# She makes me cry.



## insanelygreat

Good morning all,

Let me start off by giving you some background. My wife and I married three years ago and are very, very young. She is 21 and I am 23. We've been living together for more than four years. Like most young couples, we were extremely excited when we first moved in together and couldn't wait to spend time with each other. We have had great times together and love each other very much.

Fast forward three years later, here's the situation. I have no control over my own life. She has become this controlling person and I feel like there's no escape. She is extremely jealous and micromanages me at all levels. I am not allowed to:
-Go to public places by myself without being interrogated about the women I saw, if they were attractive, etc.
-Listen to female artists 
-Have a Facebook account
-Have a twitter account
-Watch movies in which women are present, say I like a movie in which a woman is present, read books in which women are present (e.g. A Severed Head)
-Obviously no female friends or acquaintances (my two best friends happened to be women before we married, she refused to even meet them in person and have not talked to them in over three years)
-etc...

My last year in college was hell, since it involved meeting in groups and working with other class members to work in projects.
We tried therapy, and the therapist sided with me and tried to make her understand I am an adult and I can make some of my own decisions. We have no kids, she has cheated on me twice. I love her. Am I an idiot?
Also, I happen to be a really emotional guy. She has made me cry a lot. 
Please help me.


----------



## Open up now let it all go

Holy ****, and I thought my partner could be a bit controlling/posessive/jealous now and then. I'm not sure where to start but it's time to completely turn around and turn the marriage upside down. You're being treated worse than a little child.


----------



## insanelygreat

@open Yeah and the list goes on. I am really not being able to be myself and I feel her attitude is slowing me down intellectually. For example, no library time for me. Her mom sent us some magazines last week, taste of home for her, esquire for me. I was flipping through pages next to her and she ripped every page that had a girl in it.


----------



## Open up now let it all go

There's tons of posters that have all sorts of self-help "man-up" books and links. But what you're describing goes a bit further than anything I've seen so far on this board. I think it's borderline abusive what she's doing. This is no way of living - forgive me for saying that. I respect marriage and LTR commitment a lot but you need to get out of this situation. ASAP.


----------



## insanelygreat

Thank you. I appreciate your input. After one of our big fights we even went to the court house to get a divorce, only to find out there's a lot of paperwork and stages you have to go through before making it happen. It was after this that we decided to go to therapy. I feel this is partly my fault for letting it escalate.


----------



## BjornFree

Do you have kids young man? Why do you love her if you do at all?


----------



## insanelygreat

No kids. No shared assets. Don´t own a house.


----------



## Open up now let it all go

She's waaaaay to immature to be married (or even be in a relationship) and you've let her walk all over you.


----------



## BjornFree

Now, its simple. Either you're going to be with the same woman 10 years from now where you'll be saddled with a lot more responsibility, a couple of runts in the litter, a house maybe, and your wife 10 years older, much more cranky, more controlling and jealous because her fertile age is coming to an end. 

Or you can leave now, finish the complicated(its only complicated on the surface) paperwork. Finish college, get yourself a nice job, build your assets up. Buy a nice car, a nice house maybe and some nice threads with the money that would otherwise go in maintaining an ungrateful and controlling wife.

Isn't life so simple when you break it down to tiny bits and pieces?

Edit: There's also a high chance of you meeting a more beautiful and mature woman.


----------



## Dollystanford

she's showing an incredible level of immaturity - this is only going to get worse if you don't stop it now
what are you scared of? is she violent towards you? Do you want to spend the rest of your life like this?


----------



## insanelygreat

Try and fix it or divorce?
I am scared about being so young and being divorced. I know it sounds stupid but that's the truth. I am also concerned about her feelings. I want to make her understand she is hurting me.


----------



## Open up now let it all go

I've had the same problem with my partner (I'm of a similar age of you so that might help) that started about 3 years ago. She somehow got into a depression and had a lot of unresolved issues from a previous relationship. Anyway it brought a lot of issues concerning jealousness, smothering, posessiveness etc into the relationship to the point where I felt uncomfortable even going to friends etc. After about 1.5 years of that I came to my senses and realized I was damaging myself by not changing the situation. Was already planning on breaking it off till she suddenly turned around and things improved. I was lucky with that but even my dear girlfriend nowadays says: "why the hell did you put up with that?" One of the reasons was that I cared about her and she was so deep in the **** that I couldn't get it over my heart to abandon her. But in hindsight, I should've handled that much different. I should've been there but at the same time be assertive and tell her this is no way of living in a relationship. Either start working on helping yourself or we're done. Your mental health comes first and in this kind of situation it will dent and scar you...


----------



## Mrs. T

insanelygreat said:


> Try and fix it or divorce?
> *I am scared about being so young and being divorced*. I know it sounds stupid but that's the truth. I am also concerned about her feelings. I want to make her understand she is hurting me.


I would be scared about being so young and so MISERABLE...it will only get worse. Do you want to spend the rest of your life like this? 

She cheated on you twice and has the audacity to tell you what movies you can watch or what books to read? Should be the other way around....


