# Success Stories



## Niceguynomore (Feb 3, 2014)

I wonder if anyone has any success in turning his/her sex life around. At this point, I don't think my LD wife would get any better. I have been following TAM for a few years, but have not seen a case of success yet.

Is this forum "the blind leading the blind"?


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

I think GettingIt turned her situation around.

I believe Marduk and Farsidejunky (who are both men) have improved their situations a lot.

Most cases seem to result in divorce or decades of marital misery though.

Regarding "blind leading the blind"

I think there are a lot of people here caught in the HD/LD dynamic and are desperately searching for answers. Some I think are willing to be objective enough to make progress. Most are too caught up in their own suffering or have spouses that are unreasonable.

I think there are also a lot of other people here who have never been in a HD/LD dynamic and think that it could never happen to them because they do everything great. Their attitude seems to be, if only you were more like me, this would never happen to you.

There is some truth in this perspective for some, but others just are lucky and they don't know the difference.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

I would say I have a success story.
I've been married 24 years to an LD woman.
I started the transformation about 2 years ago. Read a bunch of books and then posted and researched for awhile on a couple different web sites and then settled here late last year.

My wife is the typical "good girl". Swears she has no fantasies and is leery of trying anything new. Frequency had dropped to once every couple weeks or so, sometimes more but ALWAYS starfish and uninspiring. 

I lost 50 pounds
Got new clothes
Got a new attitude. I struggled with anger and just walked around pissy all day.
Viagra
Testosterone cream
Really keep trying to make sex interesting for both of us.
I take my time, or I rip her clothes off. I keep mixing it up and do whatever it takes to make certain she has the best O possible.

Results,
Sex is now GREAT and usually around twice a week.
Had the best blowjob of my life last week, facial and all.
Wife is slowly exploring new things and is happy with our sex life.
Not so long ago after a great orgasm she told me...."how can sex be this good after 23 years.'
Just late last night after a long day and her still bleeding a little after her period she still wanted to have sex and told me "don't worry, I'll just relax and let you work your magic."

Not that she just sits there. She does however enjoy it, and apparently I'm doing something right if she calls it "magic."

Don't get me wrong, it's a long difficult process and it's ongoing. I will never really be finished. If I stop improving, inevitably the sex will either slow down or the quality will deteriorate. It's a state of mind, and it's a way of life that has to be embraced.

Difficult, yet VERY rewarding.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

UMP that is awesome.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Amplexor said:


> Any one that knows my story will recall that my wife and I were in a very bad place a few years back, hit bottom, damn near divorced but journeyed to a very long but successful recovery. We are very strong as a couple today, committed and loving.
> 
> However our sexual drives are still a mismatch. We deal with the problem better than we used to but had made little progress. I understand my wife is in menopause which has lowered her previously high-drive. With menopause has come an increase in weight lowering her self esteem. And her job is very stressful leaving her exhausted at the end of the day. I am very empathetic to her feelings on all three but there are two people in the marriage.
> 
> A few months ago we had "that talk" again and again it took a familiar path. Stress, weight, drive... With empathy and respect I told her I understood all those reasons but that quite frankly she has done nothing to try and address them and that I didn't see this ever improving much over where it was today. I told we were going to try a different path this time. "For the next 60 days, I want you to submit yourself to me when I want sexual intimacy." My wife is extremely strong willed and independent of soul. Her icie blues flashed for a moment then she took her stare off of me, thought about it and responded, "That's not an unreasonable request." Initially she found it a bit awkward ("knowing she had to") but we settled into a very good pattern. My wife does enjoy sex when we get started so she was not being "dutiful" during it. Keep in mind, I am in my mid 50s so I'm not swinging wood five times a day any more. 2 or 3 times a week is more than sufficient for me. It put us in a good rhythm that has continued on passed the initial period. She has also begun to work out regularly and watching her diet more closely. When we went though our R one of the things we did was rebuild the foundation of the relationship and two areas we became much more successful at then we had been previously were communication and empathy. Both had a strong part in helping us improve this area of the marriage.


I originally posed this in July 2012. Since then, nothing has change in our sex life. I would estimate that the number of times she has declined sex to be less than 10 over the passed 3 years. 

It was turned around by the story above. It was also turned around because my wife finally understood that sexual intimacy was a need of mine and she wanted me to be happy. Intimacy for me and many men results in closer emotional bonding. If the intimacy stops, the bonds loosen and we begin to drift apart. That was one of the primary reasons the marriage got into trouble in the first place. 

It should be noted that this approach worked very will for us but would not fit in many situations. My wife and I were in a very good place in almost all aspects of our relationship with each other. Often, when a spouse retreats sexually there are underlying reasons and it is not just LD. Resentment, rug swept issues, problems in the relationship in general. If these are not addressed first then my approach will likely not have much impact. In fact, it could back fire. 

Assess your marriage and look at the problem areas. Agree on what areas need to be addressed including your sex life. Read The Five Love Languages and make sure you understand each others language. Make the marriage happier and stronger and the sex life will likely improve.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Anon1111 said:


> UMP that is awesome.


It's not like we were having sex once a year. However, it was pretty bad. It was like her changing my oil every 3,000 miles. It felt like a chore she had to do and it REALLY got my attention. I just woke up one day and said "WTF is going on and WHY is this happening?"

I believe my wife (and probably others) are submissive. I say "submissive" because she reacts to me. In other words, if my appearance or my way of interacting with her and others produces X if I can change myself maybe I can produce Y.

If I put sludge in my car as a replacement for quality synthetic oil I cannot expect my car to run at it's best or even run at all.
If you put sh$t in you're going to get sh$t out.

I consider myself the leader in my family and I simply dropped the ball. The fault OR the success lies in MY lap.

Granted, some here have what they consider hopeless cases and are trying with little to no results. As Sam Kinison might have said "what are you gunna do, give sheep the vote?" No, you just keep trying.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Mine is still a work in progress, but I'd consider it to be a success compared to where we were a couple of years ago.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Fozzy said:


> Mine is still a work in progress, but I'd consider it to be a success compared to where we were a couple of years ago.


It will ALWAYS be a work in progress, for ALL of us. I'm glad things are better for you.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

I think part of the problem I had and many men have is that once you get married, in a way, you feel that you're done.
Let me explain. 

Before marriage, I was only interested in a couple things. Sex and career. Once I found the "one" it's as if I checked that off the list and expected everything to always stay the same.
It's almost as if I thought that just because I married this person I was now entitled to great sex for the rest of my life. As if I "owned" this person.

Nothing could be farther from the truth. I don't own ANYONE and I am not entitled to ANYTHING from my wife. I have to EARN everything. There is no free lunch, even in marriage.


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## Giro flee (Mar 12, 2013)

My husband and I are a success. We had problems with good girl syndrome, shame, resentment, responsive vs./spontaneous drive, entitlement, differing views and expectations of marriage, passive aggressiveness, and more!

