# Single by choice and society's expectations



## RandomDude

Strangely, my latest split up didn't cut me up as bad as I thought it would. Instead I was more cut up over what I had to do (we broke up because she had to leave the country for various reasons) - she took it all in a lot worse than me. Yet she was a great woman, and she's set a standard for me, not to mention a reminder that there are great women out there in the world, my negativity and bitterness are all gone. Yet, despite this, I don't feel the need to pursue any further relationships.

As great as my relationship was, I feel relationships seem... overrated. With past relationships I always chalked it up to the flaws of the women I was with but not this time, this time I actually found someone who well... had nothing wrong with her! Yet I feel relieved actually that she left, that she gave me an excuse to end things (I don't do distance - yet she never did anything bad by me), that I now have freedom, one less worry from my mind, one less responsibility. Yet, everyone - and I mean EVERYONE, seems to question my newfound embrace of a "single-by-choice" lifestyle.

I needed this relationship I guess, as an experience to realise who I am and what my true desires are, and they don't lie in companionship. My spirit has always been independent and I never needed anyone in my life since adulthood. But why is society so programmed to think something is wrong with you when you are "single-by-choice", they chalk it up to "bitterness", "playing tough", "lying to oneself", like really? Almost makes me want to go "none of your business" when people ask about my personal life but then that's rude. As a society we have grown to be tolerant, accepting and respectful of other people's lifestyle, yet single-by-choice is yet to be one of these "accepted" lifestyles... why?

:scratchhead:


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## chillymorn69

because deep inside their envious.


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## Dannip

I know some committed bachelors. Great guys. Lots of wisdom. Kind, intelligent. Decent guys. Hope you're on the way in that direction. I note they do have plenty of female friends. Maybe a few or orbiters. But good friends too.


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## EunuchMonk

The underground, alt-right part of the internet would joke that you are becoming a wizard @RandomDude.
You have transcended the urge for these relationships. lol.

On a serious note, I do think society sets too much store by marriage which ironically damages the institution more than it helps it. It would seem strange, that focusing on something more will actually make it worse but it does. Anything that is idolized will eventually be demonized. Obsessions are not good things. Now, if you change your mind and choose to enter another relationship, you will be entering from a point of holistic power instead of like most folks, entering because of a need, most often a desperate need.

I have seen this especially in church, which can seem like the "marriage club" most of the time. They make it seem like marriage is the end-all-be-all of life; as if you have arrived after you say "I do". Of course, a lot of relationships in church are going to the dogs. And no wonder! A piece of paper and a piece of metal on one of your fingers ain't gonna change anything! It may seem strange that I am saying this on a forum about marriage but I believe not relying on marriage-like relationships to give you ultimate fulfillment can actually make you approach them with a healthier attitude; not get bitter when your marriage is less than the silly Hollywood movies. It's life.


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## RandomDude

I almost feel guilt at involving my previous partners in my "experiments" in relationships before realising what I really wanted. I never enjoyed the married lifestyle and in fact looking back it was probably the most miserable of my life, even though it did give me some motivation to achieve something financially. I'm just not wired that way. Even with the right girl, nope. I didn't want to propose to recent girlfriend, I know what it leads to, a lifestyle that deep down I never wanted.

They even say marital breakup is bad for kids, and now I question that, I grew up thinking something must be wrong with me because I'm different in my upbringing, not to mention deep down I wanted my parents to breakup because I KNEW both of them were simply not compatible and both were too stubborn to learn to live together. I'm the "devil's child". When I divorced my wife I thought history was going to repeat itself yet my daughter adapted, she's happy, and she's bloody smart. Simply adding two and two together I realised the issues that I personally had were due to the parenting of the individual parents, not the fact that they broke up, when comparing me at my age to my daughter.

Hell you have gay couples with kids and they used to say "how about the kids, they'll grow up fked up" >.>


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## Diana7

chillymorn69 said:


> because deep inside their envious.


I dont agree. Most people desire to be with someone.


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## Diana7

EunuchMonk said:


> The underground, alt-right part of the internet would joke that you are becoming a wizard @RandomDude.
> You have transcended the urge for these relationships. lol.
> 
> On a serious note, I do think society sets too much store by marriage which ironically damages the institution more than it helps it. It would seem strange, that focusing on something more will actually make it worse but it does. Anything that is idolized will eventually be demonized. Obsessions are not good things. Now, if you change your mind and choose to enter another relationship, you will be entering from a point of holistic power instead of like most folks, entering because of a need, most often a desperate need.
> 
> I have seen this especially in church, which can seem like the "marriage club" most of the time. They make it seem like marriage is the end-all-be-all of life; as if you have arrived after you say "I do". Of course, a lot of relationships in church are going to the dogs. And no wonder! A piece of paper and a piece of metal on one of your fingers ain't gonna change anything! It may seem strange that I am saying this on a forum about marriage but I believe not relying on marriage-like relationships to give you ultimate fulfillment can actually make you approach them with a healthier attitude; not get bitter when your marriage is less than the silly Hollywood movies. It's life.


The piece of paper isn't the marriage, it's just proof of the marriage. For Christians in the church, marriage is a covenant, so much more than a legal agreement.


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## Diana7

If you are happy being single then why worry what others think? I love being married but it doesn't bother me if someone is happy alone. Most of the single people I know would love a relationship, so I think that those who genuinely don't want anyone are rare.


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## SunCMars

You are the exception.

Not everyone is happy in their own skin and left to their own devices.

You are lucky in that you can find partners of the opposite sex who find you interesting enough to date, to lay naked with after a few dates.

Many men and women are not so lucky. If you want to call "this" luck. 

You can call "your" present state of mind: independence, selfishness, maybe a lack of substantial empathy for your conquests.

Your life is now "all about you". Not saying this is wrong for you. I'm not.

I AM saying that this attitude is bad for society. If everyone just lived for themselves, what a cold cruel world it would be.

Uh, actually the world is a cold cruel place. 

This [your'] attitude would cement the notion:
My life.
My pleasure.
My needs.

This attitude is wonderful for creating, establishing families, communities, national identity.....NOT.


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## Geek_Reborn

In my line of work, its not uncommon for people to have multiple divorces, get back with an old ex-wife or husband and do the entire thing over again...Just to end up divorced again. I haven't dated in about a year or so and I have no problem with being single. However, I am an anomaly in regards to my profession. I constantly have to fend off attacks of being gay(cause I live with a buddy and we both don't date), have no interest in using women for sexual gratification and have many female friends that I do consider very attractive, but have no interest in going beyond friendship. The last woman I dated was just like the OP's last relationship. She was everything I wanted and we didn't end it for any reasons that were in our control. Yet, I have zero desire to date or look for another relationship. 

I see the way people around me lie and cheat on their SO. How they trivialize everything and then here I am..Just going about my own business and doing my own thing. I'm happy and confident. Yes, I do feel the desire for companionship or a relationship once in a while, but over all...I'm glad I'm single and happy.


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## RandomDude

Geek_Reborn said:


> In my line of work, its not uncommon for people to have multiple divorces, get back with an old ex-wife or husband and do the entire thing over again...Just to end up divorced again. I haven't dated in about a year or so and I have no problem with being single. However, I am an anomaly in regards to my profession. * I constantly have to fend off attacks of being gay(cause I live with a buddy and we both don't date)*, have no interest in using women for sexual gratification and have many female friends that I do consider very attractive, but have no interest in going beyond friendship. The last woman I dated was just like the OP's last relationship. She was everything I wanted and we didn't end it for any reasons that were in our control. Yet, I have zero desire to date or look for another relationship.
> 
> I see the way people around me lie and cheat on their SO. How they trivialize everything and then here I am..Just going about my own business and doing my own thing. I'm happy and confident. Yes, I do feel the desire for companionship or a relationship once in a while, but over all...I'm glad I'm single and happy.


Yes, what's with people thinking something is wrong with us for being happy single? >.<

Why is having a relationship almost like a status symbol of being "normal"? Is such encouragement even healthy?

Maybe it's simply not possible to understand, unless one themselves has reached "enlightenment" lol


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## southbound

I'm with you. I'm happy being single too. I was married for 18 years and been divorced 6. I've discovered that I am very happy not being in a relationship. I guess I'm a free spirit as well who likes doing what I want when I want. 

I don't know anyone who really makes marriage sound appealing for the kind of life I want to live. It's not that I think married people's lives are horrible, but there's just 
little thorns that I'm not interested in. Most anyone who is married will tell you that it takes work, and I'm just not interested in another job. 

Here's an example: a man recently retired from where I work in his early 50s, and his wife was also retiring from her job. Someone told him that would be great and he'd get to relax. He said he was sure his wife would have plenty of chores for him around the house. He was asked if he and his wife did chores together and he said, "sometimes, but my wife is picky about things she wants done, so it can be like splitting hairs sometimes. 

He didn't say this as if he were on the verge of divorce. He wasn't jolly about it, but it didn't seem to bother him too much. Personally, that just didn't sound fun to me. Currently, I do what I want when I want. Why would I want a wife with a list of chores for me that she was picky about how I did them? That doesn't sound fun. 

If I were to get in a relationship, I would have to make compromises, and my lifestyle would probably change somewhat from what it is now. That's natural. But I can't think of a single thing I want to change. I'm completely happy with my current lifestyle. 

I also use this as a measure: I look at all the married people that I know, and I don't envy anyone. I don't look at any of the guys and think, "wow, I wish I had his lifestyle. I'd be a lot happier if I had a wife like his." Again, it's not that I think they have horrible lives, it's just not anything I want.


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## EunuchMonk

Diana7 said:


> The piece of paper isn't the marriage, it's just proof of the marriage.


Good. Tell that to those who are surprised that their spouse is still the same after marriage. They seemed to believe the paper was a magical document that would change things.



> For Christians in the church, marriage is a covenant, so much more than a legal agreement.


Well, clearly not for all 'cause they are divorcing just like everybody else.


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## Andy1001

SunCMars said:


> You are the exception.
> 
> Not everyone is happy in their own skin and left to their own devices.
> 
> You are lucky in that you can find partners of the opposite sex who find you interesting enough to date, to lay naked with after a few dates.
> 
> Many men and women are not so lucky. If you want to call "this" luck.
> 
> You can call "your" present state of mind: independence, selfishness, maybe a lack of substantial empathy for your conquests.
> 
> Your life is now "all about you". Not saying this is wrong for you. I'm not.
> 
> I AM saying that this attitude is bad for society. If everyone just lived for themselves, what a cold cruel world it would be.
> 
> Uh, actually the world is a cold cruel place.
> 
> This [your'] attitude would cement the notion:
> My life.
> My pleasure.
> My needs.
> 
> This attitude is wonderful for creating, establishing families, communities, national identity.....NOT.


If you are going to start writing clear and unambiguous posts then I'm not reading them.
So there!


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## Diana7

RandomDude said:


> Yes, what's with people thinking something is wrong with us for being happy single? >.<
> 
> Why is having a relationship almost like a status symbol of being "normal"? Is such encouragement even healthy?
> 
> Maybe it's simply not possible to understand, unless one themselves has reached "enlightenment" lol


Many of us are very happy being married. Maybe its not possible for you to understand that?


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## Diana7

EunuchMonk said:


> Good. Tell that to those who are surprised that their spouse is still the same after marriage. They seemed to believe the paper was a magical document that would change things.
> 
> 
> Well, clearly not for all 'cause they are divorcing just like everybody else.


Nearly all of the divorces I know of were between non believers. Of the very few which were between believers, or one believer and one not, there was always a very serious reason.


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## Hope Shimmers

If you are happiest being single, then be single. Who cares what anyone else thinks?

If you do choose to date casually, just be sure you are both on the same page. Personally I would never date a man who doesn't want a serious relationship. In my mind, dating is about seeing if you are compatible to spend the rest of your lives together. I actually hate the dating process but like being in a relationship.

I also think that what you want when you are relatively young and healthy may not be the same thing you want in 20 or 30 years as you grow older.


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## Diana7

Hope Shimmers said:


> If you are happiest being single, then be single. Who cares what anyone else thinks?
> 
> If you do choose to date casually, just be sure you are both on the same page. Personally I would never date a man who doesn't want a serious relationship. In my mind, dating is about seeing if you are compatible to spend the rest of your lives together. I actually hate the dating process but like being in a relationship.
> 
> I also think that what you want when you are relatively young and healthy may not be the same thing you want in 20 or 30 years as you grow older.


I am like you. Dating for me was only ever about meeting a future husband, never about anything casual. 
I know that people who are happy single in their 20's, 30's and 40's, may not be quite so happy as a lonely older man in his 60's-80's.


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## EunuchMonk

Diana7 said:


> Nearly all of the divorces I know of were between non believers. Of the very few which were between believers, or one believer and one not, there was always a very serious reason.


Then your radar must be narrow. They are divorcing like others and some won't because of pressure from the church but the relationship is as good as over; roommates, nothing more. Or they just choose to cheat instead of divorce. That's a way to push your spouse into the backdrop without incurring the stigma of being a divorcee in the church.


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## Diana7

EunuchMonk said:


> Then your radar must be narrow. They are divorcing like others and some won't because of pressure from the church but the relationship is as good as over; roommates, nothing more. Or they just choose to cheat instead of divorce. That's a way to push your spouse into the backdrop without incurring the stigma of being a divorcee in the church.


 No my radar is wide. I have known countless believers in the last 40 years, and I am a Mod on a very busy Christian online forum.


