# How my abstinence pledge led to a quick divorce instead of strong marriage



## freegirl (Mar 3, 2014)

I was 14 years old when I married Jesus. I mean Jesus Christ, the Lord. My parents sent me off to Christian youth camp for the week, and I came home with a purity ring. I sat with my legs crossed, cramped in a theater as our pastor described why sex should only be experienced within the confines of marriage.

The morning of my wedding day, I threw up. Everyone assumed that I was nervous about having sex. I wasn’t. But it dawned on me how much we hadn’t learned yet about one another. We had known each other for three years by this point, but there was so much unexplored territory. So what was I supposed to do when my “aha moment” came as a dress was heaved over my head by seven bridesmaids? Plus, my mother had mentioned no less than 400 times, this wedding was costing them a fortune; I was getting married, there was no way out.

Before we got married, I used to love kissing him. We would spend hours attached at the mouth because aside from occasional drunken foreplay, it was all we had. In our marriage, we stopped kissing because who needs kissing when sex is on the table? Me, I did. I needed assurance that some physical aspect of our relationship was working. And when I didn’t get that assurance I pinned it on myself. Maybe I was just that woman you hear about, who doesn’t particularly care for sex. She just slowly dries up until she dies alone. For months I believed that might be me and rather than try something different, he began to believe it too.

Six months into our marriage, the idea of separating seemed more appealing than feigning headaches for the rest of my life.

Had we had sex before our relationship transitioned into a contract, I would have known that there was no passion, no spark, nothing happening between our bodies. I would never have agreed to marry him because sex is a significant part of a relationship and therefore a significant part of our relationship was failing. With the failure of our sex life, I felt like less of a woman, no longer a sexual creature but more of a plant. Sitting there, day in, day out, wilting while I waited for someone to take care of me.

Without having sex before marriage, I blindly walked up an aisle and committed myself to a man who didn’t know me and gave my long-held virginity to someone with whom I had no more chemistry than a second cousin.

Soon after our divorce, he got remarried to someone who suits him better than I ever could have. And years later, I can confirm that I am not that woman who has no interest in sex. I don’t quilt. I haven’t compiled a grocery list in bed in years, and I now know that sex can be amazing … with a bartender who only knows your first name, a pilot you meet on vacation in Costa Rica and yes, with the right guy – sex in a marriage can be beautiful. The key is to figure that out before you find yourself walking down an aisle in a dress that costs more than the family car (my mother has since reminded me). It isn’t the most important thing when it comes to love. But for me, I learned that sex is important enough not to wait.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

The "test drive before you buy" topic comes up periodically around here, and gets the usual split of those who insist you should do it and those who mention that it didn't matter.

Both points are of course accurate. It is a necessary but insufficient part of the pre-marriage ritual. Sleeping with your hopeful SO will not guarantee that you never have any sexual compatibility issues, but it will weed out an immediate mismatch.

So while it can't necessarily prove that you are or will always remain compatible, it can prove that you aren't. That's still pretty useful information when planning a marriage.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

hmm, 

did you ever sit down with him as married adults and comunicate that you need kissing and foerplay or did you think that he should have known?

part of a happy marriage is being able to comunicate the most personal thing to you wife/husband in a mannor that is fun and exciting this is the best part of marriage exploring eachothers sexuality with aan I love you attitude. and want to know what turns you on ,make you wet with desire. etc,etc,etc,

i think the bottom line is many people are too imature when they first get married coupled with perconcived notions about what married sex is supost to be like.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

married Jesus?

never heard it put that way. And I read the bible cover to cover


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## Rugby (Dec 21, 2013)

Freegirl,

I really appreciate your post. It is so representative of my life. I was raised in an agnostic home with little thought given to religion. As a consequence, I did not wait until marriage to have sex. My wife was raised in a similar home with little thought given to religion. However, she opted to remain a virgin for personal reasons. 

While I was in high school my parents became religious. I chose not to follow them and remained largely agnostic; however, I ended up going to a religious university on a football scholarship. Like many people in the religion, I decided to serve a mission as a means of determining what I did and did not believe. Oddly enough, I was sent to Costa Rica for the mission. While in Costa Rica I stayed in contact with my best friend, whom I later married and who is still my wife. 

While I was in Costa Rica my wife also became religious. A few years after I got back to the US we began dating and eventually got married. Sex became an issue from the beginning and remains an issue many years later. As friends in school we messed around a lot but never had sex. At that time neither of us was religious. As a married, religious woman, her sex drive evaporated. She still blaims her affiliation with religion for her issues with sex. Before finding religion, she was very sexually driven. Now she is shutdown and full of guilt.Needless to say, we are no longer religiousm it may work for some, but it has nearly ruined our marriage. We both wish we had never had anything to do with it. Sometimes 20/20 hindsight can be pretty sad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

I wish premarital sex was the answer but maybe the real answer is some sort of deep (not yet fully invented) psychological testing for compatibility ? Followed by several classes on communication, budgeting, shared responsibilities, etc..

For example in this situation they spent a lot of time kissing and once they married the kissing stopped. That sometimes happens with sex as well.

Or maybe there is just no way to predict the outcome. 

At least in this case they split early and seemed to both find better matches.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I wouldn't blame abstinence. There have been quite a few couples that had good sex and then when they married, one partner "dried " up.

Sorry you married a dud. There were some girls who wanted to play the field a bit before marriage and ended up losing the game. Sex is definitely something that can be improved, as long as both partners are willing.

One girl I knew, we liked each other a lot but I wouldn't have sex, decided to get with another Guy. I tried to talk her out of it, told her she should wait, that I liked her and didn't want her to. She had convinced herself to go for it however.

Broke my 16 year old heart, but I moved on. Later, she had serious remorse and really wanted to get with me. I was simply not OK with how everything went down and stopped myself before I had sex with her, we were making out and the chemistry was unreal! I couldn't bring myself to be with a girl that wanted to try guys on for size until she found the one she liked best. A couple years later I met my wife and fell in love at first sight. I knew she was the one before sex. Honestly., our sex wasn't very good to start but with work, we became each others best.

The other girl never got over what she threw away just to try out a Guy to see what he would be like.

I pretty much agree with what Cletus said as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> I wouldn't blame abstinence. There have been quite a few couples that had good sex and then when they married, one partner "dried " up.


I would, in this case. 

Premarital sex won't predict the future, but it sure as hell illuminates the present. This one sounds like a "in the here and now" kind of problem.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

I dont know how man screwed up " religous" sex life. Paul talks about husbands and wives giving each other pleasure with sex. God created sex to be pleasurable between a husband and wife. Some how the message got really obscured.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rugby (Dec 21, 2013)

Thound,

Not all religions are the same, with some being more oppressive than others, but modern Christianity in most all its various iterations is sexually oppressive to some degree. History shows that it did not start out that way, but that is what it has become. As a nonbeliever, I find the obsession with sex, or rather the control of it, as the crux of most religious doctrine. Just my two cents.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

How old were you when you married?

Divorced?


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I agree with you mostly. I was also raised with abstinence till marriage and survived to be a virgin into my 20's and through a 2 year engagement.

That engagement did not end in marriage, I became sexually active and had sex with my husband before we were married. We still had problems that are just now being addressed. (18 years after the fact.)

