# In Limbo for nearly 2 years.



## Vegemite (Apr 12, 2012)

Hi all. I'm relatively new here. I thought I'd share my story for anyone interested. It might help someone and it might help me.

* I'm coming up to 2 years since D-day. My CW had a 3 month PA with her friends husband. We have been together 20 years and this is the third time she has cheated on me. 

*We're still together. Yeah I'm mad right? This time I asked to separate & D. But she fought so hard to keep us together. We have 2 boys, and that's the one thing that stopped me following through with it.

*D-day was in June 2010. About 2 weeks after, I made the decision to forgive her.We told each other we loved one another. She was very grateful for about 10 days. Then she slipped back to her old aggressive tone. Absolutely no remorse.

* Like most marriages, ours wasn't perfect, but was okay.I agree we both had faults. She is very aggressive and critical. When she's like that,I tend to shut down & minimize communication with her. We argued which came first.

*But issues in the marriage and cheating aren't the same problem,as I'm sure most would agree. She tried always to mix the 2 and make her PA ,our joint fault. I never bought that for a moment.

* I started to do a lot of reading on the subject of infidelity.I quickly realized my CW is narcissistic. Not fullblown NPD. They come in all shades of grey. But she had a lot of the traits:
Blameshifting
Dishonesty & trickle truth.
Gaslighting
Intimidation
Sense of entitlement

*About 6 months after D-day, I sat her down one night and said I want a full account of the affair, Times, where, how many times.Everything. She claimed 2 times. I got a lot of the "delayed answers", "I can't recall" etc(I know a lot more about reading liars now, and she was dishing up this night) I said if I ever find out there's more to it, you're gone.

*We went though a lot of counselling, which was a huge waist of time and money. The last guy was a good psychologist, but treated it like MC. In other words, approached us like we were any couple having marriage problems, and ignore the cheating like it never happened. I argued with him many times over it. He said it's too hard for my CW if we discuss it. WTF?? Seems to be a common approach. So if there are any psychologists out there, I can tell you from experience, that approach doesn't work. If it seems to get success, then it would be because the BS is subservent.

*Moving forward to 3 months ago,things were calm and we were getting along okay. I found an article on the net which a included a letter (called Joseph's letter.I'll post an attachment when I find it) written by a BS pleading with his CW's integrity to be honest and disclose all about the A. I gave it to my CW and at first she disputed it's validity to our situation. I said nothing and left her to dwell on it.She finally came to me and said there were more times she had sex with this guy. She said she didn't deserve me.

* I've told her I don't love her and will never forgive her. But I don't hate her. We are still together and it's just okay. We never fight anymore. I'm respectful of her. She knows she has no bullits left to fire at me. So now she is as perfect as can be because I will tolerate nothing.

* So life's just okay. I don't kid myself that D would be wonderful. I know plenty of D'd people who move from one relationship to another and are very unhappy.

* So I'm comfortable. I wonder if my CW can keep up the perfect behaviour. Can you truly love someone and cheat on them? I don't believe so. I've been patient. I think she thinks that I'll eventually get over it and forget it. Well, not this time.
The level of blatant lying, trying to blame shift and knowing I have to look at her knowing what she did. I will never get over it. 

*So there it is. It's no success story. I don't believe there could be with cheating. Just my story so far. So if anyone has travelled further down the road to a better or even worse place or is in the same place, I'd appreciate anyone's thoughts. This forum is great!


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

How long do you think you go like this? 10 -20 more years?

And have you exposed the guy to his wife?


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## Vegemite (Apr 12, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> How long do you think you go like this? 10 -20 more years?
> 
> And have you exposed the guy to his wife?


It's unknown territory. As I said, it's not bad, it's not good. In the early days post D-day, the pain was incredible. It's nothing like that now. So like many others I'm sure, who are at the same place, it's a day by day existence. I'm giving her a chance. But I'm also extremely vigilent about her behaviour. Time will tell. She may prove that she is truly remorseful. She's doing a good job at the moment. But her history and cheaters behaviour in general have me extremely guarded.

The POSOM's wife was the one who discovered the A. My CW confessed to me,which at the time I thought was honourable. Found out days later, that the wife gave my CW the chance to confess, otherwise she would inform me herself. So no points for my CW for that.


