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## Icemann (Apr 7, 2021)

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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Wow! 

My husband and I love to travel! We would be on cloud 9 talking to the hostess! For 2 weeks? That's exactly what I need right this minute!!

You shouldn't agreed to go in the first place. No one likes the party pooper while traveling!!

You can't handle social interactions and now I'm sure you've spoiled their vacation.

Stay in your hotel alone. Let them know it's not them the problem, it's you that feels overwhelmed with all the social interaction going on. 

Tell them to have fun and enjoy their time.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

I think I might have done the same thing as you. Bold move just ditching them, taking a vacation from the vacation. 2 week vacation in a small B&B with people I need to entertain, no thanks. I do not think it was reasonable for your wife to expect you to deal with that for 2 weeks. A few days would be reasonable 2 weeks no very selfish of your wife IMO.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

OP, you're clearly more introverted than either your wife or this other couple.

I'm just wondering why you're so afraid of your wife and her threats that you agreed to something you clearly didn't want to do? And why she doesn't know, and respect, you well enough to not try and push you into this sort of thing in the first place?


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## Icemann (Apr 7, 2021)

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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

This was supposed to be your vacation too.

Obviously your wife has zero respect for you. It’s all about her and you don’t matter much.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Well, you did communicate your reluctance and she not only ignored you but proceeded to make the situation worse once you got there.

It is possible she is trying to change/shape you in a direction she thinks you need to grow in and may believe she is doing it for your own good.

Regardless of her motives, she treated you and your desires and needs second and third to others on your vacation and I wouldn't stand for it either.

Do you feel respected or loved by any of this?


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## Icemann (Apr 7, 2021)

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## Icemann (Apr 7, 2021)

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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Icemann said:


> She threatened divorce and even claimed she had an 'affair' arranged and would act on it.


Full stop.

Did she threaten infidelity for your reluctance to go with these people or was this another time?

Describe the situation she said that. Has she threatened infidelity on more than one occasion?

I personally would have kicked her skank ass onto the street with a $2 sign superglued to her butt.

She clearly has no class and serious problems.


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## Icemann (Apr 7, 2021)

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## Icemann (Apr 7, 2021)

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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Icemann said:


> YOUR sensibilities are fine for YOU. We are all different. I agree, I should not have given in and gone with them on my vacation. BTW I told them just that, it's not them, it's me. I love witty, clever interaction with intelligent, well educated people. In fact, that is why my wife wanted to marry me, because I make her and her friends laugh. You seem to be saying that any spouse, should be willing to have an intimate 2 week vacation with ANYONE, under any circumstances. Is that correct?


I'm super introvert. I love my time alone. I crave time alone.

My husband knows this and he RESPECTS this. If your wife is threatening divorce or an affair because you are being you, then you have a bigger problem in your marriage than this trip. 

I would love to have a 2 week vacation right now, but I won't drag my husband if he doesn't want to. I go back home for 1,2,3,4 weeks at a time, my husband can join me for a week and he can go back. No big deal. It's my vacation after all. He can plan his own vacations with his buddies. No big deal. This is because we have no issues going on. We have this freedom of traveling going on and it works for us. It's obvious you don't have the same point of view. 

I don't think the issue here is the trip. What else is going on in your relationship?


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## Icemann (Apr 7, 2021)

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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Icemann said:


> That is exactly what I want to know. When she gets angry, she says things I know she does not mean, but they still hurt. * She threatened divorce and even claimed she had an 'affair' arranged and would act on it.* I told her if she really felt that way the marriage was already over. Yes, like many people I am more introverted than others. I like to write, to learn, to explore new ideas. I take vacations alone and make new friends. I love it. I just don't like being controlled and being stuck with people who are more like clients than friends. (I had a successful 40 year professional career before retiring). I prefer having a few very close friends, to having many superficial ones.
> 
> In fairness to my wife, most of* my relatives and friends think she is a 'saint'* for putting up with me.  I agree. She is generous to fault. I love her. I never mind in the least when she goes out with friends. I just don't want them living with me.


well she’s no saint. And angry words or not, the underlined statement—— not even my ****ty ex would have thought of saying something that outrageous.
She had an affair set up? lol, I’d tend to want to help her continue that as a single woman.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Icemann said:


> The threat was when I said I was moving to another hotel. I knew, on some level, she didn't mean it, but....
> This is the first time in 20 years she ever made a threat like that. She was desperate to control me and lost her temper. I get it. We have 'fights' all the time and make up the next day. I'm afraid we both know we are stuck with each other and 99% of the time life is great with her. This is the first time in my life I've put a question like this to a marriage forum.


Threatening to have sex with another man, because she can't make you be around the people she wants on vacation, is pretty ill.

Unless you are living in a romantic comedy and she said it in a tone that couldn't be taken seriously.

I would have gone home and had papers drawn up, but then I don't really have a good sense of humor about threatening infidelity.

Did she say it in front of witnesses or just to you?


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## Icemann (Apr 7, 2021)

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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

I think when she set this up originally she knew she was going to invite her friends...at this point is when the negotiations should have commenced...you both should have figured out how the living arrangement, meals and entertainment would would work out, to ensure that your needs were met as much as her needs. and if anyone does any sudden changes to the set agreement without the other one knowing about it then that spouse has the right to do what you did. 

question what happen when you got back home?


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## Icemann (Apr 7, 2021)

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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Planning a whole vacation and ignoring input from you and expecting you to bow to her every wish and make her dream vacation yours as well is wrong, selfish, and ended in predictable disaster. It wouldn’t have been wrong until you voiced your opinion and was ignored.
Her not wanting done alone time just you and her is odd as well.


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## Icemann (Apr 7, 2021)

Lostinthought61 said:


> I think when she set this up originally she knew she was going to invite her friends...at this point is when the negotiations should have commenced...you both should have figured out how the living arrangement, meals and entertainment would would work out, to ensure that your needs were met as much as her needs. and if anyone does any sudden changes to the set agreement without the other one knowing about it then that spouse has the right to do what you did.
> 
> question what happen when you got back home?


Things are back to normal, except I feel emotionally estranged. Have to tell one more story. It's like an unending joke:
When we got off the plane, we were all exhausted and wanted to go straight home. My wife wanted to take her friends home. We live on the way to their house which is another 20 minutes away. She privately agreed to let me out first (She was driving) THEY flat out lied and claimed their place was on the way, and gave directions so I bowed out gracefully to avoid my wife's wrath. It was the final indignity.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Honestly, my spouse threatening divorce or infidelity to get their way in an argument would be a deal-breaker for me. I don't negotiate with terrorists. 

Yes, I would absolutely begin divorce proceedings over something like that. Really. The marriage might eventually be salvageable, but we'd be spending a lot of time in MC (and IC for my partner, to figure out why this seemed acceptable and learn better ways to handle themselves) and it would be a really long time before I was able to fully trust again.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Your wife acted like a spoiled brat.


