# Why Do I Ask?



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

No, I'm not Sigmund Freud.

But, I do have some insight into human behavior. And, I've come to this insight the hard way - through experience.

Here's what it boils down to.

We actually have "2 brains"

Our left brain is where we logically think through things and weigh evidence.

Our right brain is where we "get things".

This explains why so many OP's come here and describe CLASSIC symptoms of infidelity - or worse - and the LS clings to the idea that this is "really" a good person, etc.

Our right brain is screaming, yes the evidence says this - BUT.... 

We don't wish to surrender our visions/delusions so easily.

So, what does the question "what was his/her childhood like" have to do with this?

For emotionally broken people, WRONG IS OFTEN SEEN AS RIGHT.

In other words, living in fear of annihilation as an infant or toddler simply is too much for the emotional centers to take - so, they "break". This is to protect the infant/toddler.

But, it makes for an adult that often times is unable to even see the amount of pain they create for others. And, often, that same person may not even think they care.

That's why I ask.

How you handle a "broken" spouse is far different than simply making yourself more attractive and manning up to romance them. Far different.


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## OutOfTheBlue (Nov 4, 2011)

Wow - You might very well be Sigmund Freud. Very insightful words.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

OutOfTheBlue said:


> Wow - You might very well be Sigmund Freud. Very insightful words.


Thanks.

At the crux of the broken emotional center is the idea that situations are "all or nothing". So - literally - one minute the broken spouse will "believe" their partner loves them and the next minute, they no longer believe it.

Look out if you are a rescuer.

Such situations quickly devolve into constant consistent emotional upset for the broken spouse and - literally - eggshells for their partner as we work to "try not to upset them".

If the broken spouse isn't happy? Guess who is to blame?

What can their partner do to to fix this situation?

Nothing. Literally, nothing.

But, one thing the non-broken spouse must do is stand up to the broken spouse. If you do not, they will steamroll you right out of your own life.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I agree Conrad. Much of the advice given in books, MC and on forums, assumes that the two people involved are basically mentally healthy. Mentally healthy people may be shaken and rattled by life events but have the mental reserves to pull themselves together given time and some work. 

The ability of seriously wounded souls to heal is limited by the presence of a small island of perserved normalcy that provides the ability to recognize their brokenness. This seems to be rare and rarer still is the determination to ganer the help they need to heal. 

I don't think methods that help SO to deal with mentally normal partners works with troubled partners. in fact it often makes things worse. The first thing to do in a troubled relationship is to determine if a SO has the mental reserves to change. If they don't then their partner needs a different kind of strategy to help them to either endure or gain the stregth to disengage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## scione (Jul 11, 2011)

I hope you are not talking about me.


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

I often wonder if I am the "broken" one... 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

A few nights ago , the husband, I & our oldest went to see a Play called "Freud's Last Session" , it was a debate between him & C S Lewis. I enjoyed Freud's dry humor & I identified with his line of thinking more so... though Lewis seemed the happier soul. 

Our mindsets can hinder everything about us, sometimes our brains have physical dysfunctions - that can be found on Brain scans, overactivity... that needs calmed with meds ..... This author studies these things , explaining the parts of the brain & how it influences our thoughts, behaviors.....one of the biggest advocates for .....A healthy brain = a healthy marraige >>>  Click HERE

But when it is about Trauma in the upbringing , I would think this is more of a coping mechanism = a mindset hang up..... Never read anything about this ..... but I would think these books are more geared for such issues.....Beyond Consequences, Logic, and Control: A Love-Based Approach to Helping Attachment-Challenged Children With Severe Behaviors... this is the type of help children need as youngsters to avoid destructive mental patterns in their adult lives. We adults tend to get set in our ways. 

 Mindsight: The New Science of Personal Transformation  This books 1st chapter is entitled " *A broken Brain, a lost soul, the triangle of well being*, *Minding the brain- the Brain in the palm of your hand.*


I stumbled upon this in my search, how about this title......  Change Your Mindset, Not Your Man: Learn to Love What's Right Instead of Trying to Fix What's Wrong

 How can you change from a fixed mindset to a growth mindset? ................. Mindset and Relationships

Sorry for all those links, I am sure you have read enough books yourself to sink a ship to in trying to overcome . 

Just wanted to say I empathize with you when you said this... ..


