# Love languages!



## TXSDR (6 mo ago)

Serious question here for men whose love language is "acts of service" and "quality time" and "gifts." He's not told me this, I've just come to realize. He's not very affectionate, if at all. He never gives words of affirmation.

He loves me giving him back rubs and foot rubs. But he never gives them to me. I love them, too - but really hate to ask for them because I figured he'd give them to me if he wanted to. I had to ask for the only single back rub he ever gave me and it was months ago. He offered me a foot rub about a month ago and it was great, but very quick and he even said he was sorry it was so quick. I have rubbed his feet for a good hour before. CRAZY, I know. So - I guess anyone can enjoy those things, but it may not equal love to him. It may just be the pleasure of the physical touch.

My love languages are physical touch, quality time, words of affirmation and acts of service. Gifts are great, and I appreciate them, but I'm not that person.

MY QUESTION is for those whose love languages are those of his - does that mean those are the ways he feels love?

He doesn't seem to care for me being mushy and super affectionate. He does love it when I cook. And he obviously likes our time together or else he would not spend so much time w/ me.

I'm starting to think maybe that me being so mushy and verbal is not what he needs.

I am very verbal and affectionate - so how am I supposed to withhold these things in order to not overload him????

I posted the other day about him finally verbalizing an "I love you." He hasn't said it first since. We've only said it a few times since. The other night before bed (on the phone, because he's out of state working), I told him I love you...and he said "goodnight." It was VERY hurtful.

I talked to him about it and asked him to please explain WHAT is going on here. He said, "I told you already that I love you. I don't need to tell you everyday." Well, only said it that one day and only responded to mine twice since then.

I get it!!!!!!!!!!! Actions speak louder than words. And I show him. Again, he shows me with quality time, gifts and acts of service. It sadly….I just can’t “feel” it without some verbalizing at least every now and then. I mean…zero affirmations from him. I am not posting this due to the lack of I love you from him. I’m posting trying to figure out if I’m showing my love to him in a way he can’t absorb it.

Again, my post is about the love languages and what a person who has his love languages desires. Do you feel love by the same way you give it?? I hope my question and post makes sense.


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## Bulfrog1987 (Oct 8, 2021)

You can’t love someone in YOUR love language and that’s the sacrifice. Unless your languages match up but that seems to be a rarity. You say you have verbalized to him, but it sounds like you’re unsure about what you think his language is?

Don’t play the guessing game and don’t leave him guessing what your needs are is the easiest way to approach your issue. Guys just need us to say what it is. We ladies tend to make it more difficult and overthink.


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## TXSDR (6 mo ago)

Bulfrog1987 said:


> You can’t love someone in YOUR love language and that’s the sacrifice. Unless your languages match up but that seems to be a rarity. You say you have verbalized to him, but it sounds like you’re unsure about what you think his language is?
> 
> Don’t play the guessing game don’t leave him guessing what your needs are is the easiest way to approach your issue. Guys just need us to say what it is. We ladies tend to make it more difficult and overthink.


I actually did ask him months back what his love language was and he didn't know what I meant. lol - I explained to him and he just blew me off w/ no explantion. He never asked what mine was - as far as how I feel love. I guess I'll have to ask him again - he just doesn't seem to care about these types of discussions.

He is genuinally extremely simple - possible moreso that I even realize. 

But yet SO difficult. I give it my all and, honestly, it seems like my all is too much.

I agree with George Strait - "Too much of a good thing...is a good thing." -George Strait

Some people, maybe not so much.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@TXSDR,

Your love languages are physical touch, quality time, words of affirmation and acts of service.

His love languages are acts of service, quality time, and gifts.

What that means is that you feel loved when you are touched (hugs, kisses, cuddles, spooning, sex), when someone spends time with you and focuses on you, when someone uses words to speak their affection out loud, and when someone does kind and thoughtful things for you. HE feels loved when someone does kind and thoughtful things for him, when someone spends time with him and focuses on him, and when someone gets or makes or gives little thoughtful gifts. 

If you love him, then the way to love him is for you to speak to him in his love language. That means when you cook for him you are doing something kind and thoughtful (an act of service) and he feels valued and loved. When you spend an hour rubbing his feet, you are spending time focusing on him giving him attention (quality time). When rub his back, it's not the "touching" so much as you are giving a thoughtful gift because his back hurts. See how all those things work together to demonstrate to him that you love him and he feels valuable and loved because of how you act. 

