# All is Quiet on the Wetern Front...



## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

*All is Quiet on the Western Front...*

I have been married for over 18 years. In this period my relationship with my wife has "morphed" from being supportive to well just being. At this point neither of us wears a ring. Neither of us really wants to do anything with the other. Hell, we seldom even eat together anymore. I honestly can't remember the last time I kissed her before I left to work, or missed her while I was at work. It's been 4 weeks since we've had sex. I stopped initiating, she never does and this p*sses me off. No, I am not fat. I am in fantastic shape, and she used to tell me I was a good lover. I must be something...we have 6 kids who are thankfully stable and healthy. Financially things are ok, but not spectacular. We are sort of at a Mexican standoff. It's not good, h*ll, it's not even ok, but as there is no abuse it just sort of is.

I honestly would have no problems with divorce at this point as I generally feel unloved and unappreciated. She definitely contributes less to the relationship, and seems content with the status quo. her energy seems spent elsewhere, on friggin Facebook and what not. I would fix it if I could, but I'm done "going it alone". I have told her of my strong dissatisfaction with our marriage she is indifferent. We have both been to the same counselor. I went once and he said he would like to meet with us as a couple when my wife was ready. He said I seemed well adjusted and healthy. We had a wonderful discussion on marriage self-help books. Well it's been 3 friggin months since our meeting, WTF. I guess my wife is still not ready.

I am under the impression that my wife cheated on me at least one time in the recent past, and I am struggling with this greatly. I have never cheated on her, nor would I. Infidelity is not my style. This is probably the explanation for the 3 month interval, but I am just speculating. I have largely taken to "just doing my thing." I am up at 4 in the morning to train, home by 7:00 am to shower, gone again by 7:40am, and work until 7:30 or so in the evening. My days are full, and my practice is flourishing. I have even began the ground work on writing a book. She is a stay at home mom. Our youngest is 4 1/2, and the rest are all in school. I sense she is "bored", and lacks purpose in her life. Her stepfather/dad died about two years ago and she hasn't been the same since. 

One of my Dr. friends who I felt "really had it all together", recently stunned my by telling me he was leaving his wife. I suspect/have heard that another person was involved...his side not her side. This trap is all too easy to fall into, so I have really limited my outside contacts with women. I don't want to be that person to my kids. I feel my hand is played. I am done making concessions at this point. I won't leave her for another woman, but I have tried to make it clear that I will leave her. This loss of security has not been helpful for her, or our relationship, but I felt it was necessary that she grasp the seriousness of our situation. I am currently of the opinion she needs to fight for me. So far, all is quiet on the western front. Any ideas on what to do next?


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

*Re: All is Quiet on the Western Front...*

I guess I'll write my own response as all really is quiet on the reply front as well. *Let's see. Hmmm, well not talking to her as you go through your day isn't working to well. I'll admit it does cut down on the arguments, but at what cost? * 

*Have you planned anything together?* *She's going to AZ this weekend for a Halloween reception at some obscure cousin's place with 4 of the kids. They have already been married for over a month and you have only seen this person 4 or so times in the 21 plus years you've known your wife, so you don't want to go. I see, and you feel it's a waste of both time and resources so you're not attending. You feel if she is indifferent to you, how are you supposed to care about some distant relative of hers. I see, and both of your high schoolers have events they have to participate at. How fortuitous. She's upset though, which is ironic since in your opinion she'd rather you didn't go anyway. Interesting.*

People don't try this at home. Ok, so the flow of consciousness thing only works in Freshman composition classes. How about this. I have been posting various threads since August, has anyone seen anything here that is worth saving? I used to think there was, but now there is only pain. I just want out.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

ok i'll bite...



lastinline said:


> Wow, I stand corrected. Friday night she had a wonderful dinner ready when I got home. She did say that she was "running behind" all Friday morning, so she decided to "cut out her gym time" as she had slept in. I was impressed as this hasn't exactly been the norm and complemented her warmly for both dinner and being selfless. Saturday morning was "very nice", but I am not going to write about any of that. I then went to practice with her blessing. We spent the afternoon together shopping for this and that and it was pleasant. No shopping always sucks, but I enjoyed her company. This evening, she had a "girl party" to attend at a friend's house as an old acquaintance of hers had flown in from Peru, or some other ungodly place. She invited me, but I told her as no one's husband was going to be there except for the hostess's, that she should just enjoy herself with her lady friends. All in all a complete 360 from my post last Saturday when our entire world fell apart following a funeral. The moral...there is always hope. Here is to one day at a time. Hmm, I sound like an addict. I guess I am, a love addict.


