# Anyone disagrees with transparency?



## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

Husbands... 

1. Do you believe in transparency?
2. Have you refused your wife to see your cellphone/text messages?
3. Refused find my friends or a tracking app?
4. Do you think it's ok to have friends of the opposite sex?
5. Have you ever had a innocent but inappropriate relationship with another women?

What if your wife doesn't trust you, but from your perspective you haven't done anything wrong? Do you feel it is your duty to make your wife feel safe and prove your a trusting man or do you think that because you are her husband you should be trusted and given the benefit of the doubt?


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

1) Yes, I believe that and husband and wife should have nothing to hide from one another
2) My wife is on my cell phone all the time and sees all my messages
3) If she wants to put a tracking app on my phone that's fine but she has total access to everything anyway
4) It depends on your definition of friend. The only female friends I have are mutual with my wife.
5) Never

We have a terrible marriage and whether she trusts me or not I don't know. She has problems with lying so trust is one of our issues. Does she feel safe as far as me going off with someone else? I have no idea what she thinks, I have certainly have never given her reason to think so.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

katiecrna said:


> Husbands...
> 
> 1. Do you believe in transparency?
> 2. Have you refused your wife to see your cellphone/text messages?
> ...




1-absolutely
2-a little - she doesn't like me on TAM ha ha because maybe she thinks we'll catch something
3-never
4-no - OS friends become friends of the couple or go bye bye. Single OS friends - I can't imagine
5-not that I'm aware of. My w would tell me if it started to happen (women started to cross a line that I didn't recognize because, well, I'm a guy) because any OS relationship would be fully visible to my W

Both yes and no. I would tell her it's nonsense and why, but I'd thereafter be sensitive to whatever she perceived as threatening and make sure I respect her feelings going forward. 

We've had this discussion a few times (decades together so not typical) where I was shocked she felt she couldn't say something to me. So not trust about something outside the relationship but trust about talking about something. My reaction was that her NOT talking about something for fear of my reaction is codependency, manipulation, and unfair. Made me angry. So I've come down pretty strong on the rare occasion that this has come up. I've told her I can't worry about her reaction to my reaction - that's crazy. I don't know if that's the right reaction, but I also know pandering to her fear of my reaction to her is only reinforcing a bad dynamic. But this is very rare. So if there is an issue in my marriage it's based on me being slightly too aggressive and her slightly too passive at times - but very very rarely (unless she's not telling me out of fear but I ask often to be sure)


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

I wonder if age changes these answers. I think the younger people are against transparency and find it offensive and controlling.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

katiecrna said:


> 3. Refused find my friends or a tracking app?


Hell no, I want my cocktail to be ready when I get home.

I'm pro transparency, her finger print is in my phone. We really only have couples friends, but I don't think I be cool with OSFs.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

CharlieParker said:


> Hell no, I want my cocktail to be ready when I get home.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pro transparency, her finger print is in my phone. We really only have couples friends, but I don't think I be cool with OSFs.




What's OSF?


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

katiecrna said:


> What's OSF?


Opposite Sex Friends


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

katiecrna said:


> Husbands...


1. Do you believe in transparency? * Yes, but I think there may be limits because I believe in a right to personal privacy, except when there are suspicious behaviors.
2. Have you refused your wife to see your cellphone/text messages? * No; but we share a cell phone, so we can see everything, anyway.
3. Refused find my friends or a tracking app? * Never refused, but probably would refuse, unless there is a good reason to invade privacy. (And since we share a phone, there really is no need.)
4. Do you think it's ok to have friends of the opposite sex? * Yes. We both have OSFs; most - but not all - are mutual friends.
5. Have you ever had a innocent but inappropriate relationship with another women? * No. But we have an open/poly relationship, so we've had appropriate - but sometimes far from "innocent" - outside relationships.

What if your wife doesn't trust you, but from your perspective you haven't done anything wrong? Do you feel it is your duty to make your wife feel safe and prove your a trusting man or do you think that because you are her husband you should be trusted and given the benefit of the doubt? * If she thinks she has good reason not to trust me, I'd work with her to prove her wrong. However, if that isn't enough or she's not convinced, she can choose to leave. If she wants to renegotiate our agreements about friends, poly, etc., I would do so, but would not _necessarily_ agree to anything she wants, especially if I have not broken any of our agreements.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

katiecrna said:


> Husbands...


*1. Do you believe in transparency?*

I'm agnostic.

*2. Have you refused your wife to see your cellphone/text messages?*

No.

*3. Refused find my friends or a tracking app?*

No.

*4. Do you think it's ok to have friends of the opposite sex?*

Yes.

*5. Have you ever had a innocent but inappropriate relationship with another women?*

No.

*What if your wife doesn't trust you, but from your perspective you haven't done anything wrong?*

Then her mistrust would be misplaced.

*Do you feel it is your duty to make your wife feel safe and prove your a trusting man or do you think that because you are her husband you should be trusted and given the benefit of the doubt?*

I don't feel any compulsion to prove anything to my wife.

If my wife didn't trust me and had no legitimate reason to not trust me, I would not be inclined to humour such nonsense.

If my wife had a legitimate reason not to trust me as proven through my actions, she would be right not to trust me.

I don't expect my wife to trust me or not trust me. If she feels she can trust me she will, if she feels she can't trust me she won't.


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## AtMyEnd (Feb 20, 2017)

katiecrna said:


> Husbands...
> 
> 1. Do you believe in transparency?
> 2. Have you refused your wife to see your cellphone/text messages?
> ...


I do believe in transparency, but my wife does not. She feels she's entitled to her privacy.
I have let my wife look through my phone but she has outright refused to let me look at her phone on more than one occasion.
I do think it's ok to have friends of the opposite sex, as long as I know them or have at least met them on more than one occasion.
I have had an innocent but inappropriate relationship with another woman, as my wife has with another man.

The problem is in my situation is that yes I've done things that my wife thought were inappropriate. When she confronted me about them I was an open book about them, I didn't lie and didn't hide anything. When I've confronted my wife about the same, she's refused to talk about it and just denied she did anything wrong even after telling her or showing her what I knew. Our situation has gotten much better over the last few months but it's still hard to rebuild trust when it still feels things are being hidden.


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## vauxhall101 (Jul 23, 2017)

I think you are already weighting the question slightly by calling it 'transparency'. Equally you could ask, anyone agree with spying? 