By contrast, if he loved you, then the way to love you would be for him to speak YOUR love language. That means he would touch you--hold hands, or cuddle on the couch (physical touch). He would talk to your about your day with the TV off and his phone put away...or he would do things with you like take walks or go on an adventure (quality time). He may not be good at words of affirmation, so he'd read you love poems...or write you a note (words of affirmation). And he'd do things to take care of you like put gas in your car or do a chore for you (acts of service). 

Right now, part of the reason you feel off kilter is because you are speaking to him in his love language, even though it's not your love language...but he is not speaking to you in YOUR love language because it's not his love language. For this love language thing to work, both parties have to NOT do what is "their love language" and do what is their partner's love language. 

Now you can not "make" him do what he can't (or won't) do. He has to choose to want to do that voluntarily. But what you can do is look for the ways he is trying to express love toward you. To you--you want to hear "I love you" on a steady basis because the words affirm the love. To him--he told you that he loves you, and that is how he feels until he tells you differently. Honestly, that is a CLASSIC Thinker/Feeler clash. Thinkers tend to use impersonal, logic-based criteria, while feelers consider tastes and feelings in making decisions. So if he leans toward ration and thoughts...and you lean toward emotions and feelings you'd get this exact dilemma! It's neither "good" nor "bad"--he just doesn't gush and emote all over the place, and you don't get all logical and analytical about every little thing. 

Soooo...I'd recommend looking at the relationship and man as a whole. Is he dependable? Is he committed? Does he act like he is kind, thoughtful, and compassionate toward you? Are you a priority? Even if you two have differences in your love languages and your personality types, that doesn't mean you can't see that the way he is toward you is acting as if you are significant to him. If you can tell by his actions that you are significant, that's love. It's not a mushy feeling--it's an action. And sometimes actions are not glamorous and romantical, but they are kind and caring...so look for that. His style of loving someone may be more like "taking care of them" than "feeling swirly emotions". So do take the time to look for the ways he does love you and recognize them as love.

However, it is also reasonable for you to request what you need. I say request because you can't "make" him...but you can speak up for yourself and just say, "I could really use so encouragement because I feel ____ from work. Would you tell me 3 things you love about me?" The implication is that he is allowed to say "no" but if he does say "no then he counters with what he WOULD be willing to do. For example, if he is a Thinker, asking for emotional words might be really hard for him, so he might say, "I would love to tell you 3 things I love about you, but it seems like a little too broad of a topic. I don't quite get what you're needing. So can I ask a few questions so I can understand first?"


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

P.S. My Beloved Hubby is also a male human being--former Army SSgt. so he's not entirely a smushy guy either. I mean...he's a guy so he has a tough exterior right? (And I have the privilege of seeing his softer side.) He would never "get" what I wanted if I said "Tell me words of affirmation." WUT? LOL 

Now I am blessed because he does know about love languages and cares to discuss it with me, but honestly, like many male humans, he's pretty simple. He wants to love me in a way that means "I love you" to me...he wants to make me happy...so the easiest and quickest way to get there is if I need something, to speak up and request it. "Hey could you give me a hug?" "OMG what a day--I need a beer and 20 minutes of silence!" "Would you mind making that ___ recipe? It is SO good and I'm in the mood for it!" "UGH I'm struggling today. I know you care and I can tell, but my head is yelling at me. Please just turn on our song and dance with me a minute, will ya?" 

See?


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

He might be more agreeable to taking the test...

The Love Language Quiz 

Best


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

TXSDR said:


> I talked to him about it and asked him to please explain WHAT is going on here. He said, "*I told you already that I love you. I don't need to tell you everyday.*" Well, only said it that one day and only responded to mine twice since then.


A quick comment about this ^^^.
Be careful here. With an attitude like this, his expression of love to you (at least verbally) could become a manipulation tool. Something he doles out to make you forget about the other thing he's doing.

About love languages, my wife and I don't align. I am touch, she is words of affirmation.

As others have said, the important thing is for you and him to communicate in the language your partner understands. My wife had to learn it was important to hold my hand, for example. While I had to learn to acknowledge her efforts and tell her how wonderful she is. "I don't need to tell you every day" would have ended up with me being single!

