# What marriages are worth saving?



## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

I've noticed in threads where people are on the brink of divorce, the question is often asked something like, "Is the marriage worth saving." What characteristics do you consider make a marriage worth saving?

In my case, I would have thought my marriage was worth saving. there was no cheating or abuse, no arguing, no financial issues, no recent life changing events, yet my x wife was no longer happy and wanted a divorce.

What are some examples of marriages that would be worth saving and those that wouldn't?


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## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

For me, only the issue of kids makes a marriage worth saving.

That can't have been a healthy experience for you. Not knowing and not expecting to be left high and dry must be a drag.

Apart from your own, what do you think speaking generally, to your own question?

There is a proverb, I think it's slovenian or serbian which goes:

A woman wants three men: One to pay for her, one to love her and one to beat her.

Obviously it's not easy to provide the third service nowadays. Perhaps in modern speak it would be:

One to pay for her, one to love her, and one to provide the drama/trouble. 

In your marriage there was no trouble... women are strange creatures. They enjoy all emotions, not just always positive, but sometimes the negative ones too.

They enjoy missing people, being jealous, feeling spite, as much as they enjoy falling in love, having a holiday, buying a new cat.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Sandfly said:


> For me, only the issue of kids makes a marriage worth saving.
> 
> That can't have been a healthy experience for you. Not knowing and not expecting to be left high and dry must be a drag.
> 
> ...


I guess i was lacking on the drama. I hate drama just about as much as anything. I like peace.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Why bother with marriage?


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## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

southbound said:


> I guess i was lacking on the drama. I hate drama just about as much as anything. I like peace.


I know that. Every man loves peace at home. But he enjoys trouble abroad. He enjoys competing with people in the marketplace and on the sportsfield.

But think of it this way, to try to understand it. 

Imagine you are playing your favourite sport, and you never lose, nor even come close to losing. Imagine no-one is even keeping score. No-one gets injured. You would get bored.

Imagine you have a job where there is no competition, and where nothing you do makes a difference to the size of your wage packet, nor promotion prospects. The people you work with always agree with everything you say, even when you deliberately say two things in one day which directly contradict. You would get bored.

Well, for a woman, they get frustrated by the challenges at work, and wish everything was easy and straightforward. Women ***** about co-workers and bosses and pretend glass-ceilings. All they want at work is peace and they never get it. Men love a varied and challenging workplace with lots of shenanigans.

Women love a homelife and family life full of shenanigans.

Neither is stupid, just different, annoyingly different.

This is all just a theory. Does it make sense?


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Sandfly said:


> I know that. Every man loves peace at home. But he enjoys trouble abroad. He enjoys competing with people in the marketplace and on the sportsfield.
> 
> But think of it this way, to try to understand it.
> 
> ...


It sounds like a reasonable theory. I am different. I actually don't care for drama abroad. I often say i don't even know what the word bored means. I don't think I ever experience that emotion, even if I have to sit in a waiting room for two hours; I am inwardly content. I am probably not the norm among guys. 



Thound said:


> Why bother with marriage?


I now ask myself that same question. I don't think i will ever bother with it again.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

A marriage is worth saving when the two people still have some love for each other. Even if there is just a small bit of love still there, I think it can be rekindled.

We have five kids and love each other very much, so I can't really speak from experience on the divorce or close to divorce issue.

Btw, did you see AP's comment on that duty sex thread in SIM? She says, and rightly so, that there should be some arguments in marriage, that marriage is messy. Marriage is alive, you know? We are not always going to agree. That's where we can stimulate each other and grow.


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## CharlotteMcdougall (Mar 15, 2014)

I grew up with parents who should have divorced about 20 years ago. They stayed for their kids but it ended up providing a bad example of marriage. This is why I don't think staying for the children is always the best idea.

Marriage is worth saving if both partners are willing to work towards happiness. Some couples are able to save abusive marriages or marriages where infidelity has occurred. Others divorce because of issues as simple as one partner being boring. 

I knew a woman who broke up her marriage just because her husband wasn't "fun." Now she is a struggling single mom complaining about not being able to afford a home. By her own admission, her husband was a a great father, a loving husband and an all around good guy. I think she was an idiot. 