1. Yes and no. When a woman asks 'does my bum look big in this?', she doesn't necessarily want the complete truth. 

2. No, but she has never asked, and I would be offended if she did - not because there is anything contentious there, but because why should she have the right to see them in the name of 'transparency'? I'm not a child, she's not my mother. Same goes for me seeing her messages. 

3. Don't actually know what this is! But I can guess. No, but, same as above. 

4. Yes. I think it is unrealistic to say that once you are married, you cannot be anything other than acquaintances with half the human population. But it really depends on your definition of "friends". 

5. Not entirely sure what this means, but I guess, yes, I have had relationships with women that my wife has objected to, which were perfectly 'innocent', in the sense that they were in no way sexual or flirtatious. So my wife would claim they were 'inappropriate', but I would disagree. I still have to talk to people, and I'm afraid that some of them will be female people. 

I do get very upset by the 'you're guilty until you prove yourself innocent.......every day' attitude that some women have. I also would object to not having "done anything wrong from _my perspective_" - if I actually haven't done anything, haven't flirted with another woman, made inappropriate remarks or anything of that nature, my 'perspective' has nothing to do with it. Your partner should trust you if you've given them no reason not to, or it's their issue. I don't feel like I have to constantly check on my wife to see whether 'she has done anything wrong'.


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## AtMyEnd (Feb 20, 2017)

katiecrna said:


> I wonder if age changes these answers. I think the younger people are against transparency and find it offensive and controlling.


I agree with you on that. My wife is 6 years younger than me and kind of at that generation gap. She finds transparency as an invasion of her privacy and controlling. I look at it is what's the difference? If you don't have anything to hide then what's the problem? And even if you have something to hide and get caught, it's better to tell the truth about and have thing out in the open if you want to try and fix a problem. If the problem is never truly addressed than it can never truly be solved.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

vauxhall101 said:


> 5. Not entirely sure what this means, but I guess, yes, I have had relationships with women that my wife has objected to, which were perfectly 'innocent', in the sense that they were in no way sexual or flirtatious. So my wife would claim they were 'inappropriate', but I would disagree. I still have to talk to people, and I'm afraid that some of them will be female people.
> 
> 
> 
> I do get very upset by the 'you're guilty until you prove yourself innocent.......every day' attitude that some women have. I also would object to not having "done anything wrong from _my perspective_" - if I actually haven't done anything, haven't flirted with another woman, made inappropriate remarks or anything of that nature, my 'perspective' has nothing to do with it. Your partner should trust you if you've given them no reason not to, or it's their issue. I don't feel like I have to constantly check on my wife to see whether 'she has done anything wrong'.




Perspective does have something to do with it because what if your wife thinks it's inappropriate to have friends of the opposite sex? Because you disagree with her means that your allowed to have friends of the opposite Sex and she has to be ok with that? Perspective comes to play because what you think is inappropriate may be different than what she thinks is inappropriate... and therefore she could be not trusting you because to her your doing something wrong but to your not from your point of view. 

That's where the problems arise. Differences of opinions and what you do about that. Because some would say that if your doing x,y,z and your wife expresses she thinks that's inappropriate but you don't... some would say that you don't care/respect her feelings if you aren't willing to do something to alleviate that distrust. But others will argue that she is just controlling.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

I think this is a marriage destroyer. When 2 people have different opinions about what is appropriate what is the correct answer? Do you just fold and do what they want... or is that controlling. Or do you just disagree and stick to your guns..: but that leaves the other person feeling insecure, unsafe, and certainly not close to their partner. I can understand both perspectives. 

But me being a women and being who I am... I favor transparency and adjusting your behavior to make your spouse feel safe. Fighting and protesting not to change despite your spouses feelings seems mean. 

But I find it interesting that women that have affairs or seek emotional support from another man... is usually because they yearn to be understood, appreciated, validated etc. My husband never folded and always proclaimed to be doing nothing wrong and wouldn't change his behavior despite my feelings made me feel terrible, like she didn't love me, respect me or care about my feelings. While he felt controlled and not respected because of my distrust.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

AtMyEnd said:


> I do believe in transparency, but my wife does not. She feels she's entitled to her privacy.
> 
> I have let my wife look through my phone but she has outright refused to let me look at her phone on more than one occasion.
> 
> ...




Don't you think your marriage would improve and you would feel better if she just stopped hiding things? I feel like something so small would make such a big difference but for some reason it's so hard for some people to be 100% open and transparent.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

katiecrna said:


> I wonder if age changes these answers. I think the younger people are against transparency and find it offensive and controlling.


You might be right about that as they didn't grow up in a time in which every home had one landline. Before my lifetime, my parents even experienced having a "party line" meaning that you shared a line with several neighbors and everyone could pick up the phone and listening in on each others calls. 

My wife and I both have total access to each other's smart phones and email accounts. I would not want to be in a marriage in which these things could not be shared. If I found out that she had installed a tracking gps app on my phone, I would be amused because she's definitely not the possessive/controlling type. 

Regarding op sex friends. That's a tricky one. She has a group of friends from college that she corresponds with occasionally by social media. She knew those people long before she knew me and I can see that there is nothing there for me to be concerned about. The five males in that group are all married and live far away. They have a one meal reunion every two years. 

I have a few female friends at work, but since being married, I never go outside with them unless my wife is with us.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

katiecrna said:


> 3. Refused find my friends or a tracking app?


My wife can look at anything of mine that she wants to, but I specifically wanted to address this one: no way.

I already feel like my phone is an electronic leash, particularly wrt to work. Recently I feel like I'm on call 24/7, and I chafe a bit because of it. My wife has never indicated any kind of desire to add these apps, but if she did she'd better have a fantastic reason.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

Personal said:


> *1.
> 
> Then her mistrust would be misplaced.
> 
> ...


*


So your saying your wife's feelings are nonsense unless there is legitimate proof that it's ok to be feeling the way she does? 

Your saying that feelings can be wrong essentially.*


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

GTdad said:


> My wife can look at anything of mine that she wants to, but I specifically wanted to address this one: no way.
> 
> 
> 
> I already feel like my phone is an electronic leash, particularly wrt to work. Recently I feel like I'm on call 24/7, and I chafe a bit because of it. My wife has never indicated any kind of desire to add these apps, but if she did she'd better have a fantastic reason.




