# Advice on wife and coworker



## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

My wife and I went through some relationship issues a few months back. We communicated well through it, got to the bottom of it, and have been working together to fix it.
Things with us have been great, but all of a sudden I am hearing her mention a guy from work more. I found out for Secret Santa last year she bought him cologne. He now refers to himself as English Leather when he talks to her. I let her know I thought cologne was a bit too personal a gift for a male coworker but I understood that she just thought it to be a funny gift, after all it is English Leather. The next day after this conversation, she asks if it was ok if over the summer she takes our kids over to his place to use their pool. They are both teachers with summers off. I explained to her that I would not be thrilled at work all day knowing my wife is hanging out with another man in her bathing suit all day. I asked her if she would be happy with me doing the same and she says she understands. The next day, this guy calls her at home during the dinner hour to ask her advice on something.
I don't want to come off as controlling, but this is starting to seem as though he is trying to start moving in on my wife.
any thoughts?


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## JustAnotherMan (Jun 27, 2012)

I am no veteran of such situations, but it would make me uncomfortable and nervous. They have the whole summer to work this relationship.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

nogutsnoglory said:


> My wife and I went through some relationship issues a few months back. We communicated well through it, got to the bottom of it, and have been working together to fix it.
> Things with us have been great, but all of a sudden I am hearing her mention a guy from work more. I found out for Secret Santa last year she bought him cologne. He now refers to himself as English Leather when he talks to her. I let her know I thought cologne was a bit too personal a gift for a male coworker but I understood that she just thought it to be a funny gift, after all it is English Leather. The next day after this conversation, she asks if it was ok if over the summer she takes our kids over to his place to use their pool. They are both teachers with summers off. I explained to her that I would not be thrilled at work all day knowing my wife is hanging out with another man in her bathing suit all day. I asked her if she would be happy with me doing the same and she says she understands. *The next day, this guy calls her at home during the dinner hour to ask her advice on something.*
> I don't want to come off as controlling, but this is starting to seem as though he is trying to start moving in on my wife.
> any thoughts?


What possible advise could your W give this man that he could not get from some other unattached person? What question did he have that only your W could answer?

Yes, I agree. It is rather suspicious. It does appear that he is attempting to move in on your wife.


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## Rob774 (Sep 27, 2010)

Welcome to TAM... sorry that you have indeed found yourself here.

Your situation, is easy (at least as an outsider) to address. Your wife, needs to look up the term "Boundaries." There are certain boundaries that have to be respected in dealing with the opposite s-x when you are already in a relationship, especially when you are married.

But her and the guy's motives good be purely innocent... till he sees her in a bikini with her double D's popping out, and she takes a glance and his ripped pecs and abs, and you are flabby. I'm just say, why introduce something like this, when it doesn't have to be the case. Its one thing, if you were there. I'd be really, really, uncomfortable if my wife hung out at a neighbor's pool, regardless if the kids were there or not. Kids won't prevent the gawking, kids won't prevent the flirting. That "pseudo" alone time can turn harmless banter, joke flirting, into something more.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

You said "their" pool rather than "his" pool - does that mean this guy is married? Or is it an apartment complex that allows guests?

Bypass the pool issue by offering an alternative - get a YMCA membership or a local gym that has family swim time. But arguably - there will likely be men there as well to see her in her bathing suit. So - is the core issue this guy or any guy and/or her spending time at the pool with the kids while you are at work?

Edited to add: If the wife has a bikini with her "double Ds poking out" - maybe a boundary to be discussed is the type of bathing suit she gets. As - if that's true it will be true whether its at a neighbors pool or at Six Flags on a family vacation.


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## Hope4thebest (Nov 28, 2012)

Not just Friends By Dr. Shirley Glass.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

nogutsnoglory said:


> My wife and I went through some relationship issues a few months back. We communicated well through it, got to the bottom of it, and have been working together to fix it.
> Things with us have been great, but all of a sudden I am hearing her mention a guy from work more. I found out for Secret Santa last year she bought him cologne. He now refers to himself as English Leather when he talks to her. I let her know I thought cologne was a bit too personal a gift for a male coworker but I understood that she just thought it to be a funny gift, after all it is English Leather. The next day after this conversation, *she asks if it was ok if over the summer she takes our kids over to his place to use their pool.* They are both teachers with summers off. I explained to her that I would not be thrilled at work all day knowing my wife is hanging out with another man in her bathing suit all day. I asked her if she would be happy with me doing the same and* she says she understands*. The next day, *this guy calls her at home during the dinner hour to ask *her advice on something.
> I don't want to come off as controlling, but this is starting to seem as though he is trying to start moving in on my wife.
> any thoughts?


There is a very good possibility that there has bee something, not sure how much, going on. The things that make me take notice are the things I've emboldened. What I wonder is, why does she need to take the kids to his place to swim? Can you get a family pass for the local pool where all the parents and children play? 

They have a little "inside joke" about the cologne. If he was just a colleague and associate friend, there wouldn't be a need for "inside jokes". That means there may, but not certainly could be other "inside jokes" that are personal. "Inside jokes" by their definition are personal to the few that know what they mean. Therefore, they are already in conversations without others knowledge. 

He probably knows what time you eat. They work together and have "inside jokes". So he is doing a variation of "c**k bl*****g." He has enough confidence to know that your wife will allow her family dinner to be disturbed by his conversation. I guess she didn't tell him you were in the middle of dinner, did she? That's a total lack of respect and there is probably a lot more going on that you don't know about. 

Some more experienced members will know how to get to the bottom of this and make sure things are dealt with properly. Good luck.

Edit: I bet some of their coworkers have suspicions. That doesn't mean there is something going on. It just means that they may think something is going on, just as you do. They would see things you don't. 

You need to do some careful questioning and surveillance. Like I said, there are some very experienced members here who can help much more than me. Don't throw everything in the trash, but you need to do something before it goes too far. Hopefully, it hasn't yet. 

First off, are you sure you are meeting your wife's needs to the best of your ability? Usually things happen when needs are not met. Hang in there. Don't panic. There will be help for you coming.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

He is married with kids and his wife is an exec at a large company.
She says he never invited her. She saw pics of his pool on his phone and she asked me if she could ask him.
Another issue is that she mentioned he remarked to her that "She and I seem to have a good thing going." she thought I would be happy to hear that, but I asked her in what context was he asking you this, What was the conversation that led to this comment? She replied with "I don't remember" this is always her response when the answer is not something she feels I want to hear. She has a history of answering questions with half truths or lies to avoid what in her mind is unnecessary confrontation.
I feel like he said that because he is fishing for a favorable response.


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

nogutsnoglory said:


> He is married with kids and his wife is an exec at a large company.
> She says he never invited her. She saw pics of his pool on his phone and she asked me if she could ask him.
> Another issue is that she mentioned he remarked to her that "She and I seem to have a good thing going." she thought I would be happy to hear that, but I asked her in what context was he asking you this, What was the conversation that led to this comment? She replied with "I don't remember" this is always her response when the answer is not something she feels I want to hear. She has a history of answering questions with half truths or lies to avoid what in her mind is unnecessary confrontation.
> I feel like he said that because he is fishing for a favorable response.


He showed her the pool pics to give her an excuse to come over. He mentioned that you seemed to have a good thing going in order to gauge her response and look for ****** in the marriage where there is something she isn't happy with that he can exploit.

Regardless of your wife, this man is trouble. I would not be comfortable with him at all.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

nogutsnoglory said:


> He is married with kids and his wife is an exec at a large company.
> She says he never invited her. She saw pics of his pool on his phone and she asked me if she could ask him.
> Another issue is that she mentioned he remarked to her that "She and I seem to have a good thing going." she thought I would be happy to hear that, but I asked her in what context was he asking you this, What was the conversation that led to this comment? She replied with "I don't remember" this is always her response when the answer is not something she feels I want to hear. She has a history of answering questions with half truths or lies to avoid what in her mind is unnecessary confrontation.
> I feel like he said that because he is fishing for a favorable response.


Yeah...umm..."I don't remember" is unacceptable as she knows absolutely what context it was in.

As 2 said, little inside jokes are just the beginning.

Tell her no. Plain and simple. No pool. No more phone calls. Nothing.

The worst part about co-workers is they already share plenty by working together against "the man" or in this case "the man" AND "the kids" they teach. Don't allow any more kind of common sh-t to survive.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Look up "Truth About Deception".