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## Icemann (Apr 7, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> Planning a whole vacation and ignoring input from you and expecting you to bow to her every wish and make her dream vacation yours as well is wrong, selfish, and ended in predictable disaster. It wouldn’t have been wrong until you voiced your opinion and was ignored.
> Her not wanting done alone time just you and her is odd as well.


It's weird. Normally, at home, we each enjoy our separate times. We watch different movies and shows. We read. We get together and laugh and joke, but each of us enjoy our independence. I think part of this was because this friend of hers is a workplace friend who has done her favors. She has an unreasonable sense of obligation and loyalty to others. I tend to be just a tad misanthropic.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Your wife enjoys her friends more than you. Gotta work on that. I’m an introvert and feel your pain, but you gotta tell us some things you enjoy TOGETHER


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## Icemann (Apr 7, 2021)

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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Icemann said:


> It's weird. Normally, at home, we each enjoy our separate times. We watch different movies and shows. We read. We get together and laugh and joke, but each of us enjoy our independence. I think part of this was because this friend of hers is a workplace friend who has done her favors. *She has an unreasonable sense of obligation and loyalty to others. * I tend to be just a tad misanthropic.


Apparently she doesn’t have much sense of obligation or loyalty to YOU. This should be extremely disturbing to you. It’s not a joke and it’s not funny, you have a completely unbalanced and problematic relationship dynamic.

You keep insisting that she loves you and respects you, but her actions show the complete opposite. I would suggest you stop trying to talk yourself into what you want to be true and start objectively respecting the reality of what her actions are showing you.


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## Icemann (Apr 7, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> Your wife enjoys her friends more than you. Gotta work on that. I’m an introvert and feel your pain, but you gotta tell us some things you enjoy TOGETHER


We've had wonderful vacations together. We go camping with her sister and bro-in-law. We visit her kids. They visit us, along with her grand kids. We watch movies together. I cook for us. I don't even like to go to restaurants, but do sometimes when she wants to go with friends and relatives. I know I have my issues. I have pretty much ZERO patience. I know that is a form of arrogance. I am guilty guilty guilty. I enjoy her intelligent, knowledgeable friends and family. This couple is just rather cloddish, boring, and oblivious to their plentiful limitations. 

Her friend, once beautiful, has become so bloated she looks like Humpty Dumpty, her little eyes and nose almost lost in a vast expanse of white flesh that spreads her grin across the face as if to completely dissect it. My wife fears I will actually say something like that out loud.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Icemann said:


> Things are back to normal, except I feel emotionally estranged. Have to tell one more story. It's like an unending joke:
> When we got off the plane, we were all exhausted and wanted to go straight home. My wife wanted to take her friends home. We live on the way to their house which is another 20 minutes away. She privately agreed to let me out first (She was driving) THEY flat out lied and claimed their place was on the way, and gave directions so I bowed out gracefully to avoid my wife's wrath. It was the final indignity.


why did you not just go with your wife to drop them off. there was honestly no need to be dropped off first. next time why didn't they just leave their car at your place ?


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## Icemann (Apr 7, 2021)

ConanHub said:


> Threatening to have sex with another man, because she can't make you be around the people she wants on vacation, is pretty ill.
> 
> Unless you are living in a romantic comedy and she said it in a tone that couldn't be taken seriously.
> 
> ...


No, just to me. She said it with seething anger. We ARE living a 'romantic comedy.'  That is often how I feel. It's like my remarks are dialogue in a movie. We always make up. She now agrees this demand of hers was unreasonable, that it was "her fault." But nothing is always totally the other's fault. Truth is, I just wanted you all to tell me I'm not crazy for thinking she should have not made these demands, and that I should have stayed home.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Icemann said:


> Things are back to normal, except I feel emotionally estranged. Have to tell one more story. It's like an unending joke:
> When we got off the plane, we were all exhausted and wanted to go straight home. My wife wanted to take her friends home. We live on the way to their house which is another 20 minutes away. She privately agreed to let me out first (She was driving) THEY flat out lied and claimed their place was on the way, and gave directions so I bowed out gracefully to avoid my wife's wrath. It was the final indignity.


So why are you tolerating all of this? Are you just here looking for validation for your feelings and someone to commiserate with, or are you actually going to DO something to take control and improve your situation?


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## Icemann (Apr 7, 2021)

Lostinthought61 said:


> why did you not just go with your wife to drop them off. there was honestly no need to be dropped off first. next time why didn't they just leave their car at your place ?


EXACTLY what I said. No, we HAD to pick them up and take them to the airport and reverse the process on the way home. She is ALL about helping others, including me (except during this 'vacation'). Dropping me off would have been a 2 minute delay (I looked this up later and the map corresponded to the one is my head) Taking them home first saved them 2 minutes, cost me 20 minutes of non stop talking from these dolts whose voices are like nails on a blackboard as I tried to doze off.


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## Icemann (Apr 7, 2021)

DudeInProgress said:


> So why are you tolerating all of this? Are you just here looking for validation for your feelings and someone to commiserate with, or are you actually going to DO something to take control and improve your situation?


Honestly, I am just looking for validation.  sort of. Mostly, I just want her to be able to see things from an objective perspective. Obviously, at this point neither of us can be objective. I AM an arrogant prick who enjoys his own company. I do not like to be around controlling people. Her friend even offered me prescription opioids. She was being nice, since I have a bad back. But to me it was just another effort to control. Why is it so wrong to simply prefer some people to others?


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Icemann said:


> EXACTLY what I said. No, we HAD to pick them up and take them to the airport and reverse the process on the way home. She is ALL about helping others, including me (except during this 'vacation'). Dropping me off would have been a 2 minute delay (I looked this up later and the map corresponded to the one is my head) Taking them home first saved them 2 minutes, cost me 20 minutes of non stop talking from these dolts whose voices are like nails on a blackboard as I tried to doze off.


The problem isn’t that she didn’t want to drop you off, because honestly it would’ve been a little awkward and unnecessary to do so.

The problem is that she told you she would and then didn’t (she had no intention of actually dropping you off by the way), And through the deliberate delta between her words and actions, effectively said **** you.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Hell if my partner threatens divorce or an affair I would have papers served the vert next day. Your wife did both, in addition to breaking her promise to you that you won't have to deal with her friends everyday. 

No respect. You need to learn how to stand your ground.


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## Icemann (Apr 7, 2021)

I have to laugh at this, because no one who knows me would say I have any trouble "standing my ground." Just the reverse, usually. This incident was exceptional. I fell WELL BELOW my own expectations in finding a way to bow out gracefully and accept the consequences. I am certainly putting myself in the best light possible, because everyone, even my own family, loves my wife and happily takes her side. NO one who has met us feels sorry for me, ever... except for one close friend and even he made his remark with humor.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

OP, you seem to view your wife as some novel, precious, precocious creature to be indulged. To the point that you're actually just sort of laughing off what to many perfectly rational people would be a near-marriage-ending event.

Perhaps that's due to the age difference, which might be closer to 10 years or to 30 years depending on your actual ages.

