# Husband getting desperate



## ReallyGoodUsername (Aug 29, 2013)

Quick facts:
Husband here. Been married for 19 years. Have 3 kids. One is 18 years old. I'm the sole income earner for our family.

Been having an issue for awhile now that is getting worse imo and I've taken some actions but I dont know if its the right thing to do or not.

I found out when my son was 16-17 that he was smoking cigarettes. Also found out that my wife was buying them for him (paying for them too). I asked her to stop that I disagreed totally with it. She never stopped. About 6 months ago my son came to me and wanted me to lend his friend $150, I said no thats not something I want to be involved in. He went to my wife and got her on me about it. I still said no. So she took the money from our line of credit and gave it to his friend behind my back. 

Of course we never saw the money again. 

I was furious. I changed the password on our web banking. The line of credit is in my name so she couldn't transfer anything out anymore.

This hasn't stopped her. She would still buy his smokes and give him cash from our grocery money. So I cracked down on that going along with her now to buy groceries and accounting for all that money. Sometimes she would take my credit card while I was sleeping and buy them for him, so I'm hiding that now.

She drives him around looking for smokers so he can bum smokes from them.

Two days ago he asked me for money. Please keep in mind he's 18 now, not in school anymore and not working. I said no. So of course my wife starts in on me. I stick to my guns and say no. So she goes to the bank and withdraws it from our mortgage payment and gives it to him. The only account she access to now.

I'm at my wits end. I'm now debating closing that last account so she'll have zero access to money.

I HATE this. I feel like garbage, the money dictator. But I dont know what to do. She says its not just my money but I refuse to have no say in what happens to the money I earn.

Am I doing the right thing cutting off the money? I've talked to her about it, she doesnt care what I think. She'll do ANYTHING my son asks her.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

What reasons does she give for doing what she's doing?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ReallyGoodUsername (Aug 29, 2013)

PBear said:


> What reasons does she give for doing what she's doing?
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


For the smokes she says its because he "freaks out" if he doesn't get them. I suggest quitting.

He controls her. She may actually be a little scared of him. Some of my thinking is taking away the access to money will take this out of her hands. But when ever I do ANYTHING she counters me. I say no, she says yes etc. I try to change his behavior but she wont let me


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If I were you, I'd tell the wife you are kicking the son out if he's not in school and she's welcome to move with him and try to make a living, or she can stay with you and abide by this decision.


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## anonlady (Aug 23, 2013)

I'm sorry your wife isn't on board and doesn't see what her enabling behavior does/will do to your son. He's old enough (And has been for quite some time) to get his own job and pay for his own cigarrettes. She isn't doing him any favors.

I'd block her access from all accounts for the time being. 

She seems to need some acceptance from her son (giving money to his friends, driving him around so he can bum smokes). Is she not getting that acceptance/attention from you?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

ReallyGoodUsername said:


> I try to change his behavior but she wont let me


This, however, I have a big problem with.

First, she won't let you what? Do what you want? Is she YOUR mother?

Second, you can't change anyone else's behavior anyway. What you CAN do is stop being a doormat and set some rules and consequences for him AND her. You shouldn't be hiding money from her, but if she continues to do these things, you should have the cajones to flat out TELL her that you are cutting her off from everything because of her actions.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

ReallyGoodUsername said:


> For the smokes she says its because he "freaks out" if he doesn't get them. I suggest quitting.
> 
> He controls her. She may actually be a little scared of him. Some of my thinking is taking away the access to money will take this out of her hands. But when ever I do ANYTHING she counters me. I say no, she says yes etc. I try to change his behavior but she wont let me


Why would she be scared of him? If one of my kids was threatening or intimidating other family members in the house, there would be serious repercussions. And how does she "stop you"?

