# Is this OK?



## EmStacey (Aug 8, 2020)

I've been in a relationship for 8 years. We met when I was 16 and he was 17. Last year we got married and it was a wonderful wonderful day! However, I've noticed him speaking to a couple of women and I can't tell if it is my over reacting or if the way he is acting is not appropriate in a marriage. (Please note he has always had female friends and I have never had a problem with them however I get a bad feeling about this.)

In September 2019 he started his 2nd year of his PhD. He met another girl in his lab and got on really well with her. I've never been one to stop him talking to other girls or seeing other girls however this relationship makes me feel really uncomfortable.

In November he went out for a drink with her and ended up staying the night. He said that he had missed the train home and I couldn't drive to get him as I had also had a drink. I said he should get a taxi but he didn't want to spend £60 to get home (he was about 17 miles away in the nearest city for decent bars).

When he came home the next morning his toenails had been painted and I said this made me feel really uncomfortable that he had spent the night there, even if it was on the sofa as he claimed. Painting his toenails is completely out of the ordinary - he would never let me do that. We had an argument about this and I felt he couldn't see what he had done was inappropriate as I felt he should have kept an eye on the train times or paid the £60 to get home.

I asked him if he had slept with her and he says they just drank in a bar and then went back to hers and talked and watched a film. Eventually we calmed down and put the situation behind us.

The other day (May 2020) I saw he was texting this girl again on facebook messenger so I logged into his facebook to see what was being said and found the following messages.

Girl: "Hey man! How are you doing in lockdown?"
Husband: "Hey Honestly, missing you. Haven't been able to get you out of my head for a couple of days now - been meaning to message you but work kept getting in the way. How about you?"
Girl: Taken another intermission from work because i had nothing to do. What have you ben doing?"
Husband: "Oh nothing, dramatic, just really enjoyed the night we had together - would love another!"

Nothing was planned and they continued to talk about work.

I scrolled back to the texts from November after the night he spent round hers and he thanked her for opening up to him and apologised if he made her feel uncomfortable and he wasn't sure where his head was at the moment. From what i can take from that conversation they had a heart to heart about their mental health issues.

I did not confront him on this and decided to monitor what he was saying to her.

Yesterday he got a text from her saying she had broken up with her girlfriend (she's bisexual) and was feeling rubbish. He offered to go round to hers to see how she was and help her with a presentation she has to do on zoom for monday. 

He asked me if I minded him going round to hers as he was worried about her due to her mental health problems. I said that I would never stop him doing anything but it makes me sad that he wants to go and see other women - I would rather he didnt. I also said how would he feel if I did the same with a man and he said he would feel really uncomfortable but really appreciated how 'strong' I am about this.

He has made a lot of effort in terms of his appearance - ironed his shirt (even though its 33 degrees today - t-shirt weather!), shaved, aftershave etc. and even asked me how he looked before he left. He is currently round there now and I can see a message saying how hot it is and he apologises for the sweaty hug he is going to give her.

At the same time as all of this he is also talking to his ex that he dated before me when he was 15ish (I feel this is a childish relationship so can't understand why he's taking it so seriously but maybe I don't understand!). They broke up badly and hadnt spoken for years. He has told me numerous times he would like to speak to her again as a friend as they got along at some point. Again I have made this clear it makes me feel uncomfortable but again I wouldn't stop him doing it. He has been speaking to her and has discovered she is vegan. They talk a lot about this and she has recommended some material to read and watch about it. So now we are vegan because of the supposed health benefits.

I had suggested going vegetarian a while ago but he completely dismissed this as stupid so I find it a little frustrating that he only had to speak to his ex a little to decided that we both need to go vegan.

They have also planned a walk with her dog which I again said I rather he didn't but wouldn't stop him.

Sorry for all this rambling. It's been a relief to get it off my mind. I am so confused if this is acceptable behaviour for a married man. When we speak about it he is very good at explaining why it is OK and I get so confused and think maybe I am over reacting but my gut feeling is that it is wrong. I feel like he wants to act like a single man yet have the benefits of a wife at home. I literally do everything from cooking to cleaning and bring in all the money so he can complete his PhD so am starting to feel a little undervalued, but thats another issue...

I would appreciate some guidance on this!


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Look up gaslighting.
Your husband is an expert at it.
He’s also disrespecting you big time and more than likely sleeping with this other woman. When he gets his PhD he’s going to get worse if you don’t find your backbone. 
Where he tells you that you are “strong” substitute the word strong for stupid and you will know how he really feels about you. 
Whatever you do for him whether it’s cooking, cleaning etc just stop, just because he treats you like a live in maid with benefits doesn’t mean you have to behave like one.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

No, this is not acceptable. Your husband is either on his way to an affair or already in one.

Even if there was nothing going on at all, your husband should still have enough respect for you that he doesn't want to hurt you or make you uncomfortable. He doesn't. You have told him how you feel and he does it anyway. He is choosing her over you. Maybe he's denying that to himself, maybe he's not.