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## LoveMouse (Apr 22, 2012)

It sounds to me like she'll never stop, she loves herself WAY TOO MUCH!!
I did the MC thing for 36 weeks w/ 2 different MC's.....both did the samething, ignor the affair til she was ready to talk about it, the problem was she wasn't sorry, she was still looking for the next man the whole time we were in MC!!!  You have to let go, move on. Check out <menwhoareabused/com> for more info on the NPD, gaslighting, 1/2 truths ETC. Good luck and remember...it could be worse, you could have never found out, now you have a chance at a real life, w/ real people who love U!!
Mouse


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

Vegemite said:


> * So I'm comfortable. I wonder if my CW can keep up the perfect behaviour. Can you truly love someone and cheat on them? I don't believe so. I've been patient. I think she thinks that I'll eventually get over it and forget it. Well, not this time.
> The level of blatant lying, trying to blame shift and knowing I have to look at her knowing what she did. I will never get over it.
> 
> *So there it is. It's no success story. I don't believe there could be with cheating. Just my story so far. So if anyone has travelled further down the road to a better or even worse place or is in the same place, I'd appreciate anyone's thoughts. This forum is great!


CW appears to be a narcissist, as does my CH, so her behavior, either good or bad, serves her and her only. Keep that in mind. She "dodged a bullet" by having an A and "getting away with it" (staying married).

The first round with my CH happened 10 years ago, and I forgave him because I wanted to keep the family together, I felt that he did love me deep inside, he showed remorse. It was all self-serving for him as he lost nothing in the process. My feelings of anger didn't count because he is narcissist. I was expected to forgive and forget; which I did for the sake of the children.

Fast Forward 10 years later. Kids are grown, he got bored, he started again. He got caught again, but he apparently didn't want to repeat the process of the last time, so he refused to leave the marital home and expected me to just deal with it. His EA (and PAs) went underground, but I suspect it would. In short, I left him this time.

I feel great. I no longer have to put up with his temper and controlling ways. His OW (plural) no longer worry me as it is over. My children visit me, love me, emotionally support my decision. I don't need him anymore. I no longer want him anymore and I am just fine without him.

So I ask you. Sincerely. Why stay in the marriage - with a narcissist? You do realize that, once this episode "blows over" it will happen again, because that sort of person is only concerned with herself (or himself). They will pretend to be sorry for all sorts of reasons, mainly financial, but all self-serving reasons. It's sadly not about you or loving you.

Freedom. Free to be me. Free to be you. No more walking on eggshells. No more waiting for that love that you thought you had. Time is precious to all of us.

So yes, I have walked a bit further (10 years later). I don't regret those 10 years as I was able to raise my sons in a nice house and two parent family. They are grown now and on their own. They still have two parents who no longer live together and, since they too have lived with a narcissist, are genuinely happy to see me separated.

I hope you find it within you to look out for yourself and consider your choices. Is she sincere, or are you being played? Is she worth it? Are you worth it? Your life is your choice, not hers.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

I am all for R where the BS can work through it but it sure sounds to me like you are literally just sitting around waiting for her to do it a FOURTH time. Why? To prove you right, that she couldn't be trusted all along? What kind of existence is that? Your threats mean nothing because you have followed up on none of them. ("if I ever find out there's more to it, you're gone"? Ha!) There are simply no consequences to her actions, she has shown, demonstrated, and proven she has no respect for you, and when she gets you past the emotional bump in her life and the mood strikes her, she will do what she feels like. if that works for you, more power to ya, but I'm sure it doesn't. The question is what is preventing you from moving on to a real life. IC should be addressing THAT, because it is not that you love your wife. 

I am just over one year from DDay, fully remorseful wife who has done all the heavy lifting. We tried R, mostly for the 7yr old son, but I just can't do it and we are in process of splitting. I do not pretend that's the right or only way forweard for everyone, but I'll be damned if I'll live a life that is just "OK", with a partner I have told I don't love her (why would SHE stay in that?), without mutual respect, waiting for the next time to happen while pretending to myself that "I will tolerate nothing" as my self-respect and insides get eaten up completely.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Vegemite said:


> *We went though a lot of counselling, which was a huge waist of time and money. The last guy was a good psychologist, but treated it like MC. In other words, approached us like we were any couple having marriage problems, and ignore the cheating like it never happened. I argued with him many times over it. He said it's too hard for my CW if we discuss it. WTF?? Seems to be a common approach. So if there are any psychologists out there, I can tell you from experience, that approach doesn't work. If it seems to get success, then it would be because the BS is subservent.


I realize you're done with MC.

