# Newlywed here. How do I go about asserting my role as a husband?



## Ciccone (Mar 13, 2015)

My wife and I have been married for a little less than a year now. I guess this is where the whole thing about having a private little ceremony with family backfires on me, because it really didn't become a public spectacle in any regard. Some friends on both sides, family, and the people at our office know, but without the massive wedding, the fancy photos, the save-the-date postcards, and the Facebook attention whoring, we usually have to tell people that we're married. Reunite with an old friend? "Hey, so I got married last year!". That kind of stuff. 

The problem I'm having is that I feel as if everyone in my wife's life feels at liberty to ask her out to things "as friends". She'll boo and hiss whenever I have reservations about it, and the subject itself has gotten heated. It's one thing to meet for a coffee or something, and it's another thing to be asked to be someone's wedding date, or to go to the town fair/concert with another man for an entire night. In some instances, I can assume the guy just does not know, and innocently asks. If you were to make an assessment on us on Facebook, for example, you'd think we're just casual friends. We're not "married on Facebook", nor do we constantly interact, post pictures, tag outings, and that kind of stuff. Other people, like the manager at her office, *do* know that she's married, and will still ask her out to things.

You might think that I'm probably insecure, overprotective, or domineering (her favorite words), but there's a big difference between Mikey from down the street that you've known your whole life (for example), and Andy, who hasn't been subtle in professing his love for you in the past. As far as the manager goes, he's just old, creepy, and lonely. But in the Andy example, I just don't trust. Add to the fact that 3 beers in, and my wife is so drunk that you need subtitles to understand what she's saying, I feel like I'm not exactly in the greatest position to trust.

All of my married friends, regardless if I am friends with the husband or the wife first, are a package deal. Obviously, I can always find time alone with the husband, but I wouldn't dare to ask out the wife one-on-one, taking advantage of my "I'm married too" card. I've never had a problem with that, either. My wife will be so casual about being asked out, that she'll assume that I'll be so cool with it that she can just mention it because it's no big deal to me, and she's all but agreed to go. It's always "just a friend", it's always "just the manager". She's yet to actually go to anything. It's not that I have a problem trusting her, but one, I don't run an escort service, and two, I don't trust anyone around her when she's drunk. 

I dated a girl once, much like her (in terms of the creepy beta friend and the low tolerance), and she had her little creepy guy friend that she always insisted was harmless and just a friend. One night, she went over to his place for a party, when she calls me crying later that night. He had gotten her drunk, she had passed out drunk, and when she came to, he was on top of her moments away from climax. That was her lovely, innocent, perfect little guy friend that she loved to defend so much. It was horrible, and had she not called the cops, I'm sure I would've killed him. I'll never relive that one again.

Now on my wife's side, she's probably pissed that her ex was a lot more liberal than I was, but that's because he was cheating on her the entire time. So all she gathered out of that was that he was cool to let her go out, go to weddings with the same friend, but not that he was doing so to get some alone time with his side chick. But enough about our pasts, the glaring difference here is that we're both married, and I'm having a hell of a hard time figuring out how to set my boundaries so that people don't feel so eager to approach my wife with this nonsense.

My wife is smart, she reads, and is good at her job... you know, that kind of stuff. But growing up, she was extremely sheltered, and henceforth, her mind is completely in 1985 mode. She truly believes in the good in people, meanwhile I'm definitely a lot more jaded, because I've been burnt badly, and I've heard the worst stories from my friends imaginable. Point I'm making is that she'll help a guy in a dark alley move a couch into his windowless van because he looks like he needs the help, whereas I've seen The Silence of the Lambs.

So what should I do? Start a smothering campaign on Facebook to say that I'm married? Post more pictures? Tag myself everywhere? Have her get a tattoo of my face on her forearm? Pee on her? I'm out of ideas. Help!


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

What you need to do is educate your wife to the fact that she is MARRIED. Married people don't pose as dates for others, go to concerts overnight with others etc.

Why did she get married if she wants to pretend she's single? Are you sure it was her ex who was cheating?


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## Ciccone (Mar 13, 2015)

Blondilocks said:


> What you need to do is educate your wife to the fact that she is MARRIED. Married people don't pose as dates for others, go to concerts overnight with others etc.
> 
> Why did she get married if she wants to pretend she's single? Are you sure it was her ex who was cheating?


Yes, I am 100% certain he was. We have a lot of mutual friends that aren't partial to her, but are definitely friends of his who have confirmed it. 

But as far as behaving married goes, she's seriously struggling with the idea that these things aren't ok anymore. I don't put her in that weird position, I don't go out with the girls or anything. I've been very popular my entire life, and if I'm asked, she's either coming with me, or I'm not going. I don't just dress up and say "Later!". I'm never even invited, like the aforementioned package deal. And it's weird.


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## TAM2013 (Jul 15, 2013)

"How do I go about asserting my role as a husband?"

It's a bit late for that, mate. If this isn't a joke, I have never, ever heard of such a feminized approach from a man. She's walking all over you and you let happen, right from the start.

If you haven't got the balls to divorce her, next time she goes on a date (that's what they are, don't kid yourself) go game another woman. No, scrap that. Game 10. If she doesn't respond by removing every other man from her life for the sake of you, she hasn't got the slightest interest in you and you are her provider while she has sex with other men. Sorry.

Read this:

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/the-sixteen-commandments-of-poon/

Back to the drawing board for you, fella.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

I have plenty of friends and coworkers who aren't on Facebook. Believe it or not, people are able to ascertain who is married and who isnt without social media. Now what reason does your wife have for not making her marital status clear to people she meets? Or worse yet people she has known for some time? 

The real problem is she at a minimum enjoys the attention she receives from these guys. And her marital status is of no consequence to them- or to her. She is disrespecting you and the marriage by continuing to interact with these guys. How much more are you going to tolerate? Because she is going to keep pushing the envelope, if she hasn't already.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

All advise here is very good. I will add, listen to your gut feeling and inner voice. If her going out bothers you, address it. Address anything that bothers you like that. If she changes, great! But! you are only married a year. Do not wait 20 years, or more, to decide you cant live like this. Her continued actions will be setting her up for many future affairs. Much better to end this early, and cut her loose. Once you add children to this, things get progressively more difficult. Unfortunately, many many men on TAM speak from personal experience on this. If she refuses to change, and take the marriage seriously. Have her served, and find someone much more compatible.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

"I don't allow my wife to date other men."


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Ciccone said:


> The problem I'm having is that I feel as if everyone in my wife's life feels at liberty to ask her out to things "as friends". *She'll boo and hiss whenever I have reservations about it*, and the subject itself has gotten heated. It's one thing to meet for a coffee or something, and* it's another thing to be asked to be someone's wedding date, or to go to the town fair/concert with another man for an entire night*.* In some instances, I can assume the guy just does not know, and innocently asks. *If you were to make an assessment on us on Facebook, for example, you'd think we're just casual friends. We're not "married on Facebook", nor do we constantly interact, post pictures, tag outings, and that kind of stuff. *Other people, like the manager at her office, do know that she's married, and will still ask her out to things.*


The larger problem isn't Facebook.

Quite simply it's that you both have different boundaries about what is ok with friends. The reason so many of her friends ask her out to things (males) and that they see no issue with it is because* she accepts it* as ok. Staying out all night at the fair with another man? Honey, that sounds a lot like a date. Going to a wedding as someone's actual "wedding date" when married? Honey, that is just as bad as it sounds. So this keeps happening because she accepts and sees nothing wrong with it, hence her getting pouty at you when you say it's not ok/you're not cool with it.

Now on the other hand, you tolerate it. You keep letting it go on and on and so she feels that it's just water under the bridge cause you have made it clear you're gonna just put up with it. And you've showed her this over and over again because you haven't put your foot down. The time to do this was during dating. And had it continued, you coulda broken it off. 

