# Part 1... An introduction to THE PLAN



## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

*PART 1…An Introduction to THE PLAN.*

My personal gift to all of TAM.

We are all here because we are/were unfulfilled in our own marriages. Some will LOUDLY say that is not the case but in reality you are just hiding behind a mask you created to perfection that started in childhood. We all are. This is the story of how to recognize that fact and to come up with a plan to finally “Grow-up together” with your spouse. A sexless marriage is the sum of hiding behind the masks in order to be truly intimate both partners need to understand themselves and be aware of the destructive darker parts of themselves. If it isn’t sex ,its money if it isn’t money, it’s the kids it’s a power struggle over toys in a sandbox…. between two emotionally immature adults. You and your spouse.

Before I get into the plan I want to recognize two resources that I did not hear about here much but stumbled across in my journey the first helped me crystalize what I thought was an original plan…. Those are the teachings of “Calle Zorro” which got me thinking about the journey… taking the long term view. This was a critical resource for me to come up with the initial plan. Another I just read was simply amazing probably the best resource of all… “ Dancing in the Dark… the shadow side of intimate relationships.” Both of these resources are awesome. Like my plan these resources get you thinking about you and your part in this. For those who followed my story you understand this a core component of my plan. All the plan is in reality is correcting the dynamics… or growing emotionally up together. Its tough and it requires both partners to do something they don’t want to do… admit they are emotionally underdeveloped internally to themselves. We seek our hidden dark side and marry it… that causes dissatisfaction over time. I learned the labels in the latest book… MOTHER, FATHER, SON, and DAUGHTER. This is great as is give you a visual of your own relationship with your spouse. It’s all about power and about changes over time and the dissatisfaction that sets in.

*Marriage 101…. The Sandbox of a Marriage. My view.*

In all marriages we can view them as two kids playing in a sandbox… initially you play nice with all the toys. As time goes on you start to fight over three toys to varying degrees. The toys are a pail and shovel (SEX/Emotional Intimacy), a toy fire truck (MONEY) and a see-saw (CHILDREN). Most all troubled marriages can be seen as fighting over one or more of these toys. In my case now it was the pail and the shovel… earlier around ILYNILWY it was both the see-saw and the pail and shovel. It was/is a power struggle. We both tend play evenly with the toy fire truck and see-saw now. We are learning to share the pail and the shovel now.

Some “kids” decide to permanently leave the sandbox (Cheat/divorce/check out) and each of the Ex’s either decide not to play again in the sandbox OR find a new partner to play with. In variably they ensure the toy that was contested in their previous marriage is now fully shared…. However struggles show up with the other toys they can’t believe now it’s the fire truck instead of the pail. They realize life is not better just different… same discontent different players, different fights over different toys. Its simply two KIDS again married instead of authentic adults. This is the reality of most marriage’s. Electronics make it easy to be distracted…. this is a whole other topic.

My wife all along pretended to be “The adult” she ended up being the non-authentic MOTHER role in our marriage, I all along was the willing truly authentic SON. We were in a bonded MOTHER-SON relationship… this was acceptable for the first 16 years of our marriage until she had enough (I also had enough by then causing our initial fight and her to proclaim ILYNILWYA)… she needed to change me she wanted a FATHER. A MOM-SON dance is not fulfilling. Neither is another type of marriage the FATHER-DAUGHTER dance that bonding also ends up being unfulfilling. The facts are that many marriages can trace their struggles to each partner playing these roles. The fact is we gravitate to these roles because they are natural. A MOM wants to help the younger SON… I remember my wife stated long ago “I knew he would clean up well”… she “knew” she could change me. Or at least that’s what she believed…. Inside she’s just an immature girl hidden behind her mask incapable of changing anyone… she’s frightened and insecure. Only I could change myself to what she really wants a FATHER to go with her pretend MOTHER role.

A FATHER would not initially be attracted to a MOTHER he would avoid her like the plague… to much fight for control at the onset of the relationship which is hard to create a bond. So most people instead gravitate to either the MOTHER-SON marriage or the FATHER-DAUGHTER marriage both very unfulfilled over time this can also sometimes be described as BROTHER-SISTER or ROOMMATES down the road. The secret to success is realizing this “dance” and re-creating the marriage this time as authentic MOTHER-FATHER regardless of how you start… that is the overall goal. In my case I had to seriously emotionally GROW UP we both did. In my wife’s case she had to realize she herself was not an authentic MOTHER yet she was just pretending all along behind her mask she perfected. We both married our dark side and perfected our masks. This all came from our own parents. I had an overly protective MOM who dominated my DAD, my wife had to grow-up quick and become the MOTHER in her house as a child. She never had a good teen life and needed to re-live that timeframe at my expense now…. She needs to be liked by everyone and writes off those who displease her… because way deep down she’s every bit as immature as I was...hard to believe you are still immature after 40.

