# First MC Session, Revenge Cheating Does Exist



## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

So, after having my first counseling session with my wife. I have found what I thought all along to be true. Revenge cheating, though not right, is one way BS' cope with their SO cheating. It's a way to try to understand what the big deal was, and also a way to feel better. Like cheating, it also does not work to make the situation better. 
It is strange though that during counseling, the counselor would constantly say that knowing the details of the affair is pointless, as it does not change the outcome. I disagree with this whole heartedly. The counselor also stated I have forgivness issues (no ****) and that I need to learn how to develop the ability to forgive.
It's always funny that counselors tell you what you already knew, and on some points, you feel they offered no advice at all. She did enlighten me on a few things, but i'm still not convinced. I have a IC session with her today, then with the wife on wednesday. So making steps, not sure where it will lead, but either way, should help us whether we remain a couple or move on as indiviuals.


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

Hi Mikey Yes it does exist I had an affair on my wife about 2yrs ago, I was in my last year of grad school and had develop a close relationship with a classmate that led to a pa, at the time i liked the attn she gave me as my wife was too busy for me or so i thought anyway I ended the affair and decided to stay with my spouse I got honest during MC and spilled the beans so to speak anyway she went out of town with some gf's and she had a ons or revenge affair and told me about when she got home explained how guilty she felt etc etc and said besides whats good for the goose is good for the gander ya right. We both decided to stay married and started working on our relationship along with mc anyway today we are very transparent and loving with each other and have a fantastic marriage although we are still in the recovery process and have been for 2 yrs now I love my wife more today than i ever have we have been married for 12 yrs and this i the best our marriage has ever been just my experience.


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## hanay (Mar 5, 2012)

I agree with you, the counsellor often doesnt really say much at all and I am not sure if this is how counselling is meant to be. I wanted a counsellor that would give us direction and focus but I dont have anything to compare it too. What I do find useful is that the counselling sessions are an hour a week where you can both talk about what happened and it wont ruin your evening as it often does if you just discuss it any old time. Its also a great time to vent everything in an environment where there is someone to help mediate. All the best to you both!


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

In_The_Wind said:


> Hi Mikey Yes it does exist I had an affair on my wife about 2yrs ago, I was in my last year of grad school and had develop a close relationship with a classmate that led to a pa, at the time i liked the attn she gave me as my wife was too busy for me or so i thought anyway I ended the affair and decided to stay with my spouse I got honest during MC and spilled the beans so to speak anyway she went out of town with some gf's and she had a ons or revenge affair and told me about when she got home explained how guilty she felt etc etc and said besides whats good for the goose is good for the gander ya right. We both decided to stay married and started working on our relationship along with mc anyway today we are very transparent and loving with each other and have a fantastic marriage although we are still in the recovery process and have been for 2 yrs now I love my wife more today than i ever have we have been married for 12 yrs and this i the best our marriage has ever been just my experience.



Thanks. I just was glad to know that I was not crazy for having those feelings. It just felt a bit on the judgmental side when I came here and expressed my feeling and what it led to. As I have stated on numerous occasions, I know it wasn't right at this moment in time, but the need for regaining my manhood and feeling wanted and appreciated was most important at that time. I just think it is worse when someone cheats when there is no reason to. Its bad even when there is a reason, but cheating just because an opportunity presented itself, while you have a great SO waiting for you, can drive said SO crazy when trying to find out what caused it and there is no reason in the response.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

hanay said:


> I agree with you, the counsellor often doesnt really say much at all and I am not sure if this is how counselling is meant to be. I wanted a counsellor that would give us direction and focus but I dont have anything to compare it too. *What I do find useful is that the counselling sessions are an hour a week where you can both talk about what happened and it wont ruin your evening as it often does if you just discuss it any old time. Its also a great time to vent everything in an environment where there is someone to help mediate*. All the best to you both!


This is true. I was so relieved at the end after having an opportunity to let everything out to someone where there was no backlash for my feelings and I could get my thoughts out without interruption. The only thing I disagree with is the whole thing about forgetting about the details and its supposed insignificance. I don't see eye to eye with her on this, which I will talk about today.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

People cheat for revenge??

Wow! Really?!? I knew it!!!

If you don't mind, could you also ask Counselor Obvious phd. if the sun is really hot and snow is actually white?. I've often wondered if I was just imagining things. But, I never had the money to confirm it with a professional. Get back with me on the answers if you do mind.