----------



## Mavash.

You aren't doing her any favors by enabling bad behavior. Her behavior is abusive and you're allowing it to happen. You have the right to freedom as everyone does. I know you're young and you love her but don't you love yourself?

And the fact that she's cheated on you? OMG you can't look at women but she can be with other men? What kind of effed up double standard is that?


----------



## Adex

This is a classic example of why men have to be the alpha in the relationship.

OP, you have let her have too much power over you. You need to lessen the Beta and man up tremendously in order to take back your relationship to where it will make you happy.


----------



## insanelygreat

I know this varies personally, but how much "freedom" is ok? I know I have none right now, but what is too much?

----

Thanks to those asking Do you want to spend the rest of your life like this? Sadly, I've never even thought about this, and no, I don't want to. I am just trying to figure things out.


----------



## WyshIknew

Mavash. said:


> You aren't doing her any favors by enabling bad behavior. Her behavior is abusive and you're allowing it to happen. You have the right to freedom as everyone does. I know you're young and you love her but don't you love yourself?
> 
> And the fact that she's cheated on you? OMG you can't look at women but she can be with other men? What kind of effed up double standard is that?


:iagree:

Hell yeah!


----------



## Open up now let it all go

insanelygreat said:


> I know this varies personally, but how much "freedom" is ok? I know I have none right now, but what is too much?
> 
> ----
> 
> Thanks to those asking Do you want to spend the rest of your life like this? Sadly, I've never even thought about this, and no, I don't want to. I am just trying to figure things out.





insanelygreat said:


> -Go to public places by myself without being interrogated about the women I saw, if they were attractive, etc.
> -Listen to female artists
> -Have a Facebook account
> -Have a twitter account
> -Watch movies in which women are present, say I like a movie in which a woman is present, read books in which women are present (e.g. A Severed Head)


This is all ridiculous and unacceptable. Some people will argue about the female friend issue so I'm not going to burn my hands on that one...


----------



## insanelygreat

What does man up tremendously mean?
Screaming back at her? Threatening her? Applying some pre-conceived societal rules that dictate the way a man should behave?


----------



## Dollystanford

I missed that she cheated on you twice
you know what? get out of this relationship right now, you have the right not to be miserable and be with someone who respects you

this chick is, as we say over here, taking the piss


----------



## Open up now let it all go

No, that just puts you on the same level. Man-up means being above her. Stop letting her tell you how to live your life. You're a grown up adult for god's sake. Go enjoy your hobbies, do things with your friends, listen to the music you like, watch the movies you like and (stressed) work on your study and don't let her slow you down on that. Just do it - she can scream, fight, argue whatever but if you just do it then what is she going to do about it?

I think that's a good start.


----------



## Mavash.

insanelygreat said:


> I know this varies personally, but how much "freedom" is ok? I know I have none right now, but what is too much?


Men have fought wars for their freedom.

You have the right to live your life. To have time together with her and time away. Unless you're gone every night or spending time in strip clubs and bars trying to pick up women or cheat it's never too much.

You have the right to go to work, to spend time with friends, to watch movies, to go to the library, to read whatever you want, to watch whatever you want, etc. Nobody should have this much control over another human being.


----------



## MrsOldNews

Your wife has serious issues. She needs to go to IC and get better. Or you need to divorce her. She is acting crazy to put it as nicely as I can. Do you really want to spend the rest of your life with a woman who is emotionally chocking the life out of you? 

If you don't want to live like this you're best bet is to tell her to get in IC and work in herself (give her a timeframe to start IC) if she doesn't start IC then you leave. Give her a consequence for not going to IC and then follow through with it if she doesn't go. 

It may be very very hard to cut her off like that. But the sadness you will feel will pale in comparison to how unhappy you'll be with yourself and your marriage if to stay with her and she doesn't care to improve her crazy insecurities. 

If she won't improve her behavior then it just proves she doesn't respect you or care about your happiness. Do you really want a lifelong partner who's 

1. Excessively controlling
2. Incredibly insecure
3. Makes you cry on a regular basis
4. Doesn't respect you
5. Only cares how things affect her life not yours
6. Extremely jealous 
7. Is a repeat cheater
8. Very immature even for a 21 year old
9. And to top it off doesn't let you do things like listen to female musicians (which is downright crazy) 

By this little list does she seem like a woman any man would want in their life?

Does she should like good mother material?

Does she even sound like someone you would want as a friend?

And lastly does she sound like a loving partner who puts your needs before her own? Someone you could comfortably grow old with? Someone you're proud to call your wife?


----------



## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

Whoa! The list goes on? Your life should not of stopped once you married. You should not be living in a prison of hell like this.

This type of control is abuse. My ex h treats his current wife this way. He could not control me. I'm an adult and I'm not to be "told" what to do or how to run my life. This is definitely not normal per say.

My husband and I did make an agreement of no friendships with the opposite sex. It's worked out well. We do not control each other lives. Your wife takes control on a whole new level. I'd stop her now, today! If she doesn't like it and trust you, she can leave.

The insecurity of your wife is crazy. She has major trust issues and needs therapy and a way to build her self esteem. Good luck.