Personally, it seems like nobody is in control, and now you've got an 5 year old in an 18 year old's body. You can start by trying to eliminate your wife's access to cash, but she's already proven that she's willing to sacrifice your mortgage payments to give him money. I'd expect to see things start to "disappear" around your house pretty soon, if they haven't already. Or the younger kids to start being hit up. And then what? Deal with the core problem. An 18 year old who doesn't respect his parents. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Yep!

And a father who won't rein him in.


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## soulseer (Jul 26, 2013)

that boy needs to own his habit and get a job to support it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LoveAtDaisys (Jul 3, 2013)

Get that deadbeat out of your house.

Sorry to say it like that, but realistically your son is acting like a deadbeat. Bumming cigarettes off of his MOTHER? Having his mommy drive him around to beg for smokes? Daddy says no to something so he runs to Mommy to get permission? He's got a lot of growing up to do, and it may take some tough love and time to get there.

My mother did something similar to my father years ago when they had a spending problem. When the problem was rectified the limits went away. But she made her reasonings for the limited access to money very clear each step. Your story confuses me because I can't tell if you tell your wife or not about limiting her access to money?

I know that, even if he had a good reason, if one day I tried to access an account and my husband had locked me out of it without telling me, I'd be VERY resentful and feel very controlled. Granted, I'd still feel controlled if he told me, but at least he would have been honest. So I recommend sitting down with her and saying something to the effect of

"Honey, I am at the end of my rope concerning [son]. I feel like he is taking advantage of us and acting like a child instead of the young man he is. I plan on asking him to find a new place to live by [date], and telling him that we are cutting him off financially. I feel like he might try to scare you or pressure you into giving him money when we tell him this, so I think it might be best to take you off the accounts for the next [few days/weeks/months] so that he can't do that."


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Yes cut off the supply of money from that last account. 

You might not be able to change your son's behavior or your wife's actions but you can stop the financial bleeding.

Of course your wife taking this money behind your back is only a symptom of much bigger problems in your marriage. Trust and communication are long gone and probably won't ever come back.


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## ReallyGoodUsername (Aug 29, 2013)

Thank you for all the replies.

When I say "she wont let me" what I mean is, I try to put rules in place and she lets him ignore them. Like chores to earn money for instance, she would then go behind my back and give him money without doing the chores and do them herself.

I don't hide money, I'm very clear about how much we have and where it is. I told her why I was removing her access to the accounts.

It may be an acceptance thing with her, I don't understand it. He treats her like trash and she doesn't do anything about it, doesn't stand up to him. He avoids doing it around me cause I don't tolerate it. Do I not give her attention, I dont think things have changed much over the years. When she does these things that make me angry I'm not very friendly but I dont stay angry long, just not in me. 

I know I'm not innocent in all of this. Over the years of her over ruling any rule I try to put in place has made me step back. It was a mistake on my part to let it go as far as it has. I'm harder on the other 2 kids (twins 14yr) not letting them get away with anything and have a great relationship with them.

She told me once that she thinks he's capable of hitting her, I've never witnessed anything that would make me think that but that's why I said I think she scared of him


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Odd that she will stand up to you but not your son. The dynamics of your family seems very odd to me.


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## ReallyGoodUsername (Aug 29, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> Odd that she will stand up to you but not your son. The dynamics of your family seems very odd to me.


Odd, very much so

I'm pretty confident there are mental heath issues for both of them. Both have starting counselling recently


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

It's easy to make and enforce rules on those that go along willingly... Not so easy when they don't. 

As far as counseling... You've identified that you're part of the problem. So are you part of the solution? Are you involved with any marriage or family counseling?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Have you read No More Mr Nice Guy? You need to read it, like yesterday. YOU are a bigger problem here than her, RGU.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

PBear said:


> It's easy to make and enforce rules on those that go along willingly... Not so easy when they don't.


Which is why you enact consequences. I don't see you giving out ANY consequences to either one of them.