I am no longer religious. If I found myself single I would count sexual chemistry as one of the most important factors of finding a new partner.

I think, more than the abstinence - a stringent religious environment CAN cause severe sexual immaturity. Especially with women seeking orgasms - it can be a much easier thing to find sex unsatisfying and just stop having it than to go through the necessary process to find it with a partner. 

As Faithful Wife says - like attracts like. My life is full of women who have never had an orgasm with their husbands and get off with a vibrator alone. This was my story as well until last year. If I had to look back and say the one place it went wrong I would have to say my sexual immaturity. It wasn't sexual ignorance - but immaturity. My sexual immaturity came from a stringent religious environment in which masturbation was not allowed ever in life. Married couples could not have oral sex. Etc.

How does this lead people like myself to be immature - because the whole basis of sexual knowledge is immature. Indulging in these 'forbidden' sexual acts is in itself a thrill. Masturbation becomes a thrill. Having passionate sex is a thrill. Oh look at me - we had SEX. But what if you arent getting off? Not so thrilling to have those tough conversations and having to change your mindset. Not about having SEX but really having to stand up for yourself and ask for the time and effort to have that intimacy instead.

Sorry for the threadjack.


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

I had good sex with the STBXW until we got married. Then suddenly (and yes I mean suddenly) sex was a weapon to be used to punish or extort. Go figure...


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

Cletus said:


> I would, in this case.
> 
> Premarital sex won't predict the future, but it sure as hell illuminates the present. This one sounds like a "in the here and now" kind of problem.


I don't agree. In this case it seems that after marriage he was insensitive to her needs and possibly a selfish lover. Whats to say that if they had sex before marriage he would have been that way at that time. This forum is full of stories of members whose spouses sold them a false bill of goods and did a flip flop after marriage. 

I feel there is fault on both sides. He was insensitive to her needs and she possibly never stood up for what she needed. 

I personally have no firm stance on this subject as I have heard very good arguments from both sides of the camp. I was a virgin when I met my wife and will admit that a combination of my lack of experience and my wifes refusal the teach me how to do it right led to issues early in our marriage.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I have some regrets* within *our marriage regarding sex, mainly not grasping the urgency of the male sex drive....when my husband needed it MORE than I was feeling it... but him and I ...we don't regret waiting till our wedding night for intercourse.. we didn't have an experience like this though ...so I guess it is easy for me to say....

I was just reading an article about *Life Regrets* days ago.... I think we all do the best we can when we're younger... with the limited knowledge we have ..for you, you were indoctrinated with purity beliefs... I was too....yet our sex drives, that magnetic pull for pleasure was *too much* when we got alone... it wasn't long before his hands were headed down there and my thoughts were "OMG, don't stop NOW!".... It's very natural to go there... yet we still held to "that line" in the sand...



> *MissScarlett said*: I think, more than the abstinence - *a stringent religious environment CAN cause severe sexual immaturity. Especially with women seeking orgasms* - it can be a much easier thing to find sex unsatisfying and just stop having it than to go through the necessary process to find it with a partner.


I was having orgasms since age 11... something was stirring in me..you notice if you are touched there...WOW.. a little rubbing...and you can't stop...and that had to have it's release... what I can say about THIS was, growing up in the church...IT made me feel *DIRTY*...TOO TABOO to ever talk about...you just do that in the dark... where no one knows.....but it felt too heavenly to stop..it's the ONLY thing I would have outright LIED about had someone asked me...& probably turned beat red in the process....He never asked me, I never asked him....(and we didn't open the masturbation dialog until 19 yr into our marriage crazily)...

Ignorance is never bliss though.... these are your regrets Freegirl.... and because of how it worked out, you feel very strongly to warn others to NOT make these same mistakes... *we all do this*.. it makes sense after all.. 

My big thing is.. young wives... don't leave your man hanging, don't put your children before him, don't allow anything to come before a happening fulfilling sex life (our men have higher drives in their younger years generally).....please each other, explore to the hilts, overcome your inhibitions!!...TALK ABOUT SEX...because this is where I FAILED as a young wife.....Sometimes I'd like to go back there and RE-live those years ..

But it can work out too....we were ON FIRE for each other...there was never a question of chemistry.... because of our roaming hands and...well... orgasms... (the only question we would have had was -does it fit?)... even that took a little reaming out..but then all was great!...the Church and Jesus would have frowned... It would be the most frustrating thing imaginable dating without some mutual pleasure...... I've read cases where couples were HOT for each other, they stopped touching-feeling it was wrong, sinful... then the female LOST her sex drive all together... and had to have therapy (after the wedding) to regain it.. Should have never been... very very  

Surely there were signs the CHEMISTRY was NOT THERE before his penis entered your vagina... if not, I would not understand this.... was this a matter of just kissing and nothing below the belt... many cold showers...then he couldn't get you to orgasm... maybe he was a selfish lover.. not enough foreplay to get you ready... or he struggled with Premature Ejaculation..so many things a couple could work on.. how important that they Do.. if one is not satisfied..


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

Thound said:


> I dont know how man screwed up " religous" sex life. Paul talks about husbands and wives giving each other pleasure with sex. God created sex to be pleasurable between a husband and wife. Some how the message got really obscured.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What happened is that the priests and politicians found out that you could keep people living in fear of eternal damnation if you experienced any sort of pleasure, and that you could extort blind obedience, loyalty and MONEY with it, so it was off to the races!


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

I understand there is now evidence to support that Jesus was married. Bet his wife just LOVED that he hung out with prostitutes!

But I digress.

What SA says is spot on in terms of marital sex.

I think there has to be chemistry. But you can maintain that without premarital sex. Desire is the key. There is but one man on the planet I have never touched and yet still feel stirrings for...

And yes, I'm going to leave it written just that way so you can have fun with it. :-D


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

All the premarital sex in the world won't help you if you or your partner pops a personality disorder or CSA or something on the unsuspecting other 5 or 25 years later.

I have come to know that analyzing your inlaws is in my view a far better predictor of marital success than analyzing your spouse to be.

Chemistry is overrated - what you need is desire and some flexibility. I would never consider marrying the best person I ever met chemistry wise...


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

john117 said:


> I would never consider marrying the best person I ever met chemistry wise...


Why, john?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Elementary, my fellow poster 

A superb match in chemistry has s couple of issues:

1. Significant chance of defacto transparency by virtue of both partners being supremely into each other. Some people don't like it.

2. I'm a firm believer a marriage is better between two people who may have some differences and can work them out because it's not always lovey dovey... 

3. The big one. Good chemistry may cause one to overlook defects... It's like buying a car. One feature vs the whole car.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

What is the difference between desire and chemistry? Or do you mean desire in terms of intent and will?

I don't think anyone is advocating using a single criteria upon which to make a decision. But you can't just ignore chemistry. It is very sad when someone comes on here and admits that they married their best friend but never felt a spark. Too often they didn't know what a spark felt like and found out after marriage. Not every single person with that story is lying and rewriting history. Some people stay because it is comfortable and think that sex just to satisfy an urge is the way sex works, at least for them. They are wrong... That's why sexual chemistry is so powerful AND important in marriage. It helps fight off temptation. 

