# How important is it anyway.....



## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

Sex in a marriage is what I am talking about. After reading tons of posts on this forum how marriages are falling apart, spouses are leaving, cheating and complaining all because of no sex. But then after reading the "Sex is the only thing left" thread in the Men's Clubhouse it left me confused. How can a marriage be terrible but the sex great?

This makes me start to think.... how important is sex is a marriage? Is a better relationship emotionally and mentally more important than a physical relationship? Can a good sex life makes the "bad" in your relationship seem small, or can a great relationship make the lack of sex seem not so important?

My own Husband and I went through a phase of very little sex when our kids were small, but he told me that he was so completely happy with me in every other aspect of our relationship that he would not even consider leaving me. He told me that he was prepared to take care of himself for the rest of his life if that is what it meant he had to do to stay married to me. 

Is this a common thought processes for most spouses who stay in a sexless marriage or is my husband a small part of the population in his thinking? For myself I really don't know how I would feel now that I have resolved my lack of desire issues if my marriage stayed in the low sex frequency it was back then.


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## Married&Confused (Jan 19, 2011)

haven't read the thread you mentioned but you have to look at it from a guy's perspective.

guys need sex for love, women need love for sex. (generalization I know but probably more true than not). so even if there is no "love", unless the guy absolutely can't stand the woman, he'll be willing to have sex with her. And sometimes that uncommitted sex is the best.

but I think that guys who think they can take care of themselves in a sexless marriage are fooling themselves. it may work for a while but eventually, if you have a wife who is mentally and physically capable of having sex, the anger and frustration will build and resentment sets in. will it kill the marriage? maybe not. but if you're not meeting his needs chances are he won't meet yours either.


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## EunuchMonk (Jan 3, 2016)

Daisy12 said:


> Sex in a marriage is what I am talking about. After reading tons of posts on this forum how marriages are falling apart, spouses are leaving, cheating and complaining all because of no sex. But then after reading the "Sex is the only thing left" thread in the Men's Clubhouse it left me confused. How can a marriage be terrible but the sex great?
> 
> This makes me start to think.... how important is sex is a marriage? Is a better relationship emotionally and mentally more important than a physical relationship? Can a good sex life makes the "bad" in your relationship seem small, or can a great relationship make the lack of sex seem not so important?
> 
> ...


Everyone is different. I think many look for a one size fits all in relationships, like a formula that can work in any and every relationship. Not happening! Some cheat with what many would consider a good sex life.

I heard on a relationship radio program of a couple who used to have sex every day. The wife got pregnant, had the child, and they started having sex three times a week. He was asking the host if he should cheat because it's not enough! A lot of men called in and read him the riot act as you can imagine.

Another man called in and said he'd been in a sexless marriage for ten years and hadn't cheated once.

The "Sex is the one thing left" thread's OP said they have sex only about once a week. Something that some HD would find insufficient. I think your husband is a small part of the population though.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Oh boy, you are opening a can of worms with this one :grin2:

I am sure everyone has their own opinion on the importance of sex in a marriage. Just speaking solely for myself, sex is a very important part, it is one of the few things where when you commit to a monogamous relationship you are essentially saying I will get sex from nowhere else. Sex helps me build the overall connection with my W, so without it there would definitely be a gap in our relationship. If there is no sex, well, then you are really just roommates.

I know for myself, I cannot be happy in a relationship where there is no sex, no matter how well other aspects of the relationship are going.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Daisy I think your husband is simply a very wise man for having reassured you so well. After all, how confident would you feel in his love had he admitted to being horribly conflicted both loving you and wanting you yet feeling continually marginalized? You've got a wise husband!

But having experienced a sexless marriage, and a not so good marriage while having a kick ass sex life I will attempt to answer from my POV.

Once I addressed my issues and became completely enamored of great sex I wanted sex all the time, and my husband happily obliged. However our relationship remained strained for a long time. I can't really say why he stayed when he was stuck in a completely sexless marriage. He claims he accepted it and understood that this was just how life worked. (A POV I could never be content with) Our kick ass sexlife was the only thing holding us together. Our many years together and our genuine fondness for one another was not something easily pushed aside, but I had many many moments of feeling completely ready to do just that. Two things gave me pause. How would I support myself? and... How would I get my sex drive taken care of being single and generally uncomfortable with men? At one point my husband and I even discussed divorcing but continuing to regularly have sex together...seemed reasonable at the time. I think if I had had no sex drive we absolutely would have divorced and been happy alone.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Daisy12 said:


> Sex in a marriage is what I am talking about. After reading tons of posts on this forum how marriages are falling apart, spouses are leaving, cheating and complaining all because of no sex. But then after reading the "Sex is the only thing left" thread in the Men's Clubhouse it left me confused. How can a marriage be terrible but the sex great? *It's just like the reverse situation - you're constantly torn between the good and the bad, the adequate and the inadequate, at least until something changes and you reach clarity.*
> 
> This makes me start to think.... how important is sex is a marriage? *Essential - at least for me. Or, it's essential that we are similar in our views and desires.*
> 
> ...


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

Married&Confused said:


> but if you're not meeting his needs chances are he won't meet yours either.



You know you are very right in looking back with this statement. My husband was always kind, but over the year I have come to him about meeting some more of my emotional needs and it has falling on deaf ears. He would give me that, I'm not a romantic guy answer. I always excepted it as the way it was as my husband is kind, considerate and a great husband and father. Would not in any way leave because he was not romantic.

Having had issues in our marriage the last 6 months that has opened my eyes to the kind of sexual relationship my husband really craved from me, it was not all quantity he wanted, but quality sex. I have really amped up my end of our sex life and low and behold I am starting to see him make so much more of an effort to being romantic and saying nice things to me, complimenting me..etc 

I wish I had of known this is all I had to do years ago and I would have worked harder to get over my shyness with sex and my body. Cause now I'm getting the emotional things from him I need and we are having fantastic sex to boot.. its a win all situation. There really should be book people are made to read before getting married...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

This is a good question. The answer to it depends on the people involved. Everyone is different.



Daisy12 said:


> Sex in a marriage is what I am talking about. After reading tons of posts on this forum how marriages are falling apart, spouses are leaving, cheating and complaining all because of no sex. But then after reading the "Sex is the only thing left" thread in the Men's Clubhouse it left me confused. How can a marriage be terrible but the sex great?


Sex is important in marriage. It is not the only think that is important. How can sex be good and everything else bad? That’s easy. You have two people who like sex and can separate it from the rest of their relationship. So the bad relationship does not affect their sex.




Daisy12 said:


> This makes me start to think.... how important is sex is a marriage?


Sex is important in a marriage because it is the most intense bonding that a couple can do. Humans are chemical engines. The things we feel.. happy, sad, angry, love, etc are all really little more than a chemical reaction.
Being in-love, bonded and feeling passion for another person are all tied up with the brain’s production and uptake of hormones like oxytocin and dopamine. When a couple has sex, both of their bodies produce large amounts of oxytocin and dopamine. That’s why we feel so good and usually very close to our lover when we have sex. Dopamine makes us feel very good, high really. Oxytocin bonds us and give us that in-love feeling. Oxytocin is also called the amnesia hormone, meaning that it does make us see things through rose colored glasses. It makes women forget the worst of the pain that they experience in child birth. It makes people overlook/forgive relationship problems and flaws in their spouse.

Non-sexual intimacy also causes the human brain to make and uptake dopamine and oxytocin, etc. However, not at the intense rate that sex does.

Oxytocin accumulates over time. And when a person does not have sex for a long time, it the level of oxytocin falls to very low levels. Studies have shown that when a woman does not have regular sex with a mate, her oxytocin levels fall so low over time that she gets to the point of not wanting to be touched.
When you hear a person going on and on about how awful their spouse is, they cannot do anything rights, it’s most likely because their oxytocin levels have fallen so low that the rose colored glasses have come off. There have been studies done with couples who are at this stage. In the studies, the researchers administer oxytocin to the couple via nasal spray. It completely changes how the couple relates to each other and it allows them to be able to work through problems in counseling. There is some talk about using this spray as part of couples counseling in the future.


