# Husbands low income



## tearycloud

Me and my husband live in a high cost of living area, a place where it's normal to pay $1700 a month for a 1 bedroom apartment because this is pretty much where we could find jobs. The problem is that my husband has only been making in the low $30k range for the past two years. I make a lot more money than he does.

After we pay all of our bills there is very little left thanks to our daughters high daycare and high rental costs. We have gone over our budget a million times even met with a financial counselor who said the best thing for us to do is to increase my husband's income :scratchhead:

My husband admits he was lazy with his career and jobs in his early 20s (he jumped around a lot) and he had lacking ambition. He's tried to kick it up now that he is 30, but he has a psychology degree which is terrible in this economy. He's always struggled financially, after we got engaged I found out he had 15k in credit card debt. He paid it off and racked up another $5k a few years later. And he has literally has $0 in retirement savings. I thought things would be okay because at least he had a degree.

But now his financial situation really bothers me a lot. I know it sounds superficial but I really feel like I rather have a spouse who has the potential to make more income and live a more stable life. I had hoped to be a SAHM mom one day or have another child, but I feel like I have to put both these things on hold because my husband really can't support us and another child would just make things worse.

How do I cope with this situation?


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## Maneo

Can you live a little further from work and pay less for housing?

Can your husband get additional schooling/ training to improve his income making ability ?

Is he actively looking for better paying jobs?

Are you suggesting you may consider divorce because of his salary? If so, how is the marriage otherwise?


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## mablenc

Could it be that you are worried that he shows no ambition?
Also, the economy is tough I really think that the days of SAHM are long gone unless you marry a rich man. More households have two working spouses. Did he agree that you would be a SAHM when you got married? Have you considered moving to a different area?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SouthernMiss

Did you think he would be ambitious when you married him?

You can't change someone's career motivations. If he isn't career oriented..."success" oriented...he probably never will be.

You don't marry a man for his paycheck. If he's working every day, and he's contributing to his family financially...then it is what it is.

That's how I see it. I know you are frustrated, and I am not meaning to belittle that. But he's your husband...not a paycheck...and I think you should focus on building your financial resources as a team instead of looking at him to provide for you so you can be a SAHM. I was a SAHM for years, so again...I don't mean to be critical of that. 

It simply seems you married the wrong man if you wanted that SAHM lifestyle. But you're married, so you accept what is. And you do your best to make the finances work as they are.

The best way to cope is learning to accept him as he is and appreciating what he DOES provide. And not asking him to change who he is. Look at his positive attributes and all he DOES do...focus on that. And accept him for who he is. And for who he is not. That is love. And love isn't easy. But it IS rewarding. Focus on what's good. Love him for that.

Always, always look at finances as team work. Best wishes!


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## EleGirl

You married a man who makes $30K a year, had a child with him.. and now you want to trade him in for someone who makes more? Or change him into something he was not.

Is he a good husband otherwise? Is he a good father? If you divorce him, you might acutally end up paying him child support as you make more than him. The best solution might be to make this marriage work.

Does he work full time right now? 

There are things you can both look at.

You can look for a good job in a market that has lower rent costs. Then move there and he can find a job there.

Does he continue to job hunt for a better paying job? He should keep doing this until he moves into an income bracket that does more to help your family income.

He could go back to school to get a skill that pays better. 

Don't know what to tell you as this is who you married. without his 30K a year, could you afford to live where you do? How about if you have to pay him child support?


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## tearycloud

I already live an hour from my job moving out further isn't an option. I would love to move somewhere cheaper but it's hard to get him on board. If we moved somewhere else he claims he would probably just be unemployed because we live in one of the best job markets supposedly right now.

When we married he was actually making in the upper 40s. We married a 25 so that was a decent income for his age I felt and I made a similar amount myself. He had told me he was going to purse his Ph.D which is a must in his field, but never did. 

He has been thinking of getting a masters which would cost about 40k but I am scared of this because what if he takes out all these loans and it doesn't materialize in anything. He already got one masters in something very generic, ended up with a bunch of student loan debt and only being able to get low paying jobs.

He does work full time and he is a good father and helps out a lot. Does pretty much all of the cooking.

I just feel that we are getting older and I'm fearful of my future life with him. I want more kids but we really cannot afford them. Sometimes I have wanted to pursue other things but would have had to take a pay cut most likely to do an entry level job and we can barely survive with where we are. Not to mention, we have had times where we entered a store and our debit card has been declined, which is sooo embarrassing. 

I just feel like I worked hard in my career and honestly if I had it to do over I would never marry a man working in a social work type field. We met in college and honestly at the time I wasn't thinking of money, as I've gotten older I realize that money is more important that I used to think. 

The downside is that my feelings are ruining my marriage. I know I talk very disrespectfully to my husband and he is a good man but I feel like the money problems have made me want to be done with him. A lot of times I don't even want to have sex with him because the resentment has really built up.


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## mupostori

has he considered a career in HR


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## Mavash.

Low wages + no ambition + laziness + high cost of living = bad for me. I NEED financial security which means he can support us modestly and has plans for our retirement.

People who say money doesn't matter haven't had their debit card declined. Money absolutely matters. 

Your options are few. Either you lower expenses (move somewhere cheaper), he makes more income, you decide this is a deal breaker or you accept your lot in life.


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## anonim

If you're considering leaving/divorcing a full time working father because he 'doesn't earn enough' then you wanted a paycheck, not a husband. Increase YOUR wages instead. 

When you say you wanted to be a SAHM, what that means is that you want him to support you instead of you supporting yourself.


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## Thundarr

Well Teary, I've seen opposing views that both make sense to me so here's what I think is the difference maker.

Do you feel like your husband pulled a bait and switch or have you just changed your mind regarding what you want? For example if you anticipated your husband's salary and was naive to the fact that you'd get tired of it then I think you stick it out. On the other hand if your husband projected that he was going to be kicking corporate arse and pulling down lots of money then he's not living up to the agreement that you guys entered by saying "I do".

For better or worse only applies when there's no deception.


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## Mavash.

Thundarr said:


> Well Teary, I've seen opposing views that both make sense to me so here's what I think is the difference maker.
> 
> Do you feel like your husband pulled a bait and switch or have you just changed your mind regarding what you want? For example if you anticipated your husband's salary and was naive to the fact that you'd get tired of it then I think you stick it out. On the other hand if your husband projected that he was going to be kicking corporate arse and pulling down lots of money then he's not living up to the agreement that you guys entered by saying "I do".
> 
> For better or worse only applies when there's no deception.


He made more money a lot more and said he was ambitious. Was going to finish his phd and be fabulous.

It was a bait and switch because he did no such thing. He got lazy and that's where her resentment is coming from.

He also neglected to disclose his debt and bad financial position.


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## Stonewall

1700 for 1 bedroom. Holy bat**** robin! You can rent a 3 bedroom house here for 500-600 bucks.


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## Jasel

That sucks. I got a pysch degree in 07. Even when I was finishing out my last semester I knew that degree was going to get me nowhere unless I got a Master's or Ph.D. Which I had absolutely no interest in doing.

Went into nursing for the job security and options. Wish I had done that before getting the psych degree but already having a degree helped somewhat. I never actually wanted to BE a nurse, I just wanted to go into a field where I wouldn't really have to worry about getting a job or be unemployed for months or years if I lost one. It's hard work though and you have to be motivated to get through it (school AND nursing).

You should probably sit down with him, tell him how you really feel if you haven't, and maybe talk about him getting into a career field. Could be health care, something in computers/IT, etc. Maybe look at industries with growing career opportunities and finding something he might be interested in.

The only thing I would caution is if he DOES go back to school, which if he's 30 he should, look at private AND public schools and try to find out how graduates of those programs do when it comes to finding jobs and if they offer assistance with finding employment.

But ya you need to decide what you both want and set some timelines.


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## Mavash.

Stonewall said:


> 1700 for 1 bedroom. Holy bat**** robin! You can rent a 3 bedroom house here for 500-600 bucks.


Here a nice spacious 3 bedroom apartment in the best school district runs 1,000.

It's cheaper to buy now with the mortgage rates so low and with all the foreclosures.

I'm in a nice 4 bedroom house with a 40 foot in ground pool for $1,080 a month.


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## Coffee Amore

Money does matter. We can't live on love alone. It's not shallow to want a spouse who brings in their fair share of the income. Financial security is a valid emotional need according to Dr. Harley (His Needs, Her Needs). Financial security doesn't mean having so much that you can buy whatever you see at the store. The amount of money needed to meet that emotional need will vary by couple. You obviously have some mental idea of how much money is needed for you to feel more secure in the marriage. That's why you're feeling so frustrated and resentful of him because that expectation isn't being met. I know you said you went to a financial counselor but have you laid everything on the table for him as to how his salary is affecting the marriage? I think you need to be very honest with him the way you have with us.



Stonewall said:


> 1700 for 1 bedroom. Holy bat**** robin! You can rent a 3 bedroom house here for 500-600 bucks.


I wonder if the OP lives where I do. The rent she quoted is about right for my area. You can't even rent a 2-bedroom apt here for $500! It would at least be $1,000. But on the flip side, there are many great things about my area as well.