Flexibility is good for sure. Patience is as well. Two weeks of hot sec with a few weeks of tepid or even no sex doesn't necessarily spell doom. But you also have to be able to talk about it and to recognize that it could become a problem. Accepting less than what you WISH you could have is a requirement. This is usually a guy problem because of porn but since women can't accept that there really are low D guys.

In-laws, I agree totally. Between hearing about then as parents and observation you can glean a lot about potential issues. But not everyone gets to meet the parents. 

So the person you had the best chemistry with was both amazingly fun AND crazy? 

BPD - borderlines, not bipolars - are alleged to be like this often. 

Man cannot live by chemistry alone. Yup!


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

john117 said:


> I have come to know that analyzing your inlaws is in my view a far better predictor of marital success than analyzing your spouse to be.


:iagree: This is so true its scary !


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Chemistry does not mean you are alike in every way. It doesnt mean you agree about everything. But let's say you did agree and are alike. How did a marriage that has to work things out get a higher rating? They are both good if both couples are happy. 

3 is a big one. But that's why you is multiple criteria.

And for some, those defects are the price for chemistry. Depends on how you deal with them. 

I don't understand number one so I can't comment. Defacto transparency?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

john117 said:


> Elementary, my fellow poster
> 
> A superb match in chemistry has s couple of issues:
> 
> ...


Well, it's interesting to hear your response, john. 

I would be suspicious if the chemistry were too good. We do need some balance to make a relationship long-lasting.

I am a very emotional person. If I were with another very emotional person, we would burn each other out, spectacularly, and quickly, I am afraid.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> Chemistry does not mean you are alike in every way. It doesnt mean you agree about everything. But let's say you did agree and are alike. How did a marriage that has to work things out get a higher rating? They are both good if both couples are happy.
> 
> 3 is a big one. But that's why you is multiple criteria.
> 
> ...


John, could you please explain the bolded?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Sure... Defacto transparency is when you know and/or understand someone so well (and vice versa) that you don't even have to try to be transparent. You just are.

This happens when you're so great of a match chemistry / psyche wise that you pretty much are joined at the hip. Soul mates, blah blah.

It happened to me. Not with my current partner but with the true love of my youth  the curly haired, dark haired cutie that I fell for back in the old country. I think I mentioned her.

Good student, got me really into psychology (she was a psych student also in a country that pays little attention to such endeavors), philosophy, poetry, endless discussions... Incredible sense of humor, cynical, very smart, from a dirt poor and troubled family (*) and CSA survivor. We did not have to try hard to be transparent - we just were. 

We both knew we were too alike to make it work but were drawn towards each other. Eventually we finished college there, applied to grad schools abroad, and received our paperwork within a week of each other. Me in the USA and her in the UK. We diverged academically, me on the cognitive and experimental side and her behavioral. She's teaching in a college in the UK, never married. 

(*) I kind of knew she had a rough upbringing but never realized how bad till my favorite aunt (whose preschool daughter I was babysitting for college money :rofl spilled the beans - auntie was a supervisor in the national insurance system and lived within a mile of her, and her family had a social case worker keeping an eye on them. Large family (5 or so kids), her dad was a sailor in the merchant marine. He died of a stroke and my friend, then 13 or 14, came home and found him at room temperature... Then CSA then... I was blown away at the details (no HIPPA back there)...


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

John, do you think when you divorce your wife, you will look that gal up?

Okay, maybe too personal a question. Let me know and I will remove it.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

jld said:


> John, do you think when you divorce your wife, you will look that gal up?
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, maybe too personal a question. Let me know and I will remove it.



Nope. I can't see myself living in the UK  plus I'd be swapping one DD (dead desire) for another DD (dead desire). We've exchanged a few emails since then but that's about it.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

By dead desire, do you mean you could no longer have any feelings for her?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

The other way around. I still have feelings for my wife and try to help her live a comfortable life - she did not ask for BPD or for everything that happened to her - but at the end if the day her desire for meaningful life has evaporated. That's the ghost I was referring to. She does not have my willpower or determination. 

My old flame is likely no different. She had no desire back then - poverty, about the krappiest childhood this side of Somalia, and CSA will do it to you - and it's not like she has found peace to this day. She's teaching, no family, no pets, not much research or publications, that's about it. I feel for her because she got it harder than anyone I can think of and still made something in her life. 

Man this is intense dredging of the past. As I post in this I'm listening to some of "our" favorite music from back then on YouTube. Sit on a bench in the college campus green, drink strong coffee, and discuss Jean Paul Sartre's version of things . 

From that to a mortgage, wife, kids, orthodontics appointments, and designing toaster ovens in 30 years. Desire is the least of my concerns :rofl:


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

john117 said:


> The other way around. I still have feelings for my wife and try to help her live a comfortable life - she did not ask for BPD or for everything that happened to her - but at the end if the day her desire for meaningful life has evaporated. That's the ghost I was referring to. She does not have my willpower or determination.
> 
> My old flame is likely no different. She had no desire back then - poverty, about the krappiest childhood this side of Somalia, and CSA will do it to you - and it's not like she has found peace to this day. She's teaching, no family, no pets, not much research or publications, that's about it. I feel for her because she got it harder than anyone I can think of and still made something in her life.
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing, john, even though it is painful for you.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

It's not. I'm not the martyr type believe me


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

freegirl said:


> I was 14 years old when I married Jesus. I mean Jesus Christ, the Lord.
> 
> ...... It isn’t the most important thing when it comes to love. But for me, I learned that sex is important enough not to wait.


you were brainwashed by some religious morons. I do not remember anyplace in the bible where Jesus said not to have sex!!! 

well glad you figured out you were played. Sorry it was too late to save your first marriage though.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

murphy5 said:


> you were brainwashed by some religious morons. I do not remember anyplace in the bible where Jesus said not to have sex!!!
> 
> well glad you figured out you were played. Sorry it was too late to save your first marriage though.


In the OT, sex out side of marriage (fornication) is punishable by death. 

Do you remember anywhere that Jesus said to go out and have sex outside of marriage? I don't. 

In the NT...... {I'm not big on quoting the Bible, but your take on what the Bible says stands to be corrected.}

"It is what comes out of a person that defiles. For it is from within, from the human heart, that evil intentions come: fornication, theft, murder, adultery, avarice, wickedness, deceit, licentiousness, envy, slander, pride, folly. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person." (NRSV, Mark 7:20-23) 

"The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God." (NIV, Galatians 5:19-21)

"Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins people commit are outside their bodies, but those who sin sexually sin against their own bodies. Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies." (TNIV, 1 Corinthians 6:18-20)

"It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control your own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the pagans, who do not know God;" (TNIV, 1 Thessalonians 4:3-5)


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

freegirl,

I doubt that you are coming back as you seem to be a drive by poster, but I want to respond to your post. 

It's not your abstinence pledge that led to a quick divorce. 

If you stayed around here long enough to read a lot of threads you would find out that sex before marriage is very often no predictor of what sex will be like after marriage or if a person will be attracted to their spouse after marriage.

A large number of the threads here are written by men and women who had sex before marriage that was great... and this changed upon marriage or very shortly thereafter.

I've been through it myself with a husband who did the same thing you did... withdrew sexually immediately after marriage.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> I've been through it myself with a husband who did the same thing you did... withdrew sexually immediately after marriage.


