# I don't want a sexless marriage



## Dragonflie (Jun 10, 2016)

I'm new here so bear with me! Apologies, this is going to be a long post.
So I have been married for 3 years, I've been with him for 8 years. 
He came into my life at possibly the hardest time in my life, when my mother was diagnosed with cancer. She died when we were only 2 months into our relationship. He helped me so much throughout the ordeal, and I don't know what I would have done without him. 
I was sexually switched off for the first 3 years of our relationship, I gave in to sex mainly to keep him happy but never orgasmed. He tried his best to understand, but it was all down to me. 
I grew to resent him over the years, as I found him to be a lazy man. 6 months into the relationship he was let go from his job and he made all the excuses to not find work. I worked full time. He NEVER cleaned the house. On my days off I'd be wasting the day cleaning. He wanted sex alot, i didn't. We'd have sex once a month, if we're lucky. I buried my unhappiness and hardly ever argued about these things. I still loved him, but we both never liked confrontation and chose to ignore. He was happy with how things were. 
He wanted kids right after the wedding, and I was lucky to wake up to the fact that if we did, it was just going to me dealing with extra commitments. I was pursuing a separate career to my work, and kids definitely was going to stop me from pursuing it. 
Then my life changed last year. I went out of the country for something to do with my dream job and I met a man there. Nothing happened but we definitely connected like I never experienced before. It wasnt just a physical attraction, its like we knew each other already. He woke me up sexually without even doing anything. We spoke about it afterwards but brushed it off. But then we stayed in touch and we grew closer. I fell in love with him and after a few months I made the decision to be with him and be happy. My only regret is that I slept with him (months after) before fully ending my marriage. In my head the marriage was over, I was done. But the sex was like nothing I ever experienced. 
I ended things, stayed with a friend. It was pointed out to me that the other man was an escape more than anything, and that if I communicated with my husband more then things would change. So then I made the decision to make my marriage work. 
It has now been a year and a half since, and I had felt the lowest of the low. He forgave me for the other guy, but I was stricken with guilt. We have not had sex in 6 months, and it is not because I don't want to, I have discovered that I am a sexual person, I just don't feel sexual with him. He has changed since, he's working, he cleans, he's chosen to not make sexual advances towards me until I feel ready, but I just don't feel it with him. Even when we kiss, we don't connect, I feel myself pulling away because I get frustrated with how differently we kiss. It's not technique that's the problem, it's the passion behind it. 
I honestly don't know what else he can do to change how I feel, or what I can do to change how I feel.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Have you ever felt physically attracted to your H? 

I believe physical attraction is something that is either there or it's not. If you've never been chemically, physically, attracted to your H, you're likely to never feel that attraction to him. Can you live like this for the rest of your life? If not, you need to end the marriage and move on to a romantic partner that you are actually physically attracted to.


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## Dragonflie (Jun 10, 2016)

In the beginning, we were close, we spoke on the phone for hours on end, spend alot of time together, and all of our friends said it was only a matter of time till we started dating. 
In some aspects I'm physically attracted to him, but I just don't know if I'm sexually attracted to him. I know this sounds shallow, but his weight fluctuates alot and to me it represents his laziness. But i know his weight can fluctuate because of my lack of desire for sex. It's a vicious circle.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Be honest with your H. Tell him you need him to be more fit and get his weight down. Tell him that you need him to address your needs so that you can be there for him sexually. If there is something he can do to make sex more pleasurable for you, tell him. This is not the time to protect his ego. You are not keeping him (or you) "safe" by hiding the truth. You are just putting off the day when the truth comes out. Which will only make the revelation more painful for both of you. Time to put on your big girl panties and be open with your husband.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Since you don't have kids together yet, I think your marriage is done and it's time to make a clean break. Your husband was a crutch. He came into your life at a very low point and so you bonded with him. But enough time passed and your grief lifted. No longer acute, but still a little sad meant that the frustrations in life were now serious impediments to your happiness. 

Good for you for holding to your common sense and not starting a family and following your career path. Meeting that other man was your wake up call. Now you know it is possible to feel something strong enough that your whole body reacts.

It's just not going to work, no matter what you both do. It's time.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Dragonflie said:


> I honestly don't know what else he can do to change how I feel, or what I can do to change how I feel.


I asked you this same question in my other thread but never realized you had your own thread going. Probably best to keep things here. 

In my other thread you admitted you still think about the other man when sexually self exploring. You shared the fact that you do not fantasize about your husband but you know he fantasizes about you.

When you get home from work, does your husband respect your personal space? Is what you do with your personal space something that makes you happy and he enjoys learning about it?

Badsanta


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> It's just not going to work, no matter what you both do. It's time.


 @Anon Pink the other guy was likely an "escape" which was what she needed at that moment. If she wants to work on things, and her husband loves her and is starting to try, three years of marriage is worth hanging in there for a little longer. If for any other reason to help build problem solving skills. 

After three years of marriage I was without a job, not really going anywhere in life, and having tough moments from keeping my wife from being depressed all the time. 

Over 20 years later we are going strong! It is also making it through the tough and ugly moments together that built the strength in our marriage to deal with the nonstop mess that life throws at us as a loving team. 

Badsanta


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Dragonflie said:


> In the beginning, we were close, we spoke on the phone for hours on end, spend alot of time together, and all of our friends said it was only a matter of time till we started dating.
> In some aspects I'm physically attracted to him, *but I just don't know if I'm sexually attracted to him. *I know this sounds shallow, but his weight fluctuates alot and to me it represents his laziness. But i know his weight can fluctuate because of my lack of desire for sex. It's a vicious circle.


Just be "dangerously secretive" with him, and buy your husband the same cologne that your "other man" would wear. Put some on him and ask him to tie you up and blindfold you! Tell him to keep his mouth shut and do exactly as you instruct him to!

That ought to get a spark or two flying!

Then once you start experiencing pleasure again with your husband and learn how to be a bit kinky to get what you need, hopefully you two will experience some sexual healing! The "other man" will then become your confident ability to harness your husband's sexual energy and everything will merge into one.

:grin2:

Badsanta


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

@badsanta,

I think you are not wrong. Yes if they both worked really really hard it could work. But, even if mr chemistry guy was an aberration what it showed OP was that butterflies exist and if the first 3 years were without butterflies, when that is the time they absolutely should be there, it is unlikely butterflies will ever exist.


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## Dragonflie (Jun 10, 2016)

Hi!

Thank you all for your advice!!!

So we had a long talk last night and I voiced my concerns, my worry on the worst case scenario that my feelings are not going to change and that I will not put both of us through a sexless marriage because we both don't want that. 

He pointed out that he is well aware that the worst case scenario could happen, he is just trying to focus on the positives and the changes that we have made already, and like everything else, it didn't change overnight. 

We both agreed that we want to be absolutely sure we've tried everything to change things before giving up. Take action and at least try to have sex again, to see if feelings come back.

The last thing I want to do is run away, like last time. I don't want to leave with doubts on whether I tried everything in my power to make it work.

At the same time, i really don't want to stay in a marriage that doesn't satisfy both our needs.


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## Dragonflie (Jun 10, 2016)

The thing that breaks my heart most is, I know BOTH men love me unconditionally.

A few weeks ago the other man and I spoke on the phone for the first time since everything happened. We both didn't think much of it, talked about how happy we were for each other etc. (Bullsh*t!! Haha!!) 

Then it hit him that he was still not over me. He told me that he will always love me and reckons he won't ever love anyone the same way.

My H on the other hand, when I left him last year, he told me then and there that he won't ever feel the same for anyone else. That I am the one for him.

In a way, I feel like i don't deserve TWO men in my life that love me that way.

But I know that my H is my first priority, and I need to focus on my feelings for him, the other guy is only a focus for IF things don't work out in my marriage.


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## Dragonflie (Jun 10, 2016)

badsanta said:


> When you get home from work, does your husband respect your personal space? Is what you do with your personal space something that makes you happy and he enjoys learning about it?
> 
> Badsanta


He used to pretty much "grope" me at any chance he got, and I know it was because it was ALL he got. 

So I told him that I didn't like when he did it because when we obviously have sexual problems, random groping only turns me off more. I said to at least hold off on groping like that until our sex life is existing again. So he left me with my personal space. 

He supports me with whatever I do in my life, even if there's negatives, eg. Started smoking last year, and cares about me and loves me unconditionally, which in a way makes me feel like a hypocrite for having doubts.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Dragonflie said:


> He used to pretty much "grope" me at any chance he got, and I know it was because it was ALL he got.
> 
> So I told him that I didn't like when he did it because when we obviously have sexual problems, random groping only turns me off more. I said to at least hold off on groping like that until our sex life is existing again. So he left me with my personal space.
> 
> He supports me with whatever I do in my life, even if there's negatives, eg. Started smoking last year, and cares about me and loves me unconditionally, which in a way makes me feel like a hypocrite for having doubts.


sorry, but you are doing a disservice to him... from what you say, it's clear it's never going to work... you are still in love with the other man. Just let your husband free so he can find a woman who really loves him and he can be happy with... I don't really understand why you are doing all this, actually I do and I think it's a selfish reason... don't prolong the inevitable...


