# Lost love, wife devastated



## katsuma (Aug 17, 2014)

Hi, 34 year old male here. Been with wife since I was 18 and married for last 8 years with two children, 7 & 9.

Yesterday I told my wife I wanted a separation/divorce.

My reasons:



Lack of intimacy

Dead bedroom pretty much since first child was born - maybe 3-4 times per year

Wife has gained quite a bit of weight since first child and has not managed to shift despite several attempts

Difference in values - how to keep a home, etc.

Refusal to participate in family activities that involve physical activity


There are others but these are the headline reasons.

I care for her well being - she is the best mother, intelligent, funny, we don't fight, and obviously both love the kids unconditionally. However, for the last couple of years I have found myself falling out love with her to the point where I now feel nothing - I feel empty as far as emotions towards her go and there is no physical attraction whatsoever.

A few times over the years I have hinted at problems, but any attempt at change was short-lived. My regret is not having a more frank and open discussion with her earlier, however I feel now that it's too late and I've let my feelings dissappear for good which is why I felt there was no option but to suggest a separation.

What I didn't want was for resentment to start to take hold on my part, arguments to begin, and for me to seek love elsewhere whilst still in the relationship. I feel this would create a toxic environment for the children and also out of respect is something I'd avoid at all costs.

As expected, my wife did not take the news well as it seemingly came out of the blue. As far as she was concerned, everything was ok in the morning and I hit her with a freight train in the afternoon, but she's more upset that I haven't given it a chance and appear not be fighting for her or the kids.

All I know is, in my heart, I don't love her anymore. The thought of not seeing the children every day crushes me, but the thought of staying in a loveless relationship is a thing I don't think I can endure.

As mentioned, my wife is devastated and will try anything if it means I'll stay. I'm not sure whether anything is salvagable at this point and am hesistant to try counselling, etc. Perhaps this is selfish, I'm not sure...

Thank you for listening


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Wow, I'm sorry you find yourself in this situation OP. I feel for your wife too - it wasn't fair of you to keep all this in and not let her know just how serious the problems were.

I think you owe it to her and your children to try every single option there is to save your marriage before even thinking about divorce. Give her the chance to at least try to make things right - you owe her that much.


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## crash test (Sep 6, 2013)

I agree with Fru...I'm zero for 2 in relationships and trust me when I tell you that if you think you will be crushed not seeing your kids every day you need to magnify that feeling by 10 because that's what it'll really be...I'm currently in legal shi*storm trying to get 50/50 custody of my son from her mother who has taken him to another state....I can't say strongly enough to give it everything you have right now to try and make it work...it sounds to me like you have someone willing to try with you and that's more than half the battle...as for the specifics of how? there are people way more qualified and experienced to help but first thing I'd say is get in counseling now


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

I know that you have it hard at the moment, but I agree with the others that say try and work it out. When you marry someone, you put her above all else. She has committed herself to you and you should do the same. If she is willing to work at it, then I would say to you please do it. Many marriages have these problems and it is definitely hard work sometimes, but very worthwhile in my opinion. Please do not do anything rash and give your no 1 priority (your wife) the chance to make this right. You will be thankful that you did further down the line.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

You sound like such an honest person.... I think you've done the right thing being totally honest with your wife.

Some men, just go on with things the way they are continuing in a bad marriage, cheating and doing what they like, you on the other hand have been honest about your feelings.... you do not want to cheat or mess around, you want to be honest and let your wife know how your feeling.

Its really sad you've hurt your wife, but you've gone the right way about things, If you really cant see a way forward, then i think divorce or separation could be the way forward, I do not think you owe her anything as such, you owe her the truth.... and that is what you've given her, I do not think you should stay in the relationship if its really not what you want....... it could just cause resentment.


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

I do appreciate your honesty with your feelings.

You're basically dumping your wife because she's fat. Your disappointment comes from her lack of serious effort to lose weight. It's unhealthy and spills over to other aspects of Life, such as bedroom activities or an active lifestyle.

It has caused you to become unhappy and see her with different eyes than when you first were married. So, I do understand your stance in wanting a divorce because of these reasons.

I will caution you though, Life does work in mysterious ways. And sometimes, the things you want now seem very trivial looking back from the future.

Let's take a look at a five year mark. You'll be divorced, living on your own, seeing your kids every other weekend. That will give you time to seek and find a more thinner partner. One that fits in a size two and you'll be proud of how she looks when you go out together.

She, on the other hand, will be devastated for about a year. That will give her time to figure out how to lose the weight and gain confidence in herself to date a man who will also see your kids every other weekend, possibly eventually live with them.

So, I ask you, who's getting the better end of the deal, you or her?

My money is on her....


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

frusdil said:


> Wow, I'm sorry you find yourself in this situation OP. I feel for your wife too - it wasn't fair of you to keep all this in and not let her know just how serious the problems were.
> 
> I think you owe it to her and your children to try every single option there is to save your marriage before even thinking about divorce. Give her the chance to at least try to make things right - you owe her that much.


Agreed.

Are you cheating or have you cheated on her? Your comments would seem to indicate that you have not/are not, but I figured I'd ask.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

> *(1) A few times over the years I have hinted at problems, but any attempt at change was short-lived.* My regret is not having a more frank and open discussion with her earlier, however I feel now that it's too late and I've let my feelings dissappear for good which is why I felt there was no option but to suggest a separation.


Hinting around? Sitting around passively hoping she fixes her issues? WOW. Way to understate that regret too. I normally feel sympathy for those who aren't getting the love and affection they need out of their marrage, but not if you are going to sit back and hope that she "get's the hint". It's a pretty stupid way for a marriage to end. You could have done more. A whole lot more. It's hard to fix a problem if the other person doesn't know a problem is there.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

melw74 said:


> You sound like such an honest person.... I think you've done the right thing being totally honest with your wife.
> 
> Some men, just go on with things the way they are continuing in a bad marriage, cheating and doing what they like, you on the other hand have been honest about your feelings.... you do not want to cheat or mess around, you want to be honest and let your wife know how your feeling.
> 
> Its really sad you've hurt your wife, but you've gone the right way about things, If you really cant see a way forward, then i think divorce or separation could be the way forward, I do not think you owe her anything as such, you owe her the truth.... and that is what you've given her, I do not think you should stay in the relationship if its really not what you want....... it could just cause resentment.


Honesty is a good thing, but holding all this sh*t in for years and then hitting his wife over the head w/ the divorce bat out of the blue is just plain wrong.


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## Kvothe_The_Raven (Apr 6, 2014)

katsuma said:


> All I know is, in my heart, I don't love her anymore. The thought of not seeing the children every day crushes me, *but the thought of staying in a loveless relationship is a thing I don't think I can endure.*
> 
> *I'm not sure* whether anything is salvagable at this point and am hesistant to try counselling, etc. Perhaps this is selfish, I'm not sure...


Selfish? Yeah, a bit IMO but you've been honest now, which is commendable. Now that you have got things out in the open is in my mind the start, not the end and divorce should be a last resort when all other options have been attempted and exhausted.

I wholeheartedly agree with you though, nobody should stay in a loveless relationship, but that doesn't mean deserting a family in order to replace the emptiness with someone or something else. Feelings are feelings; they are important but they are transient and, to an extent, we govern them. "Love is as perennial as the grass". I urge you to try to envisage what a truly loving relationship looks like; how your needs are fulfilled and how it would feel to be totally connected in a relationship where both spouses are completely happy. Then try to create this. If your wife is on board then she will be only too happy to work together with you through honest and respectful communication.

Your list of reasons are understandable but to me they read like symptoms of something deeper. Perhaps a little soul searching is needed but I hope that you can work on it within your marriage. 

All the best.


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## Kvothe_The_Raven (Apr 6, 2014)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> It's hard to fix a problem if the other person doesn't know a problem is there.


Precisely. I'm in OP wife's shoes. Yes I wasn't there for her in the way she needed but she failed to communicate that to me until her feelings were gone. I don't blame her, nor do I pity myself. We just didn't communicate properly or respect each other as we should have done but that's fine. That's human. What's noble is how we decide to grow from that.

Sometimes we have to hit rock bottom before we can really begin to climb to the top, not just in marriage but in all walks of life. I hope this frieght train that you've both been hit with is a wake up call to working on a better relationship.


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

You should have been more frank with her about the problems. Now that she knows about them, give her a chance to work on them before you desert her and your children. It's not all about you. You are breaking up your home and your children are going to suffer. They don't need to loose their Dad. 

Have you tried to encourage her to loose weight? Did you try to be intimate with her and she kept rejecting you? Now is not the time to think only of yourself. If she starts doing the things you want her to then you need to stay in the marriage and keep encouraging her, not taking the easy way out.


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## nightmoves8 (Aug 30, 2012)

I agree strongly with crash test above.

I also feel for you being in a sexless/loveless situation.

But her is the thing.
Maybe examine what/how it got that way.
So in a fantasy - what if she actually GOT attractive to you again?
What IF the things you listed as problems and/or reasons were able to be one by one changed for the better?

Here is the thing - the first paragraph by crash test is DAMN accurate. Except i would say the reaity is it is 20 times worse than you think.

Here is another consideration.
Whats to say that you do not wind up in another situation JUST LIKE THIS ONE.

I realize that there are a LOT of posters here that will say get out now. I also understand that a LOT of people did and are FAR happier. So - I am as conflicted with all that as the next person.

But - at some point...MOST marriages go thru an assortment of this and more.
Think this thru about 50 times ....and seriously weight it all.

I understand that you are going thru....


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## HappyGilmore (Jul 20, 2014)

I understand the despair in a loveless marriage. I understand that feeling of falling out of love with your spouse--not because I have ever been there, but because I am human and have empathy for your situation. I empathize especially with people who have tried everything, including _effective communication_, counseling, self help, even up to threatening separation, and the spouse still will not respond.

HOWEVER, it was not fair to her nor your children to hint, hint, hint, all these years, and then hit her--and THEM, by the way--with a freight train like this. _You_ let this happen, _you_ are responsible for _your_ "falling out of love," because _you_ did not act assertively and try to fix it. And now that you have finally been honest with her, and she wants to do anything to fix it, you withhold that chance from her. That is not right, not just, not fair--at all.

Please understand I'm not trying to bust your balls about this, but to open your eyes to your own responsibility and challenge you to accept it before you do something that you will absolutely regret for the rest of your life. My suggestion? Give her a chance. Go all out and fight like you're fighting for your life. Marriage counseling, individual counseling, doing the homework that they assign to you, self-help, everything. At the end, even if you gave it all you have and still the marriage could not be saved, you can at least look in the mirror and say "I did everything I could." You will never regret trying your hardest. At the end of the day, you can put your head on that pillow and sleep peacefully at night knowing that AT LEAST YOU TRIED.

Crashtest is 100% right about this. The family court system is a monster, a multi-million dollar racket that does not care about you or your children. It also has its own agenda, and it will chew you up and spit you out, and do the same thing to your kids. If you want 50-50 custody--good luck with that. IF you get joint legal and physical, and that's a big IF, at the drop of a hat, mom could decide to take the kids and move out of state, and you'll have to fight that--and there goes another $10k (at least) to attorneys. And you'll probably not win. She will get full custody, and you'll get to see your kids only during vacations.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

katsuma said:


> Hi, 34 year old male here. Been with wife since I was 18 and married for last 8 years with two children, 7 & 9.
> 
> Yesterday I told my wife I wanted a separation/divorce.
> 
> ...


 OK.. really.. when I read something like this.. that the wife is suddenly BLINDSIDED.. I think "WHAT [email protected]$%^^" 

How can this be [email protected]# You are in a sexless marriage, (anything less than 10 times a year is SEXLESS!! ).... how does this go unnoticed..and she thinks you are happy?? just fine..

And the not fighting..... BIG MISTAKE... too passive aggressives who Stuff = Apathy which leaves to numbing ..and a towering resentment...it would have been better for you to have a few brawls, getting it out early on in comparison ... so you KNEW how each was feeling...then had some make up sex.. 

Not saying this is the best way (of course not) -but conflict should not be avoided...*"stuffing" is the absolute worse thing a couple can DO*..when they are suffering, and KNOW within the love is being lost, the feelings are draining for each other with every passing day /month...

Those feelings have to go somewhere... this just built a grand canyon in between the 2 of you.. she felt it too.. so her acting like nothing was wrong, it just wouldn't make sense to me.. did she not care about your affection, your attention to her.. as surely this waned something awful while you were sexless ??