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

DANGER!! DANGER!! WARNING!! WARNING!! EA/PA's are closer than they appear!!

seriously,I wouldn't accept this in my relationship and neither would SO.
You're right to be concerned.Not because I think she would be the instigator but I think the man would be and she would fall into it before she even realized what was happening.Unless she's street smart and she can read between the lines.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

OP educators are notorious for infidelity. My wife is an administrator but honestly it seems like she works at Peyton Place. I am always on alert. She was talking about a colleague the other day and said something rather suggestive about him she thought I would think was funny. I immediately let her know I was not amused.

I am quite confident she had an EA that she hid under deep cover. There are about two affairs, that I hear of, every year in the district. They always are ripping two families apart. It never ends.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Yeah, guy is fishing for an affair.

No pool parties at his place. That basically gives him nice isolated time to talk and share with him.

The more her praises your marriage, the more he wants to undermine it.

Men do not go around talking about and praising other people's relationships. They simply don't.

No, what he was doing was saying to her "see I'm not a predator, I see what a great relationship you have. Oh, I bet that's because you are such a wonderful person to be with, and hopefully your pig husband values you as much as I would...."

Yeah, this guy is a rat. And a horrible smelling rat if he wears that stuff,


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

"Sure, Baby. Sounds Great! Oh, that reminds me. Me and the hot new secretary at work are having a sleepover, Friday night."


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

nogutsnoglory said:


> He is married with kids and his wife is an exec at a large company.
> She says he never invited her. She saw pics of his pool on his phone and she asked me if she could ask him.
> Another issue is that she mentioned he remarked to her that "She and I seem to have a good thing going." she thought I would be happy to hear that, but I asked her in what context was he asking you this,* What was the conversation *that led to this comment? She replied with *"I don't remember"* this is always her response when the answer is not something she feels I want to hear. She has a *history* of answering questions with *half truths or lies *to avoid what in her mind is unnecessary confrontation.
> I feel like he said that because *he is fishing *for a favorable response.


Yep. ahuh. Look up "The Healing Heart". It talks about doing "the 180". You may need that. I think you need to get some information about what is going on first. I think you need to get to the bottom of what her needs are and what you need to do to meet them, if possible. It all depends on what you find out. You have to know approximately how far it has gone to know which course of action to start with. 

Like Dig said, you need to grab a hold of your marriage with two hands and say, this is mine. You would do this for your marriage, your wife and yourself. You have to decide if it is worth it to you. That's why you need a bit more information. 

I think "His Needs, Her Needs" would be a good book to read. It will teach you two how to build a stronger bond. The trouble is, you need to know where you stand. Is it too late already?

So, figure out if you want to keep your marriage. Grab onto your marriage with two hands and take ownership of what is yours. Find out as much as you can. Decide what needs to try meeting. Work, work, work. You can do it.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

This guy is trouble. I would get in touch with the omw and share notes let her know you think this is getting out of control. It will be good to have another set of eyes on this.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

I think the bigger issue here is why in the Effe would your wife think it would be ok to ask if she could go hang out with some guy at the pool (kids around or not)....

Bud your being tested, Boundaries figure out what yours are.

EDIT: If my wife asked me something like that now, I would say "Sure honey, I'll pack ALL of your clothes and drive you over and drop you off" and I would expect her to tell me the same if I asked her something along those lines.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

tom67 said:


> This guy is trouble. I would get in touch with the omw and share notes let her know you think this is getting out of control. It will be good to have another set of eyes on this.


Gather evidence first. Never tell her everything you know. It takes time. Don't let on anything till it's necessary. Don't tell her what you think is going on. The things you will want to show her is that you are working on claiming your marriage and meeting her needs. The surveillance needs to be done before you give her a bunch of information about what you know.

Edit: If I am wrong here, call me out. I don't want to lead him astray. It's no problem guys.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Teachers are top 10 cheaters. Sorry. Im a stray CWI guy here on general.

Anyway. I would do LOWEST level snooping. NEVER confront. NEVER reveal electronic means! Are her FB and email open and avail to you?

How much does she mention him? 
How much time does she have when you are not around?

The problem is you are in a gray area. My spidey senses are tingling but... eh... its close.

KEEP YOUR RADAR UP.

Do you have each others facebook passes? Look for him hidden as a female. The fake accounts usually have only 1 or a couple friends and can be seen that way.

Is her phone locked? Is it always with her?

Do you have her email password?

See the bottom link in my signature. He MIGHT be a player My signature shows how players work. Google how to seduce a married woman. It is neither hard nor complicated. Basically 1) become "friends" 2) Left handed comments like I guess your husband must work really hard to not give you enough time. 3) If he does not help with the kids. He ALWAYS helps with the kids. 4) He says my "wife is mean." 5) He pays attention to her Women LOVE attention. He listens. They love that too. he does not really care but knows it works. 6) He works her up from normal to flirty to sexting to kissing to PIV.

Definitely tell her no on the pool. you look alpha setting boundaries. These boundaries are for you too.

*IF* you get a harder red flag. I would go the VAR route. You are not QUITE there... I think.


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Yeah, this guy is a rat. And a horrible smelling rat if he wears that stuff,


LOL!


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Put your foot down....squarely between your wife and this man. Do not be afraid to call him up and threaten to beat his butt if he continues with his probing into your family's life. 

Start snooping. VARs, check her emails, check the cell logs to see how many times they call each other. This is a fledgling romance and you need to nip it in the bud.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

It goes like this.
instigate, isolate, escalate.

I wonder which one is pushing this?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Hospital workers too, weightlifter. I know from experience in my first marriage. I could curl your hair with the stories. I'm not bragging, either. I'm sad for having to know it.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

weightlifter said:


> Teachers are top 10 cheaters. Sorry. Im a stray CWI guy here on general.
> 
> Anyway. *I would do LOWEST level snooping. NEVER confront. NEVER reveal electronic means! Are her FB and email open and avail to you?*
> *How much does she mention him?
> ...



This is good advice. You don't need to panic. Just do the work and claim your marriage. You don't need to threaten anyone. You don't need to have a nervous breakdown. Just do the work. The results will start to reveal what is going on. If you lose control and blow this out of proportion, you could lose your marriage over nothing. Educate yourself and take ownership of your marriage. It is your right. Try to meet her needs without telling her about the surveillance. You don't need to blow this wide open till you know what is going on and how to handle it properly. It could be simply and easily taken care of, but you need to educate yourself and take the "bull by the horns".


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

nogutsnoglory said:


> My wife and I went through some relationship issues a few months back. We communicated well through it, got to the bottom of it, and have been working together to fix it.
> Things with us have been great, but all of a sudden I am hearing her mention a guy from work more. I found out for Secret Santa last year she bought him cologne. He now refers to himself as English Leather when he talks to her. I let her know I thought cologne was a bit too personal a gift for a male coworker but I understood that she just thought it to be a funny gift, after all it is English Leather. The next day after this conversation, she asks if it was ok if over the summer she takes our kids over to his place to use their pool. They are both teachers with summers off. I explained to her that I would not be thrilled at work all day knowing my wife is hanging out with another man in her bathing suit all day. I asked her if she would be happy with me doing the same and she says she understands. The next day, this guy calls her at home during the dinner hour to ask her advice on something.
> I don't want to come off as *controlling*, but this is starting to seem as though he is trying to start moving in on my wife.
> any thoughts?


I have not read any of the replies yet but really...MEN NEED TO STOP BEING AFRAID OF THE 'C' WORD...CONTROLLING!


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

nogutsnoglory said:


> My wife and I went through some relationship issues a few months back. We communicated well through it, got to the bottom of it, and have been working together to fix it.


What happened? It probably has a lot of bearing on what's going through her mind right now.



nogutsnoglory said:


> Things with us have been great, but all of a sudden I am hearing her mention a guy from work more.


Always nice when she inadvertently acts as your lookout. This is a great example of the limbic (autonomic) nature of female sexual attraction. She's showing you her cards before her cortex even knows how the cards are going to be played. It also may be a pretty good indicator that she's never had an affair before. Has she?



nogutsnoglory said:


> I found out for Secret Santa last year she bought him cologne. He now refers to himself as English Leather when he talks to her. I let her know I thought cologne was a bit too personal a gift for a male coworker but I understood that she just thought it to be a funny gift, after all it is English Leather.