You sound young. But young is still not excuse for her foolery. 

Have an honest talk with her and ask her how she would feel if YOU were going as one of your gal pals' "wedding dates" to a wedding; or staying out all night at the county fair with a woman. Or going out with your female boss who knows your married. Or you could start hanging out with your female friends one-on-one and note invite her, like how she does you, and see how that makes her feel. (Note: she's gonna hate it).

It sounds bad on the surface because it IS bad.

So whether you tag yourself in more pictures on a internet website or get a tattoo - it doesn't change the fact that you both view this behavior in very opposite ways. That is what the main issue is.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

GTdad said:


> "I don't allow my wife to date other men."


I need to expand on this a bit.

Tell her (or these other guys, for that matter) just this, then STFU. Don't explain and don't argue about it. Something this clear and reasonable isn't something that merits a debate.

Either she'll get it or she won't. If she doesn't, I'd say your course is pretty clear, too. Don't you?


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

GTdad said:


> "I don't allow my wife to date other men."


I don't allow my Gf to date other men either. 


Is this what the younger generation are doing now a days? Dating while in a relationship ?


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

She can choose to "date" other men but you don't have to put up with it. She's intelligent, so you don't need to draw pictures for her. Just tell her she can act married or she can act single. If she chooses to act single, you will make her status match her actions.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Oh boy is she losing respect for you by allowing this.
Tell her she can date as many guys as she wants...just not as your wife.
I can't believe it was her ex who was cheating.
Please stop putting up with this.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

The talk of allowing. It's funny because I remember this one (or more) thread where men were all saying "you don't allow your husband to use porn? ALLOW?" 

Just saying...double standards etc

Firstly what is wrong with saying you're married on FB? I don't get it really. What's wrong with posting some pictures? Don't you want people to know you are married. Is it a secret unless men hit on her? 

Anywho 

How much time do you spend with your wife? How much attention do you give her? How much do you compliment her? How many times a day do you truly notice her? How many times a day do you touch her in a non sexual way? 

Also have you talked about your own boundaries and relationship boundaries. 

Be in control of yourself. Don't be controlling. The first is so sexy- the second yeah not so much.


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## MarriedTex (Sep 24, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> She can choose to "date" other men but you don't have to put up with it. She's intelligent, so you don't need to draw pictures for her. Just tell her she can act married or she can act single. If she chooses to act single, you will make her status match her actions.


Quoted for truth. 

You're not be unreasonable or crazy.

Quick question: Does she wear a wedding ring? Certainly wearing a wedding ring is not an absolute guarantee of protection. But, like a security system on a residential home, it may deter the casual thief.


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

You need to put and end to this right now and I don't mean through the media but directly to her. I she balks, divorce immediately before you get too invested.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

*LittleDeer* said:


> The talk of allowing. It's funny because I remember this one (or more) thread where men were all saying "you don't allow your husband to use porn? ALLOW?"
> 
> Just saying...double standards etc


I'm no fan of porn, but it occurs to me that there's a slight difference between what one does by his or her lonesome and what one does with other people. Dating, for instance. I understand that you have an agenda, but I'd suggest being a little more judicious as to when and where to push it.



*LittleDeer* said:


> Anywho
> 
> How much time do you spend with your wife? How much attention do you give her? How much do you compliment her? How many times a day do you truly notice her? How many times a day do you touch her in a non sexual way?
> 
> ...


Listen to this advice at your peril, Ciccone. The first and second paragraphs is stuff you should be doing anyways, but it ISN'T the response to the issue you have now. You are not going to "nice" your way out of your current problem.

The third paragraph will spell your doom, Ciccone. This is exactly what your wife will say when you draw a hard line, and your instinct will be to back down. "You're so controlling and insecure!" "When it comes to my marriage, yes, yes I am protective of it. I expect you to be protective of it as well."


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

MarriedTex said:


> Quick question: Does she wear a wedding ring? Certainly wearing a wedding ring is not an absolute guarantee of protection. But, like a security system on a residential home, it may deter the casual thief.


I can see where you're going with that - but my parents don't wear their rings and have been married forever and don't do not spend all day with the opposite sex, direspecting each other and attending events' as someone's "date" when they are married to each other.

It's not about the ring. It's not about Facebook. It's about the fact that she thinks it's ok and continues to do it and he tolerates it.

Also, many people wear their wedding rings and still cheat. Just saying.

OP and his wife have a *fundamental* difference in the way they view boundaries. That is the issue here.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

You don't smother her on FB. You smother the others on FB. What you do is take her out every weekend. Concert, dinner or just a darn trip to the store. Post it! It is so easy! Going out to dinner with my W(Send). Fun date night with my W(Send) Just saw a moving with a hot babe named(placed your W name here)(Send). W will like the attention as well. 


And as other said...W's don't date OM. Sure, sure...just friends. No sir, W and I go together with the just friend. W will go with her GF to dinner and that is great. Going to a concert with another guy and without me in the invite? Never happening. 

Your W needs to realize marriage includes you both when going out unless GNO or some such things as baby showers, etc.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Betrayedone said:


> You need to put and end to this right now and I don't mean through the media but directly to her. I she balks, divorce immediately before you get too invested.


Not even a year married you should be in the honeymoon phase.
Divorce now before you have kids.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

tom67 said:


> Tell her she can date as many guys as she wants...just not as your wife.


I like this very much.

Say this to her.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Ciccone said:


> Yes, I am 100% certain he was. We have a lot of mutual friends that aren't partial to her, but are definitely friends of his who have confirmed it.
> 
> But as far as behaving married goes, she's seriously struggling with the idea that these things aren't ok anymore. I don't put her in that weird position, I don't go out with the girls or anything. I've been very popular my entire life, and if I'm asked, she's either coming with me, or I'm not going. I don't just dress up and say "Later!". I'm never even invited, like the aforementioned package deal.* And it's weird.*


What i feel is going on here is your W has not grasped the idea of what a marriage entails. In other words, you are almost in a friend zone or really in it.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

She hasn't grasped it because he has shown her he is totally ok with what she does by tolerating it and accepting it over and over again, since the time they were dating. Why would she feel any different since he hasn't shown her any different?


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> She hasn't grasped it because he has shown her he is totally ok with what she does by tolerating it and accepting it over and over again, since the time they were dating. Why would she feel any different since he hasn't shown her any different?


As Gus would say...
WORD
:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Jellybeans said:


> She hasn't grasped it because he has shown her he is totally ok with what she does by tolerating it and accepting it over and over again, since the time they were dating. Why would she feel any different since he hasn't shown her any different?


Good point but now it appears it is ingrained, expected and status quo. How to get around it? Communicate the college type lifestyle of going out with other guys is now a thing of the past. She either accepts it or not. If not...time to reconsider the marriage.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

He has to change his reaction to it and what he says to her.

Because we all know, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

Yeswecan said:


> Good point but now it appears it is ingrained, expected and status quo. How to get around it? Communicate the college type lifestyle of going out with other guys is now a thing of the past. She either accepts it or not. If not...time to reconsider the marriage.


You all have a point, and it may be to late to steer the Titanic. But what the hell, it's not too late to try.

"I've decided that I'm not okay with you going out with other men. I want that to stop, as of now. You need to decide whether you're willing to live with that. We'll talk about this again this evening."


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2014)

Way too much crap to be dealing with less than a year in to a marriage. You guys should still be out making other people sick with your "puppy love".

Do your future self a favor and end this before you get trapped by a pregnancy or some of the more painful divorce statutes. This is about as basic of an incompatibility issue as you can get. Go find a woman who believes in a monogamous marriage like you do and she can go find a swinger.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Hows this. Let her know that the only guy she dates is her husband and that's the way it is. 