----------



## Gaia

She clearly doesnt give a rats azz about your feelings OP. After all she seems to enjoy seeing you suffer, she treats you like a child, and she disrespects you by cheating on you. The only way you can show her how bad she hurt you is by leaving. Imo her behavior isnt borderline abusive.... Its outright abuse. She is mentally and emotionally abusing you.

Only a woman who treats you with dignity and respect is worth worshipping.... Not this woman your with now....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MrsOldNews

She is extremely jealous and micromanages me at all levels. I am not allowed to:

-Go to public places by myself without being interrogated about the women I saw, if they were attractive, etc.

This woman is crazy insecure!!! Any woman who is emotionally healthy would not put you through this. You should make this a boundary. Tell her you will not participate in such a ridiculous conversation. And then walk away.

-Listen to female artists 

This is just plain ridiculous, how does she justify this in her head? Does she have a history of mental instability?

-Have a Facebook account
-Have a twitter account

Maybe if you misused these sites I could understand her insecurity but I'm guessing it's just her being insanely insecure again

-Watch movies in which women are present, say I like a movie in which a woman is present, read books in which women are present (e.g. A Severed Head)

Again you need to put your foot down and tell her you will watch whichever movies you like. And if she doesn't like it show her the door. Don't be a doormat!!! Be a man!!! 

-Obviously no female friends or acquaintances (my two best friends happened to be women before we married, she refused to even meet them in person and have not talked to them in over three years)

I've had close male friends for almost 20 years now, some friends I've has since kindergarten. So I understand wanting to keep your friends. But this kind of insecurity is common among women ( not wanting their man to have female friends) probably because of how many "friends" that have hooked up over the years. So I can understand her position on this one. Not that I agree with it. 

If you stay with this lunatic then you might want to buy stock in Zoloft because I'm not a mind reader but I see Years of deep depression in your future.


----------



## Starstarfish

People will say she's insecure or jealous, but - I'm wondering if all this control isn't about the fact that she's a cheater, and therefore her guilty conscious is telling her you might be one as well. 

She as no reason to change her behavior if there's no consequences - she has taken all of your freedom away, and your future career and academic potential is suffering. Then later if they do, she'll complain you don't make enough money. 

This needs to stop before you just give up and accept it, and you are still on here, years later talking about this insane dynamic.


----------



## Earl Dibbles Jr

For God's sake man, pull up yer britches, grab your balls and lead yourself right out the door.

You should be running faster than a 3 legged chicken getting chased by a frying pan.


----------



## richie33

Run and don't look back!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## costa200

> I am not allowed to:


I'm sorry... Say what? You're not allowed to? Allowed to? Come on man! Allowed to? 

She bosses you around at that point?


----------



## frootloop

You need to tell the warden you're done.

To be frank, you are being such a doormat, I doubt you'll be able to repair this - she is crazy, but you need IC to figure out why you allowed this situation to occur.

You can do this while you're divorcing to avoid wasting time - I think you could find a better wife by randomly selecting a women from the phone book.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Mavash. said:


> *You aren't doing her any favors by enabling bad behavior. Her behavior is abusive and you're allowing it to happen.*


^^^^^^
This part right here.
Human beings are basically reward oriented.
If you continue rewarding her controlling behaviour by treating her nice, then she will have no reason to stop treating you that way.
Basically your response to her behaviour is telling her that her behaviour is ok.


----------



## insanelygreat

What is IC?


----------



## Open up now let it all go

Individual Counceling.


----------



## Uptown

insanelygreat said:


> I am just trying to figure things out.


IG, if you're serious about figuring things out, I suggest you see a psychologist for a visit or two -- all by yourself -- to obtain a candid opinion on what it is you are dealing with. What concerns me most is that the behavior you're describing is that of a woman who has a great fear of abandonment -- which would explain her irrational jealousy and controlling ways. 

I therefore suggest, while you're waiting for an appointment with a psych, you read my brief description of the traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) to see if most of them sound familiar. My post is in Maybe's thread at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. If that description rings a bell, I would be glad to discuss it with you and point you to good online resources. Take care, IG.


----------



## insanelygreat

Thank you Uptown. I didn't know about such condition and every single trait applies to her personality. Now, I know she has had a rough past and her attitude is in no way excusable, but, what if I want to help her overcome this? Or should I help her by leaving? I will make an appointment with a psychologist and see what happens. In your experience, is this personality disorder "curable"?


----------



## daisygirl 41

Dollystanford said:


> I missed that she cheated on you twice
> you know what? get out of this relationship right now, you have the right not to be miserable and be with someone who respects you
> 
> this chick is, as we say over here, taking the piss


I agree with Dolly. I picked up on the cheating bit straight away. She doesn't trust you because she is a cheater and a liar so she thinks you are doing the same.
A friend of mine was in a marriage like this for 20 years. Her H was a cereal cheater, but she was the one who wasn't allowed to go anywhere or do anything. He was very controlling.

Has she made amends for her cheating? Is she transparent and accountable for HER actions? Or have her As been rug swept?

You need to be a man now and stick up for yourself. The way she is treating you is ridiculous. 
She could probably do with some intensive IC and you should both attend MC.