There's an extremely common tendency for the older partner to eventually (or even right from the outset) view the younger (usually female) partner in a somewhat childlike manner. The parent-child dynamic leads to lots of spoiling and lots of bratty behavior. Which is often tolerated by the parent figure in an indulgent, and ultimately also somewhat dismissive, way. As one would view the antics of a spoiled pet or a cranky toddler that one just "can't" say no to.

I think what you're looking for here is some commiseration on a situation that some part of you is well aware you've helped to create, and have no real intention of actually doing anything about. Much as parents of bratty children may complain about their bratty kids but also continue enabling, even encouraging, that bratty behavior.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

That is SO MESSED UP that she threatened an affair if she didn't get her way. That would be the thing that would make me pull the plug. Be honest. How often does she do this?

The other major issue was you guys should have planned the vacation together - if you stay, next time decide in advance that you guys want to plan it together so it can be something you BOTH enjoy. If you are introverted (same) and she needs and craves company those are BOTH valid needs. So find a way you guys can feed both of those needs. For example, no B&Bs because there's forced contact and you can't escape at meals. If she HAS to have couples vacation, plan ahead of time people you both can tolerate and plan in some alone time in advance - let the other people know ahead of time "oh we're gonna go do XYZ together while we're there because we seriously need some couples time. Catch up with you at breakfast?" Book meals in advance and that way you have some meals where you KNOW you have time with just you and her. Make sure there's stuff you guys both like to do. Honestly, I have been on family vacations before and had a blast. But people you really, really don't like grate on your nerves after a while. I almost never travel with friends but you could for example plan a vacation where you include a visit or two with old friends?


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Icemann said:


> Honestly, I am just looking for validation.  sort of. Mostly, I just want her to be able to see things from an objective perspective. Obviously, at this point neither of us can be objective. I AM an arrogant prick who enjoys his own company. I do not like to be around controlling people. Her friend even offered me prescription opioids. She was being nice, since I have a bad back. But to me it was just another effort to control. Why is it so wrong to simply prefer some people to others?


Then your situation will never change and it will never improve. You can’t control how she sees things, and she is unlikely to see anything from an objective perspective. She doesn’t care about your perspective, her actions make that crystal clear.

She doesn’t respect you, her actions make that crystal clear. Her threats of adultery and/or divorce alone are clear disrespect (bordering on contempt in my opinion), and should be more than enough to drive a shock and awe response from you.

Yet you say nothing. And you do nothing. Which will only further embolden her and further degrade her respect for you. You say you’re an arrogant prick, yet you also say that you fear your wife’s wrath and allow her to manipulate you, control you and disrespect you. While repeatedly telling yourself that she really does love and respect you.

Stop worrying about your wife’s annoying friends trying to control you with painkillers, her annoying friends are not the problem.

your lack of leadership in this marriage, and your refusal to take any action for yourself is.


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## Icemann (Apr 7, 2021)

Rowan said:


> OP, you seem to view your wife as some novel, precious, precocious creature to be indulged. To the point that you're actually just sort of laughing off what to many perfectly rational people would be a near-marriage-ending event.
> 
> Perhaps that's due to the age difference - you would have been in your 50s and she in her 30s when you married 20 years ago.
> 
> ...


There is much truth in what you write. Yes, I want validation. I have written as much. I'm sorry you wrote this with a somewhat malicious tone, but that's YOUR issue.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

It seems........

Your wit and your intelligence, this personality of yours is not enough for your wife.

You bore her, in tight quarters.
She needs other people around to keep her happy.

You are on your third marriage, and are very self-centered.

This not meant to be a dig, though, I'm sure it sounds this way.

Your wife sounds determined to get her own way and is at her wits end (with you!).

Eh, she may soon be looking for #3, herself.


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## Icemann (Apr 7, 2021)

DudeInProgress said:


> Then your situation will never change and it will never improve. You can’t control how she sees things, and she is unlikely to see anything from an objective perspective. She doesn’t care about your perspective, her actions make that crystal clear.
> 
> She doesn’t respect you, her actions make that crystal clear. Her threats of adultery and/or divorce alone are clear disrespect (bordering on contempt in my opinion), and should be more than enough to drive a shock and awe response from you.
> 
> ...


I think it will be helpful for us to both take the Keirsoy-Bates personality inventory. Introduction | Debater (ENTP) Personality | 16Personalities I have taken this in the past and always come out as an ENTP or INTP, 'Debater' or 'Logician' (I spent 40 years as a trial lawyer, defending people against serious criminal charges and enjoyed it immensely). The book, and website, are designed to help people understand each other and each others' strengths and weaknesses. 
I'm sure I can work on being better at suffering fools gladly.


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## Icemann (Apr 7, 2021)

SunCMars said:


> It seems........
> 
> Your wit and your intelligence, this personality of yours is not enough for your wife.
> 
> ...


All true. I am very self centered. She wants to 'show me off.' As I said, she calls me her 'trophy husband.' This is ridiculous. At this point she can take me or leave me. Our next vacation will be planned privately. She will only know the dates. She can take it or not. In the meantime, I'm inviting my son to stay with us. He will drive us both crazy.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You may want her but you don’t need her.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Icemann said:


> There is much truth in what you write. Yes, I want validation. I have written as much. I'm sorry you wrote this with a somewhat malicious tone, but that's YOUR issue.


Really, he has an issue because he wasn’t being gentle enough with you?

Look you have an F’d up situation, which apparently you have no intention of fixing.

Here’s the thing, I can’t speak for everyone on this forum but many (if not most) are here to help people take control of bad relationship situations and fix or improve their situation. Most of us want to help people who want to help themselves, and not really interested in validating your victimhood, ego, or engaging in this mental masturbation.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Icemann said:


> I think it will be helpful for us to both take the Keirsoy-Bates personality inventory. Introduction | Debater (ENTP) Personality | 16Personalities I have taken this in the past and always come out as an ENTP or INTP, 'Debater' or 'Logician' (I spent 40 years as a trial lawyer, defending people against serious criminal charges and enjoyed it immensely). The book, and website, are designed to help people understand each other and each others' strengths and weaknesses.
> I'm sure I can work on being better at suffering fools gladly


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Just insist on having a few spouse only nights. I do that when I travel with friends. Everyone understands and is cool with that.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

sokillme said:


> Just insist on having a few spouse only nights. I do that when I travel with friends. Everyone understands and is cool with that.


Apparently not, because that was their agreement in the beginning which she deliberately and blatantly violated.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Icemann said:


> I think it will be helpful for us to both take the Keirsoy-Bates personality inventory. Introduction | Debater (ENTP) Personality | 16Personalities I have taken this in the past and always come out as an ENTP or INTP, 'Debater' or 'Logician' (I spent 40 years as a trial lawyer, defending people against serious criminal charges and enjoyed it immensely). The book, and website, are designed to help people understand each other and each others' strengths and weaknesses.
> I'm sure I can work on being better at suffering fools gladly


What in the hell are you talking about?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

A 70 year old guy who spent 40 years as a criminal defense attorney needs validation from a bunch of strangers that his wife is a conniving, selfish and immature people pleaser? OK. How many of your clients wound up in the pen?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Icemann said:


> [this is long, you can skip to the end for my question]
> 
> I love my wife. She is the most generous person I know. We've been together for 20 years. It's her 2d marriage, my third. We are still physically attracted to each other.
> 
> ...


