# The changing reasons why women cheat on their husbands



## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

The changing reasons why women cheat on their husbands - CNN

Maybe the environment (reasons) have changed, but the rest of it is the same ole rationalizing, compartmentalizing, justifying and entitlement that has been discussed here for years. (No matter the sex)


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

With women working and having their own careers it is now easier. 

The fear of pregnancy is gone.

Women have more opportunity to interface with men. Television, print media [online too] and Hollywood push the notion of romance, intrigue and excitement when having extra-marital affairs.

Tension and insecurity in today's world inclines one to take chances as a means to escape reality.

And men being men, still do not honor the fact that a women is married, therefore leave her alone.


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## Rick Blaine (Mar 27, 2017)

Well, this article paints an entitled and narrsasistic picture of the modern wife. Maybe I will just stay single. A man can never know if his girlfriend has or will develop this mindset once married. According to the author it's something the woman would deliberately hide without shame. Too bad there is not a character test that can be taken before marriage to protect men from these frauds. 

Before our lady readers get defensive or feel singled out (I realize that for every cheating wife there is a cheating husband) the article was about attitudes about infidelity held by wives, not infidelity in general. My comments address the article.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Women cheat for exactly the same reason as men. It is new,exciting and they think they can get away with it. 
Women or men can try and justify it a thousand different ways but at the end of the day its all the same. They are cheats and will never have the same level of trust from their partners.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

I've always liked Perel's take on infidelity and think she has a pretty good pulse on the psychology of it. I know some women hide their true self because they were trying to land the right guy to marry, or pretend to be the perfect wife for the benefits that come with it. It's a basic dishonesty that comes with the entitlement syndrome/situational dishonesty that many people have. It's good to recognize it rather than be surprised when it happens.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Life is doomed to be boring and repetitive if you allow it.

Affairs are the exciting new thing that takes you away from the boring monotony of it all.

While I'd never condone it, I can see why women say they are bored. We live in a cookie cutter world and you're just one more cookie with bites taken out of you over time.

Education
Marriage
Children
Caring for aging parents
Dealing with in-laws
Work
Home life & chores

And in-between, you try to make time for relaxation, bonding with your spouse/SO, and figuring out what benefit you as a tiny, insignificant spec, bring to the world.

The thing is, I know my life could be considered boring and monotonous, but I try to keep it fresh and interesting and wouldn't have it any other way. I'm the source of my ultimate happiness.

I really don't understand how an affair can help a marriage, unless the article was referring to helping to keep your husband disillusioned to reality.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

“Because They Want To”, 2017 Edition


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## Volunteer86 (Aug 2, 2017)

I read this article this morning and I found it interesting. I think there is a shift in culture and the way some women look at divorce.Not saying it is the right thing to do but it does bring up some interesting points.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

Perhaps the correct answer here is that men should go into marriage planning to cheat too. Or, stop getting married!


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Rick Blaine said:


> Well, this article paints an entitled and narrsasistic picture of the modern wife.


Nothing new under the sun, since such behaviour is as old as monogamy and far from uncommon. Which is hardly a surprise since humans as a species aren't monogamous.

That said when it comes to modern wives, let us also not forget Lady Seymour Worsley and her 28 extramarital conquests. Amongst many other cases of marital infidelity that litter historical court records from before and after her.

Then there is the following from a May 22, 1971 edition of an Australian women's magazine called New Idea that is worth reading.



> A WISE WIFE"S GUIDE
> 
> *AN OVERDOSE OF TOGETHERNESS CAN TAKE THE MAGIC OUT OF YOUR MARRIAGE - BETTY WYSON TELLS HOW TO KEEP YOURSELF EXCITINGLY DESIRABLE FOR YOUR MAN!*
> 
> ...


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

It is a tragedy they don't have to report it just like pedophiles do. Imagine how many people would do all they could to steer clear of these people if they knew the truth. Imagine just how many decent people could avoid them before they get attached. 

The sad truth is in time things will shift and it wont be in a direction we want. Cheating is just a every day norm these days. The only way it will ever slow down or stop is when people hold these people accountable. If anything in this case I think the rise in Doormat syndrome should be looked at as well. 

C


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*I cannot help but feel that cheating, in and of itself, is strictly a secondary factor in ending marriages!