Please explain. Your phone is an electronic lease... why? Are you prevented from doing certain things because your wife has access to it? Or is your wife constantly checking your phone? Why does this give you added stress?


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

katiecrna said:


> But me being a women and being who I am... I favor transparency and adjusting your behavior to make your spouse feel safe. Fighting and protesting not to change despite your spouses feelings seems mean.


At the end of the day, we can either try to make our spouses feel safe or we can tell them that they are unreasonable. I had always believed that it is better to error on the side of warmth and patience. However, that contradicts with the premise of never letting your spouse get too comfortable and take you for granted. I no longer know which answer is better.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

katiecrna said:


> Please explain. Your phone is an electronic lease... why? Are you prevented from doing certain things because your wife has access to it? Or is your wife constantly checking your phone? Why does this give you added stress?


Well, it's an electronic leash in the sense that I'm always accessible, except maybe when I "forget" to take it with me. Call me a contrarian, but I don't WANT to always be accessible, except maybe to family.

But your other questions make me think that maybe we aren't talking about the same thing. I thought you were specifically asking how we felt about tracking apps on our phone, something that a person, my wife or otherwise, could use to find out where I'm at at any given time. I'd have a problem with that because I'd feel like I was living under a microscope. I wouldn't be okay with that.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

GTdad said:


> Well, it's an electronic leash in the sense that I'm always accessible, except maybe when I "forget" to take it with me. Call me a contrarian, but I don't WANT to always be accessible, except maybe to family.
> 
> 
> 
> But your other questions make me think that maybe we aren't talking about the same thing. I thought you were specifically asking how we felt about tracking apps on our phone, something that a person, my wife or otherwise, could use to find out where I'm at at any given time. I'd have a problem with that because I'd feel like I was living under a microscope. I wouldn't be okay with that.




I appreciate your perspective. My husband would always say that he felt controlled and under a microscope which is why he refused find my friends. My perspective was always if you have nothing to hide you wouldn't care. However my husband had multiple red flags which is why I didn't trust him, and he refused to give me an inch. This drove my paranoia up. But I'm 99.9% sure he cheated on me even though I don't have the evidence. 

I guess I always thought if you have nothing to hide it wouldn't bother you being "under a microscope".


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

katiecrna said:


> I appreciate your perspective. My husband would always say that he felt controlled and under a microscope which is why he refused find my friends. My perspective was always if you have nothing to hide you wouldn't care. However my husband had multiple red flags which is why I didn't trust him, and he refused to give me an inch. This drove my paranoia up. But I'm 99.9% sure he cheated on me even though I don't have the evidence.
> 
> I guess I always thought if you have nothing to hide it wouldn't bother you being "under a microscope".


If my wife didn't trust me, I'd rather talk about that than phone apps. But it cuts both ways: I wouldn't dream of putting some app on my wife's phone so I always knew where she was at. Unless a person is demonstrably untrustworthy, I think they deserve a certain zone of privacy. The boundaries of that zone reasonably differ from couple to couple.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

katiecrna said:


> So your saying your wife's feelings are nonsense unless there is legitimate proof that it's ok to be feeling the way she does?
> 
> Your saying that feelings can be wrong essentially.


Of course feelings can be wrong.

If my wife believes foolish things, then her belief in such things would be nonsensical.

If my wife or I didn't trust each other because one of us has proven to be untrustworthy, that would be sensible. On the other hand if my wife or I didn't trust each other, because our judgement was flawed or our feelings were misplaced, that would be nonsensical.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

katiecrna said:


> I think this is a marriage destroyer. When 2 people have different opinions about what is appropriate what is the correct answer? Do you just fold and do what they want... or is that controlling. Or do you just disagree and stick to your guns..: but that leaves the other person feeling insecure, unsafe, and certainly not close to their partner. I can understand both perspectives.


Trying to reach a compromise is the best approach. However, if you simply can't agree, you have to respect that - and if there is no inappropriate behavior, then trying to force the other person to accept your position IS controlling. If that leaves them feeling insecure, etc., that then becomes their issue to deal with, and if they can't, IMO that's dysfunctional. They could leave, of course. I will not compromise my integrity for an unfounded suspicion, after having tried to reach a workable compromise. I suppose there are some issues where I wouldn't even negotiate, if the request is too intrusive or controlling, but that would be pretty extreme.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

katiecrna said:


> I appreciate your perspective. My husband would always say that he felt controlled and under a microscope which is why he refused find my friends. My perspective was always if you have nothing to hide you wouldn't care. However my husband had multiple red flags which is why I didn't trust him, and he refused to give me an inch. This drove my paranoia up. But I'm 99.9% sure he cheated on me even though I don't have the evidence.
> 
> I guess I always thought if you have nothing to hide it wouldn't bother you being "under a microscope".


Before I met my H, I was in a serious LTR with a guy who I had thought I was going to marry. He displayed a lot of the same traits as your H...lots of time tied up with work, but he didn't truly have to work as much as he did. He always seemed to have something really important going on, that never included me. Honestly, I have no idea if he was really at work at all most of the time. 

I ended the relationship at year number 4. I had a gut instinct something was going on, and yea he was probably cheating. I had the alarms going off in my head. But I didn't dig for evidence of it, because it really didn't matter. He wasn't meeting my needs, neither of us were happy, and it appeared that he clearly did not enjoy spending time with me or else he would have made it more of a priority. Whether or not I found evidence of cheating, I knew I had to get out and that the end result would be the same. I left and never went back. I never found out whether he did or didn't cheat on me.

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## AtMyEnd (Feb 20, 2017)

katiecrna said:


> Don't you think your marriage would improve and you would feel better if she just stopped hiding things? I feel like something so small would make such a big difference but for some reason it's so hard for some people to be 100% open and transparent.


I totally do and I have told her that I don't know how many times now but she won't change. Even at the height of our problems I said to her "What's the point of hiding things or not talking about them? All that's going to do is cause questions and unnecessary tension." Her response was the same, "My phone and conversations are private and I value my privacy". And even though I can say that things have gotten better between us, I still don't feel I can trust her 100%. There are still little things that happen or I notice that make me question her but I know if I bring them up she'll get upset that I'm "keeping tabs" on her. My marriage is basically at the point of our issues with each other and things things each of us have done are out in the open. Although she hasn't admitted that she's done anything wrong, she knows that I know about the things she's done, she knows I don't trust her and she knows I'm not going to stand for it.

