# Just a random mental meander



## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

I was / am very shy and was virgin almost until age 30. Then some women conspired to change that, but my experience is limited and that was my intention. 

So my wife to be and I developed a friendship and with little help on my part became serious. The first time we spent the night together I see as making love rather than having sex.

I've known that she was more outgoing than I, but through recent conversations realize that she was good with casual sex. This is not an issue for me as her experiences made her the woman I desire to this day (45 years).

For me, our first night together was about making love. Now knowing that she was good with casual sex and learning that due to my inhibitions I passed up opportunities to have casual sex with her, it caused me to wonder whether she was having casual sex with me when I was making love to her. And how long into the relationship.

Just a quirky thought.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

women conspired to give you sex?
woo hoo!!! you are one lucky guy!

is there a question here?


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Probably thought that it was cute and endearing that you were "making love" - don't worry I had the same situation and sometimes think the same thing.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Julie's Husband said:


> I was / am very shy and was virgin almost until age 30. Then some women conspired to change that, but my experience is limited and that was my intention.
> 
> So my wife to be and I developed a friendship and with little help on my part became serious. The first time we spent the night together I see as making love rather than having sex.
> 
> ...


Or were you having casual sex with her and didn't realize it because of your inexperience? Whatever these answers are, after 45 years you have done it right.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

happyhusband0005 said:


> Or were you having casual sex with her and didn't realize it because of your inexperience? Whatever these answers are, after 45 years you have done it right.


Yep, done right. I was making love to her. I know the difference. Love is an emotional investment and I had a huge emotional investment in the relationship.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

manfromlamancha said:


> Probably thought that it was cute and endearing that you were "making love" - don't worry I had the same situation and sometimes think the same thing.


I'd like to hear more about that. I like to know I'm not the only slow learner in the crowd.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

Talker67 said:


> women conspired to give you sex?
> woo hoo!!! you are one lucky guy!
> 
> is there a question here?


 Yes, they conspired. In one case it was my sister-in-law putting me in a one bed motel room with her buddy without warning me ahead of time or getting my consent, in another it was a co-worker's girlfriend setting me up with a blind hook up to find out whether I have multiple orgasms. In another my sister's name was mentioned at one point, so I don't know whether she played a part or knew the young lady's intent to introduce her brother to being sexually active.

Being painfully shy I wasn't ready for that much attention and pretty much went into shock for a couple of months. Now I can look back and feel flattered knowing I was the subject of girl talk, but at the time I was not emotionally equipped to deal with it gracefully.


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

If the two of you are currently happy, why do this to yourself?


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Julie's Husband said:


> I was / am very shy and was virgin almost until age 30. Then some women conspired to change that, but my experience is limited and that was my intention.
> 
> So my wife to be and I developed a friendship and with little help on my part became serious. The first time we spent the night together I see as making love rather than having sex.
> 
> ...


The simple answer is that each person, when they have any social encounter with another person will place a different weight to that social encounter. A casual word from me could potentially stop or cause a suicide, for example. 

So, yes. It may not have been significant to her but it was with you. There would have been times when it was significant to her, but not with you.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

theloveofmylife said:


> If the two of you are currently happy, why do this to yourself?


Doing nothing to myself. Just idle curiosity. I think the thought is sort of funny. 

I wouldn't ask her, though, as she is being real good about putting up with the emotional crap I'm going through. Between that and dealing with the results of her stroke her curiosity and sometimes humor is sometimes in short supply right now.

I was intense about the relationship and fully assumed she was as well. Maybe not, though, as that was the beginning of living together for a little over a year and she has recently told me she would probably not have accepted a marriage proposal at the time. I knew that she might not remain in the US and gave her a year to sort it out before proposing.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Julie's Husband said:


> I was / am very shy and was virgin almost until age 30. Then some women conspired to change that, but my experience is limited and that was my intention.
> 
> So my wife to be and I developed a friendship and with little help on my part became serious. The first time we spent the night together I see as making love rather than having sex.
> 
> ...


It should be obvious when someone is making love rather than f'ing your brains out. It's more tender and affectionate.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Julie's Husband said:


> Doing nothing to myself. Just idle curiosity. I think the thought is sort of funny.
> 
> I wouldn't ask her, though, as she is being real good about putting up with the emotional crap I'm going through. Between that and dealing with the results of her stroke her curiosity and sometimes humor is sometimes in short supply right now.
> 
> I was intense about the relationship and fully assumed she was as well. Maybe not, though, as that was the beginning of living together for a little over a year and she has recently told me she would probably not have accepted a marriage proposal at the time. I knew that she might not remain in the US and gave her a year to sort it out before proposing.


