# Duty sex



## Kput (3 mo ago)

My wife went from very hd to ld following childbirth which I am far from happy about.

I nearly always have to instigate now so following an afternoon session a couple of years ago I said to her "you don't seem to get much from sex anymore and she replied " I get my pleasure from seeing you happy and that makes me happy" I asked so not from sex itself she then realised where this was going and tried to backtrack a bit.

Tbh I felt patronised by her stance and very pi££ed about it 

Has anyone else been in this situation and felt the same?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Kput said:


> My wife went from very hd to ld following childbirth which I am far from happy about.
> 
> I nearly always have to instigate now so following an afternoon session a couple of years ago I said to her "you don't seem to get much from sex anymore and she replied " I get my pleasure from seeing you happy and that makes me happy" I asked so not from sex itself she then realised where this was going and tried to backtrack a bit.
> 
> ...


Yes, I've been there... I would say that, if she is involved in the act and seems to be enjoying it - no starfish - then it's fine. I know it won't be enough for you, so I'm not sure why you're posting this...


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## BoSlander (6 mo ago)

Kput said:


> My wife went from very hd to ld following childbirth which I am far from happy about.
> 
> I nearly always have to instigate now so following an afternoon session a couple of years ago I said to her "you don't seem to get much from sex anymore and she replied " I get my pleasure from seeing you happy and that makes me happy" I asked so not from sex itself she then realised where this was going and tried to backtrack a bit.
> 
> ...


I have. And it sucks.

I still remember the time when I was told that this was about to happen... 8-month pregnant XW and I are attending a class at the hospital my XW was going to give birth in and, out of the blue, the head nurse asks all women to leave the room. She then goes on to tell us what is about to happen to our wives, that we're most likely about to lose a wife and gain a mother, that the sex is going to take a nosedive at least in the short term and that her nest-building senses are about to go on overdrive, hence not to lash back.

Probably one of the realest moments in my life. Of course, we all sat there looking at each other like "WTF did we just hear?!" Felt kind of set up... many were insinuating "I wish I'd known about this before I got married" and the sort.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

IA Neither do I, just doing some paperwork this morning before hitting the road and feeling miffed for some reason and the conversation popped into my mind


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Kput said:


> IA Neither do I, just doing some paperwork this morning before hitting the road and feeling miffed for some reason and the conversation popped into my mind


It's a "natural" phase for some women, especially after giving birth and are in mummy mode. When they experience low libido, they are obviously worried, and it's good that your wife is putting her efforts into pleasing you when for her - probably - it's not a big deal any more. It's a sign of a good, caring wife. I know this is not what you want to hear, but it is what it is. Yes, it's a bit of a shock at the beginning, but if sex is still good and the frequency is good too, then you will have to re-adjust. It doesn't mean it will be like this forever. On the other hand, it could get worse - like in my case...


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## 342693 (Mar 2, 2020)

I get where you’re coming from and can imagine it hurts. But look on the bright side…she obviously loves you and wants to make you happy. Plenty of women refuse to have sex with their husbands because they no longer enjoy it. Have you tried pleasing her other ways sexually than intercourse?


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

That's the problem pre childbirth it was everything, anytime and almost anywhere. My wife was ultra HD.


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## Bulfrog1987 (Oct 8, 2021)

How long has it been since the baby was born? I had a C-section and was barely allow to heal before performing. Two weeks in he had to have sex. I to had far too much duty sex, but it was because I loved my husband and it wasn’t because I didn’t want to enjoy sex, but I didn’t matter. 

It was never about my pleasure. Here that doesn’t sound like the case though. Just wondering how much time has passed? It may never go back to as crazy as it was, yet there should be a point where she too can enjoy herself physically as well.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

12 years since the second child. Regular sex but very bland


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## Bulfrog1987 (Oct 8, 2021)

Kput said:


> 12 years since the second child. Regular sex but very bland


Oh! My. This may have to just be a serious sit down where you dot on the years prior and just tell her you miss the time before the kids and ask if she does and what can you do to help her get back there to some level? That’s hard to be in that place.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

are you with your wife to keep your finances and see your kids? You say nothing good about her. Ever. What’s your angle? Why not divorce?


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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

Regardless whether a wife has children or not, after a few years of marriage the passion for sex begins to decline.
It`s never going to be as fulfilling as when being newly weds and how it was during the first 2 to 3 years of marriage.
I can remember after being married for only a few months my wife and I went out for an evening.
When arriving home we were groping and kissing each other even before entering our home, then before closing the front door we were throwing off our clothes and straight into the bedroom.
Unfortunately those days are long gone, my wife would never do that now, all what`s left is fond memories.
Over the years sex between married couples does become mundane and if there are any long term married couples here who claim their sex lives are still as good as it was during the early days of their marriage, I`d love to know their secret.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

BoSlander said:


> I have. And it sucks.
> 
> I still remember the time when I was told that this was about to happen... 8-month pregnant XW and I are attending a class at the hospital my XW was going to give birth in and, out of the blue, the head nurse asks all women to leave the room. She then goes on to tell us what is about to happen to our wives, that we're most likely about to lose a wife and gain a mother, that the sex is going to take a nosedive at least in the short term and that her nest-building senses are about to go on overdrive, hence not to lash back.
> 
> Probably one of the realest moments in my life. Of course, we all sat there looking at each other like "WTF did we just hear?!" Felt kind of set up... many were insinuating "I wish I'd known about this before I got married" and the sort.


What?!

What a massive D move. Did the head nurse think that none of the husbands were going to tell their wives what was said to them once they came back into the room? Why have them leave?


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## Bulfrog1987 (Oct 8, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> What?!
> 
> What a massive D move. Did the head nurse think that none of the husbands were going to tell their wives what was said to them once they came back into the room? Why have them leave?


Actually I was thinking that was a good thing she did lol. Some wives would have been jumping on that train like yesssss. Lol idk though.


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## ArthurGPym (Jun 28, 2021)

You're a victim of the classic bait and switch. Sorry brother. 

How is your physical health? Have you taken care of yourself over the years? Are you the kind of man your wife would lust after?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Kput said:


> 12 years since the second child. Regular sex but very bland


Regular but happy/willing too but bland is better than very infrequent, complains about sex, and hurried.

See the difference? 
If clearly the former, you are at a better starting point to rebuild than you think.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

No two individuals are the same...A guy I know HATES his wife and trashes her every chance he can, but amazingly still has sex with her. Regularly....He sees it as she has a duty to him.,,,Just horrible on any level....Unimaginable...

While I give some props to the OP's wife for "taking one for the team", so to speak, I doubt I would participate in that type of arrangement if I was in the same shoes as the OP....I would always get the feeling that she didn't want it, so why force her to do it? I know she says it's ok, but I wouldn't be able to compartmentalize that type of thing...Id quit it, until I felt she had her drive interest back......or id bail out, unfortunately....

I don't know what other advice to give you, OP....I know a LOT of guys would be completely happy with your situation...You see a lot of it here as well..But as I stated, some won't feel the same about it...I wouldn't and judging by your feelings about it, it seems like you have a big issue with it as well...

I also may add that a lot of guys will tell you to put a gun to her head(not literally, of course) about this and basically tell her that if things don't change you will leave...I wouldn't do that...I may leave, but I would never put a gun to any womans head for sex...Never...

Best of luck...


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Bulfrog1987 said:


> Actually I was thinking that was a good thing she did lol. Some wives would have been jumping on that train like yesssss. Lol idk though.


That's sad though..... right?

If a wife jumped up and down and was like, "Yesssssss!!!! No more sex!!!!!"

That's like a wife saying, "Finally! I get everything I want. Money. Safety. Security. A home." and I don't have to have any more sex! I would feel like absolute trash if I was the husband to a wife that did that. 

Now - before the "fun crew" jumps on me, this has nothing to do with waiting for a woman's body to heal after giving birth! Absolutely, that is needed. I think any man making a move on his wife during healing is an asshole. Any man that is not helping out with the new born baby is an asshole.

But I would NEVER accept a woman going into 100% mommy mode. There is mommy time and then there is wife time. One side should never overtake the other. The children need care. Now it is time for the man and woman to be parents. Once the kids are asleep (and the mother has had the proper time to heal) then it is time for husband and wife time. 

Lastly, does this nurse think the women are stupid? Does she think they are children and can't handle listening to what she had to say?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Regular but happy/willing too but bland is better than very infrequent, complains about sex, and hurried.
> 
> See the difference?
> If clearly the former, you are at a better starting point to rebuild than you think.


QFT. 

Your wife cares about your happiness. That is something you can actually build upon. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

hamadryad said:


> I also may add that a lot of guys will tell you to put a gun to her head(not literally, of course) about this and basically tell her that if things don't change you will leave...I wouldn't do that...I may leave, but I would never put a gun to any womans head for sex...Never...


I told my exwife that I won't go back to a dead bedroom. I wouldn't return to that prison under any circumstances. Towards the end, I also no longer wanted sex with her because of what you said. she clearly didn't want to be there. Fine. 

A few weeks later we had the conversation of divorce. 

So far, I'd say that was definitely the way to go. Life has been slowly getting better for sure.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Kput said:


> My wife went from very hd to ld following childbirth which I am far from happy about.
> 
> I nearly always have to instigate now so following an afternoon session a couple of years ago I said to her "you don't seem to get much from sex anymore and she replied " I get my pleasure from seeing you happy and that makes me happy" I asked so not from sex itself she then realised where this was going and tried to backtrack a bit.
> 
> ...


Trust me... things could be 100 times worse than what you are explaining here. 

I think Farsidejunky said it best. She wants you to be happy which means you have something to work with. Encourage it. Get some help. I think you can easily save this if you put in time and effort.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

*


Kput said:



Has anyone else been in this situation and felt the same?

Click to expand...

