# inexperienced wife



## Married-Man

Guys,

Imagine you're 21 and you meet a very nice and pretty shy 19 yo lady in college. Early on you learn she:

Is Phi beta
hasn't ever been drunk or high
Hasn't ever had alcohol or coffee
has never stolen or lied
Never swears
Has Never seen porn or even sought it out 
Doesn't have any interest or curiosity in any of the above
Is very naive
is a virgin and only ever had one relationship with a man (the height of its physical intimacy was him trying to feel her up and and her lying there confused and pushing his hand away)

Although it might seem religious based - her lifestyle choice behavior is so g rated just because she is so innocently naive and shy and seems embarrassed/turned off by all the vice like things described. 


Absolutely ***ZERO*** drama - none whatsoever. Everything is just calmly blissfully PG rated and she is seemingly always agreeable and amenable to whatever messes around and but won't have sex though. 

Mutual attraction but would any of the above be a red flag to you?


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## Andy1001

Married-Man said:


> Guys,
> 
> Imagine you're 21 and you meet a very nice and pretty shy 19 yo lady in college. Early on you learn she:
> 
> Is Phi beta
> hasn't ever been drunk or high
> Hasn't ever had alcohol or coffee
> has never stolen or lied
> Never swears
> Has Never seen porn or even sought it out
> Doesn't have any interest or curiosity in any of the above
> Is very naive
> is a virgin and only ever had one relationship with a man (the height of its physical intimacy was him trying to feel her up and and her lying there confused and pushing his hand away)
> 
> Although it might seem religious based - her lifestyle choice behavior is so g rated just because she is so innocently naive and shy and seems embarrassed/turned off by all the vice like things described.
> 
> 
> Absolutely ***ZERO*** drama - none whatsoever. Everything is just calmly blissfully PG rated and she is seemingly always agreeable and amenable to whatever messes around and but won't have sex though.
> 
> Mutual attraction but would any of the above be a red flag to you?


She’d make a great best friend. 
Not a great girlfriend though.


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## CharlieParker

How the hell did we even meet? I’m confused :scratchhead: 

Not a red flag, but I’m just not interested.


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## ConanHub

If I was as attracted to her as I was to Mrs. C, none of that would be a red flag.

This barbarian would conquer her heart and ravish her body into an orgasmic wasteland.:wink2:


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## Wolf1974

Most of it red flags for me at my age especially being a virgin 

But At 21 probably a dream come true


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## Married-Man

She just shows up in your dorm with a group of mutual friends one night and you get introduced...


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## CharlieParker

Married-Man said:


> She just shows up in your dorm with a group of mutual friends one night and you get introduced...


Well, if she’s hanging with friends of friends I agree with @ConanHub.


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## Tilted 1

Why? Because she has high personal morals? Why are you just looking to get a piece? Or are you looking for a long term?


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## OnTheFly

Seems alright to me. 

Her inexperience would be offset by her agreeableness and amenableness...(assuming the guy isn't a POS).


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## Married-Man

Tilted 1 said:


> Why? Because she has high personal morals? Why are you just looking to get a piece? Or are you looking for a long term?




So that was my wife when I met her in 1991. 

Really hasn't changed at all. Not necessarily a bad thing - it's just very predictable. 

Wanna have an adult beverage or --- hey weed is legal now... wanna try something new? Not happening.

Different strokes for different folks. 

Sounds like I'm judging but is it odd never to have experienced these things or even be remotely curious about them let alone actively avoiding them? 

June Cleaver vs. Nikki Minnaj.


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## Lila

Married-Man said:


> Guys,
> 
> Imagine you're 21 and you meet a very nice and pretty shy 19 yo lady in college. Early on you learn she:
> 
> Is Phi beta
> hasn't ever been drunk or high
> Hasn't ever had alcohol or coffee
> has never stolen or lied
> Never swears
> Has Never seen porn or even sought it out
> Doesn't have any interest or curiosity in any of the above
> Is very naive
> is a virgin and only ever had one relationship with a man (the height of its physical intimacy was him trying to feel her up and and her lying there confused and pushing his hand away)
> 
> Although it might seem religious based - her lifestyle choice behavior is so g rated just because she is so innocently naive and shy and seems embarrassed/turned off by all the vice like things described.
> 
> 
> Absolutely ***ZERO*** drama - none whatsoever. Everything is just calmly blissfully PG rated and she is seemingly always agreeable and amenable to whatever messes around and but won't have sex though.
> 
> Mutual attraction but would any of the above be a red flag to you?


If this was my son, and he was describing the girl he's dating, my response would be simple. 

"_Base your decision to date her on the facts laid before you. Do not assume she will change or worse that YOU will change her. 

Do not expect her to enjoy the occasional alcoholic beverage or coffee beverage.
Do not expect her to swear in public OR private.
Do not expect her to want to watch porn with you.
Do not expect her to be sexually curious or an initiator.

Ask her about her expectations of you.

Does she expect you to abstain from drinking alcohol, smoking weed, drinking coffee, swearing, or watching porn?
Does she show an interest in wanting to be sexual with YOU?_"


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## manfromlamancha

Is she boring generally ?

What kind of music does she like ?

Any hobbies ?

Religious ?


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## Married-Man

Lila said:


> Does she expect you to abstain from drinking alcohol, smoking weed, drinking coffee, swearing, or watching porn?
> 
> Does she show an interest in wanting to be sexual with YOU?[/I]"




I keep alcohol and weed around the house and enjoy them (solo obviously) occasionally. She would probably prefer I didn't do this - but it's not a a problem. But she is a major conflict avoider so doubt she would confront anyway. So long as she doesn't smell it - fine. 

Yes she does show an interest in wanting to be sexual with me. But for me it's gotten a little less interesting. 

Ex: wanted to do some dirty talk -- that was a problem since she's not too confident or comfortable with that -- I had to tell her what to say.... like even write it down so usually that's what's repeated nearly verbatim. Ron Burgandy-esque. 

She's a very nice pleasant agreeable person and a good mother and very calm and patient etc. but geez some Nikki minnaj like attitude would really be a turn on. But we are pretty G rated over here.


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## Married-Man

manfromlamancha said:


> Is she boring generally ?
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of music does she like ?
> 
> 
> 
> Any hobbies ?
> 
> 
> 
> Religious ?



Hobbies = going to the beach, painting pictures of nice happy pleasant things in very bright warm vivid colors, reading books (fiction like Jeeves and such and happy pleasant nice things) 

Music = don't think she's ever bought a cd or tape or record. I subscribe to  music - so she plays the pop hits station generally as background music.

Religion = she goes to church (solo) every Sunday. I asked her if she thinks there is a heaven and all she can say is she "wants there to be" I'm agnostic/atheist. Interestingly she purposely times her arrival at church to avoid the part of the service where you turn and greet the people around you and leaves before the last bit to skip the coffee/social bit.


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## .339971

Maybe. But I'd think she was certainly more well behaved than I ever was.


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## manfromlamancha

Married-Man said:


> Hobbies = going to the beach, painting pictures of nice happy pleasant things in very bright warm vivid colors, reading books (fiction like Jeeves and such and happy pleasant nice things)
> 
> Music = don't think she's ever bought a cd or tape or record. I subscribe to  music - so she plays the pop hits station generally as background music.


So do you think she is boring and quite unusual too ?


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## Lila

Married-Man said:


> I keep alcohol and weed around the house and enjoy them (solo obviously) occasionally. She would probably prefer I didn't do this - but it's not a a problem. But she is a major conflict avoider so doubt she would confront anyway. So long as she doesn't smell it - fine.
> 
> Yes she does show an interest in wanting to be sexual with me. But for me it's gotten a little less interesting.
> 
> Ex: wanted to do some dirty talk -- that was a problem since she's not too confident or comfortable with that -- I had to tell her what to say.... like even write it down so usually that's what's repeated nearly verbatim. Ron Burgandy-esque.
> 
> She's a very nice pleasant agreeable person and a good mother and very calm and patient etc. but geez some Nikki minnaj like attitude would really be a turn on. But we are pretty G rated over here.


Here's the thing. No one is perfect. She sounds like a pretty good person, albeit a bit boring. She doesn't stop you from enjoying the things you like and she seems to be into you sexually which in all honesty surprises me considering how she started out. If you have to tell her what to say, and she's willing to say it, then consider it a win. 

Ask yourself, would you rather have a woman who is likeable, agreeable, sweet, kind, a good mother, patient, and into you sexually but is a bit boring.

-or-

would you rather have a woman who cusses all of the time, is drama prone, far from agreeable but likes to drink/smoke with you and will rock your world in bed?

You can't have it all. Pick your battles.


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## Married-Man

manfromlamancha said:


> So do you think she is boring and quite unusual too ?




Yes and yes. 


Oh forgot to mention - her parents raised raised her without tv. So that's another vice and she typically doesn't pick up on the cultural references.


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## Married-Man

Lila said:


> Here's the thing. No one is perfect. She sounds like a pretty good person, albeit a bit boring. She doesn't stop you from enjoying the things you like and she seems to be into you sexually which in all honesty surprises me considering how she started out. If you have to tell her what to say, and she's willing to say it, then consider it a win.
> 
> 
> 
> Ask yourself, would you rather have a woman who is likeable, agreeable, sweet, kind, a good mother, patient, and into you sexually but is a bit boring.
> 
> 
> 
> -or-
> 
> 
> 
> would you rather have a woman who cusses all of the time, is drama prone, far from agreeable but likes to drink/smoke with you and will rock your world in bed?
> 
> 
> 
> You can't have it all. Pick your battles.




Yep this is it. Just bored with the predictability of it all. Like theses no curiosity for trying new things. Totally see why people seek extracurricular excitement to get a break from the Same old thing. 

That said - things could definitely be worse.


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## sokillme

Did you really marry her? You guys are not compatible at all, she could just as well write the same post about you going the other way. Sounds like you both married way to young. 

And shame on all you you for saying there is something wrong with her (or she is NOT perfect) for not wanting to do all these things. Whatever happened to wives not having to do what their husbands want, I guess that is only in bed. You can't change people remember and you shouldn't try. 

