# Seven plus years since she initiated



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Small fight this morning - after she turned me down in golden opportunity, no plans, quiet house - about her never starting up.

Not since March 2015, and that was only time since then year 2000. Once in 22 years.

“I have a different sex drive” says she. Yeah, like dead. She says “no” about 6 of my 10 attempts. Better than nothing but it’d be nice if she initiated sometimes. Your thoughts?


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

I’m not bothered about who initiates but being turned down would cause a serious problem.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Andy1001 said:


> I’m not bothered about who initiates but being turned down would cause a serious problem.


Big battle two years ago about her being able to “just say no.” (Nancy Reagan?) I said I need a reason. Today? “I’m just not interested” Ouch! Lol


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

If it’s shyness that’s one thing, but just mostly “no” because she doesn’t want to? Cannot relate and don’t blame you for being upset.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Seven years? You’re tolerating it. Hang in for another seven years. Nothing will change….nothing.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Sounds like my wife. She never initiates and the handful of times she has (maybe 5 or so in 10 years) its just her sitting in the chair and then she says "Wanna go have sex?". Now THATS seductive.

And I get turned down a lot too. I still try to initiate every day and am around a 50 percent success rate. Was around 40 percent a few months ago so its "improving". Eye roll while saying that.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Small fight this morning - after she turned me down in golden opportunity, no plans, quiet house - about her never starting up.
> 
> Not since March 2015, and that was only time since then year 2000. Once in 22 years.
> 
> “I have a different sex drive” says she. Yeah, like dead. She says “no” about 6 of my 10 attempts. Better than nothing but it’d be nice if she initiated sometimes. Your thoughts?


Her not initiating may be an issue for you. It isn't any big deal to me, have never even kept track of who initiated. I take the lead and my wife responds enthusiastically.. I can't actually recall a time she said "no". The full extent of her "initiation" is to ask "do you want to go lay down?" . 

The bigger issue IMO is how your wife responds to you initiating. I assume in 22 years you have had numerous "discussions" about the *why* of her rejection. Any of them in depth to find out what causes her to "not be interested".? My wife always talks about enjoying the "closeness", says even if she isn't "in the mood" in the moment, the romancing gets her "in the mood". Basically, she is always in the mood for some romance. Which doesn't necessarily end in and shouldnt always be about a sexual encounter. 

What is different 4 of 10 times? Maybe focus on what went "right" those times rather than focusing on the 6 when she "didn't care to".

Something about your marriage dynamic outside of the bedroom is killing your relationship inside. I assume you have discussed this many times. Maybe MC is appropriate?


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

It seems that sex is just not a thing for her. Have you asked her for a hall pass? She might be relieved.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

How many times a week are you having sex with her?


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

RebuildingMe said:


> Seven years? You’re tolerating it. Hang in for another seven years. Nothing will change….nothing.


Yeah but aside from leaving, what other option is there?

I know you said you had two sexless marriages. Is being single better? Maybe it is but is there constant sex for you now? Maybe it is better? I just hear all these nightmare stories about how meeting someone is tough and all the women say guys just want sex and all the men say women just want someone to take care of them? Even here I read both genders saying that sort of thing.

I guess my perception of being single at my age is a bit too skewed.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> ounds like my wife. She never initiates and the handful of times she has (maybe 5 or so in 10 years) its just her sitting in the chair and then she says "Wanna go have sex?". Now THATS seductive.


Honestly, sounds pretty seductive to me! Women IMO just aren't in general wired to be the initiator. They respond to the male chasing them. I have yet to see a doe chasing a buck, but she will facilitate the one she is interested in catching her if he chases her long enough.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Sfort said:


> It seems that sex is just not a thing for her. Have you asked her for a hall pass? She might be relieved.


I'm fairly certain less than .01% of married women would agree to a hall pass. IF that many?


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Rus47 said:


> Honestly, sounds pretty seductive to me! Women IMO just aren't in general wired to be the initiator. They respond to the male chasing them. I have yet to see a doe chasing a buck, but she will facilitate the one she is interested in catching her if he chases her long enough.


No but a lioness will turn its rear towards a male lion and squat down when she is ready


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Rus47 said:


> Honestly, sounds pretty seductive to me! Women IMO just aren't in general wired to be the initiator. They respond to the male chasing them. I have yet to see a doe chasing a buck, but she will facilitate the one she is interested in catching her if he chases her long enough.


You might be right its just the tone and the setting that isn't as she says "Want to go to McDonalds?" in the same manner


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I'm fairly certain less than .01% of married women would agree to a hall pass. IF that many?


That's not logical. She's not interested so you have to be not interested?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> No but a lioness will turn its rear towards a male lion and squat down when she is ready


As will the doe brace herself for the buck to mount her ( multiple times ). The key is the lioness will submit to her king, and sometimes even go rub on him to get him cranked up but doesn't chase him down. He has to be the initiator.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Sfort said:


> That's not logical. She's not interested so you have to be not interested?


Well yeah but that doesn't mean she is going to say "Oh OK go **** the neighbor".


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

So she turns you down most of the time but you still imagine that she's going to initiate?

News flash.....not going to happen.

This is what you've got. I'm sorry...it sucks and I can't relate. I'm not the biggest initiator because I'm somewhat responsive bur I rarely say no.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Well yeah but that doesn't mean she is going to say "Oh OK go **** the neighbor".


Have you asked?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Important question: how many times a month are you two having sex?

The way she turns you down sounds like someone who doesn't care about hurting your feelings, and knows you aren't going anywhere, and no matter how she talks to you you are going to still provide what you do for her in the relationship- she can treat you as crappy as she wants and nothing will change for her.


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

If it were me, the next time she asked me to kill a spider or open the pickle jar, my response would be, "no, I'm just not interested." But hey, that's just me.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> And I get turned down a lot too. I still try to initiate every day and am around a 50 percent success rate. Was around 40 percent a few months ago so its "improving". Eye roll while saying that.


This sounds more like clocking in to your job.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Your intro lacks so much info and background that it would be nearly impossible to determine anything. As far as we know you may be 40lbs over weight, bad grooming, and suck in bed. One of the main problems with TAM is that we as posters are only subject to the provided details by the original poster which I’m willing to bet leaves out “the bad” info about themselves a lot of the time


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Small fight this morning - after she turned me down in golden opportunity, no plans, quiet house - about her never starting up.
> 
> Not since March 2015, and that was only time since then year 2000. Once in 22 years.
> 
> “I have a different sex drive” says she. Yeah, like dead. She says “no” about 6 of my 10 attempts. Better than nothing but it’d be nice if she initiated sometimes. Your thoughts?


I understand why this would take some of the rejection out of it for you, so I sort of get why you want that. But you just can't expect someone who doesn't want sex as often as you to initiate. For all you know, they may already be having sex more than they really want, so why would they initiate? It's possible they never even want sex. 

I realize you may have already had these conversations, but have you asked her, How would I know if you were amenable to having sex? And then tell her, Because you know I get my feelings hurt when rejected, so I would like to avoid that if there's a way to know when you'd be a willing partner. Tell her, I'm in a position that I have to come begging, and I don't like that and also don't want to annoy you either, so how would I know without doing that dance? 

Maybe just be that honest. She may just say she doesn't want it period. Seems like it's not hard to tell when someone does want it, so to me, if someone doesn't show any signs, like affection or small flirtation, then they just don't want to. 

Good luck anyway. I would have given anything if my old bf who had ed had just told me that was the issue instead of keeping me hanging on and feeling rejected and confused. 

If she says just no sex, then tell her you need sex some way somehow sometimes and preferably with your wife, but does she have any other suggestions or solutions. Then just wait for an answer and see if she pops out with anything that either makes it better for her or for you. If not, you are stuck. 

From here, I can't tell if you two just have a sex drive incompatibility or if she is just fine with not doing it at all. I mean, a lot of men and women are not and never will be on the same schedule, and if they are, lucky for them, because they're usually not, at least not after married and settled in, kids, all that.

If she feels she does want sex sometimes but isn't able to convey that to you some way, by little actions or by words, then say, Then to make this haggling about sex stop, we need to schedule sex. Go get the calendar and negotiate and mark it down for every Saturday night or whatever (or every other one, whatever she'll agree to). And then agree it doesn't even need to be discussed, but that it is a date, see you Saturday.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Yeah but aside from leaving, what other option is there?
> 
> I know you said you had two sexless marriages. Is being single better? Maybe it is but is there constant sex for you now? Maybe it is better? I just hear all these nightmare stories about how meeting someone is tough and all the women say guys just want sex and all the men say women just want someone to take care of them? Even here I read both genders saying that sort of thing.
> 
> I guess my perception of being single at my age is a bit too skewed.


The best way for me to describe it is the sex frequency is about the same as my M, 2x a week. However, here are the big differences for me:

1) we don’t live together and with kids schedule, we see each other (where we can have sex) about 2x/week. So my expectations are naturally lower due to schedules, so I feel we are hitting close to 100%

2) because it’s 1-2x/week, it is usually anything goes animal sex. Oral, anal, multiple times in a weekend. She’s very into it and very present, which is not what I had prior. I’ve learned quality over quantity is more appealing for me, so it works. 

3) we spend about 6 nights a month with sleepovers. We both know the schedules, so there are definitely 4-6 straight nights where I know we aren’t going to have sex because of work (she works 2 jobs) and kids. And that’s okay because I know that going in and have adjusted my expectations according.

4) if we lived together (it ain’t never going to happen), my expectations would go up and I’d be disappointed just like 80% of men in marriages are.

As an example, we just got back from a blended cruise 4 day cruise with 5 kids. I knew sex in the rooms would be difficult as the kids range from 10-18 and have all different schedules. So she initiated a BJ on the 21 and over sun deck. There must have been 20 people within earshot laying in their little covered “huts”, don’t know what they are called. Also, a HJ on the plane on the way back at 1am while most were sleeping. Both were hot and something I never would have received from a wife, only a girlfriend does that from my experience.

6) it still varies and she’s not always in the mood but doesn’t really ever turn me down and often initiates. For me, this works fine and I don’t spend headspace thinking about sex, or lack thereof, like I did when I was married.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> Her not initiating may be an issue for you. It isn't any big deal to me, have never even kept track of who initiated. I take the lead and my wife responds enthusiastically.. I can't actually recall a time she said "no". The full extent of her "initiation" is to ask "do you want to go lay down?" .
> 
> The bigger issue IMO is how your wife responds to you initiating. I assume in 22 years you have had numerous "discussions" about the *why* of her rejection. Any of them in depth to find out what causes her to "not be interested".? My wife always talks about enjoying the "closeness", says even if she isn't "in the mood" in the moment, the romancing gets her "in the mood". Basically, she is always in the mood for some romance. Which doesn't necessarily end in and shouldnt always be about a sexual encounter.
> 
> ...


We talk of course. she


DownByTheRiver said:


> I understand why this would take some of the rejection out of it for you, so I sort of get why you want that. But you just can't expect someone who doesn't want sex as often as you to initiate. For all you know, they may already be having sex more than they really want, so why would they initiate? It's possible they never even want sex.
> 
> I realize you may have already had these conversations, but have you asked her, How would I know if you were amenable to having sex? And then tell her, Because you know I get my feelings hurt when rejected, so I would like to avoid that if there's a way to know when you'd be a willing partner. Tell her, I'm in a position that I have to come begging, and I don't like that and also don't want to annoy you either, so how would I know without doing that dance?
> 
> ...


