# Getting through partner's trauma



## Mikefromaus (Aug 14, 2018)

Ok here's a short version of events. My wife was sexually molested by her grandfather (unfortunately is now decesed so cant pursue legally) when she was little and told her parents who did nothing. She was then raped when she was 14. We met when she was 16 i was 18 and married 3 years later. She has been going to councilling for the last 4-5 years and our marriage has been on a downward slope since a little while before this. She has only recently reported the rape to police and is currently being investigated. Now our honeymoon period seemed to last for about 10 or so years which from my research is an extraordinary long time. Lots of sex, fun times, dating etc we have 3 wonderful kids 18, 11 and 8 . Now up to current events . She has told me she wants to start over. Becoming friends before anything else will happen. She has completely stopped sexual contact with me "until she is ready" I'm at a loss of what to now as sex was a big part of our marriage during the honeymoon period and continued after. Up till this year I think we would have sex 2-3 times a week. And until a month ago it was barely once a month. I didnt get married to jerk off alot. I want to give her what she needs but I want what I need also. We have started couples therapy recently . Am I being impatient or not. I've read some posts on here that describe "gaslighting" which she is very guilty of even though she denies it. I'm getting very frustrated any help or ideas. Thanks. 

There is obviously a lot more going on but this is a start 

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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

You need to go to a sex therapist together. This is a bigger problem then this board can fix.


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## Mikefromaus (Aug 14, 2018)

Looking for advise from anyone that has had similar experiences. I'm sure I'm not the only person in this position. 

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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

z


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## Mikefromaus (Aug 14, 2018)

I pretty much do 90% of the cooking and household chores. I run a fairly successful business and dont need to be "at work" that much cos I can do most of my job remotely. My wife works for a government department dealing with traumatized children and is also studying pshcology at university. To top it all off we homeschool our 2 youngest children. Not a lot of time for me now.

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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Mikefromaus said:


> I pretty much do 90% of the cooking and household chores. I run a fairly successful business and dont need to be "at work" that much cos I can do most of my job remotely. My wife works for a government department dealing with traumatized children and is also studying pshcology at university. To top it all off we homeschool our 2 youngest children. Not a lot of time for me now.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


Has that been the dynamic that your relationship has worked under for most of these years...or is something about this "new"?

White Elephants: Many times these threads go on for pages and pages and pages and then you say something like: I cheated last year, I'm an alcoholic, she has a "friend" that moved in last month 
so we can help him while he is down on his luck, she stays late with her boss everyday at work....etc...etc...etc...

Do you have a white elephant?


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

Mikefromaus said:


> Ok here's a short version of events. My wife was sexually molested by her grandfather (unfortunately is now decesed so cant pursue legally) when she was little and told her parents who did nothing. She was then raped when she was 14. We met when she was 16 i was 18 and married 3 years later. She has been going to councilling for the last 4-5 years and our marriage has been on a downward slope since a little while before this. She has only recently reported the rape to police and is currently being investigated. Now our honeymoon period seemed to last for about 10 or so years which from my research is an extraordinary long time. Lots of sex, fun times, dating etc we have 3 wonderful kids 18, 11 and 8 . Now up to current events . She has told me she wants to start over. Becoming friends before anything else will happen. She has completely stopped sexual contact with me "until she is ready" I'm at a loss of what to now as sex was a big part of our marriage during the honeymoon period and continued after. Up till this year I think we would have sex 2-3 times a week. And until a month ago it was barely once a month. I didnt get married to jerk off alot. I want to give her what she needs but I want what I need also. We have started couples therapy recently . Am I being impatient or not. I've read some posts on here that describe "gaslighting" which she is very guilty of even though she denies it. I'm getting very frustrated any help or ideas. Thanks.
> 
> There is obviously a lot more going on but this is a start
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


She was raped at 14...previously was sexually molested by grandfather. Due to you having an 18 year old (presumably with her and you as biological parents, and having concept happen after you got married when she was 19), you two are now in your late 30s.

She "only recently reported the rape", so it has been 20+ years. When someone waits that long, it means they have gone deeper and deeper into themselves to deal with it and are getting more and more frustrated and ... well, it MEANS they want a "do over" of life back to when she was 14.

So, that's YOUR life with her now.

She is going to do the do-over. Back to the beginning. You want her to be your life partner? You need to go back in time with her.

I would ask if you can join her at counseling - a few times. A good counselor will happily tell you what your role is in all this.

And be clear on this - it's all about HER now and for many years to come. You will not be able to say "but what about my needs?"


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

DustyDog said:


> She was raped at 14...previously was sexually molested by grandfather. Due to you having an 18 year old (presumably with her and you as biological parents, and having concept happen after you got married when she was 19), you two are now in your late 30s.
> 
> She "only recently reported the rape", so it has been 20+ years. When someone waits that long, it means they have gone deeper and deeper into themselves to deal with it and are getting more and more frustrated and ... well, it MEANS they want a "do over" of life back to when she was 14.
> 
> ...


For sure some good points for thought!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Your wife's dealing with the CSA and rape is clearly part of her issues right now. I'm concerned about her talking to the police now about a rape that happened when she was 14. How can she even prove that she was raped now? My concern is that if she does not have the evidence to prove rape after all this time, her reporting it could cause her more harm.

I think that another part of the problem is that it's not unusual for a marriage to start having problems at about the 7 year mark (7 year itch). There is something in the human makup that seems to run in 7 year cycles. Basically your marriage needs an overhaul, has for some time now.

So put those two things together and I'm not surprised that you are having troubles. 

Get the books "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs". They have a good plan for restructuring a marriage to make it stronger and to bring back the passion.

Of course your wife's sexual abuse/rape history is an issue, but there are other aspects of your relationship that can be worked on while she works on her own issues.


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## Mikefromaus (Aug 14, 2018)

Mr.Married said:


> Has that been the dynamic that your relationship has worked under for most of these years...or is something about this "new"?
> 
> White Elephants: Many times these threads go on for pages and pages and pages and then you say something like: I cheated last year, I'm an alcoholic, she has a "friend" that moved in last month
> so we can help him while he is down on his luck, she stays late with her boss everyday at work....etc...etc...etc...
> ...


No apart from deleting some identifying details on the story. the domestic duties were once fairly evenly shared before the younger kids arrived . Unfortunately my wife has never really been that good at "keeping house" I dont know of any "white elephant" hanging around.

I have been accused of being too angry. I feel that it's coming up from the total frustration I feel in our relationship. 