She gives you attitude then you let her know that she should have thought a bit it before she said I do and her dating days are over and say it in a way she understands that she's a married woman.

Next thing you need to do is get your self respect back. If you can't respect yourself, she sure as hell wont. And if she keeps it up then let her know that if she doesn't like the arrangements then you can solve that problem real quick and hit her with divorce papers. You better nip this in the bud real quick because you said she's a smart girl and maybe so but she seriously lacks common sense.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

*LittleDeer* said:


> The talk of allowing. It's funny because I remember this one (or more) thread where men were all saying "you don't allow your husband to use porn? ALLOW?"
> 
> Just saying...double standards etc
> 
> ...


Umm so to your mind dating another person and watching porn is the same thing? Wow


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

As a man you need to have values. You need to speak about your values in a fairly regular basis. And you need to give your wife choices and see if her values line up with yours. You need to up the consequences to eventually her choosing to share your value or accept that it means divorce.

Here is an example: Value: In my marriage neither of us goes out on dates. 

Here's how you say it "Wife, in my way of thinking, married people are not supposed to go out on dates with other people. What do you think?"

If she claims these are not dates, you tell her they are dates and don't argue about what you know.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Ciccone,

How often is your wife going out like this with other men? How many times a week and/or month?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

This idea that a person does not allow their spouse to do something is, uh, not gonna work. Why? Because they are equal. He is not her father.

I get what you all are saying using the word "allow". You are doing that he should not accept her dating. But words have meaning/connotation. In order to not "allow" something, a person has to have control of some kind over the other.

The way for the OP to handle this is for him to put down boundaries and then stick to them. Boundaries are not about control, they are about what an individual accepts for themself.

He needs to tell her something like:

"I will not be in a marriage in which my wife dates other men, even if it's platonic dating."

"If you continue to date other men, I will leave this marriage."

that's it. But he has to be willing to actually leave the marriage. If he is not willing to leave the marriage over this, then clearly, while her dating bothers him, it does not bother him enough to take action.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

GTdad said:


> I need to expand on this a bit.
> 
> Tell her (or these other guys, for that matter) just this, then STFU. Don't explain and don't argue about it. Something this clear and reasonable isn't something that merits a debate.
> 
> Either she'll get it or she won't. If she doesn't, I'd say your course is pretty clear, too. Don't you?



It would be a good idea to be careful with the language. For example, she may say "it's not a date, we're just friends." The response to this is, "they are date like situations and your male friends may get confused at some point."

I learned this when I was dealing with my husband during our courtship. He never wanted to acknowledge that seeing his female friend was date...... even though he was paying for her and providing transportation. And yes, I did learn, after closing a bar tab for her and her friends he went in for the open mouth kiss and had to come to terms with the fact she friendzoned him.

Cicone, it's possible that your wife may have one of those moments as well.

What was your courtship like? Were you aware of these male buddies while dating her?


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> This idea that a person does not allow their spouse to do something is, uh, not gonna work. Why? Because they are equal. He is not her father.
> 
> I get what you all are saying using the word "allow". You are doing that he should not accept her dating. But words have meaning/connotation. In order to not "allow" something, a person has to have control of some kind over the other.
> 
> ...


I think allowed is a perfectly reasonable word. You are marreid and marriage has rules and vows. Some people, swingers for example, allow each of their spouses to date and hook up.

So in this case it would seem that they are married and aren't swingers. So yes to step outside that marriage the other person either allows that or doesn't. Same thing in non marriage where two people agree to commitment. Unless allowed to step outside it's cheating right? Anyway that's why I used that word in my post. I don't see it as negative I only see it as these are the defined rules we have and I'm not allowing a deviation of those rules. I would get the same back from any woman I'm sure and 100% rightfully so. It's a difference between you aren't allowed to break these rules and you aren't allowed to have a beer tonight. The second is controlling

I agree with the rest this needs to have a strong consequence attached to any dialog he has. as the example you posted.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

She is not an innocent protected wallflower that needs gentle handling. She knows exactly what she is doing and to whom and she also knows that it is hurting you. 

Unless it is explicitly allowed by both partners it is not okay in a relationship to go on dates with other people. 

You need to learn to say a word that may end your marriage. It may move it onto a whole new level though! 
.
The word is:
"No." Said simply, without anger and without bitterness.
Nope. Nada, Niet.

You must say no to her. She will probably be furious, she will threaten and even blank you for a few days but make it clear, calmly and directly that you will not accept this.

This is not controlling. You are simply stating your own boundaries for this relationship. 

If she does not accept your request that this behaviour ends then you need to say no again. 
"No I will not accept this."
The consequence of her "No" is that the marriage ends.

I suspect you already know this and that you are here as a sanity check. Yep. Your sane.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

Face reality. Your wife doesn't want to be known as a married woman. She doesn't want to live a married woman's world where feelings and boundaries of a husband are in place. You have placed her in a pedestal (she's intelligent as you said). You need to place her on the floor where you can see the real picture. It is only a matter of time when an affair will happen. 

She will not change and you will continue to dislike her ways. You will grow resentful and angry. In time, you will either become a doormat and allow your wife to run over you or you will divorce her. Cut your losses while your married life is still early. You have married a party girl who does not honor her husband.


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## MountainRunner (Dec 30, 2014)

Roselyn said:


> Face reality. Your wife doesn't want to be known as a married woman. *She doesn't want to live a married woman's world where feelings and boundaries of a husband are in place.* You have placed her in a pedestal (she's intelligent as you said). You need to place her on the floor where you can see the real picture. It is only a matter of time when an affair will happen.
> 
> She will not change and you will continue to dislike her ways. You will grow resentful and angry. In time, you will either become a doormat and allow your wife to run over you or you will divorce her. Cut your losses while your married life is still early. *You have married a party girl who does not honor her husband.*


I'm afraid I have to concur.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

You're absolutely sane OP. Your wife's behaviour is highly inappropriate. I also agree with others who have said that the problem is not FB, or a small wedding (my wedding was small and private too btw)...it's lack of boundaries.

I've also said before, and I'll say it again - a spouse is not a parent. You can't allow, forbid, not allow etc. your spouse to do/not do something. 

All you can do is state your (perfectly reasonable in this case) boundaries and hold to them. Tell her "I won't be married to someone who <insert inappropriate activity>. If it doesn't stop, I will <insert consequence>"

Then follow through. If you do nothing, then that's on you and you have no business complaining in the future about it. This won't stop until you take a stand.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

This is not a healthy relationship, OP. In a healthy relationship, two partners have boundaries that they respect in the best interest of the relationship, but also respect the fact that the partners are also individuals.

The OP's wife doesn't understand that she needs to establish boundaries with her behavior out of respect for the health of the relationship, but she is asserting her independence; the OP wants to establish boundaries (allowing her or not allowing her to go out) that are int he best interest of the relationship, but that doesn't respect her need to still be an individual.

OP, you clearly don't trust her to make the best decisions for the relationship. I'm wondering why you chose to marry someone that you don't trust, someone who feels makes such poor decisions that you have to be the one to make the decisions for her? I find her decisions in this situation to be poor, and her behavior to be immature; but your behavior (or at least your attitude in wanting to tell her what you can and cannot do) is coming across as incredibly controlling.

