# Welcome TAM CWI newbies- please read this



## Almostrecovered

Welcome newbies. I am so sorry that you are here with us now. If you're here, then it's a good chance that your marriage is in big trouble.

If you are a betrayed spouse or think you might be a betrayed spouse let me first say that I know how much it sucks to be where you are right now. Please know first and foremost that the reason that you are here is not your fault. You can't control your spouse as with many things in life but what you can do is control yourself and how you handle yourself when bad things happen.

If you are a disloyal spouse then please know that while you will not get the sympathy that you so crave, what you will get here is good and solid advice to making yourself a better person. I hope you have thick enough skin to stick around and take the comments directed at you and do what's not only right for your spouse and family but for you as well. I commend you for taking what must be a difficult first step by coming here.

Now as to why I am posting this thread-

Recently another forum regular commented to me in a PM how there have been a lot of "returnees" as of late. They came here either initially in other subforums on TAM or directly to this forum and asked for advice regarding either suspicious behavior or because their spouse was likely cheating on them (and some who had cheated themselves). 
Some of these posters stayed just a short time worried about suspicions and then returned stating how their spouse was indeed cheating and they didn't believe it at first and wished they listened. Some knew their spouse was cheating but were too scared to take the correct action out of fear of losing their spouse. Some just took a few bits of advice and didn't stay long enough to really understand what to do and how to utilize that advice correctly.


So this thread is not dedicated to giving you advice about your particular situation but rather how to handle the advice you are about to be given on the forum.


The advice you will likely hear will be scary. It will sound counter-intuitive to what you want at times. You will hear words that you never thought you would in context to your marriage like "divorce" or "cheating". The advice given will often be hard to implement and you will also make mistakes doing as such.

The truth is your marriage is already in very big trouble. Drastic times will often call for drastic measures. Also know that often your marriage is often set on a course that you cannot change. 
My goal is shared by many of the regular posters here. I am not the one to judge whether or not you should reconcile (R) or divorce (D). I am more interested in getting you to where you are headed faster. 

Limbo is hell. It sucks your soul dry. I believe it to be ten times more stressful than getting to an actual resolution, even if that resolution is not what you want. 

I am not saying that everyone's advice is perfect. I am not implying we have all the answers. But I can say with confidence, that many of us have experience in similar situations as yours and many of us also have experience generated by becoming regulars to this forum. We have seen quite a lot. We know by experience that there are patterns and scripts in infidelity. We can help you if you take the time carefully consider what we are saying to you and then take that appropriate action. 

So I implore you-

don't look to sweep your problem under the rug
don't bury your head in the sand because your problem is not going to go away
listen to what we have to say and take your time implementing it- often we simply react in stressful situations instead of considering options that may be better- and perhaps we can help you find those answers.

Welcome to TAM's coping with infidelity forum- I'm not happy you're here but I will help you as best as I can.



AlmostRecovered


other posters may feel free to link this thread 

*
***Disclaimer****

I am not an owner or operator of TAM
I am not a moderator
This is just my opinion

EDIT: adding some things that should be stickies by Lord Mayhem and Eli Zor to put on the first page:



lordmayhem said:


> *List of Acronyms of Infidelity so the newbies can follow the infidelity lingo here.*
> 
> WW = Wayward Wife
> WH = Wayward Husband
> WS = Wayward Spouse
> BH = Betrayed Husband
> BW = Betrayed Wife
> BS = Betrayed Spouse
> LS = Loyal Spouse
> DW = Disloyal Wife
> DH = Disloyal Husband
> DS = Disloyal Spouse
> fWW = Former Wayward Wife
> fWH = Former Wayward Husband
> fWS = Former Wayward Spouse
> OM = Other Man
> OW = Other Woman
> OMW = Other Man’s Wife
> OWH = Other Woman’s Husband
> AP = Affair Partner
> R = Reconciliation
> D = Divorce
> DDay = Discovery Day
> STBXH = Soon To Be Ex Husband
> STBXW = Soon To Be Ex Wife
> ILYBINILWY = I Love You But I’m Not In Love With You
> EA = Emotional Affair
> PA = Physical Affair
> A = Affair
> KISA = Knight In Shining Armor
> VAR = Voice Activated Recorder
> TT = Trickle Truth
> SAHM = Stay At Home Mom
> SAHD = Stay At Home Dad





lordmayhem said:


> *Common Terms/Phrases About Infidelity*​
> *Bunny Boiler* - taken from the Glenn Close character in 'Fatal Attraction', boiling her Ex'es pet rabbit. After a relationship break up, the person who wants some kind of revenge, like stalking, or harassment
> 
> *Cake Eater* – taken from the common phrase: Having their cake and eating it too. When the WS wants to have the security of marriage while at the same time, enjoy the affair. When the spouses are separated, the WS is described as cake eating when they try to keep in contact with the WS and give them the idea that the marriage can be salvaged, yet they are still carrying on the affair, in essence, keeping the BS on the line as their back up plan. Another term is “on the fence”.
> 
> *DDay* – Otherwise known as Discovery Day. This is the initial period when the BS actually learns of the affair, either through investigation, being informed of the A, or if the WS confesses to the A. The initial pain that occurs on DDay can be indescribable.
> 
> *Emotional Roller Coaster* – a normal result of being betrayed after D-Day. The BS will experience wide swings of emotion after being betrayed. These feelings can change from moment to moment or day to day, or as the result of having a trigger. One moment, the BS will feel extreme anger towards their WS, then the emotion swings the other way and they will feel love toward their WS and feel they cannot live without them.
> 
> *False R* – False Reconciliation is when the WS has kept in contact with the Other Person (OP) and taken the affair underground and the BS discovers the communication, or when the WS breaks No Contact (NC) and it is discovered. This False R is another DDay.
> 
> *Fishing* – due to the extremely strong addiction that an affair brings, one of the affair partners will break NC and attempt to send out a feeler or “fish” for renewed contact. This can be as simple as a “How are you?”, “Are you okay?”, “Miss You”, etc, which can be sent thru email, text, or a brief phone call.
> 
> *Fog* - The term “affair fog” is often used by experts and affair victims to describe the euphoria that someone involved in an affair feels. Think of how good you felt when you first fell in love. During this period, the cheater will often rationalize their actions in order to minimize their feelings of guilt — often to the extent that they “invent” reasons for having the affair in the first place. Healing from infidelity is impossible while one is in this fog.
> 
> The wayward spouse may convince themselves that they are in a bad marriage or that their spouse doesn’t really love or understand them, when that really isn’t necessarily the case. Soon the cheating spouse begins to actually believe these lies that they have been telling themselves and therefore act accordingly by treating their spouse badly yet treating their affair partner in a loving and affectionate way. This is how the affair addiction begins to take momentum.
> 
> An affair fog is nothing more than a fantasy created by the affair partners. All the wonderful qualities each partner possess are without flaws, weaknesses or selfishness. The affair partners are under the influence of an addictive drug similar to a teenager in love, and unfortunately it is very difficult to remove them from this fog.
> 
> The Affair Fog
> 
> *Hypervigilance* – after the emotional devastation of D-Day, the BS often becomes hypervigilant because of the extreme emotional trauma as the result of all trust being broken by the WS. The BS will be watching the WS intensely, looking for any and all threats.
> 
> *Hysterical Bonding* – from the SI website: Upon being confronted with the undeniable reality that their most trusted spouse has betrayed them with another, some BS's experience an overwhelming sexual desire for their wayward spouse. Many couples claim to have had the best, most intense and loving sex of their relationship during the period following the discovery of an affair, (generally a few weeks to several months), often trying new things and experimenting in ways they had never considered before. This phenomenon is termed "Hysterical Bonding.
> 
> There is very little information on this phenomenon, but it appears to be a primal, instinctual way for the partners to reconnect and reclaim each other. While it may feel counter-intuitive to the BS; as if they are "rewarding" the WS for the affair, hysterical bonding can be a stepping stone to reconciliation. The intimacy encourages communication and a closeness that may otherwise take some time to re-build.
> 
> The occurrence or absence of hysterical bonding does not appear to be an indicator of successful reconciliation. Many other factors, such as the WS's remorse and openness are far more reliable indicators. Hysterical bonding is, however, normal, and nothing for the BS to be alarmed about or ashamed about experiencing. In fact, it has been said it is the one positive in an otherwise long and miserable experience, so enjoy it while it lasts!
> 
> *Limbo* – This is the stage every BS is in on and after DDay. The A can still be ongoing, or it may have already stopped. It’s called limbo because the BS has not moved toward D, and he/she not moved toward R. Only decisive action towards R or D will get the BS out of limbo. Many BSs are in False R because they tried to R too quickly before conditions and requirements for True R are met, and are therefore still in limbo. Being in limbo can be the most agonizing part of discovering an A.
> 
> *Mind Movies* – This is when a BS has flashbacks or imagines what the BS was doing with their AP, such as imagining them texting or talking on the phone, chatting on the computer, and/or imagining their WS having sex with their AP. Some mind movies are actually worse than what happened in reality, while others are tame in comparison to what their WS did with their AP (think porno style sex). Many BSs constantly have mind movies during the intial period right after DDay, or even before DDay when they suspect their WS is having an A. Mind movies can occur at any stage of the healing process, although it seems to occur less and less frequently as time goes by and the R process is going fairly well.
> 
> *Rug Sweeping* – the act of forgiving a wayward spouse for the affair too quickly and trying to reconcile with the WS and move on and put the affair behind them. This is the most common mistake that newly betrayed spouses make. No issues are resolved, and usually results in another D-Day. BS’s and WS’s rug sweep for different reasons. BS’s rug sweep because they are in shock and denial, want to avoid any further emotional pain and desperately want to save their marriages. WSs rug sweep because they don’t want to be held accountable for the affair and suffer any further guilt (if they have any guilt at all), or they want to take the affair further underground.
> 
> *Going Underground *– Upon being discovered on D-Day, because of the addictive nature of the affair and the WS still being in the fog, the WS will often continue the affair using more secretive means
> 
> *Trickle Truth (TT)* - the act of minimizing actions during an affair. The WS will often only admit after many denials, that information that he/she thinks their BS knows about. The truth only slowly trickles out after each new discovery that the BS makes. Each time TT happens, it is considered another D-Day, sending the BS into yet another agonizing incident of pain. For example: A WS will often say their AP is just a friend, then the BS will discover more. Only when confronted with more evidence or further questioning, the WS may only admit to hugging and/or kissing, then when confronted with more evidence or questioning, admit to having oral sex, or a single sexual encounter, when in reality, it was more than a single sexual encounter. WSs will often say the sex was bad.
> 
> *Triggers* - These are events or circumstances that will “trigger” a BSs memory of the A, or even trigger a mind movie. These can range from a holiday, a picture, the way a BS acts, etc. Basically anything that triggers a memory of the A or mind movies. Triggers can be devastating, and reminds the BS of the pain they experienced from the A. A remorseful WS should be helping the BS when he/she triggers. Triggers seem to come less and less often as time goes by. Some will always have some kind of trigger that reminds them of the A. It is completely normal to have triggers.
> 
> *True R* – True Reconciliation is when the WS has kept NC with their AP and it has been verified. This is when the WS is truly remorseful in their actions. They are willingly transparent, and their behavior has changed and they have recommitted to their BS, the marriage, and/or any children. A truly remorseful WS will not rug sweep and is willing to discuss the A without getting defensive. They are willing to be transparent without getting defensive. They are willing to do anything to help the BS regain their trust in them. Both spouses are working on themselves and the marriage.
> 
> *Gaslighting* - Named after a play and 1944 film with Ingrid Bergman. Gaslighting is when the WS will make their BS doubt their own memory and make them feel crazy for believing what would be obvious to most. The BS will want to believe their spouse so much that the WS will be able lie and twist things around so much that the BS will question themselves and feel guilty for making accusations or spying, even when the proof is next to undeniable. This is why most will recommend that the BS obtain irrefutable proof of the affair.
> 
> *Blameshifting* - The WS will justify their decision to engage in the affair by blaming the faults and perceived problems caused by the BS in the marriage. It is important to note that these problems of the marriage will often be exaggerated, made up or the BS will be vilified. Blameshifting is usually the first reaction of a WS when caught and confronted with the proof of their affair. (ie. "If you paid more attention to me I wouldn't have had the affair") Most here believe that marital problems are shared 50/50 but the affair is 100% the fault of the WS as the WS had more honorable actions to choose from regarding marital strife.


*remorse vs guilt:*




lordmayhem said:


> All credit for this goes to a poster named Fighting2Survive at the SurvivingInfidelity forum. It's a great guide to see if your WS is truly remorseful or just trying to sweep it under the rug.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *INDICATORS OF REMORSE*
> * Actions match words.
> * Accepts full responsibility for the affair without blaming the BS, a bad marriage, or other outside factors.
> * Expresses sorrow for hurting the BS and the M.
> * Shows compassion and actively assists the BS with handling triggers.
> * Does not become defensive or shut down when BS brings up affair-related emotions, issues, or questions.
> * Answers questions honestly and completely.
> * Does not avoid the BS or become frustrated that the BS is not “healing fast enough.”
> * Contributes at least 60% of the joint effort at rebuilding the marriage.
> * Actively works to understand why he or she made the choice to have an affair and shares insights with BS.
> * Does not think solely about himself or herself. Considers how actions impact the BS.
> 
> 
> Remorse is so important to R. It's the conerstone that everything else is built on. Without it, the M can not heal.
> 
> Remorse involves far more than just saying "I'm sorry." It's conveyed through consistent actions. The above list is not comprehensive, but it is meant to be an example that the FWS's behavior should be clear sign that he or she understands the pain the A caused and is committed to healing the M. Simply hanging around the house is not remorse. And it is not R.


*nice quote about who would've expected to be cheated on-*



lordmayhem said:


> Nobody. And not me, that's for sure. Here I thought after a long military career of shift work, many deployments, constant moving around and 21 years, that I thought we were home free and safe and could cruise into our mid life and golden years. Now that its happened to me, I've learned:
> 
> 
> It does not matter how long you've been married. It could be less than a year to a 40 year marriage. Your spouse can cheat at ANY point in the marriage. There is no safe period.
> It does not matter how many children you have or how old they are. Your spouse can cheat on you during pregnancy, or when the children are young, or in their teens, or grown up. It doesn't matter if you have disabled children or not either. It doesn't matter if you have no kids or 8 kids. They can and will cheat.
> It doesn't matter their level of education
> It doesn't matter at what age you marry.
> It doesn't matter if you were their first, or if they had many partners before you
> It doesn't matter if they have enabling, toxic friends or not. But it is more likely if the do.
> It doesn't matter if they come from a dysfunctional family or normal family
> It doesn't matter if they're skinny or fat
> It doesn't matter if you have a good marriage or a bad marriage
> It doesn't matter if you had good communication or poor communication with each other.
> It doesn't matter if you've been a good husband/wife
> 
> I've learned that ANY marriage is vulnerable if the other spouse compromises their boundaries or is looking to cheat. It's a MYTH that cheating only occurs in bad marriages or if someone's needs are not being fulfilled.