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## unbelievable

Even with a Masters, a psychology degree doesn't pay that well. If he likes talking to people and finds them intriguing, he might consider a job in law enforcement. He won't be rich but he'll earn $45-50K and probably have loads of overtime opportunities. It's not a particularly labor-intensive job and those who aren't particularly ambitious aren't politically threatening and actually find greater job security. If I lived in an area where average rent was $1700 and I could only earn $30K, I'd move to a less expensive area, get myself a decent paying career, and drive on from there. Ideally, a man gets his career on track and then starts a family. Your's put the cart before the horse, but it's not a fatal mistake. He'll just have to man-up and take care of business. He might have to work a job he doesn't like or work two.


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## ReformedHubby

This is a tough one. I do think your husband has potential to earn more, but I also think your expectations for him may be out of whack. Based on the field he chose I really don't think that earning a lot was ever really his goal. From the looks of it he wanted to chose a field that he would enjoy. I agree with the posters that advised you to look at him for what he can provide, not for what he can't. Speaking from experience you really can't have it all. If your man is focused on earning he won't be able to help out as much at home. While I don't think its fair that you are judging him for his earning potential, at least you are being honest about it. This way he can decide to do something about it if he wants to. I never would recommend divorce. You should keep in mind that a man who is focused on bringing home the bacon to set you up as a SAHM will most likely have a completely different personality. Are you prepared to deal with that?


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## whatslovegottodowithit?

If your H won the lottery, would you still stay with him? If he made 10X more than you, would he feel the way you do? Does he know how much more he must make before you stop resenting him and denying him sex? How much debt is he allowed to have? How much debt is he allowed to have if he doubles his salary? 

Present him with the questions and your answers...if anything, it will be more of an eye-opener vs. a financial planner telling you both to increase income or decrease expenses as that route hasn't worked.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unbelievable

Children do what they like to do. A man does what is necessary. I might be content to live in a box under an interstate overpass, but when I get married and make kids, I will have chosen to either raise my earning potential per hour or increase the number of hours I must work. That's just the way it is. Playing the sulky 12 year old is no longer an option for a husband and a father. Waiting for the Career God to come down and bless me with a great paying gig won't work, either. Something is worth only what it is worth. If this guy's labor is worth $10 an hour, he needs to find a job that few people can do or that few people are willing to do. If a person has kids but no specialized job skills, he has created a problem. He might have to do some nasty work, some dangerous work, work strange shifts or travel. If he can't or won't step up to the plate, wife might have to be the primary breadwinner and let him be Mr. Mom. If she has over average intelligence, a two year nursing degree is about the best investment I can think of. My daughter's husband left her and she was left with nothing and two kids. She invested two years in nursing school and now she's earning more than I do with a Master's and 31 years of experience. It was the best move she ever made. Her ex pays no child support and rarely even works. It doesn't matter. She can take care of business very nicely just on her own salary. She could move anywhere on the planet and get a nursing job. That's real security.


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## ReformedHubby

unbelievable said:


> Children do what they like to do. A man does what is necessary. I might be content to live in a box under an interstate overpass, but when I get married and make kids, I will have chosen to either raise my earning potential per hour or increase the number of hours I must work. That's just the way it is. Playing the sulky 12 year old is no longer an option for a husband and a father. Waiting for the Career God to come down and bless me with a great paying gig won't work, either. Something is worth only what it is worth. If this guy's labor is worth $10 an hour, he needs to find a job that few people can do or that few people are willing to do. If a person has kids but no specialized job skills, he has created a problem. He might have to do some nasty work, some dangerous work, work strange shifts or travel. If he can't or won't step up to the plate, wife might have to be the primary breadwinner and let him be Mr. Mom. If she has over average intelligence, a two year nursing degree is about the best investment I can think of. My daughter's husband left her and she was left with nothing and two kids. She invested two years in nursing school and now she's earning more than I do with a Master's and 31 years of experience. It was the best move she ever made. Her ex pays no child support and rarely even works. It doesn't matter. She can take care of business very nicely just on her own salary. She could move anywhere on the planet and get a nursing job. That's real security.


This is how you and I were raised but not all marriages work this way. I do think he can find a more lucrative profession, but I'm not so sure its fair that this is what she expects of him. Its not like he was wealthy when they met. I think the primary issue here is that she wants to be a SAHM. If this is what she wants it might take a while for him to raise his income level based on where he is now. She should just be honest with him, However, be prepared for his reaction, he might flip out. Also, if she really loves him, is trading that really worth a guy that makes six figures?


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## Thundarr

tearycloud said:


> *When we married he was actually making in the upper 40s*. We married a 25 so that was a decent income for his age I felt and I made a similar amount myself. He had *told me he was going to purse his Ph.D which is a must in his field, but never did.*
> 
> ....
> 
> I want more kids but we really cannot afford them. Sometimes I have wanted to pursue other things but would have had to take a pay cut most likely to do an entry level job and we can barely survive with where we are. Not to mention, we have had times where we entered a store and our debit card has been declined, which is sooo embarrassing.
> 
> I just feel like I worked hard in my career and honestly if I had it to do over I would never marry a man working in a social work type field. We met in college and honestly at the time I wasn't thinking of money, as I've gotten older I realize that money is more important that I used to think.
> 
> The downside is that my feelings are ruining my marriage. I know I talk very disrespectfully to my husband and he is a good man but I feel like the money problems have made me want to be done with him. A lot of times I don't even want to have sex with him because the resentment has really built up.


Funny how actually doing what he said he would to begin with would have prevented this problem to begin with. It's normal to want a man who can provide. It's in your DNA so to speak. Now the double standard police will try to shun you into PC correctness about how unfair it is but the majority are probably men who can't provide for their families which makes the opinion insignificant somewhat.

Hind sight is 20/20 and now there's a feeling of bait and switch since he's making less money now than when you met him and he didn't get his PHD as he boasted he would. That means he's not holding up his end of the deal and it makes you resentful. Especially since your clock is running out day by day regarding child bearing. You guys may be able to work this out but theres a strong possibility that you won't. 

It's another case of laziness biting someone in the butt. Men get so offended at this just as women get so offended that there weight often matters to men. Normally it's men and women who fail to meet these needs to cry about the double standard.


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## krismimo

You have a right to feel how you feel however you married someone knowing he was making a modest income not anticipating that it could change. In all honesty I think you shouldn't get married period. I say this because your views and conduct are misguided only when it is beneficial that is not marriage. For example what would you have done if your husband made 50 plus a year then he lost his job or got laid off? I get a sense you will act the same way this was not in your plans and you feel slighted. If you can not deal with the for better or worse in the vows then you need to walk away. 

You were screwed from the start your husband took on degrees that were not really sufficient in the struggling economy. And at the time you married him before you had the child and long before you got married money was not all that important then. Now that your married you see things differently you see money as being an important factor in your marriage.

The problem is your married into it you accepted him for who he was.And that is also including the debt he incurred people change, peoples views change, and when they do it can be ugly. 

In order for this to work you need to have a true honest conversation with him. Tell him how you feel, you need to let him know what is going on. He deserves to know how you feel you married him he is still your husband you can't get angry at him all of a sudden because life is not what you expected you joined his life willingly as well. If he is not willing to change the status of income then you need to make a decision. And if you chose to divorce him and you want to marry again then chose more carefully in your second marriage.


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## Thundarr

krismimo,
I would have your same view accept some of what TC stated in a comment which contradicts an assumption in your comment I think. Primarily that he did mis-represent him self by not only earning more but also saying he was getting PHD (bait & switch)

- he made 40k when they married and now makes 30k.
- he said he was getting his PHD but he did not.
- he admits to being lazy regarding his career.


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## turnera

You might be better off taking this up in front of a marriage counselor.


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## unbelievable

When they first met, they didn't have children. There are two adults in this equation. One of them can get pregnant. That means the other adult needs to be prepared to financially support his family on his own, should the need arise.


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## Wiltshireman

I know that in the UK the closer you want to live to certral London the higher the property rentals but on the upside big cities tend to have effective public transport so moving a few miles further out can save you lots of money without to much increased travel time.

I would have thought that New York would have been the most expensive city in the US and even there if you are prepared to more half a hour out of the city you could rent a 3 bed unit for the same sort of money you say you are paying for a 1 bed.

I do not know what the situation in your city is like for Social housing but is that something you would concider.


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## whatslovegottodowithit?

Wiltshireman said:


> I know that in the UK the closer you want to live to certral London the higher the property rentals but on the upside big cities tend to have effective public transport so moving a few miles further out can save you lots of money without to much increased travel time.
> 
> I would have thought that New York would have been the most expensive city in the US and even there if you are prepared to more half a hour out of the city you could rent a 3 bed unit for the same sort of money you say you are paying for a 1 bed.
> 
> I do not know what the situation in your city is like for Social housing but is that something you would concider.


Good point...GREAT point!!!

I never considered that they could "tighten the belt" so to speak. Do you have cable? Expensive cell plans? Home phone? Internet? Dine out? High car payments? If you have expenses you can't deduct for work, perhaps cut those? We all would like to live where we want, but often can't.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tearycloud

Wiltshireman said:


> I know that in the UK the closer you want to live to certral London the higher the property rentals but on the upside big cities tend to have effective public transport so moving a few miles further out can save you lots of money without to much increased travel time.
> 
> I would have thought that New York would have been the most expensive city in the US and even there if you are prepared to more half a hour out of the city you could rent a 3 bed unit for the same sort of money you say you are paying for a 1 bed.
> 
> I do not know what the situation in your city is like for Social housing but is that something you would concider.