Since many other here are giving examples from their own experience, or perspective, I will as well. I'm not currently in a relationship, FYI. I have a relatively small social circle, and most of my friends happen to be male, and I go out and do stuff with them--but these friendships are most definitely platonic, and will never be anything else. Any man that I date knows early on that this is part of my package, and I'm not going to give up my friends because of any jealousy on his part, because they've been around a lot longer than he is, and if a guy expects me to choose, I'm going to choose my friends. That being said, any guy that I get serious about is going to get to know my friends. Very well. He's going to meet them, he's going to hang out with them, and he's going to hear all their sh!t from me; when he does that, he's going to see how I am with them, and he's going to see that he has nothing to worry about. But... once I'm in a serious relationship, I'm also not going to be making any NEW platonic male friends. I may make some new acquaintances via association, but no one that I'm going to be hanging out with one-on-one. And any potential one-on-one with established platonic friends? My partner is welcome to come along. But one-on-ones with friends don't extend to late nights out, being someone's date to a wedding, or anything else that might be misconstrued as a "date." That's a boundary one just doesn't cross, especially in a marriage. And if my partner expressed any concerns about the appropriateness of the behavior of any of my friends (or MY behavior), I would listen and take that very seriously.

OP, you DO seem to recognize the difference between old friends and new "threats." So good for you on that, and I don't think you're overreacting to this situation.

OP, how well do you know these men she's been going out with? Have you met them at all? Is there a chance that she just likes to be more social than you? Someone mentioned that she's a party girl. Maybe she's going out with other people because she thinks you're not interested in doing these things with her.

Nevertheless, you need to lay down the law with her. Not necessarily saying that you won't allow her to go, because she will chafe against the controlling nature of that assertion, but get it through her thick skull that it's killing your marriage. At this point, she may not hear you... as much as you're acting like her parent, she's acting like a rebellious teenager. 

If you guys aren't in MC yet, you should be... she may hear it better coming from a professional. And if this problem can't be fixed, and really is the end of this marriage, an MC will help ease that process, too.

Best of luck


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

GTdad said:


> I'm no fan of porn, but it occurs to me that there's a slight difference between what one does by his or her lonesome and what one does with other people. Dating, for instance. I understand that you have an agenda, but I'd suggest being a little more judicious as to when and where to push it.


It's not my agenda. It's my opinion. What is your agenda? 

Anyway, my point was there is hypocrisy afoot. 

If you are doing something that makes your spouse unhappy and uncomfortable, instead of dismissing it as controlling maybe think about fairness etc

Also if your spouse is doing things that hurt you or your marriage perhaps don't control them and think you can allow or disallow anything. You can however tell them what your own boundaries are and be in control of yourself. 

It might be great though if people didn't have double standards is all.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

MMSLP read it.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

You are far too "modern" in your marriage. I suggest you read "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Dr. Robert Glover. Also you should read "Not Just Friends".

The younger generation seems to think it is cool, modern, hip to not apply boundaries. But boundaries are necessary and good. 

You are entitled to your feelings! Repeat: You are entitled to your feelings! What she is doing feels bad to you. You are entitled to feel bad! She is entitled to disagree with you, too. But nevertheless, it does bother you and you have the right to be bothered by it.

So you have the right to set a boundary. No one-on-one events with men, with a few exceptions for necessary business functions. A business sales lunch, for example, is ok. But not repeated social events with men from work outside of work hours.

The most likely affair partner is an ex. Why? Because she's already had a romantic and sexual relationship. Next up is probably an old friend whom she never officially dated. These are high risk. Tons of cases happen where the woman ends up saying she never intended for an affair to happen, but things just suddenly got out of control.

You both need to establish boundaries around the marriage to protect it. You can do social things with other couples and with same sex friends. On rare occasions something with opposite sex friends, but keeping in mind it is risky and to maintain distance.

Why in the world are you two hiding that you're married? Is this some kind of thing nowadays to not tell anyone and to keep it secret?


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Ciccone said:


> The problem I'm having is that I feel as if everyone in my wife's life feels at liberty to ask her out to things "as friends". She'll boo and hiss whenever I have reservations about it, and the subject itself has gotten heated.
> 
> It's always "just a friend", it's always "just the manager". She's yet to actually go to anything.


Time to pee on her. That gave me a chuckle.


So she hasn't actually attended anything as yet but keeps getting asked? Echoing others, this isn't about social media or public displays. It is about asserting what you're cool with for your marriage - and a mutual respect to be found within those boundaries. The good news is that each of you can grow and mature with all these experiences that you'll share. 

I hope that she's able to discover that she can be self-validating, vulnerable and trusting with you, to allow herself to grow out of these shenanigans and let herself be loved by you. In this scenario, it's her actions that will communicate to both your marriage and to other men, that you and her are tight and are to be respected.

I hope that you're able to keep with your own integrity and assertion of what your expectations are of one another, in terms of friendships, in order to what feels respectful to you and protects your marriage. You both have a choice in how to proceed. Marriage, life in general, is full of micro-choices.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

FeministInPink said:


> Since many other here are giving examples from their own experience, or perspective, I will as well.


Me too... in our early days of dating, I had guys around me. I was somewhat flippant in attitude. We had the occasional heated discussion about this. I didn't actually go to anything but we were both trying to find our place and what it meant to be in the relationship. I had a lot to learn about myself (still so much more to go!), what that attention meant to me, and what it meant to receive his love. Ultimately what it meant to be vulnerable.


When hubs and I had been dating a few months, there was a guy that had been declaring his admiration for me and wanted to meet. We didn't know each other. Hubs made it clear to me that he wasn't cool with me meeting him - which I didn't. The fact that it was even a conversation, was a testament to my immaturity at the time and still learning my own boundaries. However instead... hubs had been out with his buddy when they coincidentally bumped into said guy. Hubs' buddy mentioned to me that I wouldn't be hearing from him again. He laughed and insinuated they had scared him off. I wasn't sure what to make of this. They were both a bit coy about it all. Years later, hubs and I were talking about that time. I asked him to be straight with me about what happened with that guy. He said he made it known that I was spoken for but they hadn't threatened him; his buddy was playing. And with a chuckle admitted the guy was buff and good-looking. We both had a laugh over this. It's more beneficial for her to realize that she has the opportunity for her to outgrow who she was, than for you to warn everyone off.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

heartsbeating said:


> Me too... in our early days of dating, I had guys around me. I was somewhat flippant in attitude. We had the occasional heated discussion about this. I didn't actually go to anything but we were both trying to find our place and what it meant to be in the relationship. I had a lot to learn about myself (still so much more to go!), what that attention meant to me, and what it meant to receive his love. Ultimately what it meant to be vulnerable.
> 
> 
> When hubs and I had been dating a few months, there was a guy that had been declaring his admiration for me and wanted to meet. We didn't know each other. Hubs made it clear to me that he wasn't cool with me meeting him - which I didn't. The fact that it was even a conversation, was a testament to my immaturity at the time and still learning my own boundaries. However instead... hubs had been out with his buddy when they coincidentally bumped into said guy. Hubs' buddy mentioned to me that I wouldn't be hearing from him again. He laughed and insinuated they had scared him off. I wasn't sure what to make of this. They were both a bit coy about it all. Years later, hubs and I were talking about that time. I asked him to be straight with me about what happened with that guy. He said he made it known that I was spoken for but they hadn't threatened him; his buddy was playing. And with a chuckle admitted the guy was buff and good-looking. We both had a laugh over this. It's more beneficial for her to realize that she has the opportunity for her to outgrow who she was, than for you to warn everyone off.


And, unfortunately, there are some men who will not be deterred when a woman says that she is taken... this guy may have continued to press you if hubs and buddy hadn't intervened. Another reason why strong boundaries are SO important--the type of guy who doesn't mind pursuing a partnered woman are the types that will take advantage when a woman is intoxicated, or worse.


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

Ciccone, I'm curious. Did you buy her a wedding/engagment ring? If she wears it, wouldn't that be enough to give guys a clue?

Also, a lot of people are saying you're allowing her to date (or is it hangout) with these other guys? Are you? I didn't see anywhere you specifically stated you allowed it, seems you are upset about her wanting to, though.

Lastly, if her last BF cheated on her, how is she still innocent and unassuming?


