# I'm back again



## Mtts

I write this in hopes to clear up some of the confusion from previous threads.

My wife and I have had a lackluster time at trying Reconciliation(for those that have followed this) due to her being in another country for work. Not much to reconcile when they aren't here. We tried patching things up prior to but in reality it was naive and ignorant to assume things would hold.

I've tried to regain some clarity and composure over my thoughts. In a previous thread I had mentioned my intent to move forward with divorce. I never filed but had much intent on doing so. I was upset, a wall of anger swelled I was unprepared for. Pushing me from one feeling to the next. Something I found very uncomfortable as I do not like being led by emotion.

After giving myself some time to calm this and find some level ground again I'm back here. Writing to let those of you still trying to not be dismayed when you find yourself sinking while trying to fight for your marriage. Let yourself feel whatever emotion you need to. Regain a clear mind and continue forward.

My wife, whose login on here is Nan has decided to join this elusive and prestigious club of ours. 

With that I bow out of this for the moment, be sure that more will continue. I have no idea at what stage I'm at. I'm going to allow myself the courtesy and her the chance to at least talk before proceeding with anything when she returns state side in a month. 

Thanks for sticking with me through the ups and downs.

MTTS


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## doubletrouble

Sounds like part of your issue is long distance. Long distance relationships are hard enough when they're healthy; during R it could make it impossible. 

Is there some way you could get to where she works, or she could change where she works? If you are both serious about R, something's gotta give here, it seems.


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## Mtts

This was a temporary one time trip. A poorly choosen but one time deal. She will be home in about a month which means we can try with some actual ability to make things work. 

Absolutely though it was naive of either of us to think we could just put things on hold for 9 months. 

Heres to hoping that in 30 days I'll feel any desire to. It's hard to know how you're feeling when there is so much internal conflict. 

Thanks for the words and thoughts!


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## catch22gofigure

Keep us posted. Best wishes to you both!


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## Thumper

My suggestion is to not give up till she's at home for 4-6 weeks, and then you can give it a real try. Don't make emotional decesions when you still cant get to the issues. I hope both of you can hold on, and give it a real try when she gets home, so you wont have the regret later that you made the wrong choice at the wrong time cause of the mitigating circumstances. my 2 cents.


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## doubletrouble

I agree with Thumper. Since you've at least tacitly agreed to R, give it the absolute best shot you can. From my experience, it's worth it, although it takes a while for the pain of betrayal to subside. 

And it's healthy to feel your emotions, but as you said, not be totally led by them. It's the hardest thing in the world when you are in love with the person who emotionally hurt you the most they possibly could.


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## Mtts

Biggest update yet:

Wife is landing at our local airport 2:30PM PST tomorrow. Looks like I'll get plenty of time to figure this out soon. 

Wish me luck TAM.


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## Thumper

Grats M,

Now the wait is over. Time to put in the work. Hope you both can get this worked out.

My prayers are with you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mtts

I'm posting this with Nan next to me now. We're slowly going through things, had some more ahem "intimate" reunion than I thought I would let happen but good none the less. 

We're actually semi-fighting right now but I already feel it subsiding and making its way back to normal. Oddly enough it was over who got to clean up a mess?!

I guess you can say we're working through normal emotions, stress, frustration, anger, loneliness, etc. I'm glad though to be posting this with her beside me instead of me locked away at my folks or vice versa. 

Only time will tell how we're able to work it out.

Thanks for sticking with her and I and I look forward to a more cheerful R thread for the future. 

MTTS & Nan


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## Thumper

Grats to the both of you, if you can work thru everything I think your marriage could be 10x stronger than before cause you'll be more open to rebuilding than you ever were before.

Maybe instead of semi-fighting over who does what, work on it together, even trivial stuff. But even things like making dinner, cleaning the house, going for a walk, rebuild together goes a long ways.

Schedule a nice light evening/date, dinner and a movie? Remember that its not gonna happen over night, so don't get frustrated when its not happening as fast as either of you want. It took time to get yourselves lost, its gonna take time to find each other too.

Good luck!!! stay positive

Btw the way "Hi, Nan", welcome home.