If he can't make you feel loved in a way you need to feel it then work hard to educate & train him or cut bait. You'll be happy you did (either of those) 20 years from now.


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## TXSDR (6 mo ago)

Affaircare said:


> @TXSDR,
> 
> Your love languages are physical touch, quality time, words of affirmation and acts of service.
> 
> ...


I’m learning. I am definitely starting to put the pieces together. 

Years ago, when he looked me and I want tin the same page, I met him and his son for lunch. I had been to a store here and asked if he needed anything and he asked if I could grab his son some socks and he’d give me the money. (He makes a great living and always was buying his son stuff. It just happened ti be that I was at this particular store and he alllowed me to grab him some socks to save him a trip. Otherwise he used to never let me do anything for him.). Sooooo, I met them for lunch and brunch the socks and when he tried to give me some money, I kindly rejected. 

Still, to this day, he brings that up and hie nice he thought that was of me. So I am really now starting to grasp things looking back on that, and a few other things, as well as current stuff. 

Ine thing though…he doesn’t like me paying for anything. He has bought me soooooo many meals and trips to the movies through the years. I see now…it was the quality time. He brought me, and sent me, flowers so many times through the years. Gifts. 
He came to my house and cooked so many times through the years. Quality time and acts of service. 

I used to pick him up from the airport a lot (I still do). He appreciated that and we would always go to eat lunch or dinner depending on the time of the day after I picked him up. Sometimes he’d insist on putting gas in my truck.

I’m looking back and seeing these for what they were. His way of loving me. Even though I didn’t live him in that way. I didn’t have any intimate feelings for him. Believe me, I’m kicking myself now.
But he truly was showing me in the way he knew how. And he still is. And I’ve not been picking up on it b until today. 

He told me the other night, ‘I don’t understand what I’m not doing!’ And today that really makes sense. “DOING”

I’ll keep up the back rubs and foot rubs. I’ll keep up the cooking. We are both big cooks. He doesn't like “stuff” so gifts aren’t a big go-to. He likes clothes, so I can do that. We spend 24/7 together when he’s home and not out of state at work. He’s a neat freak and keeps an immaculate home, so I keep it that way when I’m there. We are definitely two interesting, yet simple, people. 

This has been a big eye opener to me. 

I just hope I can communicate to him my needs in a way that doesn’t aggravate him. He tends to get flustered when I’m whining about my insecurities. Which sadly, he hailed caused some of them (prior posts).

Thank you!!!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I have weaknesses in expressing my love through acts of service and words of affirmation, but touch is my primary language. We didn't have an issue with touch as we were in each other's arms all the time but definitely the others.

It wasn't appreciated though, I was always compared to other men, her orbiters her friends bfs, her tiktok couples etc. She wanted all five love languages at once. In the end I stopped trying and told her to make up her mind. 🙄


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## TXSDR (6 mo ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> A quick comment about this ^^^.
> Be careful here. With an attitude like this, his expression of love to you (at least verbally) could become a manipulation tool. *Something he doles out to make you forget about the other thing he's doing. *
> 
> If he can't make you feel loved in a way you need to feel it then work hard to educate & train him or cut bait. You'll be happy you did (either of those) 20 years from now.


Like if he’s up to no good and tells me he loves me to smooth things over?


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## TXSDR (6 mo ago)

RandomDude said:


> I have weaknesses in expressing my love through acts of service and words of affirmation, but touch is my primary language. We didn't have an issue with touch as we were in each other's arms all the time but definitely the others.
> 
> *It wasn't appreciated though, I was always compared to other men, her orbiters her friends bfs, her tiktok couples etc. *She wanted all five love languages at once. In the end I stopped trying and told her to make up her mind. 🙄


That’s not cool.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

TXSDR said:


> Like if he’s up to no good and tells me he loves me to smooth things over?


Yea, like that.
I'm not saying he's that type, but when I read those words I saw a red flag.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Yea, like that.
> I'm not saying he's that type, but when I read those words I saw a red flag.


And besides... what's wrong with saying it every day if that's what you need to feel loved? I guess it just depends on how much his love is about you, vs what he's comfortable with.

Sorry, I don't mean to be a pessimist and I'm usually not. I'm just not loving this situation for you.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

TXSDR said:


> That’s not cool.


