# Has she cheated or not?



## TexasCat10

Hello, this is my 1st time posting on any site so I am extremely nervous. I am desperate for some others opinions/advice/experience on my situation. Thank you to anyone who takes the time to read my whole dilemma. I greatly appreciate any advice you can give!
My story goes like this -
I married my high school sweetheart 4 years ago. We were not always together but seemed to always have wanted to be. I left our hometown after college to explore the world. We did not keep in touch.
Ran back into her at a wedding ~10 yrs. later and everything seemed to fall in place. My job was flexible so I could relocate back home, she was finishing her Master's w/ a good job lined up. We were both in our late 20's and seemed ready for the next step in life. So we got married. May have been the happiest day of my life so far!
We got a house and were starting to think about starting a family. We have some student loan debt so we decided to hold off a little while on the family to be more stable financially.
My wife had never given me any reasons to question any of her actions until about 4 months after our marriage. She started getting random texts late at night from her Ex (the last guy she dated before we got married). 
- _sidenote _- I found out their ending was not the best scenario as she pretty much left him for me. I was told they were broken up when we met at the wedding and she did not see their relationship continuing in any way. So I was ok asking her out that 1st time. I am very respective of someone's relationship and would not want to be the reason for a break up.
Back to the texts...
I don’t want everyone to think that I was being nosy at this point in our relationship (yet). She had the type of phone that flashes when a new text is there, and the text shows up on the phone's screen until you open it. So I see the name of her Ex and the 1st few lines of the text and decide to open it. It was some lyrics from a country love song. So I asked her about it and she tells me not to worry, he is just heartbroken bc we got married. I told her that I thought it was inappropriate for an Ex to contact her and asked her to nicely ask him to stop. She said she did.
Fast forward to the 7th month of our marriage. 
I had been cheated on before so I made a note of that Ex's ph. #. My wife started acting a little distant and strange so I got this painful feeling in my stomach. I had also just been out of town on business for a week during which she did not answer or return some of my calls. So I decided to cross reference the Ex's ph. # on the last month's ph. bill. To my crushing surprise I found out my worse fear. There were hours and hours of conversation. And over 10 hours just in the week I was out of town. I was devastated. I checked back 3 months and saw that activity of long phone conversations started only 3 months after our marriage. Around the same time as those supposedly harmless texts from her Ex started and she supposedly handled!
So now my dilemma began. What do I do? How do I confront her?
I decided to just ask her. But ask in a way that she had to admit to the guilt. So I simply ask: “Do you ever talk to your Ex?" She looked me straight in the eye and says "NO." I am even more devastated! So now she has lied and maybe cheated!
We go to talk it out. I am ready to leave her. I really try to be a good husband. I can be a little nagging because of my OCD (like things neat and clean) but I always put her 1st. So to be lied and cheated on when I carefully waited for the right girl and did not get married until I was absolutely ready and had no desire to be w/ any other women, will not be tolerated!
She bawls her eyes out and tells me how she is just talking to him; never had they had any physical contact during those months of excessive talking. She explains how he is sad and she just feels bad bc of the way she ended it w/ him.
I forgive her and believe her. I love her so much, I was just not ready to give up on what I think could be a great partnership.
Our physical relationship had been falling off and from this point was back to where it was early in our relationship. So I began to gain trust in her again.
Fast forward 14 months.
My wife began to have that same distant behavior as before. We only had sex one or twice a month. My wishes in the marriage were not really being met. I was under the impression that a couple was supposed to work at the marriage to make the other spouse happy. I do what I think are the things a good husband would do. I cook, I do dishes, laundry, clean etc. I search message boards on how to make a marriage work to make sure I am doing the right things and not making my wife NOT want to be w/ me physically. This had gone on for a few months so I started to get that same pain in my gut as i did 14 months ago.
This caused my curiosity to start going crazy. Could she be doing it again? So, against my conscious (I know invading privacy is not conducive to a good marriage), I checked her texts. Amazingly I found just what I was looking for but certainly did not want to see. There were 100's of texts going back and forth w/ that Ex. All of which were very inappropriate for a married woman to have. "I miss you's, good morning babe", etc. I was shaking and did not know what to do. This discovery was around 3 am, so I wasn’t sure if I should wake her or discuss in the morning. I could not sleep anyway so I decided to wake her. As you can imagine she was blindsided by this. Frantically apologized but didn’t really seem sorry. She said it was just fantasy. Blah Blah... I was really ready to call it quits now.
But again, my heart still yearned for her love. I still feel we have such a potential if she would just join my team.
What I have to express is that when my wife is happy she does seem like the perfect fit. She is beautiful, has a great career, comes from a great family and gets along great w/ mine. Why can’t we just be happy together? Why do I seem controlling bc I ask things of her that would make me happy? I would do just about anything she asks me if it made her happy. And I do!
Fast forward 9 months -
Things in our marriage have been up and down. Sometimes they are so great and I feel things are going to be ok, then a fight over something very minute occurs and I am left wondering if we will make it.
So lately I have been having that pain in my stomach again. Our bedroom activity has become very routine and sparse. Maybe once or twice a month and she just seems to be going through the motions.
We have been going out w/ my male friends a lot lately. A lot of drinking and fun ensues. This may seem like things are going great but one recently divorced friend of mine has my suspicions up again. He does not seem like my wife's type at 1st. Kind of chubby and out of shape. I usually would not be worried about this guy taking any girl away from me (we have been friends for 15 yrs. and has not happened). But he has an attitude that comes off as tough even though he couldn’t fight his way out of a wet paper bag! (_sorry, I'm upset_) And I have recently started to think my wife is very attracted to that kind of attitude (I am more of a gentle giant).
I hadn’t really thought much of this until about 3 months ago.
We went out for a mutual friend's BDay (female) to a local bar. Nothing seemed out of the ordinary until I started to notice the extended period of time they kept leaving to go smoke cigarettes outside (no smoking inside the bar). 
- _Sidenote _- My wife used to smoke in high school, quit in college but she will still have a cigarette or 2 when she has had some alcoholic drinks. She usually would never have more than 2 as she knows I hate cigarette smoke. But this is one of the other red flags regarding this friend's relationship w/ my wife. None of my other friends smoke so they have bonded w/ it. Every time he is over our house or out w/ us for dinner/drinks (which has been at least once a week for the last 4 months since he divorced) they share nearly a whole pack of cigarettes. More info to come on this scenario and how it’s raised my suspicions this time.
We were at the bar for about 3 hours and they were gone for 30 minutes at a time for at least 4-5 times to smoke. I was even approached by another group of females who were not deterred by my wedding ring during one of their smoke breaks. I was scared my wife was going to come back and catch me talking to them. She isn’t a crazy jealous type but can have some major issues w/ the scenario I was being put in. Luckily the group finally noticed I was married (bc I had to tell them) and left. My wife was gone this whole time so my worry was for not. I even told her I was just about to be picked up by these chicks and she didn’t really seem to care. Oh well, it was nice to know I am still desirable to other women even though I would never cheat! 
The next red flag came when we had some of my buddies over for dinner and drinks. Another friend came over late and missed dinner so we ordered out to grab him something. The place was w/in walking distance so he and I went to get his food. I left my suspicious friend alone w/ my wife. Like I said, I would never think my wife would be attracted to this guy so I didn’t think much of it at the time, but while I was out getting the food, the weekend out where I noticed the long smoke breaks popped in my head. So I started wondering. Luckily the food was ready very quickly so we were only gone about 15 minutes. Came back home where both my wife and my suspicious friend had been smoking on the back porch, but neither one of them were there. My suspicion went through the roof! I started to go upstairs but came back down to check the bathroom in the hall. When I came back down the stairs the suspicious friend popped out of nowhere in the kitchen. I knocked on the bathroom door after waiting a little while (longer than it should have taken for my wife to do her biz) and asked what she was doing. She seemed guilty but that could have just been my adrenaline. I asked her straight up if she had been in there w/ my friend. She said I was crazy! What I am talking about? I am just drunk! 
I let it go.
I did agree w/ her, though. It was crazy for me to think she would like him. Of all my friends, he would probably be my least worry.
But over the last couple of months have continued to notice their growing closer along w/ her increased smoking. She even has started smoking when he is not around. And not only when she is drinking. I confronted her about it and she got extremely defensive w/ me. I let that go as well. I really don’t want to seem controlling.
But their growing relationship got my suspicions up so high I got the idea that maybe I should check the phone bill like I had before w/ my wife's Ex BF. She has no reason to speak on the phone w/ this friend of mine. Outside of my friendship w/ him, he was not her friend. So upon my search I found a 50 minute conversation w/ him from the Monday after the night out for my friend's BDay where the excessive smoke breaks occurred.
I also found a couple other very late night conversations of 15-30 minutes. One 30 min call was on a Saturday night when the guys were over and I had passed out earlier than the rest of the group (had too many drinks, not enough sleep). Isn’t it strange for her to talk on the phone to him at 12:30 am for 30 minutes when I am asleep?
Now this has me feeling exactly the same way as when I caught her talking to her Ex BF in the early stages of our marriage. But even worse is that if my friend is guilty, he has betrayed me too! He is not the greatest friend but 15 years of friendship should count for something, right?
So over the last few days I have been watching her behavior. She is taking her cell everywhere she goes. Turning it off at night for bed. She even has a work cell phone that is always locked and I don’t have the code nor would I need to if she were honest. I think she is using the work phone mostly now bc there are not any records of phone calls to him or anyone suspicious. There is no way for me to monitor that phone, so what better way to keep secrets from me? Do I have the right to ask her to unlock it and let me see the texts and phone calls?
But what I was able to find is that she is texting someone and deleting those texts. My phone's online portal service has the amount of texts sent but does not give any details on to whom or the content of the messages. So I kept count for 1 day. When I looked at her phone, only half of the 48 texts from that day were there. The ones to a girlfriend of hers were there. The last ones of those came at 3:00 pm, but she got 28 or so more after that time in which there were no texts on her phone to account for those texts.
Also she is coming home more and more often smelling like cigarette smoke. I also know she is not buying them bc she does not own any packs. I know she is getting them from someone. But who? Is it really my friend? Is it someone I don’t know?

What do I do? I want to be married, but I also want to be happy!


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## MattMatt

You need to establish what is going on. There are people here who are experts and will tell you how to discover what you need to discover.

Even if she is NOT having an affair, her behaviour is not appropriate for a married woman and she needs to stop.

Marriage Counselling might be something you two could consider.


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## Shaggy

Yes she cheating.

Now here is what suggest.

1. You need to get and read Married Man Sex Life by Athol. Read it ASAP and learn how your nice guy routine to make her love you more has actually pushed her away and lost her respect.

2. You should have demanded full transparency to her texts and email back with the Ex and especially when you caught her the next and next times. Throw out the stupid idea of having secrets in marriage. You should be able to read any email or text by your spouse at anytime. Because there should never ever be secrets.

3. Use a VAR , voice activate recorder, available Walmart and best buy. Get a couple of them. Put then were she would be calling him from, put one in the house the next day he is supposed to be over and then have an excuse for you to pop out and leave them alone for an hour. Make sure the reason will ensure they know you will be gone for the hour. Maybe you get called into work?

They should be very easy to catch.


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## MattMatt

Shaggy said:


> Yes she cheating.
> 
> Now here is what suggest.
> 
> 1. You need to get and read Married Man Sex Life by Athol. Read it ASAP and learn how your nice guy routine to make her love you more has actually pushed her away and lost her respect.
> 
> 2. You should have demanded full transparency to her texts and email back with the Ex and especially when you caught her the next and next times. Throw out the stupid idea of having secrets in marriage. You should be able to read any email or text by your spouse at anytime. Because there should never ever be secrets.
> 
> 3. Use a VAR , voice activate recorder, available Walmart and best buy. Get a couple of them. Put then were she would be calling him from, put one in the house the next day he is supposed to be over and then have an excuse for you to pop out and leave them alone for an hour. Make sure the reason will ensure they know you will be gone for the hour. Maybe you get called into work?
> 
> They should be very easy to catch.


:iagree:

See? The Cavalry is here, already. We are all rooting for you!

And even if your wife is not physically cheating on you all that physic energy she should be putting into her marriage she is putting into the other guys. THAT is why she gets distant from you.


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## one_strange_otter

Gather evidence. Can you put a voice activated recorder around the house where she goes to smoke and talk? maybe in the car? You don't want to confront without absolute proof. She certainly sounds suspicious and there's no good reason for a wife to have conversations at those hours with guy friends. Is the smoking that big of a deal really? I mean she was a smoker when you met her right? Either way, without proof there's no way to confront successfully without getting trickle truth and lies. Don't be surprised if she has been cheating and then tries to blame it on you for not "being there" or some other kind of crap.


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## warlock07

Two words: Serial cheater, scumbag friend


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## hookares

The OP will soon have an ulcer. Clearly he doesn't trust his "loving" wife and should just make different arrangements when it comes to companionship.


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## Gabriel

The phone is really a red flag in my opinion, especially given her past behavior.

Your wife has very poor boundaries, at a minimum. And has tendencies of a serial cheater. 

The mistake you made was not demanding transparency after the EA (emotional affair) she had with her ex, and believe me, that's what she had. Transparency means she gives up her passwords, unlocks her phone, etc. That's a consequence of her actions. Other than telling her to stop, she had no consequences for this gross infraction on your marriage. Keep checking the phone records, and ask to see her phone. See what she does. It will speak volumes. 

And never leave her alone with your 15 year friend again. That was not smart. Your gut is telling you something.


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## TexasCat10

one_strange_otter said:


> Gather evidence. Can you put a voice activated recorder around the house where she goes to smoke and talk? maybe in the car? You don't want to confront without absolute proof. She certainly sounds suspicious and there's no good reason for a wife to have conversations at those hours with guy friends. Is the smoking that big of a deal really? I mean she was a smoker when you met her right? Either way, without proof there's no way to confront successfully without getting trickle truth and lies. Don't be surprised if she has been cheating and then tries to blame it on you for not "being there" or some other kind of crap.


Thank you for your insight. I really appreciate it. The smoking would not be that big of a deal if it did not directly correlate to the influence my suspicious friend has on her. She also used to be adamantly against smoking bc of the health issues it causes. It is the source of how her attitude and actions are slowly changing. This change represents the actions of another woman, not the one I married.


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## Plan 9 from OS

Gabriel said:


> The phone is really a red flag in my opinion, especially given her past behavior.
> 
> Your wife has very poor boundaries, at a minimum. And has tendencies of a serial cheater.
> 
> The mistake you made was not demanding transparency after the EA (emotional affair) she had with her ex, and believe me, that's what she had. Transparency means she gives up her passwords, unlocks her phone, etc. That's a consequence of her actions. Other than telling her to stop, she had no consequences for this gross infraction on your marriage. Keep checking the phone records, and ask to see her phone. See what she does. It will speak volumes.
> 
> And never leave her alone with your 15 year friend again. That was not smart. Your gut is telling you something.


I would divorce your wife based on the lack of boundaries alone. She obviously had an emotional affair (EA) with her XBF and you clearly saw evidence of that already with the highly inappropriate texts. Also, he desire for you tanked during this EA and is tanking again. She violated your boundaries with this XBF 2 or 3 times already. She doesn't respect you nor care for you enough to work for this marriage. Unless you live in a state where proof of infidelity will get you something, you have no need to put yourself through all of the time and torture of trying to catch her in another EA or PA. Assuming you live in a no fault state, serve her with the divorce papers and move on. 

While this is going on, I would get myself into individual counseling to work on yourself, tone your body if it needs it and do all of those things that will improve your self esteem.

Finally, please recognize that what I suggested above is what I would do for myself. Everyone is different and you need to decide what's best for you.


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## EleGirl

It sounds like your wife is having at least emotional affairs (EA) if not physical ones. 

Does she use a computer for email, etc? If so put a keylogger on it.


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## Shaggy

Btw, often women take up smoking again if they are pursuing a smoker. It gives them an excuse to be with them, and in their head makes them more attractive to the OM because they are showing a desire to share his vices.

Also put a var hidden outside at your place where they go to smoke.

They sound like they think you not only have no clue, but that sneaking around with you there adds to the excitement.


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## EleGirl

When you use a VAR, use velcro hold it in place. YOu can get strong strips on adhesive backed velcro at the hardware store, walmart etc.


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## 40isthenew20

The first thing I would do is knock the snot out of your "friend." challenge him on why he is having these long cell conversations with your wife. It'll be easier to get the truth out of him (especially if you knock a few of his teeth out first) then yor wife, who will be tap dancing around everything with excuses. 

My friends and I have always lived by the belief that you do not mess with each others family members, current wife/girlfriend or exes. This fat boy of yours apparently could care less about you or your relationship. 

One question - did you ever confide to him that she was texting,etc her ex? If do, then it appears to me that he targeted her knowing that she may be open to an extramarital affair. Even scarier...