I've reached the point where I'm just done and she knows that, things are civil, friendly and improving every day. At the same time I know that I'm not in any place to jump into a new relationship or start dating again, so why not just stay together for the sake of our son and live my life the way I want to live it. If things continue to improve and we reach the point that it's really a marriage again that's great. I've spent 15 years of my life with her, built a great life together, millions of memories and have an amazing son. But if things start to go the other way again, mentally and financially, I'm ready to just walk away.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

katiecrna said:


> (1) My perspective was always if you have nothing to hide you wouldn't care.
> 
> (2) However my husband had multiple red flags which is why I didn't trust him, and he refused to give me an inch. This drove my paranoia up. But I'm 99.9% sure he cheated on me even though I don't have the evidence.


1) Then having an always-on, broadcasting webcam in your bedroom would be fine? If you have nothing to hide, why would you care who sees? But wait, you value _some_ privacy, perhaps?

2) This changes things. You have legitimate, reasonable suspicions, and if he won't work with you to resolve them, then whether or not he's innocent, IMO you could - and should - leave.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

Personal said:


> Of course feelings can be wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




What is proven to be untrustworthy? A lot of people do untrustworthy behavior but they aren't caught. 

I just disagree with you. It's not like oh I caught my husband having sex with another women therefore he is proven to be untrustworthy. Most of the time it's little things that alert you that something untrustworthy is going on. Little hints that could be nothing, or could be the tip of the iceberg. 

A man clutching to his cell phone and never putting it down can be a hint. It's not proven untrustworthy but it could be something. If I ask hey why do you never put your phone down, and I ask to see it... the man can get defensive and cry you don't trust me, your controlling. 
My point is when someone is finally caught doing something untrustworthy... they usually drop small little hints way before. And the person can play the your controlling me card, you should trust me card and turning it around on the other person when they are indeed guilty.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

Married but Happy said:


> 1) Then having an always-on, broadcasting webcam in your bedroom would be fine? If you have nothing to hide, why would you care who sees? But wait, you value _some_ privacy, perhaps?
> 
> 
> 
> 2) This changes things. You have legitimate, reasonable suspicions, and if he won't work with you to resolve them, then whether or not he's innocent, IMO you could - and should - leave.




I do have reasonable suspicions but he disagrees with that. He says there is nothing wrong with his behavior and it's not wrong or inappropriate or whatever. He plays the controlling card and the I should just trust him card. 
My point is that usually one person thinks they have legit reasons to suspect whatever, while the other person disagrees. 

And I have left him.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I was really wondering where this was going.

I need to address two forms of flawed thinking that are happening here. Both of them are quite common. Then I will wrap it up with some advice.

The first is the notion that the opinions of strangers, or friends or even extended family should all be weighed equally when making a relationship decision. It is a very democratic idea that makes no sense in the real world. The only voters in this particular situation are Katie, and Mr Katie. There is no point in recruiting anyone else on to a "team" to enforce your opinion. if you are just checking rationality, you picked a pretty warped group of distrustful men to poll.

The Second flawed thinking is making feelings equal to facts. The question is a bit more murky here because Katie has more than "feelings" but for some reasons wants to label her founded suspicions as feelings. That is really at the heart of the trouble here. Feelings have too many definitions. This leads to the all to common advice to follow your intuition, or that women's intuition is "always" right. Which is pure and simple bunk. Eye witnesses edit their own memories to fit their world view. we are very talented at fooling ourselves. even more so when we feel under attack. Katie should weigh her evidence by it's value and not simply give it a label that she feels is easier to defend.

OK to the advice. Katie, you have made, or actually are still in the process of finalizing a decision to dissolve a relationship. You keep coming in for reassurance because this is a hard thing to decide to do. My advice to you is these, First Relationships are made up of Trust. when trust is broken, unsupported, or misplaced, the relationship is also broken, unsupported, or inappropriate. In effect what I am saying is that the fact that you cannot trust this man with out elaborate proofs that he is unwilling to give, is evidence that the relationship is already dissolving by itself. Second, We get into relationships to gain Happiness. My observation is that you have not been happy for quite some time. The relationship has failed to provide you with your emotional needs. You are not happy, the relationship has already failed. 

Note: upon rereading this feels a little sloppy, but I don't have time to fix it. I think all the important bits are n there.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Great post @katiecrna!

I absolutely believe a couple should be transparent to their SO

The TAM people who are opposed to this have it completely backward - it CAN'T be controlling because it's voluntary.

Transparency is something you give if you respect and love your spouse. 

Hiding things and keeping things private is an act that says "this area of my life is none of your business". To me that's total BS - and that doesn't mean I look or pry into anything at all. It means I am comfortable that I'm not being played.

Why would anyone even get married or be in a LTR if they didn't want to share their lives, thoughts, loves, concerns, passions or pain? Might as well hang out with the boys or girls and just be with the OS for hookups and +1 events

A related question might be "do you keep a separate credit card or bank account?"

If I'm in I'm all in. Or else I'm out. I've got nothing to hide.

BTW the big stipulation is that you must love and respect each other, and accept that you may not agree with everything but are entitled to know. For example I went to strip joints often while traveling. I always told my w before and called her after. Neither of us ever had any concerns about crossing boundaries. Did she "like" that I went? IDK I suspect not but she trusted me and I gave her no reason to be concerned. So transparency should be coupled with open dialog and limited judgements. Pick your battles. If it was a huge issue that I went to strip clubs she would have said something. And if she would have said something I would not have gone. But if you love and respect your SO you don't play those cards unless it's a real issue 


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Katie,
Do you believe that you showed his mother the level of compassion - that you wanted K2 to show you?





katiecrna said:


> I think this is a marriage destroyer. When 2 people have different opinions about what is appropriate what is the correct answer? Do you just fold and do what they want... or is that controlling. Or do you just disagree and stick to your guns..: but that leaves the other person feeling insecure, unsafe, and certainly not close to their partner. I can understand both perspectives.
> 
> But me being a women and being who I am... I favor transparency and adjusting your behavior to make your spouse feel safe. Fighting and protesting not to change despite your spouses feelings seems mean.
> 
> But I find it interesting that women that have affairs or seek emotional support from another man... is usually because they yearn to be understood, appreciated, validated etc. My husband never folded and always proclaimed to be doing nothing wrong and wouldn't change his behavior despite my feelings made me feel terrible, like she didn't love me, respect me or care about my feelings. While he felt controlled and not respected because of my distrust.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

TheTruthHurts said:


> A related question might be "do you keep a separate credit card or bank account?"