And when I did bring up the acts of service I gave her, "that's just my expectation" 

It takes effort to give of love languages that don't come naturally, and when the effort isn't appreciated... resentment.

At the same, if it just isn't enough what he's giving you, it just won't be enough it's been 9 years for you guys.


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## TXSDR (6 mo ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> And besides... what's wrong with saying it every day if that's what you need to feel loved? I guess it just depends on how much his love is about you, vs what he's comfortable with.
> 
> Sorry, I don't mean to be a pessimist and I'm usually not. I'm just not loving this situation for you.


Thanks. Yes, it’s VERY hard. He has some extremely strange ways that I never dreamed would be an issue. I am very loving and doting to him. I always feel like I’m trying to earn his love.
He told me a while back that he only recalls his dad telling him he loves him one time. As for his mom, I’m not sure. I’ll see her tonight, but would never ask her that unless the topic arises. She and I do get to talking sometimes and she’s told me some things that helped me make sense of other issues. But he doesn’t know that…and I certainly didn’t ask her for the info. It was just in conversation.


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## TXSDR (6 mo ago)

RandomDude said:


> And when I did bring up the acts of service I gave her, "that's just my expectation"
> 
> It takes effort to give of love languages that don't come naturally, and when the effort isn't appreciated... resentment.
> 
> At the same, if it just isn't enough what he's giving you, it just won't be enough it's been 9 years for you guys.


8.5 years I only saw him as a friend. I’m sure seeing that he wanted more, and had feelings, it’s more like 9 years to him now….where the actual intimate relationship is at the 7 month mark…and 7 months is where I see it be if that makes sense. It’s too early for all of this bull malarkey.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

TXSDR said:


> I always feel like I’m trying to earn his love.


This I would consider a problem. You should not feel like that in a loving relationship. That can very easily evolve into a bad relationship once he realizes the control he has. Again, not saying he is like this, but you are dropping defenses and exposing your tender nature so there is a risk.

I understand that you might need to see him expressing love the best way he can, but there is a reasonable limit to you having to fit every situation into the 'love bucket'. At some point, he will need to show you in a way you understand and feel confident about. _Not_ doing that is a surefire way to lifelong unhappiness.

And yes... I agree. It's way too early to be struggling like this. You should have stars in your eyes and feel like rainbows and unicorns every day.

Training him on what you need...or dump him and move on.


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## TXSDR (6 mo ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> This I would consider a problem. You should not feel like that in a loving relationship. That can very easily evolve into a bad relationship once he realizes the control he has. Again, not saying he is like this, but you are dropping defenses and exposing your tender nature so there is a risk.
> 
> I understand that you might need to see him expressing love the best way he can, but there is a reasonable limit to you having to fit every situation into the 'love bucket'. At some point, he will need to show you in a way you understand and feel confident about. _Not_ doing that is a surefire way to lifelong unhappiness.
> 
> ...


I agree with an ll of that.

And what I mean by earning his love is…feeling it. So maybe I’ve not delay it because I wasn’t picking up in how he shows it (in his eyes). 
When he told me he loves me he said, “I love you. still.” He didn’t elaborate, but I assume he mean he’s lived me all along. Later in the night he told me 6 years. But he may have just been being silly. He has been drinking.

I feel like I’m always needing more and until I am able to feel loved…or feel “done”…I don’t think I’m going to feel at ease completely. 
When we are together, I generally feel great. When he’s working (away), I’m anxious a lot. If I don’t hear from him regularly thought the work day, I get uneasy. Today is one of those days. Talked to him for an hour this morning when he got up and was heading to his job, but only two 1 word replies to me since. Because I don’t feel his love, this causes me anxiety. 

I heed to stay busy!!!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

TXSDR said:


> 8.5 years I only saw him as a friend. I’m sure seeing that he wanted more, and had feelings, it’s more like 9 years to him now….where the actual intimate relationship is at the 7 month mark…and 7 months is where I see it be if that makes sense. It’s too early for all of this bull malarkey.


Definitely is too early, at least the first year with ex was bliss


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## TXSDR (6 mo ago)

RandomDude said:


> Definitely is too early, at least the first year with ex was bliss


Yes yes. This sucks.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Do you know the best way for a man to understand what a woman wants?

It involves beating us over the head with a frying pan while screaming as loud as you can exactly what it is you want.

