# Trust issues warranted? Gf keeping in touch with ex's



## wuddatsa (Mar 22, 2012)

I am male, and we are both 25 (I am 6 months older). We've been in a relationship a little over a year now, and I've been having trust issues with two of my gf's ex-es. One isn't really an ex, but a previous flirt/almost a relationship.

Background on me: The first serious girl I dated ended up cheating on me studying abroad, and I've had a few non-committed relationships since then. This is my 2nd serious relationship. I know, and follow, the advice that "trust in someone unless given a reason not to trust" and so here goes what's going on. I also don't believe in talking to ex-es, in any way shape or form, after you're in a marriage. That's a past life, you have a new one now. You can feel good for them, and hope for the best.

Background on her: Her first ex, her most important, was together with her for 5 years (throughout hs into early college). They've been broken up for about 3-4 years now. She doesn't have a lot of girl-friends, and her ex (and another guy...getting to that later) were the main source of her complaints / rants / telling of problems to. You know, stuff you would tell your best friend / best girl (hyphen) friend.

When we first started dating, this girl let me know that she made a mistake in her past, where when she let some other guy kiss her (she was in a non-serious relationship) after she got tipsy and went over to his house. The scenario is that she wanted to accompany her friend and make sure she was okay, so she went along too. But she was tipsy, and the other guy kissed her - she pushed him away. She knows it was a mistake, and I think she sincerely believes that. However,I felt that this was a red flag, and I considered this cheating. I reasoned "it's okay, everyone makes mistakes, that's not in this relationship at least".

This first ex didn't make the greatest impression on me, nothing of his fault (yet). Early into my and my gf's dating life, I confessed to her "I love you" and a few weeks later, she said "I love you <insert first ex name>". I was flabbergasted. Absolutely speechless. I know it was habitual, sub-conscious, as I am the only other person she has said it to, but I can't help but to think that if she didn't keep in touch with her ex (however slight) it wouldn't have happened.

Okay great. Strike I and II.

Fast fwd 2-3 months. It's 11pm, she get's a call from her first ex. That's a boundary right there crossed. At the time she tried to reason with me that it was okay, and that it wasn't a boundary crossing, and that a call like that isn't important (she later agreed with me that there was a boundary crossed). I argued that she needs to tell him it's not okay, and she reluctantly (I think she places me as the bad guy here) does it. Fast fwd 1-2 weeks. And out of nowhere, she receives a MMS text from the first ex, of a handmade gift that she made for him in high school. Uh oh. Wtf? At this point, I know she doesn't have feelings for him, but I doubt his intentions and I doubt him. I also think, at this point, it was a really big line that has been crossed. Originally, she doesn't believe me, she found it "funny" that he would do that. She was even arguing for him, that it was because he was lonely, and it doesn't happen too often. It took a while, but eventually she agreed that it was a line that was crossed. Again. This is something I can't help but to think if she didn't keep in touch....wouldn't have happened.

Now, the other guy. She's had a interesting relationship with this one, not exactly dating, but almost to the point of - where they shared a lot of intimate moments in terms of talking and sharing time together - she had feelings for him, and didnt act on it due to other reasons. I found out about this guy after piecing together the clues. We were on a date once, and she got a call from him - she glowed with excitement - odd i thought must be a really good friend. 6 months later, we're at a lounge, and this guy walks in and she starts flirting with him while I sit right next to her (she denies she did at the time....but again...after much convincing from my perspective, she agreed she was pretty flirty). Eventually she caves and tells me that she did indeed have feelings for him (she hid it for a little bit first). She wanted to keep in touch with this guy too, because of the past they've shared, and it makes me uncomfortable.

So, here's the problem. I asked that she stopped keeping in touch with these guys, because she's shown me that for those two specific people - there were reasons for me not to trust her. She's telling me that this is against her morals, being told by someone else who she can and can't talk to.

I have to agree with her that I'm imposing on her freedom of choice here, but I cant help but to think that If i didn't ask (repeatedly, getting more upset each time) that it wasn't okay to contact these two - it was just going to keep going on and on until I finally broke.