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## Mtts

Thank you! We've been working on things together. I'm the sole working partner right now so she's a stay at home wife for the moment. We're getting along well all in all and I can feel things are sort of like "normal."

However we've also had some stress as we recently lost our little lap companion, our ragdoll mitted seal point cat, Sammy. He was like a child to us and it's been really hard losing him. I'm sure not everyone will understand or be able to sympathize but if you had seen the lil guy you'd definitely feel different. Ragdolls are very special in their personality and Sammy had a huge one. 

So we're dealing with that and trying to heal after his loss. In a weird way I feel like his loss is helping us heal closer together. An event I wish I could have erased, I'd trade places with the lil guy any day as I really loved him. However it is something that's unified us more closely. 

Thanks for the thoughts and we'll keep this as update as I can.

MTTS


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## Thumper

I'm sorry about your ragdoll, I know in our house our animals are like kids as well. We have 7, yes seven special needs animals, blind ones, old ones, and ones that need a lot of extra attention. All are saved animals. But I think your right, it's a bonding event although tragic, again I'm sorry for your loss.


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## Mtts

Hey everyone, 

I've survived life it seems and have decided to stop by. It's been a roller coaster since my wifes return. Moments of feeling incredible closeness countered by great distance. 

I'm having a hard time understanding but I guess I can sum up a lot of my own issues with a lack of intimacy. I seem to have lost some of that through this ordeal/process and find it difficult to care or feel the same way. Not intentional but I guess it often comes off as a cold or distant demeanor. 

I can tell this bothers my wife and is difficult for her at times. Understandably she wants that closeness but my fear is things will return to the way they were. I have a difficult time wanting to trust and have done my best to do so, but continue to have doubts.

It's been almost 2 years now since we had our rift, unbelievable that it's coming up on that long but come march we'll have crested that unfortunate anniversary. 

Guess this is just a hello to the void of the internet and saying, "i'm alive!"

MTTS


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## doubletrouble

Hello Mtts, that sounds like good news overall. 

It still takes me some effort to be intimate with my fWW. I still run mind movies, even though I've tried techniques to stop them. This morning I got stuck on the freeway behind "his" car (same make and model; I call it an "assault vehicle"), and that's a trigger. They come farther between, and don't hit as hard each time, but they do get a little better. It takes as much time as it takes. Trust given, then broken, is incredibly hard to rebuild. 

God bless


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## Mtts

Hey Everyone,

Positing from grave almost, it's been a fair amount of time since I was last on here. I've tried to be infrequent due to this site being a bit of a trigger. 

I wanted to update on whats going on in my life currently. My wife and I are still together. It's been mostly good, sometimes things regress and I have to work on holding things together. This seems to be my trust issues rearing their ugly head(s).

All in all I can't really complain about the decision I made to try and keep things going. Still not really sure how it's going to end up but for better or worse I'm still fighting for it!

So if anything this is just a note to those who don't believe it's possible. Almost 3 years after my D-Day and I'm still with my wife, precariously close at one time to the edge and walked away.

Hang in there TAM it does get better!


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## Mtts

Hello Everyone, 

Crazy to think that in 2016 I'm still on this forum occasionally. Which is actually why I am here. 

Things aren't going great at this point. Sorry to say, and as I had prior concluded, my marriage never seems to have been able to get it's right footing. This seems to fall heavily on me though as I never really got over the unexplained events several years ago and never really felt that trust re-form. 

We didn't really do much in the way of counseling as it felt very unauthentic. Like we were both trying to protect ourselves and own pride/image which kept it from being the open forum it should be. Unfortunately I highly doubt my wife's ability to stay objective and actually hear whats happening rather than just personal blame. 

I'm back to considering if moving forward towards divorce is the right thing. I've thought about this a lot over the last year. In many ways when we first filed back in 2011/12 that was probably the right decision. Although it wasn't being made for the right reasons, the decision would have put both myself and my wife in a better position to live fulfilling lives. As things are now, if we're not fighting we are very distant. She believes I'm incapable of being happy and states I'm always miserable. I don't really know if this is true or not since I don't see me that way. My co-workers generally say I look and seem happy. Friends state I seem happy and close friends always state I seem happier without her. 

