# How do I get dh to treat me better without threatening to leave?



## PenguinCat (Jan 9, 2014)

Dh and I are mid 40s, married 11 years, 3 kids. Dh is a lawyer with a fairly demanding job. I am a sahm and am returning to school for a masters degree this fall. 

From the outside we look like a happy successful couple. I used to think we had a successful marriage. But for the past couple years I feel dh is treating me poorly and without respect in a few areas:

Sex: I've asked some specific questions in the other forum, but last week dh and I had a discussion/fight in which I said our sex life was not satisfying for me, I wanted more foreplay and more attention to my pleasure. Dh basically told me he didn't care. He said he liked the balance as it is, and I should try harder to pleasure him, and he wasn't going to try harder to pleasure me. 

Passive aggressive behavior: dh has a history of not asking for what he wants or needs, and then blaming me for failing to read his mind or solve his needs. He blames me for being inconsiderate, but I'm doing everything I can and still failing in his eyes.

Not apologizing: dh refuses to apologize to me, ever. He insists all conflicts and disagreements are 100% my fault. To keep the peace, I end up apologizing for things that I don't think are my fault, and now I'm getting resentful.

I'm in therapy, individually. Dh refuses to consider couples therapy and also flat-out refuses to look at any books or articles (I suggested Gottman).

He has good qualities too, of course. I can't leave the marriage, for lots of reasons, and I don't want to. I just want him to change, or at least listen to me when I think there's a problem hurting our marriage. What can I do if I can't threaten/don't want to leave?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Does your counselor have any suggestions?

Have you read "Divorce Busting". There is a good chapter on how to introduce unilateral changes into a marriage to get change.

on the sex front. There was a time when my H told me that he was not responsible for my orgasms, right after he's had an O. He just rolled over and went to sleep.

So the next time we had sex I made sure that I had an O (self stimulation during PIV). Then, before he got his, I just pulled away from him. He protested. I told him that I too was not responsible for his orgasms. And then I went to sleep.

He never said that sort of nonsense again.

We teach people how to treat us. He treats you as he does because you have allowed it, thus teaching him that it's ok. So now you need to teach him new ways.. it will take a while.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Get some self esteem and stop allowing yourself to be treated this way. Honestly it sounds like your DH is far from a prize catch, given the same situation I would leave and go out and have a life, you're wasting the one you have and no one will thank you for that.


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## PenguinCat (Jan 9, 2014)

Yeah, I agree that I've allowed myself to be treated this way. My therapist thinks some of what's going on is emotionally abusive. I've been in therapy before and i don't find dwelling on my childhood all that helpful--I see some patterns but what I really need is strategies for tackling these conflicts. I'm not considering leaving. I know some people would think I'm crazy, but I think the marriage can be saved and divorce would just cause a million other problems.


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## PenguinCat (Jan 9, 2014)

I think what's really messing with my head is that dh is convinced that he's completely blameless and completely right in every marital conflict. He refuses to even consider that he's contributing to our problems. Can someone like this change?


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening PenguinCat
I really don't see much you can do if he doesn't care about your pleasure / happiness. You can get into a "if he doesn't do X, you will stop doing Y" situation, but I don't seem that being at all satisfying in the long run.

Has he given any indication why he thinks it is OK for your sex life to be unbalanced where it is all done for him?




PenguinCat said:


> snip
> Dh basically told me he didn't care. He said he liked the balance as it is, and I should try harder to pleasure him, and he wasn't going to try harder to pleasure me.
> snip


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

PenguinCat said:


> I think what's really messing with my head is that dh is convinced that he's completely blameless and completely right in every marital conflict. He refuses to even consider that he's contributing to our problems. Can someone like this change?


Check out the first post in my "Relationship Truths" thread. It will show you what your husband needs to do to improve your marriage. I think it's on him, hon.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

PenguinCat said:


> Yeah, I agree that I've allowed myself to be treated this way. My therapist thinks some of what's going on is emotionally abusive. I've been in therapy before and i don't find dwelling on my childhood all that helpful--I see some patterns but what I really need is strategies for tackling these conflicts. I'm not considering leaving. I know some people would think I'm crazy, but I think the marriage can be saved and divorce would just cause a million other problems.


Have you tried behavioral therapy. That does not go into the past. It just helps you identify current issues and behavioral changes to address them. It works.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

I'm honestly not sure what you can really do either OP. While I commend you for wanting to save your marriage, it takes two to make a marriage work.

All the changes in the world to teach him not to treat you this way won't turn him from a selfish jerk into a loving husband. His not caring about your pleasure during sex is EXTREMELY selfish.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

PenguinCat said:


> I think what's really messing with my head is that dh is convinced that he's completely blameless and completely right in every marital conflict. He refuses to even consider that he's contributing to our problems. Can someone like this change?