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## cabin fever

I agree. 

I would definitly have a little "come to jesus" meeting with the friend. 

At first I would try to get as much info from him as possible, then I'd turn and put the fear of god into him, and tell him you WILL find out everything, so if he confesses now, there is a much better chance he won't need a dentist, and trip to the E.R. If you have to come back, you'll be even more pissed! 

Either way he is not a friend, and has no more business being involved in your life any longer, and that includes your wife.


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## lostagain!

Trust your gut....I spent the first 12 years of my 13 year marriage with that awful gut feeling that my spouse was being unfaithful and I should've listened to it. I found out just shy of our 11 year anniversary that he spent all those years communicating and sleeping with other women and Im not talking 1 or 2 different women.


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## keko

Is she using an iPhone?


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## EleGirl

40isthenew20 said:


> The first thing I would do is knock the snot out of your "friend." challenge him on why he is having these long cell conversations with your wife. It'll be easier to get the truth out of him (especially if you knock a few of his teeth out first) then yor wife, who will be tap dancing around everything with excuses.
> 
> My friends and I have always lived by the belief that you do not mess with each others family members, current wife/girlfriend or exes. This fat boy of yours apparently could care less about you or your relationship.
> 
> One question - did you ever confide to him that she was texting,etc her ex? If do, then it appears to me that he targeted her knowing that she may be open to an extramarital affair. Even scarier...


Knocking his freinds teeth out is a very bad idea.. a conviction for assault would not help him in any way.

The "friend" is not going to tell the truth either.


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## Kallan Pavithran

Its time for VAR, put it some where where she used to talk.


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## PBear

cabin fever said:


> I agree.
> 
> I would definitly have a little "come to jesus" meeting with the friend.
> 
> At first I would try to get as much info from him as possible, then I'd turn and put the fear of god into him, and tell him you WILL find out everything, so if he confesses now, there is a much better chance he won't need a dentist, and trip to the E.R. If you have to come back, you'll be even more pissed!
> 
> Either way he is not a friend, and has no more business being involved in your life any longer, and that includes your wife.


At best, this might scare off the current dude. The problem is the wife, though. The next guy is just a text or call away, and their relationship might not be so obvious.

C


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## cabin fever

I agree, but I would deal with teh friend first, then the wife. With or without the wife, his life will go on, but the friend needs to take a hike. 

The wife is obviously pretty good at this game, and I doubt she will ever stop.


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## TDSC60

Too many red flags. Get couple of VARs and record some of these conversations.


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## ArmyofJuan

Here’s my impression:
You are making life too easy for her, she is a bored housewife looking for some "drama" to spice up her life. You’ve become her servant thus she not only doesn’t respect you because you let her walk all over you and give her all she wants, but she thinks you will never leave her so she takes chances with cheating.

Odds are she is cheating and 9 times out of 10 the end up affairing down (meaning that loser is a prime candidate for an AP). Considering she’s been showing inappropriate behavior since you’ve been married there may have been other men that you’ve missed over the years.

Doesn’t look like your W has ever taken your marriage seriously and odds are she never will. Honestly, if you can confirm at least one PA I would call it quits because you are not likely to get her to stop cheating. She doesn’t appreciate you and may even resent you for being so nice to her. FYI you can’t “nice” her back or out of an affair, being nice enables affairs. You also can’t compete with an AP so even trying just makes you look weak. 

You may have to play hardball. Whether you want to R or not you still should take the same path or else you will just set yourself up for a false R. Basically confirm an A then drop the hammer and get a lawyer. Don’t fall for her “I’m sorry let’s rug sweep this ok?” like you have done in the past or else you’ll be back here again. She needs to be scared out of her mind that you are going to divorce her and you need to re-evaluate your M and really ask yourself if this is the kind of wife you want. The only way a R will work is if she is BEGGING for it and you are in complete control of yourself. That won't happen until you let her know you are gone for good. She has to prove she is worthy of being your wife.


It’s never too late to start over with someone else.


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## lovelygirl

-You are being too nice and too tolerating.
-This leads to her disrespecting you.
-She has poor bounderies and you haven't shown her the proper ones.
-She's definitely cheated on you emotionally. It could be just a matter of time until it becomes physical and the signs are already there.


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## Entropy3000

I confess I did not make it through the entire original post. Mainly becuase I felt I had seen enough.

The fact that you asked her to have no contact with him and later when you were gone you saw they had contact was enough to declare something that was inappropriate was now unfaithful.

So all of the rest of what I did read backed up that she was unfaithful and probably more. But where is your boundary? Her pursuing her ex while you are good would be plenty for me. No kids and already unfaithful? I am moving on. I would need no other investigationg personally.

But determine what you need to know to be able to move on, because yes she cheated on you in the first year of your marriage and was still in contact with her ex before and after your marriage.


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## Machiavelli

I'm going to play this thread straight, but it's probably excessively brutal. Don't get pissed, just read it and listen to yourself.

Tex, it is almost for sure that your wife has committed adultery with both the XBF and your fat friend and probably some others. I would say get a divorce right away, but if you want to try to bring her back into the fold, you need to listen to Shaggy and get Married Man Sex Life, the learn it cover to cover. Your whole approach to women is from a position of weakness. Who makes more you or your wife?

Now read this before we continue: Socio-Sexual Hierarchy

Where do you see yourself on that spectrum? I would place you between the Delta and the Gamma. If your wife sees you that way, and I think she does, she has zero sexual attraction to you.



TexasCat10 said:


> My job was flexible so I could relocate back home, she was finishing her Master's w/ a good job lined up.


Were you were making more $$ than her at the time?



TexasCat10 said:


> I found out their ending was not the best scenario as she pretty much left him for me


Were you making more $$ than the XBF?




TexasCat10 said:


> I don’t want everyone to think that I was being nosy at this point in our relationship (yet).


A man comfortable in his role as leader of the marriage would naturally be nosy. Why the defensive tone?




TexasCat10 said:


> My wife started acting a little distant and strange ...There were hours and hours of conversation.So I simply ask: “Do you ever talk to your Ex?" She looked me straight in the eye and says "NO."


That's because she's addicted to the brain sex chemicals, dopamine, norepinephrine, et al that get released from sex and/or contact with men she is not supposed to be talking to. The taboo attraction is into overdrive. You're getting between your wife and her "crack." Of course, she's going to lie without remorse.




TexasCat10 said:


> I can be a little nagging because of my OCD (like things neat and clean) but I always put her 1st. So to be lied and cheated on when I carefully waited for the right girl and did not get married until I was absolutely ready and had no desire to be w/ any other women, will not be tolerated!


So why tolerate it? And you keep swallowing. Male neatnicks aren't attractive to most women, anyway.




TexasCat10 said:


> She bawls her eyes out and tells me how she is just talking to him; never had they had any physical contact during those months of excessive talking....Our physical relationship had been falling off ...


She was getting plenty of more exciting sex from OM, so of course your relationship with her was going to drop off.



TexasCat10 said:


> My wife began to have that same distant behavior as before. We only had sex one or twice a month...I do what I think are the things a good husband would do. I cook, I do dishes, laundry, clean etc.


Most women are not going to be attracted to a male maid, when they can have sex with a higher value male. She figures you're making a pretty good wife for her, though.



TexasCat10 said:


> So, against my conscious (I know invading privacy is not conducive to a good marriage), I checked her texts.


Good marriages don't have privacy. Even the open ones don't have privacy until right before they implode.



TexasCat10 said:


> Amazingly I found just what I was looking for but certainly did not want to see...Frantically apologized but didn’t really seem sorry.


Why should she be sorry? After all, it was the best sex she'd ever had. This is true no matter who the OM is. The fact she's cuckolding you makes it the sweetest for her.




TexasCat10 said:


> She is beautiful, has a great career, comes from a great family and gets along great w/ mine. Why can’t we just be happy together? ...I would do just about anything she asks me if it made her happy. And I do!


No, you don't. If that were true, you'd quit trying to mess with her relationships with her BFs.



TexasCat10 said:


> Our bedroom activity has become very routine and sparse. Maybe once or twice a month and she just seems to be going through the motions.!


Women lose all respect for their cuckold husbands and a loss of respect means a loss of sexual attraction.



TexasCat10 said:


> We have been going out w/ my male friends a lot lately. A lot of drinking and fun ensues..one recently divorced friend of mine has my suspicions up again. He does not seem like my wife's type at 1st. Kind of chubby and out of shape. I usually would not be worried about this guy taking any girl away from me (we have been friends for 15 yrs. and has not happened). But he has an attitude that comes off as tough even though he couldn’t fight his way out of a wet paper bag! (_sorry, I'm upset_) And I have recently started to think my wife is very attracted to that kind of attitude


I'm sure she is attracted to that attitude, assuming she's a woman, of course. It doesn't matter what he looks like, if he has game. Since he seduced your wife right under your nose, he's got plenty of game. Your WW swallows everything he puts out. You, on the other hand, don't have a clue. This makes OM incredibly attractive, even if he's a little round *troll*.



TexasCat10 said:


> (I am more of a gentle giant).


Really? What's your BF%?



TexasCat10 said:


> I hadn’t really thought much of this until about 3 months ago.
> We went out for a mutual friend's BDay (female) to a local bar. Nothing seemed out of the ordinary until I started to notice the extended period of time they kept leaving to go smoke cigarettes outside (no smoking inside the bar).


As you note in your full post, they are bonding over sex plus their addiction. This makes things even harder. All the pleasure centers are being fired up by OM, you are just a drag and a killjoy.




TexasCat10 said:


> I was even approached by another group of females who were not deterred by my wedding ring during one of their smoke breaks.


The ring is what attracted them to you in the first place. You were "pre-approved" and the ring proclaimed it. Women take their attraction cues from other women.



TexasCat10 said:


> I was scared my wife was going to come back and catch me talking to them....I even told her I was just about to be picked up by these chicks and she didn’t really seem to care.


You really are under your WW's thumb. You missed a golden opportunity to demonstrate your attractiveness to your wife and show yourself to be a high value male and you blew it. Your wife didn't care because she didn't believe you. You repel her with your Omega male behavior towards her, so she cannot believe for one second that another woman would find you attractive.




TexasCat10 said:


> I left my suspicious friend alone w/ my wife.


Why would you do this, unless it was specifically arranged to walk in on them. Do you have cuckold fantasies?




TexasCat10 said:


> Like I said, I would never think my wife would be attracted to this guy so I didn’t think much of it at the time,


Really? After all the smoke breaking and carrying on?



TexasCat10 said:


> but while I was out getting the food, the weekend out where I noticed the long smoke breaks popped in my head... neither one of them were there... I asked her straight up if she had been in there w/ my friend. She said I was crazy! What I am talking about? I am just drunk!
> I let it go.


And your sex rank continued it's descent to -10.



TexasCat10 said:


> I did agree w/ her, though. It was crazy for me to think she would like him...He is not the greatest friend but 15 years of friendship should count for something, right?


It counts for a lot. Especially for your friend, since you're letting him carry on with your wife. You're a great friend.



TexasCat10 said:


> So over the last few days I have been watching her behavior. She is taking her cell everywhere she goes. Turning it off at night for bed. She even has a work cell phone that is always locked and I don’t have the code nor would I need to if she were honest...Do I have the right to ask her to unlock it and let me see the texts and phone calls?


Yes, you have every right to leisurely examine both phones to your heart's content.




TexasCat10 said:


> But what I was able to find is that she is texting someone and deleting those texts.
> 
> Also she is coming home more and more often smelling like cigarette smoke.
> 
> What do I do?


Tell her to bring her boyfriend over tonight so you can listen to the action and you'll fix them breakfast in bed tomorrow.

Now that's all pretty harsh and infuriating, but you're not even in the game, other than playing the waterboy.

Divorce her yesterday and move on.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Having read the entire story and the ensuing comments,my feeling is that your wife is addicted to the " bad boy " type.

Some women get weak in the knees for men like that. You call yourself the 
" gentle giant ". She is not sexually attracted to that.

My feeling is that her ex bf was a " jerk" but she was hopelessly addicted to him. She really was not mature enough for marriage.

Even if you decide to " man up" and stop being so nice to her, the sex will improve for a while but she will still stray. 
You cannot continue living your life like this,looking for evidence and getting that sickening feeling in your gut.

She is not remorseful,and over the years she has continued in her cheating ways.
If it were me in that situation,I would tell her to pack her bags and leave tomorrow. No begging ,no crying, 

Just go.


----------



## Remains

Be very thankful you don't have children yet. 

I am sorry but you don't spend 15-30 min phone calls, regular, with a man that is not your friend and never was. As you say, she has no reason to chat with him, he is 'your friend', not hers. Even if he was originally her friend, men don't talk on the phone like that. I don't talk to any of my male friends for that time, it is business only. 'How's it going? Fancy meeting up? Where? When? Cool, see you then' All done in about 10 mins tops and that is only before a meet up which is rare. She is cheating and has cheated. Sorry. 

You need to think about your next step now and accept she is not what you thought she was. She never will be. You have caught her red handed on more than one occasion and she's carried on. She won't change.


----------



## lordmayhem

She lied to you from the beginning; you were the OM and didn't even know it. 
She's been in contact with her ex since shortly after the beginning of the marriage.
She never really got over her ex
Only married 4 years
No children yet

Run TexasCat10! Run!

OM will always be there if you stay with her.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

She cheated with you and now she's cheating on you.

Get out now before she tethers herself to you for life by having kids (which may or may not be yours.)


----------



## costa200

> I do what I think are the things a good husband would do. I cook, I do dishes, laundry, clean etc. I search message boards on how to make a marriage work to make sure I am doing the right things and not making my wife NOT want to be w/ me physically.


You must have been reading some womanized board. There is a lot more than that to being a "good husband", that i'm going to interpret as a guy a woman wants to be with, instead of a "good husband" who does as he is told while his wife cheats on him. 



> He does not seem like my wife's type at 1st. Kind of chubby and out of shape. I usually would not be worried about this guy taking any girl away from me (we have been friends for 15 yrs. and has not happened). But he has an attitude that comes off as tough even though he couldn’t fight his way out of a wet paper bag! (sorry, I'm upset) And I have recently started to think my wife is very attracted to that kind of attitude (I am more of a gentle giant).


See my avatar? Here, let me magnify for you:










Do you get it?


----------



## MattMatt

40isthenew20 said:


> The first thing I would do is knock the snot out of your "friend." challenge him on why he is having these long cell conversations with your wife. It'll be easier to get the truth out of him (especially if you knock a few of his teeth out first) then yor wife, who will be tap dancing around everything with excuses.
> 
> My friends and I have always lived by the belief that you do not mess with each others family members, current wife/girlfriend or exes. This fat boy of yours apparently could care less about you or your relationship.
> 
> One question - did you ever confide to him that she was texting,etc her ex? If do, then it appears to me that he targeted her knowing that she may be open to an extramarital affair. Even scarier...


*
NO VIOLENCE! This is a crazy idea! *


----------



## Emerald

I am very sorry about all of this nonsense with your wife & that your heart is breaking but the good news is you are still young with no children.

Serial cheating is a marriage buster right up there with abuse.


----------



## the guy

From what you told us about your your wife and her past, something tells me she has entittlement issues. She can do what ever she wants and gets what ever she wants. She has learned to manage you just like she has managed her parent as a youth.

So my point is her cheating is just something she has the right to do, sure its wrong but when you do get better proof (like the VAR or a PI) you will get the blame shifting that comes with this kind of women.

Some times even a smoking gun isn't good enough...deniel is powerful, and thinking the unthinkable is tough. So for your own good you need to get to the bottom of this. 

You diserve good things and it so appearant that your are not happy and this chick is bringing out the worst in you.

I hope you don't have kids, this is not the kind of women that you want to grow old with. She seems broken and sure she can get help but will she...will she ever?

Even to save her marriage? I have my doubts! See I don't think this is the kind of women that will change your bed pan when your old and bed ridden. I think you diserve better.

So, please spend some dough and get the evidence that will give you the confidence to make the next dicision for the next stage of your life. You owe that to your self.....


----------



## Fvstringpicker

> I cook, I do dishes, laundry, clean etc. I search message boards on how to make a marriage work to make sure I am doing the right things and not making my wife NOT want to be w/ me physically.


How's that working for you? All you need to add to, "I cook, I do dishes, laundry, clean etc." is "allowing her to lay up on her lard azz talking to other guys". I've got news for you Tex; women who love, respect, and have a sexual interest in their old man don't lay around talking to other guys while only working a cigarette. "Gentle Giants" in aprons asking, "what else can I do for you my queen" get cheated on and left holding the bag. Some of us need to talk to you.


----------



## iJordan

Fvstringpicker said:


> "Gentle Giants" in aprons asking, "what else can I do for you my queen" get cheated on and left holding the bag. Some of us need to talk to you.


I genuinely burst out laughing at this.