*The ESSENTIAL plan concepts. *

1.	*Look in the mirror*…. It takes a while to understand your role and your part in the current marriage. Most assuredly you have a large part in the disconnect. Identify your role and understand when you are doing the destructive behaviors. In my case I listened to my wife (MOTHER) when she told me what was wrong. I stopped those behaviors…problem is the unfulfilled sense of our marriage remained and she punished me by refusing to share the pail and shovel She herself decided to outsource the shovel (Emotional intimacy) and found herself drawn to a male friend emotionally… she had a multi-year daily emotional texting affair. Which she does not deny. I had to prove to her she was in one and using it as a crutch. The fog is thick.

2.	*Decide to change*… I knew eventually I was emotionally weak in her eyes I understood although at the time I didn’t have this easy to define label that I was essentially an emotionally immature man. We never fought and my wife called all the shots… Some people call this the “Nice guy” syndrome… in reality the Nice-guy is an emotionally immature man playing the role of SON. The MOTHER wants to bond with the SON initially but this over time is very unfulfilling. I had to understand that I needed to become a FATHER that’s what I did. I redefined my relationship with my own kids that was early in the process… the fully forgave me. Then I worked on becoming the FATHER in my wife’s eyes… problem was she was distracted in her emotional affair. She switched roles as I became more mature and devolved into the DAUGHTER….Know we were playing FATHER-DAUGHTER dance she was now my teen daughter (Facebook, gym, texting 1000 times a month another man). Our marriage dynamics changed but she now needed to really GROW-UP also. In reality the MOTHER role was a mask. Born out of her own childhood it was critical for her survival to hide behind this mask. Our own kids will eventually duplicate these roles in their marriage’s…. they learn from us. They will both struggle and continue this with their spouses in time. I will talk to them before them marry so they have and understanding of what to look for. Hopefully that will help them.

3.	*Anger is a must*….In becoming more of a FATHER I knew I had to display my feelings. I had to express my displeasure of what was wrong… I was fighting for control against a seemingly stronger spouse. I was tired of being dominated by my MOTHER. As I became this FATHER my wife reverted to the immature CHILD in our relationship…as I exposed her mask. I stood up to her EVERYTIME now gaining control. This generated authentic change in her. When I finally let go of the entire anger it came out in a full on rage. When she displayed anger back she got in touch with her inner CHILD… she had developed a mask hiding this deep emotional immaturity. She had to break down her mask devolve into the CHILD so she could authentically grow into the MOTHER role with me as the authentic FATHER. Only then could we hope to achieve renewed lifelong intimacy.

We both had to finally grow up into our authentic selves and truly authentic MOTHER-FATHER roles…. The last almost four years is this grow-up process and self-discovery. I want to start with this. Later I will post more details in an easy to follow framework. This is heady stuff and you need to understand your roles in the marriage. I can assure you that if you look deep you will see these roles in yourself and your spouse. Opposites attract that is why so many of us are unfulfilled… these marital partnerships are easy to create but over time they are unfulfilling. Look at your own marriage and define it as either MOTHER-SON or FATHER-DAUGHTER…. Realize that deep down its just a PARENTAL mask of the one spouse in reality you are actually living in a DAUGHTER-SON marriage with two emotionally immature partners one doing everything in their power to hide behind their mask… in my case it was my wife. The “parent” is just pretending. You control you… really emotionally GROW UP and bring your spouse along then you both can be authentically happy again. The child spouse is closer to true reality. You both learned these roles in childhood and never realized it. Now you are here. Stay tuned for an easier to digest version of the plan. For now think and define your current roles. Look at the current bonding, aim for MOTHER-FATHER.

For me this means acting as the FATHER. I need to be cognizant of my tendencies not to share feelings and to punish my wife by withdrawing.. I needed to simply grow up. That means doing things I am not accustomed to doing like being a true success. I tend to be happy with the status quo and I know realize I need to do more. I need to be more engaged in everything. I need to stop thinking and more doing. This is critical for my wife to feel whole. Examine yourself that’s the first step. Fix you then work on your spouse. Its hard but over time it does work. More to come. This was just laying the groundwork so that I can make the details of the plan easier to follow later. Take the first step… look in the mirror and at your roles. You are either the authentic CHILD or the non-authentic PARENT if you are here looking for answers. Understand what you are and where you need to go. Then you can fix your marriage. Feel good books don’t cut it this is dirty long and hard work… but very rewarding as long as you can be patient for change. Stay tuned for Part 2.