I'm sorry that happened to you.



EleGirl said:


> sex before marriage is very often no predictor of what sex will be like after marriage


Or is sex before marriage a fairly accurate measure, that some find difficult to interpret?

If sex is very infrequent when first dating say twice a week and less and the orgasms are either absent or seldom occurring. It is very likely that after marriage sex will probably get worse.

I wonder if some misinterpret poor sex while dating for great or acceptable sex while dating?

All things being healthy (physically and mentally) if a couple (significantly the woman, yet not forgetting the man) isn't enjoying orgasm at bare minimum most although preferably almost all of the time, while having sex during dating. It's fair to expect that they will experience growing sexual frustration after marriage, especially if one of them hoped for more or grew to desire more along the way.

Of course when one or all of the partners are learning, it's expected that they may fumble before getting there. That said, if you aren't having lots of orgasms after a few weeks of playing like bunnies, one or both of you is doing it wrong.

If that can't be fixed fairly soon one or both of will probably face years of disappointment if they continue their relationship.

Those idealists who save themselves or wait till they're married for whatever reason can win the lottery and (with all other things being wonderful) have a fulfilling long term sexually fulfilling marriage.

Unfortunately like all gamblers, idealists don't always win, and find themselves (with all other things being wonderful) the best platonic housemate they could have ever hoped for.

On the other hand, sex before marriage is a far better predictor of the sex you may get in a marriage than having none at all. Of course that path does not guarantee a great marriage. The key point is that at least with trying before you buy you will have some idea of what is on offer rather than none at all.

It's also important to remember that when one tries before they buy. They shouldn't keep the item if it's found to be faulty or doesn't perform as advertised.

If she plays dead after a few go's she's not going to perform properly or you can't get her there. If you find yourself faking it after a few go's, it will probably take him a couple of decades to get you there.


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## TerraldTheTerror (Jun 3, 2014)

I thought I was the only one that had been effect negatively by abstinence! My story is a little different from yours but having my husband abstain before marriage has only created chaos now that we are married! To each their own, maybe abstinence does work for some but I think that people should keep in mind that times change...people don't get married as young as they did in those times, so the rules have changed. Marriage is a lot more complicated and isn't assumed these days and sometimes can be harder to obtain. 

Abstaining and sex shaming has only created negative feelings about sex in my marriage. I wish that people didn't always believe that things are so black and white and would look at the context of individual relationships. 

Had that negativity not been brought upon us, we would have a perfect sex life! It was perfect before we stopped having sex and now all the positivity has been sucked out of it. Now we're married and have so many problems because of the abstinence beforehand. But at least having been able to have sex with him before we got married, I was able to discover that we're certainly compatible...if there wasn't all the negativity and shame attached. Basically, it's hard to be into sex, even when you're married...when before you got married, sex was turned into this dirty, bad, shameful thing that shouldn't be happening.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> freegirl,
> 
> I doubt that you are coming back as you seem to be a drive by poster, but I want to respond to your post.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree:

My husband and I did have sex before marriage(but I made him wait until I was ready, since he was my first and only), but it changed after our wedding day. The abstinence pledge was not the reason for the quick divorce. 

Abstinence is fine, but that is where communication comes in. It's so important to talk about sex before marriage among many other topics, which doesn't always seem to happen.


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

chillymorn said:


> married Jesus?
> 
> never heard it put that way. And I read the bible cover to cover


I guess you didn't go to Catholic school.

The church is Christ's "bride" and we are married to him. Nuns marry Jesus when they become nuns. Priests can't have families because they are "married" to the church.

Creepy.


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

Thound said:


> I dont know how man screwed up " religous" sex life. Paul talks about husbands and wives giving each other pleasure with sex. God created sex to be pleasurable between a husband and wife. Some how the message got really obscured.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If the definition of sex is "married heterosexual couple in missionary with no contraception in order to make babies" then the Bible is "cool" with sex but that's not how the real world operates.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

For a better married sex life everyone would be better served by trying before they buy.

If the item works feel free to keep it, if it doesn't work make sure you return it.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

Lol my wife and I had amazing sex until we got married.....


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Sbrown said:


> Lol my wife and I had amazing sex until we got married.....


Did she really have amazing sex? You may have been while she may not have been.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

Personal said:


> Did she really have amazing sex? You may have been while she may not have been.


Lol well the sheets would be soaked in an area the size of bigger than a basketball....and I'm pretty sure she wasn't peeing on me lol.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

chillymorn said:


> hmm,
> 
> did you ever sit down with him as married adults and comunicate that you need kissing and foerplay or did you think that he should have known?
> 
> ...


Perhaps she did. But I think her point is that they didn't know the spark wasn't there as a result of not being wholly intimate prior to marriage.

I think most of us can confidently say that, throughout our lives, we've dated people who we thought might be a great match, but when it came to "x" or "y", it didn't pan out that way. Sometimes the "x" or "y" is sex.

Sometimes it's fixable. Other times it's an epiphany for one or both partners. "Holy ****, I married my father". There's no going back from that.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

EleGirl said:


> freegirl,
> 
> I doubt that you are coming back as you seem to be a drive by poster, but I want to respond to your post.
> 
> ...


I don't disagree with you, but is it not possible that she and her husband just weren't good together, sexually?

I haven't had a lot of girlfriends in my life, but I can tell you that more than one just didn't do it for me (or me for them), even though everything else was good. I've been there, and I think most of us have been there. My wife says I'm the best she's ever had. My ex wife would likely put me on the other end of that stick. I didn't suddenly learn how to have sex after my divorce.

But I get what you're saying, and I agree - sex changes. It can actually be better than what you had before marriage in some cases. It can be better at 50 than at 30. It's constantly evolving, ebbing and flowing, peaks and valleys.

OP might very well have given up too soon, however if you get that feeling of not being compatible, it's likely true.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Sbrown said:


> Lol well the sheets would be soaked in an area the size of bigger than a basketball....and I'm pretty sure she wasn't peeing on me lol.


Soaking the sheets is no indication that a woman has had an orgasm and or has enjoyed amazing sex.

While my wife and I were dating each other, she quickly discovered by accident that she can squirt through penetration. I can assure you she didn't orgasm from that, in fact at the time she was rather embarrassed by it all.

As it turns out she sometimes squirts (which she prefers to avoid where possible), otherwise she tends to often produces a significant gush. Yet despite this, that mess has never been coincident with her having an orgasm.

Having an orgasm at the same time as a notable squirt or a significant gush, is far less common than squirting/gushing before an orgasm is reached or had at all.

I am not saying your wife didn't have amazing sex with you.

I am just saying that, even if someone felt they had amazing sex it doesn't necessarily mean that their partner experienced the same.


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> In the OT, sex out side of marriage (fornication) is punishable by death.
> 
> Do you remember anywhere that Jesus said to go out and have sex outside of marriage? I don't.
> 
> ...



seems you missed 
John 8:7
So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

I think Jesus' own word trumps your quotes regarding adultery.

Do I need to find the "go and sin no more" quote for you too?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

murphy5 said:


> seems you missed
> John 8:7
> So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
> 
> ...


Um I posted that a long time ago.. but I do believe I was talking about fornication and not just adultery.

I listed quotes from the NT that name fornication as a sin. These include a quote of what Jesus said. 