So, what this means is that Santa ain't a Secret anymore and probably wasn't even before the gift exchange. Presumably, he was already wearing it and that's why she got it.



nogutsnoglory said:


> The next day after this conversation, she asks if it was ok if over the summer she takes our kids over to his place to use their pool. They are both teachers with summers off.


Idle minds with a full summer on their hands. In the hierarchy of adulteresses, here is the current breakdown:


#1.Teachers
#2. Stay-at-home Moms
#3. Nurses
#4. Administrative Assistants
#5. Real Estate Agents

Male teachers are not in the top five, because there are relatively few of them compared to 50 years ago. However, the few that remain and have any kind of sex appeal are _very_ busy.



nogutsnoglory said:


> I explained to her that I would not be thrilled at work all day knowing my wife is hanging out with another man in her bathing suit all day. I asked her if she would be happy with me doing the same and she says she understands.


Good move. Now get them all a pool membership so your wife can drop of the kids and meet up with him for a while each day. See how that works? You probably need to GPS her car and while you're at it, use velcro to stick a VAR to her driver's seat bottom.



nogutsnoglory said:


> The next day, this guy calls her at home during the dinner hour to ask her advice on something.
> I don't want to come off as controlling, but this is starting to seem as though he is trying to start moving in on my wife.
> any thoughts?


Yeah, you don't want to come off as controlling. It's a sexual turn-on when a husband mate guards. It's a sexual turn-off when he's clueless.



nogutsnoglory said:


> He is married with kids and his wife is an exec at a large company.


They may well have some kind of open agreement. When I was a cog in the big machine, I worked right below top level management in a very, very large organization with an inordinate number of female execs and upper management that was basically a swinger's club. I don't know how many husbands knew, but two of these upwardly mobile women introduced me to their husbands just so I would know it was okay. So maybe with your wife's BF's marriage what's good for the executive goose is good for the teaching gander.



nogutsnoglory said:


> She says he never invited her. She saw pics of his pool on his phone and she asked me if she could ask him.


Possible, but unlikely.



nogutsnoglory said:


> Another issue is that she mentioned he remarked to her that "She and I seem to have a good thing going." she thought I would be happy to hear that, but I asked her in what context was he asking you this, What was the conversation that led to this comment? She replied with *"I don't remember"* this is always her response when the answer is not something she feels I want to hear.


That's the favorite line for women caught in affairs. I'm not saying she is, just sayin'.



nogutsnoglory said:


> She has a history of answering questions with half truths or lies to avoid what in her mind is unnecessary confrontation.
> I feel like he said that because he is fishing for a favorable response.


Tell her you are uncomfortable and get a bad vibe from him. Then drop it completely and continue your own private NSA operation.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

The tiger doesn't associate with a steak because he just enjoys the company of steak.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

By the way, the reason she was looking at pics of his pool was because the pool was in the background when he was showing her his skinny dipping shots on his phone. 

She "doesn't remember" that part.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

I agree with those who think you should be concerned. And I agree with those who think you should be low key. Nothing screams affair yet. I guess your marriage is on terror alert yellow. So, you do need to do some c0ck blocking on this guy. But you don't need to go all caveman yet.

I would do just as you have. No pool dates because it's not appropriate. Not because there's something going on, or because she wants something to happen. It's just not appropriate. It makes you uncomfortable.

And then, monitor. Look for red flags. Hopefully, you will have headed off any potential action.

Good luck.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Mach...I hate to do it, but I'm curious what study you are citing for your adultery career listing. I ask because if I'm giving a list of a "current breakdown" I'd want to know the source cited. I mean, where is "Pilot" on that list. Cuz, I can tell ya - having been a professional pilot for a decade, it was rare when you found a guy NOT banging chicks in every FBO.


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## firefly789 (Apr 9, 2013)

This scenario is bad.

I'm a teacher. I've seen 3 affairs just at my school between married woman and married men teachers who both worked at my school. Also, one parking lot kiss that got nipped in the bud by the man's wife who also worked at my school. (I have been teaching a long time.)

Giving a peer cologne as a gift. Yuk, too personal for the workplace. Taking a call at home at dinnertime. No, no, no. Seeing his pool in a pic. Why is she looking at his pictures? What else was in the pic? Him posing in his swimming trunks showing off his abs?

Summer is just starting. Your wife is giving off lots of hints. I would nip this in the bud right now. Let her know this is not OK. In fact, tell her no contact over the summer, and then check. If she does contact him, ask her to change schools where she works. I mean really, don't considerate and committed spouses think about how the other feels. Just let her know that you do not want her to be friends with him. (Also, Not Just Friends book is a good idea.) Then monitor, monitor, monitor and raise the stakes to the job change if she does contact him. This is not being controlling. This is looking out for your marriage. Stop apologizing for your concerns and actions.

With her hints, at least you have been forewarned.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Low level. Do not accuse. No to the pool. you are low level looking.

She IS interested even if subconsciously. Good point. Why the eff was she looking at his pics.

*IF* you get a hard red flag. Let me know. I am resident VAR nerd. PM ME! "I need VAR info fast" Be prepared to act that day or next.


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> Mach...I hate to do it, but I'm curious what study you are citing for your adultery career listing. I ask because if I'm giving a list of a "current breakdown" I'd want to know the source cited. I mean, where is "Pilot" on that list. Cuz, I can tell ya - having been a professional pilot for a decade, it was rare when you found a guy NOT banging chicks in every FBO.


Last source I read it had SAHMs to husbands who worked away (military, mining, fishing) at the top, then barmaids, then psychologists. *shrug*


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## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

No, no, no. I wonder what would make her think this was a good idea? Why was she looking at pics on his phone? Hmmmm...


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> Mach...I hate to do it, but I'm curious what study you are citing for your adultery career listing. I ask because if I'm giving a list of a "current breakdown" I'd want to know the source cited. I mean, where is "Pilot" on that list. Cuz, I can tell ya - having been a professional pilot for a decade, it was rare when you found a guy NOT banging chicks in every FBO.


These aren't percentages, they're merely raw totals of female occupations gleaned from everyone's favorite married but dating website. There just aren't enough female pilots who are married to men around to make a difference. However, teacher, nurse, and real estate agents have been notorious for affairs since time began. Once again, that's probably because these are professions with a very high number of women involved. Nursing and primary school teaching have always been considered female occupations and secondary school and real estate have been female dominated since 1970, maybe sooner.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Two types of female pilots: Those who do and those who will. At least that was the attitude. Might not have been the truth or reality, but it was definitely the attitude that I witnessed. The **** ones were pretty damn bad!


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

scatty said:


> No, no, no. I wonder what would make her think this was a good idea? Why was she looking at pics on his phone? Hmmmm...


That's where his shirtless photos were.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> Two types of female pilots: Those who do and those who will. At least that was the attitude. Might not have been the truth or reality, but it was definitely the attitude that I witnessed. The **** ones were pretty damn bad!


Yeah, my niece is a flyboy for the AF. My kids hear all her **** dodging stories. My wife also worked very briefly as a stewardess (she wanted to be called "flight attendant" and I said "why? you're not a gay guy"). A red flag(s) went up and I suggested she quit.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> Cuz, I can tell ya - having been a professional pilot for a decade, it was rare when you found a guy NOT banging chicks in every FBO.


I have had some exposure to the commercial airline world via my wife's very short career and a couple in our neighborhood where the H is a major airline pilot. I found out they had an arrangement when the W stuck her tongue down my throat as soon as I walked into her house for a Christmas party. Guess what they wanted to do.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> I have had some exposure to the commercial airline world via my wife's very short career and a couple in our neighborhood where the H is a major airline pilot. I found out they had an arrangement when the W stuck her tongue down my throat as soon as I walked into her house for a Christmas party. Guess what they wanted to do.


Airlines and private jet pilots jive together in that most of us don't want to grow up. It's simple as that. I can call it on myself. F-ck, man, I got paid to fly to France, Costa Rica, every island in the Caribbean and most places in between. Truthfully, I earned my money during sh-t weather for takeoff and landing.

Airlines have stewardesses. It's always been that way and always will be. Private jets have FBO girls...cute girls behind the counter at the airport where we arrive at a private gate. I would say at least 90% of the chicks are looking at the money. 100% of the guys are looking at the ass.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

This particular guy isn't the issue. It's her boundaries. Even if you get her away from this guy, her poor boundaries will still exist. She will work with many men and she needs to be able to not engage this type of behavior.

