# Divorce for no reason?



## Blondebetty (Dec 27, 2021)

My husband and I have been married almost 15 years and have 2 kids, ages 5 and 6. We got married when I was 18. Over the past few years I have been very unhappy. Of course there’s been times or moments where things were good during that time, but overall I’m just not happy in our relationship. I usually bear the brunt of the load such as cleaning up, doing the shopping, laundry, chores, etc. After many discussions he did take over making dinner and doing the bills. He helps with chores and things occasionally as well. We barely have sex. I like physical affection/touch and need that connection, but he just doesn’t have a high drive. I have discussed with him my needs regarding sex and he will try for like a week and then it goes back to normal. He’s a wonderful father and I know he loves me and would be devastated if I left. I feel selfish for wanting to leave. He really is a good man but I am not getting what I need. My question is how do I ask for a divorce when he really hasn’t even done anything wrong??


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## Blondebetty (Dec 27, 2021)

I am aware I don’t have to ask. I don’t want to destroy him but he also deserves someone that loves him and appreciates him. I feel like I deserve the same, I just don’t think we’re able to be that for each other. I’m just looking for advice/others experiences etc I guess. This is all terrifying.


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

Blondebetty said:


> He really is a good man but I am not getting what I need. My question is how do I ask for a divorce when he really hasn’t even done anything wrong??


Well, my ex told me that there was something that she wanted to talk to me about without the kids and took me to the back porch. She then talked about all the things that made staying with me something she didn't want to continue. I forget whether she gave me the "these are the things I still admire or appreciate about you..." or the "These are the things that make me want to leave..." first. Doesn't matter really. I was told over and over that I hadn't done anything wrong but was just the wrong kind of person for her. _meh_

Some dos and don'ts:

Don't give false hope. If you're done without the possibility reconciliation then don't lie and give false hope.

Be fair and balanced. Each of you is probably entitled to half the marital assets and half of the time with the kids.

Do stay civil around the kids as much as possible.

Don't take the initial emotional reaction personally. You've taken time to process the end of the relationship while still with the support of the (soon to be ex) spouse. Practice patience and compassion.

Do the legwork of dealing with the end of the relationship keeping in mind the fairness proviso above. You're in a more stable headspace than he will be so it should be your responsibility to deal with the bureaucratic process of dissolving the marriage. Don't take advantage of it though.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Sounds like you may not be compatible. It takes two for a marriage to work.


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

Blondebetty said:


> After many discussions he did take over making dinner and doing the bills. He helps with chores and things occasionally as well.


I should also mention that if he's made changes and stuck to them and he still gets the boot, there's grounds for some bitterness. You should 100% be ready for that.


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## Blondebetty (Dec 27, 2021)

He has made some changes but not nearly enough to make the load balanced by any means. I’m not looking to get in another relationship, honestly we got married so young I just feel like we are both completely different people now. I appreciate all your insight.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

You say he hasn’t done anything wrong, but he is withholding sex, is that right? That can’t be easy for you. Yet you also mention that you would like him to have someone that desires and appreciates him. Which is confusing, as I’m not sure who is avoiding who sexually?


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## Trident (May 23, 2018)

This thread exemplifies the reason that getting married young is foolish. 

People are nowhere near mature enough to make lifelong commitments and even worse, sometimes they have children before they're even in their 20s. 

They grow up and suddenly it's like "wtf am I doing with this person I said I'd be with forever, what was I thinking?".


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## Blondebetty (Dec 27, 2021)

Marc878 said:


> Sounds like you may not be compatible. It takes two for a marriage to work.





Luckylucky said:


> You say he hasn’t done anything wrong, but he is withholding sex, is that right? That can’t be easy for you. Yet you also mention that you would like him to have someone that desires and appreciates him. Which is confusing, as I’m not sure who is avoiding who sexually?


I can see where that sounds confusing. I usually am the one that initiates sex and usually get denied for some bs reason. We have sex maybe 1-2 times a month and trying to get any physical affection from him is nearly impossible. It hurts and makes me feel very unwanted and unattractive. I’ve never denied him sex. I was just meaning he deserves someone that is maybe more compatible and on the same wave length as far as affection goes, like that doesn’t need physical touch as often or something.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Deleted, irrelevant due to new info from OP


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## Blondebetty (Dec 27, 2021)

Trident said:


> This thread exemplifies the reason that getting married young is foolish.
> 
> People are nowhere near mature enough to make lifelong commitments and even worse, sometimes they have children before they're even in their 20s.
> 
> They grow up and suddenly it's like "wtf am I doing with this person I said I'd be with forever, what was I thinking?".


I agree but at our ages I needed to get out of a bad home environment and he was joining the military. We loved each other but absolutely rushed into it. We were young and thought we knew everything.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Wow, he’ll only have sex with you 1-2x a month.

That alone is an enormous reason to end you marriage.


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## Blondebetty (Dec 27, 2021)

Luckylucky said:


> I have a friend who has had similar grievances for years, it started with her wanting more help around the house with the kids and chores. So at the moment, he’s 3 years into almost being a househusband, and it she’s been denying sex for years, because she found his lack of help unattractive. He’s almost whittled down his work to a few days a week, because he’s been so busy making improvements for her. The perfect husband really. All of this with demands and ultimatums and threats of divorce if he doesn’t change. But he has changed into more than what she asked for. And she’s still not into him. So in five years time, when he’s done all you asked for and more? Will you like the new man you always wanted?


