# Fair/reasonable or not?



## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

I don't have any overall updates, and not looking for a lecture OR sympathies, I know I am consciously making a choice to stay 'status quo' with my relationship. I just want to know if this scenario below is fair/reasonable or not. 

Scenario: So, with 2018 coming to a close, we have been intimate ONCE in the last 12 months. He says that area of our lives would improve if I would just admit that I am the reason for our relationship not going well in that area. I finally 'caved' and told him everything in the R was my fault several months ago even though I didn't truly believe it, as that is the only way he said he would allow that part of our lives to resume. I KNOW, don't beat me down for it - I did it to SEE if it would work, trying to be the bigger person and to move us forward. After I 'admitted' to me asking for too much affection, wanting more than he could give, etc., he made an effort towards intimacy and I thought we were on the right track, until................. As a caveat to that, he said that he would NOT be initiating again, if I did not initiate FIRST. I started feeling like it was a 'your turn/my turn' thing and so far, since that one time several months back, I haven't initiated anything and neither has he, so we are at a standstill. He won't do anything again until I do, and I am feeling like 3 months has passed and he just flat out could care less. Am I wrong in that I just am not feeling it anymore? If the only way he will initiate is if I do first, is that WRONG or am I the one in the wrong being selfish for not 'doing my part' by initiating once to every time he does?? It doesn't seem like it should be THIS hard, when it comes to that part of a relationship.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

LilMissSunshine said:


> I don't have any overall updates, and not looking for a lecture OR sympathies, I know I am consciously making a choice to stay 'status quo' with my relationship. I just want to know if this scenario below is fair/reasonable or not.
> 
> Scenario: So, with 2018 coming to a close, we have been intimate ONCE in the last 12 months. He says that area of our lives would improve if I would just admit that I am the reason for our relationship not going well in that area. I finally 'caved' and told him everything in the R was my fault several months ago even though I didn't truly believe it, as that is the only way he said he would allow that part of our lives to resume. I KNOW, don't beat me down for it - I did it to SEE if it would work, trying to be the bigger person and to move us forward. After I 'admitted' to me asking for too much affection, wanting more than he could give, etc., he made an effort towards intimacy and I thought we were on the right track, until................. As a caveat to that, he said that he would NOT be initiating again, if I did not initiate FIRST. I started feeling like it was a 'your turn/my turn' thing and so far, since that one time several months back, I haven't initiated anything and neither has he, so we are at a standstill. He won't do anything again until I do, and I am feeling like 3 months has passed and he just flat out could care less. Am I wrong in that I just am not feeling it anymore? If the only way he will initiate is if I do first, is that WRONG or am I the one in the wrong being selfish for not 'doing my part' by initiating once to every time he does?? It doesn't seem like it should be THIS hard, when it comes to that part of a relationship.


The bottom line is if you've decided to stay married to your spouse then you are essentially agreeing to ALL of their terms. That means you agreed by default to initiate sex if you want it. 

It's no different than a job. You take up employment knowing the company policies. You could look for a different place of employment if you don't like their policies but you won't be changing policy.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

LilMissSunshine said:


> I don't have any overall updates, and not looking for a lecture OR sympathies, I know I am consciously making a choice to stay 'status quo' with my relationship. I just want to know if this scenario below is fair/reasonable or not.
> 
> Scenario: So, with 2018 coming to a close, we have been intimate ONCE in the last 12 months. He says that area of our lives would improve if I would just admit that I am the reason for our relationship not going well in that area. I finally 'caved' and told him everything in the R was my fault several months ago even though I didn't truly believe it, as that is the only way he said he would allow that part of our lives to resume. I KNOW, don't beat me down for it - I did it to SEE if it would work, trying to be the bigger person and to move us forward. After I 'admitted' to me asking for too much affection, wanting more than he could give, etc., he made an effort towards intimacy and I thought we were on the right track, until................. As a caveat to that, he said that he would NOT be initiating again, if I did not initiate FIRST. I started feeling like it was a 'your turn/my turn' thing and so far, since that one time several months back, I haven't initiated anything and neither has he, so we are at a standstill. He won't do anything again until I do, and I am feeling like 3 months has passed and he just flat out could care less. Am I wrong in that I just am not feeling it anymore? If the only way he will initiate is if I do first, is that WRONG or am I the one in the wrong being selfish for not 'doing my part' by initiating once to every time he does?? It doesn't seem like it should be THIS hard, when it comes to that part of a relationship.


Why haven't you initiated sex?


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## Clockwork (May 2, 2018)

LilMissSunshine said:


> I don't have any overall updates, and not looking for a lecture OR sympathies, I know I am consciously making a choice to stay 'status quo' with my relationship. I just want to know if this scenario below is fair/reasonable or not.
> 
> Scenario: So, with 2018 coming to a close, we have been intimate ONCE in the last 12 months. He says that area of our lives would improve if I would just admit that I am the reason for our relationship not going well in that area. I finally 'caved' and told him everything in the R was my fault several months ago even though I didn't truly believe it, as that is the only way he said he would allow that part of our lives to resume. I KNOW, don't beat me down for it - I did it to SEE if it would work, trying to be the bigger person and to move us forward. After I 'admitted' to me asking for too much affection, wanting more than he could give, etc., he made an effort towards intimacy and I thought we were on the right track, until................. As a caveat to that, he said that he would NOT be initiating again, if I did not initiate FIRST. I started feeling like it was a 'your turn/my turn' thing and so far, since that one time several months back, I haven't initiated anything and neither has he, so we are at a standstill. He won't do anything again until I do, and I am feeling like 3 months has passed and he just flat out could care less. Am I wrong in that I just am not feeling it anymore? If the only way he will initiate is if I do first, is that WRONG or am I the one in the wrong being selfish for not 'doing my part' by initiating once to every time he does?? It doesn't seem like it should be THIS hard, when it comes to that part of a relationship.


Just a bit of backstory here. Is there a reason you only had sex once in 12 months? Was there some mistrust in your past? Cheating? Lying? etc. It just seems weird that your husband, and even you, both seem to have this pride in not being the one to start it. I initiate sex 85-90% of the time and the only reason my wife doesn't do it more is because I beat her to it. The result is the same, we end up enjoying it with each other. No big deal who starts it, is it? 

Or a more sinister way of thinking, is there another woman involved? This sounds like something that a man who is cheating might do. Not saying he is, but I don't know a lot of husbands that are content with sex once every 365 days.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Because he really isn't that interested in it and I feel like he is only doing it to appease me. It's like asking someone to buy you a birthday gift - if I have to ask, it kind of just defeats the purpose. I got tired of years of having to try to get him to show some interest. It's just gotten so old now that I am worn down by it all. If he can't be enthusiastic about it every now and then, it takes away any interest I have. Am I wrong in my thinking? I ask honestly because if I SHOULD be doing something more about it, I need to know that.............


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

YES. Makes sense. I am finding more and more that I don't like the terms. Thinking I can live with them and at some point realizing I may be able to for now, but another 30-40 years????



Lila said:


> The bottom line is if you've decided to stay married to your spouse then you are essentially agreeing to ALL of their terms. That means you agreed by default to initiate sex if you want it.
> 
> It's no different than a job. You take up employment knowing the company policies. You could look for a different place of employment if you don't like their policies but you won't be changing policy.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

There is 100% no other woman. He works from home and rarely goes out. He is just very L/D and honestly has untreated low-T which he refuses to treat (was tested several years ago under "duress"). I am just worn out from always being the one interested and now am actually finding myself not willing to be the one to initiate if HIS heart isn't in it. It's like begging someone to buy you a gift for your bday. If you have to ask, why bother??? I was always the one asking for years and finally just got tired of it.............if he isn't interested enough to step up, then do I really WANT to be the one to do it? His heart isn't in it when he finally gives in.




Clockwork said:


> Just a bit of backstory here. Is there a reason you only had sex once in 12 months? Was there some mistrust in your past? Cheating? Lying? etc. It just seems weird that your husband, and even you, both seem to have this pride in not being the one to start it. I initiate sex 85-90% of the time and the only reason my wife doesn't do it more is because I beat her to it. The result is the same, we end up enjoying it with each other. No big deal who starts it, is it?
> 
> Or a more sinister way of thinking, is there another woman involved? This sounds like something that a man who is cheating might do. Not saying he is, but I don't know a lot of husbands that are content with sex once every 365 days.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Because he really isn't that interested in it and I feel like he is only doing it to appease me. It's like asking someone to buy you a birthday gift - if I have to ask, it kind of just defeats the purpose. I got tired of years of having to try to get him to show some interest. It's just gotten so old now that I am worn down by it all. If he can't be enthusiastic about it every now and then, it takes away any interest I have. Am I wrong in my thinking? I ask honestly because if I SHOULD be doing something more about it, I need to know that.....



MattMatt said:


> Why haven't you initiated sex?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Let me ask you, a cursory look at your posting history shows that you have been posting about this problem for 3 years. Is it reasonable to expect this is going to change after you asking for it for 3 years? Time for you to accept this is who he is, he doesn't want to do it. After you do that then decide if you want to stay.

Please explain what you mean by R however. Who cheated?


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

R? Not sure what you mean. Noone has cheated.



sokillme said:


> Let me ask you, a cursory look at your posting history shows that you have been posting about this problem for 3 years. Is it reasonable to expect this is going to change after you asking for it for 3 years? Time for you to accept this is who he is, he doesn't want to do it. After you do that then decide if you want to stay.
> 
> Please explain what you mean by R however. Who cheated?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

LilMissSunshine said:


> R? Not sure what you mean. Noone has cheated.





