# Wife doesnt care for sex



## secretcan2 (Nov 18, 2020)

Ours was a typical indian wedding, arranged and no premarital sex. We have been married over 10 years, my wife loves me and I love her.

The only problem I have is that we hardly have sex. Even at the beginning of our marriage, we hardly ever had sex. Maybe once a week. And it quickly fell of the cliff. Within a year, it went from once a week to once a month. These days, it is more like once every 4 months. And that is if I am lucky. She never initiates it.

I brought her sex toys, lingerie, talked to her about my issues with her non-interest. NOTHING. NADA.

It's not like we don't flirt with each other or touch each other, we do. It just doesn't get to the sex. She dresses conservatively, doesn't care for the lingerie, toys or anything I brought for her.

These days, I am mostly relegated to porn and my hand. I forgot how it is to even ask for sex or receive it. My wife never initiates it and when I bring up that topic, usually just fights and leaves the room. She has NEVER used birth control and we never got pregnant. Not because we tried and failed, because we hardly ever have sex at all.

I am getting tired of this but I dont want to leave her. I tried getting fit (Like really washboard abs fit, she did not lay a finger on me). My wife says her conservative upbringing ruined sex for her.

I was away from her for 4 months, and when we met again, she didn't even mention it. I had to ask for it, we did it once. and then nothing for months. 

I have never seen her watch porn or talk about sex. Never seen her being interested in sex. She reads a lot of books. I tried getting her into erotica, which ended in a huge fight.

How do I fix this? I am getting desperate and it's not like I don't have avenues to cheat. I just choose not to.

I am currently running an experiment, how long can we go without her asking for sex. Its been six months so far and she hasn't really asked.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

secretcan2 said:


> Ours was a typical indian wedding, arranged and no premarital sex. We have been married over 10 years, my wife loves me and I love her.
> 
> The only problem I have is that we hardly have sex. Even at the beginning of our marriage, we hardly ever had sex. Maybe once a week. And it quickly fell of the cliff. Within a year, it went from once a week to once a month. These days, it is more like once every 4 months. And that is if I am lucky. She never initiates it.
> 
> ...


Welcome to the club. Unfortunately, you only have two choices. 

1. Live with it as she is not going to change
2 Leave

Sorry to be so blunt but thats what many of us are facing

Best of luck


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

So your wife says her conservative upbringing ruined sex for her, has she ever wanted to do anything about that? Or is it just an excuse? She could get into therapy to work on whatever childhood issues she has, but of course, you cannot force her to go. 

Similar to what the above poster said your choices really are to accept this will never change, or divorce. I'd add that the later can include an ultimatum but you have to be prepared to follow through. 

Do you want kids?


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

secretcan2 said:


> Ours was a typical indian wedding, arranged and no premarital sex. We have been married over 10 years, my wife loves me and I love her.
> 
> The only problem I have is that we hardly have sex. Even at the beginning of our marriage, we hardly ever had sex. Maybe once a week. And it quickly fell of the cliff. Within a year, it went from once a week to once a month. These days, it is more like once every 4 months. And that is if I am lucky. She never initiates it.
> 
> ...


This is where an open marriage might well help, although you will get plenty here who do not agree. Mind you, you have to be willing and open (no puns intended) to the idea as well. In effect, she was not your decision and as such you did not get to chose someone who was compatible with you in all ways, or at least in enough way to be satisfied. You have grown to love her, and she you, but love is not enough to base a marriage on. A factor to be sure, just not the only factor.

The question you have to ask yourself, is are you needing sex for the need of sex, or are you looking for lovemaking with her specifically? If the latter, then open marriage won't help, save as a stress relief valve maybe. And keep in mind that an open marriage is not cheating, because it happens with the consent of both (or more if poly) within the marriage. So this will be as much on her as it is you.