This was 2 months ago..."Here is to one day at a time."...how did things derail so quickly? Was it her actions? Yours? Not enough time, patience invested, one day at a time? This was actually very encouraging to read but you quickly shifted to the 'do what I need to do' mode and it seems you react quickly to something your wife does that bothers you instead of focusing on the positive things that were helping you to move forward with her.

Is the thought that she may have been unfaithful in the back of your mind, preventing you from fully investing in her again? Can you spend down-time with her, laughing, light (non-work, etc.) conversations? You know what her needs are...to have you emotionally there for her....if you are not, she can get her needs filled with facebook, girls nights, trips...but it will push her further away if you choose not to plug in. You can choose to plug in or decide that you will not unless she magically changes into a different person for you...One of these options has a much higher success rate than the other.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

*Re: All is Quiet on the Western Front...*

Thanks for your response swedish. I can quickly explain what my hang up is. My wife physically ignores me. I know she craves emotional contact, but I have the same need for physcial contact. Are my needs any less important than hers? I think not. God, as my witness, I cannot connect to her without intimacy, it sort of re-glues my soul to hers. I wish I wasn't this way, but I am. I'm not a monster, I'm simply a man. 

I would be terrified of "hooking up" with anyone on the side. The emotional connection is way to strong with me, and I would find it difficult to have sex with anyone I didn't care deeply about. Apparently, it's not so with her. I guess that's why I can't get past her infidelity. It's because of what that union represents to me. She was better for a period following her surgery. Perhaps because I had to attend to her, perhaps because she was dependent on me. Well, she is well now, and things are pretty much as they were. 

Of course, as I have stated I am still wounded by her infidelity. I take offense to your "she can get her emotional needs met elsewhere", statement. I could just as easily get my physical needs met elsewhere too, but supposedly we are/were in a committed relationship. Besides, allow me to reiterate, sex to me is more than just a physical act. Physical affection is the primary way I receive love. If she wants this marriage she needs to make the next move. She needs to demonstrate to me that she is willing to fight for my love. I can think of several conferences that need attending, a couple of tournaments I'd like to compete in etc. In the meantime, I am just mentally separating myself from her. Hopefully, it will make our eventual parting that much easier. I wish her the best with her next relationship. I am the best thing she'll ever have had.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Sorry, did not mean to offend you. I fully understand you could get your needs met elsewhere and respect that you could not cross that line and am not in any way suggesting that as a good option. This was more of an observation on my part that if she's getting her needs in other ways, she will lack motivation to get them fulfilled from you, and you have admitted in another post (sorry to lazy to search for it, so may not have this right) that you are not always an easy-going, laid back person to be around.

If she wants this marriage she needs to make the next move = you giving up, in my opinion. You cannot control what she will or will not do, only what you are willing to do or not do and pulling away and doing your own thing will get the result you are looking for, make the eventual parting easier. Just be sure the eventual parting is what you really want...if you want intimacy, her, your marriage I believe you need to drive it and put the effort in towards making it happen.

When my husband strayed, I did not sit back and think 'you better really prove you love me now' but rather did a self-assessment as to what would drive him there and what I needed to change. It's a lot of pride to swallow and quite honestly if he did not reciprocate I probably would not have endured in the long-term, but I don't regret starting with myself, risking feeling like a total a-hole if I was hurt again but our marriage is worth it.


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## Xusan (Nov 25, 2008)

Hi last,

If I were in your wife's shoes, I would be floored to hear you say you didn't want to go to the Halloween thing, but you would accompany her because you wanted to spend time with her. I think you would be similarly drop jawed if your wife attended one of your tournaments, or even a training session, just to show her support. If you went to the Halloween event and made a good effort to enjoy yourself with your wife, maybe she would reciprocate. There's a strong possibility that she won't, as well. At least you'll know it wasn't a lack of effort on your part.

I also need physical contact. It's the way I give and receive love as well. For a long while, my husband was the one who witheld that from me. I gave him love in the way he needed, even though he was being cruel and selfish. It was hard and painful and lonely. He eventually opened up and started accepting my touch, even initiating, at times. We still have major obstacles, but I think we're going through a period of forward momentum.