> How you handle a "broken" spouse is far different than simply making yourself more attractive and manning up to romance them. Far different.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Nice post. It took me years to realize I couldn't fix the "broken one". Now I'm the "broken one" from the damage. A person either has a conscience or does not have one. There is no gray area there. And it's something which can't be fixed. Lesson learned!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

scione said:


> I hope you are not talking about me.


That's for you to decide.

Seriously.

What was your childhood like?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

YinPrincess said:


> I often wonder if I am the "broken" one...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Tell me about it.

What was it like when you were young?


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

The one caveat that I would add is sometimes people blame their parents for their problems when the statute of limitations on parental crimes should run out. At some point you need to take responsibility for your issues and figure out a way to deal with them, no matter what happened to you as a child.

I had a very normal childhood, but my father was extremely dominant, and I hated how he ran our family with an iron fist. He was very alpha at work, and that bled over into our home. My submissive mother did not help things either, but a more decisive woman would not have been able to get along with him.

It wasn't until I hit the late 20's that I realized that I could not blame my lack of direction and indecisiveness on my father. It is both genetic and a rebellion against him. I had to own it, and see that he was doing the best that he could. He was not the perfect Ward Cleaver that I wanted for a father, but I was not the perfect child either.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

lovesherman said:


> The one caveat that I would add is sometimes people blame their parents for their problems when the statute of limitations on parental crimes should run out. At some point you need to take responsibility for your issues and figure out a way to deal with them, no matter what happened to you as a child.


This is easier said than done depending on the extent of the parental crime. I was so broken that I wasn't even aware that I was broken. How can I take responsibility for something I'm not even aware of?

But yes eventually I hit rock bottom and did seek help so on that I agree. I no longer blame my parents for my problems.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Mavash. said:


> This is easier said than done depending on the extent of the parental crime. I was so broken that I wasn't even aware that I was broken. How can I take responsibility for something I'm not even aware of?
> 
> But yes eventually I hit rock bottom and did seek help so on that I agree. I no longer blame my parents for my problems.


Yes, this would certainly be true of sexual abuse or disownment, as you experienced. I am commenting about normal childhoods where resentment is present, and people use it to ignore their own faults.

It is good to reflect on what made you who you are, but you need to be careful about wallowing in self-pity.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Conrad said:


> How you handle a *"broken spouse"* is far different than simply making yourself more attractive and manning up to romance them. Far different.


Conrad: Interesting to say the least! To help me get a better understanding of it however, would you please give me your definition of what a *"broken spouse"* as well as an *"unbroken spouse"* actually is, citing some prime examples. Thanks!


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

lovesherman said:


> Yes, this would certainly be true of sexual abuse or disownment, as you experienced. I am commenting about normal childhoods where resentment is present, and people use it to ignore their own faults.
> 
> It is good to reflect on what made you who you are, but you need to be careful about wallowing in self-pity.


And some therapists go this route as well. Playing the blame game and it gets you nowhere. My therapist won't let me do that. It's like yes it happened now what are YOU going to do about it now that you know you are broken?

Said with compassion of course.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

arbitrator said:


> Conrad: Interesting to say the least! To help me get a better understanding of it however, would you please give me your definition of what a *"broken spouse"* as well as an *"unbroken spouse"* actually is, citing some prime examples. Thanks!


See if you recognize any of this:

Repetitive patterns of disorganization and instability in self-image, mood, behavior and close personal relationships. 

History of stormy and unstable relationships 

Marked shifts of feelings 

Manipulating others

Difficulty with trusting others. Including pushing them away before they can hurt the broken spouse.

Equal parts lonely depression, irritability, and anxiety. 

Unpredictable and impulsive behavior which might include excessive spending, promiscuity, gambling, drug or alcohol abuse, shoplifting, overeating or physically self-damaging actions such as suicidal gestures. 

Inappropriate and intense anger or rage with temper tantrums, constant brooding and resentment

The broken partner usually believes themselves to be flawed, defective, damaged or bad in some way, with a tendency to go to extremes in thinking, feeling or behavior.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

arbitrator said:


> Conrad: Interesting to say the least! To help me get a better understanding of it however, would you please give me your definition of what a *"broken spouse"* as well as an *"unbroken spouse"* actually is, citing some prime examples. Thanks!


