# My wife had an affair. Need advice.



## freeride376

About 2 months ago I caught my wife in a park with another man. She said that they were just friends. He was going through a divorce and she had just been there talking and trying to help. She agreed that this was very inappropriate and that she would stop this immediately and not let this happen again. This was really hard for me to believe but I eventually got over it and believed her.

I continued to live my life for about 2-3 more weeks. I was feeling like something was still not right so I checked our phone records and found that my wife had been calling and texting the same number several times a day. I confronted her. At first she said she didn't know what the number was. She eventually admitted that it was the same guy in the park. My wife goes to college and has a class with this guy. She claimed that they were just friends and she just really likes talking to him. Nothing inappropriate was going on. I was really upset and really had a hard time believing this. I told her that even if nothing inappropriate was going on that I was not ok with them talking like this. She said that she would end it and stop talking to him. And of course I believed her.

So things seemed like they got better and I was actually believing that it had ended. 3 days go by. I was getting suspicious again and checked her facebook account and saw that they were still communicating through facebook. I saw a few messages where he would say that he "loved her" This hurt very much. I confronted my wife once again. I freaked out at her and called her many bad names and told her that I wanted a divorce. She got very upset and said that she was really sorry. She doesn't know why she keeps communicating with him. She told me that she didn't want me to leave and she wanted to make things right. She said that she never said that she loved him and nothing more than just talking has ever happened. It took me a few days but I finally calmed down and believed that it was finally over this time. I felt like I finally got the message across to her and she would stop.

A few more days pass and I get suspicious once again. I wake up around 3:00am and get her phone while she is sleeping. I check her phone out and realize that they have still been talking. She was texting his phone with her email account. She had said multiple time that she "loved him" and he had said it back. I was able to read the entire discussion. It made me sick. She would say that she missed him so much and counts down the days when she can see him again. I confronted her once again. This time it was really bad. I told her I was leaving for sure this time. She was very upset and said sorry over and over. She couldn't explain why she would tell him that she loved him and other things that she wrote.

During this time we had a vacation planned together with our 4 year old daughter. She ended up not going but ended up staying in her parents house for about a week. While we were away from each other we talked a lot and I had it in my mind that I was leaving her. During this time she admitted that she kissed him a handful of times in his car at a Target Parking lot. She said it never went farther that making out. They didn't touch each other inappropriately or anything like that. But they had been making out every week for the last 4 or 5 weeks.

I was crushed to hear this. I never thought that this would happen to me. Our marriage was good. We were not really struggling or anything like that. We have been trying to get pregnant for about 2 years unsuccessfully. She blamed this fact as to why she had been struggling calling it a "mid life crises" She claimed that she never meant for this affair to happen but it just did through small baby steps. She said that she loved me and wants her family. Not him.

After I caught her the 4th time I called this guys up and chewed him out and threatened to beat him to a bloody pulp if he ever makes contact with my wife again. I made my wife stop school and she said that she called him one last time and ended it.

I have noticed a change in her since this last time. I feel like I finally have my wife back. She acted different during this whole thing and now she seem like her old self. I want to believe that she is really done this time but I am having a hard time really believing it. Each time I caught her she got better at hiding it. She opened up several different emails and different apps including snapchat to hide what she was doing.

She now says that she does not use any of these things anymore and she is done. For sure this time. She has on multiple times bared her soul to me reassuring its over. That she wants me and her family. She wants us to be a family.

Im struggling with a lot of things right now. We are currently living with each other and our daughter. I am trying to get over this. Its been about 2 weeks since the last contact they supposivly have had. I have not been able to find any more evidence of them talking.

*I had to catch her in the act 4 different times. Each time she would lie to me and say it was over just for me to find that it was still going on. (she even lied about them making out until the very end)

*She did this while we were doing In Uterine Insemination (IUI). (we were really trying to have a baby and spending a lot of money to do so)

*She made out with the guy on several different occasions. (claims they never had sex)

*While this was all going on she continued to have sex with me and would even go on dates with me to assure me this was all over. (she was very convincing) Part of the reason I believed her each time.

I just feel like she is a liar. I don't know if I will ever be able to trust her again. I feel hurt that she would do this to me. She can't even explain why and she says she is very ashamed of herself.

She really wants me to stay but I just don't know what to do. If we didn't have a 4 year old child I don't think I would stay. But I cant bare the idea of not raising my child and only seeing her every other weekend.

Need Advice


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## bryanp

Your wife has no problem lying to your face over and over again. I simply do not understand how you could ever trust her again. 4 times for God's sake. The fact that she tells you she has no idea why she kept doing this to you says all you need to hear. It is a matter of time before this starts up again in the future. If the roles were reversed I doubt that she would put up with such humiliation and disrespect from you so why are you accepting this?

If you do not respect yourself then who will?


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## jld

Did you tell her parents?


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## convert

they made out in the car every week for 4 or 5 weeks and only kissed?

she lied 4 + times when you caught her, she could be lying about "only kissing"

you might want to dig deeper about "only kissing", I believe she might be doing some trickle truth (TT) here

ask her for a poly and see what her reaction will be.

I am not a big fan of poly's but sometimes they get you a confession just by asking for one (not always right away and sometimes it takes right up to right before the test in the parking lot) aka a "parking lot confession".


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## Wolf1974

bryanp said:


> Your wife has no problem lying to your face over and over again. I simply do not understand how you could ever trust her again. 4 times for God's sake. The fact that she tells you she has no idea why she kept doing this to you says all you need to hear. It is a matter of time before this starts up again in the future. If the roles were reversed I doubt that she would put up with such humiliation and disrespect from you so why are you accepting this?
> 
> *If you do not respect yourself then who will?[*/QUOTE]
> 
> Spot on. Sometimes we have to see the big picture but it's hard when you're part of that picture. OP ask youserself this question. If your brother,dad, son, came to you and described this situation he was going through, what would your advice be? I think you know what you have to do but the hardest thing for many of us men to do is admit that something is wrong and it CANT be fixed. You can't fix a liar/cheat
> 
> Sorry you're here
> 
> You're not alone


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## ConanHub

Read up on the stickies for newbies. You did a lot of things wrong but didn't know any better. She had sex with this idiot, better than 99% chance.

Read up on exposure, NC letters and affair recovery books.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## G.J.

So sad your here

You really need to try to recover ALL text and communication she may have sent and isn't deleted

Facebook is easy as long as she didn't perm delete the messages

go to her facebook page and then find security tab
then ask for archive
it will be sent to her email address (you should have all her passwords for all her communication by this stage)
Just unrar it and you will see all the history of her conversations with POSOM

Also see Weightlifters post what you need to do going forward on surveillance

She is likely still lying to extent of affair

If everything fails as a last resort you can go full on and try 'nuclear option' which has worked for others and myself but as it relies on bluffing don't go to that stage until everything else has been exhausted


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## convert

jld said:


> Did you tell her parents?


good question.
exposure is key in helping to kill the affairs and keeping them dead.

it worked for me


......so far


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## alte Dame

Your wayward wife's behavior is sadly textbook.

She is still lying to you. They most assuredly had sex. Sorry.

If the sex is the straw that breaks the camel's back, then you need to confirm what we all know here.

I would restart investigations. People here will help you do that. You sound like a strong, resolute man and you will need to stay strong and determined to do what is right for you and your life here.

This was a full-blown physical affair, complete with 'I love yous' and sex. If you stay with her, the truth of that has to be clear for you.


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## Mr.Fisty

I suggest getting some emotional distance from your wife. Your daughter will be healthy as long as your both stable as parents. You do not need a marriage for that.

My guess would be that the both of them being intimate with their conversation, built a bond between them. She went into the infatuation stage where her judgement becomes severely dimmed, and she was mostly acting on hormones and neurotransmitters. She lied in order to get that fix that she gets from romantic love. She lacked the boundaries skills to put up her emotional guard, and when the OM was vulnerable with her, she developed feelings for him.

Your choice is to do what is best for you. If you cannot continue a relationship with your wife, it will be wiser to end the marriage. You need to gain some clarity on what you can and cannot live with. It will take years to overcome the hurt and betrayal, and there is going to be doubt on what really occurred.

You will go through an emotional ringer, and she might change her habits and behavior or not, that is not guaranteed. There is no absolutes in this. You do not and will not have any fore sight to predict how things will turn out if you go on with her.

In gaining some emotional stability, and looking it at a more logical side, you will be able to make a decision that is healthy for you. Making decisions with extreme levels of emotions will cloud your judgement.


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## PBDad

Read through the many threads here. Also, mentioned in many places is a book I just got. Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011.

Read. Learn.


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## NoChoice

OP,
Isn't it fascinating that trust can be as strong as titanium and yet as fragile as tissue paper. Your wife has severely damaged your trust in her and you must take that into consideration when making any plans for a future with her. I completely understand about wanting to be there for your daughter and I commend you for that but you need to be sure you can live with the lack of trust and all that entails or you are merely delaying the inevitable.

The probability that your wife can/will change is very low and you need to know that going in. She has established a pattern in your mind and convincing you otherwise will be a daunting task that she most likely can/will not be motivated enough to accomplish. Things may get better but your trust, as you knew it previously, is gone unless she takes some extraordinary steps to restore it and that is highly improbable and maybe even impossible for her.

So know that whatever you decide to do, your life will be forever altered. Also know that in order to have any chance going forward she must adopt a policy of complete transparency and total honesty. From what you've posted thus far, I do not feel that she is currently doing either. Good fortune to you.


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## Thor

Get the book "After the Affair" by Janis Spring. You both need to read it. It will help.

Reconciliation requires she do a lot of work to prove she is worthy of trust, or to say it another way she is currently un-trustworthy. It is up to her to fix that. You can't do it for her.

You should put a keylogger on the computer without her knowledge. This is to verify she is No-Contact with the other man. You could put a VAR in her car to ensure she is not calling him. She must give you every account log in so you can verify what is going on. She must hand over her phone instantly upon your request. Any violation is an instant divorce. She has to know that.

Have her write out a detailed timeline of her affair. Everything, as much detail as she can remember. Dates, places, what went on, who else was there. Keep in mind her memory is not perfect, so she may get a few things a bit wrong, so don't go ballistic if there are minor errors. But it should be substantially correct and it should reflect the true nature of their relationship.

Talk to an atty to get a basic understanding of the legal landscape where you are. Atty's will usually give a free 10 to 30 minute consult where you can get your basic questions answered.

Don't have sex with her until you find out if infidelity is a factor in divorce where you live. You've had sex already but if there are new revelations this can become important. If infidelity is a factor, having sex after you know about it might be considered forgiveness as far as the court is concerned, and you would lose the legal advantage.

Don't get her pregnant!!! At this point you are on a 2 or 3 year recovery track if the marriage can be saved. It will take that long to get over this affair. D is always a significant possibility until then.


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## Thor

Get yourself tested for STDs. At the least get tested for HIV and Herpes. Those are blood tests taken 90 days from exposure, so you probably have to wait another month or 2 on those. For men, the other STDs almost always have symptoms, so no need for tests without symptoms.

Since she admits to kissing, you might want to insist she get fully tested for STDs. Oral infections are becoming quite common with the increase in casual oral sex. Chlamydia, gonorhea, and herpes are now being found as oral infections.

Having her tested is for health reasons for you and your child, but also to impress upon her the seriousness of what she has done.