We went through counseling and worked on all of it. It was a ton of work. We are both now very happy and content in all aspects of our relationship.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

Amplexor said:


> I originally posed this in July 2012. Since then, nothing has change in our sex life. I would estimate that the number of times she has declined sex to be less than 10 over the passed 3 years.
> 
> It was turned around by the story above. It was also turned around because my wife finally understood that sexual intimacy was a need of mine and she wanted me to be happy. Intimacy for me and many men results in closer emotional bonding. If the intimacy stops, the bonds loosen and we begin to drift apart. That was one of the primary reasons the marriage got into trouble in the first place.
> 
> ...


I am a success. My situation is very similar to Amps. The lack of sex and duty sex was really a symptom and when the real problems were addressed the sex life returned.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Let me rag on another user here for a moment. One poster in particular posts often about his daily sexcapades, but yet he still complains that it is not enough. Sometimes I wake up at night absolutely soaked in sweat fearing for his wife as to what would happen if he finally got everything he wanted to the point he would finally call it a success story. She would probably have to have laser treatments to remove all her pubic hair, dowse herself in coconut oil, have sex multiple times a day, and aggressively pursue ideas of sexual novelty to a point that it is life threatening in order to make him happy. 

So in the name of some people never being "successful," perhaps we all simply need to learn to be thankful for what we have! TAM has helped me with that.

Sincerely, 
Badsanta


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## Brandy905 (Apr 3, 2014)

I came here a little over a year ago trying to figure out what was going on with me. Come to find out it was peri-menopause. I wouldn't say I was LD, but up until that point I wasn't HD either. I suffer from the good girl syndrome too. Coming here was the best thing I could have done for my marriage. My drive had drastically increased, but by coming here, I found out that a lot of my beliefs were false. I came to realize how men think and feel, which has helped me more than you could imagine. For a little while I felt so bad for "wasting" over 25 years, but I am just glad I am no longer wasting time. I have been educated beyond belief because of TAM and now after 27 years of marriage, we are trying new things that I come across and our sex life has never been better.

Have you thought about having your wife coming here??


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

My sexless marriage turned around at least from the sex perspective. I now get it pretty often and initiated mostly by her. If there's one thing that holds me back at this point it's my own resentment not allowing me to just accept a good thing and go with it.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

UMP said:


> I would say I have a success story.
> I've been married 24 years to an LD woman.
> I started the transformation about 2 years ago. Read a bunch of books and then posted and researched for awhile on a couple different web sites and then settled here late last year.
> 
> ...


This is basically akin to the 350+ pound man who loses 150+ pounds, gets down to 10% bodyfat or less and looks like an Adonis.

Rare? Very. 
Possible? Unlikely.
Worth the effort? Absolutely. 

Congratulations dude.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Niceguynomore said:


> I wonder if anyone has any success in turning his/her sex life around. At this point, I don't think my LD wife would get any better. I have been following TAM for a few years, but have not seen a case of success yet.
> 
> Is this forum "the blind leading the blind"?


I was in a sex starved marriage, where sex happened every few months and then it sometimes involved a bitter fight or humiliation when I was most vulnerable. 

After leading tons of books on relationships, I got a life and started taking responsibility for myself and my happiness. I lost a lot of weight, dressed better, forgave my wife. Most of all I figured out with the help of Chapman's 5 Languages of Love how to finally make my wife feel loved in her love languages. We also did sex therapist counseling and did a Gottman weekend as part of the process to heal our marriage.

I came very close to divorcing my LD wife, because of the lack of intimacy and care. I decided that I deserved to be in a loving relationship with a woman who loved me. The sex therapist we had ultimately asked my wife if she felt that her having no sex with me would result in my divorcing her. My wife after lots of attempts to avoide the question ultimately was forces to admit yes it would result in divorce. The therapist asked me if I had thought of divorce. I said yes and that I had made a promise to myself that I would be in a loving relationship by a certain birthday, with my wife or after a divorce and with some woman I had yet to meet. The therapist then told my wife that the choice and blame for continuing or ending her marriage was totally within the control of my wife and either by action or inaction she would need to live with the obvious consequences.

We now have sex twice a week and work hard at trying to make each other happy and meet each other's needs. My wife had all the good girl's don't, body self images issues, etc. My wife still does, but at least she puts effort into our relationship and avoids hurting me. 

So yes, there can be changes.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> My sexless marriage turned around at least from the sex perspective. I now get it pretty often and initiated mostly by her. If there's one thing that holds me back at this point it's my own resentment not allowing me to just accept a good thing and go with it.


Do you have a WOM mega thread?

I'd be curious to see your progress.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

UMP said:


> It's almost as if I thought that just because I married this person I was now entitled to great sex for the rest of my life. As if I "owned" this person.
> 
> Nothing could be farther from the truth. I don't own ANYONE and I am not entitled to ANYTHING from my wife. I have to EARN everything. There is no free lunch, even in marriage.


Yeah, this isn't universal. I believe one of the basic entitlements in a marriage for both parties is good, satisfying, regular sex. We agreed to forsake all others for the sake of one, not for the possibility of sex. If the fidelity is an entitlement, than so is the sex with one's spouse; is a symbolic relationship. Few marry with the expectation of being faithful to celibacy. 

Thankfully my wife and me are on the exact same page, which is the only way that you can work out that POV. We are not allowed to have a sexless marriage, that would be a blatant violation of our vows. Willful, chronic sexual abandonment would be grounds for divorce.

Perhaps if more people agreed BEFORE marriage that martial sex was a right and an entitlement there could be less misunderstanding, and more satisfying sex. Or premarital separations for people who don't agree on this basic view.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

UMP said:


> I think part of the problem I had and many men have is that once you get married, in a way, you feel that you're done.
> Let me explain.
> 
> Before marriage, I was only interested in a couple things. Sex and career. Once I found the "one" it's as if I checked that off the list and expected everything to always stay the same.
> ...


Awww, UMP. Thanks for sharing this. It is very self-aware and evolved to be able to see this in retrospect. There is the female equivalent to these kinds of errors of assumption too, of course. But it is really great you are to the point where you see your part in the past issues.

I have not been with a man who made those assumptions, but it is rather common. (as it is common for women to make false assumptions)


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Anon1111 said:


> Do you have a WOM mega thread?
> 
> I'd be curious to see your progress.


I have had threads over the last couple years, mostly deleted. There's one that is still around: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/119498-chemistry-problems.html but I don't update it.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I have had threads over the last couple years, mostly deleted. There's one that is still around: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/119498-chemistry-problems.html but I don't update it.


How did you manage to turn things around while still holding on to your resentment? 

For me, resentment has been one of my biggest hurdles, and we weren't able to make any decent progress until I started letting go of some of it.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

jaquen said:


> Yeah, this isn't universal. I believe one of the basic entitlements in a marriage for both parties is *good, satisfying,* regular sex.
> 
> Perhaps if more people agreed BEFORE marriage that martial sex was a right and an entitlement there could be less misunderstanding, and more satisfying sex. Or premarital separations for people who don't agree on this basic view.