You need to be strong, firm and resolved that this type of behavior is not acceptable. You need to shake up her mental state so that she changes her belief system at a fundamental level. She needs to know that she shouldn't be interacting with this guy, or any guy, in this manner.

Don't be afraid that you'll make her upset. You MUST make her upset or else she won't really change.


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## firefly789 (Apr 9, 2013)

Machiavelli said:


> Idle minds with a full summer on their hands. In the hierarchy of adulteresses, here is the current breakdown:
> 
> 
> #1.Teachers
> ...


This sounds about right. What do all these have in common? Lots of autonomy at their jobs. 

Teachers have a principal over them, but they're in their own room, work after school in their own room, have time to chat it up with others in the lounge or another room, or leave work earlier than most other working people. Lots of room to cheat if they want.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

I spoke to her. She hates that I feel this way. I explained to her it is less of a distrust in her then in him. She is naïve and does not see others as predators, the rest of us know the truth. I explained to her that she has to set clear boundaries going forward and in doing that she will not hear from me about these types of issues. She said it is innocent conversation. I explained that he is not a friend ours, he is a coworker and if you tell him about us, you are validating him and allowing him to feel as though he is now on the inside. I will not stand for others to be on the inside, so it stops.
She apologized and realized it was a mistake. She also explained that his community pool is designed specifically for kids with slides etc.. and she knew our kids would enjoy it. I made her understand I don't care if they are handing out free money, if I am not invited, you are not going.. she understood.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Now it's time for the light surveillance and make sure you keep a list hidden somewhere no one will ever find it, but you. 

By the way, make sure you can look at her email, facebook, phone records, etc. as described above. Do not get caught. Do it and make note of any issues. 

Set more boundaries as needed. A book suggestion: Boundaries in Marriage by Henry Cloud, John Townsend

Don't forget the book and associations: His Needs, Her Needs

And for a good measure look up: Married Man Sex Life Primer


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> Now it's time for the light surveillance and make sure you keep a list hidden somewhere no one will ever find it, but you.
> 
> By the way, make sure you can look at her email, facebook, phone records, etc. as described above. Do not get caught. Do it and make note of any issues.
> 
> ...


 I appreciate the insight. Our sex life is great and our marriage is strong. She just allows people to get close to her in ways I am not comfortable. She has done this with girlfriends as well. I called one relationship she had with a girlfriend her emotional affair. They talked to one another but not to their respective spouses about issues they had and through snooping I was able to uncover it and deal with both of them. Since then, her friend has moved out from her husband and my wife and I have made immense improvements. This one area bothers me though as I am constantly having to remind her that the way she sees things is not the norm, and unlike herself others have motives. She never has been that way and simply does not see it.
I let her know that if he texts you a simple "How is your summer going?" That it is his way of working himself in as he has no need to befriend a married woman, and unless I brought it to light she would have thought of it as innocent and started to text him. I explained that it is how it starts and unless she learns to put a stop to it, she is forcing my hand.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Hey, no problem. I would love to find someone who makes things better after stopping and repairing damage like that in a marriage. MMSL is not only about sex. It was not meant as a suggestions that you might have sexual issues. It is more about the manliness that you showed your wife by setting a boundary. It's just looked at from a man's perspective. Some think it is to learn how to manhandle a wife. It isn't. It's about becoming the best, most attractive man you can be, while setting and holding to your boundaries and not apologizing for them.


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## firefly789 (Apr 9, 2013)

Wow, your wife sounds very naive. Have you checked into the book Not Just Friends? I think your wife really needs to read this and to learn about some boundaries.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Unless she has some disability, not understanding that sending and receiving texts with another man in that fashion makes her look like she is fishing for another man. I don't get it either.

Edit: I hope you are still checking the phone bill. sheesh

You probably don't need this. I just thought I'd add it for reference. You can delete it when you delete your thread. There's a lot of good info here: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html


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## firefly789 (Apr 9, 2013)

nogutsnoglory said:


> He is married with kids and his wife is an exec at a large company.
> She says he never invited her. She saw pics of his pool on his phone and she asked me if she could ask him.
> Another issue is that she mentioned he remarked to her that "She and I seem to have a good thing going." she thought I would be happy to hear that, but I asked her in what context was he asking you this, What was the conversation that led to this comment? *She replied with "I don't remember" this is always her response when the answer is not something she feels I want to hear. She has a history of answering questions with half truths or lies to avoid what in her mind is unnecessary confrontation.*


I just had to come back and add, are you sure she is really that naive? She could just be very deceptive. I hope you monitor her cell phone, computer, etc. and don't just rug sweep. This should be a wake up call for you.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

firefly789 said:


> This sounds about right. What do all these have in common? Lots of autonomy at their jobs.
> 
> Teachers have a principal over them, but they're in their own room, work after school in their own room, have time to chat it up with others in the lounge or another room, or leave work earlier than most other working people. Lots of room to cheat if they want.


Principals and Asst. Principals have a really bad rep in our district. It seems like there is an an incident of adultery every year in this category. My wife is a principal and if her Teacher In Charge was not such a Beta. I would have to be turning garden hose on them I believe. The couple times I have met him I have had to alpha up and c*#k block him. He could take me out easily but he is a major puzzy.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

nogutsnoglory said:


> I spoke to her. She hates that I feel this way. I explained to her it is less of a distrust in her then in him. She is naïve and does not see others as predators, the rest of us know the truth. I explained to her that she has to set clear boundaries going forward and in doing that she will not hear from me about these types of issues. She said it is innocent conversation. I explained that he is not a friend ours, he is a coworker and if you tell him about us, you are validating him and allowing him to feel as though he is now on the inside. I will not stand for others to be on the inside, so it stops.
> She apologized and realized it was a mistake. She also explained that his community pool is designed specifically for kids with slides etc.. and she knew our kids would enjoy it. I made her understand I don't care if they are handing out free money, if I am not invited, you are not going.. she understood.


And at the end of the day she is glad you told her this!


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

I agree with the others on MMSLP. If you've never been exposed to all the current research into what causes women to lose attraction to the their H or LTBF and refocus on an OM, you need to read it.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

MMSLP and Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass for both of you as away to open her eyes


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Sounds like OP is man in charge. Keep up the low level stuff. Leave higher level stuff for harder red flags.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

had a long talk last night. I started to ask her that now that she understands what I do not see as acceptable behavior, I wanted her to think and tell me some examples of things I would not approve of. Well the one that stuck out is that he told her that his wife, who recently gave birth won't put out for him and he is feeling frustrated constantly, this was the same day he commented to my wife that things are going good at her home with me (fishing)
I made her realize he had no reason to talk this way if he was not looking for sex.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

How would his wife react if you told her the level of intimate details he is sharing with you wife?


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

Shaggy said:


> How would his wife react if you told her the level of intimate details he is sharing with you wife?


I asked her this as well. She allows herself to feel as though she is "one of the guys", always has, so she has no filter about what is acceptable for a married man to say to a married woman. She just thinks of it as him venting like any other person would. I showed her the difference and how he does not think this way, and therefore is not "just venting" but rather fishing for an affair. I also reminded her of how she felt about her body after our second child and how that impacted her sex drive at the time, and reminded her that his wife is going through that right now. So for him to be going around bad mouthing his sex life is classless.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

nogutsnoglory said:


> I asked her this as well. She allows herself to feel as though she is "one of the guys", always has, so she has no filter about what is acceptable for a married man to say to a married woman. She just thinks of it as him venting like any other person would. I showed her the difference and how he does not think this way, and therefore is not "just venting" but rather fishing for an affair. *I also reminded her of how she felt about her body after our second child and how that impacted her sex drive at the time, and reminded her that his wife is going through that right now. So for him to be going around bad mouthing his sex life is classless.*


Nice shot. :smthumbup:


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

Wish I could just accept that she sees this as innocent and understand. She stated she understands it was not, now that I showed her but at the time she just thought it was normal banter.
It has left me feeling rather insecure. I mean she is at work right now and he is there and I am here alone typing this. Wondering what is going on. Even though I do trust her, I just want to go ring his neck. Of course I wont, as I am not a juvenile, but the confusion and anger has me by the throat today.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Bud, you're not going to feel secure every day that they work in the same place together. I'm sorry to tell you that, but it's the reality. She should look for another job.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Weird. She understands now after you have spoken with her and explained it? She thought it was innocent before? What was her experience with relationships before you two were married? What was yours?

