# Unconditional love unrealistic?



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Curious if you believe unconditional love is an unrealistic expectation. The last time I loved someone, it didn't matter what I hated about her, I was committed to love her despite the flaws. It wasn't like I was going to be a doormat and if she cheated I would let her go but feelings would still be there. To let go I had to draw on the same love to end it.

By comparison, my ex loved the honeymoon version of me only, the fantasy of me, or what she saw the potential of me becoming in the future. She saw me as a means to forfill her needs while I saw her as someone I was committed to love and to give of myself for the rest of my life. Although she seemed to be committed, the more flaws she accepted of me the more resentment she held. After a while her love for me eroded, the promises and all the reassurances up to that point all lies, reminding me why words of affirmation I place at the very bottom of the love languages list. It was through my ex that I learnt that people could lie through their actions as well, and love bombing doesn't mean someone actually loves you for who you are.

Yet it was the most real love I've felt. But perhaps it's the love I had for her, not whatever she apparently had for me. 
But is it realistic to hope - the way I loved her, is it wrong for me to expect the same from a future partner? I had a talk with others and it seems almost all love is conditional.

Been examining my failed intuition too... how I was so blind. I wanted to feel loved for who I was, she wanted to feel loved by me changing for her. I knew we had issues I pushed on anyway, got a ring because we didn't have a fight for a while about it, and hoped it would have solved things if I showed her more commitment. There goes 15K down the drain. Why didn't it register? I made a lot of dumb ass mistakes as you do when you are in love. 

I just want to get my expectations straight as I move on, and if it's too unreasonable to ask for the type of love I gave, wonder if I should commit fully to a life of pure physicality, sex and pure pleasure no more vulnerability, emotional availability, hopes, dreams, all useless in the end if my ex was best that relationships have to offer.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

You can make the argument of unconditional love for kids and puppies, maybe women to a certain extent, but adult men will always have to work for it.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

oldshirt said:


> You can make the argument of unconditional love for kids and puppies, maybe women to a certain extent, but adult men will always have to work for it.


That's the reality I seem to be seeing, like no wonder so many give up on marriage even with love. I don't know though because I see some of my mates who seem to be going well with unconditional love but then I remember I thought our relationship was solid too, until it all feel apart - and that's what happens, people break up and you go WTF.

I thought if I could ever finally fall in love with someone that it would be enough. Now it seems it needs that + rocket science + stars aligned. It was worth it for the experience sure, but I wonder if I can go through the rest of my life with this drama anymore when I can just play sugar daddy and have myself some sugar babies for cuddles.


----------



## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

People don’t always want you to change, I think you mentioned she had some needs and a particular love language, and that you refused all of that. Doesn’t mean her love was conditional. we knew a couple years ago where the wife was an utter slob. Moved into track pants after the wedding and never looked back. ‘He should love me for who I am, I’m not girly I don’t need makeup!’ She was very firm in her stance. Husband asked her try dress a bit nicer, we told her the same. She was angry and adamant she was who she was.

Look at the posts here where one spouse is denying sex because they just don’t want to have sex with them. Can they ask for a conditional love in a marriage? I don’t like having sex with you so don’t change me? Love me the way I am? Tough one! Some people don’t want to put in the effort and are just too complacent.


----------



## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Unconditional love is what we have for our kids and parents but even the ladder has limits. From a spouse? Nope. Through sickness, health, richer, poorer? Accept if I’m not happy.


----------



## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

OP - the differences in the two scenarios above is one loved you regardless of potential and the other quite literally loved you based on the unrealistic fantasy version of you.

I fully believe unconditional love is real but it requires full transparency. If you give your partner the real you without hiding flaws and they commit to that version of you, I do believe that leads to unconditional love. Unconditional love isn’t the same as reacting if your spouse breaks a promise or disrespects a boundary.


----------



## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

Luckylucky said:


> People don’t always want you to change, I think you mentioned she had some needs and a particular love language, and that you refused all of that. Doesn’t mean her love was conditional. we knew a couple years ago where the wife was an utter slob. Moved into track pants after the wedding and never looked back. ‘He should love me for who I am, I’m not girly I don’t need makeup!’ She was very firm in her stance. Husband asked her try dress a bit nicer, we told her the same. She was angry and adamant she was who she was.
> 
> Look at the posts here where one spouse is denying sex because they just don’t want to have sex with them. Can they ask for a conditional love in a marriage? I don’t like having sex with you so don’t change me? Love me the way I am? Tough one! Some people don’t want to put in the effort and are just too complacent.


Oh, this is another good perspective. Initially opposite of my response but I agree here as well. Maybe it’s true love does require some conditions to keep it going? Sexless marriage is a hard one and I agree intimacy is an important component of marriage. Same with keeping up with hygiene and basic taking care of yourself.


----------



## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Let’s face it, most of us pull out the big guns, we wine and dine and smile a lot to snare a partner.

And then some people sit back and put themselves first, and relax.

Long-term love, unconditional love means putting the other person first, and caring about their happiness too. If you need to do some things better, or stop doing certain things, and your partner is asking you, it’s good to listen.


----------



## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

moulinyx said:


> OP - the differences in the two scenarios above is one loved you regardless of potential and the other quite literally loved you based on the unrealistic fantasy version of you.
> 
> I fully believe unconditional love is real but it requires full transparency. If you give your partner the real you without hiding flaws and they commit to that version of you, I do believe that leads to unconditional love. Unconditional love isn’t the same as reacting if your spouse breaks a promise or disrespects a boundary.


That’s true, I meant to quote the first section in my other response. Sometimes we present a fantasy and hide flaws, or make promises. And then let it all go.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Now to answer your actual question, the reality is of course there is no conditional love. All love is going to be conditional. 

If someone is mean to me and holds me in utter contempt or disrespect or cheats on me or abuses me or turns into a blob of drunken or drug addicted protoplasm - I am simply not going to love them anymore. 

Nor do I expect anyone to continue to love and honor me if I become any of those things. 

I think the whole concept of unconditional love is not only ridiculous but it is also dangerous and damaging. 

I think people need to be told upfront that people are not going to love you or want to be with you or even around you if you are an azzhole. 