We don't live in the city and live an hour away from my job so no I will not be moving any further out. By the time you add in $3.60 for gas I'll be losing more money than I'll be saving.

I was giving $1700 as an idea of the cost of living. We already live in a three bedroom also. The rental market is very tight here, we had quite a time finding where we live at now.


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## tearycloud

whatslovegottodowithit? said:


> Good point...GREAT point!!!
> 
> I never considered that they could "tighten the belt" so to speak. Do you have cable? Expensive cell plans? Home phone? Internet? Dine out? High car payments? If you have expenses you can't deduct for work, perhaps cut those? We all would like to live where we want, but often can't.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


As I said before we already met with a financial couselor and he went through our budget thoroughly. Everything that could be cut has been. We even paid our cars off. My DH just needs to make more money. 

Trust me I don't want to live here. I only do so because of our jobs.


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## Thundarr

whatslovegottodowithit? said:


> Good point...GREAT point!!!
> 
> I never considered that they could "tighten the belt" so to speak. Do you have cable? Expensive cell plans? Home phone? Internet? Dine out? High car payments? If you have expenses you can't deduct for work, perhaps cut those? We all would like to live where we want, but often can't.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


teary's problem is not whether they can make their income's work or not. She's resentful that he didn't live up to expectations, his or hers. He falsely presented himself and admittedly was lazy.


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## Viseral

Hypergamy: the biologically driven instinct of females to marry men of higher status.

You're instinctually not attracted to your husband because you're hypergamous and he earns less money than you.

I live in an area where rent for a 700 sq ft 1 bedroom apartment goes for $1700/mo. However, there are high paying jobs here and lots of opportunity.

Has your husband considered opening a small business?

The doggy daycare down the street from me generated 2 million dollars in revenue last year.


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## PreRaphaelite

Machiavelli would have a field day with this one!

Your husband needs to meet with a very experienced and qualified career specialist and then decide what opportunities there are, whether it's going back to school for a bit or trying a change of profession. Rather than faulting him, why don't you support him, encourage him and show that you care that he does well for the both of you?

Meanwhile, I have say that your marriage sounds like it's on very shaky ground. You resent your husband for "not living up to your expectations" and that probably makes him feel about as motivated as an elephant in the desert without water. And like it or not, the expectations are all centered around money. What does that tell him? If he were a hot-shot business exec pulling down a high 6-figure salary, you'd be completely and utterly in love with him. . . .for what he is, of course. 

I sense a vicious spiral already in progress.


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## FourtyPlus

Mavash. said:


> Low wages + no ambition + laziness + high cost of living = bad for me. I NEED financial security which means he can support us modestly and has plans for our retirement.
> 
> People who say money doesn't matter haven't had their debit card declined. Money absolutely matters.
> 
> Your options are few. Either you lower expenses (move somewhere cheaper), he makes more income, you decide this is a deal breaker or you accept your lot in life.



I had my debit card declined, cell phone turned off, car insurance canceled, home foreclosed on. Money still doesn't matter. I used to be a SAHM, we owned a pool home, 3 vehicles, a nice travel trailer, spent thousands on Christmas gifts, never thought twice about eating steak on a Wednesday, we vacationed at least once a year, my jewelry box is filled to the brim. My husband was never home though and when he was, his mind was still at work. I wasn't happy at all. When his business failed, we ended up losing everything. 

We now work together, we barely make ends meet but there isn't a day where I don't go to bed thanking God for my Blessings and I have plenty! I would not be willing to go back to living the high life because now I live the good life!

I can't define quality of life with a Dollar amount.


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## Anonymous07

Are there not job opportunities in other areas where housing is less expensive? 

I live in an area where housing is very expensive, but there are always ways to get around that. I live in a high end city, but we found an apartment where the rent was much cheaper compared to all of the places around us. We're looking at buying a house and we can't afford to live in our current area, so we'll move inland to a more affordable area. Both my husband and I will find a job where ever we can. 

Honestly, I think it's sad that you no longer want to be with your husband because of money issues. My husband does not make that much and we are expecting our first child while living in a one bedroom apartment. Money is going to be tight, but I would never look down on my husband for not making more money. I've had my debit card declined at stores and we've struggled here and there, but money does not equal happiness. If you look at the happiest people in the world, most of them are from developing countries. They are not worried about keeping up with the Jones' and count their blessings for what they have. They say if you want to feel rich, count all of the things you have that money can't buy.


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## Blue Firefly

tearycloud said:


> Me and my husband live in a high cost of living area, a place where it's normal to pay $1700 a month for a 1 bedroom apartment because this is pretty much where we could find jobs.


You should be looking to move to another part of the country where the cost of living is lower. Since you are the only one working at the moment, it makes it simpler, as only one of you will need to find a new job to make the move possible.

Texas, for example, has a low cost of living and the economy is doing well. 



> The problem is that my husband has only been making in the low $30k range for the past two years.


That's about $15 an hour. If you landed a job in Texas (where the economy is doing well) you husband probably have little trouble finding a job making at least that much fairly quickly.



> I make a lot more money than he does.


Define a lot more. We need a number.

Also, you chose to marry a guy that majored in an area that has historically paid little. Even if he had managed to get his doctorate, the odds are that he wouldn't make much money. What the hell ever made you think psychology grads made good money? 



> We have gone over our budget a million times even met with a financial counselor who said the best thing for us to do is to increase my husband's income.


Or move to an area with a lower cost of living.



> I thought things would be okay because at least he had a degree.


Unfortunately, a degree in psychology is worth about as much in the job market as one in underwater basket weaving. The good news is that once you get some experience in a field, companies rarely care what your degree was in (the just care that you have a degree in something). Who is most likely to get hired as a manager: they guy with a basket-weaving degree and 10 years of management experience, or the guy with the management degree but zero years of actual experience? Dr. basket-weaving has the edge.

Unfortunately, your husband will have to get the experience the hard way--probably by working his way up from the bottom.

Your husband needs to find a field he can get into, gain some experience, and work his way up through the corporate ladder. Someone mentioned HR (which unfortunately, is another historically underpaid field). He might also look at nursing (there is a nurse shortage, so the starting pay is good; he should be able to finish the courses quickly; his degree will actually be a plus in this field; and it would offer him a chance to work up through the ranks into management at a hospital).

"What Color is Your Parachute" is still the best job hunting guide.


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## Thundarr

Anonymous07 said:


> Are there not job opportunities in other areas where housing is less expensive?
> 
> I live in an area where housing is very expensive, but there are always ways to get around that. I live in a high end city, but we found an apartment where the rent was much cheaper compared to all of the places around us. We're looking at buying a house and we can't afford to live in our current area, so we'll move inland to a more affordable area. Both my husband and I will find a job where ever we can.
> 
> Honestly, I think it's sad that you no longer want to be with your husband because of money issues.


Money is a symptom not the issue. Her being unhappy is another symptom. Her being unhappy and him not making much money are both symptoms of him misrepresented him self and being lazy over the years instead of following through with what he said he would so it's bait & switch.


----------



## whatslovegottodowithit?

If one can't manage the symptoms, then you eradicate the disease.


----------



## Anonymous07

Thundarr said:


> Money is a symptom not the issue. Her being unhappy is another symptom. Her being unhappy and him not making much money are both symptoms of him misrepresented him self and being lazy over the years instead of following through with what he said he would so it's bait & switch.


I don't see it as a "bait and switch". Life changes and circumstances change, so you have to go with it. 

I originally planned to go to medical school to be a PA and had a number of premed courses under my belt, but had some medical issues that came up and put the idea on hold. After my husband and I got married, I had changed my mind about medical school as I was struggling with a few classes and we also couldn't really afford it at the time, so that idea got thrown out. In that case, maybe I "tricked" my husband, as he thought he was marrying someone who would make a lot more money as a PA than I do now working at a non-profit, but he's never had an issue with it. He loves me for the person I am, not how much money I bring in.


----------



## turnera

The issue isn't what he makes. It's that he is lazy and ADMITS he is lazy, and she can't respect him if he won't step up and try to provide for his family better.


----------



## Thundarr

Anonymous07 said:


> I don't see it as a "bait and switch". Life changes and circumstances change, so you have to go with it.
> 
> I originally planned to go to medical school to be a PA and had a number of premed courses under my belt, but had some medical issues that came up and put the idea on hold. After my husband and I got married, I had changed my mind about medical school as I was struggling with a few classes and we also couldn't really afford it at the time, so that idea got thrown out. In that case, maybe I "tricked" my husband, as he thought he was marrying someone who would make a lot more money as a PA than I do now working at a non-profit, but he's never had an issue with it. He loves me for the person I am, not how much money I bring in.


So the notion feels insulting to you because you planned on acomplishing more from a education and career standpoint. So it's not important to your husband if you make money or not. Well that's kind of normal. Now let your husband quit his job and force you to work to pay the bills and see how awesome you feel about him. You'd be in the minority if it wouldn't matter especially if kids who need to be provided for are in the picture. There is no doubt one or more of your husband's needs that he would feel cross about you over selling your self on. Career just wasn't one of them for him maybe.

TC's needs her husband be able to support the family when they decide to have children and the majority of women around the world have this same need. So now she's stuck with the thought of bringing her children into a financially troubled married or choosing not to have kids to prevent financial trouble.