Everyone is jumping on you for NOT speaking up.. I do agree with them, you needed to be FAR more assertive to your own needs.. but I also think she is playing stupid.. no way she didn't realize you were drifting apart from her, not missing the obvious lack of emotion and love on your behalf.. why didn't she speak up ??

Or did you put on a good show, still hugging/ kissing, telling her you loved her through all of this.. while dying inside.. (I didn't read every post, so maybe I missed something)...

Always surprised by people being blindsided when something is so OBVIOUSLY wrong in their marriages.. is all..


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> Honesty is a good thing, but holding all this sh*t in for years and then hitting his wife over the head w/ the divorce bat out of the blue is just plain wrong.


Hey, I know what your saying and i agree with what your saying, but this man should not stay in the marriage if its not what he really wants, so this guy may have not gone about things the right way, but staying in this relationship if its not what he really wants is wrong, for him and her.

I would not want my husband to stay with me if he did not love me, I deserve more..... if he woke up one morning and told me i was not what he wanted anymore and he could not see things working out between us i would have to accept it.... It would hurt like hell, but it would hurt more him staying because he felt he owed me something......

We communicate tho, if my husband has a problem with me then he tells me..... This is what the problems are here.... Lack of communication.

I do not think you should stay with someone if its really not what you want, but of course he need to be 100% its what he really wants.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

Happilymarried25 said:


> You should have been more frank with her about the problems. Now that she knows about them, give her a chance to work on them before you desert her and your children. It's not all about you. You are breaking up your home and your children are going to suffer. They don't need to loose their Dad.
> 
> Have you tried to encourage her to loose weight? Did you try to be intimate with her and she kept rejecting you? Now is not the time to think only of yourself. If she starts doing the things you want her to then you need to stay in the marriage and keep encouraging her, not taking the easy way out.


Children do not always suffer tho. You hear it a lot, people cant break up their relationship because of the children, but people should never stay in a relationship because of them, sometimes it works out better for them in the long run, it did with mine.

The children never really lose their dad, their dad will always be their dad..... but living apart.... it happens a lot and people cope very well..... children should not be a reason people stay together, I dread to think where my life would be now if i stayed with my older boys dad.... I am remarried and my husband is a great step dad, and the older boys still have their dad..... hes not a good one, but still their dad..


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

Katsuma,

Sorry for your troubles, but I think you're being a quitter. You "hinted at troubles" are you kidding me? Do you think marriages just run on auto pilot and everything takes care of itself? Marriage is damn hard work, but well worth it and I think your post oozes with passive aggressiveness and entitlement. 

Your wife has faults, yes we get that, but you blind sided her. That was unfair and mean spirited. Shame on you.

You are willing to put your wife and kids through hell because you are unwilling to put in the regular effort to nurture the marriage. Selfish.

If you want to resurrect your love for your wife you need to serve her in the capacity of an awesome husband. Love follows service. Don't ask me why, it just does. 

I suggest you apologize to your wife and ask for her partnership in a regimen of marriage caretaking. You both would benefit from some marriage building counseling. You feel discouraged now, but with some effort you can turn this around. Good luck.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Revamped said:


> You'll be divorced, living on your own, seeing your kids every other weekend...
> 
> She, on the other hand, will be devastated for about a year. That will give her time to figure out how to lose the weight and gain confidence in herself to date a man who will also see your kids every other weekend, possibly eventually live with them...
> 
> ...


A common misconception is that the dad gets the short end of the custody stick. Who is to say he won't get a full 50% custody? I did, despite my ex's lies and hiring of the most expensive shark lawyer around.

Unfortunately, I think the OP's partner shares this misconception. It is her comment that he is not fighting for her or the kids that signals this.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

katsuma said:


> Hi, 34 year old male here. Been with wife since I was 18 and married for last 8 years with two children, 7 & 9.
> 
> Yesterday I told my wife I wanted a separation/divorce.
> 
> ...


I agree that the OP should have been absolutely clear about any marital issues before asking for a divorce. But, he's been beaten up for that already and I have nothing to add.

However, his wife's statement bothers me. He said she is upset that *he is not fighting for her *or the kids. That attitude indicates a bigger problem.

It looks like several years that their sex life has been poor, among other issues. Even though the OP might not have told her "the poor sex and your overall distance have endangered our marriage", it is unlikely he had not been unmistakably unhappy several times over the years.

So, that begs a question - why is *she not fighting for him*? Is she unhappy with him as well? Or, maybe she is complacent as a wife and expected him to take a back seat? Devastated does not have to mean "I thought we were both so happy and now he's leaving". It can mean "I thought he was a good family man but turns out he is like all those other guys you hear about".

If the OP is willing, I'd like to hear whether she acknowledges he is justifiably unhappy and is willing to be better in bed while addressing any other issues.


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## katsuma (Aug 17, 2014)

Thank you all for your replies. I feel I need to clear a few things up and try to answer some of your questions.

First off, I have not had an affair and am not about to have one. There is nobody else.

Secondly, a few people have mentioned passive aggressiveness in the form of hints. We did have frank discussions a few years back. I openly told her I needed more intimacy and that her weight gain was not helping the situation and that I would like her to be more active, for both our sakes. She was upset that I felt this way and tried swimming for a couple of weeks. Unfortunately it didn't last - it's just not her. Following this we did rev things up in the bedroom a bit, but it seemed somewhat forced. This was followed by several months of rejection when I tried to initiate. She said this was down to tiredness with work, kids, family life etc - all things I can sympathise with, however it quickly got to the point where I simply stopped asking and would wait for her to be in the mood, which was rare and even when we tried, it never felt like it ought to. 

So the last year or two I suppose has been the 'hinting' period and by hints I mean suggesting things like going for a walk, cycling, etc. I think one of my flaws is that I am very non-confrontational. This is part of my character and something I know can cover up feelings. It's probably one reason we hardly ever fight, which has both benefits and drawbacks.

These last few weeks I have become quite withdrawn, not even wanting to kiss her on the cheek when I come in from work and for some months she's spent more time sleeping with the kids. I think she sensed a problem and has actually tried to initiate and make some real effort in the last week as things came to a head. But I don't know, it just doesn't seem genuine somehow and honestly just made me cringe. I know she loves me dearly, but I'm just not feeling it. 

That said, I am taking on board comments about trying to save it. I know that I am the one in control of the family's fate here and that is something I should not take lightly.

About the kids. My wife has said that she would rather live separate lives in the same house than see the kids without their dad and have to break the news to them. This made me feel awful, but how practical is this really? How long can that kind of setup possibly last?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kvothe_The_Raven (Apr 6, 2014)

katsuma said:


> So the last year or two I suppose has been the 'hinting' period and by hints I mean suggesting things like going for a walk, cycling, etc. I think one of my flaws is that I am very non-confrontational. This is part of my character and something I know can cover up feelings. It's probably one reason we hardly ever fight, which has both benefits and drawbacks.


Don't hint. Just *do*. Just get the bikes out and say you're both going out and going to have fun. Get a bit more "alpha" and spontaneous. Be direct. This is important when you're having frank discussions too. Be direct, but kind.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

katsuma said:


> That said, I am taking on board comments about trying to save it. I know that I am the one in control of the family's fate here and that is something I should not take lightly.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do not believe you alone control family's fate. It takes two people to make a marriage work. All that attitude will do is put extra guilt on your shoulders to either stay where you are not happy or feel burdened if you do go through with this and leave.

Sure, you could choose to stay and be unhappy. At the same time, if your wife had not neglected your needs for years you would not be in this situation to begin with. I agree that staying in the same house is a poor solution. You want that intimate attention she tries to avoid - how would you manage that? 

Your wife's goal is not to try to make you happy. It is to avoid disturbing the routine (which would mean you both don't get to see the children every day). Also, if your wife is that non-sexual and introverted, she will have a hard time finding someone else to partner up with who she would find acceptable. If she were to find someone, she'd probably be out (I've BTDT).

Again, note that if keeping a happy relationship was your wife's priority, she would have (at least) found a way to cheerfully meet your needs at some point all these years, but she didn't and prioritized herself instead. Why on earth would you hold yourself to a higher standand than that just for her?


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

katsuma said:


> Thank you all for your replies. I feel I need to clear a few things up and try to answer some of your questions.
> 
> First off, I have not had an affair and am not about to have one. There is nobody else.
> 
> ...


From what your saying it seems your wife maybe loves you, but is not in love with you, and it does happen.... she Loves you maybe because your father of her children.... could be habit... Its been known..... shes used to things the way things are, and its obvious she does not want change.

Its obvious from what you say that shes a great mother to your children, and they are the priority here, which is very good, Its ideal for her, but its not for you, you need more....... which is understandable, I love my children, but i also love my husband, and his happiness is just as important as my children's happiness... were a package.

It sounds like she has made the effort, but then falls back to the norm.....

Its a tough situation for both of you.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

katsuma said:


> About the kids. My wife has said that she would rather live separate lives in the same house than see the kids without their dad and have to break the news to them. This made me feel awful, but how practical is this really? How long can that kind of setup possibly last?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't see a scenario like that working. You would be putting your life on hold..as it's not like you can bring dates home or stay out without hurting her. And what would that teach the kids about how to live in a loving relationship.

My suggestion is you get a place close by so the kids can spend equal time in both households. This makes it possible for the kids to easily get to school from either home and both of you will be close to them for school pageants, sporting events etc. Kids should have both parents in their lives. Ideally in a loving relationship but failing that sharing time between two healthy households.


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## HappyGilmore (Jul 20, 2014)

katsuma said:


> Thank you all for your replies. I feel I need to clear a few things up and try to answer some of your questions.
> 
> First off, I have not had an affair and am not about to have one. There is nobody else.
> 
> ...


*Hmmm, such an arrangement would require what they call an "amicable divorce." Much like the Yeti, Sasquatch, and Loch Ness Monster, I have not yet seen it, so I don't know if it exists.

Katsuma, she may be saying this now, but divorce does funny things to people. It turns former lovers into sworn enemies, who may fantasize daily about digging a hole 6 feet deep and burying their former spouse alive. Feelings are hurt, and lapses in judgement occur. People do evil, nasty things to one another in this process. I wouldn't trust that she will stick by this if you end up divorcing. Just saying...*


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

You mentioned you are "very non-confrontational." I know a woman who is this way and she held it in for a few years and then when it finally exploded it completely nuked the entire family. There was no controlling it and it was a meltdown of epic proportions. 

The tragedy was that it was so avoidable, but this gal was too stubborn and afraid to learn and implement healthy relationship techniques to keep the pressure valve functioning. This woman literally held years of her husbands offenses against him as if he did all of it during the last week. The poor guy was actually a decent husband, but a dysfunctional wife ruined his life. Talk about getting blind sided! Don't make the same mistake. Good luck.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Don't try leading separate lives while still married and living together. Either both of you need to make a major effort to make your marriage work or you need to get a divorce. Leading separate lives presumably means having sex with other people while still married and that's easier said than tolerated.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Thanks for the update OP.

I'm not saying you should stay for the sake of the children - you shouldn't, you should only stay married if you really love your wife.

What I am saying, is that you should try everything in your power to save your marriage and keep your family intact, before you even think about separation/divorce. Divorce may seem like a routine thing these days, but the reality is that it's an incredibly traumatic, devastating experience for all involved. Particularly so for any children involved - it changes who they are. Think very carefully before you go down that road.

That's what I meant in my original post. You and your wife may well decide that divorce is what's best for your family, and that may be the final outcome. BUT you both owe it to each other and your children to try everything humanly possible to fix this. Then if it comes to that, you can walk away knowing you gave it your best shot. 

Could you say that now? You don't have to answer here, but something to think about.


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## lancaster (Dec 2, 2013)

OP I think leaving is the right thing to do. No matter what, your wife now knows how you feel. 

There is every chance she will meet somebody who will love her the way she deserves. I think one of the worst things that can happen for children is to see their parents in a loveless marriage. I am totally against such marriages. They are a horrible example of a marriage, which the children may follow in their own lives later on. I think divorce is preferable to that.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Always surprised by people being blindsided when something is so OBVIOUSLY wrong in their marriages.. is all..