Now I am not saying that Random Dude or any individual is an azzhole because their partner broke up with them. Some times there is no wrong doings at all. 

But what I am saying is all relationships are based on a variety of conditions that must be upheld for the relationship to continue.

Even parents and children will lose love and commitment for each other if things are pushed too far. 

There is a point of no return.


----------



## Jamieboy (Jan 14, 2021)

As others have said, yes for blood, no for partners, it takes work, compromise, but not too much. I think if you find someone with the same love language, it's definitely easier. In the beginning we overlook those red flags, blinded by the oxytocin. But when things settle down, the cracks can start to show.


----------



## Bluesclues (Mar 30, 2016)

I think it really depends on what the conditions are. I feel/felt unconditional love for my husband. But his “flaws” were harmful to me, our children and himself. To accept them made me a sad codependent shell. I will always love him unconditionally, but there are now conditions to actively be in my life.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Not counting dogs and children, unconditional love is very dangerous


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Luckylucky said:


> People don’t always want you to change, I think you mentioned she had some needs and a particular love language, and that you refused all of that. Doesn’t mean her love was conditional. we knew a couple years ago where the wife was an utter slob. Moved into track pants after the wedding and never looked back. ‘He should love me for who I am, I’m not girly I don’t need makeup!’ She was very firm in her stance. Husband asked her try dress a bit nicer, we told her the same. She was angry and adamant she was who she was.
> 
> Look at the posts here where one spouse is denying sex because they just don’t want to have sex with them. Can they ask for a conditional love in a marriage? I don’t like having sex with you so don’t change me? Love me the way I am? Tough one! Some people don’t want to put in the effort and are just too complacent.


Failed, not refuse. I gave her kisses whenever she wanted, she said she had to beg me for kisses - she only had to beg for the initiative. But yes that wasn't good enough.
After looking back in hindsight - I had to beg to even touch her nose (her insecurities), but I wasn't going to break up over a bit of hard to get.

Annoying how no one seems to like to play that game with me. This also ties in to the sex. In my past marriage years ago my ex wanted her duty sex and I hated it. I complained, I denied her. I want to have tease and romance to lead into sex, my recent ex? Ha! It was ALSO mostly duty sex too lol - except since I loved her I just put up with it and put out anyway even if I wasn't completely happy.

That's the extent of how I loved her.

Sadly, it seems this made our sex life quite vanilla compared to my youth. Meh, if you want duty sex I can give you duty sex but don't expect anything more than duty sex like FFS!



jsmart said:


> Unconditional love is what we have for our kids and parents but even the ladder has limits. From a spouse? Nope. Through sickness, health, richer, poorer? Accept if I’m not happy.


That seems to be the norm.



moulinyx said:


> OP - the differences in the two scenarios above is one loved you regardless of potential and the other quite literally loved you based on the unrealistic fantasy version of you.
> 
> I fully believe unconditional love is real but it requires full transparency. If you give your partner the real you without hiding flaws and they commit to that version of you, I do believe that leads to unconditional love. Unconditional love isn’t the same as reacting if your spouse breaks a promise or disrespects a boundary.


I'm still determining what kind of love I gave. The love I received was nice but not something I can commit to anymore as it has no real future past its predetermined lifespan as people will inevitably grow tired.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

moulinyx said:


> Unconditional love isn’t the same as reacting if your spouse breaks a promise or disrespects a boundary.


Mmmmmmm be careful with that one. There are limits. Everyone has a breaking point and everyone has a point where if you push them too far or cross over a line one too many, they literally will stop loving you. Love can and often is destroyed. 

Different people have different breaking points obviously, but we have our limit.

And it’s not just self preservation and it’s not just realizing that a relationship won’t work and walking away with tears in your eyes and a hole in your heart.

But there is literally a point where people will stop loving someone and no longer like them or want anything to do with them.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Bluesclues said:


> I think it really depends on what the conditions are. I feel/felt unconditional love for my husband. But his “flaws” were harmful to me, our children and himself. To accept them made me a sad codependent shell. *I will always love him unconditionally, but there are now conditions to actively be in my life.*


THIS is what I'm talking about, is that too much of an expectation?


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Numb26 said:


> Not counting dogs and children, *unconditional love is very dangerous*


Yup, I'm a case study considering what I sacrificed. Yet I would sacrifice it all again, no regrets. I learnt too much the last time around.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

RandomDude said:


> Yup, I'm a case study considering what I sacrificed. Yet I would sacrifice it all again, no regrets. I learnt too much the last time around.


Same here brother, same here


----------



## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

RandomDude said:


> Curious if you believe unconditional love is an unrealistic expectation. The last time I loved someone, it didn't matter what I hated about her, I was committed to love her despite the flaws. It wasn't like I was going to be a doormat and if she cheated I would let her go but feelings would still be there. To let go I had to draw on the same love to end it.
> 
> By comparison, my ex loved the honeymoon version of me only, the fantasy of me, or what she saw the potential of me becoming in the future. She saw me as a means to forfill her needs while I saw her as someone I was committed to love and to give of myself for the rest of my life. Although she seemed to be committed, the more flaws she accepted of me the more resentment she held. After a while her love for me eroded, the promises and all the reassurances up to that point all lies, reminding me why words of affirmation I place at the very bottom of the love languages list. It was through my ex that I learnt that people could lie through their actions as well, and love bombing doesn't mean someone actually loves you for who you are.
> 
> ...


I used to think there was unconditional love for a child by their parent, but now i'm even second guessing that. There is no unconditional love in marriage. If my wife ever cheated, my love for her would be out the door in a minute, and vice versa.


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

I believe in order to have "unconditional love" it must be reciprocal, it cannot be one-sided.

Which then makes it technically "conditional"...Lol!!


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

LisaDiane said:


> I believe in order to have "unconditional love" it must be reciprocal, it cannot be one-sided.
> 
> Which then makes it technically "conditional"...Lol!!


For me, it's conditional in a way where if it's rejected, it's done. As has happened.

I did enjoy loving this way though, and I thought I was loved this way. Even though I was wrong it was a rather nice illusion that I wonder may be possible in the future. Because if not, I don't really see any real reason to try again as knowing me I'll rather chase that fantasy and be alone then settle for less now lol.