The other day, she hears (down the chain from group of friends) that her first ex-es uncle had passed away. She asked me if she could contact him and send condolences. I said no, i dont think she should share that part of his life anymore. I explained why, and got upset over the fact she was getting in touch with him again, even under extreme circumstances. I think she's very uncomfortable "severing" those relations with these two guys, since they were an important part of her past. However, those two figures have (in my mind) crossed some boundaries that I don't want to see continuing in a relationship, especially one that may be on the road for marriage. I'm not sure what to do, or what I can do to stop being controlling (as she put it) when I feel threatened by my own insecurities.

TL;DR: GF keeps in touch with her first ex, despite displaying (what i thought) were reasons that broke my full trust. She kept in touch with another guy, that she had feelings for (did not date, formally), I asked her to stop talking to them both. Got in huge **** for being controlling.


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## wuddatsa (Mar 22, 2012)

I wanted to add some clarifications from another board..another user who has made great points and highlighted my own failures... And I really apologize for the long post - but it's a pretty detailed situation to me.

[–]itshissong1
You are being hugely controlling. Either you don't trust until you have reason not to trust or you look for and take every little thing as a reason not to trust. I'm like you, I've never kept in touch with an ex. However, that doesn't mean that every connection like that is a problem. Yes, she made a very hurtful slip of the tongue by saying her ex-bf's name when she meant to tell you she loved you. I can see how terrible that must have been for you. However, that was clearly not on purpose and it appears that she's really given you no reason to think you can't trust her. Case in point, of the communications/events you've described, the only one that is possibly out of line for her is being flirty with the guy she used to have a thing for and I somewhat doubt that since you had to "convinc[e]" her (cough … browbeat until she caved … cough) that she was being flirty with him.

Look, if this is a non-negotiable for you, it's a non-negotiable for you. That's certainly your prerogative. But you clearly have huge trust issues, imo, if you have an absolute rule that your future wife can never reach out to an ex, even just to send condolences on the loss of a loved one.

If you want to get over your own insecurities, you have to at least try to do so. In other words, if you don't extend the trust in the first place, thus allowing her to show you that she's worthy of that trust, you're always going to harbor these insecurities since it will seem like the only reason you can trust her is that she agreed to conform her behavior to your insecurities.

ME----------------------
I am inclined to agree that I have some huge trust issues. Did you not read the part about the late night phone call and mms text from the first-ex? I don't really see how it's healthy to keep a relationship with an ex like that, and i don't see how it's fair to all parties.

I didnt "convince" her that she was being flirty. I "convinced" her to tell me about her feelings for him. I mentioned the flirtiness, and she arrived to the fact she was being overly (key: overly) flirty by herself.


[–]itshissong1 1 point 1 hour ago
OK, I was obviously reading too much between the lines on the "convincing"/flirty part. I don't really see how one call from the ex is a huge issue, unless you guys were already asleep or something and she failed to tell the ex that this was too late in the evening to call. It's not like she called him and it's not like she is pushing you aside on the regular to talk to him. He called, she answered. It doesn't seem like they had some sort of inappropriate conversation, unless you left that out. I somewhat agree that the MMS of a memento of their relationship is a little bit sketchy, but honestly, it could just as easily not be sketchy since I definitely find myself contacting old friends along the lines of "hey, I saw this thing that totally reminded me of you, just wanted you to know I'm thinking of you." As far as what's "healthy" or not, I don't think there is an objective answer on this one. I certainly don't think it's unfair of her to keep a relatively minimal amount of contact with him.

For me, the bottom line is that none of the things you've said give me the impression that she is at all untrustworthy:

*A guy kissed her when she was drunk and she pushed him away. I don't see that as cheating, she admitted it was a mistake, and it didn't happen when you guys were dating.
*She answered a call from an ex but nothing untoward happened on that call.
*She received a text from the ex that she obviously didn't keep secret from you; I guess it's annoying of her ex to send it but she didn't solicit it and she told you about it.
*She flirted with a guy she used to be into in front of you. Yes, she made a mistake, but she didn't have a secret emotional affair or flirtation with him, whatever mistake she made, she made in front of you, only in hindsight, and seemingly agreed not to do again.