This usually always occurs right after the primary ones of say, disappointments in family life, money, power, prestige, personality, changing physical attraction, et. al., finally comes in to play! *


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Clay2013 said:


> It is a tragedy they don't have to report it just like pedophiles do. Imagine how many people would do all they could to steer clear of these people if they knew the truth. Imagine just how many decent people could avoid them before they get attached.
> 
> The sad truth is in time things will shift and it wont be in a direction we want. Cheating is just a every day norm these days. The only way it will ever slow down or stop is when people hold these people accountable. If anything in this case I think the rise in Doormat syndrome should be looked at as well.
> 
> C


This is the truth. Read the threads from the people who are destroyed, the years of pain and suffering. The more educated we are to this fact as a society then maybe things will change. As most of the consequences are put on the one who is abused nothing will change. I see it like how it used to be for women who were abused by their spouses until only recently. Those things were hidden and it was never talked about, women were too ashamed to say their husbands beat them, and no one did anything. Now there are shelters and a stigma on the abuser. Men who beat their wives are seen as the monsters they are. Hopefully one day Adulterers will be seen as the same.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

A good dose of resilience and not encouraging people to think they are victims of abuse, by treating people like delicate flowers. Would largely see an end to years of pain and anguish and nonsensical claims that sexual infidelity is as heinous a crime as raping children.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Personal said:


> A good dose of resilience and not encouraging people to think they are victims of abuse, by treating people like delicate flowers. Would largely see an end to years of pain and anguish and nonsensical claims that sexual infidelity is as heinous a crime as raping children.


These things are not mutually exclusive. Infidelity IS abuse, but the victim still needs to be resilient. The question is not whether or not you've been abused, but how you handle it. 

And the last statement is pure hyperbole. Nobody has ever made such a claim.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> These things are not mutually exclusive. Infidelity IS abuse, but the victim still needs to be resilient. The question is not whether or not you've been abused, but how you handle it.
> 
> And the last statement is pure hyperbole. Nobody has ever made such a claim.


Poppycock! Infidelity is not abuse and Clay2013 drew the paedophilia bow. And others have made such claims as well.

theage.com.au/victoria/parents-shocked-as-priest-compares-adultery-to-paedophilia


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Personal said:


> Poppycock! Infidelity is not abuse and Clay2013 drew the paedophilia bow. And others have made such claims as well.
> 
> theage.com.au/victoria/parents-shocked-as-priest-compares-adultery-to-paedophilia


No rational, competent person has ever made such a claim.

Definition of abuse:
2. treat (a person or an animal) with cruelty or violence, especially regularly or repeatedly.
Having an affair is definitely cruel to a faithful spouse. No way around it.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Definition of abuse:
> 2. treat (a person or an animal) with cruelty or violence, especially regularly or repeatedly.
> Having an affair is definitely cruel to a faithful spouse. No way around it.


I don't think infidelity is abuse. The wayward rarely intends to be cruel, unless perhaps it's a revenge affair. It's may be neglect, but not abuse.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> I don't think infidelity is abuse. The wayward rarely intends to be cruel, unless perhaps it's a revenge affair. It's may be neglect, but not abuse.


Why do some people have to get treated for PTSD after getting betrayed, if it's just a case of simple neglect?


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Married but Happy said:


> I don't think infidelity is abuse. The wayward rarely intends to be cruel, unless perhaps it's a revenge affair. It's may be neglect, but not abuse.


If I shoot you when I didn't mean to, you're still dead. I still killed you. 

Intent is less applicable here than result. 

And even if the sleeping with someone else isn't considered abusive in and of itself, the taking of all the things you take from a relationship while being unfaithful is. Consider the first use of abuse (again from Webster)
1. use (something) to bad effect or for a bad purpose; misuse.
If you are, for instance, taking financial support from your spouse while sleeping with something else, that's abuse. You are misusing your spouse.


But here's the real bottom line: "Abuse" is a word. A label we use to encode a particular concept and like any encoding/decoding, it is subject to differences in interpretation. Even if we agree that it is not an appropriate label to apply to infidelity, the fact remains that cheating is a horrible, horrific, horrendous thing to do. Saying otherwise is just minimizing. That doesn't mean the victim should be crushed or use that as an excuse to give up on life, etc. It just means we acknowledge the heinousness of the act so that we know what we're up against in understanding what it's going to take to overcome it. Being strong and moving on is still the outstanding requirement, but that's not possible if we avoid facing the severity of what we need to move on from.


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## Rick Blaine (Mar 27, 2017)

Married but Happy said:


> I don't think infidelity is abuse. The wayward rarely intends to be cruel, unless perhaps it's a revenge affair. It's may be neglect, but not abuse.



Have you ever been betrayed by your spouse? Being cheated on is unimaginably painful. That is why betrayed spouses often loses excessive amounts of weight and are sleep deprived. Cheating is an act of abuse.

Here a marriage expert's explanation about why it is a horrible act of spousal abuse: https://youtu.be/m8QKOUbosNo

Start at 4:30.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Rick Blaine said:


> Have you ever been betrayed by your spouse? Being cheated on is unimaginably painful. That is why betrayed spouses often loses excessive amounts of weight and are sleep deprived. Cheating is an act of abuse.
> 
> Here a marriage expert's explanation about why it is a horrible act of spousal abuse: https://youtu.be/m8QKOUbosNo
> 
> Start at 4:30.