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## Ynot

OP, I feel much the same way you do. I was married for 24 years, divorced for 3 years now. In that time I have learned to enjoy being alone and doing whatever I want, whenever I want, I don't need anyone else's opinion of approval. My house is MY house. It has what I want where I want it. Again, I don't have to accept the make up all over the bathroom or the pictures from Hobby Lobby. It is my place, my space, my sanctuary. I cannot begin to think about having anyone else live in my space.

I have been in at least four LTRs and several shorter ones since I got divorced. I haven't met that "perfect" woman. Maybe some day I will. In the mean time I am happy to do exactly what I am doing this weekend - yesterday I played 18 holes of golf, came home, took a nap, ate, washed and waxed my car, took my motorcycle over to gas up and stopped and had a couple of beers. Today, I am going for a long motorcycle ride, plan on coming home taking a nap, detailing the interior of my car and perhaps having a couple of glasses of bourbon or perhaps hitting the pipe on my deck before catching up on a few series I enjoy on TV.

I would definitely have been envious of such a laid back weekend when I was married. I would have rather been doing that, then shlupping off to go shopping, visiting and spending time with couples I really didn't like or worrying about how angry she was going to be if I didn't get everything off my honey dew list done. I think many people would agree.

As for only dating casually, I say that is the best way. I am not looking for a LTR but if one develops - great. I think one of my biggest turn offs is dating a woman who is looking for a LTR, I think it is a sign of desperation or at least neediness that I am not interested in fixing. Actively looking for a LTR, to me, as opposed to casually dating until you meet the right person, means that you are not happy being alone. If you aren't happy being alone, what makes you think you will be in a relationship. Sometimes I think they are looking for a relationship just for the sake of being in a relationship, which for the most part is the reason they are not in a relationship now.


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## RandomDude

Yes, sanctuary, for me it's peace, and it's how I recharge. During marriage when I need a break I still remember driving hours away to the country, poor mobile reception, and just enjoying the solitude. I wanted to get away. Fast forward divorce I thought I had a hole that needed to be filled, even prior to breaking up with my recent girlfriend I had set up a potential "number two". Yet, after finding my new freedom again, away from all the intrusions into my life... I realised I do not wish to sacrifice it again. I decided I wanted to be single.

I've never made such a decision before, with another beautiful woman waiting on the side yet I rejected her for my own solitude. My recent girlfriend was probably what I would consider a "perfect" woman in that there was nothing wrong with her, she was beautiful, kind, affectionate, loyal, trustworthy, strong in her morals, pretty much everything. Yet, the life she wanted to live, well, wasn't the life I wanted to live. A relationship intrudes too much into my life and my new passions I found. I'm not so sure if I want things to work out with any future partner considering I have found the peace in my life that I always wanted. Maybe it's just age as well, my sex drive declining so it no longer really rules me.

In the future who knows what may happen, maybe I'll meet someone whose lifestyle is similar to mine, in that she likes her romance in short bursts and not a regular lifestyle, where we both can live out independent lives. But not something I dream about, or even find myself wanting, as I already found what I wanted deep down. I feel at peace now, and I like it that way.


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## southbound

Ynot said:


> I would definitely have been envious of such a laid back weekend when I was married. I would have rather been doing that, then shlupping off to go shopping, visiting and spending time with couples I really didn't like or worrying about how angry she was going to be if I didn't get everything off my honey dew list done. I think many people would agree.
> .


I agree.


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## UnicornCupcake

I don't do distance, either so I understand you. Maybe I will when I'm old and wrinkly and don't care as much for the day-to-day joys that come with a relationship, but until then it's 100% a deal breaker for me - I don't care how perfect you are, lol.

I think the reason people merely "accept" the single by (apparently) choice lifestyle is because most people are LYING to themselves about it actually being a choice. Most, but not all. You sound like you're in a bit of a happy place so I believe your desire to not pursue another relationship is genuine, but as a woman do you know how many times I've heard friends say they aren't looking yet every single they do, plan and say revolves around "unintentionally" meeting someone? It was exhausting when I was younger. It was impossible to get a friend to hang out at the mall or beach, but when Saturday night rolls around they're ready to go out and mingle. What? If meeting someone is so unimportant why did you budget so the only thing you could do was go out?

So, I think people in a relationship "tolerate" people who SAY they aren't looking because they don't actually believe them. I'm like this with my friends in LTR who claim they don't want to get married, yet as soon as they get drunk they cry about not having a ring.

Lack of self awareness in general.


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## Married but Happy

Diana7 said:


> Nearly all of the divorces I know of were between non believers. Of the very few which were between believers, or one believer and one not, there was always a very serious reason.


Perhaps that's true amongst the people you know. However, believers generally have a higher divorce rate than non-believers. Most statistics to the contrary are from biased sources, or employ cherry-picking the data. If you disagree, perhaps you can provide some evidence to support your view - I would be interested in reading it.

https://www.thoughtco.com/divorce-rates-for-atheists-248494

The highest divorce rates are in the Bible Belt. Divorce Rates for Atheists Are Among the Lowest in America.



> ... conservative Christianity and conservative religion in general are unable to provide a sound basis for marriage - that perhaps there are other, more secular foundations for marriage that conservative Christians are missing. What might they be? Well, an obvious possibility is treating women like fully autonomous equals in the relationship, something which conservative Christianity frequently denies.


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## Ynot

Ynot said:


> I have been in at least four LTRs and several shorter ones since I got divorced. I haven't met that "perfect" woman. Maybe some day I will. In the mean time I am happy to do exactly what I am doing this weekend - yesterday I played 18 holes of golf, came home, took a nap, ate, washed and waxed my car, took my motorcycle over to gas up and stopped and had a couple of beers. Today, I am going for a long motorcycle ride, plan on coming home taking a nap, detailing the interior of my car and perhaps having a couple of glasses of bourbon or perhaps hitting the pipe on my deck before catching up on a few series I enjoy on TV.


Yea so the motorcycle ride was longer than I expected. I left at 8:30 and didn't get home until about 5:30. SO instead of coming home, I stopped and had a couple of beers. Why? Because I wanted to. While I was there I saw an attractive woman sitting there alone. So I talked to her. Why? Because I can. Nothing happened, she was waiting for someone - no big deal. When he showed up, I ordered my second beer and bid them a pleasant evening and went and sat on the patio. When I got home, no one was there asking where I had been, what I had done, when was I going to do X. I turned on Pandora and listened to the music I wanted to listen to and went out and sat on my deck and read the newspaper. A totally guilt free day of sheer enjoyment.


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## jorgegene

i was single for 25 years. i mean really single, a bachelor, no girlfriend. no dating, no sex.

i was happy. never lonely, except very occasionally. only awkward when meeting groups of people like parties when you
are the only single person and don't have a date, et. maybe 2-3 times a year. occasionally i would have to deal with people who thought i was weird.
again, hardly ever. so what. F them.

i didn't miss at all the crazy stuff and complications that goes into a relationship; two people trying to get along without driving each other nuts. 
didn't miss the arguments, fights or responsibilities that go with it.

they say that if you're not happy by yourself, then a relationship will not change that. it might make you happier, but happiness comes from within.
the people who cannot stand to be alone for more than 10 minutes are the ones who really need to look inside themselves.

there are a lot of upsides to being really single. because being single and dating has it's own drama and complications. even fwb. believe me, that has it's own
drama and complications.

On the other hand, i've been married for 4+ years and am happier than ever. have had to change my lifestyle almost completely. it's very different but good.


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## Hope Shimmers

Ynot said:


> I think one of my biggest turn offs is dating a woman who is looking for a LTR, I think it is a sign of desperation or at least neediness that I am not interested in fixing. Actively looking for a LTR, to me, as opposed to casually dating until you meet the right person, means that you are not happy being alone. If you aren't happy being alone, what makes you think you will be in a relationship. Sometimes I think they are looking for a relationship just for the sake of being in a relationship, which for the most part is the reason they are not in a relationship now.


Wait. What?

So you think that a woman wanting to be in a relationship is a sign of desperation or neediness? Ummm, no.

Were you desperate or needy when you got married originally? Remember that you had a hard time disconnecting from that marriage when it ended? 

I don't understand the difference you are implying between "looking for a long-term relationship" versus "dating casually but open to one if it happens". Honestly - why date casually at all if you don't want to find someone to be with? For sex? Who wants casual sex? Not me - I can do FWB for that, if I don't have a primary relationship at any point in time. I never dated to "look" for a LTR - but I would certainly not be open to dating someone casually who absolutely refused to be in one. Why would I want to do that? 

Your descriptions of your "perfect" weekends -- doing exactly what you want to do, when you want to do it -- frankly sound very nice for some weekends. Every weekend for the rest of my life? HELL no. That stuff gets old after years and years. Trust me. Sometimes too much of a "good" thing, really IS too much.

I no longer care where I live. I most recently have lived in a huge gorgeous house, and I hated it. I would prefer to live in a camper and travel the US if I were with someone who I wanted to be with. My house was not my "sanctuary". It's just a house. What is on the countertops in the bathroom or on the walls.... totally unimportant. 

I guess if you live the way your signature suggests, I can understand it. "At the center of every moMEnt of my life is ME". That's NOT how I want to live my life, and not how I think. It's not all about me.

That's just my dos centavos.


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## Diana7

Married but Happy said:


> Perhaps that's true amongst the people you know. However, believers generally have a higher divorce rate than non-believers. Most statistics to the contrary are from biased sources, or employ cherry-picking the data. If you disagree, perhaps you can provide some evidence to support your view - I would be interested in reading it.
> 
> https://www.thoughtco.com/divorce-rates-for-atheists-248494
> 
> The highest divorce rates are in the Bible Belt. Divorce Rates for Atheists Are Among the Lowest in America.


I live in the UK. I hardly know any Christians who are divorced, the percentage here is very low compared to those who dont go to church and aren't Christians. I would say about 5% compared to 40%.


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## Rick Blaine

Different strokes for different folks. I was happiest when married. I love intimacy, romance, and friendship. I also love the family life. 
But if that's not for you, no problemo. Better to stay single than to enter into a covenant and then bail out on the person you promised to love and care for till death do you part.


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## honcho

Ynot said:


> Yea so the motorcycle ride was longer than I expected. I left at 8:30 and didn't get home until about 5:30. SO instead of coming home, I stopped and had a couple of beers. Why? Because I wanted to. While I was there I saw an attractive woman sitting there alone. So I talked to her. Why? Because I can. Nothing happened, she was waiting for someone - no big deal. When he showed up, I ordered my second beer and bid them a pleasant evening and went and sat on the patio. When I got home, no one was there asking where I had been, what I had done, when was I going to do X. I turned on Pandora and listened to the music I wanted to listen to and went out and sat on my deck and read the newspaper. A totally guilt free day of sheer enjoyment.


These are the types of things that make single life hard to give up. When I got married I had been single a long time, it took me a long time to get used to having someone home all the time or working plans to accommodate 2. I enjoyed married life but after the divorce and about a year of readjusting to single life again I think I'd have a tough time being back in a marriage. 

Yesterday I woke up late, felt lazy and did absolutely nothing till around 1. Felt like hitting some golf balls so went to driving range for a lil while. Got home and took the cycle for a ride, my ex was terrified of bikes so when married I hardly ever rode on weekends. Wasted most of my evenings watching old music videos on utube. No one asking what I'm doing, no one wanting me to watch TV shows I hate, no one with a weekend task list. 

I'm an avid hunter, married I could only go at certain times, now anytime I feel like I go. I do miss certain aspects of being married but I also don't know if I can give up "freedom" again.


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## RandomDude

As zero hour approached with my ex lover a part of me felt dread, at abandoning a woman who in another time one would have said "never let her go", yet at the same time I began to smell it, the sweet aroma of freedom on the other-side. And after she left, was like shackles taken off my life. Soon, another woman approached, yet I saw only fresh chains. I spread my wings and chose freedom instead!!!


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## Ynot

Speaking of remaining single, here is the "a little bit about me" from an OLD profile:

"I'm a drama princess, super jealous. I like to get hammered, dance on the bar, hit on your friends, and pick fights with dudes so you can defend my honor. I take 2.5 hours to get ready for a local rock-fight and will insist on you carrying my things when we go out. As the night unfolds, prepared to give me your jacket and be able to guess why I'm suddenly upset and crying. Currently studying to be a Rodeo Clown and collecting "Hello Kitty" stuffed animals."

Yeah makes me want to jump right back into it. 

I know it is tongue in cheek and way over the top and posted as a joke, but in a way this is somewhat how I view women at this time. They are nice to look at, even nice to spend some time with, even nicer to have sex with, but I do not know if I would want even a small fraction of this in my life right now.

PS I know there is a male equivalent out there.


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## Ynot

honcho said:


> These are the types of things that make single life hard to give up. When I got married I had been single a long time, it took me a long time to get used to having someone home all the time or working plans to accommodate 2. I enjoyed married life but after the divorce and about a year of readjusting to single life again I think I'd have a tough time being back in a marriage.
> 
> Yesterday I woke up late, felt lazy and did absolutely nothing till around 1. Felt like hitting some golf balls so went to driving range for a lil while. Got home and took the cycle for a ride, my ex was terrified of bikes so when married I hardly ever rode on weekends. Wasted most of my evenings watching old music videos on utube. No one asking what I'm doing, no one wanting me to watch TV shows I hate, no one with a weekend task list.
> 
> I'm an avid hunter, married I could only go at certain times, now anytime I feel like I go. I do miss certain aspects of being married but I also don't know if I can give up "freedom" again.