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## ScrambledEggs

freeride376 said:


> About 2 months ago I caught my wife in a park with another man. *She said that they were just friends.* He was going through a divorce and she had just been there talking and trying to help. She agreed that this was very inappropriate and that *she would stop this immediately *and not let this happen again. This was really hard for me to believe but I eventually got over it and believed her.
> 
> I continued to live my life for about 2-3 more weeks. I was feeling like something was still not right so I checked our phone records and found that my wife had been calling and texting the same number several times a day. I confronted her. At first *she said she didn't know what the number was.* She eventually admitted that it was the same guy in the park. My wife goes to college and has a class with this guy. *She claimed that they were just friends* and *she just really likes talking to him.* *Nothing inappropriate was going on*. I was really upset and really had a hard time believing this. I told her that even if nothing inappropriate was going on that I was not ok with them talking like this. *She said that she would end it and stop talking to him.* And of course I believed her.
> 
> So things seemed like they got better and I was actually believing that it had ended. 3 days go by. I was getting suspicious again and checked her facebook account and saw that they were still communicating through facebook. I saw a few messages where he would say that he "loved her" This hurt very much. I confronted my wife once again. I freaked out at her and called her many bad names and told her that I wanted a divorce. She got very upset and *said that she was really sorry.* She *doesn't know why she keeps communicating with him*. She told me that she didn't want me to leave and she wanted to make things right. *She said that she never said that she loved him *and *nothing more than just talking has ever happened.* It took me a few days but I finally calmed down and believed that it was finally over this time. I felt like I finally got the message across to her and she would stop.
> 
> A few more days pass and I get suspicious once again. I wake up around 3:00am and get her phone while she is sleeping. I check her phone out and realize that they have still been talking. She was texting his phone with her email account. She had said multiple time that she "loved him" and he had said it back. I was able to read the entire discussion. It made me sick. She would say that she missed him so much and counts down the days when she can see him again. I confronted her once again. This time it was really bad. I told her I was leaving for sure this time. She was very upset *and said sorry over and over.* She couldn't *explain why she would tell him that she loved him and other things that she wrote.*
> 
> During this time we had a vacation planned together with our 4 year old daughter. She ended up not going but* ended up staying in her parents house for about a week.* While we were away from each other we talked a lot and I had it in my mind that I was leaving her. During this time she admitted that she kissed him a handful of times in his car at a Target Parking lot.* She said it never went farther that making out*. They didn't touch each other *inappropriately or anything like that*. But they had been making out every week for the last 4 or 5 weeks.
> 
> I was crushed to hear this. I never thought that this would happen to me. Our marriage was good. We were not really struggling or anything like that. We have been trying to get pregnant for about 2 years unsuccessfully. She blamed this fact as to why she had been struggling calling it a "mid life crises" She claimed that she never meant for this affair to happen but it just did through small baby steps. She said that *she loved me and wants her family. Not him.*
> 
> After I caught her the 4th time I called this guys up and chewed him out and threatened to beat him to a bloody pulp if he ever makes contact with my wife again. I made my wife stop school and she said that she called him one last time and ended it.
> 
> I have noticed a change in her since this last time. I feel like I finally have my wife back. She acted different during this whole thing and now she seem like her old self. I want to believe that she is really done this time but I am having a hard time really believing it. Each time I caught her she got better at hiding it. She opened up several different emails and different apps including snapchat to hide what she was doing.
> 
> She now says that she does not use any of these things anymore and she is done. For sure this time. She has on multiple times bared her soul to me reassuring its over. That she wants me and her family. She wants us to be a family.
> 
> Im struggling with a lot of things right now. We are currently living with each other and our daughter. I am trying to get over this. Its been about 2 weeks since the last contact they supposivly have had. I have not been able to find any more evidence of them talking.
> 
> *I had to catch her in the act 4 different times. Each time she would lie to me and say it was over just for me to find that it was still going on. (she even lied about them making out until the very end)
> 
> *She did this while we were doing In Uterine Insemination (IUI). (we were really trying to have a baby and spending a lot of money to do so)
> 
> *She made out with the guy on several different occasions. (claims they never had sex)
> 
> *While this was all going on she continued to have sex with me and would even go on dates with me to assure me this was all over. (she was very convincing) Part of the reason I believed her each time.
> 
> I just feel like she is a liar. I don't know if I will ever be able to trust her again. I feel hurt that she would do this to me. She can't even explain why and she says she is very ashamed of herself.
> 
> She really wants me to stay but I just don't know what to do. If we didn't have a 4 year old child I don't think I would stay. But I cant bare the idea of not raising my child and only seeing her every other weekend.
> 
> Need Advice


Sorry you are going through this. I bolded all the lies your wife has told that are certain lies. Let that soak in. 

You have gained control of the situation but like rebuilding a country after war, it is easer to knock everything down than rebuild it. Give therapy a try IC/MC but be prepared to end it if you can't get past this. I have a similar story and one year, I have not over it and am getting on with life without her one year later than I should be. Good Luck.


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## arbitrator

* 4 times you say? So who is playing who for a fool?

Whether you know it or not, it greatly sounds as if your W is treating you as her "Plan B." Not quite ready to pull the trigger on you right now, but as soon as things got squared with her OM, then that's where you preeminently become yesterday's news!

When you picked up her cell and read all of those damning texts, that's where either I would have thrown her out of the house, or I would have left of my own accord with her cell phone in hand, to copy everything before handing it over to my divorce attorney!

And when you confronted the OM, did it ever cross your mind to inform his W or SO, greatly provided that he has one?

If you wife said "they only kissed" out in the Target parking lot, you can take it to the bank that they likely had full blown sexual relations ~ which preeminently means that you need to get your butt to your doctors office to have them check for the presence of STD's. It greatly makes me think that on the weekend that she spent "alone" from you at her parents house that she was doing something over there other than playing solitaire!

If you continue to listen to all of her lies and placations, she'll continue to do so until the cows come home, or until she's ready to finally ditch you in favor of "Plan A!"

Do "the 180" on her sorry lying a$$ and get with a good hard nosed family attorney who will go for the jugular, getting both you and your daughter away from her, and into a far more moral living environment!

Also read  No More Mr. Nice Guy by Dr. Robert Glover, and Not Just Friends by Dr. Shirley Glass.*


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## happy as a clam

Well, when you look at Scrambled Egg's post with all the lies bolded, it really illustrates how MUCH she was lying to you and how MANY lies she told.

Any rational person would have a very hard time trusting her again .


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## freeride376

jld said:


> Did you tell her parents?


Yes I did. They were crushed by the news. She comes from a very good family. I think me finally telling her parents had a lot to do why she finally stopped.


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## stevehowefan

Is there room for three people in your marriage? Do you genuinely believe they only "kissed?" Grown-ups don't just "kiss." They have sex. Most teenagers don't just "kiss." They have sex. If you have room for three people in your marriage, stay the course. If not, well, you have some thinking to do.


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## freeride376

G.J. said:


> So sad your here
> 
> You really need to try to recover ALL text and communication she may have sent and isn't deleted
> 
> Facebook is easy as long as she didn't perm delete the messages
> 
> go to her facebook page and then find security tab
> then ask for archive
> it will be sent to her email address (you should have all her passwords for all her communication by this stage)
> Just unrar it and you will see all the history of her conversations with POSOM
> 
> Also see Weightlifters post what you need to do going forward on surveillance
> 
> She is likely still lying to extent of affair
> 
> If everything fails as a last resort you can go full on and try 'nuclear option' which has worked for others and myself but as it relies on bluffing don't go to that stage until everything else has been exhausted


I have done all this. I was able to recover some of the messages but she had permanganate deleted everything. The little that I did see made me sick. A lot of "I love you" and "I miss you" They would secretly meet at a Target Parking Lot to see each other after school. She told him that she finds herself shopping at Target in hopes to see him. 

What is the "nuclear" option? I think im there.


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## Hardtohandle

This is going to get worse for you because sadly you do not actually have the courage to do what is needed.

Again I completely understand because I was in your shoes.. 

That being said I can tell you this. Do not make any promises you do not intend to keep.. So telling her you want a divorce means nothing if you don't do it.. 

You cry wolf enough times they realize that is all your doing.

Sadly I have to agree, you are going to have to steady yourself because more than kissing happened.. 

I would suggest you find out the whole REAL truth before you make any real decisions and even then, take some time before making any real decisions.. 

But you cannot continue this marriage with all these lies.. 

Again trust me, my Ex wife did the same thing to me.. She WILL get better, this WILL happen again if you both don't discover what really is the issue with her.. 

By all means DO NOT have another child with her right now.. PLEASE.... Children do not make things better, they make things worse when this is going on.. Its just another excuse why they can cheat.. JUST DON'T DO IT.. 

The ball is in your court right now.. She has no marriage rights atm.. DO NOT HAVE ANOTHER CHILD WITH THIS WOMAN...

BTW getting divorced does not mean that YOU get to see your daughter every other weekend.. Nothing is written in stone that the woman gets the child.. 

If you want to know the truth you will have to dig to find more out.. Only once you have any real truth will she confess it seems..

What did this man tell you when you called him ?.. 

Keep everything to this thread.. Do not start new threads... It makes easier for everyone to follow along and understand the big picture.. So posting a new thread she is bipolar doesn't help you for example..

But you need to stop wanting to believe her and realize you need the truth no matter how sh!tty it is.. 

Again been there done that.. I tell you all it does is makes it worse for you.. It fvcks you up mentally in the end.. Again trust me on this one..


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## freeride376

NoChoice said:


> OP,
> Isn't it fascinating that trust can be as strong as titanium and yet as fragile as tissue paper. Your wife has severely damaged your trust in her and you must take that into consideration when making any plans for a future with her. I completely understand about wanting to be there for your daughter and I commend you for that but you need to be sure you can live with the lack of trust and all that entails or you are merely delaying the inevitable.
> 
> The probability that your wife can/will change is very low and you need to know that going in. She has established a pattern in your mind and convincing you otherwise will be a daunting task that she most likely can/will not be motivated enough to accomplish. Things may get better but your trust, as you knew it previously, is gone unless she takes some extraordinary steps to restore it and that is highly improbable and maybe even impossible for her.
> 
> So know that whatever you decide to do, your life will be forever altered. Also know that in order to have any chance going forward she must adopt a policy of complete transparency and total honesty. From what you've posted thus far, I do not feel that she is currently doing either. Good fortune to you.


Thank you for your comment. So I do feel like she is being transparent and honest now. But I felt that way the last four times as well. The hardest part is each time i caught her she would get better at hiding it. She was terrible at first. Now she is really good. All it takes is for her to open another email account to continue communication with her. How will I know what email accounts she has? Its impossible. She could very easily continue this without me knowing. 

This time around I have not forgiven her. She is really struggling with this. I really feel that it is over. Am I so stupid? Even though I do feel that it is over, I don't know if I can forgive this time around and I haven't yet. She is actually on a trip with her sisters and parents. She will be gone about 10 days. This has given me some clarity.


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## CH

freeride376 said:


> Yes I did. They were crushed by the news. She comes from a very good family. I think me finally telling her parents had a lot to do why she finally stopped.


Bwahahahahahahahaha

Just kissing, no groping......ok.

parking lot = 1 person leaves the car there, then they drive off together and do cough*other things*cough.

I've seen it happen in our company parking lot 3 times now. We share the parking with another building that has ALOT of employees. Lady parks in the lot, walks around all suspicious, keeps looking around everywhere. Slowly walks to a car in the back, ALWAYS looking around. Meets up with a guy (who worked at that building) kiss, get in his car and drive away.

Couple of hours later, they return, she gets in her car, still looking around and leaves......

Yeah, they only just kissed in the parking lot then drove around for a couple of hours and TALKED.

BTW, it's not over by a long shot IMO. She's still in contact with him but just more careful now.


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## South Stand

freeride376 said:


> About 2 months ago I caught my wife in a park with another man. She said that they were just friends. He was going through a divorce and she had just been there talking and trying to help. She agreed that this was very inappropriate and that she would stop this immediately and not let this happen again. This was really hard for me to believe but I eventually got over it and believed her.
> 
> Need Advice


First of all, sorry you are here. That said I've found this site full a lot of useful information and insights that have helped me a lot.

Is he really going through a divorce? Find out and tell his wife. I did not tell the wife of my wife's affair partner. She eventually figured it out, but I regret not telling her straight away. 

I think someone else mentioned this, do her parents know? If not make it known. If she is any kind of a person, this may keep her honest. If she's not, it won't make any difference.


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## freeride376

Thor said:


> Get the book "After the Affair" by Janis Spring. You both need to read it. It will help.
> 
> Reconciliation requires she do a lot of work to prove she is worthy of trust, or to say it another way she is currently un-trustworthy. It is up to her to fix that. You can't do it for her.
> 
> You should put a keylogger on the computer without her knowledge. This is to verify she is No-Contact with the other man. You could put a VAR in her car to ensure she is not calling him. She must give you every account log in so you can verify what is going on. She must hand over her phone instantly upon your request. Any violation is an instant divorce. She has to know that.
> 
> Have her write out a detailed timeline of her affair. Everything, as much detail as she can remember. Dates, places, what went on, who else was there. Keep in mind her memory is not perfect, so she may get a few things a bit wrong, so don't go ballistic if there are minor errors. But it should be substantially correct and it should reflect the true nature of their relationship.
> 
> Talk to an atty to get a basic understanding of the legal landscape where you are. Atty's will usually give a free 10 to 30 minute consult where you can get your basic questions answered.
> 
> Don't have sex with her until you find out if infidelity is a factor in divorce where you live. You've had sex already but if there are new revelations this can become important. If infidelity is a factor, having sex after you know about it might be considered forgiveness as far as the court is concerned, and you would lose the legal advantage.
> 
> Don't get her pregnant!!! At this point you are on a 2 or 3 year recovery track if the marriage can be saved. It will take that long to get over this affair. D is always a significant possibility until then.