When you initiate, does she often tell you no? Or does she just lay there and basically become a sex doll? She may be asexual, with no drive. Or she could have medical issues. From what you say, good luck on getting her to a doctor to see if that is the case. Although you could point out that conditions that lower a sex drive can also have other harmful affects, so you are more worried about them and the increased sex drive would just be icing on the cake.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

@secretcan2 Perhaps she needs a third party to explain how dangerous a (nearly) sexless marriage is? Do a google for "Ted Talk Sex starved marriage" on youtube. Watch it yourself first, then with your wife. If she can watch that without emotion, without fear, and just move on from it, then you'll know you just need to get out.

In a sense, it's not her holding you back from something; it's you holding her back. She may have some bizarre sense of higher purpose and sexuality gets in the way of it. There's also a good chance there's some trauma or fear involved. Who knows. But you have no kids, and you've given up talking with her by substituting porn. All signs point to an exit, for both your sake. But give her one chance, watch that video, and see how she responds.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

maquiscat said:


> This is where an open marriage might well help, although you will get plenty here who do not agree. Mind you, you have to be willing and open (no puns intended) to the idea as well. In effect, she was not your decision and as such you did not get to chose someone who was compatible with you in all ways, or at least in enough way to be satisfied. You have grown to love her, and she you, but love is not enough to base a marriage on. A factor to be sure, just not the only factor.
> 
> The question you have to ask yourself, is are you needing sex for the need of sex, or are you looking for lovemaking with her specifically? If the latter, then open marriage won't help, save as a stress relief valve maybe. And keep in mind that an open marriage is not cheating, because it happens with the consent of both (or more if poly) within the marriage. So this will be as much on her as it is you.
> 
> When you initiate, does she often tell you no? Or does she just lay there and basically become a sex doll? She may be asexual, with no drive. Or she could have medical issues. From what you say, good luck on getting her to a doctor to see if that is the case. Although you could point out that conditions that lower a sex drive can also have other harmful affects, so you are more worried about them and the increased sex drive would just be icing on the cake.


I think an open marriage would help many couples who are facing mismatched libidos but I would venture to say its not a very commonly used resolution due to the low sex drive partner not going for it at all. I have ONE friend whose wife has medical issues and after 50 years together she set him up with one of her friends and it works for them. But out of all the people I know, thats the ONLY one.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Casual Observer said:


> @secretcan2 Perhaps she needs a third party to explain how dangerous a (nearly) sexless marriage is? Do a google for "Ted Talk Sex starved marriage" on youtube. Watch it yourself first, then with your wife. If she can watch that without emotion, without fear, and just move on from it, then you'll know you just need to get out.
> 
> In a sense, it's not her holding you back from something; it's you holding her back. She may have some bizarre sense of higher purpose and sexuality gets in the way of it. There's also a good chance there's some trauma or fear involved. Who knows. But you have no kids, and you've given up talking with her by substituting porn. All signs point to an exit, for both your sake. But give her one chance, watch that video, and see how she responds.


I like the suggestion but most people who are low sex or sexless just don't get it until its too late. My wife for example. She knows how much I would like to have sex but never sees NOT having it as a negative. And if I would go and get it elsewhere, then of course thats 100% all my fault for doing so. Which of course leads to your idea of just getting out which I will likely do at some point.

Hopefully the OP will move faster than I have.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I like the suggestion but most people who are low sex or sexless just don't get it until its too late. My wife for example. She knows how much I would like to have sex but never sees NOT having it as a negative. And if I would go and get it elsewhere, then of course thats 100% all my fault for doing so. Which of course leads to your idea of just getting out which I will likely do at some point.
> 
> Hopefully the OP will move faster than I have.


Have you watched the video I referenced? If your wife watched it, she would see exactly how her low priority to sex (putting it very kindly) plays out. She'd be hearing it from a respected 3rd party. From a woman. A woman who's specialty is trying to patch things up after infidelity.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

If there was a magic potion to fix sexual mismatch, the people in this forum would know about it. So far, I haven't seen it. I don't think you have a lot of options here beyond deciding if you can live with it or deciding that you have to leave over it. 

The only thing you will want to do is to make sure that you are actually being the best sexual partner you can be for your wife. At least have the conversation about whether or not her disinterest is rooted in a genuine disinterest of sex or just a disinterest in sex with you - because you do have some control of what kind of partner you become.