Are you at a point where you feel you've done everything you possibly can to reestablish a connection to your wife? I think your answer to his will drive your next actions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

I think when you say, "if she's not going to give me what I want then I won't give her what she wants" you've pretty much decided that you want things to end, but you want to feel that it is all her fault.

Do you have concrete evidence she cheated on you? 

I find it interesting that you can say things like :

"In this period my relationship with my wife has "morphed" from being supportive to well just being. At this point neither of us wears a ring. Neither of us really wants to do anything with the other. Hell, we seldom even eat together anymore. I honestly can't remember the last time I kissed her before I left to work, or missed her while I was at work."

to complaining about her being able to have sex with someone without feeling.

Where's the feeling in your relationship? Frankly, I'm surprised it has only been 4 weeks that you've not had sex, actually.

Do you see how you describe the relationship and then you get upset when you don't get what you want first?

Women NEED that emotional connection. If you're not going to be there for her, I guarantee you won't get what you want from her. If you're going to look too much at fair, you're going to have to concede the marriage. If you want something that can work longer-term, you are going to have to go back to where you were 2 months ago.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

last: I've followed you around the boards..I understand your commitment and loyalty. I have the same fierce sense of right and wrong. 

You state things...important things as a "matter of fact" on your thread. However, these facts must deeply hurt you. You state that you think your W may have had an affair. You want her to fight for you. You are not important enough. This is damaging, I suppose, to your self esteem. It's ironic how you can have seemingly have it "together" but not really. 

Folks were SHOCKED that my H and I are divorcing. We are the perfect family....

It sounds like you are the edge of giving up. I agree with you...no affairs. End it and then move on....

If you felt that you cannot do anything else...then maybe it's time to move on. Maybe separation...time and space. Sometimes people can reconnect when they realize what they have lost.

My H is beginning to open his eyes....it's been 1 year since our crisis and 3 months separated. I was praying to God to "change him." I started praying specifically..."to soften his heart and put dreams and events in front of him that would open his eye and heart. " God has put these events in front of him. He is lifting out of the fog. Last night, he invited himself over to cook dinner at my house. Complete with an "I love you" and hug. 

This is significant change....will it be enough to stop a divorce (he filed mid Sept). Probably not. I've accepted that this will probably happen. I won't quit loving him. I will move on. However, the last few weeks have been quite interesting.

Often we get so hung up on leaving and escaping the relationship as if THAT'S IT! It can be but it also can be a time to reevaluate our relationship. It's preferable to work on the relationship inside the marriage. Sometimes you can't.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

*Re: All is Quiet on the Western Front...*

There is tremendous feeling dobo, unfortunately most of it at this time is negative. When I am hurt, I compartmentalize and I detach. I still do love my wife, as much as I am capable of loving anything. However, I have been hurt, and now I am wary. I am not sure of her intentions. I feel like a paycheck, and little else. I have pulled back, and I am seeing if she will pursue. She makes little signs, but I suspect she too is wondering WTF is up with this guy. She knows I won't divorce her, and apparently she won't divorce me either. We are in limbo, waiting for the next shoe to drop. Anyway time for practice.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Since neither of you will divorce, you're kind of stuck. You can pull away and she might be fine with it because she knows you're not going to go anywhere. But does she really want a non-marriage?

What will you do if she doesn't pursue?

Without that trump card of dissolution of the marriage, there's no sting if things don't change. There's only despair. 

Does she love you?


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

Great question dobo. I too wonder if she still loves me. She regularly tells me she does, but I am an actions more than words sort of guy, and "I'm not feelin' the love", so to speak. We really do need to talk. I just don't have enough energy emotionally for "another fight." It shouldn't be that way, but it is. It seems we both have our scars from this relationship. I just can't take the dogs, work, valley thing one more time, so I guess I'm stuck with "despair".


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Try writing?

I'm sorry, LIL. I know you're suffering.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

I have dobo. Here is what I wrote her shortly before I began posting on this site. It made no difference what so ever. Perhaps I wasn't clear. You tell me...