Yes, I have. Still, wayward spouses rarely INTEND that result, so it is not abuse. People do lots of hurtful things that are not intentional. I think people overplay the abuse angle - if it makes them feel better to think so, fine, but it still doesn't make it abuse.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

azteca1986 said:


> Why do some people have to get treated for PTSD after getting betrayed, if it's just a case of simple neglect?


Still not abuse, IMO. There is no intent to do harm. If your definition of abuse is so broad, then denying sex is also intentional abuse, always. That would be a ridiculous claim, too, IMO. And some people experience PTSD after witnessing a terrible, gruesome accident that they were not involved in - that also is not abuse.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> I don't think infidelity is abuse. The wayward rarely intends to be cruel, unless perhaps it's a revenge affair. It's may be neglect, but not abuse.


Just because an abuser doesn't mean to hurt someone doesn't mean it isn't abuse.

Results trump intent. I might not have intended to really hurt you as I ripped your arm from it's socket but the resulting harm would certainly trump my intent.

Cheaters are abusers on the emotional/ mental level and could be argued on the physical if they bring home a fun and sharable disease.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Personal said:


> Nothing new under the sun, since such behaviour is as old as monogamy and far from uncommon. Which is hardly a surprise since humans as a species aren't monogamous.
> 
> That said when it comes to modern wives, let us also not forget Lady Seymour Worsley and her 28 extramarital conquests. Amongst many other cases of marital infidelity that litter historical court records from before and after her.
> 
> Then there is the following from a May 22, 1971 edition of an Australian women's magazine called New Idea that is worth reading.


If that was a woman quoted in the magazine example, what a pathetic excuse of a deranged and ignorant s**t.

Great advice if you are a goat...


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Personal said:


> A good dose of resilience and not encouraging people to think they are victims of abuse, by treating people like delicate flowers. Would largely see an end to years of pain and anguish and nonsensical claims that sexual infidelity is as heinous a crime as raping children.


I definitely agree with this. Infidelity is abusive but I never encourage someone to act as a victim.

Swift and decisive action is excellent for nipping infidelity at the roots, not cowering and crying even if you might feel like it.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Married but Happy said:


> *I don't think infidelity is abuse. The wayward rarely intends to be cruel, unless perhaps it's a revenge affair. It's may be neglect, but not abuse.*


*Try telling me that it is not abuse when two wives that I made holy, heartfelt vows to before God, clergy, family, community and friends, and then flippantly cheated with other men, thus ripping my heart out of my chest and dicing it into small pieces as I slowly watched, losing what little faith I had in humanity!

If this is considered to be the new norm, then I really don't need to marry, much less date another woman ever again!*


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> Still not abuse, IMO. There is no intent to do harm.


I'm sorry, but this is the second time in last few days I've seen this claim that there is "no intent to do harm". Just because the person having the affair is so utterly selfish that they aren't even thinking of their partner is a terrible defence of their behaviour. The "intent" is missing because they're so self-absorbed.

Gaslighting, a very common Wayward behaviour, is the _deliberate_ attempt to undermine the betrayed's ability to trust their own judgement. That's abuse.

And when on DDay the bottom falls out of their world, they are simultaneously forced to confront the fact that they can no longer trust their past whilst having their cosy future snatched from them. That extreme de-stabilisation is then further compounded by the fact that the one person they could turn to in a crisis is the very person that caused the traumatic event. 

"There is no intent to do harm" just shows that Waywards are always selfish _and_ think they won't get caught, hence why they don't give a damn about consequences.


> If your definition of abuse is so broad, then denying sex is also intentional abuse, always. That would be a ridiculous claim, too, IMO.


A claim I didn't make. For brevity, let's just stick to the stuff I do claim.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Married but Happy said:


> *Yes, I have. Still, wayward spouses rarely INTEND that result, so it is not abuse. People do lots of hurtful things that are not intentional. I think people overplay the abuse angle - if it makes them feel better to think so, fine, but it still doesn't make it abuse.*


* You are so correct!

Cheating is definitely not abuseful to the perpetrator and to their illicit partner!

But it damn sure is to all of the unwitting victims that it effects! 

A case in point: A drunken driver takes to the road and did not intend to collide with another vehicle and subsequently take lives! 

With that in mind, then DUI, much like adultery, would be totally victimless!*


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

TX-SC said:


> Perhaps the correct answer here is that men should go into marriage planning to cheat too. Or, stop getting married!


If I was a younger man today

Not a chance I would get married and by any standard I have a good wife and marriage

55


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

I am a serial wayward and even I think infidelity is abuse. The only thing I don't agree with that some say on CWI is that infidelity is more rampant "these days". I think its always pretty much been the same, and I also don't think adding stricter legal repercussions will stop people from cheating. It might give the spouse that was cheated on more options, however I would imagine the burden of proof would be high.