I feel for you. As an introvert I/we take holidays to get away from people, to have time just for the two of us, and to relax. Going with friends for us would be anything but a relaxing holiday and would be emotionally exhausting and I think you are the same. This couple dont even sound as if they are your friends, you dont get on and have nothing in common. 

The only compromise I can think of is to have one week with them and then a week just for the two of you. 

Some people, the more extrovert among us ,would find a holiday alone boring and tiring, they get their strength from being with others, we are not like that, we get our strength from being alone and enjoying the peace and quiet.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

I'm sorry but that is intrusive on "alone time". What, pray tell, was your wife's motivation in inviting "friends". My wife pulled that on me exactly once. I told her that if that were her plans, she was welcome to go away with these friends and I would entertain myself while they were gone. She was caught short. I told her I tolerate these people in small increments. An evening or meal is ideal, but two damn weeks? I said, when we vacation, it is to get away from stuff: Kids, inlaws, work, and our circle of friends. Sorry, but wanting time alone with my wife is why I vacation. If my vacation is to be wasted with acquaintances sucking up the oxygen in the room, then I would rather stay home and continue working until my time is my own. My wife called them. We lost friends that day. I said that she was the responsible party, as she should have checked with me before making plans. Paying $5K to NOT enjoy myself? No f'ing way. From that point onward, vacation plans were made jointly.

That little remark about having an affair all set up would not be well received. In fact, I would say that since you seem to wish to piss away a decent marriage, please, by all means, go with it. I will be happy to recount this to a court of law. Your children will be so proud. If you wish to end our marriage for the sake of acquaintances, then obviously I have chosen the wrong wife. See you in court.


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## Icemann (Apr 7, 2021)

Look you have an F’d up situation, which apparently you have no intention of fixing.

Here’s the thing, I can’t speak for everyone on this forum but many (if not most) are here to help people take control of bad relationship situations and fix or improve their situation. Most of us want to help people who want to help themselves, and not really interested in validating your victimhood, ego, or engaging in this mental masturbation.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, 'Dude,' you really sound helpful.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@Icemann Your wife has an affair partner already lined up?


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## Icemann (Apr 7, 2021)

Taxman said:


> I'm sorry but that is intrusive on "alone time". What, pray tell, was your wife's motivation in inviting "friends". My wife pulled that on me exactly once. I told her that if that were her plans, she was welcome to go away with these friends and I would entertain myself while they were gone. She was caught short. I told her I tolerate these people in small increments. An evening or meal is ideal, but two damn weeks? I said, when we vacation, it is to get away from stuff: Kids, inlaws, work, and our circle of friends. Sorry, but wanting time alone with my wife is why I vacation. If my vacation is to be wasted with acquaintances sucking up the oxygen in the room, then I would rather stay home and continue working until my time is my own. My wife called them. We lost friends that day. I said that she was the responsible party, as she should have checked with me before making plans. Paying $5K to NOT enjoy myself? No f'ing way. From that point onward, vacation plans were made jointly.
> 
> That little remark about having an affair all set up would not be well received. In fact, I would say that since you seem to wish to piss away a decent marriage, please, by all means, go with it. I will be happy to recount this to a court of law. Your children will be so proud. If you wish to end our marriage for the sake of acquaintances, then obviously I have chosen the wrong wife. See you in court.


Exactly! I agree. I think even my wife now agrees. She lost her temper with her angry threats, thinking I would back down and not change hotels. I was wrong to go along in the first place with this absurd request. Part of the reason I did, was to meet up with my brother and his wife vacationing there. She loves them, but still, we only had 3 meals with them during two weeks. And on one of those, her friends dragged themselves along with us. 

Never again will I agree to such a crazy idea, but I can work on being less judgmental and more tolerant, but two weeks with these people forced on me was ridiculous. She knows I will agree to anything like this again. I've made it clear she can move out if she doesn't like it. My house and savings are my separate property and besides this blind spot of hers, she's essentially honest and fair and has her own separate property, so there are no financial bad consequences to cutting her loose.


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## Icemann (Apr 7, 2021)

MattMatt said:


> @Icemann Your wife has an affair partner already lined up?


No. That was a lie. I knew it was a lie. She said it to get control. I called her bluff and changed hotels anyway. Things get said in anger, but at least there was no violence.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Icemann said:


> Her friend, once beautiful, has become so bloated she looks like Humpty Dumpty, her little eyes and nose almost lost in a vast expanse of white flesh that spreads her grin across the face as if to completely dissect it. My wife fears I will actually say something like that out loud.


I understand your ranting. It's kinda funny but not funny. 

You really come across as someone very arrogant, better than everyone else, and you could be, but come on! Move on. It was a terrible, unforgettable experience and you won't do it again. That's it. 

The way you talked about it, I thought you were still down there! At the hotel by the pool. 

Next time say no. Problem solved. 

P.s. if she talks about divorce or an affair again, you know what to do.


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## Icemann (Apr 7, 2021)

pastasauce79 said:


> I understand your ranting. It's kinda funny but not funny.
> 
> You really come across as someone very arrogant, better than everyone else, and you could be, but come on! Move on. It was a terrible, unforgettable experience and you won't do it again. That's it.
> 
> ...


I agree completely. And yes, I am arrogant... one of many failings. My little attempts at humor are a coping mechanism.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Icemann said:


> I agree completely. And yes, I am arrogant... one of many failings. My little attempts at humor are a coping mechanism.


Where are you going on your next trip? 

Just joking!


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

I occasionally travel with another couple.

Generally I don’t like traveling with others because I want to relax and operate on my own schedule. With that said it can be fun to have drinking buddies and such where you have limited interaction.

If would be pissed at the locked in a tiny B&B thing and I would have scheduled my own excursions and such with my wife to get away from them. I don’t like staying in B&B’s anyway as I hate being controlled I also don’t want to be at the mercy of their food or breakfast or any of their other stuff. My wife knows better than to pull that crap with me, she knows I want to stay at luxury resorts only.

If my wife was being a PITA about it I probably would have secured a supply of alcohol and or Rx drugs any opiates would do and medicated my way through most of it. I would not have stormed out of the place and rented a separate hotel although now that you brought it up congrats on the big D move.

The biggest amount of time I will take it on the chin doing something like that I don’t like is maybe 2-3 days tops not 2 weeks.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Icemann said:


> No. That was a lie. I knew it was a lie. She said it to get control. I called her bluff and changed hotels anyway. Things get said in anger, but at least there was no violence.


Has there been violence before?

This is a strange bench-mark to accommodate what gets said in anger.


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## manowar (Oct 3, 2020)

delete


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Icemann said:


> She threatened divorce and even claimed she had an 'affair' arranged and would act on it


Whoa! That is messed up and very toxic.

