# Do I have a right to ask about her past relationships?



## Tommy509 (Feb 11, 2011)

I've been in a relationship with a woman for almost a year and it's getting pretty serious. I'm divorced and so is she. She had some emotional affairs late in her marriage (after their two kids were born) of 15 years and eventually a full blown affair that ended it. She swears that these relationships were a response to her husband's complete lack of attention to her and she would never do that to me because I give her everything that she needs. She swears she begged him in tears to change and even told him she would step out on him if he didn't, but that he was indifferent. She's in therapy and has taken many steps to change and insists that she's now a different person and has learned from her mistakes. As a result of all of this, I have some fairly significant trust issues and she is aware of this. 

She has been very open about all of her history with one exception. There was an extended EA with her boss that lasted at least a year (three years ago). I found out about it from another source and though she said she was going to tell me about it eventually, I don't believe she ever would have. It was a weird and disfuntional relationship with strong sexual overtones, but she says there was no sexual contact. She was shocked and angry when I found out about it, and says she hid it because she is so ashamed and embarrassed about it. She admits it was inappropriate, but won't give me details about it and after almost a year in therapy, still refuses to tell her therapist about it. 

I love her and we are very compatible, and I think have a great potential if we can get past this trust thing. I understand the risks involved, but she has offered to bring me to therapy with her to work through her past and my ability to trust her. We all make mistakes in life that we regret and I really want to give her the benefit of the doubt and a chance to prove her love. 

My question then is, how much right do I have to ask her for details about her past relationships? If I go to therapy with her, I'm going to want to ask her about this thing with her boss and she's probably not going to want to talk about, since not even her therapist is aware of it yet. I don't think I can take this relationship much further if I don't resolve this, but don't know where the line is in terms of delving into your partner's past.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Does she still work with this boss that she "had" an affair with? If there's still contact, then she's still involved. 

And for the record, once a cheater, always a cheater. I know you won't listen to that. So let me just say "told you so" right now in advance.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Only marry this woman if it's an open marriage from the git-go.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> And for the record, once a cheater, always a cheater. I know you won't listen to that. So let me just say "told you so" right now in advance.


THIS is not always true. 

That said, I think that YES you have the right to inquire about past relationships. I know not everyone agrees with that, but its my way of thinking that when you are venturing into a real, committed relationship that its important to be open about everything. I would be worried if she still works with that boss, if I were you, and think its important that she be honest. I have a feeling she is really humiliated about that relationship.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

You need to determine the risk/reward of this relationship. It's great that you have such a great compatibility with this woman. However, is the relationship worth the risk of being cheated on down the road? That's the thing you need to ask yourself. 

This is going to sound harsh, but I see it as a means to minimize the risk of being cheated in a relationship: "Everyone may deserve a second chance, but do you have to be the one to give it?"


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

3Xnocharm said:


> THIS is not always true.


Keep telling yourself that. Some things you just can't undo.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Keep telling yourself that. Some things you just can't undo.


I will keep telling myself that, because I am one of those people. :smthumbup:


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Tommy509 said:


> We all make mistakes in life that we regret and I really want to give her the benefit of the doubt and a chance to prove her love.


Why do you need her to "prove" her love? Has she done something to you that you question her love for you? Have you proved your love to her? How?



> If I go to therapy with her, I'm going to want to ask her about this thing with her boss and she's probably not going to want to talk about, since not even her therapist is aware of it yet.


You should tell her this _now_. And tell her what it is that you want to understand, and why this is so important to you. Let her think about discussing it with her therapist before she brings you in.



> I don't think I can take this relationship much further if I don't resolve this, but don't know where the line is in terms of delving into your partner's past.


You seem pretty clear on this - either she tells you about that relationship or you won't feel comfortable taking relationship further. So it doesn't matter where other people think the line is, since this sounds like it's a deal breaker for you.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

I never requested that info from my STBXW prior to our marriage, although she did occasionally bleed "bits and pieces" about them to me. However, I fully disclosed about mine to her.