> I finally 'caved' and told him everything in the R was my fault several months ago even though I didn't truly believe it


I guess you mean relationship? R is usually short for reconciliation around here.

Bottom line he is not going to change. Maybe you should, but I don't necessarily mean stay married, that could mean stop being afraid to leave.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

ohhhh..........I see. Yes, I meant relationship........sorry. I am doing a bad thing by not just initiating even though I know he really isn't into it? Is there something wrong with WANTING the other person to be the initiator and to show genuine interest? If I never do, then we're at a stalemate. And if I do, I can tell his heart isn't really in it. Which is worse?



sokillme said:


> I guess you mean relationship? R is usually short for reconciliation around here.
> 
> Bottom line he is not going to change. Maybe you should, but I don't necessarily mean stay married, that could mean stop being afraid to leave.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

You have been living in a sexless marriage. You post about the same thing often (not judging or lecturing-just stating a fact.) 

Will you live this way for the rest of your marriage? If so, you need to go belly up and accept it 100%. If not, you must accept the fact that he will not change and leave.

I feel for you-I do. I know I've told you before- I had a relationship with someone who had anger issues (that's putting it mildly-he was flat out abusive) and I hate seeing you waste your life with someone who is not only blatantly REFUSING to meet your needs, but who you're afraid of. You're twisting yourself into a pretzel yet again "one more time" (your words) to try to make this work. Hon, That's no way to live!


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

WHy won't he go back and see the doctor?


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

LilMissSunshine said:


> There is 100% no other woman. He works from home and rarely goes out. He is just very L/D and honestly has untreated low-T which he refuses to treat (was tested several years ago under "duress"). I am just worn out from always being the one interested and now am actually finding myself not willing to be the one to initiate if HIS heart isn't in it. It's like begging someone to buy you a gift for your bday. If you have to ask, why bother??? I was always the one asking for years and finally just got tired of it.............if he isn't interested enough to step up, then do I really WANT to be the one to do it? His heart isn't in it when he finally gives in.


 @LilMissSunshine, I felt a sense of deja Vu reading your post above. Read my thread on testosterone and E.D. and you'll see how close our stories resemble each other. 

I tried everything under the sun to get my ex to be more affectionate and sexual. He refused to see a doctor until I gave him an ultimatum after almost 4 years of dealing with all the bs. That was almost 3 years ago and the beginning of the end. 

He built up resentment at my trying to "fix" him. He refused to take E.D. meds or TRT for low T (he wasn't clinical but it had dropped like a brick over a 3 year period). 

He asked for a divorce earlier this year. His reason was that he "fell out of love" and he'd "emotionally disconnected". He was also having an exit affair to help his transition. 

So as you can see, been there done that. All I can say is this. If you want to stay married to him, then stop expecting more from him that what he's giving you right now. Accept that he will never meet your need for a passionate relationship. 

Find the good things in him that will make staying worth while to you. Only you can decide if his good qualities outweigh the bad one.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Lucy, what's really confusing me now is that he says if *I* will initiate, it doesn't have to be that way..............but if I don't, well, then we will go on as is with a platonic relationship. It is the CONNECTION that i am missing, if I have to be the one to get things started, I am not getting any sense that he is into it and is doing it just to appease me. THAT is worse than NOTHING happening at all. Am I wrong for thinking that? OR................should I 'fix' me and just bite the bullet and be the initiator?? It wouldn't be sexless if I would just initiate..........but I can't make myself happy with that arrangement. What I am asking is am I out of line for NOT wanting to do that? Thank you for not lecturing .

PS - I am TRYING to accept it and THINK I can, then a few more lonely months go by and I drop back down into a depression wanting a 'real' relationship.



lucy999 said:


> You have been living in a sexless marriage. You post about the same thing often (not judging or lecturing-just stating a fact.)
> 
> Will you live this way for the rest of your marriage? If so, you need to go belly up and accept it 100%. If not, you must accept the fact that he will not change and leave.
> 
> I feel for you-I do. I know I've told you before- I had a relationship with someone who had anger issues (that's putting it mildly-he was flat out abusive) and I hate seeing you waste your life with someone who is not only blatantly REFUSING to meet your needs, but who you're afraid of. You're twisting yourself into a pretzel yet again "one more time" (your words) to try to make this work. Hon, That's no way to live!


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

LilMissSunshine said:


> ohhhh..........I see. Yes, I meant relationship........sorry. I am doing a bad thing by not just initiating even though I know he really isn't into it? Is there something wrong with WANTING the other person to be the initiator and to show genuine interest? If I never do, then we're at a stalemate. And if I do, I can tell his heart isn't really in it. Which is worse?


Nope. How can you have true intimacy with someone who doesn't want it with you. 

Though let me couch that. Say he said to you, look I need you to be more sexual with me because we are kind of stuck in this no-sexual relationship right now and I need you to help me change the dynamic. Then I would say go and be sexual. 

Or if he said, look I need you to start dressing more sexy around the house (when appropriate) again so we can change the dynamic. Then dress sexy.

Or even if he said, look I also get the idea that you are not into me so we are going to have to work on this stuff. (Maybe his confidence is shot). Then work on it. 

With all that I would say yes you should initiate sometimes. You should do that anyway. In my mind you need to get to a place where it's just natural for you both to be sexual with each other. 

But the point of sex is intimacy, and that means sexual intimacy. You can't have that without vulnerability. When one partner never opens themselves up to be vulnerable by initiating I think it creates an imbalance.

Again to couch that a little bit, someone still needs to make the first move. But your husband sounds like he doesn't want to work with you at all. 

No one except adolescent boys wants to have sex with someone who is not into them, at least in a long term relationship. I mean I get it sometimes you might not be in the mood and your partner goes through the motions just to help you out. That is one thing, but no interest is like long term rejection. I just don't see how this gets better if he is not willing to work with you.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

No I don't think you Are out of line for not being happy with the arrangement of always initiating. I have a caveat with that though. I am pretty submissive in bed. I am not always fond of initiating, so clearly I have a biased opinion. Personally, I prefer to have a shared initiation arrangement. We all want to feel pursued and lusted after regardless of gender.

But at the end of the day, if you are not happy with it, you are not happy with it.

Putting all of this LD business aside, I am not a fan of your husband because of his anger issues and he keeps moving the goal posts. He lays all the burden on your feet. 1st, he gets you to wrongly admit that this is all your fault and then he'll start having sex with you. Now he ups the ante and says that things will get better if you are always the one to initiate. 

What's next? That you can only initiate on Tuesdays, hop around in a circle, say his name 3 times, and then sing the star spangled banner? Sounds ridiculous doesn't it? Because it IS ridiculous. I don't like all of his ultimatums. When will it stop?


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

No, he isn't saying any of those things..............the fact he hasn't even ASKED in 3 months why I haven't initiated seems pretty telling to me. If there was any interest on his end, I would have thought he would have asked me "hey, when are you going to get something going" or push me in that direction (since he isn't going to just initiate himself). It truly makes no sense, he just isn't interested is my gut feel. Whether it's due to the low-T which he refuses to fix (says there are too many other 'risks' that go with it - which I have printed out materials for him to read that say otherwise) or something else, doesn't matter.............I just get the gut feel there is no interest. And me initiating will make something happen, but not something he really wants - more just an appeasement. You are right, how can you have that intimacy with someone who doesn't want it with you?

So even with him NOT doing anything similar to what you have just given as examples, I SHOULD try to initiate anyways? He WILL "work with me" but what that means is that he will comply if I initiate - not necessarily enthusiastically, but he will comply.



sokillme said:


> Nope. How can you have true intimacy with someone who doesn't want it with you.
> 
> Though let me couch that. Say he said to you, look I need you to be more sexual with me because we are kind of stuck in this no-sexual relationship right now and I need you to help me change the dynamic. Then I would say go and be sexual.
> 
> ...


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Wow. So you can definitely relate. I keep trying to look at the positives and to overlook the physical stuff, but it is HARD. My love language is physical touch. It is HARD being like this. I think in the past it has been easier because our kids were younger and needed more hands-on so I had something else to focus on. Now that one is out of the house and the other an older teen, the blatant lack of affection is just glaring. I guess I can either find a new distraction and focus on the positives, or just decide it isn't worth it. There IS a lot of good in this relationship, but dang..............I don't want a roommate or another friend. My inner-self is just screaming for a relationship that is more physical.




Lila said:


> @LilMissSunshine, I felt a sense of deja Vu reading your post above. Read my thread on testosterone and E.D. and you'll see how close our stories resemble each other.
> 
> I tried everything under the sun to get my ex to be more affectionate and sexual. He refused to see a doctor until I gave him an ultimatum after almost 4 years of dealing with all the bs. That was almost 3 years ago and the beginning of the end.
> 
> ...


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Yes, I understand that caveat............... and on the other issue, YES, anger issues are the second of the two problems in this relationship (not sure if either is worse than the other), so there is that. I actually DID try to initiate once since this discussion occurred, and he said it seemed too "forced" and to try it again when I was in a better frame of mind...........NEVER thought of it again until reading your last paragraph..............it just dawned on me, it does seem like he is putting all of these stipulations on it................and what WILL be next? WHY on earth should it be THIS difficult to get your spouse to be intimate with you???? I just don't see that it should be THIS difficult - should it???