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## Dragonflie (Jun 10, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> sorry, but you are doing a disservice to him... from what you say, it's clear it's never going to work... you are still in love with the other man. Just let your husband free so he can find a woman who really loves him and he can be happy with... I don't really understand why you are doing all this, actually I do and I think it's a selfish reason... don't prolong the inevitable...


In one way, I understand what you're saying. But its not as black and white.

In one way, I wonder if it's a case that I'll never get over the other man, as I've experienced things with him I never experienced. But I can look at it as times were never easy for me and my H, and there were no issues for me and the other man. 
I could be just fixated on the idea that it was like a clean slate with the other man.

I made it clear to him last night that it wouldn't be fair on him if I continue in a marriage that I feel is not going to work, and if my feelings are not going to change I will not put him through that. 

I don't want to leave unless I'm 100% sure on whether I'm still just getting over the events that happened, or if it's a case that it is just not going to work.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

The other guy doesn't matter. He's a distraction. You're not into your husband.

_Period._

You deserve the following...

1) A partner so cherished that you'd never cheat on him

2) A partner that cherishes you so much that he'd never cheat on you

...and your husband deserves the same.

Because of the former, he's not that person for you; because of the latter, you're not that person for him.

So get off your perverse power trip and set both of yourselves free to pursue that person for each of you.

Divorce.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

Dragonflie said:


> The thing that breaks my heart most is, I know BOTH men love me unconditionally.
> 
> A few weeks ago the other man and I spoke on the phone for the first time since everything happened. We both didn't think much of it, talked about how happy we were for each other etc. (Bullsh*t!! Haha!!)
> 
> ...


OP,
How can you possibly expect things to work out with your H if you have mystery man waiting in the wings? You will never be able to commit 100% to your marriage when X% is focused on mystery man.

You are very fortunate that your H cares for you so much and you really do not know, with certainty, how mystery man will feel 3, 4, 5 years down the road and you will not until you go down that road. And as long as you believe that mystery man will have passion for you forever, true or not, you cannot look at your H as #1.

Some people only see by experience and I do not believe that you can truly R with your H until you "try out" mystery man for a time. Perhaps a few years from now when you and mystery man have kids and you discover that he is cheating on you, as he did with you, a married woman, then you may wish for your H back but he will most probably have moved on to someone who truly appreciates the qualities he brings to the table. Good luck.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Dragonflie said:


> The thing that breaks my heart most is, I know BOTH men love me unconditionally.


This is likely what you are experiencing from your emotional point of view.

HUSBAND: Loves you only because he does not want to loose you.
OTHER MAN: Loves you because he can't have you.

One seems hot and the other is not. The men on the other hand are experiencing:

HUSBAND: Realizes he has lost you and is trying hard to find you.
OTHER MAN: Loves you only because he does not want to loose you.

The other man just wants more hot sex and to let you use him to "rebound" some more as a sexual escape. Tell him a lie that your husband got you pregnant, but you want to run to him. Tell him that it is a complicated pregnancy and the doctors advise against sex. Ask him if he will support you during this and be a father to this child. THEN you will get you answer that this other man does NOT love you unconditionally. 

Your husband meanwhile has forgiven you for forsaking the marriage. So his love does seem rather unconditional.

Now onto how to make sex hot, steamy, intense, and passionate.... This will involve making you husband rather unstable in the bedroom in a playful way. ....

Badsanta


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Dragonflie said:


> In one way, I understand what you're saying. But its not as black and white.
> 
> In one way, I wonder if it's a case that I'll never get over the other man, as I've experienced things with him I never experienced. But I can look at it as times were never easy for me and my H, and there were no issues for me and the other man.
> I could be just fixated on the idea that it was like a clean slate with the other man.
> ...


I suppose you owe it to your husband to give it a go - and I understand that - but it looks grim to me...


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Dragonflie said:


> The thing that breaks my heart most is, *I know BOTH men love me unconditionally.
> *
> A few weeks ago the *other man and I spoke on the phone for the first time since everything happened. We both didn't think much of it, talked about how happy we were for each other etc. (Bullsh*t!! Haha!!)
> 
> ...


You know this guy loves you unconditionally because he said so? This guy is dying for more of that hot sex you 2 shared. We men will say anything to keep that going. Your husband on the other had took your cheating @ss back. THAT is unconditional.

Your marriage doesn't have a chance if you're keeping this guy around as a back up. As it is you sexual attachment with your husband was weak and was torn apart with you jumping into bed with new guy. 

Of course new guy sex is hot. This new guy hasn't dried your tears or carried you when your life came apart. Your relationship with your husband was overly emotional due to the circumstances with your mom. You have your husband like a emotional tampon. This new guy doesn't have that disadvantage. He's fun guy you met while traveling. 

You can develop a passionate marriage with your husband but it will require him upping his game and you learning to honor your marriage. Having secret phone calls or texting lover boy will ensure your marriage goes no where. 

You should encourage your husband to work on himself. (gym, clothes, hairstyle, hygiene, ETC) I recommend you buy him the "MMSL primer." A guide for men on being better husbands. I also recommend you read "Not just friends." 

If being a faithful wife is too much, and your feel like TAMer that said you no longer need him and should move on, then just tear off the band-aid. Don't drag your husband through months of pain while you tell your husband you're working on marriage while sneaking around talking or maybe more with Mr HaveSexWithMarriedWoman.


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## Dragonflie (Jun 10, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> The other guy doesn't matter. He's a distraction. You're not into your husband.
> 
> _Period._
> 
> ...


I am aware of the reasonings why I'm attracted to the other guy. That is exactly what he is. A distraction. I can try and justify it, but I do think about after the "honeymoon" period with him, would I love him? Or would it just be great sex? 

Before I met the other man, I knew I deserved better, but I chose to settle, thinking this is just how things are and I have to accept it because we loved each other. But then it grew to resentment. He didn't see the problems because I rarely confronted him on them.

And now, the tables have turned, and i know he deserves better right now than what he's getting from me. I can't hang on to the past anymore and I need to focus on whether or not I can get past the past, and how I currently feel.


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## Dragonflie (Jun 10, 2016)

NoChoice said:


> OP,
> How can you possibly expect things to work out with your H if you have mystery man waiting in the wings? You will never be able to commit 100% to your marriage when X% is focused on mystery man.
> 
> You are very fortunate that your H cares for you so much and you really do not know, with certainty, how mystery man will feel 3, 4, 5 years down the road and you will not until you go down that road. And as long as you believe that mystery man will have passion for you forever, true or not, you cannot look at your H as #1.
> ...


Believe it or not, I agree with you 100%. 
It is not fair on my H if I am talking to the other man behind his back. 

When we spoke on the phone, I told my H when I saw him later. I told him I didn't want to hide anything from him, and at that point, I told myself it was closure. To know that he was ok, and he moved on. It did hurt my H, but he was glad he told me and just hoped that it helped me get some closure.

But then he told me after he still loved me, and it made things tougher again. I told him my main focus is on figuring out if my marriage is going to work. That it is not fair on me, him or my H to be talking like this and that I need to focus on my H.

I am very well aware too, that the other man could be all talk and get sick of me after the excitement wears off, and I am not throwing away a marriage that could be fixed.


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## Dragonflie (Jun 10, 2016)

badsanta said:


> This is likely what you are experiencing from your emotional point of view.
> 
> HUSBAND: Loves you only because he does not want to loose you.
> OTHER MAN: Loves you because he can't have you.
> ...


I know already what the other man's answer would be on me having a kid already. I suppose in that way we can agree that his love is not as 100% unconditional as he claims.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Dragonflie said:


> I know already what the other man's answer would be on me having a kid already. I suppose in that way we can agree that his love is not as 100% unconditional as he claims.


If we are going to make all these assumptions, what will happen if you told hubby OM planted a seed in you? Would he still want to stay with you and reconcile?

Unconditional love after infidelity is a lie. Your husband wants to bury the affair in the sand together with his head. It will come out in the wash!

You think he is OK with your continued contact with OM after he forgave you the first time and is working really hard to fix his issues?

What have you done to fix YOUR issues? You are the cheater, you should be the one carrying the heaviest load, but you obviously are not. 

You have it backwards. Your marriage is plan B, your fantasy love is Plan A. You just don't want to make it look like you didn't give your marriage an honest try. You don't want to look like the bad guy.

Well, you are half A$$ working on the marriage and you are paying lip service to reconciliation by continuing contact with OM.

Resentment will now build on your husband. Your marriage will not survive and thrive! He may want to trust you by rug sweeping your affair, but just like you resented him and saw him as lazy and unattractive, he will do the same.

He will see you as sleazy and easy just not with him as you still don't want much sex with him. Very hard to fix this mess...I would say virtually impossible at this point.