But this is really just checking off all of the boxes in the exit interview, because unless I'm really mistaken, this almost never ends with all parties involved satisfied.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I think an open marriage would help many couples who are facing mismatched libidos but I would venture to say its not a very commonly used resolution due to the low sex drive partner not going for it at all. I have ONE friend whose wife has medical issues and after 50 years together she set him up with one of her friends and it works for them. But out of all the people I know, thats the ONLY one.


I can understand that. Being part of the overall community that includes, open, poly, BDSM and LBGT, I am in a position to observe such situations even more than one who is not connected with these communities. And I have seen the negatives as well as the positives. Which is why I noted why such a solution might not be for them as well. But better to know of an option and choose to not use it, than not hear of it when it could have solved the problem.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

A few things :
1. Ask her to go to marriage counseling and/or a sex therapist to work on this.
2. Does SHE masturbate? If not, she could try (with your help) to see what gets her going. WATCH her bodies reactions to various stimuli -- catalog that in your head so that you please HER the way she needs it. IF she doesn't even let you "experiment" with her to find that out, then she really should see a counselor.

Face it, if you are both healthy, and not having sex, it's more of a friendship or business partnership,isn't it? It's not really a marriage and she should understand that.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

maquiscat said:


> I can understand that. Being part of the overall community that includes, open, poly, BDSM and LBGT, I am in a position to observe such situations even more than one who is not connected with these communities. And I have seen the negatives as well as the positives. Which is why I noted why such a solution might not be for them as well. But better to know of an option and choose to not use it, than not hear of it when it could have solved the problem.


I think the mere existence of such a solution, whether practical or not, helps to frame the conversation and put things in their place. There tends to be an assumption, by either party, that this is the way it is, there are no options. But there are. And recognizing that might create incentive to take action.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Casual Observer said:


> Have you watched the video I referenced? If your wife watched it, she would see exactly how her low priority to sex (putting it very kindly) plays out. She'd be hearing it from a respected 3rd party. From a woman. A woman who's specialty is trying to patch things up after infidelity.


I have and its good. However my wife would be offended I even suggested it and then it would go back to how I disrespect her (see my The Talk post) about not doing other things for her like cleaning the garage and "all you think about is sex" and...well you get the idea. But thanks for the suggestion.


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## pplwatching (Jun 15, 2012)

secretcan2 said:


> I forgot how it is to even ask for sex or receive it. My wife never initiates it and when I bring up that topic, usually just fights and leaves the room.


Are you saying that neither of you initiates sex? If that's the case, then you'll never have sex. 

How frequently would you say that you try to initiate sex before moving on to porn? Do you just assume that she's not interested and then get mad at her based on that assumption, or do you try to initiate first?

If you're saying that you never have sex because you're waiting for her to "be receptive", then as someone who's been through the "no sex" routine in my own marriage, I will say that the brain is the biggest sex organ. And, it's a very complicated one. If your wife is a "responsive desire" kind of gal, meaning that she responds to sexual advances and attention but doesn't have an internal drive to think about sex or initiate, then she's going to feel attacked when you tell her that "you never initiate" because to her that's normal and (from her perspective) who she "is". If so, then initiating sex is going to fall on your shoulders. It did in my marriage. It doesn't matter if you'd like her to initiate, it will almost never happen and expecting anything else is going to disappoint you. Fair or unfair, that's the way it played out in my marriage.

To make matters more complicated, my wife isn't turned on at all by subtle hints, innuendos, or being asked for sex. In fact, that's a turn off. She responds to overt sexual initiation to get the ball rolling. Any form of hinting or pussyfooting is a turn off and a dead end.

The way that I learned that about her was by talking to her. Fortunately, she understood that sex is an important part of marriage even if she didn't understand how to be "self motivated" or fix the problem. We went to marriage counselling and eventually came to an agreement that no matter how big the mountain was, we needed to work on it or face the consequences together or apart.