*So you want her to magically become hypersexual again and you're ticked off because she tried to tell you that she doesn't feel that way anymore?

This is EXACTLY why it doesn't pay to be honest with men like you, OP. She TOLD you that this is the way her body reacts now and you claim she's" patronizing" you because she tried to tell you the truth but wanted to sugarcoat it a little because she knew it wasn't what you wanted to hear.

Well, too bad. That's REALITY.

You carry a kid for 9 months, push it out, nurse it and then stay attached to it 24/7 (which you've done none of - SHE has) and *then* tell us how sexual it makes YOU feel.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

SSGI, Two years later maybe but twelve years later is unreasonable.

She has made no attempt to my knowledge to find the reason for the libido drop or how to recover it, if I had ed of a pe issue I would search high and low for a solution.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Does she


Kput said:


> SSGI, Two years later maybe but twelve years later is unreasonable.
> 
> She has made no attempt to my knowledge to find the reason for the libido drop or how to recover it, if I had ed of a pe issue I would search high and low for a solution.


Twelve years is a very long time to have this issue together. Do you think she is still attracted to you? Does she show affection, kiss/hug you throughout the day, etc?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Kput said:


> if I had ed of a pe issue I would search high and low for a solution.


But this is because you care about sex, she doesn't... or at least not that much. She still tries to make you happy, but wanting to get back to pre-children is rather naive, IMO. Although I do understand, because I've been there. I tried too and I failed. Ruining everything along the road.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

How do you show her you love her?


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Very affectionate woman, we go to lots of rock concerts and festivals, comedy clubs etc on our own and with others.

We work out in our home gym together and run some races.

We are not even close to constantly in conflict.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Snowbum, by acts of service which is her thing and by showing interest in the things that matter to her.

And by stopping my wife and daughter killing each other 😱


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Kput said:


> SSGI, Two years later maybe but twelve years later is unreasonable.
> 
> She has made no attempt to my knowledge to find the reason for the libido drop or how to recover it, if I had ed of a pe issue I would search high and low for a solution.


we have been telling you the reason for the drop in both of your threads - Marriage and child birth/rearing. Those are the reasons. 

NRE does not last forever.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Kput said:


> SSGI, Two years later maybe but twelve years later is unreasonable.
> 
> She has made no attempt to my knowledge to find the reason for the libido drop or how to recover it, if I had ed of a pe issue I would search high and low for a solution.


How much searching high and low have you done to make sure you are meeting all your wife’s needs, which is a huge motivation to want have sex. This thread is making me want to puke as many of the men here basically refer to women ‘servicing‘ them in return for security etc. i thought prostitutes were for that? What happened to wanting sex in a mutually enjoyable, emotionally and physically driven way. i Pity many of the wives of some of the men here, it’s all about the destination and meeting your own needs, not about the journey or meeting your woman's needs, one of the biggest turnoffs there is.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Kput said:


> if I had ed of a pe issue I would search high and low for a solution.


PE and the attenuation of spontaneous desire of women/mothers in long term marriages with children are not apples to apples. 

Her vagina works fine, it’s that she is no longer the 20something, childless, single woman that Mother Nature is fueling with horny hormones so that she perpetuates the species. 

ED is a physiological issue. 

Her desire issue is a constellation of relationship, hormonal, sociological, emotional and psychological changes.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

And what if nothing changes and what you have now is how it will be forever? Can you live with that?


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Kput said:


> SSGI, Two years later maybe but twelve years later is unreasonable.
> 
> She has made no attempt to my knowledge to find the reason for the libido drop or how to recover it, if I had ed of a pe issue I would search high and low for a solution.


Im not one for passive aggressive tactics, but have you considered just dropping initiating for a while to see what she would do or say??

My guess is probably nothing, and may even be in a better mood, thinking that you finally gave up and she doesn't need to do the dog and pony show any more...

I dunno...In any case, if this is an important component for you, then you will have to figure it out...These things almost never get better over time..


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

BoSlander said:


> I have. And it sucks.
> 
> I still remember the time when I was told that this was about to happen... 8-month pregnant XW and I are attending a class at the hospital my XW was going to give birth in and, out of the blue, the head nurse asks all women to leave the room. She then goes on to tell us what is about to happen to our wives, that we're most likely about to lose a wife and gain a mother, that the sex is going to take a nosedive at least in the short term and that her nest-building senses are about to go on overdrive, hence not to lash back.
> 
> Probably one of the realest moments in my life. Of course, we all sat there looking at each other like "WTF did we just hear?!" Felt kind of set up... many were insinuating "I wish I'd known about this before I got married" and the sort.


Or maybe just googled about women having kids before marriage.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Openminded, who knows my marriage is pretty good in most aspects, I have ceased to initiate sex with my wife do let's see where that takes me.

Out of ideas really maybe I should sub contract the sex part


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Hama you are a mind reader I posted before reading your post.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

A man who lives and respects his wife doesn’t talk about cheating. You’ve mentioned it several times. I think sex is more important than your relationship


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Kput said:


> My wife went from very hd to ld following childbirth which I am far from happy about.
> 
> I nearly always have to instigate now so following an afternoon session a couple of years ago I said to her "you don't seem to get much from sex anymore and she replied " I get my pleasure from seeing you happy and that makes me happy" I asked so not from sex itself she then realised where this was going and tried to backtrack a bit.
> 
> ...


Yep, typical.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Then you think wrong, sex is part of a relationship not an item to be considered as a separate thing.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Kput said:


> Then you think wrong, sex is part of a relationship not an item to be considered as a separate thing.


Yes, I tried having this conversation with my wife. It didn't resonate. I went with the roommate scenario and nothing. The passion is gone, all we got to look forward to is years of duty sex.


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## 342693 (Mar 2, 2020)

I wonder how OP’s wife would react if they had a great sex life and his drive started to drop to the point that he could no longer get an erection? Something tells me she wouldn’t be looking to bail since she loves him.

Our bodies change and with it, our sex drives. Again, see if you can please her orally to see if you can jumpstart the passion some.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

gameopoly5 said:


> Regardless whether a wife has children or not, after a few years of marriage the passion for sex begins to decline.
> It`s never going to be as fulfilling as when being newly weds and how it was during the first 2 to 3 years of marriage.
> I can remember after being married for only a few months my wife and I went out for an evening.
> When arriving home we were groping and kissing each other even before entering our home, then before closing the front door we were throwing off our clothes and straight into the bedroom.
> ...


Yes, marriage seems to destroy passion. That time apart seems to get the motors going or something. Once you live together, you are just a boring piece of furniture to her. Add kids into the mix and you can just go ahead and chemically castrate yourself with SSRIs.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

What’s duty sex to you? Anything not meeting your link? Not meeting you at the door nude? Not performing porn scenes? I enjoy intimacy with dh 3 times a week. I’m not into role playing or bondage etc. is that duty sex? If you want illicit sex with your wife it ain’t going to happen. Have an affair if you feel that’s what you need yo do for your needs. Be ready to kiss your life and wife goodbye


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Yes, marriage seems to destroy passion. That time apart seems to get the motors going or something. Once you live together, you are just a boring piece of furniture to her. Add kids into the mix and you can just go ahead and chemically castrate yourself with SSRIs.


Esther Perel here has lots to say on this topic. "Mating in Captivity" is all about the need to keep some of that excitement in a boring institution.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Yes, marriage seems to destroy passion. That time apart seems to get the motors going or something. Once you live together, you are just a boring piece of furniture to her. Add kids into the mix and you can just go ahead and chemically castrate yourself with SSRIs.


That is not the case in all marriages. Maybe you chose poorly


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

SCD, from when I met my wife at 22 until my first child was born at 30 we had 8 years of nre (unusual I know) we had porn level sex with her being a very willing participant. I would just love to do all that now or any part of that she desires.

Oldshirt, regardless of apples and oranges it does not change the fact that she is not looking for a solution.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Snowbum, let me use an analogy. I used to eat a a great establishment with great decor and ambiance a terrific chef and amazing dishes the only thing that has changed if there is only noodles on the menu.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Kput said:


> Oldshirt, regardless of apples and oranges it does not change the fact that she is not looking for a solution.


Is she complaining about your sex life??

What kind of solution do you expect her to find when this is a normal and natural response in long term marriages with children and YOU are the one that is dissatisfied?

Shouldn’t it be YOU seeking ways to liven things up since you are the one with the complaint? 

How do you expect her to find a solution to her nature that has been millions of years of evolution in the making?


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Kput said:


> Snowbum, let me use an analogy. I used to eat a a great establishment with great decor and ambiance a terrific chef and amazing dishes the only thing that has changed if there is only noodles on the menu.


You no longer love your wife. You resent her and long for others. Leave the marriage honestly. It’s dead to you anyway you given no evidence you care about your wife. Don’t be a douche bag cheater. File for divorce


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

gameopoly5 said:


> Regardless whether a wife has children or not, after a few years of marriage the passion for sex begins to decline.
> It`s never going to be as fulfilling as when being newly weds and how it was during the first 2 to 3 years of marriage.
> I can remember after being married for only a few months my wife and I went out for an evening.
> When arriving home we were groping and kissing each other even before entering our home, then before closing the front door we were throwing off our clothes and straight into the bedroom.
> ...


They are bluffing


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

My apologies if I come across as combative this seems to come to mind when I am home alone, when I am out at work or with family it tends to fade into the background and not thought about


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

snowbum said:


> A man who lives and respects his wife doesn’t talk about cheating. You’ve mentioned it several times. I think sex is more important than your relationship


This response is usually out of years of exasperation with no resolution...I think its not something someone just comes out and says.....


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Snowbum, with respect you are clueless in this matter at least.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Kput said:


> Snowbum, let me use an analogy. I used to eat a a great establishment with great decor and ambiance a terrific chef and amazing dishes the only thing that has changed if there is only noodles on the menu.