T2


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

OP, aside from some of the incestuous analogies you put into your thread, you make a number of good points for maintaining a strong marriage. However, I am not grasping what makes this plan so new or unique compared to some of the other advice given to you. I know this was based on your experiences with getting your wife to reconnect with you after her EA/PA.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> OP, aside from some of the incestuous analogies you put into your thread, you make a number of good points for maintaining a strong marriage. However, I am not grasping what makes this plan so new or unique compared to some of the other advice given to you. I know this was based on your experiences with getting your wife to reconnect with you after her EA/PA.


You are correct, my plan is not "new" obviously others have had similar success. I think though I have a way of making the concepts digestible. I am not under any constraint from a publisher so I can tell it like it is. I think once Part 2 hits you will see the framework is what makes THE PLAN unique versus other remedies.

My goal is a complete total makeover of both spouses.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> You are correct, my plan is not "new" obviously others have had similar success. I think though I have a way of making the concepts digestible. I am not under any constraint from a publisher so I can tell it like it is. I think once Part 2 hits you will see the framework is what makes THE PLAN unique versus other remedies.
> 
> My goal is a complete total makeover of both spouses.


Fair enough. I await part 2 when you're ready to post it.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

So did "THE PLAN" help you get laid at least twice a week, almost every week?


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Okay T2, we've been waiting.......


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

jaquen said:


> So did "THE PLAN" help you get laid at least twice a week, almost every week?


No, could it sure.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Trying2figureitout said:


> No, could it sure.


OP. You have tried to post a "guide" before on how to fix your sexless marriage but you never provided any details on how it improved. Now it seems you are trying with a plan, yet again you offer no tangible results that your situation is resolved.

I don't know how to say this other than to just do so. No amount of wishing you found the answer will make it so.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> No, could it sure.


Not trying to pile on here since I want to see your additional installments of the plan, but are you still having troubles in the bedroom?


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

Fascinating - but way beyond my pay grade. We'll just continue to love each other and have amazing pregnancy sex. Might have to revisit after baby gets here.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

sinnister said:


> OP. You have tried to post a "guide" before on how to fix your sexless marriage but you never provided any details on how it improved. Now it seems you are trying with a plan, yet again you offer no tangible results that your situation is resolved.
> 
> I don't know how to say this other than to just do so. No amount of wishing you found the answer will make it so.


I would not post something that did not make profound changes in my marriage. 

How much has my marriage improved its immeasurable from the night she proclaimed ILYNILWY, Our intimacy has returned and is getting stronger week by week and we are on the same path. The affair has been handled...as we both are on the path of growing into our adult selves. 

It still is a work in progress but I'm at the stage that I know this is the correct path to take in a sexless marriage. When I read the latest reference just last week I saw my PLAN from the perspective of actual professionals who make this their lifelong work. So its basically two times THE PLAN has been portrayed as a success.

I came up with it on my own because I did not know about the latest resource...that to me validated it entirely.

I know there are skeptics... I lived it and it works.

Its not for those looking for a quick shallow fix or ultimatum. Its for those who want authentic permanent change that addresses the core issue that got you into trouble years later due to the roles you were unconsciously living.


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## NeverAgain12 (Jan 15, 2012)

yeah, for all those potentially getting suckered in by this drivel, read this post from less than two months ago. Your delusion is staggering.

Read post #37 on this page. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...-my-husband-trust-me-again-3.html#post1611963


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

*Re: Re: Part 1... An introduction to THE PLAN*



NeverAgain12 said:


> yeah, for all those potentially getting suckered in by this drivel


 I'll decide on my own what's drivel.


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## NeverAgain12 (Jan 15, 2012)

anchorwatch said:


> I'll decide on my own what's drivel.


Did I imply that you're not all smart enough to decide on your own? No. I'm just pointing out that if you've ever followed any of his posts and knew his story that you're wasting your time. He spouts off that he has solved it all yet he can post how he will never look at his wife the same again.

Just trying to avoid all that for the unsuspecting, but for you, please do go waste your time.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Its not for those looking for a quick shallow fix or ultimatum. Its for those who want authentic permanent change that addresses the core issue that got you into trouble years later due to the roles you were unconsciously living.


But you've experienced no "permanent" change, nor have you corrected the nearly sexless state of your marriage.

Perhaps it will be best to post THE PLAN after you've tested it out for a longer term and are having a fulfilling sex life? It seems irresponsible to be trying to pedal a plan that hasn't produced any tangible, lasting impact on your own marriage so far. It sounds like a work in progress, which is fine, but not a solid plan that can be successfully followed by others.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

committed4ever said:


> Fascinating - but way beyond my pay grade. We'll just continue to love each other and have amazing pregnancy sex. Might have to revisit after baby gets here.