I'm just not seeing where the problem is here. She seems to want to maintain a minimal amount of contact with two people that she has a long history with, no more, no less. If they start crossing lines, that's an issue you can deal with as it arises.


ME----------------------
Yes we were already asleep. It was the first occurence when I was present. (read below). I dont know the contents of the call. What bothered me about the MMS memento was that she defended him tooth and nail, arguing that it was more than okay and he was only "lonely" and that's why he sent it. I thought that was really...odd...she would entertain his loneliness when she obviously broke up with him so many years ago. It's like she feels obligated(?) to keep in touch with him because at some point she promised she would always be there for him. She did mention this, and I've just recalled.

But she said and I quote

"It's just hard for me to give up talking to him, because I promised him i would always be there for him"
and i said "but that was made within the bounds of the relationship, and you broke up with him, that contract should have been nullified once you made that decision".

More elaborations on the first ex-

*that's who she went to for relationship advice, when she was first dating me. That's who she went to to complain about me at the beginning of the relationship. I see that as, i guess, a threat almost - and that's my problem. I feel that this is something should be offloaded to a girl-friend....which she doesn't have so she uses the first ex.

*the late night phone call was jsut one instance, i dont know the total number but she says "occasionally they talk at night" like with a frequency of once every 3 months. They keep in regular contact on gchat (once every month a long chat, once every 2 week a hello etc).

Well, at least until about 8 months into the relationship where i asked her to stop keeping in touch. I guess I am more use to cutting off issues to a problem, before I see it arising - as I already saw a trend (and I know that's a fallacy, it may or may not happen). That is my failure, and I am aware of it.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Wow. That's a lot to absorb... but that said, I do think your trust issues are valid. 

The question is, what do you plan to do about it? She's not going to respect your wishes with either of these guys.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

There is a simple rule for both of you to follow, an ex is an ex , there is no reason for either of you to have any contact with any ex. If she persists swallow hard, tighten your gut and dump her. Her and your priority is your relationship , if she is behaving this way now it will be worse should you become engaged or married.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wuddatsa (Mar 22, 2012)

Eli-Zor - that is a motto I've lived with, and follow to the dot. I think, given normal circumstances, contact with ex's prior to marriage is okay. But given these events that have unfolded - I've not been happy.

To put it into perspective, I'm not worried about other men. I'm not looking at this as a "oh she's going to be fully unfaithful" it's more a matter of principle. In another post,

"It's not a matter of being faithful at that point, it's almost a matter of "can you value my feelings over his/your own" in this situation.
I don't see other men as threats, she dances salsa/bachata and frequents happy hours - those are both perfectly fine (though I do get a little jealous some other guys are wrapping there hands around her waist sometimes! I trust in her that if anything untoward were to happen, she'd politely let the other dancer know). It's these two (that are the source of my uneasiness)."


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## Peacefinder (Mar 22, 2012)

Here is the thing. Old flames have a way of drawing up old feelings. No one likes being in the company of having to bear that suspicion so it sounds like a matter of your GF's lack of maturity and whether you are really compatability with your GF at this moment in time. If you really love someone, you wouldn't stop them from finding what makes them happy even if it means losing them, but she should also know if the experience is intolerable for you. If she's still not ready to change on her own, its time for you to move on because forcing someone to follow rules only leads to resentment and compliance for all the wrong reasons. They should respect your feelings too if they are in a serious relationship with you. I used to have more female friends than male friends, but I REALLY didnt understand how much it bothered the people I was in a relationship with. It took a serious shock treatment to finally understand her point of view. Your GF doesnt sound like she's figured that out yet. Just my 2 cents.


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## hisfac (Feb 10, 2012)

We all have our dealbreakers in relationships.

That much contact between a girlfriend of mine and not one but TWO ex's would be a dealbreaker for me.

I wouldn't be controlling, I wouldn't try to force anything, I would simply tell her that it's not my thing to be committed and exclusive with a girl and emotionally invested when she's still involved with one or more ex's even to such a "slight degree". She can continue with them, or she can continue with me, but definitely not both, and I'd give her a few days to work out what she wants to do.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

I think she values these friendships more than the relationship she has with you. Otherwise, it wouldn't be so difficult to respect your wishes.