----------



## Mavash.

FourtyPlus said:


> I had my debit card declined, cell phone turned off, car insurance canceled, home foreclosed on. Money still doesn't matter. I used to be a SAHM, we owned a pool home, 3 vehicles, a nice travel trailer, spent thousands on Christmas gifts, never thought twice about eating steak on a Wednesday, we vacationed at least once a year, my jewelry box is filled to the brim. My husband was never home though and when he was, his mind was still at work. I wasn't happy at all. When his business failed, we ended up losing everything.
> 
> We now work together, we barely make ends meet but there isn't a day where I don't go to bed thanking God for my Blessings and I have plenty! I would not be willing to go back to living the high life because now I live the good life!
> 
> I can't define quality of life with a Dollar amount.


I'm glad it worked out for you. 

Some people, myself included, don't want to live life barely making ends meet. It's just too stressful.

But everyone is different. 

I don't define quality of life by a dollar amount but struggling to pay bills gives me anxiety. I've know people like you and have been envious. I wish I could just chill but I can't.


----------



## Thundarr

Mavash. said:


> I'm glad it worked out for you.
> 
> Some people, myself included, don't want to live life barely making ends meet. It's just too stressful.
> 
> But everyone is different.
> 
> I don't define quality of life by a dollar amount but struggling to pay bills gives me anxiety. I've know people like you and have been envious. I wish I could just chill but I can't.


I suspect most people are much more forgiving of failings of themselves and their partners whenever effort is being put forth. My wife and I lived in a really small house our first seven years together and we were as happy then as now. The thing is, we were both putting in effort to get ahead. Doesn't matter though, I think OP is MIA.


----------



## Maricha75

Thundarr said:


> So the notion feels insulting to you because you planned on acomplishing more from a education and career standpoint. So it's not important to your husband if you make money or not. Well that's kind of normal. Now let your husband quit his job and force you to work to pay the bills and see how awesome you feel about him. You'd be in the minority if it wouldn't matter especially if kids who need to be provided for are in the picture. There is no doubt one or more of your husband's needs that he would feel cross about you over selling your self on. Career just wasn't one of them for him maybe.
> 
> TC's needs her husband be able to support the family when they decide to have children and the majority of women around the world have this same need. So now she's stuck with the thought of bringing her children into a financially troubled married or choosing not to have kids to prevent financial trouble.


Throw me in the minority camp then. My husband can't work. Our only form of income (money) is my disability. It has been that way for about three years now. I don't resent him. I don't look down on him at all. And we have three kids to support. Now, OP said her husband makes $30K/year and she makes "a lot more than that"... what is "a lot more"? Here, let's assume "a lot more" puts HER salary at $40K... might be more, but just being conservative. That's $70K/year total, almost $6K/month. I'd love to have that much each month...rather than $850/month. Also, OP said he WAS lazy, early on and lacked ambition THEN. NOW, however, she said he wants to go back to school...but she doesn't want him to because "what if it doesn't materialize into anything".... honestly, it seems he's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't!


----------



## Thundarr

Maricha75 said:


> Throw me in the minority camp then. My husband can't work. Our only form of income (money) is my disability. It has been that way for about three years now. I don't resent him. I don't look down on him at all. And we have three kids to support. Now, OP said her husband makes $30K/year and she makes "a lot more than that"... what is "a lot more"? Here, let's assume "a lot more" puts HER salary at $40K... might be more, but just being conservative. That's $70K/year total, almost $6K/month. I'd love to have that much each month...rather than $850/month. Also, OP said he WAS lazy, early on and lacked ambition THEN. NOW, however, she said he wants to go back to school...but she doesn't want him to because "what if it doesn't materialize into anything".... honestly, it seems he's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't!


It's good you don't resent him if he can't work. Why would you. That's not the same as him choosing not to work. Now our definitions of *can't* may not align but if he truly can't work then it's not the same problem TC has with her husband.

Plus the amount of money he and she makes is not the issue at all. The issue is that he oversold himself at the onset and not only didn't move forward but instead makes 10k less now than he did when they met. If financial security is a need to her then how can that not feel like she was fooled by him.


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## turnera

Personally, I'm not sure a person can start being 'not' lazy; to me, it's a core value of your personality. That said, I hope she can communicate to him what exactly she'd need to see from him in terms of 'not lazy' for her to respect him again. 

Is she a gold digger? Maybe. I think it's more a matter of her feeling he's putting himself and his comfort zone ahead of her and her wants/needs.

Honestly, a MC is probably their best hope.


----------



## turnera

Also remember that Financial Stability is a valid Emotional Need, according to HNHN, just as valid as honesty or sex. If that's your need, that's your need.


----------



## Maricha75

Thundarr said:


> It's good you don't resent him if he can't work. Why would you. That's not the same as him choosing not to work. Now our definitions of *can't* may not align but if he truly can't work then it's not the same problem TC has with her husband.


His doctors: physician and psychiatrist, will not not let him. Not unless they get his head right. But you know what? I would have been just fine if he had stayed working at McDonald's, which was his job when we got married, rather than going to school, racking up 20K+ in student loan debt, and only able to work for ONE YEAR after that point.




Thundarr said:


> Plus the amount of money he and she makes is not the issue at all. *The issue is that he oversold himself at the onset and not only didn't move forward but instead makes 10k less now than he did when they met.* If financial security is a need to her then how can that not feel like she was fooled by him.


Hmmm... let's check out what she said, ok?



tearycloud said:


> Me and my husband live in a high cost of living area, a place where it's normal to pay $1700 a month for a 1 bedroom apartment because this is pretty much where we could find jobs. *The problem is that my husband has only been making in the low $30k range for the past two years. I make a lot more money than he does.*
> 
> After we pay all of our bills there is very little left thanks to our daughters high daycare and high rental costs. We have gone over our budget a million times even met with a financial counselor who said the best thing for us to do is to increase my husband's income :scratchhead:
> 
> My husband admits *he was lazy with his career and jobs in his early 20s (he jumped around a lot) and he had lacking ambition.* He's tried to kick it up now that he is 30, but he has a psychology degree which is terrible in this economy. He's always struggled financially, after we got engaged I found out he had 15k in credit card debt. He paid it off and racked up another $5k a few years later. And he has literally has $0 in retirement savings. I thought things would be okay because at least he had a degree.
> 
> But now his financial situation really bothers me a lot. I know it sounds superficial but I really feel like I rather have a spouse who has the potential to make more income and live a more stable life. I had hoped to be a SAHM mom one day or have another child, but I feel like I have to put both these things on hold because my husband really can't support us and another child would just make things worse.
> 
> How do I cope with this situation?





tearycloud said:


> I already live an hour from my job moving out further isn't an option. I would love to move somewhere cheaper but it's hard to get him on board. If we moved somewhere else he claims he would probably just be unemployed because we live in one of the best job markets supposedly right now.
> 
> When we married he was actually making in the upper 40s. We married a 25 so that was a decent income for his age I felt and I made a similar amount myself. He had told me he was going to purse his Ph.D which is a must in his field, but never did.
> 
> *He has been thinking of getting a masters which would cost about 40k but I am scared of this because what if he takes out all these loans and it doesn't materialize in anything. He already got one masters in something very generic, ended up with a bunch of student loan debt and only being able to get low paying jobs.*
> 
> _He does work full time and he is a good father and helps out a lot. Does pretty much all of the cooking._
> 
> I just feel that we are getting older and I'm fearful of my future life with him. I want more kids but we really cannot afford them. Sometimes I have wanted to pursue other things but would have had to take a pay cut most likely to do an entry level job and we can barely survive with where we are. Not to mention, we have had times where we entered a store and our debit card has been declined, which is sooo embarrassing.
> 
> I just feel like I worked hard in my career and honestly if I had it to do over I would never marry a man working in a social work type field. We met in college and honestly at the time I wasn't thinking of money, as I've gotten older I realize that money is more important that I used to think.



He jumped around in his career EARLY ON. NOW, he wants to do something to improve his earning potential...she's scared it won't amount to anything.



tearycloud said:


> The downside is that my feelings are ruining my marriage. I know I talk very disrespectfully to my husband and he is a good man but I feel like the money problems have made me want to be done with him. A lot of times I don't even want to have sex with him because the resentment has really built up.


Honestly, I think she just wants out. He wants to improve, she wants out.


----------



## turnera

Maybe. But women usually want out because their needs aren't being met, not to find someone else. Walkaway Wife, and all.

I should have brought up that she needs to realize that you can't do ANYTHING with a bachelors degree in psychology except use it to show you have a bachelors to get a job in another field. With a Masters, you can be a school counselor, a few other things. But you can't do much of anything important in psychology without a PhD. That's what my DD22 is pursuing.


----------



## Mavash.

Thundarr said:


> I suspect most people are much more forgiving of failings of themselves and their partners whenever effort is being put forth. My wife and I lived in a really small house our first seven years together and we were as happy then as now. The thing is, we were both putting in effort to get ahead. Doesn't matter though, I think OP is MIA.


I don't even care about living in a small house. What I want is financial security. I want to live beneath my means, to be able to pay my bills, and to save for retirement. The op can't do that. And who cares if the op is gone its a good discussion. 