We created opportunities for sex, but scheduling sex wasn't much help. We just agreed that if I, as the one who was Jonesing, overtly initiate sex then she will create the opportunity for sex. Maybe right in the heat of the moment or maybe a little later if it's not a good time, but she knows the ball is in her court - and I'll remind her. She knows sex is important but is "wired" to need that reminder and stimulus.

So, my suggestion is first simply get her to agree (or disagree) that sex is an important part of any marriage when at least one partner wants it. My wife needed to understand that sex was important to me for intimacy and connection, and therefore it needed to be important to her. Fortunately, she agreed and we were able to start trail and error to figure out how to make it work.

If your wife doesn't understand why it's import, then ask her to accept that it is important to you and work towards a solution together. If she is unwilling to do that, and you're doing what you can to work with her, then you'll have a better of idea of what your options really are.

Lastly, I will say that toys, lingere, etc are all just reminders to her that you're not happy that she doesn't want sex. They're not "for her". They're "for you" and intended to get her to respond sexually in the way that you want. Stop doing that and start talking about how she feels and learn to work with who she is, if she'll let you.

At some point I kind of got over what was "fair" or "right" and focused on what I needed to do to get her to respond sexually. Fortunately, it worked - because she was willing to help me learn. I hope that your wife is the same.

Best


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

You'd probably be doing both of you a favor if you just divorced. I mean, it was an arranged marriage, so she simply doesn't feel that way about you because you were foisted on her. I think neither of you have a chance to really find love unless you divorce. I know that just having sex would be fine with you, but most women are not like that. They need to have the feelings. You're still without kids and still relatively young. Why not start anew and cut each other loose? She likely feels she can't leave without making her relatives mad, but I bet you can do it if you want.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I have and its good. However my wife would be offended I even suggested it and then it would go back to how I disrespect her (see my The Talk post) about not doing other things for her like cleaning the garage and "all you think about is sex" and...well you get the idea. But thanks for the suggestion.


It surprises me that you don't think it would be a good idea for view that video. If it causes grief, then you've got something you have to deal with. Stop avoiding it. Stop having her part of the conversation already played out in your head. That's exactly where she wants you to be. 

As for "all you think about is sex" well... yeah, when sex doesn't exist, that's what you think about. When sex is normal, it's not such a huge deal. But f-that. I mean seriously, what is WRONG with sex being a few times a week AND something you look forward to? You can think about sex, in a positive manner, without actually having sex right then and there.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

DownByTheRiver said:


> *You'd probably be doing both of you a favor if you just divorced. * I mean, it was an arranged marriage, so she simply doesn't feel that way about you because you were foisted on her. I think neither of you have a chance to really find love unless you divorce. I know that just having sex would be fine with you, but most women are not like that. They need to have the feelings. You're still without kids and still relatively young. Why not start anew and cut each other loose? She likely feels she can't leave without making her relatives mad, but I bet you can do it if you want.


That IS the alternative. It's fair to her to bring that up, rather than have her be thinking, for the rest of her life, about how your happiness in the relationship is dependent upon something she's unable to provide.

But I don't see divorce as a foregone conclusion. There are steps to take first, but those steps take on much more meaning when it's clear that divorce is an option. Not the preferred option, but definitely an option.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Well, it's 10 years, so things are probably pretty set in stone by now. 10 miserable years.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Well, it's 10 years, so things are probably pretty set in stone by now. 10 miserable years.


Sometimes you can compartmentalize misery and you end up dealing with what you can deal with. I think that's where things are now, for both of them. There's a lot of momentum for everything staying the same. Somebody needs to do something desperate and break the chain.

Look, I've had one hell of a lot of "miserable years" in my marriage, if sex was the defining issue in our relationship and my view of the world. I was about to break free several times, but momentum and care got in the way. You can truly love someone even though they're really messed up and willing to care far more about themselves than you. And I'm still in that same marriage, but finally with some hope that things can become permanently better. I'm overcoming 40+ years of momentum. It's hard for her. Imagine how much easier it would be for a wife of "just" 10 years, with no kids. Easier to either change or come to terms with her difficulties and move on.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Time for them to do it before he decides he must have sex and they have a child. It's an arranged marriage. There was nothing between them to begin with. They're had 10 years to "grow together," and it's not happened. 