Daisy12 said:


> Is a better relationship emotionally and mentally more important than a physical relationship? Can a good sex life makes the "bad" in your relationship seem small, or can a great relationship make the lack of sex seem not so important?


I think that this depends on the couple and the individuals in the relationship.
I think that as a general rule, men do not get as much out of non-sexual intimacy as women do. Now your husband might be a guy who does. But a lot of men don’t seem to. So for those men, a great relationship is not enough, they need the sex in order to get the chemical boots to feel good, too feel in-love, etc.
There are also a lot of women married to men who don’t want much sex. And those women often tend to have a problem with the lack of sex, even when the rest of the relationship is good.


Daisy12 said:


> My own Husband and I went through a phase of very little sex when our kids were small, but he told me that he was so completely happy with me in every other aspect of our relationship that he would not even consider leaving me. He told me that he was prepared to take care of himself for the rest of his life if that is what it meant he had to do to stay married to me.


That’s your husband. Not all people are wired that way. Also, he has no clue what he might have felt years up the road if things had not turned about. Sometimes a person can go a long time with their body/brain maintaining oxytocin levels high based on things like non-sexual intimacy, interacting with their children, etc. Then one day, out of nowhere, those levels drop and with no sex, or little sex, to bring them up, suddenly the rose colored glasses come off. Then they see every flaw that their spouse has and they are looking at other potential partners.


Daisy12 said:


> Is this a common thought processes for most spouses who stay in a sexless marriage or is my husband a small part of the population in his thinking? For myself I really don't know how I would feel now that I have resolved my lack of desire issues if my marriage stayed in the low sex frequency it was back then.


You would probably come to a time when you did not want him to touch you, even non-sexually. Your rose colored glasses would have come off and you would have seen him a very flawed and an annoyance at best. AT least that’s what normally happens given enough time.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

I guess it's kind of like having a handicapped child.
Some parents leave each other because of it. Some parents disown the child and have the state take care of them 24/7 in a home. Some learn to change their lives to adapt to the handicapped child. 

My worst fear as a teenager was having a mentally handicapped child and now I have one. A 22 year old woman that carries a blanket and doll around while out and about. She looks completely normal, but has brain damage due to lack of oxygen during birth.

We have two other typical children that are going to college.

If anything it has made our marriage stronger. She will be with us till the day we die and we have adapted our lives to accommodate her. She drives us nuts sometimes but at the end of the day, we love her with a love I cannot even begin to explain. A love I would never have fully understood without her.

So, you can let the lack of sex destroy your marriage or adapt to the reality of it all.

The BIG difference is that sex in marriage can possibly be changed while my daughter cannot ever change.

If you can effect change regarding sex, that's great. If you cannot, you must make a decision for yourself. No one person is the same. Some NEED sex, some do not. Determining how great that need is will determine what you're willing to do to get it. 

For me, it was having to change myself and how I interacted with my wife. It has worked. Would I have left my wife if it had not worked? At the time, I WAS seriously considering leaving. That's how important is was to ME. For my wife, I believe she changed her view of sex not because she loves sex but because she was willing to do whatever it took for the family.

In time, she has learned to enjoy sex. Does she love it as much as I do? Probably not, but she does care enough to give it her best effort. That's all anyone can ask for.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Sex is important when the one who wants it the most is not getting it at all....its like anything else when something is denied, then it becomes the 900lb gorilla in the room, even when you don't need it, suddenly we feel as though we are denied something that should be part of our being. Is sex important, in the long run perhaps not but it is the act of taking away something without participating in the conversation, that is the issue. in essence someone in the relationships has complete control over the sexual relationship of the other (except for masturbation)


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> That’s your husband. Not all people are wired that way. Also, he has no clue what he might have felt years up the road if things had not turned about. Sometimes a person can go a long time with their body/brain maintaining oxytocin levels high based on things like non-sexual intimacy, interacting with their children, etc. Then one day, out of nowhere, those levels drop and with no sex, or little sex, to bring them up, suddenly the rose colored glasses come off. Then they see every flaw that their spouse has and they are looking at other potential partners.
> 
> 
> You would probably come to a time when you did not want him to touch you, even non-sexually. Your rose colored glasses would have come off and you would have seen him a very flawed and an annoyance at best. AT least that’s what normally happens given enough time.



I guess I can be glad that we were able to turn our bad sex life around or my husband might have had enough at one point and left. I can not see us ever going back to the way it was back then. The great sex we are having now is not only, well great, but it makes the already wonderful marriage we have now, so much better.


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## wantshelp (Mar 10, 2016)

Daisy12 said:


> The great sex we are having now is not only, well great, but it makes the already wonderful marriage we have now, so much better.


So what are the differences between your old sex life and the newer/great one? I think you mentioned resolving "my lack of desire issues" and "amped up my end of our sex life". Do you know how you solved your desire issues and what did you do to amp it up?


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

I think it's more important that each person in the marriage keep up their physical appearance. Who wants to have sex with an obese person? I think that's why so many people pack on the weight, so they aren't attractive and don't have sex with their spouse. What a horrible way to live.

If a married couple isn't having sex, there's no point in the marriage. Kind of makes you wonder how people are still getting married today. It's a failed concept.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Daisy12 said:


> I guess I can be glad that we were able to turn our bad sex life around or my husband might have had enough at one point and left. I can not see us ever going back to the way it was back then. The great sex we are having now is not only, well great, but it makes the already wonderful marriage we have now, so much better.


In my way of thinking, sex has so many good things about it that why would a person not want it. It's a great exercise. Beats going to the guy. It's makes me feel very very good. Women who have a regular sex life are much healthier than those who don't not only because of the exercise part of it but also because during sex both partners put out chemicals that are absorbed by the other... chemicals that make us healthier. Basically, our bodies are made to do better if we have regular sex.

Now I get that if a person has a spouse who is disrespectful, abusive, dismissive, etc. a self respecting person would not want sex with them. But in an otherwise healthy marriage, why wouldn't someone want sex, a lot of it?

One of the reasons that I divorced was because of lack of sex. My husband did not want sex and would not deal with it. Sex is important. If an otherwise healthy person will not meet their spouses' reasonable sexual desires, then they are not much of a spouse.. it's a form of disrespect. 

Sure sometimes it's hard to find time together when you have small kids. But from everything that I've read, the most common reason for someone not wanting sex with their spouse is that it's a passive aggressive way to punish them for some perceived wrong doing.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> It's a great exercise. Beats going to the guy.


What kinda sex you having  lol


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

wantshelp said:


> So what are the differences between your old sex life and the newer/great one? I think you mentioned resolving "my lack of desire issues" and "amped up my end of our sex life". Do you know how you solved your desire issues and what did you do to amp it up?


I suffered with depression/anxiety and the medication I was on killed my sex drive. It killed it to the point that I could not even have an orgasm when I masturbated myself. I let this go as the medication I was on was working so well and I was functioning really well with taking care of our children and working nights. All I cared about was that I was a happy normal mom for our kids, never thought about my husbands needs.:frown2:

At this point in our life I have fixed the medication problem, our kids are much older and require less of my time. I have increased the frequency, new positions, more dirty talk, texting. I try to look nice at all times, hair, makeup, cloths. I work out to maintain my weight. I am initiating more, letting my husband know how much I desire, want him. I am listening to his fantasies and even acted some out. I have bought lingerie, planned evening alone without the kids... I guess I have really gotten into our sex life as I enjoy it very much and I love to drive my husband wild with wanting me. If I can send him texts all day to turn him on so much that he jumps me as soon as he gets home from work, It makes me feel like the sexiest woman alive. There is much power and pleasure in having a great sex life with your husband... and not just physically pleasure.. it really boosts my self esteem and improves our relationship immensely.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

@Daisy12

Your question is very subjective, so one should try and find sets of data to corroborate theories. If I were to answer the four things in my daily life that are important or happen when I have some "me time" I would argue for these four things in this exact order: Porn, News, Games, & Pizza. 