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## ReallyGoodUsername (Aug 29, 2013)

PBear said:


> It's easy to make and enforce rules on those that go along willingly... Not so easy when they don't.
> 
> As far as counseling... You've identified that you're part of the problem. So are you part of the solution? Are you involved with any marriage or family counseling?
> 
> ...


I'm trying to be part of the solution by not giving the 18yr old money for anything. He needs to take responsibility for himself and he wont as long as he's being taken care of. I'm not taking away access to money as a punishment.

We are not in marriage counseling but I am seeing the need and will look into it.


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## ReallyGoodUsername (Aug 29, 2013)

turnera said:


> Have you read No More Mr Nice Guy? You need to read it, like yesterday. YOU are a bigger problem here than her, RGU.


I have not read that but will check it out.




turnera said:


> Which is why you enact consequences. I don't see you giving out ANY consequences to either one of them.


What consequences can you give your spouse? I'm not prepared to threaten divorce


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Personally, I think the three of you need to sit down for family counseling. As well as you and your wife together. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Print this out for your wife to read:

Stop Spoiling Your Kids

Over-indulgence, Dr. Phil explains, is one of the most insidious forms of child abuse. Here is a perspective that might help you stop:

•Your primary job as a parent is to prepare your child for how the world really works. In the real world, you don't always get what you want. You will be better able to deal with that as an adult if you've experienced it as a child.

•If your parent/child relationship is based on material goods, your child won't have the chance to experience unconditional love.

•Be a good role model. "We're not the only influence in our kids' lives, so we better be the best influence," says Dr. Phil.

•Redefine what taking care of your children means. Are you providing for them emotionally and spiritually? You need not buy them material goods in order to create a bond. Instead of tangible gifts, how about spending some time together? Be careful that you aren't teaching them that emotions can be healed by a trip to the mall. 

•Don't let your guilt get in the way of your parenting. "Your job as a parent is not to make yourself feel good by giving the child everything that makes you feel good when you give it," Dr. Phil tells one mom. Your job as a parent is to prepare your child to succeed in school and when they get out into the world. "Kids have to be socialized in a way that they understand you work hard for what you get." You don't want to teach your child that they will get everything through manipulation, pouting, crying, door slamming and guilt induction. 

•Make sure your children aren't defining their happiness and their status in the world as a function of what they wear or drive. Sit down with them and have a one-on-one conversation about what really defines their worth — their intelligence, their creativity, their caring, their giving, their work ethic, etc. If you spent equal time sitting down and talking to them about what really mattered as you do shopping, you might be able counterbalance the countless images they see telling them otherwise. 

•Understand "intrinsic" versus "extrinsic" motivation. Intrinsic motivation is when people do things because they feel proud of themselves when they do it. They feel a sense of accomplishment and achievement. Extrinsic motivation is when someone does something because of external motivation. For example, they will receive money, a toy or privilege if they do the task. If you are always rewarding your child with material things, he/she will never learn how to motivate themselves with internal rewards like pride. They also will never learn to value things because there are so many things and nothing is special. 

•Make sure your child understands the value of hard work. For example, Dr. Phil explains, "I always told our boys, 'If you make Cs, you're going to have a C standard of living. If you make Bs, you're going to have a B standard of living. If you make As, you're going to have an A standard of living.'" 

•Dr. Phil reminds one young guest who aspires to be wealthy that it's not a bad goal, but it takes a lot of hard work to get there. "The difference between winners and losers is winners do things losers don't want to do. And that's work hard to get ready to be a star," he says.

•If your child idolizes a celebrity, ask him/her why. Dr. Phil speaks to one young guest who looks up to rich girls like Paris Hilton and Nicole Richie. "What have either of them ever done, except spend money that they got from somebody else? What is it you're looking up to?" 

•Your child does not have to love you every minute of every day. He'll get over the disappointment of having been told "no." But he won't get over the effects of being spoiled.

•Help your child set goals. Teach him/her that striving to own nice things is fine if he/she understands how much hard work it takes to afford that, and then doesn't base his/her self-worth around what she buys.