Your options are - 

- suck it up and eat your noodles and stop whining about it.

- stay home and make your own meals.

- work with the restaurant and offer to help them in the kitchen to add more diversity to their menu.

- stop going to that restaurant and eat at another establishment.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

You realize porn stars are paid to act and what you see isn’t reality. You realize your obsession with porn sex will cause a woman who honestly loves you and is devoted to you, to leave? Your desire for fascade sex will be your downfall and you are happy to see it happen. Ok then. You are equally responsible yet you just ***** that your wife doesn’t want she. Like a 21 year old. Sad.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Oldshirt, how about hrt or hormone check up, she has never shown any interest in exploring those things.

Anyway my daughter has arrived so I will be off to make dinner.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Kput said:


> Snowbum, with respect you are clueless in this matter at least.


Really? I’m clueless? There’s a difference between enthusiastic marital sex and a dude who wants a sex life like he had 20 years ago.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

snowbum said:


> You no longer love your wife. You resent her and long for others. Leave the marriage honestly. It’s dead to you anyway you given no evidence you care about your wife. Don’t be a douche bag cheater. File for divorce


Yes, because divorce is always the answer to every spousal issue...


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## Loves Coffee (4 mo ago)

Kput said:


> SCD, from when I met my wife at 22 until my first child was born at 30 we had 8 years of nre (unusual I know) we had porn level sex with her being a very willing participant. I would just love to do all that now or any part of that she desires.
> 
> Oldshirt, regardless of apples and oranges it does not change the fact that she is not looking for a solution.


That's a pretty drastic change. I can understand where you're coming from on this. 12 years is a long time and signals acceptance of status quo. 

Is this something you're willing to leave her over? You were talking about cheating, but why bother? What's keeping you from just leaving?


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

FFS Snowbum, my wife was my very willing partner in "porn" sex for EIGHT YEARS she was never coerced or reluctant in fact it was at times especially at the weekend hard to keep up with her.

and goodnight


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Kput said:


> Oldshirt, how about hrt or hormone check up, she has never shown any interest in exploring those things.


You can suggest having her hormones tested, but assuming she is healthy and within normal range, then HRT would not be indicated and dumping more hormones into her would just pose a risk of complications and side effects without much if any benefit.

If she does have an abnormal low hormone level, hormone therapy can improve her baseline level of libido but will not correct relationship issues nor will it transform her back to a 25 year old childless single woman with a new boyfriend. 

A risk with manipulating people’s hormones is they may in fact get a spike in libido. - but it may not be for you. That chemical fueled rise in baseline desire may be for Sven From Yoga. 

It’s worth looking into in case there is some kind of actual hormonal deficit or imbalance. 

But I have the feeling if she had an actual physiological issue going on, it would be manifesting in other ways and having other health issues other than not being a porn star in bed at 45 years old with teenagers that has been married for 20 years.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> So you want her to magically become hypersexual again and you're ticked off because she tried to tell you that she doesn't feel that way anymore?
> 
> This is EXACTLY why it doesn't pay to be honest with men like you, OP. She TOLD you that this is the way her body reacts now and you claim she's" patronizing" you because she tried to tell you the truth but wanted to sugarcoat it a little because she knew it wasn't what you wanted to hear.
> 
> ...


Youngest child is _12 years old_. 

So having a child more than a decade ago steals your sexuality forevermore??

No, it does not.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Livvie said:


> Youngest child is _12 years old_.
> 
> So having a child more than a decade ago steals your sexuality forevermore??
> 
> No, it does not.


Her sexuality has not been stolen. They are having an active and consistent sex life. She is not rejecting or rebuffing him. 

By many metrics their sex life is exemplary, even enviable to many. 

She is just not the horndog she was 20 years and a couple kids ago.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> Her sexuality has not been stolen. They are having an active and consistent sex life. She is not rejecting or rebuffing him.
> 
> By many metrics their sex life is exemplary, even enviable to many.
> 
> She is just not the horndog she was 20 years and a couple kids ago.


I was replying to another poster, not you, who basically said having a child makes you non sexual.

Child was 12 years ago. The pregnancy and young child she had over a decade ago shouldn't be a factor in her sexuality now, over a decade later.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

@Kput i am trying to be as objective and balanced as I can but I really do understand your frustration and can even relate to your anger and resentment as I have BTDT myself.

My wife and I also had a remarkably high-octane sex life for many years including making our own homemade porn videos and roadhead on the way home from the the store, getting down in the dressing rooms of clothing stores, sneaking into supply rooms at our work,,, and we even spent about 10 years in the swinging lifestyle where we had a myriad of 3somes, 4somes, orgies and although we do not have any porn videos on the internet, we have gotten down with some people who do have a series of amateur videos on the porn sites. I was banging slender, hot chicks in their early-mid 20s at 48 years old.

In other words, I too was living the dream…. Beyond what I could ever dream of actually.

…. And then within the course of a year or as age and menopause and side effects of medication came into play, it all dwindled down to where it is mostly uninspired duty sex and handjobs and occasional BJs for me as well. 

I am truly living with a completely different person than I was just a handful of years ago. It’s truly like she was abducted by aliens and replaced with a replicant pod person. 

I would be lying if I said that wasn’t frustrated to the point of bitterness. I’d be lying if I said that I haven’t been angry at God and Mother Nature. 

I’d be lying if I said that I don’t yearn for yesterday and literally mourn the loss of what we once were. 

And I’d be lying if I said I have not considered divorce or considered looking elsewhere. 

We have been a couple different MCs a couple different times. We have discussed divorce and open marriage. 

I have poured countless hours into books and podcasts and the pages of this website. I have hit the gym to the point I was the strongest and most fit and ripped at 50 than at any time of my life. 

And what is my conclusion? Answer= This is life. It is what it is. 

I am still a work in progress and I have not reached any finish lines or spiked the ball. 

You can divorce and see what you can get in your mid 40’s while paying child support.

You can get a sugar baby or a mistress if you are good looking and “generous” enough. 

You may even be able to talk her into swinging or open marriage so you don’t have to face the wrath of getting caught cheating or getting caught with a paid professional.

But there is no perfect solution that turns back the hands of time. 

I feel your pain because I lived it and to a certain degree am still living with a degree of frustration and disappointment. 

Maybe some day I’ll leave and see if I can find someone else for the remainder of my days. Maybe she’ll dump me because she just plain doesn’t want me around any more.

Maybe I’ll get a sugar baby or find some equally frustrated MW and help meet each other’s needs on the down low.

But regardless of what path I walk, I’m not going to find a time machine or just happen to step through a time warp. 

And I can’t feel anger or resentment or bitterness towards her anymore because she misses the good ol days just as much as me and she did not choose her biology.

Curse God, curse Mother Nature, curse the Tooth Fairy and do whatever you gotta do to save your own sanity, but anger and resentment towards her is misplaced and counterproductive, she didn’t choose this and she is at least trying to address your needs.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Kput said:


> My wife went from very hd to ld following childbirth which I am far from happy about.
> 
> I nearly always have to instigate now so following an afternoon session a couple of years ago I said to her "you don't seem to get much from sex anymore and she replied* " I get my pleasure from seeing you happy and that makes me happy" I asked so not from sex itself she then realised where this was going and tried to backtrack a bit.*
> 
> ...





Kput said:


> *12 years since the second child. Regular sex but very bland*





Kput said:


> Snowbum, by *acts of service which is her thing and by showing interest in the things that matter to her.*
> 
> And by stopping my wife and daughter killing each other 😱





Kput said:


> Openminded, who knows *my marriage is pretty good in most aspects, I have ceased to initiate sex with my wife do let's see where that takes me.*
> 
> Out of ideas really maybe I should sub contract the sex part





Kput said:


> SCD, from when I met my wife at 22 until my first child was born at 30 we had 8 years of nre (unusual I know) we had porn level sex with her being a very willing participant. I would just love to do all that now or any part of that she desires.
> 
> Oldshirt, regardless of apples and oranges it does not change the fact that she is not looking for a solution.


A few thoughts, Yes, I have been there, but we worked through it, although never had the porn star sex.

One of the hardest things I learned in saving my sex starved marriage, was that my wife is LD compared to my HD. In such a situation that is our basic nature.

What I had to wrap my head around was to realize that I really do love and enjoy sexually pleasuring her. I gives me great joy to bring my wife to organsm. Knowing that, I had to learn that since she is LD and I am HD, for our relationship to be a healthy one, I will need to have sex less than I desire and she will need to have sex more than she would prefer and find a compromise that we can both live with and enjoy. That means that when she lovingly gives me the gift of her body, it is because she wants to, because she loves me, because she knows it is good for our marriage. It also means that I need to be greatful and respectful.

Don't stop initiating. Sex is too important to a marriage. Good luck.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

If you and your wife were having “porn star level” sex 12 years ago, it doesn’t bother her that she isn’t enjoying sex much at all, now? Just seems odd to me. I believe what you’re saying, OP - it just seems strange that she doesn’t miss sex with you.


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## DLC (Sep 19, 2021)

She wants to do what makes you happy.
She is a keeper.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Kput said:


> I said to her "you don't seem to get much from sex anymore and she replied "I get my pleasure from seeing you happy and that makes me happy."
> 
> Tbh I felt patronised by her stance and very pi££ed about it
> 
> Has anyone else been in this situation and felt the same?


Anytime a person receives or performs oral sex, that’s the dynamic. (Except the part about the recipient feeling pissed off over it.)


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

DLC said:


> She wants to do what makes you happy.
> She is a keeper.


Its really not that simple...

I mean this may not be the best analogy, but, if a guy visits a prostitute, she is "doing what makes him happy"

She really doesn't want to do it, but could use the money...In a case like the OP's, she really doesn't want to do it, either but for different reasons...