This is not to incite, but to help me understand. I think you did a fantastic job with what you did.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> Weird. She understands now after you have spoken with her and explained it? She thought it was innocent before? What was her experience with relationships before you two were married? What was yours?
> 
> This is not to incite, but to help me understand. I think you did a fantastic job with what you did.


She used to have mainly guy friends in her life. then when we got together she adopted my guy friends. After she began teaching she befriended a female and they got close as they share very similar lives. After our second child she felt very unattractive even though I tried to reassure she stayed distant sexually and eventually emotionally as well. She found it easier to confide in her friend so I was not communicated to as to how she felt for a long time. I became very uneasy and thought their may be another man. I started paying close attention and through snooping realized it was actually her relationship with her girlfriend that was being destructive. I talked to both of them about it and they recognized the problem and admitted they had accidentally stopped communicating with their spouses and only used one another for support. Well, her friend left her husband and has become a bot of a social butterfly, so my wife is not as close to her. Then recently she has gone back to being friends with guys at work as this is just easier for her. I trust her so had no issue with it until this recent guys name started to come out of her mouth more frequently and I do not know him, had never met him etc... As I inquired more about him and their discussions, I realized he was making a play to initiate an affair with my wife and I confronted her. She had thought he was just like any other guy friend and I had to lay out how guys work and the difference between a guy friend you have known for years, one we both know and trust, and a married coworker that is all of a sudden casually mentioning his sexual needs not being met and inquiring as to your happiness in our marriage. She thought it was just guy talk and I explained to her it would be if he was talking to a guy. He does not know you and because of that it is clearly not that at all.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

nogutsnoglory said:


> Wish I could just accept that she sees this as innocent and understand. She stated she understands it was not, now that I showed her but at the time she just thought it was normal banter.
> It has left me feeling rather insecure. I mean she is at work right now and he is there and I am here alone typing this. Wondering what is going on. Even though I do trust her, I just want to go ring his neck. Of course I wont, as I am not a juvenile, but the confusion and anger has me by the throat today.


This really pulled at me. I know exactly how you are feeling. My ex-wife spent a lot of time volunteering in the kids classrooms, and became close to one of my kids teachers. When the night time texts started, I asked her about it, and she said it was nothing. When they went out for coffee, I told her he was falling in love with her, and she said it was all innocent. In her mind, I believe it was. She was very naive. She is now my ex-wife, and has been dating him for almost a year.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

samyeagar said:


> This really pulled at me. I know exactly how you are feeling. My ex-wife spent a lot of time volunteering in the kids classrooms, and became close to one of my kids teachers. When the night time texts started, I asked her about it, and she said it was nothing. *When they went out for coffee, I told her he was falling in love with her, and she said it was all innocent.  In her mind, I believe it was. She was very naive. She is now my ex-wife, and has been dating him for almost a year.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't. I don't believe that in her mind she thought it was innocent. I think she knew there were feelings there, allowed them to continue to develop, and continued to focus on them even though you were telling her how it made you feel. I bet she knew exactly how the guy felt, and I bet she liked it, and that excited her....and now she is dating the guy.

I think she will never admit that to you.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

To the more knowledgable TAMers: 

What if the OP goes to the co-worker's wife and tells her all he knows about their spouses conversations and how it makes him uncomfortable? That he's talked to his wife about how inappropriate it is, etc.? OPs wife will be pissed for bit but it will take this guy's focus off the OPs wife and back on his own marriage.

I didn't know if this is a weak move or a strong move, (or a totally wrong move). I guess to me it would be protecting my marriage to nip this thing in the bud. I guess I would rather overreact than the opposite.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

soccermom2three said:


> To the more knowledgable TAMers:
> 
> What if the OP goes to the co-worker's wife and tells her all he knows about their spouses conversations and how it makes him uncomfortable? That he's talked to his wife about how inappropriate it is, etc.? OPs wife will be pissed for bit but it will take this guy's focus off the OPs wife and back on his own marriage.
> 
> I didn't know if this is a weak move or a strong move, (or a totally wrong move). I guess to me it would be protecting my marriage to nip this thing in the bud. I guess I would rather overreact than the opposite.


I have pondered this. Problem is lack of physical proof and his possible ability to manipulate his wifes thoughts. He will simply deflect and deny. The real issue is my wife and her inability to respect marriage boundaries. This guy means nothing to her, and is not an immediate threat of any kind. Our marriage today is a solid marriage. As we all understand that marriages will have rough periods the boundaries should always be in place so that we do not go looking or accepting validation in the form of emotional or physical connection with someone that is not our spouse. It is always easier to turn a cheek to something difficult and take the easy route and infedility although dangerous and destructive is typically thought of as the easy route to take when a marriage is rocky.
I agree I can go to her and make him at minimum move on to some other poor guys wife but that won't stop my wife from allowing the next nice guy at work to move into his place. She needs to learn to keep people at arms length and not allow for intimate relationships to form outside of our marriage. Her friendships should strengthen us not hurt us.


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## BrockLanders (Jul 23, 2012)

She doesn't come home smelling like English Leather, does she?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fledgling (Feb 3, 2013)

nogutsnoglory said:


> Wish I could just accept that she sees this as innocent and understand. She stated she understands it was not, now that I showed her but at the time she just thought it was normal banter.
> It has left me feeling rather insecure. I mean she is at work right now and he is there and I am here alone typing this. Wondering what is going on.* Even though I do trust her, I just want to go ring his neck.* Of course I wont, as I am not a juvenile, but the confusion and anger has me by the throat today.


May I suggest that you be honest with yourself? You do _not_ trust her and, you know what, that's okay. You think you are battling your own insecurity but you have reason to feel insecure. You don't want to push her away by prying or putting excessive demands on her --- in other words you don't want to be labeled controlling or nagging. You are fighting a battle that hasn't even happened yet! 

As to your wife's OSF and the protestations of innocence...that's how all emotional affairs start...with the supposed "innocent" sharing of personal information. The reality of it is that it's never innocent. People involved in the beginnings of EAs are in _denial_. Her original state of denial is what you are reacting to. If she can so clearly see her transgression now that you pointed it out, means that she was fully capable of seeing them without your input. She just didn't want to. That is what you are reacting to --- the underlying reason why she wouldn't enforce the implicit and obvious boundaries she has in her relationship with you. You can bet if the shoe was on the other foot and it was you committing these kinds of transgressions she would recognize them awful quickly! A better word to describe what she is doing is "unintentional". She's not actively _trying_ to develop a relationship with this other man but she is apparently developing feelings for him through these conversations and is in denial about the connection they are forging. You want to ring _his_ neck because you don't want to put any blame on her.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

:iagree:


Fledgling said:


> May I suggest that you be honest with yourself? You do _not_ trust her and, you know what, that's okay. You think you are battling your own insecurity but you have reason to feel insecure. You don't want to push her away by prying or putting excessive demands on her --- in other words you don't want to be labeled controlling or nagging. You are fighting a battle that hasn't even happened yet!
> 
> As to your wife's OSF and the protestations of innocence...that's how all emotional affairs start...with the supposed "innocent" sharing of personal information. The reality of it is that it's never innocent. People involved in the beginnings of EAs are in _denial_. Her original state of denial is what you are reacting to. If she can so clearly see her transgression now that you pointed it out, means that she was fully capable of seeing them without your input. She just didn't want to. That is what you are reacting to --- the underlying reason why she wouldn't enforce the implicit and obvious boundaries she has in her relationship with you. You can bet if the shoe was on the other foot and it was you committing these kinds of transgressions she would recognize them awful quickly! A better word to describe what she is doing is "unintentional". She's not actively _trying_ to develop a relationship with this other man but she is apparently developing feelings for him through these conversations and is in denial about the connection they are forging. You want to ring _his_ neck because you don't want to put any blame on her.