Good post. Yes, I’ve had talks like you mentioned. We have a standing Sunday sex date which works. Couple years. Feels like a legal contract at times. I do call all the shots in bed. Gets old.

I’ve come to realization she will never initiate again. And that sucks. What am I, chopped liver? a woman hit on me few years ago in a bar. Lovely blonde. nice being hit on.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> If it’s shyness that’s one thing, but just mostly “no” because she doesn’t want to? Cannot relate and don’t blame you for being upset.


No cuz she is “not interested” or “hadn’t thought of that,” um, she never thinks of that


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

RebuildingMe said:


> Seven years? You’re tolerating it. Hang in for another seven years. Nothing will change….nothing.


Once in 22. Once we get that motor revved, it’s good. But why cant she ever start? I know nothing will change. Get good head


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> As will the doe brace herself for the buck to mount her ( multiple times ). The key is the lioness will submit to her king, and sometimes even go rub on him to get him cranked up but doesn't chase him down. He has to be the initiator.


Well, i don’t want her going Lorena Bobbit on me


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> Important question: how many times a month are you two having sex?
> 
> The way she turns you down sounds like someone who doesn't care about hurting your feelings, and knows you aren't going anywhere, and no matter how she talks to you you are going to still provide what you do for her in the relationship- she can treat you as crappy as she wants and nothing will change for her.


Average 8 a month but that includes the “Sunday guaranteed sex”


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

lifeistooshort said:


> So she turns you down most of the time but you still imagine that she's going to initiate?
> 
> News flash.....not going to happen.
> 
> This is what you've got. I'm sorry...it sucks and I can't relate. I'm not the biggest initiator because I'm somewhat responsive bur I rarely say no.


I can hope. Heck, the Cubs finally won a World Series.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Longtime Hubby said:


> We talk of course. she
> 
> Good post. Yes, I’ve had talks like you mentioned. We have a standing Sunday sex date which works. Couple years. Feels like a legal contract at times. I do call all the shots in bed. Gets old.
> 
> I’ve come to realization she will never initiate again. And that sucks. What am I, chopped liver? a woman hit on me few years ago in a bar. Lovely blonde. nice being hit on.


When you first got together, was she more proactive in bed? Look, I am old, so it's a different generation, but it wasn't unusual for women to just let the man lead back then. I wasn't like most women and led plenty, but not until I knew he was game, so he was still making the first move. And I didn't always go where led or just acquiesce either. But point being a lot of women just think it's the man's place to lead in sex. In fact, if they can't, it can be a turnoff. You are in a situation where you get shot down a lot and feel hesitant and so you probably are not going into sex in a confident convincing way that a lot of women need, but that is probably a product of time and not your natural way. Yes, it would be nice if you got some encouragement, but you can only control yourself. So if sex has downward spiraled, though, this beating your confidence must be taking can be one reason. 

But anyway, I am glad you have it scheduled on Sunday. She just isn't the initiating type and a lot of women aren't. Have you discussed sex toys or anything like that to see if she has the least interest, or is that her alone time?


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> Important question: how many times a month are you two having sex?
> 
> The way she turns you down sounds like someone who doesn't care about hurting your feelings, and knows you aren't going anywhere, and no matter how she talks to you you are going to still provide what you do for her in the relationship- she can treat you as crappy as she wants and nothing will change for her.


She cares not one bit


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Well, i don’t want her going Lorena Bobbit on me


I am not understanding. Why would she go Lorena Bobbit. I thought she cut him off (!) cuz he was abusive. Missing something.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

What are your ages? Kids? How old?


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> When you first got together, was she more proactive in bed? Look, I am old, so it's a different generation, but it wasn't unusual for women to just let the man lead back then. I wasn't like most women and led plenty, but not until I knew he was game, so he was still making the first move. And I didn't always go where led or just acquiesce either. But point being a lot of women just think it's the man's place to lead in sex. In fact, if they can't, it can be a turnoff. You are in a situation where you get shot down a lot and feel hesitant and so you probably are not going into sex in a confident convincing way that a lot of women need, but that is probably a product of time and not your natural way. Yes, it would be nice if you got some encouragement, but you can only control yourself. So if sex has downward spiraled, though, this beating your confidence must be taking can be one reason.
> 
> But anyway, I am glad you have it scheduled on Sunday. She just isn't the initiating type and a lot of women aren't. Have you discussed sex toys or anything like that to see if she has the least interest, or is that her alone time?


We use toys. She enjoys. She 63, me 61. she used to be more into sex, even started now and then. Past menopause, frequency is better. I just hate always being the starter


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> I am not understanding. Why would she go Lorena Bobbit. I thought she cut him off (!) cuz he was abusive. Missing something.


Why? huge anger issues


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Why? huge anger issues


Your wife has huge anger issues? Regarding what?


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> Your wife has huge anger issues? Regarding what?


Pick a topic. Anything I disagree with


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

So if you disagree with her about something she goes into a *rage*? Isn't that a bigger issue than the initiating issue?


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> So if you disagree with her about something she goes into a *rage*? Isn't that a bigger issue than the initiating issue?


Not a rage. Just gets mad. Her way or Highway
i am never right about anything


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Well, i don’t want her going Lorena Bobbit on me


No, you certainly do not! She was abused, forced to have an abortion, and raped by him. A cautionary tale. But I don't think your situation rises to that level!


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## A18S37K14H18 (Dec 14, 2021)

Make different choices...

Or 7 years from now you will be able to make another post just like this one.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Not a rage. Just gets mad. Her way or Highway
> i am never right about anything


Doesnt sound like much fun. The sex thing just symptom of deeper issues IMO


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Why? huge anger issues


If she has big anger issues, she should take an anger-management course. You can do it online. There would be more accountability in person if they have them.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Well, you both have equal say in what goes on, and sometimes that does mean you reach a stalemate where one or both of you just can't get what you want, but that's marriage, isn't it?


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Sfort said:


> Have you asked?


No because I'd like to keep all my front teeth!


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

RebuildingMe said:


> The best way for me to describe it is the sex frequency is about the same as my M, 2x a week. However, here are the big differences for me:
> 
> 1) we don’t live together and with kids schedule, we see each other (where we can have sex) about 2x/week. So my expectations are naturally lower due to schedules, so I feel we are hitting close to 100%
> 
> ...


I do like your #4 

Yeah...don't live together or get married!

And honestly, she sounds like my wife was when we were dating with the HJ and BJ things as she did that sort of thing. But not so much anymore.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Longtime Hubby said:


> *Small fight this morning* - after she turned me down in golden opportunity, no plans, quiet house - about her never starting up.
> 
> Not since March 2015, and that was only time since then year 2000. Once in 22 years.
> 
> “I have a different sex drive” says she. Yeah, like dead. She says “no” about 6 of my 10 attempts. Better than nothing but it’d be nice if she initiated sometimes. Your thoughts?


Yes, I have a few thoughts. 

First I would bet in her mind it was not a small fight.

If you are correct that she has only initiated once in 22 years, she has a real problem with sexually desiring you. My first suggestion is to look closely at yourself to see if you have done something over the last 22 years that has and continues to turn her off to the point that she has no sexual desire for you.

If she really doesn't sexually desire you, she is likely to have a huge problem with initiating sex as anything other than another choir she had to do around the house. I am sure that is not what you want. I am sure that you want to feel sexually desired. If only once after 22 years, it is not going to magically change overnight.

My next suggestion is that you and your wife get professional marriage counseling to help figure out what is wrong. Don't be surprised to learn that you are part of the problem at least in your wife's eyes.

My suggestion is if you want sex, initiate it yourself and don't make it her responsibilty. You are a married man and you should have a reasonable (but negotiated with your wife) sex life. However, sit down with your wife and tell her that when you initiate, that if she doesn't want sex, she needs to "softly reject" you attempt to initiate sex. A soft rejection would be something like, "Honey, I am too tired right now to give sex with you the intensity you need. Can we put this off until tomorrow and make sure we are both well rested so I can f#ck your brains out?" The key to a soft rejection is "yes, I want to, but not right now, because it will be better later."

Good luck and get some professional marriage counseling so you find out what the root problem really is.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

A18S37K14H18 said:


> Make different choices...
> 
> Or 7 years from now you will be able to make another post just like this one.


But what are the choices other than divorce?


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I looked it up recently. Brittanica: In captivity lions often breed every year, but in the wild they usually breed no more than once in two years.
> 
> But when it is their mating time once a year or whatever, they do it quite a few times in a 24 hour period.
> 
> But yes, they are polygamous, probably because they go so long between mating they forget who the lucky recipient was!


Ya know, the lion IS the king of the beasts. And having several lionesses around could make his life fun. Its good to be the king! 🦁


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

So the moral of this story is be careful what you wish for!


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Well, you both have equal say in what goes on, and sometimes that does mean you reach a stalemate where one or both of you just can't get what you want, but that's marriage, isn't it?


if you try sometimes you might find you get what you need


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Longtime Hubby said:


> if you try sometimes you might find you get what you need


Wise words from the stormy youth of some wiry old geezers who are going to outlive us all.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Longtime Hubby said:


> if you try sometimes you might find you get what you need


Stones!!!


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## Bulfrog1987 (Oct 8, 2021)

Curious to know what the amount of time a week/month look like for you both? Do you both reach climax? Is it one sided (not even saying if it were just you getting off and not her, that's the reason OR your fault at all.) Just curious. I never turned my late husband down, but I rarely ever climaxed. Mine was mental, there was never anything more than it being a tap it and done session so, my enthusiasm waned long ago and he didn't care.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Wise words from the stormy youth of some wiry old geezers who are going to outlive us all.


Exactly


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Bulfrog1987 said:


> Curious to know what the amount of time a week/month look like for you both? Do you both reach climax? Is it one sided (not even saying if it were just you getting off and not her, that's the reason OR your fault at all.) Just curious. I never turned my late husband down, but I rarely ever climaxed. Mine was mental, there was never anything more than it being a tap it and done session so, my enthusiasm waned long ago and he didn't care.


So that brings up a good point that could become another thread so as not to hijack LTH's. Does a woman's interest in sex directly relate to her ability to orgasm from it???


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> So that brings up a good point that could become another thread so as not to hijack LTH's. Does a woman's interest in sex directly relate to her ability to orgasm from it???


No, not at all. A woman can get herself off in about two minutes if orgasm is her priority.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Sounds like my wife. She never initiates and the handful of times she has (maybe 5 or so in 10 years) its just her sitting in the chair and then she says "Wanna go have sex?". Now THATS seductive.
> 
> And I get turned down a lot too. I still try to initiate every day and am around a 50 percent success rate. Was around 40 percent a few months ago so its "improving". Eye roll while saying that.


I've been married for 17 years and "wanna do it tonight" or something to that effect is how my wife and I initiate nowadays.. After that many years, it kind of comes down to that right? At least my wife does get excited if and when I initiate, doesn't matter how I do it, and I don't care how she does it. Most of the times, she'll just say "are we doing it tonight or not?" which means we are doing it, like it or not.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Mybabysgotit said:


> I've been married for 17 years and "wanna do it tonight" or something to that effect is how my wife and I initiate nowadays.. After that many years, it kind of comes down to that right? At least my wife does get excited if and when I initiate, doesn't matter how I do it, and I don't care how she does it. Most of the times, she'll just say "are we doing it tonight or not?" which means we are doing it, like it or not.