I miss certain aspects of being married as well, but being single has grown on me and I too wonder whether I could ever give up doing my own thing to become part of a wedded couple again.
Yesterday I got up and went to the gym, worked until about 2, then went out with a buddy and didn't get home until after 9. I didn't have to worry about anyone approving of my time allocation


----------



## Diana7

honcho said:


> These are the types of things that make single life hard to give up. When I got married I had been single a long time, it took me a long time to get used to having someone home all the time or working plans to accommodate 2. I enjoyed married life but after the divorce and about a year of readjusting to single life again I think I'd have a tough time being back in a marriage.
> 
> Yesterday I woke up late, felt lazy and did absolutely nothing till around 1. Felt like hitting some golf balls so went to driving range for a lil while. Got home and took the cycle for a ride, my ex was terrified of bikes so when married I hardly ever rode on weekends. Wasted most of my evenings watching old music videos on utube. No one asking what I'm doing, no one wanting me to watch TV shows I hate, no one with a weekend task list.
> 
> I'm an avid hunter, married I could only go at certain times, now anytime I feel like I go. I do miss certain aspects of being married but I also don't know if I can give up "freedom" again.


In a good marriage, there will be the opportunity for each to have their own space and interests, especially once the children leave home. Also to do things together as well and share them is very special.


----------



## Diana7

RandomDude said:


> As zero hour approached with my ex lover a part of me felt dread, at abandoning a woman who in another time one would have said "never let her go", yet at the same time I began to smell it, the sweet aroma of freedom on the other-side. And after she left, was like shackles taken off my life. Soon, another woman approached, yet I saw only fresh chains. I spread my wings and chose freedom instead!!!


 Yet I feel far more free in my marriage than I would alone. Maybe that's because I have a very easy going, easy to please, laid back husband.


----------



## MrsHolland

Diana7 said:


> Yet I feel far more free in my marriage than I would alone. Maybe that's because I have a very easy going, easy to please, laid back husband.


And?

what's the relevance of your marriage to RD's thread? It is about him and his choice to be single. why do you keep making such cringe worthy statements about how superior your life is?

He is happy, all power to RD.


----------



## Ynot

MrsHolland said:


> And?
> 
> what's the relevance of your marriage to RD's thread? It is about him and his choice to be single. why do you keep making such cringe worthy statements about how superior your life is?
> 
> He is happy, all power to RD.


Reading thru her posts, makes one wonder who she is really trying to convince - others or her self.


----------



## Diana7

MrsHolland said:


> And?
> 
> what's the relevance of your marriage to RD's thread? It is about him and his choice to be single. why do you keep making such cringe worthy statements about how superior your life is?
> 
> He is happy, all power to RD.


Just saying that the things he mentions can be achieved in marriage as well. 
I am happy for him if he happy alone, few are though.


----------



## Ynot

Diana7 said:


> Yet I feel far more free in my marriage than I would alone. Maybe that's because I have a very easy going, easy to please, laid back husband.


I would venture to guess you don't actually feel more free. You probably just feel more comfortable. It seems to be an on-going theme in all of your posts. Perhaps a caged bird is all you were ever meant to be. Who am I to say? Some people would rather be safe than free.


----------



## Diana7

Ynot said:


> I would venture to guess you don't actually feel more free. You probably just feel more comfortable. It seems to be an on-going theme in all of your posts. Perhaps a caged bird is all you were ever meant to be. Who am I to say? Some people would rather be safe than free.


I have a husband who is incredibly easy going and allows me to be the person I want to be. I was a single mum for 6 years after my first marriage ended, and that was the time I felt like a caged bird.


----------



## Mr. Nail

RandomDude said:


> Strangely, my latest split up didn't cut me up as bad as I thought it would. Instead I was more cut up over what I had to do (we broke up because she had to leave the country for various reasons) - she took it all in a lot worse than me. Yet she was a great woman, and she's set a standard for me, not to mention a reminder that there are great women out there in the world, my negativity and bitterness are all gone. Yet, despite this, I don't feel the need to pursue any further relationships.
> 
> As great as my relationship was, I feel relationships seem... overrated. With past relationships I always chalked it up to the flaws of the women I was with but not this time, this time I actually found someone who well... had nothing wrong with her! Yet I feel relieved actually that she left, that she gave me an excuse to end things (I don't do distance - yet she never did anything bad by me), that I now have freedom, one less worry from my mind, one less responsibility. Yet, everyone - and I mean EVERYONE, seems to question my newfound embrace of a "single-by-choice" lifestyle.
> 
> I needed this relationship I guess, as an experience to realise who I am and what my true desires are, and they don't lie in companionship. My spirit has always been independent and I never needed anyone in my life since adulthood. But why is society so programmed to think something is wrong with you when you are "single-by-choice", they chalk it up to "bitterness", "playing tough", "lying to oneself", like really? Almost makes me want to go "none of your business" when people ask about my personal life but then that's rude. As a society we have grown to be tolerant, accepting and respectful of other people's lifestyle, yet single-by-choice is yet to be one of these "accepted" lifestyles... why?
> 
> :scratchhead:


I quote the original post to remind everyone including especially myself what the thread is about. It is not about proving how happy we are, or about proving how unhappy someone else must be. It's not a quest to find a hidden agenda. The question of this thread is simply, among all of the accepted lifestyles including monogamy, homosexual monogamy. polyamory, age divergent, drive divergent, power structured, and who knows what, *"why is single by choice not accepted?"* The detractors have proven that they do not accept this life style, and the supporters have proven that they do indeed choose this lifestyle, but no one has addressed why it is that they are unable to accept his lifestyle except to say "they’re jealous".

I'm going to add a story to the list of supporters who do chose this lifestyle. My Daughter is free of relationship entanglement. It is possible that there is something "wrong" with her. If so it is not likely that it is something that could be cured by therapy, medication, or prayer. She has a personality type INTJ. She may be mildly autistic. She is by self-report asexual. She may be, by my observation, unromantic. She was accused of homosexuality by peers in High School. The attending events left her with PTSD severe enough to lose a year in university. You may say she is single by disability, but I would argue that she certainly has and continues to choose singleness. She follows the family religion which encourages marriage. In fact they separate out single people between the age of 18 and 30. They are put in their own congregation which includes activities and ministry focused on getting them married. Due to the pressure of this group She did for quite some time avoid attending church or church activities. She limited herself to one choir group. Even there she was asked out on a date. She appreciated the effort even though she knew there was no future in it. 

She is now a little more than three years from the 30 line. Since she has left school (graduating in one more quarter of internet courses) her current plan is to present her case to the new church leaders and see if she can get an exception, and go to a family congregation. She probably will be turned down again.

I tell you this story to show the damage that can be done when you try to wedge someone into a lifestyle that just isn't going to fit them. To answer the original question, it is probably not so much a question of if it will be accepted but when will it be accepted. Asexual people are banding together to promote awareness. As those efforts start to show fruit, single by choice will also gain acceptance. I know they are not the same but both are simple lifestyles that harm no one. They merely exclude themselves from the overwhelming pool of available persons. People who chose to be in relations need to accept that although they are in a huge majority, that there are people who are not like them. And, that being different is not necessarily bad. 

There have always been people who choose singleness. I would remind the Christians that Paul was one of them. In the past they have been known as bachelors, or hermits, or monks. They were accepted as members of the community. Some were able to serve the community in important functions. In what way is society benefited by Curing this?


----------



## Hope Shimmers

Mr. Nail said:


> I quote the original post to remind everyone including especially myself what the thread is about. It is not about proving how happy we are, or about proving how unhappy someone else must be. It's not a quest to find a hidden agenda. The question of this thread is simply, among all of the accepted lifestyles including monogamy, homosexual monogamy. polyamory, age divergent, drive divergent, power structured, and who knows what, *"why is single by choice not accepted?"* The detractors have proven that they do not accept this life style, and the supporters have proven that they do indeed choose this lifestyle, but no one has addressed why it is that they are unable to accept his lifestyle except to say "they’re jealous".
> 
> I'm going to add a story to the list of supporters who do chose this lifestyle. My Daughter is free of relationship entanglement. It is possible that there is something "wrong" with her. If so it is not likely that it is something that could be cured by therapy, medication, or prayer. She has a personality type INTJ. She may be mildly autistic. She is by self-report asexual. She may be, by my observation, unromantic. She was accused of homosexuality by peers in High School. The attending events left her with PTSD severe enough to lose a year in university. You may say she is single by disability, but I would argue that she certainly has and continues to choose singleness. She follows the family religion which encourages marriage. In fact they separate out single people between the age of 18 and 30. They are put in their own congregation which includes activities and ministry focused on getting them married. Due to the pressure of this group She did for quite some time avoid attending church or church activities. She limited herself to one choir group. Even there she was asked out on a date. She appreciated the effort even though she knew there was no future in it.
> 
> She is now a little more than three years from the 30 line. Since she has left school (graduating in one more quarter of internet courses) her current plan is to present her case to the new church leaders and see if she can get an exception, and go to a family congregation. She probably will be turned down again.
> 
> I tell you this story to show the damage that can be done when you try to wedge someone into a lifestyle that just isn't going to fit them. To answer the original question, it is probably not so much a question of if it will be accepted but when will it be accepted. Asexual people are banding together to promote awareness. As those efforts start to show fruit, single by choice will also gain acceptance. I know they are not the same but both are simple lifestyles that harm no one. They merely exclude themselves from the overwhelming pool of available persons. People who chose to be in relations need to accept that although they are in a huge majority, that there are people who are not like them. And, that being different is not necessarily bad.
> 
> There have always been people who choose singleness. I would remind the Christians that Paul was one of them. In the past they have been known as bachelors, or hermits, or monks. They were accepted as members of the community. Some were able to serve the community in important functions. In what way is society benefited by Curing this?


Well, I think your daughter needs a new church. That's really pathetic (segregating single people and trying to get them married). I feel sorry for what she had to go through; I'm sure it was damaging. You've just given me another reason why I will never get involved with organized religion.

I don't have any problem with people who choose to be single. I guess some people do, as evidenced by your church story. Maybe it all stems from the Bible and societal beliefs. What I personally was trying to say is that I felt the same way ten years ago when I got my divorce, but I no longer do. Having too much "freedom" (which I guess here is being defined as being able to do what you want to do, when you want to do it?) can lead to it becoming old and it no longer has the allure that it did when it was a bit more rare.

I also was kind of surprised to notice that some of the "supporters" on this thread seem to have been in ball-and-chain type marriages/relationships where they weren't allowed any free time and all their time was dictated by their partner. That's sad, and it was never my own experience. I can see why the single life would be more appealing after that.


----------



## Mr. Nail

Hope Shimmers said:


> Well, I think your daughter needs a new church. .


Good idea, any one want to direct me to a church that encourages young people to stay single? Or even one that doesn't have a youth ministry?


----------



## Rowan

Mr. Nail said:


> Good idea, any one want to direct me to a church that encourages young people to stay single? Or even one that doesn't have a youth ministry?


Have you considered Methodist, Episcopalian, Southern Baptist, Primitive Baptist, Catholic, Christian, AME, or Presbyterian churches? All the churches I've ever attended, and all the ones all my friends and acquaintances attend, have a youth ministry - but they do not require the young adults to be segregated into it. Youth ministry offers extra activities and programs for the young people. But everyone attends the same church services. Sunday School services tend to be grouped into age brackets, and the musical/dramatic/special service programs tend to be grouped by age, ability, or personal inclination. None of the young people have to attend separate services or activities. The youth programs are an added offering, rather than a required segregation. I've never even _heard_ of a young single person needing permission to attend family services. 

And while they all denounce pre-marital sex, none of them are particularly bent on forcing the young people to marry. There's no real concerted effort - beyond the common busyness of the bored older ladies who enjoy matchmaking - to pair up the young people for marriage. Many of the larger churches, or groups of churches, will get together and organize singles mixers. But, again, it's an entirely voluntary event that is more in the nature of a barbecue full of single folks of similar religious persuasion, than a forced march toward matrimony.


----------



## Diana7

Mr. Nail said:


> Good idea, any one want to direct me to a church that encourages young people to stay single? Or even one that doesn't have a youth ministry?


I have never been to a church that pressures anyone to get married. A youth group is usually for teenagers, not adults.


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## jorgegene

i think there is a stigma against singleness. i think there always will be.

why? because it goes against the grain. most people want to get married and almost (every?) culture pushes marriage, or at least togetherness.
i would lump into this category any persons who are in a serious relationship, and even to some degree, those that date, because they're not truly single, in the sense that
society gives more acceptance to even a 'player', than one who doesn't even have partners.

anyone who chooses their own path and walks against the wind will have to face the extra pressure that comes with that.

as a anecdotal evidence of this, consider this: we live in a very tolerant society compared to almost every other society in history.
but still, we have bigotry, and predjudice. it will always be with us.

so be it. know thyself. choose your own path. own it, and go with it and buck wind as best you can. you will be happier for it.


----------



## RandomDude

Wonder what is the best solution or response really, like if people keep asking about my personal life should I start adopting a friendly-hostile stance by going "none of your business", or continue to make people think something is wrong with me by declaring I'm happy the way I am without any strings attached? Some people have good intentions, but they lack understanding of my perspective, which makes me choose the latter.

Still annoying though.


----------



## Rowan

_"I'm not dating anyone special right now. I'm enjoying single life too much. Maybe someday." 
_
Say it with a smile and an air of pleasant confidence. No, it's not the whole truth, could be vaguely misleading, and you're not making a firm stand for singledom. But, honestly, most people who ask questions regarding your romantic life are doing it much the same way they would ask "How are you?" They don't really want a detailed or factual answer, but rather to hear that you're doing well in a pleasant tone, whether that's the truth or not. I'm not sure most people need, or even want, the whole truth. And taking a stand by trying to explain it to people will do little more than frustrate and aggravate you. A breezy statement that you're not seeing anyone special but are happy and might someday 'settle down' (whether you intend to or not) should go along way toward deflecting most people. Just keep in mind that there's a different between actually answering a question and merely responding to it in a polite fashion. Most folks are happy enough to accept the vague response rather than digging for an actual answer, so don't feel compelled to give them the latter when the former is all that's required. 