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## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

If this happened to me, I'd file for divorce immediately. However, I would also go through the effort in finding proof and file for an at fault divorce due to adultery (still able in my state) and put her through the public trial. Which, I'd see if I can do a live stream on Youtube or Facebook.

Adultery hurts on so many levels. Plus, you are conjoined with the spouse through property and finance. Just disgusting. If I ever run for office, I would certainly see what can be done to restore the sanctity of marriage. At one time, it meant something. Nowadays, not so much.


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

Women cheat cause in 2017 society has handed them all the options of enablement. Just like everything else its up to the individual on what they do. Its just made a lot easier these days.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

SunCMars said:


> With women working and having their own careers it is now easier.
> 
> The fear of pregnancy is goaaane.
> 
> ...


and women also will go after married men.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TX-SC said:


> Perhaps the correct answer here is that men should go into marriage planning to cheat too. Or, stop getting married!


That's really sad. 
There are still countless men and women who would never cheat.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> That's really sad.
> There are still countless men and women who would never cheat.


Although my marriage is cheating free, the reality is that the chances of one or the other spouse cheating is quite high. So, if you know YOU won't cheat, we'll, guess who probably will?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TX-SC said:


> Although my marriage is cheating free, the reality is that the chances of one or the other spouse cheating is quite high. So, if you know YOU won't cheat, we'll, guess who probably will?


I wouldn't marry a man who didn't have very strong moral values. Even if 50% cheat that still leaves countless millions who never will.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> I wouldn't marry a man who didn't have very strong moral values. Even if 50% cheat that still leaves countless millions who never will.


I would venture to guess that 99% of the people who marry THINK their spouse has great values. I would hope most people wouldn't knowingly marry someone with poor values!?

Most of the people on here "never saw it coming."


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

If I were a young woman or man today I would be very weary of marrying. There is just way too much entitlement. Entitlement to me is probably one of the biggest factors in cheating. Millennial seem like some of the most entitled people of any generation ever.

As far as intent to do wrong. Why do they hide it if they don't know they are going to hurt their spouse? Saying they don't know they would harm someone is just plain bull****. They know, the spend lots of brainpower coming up with elaborate lies to hide it. Why bother if they think it's no big deal. 

But lets say that they don't truly understand. If a guy robs a bank and has no intention of killing someone, if in the process someone gets shot and killed no one would give him a pass for killing that person. It's still murder. 

About the only time I don't feel this way is the drunken one night stand. I personally won't stay though.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Rick Blaine said:


> Have you ever been betrayed by your spouse? Being cheated on is unimaginably painful.


I have, and painful though it was, it certainly wasn't unimaginably painful. In fact I have experienced other things that were much worse and far more traumatic, yet those things weren't that bad either.

Bad things happen, so what!

At the end of the day as long as you are still alive things haven't been that bad, so dust yourself off and keep going.



azteca1986 said:


> Why do some people have to get treated for PTSD after getting betrayed, if it's just a case of simple neglect?


Some people are less resilient to traumatic experiences than others. Despite the fact that trauma is not an uncommon experience for 50-60% (US figures) of people, most people including those who experience trauma don't suffer from PTSD at all.

The question I would ask is why do some people experience PTSD following sexual betrayal, while the vast majority don't?

What is the difference between those who are less resistant to trauma versus those who are more resistant?

What tools can we employ to make those who are less resilient more resilient so that they don't have a breakdown?

That said PTSD isn't the end of the world either, people can and do recover from it so there is hope.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

When my ex-wife guiltily confessed to her sexual infidelity with another man at a party just after I returned from being away for work for a while, my stomach felt like it turned sideways.

Which was then followed by a deep feeling of anger towards her alone for her egregious betrayal. On the outside I was a wall of silence and pure calm, on the inside I hated her for what she had done. At one point she even told me to hit her for what she had done, which just made me feel more contempt for her that she would think I would do that. So I then walked out and left.

A few days I after that, she wanted to get back together to make our marriage work. She even had my my mother bothering me to give it a try. So I dated her for a bit, to give it a try, yet I felt nothing when she wanted to hold my hand, and I felt crap if she made me smile, because at the back of my mind the surface stuff didn't take away what she did with someone else. We even got to the point of having sex a couple of times, yet I just felt numb doing it with her.

So then I stopped and then she upped her supplication and prostration towards me in words and deed. Yet none of that assuaged my disgust for what she did. Then she called me in another bid during that time to recover our relationship. I arrived and on her own initiative she took her clothes off, got on all fours and begged me to have sex with her. So I did exactly that and while doing it I started to feel an intense feeling of hatred and loathing towards her. As those feelings welled up in me in the moment, I hate ****ed her and used her with absolutely no regard at all.