Using google trends, I can actually see that my behavior is right in line with everyone else using the internet:

https://www.google.com/trends/explore?q=porn,news,game,pizza

I would advise you to play around with google trends and wee what you can discover!

So one thing is for sure, sex is more important than news, games, or pizza!

Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## Randy2 (Jul 19, 2016)

A learned friend of mine (not a monk) once said, "Sex is not the most important thing in a relationship, unless there is no sex."


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

i'm more like your OP husband. I could do without sex if circumstances prevented or inhibited it.
I consider myself medium drive. but i was a single (as in single, single, not sowing my oats) bachelor for many years and
learned how to take care of myself. moreover, i was happy being independent.

but here's the big thing: even though i can do without it, i won't and shouldn't. don't get me wrong, i love sex.
before i got married, i told myself 'well, now i'm going to have to have sex. i'm going to have a wife. it's not about me anymore, it's about WE.
this is why i can't understand and can't accept deniers. don't want sex? guess what? DON"T GET MARRIED!

as a married couple, i believe you need to have sex often. not just because it's fun (it is), not just because it bonds you together (it does), not just because
it makes you feel loved (it does), but because it is that intrinsic, mystical, spiritual, incomprehensible thing that makes marriage.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

Delete


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Today I learned there is a nose spray that makes you like your spouse. 

Thanks elegirl!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

Delete take 2


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

ChargingCharlie said:


> And as I could have predicted, wife informs me when I get home that she just started her period. Never fails.


Can'tr believe you fell for this AGAIN. when are you going to learn it is all a game? You are the mouse and she is the cat toying with you. When will you man up and not be a mouse?

I am a 24 year mouse. It only gets worse. Get out now.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Holdingontoit said:


> Can'tr believe you fell for this AGAIN. when are you going to learn it is all a game? You are the mouse and she is the cat toying with you. When will you man up and not be a mouse?
> 
> *I am a 24 year mouse. It only gets worse.* Get out now.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

The importance of sex varies with the person, and what part of sex is important also varies.

To me, sex is one link in the relationship. Like any link in a chain, it is not the most important, but take it away and things fall apart. What matters most to me is being desired. For instance, I don't feel any trace of resentment if my wife turns be down because she is feeling ill. But I do, or did, if she turned me down with no good reason.

So, I have a "prefect" life. Married to a woman I fell in love with when I was 17,I'm in my 50s now. We both have great jobs (that we enjoy as well as which pay well), travel around the world together, nice house, good friends. We completely trust each other, and get along very well. We are both healthy. 

We have almost no sex life, my wife is LD, almost ND. Imagine a week staying in an ancient palace in Venice for our 25th anniversary and not having sex once. I would have preferred a motel-6 outside of Toledo with passionate lovemaking every night. The lack casts a cloud over everything else and turns love into something between friendship and a business arrangement. 

Its taken a long time, but I've managed to come to grips with my wife's lack of desire not being about *me*. Sex is just not part of her life, not something she wants. With that understanding the sense of resentment is gone, but we feel like brother and sister, not lovers. 

How important is sex? To me, there cannot be romance and love without it. To my wife its a nice thing to do every month or so if there isn't anything she wants to watch on TV. 

Yes, I could easily leave an find someone else, but I've decided not to because on the balance this situation is better than one I am likely to find with someone else.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

ChargingCharlie said:


> And as I could have predicted, wife informs me when I get home that she just started her period. Never fails.


Do you think she knew her period would be arriving any day now, so this was the perfect opportunity to show "interest" in sex?

Not to the same extent, and I don't believe it was ever done with any sort of malice by my W, but reminds me of the times where she would say how much she wanted me (always in the day when the kids were home so nothing was possible), I would get my hopes up, and then by the time the nighttime came and the kids were asleep she was ready to go to bed as well. Like I said, it wasn't done with malice (if we had the house to ourselves at the time she would have definitely tackled me), but the impression I got was that by her saying how much she wanted me that counted as making an effort. I eventually learned that whenever she said this, that pretty much guaranteed nothing was going to happen that day lol.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Anon Pink said:


> Once I addressed my issues and became completely enamored of great sex *I wanted sex all the time, and my husband happily obliged.* However our relationship remained strained for a long time. I can't really say why he stayed *when he was stuck in a completely sexless marriage*. He claims he accepted it and understood that this was just how life worked.


Anon, I don't understand. If you wanted sex all the time, how was he stuck in a sexless marriage?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

uhtred said:


> ... To me, sex is one link in the relationship. Like any link in a chain, it is not the most important, but take it away and things fall apart.
> 
> ...
> 
> Yes, I could easily leave an find someone else, but I've decided not to because on the balance *this situation is better than one I am likely to find *with someone else.


You choose to believe this, but I think it may be based on a false assumption that you can't find someone as good in most ways as well as better when it comes to sex. As you say, take away the sex link and things fall apart - how are you holding it together without this link, BTW? Yes, there is risk in leaving, but there is also opportunity to find a better relationship. I did take the risk, and found a far better relationship in every way. Of course, YMMV.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

And take three


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

ChargingCharlie said:


> Like yours, I think she mentions it so that she can say that she's making an effort.


There are lies, and then there are damned lies.


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## the2ofus (Jan 28, 2014)

I think when you can see there is a reason for the less than desired sex it is easier to deal with it. When they just seem unwilling to even try to give of themselves for your sake its hard to get past.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

VladDracul said:


> Anon, I don't understand. If you wanted sex all the time, how was he stuck in a sexless marriage?


Prior to addressing my issues, I had a sexless marriage by my making.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

EllisRedding said:


> Do you think she knew her period would be arriving any day now, so this was the perfect opportunity to show "interest" in sex?
> 
> Not to the same extent, and I don't believe it was ever done with any sort of malice by my W, but reminds me of the times where she would say how much she wanted me (always in the day when the kids were home so nothing was possible), I would get my hopes up, and then by the time the nighttime came and the kids were asleep she was ready to go to bed as well. Like I said, it wasn't done with malice (if we had the house to ourselves at the time she would have definitely tackled me), but the impression I got was that by her saying how much she wanted me that counted as making an effort. I eventually learned that whenever she said this, that pretty much guaranteed nothing was going to happen that day lol.


It used to be that when I was chasing my wife for sex and she wasn't interested, every day I'd get home and ask how she was I'd get "I'm tired" or "I have a headache" or "I don't feel good". I didn't even mention sex and I got those answers without fail. When I decided to stop expecting sex from her I never got those answers. I honestly think a spouse will unintentionally (unconsciously) put up roadblocks.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Chris Taylor said:


> When I decided to stop expecting sex from her I never got those answers.


But did you actually get sex?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Sex and marriage are not two separate things. You cannot have a marriage without sex being part of it, in whatever way is mutually satisfactory. If it isn't mutually satisfactory then there IS a problem, whether you want to admit it or not. Anyone who disregards their spouses needs as far as sex goes is selfish and deluded, and the marriage is in trouble.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Others have already said this, but sex has a different level of importance to different people. If you are sexually self-aware, meaning you do understand yourself sexually and know your base level likes and dislikes and libido level, then hopefully while seeking a mate you can discuss this with them and see if you are on the same page before committing to a long term relationship.

I think most people would say sex is important in a relationship if asked, but you'd have to ask a potential partner more questions than just that one to find out how often and what kind of sex they specifically want and need....what their preferences are, their kinks if any, fantasies, etc. Two people could both say they think sex is important in a relationship, but have totally different ideas about what kind of sex they each enjoy, so more discussion is needed.