My husband is introverted and solitary. He can be a bit boring at times, but he is also very dependable and caring. I would rather put up with a bit of boredom than deal with a "life of the party" type who is always out at clubs.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

CharlotteMcdougall said:


> I knew a woman who broke up her marriage just because her husband wasn't "fun."


This is how my sil felt about my brother. Until he brought home millions from the tech sector. Now I guess he's fun enough.


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## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

southbound said:


> It sounds like a reasonable theory. I am different. I actually don't care for drama abroad. I often say i don't even know what the word bored means. I don't think I ever experience that emotion, even if I have to sit in a waiting room for two hours; I am inwardly content. I am probably not the norm among guys.


I too am naturally content with everything, except the human race.

But just like me, you have many decades of dealing with people to get through before your next incarnation, so we both must start adapting to the bullsh!t world as it _is_, and not how it _should _be.

So we need to increase your competitivity. Start with the basics. What makes a person emotionally tied to an outcome (i.e. competitive)?

1- there is a win or lose situation
2- by skill/luck/brains/brawn we can increase the odds of winning
3- we have some kind of stake in the outcome.

I suggest you start by betting $20 on a boxing match on TV. 

It should only ever be a small amount, just to make it 'interesting' and never more than pocket-money. You should place the bet with a friend/co-worker. Never, ever gamble with a bookmaker or other stranger.

Then, watch the match. You'll soon remember why other people enjoy drama/competition/strife, and you'll start wanting more yourself. Then you'll be in tune with people again. If you want to be. Which you do.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

It really depends on what your tolerance is. Some people divorce over a very stinky fart while others would forgive their spouse when they sleep with 20 other people and bring home herpes. Some marriages go on far longer than they should have. 

Personally my deal breakers are cheating, abuse and general dislike for the person.


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## SteveK (Mar 15, 2014)

jld said:


> This is how my sil felt about my brother. Until he brought home millions from the tech sector. Now I guess he's fun enough.


Jld

Had I followed the advice in your signature I would not be where I M today...looking to TAM for support.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SteveK said:


> Jld
> 
> Had I followed the advice in your signature I would not be where I M today...looking to TAM for support.


I'll take a look at your thread. Hope you're feeling supported here. 

And btw, the book in my sig, The Way of the Superior Man, is excellent.


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## CharlotteMcdougall (Mar 15, 2014)

Sanity said:


> It really depends on what your tolerance is. Some people divorce over a very stinky fart while others would forgive their spouse when they sleep with 20 other people and bring home herpes. Some marriages go on far longer than they should have.
> 
> Personally my deal breakers are cheating, abuse and general dislike for the person.


Divorce for pungent flatulence! :rofl:

Physical affairs are a deal breaker for me, though I could forgive an emotional one. My husband and I don't _always _like each other, but the tremendous love and respect is there. We are one of those couples who hug and kiss soon after a fight; no point in holding a grudge.


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## Adeline (Jan 24, 2014)

I've never really sat and purposely thought of the criteria for a marriage "worth saving," but I guess subconsciously I kind of did categorize certain elements. I feel similarly about cheating... though I know many people work through that and even are able to build stronger marriages in the aftermath. My best friend chooses to stay with her husband who has cheated, though I wouldn't really say their marriage is very strong. But it doesn't seem to be a dealbreaker to her. For me, I feel that it would be. When there is some sort of negative element that is tangible (such as you described with cheating, finances etc) your focus can go all into that. So either your focus on those specific things causes you to say "nope, I'm done because of X" or "ok, we need to fix X." When there isn't this tangible element such as what it seems you are describing in the OP (I haven't read your other threads) you can be somewhat lost in what direction to go. You don't know what you should be fixing, and there's nothing to pinpoint as a decision making or breaking part. You can't really say "I refuse to live with this" because there is no specific thing you can assess! 

I have the same issue in my marriage... there is no focal point for our problematic marriage, other than my husband is unhappy. He can't really articulate why, and I can't figure it out. He also wants to work things out. There hasn't been cheating, and for the most part I am grateful for that. Since it lacks that problem, it does make me feel like my marriage is "worth saving." Ok, so at least I don't have to work through that. But what am I supposed to work through? I don't wish he cheated, but I do wish I had something that was clear and concise that we could work on solving. So, I don't really know whats worse. Actual devastating physical problems, or the absence of them but still a problem remains.