Its a question to Conrad but if you will allow, i would like to weight in since i used the Broken term. 

I used "broken" to describe people with mental illnesses, personality disorders, PTSD, survivors of debilitating physical traumas and chronic illnesses. 

My thinking is that the inability to respond along healthy patterns has a number of causes. 

Unbroken? Do we call people "ill and un-ill" or "fat and un-fat"?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Conrad said:


> See if you recognize any of this:
> 
> Repetitive patterns of disorganization and instability in self-image, mood, behavior and close personal relationships.
> 
> ...


Aunt Enid! You know her? :scratchhead:


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> Unbroken? Do we call people "ill and un-ill" or "fat and un-fat"?


The word is balanced. I think everyone is broken to a certain extent it's the level of it that causes problems. We all have wounds from our past. It's learning to acknowledge them and their affect on your life that makes you healthy.

Like me I have ptsd. Probably always will. I function well because I'm aware of it and I know how to manage it. To expect it to just 'go away' is unrealistic.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> The word is balanced.


I greatly like the terms "balanced" and "unbalanced" better. Thanks, all, for helping me to get a better grasp on that!


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

My childhood was awful. My family looked successful and happy to outsiders, but our home was rife with physical and verbal abuse. My mother is a narcissistic tyrant and my father did nothing to protect his children because he was afraid of her.

I never depended on my husband to heal me. I knew that had to come from within, along with outside help. I have completed a total of four years of therapy, two of them being during my engagement and marriage. My husband's love helps me a great deal, but I have done most of the work of my own volition. I understand that only I can heal myself. Besides, anything can happen to our marriage and if I depend on my husband too much, I will have nothing left if he leaves me. 

Some of the damage can never be repaired because it is too severe. I will always fear men who are the same race as the cousin who molested me and the man that raped me at age nineteen. I am so afraid to become a mother, that I chose a man who did not want children and supported his decision to get a vasectomy. My mom hated being a parent and she took that resentment out on her four kids. I have her bad temper and I don't want to take the chance of becoming an abusive parent. I have noticed that many people become their parents when they have kids. 

All of those traits described by Conrad defined me between the ages of 17-24. Leaving home was the best thing I ever did, along with finally choosing a man who appreciated who I was without trying to mold me or force me into things I didn't want to do. I finally forgive myself for allowing men to abuse me sexually and emotionally in so called "relationships."

I have learned not to share my experiences with others in my daily life. Too many people have judged me and used my past unbalanced behaviour as a reason to make fun or get me in trouble somehow. I was once kicked out of an apartment because the b!tch upstairs told my landlords that I was going to a "mental hospital", when I was really just going to have my broken arm looked at. An old friend told me that I was "damaged goods". Never again will I share my struggles with anyone who does not volunteer her bad experiences first. Most people put others down to make themselves feel better, yet they live in glass houses because they are unaware of how broken _they _truly are.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Mavash. said:


> The word is balanced. I think everyone is broken to a certain extent it's the level of it that causes problems. We all have wounds from our past. It's learning to acknowledge them and their affect on your life that makes you healthy.
> 
> Like me I have ptsd. Probably always will. I function well because I'm aware of it and I know how to manage it. To expect it to just 'go away' is unrealistic.


I think you are right Mavash. Behavior seems to be on a continuum. We are connected in a common string of human frailty and strength .


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## Gratitude (Feb 12, 2012)

Sometimes all the analysing is overwhelming. Every single one of us that walks this earth has issues from childhood in some form. We all have different personalities. The we try to link the two lives together, two well adjusted people, two broken people or a mix. Then we try to make each other happy. And parent together. 

When things go wrong, it gets confusing trying to figure out own feelings and our partners through it, why are they like this, why am I like this. Are there mental disorders going on? What can I do to help? How can I get them to change? And we all come here and offer the best advice we can from our different experiences and hope that we are able to at least help one person out in the process so they are not alone.

I decided in the last six months that I was going to let go off my past. Stop over thinking everything and be happy. But you know what, life gets in the way sometimes and issues come out, or other people in your family or friends come to you with their problems or wanting advice. Then I think do I need help? Counselling? Therapy? But then I wake up and the suns shining and life goes on. Sometimes I don't know if I'm crazy or in denial :smthumbup: All I can do everyday is the best that I can do.