The problem with keylogger is that she hasn't done any of this on the computer. All of it happened on her Iphone. She just deletes everything after she is done. Texts, Phone call logs, even apps she uses. She will literally install an app, use it then delete the app. I caught a lot of it on our phone records. So now she doesn't call with her regular Verizon service. She can call through Facebook Instant Messenger or other various apps. She is good. Im telling you. It is getting to the point that it will be impossible to ever catch her again. No 
whatsoever. 

About the sex. I have already had sex with her twice since this all went down. I'm so stupid. I have been so depressed. So sad. Having sex with her seemed to be the only way I feel wanted and feel close. I know so stupid. In a way I think I did it as "marking my territory" or feeling like she was mine again. I'm so screwed up in the head right now.


----------



## GusPolinski

freeride376 said:


> The problem with keylogger is that she hasn't done any of this on the computer. All of it happened on her Iphone. She just deletes everything after she is done. Texts, Phone call logs, even apps she uses. She will literally install an app, use it then delete the app. I caught a lot of it on our phone records. So now she doesn't call with her regular Verizon service. She can call through Facebook Instant Messenger or other various apps. She is good. Im telling you.* It is getting to the point that it will be impossible to ever catch her again. No
> whatsoever.*


Not true. How transparent is she being w/ her phone? How about her social media and e-mail accounts? Do you have the e-mail address and password for her Apple iTunes/iCloud account?

Has she rebuked any requests for transparency?



freeride376 said:


> About the sex. I have already had sex with her twice since this all went down. I'm so stupid. I have been so depressed. So sad. Having sex with her seemed to be the only way I feel wanted and feel close. I know so stupid. In a way I think I did it as "marking my territory" or feeling like she was mine again. I'm so screwed up in the head right now.


Dude, you're not screwed up. It's called hysterical bonding, and nearly every person that (a) discovered his or her spouse cheating and (b) wanted to reconcile his or her marriage has been through it. Hell, I'm surprised it was only twice!

That said...

Did you initiate both times?

Were there other times -- after the affair -- that you initiated sex but she balked? If so, how soon after discovering the affair did this occur?

How was the sex? For you? For her? I'm not being a voyeur... this is key.


----------



## ScrambledEggs

freeride376 said:


> The problem with keylogger is that she hasn't done any of this on the computer. All of it happened on her Iphone. She just deletes everything after she is done. Texts, Phone call logs, even apps she uses. She will literally install an app, use it then delete the app. I caught a lot of it on our phone records. So now she doesn't call with her regular Verizon service. She can call through Facebook Instant Messenger or other various apps. She is good. Im telling you. It is getting to the point that it will be impossible to ever catch her again. No
> whatsoever.
> 
> About the sex. I have already had sex with her twice since this all went down. I'm so stupid. I have been so depressed. So sad. Having sex with her seemed to be the only way I feel wanted and feel close. I know so stupid. In a way I think I did it as "marking my territory" or feeling like she was mine again. I'm so screwed up in the head right now.


Don't beat yourself up over the sex thing.

So If she is still concealing her phone, or anything from you she is still gaming you. If she was fully remorseful she would give you all her passwords, stop deleting email, and proactively give you access to anything. I hate to say this, but you might have her penned in with a sort leash right now, but she is probably not over him. The 'fog' of the affair takes quite a while to flush out. Months at least. 

What concerns me is her willingness to lie as I pointed out previously. Do you really believe, after so many serial lies, that she just snapped is not giving you the truth about her, her feelings, and what she wants? What would lead you to believe that she made this conversion?


----------



## GusPolinski

ScrambledEggs said:


> Don't beat yourself up over the sex thing.
> 
> So If she is still concealing her phone, or anything from you she is still gaming you. If she was fully remorseful she would give you all her passwords, stop deleting email, and proactively give you access to anything. I hate to say this, but you might have her penned in with a sort leash right now, but she is probably not over him. The 'fog' of the affair takes quite a while to flush out. Months at least.


Yep. 



ScrambledEggs said:


> What concerns me is her willingness to lie as I pointed out previously. Do you really believe, after so many serial lies, that she just snapped is not giving you the truth about her, her feelings, and what she wants? *What would lead you to believe that made this conversion?*


Desperate hope.


----------



## freeride376

Hardtohandle said:


> This is going to get worse for you because sadly you do not actually have the courage to do what is needed.
> 
> Again I completely understand because I was in your shoes..
> 
> That being said I can tell you this. Do not make any promises you do not intend to keep.. So telling her you want a divorce means nothing if you don't do it..
> 
> You cry wolf enough times they realize that is all your doing.
> 
> Sadly I have to agree, you are going to have to steady yourself because more than kissing happened..
> 
> I would suggest you find out the whole REAL truth before you make any real decisions and even then, take some time before making any real decisions..
> 
> But you cannot continue this marriage with all these lies..
> 
> Again trust me, my Ex wife did the same thing to me.. She WILL get better, this WILL happen again if you both don't discover what really is the issue with her..
> 
> By all means DO NOT have another child with her right now.. PLEASE.... Children do not make things better, they make things worse when this is going on.. Its just another excuse why they can cheat.. JUST DON'T DO IT..
> 
> The ball is in your court right now.. She has no marriage rights atm.. DO NOT HAVE ANOTHER CHILD WITH THIS WOMAN...
> 
> BTW getting divorced does not mean that YOU get to see your daughter every other weekend.. Nothing is written in stone that the woman gets the child..
> 
> If you want to know the truth you will have to dig to find more out.. Only once you have any real truth will she confess it seems..
> 
> What did this man tell you when you called him ?..
> 
> Keep everything to this thread.. Do not start new threads... It makes easier for everyone to follow along and understand the big picture.. So posting a new thread she is bipolar doesn't help you for example..
> 
> But you need to stop wanting to believe her and realize you need the truth no matter how sh!tty it is..
> 
> Again been there done that.. I tell you all it does is makes it worse for you.. It fvcks you up mentally in the end.. Again trust me on this one..


Thank you for your comment. So did you stay with your wife? 

How do I find the real truth about the sex? She has told me over and over that they didn't. She straight up got aggressive and serious with me telling me that they didn't. How do I know. I like the advice about taking her for a lie detector test. 

I called the the guy 4 different times. Each time after I cought her. He would lie worse than her. He tried telling me that they only kissed once. And it was just a simple "peck" kiss. I confronted him and told him that my wife already told me about the make out sessions. He was stumbling over his words after that. He always lied and said they were just friends. This last time I went off on him. Screaming at the top of my lungs, threatening to beat the F out of him to a bloody pulp if he ever has contact with her again. I know it scared him. After this he actually blocked her from all communication. Texts, Facebook, all the apps. She was not able to call him or anything. It was all blocked on his end. This really crushed her. That hurt too.


----------



## lordmayhem

freeride376 said:


> The problem with keylogger is that she hasn't done any of this on the computer. All of it happened on her Iphone. She just deletes everything after she is done. Texts, Phone call logs, even apps she uses. She will literally install an app, use it then delete the app. I caught a lot of it on our phone records. So now she doesn't call with her regular Verizon service. She can call through Facebook Instant Messenger or other various apps. She is good. Im telling you. It is getting to the point that it will be impossible to ever catch her again. No
> whatsoever.


Experienced cheater. This wasn't her first rodeo. Probably in contact with the OM while she is away from you with her family on vacation. 

The next step will be her getting a burner phone (pay as you go). You will not be able to trust her again. She's a serial cheater.


----------



## ConanHub

Remember to take care of yourself. Remember to eat healthy and get out for at least a walk daily to clear your head.

I know you're going through hell but many make the mistake of not caring for their basic health.

Your daughter is going to need you no matter what goes down.

Sorry she decided that her fling was more important than her marriage and family.

Take care.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## freeride376

South Stand said:


> First of all, sorry you are here. That said I've found this site full a lot of useful information and insights that have helped me a lot.
> 
> Is he really going through a divorce? Find out and tell his wife. I did not tell the wife of my wife's affair partner. She eventually figured it out, but I regret not telling her straight away.
> 
> I think someone else mentioned this, do her parents know? If not make it known. If she is any kind of a person, this may keep her honest. If she's not, it won't make any difference.
> 
> Yes this guy is married. He told my wife that he was going through a divorce and needed someone to talk to. This is how he reeled her in. Now he says that he is trying to work things out with his wife. I heard through the a different source that they were never really getting a divorce. I told my wife this. She was crushed. She felt lied to and actually confronted him about it. I was like, "why does this even matter that he wasn't getting a divorce"? 1. it doesn't matter if he is getting a divorce or not. You still don't have an affair. 2.You actually believed this guy? Of course he lied to you. He is a creep.
> 
> I tried to tell his wife about all this. I actually tried to message her on facebook and told her everything. She never replied to me. I don't know any other way to contact her. I hope she finds out.


----------



## ScrambledEggs

freeride376 said:


> She was not able to call him or anything. It was all blocked on his end. *This really crushed her.* That hurt too.


What are you trying to save?


----------



## Kristisha

Freeride376 Why are you still with her? :scratchhead:


----------



## GusPolinski

lordmayhem said:


> Experienced cheater. This wasn't her first rodeo. *Probably in contact with the OM while she is away from you with her family on vacation.*
> 
> The next step will be her getting a burner phone (pay as you go). You will not be able to trust her again. She's a serial cheater.


My thoughts exactly.

And of course that's assuming that she's even on vacation -- or w/ her family -- at all.


----------



## Yeswecan

freeride376 said:


> Thank you for your comment. So did you stay with your wife?
> 
> How do I find the real truth about the sex? She has told me over and over that they didn't. She straight up got aggressive and serious with me telling me that they didn't. How do I know. I like the advice about taking her for a lie detector test.
> 
> I called the the guy 4 different times. Each time after I cought her. He would lie worse than her. He tried telling me that they only kissed once. And it was just a simple "peck" kiss. I confronted him and told him that my wife already told me about the make out sessions. He was stumbling over his words after that. He always lied and said they were just friends. This last time I went off on him. Screaming at the top of my lungs, threatening to beat the F out of him to a bloody pulp if he ever has contact with her again. I know it scared him. After this he actually blocked her from all communication. Texts, Facebook, all the apps. She was not able to call him or anything. It was all blocked on his end. This really crushed her. That hurt too.


It appears they got their stories straight on the sex. Both will lie to cover their indiscretion. Your W did lie to you without a care in the world. The OM has nothing to lose. 

Sorry you are here.


----------



## happy as a clam

freeride376 said:


> *They would secretly meet at a Target Parking Lot* to see each other after school. She told him that she finds herself shopping at Target in hopes to see him.


FR... I am sorry to break the news, but meeting at Target to "see" each other *=* blow jobs, or hand jobs at 
the very least . Forget this "Nothing else happened -- I swear!!!" line. Total BS.

As stevehowefan pointed out, adults don't "just kiss." (Heck, even teenagers don't "just kiss" -- as he astutely pointed out!)

I am very sorry for your discovery and what you're going through. VERY good that you told her family what is really going on.


----------



## freeride376

GusPolinski said:


> Not true. How transparent is she being w/ her phone? How about her social media and e-mail accounts? Do you have the e-mail address and password for her Apple iTunes/iCloud account?
> 
> Has she rebuked any requests for transparency?
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, you're not screwed up. It's called hysterical bonding, and nearly every person that (a) discovered his or her spouse cheating and (b) wanted to reconcile his or her marriage has been through it. Hell, I'm surprised it was only twice!
> 
> That said...
> 
> Did you initiate both times?
> 
> Were there other times -- after the affair -- that you initiated sex but she balked? If so, how soon after discovering the affair did this occur?
> 
> How was the sex? For you? For her? I'm not being a voyeur... this is key.


She has given me all the passwords and account details to everything I know about. She has never refused any of this. She has actually been very compliant with all my requests. Again I don't know if there are other accounts that I don't know about but everything I know about, I have. Including Icloud. I am able to track where she is all the time through GPS now. She agreed to this. 

Yes I did initiate sex both times. She has never balked at the idea. She has always been willing. I can tell she is really trying to make things right. One thing that pisses me off is that she was having sex with me during the affair too. 

She has not been standoffish in the least since I caught her the last time. I actually do see that my old wife is back. During the affair she was not herself. She was really different. This is why I became suspicious. Now she is back to her old self. She has been a great wife our entire marriage. Very caring and such a great mother. This is why I am struggling. I love her very much. I just don't know if I can get over this. This is all I think about all day every day. it never stops. It has now been 2 or 3 weeks. 2 or 3 weeks of HELL!


----------



## ScrambledEggs

> I heard through the a different source that they were never really getting a divorce. I told my wife this. She was crushed. She felt lied to and actually confronted him about it. I was like, "why does this even matter that he wasn't getting a divorce"? 1. it doesn't matter if he is getting a divorce or not. You still don't have an affair. 2.You actually believed this guy? Of course he lied to you. He is a creep.