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## wuddatsa (Mar 22, 2012)

hisfac said:


> We all have our dealbreakers in relationships.
> 
> That much contact between a girlfriend of mine and not one but TWO ex's would be a dealbreaker for me.
> 
> I wouldn't be controlling, I wouldn't try to force anything, I would simply tell her that it's not my thing to be committed and exclusive with a girl and emotionally invested when she's still involved with one or more ex's even to such a "slight degree". She can continue with them, or she can continue with me, but definitely not both, and I'd give her a few days to work out what she wants to do.


There's only one ex she keeps in (what I find, on my spectrum) as "that much contact". The first one. The second one is less of an ex..as more of an old flame / flirt. That one had another interesting story. We were in Victoria on Vacation, she got a text from that one, and she didn't tell me about it right away - I saw and wondered why. It was a harmless question, but in her mind, it was torture not to answer. She reasons that "i feel really uncomfortable not answering a question when someone asks me" and i'm just...stumped at what to think...because that's not exactly "someone" that's the other guy i told you makes me uncomfortable when you talk to him...because you openly flirted with him and then also happened to forget to tell me you had feelings for him in a previous life. oops?



emb3425 said:


> That's a lot of info, but I get that this is very important to you. I think the problem for me would be the simple fact that she doesn't seem as into you as she is her exes. When a woman is really into a guy, other guys barely exist for her. It would be one thing if she was casually interested in her exes and looked them up now and then. My wife does this and its no big thing. But in your case she seems to be trying to maintain a much greater connection with these guys than is warranted given that she should be devoting her time and efforts to you.


She's not into them, definitely not. But she is very curious about everything, and part of that curiosity leads her to want to be infrequently updated about people she cares about, namely those two ex's. She likes to catch up on their lives. For the first, it's something like "so i know he's doing okay" and then i say "that's not your responsibility?". For the second flame, it's...I don't know.



Peacefinder said:


> Here is the thing. Old flames have a way of drawing up old feelings. No one likes being in the company of having to bear that suspicion so it sounds like a matter of your GF's lack of maturity and whether you are really compatability with your GF at this moment in time. If you really love someone, you wouldn't stop them from finding what makes them happy even if it means losing them, but she should also know if the experience is intolerable for you. If she's still not ready to change on her own, its time for you to move on because forcing someone to follow rules only leads to resentment and compliance for all the wrong reasons. They should respect your feelings too if they are in a serious relationship with you. I used to have more female friends than male friends, but I REALLY didnt understand how much it bothered the people I was in a relationship with. It took a serious shock treatment to finally understand her point of view. Your GF doesnt sound like she's figured that out yet. Just my 2 cents.


And that's the problem. It's intolerable for me, given the circumstances and situations i have been put through (my first ex cheating, these two demonstrating what i think is suspicious). I think she's ready to change - but only because I've repeatedly expressed how much of a dealbreaker this is. She is unwillingly giving in - she stopped contact - but I can tell she resents me for it.



A Bit Much said:


> I think she values these friendships more than the relationship she has with you. Otherwise, it wouldn't be so difficult to respect your wishes.


No that's not quite right. She values me more, but her curiosity and (maybe oath-bound promise / honor to her first ex?) get the best of her and override the feelings that I have. She's always put me in a bad light, she blames me for this and I dont think she'll ever see it from my perspective. To her, I'm just that ******* who made her stop talking to two important people from her past becuase "it makes him uncomfortable" (she's said that...to many people, even the ex's - as in she blatantly tells them it's my fault - which it is..but for some reason that just doesn't sit...well...).


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Your not married yet,so what is the bottom line deal-breaker for you? Tell her that and if its not acceptable to her then move on.Look on the bright side,even if you part,you'll still be an ex.JK


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> She values me more, but her curiosity and (maybe oath-bound promise / honor to her first ex?) get the best of her and override the feelings that I have. She's always put me in a bad light, she blames me for this and I dont think she'll ever see it from my perspective. To her, I'm just that ******* who made her stop talking to two important people from her past becuase "it makes him uncomfortable" (she's said that...to many people, even the ex's - as in she blatantly tells them it's my fault - which it is..but for some reason that just doesn't sit...well...).