Dr. Phil.com - Advice - Stop Spoiling Your Kids


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

ReallyGoodUsername said:


> What consequences can you give your spouse? I'm not prepared to threaten divorce


 That would depend on your situation. You could say something like "This is a major disagreement and I can't go along with what you're doing. If you're afraid of him, I will kick him out today. But if I find out you gave him money or drove him around to bum, I'm going to have to change the situation here. It may start with kicking him out, but it also might include having to treat you like a child and take away your access to money, sell your car, whatever it takes. You're free to move out if you think I'm being unreasonable, but I will no longer allow him to live here, in MY house, and act like this, without his own job. I'll help you find your own apartment so he can live with you."


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

PBear said:


> Personally, I think the three of you need to sit down for family counseling. As well as you and your wife together.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 She needs to hear from an expert that she is doing her son no favors.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Here's another one:

Steps to Independence: How to Get Your Adult Children Living on Their Own

Close to 14 million adult children are still living at home. There are simple steps both parents and their kids need to take to make their lives more productive, fulfilling and healthy.




For Parents:

Set boundaries without feeling guilt. 
Parents need to put down boundaries and stick to them. Children often assume the victim role and say, "I can't do it. I have to live here." Parents buy into this thinking, and then feel guilty because they want to help their kids. When they feed that guilt, they ignore the fact that they are crippling their children's advancement in life. 

Let your adult children plan their own lives.
Parents should not try to make a life plan for their adult children; this is something they need to devise on their own so they will follow it. Parents can guide and support their kids, but treating them like babies may cause them to regress. They need to be moving ahead and maturing, not regressing into childhood roles. Adult kids should be living as independent young people and making their own way. They need to decide for themselves what they want out of life, and devise a plan to obtain it. 

Think about the true meaning of help.
There is an old saying: "Those for whom you do the most, wind up resenting you the worst." Are you really helping your kids if you're not showing them how the real world works? Parents need to redefine what it means to help someone. Look at your motivation for helping your children. If you are doing it to feel better about yourself, then you probably don't have your child's best interest in mind. You don't help people by taking away their self-sufficiency, pride of accomplishment and achievement. Children need to take an initiative and find ways to achieve their goals on their own. If something is important enough for your children, they will find a way to make it happen. 


Prepare your children for the world.
"When we talk about loving our children, loving them means preparing them," Dr. Phil tells his guests. In the world, your children will have to pull their own weight and make their own way. If you allow them not to require more from themselves, then they won't, and they won't progress. It is important for your children to learn self-sufficiency, develop high self-esteem and be motivated from early on in life. If you are constantly helping them and taking care of their needs, you are not preparing them for the real world, and in fact, you are actually crippling them. "It's not fair to enable them for a long, long time and then all of a sudden just put them on the street. You own the problem as well," Dr. Phil says. "There's got to be a plan. There's got to be a transition." 

Dr. Phil.com - Advice - Steps to Independence: How to Get Your Adult Children Living on Their Own


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I totally agree with the family counseling. Like you say, you've let this go on for so long that I highly doubt you're going to be able to change the dynamic unaided. Even kicking your son out isn't going to solve the problem - who will pay his rent? I'd lay any odds that it will be your wife. Somehow. If you cut off her access to money the next thing she'll do is start stealing and pawning stuff.

As for consequences for her - well, is there some reason SHE can't get a job if she wants to spend money on your son, and he won't get one?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Also curious... Your youngest two are 14. You're the only income earner. Your wife's actions are causing financial stress. 

I'm seeing an obvious solution here...