Beats “let’s make it fast” or “you didnt cum yet?” How about the time i was giving oral homage, looked up to see her facial expression and saw her checking her nails? feel good moment


----------



## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

*


Longtime Hubby said:



She says “no” about 6 of my 10 attempts. Better than nothing but it’d be nice if she initiated sometimes. Your thoughts?

Click to expand...

*Just because it was a "golden opportunity" for YOU doesn't mean it was a golden opportunity for HER.

And quite honestly, if you're hitting 4 out of 10 attempts and you're really a "long time hubby" like your screenname says, then you're not doing so bad.

There are PLENTY of men out there who don't give a rat's ass *who *does the initiating - they're just thrilled to pieces that they're gettin' some.


----------



## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I do like your #4
> 
> Yeah...don't live together or get married!
> 
> And honestly, she sounds like my wife was when we were dating with the HJ and BJ things as she did that sort of thing. But not so much anymore.


That’s exactly my point. Make a girlfriend into a wife and that stuff stops. Make a wife into a mommy and everything sexual stops.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> There are PLENTY of men out there who don't give a rat's ass *who *does the initiating - they're just thrilled to pieces that they're gettin' some.


Except...many times initiation is related to interest. I think THATS what LTH (and guys like me are wanting) Sure its great if my wife say Yes when I initiate but if she initiated, at least it would feel she had more interest and not just agreeing to go along with it possibly just to shut me up.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

RebuildingMe said:


> That’s exactly my point. Make a girlfriend into a wife and that stuff stops. Make a wife into a mommy and everything sexual stops.


I wish I would have known this approximately 30 years ago.


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Just because it was a "golden opportunity" for YOU doesn't mean it was a golden opportunity for HER.
> 
> And quite honestly, if you're hitting 4 out of 10 attempts and you're really a "long time hubby" like your screenname says, then you're not doing so bad.
> 
> There are PLENTY of men out there who don't give a rat's ass *who *does the initiating - they're just thrilled to pieces that they're gettin' some.


Golden for us. No kids around. 28 years long time. Why wish she’d start? She used to. Miss that. Is it bad to say that?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

The way you describe your relationship, It seems to me that sex is the least of your problems, OP.


----------



## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I wish I would have known this approximately 30 years ago.


Me too. However, you’re never too old to learn.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

*


Longtime Hubby said:



She 63, me 61. she used to be more into sex, even started now and then. Past menopause, frequency is better. I just hate always being the starter

Click to expand...

*OP, didn't you learn ANYTHING about menopause? I was wondering if she was in menopause earlier in the thread and then I saw farther down that she's over 60.

Jeez. No wonder she has no interest in sex. I'm not addressing the _"she hasn't initiated in 22 years"_ issue - just the immediate one.

Look OP, you don't get it. YOU have Testosterone still driving you to want sex; but she's likely one of those women who don't have much of _anything_ driving her sexually anymore now that she's been through menopause. There are those miraculous women you hear about who become absolute sex hounds after menopause, and then there are the women who don't even _think _about sex after menopause. I'm guessing your wife is one of the latter.

She didn't ask for that, OP. It's just one of nature's cruel jokes.

She doesn't sound very kind or compassionate but I'm not addressing that, either.

**** NOTE to the men who are all so quick to advise the OP that he should "divorce his wife and/or stop being of use to her around the house" because she no longer wants sex. 

Throughout history, most women endured the end of THEIR sex lives when their husbands could no longer get or keep erections when they got older. Many men were too embarrassed about it and refused to see a doctor or they felt like a failure and wouldn't even discuss it - they simply stopped all intimate activity at that point and their wives had no choice in the matter. So many, many women had their sex lives simply cut short at 45 or 50 or 55 years old, etc. But that was considered the way things went, right? It was "nature taking its course" and "people getting older." It was the natural way of things, so to speak and many women grieved the end of their intimate lives. But you didn't see women leaving in droves because of it.

And then, Viagra came along in 1998 and now men 45 and older are happy as hell to be humping their wives' legs well into their 60's and 70's and 80's. So it was ok when it was MEN putting on the brakes and killing their sex lives due to age or medically-related ED, but when a woman loses HER desire due to bodily changes, she needs to be kicked to the curb.

Got it.*


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> The way you describe your relationship, It seems to me that sex is the least of your problems, OP.


Okay doc


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

@Longtime Hubby I reccommend you set aside a block of time and check out "Dr Psych Mom's" website articles and especially her podcasts. 

She is PhD pycho therapist and licensed marital therapist who has a lot of material on the effects of age and long term monogamy on women. 

She explains things in very blunt, nuts and bolts terms and delves into the effects of long term monogamous relationships on women's libido and the extremely common shift of a woman's spontaneous desire to almost exclusive responsive desire. 

And she also has very informative material of the effects of menopause on a woman's libido and sexual response. 

You are kind of hoping for something that is simply not in the common woman's physiologic and emotional nomenclature here. 

If you want someone that is spontaneously sexually charged and is going to be sexually assertive and initiative and want to jump your bones because they are sexually charged and DTF in the moment, you're pretty much going to have to turn gay and get with dudes because that is what dudes do. Generally not chicks.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> OP, didn't you learn ANYTHING about menopause? I was wondering if she was in menopause earlier in the thread and then I saw farther down that she's over 60.
> 
> Jeez. No wonder she has no interest in sex. I'm not addressing the _"she hasn't initiated in 22 years"_ issue - just the immediate one.
> 
> ...


Menopause. That’s it. Sounds a lot like the abuse excuse during the Melendez trial. It’s also exactly why men in their 50’s and 60’s date women in their 20’s and 30’s.

Now you got it?


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

RebuildingMe said:


> Menopause. That’s it. Sounds a lot like the abuse excuse during the Melendez trial. It’s also exactly why men in their 50’s and 60’s date women in their 20’s and 30’s.
> 
> Now you got it?





She'sStillGotIt said:


> OP, didn't you learn ANYTHING about menopause? I was wondering if she was in menopause earlier in the thread and then I saw farther down that she's over 60.
> 
> Jeez. No wonder she has no interest in sex. I'm not addressing the _"she hasn't initiated in 22 years"_ issue - just the immediate one.
> 
> ...


She has plenty of interest, twice a week. just want her to start. Sheesh!! more fun now than we had 5 years ago. So there


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> @Longtime Hubby I reccommend you set aside a block of time and check out "Dr Psych Mom's" website articles and especially her podcasts.
> 
> She is PhD pycho therapist and licensed marital therapist who has a lot of material on the effects of age and long term monogamy on women.
> 
> ...


Will check out


----------



## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Rus47 said:


> Your wife has huge anger issues? Regarding what?





Longtime Hubby said:


> Pick a topic. Anything I disagree with


I suspect this is the real issue, not the sex. If you can sort out the conflict, then other things will get a lot easier.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Laurentium said:


> I suspect this is the real issue, not the sex. If you can sort out the conflict, then other things will get a lot easier.


That’s what I hope


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Longtime Hubby said:


> That’s what I hope


Do you have a plan to sort out the conflict?


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Laurentium said:


> Do you have a plan to sort out the conflict?


Are in counseling


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Longtime Hubby said:


> She has plenty of interest, twice a week. just want her to start. Sheesh!! more fun now than we had 5 years ago. So there


Oh, come on. Good grief. Sex twice a week and you're sulled up because you want her to start. Now that I know that, I have little to no sympathy left for you. That is your ego talking. Get over it. Be glad you're having sex twice a week with a woman in menopause.


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## hub49 (7 mo ago)

If I kept track - and I'd like to think I have better things to do - I'd probably find that I initiate most of the time. Is that important? Not to me, it isn't.


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## hub49 (7 mo ago)

Longtime Hubby said:


> She has plenty of interest


If she really has plenty of interest, why are you not capable of being happy with that?


----------



## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

I don't know dudes, but let me tell you. My wife never ever have initiated, I do, the key here is that I understand that she is responsive, and that's her, and I understand that.. And so does she.

The other thing that a lot dudes need to understand is that for most women (and I mean even if they're in their peak of youth, and horniness) you as a male need to know that to get to that moment you must have started earlier with the seduction on a very organic manner, other than you just coming in and demanding sex. Come-on dudes, WTF? 

Yes, for young people, and earlier in any relationship for any age, sex on demand is exciting, instantaneous and you get on it right away. But, for established relationships where the routine and daily demands of life have taken roots, a good day to day interaction with your partner must be established. I do romance my wife with deeds and showings of affection throughout the day or days if it will be 2-3 days for us, but I make sure that my wife feels that she is being wanted not just physically, but especially emotionally.

I tell things to her throughout the day that makes her feel wanted, desired and specially appreciated. 

I reinforce throughout the day things about her that I know that are true about her. And I communicate throughout the day to her of my commitment to her, to our relationship, to my support for my daughters, and especially, I communicate how lucky I am to have her. How lucky and grateful I am that she accepted me as her partner and as the mother of my children. I do all this on a daily basis without any intentions geared towards her wanting to have sex with Me. And she knows it and acknowledges it. So when the day is over and we're heading to bed, or when we're already in bed, I lean over and initiate. I can tell you dudes, the few times that my wife is forced to turn me down is because there's a "real" legit reason for it. I immediately acknowledge my understanding and don't got pouting, and upset about it. As a matter of fact, sometimes, my wife after having stated her reasons, she feels so bad, and tells me that we can do it, but gently and slow. I do refuse though, because, I have consideration for her for those times, and I know is not the end of the world, and that she will be eager next time when she's feeling better and ready.

Of course the other face if the coin is my first wife. And that's exclusively the sole and only reason she's my ex. But I was younger (in my 30's), and after three months of no sex I say no more, divorce. And that was that.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

I forgot to say that in those instances when she just can't, she always, and I mean always ask if she can get me off orally or manually. Depending on what the situation is, I tell her yes or not honey you're not really up to it so let's try another day. 

This is coming from a guy that up until my mid fifties I needed sex daily or I couldn't sleep at night if no relief.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> No because I'd like to keep all my front teeth!


Front teeth can be useful.


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## Bulfrog1987 (Oct 8, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> So that brings up a good point that could become another thread so as not to hijack LTH's. Does a woman's interest in sex directly relate to her ability to orgasm from it???


I believe it totally relates to the moment. I read of plenty of women having zero interest in sex, yet head off to help themselves to O because they want one. I think it's totally dependent upon the situation. For me, I had no desire to O by myself. Sure I could make it happen but there's no appeal in that to me. I wanted the connection, of my spouse wanting to have a part in making that happen. I didn't have that therefor it lost it's appeal and I mentally was not going to get there.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

It amazes me, really.....

A guy gets his d!ck knocked in more often than not, then should be supremely thankful for any crumbs she gives him?...And guess what's even more sad? The couple of times she does cave in. she's likely only doing it so you get off her back for a while....FOH...

That's the most pathetic situation I can think of...but if it gets you by, I guess good for you??