It's why(among other things) sex with a prostitute would be very unfulfilling...and undesirable..


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> Her vagina works fine, it’s that she is no longer the 20something, childless, single woman that Mother Nature is fueling with horny hormones so that she perpetuates the species.


That's a sticky...the reason for The Great Decline in many women.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

snowbum said:


> A man who lives and respects his wife doesn’t talk about cheating. You’ve mentioned it several times. I think sex is more important than your relationship


The longer you remain under water, the greater the need you have for oxygen. In fact, the need increases exponentially.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

DLC said:


> She wants to do what makes you happy.
> She is a keeper.


Just a sidebar comment - up until the last 40-50 years or so, it was the position of the medical and psychological communities that women typically did not have innate sexdrives and medical and psychological textbooks at the time stated that women’s interests were of the, quote “hearth and home and the rearing of children, and donnot have the prurient desires as do men.” Unquote. 

Up until the 1950s or so, a woman that had sex out of wedlock with a number of men or a woman that reported to her doctor that she was feeling horny, could be sent to a mental asylum for “nymphomania.” 

Up until fairly recent times, a woman that tended to the home and children, did not deny her husband but who also had no innate desire of her own (thereby reducing risk of adultery) was considered a fine wife and a fortunate catch for a man.

It’s only been within the last few generations that women were expected to have their own yearnings and desires at all.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

hamadryad said:


> Its really not that simple...
> 
> I mean this may not be the best analogy, but, if a guy visits a prostitute, she is "doing what makes him happy"
> 
> ...


I think my oral sex analogy is more apropos.

A woman who performs oral on you isn’t doing it because of the way it makes her tongue feel. If she enjoys it, it’s getting pleasure from giving you pleasure.

A prostitute doesn’t care about your pleasure or happiness, just your money.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

CraigBesuden said:


> I think my oral sex analogy is more apropos.
> 
> A woman who performs oral on you isn’t doing it because of the way it makes her tongue feel. If *she enjoys it, it’s getting pleasure from giving you pleasure.*
> 
> A prostitute doesn’t care about your pleasure or happiness, just your money.



Uhhh,,,,no.....lol...many women love giving head, just like many women love having sex...if they don't they tend not to do it....


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CraigBesuden said:


> A prostitute doesn’t care about your pleasure or happiness, just your money.


If she cares about repeat customers and continued revenue stream, then she cares about her customer’s pleasure and happiness.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

hamadryad said:


> Uhhh,,,,no.....lol...many women love giving head, just like many women love having sex...if they don't they tend not to do it....


ummm no... Women give head because they love pleasing their partner. Or at least most the women I know.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Anastasia6 said:


> ummm no... Women give head because they love pleasing their partner. Or at least most the women I know.


Suffice to say, ive had more sex with women than you have and I also have a penis and you don't...

I mean, sure, I guess just like some guys don't like eating vagina/ass but do it, some actually do and actually enjoy it.....

But none of this has anything to do with the OP's situation...

She doesn't want SEX..... period....Its not she loves PIV and all other forms of sex and often initiates, but BJ's hurt her jaw, so she sucks it up and does it because he likes it...If that was the case, I am sure this thread wouldn't exist..


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

gameopoly5 said:


> if there are any long term married couples here who *claim their sex lives are still as good as it was during the early days* of their marriage, I`d love to know their secret.


Raises hand.  Don't know the secret.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CraigBesuden said:


> I think my oral sex analogy is more apropos.
> 
> A woman who performs oral on you isn’t doing it because of the way it makes her tongue feel. If she enjoys it, it’s getting pleasure from giving you pleasure.


I disagree. Now that much of the social stigmas around oral sex have faded away, a lot of people genuinely do enjoy giving oral sex. 

Some people may have some hang ups and inhibitions but a lot of men and women both enjoy doing it and find it an arousing activity and a turn on to give as well as receive.


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## DallasCowboyFan (Nov 20, 2012)

A lifetime of marriage has a number of phases to it and many things wane up or down including sexual desire. Don't lose the bond that sex brings, start initiating again. Even if you are the only one that needs it. She was doing it for you, that is a good thing. She may pull out of her slump down the road, but her desire to satisfy you is something that many marriages lack. My wife and I have been there and she is on hormone therapy now, but even with the therapy, sex is mostly for me. She recognizes the need and wants to meet it. I work hard to meet her needs and desires, sometimes when I don't want to - most of hers are not sexual. We both win.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

hamadryad said:


> But none of this has anything to do with the OP's situation...
> 
> She doesn't want SEX..... period....Its not she loves PIV and all other forms of sex and often initiates, but BJ's hurt her jaw, so she sucks it up and does it because he likes it...If that was the case, I am sure this thread wouldn't exist..


Whoe hang on!! No one has said a thing about her not liking sex and I’m not sure if he’s even said anything about her not doing oral.

His complaint is not that she is rejecting him or protesting having sex in any way - she is just not going into as enthusiastically as she used to and not as wild porn sex as they used to have.

That is not the same as not liking sex or not wanting a marital sex life. 

This is not a sexless marriage scenario like we see here often. The OP and his wife have very regular sex….. it’s just not as passionate and high energy as he would like.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> Whoe hang on!! No one has said a thing about her not liking sex and I’m not sure if he’s even said anything about her not doing oral.
> 
> His complaint is not that she is rejecting him or protesting having sex in any way - she is just not going into as enthusiastically as she used to and not as wild porn sex as they used to have.
> 
> ...


Fair point, but I think we are talking semantics....

If a woman never initiated and when during sex she was unenthusiastic and says "I am only doing this because it makes you happy"....then I would assume that she doesn't like it....or at the very least isn't desiring of me personally, which may be even worse.. Its entirely possible(probable?) that she doesn't really like sex-ether with him, or period- under those circumstances..

But I know there are guys that would jump up and down at that type of deal...So that's why I say its about semantics..


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## Loves Coffee (4 mo ago)

Kput said:


> My wife went from very hd to ld following childbirth which I am far from happy about.
> 
> I nearly always have to instigate now so following an afternoon session a couple of years ago I said to her "you don't seem to get much from sex anymore and she replied " I get my pleasure from seeing you happy and that makes me happy" I asked so not from sex itself she then realised where this was going and tried to backtrack a bit.
> 
> ...


One thing I would recommend is getting her out of the house. Book 2 weeks somewhere and just you and her go. Get her away from any distractions altogether. Establish a minimal outside contact rule during that time so you can both concentrate on each other. Reconnect. Preferably somewhere that has a great view and things not too far away you can go during the day and good food that you don't have to cook. You should know by the end of that 2 weeks if there is any hope of regaining some of what used to be.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

hamadryad said:


> Fair point, but I think we are talking semantics....
> 
> If a woman never initiated and when during sex she was unenthusiastic and says "I am only doing this because it makes you happy"....then I would assume that she doesn't like it....or at the very least isn't desiring of me personally, which may be even worse.. Its entirely possible(probable?) that she doesn't really like sex-ether with him, or period- under those circumstances..
> 
> But I know there are guys that would jump up and down at that type of deal...So that's why I say its about semantics..


The time period that he has had issue with has been the past 12 years and by his statement they has sex at least weekly.

We can argue semantics but I think it’s too big of a stretch to say that that she has been doing it weekly for 12 years if she doesn’t like it. 

I also don’t think initiation is necessarily a fair metric to determine if a wife/mother of 20 years does not like sex. Many women that have been in long term marriages just simply don’t. They don’t have to because typically their H will initiate once his tank fills enough. 

My wife and I ended up in the MC’s office with much the same issues as the OP (and I implored him to seek IC/MC multiple times in his other thread)

The very first meeting with the MC, he turned to my wife and looked her square in the eye and asked her point blank whether she wanted to have a marital sex life or whether she wanted that component of our marriage to be over with. 

She looked at him like he had just grown a 3rd eye and he repeated the question and asked, “do you or do you not want to have a sexlife with Oldshirt or would you rather no longer have any sexual relations with him?”

To which she seemed completely taken aback and said, “well yeah!” 

I’m willing to bet the farm that if the OP and his wife were sitting in the MC’s office and she were asked that same direct question, that her answer would be the same. 

Is she a horny young mink on the prowl? No, but I don’t get the feeling that she does not want to have a marital sex life, nor do I think she would opt for a sexless marriage if it were offered to her.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

gameopoly5 said:


> Regardless whether a wife has children or not, after a few years of marriage the passion for sex begins to decline.
> It`s never going to be as fulfilling as when being newly weds and how it was during the first 2 to 3 years of marriage.
> I can remember after being married for only a few months my wife and I went out for an evening.
> When arriving home we were groping and kissing each other even before entering our home, then before closing the front door we were throwing off our clothes and straight into the bedroom.
> ...


35 years together and our sex life is as good as ever. I really don't know for sure what the secret is. I guess I'm just one sexy mother ****er 😜


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

BoSlander said:


> I have. And it sucks.
> 
> I still remember the time when I was told that this was about to happen... 8-month pregnant XW and I are attending a class at the hospital my XW was going to give birth in and, out of the blue, the head nurse asks all women to leave the room. She then goes on to tell us what is about to happen to our wives, that we're most likely about to lose a wife and gain a mother, that the sex is going to take a nosedive at least in the short term and that her nest-building senses are about to go on overdrive, hence not to lash back.
> 
> Probably one of the realest moments in my life. Of course, we all sat there looking at each other like "WTF did we just hear?!" Felt kind of set up... many were insinuating "I wish I'd known about this before I got married" and the sort.


LoL! First off, no dipstick nurse would have been able to separate Lady Conan from her barbarian.