*No Contact Letter*



Eli-Zor said:


> *No Contact Letter - information below extracted from another forum*
> _
> Once the affair has come to light there must be proper closure to the affair. An agreement must be made between that all contact must end between the Wayward Spouse and the Affair Partner and it must be permanent. There are no if’s, and’s or but’s on this one. This MUST be done for there to be any healing in the marriage. The Wayward Spouse must commit to the No Contact Agreement. Every time the Agreement has been broken the Wayward Spouse must tell the Betrayed Spouse about it as soon as possible. Even if it wasn’t them that broke it, any contact whatsoever should be told immediately. This will build some trust back up in your marriage if this is done every time.
> 
> Writing a No Contact Letter to the Affair Partner is the best way to end the affair. This way everything that needs to be said can be with no interruptions and without adding or saying anything you don’t want said. Doing it over the phone or by email allows things to open back up for the OP to respond...and that's what you are clearly trying to avoid.
> 
> It should be written in the Wayward Spouse’s own handwriting. It really should be sent certified. Remember, this isn’t a “goodbye forever love letter” but it’s really stating that the affair is over, it was wrong, you were selfish, you love your spouse and family very much and you want to make your marriage work and that you’ll be fighting and working on saving your marriage. You should also state how much you have hurt your spouse and how you are going to spend the rest of your life making it up to them.
> 
> You also state how you no longer EVER want the affair partner to contact you in ANY way, shape or form. If the Wayward Spouse does this just for his/her spouse and continues contact with the Affair Partner, then the Affair Partner won’t take the No Contact Letter seriously. It also might not be taken seriously by the Affair Partner if the Wayward Spouse has tried numerous times to break it off with the Affair Partner only to come back time and time again. So, the Wayward Spouse must stand firm and continually tell the Affair Partner how much he loves his wife and wants to work on their marriage.
> 
> If you get continued contact the best defense is to IGNORE ALL CONTACT!! The Affair Partner thinks that if they can’t just get the Wayward Spouse to talk to them then the affair will continue on.
> 
> After the Wayward Spouse has finished the No Contact Letter, the Betrayed Spouse should read it, if it wasn’t written together. There should be nothing in the letter hinting about missing the Affair Partner, and that the letter doesn’t mean anything, etc. _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Here is an example of a No Contact Letter:*
> 
> _
> Dear [put name here],
> 
> The relationship I had with you was thoughtless and cruel. It hurt many people, particularly my spouse, who did not deserve to be treated that way. I am committed to my marriage and determined to make up for all the hurt I've caused my family. I am going to work hard to be the best husband/wife that he/she deserves.
> 
> 
> Because of the terrible offense to my spouse and the damage I have done to our marriage, I am permanently ending all contact with you. Please respect my wish to regain my integrity, and to heal my family. Please also respect my wish that you not attempt to contact me in any way at any time.
> 
> My spouse has all the details of our relationship and he/she will also be told of any attempts at contact.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> 
> [name here]_
> 
> 
> *Exposure advice:
> *
> _Exposure targets
> Parents of all concerned, family, close friends, children of the BS, workplace [if a workplace affair], spouse of the OP, pastor. Facebook friends of OP.
> 
> Exposure Timing
> Exposure should be done immediately. The longer you wait, the more entrenched the affair becomes. There is never any “perfect” time to expose, so don’t delay while looking for an imaginary perfect time.
> 
> Expose on the SAME DAY – or as close as possible – in order to achieve a tsunami effect. The affairees should be completely taken by surprise. Doing this creates a powerful hit on the affair and prevents the affairees from pre-empting you
> 
> Exposure Tactics
> 
> Spouse of affair partner- Give your full name, phone # and email address. Tell the other BS all about the affair, offer to share all evidence with him/her. Offer to follow up to ensure that contact is truly ended and ask the other BS to do the same. The other BS will be shocked when you tell him, so be sure and give your email address and phone # for follow up questions. ALWAYS GIVE THE OTHER BS YOUR WS'S PHONE # IN CASE HE/SHE WANTS TO CALL.
> 
> Parents, close family, friends – Tell them about the affair, giving them names, general timelines, etc. Explain you are attempting to save your marriage and would be willing to forgive your WS if he/she ended the affair. Ask them to use their influence to persuade the WS to end her affair. A way to save time is to call both sets of parents and send an email to the other close family and friends. Template letter posted below
> 
> Parents of OP. Give your full name and explain why you are calling. Ask them to use their influence with their son/daughter to persuade them to leave your spouse alone. It might also help if the PARENT of the WS calls them too.
> 
> Workplace exposure: Expose to Director of Human Resources, a key VP and both of the affairee’s supervisors using the template letter posted below.
> 
> Facebook exposure: Should be done to the OP’s facebook friends via private message. This is a very, very effective exposure because it is a collection of the OP’s closest friends and family. SPACE THE PM’S OUT 60 SECONDS APART SO FB DOES NOT SHUT YOU DOWN FOR FLOODING. Before you begin, copy and paste all the contacts into a WORD doc. Change your fb picture to a picture of you and your spouse and children. Template letters posted below.
> 
> The Fallout
> Expect your spouse to be FURIOUS and to make all manner of threats, “I was going to work on the marriage, now I am not!!” “I cannot trust you” “You have to pack and leave!!” “You have ruined any chance you had!!” Do not let this bother you!! Just imagine that you have taken the crackpipe away from the crack head. Of course they are angry. But it will blow over. Don’t laugh, don’t fight, don't attempt to reason with them, and most of all, don’t be SCARED! Your marriage can survive some temporary anger, it cannot survive an ongoing affair! The madder your WS, the harder you hit the target!
> 
> The goal is to save your marriage, NOT to avoid your wayward spouse's anger at all costs.
> 
> Just say, "I am so sorry you are upset.
> 
> Common Exposure Mistakes
> 
> Telling the WS that you got the idea to expose on the internet rather than taking ownership of your actions. Then the discussion becomes “who???” When the WS is told it was Marriage Builders, the WS is forever jaundiced against Marriage Builders, which harms future recovery chances. You need to OWN IT. Saying somebody told you to do it does not work for 5 year olds and it won’t work for you!
> 
> Keeping exposure a secret. Yes, you read right. But we have had exposure targets say “ok, I will keep this a secret!!” And they never tell the WS they know. That defeats the entire purpose. If that person won’t help you by speaking to your WS, at least TELL the WS that person knows.
> 
> 
> Doing trickle exposures. Meaning exposing to just a few people but not to everyone that could have an influence. Trickle exposures are a disaster because they are not enough to kill the affair but just enough to infuriate the WS enough to come after the BS. So the exposure essentially only served to beat down the already beaten BS for no benefit.
> 
> Eliminating exposure targets because that person “has no influence over my WS” even though this is a person with long history over the WS. Such as a mother or father. Such targets cannot be dismissed on such a subjective basis because the BS CANNOT PREDICT WHO WILL OR WON’T HAVE AN INFLUENCE OVER THE WS. Sorry, but unless you are psychic and your name is Madame Cleo, you don’t know. Many WS are estranged from a parent, sibling, pastor but that is not a knock out factor.
> 
> Threatening to expose. Using exposure as a threat only serves to forewarn the affairees and cause them to go further underground. All you have achieved is to give the enemy your battle plan so they can come back and kick your rear tomorrow. It also gives them an opportunity to pre-empt you and tell others you are “crazy” “jealous”. Then then when you do expose no one will take you seriously. Threatening to expose is the equivalent of giving your battle plan to the enemy. Don't do that! _


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## LovesHerMan

Great thread, almost. I would add that each post will reflect the experience of the poster, and so you will sometimes get contradictory advice. Read everyone's opinion, and select that which applies to your situation.

Some stories will resonate with you, and some with not help your situation at all. See if you can read between the lines for the viewpoint of the poster.


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## Almostrecovered

lovesherman said:


> Great thread, almost. I would add that each post will reflect the experience of the poster, and so you will sometimes get contradictory advice. Read everyone's opinion, and select that which applies to your situation.
> 
> Some stories will resonate with you, and some with not help your situation at all. See if you can read between the lines for the viewpoint of the poster.


I agree but I don't want posters to only heed advice that they simply wish to hear either.

*EDIT First post is long to add some stuff so I'll add it here so it's on the 1st page*


other helpful links:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/24796-just-let-them-go.html#post306559
The 180 rules
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/30098-forever-wearing-scarlett-letter.html#post400311


*For waywards wishing to help their betrayed spouses to read:*



chapparal said:


> Re: Trying to work marriage out, but seems one-sided. Need perspective please.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.
> 
> The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.
> 
> YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.
> 
> They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.
> 
> It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?
> 
> As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”
> 
> The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?
> 
> Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)
> 
> But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.
> 
> So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:
> 
> What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.
> 
> Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.
> 
> You can be a positive influence on their recovery.
> 
> Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.
> 
> Your first mission is to learn.
> 
> Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
> this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
> Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”
> 
> Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.
> 
> SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS
> 
> DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)
> 
> SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.
> 
> REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.
> 
> CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)
> 
> PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”
> 
> CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)
> 
> SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.
> 
> NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.
> 
> Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.
> 
> WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.
> 
> INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
> Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”
> 
> A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)
> 
> INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.
> 
> REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.
> 
> IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.
> 
> FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.
> 
> BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.
> 
> WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.
> 
> EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.
> 
> TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.
> 
> Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.
> 
> Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.
> 
> It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.
> 
> SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?
> 
> Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.
> 
> This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.
> 
> GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.
> 
> APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.
> 
> REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.
> 
> HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.
> 
> You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.
> 
> The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.
> 
> SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.
> 
> PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.
> 
> SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.
> 
> LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.
> 
> HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”
> 
> These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
> moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
> comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:
> 
> A statement of gratitude.
> 
> An expression of your love.
> 
> An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.
> 
> An admission that you caused their pain.
> 
> An expression of your sense of shame.
> 
> A promise that it will never happen again
> 
> Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.
> 
> SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?
> 
> HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
> for others.
> 
> COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.
> 
> SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
> begin exploring new involvements.
> 
> PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.
> 
> LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.
> 
> FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.
> 
> Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly!
> __________________


*More on remorse*



Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> FWIW... regarding indications of genuine remorse I once put together a short list on the subject of determining if your WS was being genuine and remorseful which some found useful... It's also along the lines of what lordmayhem shared...
> 
> ____________________________
> 
> *REMORSE*
> 
> There is no infallable way to know if what you are seeing is genuine remorse or not.
> 
> What I would start with would be your gut... that's where it all begins. No one knows your spouse quite the way that you do. Do you sense genuine remorse?
> 
> As with all people that mislead, lie or decieve there are always subtle non-verbal cues (facial expressions) which can give you some indication whether the person is being genuine...
> 
> People who fake remorse tend to show a greater range of emotional expressions and swing from one emotion to another very quickly - if the base emotional responses are grouped into three categories; Good (happy) /Neutral (neutral, surprise). /Bad (sadness, fear, anger, contempt, disgust) a person intentionally decieving you will tend to swing from category to category very quickly. Particularly from good to bad or bad to good (skipping nuetral). The phenomenon is referred to as emotional turbulence - They will also speak with more hesitation.
> 
> It might also bear mentioning that the saying about people lying not looking you in the eyes, is actually completely false in the case of WS's. You will find that they go out of the way to look you dead in the eyes while lying to you.
> 
> study
> 
> There are also some qualities/behaviors to look for when someone is genuinely remorseful...
> 
> They are signs/actions that someone will commonly exhibit (coping mechinisms) when internally healing from an action or decision that they have made which they feel was wrong... These are obviously not hard cold "musts" for a spouse to qualify as genuinely remorseful... But, I hope this gives you a "roadmap" of some indicators....
> 
> *1.* A remorseful spouse is willing if not eager to confess everything about the behaviors and mistakes they made. They commonly show a genuine desire to "come clean".
> 
> *2. *A remorseful spouse is openly accountable for their actions and seeks to identify and make changes to insure that this behavior does not reoccur. (They feel genuine pain, therefore they seek to prevent this pain from reoccuring. (normal human response to pain - AVOID IT) (No genuine pain = No reason to seek a solution to avoid repeating that pain).
> 
> *3. *A remorseful spouse will seek to "work", not only on themselves but on general life responsibilities. A remorseful spouse faces the responsibilities of thier day-to-day life and will often show increased motivation to meet those tasks. The work is often approached in a more "humble" way by the remorseful spouse.
> 
> *4. *A remorseful spouse will not object to limitations (i.e. transperency) set by the faithful spouse as a result their actions and in an effort to promote the healing of the violated trust.
> 
> *5. *A remorseful spouse faces the pain they have caused. A remorseful spouse will allow you to express the intesity of the feelings and hurt their actions have caused without justifying, minimizing or blame-shifting.
> 
> *6. *A remorseful spouse seeks forgiveness and respects the process of forgiveness often takes time. They will not be impatient or pressure the injured spouse to say "I forgive you" and will never exhibit a "get over it!" attitude.
> 
> Sorry you are all here, but hope this proves useful to you on your journey.


an excellent post on how EA's get started



F-102 said:


> Thanks for referencing my thread. I originally wrote it in response to one poster whose W had reconnected to an ex-BF on Facebook, and it outlined how it can go from "Hey, how's it going?" to "I hate my H's guts and I'm leaving him for you!"
> 
> Here's the unabridged version:
> 
> Right now, the texts/conversations may very well be just two old friends catching up but soon, if left unchecked, may very well morph into:
> 
> Their lives since they parted
> Their relationships since they parted
> Their families
> Their spouses
> You
> How you're an excellent father
> How you're a great husband
> How you're a wonderful guy
> Your job
> How your job keeps you busy
> How your job keeps you away
> How she sometimes feels a little lonely when you're away
> How she sometimes feels a little overburdened at home
> How she sometimes feels a little taken for granted
> How she feels that you don't ALWAYS listen to her
> How she feels that you don't ALWAYS understand her
> How she feels that sometimes you're just "not there" for her
> How, okay... you're not ALWAYS such a wonderful guy
> How she loved hearing from him again
> How she looks forward to his texts/calls/e-mails now
> How she feels young again
> How she feels appreciated again
> How she feels attractive again
> How it's so nice to have someone who just LISTENS to her again
> How it's been so, so long since you made her feel that way
> How her eyes have now been opened
> How she now realizes what she truly wants and needs
> How she now realizes that you could NEVER give her that
> How insensitive you can be some times
> How you can be a real jerk sometimes
> How she wonders if they would have stayed together
> How she now realizes that she never really loved you
> How she now realizes that she really loved him all along
> How she ever could have fallen for a jerk like you
> How you're the biggest a++hole she's ever known
> How you're standing in the way of her true happiness
> How you ruined her life
> How she made a big mistake marrying you
> How she made an even bigger mistake letting him go
> How now she sees that they were really meant to be together
> How she desperately has to get away from you
> How she's definitely going to leave you
> How she's talking to divorce lawyers
> How they're going to live happily ever after...
> 
> ...get the picture?


----------



## lordmayhem

This should be stickied!


----------



## this is bad

x2


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## disbelief

Very well said!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hijo

Great post AR.


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## MrQuatto

bumpin!!!