If I were a guy in this situation, here is the only thing I would do...I wouldn't say or do anything to her and not tell her anything about this...I would strip naked and take a selfie of myself...Look at it objectively (and give yourself any points for normal aging and such), then ask yourself honestly, if you were a woman, would you be attracted/sexually attracted? or perhaps some sort of life change is in order...If you are out of shape and have fixable items that are hurting you from an attractiveness standpoint, then fix them...Bad teeth? fix it....Going bald? shave your head...Overweight and out of shape? Join a gym, get a trainer, whatever and make some serious changes in your appearance for the better....

If you are already living this life, great, then you know its not that, but if not, this is a no lose scenario....She may not give a crap and you will be in the same spot you are right now, except you will feel much better about yourself and be in better overall health. The second possibility is she notices this(or perhaps she starts to hear her female friends tell her how great he looks), and that turns her motor on...Again, you don't lose either way....

But it really is kinda sad that people have to thank their lucky stars when a woman agrees(while probably holding her nose) to a couple of half assed duty sex sessions where she is praying you finish early....In my opinion, that would have zero worth, and I would not participate....I am not knocking those that are doing it this way, I just don't get it...Sex aint like raking the leaves together...or it shouldn't be anyway...

Good luck..


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Rob_1 said:


> I forgot to say that in those instances when she just can't, she always, and I mean always ask if she can get me off orally or manually. Depending on what the situation is, I tell her yes or not honey you're not really up to it so let's try another day.
> 
> This is coming from a guy that up until my mid fifties I needed sex daily or I couldn't sleep at night if no relief.


You trained her well.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Okay doc


I'm not the only one saying this...


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## Melinda82 (10 mo ago)

Twice a week is plenty for a lot of women, especially after menopause. If she's usually having an orgasm, then she's probably getting all of her needs met and has no reason to initiate. Women initiate when they're horny and have needs they want you to fulfill. So, either be happy that you're having sex twice a week, or stop initiating and see if she eventually gets horny and initiates. (She probably won't because twice a week may already be more than she needs/desires. So I wouldn't if I were you.) 

Or, since you're already scheduling sex, you could suggest to her what my husband and I tried: Sunday is your definite day. Then you're responsible for initiating once during the rest of the week. And she's responsible for initiating another day of the week. It allows for a little spontaneity and mystery. If you can get your wife to agree to this experiment and make it work, you'll be getting more sex and she'll be doing some initiating. Good luck!


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Well yeah but that doesn't mean she is going to say "Oh OK go **** the neighbor".


Are you sure? 🤣🤣🤣


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Okay doc


No, being turned down 6 of 10 times is the problem.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Longtime Hubby said:


> We have a standing Sunday sex date which works. Couple years. *Feels like a legal contract at times. I do call all the shots in bed. Gets old.*
> 
> I’ve come to realization she will never initiate again. And that sucks. What am I, chopped liver? a woman hit on me few years ago in a bar. Lovely blonde. nice being hit on.





Longtime Hubby said:


> Beats* “let’s make it fast” or “you didnt cum yet?”* How about the time i was giving oral homage, looked up to see her facial expression and saw her *checking her nails? *feel good moment





Longtime Hubby said:


> *She has plenty of interest, twice a week.* just want her to start.


Doesn't "plenty of interest" conflict somewhat with the impatience and boredom she expressed? And the Sunday "date" works but just barely for you and gets old.

Most people of both genders long for their life partner to desire them. If the partner doesn't and makes it obvious by their actions and/or words that is a real downer. As you say, "It sucks". And, I will just say that at least in your situation, menopause isn't relevant.

IMO, this is way different than her not initiating. As mentioned, the extent of my wife's "initiating" is subtle words. It is just her personality. But she enthusiastically responds to me romancing her. If she were to say something like "haven't you cum yet?" that would have a major impact on our intimacy going forward.

I hope your counseling helps, honestly that seems like the only thing with any chance of healing your situation.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> No, being turned down 6 of 10 times is the problem.


The problem is that the OP is not accepting that his wife is the responsive type. Also, we don't really know what kind of sex they are having... if it's the starfish type, I would be frustrated too. Looking at your nails whilst receiving oral is not very exciting for the husband...


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Lots of mixed thoughts here...some say 4 out of 10 is seen as good and others not so much. Some say 2x a week is more than acceptable other say its not.

I guess TAM is a pretty good representation of the population as consensus is hardly ever met.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> some say 4 out of 10 is seen as good


I wasn’t saying 4 of 10 was good. Was suggesting focusing on why they were successful as opposed to the 6 rejections. Honestly if I were rejected one of ten it would be really tough to take. My wife doesn’t do rejection.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> There are PLENTY of men out there who don't give a rat's ass *who *does the initiating - they're just thrilled to pieces that they're gettin' some.


I used to think it was important but actually I don’t care.

My wife also stopped signaling whether she’d be receptive to me initiating because as it turns out, if she’s not exhausted, she doesn’t say no anymore.

She tried being coy last night like, “How greedy… you think you can get it twice today?” Yes, yes I do.


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Rus47 said:


> I wasn’t saying 4 of 10 was good. Was suggesting focusing on why they were successful as opposed to the 6 rejections. Honestly if I were rejected one of ten it would be really tough to take. My wife doesn’t do rejection.


I know you didn't but some of the other replies indicated it was. So your wife never says No? Good on her. I think she is a rarity.


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

My wife throws the “responsive desire” crap at me when we’ve argued on why she doesn’t initiate or her version of it is asking me if I want to do it, which hasn’t happened in quite a long time.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Lots of mixed thoughts here...some say 4 out of 10 is seen as good and others not so much. Some say 2x a week is more than acceptable other say its not.
> 
> I guess TAM is a pretty good representation of the population as consensus is hardly ever met.


4/10 is bad, I would be initiating at least twice a day. With that rate then you’d have a 3% chance of rejection after 3 days so you’re probably over 2x a week assuming the chance doesn’t change after repeated trials.

2x a week is a bare life support amount, probably below life support.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> 4/10 is bad, I would be initiating at least twice a day. With that rate then you’d have a 3% chance of rejection after 3 days so you’re probably over 2x a week assuming the chance doesn’t change after repeated trials.
> 
> 2x a week is a bare life support amount, probably below life support.


And yet just above some are stating in a long term marriage that is considered good. And if I recall, that was stated by a female?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> And yet just above some are stating in a long term marriage that is considered good. And if I recall, that was stated by a female?


Yeah I guess it depends on the individual people. If I could have as much sex as I want I would usually go 2+ times a day, sometimes way more maybe 4x a day, sometimes zero if I was really sick or tired.

The quality versus quantity thing is also a fallacy. I find that the better sex I am having the more I want it.

Last night I would say it was pretty hot. After my wife had hers she was grabbing my arms and she was like damn nice arms!!! So I woke up today and I still have that in my mind and TBH I haven’t worked out yet so I could probably go a couple times just this morning.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> Yeah I guess it depends on the individual people. If I could have as much sex as I want I would usually go 2+ times a day, sometimes way more maybe 4x a day, sometimes zero if I was really sick or tired.
> 
> The quality versus quantity thing is also a fallacy. I find that the better sex I am having the more I want it.
> 
> Last night I would say it was pretty hot. After my wife had hers she was grabbing my arms and she was like damn nice arms!!! So I woke up today and I still have that in my mind and TBH I haven’t worked out yet so I could probably go a couple times just this morning.


In a committed relationship I would think 3-4 times a week would be the bare minimum to keep it alive.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I know you didn't but some of the other replies indicated it was. So your wife never says No? Good on her. I think she is a rarity.


I have struggled to recall a time when she said no, and honestly can't. Having said that, if I know there is physical or psychological pain, I don't approach her for intimacy. Pain, illness, mourning obviously excludes that. I turn myself down to begin with. 

There HAVE been times where she was in pain from pinched nerve I knew nothing of yet said nothing, and we were intimate. She is prone to conceal illness or pain, and "suck it up buttercup". The next day when I find out she was hiding her pain, we have a long discussion about her not doing that. But she has a stubborn streak.

For her, the bonding and comfort from us being intimate is a major high she has always craved. If I didn't initiate intimacy on a regular basis she will be asking "what is wrong? are you feeling ok? is it something I said or did?"


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

GoodDad5 said:


> My wife throws the “responsive desire” crap at me when we’ve argued on why she doesn’t initiate or her version of it is asking me if I want to do it, which hasn’t happened in quite a long time.


Yes, but if the sex is good, who cares? If sex is bad - like starfish bad - then it becomes a problem. I get the issue with "feeling wanted", but if you know the reasons, then just get on with it!


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Numb26 said:


> In a committed relationship I would think 3-4 times a week would be the bare minimum to keep it alive.


What would you do if you were only getting it twice a week? Would the relationship die?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

I have no problem being the one that initiates. I've also gotten pretty good at reading her, so I don't get turned down much since I don't initiate when I know the odds are low. Also doesn't hurt that she is pretty into sex and is usually in the mood. I just go on the assumption that she won't initiate, but she does often surprise me and starts. She is pretty sly about it. I go from expecting nothing to suddenly she has my pants down, lol.


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## Bulfrog1987 (Oct 8, 2021)

GoodDad5 said:


> My wife throws the “responsive desire” crap at me when we’ve argued on why she doesn’t initiate or her version of it is asking me if I want to do it, which hasn’t happened in quite a long time.


I have to admit this was me. I never said no if he initiated and once a week, maybe twice a week I would initiate out of duty. I know men hate this, and actually I hated it too, but it was the only way to not rock the boat. Believe me, there was a side to me that wanted to show itself, however I just couldn't bring myself to do it knowing there wouldn't be any true reciprocation. I had become a vessel and it was a real turn off, the only difference is I am not most women who just say no, not tonight, ect. 

I had faith my situation would turn around, that my husband was just in a bad season. I was terribly wrong. Anyhow, all I'm saying is make sure you've tried to connect emotionally in the days leading up to the act. Don't just spring it on her like, you want to do it. You may be already trying this, but if you're not it's my only suggestion.

And sorry, Gooddad, this wasn't for you but OP in response to your response.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Bulfrog1987 said:


> I have to admit this was me. I never said no if he initiated and once a week, maybe twice a week I would initiate out of duty. I know men hate this, and actually I hated it too, but it was the only way to not rock the boat. Believe me, there was a side to me that wanted to show itself, however I just couldn't bring myself to do it knowing there wouldn't be any true reciprocation. I had become a vessel and it was a real turn off, the only difference is I am not most women who just say no, not tonight, ect.
> 
> I had faith my situation would turn around, that my husband was just in a bad season. I was terribly wrong. Anyhow, all I'm saying is make sure you've tried to connect emotionally in the days leading up to the act. Don't just spring it on her like, you want to do it. You may be already trying this, but if you're not it's my only suggestion.
> 
> And sorry, Gooddad, this wasn't for you but OP in response to your response.


Most men - and I was one of them - don't really get what you describe here or, if they get it, it's usually too late because the damage is done. Mismatches are very difficult to "manage". Someone is going to suffer, or even both.

You will find that here some posters say that you have to be a real man and "take" your wife when you fancy it. Be the man, the initiator, the leader. Or that they will divorce their wives if they don't have it every day. Some try to connect emotionally, but they get rejected regardless. It's a jungle out there...