There is something going on though, that much is clear. It is totally unacceptable for him to say "I haven't been able to get you out of my head" and how much he enjoyed "the night we had together, would love another". Him going to support her, that's also unacceptable. Him getting all dressed up to do it? HUGE red flag. Why is he dressing up for her? When I've gone to see people _just_ to support them I walk out the door in whatever I'm wearing or quickly throw something on if I'm not dressed yet. She's newly single, and he's making a move.

When I had a "friend" who was dumped and I was "just supporting" her... a lot more went into my appearance.

You said he apologized for making her feel uncomfortable and saying he wasn't sure where his head was at, did they say anything else about that? Because from where I'm sitting it sounds like he tried to make a move or kissed her and she was uncomfortable because she wasn't single at the time.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Do you have access to his phone records? If so, look at how often they are texting or calling. Does he ever call her? You could put a VAR (voice-activated recorder) in the car if he drives, or wherever he studies in the apartment/home. That catches a lot of cheaters.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

I think you are right to be worried. He hasn’t outgrew the single young guy stage and is enjoying the attention and time spent with other ladies. Even if he did not sleep with this other woman that night, He is putting himself in Emotional Affair at least. 
and all that is very disrespectful to you -he values what they need, want, say more than your feelings and needs - ex. the vegan or toe painting story.

make sure you do not get pregnant until this is resolved. People do not change magically because they become parents.


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## EmStacey (Aug 8, 2020)

With regards to the message about making her uncomfortable he went on to say "I wish I had said so much more to you, I really just struggle to talk about this." 

She replied with " don't be silly nothing to be sorry for at all. and no rush, can have a rant any time." 

There's nothing else in the messages to even suggest what they were talking about.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

EmStacey said:


> With regards to the message about making her uncomfortable he went on to say "I wish I had said so much more to you, I really just struggle to talk about this."
> 
> She replied with " don't be silly nothing to be sorry for at all. and no rush, can have a rant any time."
> 
> There's nothing else in the messages to even suggest what they were talking about.


Even if he is just talking to her about mental health, personal stuff, etc. he shouldn't be. You are supposed to be his person, not some other woman. That is playing with fire and well on his way to an EA (emotional affair). If he really needs an outside source to talk to it should be a therapist, not another woman.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

You know I’ve been giving this some thought and I’m getting pissed on your behalf with this little *****’s behavior. 
Next time he’s visiting his “friend” pack a bag for him and leave it at the door. Lock him out for a few hours and then tell him that the next time you’ll be changing the locks. 
And tell him he needs start earning money because the rent is due and you’re not buying food for him anymore.


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## EmStacey (Aug 8, 2020)

What about when he tells me how much he loves me? How he thinks I'm so beautiful and he is so lucky? Does he mean it or is this guilt?


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

EmStacey said:


> What about when he tells me how much he loves me? How he thinks I'm so beautiful and he is so lucky? Does he mean it or is this guilt?


Think about this... do his _words_ match his _actions_? Words don't mean **** if his actions don't match. 

If he loved you so much, why does he disrespect you like this? If he thinks he is so lucky, why is he so willing to risk that?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

He’s playing you and you’re allowing it.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

EmStacey said:


> What about when he tells me how much he loves me? How he thinks I'm so beautiful and he is so lucky? Does he mean it or is this guilt?


He loves that you have sex with him, house him, cook for him, clean up after him and do his laundry. 
And he really loves that you’re okay with him dating other women.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

You need to stand up for yourself. If he says can I go hang out with this girl, tell him no. That you don’t think it’s appropriate for your husband to be hanging out alone with another women. If he doesn’t respect this, you have bigger issues.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

How’s your relationship? Do you guys have a good sex life? Do you guys go on dates and have fun together? Or does he essentially do his own thing while you tend to the house?


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

EmStacey said:


> What about when he tells me how much he loves me? How he thinks I'm so beautiful and he is so lucky? Does he mean it or is this guilt?


He means it and believes it at the moment. But words without actions are empty vessels. He does not behave like he appreciate you.

You really need to give him reality check or this will be your life. He doesn't have any reason to change - it works for him. Nice wife, and warm meal and sex at home. And outside attractions are there for him too, such as dating and flirting. What's not to love?


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## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

Andy1001 said:


> ... When he gets his PhD he’s going to get worse if you don’t find your backbone.
> ...


I think in this case, it will get worse when he gets his PhD, regardless of what she does or doesn't do. 

It's distressingly common for people - whether married or not - to break up when one of them graduates. I've seen it firsthand in my family, and also seen it happen to friends.


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## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

EmStacey said:


> ...
> 
> When he came home the next morning his toenails had been painted
> ...


👆 👆 👆 THIS PART... OMG.