Again why did you marry her when you knew basically everything she strived to be would basically cause you to think she was boring?

What we have her is the same thing as the women who marries a man who is safe. Only it's the man this time.


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## EleGirl

Married-Man said:


> Guys,
> 
> Imagine you're 21 and you meet a very nice and pretty shy 19 yo lady in college. Early on you learn she:
> 
> Is Phi beta
> hasn't ever been drunk or high
> Hasn't ever had alcohol or coffee
> has never stolen or lied
> Never swears
> Has Never seen porn or even sought it out
> Doesn't have any interest or curiosity in any of the above
> Is very naive
> is a virgin and only ever had one relationship with a man (the height of its physical intimacy was him trying to feel her up and and her lying there confused and pushing his hand away)
> 
> Although it might seem religious based - her lifestyle choice behavior is so g rated just because she is so innocently naive and shy and seems embarrassed/turned off by all the vice like things described.
> 
> 
> Absolutely ***ZERO*** drama - none whatsoever. Everything is just calmly blissfully PG rated and she is seemingly always agreeable and amenable to whatever messes around and but won't have sex though.
> 
> Mutual attraction but would any of the above be a red flag to you?


That pretty much describes me at 21 except that I've had alcohol or coffee. 

Add to the raised without TV... yep, I was raised with out much exposure to TV. 

Is that list the only thing that makes a person interesting? Aren't there other things in this world that are far more important than alcohol, coffee, porn and swearing?

What about the rest of her personality, likes, dislikes, interests? 

Her not having been sexual yet does not necessarily mean that she will not be sexual once she's in a relationship that is sexual.


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## sokillme

I feel worse for her, imagine being this guy's wife and reading his post here.


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## EleGirl

sokillme said:


> I feel worse for her, imagine being this guys wife and reading he post here.


No kidding.


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## EleGirl

Married-Man said:


> Yep this is it. Just bored with the predictability of it all. Like theses no curiosity for trying new things. Totally see why people seek extracurricular excitement to get a break from the Same old thing.
> 
> That said - things could definitely be worse.


Tell us about you. What are your interests and hobbies? What exciting, unpredictable things do you do in your life?


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## Lila

Married-Man said:


> Yep this is it. Just bored with the predictability of it all. Like theses no curiosity for trying new things. Totally see why people seek extracurricular excitement to get a break from the Same old thing.
> 
> That said - things could definitely be worse.


Can I ask you your age? It sounds like you are questioning your life decisions. 

This is pretty common in mid-life where people start to feel like their life is "coming to an end" and this is their last chance to experience "the thrill". Unfortunately, this kind of thinking is less about external inputs and more about self.


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## sokillme

Imagine this post if it wasn't about how vanilla she was, but if it was about how much experience she had with other guys in college? Peoples heads would be exploding. Some of the same people judging her would be the first to be offended on her behalf. It's too much. :cussing:


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## Married-Man

EleGirl said:


> Tell us about you. What are your interests and hobbies? What exciting, unpredictable things do you do in your life?



I suppose we're all creatures of habit to a degree. I'm pretty passionate about certain music which she will go along with. Also dark movies are my thing but she won't watch those. I'm pretty tame myself. But I do like to try new things and have new experiences. 

That she doesn't drink/smoke/swear is ok but it's kind of representative of an avoidance to try new things. Like wouldn't you want to at least know what weed or alcohol is like at least? Check the box? Wouldn't you like to at least try watching porn or deep throating/swallowing or anal -- just to know what it's like ? 

Sexually we have to stay in shallow end of the pool. 

For example - these things will never happen 


Her masturbate or use a toy on herself while I watch 
Me use a toy on her 
Me do oral on her
deep throat/swallow/anal
Sending nudes pics or dirty texts

And if any of the above did happen it wouldn't be fun or hot cause she just wouldn't be Into it at all. 

That said - plenty of vanilla PIV in any of three positions...

Oh and sports are probably dumb anyway But she has no clue about a field goal vs a home run. Took her to an NHL game once - the best part for her was the Jumbotron.


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## Married-Man

Lila said:


> Can I ask you your age? It sounds like you are questioning your life decisions.
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty common in mid-life where people start to feel like their life is "coming to an end" and this is their last chance to experience "the thrill". Unfortunately, this kind of thinking is less about external inputs and more about self.




Me 49; her 47

You are probably right. Regret previous missed opportunities and not doing more oat sewing.


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## arbitrator

*I'd say to stop wasting your time, respect her self-imposed boundaries, and to just move on along!

But then, I'm a quitter when it comes to receiving negative feedback!*


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## sokillme

Do you talk to her about how you feel? When you do what do you say? How does she respond?


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## Married-Man

sokillme said:


> Do you talk to her about how you feel? When you do what do you say? How does she respond?




Have tried previously - but it doesn't really go well. She's a *MAJOR* conflict avoider. 

She never ever even so much as raises her voice unless under extreme circumstances. And I tend to be passive/aggressive so probably not the best combo. 

Example - the dirty talk thing. One thing that gets me going is ladies being vocal as they get off -- like moaning and all... but mainly if it's genuine. I explained this and she tries but shes pretty reserved/demure and restrained/inhibited so it's not the real thing. 

I'm pretty tall and I liken this to her criticizing me for being tall. Not really fair. Ugh.


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## Cynthia

A couple of suggestions from a conservative woman:

If you want her to become interested in sports, you might try explaining the game to her and taking her to more games. Personally, I really do not enjoy watching sports on tv at all, but being at a game is more interesting. Still, I would only go with my husband, because frankly, I'm just not interested in sports unless I'm actually playing. But if my husband wants me to go to a game with me and he joyfully answers my questions, I'll go just to be with him and watch him enjoy the game. I'll even stand up a cheer, clap, etc.

My guess regarding your wife not wanting to "talk dirty" is that she sees sex as a loving experience and doesn't want to be treated like an unloved piece of ass. Have you considered talking to her lovingly, but graphically about what you want to do with her and how much you enjoy being with her sexually? She might really enjoy that. It might also get her interested in trying other things, however, there are problem some things she will never do because she considers them to be disgusting and dangerous.

I'll bet she would put anal into that category. I know someone who is having difficulty right now from anal sex. It's politically incorrect to say so, but there are several problems associated with anal, which is why most women are unwilling to do it. So your wife isn't alone in not wanting it. Sure there are lots of women who will, but there are more women who won't.

I think it would help you to focus on what is good about your wife and the things you enjoy about her. She's not causing you grief. She is loving and kind. She is sexually into you and willing to have sex with you often, so while she may not be as flexible as you'd like, you're not incompatible sexually.

When we start focusing on the negative it can destroy a lot of the good things we have in life. Don't let negativity ruin your marriage. Start making a point to truly enjoy and appreciate the gem you have.


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## sokillme

Cynthia said:


> A couple of suggestions from a conservative woman:
> 
> If you want her to become interested in sports, you might try explaining the game to her and taking her to more games. Personally, I really do not enjoy watching sports on tv at all, but being at a game is more interesting. Still, I would only go with my husband, because frankly, I'm just not interested in sports unless I'm actually playing. But if my husband wants me to go to a game with me and he joyfully answers my questions, I'll go just to be with him and watch him enjoy the game. I'll even stand up a cheer, clap, etc.
> 
> My guess regarding your wife not wanting to "talk dirty" is that she sees sex as a loving experience and doesn't want to be treated like an unloved piece of ass. Have you considered talking to her lovingly, but graphically about what you want to do with her and how much you enjoy being with her sexually? She might really enjoy that. It might also get her interested in trying other things, however, there are problem some things she will never do because she considers them to be disgusting and dangerous.
> 
> I'll bet she would put anal into that category. I know someone who is having difficulty right now from anal sex. It's politically incorrect to say so, but there are several problems associated with anal, which is why most women are unwilling to do it. So your wife isn't alone in not wanting it. Sure there are lots of women who will, but there are more women who won't.
> 
> I think it would help you to focus on what is good about your wife and the things you enjoy about her. She's not causing you grief. She is loving and kind. She is sexually into you and willing to have sex with you often, so while she may not be as flexible as you'd like, you're not incompatible sexually.
> 
> When we start focusing on the negative it can destroy a lot of the good things we have in life. Don't let negativity ruin your marriage. Start making a point to truly enjoy and appreciate the gem you have.


I agree with this. OP you are not selling your position really well so to speak. But to be able to do that you are going to have to talk to her in a way where she feels safe. Which means you are going to have to be very loving and not act like you are disappointed. Given the tone of this post I would suspect she already knows you are disappointed. Intimacy and vulnerability goes hand and hand, but you have to be vulnerable too. You have to be very close to her emotionally and then maybe she would feel safe enough to try. 

For instance try to come at it from the idea that "making love" (I use that term purposely) is about your expression of love for her. That the dirty talk or at least being vocal about her pleasure just makes you feel happy and excited. It's another thing about her you want to learn and experience with her. That there is nothing wrong with that, and it's because you love her and want to feel close to her. 

Not about you being bored and wanting her to do things to be hot for you. Now you may get to that point but first you need to make her feel safe enough that you seeing her as hot, is about your appreciation of her and not just helping you get off. Your wife has to believe when you are telling her she is hot that it's not in a gratuitous way like you would say about a women in porn but in a way that celibates her and that she is able to turn you on sexually. 

The second way can be fun for her, the first just makes her feel like an object to be consumed only for your benefit. Even that doesn't have to be bad, but she has to see that as something to be happy about as in (we have been married for many years and my husband occasionally [that point is important, occasionally] is still attracted enough to me to act like a 16 year old teenager. But after you are done you should reinforce that point. Let her know she drives you crazy, build her up. And if SHE likes long build ups with deep conversation before sex you better work on that for her too. Whatever it is. The point is you are building a common language and an ongoing discussion with physical intimacy, it's not about getting off it's about getting to know each other. Also make sure she has Os, and if she doesn't work on that. There are tips on this site from women, and the internet is full of them. 

The bottom like is if she understands your sex life as a way to bring you closer and not a way get you off she may be more open. But that has to be genuine not just lines or she will see through it. But I don't see this as her fault assuming you knew who she was when you married her. 

