# Alcohol and sex



## mountain_minds (Mar 5, 2014)

My wife and I are having massive problems of many kinds currently, but way back when.... when it things were more stable, it seemed that the only way she'd truly be into sex, was if she was drinking. Either drunk or 1/2 drunk.

I mean, at least 3 or 4 glasses of wine.

When in this state - our lovemaking is typically passionate and good. We kiss, touching and making love is good - even great.
My wife may even initiate sex.

Otherwise, without drinking.... there is no kissing, we are not as passionate (or passionate at all).

My wife won't initiate - I must. And doesn't really participate much.

I feel like it's duty sex.

Does anyone else deal with this? 

We are currently undergoing the the paces of marriage counselling, but it's clear that sex is not as big of a deal to her - and not only that she is a survivor of CSA in her past. So, it's complicated.

I seriously don't think my wife will ever be passionate with me without being altered - and I've told her point blank that makes me uncomfortable and sad that she has to take the edge off to really connect with me.

I can get why she does, but still. 

I'd love to have real, passionate morning sex with her (something that has happened enough times in my time with her, I can count on two hands)
But of course not a lot of drinking happening then.

I've been trying to get her to see IC for her past CSA.... but she insists on not going, "because she already has"
and thinks she's in a fine place with it and doesn't want to deal with it more. She thinks the MC is enough.

We've been together 9 years, married for 6 of them. Pretty much always been this way. I'm in my high 30's shes in her mid 40's

I know I'm the HD partner. But, I looked past a lot of her LD issues because I loved other things about her, maybe more than sex. But it's a barrier to us being truly connected.

I've told her point blank that I'm not interested in making love if she's (or if we've) been drinking. I told her I want all of her present.

Is that unfair?


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## IndyTMI (Oct 26, 2012)

That's not unfair at all.

If the MC alone isn't helping the situation, I really don't know what else to tell you other than realize that she has always been like this and isn't going to change.

If you aren't having passionate sex while sober then that's not much of a happy marriage, IMHO.

I would want to see progress, or at least her making an effort or I'd be planning my exit. This is something I would feel strongly about and let her know what is on the line.

I was in somewhat of a situation like this, except it was a different crutch. Things didn't get any better so I have moved on and am now in a relationship that is completely satisfying in every way.
No matter what the situation is, I know my SO wants me and has never turned me down. She actually is an initiator, so it's even better.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

I would say she's obviously inhibited and the alcohol lowers her inhibitions revealing the true sexual woman she is. It's really unfortunate that alcohol is required. 

Good chance that it is related to the CSA. I agree she needs IC. She needs to learn to lower her inhibitions with the man she married. A win win really if she can be successful at it.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

MaritimeGuy said:


> I would say she's obviously inhibited and the alcohol lowers her inhibitions revealing the true sexual woman she is. It's really unfortunate that alcohol is required.
> 
> Good chance that it is related to the CSA. I agree she needs IC. She needs to learn to lower her inhibitions with the man she married. A win win really if she can be successful at it.


Agree. That has to be fairly humiliating to think your spouse can only have sex with you when they are liquored up


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Wolf1974 said:


> Agree. That has to be fairly humiliating to think your spouse can only have sex with you when they are liquored up


I wouldn't look at it as humiliating if the situation is caused by her CSA. If she has trouble pushing back whatever CSA issues she has to enjoy sex, and alcohol helps her do that, it is not HIS failing or any reason for HIM to feel humiliated. She'd be like that with anyone she has sex with.



> I've been trying to get her to see IC for her past CSA.... but she insists on not going, "because she already has"
> and thinks she's in a fine place with it and doesn't want to deal with it more. She thinks the MC is enough.


She may have "dealt with it" back in the day, but she wasn't having sex with her husband back then, so her current sexual issues related to the CSA haven't been dealt with. 

Maybe the MC could suggest some additional therapy for how her CSA issue might be affecting her married sex life? Would she respect the MC's suggestion even if she doesn't pay any mind when you suggest it?