I do agree putting forth an effort is key. A disability isn't the same thing either. If my husband couldn't work I'd support him otherwise I expect him to put forth effort. I don't get along well with lazy people.


----------



## Maricha75

Mavash. said:


> I don't even care about living in a small house. What I want is financial security. I want to live beneath my means, to be able to pay my bills, and to save for retirement. The op can't do that. And who cares if the op is gone its a good discussion.
> 
> I do agree putting forth an effort is key. A disability isn't the same thing either. If my husband couldn't work I'd support him otherwise I expect him to put forth effort. I don't get along well with lazy people.


I can respect that. I just have an issue with some basically saying the OP's husband is a lazy bum with no ambition, when the OP herself said he wants to further his education...but she doesn't want that because "what if nothing comes of it?"... What if? So, it's better to just NOT let him take that chance to better himself? It's better to continue to resent him for making so much less because he doesn't have the necessary education to further his career?

My husband wanted to join the military when he was in high school (before we met). He changed his mind and decided he wanted to study computer programming. He changed his mind again to become an auto technician. He started school a few months after we married... and he finished one semester. But, he quit after that semester. He needed more hours at work because I was unable to work and we were expecting our first child. He was working at McDonald's at the time. Then he started at Walmart when our oldest was about 10 months old. When our son was 4, we moved 6-7 hours away from my parents so he could go to UTI to become an auto tech. He had never given up that dream. And there was the potential increase in income... not guaranteed, but potential, for sure. I supported him in that endeavor. I never felt "Omg! What if this doesn't work?" To me, that just seems like it would be WANTING him to fail, ya know? 

I guess you could say that early on, MY husband was lazy in his career, too. Instead of reacting to his endeavors the way OP has to her husband (what if it doesn't come to fruition?), I supported him. My only point is that he has the chance to increase his earning potential... he WANTS to do this. But she doesn't want him to. 

Look OP (if you come back), you said the only way to fix the money problems is if he makes more money. Are there job openings in his expertise, or even anything he can easily do, which will make more money AND where he's not going to be miserable doing it (huge factor, it affects home life as well)? Or, is getting the degree his best option? If you want him to make more money, continuing his education may very well be his best option. But i wonder if that will even be enough....


----------



## Mavash.

My husband has had three completely different careers in his life. Auto mechanic, insurance adjuster and now a cop.

BUT he's ambitious and lazy is not a word I'd ever use to describe him. The op however has used it on her husband.

This is about someone's character more than money.


----------



## Thundarr

Maricha75 said:


> Honestly, I think she just wants out. He wants to improve, she wants out.


This is quite possible. She may be looking for justification. If so then it won't matter what he does.


----------



## Maricha75

Mavash. said:


> My husband has had three completely different careers in his life. Auto mechanic, insurance adjuster and now a cop.
> 
> BUT he's ambitious and lazy is not a word I'd ever use to describe him. The op however has used it on her husband.
> 
> This is about someone's character more than money.


And I already quoted, and I even think I put in bold, the parts where she said he WAS lazy, early on in his career. And that he WANTS to get the degree he needs, but she said "what if it doesn't materialize". 



tearycloud said:


> My husband admits he *was* lazy with his career and jobs in his early 20s (he jumped around a lot) and he *had* lacking ambition. He's tried to kick it up now that he is 30, but he has a psychology degree which is terrible in this economy. He's always struggled financially, after we got engaged I found out he had 15k in credit card debt. He paid it off and racked up another $5k a few years later. And he has literally has $0 in retirement savings. I thought things would be okay because at least he had a degree.
> 
> But now his financial situation really bothers me a lot. I know it sounds superficial but I really feel like *I rather have a spouse who has the potential to make more income* and live a more stable life. I had hoped to be a SAHM mom one day or have another child, but I feel like I have to put both these things on hold because my husband really can't support us and another child would just make things worse.
> 
> How do I cope with this situation?





tearycloud said:


> *He has been thinking of getting a masters *which would cost about 40k but *I am scared of this because what if he takes out all these loans and it doesn't materialize in anything*. He already got one masters in something very generic, ended up with a bunch of student loan debt and only being able to get low paying jobs.
> 
> *He does work full time and he is a good father and helps out a lot. Does pretty much all of the cooking.
> *
> -------
> 
> The downside is that my feelings are ruining my marriage. I know I talk very disrespectfully to my husband and he is a good man but I feel like the money problems have made me want to be done with him.  A lot of times I don't even want to have sex with him because the resentment has really built up.


Yep, that's what it is. He's lazy. He doesn't want to go back to school to improve his earning potential.... oh wait, that's the OP's sentiment. He does most of the cooking and helps a lot with everything else. But yup! You got it right! He's just lazy!


----------



## turnera

I worked full time and took 9 hours a semester at night school AND raised a family til I got my degree. 

IMO, if he wanted to go back to school BADLY enough, he'd already be there.


----------



## Mavash.

turnera said:


> I worked full time and took 9 hours a semester at night school AND raised a family til I got my degree.
> 
> IMO, if he wanted to go back to school BADLY enough, he'd already be there.


I worked full time while going to college full time at night.

It about killed me but I did it.

So I totally agree.


----------



## Maricha75

turnera said:


> I worked full time and took 9 hours a semester at night school AND raised a family til I got my degree.
> 
> IMO, if he wanted to go back to school BADLY enough, he'd already be there.


Maybe, maybe not. It took my husband 5 years to decide to go to tech school. And he has a wife who supported him, wholeheartedly. I was, and still am, unable to work. He worked and went to school 13 hours each day. How can this guy go back when his wife has basically said she is scared for him to get the student loans necessary to continue, because she isn't sure he will even be able to get a better paying job. Like I said. He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.


----------



## wilderness

A big part of the reason for my marital difficulties was/is money. I worked in an industry that collapsed and my income went from about 90k down to 28k. I can tell you first hand that this is a VERY difficult thing to deal with (even if I had no wife or family it would have been tough, with family it's just awful). It really upsets me that so many are attributing this man's lack of income to laziness. This is exactly what happened in my life- family and friends assumed I was lazy which is the farthest thing from the truth. Trust me, I worked (work) just as hard as the next guy and probably much moreso as I work 10x harder now than I did when I made much more money!

As far as the situation at hand, this man's income has in fact collapsed. He has suffered a 25% cut in pay while his expenses have risen dramatically during that same time. So the net result is around a 50% reduction in purchasing power- his earnings chopped in half in a few years. Ouch!

Since I've been in approximately this situation, I'd like to speak to some of the considerations and mental thought processes that her husband is likely experiencing:

1. During normal economic times, someone making 40k in their 20's can expect their income to rise (let's put aside the psychology degree, that's overblown in my estimation). So simply doing nothing (meaning continuing to work in the same profession), provided the economy comes back, has a chance to recoup his lost earnings and get him back on track. During normal economic times a productive worker can expect his earnings to increase around 5%/yr. Do the math- it's really not all that unreasonable to assume that continuing along the same career path could eventually zield good results.
Which make the accusations of 'bait and switch' pretty unfair imo.

2. Going to school at night while continuing to work is an option. There are drawbacks, though. First of all, that type of schedule with an already dissatisfied wife is a marriage killer. You'd be faced with a situation where the finances would be harmed EVEN MORE (student loans) and he wouldn't be home or able to help around the house at all. Also, there is a big risk that the degree doesn't pay off, the money is wasted, and the result is a much worse situation than already exists.

3. Quitting work and going back to school f/t presents problems, too. What happens when the next degree he pursues doesn't lead to a better job? What about the drop in income that will result from the lost wages while he is school? Again, if the wife is dissatisfied now, what about when he makes $0/hr? What happens if he finds himself unable to find work and his old employer won't take him back?

You also have to consider that whatever job he is in right now, he has made an investment into. Even if the investment is not panning out right now, it might pan out in time. Is it really worth it to bail on that investment? Arguments could be made on both sides.

When I was in this situation, everyone had an opinion on what to do to fix things. Problem was, most of the opinions were highly impractical. What men in this situation need most of all is support and time. Anyone feeling the pressure to earn more money RIGHT NOW is probably going to have a tough time making good decisions. Because of the way things are these days, long term potential solutions often have short term consequences. Worse than that is that there is always a risk factor and the risks are often based largely on factors that no one can control (ie- circumstances).

If things are to improve in OP's marriage, I believe the decision on what to do needs to made together. It can't be just- I need you to make more money and I don't care how you do it. It has to be, WE need to make more money in the longterm, how are WE going to go about it? Can WE live with a couple to a few years of lean times while a career transition takes place? Can WE live with the risk that this particular decision entails? Can WE live with the negative consequences of this particular decision?

I have seen too many situations like this where the spouse wants the benefits of increased income but isn't willing to make sacrifices, be patient, or accept the risk that goes along with it.


----------



## wilderness

turnera said:


> Also remember that Financial Stability is a valid Emotional Need, according to HNHN, just as valid as honesty or sex. If that's your need, that's your need.


I don't agree with Dr. Harley on this one in the context that you are using it. All of the other needs can be met_ immediately _based on making choices and taking action.

Husband/wife needs more sex. Immediate solution= have more sex.
Husband/wife needs more conversation. Immediate solution= talk to them more.
Husband/wife needs more honesty. Immediate solution= Be more open and honest.

