# Accepting the apology you never received.



## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

*Forgiveness*
Last Friday I sat down with an old friend, pastor, and mentor. The single most difficult word I walked away with was "forgiveness."

Forgiveness used to be such an easy thing for me. Looking back I cannot think of anything I've held onto from other relationships, and I've had many toxic endings. Yet this last one, I honestly don't see ever getting to that point.

For the last year I've been milling over the same hurts. I've tried to understand it, I can't. I've tried to ignore it, it triggers. I've tried to minimalize it, its just too much.

One thing I do understand is this is going to take some time, and I have yet to finalize the divorce process. Even so, I think I am going in the wrong direction moving past the pain, becoming more confused, and isolating myself because, frankly, am not a joy to be around.

At this stage, what am I missing?

If you have gone through divorce, did you return to the same person you were?


----------



## Quigster (Aug 1, 2015)

gouge_away said:


> If you have gone through divorce, did you return to the same person you were?


The only constant in life is change. Nobody ever goes back to being the exact same person they used to be. All you can do is learn from the situation, adapt your behavior if necessary, and hope you don't make the same mistakes again.


Quigster


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

gouge_away said:


> *Forgiveness*
> Last Friday I sat down with an old friend, pastor, and mentor. The single most difficult word I walked away with was "forgiveness."
> 
> Forgiveness used to be such an easy thing for me. Looking back I cannot think of anything I've held onto from other relationships, and I've had many toxic endings. Yet this last one, I honestly don't see ever getting to that point.
> ...


*Arbitrator is still basically the same person that he always was ~ he has prayed to the Heavenly Father countless times about all of the misfortunes that have occurred to him in his married life and has summarily forgiven both of his wayward spouses for their acts of covert betrayal against him! Forgiving itself is quite easy, because without being able to forgive others, how can we expect others, and most notably God to forgive us of our sins? Where we, as the infallible humans that we are, differ with God, is that when the sin is forgiven, He not only forgives, but simply "forgets."

Unlike God, we as humans in a downfallen, imperfect world, should always endeavor to remember exactly what it was that happened to us, to keep us on track from repeating over and over those same miseries and misfortunes that we have heretofore suffered in the past!

If the perpetrators of sin have hidden their sins and have never sought forgiveness for it from both God as well as the aggrieved and then atoned for it, then in time, they will be compelled to confess their sins before Him as well as their aggrieved ones before they can be made whole before Him!

And as the frail human mortal that I am, I often find myself so very aversive and untrusting of wanting to put a foot forward in reclaiming a married loving relationship with another woman out of sheer fear that what has twice befallen me before, might come to rear it's ugly head again, and that's something that I absolutely don't want to ever go through again!

In this lifetime, or any other!
*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

Its is my sin that brought me into marriage, and subsequently divorce.

I ignored God, my son, and family. I became quite the hedonist, and rushed into marriage.

Now I've become the fault finder, and its holding me from being forgiven.

I don't remember this ever being who I was.

Your exactly right @arbitrator!
This is between me and my Creator, not me and my stbxw, or God and her. This is just about me and God.

Thank you!


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Maybe because I refuse to forgive is the reason why I no longer practice Christianity. Something I need to dwell a bit on.


----------



## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

Quigster said:


> All you can do is learn from the situation, adapt your behavior if necessary, and hope you don't make the same mistakes again.


Gold


----------



## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I'm not the person I was before divorce and I know that person will never return. In fact, I don't want that person to return... She was less mature, more ignorant, and a pushover, however blissful she may have been as well. 

Now I'm more confident, have a spine, know what I want, live in reality, and don't accept people trying to get away with mistreating me. I actually learned many valuable lessons from my divorce.


----------



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

gouge_away said:


> Its is my sin that brought me into marriage, and subsequently divorce.
> 
> I ignored God, my son, and family. I became quite the hedonist, and rushed into marriage.
> 
> ...


Not sure what you mean by the bolded part. Forgiven by whom? Yourself? (Or did you mean "forgiving?")

There was another thread about forgiveness the other day, not sure if you saw it. Someone recommended the book Radical Forgiveness and said it's very good. I ordered it (hasn't arrived yet).


----------



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Forgiveness is something I have pondered for months now. Like you I have chewed it over but can't seem to swallow the idea of doing it. I have migrated from the need to forgive her, to the need to forgive myself and now to the point of thinking that forgiveness is when you realize there is never really anything to forgive. Each of us is simply doing our best to find happiness. Even the adulterer, the cheater, the liar, the WAS - all of them are acting in what they consider to be their own best interests. Those efforts may be very hurtful to us, but only because those actions do not comply with our expectations. The hurt is what we often times feel the need to forgive. Sometimes, in our own pursuit of happiness, we allow our expectations to overshadow reality. I truly think that the highest form of forgiveness is learning the lesson from the hurt and growing past the pain. I am struggling with this as we speak. I may be far off the mark in thinking this way. Lord knows I have explored many dead ends along my path of recovery.


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Maybe because I refuse to forgive is the reason why I no longer practice Christianity. Something I need to dwell a bit on.