Life is a journey. Sometimes I think my anxiety and OCD comes from the simple fact of having too many thoughts and not knowing what to do with them, so the physical act of cleaning forces me to stop. I don't know if any of us walking this earth are completely well adjusted, but I do know that the few of those that you meet, they seem so happy and calm. How great would that be.

Life should be about living and moving forward with what we have now and what we can fix today. We need to learn to create our own happiness and not always allow others to be in charge of it.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

First - what you describe between ages 17 - 24 is normal. Teens and young adults often go through a period of apparent PD especially with a troubled home environment. 

Some manage to mature and some don't. You worked hard to get where you are. 

I came away from my childhood with depression. I was a happy baby according to my mom. In my baby pictures I am always smiling or laughing. 

Then around 2 the smiles were gone. I often wonder what I would have been like if I grew up in a healthy family.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Iwant2bhappy said:


> I am broken and don't feel I steamrolled my spouse.


What's the story with you?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Gratitude,

>>Then we try to make each other happy. And parent together.<<

I hate to tell you, this is an assumption.

It doesn't work that way - *often. *


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Good thing I already know I'm "broken". Repairing myself is a daunting task to say the least.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

The "broken" or "unbalanced seldom ever question their state.


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## MoonHare (Jan 13, 2012)

This actually happened between me and husband. We are both children of alcoholics (though his father was far more overtly abusive than mine) but I could no longer take my husband refusing to take responsibility for his own happiness. I get that I'm not perfect, but I understand that my life is my own--when I get depressed, I seek help, therapy, meds, whatever. And I try to exercise and eat right. My STBXH though--well, he has suffered big mood swings and will still tell me that it is my fault. He has even said that I could make him happy, but I willfully choose not to. I am selfish for not meeting his demands. And in the past, when I tried to capitulate, it still didn't make him happy--and was still my fault. I can no longer be with a person that refuses to take responsibility for his life and refuses to see that he has any part in the crumbling or our marriage.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Iwant2bhappy said:


> I am broken and don't feel I steamrolled my spouse.


Broken people come in all varieties. Some steamroll, some become people pleasers, others conflict avoidants, passive aggressive, some are TOO nice, to name but a few. 

Please don't take offense to this as I'm sure none was meant.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Iwant2bhappy said:


> No offense taken.
> 
> I am a people pleaser instead of a steamroller.


My husband and I were both broken (me more than him). I was the steam roller and he's the people pleaser.

In my attempt to be 'nicer' I swung the other way and became a people pleaser. I just swapped one problem for another. LOL

I'm fixing THAT now.


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

Thanks, Catherine602. What does PD mean?

I forgive my mother because I know her intentions were good. Mom was strict and abusive because she wanted her children to turn out well. She had a very difficult life. I had to forgive her for my own sanity and happiness; I was becoming very bitter and angry which is no way to live.

I was a people pleaser, then I became an angry steamroller. Now I'd like to think I am healthy balance of the two. When I become angry with my husband, I have learned to share that in a way that is not destructive or disrespectful. This is also because my husband firmly and lovingly sets boundaries.

Even if we are broken, we can heal ourselves. It is never good to dwell on the injustices done to us as children; we will never be happy if we don't learn to let go and let God.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

PD=Personality Disorder
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> First - what you describe between ages 17 - 24 is normal. Teens and young adults often go through a period of apparent PD especially with a troubled home environment.
> 
> Some manage to mature and some don't. You worked hard to get where you are.
> 
> ...


Sorry, are you saying that my problems came from being immature and having a personality disorder?  I hope not because no matter how immature I might have been, I still never deserved the abuse. I was also never diagnosed with a PD so it is very presumptious of you to assume that.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

FirstYearDown said:


> Sorry, are you saying that my problems came from being immature and having a personality disorder?  I hope not because no matter how immature I might have been, I still never deserved the abuse. I was also never diagnosed with a PD so it is very presumptious of you to assume that.


Nowhere did Catherine state you have a personality disorder. It seems you are very quick to take offense where none was meant.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

No no First. I meant that teens have signs of PD due to immaturity. My coment was meant to say that even the severe problems resolve. I did not say that you had a PD. I meant to convey that your recovery from the bad period in your life was a result of maturity and hard work on your part. I had the feeling that you felt bad about this period. I was trying to support you by letting you know that you went through a normal phase and not to feel bad. 