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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Mikefromaus said:


> No apart from deleting some identifying details on the story. the domestic duties were once fairly evenly shared before the younger kids arrived . Unfortunately my wife has never really been that good at "keeping house" I dont know of any "white elephant" hanging around.
> 
> I have been accused of being too angry. I feel that it's coming up from the total frustration I feel in our relationship.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


I just went back and re-read your post. I failed previously to notice your problems are 4-5 years in progress. 

Read the books suggested by Elegirl. Go get some couples counseling.

Also read Married man sex life primer....but I'm not sure if it is relevant in your case, but it is a fun read.

I'm not going to pretend that I even know the slightest thing about dealing with a spouse with past abuse ..... such a tragic thing


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## Akinaura (Dec 6, 2011)

Elegirl is spot on with her book suggestions. I'm another CSA survivor and I've been with my husband now 10 years. He and I really worked out the majority of my issues of the psychological impacts that come from CSA.

As much as I love of police force, investigating an old case essentially re-victimizes a person. Your wife needs to be in counseling, needs to take it seriously, and you need to hold her feet to the fire on only thing: SHE IS A SURVIVOR BECAUSE VICTIMS DONT CONTINUE ON TO HAVE FAMILIES AND WONDERFUL CHILDREN!!!!

You're her rock now. Read the books. Go be angry and frustrated at the right person, not the her or the situation. Get into therapy yourself. Therapy isnt going to make you less weak in her eyes, not when you tell her you're gonna do it so you can be a better husband for her and better man for yourself. My husband has seen a therapist a couple of times just to help himself learn about my bipolar disorder.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

It seems that because of the counselling she is dealing with the trauma of the abuse in her past, so its not surprising that your sex life is suffering. 
This is the time of 'for better or for worse'. This is the time when you need to support her though this hard painful time. 
Marriage is not all about the good, its also about the bad and painful. Be a man and hang on in there.


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## Mikefromaus (Aug 14, 2018)

It is extremely difficult to suppress my anger whilst i was sitting with her at the police station giving her statement. The detail that she had to go into was pretty harsh. But timelines and other details of her memory and other witnesses from that time are corroborating the evidence. She feels she needs to do this to get past it not to be re traumatized 

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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Hang in there MIKE ! Maybe this is just what she needs to get through her past. If it takes all you got to get through this and you guys end up where you want to be ...it will be worth it.
Be her rock.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

DustyDog said:


> She was raped at 14...previously was sexually molested by grandfather. Due to you having an 18 year old (presumably with her and you as biological parents, and having concept happen after you got married when she was 19), you two are now in your late 30s.
> 
> She "only recently reported the rape", so it has been 20+ years. When someone waits that long, it means they have gone deeper and deeper into themselves to deal with it and are getting more and more frustrated and ... well, it MEANS they want a "do over" of life back to when she was 14.
> 
> ...


I would be very interested in finding out what my role is too, but wouldn't feel obligated to accept it.

If you are truly "Just friends", that isn't monogamous and you are free to date/have sex/commit elsewhere.

If she really means you are just a friend in her eyes while demanding faithful commitment from you, that is a sucker's bet and you will be sorry if you accept it.

It is one thing to say "I am sick and can't be a good spouse right now", that falls under "in sickness and in health" and is IMO an important part of marriage. What I see as entirely different is "I might want to stay your spouse, and I might not, I'll get back to you." When you put somene on hold, they are free to hang up.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

SpinyNorman said:


> I would be very interested in finding out what my role is too, but wouldn't feel obligated to accept it.
> 
> If you are truly "Just friends", that isn't monogamous and you are free to date/have sex/commit elsewhere.
> 
> ...


They are married, he has no right to cheat.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> They are married, he has no right to cheat.


Herein lies the discrepancy I'd have to get to the bottom of. "Married" and "Just Friends" are mutually exclusive IMO, so I'd have to find out exactly what is meant.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

SpinyNorman said:


> I would be very interested in finding out what my role is too, but wouldn't feel obligated to accept it.
> 
> If you are truly "Just friends", that isn't monogamous and you are free to date/have sex/commit elsewhere.
> 
> ...


This is the most insensitive and appalling advice concerning a RAPE survivor I have ever read. I think I just threw up a little.

OP, this is your chance to decide what kind of man you want to be.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

DustyDog said:


> She was raped at 14...previously was sexually molested by grandfather. Due to you having an 18 year old (presumably with her and you as biological parents, and having concept happen after you got married when she was 19), you two are now in your late 30s.
> 
> She "only recently reported the rape", so it has been 20+ years. When someone waits that long, it means they have gone deeper and deeper into themselves to deal with it and are getting more and more frustrated and ... well, it MEANS they want a "do over" of life back to when she was 14.
> 
> ...


I agree with this. @Mikefromaus, I think you should seek some individual counseling as well as couples therapy/sex therapy. I think you need it for yourself to help you deal with the anger and frustration. Since she has never really dealt with the trauma it is going to take a significant amount of time for her to get back to normal. 

She needs support and understanding from you and the individual counseling for you could help you to have good perspective and patience. 

I always try and see the positive in any situation so I present this scenario. Maybe you need to focus 100% on being her supporting friend through these times dealing with the legal aspects and counseling. Don't stop offering her love and affection during this time. Then once the legal stuff is behind her you get to go back to dating and re-discovering the romance and affection. Once you get back to a loving relationship renew your vows and put this horror show behind you. She needs to be in control of her recovery here. 

You could go the easy route and demand your needs are met now, but I see that as a dead on arrival position to take and will only lead to her running away from you emotionally and physically. 

Love understanding and lots of counseling for you both.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Mike, welcome to the club nobody ever wanted to know existed. You are a *Secondary Survivor* of child sex abuse (CSA). Your wife is the *Survivor*. Those are the formal terms, though I prefer _victim_ to _survivor_ because your wife was the victim of several crimes. One can _survive_ self inflicted circumstances, and unfortunately many CSA/rape victims have very negative self images and blame themselves in some way for what happened. While that's not the main point of my post, elements of it will be important.

Your wife's parents' response is likely to have caused much damage to her, perhaps more than the sexual abuse itself. CSA victims frequently believe they are dirty and unloveable. Perhaps the abuser told them so, or perhaps the adults they told (her parents in this case) effectively said so. The child internalizes a belief that people will shun them if they find out about the abuse, and then the child starts blaming themselves for the abuse.

Ftr, my now xw was abused as a young child.

Working with abused children and going to uni for psychology may be re-traumatizing her. You may be unknowingly triggering her (and she may not understand what is happening at the time either). My xw had an aversion to a particular song, a food, and kissing. She had never told me of her abuse until we'd been together for 30 years and were discussing possible divorce due to the sad state of the marriage (and the kids were leaving the nest). So I never knew what was going on with her. But once I knew, the pieces all fell into place. Looking back I can now see she was usually being triggered during sex. 