I’m sorry I don’t see how that correlates exactly. It’s been 15 years and the few changes that have been made aren’t long lasting.I want a partner not a roommate.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Do you work full time?
Can you support yourself?
Have you two ever done counseling where you were completely honest with each other?


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## Blondebetty (Dec 27, 2021)

Personal said:


> Wow, he’ll only have sex with you 1-2x a month.
> 
> That alone is an enormous reason to end you marriage.


I just feel so selfish using that as a part of why I want a divorce. I have asked him multiple times to give more effort though. I’m not saying we have to have sex everyday but a few times a week or even just showing signs of being interested in me. Like hugging or kissing anything.


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## Blondebetty (Dec 27, 2021)

Beach123 said:


> Do you work full time?
> Can you support yourself?
> Have you two ever done counseling where you were completely honest with each other?


We both work full time and I can support myself financially. We have not done counseling but I have had conversations with him as well as written letters stating how I feel so he had time to process and think about what he wanted to say so I didn’t put pressure on him to respond. I’m currently starting therapy for myself as well.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

What do you hope to gain from counseling?


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## Blondebetty (Dec 27, 2021)

Beach123 said:


> What do you hope to gain from counseling?


Well there’s quite a bit of childhood trauma that is on my mind all the time lately. I’m struggling trying to be the best mom for my kids and feeling like I’m failing at that all the time. I’m hoping if I can deal with some of this sh*t maybe I’ll be happier and not want to leave but I don’t think that’s going to be the case.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Blondebetty said:


> I am aware I don’t have to ask. I don’t want to destroy him but he also deserves someone that loves him and appreciates him. I feel like I deserve the same, I just don’t think we’re able to be that for each other. I’m just looking for advice/others experiences etc I guess. This is all terrifying.


You can just make it an easy divorce, splitting kiddy time assets down the middle, if he's amenable.


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## Quad73 (May 10, 2021)

Re your husband's promise, check out the "I'll Try Harder" thread by oldshirt. Good food for thought. 









“I’ll try harder”


This is a spin off from another post where the LL partner said that they will “try harder” and it got me thinking about the phrase “I’ll try harder.” When I first heard that, I found myself strangely offended but couldn’t my finger on why. I mean after all aren’t we supposed to commend...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

You said you feel loved when you are touched. Your dead bedroom is your #1 priority. 

I was in your shoes for many, many years with my wife getting 'ok' sex averaging twice a month. Don't wait like I did. Solve this now. You are young and have a lot of life left. Your other issues with him can be dealt with after the sex. 

Has he always been like this? Have him get his T levels checked out. Go to a sex therapist. If he doesn't want to try, you need to leave. It won't get better. Don't throw your life away without having a loving relationship with someone. I don't have sympathy for low sex drive people. Men or women. Those people need to find each other and enjoy sexless lives with themselves instead of dragging down someone else with a higher sex drive. 

Also, don't wait a lot of years to fix this like I did. My wife and I are in a better place these days, but my multiple year resentment is HARD to get over. I'm trying, but it is tough. Don't build years of resentment like I did. 

One thing js for certain, do not wait. Nothing will happen until you do something. Do not feel guilty for leaving your husband if he refuses to have sex with you. He is putting you in a prison with that crap behavior. He is making you vow to him that you won't be with another man, but then he won't have sex with you either. It is extremely selfish behavior.


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## Blondebetty (Dec 27, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> You said you feel loved when you are touched. Your dead bedroom is your #1 priority.
> 
> I was in your shoes for many, many years with my wife getting 'ok' sex averaging twice a month. Don't wait like I did. Solve this now. You are young and have a lot of life left. Your other issues with him can be dealt with after the sex.
> 
> ...


I’ve never looked at it that way. Thank you!
I did ask him to get his testosterone checked but he won’t. It wasn’t like this in the beginning, but has been like this probably the past 10 years or more. I’ve tried is there anything I can do differently to make him want to. I’ve tried to lose weight to see if that was an issue, that didn’t work. I’ve bought games, dice, toys, you name it and nothing has seemed to help.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Blondebetty said:


> Well there’s quite a bit of childhood trauma that is on my mind all the time lately. I’m struggling trying to be the best mom for my kids and feeling like I’m failing at that all the time. I’m hoping if I can deal with some of this sh*t maybe I’ll be happier and not want to leave but I don’t think that’s going to be the case.


Does your husband know you are seriously considering divorce? Or does he just think it’s idle talk?


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Blondebetty said:


> I’ve never looked at it that way. Thank you!
> I did ask him to get his testosterone checked but he won’t. It wasn’t like this in the beginning, but has been like this probably the past 10 years or more. I’ve tried is there anything I can do differently to make him want to. I’ve tried to lose weight to see if that was an issue, that didn’t work. I’ve bought games, dice, toys, you name it and nothing has seemed to help.


You will have NO ISSUES out in the dating market. I can assure you. Quality men would jump at the chance to be with someone that bonds through touch. 