Committed... I applaud you for recognizing what you feel now versus what you may feel years later. Your husband is very lucky that you take the time to better your marriage. As long as you understand your roles you'll be fine and guard against bonding that long-term does not fulfill each other. Just always remember you life and relationship can turn on a dime. Guard against resentment.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

jaquen said:


> But you've experienced no "permanent" change, nor have you corrected the nearly sexless state of your marriage.
> 
> Perhaps it will be best to post THE PLAN after you've tested it out for a longer term and are having a fulfilling sex life? It seems irresponsible to be trying to pedal a plan that hasn't produced any tangible, lasting impact on your own marriage so far. It sounds like a work in progress, which is fine, but not a solid plan that can be successfully followed by others.


THE PLAN has been tested long term..and it definitely has produced life-long tangible results by re-focusing both of us on out partnership. I understand the skepticism especially to the poster who I will not respond directly too that called my plan "drivel". It certainly is NOT drivel its based on nearly four years of research and daily observation.

I am not here to defend my plan rather to present it in its entirety to help those seeking answers in their own marriages no matter what the current state. You all have brains think about whether its worth your time or not... frankly I don't care.

What I do care about is getting a framework out there that is "new" and proven to work in more than one case. I'm good at simplification that is a strength of mine, I cut though the nonsense and tell it like it is.

I don't need to be liked what I do need is the common decency of not making this a mockery.

I will leave if it gets to bad and that would do a disservice to those actually seeking a legitimate path better their marriage in every facet.

By growing up.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

NeverAgain12 said:


> Just trying to avoid all that for the unsuspecting, but for you, please do go waste your time.


Yep... The way it is and has always been presented is that these "Plans" from him work. They haven't; He's still in a nearly sexless marriage and has continued to 'nice his way' into being a really useful engine.. Sure, there have been some changes, but I wouldn't say "success at last". 

I think the 'fear' from some of us who've been around is that the uninitiated might read this stuff and think it works really well. 

And those of us who have experienced much more success, seldom try to be this or that... We just are who we are. And we didn't find success until we stopped trying to live up to other's standards and expectations; We get that from within. Basically... we stopped listening to external sources for who we should be. At least now he seems to acknowledge that he needs to look in a mirror instead of the reflection through other peoples eyes.


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## Auggren (Jun 11, 2013)

Dude you need to go out into the real world. Sniff some air and see reality and not just post here when you loose you limp bizkit nookie sp and your doll needs fixed
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Racer said:


> Yep... The way it is and has always been presented is that these "Plans" from him work. They haven't; He's still in a nearly sexless marriage and has continued to 'nice his way' into being a really useful engine.. Sure, there have been some changes, but I wouldn't say "success at last".
> 
> I think the 'fear' from some of us who've been around is that the uninitiated might read this stuff and think it works really well.
> 
> And those of us who have experienced much more success, seldom try to be this or that... We just are who we are. And we didn't find success until we stopped trying to live up to other's standards and expectations; We get that from within. Basically... we stopped listening to external sources for who we should be. At least now he seems to acknowledge that he needs to look in a mirror instead of the reflection through other peoples eyes.


Glad that worked for you... but in reality it was mostly TIME just like my PLAN.

Your "Just stop listening to external sources and stop living up to someone else's expectations and standards"

May have worked. I would assume the bigger factor was change in behaviors especially destructive ones and TIME.

Best to know what you are doing over TIME hence THE PLAN framework.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Auggren said:


> Dude you need to go out into the real world. Sniff some air and see reality and not just post here when you loose you limp bizkit nookie sp and your doll needs fixed
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sigh... you're lucky I love you. 

And yes, he had to explain it to me lol.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Auggren said:


> Dude you need to go out into the real world. Sniff some air and see reality and not just post here when you loose you limp bizkit nookie sp and your doll needs fixed
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Glad you signed up just to say that..thank you. TAM can thank me for another subscriber.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Glad you signed up just to say that..thank you. TAM can thank me for another subscriber.


No, TAM can thank ME for a new member. I'm the one who got my husband to join!


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> No, TAM can thank ME for a new member. I'm the one who got my husband to join!


Nice... honored he piled on me first.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

I, for one, thought you have something going on here. Iron John by Robert Bly (a book I reference a lot) speak a lot about how men need to contend with their quasi-Oedipal Complexes...not properly severed from nurture...and not fully initiated into manhood...in arrested, emotional limbo concerning his maturation. It results in your mother-son marriage...where the man brings his nurture issues to his wife (gives her the power to his validation)...as well as creates dissonance within the man toward attaining that masculine leadership...so closely associated to the father that rejected or neglected him.
I have experienced the same shift...wife went wayward...rebelling against the framework...but over-corrected into selfish abandon...desiring someone to dominate her into oblivion...looking for the Father-Daughter paradigm. I think this is clearly the dance of dysfunction, where equalization is problematic.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

FormerSelf said:


> I, for one, thought you have something going on here. Iron John by Robert Bly (a book I reference a lot) speak a lot about how men need to contend with their quasi-Oedipal Complexes...not properly severed from nurture...and not fully initiated into manhood...in arrested, emotional limbo concerning his maturation. It results in your mother-son marriage...where the man brings his nurture issues to his wife (gives her the power to his validation)...as well as creates dissonance within the man toward attaining that masculine leadership...so closely associated to the father that rejected or neglected him.
> I have experienced the same shift...wife went wayward...rebelling against the framework...but over-corrected into selfish abandon...desiring someone to dominate her into oblivion...looking for the Father-Daughter paradigm. I think this is clearly the dance of dysfunction, where equalization is problematic.