But if for some reason you ever change your mind--which you certainly never have to do--but also for everyone else reading this thread--I just want to tell you, there ARE MC's out there who take the infidelity head on.

What I did was got a recommendation from my IC for a large sex addiction / porn addiction / infidelity practice group (yes I live in a metro area). They were too far a drive but they had other referrals for me.

As BSs--everyone on this thread can just imagine me interviewing these MCs over the phone. I talked to four of them, AND EVERY LAST ONE was clearly every bit as knowledgeable about infidelity as anyone could be. They know all of the lingo, they were not surprised by the secret-keeping, none of it.

I am thrilled with our MC. We had a 1.5 hour session where he told me to install GPS and backup software on my husband's phone and explained the importance of bringing my anxiety down so I could focus on R. He explained to my husband how transparency helps HIM prove he is serious about R and being loyal. He grilled my husband over what did / didn't go down PA-wise with the AP. He grilled my husband (not offensively, mind you, just to the point) about whether and how contact had ended.

We spent at least 30 minutes discussing exposure from many different angles.

Then he pulled Not Just Friends off the shelf and told my husband to read it. And he had my husband schedule IC.

In the second session, he had us talking about our individual fears / hopes / dreams, and our marital fears / hopes / dreams.

Well, one of my fears is that he will never love me the way he "said" he loved the AP, all that soulmate crap. I know it's crap, but when you see someone (in writing) going on and on and on about how someone who isn't you makes the sun rise and set, that is more than a little ego blow. So I read aloud a page that I typed up weeks ago post-DD#2 that repeated the worst of his emails and my fears about them.

What did our MC do? He extended the session for another 30 minutes (of course we paid) but he could just see that we were getting to some core issues that needed to be discussed.

(Now, our first MC was a CLASSIC rug-sweeper, I've said this before--I called him after DD#2 to tell him HEY, MY HUSBAND WAS CHEATING ON ME THE WHOLE TIME WE WERE IN MC!! [insert choice insulting name here that I muttered under my breath.] And he said? "How does that make you feel?" At least I can laugh about it now...:rofl


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## jinba (Apr 26, 2012)

All good points here - but on the flip side, sometimes we stay against our better judgement and things do improve. But it takes time and effort on the part of both parties. 

I've stuck it out and I think we're finally on the right track. Will I ever totally trust him again? No. Will I ever love him like I did before the A? No. Will I ever stop being suspicious on occasion? No. But enough time has passed that it doesn't eat at me everyday. I'm fully functional again and have grown from the experience.

Vegemite - you need to learn to accept what's happened to you, because you can't change it. The only thing you can change is your attitude - and if you can't mentally and emotionally deal with your wife or the situation she's put you both in and work toward a happier life, you need to leave and find the happiness you deserve.

Just sounds to me like you're feeling dead inside - and that's not "OK".


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> (Now, our first MC was a CLASSIC rug-sweeper, I've said this before--I called him after DD#2 to tell him HEY, MY HUSBAND WAS CHEATING ON ME THE WHOLE TIME WE WERE IN MC!! [insert choice insulting name here that I muttered under my breath.] And he said? "How does that make you feel?" At least I can laugh about it now...:rofl


It is very difficult to find a good MC, if one lives in a small town and traveling to the MC may not be an option due to work schedules. 

I am glad you found a good one, yours sounds excellent.

Not one of the three counselors I visited for MC did any of the things your last counselor did. All did exactly what your first counselor did. They rug swept the affair.

One a hole counselor actually took a phone call from his daughter right after asking an important question. I got up and left after that. He totally broke everyone's train of thought and momentum.

They were all a huge waste of money and $250 per hour.

IMO, no counselor is better than a poorly trained one.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

You know both you and her are rug sweeping, right?










It's sad, you're DDay is close to mine, mine was also in June 2010. It looks like your MC did more harm than good. The moment your so-called MC started to focus on other things besides the infidelity is the time you should have fired his sorry butt. 

And your WW is still unremorseful. Here's that table again.










At least you admit that you're in limbo and not in R. You realize you're just killing time until her next affair, right? You're living in fear, fear of disrupting your family. Well, you're WW already did that with her cheating. My fWW have been together for 25 years, married for 22. If my fWW didn't do the heavy lifting, I would divorce her no doubt it, and she knows it. I don't give a damn how difficult D would be. I've been through it before. I know I'll survive. 