I do appreciate the response and understand how what I wrote sounds. I do have anger toward any man willing to disrespect an unknowing husband and make a play for his wife's attention. I consider it very disrespectful and would love to not have to worry about consequence and take care of him for thinking he can enter my life in this manner. 
To say I do not trust my wife is actually inaccurate, as I have mentioned prior we do have a very loving relationship, but I am also very aware that most affairs are not sought out originally but become an easy solution to having needs met. I would of course be devastated to be proven wrong but to this day I can say with confidence that my wife and I have been faithful to one another. My issue is her lack of boundaries and allowing others to get close to her. She does this with perfect strangers, always has. Of course most of the time it has not hurt her or us, but it always has me keeping an eye out for a predatory male, and she is aware that I feel he is one of these types of people. I understand that all marriages ebb and flow and also understand that a healthy marriage is a constant work in progress. She feels the same. Her lack of ability to adhere to boundaries in our relationship is not specific to this man or any specific gender, or type of person. She is always wanting to please everyone (hold the comments) and this need to please makes her nearly incapable of telling someone that they are being inappropriate or that she is uncomfortable, in fact she simply ignores the feeling and feels she is wrong for feeling that way.
She is now going to a therapist to deal with this and it seems as though the need to please is generated by shame she feels from her childhood. If you have not read about shame and its affects on people, I highly recommend it to all. I imagine we all know someone like this. 
I stand by her as she is my wife and I am happy to do it, in return I ask she continue to seek some help so that she can learn to be more in charge of future relationships that present themselves to her. Hope this makes sense. Thanks for the response, I do agree with some of it certainly.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Weird. This thread made me feel good. Well done.


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## Fledgling (Feb 3, 2013)

nogutsnoglory said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I do appreciate the response and understand how what I wrote sounds. I do have anger toward any man willing to disrespect an unknowing husband and make a play for his wife's attention. I consider it very disrespectful and would love to not have to worry about consequence and take care of him for thinking he can enter my life in this manner.
> To say I do not trust my wife is actually inaccurate, as I have mentioned prior we do have a very loving relationship, but I am also very aware that most affairs are not sought out originally but become an easy solution to having needs met. I would of course be devastated to be proven wrong but to this day I can say with confidence that my wife and I have been faithful to one another. My issue is her lack of boundaries and allowing others to get close to her. She does this with perfect strangers, always has. Of course most of the time it has not hurt her or us, but it always has me keeping an eye out for a predatory male, and she is aware that I feel he is one of these types of people. I understand that all marriages ebb and flow and also understand that a healthy marriage is a constant work in progress. She feels the same. Her lack of ability to adhere to boundaries in our relationship is not specific to this man or any specific gender, or type of person. She is always wanting to please everyone (hold the comments) and this need to please makes her nearly incapable of telling someone that they are being inappropriate or that she is uncomfortable, in fact she simply ignores the feeling and feels she is wrong for feeling that way.
> ...


Sure there are plenty of predatory men out there. And there are men who are like your wife who are in serious denial about their marriage and about the emotional affairs they forge with other women. This guy is married also right? Why is he predatory but your wife is not? What do you think his wife would think about yours? Would his wife think yours was predatory? Your wife is taking away time and intimacy from their marriage. What would his wife think about that? It's easy to put a lot of blame on the OM/OW in situations like these but it's not productive.

I also feel (sorry to be so blunt) that you are calling your wife a people pleaser because it is easier for you to believe this than the truth. The "pleasing people" thing also directly contradicts your earlier statements that she thought things were innocent. A people pleaser does things despite being uncomfortable. She wasn't uncomfortable. She thought that was just the way guys were. At least that is what she told you. This smacks of naivete rather than an inability to say no. Would you simply say that she is naive? How many times are you willing to go through this scenario before she sees and corrects this apparent pattern to her behaviour?

You have admitted to her inability to set clear boundaries. I have discovered that in order to set clear boundaries you have to have boundaries to enforce. I believe you when you say that neither of you has cheated and that you are open with one another, to a degree, but I disagree that your marriage is "solid". There is an ebb and flow to marriage but how far it ebbs and flows is able to be controlled. 

As I said I believe that you and your wife love each other. Maybe this man is not cause for concern (although imho he is) but if the pattern does not change eventually an affair will erupt...


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## Thehusband2 (Aug 25, 2011)

nogutsnoglory
my wife is the same way...makes friends and is friendly

there was guy at the school where she used to work that thought she was hot and was friends with her on fb.

i snooped and found this guy saying hi to her and sometimes inquiring about how she is, whether she is happy etc... even asking her to come see his shows (acting school), or to volunteer with his organization ha

she thought it was innocent...i thought yeah right

so i surveyed this then it became more regular and longer convo...never anything negative said by her but he did comment a couple times about her being pretty, asking if shes happy etc... to which she went onto next topic ...

i told her to handle this! she thought he was a friend and was almost wanting to volunteer with him! he is christian afterall is part of the defence!

sure enough one day he told her he is attracted to her...so much for friendship huh

she told him he is confused and put a stop to it and nailed when i sent him a somewhat tough sounding facebook message! and blocked him on wifes facebook

was it innocent or was it unintentionally opening herself up...id like to think innocent...but


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## Thehusband2 (Aug 25, 2011)

you could send him a stern message in person...it is enough that he told your wife his sexual issues - thats crossing boundaries


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

Fledgling said:


> Sure there are plenty of predatory men out there. And there are men who are like your wife who are in serious denial about their marriage and about the emotional affairs they forge with other women. This guy is married also right? Why is he predatory but your wife is not? What do you think his wife would think about yours? Would his wife think yours was predatory? Your wife is taking away time and intimacy from their marriage. What would his wife think about that? It's easy to put a lot of blame on the OM/OW in situations like these but it's not productive.
> 
> I also feel (sorry to be so blunt) that you are calling your wife a people pleaser because it is easier for you to believe this than the truth. The "pleasing people" thing also directly contradicts your earlier statements that she thought things were innocent. A people pleaser does things despite being uncomfortable. She wasn't uncomfortable. She thought that was just the way guys were. At least that is what she told you. This smacks of naivete rather than an inability to say no. Would you simply say that she is naive? How many times are you willing to go through this scenario before she sees and corrects this apparent pattern to her behaviour?
> 
> ...


I appreciate you trying to help but you come across as someone who thinks there are no possibilities other than the deceit you choose to see. In real life people have trouble identifying dangerous "slippery slope" situations. For myself and clearly for you these scenarios are easily identifiable for others things are not as easy. He is the predator because of the definition of the word. It's that simple. He came to her, he tried to get her to say something he could prey on. She thought he was just talking about life (wife,kids etc...) to her a girlfriend would talk about sexual frustration at home so a guy doing it is no different. You and I immediately see a difference but her brain does not think of others as predators. I understand the other man needs to be monitored but I'm not worried she would cheat with him. It's simple as this. I trust she is in love with me. I know I take care of her emotionally and physically. I was angered though as she is culpable for not being more cautious and I addressed that with her and if i see him continuing to try with her I will deal with him. . I feel it is much more healthy to be constructive with her and treat this as something to learn from. It has helped to open her eyes a bit to what he was trying to do, so I feel at least as it pertains to my wife, I am right. 
I am from the school of thought that we are in life's journey together. If at every turn I act like she is to blame for things then I would eventually help send her to him or someone else. My respect for her and honesty about how I feel is what she needed to hear. It has helped us and made our bond stronger. And I appreciate your attempt to breakdown what a people pleaser is but I will have to assume my 20 years of living with one makes me the expert on that topic. You have to have faith in love, cautious at times, but if you truly are a good spouse that gives as much or more than you receive then you are in the minority of married people. Being controlling will only prove to be a temporary solution.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

NGNG

VERY well played. Overall this thread was a welcome break from the usual train wrecks!

DONT bring her here but print my lower signature on how players work. THEN print the following below it. Same idea.

Findingmyway was a player, I don't know if he comes on here much now, but he did leave a point of view thread although I can't find it. He posted something similar to me, here it is.:
***********************************************

My perspective- as a serial cheat. Before I start, I'm no GQ model look alike and I'm not wealthy.

For me, it was always about extra sex. The thrill of the chase and ego boost was a plus, but I just wanted more sex than my wife did. I always loved my wife and certainly never ever wanted to leave her or lose her. Especially not over someone else's wayward wife.

I had a simple method. I used it because it worked. I targeted married women. I figured they were safer for several important reasons.
1- Less likely to be sleeping around with random guys (STDs).
2- Less likely to pull the crazy girlfriend BS and call my wife.
3- In case of an unwanted pregnancy, I had a built in schmuck to pay the tab and would have claimed to have had a vasectomy.