----------



## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

RandomDude said:


> Failed, not refuse. I gave her kisses whenever she wanted, she said she had to beg me for kisses - she only had to beg for the initiative. But yes that wasn't good enough.
> After looking back in hindsight - I had to beg to even touch her nose (her insecurities), but I wasn't going to break up over a bit of hard to get.
> 
> Annoying how no one seems to like to play that game with me. This also ties in to the sex. In my past marriage years ago my ex wanted her duty sex and I hated it. I complained, I denied her. I want to have tease and romance to lead into sex, my recent ex? Ha! It was ALSO mostly duty sex too lol - except since I loved her I just put up with it and put out anyway even if I wasn't completely happy.
> ...


When it comes to intimacy I can see both of these relationships had major struggles given you lose the basic desire for it. I’d be interested to read about the breakdown of that. It’s rare to see a husband’s perspective on here regarding their lack of interest without a t issue.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

moulinyx said:


> When it comes to intimacy I can see both of these relationships had major struggles given you lose the basic desire for it. I’d be interested to read about the breakdown of that. It’s rare to see a husband’s perspective on here regarding their lack of interest without a t issue.


I liked the other forms of our intimacy, but the sex I just accepted. We both got our orgasms and moved on with our daily lives. It's rarely much spice. Simple reason why, lack of sexual tension. I didn't bring it up, I just accepted it, (it isn't an easy conversation to have) and I did not want to make her feel insecure or have a repeat like my past marriage. I didn't get a repeat, I got something else. It wasn't all bad as we got each other off, but I never got seduced to the point I became an animal with her.

I just didn't really care about it anymore, I guess I thought I found something else worth holding onto.
Also, it's not something I can really complain about - my ex was young and I had sex on tap? How dare I complain! Yeah, kept it to myself (again).


----------



## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

I think unconditional love is possible, but it has to be reciprocal, balanced. If it's not, I wouldn't say the love fades, but you get turned off real quick, and then you'll feel like you married a stranger.


----------



## gaius (Nov 5, 2020)

Healthy romantic relationships are a dance of action and reaction. If you love your partner unconditionally you're ignoring their part in the equation. Like a conversation where you do all the talking with no regard or response for anything they have to say. Can't have real intimacy that way.

I haven't read all your posts Random but if you keep ending up with women you don't want to have sex with are you really in touch with what turns you on? And comfortable expressing that honestly to a partner? It seems like from what you've said here your relationship dynamics are way out of whack.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

gaius said:


> I haven't read all your posts Random but if you keep ending up with women you don't want to have sex with are you really in touch with what turns you on? And comfortable expressing that honestly to a partner? It seems like from what you've said here your relationship dynamics are way out of whack.


Only those two, and it's definitely not because they didn't turn me on, it's because both were high drive and can't/couldn't be bothered with the foreplay which gets me going, nor is it something I come to expect anyway because sex isn't everything for me.


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

RandomDude said:


> I liked the other forms of our intimacy, but the sex I just accepted. We both got our orgasms and moved on with our daily lives. It's rarely much spice. Simple reason why, lack of sexual tension. I didn't bring it up, I just accepted it, (it isn't an easy conversation to have) and I did not want to make her feel insecure or have a repeat like my past marriage. I didn't get a repeat, I got something else. It wasn't all bad as we got each other off, but I never got seduced to the point I became an animal with her.
> 
> I just didn't really care about it anymore, I guess I thought I found something else worth holding onto.
> Also, it's not something I can really complain about - my ex was young and I had sex on tap? How dare I complain! Yeah, kept it to myself (again).


I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that to have the kind of love you desire requires radical honesty from the get go and throughout.

I think it's possible but it requires consistent honesty and willingness to grow and change from both partners. You have to want to be the best version of yourself for you and for them.

Complacency, settling, taking eachother for granted, hiding true feelings. These are all the things that will kill the passion in a relationship slowly but surely.

You can't demand someone change or be better but you can inspire them to be.

Personally i think what you are looking for is possible. The 'attachment' safety, security, best friends piece AND the animal passion, desire, attraction, continual movement and growth.

But it's easy to slip into the 1st only in a long term relationship or the 2nd only in a string of short term relationships. 

Don't give up hope! Focus on you for a little while and becoming the best version of yourself. Not for your exs but for you and the future relationship you seem to deeply long for. I personally do believe it's out there!


----------



## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

RandomDude said:


> Curious if you believe unconditional love is an unrealistic expectation. The last time I loved someone, it didn't matter what I hated about her, I was committed to love her despite the flaws. It wasn't like I was going to be a doormat and if she cheated I would let her go but feelings would still be there. To let go I had to draw on the same love to end it.


Of course unconditional love is unrealistic. Love is conditional, at the very least, upon behavior. You said it yourself. If she cheated you'd let her go. Then the love you had would slowly fade into nothing but perhaps fond memories. So, in this scenario, we have love conditional upon fidelity and having a continuing place in each others lives.



RandomDude said:


> I want to have tease and romance to lead into sex, my recent ex? Ha! It was ALSO mostly duty sex too lol -


That honestly doesn't sound like a great relationship. Duty sex implies something....missing. An incompatibility in libido, sexual styles, or simply lack of chemical attraction, maybe.



oldshirt said:


> Mmmmmmm be careful with that one. There are limits. Everyone has a breaking point and everyone has a point where if you push them too far or cross over a line one too many, they literally will stop loving you. Love can and often is destroyed.


For example, I was on Reddit and have been following the 2 year saga of a woman who found her husband secretly recording her young just barely teen niece in the bathroom. When she found the recordings and went to the police they found more child pornography on his computer. He took a plea deal, was in jail during the COVID shutdowns awaiting court, and just got sentenced. Her once "unconditional" love for her husband is stone cold dead.


----------



## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

I believe it is essential for both people to present authenticity with eachother in the relationship for a version of unconditional love to occur. All to often we read about one sidedness, usually resulting from a relationship power dynamic, which then leads to trouble down the road. Mutual respect is also a requirement.