She is going to slowly kill any love you have for get if she carries on and she needs to know that. 
If you have no kids the. You might want to consider leaving. Even if its a trial separation. It might make her realise what she's doing.

Good luck!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BjornFree

insanelygreat said:


> Or should I help her by leaving?


Help yourself by leaving. I don't want to sound cold, but unfortunately you have little chance of this relationship improving because both of you have been playing the same roles for a long time and you've developed an unhealthy pattern in your relationship and at your age its better to leave than stay. Otherwise, eventually you'll grow disillusioned and then perhaps even cheat. Better to make an honorable exit. 

And if there's a lesson you can take away from your marriage its that you can't have a mature relationship unless you are ready for it and your wife isn't. Don't remarry till you're 30 at least.


----------



## BjornFree

Oh great!! she's cheated on you? And you are okay with that? ....Sigh.


----------



## Lyris

You're young, you have no kids...please leave. Even if she gets a bit better, I don't think she'll ever be normal enough to have a good relationship with. She sounds craaaaaaazy.

As you're so deep in that you can't even see what's normal, here's a snapshot of it for you. My husband and I have been together since we were 18, so although we are much older than you now, we did fall in love very young and went through university etc together.

- we watch whatever movies we want. This includes porn.
- we read whatever books/magazines we want (wtf, btw. I have ever heard of this being controlled)
- no restrictions on opposite sex friendships.
-no restrictions on where we go, who we talk to and no interrogations when we come back together.
- respect and kindness between us. We argue only rarely, and although we have both made each other cry over the course of our 20 years together, probably that has happened two or three times each.

Oh, and here's the big one. NO CHEATING. Seriously man, she's cheated on you? Why are you still there? You sound terrified of her, frankly.

You're not in a relationship. You're in a hostage situation. And yeah, I get that it's a bit embarrassing to have a failed marriage at 24, but truly, better to have a bit of embarrassment now and the prospect of years of happiness in the future with someone normal. 

And get some individual counselling to work out why you were attracted to someone so damaged and why you have enabled her behaviour for so long.


----------



## Uptown

insanelygreat said:


> Thank you Uptown. I didn't know about such condition and every single trait applies to her personality. ... what if I want to help her overcome this?


If she has strong BPD traits, you cannot help her. She won't allow it because she is incapable of trusting you. She therefore will perceive of your efforts to help as attempts to "control" her. Indeed, until she is willing to change herself, a team of psychologists can't help her. The change must come from inside. Sadly, it is rare for a BPDer to have the self awareness and ego strength to do that. I would be surprised if as many as 1 in 100 succeed.


> In your experience, is this personality disorder "curable"?


No, it cannot be cured because there is no disease to cure. BPD is not a disease but, rather, a disordered way of thinking. Significantly, it is a spectrum disorder, which means that we all have all nine of the BPD traits to some degree. 

At low levels, these traits are desirable because they are essential to our survival. They become a problem only when -- due to a combination of genetics and childhood trauma -- they become so strong that they distort a person's perception of other peoples' intentions and motivations, thereby undermining all close relationships.


> Or should I help her by leaving?


If she is unwilling to seek therapy and work hard in it for several years (at least) then, yes, I believe you should leave. Otherwise, you will become an enabler who harms her by protecting her from the logical consequences of her own actions. The logical consequence of verbally abusing and controlling one's spouse, of course, is that the spouse leaves. If you continue to stay and walk on eggshells around her, you will be destroying any incentives she might have to confront her issues and learn how to manage them.


> I will make an appointment with a psychologist and see what happens.


Yes, that is a smart decision. With all you have at stake, you cannot afford to NOT get professional help. Toward that end, I offer several suggestions, given that you suspect your W has most BPD traits at a strong level.

*As an initial matter,* I suggest you NOT take your W with you when you see the psychologist. Yes, yes, I know -- it seems to make no sense at all to expect a psych to be able to tell you anything useful without seeing her himself. The reality, however, is that if she has strong BPD traits it is highly unlikely he will ever tell her (or you, even though you are the one paying his bills). 

As I've explained in other threads, your only real chance of getting a candid opinion regarding a possible BPD diagnosis is to NOT have the BPDer along. Therapists are loath to tell high functioning BPDers the name of the disorder (for the BPDer's own protection). There are several reasons for this which I explain in my post at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...-official-im-getting-divorced.html#post811909.

*Second,* I strongly recommend that you NOT tell your W about your suspicions of BPD traits. If she is a BPDer, she almost certainly will project the accusation right back onto you, believing YOU to be the BPDer. Instead, simply encourage her to see a good psychologist (not a MC) and let the psych decide what to tell her. If she does see a therapist, it is still important that you see your own psychologist to obtain a candid, frank assessment -- which likely will not be forthcoming from her therapist if your W is a BPDer (i.e., has strong traits).

*Third,* if you think you may stay with her a while, I suggest you get _Stop Walking on Eggshells_, the best-selling BPD book targeted to abused spouses like you. Or, if you are decided to get a divorce instead, get _Splitting: Protecting Yourself when Divorcing a Borderline or Narcissist._ Both books are written by the same author.