For some people, sex wouldn't be that important (compared to others). And it is great when these people are also sexually self-aware, so that they could say right up front while dating that this is the case for them. That way they could hopefully match up with someone who feels the same. There are many couples who both feel sex is important but they are both LD and may not have sex very often, but that doesn't mean that when they do it isn't loving, pleasurable, and wanted.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> For some people, sex wouldn't be that important (compared to others). * And it is great when these people are also sexually self-aware, so that they could say right up front while dating that this is the case for them.* That way they could hopefully match up with someone who feels the same. There are many couples who both feel sex is important but they are both LD and may not have sex very often, but that doesn't mean that when they do it isn't loving, pleasurable, and wanted.


Hypothetical situation... you are dating a new guy, things are getting heated, how would that conversation ideally go?

I think you once mentioned that guys that claim to be very sexual in reality are not, so many things are somewhat relative. I've also read from some women that are in touch with their sexuality, that men often feel threatened by that and it works better in new relationships for these things to be gradually discovered. 

I do not ever see myself in a new relationship or ever dating again, but the concept of conveying how "in touch and aware" one is with their sexuality while dating seems like an interesting topic. So if a guy were to tell you exactly what you wanted to hear, what would that be?

Badsanta


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

badsanta said:


> So if a guy were to tell you exactly what you wanted to hear, what would that be?
> 
> Badsanta


"Here's a beer you sexy thing. Put your feet up and watch the game, oh and at half time I'm going to screw you silly then serve you a burger in nothing but an apron and a smile then screw you silly again"

OK I know that isn't what you meant.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

badsanta said:


> Hypothetical situation... you are dating a new guy, things are getting heated, how would that conversation ideally go?
> 
> I think you once mentioned that guys that claim to be very sexual in reality are not, so many things are somewhat relative. I've also read from some women that are in touch with their sexuality, that men often feel threatened by that and it works better in new relationships for these things to be gradually discovered.
> 
> ...


Well it's not hypothetical for me. I've had several such conversations in my dating adventures over the past 6 months.

First of all, I have these conversations long before things get heated...before we've kissed for sure.

What I want to hear from the guy is his authentic truth. From that I can decide if we seem compatible enough to continue, and I am very open and transparent so he can also decide if he wants to continue.

I ask about their likes and dislikes, their kinks and preferences, their sexual history (not a play by play with details, just an overview). I ask how important sex is to them and also how important kissing and affection is to them. I answer these types of questions as well.

What I won't know without actually becoming intimate with them is whether they are self aware enough to have answered my questions truthfully or not, or if we are even speaking the same language when we had these discussions.

Example: one guy I dated for a short while had said he is very affectionate and loves kissing. In fact he even said in his profile that one of the things he could never live without is passionate kisses.

But after getting intimate with him it turned out that he rarely wanted to kiss and affection...I'm not even sure what he meant by affection because he sure didn't show it in the ways I was expecting.

I mentioned this to him a few times and he said he was sorry, he does want to be more affectionate and would do better.

No change, and game over.

No hard feelings either, we just had different ideas on what affection means and how important kissing is. 

Onward and upward...


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> What I won't know without actually becoming intimate with them is whether they are self aware enough to have answered my questions truthfully or not, or if we are even speaking the same language when we had these discussions.
> .


I think that it could be either a lack of self-awareness OR, they _are_ aware of how they are, but they figure that they'll reduce their chances of getting sex if they tell us the truth. (Are they simply not being affectionate with US or are they not affectionate with ANYONE?)

But as you wrote, quite often, *we* really won't know any of this until _after_ we've had sex with them. :frown2:


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Vega said:


> I think that it could be either a lack of self-awareness OR, they _are_ aware of how they are, but they figure that they'll reduce their chances of getting sex if they tell us the truth. (Are they simply not being affectionate with US or are they not affectionate with ANYONE?)
> 
> But as you wrote, quite often, *we* really won't know any of this until _after_ we've had sex with them.


In the context I'm talking about, sex is already a "sure thing". Because I'm only dating guys who have the expectation of sex if we are going to get into a relationship. I also make it clear that I expect sex in a relationship and that I won't stick around for less than excellent mutually satisfying sex. 

True I have no idea if the one guy just didn't kiss me or if he rarely kisses others he is having sex with. I also don't care though...I just opted out and that's that.

I have no regrets about having sex with him a few times before I gave up on him. It was fun. Definitely mutually satisfying. But I also found he wasn't as adventurous as I am so beyond those couple of times, I would have not been satisfied even if he had liked kissing more. I only realized that upon reflection after it was over, though. 

Still...no regrets! It was fun and is part of the dating process.

I'm not saying my process or experience reflects that of all or most women and men, though. There are some who don't have sex until much later and I respect that route, too. 

I wouldn't have more than one date with a guy like that though because at this time in my life, a good boyfriend and great sex is my goal. So someone who wanted to wait and take it slowly would spin off very fast. And we would both be better off because we can't give each other what each is seeking.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> Well it's not hypothetical for me. I've had several such conversations in my dating adventures over the past 6 months.


OMG, your story reminds me of a scene that I think was in "I'll See You in My Dreams" where they are doing this speed dating thing with a bunch of guys and gals at a restaurant. Everyone has to switch tables every few minutes, so if you don't get a phone number by then, you move on. 

So this one guy sits down and goes straight into talking about how sex is very important to him and what his expectations are before he even asks for her name. I'm positive that the directors of the film wanted to paint a picture that some men are creeps, as the main actress was appalled by his behavior. I sat there thinking, "gosh it actually would be nice to get that conversation out of the way right off the bat, and then you could invest quality time actually getting to know the person once you know things are compatible." Then I started thinking, OMG I am the creepy man in the movie, I hope to god I never ever have to date again! 










...what I am getting at is that there are probably people out there that have a very high capacity to enjoy sex, but society has likely shamed them and it is not something that will probably come out in an honest way until later on. My wife has shamed me endlessly for my libido, but I do not really let it get to me. I often have to down play it in my own marriage to help her feel more relaxed and receptive. 

I also wanted to mention to you thanks for helping me not feel like a creep if I ever find myself watching this movie again!

Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

badsanta said:


> ...what I am getting at is that there are probably people out there that have a very high capacity to enjoy sex, but society has likely shamed them and it is not something that will probably come out in an honest way until later on. My wife has shamed me endlessly for my libido, but I do not really let it get to me. I often have to down play it in my own marriage to help her feel more relaxed and receptive.
> 
> I also wanted to mention to you thanks for helping me not feel like a creep if I ever find myself watching this movie again!
> 
> ...


I'm sorry you have been shamed for your healthy libido. 

But out in the dating world, highly sexual people gravitate toward each other (if they are self aware and know what they are looking for in a partner and in their own sex lives).

It is not unusual at all to discuss sex right off the bat for those of us who place a high level of importance on it. Those who find this off-putting will quickly fall off the map, and that's as it should be, so they and we can find people who are sexually compatible and not waste time with those who aren't.

I have had these conversations with every man and woman I've been on a date with. By the time a date has been arranged, it is already understood that sex is a high priority for both of us. Usually it says so right there in someone's profile if you are doing online dating.

This doesn't mean that sex will happen on a first date, either. It isn't that we want to rush into sex immediately, it is that we don't want to waste time dating someone who will never be compatible when that is something that can usually be determined upfront by simply discussing it.

Men and women who are highly sexual and who are not ashamed of their sexuality in the dating world handle these conversations very openly and honestly. And for those who have specific preferences or kinks, this is even more important. 

I don't wish for you to ever be dating again Bad Santa...because I know you love your wife and wish to stay married to her. But I hope it helps you to not be ashamed of your libido to understand that there are women who not only wouldn't shame you in the dating world, they would also open the conversation about sex and be happy to find a man who wants a lot of sex.

Same guy who said he liked kissing and affection also said he wanted sex all the time, daily if possible.

This also turned out not to be true, not even close.

He is not self aware. He thinks that because he masturbates every day that he "wants sex" every day. But when faced with the possibility of daily sex, he didn't have the sex drive required to make it happen.