There is a big thread around here somewhere about walk away wives. Some of the men on it said that the problem is that women talk to men as though they are talking to other women. And most men do not pay attention to that. They consider it nagging and noise.

They told us that if you want to get a man's attention, you need to talk to him in the manner that a man would talk to him. What does that mean?

Leave out the emotional, touchy feeling stuff. Instead you put it on the line. Say what you mean and do what you say.

"I'm very unhappy in our marriage. So unhappy that if you don't go to marriage counseling with me and work on fixing things with me, I'm filing for divorce. "

they say that anything short of something that clear will be ignored by most men.

Then if he blows you off because he does not think you will go through with the divorce, you have divorce papers and hand them to him.

Very often people do make changes until a catastrophe hits them between the eyes.

You have to mean it and be willing to follow through.


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## PenguinCat (Jan 9, 2014)

Re: our unbalanced sex life...dh's argument is basically that he doesn't accept the premise that he and I should be deriving equal amounts of pleasure from our sex life. He says that there are a lot of areas of a marriage that are unequal, many in my favor (I'm not sure which areas he means...). He says/threatens that if we change the sex balance, we need to change all the other areas where I'm favored. I'm too scared of these comments to probe deeper. My therapist asks what I'm scared of, and I'm not sure. I'm kind of afraid of our marriage just getting really nasty and awful, so I go along with it. I want it all to change, but I don't want to threaten divorce. If I had papers, he would know I was bluffing.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

PenguinCat said:


> Re: our unbalanced sex life...dh's argument is basically that he doesn't accept the premise that he and I should be deriving equal amounts of pleasure from our sex life. He says that there are a lot of areas of a marriage that are unequal, many in my favor (I'm not sure which areas he means...). He says/threatens that if we change the sex balance, we need to change all the other areas where I'm favored. I'm too scared of these comments to probe deeper. My therapist asks what I'm scared of, and I'm not sure. I'm kind of afraid of our marriage just getting really nasty and awful, so I go along with it. I want it all to change, but I don't want to threaten divorce. If I had papers, he would know I was bluffing.


Seriously, he is a pig of a husband. If you don't divorce then you only have yourself to blame for wasting your life. 

Do you understand how f'ed up his thinking/behaviour is? 
Do you see that you are wasting your life with him?


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## another shot (Apr 14, 2015)

You cant leave why?

How will he know you are bluffing?


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

PenguinCat said:


> Re: our unbalanced sex life...dh's argument is basically that he doesn't accept the premise that he and I should be deriving equal amounts of pleasure from our sex life. He says that there are a lot of areas of a marriage that are unequal, many in my favor (I'm not sure which areas he means...). He says/threatens that if we change the sex balance, we need to change all the other areas where I'm favored. I'm too scared of these comments to probe deeper.


Omg wtf??? Are you serious?


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Narcissist


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

PenguinCat said:


> Re: our unbalanced sex life...dh's argument is basically that he doesn't accept the premise that he and I should be deriving equal amounts of pleasure from our sex life. He says that there are a lot of areas of a marriage that are unequal, many in my favor (I'm not sure which areas he means...). He says/threatens that if we change the sex balance, we need to change all the other areas where I'm favored. I'm too scared of these comments to probe deeper. My therapist asks what I'm scared of, and I'm not sure. I'm kind of afraid of our marriage just getting really nasty and awful, so I go along with it. I want it all to change, but I don't want to threaten divorce. If I had papers, he would know I was bluffing.


I am assuming that your live in the USA... is your husband born/raised in the USA? Or is he from a culture that puts women beneath men?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

PenguinCat said:


> Re: our unbalanced sex life...dh's argument is basically that he doesn't accept the premise that he and I should be deriving equal amounts of pleasure from our sex life. He says that there are a lot of areas of a marriage that are unequal, many in my favor (I'm not sure which areas he means...). He says/threatens that if we change the sex balance, we need to change all the other areas where I'm favored. I'm too scared of these comments to probe deeper. My therapist asks what I'm scared of, and I'm not sure. I'm kind of afraid of our marriage just getting really nasty and awful, so I go along with it. I want it all to change, but I don't want to threaten divorce. If I had papers, he would know I was bluffing.


Can you list some of the major things that you are afraid of losing?

Does he earn a lot of money and are you afraid of losing his financial support?

What are you getting your master's degree in?

Who will be paying for your Master's? Is he paying or are you getting out loans? Or are you paying from some other source of funds?

Does he treat a lot of people was beneath him? Or is he angry at you?

Has he ever told you how he things you are an advantage? In what areas?