------,

Take today and consider all of the choices before you, I am not issuing an ultimatum or trying to coerce you. I am only stating a simple truth from my perspective, and that truth is, I am not a priority in your life. You may mistake this letter as a juvenile attempt to force my will upon you. Do not, for I will not. I respect your autonomy. However, I cannot tolerate the current state of affairs. Emotional and physical intimacy are not separate items. They are the identical item, just expressed differently. We seldom even talk, and rarer still laugh anymore together. Oh, do not get me wrong. We frequently exchange information about what kid did what, or that such and such is leaking on the sidewalk. However, this is nothing that wouldn't be readily offered up to a acquaintance at lunch, or a simple repair person on your doorstep. There is no exchange of deeper information about what you long for, or are afraid of, what you aspire to be, or what makes you feel alive. You frequently tell me you love me, but you don't ever touch me, not even back pats without my initiation. It doesn't match up. There is absolutely no emotional or physical intimacy in our relationship. I don't feel loved and haven't for quite some time. I know you are aware of this, but for whatever reason you have opted not to act. They say love is patient. I have been patient. Perhaps you are tired, well I am tired too. Perhaps you are frustrated, well I am that as well. Perhaps you are indifferent, well that is simply not acceptable from my end. Pushing me away only serves to push me away, and sadly I have reached the point where I am beginning to question the logic in returning. I have feelings too, and continued rejection from someone who supposedly "loves you" hurts. I have composed this letter many times, but I have always deleted it prior to sending it to you. Today, I think I shall send it. So please, take today and consider all of the choices before you... and than decide.

your husband,

-----


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

There is also a follow up letter dobo. I actually feel I nailed the tone and tempo of our relationship better in the sequel, but I digress. She even shared the letters with some of her very "enlightened" friends who basically informed her that others opinions "don't matter". They do, especially if that other person is your husband, and he is slowly burning through any religious and moral restraints that are keeping him from filing for divorce. LIL


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

You told her how you feel but you haven't given her any specific requirements to fulfill. This lack of desire to "impose your will" is the problem.

You have needs. State them clearly. 

But then if she chooses not to meet them, you have to be willing to do something about it -- there has to be a sting. She knows there is none. She chooses to ignore your statements because she knows she can.

Tell her what you want as though you were writing out a requirements document for a contractor. That's a starting point. What you want and then ask her, in writing, to tell you what she's willing to provide. Negotiate.

If she won't negotiate, I'm sorry but I see no choice but to leave. Or tell her you're going to get a girlfriend. Those aren't the kinds of things I like to see happen but your wife is complacent because she can be. She either doesn't care or she doesn't feel any urgency to take your needs into account. Well, you have to wake her up with a shock. The way things are cannot continue. 

Be very clear. Short sentences. Bullet points. 

If you don't get very clear and very to the point with her, she can always claim that you didn't make her understand how important this was to you. And you'll always wonder if you could have done better.

I need :

- Sex 3X per week, mimimum.
- Physical closeness in other ways -- hand holding, cuddling on the couch, hugs
- Deep kisses, not just pecks on the cheek
- Time alone with you - dates or just going out, but time with just us where we focus only on us
- public displays of affection
- meaningful, deep conversation about what you feel, think, want, desire and I'd like to share my thoughts/feelings with you as well
and if we have a difficult time coming up with things to discuss, we can choose books to read together to discuss
- shared interests -- I'd like you to go with me to X, Y and Z and I would like to accompany you to A, B and C
- solo vacations twice per year, of at least 4 days duration each

Stuff like that.


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## New Beginnings (Sep 9, 2009)

LiL, I'm going to give you some advise in a different approach than above, because I think I see where your relationship is and I see some things that are similar to my own past relationship. 

I haven't seen anything that shows concrete evidence of an affair on your wifes part...yet. So lets assume that she has been faithful to this point, unless you can demonstrate enough evidence otherwise. Let's conclude that your wife is NOT getting her emotional needs met by you right now, fair assumption. She might very well feel she hasn't been for some time now, just as you feel your not getting your physical needs met by her. Simply put, you have different love languages and I would venture to guess, neither of you are even aware of this fact. So she may possibly be getting to the point of an EA on Facebook, or maybe not. She could just be connecting with friends. For now lets assume she is innocent here. However, those emotional needs MUST be filled by you or as stated previously, she will likely go further down the road she is with disconnecting with you. This you must fix, not her. This is your responsibility to her as her husband.

I think your missing what is going on with your wife in HER life. You stated six children. Do you have no idea how physically, mentally, and emotionally taxing this is on her? My god, I couldn't imagine pulling her burden around all day with caring for those children. Sure you have your own work responsibilities, hobbies, and even writing your book. But did you think for a second that she might feel alone in her parenting role? Wether it's accurately perceived by you or not. The fact is she likely feels unappreciated herself, not just you.