When asked "then why did you say you wanted it daily" he said "well, I guess because I get myself off daily...but yeah actually doing the deed takes a lot more energy and I'm just not always up for it". This is what I mean when I say that some men claim to be highly sexual but really aren't. (A side note: a lot of these men have intimacy issues that run deeper than they are willing to look into themselves for...they don't really understand their own feelings and actions...thus, lack of self awareness).

Then on the other hand, the boyfriend I had for 3 months told me initially that he not only wanted sex daily, he wanted it multiple times daily if possible. I was afraid to get my hopes up for that one...but it turned out to be completely true, and we had sex more often than any partner I've ever been with, and it was so great! I loved it so much! 

The discussions still have to happen, even if a guy is not self aware and there is no way for me to determine this before actually getting intimate with them. For the most part though, I have found guys are telling their truth and are self aware. The non-kisser, non-daily guy was an exception.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Same guy who said he liked kissing and affection also said he wanted sex all the time, daily if possible.
> 
> This also turned out not to be true, not even close.
> 
> ...


I am so glad that you asked the guy about this, and that you're able to pass on this information to us, FW! 

There is such a huge difference between wanting sex every day and wanting an _orgasm_ every day. Sex is one way of achieving an orgasm. Masturbation is another. Sex takes much, MUCH more energy (a.k.a. WORK!) than masturbation, and we're not only talking about the physical energy, but the emotional 'energy', as well. 

For me (and I suspect, a lot of other men and women), I have the physical _ability_ to have sex every day, especially "starfish" sex. But would my 'heart' be into it? Well, not always. In fact, I don't believe that some people who DO have sex as often as they do, are ALWAYS 'into it' when they do. 

Our reasons for having sex are not always on the up-and-up, and sometimes stem from _fear_, more than from actual _desire_ for their partner. Consider a man who will have sex almost every day, and half of the time, he's only doing it so as to not appear 'unmanly' (because ALL men are 'supposed' to want it ALL the time...right?). Or the wife who will have sex to appease her husband (because men want it all the time...right?), only to become depressed later on (and non-sexual), and have no idea _why_. 

It makes me wonder how many people are having sex for the _wrong_ reasons, and what their true sex lives would be like if they had sex for the _right_ reasons.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

You guys need to find better use of your time instead of wondering why people are or not having sex daily, weekly, or why sexless marriages exist. Who cares. Just take care of yourself and make sure you're happy. If you're not, do something about it. If you don't have the balls or energy to do something about it, accept your life sucks and will never be what you wish it was and don't complain. Stop justying to us that having sex 5 times a year is great for you .


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Vega said:


> It makes me wonder how many people are having sex for the _wrong_ reasons, and what their true sex lives would be like if they had sex for the _right_ reasons.


Totally agree with your whole post but wanted to comment on this part from my own experience...when you get to the place of self awareness where you do understand yourself and are having sex for the right reasons (your own reasons), and then you find a partner who is similar in this way, that's when sex is truly amazing.


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## Looking2Change (Jul 24, 2016)

For me sex is at the top of the list of importance in a marriage. It's more or less the only thing we have in our relationship that you can't (shouldn't) share with anyone else. It's a necessity and has been the #1 issue of fighting and resentment in my marriage. it is to the point that I'm on the fence of leaving her because we don't have a sex life. If you want a happy husband then you need to give him sex. Pretty simple.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Vega said:


> For me (and I suspect, a lot of other men and women), I have the physical _ability_ to have sex every day, especially "starfish" sex. *But would my 'heart' be into it? Well, not always. In fact, I don't believe that some people who DO have sex as often as they do, are ALWAYS 'into it' when they do. *


Why does someone having sex have to have their "heart" into it every single time, or be completely into it every single time :scratchhead: You can still have sex with your SO, not be completely into it, but still enjoy it. There are times when I may not be completely into it, but it still feels good, and is better then just laying there doing nothing. I don't think anyone here is expecting that every time they have sex it has to be mind blowing.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Vega said:


> There is such a huge difference between wanting sex every day and wanting an _orgasm_ every day. Sex is one way of achieving an orgasm. Masturbation is another. Sex takes much, MUCH more energy (a.k.a. WORK!) than masturbation, and we're not only talking about the physical energy, but the emotional 'energy', as well.


Hi @Vega I wanted to add some information to Faithful Wife's comment about wanting to masturbate everyday not meaning one is also capable of sex everyday. From a male perspective this has absolutely NOTHING to do with wanting an orgasm. For men it is about self awareness of their refractory period and how it differs from solo sessions and partnered sessions. 

A male experiences a very strong cycle of hormones during partnered sex. The effect of these hormones during the refractory period can be compared to taking a valium. 

Meanwhile solo sex does NOT create this same effect in men as the cycle of male hormones or minimized and some are nonexistent. This means some males are capable of masturbation without any or only a small refractory period. If partnered sex with a male is not a reciprocated event, then the same cycle or hormones is likely to occur as if he only masturbated. An example might be that the wife gives her husband some oral, short amount of PIV, and then he pulls out and finishes things himself because she is not really into it. This is more like assisted masturbation and does not really count as sex with regards to the male refractory period. It may count as sex to you, but not as far as his hormones are concerned. He'll like be ready to go again in as little as fifteen minutes.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

EllisRedding said:


> Why does someone having sex have to have their "heart" into it every single time, or be completely into it every single time
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I totally get your point and I can't argue against the logic of it....but I actually do expect my partner and I both to have our hearts into it every time...and I also expect it to be mind blowing every time. 

But I realize not everyone feels the way I do, and that's why I have lots of discussion about expectations before going there with someone new.

And it's also why I bail quickly if I'm with someone who isn't a match to me that way.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> I totally get your point and I can't argue against the logic of it....but I actually do expect my partner and I both to have our hearts into it every time...and *I also expect it to be mind blowing every time. *
> 
> But I realize not everyone feels the way I do, and that's why I have lots of discussion about expectations before going there with someone new.
> 
> And it's also why I bail quickly if I'm with someone who isn't a match to me that way.


EVERY TIME?



> mind blowing every time.


YEAH BABY BRING IT ON!!!! I'M READY!!!!!!












> And it's also why I bail quickly



(sorry @Faithful Wife I could not resist!)

Badsanta


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> I totally get your point and I can't argue against the logic of it....but I actually do expect my partner and I both to have our hearts into it every time...and I also expect it to be mind blowing every time.
> 
> But I realize not everyone feels the way I do, and that's why I have lots of discussion about expectations before going there with someone new.
> 
> And it's also why I bail quickly if I'm with someone who isn't a match to me that way.


That is fair if that is your expectation (as you mentioned, that is why you are up front about it). In my case with young kids, work, etc... we can't just always wait for our hearts or minds to be completely into it, just not realistic if we want to have any form of a sex life. I plan days off from work when the kids are all at school, a few weekend getaways, etc... where we can really gear up for it. However, outside of that we have to try to fit things in where possible (no pun intended lol). Maybe you aren't quite in the mood, but you know your SO would enjoy it (maybe they had a rough day, etc...) so you initiate, nothing wrong with that. Likewise, there are times where I can tell my W is a bit distracted, so I start things and can pretty quickly get her mind off of whatever was bothering her. In both these cases, if we waited solely for our "hearts/mind" to be in to it, nothing happens...

The concern would be where someone uses this as an excuse to not have sex or control sex (i.e. not today, maybe tomorrow when my "heart" is in to it). 

Of course, everyone's situation would vary


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Lol, bad Santa...that was funny.

But yes...every time. And for me with the right partner, it *is* mind blowing every time. My ex husband and I had mind blowing sex every time for 12 years. And the ex boyfriend and I did as well (and I had every indication to believe it always would have been that way). 

I remember one time a bunch of guys on a men's forum assured me that the sex with my ex husband would eventually get routine and not mind blowing...and that I wouldn't feel as attracted to him eventually. This was when we had been together for 4 years. 