She was crushed because she feels betrayed by him. She thought he was emotionally exclusive to her, even while she splits herself emotionally between her fling (him) and Plan B (you).




> I tried to tell his wife about all this. I actually tried to message her on facebook and told her everything. She never replied to me. I don't know any other way to contact her. I hope she finds out.


When you are not friends with someone on Facebook and you message them, the message gets dumped into the "other" folder which normally does not cause an alert to pop up. There is always junk in there so a person won't see it unless they go looking for it, which is unlikely. She never got the message and it is just sitting in her "other" message box for her to eventually, maybe years from now, stumble upon it.


----------



## freeride376

ScrambledEggs said:


> Don't beat yourself up over the sex thing.
> 
> So If she is still concealing her phone, or anything from you she is still gaming you. If she was fully remorseful she would give you all her passwords, stop deleting email, and proactively give you access to anything. I hate to say this, but you might have her penned in with a sort leash right now, but she is probably not over him. The 'fog' of the affair takes quite a while to flush out. Months at least.
> 
> What concerns me is her willingness to lie as I pointed out previously. Do you really believe, after so many serial lies, that she just snapped is not giving you the truth about her, her feelings, and what she wants? What would lead you to believe that she made this conversion?


You nailed it. All the lies. It has been by far the hardest part. What would lead me to believe that she made this conversion? I'm not fully on board with that thought yet.

She has shown remorse. She is her old self again (see earlier comment) She is being (to my knowledge) completely transparent. But heck I thought she was transparent after I caught her the first 3 times. She just gets better at hiding it.


----------



## ScrambledEggs

freeride376 said:


> Thank you for your comment. So did you stay with your wife?
> 
> How do I find the real truth about the sex? She has told me over and over that they didn't. She straight up got aggressive and serious with me telling me that they didn't. How do I know. I like the advice about taking her for a lie detector test.


When she says she did not have sex with him you say:

"I don't believe you. But anyway it does not matter because the really hurtful part of this is the lies, deception, and emotional betrayal and not just who you rubbed your parts against." "Sex or not, it is just as bad and toxic to our marriage"

Take the power of their lie away from them.


----------



## GusPolinski

freeride376 said:


> She has given me all the passwords and account details to everything I know about. She has never refused any of this. She has actually been very compliant with all my requests. Again I don't know if there are other accounts that I don't know about but everything I know about, I have. Including Icloud. I am able to track where she is all the time through GPS now. She agreed to this.
> 
> Yes I did initiate sex both times. She has never balked at the idea. She has always been willing. I can tell she is really trying to make things right. One thing that pisses me off is that she was having sex with me during the affair too.
> 
> She has not been standoffish in the least since I caught her the last time. I actually do see that my old wife is back. During the affair she was not herself. She was really different. This is why I became suspicious. Now she is back to her old self. She has been a great wife our entire marriage. Very caring and such a great mother. This is why I am struggling. I love her very much. I just don't know if I can get over this. This is all I think about all day every day. it never stops. It has now been 2 or 3 weeks. 2 or 3 weeks of HELL!


It's possible (something like a 0.01% chance) that she's told you the truth about the extent of the affair, but it's not at all likely. Either way, it's time to dispense w/ the bullsh*t, and there are some tools that can assist you w/ that. Read up on Wondershare Dr. Fone for iOS (several here have had luck w/ this), Fonelab, and iPhone Backup Extractor.

Does she back up her iPhone to a Mac or PC at home or via iCloud? To find out for sure, download a trial version of Wondershare Dr. Fone for iOS, use her Apple iTunes/iCloud credentials to log into it, and see if there are any backups available for her iPhone.

Before you do that, though, log into her e-mail account and be prepared to intercept and delete the notification e-mail that Apple will send to her in order to notify her that someone has used her credentials to log into her iCloud account.

Does she use an iPad and/or Mac computer (Mac mini, iMac, Macbook, etc) as well?

Do you have any older iPhones lying around not being used at the moment?

Also, how far in advance was the vacation planned?


----------



## GusPolinski

freeride376 said:


> How do I find the real truth about the sex? She has told me over and over that they didn't. She straight up got aggressive and serious with me telling me that they didn't. How do I know. I like the advice about taking her for a lie detector test.


I wouldn't even mention a polygraph until you've managed to accomplish a complete and total net w/ respect to monitoring. The reasoning for this is three-fold: 

(a) polygraphs are expensive
(b) polygraphs are notoriously unreliable
(c) you want to be able to catch any Google searches along the lines of "how to beat a polygraph" (and, honestly, that will tell you everything that you need to know)

Does she have a Gmail account?


----------



## freeride376

ScrambledEggs said:


> What are you trying to save?


I know right? I feel so stupid. Its hard to leave when its you. If I was not me and reading this post I would be like. "You idiot. Get the hell out of there!!"

But it's hard. I have been married 7 years. It hasn't been a perfect marriage but it has been really good. I love her so much. We were completely compatible. Laughed, had fun. Got along. We got each other. Fairy tail. My daughter is so awesome. So cute. So fun. The three of us made the best family. We had a great family. So perfect. 

Im stunned, broken, hurt. I cant believe this happened. Never thought it would happen. I thought she loved me so much. She showed that every day. 

Im so confused.


----------



## lordmayhem

freeride376 said:


> She has shown remorse. She is her old self again (see earlier comment) She is being (to my knowledge) completely transparent. But heck I thought she was transparent after I caught her the first 3 times. She just gets better at hiding it.


She's just going to get a burner phone in the near future if she doesn't already have one - that you cannot track. 

Then what?


----------



## GusPolinski

lordmayhem said:


> She's just going to get a burner phone in the near future if she doesn't already have one - that you cannot track.
> 
> Then what?


*cough* VAR


----------



## freeride376

GusPolinski said:


> My thoughts exactly.
> 
> And of course that's assuming that she's even on vacation -- or w/ her family -- at all.


I know she is in Europe with her family. She has sent me many pictures. I have been in very close contact with her dad. I know for a surety. 

About when I took my daughter to Idaho and she stayed at her parents house. We live in California. She went to stay at her parents house in Idaho. I dropped her off. I know she was there.


----------



## Kristisha

freeride376 said:


> I know right? I feel so stupid. Its hard to leave when its you. If I was not me and reading this post I would be like. "You idiot. Get the hell out of there!!"
> 
> But it's hard. I have been married 7 years. It hasn't been a perfect marriage but it has been really good. I love her so much. We were completely compatible. Laughed, had fun. Got along. We got each other. Fairy tail. My daughter is so awesome. So cute. So fun. The three of us made the best family. We had a great family. So perfect.
> 
> Im stunned, broken, hurt. I cant believe this happened. Never thought it would happen. I thought she loved me so much. She showed that every day.
> 
> Im so confused.


I'm sorry for what you are going through, but sometimes you just have to let it go.
From your point of view everything is close to perfect, but from her perspective obviously is not. She is disrespectful and a liar. Not to mention the fact that she didn't wanted to finish the affair earlier.

Because they had sex it's very hard for her to get him out of her system because for her it's like a rush of adrenaline , it's something new, different, someone that it's not you. So I don't think that she will get over it or if she will she will grow frustrated and it will take a long time.
Still I will you all the best!


----------



## GusPolinski

freeride376 said:


> I know she is in Germany with her family. She has sent me many pictures. I have been in very close contact with her dad. I know for a surety.
> 
> About when I took my daughter to Moab and she stayed at her parents house. *We live in California.* She went to stay at her parents house in Utah. I dropped her off. I know she was there.


FWIW, divorcing in California after 10 years of marriage means PERMANENT ALIMONY.

Something to think about.


----------



## happy as a clam

freeride376 said:


> It hasn't been a perfect marriage but it has been really good. I love her so much. *We were completely compatible.*


Not exactly. YOU thought you were compatible. But she has been trolling for man-candy in the Target parking lot. So, obviously she has needs that aren't being met in your marriage (NOT blaming you at all, just pointing it out.) Instead of coming to you like an HONORABLE spouse and trying to fix it, she goes trolling and tramping for an AFFAIR. Quick-fix. Easy way out. "Twist the knife in ol' hubby's back... he'll never find out!!" 

I GUARANTEE if you hadn't found out on your own, she would have NEVER told you! Great marriage, huh? (Trust, honesty, respect, having your back, in your corner, against all odds???)



freeride376 said:


> Fairy tail. *The three of us made the best family.* We had a great family. *So perfect.*


Nothing, and I mean NOTHING in life is perfect. Obviously SHE did not share this same vision of "perfection." Else she wouldn't have been cheating and lying TO YOUR FACE, over and over and over and over and over (not just 4 times).



freeride376 said:


> I'm stunned, broken, hurt. I cant believe this happened.


Believe it. It happened. Now PLEASE don't rugsweep this because she says ALL THE RIGHT THINGS.

Stand up for yourself.


----------



## freeride376

GusPolinski said:


> I wouldn't even mention a polygraph until you've managed to accomplish a complete and total net w/ respect to monitoring. The reasoning for this is three-fold:
> 
> (a) polygraphs are expensive
> (b) polygraphs are notoriously unreliable
> (c) you want to be able to catch any Google searches along the lines of "how to beat a polygraph" (and, honestly, that will tell you everything that you need to know)
> 
> Does she have a Gmail account?


Yes she does have a gmail account. Why do you ask? Is there a way to retrieve deleted messages from it?


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

Dont take any decisions now, take your own time and decide but you should know the truth before taking any decision. Get a polygraph done. Tel her you don't believe a word she is telling and poly is the best way for her to prove her side of story. If she is truly remorseful she wont have a problem in it.

You are only three weeks out of your recent Dday, If you want to R it takes 2 to 5 yrs for recovery. so your journey is not going to be a fun ride for many coming yrs. Is she ready to do the right things for your healing for this long?


----------



## ScrambledEggs

freeride376 said:


> I know right? I feel so stupid. Its hard to leave when its you. If I was not me and reading this post I would be like. "You idiot. Get the hell out of there!!"
> 
> But it's hard. I have been married 7 years. It hasn't been a perfect marriage but it has been really good. I love her so much. We were completely compatible. Laughed, had fun. Got along. We got each other. Fairy tail. My daughter is so awesome. So cute. So fun. The three of us made the best family. We had a great family. So perfect.
> 
> Im stunned, broken, hurt. I cant believe this happened. Never thought it would happen. I thought she loved me so much. She showed that every day.
> 
> Im so confused.


I know, I seem like I might really have my sh!t together in this thread. It is easy to be dispassionate and rational when it is not your life. I invite you to read my thread so you can see how truly screwed up I am and maybe giving me your thoughts back will also help you with some perspective. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/262170-1-year-ea-still-clouds-my-mind.html


----------



## azteca1986

freeride, sorry you're here.


freeride376 said:


> I know right? I feel so stupid. Its hard to leave when its you. If I was not me and reading this post I would be like. "You idiot. Get the hell out of there!!"


This is why the wise people on here say that unless you've been put into this terrible situation, you never know how you'll react.

The "reclaiming your territory" (hysterical bonding) is perfectly normal. As is your confusion. You're actually doing pretty well under the circumstances and have a good grasp of your situation.

One thing I'll warn you about is the feeling that things are "back to normal" because of how your WW (Wandering Wife) is acting. They are not. It's healthier to consider that your WW ended your previous marriage with her betrayal. Currently she is a proven liar and completely untrustworthy. She can through her transparency and actions eventually earn that trust back. 

The other thing is the lies have to stop. Meeting four/fives times in a car - kissing, but no inappropriate touching? Really. Really? Even if your WW did nothing (unlikely), did he have his hands in his pockets? They could have kissed in a corridor, or a cafe. There's only one reason why people having affairs get into cars in parking lots and that is to do the things two adults cannot do in corridors and cafes. 

This is why it's called betrayal. Your WW has taken her previously good record and your trust to use against you. That's why you really _want_ to believe the highly implausible story that they met and "only" kissed. She needs to know the lies have to stop. And the onus is on her to clear her name, not to you.


----------



## alte Dame

You haven't been at this 'coping with infidelity' thing very long and you are still in shock. It's like a death. One day things are good and then the next day your world is dramatically different and worse through no fault of your own. You feel blindsided and confused and just..in shock.

The shock phase will wear off, though, and you will be left with the changed marital bonds. She lied to you so easily. She did it so convincingly. This is one of the major issues for your confused mind & it will remain there as a huge obstacle. She also sidelined you and focused on another man to love. This is the other issue that you won't easily get past. These things together, the lying and cheating, will effect permanent changes in your marriage. This isn't something that can be forgotten, sadly.

I think you should try to determine whether a physical affair (sex) is a dealbreaker for you. If you think it is, it is smart to do the investigating necessary to try to get to the truth. (I personally think it is not credible that they were 'in love' and just made out like teenagers.)