Dang. Seeing this in writing does make it seem ridiculous. What has happened to my sense of courage and confidence?? I used to be such a confident and independent person, I really did. I am embarrassed that I cannot seem to get unstuck even in reading the ridiculousness.



lucy999 said:


> No I don't think you Are out of line for not being happy with the arrangement of always initiating. I have a caveat with that though. I am pretty submissive in bed. I am not always fond of initiating, so clearly I have a biased opinion. Personally, I prefer to have a shared initiation arrangement. We all want to feel pursued and lusted after regardless of gender.
> 
> But at the end of the day, if you are not happy with it, you are not happy with it.
> 
> ...


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

If you decided to become a prostitute tomorrow, guys would be lining up paying you good money to have sex with them and then coming back for more after the next payday. 

think about that for a moment. (No, I am not suggesting you become a hooker)

When you think about what men go through and what they are willing to do to have love and sex life, then why are you wasting away with someone that simply doesn't have it in him?????


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Oh gosh. It was NOT my intent to embarrass you. Please know that. I'm so sorry. I wanted to open your eyes. I think I did. I'm glad for that.

It pained me to read your question of what happened to your self confidence and Independence? I think you know the answer. 

I became a totally different person when I was with my abusive ex boyfriend. My boss saw it, my friends saw it. My family didnt see it because they live in a different state and they didnt know until after I left him.

I stopped the things I loved. I used to bake for people all the time. I hadn't baked in years. After I left him,I started baking again. My friends told me the "old Lucy" was back and they were glad. I bake alot now. It's my expression of love and caring and kindness.

I hope you can find a way back to the old Lil Miss Sunshine. My heart is so heavy for you.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

LilMissSunshine said:


> WHY on earth should it be THIS difficult to get your spouse to be intimate with you???? I just don't see that it should be THIS difficult - should it???
> 
> Dang. Seeing this in writing does make it seem ridiculous. What has happened to my sense of courage and confidence?? I used to be such a confident and independent person, I really did.


This is what being with someone who doesn't want you and refuses you does to a person. It is soul crushing and strips you of your self esteem and humanity. 

This situation is what is causing you to lose your courage and confidence and self esteem. 

This is a toxic situation that is crushing you and poisoning you and turning you into someone you never wanted to be.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

LOL, I definitely didn't think of it that way. He has given me a good life in other ways, and I do have the youngest child I am trying to raise to fly the nest in a couple of years. I guess that's why................but the lack of physical relationship is eating away at me day by day. I know, it's my choice by staying................



oldshirt said:


> If you decided to become a prostitute tomorrow, guys would be lining up paying you good money to have sex with them and then coming back for more after the next payday.
> 
> think about that for a moment. (No, I am not suggesting you become a hooker)
> 
> When you think about what men go through and what they are willing to do to have love and sex life, then why are you wasting away with someone that simply doesn't have it in him?????


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

NOOOO, you didn't embarrass me..................I made my own realization just reading. There have been some things I have stopped doing as well, though really hadn't thought about that either...............just figured I had gotten burned out on some of it, but maybe it's because I have been fighting internally with all of this other.............and YES, reading has opened my eyes, which is a good thing. I really did need some input on this latest "proposal" he had about the initiating..........I keep thinking if I did XYZ, treated him better, lightened up (he says 'you used to be so care-free), focused more on the positives, then something would change. I just can't see to find what that "thing" is..............and that is what is haunting me ("Could I be doing more?") and if I leave, then I'll always wonder if I COULD have done more..........




lucy999 said:


> Oh gosh. It was NOT my intent to embarrass you. Please know that. I'm so sorry. I wanted to open your eyes. I think I did. I'm glad for that.
> 
> It pained me to read your question of what happened to your self confidence and Independence? I think you know the answer.
> 
> ...


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

LilMissSunshine said:


> and that is what is haunting me ("Could I be doing more?") and if I leave, then I'll always wonder if I COULD have done more..........


I get it. I have a close friend who was married to a serial cheater. Now I know her and your situation is apples and oranges, that your husband is certainly not a serial cheater. But she said the very same thing you are saying now. She did not want to leave prematurely because she would forever be asking herself, could I have done more? So I do understand your line of thinking.

I was talking to another friend just yesterday about my 18 year old stepdaughter who for some reason just can't pull the plug on her boyfriend treating her badly. Normally she is quick to cut young men treating her badly out of her life. But for some reason she just can't pull the trigger on this one. 

I told my friend that I realize everyone has their own fuse and some are longer than others. And she said to me, Yes, but you don't want to have too long of a fuse to where you end up hanging yourself with it. 

Something to think about.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

GOOD WAY OF LOOKING AT IT! I keep setting timelines and moving them when one passes and nothing has changed. I need to make this coming year the year one way or another I commit to staying and being happy 'as is' or making a change. I absolutely cannot go another year like these last few. The indecision is what is killing me and my health -mental and physical. I appreciate your input on all of this!



lucy999 said:


> I get it. I have a close friend who was married to a serial cheater. Now I know her and your situation is apples and oranges, that your husband is certainly not a serial cheater. But she said the very same thing you are saying now. She did not want to leave prematurely because she would forever be asking herself, could I have done more? So I do understand your line of thinking.
> 
> I was talking to another friend just yesterday about my 18 year old stepdaughter who for some reason just can't pull the plug on her boyfriend treating her badly. Normally she is quick to cut young men treating her badly out of her life. But for some reason she just can't pull the trigger on this one.
> 
> ...


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

For whatever reason, he's just not interested and apparently doesn't want to try to be interested. It's a very common problem, unfortunately. Some stay in marriages like yours. Some don't. What will life be like for you when your youngest child leaves? Think about that.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

I am convinced it is the low T, but nothing I can say will get him in there to get it treated. He has gained about 100 pounds over the last few years and honestly, i think is also depressed (which if I even mention that word, he blows up - which is an understatement). When the youngest leaves, that means what time I spend with the child will be 'open' with even more glaring in front of me if something doesn't change. I can't MAKE him get treatment, if that's what it is (and if it isn't that, well, I still can't MAKE him feel something he doesn't).



Openminded said:


> For whatever reason, he's just not interested and apparently doesn't want to try to be interested. It's a very common problem, unfortunately. Some stay in marriages like yours. Some don't. What will life be like for you when your youngest child leaves? Think about that.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I am going to throw this out there as food for thought.

I am married and have not divorced so I cannot speak from actual experience of divorcing with minor children.

However I had several LTRs, a few of which were quite serious, and a number of lesser relationships before getting married. (I was 31 years old when I married, so I had quite a bit of adult life experience before marrying)

I have broken up with a few people and have been dumped by the rest.

After breaking up I have never once, not once, looked back and wondered if I couldda/shouldda done more.

If I broke up with someone it was because I was dissatisfied with them and no longer wanted to be in a relationship with them. Never once did I second guess myself or lose sleep that I couldda/shouldda done more. If I broke up with them it was because they were not doing enough for me.

In the cases where I was dumped, I was being a good, faithful BF doing my due diligence and if I wasn't good enough for them, then I wasn't good enough for them.

In all cases I may have been sad and bummed that it didn't work out and I may have shed a tear on my pillow cause it always hurts getting dumped. 

Be never did I lose a moments sleep worrying about if I did enough or should have done more to save the relationship.

In fact in 20/20 hindsight, in almost every case I wished I had ripped off the Bandaid sooner. 

When people dump people, it's because they don't want to be with them anymore. It's not because they themselves are not doing enough.

The only cases I know of where people come crawling back saying they made a mistake was when they were cheating and left their partner for the AP and then the AP turned out to not be what they thought. 

Dumping someone because they aren't meeting your needs and not even trying to, rarely ever results in regret.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

Some men in ignorance don't want to admit to low testosterone (not considered manly), however, if they had diabetes, they would take insulin. Obesity is another killer of sexual desire. Y'all have been arguing about this for YEARS. If you initiate, another issue will spew forth.

I think that underlying having sex or not, that this is, for him, a control issue. He will continue to always change the rules as someone has already said. He is playing a game of 'gotcha' and you don't even know the rules. Think of how much of your life he controls by this--no sex, no intimacy, no feelings of connection or romance. Sex strengthens the intimacy bond and he does not want you to have that power over him.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Thanks, Oldshirt. I don't think I have ever felt like this in any other relationship, and looking at the root of why that is, I think it's because with those, I was younger and had a lot of years left, lol. Not that I feel old at 52, but just thinking about starting over at this age makes me question if it isn't just worth it to try and find a way to be satisifed. I know I am the only one who can resolve this, but am truly struggling with the starting over at this age thing.



oldshirt said:


> I am going to throw this out there as food for thought.
> 
> I am married and have not divorced so I cannot speak from actual experience of divorcing with minor children.
> 
> ...