All of these other needs can be fixed as immediate as _today_. All of these needs can be met exclusively by one person.
The financial need takes time, sacrifice on the part of both parties, talent, and oftentimes, luck. The financial need requires the cooperation of both people. It's simply not reasonable to say "financial security is my need, go meet it."

Do I think financial security is a reasonable need? To an extent, yes. But it has to be something that both spouses invest in. There has to be quarter given in the form of patience when circumstances or rotten luck gets in the way. There has to be sacrifices, risk tolerance, and credit given for simply trying to meet the need.


----------



## turnera

So...they should be talking about it. And they're not.


----------



## wilderness

turnera said:


> So...they should be talking about it. And they're not.


True, but it has to be the right kind of conversation. Just look at this thread and you see a lot of the typical non productive conversations that I personally experienced when things went bad in my career. You are lazy (or by extension 'you need to work harder'), you should have done this or that or this, I need financial security I get too anxious just making ends meet, etc etc...

Conversations that identify the problem (or in many cases misidentify the problem) but fail to come up with practical solutions to solve the problem do more harm than good, I've lived it.

The issue in a nutshell is that in a modern day marriage, financial security needs to be a joint effort. How many times did I hear "go get a 2nd job." Except getting a 2nd job would screw up my first job, screw up my relationship with my child, further screw up my relationship with my wife, and barely scrape the surface of solving the issue as I needed to make tens of thousands of dollars more than I was earning and a 2nd job wasn't going to pay anywhere near that.


----------



## turnera

Sounds like you have a bias about this issue. So you're going to 'side' with the husband no matter what. Many of us have tried to see both sides of the story, which is even more important.


----------



## wilderness

turnera said:


> Sounds like you have a bias about this issue. So you're going to 'side' with the husband no matter what. Many of us have tried to see both sides of the story, which is even more important.


Boy I don't see it that way at all. Look at this thread, how many people have taken the comment of the OP out of context and accused the husband of being lazy? As pointed out by Maricha, the OP stated that her husband _was_ lazy in his 20's (who wasn't irresponsible and lazy in their 20's btw?), but now he wants to go back to school.

You want to talk about bias? Check out this comment that you made:



> I worked full time and took 9 hours a semester at night school AND raised a family til I got my degree.
> 
> *IMO, if he wanted to go back to school BADLY enough, he'd already be there*.


While I commend you for doing this, to presuppose that this will work for every family is naaive at best. Let's be honest and practical here. A high percentage of spouses wouldn't put up with their husband/wife being gone so much. AND it's no guarantee that for even those spouses that can handle it, that a degree would increase the earnings of the person in school. In fact, a very good argument could be made that in a lot of these cases, a degree could _hurt_ the finances of the person getting it.


----------



## turnera

No bachelor of psychology degree will get you more than $30,000. And I pointed that out to the wife. But if he really wanted to change things, he would find a way.


----------



## Maricha75

turnera said:


> Sounds like you have a bias about this issue. So you're going to 'side' with the husband no matter what. Many of us have tried to see both sides of the story, which is even more important.


EVERYONE brings his or her own bias to a situation. Some, it is identifying with the OP. Some, it is identifying with the spouse being discussed. Most of the posts have sided with one or the other... with many saying to the OP that yes, her husband is, indeed, lazy...even when it is pointed out that he did things very much like MANY teens/early twenties do. But that doesn't seem to even register. The man isn't lazy. She even said, herself, that he does a lot around the house AND works full time. LAZY would be going to work then coming home and vegging out on the couch the rest of the day/night, not cleaning, not cooking, etc. He may not have the ambition she WANTS him to have, but he certainly isn't lazy. But, maybe I'm biased as well. I still think the OP is just trying to rationalize her excuses for wanting to leave him.


----------



## Maricha75

turnera said:


> No bachelor of psychology degree will get you more than $30,000. And I pointed that out to the wife. But if he really wanted to change things, he would find a way.


And if she really wanted things to change, she wouldn't come up with excuses as to why he shouldn't go back to school. I really think she prefers belittling him, actually. If she didn't, she would support his decision to return to school...to make more of that money they so desperately need.


----------



## turnera

Well, since she hasn't come back to give more info, we're basing all this on speculations over a couple paragraphs. May as well wait and see if she provides more intel.


----------



## wilderness

turnera said:


> No bachelor of psychology degree will get you more than $30,000. And I pointed that out to the wife. But if he really wanted to change things, he would find a way.


Problem is, that just isn't true. As stated in this very thread, her husband used to earn 40k a year. So you've already been proven wrong by her husband's prior earnings. 
Aside from that, PLENTY of people get a degree in one area and then make a career in another. A degree in psychology is most certainly NOT the financial death sentence that you are portraying it to be.

Furthermore, another degree of any type is most certainly NOT the panacea that you are representing, either. This happens all the time in today's economy: a certain career or degree is parroted as 'in demand' by the people that make money off of selling college degrees, and then...woops, the field got oversaturated (or was simply never that lucrative in the first place). In today's world, there is _risk_ associated education; and the risk goes up the older the person is that is persuing it.

And keep in mind that the OP already explicitly stated that she is averse to the risk of her husband getting another degree. It's most certainly not a magic bullet for her husband to go back to school. It seldom is.


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## Blue Firefly

wilderness said:


> And keep in mind that the OP already explicitly stated that she is averse to the risk of her husband getting another degree. It's most certainly not a magic bullet for her husband to go back to school. It seldom is.


I'd be wary too. The last thing she needs is a professional student on her hands.


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## Mavash.

Disclaimer: 

There was a time when I resented being the breadwinner - he had just started over in a new career and was making a whopping $18K a year.

We didn't have kids, were young and I was making good money.

The resentment came in when we did have kids and I wanted to SAH. I solved that problem on my own too. I saved up enough money to stay at home until the kids were in school. At that point he stepped up and began to focus more on his career. He got promoted a few times, got raises, picked up extra shifts and 9 years later I'm still home.

For all my talk I don't think I would have left him over money.

BUT I wouldn't have had kids if I couldn't afford to support them COMFORTABLY on my own. I've never been one to depend on a man for money. Even now I could easily go back to work and make what he does now.


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## Cee Paul

I am 47 years old, partied my brains out(weed,cocaine,beers) until I was almost 30, never finished college, nearly filed for bankruptcy in 2002, and now I have my lab tech license making about $37,000 a year in a medical lab.

My wife on the other hand is 41 years old, has never done drugs of any kind and only drinks once in awhile, has a masters degree in health administration(& finished college on the Dean's list), has always had awesome credit, and is now making almost $70,000 a year as a compliance manager for one of our major hospitals.

If you compare the two of us it's a terrible match but so far we have been married 7 years and together 8 years, but now there is plenty of resentment that has set in on both of us and so we argue and fight frequently over it.


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## Thundarr

Maricha75 said:


> EVERYONE brings his or her own bias to a situation. Some, it is identifying with the OP. Some, it is identifying with the spouse being discussed. Most of the posts have sided with one or the other... with many saying to the OP that yes, her husband is, indeed, lazy...even when it is pointed out that he did things very much like MANY teens/early twenties do. But that doesn't seem to even register. The man isn't lazy. She even said, herself, that he does a lot around the house AND works full time. LAZY would be going to work then coming home and vegging out on the couch the rest of the day/night, not cleaning, not cooking, etc. *He may not have the ambition she WANTS him to have, but he certainly isn't lazy. But, maybe I'm biased as well. I still think the OP is just trying to rationalize her excuses for wanting to leave him.*


Yes we are bias and it's because we don't know the motive or the whole truth so we project it. If he oversold himself and then didn't follow through then he put himself in this vulnerable position more than TC. On the otherhand we know people rationalize and rewrite history. TC could be generally unhappy for any number of reasons and now this is something for her to grab onto as justification for why she's entitled to more.

I don't know?


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## FourtyPlus

"I rather have a spouse who has the potential to make more income and live a more stable life."

as opposed to:

"I rather have my husband use his potential to make more income and live a more stable life."

I believe OP has already resigned to the fact that she wants out and be with someone that can offer her more income.


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## FormerSelf

Only partially read this thread...but it doesn't matter how much anyone makes if no budget. Best thing I did was follow the Dave Ramsey plan of paying off debt..and even though I am far off...it really is an eye opener to the sort of lifestyle change a marriage must make in order to get a handle on finances...square up with reality and see what you have on paper. It helped us see what we all owed...what we made. It tells you to make a realistic budget and then overlap it with your current income...make massive sequester cuts if necessary to pay down debt...and at all costs do not increase our debt burden!!! Put away cards...work second jobs. But Dave Ramsey would say that some things are financial problems...and some things are marriage problems.


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## FormerSelf

Cee Paul said:


> If you compare the two of us it's a terrible match but so far we have been married 7 years and together 8 years, but now there is plenty of resentment that has set in on both of us and so we argue and fight frequently over it.


The sad thing is between the two of you, you guys gross 100K!! However, in spite of the modern, post-feminist age, there still seems to be a huge expectation with many women that their husband is the primary breadwinner. I think it affects some sense of value...and if that value decreases, so does respect and lack of safeness that many women (not all, okay?) seek. Mainly equating financial success with a desired masculine leadership.