Your wife learned about sex in a very dysfunctional way at an age when she was not mature enough to process it. There was coercion and possibly violence associated with it, along with emotional trauma. Then the rape at 14 which brings on another set of issues (which I know very little about and can't really comment on). The rest of us understand sexuality and romantic relationships in a normal way, but your wife does not. You cannot apply your views or logic onto her. You can't assume she enjoys sex in the way others do, nor that she understands the male perspective on sex. My xw said she thought "men just need to squirt it out". That's how she understood a husband's desire for sex in marriage. Just a physical biological event no different than burping. Despite a number of conversations along the years about sex and our relationship the words never sank in to her consciousness that for me sex was a bonding event and was something I desired to do together with her. Your wife's understanding of sex within marriage may be extremely distorted. 

A few things to know: You are not her therapist. You can never be her therapist. You can only indirectly be involved in her therapy under the direct supervision of her qualified trauma therapist. That is, don't do or say anything in an attempt to help her out unless her therapist has asked you to do so. About all you can say is that you support her in whatever she pursues in the way of counseling. You can state your needs and your boundaries, but this should be done carefully. Expect that sex is off the table for the indefinite future, perhaps forever.

Marriages frequently fail when the crisis bubbles up. She needs good qualified trauma therapy by someone who knows what they're doing with CSA/rape victims. She may have chosen you because you were "safe" to her at the time. It is common for the woman to have no problems with sex before marriage, and may even be quite promiscuous. Boyfriends are not a threat. But when they get married the husband is now an adult male family member with possible the aura of leadership, which is the same context as her abuser. It is not unusual for sex to disappear after the wedding in these cases because the husband is now very un-safe to her. As you start to assert your need for sex in the marriage you may become un-safe if she thought you were not driven by sex. This can cause more anxiety in her and it can create more conflict in the marriage.

Now is not the time for regular marriage counseling.

Standard marriage advice frequently doesn't apply when there is CSA/rape involved. You doing dishes or her giving up sex more often are going to be counterproductive. You stating strong boundaries around sex will be counterproductive.

She is the victim of various crimes and terrible parenting. She needs the right kind of therapy. This is no different in concept to the innocent pedestrian who is hit by a car and suffers a broken leg. If they refuse competent treatment and end up with a permanent disability, it is on them not their spouse. An adult is obligated to make a strong effort to be as good a spouse (and parent) as they can. She is aware of her traumas and is via her psych education well able to understand she needs qualified therapy. If she is not doing so then she is failing to live up to her responsibility to you and the family. 

It can be difficult for the Secondary to determine if their spouse is unable/unwilling to progress. Recovery for her may not be quick after all these years. In some ways you need to walk the tightrope of being supportive but also looking out for your own well being. You, too, are the victim of the crimes, just secondarily. Your life has been badly effected, and surely your children's lives have been too in various ways. Being a Secondary is a very tough position. You love her and you want her to be happy. But you have needs and desires yourself which are being rejected. It is possible for a while to deal with it, but you also start seeing a new normal being established where your needs are being suppressed with no light at the end of the tunnel. You may feel guilty for wanting sex with her because you know it is triggering to her or that she sees you as some kind of ugly animal for having lustful desires. 

I suggest you also seek some individual counseling to help you deal with these kinds of issues. Also, should it come to it, you may need help coming to terms with leaving the marriage if things devolve too far for too long. This is a very difficult corner the Secondary gets put in. Good luck.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

SpinyNorman said:


> Herein lies the discrepancy I'd have to get to the bottom of. "Married" and "Just Friends" are mutually exclusive IMO, so I'd have to find out exactly what is meant.


The op says they are married.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> The op says they are married.


I got that, but some arrangements that sound incompatible w/ marriage are being discussed.

I would want to know what "starting over" means exactly. Does it mean she has no commitment to eventually be more than friends, as when they started? If so, then really start over and get a divorce.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> This is the most insensitive and appalling advice concerning a RAPE survivor I have ever read. I think I just threw up a little.
> 
> OP, this is your chance to decide what kind of man you want to be.


Yeah, I see the victim card on the table, but it doesn't trump everything else.

OP will have to decide what kind of man to be, but if he's being asked to be the kind who has "WELCOME" printed on the upper side, I don't recommend it.


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

Mikefromaus said:


> Ok here's a short version of events. My wife was sexually molested by her grandfather (unfortunately is now decesed so cant pursue legally) when she was little and told her parents who did nothing. She was then raped when she was 14. We met when she was 16 i was 18 and married 3 years later. She has been going to councilling for the last 4-5 years and our marriage has been on a downward slope since a little while before this. She has only recently reported the rape to police and is currently being investigated. Now our honeymoon period seemed to last for about 10 or so years which from my research is an extraordinary long time. Lots of sex, fun times, dating etc we have 3 wonderful kids 18, 11 and 8 . Now up to current events . She has told me she wants to start over. Becoming friends before anything else will happen. She has completely stopped sexual contact with me "until she is ready" I'm at a loss of what to now as sex was a big part of our marriage during the honeymoon period and continued after. Up till this year I think we would have sex 2-3 times a week. And until a month ago it was barely once a month. I didnt get married to jerk off alot. I want to give her what she needs but I want what I need also. We have started couples therapy recently . Am I being impatient or not. I've read some posts on here that describe "gaslighting" which she is very guilty of even though she denies it. I'm getting very frustrated any help or ideas. Thanks.
> 
> There is obviously a lot more going on but this is a start
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


May I please offer my condolences to both your wife and to you?

I'd like to ask you a question, if I may? 

Is your primary concern - the NUMBER ONE concern you have - "When will our sex life resume to a satisfactory level?"

From your post, it sounds like that is what you are most worried about.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

SpinyNorman said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> > This is the most insensitive and appalling advice concerning a RAPE survivor I have ever read. I think I just threw up a little.
> ...


 Please do not ever become a rape or abuse counselor. Let's just say you don't have the personality type for it…


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> Please do not ever become a rape or abuse counselor. Let's just say you don't have the personality type for it…


You don't know my personality, and I like it that way.

I am in favor of helping a spouse w/ a problem, but I'm not sure I understand the arrangement proposed here. If it is "just friends", then she has abandoned the marriage and he'd be a fool to keep up the pretext and her victimhood isn't a factor.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

In the context of advising the OP, and because I touched on it in my post, I'm going to comment on Mikefromaus' wife's desire to start over.