And if it is not good and satysfying for both partners, that's when problems begin. And this is what UMP addressed - his wife was not satisfied with him, and in consequence, wiht their sex. He had shown great insight to understand that dynamic and change it. 

I think it is easy to say, when you are in sexually balanced relationship.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

WandaJ said:


> And if it is not good and satysfying for both partners, that's when problems begin. And this is what UMP addressed - his wife was not satisfied with him, and in consequence, wiht their sex. He had shown great insight to understand that dynamic and change it.
> 
> I think it is easy to say, when you are in sexually balanced relationship.


That post is addressing the notion that sex within marriage is not an entitlement.

I disagree. I didn't suggest my perspective makes one immune to sexual issues in a marriage, or that it was easy to maintain.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Fozzy said:


> How did you manage to turn things around while still holding on to your resentment?
> 
> For me, resentment has been one of my biggest hurdles, and we weren't able to make any decent progress until I started letting go of some of it.


Well, it's really just the sex that's turned around. I can't claim that the relationship is completely turned around.


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## EntirelyDifferent (Nov 30, 2012)

I consider my relationship to be a success. My SO and I are at polar opposite ends of sexual drive, but we've managed to make it work.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

I'm pleasantly surprised at all the success stories so far.
I wasn't expecting this many.
I bet there are more.

should be very encouraging to the people desperate for change out there. even if the success/failure ratio is 100:1, it's still reason for attainable hope. Congrats to all the 'successors'.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Well, it's really just the sex that's turned around. I can't claim that the relationship is completely turned around.


What the heck, WOM, why don't you try to purge the resentment? It won't go away on its own--I tried for years. Ultimately it took therapy to get rid of it and to learn how to to let it take root again. 

Give it a try.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Neuklas and Mem are also notable success stories.

One thing I will say that I've noticed however---it seems like men have had a better run of turning things around with a LD wife than women have had with turning things around with an LD husband.

I honestly can't recall any TAM stories where a HD woman has managed to salvage things with a husband who chronically rejects or avoids.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Well, it's really just the sex that's turned around. I can't claim that the relationship is completely turned around.


Has the turn around of the sex life improved the overall relationship in any significant way?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

jaquen said:


> Has the turn around of the sex life improved the overall relationship in any significant way?


It's very hard to tell. I mean, I live it every day so it's hard to measure progress. 

Example: last night I had to go to a meeting for the kids' bicycle race team. When I went to work in the morning it was a sunny day (I ride a motorcycle to work every day). By 5PM it was pouring down rain. My wife had my oldest son drive into town and drop off my rain gear so I wouldn't get soaked going home. That was very thoughtful and would have never happened the first 22 years of our marriage. Quite the opposite, she would have told me it was my own damn fault and she didn't want to hear me complain. I'll count that as a measurable improvement, and it was definitely something I appreciated.

On the other hand, I've mentioned to her a dozen times over the last 2 years that she's never given me a compliment. Not one. Not when I was discharged from the service, not when I graduated, not when I got a new job or passed the CPA exam, not when I made partner, not ever. She still hasn't.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

It depends on what you're dealing with.The cases that turned it around for the most part required work from both parties. Considerable work, often therapy, etc.

If your partner thinks they're ok and won't work with you... The outcome could be different.


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## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

I have a success story as well. My original thread - http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/204514-what-do-i-do-am-i-unreasonable.html

With help from TAM members, this book - Official Site for Shannon Ethridge Ministries The Sexually Confident Wife - Official Site for Shannon Ethridge Ministries

This website - The Forgiven Wife - Learning to Dance with Desire and the 5 Love Languages book things are a lot better.

It did take me telling my wife that we would either start having more sex or we would divorce before she started to see how her past abuse was affecting our marriage. It took her about 2 months before she started reading the Sexually Confident wife book. Once she did, it helped her to work thru some issues.

I told her that I married her because I wanted to experience all parts of intimacy with her. I told her I wanted her to be "present and participate".

I also lost 40 pounds, and started working on myself. I recently managed to get rid the resentment.

Last week, I was working on laptop & my wife walked into the room nude & shook her breasts in my face. :smthumbup:

She has done a lot of work facing her past & I have thanked her for that several times.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

FrazzledSadHusband said:


> *It did take me telling my wife that we would either start having more sex or we would divorce* before she started to see how her past abuse was affecting our marriage. It took her about 2 months before she started reading the Sexually Confident wife book. Once she did, it helped her to work thru some issues.



Every success story I've ever heard of included the bolded part.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Personal said:


> I hope you reach a point where you can let the resentment go.


There is such a thing as too little too late. We could be having sex four times a day 7 days a week, and it still will not alleviate my long term concerns with my wife. 

At 55, with retirement etc looming, a 'success story' is for her to understand the financial and mental picture I would like to see in a decade when I retire. Spreadin' em is secondary to the story. 

Unfortunately, sex is the greatest communication tool since Outlook, and its lack, or mitigation to chore status also reduces the communication bandwidth noticeably. Without communication, longer term problems that are no-brainers to most people become impossible to contemplate.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

FW,

Every guy who runs away from THIS one theme - fails. 

Every single one. They ALL want the same thing: A drastically improved marriage without taking a risk. 

And they tend to have a similar communication style. 

For instance they often write two things which cannot BOTH be true: 
1. Other than sex, our marriage is perfect
AND
2. I have no idea why my wife won't have sex with me

I have a very extreme view of marital sex. Your spouse doesn't owe you ANY. That's right. Zip. Zero. Nada. 

They DO owe you one thing though - and that's the truth. 

But even there - you have to demonstrate that you WANT the truth. 

The formula, if there is one, sort of looks like this: 
- Show that you embrace the truth, whatever it is, throughout every part of your marriage. Giving and taking it. 
- Insist on getting clarity as to WHY your PARTNER avoids sex with you

But from the get go - this means being honest with yourself. And that means accepting the possibility that your spouse has come to view - the core of what makes you, you - as sexually unattractive. 

And that's not fixable. And many folks seem to prefer the misery of frequent rejection and sexlessness to taking the chance of hearing THAT. 





Faithful Wife said:


> Every success story I've ever heard of included the bolded part.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Glad to hear the physical part is improved.

How often does your wife compliment:
- your kids
- her friends
- other folks she is close to




QUOTE=WorkingOnMe;12443858]It's very hard to tell. I mean, I live it every day so it's hard to measure progress. 

Example: last night I had to go to a meeting for the kids' bicycle race team. When I went to work in the morning it was a sunny day (I ride a motorcycle to work every day). By 5PM it was pouring down rain. My wife had my oldest son drive into town and drop off my rain gear so I wouldn't get soaked going home. That was very thoughtful and would have never happened the first 22 years of our marriage. Quite the opposite, she would have told me it was my own damn fault and she didn't want to hear me complain. I'll count that as a measurable improvement, and it was definitely something I appreciated.