Secondly, we both would have laughed our butts off when nurse dusty crotch spouted her drivel.😂

My wife couldn't wait to heal fully after giving birth and I was the one telling her to make sure she was ok before we started up again. She's always been a healthy gal though and I don't even think it was two weeks before she was back in the saddle.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> I disagree. Now that much of the social stigmas around oral sex have faded away, a lot of people genuinely do enjoy giving oral sex.
> 
> Some people may have some hang ups and inhibitions but a lot of men and women both enjoy doing it and find it an arousing activity and a turn on to give as well as receive.


We may be arguing semantics here.

If they created a sex toy that looked, smelled, tasted and reacted exactly like a penis (or vagina), do you think there would be many people interested in performing oral sex on it?

Oral sex might be pleasurable and arousing to perform, but only because there is an actual human being attached to those genitals who finds it pleasurable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Loves Coffee said:


> One thing I would recommend is getting her out of the house. Book 2 weeks somewhere and just you and her go. Get her away from any distractions altogether. Establish a minimal outside contact rule during that time so you can both concentrate on each other. Reconnect. Preferably somewhere that has a great view and things not too far away you can go during the day and good food that you don't have to cook. You should know by the end of that 2 weeks if there is any hope of regaining some of what used to be.


Minimal distractions is key. Homes with a TV have less sex. Homes with a TV _ in the bedroom _ have even less.


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## ArthurGPym (Jun 28, 2021)

Will she let you buy a sex robot?

Seriously though, OP you are not going to get any sympathy from this crowd. You have got a lot of poster's goads so I don't know how much help you are getting here. Best you could do is go to a sex coach or therapist and find out if they have some strategies in re-lighting your wife's fire.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> *We can argue semantics but I think it’s too big of a stretch to say that that she has been doing it weekly for 12 years if she doesn’t like it. *
> 
> I also don’t think initiation is necessarily a fair metric to determine if a wife/mother of 20 years does not like sex. Many women that have been in long term marriages just simply don’t. They don’t have to because typically their H will initiate once his tank fills enough.
> 
> My wife and I ended up in the MC’s office with much the same issues as the OP (and I implored him to seek IC/MC multiple times in his other thread)


Heck I have been working for 40+ years and mostly, I don't like it... 😂 And that is for 60 hrs a week, and not for a half hour or so once a week....

But I need to do it to keep my bills paid, and have some nice things, and its entirely possible that her motivation is on some levels, similar...We really don't know...

All kidding aside, In these cases, it would be interesting to "test" the theory by seeing if its him or is it sex in general...I know its impractical, but often times you hear of women that never had sex with their husbands for a lot of the reasons mentioned, yet once free(or in a lot of cases with affairs) she is doing the dirty with a new guy(s)...

But points you made are in fact, valid, its just that the interpretation varies by individual..

That would kinda blow up the whole theory about how biologically women go off sex after kids...


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

hamadryad said:


> know its impractical, but often times you hear of women that never had sex with their husbands for a lot of the reasons mentioned, yet once free(or in a lot of cases with affairs) she is doing the dirty with a new guy(s)...
> 
> But points you made are in fact, valid, its just that the interpretation varies by individual..
> 
> That would kinda blow up the whole theory about how biologically women go off sex after kids...



I’d bet the farm that if she were to get with another man, she would be back to the similar sex beast she was before. 

It’s not that women go off of sex altogether after kids,,, but lose a lot of their spontaneous desire for that particular man.

In her material Dr Psych Mom goes as far to say that women have the same drive to spread their eggs as men do to spread their sperm but it takes a number of years to raise a child to the to self survival and is off the teet. 

Our basic programming for both men and women is not long term monogamy but serial monogamy producing a number of offspring with a number of different partners.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

hamadryad said:


> Its really not that simple...
> 
> I mean this may not be the best analogy, but, if a guy visits a prostitute, she is "doing what makes him happy"
> 
> ...


It's really not that simple. If my wife had told me what his wife told him, I don't think I could be intimate with her anymore; that would be a problem and not the least bit a small problem. AND I do find prostitutes very fulfilling and desirable......


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I guess I'm just one sexy mother ****er 😜


Damn straight you, are!

we don’t call you Big Daddy around these parts for nuthin’!


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> ummm no... Women give head because they love pleasing their partner. Or at least most the women I know.


I believe you when you say this - but it can also be true that some women enjoy giving head.

it can also be true that some women enjoy giving head and enjoy pleasing their man at the same time.

i can say with the utmost certainty that I love giving oral to the woman I am with and am happy to be pleasing her.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> Our basic programming for both men and women is not long term monogamy but serial monogamy producing a number of offspring with a number of different partners.


Cough _bullshyt_ cough.


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

LATERILUS79 said:


> I believe you when you say this - but it can also be true that some women enjoy giving head.
> 
> it can also be true that some women enjoy giving head and enjoy pleasing their man at the same time.
> 
> i can say with the utmost certainty that I love giving oral to the woman I am with and am happy to be pleasing her.


Exactly you enjoy pleasing her. Just as I enjoy pleasing my husband. 

But if I hand you a flesh light you don't start licking and I don't suck a dildo. Because it isn't that we love giving head. It's that we love pleasing our partners.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

ConanHub said:


> Cough _bullshyt_ cough.



Take it up with the anthropologists and social researchers. 

Just because it’s part of basic programming doesn’t mean that everyone does it or that it is even desirable for the masses.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Kput said:


> My wife went from very hd to ld following childbirth which I am far from happy about.
> 
> I nearly always have to instigate now so following an afternoon session a couple of years ago I said to her "you don't seem to get much from sex anymore and she replied " I get my pleasure from seeing you happy and that makes me happy" I asked so not from sex itself she then realised where this was going and tried to backtrack a bit.
> 
> ...


If a spouse loses their own physical desire for sex, but see value in their partner's pleasure and connection, that's not my idea of "duty" sex. That is an act of love. "Duty" sex is sex that's required to stay married, to keep a spouse from straying, with nothing else behind it. No love. And "duty" sex is likely to build resentment over time. 

We can enjoy doing things because they're appreciated by our spouse, even when, perhaps especially when, those things really wouldn't be at the top of our own list. I don't help my wife in the kitchen because I have to. I do it because I can help her with something where she is, her head space, not mine. I don't resent it because it's not something I "have" to do but rather that I want to, because it's for her. 

There's a big no-no, arguments about how nobody is "entitled" to sex with their spouse. I think those arguments are what have removed a lot of the joy of sex. If you're LD you have access to so many ways to legitimize that your partner is at fault for his or her own desire.

Maybe it's something that a guy just cannot possibly understand. The invasiveness of sex to a woman. Maybe the issue is that, in our brains, we have access to our past feelings about sex, and for woman, there's a greater likelihood of locating feelings in which there was coercion and manipulation and even force. Times when it was obviously all about the guy and the woman got nothing out of it. At. All. But the guy got off. Maybe you've been married 5 or 10 years, maybe you just had kids, something changed, and you flashed back to how you had felt used previously, and you found support for feeling that way now, even though it was just something you keyed upon. And all of a sudden sex is no longer playful, is no longer something you can offer and feel really good about what it brings to the relationship. Instead it's related to those prior bad experiences.

I think we, both parties in a relationship, need to establish boundaries when things are good. Talk about what each of you bring to the table, that it will be a priority to not feel like you might have in the past, with someone else. Boundaries that aren't thou shall not stray, but rather that you won't look at a particular circumstance and see it as support for physical intimacy being any different today than it was when you met. I mean sure, you slow down, but surely your relationship early on was based upon more than mind-blowing sex.

Sorry for the ramble. Long story short, I think it possible your wife is a class act and you're not giving her enough credit. She hasn't abandoned you; she's just adapted and is engaging you physically out of love, not duty. The assumes it's not because you told her, x number of times per week or you're leaving.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> Take it up with the anthropologists and social researchers.
> 
> Just because it’s part of basic programming doesn’t mean that everyone does it or that it is even desirable for the masses.


There is also the theory that human evolution has made some men naturally monogamous (nice guy / beta males), some men naturally promiscuous (bad boy / alpha), and women geared to be socially monogamous with a beta while occasionally cheating with alphas during their ovulation.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CraigBesuden said:


> There is also the theory that human evolution has made some men naturally monogamous (nice guy / beta males),


Are they actually naturally monogamous or are they latching on to one woman and holding on for dear life because one is all they’ll be able to get and if she bolts it could be years before they can get another if ever?


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> Are they actually naturally monogamous or are they latching on to one woman and holding on for dear life because one is all they’ll be able to get and if she bolts it could be years before they can get another if ever?


Yep.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

gameopoly5 said:


> Regardless whether a wife has children or not, after a few years of marriage the passion for sex begins to decline.
> It`s never going to be as fulfilling as when being newly weds and how it was during the first 2 to 3 years of marriage.
> I can remember after being married for only a few months my wife and I went out for an evening.
> When arriving home we were groping and kissing each other even before entering our home, then before closing the front door we were throwing off our clothes and straight into the bedroom.
> ...


The loss of passion isn't always just the woman's issue....many men lose that passion for their wives and don't pursue them or treat them like desirable women who they can't keep their hands off of anymore either.

In your example above, did YOU continue to try to grope and kiss your wife on the way home and then rush to the bedroom after going out over the years? Or did YOUR passion to "have" her also wane and cool off?

As a woman, I have always responded to my partner's passion for ME. With my EX, he was colder and had no passion for me at all. So I was careful and extremely reserved and inhibited with him sexually because I didn't want to be rejected or pushed away. I would wait quietly for him to tell me what he wanted me to do, and I never touched him unless he told me it was ok.
My first husband was different, he was always fun and excited about me, and I always responded excitedly to HIS desire for ME. Even after 14yrs together, when he would kiss my neck and pull me close in bed, I would giggle and reach around to see if he was excited, and feel a thrill that he was.