If I was in your position, I would give him one last shot. Get your T levels checked. Get to therapy. If he refuses, tell him that it is OK. That is his choice. No one can make anyone else do what they want them to do. As such, you'll be filing for divorce so that you can go find a man that will treat you properly. Let him know that it is ok that he wants to live his life this way. Let him know that you support him in his choices...... just not as your husband. 

Then you need to MEAN IT. do not bluff. Follow through.


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## Blondebetty (Dec 27, 2021)

Beach123 said:


> Does your husband know you are seriously considering divorce? Or does he just think it’s idle talk?


He doesn’t know. He knows we’re not in a great spot and I’m struggling, but not that I’m considering divorce.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Blondebetty said:


> He doesn’t know. He knows we’re not in a great spot and I’m struggling, but not that I’m considering divorce.


So why not be honest with him and tell him?


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## Blondebetty (Dec 27, 2021)

Beach123 said:


> So why not be honest with him and tell him?


Well that’s kind of the whole point of my post. I felt selfish and like I didn’t have enough reasons per se. I’m scared and frustrated at myself that I can’t just be okay with how things are.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Blondebetty said:


> I just feel so selfish using that as a part of why I want a divorce. I have asked him multiple times to give more effort though. I’m not saying we have to have sex everyday but a few times a week or even just showing signs of being interested in me. Like hugging or kissing anything.


Your wants and needs are normal, and very reasonable.

.............................................................................

Suppose, I infer that I know why he is not interested in you sexually.

And suppose, I had $1000 dollars in an envelope and told you that you could have it, if you could properly identify why he does not want to have sex with you, what would you say?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Your husband should know that you're considering divorce. Tell him that you need to have an important conversation when the kids are in bed, so he's prepared. Don't put it off. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

I want to divorce you.

Seriously just come out and say it. Rip the band-aid off. If you give him a bunch of reasons why he is just going to double his effort for a while and it's clear you are already gone. Don't waste your time. 

He will get over you and probably meet someone else and be happy after a while.

Yes it's going to suck but your post makes it clear you are done trying.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Can i offer a really simple solution you can try instead of divorcing?
hire a maid.
Maid service can come in once a week, and thoroughly clean the entire house, for like $100 a time. then all you have to do is small stuff like doing the dishes after dinner, or cleaning up small spills.
It will give you a lot more free time, and your husband is now helping you by helping to pay the maid's bill.

You can do more still by having a drycleaner pick up your laundry, get a yard service to mow the lawn and fix up the flower beds, and so on. 

Get one of the online bill paying apps, and use it to AUTOMATICALLY handle the bills. Instead of writing checks and mailing bills, have it all done with the click of a mouse.

YOU do not have to be superwoman and do it all!

take your extra time now to go to college for night courses, take up a new hobby, take up a new sport, go for hikes in the woods, and so on. It will give you new exciting things to do while giving you and your husband some space/time apart from each other.

in other words, what you perceive as a "failed marriage", might just be an illusion because your life is filled up with boring tasks that you do not enjoy doing, nor perform them very well. free yourself from those tasks.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Relieving herself of the burden of chores will not affect her husband's aversion to physical touch. She'll just have more time to notice that he won't hold her hand, put his arm around her shoulders, pull her in for a bear hug, plant a sloppy kiss on her for the fun of it, pinch her butt, cop a feel or cuddle on the sofa with her.

Basically, she has a third child to care for.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Being untouched by the one you love is a dead end that will evaporate your soul little by little. You REALLY need to be honest and forthcoming with him immediately. The conversation isn’t a blame game ... it is a serious heart to heart about marriage requirements. I say you give him one last chance with him having the knowledge of divorce pending the outcome. It’s not fair for you to live like this but not fair to blind side him either. I’m a man and I can say that sometimes you need to hit us upside the head to make us listen ...... make sure he understands.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Talker67 said:


> Can i offer a really simple solution you can try instead of divorcing?
> hire a maid.
> Maid service can come in once a week, and thoroughly clean the entire house, for like $100 a time. then all you have to do is small stuff like doing the dishes after dinner, or cleaning up small spills.
> It will give you a lot more free time, and your husband is now helping you by helping to pay the maid's bill.
> ...


I’ve never seen the chore master husband get laid from his dead bed wife so I doubt it works in reverse as well.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I don't understand how a man can claim to be blindsided when the issue has been discussed multiple times and he has even attempted to change. It's insulting that he would need an ultimatum to consider her need for human touch. It wouldn't work, anyway, as he is how he is. This is a basic incompatibility issue. A leopard can't change its spots.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Blondilocks said:


> I don't understand how a man can claim to be blindsided when the issue has been discussed multiple times and he has even attempted to change. It's insulting that he would need an ultimatum to consider her need for human touch. It wouldn't work, anyway, as he is how he is. This is a basic incompatibility issue. A leopard can't change its spots.


I agree. While I do think she should tell him she's considering divorce the fact is that he's showing her who he is right now.

He knows she's unhappy but as long as she doesn't leave its not that important.

I'd be wary of him suddenly "getting it" and wanting to "fix" things once she tells him she wants out. It's not about her....it's about his life.