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

a frequency of 2x a week isn't really all that terrible for established couples in their mid/older years...

The problem is those times are coming after countless rejection(and NEVER initiating)..Its pretty much worthless at that point...I mean, once a woman rejects(or a man rejects a woman for that matter) unless you knew that they were sick or there wasn't any other physical issue, then you would have to question any time they decide to give it, that it's not done willingly or with any real interest, but more because they feel like you are expecting it and they want to get you off their back about it...

IMO, Thats the core issue, really....


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> I'm not the only one saying this...


Whatever. a lot of people also say the vaccine is about mind control


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Whatever. a lot of people also say the vaccine is about mind control


I guess you know best!


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> I guess you know best!


That’s right. Don’t all guys? Lol


----------



## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> Doesn't "plenty of interest" conflict somewhat with the impatience and boredom she expressed? And the Sunday "date" works but just barely for you and gets old.
> 
> Most people of both genders long for their life partner to desire them. If the partner doesn't and makes it obvious by their actions and/or words that is a real downer. As you say, "It sucks". And, I will just say that at least in your situation, menopause isn't relevant.
> 
> ...


She said that once in 28 years.
sheesh


----------



## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Melinda82 said:


> Twice a week is plenty for a lot of women, especially after menopause. If she's usually having an orgasm, then she's probably getting all of her needs met and has no reason to initiate. Women initiate when they're horny and have needs they want you to fulfill.


This information is sticky worthy. While @Melinda82 does not necessarily speak for all women, I'm sure she's right about a lot of them. Women lose interest in sex because...they lose interest in sex. Biologically, they don't need it or want it as much as men do. Can it be that easy to understand? 

Men and women have sex for different reasons. For men, sex can be ego gratification, and the male ego is a monster. For women, sex can be something you do in a relationship to help the relationship continue. (Yes, these are gross generalizations, but they are certainly valid for some people.)


----------



## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Also doesn't hurt that she is pretty into sex and is usually in the mood.


If you can find a way to bottle and sell that formula, you'll become a financial threat to Elon Musk. Seriously, is it just her personality? Does she do something in her life that feeds her sexual desire? Are the stars just in perfect alignment?


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Sfort said:


> This information is sticky worthy. While @Melinda82 does not necessarily speak for all women, I'm sure she's right about a lot of them. Women lose interest in sex because...they lose interest in sex. Biologically, they don't need it or want it as much as men do. Can it be that easy to understand?
> 
> Men and women have sex for different reasons. For men, sex can be ego gratification, and the male ego is a monster. For women, sex can be something you do in a relationship to help the relationship continue. (Yes, these are gross generalizations, but they are certainly valid for some people.)


For many men, sex = love 
many women, love = sex


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## Busy Washing My Hair (7 mo ago)

I think in general men’s biological need for sex and readiness for sex (horniness) is stronger and a lot more even keel than that of the average woman’s. Yeah I know there are all sorts of reasons people desire sex, whether it’s a physical need or to feel emotionally close to your spouse or whatever. But you can’t deny the strong biological components related to how sex and sexual desire work. I think the physical biological urge has to really be there. If that didn’t exist I don’t think we’d all be putting our genitals inside our spouse’s body or our mouths on their genitals as a way to feel love and emotional connection. For men, the base biological urge for sex is there at almost all times. Sure the desire might be at different levels for different guys naturally and depending on whether you have some other sort of mental or physical problems affecting your libido. But for the average man without any major mental or physical health issues I think there is just a biological component that makes the desire and drive for sex always there somewhere, ready to go and very easily aroused.

The biological components of sex are different in a woman. Just the fluctuating hormones that take place within a full monthly cycle alone (for those women not past menopause) can see major highs and lows as far as the biological urge to want sex. Biologically, womens bodies are not designed for them to “want” or “need” sex 30 days a month.

I think this has got to play a big part in the whole responsive desire thing. Women can become very horny even when it’s not near a time of the month when they’re body is telling them it’s time to reproduce, but it often requires external stimuli and some outside thing to create the horniness within the woman’s mind and then body. 

Biologically I also think women are simply designed to respond to a man who wants to mate with them. I know we all like to think we’re far more advanced than this but a lot of our sexual behavior is still very much tied to our lizard brains.

Disclaimer that I don’t speak for all women. There are women who feel horny all the time, need sex daily, always initiate, but I’m sure study after study will show us that is not true for a majority of women. A majority of men experience spontaneous desire on a pretty regular basis and a minority of women experience spontaneous desire.

There’s also “contextual desire” which is what I believe is the case for myself most of the time.


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## Busy Washing My Hair (7 mo ago)

Longtime Hubby said:


> For many men, sex = love
> many women, love = sex


 🫰 🫰 🫰 (this means I really agree, great comment)


----------



## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Small fight this morning - after she turned me down in golden opportunity, no plans, quiet house - about her never starting up.
> 
> Not since March 2015, and that was only time since then year 2000. Once in 22 years.
> 
> “I have a different sex drive” says she. Yeah, like dead. She says “no” about 6 of my 10 attempts. Better than nothing but it’d be nice if she initiated sometimes. Your thoughts?


If she has to initiate, that means it's been too long and she's already upset with you not initiating in the first place.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Mybabysgotit said:


> If she has to initiate, that means it's been too long and she's already upset with you not initiating in the first place.


Does not have to. Just be nice if she would now and then. Still have our fun. Tired of me ALWAYS being the spark to light the fuse. That got old long ago.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

From AARP "Sex at 50 Plus - What's Normal?"

"
*13. How often do you and your partner make love?*
31 percent of couples have sex several times a week; 28 percent of couples have sex a couple of times a month; and 8 percent of couples have sex once a month. Sadly — or so we thought — 33 percent of respondents said they rarely or never have sex. But even among couples who report being "extremely happy," an astonishing one-fourth rarely or never get it on."


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Numb26 said:


> In a committed relationship I would think 3-4 times a week would be the bare minimum to keep it alive.


To keep what alive?


----------



## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

Busy Washing My Hair said:


> I think in general men’s biological need for sex and readiness for sex (horniness) is stronger and a lot more even keel than that of the average woman’s. Yeah I know there are all sorts of reasons people desire sex, whether it’s a physical need or to feel emotionally close to your spouse or whatever. But you can’t deny the strong biological components related to how sex and sexual desire work. I think the physical biological urge has to really be there. If that didn’t exist I don’t think we’d all be putting our genitals inside our spouse’s body or our mouths on their genitals as a way to feel love and emotional connection. For men, the base biological urge for sex is there at almost all times. Sure the desire might be at different levels for different guys naturally and depending on whether you have some other sort of mental or physical problems affecting your libido. But for the average man without any major mental or physical health issues I think there is just a biological component that makes the desire and drive for sex always there somewhere, ready to go and very easily aroused.
> 
> The biological components of sex are different in a woman. Just the fluctuating hormones that take place within a full monthly cycle alone (for those women not past menopause) can see major highs and lows as far as the biological urge to want sex. Biologically, womens bodies are not designed for them to “want” or “need” sex 30 days a month.
> 
> ...


I have never had a girlfriend, wife or ONS for that matter who didn't feel that desire. Every single one of them were ready to go at the drop of a hat. For the most part, every guy I know had the same thing, or at least didn't complain about it. I've never even heard of a woman not wanting to do it until I got on the internet.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Mybabysgotit said:


> I have never had a girlfriend, wife or ONS for that matter who didn't feel that desire. Every single one of them were ready to go at the drop of a hat. For the most part, every guy I know had the same thing, or at least didn't complain about it. I've never even heard of a woman not wanting to do it until I got on the internet.


Were they all over 60?


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Were they all over 60?


Not over 60, oldest was 43, youngest 14 (don't get excited, I was only 15).


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Were they all over 60?


Yeah those ready at the drop of hat? Gotta be 30 or younger.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> To keep what alive?


3 to 4 a week? yes. early in r-ship.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> From AARP "Sex at 50 Plus - What's Normal?"
> 
> "
> *13. How often do you and your partner make love?*
> 31 percent of couples have sex several times a week; 28 percent of couples have sex a couple of times a month; and 8 percent of couples have sex once a month. Sadly — or so we thought — 33 percent of respondents said they rarely or never have sex. But even among couples who report being "extremely happy," an astonishing one-fourth rarely or never get it on."


So we are in the 31% with twice a week at least. That’s cool for ages 63 and 61. … feel sorry for the 33% rare or never.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Mybabysgotit said:


> Not over 60, oldest was 43, youngest 14 (don't get excited, I was only 15).


43 year old sounds fun.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Longtime Hubby said:


> For many men, sex = love
> many women, love = sex


For many men, sex = love
many women, expectation = sex

For many men, sex = love
many women, security = sex


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Longtime Hubby said:


> You trained her well.


No training. A matter of mutual understanding, and care for each other.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Rob_1 said:


> No training. A matter of mutual understanding, and care for each other.


And maybe some luck that not all of us have??? I say that in jest but my wife loves and cares for me but just doesn't want sex as much as I do. Not sure that can be attributed to anything really...just luck of the draw as I certainly don't believe I can do anything to make her want sex more.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> And maybe some luck that not all of us have??? I say that in jest but my wife loves and cares for me but just doesn't want sex as much as I do. Not sure that can be attributed to anything really...just luck of the draw as I certainly don't believe I can do anything to make her want sex more.


“Some guys have all the luck“ - Rod Stewart


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Longtime Hubby said:


> “Some guys have all the luck“ - Rod Stewart


We're now in our sixties. If it were up to my wife, she would not care one bit about sex. But when I want it, she won't refuse me, just to please me.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Rob_1 said:


> We're now in our sixties. If it were up to my wife, she would not care one bit about sex. But when I want it, she won't refuse me, just to please me.


That’s wonderful. I am green with envy. In our early ‘60s. If I need it and she’s not interested, I get shut out.


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## Bulfrog1987 (Oct 8, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> Most men - and I was one of them - don't really get what you describe here or, if they get it, it's usually too late because the damage is done. Mismatches are very difficult to "manage". Someone is going to suffer, or even both.
> 
> You will find that here some posters say that you have to be a real man and "take" your wife when you fancy it. Be the man, the initiator, the leader. Or that they will divorce their wives if they don't have it every day. Some try to connect emotionally, but they get rejected regardless. It's a jungle out there...


And the truth is there are women out there you cannot please. So, I feel bad for y’all and believe when I say I’m disgusted with women who abuse the good men out there.

When you’ve gone through what I have, you know what’s important in a relationship and marriage and you know NOT to take specific things for granted.

Now on the subject of mean being to be men and take what they want. My husband never physically forced me (though he liked the idea) but there were consequences mentally, emotionally if I wasn’t making myself available weekly. (At least every other day or do)

Toward the end, I was actually in our spare bedroom things were so bad. It had been days since he’d had relations with me and he actually walked out of our bedroom to the living room where I’d just gotten up on a Sunday morning with our son who was now in another room and asked me “would you please take care of me?” Pointing to his lower half. 

I couldn’t believe he came out and asked me that. After weeks of silence (not the silent treatment) just there wasn’t anything for me to do but wait for him to open up, talk about what he’d said to me weeks before. I wasn’t going to be a doormat any longer, and this was what he came to ask me. I guess the look on my face was answer enough and he got mad and stormed off. I followed, closing the door behind me and got on my knees and did what he expected. I wasn’t going to give him the satisfaction of saying “she doesn’t take care of me.” 