The most important part of being a player is to hide it. I started with shy looks making certain I'd get caught and then doing my best to look embarrassed. If she started to come around more or dress sexier then I'd try a safe compliment. If she called me on my BS (yes, it happened) I simply acted highly offended. After all, I'm a married family man. That usually got me an apology. A few really smart ones just avoided me altogether.

If she accepted the compliment, I knew I had a chance. I never ever wasted time with someone that I didn't want to bed. If the compliment was successful, I simply followed with more as time permitted and just let things develop. Who knew where it would go? When she would speak with me about her frustrations with her husband (they always complained about their husband) I used that to my advantage. If they complained that he didn't do enough with the kids, I was dad of the year. If he didn't help out around the house, I did everything at home so my wife didn't have to. Yes, it was complete BS, but so what. My job was to make them feel special, pretty and needed and to paint the fantasy. After all, my goal was not conversation or friendship. I wanted to score.

Once things progressed and I had to keep it intense unless it was simply a once and done kind of thing. I would do that by pushing her boundaries for sex. Anal, public hook-up whatever. Keep in mind, I'm in it for the sex so I tried for everything I liked and heard more than once statements like... I never even let my husband do that. That was usually with anal, but sometimes public hook-ups also.

I certainly didn't want to be paying for hotel rooms out my pocket. If she wanted to pay, that was fine. Otherwise, we could hook-up anywhere, it didn't matter to me.

I always advised them to keep the secret between us, because it was so special. Actually, I didn't want to get busted. If they got busted, and some did. That was their tough crap to deal with. I certainly never vowed to love/honor/cherish them.

As I look back, I'm stunned at how easy it was and how many fell for my crap. I had some that would try to pull away and I'd feed them the star crossed lovers BS, you know... kept apart by the cruel hand of fate. That worked like magic to seal the deal. I also used things like I think my wife may have cheated on me. Then I'd work in how I got tested for STDs and it was clear and somehow manage to mention my vasectomy (never had one). Understand? I'm safe, you won't catch anything if you sleep with me and I won't get you pregnant. That was the message.

The one thing that sent me running was the fear of getting caught and sometimes I just wanted a quick bang and wasn't in it for a couple of months of an affair. I'm still also amazed by how many didn't see through my crap either. They didn't have to deal with the day to day stresses that adults face with me (finances, mortgages, car payments, child care, time commitments, etc.). With me, it was just fun and sex. The poor bastard at home didn't have a chance once the play was in motion. It also helped me to see him as a douche-bag when his wife whined about him for whatever reason.

I work with a woman that has lost everything over an affair with me. The house, husband, family, etc. It's difficult to see. She hates me now, but I never vowed anything to her or forced her to do anything. That's her tough crap. Her kids are in therapy, their grades tanked and she's struggling financially and the kids blame her, etc. Honestly, I wish she'd quit so I didn't have to see her every freaking day.


I do know a few like me that I consider even worse. They brag and laugh about getting wayward wives to do things and try to get email or text proof to show off. It's pretty easy, just tell her how much he liked doing X with her last night and let her respond. Then they had proof to brag about and trade notes. I didn't do that. I just wanted the sex and avoided the women they talked about. I liked to find the ones who would seem to be the last to ever do anything like this. Goes back to my 3 reasons.

I never flirted with a married woman unless I wanted in her pants. Plain and simple, you do have to hide it so they don't see it coming, but it's really that basic. Other players use different methods, but we all use what works and modify sometimes if we're not progressing to try a different angle. Not all women are the same, and sometimes deviations are required if she'll let you in her pants.

It was never about love, just sex. I sold the fantasy, yes. But that is all it ever was. A fair trade. They were adults and quite frankly should have known better. Am I a predator, I certainly never thought so and I certainly never thought about what would happen to them when we were done. Yes, all my affairs ended. Most stayed married to their H they *****ed about and screwed around on. Therefore, he must not have been that bad. People just get caught up with unrealistic expectations on life I think. For goodness sake, Prince charming is only charming because he wants a blow job.

Before I close, I'll say this as well. An engaged woman would have worked for me also, but I never found one that would go for me. Also, newly married women are much harder to get. I had the best luck with women who had been married for at least several years, throw a kid or two in the mix and they were usually more susceptible to being chased.

It was a fair trade. Attention and compliments for sex. 

Credit original poster which of course I didnt keep but it was NOT me.

GIVE them to her. Some guys are nice. The problem is that about ?half? the ones that befriend women are not.

So after she reads both run a hypothical situation on her. Get a coin out. Tell her half the "You see the methods players use to seduce married women. Half the "nice guys" are really players. heads he is nice tails he is really trying to sleep with you.

You meet a guy next week who is nice to you. Flip coin.
You meet a guy in 5 weeks who is nice to you. Flip coin.
It wont take too long to get tails.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I'd like your post a thousand times if I could, weightlifter. Thank you.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

nogutsnoglory said:


> I have pondered this. Problem is lack of physical proof and his possible ability to manipulate his wifes thoughts. He will simply deflect and deny. The real issue is my wife and her inability to respect marriage boundaries. This guy means nothing to her, and is not an immediate threat of any kind. Our marriage today is a solid marriage. As we all understand that marriages will have rough periods the boundaries should always be in place so that we do not go looking or accepting validation in the form of emotional or physical connection with someone that is not our spouse. It is always easier to turn a cheek to something difficult and take the easy route and infedility although dangerous and destructive is typically thought of as the easy route to take when a marriage is rocky.
> I agree I can go to her and make him at minimum move on to some other poor guys wife but that won't stop my wife from allowing the next nice guy at work to move into his place. She needs to learn to keep people at arms length and not allow for intimate relationships to form outside of our marriage. Her friendships should strengthen us not hurt us.


I think a private conversation between you and this guy is in order. If it were me, I'd just let him know that you what he is up to and if he doesn't stop, it's going to get ugly. Don't threaten him, just let him know you're on to him. If you don't like the answer, then the next stop is his wife.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

The Middleman said:


> I think a private conversation between you and this guy is in order. If it were me, I'd just let him know that you what he is up to and if he doesn't stop, it's going to get ugly. Don't threaten him, just let him know you're on to him. If you don't like the answer, then the next stop is his wife.


I agree (if I see or hear anything further demonstrating my wife has not made boundaries clear) I will do just that. I have given her this opportunity in an attempt to show her my trust and allow her to handle this in a manner that will not cause any discomfort in her work environment.
This is about her choices in life, not mine. If she chooses to establish boundaries and protect our union than, I am ok with that conclusion. Guys like him are a dime a dozen, and yes I can confront him, but this will only cause him to go more underground with future advances, and it will have no bearing on the next lizard in line that tries to get on my wife. This is why empowering her to make more clear relationship boundaries is more important than a confrontation between me and the other man.


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## Busy Accountant (Mar 15, 2013)

OP - I can be rather passive/agressive when I'm in a mood. And this situation puts me in a mood.

I would handle this a little differently.

I see you and OM standing side by side, each with a beer in your hand. You lean into him and say something along the lines of...

"I hear from my wife that you are having sexual issues at home. Sucks for you bro. It seems that you think you have a confidante in my wife, but here's the deal. She and I share no secrets, so whatever you think you are telling her in secret, you are telling me. I have no inclination to keep your secrets. If you want your sexual problems all over town, continue to confide in my wife. If not, I suggest you find a way to keep your comments and firtations to yourself. Capiche?"

Then walk away before he has a chance to respond.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

nogutsnoglory said:


> My wife and I went through some relationship issues a few months back. We communicated well through it, got to the bottom of it, and have been working together to fix it.
> Things with us have been great, but all of a sudden I am hearing her mention a guy from work more. I found out for Secret Santa last year she bought him cologne. He now refers to himself as English Leather when he talks to her. I let her know I thought cologne was a bit too personal a gift for a male coworker but I understood that she just thought it to be a funny gift, after all it is English Leather. *The next day after this conversation, she asks if it was ok if over the summer she takes our kids over to his place to use their pool. They are both teachers with summers off.* I explained to her that I would not be thrilled at work all day knowing my wife is hanging out with another man in her bathing suit all day. I asked her if she would be happy with me doing the same and she says she understands. The next day, this guy calls her at home during the dinner hour to ask her advice on something.
> I don't want to come off as controlling, but this is starting to seem as though he is trying to start moving in on my wife.
> any thoughts?