On the other hand, I've mentioned to her a dozen times over the last 2 years that she's never given me a compliment. Not one. Not when I was discharged from the service, not when I graduated, not when I got a new job or passed the CPA exam, not when I made partner, not ever. She still hasn't.[/QUOTE]


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## another shot (Apr 14, 2015)

Success story here 

16 years started red hot and she went LD because I took her for granted and tried to manipulate a smart woman too often. She was not able to communicate her needs and pain at the time until it was almost too late. Eventually it blew out and she let me know how bad it was. 

I researched all the various concepts by hitting the books, net, etc and learned about what needed to happen and turned it around. 

All that was missing with our marriage was investing in attention, affection and appreciation on my end and being direct and honest with communication on her end. 

We were lucky it worked because I know often it doesn't.

Now that we know what we are doing it keeps improving and I am excited about the future again instead of dreading every hour of it.

I am a firm believer NOW that marriage is a process, not an event. I also believe we are lucky because our compatibility is there if we invest effort and energy into having an awesome marriage. 

Many couples, it seems, would not be able to fix their marriage like we did because there is either 

1. Incompatibility issue that can not be overcome
2. Inability to comprehend and apply, or willingness to seek out the knowledge needed to fix

I count our blessing every day that we are able to comprehend, apply and were able to seek out what had to happen to dix it. Some couples are too overwhelmed or burned out with resentment to make that comeback or they make a decision the road is too long or the risk of failure too great.

I wish I could help everyone fi their marriage but some just don't have the vital ingredients to make it happen.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

jaquen said:


> Yeah, this isn't universal. I believe one of the basic entitlements in a marriage for both parties is good, satisfying, regular sex. We agreed to forsake all others for the sake of one, not for the possibility of sex. If the fidelity is an entitlement, than so is the sex with one's spouse; is a symbolic relationship. Few marry with the expectation of being faithful to celibacy.
> 
> Thankfully my wife and me are on the exact same page, which is the only way that you can work out that POV. We are not allowed to have a sexless marriage, that would be a blatant violation of our vows. Willful, chronic sexual abandonment would be grounds for divorce.
> 
> Perhaps if more people agreed BEFORE marriage that martial sex was a right and an entitlement there could be less misunderstanding, and more satisfying sex. Or premarital separations for people who don't agree on this basic view.


You may indeed say that marriage entitles one to fidelity, and basic sex. However, real life just does not work that way. You can sign papers, say "I do" in front of God, family and friends, but once the door closes, all bets are off.

Let me use my sister in laws marriage as an example. They have been married for 30 years. 15 years ago, the husband decides he is no longer going to work. It's his time to "take it easy." He starts taking pain pills, then methadone to get off the pain pills, Adderol, etc. He refuses to work, is drugged out of his mind 24/7, will not fix ANYTHING around the house. He does absolutely nothing but take drugs, sit and watch tv. His wife works her fingers to the bone just to keep their head above water. Is this man entitled to ANYTHING regarding marriage? 15 years ago he was perfectly healthy yet decided to "take it easy." As you may have imagined, she just now left him. He has no where to live (stays at his mothers house), still will not work and is hooked on who knows what kind of drug and blames everything on his soon to be xwife.

I say he caused his own demise and is not entitled to his wifes respect or love. On paper, maybe she is obligated. In real life, ain't gunna happen.

Our situations on TAM are similar but to a MUCH, MUCH lesser degree. Everything is cause and effect in life. If I come home pissed off and project that anger on my wife and family, guess what the result will be? High probability of no sex and standoffish family members. Ain't no free lunch, no entitled lunch EVER, ANYWHERE, ANYHOW.

You reap what you sow.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Inflicting revenge over lack of marital success in a divorce situation is marginally less painful than doing nothing about it. 

She may not comprehend it in the short term but long term it will be painfully obvious, and way too late.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I don't actually think marriage obligates us to anything. That's why there is such a thing as divorce. I think that everything we do for our spouses is essentially a gift. You may feel obligated, but each of us have the freedom to walk out the door and never return if we want to. So any obligations you have are the ones you have assigned to yourself.

Sex has never been an obligation in my mind, either my obligation or his. We do it because we WANT to have sex with each other.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

MEM11363 said:


> But from the get go - this means being honest with yourself. And that means accepting the possibility that your spouse has come to view - the core of what makes you, you - as sexually unattractive.
> 
> [B*]And that's not fixable*[/B]. And many folks seem to prefer the misery of frequent rejection and sexlessness to taking the chance of hearing THAT.


Not impossible.
I truly believe that I was becoming unattractive, to the core, to my wife. I think I was able to suppress some of my true "core" anger issues while I was still dating my wife and into the first couple years of marriage. Once life hits you in the face with a baseball bat, the success of suppressing any hidden "core" elements of your true personality are next to nil. My wife then became unattracted to my core personality trait of being an angry assshole.

In time, I understood this and CHANGED it. Yes, I still screw up once in a while, but every time, it's fewer and far between with increased success.

My point is that EVEN core traits can be changed to re-attract ones spouse.

You may say I'm faking. However, I am not. I truly detest this part of my personality and put every ounce of my soul into not being an angry assshole, including specific prayer daily.

I believe you can become a person your wife can lust after. I really do think it's possible. The advantage everyone has is that you've already convinced them to marry you, so you're one step ahead, as it were.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

UMP-- you are like the clean up hitter with these posts. Very inspiring.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Anon1111 said:


> UMP-- you are like the clean up hitter with these posts. Very inspiring.


That's good because I REALLY sucked at baseball. I am a first generation American and came to this county at 2 years of age. My father had never even SEEN a baseball game. I invented the term "riding the bench." I was so embarrassed, I lied to my father about actually playing. One fine day, I got to play, in practice. The coaches son was pitching. I hit the ball so true, so effortlessly, it was as if the ball was coming out of a cannon. It hit the pitcher (coaches son) square in the forehead and dropped him to the ground as if I had shot him with a .45. He was OUT! 
I never played again, but I sure as hell made an impression.

That's what I call "clean up" 

Edit: I saw the coaches son days later. He had a literal black cone growing out of his forehead. Damn, that must have hurt!


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

UMP,

You are a perfect example of a truth that IRL is very rare. 

With a near infinite amount of self awareness and determination, just about anything is possible. 


QUOTE=UMP;12447186]Not impossible.
I truly believe that I was becoming unattractive, to the core, to my wife. I think I was able to suppress some of my true "core" anger issues while I was still dating my wife and into the first couple years of marriage. Once life hits you in the face with a baseball bat, the success of suppressing any hidden "core" elements of your true personality are next to nil. My wife then became unattracted to my core personality trait of being an angry assshole.