Funny thing was that the "bits and pieces" that she verbalized about to me did not include either of the OM who ultimately assisted in laying waste to our marriage!


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## Tommy509 (Feb 11, 2011)

She no longer works for that boss. He was canned. And she is humiliated by the relationship.

I'm aware of the "once a cheater, always a cheater" concept, but to be honest, I ended up in an affair after a long unhappy marriage, so it's tempered my judgement. It was a symptom of my problems with the marriage, not the cause, and the marriage was near its end regardless when it happened. No excuse, I know, but I learned much from the experience and I'll never let it happen again. I think she feels the same way about hers, but there's more of a pattern of behavior there and so, yeah, I guess it's a deal breaker for me. 

I'm a believer now in "radical honesty". Nothing should be off limits in a marriage in terms of openness and honesty. I just don't know where to draw the line in a dating relationship.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## brightlight (Feb 18, 2013)

It seems that you know the answer.

You have every right to ask about a partner's previous relationships. You just need to be prepared for the answers.

1. She tells you all. You may or may not be happy with what you hear.

2. She refuses to tell you anything. You won't be satisfied and will resent her.

3. You let it go. Will this path have future consequences?

There are cases for all three. Sometimes number three is the way to go. Nothing may come of this. You may live happily ever after.

However, you _really_ want to know, don't you? So you have to tell her it's a deal breaker. You don't need to make it an immediate ultimatum ie. "I'm gonna walk out that door if you don't..." Just let her know that at some point sooner or later she is going to have to come clean.

She will try and wriggle out of it, but don't let her.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Tommy509 said:


> She swears that these relationships were a response to her husband's complete lack of attention to her and she would never do that to me because I give her everything that she needs.
> 
> *I'd be worried about this. You know as well as I do that marriage (or committed relationships) has its ups and downs and there will be times when you can't possibly give her everything she (thinks she) needs nor should you be required to. *
> 
> ...


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## nunikit (Mar 20, 2013)

My two cents:

My ex had what is considered an EA with his last marriage. When we talked about it he didn't think it was cheating because he didn't have sex with her until the divorce was filed.

If I knew then.... What I know now! 

I believe he also has cheated on me. And knowing how he manages to justify his actions to himself. He will never fess up, and I just can't live a life like that. It's like having a big, black rain cloud following you everywhere you go. 

I also believe in total transparency now, I didn't know what that meant when I met him btw. That was another lesson for me. 

I've never cheated no matter how bad things were. My personal integrity and honor are way to important to me. 

It's non-negotiable....


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Be very careful with this one. As a mature adult she chose to have an affair. She doesn't accept responsibility for it but puts the blame on her husband. You had to find out about a prolonged "EA" with her boss. An inappropriate relationship with one's boss is a choice and it's a stupid choice and most often a choice to risk one's employment and subject one's company to a lawsuit. Not the actions of a responsible, accountable, team player. Finally, she deliberately chose to keep that little piece of info hidden from you.
All things combined portray a person with situational ethics (my behavior is ruled by how I feel on a particular day and I'm capable of excusing and accepting any bad behavior in myself). As with any other relationship, marriage, work, or business, invest in strong character and strong values. I don't know this woman but I'm suspicious of her's.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

You've been with this woman LESS THAN one year.


She has admitted to "SOME" EAs during the last few years of her previous marriage. Not just one, but multiple.
She has admitted to a PA during the last few years of her previous marriage. And she is shifting ALL BLAME for it onto her ex-h.
She DID NOT tell you about a YEAR-LONG EA (she claims) with her boss. But she says she WOULD have told you, at some point. You learned about it from SOMEONE ELSE. 
She has not even acknowledged this EA to her therapist. She is trickle-truthing to her therapist?!?



> She's in therapy and has taken many steps to change and insists that she's now a different person and has learned from her mistakes.