What you quoted as to do with forgiveness.

"go and sin no more" means to stop sinning. IT does not mean that a person can just keep doing the same sin.

If you choose to ignore part of the Bible, that's your choice.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

Personal said:


> Soaking the sheets is no indication that a woman has had an orgasm and or has enjoyed amazing sex.
> 
> While my wife and I were dating each other, she quickly discovered by accident that she can squirt through penetration. I can assure you she didn't orgasm from that, in fact at the time she was rather embarrassed by it all.
> 
> ...


Well she claimed she did, all the indicators are there, all I can do is assume she's telling the truth. If she lied then that's on her, I can't really demand a lie detector over it. The fact of the matter is I got bait and switched, now what I do with that is on me. The good thing is she has screwed the **** out of me for the past couple of nights. Will it last, who knows, I'm gonna enjoy it, and not question anything....


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Sbrown said:


> The good thing is she has screwed the **** out of me for the past couple of nights. Will it last, who knows, I'm gonna enjoy it


Good for you, I'm glad you're enjoying it.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Sbrown is right.

And I can tell you I have gushed without an orgasm. It was great but it wasn't an O


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Yet another (sad) example of how religion can be detrimental to our lives.

The Almighty has given us ONE life. If anyone has a direct line into Him please ask Him this;

'Lord, would you rather your children abstained from sex before marriage then were very unhappy because there was no spark and divorce....or....allow them to make sure they are fully compatible, including sexually, before committing to each other but be happily united till death do they part?'


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

You prove to me that premarital sex guarantees compatibility and I will give you $1000.

Your rant is against religion rather than being pro marriage. Premarital sex and cohabitation do nothing to promote long term happy marriages.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

I remember one night at the bar, this attractive female was giving me "come talk to me" eyes...so I did

She was cool, we drank and talked for hours, had a great time...then she told me that she was waiting until marriage for sex...are you serious...she was...NO she wasnt a virgin, she was in fact previously very promiscuous and all that got her were one night stands....so, no not even after dating a while, she is a born again virgin and waiting for marriage...I looked her in the eye, verified that she wasnt kidding, and I turned and walked away, not even a word

wtf...seriously...
When I was 20 I SWORE I would NEVER marry a woman I had not lived with for a while and certainly not one I had not had sex with...you are taking a HUGE gamble with either one, especially the sex...can you imagine discovering on your wedding night your spouse REFUSES to perform oral, or be on top, or whatever...buh bye


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## Jetranger (May 31, 2013)

missthelove2013 said:


> , she was in fact previously very promiscuous and all that got her were one night stands....so, no not even after dating a while, she is a born again virgin and waiting for marriage...I looked her in the eye, verified that she wasnt kidding, and I turned and walked away, not even a word


Walked? Run!!! There are few better things than hearing that a woman used to do all sorts of stuff with previous guys but won't with you.


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## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

In my experience, having sex with someone does not determine the relationship.

I've dated a lot of women in my time but only been really chemically attracted to two of them. When I say that, I mean that there's a real sexual spark or energy between us. That's not to say that I didn't find others I dated attractive because I did. I'm speaking solely about that amazing attraction and connection you feel with only a few people.

In both cases I had sex with them and in neither case was it a predictor of whether or not the relationship would last. In fact, one could argue that sex with my college girlfriend only served to keep us together much longer than we should have been because we really weren't compatible in many other ways aside from sex.

My now W and I however, were compatible in every other way and I didn't need to have sex with her to determine that. The sexual energy and attraction we had for one another was almost scary intense. Short of her being a total prude, our sex was almost guaranteed to be good. 

In OP's case, it sounds like there was no real sexual attraction to begin with. One doesn't need to have sex to know that there's real sexual energy or sexual spark. 

As an aside, I've never really had bad sex with someone. In my experience, the act of intercourse itself is pretty much the same thing from person to person. Yes, some can move a little better than others but Ben Franklin's statement about all cats being grey in the dark has some merit. 

The point is that the best sex, by far, occurred when real sexual attraction and energy existed. How turned on both partners are is much more important in determining if sex was good or not. In my experience anyway.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

testpilot21 said:


> Walked? Run!!! There are few better things than hearing that a woman used to do all sorts of stuff with previous guys but won't with you.


hell...I am single and dating a lot, but checked out a few date sites...just for gits and shins...and I would say about 98% of the women go out of their way, at least twice per add, to tell prospective wallets they dont want sex, they arent a hook up, they arent looking for sex...I ignore these adds...not that sex is all im after, but if a woman feels the need to state it, chances are she is a dead f***...i mean seriously, we know we arent typicaly gonna get 1rst date nookie...thats why we do 3 dates...


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

freegirl said:


> Soon after our divorce, he got remarried to someone who suits him better than I ever could have. And years later, I can confirm that I am not that woman who has no interest in sex. I don’t quilt. I haven’t compiled a grocery list in bed in years, and I now know that sex can be amazing … with a bartender who only knows your first name, a pilot you meet on vacation in Costa Rica and yes, with the right guy – sex in a marriage can be beautiful. The key is to figure that out before you find yourself walking down an aisle in a dress that costs more than the family car (my mother has since reminded me). It isn’t the most important thing when it comes to love. But for me, I learned that sex is important enough not to wait.


:scratchhead:


So......

You vowed to be a virgin till marriage..spent three years with a boyfriend and never got to know if you were sexually compatible....sex life in the marriage was horrible...you got divorced....

....and now you're a promiscuous member of the Mile High Club?


Just what are we supposed to learn from this?


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> :scratchhead:
> 
> 
> So......
> ...


That a man will recieve what he tolerates.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

treyvion said:


> That a man will recieve what he tolerates.


Oh.


Okay.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

Mostlycontent said:


> In my experience, having sex with someone does not determine the relationship.
> 
> I've dated a lot of women in my time but only been really chemically attracted to two of them. When I say that, I mean that there's a real sexual spark or energy between us. That's not to say that I didn't find others I dated attractive because I did. I'm speaking solely about that amazing attraction and connection you feel with only a few people.
> 
> ...


great sex might not MAKE the relationship, but BAD sex will surely destroy it...for most anyways


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## mace85 (Mar 12, 2012)

Thound said:


> I dont know how man screwed up " religous" sex life. Paul talks about husbands and wives giving each other pleasure with sex. God created sex to be pleasurable between a husband and wife. Some how the message got really obscured.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Likely the twisting of words and intentions during some long ago quest for ultimate power over a populations life. That's historically how most things with religion went wrong.


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## mace85 (Mar 12, 2012)

seyqaer said:


> I was 14 years old when I married Jesus. I mean Jesus Christ,



Yes. But did you have sex before that marriage?


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## committed_guy (Nov 22, 2011)

Plus, ****ing, one.

This was essentially my wife and I except we haven't gotten to the divorce part. We didn't know each other when we were married but thought we were supposed to.

My point is that when it comes to faith and marriage what good is faith when you do not practice the commands of a particular religion? If a spouse says they are Christian do they give authority of their body to their spouse? Do they submit to the other out of reverence of Christ? Do they constantly forgive and never hold a debt against their spouse? My guess is that if all so-called Christians practiced what their book teaches then divorce within "professing" Christians would be below non-Christians rate.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

While I don't necessarily ascribe to the idea that the answer lies into trial sex runs, there does however need to be a high degree of familiarity established with a potential mate. 