Those that aren't deflected and continue to pry, probably deserve something along the lines of "I really prefer not to discuss my private life with you." It's not rude, exactly, but it's direct and unarguable.


----------



## RandomDude

Outer circle doesn't really matter true, but inner circle pressures are much stronger I guess, which is difficult as the lines of "I really prefer not to discuss my private life with you" is still pretty much telling your mates to fk off


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## MrsHolland

Just tell them you are "happily single".

Post divorce my relationship status was "happily divorced". It tells people you are happy and also cuts off the conversation politely if you don't wish to discuss it any further.


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## RandomDude

Heh to my inner circle there doesn't seem to be an understanding of "happily single", they mean well but it gets frustrating I guess having to defend my lifestyle. Maybe I should just do a purge like I did the last time I had major disagreements within my circles, find other like-minded folks to replace them.


----------



## honcho

RandomDude said:


> Wonder what is the best solution or response really, like if people keep asking about my personal life should I start adopting a friendly-hostile stance by going "none of your business", or continue to make people think something is wrong with me by declaring I'm happy the way I am without any strings attached? Some people have good intentions, but they lack understanding of my perspective, which makes me choose the latter.
> 
> Still annoying though.


I'm incredibly sarcastic irl so when I used to get this question my answer was something along the lines that "if your the picture of happily married I'll stay single". They quit asking then.>

Maybe it's just my friends but I've never had a married guy friend when not with his wife sit around and tell me how great married life is. When their wives are around they may but never alone.


----------



## jackalope1963

Diana7 said:


> I live in the UK. I hardly know any Christians who are divorced, the percentage here is very low compared to those who dont go to church and aren't Christians. I would say about 5% compared to 40%.


:scratchhead:
Where did these numbers come from? The 5% compared to 40%? 

*By the way i know of many Christians that are divorced and many that are unhappily married.*


----------



## jorgegene

RandomDude said:


> Outer circle doesn't really matter true, but inner circle pressures are much stronger I guess, which is difficult as the lines of "I really prefer not to discuss my private life with you" is still pretty much telling your mates to fk off


Yes, back in the day, I had a friend who would annoyingly ask me every time he saw me
"So, how's your love life?"

rather than say "non-existant!", I would just say "fine!" Which was the truth, cause it was fine being non-existent. Fortunately, he wouldn't press further than that.


----------



## Diana7

When I was a single mum for 6 years between my marriages, not one person ever asked about my love life or if I wanted to meet anyone else. I never felt any sort of pressure to get married or meet someone. Being that a very large percentage of the adult population are now single(more than ever), I see no stigma or problems at all. One of my three children is still single in their 30's. They haven't had any such comments or felt pressured to get married, although they would love to.


----------



## Diana7

jackalope1963 said:


> :scratchhead:
> Where did these numbers come from? The 5% compared to 40%?
> 
> *By the way i know of many Christians that are divorced and many that are unhappily married.*


 Going by the many hundreds of people i have known, and the many divorces. 
How many Christians do you know really well? I know so many, and many of them have good marriages and hardly any are divorced. Among the non believers I have known, the divorce rate is high. There are so many long term strong marriages in the church. All of my Christian friends have been married for well over 30 years now.


----------



## Diana7

honcho said:


> I'm incredibly sarcastic irl so when I used to get this question my answer was something along the lines that "if your the picture of happily married I'll stay single". They quit asking then.>
> 
> Maybe it's just my friends but I've never had a married guy friend when not with his wife sit around and tell me how great married life is. When their wives are around they may but never alone.


 Talk to my husband then, he hated being single and loves married. We know so many men who are happily married. So yes maybe it's just your friends.


----------



## MrsHolland

Diana7 said:


> Going by the many hundreds of people i have known, and the many divorces.
> How many Christians do you know really well? I know so many, and many of them have good marriages and hardly any are divorced. Among the non believers I have known, the divorce rate is high. There are so many long term strong marriages in the church. All of my Christian friends have been married for well over 30 years now.


You and your husband are on your second marriages. So there are two Christians that were unhappy and got divorced.


----------



## Diana7

MrsHolland said:


> You and your husband are on your second marriages. So there are two Christians that were unhappy and got divorced.


We didn't divorce because we were unhappy, and my ex-wasn't a Christian and nor was I when we married. My husband and his ex are one of the very few Christian couples I know who are divorced. It's pretty rare in the UK where I live, for a couple who are both practising Christians to divorce.


----------



## MrsHolland

Diana7 said:


> We didn't divorce because we were unhappy, and my ex-wasn't a Christian and nor was I when we married. My husband and his ex are one of the very few Christian couples I know who are divorced. It's pretty rare in the UK where I live, for a couple who are both practising Christians to divorce.


So you and your ex were happy when you got divorced? Okey dokey, that's unique.

I would take a guess that even if it were true that Christians remained married more than Non religious that there will be many, many unhappy marriages within the religious community. There is no glory in remaining in a marriage because you fear ending the marriage.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

I would be 100% happy with either. Being single forever or being with the right man. 

I ended up finding the right man. I do need my alone time though and I'm nervous about what happens when things progress and there's moving in. I need time alone and silence. 
Part of me can't wait until I'm with him all the time but I do worry about how I'll get my space.


----------



## Personal

RandomDude said:


> Heh to my inner circle there doesn't seem to be an understanding of "happily single", they mean well but it gets frustrating I guess having to defend my lifestyle. Maybe I should just do a purge like I did the last time I had major disagreements within my circles, find other like-minded folks to replace them.


I think it's a shame that you feel you need to defend your lifestyle.

My wife and I have a few close single and divorced friends who are not in ongoing romantic relationships. Except for one of those friends, we've never thought they were broken or are missing out on anything by being single.

The broken one is very unhappy with her life and wants to have a romantic partner without ever having sex. She suffers from a chronic brain disorder and suffers from anxiety and depression. While also having significant religious hangups, ongoing family of origin problems, and is asexual as well (mid 40s virgin).

All of the others who aren't broken both male and female are happy and are a pleasure to be around, to the point that we enjoy sharing their company as a couple and on our own.

If you're happy with your relationship choices, it shouldn't matter to anyone else if you choose to be single or not.


----------



## Personal

Diana7 said:


> I live in the UK. I hardly know any Christians who are divorced, the percentage here is very low compared to those who dont go to church and aren't Christians. I would say about 5% compared to 40%.





jackalope1963 said:


> :scratchhead:
> Where did these numbers come from? The 5% compared to 40%?


Those numbers come from her own imagination.


----------



## MrsHolland

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I would be 100% happy with either. Being single forever or being with the right man.
> 
> I ended up finding the right man. I do need my alone time though and I'm nervous about what happens when things progress and there's moving in. I need time alone and silence.
> Part of me can't wait until I'm with him all the time but I do worry about how I'll get my space.


Totally agree, for me post divorce it was all or nothing. I have had some very happy periods of singleness and would rather be single than in an unhappy relationship. So entering into what has become an excellent relationship/marriage it had to be the perfect relationship for me. (perfect does not mean without challenges BTW, it means we have fantastic times but deal with our challenges with love, respect and commitment). 

As for alone time, we both need it and get it. It is a matter of stating this upfront and understanding what that means to each partner.


----------



## RandomDude

Personal said:


> I think it's a shame that you feel you need to defend your lifestyle.
> 
> My wife and I have a few close single and divorced friends who are not in ongoing romantic relationships. Except for one of those friends, we've never thought they were broken or are missing out on anything by being single.
> 
> The broken one is very unhappy with her life and wants to have a romantic partner without ever having sex. She suffers from a chronic brain disorder and suffers from anxiety and depression. While also having significant religious hangups, ongoing family of origin problems, and is asexual as well (mid 40s virgin).
> 
> All of the others who aren't broken both male and female are happy and are a pleasure to be around, to the point that we enjoy sharing their company as a couple and on our own.
> 
> If you're happy with your relationship choices, it shouldn't matter to anyone else if you choose to be single or not.


One suggested that others may find me selfish as well which is annoying since the biggest benefactor of my work by FAR is my daughter and I prefer to live a humble, quiet life now in my 30s.

They understand my reasons not to drink, but not my reasons not to get hitched! lol


----------



## jackalope1963

Diana7 said:


> Going by the many hundreds of people i have known, and the many divorces.


Well it looks and sounds like these are numbers that you just assigned arbitrarily. In other words, you made them up. Please understand I am not attacking you, many people do this to support their point of view. The problem is that this makes your evidence anecdotal at best. What it seems like to me you are trying to say that any “normal” person would want to be in a relationship and if you are not in a relationship then you are wired wrong or abnormal. You are also saying that as a “rule” for you to have a successful relationship you must accept God and Christ in your life. That way you will live happily ever after.

*I draw to these conclusions because of the shaming language that you have used throughout your commits in the discussion. Let me add, if you would like me to point those out the shamming language, I will gladly do it.*




Diana7 said:


> How many Christians do you know really well? I know so many, and many of them have good marriages and hardly any are divorced. Among the non believers I have known, the divorce rate is high. There are so many long term strong marriages in the church. All of my Christian friends have been married for well over 30 years now.


I actually know many Christians. I will rephrase that; I know many people who say they are Christian. Too what level they are Christian, I do not know nor is it a concern of mine. Bottom line I don’t care, I just take them at their word.

OP,

Society does not like happy single people; that is why you get so much negative feedback from people about being single. Understand being happily single does not fit the narrative of the only way to be happy is to be a couple. 

*When I got divorced in 2008, I had many of my friend’s wives try to fix me up with one of their single friends. This was annoying on so many levels. What is funny as time went on they expected me to be this sad lonely winy shell of a man. They did not expect or want to see the opposite. This resulted in many of the wives trying to keep their husbands away from me. Unfortunately it worked some cases. But life goes on.*

About me:

I was unhappily married for 13 years

Happily divorced since 2008

I am 53 years old…Oh oh that means I will soon be a lonely old man! Woos me Woos me I better find that soulmate soon! Lol!!!


----------



## Stang197

I think society tries to shame single people because of economic reasons. Married people tend to work harder therefore make more money. Then they usually have kids which further helps grow the economy. They by overpriced homes way out in the suburbs and therefore pay more in property taxes and gas taxes. They spend more on going out to eat and buying presents for their growing family. They put their kids throughh overpriced colleges. 
After the kids move out they hire a real estate agent to unload their McMansion and by a condo. They then have to spend more money on redecorating the new place.
And that is if all goes well. If the relationship falls apart, they then have to blow their retirement on lawyers, forensic accountants, counseling, and so on to support a bloated divorce and child support scam. It's all for economic growth.


----------



## Ynot

MrsHolland said:


> So you and your ex were happy when you got divorced? Okey dokey, that's unique.
> 
> I would take a guess that even if it were true that Christians remained married more than Non religious that there will be many, many unhappy marriages within the religious community. There is no glory in remaining in a marriage because you fear ending the marriage.


But we all know we must suffer in this life to live in God's glory in the next - haha!


----------



## jackalope1963

Stang197 said:


> I think society tries to shame single people because of economic reasons. Married people tend to work harder therefore make more money. Then they usually have kids which further helps grow the economy. They by overpriced homes way out in the suburbs and therefore pay more in property taxes and gas taxes. They spend more on going out to eat and buying presents for their growing family. They put their kids throughh overpriced colleges.
> After the kids move out they hire a real estate agent to unload their McMansion and by a condo. They then have to spend more money on redecorating the new place.
> And that is if all goes well. If the relationship falls apart, they then have to blow their retirement on lawyers, forensic accountants, counseling, and so on to support a bloated divorce and child support scam. It's all for economic growth.


You summed it up. This is what it is all about. Economics. When i was married, we bought a lot of useless crap that I don't even like thinking about.


----------



## Ynot

Stang197 said:


> I think society tries to shame single people because of economic reasons. Married people tend to work harder therefore make more money. Then they usually have kids which further helps grow the economy. They by overpriced homes way out in the suburbs and therefore pay more in property taxes and gas taxes. They spend more on going out to eat and buying presents for their growing family. They put their kids throughh overpriced colleges.
> After the kids move out they hire a real estate agent to unload their McMansion and by a condo. They then have to spend more money on redecorating the new place.
> And that is if all goes well. If the relationship falls apart, they then have to blow their retirement on lawyers, forensic accountants, counseling, and so on to support a bloated divorce and child support scam. It's all for economic growth.


While much of that is true on the surface, the reality is that singles are often shamed because otherwise all those folks who are now unhappily married would decide to get divorced. I think there is huge element of jealousy and fear involved in the societal shaming of singles. It almost like a certain Christian continually telling us how bad we all are since we are not like her. It is the idea that we must make the same choices (good, bad or otherwise) that everyone else makes or there must be something wrong with us. Thankfully many are waking up to the con job that modern marriage has become. For the most part it is no longer necessary for day to day survival or even child rearing. But it has become a huge money maker for both the wedding industry and the divorce industry.


----------



## Ynot

jackalope1963 said:


> You summed it up. This is what it is all about. Economics. When i was married, we bought a lot of useless crap that I don't even like thinking about.


When I got divorced I rented a 30 cubic yard dumpster to toss all of the useless crap we had accumulated in 24 years of marriage. When they hauled it away it was filled to the top.


----------



## jackalope1963

Ynot, Lol!!!! I rented and kept a 5x10 storage space for two years full of crap until I ask myself why am I paying for this? I hired a junk removal service got the crap out of the space and never looked back!