I obviously got it wrong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

Pidge, you told me that PD meant "personality disorder." That is why I believed Catherine was assuming the same about me; she attached that label to my past behavior. I did not want to take offense if none was intended, which is why I _asked _for clarification. 

Catherine, thank you for explaining. I know you said that I worked hard and I appreciate that. I am glad that is over and I look forward to the third decade of my life, now that things are looking up. Severe problems can only be resolved if the sufferer is willing to take a hard look at herself and those around her. I feel ashamed of it because people harshly judge those who have mental/emotional health challenges.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

morituri said:


> The "broken" or "unbalanced seldom ever question their state.


My experience indicates they rarely do anything wrong.

They never admit wrongdoing in the moment.

AND - if they do admit wrongdoing, it's a general vague reference to the "distant past".


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

My experience is I didn't realize I was wrong due to that is how I always was. I finally entered therapy and realized I had a ton of things wrong. 

What I especially love is on my psych profile where the therapist states, "patient claims abuse and claims she had back surgery" and so on. I did not feel I was being validated as everything was just a "claim". Seriously, like I could not prove I had back surgery?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

pidge,

I appreciate your front-line testimony and lack of personalization on this topic. To discuss your own issues dispassionately is a goal many would do well to pursue.

My study indicates "unbalanced" folks often have an intense fear of harsh punishment. So, taking responsibility for hurting others gives them a bad case of the heebie-jeebies... as in a swift harsh punishment is sure to follow.

Of course, the reverse is actually true.

The people that love them often would like nothing better than to extend an olive branch of forgiveness and pledge to move forward with both partners trying better to care for each other.

This lack of recognition of bad behavior comes across as "live with it" to the partner they are hurting.

Nothing stokes resentment more surely and certainly than someone shoving pain down your throat.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

MoonHare said:


> This actually happened between me and husband. We are both children of alcoholics (though his father was far more overtly abusive than mine) but I could no longer take my husband refusing to take responsibility for his own happiness. I get that I'm not perfect, but I understand that my life is my own--when I get depressed, I seek help, therapy, meds, whatever. And I try to exercise and eat right. My STBXH though--well, he has suffered big mood swings and will still tell me that it is my fault. He has even said that I could make him happy, but I willfully choose not to. I am selfish for not meeting his demands. And in the past, when I tried to capitulate, it still didn't make him happy--and was still my fault. I can no longer be with a person that refuses to take responsibility for his life and refuses to see that he has any part in the crumbling or our marriage.


MH,

If you try to do what they say, you won't perform "correctly".

Been there - done that.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

pidge70 said:


> My experience is I didn't realize I was wrong due to that is how I always was. I finally entered therapy and realized I had a ton of things wrong.
> 
> What I especially love is on my psych profile where the therapist states, "patient claims abuse and claims she had back surgery" and so on. I did not feel I was being validated as everything was just a "claim". Seriously, like I could not prove I had back surgery?


Pidge one of my cousins has BPD. We grew up together. I broke contact with him recently because he was crazy making. I still worry about him and I wish I could help him. It was very difficult to abandon him but it was him or my family. . He is very smart but impossible to reason with or help and believe me, I tried for 10 years. I did not realize he was BPD until I read about it. The description fit him to a T. 

Your recovery amazes me. I thought that BPD were not self aware and therapeutic success is of limited success. How did you do it? Are you certain you were B? You just don't sound like a person with any B tendencies. You seem steady, assured, consistent. I can't see how you came from BPD to what you are now. 

Is there any way I can help my cousin? Can I say anything that can get through to him and motivate him to seek therapy.?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Pidge one of my cousins has BPD. We grew up together. I broke contact with him recently because he was crazy making. I still worry about him and I wish I could help him. It was very difficult to abandon him but it was him or my family. . He is very smart but impossible to reason with or help and believe me, I tried for 10 years. I did not realize he was BPD until I read about it. The description fit him to a T.
> 
> Your recovery amazes me. I thought that BPD were not self aware and therapeutic success is of limited success. How did you do it? Are you certain you were B? You just don't sound like a person with any B tendencies. You seem steady, assured, consistent. I can't see how you came from BPD to what you are now.
> 
> ...