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## Almostrecovered

Edited to add weightlifter's evidence gathering advice



weightlifter said:


> Standard evidence post pasted below. Just do it. Its step by step.
> 
> Your wife is acting funny. Her phone and email suddenly have passwords you don't know. She shuts down phone apps or changes windows on the computer whenever you enter the room. She is suddenly staying out until 2 to 5 in the morning. She has new single friends. She has lost weight and is dressing hotter to boot. Her ex contacted her 3 weeks ago and she wants “to meet to catch up at some public place” “I love you but not in love with you.” or version thereof. Any of this sound familiar? If your wife comes home from an alone time does she immediately change liners, change panties possibly even immediately laundering them?, shower? This can be an after the fact clean up.
> 
> If you are reading this your gut is going crazy. “Relax”, in that there is a high liklihood that you are not crazy at least. “Your gut” is your basic instinct from the caveman period. There is something up with your mate. It is part of your mind built into you and in your DNA. You probably cant sleep. You are losing weight like crazy and are not hungry. Well if you are reading this and that is 90% of you reading this if its your first time... You are embarking on what is probably going to be the worst time of your life.
> 
> Chin up, yes I know it is damn near impossible to believe now, but I and the people at TAM here have taken dozens of men through this process. Some reconcile, most dont in the long run so be aware. Most of us hang around this grim grim place for a sense of “pay it forward” and “getting at the truth” Even in divorce, the long run the majority find love again... yes really. Often selecting a far far better future companion. Read poster BFF for a thread of disaster, divorce, recovery, and a new wonderful woman in his life. Younger and hotter, yes, but also one with better boundaries, often a far far better personality match. Oh and they get to go through that first time with her after the first I love you's have been exchanged. Just know, that for the majority, even if the marriage crashes, in six months, a year, maybe two you will wonder how you got so far so fast and how great your new life is. You will also be MUCH MUCH stronger as a person.
> 
> So. Here are your instructions. Do this now. I dont mean next week. I mean make something up within the next day and GET IT DONE! Not looking will only prolong your agony.
> Rule 1 for this.
> SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding.
> Rule 2 for this.
> SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding.
> Rule 3 for this.
> SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding.
> 
> NO MORE CONFRONTS!! Play dumb husband for a bit. Dont drive her further underground! Soft confronts with little evidence RARELY WORK AND ONLY MAKE GETTING AT THE TRUTH HARDER!!! THIS PROLONGS YOUR AGONY!
> 
> Buy 2 sony ICDPX312 or ICDPX333 voice activated recorders. Best Buy sells them for like 50 bucks. DO NOT BUY a cheap VAR. SONY SONY SONY. USE LITHIUM batteries. We have examples of 25 hour recordings using them on these sony recorders. My icon here IS a Sony ICDPX312. No I do not have stock in nor work for Sony.
> 
> Setup instructions are on page 19. Also good stuff on page 31.
> Use 44K bit rate for balancing file size vs quality DO NOT USE 8K!!!!! Simply put. The higher the quality the better the sound and 8K sucks. ALSO. The higher the quality the more you can manipulate the mp3 in Audacity.
> Set VOR "on" see page 38
> See page 40 for adding memory if necessary
> Play with it yourself to get familiar. TEST IT OUT
> Turn off the beep feature. Its on one of the menus. You can even play prevent defense by going to a dollar store, buying uber-cheapie earbuds, cut off the buds but put in the jack which will actually disable the speaker for additional protection.
> 
> Go to Walmart and buy heavy duty velcro.
> This is one item: Velcro Heavy-Duty Hook and Loop Fastener VEK90117: Office : Walmart.com
> also
> Purchase VELCRO Hook and Loop Fasteners, Sticky-Back, for less at Walmart.com. Save money. Live better.
> The velcro is usually in the fabric section or less often in the aisle with the fasteners like screws. The velcro pack is mostly blue with a yellow top. Clear pack shows the vecro color which is black or white.
> 
> Use the velcro to attach the var under her seat UP INSIDE. SECURE IT WELL!!!!!! So well even a big bump wont knock it off. attach one side HD velcro from Walmart to back. USE BIG PIECE
> attach other side HD velcro again UP INSIDE car seat. ATTACH THE CRAP out of it. It needs to stay put going over big potholes or railroad tracks.
> 
> Put the second VAR in whatever room she uses to talk in when you are not around. If you are a typical man, use your size advantage to put it someplace she cant reach, even on a chair. Beware spring cleaning season if she does it.
> 
> I recommend exporting the sound files to your comp. The recorder is very cumbersome for playback.
> 
> Amazon has a pen VAR that can be placed in a purse or other small place to get remote conversations. Yes the pen works.
> 
> IMPORTANT warning. If you hear another man and perhaps a little kissing or activity... STOP Listening and have a trusted friend listen and tell you what went on. Knowing she is a cheat will kill you. Hearing her moan while another man is inside her will murder you to your very soul!!!!!! You are not strong enough to hear that. Dont try it. I know what I am talking about in this.
> 
> If you need clean up the recordings get Audacity. Its free from the internet. I have used it on var work for others here to remove things like engine noise. If needed, I have done var work for four men here. RDMU is the only one who has released some of the confidentiality.
> 
> Lets be very clear about what the VAR is for and is not for. It will not be court admissible evidence. It is not for the confrontation. IT IS TO GET YOU AHEAD OF THE AFFAIR so you can gain other real evidence by knowing the who and when. NEVER MENTION YOUR VAR EVIDENCE. As far as the cheater is concerned, they were seen by a PI or something NOT your VAR!!
> 
> The ezoom GPS has been found to be easy to buy at Radio shack and useful. There is even a locator webpage you can track with. Amazon sells a semen detection kit called checkmate.
> 
> Look for a burner phone. This is a second phone from a prepay service just used for cheating communications. That is often why wives let the husband "see their phone" They don't use their main phone for cheating purposes.
> 
> There is an app out there called teensafe. Its for both Iphone and Android. It monitors texts, GPS and facebook. Needs no jailbreak. Not perfect and delayed but no jailbreak required.
> 
> Look for apps on her phone like words with friends. It has a non traceable texting feature.
> Here is a list 25 Apps to Help You Cheat On Your Girlfriend | Complex
> 
> If he uses chrome or firefox, there is probably a list of saved passwords you can look at. Even if his email isn't saved there, people usually only use a couple of different passwords, so one from the list might work.
> 
> For firefox it's Tools -> Options -> Security -> Saved Passwords
> 
> For Chrome it's the little box with three bars in the top right -> Settings - Show advanced settings -> Managed saved passwords
> 
> If paternity is in doubt, (gredit graywolf2) SNP Microarray: Unlike amniocentesis, a non-invasive prenatal paternity test does not require a needle inserted into the mother’s womb. The SNP microarray procedure uses new technology that involves preserving and analyzing the baby’s DNA found naturally in the mother’s bloodstream. The test is accurate, 99.9%, using a tiny quantity of DNA — as little as found in a single cell.
> 
> Credit john1068
> Is her internet browsers set up to use Google as the default search engine? And does she use a gmail account? If so, she can delete here browser history all she wants, that only deletes the history that is localbin the browser itself...
> 
> On ANY computer, navigate to https://google.com/history. Log in using her gmail credentials and you'll have all history right there. Cant be deleted unless your wife logs in this same way...she'd only be deleting Chrome, IE, or Firefox history, not the Google history when deleting within the browser itself.
> 
> There does not appear to be a function within the Android OS that allows the recall of deleted info as is found on IOS. However, even on Android, When a text is deleted, the OS simply "loses" the address to where it is on the memory chip, but it's still there.
> 
> Go to your computer and navigate to Dr. Fone for Android @ Dr.Fone for Android - Android Phone & Tablet Data Recovery SoftwareAndroid Phone Data Recovery.
> 
> You can download a trial version if you're operating system is XP/Vista/Win 7/Win 8 all on either 32 or 64 bit.
> 
> Download the program to your computer, open it, connect the Android phone to the computer via the micro USB cable and follow the instructions on the Dr. Fone program. You can recover deleted SMS, MMS, photos (yes, this includes SnapChats), vids, and documents.
> 
> Not everything is recoverable because the operating system continues to overwrite the data so if you don't recover this data on a regular basis, you may miss some pieces...
> 
> But there are also many Android apps that store deleted files and texts, even some that allow you to download and HID the app (ex. ).
> 
> They are also in her Spotlight Search...don't even need to connect to a computer. All deleted texts are still held onto. Type in the contact TELEPHONE number and every text, even the deleted ones, will show up in the search.
> 
> IOS 7 from any home screen put your finger in the middle of the screen and swipe downward. Enter the telephone number and start reading the hits.
> 
> IOS 6 from the first home screen, swipe left, enter the telephone number and start reading the hits.
> 
> Credit rodphoto 01162014
> After researching the web for countless hours about software to find deleted messages on my wife's iphone I figured out this super easy method.
> 
> From the home screen swipe left to right until the spotlight page appears. Its a screen with the key board at bottom and a box at the top that says "search iphone" type your typical search words, anything sexual etc... All past messeges containing the search word will appear on a list, deleted or not. You'll only get the first line but that is usually enough. Just busted my wife again doing this a few days ago!
> 
> Rugs: swipe left on your first page of the main menu.
> 
> "spotlight search" under settings -> general -> spotlight search has to show "messages" as ticked.
> 
> Right here, right now: Taking screenshots on iOS devices -> hold down home button and press sleep button. The screenshot will be placed under your photo album.
> 
> Also there is an app to "stitch" messages like a panoramic photo, but only for iPad. go to app store and search "stitch". Damn it's 4 am. i need to go to bed.
> 
> Note that this applies only to Spotlight Search in IOS 6 and lower. For IOS 7 running on Iphone 4 and 5, put your finger in the middle of any of the home screens and swipe downward.
> 
> Type in the search string you want (telephone number, contact name, keyword, etc) and it will search every instance in the iPhone where that appears.
> 
> You may FIRST want to go into the Settings>General>Spotlight Search and then check or uncheck the areas that you want to search - make certain that "messages" and "mail" are CHECKED or else your search will not look into these areas. The same info is on the spot light on the ipad too ! If the settings isnt checked off, you can find all the same history!
> 
> Credit tacoma 03072014
> 
> This Google search history page weightlifter mentioned here doesn't just record the search term it records everything spoken into Google Now by voice command. There is a text read out for everything spoken into the phone through Google Now and since Androids later versions have integrated Google Now right into the OS just about everything spoken into an Android phone is saved at https://google.com/history
> 
> Commands to call me, entire voice texts, everything said into the phone is right here. I don't even know how it could be deleted if you wanted to. Considering almost everyone has an Android phone and voice command is becoming more popular this is a nice tool for a BS. It even has every Google Maps/Navigator GPS search saved.


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## Almostrecovered

MrQuatto said:


> bumpin!!!



domo arigato Mr Quatto


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## AFEH

lovesherman said:


> Great thread, almost. I would add that each post will reflect the experience of the poster, and so you will sometimes get contradictory advice. Read everyone's opinion, and select that which applies to your situation.
> 
> Some stories will resonate with you, and some with not help your situation at all. See if you can read between the lines for the viewpoint of the poster.


Totally agree and that’s the beauty about TAM. There are so many different people with different experiences and opinions. And it’s all based on first hand personal experience, so it’s “knowledge”, not information from books or hearsay. In that way the collective knowledge in TAM is often better than an individual counsellor.


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## Mrs. T

AR...a great post!! So many of us don't want to hear the truth but here on TAM you will hear it over and over. Read it and then wake up folks!! This post is definitely link worthy. 

God, I love this place!!


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## Hoosier

Great post. This place has saved my life!


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## Wanabeelee

MrQuatto said:


> bumpin!!!


:iagree:


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## Almostrecovered

bumpin for the weekend


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## MrQuatto

bumps


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## Almostrecovered

Bumped for the Monday influx of noobs
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrQuatto

bump


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## uphillbattle

Why is this not a sticky yet?


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## Almostrecovered

mods havent stickied anything in ages it appears


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## UpperSideOfDown

Bumping for this weekend... this post is the reason I'll post.

"Sticky it" really would be a great idea... 
Bumping it up will be my weekend task from now on


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## lordmayhem

Also for the newbies: Please don't refer your wayward spouse to this site in the hopes that they will read the stories here and come to their senses and end their affair. No one who's cheating and in the affair fog is going to come to this site, have an epiphany, then suddenly end their affair, give full disclosure, and suddenly be remorseful for what they have done.

We talk about methods here of detection and investigation on these forums and WS's may find ideas on how to take their affair further underground, making it that much harder for the BS. 

So the first rule of TAM is: Don't talk about TAM! Especially with your WS.


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## lordmayhem

List of Acronyms of Infidelity so the newbies can follow the infidelity lingo here.

WW = Wayward Wife
WH = Wayward Husband
WS = Wayward Spouse
BH = Betrayed Husband
BW = Betrayed Wife
BS = Betrayed Spouse
LS = Loyal Spouse
DW = Disloyal Wife
DH = Disloyal Husband
DS = Disloyal Spouse
fWW = Former Wayward Wife
fWH = Former Wayward Husband
fWS = Former Wayward Spouse
OM = Other Man
OW = Other Woman
OMW = Other Man’s Wife
OWH = Other Woman’s Husband
AP = Affair Partner
R = Reconciliation
D = Divorce
DDay = Discovery Day
STBXH = Soon To Be Ex Husband
STBXW = Soon To Be Ex Wife
ILYBINILWY = I Love You But I’m Not In Love With You
EA = Emotional Affair
PA = Physical Affair
A = Affair
KISA = Knight In Shining Armor
VAR = Voice Activated Recorder
TT = Trickle Truth 
SAHM = Stay At Home Mom
SAHD = Stay At Home Dad
TF = Toxic Friend(s)


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## MrQuatto

lordmayhem said:


> Also for the newbies: Please don't refer your wayward spouse to this site in the hopes that they will read the stories here and come to their senses and end their affair. No one who's cheating and in the affair fog is going to come to this site, have an epiphany, then suddenly end their affair, give full disclosure, and suddenly be remorseful for what they have done.
> 
> We talk about methods here of detection and investigation on these forums and WS's may find ideas on how to take their affair further underground, making it that much harder for the BS.
> 
> So the first rule of TAM is: Don't talk about TAM! Especially with your WS.


:iagree:

Great Post Lord!


Also, Newbies, 

Do not tell your wayward your means of knowing about their affiar. Never reveal your sources, 

Never Beg, Cry or argue in front of or with them. You must take control of the situation and be the calm and logical one. Not saying try to reason them with logic.... Logic is your friend, not theirs. 

Begin the process of separating your finances, in case the relationship should implode. Make sure you have protected yourself financially as much as possible. This means separate checking, savings and credit cards. Cancel or place on hold any and all joint accouts or credit cards you can. Cancel any credit card in your name that your wayward may have access to or secure the cards from them.

Lastly, if you have proof, such as emails, texts, voice mails or such, get the info for the OM/OW's spouse/significant other and expose to them. Do not even hint to your wayward you are going to do that, just do it. There are many opinions here on whether you should or should not do that, but many of us on here see that the situations that have worked out for the marriage are thr ones where the affair was exposed to the OM/OW's significant other. The ones that were not exposed have almost never recovered.

Q~


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## X-unknown

A question then. In my case I was told a lie about how often they were in contact and who contacted who after the EA was exposed in therapy *and supposedly ended. I never said anything directly like "I have copies of your emails or phone bills - whatever" but I did say "Thats a lie here is what really happened" Once you have established the fact such as an EA is it still important to not reveal anything you know? Or just "how" you know? In my case it just made her clam up (more) and say things like "I had no idea it was that much contact" and then argue some sub point. 