----------



## MrsHolland

jackalope1963 said:


> Well it looks and sounds like these are numbers that you just assigned arbitrarily. In other words, you made them up. Please understand I am not attacking you, many people do this to support their point of view. The problem is that this makes your evidence anecdotal at best. What it seems like to me you are trying to say that any “normal” person would want to be in a relationship and if you are not in a relationship then you are wired wrong or abnormal. You are also saying that as a “rule” for you to have a successful relationship you must accept God and Christ in your life. That way you will live happily ever after.
> 
> *I draw to these conclusions because of the shaming language that you have used throughout your commits in the discussion. Let me add, if you would like me to point those out the shamming language, I will gladly do it.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I actually know many Christians. I will rephrase that; I know many people who say they are Christian. Too what level they are Christian, I do not know nor is it a concern of mine. Bottom line I don’t care, I just take them at their word...................................


I see you are new here Jack, hello.

You are spot on with your words above. Diana has made many statements that clarify her POV that only Christian men are good men. People that are non religious are of poor moral character. Christians are superior people to the rest of us. 

I tend to glaze over at her opinions as they are so judgmental and have zero credibility.


----------



## MrsHolland

Ynot said:


> But we all know we must suffer in this life to live in God's glory in the next - haha!


well I was never going to get a front row seat anyway as I am a Heathen. TBH I would rather live a great life in the here and now than be fooled into suffering for the (possible) next life.


----------



## Ynot

jackalope1963 said:


> Ynot, Lol!!!! I rented and kept a 5x10 storage space for two years full of crap until I ask myself why am I paying for this? I hired a junk removal service got the crap out of the space and never looked back!


My ex actually asked me to rent a storage unit with her. I refused. She still rented one. I never saw it, but from the way she described it, it was packed to the gills with junk that had sat around in our basement for years. Pieces of rotted out furniture that used to be long to her grandparents and other stuff she had no need for. I molted and got rid of anything and everything (probably too much) that I had. Then when I moved from my apartment into my house I molted again. I like living simpler now. I always hated the clutter. Anything that I have now, has a lot more story behind it than "It's from Hobby Lobby"


----------



## Diana7

MrsHolland said:


> So you and your ex were happy when you got divorced? Okey dokey, that's unique.
> 
> I would take a guess that even if it were true that Christians remained married more than Non religious that there will be many, many unhappy marriages within the religious community. There is no glory in remaining in a marriage because you fear ending the marriage.


The reason the marriage ended wasn't because of the relationship between the 2 of us, it was something outside of that. 
Christians dont stay married out of fear, but because they believe in the promises that they made and that God is able to restore all things. There may be some unhappy marriages, but that applies to non-believers as well of couse.


----------



## Ynot

Diana7 said:


> The reason the marriage ended wasn't because of the relationship between the 2 of us, it was something outside of that.
> Christians dont stay married out of fear, but because they believe in the promises that they made and that God is able to restore all things. There may be some unhappy marriages, but that applies to non-believers as well of couse.


I hate to break this to you, but Christians become Christians out of fear,, so anything that said Christian does from that point forward is due to fear. The fear of spending eternity burning in hell. If it were otherwise there would be no need to spread the word of eternal damnation. The same holds true for every other made up religion.


----------



## Bananapeel

RD - enjoy your singledom! I'm in the same boat and usually when people ask my status I just tell them I'm dating but haven't committed to anyone yet because my priority and focus now is my kids. Incidentally, that is also what I tell women I date so they understand I'm not looking to get married or even heavily intertwined with our lives at this point, although that could change after my kids are older and don't require as much of my focus as they do now. I also have friends that want to set me up, but it's not about them wanting to see me married because there is some special happiness that comes with being married. It's more about there being a shortage of good quality guys for their female friends and I'm basically just fresh meat. Anyway, as you know your desires change so whatever you decide lasts only as long as it takes for you to change your mind. There's no harm in that at all.


----------



## jackalope1963

MrsHolland said:


> I see you are new here Jack, hello.
> 
> You are spot on with your words above. Diana has made many statements that clarify her POV that only Christian men are good men. People that are non religious are of poor moral character. Christians are superior people to the rest of us.
> 
> I tend to glaze over at her opinions as they are so judgmental and have zero credibility.


Lol! Thank you for the insight. I will take this as advice and follow suit.


----------



## Mr. Nail

This thread is really not addressing the question still. I am starting to lean towards the idea that a religion that holds as it's central belief love of others, is in large part responsible for lifestyle intolerance's. I'm actually not a believer in universal tolerance. But there is very little point in trying to repair a single person. 

Once again, Paul.


----------



## Diana7

Ynot said:


> I hate to break this to you, but Christians become Christians out of fear,, so anything that said Christian does from that point forward is due to fear. The fear of spending eternity burning in hell. If it were otherwise there would be no need to spread the word of eternal damnation. The same holds true for every other made up religion.


I hate to break it to you, but thats not true. I became a Christian because I wanted to know God better and be a better person. Fear has never come into my faith. Nor do I know a Christian who came to God through fear but because of love. Life with Him is so much better than life without.


----------



## arbitrator

*Let's just say that I am leaning quite heavily toward bachelorhood primarily because I am literally scared crapless of embracing marital failure and cheating for yet a third time!

I would, no doubt, offer to give my eye teeth for a loving woman who I can unequivocally trust, but in my present mindset, that just ain't happening! And likely will never!*


----------



## Ynot

Diana7 said:


> I hate to break it to you, but thats not true. I became a Christian because I wanted to know God better and be a better person. Fear has never come into my faith. Nor do I know a Christian who came to God through fear but because of love. Life with Him is so much better than life without.


If you wanted to know God better you certainly didn't need someone else's roadmap ie religion to guide you. And again you show how sheltered or rather blindered you are in not understanding that Christianity as well as all revealed religions are totally and completely based on fear and control. Jesus loves you, unless you do one of these things and then you are going to rot in Hell for all of eternity. No thanks, I will take my chances with a more reasonable deity. OTOH, it is great that you allow someone else to think for you. It is probably for the best, but please stop acting as though this makes you superior to others, because that is definitely not the Christian thing to do.


----------



## Elizabeth001

Ynot said:


> If you wanted to know God better you certainly didn't need someone else's roadmap ie religion to guide you. And again you show how sheltered or rather blindered you are in not understanding that Christianity as well as all revealed religions are totally and completely based on fear and control. Jesus loves you, unless you do one of these things and then you are going to rot in Hell for all of eternity. No thanks, I will take my chances with a more reasonable deity. OTOH, it is great that you allow someone else to think for you. It is probably for the best, but please stop acting as though this makes you superior to others, because that is definitely not the Christian thing to do.




Quoting because it bears worth repeating. Not that it will sink in for some folks 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Diana7

Ynot said:


> If you wanted to know God better you certainly didn't need someone else's roadmap ie religion to guide you. And again you show how sheltered or rather blindered you are in not understanding that Christianity as well as all revealed religions are totally and completely based on fear and control. Jesus loves you, unless you do one of these things and then you are going to rot in Hell for all of eternity. No thanks, I will take my chances with a more reasonable deity. OTOH, it is great that you allow someone else to think for you. It is probably for the best, but please stop acting as though this makes you superior to others, because that is definitely not the Christian thing to do.


Religion didn't show me, my journey has been following Jesus Christ and having an amazing Heavenly Father.I have had many years away from the church in the past, just Him and me. Fear has never entered into my faith. No I am not sheltered or blinded, I have almost certainly been through far more in life than you have, before I was blinded, now I am free. 
I don't feel superior at all, I just know that we all need Jesus Christ.


----------



## Diana7

Elizabeth001 said:


> Quoting because it bears worth repeating. Not that it will sink in for some folks
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 I am not going to give up Jesus for you or anyone else. Its the best decision I ever made.


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## Elizabeth001

Diana7 said:


> I am not going to give up Jesus for you or anyone else. Its the best decision I ever made.




Trust me...I believe you!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Elizabeth001

Diana7 said:


> I have almost certainly been through far more in life than you have...
> 
> 
> ...I don't feel superior at all...



Mmmmm K. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MrsHolland

Diana7 said:


> Religion didn't show me, my journey has been following Jesus Christ and having an amazing Heavenly Father.I have had many years away from the church in the past, just Him and me. Fear has never entered into my faith. No I am not sheltered or blinded, I have almost certainly been through far more in life than you have, before I was blinded, now I am free.
> *I don't feel superior at all, I just know that we all need Jesus Christ.*


lol this statement is grand. You don't feel superior yet you are telling us what you know we need. Sorry JC is not fact, religion is a belief system, not fact. I certainly don't need JC or want religion. My kids don't either.

All power to people that choose to follow a belief system but don't tell others what they need. If you were confident in your beliefs then it would be for you, a personal decision. As it is you come across as thinking you are a superior being but to people that do not blindly believe that fiction is fact your words come from a place of misdirected superiority not a kind place.


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## MrsHolland

Diana7 said:


> I am not going to give up Jesus for you or anyone else. Its the best decision I ever made.


No one suggested you give up your beliefs. What you struggle to understand is that you are supremely judgmental because of your beliefs. Sorry to be the mere mortal to break this to you but you are no better or worse than anyone else because you are religious. Still shaking my head over your comments that christian men are better men than non religious men, yet no comment on priests that molest children, that's one of the whackiest things I have ever read here.


----------



## Ynot

Diana7 said:


> . No I am not sheltered or blinded, I have almost certainly been through far more in life than you have, before I was blinded, now I am free.
> I don't feel superior at all, I just know that we all need Jesus Christ.


You are so full of your self you can't even see your foolishness. You don't know jack squat about me or what I have been through in my life yet you pontificate. You are the epitome of the "holier than thou" Christian who gives a bad name to the religion.


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## Stang197

All this talk about Christianity is a little weird considering what this post is all about. I am not particularly religious but have respect for people's beliefs. But in the context of this thread it seams odd because the God of Christianity would not get married. In fact it was Paul, if I remember correctly , that stated being unmarried was preferable over being married. Forgive me if I got that wrong. My point is that Christians of all people shouldn't shame any one for this decision. There are a lot of good reasons to stay single. There have been s lot of people who used pent up sexual energy creating awesome music, incredible new technology , and extremely helpful philosophy. It might be better for society in the long run if more people took this route.


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## Diana7

Elizabeth001 said:


> Mmmmm K.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


yep.


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## RandomDude

I'm glad for the support in this thread, helps me feel normal in a world that thinks something has gone bonkers in me. Well... something has, but not in this way.


----------



## Diana7

Stang197 said:


> All this talk about Christianity is a little weird considering what this post is all about. I am not particularly religious but have respect for people's beliefs. But in the context of this thread it seams odd because the God of Christianity would not get married. In fact it was Paul, if I remember correctly , that stated being unmarried was preferable over being married. Forgive me if I got that wrong. My point is that Christians of all people shouldn't shame any one for this decision. There are a lot of good reasons to stay single. There have been s lot of people who used pent up sexual energy creating awesome music, incredible new technology , and extremely helpful philosophy. It might be better for society in the long run if more people took this route.


 Jesus had rather more important things to do!
I dont think that Christians do shame people who are single, at least not in my experience. I have single friends and 2 of our 5 children are single in their 30's. 
In the UK where I live there are more single people than ever due to divorce and people not getting married. I don't see it as an issue at all.:scratchhead:


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## Diana7

RandomDude said:


> I'm glad for the support in this thread, helps me feel normal in a world that thinks something has gone bonkers in me. Well... something has, but not in this way.


Why let what some others think bother you? If I was happy single I wouldn't care that a few people thought it strange. There are loads of single people out there, some by choice and some because they haven't met anyone yet.


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## RandomDude

Inner circle

Time to purge it and reset it I guess, again


----------



## foolscotton3

Stang197 said:


> All this talk about Christianity is a little weird considering what this post is all about. I am not particularly religious but have respect for people's beliefs. But in the context of this thread it seams odd because the God of Christianity would not get married. In fact it was Paul, if I remember correctly , that stated being unmarried was preferable over being married. Forgive me if I got that wrong. My point is that Christians of all people shouldn't shame any one for this decision. There are a lot of good reasons to stay single. There have been s lot of people who used pent up sexual energy creating awesome music, incredible new technology , and extremely helpful philosophy. It might be better for society in the long run if more people took this route.


I think the whole premise of the Judean faith is that God is married to Israel, and like wise Jesus is married to the entire Christian Church. That is how Christians become co-heirs to the Kingdom of God, they are married to his Son...

Pretty sure I got that right.

Sent from my Z799VL using Tapatalk


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## MrsHolland

foolscotton3 said:


> I think the whole premise of the Judean faith is that God is married to Israel, and like wise Jesus is married to the entire Christian Church. That is how Christians become co-heirs to the Kingdom of God, they are married to his Son...
> 
> Pretty sure I got that right.
> 
> Sent from my Z799VL using Tapatalk


I think you left out Santa and the Tooth fairy.


----------



## Wolf1974

Diana7 said:


> I hate to break it to you, but thats not true. I became a Christian because I wanted to know God better and be a better person. Fear has never come into my faith. Nor do I know a Christian who came to God through fear but because of love. *Life with Him is so much better than life without*.


You can keep him and the religion far as I am concerned. My life improved once I left the church once it sided with my WS. Morality from the chuch is selective at best.