If this is a religious (Christian) thing it sounds like she has gotten some bad teaching at least as far as sex is concerned, though anal is up for debate.


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## Faithful Wife

I’m confused about why you seem to want to change her. You married her knowing all of this about her. 

I can understand that you would like some of these things, no harm in wanting that. But I don’t see why she would feel good about you asking her to be who she isn’t.

I think you would do better by just fantasizing and imagining her saying the naughty stuff, rather than ask her to do it. Since as you have noted, it isn’t working well when she does try.


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## sunsetmist

I'm wondering if MC with a trained sex therapist would be helpful. Perhaps she would be more comfortable with her sexuality and you would understand her mindset. What is the norm in her mind may be more flexible if approached by a professional. She sounds like a special kind of lady and I hope you appreciate her. 

Sometimes, in cases such as yours, there is shame associated with some of her concerns. Yet, not all folks think they need to try a bit of living of the edge to enjoy life. She leads a healthy life and expenses are less because of her preferences--what an advantage. She is loyal, doesn't follow the crowd--you can trust her and be proud. She is not likely to embarrass you. Be careful in dwelling on what isn't than what is...


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## jlg07

Married-Man said:


> So that was my wife when I met her in 1991.
> 
> Really hasn't changed at all. Not necessarily a bad thing - it's just very predictable.
> 
> Wanna have an adult beverage or --- hey weed is legal now... wanna try something new? Not happening.
> 
> Different strokes for different folks.
> 
> Sounds like I'm judging but is it odd never to have experienced these things or even be remotely curious about them let alone actively avoiding them?
> 
> June Cleaver vs. Nikki Minnaj.


 I would MUCH RATHER have June Cleaver than Nikki Minnaj (ugh) -- really why would you want to deal with that?
She's a nice person, doesn't do drama, so WHAT if she doesn't want to drink/smoke, etc.?

You've said she is willing to try stuff with you in bed -- what more do you want? She tried dirty talk because you wanted it. So, she wasn't good at it --- were you great at everything the first time? If she keeps it up, she can get better. If you are too vanilla having sex, TALK to her about some of the other stuff you'd like to do and try it out. I wouldn't go from vanilla to full dungeon BDSM, but there are TONS of things to do in between that.

Good Lord, you should be happy she's not out trying to bang half of the church congregation.! Have you READ some of the stories on here? Be grateful you have the type of wife you do. If you need variation in sex, work with HER and you can both get the experience together.


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## Married-Man

Thanks for the thoughtfulness and insight. 

BTW how odd is this: There is never open mouth "French" kissing and rarely hand holding. " I love you" is very rare. I'm not good at saying it either. It's just not a phrase that is used by anyone in my house. (2 sons 15 and 13). 

It's the vulnerability and emotional closeness that's not up to snuff. I sense it but My guess is she's ok with where things are or at least She wouldn't ever bring it up as a problem and would never dream of counseling. No money problems. 

She is not unattractive to my physically- but
It's tough to imagine doing these things that have been suggested... we are more like legally linked cohabitating coparenting FWB than passionate lovers. Sometimes i question my feelings and catch myself taking for granted. She'll just put up with whatever and not complain... desperately avoids conflict. I seek it sometimes to address these things and she just shuts down and cries.


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## Faithful Wife

@Married-Man

Please start saying I love you to your wife and kids. At least once a week. Start making it normal to do that. It’s important.


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## TheDudeLebowski

Married-Man said:


> Guys,
> 
> Imagine you're 21 and you meet a very nice and pretty shy 19 yo lady in college. Early on you learn she:
> 
> Is Phi beta
> hasn't ever been drunk or high
> Hasn't ever had alcohol or coffee
> has never stolen or lied
> Never swears
> Has Never seen porn or even sought it out
> Doesn't have any interest or curiosity in any of the above
> Is very naive
> is a virgin and only ever had one relationship with a man (the height of its physical intimacy was him trying to feel her up and and her lying there confused and pushing his hand away)
> 
> Although it might seem religious based - her lifestyle choice behavior is so g rated just because she is so innocently naive and shy and seems embarrassed/turned off by all the vice like things described.
> 
> 
> Absolutely ***ZERO*** drama - none whatsoever. Everything is just calmly blissfully PG rated and she is seemingly always agreeable and amenable to whatever messes around and but won't have sex though.
> 
> Mutual attraction but would any of the above be a red flag to you?


Sounds perfect! Sounds a lot like my wife before I corrupted her a bit. But she also turned me into a bit less of a waste of oxygen. I was the wild man. My wife worried endlessly about nonsense. She's the forward thinker. Head always in the future. I'm a present thinker. What is going on right this second? That's what I care about. I also kill myself over my past. But I calmed my wife's endless worries by just being Lebowski like. Showed her how stuff sort of just works out if you chill the hell out. She showed me you cant always live for the now. Cant always have something exciting going on. Cant always look for the next high. That you have to plan ahead and have long term goals. We balance each other out. 

How are things in terms of other matches within the relationship?


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## sunsetmist

Start here. Psychotherapist Virginia Satir said: “We need 4 hugs a day for survival. We need 8 hugs a day for maintenance. We need 12 hugs a day for growth.” These are at least 15 second hugs. Hug kids and wife. Tell all you love them. Comfort for all will grow as this is practiced. Intimacy breeds more intimacy. She will never be a wild woman, but she will be more comfortable with her concerns over your expectations.

You say she will not do this or that--how do you know--are you sure? If it is important enough to you, she may surprise you. 

I find it sad that you are disappointed by her good habits. She has to feel it when she thinks she 'let you down.' Demonstrating emotion does not come easily for those who have been raised to believe restraint is the norm. The 'feel goods' contribute to enhanced closeness.


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## TheDudeLebowski

Ok, I went back and saw this is a sex thread. Well, I mean when we met it was about 3 weeks of intense 16 year old young love before we lost our virginity to one another. Our sex life over the years has evolved and progressed at a slow pace. But it continues to move forward. We are only 36 (almost) years old and neither of us are going anywhere. The nice thing about taking it slow is it doesn't get stale. 5,10,15x20+ years down the road, you will be doing different things if you just stay the course and keep meeting emotional needs. Find things that makes her desire you. Desire is key imo. It's not about just looking good, although that is a must also (hit the gym), but it's also about putting yourself in favorable positions. My wife gets turned on watching me work on cars, fixing things, playing with the kids, or any type of shirt off labor which is common in Texas heat. Shirt off labor puts her in heat.

Cant wait to see what is in store for us the next decade or so....


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## Diana7

Married-Man said:


> So that was my wife when I met her in 1991.
> 
> Really hasn't changed at all. Not necessarily a bad thing - it's just very predictable.
> 
> Wanna have an adult beverage or --- hey weed is legal now... wanna try something new? Not happening.
> 
> Different strokes for different folks.
> 
> Sounds like I'm judging but is it odd never to have experienced these things or even be remotely curious about them let alone actively avoiding them?
> 
> June Cleaver vs. Nikki Minnaj.


I think its awesome that there are still people around like your wife. You have a good woman there and yet bizarrely you seem to want a woman who drinks takes drugs and watches porn. Many good men would love to have a wife like yours. Appreciate what you have and be grateful.


----------



## Diana7

sokillme said:


> I feel worse for her, imagine being this guy's wife and reading his post here.


Yes, poor woman. :frown2:


----------



## Diana7

My husband has never taken illegal drugs, smoked, rarely drinks, doesn't watch porn, has never had sex outside marriage and hates conflict as well. Rather than think that is 'boring', (its not), I LOVE being married to such an amazing awesome man of integrity and such strong moral values, and feel very blessed that he wanted to marry me. I think its great to have a partner who is so very different from the norm, who doesn't just go along with the flow, who is their own person. 

Discontentment is deadly for a marriage. I feel pretty angry on her behalf that you see goodness as so very boring. Its really not. You are a very blessed man and I feel for her SO much that she must sense how disappointed with her you are. Some people will never be happy no matter what they have. Sheesh.

OH and BTW stop with the porn and treat your wife with more love and respect. Enjoy the sex you do have with her, and stop thinking of what other women in the porn films may do, its not real life, they are acting. Many women in porn films actually hate sex.


----------



## Casual Observer

sunsetmist said:


> I'm wondering if MC with a trained sex therapist would be helpful. Perhaps she would be more comfortable with her sexuality and you would understand her mindset. What is the norm in her mind may be more flexible if approached by a professional. She sounds like a special kind of lady and I hope you appreciate her.
> 
> Sometimes, in cases such as yours, there is shame associated with some of her concerns. Yet, not all folks think they need to try a bit of living of the edge to enjoy life. She leads a healthy life and expenses are less because of her preferences--what an advantage. She is loyal, doesn't follow the crowd--you can trust her and be proud. She is not likely to embarrass you. Be careful in dwelling on what isn't than what is...


Aside from MC, there are a HUGE number of Christian-based sites devoted to sexual pleasure being a gift from God and offering pretty specific ways one can go about enjoying that gift. I think it's very important to respect her boundaries, but at the same time, there are some areas where they might be able to be stretched a bit. I don't think pushing real dirty talk or porn makes any sense whatsoever. But leaving out oral sex (on her)? I think that's something that might be within slightly-stretched boundaries.

This is apparently a very honorable and decent woman who should be treated with respect and kindness, not ridicule.


----------



## sokillme

Married-Man said:


> Thanks for the thoughtfulness and insight.
> 
> BTW how odd is this: There is never open mouth "French" kissing and rarely hand holding. " I love you" is very rare. I'm not good at saying it either. It's just not a phrase that is used by anyone in my house. (2 sons 15 and 13).
> 
> It's the vulnerability and emotional closeness that's not up to snuff. I sense it but My guess is she's ok with where things are or at least She wouldn't ever bring it up as a problem and would never dream of counseling. No money problems.
> 
> She is not unattractive to my physically- but
> It's tough to imagine doing these things that have been suggested... we are more like legally linked cohabitating coparenting FWB than passionate lovers. Sometimes i question my feelings and catch myself taking for granted. She'll just put up with whatever and not complain... desperately avoids conflict. I seek it sometimes to address these things and she just shuts down and cries.