It doesn't matter what that really means in the very short term as far as sex or physical touch (hugs, kisses, non-sexual neck massage, holding hands, etc). A crisis has erupted in her life, no different than if it were a physical health crisis or some form of mental health crisis. Now is the time to be supportive. This is the sickness and the worse part of the marriage vows. 

However, it is not a pass for her to unilaterally change the terms of the relationship permanently.

Being that her crisis involves CSA/rape it becomes very complicated for the Secondary. As a human we all need to feel loved, which we experience with touch, verbal affirmation, and sex. Without those things in a relationship it becomes just acquaintances. Not even really friends, or at least not good friends. A good friend will sacrifice for you to some extent. They will feel badly when you are unhappy. For the Secondary it can be very unsettling when the marriage they thought they had suddenly looks a whole lot more like a room mate or acquaintance relationship rather than a loving romantic and sexual relationship. Our past experience has taught us this kind of change indicates the other person no longer loves us. They no longer desire us. It can look like they are using us, perhaps for money or domestic chores. 

The recovery process for the victim takes time during which they can seem self absorbed. They can be irritable, even nasty. They can have large mood swings.

Wow, not very conducive to a happy marriage, is it? In the short term you can realize this is the process for her. Imagine it were a severe physical injury from an accident of some sort. The immediate healing takes time and requires many accommodations. Then there's the recovery phase back to normal, perhaps involving physical therapy. Maybe they never recover back to 100% which requires you to be aware of some occasional limitations. 

View her recovery from the CSA/rape along the same lines. She's in crisis right now, which requires you to understand her situation and make some significant accommodations. Her inability to engage in sex or other romantic behaviors does not signal anything. She just needs to deal with this crisis, and this is what it takes. Once she does, there's the longer term recovery phase where you two will relearn how to be romantic and sexual with each other. She may return to what you'd say is her prior normal, or she may have a few things you need to do or not do.

The caveat to all of this is that she is honestly working to deal with her issues. If she is too fearful or too lazy then she is at fault. Then you have no obligation to stick by her. Your tightrope to walk is to be supportive while she is honestly working at recovery, but also setting some boundaries to let her know you are not a doormat and you won't be her eunuch domestic servant. I used the term "the family mule" for how I was being treated.

I would start with very clearly stating support for her in whatever way she feels would be helpful. Offer to visit with her therapist so that you can learn how to best assist the process. Imo this is a one time offer. You want to be helpful, you don't want her to think you think she's crazy or broken. I think it is also fair for you to tell her that this is difficult for you and you are trying to be understanding. The thing is she doesn't understand sexuality or romantic relationships at all like you do. You can't explain this to her either. So you can't pressure her for sex or somehow imply she's obligated to do certain things for you. This does not compute in her mind to what you think it does.

It would be ideal if you are dialed in with her therapist so you can have some idea of what is going on and what the timeline is. Your participation will likely be quite minimal. The therapist might assign you to do or not do certain things. You might only visit with the therapist every few months. It would be helpful for you because you can judge whether she is progressing. Progress might look like she's getting worse for a while, too. Her therapist or your own therapist can help you with how to respond if she is mistreating you such as verbally lashing out.

If you conclude after some months she is not honestly working in therapy, you can set some stronger boundaries. I would always use the sandwich technique. Good-bad-good. Carrot-stick-carrot. Tell her you want her to be happy and it makes you hurt when she is having such difficulties, but you can't go on like this in the marriage indefinitely. You need to be in a loving marriage relationship not a perpetual room mate situation. You want the marriage to become a happy enjoyable relationship for both of you again.

This kind of boundary is intended to be a bit of a kick in the pants to get her moving. But you can see how it is also a bit playing with fire given the nature of her issues.

Eventually you may decide you can't stay in the marriage with her. Many Secondaries come to this point. It isn't that you won't love her any more. You'll probably feel sad for how she is suffering, and then you'll feel guilty for leaving. She may be unwilling to really confront her issues. She may be unable. Or, she may recover into someone quite different than she was before.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Thor said:


> In the context of advising the OP, and because I touched on it in my post, I'm going to comment on Mikefromaus' wife's desire to start over.
> 
> It doesn't matter what that really means in the very short term as far as sex or physical touch (hugs, kisses, non-sexual neck massage, holding hands, etc). A crisis has erupted in her life, no different than if it were a physical health crisis or some form of mental health crisis. Now is the time to be supportive. This is the sickness and the worse part of the marriage vows.
> 
> ...


I love this post. It is sensitive, emotionally intelligent, still contains boundaries, and addresses both your needs. It's a good lesson in the FACT that HOW you choose to say something is as important as what you say. Approach your wife with the mindset of this poster, and you will likely succeed. Approach it like a jackass who "won't be pushed around" at your peril.


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## Mikefromaus (Aug 14, 2018)

Thor said:


> In the context of advising the OP, and because I touched on it in my post, I'm going to comment on Mikefromaus' wife's desire to start over.
> 
> It doesn't matter what that really means in the very short term as far as sex or physical touch (hugs, kisses, non-sexual neck massage, holding hands, etc). A crisis has erupted in her life, no different than if it were a physical health crisis or some form of mental health crisis. Now is the time to be supportive. This is the sickness and the worse part of the marriage vows.
> 
> ...


thank you for your post and the time it took to write it has shown me some insight I had not entertained. I will call her therapist and ask to be more involved in her healing. At the end of the day i just want my wife back. The beautiful carefree woman I fell in love with, she is my soulmate and I will do my best to get her and us through this. 


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## Mikefromaus (Aug 14, 2018)

SpinyNorman said:


> You don't know my personality, and I like it that way.
> 
> I am in favor of helping a spouse w/ a problem, but I'm not sure I understand the arrangement proposed here. If it is "just friends", then she has abandoned the marriage and he'd be a fool to keep up the pretext and her victimhood isn't a factor.


thanks for the reply she has not gone to "just friends" she just wants to become friends again first before continuing to lovers and a more intimate and sexual relationship. 


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## Mikefromaus (Aug 14, 2018)

happiness27 said:


> May I please offer my condolences to both your wife and to you?
> 
> I'd like to ask you a question, if I may?
> 
> ...