----------



## Stang197

foolscotton3 said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> All this talk about Christianity is a little weird considering what this post is all about. I am not particularly religious but have respect for people's beliefs. But in the context of this thread it seams odd because the God of Christianity would not get married. In fact it was Paul, if I remember correctly , that stated being unmarried was preferable over being married. Forgive me if I got that wrong. My point is that Christians of all people shouldn't shame any one for this decision. There are a lot of good reasons to stay single. There have been s lot of people who used pent up sexual energy creating awesome music, incredible new technology , and extremely helpful philosophy. It might be better for society in the long run if more people took this route.
> 
> 
> 
> I think the whole premise of the Judean faith is that God is married to Israel, and like wise Jesus is married to the entire Christian Church. That is how Christians become co-heirs to the Kingdom of God, they are married to his Son...
> 
> Pretty sure I got that right.
> 
> Sent from my Z799VL using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I get that. What about Paul's comments on it being preferable to remain unmarried?


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## Stang197

Here's a link to a Christian man's view of modern marriages. Sounds like some christians might be changing their views. https://youtu.be/k_wZUPyplhQ


----------



## Mostlycontent

Stang197 said:


> All this talk about Christianity is a little weird considering what this post is all about. I am not particularly religious but have respect for people's beliefs. But in the context of this thread it seams odd because the God of Christianity would not get married. In fact it was Paul, if I remember correctly , that stated being unmarried was preferable over being married. Forgive me if I got that wrong. My point is that Christians of all people shouldn't shame any one for this decision. There are a lot of good reasons to stay single. There have been s lot of people who used pent up sexual energy creating awesome music, incredible new technology , and extremely helpful philosophy. It might be better for society in the long run if more people took this route.



You're not wrong. That's exactly what he said, however, one must understand context. He said it was preferable to remain single so that you could serve God more fully. Without a wife or family, you would be more free to serve God completely. That's what he meant and that's what Paul actually did as he was not married.

If you're only single so that you can live your life by yourself and for yourself, well, that seems pretty empty to me.


----------



## Mostlycontent

MrsHolland said:


> I think you left out Santa and the Tooth fairy.



It's rather offensive when you make these inferences but downright insulting from someone who's blind to truth. An atheist belittling someone else is comical, as the fool should never be allowed to open their mouth, let alone mock someone else.


----------



## MrsHolland

Mostlycontent said:


> It's rather offensive when you make these inferences but downright insulting from someone who's blind to truth. An atheist belittling someone else is comical, as the fool should never be allowed to open their mouth, let alone mock someone else.


Yes and I could say the same back. A religious person belittling someone else is comical, as the fool should never be allowed to open their mouth, let alone mock someone else.

And I am not blind to the truth, as I said earlier fact is fact, fiction is not fact.


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## Elizabeth001

@MrsHolland:

I could post a reply, but I can't think of a way to say it better than you did 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jorgegene

I am Christian, but I respect all positions, bhuddist, Islam, agnostic and atheist, et. especially if they are well considered
And not arrogant.

What I am seeing here is a high degree of arrogance on both sides. 

Doesn't advance the OP musings and considerations one iota IMHO. A pity.


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## Stang197

Not even talking about the post anymore. Talk about a threadjack. Why not start a thread on religion?


----------



## RandomDude

I gotta admit, I find this amusing  like... WTF?! lol

True that religion does play into society's expectations however, which is making me curious what lies at the end of this discussion...


----------



## MrsHolland

RandomDude said:


> I gotta admit, I find this amusing  like... WTF?! lol
> 
> True that religion does play into society's expectations however, which is making me curious what lies at the end of this discussion...


RD our most recent census showed that people that identify as non religious make up 1/3 of our population and are the fastest rising group. That reflects on the expectations of our society, the pressure to be a conformist should be decreasing which is why it surprising that you are feeling any need to justify how you wish to live you life.


----------



## RandomDude

MrsHolland said:


> RD our most recent census showed that people that identify as non religious make up 1/3 of our population and are the fastest rising group. That reflects on the expectations of our society, the pressure to be a conformist should be decreasing which is why it surprising that you are feeling any need to justify how you wish to live you life.


So 2/3s are religious? That's because they voted as Jedi 

https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2016/08/...s-their-religion-that-its-becoming-a-problem/

Anyway... religion is one part, culture is another. I noticed society is already very accepting, but single-hood? It doesn't seem to be considered an acceptable lifestyle for some reason, even here. When you were single haven't you had friends set you up, have them ask why you're single and then challenge your justifications for deciding to be single? I had it long before but since I was active sexually I was still normal but now? 

Meh, it's a first world issue, but an annoyance nonetheless.


----------



## californian

You still need to talk to somebody, don't you? Isn't it why you've come to this forum? If this does it for you, then you're all set. There's nothing wrong about being different... for as long as you don't waist other people's time. Can you be upfront with ladies you meet that you're not a marriage or a long-term dating material? Are you concerned about being fair to other people?


----------



## RandomDude

I've always been honest with them, besides I'm not having a FWB like before. I don't really have the desire anymore, my passions in life lie in my studies now and career change.


----------



## Cooper

I am 56 years old and single, I am living my life exactly how I want, I have friends and hobbies so am socially active as much as I like. Below is an email message I received last night from a friend of mine, she is one of those people who can't stand to be alone. Matter of fact we had a bit of a falling out last year when I told her my son was moving to the other side of the country, she could not believe I would let him do it without a fight (he's 24). I told her I was proud he was confident enough to do it and it is our job as parents to raise them to be resourceful and confident, not to live in our shadow forever (her kids both mid 20's, one still home the other lives about 5 minutes away). She got mad at that and I think her email was a payback. Her message was generated from a conversation we had about me being single and liking my life just the way it is, I told her I truly didn't feel like compromising all the time to be in a relationship, for once in my life I want to live life selfishly. 


""You can't imagine how sad our coversation makes me feel. You have lost your zest for living and are instead existing. Letting life happen instead of living. 

Honestly--not normal. You are much too young to be feeling this way. If I were you, I would head for the doctor and get my hormone levels checked, especially free testosterone levels. Low testosterone will do that. Maybe have thyroid checked as well. Physically, something is probably not quite right.

I think all of us have a hard time compromising. We are all individuals so it is normal. Proper hormone/thyroid levels give us the 'drive' to get past that road block. When something physical is off, we lose that 'drive'.""

I copied and pasted so it's exactly how she sent it. So to her thinking my choice of being single is because I'm sick, not normal. Now that makes me sad that she is so needy she feels anyone who wishes to be alone has something wrong with them. I'm not going to bother replying, I'm not sure how you argue with that kind of mindset.


----------



## Mr. Nail

@Cooper you bring up an interesting point that I have been looking for. I have always assumed that there were many more extroverts than introverts. Maybe a as much as a 80 - 20 split. In discussing this thread with my Daughter she brought up that recent statistics are showing introverts just slightly over 50%. So you are much more "normal" than you have been led to believe. 

On another topic the article about Jedi's in Australia illustrates one of the reasons people are so pushy about not being single. The whole point of the article was that people marking Jedi as their religion were making it look like there were less atheists. You see they weren't getting enough votes for their team. Now this is why everyone from Atheists, to Zealots will push people to get romantically involved. From Communists to Fascists, everyone wants a bigger team. The trouble with remaining single is that you aren't making new singles to swell the ranks. As the old joke illustrates, " I'm a bachelor and plan on raising my children to be the same."


----------



## RandomDude

Cooper said:


> ""You can't imagine how sad our coversation makes me feel. You have lost your zest for living and are instead existing. Letting life happen instead of living.
> 
> Honestly--not normal. You are much too young to be feeling this way. If I were you, I would head for the doctor and get my hormone levels checked, especially free testosterone levels. Low testosterone will do that. Maybe have thyroid checked as well. Physically, something is probably not quite right.
> 
> I think all of us have a hard time compromising. We are all individuals so it is normal. Proper hormone/thyroid levels give us the 'drive' to get past that road block. When something physical is off, we lose that 'drive'.""
> 
> I copied and pasted so it's exactly how she sent it. So to her thinking my choice of being single is because I'm sick, not normal. Now that makes me sad that she is so needy she feels anyone who wishes to be alone has something wrong with them. I'm not going to bother replying, I'm not sure how you argue with that kind of mindset.


ARGH! How dare she?

Meh...








> I do not have to justify,
> The way I live my life.
> I do not have to justify,
> The reason I'm alive.





Mr. Nail said:


> @Cooper you bring up an interesting point that I have been looking for. I have always assumed that there were many more extroverts than introverts. Maybe a as much as a 80 - 20 split. In discussing this thread with my Daughter she brought up that recent statistics are showing introverts just slightly over 50%. So you are much more "normal" than you have been led to believe.
> 
> On another topic the article about Jedi's in Australia illustrates one of the reasons people are so pushy about not being single. The whole point of the article was that people marking Jedi as their religion were making it look like there were less atheists. You see they weren't getting enough votes for their team. Now this is why everyone from Atheists, to Zealots will push people to get romantically involved. From Communists to Fascists, everyone wants a bigger team. The trouble with remaining single is that you aren't making new singles to swell the ranks. As the old joke illustrates, " I'm a bachelor and plan on raising my children to be the same."


Politics :/


----------



## Diana7

Wolf1974 said:


> You can keep him and the religion far as I am concerned. My life improved once I left the church once it sided with my WS. Morality from the chuch is selective at best.


In my experience of the Christians I have known its usually pretty consistent.


----------



## Diana7

We are all somewhere on the introvert/extrovert line. I am more introvert in that I get my strength from being away from people and find social situations draining, but I still love being married.


----------



## Magnesium

RandomDude said:


> Yes, sanctuary, for me it's peace, and it's how I recharge. During marriage when I need a break I still remember driving hours away to the country, poor mobile reception, and just enjoying the solitude. I wanted to get away. Fast forward divorce I thought I had a hole that needed to be filled, even prior to breaking up with my recent girlfriend I had set up a potential "number two". Yet, after finding my new freedom again, away from all the intrusions into my life... I realised I do not wish to sacrifice it again. I decided I wanted to be single.
> 
> I've never made such a decision before, with another beautiful woman waiting on the side yet I rejected her for my own solitude. My recent girlfriend was probably what I would consider a "perfect" woman in that there was nothing wrong with her, she was beautiful, kind, affectionate, loyal, trustworthy, strong in her morals, pretty much everything. Yet, the life she wanted to live, well, wasn't the life I wanted to live. A relationship intrudes too much into my life and my new passions I found. I'm not so sure if I want things to work out with any future partner considering I have found the peace in my life that I always wanted. Maybe it's just age as well, my sex drive declining so it no longer really rules me.
> 
> In the future who knows what may happen, maybe I'll meet someone whose lifestyle is similar to mine, in that she likes her romance in short bursts and not a regular lifestyle, where we both can live out independent lives. But not something I dream about, or even find myself wanting, as I already found what I wanted deep down. I feel at peace now, and I like it that way.


Had to filter through the other discussion that is unfortunately derailing your topic.

I have been single and celibate nearly a year now and have never felt better. I have been living alone for the first time in all my years on this earth and I love it. I am not interested in dating and no interest in sex. I feel a peace I never had before and more confident than ever. Best year of my life.


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## jorgegene

Magnesium said:


> Had to filter through the other discussion that is unfortunately derailing your topic.
> 
> I have been single and celibate nearly a year now and have never felt better. I have been living alone for the first time in all my years on this earth and I love it. I am not interested in dating and no interest in sex. I feel a peace I never had before and more confident than ever. Best year of my life.


I like this. This is exactly how I felt for so long.
I am married now and happier than ever, but I led a very long happy single life.


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## foolscotton3

Stang197 said:


> I get that. What about Paul's comments on it being preferable to remain unmarried?


The whole lot of them objected to marriage once they heard Jesus explain where God and Moses departed on divorce.

Once they heard that divorce was a man made law, they asked why a man would ever want to get married.

Imagine right now in the US, if they removed divorce laws, your married for life, no outs. I'm pretty sure we would question the sanity of those who married. Especially given our D rates going from 50%+ to 0.

If you have above 50% divorce rates, you have bigger moral issues than divorces to contend with. For starters the unrealistic expectations that partners should be perfect gods.

Sent from my Z799VL using Tapatalk


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## foolscotton3

MrsHolland said:


> RD our most recent census showed that people that identify as non religious make up 1/3 of our population and are the fastest rising group. That reflects on the expectations of our society, the pressure to be a conformist should be decreasing which is why it surprising that you are feeling any need to justify how you wish to live you life.


The largest growing Christian sects consider themselves non-religious, "religion" is a relative word.

I am only saying this because that most definitely would impact those statistics unless when asked.

I am non-religious.
That is how I would definitely myself statistically, given the options; religious or not.

Yet, I am a Christian.

Sent from my Z799VL using Tapatalk


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## MrsHolland

foolscotton3 said:


> The largest growing Christian sects consider themselves non-religious, "religion" is a relative word.
> 
> I am only saying this because that most definitely would impact those statistics unless when asked.
> 
> I am non-religious.
> That is how I would definitely myself statistically, given the options; religious or not.
> 
> Yet, I am a Christian.
> 
> Sent from my Z799VL using Tapatalk


Our census changed last to to list the option "No religion" at the top of the list. This was done because many put answers like "Jedi Knight" or other things which then get counted as "not defined" which means the percentage of the population counted as no religion v's religious are skewed.
We had a campaign on how important it is to answer more specifically "no religion" as the info from the census is what the Govt use to allocate funding and give exemptions to religious organisations which of course is unfair based on the true % of our population that is not religious.


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## itsontherocks

I sometimes feel like I have the scarlet letter being single where everyone else is married or in a "serious relationship". Just working on me and working on bettering myself. Screw everyone else. In the end, it's what matters to you, not other people.