Not surprising. You are never going to have the physical intimacy that you crave without the emotional intimacy. Here is a tip, be the leader in your marriage and in your household. When you feel love say it. Often to your kids too, it's very important. Open yourself up emotionally to your wife and see what happens.


----------



## manfromlamancha

I do understand all the criticism aimed at the OP and maybe some of it is justified - however - I do sense that his wife is wired very differently from the norm.

And I don't just mean not being into swearing, alcohol, adventurous sex etc. I was raised in a very strict household (Catholic) and TV was something that we were rewarded with not taken for granted. Also didnt drink a lot when I was young (and I was a male so we had more allowances than the girls). BUT there is something Stepfordian in her demeanour and behaviour from what the OP says and while that would appear sweet and endearing at first, would eventually wear on me and maybe even freak me out a bit.

So I would have to ask to delve deeper into her upbringing, family, close network growing up etc. There is something in there that shaped her into the person she is today.


----------



## Young at Heart

Married-Man said:


> Guys,
> 
> Imagine you're 21 and you meet a very nice and pretty shy 19 yo lady in college. Early on you learn she:
> 
> Is Phi beta
> hasn't ever been drunk or high
> Hasn't ever had alcohol or coffee
> has never stolen or lied
> Never swears
> Has Never seen porn or even sought it out
> Doesn't have any interest or curiosity in any of the above
> Is very naive
> is a virgin and only ever had one relationship with a man (the height of its physical intimacy was him trying to feel her up and and her lying there confused and pushing his hand away)
> 
> Although it might seem religious based - her lifestyle choice behavior is so g rated just because she is so innocently naive and shy and seems embarrassed/turned off by all the vice like things described.
> 
> 
> Absolutely ***ZERO*** drama - none whatsoever. Everything is just calmly blissfully PG rated and she is seemingly always agreeable and amenable to whatever messes around and but won't have sex though.
> 
> Mutual attraction but would any of the above be a red flag to you?





Married-Man said:


> So that was my wife when I met her in 1991.
> 
> Really hasn't changed at all. Not necessarily a bad thing - it's just very predictable.
> 
> Wanna have an adult beverage or --- hey weed is legal now... wanna try something new? Not happening.
> 
> Different strokes for different folks.
> 
> Sounds like I'm judging but is it odd never to have experienced these things or even be remotely curious about them let alone actively avoiding them?
> 
> June Cleaver vs. Nikki Minnaj.


Also sounds a bit like the woman I married, except she would drink at times. While I love my wife and have been married to her for 48 years, I struggle with her LD nature. 

In hindsight, I would say Yes the list sounds like red flags. The question I would advise others (or myself) to ask such a woman prior to marriage is if she has ever masturbated and why. Also ask her to describe what a perfect marriage entails.

Good luck and enjoy your wife.


----------



## MJJEAN

Married-Man said:


> Is Phi beta
> hasn't ever been drunk or high
> Hasn't ever had alcohol or coffee
> has never stolen or lied
> Never swears
> Has Never seen porn or even sought it out
> Doesn't have any interest or curiosity in any of the above
> Is very naive
> is a virgin and only ever had one relationship with a man (the height of its physical intimacy was him trying to feel her up and and her lying there confused and pushing his hand away)
> 
> Mutual attraction but would any of the above be a red flag to you?


Most of the above would be red flags for me. I just couldn't date someone like that without being bored out of my mind.

I haven't read replies yet, so I'll be all  if it turns out this woman was/is 1 in 1,000,000 and turns into the biggest kinster known to man.


----------



## heartsbeating

Married-Man said:


> Mutual attraction but would any of the above be a red flag to you?


Were they to you, back in 1991? 

Perhaps strangely, the Joni Mitchell lines popped in my mind as I read through this thread, _'..don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you got 'till it's gone..'_


----------



## heartsbeating

Married-Man said:


> Sounds like I'm judging but is it odd never to have experienced these things or even be remotely curious about them let alone actively avoiding them?


I've taken drugs, drink alcohol, watched porn... I don't think it's odd not to have experienced such things. Unlike your wife, I rarely go to the beach, and have only painted once outside of school. From that very short description, your wife doesn't sound boring to me. There's a creative streak pulsing through her and brightening a canvas. That would be something I'd find most interesting!


----------



## CraigBesuden

It all depends on what you want. I’m too naughty for her but she’d make a good mother. Be sure you’re willing to be a G-rated Ned Flanders for life because that’s what she wants.

Expect her to be LD and seldom if ever orgasm. Women who don’t masturbate often have difficulty orgasming. Also don’t be surprised if she would marry a guy she’s not physically attracted to.


----------



## MJJEAN

Married-Man said:


> Thanks for the thoughtfulness and insight.
> 
> BTW how odd is this: There is never open mouth "French" kissing and rarely hand holding. " I love you" is very rare. I'm not good at saying it either. It's just not a phrase that is used by anyone in my house. (2 sons 15 and 13).
> 
> It's the vulnerability and emotional closeness that's not up to snuff. I sense it but My guess is she's ok with where things are or at least She wouldn't ever bring it up as a problem and would never dream of counseling. No money problems.
> 
> She is not unattractive to my physically- but
> It's tough to imagine doing these things that have been suggested... we are more like legally linked cohabitating coparenting FWB than passionate lovers. Sometimes i question my feelings and catch myself taking for granted. She'll just put up with whatever and not complain... desperately avoids conflict. I seek it sometimes to address these things and she just shuts down and cries.


In previous posts you mentioned more than once that your wife is not an explorer with her lack of curiosity and that she is pleasant. She surrounds herself with pleasant things. She thinks pleasant thoughts and engages in pleasant hobbies. She avoids confrontation because confrontation is unpleasant. 

Then you list some fairly vanilla sex acts that she you believe she would never participate in.

Combined with the lack of demonstrative physical and verbal affection, she is just not a passionate or expressive person. She's not interested in strong feelings. She is, basically, happy swimming in the shallow end of the pool.

Someone should have told 21 year old you that it is possible to find women who are passionate and expressive without being drama queens. The past is the past, though, and cannot be changed. What can be changed is the future. 

You have the option of working with her. Have you ever had frank talks about sex with her? For example, a naive woman may not understand how much many men really do enjoy giving oral. Where would she have learned that? Not from her previous relationships, not from adult videos, not from her pleasant books. She may think it's icky and why would she allow you to do something icky? If she truly understood that you really do desire this act and that it is not icky at all to you, she might be open to it.

Have you asked her to be more emotionally expressive? Have you explained that spontaneous hugs and I love you's would make you happier? Have you lead by example and been more expressive yourself?


You have the option of accepting her as is and being content with what you have.

You have the option of ending the marriage and searching for a compatible woman with a slightly more passionate and curious nature.





manfromlamancha said:


> I do understand all the criticism aimed at the OP and maybe some of it is justified - however - I do sense that his wife is wired very differently from the norm.


I think it's the lack of curiosity. Humans tend to be rather curious. It's a common shared trait. Absence of curiosity is actually odd for us.


----------



## manwithnoname

Married-Man said:


> Guys,
> 
> Imagine you're 21 and you meet a very nice and pretty shy 19 yo lady in college. Early on you learn she:
> 
> Is Phi beta
> hasn't ever been drunk or high
> Hasn't ever had alcohol or coffee
> has never stolen or lied
> Never swears
> Has Never seen porn or even sought it out
> Doesn't have any interest or curiosity in any of the above
> Is very naive
> is a virgin and only ever had one relationship with a man (the height of its physical intimacy was him trying to feel her up and and her lying there confused and pushing his hand away)
> 
> Although it might seem religious based - her lifestyle choice behavior is so g rated just because she is so innocently naive and shy and seems embarrassed/turned off by all the vice like things described.
> 
> 
> Absolutely ***ZERO*** drama - none whatsoever. Everything is just calmly blissfully PG rated and she is seemingly always agreeable and amenable to whatever messes around and but won't have sex though.
> 
> Mutual attraction but would any of the above be a red flag to you?


Wait..you _want_ a drunken, stoned, potty mouthed, porn watching, thieving, lying, promiscuous drama queen?


Be grateful you didn't get that....


----------



## CraigBesuden

Married-Man said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can I ask you your age? It sounds like you are questioning your life decisions.
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty common in mid-life where people start to feel like their life is "coming to an end" and this is their last chance to experience "the thrill". Unfortunately, this kind of thinking is less about external inputs and more about self.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Me 49; her 47
> 
> You are probably right. Regret previous missed opportunities and not doing more oat sewing.
Click to expand...

Women usually regret having had too many sexual encounters. Men wish they’d done more.

Totally normal to feel this way. Don’t act on it.


----------



## StillSearching

She's really nothing like that......She just put you in the friends zone and you don't know it yet.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

OP, when you look back at your life, what are some of your favorite memories? I dont know about you or anyone else, but my favorite memories are always part of the journey, not the destination. No matter what it is. Most stories I've heard people tell, the memories they share, bad times and good they look back on fondly and retell the stories, it's always related to the journey, not the destination. Enjoy the ride with her here and now. 

I could tell 1000 stories of my favorite memories with my wife. Maybe 3 of them are sex related. We enjoy our sex life a lot too. Just had a little cuddle lovin this morning before she left for work as a matter of fact.  

No matter how sexual she could possibly be, you can always get stuck in the mindset you are in now. Needing more more more! Stinkfist. Finger, knuckle, elbow, shoulder... it's never enough. Drop that mindset. I would say she isn't the issue here at all. 

What else is going on in your life that could be causing you to get these feelings that you are missing something? Do you think there could be something else that's making you question everything and the path you are currently walking?


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

CraigBesuden said:


> Women usually regret having had too many sexual encounters. Men wish they’d done more.
> 
> Totally normal to feel this way. Don’t act on it.


I wish she was my only. I regret every other one of them. It could have been, but I blew it.


----------



## Diana7

manwithnoname said:


> Wait..you _want_ a drunken, stoned, potty mouthed, porn watching, thieving, lying, promiscuous drama queen?
> 
> 
> Be grateful you didn't get that....