If she is happy, then she would naturally expect that he is too. Apparently some people are happy without sex. Some people seem to think that sex dwindles over the years and don't recognize that their partner may not feel the same way. If they don't talk about it, how would she know?


melw74 said:


> Hey, I know what your saying and i agree with what your saying, but this man should not stay in the marriage if its not what he really wants, so this guy may have not gone about things the right way, but staying in this relationship if its not what he really wants is wrong, for him and her.
> 
> I would not want my husband to stay with me if he did not love me, I deserve more..... if he woke up one morning and told me i was not what he wanted anymore and he could not see things working out between us i would have to accept it.... It would hurt like hell, but it would hurt more him staying because he felt he owed me something......
> 
> ...


This is such a hopeless point of view. He was in love with her before. Perhaps they need to bring back the spark and start again.



katsuma said:


> So the last year or two I suppose has been the 'hinting' period and by hints I mean suggesting things like going for a walk, cycling, etc. I think one of my flaws is that I am very non-confrontational. This is part of my character and something I know can cover up feelings. It's probably one reason we hardly ever fight, which has both benefits and drawbacks.


This is an issue that you will take into any relationship. You are not going to find a perfect woman. Eventually things you don’t like will probably build up in any relationship you have if you don’t do something about it.



katsuma said:


> These last few weeks I have become quite withdrawn, not even wanting to kiss her on the cheek when I come in from work and for some months she's spent more time sleeping with the kids. I think she sensed a problem and has actually tried to initiate and make some real effort in the last week as things came to a head. But I don't know, it just doesn't seem genuine somehow and honestly just made me cringe. I know she loves me dearly, but I'm just not feeling it.


 You have lost attraction to your wife, so now that she has started initiating you realize that you don’t want her anymore and want a divorce. 



katsuma said:


> That said, I am taking on board comments about trying to save it. I know that I am the one in control of the family's fate here and that is something I should not take lightly.
> 
> About the kids. My wife has said that she would rather live separate lives in the same house than see the kids without their dad and have to break the news to them. This made me feel awful, but how practical is this really? How long can that kind of setup possibly last?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is just more of what is happening now. You are living separate lives as it is. That is what needs to be corrected. You are not happy with things as they are. She suggests that you are not willing to fight for your marriage and family, but she doesn’t seem to be either. 
I recommend:
Tell her flat out what you want from her and that you expect her to start doing things that build your relationship.
Ask her what she needs from you and start doing those things to build your relationship.
Ask her to give you sex twice per week for two months. This should start some hormones moving and get both of you into a better frame of mind. This is something that you have to make time for. It isn’t something that happens is there is time. This is something that you make time for. If you are too busy with other things for sex, you are too busy – period. You make sex a priority. This should increase your positive feelings.
Today, order this book, No More Mr. Nice Guy http://www.amazon.com/No-More-Mr-Ni...408379090&sr=1-1&keywords=no+more+mr+nice+guy Read it and implement many of the suggestions. I would not recommend the sex fast, as you need to get off the sex fast. This book is about how to get your needs met in appropriate ways.
After you finish No More Mr. Nice Guy, read His Needs, Her Needs http://www.amazon.com/His-Needs-Her...s+her+needs+building+an+affair+proof+marriage and work through it together. 
You can purchase both books at the same time. It should only take you a couple of days to read the first one, then you can start working on some of the recommendations in it while you are reading the second book with your wife. I recommend that you two read it aloud and work through it together.
It is far better to work through the marriage that you currently have to see if you can make it work than to divorce and end up just as miserable because you take the same issues into the next relationship.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Actions speak louder than words. If she's not all over you trying to up the intimacy 100x then, well, you have your answer. She's fighting for the status quo, not for change and improvement. 

By the way, break ups always involve some hurt feelings. There's no way to do it while keeping her happy.


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

Happilymarried25 said:


> You should have been more frank with her about the problems. Now that she knows about them, give her a chance to work on them before you desert her and your children.


I would offer to pay for a gym membership and a personal trainer. Maybe even a dietician if she is very overweight.

Take her to a lingerie shop and have her try on kinky lingerie, and tell her which ones you like, then buy them for her.

Arrange somewhere to drop the little monsters for the weekend so you can try some romantic stuff. Then try to re-bond with her. There were probably a thousand and one slights and arguments you had had...but you need to let them go...water under the bridge. Start fresh, and maybe give it 6 months.

If she is still a fat slob around the house then, time to leave. If you can not stand being around her, again...time to leave. But I am hoping you will find that little woman you married long ago...hiding inside.


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

btw, some hormone replacement therapy can go a long way to getting her VERY interested in sex again. If she is losing the weight and trying, maybe that would make it all work.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

You know, it's kind of like shooting yourself in the foot when in the same conversation you tell your wife you need more sex AND she needs to shed some pounds. IDK, maybe men can handle that better than women and that's why you mentioned both.

Which makes me wonder, as Lila asked, if your wife had been happily participating in regular sex, how much would her weight really bother you? Conversely, if she lost a bunch of weight but her sex drive remains in neutral, how happy would you be with the relationship at that point?

Many women have responsive desire. They don't have a need for sex very often. This doesn't have to mean that they refuse sex because those same women who are not in the mood for sex can be aroused to enjoy sex anyway.

You're seeking help too late. But that doesn't necessarily mean your marriage is over for good. YOU have a lot of work to do. All those years your love was dying and you didn't make the relationship a priority, or at least not important enough to throw some weight into your requests for better intimacy.

You are a walk away husband. As such, you are likely doomed to make the same mistakes again.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

katsuma said:


> Thank you all for your replies. I feel I need to clear a few things up and try to answer some of your questions.
> 
> First off, I have not had an affair and am not about to have one. There is nobody else.
> 
> ...


Assuming you speak the truth about not having an affair, I think you are doing great.

Always people come here with partners who are in affairs, or are later to be discovered to having an affair. The big judgement by Tammers is then: 'I wish they did not cheat, but be a man (Man/Wife) and divorce first, then have a relation outside the marriage'.

Now that is exactly what you are doing. So that is great!

Another point is if there can be done something about the problems, so you might not need to divorce. But your actions are very healthy now, and I hope you can get clarity about what to do. If there are children, I would say, take a good look if she does not want to change for their benefit, because I totally agree with your complaints.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> Y
> ou know, it's kind of like shooting yourself in the foot when in the same conversation you tell your wife you need more sex AND she needs to shed some pounds.


This is a good point, especially since she now knows you are not attracted to her either. Please pay attention to whether she does anything to make herself more attractive and encourage her in that. Take notice and appreciate her efforts. Encouraging people in what they are doing right is one of the most effective ways to get them interested in continuing that behavior.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

I think it's worth trying to work it out, especially since you have kids. Your problems can be fixed.

Don't press her to be more attractive. You're asking her to have sex with you even though she doesn't feel like it. You need to at least meet her halfway and have sex with her even though you don't find her as attractive. Can you see that it's kind of the same thing? That way you both are trying to create sex in an environment where you both may not necessarily be feeling sexual. 

See if she will have sex on a regular basis, like every Saturday night. That way you both know when it will be and there won't be hurt feelings from rejection or pressure at other times. Appreciate her effort, whatever it is. Maybe she'll be just going through the motions at first, but if she doesn't feel pressured, she'll likely be able to enjoy it more.

Ask her to meet some goals for keeping the house. If she wants you to stay, you need to see some concrete effort from her. Keeping the house is just a matter of doing the work. She doesn't have to like it--she just has to make the effort.

Have you read No More Mr Nice Guy? Your actions remind me of a Nice Guy. You keep things internal, don't clearly state your desires, and then drop an emotional bomb because the other person didn't meet your secret expectations. Take a look at the website and see if it describes your personality.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I don't get why he would consider compromising at all at this point. I mean, he's done. Ready to move out. Finished. If she wants him back then she can do some heavy lifting, otherwise just go. Compromising, meeting her half way, whatever, is just a recipe for getting back to the same ole status quo. The love is gone at this point, and further attempts to settle for what he's been getting is just a waste of more time.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Because marriage and family have meaning. Because it's better to fix something that is broken rather than going out and getting something new, then throwing it away when it is broken. Because he made vows to his wife and vows have meaning.
As a woman who has been married for 30 years, I can say that marriage can be hard, but fixing what is wrong is worth the time, energy, and attention it takes. It is important to be able to rely on each other and be there through the tough times. It is important for children to grow up surround by love and believing in it. It is also much better for children to grow up in an intact home where their parents honor each other and work through things rather than giving up when they are getting exactly what they want.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Actions speak louder than words. If she's not all over you trying to up the intimacy 100x then, well, you have your answer. She's fighting for the status quo, not for change and improvement.
> 
> By the way, break ups always involve some hurt feelings. There's no way to do it while keeping her happy.


I have to agree the OP states he does not love her anymore.... Hes been honest and to me it is quite clear, I cant see what staying with her will achieve, It will just prolong all the agony, I think hes done the right thing by her by being honest... Its unfair on them both if he stays for the wrong reasons.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

You are what we call a WAH: a Walkaway Husband. 

I call it cowardly. You've sat on your thumbs and said nothing all these years and now you are ready to dump a good woman and mother because you are afraid of confrontation and the work it will take to get your marriage back on track. 

You have no conception how ugly, demeaning, depressing and devastating divorce is. You see it as freedom. It is anything but that my friend. 

Man up, get a marriage counselor set up. Sit your wife down without the kids around and tell her where you are at. Tell her your live has run dry, she no longer attracts you, and you are ready to split. But you want yo give the marriage and her one more big try. 

Do t throw a marriage away over issues that can be fixed. Now, if she cheated on you or switched teams? Well those kind of things can't be fixed sometimes. Health, intimacy, housekeeping, marital values....those things can be fixed with work and compromise. 

Don't throw your marriage away. That's not what a man does.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

melw74 said:


> I have to agree the OP states he does not love her anymore.... Hes been honest and to me it is quite clear, I cant see what staying with her will achieve, It will just prolong all the agony, I think hes done the right thing by her by being honest... Its unfair on them both if he stays for the wrong reasons.


It's this attitude that is destroying marriages and families all over the world.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I don't get why he would consider compromising at all at this point. I mean, he's done. Ready to move out. Finished. If she wants him back then she can do some heavy lifting, otherwise just go. Compromising, meeting her half way, whatever, is just a recipe for getting back to the same ole status quo. The love is gone at this point, and further attempts to settle for what he's been getting is just a waste of more time.


I'm surprised at you.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> I'm surprised at you.


Nothing I said is incompatible with what you said above. If she wants to salvage the marriage then she can start working on real change. He deserves to be happy just as much as anyone, and settling for the status quo is not going to cut it.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> It's this attitude that is destroying marriages and families all over the world.


Oh for god sake.... there is nothing wrong with my attitude, Just because i do not share the same opinion than you..... sorry

I have a very good attitude to marriage that is why i am happily married, but i would not like it very much if i found out that my husband was just with me because he was being forced to love me or stay with me because others think he should....

I want to be with someone who wants to be with me.... Not because they feel sorry for me, or they think they have to stay with me because they're obliged to do so.....

I could say its attitudes like yours that keeps people in loveless marriages... and more, but i wont.... because its your opinion... and your allowed one, Just like i am.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

I think it's worth working on this marriage because she may not have realized how critical things were. That doesn't excuse it, but now that she knows, she may make significant changes which could turn the marriage around. Might as well see if things can get better before calling it off.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

melw74 said:


> Oh for god sake.... there is nothing wrong with my attitude, Just because i do not share the same opinion than you..... sorry
> 
> I have a very good attitude to marriage that is why i am happily married, but i would not like it very much if i found out that my husband was just with me because he was being forced to love me or stay with me because others think he should....
> 
> ...


But he needs to give her one more chance. If she fails to take advantage and do what he needs her to do? You bet...he should go for D. I don't agree with people staying in stale, loveless relationships, but he shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

melw74 said:


> I have to agree the OP states he does not love her anymore.... Hes been honest and to me it is quite clear, I cant see what staying with her will achieve, It will just prolong all the agony, I think hes done the right thing by her by being honest... Its unfair on them both if he stays for the wrong reasons.


This is a pro-marriage site. 
People fall in and out of love all the time, in the same marriage. They work it out.
I think it shows lack of character to not try to work things out just because someone has let their love die.
It is highly likely that divorce will not solve the unhappy feelings, but staying and working it out will.