From what I have seen, I wonder what you have done to help respark your relationship with her. She has needs that your not fulfilling and in turn she probably has shut down herself and you just didn't know or understand why. To me and likely the others here, it seems pretty obvious. Since it appears we're both business owners, I will put it to you in a way that makes sense to you. In your business you get out of it what you put into it. If you go half a$$ed in being successful, you get the same results out of it. So go back to looking at what your putting into the relationship emotionally. You've said it yourself, Emotional support and physical support are the same thing to you, just expressed in different ways. I don't totally agree with this statement but I get what you are saying and what that is coming from. You and I share the same "love language", that being physical touch. Your wife's is probably completely different and you need to see that. It's why your marriage is breaking down right now.

If you can be open minded and refocus your efforts and especially your opinions on this, you might be pleasantly surprised at the results. Go get a book at your library called The Five Love Languages, by Gary Chapman. Be open minded and read it, then think about how it relates to your own situation. You might be astonished at what you discover. Take it as a personal challenge to put back into the relationship what apparently hasn't been happening for sometime now by either of you. Romance her, treat her as an equal in every way, connect with her emotionally, and most importantly, take control and MAKE THE EFFORT. Show her you love her like you used to. Don't take everything so black and white.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

Thanks for your input dobo. You have been a tremendous help. However, I am not prepared to do the Bob Barker "Let's Make a Deal" thing. The thought of bartering with my wife doesn't sit well with me on prinicple. I know, I'm picky. I'm sure that's part of the problem, but WTF, I work my a$$ of for her and my family. All I'm asking for is that she "meet me in the middle". As for the "girlfriend", she's basically said go and get one at times when I have "pestered" her for sex. It's a hollow statement, she knows me well enough to realize I couldn't, but it shows again in my opinion how callous she has became regarding me. What frustrates me the most is that I have multiple outlets for friendship, but as my wife she is my only legitimate outlet for sex. Like it or dislike it, but to my knowledge that is ultimatley the only thing that separates that relationship from any other relationship I can have with anyone else. 

We are very different people I'm afraid. I live with a strict code of honor, discipline, and integrity and she is far more "situational" with her values. She is a gentle spirit, and she has a capacity to "love" in the sort of fluffy way I never could. However, when things "get hard", she's not capable of "slogging it out". She quits. She was raised in a fine home in a beautiful city on the coast. She did well in high school, but crappy in college. I was the opposite. I was raised in a friggin trailer after my Dad died. I became a Dr. and well she didn't really become anything. She's as smart as I am, but her work ethic is crummy. I feel she's "quit on us".

Part of me is bitter because I completely restructured my life around her. I turned down the commission I always wanted when I finished my undergrad. I could have had a medical appointment for my follow on schooling, but we felt it was important that I "was there" with my kids. It was and still is the right decision. That's why I'm still "coming home", my kids need me. I no longer wear a uniform, but I easily could. 

She's pissed our oldest son wants to be an Army Ranger, but it's what he grew up with, and he is a fine young man. The fact that I have taken it upon myself to physically train him has created friction between my wife and myself. I would like to tell you she doesn't use sex as a weapon, but she uses it to hurt me like I would use my foot, knee, elbow, or fist to hurt an opponent. Sadly, that's what we are...opponents, rivals, adversaries. My how we have fallen.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

The difference between my husband and your wife is that when I brought up getting a BF he said, "OK" but then he stepped up and made it so I didn't "need" to. We're not at long enough to know that I believe that the change is permanent... OTOH, I also don't think I would get a BF. It isn't workable.

But the question is, would I? 

I think you need to call her on her offer. You can even fake it for a while. I'm sure there are people who would help you with the ruse. Is that really unfair? I don't think so. She gave you the opening. She doesn't believe you would and that's where she draws her strength. Is that right? If she loved you, would she do that?

Love, you have to call her on it. 

Your son, that's a different matter. And one she's going to have to deal with. You didn't make him a Ranger. You made him a man. What he chooses to do with his life is about him. 

I'm extremely strong willed and I can tell you that I couldn't force my daughters to be what I want them to be. Oh, if only I could! (At least the older one! Of course she's only 14 but damn, I only want "college bound" in the description!)