Some people don't know when they are well off. He has 99% of what he wants but is pining for the 1% he thinks he is missing out on.


----------



## uhtred

"interesting" comes in many forms. I don't drink, do drugs, party, etc, but do other things I find interesting. For some people, fortunately including my wife, that is completely fine. Its about compatibility.

Some people have very limited sexual experience early in life because they have little interest in sex, others because they were to shy to initiate, but can be wild passionate lovers given the chance. Again, all about compatibility.

If you are married, you should love the person you are married to. If you can't then the marriage has little value


----------



## Rowan

I'm just wondering if there's maybe a new Niki Minaj, at work or somewhere else in his life, that's suddenly causing the OP to second guess life with the June Cleaver he married?


----------



## heartsbeating

Rowan said:


> I'm just wondering if there's maybe a new Niki Minaj, at work or somewhere else in his life, that's suddenly causing the OP to second guess life with the June Cleaver he married?


I wondered a similar thing.


----------



## Young at Heart

Faithful Wife said:


> @Married-Man
> 
> Please start saying I love you to your wife and kids. At least once a week. Start making it normal to do that. It’s important.


:iagree:

The power of affirmations are incredible in initiating change.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Rowan said:


> I'm just wondering if there's maybe a new Niki Minaj, at work or somewhere else in his life, that's suddenly causing the OP to second guess life with the June Cleaver he married?


 Could be, but I expect it's as much an issue of wanting what you don't have. if he had his wh***/nikki minaj he'd be pining for an innocent trustworthy woman. If he does have one at work it would suck for him to screw up his marriage and then regret losing his wife. A way to common occurrence around here.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Rowan said:


> I'm just wondering if there's maybe a new Niki Minaj, at work or somewhere else in his life, that's suddenly causing the OP to second guess life with the June Cleaver he married?


I hope he just means whatever he fantasizes that Nicki would be like. Not what the actual Nicki is like.

I love her too and heck yeah I’d love to experience some of her life, once. Like party with her at some VIP club for a great night of drugs and lots of her hot men hanging around. 

But honestly there are not many men who could actually be with her or be her lover. I mean come on now...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LDZX4ooRsWs


----------



## heartsbeating

I'm not a fan of Minaj... but there's Darling Nikki that sparked music censorship/parental advisory labels.

OP - have you had any realizations since starting this thread?


----------



## Adelais

Married-Man said:


> Guys,
> 
> Imagine you're 21 and you meet a very nice and pretty shy 19 yo lady in college. Early on you learn she:
> 
> Is Phi beta
> hasn't ever been drunk or high
> Hasn't ever had alcohol or coffee
> has never stolen or lied
> Never swears
> Has Never seen porn or even sought it out
> Doesn't have any interest or curiosity in any of the above
> Is very naive
> is a virgin and only ever had one relationship with a man (the height of its physical intimacy was him trying to feel her up and and her lying there confused and pushing his hand away)
> 
> Although it might seem religious based - her lifestyle choice behavior is so g rated just because she is so innocently naive and shy and seems embarrassed/turned off by all the vice like things described.
> 
> 
> Absolutely ***ZERO*** drama - none whatsoever. Everything is just calmly blissfully PG rated and she is seemingly always agreeable and amenable to whatever messes around and but won't have sex though.
> 
> Mutual attraction but would any of the above be a red flag to you?


Why are you bothered that she hasn't participated in illegal, rebellious or immoral things and hasn't drunk coffee?

Maybe she has spent her time:

1. Running marathons and winning first place
2. Becoming the principal ballerina for a major company
3. Working on becoming a Nobel Prize winner
4. Is the best friend in the world to any friend she has
5. Is an amazing investor and plans to be a millionaire by the time she is 25
6. Is writing a book that will be an inspiration to many people
7. Is perfecting her skills on a musical instrument and will play solo for the Queen of England
8. Has become an expert skiier and will participate in the Olympics
9. Has personally knitted 1000 caps that she donates to orphans in Russia
10. Speaks 4 languages fluently and wants to become a translator at the UN.
11. Or maybe she is just at peace living her simple life one day at a time, waiting for a simple man who will love sharing a peaceful life with her.


Really, you are judging her from a warped frame of mind. Doing drugs or being a sexual maniac don't make one "interesting" to everyone.

Just let this girl go so she can find someone worthy of her.


----------



## Girl_power

It just sounds like you are in a rut. Stop being negative and try switching things up a little instead of wishing on a shooting star she will turn into Nicki Minaj. 

First you need to improve intimacy. Start with I love you’s, hugs, kisses, and complementing her. Focus on the good. 

Why don’t you light some candles, run a bubble bath and relax and join her. Spend more Intimate time with her and you will see the intimacy grow. 

The grass is greener where you water it. Your wife sounds amazing to me. Spend more time appreciating her instead of wishing she was different.


----------



## southbound

jlg07 said:


> Married-Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> So that was my wife when I met her in 1991.
> 
> Really hasn't changed at all. Not necessarily a bad thing - it's just very predictable.
> 
> Wanna have an adult beverage or --- hey weed is legal now... wanna try something new? Not happening.
> 
> Different strokes for different folks.
> 
> Sounds like I'm judging but is it odd never to have experienced these things or even be remotely curious about them let alone actively avoiding them?
> 
> June Cleaver vs. Nikki Minnaj.
> 
> 
> 
> I would MUCH RATHER have June Cleaver than Nikki Minnaj (ugh) -- really why would you want to deal with that?
> She's a nice person, doesn't do drama, so WHAT if she doesn't want to drink/smoke, etc.?
> 
> You've said she is willing to try stuff with you in bed -- what more do you want? She tried dirty talk because you wanted it. So, she wasn't good at it --- were you great at everything the first time? If she keeps it up, she can get better. If you are too vanilla having sex, TALK to her about some of the other stuff you'd like to do and try it out. I wouldn't go from vanilla to full dungeon BDSM, but there are TONS of things to do in between that.
> 
> Good Lord, you should be happy she's not out trying to bang half of the church congregation.! Have you READ some of the stories on here? Be grateful you have the type of wife you do. If you need variation in sex, work with HER and you can both get the experience together.
Click to expand...

I agree. I can’t figure out what’s supposed to be negative about any of it.

It’s strange when we live in a culture where drinking, weed, etc, is so expected and common that when we find someone who doesn’t do it, we think it’s a red flag.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

Married-Man said:


> Guys,
> 
> Imagine you're 21 and you meet a very nice and pretty shy 19 yo lady in college. Early on you learn she:
> 
> Is Phi beta
> hasn't ever been drunk or high
> Hasn't ever had alcohol or coffee
> has never stolen or lied
> Never swears
> Has Never seen porn or even sought it out
> Doesn't have any interest or curiosity in any of the above
> Is very naive
> is a virgin and only ever had one relationship with a man (the height of its physical intimacy was him trying to feel her up and and her lying there confused and pushing his hand away)
> 
> Although it might seem religious based - her lifestyle choice behavior is so g rated just because she is so innocently naive and shy and seems embarrassed/turned off by all the vice like things described.
> 
> Absolutely ***ZERO*** drama - none whatsoever. Everything is just calmly blissfully PG rated and she is seemingly always agreeable and amenable to whatever messes around and but won't have sex though.
> 
> Mutual attraction but would any of the above be a red flag to you?


A red flag? She sounds like an automaton, not a human being. An extremely *boring* automaton.

You might as well get yourself a dog. Actually, a dog sounds *more* exciting than the Stepford Wife you're describing above.

*ETA*: Oh ffs. I thought this was a *hypothetical* question just to get a discussion going and I see you actually married this woman and she's real, not a hypothetical. Yikes!!! That was no fair to frame the question this way and not tell us it was about the woman you actually married. However, I'm not erasing my opinion because it's still the truth (to me). As another poster so aptly put it, there's something "Stepfordian" about this woman.

I wish you lots of luck.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Adelais said:


> Why are you bothered that she hasn't participated in illegal, rebellious or immoral things and hasn't drunk coffee?
> 
> Maybe she has spent her time:
> 
> 1. Running marathons and winning first place
> 2. Becoming the principal ballerina for a major company
> 3. Working on becoming a Nobel Prize winner
> 4. Is the best friend in the world to any friend she has
> 5. Is an amazing investor and plans to be a millionaire by the time she is 25
> 6. Is writing a book that will be an inspiration to many people
> 7. Is perfecting her skills on a musical instrument and will play solo for the Queen of England
> 8. Has become an expert skiier and will participate in the Olympics
> 9. Has personally knitted 1000 caps that she donates to orphans in Russia
> 10. Speaks 4 languages fluently and wants to become a translator at the UN.
> 11. Or maybe she is just at peace living her simple life one day at a time, waiting for a simple man who will love sharing a peaceful life with her.
> 
> 
> Really, you are judging her from a warped frame of mind. Doing drugs or being a sexual maniac don't make one "interesting" to everyone.
> 
> *Just let this girl go so she can find someone worthy of her.*


"Worthy" of her may not be, isn't really, the most accurate word or phrase to use here. 

Perhaps "more compatible" or "more in synch" with is a better phrase if one were to recap your bolded statement. 

She's different, yes, but all differences between persons *don't equate* to "one is a better person than the other".


----------



## Mr.Married

What are you doing ??? Are you complaining about her ????? Really ????


I went to the store and bought some white bread. I knew it was white bread when I bought it. I wanted white bread.

When I got home I could not believe the bread wasn't wheat! It's the breads fault ! The bread must change! Damn the bread !!!!


----------



## Casual Observer

Diana7 said:


> My husband has never taken illegal drugs, smoked, rarely drinks, doesn't watch porn, has never had sex outside marriage and hates conflict as well. Rather than think that is 'boring', (its not), I LOVE being married to such an amazing awesome man of integrity and such strong moral values, and feel very blessed that he wanted to marry me. I think its great to have a partner who is so very different from the norm, who doesn't just go along with the flow, who is their own person.
> 
> Discontentment is deadly for a marriage. I feel pretty angry on her behalf that you see goodness as so very boring. Its really not. You are a very blessed man and I feel for her SO much that she must sense how disappointed with her you are. Some people will never be happy no matter what they have. Sheesh.
> 
> OH and BTW stop with the porn and treat your wife with more love and respect. Enjoy the sex you do have with her, and stop thinking of what other women in the porn films may do, its not real life, they are acting. Many women in porn films actually hate sex.