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

JukeboxHero said:


> Ciccone, I'm curious. Did you buy her a wedding/engagment ring? If she wears it, wouldn't that be enough to give guys a clue?
> 
> Also, a lot of people are saying you're allowing her to date (or is it hangout) with these other guys? Are you? I didn't see anywhere you specifically stated you allowed it, seems you are upset about her wanting to, though.
> 
> Lastly, if her last BF cheated on her, how is she still innocent and unassuming?


nope. PUAs look for rings. married women dont talk and dont go all fatal attraction for him. its the challenge to unseat committed women that gets his rocks off.. from what i hear, its seriously easy.

OP needs to read MMSLP -- Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011 by Athol Kay. he needs to change things up. A LOT!

you see, OP, its the indoctrination of your upbringing versus your reality that's in conflict here.

you've been raised from birth to please the woman and place her on a pedestal. you have no role model to show you how to be a man. your entire life at home and even at school has been nothing but indoctrination.

now you have a conflict. go caveman and collect your property or sit there with your tail between your legs and suck it up. nothing in your upbringing showed you how to be a man.

your woman (all women) are programmed genetically to respond to her man. she IS responding to you. as a betaized doormat. a real man would never let this happen.

read MMSLP. change you. become balanced man. an alpha and beta balanced man. alpha is not an arsehole,btw... beta is not bad either. but a balance of the two, you will handle your woman with ease.

marriage is like dancing. lead, she will follow. continue as you are and she will be on auto-pilot. she is simply responding to you.

read the book. more important, comprehend the message. the book can be rough, but there is a message. read the book several times. you'll learn more with each pass.

ignore the book at your own peril. you will resist what you read. thats merely your betaized indoctrination. 

your wife will love you so much more after you get her off that pedestal and stop worshipping her. she will respect and respond to you.

wtf is up this past 60 years anyway. guys brought up all betaized and women not liking the result of their handiwork... tragically, too many single moms raising children. no woman can raise a boy and teach him to be a man. it takes a man. and a family. marriage - not whats been going on.

become a stable, confident, muscular/tone man. always in control of the marriage. she's giving you the sh!t test of a lifetime. easy to pass the test. if you ignore the book you'll fail her sh!t test. she'll eventually leave you.

nice thing is. you control it all. you just don't know it.


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## TAM2013 (Jul 15, 2013)

FeministInPink,

You just ain't met the right man yet and when you do, you'll drop the orbiters when you insist he drops his plates.

In the meantime, realise this is probably why you haven't connected with said man yet.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

TAM2013 said:


> FeministInPink,
> 
> You just ain't met the right man yet and when you do, you'll drop the orbiters when you insist he drops his plates.
> 
> In the meantime, realise this is probably why you haven't connected with said man yet.


Condescend much?

This isn't my thread, and it's not about me... my friends aren't orbiters, they're FRIENDS. And that's it, end of story. And there are, like 2 or 3 of them. And one of them is gay. It isn't like I have a harem. 

A man who tries to cut me out of my social circle and support network would be reviled on TAM as an emotional abuser. Is that what you're suggesting?  That I go and find myself another emotionally abusive husband? No thanks.

I'm not giving up my friends, but my future long-term partner WILL be my priority, and he will have no doubt about that. He won't need to insist that I cut off my friends to soothe his ego. 

OP, sorry for the hijack, but I really had to address that.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

lonelyhusband321 said:


> This is where guys nowadays are sort of handcuffed.
> 
> Pretty much ANY guy's reaction to that sort is to punch his lights out, but in these days and times what used to be "justifiable" is grounds for litigation....


Well, hopefully, the female in question is smart enough to steer clear, to keep her man out of that kind of trouble. I would avoid that kind of guy like a plague. But I also would have no problem putting him in his place if he persisted. Hell, I might punch him myself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

lonelyhusband321 said:


> The kind of woman men look for....their whole life!


I'm a rare bird. And I find that I encounter two types of men, as I'm looking to find my mate.There are the men who want to possess me, and cage me. And then there are the men who don't appreciate me, so they don't tend to me. I fly away from both. I've said before, and I'll say it again... it takes an exceptional man to get me to commit, but when I do, it's the real deal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

FeministInPink said:


> Condescend much?
> 
> This isn't my thread, and it's not about me... my friends aren't orbiters, they're FRIENDS. And that's it, end of story. And there are, like 2 or 3 of them. And one of them is gay. It isn't like I have a harem.
> 
> ...


Let me tell you right now, guys hang around for ONE reason. Repeat that in your head a 1000 times. No matter how much you want to believe otherwise.

And if not for you it's to latch on to your friends.

And guys know this. So if you like a guy and keep orbiters around we know the game and will react accordingly.

Trust me when I tell you that to us guys, if you keep them around, especially exes, you will sabatoge the relationship. From reading your posts, you want the single life and attention. Any guy that accepts your deal openly will be a player. 

Just giving you true blue guys perspective. Orbiters are hoping for something, always.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

jdawg2015 said:


> Let me tell you right now, guys hang around for ONE reason. Repeat that in your head a 1000 times. No matter how much you want to believe otherwise.
> 
> And if not for you it's to latch on to your friends.
> 
> ...


Sorry but I dont buy this crap.  Are you telling us that as a man, you are incapable of a platonic friendship with someone because they have a vagina?? If so, then WTH is the matter with you? Is our vag the only redeeming quality we possess?? I have had MANY male friends over the years who actually respected me as a person and were NOT trying to get into my pants by being my friend. How insulting...


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

lonelyhusband321 said:


> Again - what men look for their entire life.


Well, not all men, clearly, since jdawg2015 and TAM2013 think I'm a wh0re/affair waiting to happen 

ETA: And I must not have any self-control, either, because clearly all it takes for a woman to cheat is for a man to be in her mere presence. _Oh, look a man! He has a penis, and I have a vagina! Get me some of that! Let me take off all my clothes and let him have his way with me!_


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Ciccone said:


> My wife and I have been married for a little less than a year now. I guess this is where the whole thing about having a private little ceremony with family backfires on me, *because it really didn't become a public spectacle in any regard. Some friends on both sides, family, and the people at our office know, but without the massive wedding, the fancy photos, the save-the-date postcards, and the Facebook attention whoring,* we usually have to tell people that we're married. Reunite with an old friend? "Hey, so I got married last year!". That kind of stuff.
> 
> The problem I'm having is that I feel as if everyone in my wife's life feels at liberty to ask her out to things "as friends". She'll boo and hiss whenever I have reservations about it, and the subject itself has gotten heated. It's one thing to meet for a coffee or something, and it's another thing to be asked to be someone's wedding date, or to go to the town fair/concert with another man for an entire night. In some instances, I can assume the guy just does not know, and innocently asks. If you were to make an assessment on us on Facebook, for example, you'd think we're just casual friends. We're not "married on Facebook", nor do we constantly interact, post pictures, tag outings, and that kind of stuff. Other people, like the manager at her office, *do* know that she's married, and will still ask her out to things.
> 
> ...


Ok, what is your aversion to being public about being married and sharing some happy stuff with your friends online? :scratchhead: VERY weird. You dont have to gush like an idiot and go overboard, but put your damn status as married, if nothing else! Otherwise, your marriage looks shaky and fragile to someone looking to make moves on either one of you! Geez, post some pictures from a vacation, or make your profile pic one of the two of you together..make it LOOK like you are proud to be married to her! 

You are NOT out of line in your expectation that your wife not spend one on one time out with other men. You do need to keep some perspective though...as you mentioned, catching up with old friend Mikey from down the street over coffee is in an entirely different realm than dinner out with Andy from work who makes no secret about having a crush. 