If a man stays passionate and excited about ME and can't keep his hands off of me, I won't be able to keep my hands off of him either and I will feel passion and excitement about him too, based on HIS desire for me and how that makes me feel. And I wonder if that's what happens with SOME of these couples -- does the husband cool off towards his wife (while still loving her and wanting sex with her), and she is responding to that?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

LisaDiane said:


> If a man stays passionate and excited about ME and can't keep his hands off of me, I won't be able to keep my hands off of him either and I will feel passion and excitement about him too, based on HIS desire for me and how that makes me feel. And I wonder if that's what happens with SOME of these couples -- does the husband cool off towards his wife (while still loving her and wanting sex with her), and she is responding to that?


This is exactly the way I see it too. I am non stop passionate about my wife. I really can't keep my hands off of her. I often have to remind myself it may not be appropriate in the moment, but I take every opportunity to let her know how hot I am for her. A day never goes by that she doesn't know that she has a husband that wants her, badly, now, lol. My wife is a bit more subtle, but she really can't keep her hands off me either. I think you are on to something. There is a feedback loop with this kind of thing.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

BigDaddyNY said:


> This is exactly the way I see it too. I am non stop passionate about my wife. I really can't keep my hands off of her. I often have to remind myself it may not be appropriate in the moment, but I take every opportunity to let her know how hot I am for her. A day never goes by that she doesn't know that she has a husband that wants her, badly, now, lol. My wife is a bit more subtle, but she really can't keep her hands off me either. I think you are on to something. There is a feedback loop with this kind of thing.


I think it depends on the personality. I've been with girls (before I got married) who liked that and others who didn't. My wife didn't.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> As a woman, I have always responded to my partner's passion for ME. With my EX, he was colder and had no passion for me at all. So I was careful and extremely reserved and inhibited with him sexually because I didn't want to be rejected or pushed away. I would wait quietly for him to tell me what he wanted me to do, and I never touched him unless he told me it was ok.
> My first husband was different, he was always fun and excited about me, and I always responded excitedly to HIS desire for ME. Even after 14yrs together, when he would kiss my neck and pull me close in bed, I would giggle and reach around to see if he was excited, and feel a thrill that he was.
> 
> If a man stays passionate and excited about ME and can't keep his hands off of me, I won't be able to keep my hands off of him either and I will feel passion and excitement about him too, based on HIS desire for me and how that makes me feel. And I wonder if that's what happens with SOME of these couples -- does the husband cool off towards his wife (while still loving her and wanting sex with her), and she is responding to that?


😂 (kiddin, of course)...


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> I think it depends on the personality. I've been with girls (before I got married) who liked that and others who didn't. My wife didn't.


Maybe her lack of interest in you physically expressing your passion for her was a prelude to what would come later, a dead bedroom.

If you want a passionate love life then you better be with someone that accepts your displays of passion and gives them in teturn.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

LisaDiane said:


> The loss of passion isn't always just the woman's issue....many men lose that passion for their wives and don't pursue them or treat them like desirable women who they can't keep their hands off of anymore either.
> 
> In your example above, did YOU continue to try to grope and kiss your wife on the way home and then rush to the bedroom after going out over the years? Or did YOUR passion to "have" her also wane and cool off?
> 
> ...


Your point is very valid and for sure there are men that lose their desire for their partners first and no longer woo, pursue or initiate with them and things spiral and cascade downhill from there.

But it often becomes kind of a chicken vs the egg type thing in which partner loses interest first causing the other a reciprocal loss of interest or response. 

When either does try to initiate or “can’t keep their hands off” and they are met with overt annoyance, defensive body posture, withdrawal and outright rejection, their motivation for initiation quickly fades. One can only bang their head into a wall so many times before they realize the headache ain’t worth it. 

That is why on principle I would never reject a partner’s bid for some lovins. I know that doesn’t mean much coming from a HD person, but I’m not talking about horniness. I’m talking about a philosophy of not rejecting the person you love’s bid for love and pleasure. 

I’ll use an example from Dr Psych Mom to demonstrate my point, but if their young child approached them with open arms wanting a hug, would they recoil in annoyance and push that child away and say, “I’m not in the mood for a hug”? Would they get spiteful and say, “I gave you a hug last week” or “you only want hugs” or how about “ if you would help me around the house and help me with your brothers and sisters, I would have more time and energy to give you a hug now and then” 

Would any mother say or do those things to a child wanting a hug? 

More importantly, How would that child feel being pushed away with a snear and told that the other person wasn’t in the mood or that they had to clean the house and fix the patio deck before they were worthy of a hug?

We may have developed into adults and our hormonal systems may influence our need for love and affection to manifest sexually, but we are the same beings we were as children wanting love and physical affection. 

So regardless of chicken vs egg and who starts it first, getting into any kind of habit of rejection is a very slippery slope that can spiral downhill very rapidly.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Maybe her lack of interest in you physically expressing your passion for her was a prelude to what would come later, a dead bedroom.


Maybe. She just wasn't that type of person. Never been. BTW... we didn't have a dead bedroom - frequency wasn't great, but the sex was fun. She left our sexual relationship unilaterally nearly 4 years ago. We are not together any more, because of that.

My next partner will be a truly passionate one... if I don't die before...


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## BoSlander (6 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> This is exactly the way I see it too. I am non stop passionate about my wife. I really can't keep my hands off of her. I often have to remind myself it may not be appropriate in the moment, but I take every opportunity to let her know how hot I am for her. A day never goes by that she doesn't know that she has a husband that wants her, badly, now, lol. My wife is a bit more subtle, but she really can't keep her hands off me either. I think you are on to something. There is a feedback loop with this kind of thing.


That's exactly how I was with my XW. And still she cheated on me. 

I hope people understand that cheating is a moving target. There isn't a gender, a type, a look, a weight, an age or a relationship type that fits all. You can be happy as a cucumber in your relationship, have loads of ball-bursting sex, have little to no separate social life and immediately come home from work and STILL get cheated on.

The only thing we all can do is #1) marry someone without a cheating past, #2) create the emotional/romantic conditions that actually make your SO want to come home to, #3) MOST IMPORTANT, minimize the times/places where cheating can occur and #4) mouth close, ears open. If I had it my way I'd add #5) sporadic "truth checks (without her/him knowing, check phone, internet history and phone calls/texts)," but people here told me that's going above and beyond and that if you get to that point you might as well divorce so... it's a personal matter.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

BoSlander said:


> That's exactly how I was with my XW. And still she cheated on me.
> 
> I hope people understand that cheating is a moving target. There isn't a gender, a type, a look, a weight, an age or a relationship type that fits all. You can be happy as a cucumber in your relationship, have loads of ball-bursting sex, have little to no separate social life and immediately come home from work and STILL get cheated on.
> 
> The only thing we all can do is #1) marry someone without a cheating past, #2) create the emotional/romantic conditions that actually make your SO want to come home to, #3) MOST IMPORTANT, minimize the times/places where cheating can occur and #4) mouth close, ears open. If I had it my way I'd add #5) sporadic "truth checks (without her/him knowing, check phone, internet history and phone calls/texts)," but people here told me that's going above and beyond and that if you get to that point you might as well divorce so... it's a personal matter.


Cheaters are gonna cheat. I think even if you do all 5 things you listed a cheater will still find a way to cheat. You may just not go as long in the dark by practicing #4 and #5. 

I wasn't really talking about infidelity prevention though. I was talking about keeping the passion alive long term to help maintain a good sex life. It sounds like it actually worked with your wife. If I recall you still had a good sex life with her, but a major character flaw also made her look outside the marriage for sexual gratification, among other twisted reasons.


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## BoSlander (6 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Cheaters are gonna cheat. I think even if you do all 5 things you listed a cheater will still find a way to cheat. You may just not go as long in the dark by practicing #4 and #5.
> 
> I wasn't really talking about infidelity prevention though. I was talking about keeping the passion alive long term to help maintain a good sex life. It sounds like it actually worked with your wife. If I recall you still had a good sex life with her, but a major character flaw also made her look outside the marriage for sexual gratification, among other twisted reasons.


No, I actually found out immediately as soon as I did #4 and #5. I was in the dark before that. In fact, I found out about most of my XW cheating habits from #5.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

BoSlander said:


> That's exactly how I was with my XW. And still she cheated on me.
> 
> I hope people understand that cheating is a moving target. There isn't a gender, a type, a look, a weight, an age or a relationship type that fits all. You can be happy as a cucumber in your relationship, have loads of ball-bursting sex, have little to no separate social life and immediately come home from work and STILL get cheated on.
> 
> The only thing we all can do is #1) marry someone without a cheating past, #2) create the emotional/romantic conditions that actually make your SO want to come home to, #3) MOST IMPORTANT, minimize the times/places where cheating can occur and #4) mouth close, ears open. If I had it my way I'd add #5) sporadic "truth checks (without her/him knowing, check phone, internet history and phone calls/texts)," but people here told me that's going above and beyond and that if you get to that point you might as well divorce so... it's a personal matter.


But #1 requires honesty in most cases. Or you have to actively dig into their story.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BoSlander said:


> That's exactly how I was with my XW. And still she cheated on me.
> 
> I hope people understand that cheating is a moving target. There isn't a gender, a type, a look, a weight, an age or a relationship type that fits all. You can be happy as a cucumber in your relationship, have loads of ball-bursting sex, have little to no separate social life and immediately come home from work and STILL get cheated on.
> 
> The only thing we all can do is #1) marry someone without a cheating past, #2) create the emotional/romantic conditions that actually make your SO want to come home to, #3) MOST IMPORTANT, minimize the times/places where cheating can occur and #4) mouth close, ears open. If I had it my way I'd add #5) sporadic "truth checks (without her/him knowing, check phone, internet history and phone calls/texts)," but people here told me that's going above and beyond and that if you get to that point you might as well divorce so... it's a personal matter.


I kind of agree with number 2 in that we need to do our due diligence as a good partner. 

But beyond that I am not going to live as a prison guard and I am not going to be anyone's warden. 