Alternately, if she's so convinced this has nothing to do with her CSA, what does she think it's about? Most people don't have to drink every time they have sex for the sex to be good or passionate.


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## mountain_minds (Mar 5, 2014)

norajane said:


> Maybe the MC could suggest some additional therapy for how her CSA issue might be affecting her married sex life? Would she respect the MC's suggestion even if she doesn't pay any mind when you suggest it?
> 
> Alternately, if she's so convinced this has nothing to do with her CSA, what does she think it's about? Most people don't have to drink every time they have sex for the sex to be good or passionate.


That's what I'm hoping, for.... that the MC is going to push her that direction - but I'm not very confident my MC will. In fact I have a solo meeting with her today to discuss this issue. My MC is more focused on us as a couple, but I've expressed heavy reservations that MC alone will help this. The MC doesn't think this needs to be dealt with first - her CSA -but I do. I think it all is rooted on it.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

mountain_minds said:


> That's what I'm hoping, for.... that the MC is going to push her that direction - but I'm not very confident my MC will. In fact I have a solo meeting with her today to discuss this issue. My MC is more focused on us as a couple, but I've expressed heavy reservations that MC alone will help this. The MC doesn't think this needs to be dealt with first - her CSA -but I do. I think it all is rooted on it.


I think you're right.

I used to be the same way, could only relax into sex when I had been drinking.

Your wife need IC and she needs to understand how her CSA interferes with her ability to relax into arousal. It is arousal inhibition that prevents her from enjoying and wanting sex. 

However, I think you're throwing the baby out with the bath water. It's nothing against you. It's not that you don't so it for her, not at all. She cannot let her guard down unless she's tipsy.

Lots of discussion about her reaching for the lowered inhibitions sober. Lots of discussion about welcoming arousal and reaching for arousal rather than allowing the self protective instincts to over ride the pleasure. Lots of discussion about trust and being vulnerable.

This won't be going away easily.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I can understand a glass of wine or a martini etc but not half drunk to drunk... How is she with a lower dose?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

john117 said:


> I can understand a glass of wine or a martini etc but not half drunk to drunk... How is she with a lower dose?


If she is like I was, a lower dose would only highlight the anxiety until sleep came.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

What if?...

What if your wife was very shy, and never could unwind enough to dance for example. Now what if under the influence she was able to let go and be wild, and actually dance and be all the way into it. Something she couldn't do without.

Now what if she loves to please you, but without the sauce, is not confident in her ability, so it strips her down, but with the sauce she is ravenous and able to treat you how she really wants to.

Yes it is good to want her to be able to control that without the sauce, but what if she just cannot, perhaps in time by training her mind she can, but today and for the forseeable future she needs the sauce.

She loves it, and loves the sex while on it.

Then what are you complaining about again?


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

norajane said:


> I wouldn't look at it as humiliating if the situation is caused by her CSA. If she has trouble pushing back whatever CSA issues she has to enjoy sex, and alcohol helps her do that, it is not HIS failing or any reason for HIM to feel humiliated. She'd be like that with anyone she has sex with.
> 
> She may have "dealt with it" back in the day, but she wasn't having sex with her husband back then, so her current sexual issues related to the CSA haven't been dealt with.
> 
> ...


Well I don't know the guy so was just speculating. Sex and desire is a big part of love and marriage. I was just saying that if my SO had to have several drinks to have sex with me I could find that humiliating regardless of reason. 

I actually experienced this once with a GF who was victim of CSA. This was one of the many things she would do to cope. You always try to convince yourself it's not you it's her but it's hard to do. To much for me as I found out. Her anger toward men in general was more than I could handle


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Interesting, Anon, are you / were you prone to anxiety? 

Low doses of alcohol has some rather interesting effects...


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Nope, not an anxious person at all. It was entirely situational.


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## mountain_minds (Mar 5, 2014)

treyvion said:


> What if?...
> 
> What if your wife was very shy, and never could unwind enough to dance for example. Now what if under the influence she was able to let go and be wild, and actually dance and be all the way into it. Something she couldn't do without.
> 
> ...