Our sex life used to be amazing and very spontaneous nowadays up until recently was very much a scheduled event 3-5 days after her period had finished once or twice that day or the next then nothing till same time next month. And.the sex was not very intimate (more details ahead) .before our sex was face to face. From behind, Sideways. Oral and every other way. Recently it is only doggie style or she cant climax.( doggie style can be fun but not very intimate) i have always tried to get her there before I do. She says she does enjoy sex but she can now. So in answer to the question sex is an important part of our marriage to me and I want it back 

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## Mikefromaus (Aug 14, 2018)

I thank everyone for there comments and feedback so far I will try and comment on the posts that I feel relevant 

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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Mikefromaus said:


> Our sex life used to be amazing and very spontaneous nowadays up until recently was very much a scheduled event 3-5 days after her period had finished once or twice that day or the next then nothing till same time next month. And.the sex was not very intimate (more details ahead) .before our sex was face to face. From behind, Sideways. Oral and every other way. Recently it is only doggie style or she cant climax.( doggie style can be fun but not very intimate) i have always tried to get her there before I do. She says she does enjoy sex but she can now. So in answer to the question sex is an important part of our marriage to me and I want it back
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


This is a very long way to answer YES

I am a high drive woman and sex is VERY important to me. But it would not be my primary motivation for getting through an issue like child abuse and rape. Can you see why sex being your primary motivation to get your wife better might come off as a wee bit....selfish?


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## Mikefromaus (Aug 14, 2018)

I really want to confront her parents about the lack of parenting. Belief. Trust or respect that they didn't have for 2 of there three daughters not to mention 2 of there nieces as well. There 3rd daughter was not subjected to the abuse as far as I know .I dont even know where to begin. Obviously the first part would be to.ask my wife what she wants. I hate my kids going to her parents house for any reason. 

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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

At the risk of sounding like an insensitive boob, I think some perspective is in order.

So Mike sees his marriage and sex life dwindling from where it was over a 4-5 year period. Cue questions, frustration, and eventually resentment. 

He finds out fairly recently of the trauma. Yes, much understanding, empathy, and patience for his wife is in order. But that does not act as a magic wand and dispense with 4-5 years of resentment and sexual frustration, while his wife withheld her trauma. So, you have the lie by omission, and the withholding of intimacy.

Additionally, posters indicating that he should have boundaries (as well as understanding and patience) in this situation are 100% correct, even if blunt terms are being used.

She may never be able to be emotionally or truly physically intimate with you again, or at least for the foreseeable future. You have to have acceptance of this fact to make your decisions.

FTR, my wife is also a CSA survivor. She thankfully told me early in our relationship. Had she not told me until several years in, while avoiding intimacy with me, there may have been irreparable damage done, because the best of times in the marriage would have been lived as a lie.

I can sense @Akinaura loading up to put me on blast for this already... ;-)

Mike, I definitely think you should meet with her counselor to see how you can help her heal. But I also think it important to very clearly understand what you are working towards with her. Make sure it aligns, or you may invest years into her recovery only to find out you had different destinations.

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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Mikefromaus said:


> thanks for the reply she has not gone to "just friends" she just wants to become friends again first before continuing to lovers and a more intimate and sexual relationship.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


Thanks for replying, but I don't understand "Become friends again". Aren't you friends now? I consider my spouse my friend, among other things.

If I don't understand this completely that's ok but you need to really understand what the arrangement is. If she's abandoning the commitment, don't stick around. If she is staying in the marriage then by all means try to help her heal- "in sickness and in health."

It was suggested by someone else earlier that her counsellor explain the arrangement to you. That isn't a bad place to start but remember her counsellor has a professional obligation to represent your wife's best interests, meaning that if he told you you might be wise to bail he'd lose his license and be liable for a lawsuit. So what you might be wise to do is see your own counsellor who does these sort of things, that person will be free to say whatever to you.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

This is exactly what I meant by making sure you share the same destination.

Not identifying this is an exercise in futility.

Furthermore, what eroded the friendship?


SpinyNorman said:


> Thanks for replying, but I don't understand "Become friends again". Aren't you friends now? I consider my spouse my friend, among other things.
> 
> If I don't understand this completely that's ok but you need to really understand what the arrangement is. If she's abandoning the commitment, don't stick around. If she is staying in the marriage then by all means try to help her heal- "in sickness and in health."




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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Mikefromaus said:


> I really want to confront her parents about the lack of parenting. Belief. Trust or respect that they didn't have for 2 of there three daughters not to mention 2 of there nieces as well. There 3rd daughter was not subjected to the abuse as far as I know .I dont even know where to begin. Obviously the first part would be to.ask my wife what she wants. I hate my kids going to her parents house for any reason.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


This is the kind of thing you don't do without your wife's approval *and* the approval of her therapist.

My xw's parents were at the very least totally negligent. I would bet money her mother knew. Her mother was also abused, as were her mother's siblings. Not by the same person as my xw was (although it is possible xw was also abused by the same person and has not told me). I also have a female friend who was abused as a young girl by her step father. So was her sister. My friend was extremely careful about keeping her kids away from him, but her sister did not, and yup the scum abused those kids. That's when he was finally arrested.

You'd think someone who was abused would be hyper-vigilant about keeping their kids away from an abuser. Likewise, if a child tells a parent they were abused then one would think the parent would stop the abuse immediately. Oddly it does not seem to be so in many cases.

You are going to feel some pretty powerful emotions about the abuse. Fortunately my xw's abuser was dead by the time I found out about the abuse. If he were alive and living nearby it would have been ugly. My feelings towards her mother are likewise strongly negative to put it nicely.

I think you are entitled to set boundaries regarding your wife's parents. I think it would be fine to tell your wife that you are unable to be friendly with her parents due to the harm they caused her. Indirectly it has harmed your kids, but I would be very cautious about stating that to your W because she will feel accused as if it is her fault. If you don't want her parents in your home or if you don't want to visit them, I think that is totally justified. You are completely justified in not trusting her parents with your kids. I am not sure how you navigate explaining it to your kids. They shouldn't be told the details unless they are at risk of being abused, in which case they should be warned in age appropriate terms. Your wife likely wants to keep the abuse hidden from everybody.

Abuse victims tend to blame themselves. They also tend to believe they are fundamentally unloveable or dirty. They fear that the abuse proves it, and thus if someone finds out about the abuse the person will know how damaged they are. If you were hit by a car and it were not in any way your fault, you would not feel guilty or unloveable because of a broken leg. You'd know it wasn't your fault. Not so with the CSA/rape victim. It changes their self-perception. You would interpret a slight permanent limp as unfortunate and sometimes a bit difficult. The CSA/rape victim interprets the psychological scars as proof of their deep defectiveness. As a generalization, victims are extremely private about the abuse.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Mike, you say your wife has been in therapy for 4 or 5 years now, and you've been in couples therapy for a short while.

1) When did you become aware of her abuse and rape?
2) When did she reveal those events to her therapist?
3) Is she seeing the same therapist all along, or has she hopped around to several different therapists?
4) Does her therapist specialize in CSA or rape trauma?
5) Has the CSA or rape been brought up in couples therapy?