It can be tough, looking backward, and trying to find that moment in which your spouse fully committed to you, gave up the others. You wonder why? Chance circumstance? A plan? Bad road to go down, Plan A vs Plan B, although if upfront about it and without obvious baggage (and a healthy and continuing amount of sexual intimacy), being a Plan B might be OK.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

DownByTheRiver said:


> It should be obvious when someone is making love rather than f'ing your brains out. It's more tender and affectionate.


There are more levels than just the two you list. I was so lost in making love and feeling passionate that I don't know whether I would have noticed anyway. I didn't even question at the time.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Julie's Husband said:


> There are more levels than just the two you list. I was so lost in making love and feeling passionate that I don't know whether I would have noticed anyway. I didn't even question at the time.


You shouldn't be questioning now.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

Casual Observer said:


> It can be tough, looking backward, and trying to find that moment in which your spouse fully committed to you, gave up the others. You wonder why? Chance circumstance? A plan? Bad road to go down, Plan A vs Plan B, although if upfront about it and without obvious baggage (and a healthy and continuing amount of sexual intimacy), being a Plan B might be OK.


Yeah.

I'm pretty sure she'd not had any relations for the months at least that we spent getting to know each other before our night together. Hah! I wonder whether there might have been a chance she would have gotten irritated with my putting her through the long dry spell. She thought I was a bit weird and at times maybe gay (I'm not) since I seemed afraid to touch her (I was).


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

DownByTheRiver said:


> You shouldn't be questioning now.


Why not? I think it is an intriguingly quirky line of thought.

I'm working with counselors to deal with over the top emotions I'm still experiencing after prostate cancer hormone therapy is done. The idea is that the menopausal symptoms should be going away, but they are not. So I'm checking into whether the emotions are mental / psychological or hormonal, maybe damage from the cancer treatment. At this point it's still a toss up.

As part of this process I've gone back to deal with psychological baggage which led to conversations with "Julie" and sharing what we thought / felt at each stage of our relationship. It's been a wonderful conversation. I learned more about her feelings on sexual relations when I discussed my conversations with the "shrink" about the relations I had with the conspiring women, leading to this question. Most of the baggage is just from my being too uptight in interacting with women; the reason I was virgin until one month before my 30th birthday.


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## GG1061 (Apr 20, 2021)

Julie's Husband said:


> Why not? I think it is an intriguingly quirky line of thought.
> 
> I'm working with counselors to deal with over the top emotions I'm still experiencing after prostate cancer hormone therapy is done. The idea is that the menopausal symptoms should be going away, but they are not. So I'm checking into whether the emotions are mental / psychological or hormonal, maybe damage from the cancer treatment. At this point it's still a toss up.
> 
> As part of this process I've gone back to deal with psychological baggage which led to conversations with "Julie" and sharing what we thought / felt at each stage of our relationship. It's been a wonderful conversation. I learned more about her feelings on sexual relations when I discussed my conversations with the "shrink" about the relations I had with the conspiring women, leading to this question. Most of the baggage is just from my being too uptight in interacting with women; the reason I was virgin until one month before my 30th birthday.


A diagnosis and treatment of cancer with residual effects will have you in a mental state of questioning things about your life including your relationship(s). I understand you questioning the dynamic of your relationship some 45 years ago.

I changed after my transplant about two years ago. Could have been the threat to my life or the medications or combo of both but my family says I have changed. My thoughts have taken me back to my failed marriage to my exW after 33 years. The emotions of that hit me like it was yesterday. Current wife of 30 years had a traumatic childhood and was able to be supportive and understanding so I had that to lean on.

Given your wife’s situation I get why you are hesitant bringing up this issue now. But clarity for you seems to be a puzzle piece you need to complete the picture of your life. I hope at some point your wife can help you with this.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Julie's Husband said:


> . Now knowing that she was good with casual sex and learning that due to my inhibitions I passed up opportunities to have casual sex with her, it caused me to wonder whether she was having casual sex with me when I was making love to her. And how long into the relationship.