Interesting; I’m very much as you describe your husband but my wife doesn’t see those same qualities as something exciting or passion-arousing. Sigh.


----------



## Blondilocks

The OP hasn't posted on this thread since the day he started it. Looks like he isn't interested in it anymore.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

Blondilocks said:


> The OP hasn't posted on this thread since the day he started it. Looks like he isn't interested in it anymore.


LOL. He's probably in a coma from boredom. :laugh:


----------



## Married-Man

I'm still here...

Took a break but today kind of got back to the same mindset as when I started this. 

Not disagreeing with the people that say the problem is with me. probably some self esteem/depression. I can't really see going to a therapist and talking about it. 

The hugs and I love yous seem hard for either one to initiate --- and I don't disagree that they're powerful. So that intimacy... it's like we are too above showing that. 

I brought it up not too long ago and said there wasn't much intimacy - and she thought I was talking about sex and I said no emotional intimacy and she didn't even understand what I meant. And when i ask what do we do together or talk about other than work/kids ... it became "conflict" and she felt attacked and shut down.

It's all very boring and responsible and scheduled and routine and scripted and predictable and expected. No challenges or surprises or excitement. There will be no more new experiences it seems. Our kids are 15 and 13. We've hired a baby sitter once and had a date night. She is perfectly happy staying home reading and making pictures. She lives the life of a 10 year old or a 90-year old. And she seems really content with things this way or would never dream of making an issue out of it. 


Thanks for the responses and for reading. 

The fix is to be thankful and appreciative for what I have and not focus on what I think I want or am missing.. easier said and that's where meds or counseling would probably be needed to get there and I would have trouble pursuing that.


----------



## Casual Observer

Married-Man said:


> I'm still here...
> 
> Took a break but today kind of got back to the same mindset as when I started this.
> 
> Not disagreeing with the people that say the problem is with me. probably some self esteem/depression. I can't really see going to a therapist and talking about it.
> 
> The hugs and I love yous seem hard for either one to initiate --- and I don't disagree that they're powerful. So that intimacy... it's like we are too above showing that.
> 
> I brought it up not too long ago and said there wasn't much intimacy - and she thought I was talking about sex and I said no emotional intimacy and she didn't even understand what I meant. And when i ask what do we do together or talk about other than work/kids ... it became "conflict" and she felt attacked and shut down.
> 
> It's all very boring and responsible and scheduled and routine and scripted and predictable and expected. No challenges or surprises or excitement. There will be no more new experiences it seems. Our kids are 15 and 13. We've hired a baby sitter once and had a date night. She is perfectly happy staying home reading and making pictures. She lives the life of a 10 year old or a 90-year old. And she seems really content with things this way or would never dream of making an issue out of it.
> 
> 
> Thanks for the responses and for reading.
> 
> The fix is to be thankful and appreciative for what I have and not focus on what I think I want or am missing.. easier said and *that's where meds or counseling would probably be needed to get there and I would have trouble pursuing that.*


Why? Not the meds; they're not the answer to everything, but why wouldn't you pursuit counseling?


----------



## Blondilocks

"That she doesn't drink/smoke/swear is ok but it's kind of representative of an avoidance to try new things. Like wouldn't you want to at least know what weed or alcohol is like at least? Check the box? *Wouldn't you like to at least try watching porn or deep throating/swallowing or anal -- just to know what it's like ?"*

Seriously, have you been hankering to deep-throat/swallowing and having an object shoved up your butt? Why don't you try it first and then you can extol the virtues and pleasure you experienced.

You bemoan the lack of emotional closeness but, you won't do anything to bridge the gap. You can take her hand and hold it all on your own. It may take time for it to become natural for the both of you. You can say "I love you" all on your own and keep saying it until it becomes natural. You can get the two of you into marriage counseling and learn how to talk without her breaking into tears. You can plan some interesting trips or activities for the two of you.

You can also google why heterosexual men enjoy anal - it might surprise you. And, while you're at it look up the possible side effects for the recipient.

In short, there is a lot you can do to improve your marriage. But, no one can do it for you. And, whining just gets old really fast.


----------



## Married-Man

There have been some good suggestions here - most seem to suggest being more assertive in the planning.

I guess I'm just venting.. mid-life stuff here.

I think it comes down to our personalities. In some ways we are yin/yang -- but in ways that I'm dissatisfied with we are yin/yin.. example:

When we were dating -- 1991 -- really into each other - lots of makeout/2nd base stuff... but I would always initiate. One day I tried a little experiment -- I didn't initiate at all. Now I know she was into it -- but she was very timid/reserved non-aggressive. So we just sort of lay on the floor holding hands for like 15 min in silence... usually we were all over each other (if I initiated). I guess this could be labeled as passive-aggressive covert contract crap on my part - but I just wondered. If I didn't initiate -- would she? 

Eventually, she says, "why don't you want to kiss me"? Or something... So I just said - why don't you want to kiss me? And a little back and forth -- but I could tell she really really had to get out of her comfort zone to kiss me... but it was awkward... This is all in college. Another time we're lying down together -- more silence... for like 15-20 minutes... I'm just thinking to myself -- god this is just painfully awkward -- I think I realized she must sense it too and eventually it will become self-evident that we should just split. Finally, she says "what are you thinking about" so I say what are you thinking about? now truthfully, I thought this weird passive silence is just strange -- she has nothing to say and let's just stop. And long pause -- she says I was thinking I love you.

Oh wow -- while I thought the prolonged silence was weird - meanwhile she was blissfully content and comfortable just lying there. 

The yin/yin thing is the passivity. I saw a thread here where a lady was so fed up that her husband would not step up and take control of her pleasure.. after many times of her telling her what she wants and needs -- she was adamant and demanded oral and whatever else.. I read that and I just thought wow -- there is a lady that can tell her man what she wants and isn't too shy and embarrassed about insisting and demanding her needs are met. That lady wants it and has no problem making it known is really hot.

My wife could never do that --- she could never bring herself to demand something or ask for what she wants. That would be a confrontation -- it is much better to silently pretend everything is just peachy and smile and go along as if it is... The only way I have to test this is to not initiate.. after a few days she will just grab my hand and put on her arm and move it back and forth a bit... so as to say -- ok start massaging me now --- only she will never ever speak the words verbally. Imagine trying to get her to do dirty talk. When I did -- all she would say is I don't know what to say.. I said can you just try? She would only agree to try if literally wrote out a list of phrases and words for her to say. So now -- that is what has happened ever since -- like a broken record. I can't really bring myself to tell her -- the thing that is hot about it is the moaning and stuff and -- suggests the woman it is really into it which is exciting to me, reading a script on defeats the purpose -- cuz I know it is fake... better than silence I guess. Stepfordian perhaps.


----------



## SunCMars

The thing is....

The world is getting darker and dirtier by the moment. 

Mankind is going backwards and getting closer to our Darwinian relatives, not closer to our Philosophical Aims or Spiritual Prophets.

When you get home, you see none of this.

"Oh, what a relief that is!" 

Eh?



THRD-


----------



## Married-Man

SunCMars said:


> The thing is....
> 
> 
> 
> The world is getting darker and dirtier by the moment.
> 
> 
> 
> Mankind is going backwards and getting closer to our Darwinian relatives, not closer to our Philosophical Aims or Spiritual Prophets.
> 
> 
> 
> When you get home, you see none of this.
> 
> 
> 
> "Oh, what a relief that is!"
> 
> 
> 
> Eh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THRD-




Thanks, I always appreciate your posts - each one a poetic enigma. 

So you're saying this is not a problem.


----------



## SunCMars

Married-Man said:


> Thanks, I always appreciate your posts - each one a poetic enigma.
> 
> So you're saying this is not a problem.


Thanks, we try.

Everything good seems to arrive as another day's, ways, problem.

This good, need not be viewed as dead wood.

*It is a problem because you say it is.* 

For many here, we see your wife as a blessing.

Yes, blessings can be a tad shy of bliss. 

Your wife means well, take that to the grave.


----------



## jlg07

MM, can try to work on getting your communications with your wife about intimacy and sex better?
You said you tried:
"I brought it up not too long ago and said there wasn't much intimacy - and she thought I was talking about sex and I said no emotional intimacy and she didn't even understand what I meant. And when i ask what do we do together or talk about other than work/kids ... it became "conflict" and she felt attacked and shut down.
"
THIS is a great starting place for you. Talk with her: "Honey, when we spoke about intimacy last time, you got really upset and shut down. I think we need to get better at discussing this stuff, so can you tell me WHY you felt attacked and shut down the conversation? I'd LOVE to be able to talk to you about this stuff, and I think a married couple NEEDS to talk about this stuff without feeling bad, upset, attacked, etc."

Do you think something like that would work? Very calm/low key. DON'T make it about HER not talking, or HER not taking the initiative. Make it about BOTH OF YOU needing to communicate better.

As for talking dirty, there are ANY NUMBER of websites that have "phrases" she can use -- look up a bunch of those and tell her if you read all of these, it will give you a better idea what I like, and maybe YOU would like it too -- it could be fun together to do this".


----------



## CraigBesuden

Married-Man said:


> Guys,
> 
> Imagine you're 21 and you meet a very nice and pretty shy 19 yo lady in college. Early on you learn she:
> 
> Is Phi beta
> hasn't ever been drunk or high
> Hasn't ever had alcohol or coffee
> has never stolen or lied
> Never swears
> Has Never seen porn or even sought it out
> Doesn't have any interest or curiosity in any of the above
> Is very naive
> is a virgin and only ever had one relationship with a man (the height of its physical intimacy was him trying to feel her up and and her lying there confused and pushing his hand away)
> 
> Although it might seem religious based - her lifestyle choice behavior is so g rated just because she is so innocently naive and shy and seems embarrassed/turned off by all the vice like things described.
> 
> 
> Absolutely ***ZERO*** drama - none whatsoever. Everything is just calmly blissfully PG rated and she is seemingly always agreeable and amenable to whatever messes around and but won't have sex though.
> 
> Mutual attraction but would any of the above be a red flag to you?