Read weightlifter's standard evidence thread carefully and see if that helps. Stay on here where there are helpful people like Gus to try to retrieve texts. Consider a VAR and polygraph. Take serious control of your future. You may be in shock, but that doesn't mean that you are helpless. Do what you need to do to inform yourself before you make any serious life decisions.


----------



## happy as a clam

I agree with others.

The THREAT of a polygraph might just put the FEAR OF GOD in her to have a COMPLETE "parking lot confession" ----> she will tell you EVERYTHING you want to know to avoid going under the scrupulous humiliation of a lie-detector test.

If you don't resolve this in your own mind -- did she or did she NOT have sex (oral, hand, PIV) with this a$$hat -- you will NEVER be able to reconcile with complete peace-of-mind.

Depending on what she confesses in the parking lot, it may already be over. Or you MAY have a chance to move forward in TRUTH.

Schedule the polygraph. Tell her this is the ONLY way you will remain in the marriage.


----------



## GusPolinski

freeride376 said:


> Yes she does have a gmail account. Why do you ask? Is there a way to retrieve deleted messages from it?


If they've truly been deleted (make sure that you've checked the "Sent", "Junk", and "Deleted" folders, as well as any mail underneath the "All Mail" tag, as she may have simply removed the "Inbox" tag from any e-mails that she didn't/doesn't want you to find), then I can't imagine that anything short of a warrant directed at Google will get them for you. But that's not why I asked.

The next time that you get access to her phone, open Safari, browse to google.com, and log in w/ her credentials (and, per the warning below, be ready to intercept and delete any notification e-mail that Google may send to her account). Then clear the last couple of entries (the entries that you will have just created) from the local Safari history. You'll now have access to any and all Google searches initiated from her phone. (Until, of course, she clears cookies, etc. Then you'd just log in again.)

To take a peak at her search history at any time, browse to the following URL...

https://history.google.com

...and then enter her account credentials. Any search history that has NOT been cleared should be there. (A completely empty search history could also be a red flag, by the way.)

It would be preferable to do this using Private/InPrivate/Incognito browsing mode from your PC, and AFTER having already logged into her Gmail account within the same browser session. That way you'll be ready to intercept and delete any notification e-mail that Google happens to send to her in order to notify that someone has logged into her account.

And, actually, look into creating Gmail filters to automagically "handle" any notification e-mails sent to her by Apple, Facebook, Google, etc while you're "getting your sleuth on".


----------



## ScrambledEggs

GusPolinski said:


> If they've truly been deleted (make sure that you've checked the "Sent", "Junk", and "Deleted" folders, as well as any mail underneath the "All Mail" tag, as she may have simply removed the "Inbox" tag from any e-mails that she didn't/doesn't want you to find), then I can't imagine that anything short of a warrant directed at Google will get them for you. But that's not why I asked.
> 
> The next time that you get access to her phone, open Safari, browse to google.com, and log in w/ her credentials (and, per the warning below, be ready to intercept and delete any notification e-mail that Google may send to her account). Then clear the last couple of entries (the entries that you will have just created) from the local Safari history. You'll now have access to any and all Google searches initiated from her phone. (Until, of course, she clears cookies, etc. Then you'd just log in again.)
> 
> To take a peak at her search history at any time, browse to the following URL...
> 
> https://history.google.com
> 
> ...and then enter her account credentials. Any search history that has NOT been cleared should be there. (A completely empty search history could also be a red flag, by the way.)
> 
> It would be preferable to do this using Private/InPrivate/Incognito browsing mode from your PC, and AFTER having already logged into her Gmail account within the same browser session. That way you'll be ready to intercept and delete any notification e-mail that Google happens to send to her in order to notify that someone has logged into her account.
> 
> And, actually, look into creating Gmail filters to automagically "handle" any notification e-mails sent to her by Apple, Facebook, Google, etc while you're "getting your sleuth on".


If you hit her Google account from a PC be careful of two factor authentication. If she has it set up, she might get a call or text with a code that is part of the process and alert her of your attempt. Also, In the security section in google log-on are tracked (OS type, time, date, and IP location). If you can get into her gmail, the brazen act would be to set up email forwarding to a dummy email address that you do have access to. She won't get any notice of that and would have to look into settings to even see it. You need a burner email (Get free Email accounts: Web based and secure Email - mail.com). 

I am not a lawyer, but this stuff may be opening up some legal risks. No matter what you find, never tell her about this or what Gus has suggested if you do it. 

In fact, stop telling her everything you know and for what you do tell her, do not tell her how you know it. You don't need to prove what you both know is true. Take power away from lies.


----------



## Decorum

GusPolinski said:


> FWIW, divorcing in California after 10 years of marriage means PERMANENT ALIMONY.
> 
> Something to think about.


Wow! Do post nups work?

She destroyed the trust in your relationship. Now you will never feel fully at peace about her or the two of you as a couple.

If you stay with her do not have anymore kids with her! 

At least not for 5 years.

I am so sorry, you now know she has that vulnerability as a need for other men's attention/affection and that 
recalcitrant waywardness that changed her into a person you did not even recognize.

Relationships are not unconditional, we may forgive someone and still decide they make a bad risk for a relationship.

Forgiveness does mean pretending someone is nice, reliable, trustworthy, etc, when they are not, its simply our willingness to pay the price of someone elses debt against us so that we can be free from bitterness and they have the freedom to move on with their life (without our punishing them or further retribution from us) and become a better person if they choose.

Its one human being to another, there is no incumbency on us to form or maintain an intimate relationship.

Intimate relationships are based on trust and are therefore very conditional.

She has a LONG way to go to prove she is deserving of a relationship with you now, and that is assuming that YOU are able to move past it. That depends on your makeup, and there nothing wrong if you decide no, its all individual and has nothing to do with strong/weak or right/wrong.

I really wish you well.
take care.


----------



## GusPolinski

ScrambledEggs said:


> If you hit her Google account from a PC be careful of two factor authentication. If she has it set up, she might get a call or text with a code that is part of the process and alert her of your attempt. Also, In the security section in google log-on are tracked (OS type, time, date, and IP location). *If you can get into her gmail, the brazen act would be to set up email forwarding to a dummy email address that you do have access to. She won't get any notice of that and would have to look into settings to even see it.* You need a burner email (Get free Email accounts: Web based and secure Email - mail.com).
> 
> I am not a lawyer, but this stuff may be opening up some legal risks. No matter what you find, never tell her about this or what Gus has suggested if you do it.
> 
> In fact, stop telling her everything you know and for what you do tell her, do not tell her how you know it. You don't need to prove what you both know is true. Take power away from lies.


It's worth mentioning that, if she happens to access her Gmail account using a browser (as opposed to the iOS "Mail" app), she'll receive a warning banner at the top of the browser window notifying her that the account has been configured to forward e-mail to another e-mail account. I *think* that the banner lasts for a week or two... maybe longer.

And while I'm not certain, it's possible that the official Google Gmail app for iOS will also display the same behavior.

It might be better to configure a mail app on a Mac or PC to download (but not remove) any and all e-mail sent to/received by the account.

And I agree w/ the bit re: two-factor authentication. That said, most people don't configure it. And if OP happens to trigger an alert while getting started, all he has to say is that, w/ her out of town, he's feeling all the more insecure about things and is just having a look to calm his nerves. The only downside is that -- if anything _is_ still going on -- she might start taking things even further underground.

It's a calculated risk for sure.


----------



## ScrambledEggs

GusPolinski said:


> It's worth mentioning that, if she happens to access her Gmail account using a browser (as opposed to the iOS "Mail" app), she'll receive a warning banner at the top of the browser window notifying her that the account has been configured to forward e-mail to another e-mail account. I *think* that the banner lasts for a week or two... maybe longer.


That must be new, but I tested it and you are right. At least newer than when I last set up forwarding a few years ago.


----------



## cgiles

Did you looked there with her gmail account ? 

https://history.google.com


----------



## happy as a clam

azteca1986 said:


> One thing I'll warn you about is the feeling that *things are "back to normal"* because of how your WW (Wandering Wife) is acting. *They are not.*


Truer words have ne'er been spoken...



azteca1986 said:


> It's healthier to consider that your WW ended your previous marriage with her betrayal. *Currently she is a proven liar and completely untrustworthy. *


This, This, THIS. Completely untrustworthy and a proven liar (multiple times).



azteca1986 said:


> The other thing is the lies have to stop. *Meeting four/fives times in a car - kissing, but no inappropriate touching? Really. Really?*


Open your eyes, OP. You are being really naive!! Are you SERIOUSLY believing your wife (after multiple lies -- 4 to the exponential) that NOTHING HAPPENED??? For realz???



azteca1986 said:


> *This is why it's called betrayal.* Your WW has taken her previously good record and your trust to use against you. That's why *you really want to believe the highly implausible story that they met and "only" kissed.*




Trust me (and others here). They did FAR MORE than "met and kissed." Sheesh...


----------



## arbitrator

> *About the sex. I have already had sex with her twice since this all went down. I'm so stupid. I have been so depressed. So sad. Having sex with her seemed to be the only way I feel wanted and feel close. I know so stupid. In a way I think I did it as "marking my territory" or feeling like she was mine again. I'm so screwed up in the head right now.*


* All the more reason for you to get off of your ass and get yourself to a medical doctor ASAP to test you for the presence of STD's! 

Let's just say that she could well leave you with a case of "the gift that keeps on giving!"*


----------



## azteca1986

freeride376 said:


> How do I find the real truth about the sex? She has told me over and over that they didn't. *She straight up got aggressive and serious* with me telling me that they didn't. How do I know.


This tells you more than you might realise. Anger is a common deflection technique. It means "Cease and desist. Stop this line of questioning right now!".

Think about it. She has no right to react with anger when you question her truthfulness. She's been lying over and over for weeks (months?). Her anger means you were getting close to the truth. 

These days apart will hopefully allow you to see things with a bit of clarity. A very perceptive poster here used to say "You will know when you have all the pieces, because then her story will finally make sense". Right now, her story doesn't make sense. No matter how she behaves from now on, her anger then was an indication that there's more to this story.



> This last time I went off on him. Screaming at the top of my lungs, threatening to beat the F out of him to a bloody pulp if he ever has contact with her again. I know it scared him. After this he actually blocked her from all communication. Texts, Facebook, all the apps. She was not able to call him or anything. It was all blocked on his end. This really crushed her. That hurt too.


Firstly, kudos for your reaction to the OM (Other Man). We see this far too little , sadly.

Her reaction is understandable too. See, they both said they loved each other, that they were soulmates that had finally found one another, etc. But at the first sign of being on the receiving end of physical harm, he dropped her like a hot potato. *She meant nothing to him.*

But don't feel sorry for her. She brought this upon herself.


----------



## drifting on

freeride376

I post this because you are on the fence on whether or not you can get over this as it stands with what you know now. My WW first admitted to lunch and that OM was just a friend. Then it was multiple lunches. Then it was we held hands once. Then it was we kissed once. Then it was we kissed and groped once. Then it was we had sex once. Then it was we had sex twice. Reality is it was an EA that went to PA that lasted six months. Believe nothing she says, contact OMW, verify everything. Do not tell your wife you are telling OMW. To find her look in anything regarding public records. Good luck to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PBDad

Cheaters are liars. She's still doing both. Kissing means at least oral. 

Would you date a lady who cheats? Well, you are married to one. Have her served with divorce papers, expose her adultery to everyone you and she knows.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Steve1000

Regarding the way you feel now, it is impossible to make any good decisions while this is so new to you. Even if you are too soft now and take her back, you will still be wondering if they had sex and have those images in your head one year from now. However, by that time, you may have brewed up enough resentment to end it.



freeride376 said:


> How do I find the real truth about the sex?


I'm mostly joking, but I know someone who created a new email account in his wife's name. Then sent an email to the other man saying something like 

"I have created this email account because (husband) might have access to my other accounts and I need to find something out soon. Someone must have told my husband that we had sex? Did you tell him that?"


----------



## arbitrator

Steve1000 said:


> freeride376 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do I find the real truth about the sex?
> 
> 
> 
> *Create a new email account in her name. Send an email to the other man saying something like
> 
> "I have created this email account because (husband) might have access to my other accounts and I need to find something out soon. Someone must have told my husband that we had sex? Did you tell him that?"
> 
> Do that when you are with your wife on a weekend so that you can try to prevent any communication through a channel that you are not aware of.*
Click to expand...

* Oh, Stevie, you sneaky devil!*


----------



## Steve1000

arbitrator said:


> * Oh, Stevie, you sneaky devil!*


In regard to my own ordeal, I successfully had months of communication with the other man by communicating with him on skype. More that a year had passed since they really last communicated and I know that he no longer has my now wife's phone number or social media information. Hell, he never even knew or cared to know my then girlfriend's real name. 