*Fourth,* if your psychologist agrees that it "sounds like strong BPD traits," I suggest you start participating (or at least lurking) at BPDfamily.com -- the largest and most active BPD forum I've found that is devoted fully to the spouses and family members of BPDers. This issue is such an enormous problem that that website is growing by 20 new members every day. The result is that it offers eight separate message boards on various BPD issues. The ones that likely will be most helpful to you are the "Staying" and "Leaving" boards.

*Fifth,* while you are at BPDfamily.com, I suggest you read the excellent articles in their resources section. My favorite is "Surviving a Breakup with Someone with BPD" at T9 Surviving a Break-up with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder - Columbia University, New York.

*Sixth,* I suggest you speak with your psych about codependency. If you've been living with a BPDer for three years, you almost certainly have strong aspects of codependency -- as I do. If so, that means you are an "excessive caregiver" like me. A popular book on the subject is _Codependent No More_. The best online article I've seen on the subject is Shari Schreiber's article at DO YOU LOVE TO BE NEEDED, OR NEED TO BE LOVED?. Please be patient with it -- the last half of her article is far more insightful than the first half.

*Finally*, IG, please don't forget those of us on this TAM forum. We want to keep trying to answer your questions and providing emotional support as long as you find our shared experiences helpful. Moreover, by sharing your own experiences here, you likely are helping numerous other members and lurkers.


----------



## costa200

> Her H was a *cereal cheater*, but she was the one who wasn't allowed to go anywhere or do anything. He was very controlling.


What brand were those cereals?

Sorry couldn't help myself!


----------



## SparklyShoes

This is fairly typical behavior of a cheater. She's scared you'll do to her what she did to you. Did she suffer any consequence for her cheating? If I were you I'd run for the hills.


----------



## jaquen

insanelygreat said:


> Good morning all,
> 
> Let me start off by giving you some background. My wife and I married three years ago and are very, very young. She is 21 and I am 23. We've been living together for more than four years. Like most young couples, we were extremely excited when we first moved in together and couldn't wait to spend time with each other. We have had great times together and love each other very much.
> 
> Fast forward three years later, here's the situation. I have no control over my own life. She has become this controlling person and I feel like there's no escape. She is extremely jealous and micromanages me at all levels. I am not allowed to:
> -Go to public places by myself without being interrogated about the women I saw, if they were attractive, etc.
> -Listen to female artists
> -Have a Facebook account
> -Have a twitter account
> -Watch movies in which women are present, say I like a movie in which a woman is present, read books in which women are present (e.g. A Severed Head)
> -Obviously no female friends or acquaintances (my two best friends happened to be women before we married, she refused to even meet them in person and have not talked to them in over three years)
> -etc...
> 
> My last year in college was hell, since it involved meeting in groups and working with other class members to work in projects.
> We tried therapy, and the therapist sided with me and tried to make her understand I am an adult and I can make some of my own decisions. We have no kids, she has cheated on me twice. I love her. Am I an idiot?
> Also, I happen to be a really emotional guy. She has made me cry a lot.
> Please help me.


You are allowed to do anything you damn well please. You choose not to because you are voluntarily allowing your wife total control of your life. Take some responsibility.

It doesn't really matter much whether you stay, or go. Because right now your self worth, and manhood, is so low that all you'll do is get with another controlling woman who you'll allow to do the same thing to you.

You need to see a therapist on your own. Preferably a man. It's time to do some serious introspective work. You need to get your balls back. When you do, don't worry about the wife. She'll either quickly fall in line, or you'll cut her loose.

Right now the most important thing you need to do is work on YOURSELF. 

Just make sure you don't get her pregnant during all of this. It's going to make leaving so much harder if that's what you choose to do.


----------



## insanelygreat

Thank you all for your input. I feel really embarrassed to find myself in this situation and I realize I have never talked to friends or family about this. I understand why many of you argue that I should leave, but please understand that this is the woman I love and I will work my best with professionals to help our relationship. I want to make sure she gives this relationship a chance and I will give her an ultimatum and a time frame to work with.


----------



## missymrs80

There is treatment for BPD.....i wouldn't say there is a cure though.

You need individual counseling either way. If you dont get it and leave your wife you will very likely end up with another woman with BPD.

This woman sounds very borderline.


----------



## missymrs80

insanelygreat said:


> Thank you all for your input. I feel really embarrassed to find myself in this situation and I realize I have never talked to friends or family about this. I understand why many of you argue that I should leave, but please understand that this is the woman I love and I will work my best with professionals to help our relationship. I want to make sure she gives this relationship a chance and I will give her an ultimatum and a time frame to work with.


And you need to work on codependency issues as well.


----------



## Gaia

insanelygreat said:


> Thank you all for your input. I feel really embarrassed to find myself in this situation and I realize I have never talked to friends or family about this. I understand why many of you argue that I should leave, but please understand that this is the woman I love and I will work my best with professionals to help our relationship. I want to make sure she gives this relationship a chance and I will give her an ultimatum and a time frame to work with.