I personally couldn’t think of many things worse than holidaying with another couple for that long, especially if I didn’t like them that much.

id be fine with having dinner with them a couple of times, maybe even a sightseeing day or two, but that’s it. Every waking moment of every day for two weeks? Omfg no way.


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## manowar (Oct 3, 2020)

delete


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

IMO the only thing you did wrong was relenting in the first place. That said, you'd be wise to look into this a bit further...



Icemann said:


> She threatened divorce and even claimed she had an 'affair' arranged and would act on it.


Sorry, but that's in no way a normal response, and it's certainly not an acceptable one.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Icemann said:


> Things get said in anger, but at least there was no violence.


😧


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

I haven’t read all of the posts but for your first one. People like you and want to spend time with you... 

I really don’t know what else to say, except something mean, so I’ll bit my tongue.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Icemann said:


> Honestly, I am just looking for validation.  sort of. Mostly, I just want her to be able to see things from an objective perspective. Obviously, at this point neither of us can be objective. I AM an arrogant prick who enjoys his own company. I do not like to be around controlling people. Her friend even offered me prescription opioids. She was being nice, since I have a bad back. But to me it was just another effort to control. Why is it so wrong to simply prefer some people to others?


Wonder if this lady is your wifes dealer? How much drugs has she given your wife?


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## manowar (Oct 3, 2020)

delete


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## manowar (Oct 3, 2020)

delete


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Icemann said:


> There is much truth in what you write. Yes, I want validation. I have written as much. I'm sorry you wrote this with a somewhat malicious tone, but that's YOUR issue.


Rowan is a true Southern lady and doesn't do malicious. 

Because her post caused you discomfort, you might want to take a closer look at it. Try not to shoot from the hip.


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## azimuth (May 15, 2018)

The other couple liked you and wanted to spend time with you. They are your wife's friends and it would make her happy to take a vacation together. The other couple is dull, unattractive and not intelligent enough for you to want to be around. Who knows the real truth as to how you ended up actually going with them. But you did. And instead of making the most of the situation in a reasonable way, such as doing activities and meals just the two of you, you threw an epic tantrum by checking into your own hotel. I can't even begin to imagine how embarrassing that would be for everyone. Going into your own hotel is a weapon you used to sabotage everyone's vacation and humiliate your wife. How do you feel now that you got the ultimate "win." She roped you into going, you showed her, by leaving her and making friends with your new hotel proprietor and having a marvelous time alone. No one gets one over on you that's for sure! That'll show 'em.

I was married to someone who didn't like to be around people. Every wedding I was a bridesmaid or a guest in, I went alone. Every social outing he would be "sick" or his "back hurt" and we'd leave early. He had panic attacks before our daughter's special days like recital or first day of school. At least he had an excuse of having an anxiety disorder, you are just a curmudgeon. 

To answer your question, yes it's reasonable to take friends vacations together. No, it's not reasonable to spend every second together. Most people mix couples only time and friends time, like you could have done. But you didn't give anyone the chance because you left the group to be a curmudgeon after less than 3 days of a two week vacation.

From my perspective, it seems like you really couldn't bare your wife getting any kind of satisfaction from being surrounded by the people she loves. You had to blow up her vacation and make it all about you. Your feelings, your dislike of the people, your need for space. You really wanted to hammer home how much you disliked her friends, and you did. If you were as against this as you are, you wouldn't have gone. You wouldn't have paid for it. But, if you hadn't gone, you wouldn't have had the chance to nuke her vacation and make her look like a fool in front of her friends.

You mention her "threats" and "anger" as to what you forced you to go on vacation. Here are the cold hard facts. You went, which presupposes you agreed. You left after less than 3 days before she could prove to you that it would be a good vacation. If I were her, I would be mad as hell too. And I wouldn't threaten, I would actually file divorce papers upon arrival at home. So if she's keeping up her end of your marriage bargain with looks and sex, then if I were you I would let this go. And if she's as "angry" as you're painting her to be, then it would probably be for the best if you or she did leave the marriage.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

azimuth said:


> The other couple liked you and wanted to spend time with you. They are your wife's friends and it would make her happy to take a vacation together. The other couple is dull, unattractive and not intelligent enough for you to want to be around.


It strikes me as unusual that the friends like him and insist on his company despite how he feels about them. Many people are pretty perceptive to how others interact with them, so I do question whether OP is an exceptional actor around them, or whether his take on this dynamic is accurate.

I am still interested to know the answer to my previous question though if he is willing to answer.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

azimuth said:


> To answer your question, yes it's reasonable to take friends vacations together. No, it's not reasonable to spend every second together. Most people mix couples only time and friends time, like you could have done. But you didn't give anyone the chance because you left the group to be a curmudgeon after less than 3 days of a two week vacation.
> 
> From my perspective, it seems like you really couldn't bare your wife getting any kind of satisfaction from being surrounded by the people she loves. You had to blow up her vacation and make it all about you. Your feelings, your dislike of the people, your need for space. You really wanted to hammer home how much you disliked her friends, and you did. If you were as against this as you are, you wouldn't have gone. You wouldn't have paid for it. But, if you hadn't gone, you wouldn't have had the chance to nuke her vacation and make her look like a fool in front of her friends.


This is an interesting perspective and I have quoted just this part as you had me thinking (always dangerous!) ...and I reread the opening post and thought that another way this could have been dealt with could simply be to express to wife and friends that he wanted to have some meals just with his wife/time alone and then meet up at other times. Upon reflection, the moving to another hotel could be viewed as a bit explosive. And the wife saying she had an affair partner in the wings, well, I'm with majority here that it'd have me packing my bags and not looking back, however, IF that is something she said out of anger and without substance (which is still really poor form) it's also a communication that she wants out - or wants to push him out/away from her. And that beckons the question, why? And the behavior also indicates that she was doing what she could to not be alone with him. I find the dynamic odd and putting a judgement on it, unhealthy.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

azimuth said:


> The other couple liked you and wanted to spend time with you. They are your wife's friends and it would make her happy to take a vacation together. The other couple is dull, unattractive and not intelligent enough for you to want to be around. Who knows the real truth as to how you ended up actually going with them. But you did. And instead of making the most of the situation in a reasonable way, such as doing activities and meals just the two of you, you threw an epic tantrum by checking into your own hotel. I can't even begin to imagine how embarrassing that would be for everyone. Going into your own hotel is a weapon you used to sabotage everyone's vacation and humiliate your wife. How do you feel now that you got the ultimate "win." She roped you into going, you showed her, by leaving her and making friends with your new hotel proprietor and having a marvelous time alone. No one gets one over on you that's for sure! That'll show 'em.
> 
> I was married to someone who didn't like to be around people. Every wedding I was a bridesmaid or a guest in, I went alone. Every social outing he would be "sick" or his "back hurt" and we'd leave early. He had panic attacks before our daughter's special days like recital or first day of school. At least he had an excuse of having an anxiety disorder, you are just a curmudgeon.
> 
> ...


Did you read the opening post?