My job really isn't to prevent anyone from cheating. My job is to be a good partner and do my due diligence to try my best to meet their needs in good faith. If they are going to cheat despite my efforts at being a good partner, they are going to cheat. 

My other job is to develop myself and be as integrated and as whole as person I can be so if someone does cheat or leave me or I dump them, that I do not lose a signficant part of myself and it does not ruin my life and that I can brush myself off and keep on truck'n. 

That does not mean that I will not be hurt or angry or sad or disgusted and it does not mean that I won't cry in my pillow at night. 

What it does mean is I recognize and accept that bad things happen in the world and that I am not immune and that I develop the strength and coping skills and resiliency in myself, that if someone bad does happen that I continue to be myself and keep moving forward with my own life. I may stumble. I may fall. But I have the means to get back up and keep on truck'n. 

I am certainly not advocating being in denial or having one's head in the sand or up their own backside, if you smell a rat, there is a rat and if you smell smoke, there is a fire. I do not want to get cheated on any more than the next person. But I want to spend my time and my energy and my mojo living my life and spending it making sure someone else isn't doing any shenanigans with their genitalia.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> Exactly you enjoy pleasing her. Just as I enjoy pleasing my husband.
> 
> But if I hand you a flesh light you don't start licking and I don't suck a dildo. Because it isn't that we love giving head. It's that we love pleasing our partners.


Licking a fleshlight? Hmmm........


JUST KIDDING.


You make a good point. I didn't think of it this way. 

I had to think about this for a few hours if it really does come down to doing it for my partner to please them or doing it for myself because I enjoy. I still maintain that it is both. 

Let's use your analogy as the example but look at it in another way. I love boobs. Pretty much more than anything else on this planet. However, if you put a silcone mold of boobs in front of me, it isn't going to do anything for me nor will I be inclined to touch them. However, a nice rack on a real woman? I'm gonna want to touch because I want to. Why? Because I enjoy doing it. My preference of course is that she also enjoys me touching there. However, if she is just allowing me to touch boobs even though she doesn't enjoy it and she is only allowing it because it makes me happy.... well, I'm still happier than a pig in sh1t. 

Same thing goes for oral. There are many times my exwife would turn down receiving oral. I still really wanted to do it anyway because I enjoy doing it. I suspect there are women as well that enjoy giving head. 

However, I would also suspect that a large portion of the population, if not the majority, would see it your way. They give oral because it makes them happy to please their partner.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

BoSlander said:


> That's exactly how I was with my XW. And still she cheated on me.
> 
> I hope people understand that cheating is a moving target. There isn't a gender, a type, a look, a weight, an age or a relationship type that fits all. You can be happy as a cucumber in your relationship, have loads of ball-bursting sex, have little to no separate social life and immediately come home from work and STILL get cheated on.
> 
> The only thing we all can do is #1) marry someone without a cheating past, #2) create the emotional/romantic conditions that actually make your SO want to come home to, #3) MOST IMPORTANT, minimize the times/places where cheating can occur and #4) mouth close, ears open. If I had it my way I'd add #5) sporadic "truth checks (without her/him knowing, check phone, internet history and phone calls/texts)," but people here told me that's going above and beyond and that if you get to that point you might as well divorce so... it's a personal matter.


I've always felt that cheating is a character flaw on the part of the cheater. Of course, the betrayed person feels it was somehow their fault, but it really comes down to their lack of character.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

*Deidre* said:


> I've always felt that cheating is a character flaw on the part of the cheater. Of course, the betrayed person feels it was somehow their fault, but it really comes down to their lack of character.


Thankfully I never thought it was my fault the XW cheated


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

[QUOTE="LATERILUS79, post: 20648202, member: 348930".




*Same thing goes for oral. There are many times my exwife would turn down receiving oral. I still really wanted to do it anyway because I enjoy doing it. I suspect there are women as well that enjoy giving head.*

[/QUOTE]

You never had a woman so enthusiastic that after a few minutes you had to get her off you as your pecker felt like it spent 10 minutes in a Cuisinart?...You don't know what you are missing, buddy....lol...


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Numb26 said:


> Thankfully I never thought it was my fault the XW cheated


Good!


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## Dave8686 (Apr 4, 2021)

All in all I would consider myself lucky to be in your position. She may not instigate. But she accepts your advances. And actually enjoys the fact it pleases you. I would take that scenario in a second. 

My wife would only instigate sex when the specific goal was to get pregnant. She would entertain me instigating, as long it was a time where we were trying to get pregnant. However after we were done having kids. All sex stopped 100%. It’s been well over 10 years now.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

snowbum said:


> That is not the case in all marriages. Maybe you chose poorly


Looping back to the Esther Perel mention, she does assert that the familiarity of marriage destroys passion.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

*Deidre* said:


> I've always felt that cheating is a character flaw on the part of the cheater. Of course, the betrayed person feels it was somehow their fault, but it really comes down to their lack of character.


There is even a genetic component:

* Scientists have a hunch that the desire to cheat could be linked back to something called the dopamine receptor DRD4 polymorphism — aka the "thrill-seeking" gene that's also been called out as the gene responsible for alcoholism and gambling addiction.

In a 2010 study performed by researchers at Binghamton University in New York, it was found that participants who possessed a specific kind of DRD4 gene were more likely to cheat. *









It turns out cheating might be genetic — here's what you need to know


There might be scientific evidence that says cheating is genetic. But just because someone's genes make them more inclined to cheat doesn't necessarily mean they'll act on their impulses. Here's what you need to know about the relationship between genetics and infidelity.




www.businessinsider.com





A parasite that roughly 50% of people have may cause them to take more risks, more attractive to the opposite sex, and have more sexual partners:





__





Mind-Altering Parasite May Make Infected People More Attractive, Study Suggests


The brain-hijacking parasite Toxoplasma gondii seems to be almost everywhere.




www.sciencealert.com






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

CraigBesuden said:


> There is even a genetic component:
> 
> * Scientists have a hunch that the desire to cheat could be linked back to something called the dopamine receptor DRD4 polymorphism — aka the "thrill-seeking" gene that's also been called out as the gene responsible for alcoholism and gambling addiction.
> 
> ...


Cheater: “I can’t help it, I was born to cheat!”

Betrayed spouse:


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## Skookaroo (Jul 12, 2021)

Kput said:


> My wife went from very hd to ld following childbirth which I am far from happy about.
> 
> I nearly always have to instigate now so following an afternoon session a couple of years ago I said to her "you don't seem to get much from sex anymore and she replied " I get my pleasure from seeing you happy and that makes me happy" I asked so not from sex itself she then realised where this was going and tried to backtrack a bit.
> 
> ...


What bothers me about this post is that you’re more concerned about the loss of your great sex life rather than the well-being of your wife, who, to me, is very obviously struggling, but is still trying to please you. She sounds like an amazing woman to me. Do you understand what a woman goes through when she has a child? Do you parent just as much as she does so she has time to be a woman rather than just a mom? Don’t you think she might be grieving her sex drive too? I’m bothered.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Sorry but this will be a bit long.

I was going to let this thread die death but something has happened and I would ask for you good people's input.

A bit of background information, I am a team leader in charge of seven service engineers carrying out repairs and maintenance of electronic security systems and things like car park barriers, my job involves some paperwork but mostly in the field.

Tuesday evening my phone rang and it was my workmate and friend Dave, Dave is a womaniser and has serial affairs, he informs me that last Saturday he had arranged to meet his latest ow at a pub and was running late and saw the ow being frog marched towards the pub by a man and saw them enter the pub. His burner phone starts ringing he does not answer and leaves the area, he is left a message by the ow husband full of threats.

Dave asks me to change his service patch as he thinks he saw the ow on Tuesday morning and he wants to avoid her.

After some banter and piss taking I agree to sort it out for him, I call another of my team and he agrees to swap patches, more piss taking about Dave, sorted.

my wife has listened to all of this and asks me what is going on so I gave her the full story about Dave and his antics and how he is a real charmer and is always being hit on at work. She asks me if it happens to me and I said yes but unlike Dave I don't act on them, she wants examples and I give her some, conversation comes to an end.

Wednesday things normal, Thursday evening we go to bed, and here is when things get strange, I am I bed when she comes from the bathroom wearing really sexy panties and hold up stockings tells me to lay back and for the first time in years gives me an all the way but (normally they are short duration and not to completion). Of course I am delighted and decide not to ask why but enjoy the moment, next I am told not to do any weekend overtime and to get some Red bull and Viagra as I am going to need it.

IF you have read this far thank you.

I think this is some weird version of hysterical bonding either that or she has been reading my posts which is entirely possible as I leave my phone laying about and sometimes still logged into TAM.

your insights please and do you think the situation will last.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Kput said:


> and do you think the situation will last.


No. But enjoy these few days....


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Thing is IA if things go back to "normal" after this I don't think I will take it very well, better it had not happened.

Don't want to spoil it by questioning her motives.


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## David60525 (Oct 5, 2021)

Kput said:


> My wife went from very hd to ld following childbirth which I am far from happy about.
> 
> I nearly always have to instigate now so following an afternoon session a couple of years ago I said to her "you don't seem to get much from sex anymore and she replied " I get my pleasure from seeing you happy and that makes me happy" I asked so not from sex itself she then realised where this was going and tried to backtrack a bit.
> 
> ...


Hello,
Men show love and get love among other things
From sex with our s.o.. it is the way we connect with our partner, wife, 
It's either put out or get out if marriage therespy and negotiation of needs being met. Sex less than 2 x a week, baring medical problem is a set up for disaster. No sex and sex games will create hatred and violence, self loathing of her and self.
Pay child support and get out. Get sex from a woman who it the wall. They are wanting.
Don't get married again


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Kput said:


> your insights please and do you think the situation will last.