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## NostalgicOne (Mar 24, 2014)

I forgave cheating multiple times (stupid,I know,married as teen so cut me some slack) over 16yrs and I ended it upon discovering he was spending 5k a month on a fancy second skyline apt. in Baltimore city and it was truly time to file after I found another woman listed as his "wife" in his brothers obituary he married in Mexico. 
Nice way to find out. 
I know marriage is work and I saw a lot of fighting in my parents marriage(they are still together after 40plus yrs) and it was drilled in my head, "for better or for worse". 
Unfortunately I chose from a young naïve age the wrong one to marry. But I also thought that we were young and he would, "mature" and get the flings out of his system as otherwise we had an ideal marriage that worked.(I thought).
Cheating isn't about maturity, it's about,"power". He felt powerless in his job at the time(moving thru the ranks from bottom of Pro Racing) and I was the big bread winner as a Highly Successful Model for years. 
It doesn't get better- but I surely hung in there thru his financial issues,infidelities etc etc....hoping it would resolve itself, it didn't. Know when to cut it off at the bud. Save you a WORLD of pain,your youth , money, and save your children the hurt.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Good question. I think those marriages that have no need of being saved as those worth saving. That doesn't mean others are excluded, but if the question has to be asked by a couple, I have to wonder if whatever they are trying to 'save' is already gone for good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Interesting point, breeze.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Most people will give a list of actions or needs not being met to say a Marriage is not worth saving....(cheating, physical abuse on the top)... but far more marriages end over simple unresolved resentment (for any myriad of reasons-they are as individual as we are)...which slowly festers ..and sometimes silently...till it makes it's way to "contempt"...it's very unfortunate..when you reach that point..little is going to bring you back....

If a couple doesn't resolve their issues...this will be the result...a marriage worth saving is one where communication is going forth because we DO CARE how the other feels, their wants, needs and desires...because we understand that THEIR HAPPINESS and MOOD affects ours... we live with each other [email protected]#$....
It's just not something to be ignored.. when one is pulling all the weight for resolution while another turns a blind eye... doesn't care, this is not workable either.. 

Both need an attitude of ...come hell or high water, we are going to work it out...so we can get back to Peace.. kissing, flirting and feeling "one" with each other....even if we have to stay up half the night....looking at each other...then finally realizing how silly it all is.... we're not perfect people, we screw up at times...but darn it, we want to get back to the good stuff..being in harmony with each other again...cause our Marriage is worth it !!..

We will have to put our own desires down for the other now & then, we won't always agree...and this should be felt on both sides.... 

Really what the question should be is this....

What level of resentment and unresolved issues is a couple willing to live with .and not leave a marriage over..? 

I can't see many walking out on an emotionally fulfilling marriage....well unless they are so damaged, they have no concept of what the other has brought to their life...


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Yes, this is why I feel the emotional connection is the most important thing in a marriage. From the emotional springs everything else.


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## LeeLee123 (May 9, 2013)

Thanks for posting today. When I read your post, I hear words of unbelief and grief. Your marriage failed and now you doubt the whole concept of marriage. I'm sorry your marriage did not work out like you thought it would. Did you know many marriages end this way - no big issues, no drama, just fizzled out? But I just wanted to say... Marriage is awesome! Marriage is worth saving! I come home to a man who loves me just the way I am, laughs at my jokes and stories, and really likes to spend time with me. There is security in marriage - knowing I have someone like that in my life that has taken a vow to stay committed to me and me to him. We created great kids who make life fun! Is it always roses? No. Do we fight and have painful conflicts? Yes. But a good marriage takes hard work and time! No doubt about it. But most anything you want to see develop and get better takes these things. The marriage relationship is designed where you serve your wife and she serves you. Is this our nature? Nope, not even close. But when we make the effort... usually the marriage develops, ripens... and the two grow closer and closer. Please don't give up on marriage and don't judge marriage by divorce threads -- there are tons and tons of great marriages around you. It is definitely worth it!