----------



## Chaparral

Kick his A$$ or back him down in a harsh way in front of your wife and see if your wife doesn't come running back.

Go outside with her when she smokes.

You are kind of slow on the uptake. You don't do a good job of watching your business.


----------



## EleGirl

costa200 said:


> You must have been reading some womanized board. There is a lot more than that to being a "good husband", that i'm going to interpret as a guy a woman wants to be with, instead of a "good husband" who does as he is told while his wife cheats on him.
> 
> 
> 
> See my avatar? Here, let me magnify for you:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you get it?


I just want to hug that big dog.


----------



## EleGirl

Fvstringpicker said:


> How's that working for you? All you need to add to, "I cook, I do dishes, laundry, clean etc." is "allowing her to lay up on her lard azz talking to other guys". I've got news for you Tex; women who love, respect, and have a sexual interest in their old man don't lay around talking to other guys while only working a cigarette. "Gentle Giants" in aprons asking, "what else can I do for you my queen" get cheated on and left holding the bag. Some of us need to talk to you.


Do you assume that doing dishes, laundry and cleaning is women's work. Today most women work. Thus there is no woman's work vs men's work.


----------



## Machiavelli

EleGirl said:


> Do you assume that doing dishes, laundry and cleaning is women's work. Today most women work. Thus there is no woman's work vs men's work.


That's your cortex talking. Most female cortex's agree with yours. Unfortunately, female sexual attraction is run from the "hindbrain," and the hindbrain has a very different opinion.


----------



## Caribbean Man

chapparal said:


> *Kick his A$$ or back him down in a harsh way in front of your wife and see if your wife doesn't come running back.
> 
> Go outside with her when she smokes.
> 
> You are kind of slow on the uptake. You don't do a good job of watching your business.*


:iagree:
I couldn't have said it better myself!
This nasty POS coming in YOUR house , encouraging YOUR wife to chain smoke with him,sneaking around and trying to get into her pants IN YOUR HOUSE?


----------



## iJordan

Machiavelli said:


> That's your cortex talking. Most female cortex's agree with yours. Unfortunately, female sexual attraction is run from the "hindbrain," and the hindbrain has a very different opinion.


A large portion of people don't embrace physical and psychological dimorphism under a misguided notion of egalitarianism. Of course, those who do accept it tend to propagate specific gender roles, resulting in the proverbial, _'LOL, you're a househusband'_ situation.


----------



## the guy

What sucks is when he stands up to OM he will look like the bad guy in his WW eyes. {in a winy voice} "we're just friends"

I'm all for a good ass kicking, just have the proof to back it up. Or if you catch them red handed.

There are to many red flags here...she cheating!

Set up some cams and some VARS and then you can handle it and confront both of them...just make sure you are built for some jail time if you kick his butt.


----------



## OldWolf57

Ok, the cold hard truth. You are hubby, security, future. In other words, the PAYCHECK. YES she was doing him in the bathroom while you was gone. In your home. Friends ?? Read bff thread of wifey and BEST friend, he just confirmed. Read is my wife cheating, by another BS, scumbag om sounds like your friend, chubby and got nothing going on. She know there is no future with them, but like the thrill of cheating. So she do it with scum she won't be leaving her security for.

BUT, why do you keep giving this woman the power to play you ?? Are you so desparate you can't find a better woman ?? 
You ae young enough to start over with the real thing, once you dump this serial cheater. And make no mistake, she is just that.
You may even get her to stop, but once the kids come, sooner or later she will cheat again. So you will be back here again.

So here is what you do. 1. Don't confront again. Get the VARS and catch her. 2. Expose her to everyone near and far. 3.Try to act as if you still have no inkling she is cheating, then bring her world crashing down. 
I TRULY hope you are not so caught up in this fantasy life you want with her, that you are took weak to accept this and take her back.
At your age, you got your whole life ahead of you. Don't waste it trying to fix the unfixable,,, HER.


----------



## the guy

@!Jordan, what the hell did you just say?


----------



## iJordan

the guy said:


> @!Jordan, what the hell did you just say?


Basically, that people ignore the fact men and women are different because they want—in some sense of the word—equality. Gender-specific roles may not be as prevalent in modern society, but conceptually they are. It's a shame, but women will often not respect a man in a non-traditional role.


----------



## the guy

Thanks and I aggree

Isn't funny how that works "I want my job/indepenence, but kill that spider" kind if thing.


----------



## EleGirl

Machiavelli said:


> That's your cortex talking. Most female cortex's agree with yours. Unfortunately, female sexual attraction is run from the "hindbrain," and the hindbrain has a very different opinion.


I doubt that the "hindbrain" has some sort of pre-programming that says dishes are women's work. 

As a woman I think I have a pretty good idea of what women expect and find attractive in men.

For example if both spouses work a full time job. She comes home and does all of the house work and he comes home and sits around being 'manly' and not doing his part to pick up the mess he helped to create.... Then over time she will grow to resent him. He is responsible for half the work it takes to maintain their household. He's not a 'real man' if he thinks that he does not have equal responsibilities for household chores.

Another scenario is when a woman is a SAHM and her husband works full time. So for 10 hours a day they are both doing their job.. he's at work and she at home with house keeping and taking care of kids, cooking etc. So they both put in their 10 hour day. Then he comes home, acts 'manly' and eats dinner... and he lets her clean up, take care of kids in the evening... while she puts in a 12-16 hour day... then the same happens each weekend day while he just sits around acting 'manly'. You had better believe that she is going to become very resentful that she is putting in 16 hours days with no help. He's going to want sex from her at the end of her 16 hour day after he's relaxed for the last 6 hours and she's been working. The sex is not going to happen. And he's going to wonder why he's not getting any... like a lot of guys around her say "Gee even if she does not feel like having sex or is tired she should just put out." Ya right.


The issue is if he man is acting like a whim and doing things to kiss a$$ and letting his wife basically push him around. If she's sitting around eating bom boms and watching TV while he comes home from work and does all of the house chores... yep that's a turn off to a woman. A woman will not respect a guy who is like this. This very unattractive to a woman.

To just catagorically tell men that they women do not respect men who 'help' around the house is not doing anyone any good. Like most things it's not black and white. It's very situational.


----------



## EleGirl

the guy said:


> What sucks is when he stands up to OM he will look like the bad guy in his WW eyes. {in a winy voice} "we're just friends"
> 
> I'm all for a good ass kicking, just have the proof to back it up. Or if you catch them red handed.
> 
> There are to many red flags here...she cheating!
> 
> Set up some cams and some VARS and then you can handle it and confront both of them...just make sure you are built for some jail time if you kick his butt.


This is why the OP needs to get solid proof of what is going on. Then she cannot say "we're just firends".


----------



## EleGirl

the guy said:


> Thanks and I aggree
> 
> Isn't funny how that works "I want my job/indepenence, but kill that spider" kind if thing.


Well, she might want him to kill that spider. But he's gona still want her to do certain female things for him. Most people realize that there are very big differences between men and women. Even our brains are different. Our body chemistry works differently. 

This does not mean that women cannot have a job, contribute to society in meaningful ways and have independence. And that does not mean that men and women cannot still have their differences.


----------



## Fvstringpicker

EleGirl said:


> Do you assume that doing dishes, laundry and cleaning is women's work.


No Ele, I don't. I do dishes, laundry, vacuum, mop etc., plus maintain the landscape, work on vehicles, home maintenance, and today run a backhoe in 104 degree heat. But the difference between me and the way Tex sounds is that I don't do it to get laid and my wife certainly doesn't lay around talking to and texting other guys. 
However, if I ever discover that type activity on her part, I'll be doing the above by and for myself.


----------



## costa200

EleGirl said:


> I just want to hug that big dog.


That would be to just make the little dog on top jealous, because he's the one you truly want


----------



## Sbrown

EleGirl said:


> I doubt that the "hindbrain" has some sort of pre-programming that says dishes are women's work.
> 
> As a woman I think I have a pretty good idea of what women expect and find attractive in men.
> 
> For example if both spouses work a full time job. She comes home and does all of the house work and he comes home and sits around being 'manly' and not doing his part to pick up the mess he helped to create.... Then over time she will grow to resent him. He is responsible for half the work it takes to maintain their household. He's not a 'real man' if he thinks that he does not have equal responsibilities for household chores.
> 
> Another scenario is when a woman is a SAHM and her husband works full time. So for 10 hours a day they are both doing their job.. he's at work and she at home with house keeping and taking care of kids, cooking etc. So they both put in their 10 hour day. Then he comes home, acts 'manly' and eats dinner... and he lets her clean up, take care of kids in the evening... while she puts in a 12-16 hour day... then the same happens each weekend day while he just sits around acting 'manly'. You had better believe that she is going to become very resentful that she is putting in 16 hours days with no help. He's going to want sex from her at the end of her 16 hour day after he's relaxed for the last 6 hours and she's been working. The sex is not going to happen. And he's going to wonder why he's not getting any... like a lot of guys around her say "Gee even if she does not feel like having sex or is tired she should just put out." Ya right.
> 
> 
> The issue is if he man is acting like a whim and doing things to kiss a$$ and letting his wife basically push him around. If she's sitting around eating bom boms and watching TV while he comes home from work and does all of the house chores... yep that's a turn off to a woman. A woman will not respect a guy who is like this. This very unattractive to a woman.
> 
> To just catagorically tell men that they women do not respect men who 'help' around the house is not doing anyone any good. Like most things it's not black and white. It's very situational.


Lol all women say "I want a nice guy" but as we've seen countless times on this forum that isn't true. My wife is a sahm and when I get home I take care of the "manly" duties around the house. Fixing stuff, working in the yard etc... She cooks and cleans. Do I do the dishes from time to time? Sure I do just as she mows from time to time. My wife keeps the house fairly clean (as clean as u can with a toddler running around) so most of here daytime is free to do as she pleases. To think a woman cooks and cleans for 16 hours a day is silly. I get up at 4am, my wife can sleep as late as our son lets her sometimes as late as 930. So yes when I get home I get to sit around being "manly."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

EleGirl said:


> Do you assume that doing dishes, laundry and cleaning is women's work. Today most women work. Thus there is no woman's work vs men's work.


No i don't, but the question is how does OP's wife and how does she see him choosing to do them?

It is about presenting a strong male role model to maintain ones spot as the male in the relationship. So if your female SO sees doing such things as being passive, weak, accomodating, etc - they kill her desire.

If she sees such things as you choosing to contribute to the home, but not because you are weak - the guy's good.

If a man is an great cook and chooses to cook - he's likely ok.

If a man's wife is nasty, and dominating, and he feels he needs to cook to keep her - well dude doomed.


----------



## Fvstringpicker

I agree SB. I can clean the house, vacuum, and wash dishes (well the dish washer does it) in a couple of hours. And I don't want to hear how hard it is. Boring maybe, but not hard.


----------



## Machiavelli

iJordan said:


> A large portion of people don't embrace physical and psychological dimorphism under a misguided notion of egalitarianism. Of course, those who do accept it tend to propagate specific gender roles, resulting in the proverbial, _'LOL, you're a househusband'_ situation.


I just care about what gets me action in the sack. When I was fat, I wasn't doing enough around the house and I was getting little sex. Now that I've got more muscle and less fat, I do even less, but my wife is all over me. It ain't brain surgery.


----------



## Complexity

Machiavelli said:


> I just care about what gets me action in the sack. When I was fat, I wasn't doing enough around the house and I was getting little sex. Now that I've got more muscle and less fat, I do even less, but my wife is all over me. It ain't brain surgery.


lol women are fascinating creatures


----------



## Shaggy

time for Tex for drop by with an update me thinks.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

the guy said:


> See I don't think this is the kind of women that will change your bed pan when your old and bed ridden.


Pay close attention to what the Guy is saying. When I had my vasectomy, my wife plopped me down in my easy chair, turned the TV on and gave me a bag of frozen vegetables to comfort myself. That was the extent of the care that she gave me that weekend. Looking back, this should've been a major red flag on what she thought of me.

Your wife, like mine, is not the type to take care of her spouse when he's in need. 

RUN AWAY AS QUICK AS YOU CAN!


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

Fvstringpicker said:


> How's that working for you? All you need to add to, "I cook, I do dishes, laundry, clean etc." is "allowing her to lay up on her lard azz talking to other guys". I've got news for you Tex; women who love, respect, and have a sexual interest in their old man don't lay around talking to other guys while only working a cigarette. "Gentle Giants" in aprons asking, "what else can I do for you my queen" get cheated on and left holding the bag. Some of us need to talk to you.


I'm surprised she hasn't hired him out to her girlfriends.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

EleGirl said:


> I just want to hug that big dog.


He looks like such a gentle giant.


----------



## warlock07

In the meantime, let us wait for the OP


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

EleGirl said:


> Do you assume that doing dishes, laundry and cleaning is women's work. Today most women work. Thus there is no woman's work vs men's work.


I did all that and my ex cheated. I calculated that I did almost 4000 hours of housework during the 20-plus years that we were together. I naively thought that this would make her happy. Wrong!! She saw me as her maid and lost all attraction for me.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

iJordan said:


> Basically, that people ignore the fact men and women are different because they want—in some sense of the word—equality. Gender-specific roles may not be as prevalent in modern society, but conceptually they are. It's a shame, but women will often not respect a man in a non-traditional role.



Why didn't you say that in the first place?


----------



## warlock07

EleGirl said:


> I doubt that the "hindbrain" has some sort of pre-programming that says dishes are women's work.
> 
> As a woman I think I have a pretty good idea of what women expect and find attractive in men.
> 
> For example if both spouses work a full time job. She comes home and does all of the house work and he comes home and sits around being 'manly' and not doing his part to pick up the mess he helped to create.... Then over time she will grow to resent him. He is responsible for half the work it takes to maintain their household. He's not a 'real man' if he thinks that he does not have equal responsibilities for household chores.
> 
> Another scenario is when a woman is a SAHM and her husband works full time. So for 10 hours a day they are both doing their job.. he's at work and she at home with house keeping and taking care of kids, cooking etc. So they both put in their 10 hour day. Then he comes home, acts 'manly' and eats dinner... and he lets her clean up, take care of kids in the evening... while she puts in a 12-16 hour day... then the same happens each weekend day while he just sits around acting 'manly'. You had better believe that she is going to become very resentful that she is putting in 16 hours days with no help. He's going to want sex from her at the end of her 16 hour day after he's relaxed for the last 6 hours and she's been working. The sex is not going to happen. And he's going to wonder why he's not getting any... like a lot of guys around her say "Gee even if she does not feel like having sex or is tired she should just put out." Ya right.
> 
> 
> The issue is if he man is acting like a whim and doing things to kiss a$$ and letting his wife basically push him around. If she's sitting around eating bom boms and watching TV while he comes home from work and does all of the house chores... yep that's a turn off to a woman. A woman will not respect a guy who is like this. This very unattractive to a woman.
> 
> To just catagorically tell men that they women do not respect men who 'help' around the house is not doing anyone any good. Like most things it's not black and white. It's very situational.


Makes generalization in a post asking not to make generalizations 


It is just people are people. They can be selfish regardless of the gender


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

I must apologize for hogging the last few posts. I just got back from a kickass Kelly Clarkson/The Fray concert and I'm playing catchup in the wee early morning.

(I think I'll go hog another thread.)


----------



## iJordan

warlock07 said:


> Makes generalization in a post asking not to make generalizations


Woman logic...

...kidding


----------



## keko

Women and logic don't belong in the same sentence.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

warlock07 said:


> Makes generalization in a post asking not to make generalizations
> 
> 
> It is just people are people. They can be selfish regardless of the gender


Nope I was not asking to anyone to not make generalizations. I was giving some broad based scenarios that are based on things I've seen that have made women I know not want anything to do with their husbands... because the women felt taken advantage of.


----------



## EleGirl

Ok you guys... better watch out.... :nono:


----------



## EleGirl

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> I did all that and my ex cheated. I calculated that I did almost 4000 hours of housework during the 20-plus years that we were together. I naively thought that this would make her happy. Wrong!! She saw me as her maid and lost all attraction for me.


364*20=7280 days

4000 hours / 7280 days = .60 hours a day

So you helped out a little over helped out 36 minutes a day on average.

Was she a SAH wife? Or did she work outside the home?


----------



## Chaparral

OP disappeared after the first page


----------



## Machiavelli

warlock07 said:


> Makes generalization in a post asking not to make generalizations
> 
> 
> It is just people are people. They can be selfish regardless of the gender


The problem with making generalizations is that there are exceptions to every rule. I mean every rule. The other problem is that everyone thinks they are the exception. "my wife is different," etc.

The prime directive, the blue print as it were, is "Be fruitful and multiply" translated: git it on! If that's not happening for you, you're doing something wrong. Especially in a marriage. Being the maid won't get you laid.