You're trying to classify people into different catagories based on whether they road off into the sunset with the first person they ever slept with or not. You can't really do that because there are lots of 50 year marriages that began as a drunken hook up where one came back for seconds the next day. And there are countless people that climbed into bed thinking there was potential and things just never got off the ground. 

And most importantly, whether someone has been to bed with one person or a thousand, any time clothes are hitting the floor for the first time with someone, it is hitting the 'reset' button and a new day. Whatever relationships or hook ups that came prior, it does not dictate where things go going forward. 

Just because someone had a series of hook ups in college doesn't mean that the next one won't be the one. 

And conversely, even if someone has had a traditional, monogamous marriage for the last 50 years with their high school sweetheart, that doesn't mean they won't start scoring a bunch of hook ups at retirement village.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

oldshirt said:


> You're trying to classify people into different catagories based on whether they road off into the sunset with the first person they ever slept with or not.
> 
> And conversely, even if someone has had a traditional, monogamous marriage for the last 50 years with their high school sweetheart, that doesn't mean they won't start scoring a bunch of hook ups at retirement village.


No, no classification. I just take people for who they are as unique individuals. My wife had given me plenty of hints through our marriage and before that she might have been into casual sex and I understood that in the abstract, but for the most part I thought she was just being dismissive of one thing or another.

One case is that the "shrink" used the term "recreational sex" in a conversation where I told her that I just could not believe these women would go to bed with me given I was a total stranger. When I mentioned this to my wife she said, "Of course. Meet at a coffee shop, have a conversation and then head to a motel and screw." I thought she was just being dismissive of the idea, but it turns out that is exactly what she did. She regretted that incident, not because she'd let herself be picked up, but because she found out he was married. We had been talking about regrets.

I have absolutely no issues with her past experiences other than I wish she had used her experience to coach me on how to please her. With my limited experience I spent a lot of time fumbling around trying to figure out what pleased her. A little coaching would have been incredibly appreciated.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

GG1061 said:


> A diagnosis and treatment of cancer with residual effects will have you in a mental state of questioning things about your life including your relationship(s).


 No kidding. I'm a peer support volunteer at the local cancer center and moderator on a prostate cancer web site. Relationships and men's self image are two of the first victims.

This week I decided to get a Swedish massage with a female practitioner to challenge my inhibitions of being touched. At age 76. Pathetic, eh? I told her that after the cancer treatment there had been so many physical, mental and emotional changes that I don't know what my comfort zones are or boundaries with touch.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Julie's Husband said:


> Yeah.
> 
> I'm pretty sure she'd not had any relations for the months at least that we spent getting to know each other before our night together. Hah! I wonder whether there might have been a chance she would have gotten irritated with my putting her through the long dry spell. She thought I was a bit weird and at times maybe gay (I'm not) since I seemed afraid to touch her (I was).


On my(24)1st date with my wife(27) after it was over I kissed the back of her hand. I wanted to be a gentleman.

She told her best friend..."I don't think he is attracted to me, he didn't even try to kiss me" Was not expecting a 2nd date request. She was 3.5 yrs my senior and to me I was swinging above my pay grade.

I would have sworn that was her in Playboys 1996 Girls of the Big 12. But I knew she did not attend Ohio State. She was a Texas filly. Didn't think she would have been so into this 6'05" blue eyed country boy in uniform, thank the Lord she was.

Met her end of August 96, she moved in Dec, married May 97


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

Divinely Favored said:


> ...I kissed the back of her hand. I wanted to be a gentleman. She told her best friend..."I don't think he is attracted to me, he didn't even try to kiss me"


Pretty funny when you get a complaint about being a gentleman. I got the same from the woman my SIL put in bed with me. I behaved like a perfect gentleman that night just in case she was being used.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

GG1061 said:


> I changed after my transplant about two years ago. Could have been the threat to my life or the medications or combo of both but my family says I have changed. My thoughts have taken me back to my failed marriage to my exW after 33 years.* The emotions of that hit me like it was yesterday. *Current wife of 30 years had a traumatic childhood and was able to be supportive and understanding so I had that to lean on.


there was a pretty good John Lenon song: Instant Karma

it is about the danger of living an un-examined life, and what a shock it will be when you DO finally start living one. In the song, i believe lenon is referring to if you took some LSD and suddenly saw how you were living your life and the welling up of regret for past decisions. but in fact a lot of things can suddenly make you see.

Socrates was famous for saying "the unexamined life is not worth living".