Separate or secret? We have separate accounts and cards (even though we are "one pot" people), but we do know about them.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Transparency is good when everything else in the marriage is good. If not, it's a nice way to martyrdom but nothing more.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

MEM2020 said:


> Katie,
> 
> Do you believe that you showed his mother the level of compassion - that you wanted K2 to show you?




What are you asking me?


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

CharlieParker said:


> Separate or secret? We have separate accounts and cards (even though we are "one pot" people), but we do know about them.




Yes I just meant separate. I never understood keeping separate finances. I do understand finance, but I can't understand why anyone would double the work of taking care of finance. (I work in the financial services area not that it really matters.). Plus it doesn't make sense if there are family financial goals.

Then again we aren't really consumers but are savers and don't have many needs. I suppose if one or more in the couple were spenders the theory could be that there would be fights about priorities if both are spending, particularly if you are living up to or beyond your means.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

It is an easy question. 

Did you treat your MIL with the same level of compassion that you want from K2? 

On a totally separate note: There is an inverse correlation between the number of threads someone creates and the benefit they obtain from TAM. The best way to get high quality feedback is to create one thread with a high quality original post - and then add to that thread as events unfold. 




katiecrna said:


> What are you asking me?


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

No one is stupid enough to cheat from their primary cell phone, Facebook account, primary email address anymore. Burner phones, work email accounts, other tricks is what a cheater is going to do so transparency guarantees nothing.

If my wife has to review my phone, texts, emails daily to ensure I'm not cheating I would just prefer a divorce and to move on. That's no way to live.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

MEM2020 said:


> It is an easy question.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yes I was beyond good to my MIL. I would love to be treated that way by my daughter in law.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Ok Katie,

I believe you. I do. That said, my viewpoint is not important. So let's triangulate. I will share why I asked that question and you will share how your MIL is behaving during this period of separation.

My comments were all driven by a conflict that appeared to be related to a specific holiday. Your in laws wanted to come visit. You didn't want them to. The crux of the matter appeared to be connected to cooking. You had to work during the day that cooking was needed. Your MIL wanted to cook while you worked. You said something along the lines of: I absolutely hate having other people in my kitchen, so I am not going to allow them to come. Your tone - seemed combative - and you showed absolutely no empathy towards your MIL who at the time had very few opportunities to see her son. 

-----------
Maybe that was an outlier. Or not. I don't know. You do remind me of a few folks I know in real life. They are all divorced and they all follow a certain behavioral template which is this: At 20,000 feet they acknowledge being difficult. But in any specific situation they will fight to the death rather than acknowledging fault. 

I have seen folks ask you simple questions regarding aggressive positions you have taken. And you choose not to answer them. 
I have no idea how you behave towards K2, however if you do that with him, I am certain he dislikes it. 








katiecrna said:


> Yes I was beyond good to my MIL. I would love to be treated that way by my daughter in law.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

katiecrna said:


> Husbands...
> 
> 1. Do you believe in transparency?
> Yep
> ...


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

MEM2020 said:


> Ok Katie,
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I'm afraid you have the wrong Impression of me. Yes I've come on here and complained about my in laws... but with all due respect, you don't know them. They are intrusive, and super traditional in a way that I find to be very disrespectful and sexist. And even though it's not their house, I end up living by their rules because my husband doesn't say anything and he doesn't want to start problems. So when they come up, I "act accordingly", and I am beyond respectful and nice. 
And yes my MIL is devastated by the separation. She is upset with her son and she told me that she knows I love him and she knows I would do anything to make the marriage work. She tells me to hang in there, and her son will have a come to Jesus moment and want to be a husband again. 

As far as me being difficult... sure maybe I have a loud bark and no bite. Maybe I see things in Black and white and I think things should be a certain way. I am not perfect and I actually have no problem at all admitting faults. No one is perfect and I know I make mistakes. However my husband can't admit faults, and he thinks he can do whatever he wants without consequence. Actually he lives that way quite openly now. He doesn't care about anyone but himself.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

MEM2020 said:


> however if you do that with him, I am certain he dislikes it.



His dislikes it huh? Well I dislike him hiding and deleting his text messages. I dislike him not coming home at night and not answering my calls in the middle of the night when I'm worried sick he got in an accident. I dislike him using credit cards to buy who knows what, and leases a car that I told him not to. I dislike how he told me to max out my student loans because we won't have money problems in the future... and now that he's done with his training, before he actually makes money he wants a divorce. I dislike how he refuses therapy and anything to help the marriage. I dislike how he moved across the country and won't tell me where he lives. I don't like how he texts me he loves me all the time but refuses to work on the marriage. I don't like how he uses me and tortures me and exploits my emotions.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

And @MEM2020 I don't like that he won't be a decent man and end this marriage or fix this marriage. My dad tells me he doesn't know how any man can treat a women like this, especially his wife.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Katie,

It's a huge blue flag - your mother in law wants the marriage to succeed. Pat yourself on the back for that, as I am aware that their visits were taxing, and that your FIL is sexist and childish. 

I won't even begin to defend your husbands conduct, as I find it appalling. 

I'm a little harder on you - than the average poster because you remind me of a younger version of M2 - without her sense of humor. 

I hope you take this in the constructive spirit in which I say it. I worry that the tension and conflict with K2 has at least temporarily suspended your sense of humor, your innate playfulness. You are acting the way M2 does when she feels - thwarted on one or more critical issues. Determined, deadly serious, and sadly - somewhat destructive. 

She has the exact same control issues you do. And - the same types of anxiety. 

One night - returning home from a workout - she was having a moderate panick attack. My shirt was mostly dry - I'd been gone two hours. Obviously I was banging some young hottie. Except I was doing no such thing. I had a lame workout followed by a grocery shopping trip - complete with receipt - highly air conditioned groc store = dry shirt. 

Thing is - I sat on the bed and talked to her for a while. Told her there wasn't anyone else, wasn't looking for anyone else. 

And yes at one point I sent her the friend finders link - the beauty of having nothing to hide.....

But max 20% of her leverage came from her willingness to scorch and salt the earth to get her way. A solid 80% came from being an excellent companion in and out of bed.