Anything else…. You will be just wasting time.

Not only do we have thick heads … we are not mind readers.


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## TXSDR (6 mo ago)

Mr.Married said:


> Do you know the best way for a man to understand what a woman wants?
> 
> It involves beating us over the head with a frying pan while screaming as loud as you can exactly what it is you want.
> 
> ...


LOL. I get that, but I just assumed people in their late 40s, and who have been in relationships in the past, would just have the common sense to know the most common things the other sex wants. 

He knew I wanted to hear I love you…because he told me earlier in the night that he c was going to be telling me those 3 little words that I’ve been waiting to hear. WHO DOES THAT? Lol 

I mean, I’m not complaining…but I’ve never had anyone alert me that’s they would be telling me yet love me later in the day. 😂

He knew it meant a lot to me, yet he withheld it for 7 months. L He knows it means a lot to me now…and he still withholds it. To me it’s torture.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

What worked for all the years you were just friends doesn’t necessarily work now that you’re in a relationship. The two of you need to figure out what you can compromise on, and don’t resent doing, or else this won’t last. So far you’re much too giving and over time you’ll likely get tired of that if you feel it isn’t at least somewhat reciprocated in the way you want it to be.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

TXSDR said:


> Serious question here for men whose love language is "acts of service" and "quality time" and "gifts." *He's not told me this, I've just come to realize. He's not very affectionate, if at all. He never gives words of affirmation.
> 
> He loves me giving him back rubs and foot rubs. But he never gives them to me*. I love them, too - but really hate to ask for them because* I figured he'd give them to me if he wanted to.* *I had to ask for the only single back rub he ever gave me and it was months ago. *
> 
> ...


Yes, your questions and post makes sense.

Let me share something that I had to learn the hard way in trying to save my sex starved marriage. My wife and I both read Chapman's 5 LL. My primary LL is touch, my secondary is works of affirmation. My wife's primary is quality time, and her secondary LL is acts of service.

So my story, my wife and I felt that were weren't showing each other affection any more, when we were constantly telling each other, every day that we loved our partner.

If I wanted to show my wife how much I loved her, I would hug her, hold her hand, touch her shoulder, etc. She would pull away from me and tell me to stop pawing at her body just to get in her pants. I felt the same as if she had slapped me in the face. She had totally rejected my act of love. Other times when I wanted to express my love for her, I would praise her and tell her how proud I was of her accomplishments. She would them tell me to stop "buttering her up" just to get in her pants. Again, I felt like she slapped me in the face rejecting my expression of love.

While that was happening, my wife would make sure as an act of service that she prepared a hot home-cooked meal for dinner, as that is what she saw her mother do to show her husband (my wife's father) she loved him and was a good wife. My wife also made sure that we ate that meal at the kitchen table very night. Early in our marriage, I tried to be a good provider and build my career by working late at the office. Sometimes, I forgot to call and tell her I would be home late.

When I arrived late the meal was either over-cooked or burnt. To her that felt like I had slapped her in the face by rejecting her expression of love. We sat down at the kitchen table, and she would growl at me and tell me I was thoughtless. Since words of affirmation are my love language, I would take the criticism as her belittling me and the love between us. I would wolf down my mean, leave the table and go watch TV as quickly as possible. That was a total rejection from her perspective of quality time and in her view a statement of my not loving her.

So, while each of use was telling the other that we loved them, we were each unable to see or understand that and in fact were viewing statements of love in a different love language as reasons for feeling rejected.

Your primary questions are: *Do you feel love by the same way you give it?? ....does that mean those are the ways he feels love? *I hope my real life example shows you that the answer is often YES. 

So how did we (my wife and I) get past that? I finally understood what Chapman was saying. I had to translate her statements of love into something that I could understand and ignore that she didn't know or want to learn my love language. I also had to start showing her my love in her love languages. I did show her love in her love languages and she started to feel loved and cherished. 

It took a long time for her to try to sometimes express her love for me in my love languages. One of the hard lessons, I had to learn was that no where in Chapman's book does he indicate that sex is a "love language or part of any of the 5 love languages. There are other books on "skin hunger" and the need for touch. The laying on of hands is common to help people heal in many cultures. Sue Johnson has a great book called Hold Me Tight on just how important touch is. 