----------



## Chaparral

Machiavelli said:


> The problem with making generalizations is that there are exceptions to every rule. I mean every rule. The other problem is that everyone thinks they are the exception. "my wife is different," etc.
> 
> The prime directive, the blue print as it were, is "Be fruitful and multiply" translated: git it on! If that's not happening for you, you're doing something wrong. Especially in a marriage. Being the maid won't get you laid.


:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Can I quote you on that?


----------



## MattMatt

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> I did all that and my ex cheated. I calculated that I did almost 4000 hours of housework during the 20-plus years that we were together. I naively thought that this would make her happy. Wrong!! She saw me as her maid and lost all attraction for me.


_*Or was that just the excuse she used for having no boundaries and being a cake eating idiot?*_


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

EleGirl said:


> 364*20=7280 days
> 
> 4000 hours / 7280 days = .60 hours a day
> 
> So you helped out a little over helped out 36 minutes a day on average.
> 
> Was she a SAH wife? Or did she work outside the home?


More like (4 hours a week) * (52 weeks a year) * (20 years) = 4160 hours

I worked around 50 hours a week, did all the yardwork and car maintenance, did the grocery shopping, cooked dinner on Sundays and she was a stay at home mom for eleven years. Those four hours a week were spent cleaning the house on Sundays when I could've been out with friends watching football games or just being lazy. 

(And BTW, most people don't clean in 36 minute segments during the week.)


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

chapparal said:


> OP disappeared after the first page


He'll be back after he does things HIS way and it blows up in his face. Sad.


----------



## Machiavelli

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> He'll be back after he does things HIS way and it blows up in his face. Sad.


His timeline indicates he's only about 35 years old, so that means he's been fully programmed by The Matriarchy since birth. It'll take at least another 10 years of cognitive dissonance before he sees the light. On the other hand, maybe he's reconciled himself to a Woman Led Marriage.


----------



## Machiavelli

chapparal said:


> :rofl::rofl::rofl:
> 
> Can I quote you on that?


Of course.


----------



## TexasCat10

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> He'll be back after he does things HIS way and it blows up in his face. Sad.


I am still here, just not able to respond thoroughly over the weekend. I will back w. an update tomorrow. And I am not doing anything my way. That obviously hasnt worked so far. I am reading these threads w/ great appreciation for all the insight everyone has given me and planning my next moves carefully. I want to catch her and make her face the music. So far I have bought a VAR and will set it up in her car tomorrow mornning before she goes to work.


----------



## TexasCat10

Machiavelli said:


> His timeline indicates he's only about 35 years old, so that means he's been fully programmed by The Matriarchy since birth. It'll take at least another 10 years of cognitive dissonance before he sees the light. On the other hand, maybe he's reconciled himself to a Woman Led Marriage.


You are correct about my age, but can you elaborate what you mean by "programmed by the Matriarchy"? 

and what is your age, old wise one?


----------



## spudster

TexasCat10 said:


> I am still here, just not able to respond thoroughly over the weekend. I will back w. an update tomorrow. And I am not doing anything my way. That obviously hasnt worked so far. I am reading these threads w/ great appreciation for all the insight everyone has given me and planning my next moves carefully. I want to catch her and make her face the music. So far I have bought a VAR and will set it up in her car tomorrow mornning before she goes to work.


Texas your wife is scarily similar to my ex in her behavior. 

I caught mine in the act of banging her lover at a roadside motel. Believe me, you don't ever try to walk in on your wife and another man doing the deed. My friend, it will devastate you. Took me two years to get my head back on straight after hearing the sounds of my wife betraying me. 

Find all the evidence you can and confront her. She has cheated on you, if not physically at least emotionally. Your wife is a broken, extremely needy woman who needs constant, continual validation from several men to feel good about herself. 

You are not enough for her. No one man is. 

If you and her do not already have children, my suggestion is to get out of this marriage before you or some other guy gets her pregnant.


----------



## Caribbean Man

TexasCat10 said:


> You are correct about my age, but can you elaborate what you mean by *"programmed by the Matriarchy"? *
> 
> and what is your age, old wise one?


Term:
"programmed by the Matriarchy"

Translation:
" Momma's Boy..."


----------



## Caribbean Man

spudster said:


> Texas your wife is scarily similar to my ex in her behavior.
> 
> I caught mine in the act of banging her lover at a roadside motel. Believe me, you don't ever try to walk in on your wife and another man doing the deed. My friend, it will devastate you. Took me two years to get my head back on straight after hearing the sounds of my wife betraying me.
> 
> Find all the evidence you can and confront her. She has cheated on you, if not physically at least emotionally. Your wife is a broken, extremely needy woman who needs constant, continual validation from several men to feel good about herself.
> 
> *You are not enough for her. No one man is*.
> 
> If you and her do not already have children, my suggestion is to get out of this marriage before you or some other guy gets her pregnant.



Your story reminds me of an experience I had with an ex before I was married. 
Before I started off with my wife ,I met this beautiful girl. She told me her bf used to beat her and he was an a$$hole and so on.
So we got together for sex,but she was really good in bed........
I fell hard for her.
All my friends were telling me that she was still with her " ex bf " but I didn't believe. Whenever I confronted her,she would say that it was not true,they would still chat because they grew up together and lived on the same street etc.

One day my best friend pulled up at my home and told me to jump into his car. He didn't tell me where we were going.
We ended up by her ex bf house, [ he and her ex were acquainted ] and sounded the car horn.
Her ex bf looked out the window of the house [ topless without a shirt ] and they began to talk....then my friend asked him for my gf by name...
[ ex bf didn't know me] .
She looked out the window next to him, topless,with only a bath towell wrapped around her, as if she had just come out of the shower, hugging him and smiling.......
She never saw me.
That evening I went home at her and had dinner. She started initiating sex ,and I refused even to kiss her.
I told her what I saw and told her goodbye.
She began to cry and beg.
But I simply walked out.
She married her ex bf.......
And presently she is still CHEATING on him.

Edit....................................................................................
*Everytime I see her,I SHUDDER to think that I was actually thinking of marrying that woman.*


----------



## Machiavelli

TexasCat10 said:


> You are correct about my age, but can you elaborate what you mean by "programmed by the Matriarchy"?
> 
> and what is your age, old wise one?


CB is sort of correct, but The Matriarchy is the current guiding family principal of the English speaking world. (Insert NAWALT disclaimer here). The Matriarchy says: men need to please women, if women aren't haaaapy, it's men's fault due to The Patriarchy (snort), women are more moral than men, if women sin, men enticed them or drove them to it, men are pigs, etc. In short, men are responsible for making women haaaapy.

Did you read any of those links I provided earlier?

BTW, I'm 55. I was also tainted by Matriarchal propaganda, but not to the extent as the present generation. For example, my own son comes home every day to cold pots and pans and makes the family dinner. Pathetic. He doesn't see the danger, but I'm still waving the red lantern alongside the tracks.


----------



## somethingelse

Okay, so I read the whole thread...... just so you know, something is most definitely going on between your friend and your wife. I'll tell one of my stories...
I had a co-worker/friend that I had known for maybe a year, and we walked home together after work, hung out a lot, talked a lot at work. I always had a weird feeling about her (I didn't know why really) but kept on being friends with her, helped her with a lot of things, etc. I still cared for her as a friend. A lot of weird things happened when she was around my H, but because I trusted him so much at the time I didn't see it fully for what it was. Things like, if we went rollerblading, she would be right up behind him and I would be left trailing behind...Anyway, after that incident, about a week later she called me crying, saying her and her boyfriend broke up and she sounded distressed like she had nowhere to turn. So dumb old me trying to help her says, "you can stay with us until you find a place to live" so she comes on over. Spends time with us all day long, and that same night my H started acting like he hated me and I had done something wrong (he had kind of been doing this the whole week, but it turned into a very obvious thing by that night) My friend was there the whole time, so I felt I couldn't do anything to help his and my situation (and I was very trusting)...anyway, to make a long story short, I went to bed at 12:00 angry and tired (had to go to work in the morning), leaving those two alone (stupid idea). 

At around 3:00 in the morning, I woke up, H not lying beside me, they are no where to be found, I run outside in the rain to go find them in my car....they pull up that same second in her car, I run to the car cursing and swearing. They swear nothing "like that" happened (and at the time I thought the same as you....this girl is so ugly he would never touch her) I seriously believed that she was not his type nor would he ever think to touch someone like that! But I was sooo wrong. Anyway, dumb old me wanted to believe nothing happened, so I did. I chose to ignore the facts, and believe both of them. They claimed they just went for a drive to talk because he was angry with me, and needed to talk to someone unbiased....so.. in denial I went. I allowed her to stay, and the next day I went to work (H dropped me off, and he also "went to work") At 11:00 I found out that my H had "gone home" because he was feeling "sick" my friend didn't show up to work that day. Long story short, at the end of that day, my H sat me down and confessed what they had done. I was P*[email protected]! To this day that so called "friend" would never admit to it, but completely denies it and went back to her ex-boyfriend right away after that.. but deep down I knew that my denial got the best of me. 

Point is....something's up with your wife for sure! People act nuts when they're doing pathetic things. And you said she's been talking on the phone with your friend? That's it.. Either something has already been done or it's going to happen. Get on top of it, right now before it's too late.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

So, what happened with you and your husband?


----------



## somethingelse

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> So, what happened with you and your husband?


Oh....a lot of things, lots good...but tons of bad things. The bad things overriding the good.

More cheating, more lying. That first bash was just the tip of the iceberg for us. I just didn't know it at the time. I forgave him that time because I hadn't truly known or believed the type of man he is. He had me believing it was my fault for letting her in the house. I now know that was BS obviously. But at the time I was in my own type of love fog. 

But we are still together today, but lots of trust issues and baggage to carry now.


----------



## lordmayhem

TexasCat10 said:


> I am still here, just not able to respond thoroughly over the weekend. I will back w. an update tomorrow. And I am not doing anything my way. That obviously hasnt worked so far. I am reading these threads w/ great appreciation for all the insight everyone has given me and planning my next moves carefully. I want to catch her and make her face the music. So far I have bought a VAR and will set it up in her car tomorrow mornning before she goes to work.


Where's the update? What did the VAR reveal?


----------



## anonim

warlock07 said:


> Two words: Serial cheater, scumbag friend


That's four words...


----------



## Ansley

She cheated on him with you...left him for you. She is now having second thoughts. Sorry my friend. Im glad you got the VAR but my guess is you wont enjoy what you hear. Please keep us updated.


----------



## TexasCat10

keko said:


> Is she using an iPhone?


No an HTC Droid. But her personal phone does not seem to be as telling. I can tell she is deleting texts bc the # of texts listed on the bill does not add up to her texts on the phone. There are many more texts counted than she has on her phone. The details are not on the bill, only the amount of texts sent/rec'd.
But she has a new job and a new work cell. It is locked. I tried one of her usual PW's w no luck. So I am going to gather as much evidence I can w the VARs and then ask to see her work phone if I find anything on the VARs.


----------



## TexasCat10

EleGirl said:


> Knocking his freinds teeth out is a very bad idea.. a conviction for assault would not help him in any way.
> 
> The "friend" is not going to tell the truth either.


I have to agree w Ele here. I am much bigger than him, he would not even fight back, and I would not hold it past him to press charges. If they are having an affair he will lose all of our friends and be scared to death of what I might do. That may be enough. But I may have to just punch him as hard as I can, just not in the face! Haha!


----------



## Caribbean Man

TexasCat10 said:


> No an HTC Droid. But her personal phone does not seem to be as telling.* I can tell she is deleting texts bc the # of texts listed on the bill does not add up to her texts on the phone. There are many more texts counted than she has on her phone. The details are not on the bill, only the amount of texts sent/rec'd.*
> But she has a new job and a new work cell. It is locked. I tried one of her usual PW's w no luck. So I am going to gather as much evidence I can w the VARs and then ask to see her work phone if I find anything on the VARs.



^^^^^^^^^^^^
THIS,RIGHT THERE,
Is a huge red flag.

Why is she deleting her texts?
BTW, whereas I fully understand your logic about your chain smoking " friend " not being brave enough to screw her because he will loose all of his friends,I don't think that you should count on it.
The things that some men risk just for a taste of pu$$y usually defies all logic.


----------



## turnera

Why don't you just hire a PI and get better evidence?


----------



## Shooboomafoo

As a fellow Texan, I would also suggest that you take a look at the Family Code for Texas. Only then will you see whats in store if things turn south for you. Your obligations by law, her obligations by law, and what happens to everything.
I only say this because I was quite suprised at how they stick it to us dads here, even in light of an unfaithful hoe of an exwife.
Infidelty means nothing in Tx court of law. They chalk it all up to "differences" and follow the standard order simply to clear the books for the day.
It might at least give you an idea of what to be looking for, and the reasons why you should be looking.


----------



## TexasCat10

Machiavelli said:


> I'm going to play this thread straight, but it's probably excessively brutal. Don't get pissed, just read it and listen to yourself.
> 
> "_Tex, it is almost for sure that your wife has committed adultery with both the XBF and your fat friend and probably some others. I would say get a divorce right away, but if you want to try to bring her back into the fold, you need to listen to Shaggy and get Married Man Sex Life, the learn it cover to cover. Your whole approach to women is from a position of weakness. Who makes more you or your wife?"_
> 
> I have looked up that book and will take Shaggy's advice.
> I do see that alot of what I do makes me look weak, when all I thought I was doing was being a good husband. I feel like my parents did a great job raising me w/ an understanding that a marriage is a team effort. They were honest w/ me that its not easy and has to be worked on to be successful. I realize they probably hid some issues, no one is prefect. But they are still happily married after 40 yrs. I took their queues and followed what I thought would make a good marriage like they have had.
> 
> I make ~$80,000 and she makes ~$100,000.
> 
> Now read this before we continue: Socio-Sexual Hierarchy
> 
> _"Where do you see yourself on that spectrum? I would place you between the Delta and the Gamma. If your wife sees you that way, and I think she does, she has zero sexual attraction to you."_
> 
> I did read it. My problem seems to be that I was in a lower level, but moved up w/ the luck of genetics and nature.
> Most of my life (under 20 yrs old) I was definitely in the Delta realm and maybe even Gamma. I was a late bloomer but still played sports and hung around w/ the popular group in school. I was always friend zone level 9000 w/ the prettiest girls, though. I always became friends w/ them bc if I could not date them, I could at least hang around them. (very pathetic, I know).
> But around age 20/21 my body's testosterone must have kicked in or something. I was always a big guy (5'9"/230) but more bulky than cut. I have always ran and lifted weights to keep in shape but didnt learn how important my diet was until my mid 20's. Around my 21st BDay, girls started hitting on me. Not just the 3rd tier girls I was used to, but 8's, 9's, and 10's. This was a very new experience for me. Bc on the outside my body was changing but on the inside I still felt like that chubby kid that was not in the same league as the girls I wanted to date.
> I ended up growing 4 inches over 2 yrs and dropped about 20lbs of excess weight.
> Although this change was definitely a blessing, I vowed to not be a ********* bc of it. I had a lot of friends who dogged girls and I just didnt have the heart to be like that.
> So to answer you the question, I think other people see me as an Alpha but I am more confortable being the Beta and probably have the heart of a Delta. I am realizing now, this Nice guy approach is wrong. I thought I could beat the old saying "Nice guys always finish last", boy was I wrong!
> 
> _"Were you were making more $$ than her at the time?"_
> 
> Yes but she was in school not working.
> 
> _"Were you making more $$ than the XBF?"_
> 
> Not sure of his financial situation.
> 
> 
> _"A man comfortable in his role as leader of the marriage would naturally be nosy. Why the defensive tone?"_
> 
> I wasn't trying to sound defensive. I believe there should be no secrets in a marriage, so if I am secretly checking my wife's phone I am breaking my own rules.
> 
> 
> _"That's because she's addicted to the brain sex chemicals, dopamine, norepinephrine, et al that get released from sex and/or contact with men she is not supposed to be talking to. The taboo attraction is into overdrive. You're getting between your wife and her "crack." Of course, she's going to lie without remorse."_
> 
> 
> 
> _"So why tolerate it? And you keep swallowing. Male neatnicks aren't attractive to most women, anyway."_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _"She was getting plenty of more exciting sex from OM, so of course your relationship with her was going to drop off."_
> 
> 
> _"Most women are not going to be attracted to a male maid, when they can have sex with a higher value male. She figures you're making a pretty good wife for her, though."_
> 
> I did not present my issue w/ the house work very well. As a bachelor who lived alone for 10 yrs. I developed a certain level of neatness and organization. No dishes in the sink, switch out the laundry in a timely manner (dont let wet clothes sit and get moldy), dont throw dirty clothes on the floor, etc. We argue bc she does not keep up w/ even half of my expectations in the cleaning dept. I dont want to depict her as dirty bc she is not. Just not as OCD on the aspects of cleaning as I am. I do realize this and to avoid fighting I do all my own laundry now. If she ruins her clothes, thats fine. We do fight over dishes in the sink, but these are just being lazy. (the worst is the PB knife. She will make a snack w/ Peanut Butter and leave the used knife in the sink to dry and get stuck on the knife). I dont mind doing the dishes, just not every day. Just want a little help. I do things I do not like to do to make her happy, she rarely reciprocates!
> 
> _"Good marriages don't have privacy. Even the open ones don't have privacy until right before they implode."_
> 
> 
> 
> _"Why should she be sorry? After all, it was the best sex she'd ever had. This is true no matter who the OM is. The fact she's cuckolding you makes it the sweetest for her."_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _"No, you don't. If that were true, you'd quit trying to mess with her relationships with her BFs."_
> 
> 
> _"Women lose all respect for their cuckold husbands and a loss of respect means a loss of sexual attraction."_
> 
> 
> 
> _"I'm sure she is attracted to that attitude, assuming she's a woman, of course. It doesn't matter what he looks like, if he has game. Since he seduced your wife right under your nose, he's got plenty of game. Your WW swallows everything he puts out. You, on the other hand, don't have a clue. This makes OM incredibly attractive, even if he's a little round"_ *troll*.
> 
> I will agree w/ you she is attracted to the attitude, but I promise you my friend has no game. I would not put it past my wife to have suggested it to him and she is so hot he could not refuse no matter what the consequences. But we are giving my friend way to much credit.
> 
> 
> _"Really? What's your BF%?"_
> 
> 
> 
> _"As you note in your full post, they are bonding over sex plus their addiction. This makes things even harder. All the pleasure centers are being fired up by OM, you are just a drag and a killjoy."_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "_The ring is what attracted them to you in the first place. You were "pre-approved" and the ring proclaimed it. Women take their attraction cues from other women."_
> 
> 
> _"You really are under your WW's thumb. You missed a golden opportunity to demonstrate your attractiveness to your wife and show yourself to be a high value male and you blew it. Your wife didn't care because she didn't believe you. You repel her with your Omega male behavior towards her, so she cannot believe for one second that another woman would find you attractive."_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _"Why would you do this, unless it was specifically arranged to walk in on them. Do you have cuckold fantasies?"_
> 
> 
> I definitely have no cuckold fantasies as you have mentioned a couple of times. It was more of blind confidence that nothing could never happen. I was pretty confident in my marriage despite the past. I wanted to believe my wife and move past her mistakes 2 years ago.
> I also was blindly confident that my friend's fear of what I would do to him (ass beating) plus the fact his recent ex-wife cheated on him to end their marriage so I thought he would undertsand 1st hand what that does to someone. I still have no proof although there are many signs. So until I can get the proof I need that he is definitely the OM, I cant be sure.
> 
> 
> _"Really? After all the smoke breaking and carrying on?"_
> 
> 
> 
> _"And your sex rank continued it's descent to -10."_
> 
> 
> 
> _"It counts for a lot. Especially for your friend, since you're letting him carry on with your wife. You're a great friend."_
> 
> 
> 
> _"Yes, you have every right to leisurely examine both phones to your heart's content."_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _"Tell her to bring her boyfriend over tonight so you can listen to the action and you'll fix them breakfast in bed tomorrow.
> 
> Now that's all pretty harsh and infuriating, but you're not even in the game, other than playing the waterboy.
> 
> Divorce her yesterday and move on._