JMNSHO here.


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## Unicus (Jun 2, 2016)

T.H.E.R.A.P.Y. Get this NOW. For yourself.

There's a lot there....some of it related to H's behavior, some of it your life experiences. Unless and until you sort that out with a pro, it's unlikely things will change.

Spending time here won't get you the answers you need.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Bibi1031 said:


> You don't want to look like the bad guy.


How many walk-aways always seem to get hung up on this... this should be a check and balance measure of honesty.
@Bibi1031, you have a very wise JMNSHO, your perspective here should be a checklist for the OP's counseling to come if she humbles herself.


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

Man your poor husband, do the guy a favor and divorce him please, you're not doing him any favors subjecting him to months and years of emotional abuse. Once you're out of his life he'll likely be much better, you're likely the root cause of his depression which led to the weight gain, the problems with work, not able to clean and help out, he's likely severely depressed due to being married to you and how you treat him. Noting like a wife who cuts off sex completely because you gained weight then starts banging someone else. Yeah i wonder why he's not a ball of energy and happiness at home.

So stop being selfish, file for divorce and let the guy find someone who is a better fit for him, I bet the weight comes right off and whatever black cloud he's living under does as well.


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## Dragonflie (Jun 10, 2016)

knobcreek said:


> Man your poor husband, do the guy a favor and divorce him please, you're not doing him any favors subjecting him to months and years of emotional abuse. Once you're out of his life he'll likely be much better, you're likely the root cause of his depression which led to the weight gain, the problems with work, not able to clean and help out, he's likely severely depressed due to being married to you and how you treat him. Noting like a wife who cuts off sex completely because you gained weight then starts banging someone else. Yeah i wonder why he's not a ball of energy and happiness at home.
> 
> So stop being selfish, file for divorce and let the guy find someone who is a better fit for him, I bet the weight comes right off and whatever black cloud he's living under does as well.


Wow. Things are getting pretty heated on this thread.

It makes me sad to be pointed out as the main cause of him not cleaning or working etc. I lost my mother and I was just out of school and went to full time work right after, didn't bother with college and focused on trying to get through my loss. My husband did help me through all of that. 
But he did settle on me being the money maker, spent his days having friends over in the house playing video games for the day, didn't clean up after himself to a serious extent. I had to make up paying bills for his side a few times due to his recklessness with money.
I was dealing with my mother's loss too much to even argue, I was just grateful to have him by my side through one of the hardest times in my life. 
And he wasnt the only one that gained weight. I did too. 

And I want to point out, NOTHING justifies what happened with the other man. Whatever was going on with the marriage, it should not have happened. And the fact that I didn't get over him only makes me feel worse, and it should. 

I just need to figure out whether my lack of sexual feelings right now are due to the guilt of everything that happened and that it will take time to work pas it, or if it's just that it is over.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

How do you think you'd react if your husband sat down w/ you over dinner later today and told you that he wanted a divorce?


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

Dragonflie said:


> Wow. Things are getting pretty heated on this thread.
> 
> It makes me sad to be pointed out as the main cause of him not cleaning or working etc. I lost my mother and I was just out of school and went to full time work right after, didn't bother with college and focused on trying to get through my loss. My husband did help me through all of that.
> But he did settle on me being the money maker, spent his days having friends over in the house playing video games for the day, didn't clean up after himself to a serious extent. I had to make up paying bills for his side a few times due to his recklessness with money.
> ...


You're still having an affair, you're still in contact with the OM right? You're not wired to love two men at once so this guy has replaced your husband, and you've moved your husband to plan B status, it's incredibly selfish and cruel. He's likely too broken to move on himself, and you're too selfish to do what needs to be done. You have OM validating you, giving you those nice new relationship hormones, and husband at home giving you stability and not rocking the boat. 

Sorry I won't blow smoke up your ass, what you're doing is really low.


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## Dragonflie (Jun 10, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> How do you think you'd react if your husband sat down w/ you over dinner later today and told you that he wanted a divorce?


I honestly am not sure. 

In one way, I wouldn't be surprised with everything that has happened. We've dealt with a lot of baggage since the beginning really, and I felt we never had that honeymoon period in our relationship with the unfortunate circumstances.

It would make me sad to think that after everything, we couldn't work things out. 

And even though for a long time we were both to blame, I know towards the end that I would only have myself to blame.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Bibi1031 said:


> You think he is OK with your continued contact with OM after he forgave you the first time and is working really hard to fix his issues?
> 
> *What have you done to fix YOUR issues?* You are the cheater, *you should be the one carrying the heaviest load, but you obviously are not. *
> 
> ...


So true. She's got him fighting for marriage while she goes through motions of R, expecting her BH to do the heavy lifting, all the while keeping her emotional juices going for lover boy. 

With the amount of threads we TAMers read not only here but LS & SI, we develop an ability to see right through the bull. From my vantage point, OP is seriously short timing it. 

You know when you find a new job and give your 2 week notice. The last few days you're like dying to get out of there.
That's the vibe I'm getting from OP. She's put her husband on notice and has mentally accepted offer from new guy.



knobcreek said:


> Man your poor husband, do the guy a favor and divorce him please, you're not doing him any favors subjecting him to months and years of emotional abuse. Once you're out of his life he'll likely be much better, you're likely the root cause of his depression which led to the weight gain, the problems with work, not able to clean and help out, he's likely severely depressed due to being married to you and how you treat him. *Nothing like a wife who cuts off sex completely because you gained weight then starts banging someone else. Yeah i wonder why he's not a ball of energy and happiness at home.*
> 
> So stop being selfish, file for divorce and let the guy find someone who is a better fit for him, I bet the weight comes right off and whatever black cloud he's living under does as well.


The same way she thinks her husband is holding her back from sexual nirvana, I imagine that after grieving the destruction of the marriage and building himself back up, he'll kick himself for wasting years with a woman who trickled out, cold duty sex for years.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

knobcreek said:


> *You're still having an affair, you're still in contact with the OM right?* You're not wired to love two men at once so this guy has replaced your husband, and you've moved your husband to plan B status, it's incredibly selfish and cruel. He's likely too broken to move on himself, and you're too selfish to do what needs to be done. You have OM validating you, giving you those nice new relationship hormones, and husband at home giving you stability and not rocking the boat.
> 
> Sorry I won't blow smoke up your ass, what you're doing is really low.


This is correct, by the way.

For as long as there is _any_ contact whatsoever between yourself and OM, the affair is functionally still on.

You don't extinguish a fire by passively walking away from it on a windy day, hoping that the last few embers will somehow manage to snuff out on their own -- you smother it, stomp on it, and then drown it w/ water.

If you feel that he's not doing enough to help you to "get there" w/ respect to your reconciliation, then you've got to tell him.

At the same time, though, you've got to cut the cord w/ OM -- immediately and forever -- and give 111.11 % of yourself to your husband and your marriage.

Until you do that, you're not giving your husband a fair shake.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Dragonflie said:


> And I want to point out, NOTHING justifies what happened with the other man. Whatever was going on with the marriage, it should not have happened. And the fact that I didn't get over him only makes me feel worse, and it should.


That said, what do you think your steps are to correct this and maintain your integrity?

You have had lot's of feedback, some harsh, as you digest it I am sure you have some thoughts on what you want to do. Right or wrong, where are your thoughts right now?

It cannot be lofty, your vision must be attainable to succeed, or it will fail miserably as it drags things out with additional poor choices.

Put self aside... if you truly have compassion for your husband and you know him being with you is not the best for him because you cannot give, then you owe it to you both to be honest and end with as much firm kindness as you can offer.

You may find forgiveness from you both in time...


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Dragonflie said:


> I honestly am not sure.
> 
> In one way, I wouldn't be surprised with everything that has happened. We've dealt with a lot of baggage since the beginning really, and I felt we never had that honeymoon period in our relationship with the unfortunate circumstances.
> 
> ...


Stop being a passive weenie. (I'd say the same to your husband, by the way.)

So you don't want to dump your husband because he's "not a bad guy".

That's understandable. Flawed, but understandable.

Still, you're not exactly doing him any favors by sticking around and doling out precisely zero sex (which _both_ of you need if you're going to re-kickstart natural bonding processes) while pining away for a d**chebag that knowingly entered into a relationship w/ a married woman.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

OP, you found your husband because he was there for you in a family crisis. You found this new guy because he was there for you in a personal crisis (your dysfunctional marriage). See the pattern here?

You're going through life looking for men to white-knight you, and then you find out that there's an actual human being under the shiny armor.

Divorce, get yourself into counseling, and don't even consider dating again until your life is on solid footing and you don't NEED anyone to rescue you.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Dragonflie said:


> *Wow. Things are getting pretty heated on this thread.*
> 
> It's a very heated subject. You don't yet see the extent of the damage your transgression has caused. Hence you get hurt with the 2x4s being headed towards your head. :smile2:
> 
> ...


You are the only one that holds the truth in this card. I have my thoughts, but they are not the ones that count in YOUR life.