No. As long as she accepted me for who I am, and I wouldn't expect her to change. The only thing I might be concerned about is that she has a sex drive. As long as she'd be a willing sex partner in marriage, I'd be fine with that. I'd be looking for a good potential wife and mother.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Married-Man said:


> Guys,
> 
> Imagine you're 21 and you meet a very nice and pretty shy 19 yo lady in college. Early on you learn she:
> 
> Is Phi beta
> hasn't ever been drunk or high
> Hasn't ever had alcohol or coffee
> has never stolen or lied
> Never swears
> Has Never seen porn or even sought it out
> Doesn't have any interest or curiosity in any of the above
> Is very naive
> is a virgin and only ever had one relationship with a man (the height of its physical intimacy was him trying to feel her up and and her lying there confused and pushing his hand away)
> 
> Although it might seem religious based - her lifestyle choice behavior is so g rated just because she is so innocently naive and shy and seems embarrassed/turned off by all the vice like things described.
> 
> 
> Absolutely ***ZERO*** drama - none whatsoever. Everything is just calmly blissfully PG rated and she is seemingly always agreeable and amenable to whatever messes around and but won't have sex though.
> 
> *Mutual attraction but would any of the above be a red flag to you?*


Only for those without the same 'constitution'.


----------



## CatholicDad

No offense brother, but you sound like dang fool. A pathetic, porn addicted, complaining fool.

You didn’t marry her? Did I read that correctly? You don’t tell her you love her? I’d say she probably doesn’t feel very safe with you. Sounds like all you want is a partner you can recreate your little porn fantasies with. I can imagine that any good woman would shut down....she’s given up on her knight in shining armor- you obviously ain’t it.

Ween yourself off the porn and someday you might see things for how they really are. 

Sorry if I’m harsh... porn destroys men- I think you might be the poster boy example of this. Thank you though... I’m going to try and be a better man myself after reading this... I’m more like you than I care to admit (free from porn though).


----------



## aquarius1

Married-Man said:


> There have been some good suggestions here - most seem to suggest being more assertive in the planning.
> 
> I guess I'm just venting.. mid-life stuff here.....
> 
> The yin/yin thing is the passivity. I saw a thread here where a lady was so fed up that her husband would not step up and take control of her pleasure.. after many times of her telling her what she wants and needs -- she was adamant and demanded oral and whatever else.. I read that and I just thought wow -- there is a lady that can tell her man what she wants and isn't too shy and embarrassed about insisting and demanding her needs are met. That lady wants it and has no problem making it known is really hot.
> 
> My wife could never do that --- she could never bring herself to demand something or ask for what she wants. That would be a confrontation -- it is much better to silently pretend everything is just peachy and smile and go along as if it is... The only way I have to test this is to not initiate.. after a few days she will just grab my hand and put on her arm and move it back and forth a bit... so as to say -- ok start massaging me now --- only she will never ever speak the words verbally. Imagine trying to get her to do dirty talk. When I did -- all she would say is I don't know what to say.. I said can you just try? She would only agree to try if literally wrote out a list of phrases and words for her to say. So now -- that is what has happened ever since -- like a broken record. I can't really bring myself to tell her -- the thing that is hot about it is the moaning and stuff and -- suggests the woman it is really into it which is exciting to me, reading a script on defeats the purpose -- cuz I know it is fake... better than silence I guess. Stepfordian perhaps.


I see a lot of use of the word NEVER. She would never do this, or do that. How can you be sure?

The short answer to this situation is "Why should you change? Because YOU are the one who WANTS the change"
She is not going to go from demure etc etc to anal, moaning and dirty talk in one day. This takes TIME. It took YEARS for it to get this way, and could well take a long time for things to turn around.

In the end, though, you need to know that you really did EVERYTHING that you possibly could. You resign yourself too easily in my opinion. This stuff takes HARD work, consistency and I dare say a bit of cocky self assuredness to proceed forward.

I'll relay my story because it's the only one I know. 
My husband and I have been married for 28 years, together for 33years. The past TWENTY fricking years have been almost sexless. SEXLESS my friend. Maybe 2-3 times a year! Why did we put up with it? I'll never know for sure since we were freaking animals before the children came along.
THe marriage deteriorated, as is expected. Two years ago both of us began talking divorce. Seriously. I saw lawyers, and so did he. We both wanted out. So much resentment on both sides. No listening. No changing.

Last year due to a couple of issues I decided that someone had to change. And Dr Gottman says its ME that had to change. Cause that's the only person that I could control.
I read a TON. Stopped going to sh*tty marriage sites that told me that my husband was an ass and selfish and should be more like a woman. Started learning. Really learning. Intense reading, videos.
I was ready for a change.
I started approaching my husband for intimacy on a regular basis. When I felt discouraged or falling into old patterns of thinking I corrected myself. I'm in it 100% or I'm OUT.
Guess what? He responded. I was speaking his language. I started expecting things in return, both inside and outside the bedroom.
My point is this. DON'T be a whiner. Don't be a doormat. Don't think emptying the dishwasher is going to get you laid. Explain to your wife that intimacy is important for you to express yourself. Anal etc will have to wait, shelve it for now.
Stop asking her to take the lead. TAKE THE LEAD if this is what you want. Just take it. Don't get discouraged, just fine tune your approach, learn as you go. You don't have to be a beast. Just be your best you. Lead her where you want to go. Don't b*tch about stuff. If you want to hold her hand, just take her hand! With time things will get better. But you cannot drop your guard and start whining for even a second! Oh, you'll fall back, but check yourself and forge ahead.
I'm not sure this helps. I hope something can resonate with you. Stop regretting your life and start LIVING it. NOW. Tomorrow may be too late.


----------



## AKA Broken Arrow

Me and my wife are close to you guys in age. Back when we met, she was a little wild but still a good girl at heart. We experimented sexually, got trashed together, did some drugs, etc. She had a mouth like a sailor and still does. The bartender at the bar where we met called us Jose and Cuervo lol.

Then, one day she quit smoking. Then, she got into grad school and earned a PhD. Today, she is a responsible, productive member of society. A great wife and mother. She’s still who she always was, just older and more mature today than she was back then.

My point is, the time for experimentation was back in your 20s. If she wasn’t like that back then, nothing is going to change that now. Just my opinion of course. Good luck to you both. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Married-Man

CatholicDad said:


> No offense brother, but you sound like dang fool. A pathetic, porn addicted, complaining fool.
> 
> You didn’t marry her? Did I read that correctly? You don’t tell her you love her? I’d say she probably doesn’t feel very safe with you. Sounds like all you want is a partner you can recreate your little porn fantasies with. I can imagine that any good woman would shut down....she’s given up on her knight in shining armor- you obviously ain’t it.
> 
> Ween yourself off the porn and someday you might see things for how they really are.
> 
> Sorry if I’m harsh... porn destroys men- I think you might be the poster boy example of this. Thank you though... I’m going to try and be a better man myself after reading this... I’m more like you than I care to admit (free from porn though).


And you might be the poster boy for low reading comprehension, bible thumping trolls. Blocking you Ned Flanders.


----------



## Married-Man

AKA Broken Arrow said:


> Me and my wife are close to you guys in age. Back when we met, she was a little wild but still a good girl at heart. We experimented sexually, got trashed together, did some drugs, etc. She had a mouth like a sailor and still does. The bartender at the bar where we met called us Jose and Cuervo lol.
> 
> Then, one day she quit smoking. Then, she got into grad school and earned a PhD. Today, she is a responsible, productive member of society. A great wife and mother. She’s still who she always was, just older and more mature today than she was back then.
> 
> My point is, the time for experimentation was back in your 20s. If she wasn’t like that back then, nothing is going to change that now. Just my opinion of course. Good luck to you both.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Fair point. It sure ain't happening now! Thx.


----------



## Married-Man

aquarius1 said:


> I see a lot of use of the word NEVER. She would never do this, or do that. How can you be sure?
> 
> The short answer to this situation is "Why should you change? Because YOU are the one who WANTS the change"
> She is not going to go from demure etc etc to anal, moaning and dirty talk in one day. This takes TIME. It took YEARS for it to get this way, and could well take a long time for things to turn around.
> 
> In the end, though, you need to know that you really did EVERYTHING that you possibly could. You resign yourself too easily in my opinion. This stuff takes HARD work, consistency and I dare say a bit of cocky self assuredness to proceed forward.
> 
> I'll relay my story because it's the only one I know.
> My husband and I have been married for 28 years, together for 33years. The past TWENTY fricking years have been almost sexless. SEXLESS my friend. Maybe 2-3 times a year! Why did we put up with it? I'll never know for sure since we were freaking animals before the children came along.
> THe marriage deteriorated, as is expected. Two years ago both of us began talking divorce. Seriously. I saw lawyers, and so did he. We both wanted out. So much resentment on both sides. No listening. No changing.
> 
> Last year due to a couple of issues I decided that someone had to change. And Dr Gottman says its ME that had to change. Cause that's the only person that I could control.
> I read a TON. Stopped going to sh*tty marriage sites that told me that my husband was an ass and selfish and should be more like a woman. Started learning. Really learning. Intense reading, videos.
> I was ready for a change.
> I started approaching my husband for intimacy on a regular basis. When I felt discouraged or falling into old patterns of thinking I corrected myself. I'm in it 100% or I'm OUT.
> Guess what? He responded. I was speaking his language. I started expecting things in return, both inside and outside the bedroom.
> My point is this. DON'T be a whiner. Don't be a doormat. Don't think emptying the dishwasher is going to get you laid. Explain to your wife that intimacy is important for you to express yourself. Anal etc will have to wait, shelve it for now.
> Stop asking her to take the lead. TAKE THE LEAD if this is what you want. Just take it. Don't get discouraged, just fine tune your approach, learn as you go. You don't have to be a beast. Just be your best you. Lead her where you want to go. Don't b*tch about stuff. If you want to hold her hand, just take her hand! With time things will get better. But you cannot drop your guard and start whining for even a second! Oh, you'll fall back, but check yourself and forge ahead.
> I'm not sure this helps. I hope something can resonate with you. Stop regretting your life and start LIVING it. NOW. Tomorrow may be too late.