It's hard to come to a determination that the woman I wanted to spend my life with is in fact probably the largest origin of confrontation. Which I believe in marriage as constant evolution and always working towards building something stronger. However the idea marriage should always be "work" I believe to be faulty. That to me points towards core incompatibilities as well as overall out of sync lives that is creating a combative and difficult environment that you are adapting to dealing with. Not a healthy relationship that is conducive to growing together. 

With all of this on my mind, I've found that my attraction to my wife has also dipped significantly. My wife is a gorgeous woman, which from the standpoint of physical attributes checks off all the right things. She is very smart and definitely isn't a bad person. I've come to feel though she may be bad for me. Bear with me on the analogy: she is new york cheesecake and although I love it, I shouldn't eat it all the time. We both have grown up as people, I just feel we have not grown up together. There isn't a good connection between us and it takes very little for the relationship to become strained. 

So now I'm back at square one, which is do I work on trying to restrengthen something that I feel is so damaged it may not be in either interest to fix or do I finally do what I feel should have been done several years ago and start over. Make myself well emotionally and then work towards finding something that fits compatibility with who I am. 

I have no idea if she has started up old behaviors and honestly I have no desire to know, now I'm just trying to decide what should I do for me. This isn't even a request for replies, do if you'd like but more of a mental dump of where I'm at in my saga. 

Thanks, 

MTTS


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## Herschel

I wasn't around then, but move on with your life bruh.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Decorum

See you next year.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mtts

I don't want to be here next year!

Not that you ladies and gents aren't awesome, but I'm sick to death of even thinking about marriage problems. 

Life's worst game


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## Decorum

It appears you never got the truth. Which means no remorse, no heavy lifting, no healing.

An experiment in undefined reconciliation.

And the results are in, but you dont know how to interpret them.

Just for fun schedule a polygraph for her.

Forget all the crap about reliability, just do it!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThePheonix

Mtts, I agree you should quit pissing your life away chasing a marriage that will never meet either of your needs. You're miserable and so is she. Forget the remorse and heavy lifting. Once their love interest in you drops, it never comes back no matter how hard they may struggle and strain to keep a life with you. And I believe many waywards try to patch it up, but there are too many pieces that are long gone.
People usually point to the lack or remorse and heavy lifting as the cause of a failed reconciliation. The missing piece however is when the degree of love is lacking, there's no remorse and no desire to do any heavy lifting. Its all they can do to stay in the same room with you.
It's way past time to close the books on this my man.


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## aine

MTTS, sorry you are in this situation, but you need to sit down and have a very frank conversation with your wife, why come here once a year? Better still get a MC and sort though all the issues, a good MC would be able to walk you through what is missing, etc and see if you should go separate ways.


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## Mtts

I've been having lots of open discussions recently. I know what is missing and why I feel the way I do. 

I just never got the trust part of it back, I tried desperately to fill that gap but wasn't very successful. Whether I didn't try hard enough or focus those efforts in the right way, I don't know. I do know that more often than not I'm thinking about different reasons why it should end, or easy ways for me to exit without it hurting her. Such as, I wish I could just walk in on her in the middle of something, it's an easy exit, removes the choice. 

Which for the above reason I feel like anytime one is not only hoping but actively wishing that something would happen to give validity to the choice, it's no longer about making it, but whether you are doing it for the right reasons. My reasons really come down to, after a lot of hard feelings and misses in communication early on, I don't see it as repairable. I associate more negative things with it than positive. 

Which none of this isn't to say I don't love her. I know I'm not actively in love with her as I can't have the types of feelings I do if that were the case. Which also for those who may be new to this, isn't that you can't fall back in love with someone. But there needs to be a mutual ability to forgive and rebuild/bond. If one, or both of you isn't able to, it's pointless. 

She may or may not have done anything conducive with infidelity, but what I do know happened seems to have irrevocably damaged the trust and I can't move past it. For this reason I believe I'm now ready to file, and finalize this chapter of my life. I turn 28 in a few days and as much as this terrifies me for mostly unnecessary and unlikely reasons, it's still scary. I've been with one person for a decade and the idea of starting over and building a new life is incredibly hard for me to imagine. I have difficulty imaging a life that doesn't include her in it but at the same time I know that it's due to our relationship, my issues included, that I'm not living a life that is fulfilling. I considered just sticking it out just because, but that's not fair to her either. I hate the idea of her having a new life with another man as well, but is that so different than her having an affair at some point out of resentment or necessity because I can't give her what she needs. 