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## PenguinCat (Jan 9, 2014)

Mostly I'm afraid of the financial mess that would result from leaving. And I'm afraid of entirely disrupting the kids' lives. Dh is paid quite well. He's not manipulative or controlling with money, and there's never talk of "his" money or "my" money, even though I don't work. We will be paying cash for my masters, and I'll be studying speech pathology, but it will take 3 years. It's a well-paying profession, and I'm hoping it will give me peace of mind that I can support myself if necessary. Dh does not come from a different culture. He's very intelligent and makes a joke out of some of his attitudes...so then I can't quite tell if he's serious. But then he is serious. He appears very charming and smart and funny, but he has a lot of nasty intolerant attitudes. He didn't really let this show when we were dating. It's hard to convey the totality of a marriage or the series of compromises made in the course of a marriage...I do love him but I want to be treated better.


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## PenguinCat (Jan 9, 2014)

Also...it's pathetic but I couldn't really come up with a good counter-argument to his claim that sexual pleasure doesn't need to be equal. I mean, I'm not insisting it be equal in every encounter, but if the balance is consistently off, I think it's a problem. Many of our fights start because dh wants more than two orgasms when we have sex, and I'm often too tired/not turned on for a third go-round. I feel I shouldn't have to force myself to do something that's not pleasurable at all, especially when he's making no effort for me at that point. I've told him this...then he says he works very hard and makes lots if sacrifices for the family, even when he's tired, and I need to get over it. 

But then I allow this kind of behavior to continue, so yes, I'm teaching him he can keep treating me this way. Typing this out, I'm realizing this is pretty messed up, right?


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

PenguinCat said:


> Dh and I are mid 40s, married 11 years, 3 kids. Dh is a lawyer with a fairly demanding job. I am a sahm and am returning to school for a masters degree this fall.
> 
> From the outside we look like a happy successful couple. I used to think we had a successful marriage. But for the past couple years I feel dh is treating me poorly and without respect in a few areas:
> 
> ...


I think you mentioned he could also be charming?

This and the above traits point to a narcissistic husband.
If he is, that in itself doesn't help you, except you need to know what your dealing with. IF he actually is, then it will be very difficult for him to change. I would describe him as clinically as you can to your therapist and see what he/she thinks.

You can go from there. Good luck to you sincerely.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Your husband needs to understand that not only is he responsible for your orgasm, but that he should want to be as there are many others out there who would gladly accept that job!


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Dependency is not a position of power from which to negotiate. Get your education and get a decent job. Once that has been accomplished, there will be no more "can't leave". You will know it and he will know it. Once independent, every day you stay will be because you wish to be with him. He likely sees no pressing reason to modify his behavior or to court or woo you because he doesn't believe you have serious options. He probably believes he's the only game in town for you and you can either like it or lump it. The successes you will gain during the academic process will be empowering. You will find respect from your professors and peers and ultimately from your employer and co-workers. I fear that after 11 years, your opinion of yourself has been poisoned by a man who treats you with serial disrespect. His view is not reality. Achieving things on your own will probably do more for your self esteem than years of counseling. If going to school right now isn't an option, set other challenging but specific, measurable, attainable goals that you can work on right now and get to work on them. You need to convince yourself that you are powerful and capable. The oak does not care when a pig rubs against it. The lion doesn't care when the monkey annoys it. The lion knows she's a lion. 
It'd be a lot easier for me to insulting or dismissive to a wife I supported 100% than to one perfectly capable of taking care of herself. The difference is like the difference between having a dog on a chain and one running freely in the yard. The one on the chain isn't going anywhere because it can't. It'll be there tomorrow whether I pet him or kick him and cuss him out. The one running freely goes and stays where it wants to. If I mistreat him, I know he'll be gone.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening PenguinCat
This is essentially trading sex for other things - usually a very bad idea. Its fine to do sexual favors for someone because you love them, or because you want to make them happy - but I think any sense of bartering sex is not good.

I'm not blaming either of you, its an easy pattern to fall into. 

As you suggested, its OK for sex to be one-sided sometimes, as long as on average it is balanced.



PenguinCat said:


> snip
> Many of our fights start because dh wants more than two orgasms when we have sex, and I'm often too tired/not turned on for a third go-round. I feel I shouldn't have to force myself to do something that's not pleasurable at all, especially when he's making no effort for me at that point. I've told him this...then he says *he works very hard *and makes lots if sacrifices for the family, even when he's tired, and I need to get over it.
> snip


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## honestman131 (Dec 26, 2014)

He seems pretty unresponsive to you, which is weird, especially when you are telling him you would like more new sexual experiences with him. What guy doesn't want to hear that? What guy wouldn't be interested in that? Check his phone and Facebook and email accounts. Something else may be going on with him that you haven't found out about yet...


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

His sexual attitudes smack of an overdose of porn. Buy him a blowup doll and tell him to go to town.

You realize that you can only change you - you cannot change him. So work on changing how you can react to his selfish, self-centered a$$ness.


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