I disagree with your view of whom she values more. These people are her past, you are her present and possible future. That's all she should be focused on. These relationships are causing problems in her present and possible future relationship with you and she won't let them go. You aren't asking for much IMO. These two guys have a hold on her, and to the point their communications with one another have stepped over the line. 

If it were me, I'd be breaking up. It's them or me.


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## wuddatsa (Mar 22, 2012)

A Bit Much said:


> I disagree with your view of whom she values more. These people are her past, you are her present and possible future. That's all she should be focused on. These relationships are causing problems in her present and possible future relationship with you and she won't let them go. You aren't asking for much IMO. These two guys have a hold on her, and to the point their communications with one another have stepped over the line.
> 
> If it were me, I'd be breaking up. It's them or me.


And she's made her choice, reluctantly, unwillingly, and definitely with resentment. I don't know how to move forward in a relationship like this - I think I may end up getting what I've wanted - but at significant cost. My insecurities really effed this up. That's where my mind is right now.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

wuddatsa said:


> And she's made her choice, reluctantly, unwillingly, and definitely with resentment. I don't know how to move forward in a relationship like this - I think I may end up getting what I've wanted - but at significant cost. My insecurities really effed this up. That's where my mind is right now.


I don't think it can fairly be said that you effed this up. 

She helped you to feel the way you do by her actions with these two people, even called you by one of their names while professing her love to you. NOT COOL.

Her attitude AFTER the fact, is telling too. Resentment? Please. I really don't think her resenting you is warranted in the least.


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## wuddatsa (Mar 22, 2012)

A Bit Much said:


> I don't think it can fairly be said that you effed this up.
> 
> She helped you to feel the way you do by her actions with these two people, even called you by one of their names while professing her love to you. NOT COOL.
> 
> Her attitude AFTER the fact, is telling too. Resentment? Please. I really don't think her resenting you is warranted in the least.


From our last conversation, she definitely resents that I've been so controlling on her in regards to this matter. She basically said "I dont know if i can deal with this, and what it says about your way of doing things, and if this will affect other parts of the relationship".

She's right though. I am very pushy when it borders on something very important to me. I try to control, because I don't like risks or variables outside of my immediate calculations.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

wuddatsa said:


> From our last conversation, she definitely resents that I've been so controlling on her in regards to this matter. She basically said* "I dont know if i can deal with this, and what it says about your way of doing things, and if this will affect other parts of the relationship".*
> 
> She's right though. I am very pushy when it borders on something very important to me. I try to control, because I don't like risks or variables outside of my immediate calculations.


Well I don't know about how you deal with other situations, but considering you don't mind her having male friends, I would say she's off base. 

These two individuals are whom you take issue with, and for good reason. She can't deal with it? Well if she wants to keep them around (and I honestly think she will anyway to spite you) she can, but she loses YOU in the process. She doesn't know what this is costing HER IMO.


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## savannah (Apr 4, 2008)

I do understand your fight- BUT it is also becasue you AREN'T married that she might think of this as "Wht's the big deal"... relationships prior to marriage can be tricky. Where do you draw the line, and do both people share the same idea of bounderies?

Keep telling her how this makes you feel. If she truly values your relationship, she will stop and realize what she is doing. 

IF she doesn't you have some real thinking to do, as you would not want to come back to this forum after being married with the same complaint.

Good Luck!


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## wuddatsa (Mar 22, 2012)

savannah said:


> I do understand your fight- BUT it is also *becasue you AREN'T married that she might think of this as "Wht's the big deal"... relationships prior to marriage can be tricky. Where do you draw the line, and do both people share the same idea of bounderies?*
> 
> Keep telling her how this makes you feel. If she truly values your relationship, she will stop and realize what she is doing.
> 
> ...


I think our ideas of boundaries are fundamentally different. After marriage, I don't really see the need to talk to an ex (even though it's so easy with FB and Gmail now) no matter what - even events like if that ex got married, or if someone close to them passed away. I dont see that as part of my marriage, having my wife explicitly send (communication) condolences to an ex. 

She sees this as okay, most likely because she's picturing what might happens to her first ex, and she wants to express something to him in the distant future.