On occasion she - came across as you sometimes do - humorless and willing to do whatever is needed to get the outcome you want. In those situations I did what K2 does. I withdrew from the field and waited. If she threatened to leave I shrugged. 

So - sure - M2 is stronger than me. But that's not the thing drives our marriage. She's super lovable - and that means most of the time I WANT to do what she asks. 







katiecrna said:


> And @MEM2020 I don't like that he won't be a decent man and end this marriage or fix this marriage. My dad tells me he doesn't know how any man can treat a women like this, especially his wife.


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> Husbands...
> 
> 1. Do you believe in transparency?
> 2. Have you refused your wife to see your cellphone/text messages?
> ...


1 Yes
2 No
3 I would, on the basis that it's invasion of privacy. Yes, you can see my phone. No, you can't snoop to see what I'm doing on it all the time.
4 My best friends have always been of the opposite sex. Most of her friends come from work, and are of the opposite sex
5 I don't think it's possible for an innocent relationship to be inappropriate or vice-versa. If it's inappropriate, it's not innocent. And, no, I have not.

If your spouse doesn't trust you, then it will be the root cause of most of your marital difficulties. People who do not trust are considered pathological - that is, they have a condition that should be treated. Trust is like compassion - you either have it or you don't. A trusting person does not wait for someone to deserve trust...they trust until the person does something to violate it, then they don't have anything to do with that person again.

I don't think anybody "deserves" trust "because" of anything. I think you trust someone because they're human - until they prove they're not worthy, then it's over. If you marry someone you don't trust, you've created your own problems.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

katiecrna said:


> What is proven to be untrustworthy? A lot of people do untrustworthy behavior but they aren't caught.


Regardless of whether one is caught or not if someone cheats on their spouse, the betrayed spouse would be right not to trust them regardless of whether they know through positive confirmation or are merely suspicious of such behaviour. At the same time though if someones spouse has not cheated on their partner, yet there partner are convinced they have done that then there feelings would be wrong.

You either know something through evidence or you do not, If you do not know something yet are suspicious, you cannot know if your suspicion is warranted or not.

At the end of the day if you cannot trust your spouse not to cheat on you, regardless of whether your trust is warranted or not and whether you are wrong or right, your relationship is broken.



katiecrna said:


> I just disagree with you. It's not like oh I caught my husband having sex with another women therefore he is proven to be untrustworthy. Most of the time it's little things that alert you that something untrustworthy is going on. Little hints that could be nothing, or could be the tip of the iceberg.
> 
> A man clutching to his cell phone and never putting it down can be a hint. It's not proven untrustworthy but it could be something. If I ask hey why do you never put your phone down, and I ask to see it... the man can get defensive and cry you don't trust me, your controlling.
> My point is when someone is finally caught doing something untrustworthy... they usually drop small little hints way before. And the person can play the your controlling me card, you should trust me card and turning it around on the other person when they are indeed guilty.


It is a fools errand to think unrestricted access to your partners electronic footprint will protect you from infidelity.

If you want to ensure you have a toxic sexual relationship; presume your partner is guilty until proven innocent, make false accusations and indulge in paranoia, while spying on your partner constantly and or frequently demanding disclosure.

I don't do drama or maintain relationships with insecure and needy people. My wife also doesn't do drama or maintain relationships with insecure or needy people. Whenever my wife and I found we were in a sexual relationship with someone who needed constant reassurance and validation, we ended that relationship. Life is too short for us to waste time humouring such insipid nonsense.

Until you change your outlook, you will always have significant relationship problems.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Katie,

He's in the wrong - all I'm telling you is that - you've got a mindset I'm very familiar with. 

We humorously refer to it as 'comply or die' in la hacienda de los Mary. So Mary is the irresistible force - and that is the double entendre of it. It's 20% comply or die and 80% - being irresistible in the most delightful sense. 

This is the part you will either get - or you won't. But it's the fun part that makes you a good partner. Without that humorous self awareness, you might come across as an excessively difficult, opinionated and controlling partner. 





katiecrna said:


> And @MEM2020 I don't like that he won't be a decent man and end this marriage or fix this marriage. My dad tells me he doesn't know how any man can treat a women like this, especially his wife.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

1. partial. I also believe in privacy

2. No, but I've never looked at hers and would be offended if she asked to look at mine to check on on me. (but she has my password).

3. No tracking apps (for either)

4. Yes. I have several as does my eife.

5. I don't know what "innocent but inappropriate" means. If I had done something inappropriate, I wouldn't talk about it on the internet.....'

Trust means a to me in a relationship. I trust and expect to be trusted. I trust my with about 10 years gross pay in assets. 





katiecrna said:


> Husbands...
> 
> 1. Do you believe in transparency?
> 2. Have you refused your wife to see your cellphone/text messages?
> ...


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

BTW, if I were to behave inappropriately, I'd be sure my wife had full access to my cell phone, email etc and I would act in ways that didn't leave traces there.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

katiecrna said:


> His dislikes it huh? Well I dislike him hiding and deleting his text messages. I dislike him not coming home at night and not answering my calls in the middle of the night when I'm worried sick he got in an accident. I dislike him using credit cards to buy who knows what, and leases a car that I told him not to. I dislike how he told me to max out my student loans because we won't have money problems in the future... and now that he's done with his training, before he actually makes money he wants a divorce. I dislike how he refuses therapy and anything to help the marriage. I dislike how he moved across the country and won't tell me where he lives. I don't like how he texts me he loves me all the time but refuses to work on the marriage. I don't like how he uses me and tortures me and exploits my emotions.


This is what I was trying to illuminate in my previous post about my LTR. I didn't like how the relationship made me feel about _myself _. Nevermind that he was an ass. I felt so out of control, and angry, and sad all the time. I didn't want to feel that way anymore. I didn't like who I was becoming with him. One day I looked at myself in the mirror and had the epiphany. It didn't matter what he did or didn't do - the only thing that mattered was that I could live with myself. At that moment I loathed everything about myself and it was our relationship that was bringing out those parts of me. It wasn't adding good to my life anymore. Only bad. That was when I left, and just stopped the madness of trying to fix things or trying to solve the riddle of why he was the way that he was. I needed to heal myself and the only way I could do it was by getting away from him. I think you are doing the right thing by letting him go. 

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## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

katiecrna said:


> Husbands...
> 
> 1. Do you believe in transparency?
> 2. Have you refused your wife to see your cellphone/text messages?
> ...