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Totally agree - if it was another medical issue, there would not be as much resistance. I think I have no choice but to bring it up and see where we stand, knowing that if I get brushed off again or worse, he flies into one of his fits of anger about it, then that tells me it truly is never going to change. I don't want to feel like I can't bring up an issue that is important to me for fear of anger -and it is important to me. Yet I feel like i need to bring this up one last time before we venture into another new year. I need some indication from him once and for all as to whether HE is willing to take some ownership of this and not just tell me "well, you initiate more and then I will"..................do you really think it is a control issue? My mother and brother have thought for years he was very controlling, though I never saw it myself.



sunsetmist said:


> Some men in ignorance don't want to admit to low testosterone (not considered manly), however, if they had diabetes, they would take insulin. Obesity is another killer of sexual desire. Y'all have been arguing about this for YEARS. If you initiate, another issue will spew forth.
> 
> I think that underlying having sex or not, that this is, for him, a control issue. He will continue to always change the rules as someone has already said. He is playing a game of 'gotcha' and you don't even know the rules. Think of how much of your life he controls by this--no sex, no intimacy, no feelings of connection or romance. Sex strengthens the intimacy bond and he does not want you to have that power over him.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

LilMissSunshine said:


> I don't have any overall updates, and not looking for a lecture OR sympathies, I know I am consciously making a choice to stay 'status quo' with my relationship. I just want to know if this scenario below is fair/reasonable or not.
> 
> Scenario: So, with 2018 coming to a close, we have been intimate ONCE in the last 12 months. He says that area of our lives would improve if I would just admit that I am the reason for our relationship not going well in that area. I finally 'caved' and told him everything in the R was my fault several months ago even though I didn't truly believe it, as that is the only way he said he would allow that part of our lives to resume. I KNOW, don't beat me down for it - I did it to SEE if it would work, trying to be the bigger person and to move us forward. After I 'admitted' to me asking for too much affection, wanting more than he could give, etc., he made an effort towards intimacy and I thought we were on the right track, until................. As a caveat to that, he said that he would NOT be initiating again, if I did not initiate FIRST. I started feeling like it was a 'your turn/my turn' thing and so far, since that one time several months back, I haven't initiated anything and neither has he, so we are at a standstill. He won't do anything again until I do, and I am feeling like 3 months has passed and he just flat out could care less. Am I wrong in that I just am not feeling it anymore? If the only way he will initiate is if I do first, is that WRONG or am I the one in the wrong being selfish for not 'doing my part' by initiating once to every time he does?? It doesn't seem like it should be THIS hard, when it comes to that part of a relationship.


You are wrong, but not the way that you think you are... 

1) caving was a bad idea, but I am not really beating you up for that. But my question about this is, Are you guys ever going to be able to be real with each other and actually talk... 

2) What he is doing about initiation my not be right, but think about it like this... If you NEVER initiated in the past or turned him down a lot, you know he may have a point. And, it will not stay like this forever, after you get familiar with having sex again. 

At some point, he will start initiating in the future, unless he has some HUGE issues. 

3) Do you want to be right, or do you want to get laid????


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

BluesPower said:


> You are wrong, but not the way that you think you are...
> 
> 1) caving was a bad idea, but I am not really beating you up for that. But my question about this is, Are you guys ever going to be able to be real with each other and actually talk...
> 
> ...


WEll, I don't care about being right, BUT I also don't want it out of obligation, which is what it has felt like forever.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

LilMissSunshine said:


> WEll, I don't care about being right, BUT I also don't want it out of obligation, which is what it has felt like forever.


Well, the commination thing has to work out. Just like I said in your other thread. 

Now I am like you, I will not take duty sex from anyone. 

On the other hand, for a while, would it hurt to initiate for a while and see how he reacts? And the waking up thing is different for everyone, my GF wants me to wake her up and I am all for it... 

However, she says the she cannot wake me up, which is entirely possible, when she is horny and wants to make love, so I get that to an extent. 

You have to find a way to talk about this stuff, somehow... 

If not, I really don't see how this marriage works. 

But now, the meds are the issue, so you guys have to deal with that as well, that is the first thing to deal with, and then communication...


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

YEs - feeling like they are obligated, just ruins it for me. I am already finding my attraction to him waning because I feel like for sooo long I have been rejected. There is no other way around it, we are going to HAVE to talk - and as scared as I am of his reaction to having that conversation, I am just going to have to do it. Otherwise, this continues indefinitely. I SHOULD initiate and see what happens, and I tried a few months ago and he said I was acting 'awkward' so we gave up at least for that day, but honestly, I am growing more resentful and less attracted to him the more this goes on. But talking needs to be the first priority - and that could include the medication issue, how this is making me feel the longer it goes on, etc. I just hope and pray he will be open to talking and not create a big ordeal out of it - when I say he blows up, I mean loud, anger, slamming stuff, yelling, that level of response. It's awful.



BluesPower said:


> Well, the commination thing has to work out. Just like I said in your other thread.
> 
> Now I am like you, I will not take duty sex from anyone.
> 
> ...


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

LilMissSunshine said:


> I am convinced it is the low T, but nothing I can say will get him in there to get it treated. He has gained about 100 pounds over the last few years and honestly, i think is also depressed (which if I even mention that word, he blows up - which is an understatement). When the youngest leaves, that means what time I spend with the child will be 'open' with even more glaring in front of me if something doesn't change. I can't MAKE him get treatment, if that's what it is (and if it isn't that, well, I still can't MAKE him feel something he doesn't).


Because he doesn't give a ****. He is manipulating you, and you just keep staying there, letting it happen. If he really has a problem, then who initiates wouldn't matter. But instead, he is forcing all responsibility onto you because he doesn't actually WANT you. 

Jesus girl, don't you want better for yourself??


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

But how is it manipulating??? YES, I do want better...............which is why I want to try and talk to him one last time to see if this cannot be fixed - I cannot go another whole year trying to just wait and see. But how is it manipulating?? I honestly am trying to understand all of this.



3Xnocharm said:


> Because he doesn't give a ****. He is manipulating you, and you just keep staying there, letting it happen. If he really has a problem, then who initiates wouldn't matter. But instead, he is forcing all responsibility onto you because he doesn't actually WANT you.
> 
> Jesus girl, don't you want better for yourself??


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Humans are chemical engines. Even our very thoughts are driven by the chemicals. Love/pair bonding? Chemically driven. Sexual desire? Chemically driven. The bond between mother and child? Chemically driven.

A man with low T isn't going to very often think about sex or independently want sex because he's lacking the chemicals that cause those thoughts and feelings. In other words, unless/until he gets his testosterone issue treated he isn't going to initiate, he isn't going to feel sexual and passionate, and he isn't going to suddenly feel like he needs to have sex and bond with you.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

LilMissSunshine said:


> He won't do anything again until I do, and I am feeling like 3 months has passed and he just flat out could care less. Am I wrong in that I just am not feeling it anymore?


Explain why you think you should (1) love a man who does this and (2) be sexually attracted to him and (3) want to be with a man who does this when you could have your pick of men who'd happily have sex with you several times a day.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

I agree!! I can't get him to see that................but am trying.



MJJEAN said:


> Humans are chemical engines. Even our very thoughts are driven by the chemicals. Love/pair bonding? Chemically driven. Sexual desire? Chemically driven. The bond between mother and child? Chemically driven.
> 
> A man with low T isn't going to very often think about sex or independently want sex because he's lacking the chemicals that cause those thoughts and feelings. In other words, unless/until he gets his testosterone issue treated he isn't going to initiate, he isn't going to feel sexual and passionate, and he isn't going to suddenly feel like he needs to have sex and bond with you.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

LilMissSunshine said:


> But how is it manipulating???


Do some reading. Educate yourself. It is 100% manipulation. Read up on passive aggressiveness; that's what you're dealing with. And hint: it's not love.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

LilMissSunshine said:


> But how is it manipulating??? YES, I do want better...............which is why I want to try and talk to him one last time to see if this cannot be fixed - I cannot go another whole year trying to just wait and see. But how is it manipulating?? I honestly am trying to understand all of this.


Manipulate: to make someone think and behave exactly as you want them to, by skilfully deceiving or influencing them.

Like this:



LilMissSunshine said:


> Scenario: So, with 2018 coming to a close, we have been intimate ONCE in the last 12 months. * He says that area of our lives would improve if I would just admit that I am the reason for our relationship not going well in that area. * I finally 'caved' and told him everything in the R was my fault several months ago even though I didn't truly believe it, as that is the only way he said he would allow that part of our lives to resume. I KNOW, don't beat me down for it - I did it to SEE if it would work, trying to be the bigger person and to move us forward. After I 'admitted' to me asking for too much affection, wanting more than he could give, etc., he made an effort towards intimacy and I thought we were on the right track, until................. *As a caveat to that, he said that he would NOT be initiating again, if I did not initiate FIRST. * I started feeling like it was a 'your turn/my turn' thing and so far, since that one time several months back, I haven't initiated anything and neither has he, so we are at a standstill. He won't do anything again until I do, and I am feeling like 3 months has passed and he just flat out could care less. Am I wrong in that I just am not feeling it anymore? If the only way he will initiate is if I do first, is that WRONG or am I the one in the wrong being selfish for not 'doing my part' by initiating once to every time he does?? It doesn't seem like it should be THIS hard, when it comes to that part of a relationship.



He has kept you in this marriage, knowing full well of your unhappiness due to the lack of sex, by making you feel like everything is your fault, and by throwing you the crumb of sex as long as YOU admit such and YOU initiate. He has no desire for sex with you and doesn't give a damn if it happens or not, or if it hurts you when it doesn't. If he were truly concerned about the quality of the marriage and your feelings, then he would be making efforts to have his health checked out and taken care of. He sees no reason to change anything he does because you keep staying no matter what, and by putting the weight of responsibility on YOUR shoulders, he has manipulated the situation to his satisfaction. He gets to NOT get divorced, and he gets to NOT have sex, just like he wants. He had no intention of anything changing with your "admission"... you knew this, I kinda get why you tried it anyway. No, this all is neither fair nor reasonable. I find him sickening, honestly, and hope you find your way away from him soon.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

LilMissSunshine said:


> I agree!! I can't get him to see that................but am trying.