In time, I understood this and CHANGED it. Yes, I still screw up once in a while, but every time, it's fewer and far between with increased success.

My point is that EVEN core traits can be changed to re-attract ones spouse.

You may say I'm faking. However, I am not. I truly detest this part of my personality and put every ounce of my soul into not being an angry assshole, including specific prayer daily.

I believe you can become a person your wife can lust after. I really do think it's possible. The advantage everyone has is that you've already convinced them to marry you, so you're one step ahead, as it were.[/QUOTE]


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

MEM11363 said:


> UMP,
> 
> You are a perfect example of a truth that IRL is very rare.
> 
> With a near infinite amount of self awareness and determination, just about anything is possible.



I look at it this way. I LOVE sex. Sure, I could get sex anywhere, most anytime. If I chose that route, I would inevitably pay a HEAVY, HEAVY price for it. If you do the math, the pleasure is just not worth the cost.
However, I DO have a wife and she is ABLE to have sex. Why not take what I already have and make it just as good or better than what I could get take out?

It's only logical.

BTW: What is IRL ?


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

IRL = In Real Life


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## another shot (Apr 14, 2015)

MEM11363 said:


> I have a very extreme view of marital sex. Your spouse doesn't owe you ANY. That's right. Zip. Zero. Nada. They DO owe you one thing though - and that's the truth. But even there - you have to demonstrate that you WANT the truth.
> 
> The formula, if there is one, sort of looks like this:
> - Show that you embrace the truth, whatever it is, throughout every part of your marriage. Giving and taking it.
> ...


:iagree: except the bolded part and the disagreement is from my own experience. Once I knew the price I had to pay for the parts of me that where costing me the love of my life (wife) I did a very rapid calculation and decided it was time to fix my "core" The choice was easy and so were the changes since they came automatically the instant I made the choice.

There are lip service decisions and then there are those that change you as a person forever that honor other areas of your core so completely the change is nearly instant. There is only a little residue left over that we might call details that need tweaking to finish it the change.



UMP said:


> Not impossible.
> I truly believe that I was becoming unattractive, to the core, to my wife. I think I was able to suppress some of my true "core" issues
> 
> In time, I understood this and CHANGED it.
> ...


:iagree:

Again from my own experience, changing the core is rather easy once a decision is made that you are unwilling to be that any longer because the price is too high to pay and you are unwilling to pay it. 

In the end, perhaps we all do indeed take the path of least resistance where some parts of your core we want to keep are so overpowering the parts of our core that are costing us our lover that the parts of our core cry uncle and cave in to change like an eviction or foreclosure process. The costly pieces simply no longer have the right to stay within your core so they move out and hit the road

I want to drive the point home because I think this may be the most important thread on the forum for everyone suffering from LD/HD sex drive mismatches aka mismatched libidos. 

I wish the thread title was more specific and pray either the OP comes back or the mods improve it so the success story is known by surfers to be "success stories overcoming sex starved marriage" or "success stories fixing LD/HD mismatch" etc so that countless surfers realize there is hope of overcoming the suffering with a specific knowledge, it's skilled application and altering your core to provide the vital ingredients and eliminate the toxins that destroy attraction and love


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

Fozzy said:


> Neuklas and Mem are also notable success stories.
> 
> One thing I will say that I've noticed however---it seems like men have had a better run of turning things around with a LD wife than women have had with turning things around with an LD husband.
> 
> I honestly can't recall any TAM stories where a HD woman has managed to salvage things with a husband who chronically rejects or avoids.


I've noticed that, too. I haven't heard any success stories with the husband being LD. I'm hoping we can be that success story, but who knows. My husband talks about things getting better and doing this or that, but the actions are not there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Anon Pink is a success story, and although I don't think her H would identify as truly LD, the dynamic in their marriage was that she wanted sex, affection, compliments, touching, play, closeness, and he didn't want to do any of those things (even though he may have felt horny or wanted sex, he did not want to step out of his comfort zone to get it).


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

UMP said:


> You may indeed say that marriage entitles one to fidelity, and basic sex. However, real life just does not work that way. You can sign papers, say "I do" in front of God, family and friends, but once the door closes, all bets are off.


It's not a question of "say" but do.

Again, neither my wife or me signed up for a sexless marriage. That was discussed and agreed upon long _before_ marriage. We both view sex as a marital entitlement, just as we do emotional support and sexual fidelity. If issues arise that hinder one, or both, of us from following through of that, short of an accident, or anything else outside of our control, we are obligated to deal with said issue so that marital sex is restored. Sex, for us, is a fundamental right of marriage.

There is no "all bets are off". If my wife cheated on me, the chances are 99% high that I'd divorce. Likewise if I abandoned my wife sexually, willfully, she's free to divorce me according to the vows we made.

If one of us decides to radically altar the vows we made to each other, we are free. 

If I'd said that marriage entitles us to expect monogamy would you find that odd? If not, why does this?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Another,

I read your summarized story. 

For the average guy its way easier to add beta behavior than alpha. In fact, most men who lack alpha traits don't really understand them. It's why they often say: if I have to be an azz to get laid, I'm not interested.






another shot said:


> :iagree: except the bolded part and the disagreement is from my own experience. Once I knew the price I had to pay for the parts of me that where costing me the love of my life (wife) I did a very rapid calculation and decided it was time to fix my "core" The choice was easy and so were the changes since they came automatically the instant I made the choice.
> 
> There are lip service decisions and then there are those that change you as a person forever that honor other areas of your core so completely the change is nearly instant. There is only a little residue left over that we might call details that need tweaking to finish it the change.
> 
> ...


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

UMP said:


> I think part of the problem I had and many men have is that once you get married, in a way, you feel that you're done.
> Let me explain.
> 
> Before marriage, I was only interested in a couple things. Sex and career. Once I found the "one" it's as if I checked that off the list and expected everything to always stay the same.
> ...


Where is the giant heart emoticon?


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> For the average guy its way easier to add beta behavior than alpha. In fact, most men who lack alpha traits don't really understand them. It's why they often say: if I have to be an azz to get laid, I'm not interested.


the alpha vs. beta designation is so difficult to define.

the exact same behaviour could be alpha vs beta depending on the attitude and mindset of the actor.

Very often it seems that men who are of "no mind" and act without calculation are more naturally alpha. The stereotypical dumb high school jock is the example.

If you are more contemplative by nature, it is hard to unlearn how to think and to just act.

It is the feeling of being in the zone in sports. You stop thinking and just do.

You can pretty easily mimic stereotypical alpha behaviors but the mimicry is ultimately beta.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

You can't mimic - the absence of fear. Not really. 

But like with public speaking - you can practice so many times that once you get going - the fear mostly disappears. 




Anon1111 said:


> the alpha vs. beta designation is so difficult to define.
> 
> the exact same behaviour could be alpha vs beta depending on the attitude and mindset of the actor.
> 
> ...