Personally, I don't think I would ever allow my daughter to attend an abstinence ceremony of some kind just for the undue pressure that it would place upon her and to place some ridiculous value upon virginity...where marital consummation becomes a shameful thing because her "special virginal status" will be no longer be there. As a father, of course I would be very vigilant over her, but I would hate to have her associate me being lord over her sexuality...as I would be the last person to want to enter into my child's mind on their wedding night. Ugh!!! 

At the same time, I would never allow another male authority figure to prescribe sexual conduct to my female child...that is inappropriate in my mind...especially when our sex/intimacy psyches are so delicate, who wants some stranger to tell your kid who they are sexually? But this is what happens when parents turn a matter that they are uncomfortable over to someone willing to teach their kids about the birds and the bees.

I could see the OP flipping out...especially if there had not been extensive pre-marital counseling on the matter or where she felt comfortable as a sexual person with her husband. Or perhaps she intrinsically knew she was a very sexual person and felt shamed by a sexually conservative spouse: "Honey, stop that! What's gotten into you?!"


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Yea. I don't push the "wait til marriage" thing on my kids. I just push the "wait until you're an adult" and we talk a TON about everything.

I had a friend with similar situation. After the marriage (they both were virgins), he got into porn and some "weird" things (to her they were weird). he was even fired from the church for porn. 

She found out after marrying him that he liked to masturbate a few times a day....and now that she was his wife, he wanted her to watch. Every time. 

I dunno. Sexuality is a HUGE part of a lifetime commitment with another human being. People talk about everything else, why should sex be something you wait to do/deal with until after marriage? no way.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I think now she's just taking back her sexuality.

I get it. Men do it often. Women do too but somehow it makes us wh0res. lol. 

I had one partner before my ex. And sex with my ex was BAAAD. I didn't know good sex, but I knew bad sex. And how I was treated around that...no caring. No romance. No love making. Just a two pump chump. Gross. I knew it was bad. He kept telling me I was the BAD ONE because I had had sex with someone before him (nevermind he used to brag of his conquests). 

When I left him, I had 4 partners in a year. Oh well. I knew them all. Friends. No random dudes. But still. Four. Whatever.

I am 38 and can still count on both hands how many people I've been with...but sometimes for a moment in time, people just go out of character (I'm not a fan of just boinking anyone) and do what they do because they CAN. 

This woman was pledged to Jesus at 14. That's creepy as f7ck to me. What a burden to hold. Then she married and had bad sex EVEN THOUGH she did what she was "told" by the church. I'd feel slighted too. 

My mother always said if you love someone, the sex will be good.(she was a HUGE pusher of waiting until marriage and yet has never told me how old she was when she first had sex. My stepdad also told me years ago how he got more sex out of her BEFORE marriage than after. So...whatever, mom. ) But that's not true! Love doesn't mean good sex. You may "make it work" but never be fulfilled sexually and we ALL KNOW that is a recipe for disaster. I WISH religions would recognize this. 

Sex is important. It's important enough to try out with someone BEFORE a huge commitment like marriage. I'm not saying have sex on the first date, but if you do, whatever. But after people have been dating for a while and have said I love you, and blah blah...sex should be natural.

Waiting, to me, seems unnatural. Those rules are from a book/books that were written by men and in many cases to control women and other groups of people.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

This thread could be very triggering to those who feel they were duped by religious constraints, teachings....I, too, feel the church goes TOO FAR ...to the point of setting young people up for failure...and what has happened to this Original poster... it just shouldn't have been!

One could say I was raised to wait till marriage but as nature has it.. when a boy & girl get together, their hands start roaming after a time..... I did feel guilty for going as far as we did (heavy petting to orgasms) but NOT guilty enough to stop..NO ...that wasn't going to happen!! that would make having a BF misery and torture !... and really.. during that time..I always felt the rules were rather...ridiculous....I had no desire to be as pure as the driven snow.

I played this over in my head so many times... there was NO THREAT of getting pregnant...I/we felt good about what we did, what we shared together, it bonded us also....yet we still had something new to bring to our wedding night.... My husband didn't mind this...as he was getting enough attention from me.. and what we didn't know.. wasn't hurting us.. 

I suppose others would find us Weird, Crazy... that he didn't take me for the full test drive.. (what a fool of a man)...but we already knew we were "orgasmically" compatible years before we married.... he never had the slightest worry about me.. nor I him.. He knew I loved pleasure, I knew he did too, we were always getting lost in each other... 

I am such a sex hound today, that I worry what if my H looses the use of his Penis or something..(that's what I love)...and you know what.. I will be able to look BACK to that time (for years) where we satisfied each other with our hands and it was ENOUGH.. to me, this is worth something too.. 

I feel there is nothing wrong with having *sexual boundaries* while you date... why does it have to be "ALL OR NOTHING"- I do blame this on the church..the whole purity thing.. it's just not necessary.. it's stringent, almost made to break the rules , surely PUSH THEM.

Enjoy, take pleasure in each other...and KNOW how your partner responds to your touch.. and if you still want to wait to go all the way/ PIV sex...(it's such a personal decision & I wouldn't mock it for those who agree)...though honestly ... I think I would only recommend it to those who are both easily orgasmic (we were) ..then I'd feel it would be less of a problem.

I so care about my sons & daughter, I don't want to see them curse the day they married due to their beliefs (our oldest is a christian)...I wouldn't wish a sexless miserable marriage on anyone, I feel that's on par with infidelity personally (it's betrayal of the marriage vows to love , honor & cherish each other).....yet we try to hold this balancing act to use sex very responsibly...and to wait for love, at the very least...


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

We are sexual creatures. We are bombarded by sex day in and day out on TV, movies, radio and video games.

And yet, we don't talk to our children about it. We ignore it. We say it's dirty and blah blah blah....Society labels people as wh0res and players. We are told it's nasty. People can't even say penis or vagina without giggling and they are grown people!

the eff?

Sexuality is as much as a person as their mental health. It's a beautiful thing. Just have to be careful and safe.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

that_girl said:


> We are sexual creatures. We are bombarded by sex day in and day out on TV, movies, radio and video games.
> 
> And yet, we don't talk to our children about it. We ignore it. We say it's dirty and blah blah blah...


 But we know we are not those type of parents, right ! Though I still feel there is a time and a place..



> Society labels people as wh0res and players. We are told it's nasty. People can't even say penis or vagina without giggling and they are grown people!


 Ok ...how about this....If you or myself had a big shot Husband ,let's say he was a Boss...and he had a hot secretary.. she dressed to the hilts in her tight skirts, and you was a bit worried about him being turned on by her....and here you learn he's been sleeping with her -while he's out of town/ in town after hrs.....how do you think you'd react....besides wanting to kill HIM... how would YOU view this woman (she knew he was married!).... she is GOING TO BE LABELED..the wife is going to slam her into the ground with the ugliest of words ...this can happen in dating too.. 

Your man may be seductively teased by some other woman who has her eye on him...too flirtatious , then he falls & sleeps with her...again you want to kill the BF .... but you are going to have names for her too!

We need more sexual integrity.. and I think less names would be thrown around.. but hey...that's just my opinion. 