Good to hear. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## moco82

Poster child for the "How to not cheat on your wife" thread.


----------



## indiecat

She forbids you to look at pictures of other women, or movies? This is crazy behavior. And she's had affairs? I would cry too if I were you. 

Tell her that this stops now, or you walk.


----------



## the guy

Is it me or is it the ones that have this huge degree of projection are the ones that are really behaving that way?

OP wife probly has all kinds of pictures of guy and flirt with all kinds of dudes.


----------



## jaquen

insanelygreat said:


> Thank you all for your input. I feel really embarrassed to find myself in this situation and I realize I have never talked to friends or family about this. I understand why many of you argue that I should leave, but please understand that this is the woman I love and I will work my best with professionals to help our relationship. I want to make sure she gives this relationship a chance and I will give her an ultimatum and a time frame to work with.


You really don't get it.

You need to pay a visit to the coping with infidelity section. Because at this rate, with your enabling, and her abuse, you'll be on there soon, crying about how you caught her with yet another man.

I know I said earlier that it didn't matter until you get yourself together, but this is so much worse than I thought. Get out NOW! It will only get worse.


----------



## tm84

I'm sitting here gritting my teeth wanting to pound some sense into your head about this situation. You say that you love her and yet she's making your life a living hell and will continue to do so as long as you allow it. 

You've already gotten a lot of good advice and I'm just going to repeat most of it by saying that you need to get out of this marriage, get some individual counseling to help you with your co-dependency and self-esteem/confidence issues and for crying out loud DO NOT GET MARRIED AGAIN any time soon. Get out and live your life a bit, travel, meet new people and THEN maybe settle down. I guarantee that, if you continue to go along in this marriage, you will be 45 or 50 wondering what the hell happened to your life. Do yourself a favor and get away from this woman. There are too many others out there who are much more mature and respectful for you to continue to stay leashed to this one.


----------



## EleGirl

insanelygreat said:


> Thank you all for your input. I feel really embarrassed to find myself in this situation and I realize I have never talked to friends or family about this. I understand why many of you argue that I should leave, but please understand that this is the woman I love and I will work my best with professionals to help our relationship. I want to make sure she gives this relationship a chance and I will give her an ultimatum and a time frame to work with.


Your wife has been seriously emotionally abusing you. Has she ever hit you, pushed you, broken things in anger?

You need to find out why you let this go on at all and how to make sure you never let this happen again.

She might be able to be helped. But remember that a person will only change if they want to and you cannot change another person. You can only change how you interact with them.

While you are helping her... with professionals, make sure that you go to counseling for yourself as well.


----------



## EleGirl

Also realize that as you start to stand up to her and tell her that you will not let her control you she is going to escalate. Why? Because she has a need to control you. When you start to show independence she will try some outragious things to get you to back down. 

Be ready for this.


----------



## Lyris

Does your wife agree there's a problem? Because if she doesn't, you can bring in an army of counsellors and psychologists and it will make exactly zero difference.


----------



## missymrs80

EleGirl said:


> Also realize that as you start to stand up to her and tell her that you will not let her control you she is going to escalate. Why? Because she has a need to control you. When you start to show independence she will try some outragious things to get you to back down.
> 
> Be ready for this.


Yes...

Those with BPD try to push you away....and then when you are actually go away the chaos begings. I hate you....don't leave me.


----------



## insanelygreat

@elegirl. yes, she has broken things in anger.
@lyris. yes, she does acknowledge there is a problem. After our first try at therapy, things started to change a bit, lots of ups and downs, the therapist pushed hard for my independence and some things got resolved. There are times when things are really good, but then it all goes to hell.


----------



## donny64

insanelygreat said:


> I want to make sure she gives this relationship a chance and I will give her an ultimatum and a time frame to work with.


Time frame? TIME FRAME?!!!!

The "time frame" should be "you have exactly ONE MINUTE to stop your chit, or I'm walking". And then when she goes apechit on you (and she will), YOU WALK.

You want to put an instant stop to this crap? Then walk every time she pulls it. Until she thinks and believes you will, you're going to be her doormat forever.

In your 20's with nothing tying you down. She has WAY too many issues to fix. As do you. You should both go your seperate ways and fix them, and maybe, possibly, consider meeting up at some later date.


----------



## jnyu44

I think the people here have already given you the advice you need. Uptown's advice was very helpful to me when I first started dealing with my wife, but you also have to be careful about locking a perspective on your wife. This is not to say his advice isn't useful - it is. You need to know how to use it properly though (which he does disclaimer).

I can't even imagine what life is like in your shoes. While my wife can be very difficult, throw in infidelity and 5x the control freak inclinations - then we can start talking about being in the same ball park. In my current situation I'm already thinking of leaving my wife at some point. Unhappiness, infidelity, mental torture - no one should be asked to endure this sort of pain.