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

jaquen said:


> It's not a question of "say" but do.
> 
> Again, neither my wife or me signed up for a sexless marriage. That was discussed and agreed upon long _before_ marriage. We both view sex as a marital entitlement, just as we do emotional support and sexual fidelity. If issues arise that hinder one, or both, of us from following through of that, short of an accident, or anything else outside of our control, we are obligated to deal with said issue so that marital sex is restored. Sex, for us, is a fundamental right of marriage.
> 
> ...


But that's _your_ marriage. Not every married person has said such things before marriage nor intended them. Some marriages also are not monogamous, for example. Some married people do not assume they are obligated to anything. Some do not assume they are obligated to sex or sexlessness, either one. Some married people feel they are obligated to EVERYTHING their spouse wants. People are different. Your marriage isn't the model for everyone, only for yourself.


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## bravo29 (Sep 7, 2014)

Things have turned around for the good so far (knock on wood). Went from once in a blue moon, to every other day for the past month. Plus she's less passive, willing to try new things to a certain extent.

I'm not sure this will last but so far so good.


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## where_are_we (May 24, 2013)

I turned my situation around too. I wanted to have sex and he never did. Turns out he wanted to have sex with everyone else but me.

He is no longer here = SUCCESS. LOL


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> But that's _your_ marriage.


Well...exactly.

That's exactly what I said in my post that started off this leg of the conversation. Reminding UMP that his idea that nobody is owed anything in marriage isn't a universal rule and that other people's marriages, for example my own, work differently.

Never did I once suggest our model for marriage was a universal model. And clearly it isn't since many of you seem to not feel marital sex is a right or entitlement.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

I don't like the idea that our spouse doesn't 'owe us anything; we have to earn it.'

Turn that around and what we have is "I don't owe my wife anything, she has to earn it".

I believe I do. I owe her my best effort for everything including intimacy. If I owe her that then why doesn't she 'owe' me the same thing. Isn't that what wedding vows are?

I think there is some inherent value the the proposition that she doesn't owe me anything in maybe some practical sense. If I act that way that I have to earn everything from her then it keeps me on my toes and I never let my guard down.
Moreover if I marry a selfish person, she is not going to owe me anything in her mind, so I might as well accept it?

I prefer to say 'we both owe each other EVERYTHING' and I take care of my part to the best of my abilities, and hopefully she reciprocates. If she doesn't? It doesn't change the marriage ideal.


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

I have turned my sex life around quite considerably. I've read NMMNG, MMSLP, hold onto your nuts and my favorite, a book called "Get inside her" by Marni Kinrys. Between this book and the others, I have gone from 1-3 per month to 3-4 times a week. 
The two biggest changes I made were my health and my attitude towards sex. 
I decided to lose weight and workout to improve myself and the benefit was my wife was way more attracted to me physically. Our sex life improved a bit but not immensely. I've lost 2" on my waist, and gained over an inch on my arms. I'm down to a medium t shirt and can wear pants I haven't been able to button up in years. 
The biggest thing was my attitude or should I say my outlook on life in general. I was always taking the negative side of everything, you know, t"he glass is half empty". That all changed on day for me. It was like a 2x4 across the head. I was having a text conversation with my wife and she was being very negative about herself and life in general. I thought to myself, wow! She sounds fvcking pathetic!!! I don't even want her to come home today. 
That's when the lightbulb went on in my head. I realized she probably felt like that about me everyday. I decided right then I had to make a conscious effort to change my attitude/outlook on things. 
With the weight loss and more muscle I was feeling a lot better about myself so I to look at things from a positive perspective. If my wife asked how my day at work was, I would refuse to say I had a bad day. I would just tell her it was awesome!! If I was in a grumpy mood after work, I left it outside the front door before going into the house. 
I believe this is the biggest factor in turning around my/our sex life. My wife now looks for reasons to be WITH me instead of reasons to avoid me. 
If she turns me down for sex I don't let it bother me anymore. I know I'll get it the next day. 
My wife told me I'm a better lay now (50yrs old) than I was when I was 25. Lately I have been able to cum and keep going, which I was never able to do before. I attribute this to a variety of things. My attitude, my better physical condition, and most of all my self esteem. I know my wife wants to have sex with me and it makes me/us more open to trying different things and not just getting it over with. 
The self improvement cannot end, it has to be an ongoing endeavor. My wife has started to follow suit and has started eating healthier, working out and taking 1.5 mile walks with me everyday. 
You can turn around your sex life. Just leave the attitude at the front door.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

jorgegene said:


> I don't like the idea that our spouse doesn't 'owe us anything; we have to earn it.'
> 
> Turn that around and what we have is "I don't owe my wife anything, she has to earn it".
> 
> ...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

TheNub,

*Standing ovation....*

This is a perfect example of what happens when you combine self awareness and determination. 

I love the bit about the walking. That's a HUGE deal. In the modern world it's so easy to get out of walking with your spouse. My knee hurts. I'm tired. Have to get up early. It's cold out. It's hot out. 

So when a spouse is routinely walking with you, it means they unequivocally enjoy your company. 

And while I agree that behavior is more important than fitness....

It's ALSO true that working out is generally a good:
- mood elevator
- confidence builder 
- message that you WANT to be attractive to your spouse






thenub said:


> I have turned my sex life around quite considerably. I've read NMMNG, MMSLP, hold onto your nuts and my favorite, a book called "Get inside her" by Marni Kinrys. Between this book and the others, I have gone from 1-3 per month to 3-4 times a week.
> The two biggest changes I made were my health and my attitude towards sex.
> I decided to lose weight and workout to improve myself and the benefit was my wife was way more attracted to me physically. Our sex life improved a bit but not immensely. I've lost 2" on my waist, and gained over an inch on my arms. I'm down to a medium t shirt and can wear pants I haven't been able to button up in years.
> The biggest thing was my attitude or should I say my outlook on life in general. I was always taking the negative side of everything, you know, t"he glass is half empty". That all changed on day for me. It was like a 2x4 across the head. I was having a text conversation with my wife and she was being very negative about herself and life in general. I thought to myself, wow! She sounds fvcking pathetic!!! I don't even want her to come home today.
> ...