I only hope that your husband wakes up and smells the coffee even if his head is buried so damn deep...


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Fozzy said:


> OP, you found your husband because he was there for you in a family crisis. You found this new guy because he was there for you in a personal crisis (your dysfunctional marriage). See the pattern here?
> 
> You're going through life looking for men to white-knight you, and then you find out that there's an actual human being under the shiny armor.
> 
> Divorce, get yourself into counseling, and don't even consider dating again until your life is on solid footing and you don't NEED anyone to rescue you.


And Fozzy Bear drops the mic.










(I know... seemingly random image, but my Google search for "fozzy bear mic drop" yielded some pretty unstellar results.)


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## Unicus (Jun 2, 2016)

Dragonflie said:


> I just need to figure out whether my lack of sexual feelings right now are due to the guilt of everything that happened and that it will take time to work pas it, or if it's just that it is over.


I still think you're wasting your time here, you need to be in therapy to sort this out. 

But to answer the only question out of all of this drama that you have, no, your lack of sexual feeling is not due to the guilt, It's probably not that simple or easy. 

Your marriage has been bad for a long time, which creates bad feelings which kills sexual drive. Sure, having an affair and then contritely regretting it can interfere, but cause it? Probably not.

You've been thru a lot and have a lot of unresolved intense emotions, you really need to get to the bottom of all that before making any really big decision about your marriage. I'm hearing a lot of well intentioned advice here, but the best advice is to take the time to finally address all your own emotions with a pro and then use that awareness or insight to make an more informed decision about your marriage.


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## Dragonflie (Jun 10, 2016)

I'll be honest with you guys, the replies have been intense. 

About an hour ago, I completely broke down to my husband. I apologised for the hell I've been putting him through, and on how I've felt so selfish for such a long time. I talked about how I feel that I don't deserve his love after what I did and on how I've behaved since. I talked about how before both of us were to blame, but now it is all me. I talked about my never ending guilt, not only on what happened, but also on the fact that I'm still not fully over the OM. 

My husband listened, hugged me, comforted me. He then proceeded to say that I need to move on from the past and fully focus on now. And if things don't work out, then they don't. But we won't know until we put all of our effort in. 

He said that more than anything he wants me to be happy, and if it's not with him then that's that. But he believes that we can make it work. It's just going to take more mending.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Did you also tell him that you've been in contact w/ OM?


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

I agree with Gus, you have to tell him where you have fully ended it and contact no more.

There is forgiveness already in place in the honesty of your husband's heart... do not squander it.


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## Dragonflie (Jun 10, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> Did you also tell him that you've been in contact w/ OM?


Yes I did. 

Long story short, he said that it hurt but he knows the OM is like an escape from reality, and we both agreed that if we are to make this work, that it can't be happening anymore.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Dragonflie said:


> Yes I did.
> 
> Long story short, he said that it hurt but he knows the OM is like an escape from reality, and we both agreed that if we are to make this work, that it can't be happening anymore.


That's good.

If your marriage is going to work, you need to do all the things that will allow it to work.

With that in mind, you need to change your phone number(s), e-mail addresses, social media accounts, etc so that OM is unable to contact _you_.

And no last phone call, e-mail, FB message, etc.

Drown the fire.


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## Dragonflie (Jun 10, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> Dragonflie said:
> 
> 
> > Yes I did.
> ...


You're right.

Thank you everyone for taking the time to give me advice. 

I felt like any advice I got from close friends etc were tip toeing around things, being general about it. 

Some of the advice was harsh yes, but at the same time I need it. I need a harsh dose of reality in all aspects. I need the wake up call to deal with my emotions, and my husbands. 

Thank you everyone. I hope I can give ye a happy update in the near future.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Dragonflie said:


> Yes I did.
> 
> Long story short, he said that it hurt but he knows the OM is like an escape from reality, and we both agreed that if we are to make this work, that it can't be happening anymore.


No, it shouldn't happen at all period. If you're going to work on your marriage, the other man should be completely cut off. No contact, no exceptions. You can't half-way work on your marriage, you need to be all in.

The other man is just like you said, an escape. He seems perfect because you don't have to deal with all his problems and garbage, like you do your husband. Your husband has had to deal with all the crud you've thrown his way, and he still loves you.

You guys should purchase the books "Love & Respect", "His Needs, Her Needs", and "The Five Love Languages".

Read them together, and do the workbooks/projects they give you.


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## Dragonflie (Jun 10, 2016)

BioFury said:


> Dragonflie said:
> 
> 
> > Yes I did.
> ...


I will look into them. Thank you x


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Dragonflie said:


> I will look into them. Thank you x


They will open your husband's eyes, and your eyes, and have the potential to make a huge difference in your relationship. I would strongly suggest you buy them, and dedicate time to read them together each day/week.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

BioFury said:


> No, *it shouldn't happen at all period*. If you're going to work on your marriage, the other man should be completely cut off. *No contact, no exceptions. You can't half-way work on your marriage, you need to be all in.*
> 
> The other man is just like you said, an escape. He seems perfect because you don't have to deal with all his problems and garbage, like you do your husband. Your husband has had to deal with all the crud you've thrown his way, and he still loves you.
> 
> ...


On top of the above excellent suggestions, I'm going to also advise that you buy your husband the MMSL Primer. Like I said in an earlier post, it's a guide for men on how to be better husbands in order to attract their wife. That book is for your husband only. You don't want to know how sausages are made.


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## Dragonflie (Jun 10, 2016)

jsmart said:


> On top of the above excellent suggestions, I'm going to also advise that you buy your husband the MMSL Primer. Like I said in an earlier post, it's a guide for men on how to be better husbands in order to attract their wife. That book is for your husband only. You don't want to know how sausages are made.


Great, thank you! 

I've looked up all of your book recommendations, and sent the links to my H (he's not here tonight) so fingers crossed!


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Now this is much better. I am truly sorry if your feelings were hurt, but you were in a thick fog that couldn't let you see the forest from the trees.

You were one foot in the marriage, but the rest of you was pretty much out the door. That is no way to reconcile. 

We are here for you, but we will not sugar coat anything. That would not help you or the marriage.

I honestly hope your marriage not only survives, but thrives!

You hold the key to this. Your husband is on board and pro-marriage. Now that's a great start!

Marriage counseling will help you guys even more. Please set up an appointment to see one as soon as you two can.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Your poor husband. He is your Plan B.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> Your poor husband. He is your Plan B.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes he was, but things are looking up from my point of view!


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Please have your husband come on here so we can tell him to divorce you. This whole post is about what you need, that is not a marriage. I contend that you are emotionally lazy, instead of working with your husband you went to another man. You say yourself that the sex in the beginning when for your husband was the honeymoon phase was basically out of obligation. You were using him for emotional support. Now you expect him to be all hot for you when you basically went through the motions when he was just starting with you, oh and then you cheated. Did you work to fix this did you work together. Nope you cheated like the entitled person you are. Seriously you are a terrible wife. Just awful. Now you want your husband lose weight for you? Seriously why bother, you are to lazy to give a true sh_t about your marriage or your husband. Do the guy a favor and leave him so he can have someone who is truly devoted to him.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Dragon,
I believe you have provided an unlifnhingly honest and very balanced account of events. Perhaps a few general comments will be helpful. 

Its great you told him not to grope you. 

Is the problem with kissing - that because it's infrequent - he's coming on too fast and too strong? Maybe not letting YOUR desire build. 

Pacing is WAY more important than most people think. 

Clearly you like him. Do you respect him? Specifically - what do you respect about him? 






Dragonflie said:


> Great, thank you!
> 
> I've looked up all of your book recommendations, and sent the links to my H (he's not here tonight) so fingers crossed!


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
In regards to your lack of desire for your H, is it possible that he represents a time in your life that you would rather forget and leave in the past? You and he met during your struggle with your Mom's condition and then subsequently her death. Is it plausible that your H is an unwelcome reminder of a very sad time in your life and that a good portion of your resentment comes from having had to dole out sex when it really was the last thing on your mind during that period.

Just something to consider but if you believe that could be part or all of the problem then you must reframe how you view your H if you want to move forward with the marriage. Good fortune.


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## Dragonflie (Jun 10, 2016)

Bibi1031 said:


> Now this is much better. I am truly sorry if your feelings were hurt, but you were in a thick fog that couldn't let you see the forest from the trees.
> 
> You were one foot in the marriage, but the rest of you was pretty much out the door. That is no way to reconcile.
> 
> ...


Thank you.

I have looked into marriage counselling last year, it was difficult to get an appointment that both of us were available for. So I chose to go by myself. I found it very helpful and I did find myself opening up more to him on my feelings and fears. 

But I have found times tough, and I think I've found things tough since my mother died. It impacted my life severely. She was my best friend. I worked full time while doing my courses for my career, saved whatever money I had left over towards opening my own business, all in my early twenties. I grew up very fast. While my friends were in college this was my life. For a year I worked full time and was managing my business right after work full time. 