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## Personal

@MrsHolland as an aside the ADF did their own survey of Defence Members a few years ago and published a report saying that over 50% of service personnel are atheists (at a percentage that is higher than the general population according to the ABS). With the Australian Army having more atheists as a percentage than the Royal Australian Navy and Royal Australian Air Force.


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## Personal

@RandomDude I think it comes down to the friends you have. Amongst my friends of whom the majority are from Sydney, no one cares either way since it just isn't an issue for us.


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## MrsHolland

itsontherocks said:


> I sometimes feel like I have the scarlet letter being single where everyone else is married or in a "serious relationship". Just working on me and working on bettering myself. Screw everyone else. In the end, it's what matters to you, not other people.


When I was in my first marriage I used to look around and think everyone else was in a happy marriage unlike me. I found out later that this was no true at all, many are married but what % are happily married? 
Better to be happily single than unhappily married and anyone that cares about you will want you to be happy.


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## Stang197

I wonder how many people would like to be in a relationship but got raked over the coals in divorce court and that's why they stay single. Or they are paying so much in alimony and child support that no one is interested in them.


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## RandomDude

Personal said:


> @RandomDude I think it comes down to the friends you have. Amongst my friends of whom the majority are from Sydney, no one cares either way since it just isn't an issue for us.


I live in Sydney lol, my outer circle doesn't care, inner circle though - different story - hence I'm spending less time with some, more time with others, slowly purging them, replacing the inner circle with more like-minded folks.


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## Wolf1974

Stang197 said:


> I wonder how many people would like to be in a relationship but got raked over the coals in divorce court and that's why they stay single. Or they are paying so much in alimony and child support that no one is interested in them.


I would certainly be in this category. My terrible past marriage and divorce has made me reconsider ever risking it again. If I ever did marry I wouldn't combine all things anymore for sure.


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## Stang197

Wolf1974 said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder how many people would like to be in a relationship but got raked over the coals in divorce court and that's why they stay single. Or they are paying so much in alimony and child support that no one is interested in them.
> 
> 
> 
> I would certainly be in this category. My terrible past marriage and divorce has made me reconsider ever risking it again. If I ever did marry I wouldn't combine all things anymore for sure.
Click to expand...


Doesn't matter if you combine them or not in divorce. The other party walks with half whether they deserve it or not. Marriage shouldn't be considered a safe bet for anyone. Why do people need marriage anyways? It guarantees nothing except court involvement when you break up.


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## southbound

MrsHolland said:


> itsontherocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> I sometimes feel like I have the scarlet letter being single where everyone else is married or in a "serious relationship". Just working on me and working on bettering myself. Screw everyone else. In the end, it's what matters to you, not other people.
> 
> 
> 
> That's true. Just because someone is married doesn't mean they are happily married.
> 
> When I was in my first marriage I used to look around and think everyone else was in a happy marriage unlike me. I found out later that this was no true at all, many are married but what % are happily married?
> Better to be happily single than unhappily married and anyone that cares about you will want you to be happy.
Click to expand...


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## RandomDude

Caught up with an old friend, and as per usual, I'm once again explaining myself... *sigh*

Already did a soft purge on my social circle to be with more like-minded individuals, but old friends, don't want to burn those bridges. So I was polite... still haven't really found a warm, friendly, cheerful and polite one-liner to end the discussion right then and there however. They relented however, after I told them I actually found a woman who was marriage material, but I decided I simply would not be happy in living that lifestyle again, I even felt relief, not grief, in breaking up with her. It's just not me. I am what I am.


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## Wolf1974

Stang197 said:


> Doesn't matter if you combine them or not in divorce. The other party walks with half whether they deserve it or not. Marriage shouldn't be considered a safe bet for anyone. Why do people need marriage anyways? It guarantees nothing except court involvement when you break up.


I was speaking of protected accounts with prenuptial agreements. Not the combined accounts like checking and saving


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## AVR1962

RandomDude said:


> Caught up with an old friend, and as per usual, I'm once again explaining myself... *sigh*
> 
> Already did a soft purge on my social circle to be with more like-minded individuals, but old friends, don't want to burn those bridges. So I was polite... still haven't really found a warm, friendly, cheerful and polite one-liner to end the discussion right then and there however. They relented however, after I told them I actually found a woman who was marriage material, but I decided I simply would not be happy in living that lifestyle again, I even felt relief, not grief, in breaking up with her. It's just not me. I am what I am.


RandomDude, it is great that you figured out who you are and you have realized that you like being single. Also great that you found someone you really felt feelings for. My question to you is, when you date are you upfront with the women and let them know that you are not interested in a long-term relationship?


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## Diana7

RandomDude said:


> Caught up with an old friend, and as per usual, I'm once again explaining myself... *sigh*
> 
> Already did a soft purge on my social circle to be with more like-minded individuals, but old friends, don't want to burn those bridges. So I was polite... still haven't really found a warm, friendly, cheerful and polite one-liner to end the discussion right then and there however. They relented however, after I told them I actually found a woman who was marriage material, but I decided I simply would not be happy in living that lifestyle again, I even felt relief, not grief, in breaking up with her. It's just not me. I am what I am.


IF you want to be single, why are you dating women and potentially playing with their emotions?


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## RandomDude

AVR1962 said:


> RandomDude, it is great that you figured out who you are and you have realized that you like being single. Also great that you found someone you really felt feelings for.


Actually, I never had feelings for her either than fondness and friendship. What I have for her in abundance is respect and trust, solid foundations of a relationship, but the relationship itself - I am simply unable to be vulnerable. In fact, I've never even been truly vulnerable with ex-wife and looking back sometimes I wonder if I even fully loved her either, considering the many times I felt uncomfortable saying it, the deep feelings questioning my own words as I spoke them, my constant coldness driving her up the wall to the point she became so demanding and ultimately I was the main cause of the divorce. 

I felt feelings sure, but never lost control. Never been vulnerable since childhood. I also know what I have to do to be vulnerable, but that contradicts my own principles and it's not something I'll ever be willing to give up - its to the death. As I mentioned, I am what I am, and I found I'm happier accepting what I am, and not to follow after the lifestyle of the majority. I haven't come to this self-awareness lightly, it has been an accumulation of life's experiments, determining who I am and in the end, loving someone romantically is not something I'm capable of - all because ultimately it's MY choice. I'm tired of wearing a mask. Yes, I still wear one, but I can limit the innocents I hurt.



> My question to you is, when you date are you upfront with the women and let them know that you are not interested in a long-term relationship?





Diana7 said:


> IF you want to be single, why are you dating women and potentially playing with their emotions?


As for the dates, I haven't really been dating since breaking up with my latest victim/ex-GF. I am also not a player, from day one I've always been honest with my intentions with my dates, casual flings, no commitment. Despite this, yes, I have experimented in the past, I thought I could learn what love was through relationships, I was wrong. I was dragged into marriage out of the sense of responsibility thanks to ex-wife getting pregnant. I experimented again with my ex-GF as she hit my impossible standards and thought - ok, she's worth a shot. But in the end, even after meeting someone who ticked every box, I still could not change who or what I am.

I had enough.

I am now aware, and someone like me is happiest alone, and others are happier when I am alone. It's a win/win. Society however, does not seem to be able to accept it. I am quite frankly getting frustrated at explaining myself to every close or old friend. How alien I must be, as alien as they are to me in how they process emotions so freely, falling in love and finding peace in another's arms while I find my peace always in solitude. To recharge I didn't go to my wife back in marriage, I went away and made her worry sick - which annoyed me. In fact, people caring about me too much piss me off. Quite frankly the only one person in this whole world who I seem to be vulnerable with is my daughter, and it is the same principles that harden my heart with others that soften my heart with her. I am what I am.


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## Diana7

RandomDude said:


> Actually, I never had feelings for her either than fondness and friendship. What I have for her in abundance is respect and trust, solid foundations of a relationship, but the relationship itself - I am simply unable to be vulnerable. In fact, I've never even been truly vulnerable with ex-wife and looking back sometimes I wonder if I even fully loved her either, considering the many times I felt uncomfortable saying it, the deep feelings questioning my own words as I spoke them, my constant coldness driving her up the wall to the point she became so demanding and ultimately I was the main cause of the divorce.
> 
> I felt feelings sure, but never lost control. Never been vulnerable since childhood. I also know what I have to do to be vulnerable, but that contradicts my own principles and it's not something I'll ever be willing to give up - its to the death. As I mentioned, I am what I am, and I found I'm happier accepting what I am, and not to follow after the lifestyle of the majority. I haven't come to this self-awareness lightly, it has been an accumulation of life's experiments, determining who I am and in the end, loving someone romantically is not something I'm capable of - all because ultimately it's MY choice. I'm tired of wearing a mask. Yes, I still wear one, but I can limit the innocents I hurt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for the dates, I haven't really been dating since breaking up with my latest victim/ex-GF. I am also not a player, from day one I've always been honest with my intentions with my dates, casual flings, no commitment. Despite this, yes, I have experimented in the past, I thought I could learn what love was through relationships, I was wrong. I was dragged into marriage out of the sense of responsibility thanks to ex-wife getting pregnant. I experimented again with my ex-GF as she hit my impossible standards and thought - ok, she's worth a shot. But in the end, even after meeting someone who ticked every box, I still could not change who or what I am.
> 
> I had enough.
> 
> I am now aware, and someone like me is happiest alone, and others are happier when I am alone. It's a win/win. Society however, does not seem to be able to accept it. I am quite frankly getting frustrated at explaining myself to every close or old friend. How alien I must be, as alien as they are to me in how they process emotions so freely, falling in love and finding peace in another's arms while I find my peace always in solitude. To recharge I didn't go to my wife back in marriage, I went away and made her worry sick - which annoyed me. In fact, people caring about me too much piss me off. Quite frankly the only one person in this whole world who I seem to be vulnerable with is my daughter, and it is the same principles that harden my heart with others that soften my heart with her. I am what I am.


Society does accept it, a massive percentage of people are single, whether by choice or any other reason, and most of us are far too tactful to ask a single person why they are single.


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## RandomDude

Outer circle, sure, now how to deal with the inner circle either than purging?


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## AVR1962

RandomDude said:


> Actually, I never had feelings for her either than fondness and friendship. What I have for her in abundance is respect and trust, solid foundations of a relationship, but the relationship itself - I am simply unable to be vulnerable. In fact, I've never even been truly vulnerable with ex-wife and looking back sometimes I wonder if I even fully loved her either, considering the many times I felt uncomfortable saying it, the deep feelings questioning my own words as I spoke them, my constant coldness driving her up the wall to the point she became so demanding and ultimately I was the main cause of the divorce.
> 
> I felt feelings sure, but never lost control. Never been vulnerable since childhood. I also know what I have to do to be vulnerable, but that contradicts my own principles and it's not something I'll ever be willing to give up - its to the death. As I mentioned, I am what I am, and I found I'm happier accepting what I am, and not to follow after the lifestyle of the majority. I haven't come to this self-awareness lightly, it has been an accumulation of life's experiments, determining who I am and in the end, loving someone romantically is not something I'm capable of - all because ultimately it's MY choice. I'm tired of wearing a mask. Yes, I still wear one, but I can limit the innocents I hurt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for the dates, I haven't really been dating since breaking up with my latest victim/ex-GF. I am also not a player, from day one I've always been honest with my intentions with my dates, casual flings, no commitment. Despite this, yes, I have experimented in the past, I thought I could learn what love was through relationships, I was wrong. I was dragged into marriage out of the sense of responsibility thanks to ex-wife getting pregnant. I experimented again with my ex-GF as she hit my impossible standards and thought - ok, she's worth a shot. But in the end, even after meeting someone who ticked every box, I still could not change who or what I am.
> 
> I had enough.
> 
> I am now aware, and someone like me is happiest alone, and others are happier when I am alone. It's a win/win. Society however, does not seem to be able to accept it. I am quite frankly getting frustrated at explaining myself to every close or old friend. How alien I must be, as alien as they are to me in how they process emotions so freely, falling in love and finding peace in another's arms while I find my peace always in solitude. To recharge I didn't go to my wife back in marriage, I went away and made her worry sick - which annoyed me. In fact, people caring about me too much piss me off. Quite frankly the only one person in this whole world who I seem to be vulnerable with is my daughter, and it is the same principles that harden my heart with others that soften my heart with her. I am what I am.


RandomDude, thank you for your honesty, this has been incredibly helpful to me. The man I dated for 7 months said almost word for word what you said in your reply. He too was upfront to tell me he wasn't sure if he could be in a relationship, was not sure he could ever love again and be married. I knew that upfront so I held back, enjoyed the friendship and getting to know him. Not too long after we started dating he brought up his family and how it they would have a hard time accepting me (inter-racial relationship) so I told him it was not a problem, why didn't we just give it a break and we made no contact for a week. I sent him a text asking how he was, he asked me to his house, I accepted. he then told me that he wanted to give the relationship a try and when he did, he was no longer distant, at least that's how it felt. I was the one still holding back. I had feelings for this man but I didn't want to be hurt again. He asked me to give to him and when I did I fell in love, we had connected on every level. The relationship at this point became intense and at the same time I was being triggered from the past. I had not felt this strongly for a man since my first husband, my high school sweetheart. I went thru a euphoric state, something I didn't know was even possible at my age. He was having some of the same concentration issues. he was very sweet with everything he said to me and the way he treated me. But he didn't want to meet my family and I was a secret to his and I was not comfortable with that, that sent up a red flag about his sincerity. Anything I suggested that we do outside of the home he wasn't interested which also sent up a red flag. I was trying to temper my desire to be with him and was expressing myself thru music and I could see by his responses that we were not on the same page and he started distancing himself....calling later at night, not calling on some nights, texts dropped off, he started telling me that he was just too busy with work. To me is was obvious but I didn't want to face the end. He asked me out to his house, we talked like usual for 2 hours and then he took an hour to explain to me why he was breaking things off with me. Like you mentioned in your reply, he told me he respected me, he told me I was the full package but he knew in himself that he was not relationship material and that I deserved to be with someone that would do these things with me and had to time to devote to me.He told me he knew how he was and had to stay true to himself. He said that he always imagined as a young person he would marry and have children but as time went on it just never happened and he now sees himself being a bachelor the rest of his life. He was fighting tears, gave me this huge hug and kiss when I left, contacted me the next day to see how I was doing. It ripped my heart in two.