IF a man's pursuit in life is to love 'em & leave 'em.. not the marrying type...his motto "no emotional attachments please"... using Craig's list... I'm gonna call him *a Player*... He wants to PLAY and that's all he wants to do.. I would surely separate those types in my head to what I was looking for in a man.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

How about we just stop labeling people and just be who you want to be. lol. It's not hard.

And I still think our society loves to promote sex and make money off sex and then bash anyone who actually enjoys it outside of marriage.

It's a sick, twisted thing.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Ok ...how about this....If you or myself had a big shot Husband ,let's say he was a Boss...and he had a hot secretary.. she dressed to the hilts in her tight skirts, and you was a bit worried about him being turned on by her....and here you learn he's been sleeping with her -while he's out of town/ in town after hrs.....how do you think you'd react....besides wanting to kill HIM... how would YOU view this woman (she knew he was married!).... she is GOING TO BE LABELED..the wife is going to slam her into the ground with the ugliest of words ...this can happen in dating.


I would be so disgusted. I would hardly be able to look at him.

I know some would blame the OW, but I think my fury would go right on my husband. I have put all my trust in him, not other people.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

that_girl said:


> How about we just stop labeling people and just be who you want to be. lol. It's not hard.
> 
> And I still think our society loves to promote sex and make money off sex and then bash anyone who actually enjoys it outside of marriage.
> 
> It's a sick, twisted thing.


I always look deeper than a Label someone is slapped with...we also have to take into consideration WHO is saying it - and why...do they have an agenda.... (sometimes they do)... 

If a girl is low drive and religious, she gets slapped with being a PRUDE..is this OK? Just for an example.. 

Really... .none of us can be boxed and labeled THAT easily... we are far too multi faceted.. we'd burst out of the box..if anyone was paying attention to learn more of us.

Labels not good...I can agree with you, we need to be careful about that...

But speaking up & against wrongful hurtful behaviors in our society ...that harms others, our children...our marriages, this we must do.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

The harm in a marriage comes from within the marriage.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

jld said:


> I would be so disgusted. I would hardly be able to look at him.
> 
> *I know some would blame the OW, but I think my fury would go right on my husband. I have put all my trust in him, not other people.*


JLD.. me and H has had this conversation... we BOTH think exactly LIKE you..

BUt I don't know that we are the norm in this.... I have seen many threads here where the woman is ready to rip some other women's head off for looking at her man the wrong way or flirting with him, and I always felt ...."Darn that is over the top -We don't look at it this way!".. if I can't trust your a$$ when I am not around, we might as well call it quits.. it all comes back to WHAT WE vowed to each other, there would be no HURT deeper than HIS throwing that away...and that's *ON HIM*... just as it would be *ON ME*.. 

No excuses or blame on someone else walking into our lives and giving us a  or lifting a dress..


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> .*if I can't trust your a$$ when I am not around, we might as well call it quits.. *..


:iagree:

With as much as dh and I are apart, all we really have is trust.

I would be absolutely stunned if dh were unfaithful in any way. I don't think I would believe in anything anymore.


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## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

missthelove2013 said:


> great sex might not MAKE the relationship, but BAD sex will surely destroy it...for most anyways


While I don't disagree with you I do wonder how one could have bad sex if the sexual attraction and chemistry is there. That was kind of my point. If there's no sexual spark, then the sex just may not be so good. In that case, a couple shouldn't get married.


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## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> This thread could be very triggering to those who feel they were duped by religious constraints, teachings....I, too, feel the church goes TOO FAR ...to the point of setting young people up for failure...and what has happened to this Original poster... it just shouldn't have been!
> 
> One could say I was raised to wait till marriage but as nature has it.. when a boy & girl get together, their hands start roaming after a time..... I did feel guilty for going as far as we did (heavy petting to orgasms) but NOT guilty enough to stop..NO ...that wasn't going to happen!! that would make having a BF misery and torture !... and really.. during that time..I always felt the rules were rather...ridiculous....I had no desire to be as pure as the driven snow.
> 
> ...


Not sure I follow the portion I highlighted in blue. The Church is merely teaching the Bible, which frowns on any sex outside of marriage. They're not duping anybody.

Are you suggesting that the Church should teach something other than Scripture? I'm not sure I understood your premise.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> JLD.. me and H has had this conversation... we BOTH think exactly LIKE you..
> 
> BUt I don't know that we are the norm in this.... I have seen many threads here where the woman is ready to rip some other women's head off for looking at her man the wrong way or flirting with him, and I always felt ...."Darn that is over the top -We don't look at it this way!".. if I can't trust your a$$ when I am not around, we might as well call it quits.. it all comes back to WHAT WE vowed to each other, there would be no HURT deeper than HIS throwing that away...and that's *ON HIM*... just as it would be *ON ME*..
> 
> No excuses or blame on someone else walking into our lives and giving us a  or lifting a dress..


I think it's pretty natural for a person to have bad feeling, anger , etc towards someone who is throwing themselves at their spouse. This is even more true when an affair actually happens. A person is generally vey angry at their spouse and at the other person. This goes for both men and women when they are cheated on.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Mostlycontent said:


> Not sure I follow the portion I highlighted in blue. The Church is merely teaching the Bible, which frowns on any sex outside of marriage. They're not duping anybody.
> 
> Are you suggesting that the Church should teach something other than Scripture? I'm not sure I understood your premise.


I'll try to explain.....The age old question so many ask in regards to







... *what is going TOO FAR ??*..."where are these lines when it comes to purity Pastor"? Some french feel kissing is going to far, some feel any touching below the belt is going too far ...some feel PIV is the dividing line.. *Where is this addressed in scripture?* 

Just seems everyone has their own personal interpretations...and there are so many ways to interpret on top of that!

Most of my friends are Christians, our oldest son is a Worship leader, never had a sexual experience, it's against his beliefs.. He is waiting till marriage... He would like to find a like minded women.. I hope he won't get burned..

Oh I could say so much here.. and I did.. but I deleted some of it...

Not everyone is going to agree.. If others want to judge, there is not much we can do...I have strong feelings on some of these things.. like I am sure everyone else does... Given my own experience ...and the judgement I have felt on both sides for even speaking about it...

I was foolish enough to speak of what we did while dating on a Christian forum and Wow did I get eaten alive, told to repent, some of it is a little fuzzy to me now...but there was a great feeling of judgment upon me.... they took something that I / we felt GOOD about -what we shared...and trampled on it.. made it something ugly ..that I should have felt DIRTY before God....

And how many of those so willing to take the speck out of my eye.. how far did they go...many christians couldn't handle their hormones either...despite what scripture says...and really, when these scriptures were written, they married so much younger...

Much of this comes down to -whether one believe the Bible was inspired by GOD ...and whichever interpretation they take.. or one who feels Man has written scripture..to keep order, control.. after all, rampant sexuality in those times -no men would know who the father was.. it WAS a HUGE deal back then. 

But yeah... I do think the church's purity stance is setting our kids up for shaming, repression ...for the hormones God instilled in them.. the church has REALLY fallen down on the job here -to where the vast majority -even in the pews - it just can't be maintained as purely as they SPEAK IT..they shy away and condemn the GREY areas.. we should be talking about them... 