Then when it was over I felt unclean, I felt like I needed to wash her off me, I felt like I had become as loathsome as her, I then decided I never wanted to touch her vileness again. I realised I could not be with her, so I told her that she disgusted me and that we were done forever. She is the only person I have ever hate ****ed.

From that point we became legally separated pending divorce which was about 2 weeks after her confession.

The next day she then went with the guy who she had cheated on me before with, for a couple of weeks until he kicked her to the curb. She then went with another guy who was older than me who had gone to the same school that I had gone to and on and on etc.

I then took some time alone and travelled away for a few days alone, got my head together got back into things, changed direction got over myself, got over it and a few months later started sharing sex with other women for the first time.

At the end of the day though I don't believe she intended to be cruel to me just as I didn't intend to be cruel to her, yet we found ourselves being cruel to each other.

By cheating on me, she forfeited her opportunity to be with me. So we both moved on, since there's no point in having a pity party while crying into the corn flakes.

Such is life.

P.S. I didn't and don't hate the other guy at all, he owed me nothing and promised me nothing. My ex-wife was the only person responsible for her marital infidelity, since she was the only person who promised me sexual fidelity back then.

I think where a lot of people get unstuck is they misdirect their anger towards the person or persons who had what was freely offered. Instead of directing there anger at their spouse who promised them fidelity yet freely offered themselves to another or others.

At the end of the day humans as a species aren't actually monogamous. Monogamy is a choice, sometimes humans err, and sometimes give in to their natural propensity to desire others.

The more people understand that the less often they will be surprised if they find themselves on the wrong end of sexual infidelity.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> If that was a woman quoted in the magazine example, what a pathetic excuse of a deranged and ignorant s**t.
> 
> Great advice if you are a goat...


I can't say I agree with her, the thing is though there are lots of people who share her perspective so we should be mindful of that reality.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

GusPolinski said:


> “Because They Want To”, 2017 Edition


Indeed.

BTW, that was the Headline, 2000, 2005, 2010, 2015.

These Phyco Types can "re-write" the same line every 5 years like it's some great enlightenment!


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Personal said:


> I have, and painful though it was, it certainly wasn't unimaginably painful. In fact I have experienced other things that were much worse and far more traumatic, yet those things weren't that bad either.
> 
> Bad things happen, so what!
> 
> ...


So you have a high emotional pain tolerance and in this case it served you well. All you need to do is read the threads and realize how painful it is for others. Kind of crappy to dismiss others pain because it wasn't a big deal to you. Try having some empathy. I DO agree there is hope, but it's hard to see that at first.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

Personal said:


> Some people are less resilient to traumatic experiences than others.


At least we both agree the wayward inflicts trauma. That puts the offence closer to abuse than neglect, to me.



> That said PTSD isn't the end of the world either, people can and do recover from it so there is hope.


No one said it was. People learn to live with other kinds of abuse, or having both their legs blown off. So, what?


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

Personal said:


> I think where a lot of people get unstuck is they misdirect their anger towards the person or persons who had what was freely offered. Instead of directing there anger at their spouse who promised them fidelity yet freely offered themselves to another or others.


That's what people have to do if they want to reconcile; re-direct their anger. It's no great mystery.

It sounds like you ex-wife confessed, so you were spared the weeks, months, years of gaslighting, blameshifting and the feeling you'd been living a lie.

Contempt, hatred, loathing, disgust - pretty strong emotions for someone who was merely neglected.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

TX-SC said:


> Perhaps the correct answer here is that men should go into marriage planning to cheat too. Or, stop getting married!


A lot of men do go into marriage with the intent to cheat. Nothing new there.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

azteca1986 said:


> It sounds like you ex-wife confessed, so you were spared the weeks, months, years of gaslighting, blameshifting and the feeling you'd been living a lie.
> 
> Contempt, hatred, loathing, disgust - pretty strong emotions for someone who was merely neglected.


There was no neglect or abuse on her behalf at all. It was a simple betrayal by someone who I loved and trusted.

At the time I felt loathing and hatred towards her in response to her betrayal, which is a perfectly reasonable response to betrayal. Instead of wallowing in narcissistic self pity, I then got over it and moved on, which is also a reasonable response.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

TX-SC said:


> I would venture to guess that 99% of the people who marry THINK their spouse has great values. I would hope most people wouldn't knowingly marry someone with poor values!?
> 
> Most of the people on here "never saw it coming."


He has never had sex outside marriage, he never looks at porn, he never cheated in his first 23 year marriage despite her controlling if and when they had sex, and not being very happy, and has the highest moral values of anyone I have ever met. I would not have married again unless I met a man like him. Plus we are semi retired and we work from home. As he says, its just not worth the pain it causes. Also his ex cheated so he is even more aware of the mess it creates. 
Its not something either of us would do, and there are others here who are the same.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> A lot of men do go into marriage with the intent to cheat. Nothing new there.