Sorry - another question. When the WW says she wants to patch things up and has stopped contact. And things become super normal (Sex life returns it appears there is no contact - at least obvious) is that her sweeping it under the rug and if I go along but say in therapy this is not even close to over in my case??? 

I would really like to hear about people who found a way to R things. What worked? 



MrQuatto said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Great Post Lord!
> 
> 
> Also, Newbies,
> 
> Do not tell your wayward your means of knowing about their affiar. Never reveal your sources,
> 
> Never Beg, Cry or argue in front of or with them. You must take control of the situation and be the calm and logical one. Not saying try to reason them with logic.... Logic is your friend, not theirs.
> 
> Begin the process of separating your finances, in case the relationship should implode. Make sure you have protected yourself financially as much as possible. This means separate checking, savings and credit cards. Cancel or place on hold any and all joint accouts or credit cards you can. Cancel any credit card in your name that your wayward may have access to or secure the cards from them.
> 
> Lastly, if you have proof, such as emails, texts, voice mails or such, get the info for the OM/OW's spouse/significant other and expose to them. Do not even hint to your wayward you are going to do that, just do it. There are many opinions here on whether you should or should not do that, but many of us on here see that the situations that have worked out for the marriage are thr ones where the affair was exposed to the OM/OW's significant other. The ones that were not exposed have almost never recovered.
> 
> Q~


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## MrQuatto

X, the reason you dont reveal your sources is so they don't move to an alternative form of communication, ie secret phone or email accounts, etc. 

As for how to deal with the lies, i would simply say you know that x # of times or x situation was not a true an accurate #. Let them fret over how you know. That helps blow the secrecy off the affair and makes them face a little bit of reality.

Q~


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## lordmayhem

*Common Terms/Phrases About Infidelity*​
*Bunny Boiler* - taken from the Glenn Close character in 'Fatal Attraction', boiling her Ex'es pet rabbit. After a relationship break up, the person who wants some kind of revenge, like stalking, or harassment

*Cake Eater* – taken from the common phrase: Having their cake and eating it too. When the WS wants to have the security of marriage while at the same time, enjoy the affair. When the spouses are separated, the WS is described as cake eating when they try to keep in contact with the WS and give them the idea that the marriage can be salvaged, yet they are still carrying on the affair, in essence, keeping the BS on the line as their back up plan. Another term is “on the fence”. 

*DDay* – Otherwise known as Discovery Day. This is the initial period when the BS actually learns of the affair, either through investigation, being informed of the A, or if the WS confesses to the A. The initial pain that occurs on DDay can be indescribable.

*Emotional Roller Coaster* – a normal result of being betrayed after D-Day. The BS will experience wide swings of emotion after being betrayed. These feelings can change from moment to moment or day to day, or as the result of having a trigger. One moment, the BS will feel extreme anger towards their WS, then the emotion swings the other way and they will feel love toward their WS and feel they cannot live without them.

*False R* – False Reconciliation is when the WS has kept in contact with the Other Person (OP) and taken the affair underground and the BS discovers the communication, or when the WS breaks No Contact (NC) and it is discovered. This False R is another DDay.

*Fishing* – due to the extremely strong addiction that an affair brings, one of the affair partners will break NC and attempt to send out a feeler or “fish” for renewed contact. This can be as simple as a “How are you?”, “Are you okay?”, “Miss You”, etc, which can be sent thru email, text, or a brief phone call. 

*Fog* - The term “affair fog” is often used by experts and affair victims to describe the euphoria that someone involved in an affair feels. Think of how good you felt when you first fell in love. During this period, the cheater will often rationalize their actions in order to minimize their feelings of guilt — often to the extent that they “invent” reasons for having the affair in the first place. Healing from infidelity is impossible while one is in this fog.

The wayward spouse may convince themselves that they are in a bad marriage or that their spouse doesn’t really love or understand them, when that really isn’t necessarily the case. Soon the cheating spouse begins to actually believe these lies that they have been telling themselves and therefore act accordingly by treating their spouse badly yet treating their affair partner in a loving and affectionate way. This is how the affair addiction begins to take momentum.

An affair fog is nothing more than a fantasy created by the affair partners. All the wonderful qualities each partner possess are without flaws, weaknesses or selfishness. The affair partners are under the influence of an addictive drug similar to a teenager in love, and unfortunately it is very difficult to remove them from this fog.

The Affair Fog

*Hypervigilance* – after the emotional devastation of D-Day, the BS often becomes hypervigilant because of the extreme emotional trauma as the result of all trust being broken by the WS. The BS will be watching the WS intensely, looking for any and all threats.

*Hysterical Bonding* – from the SI website: Upon being confronted with the undeniable reality that their most trusted spouse has betrayed them with another, some BS's experience an overwhelming sexual desire for their wayward spouse. Many couples claim to have had the best, most intense and loving sex of their relationship during the period following the discovery of an affair, (generally a few weeks to several months), often trying new things and experimenting in ways they had never considered before. This phenomenon is termed "Hysterical Bonding. 

There is very little information on this phenomenon, but it appears to be a primal, instinctual way for the partners to reconnect and reclaim each other. While it may feel counter-intuitive to the BS; as if they are "rewarding" the WS for the affair, hysterical bonding can be a stepping stone to reconciliation. The intimacy encourages communication and a closeness that may otherwise take some time to re-build. 

The occurrence or absence of hysterical bonding does not appear to be an indicator of successful reconciliation. Many other factors, such as the WS's remorse and openness are far more reliable indicators. Hysterical bonding is, however, normal, and nothing for the BS to be alarmed about or ashamed about experiencing. In fact, it has been said it is the one positive in an otherwise long and miserable experience, so enjoy it while it lasts!

*Limbo* – This is the stage every BS is in on and after DDay. The A can still be ongoing, or it may have already stopped. It’s called limbo because the BS has not moved toward D, and he/she not moved toward R. Only decisive action towards R or D will get the BS out of limbo. Many BSs are in False R because they tried to R too quickly before conditions and requirements for True R are met, and are therefore still in limbo. Being in limbo can be the most agonizing part of discovering an A.

*Mind Movies* – This is when a BS has flashbacks or imagines what the BS was doing with their AP, such as imagining them texting or talking on the phone, chatting on the computer, and/or imagining their WS having sex with their AP. Some mind movies are actually worse than what happened in reality, while others are tame in comparison to what their WS did with their AP (think porno style sex). Many BSs constantly have mind movies during the intial period right after DDay, or even before DDay when they suspect their WS is having an A. Mind movies can occur at any stage of the healing process, although it seems to occur less and less frequently as time goes by and the R process is going fairly well.

*Rug Sweeping* – the act of forgiving a wayward spouse for the affair too quickly and trying to reconcile with the WS and move on and put the affair behind them. This is the most common mistake that newly betrayed spouses make. No issues are resolved, and usually results in another D-Day. BS’s and WS’s rug sweep for different reasons. BS’s rug sweep because they are in shock and denial, want to avoid any further emotional pain and desperately want to save their marriages. WSs rug sweep because they don’t want to be held accountable for the affair and suffer any further guilt (if they have any guilt at all), or they want to take the affair further underground.

*Going Underground *– Upon being discovered on D-Day, because of the addictive nature of the affair and the WS still being in the fog, the WS will often continue the affair using more secretive means

*Trickle Truth (TT)* - the act of minimizing actions during an affair. The WS will often only admit after many denials, that information that he/she thinks their BS knows about. The truth only slowly trickles out after each new discovery that the BS makes. Each time TT happens, it is considered another D-Day, sending the BS into yet another agonizing incident of pain. For example: A WS will often say their AP is just a friend, then the BS will discover more. Only when confronted with more evidence or further questioning, the WS may only admit to hugging and/or kissing, then when confronted with more evidence or questioning, admit to having oral sex, or a single sexual encounter, when in reality, it was more than a single sexual encounter. WSs will often say the sex was bad.

*Triggers* - These are events or circumstances that will “trigger” a BSs memory of the A, or even trigger a mind movie. These can range from a holiday, a picture, the way a BS acts, etc. Basically anything that triggers a memory of the A or mind movies. Triggers can be devastating, and reminds the BS of the pain they experienced from the A. A remorseful WS should be helping the BS when he/she triggers. Triggers seem to come less and less often as time goes by. Some will always have some kind of trigger that reminds them of the A. It is completely normal to have triggers.

*True R* – True Reconciliation is when the WS has kept NC with their AP and it has been verified. This is when the WS is truly remorseful in their actions. They are willingly transparent, and their behavior has changed and they have recommitted to their BS, the marriage, and/or any children. A truly remorseful WS will not rug sweep and is willing to discuss the A without getting defensive. They are willing to be transparent without getting defensive. They are willing to do anything to help the BS regain their trust in them. Both spouses are working on themselves and the marriage.


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## Almostrecovered

edited the first page so it includes the two LM posts on the 1st page


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## ArmyofJuan

I remember when I was in my situation, I did not want to accept all the negative advice I was hearing and ended up doing things “my way”. By “my way” I mean I did everything wrong. I made every mistake in the book thinking I was the exception to the rule and that all the advice I read was from people who were bitter trying to live through me. They just wanted my WW to suffer because of what happened to them. This was my own denial talking.

What I learned is NOBODY is the exception and the “fog” isn’t just for the WS, the BS goes through it to. People in affair act in a VERY predictable manner and they almost always end the same way and react the same way to stimulus. 


A few thoughts:
You can’t “nice” them out of an affair. Being nice enables affairs and basically lets them get away with it so they’ll do it again. There HAS to be negative consequences or nothing will be gained. 

Affairs are addictions and they will act just like a drug addict. They will lie and hide their affairs and take advantage of your kindness to continue the affair. They will also, like a drug addict, make the affair their top priority; ahead of you, the marriage, the kids, their own job, ect.

Affairs survive in darkness; they can last years if nobody knows about them but will die if exposed. The appeal is that it’s secret and taboo so once it is exposed then reality sets in. Reality is the number one killer of affairs. 

Affairs usually only fill one void in the WS life (no pun intended). While in an affair the other “voids” are still taken care of by the BS but is overlooked by the WS at the time. One of the primary reasons 97% of affairs die once they are exposed is because the BS cuts off their support and the WS realizes their BS did more for them than they thought. Very much a “don’t know what you got until it’s gone” thing. The AP might be good at saying the right things but might suck at sex, money, taking care of the kids, have things in common, ect. These are things the WS won’t realize until they actually try to have a relationship with them.

Affairs make the WS feel “high”. To counteract this I suggest anxiety. The fear of losing everything (the BS, their marriage, their kids, their home, job) will force them to think about if it’s really worth it. It takes a while before it all sinks in which is needed (weeks, sometimes months). Never trust them if they do a 180 overnight (they want the AP one minute, the marriage the next). Nothing ever changes for good overnight.

Time is on your side. Once an affair has been exposed then the clock is ticking for it to end. Emotions can’t be turned off overnight so it will take a few months before it will resolve itself. Rushing things is a recipe for failure.

Exposing the A to the other BS is VERY important. This tends to get the AP off your back by making them focus on their own relationship plus it’s just the right thing to do. Wouldn’t you want to know? I didn’t do this and I wish I had.

180/Tough Love approach tends to be the ONLY method that works. You can’t change the WS but you can change yourself and that will have an effect on them. The goal is to make yourself happy without them and show them you don’t need them. They cheated because they didn’t respect you and odds are you don’t even respect yourself. Once they realize you will be fine without them they tend to panic and realize they made a mistake and try to win you back.

The people who have the best chance to reconcile are the ones that DON’T want to reconcile. I don’t know how many stories I’ve read where the BS finds out about an affair, blows their top and immediately files for a divorce and flat out rejects anything the WS says and then complains because the WS is BEGGING AND PLEADING to work on the marriage. This is the holy grail of most BS and yet they are complaining about it. 

Be careful what you wish for. When someone cheats that’s a deal breaker for most but some people have their egos so crushed that they will put up with anything to get the WS back. Once they get them back then resentment rears its ugly head. Suddenly you realized that they screwed around and they get rewarded by having a better spouse and you get “rewarded” by getting back an unfaithful spouse. Ask yourself if it’s really worth it?

Don’t be afraid of ending things, even if you have to bluff. Reassuring them that you will always be there for them and that you don’t want a divorce takes away any motivation to stop and work on the marriage. Why would they if you are not going to do anything about it and volunteer to be a backup plan?

Don’t wait on them; move forward as if you are getting a divorce. It the WS’s job to stop you since they screwed up it’s up to them to fix it, not you. I made the mistake of thinking if I fixed all my issues then my WW would come back, NOPE. I became the perfect husband (something I did need to do) but the draw of the affair was just too powerful at the time. It took giving up on her and moving towards a divorce before she finally woke up. When the WS has to choose between the AP and the BS, they tend to go for the one they fear they may lose the most. This tend to be the AP (they are still in the honeymoon stage and still a bit insecure) but as a BS you reject them and let them know you will not take them back then that makes them go for you.

Getting the WS back is the easy part, making them stay is hard. I had 2 false R because I was the nice guy and wanted to martyr myself. You don’t get respect that way; you get respect by standing up for yourself and rejecting them for what they did to you. Anger can be your ally and keep you from becoming a doormat. The WS doesn’t want to come back to a sad sap that’s depressed all the time, they want someone that can live without them and isn’t needy.

There’s never a point of no return. Just because you or they say it’s over forever and that there’s no turning back doesn’t actually mean anything. My FWW told me that more than once and she has eaten a lot of crow for that. You are better off telling them you don’t want them back than telling them you want to work on the marriage.


Sorry so long. I screwed up big time back then and today I see the error of my ways and more important WHY they are errors. When I see someone go down the wrong path like I did I feel compelled to stop them even if it falls on deaf ears.


----------



## lordmayhem

Well said! This is a must read for all newly betrayed
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Wanabeelee said:


> :iagree:


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Bump How does a thread get stickied?


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## lordmayhem

Bump for us jaded folks and for the newbies new to being enrolled in this club that no one wants to be a part of.


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## Guy66

Thanks for all this great information, help, and care.

I just found this site yesterday from a link on another blog.

Thanks to all the suggestions, I'm now finally at the point where I understand that I need to work on my own independence and get to where I don't need my wife for anything. I'm just beginning to work on myself, but I do now see that I need to get to that point so I can let her go if she decides to go to her EA partner. I'm not quite ready to force her to make that decision, but it is getting closer each day.


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## HerToo

Moving this up to the top for incoming from a different forum.


----------



## lordmayhem

*Before You Say Reconcile*

All credit for this goes to a poster named Fighting2Survive at the SurvivingInfidelity forum. It's a great guide to see if your WS is truly remorseful or just trying to sweep it under the rug.










*INDICATORS OF REMORSE* 
* Actions match words. 
* Accepts full responsibility for the affair without blaming the BS, a bad marriage, or other outside factors. 
* Expresses sorrow for hurting the BS and the M. 
* Shows compassion and actively assists the BS with handling triggers. 
* Does not become defensive or shut down when BS brings up affair-related emotions, issues, or questions. 
* Answers questions honestly and completely. 
* Does not avoid the BS or become frustrated that the BS is not “healing fast enough.” 
* Contributes at least 60% of the joint effort at rebuilding the marriage. 
* Actively works to understand why he or she made the choice to have an affair and shares insights with BS. 
* Does not think solely about himself or herself. Considers how actions impact the BS. 