*I would point out that she hasn't learned yet and she hasn't taken the TWO MOST IMPORTANT steps: tell the TRUTH, and quit HIDING THINGS.*

She doesn't trust YOU and she doesn't trust her therapist.

My opinion? She has had MORE THAN her '3 strikes'!


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## Tommy509 (Feb 11, 2011)

You all make excellent points. Thank you!

In her defense, her boss used his position of power to manipulate her and exploit her career aspirations to his advantage. I knew him and he had sociopathic tendencies. Positioned himself as her mentor and showered her with attention when she craved it most, then took advantage.

That said, she's fully accountable for her actions (as am I for mine) and it's no excuse. The point was made that I may not want to hear the truth because I might not like what I hear. I've thought about that and it is a concern, but my imagination is active and I may never be comfortable without the truth. My opinion is that the reason she so desperately wants to keep it a secret is the very same reason that it's so important to talk about it. It will continue to poison her and us until she does.

In case it's not obvious at this point, the affair that I had and her full blown affair are the same. Our marriages were failing and we found each other. I was on track to leave mine anyway, but she was less so. I've never had an EA or anything inappropriate. She had an EA prior to her boss and a few other moderately inappropriate relationships after until we met. I apologize for not stating that up front, but I wasn't sure it was relevant and didn't want the affair judgement to eclipse my question. It still stands. We've left our spouses now and have to decide if we can ever trust each other. I know I will never cheat again. I should have left my marriage first, but the financial timing was wrong for me and while I was trying to get my ducks in a row, I ran into her. We had instant chemistry and still do. She says she's a different person now and would never do that to me. Both of our hypocrisy aside, I want to believe her, but still feel some resistance to my desire of total transparency and it gives me pause. Regardless, I know I have to be honest with her about how I feel.

And for what it's worth, integrity and honor were important to me too. 25 years of trying to find lasting happiness in that marriage just wore me down. I'm ashamed of my actions and regret that things happened this way. 

Thanks again for your heartfelt responses.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

You may not want to hear it but you need to hear it so you can make some sort of halfway informed rational choice whether to escalate this relationship. 

An affair, emotional or otherwise, requires two people making choices. The world is full of manipulative, sociopaths. Are you willing to excuse any conduct she might engage in in the future on the basis that it was someone else's fault? She isn't 12. She is a mature adult and has every ounce of character she's ever going to have. The best predictor of future performance is past performance. Considering that this is the most important decision you'll ever make, are the potential rewards worth the potential risks? You might want to create some distance and knock off any sexual contact with this woman for a while so you can more easily assess this situation without contaminating vaginal influence. Vaginal contact makes otherwise rational guys make some incredibly goofy choices.


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> And for the record, once a cheater, always a cheater. I know you won't listen to that. So let me just say "told you so" right now in advance.



Sorry for dragging the thread backwards but I feel that this quote cannot be left un-clarified.

We all know that people CAN change.

Criminals CAN go straight.

Alcoholics CAN quit the drink.

Drug addicts CAN get / stay clean.

Cheaters CAN learn to be loyal.

Before they can do this they must first admit that they have a problem before they can get the help and support that they need to change their ways.

From what the OP has said I do not think this lady is yet in that position.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Tommy509 said:


> You all make excellent points. Thank you!
> 
> In her defense, her boss used his position of power to manipulate her and exploit her career aspirations to his advantage. I knew him and he had sociopathic tendencies. Positioned himself as her mentor and showered her with attention when she craved it most, then took advantage.
> 
> ...


Most likely, this relationship will fail. You two were the ultimate causes of each others marriages from breaking up. Did the two of you ever confess your affairs to your ex spouses, or are they wondering wtf went wrong in their marriages, and have no idea of the betrayal they were put through.

But your path is more clear now than ever. You need a clean, fresh start. Staying with your affair partner is the height of stupidity. Regardless of how much therapy she goes through, she is a serial cheater, and the first natural tendency of a serial cheater will be to bottle up his/her emotions and find the first willing person to sleep with them the moment their current marriage starts to "go bad".