See, while he doesn't have those desires or needs anymore due to the lack of T, you do. And he knows this. He's not bothering to fix the problem because it's not a problem for him. It's only a problem for you.

Honey, he knows. He just doesn't care.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Tell me this: Would you have married him in the first place had he acted this way back then? No? Then why are you in it now?


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

All very good questions. I guess because he is the father of my kids AND I am early 50's and won't have the luxury of time to rebuild a new life as would someone in their 20's, 30's or even 40's. I guess those are the two biggies.



turnera said:


> Explain why you think you should (1) love a man who does this and (2) be sexually attracted to him and (3) want to be with a man who does this when you could have your pick of men who'd happily have sex with you several times a day.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You need to be realistic. For whatever reason, he's just not interested in you and hasn't been in a long time. 

It will come down to staying and accepting things as they are or leaving and rebuilding your life. Some stay and some go. You'll have to make your choice; he's already made his.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

YES. The re-building part is scary. I wonder how those that stay manage to cope? Does one just eventually become numb to it?



Openminded said:


> You need to be realistic. For whatever reason, he's just not interested in you and hasn't been in a long time.
> 
> It will come down to staying and accepting things as they are or leaving and rebuilding your life. Some stay and some go. You'll have to make your choice; he's already made his.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Maybe a two pronged approach. 

1. Decide to initiate daily if you want, see if he will participate. Keep a loose track of your "successes" so if too many rejections, when you look back you'll know, without self-doubt, you tried.

2. Talk to a divorce lawyer, start looking into how much it would cost, and where, you'd like to live if single. Just for research at this point. 

His turns to anger seem to be also a very important problem. Very concerning. 

You'd be ok if separated. Don't doubt it. Educate yourself on costs to live just in case.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

LilMissSunshine said:


> All very good questions. I guess because he is the father of my kids AND I am early 50's and won't have the luxury of time to rebuild a new life as would someone in their 20's, 30's or even 40's. I guess those are the two biggies.


You know what... I got out of a 26 year marriage, a few years back. After catting around a lot, I am in a wonderful relationship, with a wonderful woman, and my life is completely great. 

And, frankly, it was great even before I met her, it is just better now. 

I am 54...


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Wow, that is encouraging, for sure. Did your standard of living change greatly? Not that it is the most important thing, but I know mine probably will. I can be self-supporting and TG have had a good career, even though I am in a field that really isn't considered high-paying compared to his. The financially starting over part is a little concerning to me as well - especially at this age. That's great, Blues.........very encouraging, and GOOD FOR YOU! ) A true success story!



BluesPower said:


> You know what... I got out of a 26 year marriage, a few years back. After catting around a lot, I am in a wonderful relationship, with a wonderful woman, and my life is completely great.
> 
> And, frankly, it was great even before I met her, it is just better now.
> 
> I am 54...


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Thanks for that! I actually DID talk with a lawyer last January and kept all of the notes. I have a small amount of money saved that could get me started, and I am the budget person at home so am already in tune with that side of things. I could financially make it, but definitely living a different lifestyle than what I have now.

On #1, doing that i feel certain he will participate, but my whole issue is that I want the interest to come from HIM, not me offering something that will get a half-hearted response from him. He WILL participate - just because I'm asking. What is wrong with me WANTING someone who is equally interested???? Ii want to CONNECT, not just have somebody there for random physicalness -if that makes sense.



Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Maybe a two pronged approach.
> 
> 1. Decide to initiate daily if you want, see if he will participate. Keep a loose track of your "successes" so if too many rejections, when you look back you'll know, without self-doubt, you tried.
> 
> ...


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

LilMissSunshine said:


> Wow, that is encouraging, for sure. Did your standard of living change greatly? Not that it is the most important thing, but I know mine probably will. I can be self-supporting and TG have had a good career, even though I am in a field that really isn't considered high-paying compared to his. The financially starting over part is a little concerning to me as well - especially at this age. That's great, Blues.........very encouraging, and GOOD FOR YOU! ) A true success story!


In my case, I did OK. I have more disposable cash than I had before. 

But you know, how much is money worth? Is it worth your happiness, is it worth your dignity. 

Also, when we move in together, after she retires next year, we will have a LOT of money. Not overly rich or anything, just plenty of money to live on and save money, and do the things that we want to do. 

However, all of that is just icing on the cake, it is the relationship that matters, (in your case and my case), the actual love, not the money...


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

I can retire in 8 years (we both have our own 401ks and both are about equal, so I doubt we would have to split those up, given they are about equal - the attorney I talked with last year agreed with that), so if I can squeak by until I am 59 1/2 and can then get to those investments, I should be fine................but that's 8 years that I do have some concerns over. Not so much due to my current situation with job, etc., just the 'what if's' something happens with that job and I find it hard to get another one, etc. (seen too many downsized over the years and of course have that running through my mind). I know a lot can happen in 8 years - good and not-good. You are correct, though, money is not worth your happiness and dignitiy, for sure.

Who knows, I could meet a wonderful person like you did and we can join forces together - and I'll have the icing on the cake, too  Right? Never know what could happen.



BluesPower said:


> In my case, I did OK. I have more disposable cash than I had before.
> 
> But you know, how much is money worth? Is it worth your happiness, is it worth your dignity.
> 
> ...


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Did the attorney talk about alimony?


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Yes, she said I should ask for it, but didn't have specific figures. I almost just want to say NONE so I can be done and not have to fight him over that - he won't want to pay even though he makes twice what I do.



lucy999 said:


> Did the attorney talk about alimony?


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

LilMissSunshine said:


> Yes, she said I should ask for it, but didn't have specific figures. I almost just want to say NONE so I can be done and not have to fight him over that - he won't want to pay even though he makes twice what I do.


 Of course he won't want to pay! But he'll have to if the court orders it. And there won't be a damn thing he could do about it. Look, he's going to be mad no matter what you do. Hell, he's mad now. Might as well ask for it if that's what's keeping you from leaving.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

LilMissSunshine said:


> All very good questions. I guess because he is the father of my kids AND I am early 50's and won't have the luxury of time to rebuild a new life as would someone in their 20's, 30's or even 40's. I guess those are the two biggies.


So let's unpeal these fallacies you're hanging on to. One, half of this country's children are of divorced parents. Half of the ones whose parents are still married are living in dysfunctional homes like yours. Which kids do you think are better adjusted?

Two, does that earn him something he no longer deserves? No, that just means you're being codependent and cannot set healthy boundaries/consequences.

Three, I'm 60 and I could EASILY find a new partner, as a woman. All I have to do is be open to it. My brother divorced at 60 and is now happily involved with an even better woman he's planning to move in with. 

Four, if you're talking about money, is that what you're going to do with you one life you're given - waste it on a spiteful passive aggressive man so you can be more comfortable financially?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

LilMissSunshine said:


> YES. The re-building part is scary. I wonder how those that stay manage to cope? Does one just eventually become numb to it?


You will become numb, then depressed, then lifeless. You'll spend the last 30 years of your life having no reason to get up in the morning, nothing to look forward to.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

BluesPower said:


> You know what... I got out of a 26 year marriage, a few years back. After catting around a lot, I am in a wonderful relationship, with a wonderful woman, and my life is completely great.
> 
> And, frankly, it was great even before I met her, it is just better now.
> 
> I am 54...


There's a poster here who left her husband in her late 60s, I believe, and she couldn't be happier. She's just sorry she waited so long.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

lucy999 said:


> Of course he won't want to pay! But he'll have to if the court orders it. And there won't be a damn thing he could do about it. Look, he's going to be mad no matter what you do. Hell, he's mad now. Might as well ask for it if that's what's keeping you from leaving.


If you're divorcing a man for very valid reasons, stop thinking of him in terms of a friend. He's no friend to your marriage. You helped make HIS life very nice and tolerable and whatever he has earned is JOINT income, no matter if he earns more than you.

I suspect that 2 or 3 decades living with a passive aggressive, even slightly mentally abusive man has convinced you that you don't deserve as much as you think you do. Take it from me; it wears you down, wears down your belief in your own value. 

Are you seeing a therapist? I'd start there. You should be seeing one twice a month to help you get a handle on what you're dealing with.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

If he's showing no interest and/or no interest in connecting with you, the die may be cast.

There are succes stories out there as @BluesPower shared so know there's a path to having your best life!

If both you and H are checked out of the marriage already, no use in staying until mutual resentment causes an explosion. 

Only you know what's best for you. My suggestion on the marriage is, what would you say if when you say you want a divorce, Hubby asks you to stay, he'll change, etc?

It may happen. Best to have your answers planned for multiple scenarios.

If you know no matter what he says you'll want to proceed with a D, it's time.

There will be a period of grief and sadness but those will be mixed with relief and de-stressing, and a renewed spark of life.

No joy because of the leaving a partner of many years but new joy knowing you'll get a break from the daily pain of today's being in a bad relationship. 

After the immediate short term stress you'll develop a long term peace.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

How often do you hang out with some female friends? That's the very first thing my therapist told me to do. It has a huge impact on your feelings about your situation.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

I think that it TRUE - and he has said he has no problem with the way things are - it's ME that is unhappy. And I am. to which his solution is for ME to initiate with him if I am feeling that lonely. Which I could do. It just seems like he is so 'Meh" about it all - which breaks my heart.