This did help me a lot: The POS was only interested to talk about sex and through him (he thought he was chatting with her), I listened to how he felt that she didn't seem to enjoy sex very much. However I also learned that they did not use protection at that time by asking him if he was worried about pregnancy. He replied "I told you in the beginning that I had surgery and no long capable of making babies". That part sucked, but I am glad to have some truth and glad to waste his time.


----------



## Dyokemm

"But it's hard. I have been married 7 years. It hasn't been a perfect marriage but it has been really good. I love her so much. We were completely compatible. Laughed, had fun. Got along. We got each other. Fairy tail. My daughter is so awesome. So cute. So fun. The three of us made the best family. We had a great family. So perfect."

Sorry you have to go through this....and I know this is something you do not want to face and admit.

But the M you described in loving detail above?.....It is gone FOREVER, no matter if you decide to R or D.

Your WW killed that M....and if you R it will be on the basis of building a new M, with this ugly scar as part of your back-story.

Also....the other posters are probably right....this was a full on PA.

She has gas-lit and lied to you throughout this whole mess....why would she suddenly be 100% truthful at this point?

Plus.....what POSOM would continue to chase your WW knowing that you had caught her in the A for only a few smooches and some emotional ego kibbles?

It wasn't until you finally blew up that he realized 'Oh Sh*t!...this is going to go back to my BW now.'.....and notice what he instantly did.....his blocking all methods of communication was primarily about trying to cut any chance for you to tell his BW.

He knew you would try and has probably been monitoring his BW's facebook and communications to intercept....he undoubtedly did intercept and delete your one attempt to out him.

The fact that he has so completely cut off the A though is another sign that it was a PA....he got what he wanted and now that the fun is over, he is over the drama.

If he was truly 'In Love' with your WW, he wouldn't care about exposure....he would jump at the chance to go with his soulmate.

Your WW was probably trying to reel him into a more permanent relationship.....but she was keeping you as Plan B in case he wouldn't commit.....so she kept promising to end it while secretly taking it further underground.

Now think about this logically.....if your WW was trying to snare him, how would she best go about doing that?.....What would she offer to him as an enticement to leave his BW and be with her?

A few kisses and 'I love you' in texts?

No...hate to say it, but she was giving him the side-action he wanted.

But now that he has ditched her and she is faced with losing BOTH guys...she is desperately trying to save her M to you.

And to do that, she is going to deny the PA for as long as possible....and get angry at you for even suggesting it could have been.

You are going to have to demand a poly with D as the consequence for refusal or failure in order to get the truth.

She will almost assuredly crack with at least the beginnings of truth.


----------



## ConanHub

Steve1000 said:


> In regard to my own ordeal, I successfully had months of communication with the other man by communicating with him on skype. More that a year had passed since they really last communicated and I know that he no longer has my now wife's phone number or social media information. Hell, he never even knew or cared to know my then girlfriend's real name.
> 
> This did help me a lot: The POS was only interested to talk about sex and through him (he thought he was chatting with her), I listened to how he felt that she didn't seem to enjoy sex very much. However I also learned that they did not use protection at that time by asking him if he was worried about pregnancy. He replied "I told you in the beginning that I had surgery and no long capable of making babies". That part sucked, but I am glad to have some truth and glad to waste his time.


You still married her? I definitely don't get it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ConanHub

ConanHub said:


> You still married her? I definitely don't get it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just occurred to me that you might have found out after you married her. Either way, pretty shytty.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Doyle

Your getting top advice here mate---And they all agree with each other that on its own is a give away round here.

Listen to what Gus says --he's a top guy particularly with phones (respect mate).

Threaten poly and see what the reaction is

Good luck.


----------



## freeride376

I really appreciate everyone's responses. I am actually overwhelmed with all the help and advice that I am getting. Thank you all and please keep it coming. This is so good for me. 

I do a agree I need to do a poly or its over.


----------



## GusPolinski

freeride376 said:


> I really appreciate everyone's responses. I am actually overwhelmed with all the help and advice that I am getting. Thank you all and please keep it coming. This is so good for me.
> 
> I do a agree I need to do a poly or its over.


Again, I wouldn't even MENTION a poly to her until you've established some pretty solid monitoring.

ETA: Thanks for the kind words, Doyle.


----------



## MarriedDude

azteca1986 said:


> This tells you more than you might realise. *Anger is a common deflection technique. *It means "Cease and desist. Stop this line of questioning right now!".
> 
> Think about it. She has no right to react with anger when you question her truthfulness. She's been lying over and over for weeks (months?). Her anger means you were getting close to the truth.
> 
> These days apart will hopefully allow you to see things with a bit of clarity. A very perceptive poster here used to say "You will know when you have all the pieces, because then her story will finally make sense". Right now, her story doesn't make sense. No matter how she behaves from now on, her anger then was an indication that there's more to this story.
> 
> Firstly, kudos for your reaction to the OM (Other Man). We see this far too little , sadly.
> 
> Her reaction is understandable too. See, they both said they loved each other, that they were soulmates that had finally found one another, etc. But at the first sign of being on the receiving end of physical harm, he dropped her like a hot potato. *She meant nothing to him.*
> 
> But don't feel sorry for her. She brought this upon herself.


So important....If she was being honest and you didn't believe her...she would be less strident. Because...the truth is the truth and if you didn't believe her..there is literally nothing she can do about it. She would tend toward being resigned to the reality that you won't believe her. HOWEVER...when someone is lying and you don't believe them,...they typically get aggressive...like "How dare you not believe me??"...then start to try to implore you to believe...maybe even asking which part you don't believe..so they can slowly adjust the story. 

Reality is..Everyone Lies. Humans just do it...I believe its in our nature. Spotting it though, once you know how to pick it out...makes interactions much more interesting. The lie that you know is a lie when its delivered...tells you as much as the truth..but in a different way. It shows you how much they think they know about YOU.


----------



## MarriedDude

GusPolinski said:


> Again, I wouldn't even MENTION a poly to her until you've established some pretty solid monitoring.


Exactly. Don't mention the poly -or anything even remotely close to it...until you have all the answers already. 

The poly won't tell you the truth...it will confirm the truth you know...or tell you that you know nothing. 

Poly is about confirmation....not discovery.


----------



## G.J.

GusPolinski said:


> Again, I wouldn't even MENTION a poly to her until you've established some pretty solid monitoring.


Use the poly after drying up all other avenues including what i sent you


----------



## Thor

freeride376 said:


> About the sex. I have already had sex with her twice since this all went down. I'm so stupid. I have been so depressed. So sad. Having sex with her seemed to be the only way I feel wanted and feel close. I know so stupid. In a way I think I did it as "marking my territory" or feeling like she was mine again. I'm so screwed up in the head right now.


Understandable, and normal. From now on if there are any new revelations at all, don't have sex with her. A new revelation would start a new clock, assuming the revelation was for something deeper than what she has already confessed to.

This is something you need to talk to a lawyer about. You can do some research on the internet, too, to see if infidelity is any factor at all in your state for divorce. If not, there is no legal loss by having sex with her after finding out about an infidelity.


----------



## harrybrown

So have you asked her how she would feel about you having an A?

Not a problem for her? that could tell you volumes.

Would she sign an agreement that she will let you have custody of your daughter, she will pay child support and alimony to you and walk away from the property to let your daughter live in the family residence?

Did she show you that she has stopped going to target? I did not realize that is where people were trolling for AP. 

Has she also given you the written timeline and the results of the std tests?


----------



## the guy

My old lady cheated on me for the 1st time in 1998 (7 years in and a 7yr D with a 4 yr old S).

She went straight for 5 yrs then picked it back up 2003 when she went back to school and continued phucking around until 2010.

Here's what I did do in '98
*accepted the fact that she didn't know "why".
* once talked to a reletive we both repected about her affair.
* never talked about it again.
* resented her 
*distant my self from the marriage.
* never gave her the consequences to affair proof the marriage.
* told her "we can work through this".

In short, swept the cheating under the rug!

This is what I did in 2010:
*got mad (I'm not working through this)
*let her go..tried to anyway but she did not this.
* got STD test for both.
* DNA the youngest.
* she found the "why" through professional help.
* required full transparentcy.
* she submitted to no more GNO's
*gave up all the toxic friends.


I gave her so many consequences i figured She'd last less then a year....its been 5 yrs now and my chcik is out of cheater prison and now a days she is just on parole. The trust is gone but thats on her to rebuild if she wants to stick around.

In short is she willing to do the heavy lifting to stick around and have a huge degree of submission to pay the consequences?

Or is she going to be back at it when your kid turns 8?


----------



## ScrambledEggs

I don't know about using poly. I will have to couch this in the statement that I am not a expert in the matter but they seem to be unreliable. Especially with false positives so I would never consider forcing one if I did not already have proof.

And if you have proof, then why would you need a poly? Moreover if they pass with a false negative, you might have a real sociopath on your hands and not even know it. Best to use other methods I think.

Anyway what you are trying to prove with the poly? One more lie? I can guarantee she has told you a few you have not caught. Or that they had sex? Given all of this, is that really all that important? If by some miracle you caught them before they had sex, they where clearly going to soon. You are better off coming at this from the assumption that sex did happen as I suggested before. It is 99% likely anyway.

One thing that I observed happing to me in my own struggle with betrayal was that* I desperately searched for the end of lies and the start of the truth.* Somewhere in an irrational part of my brain* I thought R could begin there. *But the truth is, the line was crossed over the level of betrayal I was willing to have in my marriage before that. It was already gone I was just fighting that reality. 

*The truth is from the moment of discovery, when I saw that intimate text alert come into my wife's phone from the OM, the end of my marriage was inevitable given who I am and who she is. I just did not have the strength or perception to see it.*


----------



## the guy

Two things that had the biggest affect on affair proofing our marriiage # 1 questioning the father of her youngest child ( I knew the kid was mine...the point was how far my old lady had gone to basicaly question our whole marriage) and how deep her betrayal was (had nothing to do with my kid and everything to do with the consequences of her choices)

#2 the confidence i had in letting her go and i wasn't working on shyt....this was her choice to phuck around and it was hers to fix and figure out why her moral compase doesn't point north.


----------



## 6301

Like everyone said, have her take the polygraph and find out once and for all. if she gives you a hard time then you know she's not being honest.

Your gut says something is wrong. When that happens then take it to the bank that there is something wrong so find out and be does with it.

If it was me I would make the appointment while she away and as soon as she comes home tell her that it's set up and not to bother to take her coat off because both of you are heading out.

I understand you have a 4 year old daughter. So does your wife and she knows that the kid is your anchor to the house and her and that's why she lied to you 4 times because she know you don't want to leave your daughter. Well truth be told having a kid isn't stopping her from seeing this bum 4 times and in my opinion she'll do it again.

Take her for the poly and let her know that the next stop will be the lawyers office and the court house and stick to your guns.

Stop having sex with her too. Your supposed to be angry and pissed at her and the power of the vagina has a hold on you and to you it's a feel good thing. To her it's a weapon to be used for this kind of situation. Remember she isn't the only one with one of those. Wise up and stop being the door mat


----------



## the guy

At the end of the day if your old lady can't answer "why" then she hasn't learned a dam thing on her unhealthy choice, and what will keep her from doing this again when your kid starts JR high or starts driving?


----------



## manfromlamancha

I don't even think you need a polygraph! She has cheated and lied repeatedly. If you believe that she hasn't slept with him or got physical with him other than "kissing", then I have a bridge to sell you.

She has graduated from novice to full fledged professional in lying and keeping it from you. The only purpose a polygraph might serve is to help you in getting the gory details from her so that you would know exactly why you were leaving her OR what you were forgiving if you decided to reconcile (although given what has happened already, I would strongly advise against it).

So what are going to do about the fact that your wife is a confirmed liar and cheater, does not respect you and is still keeping this going underground ? Time to step up and make the necessary changes! By all means, do a poly if it helps you but know that it isn't the most reliable thing to do.


----------



## Thor

Freeride, I'm going to go against the grain here a little bit. A lot of people are saying to simply accept that she had sex with the guy because it is highly likely. Yes it is highly likely. But the sex is not the relevant part. The betrayal is the relevant part, not the sex (unless you were both virgins, which brings up other issues).

Let's imagine she did have sex with OM. This means she is still lying about really big things. And that means she is in false R, which means it is time to file for D. So the upshot of just accepting she had sex is to move directly to D.

Getting the WW out of the fog is necessary to successful R. I don't think it is time yet to give up on R as a possibility. But this shouldn't be dragged out unnecessarily either.