Listen to what people are saying here and try to appreciate the gravity of the situation. Like you, I hope that one day my wife will miraculously change and we'll live happily ever after. However, what's more likely to happen is that you continue to endure this mental torture and nothing changes...think about how many more times she'll push you towards mental exhaustion...the feelings that you have when she pushes you so far as to cry...the journey that leads you to discover that she's had another affair...or 2 or 3...do you really want to go through all that stuff just because you love her? I believe that you really do love her a lot...but is all that pain really worth it? For me to love a woman, I have to be happy when I'm with her. She has to be loyal and loving...those are non-negotiables. You could consider re-evaluating what love means to you. 

Like the other people here have said. You are supposed to have fun in your 20s. It's when you go out with your friends whenever you want, you don't really have to worry about money, and whenever you mess up you can go running home to mom and dad. It's a time when you are afforded a real chance to focus and fall in love with someone. How are you gonna feel when you look back and realize that you're in the same situation you were 7 years ago, only now she's cheated a few more times, she's even more unhappy, controlling, and abusive, AND you've got a child to look after.

Life only gets harder as you have kids, buy a house, etc. You need to be part of the camp where despite life getting a lot harder, you're at least happy because the wife and kids are worth it.


----------



## bobby5

The not watching films with women in them is jsut mad. Like waht film can you watch. I dont get how you cope. You need to get out for a while. She has to realise that she has major issues and you can not suffer this any more. I am not saying be mean to her. Insist she gets help. This I expect is gonna be a long road even if she tries hard. I wish you luck. I would like you to rad my story if you get a chance. No pictures of women in it I promise (;
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...counseling-end-all-hope-me-help-new-post.html


----------



## insanelygreat

Update: We are finally getting a divorce!


----------



## Uptown

IG, thanks for returning to give us an update. I'm sorry to hear that the therapy you tried did not work to save your M. Did you ever see a psychologist to find out what it was you were dealing with? Was it strong BPD traits, as you suspected last November?


----------



## EleGirl

insanelygreat said:


> Update: We are finally getting a divorce!


Glad to hear that you are moving in a decisive direction. Take good care of yourself.

Are you now separated from your wife?


----------



## Blondilocks

"she has cheated on me twice. I love her. Am I an idiot?"

Yes.


----------



## boyjeff

insanelygreat said:


> she has cheated on me twice. I love her. Am I an idiot?


yes, RUN away....


----------



## Fee_

insanelygreat said:


> Good morning all,
> 
> Let me start off by giving you some background. My wife and I married three years ago and are very, very young. She is 21 and I am 23. We've been living together for more than four years. Like most young couples, we were extremely excited when we first moved in together and couldn't wait to spend time with each other. We have had great times together and love each other very much.
> 
> Fast forward three years later, here's the situation. I have no control over my own life. She has become this controlling person and I feel like there's no escape. She is extremely jealous and micromanages me at all levels. I am not allowed to:
> -Go to public places by myself without being interrogated about the women I saw, if they were attractive, etc.
> -Listen to female artists
> -Have a Facebook account
> -Have a twitter account
> -Watch movies in which women are present, say I like a movie in which a woman is present, read books in which women are present (e.g. A Severed Head)
> -Obviously no female friends or acquaintances (my two best friends happened to be women before we married, she refused to even meet them in person and have not talked to them in over three years)
> -etc...
> 
> My last year in college was hell, since it involved meeting in groups and working with other class members to work in projects.
> We tried therapy, and the therapist sided with me and tried to make her understand I am an adult and I can make some of my own decisions. We have no kids, she has cheated on me twice. I love her. Am I an idiot?
> Also, I happen to be a really emotional guy. She has made me cry a lot.
> Please help me.


Switch the genders in what you just wrote.

Read it back to yourself and imagine it was your little sister telling you this story.

What would you advise her to do?

An abusive spouse is an abusive spouse.


----------



## Fee_

insanelygreat said:


> Update: We are finally getting a divorce!


Oh just seen this update. Good for you buddy. Make sure you have a support system around you to help you through everything. And of course, we're here too.


----------



## Unique Username

Most extremely controlling and jealous people are actually perpetrating what they are claiming you are doing

wonder if that were the case?


----------



## 6301

insanelygreat said:


> Thank you all for your input. I feel really embarrassed to find myself in this situation IQUOTE]
> 
> You should feel embarrassed. I wouldn't have had the guts to post something like this although I'm happy to here that your getting a divorce because I was wondering if she at least had the decency to give you fresh water in your bowl when you got chained to the dog house at night. Soon as the ink is dry, run like crazy.


----------



## insanelygreat

Update #2: So it's been over a month since we got separated and things have been weird. I filled up my days with things to do so I don't really think about our situation but when I get home at night, these feelings of sadness and separation invade me. It's like I'm happy we're not together but I'm horribly scared. I think way too much about how she is doing.
Also, as I become again a normal member of society, I noticed I have lost a lot of my communication skills. It's like learning all over again how to approach people. Anyone has experienced anything similar?


----------



## manticore

man, you are doing the right choice, you have given so much in return for so little.

you lost your communication skills because she had you totally isolated projecting her own faults and fears on you, making you emotionally cripple, seek your friends and family, begin with them let them take you to restaurants, bars and other social spots, you are regaining the control of your life, you alredy did the more difficult (leaving your toxic STBXW), you will begin to feel better, you will realize that your happines don't depend on one person.