"Conducted by a team of leading family scholars headed by University of Chicago sociologist Linda Waite, the study found no evidence that unhappily married adults who divorced were typically any happier than unhappily married people who stayed married.
Even more dramatically, the researchers also found that two-thirds of unhappily married spouses who stayed married reported that their marriages were happy five years later. In addition, the most unhappy marriages reported the most dramatic turnarounds: among those who rated their marriages as very unhappy, almost eight out of 10 who avoided divorce were happily married five years later." lifeissues.net | Does Divorce Make People Happy?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

CynthiaDe said:


> This is a pro-marriage site.


Thanks for letting us know what our opinions are allowed to be. I must have missed your name on the letter head.

By the way, this site is certainly not a 'stay married at all costs' site. People are advised on this site to divorce hundreds of times every month. Nobody has suggested he cheat or anything like that. In face, people are advised on this website every day to leave and divorce before cheating.....then when someone does it he's chastised for walking away? I see that as highly hypocritical.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> But he needs to give her one more chance. If she fails to take advantage and do what he needs her to do? You bet...he should go for D. I don't agree with people staying in stale, loveless relationships, but he shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water.


Yes, you could be right it may be the right thing to do. All i am saying is that if he feels at the end of the day he does not love her should he stay just because its what everyone else wants him to do?... All i am doing is going by what the man has said.

I was just a bit pissed as you were kinda saying my attitude was bad..... But believe it or not, I have quite a good attitude.

Some people do stay in relationships sometimes for all the wrong reasons..... and they do end up resenting their partner for it.... I have seen it before.... 

What happens if he stays for all the wrong reasons and then he succumbs to the desire to cheat on his wife?.... would she deserve that?..... He did say he has thought about it.


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## learning to love myself (Apr 18, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Nothing I said is incompatible with what you said above. If she wants to salvage the marriage then she can start working on real change. He deserves to be happy just as much as anyone, and settling for the status quo is not going to cut it.


I know when my husband says I'm fat and need to work on it and he is not attracted to me and then initiates sex it gets me all hot and bothered.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

CynthiaDe said:


> This is a pro-marriage site.
> People fall in and out of love all the time, in the same marriage. They work it out.
> I think it shows lack of character to not try to work things out just because someone has let their love die.
> It is highly likely that divorce will not solve the unhappy feelings, but staying and working it out will.
> ...


Oh dear.... This is a forum called TALK ABOUT MARRIAGE.... its not a site called Stay married no matter what happens site.... 

I give advice and opinions for what i believe in... I do not give advice to keep posters happy, or lead them into a force sense of hope... Or in fear of saying something that could be upsetting to hear......Everything does not always lead to a favorable outcome for everyone.... I gave my opinion on this thread, It may not be one that everybody agrees with, but its mine.


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## learning to love myself (Apr 18, 2013)

I agree no one should stay in a unhappy marriage.

However, Marriage takes work and by avoiding confrontation You allowed the marriage to dwindle. (believe me I did this)

Did she truly know when you confronted her about her weight and the lack of sex that you were working on disconnecting from her thus making easier for you to leave? 

If my husband came to me and said, "If you don't lose some weight and we don't start to connect better I will leave you"! I would do everything in my power to change things.

Now if you did just this and she didn't take you serious, then this is on her as well and maybe its best to divorce and let her find someone who will love her just the way she is.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

melw74 said:


> Oh dear.... This is a forum called TALK ABOUT MARRIAGE.... its not a site called Stay married no matter what happens site....
> 
> I give advice and opinions for what i believe in... I do not give advice to keep posters happy, or lead them into a force sense of hope... Or in fear of saying something that could be upsetting to hear......Everything does not always lead to a favorable outcome for everyone.... I gave my opinion on this thread, It may not be one that everybody agrees with, but its mine.


No one has advocated him staying married at all costs. 

What I advocate is that he gird his loins and actually try, hopefully with his wife's help, to save the relationship. I agree she needs to get of her ass and lose weight, deal with her sexual issues, and stop being a slob. These are things she can change. Conversely, the OP can use the time for some hard self reflection: how has he failed her as a husband? Has he ignored her, verbally abused her without meaning to do so, does he have a bad temper, is he overly critical of her? He needs to explore this, and if he has shortcomings, he needs to work on them. 

Seems to me he just wants the easy way out. That's the attitude I was referring to. It's not an attitude I think we should encourage.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Apparently pointing out that this is a pro-marriage site gets people riled up. I don't see why pointing out the obvious is offensive to anyone. Staying married at all costs does not even come close the describing this thread.
There is no abuse going on in the marriage. It has hit a dull spot. That is no reason to walk out, especially when the things he has complained about are correctable.


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

Correctable...

At whose cost?

Scenerio:

He says, "Hon, you're a fat pig. I am not attracted to you anymore. I physically cannot get a hardon because you are so big.

She says, "Oh my goodness, I didn't realize that. I'll work on that."


She drops one hundred pounds.


She comes to him, says, "Hon, I'm not attracted to you anymore. You see, my ass may get smaller to bigger at any point, but you are ALL ass. See ya..."



Game over.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

learning to love myself said:


> I know when my husband says I'm fat and need to work on it and he is not attracted to me and then initiates sex it gets me all hot and bothered.


Haha. This made me laugh.

My husband would criticize and then wonder why I wanted to keep my shirt on during sex.

BTW, my husband learned to STFU and he gets laid a lot more now.


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## jmiller2020 (Sep 3, 2013)

I think you should read His Needs Her Need out loud with her.

When I first developed this neck condition I sort of gave up on working out. My husband and I love to lift weights and go on workout dates so this was a HUGE culture shock to our marriage. 

One day after I had softened up (quite a bit) he gently asked, how my workouts were going. I exploded. I thought he was an insensitive jerk and every other name in the book. I had bought into the whole "he needs to love me for me not the size of my jeans" movement.

It sort of broke us a little or set us back. Until for fun I started reading His Needs Her Needs and coming from the author I was able to understand the importance of physical appearance-just not from my (bleep of a husband) 

The point:

I realized he was not trying to be a superficial a$$, he was simply asking for what he needed and that was a wife that gave a damn to still try for him. 

So...

I returned to the gym and guess what? Not only did our marriage get back on track but my neck pain decreased exponentially

You need to try man. This is not fair. Listen to the post where your wife drops the 100 pounds and lets the new guy move in with your kids. I don't know how old your kids are but the image of your son learning how to play catch with dad #2 while you pull in the drive (picking him up for your weekend) would just kill you. 

There is no explanation as to why we fall in and out of love but one thing I know for sure is that we all do it. Whether we take our eye off the ball for too long or just take each other or time for-granted it happens. Leaving is not how you correct it. You need to do some soul searching, as someone put it, and figure out why you took your eye off in the first place. That way you can keep better tabs on the marriage you already have or at least be aware of yourself for the next.

Peace


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

CynthiaDe said:


> Apparently pointing out that this is a pro-marriage site gets people riled up. I don't see why pointing out the obvious is offensive to anyone. Staying married at all costs does not even come close the describing this thread.
> There is no abuse going on in the marriage. It has hit a dull spot. That is no reason to walk out, especially when the things he has complained about are correctable.


Not riled up at all, actually i was personally very calm..... I am very pro marriage, like i say that is why i am married, but staying in an unhappy marriage is not always the way to go.... ALL the time... and sometimes staying in an unhappy marriage.... Is the worse option.... Not saying it will be for this Man, maybe staying and giving it another go is the right way, but maybe its not...

Yes its hit a dull spot, I just hope this dull spot does not cause the OP to look else where... which hes stated he has actually felt like doing.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Hinting around? Sitting around passively hoping she fixes her issues? WOW. Way to understate that regret too. I normally feel sympathy for those who aren't getting the love and affection they need out of their marrage, but not if you are going to sit back and hope that she "get's the hint". It's a pretty stupid way for a marriage to end. You could have done more. A whole lot more. It's hard to fix a problem if the other person doesn't know a problem is there.


Look at the people who liked this posts. Swap the genders and imagine the advice.


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## katsuma (Aug 17, 2014)

Hello again,

Thank you for all your comments and advice so far. It really is helpful to hear different viewpoints. I should mention that I'm from the UK as there have been some references to the US legal system.

We talked again last night. Initially I had only told her that I was no longer attracted to her and had fallen out of love. This time however, I decided not to shy away but tell her without any shadow of a doubt that her weight gain was an issue for me and that it had contributed to the loss of my love and attraction towards her. She flipped - went berserk and told me to pack my bags. She has never had a problem with her weight and is a very confident person all round. I am probably the first person to ever challenge her about it so wasn't sure what to expect. She was, as I hate myself for, extremely disappointed that I had not raised it earlier and let it get to this point. As I said, we did have a very frank discussion about it a few years ago where I basically said I needed more sex and for her to lose weight, but she said she assumed it was no longer a problem because I hadn't mentioned it more recently.

Anyway, her reaction was seemingly knee-jerk and in the morning she apologised and said it was something she was willing to work on. The thing is, I feel like I'm asking her to do something that I know she cannot sustain and will almost definitely lead to resentment towards me in the future, as she openly said in her moment of anger how I could let something as superficial as her weight and body shape lead to the downfall of our marriage. She said that _I_ enjoyed outdoor activities, etc. while _she_ was more of an intellectual and preferred to be at home reading, etc. Perhaps that's where we differ, I don't know.

She asked if she lost the weight would I love her. I couldn't answer this question, because I genuinely do not know at this point. I said I was willing to do more as a couple and work together on it, e.g. go for walks together, swimming, etc, but I just can't help feeling I may be setting her up for further disappointment because I honestly feel nothing in that sense, and even if I try to imagine her progress in 6 months, I can't at this point see myself feeling any different. Perhaps it's something that only time can tell.

She did say one thing that surprised me - that the children growing up is such a short time in our lives and that she would be able to concentrate on 'us' more when they were all grown up. I'm trying not to read into that comment too deeply but it kind of irked me.

I'm not sure there's any benefit in mentioning this, but I'm going to throw it out there anyway - I am 6'3" and weigh just under 200lb. My wife is 5'3" and weighs about 185lb.

Right now I feel like I should give it a another go, but I also feel like I'd be doing it for the children's sake and that I'd be giving my wife false hope.

She is such a good wife and mother in every other sense. I know I would be throwing all that away and that's difficult to contemplate; but what do you do when you feel nothing? I think the things I would miss most of all about her are the companionship, friendship, memories, etc. I cannot imagine ever meeting anyone that will know me as well as she does (what do I expect after 17 years).

I've thought about moving out for a week to see how I feel and give myself time to think deeply about things. I this a good idea?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

katsuma said:


> We talked again last night. Initially I had only told her that I was no longer attracted to her and had fallen out of love. This time however, I decided not to shy away but tell her without any shadow of a doubt that her weight gain was an issue for me and that it had contributed to the loss of my love and attraction towards her. She flipped - went berserk and told me to pack my bags. She has never had a problem with her weight and is a very confident person all round. I am probably the first person to ever challenge her about it so wasn't sure what to expect. She was, as I hate myself for, extremely disappointed that I had not raised it earlier and let it get to this point. As I said, we did have a very frank discussion about it a few years ago where I basically said I needed more sex and for her to lose weight, but she said she assumed it was no longer a problem because I hadn't mentioned it more recently.
> 
> Anyway, her reaction was seemingly knee-jerk and in the morning she apologised and said it was something she was willing to work on. The thing is, I feel like I'm asking her to do something that I know she cannot sustain and will almost definitely lead to resentment towards me in the future, as she openly said in her moment of anger how I could let something as superficial as her weight and body shape lead to the downfall of our marriage. She said that _I_ enjoyed outdoor activities, etc. while _she_ was more of an intellectual and preferred to be at home reading, etc. Perhaps that's where we differ, I don't know.


Oh course she flipped out. You called her fat.  Even if she is fat, no one likes to hear that. It is good that she calmed down about it and accepted your comments as valid.
Weight loss can be maintained, but it requires a lifestyle change. It's not usually about eating less, but it is about eating differently. Less grain, almost no refined sugar and healthy fats. Exercise gives you a better looking and healthier body, but it doesn't necessarily improve weight loss.



katsuma said:


> She asked if she lost the weight would I love her. I couldn't answer this question, because I genuinely do not know at this point. I said I was willing to do more as a couple and work together on it, e.g. go for walks together, swimming, etc, but I just can't help feeling I may be setting her up for further disappointment because I honestly feel nothing in that sense, and even if I try to imagine her progress in 6 months, I can't at this point see myself feeling any different. Perhaps it's something that only time can tell.