I dont think that many intend to cheat when they marry.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> I dont think that many intend to cheat when they marry.


I'm sure many do and most don't.

One of my wife's friends was engaged to this guy who told me he intended to cheat on her throughout his marriage with prostitutes. She told my wife she was resigned to the fact that men will cheat on their wives.

My wife and I really liked her and thought he was a complete sleaze.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

Personal said:


> There was no neglect or abuse on her behalf at all. It was a simple betrayal by someone who I loved and trusted.
> 
> At the time I felt loathing and hatred towards her in response to her betrayal, which is a perfectly reasonable response to betrayal.


If you need me to point out the obvious, here goes - your situation is, well, personal. You made the blanket statement that infidelity is not abuse. If you were to open your mind a crack you might realise that your personal experience is not representative of all. 


> Instead of *wallowing in narcissistic self pity*, I then got over it and moved on, which is also a reasonable response.


Horribly judgemental. Your "reasonable response" is irrelevant to people who choose to reconcile.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

azteca1986 said:


> Horribly judgemental. Your "reasonable response" is irrelevant to people who choose to reconcile.


I'm an ENTJ, of course I'm judgemental. :wink2:


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Personal said:


> I'm sure many do and most don't.
> 
> One of my wife's friends was engaged to this guy who told me he intended to cheat on her throughout his marriage with prostitutes. She told my wife she was resigned to the fact that men will cheat on their wives.
> 
> My wife and I really liked her and thought he was a complete sleaze.


I wonder why she thought she had to settle for such a horrible man?


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Was absolutely emotional abuse. Of all the trauma I have been through
loss of a child
Being stabbed
Car accident I almost died in
Infidelity was the one thing I had to actually go to therapy for. The one thing I couldn’t reconcile in my own mind ....how or why it happened. 

As to why women cheat it’s the same reason men do, because they can and if they have low morals or no character then they will.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> I wonder why she thought she had to settle for such a horrible man?


He was of the same ethnic and national background as her, which conformed with how she was raised.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Married but Happy said:


> Yes, I have. Still, wayward spouses rarely INTEND that result, so it is not abuse. People do lots of hurtful things that are not intentional. I think people overplay the abuse angle - if it makes them feel better to think so, fine, but it still doesn't make it abuse.


My cheating ex-wife infected me with an HPV strain she caught from her disgusting behavior. I now have life-threatening throat cancer as a result. She couldn't be bothered to even have "protected" sex while cheating.

Explain to me how that is not abusive?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

michzz said:


> My cheating ex-wife infected me with an HPV strain she caught from her disgusting behavior. I now have life-threatening throat cancer as a result. She couldn't be bothered to even have "protected" sex while cheating.
> 
> Explain to me how that is not abusive?


Again, neglect - and stupidity. Not abuse. And I'm sorry to hear that you suffer physically as well as emotionally. Still, as awful as cheating is, it's part of human nature, and many people succumb to their nature. Human beings are - overall - despicable in their behavior towards others. Compassion, kindness, and civilization are thin veneers over human nature. Forget that at your peril.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> I wouldn't marry a man who didn't have very strong moral values. Even if 50% cheat that still leaves countless millions who never will.


Don't take this the wrong way.

If I were to outlive you and be present at your final medical 'examination'.

I would look to see '*what is in there*'....in that noggin of yours'.

This loyalty to one's vows.

I would not patent it. I would put this elixir in all the water reservoirs in the world.

Alas, being Martian, it would pass through me. My enzymes not breaking it down.
Then again, I do not need it. Yet.

'Yet', is always on one's horizon.

Like a murky cloud. One, having a sneer and a scowl.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Married but Happy said:


> Again, neglect - and stupidity. Not abuse. And I'm sorry to hear that you suffer physically as well as emotionally. Still, as awful as cheating is, it's part of human nature, and many people succumb to their nature. Human beings are - overall - despicable in their behavior towards others. Compassion, kindness, and civilization are thin veneers over human nature. Forget that at your peril.


That still meets the dictionary definition of abuse as presented above.

And only animals are restricted by their "nature." Humans have the power of thought, fairness, compassion, and love. Some "succumb to their nature, " but in doing so, the forsake the very things that separate them from lower life forms and choose to become less than fully human.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> That still meets the dictionary definition of abuse as presented above.
> 
> And only animals are restricted by their "nature." Humans have the power of thought, fairness, compassion, and love. Some "succumb to their nature, " but in doing so, the forsake the very things that separate them from lower life forms and choose to become less than fully human.


I disagree. 