Even though my H was my emotional support, I felt no financial etc support from him. That is both our faults. We let that happen. We chose not to address our issues and "cross that bridge when we come to it" even though we were already on the bridge. 

I felt a lack of respect, and in return I had no respect for him. That was wrong. We had been out for ourselves for a long time, but not for each other. 

We both accepted fault for everything that happened.

Whether people here believe it or not, i really do want to make things work with my H. I had no intention on going to a marriage forum to discuss how to leave him. I just feel lost.


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## Dragonflie (Jun 10, 2016)

MEM11363 said:


> Dragon,
> I believe you have provided an unlifnhingly honest and very balanced account of events. Perhaps a few general comments will be helpful.
> 
> Its great you told him not to grope you.
> ...


Thank you.

I think with regards to kissing, at the beginning of the relation ship I was grieving, and not sexually available. I was a shadow of my former self. 

Then as resentment built, kissing always attempted to be leading to sex (understandably) and id over think, and close myself off. 

And I think now at this stage, with everything that happened, there is alot of pressure to fix things, and im still getting past what I did. 

Respect, I think more than anything, I lost respect for myself. I never thought I would cheat, and it was a hard life lesson to learn. I know that me and the OM have been in contact again recently, and I honestly think he is just my escape from reality. Of course it's easier to just think I'll leave my H, go to the OM and be happy, but I know that's not the case. He is definitely just an escape. I've just needed to wake up to that.


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## Dragonflie (Jun 10, 2016)

NoChoice said:


> OP,
> In regards to your lack of desire for your H, is it possible that he represents a time in your life that you would rather forget and leave in the past? You and he met during your struggle with your Mom's condition and then subsequently her death. Is it plausible that your H is an unwelcome reminder of a very sad time in your life and that a good portion of your resentment comes from having had to dole out sex when it really was the last thing on your mind during that period.
> 
> Just something to consider but if you believe that could be part or all of the problem then you must reframe how you view your H if you want to move forward with the marriage. Good fortune.


Me and my H spoke about that before. I'd say a part of me did think that way. And the saddest thing about that is that it's not his fault. 

People asked me before I married him why I was marrying young. My first responses usually were that we've been through hard times together and he helped me through the toughest time in my life. My first response should have been because I love him. 

It's taken me a long time to realise that.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Dragonflie said:


> Me and my H spoke about that before. I'd say a part of me did think that way. And the saddest thing about that is that it's not his fault.
> 
> People asked me before I married him why I was marrying young. My first responses usually were that *we've been through hard times together and he helped me through the toughest time in my life. *My first response should have been because I love him.
> 
> It's taken me a long time to realise that.


That is probably a big part of why you love him.


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## Dragonflie (Jun 10, 2016)

jld said:


> Dragonflie said:
> 
> 
> > Me and my H spoke about that before. I'd say a part of me did think that way. And the saddest thing about that is that it's not his fault.
> ...


Yes. And I love him because he does supports me no matter what. Even when I left last year, he said that my happiness was important to him, and he will accept if it's not with him. We cried and hugged for a long time. 
I know he loves me unconditionally and deserves better. He spent so long focusing on me. Now I need to focus on him.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Dragonflie said:


> My first response should have been because I love him.
> 
> It's taken me a long time to realise that.


This is a good realization. Now you need to get rid of the guilt. You are not perfect. You were vulnerable and fell into temptation. Forgive yourself as your husband has forgiven you. Keep that ugliness to remind yourself that we are all human and imperfect. 

Time to fall in love with hubby! You skipped all that way back then. Not your fault though; you did your best with whst you had ar the time. You are wiser now. It will get better. You will be happy. Your mother will be happy for you too.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Dragonflie said:


> I know he loves me unconditionally and deserves better. He spent so long focusing on me. Now I need to focus on him.


Now you are understanding love and hopefully marriage. He does love you, flaws and all. That's the love you need to give as well. You are not perfect, and he love you anyway. He is not perfect and maybe you can love him and his faults anyway.


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## Unicus (Jun 2, 2016)

Bibi1031 said:


> Now you are understanding love and hopefully marriage.


Really? 

This thread keeps popping up as I responded it, and I'm simply aghast at some of the content. I imagine folks furiously tapping out responses on their smart phones as they walk down the street or otherwise should really be concentrating on other things. This situation might be irresistible and kewl for responders, but it's the OP's life you're interfering with. There's only one course of action here.


OP, there's just no easy answers here, and although there's no doubt you're enjoying all the immediate attention you're getting here, there's also little doubt that what you seem to be after is some very quaint support for your position..which as best as I can tell, is one of very contrite, and very vague, guilt. 

That you "Tried" marriage therapy but you and H couldn't find a convenient time says it all. MC isn't something you "Try", hun...it's something you make a commitment to and prioritize...like the marriage itself. Marriage is work, even when it's cruising along well...but most especially when it isn't....it then especially requires work..investment of time and money and making the marriage the priority...and that is so clearly absent. That's the point that should have been hammered home by the chattering classes.

Sometimes feeling a little anxiety or guilt or stress are good as its a motivator to get to the doctor and find both the cause and the cure. What's happened here is nothing short of reducing all that just enough for you to justify continuation along the same road. Unfortunately, without repair it's a dead end.

The books recommended..."Bibliotherapy?"...is appealing b/c its easy, unfortunately yours is beyond that. But get them anyways, it'll give you something to to pass the time while you're waiting for the depositions to begin.

Get.Therapy.Now.


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## Dragonflie (Jun 10, 2016)

Unicus said:


> Really?
> 
> This thread keeps popping up as I responded it, and I'm simply aghast at some of the content. I imagine folks furiously tapping out responses on their smart phones as they walk down the street or otherwise should really be concentrating on other things. This situation might be irresistible and kewl for responders, but it's the OP's life you're interfering with. There's only one course of action here.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't say I'm "enjoying" the attention, I came here to get outside views from people who don't know me and are not biased based on knowing me and my H. I hoped on a forum like this that maybe people have gone through something like what I'm going through and can speak from their experiences. 

I am in no way enjoying harsh doses of reality and bring perceived as a bad wife. 

But I am waking up to alot of realisations from people's advice, whether they are harsh or not. 

We are currently on the waiting list for the marriage therapy, it is through our marriage course. He works during the day and I work in the evenings. Therapy appointments are not currently available on weekends. But I went by myself for a few months, I took what was offered. We will just have to go elsewhere to see if they can take us in for therapy.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Dragon,
It is very interesting that you took two simple questions regarding how you feel about him - and made them about your flawed responses to life. 

It is great you have a conscience. That said, your marriage can only succeed if you are willing to say what is true about him - as well as yourself. 

I am going to give you an easier way to talk about this. You don't have to say: I don't respect him because he doesn't work, consistently work out, doesn't do XYZ, plays too many video games.

Instead you can say: It would build respect if you did more of, and less of. And you can add: And that might help with our desire issues. 

And just so there is absolutely no doubt on this point, your H does seem to love you pretty near unconditionally. And I believe the thought of leaving the totally safe harbor he has created - frightens you.

Part of the reason it's a safe harbor - is you two follow this quiet unspoken policy which is some version of: I won't complain about your bad behavior, if you don't complain about mine. 

Your affair, while unfortunate does not erase your basic human rights. 

You already have life and liberty, so maybe it's time to engage in the pursuit of happiness. 




Dragonflie said:


> Thank you.
> 
> I think with regards to kissing, at the beginning of the relation ship I was grieving, and not sexually available. I was a shadow of my former self.
> 
> ...


----------



## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

@Dragonflie

I put some rather serious thought into your situation because you mentioned that you met your husband as your mom was passing away. I too am effected by similar dynamics in my life. As I am a bit older I have witnessed the death now of two generations before me and how that impacts family and myself. *When someone of your immediate family passes away, particularly under difficult circumstances, there is a very natural tendency to try and separate ourselves from the people AND environment that is associated with that death.*

I've seen fathers have a wife pass away, and then immediately distance themselves from all their children on two occasions. Perhaps the children remind them too much of the marriage that the father once had that has now ended in death. 

You mentioned you were happiest when you traveled overseas, and met someone completely unassociated with where you grew up and the family surrounding your mother's death. Perhaps this was you escape mechanism to help let go of your mother bonds emotionally, and completely break free and feel independent of her. In a sense this may have been a way for you to cope with grief and emotionally bury your mother. 

I'll leave you with this thought... My great grandmother was the one who raised me and I spent almost all my time with her after school. She was more of a mother figure to me while my own mother often worked. My great grandmother was someone who grew up in the great depression and experienced life before electricity. She instilled in me an attitude towards life and how to handle tough situations that radiates in who I am today, almost as if she were a thriving apart of me. I find myself later in life still as close to her as I was when I was a young child. While it is at times painful to embrace the memories of a loved one, you'll find that doing so brings you closer in touch with the core of who you are and your ability to truly be happy and thrive in your life.* Don't run away from that and emotionally treat your husband as a scapegoat. In my opinion I think you know deep down this is the reason you want to learn to be closer to him again.*

Best wishes, 
Badsanta


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

OP what do you think he gets out of the relationship with you? Why should he stay with you?