My advice is to give her the book "After the Affair" today and have her read the section for the cheating spouse within 24 hours. Then sit down and tell her the issue is one of trust. Her betrayal destroyed trust and the only way to begin to regain it is for her to come clean. This is her chance to tell you anything and everything. Any, and that means ANY further revelations which differ from what she has told you will mean an instant D.

This is where you tell her that Trickle Truth will be the death of the marriage. So her holding back out of embarrassment, fear you will divorce her if you know the truth, or protecting the OM are all mistakes which many cheaters make, because eventually the truth comes out. When it does, it is a reset back to D-Day for the betrayed. Your wife has to understand that the band-aid has to be ripped off in one swipe at this time. No trickle truth.

A poly is probably a good idea, and at the end of this conversation is the time to tell her the poly is scheduled in the near future.

The goal is to get her to capitulate asap. So put on the pressure rather than trying to be nice or trying to not blow things up too much. Once you are certain you have the full truth, only then can you two start working together as a team to try to rebuild. If she is withholding information, she is not on the team yet.


----------



## Thor

I want to just expand a bit on whether the sex is a relevant factor.

For some people, sex is a definite line in the sand. If the WS did in fact have sex with someone else, it is absolutely a D. I think most of us believe this line in the sand exists for us, but for many people it turns out it wasn't as absolute as they thought it was. When the affair actually comes to light, many couples attempt R. Some (few) couples end up with very successful R, even though the BS originally believed affair sex was a deal breaker.

In the early phases when the full truth isn't yet known, the betrayed goes on a quest to find out what really happened. This quest overtakes everything else, including working on a productive rebuilding or ending of the marriage. Because the betrayed has in his mind this line in the sand that if the WS had sex it means D, the betrayed focuses on trying to find out.

The WS fears D, and knows the betrayed is trying to find out if sex happened, so the WS fights back by hiding the truth.

If your wife was not a virgin when you met, she has already been with other men. Her having sex with other men was not a dis-qualifier to marry her. It is not the fact of her having sex with others which makes her unsuitable as a wife. It is the fact of her dishonesty during the marriage which makes it *unsafe* for you to stay in a close relationship. It is emotionally unsafe. It is unsafe for your health because she could bring nasty diseases home. It is unsafe to your dna because she may carry other men's babies and never yours. It is unsafe financially if you end up financing other men's children.

These are the underpinnings of why you're trying to figure out what happened and whether you can trust her going forward.


----------



## Chaparral

You haven't said when your wife will be back but you can check where she's been just by looking at her phone unless she's blocked it. Also look at her search history. How did she get so good at hiding her trail?

My partner's son told him he could tell everywhere my partner had been just by looking at his phone. He took it and it showed him everything. Google "how to tell where my phone has been". Supposedly, google and apple both track our phones and happily share the info with us.

The reason I'm suggesting this is the idea she only met him in the target parking lot is silly. Surely you do not believe that. Besides, you also caught them in the park, ever watch the CHEATERS TV show? Half of them are caught banging in a park.

Have you checked her bank records and credit card purchases?

Sex twice in two or three weeks with her not initiating is no sign of reconciliation. Hysterical bonding is more like twice a day with her all over you.

If you have his number, google his name, his wife's name, try spokeo.com etc. But FIND his wife.

There are ways to reconcile but first you have to get/force the truth. Reconciling comes later.

Its odd to me that going through this, she left for vacation anyway. She sounds very selfish.


----------



## Doyle

Just wanted to be clear I was looking more to her* reaction* to a poly test as much as anything else.


----------



## Steve1000

ConanHub said:


> You still married her? I definitely don't get it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


ConanHub, It was a combination of too much pain, too much pressure, and not having been through this before. I tried hard to make smart decisions, but looking back, I realize that I was in too much emotional trauma to make good solid decisions. 
Timeline in case anyone is interested: 
February/2012 - began relationship after first knowing her in January of that year.

May - July 2012 - She had a sexual relationship with another very immature 55 year old man. She ended it because he didn't want a serious relationship with her.

December 2013 - We got engaged.

January 2014 - D Day. I found old messages from 2012 on her phone after she welcomed me to use her phone. 

February 2014 - Wedding postponed indefinitely.
I did not see her for four months.

June 2014 - Resumed relationship and she agreed to full transparency.
Fall 2014 - got married. 

Since wedding, she has treated me very nicely, full transparency continues, and she has been completely clean. However, we do not talk about what happened in 2012 since the wedding, but it continues to haunt me because I know that she settled for me. We got married in our 40s.


----------



## Steve1000

With this experience, I am smarter now than a year ago and I hope that this experience can help the original poster of this thread to try hard to get to the bottom of his wife's physical relationship with the OM. If he doesn't during this time, it will continue to be on his mind if he decides to try to reconcile.


----------



## LongWalk

Do you know why you are having difficulty conceiving a second child?

At some level she may seeking illicit sex to get another man's sperm. 

Have you been to a therapist to discuss the emotional strain of infertility on a marriage?

I am not raising this to give her justification. But this is an issue that makes your situation more difficult. 

Like several other posters, I believe your wife had sexual intercourse with him every opportunity they could. The just making out was true for a few minutes. Once she was wet and he was erect, they started making babies the traditional way. If she had become pregnant and he bailed on her, she would have passed off the child as yours.

Your wife is not a strong or moral person. You can have a good marriage, but you will never be able to trust 100 percent. You will have to lead.

The poly is a good way to stimulate a confession. I think you can start by having a deep conversation when you reunite.

Tell her that you want the truth about what happened and you are going try and save your marriage. Without an admission that they had sex, you are entering a false reconciliation.


----------



## Dyokemm

"Poly is about confirmation....not discovery."

No...it can give you discovery.

There is a poster over on SI right now, NotPerfect5 is his handle, who has been posting about his WW's supposed EA for nearly a year and a half.

He was told to poly by other posters because her story just didn't make sense.

He was in denial big time for quite awhile...defended his WW's truthfulness and argued with the other posters for ages.

But he kept catching her in communication with the POSOM who was their daughter's music teacher and in TT about what had been going on.

Finally, he scheduled a poly for her after catching her in February in contact again as other posters, myself included, kept telling him that the story she was giving him reeked of bullsh*t.

Five days before the poly day, she cracked with the first big revelation..... it was a PA one time on the one day she had gone to his hotel room....he had discovered this, but she gaslit him that they only kissed and, of course, she would never do more.

He had actually bought this line and argued with other posters who called bullsh*t.

He insisted she take the poly despite her admission.

On test day, he got a call from the administrator after she had been 3 hours at the appointment. The administrator told him that he was done with the test, but his WW asked for him to delay giving the results until she had a chance to talk to NP5 first....then he would call back with the results later that night.

Well, the WHOLE ugly truth came out...a LT PA with the hotel incident just being the LAST incident of sex.

He did say that the poly confirmed that this was her only A, however, as she passed the questions on other POSOM's.

So, the point of this is that a poly CAN REVEAL the truth, either through admissions right before the test or in the results.


----------



## ConanHub

Thanks Steve. Kind of have a picture. I think you settled buddy, not her. Cheaters don't rank very high.

Hope it hits her how lucky she is that you married her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TRy

freeride376 said:


> I know she is in Europe with her family. She has sent me many pictures. I have been in very close contact with her dad. I know for a surety.
> 
> About when I took my daughter to Idaho and she stayed at her parents house. We live in California. She went to stay at her parents house in Idaho. I dropped her off. I know she was there.


 Each time that she is away from you, gives her the opportunity to spend more time safely communicating with her affair partner. Not that there is anything that you can do about it.


----------



## LongWalk

Will Kane, a very savvy poster who doesn't come round much anymore, said something like, "when the story doesn't make sense, that's because it's incomplete. Once the truth comes out, the puzzle falls into place."


----------



## GusPolinski

LongWalk said:


> Will Kane, a very savvy poster who doesn't come round much anymore, said something like, "when the story doesn't make sense, that's because it's incomplete. Once the truth comes out, the puzzle falls into place."


"If it doesn't make sense, that's because it's not the truth; once you have the truth, it will all make sense."


----------



## workindad

GusPolinski said:


> "If it doesn't make sense, that's because it's not the truth; once you have the truth, it will all make sense."




This was certainly true in my case.


----------



## commonsenseisn't

freeride376 said:


> I actually do see that my old wife is back.
> 
> Now she is back to her old self. !


Or, this may be an indicator that she successfully took the affair underground, likely with a burner phone. After all, she did get 3 or 4 practice attempts to get it right and maybe succeeded this time. Just food for thought.


----------



## commonsenseisn't

freeride376 said:


> She straight up got aggressive and serious with me telling me that they didn't. QUOTE]
> 
> At minimum it's a red flag that points to a deflection technique which in turn indicates that she is more interested in gas lighting you than true reconciliation.
> 
> And did she vehemently swear upon the life of your child she didn't have sex with him? If so, this is a pattern that's been observed in cheaters who are lying.


----------



## ScrambledEggs

Dyokemm said:


> "Poly is about confirmation....not discovery."
> 
> No...it can give you discovery.
> 
> There is a poster over on SI right now, NotPerfect5 is his handle, who has been posting about his WW's supposed EA for nearly a year and a half.
> 
> He was told to poly by other posters because her story just didn't make sense.
> 
> He was in denial big time for quite awhile...defended his WW's truthfulness and argued with the other posters for ages.
> 
> But he kept catching her in communication with the POSOM who was their daughter's music teacher and in TT about what had been going on.
> 
> Finally, he scheduled a poly for her after catching her in February in contact again as other posters, myself included, kept telling him that the story she was giving him reeked of bullsh*t.
> 
> Five days before the poly day, she cracked with the first big revelation..... it was a PA one time on the one day she had gone to his hotel room....he had discovered this, but she gaslit him that they only kissed and, of course, she would never do more.
> 
> He had actually bought this line and argued with other posters who called bullsh*t.
> 
> He insisted she take the poly despite her admission.
> 
> On test day, he got a call from the administrator after she had been 3 hours at the appointment. The administrator told him that he was done with the test, but his WW asked for him to delay giving the results until she had a chance to talk to NP5 first....then he would call back with the results later that night.
> 
> Well, the WHOLE ugly truth came out...a LT PA with the hotel incident just being the LAST incident of sex.
> 
> He did say that the poly confirmed that this was her only A, however, as she passed the questions on other POSOM's.
> 
> So, the point of this is that a poly CAN REVEAL the truth, either through admissions right before the test or in the results.


Right, but I think my point is that once you cross over to the point of forcing your spouse to have a poly, the marriage is over and your just trying to find that place where the lies end and truth begins. If you are that far down the rabbit hole, regardless of the poly results your marriage is finished. All a poly will do is confirm suspicion for forcing anxiety confessions. If it is wiping out doubt in the mind of the BS, I do not think the BS understands what poly does and how it works.

The Truth About Lie Detectors (aka Polygraph Tests)



> The accuracy (i.e., validity) of polygraph testing has long been controversial. An underlying problem is theoretical: *There is no evidence that any pattern of physiological reactions is unique to deception*. An honest person may be nervous when answering truthfully and a dishonest person may be non-anxious. Also, *there are few good studies that validate the ability of polygraph procedures to detect deception*. As Dr. Saxe and Israeli psychologist Gershon Ben-Shahar (1999) note, "it may, in fact, be impossible to conduct a proper validity study." In real-world situations, it's very difficult to know what the truth is.
> 
> A particular problem is that polygraph research has not separated placebo-like effects (the subject's belief in the efficacy of the procedure) from the actual relationship between deception and their physiological responses. One reason that polygraph tests may appear to be accurate is that subjects who believe that the test works and that they can be detected *may confess* or will be very anxious when questioned. If this view is correct, *the lie detector might be better called a fear detector.*





> Most psychologists and other scientists agree that there is little basis for the validity of polygraph tests.


So its a tool for sure, but what will you really prove by going there?


----------



## Dyokemm

"So its a tool for sure, but what will you really prove by going there?"

You get the truth, or at least a large part of it.

Who cares if it comes from the WS's fear of getting dumped?....they should be afraid.

In NP5's case he still wants to try to R....and I'm glad the poly finally cracked his WW, cause if you read his threads (and hers too cause she occasionally posted and tried to gaslight the WS's on their forum over there, and they called her out on her bs too) there was NO WAY he would have ever got her to reveal the truth through any other means....believe me he tried.

And if a BS wants to fix the M, it can only truly be accomplished IMO if the total truth is laid bare.

I think lies from the WS are just a continuation of the A and betrayal....they have no right to the lies if they want the BS to stay with them and save the M.

Maybe NP5 and his WW will make it...maybe they won't.

But at least now he has the truth about what she did as a place to start from.

Personally, I would never try R...I kicked my LTgf to the curb permanently at the conclusion of confronting her.

But if a BS does want to, then I think they HAVE to get the complete truth...anything else is rebuilding on lies and WS's secrets.