Risk. You have nothing to lose.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

Hello New Beginnings, first thank you for your advice. I don't have concrete evidence she cheated. I didn't actually witness the blessed event. I had a crazy wife come to my clinic on a rainy October day about a year ago telling me that she was having an affair with her husband. They have since divorced, but that's as "good as I got" for evidence. She denies everything. Says they only played racquetball and such. I hope it's true. She really could have done better. She kind of went "slummin" if you ask me. The guy was old and fat. Personally, I don't do things alone with women I'm not related to, appearances and all, but that's me.

As for a mom of six, I'm the father of six, and I center our family. I do the major projects, teach science, edit papers etc. I am also the hammer and handle discipline, although it's seldom an issue. Our kids are good. She stays home with a 4 1/2 year old, and I run two clinics. I'm almost sure my day is harder. 

She does very little for me. For instance, I cooked my own friggin dinner tonight. She went to her music workshop. Nice. She'll probably be home at 11:30 or so. I don't think I'll wait up. All I want from her is a choice. I would like to keep our marriage... just not as it is. Her problem is she wants everything but won't do anything to keep it. It has to be easy. It has to be free. I am sure her day has it's trials, but welcome to life. For the record, I also am big on conversation too. We used to have wonderful discussions, and I loved nothing more than to make her laugh. I could talk a rabbit's ears off. She was my best friend. I miss that. I gave up a lot for her, and I am tired of her whole mid-"wife"/life crisis thing. If she wants out, I love her enough to let her leave. If she wants in, I love her enough to let her stay, but she's not doing anything but sitting the fence. Sometimes hot, sometimes cold, sometimes indifferent. I just want her to decide. I think I deserve that.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

I would like to thank everyone for their insight. You have been a great help to me during a dark time in my life. I think I am going to hang up the posting/thread thing. I feel I have said or wrote as it were, all I have to say. At this point now, I simply need to "man up" and make a choice one way or the other. I am going to have some of these conversations with my wife now that I have had the opportunity to "think out loud" some of my more pressing issues with our marriage. Hopefully, this exercise will have provided the needed direction for our relationship. Once again, I appreciate this forum, and I am truly grateful that it exists. Thank you. Lastinline


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

*Re: All is Quiet on the Western Front...*

Have you asked her some core questions:
- Does she want to be married to you? 
- If not, why not
- If so, why

If the primary reasons she wants to stay are kids/financial security - you are baked and it is better to leave. 

I fully supported my stay at home mom wife for 19 years - but if she had cheated/froze me out of bed - we would have been done. If she has some legitimate issues with you - then it is solely her responsibility to make the effort to address them constructively with you. My guess is if you ask her what has happened in the bedroom she will give you the "you are not perfect" response. It is not worded that way. It is worded as a request for you to do more housework, cooking etc. And that is simply to get you to make her life easier. It will change nothing in the bedroom. No man has ever changed a broken sex life by doing more housework. But almost every wife who has lost desire for her man, tries to play the game of - you don't help me enough. 









lastinline said:


> I guess I'll write my own response as all really is quiet on the reply front as well. *Let's see. Hmmm, well not talking to her as you go through your day isn't working to well. I'll admit it does cut down on the arguments, but at what cost? *
> 
> *Have you planned anything together?* *She's going to AZ this weekend for a Halloween reception at some obscure cousin's place with 4 of the kids. They have already been married for over a month and you have only seen this person 4 or so times in the 21 plus years you've known your wife, so you don't want to go. I see, and you feel it's a waste of both time and resources so you're not attending. You feel if she is indifferent to you, how are you supposed to care about some distant relative of hers. I see, and both of your high schoolers have events they have to participate at. How fortuitous. She's upset though, which is ironic since in your opinion she'd rather you didn't go anyway. Interesting.*
> 
> People don't try this at home. Ok, so the flow of consciousness thing only works in Freshman composition classes. How about this. I have been posting various threads since August, has anyone seen anything here that is worth saving? I used to think there was, but now there is only pain. I just want out.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

"No man has ever changed a broken sex life by doing more housework. "

I don't think that's true. But it has to be caught early. In this case, I think you're right. But a guy that starts to help out more especially when the kids are tiny, he WILL get more lovin'.

Good luck, LIL. Let us know how it goes.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

I don't think she complains that he doesn't do enough, more that he isn't there enough...I think she is missing an emotional connection with him but not making much effort on her end to correct it...and when she goes places and he declines the invitiation cuz it's 'not his thing' she probably feels rejected and lacks motivation to try...just my guess...

good luck lastinline, I really hope your marriage turns around for all 8 of you


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

OK - you caught me exaggerating. You cannot do way less then your fair share, infuriate your spouse and expect to have a good marriage and/or sex life. 