He/they basically rubbed their relationship in your face to see what you would do about it; most important to remember here: _whether they had sex or not it doesn't matter. They tested you to see what they could get away with, and they walked away thinking "she'll let us get away with an awful lot."_

You didn't put your foot down and walk out right there, and so he and she felt open to continue.

I can imagine being in a similar situation as you (when I was younger) and not knowing what to do here, because if you're anything like I was, on some level you'd be shocked to discover your partner could even _think_ this was okay. 

It seems to me this is the clearest sign how far apart you two are. 

You can "put your foot down" and give him an ultimatum here, and he may apologize and promise to do better (or maybe not), but either way, you're just kicking the can down the road. If you're not the type of woman who would tolerate her man's affairs, it sounds like he's not the right guy for you.


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## C.C. says ... (Aug 1, 2020)

EmStacey said:


> Husband: "Hey Honestly, missing you. Haven't been able to get you out of my head for a couple of days now


You know when I say things like this to a man or he to me? When the sex was good and it keeps playing like a movie reel in my head over and over.

He’s pushing you because he thinks you’ll keep putting up with it. Total disrespect. I couldn’t handle it and his **** would’ve been on the front lawn the second I saw that text. I know it’s not always that easy when you have feelings, but this would be so unforgivable to me. I feel for you. Im sorry you’re going through this. He’s an ass.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm with the others on this. His behavior it 100% unacceptable. 

I went through something like this with my son's father. He was in medical school and residency. Like you, I took care of everything and supported him. My thought was that he was in a difficult program and all would chance once he was done. He had female friends. I was not concerned because, well I was sure that he would not cheat. Stupid me. And yea, we ended up divorced as soon as his residency was over. He had several affairs that I did not find out about until near the end of our marriage.

About 90% of medical student/residents divorce their spouse once they have completed their education. The numbers are similar for people who get a Phd and their spouse does not have a Phd and has been supporting them. The spouse is a convenience who helps them achieve their goals. Once they have graduated they feel weighed down by a spouse that they feel is now a burden and beneath them.

By the way, in his residency, all but one of the residents in his program were divorced within a year of finishing the residency.

Your husband is, at the very least, having an emotional affair. It's highly likely that they also had sex.

If you want to save your marriage you need to let him know in no uncertain terms that you will not accept what's going on. Your marriage might linger for a while, but at this point he thinks he can gaslight you and he thinks you are are you stupid enough to believe him. This is what cheaters do, they gaslight and the lie. 

Tell him that you are not ok with him dating while he's married to you. That you are not telling him that he cannot see his new girlfriend. You are telling him that if he does not end the relationship TODAY that you will not stay married to him. If he will not end it, he needs to move out of your home TODAY.

If he does not agree to end this relationship today, then you have your answer.

Stop supporting him financially. Tell him that he needs to find a way ASAP to support himself financially. He needs to cover 50% of all household bills to include rent, utilities, food, etc. If this means that he has to stop his Ph.D. program, that his choice. He is the one who decided to use you to get through school and to also abuse your trust.

Stop doing anything for him. Stop doing his laundry, cooking for him, etc. Tell him that he needs to do 50% of everything... basically he needs to start taking responsibility for his own home and his own things like laundry. 

Here's a couple of books that can help you, and even him.... 

*Surviving an Affair* by Dr. Willard F. Jr. Harley
*Not "Just Friends": Rebuilding Trust and Recovering Your Sanity After Infidelity* by Shirley P. Glass
If you do not draw a very hard line in the sand at this point, your marriage is over.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

EmStacey said:


> What about when he tells me how much he loves me? How he thinks I'm so beautiful and he is so lucky? Does he mean it or is this guilt?


Right now, it apparently means whatever he wants you to think it means. He's manipulating you. He's probably amazed at how smart he is and what he can get away with right now. 

I'm guessing you never had a conversation about privacy and boundaries? Presently that conversation is going to be a lot less pleasant than it would have before you were married. He is, at the very least, stepping out on YOUR needs to meet someone else's needs. 

At the very least, let him know that anytime he sees this woman outside of work (which means any place other than where he works, NOT working on a project away from work), you need to be present. And never, ever, let him believe it's OK to spend the night away from home without explicit permission from you, and never, EVER, would that explicit permission be given if he's spending the night in a co-ed environment. 

You are possibly like me. Open, trusting, and vulnerable. Vulnerability is not such a bad thing; I think it's required to have empathy. But problems arise when you're partner is not similar. He/she can (and, I suspect, in your case is) taking advantage of that. My own LTR (married almost 41 years, been together 43) has suffered greatly because of exactly that. 