Remorse is so important to R. It's the conerstone that everything else is built on. Without it, the M can not heal. 

Remorse involves far more than just saying "I'm sorry." It's conveyed through consistent actions. The above list is not comprehensive, but it is meant to be an example that the FWS's behavior should be clear sign that he or she understands the pain the A caused and is committed to healing the M. Simply hanging around the house is not remorse. And it is not R.


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## Thorburn

Thanks. This post really helped me today.


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## Eli-Zor

No Contact Letter - information below extracted from another forum 



> Once the affair has come to light there must be proper closure to the affair. An agreement must be made between that all contact must end between the Wayward Spouse and the Affair Partner and it must be permanent. There are no if’s, and’s or but’s on this one. This MUST be done for there to be any healing in the marriage. The Wayward Spouse must commit to the No Contact Agreement. Every time the Agreement has been broken the Wayward Spouse must tell the Betrayed Spouse about it as soon as possible. Even if it wasn’t them that broke it, any contact whatsoever should be told immediately. This will build some trust back up in your marriage if this is done every time.
> 
> Writing a No Contact Letter to the Affair Partner is the best way to end the affair. This way everything that needs to be said can be with no interruptions and without adding or saying anything you don’t want said. Doing it over the phone or by email allows things to open back up for the OP to respond...and that's what you are clearly trying to avoid.
> 
> It should be written in the Wayward Spouse’s own handwriting. It really should be sent certified. Remember, this isn’t a “goodbye forever love letter” but it’s really stating that the affair is over, it was wrong, you were selfish, you love your spouse and family very much and you want to make your marriage work and that you’ll be fighting and working on saving your marriage. You should also state how much you have hurt your spouse and how you are going to spend the rest of your life making it up to them.
> 
> You also state how you no longer EVER want the affair partner to contact you in ANY way, shape or form. If the Wayward Spouse does this just for his/her spouse and continues contact with the Affair Partner, then the Affair Partner won’t take the No Contact Letter seriously. It also might not be taken seriously by the Affair Partner if the Wayward Spouse has tried numerous times to break it off with the Affair Partner only to come back time and time again. So, the Wayward Spouse must stand firm and continually tell the Affair Partner how much he loves his wife and wants to work on their marriage.
> 
> If you get continued contact the best defense is to IGNORE ALL CONTACT!! The Affair Partner thinks that if they can’t just get the Wayward Spouse to talk to them then the affair will continue on.
> 
> After the Wayward Spouse has finished the No Contact Letter, the Betrayed Spouse should read it, if it wasn’t written together. There should be nothing in the letter hinting about missing the Affair Partner, and that the letter doesn’t mean anything, etc.



Here is an example of a No Contact Letter:



> Dear [put name here],
> 
> The relationship I had with you was thoughtless and cruel. It hurt many people, particularly my spouse, who did not deserve to be treated that way. I am committed to my marriage and determined to make up for all the hurt I've caused my family. I am going to work hard to be the best husband/wife that he/she deserves.
> 
> 
> Because of the terrible offense to my spouse and the damage I have done to our marriage, I am permanently ending all contact with you. Please respect my wish to regain my integrity, and to heal my family. Please also respect my wish that you not attempt to contact me in any way at any time.
> 
> My spouse has all the details of our relationship and he/she will also be told of any attempts at contact.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> 
> [name here]


----------



## Eli-Zor

lordmayhem I am on your thread....again  apologies, got the wrong name its your thread Almostrecovered

Advice on exposure :-




> *Exposure targets*
> Parents of all concerned, family, close friends, children of the BS, workplace [if a workplace affair], spouse of the OP, pastor. Facebook friends of OP.
> 
> *Exposure Timing*
> Exposure should be done immediately. The longer you wait, the more entrenched the affair becomes. There is never any “perfect” time to expose, so don’t delay while looking for an imaginary perfect time.
> 
> *Expose on the SAME DAY* – or as close as possible – in order to achieve a tsunami effect. The affairees should be completely taken by surprise. Doing this creates a powerful hit on the affair and prevents the affairees from pre-empting you
> 
> *Exposure Tactics*
> 
> *Spouse of affair partner*- Give your full name, phone # and email address. Tell the other BS all about the affair, offer to share all evidence with him/her. Offer to follow up to ensure that contact is truly ended and ask the other BS to do the same. The other BS will be shocked when you tell him, so be sure and give your email address and phone # for follow up questions. ALWAYS GIVE THE OTHER BS YOUR WS'S PHONE # IN CASE HE/SHE WANTS TO CALL.
> 
> *Parents, close family, friends* – Tell them about the affair, giving them names, general timelines, etc. Explain you are attempting to save your marriage and would be willing to forgive your WS if he/she ended the affair. Ask them to use their influence to persuade the WS to end her affair. A way to save time is to call both sets of parents and send an email to the other close family and friends. Template letter posted below
> 
> *Parents of OP*. Give your full name and explain why you are calling. Ask them to use their influence with their son/daughter to persuade them to leave your spouse alone. It might also help if the PARENT of the WS calls them too.
> 
> *Workplace exposure*: Expose to Director of Human Resources, a key VP and both of the affairee’s supervisors using the template letter posted below.
> 
> *Facebook exposure*: Should be done to the OP’s facebook friends via private message. This is a very, very effective exposure because it is a collection of the OP’s closest friends and family. SPACE THE PM’S OUT 60 SECONDS APART SO FB DOES NOT SHUT YOU DOWN FOR FLOODING. Before you begin, copy and paste all the contacts into a WORD doc. Change your fb picture to a picture of you and your spouse and children. Template letters posted below.
> 
> *The Fallout*
> Expect your spouse to be FURIOUS and to make all manner of threats, “I was going to work on the marriage, now I am not!!” “I cannot trust you” “You have to pack and leave!!” “You have ruined any chance you had!!” Do not let this bother you!! Just imagine that you have taken the crackpipe away from the crack head. Of course they are angry. But it will blow over. Don’t laugh, don’t fight, don't attempt to reason with them, and most of all, don’t be SCARED! Your marriage can survive some temporary anger, it cannot survive an ongoing affair! The madder your WS, the harder you hit the target!
> 
> The goal is to save your marriage, NOT to avoid your wayward spouse's anger at all costs.
> 
> Just say, "I am so sorry you are upset.
> 
> *Common Exposure Mistakes*
> 
> Telling the WS that you got the idea to expose on the internet rather than taking ownership of your actions. Then the discussion becomes “who???” You need to OWN IT. Saying somebody told you to do it does not work for 5 year olds and it won’t work for you!
> 
> *Keeping exposure a secret.* Yes, you read right. But we have had exposure targets say “ok, I will keep this a secret!!” And they never tell the WS they know. That defeats the entire purpose. If that person won’t help you by speaking to your WS, at least TELL the WS that person knows.
> 
> 
> *Doing trickle exposures*. Meaning exposing to just a few people but not to everyone that could have an influence. Trickle exposures are a disaster because they are not enough to kill the affair but just enough to infuriate the WS enough to come after the BS. So the exposure essentially only served to beat down the already beaten BS for no benefit.
> 
> Eliminating exposure targets because that person “has no influence over my WS” even though this is a person with long history over the WS. Such as a mother or father. Such targets cannot be dismissed on such a subjective basis because the BS CANNOT PREDICT WHO WILL OR WON’T HAVE AN INFLUENCE OVER THE WS. Sorry, but unless you are psychic and your name is Madame Cleo, you don’t know. Many WS are estranged from a parent, sibling, pastor but that is not a knock out factor.
> 
> *Threatening to expose*. Using exposure as a threat only serves to forewarn the affairees and cause them to go further underground. All you have achieved is to give the enemy your battle plan so they can come back and kick your rear tomorrow. It also gives them an opportunity to pre-empt you and tell others you are “crazy” “jealous”. Then then when you do expose no one will take you seriously. Threatening to expose is the equivalent of giving your battle plan to the enemy. Don't do that!




Facebook or email template



> Should be done to the OW/OM’s Facebook friends via private message. This is an effective exposure as it is a collection of the OW/OM’s closest friends and family. Space the private messages 60 seconds apart so Facebook does not shut you down for flooding the system. Copy and paste all the contacts into a word document. Change the gender as required.
> 
> 
> Dear friend of XXX (Full name)
> 
> It grieves me to write this letter but I believe all of his/her friends should know the kind of person he/she really is. XXX is having an affair with my wife/husband , (name of your spouse) YYYY, from ZZZ (month or year) until ZZZ (month or year) . I believe that his/her friends should know this, so you can protect your marriage from him/her. My wife/husband and I have X small children and this affair has almost wrecked our marriage.
> 
> I would be happy to provide the evidence to anyone who asks.
> 
> I would appreciate it if someone would notify his parents and ask them to call me at xxx-www-xxxx.
> 
> Thank you
> (Betrayed Spouse’s name)



Workplace template




> To Whom It May Concern: XXXX
> 
> This letter is to bring a matter to your attention that may be a violation of your Company's Code of Conduct and/or other policies, procedures and business ethics.
> 
> (Your wayward spouse name ) and OM/OW (name) are involved in an extramarital affair that is taking place, primarily, in the workplace. Aside from the potential sexual harassment claims this situation presents, it also involves the inappropriate use of company resources and assets.
> (Your wayward spouse name ) and OM/OW (name) are using company time and company resources to further their affair. If you check the call histories on their office and cell phones along with their workstation computers, you will find the two of them are spending an inordinate amount of what should be productive work time to further their sexual relationship.
> 
> If you have any questions, please call me at xxx-xxxx. Otherwise, I will anticipate a response from you once you have investigated these concerns and taken appropriate corrective action.
> 
> Regards,


For information : I am not the creator of the above templates, they were borrowed from another pro-marriage forum.

More information from another poster , Affaircare

Just to be clear, let's define a few things:

GASLIGHTING-- Gaslighting is a form of mental abuse where false information is presented as true in such a way as to make the "victim" doubt their own observation, their own memory or their own perception. A perfect example of this would be if your spouse were missing all of January 1st, came stumbling home January 2nd, and you have a recording your spouse on January 2nd talking in their own car to another person saying they had sex, and they try to tell you "No you're mistaken. I said that on January 3rd and remember WE had sex that night before, so I was talking about that!" You KNOW what you have, but they are trying to spin the false information to make you doubt your own self. 

RUGSWEEPING-- Rugsweeping is a form of denial. Either the Loyal Spouse or the Disloyal Spouse can do this, and basically it is named after the idea of sweeping dirt under the rug, so that it's not really clean at all...just hidden! Same here. The issues in the marriage are not addressed. There is no real repentance by the Disloyal Spouse ... or the Loyal Spouse just pretends that "now that the Disloyal is back everything can go back to normal." It's fake. 

RECONCILIATION-- Reconciliation is when two things occur: 1) the Disloyal Spouse is truly repentant and does a complete about-face regarding the affair, taking complete personal responsibility, and 2) the Loyal Spouse truly acknowledges the issues and forgives the Disloyal, working on making the marriage a place that is mutually intimate and loving. If both things don't occur, then reconciliation can not occur. (Now... they could continue to live together and co-parent but it would not be a "marriage" relationship--it would be like roommates. ) 

It is entirely possible in reconciliation that the Loyal Spouse may want to know every single detail about the affair, the other person, each sexual contact, etc. But it is equally possible that the Loyal Spouse may consider it enough to know that their spouse was unfaithful and have reason to believe that is no longer the case--some sort of provable evidence--and be willing to move on from there and rebuild trust. Each Loyal Spouse is different. But overall the following concepts remain the same:
Gaslighting tries to present false info as true--this does not lead to recovery.
Rugsweeping denies that there was a problem and pretends everything is okay--this also does not lead to recovery.
Reconciliation acknowledges the problems, each party looks at their own self, each party does their own work AND does the work to build the marriage, but the level of details may vary--this DOES lead to recovery.


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## Almostrecovered

added a whole bunch of stuff to the 1st page

thanks guys


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## lordmayhem

Bump for the New Year


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

FWIW... regarding indications of genuine remorse I once put together a short list on the subject of determining if your WS was being genuine and remorseful which some found useful... It's also along the lines of what lordmayhem shared...

____________________________

*REMORSE*

There is no infallable way to know if what you are seeing is genuine remorse or not.

What I would start with would be your gut... that's where it all begins. No one knows your spouse quite the way that you do. Do you sense genuine remorse? 

As with all people that mislead, lie or decieve there are always subtle non-verbal cues (facial expressions) which can give you some indication whether the person is being genuine...

People who fake remorse tend to show a greater range of emotional expressions and swing from one emotion to another very quickly - if the base emotional responses are grouped into three categories; Good (happy) /Neutral (neutral, surprise). /Bad (sadness, fear, anger, contempt, disgust) a person intentionally decieving you will tend to swing from category to category very quickly. Particularly from good to bad or bad to good (skipping nuetral). The phenomenon is referred to as emotional turbulence - They will also speak with more hesitation.

It might also bear mentioning that the saying about people lying not looking you in the eyes, is actually completely false in the case of WS's. You will find that they go out of the way to look you dead in the eyes while lying to you. 

study

There are also some qualities/behaviors to look for when someone is genuinely remorseful... 

They are signs/actions that someone will commonly exhibit (coping mechinisms) when internally healing from an action or decision that they have made which they feel was wrong... These are obviously not hard cold "musts" for a spouse to qualify as genuinely remorseful... But, I hope this gives you a "roadmap" of some indicators....

*1.* A remorseful spouse is willing if not eager to confess everything about the behaviors and mistakes they made. They commonly show a genuine desire to "come clean". 

*2. *A remorseful spouse is openly accountable for their actions and seeks to identify and make changes to insure that this behavior does not reoccur. (They feel genuine pain, therefore they seek to prevent this pain from reoccuring. (normal human response to pain - AVOID IT) (No genuine pain = No reason to seek a solution to avoid repeating that pain).

*3. *A remorseful spouse will seek to "work", not only on themselves but on general life responsibilities. A remorseful spouse faces the responsibilities of thier day-to-day life and will often show increased motivation to meet those tasks. The work is often approached in a more "humble" way by the remorseful spouse. 

*4. *A remorseful spouse will not object to limitations (i.e. transperency) set by the faithful spouse as a result their actions and in an effort to promote the healing of the violated trust. 

*5. *A remorseful spouse faces the pain they have caused. A remorseful spouse will allow you to express the intesity of the feelings and hurt their actions have caused without justifying, minimizing or blame-shifting.

*6. *A remorseful spouse seeks forgiveness and respects the process of forgiveness often takes time. They will not be impatient or pressure the injured spouse to say "I forgive you" and will never exhibit a "get over it!" attitude. 

Sorry you are all here, but hope this proves useful to you on your journey.


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## avalanches

I just started reading this board today and decided to sign up as I figure I can take another big step in facing what I fear is going on. Thank you for giving it a name, limbo, as that is what it is.