----------



## LoveLonely

I was going to write this long post, trying to give some empathy. I was going to take a different approach than many of the posters here. I was going to write these long ideas about how you can be more assertive, try to understand her perspective, and how you can make her feel more secure, etc. 

Then I read that she cheated on you.

Twice!

End this relationship.

Now.


----------



## Jellybeans

insanelygreat said:


> I am not allowed to:
> 
> -Go to public places by myself without being interrogated about the women I saw, if they were attractive, etc.
> *-Listen to female artists *
> -Have a Facebook account
> -Have a twitter account
> -*Watch movies in which women are present, say I like a movie in which a woman is present, read books in which women are present (e.g. A Severed Head)*
> 
> We tried therapy, and the therapist sided with me and tried to make her understand I am an adult and I can make some of my own decisions. We have no kids, she has cheated on me twice. I love her. *Am I an idiot?*
> .


Do you really want me to answer that? 

Get out now. 

This is not normal. It' sok to have some healthy jealousy but your wife is waaaaaaaaaaaay to the other side of that. You can't watch movies w/ women in them? How the heck do you find any movies without women in them? You can't listen to a female singer? WTF? 

She is controlling/manipulative and this is crazy, dude. 

You are ALLOWED since you are not a CHILD.

It will only get worse. Your girl has issues. Big ones.

Then spend time in therapy to find out WHY you think it's ok to stay with someone who does this to you.


----------



## Inside_Looking_Out

Congratulations on getting out of this relationship. I know you may feel like it should be 'condolences' instead, but you have fought a battle and said to someone else, 'I value myself, you should too.' That's a big deal.

As far as how to get your confidence back, how to get out there, back into society and back to having your own life, I will impart a tip I tell my performance students.

When we are at an event, putting ourselves out there to be watched, to be judged based on our performance...there are several performers that get caught up in thinking, 'What will the audience think of me?' 

I can tell you what a great many of them are thinking...'Wow...I wish I had the guts to go do that!' The rest of them...who cares what they are thinking!?!

Having that motto running in your head, day in and day out, can help you immensely. I don't care what you are doing...from striking up a conversation with a stranger to deciding on taking a cooking class to performing on stage. There is someone out there in the world that wishes, at that very moment that they had the guts to do what you are doing.

Let that soak in for a moment. Somewhere in this world, there is an agoraphobic that wishes they could go grocery shopping. Somewhere in the world, there is someone bedridden that wishes they could take a walk on the beach. Somewhere in the world, there is someone stuck in awful, loveless marriage, that wishes they were free to strike up a relationship with a lovely, spirited person they just met.

You can live the life you want to live...but no one can do it for you. You have to be willing to take that action, and be inheritantly grateful that you are capable of doing just that! Just keep repeating to yourself...someone, somewhere, is jealous of what I am getting ready to do. 

I know it sounds conceited...but it just may help to get your confidence kick started. Good luck to you, and have fun!


----------



## minebeloved

She cheated on you twice, and is probably still cheating on you now!
That's why she is acting that way. Dane Cook basically sums it up here.

Watch this video
DANE COOK THE VICIOUS CIRCLE LEGENDADO COMPLETO - YouTube

It really starts here 55:30-1:07:17
But this basically sums it up 1:05:00 - 1:07:17


----------



## Cosmos

insanelygreat said:


> Update #2: So it's been over a month since we got separated and things have been weird. I filled up my days with things to do so I don't really think about our situation but when I get home at night, these feelings of sadness and separation invade me. It's like I'm happy we're not together but I'm horribly scared. I think way too much about how she is doing.
> Also, as I become again a normal member of society, I noticed I have lost a lot of my communication skills. It's like learning all over again how to approach people. Anyone has experienced anything similar?


You're bound to feel the way you do, OP. You've just come out of an abusive relationship with a highly controlling woman.

I was in an abusive relationship some years back and ended up being diagnosed with PTSD. Yes, abusive relationships _can _cause PTSD and it sounds like you need time to heal emotionally.

Be kind to yourself, keep busy and spend as much time as you can with good friends. Before you know where you are you will regain your confidence along with your communication skills.

Good luck!


----------



## Sandfly

Don't bother trying to support her through counselling.

When it's going well, she won't thank you for making her go.
When it's going badly, she will blame you for making her go.

The most effective messages, the ones that get through to people, are delivered non-verbally.

Staying with her is "saying" that fundamentally there is nothing wrong with your relationship, or with her. She is acceptable. No need to change.

Leaving her is "saying" to her: "Wife, you need to sort yourself out".

Leaving her and not supporting her through counselling is "saying" to her: this is her problem, with Her. Let her change her.

In the long run, she will have a better life if she does something about her problems, instead of having a target to blame for them - whether that;s you, or the Ex, who, by the way - may not have been the Monster she paints him as. It could be that the sob-story works on you, and it's all made up for your benefit. You are attracted to the birds with broken wings, the snakes shivering in the cold. You gotta stop taking in strays and trying to nurse them. They are never grateful, they are like children.

You could contact the monster and ask what his experience was, without of course revealing where she is now.


----------