Apparently you don't have kids. Be very grateful for that. You likely have a very tough choice to make, because I doubt that he has much empathy for you nor is it likely he will develop it. You have to understand what it means, this idea that privacy and boundaries have been vague at best for him, and that he's used your trust against your marriage.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

WOW! His relationship with this woman is completely INAPPROPRIATE to say the least. He went out for drinks with her and spent the night?? They totally slept together. And he is putting her before you. He does not respect you at all. If you want to salvage this relationship, he needs to end any and all contact immediately. YOU also need to stand your ground and make sure he respects this boundary. If he continues with her, he clearly doesn't care for you... you need to GO, as soon as possible, and never look back. No one deserves this treatment.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

GC1234 said:


> WOW! His relationship with this woman is completely INAPPROPRIATE to say the least. He went out for drinks with her and spent the night?? * They totally slept together. *And he is putting her before you. He does not respect you at all. If you want to salvage this relationship, he needs to end any and all contact immediately. YOU also need to stand your ground and make sure he respects this boundary. If he continues with her, he clearly doesn't care for you... you need to GO, as soon as possible, and never look back. No one deserves this treatment.


It doesn't matter if they slept together or not. No spouse should ever put the other in a situation where they'd even have to ask the question. It's that simple. It's actually a responsibility of each spouse to be proactive and not be in a situation where such thoughts could come up.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@EmStacey he is not husband material. See a solicitor.


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## lj2932 (Jul 21, 2020)

> You could put a VAR (voice-activated recorder) in the car if he drives, or wherever he studies in the apartment/home.


Wouldn't recommend doing this! You can be prosecuted for stalking in the UK; there was a man a few years ago who got a suspended prison sentence for putting a GPS tracker on his wife's car.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

lj2932 said:


> Wouldn't recommend doing this! You can be prosecuted for stalking in the UK; there was a man a few years ago who got a suspended prison sentence for putting a GPS tracker on his wife's car.


That's why you don't get caught and don't tell the unfaithful spouse how you got the information.


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## lj2932 (Jul 21, 2020)

Not suggesting for a moment it's a good idea to tell them where you got your info!!  You'd have to hope they didn't find the device by themselves. It's a risk, is all I'm saying.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

lj2932 said:


> Wouldn't recommend doing this! You can be prosecuted for stalking in the UK; there was a man a few years ago who got a suspended prison sentence for putting a GPS tracker on his wife's car.


At some point truth may come with a price or risk attached. Like so many things, it's a risk/reward scenario. Having clarity in situation like this might be worth a bit of risk. And, as others have said, you don't need to (and wouldn't want to) divulge how you got the information. There is much strategic advantage to be gained from someone not having a clue how you know about things.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I think this is often what happens when you meet and marry too young. I know when I was in my later 20s, all the guys I knew that were about my age or a couple years younger that married their high school sweethearts were headed for divorce. They mostly grew in different directions. Because you know, people don't reach maturity until mid-to late 20s, really. The part of their brain that can predict consequences is still forming until then, and it can certainly make a difference, not to mention just that many years of marriage at any age can lose its allure. 

I mean, you were on the right track asking him if you did the same thing, how would he feel. But the problem is he knows you're not about to do that. But if you did, it would probably just be his excuse to leave the marriage. 

Friendships are fine, but in most instances, the spouse should be present. If there is some reason the spouse isn't invited, something isn't right. Maybe you should invite this girl to dinner at your house and see how they act together, but it sounds pretty chummy to me. The fact she's bi might keep her from lighting on her long, though.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

He love you? Ha! his is not real love. i doubt he knows what real love is.

everyone is right on here. please wake up and kick this bachelor-ladies-man-lover boy masquerading as a husband to the curb.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Casual Observer said:


> It doesn't matter if they slept together or not. No spouse should ever put the other in a situation where they'd even have to ask the question. It's that simple. It's actually a responsibility of each spouse to be proactive and not be in a situation where such thoughts could come up.


Well maybe it matters to the OP. Seems to want to reconcile, but maybe it's a deal breaker for her...maybe not. Obviously the spouse shouldn't put the other in that situation, but here they are, in that situation.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

GC1234 said:


> Well maybe it matters to the OP. Seems to want to reconcile, but maybe it's a deal breaker for her...maybe not. Obviously the spouse shouldn't put the other in that situation, but here they are, in that situation.


Which is why I supported the idea of a VAR.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

EmStacey said:


> Yesterday he got a text from her saying she had broken up with her girlfriend (she's bisexual) and was feeling rubbish. He offered to go round to hers to see how she was and help her with a presentation she has to do on zoom for monday.
> 
> He asked me if I minded him going round to hers as he was worried about her due to her mental health problems. I said that I would never stop him doing anything but it makes me sad that he wants to go and see other women - I would rather he didnt. I also said how would he feel if I did the same with a man and he said he would feel really uncomfortable but really appreciated how 'strong' I am about this.


Sorry, but you are allowing yourself to be played.

The various scenarios where you have expressed that you would never stop him doing anything - but would rather he didn't - is being taken as the green light. Despite how he would feel if the scenarios were flipped, he continues to behave how he wants. Okay, so one cannot control the other, and maybe this pattern has been set between you for a while. However, you can let him know what is and isn't cool with you anymore - and know clearly within yourself what you're wiling to do if this is disregarded. 