I simply meant that very often the request for more help around the house has zero connection to the real problem - a lack of desire. 

But clearly that is not the problem here. And I don't think the lack of time commitment is either. I think she simply takes him totally for granted and doesn't feel like exerting herself to make him happy. He is already hugely exerting himself for the family. To ask more of him, when there is already a workload imbalance, is simply not even close to fair. 













dobo said:


> "No man has ever changed a broken sex life by doing more housework. "
> 
> I don't think that's true. But it has to be caught early. In this case, I think you're right. But a guy that starts to help out more especially when the kids are tiny, he WILL get more lovin'.
> 
> Good luck, LIL. Let us know how it goes.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

*Re: All is Quiet on the Western Front...*

Well we met tonight in a public place. I had sent her an e-mail earlier in the day saying we "needed to talk." Ahhh, those infamous words. I was clear in the message I had no intention of fighting, and I wrote that I simply wanted "us" to discuss where our lives were heading. I told her when we arrived that I still loved her, but I couldn't accept our relationship the way it was. I said there are only two choices with something that's broken: Fix it or throw it away. I offered to attend counseling with her, but she wasn't interested. She said "it's a waste of money". I wasn't too surprised at her statement, but I responded, "well so is divorce." I suggested arbitration as a means to reduce the cost, as with the housing market what it is our net worth is trashed. Plus the last thing I want, is one more wealthy lawyer in the world at my expense. She just started to cry at that point, and she got up.

I assumed she was going to the ladies room to compose herself, but she left. As she is about 7 weeks s/p ACL reconstruction, I was shocked she decided to "hoof it". However, she was very specific regarding where we went, so I am assuming she had a friend close by. It's now 2:27 am and she's not home. I'm still "hopped up" on the six shots of espresso I had while I was waiting for her. 

My family is supposed to leave in 2 hours for Arizona, I guess I'll see her then. I think everything turned out for the best. I have closure. After 18 years of marriage though, I would have thought she would have at least "stayed to talk". I was pleasant and calm through our whole discussion, and I tried to express my desire to "shake up" and salvage our marriage. I was firm though that things had to change, and when she balked I calmly transitioned to talk of divorce. I don't know what else I could have done. I guess I will just get started on forgiving her and moving on with my life. LIL


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

Well she came home early this morning, about 4:20 to be exact. I am up early every morning, and when the kitchen lights came on the sound and light was enough to awaken me. I asked her why she left, and she said she left because she was understandably sad. I inquired as to whether or not she registered the part where I said I loved her and wanted to fix our marriage, and she turned down my request for counseling. She limply replied she didn't believe me that I was serious. I then inquired as to where she went, and she said she walked to some bar I'd never heard of which was like 2 miles away. She said she had a drink and talked to some woman whose name she couldn't recall. To that I replied that I didn't believe her, and asked what she really did. I guess it was possible she had money in her pocket. However, she only ordered a water, and didn't even stay long enough to finish that. I also drove last night, and her purse and cell were in her vehicle when I got home. Also the fact that she was able to arrive within 10 minutes of when she was supposed to leave to AZ suggests to me she was driven home. The woman has a great sense of direction, but a crappy sense of time. My impression is that she's cheating. To be honest, though she has the audacity to talk that she's somehow not "good enough" for me. Which in my estimation could only possibly be true if she was cheating. I'm going to talk to the bank today and see what I can do about our home. I'll honor the residual debt, and I'll probably take a 50k bath, but I want them to know that I not looking to "stick them" with yet another short sale. Too bad, I really liked my house. I really loved my family, and I felt we could have made it if she just would have been willing to work. I forgive you Karin. I forgive you. I just can't live with you. I just can't love you as a husband, not anymore. LIL


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

What a tough 24 hours! Alot has happened. Keep moving forward LIL...you don't sound angry or bitter (good sign). You seem to be thinking clear. We sound like similiar personalities-take care of business!

She may come around LIL...this is her WAKE UP call. She'll either get it or not. Don't be surprised if she asks for another chance.

If she is cheating...well she may have been doing this for awhile considering her behavior in your previous threads. Of course OM involved will never restore your marriage. Plus, this explains the not wanting marriage counseling. People who want to save their marriage...will do ANYTHING to save their marriage.


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