_"_


----------



## TexasCat10

Machiavelli said:


> I'm going to play this thread straight, but it's probably excessively brutal. Don't get pissed, just read it and listen to yourself.
> 
> Tex, it is almost for sure that your wife has committed adultery with both the XBF and your fat friend and probably some others. I would say get a divorce right away, but if you want to try to bring her back into the fold, you need to listen to Shaggy and get Married Man Sex Life, the learn it cover to cover. Your whole approach to women is from a position of weakness. Who makes more you or your wife?
> 
> Now read this before we continue: Socio-Sexual Hierarchy
> 
> Where do you see yourself on that spectrum? I would place you between the Delta and the Gamma. If your wife sees you that way, and I think she does, she has zero sexual attraction to you.
> 
> 
> 
> Were you were making more $$ than her at the time?
> 
> 
> 
> Were you making more $$ than the XBF?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A man comfortable in his role as leader of the marriage would naturally be nosy. Why the defensive tone?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's because she's addicted to the brain sex chemicals, dopamine, norepinephrine, et al that get released from sex and/or contact with men she is not supposed to be talking to. The taboo attraction is into overdrive. You're getting between your wife and her "crack." Of course, she's going to lie without remorse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So why tolerate it? And you keep swallowing. Male neatnicks aren't attractive to most women, anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She was getting plenty of more exciting sex from OM, so of course your relationship with her was going to drop off.
> 
> 
> 
> Most women are not going to be attracted to a male maid, when they can have sex with a higher value male. She figures you're making a pretty good wife for her, though.
> 
> 
> 
> Good marriages don't have privacy. Even the open ones don't have privacy until right before they implode.
> 
> 
> 
> Why should she be sorry? After all, it was the best sex she'd ever had. This is true no matter who the OM is. The fact she's cuckolding you makes it the sweetest for her.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, you don't. If that were true, you'd quit trying to mess with her relationships with her BFs.
> 
> 
> 
> Women lose all respect for their cuckold husbands and a loss of respect means a loss of sexual attraction.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure she is attracted to that attitude, assuming she's a woman, of course. It doesn't matter what he looks like, if he has game. Since he seduced your wife right under your nose, he's got plenty of game. Your WW swallows everything he puts out. You, on the other hand, don't have a clue. This makes OM incredibly attractive, even if he's a little round *troll*.
> 
> 
> 
> Really? What's your BF%?
> 
> 
> 
> As you note in your full post, they are bonding over sex plus their addiction. This makes things even harder. All the pleasure centers are being fired up by OM, you are just a drag and a killjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The ring is what attracted them to you in the first place. You were "pre-approved" and the ring proclaimed it. Women take their attraction cues from other women.
> 
> 
> 
> You really are under your WW's thumb. You missed a golden opportunity to demonstrate your attractiveness to your wife and show yourself to be a high value male and you blew it. Your wife didn't care because she didn't believe you. You repel her with your Omega male behavior towards her, so she cannot believe for one second that another woman would find you attractive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would you do this, unless it was specifically arranged to walk in on them. Do you have cuckold fantasies?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really? After all the smoke breaking and carrying on?
> 
> 
> 
> And your sex rank continued it's descent to -10.
> 
> 
> 
> It counts for a lot. Especially for your friend, since you're letting him carry on with your wife. You're a great friend.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, you have every right to leisurely examine both phones to your heart's content.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tell her to bring her boyfriend over tonight so you can listen to the action and you'll fix them breakfast in bed tomorrow.
> 
> Now that's all pretty harsh and infuriating, but you're not even in the game, other than playing the waterboy.
> 
> Divorce her yesterday and move on.





TexasCat10 said:


> "[/I]


@Machiavelli, This was my attempt to respond to each of your comments from your 1st thread to me. Sorry, I am very new to this and do not know how to navigate the messaging very well.


----------



## TexasCat10

turnera said:


> Why don't you just hire a PI and get better evidence?


I am going w/ the VAR 1st then if I cannot find anything, a PI is my next step. The cost of a PI would presently be an issue, but if it is my last resort, no costs will be spared!


----------



## Shaggy

From everything you've written it should be easy to actually catch them.

As I said in the earlier post - they appear to get be happy to jump at any opportunity they have, so you can easily set them up.

You need a couple of VARs. Put one in her car with velcro holding it in.

Put another where they smoke outside your house, again secure it with velcro.

Lastly put one under your dining table with velcro. Then get a call from work, or some other reason to leave for a minimum of 1 hour. 

then come back, make a lot of noise as your come home, but come back after only 40 min instead of 60. 

Then later collect the VARs and listen to them. What I believe you'll find is them at the table talking about what they can do with the hour. Later you'll hear them talkiing outside about almost getting caught etc.

The VAR in the car is to catch her after you confront her. It will catch her calling him from her car right after you confront her and she's left to "give you space"


----------



## TexasCat10

Shaggy said:


> From everything you've written it should be easy to actually catch them.
> 
> As I said in the earlier post - they appear to get be happy to jump at any opportunity they have, so you can easily set them up.
> 
> You need a couple of VARs. Put one in her car with velcro holding it in.
> 
> Put another where they smoke outside your house, again secure it with velcro.
> 
> Lastly put one under your dining table with velcro. Then get a call from work, or some other reason to leave for a minimum of 1 hour.
> 
> then come back, make a lot of noise as your come home, but come back after only 40 min instead of 60.
> 
> Then later collect the VARs and listen to them. What I believe you'll find is them at the table talking about what they can do with the hour. Later you'll hear them talkiing outside about almost getting caught etc.
> 
> The VAR in the car is to catch her after you confront her. It will catch her calling him from her car right after you confront her and she's left to "give you space"


There are few issues w/ your suggestions due to logistics. 
I work from home full time so I am always here. To make an excuse to leave for an hour would be difficult. I will try something though. Also, bc I work from home, we only have 1 vehicle. I have planted the VAR in the car though. I did not get velcro bc of time constraints over the weekend, but it should be secured and hidden well.
The other thing is that my friend does not come to our house all that often. It had been once or twice a week, but he has other obligations now that will cut down on that time considerably. And when they go to smoke while at our house, we are all usually outside so they do not usually smoke alone at the house. Only when we go out to bars as a group.


----------



## warlock07

anonim said:


> That's four words...


Two words: Serial-cheater, scumbag-friend

Now what?


----------



## turnera

Ask a friend of yours to call you and ask you to come over to his house to help him with something. There's your excuse for leaving.


----------



## Shooboomafoo

It never took more than what I saw and heard with my own, to know the ex was up to no good. I am not an advocate of snooping, only because the eight months I lived that way was nothing but pure, living, hell.
You know what you know, and your head and heart are telling you. Turning the goal into gathering evidence, as opposed to planning, and getting your plan together may very well leave you holding a bag of evidence, when she serves you papers.


----------



## TexasCat10

Shooboomafoo said:


> It never took more than what I saw and heard with my own, to know the ex was up to no good. I am not an advocate of snooping, only because the eight months I lived that way was nothing but pure, living, hell.
> You know what you know, and your head and heart are telling you. Turning the goal into gathering evidence, as opposed to planning, and getting your plan together may very well leave you holding a bag of evidence, when she serves you papers.


I do agree w/ what you are saying about what my gut is telling me. I am a very organized planner, so I am already mentally getting ready for my exit. I feel like I need hard evidence bc of outside family pressure, though. As I mentioned my wife and I seemed destined to be together from highschool but never had the right opportunity until we were older. She is related to my best friend from childhood who is like a brother to me. Our wedding was awesome and everyone thought we were a match made in heaven. On paper we seem perfect. My parents love her like their own daughter and her parents love me like their own son. So for me to just leave her bc I have a hunch will be very difficult. Besides if she is cheating, she deserves to be exposed and have everyone know what she did to me. She care a lot about what other people think, especially her parents. If they find out what she has done, the shame will be extraordinary!


----------



## Shooboomafoo

Just dont let it take ahold of you, and keep you stuck looking for more and more, simply becuase you are giving her the benefit of the doubt. Dont make excuses for her. What everyone in your family, and her family thinks is of NO consequence. My ex actually started on Xanax shortly prior to her indiscretions, and when I saw all the texts back and forth on the cell phone bill, she split our cell phone plan into seperate plans, to prevent me from looking. 

The position of snooping is one of weakness and powerlessness. When you find solid evidence, you will find ways to negate it and dismiss it. So, MORE will be necessary. 
To see her "shamed" is really a miniscule goal to have right now...
becuase none of it will matter, her family, her, mutual friends, none of it, when its all said and done. 

coming from a guy that was in the middle of finding out more and more information, when I was given the divorce papers instead of filing myself. ALL that "detective work" didnt matter one-damned-bit.
Her family, is going to side with her no matter what. It is not your job, to prove to them what kind of cheater she is. Even so, if it were plain as day, what would their shame in her do for you?


----------



## EleGirl

Shooboomafoo said:


> It never took more than what I saw and heard with my own, to know the ex was up to no good. I am not an advocate of snooping, only because the eight months I lived that way was nothing but pure, living, hell.
> You know what you know, and your head and heart are telling you. Turning the goal into gathering evidence, as opposed to planning, and getting your plan together may very well leave you holding a bag of evidence, when she serves you papers.


I have read statistics that when men get the gut feeling that their spouse is cheating, they are wrong something like 80% of the time.

Women are much more accurate in this gut feeling... something like right 80% of the time. 

I think it's wrong to divorce someone because your gut says they are cheating. Solid evidence, as much as it's hard on a person is essential.

What was important to me was to get just enough evidence that I knew beyond a doubt what my husband was up to. It was so that I knew I was making the right decision to leave.


----------



## turnera

Why don't you go talk to her parents, then?


----------



## Shooboomafoo

I had my ex's mother living with us. I had moved her into our house in her time of need more than once in our marriage. Despite "loving me" and actually we still get along, I hugged her last week, when picking up my daughter, the woman was bound by blood. Its real easy to think they love you, and they may always, but their daughter is their primary concern, whether in the right or the wrong. Youre setting yourself up for some major disappointment if you expect much from them.


----------



## turnera

She may know something you don't.


----------



## keko

Shooboomafoo said:


> Her family, is going to side with her no matter what.


This is likely but not true always. Some families actually have a backbone to disavow disloyal family members.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

Fvstringpicker said:


> No Ele, I don't. I do dishes, laundry, vacuum, mop etc., plus maintain the landscape, work on vehicles, home maintenance, and today run a backhoe in 104 degree heat. But the difference between me and the way Tex sounds is that *I don't do it to get laid *and my wife certainly doesn't lay around talking to and texting other guys.
> However, if I ever discover that type activity on her part, I'll be doing the above by and for myself.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Not to get too far off topic, but this is a huge point that bears repeating. Women don't like or respect men who wait on them with the expectation that it will buy sex. They do like and respect and are attracted to men who pull their own weight and take care of their crap. So doing housework won't get you laid. But doing your part to take care of the household (which may included some housework) will help get your wife's respect and attraction.

The OP may be able to use this with his wife to improve things.


----------



## EleGirl

Tall Average Guy said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree:
> 
> Not to get too far off topic, but this is a huge point that bears repeating. *Women don't like or respect men who wait on them with the expectation that it will buy sex. They do like and respect and are attracted to men who pull their own weight and take care of their crap. * So doing housework won't get you laid. But doing your part to take care of the household (which may included some housework) will help get your wife's respect and attraction.
> 
> The OP may be able to use this with his wife to improve things.


:iagree: :iagree:

I like the way you put that. I've been trying to say exactly that put using way too many words. If you don't mind I'm going to use your words in the future.


----------



## Shooboomafoo

Wow, people still barter chores with sex? Or, have they ever?
I did chores, becuase my wife worked too, and brought in an income as well as I did. I didnt expect her to come home and cover those bases all by herself too. To do so, would have been unfair. 
It never affected any amount of sex, either way.


----------



## Shooboomafoo

keko said:


> This is likely but not true always. Some families actually have a backbone to disavow disloyal family members.


Yes, I was not stating an absolute. But I wouldnt mind hearing one of the stories youre talking about.


----------



## turnera

Sadly, shoo, you are a minority.


----------



## turnera

Shooboomafoo said:


> Yes, I was not stating an absolute. But I wouldnt mind hearing one of the stories youre talking about.


 I know one lady who's husband's sister gave her the money to hire the PI.


----------



## Shooboomafoo

"I have read statistics that when men get the gut feeling that their spouse is cheating, they are wrong something like 80% of the time.

Women are much more accurate in this gut feeling... something like right 80% of the time."

Hmm... informative.


----------



## Shooboomafoo

turnera said:


> I know one lady who's husband's sister gave her the money to hire the PI.


Thats because her sister wanted a piece of that manly goodness.


----------



## somethingelse

Machiavelli said:


> BTW, I'm 55. I was also tainted by Matriarchal propaganda, but not to the extent as the present generation. For example, my own son comes home every day to cold pots and pans and makes the family dinner. Pathetic. He doesn't see the danger, but I'm still waving the red lantern alongside the tracks.




Hmmm.....then I must not have been influenced much by Matriarchal propaganda ::scratch head: neither my H...


----------



## keko

Shooboomafoo said:


> Yes, I was not stating an absolute. But I wouldnt mind hearing one of the stories youre talking about.


My ex wife. The last time I was in contact with her, she was just about by herself. Her family on the other hand still invite me to dinner's once in a while.


----------



## Shooboomafoo

Interesting, Keko. My ex came from a divorced family, so I guess neither of them could say a whole lot.


----------



## keko

Shooboomafoo said:


> Interesting, Keko. My ex came from a divorced family, so I guess neither of them could say a whole lot.