Just the above quoted - if I expressed to my husband that his actions to comfort a female friend (and, recently singled, as well as the overnighter) made me sad and I would rather he didn't. If he called me 'strong' and went anyway, well, it's likely my usually calm and stable demeanor would feel trampled on enough that I'd consider not even being there when he got back home. And sorry, if I was really revved up, I'd probably leave a note like 'I'm strong enough to know I deserve better than this b*s' ....but hey, that's a hypothetical. You need to know what is acceptable with you.

In the mean-time (((( virtual hugs ))))


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

You both have little to compare a committed relationship to. You may have been one and onlys and he is testing the waters on what else might be available. Otherwise, he is getting a taste of what it will be like when he has 'outgrown' you--"we just don't have that much in common any more."

IMO: this relationship is so one-sided, it is about to tilt. He sees you as in lurve with him, dedicated, and proud. While he is becoming more worldly, cosmopolitan, and valuable to others.

You must be stronger--if you are such a beautiful and loveable caretaker, there are lots of guys looking for a wife that they act like they appreciate. Never be afraid to set acceptable boundaries and follow them. You asked for advice. Follow it.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

It was not okay for him to have a drink with a female co-worker and certainly not right for him to stay the night with her. I feel the "sleeping on the couch" was a lie. Painting the toenails? That seems really off the wall. I am sorry but you are being lied to and manipulated.


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## StartingOverHopeful (May 3, 2018)

I'm so sorry you are going through this, but your intuition is right. Something is very wrong here.
To me, it seems like he's on his way to having an affair, although they may have already been intimate. Fact is, it does not matter...his mind is with her, so it's just a matter of time.

Sit him down and tell him, "I'm not sure what you thought about why affairs happen, but they don't just happen because people are unhappy and go looking for them. They happen because people don't know how easy it is to slip into one when they don't keep walls up around their marriage to protect it. They happen because people can feel attraction to just about anybody who meets their emotional needs and is attractive. It's not rocket science. To protect our commitment and our 8 year history of love and dedication to one another, we need to put up walls around our relationship. I don't want to be hurt but what you are doing puts our marriage at risk. You risk hurting me." Then just BE QUIET. See where he goes from there. If he defends himself you know there is no hope. Nobody in love and dedicated to a marriage would respond to those words by being defensive. He knows what he is doing is not good-husband behavior but he needs you to call him out for what he is doing. If he has a moral compass, he will think long and hard about what you are saying. If he just wants to act like he is entitled to attention from other women, he will argue with you.

Wishing you the best honey!


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

This whole affair shellacs me.

It does make sense to a pained degree.

This new woman, the 'coy' worker, she is repeating her past behavior with her former female partner.

As partners, she likely washed the others hair, brushed and dried it.

She scrubbed the others back in the shower.

Later, while on the couch she did pedicures for the other, to include painting finger and toe nails.
She was likely the 'sub' and she catered to the 'dom'. 

This is the way she shows her love. 

She may  be a novice around a penis. Next time he returns from her place, see if she has trimmed nicely his groin hair. See if he now has a 'runway' and if she has applied 'blush' to his dangling fuselage.

Just Sayin'


_The Typist-_


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## m.t.t (Oct 5, 2016)

I agree with the others, the painting of the toenails is very intimate if not flirtatious. It almost feels like she marked her territory. That's the bit of info that had me saying what! No!

You are young, I take it you have no children? Just say no to this. You told him you were not comfortable then he went anyway. Find your backbone and your strength and remove yourself from this now. He is disrespecting you big time. Afair or no afair this man is an ass hat.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Omg no no no. This is SO inappropriate it's just ridiculous. 

His co worker is a hussie, don't get me wrong, but keep your eye on the ball - your husband is the real skank here. He's the one who's betraying you and walking all over you.

You need to grow a backbone darling girl, no married person has any business spending the night with anyone but their spouse, let alone someone of the opposite sex. Omfg.

Tell him in no uncertain terms that YOU are not prepared to stay married to someone who openly dates other women. If he kicks up a stink, there you have it. If he's shocked at your display of self respect, all the better and the two of you can negotiate between the two of you what is and isn't appropriate.


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## examp (Aug 6, 2020)

It is not OK. But I am sure you knew that and still stick by him. You suppose I think he will always stay with you and perhaps one day give up on the others. Since no one knows him here and you know him best you think it is possible whatever anyone says on here. I think you should be asking your mutual friends who also know him this question.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Casual Observer said:


> Which is why I supported the idea of a VAR.


That's fine, I never challenged your idea. I would do the same (put a VAR in).


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## EmStacey (Aug 8, 2020)

Thank you all for your comments. It’s honestly a relief to hear that my gut feeling isn’t wrong. But what should I do now? Is this enough for divorce or something to sit and work through?
Again as I write this I can see I’m worried about overreacting and being accused of not trying to make the marriage work if I put my foot down and say it’s over.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Your husband is clearly dating another woman and it seems having some kind of affair with her. So yes, this is enough to justify a divorce.