It's the toughest spot I've ever been in but I believe I am now ready to finally complete this and say a fond farewell to all the helpful words I've read here. 

I know for some TLDR, which I apologize!:smile2:


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## aine

MTTS, have you shared all of this with her? You have nothing to lose. It looks like you are hanging on by your finger tips. I suspect if you lay bear exactly how you feel and see and hear her reaction, then you will have little difficulty in knowing what you need to do. It is tough of course, but you are still very young, have your whole life ahead of you. i was only 3 years into marriage at your age! 

Another issue you will learn no matter who you are married to, love is not a feeling it is a decision, a commitment. 

At the beginning of course its all emotions, feelings, rainbows and unicorns, but as the scales fall from your eyes and you realise you are living with a flawed human being, then you need more than feelings and emotions to work through the marriage. That is not to say there will not be great times, good times but there will also be bad times. You may not realise this yet. 

Only you can decide whether this woman is the one who you can be committed to regardless of your circumstances.


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## *Deidre*

When do two people say...it's time to say goodbye? I can't imagine struggling for years, only to keep coming back to the original place I started. I think you're wasting your life, trying to grow a marriage, when you should cut the weeds and move on. You can part friends, sounds like that might be possible. Not advocating divorce, but to keep struggling and struggling...and sounds like you're not even connected at this point, when is enough ...enough?


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## happy as a clam

Nothing in your posts has really changed in 4 years. You've been mulling over the same feelings and issues with zero improvement (sure there's some good times, but the very bedrock of a relationship--trust--isn't there). It's not likely to come back if it hasn't by now.

Stop torturing yourself. Time to pull the plug on this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mtts

Update, why not everyone loves a good update. 

I'm in marriage counseling which is going ok I guess. It's hard to gauge such a thing, but overall I can say I've been pretty open during it, so has she. I made it an upfront statement, that I wasn't really in a place anymore that would lean towards continuation for the marriage. I'm not ruling it out, I guess a wild card event could happen where I have a "realization" and we mend things. I'm not really thinking so though. 

My wife believes a lot of what is happening stems from a friendship with a co-worker and one who happens to be my boss, a woman I've worked with for 6 months. I admitted, she's a very nice person and a person whom I definitely enjoy interacting with but beyond that nothing has occurred. My wife is unconvinced, partially due to me being somewhat guarded about the friendship as I don't see it being inappropriate. With that, plus me being less engaged I know why she makes the draw/conclusion though and don't blame her, although it is difficult to deal with. 

With all that said, I've still mourned/felt sadness about the relationship. I do love my wife. Situation isn't fun but I hope to post something someday that says "I figured it out, life's recipe that makes me happy!"

Thanks for anyone who reads these and can relate or just lends their kind words.


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## Mtts

Hello TAM, 

So I am going to open up and be incredibly vulnerable. Part of this is due to my inherent need to be transparent and honest. The other part is that I feel for those who have followed my life this long, I owe it to you to finish it. 

I've officially filed as of about 30 days ago. I am choosing to end my marriage to a very beautiful, driven and hard working woman whom I've had the absolute honor of calling my wife. I'm hurt to let her go as I do have a very deep sense of attachment and love for her. The commitment that I made and the time I dedicated to trying to build a life with this woman is something I will never regret.

Here is the part I owe to everyone, including myself, to be honest about. The above mentioned co-worker/boss whom I worked with. We did end up crossing a line, prior to me being filed. My wife and I were in counseling and I was actively working to end the marriage. I had expressed for months I wanted to end things. At that time this woman and I had not done anything but I certainly had considered it. Unfortunately this is something I'll have to spend more time in counseling dealing with as I didn't honor, regardless of circumstance, a promise. I lied to my wife about it occurring, although she actually followed and saw me kiss this woman. I lied about it for months. 