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## Absurdist (Oct 10, 2014)

Mike I urge you to read Haunted Marriage.

It is written from your perspective.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> Mike, I definitely think you should meet with her counselor to see how you can help her heal. But I also think it important to very clearly understand what you are working towards with her. Make sure it aligns, or you may invest years into her recovery only to find out you had different destinations.


:iagree:

And state this in the room with the counselor and your W.

And if the W or women here think that is being an insensitive boob, well so be it. This was a fundamental reason why the OP married her.


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Your wife's dealing with the CSA and rape is clearly part of her issues right now. I'm concerned about her talking to the police now about a rape that happened when she was 14. How can she even prove that she was raped now? My concern is that if she does not have the evidence to prove rape after all this time, her reporting it could cause her more harm.
> 
> I think that another part of the problem is that it's not unusual for a marriage to start having problems at about the 7 year mark (7 year itch). There is something in the human makup that seems to run in 7 year cycles. Basically your marriage needs an overhaul, has for some time now.
> 
> ...



Two things: One, he said that she has corroborating witnesses so "proving" the rape, while there are legal situations involving innocent until proven guilty, she isn't just making this up. 

Two, "she works on her own issues" - in a marriage, whatever is an issue for one is an issue for both. You don't just separate traumas like this and leave the traumatized partner on their own to work it out by themselves. Not how this works. A partner does have the option of leaving the spouse who is having to deal with the trauma. Yeah, go ahead and leave when things get tough.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

If her desired end state does not include restoration of the marriage, number 2 no longer becomes the guilt laden land mine you presented it to be.

If she envisions the marriage be healed but with emphasis on different things...or without certain things that may be important to the OP...then there is no shame in walking away.



happiness27 said:


> Two things: One, he said that she has corroborating witnesses so "proving" the rape, while there are legal situations involving innocent until proven guilty, she isn't just making this up.
> 
> Two, "she works on her own issues" - in a marriage, whatever is an issue for one is an issue for both. You don't just separate traumas like this and leave the traumatized partner on their own to work it out by themselves. Not how this works. A partner does have the option of leaving the spouse who is having to deal with the trauma. Yeah, go ahead and leave when things get tough.




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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Help me out here,

Has your wife actually said her end goal is a marriage with no sex?

Or is she so deep in the painful stage of her recovery that any sexual touch is massively triggering, and she wants to go slowly so that physical intimacy can follow the path of her healing?

Is it is the first one, that is an issue.

If it is the second, then showing your big strong man parts and telling her to step in line probably won't HELP.


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

Mikefromaus said:


> Our sex life used to be amazing and very spontaneous nowadays up until recently was very much a scheduled event 3-5 days after her period had finished once or twice that day or the next then nothing till same time next month. And.the sex was not very intimate (more details ahead) .before our sex was face to face. From behind, Sideways. Oral and every other way. Recently it is only doggie style or she cant climax.( doggie style can be fun but not very intimate) i have always tried to get her there before I do. She says she does enjoy sex but she can now. So in answer to the question sex is an important part of our marriage to me and I want it back
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


Since you asked to hear from CSA and abuse victims, I thought I would reply with my own experience. 

I recall telling my husband something similar to what she has told you. He was agreeable, although certainly disheartened and a bit confused, again, like you are saying. However, our sex life has continued through the years anyway. I remember I got upset at some point while in therapy and waved my arm at my husband and said, "I don't want to have sex for...3 MONTHS!" I was upset. I was scared. I was confused. Emotionally, I didn't even know exactly what I was aiming my anger at. I just needed to RESET. (We didn't end up going 3 months without sex - it just felt good to be able to say that and have him say "okay") Like I just said, though, I was really scared more than anything else. I wanted sex, too, but sex was the place where I was damaged. It was awful. The most pleasant beautiful thing about being an adult human and people f'd it up for me. Really pisses you off. NOBODY wishes this upon themselves.

Over the years, I have pushed through it - because I loved my husband and I did love having sex with him but...so much self-talk would creep in about how worthless I am, and all the completely TWISTED ways that CSA damages a person's psych. 

The most important thing I needed from my husband was for him to approach me with my permission - to give me the power at all times to dictate permission. I needed my power back. I needed to be able to say no at any point in time and for him to *get it* that I was doing this not because of anything about him - but everything about owning my body again. 

Since every person is different and the damage incurred creates different results in each person, what your wife needs/wants is going to be unique. I'm only guessing that this initial phase is to help her reset the control over her own body and to test whether you are going to be a person who can be there for her. She needs to know if she can trust you - because her reference point for trust has been shattered. 

I don't know your wife and how her CSA and the rape has manifested in her thoughts and behavior. For some, it creates promiscuity, alcohol and/or drug abuse. For others, an avoidance or fear and refusal to talk about it.

Once the talk therapy opens the door, there's a floodgate opening. And a relearning begins. 

Is there any way you can imagine being in her shoes at all? Can you imagine some man you knew as a child, a friend, anyone, who (in an imaginary scenario) took you down on a bed or somewhere and undressed you and jacked you off against your will because he was so much bigger and you were so much smaller in body size and you couldn't get away? Would you simply imagine yourself fighting and getting away - but what if you couldn't? What if it was someone you trusted, someone you were attached to that the rest of the family was attached to and afterwards (after the abuse) - who would you tell? Would they believe you and side with you? Would they call you a little ***? Would you imagine they would call you a little *** and ridicule you for making up horrible stories that not only put down this other family member they all loved and adored? Would they silence you for embarrassing the whole family? Put yourself there. Go ahead. Put yourself in that imaginary scenario. 

You''d probably keep silent. You'd probably not fight because you'd be focused on surviving the ordeal. You'd have your sexual orientation questioned. How did that happen? Are you gay now that it has happened? Tell someone - oh, wait, there's no one to tell.

Put yourself there in your imagination. Spend some time thinking that through - all the details. 

Can't do it? Don't want to do it? 

Your wife doesn't want to do that either - but she can't escape it...because - it happened. 

It's not a matter of "getting over it" - it's a matter of her finding a way to weave her history into stronger threads to create a new fabric. 

This isn't all about HER, either. The fact that you are involved with her means you will experience an evolution of thoughts and experiences also - you will end up examining your own self as well. Not examining yourself for sexual abuse necessarily but it will cause you to evolve in your own thinking about sex. 

Yes, there are plenty of selfish people who will advise you to cut your losses and run. Or, you can stay and feel through the pain with your wife to see both of you as a couple reach the other side.