Abuse:
1. use (something) to bad effect or for a bad purpose; misuse.
"the judge abused his power by imposing the fines"
synonyms:	misuse, misapply, misemploy; 
2. treat (a person or an animal) with cruelty or violence, especially regularly or repeatedly.
"riders who abuse their horses should be prosecuted"
synonyms:	mistreat, maltreat, ill-treat, treat badly;

IMO, cheating clearly does not meet either definition of abuse.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Married but Happy said:


> I disagree.
> 
> Abuse:
> 1. use (something) to bad effect or for a bad purpose; misuse.
> ...


This person was definitely "used to bad effect."


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> I disagree.
> 
> Abuse:
> 1. use (something) to bad effect or for a bad purpose; misuse.
> ...


Can you expand on this thought?

It appears that cheating meets both criteria of the definition:
1) use (something) to bad effect or for a bad purpose - She used her body to commit acts of infidelity
2) treat (a person or an animal) with cruelty or violence, especially regularly or repeatedly. - If you don't think committing infidelity is an act of cruelty, I'm not sure where to go. You break the person's trust. You shift their world paradigm. You cause personality realignments. You destroy families. You inflict mental and emotional pain on your children. If you're religious, you break your covenant with your partner and your god. Clear acts of cruelty.

I'm not sure how you can't call it abuse.


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## Jethro (Aug 16, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> I disagree.
> 
> Abuse:
> 1. use (something) to bad effect or for a bad purpose; misuse.
> ...


I respectfully disagree with your conclusion and your assumption that people have to intend to harm their spouse for abuse to have taken place. 

Neither of the definitions above indicate that intent is a requirement. If intent is required for abuse to have taken place then a child who is abused by a parent with a serious mental illness could be said not to have been abused. Tell that to a child abuse survivor. I am sure knowing they weren't technically abused would be a comfort.

Further, the synonyms, especially for the second definition clearly fit an affair situation. If breaking one's vows and giving emotional/physical love to another is not "mistreatment," "ill treatment," or being "treated badly," for the betrayed spouse, what would it be? Abuse can be emotional, not just physical, correct? 

For myself, as for many others who have posted on this site, the discovery of the affair was a validation of sorts regarding other issues that were ongoing in their marital relationship. True, some betrayed spouses are completely blindsided, but in many cases D-day causes them to reflect on past clues and behaviors that they may have downplayed or overlooked until then.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> I disagree.
> 
> IMO, cheating clearly does not meet either definition of abuse.


Once you take out the definition, you've not made it any more clear why infidelity doesn't fit those criteria.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

snerg said:


> Can you expand on this thought?
> 
> It appears that cheating meets both criteria of the definition:
> 1) use (something) to bad effect or for a bad purpose - She used her body to commit acts of infidelity
> ...


IMO, it meets neither. 1 would be abusing herself, not her spouse, so does not count. 2 does not involve cruelty or violence to the spouse - the spouse may interpret the result as cruel, but there is no direct cruelty.

If the infidelity is never discovered, is there no abuse? Is it only abuse when discovered, and there is an emotional response? Thus, IMO there is no abuse. And if cheating is abuse, then so is avoiding or denying sex with your spouse, or withholding intimacy and acts of kindness - even without intent? In that case, my ex was abusive for years before she cheated. In that case, did that abuse come first, before the cheating? Does abuse lead to abuse? Or does neglect lead to neglect? Pick your term of choice, but my interpretation is that cheating is not abuse under all but very limited circumstances.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Married but Happy said:


> IMO, it meets neither. 1 would be abusing herself, not her spouse, so does not count. 2 does not involve cruelty or violence to the spouse - the spouse may interpret the result as cruel, but there is no direct cruelty.
> 
> If the infidelity is never discovered, is there no abuse? Is it only abuse when discovered, and there is an emotional response? Thus, IMO there is no abuse. And if cheating is abuse, then so is avoiding or denying sex with your spouse, or withholding intimacy and acts of kindness - even without intent? In that case, my ex was abusive for years before she cheated. In that case, did that abuse come first, before the cheating? Does abuse lead to abuse? Or does neglect lead to neglect? Pick your term of choice, but my interpretation is that cheating is not abuse under all but very limited circumstances.


Cruelty is only in the spouses mind?!?!? Egad!

Even if you buy into that, the direct abuse specifically of the spouse comes in using the spouse for all the other benefits of marriage while ****ing someone else. That is abuse--using them in a very, very bad way.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

I agree that it is abusive to betray a person in that way. In cheating, you take a person's trust and basically destroy it while stabbing them in the back. Yes, it is abusive whether you mean it to be or not.