Boundaries. You need them, you need to enforce them. Let her know that this is NOT okay with you. If she wants to behave like a single woman, then make her one.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

jdawg2015 said:


> Let me tell you right now, guys hang around for ONE reason. Repeat that in your head a 1000 times. No matter how much you want to believe otherwise.
> 
> And if not for you it's to latch on to your friends.
> 
> ...


Jdawg, you know NOTHING about me. You've read, what? Four? Five posts that I've written? Yeah, you can learn EVERYTHING about me from a handful of posts on one thread.

Believe it or not, there ARE men in the world who aren't of the cro-magnon persuasion, and who are capable of having platonic friendships with women, because, as 3xnocharm said, they see women as more than just a vagina. They see an actual person. I am sure, as the Louis CK bit goes, they've pictured what it would be like to sleep with those women, but they don't have any interest in actually doing it. 

My male friends have been carefully cultivated. I've had male "friends" before who made it known they were interested in something more, and when I say no, they've faded away. In one case, I had to cut out a "friend" who persisted. The ones I keep are platonic, pure and simple. There never has been, nor will there ever be, anything more than that. 

The only exes I've kept as friends are the two who came out as gay after we broke up, so clearly there is no threat there to any man I date. And I have no interest in maintaining a friendship with a man I broke up with, because they always hope that I'll change my mind and take them back. I've seen that in the past, and I'm not stupid enough to maintain those connections.

They are not after my female friends, either. I have a few mutual (and peripheral) female friends with all my male friends; they have no need to maintain a friendship with me if they are after one of my female friends.

And as for me liking the attention and the single life? Let me tell you something. I'm an introvert. I'm a homebody. I don't go out and party and drink all the time. I go out once, maybe twice a week, and I might do an activity on the weekend. When I go out, it's to see my friends and to keep up with them, or to go to a play or do karaoke. The rest of the time, I stay home. I read, I write, I play the piano or my guitar. Play the occasional video game if I'm in the mood. Watch films and travel shows. And when I have the time and the money, I like to travel and see new places. That's what I DO. I'm not interested in attention. I don't need it. I have enough personal interests to keep me entertained, and enough self-esteem to not need the attention. 

And... funny, but I don't recall this having ever been an issue with any guy I've dated in the past, or with my ex-husband. And I don't date players. (Well, there was that one guy, but he didn't know my "deal" until after we'd been out once or twice. Hmmm.) If you like, I can check with my last boyfriend and see if this was a problem for him... no wait, we talked about it, and it wasn't a problem for him, either. I did, of course, tell him whenever I was going to be out with one of my male friends, and exactly what we would be doing, because I respected him and didn't want there to be any secrets. Then again, he has a brain and had one or two platonic female friends of his own. Which also weren't a problem for me, because I trusted him and knew that if he wanted to hit that... he already would have.

I'm sorry that you've had such a BAD experience in your life that you automatically assume the worst of everyone. That's kind of a sad way to live.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

FeministInPink said:


> Jdawg, you know NOTHING about me. You've read, what? Four? Five posts that I've written? Yeah, you can learn EVERYTHING about me from a handful of posts on one thread.
> 
> Believe it or not, there ARE men in the world who aren't of the cro-magnon persuasion, and who are capable of having platonic friendships with women, because, as 3xnocharm said, they see women as more than just a vagina. They see an actual person. I am sure, as the Louis CK bit goes, they've pictured what it would be like to sleep with those women, but they don't have any interest in actually doing it.
> 
> ...


Sorry, but you're mistaken grossly in why guys remain friends with non family member females in the vast majority of cases.

Not bad experience. Just giving you a persepective that you can freely ignore. Keep the orbiters around at your own peril to every relationship you have. That you can take to the bank.


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## Lone Shadow (Aug 5, 2014)

OP, it reads as if she is playing you. If she isn't, it's only a matter of time.

My advice would be to get out now, before you end up having children involved, and don't look back. Then, take some personal time before you start dating again so you can fix your picker and establish some boundaries.


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## Lone Shadow (Aug 5, 2014)

jdawg2015 said:


> Sorry, but you're mistaken grossly in why guys remain friends with non family member females *in the vast majority of cases.*
> 
> Not bad experience. Just giving you a persepective that you can freely ignore. Keep the orbiters around at your own peril to every relationship you have. That you can take to the bank.


Bold part. There are exceptions. Those exceptions aren't few and far between either. 

Thing is, men friendzone women just as frequently as women friendzone men. I understand the concept behind plate theory, and if that's you, then that's you. It has never been me. When I am dating, I am dating 1 woman at a time. That said, I do have female orbiters, and female friends (non-orbiters).


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Lone Shadow said:


> Bold part. There are exceptions. Those exceptions aren't few and far between either.
> 
> Thing is, men friendzone women just as frequently as women friendzone men. I understand the concept behind plate theory, and if that's you, then that's you. It has never been me. When I am dating, I am dating 1 woman at a time. That said, I do have female orbiters, and female friends (non-orbiters).


The issue with orbiters and "friends" is that those friends can cross over a line very quickly with too much time and contact.

In fact, TAM practically exists solely because of this being such an issue.

I'd be very careful about being too confident in your ability to not cross a line.


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## Lone Shadow (Aug 5, 2014)

Orbiters are just that. And because of what they represent, there is never any 1 on 1 association with them. With a group, or not at all. 

If a friend extends an invite to something, and I'm dating someone at the time, I assume that the invite includes the woman I'm dating. If that invite specifically excludes my SO, I turn it down. To do otherwise is way too disrespectful. As highly as I value respect, I would never deliberately disrespect my SO.

If the invite does include my SO, and she chooses not to attend, she knows where I will be and with whom; she knows when I will be home, and she knows that I will be coming home sober.

Not one person among us can say that they never put themselves into positions where the opportunity to cross a line exists. The opportunity is there, every day. It's how you choose to conduct yourself in the face of that opportunity.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Lone Shadow said:


> Orbiters are just that. And because of what they represent, there is never any 1 on 1 association with them. With a group, or not at all.
> 
> If a friend extends an invite to something, and I'm dating someone at the time, I assume that the invite includes the woman I'm dating. If that invite specifically excludes my SO, I turn it down. To do otherwise is way too disrespectful. As highly as I value respect, I would never deliberately disrespect my SO.
> 
> ...


While I agree with most of your post, there is a razor's edge you walk.

I don't put myself into EASY situations. Big difference between going to dinner alone with a female vs walking down the street.
Just because your spouse knows about the other person doesn't make it any less risky in my opinion.


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## Lone Shadow (Aug 5, 2014)

Never said anything about dinner. That would be crossing the line. You are making incorrect assumptions, and I am not going to try changing your mind through those assumptions. I don't have the patience.

Having said that, I doubt that there is a user on this board who, having read through my story, would question my character.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Lone Shadow said:


> Never said anything about dinner. That would be crossing the line. You are making incorrect assumptions, and I am not going to try changing your mind through those assumptions. I don't have the patience.
> 
> Having said that, I doubt that there is a user on this board who, having read through my story, would question my character.


Not questioning your character. my man Just seen too many issues with marriages blowing up to take risk.

Perception is also an issue. Going out with female without my fiance in two would be a bridge too far for me and I have same boundary with my spouse. Only room for one guy/gal in a relationship for me.

In case of OP, he needs to man up big time.


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## TAM2013 (Jul 15, 2013)

You seem like a nice lady, FIP. Trying like me, to help the OP. But he's in this very position because so many women think "if he can't accept my male friends, he's not worthy of me". Actually, the opposite is true. Only chumps you'll grow to detest or players who'll screw you over will go for that. 

Women are never, ever completely upfront about the men they keep around them. And the sickest twist is, the ladies who insist on a "support group" are the first to spit their dummy right out when they get the same in reverse.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Every woman is different, and painting them all with the same brush of generalizations is unfair. There are exceptions to these "rules." That's the point that I'm trying to make here; it's damaging to be suspicious and assume that every woman is going to be dishonest and play their man.