I found a book that helped me understand a bit better and from everything you have said in your reply this book describes you well too. I suggest to any man who can identify with what you have said here and any women who has dealt with a man like this. "Men Who Can't Love" by Steven Carter a book concerning a man's fear of commitment.


----------



## Bananapeel

Diana7 said:


> IF you want to be single, why are you dating women and potentially playing with their emotions?


Staying single and dating aren't mutually exclusive. As long as he's honest with the women that he isn't looking for a commitment then they can choose if they want the same thing as he does. It's only playing with their emotions if he's dishonest about it. I have a somewhat feminist point of view on this topic that as equals in dating women are free to make their own decision and it's not a man's responsibility to decide what's best for them. 

RD - don't worry too much about what your friends think. It's your life to live as you see fit. However, if you feel the need to explain yourself and justify your actions then deep down you probably aren't OK with it because the justification is just as much for you as it is for them.


----------



## RandomDude

AVR1962 said:


> RandomDude, thank you for your honesty, this has been incredibly helpful to me. The man I dated for 7 months said almost word for word what you said in your reply. He too was upfront to tell me he wasn't sure if he could be in a relationship, was not sure he could ever love again and be married. I knew that upfront so I held back, enjoyed the friendship and getting to know him. Not too long after we started dating he brought up his family and how it they would have a hard time accepting me (inter-racial relationship) so I told him it was not a problem, why didn't we just give it a break and we made no contact for a week. I sent him a text asking how he was, he asked me to his house, I accepted. he then told me that he wanted to give the relationship a try and when he did, he was no longer distant, at least that's how it felt. I was the one still holding back. I had feelings for this man but I didn't want to be hurt again. He asked me to give to him and when I did I fell in love, we had connected on every level. The relationship at this point became intense and at the same time I was being triggered from the past. I had not felt this strongly for a man since my first husband, my high school sweetheart. I went thru a euphoric state, something I didn't know was even possible at my age. He was having some of the same concentration issues. he was very sweet with everything he said to me and the way he treated me. But he didn't want to meet my family and I was a secret to his and I was not comfortable with that, that sent up a red flag about his sincerity. Anything I suggested that we do outside of the home he wasn't interested which also sent up a red flag. I was trying to temper my desire to be with him and was expressing myself thru music and I could see by his responses that we were not on the same page and he started distancing himself....calling later at night, not calling on some nights, texts dropped off, he started telling me that he was just too busy with work. To me is was obvious but I didn't want to face the end. He asked me out to his house, we talked like usual for 2 hours and then he took an hour to explain to me why he was breaking things off with me. Like you mentioned in your reply, he told me he respected me, he told me I was the full package but he knew in himself that he was not relationship material and that I deserved to be with someone that would do these things with me and had to time to devote to me.He told me he knew how he was and had to stay true to himself. He said that he always imagined as a young person he would marry and have children but as time went on it just never happened and he now sees himself being a bachelor the rest of his life. He was fighting tears, gave me this huge hug and kiss when I left, contacted me the next day to see how I was doing. It ripped my heart in two.
> 
> I found a book that helped me understand a bit better and from everything you have said in your reply this book describes you well too. I suggest to any man who can identify with what you have said here and any women who has dealt with a man like this. "Men Who Can't Love" by Steven Carter a book concerning a man's fear of commitment.


Yes, looks like he didn't do the easy thing, he did the right thing. In fact, it's cases like this that I begin to resent society's expectations and lack of acceptance, it pressures those like us to have goals that others have; goals that do not necessarily bring us the same happiness as it does for others. Not to mention it causes grief for parties involved.

It is a stereotype that all single people must be lonely when for some, there's such a thing as being alone and joyful in solitude.



Bananapeel said:


> Staying single and dating aren't mutually exclusive. As long as he's honest with the women that he isn't looking for a commitment then they can choose if they want the same thing as he does. It's only playing with their emotions if he's dishonest about it. I have a somewhat feminist point of view on this topic that as equals in dating women are free to make their own decision and it's not a man's responsibility to decide what's best for them.
> 
> RD - don't worry too much about what your friends think. It's your life to live as you see fit. However, if you feel the need to explain yourself and justify your actions then deep down you probably aren't OK with it because the justification is just as much for you as it is for them.


Yes I have considered that, when I get frustrated I wonder, am I justifying myself for them, or for me as well. I have come to the conclusion that it's both; close friends who question my life choices, also make me question them too. Inner circle I do value their opinions and feedback. I take it deep. Hence I find myself in question, pressured into following the same pattern as I once did before - the pattern of getting into a lifestyle that I've always found overrated. It is the fairytale, the aspect of experiencing something I have never experienced, what it must be like, and it begins to haunt my thoughts again - the what ifs. What if I fell in love, fully and completely, what is this joy of love? What is this feeling of belonging? Yet the reality of it, even when it's right in my face... it simply does NOT compare with the joy I find in being independent.

The freedom of being who I want to be, to live the life I want to live, to answer to no one. This is the lifestyle that I find myself embracing so naturally, so joyfully, and when close friends tell me it's wrong, repeatedly, despite the fact that I harm no one, irritates me just like it irritates me whenever I find myself repeatedly educating retards who lack common sense. After a while, too much of one thing, gets tiring. I hate the fact that I have to justify myself to others after all I've been through to come to this realisation. They insult me with their pity, they punish me for my honesty, they ridicule who I am behind the mask I have been wearing for so long, despite their "good" intentions. These are close friends, who otherwise, are valued members of my circle.


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## AVR1962

RandomDude said:


> Yes, looks like he didn't do the easy thing, he did the right thing. In fact, it's cases like this that I begin to resent society's expectations and lack of acceptance, it pressures those like us to have goals that others have; goals that do not necessarily bring us the same happiness as it does for others. Not to mention it causes grief for parties involved.
> 
> It is a stereotype that all single people must be lonely when for some, there's such a thing as being alone and joyful in solitude.


If the ladies are FULLY aware upfront, great, but toying with hearts to meet your needs (and I am not saying you are this way) is just not right!

Like the man I was dating, he was upfront initially, we decided to call it a break. After a week though he told me he wanted to try for a relationship. I now wonder if there was any truth to that statement. He was the one who sensed I was not giving fully and he was correct but he assured me that everything he told me was truth and heart felt. He asked me to give to him. Reflecting now, it feels I feel into a trap. I am not sure the man was sincere. If he knew all along that he has not been able to maintain a relationship and doesn't want anything long term he is playing with my mind to tell me otherwise. I think he was attracted to me, that seemed quite obvious, and I think he very much enjoyed having someone to talk to. However, as soon as I started wanting more, like a relationship would entail, I think he felt suffocated and had to put distance between us and so here came every reason why we could not be together. To endure 2 hours of normal conversation over wine and then an additional hour of rejection and break-up is just sick in my mind, it was mental torment. The man was very good looking, professional, charismatic and charming and he saw me coming....I was vulnerable. I ended up head over heels in love with this man and he knew it, he enjoyed it infact, he loved the attention. All I can say now is I am thankful I spoke the truth for myself when I saw the first red flag, as that was the beginning of the end for us. In my gut I was not sure he was sincere eventhough he he claimed he was and now I am the one carrying the hurt and baggage from the damage he reaped while he more than likely has moved onto yet another victim.


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## jorgegene

when i was single for 25 years, i was dealing with a somewhat different dynamic, but I still get exactly what you mean.

once i a great while, someone would question: 'are you gay?' as if that has to do with anything. but these were not friends, only neanderthals 
who think if you're not chasing skirt and f'ing someone, there's something real wrong with you.
although even my own mom would hint once in a while there's something wrong. my dad never did. ever.

my real friends never questioned me or gave me crap. they did think i was a bit odd, i can tell, but they never disrespected me.
never questioned me. a few would try to encourage me to hook up with someone, a couple tried to arrange meetings. but they never pressed hard like
yours seem to.

my biggest discomfort being single was going to parties and events where i was the only person alone. i would dread that. i would stick out like a sore thumb.
the only one among many alone! i would just get through it. 

i just consider it the price of being independent. no matter who you are, or what, their will be a price to pay.
between being in a crummy relationship (and i've been there too) and being single, there's no contest.

now i'm married for almost five years and happy, and i've given up my independence. do i regret it? no, absolutely not.
but those single years were good too. 

don't let anyone try to change you x 1000.


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## jorgegene

for those that would try to pin us in a box: the joke's on them.

one of the hardest things to do in this life is swim against the tide and be yourself.
give your finger to the world in a sense and 'do your own thing' like they said in the 60's.
within the limits of leading some kind of productive life i think personally.

but when you do, and truly follow YOUR own path and nobody else's, you will be happier.
easier said than done. the cultural pressure to follow the formula are pretty intense and getting to really know 
yourself is not that easy. to quote pick floyd 'comfortably numb'.

it's the herd mentality and not knowing who you really are that will bring more unhappiness.

that's why the joke is ultimately on them.


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## RandomDude

AVR1962 said:


> If the ladies are FULLY aware upfront, great, but toying with hearts to meet your needs (and I am not saying you are this way) is just not right!
> 
> Like the man I was dating, he was upfront initially, we decided to call it a break. After a week though he told me he wanted to try for a relationship. I now wonder if there was any truth to that statement. He was the one who sensed I was not giving fully and he was correct but he assured me that everything he told me was truth and heart felt. He asked me to give to him. Reflecting now, it feels I feel into a trap. I am not sure the man was sincere. If he knew all along that he has not been able to maintain a relationship and doesn't want anything long term he is playing with my mind to tell me otherwise. I think he was attracted to me, that seemed quite obvious, and I think he very much enjoyed having someone to talk to. However, as soon as I started wanting more, like a relationship would entail, I think he felt suffocated and had to put distance between us and so here came every reason why we could not be together. To endure 2 hours of normal conversation over wine and then an additional hour of rejection and break-up is just sick in my mind, it was mental torment. The man was very good looking, professional, charismatic and charming and he saw me coming....I was vulnerable. I ended up head over heels in love with this man and he knew it, he enjoyed it infact, he loved the attention. All I can say now is I am thankful I spoke the truth for myself when I saw the first red flag, as that was the beginning of the end for us. In my gut I was not sure he was sincere eventhough he he claimed he was and now I am the one carrying the hurt and baggage from the damage he reaped while he more than likely has moved onto yet another victim.


It's a tricky one, as it reminds me of my latest victim. Your ex was perhaps sincere in wanting to try for a relationship, but perhaps not sincere in how he felt. Perhaps he did not intentionally lie to you, but like I was, perhaps he was still confused on how or what he should feel. I also wanted to try for a relationship, I had the perfect test subject; a woman who I trusted and respected, which is a rare deal for me. Breaking her heart is enough to convince me that I am immune to vulnerability and feelings of romantic love regardless of the quality of the woman, but it took a while to get to my stage, and there has been collateral damage in these experiments to achieve more self-awareness.



jorgegene said:


> when i was single for 25 years, i was dealing with a somewhat different dynamic, but I still get exactly what you mean.
> 
> once i a great while, someone would question: 'are you gay?' as if that has to do with anything. but these were not friends, only neanderthals
> who think if you're not chasing skirt and f'ing someone, there's something real wrong with you.
> although even my own mom would hint once in a while there's something wrong. my dad never did. ever.
> 
> my real friends never questioned me or gave me crap. they did think i was a bit odd, i can tell, but they never disrespected me.
> never questioned me. a few would try to encourage me to hook up with someone, a couple tried to arrange meetings. but they never pressed hard like
> yours seem to.
> 
> my biggest discomfort being single was going to parties and events where i was the only person alone. i would dread that. i would stick out like a sore thumb.
> the only one among many alone! i would just get through it.
> 
> i just consider it the price of being independent. no matter who you are, or what, their will be a price to pay.
> between being in a crummy relationship (and i've been there too) and being single, there's no contest.
> 
> now i'm married for almost five years and happy, and i've given up my independence. do i regret it? no, absolutely not.
> but those single years were good too.
> 
> don't let anyone try to change you x 1000.





jorgegene said:


> for those that would try to pin us in a box: the joke's on them.
> 
> one of the hardest things to do in this life is swim against the tide and be yourself.
> give your finger to the world in a sense and 'do your own thing' like they said in the 60's.
> within the limits of leading some kind of productive life i think personally.
> 
> but when you do, and truly follow YOUR own path and nobody else's, you will be happier.
> easier said than done. the cultural pressure to follow the formula are pretty intense and getting to really know
> yourself is not that easy. to quote pick floyd 'comfortably numb'.
> 
> it's the herd mentality and not knowing who you really are that will bring more unhappiness.
> 
> that's why the joke is ultimately on them.


F*** the herd, the overwhelming majority of people lie and cheat including close friends but I try not judge them despite losing a ton of respect for them, and sometimes I wonder how someone like me even has fking morals not to betray someone in such a devastating fashion. And they think my lifestyle is selfish?! I try to be diplomatic and polite, but damn sometimes I wonder how satisfying it would be to turn the tables on them and hold nothing back even if I lose the friendships. Bah!


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