My husband and I have worked and worked through this and it did not result in a loss of our sex life at all. We are very close and loving - much, much more so than ever. We have great sex. I just get a bit sad when advice is given to not put up with a spouse who is struggling, especially regarding sex. That advice keeps people from reaching the paradise that is on the other side - the other side of all the tough conversations and the emotions and the effort. On the other side are two really dedicated people who have a marriage of epic value and reward.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

I'm sorry for what you have experienced.

I hope his wife shows some semblance of the same commitment. It will start them in the right direction.


happiness27 said:


> Since you asked to hear from CSA and abuse victims, I thought I would reply with my own experience.
> 
> I recall telling my husband something similar to what she has told you. He was agreeable, although certainly disheartened and a bit confused, again, like you are saying. However, our sex life has continued through the years anyway. I remember I got upset at some point while in therapy and waved my arm at my husband and said, "I don't want to have sex for...3 MONTHS!" I was upset. I was scared. I was confused. Emotionally, I didn't even know exactly what I was aiming my anger at. I just needed to RESET. (We didn't end up going 3 months without sex - it just felt good to be able to say that and have him say "okay") Like I just said, though, I was really scared more than anything else. I wanted sex, too, but sex was the place where I was damaged. It was awful. The most pleasant beautiful thing about being an adult human and people f'd it up for me. Really pisses you off. NOBODY wishes this upon themselves.
> 
> ...


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## Mikefromaus (Aug 14, 2018)

happiness27 said:


> Since you asked to hear from CSA and abuse victims, I thought I would reply with my own experience.
> 
> I recall telling my husband something similar to what she has told you. He was agreeable, although certainly disheartened and a bit confused, again, like you are saying. However, our sex life has continued through the years anyway. I remember I got upset at some point while in therapy and waved my arm at my husband and said, "I don't want to have sex for...3 MONTHS!" I was upset. I was scared. I was confused. Emotionally, I didn't even know exactly what I was aiming my anger at. I just needed to RESET. (We didn't end up going 3 months without sex - it just felt good to be able to say that and have him say "okay") Like I just said, though, I was really scared more than anything else. I wanted sex, too, but sex was the place where I was damaged. It was awful. The most pleasant beautiful thing about being an adult human and people f'd it up for me. Really pisses you off. NOBODY wishes this upon themselves.
> 
> ...


this feels like the right advice and I really appreciate you taking the time to post especially being a survivor of CSA yourself it gives me hope that that dim light at the end of the tunnel just got brighter . thank you 

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## Mikefromaus (Aug 14, 2018)

happiness27 said:


> Since you asked to hear from CSA and abuse victims, I thought I would reply with my own experience.
> 
> I recall telling my husband something similar to what she has told you. He was agreeable, although certainly disheartened and a bit confused, again, like you are saying. However, our sex life has continued through the years anyway. I remember I got upset at some point while in therapy and waved my arm at my husband and said, "I don't want to have sex for...3 MONTHS!" I was upset. I was scared. I was confused. Emotionally, I didn't even know exactly what I was aiming my anger at. I just needed to RESET. (We didn't end up going 3 months without sex - it just felt good to be able to say that and have him say "okay") Like I just said, though, I was really scared more than anything else. I wanted sex, too, but sex was the place where I was damaged. It was awful. The most pleasant beautiful thing about being an adult human and people f'd it up for me. Really pisses you off. NOBODY wishes this upon themselves.
> 
> ...


Just out of curiosity did you pursue the offending person for the abuse that happened to you and if you did . What was the outcome. You dont have to answer but just curious 

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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

Mikefromaus said:


> Just out of curiosity did you pursue the offending person for the abuse that happened to you and if you did . What was the outcome. You dont have to answer but just curious
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk



It was my brother. If you have read how CSA works, they groom you, then create scenarios to scare you, then swear you to secrecy, gleen loyalty from you, etc. From my present viewpoint, I think my father would have been the one to stand up for me. But I was very afraid. As a child, you really, really just don't have the brain to figure this out. 

I never spoke up about it until many years later when we were at my parents's house and he was with his fiancé - and he was, as usual, giving me some crap about something, poking fun at me, ridiculing me in front of his fiancé in the kitchen while the rest of the family was outside at the BBQ. I was 16 by then and blew up at him and told him to stop giving me crap or I was "going to tell" -- at which point he told his fiancé to go outside so he could talk to me in private. Then he turned to me and whispered "What are you talking about?" and I said "You KNOW what I'm talking about..." I was steaming mad. I had at that moment decided to stand up to his ridicule and abuse, poking fun at me (which happened at random times whenever he felt like tossing his ego around.) He pretended to not know what I was talking about. 

That was the only time I confronted him. 

After I was in my 30s, I finally told my mother. Then, I told both my sisters. My mother's reaction was: "You aren't going to tell everybody else in the family about this, are you?' 

UGH.

Another incident that happened was with my first job when I was 16 and the 30-something beer-belly manager at the burger joint cornered me in the bathroom, shut the lights out and molested me in the bathroom (he had a key). I screamed and fought him and got away - and ran out into the lobby, which was closing and only had two employees. The woman employee was very concerned (I was wailing and sobbing) and asked me what was going on...I told her that the manager had broken into the bathroom and grabbed me all over. Her response? She put her hands on her hips and said: "My brother would never do that!" Yeah, the manager was her brother. 

I left immediately and walked the six blocks home and never told a soul. I just told my parents that I quit and never explained it. 

Love it when people tell you "You could tell your parents. You could call the police..." Yes, in modern times like now, where people have paved a path for CSAs to find help, it seems obvious. But back then - which was the 60s, this was not the case. You didn't talk about it because people didn't believe you. Young girls were prone to hysteria, right? Who was a witness to this event? No one except me. Who could I tell? His sister who didn't believe me? What was going to happen? I would draw a bunch of negative attention to myself over something where there were no witnesses. That's the position that CSAs often find themselves. 

People are very uncomfortable with CSA - they tell you how you should have told, you should have reported it, you should get over it, you shouldn't let it effect your life. 

THAT'S why they don't tell.


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## Mikefromaus (Aug 14, 2018)

happiness27 said:


> It was my brother. If you have read how CSA works, they groom you, then create scenarios to scare you, then swear you to secrecy, gleen loyalty from you, etc. From my present viewpoint, I think my father would have been the one to stand up for me. But I was very afraid. As a child, you really, really just don't have the brain to figure this out.
> 
> I never spoke up about it until many years later when we were at my parents's house and he was with his fiancé - and he was, as usual, giving me some crap about something, poking fun at me, ridiculing me in front of his fiancé in the kitchen while the rest of the family was outside at the BBQ. I was 16 by then and blew up at him and told him to stop giving me crap or I was "going to tell" -- at which point he told his fiancé to go outside so he could talk to me in private. Then he turned to me and whispered "What are you talking about?" and I said "You KNOW what I'm talking about..." I was steaming mad. I had at that moment decided to stand up to his ridicule and abuse, poking fun at me (which happened at random times whenever he felt like tossing his ego around.) He pretended to not know what I was talking about.
> 
> ...