And if you've shut off her access to everything but the mortgage, how is she paying for anything like groceries, gas, etc?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ReallyGoodUsername (Aug 29, 2013)

Hope1964 said:


> I totally agree with the family counseling. Like you say, you've let this go on for so long that I highly doubt you're going to be able to change the dynamic unaided. Even kicking your son out isn't going to solve the problem - who will pay his rent? I'd lay any odds that it will be your wife. Somehow. If you cut off her access to money the next thing she'll do is start stealing and pawning stuff.
> 
> As for consequences for her - well, is there some reason SHE can't get a job if she wants to spend money on your son, and he won't get one?


I've been asking her to find work, we could really use the money. She seems to take it like an insult, gets mad at me for suggesting it


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

ReallyGoodUsername said:


> I've been asking her to find work, we could really use the money. She seems to take it like an insult, gets mad at me for suggesting it


Then give her some choices, and EXPLAIN THE CONSEQUENCES of each choice
- get a job
- stop paying for sons crap
- go to family counseling
- move out with son

What you want is for the first three to happen and the last one to not, but the last one will have to if at least one of the first three don't. It really has gotten to that point.


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## ReallyGoodUsername (Aug 29, 2013)

PBear said:


> Also curious... Your youngest two are 14. You're the only income earner. Your wife's actions are causing financial stress.
> 
> I'm seeing an obvious solution here...
> 
> ...


She has access to 2 account atm. The bill payment (mortgage) account and an account I setup for groceries/cloths/gas. I put money in there as needed trying to avoid any extra


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## ReallyGoodUsername (Aug 29, 2013)

Thank you everyone for the replies. You've made me think about this beyond the financials. I'm going to insist on marriage counselling.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

ReallyGoodUsername said:


> Thank you everyone for the replies. You've made me think about this beyond the financials. I'm going to insist on marriage counselling.


And if she balks, what will happen?


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## ReallyGoodUsername (Aug 29, 2013)

Hope1964 said:


> And if she balks, what will happen?


Then I may go alone and get advice on how to proceed.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

You're right, the financials are a symptom of the problem. MC is a good starting point. So is the "no more mr. Nice guy" book. You may want to consider your role in this, and look at individual counseling. 

Good luck! We really do wish you well, even if we came down hard! 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

ReallyGoodUsername said:


> Then I may go alone and get advice on how to proceed.


Uh, I meant, what is HER consequence if she balks?

Come on, man, this is the way it works. What you've been doing isn't working. You KNOW that. Saying you 'may' go to counseling yourself is perpetuating this mess.

What are YOU going to do if she won't go to counseling that will negatively affect her?? 

Think of raising kids here. If you want your kid to stop doing something, do you punish YOURSELF??

You don't want to punish your wife - you want to make the result of her bad choices uncomfortable for her, by doing something yourself. If she verbally abuses you, leave the room. If she follows, leave the house. etc etc etc ad nauseum. The fact that you HAVE been dishing out some negative consequences already by restricting her access to money in dribs and drabs, and her reaction to that, shows you what she is capable of. It's time to draw your big guns now.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

I'm going to throw out what may initially sound like an opposing view, but let me be blunt. You are not your wife's dad. Stop treating her like a child. 

As an adult woman, she has the right to have a completely different opinion from yours and to make a completely stupid choice....just like you do. She's not to be "taught" or controlled. 

However, the pattern I see is that you act like her father (rather than her equal and her lover) and try to force her to behave the "right" way (aka "your way") and when she choose to not do that, you punish her like a parent and then don't allow her to experience the natural consequence of her choice...all while pretending to "do the best thing."

My suggestion may sound different. because let's be honest. I I tried to force you to behave the "right" way (aka "my way") and when you chose to not do that, I punished you like a parent--wouldn't you resent me? Wouldn't you be angry with me and probably be looking for a way to "stick it" to me? Okay is that how you want your WIFE to feel? If not, you need to do something different!

Here's my proposal. Right now, the set up is YOU TELL HER, and she has to obey. You have all the power, she has none. So you two are set up as competitors, competing AGAINST each other for "who has the power." I suggest that instead, you start recognizing that your wife is EQUAL to you and has the right to make the wrong choice. I suggest that you completely scrap the competition and make an agreement with each other to be EQUAL adults, EQUAL partners, and EQUAL parents. I suggest you ask her if she would be willing to agree to a thing I call MUU = Mutual United Understanding. 