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## pplwatching (Jun 15, 2012)

A lot of ground has been covered in this thread, so I am just going to cherry pick one thing from your original post.



Dragonflie said:


> he's chosen to not make sexual advances towards me until I feel ready


My wife and I went through years of walking on egg shells around sex. I would wait until I thought that she was receptive, and she would think that any time she showed me any affection that I would interpret it as a chance for sex so she avoided any physical affection. Your marriage is different, but if it's anything like mine this pattern of behavior is horribly destructive.

In my opinion you should put an end to this. If I had to boil it down to one sentence, "let him be a man who can show his wife that he wants her sexually." This one thing will do wonders for his self esteem. Give him the green light to court you and seduce you whenever he feels like it. Be receptive to his advances as often as you can. You don't have to be his sex toy, but start treating sex as a way to reconnect and express your love for each other. Give him physical affection outside of the bedroom. 

Best to you both


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Unicus said:


> Really?
> 
> 
> Get.Therapy.Now.


Yes really. The woman finally broke down and had an honest talk with her husband. Her guilt was pushing them away. Guilt is not going to help if it pushes her away. Her guilt is pushing her away, and he is not even showing his hurt yet. That day will come. With her guilt and his hurt, this reconciliation doesn't stand a chance. Too much pain and shame hinder improvement and serves no purpose. She needs to forgive herself in order to move forward for when husband will need her.

I completely agree in regards to therapy now. The books will get them started. Therapy takes a bit more time to start going. Their schedules conflict. This happens often. Finding a therapist that is a good fit for both spouses may take time as well.


Baby steps in the right direction need to be acknowledged. Dragonflie is finally trying by opening up to strangers online and to husband.

You can't keep hitting someone with 2x4s if you see improvement. That will only run them off and rightfully so. Badgering a WS that comes for help is not helping IMHO.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

QFT




Bibi1031 said:


> Yes really. The woman finally broke down and had an honest talk with her husband. Her guilt was pushing them away. Guilt is not going to help if it pushes her away. Her guilt is pushing her away, and he is not even showing his hurt yet. That day will come. With her guilt and his hurt, this reconciliation doesn't stand a chance. Too much pain and shame hinder improvement and serves no purpose. She needs to forgive herself in order to move forward for when husband will need her.
> 
> I completely agree in regards to therapy now. The books will get them started. Therapy takes a bit more time to start going. Their schedules conflict. This happens often. Finding a therapist that is a good fit for both spouses may take time as well.
> 
> ...


----------



## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

I still think she should just get a divorce, she hasn't desired her husband since pretty much day 1 in the marriage and only married him because he was there for her during a difficult time. She keeps him around as he's apparently her cheerleader no matter she does to him and let's be honest that is nice to have around. He's her emotional support and to lose that would inconvenience the OP, so it's just better to keep him around miserable, no sex, unloved, even gets yelled out if he makes a pass at his own wife. then be honest and straight with him that she is not in love with him like a wife should be at all, she finds him fat, unappealing, undesirable, and she has no attraction to him at all, he will find happiness with someone who is.

The OP needs to just grow a set and stop stringing the poor guy along and wasting more his life. Be honest and say we should get a divorce to the poor guy.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

pplwatching said:


> If I had to boil it down to one sentence, "let him be a man who can show his wife that he wants her sexually." This one thing will do wonders for his self esteem. Give him the green light to court you and seduce you whenever he feels like it. Be receptive to his advances as often as you can.


In her opening post, the OP says she point-blank doesn't feel sexual towards him. How is she going to do the above? She doesn't want him to seduce her and show he wants her sexually. If she doesn't feel sexual toward him she is NEVER going to be receptive to his advances.


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

Sawney Beane said:


> In her opening post, the OP says she point-blank doesn't feel sexual towards him. How is she going to do the above? She doesn't want him to seduce her and show he wants her sexually. If she doesn't feel sexual toward him she is NEVER going to be receptive to his advances.


This exactly, since day 1 she basically found him sexually undesirable and cut off sex, doesn't even kiss him and is repulsed by the way he kisses. She may be able to "pretend" to be into it for a week or two but it's completely unsustainable long term.

I don't see any way a marriage works with a wife who has basically been disgusted with her husband physically since the beginning of their marriage. You can't fake sexual desire, you just can't.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Knob,

For a moment I'm going to apply the ruthless lens of market behavior to this relationship. 

What she purchased was a guy who was calm, loving, supportive and safe. More a large, loving child, than an equal.

She purchased that by adopting him, not marrying him. As his adoptive mother she totally supported him financially and did most of the housework. She occasionally had to clean up messes he made buying stuff beyond their means. 

He purchased a second mother by offering unconditional love and emotional support. 

He sort of understood that's 'mom', wasn't really attracted to him. But she funded a near unlimited budget of hours for video games. And while not attracted to him, mostly she was nice to hm. 

---------





knobcreek said:


> I still think she should just get a divorce, she hasn't desired her husband since pretty much day 1 in the marriage and only married him because he was there for her during a difficult time. She keeps him around as he's apparently her cheerleader no matter she does to him and let's be honest that is nice to have around. He's her emotional support and to lose that would inconvenience the OP, so it's just better to keep him around miserable, no sex, unloved, even gets yelled out if he makes a pass at his own wife. then be honest and straight with him that she is not in love with him like a wife should be at all, she finds him fat, unappealing, undesirable, and she has no attraction to him at all, he will find happiness with someone who is.
> 
> The OP needs to just grow a set and stop stringing the poor guy along and wasting more his life. Be honest and say we should get a divorce to the poor guy.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

It is possible to love a man as a friend, dragon, and only as a friend. Especially when he was such a good friend during a very hard time of your life.

I think you are cheating each other and yourselves by staying together when there is no natural spark.


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## Dragonflie (Jun 10, 2016)

sokillme said:


> OP what do you think he gets out of the relationship with you? Why should he stay with you?


I've asked him something similar to this last night. 
I asked did he want to be with me, or is he just trying to hang on to something for the sake of it and afraid of what might happen? 

He said he loved me, and wanted to be with me. 

We get on well together, we hang out alot, are into alot of the same things in life. But as I said to him, we can't hang on to a marriage where we are just being friends. We need to be romantic partners too.


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## pplwatching (Jun 15, 2012)

One option is to throw out the baby with the bath water, and take a chance that a man with romantic attraction will bring all of that to the table. The other is to work together to kindle that romantic spark

Either way don't live with one foot in your marriage. If you want to be married then act like it. If you don't want to have a sex less marriage then having sex is one way to get yourself back into your marriage. It might even kindle romantic feelings. Or, go ahead and cut both of you loose. It may be the easiest path today but might be the longer road tomorrow. 

Good luck


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## Dragonflie (Jun 10, 2016)

pplwatching said:


> A lot of ground has been covered in this thread, so I am just going to cherry pick one thing from your original post.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I definitely agree on the horrible pattern that has formed, he's given me the opportunity to take the lead. Last week we properly kissed for the first time in a while. He suggested we started, but would let me lead. I swear, I was literally shaking for about 5 mins before I kissed him, it was built up so much in my head. He could feel my fear. We made out for a few mins, he asked me to show him how I like to be kissed, I tried but I told him that I don't want to change how he likes to be kissed either. I psyched myself out after the kiss (there was no intention of it leading to anything else, unless it felt right) and have avoided it since, on the fear of the worst case scenario that feelings won't change. 

But I also realise that not trying is not going to help the situation, and if we try to get past the awkward stage of "its been so long and a lot of sh*t has happened, there's a lot of pressure on this", it could work. I need to just focus 100% on trying again.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

The odds of marital success drop with every new post. 

You (mostly) love how he treats you, not who he is.

He's not intellectually, physically or financially ambitious. Not adventurous. 

His oscillating weight isn't a function of sexual frequency, it's tied to his lack of affinity for exerting himself.

That said, you are going to struggle in a new and 'balanced' relationship. Dont get me wrong, you will be hyper sexual. But every conflict, each situation you don't get your way - is gonna cause you intense anxiety. 

On the stability/excitement scale, you've been living in a hyper stable, sexless bubble for a long time. 






Dragonflie said:


> I've asked him something similar to this last night.
> I asked did he want to be with me, or is he just trying to hang on to something for the sake of it and afraid of what might happen?
> 
> He said he loved me, and wanted to be with me.
> ...


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## pplwatching (Jun 15, 2012)

It's good to see that you understand that doing nothing isn't an option. I am never a fan of threads where the peanut gallery chimes in "Get a divorce" and "You're not going to make it". If those posts are telling you what you already know, then you know what you have to do. If you are looking for someone else to tell you that you should get out of your marriage, then you've come to the right place. Otherwise, realize that 100% of the success or failure of your marriage lies in the tender care of 2 people. If you are hopeful that your marriage can be turned around, then I'm sorry for the overwhelmingly negative advice that you've gotten. 