If she is having sex with you regularly, this should improve. You will be much more likely to be attracted to her body when she is using it to bring you pleasure. I would try for 3 times per week. This should be the priority. Everything else is scheduled around it, like you schedule your life around food and sleep. Sex is one of those things. You need it in order to have a healthy marriage.
Let her know this and that it is not an option. It is part of your personal health and well-being. I really think if you two are having sex again on a regular basis things will greatly improve. Sexual pleasure and satisfaction is not really dependent upon what a person looks like as much as it depends on how you feel while making love to that person. People change and bodies change over time, but sex should still be great unless it's to the point of physically disabling.
If you aren't getting sex and your wife is also gaining weight, it can become an excuse for not feeling interested as a way of dealing with the rejection. This could be more of the issue.



katsuma said:


> She did say one thing that surprised me - that the children growing up is such a short time in our lives and that she would be able to concentrate on 'us' more when they were all grown up. I'm trying not to read into that comment too deeply but it kind of irked me.


Marriages don't last if they aren't cared for. The family is not healthy if the marriage isn't healthy. The marriage is part of the priority structure in the family or it will fail. This can be changed and can completely change your family into healthier. The core of the family is the marriage, so when that is not properly nurtured, it is bad for the entire family.




katsuma said:


> I'm not sure there's any benefit in mentioning this, but I'm going to throw it out there anyway - I am 6'3" and weigh just under 200lb. My wife is 5'3" and weighs about 185lb.


I think this means that you feel like you are holding up your end of the bargain, but she isn't. That can be frustrating, but again, if she is meeting your other needs that should help.
Many weight loss programs can make things worse, so it is important to get onto a sensible eating plan that includes very little grain along with almost no refined sugar and adds a lot of vegetables to compensate. This is the biggest factor to long term healthy weight maintenance.



katsuma said:


> Right now I feel like I should give it a another go, but I also feel like I'd be doing it for the children's sake and that I'd be giving my wife false hope.


That's okay. It really is. You are unlikely to be happier if you divorce. I suspect you will feel worse. If you work with your wife to change the way your family eats and you are working on the other issues in your marriage, you will probably find that things begin to feel better and your view of her improves.



katsuma said:


> She is such a good wife and mother in every other sense. I know I would be throwing all that away and that's difficult to contemplate; but what do you do when you feel nothing? I think the things I would miss most of all about her are the companionship, friendship, memories, etc. I cannot imagine ever meeting anyone that will know me as well as she does (what do I expect after 17 years).


She is your best friend. You have a love for her, but you are not in love with her right now. That happens often in marriages, but it can be resolved with patience. You two have stopped nurturing your marriage. This is the result of that. It is important for her to understand these concepts.


katsuma said:


> I've thought about moving out for a week to see how I feel and give myself time to think deeply about things. I this a good idea?


You do not need to move out to think. I think it is a bad idea. Why not institute the suggestions on how to reignite the flame?


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Someday you will look back on your treatment of your wife and feel remorse. 

Your kids will also suffer, but I do hope you will try to help her with her pain.

I do hope you think about your family and the impact this will have on them and you.

You will get to pay child support, property settlement and perhaps alimony. It will not be fun.


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

She should loose weight because she wants to look and feel better, not just as a way to keep you and to get you to love her, because in the end you still may not love her. She needs to nurture her marriage now not wait until the kids are grown. It think you are focusing too much on her weight. If there are a lot of other things good in your marriage then you should concentrate on that. In the meantime be supportive with her weight loss efforts.


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## learning to love myself (Apr 18, 2013)

katsuma said:


> Hello again,
> 
> Thank you for all your comments and advice so far. It really is helpful to hear different viewpoints. I should mention that I'm from the UK as there have been some references to the US legal system.
> 
> ...



After reading this post and realizing you have been together such a long time and still so young, I think part of the problem is no other experiences/ nothing to compare & not realizing what you will end up losing

I'm not saying your looking to cheat, as I don't think you are. I just think people change a lot over time and you don't see her as the young, cute, thin girl you knew, she is now a woman, mother and someone you don't see as a sexual being. 

I did go through this with my husband, he no longer had sex with me (his Choice) Loved me, but I truly felt he was not in love with me, I also gained weight in my 30's and the only difference from me to your wife is I truly have been trying to fight the weight gain with a very up and down weight loss for years.

My husband was oh so kind to remind me of my weight gain and his lack of attraction to it so I kept on trying.

Now my husband was content with the way things were ( no, sex and me also very unhappy) I never pointed out his flaws and believe me, he too was not perfect as I'm sure you are not, I just loved him regardless of his flaws.

I did end up cheating on my husband after 20 years of marriage, I was very resentful and angry with my husband and at the time I just didn't care if I hurt him as I felt like he had been hurting me for years. (I justified my behavior)

I cheated for sex and I needed to see if I truly was so fat and unattractive to men. I did find out that I have no problem attracting the opposite sex, I also found out that my husband wanted me, which I truly believed he could care less.

This was the worst possible way to go about things and I will regret it forever, it has been the hardest journey in our marriage, I can say as of today we communicate all of the time (the good, the bad and the Ugly) and we found that sexercise is a great way to shed weight. 

I now do 30-45 minutes a day of some sort of exercise and for everyday I do this I get a body rub down, its a win win


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Earlier I asked the OP to really try and focus on making this work and I still stand by that.

I have read the various arguments presented for and against him leaving this marriage and just thought I would pipe in with my tuppence worth:


This is not a stay-married-at-any-cost site from what I gather and have read to date. However, it is a pro-marriage site and there is a difference.

Marriage is often hard work. There are ups and downs - hence phrases like "for better or worse", "in sickness and in health" etc. A married couple has to work hard to stay together sometimes.

Problems arise when communications are not two-way, free-flowing, honest or clear. This seems to be one of the main problems in this case.

Problems also arise when needs are not met - either knowingly or unknowingly. This also seems to be the case here.

The OP sounds like he feels he is entitled to certain things that should come "naturally" (whatever that means) from his wife. 

She on the other hand was under the impression that he was not as shallow as to consider leaving because of her weight and would give her (another) clear warning so that she could work on it.

It sounds like the OP is now checking out of this marriage because he simply doesn't want to do any more hard work as he thinks that he cannot see results.

I do not believe that he has really (really) thought about the effect on his kids (and his wife) (and himself) of breaking up this marriage and family. He needs to.

He may or may not be really considering what the impact of this is - all he can see is the possibility of finding someone new with whom he can have sex etc.

It boils down to strength of character and determination to really try everything before giving up - and even then, the giving up should be along the lines of "I love my wife, I am in love with my wife but I cannot see this working and have no other choice". 

Instead it is more like, "I think I love my wife", "I am definitely not attracted to her because she is now fat" and "while I am upset that my kids will be upset, I definitely deserve to find someone that I would like to have sex with" - harsh maybe, but that's what it sounds like at the moment.

Again, I would urge you to consider the following:


You married her for many reasons - she was a good, kind, attractive person.

You liked her appearance and her inner self as well and fell in love with her.

You have beautiful children together.

She has fallen by the way (just as you may have many times) and she needs your help, love and support. Give it to her and you will be rewarded many times over.

And you need to be selfless about this (tall order I know, but as I said, marriage is hard work).


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

This is an example of a man of good character. Listen to his words. You reap what you sow. This is how to sow good seed into your life and into your family.



manfromlamancha said:


> Earlier I asked the OP to really try and focus on making this work and I still stand by that.
> 
> I have read the various arguments presented for and against him leaving this marriage and just thought I would pipe in with my tuppence worth:
> 
> ...


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

katsuma said:


> We talked again last night. Initially I had only told her that I was no longer attracted to her and had fallen out of love. This time however,* I decided not to shy away but tell her without any shadow of a doubt that her weight gain was an issue for me and that it had contributed to the loss of my love and attraction towards her. She flipped - went berserk and told me to pack my bags. *
> 
> She has never had a problem with her weight and is a very confident person all round. I am probably the first person to ever challenge her about it so wasn't sure what to expect. *She was, as I hate myself for, extremely disappointed that I had not raised it earlier and let it get to this point. As I said, we did have a very frank discussion about it a few years ago where I basically said I needed more sex and for her to lose weight, but she said she assumed it was no longer a problem because I hadn't mentioned it more recently.*


Stick a fork in it's done!

Dude, I would have not only have tossed your ass I'd have thrown every worldy good you possessed into the fire pit a burned it!

Why the hell does she even want you?

Let her go so she can find a decent human being, one who doesn't behave in such a cowardly way and confronts important issues. Sheeshe!


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

warlock07 said:


> Look at the people who liked this posts. Swap the genders and imagine the advice.


Same advice from me.

My husband needs to drop some pounds in a big way. It does affect my attraction toward him. But I let him know he needs to work out and drop 40 pounds. I told him I wasn't buying the next size up in clothing cause the next size up in waste size is maternity!


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

intheory said:


> Your wife is obese. She should be between 107 - 140 lbs. 107lbs is a small-boned, "waif". 140lbs is a woman with a larger frame who has good muscle development.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:iagree:

When a person drinks too much booze they are destroying themselves. Divorce can be a consequence of alcoholism. Over eating is also a form of self abuse. She likely to suffer health problems, such as diabetes.

Telling the person about the problem is honesty.

Can you fall back in love with your wife? Not, if you don't have sex. She should be on a diet and exercise program, with professional help if necessary. You should schedule a date night and psyche yourself up to make love to her. I say make love because just pity fvcking will be bad for you both.

Kiss her a lot her a lot first. Tell yourself that she is a good woman. If she responds to you sexually, you can respond back.

If you work at this, you may save your marriage. If you fail, well, at least you tried. Your arrival on TAM was for a reason.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

katsuma said:


> She asked if she lost the weight would I love her.


That right there is heartbreaking. That poor woman 

No one is perfect, not your wife and not you, but she sticks with you doesn't she?


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## movealong (Aug 9, 2013)

Consider this:

You have now told her in no uncertain terms how you feel. You've basically stomped on her emotionally because you were too passive aggressive to face it head on when it started to bother you. She didn't think it was a problem for you any more because you didn't mention it again. It was not enough of a deal breaker for you to leave initially, so you allowed it to get to the point where you are ready to kick her to the curb.

Let's assume she loses all of the weight "for you", has sex "for you", does all of the things "for you". Resentment building at it's finest. Say she gets down to "sexy weight" and you're happy with it and start falling back in love with her, guess what? The things you saw in her other guys will see, too, and they may just give her a good reason to say "adios" to the person whom she trusted to always be there for her, support her, and love her for who she is, the person who stomped on her emotionally because of her trust.

You have more to worry about now than whether or not she loses weight. Now you have to worry that if she does do all of these things "for you", will she even want to stay?


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

movealong said:


> the person whom she trusted to always be there for her, support her, and love her for who she is, the person who stomped on her emotionally because of her trust.


Indeed - the person who PROMISED to be there for her, support her and love her for who she is, when he took marriage vows with her.


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## OptimisticPessimist (Jul 26, 2010)

I believe that each partner has a responsibility to look out for the welfare of the other. When she hit 40 pounds overweight, you should have had a frank conversation with her.

Maybe something like this (and this is just how *I* would do it): "I want you to know before I say this that I love you. As a man it is my responsibility to look after my woman and my kids, as well as to be the best version of myself I can be.

You are now about 40 pounds overweight. (wait for her to calm down and reaffirm you arent going anywhere). It isnt bad yet- 40 lbs isnt that big of a deal. But I dont want it to become a big deal that affects your health; the kids and myself want you to live to 120.

Lets both hit the gym together and get in the best shape of our lives. I can help you with this. I am your husband and I will help you with this. This is good for your health, good for my health, and good for our kids to see 2 adults helping each other. What do you think about my suggestion?"

And listen. She will be upset and insecure, but if you still wind her clock, she will find safety in your concern and your confident assertiveness. If she tries to attack you verbally, tell her to treat you with respect, and say that you are trying to be as respectful as possible.

Anyways, while you cant use this now (its too late for it), it does demonstrate a mentality that you at the very least should carry with you into a future relationship should you choose that route- you are a man and you need to be proactive about effecting a positive environment for your woman and any offspring. You will be respected for your attention to detail, your candor, your care, and your demonstration of being committed. 

I find your honesty refreshing, and I do think she should have expressed more interest in pleasing you aesthetically, but at the same time I find your demeanor a bit cold and superficial.

I echo the sentiments that she might be inclined to move on even if she does get serious and loses the weight. She will remember this...