Wow. Amazing that you turned it around. Thanks for sharing. Presently I don't have the mindset to pick a path and due to passivity on my part and sever conflict avoidance on hers - it's probably staying status quo for the foreseeable future.


One difference here is that you saw there was a need to change something and started doing work. She is very uncomfortable with conflict and not really able to process or admit problems it's just good enough and let's move on to something else and think about other things. anything that would lead to conflict or difficult conversations makes her very uncomfortable to the point that she shuts down and literally runs away and cries. Glad you fixed yours. But comparatively we are two emotional children  (Probably moreso me as everyone here will no doubt seize on) 

Thanks again.


----------



## Married-Man

jlg07 said:


> MM, can try to work on getting your communications with your wife about intimacy and sex better?
> You said you tried:
> "I brought it up not too long ago and said there wasn't much intimacy - and she thought I was talking about sex and I said no emotional intimacy and she didn't even understand what I meant. And when i ask what do we do together or talk about other than work/kids ... it became "conflict" and she felt attacked and shut down.
> "
> THIS is a great starting place for you. Talk with her: "Honey, when we spoke about intimacy last time, you got really upset and shut down. I think we need to get better at discussing this stuff, so can you tell me WHY you felt attacked and shut down the conversation? I'd LOVE to be able to talk to you about this stuff, and I think a married couple NEEDS to talk about this stuff without feeling bad, upset, attacked, etc."
> 
> Do you think something like that would work? Very calm/low key. DON'T make it about HER not talking, or HER not taking the initiative. Make it about BOTH OF YOU needing to communicate better.
> 
> As for talking dirty, there are ANY NUMBER of websites that have "phrases" she can use -- look up a bunch of those and tell her if you read all of these, it will give you a better idea what I like, and maybe YOU would like it too -- it could be fun together to do this".


It kind of defeats the purpose. When I brought it up initially. She just said she doesn't know how to talk dirty. Please tell me what to say. Ok so now I'm embarrassed but tell her a few phrases. And ever since every time it's the same phrases verbatim in the order. It's a foreign language to her. Imagine a non native English speaker saying "oh yeah, that has much coolness, dude!" in an accent. Like do they really get the vibe? The point is that having to instruct this and explain it works against the whole point. 

She identifies as extremely introverted and is even in a few introvert FB groups. 

At this point I don't care much about it. Maybe I'll just tell her to please not to feel like she is obligated to do this.


----------



## jlg07

Married-Man said:


> It kind of defeats the purpose. When I brought it up initially. She just said she doesn't know how to talk dirty. Please tell me what to say. Ok so now I'm embarrassed but tell her a few phrases. And ever since every time it's the same phrases verbatim in the order. It's a foreign language to her. Imagine a non native English speaker saying "oh yeah, that has much coolness, dude!" in an accent. Like do they really get the vibe? The point is that having to instruct this and explain it works against the whole point.
> 
> She identifies as extremely introverted and is even in a few introvert FB groups.
> 
> At this point I don't care much about it. Maybe I'll just tell her to please not to feel like she is obligated to do this.


I don't think it defeats the purpose AT ALL. You, to use your metaphor, expect her to speak the foreign language as if she is a native when she doesn't KNOW the language at all! WORK WITH HER to learn this. The BOTH of you should look at those sites and decide which you like and which you aren't comfortable with. She seems to be willing to TRY, but just doesn't know how. YOU need to help her in that. I bet if you made a concerted effort to do things like this TOGETHER, in a year, you may be amazed how far you get.


----------



## DTG

If you know she really loves you then with patience and perserverance youl have a keeper. For a start just make sure shes comfortable and let her know how amazing she is in bed anyway. 

Alot of Introverts need constant reassurance to help build confidence. For me as an introvert during most of my life singing was really hard and i found too much attention to my lack of singing didnt help but also not getting any push to sing didnt help either. Its a fine balance that hopefully with patience, observation and the very occaisonal little push will start weakening those barriers.

Maybe she struggles with a feeling of not being good enough when she feels pressure to change. Most introverts dont come out fighting to a challenge they back away.

Maybe try finding something not so intimate which she struggles with a help her overcome that. Success builds confidence.

Just love the woman.


----------



## DTG

Just realised your not young.......lol.
Alot of people would be happy to have those problems in a wife. Having been raised conservative and Christian myself i can understand her reluctance to do some of those things. Some of the sexual things you mentioned id imagine are just plain kinky to most people tho.


----------



## MaiChi

Married-Man said:


> Guys,
> 
> Imagine you're 21 and you meet a very nice and pretty shy 19 yo lady in college. Early on you learn she:
> 
> Is Phi beta
> hasn't ever been drunk or high
> Hasn't ever had alcohol or coffee
> has never stolen or lied
> Never swears
> Has Never seen porn or even sought it out
> Doesn't have any interest or curiosity in any of the above
> Is very naive
> is a virgin and only ever had one relationship with a man (the height of its physical intimacy was him trying to feel her up and and her lying there confused and pushing his hand away)
> 
> Although it might seem religious based - her lifestyle choice behavior is so g rated just because she is so innocently naive and shy and seems embarrassed/turned off by all the vice like things described.
> 
> 
> Absolutely *ZERO* drama - none whatsoever. Everything is just calmly blissfully PG rated and she is seemingly always agreeable and amenable to whatever messes around and but won't have sex though.
> 
> Mutual attraction but would any of the above be a red flag to you?


My own story is that I 
have never had alcohol, tea, or coffee, coca-cola, or anything with additives or caffeine 
never smoked anything
Do not steal
Do not lie deliberately 
Definitely do not use swear words ever
Have hobbies 
Lost my virginity at age 24, a few months before getting married, Have only ever had sex with this one man. 
If I perceive someone is arguing with me I stop talking or change the subject and there is nothing they can do to get me back on the arguing topic. I like only to discuss and never argue. 

I have been married for nearly 15 years and I married my first boyfriend and was his first girlfriend together for 9 years before we got married. Our parents were best friends. 
I grew up on a farm in a farming community but have changed direction. I studied Science at university (there for 11 years), have worked in USA, Australia, Ghana, Kenya, Tanzania, South Africa, Zimbabwe, Namibia, United Kingdom (where I live) Have three children on adopted. 

Can someone explain why this is a red flag.


----------



## Thinktank

Some of the replies are so surprising to me, I am 55, I married my wife in 1988. I could have described her exactly the same way. Over the years I have often heard how people envy our marriage and they ask for advice, more often than not, their problems stem from alcohol, pornography, fights over previous sex partners which tends to lead to a lack of intimacy. Guy, what is fun now really damages your future. Excessive drinking and feeling like crap the next day, having sex just because, dealing with drama, this is NOT happiness. Stop believing that waiting for someone who cares for you and genuinely loves you is a bad thing. I’ve been married to my best friend for over 30 years. So what if she had no experience, she certainly does now and it was with me. We learned about each other. I didn’t need a girl experienced in what some other dude likes and unlike many couples married as long as we have been, we still have a very active intimate relationship. Stop thinking you need sex now with anyone and think long term. I know I sound old fashioned but believe me, I am not. I just found an innocent, naive girl that has given me the greatest life ever and if I had to do it all over again I would wait for her again.


----------



## Ladyortiz602

Married-Man said:


> Guys,
> 
> Imagine you're 21 and you meet a very nice and pretty shy 19 yo lady in college. Early on you learn she:
> 
> Is Phi beta
> hasn't ever been drunk or high
> Hasn't ever had alcohol or coffee
> has never stolen or lied
> Never swears
> Has Never seen porn or even sought it out
> Doesn't have any interest or curiosity in any of the above
> Is very naive
> is a virgin and only ever had one relationship with a man (the height of its physical intimacy was him trying to feel her up and and her lying there confused and pushing his hand away)
> 
> Although it might seem religious based - her lifestyle choice behavior is so g rated just because she is so innocently naive and shy and seems embarrassed/turned off by all the vice like things described.
> 
> 
> Absolutely *ZERO* drama - none whatsoever. Everything is just calmly blissfully PG rated and she is seemingly always agreeable and amenable to whatever messes around and but won't have sex though.
> 
> Mutual attraction but would any of the above be a red flag to you?


Sounds like a keeper what type of person Would want someone that steals lies watches porn and has a lot of sex sounds like the perfect mother for a child someday She still really young and a lot of guys would kill to be with a virgin give her some time eventually she’s going to want to explore and you’ll be right there ready lol


----------



## hinterdir

Married-Man said:


> Guys,
> 
> Imagine you're 21 and you meet a very nice and pretty shy 19 yo lady in college. Early on you learn she:
> 
> Is Phi beta
> hasn't ever been drunk or high
> Hasn't ever had alcohol or coffee
> has never stolen or lied
> Never swears
> Has Never seen porn or even sought it out
> Doesn't have any interest or curiosity in any of the above
> Is very naive
> is a virgin and only ever had one relationship with a man (the height of its physical intimacy was him trying to feel her up and and her lying there confused and pushing his hand away)
> 
> Although it might seem religious based - her lifestyle choice behavior is so g rated just because she is so innocently naive and shy and seems embarrassed/turned off by all the vice like things described.
> 
> 
> Absolutely *ZERO* drama - none whatsoever. Everything is just calmly blissfully PG rated and she is seemingly always agreeable and amenable to whatever messes around and but won't have sex though.
> 
> Mutual attraction but would any of the above be a red flag to you?


Red flag?
I do not understand?
Why on Earth would that be a red flag?
Do you mean that you think it is all a front and she is hiding some past life of drugs and prostitution and this is only a mask?
If not then why would any of that be a bad thing.
Walk me through your thought process.


THIS IS 7 MONTHS OLD...
How do these things make it to the front of the feed as if they are brand new.....UGH.


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