Your WW KNOWS that you won't divorce her because she knows you're scared to. That's why she's not remorseful. She knows she has you on a leash. The question is, what is it going to take for you to divorce her? Another affair?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

If you've been in limbo for 2 years & she's cheatead 3 times already & you will not forgive her, just get a divorce.


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## Vegemite (Apr 12, 2012)

LoveMouse said:


> It sounds to me like she'll never stop, she loves herself WAY TOO MUCH!!
> I did the MC thing for 36 weeks w/ 2 different MC's.....both did the samething, ignor the affair til she was ready to talk about it, the problem was she wasn't sorry, she was still looking for the next man the whole time we were in MC!!!  You have to let go, move on. Check out <menwhoareabused/com> for more info on the NPD, gaslighting, 1/2 truths ETC. Good luck and remember...it could be worse, you could have never found out, now you have a chance at a real life, w/ real people who love U!!
> Mouse


Thanks Mouse. MC cost an absolute fortune, with time out of my business & the cost of the sessions. And while he got us communicating better, to ignore the infidelity just gave her more justification in her mind. Made things worse.


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## Vegemite (Apr 12, 2012)

survivorwife said:


> CW appears to be a narcissist, as does my CH, so her behavior, either good or bad, serves her and her only. Keep that in mind. She "dodged a bullet" by having an A and "getting away with it" (staying married).
> 
> The first round with my CH happened 10 years ago, and I forgave him because I wanted to keep the family together, I felt that he did love me deep inside, he showed remorse. It was all self-serving for him as he lost nothing in the process. My feelings of anger didn't count because he is narcissist. I was expected to forgive and forget; which I did for the sake of the children.
> 
> ...


Survivorwife, thankyou. I guess that's the sort of inspiration I'm looking for. My sons turn 15 & 7 this week. They are more important than anything else. That's probably the main reason it's a hard decision to make.


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## Vegemite (Apr 12, 2012)

2xloser, you are right. I can't argue with any of what you say, despite it being a bitter pill to swallow.

iheartlife, Thanks. I just wouldn't consider MC again. Like a true narc., she is a good liar and as you know, they'll say whatever it takes to stay in the house.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Considering that she is a serial cheater, it would be prudent to have DNA tests done on your children.


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## Vegemite (Apr 12, 2012)

jinba said:


> .
> 
> Just sounds to me like you're feeling dead inside - and that's not "OK".


Thanks jinba. I feel mentally exhausted. I've had three attempts at separation with her, mostly in the first year after D-day. She fights back so hard. It's not good for the kids. I know that sounds gutless. But she is not the type to walk away shamed with her tail between her legs.

In the last year, I have come to grips with what's happened a lot better. But deep inside, it's still there. Some days it consumes me.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> She fights back so hard.


How? It looks like you are coerced back into the relationship.Is she using kids as pawns?


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## Vegemite (Apr 12, 2012)

Sara8, You'd expect your CS to rug sweep. But when the MC does it, I think its malpractice. Can you imagine going to your doctor with a maligmant skin cancer. His reponse: I'll just put a bandage on that, because it's too hard to deal with. Now, lets talk about how this happened and how to prevent it happening again. It's just one aspect psychologists have totally got wrong.

Lordmayhem, Thanks for the table. I've seen it before, but it's a good wakeup call. Thanks for the Frank advice.

Jellybeans, Stay tuned.


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## Vegemite (Apr 12, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> How? It looks like you are coerced back into the relationship.Is she using kids as pawns?


Accurate! We haven't fought in a long time. Back then when I pushed for D. she would get verbally aggressive. I didn't like the kids being exposed to that. And yes, she would use the "it will be so hard on the kids" routine, straight out of the narc's playbook.

Look, I know I need to man up and grow a pair, but I find it tough.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

I am sorry but she has continuously played you for a giant fool and put your health at risk for STD's as well. I hope you both have been tested.

She has carried on affairs at least with 3 different men that you are aware of. She is a serial cheater by definition. If the roles were reversed do you honestly believe she would have put up with such constant disrespect and humiliation from you? Do you feel lucky, special and proud that she is your wife?

I would strongly suggest:
1. STD Testing
2. Paternity Testing
3. Contacting a lawyer just to understand your options.
4. Ask yourself what kind of a role model your are for your children to let their mother humiliate and betray you time and again.

She has absolutely no respect for you whatsoever. If you do not respect yourself then who will? You constantly are being emotionally abused. It is time for you to wake out of your fog. Enough is enough!