----------



## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

RandomDude said:


> Curious if you believe unconditional love is an unrealistic expectation. The last time I loved someone, it didn't matter what I hated about her, I was committed to love her despite the flaws. It wasn't like I was going to be a doormat and if she cheated I would let her go but feelings would still be there. To let go I had to draw on the same love to end it.
> 
> By comparison, my ex loved the honeymoon version of me only, the fantasy of me, or what she saw the potential of me becoming in the future. She saw me as a means to forfill her needs while I saw her as someone I was committed to love and to give of myself for the rest of my life. Although she seemed to be committed, the more flaws she accepted of me the more resentment she held. After a while her love for me eroded, the promises and all the reassurances up to that point all lies, reminding me why words of affirmation I place at the very bottom of the love languages list. It was through my ex that I learnt that people could lie through their actions as well, and love bombing doesn't mean someone actually loves you for who you are.
> 
> ...


Yes.....and no. 

I think unconditional love is something parents have for their kids. 

In a romantic relationship....a marriage. It is conditional.


----------



## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

Unconditional love is a fairy tale fantasy. I'm certainly not going to stay in love with somebody who is abusing me. As has been pointed out there has to be some level of reciprocity.

Rather than unconditional, I think the better analysis is this. It needs to be mostly 100% on both sides, with all over lap so you are connected multiple ways. If it's only 50/50 the minute something happens & one or both people slip back you are disconnected because you only had that one point of contact.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Fly With Me said:


> I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that to have the kind of love you desire requires radical honesty from the get go and throughout.
> I think it's possible but it requires consistent honesty and willingness to grow and *change from both partners*. You have to want to be the best version of yourself for you and for them.
> Complacency, settling, taking eachother for granted, hiding true feelings. These are all the things that will kill the passion in a relationship slowly but surely.
> *You can't demand someone change or be better but you can inspire them to be.*
> ...


But how is this the kind of love I want though? My last relationship ended because she kept trying to change me and I reached my own breaking point when she pushed me to a point I wasn't ready.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

MJJEAN said:


> Of course unconditional love is unrealistic. Love is conditional, at the very least, upon behavior. You said it yourself. If she cheated you'd let her go. Then the love you had would slowly fade into nothing but perhaps fond memories. So, in this scenario, we have love conditional upon fidelity and having a continuing place in each others lives.


I guess for me the love would be unconditional but to continue being by my side is conditional. My love wasn't going to fade, I killed it sure but it was love itself that inspired me to do kill it as that's what she needed to be happy so she can move on.



> That honestly doesn't sound like a great relationship. Duty sex implies something....missing. An incompatibility in libido, sexual styles, or simply lack of chemical attraction, maybe.


It's always been like this. Except, believe it or not - in FWB situations where the emphasis was on friends, sex was a bonus not an expectation. It was much more wild.
But I didn't mind the duty sex with her, because unlike ex-wife I actually loved her. Besides we got each other off, I can't expect too much.

Though yeah, it would be nice if my future partner plays a bit of hard to get. Hell I even tried to teach them the fun of teasing but whenever I teased them they get so horny they can't contain the sexual tension and I'm forced to give in and give them what they want to get off even if I'm not feeling it yet because I don't want to leave my partner hanging. They just CAN'T do it back to me, I can't expect it nor do I think any woman can truly let me touch her the way I touch her and be able to still tell me boldly and seductively that I can't have her.



> For example, I was on Reddit and have been following the 2 year saga of a woman who found her husband secretly recording her young just barely teen niece in the bathroom. When she found the recordings and went to the police they found more child pornography on his computer. He took a plea deal, was in jail during the COVID shutdowns awaiting court, and just got sentenced. Her once "unconditional" love for her husband is stone cold dead.


Well, that would have been traumatic.


----------



## Fly With Me (Jul 11, 2021)

RandomDude said:


> But how is this the kind of love I want though? My last relationship ended because she kept trying to change me and I reached my own breaking point when she pushed me to a point I wasn't ready.


Perhaps because she pushed you. She didn't inspire you. I think most women want their man to be the best they can be but demands and pushing rarely works. You have to want to change otherwise it doesn't really work.

And if you don't want to change that's fair enough. 

I want to be in a dynamic passionate relationship where my husband and I inspire eachother to grow, develop and be the best humans, friends, lovers, partners, parents, colleagues etc. can be. 

I also want him to accept me on my down days, exactly as I am and love me even though I'm a bit grumpy and eating too much chocolate.

It's that balance again of attachment and safety and passion dynamism.

Most of us don't know ourselves very well and we definitely don't know eachother very well. I feel like I have only just begun to understand men a little bit better this year. Before that I said and did everything wrong. Now I just get a lot wrong lol! But yeah i think it's def about inspiring men/partners not pushing them or making a load of demands.


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

RandomDude said:


> Yup, I'm a case study considering what I sacrificed. Yet I would sacrifice it all again, no regrets. I learnt too much the last time around.


Got to hear what you sacrificed while being 32 and banging an 18 yr old. This should be interesting. Just asking. What did you feel she was needing off you that you gave up?


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

RandomDude said:


> Curious if you believe unconditional love is an unrealistic expectation. The last time I loved someone, it didn't matter what I hated about her, I was committed to love her despite the flaws. It wasn't like I was going to be a doormat and if she cheated I would let her go but feelings would still be there. To let go I had to draw on the same love to end it.
> 
> By comparison, my ex loved the honeymoon version of me only, the fantasy of me, or what she saw the potential of me becoming in the future. She saw me as a means to forfill her needs while I saw her as someone I was committed to love and to give of myself for the rest of my life. Although she seemed to be committed, the more flaws she accepted of me the more resentment she held. After a while her love for me eroded, the promises and all the reassurances up to that point all lies, reminding me why words of affirmation I place at the very bottom of the love languages list. It was through my ex that I learnt that people could lie through their actions as well, and love bombing doesn't mean someone actually loves you for who you are.
> 
> ...


Wow, so much to discuss. Sorry you feel down and are moving on, yet that is probably best for you.

I do believe in unconditional love. My dog gave me what I consider true unconditional love, until if died. Oh course I staill have a scar in my hand from where that dog bit me and I required surgery in an ER. I was trying to break up a dog fight. The point of that is that even with unconditional love, there can be times when things go wrong.