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## TurnedTurtle (May 15, 2019)

OP and her husband might read (or listen to the audio version) and discuss Gary Chapman's book, _The Five Love Languages_, if they are interested in trying to avoid divorce, or if they wish to better understand their incompatibility.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

@Blondilocks
@lifeistooshort

Yeah but what if that big slap in the face sends him to the doctor to get his levels checked.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

lifeistooshort said:


> I agree. While I do think she should tell him she's considering divorce the fact is that he's showing her who he is right now.
> 
> He knows she's unhappy but as long as she doesn't leave its not that important.
> 
> I'd be wary of him suddenly "getting it" and wanting to "fix" things once she tells him she wants out. It's not about her....it's about his life.


EXACTLY. And this is why you need to recognize basic, entrenched incompatibilities and accept that they will not change. Because they won't. 

If he enjoyed having sex with her, they would be having sex. If he enjoyed touching her in a loving way, he would be doing that. He is NOT. So any attempts on his part to "change" would be fake and wouldn't last, and therefore, be a waste of time.

From what she has said, I don't believe he appreciates or desires her as a woman and sexual partner....he likes his "wife appliance", and the life he has with her. And if she wants a man who desires HER as a woman, she is going to have to find a different man.


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## Blondebetty (Dec 27, 2021)

Blondilocks said:


> Relieving herself of the burden of chores will not affect her husband's aversion to physical touch. She'll just have more time to notice that he won't hold her hand, put his arm around her shoulders, pull her in for a bear hug, plant a sloppy kiss on her for the fun of it, pinch her butt, cop a feel or cuddle on the sofa with her.
> 
> Basically, she has a third child to care for.


Exactly!


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## Blondebetty (Dec 27, 2021)

TurnedTurtle said:


> OP and her husband might read (or listen to the audio version) and discuss Gary Chapman's book, _The Five Love Languages_, if they are interested in trying to avoid divorce, or if they wish to better understand their incompatibility.


I tried getting him to take quiz that helps you better understand your love language and he said it was too long. I know mine is physical touch but was hoping it would help us both by reading and understanding more about it, but he wasn’t interested.


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## Blondebetty (Dec 27, 2021)

LisaDiane said:


> EXACTLY. And this is why you need to recognize basic, entrenched incompatibilities and accept that they will not change. Because they won't.
> 
> If he enjoyed having sex with her, they would be having sex. If he enjoyed touching her in a loving way, he would be doing that. He is NOT. So any attempts on his part to "change" would be fake and wouldn't last, and therefore, be a waste of time.
> 
> From what she has said, I don't believe he appreciates or desires her as a woman and sexual partner....he likes his "wife appliance", and the life he has with her. And if she wants a man who desires HER as a woman, she is going to have to find a different man.


This is exactly how I’m feeling. I don’t feel like I should have to beg over and over for physical connection. If it makes him uncomfortable and he doesn’t want to do things like that then I don’t want to pressure him. It’s not going to end well if he’s doing out of obligation. I want him to want me. I just was feeling really selfish for wanting a divorce because of that reason. We have small children and to completely turn their world upside down is heart wrenching. I don’t want to do that, but at the same time feel like I deserve to be loved how I want and be happy.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Blondebetty said:


> I tried getting him to take quiz that helps you better understand your love language and he said it was too long. I know mine is physical touch but was hoping it would help us both by reading and understanding more about it, but he wasn’t interested.


Some men are oblivious to the idea that women usually need more than his existence to continue to be in love with them.
They often don't realize how serious it is, as a marriage principle, to love their spouse in a way they need until they are hit between the eyes with divorce papers.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

Blondebetty said:


> It wasn’t like this in the beginning, but has been like this probably the past 10 years or more.


Two things.

You knew for at least ten years that there was a serious problem in your marriage. Yet, you brought two children into the world WELL after that. Despite some of the claims to the otherwise, the long term harm done to children via divorce is irrefutable. They wouldn't choose to and shouldn't have to deal with Mom's new boyfriend and Dad's new girlfriend, and being shuffled around for 50/50 custody, and all the other **** that happens to their innocent existence when their parents decide to upturn the house.

Do you think that escaping a ''bad home environment'' at a young age, as you did, will not simply be repeated with your children? Is that ok with you? I'm not trying to guilt shame you, but I want for you to recognize a potential pattern. 

You're in a position right now to double down on the efforts to try to remedy this marriage. It could start with you finally dealing with your own childhood, and expanding from there, I can't speak to specifics, though.

Secondly, we (as TAM forum members) has nearly zero background to the deeper issues that can arise in either/both parties of this marriage after a lifetime of youth and 18 years of marriage. To distill it down to ''I don't get touched enough'', is simply not enough info to make an informed opinion.


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## Uniqueusername (Dec 24, 2021)

Blondebetty said:


> My husband and I have been married almost 15 years and have 2 kids, ages 5 and 6. We got married when I was 18. Over the past few years I have been very unhappy. Of course there’s been times or moments where things were good during that time, but overall I’m just not happy in our relationship. I usually bear the brunt of the load such as cleaning up, doing the shopping, laundry, chores, etc. After many discussions he did take over making dinner and doing the bills. He helps with chores and things occasionally as well. We barely have sex. I like physical affection/touch and need that connection, but he just doesn’t have a high drive. I have discussed with him my needs regarding sex and he will try for like a week and then it goes back to normal. He’s a wonderful father and I know he loves me and would be devastated if I left. I feel selfish for wanting to leave. He really is a good man but I am not getting what I need. My question is how do I ask for a divorce when he really hasn’t even done anything wrong??