1) Yes.

2) No.

3) No.

4) Only if they are friends of both husband/wife and 'marriage friendly'.

5) No.

A situation came up where at a work Xmas function, a co-worker was sitting "to close to me" for my wife's comfort. This came out a bit after the function. I took steps to never be alone with this person - our office has a very busy season where everyone works lots of overtime - and told my wife this after more time when the situation came up.

I do feel it is important to make your spouse feel safe, even if there is really nothing going on.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

kag123 said:


> This is what I was trying to illuminate in my previous post about my LTR. I didn't like how the relationship made me feel about _myself _. Nevermind that he was an ass. I felt so out of control, and angry, and sad all the time. I didn't want to feel that way anymore. I didn't like who I was becoming with him. One day I looked at myself in the mirror and had the epiphany. It didn't matter what he did or didn't do - the only thing that mattered was that I could live with myself. At that moment I loathed everything about myself and it was our relationship that was bringing out those parts of me. It wasn't adding good to my life anymore. Only bad. That was when I left, and just stopped the madness of trying to fix things or trying to solve the riddle of why he was the way that he was. I needed to heal myself and the only way I could do it was by getting away from him. I think you are doing the right thing by letting him go.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk




I get it and your right. But it's easier said than done. This is not a LTR this is my marriage to a man that I have been with for 15 years, and the last 2-3 have been bad. Ending a marriage is hard, but I know I have to do it.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

I feel bad for all the posters who maintain privacy and therefore separate lives from their SO.

I don't believe they understand the freedom and closeness that's possible with a transparent and supportive relationship.

Transparency is something offered, as I said in an earlier post, not something demanded. And it's offered knowing it likely will never be used or exploited by your SO

I rarely go in my W's purse even when she asks me to get something - then I just try to focus on finding the "thing". Because she is transparent, I am comfortable respecting her privacy unless there's a problem

To me this is what respect means in a relationship.

I encourage those of you with locked phones to offer your spouse to add their fingerprint so they can help if you leave your phone and get locked out. That's all transparency is - opening yourself up. See if they offer it back on their phones.


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## StuckInLove (Jun 6, 2017)

1. Do you believe in transparency? - Sure, but I also respect a right to privacy.
2. Have you refused your wife to see your cellphone/text messages? - She could very easily just pick up my phone and start looking, she even knows my password, however if she actually asked to see it to look at my text messages, there would definitely be a discussion as to WHY she all of a sudden needs to check on me. Whether or not I allow her depends on that conversation.
3. Refused find my friends or a tracking app? - If she felt the need to track me via GPS due to a trust issue, I'd be considering divorce, and also wondering what _she's_ hiding.
4. Do you think it's ok to have friends of the opposite sex? - Of course. If I felt that I couldn't trust my wife alone in the presence of another man, we wouldn't be married.
5. Have you ever had a innocent but inappropriate relationship with another women? - Odd question, because an inappropriate relationship would not be innocent.





> What if your wife doesn't trust you, but from your perspective you haven't done anything wrong? Do you feel it is your duty to make your wife feel safe and prove your a trusting man or do you think that because you are her husband you should be trusted and given the benefit of the doubt?


I could have stopped reading at "If your wife doesn't trust you" because she wouldn't be my wife. To answer the full question, yes it's my duty to prove to her I'm a trustworthy man from day 1 of the relationship. If she suddenly doesn't trust me when she used to, something has gone horribly wrong. If she suddenly started demanding to see my texts and track me via GPS, I would turn that right on its head and start drilling her to find out what SHE did or is doing that is making her feel like I would do her wrong. People don't blindly accuse people of things unless they themselves take part in that thing they're accusing the other of doing.


Bottom line, if your SO doesn't trust you, why the hell are you married?


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

StuckInLove said:


> 1. Do you believe in transparency? - Sure, but I also respect a right to privacy.
> 
> 2. Have you refused your wife to see your cellphone/text messages? - She could very easily just pick up my phone and start looking, she even knows my password, however if she actually asked to see it to look at my text messages, there would definitely be a discussion as to WHY she all of a sudden needs to check on me. Whether or not I allow her depends on that conversation.
> 
> ...




Why do you so vigorously defend your right to privacy on the one hand, then claim you have nothing to hide, then assert that if your w wanted to look into your "private" life you'd be offended and attack her? That's an amazing set of contradictions. And hardly the type of behavior that a man exhibits IMO


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

I believe in transparency. Especially after a 23 year marriage w/ no transparency. I remember TRYING to do my part to stay transparent, but he surely did not reciprocate. 

In my 2nd marriage, communication is everything. We are way open and honest...both coming from similar situations. Our phones are not locked, and we know each others' passwords to everything. We have separate bank accounts but share a savings account, and have the passwords to all of them and transfer funds whenever, etc...

All that being said, if he had a tracker on my phone....I'd leave it plugged in on my dresser. Screw that.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

SunnyT said:


> I believe in transparency. Especially after a 23 year marriage w/ no transparency. I remember TRYING to do my part to stay transparent, but he surely did not reciprocate.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Really? I use Snapchat so my college age kids will communicate... otherwise it's crickets. Fortunately they're home for the summer, but I digress.

Last weekend we drove a couple hours to pick up DD13x2 from a summer band camp and were snapping the big college boys. 

The new Snapchat now automatically tracks you unless you turn it off. My w and I have bitmoji - which is a personalized avatar with lots of updates that you can use while texting (google it - it's pretty cool).

Anyways.... we opened the map and my w and I both were like "awwww" and the bitmoji versions of us were looking fondly at each other on the map.

We loved it. As we drove, they moved and it was fun.

So trackers are fun and helpful. Sometimes I look at my w in a chat and see if her location would make picking me up inconvenient for her. If she's with her aunt at the assisted living place, I won't call and bother her.

My point is that this technology, when used to facilitate your relationship, can be harmless and actually helpful.

Btw I am a privacy zealot - I use Ghostery and ad block plus on my browser to prevent being tracked, delete cookies and never log into google or bing. But I don't hide from my lovely bride


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## Rick Blaine (Mar 27, 2017)

1. Yes, I believe in transparency. It is essential. 
2. I have never refused my ex-wife to see my cellphone/text messages.
3. I have not or would not refuse find my friends or a tracking app.
4. Opposite sex friendships that involve one-on-one time alone and intimate conversations are not safe for a marriage. Period. 
5. I had one three month online emotional affair, and it devastated my ex-wife. It was the most selfish and foolish thing I have ever done.