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## AngryandUsed

Thanks AlmostRecovered. Great, clear writing. Well placed references. We are also grateful to Lord Mayhem for his wisdom. Morituri, and aug are also very proactive in airing their views. One feature you may like to add is private messaging. Good work and help, AR. This should be stickied!


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## Almostrecovered

added more to the 1st page, first post was too long to add to so I edited my 2nd post


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## lostlindsey

Thanks for directing me here. A must read for newbies!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered

weekend bump


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## Almostrecovered

Bump for the recent arrivals, all aboard!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

bump


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## lordmayhem

Bumpity bump bump


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## MrQuatto

bump


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## lordmayhem

bump for the incoming newly betrayed from Valentines week.


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## lordmayhem

It's been a week. Bump for the newbies.


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## lordmayhem

It's been a week. Bump for the newbies who are at least willing to listen to the *collective wisdom *of all those who have been through this. The experience here has been dearly paid for. No, we're not professional counselors with a piece of paper framed on a wall, just people who've learned and read what usually works and what usually doesn't. 

Take it or leave it. Its up to you.


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## myelw316

I have a question for you about the complete transparency/remorse.
My H (after moving back in after a 3 month separation) left his phone out all the time, left papers printed of back and forth conversations between he and the EA (PA, on the weekend prior to his return, most likely...we live 12 hours from her and they met halfway for the new years eve weekend).

I DID in fact read the emails he left access to on the computer, left text messages I read, letters to each other he left in the suitcase in my closet for me to find. I normally have a very short fuse, but because he was gone for 3 months, I really worked on some things that needed fixing....my threatening divorce if I didn't get my way, my being critical of him constantly....I had issues. I worked on them and they are truly dealt with. But because of this, I learned everything he left out, but I never 'confronted' him. I believe he expected it (he had EA many many many years ago ...last time we had a 2 year old....this time we have a 2 year old again. I think it is a trigger because I end up ignoring him for the pregnancy/baby/toddler ...not sexually ignoring, but positive attention ignoring and this time he had his vasectomy reversed because I wanted another baby.) So I definitely am taking my share of responsibility ...I let him down. I don't think I 'deserve' the affair, but I understand how it did happen and I do want a fresh start.

What I would like to know is....I feel my non-confrontational husband's 'way' to be transparent was to leave everything out for me to see. Then he waited and I never blew up. Never even mentiioned it. I think he lost respect for me at that point and started acting distant and sometimes mean. Prior to Valentine's Day he 'forced the issue' (in my opinion) by suggesting he would need to go to see her for a 'week or two' for her 'recovery' (she had surgery). I said absolutely not. He said 'I can go for a week or two or for good'. To which I replied 'Do you want to be with HER or do you want to be with ME'. I said this maybe 10 times in response to anything he said. He didn't go. That night he was VERY close to me, huggging, kissing...when he had come home earlier for lunch I said 'you know you can't have both of us and I can blow up at you about it, but I would prefer you just do what's right. Do you NEED me to give you the ultimatum?' He said no...and things were good for a bit after that...really was a turning point overall. 

BUT...I have this feeling that the reason the contact goes on daily on the phone/text is because I never blew up or never said 'look at all this stuff I know that you left out'. Partly because he kind of insinuated in the beginning that he can't 'feel controlled' and he doesn't need a 'monitor' instead of a spouse. It's like he SAYS he doesn't want me to snoop and confront, but it's also like for us to get better and for him to let go of her I almost feel like he NEEDS me to say I snooped and confront him with every thing he said and did. Does that make ANY sense??

Does anyone else here have a spouse that left stuff out either on purpose or subconsciously ?
Is that for 'discovery' and did it help the recovery to discuss it?


----------



## strugglinghusband

myelw316 said:


> I have a question for you about the complete transparency/remorse.
> My H (after moving back in after a 3 month separation) left his phone out all the time, left papers printed of back and forth conversations between he and the EA (PA, on the weekend prior to his return, most likely...we live 12 hours from her and they met halfway for the new years eve weekend).
> 
> I DID in fact read the emails he left access to on the computer, left text messages I read, letters to each other he left in the suitcase in my closet for me to find. I normally have a very short fuse, but because he was gone for 3 months, I really worked on some things that needed fixing....my threatening divorce if I didn't get my way, my being critical of him constantly....I had issues. I worked on them and they are truly dealt with. But because of this, I learned everything he left out, but I never 'confronted' him. I believe he expected it (he had EA many many many years ago ...last time we had a 2 year old....this time we have a 2 year old again. I think it is a trigger because I end up ignoring him for the pregnancy/baby/toddler ...not sexually ignoring, but positive attention ignoring and this time he had his vasectomy reversed because I wanted another baby.) So I definitely am taking my share of responsibility ...I let him down. I don't think I 'deserve' the affair, but I understand how it did happen and I do want a fresh start.
> 
> What I would like to know is....I feel my non-confrontational husband's 'way' to be transparent was to leave everything out for me to see. Then he waited and I never blew up. Never even mentiioned it. I think he lost respect for me at that point and started acting distant and sometimes mean. Prior to Valentine's Day he 'forced the issue' (in my opinion) by suggesting he would need to go to see her for a 'week or two' for her 'recovery' (she had surgery). I said absolutely not. He said 'I can go for a week or two or for good'. To which I replied 'Do you want to be with HER or do you want to be with ME'. I said this maybe 10 times in response to anything he said. He didn't go. That night he was VERY close to me, huggging, kissing...when he had come home earlier for lunch I said 'you know you can't have both of us and I can blow up at you about it, but I would prefer you just do what's right. Do you NEED me to give you the ultimatum?' He said no...and things were good for a bit after that...really was a turning point overall.
> 
> BUT...I have this feeling that the reason the contact goes on daily on the phone/text is because I never blew up or never said 'look at all this stuff I know that you left out'. Partly because he kind of insinuated in the beginning that he can't 'feel controlled' and he doesn't need a 'monitor' instead of a spouse. It's like he SAYS he doesn't want me to snoop and confront, but it's also like for us to get better and for him to let go of her I almost feel like he NEEDS me to say I snooped and confront him with every thing he said and did. Does that make ANY sense??
> 
> Does anyone else here have a spouse that left stuff out either on purpose or subconsciously ?
> Is that for 'discovery' and did it help the recovery to discuss it?


He's testing you by leaving the stuff for you to find,seeing if you will bring it up or he's just a plain ole ass-hole rubbing your nose in it. This is about what YOU need to heal on YOUR terms not his, you want to bring it up and talk about it, he better damn well be willing to do anything you ask with out question, show true remorse, to me him suggesting that he go see her and stating that he can go for two weeks or for good really shows he has no remorse, you could have said "Ok for good sounds good to me, I'll pack your crap and dont ever come back" and started packing his things, instead of threats show him you mean action by action not words!!! you mentioned he lost repsect for you, well he dosent have any for himself how is he going to have any for you.

No you didnt deserve this, its not pay back, no one does.
Stand up for yourself, no one but you is going to fight for you!!


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## dontknow2468

I was wondering what troll means? I've seen it a few times but couldn't see it in your glossary of common words and phrases....


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## Almostrecovered

that's an overall internet forum term

basically a poster who comes onto a message board with the sole intent to deceive, rouse up the other posters or make inane or stupid comments on purpose

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)


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## Ingalls

I WISH I would have stumbled across this the day I joined  I have been confused on a few posts-and likewise I could have made mine less lengthy!
thanks!


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## lordmayhem

bump


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## UpperSideOfDown

bump


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## Just Tired Of It All

Keeping exposure a secret. Yes, you read right. But we have had exposure targets say “ok, I will keep this a secret!!” And they never tell the WS they know. That defeats the entire purpose. If that person won’t help you by speaking to your WS, at least TELL the WS that person knows.


This part lost me, not sure what is meant by this.. and is there any examples of how to word messagess if sent by FB.....


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## code7600

Bump, and request. I've seen a list of the progression from
just friends, confiding, hiding, bad-mouthing spouse, etc until
a full-on EA/PA occurs. I just can't find it now. So, could
the author please post it here?
Tnx


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## Almostrecovered

believe it was f-102, I'll look for it


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## Almostrecovered

having a dilly of a time finding it, sent a PM to f-102


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## TheGoodFight

code7600 said:


> Bump, and request. I've seen a list of the progression from
> just friends, confiding, hiding, bad-mouthing spouse, etc until
> a full-on EA/PA occurs. I just can't find it now. So, could
> the author please post it here?
> Tnx





Almostrecovered said:


> believe it was f-102, I'll look for it





Almostrecovered said:


> having a dilly of a time finding it, sent a PM to f-102


Is this it? http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/41508-emotional-affairs-sob-story.html#post621722


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## Almostrecovered

thanks GF, will add it to post 3


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## code7600

Yep, that's it. Thanks GF and Almost. I also tried searching the fora, but didn't get a hit.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ing

Based on my experience with Exposure emails and an email intercept

There is a good chance that if the AP is married they will have access to the email of the BS because they are trusted. Bad.

They will also know of your existence, and probably your email address so i would suggest you limit the chance that a email is intercepted by:

Create a new gmail account with a sensible name but in no way related to your name.

Gmail rarely gets sent to spam so it will hit the inbox.

Use a matter of fact and non revealing subject line, avoid using your name or their name in the subject. Keep it simple and to the point.

Example:

1. Create a gmail account here 

_You are required to give a second email account to recover your gmail password do not make this an account that your DS has access to or they will be able to get into your account.
_

*Write your email.*


> Subject Line: Your life in Pictures


*Not..*



> Subject Line: Your wife is a cheating fck



Then use the template. Don't include your phone number..

Do Not be emotive, just the facts. Keep it short

*Send. *

Start using this account for everything. DO NOT tell your DS about it!


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## Almostrecovered

AllThePrettyHorses said:


> Guys, I am new to this, how do I mark this thread in a way that I can easily and frequently return to it?
> I will need the lingo and abbreviations list, but I loved the whole original post in general.


bookmark it in your browser, if that's an issue for privacy you can copy the link into a PM sent to yourself


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## Just Tired Of It All

Just Tired Of It All said:


> Keeping exposure a secret. Yes, you read right. But we have had exposure targets say “ok, I will keep this a secret!!” And they never tell the WS they know. That defeats the entire purpose. If that person won’t help you by speaking to your WS, at least TELL the WS that person knows.
> 
> 
> This part lost me, not sure what is meant by this.. and is there any examples of how to word messagess if sent by FB.....


UM.. did I miss the answer to this??

"Keeping exposure a secret" I thout we are suppose to expose the heck out it??????/


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## Ingalls

bump


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## lordmayhem

bump for the newbies.

I'm gonna take a break from the forum myself for a while for physical reasons. I hurt my elbow doing curls, even though I went lighter on the weights. Normally it heals up in a few days, but it just got worse over the past few weeks. The doctor said I was aggravating this injury by typing on the computer, and yes, it hurts while typing this. So I'm going to have to go light on typing till its healed.


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## pidge70

Take care of yourself LM!


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## Almostrecovered

lordmayhem said:


> I hurt my elbow doing curls


I thought you were a policeman, not a hair stylist


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## AngryandUsed

Lord Mayhem, wish you come back soon...


----------



## Beowulf

I'm posting this because I think WW need to have access to this. If its been posted before let me know and I can delete it.

Findingmyway was a player, I don't know if he comes on here much now, but he did leave a point of view thread although I can't find it. He posted something similar to me, here it is.:
***********************************************

My perspective- as a serial cheat. Before I start, I'm no GQ model look alike and I'm not wealthy.

For me, it was always about extra sex. The thrill of the chase and ego boost was a plus, but I just wanted more sex than my wife did. I always loved my wife and certainly never ever wanted to leave her or lose her. Especially not over someone else's wayward wife.

I had a simple method. I used it because it worked. I targeted married women. I figured they were safer for several important reasons.
1- Less likely to be sleeping around with random guys (STDs).
2- Less likely to pull the crazy girlfriend BS and call my wife.
3- In case of an unwanted pregnancy, I had a built in schmuck to pay the tab and would have claimed to have had a vasectomy.

The most important part of being a player is to hide it. I started with shy looks making certain I'd get caught and then doing my best to look embarrassed. If she started to come around more or dress sexier then I'd try a safe compliment. If she called me on my BS (yes, it happened) I simply acted highly offended. After all, I'm a married family man. That usually got me an apology. A few really smart ones just avoided me altogether.

If she accepted the compliment, I knew I had a chance. I never ever wasted time with someone that I didn't want to bed. If the compliment was successful, I simply followed with more as time permitted and just let things develop. Who knew where it would go? When she would speak with me about her frustrations with her husband (they always complained about their husband) I used that to my advantage. If they complained that he didn't do enough with the kids, I was dad of the year. If he didn't help out around the house, I did everything at home so my wife didn't have to. Yes, it was complete BS, but so what. My job was to make them feel special, pretty and needed and to paint the fantasy. After all, my goal was not conversation or friendship. I wanted to score.

Once things progressed and I had to keep it intense unless it was simply a once and done kind of thing. I would do that by pushing her boundaries for sex. Anal, public hook-up whatever. Keep in mind, I'm in it for the sex so I tried for everything I liked and heard more than once statements like... I never even let my husband do that. That was usually with anal, but sometimes public hook-ups also.

I certainly didn't want to be paying for hotel rooms out my pocket. If she wanted to pay, that was fine. Otherwise, we could hook-up anywhere, it didn't matter to me.

I always advised them to keep the secret between us, because it was so special. Actually, I didn't want to get busted. If they got busted, and some did. That was their tough crap to deal with. I certainly never vowed to love/honor/cherish them.

As I look back, I'm stunned at how easy it was and how many fell for my crap. I had some that would try to pull away and I'd feed them the star crossed lovers BS, you know... kept apart by the cruel hand of fate. That worked like magic to seal the deal. I also used things like I think my wife may have cheated on me. Then I'd work in how I got tested for STDs and it was clear and somehow manage to mention my vasectomy (never had one). Understand? I'm safe, you won't catch anything if you sleep with me and I won't get you pregnant. That was the message.

The one thing that sent me running was the fear of getting caught and sometimes I just wanted a quick bang and wasn't in it for a couple of months of an affair. I'm still also amazed by how many didn't see through my crap either. They didn't have to deal with the day to day stresses that adults face with me (finances, mortgages, car payments, child care, time commitments, etc.). With me, it was just fun and sex. The poor bastard at home didn't have a chance once the play was in motion. It also helped me to see him as a douche-bag when his wife whined about him for whatever reason.

I work with a woman that has lost everything over an affair with me. The house, husband, family, etc. It's difficult to see. She hates me now, but I never vowed anything to her or forced her to do anything. That's her tough crap. Her kids are in therapy, their grades tanked and she's struggling financially and the kids blame her, etc. Honestly, I wish she'd quit so I didn't have to see her every freaking day.


I do know a few like me that I consider even worse. They brag and laugh about getting wayward wives to do things and try to get email or text proof to show off. It's pretty easy, just tell her how much he liked doing X with her last night and let her respond. Then they had proof to brag about and trade notes. I didn't do that. I just wanted the sex and avoided the women they talked about. I liked to find the ones who would seem to be the last to ever do anything like this. Goes back to my 3 reasons.