Even in your case, you now have the tendency to pursue a third person to "provide comfort" since you cheated. I think this relationship is toxic, and it will be constant reminders to each of you that you two betrayed two other people in your lives in a heinous way.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

Judging from what you say about her she sounds like the type who thinks cheating is a solution and a way out. 
Everytime she had problems in her relationships she cheated.
What makes you think she won't do the same once you two have problems? What happens when you're not there to give her full attention? Will she choose to cheat again? Sounds like yes. 
Eventhough you might have learned from your mistakes, she doesn't sound to have done the same.
Cheating is her way of escaping from problems in marriage/relationship. Would you be able to put up with that in the future?


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

Tommy509 said:


> I've been in a relationship with a woman for almost a year and it's getting pretty serious. I'm divorced and so is she. She had some emotional affairs late in her marriage (after their two kids were born) of 15 years and eventually a full blown affair that ended it. She swears that these relationships were a response to her husband's complete lack of attention to her and she would never do that to me because I give her everything that she needs. She swears she begged him in tears to change and even told him she would step out on him if he didn't, but that he was indifferent. She's in therapy and has taken many steps to change and insists that she's now a different person and has learned from her mistakes. As a result of all of this, I have some fairly significant trust issues and she is aware of this.
> 
> She has been very open about all of her history with one exception. There was an extended EA with her boss that lasted at least a year (three years ago). I found out about it from another source and though she said she was going to tell me about it eventually, I don't believe she ever would have. It was a weird and disfuntional relationship with strong sexual overtones, but she says there was no sexual contact. She was shocked and angry when I found out about it, and says she hid it because she is so ashamed and embarrassed about it. She admits it was inappropriate, but won't give me details about it and after almost a year in therapy, still refuses to tell her therapist about it.
> 
> ...



When you go used car shopping you want to know what your getting yourself into but if homeless people used it for a communal urinal and it was cleaned properly maybe its best not to know about it. Drive it carefully out of the lot. 

In all seriousness though this is why sometimes its best not to ask about the past unless it directly pertains to your future with her. Knowing this about her know has seeded doubt in your mind that will take root unless you deal with it now. Unfortunately though as stated by a previous poster, once a person has a pattern of cheating you have a higher than normal risk of being the next one cheated on. Life is too short to be wasting it on being insecure about your partner.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Tommy509 said:


> She has been very open about all of her history with one exception. There was an extended EA with her boss that lasted at least a year (three years ago). I found out about it from another source and though she said she was going to tell me about it eventually, I don't believe she ever would have. It was a weird and disfuntional relationship with strong sexual overtones, but she says there was no sexual contact. She was shocked and angry when I found out about it, and says she hid it because she is so ashamed and embarrassed about it. She admits it was inappropriate, but won't give me details about it and after almost a year in therapy, still refuses to tell her therapist about it.





Tommy509 said:


> In her defense, her boss used his position of power to manipulate her and exploit her career aspirations to his advantage. I knew him and he had sociopathic tendencies. Positioned himself as her mentor and showered her with attention when she craved it most, then took advantage.


It sounds like you already know a lot about that EA. 

What else is it exactly that you want to know? What details do you need?


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

It's one thing to jump out of a 25-year marriage because you're unhappy! It's entirely ANOTHER to jump into THIS relationship because you're feeling guilty, or to 'prove' something about the affair/leaving your first marriage, etc.

Any children involved in EITHER first marriage will RESENT the new partner. It's natural, it's normal!

If you pursue this (and I think THESE kinds of qualms A YEAR INTO A RELATIONSHIP with a SERIAL cheater are telling...and you *know* it!), make sure you're doing it for the RIGHT reasons, and NOT out of some misguided notion!