MJJEAN said:


> See, while he doesn't have those desires or needs anymore due to the lack of T, you do. And he knows this. He's not bothering to fix the problem because it's not a problem for him. It's only a problem for you.
> 
> Honey, he knows. He just doesn't care.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

My two good friends see the anger issues and have been begging me to consider going for a while, so they aren't the best ones to talk to - they are biased by what they have observed and heard.



turnera said:


> How often do you hang out with some female friends? That's the very first thing my therapist told me to do. It has a huge impact on your feelings about your situation.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Well, there is no "don't like" button, but you know what I mean - DON'T LIKE - boo, hiss! )



turnera said:


> You will become numb, then depressed, then lifeless. You'll spend the last 30 years of your life having no reason to get up in the morning, nothing to look forward to.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

LilMissSunshine said:


> My two good friends see the anger issues and have been begging me to consider going for a while, so they aren't the best ones to talk to - they are biased by what they have observed and heard.


I respectfully disagree. They have your best interests at heart because they care for you. If they didn't care for you they wouldn't care less. If they didn't see alarming behavior they wouldn't "beg" you to leave. I think they are indeed the best ones to talk to.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

If he says he will go to both counselor AND to get checked medically, that's all I need to hear - will stay and see how things progress. If he doesn't agree to both, after all that has transpired, I am afraid that I am going to have to steel myself as I don't truthfully think I can continue on like this. I don't think he is unhappy at all as long as I don't bring this up as an issue, so he isn't checked out..................just not willing to do either of those two things - otherwise, is happy to take me to dinner, watch tv with me, hold a pleasant conversation.............which is what makes it so dang hard.



Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> If he's showing no interest and/or no interest in connecting with you, the die may be cast.
> 
> There are succes stories out there as @BluesPower shared so know there's a path to having your best life!
> 
> ...


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Who knows if it is valid or not. To hear him tell it, I should be satisfied - he gives us a good life, doesn't crowd me and let's me do my thing with friends, is proud of my career, you name it..............it's ME that is breaking up a LT relationship because there isn't enough affection which he says is NOT worth blowing up an entire relationship. Do you disagree with that?

I have been seeing the same therapist off and on since 2012 when all of this first started. There isn't anything new she can tell me other than my choices which are a. to leave, b. to stay and try to make changes, or c. to stay and find other things to focus on. I truly don't know what else she can tell me at this point. 




turnera said:


> If you're divorcing a man for very valid reasons, stop thinking of him in terms of a friend. He's no friend to your marriage. You helped make HIS life very nice and tolerable and whatever he has earned is JOINT income, no matter if he earns more than you.
> 
> I suspect that 2 or 3 decades living with a passive aggressive, even slightly mentally abusive man has convinced you that you don't deserve as much as you think you do. Take it from me; it wears you down, wears down your belief in your own value.
> 
> Are you seeing a therapist? I'd start there. You should be seeing one twice a month to help you get a handle on what you're dealing with.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

NO! I absolutely would not. 



turnera said:


> Tell me this: Would you have married him in the first place had he acted this way back then? No? Then why are you in it now?


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

LilMissSunshine said:


> If he says he will go to both counselor AND to get checked medically, that's all I need to hear - will stay and see how things progress. If he doesn't agree to both, after all that has transpired, I am afraid that I am going to have to steel myself as I don't truthfully think I can continue on like this. I don't think he is unhappy at all as long as I don't bring this up as an issue, so he isn't checked out..................just not willing to do either of those two things - otherwise, is happy to take me to dinner, watch tv with me, hold a pleasant conversation.............which is what makes it so dang hard.


You see... this right here, is what you need to read over, what you just wrote... and this is roommates not a romantic loving, sexual marriage. I mean, you get that right?

HE is not UNHAPPY, well ok, good for him. 

BUT YOU ARE, and the anger is just one of the things that makes you unhappy. 

If I have learned anything, it is that being unhappy, and a spouse can make you unhappy, or at least steal your happiness, is not the way that anyone should live. 

And if I might say, you are living the Frog in a pot of boiling water analogy, if you don't know that one I can write it out. 

But, at this point, if he refuses to change, then you really have no idea how happy you can be when you are out of this situation.

People just do not realize...


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Yes, Blues.................I have USED that phrase with him "roommate situation" - I HATE IT! I can run an ad in the paper and choose from an assortment of roommates. I also have plenty of friends and don't need one more. I NEED a romantic, loving marriage - YES, I get it! I have SAID THAT - to myself, and to HIM. TO which he tells me to initiate and he's all in........but *I* have to be the one to do it. The anger issues and the roommate status are the two things that are making me unhappy. And that's what I don't think I can endure another year of it. I am about at my breaking point. And him under 'duress' spending physical time with me still doesn't make it a situation I am thrilled about.

And Y ES, I know the frog story - and see how it relates to this!



BluesPower said:


> You see... this right here, is what you need to read over, what you just wrote... and this is roommates not a romantic loving, sexual marriage. I mean, you get that right?
> 
> HE is not UNHAPPY, well ok, good for him.
> 
> ...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

LilMissSunshine said:


> My two good friends see the anger issues and have been begging me to consider going for a while, so they aren't the best ones to talk to - they are biased by what they have observed and heard.


No, I didn't mean to go and talk about your marriage. I mean to go out and hang out with them and join a group of some sort (knitting, sky-diving, whatever), and start filling your life with rewarding time with other women. It will compensate for the soul-sucking he's doing and help you achieve some balance in your life.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

LilMissSunshine said:


> I don't truthfully think I can continue on like this.


It's not that you can't continue like this, it's that you _shouldn't _continue like this. For what reason? You only get one life, LMS. Don't waste it being miserable.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

LilMissSunshine said:


> Who knows if it is valid or not.


Well, for one thing, you just told me that you absolutely would not have married him had you known he would be like this. That's all the validation you need, hon. 

For another, I'm hearing people talk about anger issues, you're talking about passive aggressiveness, he's absolutely acting in a NONloving way by trying to manipulate you. I'd say you have a sh*tload of valid reasons.



> I have been seeing the same therapist off and on since 2012 when all of this first started. There isn't anything new she can tell me other than my choices which are a. to leave, b. to stay and try to make changes, or c. to stay and find other things to focus on. I truly don't know what else she can tell me at this point.


Then it's time to find a new therapist as you're just wasting money. Therapists should be urging you to make changes to ACHIEVE happiness, however that happens.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

I am following you! YES, I probably COULD use more of that.............am working on a second advanced degree, so that keeps me busy, too. I definitely am trying to find other things to occupy my time.



turnera said:


> No, I didn't mean to go and talk about your marriage. I mean to go out and hang out with them and join a group of some sort (knitting, sky-diving, whatever), and start filling your life with rewarding time with other women. It will compensate for the soul-sucking he's doing and help you achieve some balance in your life.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

turnera said:


> No, I didn't mean to go and talk about your marriage. I mean to go out and hang out with them and join a group of some sort (knitting, sky-diving, whatever), and start filling your life with rewarding time with other women. It will compensate for the soul-sucking he's doing and help you achieve some balance in your life.


With respect, @turnera, but so would divorcing his dumb ass and moving on with life...


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

No, he isn't "all in" if you initiate. You tried and he shot you down because he decided it was "awkward." He just didn't want to have sex with you and that was his "reason". Even if you do try to initiate he's very likely to keep finding excuses why it's not exactly "right" so he can turn you down without having to say he's not interested.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

BluesPower said:


> With respect, @turnera, but so would divorcing his dumb ass and moving on with life...


Yeah, but she's been seeing an IC for this for 6 years and hasn't changed anything. At least getting a life and realizing there's more to living than sitting at home with a roommate might help her realize her worth. And there's something about being around other women that's empowering for someone in her position.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

LilMissSunshine said:


> I am following you! YES, I probably COULD use more of that.............am working on a second advanced degree, so that keeps me busy, too. I definitely am trying to find other things to occupy my time.


You also could pick a hobby you like and join a club that you can do it in. That also would give you a sense of accomplishment, and with accomplishment comes higher self esteem and self reliance. All the things you need, to start to believe in yourself more.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

turnera said:


> Yeah, but she's been seeing an IC for this for 6 years and hasn't changed anything. At least getting a life and realizing there's more to living than sitting at home with a roommate might help her realize her worth. And there's something about being around other women that's empowering for someone in her position.


Let's hope, and I still do the hope thing, that she is finally getting the picture and wants out, maybe not but let's hope...


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

I know I must sound like an idiot for still dealing with this for so long. I have tried to do the noble thing and stay for my kids' sake, and now one has finally launched from the nest (she would have been 13 had I bailed six years ago) and the other is 16, so a bit older. I feel proud that I have hung in here for as long as I have. Also, six years ago, I had been working as a self-employed contractor for years and only in the last 2 years have I gotten a permanent position with benefits, which is also one less barrier to me going. Six years ago, I would not have been in a good position to go with unstable paychecks and no other health insurance. So good that I stayed for that reason as well. 