The fact that other women are interested in you enhances her interest in you. You became more attractive to her. Some turf protection as well, wanting to let you recall what you have at home. Probably mostly unconscious on her part.

How long does it last? Who knows. But probably not all that long. Life has tendency to revert to the mean pretty quickly. Unfortunately she is creating unrealistic expectations in your mind.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Rus, I think you right, until she became aware of Dave's antics and the fact that I visit offices, warehouses, factories and shops on a constant basis with possible opportunities to cheat she was unconcerned.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Dave is also someone I play an occasional round of golf with and my team has beer and curry nights a few times a year might have set her thinking.

If it starts to die off I should start acting in a suspect manner 😀


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

It won't last. Give it a few days, maybe a week.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*Moderator Warning:- *Please quit the threadjacking.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Who me ?????


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Kput said:


> Who me ?????


Can't jack your own thread. 


What you have experienced is called preselection. Women tend to be drawn to men that are attractive to other women. The logic is, if those other women want you then there must be something desirable about you. You look more attractive when other women are paying attention to you. 

Have you ever read The Married Man Sex Life Primer? If not, I suggest that you do.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Kput said:


> Dave is also someone I play an occasional round of golf with and my team has beer and curry nights a few times a year might have set her thinking.
> 
> If it starts to die off I should start acting in a suspect manner 😀


Got to wonder about your tolerance for Dave’s way of life. If you have firm boundaries in your marriage, how are you able to rationalize it’s ok for Dave? Are you talking the walk? It’s possible Dave is changing your perceptions of your wife’s actions, that you’re seeing things through a distorted lens. Or the opposite. But have you acknowledged to yourself, rationalized, the hypocrisy here?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Kput said:


> Thing is IA if things go back to "normal" after this I don't think I will take it very well, better it had not happened.
> 
> Don't want to spoil it by questioning her motives.


Hysterical bonding is usually short-lived, but I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.... 

Sorry, if it's a TJ, but the OP is thread-jacking?


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Casual O

I don't "tolerate" Dave because I am neither his wife or his conscience, his boundaries are not my boundaries in my marriage, what I will say about Dave is that he is good at his job, a good friend and willing to go the extra mile for me, our team and our customers. 

Hypocrisy would be if I condemned him yet did the same myself that does not mean I have to approve of his actions of for that matter encourage them.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Kput said:


> Thing is IA if things go back to "normal" after this I don't think I will take it very well, better it had not happened.
> 
> Don't want to spoil it by questioning her motives.


It's not really hysterical bonding per se. But women are attracted to men that other women are attracted to. If they see (in this case figuratively) other women being interested in a guy, then they see him as higher value. 

Finding out that there are shenanigans within your circle and that there are women attracted to you likely caused a bit of a spike in her mojo and her attraction for you and probably did cause a bit of what the PUAs and Red Pillers call 'dread' in which she realised she needed to bump up her girl game a bit so that she doesn't get left behind. 

Unfortunately this will be temporary and things will return to normal,,,,,, because that is what normal is. 

These things do go back and forth over time. You may be having some enthusiastic sex for awhile, but in time, possibly as short as a week or two, things will settle back down into a baseline routine. Once she feels safe and secure in the relationship, it will go back to maintenance sex. 

Now don't take that as meaning that you should start doing things to make her think you are going to run off with the 23 year old receptionist. That will backfire and blow up in your face. 

But the lesson here is that you as a couple need to be getting out and doing other things and having fun on date nights and get aways and introducing other things into your sexual dynamics and repertoire.


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

I am likely many, many years older than you - and a woman - married 30+ years. From our standpoint at this juncture, I would like to offer you some perspective. 

Both women and men ebb and tide with their sexual propensities throughout a marriage. It is natural and normal. 

Over the years, we have weathered a lot of marital issues. Regarding sex, though, there's a lot going on with each partner with regards to sex. Having children and a lot greater stressful things to think about, it can deeply effect a woman's sex life. People's sex life can change. It could be that both of you are at a change point where you have to stop expecting everything to be like it was before - and look at the way things are now - in order to navigate to a new place for both of you. 

Don't be mad because of me saying this - I know, I know how it feels when your sex life looks like it's getting cut into - and I'm a woman. You're going along and your sex life is this huge awesome part of your relationship and BOOM, something falls in the middle of that and shakes it up. It's damn scary to think you are facing the rest of your life with a truncated sex life. It's such a big part of a lot of adults' lives. I get it. 



I'm sorry to bring this up - because it probably looks far in the future for you. But I couldn't help but want to post this since, maybe, it will give you some perspective about how to approach the present sex atmosphere you are having with your wife. How would it effect your viewpoint and behavior if you realize that you could be in the opposite position one day? Where YOUR sex drive was hit with issues you had to grapple with while your wife was, like, "Hey, are we going to stop having sex now?" If you were in this position, would you expect your wife to be understanding, helpful, kind - and find ways to be affectionate to help you through your ebbing period of sexual drive? Would you, without having an orgasm yourself, be willing to sexually satisfy your wife and tell her that you want to do this because giving her pleasure was pleasurable to you? 

This is a real situation that is really happening in a different relationship (ours)



I know what it is like to not be able to have sex for some periods of time - when I had hip replacement. But I still found ways to pleasure my husband and I really cared about doing that. _It gave me pleasure to give him pleasure._ 

I feel like my husband is of a mindset and a generation that has not been raised the same way that women have been raised - to please their man. It's been a rough road to face - for both of us. He's unaccustomed to having a low sex drive - but he's centered around how HE feels - and doesn't think about that I would want to interact sexually. 

I swear I'm not weird - but I have found this switch of mindsets both frustrating - and fascinating. I'm like, Oh wow, nothing prepared us for this. I'm in the position of needing to be patient and understanding while harboring unmet sexual urges - while he is navigating even just a modicum of how to be physically affectionate since that is something he equated with both of us having full on sex. 

I have to initiate holding hands, petting him, hugging him, spooning in bed as we sleep. I have to be the initiator all the time - which is a weird position for me - I feel kind of...I don't know...kind of uncomfortable being so overt, like I'm a perv or something. I'm not saying that is right - it's just how this situation is making me feel. Like I'm being insensitive to his mental and physical state of anxiety. I don't have solutions necessarily, I'm just sharing that I get what you are feeling - but only because I've been in both your wife's position and now, sort of the initiator position, it has really thrown me for a loop. 

This has made both my husband and I understand more the position of the other sexually. It's new territory. But we have a strong relationship - and I would never abandon him or step out on him over this.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Rus47 said:


> The fact that other women are interested in you enhances her interest in you. You became more attractive to her.


That’s it.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Kput said:


> If it starts to die off I should start acting in a suspect manner 😀


A really really bad idea that will in no way serve you well. Just imagine if the roles were reversed what your response would be.

If you dress and groom well your wife will notice. And when the two of you are out together she will notice other women glance at you, (which they will).


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Can't jack your own thread.
> 
> 
> What you have experienced is called preselection. Women tend to be drawn to men that are attractive to other women. The logic is, if those other women want you then there must be something desirable about you. You look more attractive when other women are paying attention to you.


That is oddly true. ☺


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## curiouswife4 (Oct 15, 2019)

241happyhour said:


> I’m 50 and my wife is in her late 40’s. We’ve been married 20+ years. We do a couple of things that keep it interesting. We go on dates with drinks and that always leads to sex. We also have a duffel bag of toys that come in pretty handy. With those couple of things being said my wife got on testosterone pellets about 18 months ago due to hormone problems. That has increased her libido tremendously and now she initiates as much as I do. The pellets have been a game-changer.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I never heard of the one above - worth trying out. 

Also

Perhaps read more on other threads as well. Many good insights. 









Sex in a long term marriage


She will sit on my lap on the sofa. she will do with me anything anywhere except when it comes to sex. She kisses me anywhere including in public. It is just sex she is only comfortable in our bed. Nothing wrong with that. Next time you are fooling around while she is on your lap, pick her up...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com


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## curiouswife4 (Oct 15, 2019)

I went through 3 patches of where your wife is. From hot college wife, sex like a pro every which way, to children and work - always tired. Sex dwindled. Husband put his foot down and woke me up. We fixed things as best we could. I went through the motions as your wife did. Very happy to please my man but never even thought about sex otherwise. As the kids became more independent, life begin to return and I slowly became more proactive. My libido didn't return to my college day level but it was good. My husband supplemented sexually in between of which I gladly encouraged. We eventually discovered more creative sex that lasted longer for him as do my orgasms and also livened my interest. Everything was heading to the road of awesome. Then grief struck. My husband was very sweet, kind, and patient but once again had to finally press me into getting help. Once I did and understood what was going on, how to walk through it, I healed. That took years to get completely over but there were glimmers more and more. We are now as active as ever sexually with so many new things to do. We haven't had to add any medicines but put effort into our marriage. Every area has improved. The harder we work on fitness and health, the more I want my man. The more we do together as a couple, the more I want my man. The more adventurous we go the more we both want. All that combines for more love making. We have experimented, explored, learned, grown, shared, discussed, trained, taught, and helped each other in every way we know how. We reach out to others we we do not have the answer, we research, we never give up. There is always a solution for every situation. For us it is hard work. I worked hard at many things in my life except my marriage (here and there) missing out on many wonders. For many years now that has not happened and I am vigilant to fight for my marriage and my man. Our children see it, they see what it takes, and remember how it can be without the effort. Hopefully it will be passed down. There are loads of wonderful insights throughout many posts on this site, you only have to look for them. And yes you will have to wade through a lot of poo to do it. It is sad to see so many unhappy people. It's a wonderful world of our own making. The question is what are you making of it?


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Can't jack your own thread.


Not in No Nut November, anyway. j/k


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Weekend was good but it seemed somehow forced on my wife's part.

Some form of hysterical sex as some have advised.


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