If you need to drink to have a full sexual relationship with your spouse, that's fine with you? 

You can't be serious?

So, here's a hypothetical for you - say for heath reasons she CAN'T drink anymore? Then what?

Here's the thing: Most people do use alcohol to take the edge off. I'm not immune to that. But, for something so integral to a good marriage, doesn't it seem like a good idea not to be reliant on drinking to make it happen? 
Maybe I should start encouraging my wife to have a drink in the morning too? You know, to loosen her up? 

Anyhow, your last blip of, "Then what are you complaining about again?" was offensive. I can only imagine it's because you have some sort of unhealthy relationship with alcohol yourself, or because your marital sex life sucks as well to say something so flippant. So, go complain about that.


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## mountain_minds (Mar 5, 2014)

john117 said:


> I can understand a glass of wine or a martini etc but not half drunk to drunk... How is she with a lower dose?


Depends. But, I'd say a few glasses of wine - in the sex dept - is like drinking no wine.

1/2 a bottle or more? That's the starting point, I'd say.


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## mountain_minds (Mar 5, 2014)

Wolf1974 said:


> Well I don't know the guy so was just speculating. Sex and desire is a big part of love and marriage. I was just saying that if my SO had to have several drinks to have sex with me I could find that humiliating regardless of reason.
> 
> I actually experienced this once with a GF who was victim of CSA. This was one of the many things she would do to cope. You always try to convince yourself it's not you it's her but it's hard to do. To much for me as I found out. Her anger toward men in general was more than I could handle


I don't feel humiliated... but it's not a great feeling either. I understand the mechanics of why she wants to numb herself... But, it's hard to have a good, spontaneous sexual relationship when you know that drinking is what's required to make it happen.

Sure, it is hard not to take personally, if I looked at it face value. Knowing the whole picture helps. But it's true it's hard to remember that it's not me she numbs herself for - it's because of the past. Sometimes it's hard to remember that.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

The CSA thing needs to be taken seriously and is almost for sure the root of the problem. You know this already. I've been with a few CSA survivors and it really does affect their sex drives in different ways and not healthy.

what to do about it? it won't solve itself. either some kind of intensive counseling or talking through it lovingly or living with it, or combination of all three.

in my case, i just lived with it, because they refused to deal with it head on. it's very shameful and devastating to them. I separated/divorced for other reasons, but then i'm not high drive.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Mountain...

I realize you are asking a different question of sorts from your other thread, but it's best to stick to one thread. Really, the issues are the same in both threads. You'll get many more responses from people who know the whole story.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/consid...-i-cant-fix-my-wifes-past-abuse-end-near.html

It's very hard to jump around from thread to thread... 

Just sayin...


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

mountain_minds said:


> I don't feel humiliated... but it's not a great feeling either. I understand the mechanics of why she wants to numb herself... *But, it's hard to have a good, spontaneous sexual relationship when you know that drinking is what's required to make it happen.*
> 
> Sure, it is hard not to take personally, if I looked at it face value. Knowing the whole picture helps. But it's true it's hard to remember that it's not me she numbs herself for - it's because of the past. Sometimes it's hard to remember that.


I totally get the spontaneous part, however she is not numbing herself. Well technically yes. If she is the way I was, she is self medicating for the specific situation.

She knows what you want and expect from her and this is the only way she knows how to give it to you. She knows she disappoints you sexually and drinking is the only way she can be the kind of lover who doesn't disappoint you. She is not numbing herself, she is recreating herself to be who you want her to be.

Does that put things in a different light?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

mountain_minds said:


> Depends. But, I'd say a few glasses of wine - in the sex dept - is like drinking no wine.
> 
> 
> 
> 1/2 a bottle or more? That's the starting point, I'd say.



my father drank a bottle of wine a day and lived to 82... He made his own tho, like everyone else. Awesome stuff.