As a final note, I caution other TAM members to remember that sometimes even the OP cant logically follow their own emotions. He seems to say that it was her weight gain that led to him falling out of love, and indeed that would be shallow. But it could well be other aspects of the relationship are not up to par. Sex can be a bridge over troubled waters, and friendship can be the bridge when the sex isnt there. If the relationship has problems beyond just her weight (which many of us could say is possible considering the rug-sweeping done by both in terms of her weight), her weight might have been the last straw.

I dont know, Im not an expert. But lets give the OP the benefit of the doubt while we try to figure out the best way to fix the marriage.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Frankly, if I weighed in at 185, my husband wouldn't be attracted to be either.

What is troubling to me, is OP's wife attitude about her weight gain aka "you should love me no matter how fat I am" instead of "you are right, I'm fat & don't like it either & would like to lose weight."

OP likes his wife but he is no longer attracted to her. He didn't marry a fat woman. Unless there is a medical reason, having 2 children is not an excuse to get fat. Eating poorly & a lack of exercise is the reason she is fat. It is depressing to be around someone like that & it does affect every aspect of a relationship, not just sex.

But here's the rub OP - if you do divorce her, she may go on the "divorce diet" & get hot again. Your "best friend" will be gone forever off with a new man who will be a step-parent to your children (I've seen it happen) & this new man could be a negative influence on your children. I want you to consider all possibilities before you pull the plug.

Have another honest conversation with her. Ask her is she wants to lose weight for herself. If she says no, that she is happy being fat, then you have your answer.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

I have to say, this thread has been playing on my mind a lot....

I do not speak to my husband much about the sites i go on, computers are not his thing really, it does not interest him much, but this thread was bothering so... I asked him him some questions.

We was sitting in a park while our three and half year old was playing... and i asked my husband why he never told me i was fat when i was Obese..... I never knew i was, but i remember when i was seeing the midwife while i was pregnant with my 3 year old and she told me i was high risk because of my weight my BMI of 32.... she told me i was Overweight think i was a size 18.... Still did nothing about it..... Until i think it will be 3 years in October since Losing the weight....

Well, anyway.... blah blah blah ( sorry going on)..... I asked him why did you not ever tell me i was fat, as i still have this photo where i was clearly fat..... But nobody, not a soul told me..... he just said i never really thought you was fat.... Only seeing the photo he realised just how big i was... I have to admit, I never thought i was fat Looking in the Mirror:scratchhead:...

He said the weight was gradual as the years went on.... I just put on more weight day by day going from a size 12.... to a 18... My sex life never dwindled, i was still treated the same by him..... he does not like fat women either, I know the type of women he likes....

I then said " you do not like fat woman tho and i was fat no doubting that" I asked him if he would have ever left me, he said no because he loves me, then and now....

I am now a size 10..... God knows what my BMI is......

I am just wondering..... a woman puts weight on, but shes still the same person, shes still the same person you fell in love with.... can weight change that?...

It never did for my husband...... Although he does always tells me i look great.... Except now he thinks i need to eat more than i do...

I cant win


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Apparently, significant weight gain can change attraction for some men -- obviously not all -- since I've seen more than a few threads on that subject. 

Will she ultimately be grateful or resentful to have been confronted with this -- that's the question.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Let's see what OP says.

Maybe his wife can reach him regardless of how much she weighs. One would expect her to get serious about losing weight.

I know a woman who had surgery to lose weight. She lost a lot and now has bags of loose skin. She is nice person. Super athlete. Has a boyfriend but she was damaging her health.


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## SongoftheSouth (Apr 22, 2014)

Well this is a tough one brother. There are lots of discussions on this forum of a wife that loses attraction in her husband, has an affair and people tell the dude to get back in shape, go to the gym, etc. etc. she lost her attraction to you cause you let yourself go and so forth. In this case its the opposite, but you have not cheated (or so you say) and get hammered for admitting something that would bother most men - LOL. 

I really do not think all is lost in your situation. You write that she is a good women, partner, mom etc. If she lost the weight you don't know if you would find the spark again. I think you are selling yourself short here. If she made this effort I bet you two would reconnect again. The question is how to go about this diplomatically. I don't know -take a light hearted approach or invite her to start doing things that you like to do such as fitness, outdoors activities etc, and really encourage her to join in. If she shows no interest maybe it is true incompatability but at least you tried. Good luck.


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## SongoftheSouth (Apr 22, 2014)

Hey this is another thought. Not so subtle but funny anyway. Rent the movie Easy Money with Rodney Dangerfield, Joe Pesci, JJ Leah and others and watch it together. Its about a guy that is married to a women with a rich mom that dies (supposedly) and leaves all her money to her daughter and son-in-law (Rodney) on the condition that he quit drinking, smoking, gambling, etc.. and lose about 60 pounds. Its pretty hilareous and although he wants the $$$ his main motivation is to do it for the family. All come out better in the end. Even if it does not help you its a darn funny movie!!

Regards SOS


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

melw74 said:


> I have to say, this thread has been playing on my mind a lot....
> 
> I do not speak to my husband much about the sites i go on, computers are not his thing really, it does not interest him much, but this thread was bothering so... I asked him him some questions.
> 
> ...


Some men don't seem to care about weight gain. I think at many, if not most, do. For those guys, they cannot love an overweight woman.


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

Obese is in American standards isn't attractive.

What OP has to determine is....

A fat woman gives what he wants and needs.

So far, she has, and that's good enough to stay.

OP has to stay because he wants to. And he doesn't.

He won't be happy until she loses weight. She'll get happy when she sheds not only her weight but his as well.

Double edge sword. Stick a fork in this. The marriage is dead.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I am one of those guys who really doesn't care one way or the other. For me, enthusiastic and frequent intimacy goes a long way toward making me happy regardless of weight. From the beginning I had the impression that the OP was similar. That is, that if his wife had been giving it up on a regular basis he probably wouldn't have cared about the weight gain in the first place.


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## katsuma (Aug 17, 2014)

So I've been doing some soul searching over the last few days to understand why I'm truly feeling the way I am. Yes, sex and weight is a factor, but there is more. What I'm going to do is list my thoughts in bullet point format. Note, these are in no particular order.

- We got together too young
- She was my first love and I need to experiment more and fear living with regret and resentment if I don't
- I value a clean and tidy house, she doesn't
- I like to keep fit and eat healthy, she doesn't
- I need regular sex, she doesn't
- She doesn't iron clothes until they're needed
- Clothes stay in the wash basket for weeks and months, only essentials are dealt with
- Bedding is not washed regularly, I have to point out the fact
- The kids do not have baths/showers as often as I think they should. Sometimes they can go days without and this seems ok to her.
- Her car is an absolute tip. The interior hasn't been cleaned for months
- I prefer taller, more slender women (her frame would never allow either)
- She indulges the kids too often with junk food and gifts
- She asked me out
- I didn't propose in the way a man should
- I feel like key moments in our relationship have mostly been initiated by her and that I've allowed myself to be led
- I've been far too non-confrontational and 'gone with the flow' too often because life wasn't all that bad
- Is she my best friend? Yes
- If we didn't have kids would I be with her now? Honestly, no, it would have ended 5 years ago due to the points above, but I feel the whole family package is worth more.
- I've given up on home maintenance because I don't feel like she keeps up her side of the deal - I've lost all motivation

I know I am by no means perfect and definitely have my faults - I'm just putting down my thoughts, no matter how trivial they may seem. I also do my fair share of the housework, I do not expect her to be slave to it - it's the attitude that has always bothered me.

Postive things about my wife:
- She's highly intelligent and funny
- She's confident
- She's a great mother in many respects and devotes herself to the kids
- She works extremely hard in her career - teaching
- She always has my evening meal ready when I get home from work
- She does many things to keep me happy and loves me unconditionally
- She has supported me massively through all my careers choices
- She would always sacrifice herself financially if it meant I could have something that would make me happy, e.g. a new TV.

Sorry, I don't have time to write much more right now and will follow up with more comments soon. I do want to say that we've decided to give it another go, at least for another month to see if things feel any different now that I've finally made my feelings clear. We had sex a couple of nights ago, I was aroused of course, but any passion was lacking, at least on my part...

Thanks for all the comments, suggestions and links thus far.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Take marriage time each week, two hours.

Only in that time discusse the issues above. Show her this post, but discussion in only allowed in those two hourse.

In the rest of the week you do both your chores you both have agreed upon already. Add to this eventual new decisions coming from that marriage time.

Is that an idea? The communication itself has to be non violent communication in that two hours. Look it up.


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## livnlearn (Mar 5, 2012)

negatives:
- We got together too young
- She was my first love and I need to experiment more and fear living with regret and resentment if I don't
- I value a clean and tidy house, she doesn't
- I like to keep fit and eat healthy, she doesn't
- I need regular sex, she doesn't
- She doesn't iron clothes until they're needed
- Clothes stay in the wash basket for weeks and months, only essentials are dealt with
- Bedding is not washed regularly, I have to point out the fact
- The kids do not have baths/showers as often as I think they should. Sometimes they can go days without and this seems ok to her.
- Her car is an absolute tip. The interior hasn't been cleaned for months
- I prefer taller, more slender women (her frame would never allow either)
- She indulges the kids too often with junk food and gifts
- I've given up on home maintenance because I don't feel like she keeps up her side of the deal - I've lost all motivation



Postive things about my wife:
- She's highly intelligent and funny
- She's confident
- She's a great mother in many respects and devotes herself to the kids
- She works extremely hard in her career - teaching
- She always has my evening meal ready when I get home from work
- She does many things to keep me happy and loves me unconditionally
- She has supported me massively through all my careers choices
- She would always sacrifice herself financially if it meant I could have something that would make me happy, e.g. a new TV.

Seems to me the scale is tipped pretty heavily towards the positive. Please don't give up your marriage without putting effort into fixing it....and yes, I mean both of you. Your wife should absolutely work on her weight since it is an issue with you. You though, need to work on being less judgmental. Maybe it's just me but it seems that "She does many things to keep me happy and loves me unconditionally" ought to trump the fact that she only irons when it is needed and doesn't regularly clean the interior of her car.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

I agree with Livnlearn - the scales are tipped heavily on the side of the positives - your wife sounds like a great woman who needs to perhaps get a bit healthier. Help her do this.

Dont sweat the small stuff - really - so what if she irons stuff when its needed - she is funny and a good mother. The sex you both need to work on.

I dont understand why you agreed to marry her if you prefer a different frame (this sounds like something that developed recently).

Don't give up on this.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

katsuma said:


> So I've been doing some soul searching over the last few days to understand why I'm truly feeling the way I am. Yes, sex and weight is a factor, but there is more. What I'm going to do is list my thoughts in bullet point format. Note, these are in no particular order.
> 
> - We got together too young
> - She was my first love and I need to experiment more and fear living with regret and resentment if I don't
> ...


I think you need to reassess how very trivial some of your complaints are.

- she only irons stuff when she needs it - so what, how does that affect you?
- her car is a mess, again, so what, how does that affect you?
- kids don't have to bathe every day, every two or three days is fine for pre pubescent kids
- why don't you change the sheets? She's working full time too I assume
- she asked you out? Ok maybe let that go, why is that an issue?
- she's your first love, well that falls under the "made your bed" category. As does you prefer tall and slender women. Well, too bad at this stage 

And then you also have some legitimate issues, mismatched libidos, she's overweight and you're not attracted to her. Those things could be connected also

On the plus side, she loves you unconditionally, she's very supportive, she's a good mother, she's intelligent and generous and sweet. Do you think women like that grow on trees? 

If you get divorced you'll be paying child support, you will disrupt your children's lives permanently, you will lose something very precious which is growing older with someone who has known and loved you since you were a teenager and in all likelihood you'll just end up with different problems with someone else anyway.


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

katsuma said:


> Hello again,
> 
> The thing is, I feel like I'm asking her to do something that I know she cannot sustain and will almost definitely lead to resentment towards me in the future, as she openly said in her moment of anger how I could let something as superficial as her weight and body shape lead to the downfall of our marriage. She said that _I_ enjoyed outdoor activities, etc. while _she_ was more of an intellectual and preferred to be at home reading, etc. Perhaps that's where we differ, I don't know.


You don't know if that's where you differ after 17 years? 