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I was under the impression that relationships that start as affairs have a very low success rate.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

In choosing a life partner you can ask anything you want. Persoanlly I feel that discussing relationship history is an important pre-requisite to getting married for sure. 



Tommy509 said:


> I've been in a relationship with a woman for almost a year and it's getting pretty serious. I'm divorced and so is she.
> 
> She had some emotional affairs late in her marriage (after their two kids were born) of 15 years and eventually a full blown affair that ended it. She swears that these relationships were a response to her husband's complete lack of attention to her and she would never do that to me because I give her everything that she needs. She swears she begged him in tears to change and even told him she would step out on him if he didn't, but that he was indifferent.
> 
> ...


Update : Ok so I see this relationship started as an affair. Sigh. So I get the compatibility comment to a point. I agree with others. Do not marry her out of guilt. Your affair was very bad indeed. You may benefit from walking away and working on yourself for a while.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Relationships that start with affairs; you each know exactly what the other is capable of doing to spouses. In my opinion that spells disaster and makes it impossible to trust each other.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Like I said, just make sure everyone is on board that this is an open marriage and all should be well. After all, both parties are coming out of semi-open marriages where they were each the "open" party. It's a match made in uh....


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

I've got ONE LAST THING to say and then I will leave you on your own, Tommy. You seem like a sensible enough man who was in an unhappy marriage and cheated when he should have gotten out. Okay, you made a mistake, you've owned it....so be it.

As a sensible man, I think that YOU CAN ALREADY SEE the writing on the wall, but don't want to acknowledge it for some reason! *Are you afraid that not being with your current gf will somehow 'nullify' the reasons you left your 25-year marriage? Because it won't.* If your reasons were justified, then being with this gf or not, will not change things. The WAY you left was crappy, but perhaps the REASONS you left were not.

*Does it not strike you as ODD that your gf is ALWAYS the victim of some evil man?!? *I'm a woman, and I NOTICED that she is always some poor BLAMELESS innocent woman being FORCED to do distasteful things because some MEAN OLD PUSHY AGGRESSIVE MAN "FORCED" her to do it! What a load of CRAP!!!


> OP:
> She had some emotional affairs late in her marriage...and eventually a full blown affair that ended it. She swears that *these relationships were a response to her husband's complete lack of attention to her*


 Wow, what a [email protected]! So HER solution is to screw someone else! And have EAs! Yep, she sure SHOWED him!


> OP:
> and she would never do that to me because I give her everything that she needs.


Uh, this just means that *THIS* is the 'excuse' she will use on YOU when she steps out on you in the future...since we ALL KNOW that NOBODY can give someone else EVERYTHING they need!


> OP:
> She swears she begged him in tears to change and even told him she would step out on him if he didn't, but that *he was indifferent*.


 Wow! Not even, "Step up, or this marriage is over!" Just, "...step up, or I'm going to start fvcking somebody else!" ...does this woman work outside her home? is she a golddigger, because this certainly SOUNDS like golddigger behavior. No attempt to live a more honest, mature life ON HER OWN, just stepping out on her H while remaining married to him so she can take advantage of the material and social comforts being married to him affords her!


> OP:
> There was an extended EA with her boss that lasted at least a year...It was a weird and disfuntional relationship with strong sexual overtones, but she says there was no sexual contact


 and you have REASON to BELIEVE her, because she's been so HONEST and FORTHCOMING, right!?! Uh-huh!


> OP:
> ...her boss used his position of power to manipulate her and exploit her career aspirations to his advantage


 Yet ANOTHER [email protected] 'taking advantage' of her! FORCING her to do things she doesn't want to do (like stepping out on her H !)

My educated guess (as a woman of 56yrs of life experience) is, that you will find she has CHEATED (EA/PA) in every single opposite gender relationship she has EVER been in! She runs from conflict and resolution by screwing someone else in an effort to make the 'unpleasant reality' of her current life GO AWAY!