I was in a sex starved marriage and decided it would try to save it before divorcing my wife of about 38 years. My thought process was that I needed to "fix" my mental and relationship emotional skills so I didn't find myself back in the same kind of failed marriage situation. A big part of fixing myself was to forgive my wife and recognize that she was a flawed human being who struggled with doing the right thing for herself and her husband. 

During marriage counseling with a sex therapist, I worked at forgiving my wife and giving her unconditional love. What I learned is that to really give such love, you need to become very emotionally vulnerable. That is not easy to do, if you have been badly hurt by someone. So given unconditional love requires a very solid self. You might want to read David Scharch's book Intimacy and Desire to better understand. In fact for many people the degree of self actualization required for such unconditional love may be beyond their reach.

What I found for myself was that it required a lot of work to unconditionally love someone and that I was not capable of doing that "forever." I could do it in cycles, but if my self confidence faltered or my need to raise my protective shields so as to not feel vulnerable, I couldn't keep loving unconditionally. Others may be different.

Another thing I realized was to not be vulnerable my wife and I needed to have clear boundaries defined on some behaviors. This allowed me to expose my emotional vulnerabilities to her. You said that almost all love is conditional. Well, I can see where one can state that there do need to be some "conditional boundaries" for there to be the giving of nearly unconditional love. I guess it is someone like *Schrödinger's* *cat* in that conditional and unconditional love can both be within the "box of life/death."

We did rebuild our marriage. We have now been married for over 50 years. However, the definitions of "love" and "marriage" we each had when we dated, when we were first married, when we were raising kids, when we struggled with an empty nest, and in the changes associated with retirement have changed over time.

One of the happiest moments of my life was just after the priest signed the marriage papers after our wedding ceremony. I don't think I will ever be that happy again in my life. Sill, I am happy with my relationship with my wife and the things we have shared and accomplished. I think that your question about if the love you had for your ex is the best you can hope for and that it will never again happen, is a bad way to look at life. Life is not a linear process where things get better and better and better until you die. There are ups and downs. Hopefully, you will find someone you can trust, build the trust, set mutual boundaries, and live with and love each other the fullest each of you can. 

Good luck.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

RandomDude said:


> Curious if you believe unconditional love is an unrealistic expectation. The last time I loved someone, it didn't matter what I hated about her, I was committed to love her despite the flaws. It wasn't like I was going to be a doormat and if she cheated I would let her go but feelings would still be there. To let go I had to draw on the same love to end it.
> 
> By comparison, my ex loved the honeymoon version of me only, the fantasy of me, or what she saw the potential of me becoming in the future. She saw me as a means to forfill her needs while I saw her as someone I was committed to love and to give of myself for the rest of my life. Although she seemed to be committed, the more flaws she accepted of me the more resentment she held. After a while her love for me eroded, the promises and all the reassurances up to that point all lies, reminding me why words of affirmation I place at the very bottom of the love languages list. It was through my ex that I learnt that people could lie through their actions as well, and love bombing doesn't mean someone actually loves you for who you are.
> 
> ...


That's it. The love you have comes from within you. It's your love and what you are capable of. Not what the other person is. 

A friend of mine with a lot of mental issues was unconditionally loved by her husband. She was also a constant cheat threat. He just always said she was worth it. In ways, that was true. She was very entertaining and upbeat except when she wasn't (bipolar). She was also narcissistic. More than that, they had some career talent in common (journalists) and were pretty well informed so they'd go home and talk about the day's world news or whatever. I believe she loved him too, but she was narcissistic so she did whatever she wanted for herself.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

I think unconditional love is dependent on the person truly being the person you are in love with, and being reciprocated. If you love someone who turns out to be a pedophile, or cheats on you, then what you loved unconditionally was the façade portrayed by a person whose love for you was not unconditional in return.

I was quite shocked to discover that my love for my ex was not unconditional. I think I will always, somewhere deep down inside, continue to unconditionally love the person I THOUGHT I was married to. But that person didn't actually exist, and I had to divorce the real thing.


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Unconditional love does not exist. IMO, if you think otherwise, you simply haven't had a sufficiently negative experience with someone. Parents even disown children who don't conform to their expectations and beliefs, which pretty much proves my view.


----------



## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Unconditional love doesn't look like romantic love. 

The only place i have ever seen it is in parenting, or a combat zone.


----------



## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Married but Happy said:


> Unconditional love does not exist. IMO, if you think otherwise, you simply haven't had a sufficiently negative experience with someone. Parents even disown children who don't conform to their expectations and beliefs, which pretty much proves my view.


It does exist, but it's usually not pretty. The problem with unconditional love is that when it's practiced, it isn't the person that is the focus. Its the idea, the mission, the end state goal.

While this is usually the case, it doesn't have to be. That said, it takes a lot for someone to truly stop taking slights personally. 

Unconditional love would be doing whatever is best for a person. Or, at least trying. That said, we are bound to **** it up at some point. 

So yeah... I do believe it is possible to love someone unconditionally. But it's never pretty. 

In fact, it's usually quite a struggle.


----------



## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

I don't think love for a partner should be unconditional, or rather, that you may or may not still love someone even if they cheat or lie, or steal or are an addict. But that doesn't mean you should remain with them or pursue a relationship with them. Love alone isn't enough. It isn't that it's conditional it's that you should have some standards for yourself as to how you wish to be treated and try and love yourself enough that you will work on your flaws, but still acknowledge that certain things are unacceptable to you in a partner.

"Honeymoon you" is an apt way of putting it. I felt as though I met honeymoon husband and gradually cracks appeared in who I thought he was. I really didn't love the real person I saw. He was a cheater, a drinker and a wastrel. He only bore a passing resemblance to the person I fell in love with. And I didn't feel bad about ending the marriage other than for my son. You should have some conditions I guess, not to your love per se, but to what you will tolerate from another human being to be in your life.


----------



## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

RandomDude said:


> I liked the other forms of our intimacy, but *the sex I just accepted.* We both got our orgasms and moved on with our daily lives. It's rarely much spice. Simple reason why, lack of sexual tension. I didn't bring it up, I just accepted it, (it isn't an easy conversation to have) and I did not want to make her feel insecure or have a repeat like my past marriage. I didn't get a repeat, I got something else. It wasn't all bad as we got each other off, but I never got seduced to the point I became an animal with her.
> 
> I just didn't really care about it anymore, I guess I thought I found something else worth holding onto.
> Also, it's not something I can really complain about - my ex was young and I had sex on tap? How dare I complain! Yeah, kept it to myself (again).