Keep in mind that if you confront him, he is most likely going to deny the affair and try to turn it on you, saying that you are being jealous, controlling, etc. So you need to be ready for all this when you confront him. The very fact that he stayed a night at her house and she painted his toe nails is enough. Add to that his stating to her that she's on his mind. 

What do you want to do at this point? Do you want to just divorce him and move on? Or do you want to try to recover your marriage if he agrees to end the affair? My impression is that you are unsure what you want at this point except that you want him to end the affair. It's no unusual for a betrayed spouse to be unsure of the path forward at this point in the situation. That's ok.

You will need to tell him that this relationship is inappropriate and that if he wants to remain married to you he needs to end the relationship and contact with her now. If he gives you a hard time, tries turning it on you, denies the affair, just tell him that you are filing for divorce. Don't argue with him. Don't give him the chance to twist this around on you.

There is a good book that gives a good plan on how to move forward at this point. It would benefit you to read it before you confront him. Of course you can also talk with us here for support. But the book as a lot of detail, more than we can give you on this site.

*Not "Just Friends": Rebuilding Trust and Recovering Your Sanity After Infidelity* by Shirley P. Glass


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## lj2932 (Jul 21, 2020)

EmStacey said:


> Thank you all for your comments. It’s honestly a relief to hear that my gut feeling isn’t wrong. But what should I do now? Is this enough for divorce or something to sit and work through?
> Again as I write this I can see I’m worried about overreacting and being accused of not trying to make the marriage work if I put my foot down and say it’s over.


You need to realise that you don't need a "good enough" reason, or proof of anything to end a relationship, even a marriage. He's trampled all over what I assume (hope) are your boundaries, THAT'S good enough. Who is going to accuse you of not trying hard enough? Him? Well, he would say that wouldn't he, because he doesn't want you looking at the fact that he is actually the one who isn't trying to make it work. If you don't put your foot down, do you imagine things will improve? No.

Trust me, I know how hard it is to make that stand. But you're so young, I think I'm right in thinking you don't have kids, or own property? You could just cut your losses, walk away and find someone who actually respects you.


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## EmStacey (Aug 8, 2020)

lj2932 said:


> Trust me, I know how hard it is to make that stand. But you're so young, I think I'm right in thinking you don't have kids, or own property? You could just cut your losses, walk away and find someone who actually respects you.


We don’t have kids but have bought a flat. Of course, the deposit was all my money... This is probably one of the main reasons for my hesitation. The flat is in both of our names so I assume that means they are entitled to half the profit of the sale?
I was aware of this when we bought the property but at the time never thought I would be in this situation. I feel he doesn’t deserve a single penny of the deposit as his PhD funding barely covers any of our spendings. As the main source of income I pay for mortgage, gas, electric, council tax, ground rent, building maintenance etc. But I’m not sure what leg I have to stand on (other than moral decency) to stop him taking half of everything we own.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@EmStacey see a solicitor for advice on these matters.


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## lj2932 (Jul 21, 2020)

You need proper legal advice about the finances. I'd arrange this asap as you haven't been married very long, so you may find you leave with what you came into the marriage with. But see a solicitor.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

EmStacey said:


> We don’t have kids but have bought a flat. Of course, the deposit was all my money... This is probably one of the main reasons for my hesitation. The flat is in both of our names so I assume that means they are entitled to half the profit of the sale?
> I was aware of this when we bought the property but at the time never thought I would be in this situation. I feel he doesn’t deserve a single penny of the deposit as his PhD funding barely covers any of our spendings. As the main source of income I pay for mortgage, gas, electric, council tax, ground rent, building maintenance etc. But I’m not sure what leg I have to stand on (other than moral decency) to stop him taking half of everything we own.


As the others have said, you need to talk to a solicitor about the financial aspects of this. 

If you can show that you paid the deposit out of your own separate asset/savings, you might be able to get that back and then the two of you split any equity that is more than your deposit.


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## examp (Aug 6, 2020)

You now sound rather different. You seem sure you want to split but are not sure if it is the right thing and how it will turn out. As others have said only a solicitor can tell you or citizens advice. I dont know why he should get a share in the equity if he put absolutely nothing in it. Out of interest are you really sure he would get his PHD. I cant see any 'moral' decency on his part so why should you have.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

EmStacey said:


> Thank you all for your comments. It’s honestly a relief to hear that my gut feeling isn’t wrong. But what should I do now? Is this enough for divorce or something to sit and work through?
> Again as I write this I can see I’m worried about overreacting and being accused of not trying to make the marriage work if I put my foot down and say it’s over.


What happened after he returned from consoling her?

While I agree about the rationale is enough to divorce if you wanted - and you need to know what you want - my view is to take a breath for a moment, now. You have been part of this pattern of accepting his actions for a little while. Pause. Are you willing to have an assertive discussion about what is and isn't acceptable to you anymore? Assertive in terms of knowing what you're about, not being swayed, being cool calm and collected while stating what you need (and potentially for this to work between you, if that is an option for you).