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## Good Guy (Apr 26, 2016)

Personal said:


> When my ex-wife guiltily confessed to her sexual infidelity with another man at a party just after I returned from being away for work for a while, my stomach felt like it turned sideways.
> 
> Which was then followed by a deep feeling of anger towards her alone for her egregious betrayal. On the outside I was a wall of silence and pure calm, on the inside I hated her for what she had done. At one point she even told me to hit her for what she had done, which just made me feel more contempt for her that she would think I would do that. So I then walked out and left.
> 
> ...


Great analysis. I would add that I know I am not monogamous by nature, so I always make it clear I am married upfront and if that doesn't work I get out of the situation where something potentially might happen. I also think anyone who says "it just happened" and "it's not like me" is lying to make themselves look better in other people's eyes.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

michzz said:


> My cheating ex-wife infected me with an HPV strain she caught from her disgusting behavior. I now have life-threatening throat cancer as a result. She couldn't be bothered to even have "protected" sex while cheating.
> 
> Explain to me how that is not abusive?





Married but Happy said:


> Again, neglect - and stupidity. Not abuse. And I'm sorry to hear that you suffer physically as well as emotionally. Still, as awful as cheating is, it's part of human nature, and many people succumb to their nature. Human beings are - overall - despicable in their behavior towards others. Compassion, kindness, and civilization are thin veneers over human nature. Forget that at your peril.


So, to you, life is a zero-sum game where everything from mass murder, infidelity, and even running a stop sign can be explained away by inattentive selfishness?

I don't buy it.

My ex-wife knew the risks and deliberately ignored them. She had been hyper-aware of STDs, at least I think so, since she would routinely accuse me of risking her health by "cheating." Something I never did, it was a smoke screen to cover her own behavior.

Yes, there is a lot of evil in the world and selfish destructive behavior. MUCH of it is abusive toward others. That it is frequent doesn't negate the abusive nature of it.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Rick Blaine said:


> Well, this article paints an entitled and narrsasistic picture of the modern wife. Maybe I will just stay single. A man can never know if his girlfriend has or will develop this mindset once married. According to the author it's something the woman would deliberately hide without shame. *Too bad there is not a character test that can be taken before marriage to protect men from these frauds. *
> 
> Before our lady readers get defensive or feel singled out (I realize that for every cheating wife there is a cheating husband) the article was about attitudes about infidelity held by wives, not infidelity in general. My comments address the article.


Actually there are, though it's more keeping an eye on red flags than not. Adopting the mentality of "it's not who you trust but what you trust them to do", remaining vigilant, ensuring spouses know that there will be consequences if they choose to cheat, etc etc. Not allowing love to grow unless trust is there, as love can be blinding.

I've never had a LTR with women who cheated, it comes down to their morality, inspirations, role models, and passion I found. The majority probably would and it wouldn't surprise me. Most people I wouldn't trust for anything serious. This forum made me abit weary in the past and made me question ex-wife's fidelity in the past as well, but investigations proved fruitless. She just wasn't the type.

Type - think that's the thing, I wouldn't trust feminists in general. I think it's due to the very same mentality that alot of these cheaters have, men are bad, we women are entitled to this and that. Of course not all feminists are like this, but you can kinda tell the ones who have respect for men and those who don't.


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## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

Such a sad state what marriage has turned into. It seems both parties now need to go into the contract with a trust, but verify type of attitude. This is one of the reasons why I cannot allow myself to marry again. It's just too much to lose at my age. Going through the divorce process once and how the other party just attempted to continue to raise legal costs (and get nothing at the end) is just illogical and irrational. 

Congrats to our legislators and the entertainment industry for placing the institute of marriage in such a disarray. Seems, by this article, love is temporary and not absolute.

As for keeping tabs on your spouse. This forum is more valuable then any other relationship forum out there. It opened my eyes and allowed me to take off those rose colored glasses I was wearing with my ex-wife for oh so long. For that, I thank all the members who've helped me over the last umpteen months.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> This person was definitely "used to bad effect."


Exactly. 

Manipulating. Lying. Placing kids at risk. Endangering health.

This is most certainly abuse.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Married but Happy said:


> IMO, it meets neither. 1 would be abusing herself, not her spouse, so does not count. 2 does not involve cruelty or violence to the spouse - the spouse may interpret the result as cruel, but there is no direct cruelty.
> 
> If the infidelity is never discovered, is there no abuse? Is it only abuse when discovered, and there is an emotional response? Thus, IMO there is no abuse. And if cheating is abuse, then so is avoiding or denying sex with your spouse, or withholding intimacy and acts of kindness - even without intent? In that case, my ex was abusive for years before she cheated. In that case, did that abuse come first, before the cheating? Does abuse lead to abuse? Or does neglect lead to neglect? Pick your term of choice, but my interpretation is that cheating is not abuse under all but very limited circumstances.


cheating is abuse MBH. No question about it. You are wrong here. 

Reading this article made my skin crawl.

I see little reason to get married if you are a guy anymore


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