The bolded is what I truly fear from a future partner and why I probably won't date for a few years. Nobody wants to feel like they aren't enough. Especially from their partner if they love them. 

If I can make a suggestion and no judgement, because I have a failed marriage and a failed LTR under my belt in my 30s, but maybe bring it up in a constructive way next time. Say, you notice things have trailed off a bit, and would love to work on it together. What're some things that really excite her (next time her)? That might be something to ask. I don't know.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Unconditional love is impossible. That's just a roadway to disrespect and abuse.

There is willful love, where you will do your best to love your partner, despite his foibles. That's an act of the will, but you need him to also try and step up and willfully love you. If you're not fed at the same level, you will become resentful. Both partners have to be with the program.


----------



## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

jonty30 said:


> Unconditional love is impossible. That's just a roadway to disrespect and abuse.
> 
> There is willful love, where you will do your best to love your partner, despite his foibles. That's an act of the will, but you need him to also try and step up and willfully love you. If you're not fed at the same level, you will become resentful. Both partners have to be with the program.


I would say it's possible, but it takes the form of what i think you are describing by "willful love".

Ever heard of hard love? That falls into it as well. 
My view on it is probably skewed a bit. I was married to someone who was bipolar and undiagnosed, untreated. For ten years.

And i have led a lot of soldiers through combat, and i brought all of them home. 

I didn't always like them. But i always loved them. I didn't always like my wife, but i always loved her. 

I don't have to like you to be willing to take a bullet for you. That's what unconditional love looks like. The thing is, it has nothing to do with you. I could love you unconditionally, but it has nothing to do with you. 

The second it does, it's not unconditional.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

As'laDain said:


> I would say it's possible, but it takes the form of what i think you are describing by "willful love".
> 
> Ever heard of hard love? That falls into it as well.
> My view on it is probably skewed a bit. I was married to someone who was bipolar and undiagnosed, untreated. For ten years.
> ...


The only real condition I place is that they must be in the relationship.

The only real condition I place on a relationship is that they must be in the relationship. If they are seeking affection elsewhere or are willfully denying me attention, there is a door.
If it's situational, which implies not being their fault or that it will be temporary, I have a lot of patience and I can wait it out.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

joannacroc said:


> The bolded is what I truly fear from a future partner and why I probably won't date for a few years. Nobody wants to feel like they aren't enough. Especially from their partner if they love them.
> 
> If I can make a suggestion and no judgement, because I have a failed marriage and a failed LTR under my belt in my 30s, but maybe bring it up in a constructive way next time. Say, you notice things have trailed off a bit, and would love to work on it together. What're some things that really excite her (next time her)? That might be something to ask. I don't know.


She was enough. I don't have crazy expectations for sex and I don't need a porn star.

As for constructively bringing things up, ex-fiancee was the one who brought up most of our issues (or start most of our fights so to speak). For the longest time I thought I was just unable to deal with them as I have been avoiding them but as I looked back and realised she left me very little room for discussion so there was no solution. 

For example, she complained that I never told her what I do to show her that I care, but when I did answer her she just said "there's just my expectation" and pretty much tells me whatever I did was just her expectation as her partner and not enough to show that I care. So of course I refused to answer her in the future either than tell her to find her own damn answer. Even ex-wife was more reasonable.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

jonty30 said:


> The only real condition I place is that they must be in the relationship.
> 
> The only real condition I place on a relationship is that they must be in the relationship. If they are seeking affection elsewhere or are willfully denying me attention, there is a door.
> If it's situational, which implies not being their fault or that it will be temporary, I have a lot of patience and I can wait it out.


For me being in love and being in a relationship is separate. The former for me was unconditional, the latter not.

At a crossroads now, trying to find my path, yet it seems this thread has raised more questions than answers lol


----------



## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

I hate to be Debra Downer......
However, everything is transactional.
No such animal.


----------



## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> For me being in love and being in a relationship is separate. The former for me was unconditional, the latter not.
> 
> At a crossroads now, trying to find my path, yet it seems this thread has raised more questions than answers lol


You would make a good soldier. 

There is a place for people like you and me. But it's lonely place.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

The way I distinguish is I do think there is unconditional love, but I also know there are people you can unconditionally love -- but not live with. And so it should be.


----------



## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

DownByTheRiver said:


> The way I distinguish is I do think there is unconditional love, but I also know there are people you can unconditionally love -- but not live with. And so it should be.


This is correct. You don't have to live with the people you love. 

Gods, that would be a nightmare...


----------



## Coloratura (Sep 28, 2021)

I used to believe in unconditional love until I learned that my husband of 27 years has been cheating on me for the past 8 of those years. I thought I loved him unconditionally but there are lines you can’t cross and still expect unconditional love.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

RandomDude said:


> She was enough. I don't have crazy expectations for sex and I don't need a porn star.
> 
> As for constructively bringing things up, ex-fiancee was the one who brought up most of our issues (or start most of our fights so to speak). For the longest time I thought I was just unable to deal with them as I have been avoiding them but as I looked back and realised she left me very little room for discussion so there was no solution.
> 
> For example, she complained that I never told her what I do to show her that I care, but when I did answer her she just said "there's just my expectation" and pretty much tells me whatever I did was just her expectation as her partner and not enough to show that I care. So of course I refused to answer her in the future either than tell her to find her own damn answer. Even ex-wife was more reasonable.


That's really ****ed up. She has some sort of an issue, a big one.


----------



## RandyJ (Oct 25, 2021)

RandomDude said:


> Curious if you believe unconditional love is an unrealistic expectation. The last time I loved someone, it didn't matter what I hated about her, I was committed to love her despite the flaws. It wasn't like I was going to be a doormat and if she cheated I would let her go but feelings would still be there. To let go I had to draw on the same love to end it.
> 
> By comparison, my ex loved the honeymoon version of me only, the fantasy of me, or what she saw the potential of me becoming in the future. She saw me as a means to forfill her needs while I saw her as someone I was committed to love and to give of myself for the rest of my life. Although she seemed to be committed, the more flaws she accepted of me the more resentment she held. After a while her love for me eroded, the promises and all the reassurances up to that point all lies, reminding me why words of affirmation I place at the very bottom of the love languages list. It was through my ex that I learnt that people could lie through their actions as well, and love bombing doesn't mean someone actually loves you for who you are.
> 
> ...