I never flirted with a married woman unless I wanted in her pants. Plain and simple, you do have to hide it so they don't see it coming, but it's really that basic. Other players use different methods, but we all use what works and modify sometimes if we're not progressing to try a different angle. Not all women are the same, and sometimes deviations are required if she'll let you in her pants.

It was never about love, just sex. I sold the fantasy, yes. But that is all it ever was. A fair trade. They were adults and quite frankly should have known better. Am I a predator, I certainly never thought so and I certainly never thought about what would happen to them when we were done. Yes, all my affairs ended. Most stayed married to their H they *****ed about and screwed around on. Therefore, he must not have been that bad. People just get caught up with unrealistic expectations on life I think. For goodness sake, Prince charming is only charming because he wants a blow job.

Before I close, I'll say this as well. An engaged woman would have worked for me also, but I never found one that would go for me. Also, newly married women are much harder to get. I had the best luck with women who had been married for at least several years, throw a kid or two in the mix and they were usually more susceptible to being chased.

It was a fair trade. Attention and compliments for sex.
findingmyway is offline Forward Message


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## lordmayhem

findingmyway provided unique insight into the mind of an OM. Its simply amazing how many women are easily played when you use the emotional angle. Just like a fisherman, he casts out his line and gets plenty of bites.

Seeing all the evidence, my fWWs OM, who happened to be her ex hs bf, played the same angle. I saw just how rapidly it progressed, in a matter of days, I was the evil douche bag husband, he was in her heart forever, how life is cruel, and that he's the love of her life. 

Can it really be that simple? From everything I've seen, yes it is.


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## LovesHerMan

That was an amazing post indeed. I remember that some blasted him for his honesty, but how often do you get a glimpse into the machinations of a predator? Unfortunately I don't think that many WS's will read it and realize what is happening. Everyone thinks that they are the exception to the rule.


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## Morrigan

I'm out of it now of course but I find that post interesting and sick. But I'd rather know than not know.


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## lordmayhem

bump for this weekend.


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## Ingalls

bump bump bump


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## Hope1964

Is there a link in here anywhere for the 180? I looked but I can't find it, and I always have trouble finding it.


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## TorontoBoyWest

This needs a sticky.

Like yesterday.


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## X-unknown

So true! It sure adds up (now) 

My experience was similar but didn't hit all the points. I think the main ones for me were....

Big Warning #1 Your wife goes from being crazy about you and loving all your quirks to being angry (24:7) and having problems with everything you do. 

Big Warning #2 Your sex life goes into the tank. And if your a dumb ass like me you figure the problem must be about yourself and spend a lot of emotion and energy on fixing yourself and your "flaws." Women really do need to be emotionally connected and when they are connected emotionally the other man they become un-connected with you.

Big Warning #3 She suddenly starts to avoid any contact with your family. And a good check is to look at her if you somehow do get her to your parents etc. Uncomfortable to say the least.

Medium big warning - She wants to know where you are at all times. When do you work etc? *And never gives you any reasonable reason for asking.

I made the depressing mistake of doing a google search on the topic of women who cheat and found this "gem"
How to Not Get Caught Cheating on Your Significant Other

I don't know if my wife read this but I found it interesting (And depressing) that she followed most of these "Rules" and the ones that she didn't were part of the reason she got caught. 

SIGH......


----------



## Regina007

I often read about gas lighting, blame shifting, etc. but I didn't find definitions in here as well as "scripts" & how to effectively deal with those unless I missed it somehow? I found some posters explaining those but not scripts or in-depth examples of those. 

In all, thank you for bumping these up and linking.  It's very helpful.


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## Almostrecovered

Didn't realize some terms are missing, will add when I get the chance


----------



## Ben Connedfussed

Thanks for this referrel page. It helps to get things in order, so to speak. I will keep in touch. I like that avatar pick with the metal there!


----------



## lovelygirl

why don't you ask a Mod to make this thread sticky?


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## Almostrecovered

asked and answered

the owner doesn't want an "official" stance or endorse particular posters views on infidelity


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## Almostrecovered

added gaslighting and blameshifting term definitions


----------



## SweaterSoup

Bump for the week. I just joined and keep having to spend time finding it. Very useful for helping me get situated on the site and for understanding what the heck is happening during this entire ordeal.


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## TorontoBoyWest

Sticky plox


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## alwaystrying123

I can not thank you all enough...


----------



## SPRelationshipCounselling

*Telling Others about Your Partner's Affair*

Ouch ! regarding exposure advice.
If /When you discover your partner is having an affair. It's a shock. You are in shock.Emotions flood or you numb out. It's worth taking some time and getting support before making any big decisions.
Telling people around you that your partner is having an affair is a big decision . It's worth considering the consequences. I work with a lot of couples after an affair. The Betrayed Spouses who did tell everyone, tend to wish they haddn't.


----------



## Almostrecovered

SPRelationshipCounselling said:


> Ouch ! regarding exposure advice.
> If /When you discover your partner is having an affair. It's a shock. You are in shock.Emotions flood or you numb out. It's worth taking some time and getting support before making any big decisions.
> Telling people around you that your partner is having an affair is a big decision . It's worth considering the consequences. I work with a lot of couples after an affair. The Betrayed Spouses who did tell everyone, tend to wish they haddn't.


exposure advice is for those who are trying to destroy/disrupt an affair as you can't even fruitfully get to that counseling stage in the first place until the affair is over and the spouse comes out of the fog

personally I didn't have to expose (excepting the OMW, which I think always deserves to know), I am one of the lucky few 

while I don't think you should jump right to exposure in most cases, I do think in most cases of exposure on this board, it was evident that it needed to come out to bring the affair to light


----------



## Socodi

I just wanted to say that I found this forum more by luck than anything else, and it has quite honestly saved my marriage. I was in utter despair when I found my husband of 39 years , who I honestly thought was my soulmate had been cheating on me for almost a year. I read this forum for newbies and it could honestly been written for us!!! He was most definitely in a 'Fog' that nothing it seems could get him out of. He was prepared to give up EVERYTHING and EVERYONE for HER. It took a devastating turn of events to 'snap' him out of it. He left his mobile phone connected to his handsfree in his car by mistake , and I picked up.... heard them have sex in the most graffic detail whilst in the back of our car!!! Suddenly he could not lie or talk his way out of this one , and finally had to own up to me what he had been doing. The 'fog' lifted and he realised what a complete Bastard he had been to me , and is so full of remorse and disgust at what he has put me through. It is early days , but we have read through this thread together, talked , cried [lots] and are now in counselling. The advise given on here is spot on, and I read and re-read it to help me through difficult times


----------



## Eli-Zor

Below are posts between waywards on a pro affair site. These waywards are actively involved in affairs , one had a D day and simply took it underground before her husband caught her again:

I have taken select extracts to highlight to *you the BS* spouses why you should pay close attention to, LISTEN to our advice and take harsh tough steps to protect you, your marriage and your family. 

Those in affairs have little to no concern for the damage and hurt they are doing to their spouse and family.

They lie, deny, gaslight, cheat and practice every act of deception they can to protect their affair and to undermine their spouses. 




> Almost a year after my first Dday my H caught me again. Apparently he's been recording me at home and who knows where else and got a conversation between me and MM. I had no idea he has been suspicious and obviously wasn't being careful enough but WTF!!! I told my H that it isn't physical but that we have been talking lately. I am going to DENY DENY DENY any sort of physical relationship. No matter what. My H is livid right now but because we are very busy and consumed with work we've decided to put this discussion on hold for a week or two. He has actually physically threatened my MM but I think he is just mad and I don't think there's any real truth in them. At this point out marriage is completely up in the air and I don't know where we will go from here.
> 
> 
> My first dday was my fault. One of our meetings at a hotel room my MM was running late so I paid. On my credit card. STUPID. well long story short.. my H saw it on my bank statement. All hell broke loose of course. I have been sooooooo careful since. But never woulda thought he would record me. Still in shock





> My BF is technologically savvy and clearly could set up any and all of these devices.
> 
> But you know what? If he did, I'd leave him in a second. I know that sounds crazy, but that is such an invasion of my privacy. It's one thing to read my emails or text that is sitting right there, but voice and video recording? That's so crazy and gross, I'd be gone.
> 
> If you are that f*****g suspicious, how about talking to your partner first. If communication is that crappy, that's probably why your partner is stepping out in the first place.







> I totally agree with you XXXX.... I was horrified when my H told me he recorded me. I told him he absolutely invaded my privacy..IN MY OWN HOME. I feel completely uncomfortable now at home. It makes me so mad. Sometimes I even think about leaving him just because of it. But again.. my daughter






> If you are that f****g suspicious, how about talking to your partner first.
> 
> _As if the cheating partner would tell the truth_ .



They are shocked that they can be spied on , seem to think that their right to privacy to continue the affair outweighs their abuse of the love and trust of their spouses and the love of their family. To top it all its all their BS fault. 

They conveniently forget 50% of the marriage problems are theirs
100% of the affair and the degradation of the marriage relationship due to the affair is theirs.


Important Tools for BS:

VARs, keyloggers , apps to monitor smart phones , a clear head and your fear of losing your marriage , use this fear to take the steps to shine a spot light on the affair


----------



## Verushkita

silly question...what does IC stand for? i know MC is marriage counseling right? i'm racking my brain trying to figure IC out - it's the I part i'm getting hung up on.


----------



## Almostrecovered

individual counseling


----------



## Verushkita

Almostrecovered said:


> individual counseling


:....totally makes sense.


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## Almostrecovered

imagine my disappointment when I figured it out and realized that people weren't telling me to go get some ice cream


----------



## X-unknown

Eli-Zor said:


> Below are posts between waywards on a pro affair site. These waywards are actively involved in affairs , one had a D day and simply took it underground before her husband caught her again:
> 
> I have taken select extracts to highlight to *you the BS* spouses why you should pay close attention to, LISTEN to our advice and take harsh tough steps to protect you, your marriage and your family.
> 
> Those in affairs have little to no concern for the damage and hurt they are doing to their spouse and family.
> 
> They lie, deny, gaslight, cheat and practice every act of deception they can to protect their affair and to undermine their spouses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are shocked that they can be spied on , seem to think that their right to privacy to continue the affair outweighs their abuse of the love and trust of their spouses and the love of their family. To top it all its all their BS fault.
> 
> They conveniently forget 50% of the marriage problems are theirs
> 100% of the affair and the degradation of the marriage relationship due to the affair is theirs.
> 
> 
> Important Tools for BS:
> 
> VARs, keyloggers , apps to monitor smart phones , a clear head and your fear of losing your marriage , use this fear to take the steps to shine a spot light on the affair


The snippit from the women who said she was going to be more careful with her affair triggered a conversation I had with my tdoc. Her point was that now I (we all) are stuck with this mistrust. We know they have cheated and now that they know (We know) they can take things underground *Buy a tracphone for example to avoid smartphone apps or at least not have a bill you can monitor. They can make it a rule to talk when they are outside the house / car or (ugh) at a hotel. You can hire someone to follow them I suppose but at some point it comes down to asking yourself if you want to stay in a relationship where you don't have trust. Can you ever trust again and if so how? The how part is very difficult. I'm still wondering how anyone does it. Is it time heals all wounds? Is it some conversation or therapy that does the trick? 

The point that was made to me was simply this. You can follow her. You can bug her phone. You can do whatever but she (or he) can continue to do this. You can't control her but you can decide to leave or decide to work on it. I do agree about the spotlight on the affair. In my case its having a lot of couples therapy devoted to that topic. Maybe my wife can go to couples and lie to my (our) faces? I think when we get to that point I'm out of here.

I started looking at all the people I know who were the "other women" or other man in second marriages. I added several couples that I know had affairs and broke up. Its a hell of a lot of people. I think the people selling divorce or depression meds and therapy are going to be making a lot of money.

I think we live in a very screwed up society.


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## lordmayhem

Been almost 2 weeks since this was bumped.

Bump!


----------



## ohsoalone

what the heck is bump about?


----------



## TBT

ohsoalone said:


> what the heck is bump about?


You bump the thread up higher on the list ,so it is noticed.Lots of important info and insight on this thread.


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## Rasbuten66

Thank you! This is very helpful.


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## Almostrecovered

youre very welcome


----------



## fls22

Please, where is the Template letter posted below that's mentioned above?????


----------



## lordmayhem

I'll just repost what I posted on another thread with a few additions:


Have a VAR on you at all times, if you can, at least have a witness with you when you go home. Even better would be to have a VAR on you and have a witness. 
If she threatens you that she will call the cops on you, tell her calmly that you will have her charged with false reporting if she tries to lie to them about threatening her or hitting her. Hand her the phone and/or let her call if she wants to.
If she still ends up calling the cops....*keep your cool!* Do not raise your voice. Do not throw things around or mess up the house. You won't see them drive up because they will park the cruiser a couple of houses down the street. They WILL listen first before knocking. This is standard procedure. So it would NOT be a good idea to be yelling before they knock on the door.
When they knock on the door or ring the doorbell, *YOU* be the one to answer the door. In a *calm voice* greet the officer and ask what the problem is. I guarantee you that the cops are on alert and will be looking for a possible fight from you because domestic violence calls are one of the most dangerous calls, and many cops have been killed going into these situations. With you answering the door with a smile and a calm voice, it WILL immediately lower the tension and they will be more likely to listen to you. 
This is usually a 2 officer call, and one of them will be interviewing you and the other will be interviewing your wife, but you will be in the same room so they can watch each others backs. When you answer the door, DO NOT have anything in your hands, even the VAR. They will be watching your hands. Keep them in the open where they can see them. Do not put your hands in your pocket. If one officer is sent, do not be surprised or argue if they temporarily place you in handcuffs, this is for officer safety, because they don’t know if you’re violent or not. Once you show you are calm, non violent, and most importantly, not a threat, then they will likely remove the handcuffs. 
If she lies to the other officer and attempts to provoke you in front of them. *DO NOT*, I repeat *DO NOT respond*. Remain calm!!! The very worst thing you can do is get into a shouting match with her while they are present. Tell the officer calmly that you have a VAR and you can play it for him and ask him/her if you can get it out of your pocket or where ever you have it. Then play it to them to expose her lies. 

If you start arguing with the cops or with your WW and raising your voice, moving around, getting defensive, you are raising the tension and looking like the primary aggressor and a threat. Then they will put you in cuffs. And of course during this time the WW will be crying and putting on a show.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Bump for the weekend
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem

bump again.

CWI is so busy nowadays, this thread gets buried very quickly.


----------



## somethingelse

I'm keeping this


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## Almostrecovered

IT'S MINE!!


okay you can have it


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## Readytogo

Thank you for this! Just found it and read it. Good info. There's a lot to take in. VERY helpful in so many ways!


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## SomedayDig

What's this thread about?


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## lordmayhem

SomedayDig said:


> What's this thread about?


For the newly betrayed coming to the forum. Contains the common acronyms used, terms, definitions, what to do, etc.


----------



## SomedayDig

LOL...I was trying to be coy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ikaika

lordmayhem said:


> For the newly betrayed coming to the forum. Contains the common acronyms used, terms, definitions, what to do, etc.


you seem to be the keeper of acronyms... would like to add one with definition

HF - Honest Friends/Family members: these are ones that will tell you what you need to know not what you want to hear. 