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

MEM11363 said:


> TheNub,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Your right there. I started walking when the weather was -30°c to -40°c. The walks were shorter mind you, but I was determined. I figured if I lost weight and built muscle, my wife would be all over me. Didn't happen. I kept walking everyday no matter what the weather was like. 
Once my wife really noticed my weight loss and the weather was getting a little more bearable, she decided to start walking with me. That was what I had been hoping for. It gave us a chance to talk without being interrupted by the kids and is just a nice way to wind down the day. It's a nice feeling to start walking and have her hook onto my arm and hold tight. 
The biggest thing was the negative attitude I always seemed to have. It still crops up now and then but as soon as I realize it, I'll joke about it and reframe myself. 
Self confidence was another big issue with her even though she never said anything about it. Between the weight loss, the added muscle and getting my diabetes totally under control, my confidence has never been higher. This has made a huge difference in the bedroom. I see now when she looks at me, there is love and passion and she is starting to let loose in the bedroom as well. She is ready to try anything because she knows if it doesn't work out I won't be bothered by it. 
Another thing I think that has helped not only in the bedroom, but in our relationship as as whole is I has taken the lead in things again. I know she has accepted this as she asks me if it's ok to to do or buy things or if the kids can have sleep overs. It used to be if the kids asked me I would always tell them, "ask your mother". Now if they ask, I make the decision. My wife seems very happy with this. 
All of what I have been doing did help our relationship grow stronger. Once SHE decided to let herself believe these weren't just short term (he'll go back to his old self) changes, the SH!t tests became less frequent. That's when things really took off.
I feel you can make all the changes in yourself you want/can, but until your spouse truly believes the changes are real, not much will change.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Great post, thenub. I am happy to see that there are some real successes from modest changes in attitude and behavior. No doubt doing these things have helped keep my relationship so satisfying.

However, I did all the same things - and a lot more - in my prior marriage, and it had no effect. None. It takes two to tango, and I was dancing alone back then, apparently.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

akinaura and I went from once every month (or three) for the first couple years of our marriage to our current pace of one (or three) times a day. 

I would say she initiates roughly half the time. 

Success. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

jorgegene said:


> I don't like the idea that our spouse doesn't 'owe us anything; we have to earn it.'
> 
> Turn that around and what we have is "I don't owe my wife anything, she has to earn it".
> 
> ...


I never said "they have to earn it", I'm not sure anyone else did, either.

What I said was that anything we do give, whether we feel obligated or not, is actually a gift. We can tell ourselves we do these things out of obligation, but that's just a position you have adopted. You could instead tell yourself, like you do, that you owe her everything. Or you can tell yourself like I do, that I choose to do everything I do for him because I want to express my love for him that way. I am under no obligation, yet I choose to do it and since I expect nothing in return (he is not obligated either) then everything I give is a gift. 

My husband may or may not return the gifts. If he doesn't, the chances are that we will not stay in love.

If people feel obligated, this is a choice they are making to feel that way and to phrase it that way, and that's fine, that's all I said though. I never said the spouse has to earn any favors. I just said that no one is obligated in reality, because we all have free will and can all walk out the door at any moment. Obligations we take on are personal choices, not something that anyone can enforce upon you.

The trying to force obligations upon each other is how sex turns into a nasty battle field chore.

I've never felt obligated to have sex ever in my life. If I did feel obligated it would turn my stomach. Yet at the same time, I can't get enough of sex, I love it, and every time my husband has sex with me I consider it a gift from him. If he was obligated, I'd just as soon turn my nose up at it.

When you say you owe it to her, therefore you expect her to owe it to you, you are making this transactional and creating a situation where you feel you are EARNING the right to reciprocated feelings and deeds. But sex can't work that way and remain hot and passionate and all about giving of ourselves. You are basically saying she is obligated, and that is the least sexy thing in the world.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Here's what I love about this. 

Guy sees a problem - likely a multi faceted problem. He has several choices:
1. Complaining to his wife - however nicely - about her lack of desire or her unwillingness to have sex at the frequency he wants.
2. Talking to his wife in terms of it being a mutual problem. In this conversation he acknowledges his role and also points out what he perceives as her contribution to the issue. 
3. Talking to his wife - taking full ownership and telling her his plan - before he does anything. 
4. Identifying his issues, and running the Nike play: just do it

No talk - just focused - determined - action. 

(4) is what a man does. It just is. And starting at -40, well that sends a message eh? 

BTW - I've mentioned this before but it's worth repeating. About 10 years into our marriage M2 nicely asked me to not walk in the door on my cell phone at the end of a workday. Often I would be on my phone when I got home and the call would last a while. 

She asked me one time. And I realized right away that - she was requesting I set the tone for the night when I got home. 

After that, I would walk in, put my briefcase down. Give her a big smile and a long hug and ask how her day was. 

As for my day - when it came up - I kept it short and light. If something had gone wrong - I would say - but in the context of: this went wrong today, we have a plan to start addressing it tomorrow. 

That had a BIG impact on our marriage. 





thenub said:


> Your right there. I started walking when the weather was -30°c to -40°c. The walks were shorter mind you, but I was determined. I figured if I lost weight and built muscle, my wife would be all over me. Didn't happen. I kept walking everyday no matter what the weather was like.
> Once my wife really noticed my weight loss and the weather was getting a little more bearable, she decided to start walking with me. That was what I had been hoping for. It gave us a chance to talk without being interrupted by the kids and is just a nice way to wind down the day. It's a nice feeling to start walking and have her hook onto my arm and hold tight.
> The biggest thing was the negative attitude I always seemed to have. It still crops up now and then but as soon as I realize it, I'll joke about it and reframe myself.
> Self confidence was another big issue with her even though she never said anything about it. Between the weight loss, the added muscle and getting my diabetes totally under control, my confidence has never been higher. This has made a huge difference in the bedroom. I see now when she looks at me, there is love and passion and she is starting to let loose in the bedroom as well. She is ready to try anything because she knows if it doesn't work out I won't be bothered by it.
> ...


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## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

I would call mine a success story. Went from a clinically sexless marriage (the last dry spell was 9 months.. no she wasn't pregnant) to a regular 2X per week sexlife. And I don't just mean over a short period of time because it has been like 8 years since our sexual "recovery".


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## another shot (Apr 14, 2015)

tommyr said:


> I would call mine a success story. Went from a clinically sexless marriage (the last dry spell was 9 months.. no she wasn't pregnant) to a regular 2X per week sexlife. And I don't just mean over a short period of time because it has been like 8 years since our sexual "recovery".


Please tell us how you did it


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Personal said:


> Exactly, wanting to do it is essential! When one or all participating parties don't want to, sex isn't going to happen.


I have a slightly different take. Very similar but slightly different. 

Sex can and should happen when one party wants sex and that other party wants both to emotionally bond and pleasure their partner in life, even if they are neutral or slightly negative about having sex.

To say a couple BOTH need to want to have sex for it to happen is to reduce the frequency to a point where troubles may occur in the marriage.

By analogy, if the only time a couple ate together, was when both were really hungry, they would share very few meals together. That in turn would deprive them of an opportunity to spend meaningful time together.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Young at Heart said:


> I have a slightly different take. Very similar but slightly different.
> 
> Sex can and should happen when one party wants sex and that other party wants both to emotionally bond and pleasure their partner in life, even if they are neutral or slightly negative about having sex.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, many people seem to believe that sex is some forbidden city where normal rules of reciprocity and empathy don't apply and where one should only do exactly what one feels like doing at any precise moment and never anything more.