Complete transparency and accountability are non-negotiable. My future spouse will have complete access to any devices I have. And if she insists on secret passwords and "privacy" then I will automatically assume an affair is taking place. There may be folks who demand privacy that are not having an affair, but I will not be in a relationship where full transparency isn't honored.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

She can use my phone any time she wants. I have nothing to hide. She feels the same. Both of my daughters will occassionally use my phone too.

I wouldn't need a tracking app and would find that to be a little over the top. There are times when I don't want my wife knowing I stopped off at Guitar Center to test drive some guitars.  

Opposite sex friends are okay to an extent, but I'd be concerned if they wanted to go out or spend time alone. It would also depend on whether it's a long time friend I have met or if it's some guy from work I've never met.


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## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> Husbands...
> 
> 1. Do you believe in transparency?
> 2. Have you refused your wife to see your cellphone/text messages?
> ...


I'm female but I'm going to answer these any ways. 
1. Yes, absolutely 
2. My H has never asked to see them, but I wouldn't refuse. I do admit, I'd probably be offended by it. 
3. My sister has sent me links before inviting me to join a tracking app which I ignored. I find it very, very invasive. And CREEPY. I think it's just overboard. Google & Facebook stalk me enough as it is. So, I would most likely refuse an app like this. 
4. Yes, I think it's ok to have opposite sex friends but with STRONG boundaries. I mean very STRONG boundaries. 
5. No, I've never had an innocent nor an inappropriate relationship with a women. LOL. Or man, for that matter. Wait. . . does day dreaming about Matt Damon count? :grin2:


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> 3. My sister has sent me links before inviting me to join a tracking app which I ignored. I find it very, very invasive. And CREEPY. I think it's just overboard. Google & Facebook stalk me enough as it is. So, I would most likely refuse an app like this.


Sister, creepy. Spouse, I'm good with that. My wife was very reluctant at first but now we are both fans.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

Tracking apps sound super controlling and TBH a bit boring to me. I have no desire to know his every movement and would feel controlled if he expected to know my every move. To me it would show a complete lack of faith and trust and having strong trust in each other is vital to the health of our relationship.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

MrsHolland said:


> Tracking apps sound super controlling and TBH a bit boring to me. I have no desire to know his every movement and would feel controlled if he expected to know my every move. To me it would show a complete lack of faith and trust and having strong trust in each other is vital to the health of our relationship.




Why would you think someone who uses and shares a tracking app expects to know your every move?

Just as a spouse wouldn't expect to have sex with you every second.

Why assume such an extreme position?


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Why would you think someone who uses and shares a tracking app expects to know your every move?
> 
> Just as a spouse wouldn't expect to have sex with you every second.
> 
> ...


I can't see the connection between a tracking app and the qty of sex people have. Can you explain that.

As for your question, TBH if he ever made such an odd suggestion about using a tracking app it would feel like he wanted to know my every move and didn't trust me. If I want to know where he is/ what time he will be home then all I need to do is send a txt to ask. If he ever wants to know where I am/what time I will be home then all he needs to do is txt to ask. Anything more than that just seems bizarre to me. I trust him, he trusts me, we have no need to spy on each others location.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Sorry ok I'll explain. I found out the iPhone had the option to share your location in iMessage. I thought that was kind of cool, being a father of 5. I shared mine immediately on a chat with my w and one kid and asked them to do the same. It was petty cool to see how accurate it was. It became helpful when picking up a kid whose schedule varied a bit and seeing who was picking up whom. Only very occasionally. We rarely use it but when we can't reach each other we can try to see if the location helps.
> 
> So it is a technology I immediately offered and asked for because we all share in pick ups and drop offs.
> 
> ...


The way you have approached it is reasonable but I get the feeling that this is not what the OP was about, more abut people with the need to snoop or mistrust issues.

I guess for us trust and reasonableness does not need to have an app around it, we simply trust without the need for any technology so to add tech. to that would seem like the trust was gone. Hope that makes sense. I don't snoop on his phone although I know the password, he does not snoop on mine. To me trust should be implicit not forced. The addition of a tracking app would just be so bizarre to how we live. 

As for the kids well I think that is a great idea, not sure ours would go for it but I might have a go.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

There'd have to be a very good practical reason for using a tracking app, because I'm opposed to the invasion of privacy it can create. Besides, it wouldn't work for us. We have and share only one phone. I usually know where I am, so I don't need to find myself. I can meditate for that.


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## PieOhMy (Sep 26, 2014)

My husband and I got married too young. So we had to "grow up" together. Meaning most of the attitudes and sass, the drama and unneeded bull was there for the first years of our marriage. And boy, did we have a lot of problems we had to face and accept from outside influences and ourselves. But in those first years, we both lost each other's trust. But, rightfully so. We both made mistakes. We did not cheat on each other. But there were some suspicious activities on both parts. But neither of us ever crossed the line.

We eventually went to marriage counseling. We learned to cope, we learned how to communicate better with each other. To control our tempers and emotions.

We did not look through each other's phones or whatever until we started losing trust.

We did put apps on our phones, BOTH phones that we BOTH had access to. This helped with transparency. And this was a JOINT decision. He had access to remove the app whenever he wanted as did I. I would be aware, but he could. Eventually, we didn't need the apps. We got rid of them. Because our trust was growing back. 

We DO have full access to each other's accounts and emails, etc. We do not have any Facebook or social media like that. And I don't think either of us want it back (decided it brough too much drama). 

And every now and then, we look through each other's phones. Whether the other is aware of it or not. We both know it happens.

And that's it. I do believe in transparency. I only believe in monitoring if it is a two way street and if it's less of a compromise but more of 100% in decision because without both parties being 100% in, resentment can build. And that I feel is only good for once the trust is lost or there is very condemning behavior involved. 

This is my female perspective on it though. 

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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

My husband and I believe in transparency, but that doesn’t mean we pick each other’s phone up and start looking through it. We could, but we don’t. It’s important to treat each other with respect too, and not like you need to ''police'' each other’s phones, email accounts, etc. So there's a balance to it all, imo.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

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## DancingInAStorm (Jul 15, 2017)

katiecrna said:


> I wonder if age changes these answers. I think the younger people are against transparency and find it offensive and controlling.


Or immature people.

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