And yet you're pretty sure she won't be able to sustain any kind of weight loss/fitness programme. Has she ever tried? If not you're writing off her chances without a willingness to see if it's something that you could work on together. If she knows how important it is to you and sees a way of spending more time with you as well as getting fitter and more healthy then it's a bit of a win-win. A lack of willingness on her part to do that might suggest something more fundamental is up

One thing I will tell you is that my ex-husband dropped a bomb on me and suddenly informed me he'd been unhappy for years without bothering to actually say so. He gave me no opportunity to understand what had gone wrong or work on things. He just dropped the marriage and discarded 13 years so easily because it was what *he* wanted to do. No thought for anyone else.

Guess what my feelings are about him now? If you want your wife to look at you with pity for the cowardly way you've handled everything then that's your look out. I see my ex-husband as a pathetic excuse for a man. Big in stature, weak in mind. And good riddance all round. Be careful you don't suffer the same fate


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## Template (Aug 2, 2011)

Katsuma-
It sounds as though no one is leading in your marriage and you are each leading parallel lives, bonded by the fact you have children together. I bet she has some unhappy thoughts about the marriage as well.

You might want to visit the Married Man Sex Life site, read the books and peruse the forum, and perhaps post a triage. Think you might get some help organizing your thoughts, making a realistic assessment of your situation and making a plan to assume the leadership position in the marriage and assist your wife in stepping it up in the looks and sex department.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Personally, I think everyone is glossing over your biggest problem because you sound shallow. Weight wasn't a huge issue, you wanted sex with her badly from your OP, until you realized you were rejected and in a sexless marriage. So, for 3-4 years you trudged along blaming it on her weight, when it was really the rejection and lack of intimacy. Then you start cataloging minor problems because you didn't deal with the actual issue. Now, you have a laundry list of "hate" which sounds shallow to everyone, but to me you were trying to detach.

Now, it may be too late. 4 years of constant rejection, IMO, will not be fixed if she loses weight and becomes hot again as some posters are suggesting. Your root issue, the fear of rejection, will still exist. You need to go to individual counseling to deal with your feelings of rejection and marriage counseling to see if you can fix this marriage..


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## confusedFather (Jul 15, 2012)

I'm coming in pretty late and haven't read most of the thread so just a few high level comments:
- the negatives on you list seem mostly seem trivial and fixable
- the positives seem significant. You may have a very hard time finding all those qualities again.

You said she felt like a train hit her. Well, it did. If you were not communicating how important these things were you blind sided her.

You've checked out without giving her a chance. Sure love can die but it can be brought to life as well. Marriage is work it doesn't just stay wonderful without the work. You both forgot to work. You may not feel motivated to do the work without the loving feelings. But do you ever go to your job because you know it's what you should do when you feel like staying home. Do you ever workout when you physically do feel it but know it's worth it in the end. The same principle applies here. You do the work because you know the payoff is worth it. What's the payoff? You fall in love with a pretty good woman.

Final point: your kids deserve the effort. You said you hate the idea of not seeing them every day. You don't hate that nearly as much as they will hate not seeing you. You'll get over it; there's no guarantee they will. Your kids deserve the effort.

I once heard someone say leave if there is abuse, addiction, or affairs, everything else can be fixed. I don't completely agree with these three A's but they kind of make sense.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Some men don't seem to care about weight gain. I think at many, if not most, do. For those guys, they cannot love an overweight woman.


For some men they do not care about weight gain, but my husband does not like big women, and back then i was definitely overweight, but it never bothered my husband...... I just find that strange.... But like i say he just does not like overweight women....


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

movealong said:


> Consider this:
> 
> You have now told her in no uncertain terms how you feel. You've basically stomped on her emotionally because you were too passive aggressive to face it head on when it started to bother you. She didn't think it was a problem for you any more because you didn't mention it again.


I don't buy that for a single second. I was morbidly obese. I have plenty of fat to obese people whom I love dearly. I've talked to hundreds of fat people through the years.

A huge hallmark of the fat mentality is to remain silent. They expect everyone around them to be delusional, or if they're aware, to keep quiet. This man made it clear to his wife YEARS ago that her sexual abandonment and excess weight gain was a problem for him. To confront a spouse, out of love and a desire to save the marriage, about these two delicate subjects takes guts and heart, perhaps more than you know. He should NOT have had to continue ragging on this woman year after year. The ball was in her court and she, like most fat and/or LD spouses, dropped it in favor of an "if I ignore the problem it'll go away". The man stated in a previous post that he was upfront about his feelings, she heard him, put in a little effort a few times, then got lazy again on the diet and exercise front, and back to sexually abandoning him, as usual. That's the polar opposite of "passive aggressive".

This woman decided to not meet her man's sexual needs.
This woman decided that lazing around on the couch was better than being active.
This woman decided to overeat.
This woman decided to become obese.

Those were HER choices. And when confronted, again YEARS ago, with the burgeoning consequences of her actions she is the one who decided that it magically was no longer an issue as long as it was no longer a conversation.

She failed. Now her husband has fallen out of love with her and doesn't even know if he can ever truly love her again. What do you expect from a person for whom sex and physical attraction are vitally important, and yet their spouse totally ignored their needs for years on end?


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

I can't be the only one who read this list and came away thinking the core issue is that this man, so young, just decided to "go with the flow" and marry his female best friend whom he loved, but perhaps was never "in love" or terribly passionate about?

His pro list sounds amazing, but there is something detached about it. Like he recognizes what an amazing person she was, and acknowledges the love she's shown him, but it's devoid of language that suggests he ever really was IN love with this woman.

The following points in particular have enormous repercussions:

- She asked me out
- I didn't propose in the way a man should
- I feel like key moments in our relationship have mostly been initiated by her and that I've allowed myself to be led
- I've been far too non-confrontational and 'gone with the flow' too often because life wasn't all that bad

I know this mentality well because my wife, in her younger years, was just like this. She's changed enormously but if we hadn't fallen madly in love, we've both talked about the fact that she likely would have ended up in a LTR or marriage where the guy was good to her, loved her, and she just went with the flow. She had boyfriends in high school and college that she wasn't even all that attracted to, but she dated them because they asked and things just weren't all that bad.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

jaquen said:


> I can't be the only one who read this list and came away thinking the core issue is that this man, so young, just decided to "go with the flow" and marry his female best friend whom he loved, but perhaps was never "in love" or terribly passionate about?
> 
> His pro list sounds amazing, but there is something detached about it. Like he recognizes what an amazing person she was, and acknowledges the love she's shown him, but it's devoid of language that suggests he ever really was IN love with this woman.
> 
> ...


I read it as a guy who is beaten down and feels guilty that he has detached. Of course a list written now is going to be devoid of emotion. I wouldn't base anything he writes now, as a way to draw a conclusion about his past emotions. So, he is now blaming himself for the failings in the marriage. Your list, to me, has nothing to do with him not ever being "in love" as opposed to "best friend love." It has too many variables.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Your list, to me, has nothing to do with him not ever being "in love" as opposed to "best friend love." It has too many variables.


The fact that there are "too many variables" suggests that my list could possibly have something to do with it indeed.

We don't know. Hence my making an enquiry and not dismissing alternate possibilities based solely off "too many variables".


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

jmiller2020 said:


> I think you should read His Needs Her Need out loud with her.
> 
> When I first developed this neck condition I sort of gave up on working out. My husband and I love to lift weights and go on workout dates so this was a HUGE culture shock to our marriage.
> 
> ...


The most compelling post to date in this thread

Well said jm2020

55


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## cuchulain36 (Jul 8, 2014)

It's not reasonable to expect a man to remain in a marriage with a woman who cuts off sex and remains obese for years and years.

The tricky thing is even if she lost the weight she would resent the husband and want a new man anyway.

I agree this marriage seems done.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

jaquen said:


> The fact that there are "too many variables" suggests that my list could possibly have something to do with it indeed.


Yes, I know this is my exact point. I just do not see your claim of "never in love" fatalism because of the variables.


> I can't be the only one who read this list and came away thinking the core issue is that this man, so young, just decided to "go with the flow" and marry his female best friend whom he loved, but perhaps was never "in love" or terribly passionate about?


So, no, I didn't read it the way you did, nor your lists, because there are too many variables and he is writing it nearly four years in the future, as a detached fallen out of love spouse..

Hopefully, this makes my point clearer.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

katsuma said:


> About the kids. My wife has said that she would rather live separate lives in the same house than see the kids without their dad and have to break the news to them. This made me feel awful, but how practical is this really? How long can that kind of setup possibly last?


That depends. How hard are you lusting over the chance to go screw as many pretty, skinny women as you can find?

We all know that's what's really going on here. At least be honest with yourself and us.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Some of you feel that way, not "all."


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Come on T you know that's not fair. His wife was the one who cut off the intimacy which resulted in his loss of attraction.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Come on T you know that's not fair. His wife was the one who cut off the intimacy which resulted in his loss of attraction.


Trust me, I'm not giving her a pass. At all. 

But I also know men. Men who marry right out of high school and never get to experiment. Who are stuck with unappealing women who focus on the kids and ignore their husbands and say trite things like 'we'll have time for each other once the kids are grown.'

But they still are really just lusting over having sex with more women. I've seen many threads here where the spouse who's considering leaving has to decide whether to give up the dream of trying on more people before they die. They have a hard decision to make - stay with someone they know is a good fit, or leave them so they can see what else is out there.

That's not a dis. It's human nature. But he needs to ask what he ultimately wants.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

turnera said:


> Trust me, I'm not giving her a pass. At all.
> 
> But I also know men. Men who marry right out of high school and never get to experiment. Who are stuck with unappealing women who focus on the kids and ignore their husbands and say trite things like 'we'll have time for each other once the kids are grown.'
> 
> ...


Ignoring for kids is different than outright sexual rejection. That's two biased over generalizations from you, which is weird. I'll disagree and bow out so, I don't continue the derail.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

melw74 said:


> I have to say, this thread has been playing on my mind a lot....
> 
> I do not speak to my husband much about the sites i go on, computers are not his thing really, it does not interest him much, but this thread was bothering so... I asked him him some questions.
> 
> ...


This is an interesting observation. 

When I was married my wife at the time put on a lot of weight. I never really saw it. I remember when she was giving birth to my daughter and the doctor needed to know her weight to give her an epidural and it was 220. I was shocked. She's only 5'6"

Somehow I think as long as I was in love with her I saw her essence more than her physical appearance. I thought she was the most beautiful woman in the world.

Now...over a decade post divorce I no longer even like her. I look at her now and see that she is fat and unappealing. 

I believe our feelings play a huge role in how we see things. This leads me to believe the OP's predicament has more to do with than simply his wife's weight. He's noticing it now because he doesn't feel about her the way he did once. I'd hazard a guess the feelings went away 'before' the realization that she was gross to him.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Initially reading your post, I assumed your wife to be a sahm who was responsible for taking care of the house and kids while you are work. Later you tell us that she is works full time as a teacher, yet you seem to have the expectation that she take care of the home and the kids. She has dinner ready for you when you come home from work, even though she has also worked all day.
Based on this, I assume she is probably the one driving the kids around in her vehicle. You complain that her vehicle is a mess. Could it be that she is so busy with work and taking care of the home, the children and you that she does not have time to worry about things like whether the car is cleaned up or not?
Could it be that your wife is worn out doing your bidding and her appreciation for you has dried up along with her sex drive? 
Quite frankly, you sound like you are expecting a lot from your wife. You don’t even take the initiative to wash your own stinking sheets and are dissatisfied with her when she doesn’t do it for you. They are you sheets. If you want them washed, do it yourself.
I think the main problem here is not your wife, but your self-centered, entitled point of view. You want a servant, a nanny, an employee (she brings in money to your household), a model, and a sex kitten. I’m wondering how amazing you must be for her to do all this for you when your behavior reeks of being self-absorbed.
No wonder she doesn’t want to go with you when you spend fun time with the kids. She is probably maxed out and needs a break, yet you want to add an exercise routine and dieting to all of that, when she barely has time to keep up with what needs to be done and you are complaining, at least within yourself, that she is not keeping up with your expectations.
It sounds to me like you could use a measure of appreciate for all that your wife does for you and the children. It also sounds like you need some sort of chore chart where you are washing sheets, cleaning out the car, and making dinner right along with your long suffering wife.
The problem with your wife doesn’t have to do with her weight or her not meeting her obligations. It is about a lack of appreciation and love for your wife. Love is not just about how we feel. Love is also about action. You are not acting like you love anyone, except maybe yourself. If you can change that and decide to start doing your part and appreciating everything your wife does for you and the family, you might be able to heal the hurt that she is likely feeling from how you have spoken to her and treated her.
This starts with you doing your part:
Do your own laundry, including those sheets.
Start cooking.
Clean out the vehicle that your children ride in, or better yet, teach them how to clean up after themselves. It sounds to me like you are also teaching your children to expect your wife (their mother) to do for them what they should be doing for themselves.
The example of this is bathing. There should be a nightly routine where the children are cleaning up their things and themselves. You, the dad, should be actively involved in teaching them these things, so they become self-reliant, rather than expecting mommy to do it all for them. This is true whether your wife would work full time or be a sahm. When you are off work, your wife should not have to be doing it all herself. That’s her doing all the work. How is that going to make her feel sexy and motivated to keep herself looking great? She doesn’t have time to think about herself. She is so busy taking care of you and the kids. And where has that gotten her? To a place where all you seem concerned about is whether she still has her sexy figure. Not because of any concern for her or her health, but for you.
You have made this life by having a self-centered attitude and you expect your wife to fix it, just like you seem to expect her to fix everything else, based on what you have told us here. It’s sad. I hope you stop and change your attitude.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Reminds me of the talks my H and I have, when he says "I have to do EVERYTHING around here!" when something breaks and he has to fix it. And I trot out my daily list of activities - the laundry, the sweeping, ironing, tub cleaning, dishes, cooking, kid raising, homework, appointments, bills, cat box, trash pickup, weeding,...etc. I say I'll gladly switch places with you so that I only have to feed the dogs in the morning and take out the trash once a week and mow once a week. Wanna switch?