After I finally had the courage, or maybe the apathy to admit it I felt an enormous weight both lift but also the new weight of my decision. I felt relieved I was honest, open and accountable. I also felt incredibly selfish, hurt and disappointed that I hurt my wife. It doesn't matter what happened in the past, my decision was made as it's own choice. The past may influence how I felt but it does not excuse what I did. After admitting it to my wife, I did so to my in laws in person. This has to be one of the single most humbling experiences I've ever gone through. It was surreal to speak those words to them. This was done the day before a 3 week business trip (not with this other woman). When I returned home, I did the same thing with my own parents, admitted what I did in person. I felt the need to own it directly and be accountable for it. It was important to my wife, but also to me.

The part that become far less honorable or maybe makes the most sense is after I admitted what had occurred, I simply committed to the choice. I just decided that if I had gone the direction I had, there was no real recovery possible. My wife expressed to me that she anticipated I'd do what she did in 2012, which is stop everything and ask for forgiveness. Part of why I didn't was how she positioned the situation to me as there being a very strong chance she'd walk out anyway, but at least it'd show I tried. Being told that, I looked at all the past issues and the fact things were so weak that I finally succumbed to flirtation outside of the marriage, what was the real point in "fixing it." She continued to reiterate how she was expecting me to beg forgiveness which I asked her to forgive me, she said she did. However she made a number of statements and continuously about how she felt about me. None of them instilling in me any belief that us continuing would be a good idea. I shouldn't have crossed this line, but I did and can't take it back. 

So I proceeded with filing and moving forward with separating from my wife. At this time I'm now just more reflecting on the what if. I am sad for the life I thought I'd have, not so much about it ending. I really do love her and still have days I think about how I miss her. Which I do, I miss things about her, I will absolutely miss sharing time together. When it was good, it was really good. She can be an incredibly passionate person and showered me in love. However being I healed on my own while she was in China for 10 months and we didn't do a ton to really professionally fix what happened, I feel this just set this up for failing. It's not an excuse but I felt a deep hurt that I had to deal with alone. I didn't take it out on her the same way. Day after day attacking her character. I have brought it up periodically throughout the marriage, which is my fault. If I was going to move on and try and fix it I needed to let it go.

I guess if anything this is just for my own cathartic need. To make myself vulnerable to individuals who will likely be incredibly divided on my decisions. Which I even am day to day, divided on my own actions. I hope that this is read with it's intent, accountability. I'm not sure if I'll regret this 1 year from now or 5 years or 10. What I do know is I truly love the woman I'm letting go and I wish and want nothing but happiness for her. I want her to build a life that she feels fulfilled in. I want her to experience nothing but support, love and compassion. I want her to feel that she is the center of that special "someones" world. That she is the most spectacular woman to exist. I want her to know that I love her deeply and maybe in different circumstances with different decisions we'd have side stepped all of the hurt we shared. I know that I will remember you at the best you gave, not at our worst together. 

With humility,

MTTS


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## Mtts

Just thought I'd circle back to this. It's been a long time and it's an interesting thing to reflect and look back on things. Time gives you a ton of perspective as you evaluate your own decision making and thought process. 

I'm in a stronger financial position today than I was a year ago. I'm living very comfortably and just kind of moved forward with the thought that I can and will make a life that is conducive to overall happiness. I've talked a few times with my ex and things are amicable if not weird. It'd be odd if I said it doesn't sometimes still make me feel weird to be divorced, but a weight definitely was lifted. It's far easier to go day to day at this point and the coffin of my marriage is now far more obvious to me. It was so screwed up that I couldn't see it, being so close to it. Even weirder is the idea that I think I'd be infinitely better at marriage now given I have been divorced. Mostly from the standpoint of between myself and my ex I learned all the pitfalls and what to avoid. Or at least the egregious ones that haunt you later. 

To anyone who's struggling with the decision or wondering if marriage is worth it. The answer is, yes it's worth and I send my love and compassion to anyone who's living through the difficulty of marital struggles. You have value and you are worth far more than the belittling feelings that creep up on you during lonely nights. You are important, and someday this will be evident with your relationship and the love you share with your significant other. 

MTTS


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