# Struggling with my own mess. . . somewhat



## edot30 (Apr 19, 2011)

To summarize, my wife has been in a relationship with another man online for a long time. Granted, I have known about it the entire time, as we all started out as friends, but eventually communication dropped off with me and picked up with her quite a bit.

Now she has said every time I have asked how he was doing that things were good, and every time I expressed any concern she told me they were just friends and there was nothing to worry about. 

I have seen in logs where he has said he would not contact her at home as not to cause problems, I have seen her telling him about how horrible I am, along with statements such as her saying, 'I am in a good mood and feeling bouncy today!' with him responding, 'Well you can come bounce on me!' and her laughing response. . . 

Most of the conversation isn't in logs as when we talked before she said that he wanted to keep logs turned off (with gmail its on or off for both sides it seems) so that I wouldnt see them and get worried there was something going on. 

She is able to be on messenger all day at work, and so his he some days, I however am not. I have seen things every time I have looked at the logs with him that I really had problems with. That said, she suffers from strong depression at times, and has almost no friends outside of the relationship, this guy being just about it. 

She says they do not talk often any more, but she is computer savvy, and knows how to turn logs off. I do see logs there at times, referring to them playing games together and such on the PS3 at home, communicating via headset (as he is about 800 miles away)

The last time this conversation started with me telling her that either him or I had to go, due to the amount of flirting, and statements like 'You can bounce on me' not being called out, and in fact responded positively to (with things like 'hehe' or winking smiley faces) I realized about halfway through this conversation though that this was just about her only friend outside the relationship, and with her depression, might not be a good thing to take away. I have tried to help her make other friends, but with little success. That, and she always tells me how she just relates better to men then women, so gets along better with them. The conversation ended with me telling her that any flirting at all had to stop, but they could keep talking.

So here I sit, a month later, with her telling me they dont talk often anymore, and periodically seeing a few words come across in her logs, but thats it, but knowing that I have zero access to her work system, so dont know whats in that e-mail account, or what other IM systems might be running on that, although I have seen a 45 minute phone call on the record from him 2 weeks ago.

Everything might be going the right way, but I do not know how I can trust her. . . She has a hard time with boundries with her friends, and thinks its only natural to talk about sex and such topics all the time with everyone, and just naturally comes off as flirty, so we have had a few issues in the past with other guys that only lasted a month or two before it stopped, but she tells me she doesnt mean anything by it and doesnt realize that it had gotten that way until pointed out. in the past, there have never been any intentions to hide it, but she is far more defensive of this guy, as they are much closer. . 

I guess I am just wondering how to deal with my own concession of letting her maintain a friendship with this guy with the knowledge that he has said he wont contact her at home, and that he wants to hide logs. . . 

I wonder if I should call his wife who I havent talked to in a year and a half and find out how much of what is going on she is aware of.

The rest of the story is here: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/24450-complicated.html

Ugh, this wasn't intended to be a book. . . I just get going on topics I care about sometimes. I guess I dont know how to make a short post on this topic.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

I have been almost exactly where you are now.

I'd suggest you tell her - sooner rather than later - that it has to end. Completely. Once and for all. Immediately.

If she will not end it, she needs to clearly understand that you see her choice as a conscious decision that her relationship with him is more important to her than her marriage to you. And, at that point, you'll need to decide how much of that you're wiling to put up with before you've had your fill.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## edot30 (Apr 19, 2011)

When we had fought about it before, she had defended him more so, but this last time, it seems she finially knew something was wrong.

In previous fights, she would tell me I was just being controlling and obnoxious, and that he was my friend too, we just lost touch. She would say things like, 'Would you stop being so controlling, you dont want to make me choose either being with you or having friends!'

That said, I don't mind the idea of opposite-sex friends, but I think there should be a limit on communication. Several hours a day every day is pushing past that, which is where it was in previous arguments about it.

This last one though when I started by saying, 'Either you stop talking to him completely, or I am out!', she for the first time seemed to choose me, which was a really nice feeling. She immediatly said, 'Done. I will delete his contact information from everything.' She told me that before she was hesitant to do so as she thought we were in a rougher place, and now she has more faith in us. I think her taking my side on this one is what led to me being able to agree to her staying friends with him. 

Still, she doesnt see it as any sort of affair, and just thinks that conversation in the friendship with him was about topics I didn't like her talking about with other people. I can't help but see it as that though when it was a minimum of an hour a day for a year, and more most days.

I should be able to trust it seems, I just am not sure how anymore. The fact that she simply can not see it as anything inappropriate and she sees it as me trying to be controlling definetally hurts the idea of being able to trust. If she cant feel its wrong. . . . whats to stop it?