I always wanted to go back there and tell them "nope, after 12 years....still mind blowing and still incredibly attracted to him" but I didn't bother.

Again I know this is not a goal most people have. I know some men will be like "um yeah, that's not realistic to expect, see ya"...and that's fine. 

And others may puff up what they are capable of or what they want, either out of lack of awareness or because they honestly think we are speaking the same language (mind blowing may not mean the same thing to everyone). 

But I've gotten pretty good at finding the men who are a good sexual match for me. I look forward to finding a boyfriend again soon and having my mind blown every time.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

EllisRedding said:


> That is fair if that is your expectation (as you mentioned, that is why you are up front about it). In my case with young kids, work, etc... we can't just always wait for our hearts or minds to be completely into it, just not realistic if we want to have any form of a sex life. I plan days off from work when the kids are all at school, a few weekend getaways, etc... where we can really gear up for it. However, outside of that we have to try to fit things in where possible (no pun intended lol). Maybe you aren't quite in the mood, but you know your SO would enjoy it (maybe they had a rough day, etc...) so you initiate, nothing wrong with that. Likewise, there are times where I can tell my W is a bit distracted, so I start things and can pretty quickly get her mind off of whatever was bothering her. In both these cases, if we waited solely for our "hearts/mind" to be in to it, nothing happens...
> 
> The concern would be where someone uses this as an excuse to not have sex or control sex (i.e. not today, maybe tomorrow when my "heart" is in to it).
> 
> Of course, everyone's situation would vary


Yes totally makes sense. And dating is different than married with children, for sure.

In my marriage, we were DINKS (though I have kids but they had flown the nest), and that is also different than a marriage with kids.

And also...I'm just extremely sexual and can start feeling sexually buzzed by a simple grope or kiss...so that's built in to all of my sexual relationships. Again I realize not everyone is like this, including most men. But that's why it is always easy for me to put my heart into it....my heart is never far from being all the way into it. 

Sigh...I miss the boyfriend now.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> That is fair if that is your expectation (as you mentioned, that is why you are up front about it). In my case with young kids, work, etc... we can't just always wait for our hearts or minds to be completely into it, just not realistic if we want to have any form of a sex life. I plan days off from work when the kids are all at school, a few weekend getaways, etc... where we can really gear up for it. However, outside of that we have to try to fit things in where possible (no pun intended lol). Maybe you aren't quite in the mood, but you know your SO would enjoy it (maybe they had a rough day, etc...) so you initiate, nothing wrong with that. Likewise, there are times where I can tell my W is a bit distracted, so I start things and can pretty quickly get her mind off of whatever was bothering her. In both these cases, if we waited solely for our "hearts/mind" to be in to it, nothing happens...
> 
> The concern would be where someone uses this as an excuse to not have sex or control sex (i.e. not today, maybe tomorrow when my "heart" is in to it).
> 
> Of course, everyone's situation would vary


I so agree with @EllisRedding here on this one. While a healthy libido is great, it is also something that never tends to obey the regulations of what you might define as rules of a democratic society. I'm not really sure you can spell out exactly what you want and be able to even find it in a long term scenario that is also subject to the pitfalls of daily life. 

My definition of mind blowing sex would also have to include the confidence to try new things and fail at it relatively often. If you are not failing, then your not learning anything new. If you are not learning anything new then mind blowing sex is then unobtainable. 

If you are just doing the same thing over and over and you think it is mind blowing, well then.... I'm speechless.

The last time I had mind blowing sex with my wife, it started with her asking, "WHAT ARE YOU EVEN TRYING TO DO?????" ...and then followed with "THAT WAS INCREDIBLE!!!!" Now the idea of being married over twenty years and managing to do that EVERY TIME, I'd say it is simply NOT possible. For everything new I try, only about 30% of them are mind blowing. 

Unless you are just easy to please or something, BUT I'll admit, I like a challenge!

Badsanta


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> I remember one time a bunch of guys on a men's forum assured me that the sex with my ex husband would eventually get routine and not mind blowing...and that I wouldn't feel as attracted to him eventually. This was when we had been together for 4 years.
> 
> I always wanted to go back there and tell them "nope, after 12 years....still mind blowing and still incredibly attracted to him" but I didn't bother.


Now I also agree with that. My wife and I have been together over twenty years, and I would describe sex with her today exponentially better than anything I experienced as a teenager when I was having sex up to three times a day and I today I am way more attracted to her as well. 

At this stage of the game I would describe physical attraction as being way more about attitude than that of physical appearance.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

badsanta said:


> If you are just doing the same thing over and over and you think it is mind blowing, well then.... I'm speechless.
> 
> ....
> 
> ...


Nope, not the same thing over and over.

As far as being easy to please...the right partner pleases me very easily, yes. But the right partner for me has magic hands and is hot as hell...but hey, I give as good as I get so everyone wins.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

badsanta said:


> A male experiences a very strong cycle of hormones during partnered sex. The effect of these hormones during the refractory period can be compared to taking a valium.


Interesting. Thanks for explaining/describing that.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

badsanta said:


> A male experiences a very strong cycle of hormones during partnered sex. The effect of these hormones during the refractory period can be compared to taking a valium.





jld said:


> Interesting. Thanks for explaining/describing that.


I remember my wife and I once went at it for a rather intense session and then immediately afterwards I was almost late for a meeting and had to leave and begin driving somewhere. While driving I was almost concerned that I had no business being behind the wheel. Notice I said "almost" concerned there! Cause when a guy is in this state, NOTHING will concern him. Sharp curve in the road, nah I don't need to slow down! Hair parted the completely opposite way than usual, nah that is nothing to worry about. Forgot to put on my shoes, meh my feet will still work when I walk. Left the vibrator laying out on the kitchen counter while I was putting away the coconut oil, psst who cares if the in laws see that if they come over while I'm away, they will just think it is a fancy milkshake mixer. In other words, decision making skills are probably not very sharp!

I don't exactly know how to describe it myself. But imagine you drink three or four big glasses of wine one right after another. Your body feels like this and like you might not even be able to walk and sleepy, but somehow as if magic you can easily get up and move around perfectly fine.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

badsanta said:


> I don't exactly know how to describe it myself. But imagine you drink three or four big glasses of wine one right after another. Your body feels like this and like you might not even be able to walk and sleepy, but somehow as if magic you can easily get up and move around perfectly fine.


I just call it being high on sex. You are full of wonderful happy chemicals after great sex. I love that feeling and it is part of why I love sex itself so much. I'm high for hours afterwards.


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## bilbag (Aug 3, 2016)

Daisy12 said:


> My own Husband and I went through a phase of very little sex when our kids were small, but he told me that he was so completely happy with me in every other aspect of our relationship that he would not even consider leaving me. He told me that he was prepared to take care of himself for the rest of his life if that is what it meant he had to do to stay married to me.


Your husband sounds sweet. I'm sure he meant every word he said, at that time.


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

Vega said:


> For me (and I suspect, a lot of other men and women), I have the physical _ability_ to have sex every day, especially "starfish" sex. But would my 'heart' be into it? Well, not always. In fact, I don't believe that some people who DO have sex as often as they do, are ALWAYS 'into it' when they do.


This is what I can not get my husband to understand. I have sex with him at times when I am not "in the mood" He doesn't like this as he sees it as duty sex and doesn't want me doing anything I don't want to do. I have told him lots of times that I never do anything I don't want to. I mean I'm sure my husband was just ecstatic to spend months of weekends to renovate our bathroom and paint our whole house, considering I know how much he hates painting. He did that because he knows it pleases me to have a nice house and he did it with no complaints. I have sex with my husband whenever he wants for the same reason as I know it pleases him. It's not like I'm just laying naked in bed saying, get it over with. If I have sex with my husband I get into it and make sure it is pleasurable for him. This is why unless I tell him i was not really in the mood, he never knows the difference. I usually just won't have an oragasm, but I most of the times I lie to him and tell him I do. From a man's perspective should I not be doing this? I mean this may only happen once a month as most of the times I am looking forward to and wanting to have sex.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I think its fine to let your partner know that while you are not in the mood, you do enjoy pleasing them (if its true). Its OK to not have an "O" in that situation - as long as when you are in the mood, your partner will do everything that they can to please you.