It sounds like he improved on helping out with the chores. Which means the main issue is an incompatibility in sex drives between. He doesn’t want it as much as you do. No one is at fault but you’re not happy, and I can’t imagine him feeling like he can’t satisfy his wife is making him happy either. Although, you said he won’t get his hormone levels checked, so maybe he doesn’t care. Definitely time for a heart to heart.

Divorce is certainly one option but it’s not the only one. If your husband doesn’t have anything physically wrong with him, and you all want to stay married, your both going to have to meet half way. Maybe sex once per week is acceptable for both, or once per week plus another couple times during the month where he gives you a masterbatory assist and cuddles you naked while you play with your vibrator. If the issue is affection that can help. If it’s simply you want sex (just sex) maybe your husband would be willing to open up the marriage for you to have a boy toy. But only if your good at not catching feelings and if you guys can setup acceptable boundaries and stick to them.

Just thinking outside the box. Ultimately, if you/he wants to stay married you all are going to have to be proactive. He should see a doctor and you guys should find a good sex-positive therapist. Start by looking on AASECTs website. AASECT:: American Association of Sexuality Educators, Counselors and Therapists |


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Uniqueusername said:


> It sounds like he improved on helping out with the chores. Which means the main issue is an incompatibility in sex drives between. He doesn’t want it as much as you do. No one is at fault but you’re not happy, and I can’t imagine him feeling like he can’t satisfy his wife is making him happy either. Although, you said he won’t get his hormone levels checked, so maybe he doesn’t care. Definitely time for a heart to heart.
> 
> Divorce is certainly one option but it’s not the only one. If your husband doesn’t have anything physically wrong with him, and you all want to stay married, your both going to have to meet half way. Maybe sex once per week is acceptable for both, or once per week plus another couple times during the month where he gives you a masterbatory assist and cuddles you naked while you play with your vibrator. If the issue is affection that can help. If it’s simply you want sex (just sex) maybe your husband would be willing to open up the marriage for you to have a boy toy. But only if your good at not catching feelings and if you guys can setup acceptable boundaries and stick to them.
> 
> Just thinking outside the box. Ultimately, if you/he wants to stay married you all are going to have to be proactive. He should see a doctor and you guys should find a good sex-positive therapist. Start by looking on AASECTs website. AASECT:: American Association of Sexuality Educators, Counselors and Therapists |


I'd say yuck to these options.


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## Uniqueusername (Dec 24, 2021)

Livvie said:


> I'd say yuck to these options.


Well, I get that non-monogamy certainly is not for everyone but what’s wrong the other suggestions? Sex is a critical part in a marriage, and it doesn’t always happen like the fairy tails want us to believe. People have differing sex drives and different tastes. We have to be willing to find compromises that work for both parties. Simply saying to someone “you need to have more sex with me,” or from the other perspective “I’m not going to have the amount of sex you want,” is not helpful in giving relationships.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Uniqueusername said:


> Well, I get that non-monogamy certainly is not for everyone but what’s wrong the other suggestions? Sex is a critical part in a marriage, and it doesn’t always happen like the fairy tails want us to believe. People have differing sex drives and different tastes. We have to be willing to find compromises that work for both parties. Simply saying to someone “you need to have more sex with me,” or from the other perspective “I’m not going to have the amount of sex you want,” is not helpful in giving relationships.


I guess other suggestions aren't bad. However, since sex is part of what defines a marriage if a person has to sub it out what's the point of the marriage? So she can do all the chores and he isn't inconvenienced by losing his wife appliance? Further she has indicated she doesn't feel loved. He doesn't touch her or show affection. So she going to sub that out too?


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

I agree with OTF regarding the kids....Kids don't really care that much that their parents are getting touched/laid, all they want is safety and security....

Long term affection/sex in marriages and relationships is a very tricky and difficult aspect...Even ones that report "regular" sex may only be getting duty or "keep him/her off my back" type of affection/sex...Hardly satisfying....It may have something to do with a biological need to move on to another individual for genetic diversity that, I believe, is all programmed into us....That's been something I have considered.....Let's face it, practically no species on Earth does what we do in this area...If they did, they would find themselves extinct in one generation...

For men, IME, it boils down to a couple of things...

-Disinterest due to lukewarm initial sexual interest that just went away over time...
-Loss of interest due to physical changes or lack of attention to hygiene, femininity, etc..of the partner(VERY common)
-General physiological loss of drive.... This I think is overblown, though... A guy could be dead disinterested in one woman, yet turn into a raging animal with a new woman.. yet the first thing women think of is yelling at the guy to get his T checked...Not that its necessarily a bad idea but any guy knows this and need not be reminded...If he suspects a problem he'll address it..
-General stress(financial, career, etc)....
-He's getting it from someone else and you don't know about it..

The "problem" is guys are notorious compartmentalizers... They can live completely normal life, bust a nut a day to PornHub, and live their lives undisrupted... Some think it's ridiculous that someone would choose their hand over a willing female, but tell that to the millions of guys doing this very thing...Same with affairs....You hear it all the time...Guy has his side woman, yet the rest of his life is in seemingly perfect order...He could go on seemingly forever like this..