Glad you understand where I am coming from.. my goal again is to simplify it for the masses I do believe with near certainty that most sexless marriages follow these dynamics.

Once you identify that you have a path for change and both partners have to walk the same path eventually at the same pace.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

is this any different from last year's PLAN?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> is this any different from last year's PLAN?


Of course it is! It's got one extra year added to it!


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Nice... honored he piled on me first.


Well, when he heard one more thing about THE PLAN coming back... he'd heard enough.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Glad you understand where I am coming from.. my goal again is to simplify it for the masses I do believe with near certainty that most sexless marriages follow these dynamics.
> 
> Once you identify that you have a path for change and both partners have to walk the same path eventually at the same pace.


So... which of these dynamics to cheaters fall into? Sorry, in your wall of text, I didn't see where you and your wife fit... that's why I asked.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> is this any different from last year's PLAN?


Yes and no. I am more aware of what is going on and have more observations of change.

Best way to describe it is I've followed the path that finally led out of the forest until that happens you are not quite sure of the edge until you reach it.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> So... which of these dynamics to cheaters fall into? Sorry, in your wall of text, I didn't see where you and your wife fit... that's why I asked.


Outsourcing a toy in the sandbox. Wife was a child hiding behind an adult mask seeking a FATHER through electronic means. I was the authentic son/child.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

I think your plan has some validity for some and I am not here to critique or break it down. However your opening is a bit pretentious with the assumption you are providing a gift because we all have a flawed marriage. And, if we don't admit it we are only fooling ourselves.

It is true that we are all selfish and flawed people. The perfect person to marry does not exist. Figuring out how these two people can manage to pedal the tandem bike along the marathon path in the same direction is no doubt a challenge. 

It is true that you need to take personal responsibility for your own actions in the marriage, but as on the tandem bike that personal responsibility cannot be one in which I want to change directions when my spouse is not willing to do the same. Some times marriage requires leadership and other times compromise and understanding how to differentiate these two can be difficult but important. 

Anyway, this is not so much a picking apart as it is just helping to refine the plan.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

C'mon, T2, just post the rest of your plan and be done with it. You are inviting abusive comments by making grandiose claims that you do not fulfill. I remember when January 2012 was your goal for having sex with your wife. Why do you enjoy the drama of all of this?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

drerio said:


> I think your plan has some validity for some and I am not here to critique or break it down. However your opening is a bit pretentious with the assumption you are providing a gift because we all have a flawed marriage. And, if we don't admit it we are only fooling ourselves.
> 
> It is true that we are all selfish and flawed people. The perfect person to marry does not exist. Figuring out how these two people can manage to pedal the tandem bike along the marathon path in the same direction is no doubt a challenge.
> 
> ...


The point is you would not be subscribed to TAM if you marriage was un-flawed. People come here because of the flaws so my presumption appears sound. I appreciate your comments.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

I'm really trying to read this in all honesty. It's muddied up when I need a key to the different types and analogies.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

LovesHerMan said:


> C'mon, T2, just post the rest of your plan and be done with it. You are inviting abusive comments by making grandiose claims that you do not fulfill. I remember when January 2012 was your goal for having sex with your wife. *Why do you enjoy the drama of all of this?[/*QUOTE]
> 
> Honestly I think it is part of "The Plan"
> 
> Please T2 just lay the whole thing out there, top to bottom leave nothing out.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Where is last year's PLAN? (PLAN 1.0) I'd like to compare and contrast PLAN 1.0 and PLAN 2.0


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> The point is you would not be subscribed to TAM if you marriage was un-flawed. People come here because of the flaws so my presumption appears sound. I appreciate your comments.


Look at the Myths of TAM thread. It is a myth that people with happy marriages do not post on TAM.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

LovesHerMan said:


> C'mon, T2, just post the rest of your plan and be done with it. You are inviting abusive comments by making grandiose claims that you do not fulfill. I remember when January 2012 was your goal for having sex with your wife. Why do you enjoy the drama of all of this?


I will post the next installment on my time frame... probably next month.