I give my wife long massages and am happy to do so, even if I get no physical pleasure from it.

I'd never recommend lying about orgasms. The problem is that it will become difficult for him to know what you really enjoy, and he won't get the feedback he needs to be a better lover. 

I'd much rather have my wife tell me that she didn't O, on occasion, than not be sure when she did. I pride myself on being a good lover. That doesn't mean that my partner will always always have an "O", that isn't realistic, but that most of the time they will and will in general greatly enjoy sex. 




Daisy12 said:


> This is what I can not get my husband to understand. I have sex with him at times when I am not "in the mood" He doesn't like this as he sees it as duty sex and doesn't want me doing anything I don't want to do. I have told him lots of times that I never do anything I don't want to. I mean I'm sure my husband was just ecstatic to spend months of weekends to renovate our bathroom and paint our whole house, considering I know how much he hates painting. He did that because he knows it pleases me to have a nice house and he did it with no complaints. I have sex with my husband whenever he wants for the same reason as I know it pleases him. It's not like I'm just laying naked in bed saying, get it over with. If I have sex with my husband I get into it and make sure it is pleasurable for him. This is why unless I tell him i was not really in the mood, he never knows the difference. I usually just won't have an oragasm, but I most of the times I lie to him and tell him I do. From a man's perspective should I not be doing this? I mean this may only happen once a month as most of the times I am looking forward to and wanting to have sex.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Daisy12 said:


> This is what I can not get my husband to understand. I have sex with him at times when I am not "in the mood" He doesn't like this as he sees it as duty sex and doesn't want me doing anything I don't want to do. I have told him lots of times that I never do anything I don't want to. I mean I'm sure my husband was just ecstatic to spend months of weekends to renovate our bathroom and paint our whole house, considering I know how much he hates painting. He did that because he knows it pleases me to have a nice house and he did it with no complaints. I have sex with my husband whenever he wants for the same reason as I know it pleases him. It's not like I'm just laying naked in bed saying, get it over with. *If I have sex with my husband I get into it and make sure it is pleasurable for him*. This is why unless I tell him i was not really in the mood, he never knows the difference. I usually just won't have an oragasm, but I most of the times I lie to him and tell him I do. *From a man's perspective should I not be doing this?* I mean this may only happen once a month as most of the times I am looking forward to and wanting to have sex.


You shouldn't lie to him. Yet, you say he doesn't understand. 

If you get in to it like you say then he shouldn't be feeling a lack of orgasm on your part is a failure or duty sex, that's not fair. But he should be generally putting effort towards that right? The tricky part is working out between you how to resolve the encounter without faking...


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Daisy12 said:


> This is what I can not get my husband to understand. I have sex with him at times when I am not "in the mood" He doesn't like this as he sees it as duty sex and doesn't want me doing anything I don't want to do. I have told him lots of times that I never do anything I don't want to. I mean I'm sure my husband was just ecstatic to spend months of weekends to renovate our bathroom and paint our whole house, considering I know how much he hates painting. He did that because he knows it pleases me to have a nice house and he did it with no complaints. I have sex with my husband whenever he wants for the same reason as I know it pleases him. It's not like I'm just laying naked in bed saying, get it over with. If I have sex with my husband I get into it and make sure it is pleasurable for him. This is why unless I tell him i was not really in the mood, he never knows the difference. I usually just won't have an oragasm, but I most of the times I lie to him and tell him I do. From a man's perspective should I not be doing this? I mean this may only happen once a month as most of the times I am looking forward to and wanting to have sex.


OMG, THIS that you posted is actually a very serious issue that you need to resolve with your husband. Let him read this post that I am typing right now if you want. I used to have this exact same problem with my wife, in that she would make herself available for sex, even if she was not in the mood. She would however not lie about the fact that she was not going to have an orgasm and mention to me to just enjoy myself. I would find this difficult and would often turn it down and actually fuss at her for not even trying. Well that turned out to be a horrible thing to do and I'll explain why, so perhaps your husband will stop being an idiot. 

At the heart of sexuality is "validation" that we all seek for various reasons. 

Your husband likely wants his validation in the form of knowing and feeling that he can please you sexually. Until he knows this is likely to happen, he likely finds duty sex to be rather traumatic in that he can't feel any validation while having sex with you. 

He does not understand that you likely seek a similar form of validation in knowing that as his wife that he is still attracted to you and that you can please him. When this happens (with or without an orgasm) it can be rather beneficial to your wellbeing, build your self confidence AND make it much more likely that you will begin responding sexually to his pleasure when you blow his mind with your newfound levels of confidence in the bedroom. In the meantime when he rejects you making yourself available, it is likely just as traumatic to you in that you begin to feel like you can't please your husband and you may even question if he is even attracted to you anymore. HE DOES NOT UNDERSTAND THIS! 

So discuss this with him! Explain that while you may or may not have an orgasm that your sexuality is much different than his. If he comes to you and has to have it, you would likely enjoy nothing more than feeling the confidence to give him a mind blowing experience. Explain that if he helps you build that confidence that it is also very likely to become a mind blowing experience to you as well, and that orgasms will come naturally and you will not have to pretend!

Another thing you can do for him that may help is to have a conversation about self exploration and see if you are able to participate in that for him. Perhaps you want to write him a rather explicit love letter and give it to him with a jar of coconut oil. Ask him to think about what it would feel like for the two of you to use ample amounts of it the next time you are together, but ask him to experiment with those sensations some on his own first. 

Something like that can be huge, because he needs to feel that you both accept and nurture his libido for you in the marriage. In this way his time alone will actually help bring you closer versus him being frustrated with you and resorting to self exploration out of anger.

Hope that helps!

Badsanta


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## Begin again (Jul 4, 2016)

Married&Confused said:


> haven't read the thread you mentioned but you have to look at it from a guy's perspective.
> 
> guys need sex for love, women need love for sex. (generalization I know but probably more true than not). so even if there is no "love", unless the guy absolutely can't stand the woman, he'll be willing to have sex with her. And sometimes that uncommitted sex is the best.
> 
> but I think that guys who think they can take care of themselves in a sexless marriage are fooling themselves. it may work for a while but eventually, if you have a wife who is mentally and physically capable of having sex, the anger and frustration will build and resentment sets in. will it kill the marriage? maybe not. but if you're not meeting his needs chances are he won't meet yours either.


It took me years to really get this, but I do now. And the flip is also true for most women. Most women who think they can remain happily married in a relationship where there is no love are fooling themselves.

My solution? Have both!! Seriously! Have love and sex. Have sex and love. Skimp on one and the other suffers. And so will the relationship. Simple.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

I will have to sit down and talk to my husband about this and stop the lying. There is sometimes when he wants to have sex, and I am more than willing to have sex and probably will enjoy it but I know I'm probably not going to orgasm, no matter what he does. He is not a selfish lover, and will do what ever he can to help me orgasm but sometimes having a orgasm is not my end goal for having sex with my husband. It's pleasing him, and the physical and emotional connection you get from sex. I normal would say I orgasm 95 percent of the time, so it's not like this happens a lot.

I think because of our recent issues with me being LD and now my Libido increasing to match his, and our more open communication about sexual needs and drives, he may still feel like I'm only having sex with him because I know how much he wants to have sex. I guess he can't understand how it can still be good without an orgasm, It just sometimes doesn't happen for woman, or at least me at certain times. I guess I am lying to avoid having him feel like I'm only having sex with him cause he wants me to.