He finished and literally pulled away and went straight to the bathroom to clean up. Talk about damage. A huge portion of damage from instances like this could have been cleared up if there had been a realization of what he was doing, the divide he was creating but a man like him.. he just couldn’t look inward ever. And inevitably he took his own life. I know can see the way I was being treated was a symptom of what he was avoiding.


He wasn’t really angry with me, I was just the outlet and he couldn’t do the work to fix the real issues he had. He just wasn’t emotionally or mentally strong enough.

Anyway, my point is, it takes a STRONG man to provide emotionally for their wife. It truly does, but a wife on the other hand also has to be giving and respectful and know physically men need that love, rejection after rejection ruins things for them, just as no tlc to the wife does for her. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Busy Washing My Hair said:


> I think in general men’s biological need for sex and readiness for sex (horniness) is stronger and a lot more even keel than that of the average woman’s. Yeah I know there are all sorts of reasons people desire sex, whether it’s a physical need or to feel emotionally close to your spouse or whatever. But you can’t deny the strong biological components related to how sex and sexual desire work. I think the physical biological urge has to really be there. If that didn’t exist I don’t think we’d all be putting our genitals inside our spouse’s body or our mouths on their genitals as a way to feel love and emotional connection. For men, the base biological urge for sex is there at almost all times. Sure the desire might be at different levels for different guys naturally and depending on whether you have some other sort of mental or physical problems affecting your libido. But for the average man without any major mental or physical health issues I think there is just a biological component that makes the desire and drive for sex always there somewhere, ready to go and very easily aroused.
> 
> The biological components of sex are different in a woman. Just the fluctuating hormones that take place within a full monthly cycle alone (for those women not past menopause) can see major highs and lows as far as the biological urge to want sex. Biologically, womens bodies are not designed for them to “want” or “need” sex 30 days a month.
> 
> ...


Wow. What a great post!


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Bulfrog1987 said:


> And the truth is there are women out there you cannot please. So, I feel bad for y’all and believe when I say I’m disgusted with women who abuse the good men out there.


The really sad parts are the mismatches or the false advertising. A couple starts out with both HD. One becomes LD. There's a mismatch. If the mismatch is the result of false advertising, it's a despicable situation. The same could be said if both start out LD and one becomes HD. There are life events that affect the LD/HD problem, but I'm not talking about those. 

As I've discussed it with friends over the years, men are biologically programmed to be ready to go all the time. Women are programmed to be the "governor" or the "regulator" of the sex act for good reason. If both were ready to go all the time, the world would have exceed its maximum population eons ago.

Now that men can have babies, I wonder how this biological regulation is going to work. Your teenage daughter now has to worry that her boyfriend will go home pregnant.


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## Bulfrog1987 (Oct 8, 2021)

Sfort said:


> The really sad parts are the mismatches or the false advertising. A couple starts out with both HD. One becomes LD. There's a mismatch. If the mismatch is the result of false advertising, it's a despicable situation. The same could be said if both start out LD and one becomes HD. There are life events that affect the LD/HD problem, but I'm not talking about those.
> 
> As I've discussed it with friends over the years, men are biologically programmed to be ready to go all the time. Women are programmed to be the "governor" or the "regulator" of the sex act for good reason. If both were ready to go all the time, the world would have exceed its maximum population eons ago.
> 
> Now that men can have babies, I wonder how this biological regulation is going to work. Your teenage daughter now has to worry that her boyfriend will go home pregnant.


Totally sad I would agree. However, the issue wasn't high sex drive or low, it was just a lack of mutual respect as partners. I was definitely deceived when I got married but not of that. I just learned that it was too much work to show affection in any other way but having sex and at first it wasn't that way. Water under the bridge at this point. I won't be deceived for taken for granted again however. I've learned my lesson.


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## A18S37K14H18 (Dec 14, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> But what are the choices other than divorce?


FG1,

First, he cannot keep doing the same things. The status quo HAS to change.

Now, this isn't a guarantee that anything will change but he he knows nothing will change if he keeps doing what he's been doing the last couple of decades.

Divorce may need to happen, but BEFORE that point, he needs to work like hell on this.

Now, considering how damn long it's been, I don't like the odds. Things need to be nipped in the bud, not allowed to fester and become so much worse for decades.

But, there are countless books OP may read, so many vids to watch, podcasts to listen to, TED Talks to watch/listen to.

He could go to counseling, by himself and he should, for many reasons as he isn't happy and that's understandable.

He can tell his wife he loves her and he wants both of them to be happier going forward. He may tell her that she and their marriage is worth working on and that he's going to go to counseling and he'd like her to join him, but if she won't he's still going to go because he loves her and wants things to be better for her, for him and for them together.

He can work on himself in so many ways (we all can of course).

He needs to make different choices than he's made up to this point as the choices he's made have helped to land him in the situation he currently finds himself in.

OP is in a difficult situation.

I see 3 main high level things he can do.

1) He can work like hell on this, on himself and see what happens and where that leads.

2) He may just divorce her.

3) He can do nothing, he can maintain the status quo.

Number 3 is his WORST option, by far.

He needs to work like hell on this and make many different choices and if it doesn't work, then he will be in a much better place personally during and after the divorce as reading books, going to counseling and working on oneself invariably leads people to feel better, to have a better outlook etc.

Just by the fact that OP has made a post and is participating in responses shows he wants to at least try to work on this. If he didn't, he wouldn't have made a post, he would have just divorced her or he would have just carried on with the status quo. He didn't do either of those, he made a post, he's trying.

Exercise, read, meditate, get new hobbies, pick up old hobbies, read self-help books, go to counseling.

Talk to his wife at dinner or on a walk about marriage, about what she wants for the rest of her life. Of course, in that convo he will also need to talk about what he wants for the rest of his life.

They are supposed to be a team. If they can't or won't be a team then they shouldn't remain married.

He can tell his wife that they are supposed to work together and pull on the rope together.

He can tell his wife that it's supposed to be both of them against and vs. whatever life throws their way.

I get it, there aren't any guarantees in life, his wife may not be receptive to any of this. Things may be too far gone with how long this has been allowed to go on.

But he can't keep doing what he's been doing so that's why I said he needs to make different choices.

Both of them need to talk and reevaluate what they want out of their union, out of their relationship and they both need to decide if they want to remain in the relationship they have.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Thanks for all the replies. Some are a bit out there. Not gonna divorce over her lack
of starting fun in bed. A tad extreme. That’s just how it is. She knows the score. Me too. But thanks for replies.


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## Skookaroo (Jul 12, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Sounds like my wife. She never initiates and the handful of times she has (maybe 5 or so in 10 years) its just her sitting in the chair and then she says "Wanna go have sex?". Now THATS seductive.
> 
> And I get turned down a lot too. I still try to initiate every day and am around a 50 percent success rate. Was around 40 percent a few months ago so its "improving". Eye roll while saying that.





FloridaGuy1 said:


> Sounds like my wife. She never initiates and the handful of times she has (maybe 5 or so in 10 years) its just her sitting in the chair and then she says "Wanna go have sex?". Now THATS seductive.
> 
> And I get turned down a lot too. I still try to initiate every day and am around a 50 percent success rate. Was around 40 percent a few months ago so its "improving". Eye roll while saying that.


Every day? It sounds like you don’t even give her a chance to desire or initiate. With my first husband, he didn’t really give me the chance to desire or initiate. His sex drive was high while mine was relatively low. He jumped on every opportunity. And I started feeling gross and used. Current hubby is always down but waits for me to initiate and go at my pace. I love him so much for it to be honest. I can say I’m much more enthused with husband #2.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Skookaroo said:


> Every day? It sounds like you don’t even give her a chance to desire or initiate. With my first husband, he didn’t really give me the chance to desire or initiate. His sex drive was high while mine was relatively low. He jumped on every opportunity. And I started feeling gross and used. Current hubby is always down but waits for me to initiate and go at my pace. I love him so much for it to be honest. I can say I’m much more enthused with husband #2.


How often do
you initiate?


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Skookaroo said:


> Every day? It sounds like you don’t even give her a chance to desire or initiate. With my first husband, he didn’t really give me the chance to desire or initiate. His sex drive was high while mine was relatively low. He jumped on every opportunity. And I started feeling gross and used. Current hubby is always down but waits for me to initiate and go at my pace. I love him so much for it to be honest. I can say I’m much more enthused with husband #2.


I initiate every day now because for the past few years (4-5) before I started to, if I didn't initiate, we would go 3--4 weeks with no sex at all. So sure, if she would initiate, I wouldn't push for it everyday. However 3-4 years of sex once or twice a month showed me if I don't, she won't.

So needless to say if she was like you, I wouldn't be starting it, I would let her sometimes.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Skookaroo said:


> Every day? It sounds like you don’t even give her a chance to desire or initiate. With my first husband, he didn’t really give me the chance to desire or initiate. His sex drive was high while mine was relatively low. He jumped on every opportunity. And I started feeling gross and used. Current hubby is always down but waits for me to initiate and go at my pace. I love him so much for it to be honest. I can say I’m much more enthused with husband #2.


So how often do you initiate?


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## David60525 (Oct 5, 2021)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Small fight this morning - after she turned me down in golden opportunity, no plans, quiet house - about her never starting up.
> 
> Not since March 2015, and that was only time since then year 2000. Once in 22 years.
> 
> “I have a different sex drive” says she. Yeah, like dead. She says “no” about 6 of my 10 attempts. Better than nothing but it’d be nice if she initiated sometimes. Your thoughts?


If she don't put out, tell her, and assist her to get out.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

David60525 said:


> If she don't put out, tell her, and assist her to get out.


Um, puts out, don’t start. Not divorcing over this


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## Lotsofheart73 (Oct 13, 2021)

I’m curious. I’ve read all the pages over a couple days so maybe I missed this. OP, what would be the ideal # for your wife to initiate? Once a month? Once every 6 months, once a year? Only on your birthday?
What I am kinda wondering is because you already know that her initiating is not naturally happening, what will keep it from feeling “forced”, “fake” or simply to pacify you? And I don’t mean she initiates by saying hey wanna do it while rolling her eyes. I mean some type of initiating that is legit.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Average 8 a month but that includes the “Sunday guaranteed sex”


You’ve got it easy. My wife never initiates also rejects regularity and we have sex on average 2-3 times a month. With no guaranteed sex day.

To give you an example, we last had sex twice over the weekend before last. That was first time in about 3-4 weeks. I initiated this Wednesday and got rejected.