Have not read the rest of the thread ... yet.

So this is a red flag. Sorry this is not appropriate. Sg\he should never have even asked.

But since she did, I would have been even more firm. I would have followe dup and told her that this was not acceptable to me.

I think you need to do his needs her needs together and do the boundary setting.

I think this guy should be off limits for the summer for sure. i.e. No contact. No lunches. No coffee. No drinks. Np play dates. Nadda. If she cannot give him up for the summer she needs to change schools.

Good luck.

UPDATE: Hmmmm. Monitor the attempts at connecting. She needs better boundaries period. She may need to change jobs, but indeed she will find another guy there unless she shores things up a bit.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

Entropy3000 said:


> Have not read the rest of the thread ... yet.
> 
> So this is a red flag. Sorry this is not appropriate. Sge should never have even asked.
> 
> ...


I will monitor and take matters into my own hands should I feel the need. I am hopeful her actions speak as loudly as her words do going forward. It is a test we all have to take in marriage. I trust she will pass the test, but I can't take it for her.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

Busy Accountant said:


> OP - I can be rather passive/agressive when I'm in a mood. And this situation puts me in a mood.
> 
> I would handle this a little differently.
> 
> ...


Then what I have told her about handling it the right way herself and me trusting her to do that would prove untruthful. He can then twist the encounter and take it to her with his version and also spread anything he wishes around the office about my wife or myself. If I have to deal with him it will not be a secret to anyone and it will be very direct. My wife will know full well what happened and most likely I would have her there to witness it. I would also have his wife in on the situation at this point as well. I won't play around if I am to be forced to deal with this on her behalf.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

OP,
I do think a transfer is in order. I am assuming that it is the end of the school year where you are at. Teachers are retiring, getting promoted and moving to new positions. Your wife should be looking for a new school to teach at where she can use the new boundaries without old distractions.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

RClawson said:


> OP,
> I do think a transfer is in order. I am assuming that it is the end of the school year where you are at. Teachers are retiring, getting promoted and moving to new positions. Your wife should be looking for a new school to teach at where she can use the new boundaries without old distractions.


She is not connected to this man. If he had not pursued her attention, it would have been a non-issue. She has no feelings of attraction physical or emotional to him and I don't see the point other than to try and avoid something that doesn't exist.
Distractions would be in play if she had a connection to him other than co-worker. 
I think that switching jobs would make things worse honestly. I have to trust her, and she needs to feel trusted. Asking her to switch jobs really just is feeding insecurity and tells her I do not trust the words she has spoken to me. I won't do that. Her real issue is boundaries and she is aware of that and has started to receive therapy to deal with it. Appears to be shame based and the need for acceptance that is causing her to not draw defined lines in her different relationships. Her awareness of this is key moving forward and she has pledged to bean open book for me to come to my own conclusions moving forward. If any of this proves to be false than I will change the plan.


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## youkiddingme (Jul 30, 2012)

I think you have been given lots of advice. But it seems you know more than everyone else. So, in the end, when your wife has an affair....Keep this in mind. You helped her do it. You know so much, you ignored good solid advice, you helped her cheat on you.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

youkiddingme said:


> I think you have been given lots of advice. But it seems you know more than everyone else. So, in the end, when your wife has an affair....Keep this in mind. You helped her do it. You know so much, you ignored good solid advice, you helped her cheat on you.


I have agreed with some, disagreed with others. These forums are sounding boards. I, of course should know more about this, I know the full background, I have been with this woman for 20 years . Some advice certainly has been applicable. Trust this though, if she has an affair it won't be due to a lack of effort from me, and I won't take every piece of advice given, simply because some advice is given by those with an IQ similar to yours
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Iver (Mar 8, 2013)

nogutsnoglory said:


> I have agreed with some, disagreed with others. These forums are sounding boards. I, of course should know more about this, I know the full background, I have been with this woman for 20 years . Some advice certainly has been applicable. Trust this though, if she has an affair it won't be due to a lack of effort from me, and I won't take every piece of advice given, simply because some advice is given by those with an IQ similar to yours
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I've read enough threads to know when someone is in denial. This isn't one of them.

Nogutsnoglory sounds like he's got this under control.


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## yellowstar (Jun 18, 2012)

Your situation sounds slightly similar to mine (although mine is even way more 'innocent' I think...but I am now learning to trust DH. It's more about him learning about boundaries because of this situation). Either way, good luck and let us know how things go because I'm curious  Feel free to read my past threads...


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

Iver said:


> I've read enough threads to know when someone is in denial. This isn't one of them.
> 
> Nogutsnoglory sounds like he's got this under control.


Thanks for the kind words.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

I hate it when people skim through threads then post nonsense that wouldn't make sense if you read the whole thing. That being said...

1 - The wife is not as naive as she wants to appear.

2 - Ladies: If you think you are "one of the guys", you are wrong. There is no single member of my "group of guys" that each and every one of the other members wants to bang.

K


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

Well, I wanted to take a minute to thank those of you that care about others enough to spend time reading their issues in these posts and do your best to help. I know it is hard to help with out all the information, but without hours of typing it would be impossible for all to be shared. As an update for my marriage, we are working on our issues daily, my wife has begun counseling for herself to deal with her past and get over the trauma that causes her to be a people pleaser and shy away from any form of confrontation. The people pleasing part of her personality is what causes her to let others into her life that she should not, or at least not to the extent of which she does.
It causes a lack of boundaries and due to the trauma she does not allow herself the self examination that is needed to see our mistakes, until they are pointed out by another (me) and then and only then does she look at how it seems and what impact that brings to our marriage, not to mention the slippery slopes it puts her on for the future. We are reading a couple of books together, one supplied by her therapist and one I brought to the table (thank you to whom ever mentioned Shirley Glass in their post). My wife loves me and I her, we are very committed to growing and learning together, and putting the boundaries in place to protect our marriage from slipping by either of us. Her eyes are much more open now. She just always felt she would never cheat so there is nothing to worry about. She now understands that feeling as though it can't happen to you is the first step in letting it happen in todays modern society. You have been support when I needed it, critics when I needed it, and friends with out knowing me. I thank you.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

NGNG Did you print out the how players work info and give it to her?

It is truly scary how simple seducing married women is.


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> NGNG Did you print out the how players work info and give it to her?
> 
> It is truly scary how simple seducing married women is.


I verbalized it to her, only because I have found what she hears tends to stick better. I can read her expressions etc... talking to her. Reading I don't know if she is skimming or actually taking in the information. I did go over with her all the stages of progression and the motivations of the other man and how he would play it out by using our shortcomings to his advantage.
She has a hard time believing in people being that way, but is becoming more aware every time I talk to her.
She is reading Not Just Friends By Shirley Glass right now. I gave it to her and she is getting more insight about the same type of stuff through the eyes of a Psychologist who dealt with cases of infidelity for 30 years. She completely understands why I was upset and is committed to changing her approach from now on.. All I can do is hope, trust and monitor. 
Thanks again for everything.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

NP. Its just so completely scary how easy it is.

If I were an evil person.  With what I know... Fortunately I have boundaries. 

PS. Thanks for being one of the few relatively good news stories. We get so few here.

Edit: Doesnt hurt you are a strong male. Some of the hyper betas I just want to shake... One guy let his wife go out of state to explore her feelings! If that was real...


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

nogutsnoglory said:


> I verbalized it to her, only because *I have found what she hears tends to stick better. I can read her expressions etc... talking to her. Reading I don't know if she is skimming or actually taking in the information.* I did go over with her all the stages of progression and the motivations of the other man and how he would play it out by using our shortcomings to his advantage.
> She has a hard time believing in people being that way, but is becoming more aware every time I talk to her.
> She is reading Not Just Friends By Shirley Glass right now. I gave it to her and she is getting more insight about the same type of stuff through the eyes of a Psychologist who dealt with cases of infidelity for 30 years. She completely understands why I was upset and is committed to changing her approach from now on.. All I can do is hope, trust and monitor.
> Thanks again for everything.


Isn't she a teacher? Give her the printout and have her do a lesson plan for it. See if she can develop it into a presentation she can give to high school girls on what to look out for. Who knows, she might pick up some extra money and status in the school system if she gets something like this approved.


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