Yes I am certain, I was diagnosed about 7yrs ago. Apparently my being "self aware" is a rare thing. I am in no way fully recovered. I will always be a work in progress. I do appreciate your kind words though.

Unfortunately there is nothing you can do to help your cousin. He has to do that on his own. The worst thing anyone can do those is enable a BPD'er. We have to be held accountable for our actions. Joe learned that the hard way with me.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

pidge70 said:


> Yes I am certain, I was diagnosed about 7yrs ago. Apparently my being "self aware" is a rare thing. I am in no way fully recovered. I will always be a work in progress. I do appreciate your kind words though.
> 
> Unfortunately there is nothing you can do to help your cousin. He has to do that on his own. The worst thing anyone can do those is enable a BPD'er. We have to be held accountable for our actions. Joe learned that the hard way with me.


Is there really any other way to learn?

You do know what an expert is, don't you?

It's someone who has made every possible mistake in a given area - and learned from them.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

I'm not sure if you're being facetious but, yes I do know what an expert is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

pidge70 said:


> I'm not sure if you're being facetious but, yes I do know what an expert is.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Have you found any more effective way of learning something than by learning the hard way?

Not joking.


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## ParkerWA (Apr 1, 2012)

I would like to throw myself in here. I am new to the forums but have been reading through everyone's comments for the past two weeks. I have not been diagnosed with something like BPD, but I do have ADHD. My stbxw was the one who recognized it. It wasn't really an issue until I got into latter part of my Engineering Curriculum. I was on medication during the school but soon after graduation discontinued using them, big mistake. My stbxw didn't really mention anything but the stress at my job and our living situation I think aggravated the condition. 

One of the things she would say is that I do not listen to her. Which in part is true, I could repeat exactly what she said but did always fully understand what she was saying, mostly cause my mind would often drift elsewhere during the conversation.

At this point, I cannot discount the possibility that I may have a PD, it have seen two therapists and one psychiatrist, the psychiatrist thinks there is a possibility I could have a mental illness because of my early childhood. This would be scary news for most but I am ready to accept any diagnosis so to that I may gain some insight and tools to handle it.


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

A person with BPD can be treated and healed _if they are willing to do the work._ It is very rare to find one that wants to take responsibility and change. The other issue is that those with any kind of mental illness can be very vulnerable, so they tend to attract those who are abusive and manipulative which can worsen the symptoms. This was my experience.

During my depressive and self destructive phase, I was with men who were very cruel, controlling and manipulative. I didn't think very highly of myself and so I attracted evil Svengali types. 

An ex from that time used to enjoy telling me I was still sick, but I know he was only trying to make himself feel better about being a loser. He lives off of his parents and the government, yet he is very opinionated about what others do. He does not even have a _high school diploma_, yet the idiot thought he knew more than my doctors who said I recovered. :rofl::rofl: The lazy twat has achieved nothing in life and it hurts this fool to see the girl he abused do better than him.

Perhaps I am not as damaged as I think; I have always been willing to take responsibility and work on myself.  This began at age 17. 

We must also try to remember that those in the medical community often refuse to treat those with BPD, so it can be difficult to obtain help.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

On the contrary First. There are vigorous efforts to come up with treatment strategies for people with intractable psychological problems. 

Much of there focus is on PD because these people seldom seek help. 

They come to the attention by virtue of their effect on their families and society. The people around them or who are injured by them seek help.

They cause a lot of collateral damage to spouses children, friends and the community. The question the medical community is dealing with is, how to get to those with PD.


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

You do not live where I do. The doctors up here are very reluctant to treat people with BPD and I know this from watching friends get turned down for that reason. I agree that they seldom seek help, however there is another side to that story as well.


http://www.healthzone.ca/health/min...-my-life-with-borderline-personality-disorder


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Thanks for the info. You are right I had no idea. Oh that is awful!

BTW the best revenge is living well - You go girl. :toast:


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

I know, right? People trying desperately to help themselves, only to be judged by _medical professionals _for being ill. Heartbreaking, especially in a country which is lauded for healthcare.

Someone from my past loved to remind me about how ill I was back then. This pansy is just upset that I am doing better than his lazy and immature ass. The best revenge is living well indeed!

I applaud anyone with PD who seeks help.