Someday YOUR relationship with her will be the 'unpleasant reality' in her life (since no relationship is 100% blissful) she will be trying to make GO AWAY by screwing someone else. She jumps from man to man looking for someone to RESCUE HER from her latest distress (instead of facing it like an adult WOMAN). 

Now you know; how you CHOOSE to deal with it, is up to you! 

If you CHOOSE to stay with her, you should be tested REGULARLY for STDs; I am not being snarky, I'm being HONEST. You owe it to yourself and your children!


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## Tommy509 (Feb 11, 2011)

norajane said:


> It sounds like you already know a lot about that EA.
> 
> What else is it exactly that you want to know? What details do you need?



Good points all. Thank you again.

As for this question, I think it's just the precedent of transparency that I'm trying to set. Everything in the open. Everything! My or our decision of what to do from there can be made once there has been full disclosure, but I know and I've told her in no uncertain terms that full, complete, and permanent transparency is required for this relationship to ever have a chance.

I'm not leaving my wife for her, and I've told her this. I'm leaving my marriage because it's never worked for me. I've tried for many years to make it work. I almost left 15 years ago, but stayed for the kids. Our oldest moved out two years ago and I've been miserable since. It's just not working for me. There's some drinking and control issues on her side that have influenced things as well, but basically I married for the wrong reasons. I was acting as a father to her one year old while dating and fell in love with her, adopted her in marriage and couldn't be prouder of how she's turned out, but was too young and it was the wrong reason to get married. As a result, I've always regretted it. I've had many opportunities to cheat over the years prior to her, and never did out of respect for my wife and the marriage. I feel terrible that it came to this and still carry an enormous amount of guilt. 

That said, I don't think I'm staying in this relationship out of guilt. I genuinely love being with her and feel a bond and chemistry that I've never had before. We laugh a lot and have a great banter, neither of which were ever the case with my wife. She seems to be really trying to change and has been very open in a proactive way to make me more comfortable about her past and the future. I hate to throw away what we have, but if she can't handle complete honesty and disclosure indefinitely, then I will never be comfortable with her. 

This EA seems to be the last big hurdle from her past and her refusal to deal with it is starting to keep me up at night. I agree that it seems unrealistic to think she could be involved in a relationship like that for so long without some physical sexual contact, but I also find it hard to believe that after all this time, she would continue to lie to me about that. That's why I'm here and opening up to all you good people. I can't say how much it means to me that you take the time to help me with this and share your honest opinions. All of them. It's all helpful and I appreciate it so much.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Tommy509 said:


> Good points all. Thank you again.
> 
> As for this question, I think it's just the precedent of transparency that I'm trying to set. Everything in the open. Everything! My or our decision of what to do from there can be made once there has been full disclosure, but I know and I've told her in no uncertain terms that full, complete, and permanent transparency is required for this relationship to ever have a chance.


But what does transparency and full disclosure mean, exactly, when you already know all that stuff about the EA? What more do you need to know to consider it transparency and full disclosure? Put another way, what do you think she isn't telling you that has you so concerned? There must be something you feel you don't know, but I can't figure out what it is since you know who, why, where, what.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

You say 'leaving' your wife like it's present tense. Like as in right now. Are you married still? Is this an ongoing affair? Does your wife know?


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## Tommy509 (Feb 11, 2011)

norajane said:


> But what does transparency and full disclosure mean, exactly, when you already know all that stuff about the EA? What more do you need to know to consider it transparency and full disclosure? Put another way, what do you think she isn't telling you that has you so concerned?



To me, transparency and full disclosure mean that we should be able to ask each other about anything, and expect an answer without anger, hesitation, or resentment. That includes any relationship either of us have had, that includes email and phone passwords if either of us want to look at the other's email or text's, that includes her telling her therapist about possibly the most significant extra marital relationship she's had (besides me, which her therapist well knows about) in an effort to deal with the source of her inclination towards these men, which she claims she's doing. Bottom line, I think she's lying to herself about what happened with this guy, and until she deals with it directly, she'll never get to the core of the problem.