HONESTLY? If he initiated something right NOW, as in TONIGHT, I am not even sure how I would feel. I feel like my attraction is sort of dissolving, probably because of all of the drama that has been associated with this topic. And at random times, I have "flashbacks" of his face and words when he was at his worst. I know this wasn't his intended result by putting me off the way he has, but honestly, some of the physical attraction I have for him is starting to become very distorted...........if that makes sense. That's not to say IF he says he will both go to the doctor AND counseling that I won't quickly revert back to what it was before, I probably would. But just sitting here thinking about ALL of this, I had that thought about what would I do not about the conversation and how it goes, but IF he actually INITIATED something as a result of that conversation.

Trust me, Blues...........I get the picture. That last post about the roommate and friends thing, I need to just keep going back to that..........I do.




BluesPower said:


> Let's hope, and I still do the hope thing, that she is finally getting the picture and wants out, maybe not but let's hope...


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

LilMissSunshine said:


> I know I must sound like an idiot for still dealing with this for so long. I have tried to do the noble thing and stay for my kids' sake, and now one has finally launched from the nest (she would have been 13 had I bailed six years ago) and the other is 16, so a bit older. I feel proud that I have hung in here for as long as I have. Also, six years ago, I had been working as a self-employed contractor for years and only in the last 2 years have I gotten a permanent position with benefits, which is also one less barrier to me going. Six years ago, I would not have been in a good position to go with unstable paychecks and no other health insurance. So good that I stayed for that reason as well.
> 
> HONESTLY? If he initiated something right NOW, as in TONIGHT, I am not even sure how I would feel. I feel like my attraction is sort of dissolving, probably because of all of the drama that has been associated with this topic. And at random times, I have "flashbacks" of his face and words when he was at his worst. I know this wasn't his intended result by putting me off the way he has, but honestly, some of the physical attraction I have for him is starting to become very distorted...........if that makes sense. That's not to say IF he says he will both go to the doctor AND counseling that I won't quickly revert back to what it was before, I probably would. But just sitting here thinking about ALL of this, I had that thought about what would I do not about the conversation and how it goes, but IF he actually INITIATED something as a result of that conversation.
> 
> Trust me, Blues...........I get the picture. That last post about the roommate and friends thing, I need to just keep going back to that..........I do.


Well this post compels me to give you the I stayed for all the wrong reasons speech. 

In my marriage, my wife had issues, lots of them. She cheated on me, like a fool I took her back, as I was just young and stupid. She was "sick" all the time, and I took care of her. I basically raised 3 kids alone, was the sole bread winner and took care of my "sick" wife. 

I thought I was being all noble and doing the right thing and I was a complete and utter fool, which is why I don't want people to do the same stupid things I did. 

Through a series of events toward the end of the marriage, I came to understand, that she never really loved me. Oh, she did not mind ****ing me, most women don't. She did not mind staying home and having me take care of the kids and the house, and her, along with everything else. 

But I firmly believe that she never really loved me, and absolutely did not love me like many other women have loved me, MY GF being the best ever. 

No, she saw me a good breeding stock, with good earning power, and in her defense, I was a rock star when we met, so I get that I was a super catch.

But did she ever really love me, I don't think so. 

I want you to ruminate on that, because the way that your husband is treating you sounds like he does not really love you.

He may like you as a roommate, he may even like you as a person, but love, I don't think so. 

And here is the deal, My ex wife, basically stole 1/2 of my life, that I spent taking care of her. Once I realized what was actually going on, I WAS DONE DONE DONE. I could not get divorced fast enough. 

And her is the bottom line, what you cannot understand little frog, like I was, is that when you really find someone that loves you, I mean really loves you with all their heart, THAT feeling is unlike anything else in the world. 

Don't wait and waste your life with someone who does not really love you... it is not worth it...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If I were you, I would set a date for leaving for when your youngest graduates. That gives you time to get your IC to start working with you on gaining strength and self esteem, get your finances in order, start selling things you don't want, that kind of thing. You can always leave earlier, but just having this plan will keep you on track.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

That makes me SAD, Blues..................so sad for you, yet on the other hand looking at the happy ending you have found I know you wouldn't have found it without going through those bad times. But it does make me sad for you reading that. DUMB, dumb question, here, but what SHOULD it feel like if someone loves you with all of their heart? Is it something that can even be described in words? Honestly, I would like to know...............I feel like H would probably give up his life for me if a situation called for it, he would help me through a major illness and not bolt should I have some incurable disease, is happy to put a roof over my head, food on the table, etc..............and yes, even gives me a hug every day and will say ILU. Is there more to it than these examples??? I know part of why I feel so guilty is because he does do ALL of these things................how SHOULD 'real' love feel???? If that can even be described..........




BluesPower said:


> Well this post compels me to give you the I stayed for all the wrong reasons speech.
> 
> In my marriage, my wife had issues, lots of them. She cheated on me, like a fool I took her back, as I was just young and stupid. She was "sick" all the time, and I took care of her. I basically raised 3 kids alone, was the sole bread winner and took care of my "sick" wife.
> 
> ...


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

LilMissSunshine said:


> That makes me SAD, Blues..................so sad for you, yet on the other hand looking at the happy ending you have found I know you wouldn't have found it without going through those bad times. But it does make me sad for you reading that. DUMB, dumb question, here, but what SHOULD it feel like if someone loves you with all of their heart? Is it something that can even be described in words? Honestly, I would like to know...............I feel like H would probably give up his life for me if a situation called for it, he would help me through a major illness and not bolt should I have some incurable disease, is happy to put a roof over my head, food on the table, etc..............and yes, even gives me a hug every day and will say ILU. Is there more to it than these examples??? I know part of why I feel so guilty is because he does do ALL of these things................how SHOULD 'real' love feel???? If that can even be described..........


Well, let me put it like this, not to be too sappy, when she touches me, as we are both very affectionate, it is like some type of electrical charge that comes from her finger tips. 

It is like when she caresses me in bed, just cuddling not sex, I can actually feel the love that she is giving. Sometimes I catch her staring a at me with such love it melts my heart. 

I actually do the same thing but I don't mind if she catches me staring at her and I tell her that. She asks me "What are you staring at?", and I tell her that she is just so beautiful. 

When we are together, it feels.... right, it feels like it has always been like this and it feel like it always will be like this.

And when we make love, I don't know what to say, it is magical... 

That is the best way that I can describe it. It feels right, in a way that it has never felt right before...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

LilMissSunshine said:


> I am doing a bad thing by not just initiating even though I know he really isn't into it? Is there something wrong with WANTING the other person to be the initiator and to show genuine interest? If I never do, then we're at a stalemate. And if I do, I can tell his heart isn't really in it. Which is worse?


No, you are not doing a bad thing by not initiating. What you want/need is not just sex. You want to know that your husband desires you sexually. Nothing wrong with that.

Your husband has a physical issue that he will not even try to fix... low T. Basically he's saying that he is ok with having low energy, no sex drive, and all the other physical problems that go along with a man having low T. 

He is also ok with not meeting one of your most important emotional needs - to be desired sexually by your husband. He is being passive aggressive to hurt you. If he were not, he'd get the meds and see if they fixed his problem.

You either need to accept that you are married to a man who is not sexual and who does not care about a very important need of yours, or if you cannot accept that you need to divorce him. Anything else will only continue to drive you nuts.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Wow, that is a great description and sadly, I don't think it has ever been like that with us, even in our early years. I was 26 when we got married and I thought I was in love. Looking back, I had been in back-to-back nightmare dating situations with people who had real issues, so the first 'normal' person that came along I was mesmerized (and I was physically attracted to him and vice-versa, but it was nothing like what you describe). There is NO cuddling here, just not his style. Thinking WAYYYY back- i.e., 27 years - I am recalling now some of the times we were visiting friends and he would fuss about too much PDA (which really it wasn't THAT much, just me wanting to sit close to him, hold hands, etc), saying there were kids around. I totally get not wanting too much of that in public or in front of young kids, but looking back now, I am not so sure my attempts at being close to him were 'too much' in those scenarios. Probably a red flag I was too blinded to see back then. Who knows if I will ever find that in someone else, but I know I am not finding it here. Thank you for that awesome description! That makes me very happy for YOU! Even more so knowing what you had to go through to get to that point.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

Thanks, Turnera. That's another 2 1/2 years. Not sure if I can hold out that long or not, but I am putting a lot of thought into this. I have been working on my finances for quite some time and feel good about that, but it's always good to improve even more if one has the opportunity. Didn't think about selling anything, but can put some thought into that as well. And thanks for the 'early exit' clause ) Just in case. I am afraid I might be one of those that just out of the blue one day just can't take it anymore and bolts with no warning.



turnera said:


> If I were you, I would set a date for leaving for when your youngest graduates. That gives you time to get your IC to start working with you on gaining strength and self esteem, get your finances in order, start selling things you don't want, that kind of thing. You can always leave earlier, but just having this plan will keep you on track.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> No, you are not doing a bad thing by not initiating. What you want/need is not just sex. You want to know that your husband desires you sexually. Nothing wrong with that. He simply does NOT understand this concept. I know no other way to say it, he just doesn't.............his solution is for me to approach him. End of story. SOOO frustrating.
> 
> Your husband has a physical issue that he will not even try to fix... low T. Basically he's saying that he is ok with having low energy, no sex drive, and all the other physical problems that go along with a man having low T.
> 
> ...