They talked about it when the vacation was in planning stages. He let her know he wasn't interested in taking a two week vacation with these particular people. Instead, that was ignored and they booked themselves into the small B and B OP and his wife were staying at. The 4 of them were the only guests. It was expected to eat all 3 meals together, every day. Talk about being blindsided!!!!

And no, it's not reasonable to be sneakily forced into taking a 2 week vacation together in a small B and B with people you have told your wife you completely aren't interested in vacationing with.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Icemann said:


> Thanks! That is exactly how I feel. This is pretty much the only issue we still have. *She likes everyone, me not so much.* She has a high tolerance for boring people who talk too much. She visits an elderly, lonely neighbor once or twice a week. I respect her for that, particularly because this lady is a 'know-it-all' who talks, but does not listen. My wife is a wonderful listener and does not expect me to join her. *She wants me to love all her friends.* I don't even want to try.


How is the vacation / incompatible social preferences pretty much the only issue you still have. 

She doesn't like you very much, yet wants you to love all her friends? I really don't understand the dynamic you share.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Livvie said:


> Did you read the opening post?
> 
> They talked about it when the vacation was in planning stages. He let her know he wasn't interested in taking a two week vacation with these particular people. Instead, that was ignored and they booked themselves into the small B and B OP and his wife were staying at. The 4 of them were the only guests. It was expected to eat all 3 meals together, every day. Talk about being blindsided!!!!
> 
> And no, it's not reasonable to be sneakily forced into taking a 2 week vacation together in a small B and B with people you have told your wife you completely aren't interested in vacationing with.


I get where you and majority are coming from, as I read it that way too. 

However, I do appreciate considering a potential flip-side perspective to the scenario presented.


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## manowar (Oct 3, 2020)

Icemann said:


> Is it even close to reasonable to expect a spouse to go on a two week vacation with a spouse's friends?





Icemann said:


> We had EVERY meal together every day until about day 3 when her friend insisted on our nonstop talking hostess join us for breakfast and dinner.


I owe this guy an apology. I got this whole thing wrong. read it too fast. I F'ed up!

No it's not reasonable. And the thing w/ the hostess, I don't blame you at all. that's over the top. No man should have to endure the chatty hostess.. Im surprised you didnt book a flight home.


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## azimuth (May 15, 2018)

Livvie said:


> Did you read the opening post?
> 
> They talked about it when the vacation was in planning stages. He let her know he wasn't interested in taking a two week vacation with these particular people. Instead, that was ignored and they booked themselves into the small B and B OP and his wife were staying at. The 4 of them were the only guests. It was expected to eat all 3 meals together, every day. Talk about being blindsided!!!!
> 
> And no, it's not reasonable to be sneakily forced into taking a 2 week vacation together in a small B and B with people you have told your wife you completely aren't interested in vacationing with.



Of course I read the opening post. If he wasn't interested, why did he go. And, it was definitely not expected that they were going to eat all three meals together, that's what he said happened for the first 2.5 days before he booked his own hotel. He didn't give them/her the chance to do their own thing because he went and did his own thing and had a marvelous time. He did know the other couple was coming right? Why didn't he suggest doing couples-only activities or meals. Why did he just go with the flow then bail? He left her to be third wheel with the other couple. He is the one who did the blindside not her.

They had been planning, they were communicating, they came to some sort of agreement where he ended up with them on the vacation, that suggests that he was ok taking a vacation with them. If he hates them so much, why did he get on the plane? Unless she flat out tricked him into saying they weren't going to be there, it doesn't make sense why wouldn't discuss and continue to plan the activities while they were there. Heck, just take the wife and say "we're going to the coral reef today." and done. Instead he left her.

I have gone on vacations without my husband when I was married because he refused to go. He refused to go to a big family destination wedding that hurt the feelings of the bride and groom. I've been left at events, I've had to leave early, I've had to make excuses for him not being there. It's not fun at all. During that time I would have loved to have a husband who would come on a vacation and just have fun. I know how it feels to walk on eggshells. The OP and his wife were there, on a vacation, and by booking his own hotel it created a bad atmosphere. He shouldn't have done that. I view it as sort of a punishment he gave her.


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## azimuth (May 15, 2018)

heartsbeating said:


> I get where you and majority are coming from, as I read it that way too.
> 
> However, I do appreciate considering a potential flip-side perspective to the scenario presented.



He has presented a scenario in which everyone around him is an enemy. He's strategically "fighting" with his wife, and her back at him. It seems very combative and not relaxing and not fun, which a vacation should be. He said he was a trial lawyer, this seems like one of his cases or something, like he couldn't let the other couple or his wife win. It's a very strange situation.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

azimuth said:


> Of course I read the opening post. If he wasn't interested, why did he go. And, it was definitely not expected that they were going to eat all three meals together, that's what he said happened for the first 2.5 days before he booked his own hotel. He didn't give them/her the chance to do their own thing because he went and did his own thing and had a marvelous time. He did know the other couple was coming right? Why didn't he suggest doing couples-only activities or meals. Why did he just go with the flow then bail? He left her to be third wheel with the other couple. He is the one who did the blindside not her.
> 
> They had been planning, they were communicating, they came to some sort of agreement where he ended up with them on the vacation, that suggests that he was ok taking a vacation with them. If he hates them so much, why did he get on the plane? Unless she flat out tricked him into saying they weren't going to be there, it doesn't make sense why wouldn't discuss and continue to plan the activities while they were there. Heck, just take the wife and say "we're going to the coral reef today." and done. Instead he left her.
> 
> I have gone on vacations without my husband when I was married because he refused to go. He refused to go to a big family destination wedding that hurt the feelings of the bride and groom. I've been left at events, I've had to leave early, I've had to make excuses for him not being there. It's not fun at all. During that time I would have loved to have a husband who would come on a vacation and just have fun. I know how it feels to walk on eggshells. The OP and his wife were there, on a vacation, and by booking his own hotel it created a bad atmosphere. He shouldn't have done that. I view it as sort of a punishment he gave her.


If you say you read it, then it's your reading comprehension that's the problem. Because you are saying things that plain aren't true. It's kind of like you are are gaslighting. Blech.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

If his wife concealed evidence of her conspiracy to spend every moment with friends and turn his whole two weeks into a buddy trip and no time for ge and her to reconnect after a busy life, he’s right to be upset.
I agre the leaving for a hotel was meant to punish her, but if she placed him in a bad position without his consent, she deserves a consequence. However, the other couple was not at fault, and he shouldn’t have done that just on their account. It was rude.
No doubt OP’s inability to communicate and establish parameters in the trip that he could live with played a part.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Icemann said:


> There is much truth in what you write. Yes, I want validation. I have written as much. I'm sorry you wrote this with a somewhat malicious tone, but that's YOUR issue.


Well sir, she isn't dealing with a spouse like your wife nor would she put up with or behave in a manner like your wife.

She is apparently in a far more solid position than you appear to be in.

Don't be hasty to assign malicious intent.