----------



## RandyJ (Oct 25, 2021)

I don’t believe there is such a thing as unconditional love. It is always possible for one to lose another’s love. Marrying someone with the hopes of changing them into what you want is a terrible idea that will always end in heartbreak for both. That was wrong of her. You should marry someone knowing that who they are right now is someone you would always be happy with. That said, it is also not fair for one to change significantly for the worse by choice after marriage. You marry someone because you love who they are and how they make you feel. If who they are or how they make you feel changes so can the love you have for them.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Livvie said:


> That's really ****ed up. She has some sort of an issue, a big one.





RandyJ said:


> I don’t believe there is such a thing as unconditional love. It is always possible for one to lose another’s love. Marrying someone with the hopes of changing them into what you want is a terrible idea that will always end in heartbreak for both. That was wrong of her. You should marry someone knowing that who they are right now is someone you would always be happy with. That said, it is also not fair for one to change significantly for the worse by choice after marriage. You marry someone because you love who they are and how they make you feel. If who they are or how they make you feel changes so can the love you have for them.


The funny thing is, I wonder how much of these expectations are actually my fault. In our first year as she was my first real love, I lovebombed her as well, spent thousands and threw whatever romantic thing I could think of at her. After a while, I realised it wasn't sustainable if every birthday would result in thousands of dollars gone, and I wanted a future with her beyond our adventures. I wanted us to curb our spending and also to see if she can settle into the post-honeymoon life. I dug our own grave didn't I?

Either than that I've been pretty consistent, also why at the end I did tell her that she's had 4 years to make up her mind if I'm enough. I wasn't, but I've always been me. Her last relationships, the guys dumped her because they didn't feel good enough for her. I share their predicament, but they cut loose quick, I stayed because I loved her. And I thought I was enough, she seemed happy otherwise I wouldn't have proposed I didn't know she held onto so much resentment over the years. Or maybe she got cold feet post-engagement and just needed an excuse to break things off who knows really.

I just want/wanted to be loved for me not who they want me to be. I thought I had it, in the end I did have it - to give to someone else not to receive. That depresses me.


----------



## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Much introspection. I applaud you and hope you reach a level of peace about it. Some people may say "just let it go!" But I differ. When I lost my love years ago, I was devastated. I ruminated for years. Going over and over in my mind what I did wrong. Who she really was. Why wasn't I enough. On and on and on.
I definitely thought she was the love of my life. I would never find another like it.

But you know what? Eventually I did reach a level of peace. And I eventually found another love.
One right for me. Thats what I would hope for you.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Mistake post.

It can be deleted.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

jorgegene said:


> Much introspection. I applaud you and hope you reach a level of peace about it. Some people may say "just let it go!" But I differ. When I lost my love years ago, I was devastated. I ruminated for years. Going over and over in my mind what I did wrong. Who she really was. Why wasn't I enough. On and on and on.
> I definitely thought she was the love of my life. I would never find another like it.
> 
> But you know what? Eventually I did reach a level of peace. And I eventually found another love.
> One right for me. Thats what I would hope for you.


I guess I got some peace in the conclusion that she wanted me to change for her to make her feel loved while I wanted to feel loved for who I am so we couldn't forfill each other's needs. 

To get over her I simply separated her into two people, the woman I loved and all her good sides and the woman who gave up in us and all her bad sides. I see my now ex as all her bad sides, her good sides I remember fondly as someone else and that someone I accepted has died which she has. It kinda helped that I literally SAW what she became after breaking up. That just wasn't who I loved, I kept digging, prodding, to see if there's anything left. Nothing. I was shocked, she got consumed by something else.

So I look back at my relationship fondly from time to time but don't have any thoughts about reconciliation or anything. It's over and it's dead. She's gone and nothing left. But no regrets.
In addition I simply confronted everything and merged my formerly dual personalities into one, my ability to control emotions as well as my ability to be vulnerable. I face them and process them now without shutting down. This has probably been the metamorphosis and key gain from the last relationship.

I wonder if I truly am to find love again, because my standards have gone even higher than they were, but as you can imagine, as per this thread, I am a realist and don't like setting unrealistic expectations.


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

I originally wasn't going to respond to this post because in a quick second I though I unconditionally love my husband and he I. But I've let that roll around in my head and it just isn't true.

In fact I think I have lots of conditions on my love. What I have is acceptance. I have several things that are deal breakers for me hence conditions. But everything else I try to open and lovingly accept. I think I do pretty good at it. It isn't as if we haven't had bumps. But because we accept each other and work as a team they are bumps but not friction between us. They don't divide us. Any long term relationship will experience stressors.

In ours just off the top of my head we have experienced without argument or damage to our marriage.
Surprise debt while trying to buy a house.
Cancelled car insurance from lack of payment (forgot)
Death of a parent
Parent living with us
Daughters friend living with us
Nephew living with us
moving
job changes
Child
College
Health issues
aging
company not paying a paycheck
Owning a rental
starting a business
Putting a daughter in college
Time apart
Being the executer of an estate
Weight Gain/ Weight Loss
Ebbs and flows of sex
Moving a parent who hadn't packed anything
Gambling
Work aholic
Snoring


----------



## Skookaroo (Jul 12, 2021)

I don’t think healthy unconditional romantic love exists.

Some unhealthy relationships have unconditional love, and that’s why you see people unwilling to leave abusive relationships.

Some non-romantic relationships can be unconditional like with children or pets.

But healthy romantic relationships come with lines you don’t cross, deal breakers you honor, and communication regarding these things.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Skookaroo said:


> I don’t think healthy unconditional romantic love exists.
> 
> Some unhealthy relationships have unconditional love, and that’s why you see people unwilling to leave abusive relationships.
> 
> ...


It exists as long as both partners are doing it. It cannot exist absent the free will of both partners. 99% of us are not equipped for such relationships.


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

jonty30 said:


> It exists as long as both partners are doing it. It cannot exist absent the free will of both partners. 99% of us are not equipped for such relationships.