I dunno, OP...The difficult thing here is to see if you can get him to be brutally honest with you about what is going on... Its a gauntlet though,....No guy wants to tell a woman she isn't attractive, isn't thin enough, annoying, whatever enough to spark any interest.. Seemingly whatever he tells you will probably break you emotionally...So he'll continue to kick the can down the road..as he is doing now..

You can't live like you are now, so you may need to put the screws to him for an answer...I guess the only thing there is if he decides to then comply(with a gun to his head), then will that be sufficient??

I wish you well.


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## Uniqueusername (Dec 24, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> I guess other suggestions aren't bad. However, since sex is part of what defines a marriage if a person has to sub it out what's the point of the marriage? So she can do all the chores and he isn't inconvenienced by losing his wife appliance? Further she has indicated she doesn't feel loved. He doesn't touch her or show affection. So she going to sub that out too?


That’s fair. Which is why I clarified that if it’s simply she wants more sex (just sex) than that option could work. But you’re right, if it’s love and attention she needs, which it sounds like it is, outsourcing sex won’t cut it.


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## Blondebetty (Dec 27, 2021)

Thank you all for your insight/opinions.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

FWIW if you’re unhappy enough to be considering divorce due to this I know how that feels and it’s awful.

What worked for me is to really look at myself and clean up any unattractive behaviors, which took a while.

At that point I just started a conversation. You’re not happy with how things are and if they continue then you can’t keep doing it and ultimately it will end in separation and divorce. You’re willing to work on it and do any changes, but if intimacy doesn’t improve that’s it. 

Husband and wife is a sexual relationship and no sex = no relationship.


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## Blondebetty (Dec 27, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> FWIW if you’re unhappy enough to be considering divorce due to this I know how that feels and it’s awful.
> 
> What worked for me is to really look at myself and clean up any unattractive behaviors, which took a while.
> 
> ...


We have had a conversation before about how he feels like I’m nagging at times so I have worked really hard to not do that anymore, but now he just tells me why didn’t you remind me or tell me to do something. It’s like I can’t win. I need to sit him down and let him know how I’m feeling again, it’s just such a scary predicament and I’m afraid at making the wrong decisions.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Blondebetty said:


> I need to sit him down and let him know how I’m feeling again, it’s just such a scary predicament and I’m afraid at making the wrong decisions.


You should wait until you’re certain you can follow through on any ultimatum. Once you are then the path is clear and you won’t worry about it.

I recently had to change my approach. I had my wife initiating most days of the week. She had some health issues earlier in the month and stopped. So I was like ok well I will wait her out. I started to get frustrated. I knew she hadn’t had any physical issues for several days and no initiation from her.

So I just started tracking her down and initiating when I felt like it and she was good to go. Why? No clue? What changed? No idea… If she had no receptiveness then we would have had issues again and it’s back to the 180.

I have found she responds to very subtle 180 behavioral changes from me. If I pull away slightly she can detect it and she responds to that.

A lot of the books on this are written from the standpoint of the man being HD as it is much more common but I think the advice works. Make yourself more attractive and start to separate from your partner. If they notice and react to it then great. If they don’t, then hey you’re a new improved you and ready to leave them behind.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I feel for you, but I'm not sure my experience can help you. I'm the high drive partner, and we are a lot older than you.
I've been guilty of what CCPower is saying. I let my health and weight slide. I wasn't much fun to have sex with. ED is a real sex killer. 
I've been more attentive. I don't let he fake it. We accept that failures will sometimes happen.

You recently said something that hit home. He complained about you nagging. I went through His Needs, Her Needs and scheduled a time to talk about it with Mrs. N. She told me to back off and stop pressuring her. Well there were a few lessons I learned from that.
Stress isn't fixed by making demands on the stressed person. 
She is a heck of a lot more concerned about her comfort, than about my emotional needs.
If I don't keep the pressure on, Sex drops to one in 21days, or less.
Roll with rejection. I would estimate her rejection rate at 30%. I don't keep records, and I initiate a lot less than I used to.

Anyway, I'm constantly considering divorce. Been thinking about it for 8 years or so. But , Like you, I'm not interested in getting into another relationship, so there is no clock ticking for me to act now. No real incentive to cut the cord.

I guess the one question I have for you is the same as Sun C mars, If you knew that he was giving sex to someone else (female or male, or even just a porn habit) Would your decision change?


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## Blondebetty (Dec 27, 2021)

I would definitely be out if he was cheating but I don’t believe that is the case at all. He is a good man and I know he cares for me I just don’t think we’re able to meet each other’s needs anymore.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Blondebetty said:


> I would definitely be out if he was cheating but I don’t believe that is the case at all. He is a good man and I know he cares for me I just don’t think we’re able to meet each other’s needs anymore.


And what about porn. We have had several women come here who have discovered they are being turned down because the husband is spanking to porn. A few had no idea the husband even watched porn.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

hamadryad said:


> The "problem" is guys are notorious compartmentalizers... They can live completely normal life, bust a nut a day to PornHub, and live their lives undisrupted...


Given internet traffic statistics the PornHub theory is very credible IMO. This is something easily corrected- if he really wants to. Most men will hang onto this dirty little habit like it’s a God given right though.

I’m not buying the theory that a man’s sex drive falls off a cliff at age 40 or 50… only if he’s terribly unhealthy.