I agree with the 1/2 bottle metric


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## mountain_minds (Mar 5, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> I totally get the spontaneous part, however she is not numbing herself. Well technically yes. If she is the way I was, she is self medicating for the specific situation.
> 
> She knows what you want and expect from her and this is the only way she knows how to give it to you. She knows she disappoints you sexually and drinking is the only way she can be the kind of lover who doesn't disappoint you. She is not numbing herself, she is recreating herself to be who you want her to be.
> 
> Does that put things in a different light?


Yeah, a different light. Worse even. I drive her to do it...


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## mountain_minds (Mar 5, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> Mountain...
> 
> I realize you are asking a different question of sorts from your other thread, but it's best to stick to one thread. Really, the issues are the same in both threads. You'll get many more responses from people who know the whole story.
> 
> ...


Thanks for pointing that out -but you're right, this is a different question. I wanted to know what was thought of this particular issue. In my marriage the issues are, how should I put it... manifold?
I guess I wanted to spare the commenters the agony of the entire picture and whittle down a bit.

But in the meantime, this is how my wife wants to connect with me, and has connected with me best in the past. It turns me off, to know shes got to drink to want to really go to bed with me. Sometimes I'm so buried in the issues I don't know how big of a deal this is. I think it's a big one.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

treyvion said:


> What if?...
> 
> What if your wife was very shy, and never could unwind enough to dance for example. Now what if under the influence she was able to let go and be wild, and actually dance and be all the way into it. Something she couldn't do without.
> 
> ...


You know... there is a thought here.. I used to have to sing with anti anxiety meds AND a beta blocker so I didn't lose my wind to nerves. I did that long enough that today, I need nothing to sing because I'm no longer nervous about it. That took about seven years. Just info for your decision process if it helps.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

Feel for you, OP. Wife mentioned the other day that it's been a year since we last had sex. Said we need to work on this, but in next breath stated that she needs to be a bit tipsy in order to be in the mood. However, she won't drink when we go out as she's afraid that she won't be ready to deal with the kids should they wake up. Classic Catch-22 - needs to drink to loosen up for sex, but won't drink for fear of getting tipsy. This is why men give up on sex.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

To the original poster, I am so sorry for the things you are going threw. Who ever robbed your wife's sexuality also robbed yours, and had no idea who all it would affect. 

I am in the very same position as your wife. I really REALLY don't like sex. I to have CSA in my past. I love my husband, I really do. I clean house, cook, pack his lunch, I do anything I can to make his life easier on a daily basis, but I cannot commit to physical contact. I know it hurts my husband. He has told me it does. I have drink to improve the mood and engage in sex. It helps some. I don't like to drink, but I do love my husband and if that is what I have to do to prove my love to him then that is what I will do. People have suggested pot to lengthen the affects of euphoria and stay in the mood, but I don't think I am willing to go there. Then again to prove to my H I love him, if it were legal in my state, I might would. I really do love him, I just can't get the CSA out of my head. 

I see you mentioned you were in MC. It took me about a year in MC with my H to bring this up with my T. I am just not a very trusting individual. The marriage T has worked on this with me, since it does affect US. She is helping to save OUR marriage. 

Please know that no woman ever wants to remember her abuse. No woman chooses to remember the abuse, it just sneaks in there somehow and takes over. Once it does you are so helpless to do anything about it. 

With out alcohol I often end up crying during sex or after sex and I don't know why. So my H can kind pick the outcome. Having sex with a half lit wife or having sex with a crying wife. Which would you choose. On the up side, you can know that she is doing it FOR you, as a gift of love to you. At least that is why and how I do it. 

My H is not thrilled about sex while I'm drinking. He feels like "OMG, my wife has to get half drunk to even have sex with me" but that is not it. It is more of a " I want to have sex with you and not ruin it and dissociate or cry, so for you I am willing to drink so we can both share this this time in our life" It is amazing what one will do to to make things "normal" because for survivors sex is not normal.