Similar story to my wife the world we live in can be awful. I read/listened to an audiobook called " Allies in healing when the person you love was sexually abused as a child" by Laura Davis. And it deffinately opened my eyes to a different world around CSA .all this information that you have given is so similar to what my wife is going through that it helps that I dont feel alone 

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## Mikefromaus (Aug 14, 2018)

Mikefromaus said:


> Similar story to my wife the world we live in can be awful. I read/listened to an audiobook called " Allies in healing when the person you love was sexually abused as a child" by Laura Davis. And it deffinately opened my eyes to a different world around CSA .all this information that you have given is so similar to what my wife is going through that it helps that I dont feel alone
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


Was anything ever done legally about your brother? 

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## Mikefromaus (Aug 14, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> Help me out here,
> 
> Has your wife actually said her end goal is a marriage with no sex?
> 
> ...


Deffinately in a painful stage, and starting out slowly again .....


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## Mikefromaus (Aug 14, 2018)

Thor said:


> Mike, you say your wife has been in therapy for 4 or 5 years now, and you've been in couples therapy for a short while.
> 
> 1) When did you become aware of her abuse and rape?
> 
> ...


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

Mikefromaus said:


> Was anything ever done legally about your brother?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


Oh, gawd, no. There were no witnesses. Nobody cared. 

I once confessed to a clergy what happened and his response was: "Well, this kind of thing happens in families."

Again, UGH.

For your wife: eventually she will see that she can be proud of her strength and ability to be a good person is the biggest win over the people who took away her innocence. 

One woman I deeply admire is Elizabeth Smart of Utah - the woman kidnapped as a girl and held hostage for months. She was raped daily by that POS. Her story of survival and recovery is incredibly inspirational. 

I think sometimes you have to look at the successful survivors for hope. Elizabeth Smart refused to let that experience define how she was going to live the rest of her life. Her book is entitled: "Where There's Hope"


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## Akinaura (Dec 6, 2011)

farsidejunky said:


> At the risk of sounding like an insensitive boob, I think some perspective is in order.
> 
> So Mike sees his marriage and sex life dwindling from where it was over a 4-5 year period. Cue questions, frustration, and eventually resentment.
> 
> ...


Now why would I blast you? :grin2:

Everything you said was on point, logical, and wel written. I've been talking to Auban about this thread to get his viewpoint because it can be such an emotionally charged subject for people, myself included. I wanted to make sure before I responded to posters, I got his POV so that I was just charging in based off of emotion s and not what was best for the OP.


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## Akinaura (Dec 6, 2011)

OP, I can tell you my story, tell you how years of therapy helped somewhat, if you'd like. But you'll find that the therapy was only good for helping me regain my sense of self...my "power", my "control" of my own body.

What helped out even more is what a lot of posters have been trying to say, some bluntly, some softly. YOU are going to be what helps your wife out the best. 

At her core she is terrified, scared, unsure, and most of all thinking she had thoroughly ruined her marriage now that she said something. THAT is the evil that abuse does. It puts all the blame on the victim. Her saying "I just want to be friends right now" is an attempt to create distance, to create an safe zone. Been there, done that, have the scars. You needs to start enforcing boundaries for your own health and for her health. These boundaries will help her feel safe again. Not only that, you need to sit down with her counselor and talk intimacy. You two have been married long enough to have an 18 year old. "Just friends" doesnt cut it in the intimacy department. And I'm not talking about sex. 

Victims are stick in the "why me" stage...Survivors ha e moved to the action phase. They start actively doing things to better themselves and the people around them.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Mikefromaus said:


> 1) When did you become aware of her abuse and rape?
> 
> About 6 months ago ( the rape)
> 20 odd years ago before we were married about the CSA
> ...


Ok, that's mostly good news. It sounds like she has the right therapist, and it is important the marriage therapist is also aware of her traumas.

Is there any particular reason she didn't tell you about the rape sooner? The rape and the CSA are connected at least emotionally for her, but it is interesting to me she hid that from you for so long. As if it is a bigger deal to her conscious mind than the CSA. I'm sure her therapist is dialed in on the right things, mostly I don't want to concentrate on the CSA here if it turns out the rape is the bigger issue. Btw, it is a correlation that CSA victims are much more likely to also become rape victims.

Your wife's psychological response to her traumas is normal. That's something important to realize. Just like when we feel so sad when a pet dies, it is a normal reaction. The state we are in is not desirable and is not the state of the vast majority of humans at that moment, so we would say the person is not presently "normal". But this is a bit of a trap. It isn't "normal" to hobble around on crutches with a hip length cast on. Only a tiny number of people are doing so right now. But it is a normal reaction to a major leg injury. Your wife's behavior and her view of sexuality are not "normal" today, but she has reacted as any normal human would to what happened to her.

But as you have heard from CSA survivors on this thread they don't view themselves as "normal". They think they were always defective. This is a huge thing to them. This is why they avoid telling people about their history, even their therapist! 

There aren't many resources for the Secondary Survivor out there. Someone already mentioned the book "Haunted Marriage". It is worth reading. I believe you order it directly from the author's website. There are a few forums out there but none of them were standalone. They were subforums on sexual abuse type sites, and the secondary sub-forum was not a safe space. There is a big divide between the viewpoint of the victims and secondaries. Tbh I moderate what I post on this forum because it isn't inherently safe here for secondaries. I highly suggest you seek IC from someone who does not specialize in childhood trauma (because they are more likely to have been a victim if that is then what they seek to specialize in).

Most especially if you are a Nice Guy. Not just a basic decent man, but one of the Nicest Guys people know. There's a book called "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Dr. R. Glover about a dysfunctional set of behaviors and thought processes he calls the Nice Guy Syndrome. If you fall into that spectrum you are going to be eaten alive by what's going on with your W. Nice Guys tend to pair up with similarly dysfunctional women who are frequently the victims of CSA and/or rape. Maybe a bit of white knight stuff going on there. Nice Guys come across as "safe" to traumatized women for a variety of reasons, and they end up married. This is truly a Perfect Storm situation, eventually blowing up for both of them, or the Nice Guy ends up trampled his entire adult life. 

Anyhow, just some caution for you to be sure your own needs and best interest are being served in this process, too. You're going to go through some big emotional swings for quite a while.


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