Having that dialogue doesn't mean you can't still seek legal advice (sorry, is it advise/advice? always my sticking point that word) and continue to move on from the relationship. However, I think you owe it to yourself to assert what you need, regardless of outcome. Not in a 'I don't want to tell you want to do' way... but in a 'this is what I need from my partner' kinda way. Some others here might have suggestions on the wording. Basically, you're not giving him the leverage of a decision; instead you're letting him know what you stand for. If you find it tricky to assert yourself, just consider that you're thinking of exiting the relationship, and therefore, have nothing to lose by trying out a new voice for yourself. Best wishes to you, kitty-cat.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Further thoughts, and others might disagree, but I also wouldn’t be mentioning moving on from the relationship unless you really mean it.

I can be quite blunt in my wording, so I’d be inclined to say along the lines of ‘I need this.... explain... which means cutting that crap out.’

As indicated by other members, his response will be telling. I feel you need to stand your ground regardless of outcome - for your own benefit.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

EmStacey said:


> Thank you all for your comments. It’s honestly a relief to hear that my gut feeling isn’t wrong. But what should I do now? Is this enough for divorce or something to sit and work through?
> Again as I write this I can see I’m worried about overreacting and being accused of not trying to make the marriage work if I put my foot down and say it’s over.


at the very least, you need to enforce your boundaries. You are allowing him to do these things, when you don't want him to. You need to make abundantly clear what you want and what you don't want him doing. If he tests you, and he will, that's when you need to put on your big girl boots and jet out of there. Are you prepared for that? It seems to be the only way he'll take you seriously I think.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

examp said:


> You now sound rather different. You seem sure you want to split but are not sure if it is the right thing and how it will turn out. As others have said only a solicitor can tell you or citizens advice. I dont know why he should get a share in the equity if he put absolutely nothing in it. Out of interest are you really sure he would get his PHD. I cant see any 'moral' decency on his part so why should you have.


I would strongly advise against CAB. They are not known for being discrete and some of them do not take training of volunteers very seriously. And this was said to me by a CAB regional director, who added: "Sadly, some CAB branches are nothing but 'tea and gossip clubs' and aren't very much use."


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

you do not have to make a decision about divorce right away. But you certainly need to talk to him and state your boundaries from now on. What he does with it - will tell you where his priorities are.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Put your foot down, and how he responds there after will tell you whether he really love you or not.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

EmStacey said:


> We don’t have kids but have bought a flat. Of course, the deposit was all my money... This is probably one of the main reasons for my hesitation. The flat is in both of our names so I assume that means they are entitled to half the profit of the sale?


In the future, don't finance deadbeats.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Shiomi said:


> _*Why is it only your responsibility to make the marriage work? I thought it takes 2..*_



Apparently, carrying this fool financially by providing HIS half of the downpayment for the house AND having to fix the marriage *since he's a cheaiting POS* are both _her_ responsibility. 🤪


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## examp (Aug 6, 2020)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Apparently, carrying this fool financially by providing HIS half of the downpayment for the house AND having to fix the marriage *since he's a cheaiting POS* are both _her_ responsibility. 🤪


She didnt provide his half but her own.


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## examp (Aug 6, 2020)

EmStacey said:


> Thank you all for your comments. It’s honestly a relief to hear that my gut feeling isn’t wrong. But what should I do now? Is this enough for divorce or something to sit and work through?
> Again as I write this I can see I’m worried about overreacting and being accused of not trying to make the marriage work if I put my foot down and say it’s over.


It is certainly enough. I imagine you think that once he has his PHD (which I would not be so certain about) and has to start contributing, he may change. I can only say people rarely do. Unless you want your marriage to carry on as it is, then you know what you have to do..


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

examp said:


> She didnt provide his half but her own.


Please re-read the relevant post. She paid for* all* of the deposit.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

examp said:


> She didnt provide his half but her own.


She said she paid the deposit for both of them:



EmStacey said:


> the deposit was all my money...


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> About 90% of medical student/residents divorce their spouse once they have completed their education.


Not exactly. They get divorced, but it is often the other spouse who wants divorce, as the years of medical school and residency require a lot of hours, and marriage often doesn't survive that.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

EmStacey said:


> We don’t have kids but have bought a flat. Of course, the deposit was all my money... This is probably one of the main reasons for my hesitation. The flat is in both of our names so I assume that means they are entitled to half the profit of the sale?
> I was aware of this when we bought the property but at the time never thought I would be in this situation. I feel he doesn’t deserve a single penny of the deposit as his PhD funding barely covers any of our spendings. As the main source of income I pay for mortgage, gas, electric, council tax, ground rent, building maintenance etc. But I’m not sure what leg I have to stand on (other than moral decency) to stop him taking half of everything we own.