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## Cee Paul

FormerSelf said:


> The sad thing is between the two of you, you guys gross 100K!! However, in spite of the modern, post-feminist age, there still seems to be a huge expectation with many women that their husband is the primary breadwinner. I think it affects some sense of value...and if that value decreases, so does respect and lack of safeness that many women (not all, okay?) seek. Mainly equating financial success with a desired masculine leadership.


Exactly; and if this doesn't work out then next time I will try and stay in my lane and date someone with a _similar_ salary and background to mine, so that neither one of us are uncomfortable with the situation.


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## PreRaphaelite

FormerSelf said:


> The sad thing is between the two of you, you guys gross 100K!! However, in spite of the modern, post-feminist age, there still seems to be a huge expectation with many women that their husband is the primary breadwinner. I think it affects some sense of value...and if that value decreases, so does respect and lack of safeness that many women (not all, okay?) seek. Mainly equating financial success with a desired masculine leadership.


Ain't it the truth? And yet they want to be financially independent. 

I tell ya, as time goes on and more women get the better paying jobs, any man that pulls in a good salary is going to have access to a harem if he wants to. He'll have women lining up outside his office.

Funny isn't it, how many men out there would love a woman regardless of the salary she makes or whether she makes any at all. If she's beautiful and caring, or even not so beautiful but warm and caring, the answer is plenty. Taking care of a woman, protecting her and giving her a good life is something many men dream of. And for most, it's just a dream.


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## Cee Paul

PreRaphaelite said:


> Ain't it the truth? And yet they want to be financially independent.
> 
> I tell ya, as time goes on and more women get the better paying jobs, any man that pulls in a good salary is going to have access to a harem if he wants to. He'll have women lining up outside his office.
> 
> Funny isn't it, how many men out there would love a woman regardless of the salary she makes or whether she makes any at all. If she's beautiful and caring, or even not so beautiful but warm and caring, the answer is plenty. Taking care of a woman, protecting her and giving her a good life is something many men dream of. And for most, it's just a dream.


My wife is somehow hoping that I am going to eventually come close to earning her salary of 70k a year. Ummmmm - hellooooo, don't have a masters degree like she does and at this point in life with ADD I'm sure as hell not going to ever get one! I have a better chance at playing the powerball and lotto every week!


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## ScarletBegonias

PreRaphaelite said:


> Funny isn't it, how many men out there would love a woman regardless of the salary she makes or whether she makes any at all. If she's beautiful and caring, or even not so beautiful but warm and caring, the answer is plenty.


Many women out there are the same way.

I make way more than SO and all I want is for him to have a career that makes him happy.My income is enough to provide a nice life and I'm happy at my job.His income is nowhere near that and he hates his job.I'd rather have him stay home and take care of the house stuff than have him stay at a job that makes him feel terrible each day.


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## FourtyPlus

I cannot wrap my head around the money vs. marriage thing - those are two completely different things.

For a long time my husband made 100K and I made zero - so we made 100k and lived the high life (we are in a low income area).

Then I made around 30 K and he made almost nothing - so we made 30k+ and scaled things down pretty much. 

Yes, it bothered him but at the end of the day it's still OUR money, not mine. I can't even think in terms of "he makes, I make". 
Even if he was lazy, I can't and won't measure him based on a number on a piece of paper.


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## PreRaphaelite

ScarletBegonias said:


> Many women out there are the same way.
> 
> I make way more than SO and all I want is for him to have a career that makes him happy.My income is enough to provide a nice life and I'm happy at my job.His income is nowhere near that and he hates his job.I'd rather have him stay home and take care of the house stuff than have him stay at a job that makes him feel terrible each day.


:iagree:

I think there are plenty of women out there for whom this isn't that important, and other women who are realizing that they need to readjust their POVs about men if they want to have good relationships.


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## Thundarr

I'm guessing that effort goes a long way for many or even most women. When it feels like their partner is trying to carry their share of the load in the relationship. If a guy's low income is direct result of poor economy or changing landscape in his career choice then I bet most women don't have such issue with it.

I think resentment occurs when theirs a feeling that their guy is capable of making more but doesn't or when their guy appears to be more motived or whatever until time passes and he just sticks at the bottom of the work force even though he's capable of more.


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## Cee Paul

FourtyPlus said:


> I cannot wrap my head around the money vs. marriage thing - those are two completely different things.
> 
> For a long time my husband made 100K and I made zero - so we made 100k and lived the high life (we are in a low income area).
> 
> Then I made around 30 K and he made almost nothing - so we made 30k+ and scaled things down pretty much.
> 
> Yes, it bothered him but at the end of the day it's still OUR money, not mine. I can't even think in terms of "he makes, I make".
> Even if he was lazy, I can't and won't measure him based on a number on a piece of paper.


My wife still feels like because she busted her azz with 6 years of college and made many sacrifices back then, and the fact that when we met I was totally screwed up financially and nearly bankrupt & she helped get me back on my feet, that I do not have much of a say about anything that goes on concerning money in our house. And that essentially most of it is still all hers and that she's just _sharing_ some of it with me and gets to choose whatever amount.


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## tearycloud

Maricha75 said:


> I can respect that. I just have an issue with some basically saying the OP's husband is a lazy bum with no ambition, when the OP herself said he wants to further his education...but she doesn't want that because "what if nothing comes of it?"... What if? So, it's better to just NOT let him take that chance to better himself? It's better to continue to resent him for making so much less because he doesn't have the necessary education to further his career?
> 
> My husband wanted to join the military when he was in high school (before we met). He changed his mind and decided he wanted to study computer programming. He changed his mind again to become an auto technician. He started school a few months after we married... and he finished one semester. But, he quit after that semester. He needed more hours at work because I was unable to work and we were expecting our first child. He was working at McDonald's at the time. Then he started at Walmart when our oldest was about 10 months old. When our son was 4, we moved 6-7 hours away from my parents so he could go to UTI to become an auto tech. He had never given up that dream. And there was the potential increase in income... not guaranteed, but potential, for sure. I supported him in that endeavor. I never felt "Omg! What if this doesn't work?" To me, that just seems like it would be WANTING him to fail, ya know?
> 
> I guess you could say that early on, MY husband was lazy in his career, too. Instead of reacting to his endeavors the way OP has to her husband (what if it doesn't come to fruition?), I supported him. My only point is that he has the chance to increase his earning potential... he WANTS to do this. But she doesn't want him to.
> 
> Look OP (if you come back), you said the only way to fix the money problems is if he makes more money. Are there job openings in his expertise, or even anything he can easily do, which will make more money AND where he's not going to be miserable doing it (huge factor, it affects home life as well)? Or, is getting the degree his best option? If you want him to make more money, continuing his education may very well be his best option. But i wonder if that will even be enough....




I'm still here, didn't know this thread was still going. The issue is student loans. He's already paying $400 a month to repay on student loans. I'm just weary of adding more student loan debt. I know some people who pay $1000 a month. That's a lot of money. I am supporting him going to grad school, I just hope it translates into a better paying job because it's definitely going to increase our bills on the student loan front.


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## Mavash.

tearycloud said:


> I'm still here, didn't know this thread was still going. The issue is student loans. He's already paying $400 a month to repay on student loans. I'm just weary of adding more student loan debt. I know some people who pay $1000 a month. That's a lot of money. I am supporting him going to grad school, I just hope it translates into a better paying job because it's definitely going to increase our bills on the student loan front.


Ouch!

That's a lot of moola for only a $30k a year job.

How soon before its paid off?


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## tearycloud

Mavash. said:


> Ouch!
> 
> That's a lot of moola for only a $30k a year job.
> 
> How soon before its paid off?


I have no idea, I believe he still has another $40k or $50k to go. So it will be a while.


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## Mavash.

tearycloud said:


> I have no idea, I believe he still has another $40k or $50k to go. So it will be a while.


Wow! And I thought I married some serious debt. My husband owed $45k when I married him but again we live in a lower cost of living so back then rent was at the most $600 so I was able to pay off his debt before we had kids. I was the breadwinner.


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## NineYears

Teary, if your husband were to change careers, what would he want to do? Have you discussed that with him? Is there any way that your family or his can help you financially so that one of you can go back to school? Maybe do an accelerated program? I went back to do a certificate program while working full time and raising a toddler, so if you put your mind to it, it can definitely be accomplished.

My situation is kind of similar to yours, so I think I can relate. I'm in my late 30s and my husband is in his early 40s. We have a 5 year old daughter. He was a waiter when we first met, and 9 years later, he is still a waiter. He's tried a couple of different things, and recently enrolled in a medical assistant program. I don't have confidence that our situation will improve, and I don't make enough money to support him to go to nursing school. We barely make ends meet, but I've saved enough money over the years to buy a house on my less than 50k salary and with some help from my family. He's been making around 26-30k since we got married.

I like to work and have never wanted to be a SAHM. But I never thought that I would have to be the bread winner in my family. Most days, I feel like a single mom because my husband works nights at the restaurant about 4 nights a week. I don't have much personal time, but my husband has 5-6 hours to himself every day after he brings our daughter to preschool. My daughter is 5 now and the resentment is getting stronger and stronger. Mostly because my situation makes me feel like a single mom even though I have a husband. I regret not thinking about our finances more before we got married. Thoughts of leaving this marriage creep into my mind more and more now, even though I don't want to do that because we have a child together.


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## PreRaphaelite

I find a few things I read in this thread to be at odds.

- Reality is that we are in a recession and have been for some time. Finding jobs, changing jobs, getting higher paying jobs is very very hard.