Might make you feel better though if you had the knowledge that he was being unfaithful in mind or body. Maybe snoop his devices… I think every wife has the right to do that.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Livvie said:


> I'd say yuck to these options.


I agree, Livvie. Open marriage is NOT the way to go. At that point, just divorce. She could fall for the other guy, her husband will probably freak out that his wife is being used as someone else's sex toy and he will grow to resent her. A marriage is for 2, not for outsiders to get involved in. Maybe get him some counseling or something is one option. However, also understand that he works and helps around the house, maybe he's spent ? And as a SAHM (I think you may be ?), and after you drop off your kids at school, is he going to be ok with working while you are out with other guys ? That certainly will lead to a divorce. Many such relationships results in a lack of equity issue, jealousy and once pandora's box is opened, it rarely can be closed.

My suggestion is that you take any such idea to the back yard and bury it. 

BTW, I am not saying that you brought it up or are entertaining it, just cautioning against it


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

It feels like things have been allowed, by both parties, to get to a really bad place. There is no leadership present (and leadership here means somebody taking the responsibility to try and save the marriage).

Counseling should have taken place long ago. Clearly both are in need of individual counseling and for him, a full physical workup. He needs to be presented with a choice. And it’s quite possible he has no idea how bad things are.

Neither party appears willing to meet their partner “where they are.” And if you can’t find that place, you can’t communicate, you can’t offer love in a way that’s meaningful TO THE PARTNER. The 5 love languages doesn’t go far enough; it’s too much filled with hopium and not enough scarium. Makes it too easy foreach partner to say “Well, if he or she just did THAT, everything would be fine. It’s not that easy.

You have to want what’s best for your partner almost as much as you want what you think is best for you. Sacrifice is key. It’s going to hurt. It’s going to take time. And you really have to block out things that look like selfishness, disguised as needs.

And of course, look for where in your journey things went wrong, and what opportunities you passed up that might have changed things. Because patterns tend to repeat themselves in future relationships, or even relationships in repair.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Blondebetty said:


> I agree but at our ages I needed to get out of a bad home environment and he was joining the military. We loved each other but absolutely rushed into it. We were young and thought we knew everything.


Your REASON for doing it is immaterial - the fact remains that you foolishly married way too young.

NOW, you're dealing with the fall-out of that bad choice.

It's not the end of the world.

And considering that you ALSO work a full-time job, this lazy ass isn't _"helping"_ you with the domestic chores!!! If you *both* work then you BOTH have a 50% share of the domestic chores. Calling it _*"helping you" *_means that 100% of the chores are yours and he's doing you some kind of big favor by pitching in, so take that phrase *"helping me"* out of your vocabulary.

No wonder you're frustrated with this jerk. He acts as though he's doing YOU a favor when he does something!!!! Since he obviously can't support you all on his own, I guess YOU'RE doing _him_ a favor working full-time, right? I mean, since he wants to be traditional where it BENEFITS him - expecting you to do 100% of the domestic chores and child-rearing - then logic would dictate that he would be *against* you working outside the home. Or is he only traditional when it benefits him?

I'm guessing it's only when it benefits him.

OP, it's not a disgrace to admit you've grown apart. Go see a divorce attorney just to get an idea of what to expect in your particular situation. Nothing wrong with doing that.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

I disa


CatholicDad said:


> Given internet traffic statistics the PornHub theory is very credible IMO. *This is something easily corrected- if he really wants to. Most men will hang onto this dirty little habit like it’s a God given right though.*


Respectfully disagree on this point, for this reason...

The porn/masturbation habit isn't some devious method to deny a partner sex....In most cases, it's a coping mechanism for a man that, for whatever reason, lost interest in sex from his woman...If he quit porn cold turkey, the problems that led him to that point won't miraculously just disappear....He won't then view his wife as some goddess, otherwise he would have done that already..That's too easy...In fact, perhaps it will only force him to make a decision of leaving her or getting it from someone else...


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## Blondebetty (Dec 27, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> And what about porn. We have had several women come here who have discovered they are being turned down because the husband is spanking to porn. A few had no idea the husband even watched porn.


I don’t believe so, but not 100%. We have watched it together, but I’m not sure if he does. He says no


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## Blondebetty (Dec 27, 2021)

wmn1 said:


> I agree, Livvie. Open marriage is NOT the way to go. At that point, just divorce. She could fall for the other guy, her husband will probably freak out that his wife is being used as someone else's sex toy and he will grow to resent her. A marriage is for 2, not for outsiders to get involved in. Maybe get him some counseling or something is one option. However, also understand that he works and helps around the house, maybe he's spent ? And as a SAHM (I think you may be ?), and after you drop off your kids at school, is he going to be ok with working while you are out with other guys ? That certainly will lead to a divorce. Many such relationships results in a lack of equity issue, jealousy and once pandora's box is opened, it rarely can be closed.
> 
> My suggestion is that you take any such idea to the back yard and bury it.
> 
> BTW, I am not saying that you brought it up or are entertaining it, just cautioning against it


We both work full time and an open marriage would not fix the issue. It’s deeper for me than just sex so yes I agree that isn’t a good idea for us.