Having bought a house in the UK in 1995 with my then husband, I learned that there were 2 types of shared ownership (I forget the legal names)

1. 50/50 ownership no matter how much money either party put in to the deposit or mortgage payments.

2. proportional ownership based on the relative amount either party put in.

My husband and I got our choice in writing as we finalized the purchase. Women need to be vocal about ownership. One ex SIL moved into my brother's house and never bothered about ownership or finances. When they divorced, SIL moved out with her bags and no share of the house.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

WandaJ said:


> Not exactly. They get divorced, but it is often the other spouse who wants divorce, as the years of medical school and residency require a lot of hours, and marriage often doesn't survive that.


That was the basis of a 60 Minutes episode. I think it was the husband who wanted out after med school. But the wife showed where she missed additional income following her husband and working at whatever she could find. This was in CA. So the laws were changed so that alimony could reflect the asset that an education grants the degree holder.


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## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> I would strongly advise against CAB. They are not known for being discrete and some of them do not take training of volunteers very seriously. And this was said to me by a CAB regional director, who added: "Sadly, some CAB branches are nothing but 'tea and gossip clubs' and aren't very much use."


For those of us in the States, what is/are CAB? They sound like a real pain in the neck.


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## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> @EmStacey see a solicitor for advice on these matters.


YES, @EmStacey, see a solicitor ASAP. He or she can provide you with a reasonably accurate estimate of what is likely to happen if you file for divorce (how long it will take, how much it will cost, what you'll end up with). 

Get a recommendation from a trusted family member, friend, or colleague. 

Keep this private. Don't tell your spouse "I'm seeing a solicitor." 

Keep _everything _private until you're ready to act (whatever path you choose).


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## examp (Aug 6, 2020)

MattMatt said:


> Please re-read the relevant post. She paid for* all* of the deposit.


 I feel he doesn’t deserve a single penny of the deposit as his PhD funding barely covers any of our spendings. 
/QUOTE]

And imagine it did and he paid for all the 'spendings' it sounds like she thinks it would 'give' him part of the deposit which she herself paid.

CAB is in the UK for people to have free legal advice run by the councils. Citizens Advice Bureau.


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## lj2932 (Jul 21, 2020)

NextTimeAround said:


> Having bought a house in the UK in 1995 with my then husband, I learned that there were 2 types of shared ownership (I forget the legal names)
> 
> 1. 50/50 ownership no matter how much money either party put in to the deposit or mortgage payments.
> 
> 2. proportional ownership based on the relative amount either party put in.


That's 1. joint tenants and 2. tenants in common. However, courts can deviate from a 50/50 division if it is fair and reasonable to do so. The factors they will take into account can be complicated which is why she needs legal advice.


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## lj2932 (Jul 21, 2020)

> CAB is in the UK for people to have free legal advice run by the councils. Citizens Advice Bureau.


Yes, think about getting legal advice from a group of amateur volunteers who may or may not have understood their (minimal) training well. They're often sort of the advice equivalent to the front line tech support that you get on the phone, the ones who the extent of their diagnostic abilities is getting you to turn it off and back on again and see if that helps.


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## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

lj2932 said:


> Yes, think about getting legal advice from a group of amateur volunteers who may or may not have understood their (minimal) training well. They're often sort of the advice equivalent to the front line tech support that you get on the phone, the ones who the extent of their diagnostic abilities is getting you to turn it off and back on again and see if that helps.


OMG that sounds like an absolute disaster for British people _in general_, but an absolute boon to any British people who decide they want to screw with other British people for fun. 

We do a lot of things wrongly and stupidly in the states, but I'm glad we don't have anything like that.


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## lj2932 (Jul 21, 2020)

TomNebraska said:


> We do a lot of things wrongly and stupidly in the states, but I'm glad we don't have anything like that.


They CAN be useful if your problem is a pretty simple one, like the kind of thing anyone with any sense would honestly just Google these days.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

> In November he went out for a drink with her and ended up staying the night. He said that he had missed the train home and I couldn't drive to get him as I had also had a drink. I said he should get a taxi but he didn't want to spend £60 to get home (he was about 17 miles away in the nearest city for decent bars).
> 
> *When he came home the next morning his toenails had been painted *


I can't believe that a married man would allow the painted toenails. You would have to sit straight for a few minutes ..... unless, of course,.......

This reminds me of John Lennon. When I think of the nasty things that Yoko Onon did to his wife Julie , in front of Lennon and while they were still marries, I can see why McCartney wants nothing to do with her.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

TomNebraska said:


> OMG that sounds like an absolute disaster for British people _in general_, but an absolute boon to any British people who decide they want to screw with other British people for fun.
> 
> We do a lot of things wrongly and stupidly in the states, but I'm glad we don't have anything like that.


We DO have something like that here --- it's called TAM!


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## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

jlg07 said:


> We DO have something like that here --- it's called TAM!


this is a Canadian site though; I blame them.


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