The problem is - and I bet this is a common one - that all these things are just done. No one notices me doing them, they just get done and everyone assumes it's just how life is, these things being done. It's easy to not notice all those contributions. (and yes, women do it, too)


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

turnera said:


> The problem is - and I bet this is a common one - that all these things are just done. No one notices me doing them, they just get done and everyone assumes it's just how life is, these things being done. It's easy to not notice all those contributions. (and yes, women do it, too)


Right. I tell my kids there is no kitchen fairy and Mommy is not your maid.
My husband is no stranger to the kitchen. He used to do all the cooking until I quit my job to be a sahm. Before that, he did all the kitchen duties from cooking to clean up. I did the shopping and most of the other indoor household chores. He took care of the vehicles. We shared yard duty.

If you want to honor your wife and all that she does and if you want to give your children a solid home with two loving parents, I recommend the following:
Start actively noticing and appreciating what your wife does for you and your children.
Comment daily on at least one thing that you appreciate about your wife.
Teach your children to clean up after themselves, starting with your wife’s vehicle.
Make dinner at least once per week and if you can afford it, take the family out to dinner another night per week. This will give your wife a much needed break from having to come up with a meal after having worked all day.
Take over the sheets on your bed and change them on a schedule that you like.
Talk with your wife about starting a bedtime routine with your children and work together to teach them how to clean up their belongings and themselves. Discuss how often they should be bathing and help facilitate that.
Assess the household duties that need to be accomplished and choose items that you don’t mind doing, then take them off your wife’s hands. When my husband and I were both working, we split the chores into what he liked to do and what I like to do. They didn’t overlap much. We both felt the split was fair and it made a huge difference in our attitudes towards each other.
If you leave your family, you are going to be responsible for your own meals, your own sheets, and everything else. You may as well make an effort to step it up now in an effort to improve your life and the lives of your family members. Give it a try and see how it goes.


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## zackie (Aug 27, 2013)

turnera said:


> Reminds me of the talks my H and I have, when he says "I have to do EVERYTHING around here!" when something breaks and he has to fix it. And I trot out my daily list of activities - the laundry, the sweeping, ironing, tub cleaning, dishes, cooking, kid raising, homework, appointments, bills, cat box, trash pickup, weeding,...etc. I say I'll gladly switch places with you so that I only have to feed the dogs in the morning and take out the trash once a week and mow once a week. Wanna switch?
> 
> The problem is - and I bet this is a common one - that all these things are just done. No one notices me doing them, they just get done and everyone assumes it's just how life is, these things being done. It's easy to not notice all those contributions. (and yes, women do it, too)


My husband grew up in a house where his mother waited on everyone hand and foot. Thus he expects me to do all the "women's work" - food shopping, cooking, cleaning etc.. while he changes a lightbulb every couple of weeks and takes out the garbage when he's not sitting on the couch surfing the web on his ipad. And of course he makes a big production when he does do something around the house. I work full time just like him.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Yes, I know this is my exact point. I just do not see your claim of "never in love" fatalism because of the variables. So, no, I didn't read it the way you did, nor your lists, because there are too many variables and he is writing it nearly four years in the future, as a detached fallen out of love spouse..
> 
> Hopefully, this makes my point clearer.


Twice it seems you clearly skip over the qualifying phrase "but perhaps". 

It was conjecture. An attempt to sus out another potential, not an absolute "claim".


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

zackie said:


> My husband grew up in a house where his mother waited on everyone hand and foot. Thus he expects me to do all the "women's work" - food shopping, cooking, cleaning etc.. while he changes a lightbulb every couple of weeks and takes out the garbage when he's not sitting on the couch surfing the web on his ipad. And of course he makes a big production when he does do something around the house. I work full time just like him.


When I moved in with my H, his mom was living with him. Which was fine with me, I like her. But when she moved out 3 years later, our house fell apart! Turns out, she'd been following around behind him picking up all his mess. To this day I can't stop him from dropping his dirty socks on the living room floor, at least not without an argument; it's what he was trained to expect. grrr

Although...that said, when he IS sitting on the couch and I'm working, guess who has a load of clean laundry dumped in his lap to fold?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

turnera said:


> Although...that said, when he IS sitting on the couch and I'm working, guess who has a load of clean laundry dumped in his lap to fold?


I do this too, but not just with my husband. I bring in laundry basket full of clothes and tell the kids and hubby to make sure everyone gets their clothes, as I do not want any of it back in the laundry room unclaimed.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Yeah, me too. DD23 shares the chores equally, always has. It's my job to teach her how to handle a household on her own. In fact, when she was growing up, each year I'd add another chore. By the time she went off to college, she was doing kitchen, laundry, dusting, vacuuming, mowing the yard, washing the car, making her own appointments (you wouldn't believe how big a deal this is to 18-20 year olds, who don't know how to do it). I missed all that help when she went away, lol.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

CynthiaDe said:


> Initially reading your post, I assumed your wife to be a sahm who was responsible for taking care of the house and kids while you are work. Later you tell us that she is works full time as a teacher, yet you seem to have the expectation that she take care of the home and the kids. She has dinner ready for you when you come home from work, even though she has also worked all day.
> Based on this, I assume she is probably the one driving the kids around in her vehicle. You complain that her vehicle is a mess. Could it be that she is so busy with work and taking care of the home, the children and you that she does not have time to worry about things like whether the car is cleaned up or not?
> Could it be that your wife is worn out doing your bidding and her appreciation for you has dried up along with her sex drive?
> Quite frankly, you sound like you are expecting a lot from your wife. You don’t even take the initiative to wash your own stinking sheets and are dissatisfied with her when she doesn’t do it for you. They are you sheets. If you want them washed, do it yourself.
> ...


You could very well be on to something, but in order to buy what you're saying we'd have to assume the OP is lying. Because this doesn't at all fit the narrative he's laid out about his life and his wife. He said that:

- He's non-confrontational. From the beginning of his relationship he tended to go along with HER lead. So much so that when he finally started talking about his issues she failed to follow through to any great lengths, he shut his mouth, and she just assumed that his silence was compliance with her desire to remain status quo. The victim you're painting in your post doesn't line up with what the man is saying about his own wife.

- She says that she's perfectly happy with her utter lack of physical activity and current obesity. Whether that's a lie (likely) or not, according to this woman's husband that's what she said. Nowhere did he say that she mentioned being overwhelmed by his "bidding" that somehow she doesn't have time to invest in her health and looks. She is the one stating that she looks and acts exactly as she wants to. Again, not a victim.

We also have no idea how many hours this man works, what type of job, whether her work is full time or not, what other chores around the house he's responsible for, nothing. You're making a lot of assumptions in order to spin the evil lazy husband and the victimized, long suffering wife narrative. 

What we DO know, according to the husband here? The wife was living a life she was perfectly fine with, sitting in a fat body she was perfectly fine with, having non-existent sex life she was perfectly fine with, being a couch potato she was perfectly fine being. She was shocked at his unhappiness. Shocked that their CURRENT life wasn't working for him because it seems to be working just fine with her. You're telling me that a vocal wife willing to kick her husband out the house for even bringing up her weight wouldn't have pulled the "I do everything around here and you don't appreciate me!" card?

This doesn't match what you're suggesting at all. The OP is presenting a wife with a lot of leeway, power, and control to live her life exactly as she sees fit.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

jaquen said:


> This doesn't match what you're suggesting at all. The OP is presenting a wife with a lot of leeway, power, and control to live her life exactly as she sees fit.


I based my posts off of what he wrote. You are free to disagree.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I also don't see the wife as a victim. She can tell him what to do with his entitled attitude and raise her expectations. When he spoke to her about his feelings, she could have told him that if he wants more from her, he will have to put out more for the family, because she doesn't have time to do what he is asking.
We do not have to allow others to treat us badly. She could stop making dinner for him. She could tell him to change the sheets himself or do his own ironing. There is a lot she could do here. But we are not talking to her. We are talking to him.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

CynthiaDe said:


> I based my posts off of what he wrote. You are free to disagree.



Great argument. Rebutted every point! lol


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

CynthiaDe said:


> I based my posts off of what he wrote. You are free to disagree.


Well yes. You took what he said his wife did, _assumed _what he's not doing, stripped away everything he actually told us about his wife's view on her own life and marriage, plugged the sainted, suffering wife version you created into your story as the protagonist and made him the entitled, bidding, evil antagonist. 

The people you created actually aren't supported by what the OP is saying. He's told us several times that he's a non-confrontational man who has often let his wife lead, to the point that she's shocked that he's unhappy with anything in their lives when he finally speaks up.

That doesn't' fit your story. At all.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

jaquen said:


> Well yes. You took what he said his wife did, _assumed _what he's not doing, stripped away everything he actually told us about his wife's view on her own life and marriage, plugged the sainted, suffering wife version you created into your story as the protagonist and made him the entitled, bidding, evil antagonist.
> 
> The people you created actually aren't supported by what the OP is saying. He's told us several times that he's a non-confrontational man who has often let his wife lead, to the point that she's shocked that he's unhappy with anything in their lives when he finally speaks up.
> 
> That doesn't' fit your story. At all.


She's just projecting. I'm sure you know how common that is.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

WorkingOnMe said:


> She's just projecting. I'm sure you know how common that is.


I do almost no housework. (Edited to add: except cooking and all of the grocery shopping. I do most of the cooking, which was our agreement when I quit my job. I also clean up after myself.) That is the job of the children. I am a stay at home mother and homeschooling mother. I am in charge of the household. My husband works full time. He also does all his own laundry. He is an involved father and we work together on parenting. I am not projecting.
I am wondering, however, if I may have hit a nerve with some lazy husbands who might be in denial.


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## lost_Alone (Aug 25, 2014)

Hinting around doesn't work. People aren't mind readers and can't fix problems they know nothing about. Now that everything is out in the open and she knows what the problems are, you both can work on them. Give it 6 months and if you still feel the same, then by all means move out and file for divorce. 
2W
I know exactly where you are and I know how you feel. I didn't think I still loved my husband after all the bull ****, but I still do, it was buried by everything else I felt. I think you still love your wife deep down, you both need to work on things to find each other again. Work it out. Marriage was never meant to be easy all the time, you have to work at it.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

CynthiaDe said:


> I am wondering, however, if I may have hit a nerve with some lazy husbands who might be in denial.


I think you'd have more of a chance of hitting a nerve if your posts were actually based of the information the OP gave.

I already conceded that you could very well be correct. You could be 100% on the mark. Your assessment certainly wouldn't be uncommon or unusual. But how would we know when your conjecture veers so wildly from the information provided? The wife in question was confronted several times and the OP never once mentions that she accused him of the things you are. In fact, according to this woman's husband, she liked the life she's living and is surprised he doesn't. And the fact that, according to him, and his wife's reaction, he seldom speaks up for himself, that directly contradicts the demanding, self centered tyrant who is making her do his bidding left and right.


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