You're receiving kid glove treatment from me thanks to years of TAM experience that involves Rowan's influence among others.

In my early years here, I would have taken a very sharp shot that would cut past all the bull **** but would absolutely offend.

Appreciate Rowan's forebearance and patience with you.


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## Icemann (Apr 7, 2021)

pastasauce79 said:


> Where are you going on your next trip?
> 
> Just joking!


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## Icemann (Apr 7, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> If his wife concealed evidence of her conspiracy to spend every moment with friends and turn his whole two weeks into a buddy trip and no time for ge and her to reconnect after a busy life, he’s right to be upset.
> I agre the leaving for a hotel was meant to punish her, but if she placed him in a bad position without his consent, she deserves a consequence. However, the other couple was not at fault, and he shouldn’t have done that just on their account. It was rude.
> No doubt OP’s inability to communicate and establish parameters in the trip that he could live with played a part.


I was not trying to 'punish' anyone. I just wanted to get away. Picture yourself at a party and some bore corners you. You're polite, you respond pleasantly, then you move on. But the 'bore' follows you. Wherever you go she or he follows and joins the conversation. What to do? Either you are direct and ask them to leave you alone and quit following you, or you leave the party. Or? What would you do?


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## Icemann (Apr 7, 2021)

ConanHub said:


> You're receiving kid glove treatment from me


Oh! Thank you so much for your indulgence and self congratulation. I am SO grateful for such kindness from a transparent egoist with no basis for self promotion.


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## Icemann (Apr 7, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> I occasionally travel with another couple.
> 
> Generally I don’t like traveling with others because I want to relax and operate on my own schedule. With that said it can be fun to have drinking buddies and such where you have limited interaction.
> 
> ...


Thanks! You nailed it. I played along for exactly 2-3 days, then realized 'playing nice' only made it worse. I bailed. I should have bailed earlier, like not going at all. BTW, I didn't 'storm out.' I simply left without ceremony and walked down the road and found another resort. The only drama was from my wife following to my room and making her threats. Threats only increase my resolve.


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## Icemann (Apr 7, 2021)

frusdil said:


> Whoa! That is messed up and very toxic.
> 
> I personally couldn’t think of many things worse than holidaying with another couple for that long, especially if I didn’t like them that much.
> 
> id be fine with having dinner with them a couple of times, maybe even a sightseeing day or two, but that’s it. Every waking moment of every day for two weeks? Omfg no way.


Thanks! Exactly! I got a great laugh when my wife wanted me to pay for this debacle. In retrospect, I would pay NOT to go. At least the bills did not go on _my _credit card.  I am still attracted to my wife and would like to salvage the relationship, but.... It is getting easier to walk away


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## Icemann (Apr 7, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> Wonder if this lady is your wifes dealer? How much drugs has she given your wife?


 Your response makes perfect sense, but wifey won't even smoke pot, or even take ibuprofen. But she IS addicted to 'friendship.' No problem with being loyal to friends, but family should come first.


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## Icemann (Apr 7, 2021)

azimuth said:


> The other couple liked you and wanted to spend time with you. They are your wife's friends and it would make her happy to take a vacation together. The other couple is dull, unattractive and not intelligent enough for you to want to be around. Who knows the real truth as to how you ended up actually going with them. But you did. And instead of making the most of the situation in a reasonable way, such as doing activities and meals just the two of you, you threw an epic tantrum by checking into your own hotel. I can't even begin to imagine how embarrassing that would be for everyone. Going into your own hotel is a weapon you used to sabotage everyone's vacation and humiliate your wife. How do you feel now that you got the ultimate "win." She roped you into going, you showed her, by leaving her and making friends with your new hotel proprietor and having a marvelous time alone. No one gets one over on you that's for sure! That'll show 'em.
> 
> I was married to someone who didn't like to be around people. Every wedding I was a bridesmaid or a guest in, I went alone. Every social outing he would be "sick" or his "back hurt" and we'd leave early. He had panic attacks before our daughter's special days like recital or first day of school. At least he had an excuse of having an anxiety disorder, you are just a curmudgeon.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you are projecting and bringing your own issues into the discussion, changing the facts to fit your own sad narrative. I simply left. No fanfare, no insults, just walked away, doing what I should have done much earlier. I should not have believed the promise that that we would not be together every day. Just like that boring couple, I'll ignore you.


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## Icemann (Apr 7, 2021)

Blondilocks said:


> Rowan is a true Southern lady and doesn't do malicious.


"Southern lady?" Why do you insult her with such an horrible accusation?


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## Icemann (Apr 7, 2021)

heartsbeating said:


> How is the vacation / incompatible social preferences pretty much the only issue you still have.
> 
> She doesn't like you very much, yet wants you to love all her friends? I really don't understand the dynamic you share.


If people don't like each other, they don't care enough to get angry. But it IS crazy. I like many of her friends and most of her relatives, but I've made it clear I will never see these people again, ever. If she doesn't like it, she knows where the door is.


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## Icemann (Apr 7, 2021)

azimuth said:


> He has presented a scenario in which everyone around him is an enemy. He's strategically "fighting" with his wife, and her back at him. It seems very combative and not relaxing and not fun, which a vacation should be. He said he was a trial lawyer, this seems like one of his cases or something, like he couldn't let the other couple or his wife win. It's a very strange situation.


No, not everyone is an 'enemy.' I just don't want to be around people who process information so poorly, and with so much bias and venom; people like you who appear to want to attack rather than help.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

heartsbeating said:


> How is the vacation / incompatible social preferences pretty much the only issue you still have.
> 
> She doesn't like you very much, yet wants you to love all her friends? I really don't understand the dynamic you share.


He is saying HE does not like everyone so much. Should have read " , me, not soo much." He just missed a comma.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Icemann said:


> I was not trying to 'punish' anyone. I just wanted to get away. Picture yourself at a party and some bore corners you. You're polite, you respond pleasantly, then you move on. But the 'bore' follows you. Wherever you go she or he follows and joins the conversation. What to do? Either you are direct and ask them to leave you alone and quit following you, or you leave the party. Or? What would you do?


Its almost impossible for extroverts to understand that for many of us being with other people 24/7 is just awful and completely draining and exhausting. They love to be with others and get drained and tired when they arent. Thats the problem with you and your wife, you are an introvert and she is an extrovert, and thats why many replies here are so different as well.
Even if I love people, I would not want to spend many days together. Family yes, others no.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

azimuth said:


> The other couple liked you and wanted to spend time with you. They are your wife's friends and it would make her happy to take a vacation together. The other couple is dull, unattractive and not intelligent enough for you to want to be around. Who knows the real truth as to how you ended up actually going with them. But you did. And instead of making the most of the situation in a reasonable way, such as doing activities and meals just the two of you, you threw an epic tantrum by checking into your own hotel. I can't even begin to imagine how embarrassing that would be for everyone. Going into your own hotel is a weapon you used to sabotage everyone's vacation and humiliate your wife. How do you feel now that you got the ultimate "win." She roped you into going, you showed her, by leaving her and making friends with your new hotel proprietor and having a marvelous time alone. No one gets one over on you that's for sure! That'll show 'em.
> 
> I was married to someone who didn't like to be around people. Every wedding I was a bridesmaid or a guest in, I went alone. Every social outing he would be "sick" or his "back hurt" and we'd leave early. He had panic attacks before our daughter's special days like recital or first day of school. At least he had an excuse of having an anxiety disorder, you are just a curmudgeon.
> 
> ...