I don’t actually call ours a sex life, it’s basically two people who live together and have sex every now and again when I touch lucky whilst initiating.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

I can't talk for your wife or any other man's wife or gf as I have not had sex with them , 
But I know my wife very well , she does not initiate sex or if she does it is more initiates play and I pick up on that , 

There are many reasons she was told from a very young age sex is dirty and sex is bad from her mother and then school 

Society doesn't view women as sexual beings with any kind of carnal desire. That distinction belongs to men alone AND THEY GROW UP WITH **** SHAMING men are admired if they can bed many women 

Generation after generation, women have been brought up to believe that they are passive pawns in the mating game and that men are supposed to be the pursuers. The best they can do is look coy and pretty and feign a mild protest when their spouses or partners ask for sex. That's how it's been done for centuries and nothing has changed, so they look on their roll in the sex game as it is a reward to them if the guy does the heavy work in the sex game , 

She could be afraid of Sexual rejection makes women question their very self-worth 

All so I think women well my woman likes to be seduced likes to be stripped slowly all very romantic I think it is why ladies like to put on lingerie because it takes us longer to slip each part off and she does not like if I rip it first when I got to play with my wife I thought it was sexy or expected to rip her panties off like we see in movies and porn , but when you know the cost of lingerie and how important some lingerie can be to the woman your feeling how it can make her feel to ware it and have it removed all part of the game 

a bit of a look on this site can help https://www.thehealthsite.com/sexual-health/10-things-women-wish-men-knew-about-sex-193631/


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

frenchpaddy said:


> I can't talk for your wife or any other man's wife or gf as I have not had sex with them ,
> But I know my wife very well , she does not initiate sex or if she does it is more initiates play and I pick up on that ,
> 
> There are many reasons she was told from a very young age sex is dirty and sex is bad from her mother and then school
> ...


It’s sort of a game in sone ways. But I get tired of always having to initiate. I mean, she has initiated once in the past 22 years. I recall it was a Friday night in March 2015. Both then high school kids out of the house. Good times.


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## hub49 (7 mo ago)

I am starting to feel this thread has run its course


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

hub49 said:


> I am starting to feel this thread has run its course


Could be.


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I initiate every day now because for the past few years (4-5) before I started to, if I didn't initiate, we would go 3--4 weeks with no sex at all.


Reminds me of the old joke where a man is standing on a street corner and every woman who passes by, he asks, "do you want to have sex?" The women would slap him and move on. Another man is standing near by watching this and goes up to the man and asks, why are you doing this? Don't you realize how often you get slapped? The man responds, "yes, and I get a lot of sex too."


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Diceplayer said:


> Reminds me of the old joke where a man is standing on a street corner and every woman who passes by, he asks, "do you want to have sex?" The women would slap him and move on. Another man is standing near by watching this and goes up to the man and asks, why are you doing this? Don't you realize how often you get slapped? The man responds, "yes, and I get a lot of sex too."


when I tell my wife “The Great One” to explain why I am trying, she understands. “You miss 100 percent of the shots you don’t take” - Wayne Gretzky


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

BIL310 said:


> You’ve got it easy. My wife never initiates also rejects regularity and we have sex on average 2-3 times a month. With no guaranteed sex day.


You'd get sex more often from a friends-with-benefits relationship.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Sfort said:


> You'd get sex more often from a friends-with-benefits relationship.


2 to 3 a month? We are in our early 60s. Average twice a week.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Longtime Hubby said:


> 2 to 3 a month? We are in our early 60s. Average twice a week.


The reply was to BIL310.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Sfort said:


> The reply was to BIL310.


My bad 
easily confused here! lol


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

Rob_1 said:


> I don't know dudes, but let me tell you. My wife never ever have initiated, I do, the key here is that I understand that she is responsive, and that's her, and I understand that.. And so does she.
> 
> The other thing that a lot dudes need to understand is that for most women (and I mean even if they're in their peak of youth, and horniness) you as a male need to know that to get to that moment you must have started earlier with the seduction on a very organic manner, other than you just coming in and demanding sex. Come-on dudes, WTF?
> 
> ...


yeah I totally agree with this-- the sexual thing for women has to start with the ongoing connection piece you talk about. (other than the just-sex relationships of course, FWB, 18-22 yr olds etc). 

My personal problem is that lately because of our conflicts, I have not WANTED to connect with my wife very much. I tend to want alone time anyway, natural introvert, and then throw on the conflict and i just want nothing to do with her. Then she feels the same way-- unwanted, not connected, emotionally safe. And then we do not have sex. Sometimes, for several weeks.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Beats “let’s make it fast” or “you didnt cum yet?” How about the time i was giving oral homage, looked up to see her facial expression and saw her checking her nails? feel good moment


That’s an entirely different problem than “she doesn’t initiate“


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

DudeInProgress said:


> That’s an entirely different problem than “she doesn’t initiate“


Yeah, it's a worse problem


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

DudeInProgress said:


> That’s an entirely different problem than “she doesn’t initiate“


Yes but just once


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Lotsofheart73 said:


> I’m curious. I’ve read all the pages over a couple days so maybe I missed this. OP, what would be the ideal # for your wife to initiate? Once a month? Once every 6 months, once a year? Only on your birthday?
> What I am kinda wondering is because you already know that her initiating is not naturally happening, what will keep it from feeling “forced”, “fake” or simply to pacify you? And I don’t mean she initiates by saying hey wanna do it while rolling her eyes. I mean some type of initiating that is legit.


Legit would be nice. surprise me! No quota.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

I'd be happy with her initiating a time or two a month with some seductive means whereby she showed some real interest.


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## Lotsofheart73 (Oct 13, 2021)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Legit would be nice. surprise me! No quota.


What I also meant was, what will keep it (initiating) from feeling “forced” or “fake” since you already know that it is not part of her natural behavior?


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Lotsofheart73 said:


> What I also meant was, what will keep it (initiating) from feeling “forced” or “fake” since you already know that it is not part of her natural behavior?


I think the same thing could be asked about those that said they gave their spouse an ultimatum of either sex or the marriage is over. How do you deal with it when you could feel that would be feeling fake just to keep one from leaving?


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

I had never heard the term responsive desire until I started hanging around here....I would think if a woman I was with rarely or never initiated, I would just assume she didn't want it....and if she did comply after initiating was it because she wanted to or was compelled out of duty or obligation?...None of these things seem all that appealing...

Your mileage may vary, as they say.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I think the same thing could be asked about those that said they gave their spouse an ultimatum of either sex or the marriage is over. How do you deal with it when you could feel that would be feeling fake just to keep one from leaving?


Decide what you want. You can’t have everything. Isn’t it enough that you get what you want?


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Decide what you want. You can’t have everything. Isn’t it enough that you get what you want?


But thats not what we hear on TAM. That you SHOULD get what you want and maybe it IS everything?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> But thats not what we hear on TAM. That you SHOULD get what you want and maybe it IS everything?


But you are getting what you want. She’s doing what you want her to do, why would that not be enough? (Not you specifically, the general “you” of whoever is asking her to initiate. )


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## Skookaroo (Jul 12, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> So how often do you initiate?


Hmmmm… Probably averages to about once a week. However, sometimes we go two days in a row or a whole month without. We are both relatively low drive. Sometimes I get the feeling he’s actually lower drive than me! Which is something lol. But he’s also very busy and stressed these days and that’s a factor. The biggest thing though is that we are both emotionally driven people, so it usually depends on how we are feeling and how connected we are. We had a baby in October and went 6 months without during that time. He never put pressure on me. I know for me personally I would be very unhappy in a relationship where every single day I was asked for sex no matter my mood, no matter the events of the day. I imagine in that context sex feeling expected and unemotional and therefore unpleasant and then being faced with the choice of either turning down my husband to be true to what I want or just obliging to prevent problems. Lose lose for wifey. I want sex to be a positive, enjoyable experience for everyone involved. I’m grateful I found a partner who gives me space to do that.


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## Lotsofheart73 (Oct 13, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I think the same thing could be asked about those that said they gave their spouse an ultimatum of either sex or the marriage is over. How do you deal with it when you could feel that would be feeling fake just to keep one from leaving?


Yes, I agree. That’s why I’m asking. Would like to hear perspective on that. Because I don’t see how it could not feel fake or forced if it’s become an issue.

And to further what you mentioned, it applies even when the an ultimatum is not used. I’m expierencing it currently myself for past two years. I have not threatened divorce or alluded to it but now that sex had become such an issue that every encounter feels forced.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Skookaroo said:


> Hmmmm… Probably averages to about once a week. However, sometimes we go two days in a row or a whole month without. We are both relatively low drive. Sometimes I get the feeling he’s actually lower drive than me! Which is something lol. But he’s also very busy and stressed these days and that’s a factor. The biggest thing though is that we are both emotionally driven people, so it usually depends on how we are feeling and how connected we are. We had a baby in October and went 6 months without during that time. He never put pressure on me. I know for me personally I would be very unhappy in a relationship where every single day I was asked for sex no matter my mood, no matter the events of the day. I imagine in that context sex feeling expected and unemotional and therefore unpleasant and then being faced with the choice of either turning down my husband to be true to what I want or just obliging to prevent problems. Lose lose for wifey. I want sex to be a positive, enjoyable experience for everyone involved. I’m grateful I found a partner who gives me space to do that.


Thats good you found someone that is sexually compatible and as you said you both are relatively low drive. Probably why it works for you all. I think where most problems occur is where partners are mixed drive levels.

And six months is admirable as I don't think some guys would be OK with that even following childbirth from other things I have read here. Or a month without as thats what we see here some guys claiming and it drives them nuts.


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## St.MichaelisMyAvatar (5 mo ago)

I won't come back here so probably won't see replies... 


I have mini bouts of this in my marriage. I have learned a lot. First of all, I think 99% is hormonal. 
Imagine how you feel like 5 minutes after you cum, and then imagine that's your wife's total existence. Her brain is like that feeling we get when we finish her for the night and don't want to do it anymore. 
Second, HER HORMONES are probably ****ed up from birth control or age. I am in same position as but confront it head on "why don't you want to be intimate with me more often?", followed by a "it's really not usual for people our age, can we go to an endocrinologist to make sure that we are both producing g healthy levels of hormones? 
, of course I take it personally but it is likely that she has a chemical imbalance. I can't get into other things now that but YOU SHOULD GET ON TRY THERAPY FOR MORE TESTOSTERONE if you are over 40,when I did I went from once every 2-3 months to once a week because it mattered to me again. 

Look into using comfortable but specific phrases that are kind and not angry like "intimacy" & ask her why SHE THINKS she's not horny. Maybe stress you can help with.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Oh, come on. Good grief. Sex twice a week and you're sulled up because you want her to start. Now that I know that, I have little to no sympathy left for you. That is your ego talking. Get over it. Be glad you're having sex twice a week with a woman in menopause.


sheesh. Is it wrong to want her to start? Evidently


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Longtime Hubby said:


> sheesh. Is it wrong to want her to start? Evidently


Nothing wrong with wanting what you want. 

Yes it would be wonderful if wives initiated. Some do some don’t. Everyone has a different personality. After years of marriage the die is pretty much cast IMO. I quit tilting at windmills, trying to push big rocks up steep hills decades ago.

How to get what you want, I have no advice. In your opening post she told you her position on the matter. I guess all you can do is try to convince her to initiate more. Good luck with that.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> Nothing wrong with wanting what you want.
> 
> Yes it would be wonderful if wives initiated. Some do some don’t. Everyone has a different personality. After years of marriage the die is pretty much cast IMO.
> 
> How to get what you want, I have no advice. In your opening post she told you her position on the matter. I guess all you can do is try to convince her to initiate more. Good luck with that.


Thanks, Rus47. We shall see. I try to break
it up by using new approaches now and then. She enjoys. me too


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Here are some good articles for you and your wife to check out. 