I read an article on masturbation from the Marriagebed.org (the Christian forum) that said young boys -in their state of arousal dealing with their hormones should concentrate on what is good , pure and loving... the sound of a bubbling stream.. etc..(anything but curvy beautiful unclothed women in their heads -this is sinning after all)....even suggesting thinking of Jesus swinging a hammer.. Now I don't know about you...and I'm not a guy ... but come on now.. [email protected]#$ who is not in touch here.. do you really think teens could or WOULD even take that seriously ?? No, so the hiding begins ...telling himself he is Bad for his sexual thoughts...(even if he doesn't do anything physically, he feels tainted already ....for what is churning in his head - and he starts down the road of SHAME... Even our christian son laughed.. it's not realistic...

I don't see anything wrong with some healthy experimentation while dating it's a part of getting to know each other...and if one is a Christian..by all means... wait until marriage ...you choose your sexual boundaries.. I know of a couple where they waited for their 1st kiss.. she was a Pastors Daughter, he was going to Be a Pastor.. could I do that, would I want too.. [email protected]#$ .. but they did.. and from all I can see, 2 or 3 little girls later, they are happy!..

For us.. it was waiting for the fusion.. his going In.. this , to me, was our "becoming ONE"... 

You could say we rode the fence.. I don't know...


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

The church is oppressive and uses guilt to control in my experience growing up in an Evangelical church and missionary family friends. No thanks.


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## committed_guy (Nov 22, 2011)

Mostlycontent said:


> Not sure I follow the portion I highlighted in blue. The Church is merely teaching the Bible, which frowns on any sex outside of marriage. They're not duping anybody.
> 
> Are you suggesting that the Church should teach something other than Scripture? I'm not sure I understood your premise.


Most churches do a a really lousy job of teaching the bible. When was the last time you heard a sermon on sex that included "spouses do not refuse each other" ? Lots of sermons taught on the evil of pre-marital or extra marital, but I have never heard it said it is a sin to refuse.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I was taught in the church to not have sex before marriage because then I'll go to hell.


Yea. What a nice, honest, compassionate talk. 

I was 12 at that time, teetering between believing and not believing. I remember around that time of my youth group days, and learning about things regarding our body and what to never do with our body because the bible says not to or we'll go to hell (truth or not, I dunno...don't care to know...it was how it was presented to me)...I stopped believing.

I won't "believe" in something that is based in fear and guilt. I got enough of that from my mom.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

We have not raised our kids with religion. Dh and I grew up Catholic, and certainly have been affected by the moral teachings of the Church, though. 

Someone even told me recently that dh and I basically have a Christian marriage. I took that as a compliment.

I don't care what my kids think about religion, though I really hope they will not get sucked into any kind of fundamentalist thing, if they do go the route of religion. I don't think they will, though, as we are politically liberal and value reason-based thinking.

I do think morality is important, though, namely Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. 

I don't want my kids to use anyone. I want them to treat the opposite sex as they would want to be treated. 

I know that sometimes love dies out, but I would at least like to see them start a relationship with a sincere love for the other person.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

But those aren't religious desires for your children.

Those are things that good people just do.

I've known people in the church who are completely cruel and mean-hearted. I've known atheists who would give me the shirt off their back.

I exposed my children to all sorts of religions. Mostly eastern ones, but the exposure is there. I am in tune with nature and so I expose my children to that too. No forcing. I was forced to go to church. FORCED to pray outloud (omg horrible). FORCED to sit in a room with people my age to learn about all the ways we'll go to hell-- and then sing songs about Jesus. 

Just...no.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I hear you, that_girl. Control and fear.

My dad was a strict Catholic. Eleven kids. My mom was totally worn out from all those pregnancies.

We never missed Sunday mass, and had to kneel down every night for the night prayer. Hail Mary, Our Father, Act of Contrition, and probably another Hail Mary or two thrown in there. No meat on Ash Wednesday and Fridays during Lent. I actually had to put leftover pizza that I was warming up on a Friday back in the fridge once when my dad saw it.

I was scared to death of dying and going to hell when I was growing up. I was not sure I would make the 51% cutoff point for being good enough to escape it. 

Nope, not interested in being controlled or having more fear and guilt thrown at me. Unfortunately, I already provide a lot of that for myself, thankyouverymuch.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

You provide it because that's what you were trained to do as a kid.

I was evangelically raised and went to Catholic school for 9 years. (And not being Catholic meant I was treated differently than everyone. Then my parents divorced and HOLY WOW! hahahaha.....Some "Love thy neighbor" people they were 
Holy crap. lol.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Yep, you find out who people really are when they go through tough times.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

committed_guy said:


> Most churches do a a really lousy job of teaching the bible. When was the last time you heard a sermon on sex that included "spouses do not refuse each other" ? Lots of sermons taught on the evil of pre-marital or extra marital, but I have never heard it said it is a sin to refuse.


Mine did, which seems uncommon. You could hear a pin drop during those sermons (in a church where that usually is not the case). The discomfort (possibly conviction) was palpable.

The issue is many people resist the spirit of this instruction. They convince themselves they are exempt from this standard. Blame is laid on the spouse for not being deserving or on life schedules for being too busy.

Sometimes you see the need of the man blamed. He is called a pervert. Or, more subtly, there is an attitude that acknowledges her responsibility. But, it asserts she gets put in a Catch-22. She has to choose between sex she does not want or being a sinner. It is better for him to suck it up so she can not worry about sex with a clean conscience.

And, of course, there is that "dead fish" sex. My point is that even if the churches did preach it regularly, it probably would not matter much. People who resist will continue to do so and rationalize their behavior no matter what is taught.


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## committed_guy (Nov 22, 2011)

DTO said:


> Mine did, which seems uncommon. You could hear a pin drop during those sermons (in a church where that usually is not the case). The discomfort (possibly conviction) was palpable.
> 
> The issue is many people resist the spirit of this instruction. They convince themselves they are exempt from this standard. Blame is laid on the spouse for not being deserving or on life schedules for being too busy.
> 
> ...


You said it better than I could ever.


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## Jetranger (May 31, 2013)

missthelove2013 said:


> hell...I am single and dating a lot, but checked out a few date sites...just for gits and shins...and I would say about 98% of the women go out of their way, at least twice per add, to tell prospective wallets they dont want sex, they arent a hook up, they arent looking for sex...I ignore these adds...not that sex is all im after, but if a woman feels the need to state it, chances are she is a dead f***...i mean seriously, we know we arent typicaly gonna get 1rst date nookie...thats why we do 3 dates...


I’m noticing that too. I know there’s a significant minority of vulgar dudebros out there ruining it for the rest of us with obscene messages and **** pics. However, these assertions that they’re not an easy lay and so forth sound extremely bitter, cynical and dare I say it: damaged. I think that because women hold all the cards on dating sites, they figure they can say anything they like and still get male attention (and there’ve been numerous experiments done by blogs and websites that prove this). 

But seriously, is this really the first impression you want to give people, that you’ll hold them at arm’s length as well as responsible for your baggage?

A dead *ahem*… never heard it called that before, but it would describe one woman that I went out with for a while from a dating site.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Three dates. Dang. 

I don't have sex in 3 dates. Good grief. lol. 

But I'm not a dead fish


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