So the advice by philosophers is to examine your life in detail. and if you do not like what you see, fix it. Pledge to live better, and do so.

Even Jesus Christ was purported to tell a sinner: Go, and sin no more! 

So, your emotions hit you like a ton of bricks. Time to work on yourself. you can't change the past, but surely can change the future!


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Julie's Husband said:


> For me, our first night together was about making love. Now knowing that she was good with casual sex and learning that due to my inhibitions I passed up opportunities to have casual sex with her, it caused me to wonder whether she was having casual sex with me when I was making love to he


There was a female with very long thread on TAM who despised anyone using the term "making love". That is a term my wife and I have always used. Neither of us have ever had :"casual sex".



Julie's Husband said:


> it caused me to wonder whether she was having casual sex with me when I was making love to her. And how long into the relationship.


Seems you are over thinking the past. I am your age and also cancer survivor. The disease and treatment changes a person whether we want it to or even realize that it has.



DownByTheRiver said:


> It should be obvious when someone is making love rather than f'ing your brains out. It's more tender and affectionate.


?


Julie's Husband said:


> over the top emotions I'm still experiencing after prostate cancer hormone therapy is done.


I am guessing you are referring to hormone suppression treatment to lower T. Thankfully I never had to go through that, but would think for sure it would drag your emotions all over the place. And they will likely continue to be all over the place after the therapy is done. I had very fatalistic viewpoint for years after diagnosis and treatment.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

Rus47 said:


> There was a female with very long thread on TAM who despised anyone using the term "making love". That is a term my wife and I have always used. Neither of us have ever had :"casual sex".
> 
> I am guessing you are referring to hormone suppression treatment to lower T. Thankfully I never had to go through that, but would think for sure it would drag your emotions all over the place. And they will likely continue to be all over the place after the therapy is done. I had very fatalistic viewpoint for years after diagnosis and treatment.


I cannot see despising the term "making love". It says there is a selfless, emotional interest in the partner and partner's pleasure. It is a whole lot more involving than doing the plumbing.

Julie and I have had "casual" or playful sex; I have Poloroid photos to prove it. She grabbed a photo of me walking around her apartment fully aroused after we had a romp. Including the Speedo tan line I'd promised her in one of my two misdirected attempts at flirting. But I am very intensely into her so I prefer cuddly, serious love making. I feel like I want to melt into her.

Yes, I did have the ADT to turn off testosterone for much of 2020. Chemical castration and "manopause". Talk to any woman who has gone through menopause and they can fill you in. Total lack of interest in sex, fatigue, over the top emotions (the worst part for me), hot flushes, loss of muscle mass and bone density um so weiter.

Whether we recover depends on the damage done during treatment. Gotta be in condition to grow a new pair among other things. 🙄


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Julie's Husband said:


> Yep, done right. I was making love to her. I know the difference. Love is an emotional investment and I had a huge emotional investment in the relationship.


You are so overthinking things. Stop it. Don't live in the past, as that is not where your relationship with this woman will be.

If you were making love to her, that usually means you want a serious relationship and you wanted the feel-good sex hormones to help emotionally bond the two of you. It obviously worked! So it really doesn't matter in a real sense why she wanted to have sex with her, now does it? The result was the same from your perspective. The two of you have now emotionally bonded and marriage is the natural result. All that is important is that you love her, she loves you, the two of your are compatible in your life goals and beliefs. 

My advice is for the two of you to have some "deep emotional" conversations about the future together. What do you want you relationship to look like in 10 years? ......20 years? ......30 years? ....What joint goals do you have? What are some of the bucket list things you want to do while you are still young enough to do them?

Good luck.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Young at Heart said:


> My advice is for the two of you to have some "deep emotional" conversations about the future together. What do you want you relationship to look like in 10 years? ......20 years? ......30 years? ....What joint goals do you have? What are some of the bucket list things you want to do while you are still young enough to do them?


Just remember that at @Julie's Husband and my age we probably shouldn't buy green bananas and whatever was in the bucket has been done or most likely will never be done. When I run the lifespan predictions, they all point to another 15 for me maximum.

As far as deep emotional conversations, wife and I having been married so long we pretty much know what the other is going to say next. 

My advice to @Julie's Husband is to recognize the role his cancer and it's treatment has in thoughts and moods, maybe explain to his wife the crap running through his head and why. 