At the end of the day, this is your marriage. Do you have challenges ahead of you? Absolutely. Will love grow and blossom in your marriage? Maybe, if you water the flowers and pull the weeds. No one wants the pressure of thinking through a kiss, much less deciding if it's the right time to have sex. If initiating a smooch is stressful for you, then let your husband take the lead. Let him hold your hand when you're getting groceries. Let him be spontaneous with the occasional smootch. He's your partner. Trust him to help you. That's what we sign up for when we get married.


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## Dragonflie (Jun 10, 2016)

MEM11363 said:


> That said, you are going to struggle in a new and 'balanced' relationship. Dont get me wrong, you will be hyper sexual. But every conflict, each situation you don't get your way - is gonna cause you intense anxiety.
> 
> On the stability/excitement scale, you've been living in a hyper stable, sexless bubble for a long time.
> 
> ...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Dragon,
One last thing. Where your husband is concerned, you have this thing - called a sexual aversion.

It is quite literally the opposite of attraction. 

I have never seen someone overcome that. 

And separate from that - you can't change his core traits. His lack of ambition and discipline. 

You are neither compatible in nor out of bed. 




Dragonflie said:


> MEM11363 said:
> 
> 
> > That said, you are going to struggle in a new and 'balanced' relationship. Dont get me wrong, you will be hyper sexual. But every conflict, each situation you don't get your way - is gonna cause you intense anxiety.
> ...


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Dragonflie said:


> I did not come here already defeated. I came here because I feel lost and don't know where to turn. I came here because I know I messed up, and I truly feel terrible for it.
> I know some people here feel im being selfish and being a terrible wife, and everyone is entitled to their opinions. But it is easy to look at it from the outside without knowing everything about me and my H. I would be writing here all day if I was to try and make people see it from every side with parts they don't know. And I feel some people are really focusing on my comment about his weight, or that I am "repulsed" by him. I know some of you won't believe me, but I've never told him he needs to lose weight or change how he looks. I gained weight too through the hard times with my mother. People let themselves go now and again. We're human. He lost over 4 stone at one point, and when he gained it back, it made me sad. Not in a repulsive way, just in that I know when our sex life is affected, he, like I, turn to food. It's more of a reflection on what the weight gain means. And I hope people understand that.
> 
> Thank you for your advice.


I'll tell you a secret -- 

The details that you _think_ matter? They don't. At least not if you don't address them head on.

If you feel that your husband's weight, or kissing technique, or approach to love-making, or <insert whatever here> are keeping you from "getting there", then you need to speak up and tell him that. He can't change what you don't address.

No one is telling you that you _should_ stay in your marriage. What we are telling you, however, is this: for as long as you _are_ married, conduct yourself as such. Throw yourself fully into your marriage. Also (gently) insist that your husband do the same... but be realistic. Don't let him bringing home the wrong milk or not cleaning the bathroom to your liking be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

Also realize this -- a lot of guys (this one included) would've kindly suggested that you a) GTFO and b) stay gone roughly 5 seconds after learning that you'd given yourself to another man.

Your husband, however, did not do that. He chose instead to extend the gift of reconciliation.

So either accept the gift or don't. Whichever you choose, though, do it gracefully, lest you do further harm to a man that you claim to love.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

How old are you and how old is your husband Dragonflie?

So you have been together with your husband for 8 years but married 3 right? 

A year after you married you met a man that swept you off your feet and you experienced passion for the very first time...am I right so far?

Why did you leave OM? You said you separated from your husband; why did you go back to husband? 

It has been a year and a half trying to fix your marriage and you have not had sex with your husband for 6 months now. 

Who contacted who...OM contacted you or you contacted OM? Did you have absolutely no contact with other man these 1.5 years that you came back to your husband, or did you just not sleep with OM?

I am not prying, It's just that the details are not clear and the timeline is fussy as well.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Gus,

While your advice is generally sound, I think a quick psychological MRI is in order. 

Humans consist of three discrete yet related layers. 

- Knowledge
- Skills
- Traits

Most of Dragons issues with her H are tied to his traits. While folks with unfortunate traits CAN learn coping mechanisms (skills intended to help them work around themselves), they can't change their fundamental selves. 

Dragon has offered us a fascinating picture - in the sense that she has been incredibly transparent in some ways - and totally opaque in others. 

Her aversion to discussing her husbands traits and lack of respect for him - is every bit as pronounced as her aversion to having sex with him.

If I were her father I would gently encourage her to replace her husband with a skilled individual counselor. 

And the reason I believe she needs counseling is - she married him 5 years into this relationship. 





GusPolinski said:


> I'll tell you a secret --
> 
> The details that you _think_ matter? They don't. At least not if you don't address them head on.
> 
> ...


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Dragonflie,

Here's your homework....Go have sex with your husband, and enjoy it.


If you can't bring yourself to do that--soon--go find a lawyer.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

Dragonflie said:


> He NEVER cleaned the house. On my days off I'd be wasting the day cleaning. He wanted sex alot,


Sex feels good. doing housework in a womans' house, does not (without the attached attention/feedback kink).

Being out of work saps a mans purpose and reach, basically kills his testosterone. Having sex increases it and dumps in a pile of extra hormones/ento-chemicals which takes times, makes him feel high, and valuable.
You perceive him as worthless, and without social status. thus do not want to mate with him.

Getting a job when you feel like worthless s...t is very unpleasant, especially if there is no public or social support. Every movement is a chore, and every facing of inadequacy a direct kick to the gonads for him.
And people want to hire winners - they want candidates that will promise the world and say they can do everything. Strangely enough, this is not how redundant stay at home people feel about themselves or life.

You want your life to continue on the work-career-family ideal fantasy. You don't want to deal with other peoples' speed bumps in their lives, they're supposed to be fliers who make you feel good. Not projects themselves. How dare your husband feel bad or need help, that's not what men are for.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

Dragonflie said:


> I am in no way enjoying harsh doses of reality and bring perceived as a bad wife.


There are good wives?

What do they do/what are they like? (if you know what is bad, then you should have an idea of what is good. Generally it's more about social "jarring" from the clash between hopes and "reality" that is the "bad" and "harsh" , since most people are imperfect so being a "good anything" is really a bit of lie. Would the "good wife" be all capable like Martha Stewart (without the jail time and insider trading problem)...could you imagine the horror of living inside a prison (I mean household) like that!? Okay, you get to choose which way to hang the toilet roll, but nothing else more consequential should the neighbours find out....


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## pplwatching (Jun 15, 2012)

I don't have any practical experience with your situation, other than my wife and I were completely sexless for a while. I can offer suggestions in the hope that they will help, but a professional might be a better choice. What I can say is that if you decide to stay married to your husband, the first thing that I suggest is that you come to terms with the fact there isn't going to be a quick fix. If you commit to working on your marriage, you are committing for the long haul. Not just that; you have to be motivated to work through this. In other words, you have to want it and you have to put your sweat and tears into it. There are no half measures. You are either both completely invested, or you are doomed before you even start.

Start by finding things to compliment about each other. Write a love note about something that you like about him. Ask him to do the same. Work on making sure that each of you feels valued and appreciated.



Dragonflie said:


> We're human. He lost over 4 stone at one point, and when he gained it back, it made me sad. Not in a repulsive way, just in that I know when our sex life is affected, he, like I, turn to food. It's more of a reflection on what the weight gain means.


Some people will eat too much when they are depressed. Others will eat less. I think that for romance to bud it's important to do things together and have common goals. A common exercise or weight loss goal may help you feel closer to him. You may have already said, but can the two of you find time to exercise together? Even a walk together might help the two of you bond. Can you sit down together and discuss diet and healthy food choices? Then, take time to celebrate your successes together.

I will again suggest that you take the sexual muzzle off of your husband. I realize that he put his balls in his sock drawer out of love for you, but ask yourself how can you feel sexually attracted to a eunuch who's not allowed to show you that he wants you _in that way_? My guess is that the OM showed a lot of interest in you, and it felt good. Why would you want your husband to do anything else? How attractive is a man who never lets you know that he's thinking of you as both a romantic and sexual lover? Our situation was different from yours, but there was a time when my wife had no interest in sex whatsoever. For us, it helped that we were able to find ways to be intimate on a regular basis outside of the bedroom, without sex. That included frequent hand-holding, back rubs, talking to each other, kisses on the cheek and many other things that allowed us to be close without immediate sexual tension. Sometimes we'd spoon naked, which made us feel intimately connected (oxytocin probably had something to do with that).

Of course there were times when those things were sexually arousing, but rather than take a cold shower we also agreed that I could seduce her any time that I wanted, and that she could decline any time provided that it didn't happen consistently. As the LD spouse, my wife had to be open to having sex whenever I wanted it. As the higher drive spouse I had to "meter myself" a little and pay attention to her sexual rhythm. Sometimes I would only initiate once a week. Other times we've had sex every other day, but it ends up not being as passionate or exciting. Waiting a few days gives us a chance to use non-sexual intimacy to build up a little sexual tension outside of the bedroom first. 