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## canguy66 (Dec 18, 2011)

I'm not sure my ex-wife qualifies as "broken", but she does fit this description of Narcissictic Personality Disorder. It is very much all about her, appearances, the romanticized notions of love and success, and perpetual pursuit of the next highs, etc. It was a very interesting read and hit the nail on the head.

When she said "it's not you it's me", I know understand how true that was. Not to say I didn't have my issues, but I worked on them through counselling, and as she even observed, that became non-issues. Still, she told me I was a great guy, a great catch, just not the guy for her. 

I'm rediscovering my self-worth and rebuilding my self-confidence (counselling, exercise, weight loss). On to better days ahead. I would not wish the pain I experiences over the past few months on anyone.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

FirstYearDown said:


> Thanks, Catherine602. What does PD mean?
> 
> I forgive my mother because I know her intentions were good. Mom was strict and abusive because she wanted her children to turn out well. She had a very difficult life. I had to forgive her for my own sanity and happiness; I was becoming very bitter and angry which is no way to live.
> 
> ...


It's great that you can forgive your mother, but by forgiving the fact that she was abusive, are you saying she didn't recognize it as abuse? IDK, sounds like she should have made accountable for her actions.

I feel for you that you went through all that.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

morituri said:


> The "broken" or "unbalanced seldom ever question their state.


This is so true, they seem to think it's everyone else that has the problem. It's quite annoying actually when it's so obvious the person has made the error, and you watch them twist it around to their benefit, and you're like WTF??


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

One thing I have noticed is that people with PD have the uncanny ability to pick a partner or child that will tolerate their abuse. 

A healthy, loving and compassionate adult partner or target child is ideal. The ideal adult has the character to honor a commitment and help a loved one. The ideal child will internalize negative projections and try to make their abuser happy. 

Adults and kids who survive relationships with abusive and PD spouses or parents, are singled out for characteristics that should have been rewarded. It's the luck of the draw for them. 

One of the most difficult things I have had to do is break from my cousin. I feel that I abandoned him in his time of need. It is very difficult to know that he still suffers. 

I know that it is due to his BPD but I also know that it was his misfortune to have had the childhood experiences that lead to his disease. 

I cannot imagine what it would take to disengage from a parent or spouse. However, I think it is the only way for a healthy person to have a life befitting their character and potential for happiness.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Thanks, Conrad for this insightful explanation.

At first, it angered me. 
I personally do not like the term "broken". 
Yes, some people can develop personality disorders such as BP caused by their environment at home. 

Trauma, abuse, all sorts of things happen to many people.
It happens to your body. Your SOUL, however, cannot be broken.
Your mind may shut itself off to avoid dealing with it, you may give in to the easy road of never being available to be hurt, but those are all coping methods.

Noboby can break your soul. Who you are, inside. You were born with a perfect soul, and it cannot be broken. Nobody can take that away.

What they DO is brainwash you into thinking you are no good, that you don't deserve better, that it is your fault. Kids are helpless to this, without a role model to point out that it's an opinion, and not true. 

I cannot even tell you how I felt when it clicked for me one day that NO I was NOT broken.... my soul is still there, it's just fine, I just had to dust off the crap that was piled on it and put it in the past. The past. Where it belonged. It was clouding my life over like a lens. 

No, I don't like the term broken. Personality disorders are a way for the brain to process what has happened. The soul is just fine. The brain has just decide to believe the crap it has heard.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

deejov said:


> Thanks, Conrad for this insightful explanation.
> 
> At first, it angered me.
> I personally do not like the term "broken".
> ...


Nicely put!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cabbage65 (Feb 14, 2012)

Conrad said:


> If the broken spouse isn't happy? Guess who is to blame?
> What can their partner do to to fix this situation?
> Nothing. Literally, nothing.


boy if that ain't the truth...


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## cabbage65 (Feb 14, 2012)

Conrad said:


> My experience indicates they rarely do anything wrong.
> 
> They never admit wrongdoing in the moment.
> 
> AND - if they do admit wrongdoing, it's a general vague reference to the "distant past".


you describe h to a T

his parents never showed him love, very business-like, the "sports and weather people" i like to call them...no conversation dips into the emotional (although irritability is 'safe' for some reason)

h was a star ball player in school, they never once went to a game, father was a workaholic and basically never spoke much to them or even disciplined them. he never ate dinner with them. mother never made excuses, it was just to be accepted.

it explains a lot.


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