- The cost of going to college has skyrocketed. If a college degree is the key to a better job, it's also the recipe for years of debt.

- The shift from careers which were primarily male-oriented, including factory jobs, construction, certain kinds of skilled labor, etc. to jobs that are more service-oriented or business oriented is marked. Women are well-qualified for the latter and they have entered the workforce in increasing numbers. The competition for jobs that men face in the latter is very high. 

- There is a cultural lag, and it may be more than just culture. Men who do not work or work part time, who stay at home while their wife earns the bread are socially stigmatized and suffer from a lot of psychological stress and low self-esteem. These things can dramatically affect their enthusiasm to better themselves. 

- A man who wants to provide but cannot because there are no jobs for him is often crushed. He feels himself a total failure as a man. Of course, there are men out there who could give a damn and are happy to leech of whoever they can, but they've always been there.

- This one's a little less certain: Some (certainly not all) women who become breadwinners do not view their accomplishments in the same light as do men. Most men feel the obligation to be the provider. Withholding money from the wife with the excuse that she isn't earning anything would be seen as inexcusable. The same is not true of some and perhaps many women. They see their accomplishments as something THEY earned for themselves, and that they overcame years of gender discrimination to get it (gender discrimination which still exists in some ways, but in other ways has virtually disappeared). Yes, they contribute to the household finances, but if they earn far more than their husbands or if their husband doesn't work, they take it as a sign of his inadequacy and do not feel the same obligation to be HIS provider. They expect him to provide for himself.

- Equality of income or jobs does not correspond to the inequality of gender roles, period. A woman can be a SAHM and it is absolutely, 100% socially acceptable. For a man this is simply not true. He must fight off perceptions of his lesser worth, and like it or not, these can and do affect his wife as well. She may do her best to value her husband's contribution as a SAHD, but she too must fight the social stigma, and her own expectations of a man.

The effect that these things have on a marriage is pretty significant. And to me, this thread is another example of it.


And I'll be frank, if my wife made a lot more than me I'd be ok with it as long as she appreciated the things I brought to our relationship, but the moment my lack of income turned into a moral judgment on my worth, I'd prefer to be alone and live a frugal life.


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## PreRaphaelite

Cee Paul said:


> My wife still feels like because she busted her azz with 6 years of college and made many sacrifices back then, and the fact that when we met I was totally screwed up financially and nearly bankrupt & she helped get me back on my feet, that I do not have much of a say about anything that goes on concerning money in our house. And that essentially most of it is still all hers and that she's just _sharing_ some of it with me and gets to choose whatever amount.


Does your wife realize that she's humiliating you by doing this?


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## Cee Paul

PreRaphaelite said:


> Does your wife realize that she's humiliating you by doing this?


Probably, but I don't think she really cares to be quite honest. But in her defense I do tend to spend money like it grows on trees if I'm able to , which is why I was nearly bankrupt when we met because I am terrible with money and always have been.


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## PreRaphaelite

Cee Paul said:


> Probably, but I don't think she really cares to be quite honest. But in her defense I do tend to spend money like it grows on trees if I'm able to , which is why I was nearly bankrupt when we met because I am terrible with money and always have been.


So in that case, is it so much that she considers the income hers or that she's trying to keep your spending habits on a tight leash? If you were financially responsible would that change her attitude?


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## Cee Paul

PreRaphaelite said:


> So in that case, is it so much that she considers the income hers or that she's trying to keep your spending habits on a tight leash? If you were financially responsible would that change her attitude?


I'm thinking that she probably feels that she has worked very very hard to be in the position she's in, and that she is not going to let anything or _anyone_ screw the whole thing up. And I somewhat feel like I'm in her debt because she did bend over backwards to get my credit completely re-stored, and she has introduced me into a nice life as far as material things go that I would never have on my own.


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## john_lord_b3

PreRaphaelite said:


> I find a few things I read in this thread to be at odds.
> 
> - Reality is that we are in a recession and have been for some time. Finding jobs, changing jobs, getting higher paying jobs is very very hard.
> 
> - The cost of going to college has skyrocketed. If a college degree is the key to a better job, it's also the recipe for years of debt.
> 
> - The shift from careers which were primarily male-oriented, including factory jobs, construction, certain kinds of skilled labor, etc. to jobs that are more service-oriented or business oriented is marked. Women are well-qualified for the latter and they have entered the workforce in increasing numbers. The competition for jobs that men face in the latter is very high.
> 
> - There is a cultural lag, and it may be more than just culture. Men who do not work or work part time, who stay at home while their wife earns the bread are socially stigmatized and suffer from a lot of psychological stress and low self-esteem. These things can dramatically affect their enthusiasm to better themselves.
> 
> - A man who wants to provide but cannot because there are no jobs for him is often crushed. He feels himself a total failure as a man. Of course, there are men out there who could give a damn and are happy to leech of whoever they can, but they've always been there.
> 
> - This one's a little less certain: Some (certainly not all) women who become breadwinners do not view their accomplishments in the same light as do men. Most men feel the obligation to be the provider. Withholding money from the wife with the excuse that she isn't earning anything would be seen as inexcusable. The same is not true of some and perhaps many women. They see their accomplishments as something THEY earned for themselves, and that they overcame years of gender discrimination to get it (gender discrimination which still exists in some ways, but in other ways has virtually disappeared). Yes, they contribute to the household finances, but if they earn far more than their husbands or if their husband doesn't work, they take it as a sign of his inadequacy and do not feel the same obligation to be HIS provider. They expect him to provide for himself.
> 
> - Equality of income or jobs does not correspond to the inequality of gender roles, period. A woman can be a SAHM and it is absolutely, 100% socially acceptable. For a man this is simply not true. He must fight off perceptions of his lesser worth, and like it or not, these can and do affect his wife as well. She may do her best to value her husband's contribution as a SAHD, but she too must fight the social stigma, and her own expectations of a man.
> 
> The effect that these things have on a marriage is pretty significant. And to me, this thread is another example of it.
> 
> 
> And I'll be frank, if my wife made a lot more than me I'd be ok with it as long as she appreciated the things I brought to our relationship, but the moment my lack of income turned into a moral judgment on my worth, I'd prefer to be alone and live a frugal life.


:smthumbup: Good analysis, thank you very much, I am learning a lot! :iagree:


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## Fallen Leaf

I've "liked" a bunch of the comments so I'm not going to say much, except that, my husband does have student loans in the $1K. Yikes. And, I too have student loans to add to that. But since I am a SAHM and have a side hobby making pennies (so I don't get bored when the kids are in school), he pays for everything. Of course, we don't see the money as his or mine. We share everything. It's been that way the day we decided to become a couple and then when we married, merged our accounts (he actually closed all his accounts and I put him on my accounts) but now he makes the money. 

I think the OP and her husband just need to communicate. Good luck.


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## CuddleBug

tearycloud said:


> Me and my husband live in a high cost of living area, a place where it's normal to pay $1700 a month for a 1 bedroom apartment because this is pretty much where we could find jobs. The problem is that my husband has only been making in the low $30k range for the past two years. I make a lot more money than he does.
> 
> After we pay all of our bills there is very little left thanks to our daughters high daycare and high rental costs. We have gone over our budget a million times even met with a financial counselor who said the best thing for us to do is to increase my husband's income :scratchhead:
> 
> My husband admits he was lazy with his career and jobs in his early 20s (he jumped around a lot) and he had lacking ambition. He's tried to kick it up now that he is 30, but he has a psychology degree which is terrible in this economy. He's always struggled financially, after we got engaged I found out he had 15k in credit card debt. He paid it off and racked up another $5k a few years later. And he has literally has $0 in retirement savings. I thought things would be okay because at least he had a degree.
> 
> But now his financial situation really bothers me a lot. I know it sounds superficial but I really feel like I rather have a spouse who has the potential to make more income and live a more stable life. I had hoped to be a SAHM mom one day or have another child, but I feel like I have to put both these things on hold because my husband really can't support us and another child would just make things worse.
> 
> How do I cope with this situation?




I hear yah. It's tough to make ends meet anywhere you go today.

In my situation, at first, my wife and I made about the same, close to minimum wage. Then I made more, while she made less. Then she made the same, actually a bit more, no biggie. Then I made more, no big deal. Now today, she makes 65% more than I do. If it wasn't for her promotion to head office, she would still be an assistant manager making about the same as I do now. No kids yet. Live in a very nice area of the city close to everything but not expensive high end.

I didn't marry her for her money capabilities and I hope she didn't do the same when she married me. She is more career orientated were as I am happy and content with what I do and the money I make. I could get the student loan and do the schooling thing, but today, that doesn't guarantee you a job anymore, especially a high paying one, so I stay put.

We pay off both our credit cards and all bills in full one week before they are all due each month.

We have a 20k line of credit we only use in emergencies, so right now $0 on it.

I have no car debts or repairs to do.

My wife has her car paid 50% by her company.

Our mortgage has 5 years left and we are debt free but doing all upgrades in those next 5 years to be really debt free.

I do the finances and planning. My wife pays the stationary bills were I pay the non stationary bills, landscaping, appliances, repairs, groceries, etc.

Have a serious talk with him and put it all on the table. That you want to be a SAHM and would like to have another child, while he works. But do this because he also wants this and not only you.

Wish you all the best.


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