I could be wrong, but that's my opinion. It's not so much the details that I'm looking for. It's the desire and proof that she's truly willing to deal with the source of the problem and conquer it. Otherwise, there's no hope for me or any other relationship in her future.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Tommy509 said:


> She no longer works for that boss. He was canned. And she is humiliated by the relationship.
> 
> I'm aware of the "once a cheater, always a cheater" concept, but to be honest, I ended up in an affair after a long unhappy marriage, so it's tempered my judgement. It was a symptom of my problems with the marriage, not the cause, and the marriage was near its end regardless when it happened. No excuse, I know, but I learned much from the experience and I'll never let it happen again. I think she feels the same way about hers, but there's more of a pattern of behavior there and so, yeah, I guess it's a deal breaker for me.
> 
> ...


Kudos to you my friend, I am as well. So is my wife. That's what makes it work. The problem arises when one person is and one isn't. It doesn't sound like this woman is.

Also in regards to getting involved with a cheater. Cheaters can learn and change, like anyone. But it truly depends on the individual. Serial cheaters won't change. It's how they view relationships. For a cheater to change, first you'd need to see accountability and second remorse. She would say things like "Yes I cheated, and I truly regret doing that. It may not have been the best marriage, but I made that mistake." She's still to this day blaming her exhusband......

She also shows you that she justifies doing those things if the relationship isn't what she is expecting, and not learning from that either. You can bet that if she felt you weren't being "affectionate" for a long enough period of time, she'd do it to you.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Tommy509 said:


> To me, transparency and full disclosure mean that we should be able to ask each other about anything, and expect an answer without anger, hesitation, or resentment. That includes any relationship either of us have had, that includes email and phone passwords if either of us want to look at the other's email or text's, that includes her telling her therapist about possibly the most significant extra marital relationship she's had (besides me, which her therapist well knows about) in an effort to deal with the source of her inclination towards these men, which she claims she's doing. Bottom line, I think she's lying to herself about what happened with this guy, and until she deals with it directly, she'll never get to the core of the problem.
> 
> I could be wrong, but that's my opinion. It's not so much the details that I'm looking for. It's the desire and proof that she's truly willing to deal with the source of the problem and conquer it. Otherwise, there's no hope for me or any other relationship in her future.


Rule number 1 of being happy in a relationship. Love the person for who they are, don't try and "fix" or "save" them from themselves. It never ends well for you.

She's broken, you see this. You need to accept she is and let her go. Or choose to remain with a broken woman and accept the consequences when they happen. But don't remain with her while trying to make her "unbroken". You can't do that, only she can.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Tommy509 said:


> To me, transparency and full disclosure mean that we should be able to ask each other about anything, and expect an answer without anger, hesitation, or resentment. That includes any relationship either of us have had, that includes email and phone passwords if either of us want to look at the other's email or text's, that includes her telling her therapist about possibly the most significant extra marital relationship she's had (besides me, which her therapist well knows about) in an effort to deal with the source of her inclination towards these men, which she claims she's doing. Bottom line, I think she's lying to herself about what happened with this guy, and until she deals with it directly, she'll never get to the core of the problem.
> 
> I could be wrong, but that's my opinion. It's not so much the details that I'm looking for. It's the desire and proof that she's truly willing to deal with the source of the problem and conquer it. Otherwise, there's no hope for me or any other relationship in her future.


Maybe she doesn't feel safe enough yet with you to discuss it the way you want her to. Perhaps she feels you will judge her or dump her. 

Perhaps she feels pressured or manipulated by you to discuss this, in the same way she felt manipulated by her boss.

Perhaps she feels that you wouldn't understand her perspective because you've never gone through anything like that, and would get angry or be full of blame for her actions.

Perhaps she feels you have a double standard about your cheating on your wife and her cheating - you've accepted and forgiven your actions but are hesitant about her actions.