It takes a while for certain topics to sink in since TIME is a key concept a month isn't long. I'm not sure how many parts yet... next part will have the details of what works.

You think I like the abuse?

What I like is changing thinking to something productive and tangible.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> The point is you would not be subscribed to TAM if you marriage was un-flawed. People come here because of the flaws so my presumption appears sound. I appreciate your comments.


Not true I did not subscribe to TAM because my marriage was flawed. I came here on a whim through google and since found it to be an interesting place and along the way I have made friends.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

SomedayDig said:


> I'm really trying to read this in all honesty. It's muddied up when I need a key to the different types and analogies.


I will post a clarification of the roles in the next installment.

*Dancing in the Dark : The Shadow Side of Intimate Relationships*
Explains in detail these roles.

My marriage sandbox analogy is my own yet this book uses similar descriptions.. basically it gave me the language and labels to explain my Plan in a professional way.

My job now is to simplify it and provide a framework.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

drerio said:


> Not true I did not subscribe to TAM because my marriage was flawed. I came here on a whim through google and since found it to be an interesting place and along the way I have made friends.



So you were goggling marriage..WHY?

You are searching for answers.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> So you were goggling marriage..WHY?
> 
> You are searching for answers.


I was not googling marriage, it was a music question... I know crazy right? If you go onto the Social site there are music threads.

ETA: In recent days I have given my story on marriage in the Successful Long Term Marriage Forum... prompted by SimplyAmorous. I myself did not want to assume I had all the answers.

Listen, I appreciate that you are trying to better yourself and your marriage. I am not here to beat down your plan, just wanted to make some clarification.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

Clarification, I was looking to composed a song for my wife... so that is how I kind of googled it. I guess that would assume marriage.


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> Sigh... you're lucky I love you.
> 
> And yes, he had to explain it to me lol.


Maricha I'm sooooo jealous


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

drerio said:


> Clarification, I was looking to composed a song for my wife... so that is how I kind of googled it. I guess that would assume marriage.


I used to believe I had the perfect marriage also. Glad yours is working currently.

Thanks for the input.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

This is to help not hurt you plan, I think you should revise the sandbox analogy to the tandem bicycle. If you have ever ridden one of these you would see how this fits better into the marriage scenario. 

I would even encourage you to ride one with your wife. Playing in a sandbox, can be too independent of both individuals. Being a parent, juggling finances and being truly intimate requires the analogy of working in tandem not as parallel play, sandbox analogy.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> I used to believe I had the perfect marriage also. Glad yours is working currently.
> 
> Thanks for the input.


That is just the thing, I never believed in a perfect marriage and to start life together that way is always going to lead to disappointment. My marriage is not perfect, but it is successful and long-lasting. Please feel free to subscribe to my thread and see how flawed I am as well as my wife and yet we manage to work at our marriage. 

I knew from day one this was going to be tough... I have told others and I will say it again, my wife set the scenario. When I asked her to marry me, her response: "I will make your life miserable... Ok I will marry you."


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> The point is you would not be subscribed to TAM if you marriage was un-flawed. People come here because of the flaws so my presumption appears sound.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

What are the tangible results? 

Are you having regular sex with your wife?


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

You did exactly this last year. Posted vague, wordy, convoluted posts about your plan, but refused to give any details or describe results.

It's irritating and time wasting. It sound like you are still not having sex with your wife at a frequency that most people consider normal. You may have improved your relationship in other ways, but your whole plan is supposed to solve sexless marriages and turn them into sexual relationships. 

Go away until you can show real, sexual results.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> I used to believe I had the perfect marriage also. Glad yours is working *currently*.
> 
> Thanks for the input.


Ugh. Same old condescending stuff.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

I still think you need to do away with the analogy stuff and stick with direct wording. It's too cutesy and gimmicky. In other words, most people will not get past the first couple paragraphs before their eyes glaze over.

Also, in light of what others are posting, I guess I gotta ask what makes you think you can create this "Plan" that you have never enacted? I mean, that'd be like me trying to write a book on golf. I love the game and play the game, but I suck at it.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> Where is last year's PLAN? (PLAN 1.0) I'd like to compare and contrast PLAN 1.0 and PLAN 2.0


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Holland said:


> Ugh. Same old condescending stuff.


There seems to be a lot of resentment, bitterness, and envy in Trying2figureitout.

He supposes that all marriages are bad, even the good ones. If you disagree he tells you that you just haven't figured it out yet that your marriage is crap.

If you do make it clear that you have a great marriage he warns you that this is a temporary condition that is likely to crumble at any moment. Hence the dire warnings.

So regardless you're either being screwed, about to be screwed, or have been screwed but didn't realize it.

So here is a poster who claims he is here to heal marriages and show everyone the way back to healthy, sexually active, vibrant marriages.