I wouldn't base it so much on being divorced or not(since infidelity was involved in mine). More on having family values, a decent morality, and not giving them up for life.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

Shooboomafoo said:


> Wow, people still barter chores with sex? Or, have they ever?
> I did chores, becuase my wife worked too, and brought in an income as well as I did. I didnt expect her to come home and cover those bases all by herself too. To do so, would have been unfair.
> It never affected any amount of sex, either way.


Some people still do. It is a covert contract as described in No More Mr. Guy. I would recommend this book to the OP. While not a full on "Nice Guy", I did recognize some traits that were hurting me and my relationships with others. It was useful to explore them and work on myself.


----------



## turnera

Shooboomafoo said:


> Thats because her sister wanted a piece of that manly goodness.


 No, it was the cheating husband's sister who helped the OP get the goods on her own brother.


----------



## Shooboomafoo

So, would you guys say that more often than not, the family of a cheater will disown them?
This has not been my experience at all, in any of the divorces Ive been witness to. The family of the cheater has always taken on this "wellllll, he/she did wrong, but we still love them, and blood is thicker than water"..
Even my own MIL had absolutely nothing to say to my wife about discernment or the possibility of tearing her family apart.
I think there is a big percentage difference between families of cheaters that welcome them back despite their mistakes, versus those that side with the person being cheated on. 
Even friends would make excuses for her, never heard much from their family other than her mother who lived with us.


----------



## somethingelse

I think most families would feel betrayed in some way or another, or just disappointed. I don't know if a lot of families would disown their cheater son or daughter. Maybe some would? I wouldn't say more often, but less often. Blood is definitely thicker than water most times.


----------



## TexasCat10

somethingelse said:


> I think most families would feel betrayed in some way or another, or just disappointed. I don't know if a lot of families would disown their cheater son or daughter. Maybe some would? I wouldn't say more often, but less often. Blood is definitely thicker than water most times.


I am not saying that her family would disown her, just be very dissappointed. They are a very tight knit family. But my wife has always dated the bad boy/loser types and I think her parents always hoped she would settle down w/ someone more like...me.  So I think when I came into the picture they were super relieved and excited. Also keep in mind that my wife viewed me as a bad boy at one point in our youth bc of the guys I grew up w/. Although that was true 10 years ago, they have all matured and are married w/ children, so not so tough any more.
Also, I mentioned my best friend is related to her. This aspect will make it very awkward at future family events. Blood may be thicker than water, but our friendship is as close to blood as it can get and he will feel very betrayed for me.


----------



## somethingelse

TexasCat10 said:


> I am not saying that her family would disown her, just be very dissappointed. They are a very tight knit family. But my wife has always dated the bad boy/loser types and I think her parents always hoped she would settle down w/ someone more like...me.  So I think when I came into the picture they were super relieved and excited. Also keep in mind that my wife viewed me as a bad boy at one point in our youth bc of the guys I grew up w/. Although that was true 10 years ago, they have all matured and are married w/ children, so not so tough any more.
> Also, I mentioned my best friend is related to her. This aspect will make it very awkward at future family events. Blood may be thicker than water, but our friendship is as close to blood as it can get and he will feel very betrayed for me.



I'm sure he will feel betrayed for you. It's sad that things have to be this way sometimes in relationships. But they do. 

What do you think you are going to do now about all of this? What are your plans?


----------



## TexasCat10

somethingelse said:


> I'm sure he will feel betrayed for you. It's sad that things have to be this way sometimes in relationships. But they do.
> 
> What do you think you are going to do now about all of this? What are your plans?


Yeah it does suck, we could have had a great life together if she just wanted to be a part of my team rather than doing what ever makes her happy. She came after me when we reunited so I never imagined she would have lost interest in what she said she wanted so badly, a life w/ me.

I am going to gather all of the evidence I can and hopefully I do find what I am looking for. I would much rather go ahead and get a divorce than to continue to worry when the next EA or PA happens. I was ok for 10 years as a Bachelor, so I will be ok moving back into that role.
I really feel strongly I need the evidence. She is too good of a liar/manipulator to just tell her I feel like she is cheating. Although all of the recent activity w/ my so called friend points to infidelity, to end my marriage on just a hunch will be difficult.
So today I am anxiously waiting for her to come home from work. Probably more excited than I been for a long time for her arrival home. I will check my VAR and see what I find. Depending on that, I will either confront her if there is something on the VAR, or continue to monitor her if there is not.
Not sure how long I will continue the monitoring if I continue to come up empty, though.


----------



## Shaggy

Don't confront too soon! And never revel your methods or sources.

Take var and go out on an errand and listen to it.


----------



## TexasCat10

Shaggy said:


> Don't confront too soon! And never revel your methods or sources.
> 
> Take var and go out on an errand and listen to it.


Shaggy, you have offerred a lot of great advice in my time of need, and I will continue to follow it! Thank you!
I already palnned on when and where I am going to go when she gets home so I can listen in private.


----------



## aug

TexasCat10 said:


> Shaggy, you have offerred a lot of great advice in my time of need, and I will continue to follow it! Thank you!
> I already palnned on when and where I am going to go when she gets home so I can listen in private.


Dont forget to get at least 2 VARs so that when you are listening to one, the other VAR is still monitoring.


----------



## somethingelse

TexasCat10 said:


> I really feel strongly I need the evidence. She is too good of a
> liar/manipulator to just tell her I feel like she is cheating. Although all of the recent activity w/ my so called friend points to infidelity, to end my marriage on just a hunch will be difficult.



Yeah, don't even bother with doing the whole talk thing now, so pointless. I know where you are coming from. 

You did say earlier in your thread that you saw on her phone bill that they were talking did you not? Coming from the outside, and having this been done to me before, I just see it all clear as day when I read this.


----------



## Shooboomafoo

somethingelse said:


> Yeah, don't even bother with doing the whole talk thing now, so pointless. I know where you are coming from.
> 
> You did say earlier in your thread that you saw on her phone bill that they were talking did you not? Coming from the outside, and having this been done to me before, I just see it all clear as day when I read this.


A few of the "Cell Phone Infidelity" Flags that I saw:

--cell rings, she takes it into the bathroom.
-- password protected phone, whatcha hiding?
-- ridiculous amount of msgs or calls back and forth (not just-a-friend)
-- Splitting up the cell phone plan into two, and changing the online pass so that I cant see how many times they continue to talk.
---family camping outing twice yearly, this time, she spends predominantly the entire time in the tent, with her cellphone.

All the hiding, lying, deceit... Pretty much spelled it out for me. To this day, she still says she never slept with him, but has admitted to lunches, and has come home after a 4 hour shopping trip with one little bag from walmart. 
Do whatever it takes to make yourself aware of the situation. I just wanted to warn you of how easy it can become obsessive, only because I spent so much time on it, when I should have been preparing.


----------



## TexasCat10

somethingelse said:


> Yeah, don't even bother with doing the whole talk thing now, so pointless. I know where you are coming from.
> 
> You did say earlier in your thread that you saw on her phone bill that they were talking did you not? Coming from the outside, and having this been done to me before, I just see it all clear as day when I read this.


Yeah, there were 3 calls of over 30 minutes in the month of July. There were a couple of others, but I was able to timeline them as calls when I asked her to call him bc we were about to meet up for dinner.


----------



## the guy

Be prepared for the blameshifting, when you do have to confront her. keep your emotions in check and come up with a plan.


You can confronter her indirectly by finding out who the OM is and confront him or his wife/girl friend before confronting WW.

There is alot to having an effective confrontation so take the time to make a plan and work the plan.


----------



## somethingelse

TexasCat10 said:


> Yeah, there were 3 calls of over 30 minutes in the month of July. There were a couple of others, but I was able to timeline them as calls when I asked her to call him bc we were about to meet up for dinner.



Hmm....and they talked at 12:30 am on the phone together while you were asleep? That's not good. In my eyes, even if they haven't actually slept together, the fact that your friend of so many years would have that much disrespect is appalling. And your wife has no boundaries with your friend.

But like I've already said, I've had a girlfriend do this to me and try to steal my H away, and unfortunately while I sat idly by, they had a full out fling. 

But if it takes more evidence for you to find out that this is going on, then do it.


----------



## Machiavelli

TexasCat10 said:


> @Machiavelli, This was my attempt to respond to each of your comments from your 1st thread to me. Sorry, I am very new to this and do not know how to navigate the messaging very well.


No problem. I was able to follow along just fine. You've got a lot in common with my natural self. My daughter tells me I'm a "Sigma" since I'm not that much into the social game but still am very attractive to women. That may be true today, but wasn't true back in the day. I never had to chase a woman, they chased me. Very hot women. Unfortunately, much like you, I didn't want to be the ******* alpha, like my brothers. This was due to my religious beliefs, basically. I wanted to be a nice guy and considerate of all the women who were trying to sit in my lap. The problem is that those nice guy traits go against the attraction dictates of the female limbic brain. Your answers to the questions and comments show that your wife's "rationalization hamster" is running full tilt boogie lowering your sex value, due to these traits you have. I've been there, too.

You're a plenty smart guy and you are obviously able to learn and adapt. You need to move on from this smoking ruin of a relationship and learn game. MMSL and Roissy's are the places to start IMHO. This new knowledge can be utilized to great effect in your upcoming single glory days. Start getting cut, eat like you're getting ready for BB show until you get around 10% BF. A few years from now, you'll have a high integrity, super hot woman and you'll know how to handle her. Chalk this one up for experience.


----------



## TexasCat10

Ok, so here is my 1st days update w/ the VAR. Unfortunately I was not able to find anything w/ what I heard. Everything was as aspected. It took her 20 minutes to get to work and to get home (normal) and all I heard was music and her singing along w/ music and a phone call w/ her mom. :-(

I have planted it again today so we will see what we find.

I do have one question for those who have used the VARs. Is there a good brand that isnt that expensive? I need to buy a couple more but the current one I have is an RCA w/ terrible battery life. I need something that could last a week on VAR mode as I am about to leave out of town for biz. This seems to be a perfect time for her to let her guard down and make a mistake.


----------



## Chaparral

One poster said best buy sells a great one. Olympus brand @ $99

Its the only one I remember seeing mentioned by brand and price.


----------



## lovelygirl

Machiavelli said:


> "Sigma" .


I don't remember the thread which had the difference between the types of men.
I'm unclear about the definition of Sigma and Omega.


----------



## Chaparral

Check google for reveiws?


----------



## lovelygirl

chapparal said:


> Check google for reveiws?


I had googled. Read some reviews. Still unlcear.


----------



## Shaggy

If you are going to be out of town for a while, another option is a nanny cam/webcam that you can log into remotely or which automatically uploads pics when it detects movement. 

I haven't looked at these things in years but even a few years ago they were small and took good images.


----------



## Machiavelli

lovelygirl said:


> I don't remember the thread which had the difference between the types of men.
> I'm unclear about the definition of Sigma and Omega.


Male Socio-Sexual Hierarchy


----------



## lovelygirl

Machiavelli said:


> Male Socio-Sexual Hierarchy


Very helpful. Thanx!


----------



## Ansley

TexasCat10 said:


> Ok, so here is my 1st days update w/ the VAR. Unfortunately I was not able to find anything w/ what I heard. Everything was as aspected. It took her 20 minutes to get to work and to get home (normal) and all I heard was music and her singing along w/ music and a phone call w/ her mom. :-(
> 
> I have planted it again today so we will see what we find.
> 
> I do have one question for those who have used the VARs. Is there a good brand that isnt that expensive? I need to buy a couple more but the current one I have is an RCA w/ terrible battery life. I need something that could last a week on VAR mode as I am about to leave out of town for biz. This seems to be a perfect time for her to let her guard down and make a mistake.



time to step it up since you are leaving town. it wont be a pleasant trip for you but you will learn alot when you get back.


----------



## theroad

You need a digital VAR. Digital used no tape so it uses less power, batteries run longer.


----------



## TexasCat10

theroad said:


> You need a digital VAR. Digital used no tape so it uses less power, batteries run longer.


I do have a digital VAR. I actually bought another one yesterday that said it has a 77 hour battery life. I am ok on a daily basis but I wanted to have something that could record most of the week I will be gone. But that may not matter any way now. I think on my 2nd day I have found something...


----------



## Caribbean Man

TexasCat10 said:


> I do have a digital VAR. I actually bought another one yesterday that said it has a 77 hour battery life. *I am ok on a daily basis but I wanted to have something that could record most of the week I will be gone. But that may not matter any way now. I think on my 2nd day I have found something...[*/QUOTE]
> :scratchhead:
> What have you found?


----------



## TexasCat10

Ok, so on my 2nd day of VARing, I think I found what I have been afraid of. I set the VAR up in her car for her rides to and from work bc that is the only times we are not together. The 1st day was nothing, but the 2nd day I heard an 18 minute ph conversation on her way home from work w/ someone she was very open w/. She showed she cared by actually fighting and cussing at the other person for some reason. I could not hear the other side of the convo, but the words and tone proved it was more than just a friend. Nothing incrimminating was said but it was another secret conversation. She had no phone calls on her personal cell. I have access to the records and checked. So, as I suspected, she is using her work cell that is locked.

One thing this discovery may have done is ruled out my suspicious friend, though. The things she talked about to the other person were not things that fit for my suspicious friend. It could still be there is something there but I am persuing my other hunch 1st.

I think this convo was w/ the same Ex-BF as before w/ all the calls and texts. I should have came to this site when those things happened bc I prob would already be divorced and not dealing w/ this now. But 3 strikes and she is definitely out this time.
But what to do now???


----------



## Machiavelli

Depends on what you want to do. If it's strike three, you don't really need to keep monitoring. Just print out the forms and have her sign them. If you want to find out the who, what, where, why, and how, in the case that you are susceptible to gaslighting, you should keep monitoring. Same thing if you feel the need to prevent her from spinning the story to friends or family. If you want to give her one last chance (I don't know why you would), ask her to unlock her work phone and hand it to you.


----------



## turnera

Are you done?


----------



## TexasCat10

Since this could quite possibly be my D-Day, I need some advice on how to handle this. I am pretty sure I am ready for a divorce and I do not want to continue my life w/ this woman at all. The last 2 times, I let it go w/ her manipulating me that it was nothing and she would stop contacting the Ex. Foolishly I believed her. So I dont want to mess this D-Day up. I am shaking w/ anger at the moment and I am likely to make a bad decision...

But as I have mentioned, I will be going out of town soon and wanted to see what my VAR found while I am completely out of the picture. I know I will probably hear something I really do not want to, but I really want to have as much proof as possible so she can not talk her way out of it.

I also requested the text records from Sprint. Online you can only see the amount of texts, but no dates, ph #'s, or content. I think I can use this to cross reference all the deleted texts I have been keeping track of. At the very least I can see who she is texting and when.

Finally, I have recently found out I have a mutual friend of the Ex. He has agreed to meet w/ me and tell me some info that would help my case further. He mentioned he is tired of this woman taking advantage of 2 of his friends.

Due to the logistics of my marriage, I will probably have to move in w/ my parents for a little while (ugh, that sucks! I never thought that woudl happen at 35 yrs old!). Any sugggestions on my exit are also appreciated.


----------



## Shooboomafoo

TexasCat10, Im sorry man, I know that isnt what you hoped to find.

In case you are starting to plan for divorce, it would help to know what your rights, and obligations are, such that at least you might be able to draft up some kind of divorce agreement rather than fight it all out in court. Since the judges here in TX go strictly by the standard order, here is the link to the family code here in TX, for you to take a look at and know what will be expected of you, and what your rights are.
TCAS - Home


----------



## TexasCat10

Machiavelli said:


> Depends on what you want to do. If it's strike three, you don't really need to keep monitoring. Just print out the forms and have her sign them. If you want to find out the who, what, where, why, and how, in the case that you are susceptible to gaslighting, you should keep monitoring. Same thing if you feel the need to prevent her from spinning the story to friends or family. If you want to give her one last chance (I don't know why you would), ask her to unlock her work phone and hand it to you.


It is definitley strike 3 but I dont think I have a enough to pull the trigger just yet. She is obliviouis that I could ever find out and is probably so happy she now has a work phone to use.
I think after I get the text message report from Sprint, I will have more than enough info w/ or w/out further VARing. To be honest, the VARing is quite tiring and could get me caught. I will continue my recording this week, but may not VAR her car while I am gone, only the house (less likely to be discovered).

Can you explain "gaslighting"?

I do not want to R, I just want out.
I think I may also want to see her phone any way. Bad idea?


----------



## turnera

If you're going to be out of town, you ought to set up a VAR or camera in your house that plugs into the wall so you don't have to rely on batteries.

As for D-Day, prepare in advance what you'll be doing. Do you have kids?