When I was originally diagnosed, all I wanted was a quick death so my wife could get on with the rest of her life. And it took a long time for the depression to lift, but it did. 

He should relax and enjoy the rest of the journey as much as possible, stop taking private walks down memory lane to turn over rocks from the past. There are snakes and spiders under them. Don't sweat the small ( or the large ) stuff.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

Young at Heart said:


> You are so overthinking things. Stop it. Don't live in the past, as that is not where your relationship with this woman will be.
> 
> My advice is for the two of you to have some "deep emotional" conversations about the future together. ... What are some of the bucket list things you want to do while you are still young enough to do them?


I'm not living in the past, but rather I'm reflecting on what has turned up in sessions with my "shrink" in dealing with emotional baggage. I'm dealing with depression and extreme emotions that may be psychological or may be lingering effects of the hormone treatment for the prostate cancer. The "shrink" is helping me sort out the psychological end.

We are closing in on 46 years into our relationship if you include the get-to-know-you time. She is 75 and I am 76. We have had some very interesting and wonderful conversations as a result of dealing with the cancer. We have opened up considerably and really gotte to know each other. 

I share my conversations with the "shrink" with my wife and this leads to even more mutual exploration. Very interesting and beneficial. I have high hopes for the next 20 years or so.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

Rus47 said:


> As far as deep emotional conversations, wife and I having been married so long we pretty much know what the other is going to say next.
> 
> My advice...is to...maybe explain to his wife the crap running through his head and why.
> 
> ...


We thought we knew each other pretty well until the post diagnosis conversations. We became aware we had been seeing each other through assumptions based on our individual life experiences. 

Example: she comes from a male dominant culture in Australia. She sees my egalitarian attitude as indecisiveness. I recently made a snap decision to spend $3000 that would load up the credit card without her being a part of the decision. She thought this was great.

I had a good idea of what was coming with cancer treatment and took an aggressive approach. The post diagnosis conversation was part of that. She is well aware of what is going on with me and I am aware of the demons she is fighting after her stroke. She was my rock all through cancer treatment.

Dunno about memory lane, but I am learning that I'm still boxed in by the past. Need to find the exit. Having my first Swedish massage last week was part of that.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Julie's Husband said:


> Dunno about memory lane, but I am learning that I'm still boxed in by the past. Need to find the exit.


Well, the last exit will arrive sooner rather than later. As I mentioned, mortality comes to my mind more and more with every passing month. Covid brought that into focus even more as had a number of friends exit before we thought they would. 

Be careful with the Swedish massage lol ( not even sure what it is ).

BTW, I notice someone decided to resurrect the debate regarding 'lovemaking' as opposed to 'having sex' or 'f*ing brains out'. Coarseness is the rule of the day. I think have just lived past my 'best by date', recognize society less and less every day..


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Rus47 said:


> Just remember that at @Julie's Husband and my age we probably shouldn't buy green bananas and whatever was in the bucket has been done or most likely will never be done. When I run the lifespan predictions, they all point to another 15 for me maximum.
> 
> As far as deep emotional conversations, wife and I having been married so long we pretty much know what the other is going to say next.
> 
> ...


My wife and I are in our early 70's and we have been through a lot together. We have been there for each other through hospital emergencies and recovery. We still have bucket lists full of things we want to do. Covid has put many on hold the past couple years. Still talking and planning for the future is still an exciting activity.

I agree whole heartedly, to let the past problems be in the past and to forgive her and myself for things in the past. We can only control the future, and only a small part of that.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Julie's Husband said:


> No kidding. I'm a peer support volunteer at the local cancer center and moderator on a prostate cancer web site. Relationships and men's self image are two of the first victims.
> 
> This week I decided to get *a Swedish massage with a female practitioner* to challenge my inhibitions of being touched. At age 76. Pathetic, eh? I told her that after the cancer treatment there had been so many physical, mental and emotional changes that I don't know what my comfort zones are or boundaries with touch.


In my 60's I took up some endurance sports (half marathon runs, Century or 100 mile bike rides, etc.) There is absolutely nothing wrong with massage. Legitimate massage practitioners are licensed and medical professionals. Massage sometimes has a sketchy reputation. Don't feel bad about getting naked with a licensed female massage practioner. They will make sure that you are covered up as much as is appropriate and they are professionals in a lincensed medical related field. 