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Adeline said:


> I have the same issue in my marriage... there is no focal point for our problematic marriage, other than my husband is unhappy. He can't really articulate why, and I can't figure it out. He also wants to work things out. There hasn't been cheating, and for the most part I am grateful for that. Since it lacks that problem, it does make me feel like my marriage is "worth saving." Ok, so at least I don't have to work through that. But what am I supposed to work through? I don't wish he cheated, but I do wish I had something that was clear and concise that we could work on solving. So, I don't really know whats worse. Actual devastating physical problems, or the absence of them but still a problem remains.


that's how I felt; there was no focal point to work on. I can understand someone being unhappy about something, but when she started saying she wanted a divorce, I basically just went around with a "duh" look on my face and in my mind.

I had done nothing that I had to hang my head about, like cheating or abuse. My wife said there was"nothing to work out." I thought to myself, "you're not kidding there isn't," but I suppose we meant that from different angles.

I've read about the silent suffering and all that stuff, but it still doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Some women will hang through about anything, while other will divorce over a loud burp. I don't get that. 

I wonder if some women are just more tolerant of being with a guy that they may have lost some attraction to. Heck, I see all numbers of couples who don't exactly act like a romance novel; they often act like they can barely stand each other, yet they remain married. While others act like as soon as the attraction dwindles, they have to hit the road or they might start throwing up.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

southbound said:


> I wonder if some women are just more tolerant of being with a guy that they may have lost some attraction to. Heck, I see all numbers of couples who don't exactly act like a romance novel; *they often act like they can barely stand each other, yet they remain married.*


Is that a good thing?


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Southbound, I have an observation. I hope you take it in the vein intended, to maybe offer a new way of looking at things rather than an attack. 

You talk in your posts about what you wanted, what you expected, what you are, what you can do, what you deem the standards are/should be. Do you/did you know the same about your wife?

I think remaining married is less likely to be an acceptable standard to many women. Though it does sound like she kinda swept it under the rug until she was well and soundly done.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

I came to TAM originally seeking new ideas to help in reconnecting with my distant H (27 year marriage) after I had tried everything I could think of. The consensus of the TAM membership, as stated in so many words, was that my marriage was dead and beyond help. There was no cheating, no arguing, no financial issues, but also no talking, very rare sex and very little interaction unless necessary. I deleted my original thread on the subject because it was just too sad.

So I suppose, to answer your original question, my marriage is an example of one that is not “worth saving”.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

NobodySpecial said:


> Southbound, I have an observation. I hope you take it in the vein intended, to maybe offer a new way of looking at things rather than an attack.
> 
> You talk in your posts about what you wanted, what you expected, what you are, what you can do, what you deem the standards are/should be. Do you/did you know the same about your wife?
> 
> I think remaining married is less likely to be an acceptable standard to many women. Though it does sound like she kinda swept it under the rug until she was well and soundly done.


If someone had come to her a while before we divorced saying they wanted a divorce and gave the reasons she gave when she divorced me, she would have thought they had lost their minds. She always spoke highly against divorce. She has sisters who are divorced and had to shuffle the kids around. She always acted as though she thought that was awful.

I guess that is the part that is so difficult to understand. I can't look back and say i saw it coming or that wanting a divorce fit her personality. Thus, it's hard for me to understand how a guy who didn't do anything real bad by most people's standards could have driven that same woman to divorce.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> our marriage was certainly worth saving and I am so grateful to my husband for his decision. I did not deserve a second chance but he gave me one and in our case...it has been worth it.


I think you deserved it. I think you have been a wonderful gift to Mr. Adams for the last 40 years.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Sandfly said:


> For me, only the issue of kids makes a marriage worth saving.
> 
> That can't have been a healthy experience for you. Not knowing and not expecting to be left high and dry must be a drag.
> 
> ...


Who teaches men this drivel? 

Enjoy missing people, no.
Being jealous, no.
Spite, no. 
Falling in love, yes.
Having a holiday, yes.
Buying a cat, no.

Personally I only need one man and it is not one to pay for me. I need (and have) one man that loves me, I love him. The only drama we have is a little bit from his ex wife, on my side I am friends with my ex and my ex and partner get along very well, no drama.


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