All the while undermining the very people who already do have healthy, sexually active, vibrant marriages.

Perhaps he'll finally give us credit if we say we arrived at our joy using *THE PLAN*!


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

I am happy with my marriage and current intimacy/sexlife that is coming off a sexless marriage. More importantly is the dynamics or roles have changed because over time change occurred. 

This is not meant to be "cutesy" and if this is too far above you head to "glaze over" then I weep for the education system.

I understand this isn't as easy to understand as a 180 or Man Up which both have limited direct success on a sexless marriage scenario.

In subsequent Part(s) I will make this more granular with specific actionable items that over time produce results until then I posted the 10,000 foot view for the public to digest.

If you think my view supported by professionals is wrong or a crock then you are denying an avenue to fix your marriage.

I do have a more jaded look on marriage than I used to, its hard to have that view when things are seemingly going well.... in reality it can be a mask. In reality each spouse is a human capable of resentment and self interest.

Hence this forum. Hence the divorce rates.
Corresponds with availability of electronic communication. Everyone living multiple Avatars compounding the likelihood of an unacceptable marriage.

If I come across as condescending I don't care... I'm trying to help those who want another answer of what the hell is going on. I cut through the BS.

I will post the final version of THE PLAN in future installments earlier versions were obviously a work in progress and deleted as to avoid confusion.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Trying2figureitout said:


> If I come across as condescending I don't care... i'm trying to help those who want another answer of what the hell is going on. I cut through the BS..


No, you don’t cut through the BS. For over a year you’ve been working on your marriage. And come across as condescending as hell. But maybe that’s “over my head”.

Dude, you are making the pursuit your life... There are multiple examples here on this board of people, both married and divorced that are living their life and happily getting what they want out of it. To me, your plan is like sticking a penny in the bank every day to save up for $10 grand: 27 years and “the plan” is working because you now have $3.50 saved. Goody for you! It is more than you had last year, and the year before that... so in the right perspective, it is working. Grats!


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Oh, and lol. My own WW has been rubbing me wrong lately. This morning I was considering divorce again and reflecting all that I’ve been through. Then I lurked this thread again. It does remind me of how much growth and how far we’ve come in comparison to yours. That gave me faith that we have come a long, long way. So at least you are having an impact; maybe not the one you wanted, but from my side of things and where my marriage is, it doesn’t look so gloomy and I can see tangible major progress in getting what I want and need out of my own relationship.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> I am happy with my marriage and current intimacy/sexlife that is coming off a sexless marriage. More importantly is the dynamics or roles have changed because over time change occurred.
> 
> This is not meant to be "cutesy" and if this is too far above you head to "glaze over" then I weep for the education system.
> 
> ...


I am not suggesting you are wrong, but do you have the citations to the peer-reviewed research articles that helps support this theory?


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

I came here looking to make an already good marriage better. Not everyone comes here because of problems in the marriage.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Racer said:


> Oh, and lol. My own WW has been rubbing me wrong lately. This morning I was considering divorce again and reflecting all that I’ve been through. Then I lurked this thread again. It does remind me of how much growth and how far we’ve come in comparison to yours. That gave me faith that we have come a long, long way. So at least you are having an impact; maybe not the one you wanted, but from my side of things and where my marriage is, it doesn’t look so gloomy and I can see tangible major progress in getting what I want and need out of my own relationship.



Good I hope my thread gave you a chance to re-evaluate before the big D.

What I am getting is exactly what I was aiming for all along... a re-balanced marriage with dynamics corrected permanently. My marriage considering everything is right up there with some of the best ones now.

What does not kill you does make you stronger... good luck on yours. You do have to take in the whole enchilada and simply work the issue over time with a focus on the end goal.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I tried tough love last time but it didn't work. 

I tried to be nice last year but that failed too. 

Fixing a sexless marriage can ONLY be measured by the amount of sex you're getting. I mean....that's the definition right?

Am I wrong here?


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> This is not meant to be "cutesy" and if this is too far above *you head* to "glaze over" then I weep for the education system.


Do you mean "your head"?



Trying2figureitout said:


> I do have a more jaded look on marriage than I used to, *its hard *to have that view when things are seemingly going well*....* in reality it can be a mask.


Don't you mean "it's"? Shouldn't that ellipsis have only three periods?


You might want to correct your own grammatical issues before snidely attacking the educational backgrounds of your fellow posters.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

sinnister said:


> I tried tough love last time but it didn't work.
> 
> I tried to be nice last year but that failed too.
> 
> ...


Yes the goal is a mutually acceptable sexlife with the realization when out of balance usually means other parts also are out of balance as in attitudes, emotional connectivity, resentment levels and protective filters.

The overall goal is a health balance of all factors. That's growing into your ultimate roles together on the same path.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

No, for months you've been saying you had the key to help the unhappy sexless transform their marriages into sexual ones.