If both partners are doing it then that would be a condition. I'll love you unconditionally IF you also love me unconditionally.

But face it. People aren't programmed for that.
Shoot your partner and they usually stop loving you. Some may not even leave but that is usually from being mentally abused not unconditional love.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> If both partners are doing it then that would be a condition. I'll love you unconditionally IF you also love me unconditionally.
> 
> But face it. People aren't programmed for that.
> Shoot your partner and they usually stop loving you. Some may not even leave but that is usually from being mentally abused not unconditional love.


I agree with you that both must be involved, or it ends for both. 
We need to be fed as well as feed. I think of it as an energy transaction. You need energy given before you can have energy to give.


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Luckylucky said:


> Let’s face it, most of us pull out the big guns, we wine and dine and smile a lot to snare a partner.


My wife and I always say the REAL person is locked in the closet during courtship. After marriage the man starts leaving the toilet seat up and the woman stops wearing makeup. The OP and spouse had different expectations, but in both cases the expectations were unrealistic. 

Doesn't unconditional cover an infinite territory? Humans aren't wired to love another human unconditionally, as in no matter how badly they treat us, as in returning good for evil. We are naturally wired for Eros love rather than Agape love.



jonty30 said:


> It exists as long as *both partners are doing it*. It cannot exist absent the free will of both partners. *99% of us are not equipped for such relationships.*


Maybe we aren't equipped from the womb for such. But can't we cultivate such a relationship? Don't we have to be a giver within and look for another who is also a giver? If all we ever seek is the physical, that is at best all we will find. If the OP sought a companion cut from the same cloth, surely somewhere on this planet is a female who feels the same.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> Maybe we aren't equipped from the womb for such. But can't we cultivate such a relationship? Don't we have to be a giver within and look for another who is also a giver? If all we ever seek is the physical, that is at best all we will find. If the OP sought a companion cut from the same cloth, surely somewhere on this planet is a female who feels the same.


I believe that unconditional love is an act of will. You can deliberately love your spouse, despite whatever might make them unlovable at times. However, it's ultimately a pro-quid-pro relationship. YOu have to be fed in order to be able to feed the other person. You cannot drain the other person forever and expect them to love you.

It's definitely not feeling based, imo.


----------



## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

Conditions have to be in place. Unconditional love between spouses is a recipe for disaster.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

manwithnoname said:


> Conditions have to be in place. Unconditional love between spouses is a recipe for disaster.


I completely agree that you can't leave it to the feelings of the spouse.


----------



## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

I side with Chris Rock on this one. Unconditional love is for women, children, and dogs. Men are only loved on what they provide.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

DownButNotOut said:


> I side with Chris Rock on this one. Unconditional love is for women, children, and dogs. Men are only loved on what they provide.


Yes, Alphas for wanton sex.
Betas for security and piv only sex


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

manwithnoname said:


> *Conditions have to be in place*. Unconditional love between spouses is a recipe for disaster.


And the conditions need to be clearly known and agreed to by both parties before signing the the contract. Rather like CC&Rs in a real estate deal. You have to know what they are before you agree by signing the deal.


----------



## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

Rus47 said:


> And the conditions need to be clearly known and agreed to by both parties before signing the the contract. Rather like CC&Rs in a real estate deal. You have to know what they are before you agree by signing the deal.


Not necessarily. It depends what it is. Cheating, for instance, should be a given, automatic on the list of conditions. Unless it was unconditionally removed and agreed upon prior.


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

manwithnoname said:


> Not necessarily. It depends what it is. Cheating, for instance, should be a given, automatic on the list of conditions. Unless it was unconditionally removed and agreed upon prior.


Oh yes, obviously there are "givens" that needn't be stated, though they are usually explicit with the vows made. I was thinking of other things. Still, there is no harm in putting even the "givens" into the contract. For example, closing off of the intimacy except for medical reasons (being actively addressed with medical doctor) is a violation of the T&C with consequences up to and including dismissal without recourse. This should go without saying, but obviously is ignored in a lot of "marriages".


----------



## JTK-NCC1701 (Jul 21, 2020)

RandomDude said:


> Curious if you believe unconditional love is an unrealistic expectation. The last time I loved someone, it didn't matter what I hated about her, I was committed to love her despite the flaws. It wasn't like I was going to be a doormat and if she cheated I would let her go but feelings would still be there. To let go I had to draw on the same love to end it.
> 
> By comparison, my ex loved the honeymoon version of me only, the fantasy of me, or what she saw the potential of me becoming in the future. She saw me as a means to forfill her needs while I saw her as someone I was committed to love and to give of myself for the rest of my life. Although she seemed to be committed, the more flaws she accepted of me the more resentment she held. After a while her love for me eroded, the promises and all the reassurances up to that point all lies, reminding me why words of affirmation I place at the very bottom of the love languages list. It was through my ex that I learnt that people could lie through their actions as well, and love bombing doesn't mean someone actually loves you for who you are.
> 
> ...


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Meh, I'm starting to realise it, unconditional love is dangerous and not viable. It has blinded me to alot of the BS that I've put up with, I just tolerated it, accepted it, put it aside, ignoring the fact that it continued to make her unhappy and subsequently myself as well. It is not a good foundation for any relationship. Love is fragile, and not always meant to last forever no matter how it feels.

I ask myself really do I really love her bad sides that if there was nothing left but her bad sides, would the love still be there?

Then I realise how much of a choice it is. It's nothing but a choice, unconditional, conditional. It's all a choice. I made mine years ago with her, and I wonder why it was only her that sparked so much vulnerability with me, and I think I know why, the chemistry wasn't the only thing, it was her innocence being much younger than me and my sense of obligation as a gentleman to be a good first partner for her. That's the same loophole of vulnerability I have with my daughter.

So she's definitely not the only one I can fall in love with now that I have learnt more about myself, and in that revelation, she's no longer that special. As for choices, she made hers, and my choice was to hold onto the memory of her good sides and won't love the current shell. That's probably how she felt about me as nothing I ever did was good enough for her. She probably only held onto the memory of our first year, when I exhausted myself for her and what I did for her became a mere expectation.

Either way, meh.


----------