----------



## turnera

Gaslighting is the cheater speaking babble that convinces you that you are the crazy one, it's all explainable, you're just being paranoid, yada yada.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Gaslighting is a term used to describe how the WS will make you feel crazy for doubting them even if you obvious evidence, terms are in the newbie link in my signature


----------



## Caribbean Man

TexasCat10 said:


> It is definitley strike 3 but I dont think I have a enough to pull the trigger just yet. She is obliviouis that I could ever find out and is probably so happy she now has a work phone to use.
> I think after I get the text message report from Sprint, I will have more than enough info w/ or w/out further VARing. To be honest, the VARing is quite tiring and could get me caught. I will continue my recording this week, but may not VAR her car while I am gone, only the house (less likely to be discovered).
> 
> *Can you explain "gaslighting"?*
> 
> I do not want to R, I just want out.
> I think I may also want to see her phone any way. Bad idea?


^^^^^
Gaslighting means ,
When you confront her, she tells you stuff that and you end up feeling that you are the wrong one or that you are crazy in your head.[ even though you know you are right.]


----------



## Machiavelli

TexasCat10 said:


> It is definitley strike 3 but I dont think I have a enough to pull the trigger just yet. She is obliviouis that I could ever find out and is probably so happy she now has a work phone to use.
> I think after I get the text message report from Sprint, I will have more than enough info w/ or w/out further VARing. To be honest, the VARing is quite tiring and could get me caught. I will continue my recording this week, but may not VAR her car while I am gone, only the house (less likely to be discovered).
> 
> Can you explain "gaslighting"?
> 
> I do not want to R, I just want out.
> I think I may also want to see her phone any way. Bad idea?


If you've got the VAR velcroed to the bottom of her car seat, you won't get caught. Have you put a GPS on her car? They may not be able to resist your bed while you're gone, so put a VAR under there, too.

Gaslighting is the systematic, deliberate process of making one think they are delusional. Google the movie "Gaslight." The best example I've ever seen was in a movie from the sixties called "A Guide for the Married Man." The wife catches the WH and his GF in the act and all parties act like nothing out of the usual was observed. The GF dresses and leaves and the WH starts reading the newspaper or something. After a while, the wife figures she must be nuts and asks the WH "what do you want for dinner."

The car VAR is still the best tool. They let their hair down in the car. They think it's Maxwell Smart's "Cone of Silence."


----------



## TexasCat10

turnera said:


> If you're going to be out of town, you ought to set up a VAR or camera in your house that plugs into the wall so you don't have to rely on batteries.
> 
> As for D-Day, prepare in advance what you'll be doing. Do you have kids?


They make a VAR that plugs in to the wall? I did not see that any where I looked. Do you know where I can find that and a good brand?

We do not have kids. (thank my lucky stars!)
But where should I start? Should I confide in my parents 1st and let them know I will need a place to stay, then confront her? Or confront her 1st above all else?


----------



## Almostrecovered

to me the best order for confrontation-

1) consult lawyer
2) expose to AP's SO and any other exposures you feel are necessary
3) confront WS


----------



## turnera

TexasCat10 said:


> They make a VAR that plugs in to the wall? I did not see that any where I looked. Do you know where I can find that and a good brand?
> 
> We do not have kids. (thank my lucky stars!)
> But where should I start? Should I confide in my parents 1st and let them know I will need a place to stay, then confront her? Or confront her 1st above all else?


Oh, I have no idea. There's bound to be something out there that will work.

If you are going to confront her to get her to stop so that you can recover the marriage, you will:

Find out your rights with a lawyer (can you kick her out, can she take your money, etc.)

Gather your proof and make a copy that you keep elsewhere so she can't destroy it

Sit her down and tell her you know she's cheating and you expect it to stop

When she refuses, or when you catch her again, you go straight to HER parents and siblings, best friend(s), and any other important people in her life, whose respect she craves - all in one sitting or visiting them all in one evening; ask them to support your bid to save the marriage by getting OM out of the picture; explain to them that, once he's out, and if you two make a good effort to fix any problems, and she still wants out, you'll abide by her wishes, but it's not fair to the marriage to do anything while OM is still in the picture because she won't have her priorities straight; you may want to educate them a little about PEA chemicals and affair fog

Then call OM's wife and/or parents and let them know what he's doing; ask them to talk to him 

Sit back and wait for the firestorm that will hit you once she finds out. You'll hear things like I was GOING to choose YOU, but now you've ruined it. Or my parents think you're crazy and they're glad I'm leaving you. Or I'm calling a lawyer tomorrow! Just ignore it all. Repeat nothing but "I'm fighting to save my marriage from an interloper."

Wait and see what happens. Once everyone knows, the cheaters will have to make a decision: continue and deal with the shame and you make plans to divorce, or stop the affair and return to the marriage. Or she may just try to kick you out. No matter what, it'll be better than what you have now.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

Arrrgh! What's up with these waywards? It seems like they're everywhere. An attractive 30-something woman steps out of a brand new Cadillac Escalade and comes into my establishment with four kids in tow (ranging from 18 months to 7 years old.) I help her and somehow she mentions her boyfriend and ex husband during our conversation. Before getting cheated on I would never have paid much attention to her situation, but now my 'cake-eating-cheater' senses start to tingle like crazy.

After she exited with her brood, I go online and check the family courts record. Sure enough, she filed for divorce from her first husband in 2005 and her second one was final in January of this year (with no mention of the 18 month old in the petition.)

I know -- sometimes I just have too much time on my hand, but I'm just becoming sensitive to cheaters. 

(Of course, I could be wrong and she's not a cheater. She probably was just fortunate to be able to find a man to take care of her and the four kids.)


----------



## Shaggy

Look, just because she's talking to #1, doesn't mean she isn't flirting/fooling around with #2.

You said the one guy come over a lot, why haven't you done my setup like I suggested when he comes over - find a way to leave the house for an hour for sure and give them time to feel safe and to talk/hookup, then make sure you come home 25 early and be noisy when you come in. Make sure you have the second var outside where they'll go to smoke, because they will talk about almost getting caught!


----------



## aug

TexasCat10 said:


> They make a VAR that plugs in to the wall? I did not see that any where I looked. Do you know where I can find that and a good brand?
> 
> We do not have kids. (thank my lucky stars!)
> But where should I start? Should I confide in my parents 1st and let them know I will need a place to stay, then confront her? Or confront her 1st above all else?



Take a look at brickhouse security and other spy store.

Get a camera recorder for your house?


----------



## aug

I would think the first few things you need to do are:
- remove yourself from any joint bank accounts (keep your own money)
- remove yourself from any loans/debts/mortgage (make up some excuse so she does not suspect)
- remove her from your will, insurance, etc
- remove any of your important papers, assets from your home
- make copies of your evidence and keep a copy away from the house (at your parents?)
- talk to lawyers, have one ready


----------



## aug

She probably has a burner phone? Hidden in her car?


----------



## Shaggy

Her work phone is locked, but you may be able to guess the code. Is it a touch screen? If you an look at the screen on an angle in the light you might be able to see which buttons she presses to unlock it as these will be the ones that have the most finger prints on them.

That might get to your down a set of 4 numbers to try combinations of.


----------



## TexasCat10

Shaggy said:


> Look, just because she's talking to #1, doesn't mean she isn't flirting/fooling around with #2.
> 
> You said the one guy come over a lot, why haven't you done my setup like I suggested when he comes over - find a way to leave the house for an hour for sure and give them time to feel safe and to talk/hookup, then make sure you come home 25 early and be noisy when you come in. Make sure you have the second var outside where they'll go to smoke, because they will talk about almost getting caught!


I agree w/ you that the possibility could be she is cheating on me w/ the Ex and w/ my friend. But as I mentioned, leaving them alone for that long would be difficult. He rarely comes over in the daytime. Its always after we have all been out on the town (dinner/drinks). And we are usually not alone w/ the 3 of us. We are usually in a group or 5-7. The one time I left her alone, I was actually w/ a group of 4. Myself and my other buddy went to get him something to eat and it was around 10 pm. 
No disrespect, I really appreciate your advice, but I dont think I need to attempt to create this scenario w/ my wife and suspicious friend. It doesnt really matter at this point. I have 2 more very good pieces of evidence that are about to be uncovered; Text report from Sprint, and meeting w/ mutual friend to find out more info. Besides if my suspicious friend still wants her after me, thats fine. He can deal w/ the Ex-BF, that I dont think my STBExW will ever let go.


----------



## TexasCat10

Shaggy said:


> Her work phone is locked, but you may be able to guess the code. Is it a touch screen? If you an look at the screen on an angle in the light you might be able to see which buttons she presses to unlock it as these will be the ones that have the most finger prints on them.
> 
> That might get to your down a set of 4 numbers to try combinations of.


Ok, I will try that. I have tried unlocking it w/ the PW she uses virtually for everything but it failed. The phone is a work phone so it only gives you 5 tries then I'd imagine it locks and she will have to take it to her Ops team. After 1 failed attempt, I quit bc I was worried of being caught.


----------



## TexasCat10

SeaMaiden said:


> TexasCat10 - I want to share a story from the flip side so you can see where your wife is not being appropriate at all... when I first married my current husband I had alot of male friends. One of those was an ex boyfriend who had moved out of state 2 years prior and we had remained friends - we didn't flirt or talk inappropriately, we were just friends. I thought nothing of it. But my husband did not like that I was still texting this man and told me to please stop having contact with him, it made him uncomfortable, he didn't like it and he wanted me to stop. I did.
> 
> Now, I was also very independent, so when my husband gave me his passwords to his computer and emails and facebook, and then asked for mine, I at first bristled at the idea. Why couldn't he just trust me? But he'd been cheated on before in the past, had a very rocky history in relationships, and just wanted no secrets, total honesty between us. I gave him all of my passwords because I have nothing to hide from him.
> 
> Your wife should have broken off contact with the ex when you asked. She should also not be locking her phone or doing any other "sneaky" thing. She is disrespectful to you and your relationship. I haven't read through all of the posts on here, I'm not sure what decisions you have made since your original post, but I hope you have found the courage to confront her and let her know that her behavior has been tolerated long enough. There are many other beautiful women out there who would treat you with respect and true love.


Thank you for your insight. I totally agree w/ you. Although I have never been cheated on prior to this relationship (that I know of) , the prior 2 instances I have had w/ my wife and her Ex have made me very untrusting of her and very suspicious. 2 Traits I did not have prior to my marriage. I really would have liked to spend the rest of my life w/ this woman, but I dont think I can ever trust her again. Its just too much work and to really be honest she sucks over all as a wife. I always imagined my marriage to be a team as my parents seem to have, but w/ her I have been the ball boy and she is the All-Star. I am a Star myself, and I just need to find someone who wants to be a team player and not the selfish person I married.


----------



## keko

TexasCat10 said:


> Ok, I will try that. I have tried unlocking it w/ the PW she uses virtually for everything but it failed. The phone is a work phone so it only gives you 5 tries then I'd imagine it locks and she will have to take it to her Ops team. After 1 failed attempt, I quit bc I was worried of being caught.


Why not? This will force her to use the other phone and you'll likely get the number she's been talking to.


----------



## TexasCat10

keko said:


> Why not? This will force her to use the other phone and you'll likely get the number she's been talking to.


I am trying to keep my spying secretive. If she has any idea I am snooping she will stop and then start Gaslighting (thx for the def btw). I need to gather as much evidence as I can w/out her suspecting anything. She is careless when she thinks I have no idea. I have to use that to my advantage.


----------



## Shaggy

The phone may lockout after 5, but it likely will just wait a bit before giving another 5 tries. It would be too much hassle for her corp guys to have to unlock phones as only 5 fails.


----------



## turnera

I agree. Go for it. If nothing else, you can just feign innocence.


----------



## the guy

Velcrow the VAR under the seat.

Keep going the "make up" convo is just around the corner...that will be the smoking gun.

So since there was a fight then there is soon to be a make up convo which may include "i love you" or some other lovey dovey crap. 

Stay focused cuz you are correct, need just a little more evidence that will solidify the steps you take next...with out doubt or regret, and undeniable to other. 

This evidence will be the ammo you will need to do the damage control you will need when STBXW tries to blame the divorce on you.


----------



## the guy

What good about confirming who the OM's are, is if they have a girl friend or wife you could actually expose the evidence to them first.
This exposure will surely get to your wife. Often this tactic results in the OM making your STBXW the bad guy. The OM's will throw your STBXW under the bus to save there own relationship.


----------



## the guy

Whats good about not confronting STBXW and just walking away and go completely dark is it leaves your STBXW in the dark just like she has done to you with her affairs. Letting days go by before informing her with divorce papers that you will no longer share her w/ OM's


----------



## the guy

Since R is out of the question and no kids involved then going dark can be empowering.

Often you can confront face to face and have it out. This tactic may give some saticfaction, but since R is not an option what would the point be to listening to blameshifting and then listen to her beg for the marriage, while she trickel truths the whole affiar.

If you are expecting to get this full on confession and get some understanding on why....well don't count on it.

If you do reconsider R then exposure and a face to face is the best bet. It will give you the oppertunity to state your boundries and consequences.


----------



## TexasCat10

the guy said:


> What good about confirming who the OM's are, is if they have a girl friend or wife you could actually expose the evidence to them first.
> This exposure will surely get to your wife. Often this tactic results in the OM making your STBXW the bad guy. The OM's will throw your STBXW under the bus to save there own relationship.


A few people have suggested this too but the issue is the OM does not have a W or GF (I dont think). To be honest I think she has been having at the very very least an EA ever since we have been married. He may even be waiting until I finally found out and divorce her or she has been promising him she would leave me but has been unable to keep that promise. As far as I know this could have been going on for 3 years (the entire time we have been married). She is good, huh?


----------



## the guy

Ya she is good at being a POS....LOL

Whats your thoughts about going dark? You know, the idea of her coming home and finding you and your stuff gone...I'd even take the pets if it was me.

Some folks here have done that and they didn't have to deal with there waywards crap.


----------



## TexasCat10

the guy said:


> Ya she is good at being a POS....LOL
> 
> Whats your thoughts about going dark? You know, the idea of her coming home and finding you and your stuff gone...I'd even take the pets if it was me.
> 
> Some folks here have done that and they didn't have to deal with there waywards crap.


Yes, she is def that! :smthumbup:

I am not 100% sure what I want to do at the moment. The reality of ending my marriage is still hard to swallow. I modeled my own marriage after my parents. They have been together over 35 years and work as a great team. I followed my dad's advice that I should only marry someone if she is at least as good as my mom. I thought after waiting 30 years, I had found that person. She was beautiful, smart, fun, and we grew up together. All those things seemed to equal a good wife. I have found out the hard way they just dont make many like my mom any more. I know many on here may see that as a weakness, but all I have ever known is that my parents seemed to work it out through thick and thin. I feel they raised me to be a good person, so that is what I try to be. But nice = weak to my wife. And now she will see just how weak I am, as I am walking out the door.
Right now I just want every one to know that she is a lying POS. I have had 3 really close firends end thier marriages over the last year bc their wives cheated on them and she was always right there saying how horrible all these woman were, when she was doing exactly the same thing. I want the guilt to come crashing down on her! But this is my anger talking right now. This may not even matter to her. I have a couple weeks until the Sprint report gets here. I am going to think on my strategy until then.


----------



## In_The_Wind

Their is an old saying we truly do not know who we married until you go thru a divorce with them People change some for the better some for the worse relationships tend to bring these changes out jmo


----------



## TexasCat10

In_The_Wind said:


> Their is an old saying we truly do not know who we married until you go thru a divorce with them People change some for the better some for the worse relationships tend to bring these changes out jmo


I am certainly finding that out the hard way too. When I listened to the 2nd VAR this morining, the voice I heard was not that of my wife but of a stranger. It was very weird yet eye opening to hear that 1st hand.

It is very nice to have this site to help me get through this, though. I did not have anyone I could turn to initially bc we have too close of mutual friends. I did not want them or my family to know the truth unless I was absolutely sure.


----------



## somethingelse

I have a strong feeling her text records will just be a cherry on the cake...

I am still testing to see if my H has the ability to stay faithful. As I read your responses, I see my own situation to a T. 

These people show no remorse, feel no remorse, and do not change their ways because they simply do not feel as if what they are doing is wrong. I don't even think they are in the 'fog', but just have a narcissistic personality. Those who have done something wrong at one time in their life, and stop completely, then work on the relationship 100% are those that were in the fog and have come out of the fog (I am testimony to that). 

But unfortunately, people with a narcissistic attitude tend to have a personality trait that cannot be scared straight. 

It takes a mountain to show them that they are wrong.


----------



## keko

You could buy a few nanny/hidden camera's, place them around the house and leave town for a business.


----------



## Chaparral

All kinds of monitoring equip................