So the primary element here that will sell THE PLAN is to enlighten people as to what impact it has had on your _sex life_.

So how much sex are you guys having per week, on average?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

I've seen this approach before... Get rich quick schemes. Has the same build up, tells you nothing. You finally get to the end... and still nothing. That, or you forgo the end because the hype was too much to wade through.

Come on, T2FIO. If you really have something that will help these poor unfortunate souls, then just tell them and get it over with. All you're going to do with all this BS hype is piss them off... or completely turn them off. They will look at you as the boy who called wolf, and rightfully so, if you keep throwing bones to try to keep them interested. Face it. If THE PLAN really worked, you would be antsy to post it all out there, completely. You know it. I know it. The entire forum knows it. So. if there really is anything that WORKS in your PLAN, then just tell it and get it over with. Stop screwing around with these poor people. Seriously, this is why the speculation that you actually get off on the ridicule. If you didn't,, you would have actually posted it by now.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> I've seen this approach before... Get rich quick schemes. Has the same build up, tells you nothing. You finally get to the end... and still nothing. That, or you forgo the end because the hype was too much to wade through.
> 
> Come on, T2FIO. If you really have something that will help these poor unfortunate souls, then just tell them and get it over with. All you're going to do with all this BS hype is piss them off... or completely turn them off. They will look at you as the boy who called wolf, and rightfully so, if you keep throwing bones to try to keep them interested. Face it. If THE PLAN really worked, you would be antsy to post it all out there, completely. You know it. I know it. The entire forum knows it. So. if there really is anything that WORKS in your PLAN, then just tell it and get it over with. Stop screwing around with these poor people. Seriously, this is why the speculation that you actually get off on the ridicule. If you didn't,, you would have actually posted it by now.


No... I do this in my own way. If you don't like it tough.

I will now that I started Part 1 continue with Part 2 later. For now there is enough to give people time to think about their own marriages which is an initial step in the right direction and the roles and the masks that are there in every troubled marriage. Then they will be ready for and actionable framework.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

jaquen said:


> No, for months you've been saying you had the key to help the unhappy sexless transform their marriages into sexual ones.
> 
> So the primary element here that will sell THE PLAN is to enlighten people as to what impact it has had on your _sex life_.
> 
> So how much sex are you guys having per week, on average?


True and I will not post how much because that just opens up a can of worms its what I aimed for. Besides I could lie and you would have no idea if it were true or not. So its a mute point. Its between my wife and I not everyone in the world.

I'm not selling the PLAN I'm offering it up FREE as an alternative to other options. I make no warranties it will actually work in every case. I do believe the science is sound though and the results speak for themselves over time. There is no quick fix only the correct one.

I already helped one poster reconsider divorce... that's a good thing.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> True and I will not post how much because that just opens up a can of worms its what I aimed for. Besides I could lie and you would have no idea if it were true or not. So its a mute point. Its between my wife and I not everyone in the world.



That's like being a 450 lbs morbidly obese man who claims you have discovered a new, proven way to more easily lose weight...

But when asked how much weight you've lost you refuse to post a picture or reveal your new weight.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

jaquen said:


> That's like being a 450 lbs morbidly obese man who claims you have discovered a new, proven way to more easily lose weight...
> 
> But when asked how much weight you've lost you refuse to post a picture or reveal your new weight.


Perhaps but I know the way TAM works. I don't care if people use the Plan or not I just want it to be available because I know it can help in the case of troubled marriages. Especially sexless ones. Its up to everyone to decide for themselves what to believe. The science and theory is sound and not just concocted out of thin air.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Perhaps but I know the way TAM works. I don't care if people use the Plan or not I just want it to be available because I know it can help in the case of troubled marriages. Especially sexless ones. Its up to everyone to decide for themselves what to believe. The science and theory is sound and not just concocted out of thin air.


What are the tangible results you've seen?

How frequently do you and your wife have sex together?

How are you expecting your advice to be taken seriously without the before and after statistical data to back it up?


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

I have an above-average IQ and several tertiary qualifications. I found your analogy confusing and had to keep rechecking which play activity related to which marital problem. It muddied what you were trying to say which is the opposite of what an analogy should do. 

And as Jaquen said, you have spent a long time claiming you had the answer to turning sexless marriages into sexual ones. Not improving the balance, or finding mutually acceptable solutions. And since you were content with sex once a month for the first 15/20 years of your marriage you have nothing to teach anyone who is looking for a more normal sex life.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Thread is now closed. Too many forum rules are being broken.

Trying2figureitout, your opening post would be better suited for use on your personal website or blog. Unless you are a published author and/or an expert (with credentials) on the subject, you can't expect everyone to welcome your theories as "fact".


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