What is funny as how all of these boundaries and hangups regarding respecting oneself and limits, etc, tend to go out the window as soon as a new partner enters the picture.

At the end of the day, the person who has this type of witholding attitude toward sex is typically closed off and frigid in all aspects of the relationship, and the so-called "HD" person is really the person who keeps the relationship afloat with constant entreaties toward togetherness.


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## Big Dude (Feb 24, 2013)

Anon1111 said:


> At the end of the day, the person who has this type of witholding attitude toward sex is typically closed off and frigid in all aspects of the relationship, and the so-called "HD" person is really the person who keeps the relationship afloat with constant entreaties toward togetherness.


I think perhaps you go too far here. I have no idea how typical my LD wife is, but she is the most affectionate and loving person I have ever known. I also see a lot of posts on TAM from people who admire their spouses in every way except sexually...and if those spouses really were closed off and frigid in all aspects of the relationship it would be so much easier to leave them, rather than agonize about trying to find a way to fix the sex part.


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## BronzeTorpedo (Dec 17, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> What I said was that anything we do give, whether we feel obligated or not, is actually a gift. We can tell ourselves we do these things out of obligation, but that's just a position you have adopted.


Why are you assuming that your position is the rule and his position is the exception, rather than the opposite? I think that jorgegene's position is more common than yours. I know that, if I told my wife that my faithfulness was my gift to her, and that she should be grateful, since I am under no obligation to provide this gift, I would have a very unpleasant evening.



> I just said that no one is obligated in reality, because we all have free will and can all walk out the door at any moment. Obligations we take on are personal choices, not something that anyone can enforce upon you.


I think the family courts would disagree with you. The personal choice to divorce one's spouse can be quite expensive. Walter Scott spent time in jail over child support payments. He ran from police, likely over owed support, and was killed. So some of these personal choices have potentially severe consequences. And choices where the deck can be stacked against you that much aren't really free choices.



> When you say you owe it to her, therefore you expect her to owe it to you, you are making this transactional and creating a situation where you feel you are EARNING the right to reciprocated feelings and deeds. But sex can't work that way and remain hot and passionate and all about giving of ourselves. You are basically saying she is obligated, and that is the least sexy thing in the world.


That may be true. But it doesn't sound like marriage. In your opinion, would marriage be sexier if the vows went something like, "Husband/wife, do you promise to do whatever you want to, whenever you want to, with no consequences whatsoever, for as long as you feel like it?" How many people would sign up for that kind of no-commitment marriage? And how, apart from the threat-point of divorce, would it differ from not being married?

And that question isn't really rhetorical. My son will soon be entering puberty and modern marriage appears to be all risk and little reward. So I'm seriously considering advising him to avoid marriage completely and simply have sex with a girlfriend for as long as he wants to and, if she begins to show typical signs of waning lust common in most marriages, to dump her and get a new girlfriend(s) that has a little more pep in her step.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> Here's what I love about this.
> 
> Guy sees a problem - likely a multi faceted problem. He has several choices:
> 1. Complaining to his wife - however nicely - about her lack of desire or her unwillingness to have sex at the frequency he wants.
> ...


I don't know, MEM. On one hand I see what you're saying--talk is cheap when it's substituted for action. On the other hand, I don't think you should devalue communication.

Will complaining about a lack of sex increase sex? No.

But once you've lifted the weights and bought the smaller pants, and screwed like you're 19 again....how does that help you deal with the resentment of 10 years of sexlessness? Do you just pretend it never happened? Likewise, how does the awesome new job and whatnot help your spouse deal with the resentment they carry about the years you floundered through life causing them to lose attraction in the first place?

To say that #4 is just what a man does ultimately is just not enough in my opinion. It's only a starting point.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Fozzy,

Conversation is typically a lot easier with some momentum behind it. Creates credibility.




Fozzy said:


> I don't know, MEM. On one hand I see what you're saying--talk is cheap when it's substituted for action. On the other hand, I don't think you should devalue communication.
> 
> Will complaining about a lack of sex increase sex? No.
> 
> ...


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
Our sex life was never very good, and gradually declined over the years. A few years ago I had a talk with my wife and things got much better. Then gradually declined again.

A few weeks ago I had another talk. This really upset her - but after a few days I guess she realized that I was not being unreasonable. Things have gotten much better. I very much hope it will last.


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## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

We are on the increase from rebuilding after years of neglect from working too much and her super mommy issues. Heading in the right direction for 2 years now. Cant wait to see how far back to the promise land we can take it. Not fast enough for me but at least the effort pays off rather handsomely. 

I have found my A game pays waaaaay better than any level of half azz effort to start her engine purring. IT would be nice to get a freebie once in a while.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

richardsharpe said:


> A few weeks ago I had another talk. This really upset her - but after a few days I guess she realized that I was not being unreasonable. Things have gotten much better. I very much hope it will last.


What upset her about it? She really didn't see it coming? That's what always gets me; how can they not KNOW? But, somehow, I suppose they don't.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening 
There is a subset of LD people who really don't realize / grock that sex is important to their partners. They think of it is just another thing you occasionally do together. Hints and suggestions didn't work, I had to outright tell here that our once a month sex life was making me miserable. 




Buddy400 said:


> What upset her about it? She really didn't see it coming? That's what always gets me; how can they not KNOW? But, somehow, I suppose they don't.


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## Melvynman (Mar 19, 2014)

Niceguynomore said:


> I wonder if anyone has any success in turning his/her sex life around. At this point, I don't think my LD wife would get any better. I have been following TAM for a few years, but have not seen a case of success yet.
> 
> Is this forum "the blind leading the blind"?


Yes! some are blind and deaf! 

Almost everyone here learned humans sexuality by school yard hearsay. 

Society tells us that we are to marry and be monogamous for life!

Mother nature via evolution design women to give birth to 3 to 5 children all from different fathers. Two or three children survive to adulthood. Her hormones and sexual appetite are always changing and moving on between every two to seven years for women. That is how about how long you can expect to have great sex. For her to remain monogamous she must repress her sexuality and that leeds to her slowly becoming sexually dysfunctional. Basically her hymen dries out and intercourse becomes painful again, like a virgin every time she has sex! Sorry not a true statement! I was just playing with hearsay you most likely learned about hymens and virginity. Most likely cause is her hymen drying out! The question is why does her hymen dry out? Ask yourself this question why do men have breast? I will give you a clue. Mens breast and women's hymen come from the same animal! How long ago were we that animal? 

Human evolved into becoming sex loving animals over millions of years. We started farming about 8,ooo years ago and men started trying to control female reproductive to ensure paternity. They couldn't farm and follow the tribe were the women where. Men had food and shelter and demanded reproductive rights. Hearsay has been driving human sexuality for so long its only been only a few decades since doctors started believe women can enjoy sex. 

It is the "Blind leading the Blind." 

Sorry I know its doesn't read well but its not easy getting that much information out quickly.


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