Perhaps she is still hurting from the experience and it's difficult for her talk about it because she relives the humiliation and embarrassment when she talks about it. 

Perhaps she needs more time to work through her issues with her therapist before she broaches this one. 

Not everyone goes through the same journey in life, and people don't heal and rebuild themselves on anyone else's timetable or on demand. You're trying to protect yourself against her cheating on you in the future because of her past, but you claim to know that you would never cheat on her, ever, despite having entered into an affair with her yourself which you would never have planned in the first place. Both of you are vulnerable. 

I don't think this issue is ALL about her. You don't trust her, and if it weren't that she's not ready to delve into her EA with you, I think you'd likely find something else to mistrust. I doubt you'd have an easy time trusting anyone right now, because of the way your wife treated you.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

Don't marry her. She is a serial cheater and will cheat on you. Why put yourself through another divorce. There are women out there that will not cheat on you no matter what circumstances there are.

My most very biggest mistake of marrying my ex husband knowing he has cheated on past relationships. Needless to say, he cheated on ours too. I never once cheated on my ex even though I knew he was cheating on me. 

There is absolutely no justification for cheating in the first place. Cheaters lie and lie and lie and lie! I can assure you this women is lying to you. If she is in fact truthful now, she won't be in the future. 

Stay away from this one.


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## JSX (Mar 24, 2013)

Some people just think too much, I met my wife a few years ago, and after less than 3 months I married her.

Did I wanted to know all about her previous relationships? Yes I did! Was it important? Not at all!

Times just goes by, and I am not planning to waste any minute of it, who cares what was then, we were monkeys a million years ago as well, what matters is now and next!.

Note: cheating is hardcoded in all of us, in every single one (if we like it or not), it is natural selection’s fault and a million years of evolution, the people who reproduced less did not survive, the people who chatted and reproduced more survived, and their DNA is in us. To contain this issue we know each other’s locations all the time, and we don’t go out with the opposite sex alone, as simple as that.

And we also developed trust, which is the most important.

The answer to your question is: ignore the past, just plan and prepare how you will handle the future.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Tommy509 said:


> *To me, transparency and full disclosure mean that we should be able to ask each other about anything, and expect an answer without anger, hesitation, or resentment.*
> 
> That includes any relationship either of us have had, that includes email and phone passwords if either of us want to look at the other's email or text's, that includes her telling her therapist about possibly the most significant extra marital relationship she's had (besides me, which her therapist well knows about) in an effort to deal with the source of her inclination towards these men, which she claims she's doing. Bottom line, I think she's lying to herself about what happened with this guy, and until she deals with it directly, she'll never get to the core of the problem.
> 
> I could be wrong, but that's my opinion. It's not so much the details that I'm looking for. *It's the desire and proof that she's truly willing to deal with the source of the problem and conquer it. * Otherwise, there's no hope for me or any other relationship in her future.


I would feel the same as you...you need to understand *the Why's* behind the behavior and how she has been *changed *because of it - hopefully she has seen/ understood the ramifications to hurting others in those actions (plus the integrity to herself)... and would vow heartfully to never walk that road again, you want to see RESOLVE..(something settled deep within her that she can articulate...and to you ....in regards to your future together). Most anything can be forgiven IF it is understood.. and change has taken place. 

I believe in a Willing / Giving Transparency, not something forced like a RULE book... it is something built into their character -because it honors our spouse, it is respectful.. .also not to mention secrets have "power" .... 

If someone believes in full transparency... they need to marry a like minded individual.....or this issue has the potential to hold a cloud of suspicion over your head, like you are grasping for something you can not reach.

My thread on Transparency here *>>*


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## Tommy509 (Feb 11, 2011)

The Transparency Thread is a good one. I couldn't agree more. I haven't always practiced it in the past and can attest to the stress and unhappiness that lies and omission of the truth can cause, so I pledge to practice it religiously in the future with whoever I'm with.

Thank you.


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