In the OP's case, she's clearly not an exception. She's clearly out of line, and has no clear sense of boundaries.


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## Lone Shadow (Aug 5, 2014)

The major flaw that I see in saying "no opposite sex friends," is that for a lot of women, sexuality is fluid.

What do you say to a woman who has had long term relationships with both men and women in the past? No friends of either sex? Discuss.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Lone Shadow said:


> The major flaw that I see in saying "no opposite sex friends," is that for a lot of women, sexuality is fluid.
> 
> What do you say to a woman who has had long term relationships with both men and women in the past? No friends of either sex? Discuss.


For respect to OP, think that question should be it's own thread.


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## Lone Shadow (Aug 5, 2014)

I wasn't posing the question with expectations that it be answered. The question was asked as a means of showing how ridiculous it is to try and limit another person's social contacts.

I would never say "no opposite sex friends." My limitation would be "no _*new*_ opposite sex friends." Unless they were friends of _ours,_ and _we_ hung out with them _together._


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

No exes, regardless of gender. No date like socializing with OSF. Spouses should generally be present when with OSF, especially during social events. Pretty basic rules which set up good boundaries.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Lone Shadow said:


> I wasn't posing the question with expectations that it be answered. The question was asked as a means of showing how ridiculous it is to try and limit another person's social contacts.
> 
> I would never say "no opposite sex friends." My limitation would be "no _*new*_ opposite sex friends." Unless they were friends of _ours,_ and _we_ hung out with them _together._


Well there's a difference in how you look at it.

By setting a boundary with your spouse by agreeing to no 1:1 that is not limiting anything.

Your spouse either respects the boundary or not. If they decide to cross it, which they are free to do, then they know what's going to happen.

My personal experience with couples with lasting relationships is that they always go things together. In fact the majority of my friends are long term married. The tight couples it would be unthinkable to see one or the other out on the town with an opposite sex "friend".


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## Lone Shadow (Aug 5, 2014)

Jdawg, we're saying the same thing, more or less, in a slightly different dialect. Refer to my post at the top of the page. 

Planning a 1:1 outing is a no-go. If the invitation for the outing was originally for both of us to attend, and then for whatever reason one of us couldn't attend, I wouldn't expect the other to cancel the plans*.

*activity dependent


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Lone Shadow said:


> Jdawg, we're saying the same thing, more or less, in a slightly different dialect. Refer to my post at the top of the page.
> 
> Planning a 1:1 outing is a no-go. If the invitation for the outing was originally for both of us to attend, and then for whatever reason one of us couldn't attend, I wouldn't expect the other to cancel the plans*.
> 
> *activity dependent


Big difference in my case if I or her are not there, plans get cancelled. Simple as that.

The fact that you have to base things on the activity is a red flag to me. If it's so friendly then why should there be any bounds? Not being wise azz but shows how quickly the slipper slope begins.

And once you allow too much of the OSF, getting that genie back in the bottle would be huge issue.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Thor said:


> No exes, regardless of gender. No date like socializing with OSF. Spouses should generally be present when with OSF, especially during social events. Pretty basic rules which set up good boundaries.


Almost identical to what is enacted in my marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lone Shadow (Aug 5, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> Almost identical to what is enacted in my marriage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is what I was struggling to say. Trying to post at work, when not getting anywhere near enough sleep at home, makes me substantially less eloquent than normal.


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## TAM2013 (Jul 15, 2013)

Lone Shadow said:


> What do you say to a woman who has had long term relationships with both men and women in the past? No friends of either sex? Discuss.


You walk, mate. Agreed, not for this thread.

Thing is FIP, the 0P's wife is fast becoming the norm, not the exception.

So old OSF are OK, but new ones not. It's OK to go 1-1 if you both got an invite but one couldn't make it. It's OK if he's an ex but has now decided he's gay. OSF who's BI? Decided she's straight? Lunch date is fine but evening, no. Lunch date with alcohol? Soccer OK? Salsa NO?

Peeing on her is looks favourite, OP.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Lone Shadow said:


> This is what I was struggling to say. Trying to post at work, when not getting anywhere near enough sleep at home, makes me substantially less eloquent than normal.


Hahaha! Feel ya!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

TAM2013 said:


> You walk, mate. Agreed, not for this thread.
> 
> Thing is FIP, the 0P's wife is fast becoming the norm, not the exception.
> 
> ...


There are so many variables to this question, depending on the couple in question, which is why I don't think you can apply the same "rules" to every person/partner (whether that's the male partner or the female partner in the equation).

At the risk of getting myself in trouble here, this whole discussion also brings to mind the way some men view/treat women in our society. I'm NOT talking about the male partner here! Unless the male partner is possessive and controlling, he just wants to protect his relationship. I'm talking about the male orbiter--the man who wants to pursue the partnered female, and whom the male partner views as a threat to the relationship. The real problem, in theory, is the male orbiter, not the female partner; the female has made her choice of partner, and it's the male orbiter that doesn't respect her choice, and still makes an effort to pursue her, even though she's not available, and has made it clear to the world by marrying or committing to her partner. In fact, she HAS established boundaries by committing to her partner; it's the orbiter who keeps trying to violate those boundaries, because he doesn't view her as an individual, but rather than something he wants to possess. This strikes me as a problem.

This is theory, and is definitely NOT applicable to the OP's situation. I want to make that clear. The OP's wife clearly has not established clear boundaries with people outside the relationship, because she hasn't been public about her marriage. And that's a problem.

The OP's wife is becoming the norm. WHERE do y'all MEET these women? I don't know many women like that.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

When an orbiter is an ex, the danger goes up 1000x.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Ciccone said:


> So what should I do? Start a smothering campaign on Facebook to say that I'm married? Post more pictures? Tag myself everywhere? Have her get a tattoo of my face on her forearm? Pee on her? I'm out of ideas. Help!


Yes, brag about your marriage on FB. Yes, post pictures. Yes, tag yourself. As any married man would. 

Aside from that, reading No More Mr Nice Guy and Married Man Sex Life Primer, so you learn what it's like to be an alpha man. Who won't TOLERATE his wife being out with other men. Period. 

Who will say 'I can't control you, I can't keep you from spending time with other men, but what I can control is MY reaction to your doing so. Go out, lose your husband. Your choice.'


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Looks like OP bailed....


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## TAM2013 (Jul 15, 2013)

Read through your last post very carefully, FIP. You ARE one of these women.

Good luck.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

TAM2013 said:


> Read through your last post very carefully, FIP. You ARE one of these women.
> 
> Good luck.


Uh... no, I'm not. If I'm in a relationship, my partner is my primary social companion. I'm not going out and partying and drinking with other men--I'm not going out on "dates" with other men. I'm not making myself "available" to other potential partner. If I'm in a relationship, I'm not making new male friends. I'd rather be with my partner than go out for happy hour drinks with people from work. 

If I had a ticket for a concert, I would much rather go with my partner than a friend. If there's a movie I want to see, I would much rather go with my partner than a friend. If I'm hungry, I would much rather eat with my partner than a friend. If there's a museum exhibit I want to see, I would much rather go with my partner than a friend. If I want to take a vacation, I would much rather go with my partner than a friend.

You want to know about me? You want to know what kind of partner I am? I was married for 5+ yrs to a man who refused to do ANY of the above with me. I would ask him, countless times, to DO ANYTHING with me, because he was my husband, and I wanted to be with him. But he always refused. He would rather watch TV, play video games, and ignore me. He wouldn't touch me, and he certainly wouldn't have sex with me. 

Oh, but he loved going out drinking with his buddies and flirting with all kinds of women at work (he was a bar manager). 