Sorry you've been through such a trial, Casual Observer.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Time for them to do it before he decides he must have sex and they have a child. It's an arranged marriage. There was nothing between them to begin with. They're had 10 years to "grow together," and it's not happened.
> 
> Sorry you've been through such a trial, Casual Observer.


This is not about me. I've got plenty of threads about me. But I think I have a perspective to offer that might be different than many. And that perspective allows me to look at something like this guy is going through and think, what the hell is wrong with you man? You've got no real anchor to speak of here. You're letting porn serve not so much as a surrogate but as a way of avoiding dealing with the main problem. Fix it or GET OUT! Don't become like me for even less reason than I have to be me.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Casual Observer said:


> It surprises me that you don't think it would be a good idea for view that video. If it causes grief, then you've got something you have to deal with. Stop avoiding it. Stop having her part of the conversation already played out in your head. That's exactly where she wants you to be.
> 
> As for "all you think about is sex" well... yeah, when sex doesn't exist, that's what you think about. When sex is normal, it's not such a huge deal. But f-that. I mean seriously, what is WRONG with sex being a few times a week AND something you look forward to? You can think about sex, in a positive manner, without actually having sex right then and there.


All I can say is I wish my wife viewed it the way you do even though I know you are a guy. I guess you haven't observed the distain from sex in your wife like I see in mine? You are lucky! After all these years I am done trying...I am on my way out.

Edit to add, I bought the book "Sex Starved Marriage" to read on my own and she got pissed that I was reading it. So I think that tells alot.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> All I can say is I wish my wife viewed it the way you do even though I know you are a guy. I guess you haven't observed the distain from sex in your wife like I see in mine? You are lucky! After all these years I am done trying...I am on my way out.
> 
> Edit to add, I bought the book "Sex Starved Marriage" to read on my own and she got pissed that I was reading it. So I think that tells alot.


You're trying to figure things out and make things better. What is SHE doing. And if you read any of my threads, you might not think I'm so lucky.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Casual Observer said:


> You're trying to figure things out and make things better. What is SHE doing. And if you read any of my threads, you might not think I'm so lucky.


She isn't doing a damn thing. Just sits around and reads all day. Lost her job a few years ago and isn't even trying to find another one. Not interested in working. Not interested in sex. Just enjoying not doing anything. After many years, I have had enough hence my plan to start finding a way out.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> She isn't doing a damn thing. Just sits around and reads all day. Lost her job a few years ago and isn't even trying to find another one. Not interested in working. Not interested in sex. Just enjoying not doing anything. After many years, I have had enough hence my plan to start finding a way out.


Let her find her own way out. Don't let her take you with her. Be the best person you can be, and expect that of others as well.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Well, it's 10 years, so things are probably pretty set in stone by now. 10 miserable years.


When I read stories like this I am reminded of the play by Jean-Paul Sartre, No Exit. In essence we all make our own hell. 

Some make their life a living hell because they are afraid, some because they feel they deserve it, some because they know they will be found out. 

When I worked to fix my sex starved marriage, I was told that counseling of 1 month for each year of problems was a typical amount of time required to correct long term trends.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Young at Heart said:


> When I worked to fix my sex starved marriage, I was told that counseling of 1 month for each year of problems was a typical amount of time required to correct long term trends.


There is no way I can "like" that. It means...43 months of counseling. And it just could be right. It might not matter though. Could be that, when younger, you wouldn't have so much invested (OK, sunk costs) that you'd tolerate much time in counseling. As you get older, you may have more resources, you may be a bit wiser, and you may feel there's more at stake.

Either way I don't "like" your message. 