Lastly, or maybe firstly I think that it's important to stop over-thinking things. Try to be spontaneous if you can. Don't try to psych yourself up to an intimate kiss. Start with less intimate kisses as you leave for work, come home, and as you turn out the lights at night. Make it a habit. When you're comfortable, then let them linger a little longer. Get naked with each other. Be vulnerable. 

I wish that I had more relevant suggestions. Hopefully if you decide to re-commit to your marriage there's something useful there for you.

Again, best wishes to you and your husband.


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## jaydee (Jan 21, 2013)

please dont waste anymore of your life with a man you have no feelings for...sex is such an important part of a loving relationship. i wonder why you feel that you have to stay? jo


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## Dragonflie (Jun 10, 2016)

Bibi1031 said:


> How old are you and how old is your husband Dragonflie?
> 
> * I'm 26, he's 33. *
> 
> ...


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Dragonflie, there's not a lot unusual about your affair, and I'm getting the feeling that it's not over. You are trying to will it to be over but it's not working.

What is the right thing for your husband here? Forget about what you want. What is the best outcome you can realistically give him?


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## Dragonflie (Jun 10, 2016)

Wazza said:


> What is the right thing for your husband here? Forget about what you want. What is the best outcome you can realistically give him?


Best outcome I could give him, would be a happier marriage. Would be to focus more on him, and our happiness. To give him a sex life he deserves. 

And if my feelings don't change, best outcome I will have to give him is the chance for happiness with someone else. When I left last year, I told him that I felt he would be happier with someone else, he said no. He said he only wants me. But I know that I can't stay and keep him in an unhappy marriage if things stay like this.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Dragonflie, you married your husband for the wrong reasons. You went back to your husband for the wrong reasons as well.

No wonder you have no real chemistry with him, you married him because it was convenient. You went back to him because it was not in your best interest to leave. No love in your reconciliation, just a need not to lose what you worked from for so long. 

You are a very smart woman and think with your head more than with your emotions most of the time. It was not in your best interest economically or career wise to leave everything for love.

Instead of trashing everything you built for love, you let it go. I understand your guilt a little better now. You have used your husband all this time. He may not be the best choice for you. You are not a good choice for him.

Please set him free. You need to stop using him and you need to work on you and learn to be on your own for a bit. You will probably lose financially in this deal, but he deserves happiness with a woman that will truly love him and not use him because he is convenient. 

You don't know how to be on yout own. That is why you are afraid to leave him. You don't want o lose what you have built with your hard work, but you are trapped in a prison of your own making and one which you have held the key to fly away for so long. 

Cut some of your losses by being financially fair with your STBXH.
Get yourself emotionally mature with the help of an IC. Then pursue love and happiness.

You already know OM is not in your best interest to pursue, but you have trouble letting go of people and things. You string them along. That is wrong and unfair. That's why you feel guilty about your treatment of your husband. It was very smart of you not to have children; deep down you knew you marriage was not forever. 

Your marriage somewhat resembles a marriage of the 1950s, but with the roles reversed. He wasn't the ideal Step-ford wife because you you failed to add a maid service to your marriage package. He should of cheated on you for your lack of fulfilling your marriage obligations in the sex department. Instead, he consoled himself with teenager behaviors. You created this sham of a marriage. You need to end it as well. Time to pull the plug!

Please do this ASAP!


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Dragonflie said:


> Best outcome I could give him, would be a happier marriage. Would be to focus more on him, and our happiness. To give him a sex life he deserves.
> .


Sadly, you will NEVER be capable of giving him this. End the sham.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Dragonflie said:


> Best outcome I could give him, would be a happier marriage. Would be to focus more on him, and our happiness. To give him a sex life he deserves.


In times past, women often had to do this, especially if they had children. But you do not even have children. He has been a good friend to you. But marriage is much more than friendship. Or at least can be.



> And if my feelings don't change, best outcome I will have to give him is the chance for happiness with someone else. When I left last year, I told him that I felt he would be happier with someone else, he said no. He said he only wants me. But I know that I can't stay and keep him in an unhappy marriage if things stay like this.


He has gotten a lot from you. Not every woman would support a man who did not work up until these last six months and just sat around playing video games. 

I don't think reconciliation is a gift here, and certainly not one he is supposedly giving to you. I think the best gift to each of you would be thanking each other for the friendship and his thanking you for the financial support, and then both of you moving on.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Dragonflie said:


> Best outcome I could give him, would be a happier marriage. Would be to focus more on him, and our happiness. To give him a sex life he deserves.
> 
> And if my feelings don't change, best outcome I will have to give him is the chance for happiness with someone else. When I left last year, I told him that I felt he would be happier with someone else, he said no. He said he only wants me. But I know that I can't stay and keep him in an unhappy marriage if things stay like this.


I'm not sure what it takes to give him your first paragraph. You recognise sex as a need yet have not fulfilled it for six months. 

Be very careful, should sex resume, not to fall pregnant until you have worked things out. That would make the situation much worse.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Dragonflie said:


> I definitely agree on the horrible pattern that has formed, he's given me the opportunity to take the lead. Last week we properly kissed for the first time in a while. He suggested we started, but would let me lead. *I swear, I was literally shaking for about 5 mins before I kissed him,* it was built up so much in my head. He could feel my fear. We made out for a few mins, he asked me to show him how I like to be kissed, I tried but I told him that I don't want to change how he likes to be kissed either. I psyched myself out after the kiss (there was no intention of it leading to anything else, unless it felt right) and have *avoided it since, on the fear of the worst case scenario that feelings won't change. *
> 
> But I also realise that not trying is not going to help the situation, and if we try to get past the awkward stage of "its been so long and a lot of sh*t has happened, *there's a lot of pressure on this", it could work. I need to just focus 100% on trying again.*


I bolded a few sentences that stuck out to me as problematic. I think in order to have good intimacy with your husband you have to expect nothing really. You have to be OK with sex being awkward at times and feeling your bodies out of sync with one another. There are MANY reasons couples have sex, read this list and think about them:

1) Desire for your pleasure.
2) Desire to pleasure your partner.
3) Emotionally connect with your partner.
4) Try to get pregnant 
5) Mutual Desire for each other in the form of strong physical arousal
6) Mutual Desire for each other emotionally (no arousal initially)
7) Mutual Desire for each other physically and emotionally

Each of the experiences described above are a very different experience, and it is very possible that each of you come to each other on different levels with you #2 and your husband is a #3 one day. Next time it may be you wanting a #5 and your husband wanting #7. Then serious sparks fly when you are finally at #1 and your husband is at #2. 

The purpose of what I am saying is we have to all look at "WHY" we have sex. And then of course that there are a variety of experiences after sex that couples feel, and you get into the "aftercare" aspect of sex, that often needs just as much attention as cultivating sexual energy during foreplay.

Sit down and talk about all these with your husband and try to better understand where he is when the moment comes and where you are. Sometimes my wife is aroused and wants multiple orgasms and to tease the crap out of me in the process (perhaps forbidding me to orgasm). Sometimes I am very aroused and she is not really capable of getting aroused, but she enjoys pleasing me (making me orgasm as fast as possible). Then there are times when we are in sync and climax together, but those moments do not always happen. ...my point being is if I know why she is having sex with me through communication, I have to mentally be prepared to switch gears from selfishness, selflessness (both equally as erotic), or togetherness. NEVER will I know what to expect until the moment happens... 

Of course this could just be me, but hope that helps.

Badsanta


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

I tend to agree that your H was a "safe" choice who got you out of a bad situation with your FOO, and so it seems you feel indebted to him. Which is decent of you. But it also seems you were never hot for your H. And it is not decent of you to pretend otherwise. Don't repay your H's generosity by subjecting him to additional torture. If there is something he can change to become more attractive to you, tell him, see if he can do it, and then see how you feel. That process should take no more than 3 to 6 months. If you can't bring yourself to be honest, then bite the bullet and divorce. If you tell him and he tries but you still don't feel any spark, bite the bullet and divorce.

You were a different person 8 years ago. You were weak and needy. You needed him. You were willing to have sex with him to get him to help you, even though you did not find him attractive. Now you are strong and healthy and you don't need him. Which makes it impossible for you to continue having sex with him - since you don't find him attractive.

Your H was there when you needed him, and gave you what you needed. Return the favor. Give him what he needs. The freedom to find someone who DOES find him attractive.

Oh, and while you are married to H, do not have ANY contact with OM. Incredibly disrespectful to your H. The next time your have any communication with OM, you should be divorced. Maybe that will help you decide what you need to do next.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

MEM11363 said:


> Gus,
> 
> While your advice is generally sound, I think a quick psychological MRI is in order.
> 
> ...


It's actually _Admiral_ Lee Sound.

Get it straight, MEM.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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