Thanks!

lol.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> People cheat for revenge??
> 
> Wow! Really?!? I knew it!!!
> 
> ...


Based on the responses here, it is not out of revenge why someone cheats when wronged, but out of some selfish need for whatever. I see where your sarcasm was aimed though, lol, but if you read the posts here, apparently you're still the bad guy if you are a "revenge seeker" rather than an "up and divorce" or "suck it up type".


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

Why dont you ask her how she will feel if you have an affair? If she cant allow that then ask her, how she is expecting you to swallow her affair?

But do you need more trouble by having a revenge affair?


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

mikeydread1982 said:


> Based on the responses here, it is not out of revenge why someone cheats when wronged, but out of some selfish need for whatever. I see where your sarcasm was aimed though, lol, but if you read the posts here, apparently you're still the bad guy if you are a "revenge seeker" rather than an "up and divorce" or "suck it up type".


Doesn't make you a "bad" guy. It makes you human. A revenge cheater is generally deeply hurt and doesn't know how to deal with that pain and vulnerability. They also have a built in rationalization for doing what we are all genetically programmed to do. So it is weak, and I think most revenge cheaters come to regret that weakness. but, I don't think it makes someone a "bad" person.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

So I did my IC session, and man, I apparently have forgiveness issues. All the counselor could harp on was that I need to stop focusing on the why and move on to what I can do to make the relationship better. She also still harped on the fact that thinking about the why's won't change it, and that I am keeping this other person in my marriage. Am I missing something? So the why doesn't matter? Then why is my natural urge to want to know why so dominant? Ugh, this counseling thing is so frustrating. MC Wednesday night. More to come.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

mikeydread1982 said:


> Am I missing something? So the why doesn't matter? Then why is my natural urge to want to know why so dominant?


No, it doesn't really matter.

The urge to know "why" is so strong because your psyche would like to protect itself from it happening again. By knowing "why" you think you might be able to defend yourself from repeating that pain. But, It's a mirage. 

All your wife can offer you is _her reasons, justifications, excuses, explanations_, etc... they are hollow beyond the truth... She wanted to, and she found an excuse to let herself.

I told someone once before that by looking for the "why" your really looking for something that can never be given back to you... It's a sense of safety and security... But the truth is that's dead now, innocence is gone. 

She may be able to give you something plausable, maybe it's the truth... maybe it's _her truth_, maybe it's just what she convinced herself of so she could do what she wanted to do... Doesn't matter. You can only be the best husband that _you_ can be. You can't prevent this from happening again, and you are aware of your vulnerabilty. That's a scary place to be. 

You have evened up the score so to speak, right? in your mind the slate is clean? 

So now, I think you have to let go of the "why's" and decide if your ready to push all your chips in the middle, or if you fold. 

Scary stuff.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> No, it doesn't really matter.
> 
> The urge to know "why" is so strong *because your psyche would like to protect itself from it happening again*. By knowing "why" you think you might be able to *defend yourself from repeating that pain*. But, It's a mirage.
> 
> ...


All the highlighted stuff is soooo true. That's how it really feels. And even though I "evened the score"(sounds dumb just saying it), I knew why I did it. She still did it when nothing was wrong. How can you prevent something when you have issues, if you can't prevent it when nothing was wrong? That's what is driving me nuts. I am going to finish up the counseling, but I am honestly on the fence of staying or leaving, I guess I am not man enough to handle betrayal, or man enough to offer forgivness. I never grew up around infidelity, so I was never prepared for handling it and what it comes with. There should be relationship classes in schools for teenagers to prepare them for what relationships come with. Lol.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

There is a never a man enough scenario in these situations. Forgiving a cheater does not mean you are a better man. Some might consider kicking a cheating wife out to be real man quality. So it depends on what works for you and how you can move on.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I wanted to knwo the details and I am glad that I did. I have better picture of how my bf thinks. I could also see that he was able to some **** off his EA. and also, had a pretty generous wallet for her. He tried to pass it off as "just friends" to which I responded, well, with that kind of treatment, I would like to be just friends as well. He has since as far as I can tell cut off complete contact from her.

I would have to say, whether married or just dating, I do not like the idea that my partner is out spending money on her when he expects me to stump up. So yes, having the facts in hand was really worth it. 