BrickHouse Security | Home Security Camera Systems | GPS Surveillance


----------



## TexasCat10

chapparal said:


> All kinds of monitoring equip................
> 
> BrickHouse Security | Home Security Camera Systems | GPS Surveillance



Thanks chapparal, but after the last 2 days of Limbo hell I actually think I am satisfied that I have enough info to confront her. I have given her 2 chances already and that was 1 too many. I have my planned laid out. I was planning on posting it and get some opinions.

If I do post updates like that, do the members of this board prefer to start a new thread? Or continue in this one?


----------



## turnera

continue


----------



## TexasCat10

turnera said:


> continue


Ok, then please advise me if you think this is a good idea or not. Like I said, these last 2 days have been horrible. I have to keep acting like nothing is wrong while my insides feel like they are being ripped out. Sleeping in the same bed, eating dinners, and making plans for the weekend all make me ill.

I listened to the VAR again and was able to slow it down w/ the software it came with. This allowed me to hear what was said a little better. There was still nothing about them ever meeting or any kind of PA. But she is really upset that he is not responding to her attempts to contact him. She even yells at him "When I have ever not responded to you!" I think when I listened to the VAR the 1st time, I was so floored I couldnt tell just how much she cared about him. After the slowed down version I am sure of her feelings and I just want out. As someone else as already said, the Sprint Text records would just be icing on the cake. That is definitley what they will be now. I cannot wait a month for those to get here.

So to make this all a reality I feel I need to tell somone close to me. I have 1 really close friend I believe I can trust. He is part of my final exit strategy as well. My plan was to tell him everything I have discovered and let him know I am leaving her. But I cannot leave just yet. 

The next step is to wait until I get back in town. It will be a Friday. That next day, Saturday, my wife will be having a party to sell some crap tupperware or something. This gives me a perfect chance to meet up w/ my 2 other closest friends and I will tell them what I found as well. The more people I tell, the less chance she will have to change the story and will reveal just how real her "fantasy" world really is. 

Then on Sunday, I plan on confronting my wife. I know exactly how it will go since I have done this 2 times now. But this time I am educated thanks to this site. I will not allow the Gaslighting, Blamshifting, Rug Sweeping, and Hysterical Bonding that has happened those other 2 times. Both leading to a false R. So I will already have my bags packed and will leave immidiately after I drop the news of what I have heard on the VAR. I told her after the 2nd time that if she EVER contacted him again, I would be gone. So this is it, I am leaving for good.


----------



## keko

Dont mention the VAR or any other method you used to gather intel, just say you know it or have her think you hired a PI.

Don't tell your friends or her until you figured out who the OM is(if it's a different one), his significant other and the extent of their relationship(EA,PA or just close friendship).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TexasCat10

keko said:


> Dont mention the VAR or any other method you used to gather intel, just say you know it or have her think you hired a PI.
> 
> Don't tell your friends or her until you figured out who the OM is(if it's a different one), his significant other and the extent of their relationship(EA,PA or just close friendship).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I really want to play the VAR for her w/ me standing right by her. Why is this a bad idea? She thinks she has me fooled and I am tired of being fooled. I dont care if she knows, this is the last straw and the end as far as I am concerned.

I am 99% sure who the OM is. It is the man she left for me in the 1st place. The one she lied to me saying they werent serious and she never saw it going anywhere. 

It is the same guy she talked w/ for over 15 hours over a 3 month span only 6 months after our wedding. I have all of those phone records printed out and planned on presenting them again while playing the VAR. 

She also had 100's of inappropriate texts to him I found a little over a year after the 1st discovery. I was stupid and unprepared for those and did not think to forward them to my phone so I have no record of them, now. But she knows very well that I have seen their content and she admitted they were inappropriate when I confronted her. We never discussed them and it was swept under the rug just like every other difficult topic that comes our way.

I am sure the Text records will validate that it the same guy also. But I dont want to wait for them. Also, I will meet w/ a mutual friend of the OM and I. He has already said he knows some details that I should be aware of. That is all he said on the IM, but I will find out the details soon.

So now I dont want any doubt. She has had this guy on the side for 3 years and I am sick of it! I want her to have to sit and listen to her other personality. The one who has no boundries, no respect for anyting! She needs to be forced to take responsibility for her actions for the 1st time in her life!


----------



## Chaparral

You need to track down who the OM is with 100% certainty. You are going to get a fistful of excuses and explantaitons. Maybe enough to have you questioning yourself. Make sure all your evidence is ironclad so she can't gaslight you and have everyone convinced you just want to dump her.


----------



## TexasCat10

chapparal said:


> You need to track down who the OM is with 100% certainty. You are going to get a fistful of excuses and explantaitons. Maybe enough to have you questioning yourself. Make sure all your evidence is ironclad so she can't gaslight you and have everyone convinced you just want to dump her.



Ok, so then yesterday I found an old pic of them hugging (I have seen the same pic on her PC before) in her phone pics. She downloaded it in July of this year Is that enough?

I took a pic of it w/ my phone as additional proof. If I am careful and do not spill the beans too early I will imagine it will still be on her phone when I plan to confront her in 2 weeks.


----------



## turnera

Personally, I think you need to drop the whole damn thing and just plan your escape. She is beneath you and not worthy of taking up space in your head. Just move on. No confrontation, no proof, just leave, and tell everyone (inlcuding her family) why you're leaving on the day you leave.


----------



## aug

Sometimes the most satisfying way to leave is to keep it simple. 
Expose to everyone first to prevent her spinning the story. Then to her just say "I know you havent stop, so as I told you the last time, I'm leaving you now."

Then leave and go dark on her. Do not reveal your sources. You may need to during the divorce, but that's a while away.


----------



## Caribbean Man

turnera said:


> Personally,* I think you need to drop the whole damn thing and just plan your escape. She is beneath you and not worthy of taking up space in your head.* Just move on. No confrontation, no proof, just leave, and tell everyone (inlcuding her family) why you're leaving on the day you leave.


I said the exact same thing since page 2 of this thread.

I have been with women like that already , and in their minds they cannot differentiate reality from their twisted perception of reality.
Their world is one of " existential reality ", where if they can't see it,then it is not happening, and you cannot convince them otherwise.

You cannot fight a woman like that, she is an emotional vortex, she will drain you emotionally, then still go behind his back and cheat.
She cannot help herself.


----------



## Remains

aug said:


> Sometimes the most satisfying way to leave is to keep it simple.
> Expose to everyone first to prevent her spinning the story. Then to her just say "I know you havent stop, so as I told you the last time, I'm leaving you now."
> 
> Then leave and go dark on her. Do not reveal your sources. You may need to during the divorce, but that's a while away.


Definitely do this! And not your idea Texas. I am like u, I want to throw it at them, make them face it, tell them what I am doing. Make them change. It does not work. Don't get sucked in! INFORMATION IS POWER. 

If you tell her all u have and how you got it, you think she will throw herself at your mercy and say sorry and how awful she has been? Maybe she will - but it sounds like he is ignoring her? Has he found out she is lying to him too (you had a mutual.friend and he is sick of her stringing you both along) and has dumped her? There4 she may well cry and beg. But only because she will have lost both men. She won't be genuine if she shows remorse, you know it, and when you leave her she has all the information she can twist and manipulate to her hearts content. How horrified will she be, and others when she tells them, that you had Var in her car and secretly recorded her. People won't know why, she won't tell them. This is not an acceptable every day kind of thing (it is on Tam, but not out there in the real world) People will just think you are weird and a paranoid freak. People don't understand the situation and are not clued up. 

Not giving her all will hurt her more. And you regain some power back in your relationship.


----------



## keko

TexasCat10 said:


> Ok, so then yesterday I found an old pic of them hugging (I have seen the same pic on her PC before) in her phone pics. She downloaded it in July of this year Is that enough?
> 
> I took a pic of it w/ my phone as additional proof. If I am careful and do not spill the beans too early I will imagine it will still be on her phone when I plan to confront her in 2 weeks.


Is the picture recent? Location?

Was it taken before your last confrontation?


----------



## Shaggy

She knows she's still at it. She made her choice knowing the cost: you.

So instead of a lot of words and confrontation which she is prepared for from before and ready with more lies, the most effective thing here is to remove you immediately from the situation.

Instead of a long presentation of evidence. I would simply tell her or hand her a note as you walk out the foot "I know youve been lying to me and that you are not bring faithful. I've got facts and proof, and I told you what would happen if you went there. I'm out if here. I'll be in touch later about starting the D process. I'll leave now so you can make your call to the guy you really want to be with. He can listen to the garbage that's going to coming out of your mouth."


----------



## Shooboomafoo

Yep. Agree with the posters re: simple. None of your evidence is going to "do" anything. Its more for your own knowledge, than hers. Here in TX, your evidence means nothing unless you plan on using it in court, and if so HIRE a lawyer for that.

My ex had an answer for everything. Even if it was a bold, black lie in the face of an image of her mid-copulation, she would deny it.

The more that you expect to happen from your evidence, the more you will be disappointed that it had no affect at all. You will be surprised at the level of "Dont give a fk" she will have.


----------



## Shooboomafoo

Oh, and one more thing, KEEP that VAR on your when/if you confront!!! Things can get nasty quick.


----------



## TexasCat10

Remains said:


> Definitely do this! And not your idea Texas. I am like u, I want to throw it at them, make them face it, tell them what I am doing. Make them change. It does not work. Don't get sucked in! INFORMATION IS POWER.
> 
> If you tell her all u have and how you got it, you think she will throw herself at your mercy and say sorry and how awful she has been? Maybe she will - but it sounds like he is ignoring her? Has he found out she is lying to him too (you had a mutual.friend and he is sick of her stringing you both along) and has dumped her? There4 she may well cry and beg. But only because she will have lost both men. She won't be genuine if she shows remorse, you know it, and when you leave her she has all the information she can twist and manipulate to her hearts content. How horrified will she be, and others when she tells them, that you had Var in her car and secretly recorded her. People won't know why, she won't tell them. This is not an acceptable every day kind of thing (it is on Tam, but not out there in the real world) People will just think you are weird and a paranoid freak. People don't understand the situation and are not clued up.
> 
> Not giving her all will hurt her more. And you regain some power back in your relationship.


After much consideration and talking w/ my best friend I referred to earlier I have decided to follow this advice. I really wanted to make her face her 3rd time being caught by making her listen, but everyone on here has been so right so far, I cannot go agaist this advice. I will be asking her 1 simple question "Have you been in touch w/ OM?". 

Either answer will have me walking out the door!

As for the mutual friend of the OM and me, he is tired of my wife playing both of us. I think he has tried to get the OM to stop contacting her but he cant help himself. I dont think the VAR conversation said he was cutting off communication at all just that he didnt respond fast enough as she would have liked him to. He did not "dump" her.

Also, I know what you mean about me using the VAR and looking crazy to outsiders of TAM but I just laid the 2 items of proof I have (Old Ph Records & VAR) to my best friend as well as explaining the time I caught her w/ all the texts 1 year ago. But I explained to him 1st that what I am about to tell him may make me look crazy, but please understand that my wife has driven me to this. He undertood and was totally shocked at the Phone Records I showed him from 2 years ago, as well as letting him listen to the VAR. He could not believe what he heard. He and my wife are actually pretty good friends and all he could say was "Wow!"

I have decided to not let her hear the VAR, but my 3 closest friends and maybe even my parents will hear it if they cant take my word for it and need to hear for themselves. Either way I am letting ebveryone know about all 3 times over the last 3 years. The entire length of our marriage!


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## TexasCat10

keko said:


> Is the picture recent? Location?
> 
> Was it taken before your last confrontation?


The picture is old. It was taken long before I was even in the picture. I think she downloaded it to remember how they once were. The reason she said she ended it w/ him when she had a chance w/ me was bc he was so mean and abusive to her. But I'd imagine there were some great times, this pic may have been one of them.


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## TexasCat10

Shooboomafoo said:


> Oh, and one more thing, KEEP that VAR on your when/if you confront!!! Things can get nasty quick.


Will do, and I have backups of my backups just in case!


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## turnera

TexasCat10 said:


> I have decided to not let her hear the VAR, but *HER* 3 closest friends and maybe even *HER* parents will hear it if they cant take my word for it and need to hear for themselves. Either way I am letting ebveryone know about all 3 times over the last 3 years. The entire length of our marriage!


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## keko

You could have the divorce papers ready and hand it over to her when you confront.


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## TRy

TexasCat10 said:


> I have decided to not let her hear the VAR, but my 3 closest friends and maybe even my parents will hear it if they cant take my word for it and need to hear for themselves. Either way I am letting ebveryone know about all 3 times over the last 3 years. The entire length of our marriage!


 Do not let anyone hear anything or even tell them that they exist. If you do, your soon to be x will find out and make you look bad to everyone. The more people that know the more likely that someone will spill the beans. Right now you have the moral high ground. Do not give it away so easily.

Just tell your wife that you know what you know with 100% confidence and that you do not think that it is prudent to reveal your sources. Tell her that you do not need her agreement or permission for you to acknowledge the truth, and to act on it accordingly. Tell your wife that her denying to your face what you know to be true, confirms further just how deceitful and dishonest she has been with you and only deepens your resolve. Tell her if she has at any shred of decency she would at least admit to what you all ready know to be true, but that you are not holding your breath for that to happen. After she either admits or denies, tell her the consequences of her actions are that you are moving on.


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## OldWolf57

She leaves a lot to be desired as a wife, 
she is a cake eating lier, 
she is a lying cheat that did fat boy in your house.

KIS, keep it simple. I know, we done.
Don't waste your time going over nothing. PPL that matter that know you, will know it had to be big. All others, who gives a F
This is your life, simply say she cheated, I left.
if you are going to go thru all the talking, you might as well ask for her work phone an password after you get the txt records.

The way I see it, with all the stress you are going thru now, just walk for your sanity and health sake.
Your biz is yours, you pay your own bills, so don't ever worry about ppl outside your marriage. You have close friends and they are the only ones to worry about. So let her spin it anyway she wants.


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## Chaparral

OldWolf57 said:


> She leaves a lot to be desired as a wife,
> she is a cake eating lier,
> she is a lying cheat that did fat boy in your house.
> 
> KIS, keep it simple. I know, we done.
> Don't waste your time going over nothing. PPL that matter that know you, will know it had to be big. All others, who gives a F
> This is your life, simply say she cheated, I left.
> if you are going to go thru all the talking, you might as well ask for her work phone an password after you get the txt records.
> 
> The way I see it, with all the stress you are going thru now, just walk for your sanity and health sake.
> Your biz is yours, you pay your own bills, so don't ever worry about ppl outside your marriage. You have close friends and they are the only ones to worry about. So let her spin it anyway she wants.


That depends on what size community you live in. For example,
in my county, you had better get the word out quick because everyone you know is going to hear about it. And they never forget.


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## Shaggy

Update?


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## OldWolf57

I hear you Chap. we lived in a farming town of 16,000 from 13 to until I left grown.


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## justincase

Be careful with the recordings. Here in Texas, you can record phone conversations to which you are a party, but not otherwise. I'm not sure how it applies outside the context of the phone. If she decides to get nasty, this could bite you. Contact an attorney.


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## Mr. Self Destruct

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr. Self Destruct

Does AT&T let you request text message records?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy

Don't worry about the recording, its for you own protection.

When confronting your wayward, never reveal your source.

In most states adultory doesn't matter, so either does the matter in which find the proof. 

2 reasons to have VAR;

1) to gather eveidence so you have confirmation that you are divorcing for the right reason and it prevents you from second guessing this dicision

2) prevent be accused or flasely accused when your cheating spouse wants you to leave and you refuse. Basicly protects you from false accusations.


There one more reason, some time you can get a confession from the wayward and whenit come to damamge control the wayward will often retrack the fact they are cheating and are leaving the marriage cuz the betrayed is the bad guy.


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## justincase

Listen to the guy. My point was not to confront her with the recording, especially without understanding the legal implications. Personally, I would keep her in the dark. Let her second-guess herself.


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## justincase

Also, after you confront, record EVERY conversation with her, even on the phone. I have recordings of my XW threatening to take our child and burn down the house..


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## Sbrown

Is it legal to record someone in TX without their consent? I'd contact an attorney before making ANY moves.


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## turnera

In Texas, it's legal to record any conversation in which YOU are a participant.


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## zsu234

Just record the damn convo! What is going to happen, you get thrown in jail?


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## justincase

I'm not saying do not record. I'm saying not to let her know you made a recording of her WHILE YOU WERE NOT PRESENT without consulting an attorney.


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## keko

justincase said:


> I'm not saying do not record. I'm saying not to let her know you made a recording of her WHILE YOU WERE NOT PRESENT without consulting an attorney.


Hopefully no living soul would be that stupid.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

Not for nothing but can one be so naive that they would actually ask the question is she cheating in the thread title? I know you love her but common sense needs to prevail here. She seems like she's willing to give time to any guy that pay some attention to her.


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## justincase

keko:
Hopefully, but that is exactly what he indicated that he would do.


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## jeff_r

curious about what happened


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