Boundaries...Boundaries...it's hard getting them aligned. Really hard apparently.


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## hisfac (Feb 10, 2012)

wuddatsa said:


> I think our ideas of boundaries are fundamentally different. After marriage, I don't really see the need to talk to an ex (even though it's so easy with FB and Gmail now) no matter what - even events like if that ex got married, or if someone close to them passed away. I dont see that as part of my marriage, having my wife explicitly send (communication) condolences to an ex.
> 
> She sees this as okay, most likely because she's picturing what might happens to her first ex, and she wants to express something to him in the distant future.
> 
> Boundaries...Boundaries...it's hard getting them aligned. Really hard apparently.


It all comes down to dealbreakers.

It's not a matter of who is right or wrong. You're not ok with it, she is, and you're at a standoff.

It's really quite simple. Either you learn to live with it or you tell her you're done if she doesn't cease and desist and you let the chips fall where they may. From what you have written, you can't live with it and llike I said I wouldn't either. The only other option is to keep complaining about it until she dumps you and/or fools around with one of them.


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## Mom_In-Love (Mar 18, 2012)

She keeps a promise to an ex? WTF :scratchhead:

That says so much more than just talking to them.

You are in the right to feel concerned, so don't beat yourself up over your feelings.

Also, an ex is an ex. BAM! Gone. There should not be any contact.


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## wuddatsa (Mar 22, 2012)

Mom_In-Love said:


> She keeps a promise to an ex? WTF :scratchhead:
> 
> That says so much more than just talking to them.
> 
> ...


I think...you hit on a really important piece that I didnt see.

What does it mean to a girl when they promise an ex something, and still try to uphold it when they're in a relationship with someone else?

She promised that "she would always be there if he needed her" somewhere in their relationship either during, or after they became friends again.

The other day, when she was crying, she let slip that she doesn't feel comfortable not ever talkign to her first ex again (even little contacts, like when she felt like she needed to extend her condolences) because she made that promise.

I think that's what's eating me up inside. Is it weird that in my thinking, I can't have her heart 100% If she's holding onto a promise like that?

I know she's with me physically, almost every day of the week after coming home from work (we're not living together, we have our own places but we almost never sleep alone), but...


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> The other day, when she was crying, she let slip that she doesn't feel comfortable not ever talkign to her first ex again (even little contacts, like when she felt like she needed to extend her condolences) because she made that promise.


Wow. She's still in love with her ex. Sorry to break it to you but really look at what she's doing and saying.

This is nuts.

I'm really glad you are seeing all of this before you do something silly like propose marriage to this girl, because believe me, this isn't something that will just go away after vows. You're going into this with your eyes wide open my friend.


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## wuddatsa (Mar 22, 2012)

A Bit Much said:


> Wow. She's still in love with her ex. Sorry to break it to you but really look at what she's doing and saying.
> 
> This is nuts.
> 
> I'm really glad you are seeing all of this before you do something silly like propose marriage to this girl, because believe me, this isn't something that will just go away after vows. You're going into this with your eyes wide open my friend.


I know what it looks like, and honestly, being inside this relationship I know my eyes are obscured - but I honestly don't think there are any lingering feelings - not of romantic love, but maybe brotherly love. Love is too strong a word, maybe just "care about". She's said that their falling out was that they became more like friends than anything else.

Maybe you are right, maybe I'm just blind. Maybe she doesn't understand the definition of love, or we disagree on that as well.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

wuddatsa said:


> I know what it looks like, and honestly, being inside this relationship I know my eyes are obscured - but* I honestly don't think there are any lingering feelings - not of romantic love, but maybe brotherly love. Love is too strong a word, maybe just "care about".* She's said that their falling out was that they became more like friends than anything else.
> 
> Maybe you are right, maybe I'm just blind. Maybe she doesn't understand the definition of love, or we disagree on that as well.


You have instincts for a reason. Deep down you KNOW this isn't true or you'd be okay with it. There is always going to be a part of her you will never reach and I don't blame you for being hurt or bothered by that. You love her, your eyes are rosy and all this is difficult to digest.

I just don't think she's over him, I think she told you that to make you okay with their relationship.


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