 AGREE. I am really battling internally. I know I need to decide and stick with it.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

LilMissSunshine said:


> Wow, that is a great description and sadly, I don't think it has ever been like that with us, even in our early years. I was 26 when we got married and I thought I was in love. Looking back, I had been in back-to-back nightmare dating situations with people who had real issues, so the first 'normal' person that came along I was mesmerized (and I was physically attracted to him and vice-versa, but it was nothing like what you describe). There is NO cuddling here, just not his style. Thinking WAYYYY back- i.e., 27 years - I am recalling now some of the times we were visiting friends and he would fuss about too much PDA (which really it wasn't THAT much, just me wanting to sit close to him, hold hands, etc), saying there were kids around. I totally get not wanting too much of that in public or in front of young kids, but looking back now, I am not so sure my attempts at being close to him were 'too much' in those scenarios. Probably a red flag I was too blinded to see back then. Who knows if I will ever find that in someone else, but I know I am not finding it here. Thank you for that awesome description! That makes me very happy for YOU! Even more so knowing what you had to go through to get to that point.


Well let me also say that, we are totally PDA and I don't for one second care one **** if it bothers anyone. When I am near her or her me, we are touching. And kissing. 

When we sleep at night, we hold each other all night long, and we turn at the same time as well. 

Some think that is gross, and not only do I not care, I love it...


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

I am sooooo jealous, Blues. I would LOVE to have a relationship like this. LOVE IT. <<<<<<<Sigh>>>>>>>>>. Glad to know that it does exist with the right person!



BluesPower said:


> Well let me also say that, we are totally PDA and I don't for one second care one **** if it bothers anyone. When I am near her or her me, we are touching. And kissing.
> 
> When we sleep at night, we hold each other all night long, and we turn at the same time as well.
> 
> Some think that is gross, and not only do I not care, I love it...


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

What made you change your mind in July when you mentioned divorce and he said go ahead?


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

My 19-year old had some issues she was going through and really needed some support. It was an extended situation and we somewhat banded together to aid her with what she was going through. It was serious enough initially that we were so absorbed with her, everything else became back burner. It never came up again after we got her situation settled.



Openminded said:


> What made you change your mind in July when you mentioned divorce and he said go ahead?


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

It sounds to me like it's fear rather than finances that is holding you back. Granted, your lifestyle will take a hit. But consider your peace of mind. 

I left my alcoholic husband when I was 56. The first job I held during the downturn of 2009, was at a Chik-Fil-A at a mall food court. It paid $9.50/hour. I lived in a 225 square foot "efficiency" over a horse barn. It has zero insulation. It was a cold winter. I learned to be thankful for the heat, food, and shelter I could afford. Oh, and I had cancer too.

Now I don't want you to get all inspired by my story and say, "I can do it too!" Why? Because it's my story. And my story isn't going to get you motivated to leave your husband. What I truly believe will get you to leave your husband, is just doing it in spite of your fear. But that comes from within. I'm not here to proselytize or preach. But I know it was my faith and trust in my Higher Power,, which I call God, that got me through six months of chemo, allowed me to surmount not knowing where my next dollar would come from, or giving up being fearful on what the future held. Truth be told, we can plan till we're blue in the face, but we don't know crap when it comes to what will happen tomorrow.

So if you want to remain safe in your current life, fine. It is entirely up to you, and no matter how many questions you pose to us here, ultimately you have to decide whether or not you want to stay or leave.

I made my choice. I took the leap of faith. Last Friday, I moved into a brand-new luxury apartment. And I'm every single bit as grateful to live in this place as I was to live over a horse barn in 2009.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

WOW. That is quite the journey, Prodigal. YES, I will admit there is fear. I remember what it was like so long ago to struggle and after 25 + years in my field and a lot of sacrifice with that have finally managed to get to a good place - granted he had a role in that, too. I never want to go back to what it was like before - before as in even before I met H, when I could barely afford heat - but I know it won't be that extreme. I need to work on overcoming my fears as another to-do. I read somewhere one way to do that is to imagine "worse case" scenario..............so that's what I will think through. If we sell the house and split the proceeds, I could probably buy a nice condo outright. I will be fine once I get to age 60 since I've done reasonably well saving, but cannot access any of that $$ until I am 59 1/2. If I can make it a good eight years, I'll be in good shape. But those 8 years?!?!? Who knows what will happen. Congrats to you for overcoming. You sound very resilient!



Prodigal said:


> It sounds to me like it's fear rather than finances that is holding you back. Granted, your lifestyle will take a hit. But consider your peace of mind.
> 
> I left my alcoholic husband when I was 56. The first job I held during the downturn of 2009, was at a Chik-Fil-A at a mall food court. It paid $9.50/hour. I lived in a 225 square foot "efficiency" over a horse barn. It has zero insulation. It was a cold winter. I learned to be thankful for the heat, food, and shelter I could afford. Oh, and I had cancer too.
> 
> ...


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Consider Tina Turner: She jumped out of the back of a limo after tolerating a final beating from Ike. She had a $20 bill wadded in her hand. Nothing more.

Sorry to sound judgmental here, but I simply cannot handle you with kid gloves. Life is not about soft, cushy landings. It sounds like that is what you want. Plus, you are way to hung up on money. You are indulging in what-if thinking rather than what-is thinking. It will hold you back in the long run. And when you are on your deathbed you aren't going to give a damn about your 401(k). Believe me, as someone who has been looking death in the eye. You really won't care about any of the **** you are currently worrying about.

But then it's your life and your choice. Just keep this in mind: You keep coming back here with the same old pain and the same old worries. Nothing changes if nothing changes. Your life. Your choice.

SERIOUSLY.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

WHAT IS: Your husband doesn't give a crap about satisfying your need for affection/sex. 

Your husband even told you - with great gusto it seems - to go get a divorce when you threatened.

So that is WHAT IS. You are married to a man who basically doesn't give a damn about you.

You aren't taking one damn cent with you when you leave this world. But you are bogged down in worrying about not living at your current lifestyle level. I fail to see what difference that means in all honesty, but I'm a cancer survivor. I suppose we come from a very different perspective. And I'm grateful for the perspective that cancer gave me. Truth.


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## LilMissSunshine (Apr 10, 2015)

I typed a reply and then it went "POOF"! UGHHH! At any rate - what I am guilty of is black and white thinking. I know if I wind up in a situation like I was so many years ago (no heat, struggling to get by) I am going to feel like a complete failure. I already feel bad about so many other things I don't know if that would put me over the edge. BUT.......odds are I will land somewhere in between. For us black and white thinkers, it's always one way or the other, but I know odds are it will be something in between. Just thinking and writing I am seeing more and more about what my fears and worries are. Also, I love the "What if" vs "What is"...............what a great way of looking at it. Thank you for that! And I do know at the end of our lives $ won't be a thought, but I am a very practical person and a planner in all areas of my life, so it's just part of my nature. But I do need to be realistic. BTW, I worked with cancer patients for about 12 years and got to experience their perspective on a lot. I totally get what you are saying! I am so happy for you and all that you have overcome. Thank you for your helpful insight and for sharing your story!



Prodigal said:


> WHAT IS: Your husband doesn't give a crap about satisfying your need for affection/sex.
> 
> Your husband even told you - with great gusto it seems - to go get a divorce when you threatened.
> 
> ...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

LilMissSunshine said:


> Thanks, Turnera. That's another 2 1/2 years. Not sure if I can hold out that long or not, but I am putting a lot of thought into this. I have been working on my finances for quite some time and feel good about that, but it's always good to improve even more if one has the opportunity. Didn't think about selling anything, but can put some thought into that as well. And thanks for the 'early exit' clause ) Just in case. I am afraid I might be one of those that just out of the blue one day just can't take it anymore and bolts with no warning.


I've been telling my husband I was unhappy for YEARS. I have a two-page list of things that need to be addressed - garage door that hasn't worked in 15 years, 3 dead cars in our driveway, etc. He nods yes and then carries on ignoring it all. 

So I started a to-go box - a box I've put all my important things in: moments I care about, things I want to keep. It's been in the living room for some 6 or 7 months now, it's clear so you can see what's in it. 

DH noticed recently that there are some hooks on the wall with nothing hanging on them. He asked what that was about. I said I took the sconces down and put them in my to-go box. He asked what that meant. I pointed to the box and said 'that's all my important stuff; I'm putting it in that box so that when I finally hit the point where I can't stay here anymore, I can just take the box and leave. 

You'd have thought I just stabbed him. Deer in headlights look. What do you mean? *sigh* So I repeated myself for the umpteenth time that the house is falling apart, he's doing nothing to meet my needs, and I'm sick of it. And one of these days I will just decide I have no reason to stay here anymore and I will leave. Unless something changes.

I'm just saying, maybe make yourself a box like that - it will keep you focused.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

LilMissSunshine said:


> It doesn't seem like it should be THIS hard, when it comes to that part of a relationship.


I think you're not getting the painful truth here.

The man is completely disengaged. * Completely.* He doesn't want to be intimate with you and he's going to continue throwing down all kinds of obstacles to insure that he doesn't HAVE to be. Please stop swallowing your pride and dignity in order to pander to someone who doesn't give a ****. You're better than that.

Read my signature line about 2,000 times.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

LilMissSunshine said:


> I think that it TRUE - and he has said he has no problem with the way things are - it's ME that is unhappy. And I am. to which his solution is for ME to initiate with him if I am feeling that lonely. Which I could do. It just seems like he is so 'Meh" about it all - which breaks my heart.


He is absolutely "meh" about it. He doesn't have the T level to spontaneously inspire physical arousal and sexual thoughts. And, because the lack of sex isn't a problem for him, he is perfectly content with the status quo.


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