----------



## lordmayhem

Dyokemm said:


> In NP5's case he still wants to try to R....and I'm glad the poly finally cracked his WW, cause if you read his threads (and hers too cause she occasionally posted and tried to gaslight the WS's on their forum over there, and they called her out on her bs too) there was NO WAY he would have ever got her to reveal the truth through any other means....believe me he tried.


I read that thread, and sad to say, he's very beta, and almost pathetic. Numerous D-Days, breaking NC over and over again, even busted by her daughter skyping OM, gaslighting, continuing to blameshift (which he accepts the blame). No remorse whatsoever. Any R he tries will be False R. She loves OM that much, and will just take it underground. 

And still he wants R. He claims to be strong and not codependent, but it's obvious that he's not. It took the poly to finally get him to see the light, but he's still in a lot of denial.


----------



## manfromlamancha

What forum in SI is NP5 posting in ?


----------



## Borntohang

Lamancha, it's in "Just Found out".


----------



## ThePheonix

lordmayhem said:


> I read that thread, and sad to say,* he's very beta, and almost pathetic.* Numerous D-Days, breaking NC over and over again, even busted by her daughter skyping OM, gaslighting, continuing to blameshift (which he accepts the blame). No remorse whatsoever. Any R he tries will be False R. She loves OM that much, and will just take it underground.
> 
> And still he wants R. He claims to be strong and not codependent, but it's obvious that he's not. It took the poly to finally get him to see the light, but he's still in a lot of denial.


My observation is there's a point where men cross the line from being beta, (that contributed to there situation) to self castration. This one has crossed well over that line.


----------



## bandit.45

lordmayhem said:


> I read that thread, and sad to say, he's very beta, and almost pathetic. Numerous D-Days, breaking NC over and over again, even busted by her daughter skyping OM, gaslighting, continuing to blameshift (which he accepts the blame). No remorse whatsoever. Any R he tries will be False R. She loves OM that much, and will just take it underground.
> 
> And still he wants R. He claims to be strong and not codependent, but it's obvious that he's not. It took the poly to finally get him to see the light, but he's still in a lot of denial.


Read his WW's thread over in Wayward section. Her name is Edith I think. 

She is a sociopath if I have ever seen one. Total entitlement. Even the other waywards can't stand her.


----------



## sapientia

Freeride - I haven't read the entire thread, but I'm sorry for your loss.

And I do mean your loss. Someone else posted a very excellent thread called (paraphrasing) "Just Let Them Go", which I think ultimately always applies in these situations.

Your wife wants to go. Let her. Good choice or not, it's her life and decision. Fighting this will only prolong both your suffering.

What you are grieving is not really the loss of your wife, but of your ideal of what your marriage to a loving, trustworthy, faithful and loyal partner should be like. That's gone, forever, and your wife is not the person who can ever give you this. It's just not who she is and there is no point to try and change her. Now you must detach as quickly as possible so you can find a new partner and live a life that meets your ideal.

I'm a convert to the 180. It worked so well for me. It will work for you too. I hope you find new happiness soon.


----------



## LongWalk

Great that SI and TAM provide two servings of the same shxt sandwich.

Edith is not working hard on SI.

Some waywards surf on to sites like TAM, SI, etc and learn what should write and say to sound committed to R.

1) Some are flat out liars;
2) Some don't have the strength;
3) Some have started a new faze of their lives but cannot come out and say it;
4) Not all BS are inspiring;

Life is complicated and cheating doesn't make it easier.

One of the worst things to read is when a wayward says that their BS has changed, i.e., has been damaged by the betrayal, so they feel guilt over this. They are degraded and their spouse has had the stuffing knocked out.

OP really needs to stick to Edith. She respects strength.


----------



## sapientia

Wow, the WW is posting her side on another forum? Geeze, that's ballsy, crazy, and, well, I've never heard of such. 

You posters are incredible to track all that. Kudos to you for your level of support for the OP. I could never keep all that straight.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Borntohang said:


> Lamancha, it's in "Just Found out".


Thank you - incredible thread and also the one from his stbxw Edith!!


----------



## GusPolinski

Sooo... wait a second...

Whose WW are we talking about being in the WS forum over on SI... OP's WW or this NP5 guy's WW?


----------



## ConanHub

GusPolinski said:


> Sooo... wait a second...
> 
> Whose WW are we talking about being in the WS forum over on SI... OP's WW or this NP5 guy's WW?


NP5. We should stick to this guy and his situation with his ww.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thor

Yeah if it isn't OP's wife then this is an unhelpful derailment to be discussing threads from an entirely different website.


----------



## GusPolinski

ConanHub said:


> NP5. We should stick to this guy and his situation with his ww.





Thor said:


> Yeah if it isn't OP's wife then this is an unhelpful derailment to be discussing threads from an entirely different website.


:iagree:


----------



## bandit.45

Yeah you all need to knock that crap off.


----------



## GusPolinski

bandit.45 said:


> Yeah you all need to knock that crap off.


LOL... shouldn't you be driving?


----------



## bandit.45

I'm at a Starbucks on the west side of SA getting fueled up.


----------



## GusPolinski

bandit.45 said:


> I'm at a Starbucks on the west side of SA getting fueled up.


You're probably within no more than 20 minutes of Casa de Gus.

Drive safely!


----------



## bandit.45

I see why you live here Gus. 

Better looking women.


----------



## Dogbert

Mi casa, es su casa. Pero no mi esposa.


----------



## bandit.45

Dogbert said:


> Mi casa, es su casa. Pero no mi esposa.


Poe que no? I pago bien....


----------



## turnera

drifting on said:


> freeride376
> 
> I post this because you are on the fence on whether or not you can get over this as it stands with what you know now. My WW first admitted to lunch and that OM was just a friend. Then it was multiple lunches. Then it was we held hands once. Then it was we kissed once. Then it was we kissed and groped once. Then it was we had sex once. Then it was we had sex twice. Reality is it was an EA that went to PA that lasted six months. Believe nothing she says, contact OMW, verify everything. Do not tell your wife you are telling OMW. To find her look in anything regarding public records. Good luck to you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This. Talking means kissing. Kissing means making out. Making out means PIV sex. It's just how it is. 

IIWY, I would set up a polygraph and tell her when it is. Most likely, she will tell you the REAL truth on the way to the polygraph appointment. No matter what happens IN the polygraph, for some reason people fear being caught out on that machine, and often tell you more on the way there so they can say 'see? I told you everything!'

You're also in marriage counseling, right?


----------



## turnera

bandit.45 said:


> Poe que no? I pago bien....


Hey, rude much?! lol

Be safe, bandit, don't want to lose our newest resident. 

Who am I kidding? We're the fastest growing city in the country; we've probably gained 20,000 new people since you moved here.


----------



## bandit.45

turnera said:


> Hey, rude much?! lol
> 
> Be safe, bandit, don't want to lose our newest resident.
> 
> Who am I kidding? We're the fastest growing city in the country; we've probably gained 20,000 new people since you moved here.



Me? Rude?


Yep.


I made it all the way to Deming NM in 15 hours. Going without sleep is such fun.


----------



## happyman64

bandit.45 said:


> Me? Rude?
> 
> 
> Yep.
> 
> 
> I made it all the way to Deming NM in 15 hours. Going without sleep is such fun.


Safe drive back and keep your eyes on the road. Not on the cuties....


----------



## Thor

https://youtu.be/-cHaufA26B8

This song definitely inspired by Texas women.


----------



## jim123

Freeride,

BH on this site complain about the WW and the lies they told. This happens because they allow it. You know the truth. She is not in Jr. High. Two adults do not just make out five times and nothing else.

Call out the BS. Tell her without the truth there is no chance. Do not accept answers you know are lies.


----------



## bandit.45

I think Freeride freerode out of here...


----------



## GusPolinski

bandit.45 said:


> I see why you live here Gus.
> 
> Better looking women.


:::looks over shoulder:::

*cough* noideawhatyou'retalkingabout


----------



## jnj express

Hey freeride---a couple of things---as to the POLY---go down to your local police precinct---they will line you up with a good reliable POLY OPERATER

Make her sign a POST NUP---that needs to be a condition, of this mge getting into R

From what I have read----you seem to be doing a good part of the hard work----all the things you have done especially in re:--her lover she should have done with a forceful NC LETTER

Take away her cellphone---people have lived for thousands of years on this planet---WITHOUT cellphones and gotten along very nicely---do not allow her access to a computer, in case she tries to fill the void created by no cellphone----if she really needs to make a call, she can use a land line, and no matter what if she wants to continue contact with him---as was stated above by Mayhem---all she needs to is get a burner.

As to her being her old self----THAT DOES NOT MEAN SHE IS NOT STILL CHEATING---she just may be leading you on, so as to cover her cheating, as you say she seems to be getting better at covering her tracks each time she is caught

You need to do a hard 180---and cut out the sex etc with her for now, no physical contact what so ever-------otherwise, all you are really doing is saying to her---go head cheat on me 4 times----I will keep on taking you back

It is on HER, to do ALL the heavy lifting---show heavy remorse, and show she is accountable

As to her being a great mother---that is pure BS----A GREAT MOTHER WOULD NOT HAVE AN A. AND KNOWINGLY PUT HER MGE, AND CHILD'S FUTURE WELL BEING IN JEOPARADY---BY LYING TO HER H ON FOUR SEPERATE OCCASIONS----A GOOD MOTHER WOULD NOT PARK IN A PARKING LOT GET IN ANOTHER MAN'S CAR AND MAKE OUT WITH HIM---A GOOD MOTHER WOULD NOT TELL ANOTHER MAN SHE LOVES HIM-----at this point your wife is a HORRIBLE MOTHER


----------



## ThePheonix

bandit.45 said:


> I think Freeride freerode out of here...


It your fault Bandit. You need to drop the requirement that he have the stones to do what needs to be done.


----------



## freeride376

I haven't free rode out of here. I have been reading everything. There has been good input and I appreciate everything.


----------



## arbitrator

bandit.45 said:


> turnera said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, rude much?! lol
> 
> Be safe, bandit, don't want to lose our newest resident.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who am I kidding? We're the fastest growing city in the country; we've probably gained 20,000 new people since you moved here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Me? Rude?
> 
> 
> Yep.
> 
> 
> I made it all the way to Deming NM in 15 hours. Going without sleep is such fun.
Click to expand...

* Be careful out on that roadway, Bandito, more especially while that upper level low pressure system is seemingly taking up residence in this end of the world and supplying us all with this endless plethora of "liquid sunshine!"

Meanwhile, I'll just make good and sure that the local porker population stays constant up here!*


----------



## PBDad

arbitrator said:


> * Be careful out on that roadway, Bandito, more especially while that upper level low pressure system is seemingly taking up residence in this end of the world and supplying us all with this endless plethora of "liquid sunshine!"
> 
> Meanwhile, I'll just make good and sure that the local porker population stays constant up here!*


Always a problem when theres more women than booze...


----------



## GusPolinski

PBDad said:


> Always a problem when theres more women than booze...


Funny, but I believe that arb was referring to the local feral hog population...

Texas counties post, increase bounties for feral hogs - MRT.com: State & Nation


----------



## happyman64

freeride376 said:


> I haven't free rode out of here. I have been reading everything. There has been good input and I appreciate everything.


Glad your still here.


----------



## Dogbert

bandit.45 said:


> Poe que no? I pago bien....


:rofl:

Neighbors with benefits.


----------



## PBDad

GusPolinski said:


> Funny, but I believe that arb was referring to the local feral hog population...
> 
> Texas counties post, increase bounties for feral hogs - MRT.com: State & Nation


Yah, I know. *but this is Bandit.45 Yah know. Colt even.

Dangerous place when Bandito's getting the lay of the land..

Oh the levels of humor...!


----------



## bandit.45

PBDad said:


> Yah, I know. *but this is Bandit.45 Yah know. Colt even.
> 
> Dangerous place when Bandito's getting the lay of the land..
> 
> Oh the levels of humor...!


I have my CZ 6.5x55 rifle with me now. It likes pork.


----------



## PBDad

bandit.45 said:


> I have my CZ 6.5x55 rifle with me now. It likes pork.


WAH! Straight and flat shooter! nice.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Thor said:


> https://youtu.be/-cHaufA26B8
> 
> This song definitely inspired by Texas women.


Rest in Peace...Cousin Mel.
In his bus at the head of his bed...he had a full wall mural of John Wayne.


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## bandit.45

PBDad said:


> WAH! Straight and flat shooter! nice.


She's my baby.
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## bandit.45

Divinely Favored said:


> Rest in Peace...Cousin Mel.
> In his bus at the head of his bed...he had a full wall mural of John Wayne.


How badass would that be?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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