Why am I always the one who has to initiate sex? - Uncovering Intimacy


Why do I always have to initiate sex? Have you ever asked yourself that question? Or maybe your spouse has asked you. Either way, this might help.




www.uncoveringintimacy.com













Why lower-drive spouses should initiate sex - Uncovering Intimacy


Alright, we all know that your spouse would love it if you'd initiate sex more as a low-drive spouse. But I think there's a more important reason to.




www.uncoveringintimacy.com


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Here are some good articles for you and your wife to check out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Longtime Hubby said:


> sheesh. Is it wrong to want her to start? Evidently


It's not who she is and you've always known that. And if she doesn't want more sex than you, what would be her motivation to initiate it. That's all.


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## Quad73 (May 10, 2021)

There have been a few husbands here including myself that have slowly figured out ways to have their responsive wives initiate more passively (ie more naturally to them).

My wife leaves a "signal" every morning re whether her work day and health can accommodate some sex. It's 90% "go for it, initiate at will after x o'clock buddy". It can be as simple as a sticky note beside my coffee with a time written on it and nothing else. Very hot for me to find those I gotta add. 

Could she get behind something like that OP? For my wife it's empowering and makes her happy, because she can be an active participant without doing the "actual" initiating. She can be coy and quiet about it.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> It's not who she is and you've always known that. And if she doesn't want more sex than you, what would be her motivation to initiate it. That's all.


No. Not always. She used to start.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Longtime Hubby said:


> No. Not always. She used to start.


Refer to the second sentence, then.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

always says after “mmm that was good,” look, I’m not gonna argue. Better things to do. it is what it is. Still getting some, I start up fun, so be it

see ya


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> It's not who she is and you've always known that. *And if she doesn't want more sex than you, what would be her motivation to initiate it. * That's all.


It would be because she enjoys pleasing her husband.

My wife loves getting massages from me, more than I really want to give them sometimes. Quite often I do it without her asking because I know she always wants one and I know she loves it when I do it. I also end up getting enjoyment out of it myself. Exact same principle can apply to sex.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> It would be because she enjoys pleasing her husband.
> 
> My wife loves getting massages from me, more than I really want to give them sometimes. Quite often I do it without her asking because I know she always wants one and I know she loves it when I do it. I also end up getting enjoyment out of it myself. Exact same principle can apply to sex.


voice of reason. Thanks


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

So then you have your answer. And keep in mind she's 60. She doesn't want it bad enough to initiate it anymore. Why don't you go a month without initiating and see if she will?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> It would be because she enjoys pleasing her husband.
> 
> My wife loves getting massages from me, more than I really want to give them sometimes. Quite often I do it without her asking because I know she always wants one and I know she loves it when I do it. I also end up getting enjoyment out of it myself. Exact same principle can apply to sex.


Does she reciprocate when you give her a massage?


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> So then you have your answer. And keep in mind she's 60. She doesn't want it bad enough to initiate it anymore. Why don't you go a month without initiating and see if she will?


No can do
we have our Sunday guarantee even if argue on Saturday night


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Longtime Hubby said:


> always says after “mmm that was good,” look, I’m not gonna argue. Better things to do. it is what it is. Still getting some, I start up fun, so be it
> 
> see ya


A lot of people also feel great leaving the gym to not go back for another two months. It how people are. Accept it or leave it but *don’t* ever think you can change it.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

RebuildingMe said:


> A lot of people also feel great leaving the gym to not go back for another two months. It how people are. Accept it or leave it but *don’t* ever think you can change it.


A man can dream! Gotcha


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Does she reciprocate when you give her a massage?


Yes, she will massage me sometimes without being prompted.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Beats “let’s make it fast” or “you didnt cum yet?” How about the time i was giving oral homage, looked up to see her facial expression and saw her checking her nails? feel good moment


This is a little different than what you just told me "mmm, that was good." So, in reality, it's been a mixed bag. I still hold to my second sentence. If she wasn't already getting it as much or more than she wanted it, since you say she used to initiate, I believe she would again if you waited long enough to see. Then you'd have some idea where her true need is at these days. She's 60.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

And you're inferring that if she cared enough to want to please you, she'd initiate. What if by having sex with you guaranteed Sunday night and saying "mmm, that was good," that is her way of showing she wants to please you? It's a little me, me, me and one-sided. What would be her optimum sex schedule? Do you just not want to know? Does that mean you don't care enough to want to please her by finding that out and then going by it?

On a happy note, guess what? It's Sunday!

And BTW, I'm not picking on you. You're picking on yourself. I like you just fine. I think you are hung up on validation.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Not since March 2015, and that was only time since then year 2000. Once in 22 years.





Longtime Hubby said:


> “I have a different sex drive” says she. Yeah, like dead.


She initiated once at age 53, so yeah drive proly hasn't increased much as she aged. I will testify that if her libido was/is "dead" and she *wanted* it to be otherwise she could have it otherwise. And might start initiating every night and twice on Sundays as a consequence.

I would submit age is pretty irrelevant, my wife is closer to 8 than 7 decades on the odometer. Her version of initiating now is some suggestive words. But before she stopped HRT her version of initiating if I didn't first was very direct. About as subtle as a barn door slamming.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> She initiated once at age 53, so yeah drive proly hasn't increased much as she aged. I will testify that if her libido was/is "dead" and she *wanted* it to be otherwise she could have it otherwise. And might start initiating every night and twice on Sundays as a consequence.
> 
> I would submit age is pretty irrelevant, my wife is closer to 8 than 7 decades on the odometer. Her version of initiating now is some suggestive words. But before she stopped HRT her version of initiating if I didn't first was very direct. About as subtle as a barn door slamming.


Listen, I am 69 and I can guarantee you that there are many and varied physical things quite separate and apart from hormones that can and will eventually slow you down sexually. I am not going to enumerate, but there are things that can stop sex from happening in any recognizable form as you age. And there is also menopause, with or without HRT. HRT is good for some things, bad for some things, but it is no guarantee you will still be running hot. I have always been on HRT but I slowed down pretty much on schedule gradually all the same.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Time to move along


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## Lotsofheart73 (Oct 13, 2021)

Maybe I missed this somewhere in all these pages. OP what does wife say if you bring this up (not in the bedroom) in casual conversation??
Does she truly know how you feel? That’s this is a big deal to you? 

And please, don’t start playing games such as holding out to see if/when she initiates. Too me that is playing games and going down the wrong road.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

No games played. she knows how i feel

does not matter tonight. she just tested positive for her 2nd round of the Wuhan Flu.


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## EB123 (Jan 9, 2022)

Longtime Hubby said:


> No games played. she knows how i feel
> 
> does not matter tonight. she just tested positive for her 2nd round of the Wuhan Flu.


Your poor wife. Bless her heart. I hope she recovers quickly. I’ve lost several family members to covid. I’m sick of covid!


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Longtime Hubby said:


> No games played. she knows how i feel
> 
> does not matter tonight. she just tested positive for her 2nd round of the Wuhan Flu.


Thanks. I tested negative.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

EB123 said:


> Your poor wife. Bless her heart. I hope she recovers quickly. I’ve lost several family members to covid. I’m sick of covid!


Sorry for your loss. Thanks for support. I tested negative


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## EB123 (Jan 9, 2022)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Sorry for your loss. Thanks for support. I tested negative


That’s good to hear. Praying you stay negative.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

EB123 said:


> That’s good to hear. Praying you stay negative.


Thank you very much


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Longtime Hubby said:


> No games played. she knows how i feel
> 
> does not matter tonight. she just tested positive for her 2nd round of the Wuhan Flu.


Sorry about the wuhan crud. Wife n I had it for second time month back. Kinda takes wind out of person's sails. At our age, puts sex on back burner for sure.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

EB123 said:


> I’m sick of covid!


So are we all. Unfortunately our lives are now all about covid or monkey pox or shortages or high prices.


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## EB123 (Jan 9, 2022)

Rus47 said:


> So are we all. Unfortunately our lives are now all about covid or monkey pox or shortages or high prices.


That’s the truth!


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> Sorry about the wuhan crud. Wife n I had it for second time month back. Kinda takes wind out of person's sails. At our age, puts sex on back burner for sure.


Yep. I avoid it somehow. And my job has me out and about a lot.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Sorry for your loss. Thanks for support. I tested negative


If you tested yourself at home they say need test 48 hours later again because could be a false negative. I tested negative at doctor office, but had it for sure just from symptoms. Wife got sick two days later with symptoms and tested positive at doctors office.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> If you tested yourself at home they say need test 48 hours later again because could be a false negative. I tested negative at doctor office, but had it for sure just from symptoms. Wife got sick two days later with symptoms and tested positive at doctors office.


Thanks for info!


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Thanks for info!


Some people seem to have innate immunity to wuhan plague. Maybe hopefully you are one if those.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> Some people seem to have innate immunity to wuhan plague. Maybe hopefully you are one if those.


I’m starting to think so.
wife got bad when I called it Wuhan Flu and said China must be proud.

Where did it start? Who covered it up? Who was late alerting world? Who was burning piles of bodies?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Who was doing what, and what was World Health Organization (WHO) doing when it started?


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> Who was doing what, and what was World Health Organization (WHO) doing when it started?


WHO didn’t do jack ****. waited till spread


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

Longtime Hubby said:


> WHO didn’t do jack ****. waited till spread


Has anything changed over last few months? Or still not initiating?


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

BIL310 said:


> Has anything changed over last few months? Or still not initiating?


Still not.


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## karmagoround (Aug 27, 2021)

If I'm not desired, I have no desire. If she's not interested, then neither am I. And I'd never be able to make it with a hooker, as faking it doesn't make it for me. 
No libido? Time to go go.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

I think my youngest and myself are immune to it now. The other three in our home came down with it a second time, nowhere near as bad as the first time. We were around all three and never had symptoms or tested positive.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

ABHale said:


> I think my youngest and myself are immune to it now. The other three in our home came down with it a second time, nowhere near as bad as the first time. We were around all three and never had symptoms or tested positive.


That is a hope I have. Wife n I have had it twice. One year apart. Symptoms same same. Both times lot of congestion. Methyl Prednisone cleared our lungs. I hope this isnt a yearly thing


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

ABHale said:


> I think my youngest and myself are immune to it now. The other three in our home came down with it a second time, nowhere near as bad as the first time. We were around all three and never had symptoms or tested positive.


How is this related to this thread? It's a threadjack out of nowhere.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Livvie said:


> How is this related to this thread? It's a threadjack out of nowhere.


The thread starter was absent for awhile, then posted about he and his wife having Covid. 

If thread starter allows or facilitates subject drift is it a TJ? Can a person hijack their own thread?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Rus47 said:


> The thread starter was absent for awhile, then posted about he and his wife having Covid.
> 
> If thread starter allows or facilitates subject drift is it a TJ? Can a person hijack their own thread?


I don't know but the last comment about covid was a month ago and then just got started up again _after_ topic went back to initiating.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Livvie said:


> How is this related to this thread? It's a threadjack out of nowhere.


Because it was brought up in the thread.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Rus47 said:


> The thread starter was absent for awhile, then posted about he and his wife having Covid.
> 
> If thread starter allows or facilitates subject drift is it a TJ? Can a person hijack their own thread?


In this case it's not a thread jack... since the OP brought it up.


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