I have entertained the thought of going and finding some attractive woman to start hanging out with and talking to constantally, including all day at work somehow so maybe she could see it from my perspective, but I know the truth of the matter is that whole thought train is stupid, as it not only would mean I am trying less to fix my marraige, but that I am weakening my position, and sending a message that it is acceptable behavior. . . Of course I am already sending that message in a way it seems. lol

(just as a site note, as I made a joke in another thread about 'coming here to find some weak vulnerable woman to talk to' in reference to whether it was wrong or not that I was here without my wife's knowledge at the moment, I feel the need to state again that is NOT what I am looking for)


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

oh I had read that on your other thread, I know you were jesting, I commented on your other one.


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## edot30 (Apr 19, 2011)

I just figured to be safe. You never know how something is going to be taken, especially in text.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

understood


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## edot30 (Apr 19, 2011)

Well, I wrote up a big email message to her on Friday detailing my thoughts on the manner, and intended to edit it today before sending it off. . .

Thats not exactly how that worked out. The topic came up Friday night, and I told her how I felt on most of it. I told about the message in progress. After more talking and arguing, I said, 'just read the damned thing' and sat down and sent it. 

After a long quiet time, she told me that when I bought my motorcycle, I made her feel as if she was completely worthless to me, as I at one point told her that I was going to get one and she was simply going to have to deal with that. I explained that I knew that was wrong, but that I felt I had lost all control of my life, was afraid to even breathe wrong because it seemed no matter what I did I got attacked for, even things for her, and that I was pretty sure she was cheating on me at the time with this guy we argued about many times and she repeatedly chose him over me, so at the time her opinion did mean very little. It did not mean I did not care for her or that she was worthless, simply that her opinion meant little. I also explained to her that if at the time her reason against it was due to safety, or finances, I would not have done so, and would actually have appreciated the concern, but her reason simply being that she did not like me having one at the time as it was something we had fought about previously was not enough. 

Anyway, her argument was not that her and OM's relationship was ok, but that I had made her feel like she was completely worthless to me with the bike thing and that had pushed her to him more. I wish her side was apologetic, but it seemed to be more blaming me for it, although the bike thing was 6 months ago, and our arguments about her relationship with him had been going on for over a year. She did say things had gotten much closer over the past few months.

She kept saying that she was going to just let the relationship taper off, and ignore most of his comments and such. I told her that as I said before, she can keep contact as long as the rest of it stopped, but she needed to understand that gaining any trust back was going to be incredibly difficult and take a very long time, if it was possible. I told her that I would try and maintain patience with it, but that I was honestly unsure that I would be able to do so, and I wouldn't stay with someone I couldn't trust, and that I what I really wanted was a letter sent to him saying no more contact, but it was her choice.

I told her my biggest problem is more the fact that she seems to not know where the limits are, and to be unable to stop things when she sees them getting to this point, so without knowing she could say to stop, I couldnt know it wouldnt happen again. 

She did eventually say she would write a letter. . .


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## edot30 (Apr 19, 2011)

Now that she said she is going to write a letter, I can't help but feel bad about it. She has had a round of severe depression, and when she was standing on the bridge and called another friend, he told her he was too busy, but this is the guy that did talk to her and said he always would. I was not an option to call at the time.

This has been a good friend of hers for a long time, and pretty much her only friend. I hate that I am taking her friend away from her in this, even though I hate the relationship because of what it became. She has developed more friendships with people recently, so that helps at least. . .

Thing is, there was never anything physical, although I know he was her emotional support for a long time, and there was a lot of heavy flirting and sexual comments going back and forth over the hours they talked for a long time. 

I dont think they have talked for hours much recently, and there are only a few sexual comments, mostly from him which she giggles or smiles to. 

I also know that her and I had major problems for a long time, and that I could not be the friend she needed at times, and he filled that gap, so of course they ended up closer. I feel in a lot of ways that I drove her to him more. 

I told her to send me a copy of the letter before she sent it to him, and she said she would not have me tell her exactly what to say. In my mind, I keep thinking that just a sign that she will do that will be enough, and she wouldnt need to send it, but I know I would constantally wonder in the future what was happening, and worry about future friends as she seems unable to say no when things hit limits. . .

This whole thing is hard, and it doesnt help that I am second guessing myself now, thinking maybe this whole thing is a mistake on my side and I should just her do what she chooses. .

AARGH!


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

trust me, I secondguess myself all of the time, it gets easier.


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## edot30 (Apr 19, 2011)

I sure hope so. . .

I know whats going on there isn't right, and she has said so herself, but I know they were friends for a while first, and it being her only one for a long time, and the one she turned to that stopped her from jumping off that bridge when I could not certainly makes it harder. . .

I cant like the guy for obvious reasons, but I can't hate him for keeping her from jumping in front of a semi when her other friend hung up on her either.

Just makes it more scary to take away that lifeline (literally in this case) even though there are other friends now. . .


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