What I found the most helpful in recovering from sports injuries was what is usually called "deep tissue" massage. There are many different styles that can provide such massage, and Swedish is just one of many. There is accupressure massage, trigger point massage, I like to just ask for deep tissue massage and indicate that areas that have muscle knots or tension and let them use their hands to find the details. Even with the deep tissue massage, there is lots of relaxing satisfying touch. Each massage school or technique has slightly different goals, but they all provide you with touch, relaxation and bring your body into harmony.

One of the things, I don't see people talk about much is how much people are social animals and need to be touched. Dr. Sue Johnson in her book Hold Me Tight, explains the biological needs of mammals and people in particular to be touched and how important it is to them. The concept of "Laying on of Hands" is viewed as a method of healing in some circles. I think that during periods of physical and emotional recovery massage can have both physical and emotional benefits. You might look into that for yourself and your support group.

My wife and I are a few years younger (our early 70's) but look forward to the future and making it as good as we can.

Good luck.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

Rus47 said:


> Well, the last exit will arrive sooner rather than later. As I mentioned, mortality comes to my mind more and more with every passing month.
> 
> Be careful with the Swedish massage lol ( not even sure what it is ).


The only mortality I worry about is my wife's. There were two incidents where I thought I'd lost her and that is wearing on me. 

Incident one, she is on blood thinner and a nose bleed turned into a trip to the emergency room. At one point she passed out and was not breathing well, would not respond to me. More recently I heard a loud thump and found her on the bathroom floor. She did not respond to me for a couple of minutes.

I fully expect to live into my 90s. Barring major events like ovarian cancer, most of my family has lived into their 90s. I get irritated with the prostate cancer scene where I am being evaluated on the actuarial tables that claim I'll not make 10 more years.

Swedish massage is full body massage with light to moderate pressure. It is meant for relaxation.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

Young at Heart said:


> In my 60's I took up some endurance sports (half marathon runs, Century or 100 mile bike rides, etc.) There is absolutely nothing wrong with massage. Legitimate massage practitioners are licensed and medical professionals. Massage sometimes has a sketchy reputation. Don't feel bad about getting naked with a licensed female massage practioner. They will make sure that you are covered up as much as is appropriate and they are professionals in a lincensed medical related field.
> 
> One of the things, I don't see people talk about much is how much people are social animals and need to be touched. Dr. Sue Johnson in her book Hold Me Tight, explains the biological needs of mammals and people in particular to be touched and how important it is to them. The concept of "Laying on of Hands" is viewed as a method of healing in some circles. I think that during periods of physical and emotional recovery massage can have both physical and emotional benefits. You might look into that for yourself and your support group.


My wife and I got into longer distance bicycling in our mid 50s. We lived in San Ramon Valley in the SF Bay area. San Ramon Valley Blvd going from San Ramon to Walnut Creek is a popular biking route. It is a narrow valley, so we could go East or West of San Ramon Valley Blvd up into the hills to make a 30 to 40 mile ride. We also did several metric centuries. I have NO athletic interest so these were just fun rides.

She had a massage business for about 10 years so I'm quite familiar with all the modalities.

HOWEVER, I am a very inhibited person and socially inept when interacting with women. Strictly no touch. None.

Just before my 30th birthday some women decided to change my virgin lifestyle, but I remained inhibited and cut the recreational sex short. I needed a relationship. I had a very interesting "courtship" with my wife to be. 

Once married, I didn't need to worry about relationships with other women and never grew out of my inhibitions. I never grew up emotionally. This has come back to bite me in dealing with current depression and emotions that MIGHT be from hormone treatment I received for prostate cancer.

At this point I feel restricted by the inhibitions and decided to begin looking for ways to challenge them. Being touched by women is one of my inhibitions so I decided to go for a full body Swedish massage with a female practitioner in hopes it will help me learn to accept and feel okay with touch. 

I've had my first massage, a very emotional experience. I'll probably continue and maybe scout out practitioners that might be up to my wife's high standards. She has had physical issues and is working to get to the point she can have massage. She knows, likes and needs massage.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

What kind of emotions surfaced for you with the massage?


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

heartsbeating said:


> What kind of emotions surfaced for you with the massage?


Dunno, didn't think about it. Generalized, I guess. Typical emotions are needy emotions.

When I was on my face, massage to the neck and one other I can't remember caused big involuntary sighs and maybe a quiet sob or two. While on my back some moves caused me to leak tears.


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