Did I go out with other men? Did I seek attention from other men? Did I cheat on him? No on all counts. Because I was married. Because I established boundaries for myself early on, and I stuck to them. Because I wasn't going to do anything that disrespected my husband, despite the fact that all his behavior was incredibly disrespectful towards me.

If I went out, I went out on an evening he was working, so I wouldn't be "abandoning" him. If I went out, it was either alone (most of the time) or (occasionally) with female friends, never male friends. If I went out, and was approached by a man, I would show him my wedding ring and tell him to ****** off. If I went out, I didn't go to a club or a bar and party it up, I was going to public readings, museum galleries, plays/shows, or a movie, almost always alone. If I went out, I didn't go get drunk and make myself vulnerable, I was always sober.

You don't know jack sh!t about me or what kind of partner I am.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

hmmmm....

the obvious question has not been asked IMHO..

as eloquently as I can..

if the lady did not have a pvssy, she probably would not have any guys hanging out with her. beta orbiters or not.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Your wife going out with other men has to stop...NOW! She probably thinks she can have the best of both worlds now and you won't mind. If you keep this up she'll soon be cheating on you...I'm reasonable certain she is already. You're marriage depends on two things...your being able to confront her directly and tell her going out with other men IS NOT OK and has to stop and her being able to commit to doing this. Otherwise your marriage will fail quickly.


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## TAM2013 (Jul 15, 2013)

FIP, you've changed your stance since your first post in this thread.

It's a shame that in my experience, the majority of women will try to retain all sorts disguised as friends and give the ladies who would never try that sh!t (or the ones who've learnt the hard way) a bad name.


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## TAM2013 (Jul 15, 2013)

Forgot to add, if the woman makes it clear she's not interested, the men will not persue. Anything less from her and there's still hope for more.

Which brings us right back to square one. Exclude all OSF or watch the relationship fail.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

TAM2013 said:


> FIP, you've changed your stance since your first post in this thread.
> 
> It's a shame that in my experience, the majority of women will try to retain all sorts disguised as friends and give the ladies who would never try that sh!t (or the ones who've learnt the hard way) a bad name.


No, I didn't. Either my first post went over your head, or you read it with blinders on. My posts have been consistent.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Some women seem to like to keep beta orbiters around as a comforter. A beta orbiter is never a threat as the woman knows they'll never 'get any' She knows how to keep them at the edge of hopefulness and make use of them for whatever she wants.

These guys are not a threat to her, so she thinks she can keep the gaggle around, married or not.

FIP has lots of friends, but if ever crossed, I get the feeling she would nuke them in a NY second. She likes guys as they do have compatible body parts - and knows they wont get any.

I do wonder about the guys. She does not control what they may think about her. I do think she has super strong morals and will never cross boundaries. Her boundaries may differ from mine and yours but she is a strong lady and comfortable with her relationships.

OP is an example of a beta orbiter with a woman totally unlike FIP. OP needs to stop this crap immediately.

For him this has sh!t test written all over it.

FIP can be easily managed by her man. I know shes looking for the kind of guy who sees through crap and is decisive. (good luck in a culture full of betas...)

OP, read MMSLP. it is custom written just for you. Just don't to the guy thing and take it LITERALLY !!!!


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

1. No misunderstanding and the type of wedding you had has nothing to do with this. The problem I'm having is that I feel as if everyone in my wife's life feels at liberty to ask her out to things "as friends". She'll boo and hiss whenever I have reservations about it, and the subject itself has gotten heated. 

First, let's eliminate the claim she doesn't understand this is a problem. She does and says, I want to do what I want, dominate my husband and make him allow me to date other men and publicly embarrass him. 

2. It happens a lot, is abnormal, and virtually everyone on this board realizes this. 

It's one thing to meet for a coffee or something, and it's another thing to be asked to be someone's wedding date, or to go to the town fair/concert with another man for an entire night. 

3. Facebook lies say she is single. 

In some instances, I can assume the guy just does not know, and innocently asks. If you were to make an assessment on us on Facebook, for example, you'd think we're just casual friends. We're not "married on Facebook", nor do we constantly interact, post pictures, tag outings, and that kind of stuff. She explains I do not want people to know I'm married so I on my Facebook page, I lie and put that I am single so I can flirt with other men, (doing or considering doing more). 

4. Flirting with the few others who know she is married. 

Other people, like the manager at her office, do know that she's married, and will still ask her out to things. Because she likes to flirt and does not try to deter or frustrate that. 

5. Solutions 

A. Leave one night and pour some dirt on copies of your wedding pictures to reflect how she treats your marriage. 

B. Do you know where she goes with her new male "friends." Any way you could find a cute female friend or even family member and encounter her with her date. 

C. Directly confront her and stop being a doormat. 

D. Stop any sexual relations assuming that is one way she manipulates you. 

E. Do not have children unless you fix this dysfunctional marriage with a narcissistic, insecure woman whose abnormal behavior is due to a lack of interest in the marriage or being turned on by taunting various men (not just you, she loves playing with these other men).


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Bobby5000, good points. But regarding your solutions...



Bobby5000 said:


> 5. Solutions
> 
> A. Leave one night and pour some dirt on copies of your wedding pictures to reflect how she treats your marriage.
> 
> ...


Three (A, B, D) of these are passive-aggressive and manipulative, and won't get the desired effect. They'll just create a vicious cycle of bad behavior and continued manipulation on both sides, escalating the situation and making it worse, not better.

E is excellent advice and I strongly second it, but C is the only that could possibly get through to the OP's wife. If that doesn't work, he would probably be better off leaving this marriage.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

she demands validation from many men


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

Let me respectfully disagree Feminist in Pink. First, he confronted her and tried the direct approach and did not work as she trivialized his concerns. Placing some type of deterrent and not rewarding bad behavior is sound and sensible. As an analogy, imagine a husband comes home 10 at night does not call, common sense would say a wife does not make dinner and may stop laundry even if it is perceived as passive aggressive. 

This man has significant problems but before getting divorced he needs to try the intermediate step of trying to punish not reward the behavior. As to escalation, he's better off having off escalate this into a large fight and ventilate any problems then maintaining the dysfunctional status quo. 

Originally Posted by Bobby5000 View Post 
5. Solutions 

A. Leave one night and pour some dirt on copies of your wedding pictures to reflect how she treats your marriage. 

B. Do you know where she goes with her new male "friends." Any way you could find a cute female friend or even family member and encounter her with her date. 

C. Directly confront her and stop being a doormat. 

D. Stop any sexual relations assuming that is one way she manipulates you. 

E. Do not have children unless you fix this dysfunctional marriage with a narcissistic, insecure woman whose abnormal behavior is due to a lack of interest in the marriage or being turned on by taunting various men (not just you, she loves playing with these other men). 

Three (A, B, D) of these are passive-aggressive and manipulative, and won't get the desired effect. They'll just create a vicious cycle of bad behavior and continued manipulation on both sides, escalating the situation and making it worse, not better.


E is excellent advice and I strongly second it, but C is the only that could possibly get through to the OP's wife. If that doesn't work, he would probably be better off leaving this marriage.


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## maritalloneliness (Mar 18, 2015)

If she took her vows seriously she would be proud to advertise that she's married. 
Ask her how she would feel if you accepted a date from another female. I know you love her and want to protect her but no matter how sheltered she grew up she knows it's wrong. It is extremely disrespectful of her to accept invitations from other men.


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

Basic choices 

1. Get divorced and leave this severely dysfunctional marriage. 

2. Let her crap all over you, get turned on by treating you like garbage, then divorce you a few years later, and grab your money in addition to humiliating you. 

Note, don't confuse this garbage with what goes on in good and happy marriages. I told my wife her doctor was very good looking and she laughed and agreed and both of us knew nothing was going to happen. Your wife has this cruel streak getting turning on by humiliating you on a regular basis and sadly you need to face this.


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