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## Begin again (Jul 4, 2016)

badsanta said:


> OMG, THIS that you posted is actually a very serious issue that you need to resolve with your husband. Let him read this post that I am typing right now if you want. I used to have this exact same problem with my wife, in that she would make herself available for sex, even if she was not in the mood. She would however not lie about the fact that she was not going to have an orgasm and mention to me to just enjoy myself. I would find this difficult and would often turn it down and actually fuss at her for not even trying. Well that turned out to be a horrible thing to do and I'll explain why, so perhaps your husband will stop being an idiot.
> 
> At the heart of sexuality is "validation" that we all seek for various reasons.
> 
> ...


This is very much what happened in my marriage and neither one of us had the clarity to see it. For us, it is too late, but the above is so valuable to me personally that I am going to take it and send it to myself for future reference.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Before you stop lying, I would address the issue that BadSanta raises. Discuss with your H why he views sex as a failure if you do not have an orgasm. Try to frame it as being very arrogant of him to tell you that you did not enjoy the session if you feel you did. Make it an issue of personal autonomy. He shouldn't try to tell you when you can and can't have sex simply because his ego demands that you have an orgasm every time you have sex. Help him feel comfortable accepting this as a loving gift from you rather than seeing it as a personal failure by him.

I think if you start the process by saying "no, sorry, did not come today" he will feel bad and defensive and you will find it even more difficult to get your point across. I would have the conversation ASAP so you do not face the unpleasant choice of either continuing to lie (bad) or reducing the chances of a successful outcome to the conversation by hurting his feelings (also bad).

Good luck. Be brave. Your sex life and your marriage will be better if you can get to the "other side" of this issue and get him comfortable allowing you the joy of rocking his world sexually even on occasions when you are unlikely to reach orgasm yourself.


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## bilbag (Aug 3, 2016)

He has to earn and be worthy of an orgasm. What is his problem with a 95% success rate anyway? I can tell if my wife is enjoying it, and I am more concerned with her Ouch's than O's.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

bilbag said:


> *He has to earn and be worthy of an orgasm.* What is his problem with a 95% success rate anyway? I can tell if my wife is enjoying it, and I am more concerned with her Ouch's than O's.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 @bilbag your use of words here suggests that you think sexuality is based on bartering. An example might include your wife saying, "well if you can help me move some furniture for my mom this afternoon, I'll give you enthusiastic sex when we get back home!" If that is the case in your marriage, I strongly suggest you place your wife on POD payment terms so that you get yours up front! 

So in other words when your wife says, "well if you can help me move some furniture for my mom this afternoon, I'll give you enthusiastic sex when we get back home!" ...you reply that she will be required to prepay! Then you simply fall asleep and complain to her that she should know you get really tired after sex!

Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Daisy12 said:


> I will have to sit down and talk to my husband about this and stop the lying. There is sometimes when he wants to have sex, and I am more than willing to have sex and probably will enjoy it but I know I'm probably not going to orgasm, no matter what he does. He is not a selfish lover, and will do what ever he can to help me orgasm but sometimes having a orgasm is not my end goal for having sex with my husband. It's pleasing him, and the physical and emotional connection you get from sex. I normal would say I orgasm 95 percent of the time, so it's not like this happens a lot.
> 
> I think because of our recent issues with me being LD and now my Libido increasing to match his, and our more open communication about sexual needs and drives, he may still feel like I'm only having sex with him because I know how much he wants to have sex. I guess he can't understand how it can still be good without an orgasm, It just sometimes doesn't happen for woman, or at least me at certain times. I guess I am lying to avoid having him feel like I'm only having sex with him cause he wants me to.


Knowledge is powerful. I was the HD in an HD/LD marriage that deteriorated into a sex starved marriage.

I use to be a Nice Guy when I was in a sex starved marriage. I looked at pleasing my wife above all else as that was my covert contract. If I did things to please her, she would do things to please me.....or so I thought. Nice Guy's are into covert contracts. If I make my wife orgasm she will make sure I am sexually pleased is such a covert contract. 

It took me a long time to come to the understanding that my wife was truly LD. She just didn't want sex as often. When she did want sex, she could have toe curling orgasms. 

After I learned to be more of an integrated man (as opposed to being a Nice Guy that Glover describes in his book No More Mr. Nice Guy); i understood that sometimes she just liked the feeling of my body next to her and inside her and knowing that she could use her body to pleasure me. At that point I no longer needed to create covert contracts in my mind and my ego could live with the fact that I was HD and she was LD and at times she wasn't going to orgasm, but still loved to please me. Our sex therapist referred to it as her giving me the gift of her body out of love and that I should not refuse her gift.

Again, this is a really hard concept for some guys to accept and understand. Nice Guys (Glover's definition) are trained from a very young age to please women and that pleasing women is the way to happiness. What made the most sense to me was when the sex therapist asked if my wife was horny and wanted me to finger her to orgasm would I do it to please her? I said of course. She then asked if I would resent my wife in such a situation for my not climaxing or getting PIV sex. I said of course not. 

The Sex Therapist then asked me why then was it so important that both people orgasm on the same night. Couldn't there be love where a couple takes turns as to who gets to orgasm. Of course that could work well for some couples. If that could then if one of the couples was more HD couldn't they have more "turns" orgasming without harming the marriage? The key is to recognize that each of us has our own appetites, needs and limits.

Again, you have a great understanding of the issues. Good luck with your conversation with your spouse and congratulations on becoming more HD!


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Young at Heart said:


> Knowledge is powerful. I was the HD in an HD/LD marriage that deteriorated into a sex starved marriage.
> 
> I use to be a Nice Guy when I was in a sex starved marriage. I looked at pleasing my wife above all else as that was my covert contract. If I did things to please her, she would do things to please me.....or so I thought. Nice Guy's are into covert contracts. If I make my wife orgasm she will make sure I am sexually pleased is such a covert contract.
> 
> ...


Generally speaking, it seems that the LD can be perfectly content having sex WITHOUT the orgasm. But it seems the HD can't understand why anyone would have sex WITHOUT wanting/craving/striving for and achieving the orgasm. it seems to them, that without (their own)orgasm, sex is pointless. 

My late husband thought that. I've wondered how many other people think the same way.


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## bilbag (Aug 3, 2016)

badsanta said:


> @bilbag your use of words here suggests that you think sexuality is based on bartering. An example might include your wife saying, "well if you can help me move some furniture for my mom this afternoon, I'll give you enthusiastic sex when we get back home!" If that is the case in your marriage, I strongly suggest you place your wife on POD payment terms so that you get yours up front!
> 
> So in other words when your wife says, "well if you can help me move some furniture for my mom this afternoon, I'll give you enthusiastic sex when we get back home!" ...you reply that she will be required to prepay! Then you simply fall asleep and complain to her that she should know you get really tired after sex!
> 
> ...


I wasn't thinking of earning in terms of bartering. More like preparing and practicing hard so that on Sundays you play well and score touchdowns. I was just trying to say that you can't pound on the table and scream, More!, and expect an orgasm to come out. It takes some effort on our part.
Actually things have been good on my end. She's been generous and we've had sex 3 out of 4 nights and I am really tired. She even gave oral. Not really sure what I bartered but well worth it.


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## Bilbo115265 (Apr 24, 2018)

I masterbate a lot my wife knows it


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

OP. My husband doesn't post here but he too has weathered the ups and downs of my libido over the years. He's never said a word, he's always been engaged and loving. I've never 'turned' him down frequently but he didn't truly initiate.

Once I moved back into a higher interest portion I simply asked him if things were ideal how often would he want sex. He blew my mind when he answered ideally, daily. He never initiated daily.

The point? He went 22 years and like your husband when I discussed it with him, he simply loves me more than sex. Now we have sex almost daily sometimes during the week we miss some days but on the weekends we frequently double up.

Communication for us has always been great except apparently about sex. No we communicate more about sex and we have become much more adventurous. 

We are going on 25 years. I love good sex. I'm sure he loves good sex. I don't think either of us thinks sex is more important than our marriage.


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