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Vegemite, I don't know how old your kids are but don't you think they can sense the lack of love in your household?

Divorce her already. Better to have two happy homes than one crappy one.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey Veg---at least make her sign a POST--NUP, with a DURESS, clause

It is sad you have to live like roommates, but if that is what you want, so be it

You seem to fully understand---that nothing can/will ever be the same, and there are probably many moments when you really can't even tolerate the sight of her

I guess based on what you are telling us, you are NOT playing parole officer, but that she does know, if she ever strays again EA/PA---she is gone----By the way, I do not understand where she gets the choice in the decision about SEP/D----If you want it to happen, it happens----she may fight it, but she cannot prevent it, if that is what you want for your future-----she needs to know this, hopefully it will help her control her urges to be with other men.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Vegemite said:


> Look, I know I need to man up and grow a pair, but I find it tough.


Ever heard of the boiling frog syndrome?

Boiling frog - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The reason you find it tough is because you've become used to living in limbo these past 2 years. You've begun to accept it, grow accustomed to it, just like a frog doesn't realize it's in boiling water and dies. The longer you stay in limbo, the more abuse you will accept.


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## Vegemite (Apr 12, 2012)

bryanp said:


> I would strongly suggest:
> 1. STD Testing
> 2. Paternity Testing
> 3. Contacting a lawyer just to understand your options.
> ...


Thanks Bryan. Yes both been tested for STDs. All okay, but the the unsafe sex,oral sex makes me sick thinking about it.

I have no doubt my kids are mine.

I think legal advice is my next step.

Your last question is a hard one. I believe it's still honourable to be here with them.


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## Vegemite (Apr 12, 2012)

Count,JNJ.,Lordmayhem, Thanks for the input.

Yes i'm well familiar with the boiling frog syndrome. One bit of advice I recieved in the early post D-days nearly 2 years ago was you don't have to rush your decision. I think now that was the wrong thing to do. I should have forced it. But I'll get there.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

I would like to ask you a question. You have mentioned that you have been emotionally abused by your wife and shown disrespect by her for many years. Do you think that it is possible that she engaged in this sexual affair because she knew even if you found out that you would forgive her and there would be no consequences to her actions anyway and therefore she had nothing to lose? Do you think if you had made it very clear to her that any cheating by her would result in an immediate divorce she still would have engaged in the affair? I wish you luck.


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## Ben Connedfussed (May 4, 2012)

I have read your story. It is heart wrenching. I know limbo can be 'living hell on Earth' and most likely will cause health issues. We hear your story and am sure all feel your pain and anguish. If you are going to live again, do something for yourself. Get yourself healthy again. As one person posted here... You sound as though you have died inside! 

I pray for you, that you regain strength. I hope life becomes easier for you in the face of what you have experienced. With the repeated offenses your spouse has committed, I myself would not be able to see any hope of a 'true reconciliation' but could only see 'the next time it happens...wavering in the air. 

These issues are the killers of hope, trust, and a promise of happiness. You do deserve to be loved by someone who really loves you. You can find that, I hope. Trusting again will be hard, however it is not impossible. And living to love again is possible. 

My greatest wish for you is that you will do something for yourself and get help in the correct way you so need, deserve and should have! Good luck. None of this is your fault, and you deserve a person who shall love you with respect and honesty!


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## Vegemite (Apr 12, 2012)

bryanp said:


> . Do you think that it is possible that she engaged in this sexual affair because she knew even if you found out that you would forgive her and there would be no consequences to her actions anyway and therefore she had nothing to lose? .


Good question. She didn't expect me to fight and she didn't expect me to kick her out of the house when I first found out.

When I finally forgave her, I asked her one day: Each time you had sex with him, and all the time throughout the 3 month affair, surely you must have thought to yourself " If I get found out, my marriage is surely over" ?
She gave a vague "Yes". I've learnt a lot more about her body language now. When I think back, you would have been thinking " just get over it, will you".


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## Vegemite (Apr 12, 2012)

Ben Connedfussed said:


> Get yourself healthy again. As one person posted here... You sound as though you have died inside!
> 
> My greatest wish for you is that you will do something for yourself and get help in the correct way you so need, deserve and should have! Good luck. None of this is your fault, and you deserve a person who shall love you with respect and honesty!


Thanks Ben, they're really kind words. I've done a lot of thinking this weekend. One day at a time.


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