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## scientia (Aug 27, 2012)

mountain_minds said:


> My wife and I are having massive problems of many kinds currently


I answered in your other thread.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

I miss the days my wife drank a little, tipsy sex with her back in the day was exceptional. The only good sex we have anymore is after a huge fight, she goes porn star. Sadly we don't even fight anymore


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## FemBot (May 1, 2013)

Some women use alcohol to not only relax but to also hold themselves less accountable for their sexuality. The drinking made me do it type of thing. Deep down they want to be sexual but are not able to "go there" for a variety of reasons. Alcohol makes them less accountable for their actions. If they can blame something else they can dissasociate from the act itself and not see themselves as being "bad" or doing something "wrong".


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## soulseer (Jul 26, 2013)

FemBot said:


> Some women use alcohol to not only relax but to also hold themselves less accountable for their sexuality. The drinking made me do it type of thing. Deep down they want to be sexual but are not able to "go there" for a variety of reasons. Alcohol makes them less accountable for their actions. If they can blame something else they can dissasociate from the act itself and not see themselves as being "bad" or doing something "wrong".


I do believe people use illegal stimulant drugs for similar reasons.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## soulseer (Jul 26, 2013)

Alcphol does very little for my sexual self expression.

I tend to feel as though I would like to have sex right at the beginning of alcohols effects. However I do not have desire to initiate. I actually lose interest in sex very soon after consuming alcohol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mountain_minds (Mar 5, 2014)

Big Mama said:


> I am in the very same position as your wife. I really REALLY don't like sex. I to have CSA in my past. I love my husband, I really do. I clean house, cook, pack his lunch, I do anything I can to make his life easier on a daily basis, but I cannot commit to physical contact. ............. I really do love him, I just can't get the CSA out of my head.


Big Mama,

Thanks for sharing that. I must ask though, why don't you consider more therapy for yourself alone - to try to tackle the CSA issue? I know it's not trivial, and extremely easy for me to say....
But don't you also want to find a way not to have this thing that happened to you not impede your chance for a good relationship with your husband?

I only ask, because it seems a half measure - to go to MC alone. And is pretty similar to my W's response to dealing with her CSA.

In my case, it feels as if my W is saying, "You have to love me, and also love the fact that I won't ever fully deal with this."

I don't mean to sound harsh -because I know full well how excruciating this has to be for you. But my angle as a "secondary survivor" of CSA wants to see how it can honestly be dealt with and not masked with the use substance...


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

I hope to get more T for the CSA stuff. At the moment, I am trying very hard to keep my marriage in tact. After that gets more stable I certainly anticipate lots of individual T.


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## mountain_minds (Mar 5, 2014)

Big Mama said:


> I hope to get more T for the CSA stuff. At the moment, I am trying very hard to keep my marriage in tact. After that gets more stable I certainly anticipate lots of individual T.


Big Mama, 

Coming from a relationship on that sounds like is in same shape yours is in -consider that getting IC might further your relationship with you husband. Might be REALLY hard to stabilize your relationship with just MC - consider IC in conjunction with it. 

I cannot fathom how difficult it must be to even begin to uncover what happened - but the sooner you are able to do it, the more your marriage stands a better chance.

I'm sorry you're dealing with what you are. Coming from the other side of this stuff - the "secondary survivor" angle - it just sucks. For you obviously, for your husband. I bet he's hurting more than you know too. Not that your pain and his are some sort of competition, but this crisis is so wide reaching. 

I am advocating public stoning for people that abuse children. It seems humane enough for what they did.


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

Nothing makes me happier then to her of stories of testicular cancer and such things that happen to occur in those who have abused children. 

Cancer sucks and I wouldn't wish that on anybody. But in cases like that it is so totally deserved. I have read of several people who there offenders ended up with cancer related to testicular cancer, mouth cancer, and such. 

Hope I didn't offend anyone who has suffered those type of cancers totally undeserved. Like I said I wouldn't wish cancer on anyone. (for the most part)


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