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## Blondebetty (Dec 27, 2021)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Your REASON for doing it is immaterial - the fact remains that you foolishly married way too young.
> 
> NOW, you're dealing with the fall-out of that bad choice.
> 
> ...


Well I used to be part time when our kids were toddlers to avoid daycare costs so I get that thrown in my face frequently. I am a nurse so I used to work three 12-14 hour shifts and he always said I had 4 days off 🙄 but now I’m full time m-f so we work the same. I agree it shouldn’t be considered helping, it’s shared responsibility but he will lay on the couch on his phone watching me fold 4 baskets of laundry and not do anything. If I ask for him to help I get hit with I just want to relax and if I don’t and get frustrated then I get hit with why do you have an attitude. Honestly after discussing all of this with all of you, it’s becoming more clear that there are way more issues going on that I am holding onto.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Blondebetty said:


> We have had a conversation before about how he feels like I’m nagging at times so I have worked really hard to not do that anymore, but now he just tells me why didn’t you remind me or tell me to do something. It’s like I can’t win. I need to sit him down and let him know how I’m feeling again, it’s just such a scary predicament and I’m afraid at making the wrong decisions.


It’s not a wrong decision if you’ve made yourself clear that your needs aren’t being met and you are unhappy. Since he isn’t taking the responsibility for his part in it - it’s time to let him know that you want a divorce since your needs aren’t being met.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Blondebetty said:


> I don’t believe so, but not 100%. We have watched it together, but I’m not sure if he does. He says no


Well it seems some men think it is way easier to spank for 5 minutes to porn than have an entire romantic interlude with their wife who may actually need more than 5 minutes. So don't rule it out.
It doesn't seem like the whole relationship is all that good if he's dumping everything on you, he's not affectionate and there's no sex. So divorce isn't for no good reason.
However if you want to fix it you have to know what the problem is.
1. He's no longer attracted to you which could be lots of things 
2. He's using porn for release
3. He's got another woman
4. He has physical issues that are stopping him
5. He's just Lower Drive but why the big drop?
6. Some men have a complex that lowers their attraction to the mother of their children. Did the drop occur after child birth?


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## Blondebetty (Dec 27, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> Well it seems some men think it is way easier to spank for 5 minutes to porn than have an entire romantic interlude with their wife who may actually need more than 5 minutes. So don't rule it out.
> It doesn't seem like the whole relationship is all that good if he's dumping everything on you, he's not affectionate and there's no sex. So divorce isn't for no good reason.
> However if you want to fix it you have to know what the problem is.
> 1. He's no longer attracted to you which could be lots of things
> ...


Yeah it did. I also had my children 22 months apart and breastfed them both so he felt “neglected” at times because he wasn’t getting enough attention (his words) but that was years ago now.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Blondebetty said:


> Yeah it did. I also had my children 22 months apart and breastfed them both so he felt “neglected” at times because he wasn’t getting enough attention (his words) but that was years ago now.


Yes that was many years ago but did the sex ever rebound? Did the attention he paid you ever rebound? Did you ever start paying attention to him again? 

He could have the Mother complex or he could just be holding onto resentment. However. Looking at your posts I have to wonder do you really want to save your marriage? Your husband doesn't seem to husbandly. Is he good with the kids? Does he do anything with them? Does he bath them, feed them, or take them to the doctor?


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## Blondebetty (Dec 27, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> Yes that was many years ago but did the sex ever rebound? Did the attention he paid you ever rebound? Did you ever start paying attention to him again?
> 
> He could have the Mother complex or he could just be holding onto resentment. However. Looking at your posts I have to wonder do you really want to save your marriage? Your husband doesn't seem to husbandly. Is he good with the kids? Does he do anything with them? Does he bath them, feed them, or take them to the doctor?


I don’t think it recovered. I have tried to make us a priority. Honestly I don’t know if I want to save it anymore either….
He is really good with them actually. He plays with them and does his share of caring for them. As far as a father goes, he’s an excellent one.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Blondebetty said:


> We both work full time and an open marriage would not fix the issue. It’s deeper for me than just sex so yes I agree that isn’t a good idea for us.


ok. Good. Best wishes


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

hamadryad said:


> Respectfully disagree on this point, for this reason...
> 
> The porn/masturbation habit isn't some devious method to deny a partner sex....In most cases, it's a coping mechanism for a man that, for whatever reason, lost interest in sex from his woman...If he quit porn cold turkey, the problems that led him to that point won't miraculously just disappear....He won't then view his wife as some goddess, otherwise he would have done that already..That's too easy...In fact, perhaps it will only force him to make a decision of leaving her or getting it from someone else...


Before porn took over the world I knew many men attracted to anything remotely feminine, or warm, or wet… but I do agree- a man won’t give up his porn/masturbation without a fight. If he truly did though… I think he’d suddenly be much more interested (and less resentful). Porn allows men to get finicky or aloof about sex.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

The his drive just dropped off theory. 


CatholicDad said:


> I’m not buying the theory that a man’s sex drive falls off a cliff at age 40 or 50… only if he’s terribly unhealthy.


According to the time line, this dropped off when he was 23 - 24, Probably still serving in the military. If that is the case then good fitness and good health care. But High stress.

Stress is a suspect here.
The other is OP's weight (she mentioned it)

That is about it. The man is dead from the waist down. And emotionally unavailable. Who cares what chores he does?


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