*While it is certainly ascertainable that you have felt that you left God, or that perhaps God left you, the latter did not happen. Far from it! As a child of his creation, He is there with you on a 24/7 basis lovingly watching over you, but pretty much remaining silent! Much like the "parable of the prodigal son," He awaits a homecoming greatly in the form of a rekindled relationship with Him! Once that has occurred is when He truly speaks into your awaiting heart!

The foremost illustration that I can offer up is from the beloved poem,  Footprints in the Sand. In walking with our Heavenly Father along the sandy seashore, we as mere mortals expect to see two sets of footprints in the sand. But in our weaker conditions, when either we have turned from God, or mistakenly think that he has turned from us, is when we visualize only one set of footprints there, causing us to question, "Lord, if I were truly with you, why then were there not two sets of footprints?"

His most loving and smiling reply was, "You were there, my child! But in your weakened condition, that was when I lifted and carried you!"

We are all here for that purpose! Whether it is to have a friendly or an arbitrary ear to hear our problems, help mete out an answer or a solution to it, albeit often temporary, or to perhaps even find or to rekindle the love of God in such an unloving world!

If I can be of assistance to anyone in that latter endeavor, all that you have to do is ask ~ just as we all as for help in our personal problems! Surprising to say that God is not really all that hard to find at all!

And most preeminently, it is usually accomplished through conversent interaction with each other!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

arbitrator said:


> *While it is certainly ascertainable that you have felt that you left God, or that perhaps God left you, the latter did not happen. Far from it! As a child of his creation, He is there with you on a 24/7 basis lovingly watching over you, but pretty much remaining silent! Much like the "parable of the prodigal son," He awaits a homecoming greatly in the form of a rekindled relationship with Him! Once that has occurred is when He truly speaks into your awaiting heart!
> 
> The foremost illustration that I can offer up is from the beloved poem,  Footprints in the Sand. In walking with our Heavenly Father along the sandy seashore, we as mere mortals expect to see two sets of footprints in the sand. But in our weaker conditions, when either we have turned from God, or mistakenly think that he has turned from us, is when we visualize only one set of footprints there, causing us to question, "Lord, if I were truly with you, why then were there not two sets of footprints?"
> 
> ...



That was my dad's favorite poem . I had forgotten about it. Good reminder for ME (even though this is not my thread!) after a really tough weekend!


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

SecondTime'Round said:


> That was my dad's favorite poem . I had forgotten about it. Good reminder for ME (even though this is not my thread!) after a really tough weekend!


*We Methodist's think that it's a pretty special poem as well!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Gouge, my take on forgiveness is that is just as much (or more so) for you as your partner. Forgiving allows you to let go of the pain they caused and move on with your life. I'm ready to forgive my STBXWW because I won't give her power over me, my happiness, or my life. She's just not worth it. 

For your other question: my divorce is almost done and I don't want to be the same person I was before. Instead, I want to use this experience as an opportunity to learn about myself, improve, and be a better person.


----------



## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

SecondTime'Round said:


> Not sure what you mean by the bolded part. Forgiven by whom? Yourself? (Or did you mean "forgiving?")
> 
> There was another thread about forgiveness the other day, not sure if you saw it. Someone recommended the book Radical Forgiveness and said it's very good. I ordered it (hasn't arrived yet).


Thanks STA! Ordered the book, I've actually heard mention of Radical Forgiveness, through sermons and also here on the board.


----------



## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

The most difficult person to forgive is you. Once you accomplish that, the rest is easy.

Why did you "rush into marriage"?

Were you hiding something? Was it an affair partner?


----------



## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

My experience is that while you are pushing yourself and beating yourself up, you will find it hard to make any progress.

Take it easy. Don't put so much pressure on yourself. If you are angry, don't stop it, be angry. If you are sad, be sad. If you are disappointed in yourself, be disappointed.

You don't need to be happy and normal and forgive right now.

Let your emotions just BE and let your subconscious do the healing. 

It will take time and you don't need any more stress than you already have. Give yourself time and space.

When you are ready to forgive, you will know.


----------



## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

ReturntoZero said:


> The most difficult person to forgive is you. Once you accomplish that, the rest is easy.
> 
> Why did you "rush into marriage"?
> 
> Were you hiding something? Was it an affair partner?


I don't know why I rushed... Child baring age, wanting a family, wanting to save her, thinking she would love me for it.

No, I never had an affair partner, and didn't hide anything. I was PA, judgmental, condescending, and resentful... I should have exited long before I did, and by staying the above caused more damage.


----------



## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

Oh OK, that makes sense.
Don't beat yourself up.
At least you've lived.
More than some people do.
Now learn from it.


----------



## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

I feel guilty for always finding fault in her. I know I am equally responsible for the demise.

I'm going about it [email protected],
If I can forgive myself, there is no reason to hold anything against her. That's what I am going to focus on.


----------



## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

What was your age when you were married? How long did you know her before M?


----------



## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

I was 31 she was 42 when we married. We dated for 6 months, and lived apart until the marriage.

After 16 months of marriage I was living between 2 households.
4 months later I moved completely out.
I filed for divorce a month after moving out.


----------