Years back... I was a WS, no excuses and now I realize how vigilant I need to be about my own feelings. It was HF (married couple themselves) who got a hold of my very quickly and even before the TAM posted NC letter they had me do that very thing. To this day they contact me once a week to lovingly hold me accountable. Now I don't have any psychological issues but needless to say I appreciate their concern and so does my wife. Married - will be 18 years this coming Christmas Eve, yes we (my wife and I) are Mr. and Mrs Clause 

BTW, I this is not denial: there was no actual EA or PA, it was near disaster and my wife (the most wonderful woman in the world) and we (including myself think of it as it is - infidelity). I could have used all kinds of excuses for my actions, my friends would have nothing to do with it... bravo for Honest Friends (HF). She had turned cold toward me... long story short, it turned out she actually had a treatable medical condition. She was hurt by unfaithful actions (rightfully so), and to this day I make her the queen of our household. She, my wife, is a gem that I was fortunate to have among all the lousy hay out there.

HF do exist... I am a living testament to it.


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## lordmayhem

Hasn't been bumped in a while.


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## Tweak

Voting for Sticky. Useful info should not be buried. Had to do a search on site to even find what some of these new abbriv. stood for. :scratchhead:

A yeah Bump


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## TBT

Bump for newbie


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## SomedayDig

Cough, cough, bump.


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## Hope1964

With AR gone   , I am adding the link to this in my sig.


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## Hope1964

Bump again.


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## totallyunexpected

All newbies need to see this thread. How can this be made to be at the top of the forum? It needs a sticky! I'm new to this place and I'm just lucky that someone provided the link for me on another post. Very insightful and covers all the patterns of behavior!


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## Sestina

totallyunexpected said:


> All newbies need to see this thread. How can this be made to be at the top of the forum? It needs a sticky! I'm new to this place and I'm just lucky that someone provided the link for me on another post. Very insightful and covers all the patterns of behavior!


Maybe someone should contact a mod and request a sticky. That's usually how it works, no?


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## Chaparral

Bump


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## steve_m

Wow this was posted in another thread. Glad they linked it.


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## twoforwardoneback

Just knowing that all this crazy crap that is going on in my life has a name helps..!


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## Skrya

I thank you sooo much for this post. THIS should be one of the first things a Hurt by betrayal spouse reads. Thank You !!


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## Hope1964

I agree. That's why several of us link it in our signatures. It's invaluable.


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## Skrya

I believe I will do this also, I posted it on my fb as I am making of open and honest or nothing and I know it has helped me so much already. TOP NOTCH, this does help:iagree:


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## whatslovegottodowithit?

Thank You for your post! It's very informative and I agree...limbo can be hell!


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## lordmayhem

bump


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## J4A6

bump


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## Hope1964

bump!!


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## josepe

thanks for the info on the abbvs. i was a little lost when trying to figure out what some one was saying ,,, now i know what they were saying.:smthumbup:


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## SomedayDig

Who doin dat bump?


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## Eli-Zor

Bump
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrQuatto

Bump


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## MrQuatto

Bump


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## mablenc

Bumping and adding,

Just an FYI

if you are in the US and going through the awful anxiety and depression, please see your doctor and ask if they can excuse you from work. If you have worked for a company of 50 or more employes and have been working for over a year you can apply for FMLA which protects you from being fired for absences due to medical reasons for up to 12 weeks. If you have short term disbabity apply for that too, this will continue your pay

Sever depression and anxiety is very common with BS. It is not uncommon to lose lots of weight and not be able o sleep in days. Most people can't function like this let alone work. This qualifies as a medical/mental condition and should be handled privately by your employer.

Also, please check with your employer if they have an employee assistance program. You can get free counseling, attorney services at a discount and many more things.


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## Eli-Zor

Bump
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem

Its been a couple of weeks.


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## SomedayDig

Re-bump to add....

If you've been screwed over and would enjoy a little bit of evening up the score - go learn about Cheaterville . com


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## Maricha75

There ya go, Dig. Since lordmayhem suggested it, I did it for you.



SomedayDig said:


> So, you got cheated on. Doesn't that f'ng suck moose balls? Seriously. This crap hurts to the core and no one who's never experienced it will understand what you're feeling right now. It's not to say they can't offer you a shoulder to cry on or words of comfort, but they just don't know how badly you really hurt.
> 
> Well, you're here now aren't ya? So, while you're here why don't ya grab a soda or wine or bourbon (that's my personal fave) and read for a minute.
> 
> First ~ you are gonna be pissed!! Yeah, man. Pissed. As in what in the hell is going on and why did my spouse/partner do this? I've given so much and they took everything I gave for granted and sh-t all over it. If I were less civilized I would lash out with a fist to their face! Yeah...even as the man I honestly thought about punching my wife in the f'ng face once. I didn't though, because violence ain't cool. It won't solve a damn thing. Even if you're the woman and you wanna slap him so damn hard...it ain't worth it in the end. Even if you decide to divorce, it ain't worth it. Spend that energy on yourself and get into the gym or go walk/jog/run a few miles. I promise you'll feel oodles better.
> 
> Next ~ what do ya do with ALL of this agony?! Good God you don't know where your brain and heart are cuz they seem to be miles apart in one tiny, barely functioning body. Well my brothers and sisters...again, you ain't alone. What you do with the agony is totally up to you. I can tell you what I did with mine and other people will tell you what they did with theirs. Mine...I spent $75 on a 100 pound heavy bag and another $20 on a good pair of gel knuckled gloves like they use in MMA. I beat the ever living sh-t outta that bag every day. Sometimes multiple times a day. Something had to take my agony in a positive way. It wore me out. I screamed, cried and even kicked at the f'ng thing. I elbowed it and made it my goal to break it and watch the sand pour out onto my garage floor. It never happened, but I sure enjoyed trying. It was constructive.
> 
> Mind movies. The very first post I ever made on a forum was over at Loveshack about mind movies. Yeah, don't go there. They ban betrayed spouses too quickly for the pain they're in. They cater more to the wayward spouses. Anywho, mind movies suck ass. Seriously. I would be driving in my car or riding on my motorcycle and all of a sudden a vision of my wife and the xOM would flip on in my grey matter and they are doing all kinds of crazy sh-t. How I never got into a wreck is beyond me. So, what can ya do about the mind movies. Well, ya can't really do anything about them. What you do when they happen...ohhh, yeah ~ you CAN control that. I did two things. First, I had a rubber band around my wrist that I would snap...kinda like when trying to quit tobacco. I'd get a mind movie and SNAP. I'd do it hard, too. No pansy or candy ass effort here. Make it hurt. Snap yourself back cuz your imagination is probably a whole helluva lot worse than the reality. The other thing I would do, is simply let the movie play out. It wasn't a feature flick or an Lord of the Rings trilogy epic. It would last maybe 10 seconds. Then, I'd take a deep breath and center myself. Yeah...Zen sh-t. It works. I'd talk myself down from there and move on with my life whatever I was doing.
> 
> Divorce. Yep. Sometimes that is the ONLY way that you are going to free yourself from the pain and agony of infidelity. It's just that simple. If an affair is a deal breaker for you, then that is that. Feel free to file and move on with improving your life from someone's selfish ego feed! Just remember, in everything that you do, don't ever make a rash decision on a life changing deal.
> 
> Reconciliation. Sometimes people want to reconcile. They want to try to repair the marriage. If that is you, just know one thing: It is harder than you f'ng think. If you rug sweep this sh-t, you will only come back to TAM inside of a year and post how you were in false reconciliation. The wayward spouse has EVERYTHING on their shoulders at this point. I'm not saying you get to treat them like a sack of sh-t. What I'm saying is that they need to understand the gift that has been given to them and act accordingly. Trust me. When it comes to an affair, and I don't care if it's an EA, PA, ONS, LTA or whatever cool initials there are - you WILL know if reconciliation is gonna work within a day or two...maybe even an hour or two! You will sense it. Use your gut. It is almost NEVER wrong.
> 
> Above all...post your story here in ONE thread. Don't create multiple threads cuz that just dilutes your story. READ everyone's comments and don't get scared or pissed off if you don't agree 100% with a poster. A lot of newbs here claim that betrayed spouses are bitter toward them and throw out their anger in projection. It happens. But it happens a lot less than is believed. If you see it, use the REPORT button if it's that bad. Otherwise, just ignore the comment and move on. Flame wars are always a lose/lose situation.
> 
> Whether you choose to Divorce or Reconcile, understand that you will probably need at least 2 years to heal. Yeah, that's right - even with divorce and cutting the tumor from your life, you will endure the pain of betrayal. Don't kid yourself. You will still hurt and if you get into a relationship too quickly, you're only gonna sabotage it. Same with reconciliation. Don't think cuz you're hyper-bonding and banging like bunnies that everything is a-okay. Triggers will hit you whether you're alone, with your spouse or having sex with your spouse. That brings me to my final point...
> 
> Communication. You didn't have it before or during the affair otherwise your sorry butt wouldn't be here reading this thread. BOTH of you need to have 100% OPEN & HONEST communication. That means you talk about everything. EVER-Y-THING in an adult, open way. Divorce or Reconciliation it doesn't matter. You need to be honest with each other. You will never heal without it.
> 
> Again, it sucks that you're here. I'm sorry you're here. I'm sorry I'M here. I hate this place. It gives me comfort.


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## lordmayhem

bump


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## SomedayDig

Bazinga!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SomedayDig

Hai
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope1964

SomedayDig said:


> Hai
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


ku


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## lordmayhem

Here is an example of Trickle Truth right here in this very forum.



helpme84 said:


> *I swear there was nothing physical about this at all. It was just an emotional attachment.* We told each other that we liked each other, but I was married. I couldn't help the way I started to feel. He gave me attention that I needed so badly. I feel bad every day for what I put my husband through but *there was absolutely zero physical contact*.





helpme84 said:


> *I am being 100% honest with everyone here, there was zero physical action at all* and maybe I was simple minded but I really thought he was just being a good friend by going to get the bumper. I told him I would be willing to go back to marriage counseling as well, we have been there before but I felt like they were teaming up against me.


Then....



helpme84 said:


> I even did the right thing today and tried to come 100% clean with my husband since he was really prying about why I won't give him oral. I told him that *I gave the other guy oral sex 1 time, JUST ONCE* and I was drunk. I was out with a bunch of friends and he was there with some of his friends. *He came in my mouth* even though I told him not to and it's made it really uncomfortable for me. I told him all of this and that I felt horrible afterwards but apparently the truth wasn't good enough. I was hoping that we could still go to counseling but he went off the deep end and left after that.


Who knows how far the affair really went and if its really over at all.


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## Chaparral

Bump


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## Hope1964

Bump


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## freshstart08

Almostrecovered... I am new to TAM and I was wanting to join a group that you admin and it says to pm you to request to join but it won't let me message you


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## Hope1964

BUMP

I wish they'd sticky this thread.


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## Hope1964

Sigh - I wish we could sticky this.


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## Eli-Zor

bump


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## Mrs_Mathias

Bumping for others to find.


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## Eli-Zor

Bump


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## RandomDude

Can we please have this stickied? Personally I feel this is the most helpful possible first thread on the CWI section not to mention the invaluable stickies the OP has already mentioned.

Dvl's thread on the men's clubhouse was stickied and it was a poll!
So why not this one?


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## anchorwatch

Bumping


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## Daisy10

This should be sticked.


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## alibaba70

Bump bump


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## WayUpNorth

Wish I could have read all this 12 years ago when my ex was banging her boss.


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## TBT

bump


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## anchorwatch

Bump


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## anchorwatch

Again


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## Hope1964

BUMP

I REALLY wish this could be stickied.


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## Ceegee

Bumpity bump.


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## TwinsDad

I think I'm one of the people that AlmostRecovered is talking about with this sticky. Joined and posted for advice back in 2010, followed up in mid 2011. Got spot on advice from folks like lordmayhem, Eli-Zor, and Pit-of-my-stomach. Then dropped off the forums. It's been a long, painful road for me and my children. Had I been able to hear and taken more of the advice offered to me back then, it might have been shortened a bit.

Just wanted to post this thank you to those that gave me supportive and productive replies to my requests for help back then and an apology for not maintaining contact. I hope I can be of some help to others now that I am an experienced, reformed chump, and proud soon-to-be single dad.


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## Eli-Zor

bump


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## vandal_xx

This life we all lead is crazy. So much pain in this world. Glad to see people get over this stuff and move on. Though I am far from over it, i am not dead so I will be stronger. Thanks to you guys for showing me that I can and will be better...at some point


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## Hope1964

bump


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## Regret214

Bump
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope1964

bump


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## Almostrecovered

added weightlifter's evidence gathering advice to the first page


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## SamuraiJack

Bump


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## lordmayhem

This hasn't been bumped in a few months.


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## Almostrecovered

if only someone were to bump it


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## GusPolinski

Almostrecovered said:


> if only someone were to bump it


"Ah ooh bump it!

B-bump it real good!"


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## Blossom Leigh

GusPolinski said:


> "Ah ooh bump it!
> 
> B-bump it real good!"


:rofl:

my home girls!


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## Almostrecovered

GusPolinski said:


> "Ah ooh bump it!
> 
> B-bump it real good!"


I need to take a shower now


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## Amplexor

Almostrecovered said:


> if only someone were to bump it


Thanks, I'm a nube!


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## anchorwatch

bump


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## Foolish Man

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> It might also bear mentioning that the saying about people lying not looking you in the eyes, is actually completely false in the case of WS's. You will find that *they go out of the way to look you dead in the eyes while lying to you*.


A bump with a quote proven true in my personal experience. That dead in the eyes with wide direct look, while flat out lying.


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## Chaparral

Bump


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## Ceegee

Bump.


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## lordmayhem

bump


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## Ceegee

Been a couple of months...


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## Ceegee

The more I go back and reader older threads here in CWI the more I'm convinced this thread needs to be bumped daily. 

Newbies come here, read a little, then post their own situation. Once started, they get too consumed with their own thread to venture far down enough to find this. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ceegee

Bump


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SouthGaDippin

New here, Bump


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## anchorwatch

Bump


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## Hope1964

Bumping this thread because it hasn't been bumped in a while


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## Ceegee

How many bumps = sticky?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rockon

Wish the bouncing turtle would stop in for a visit.


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## Hope1964

Ceegee said:


> How many bumps = sticky?


I know, right?


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## Ceegee

Maybe too controversial. Some here don't believe this stuff. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Hope1964

Ceegee said:


> Maybe too controversial. Some here don't believe this stuff.


There should be a disclaimer somewhere telling people that if they don't want to hear the truth they need to vacate the premises.


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## 225985

Zombie thread


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## Hope1964

blueinbr said:


> Zombie thread


No it's not!! Why do you think this is a zombie thread? It's been WAY less than a year since it was last bumped. This thread has been around forever and should continue to be bumped when it needs to be.


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## 3putt

Hope1964 said:


> No it's not!! Why do you think this is a zombie thread? It's been WAY less than a year since it was last bumped. This thread has been around forever and should continue to be bumped when it needs to be.


I think he meant that as a joke.


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## Hope1964

3putt said:


> I think he meant that as a joke.


I hope so - you never know with blue


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## Chaparral

Bump


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## anchorwatch

bump


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## rockon

Damn, got excited when I saw the bouncing turtle!


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