I have a very low opinon about counselors. And I find quite often (asI have tried to give the profession a chance over the decades) they do whatever they can to keep the upperhand and belittle you in session. why do I need to pay for that kind of treatment.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

mikeydread1982 said:


> All the highlighted stuff is soooo true. That's how it really feels. And even though I "evened the score"(sounds dumb just saying it), I knew why I did it. She still did it when nothing was wrong. How can you prevent something when you have issues, if you can't prevent it when nothing was wrong? That's what is driving me nuts.


Mike~we actually run into this same kind of situation dealing with a woman who's been raped. Often one of the first things they do is change how they dress, how they look, their hair, how late they stay out, etc. and that's because part of them wants to think "I was raped because I wore a short skirt, therefore if I never wear a short skirt it will never happen to me again." It's like a protection mechanism that kicks in because this hurt you so much, in ways you can't even put a finger on, and across such a broad spectrum that you want to do whatever so it never, Ever, EVER happens again!!!

One of the harder things to help a survivor come to accept (and yep I consider a loyal spouse to be a survivor) is that from this point forward it will never, ever be "the way it was" again. THEY are forever changed, and the relationship is forever changed. Whatever happens from this point forward will be to choose to either build something altogether new...or not. Part of that is because "the way it was" actually was a castle in the sky..and you may have thought you had "a happy marriage" or a successful family or whatever, but clearly it wasn't. There were clearly some foundational issues. So "what you had" will never come back...and part of what (I hope) we can help you with here is accepting that fact and moving into the future. 

One thing I do note is that your counselor does have a point to some degree--namely you don't really have to know more details because you already know she committed adultery and knowing additional details won't change the facts. Likewise, if you hold onto anger and refuse to forgive--whether you reconcile with your spouse or not--in the end it harms YOU. These things are true...*BUT *(and this is a huge but) the way that it's being presented sounds more like you're being "told" rather than being taught or shown how to reach that conclusion on your own. I bring this up because it sounds like maybe your counselor is younger or maybe not as experienced in dealing with this kind of trauma. If that's the case, I would suggest that you remember that counselor's are humans too and not infallible  You may want to stick with it and see if both of you can grow from the experience.



> I am going to finish up the counseling, but I am honestly on the fence of staying or leaving, I guess I am not man enough to handle betrayal, or man enough to offer forgivness. I never grew up around infidelity, so I was never prepared for handling it and what it comes with. There should be relationship classes in schools for teenagers to prepare them for what relationships come with. Lol.


Here's a good example for you--you may want to use this as an example in your next counseling session! This affair is like a great big puzzle with a lot of pieces. Right now your wife has all the pieces and sees the picture that the puzzle makes, and doesn't really like the picture. At the same time, right now you do not have all the pieces and you are desperately trying to use what pieces you do have to put the puzzle together and see "the big picture"...but you can't do it because you don't have some of the pieces you need to fit the puzzle together. Sometimes you don't need every piece of a puzzle to get the border in and enough of the picture to see what the picture is going to be...but without a couple of the key pieces, YOU can't tell if that white is a cloud, a flower, or the puff of a gunshot! 

THAT is partly why you want to know a few more pieces. You know there was an affair--that's like the border is in. But other than that, you don't see the picture yet, and seeing the big picture is partly how you will be able to decide how to protect yourself. If she chooses to not give you pieces (and she may) why then it seems entirely reasonable to me for you to feel like you may not be able to stay. Any marriage that has been betrayed and then is followed up with "I'm not giving you what you need to protect yourself" sounds like a relationship that has some issues to me. Now, you may well have some work to do on yourself learning how to let go of what you "thought you had" and embracing that anything from here on out is all new...it will never be "the way it was"....but that's reasonable.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Affaircare said:


> Here's a good example for you--you may want to use this as an example in your next counseling session! This affair is like a great big puzzle with a lot of pieces. Right now your wife has all the pieces and sees the picture that the puzzle makes, and doesn't really like the picture. At the same time, right now you do not have all the pieces and you are desperately trying to use what pieces you do have to put the puzzle together and see "the big picture"...but you can't do it because you don't have some of the pieces you need to fit the puzzle together. Sometimes you don't need every piece of a puzzle to get the border in and enough of the picture to see what the picture is going to be...but without a couple of the key pieces, YOU can't tell if that white is a cloud, a flower, or the puff of a gunshot


:iagree:

That's part of Joseph's letter (see below)



> _To Whomever,
> 
> I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly.
> 
> ...


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