Most introverts like myself will not avoid things like weddings and childrens events, we will always make that effort to go even if its tiring and draining emotionally.


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## azimuth (May 15, 2018)

Icemann said:


> Sounds like you are projecting and bringing your own issues into the discussion, changing the facts to fit your own sad narrative. I simply left. No fanfare, no insults, just walked away, doing what I should have done much earlier. I should not have believed the promise that that we would not be together every day. Just like that boring couple, I'll ignore you.


I was bringing a perspective of a wife who has a husband who doesn't like to socialize with people.

Do you rely on your wife to do the leading in the relationship? I'm wondering why you didn't insist on going to dinner/lunch/activity alone with her. Instead you let her set the tone for 2.5 days before you bailed. 2.5 days is not long enough to give a two-week vacation a chance.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Icemann said:


> No, not everyone is an 'enemy.' I just don't want to be around people who process information so poorly, and with so much bias and venom; people like you who appear to want to attack rather than help.


I observe most of your responses contain or end with a snarky negative jab at the person or group who have taken their time to respond to you, offer perspective, comment, advice, thoughts.

If that's your go to type of communication perhaps you did her a favor by leaving.

At first I was thinking you didn't have the balls to deny accepting a vacation format that you knew would turn out badly.

Or you knew it would and wanted an excuse to act out during the vacation just to show your W who's boss.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Icemann said:


> I agree completely. And yes, I am arrogant... one of many failings. My little attempts at humor are a coping mechanism.


Another, arrogant Martian!

We are what we are. 

Being a Defense Attorney was/is a good career choice for you.

You would be better served with girlfriends, only.

Or, a calm and exclusive lady with thick skin.

Carry on!


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Icemann said:


> Thanks! You nailed it. I played along for exactly 2-3 days, then realized 'playing nice' only made it worse. I bailed. I should have bailed earlier, like not going at all. BTW, I didn't 'storm out.' I simply left without ceremony and walked down the road and found another resort. The only drama was from my wife following to my room and making her threats. Threats only increase my resolve.


Yeah like I said I have never been placed in a situation where I’d need to tolerate it for longer than 2-3 days. My wife knows I’d react really badly because I have repeatedly told her I would.

If she is going to go on a family trip or something in close quarters for a long period she will say, “I’d love for you to come but please don’t if you’re going to hate it.” I have gotten her to modify trips like that so that I feel comfortable that I have stuff to do to get away. A nearby pool, bar, casino, etc... is often plenty and then I can just cut out when it gets to be too much.

Another example is long sightseeing trips. I can’t stand them. I hate having a schedule of little things to check off it makes it feel like work instead of vacation and I work long hours and an exhausted most of the year. So when my wife wants to do these she goes with her friends and I stay at home.

Only recently I started getting into cruises where I can go out in the morning and exercise with whatever group is doing that and if I don’t like the excursions get my drink and chill out by the pool all day while wife does sightseeing or cultural exchanges or whatever is going on off the ship.

I compliment your problem solving with this one. I can’t say what I would do if she blindsided me with a situation like that where I was stuck for two weeks because she has been smart enough to never do it.


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## Icemann (Apr 7, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Its almost impossible for extroverts to understand that for many of us being with other people 24/7 is just awful and completely draining and exhausting. They love to be with others and get drained and tired when they arent. Thats the problem with you and your wife, you are an introvert and she is an extrovert, and thats why many replies here are so different as well.
> Even if I love people, I would not want to spend many days together. Family yes, others no.


Tho' I agree for the most part, this is an over simplification. I used to throw parties at my place, at least one every two weeks. I love parties. They leave me energized. It is much more than introvert vs. extrovert. I suppose I'm an 'ambivert.' I'd just rather choose my own friends, just as one does not invite certain people to a party, or takes care in choosing dinner guests. We choose guests who will enjoy or complement each other.

Some people bring out the humor and creativity in others; some kill it.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

With a party when you’re done you can also kick people out or call the cops if you need to.


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## Icemann (Apr 7, 2021)

.


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## Icemann (Apr 7, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Yeah like I said I have never been placed in a situation where I’d need to tolerate it for longer than 2-3 days. My wife knows I’d react really badly because I have repeatedly told her I would.
> 
> If she is going to go on a family trip or something in close quarters for a long period she will say, “I’d love for you to come but please don’t if you’re going to hate it.” I have gotten her to modify trips like that so that I feel comfortable that I have stuff to do to get away. A nearby pool, bar, casino, etc... is often plenty and then I can just cut out when it gets to be too much.
> 
> ...


Thanks, CC! Perfect example!


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## Icemann (Apr 7, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> With a party when you’re done you can also kick people out or call the cops if you need to.


😁


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Icemann said:


> Thanks! You nailed it. I played along for exactly 2-3 days, then realized 'playing nice' only made it worse. I bailed. I should have bailed earlier, like not going at all. BTW, I didn't 'storm out.' I simply left without ceremony and walked down the road and found another resort. The only drama was from my wife following to my room and making her threats. Threats only increase my resolve.


I'm just curious -- while THERE, did you not talk with your wife to let her know that you wanted some time with JUST HER and not those friends? 2-3 days of continuous "togetherness" is a lot if you wanted time alone with your wife.
Did you attempt to say "W and I are going out to dinner tonight -- just us -- we will see you tomorrow" type of thing?


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## Icemann (Apr 7, 2021)

jlg07 said:


> I'm just curious -- while THERE, did you not talk with your wife to let her know that you wanted some time with JUST HER and not those friends? 2-3 days of continuous "togetherness" is a lot if you wanted time alone with your wife.
> Did you attempt to say "W and I are going out to dinner tonight -- just us -- we will see you tomorrow" type of thing?


Yes, I did exactly that. And we did have time alone and had a great time, just the two of us. But my expectation was we would only have 3 or 4 meals with these people. Instead, a meal alone with my wife felt like the exception, rather than the other way 'round, until I moved out. 
Anyway, it's all over now. We are getting along better than ever. It helped that we had a good time entertaining her boss, a physics professor, and his daughter.

Thankfully I ignored the "help" suggested by a couple people here, that I instantly divorce my wife.


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

After a few bad trips when I was young, I am VERY particular about who I will travel with, for a number of reasons. Your wife crossed several lines here. Glad to hear she sees the error of her ways. The fact she threw out the "I'll just go ahead and have an affair that I already have set up" card should be alarming, though. At a minimum she is terrible at debate, at least in this (isolated?) event. At worst, she's being honest.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Due to the fact the OP has deleted his opening post and several other of his posts within this thread the thread is now closed to further replies.


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