On reflection, I think the greatest issues may arise when one party has all the "data" to show the problems they've caused through withdrawal of intimacy, yet somehow put on a happy face and truly believe they have a happy marriage. I don't know how people do that.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

People do what they want to do and don’t do what they don’t want to.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

So what are your wife’s redeeming qualities?
She gives you no sex.
She’s angry of you bring up sex.
She doesn’t work.
She sits around reading.

Exactly why would you possibly think that you couldn’t be happier with a woman that begged you to screw her, worked and contributed to the household, and enjoyed doing other fun things with you?

This seems like a nobrainer to me.
Divorce and get happy.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

I am a labor and delivery nurse and I have worked with MANY patients from your culture. You are battling something SO ingrained in her from birth that I'm not sure you'll be able to overcome it. I've done exams on patients who scream as if I was using a double edged saber instead of my 2 fingers. I asked a patient what it's like when she has sex with her husband if this exam is so painful? She started to cry and said that in 7 years of marriage they'd had sex twice, in order to conceive, and both times she screamed bloody murder through the entire thing. I'm impressed her husband managed to finish.

These woman have such a distorted sense of their bodies. They are taught to be ashamed of themselves and to squelch any sexual thoughts they might have so that they will remain pure for their husband. What a backfire I'd say. I'm guessing most of these young men would rather their wife had been with someone else if it meant they'd have a healthy sexual appetite.

I think your best recourse is sexual therapy for her. Will she go? Don't know...probably will be very resistant unless you tell her the marriage is on the line. 

Good luck.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

notmyjamie said:


> I am a labor and delivery nurse and I have worked with MANY patients from your culture. You are battling something SO ingrained in her from birth that I'm not sure you'll be able to overcome it. I've done exams on patients who scream as if I was using a double edged saber instead of my 2 fingers. I asked a patient what it's like when she has sex with her husband if this exam is so painful? She started to cry and said that in 7 years of marriage they'd had sex twice, in order to conceive, and both times she screamed bloody murder through the entire thing. I'm impressed her husband managed to finish.
> 
> These woman have such a distorted sense of their bodies. They are taught to be ashamed of themselves and to squelch any sexual thoughts they might have so that they will remain pure for their husband. What a backfire I'd say. I'm guessing most of these young men would rather their wife had been with someone else if it meant they'd have a healthy sexual appetite.
> 
> ...





oldshirt said:


> People do what they want to do and don’t do what they don’t want to.


And there's the problem. His wife doesn't see a reason to change. She's OK the way she is, the way things are. I get that. You're having to tell someone that who they are isn't OK. That seems wrong in so many ways... remember the whole "I'm OK, you're OK" thing? Affirmation that you're not a bad person is a big thing in therapy. Can you get there from here? Asking for a friend.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Hey FG:


FloridaGuy1 said:


> She isn't doing a damn thing. Just sits around and reads all day. Lost her job a few years ago and isn't even trying to find another one. Not interested in working. Not interested in sex. Just enjoying not doing anything. After many years, I have had enough hence my plan to start finding a way out.


This actually sounds like she is clinically depressed (not just "sad" or bummed out). You may want to get her to a Dr.....


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Casual Observer said:


> There is no way I can "like" that. It means...43 months of counseling. And it just could be right. It might not matter though. Could be that, when younger, you wouldn't have so much invested (OK, sunk costs) that you'd tolerate much time in counseling. As you get older, you may have more resources, you may be a bit wiser, and you may feel there's more at stake.
> 
> Either way I don't "like" your message.
> 
> On reflection, I think the greatest issues may arise when one party has all the "data" to show the problems they've caused through withdrawal of intimacy, yet somehow put on a happy face and truly believe they have a happy marriage. I don't know how people do that.


The reason for my sharing the 1 month for each year of problems was not to make anyone feel things are hopeless, but to provide two thoughts: (1) marriage counseling (if it works, which it may not) is not a silver bullet that takes virtually no time at all to solve a serious problem, and (2) the longer one procrastinates on solving a problem will make the fix that much longer.

Yes, not the kind of thing anyone would want to hear.


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## pplwatching (Jun 15, 2012)

This thread seems to have been successfully derailed.


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