In summary MUU is this: "I agree to do NOTHING in my life, marriage or family until my spouse is in mutual agreement with me, we are united in the decision, and we have an understanding of what we are agreeing to." This way, the two of you are on the SAME TEAM!! Her opinion and value is the same as yours and your opinion and value is the same as hers. Where the hard part comes in is that you will think: "But having S18 stop smoking IS RIGHT!!" (and it may be...I'm not arguing that) but she may disagree...and your promise to her is that until she mutually agrees, is united, and fully understands, you will control yourself and do nothing. Of course, likewise, she agrees to the same...and this is all predicated on both of you honoring the MUU agreement. 

I know it sounds sort of nuts, but by going MUU instead of being her parent, she gets to have a voice and be valued in the marriage and she also get a partner who always backs HER! Likewise you get to know your wife and get her on your team instead of competing with her. 

For this immediate issue, I'll be blunt--the possibilities are almost endless. You say "no money and no smokes" and she says "yes money and yes smokes". So in MUU you don't stop the money and make demands, and she doesn't misuse money or buy the smokes UNTIL BOTH OF YOU HIT SOME ARRANGEMENT about which YOU BOTH have a mutually united understanding. Maybe she will explain why she wants to buy him smokes...and you LISTEN without thinking of the next thing your going to say. Maybe you can explain why you don't, and ask her to repeat it back in her own words to see if she heard you. Maybe you two could agree to her having an amount with which she can do "as she pleases" and if she gives her money to S18 for smokes, she can't go to some club she likes...and that's her choice! But if she says "Honey I bought Jr. the cigs, can I have $5 for the club" you need to allow her to experience the natural consequence and say "Sweetie I love you and you are a grown woman. Our MUU was $XX for you to do as you please and you chose to give it away. So no the consequence of chosing to give it to X is that now you don't have enough for Y. I am going to honor our MUU" 

Soooo...does this make sense?


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Affaircare said:


> You are not your wife's dad. Stop treating her like a child.
> 
> As an adult woman, she has the right to have a completely different opinion from yours and to make a completely stupid choice....just like you do. She's not to be "taught" or controlled.



:iagree: AMEN!!!!!!!!

I was wondering when someone was finally going to say this.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's stupid for your wife to give your son cigarette money. And it's stupid of him to be smoking when he can't afford it (smoking is stupid anyway, but that's another issue). 

But guess what - your wife and your son are both adults, and *this is a free country where adults have the right to do stupid things!!* I know that's not easy to accept, because you see money going down the drain. I do too. But that's still the way it is.

A marriage is supposed to be a partnership. You can't cut off your wife's money like cutting off a child's allowance. That's not right. Now I understand what she is doing is frustrating, but she also sees what you are doing as frustrating. You have to give up and let her have at least 50% control of the finances, as long as she isn't mentally ill or doing anything dangerous (like gambling or a drug habit). If you disagree so strongly with her and can't trust her, then maybe you shouldn't be married. You will have to make that call. After all, right now it sounds like you have much more of a parent/child relationship than a partnership. 

Your wife would also go a long way toward asserting her rights if she got a job as well. If she gets upset when you bring it up, ask her how she would feel if you quit your job to stay home? But I would cut her (and your son) a little slack because it's hard as hell to get a job in this economy. 

I was in your son's place once at age 24, and what did I do? I joined the Army. If that's not for him, at least he could go to school in some form (college, bartending school, etc) to put himself in some direction.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

The wife is not looking like an adult, but like a co-dependent girl of lesser age than her son, _co-depedent of the son!_

Fix the issues with her first, then rule you son. Or kick him into the military for some education on living according to rules.

Sorry.


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