To get the "touch" I needed, I went and had therapeutic massage sessions each week. This made me less desperate to be touched and allowed my wife to not be overwhelmed by my need for touch.

I also learned that I can not change my wife, only she can change herself and then only if she wants to change. I can ask her to change, I can provide positive feedback when she does things differently, but I can't force her to change how I want. 

Another concept, that I had to learn was that I could not engage in "covert contracts." Dr. Glover likes to explain in his book for men that covert contracts are quite common. His example is a husband who wants sex. The H tells himself, that if he does the dishes after dinner, his wife will be so overjoyed that she will have sex with him. He does the dishes, and expects she will be so greatful she will wisk him off to bed. Instead, she thanks him and says to herself, how nice it was that he finally stepped up to help out with some of the chores. Since she had no idea that her H did the dishers with an ulterior motive, she did nothing out of the ordinary. At this point the Nice Guy husband will typically double down on his covert contract. He will do the dishes, vacuum, do the laundry, etc. knowing that she will have to notice now what he is doing and give him the sex he secretly wants. 

She does notice, but again has no idea what brought this change about, but feels that after all those years of her slaving over all the housework it is finally time that he took the lead for a while. She just sits back and enjoys it. The guy is beside himself and feels his wife no longer loves him and begins to sulk and generally become a pain, she doesn't want to be around. Eventually he stops doing things and the wife complains that he needs to do his fair share of cores. The marriage starts to go down hill quickly at that point.

Your back rubs and foot rubs were covert contracts that you initiated with your H, but you never told him what the deal was, now did you? Convert contracts, don't work.

You might want to along with doing some serious introspection on stopping covert contracts, on learning how to show your H love in his love languages, and how to satisfy some of your love language needs without him; think about if you are co-dependent on your H's approval to feel loved. Glover advises Nice Guy men to "Get a Life" so as to become less codependent. He tells men that they need to do things, physical things, that give them pride in their accomplishments and a feeling of independence and fulfillment. Their accomplishments also is a signal to their spouse that they have changed and are becoming a different person who needs to be treated differently. He also says that being clingy and codependent is by its very nature not sexy to your partner. Even though those concepts are directed toward men, they can also be good advice to women.

Another tough lesson I had to learn was how to give "unconditional love" as a way of not doing covert contracts. If I wanted to give my wife a back rub, I had to ask myself if I wanted to give her a back rup, because I wanted something in return, or if I wanted to give her a back rub, because that is what I wanted, what would feel good for me, and expected nothing but to enjoy touching her. Did I give my wife flowers, because I wanted to make her happy, or because I wanted something in return.

Later in working with the marriage counselor and sex therapist who saved our sex starved marriage, the ST gave us Sensate Focus exercises. With these exercises, we learned how to separate sensual feelings from sexual feelings. We also learned that sessions could be separated into the one being touched, from the one touching and that pleasure could be found in each. My wife learned that touching her husband could be a pleasant experience for her. You might want to read about Sensate Focus exercise in your journey of understanding and gaining the touch you so desparately seem to want.. 

Sensate Focus Exercise description

Good luck to you. You certainly have asked the right questions. I hope the examples from my life experience provided you with a little context to your questions and the answers. Again, I think you understand things on a basic level. I hope my suggestions help both you and your H learn more about what Chapman's book is about and how you can grow your love and enjoyment of each other.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

TXSDR said:


> LOL. I get that, but I just assumed people in their late 40s, and who have been in relationships in the past, would just have the common sense to know the most common things the other sex wants.
> 
> He knew I wanted to hear I love you…because he told me earlier in the night that he c was going to be telling me those 3 little words that I’ve been waiting to hear. WHO DOES THAT? Lol
> 
> ...


Or he's just waiting for the right magical moment.  
I was the same way with kisses, you know, it's just more romantic this way.

Fk I was the same way with sex and all my exs could never wait. Starting a fight about needing more sex minutes before I was actually going to initiate like for fks sake. Sorry... memories 😑

Bloody hell sometimes I wonder what's the point of a romantic side too if it's TORTURE to keep some things in suspense.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

TXSDR said:


> _*LOL. I get that, but I just assumed people in their late 40s, and who have been in relationships in the past, would just have the common sense to know the most common things the other sex wants.*_


You'd be amazed at what men even in their 50's still don't know.

PS - for what it's worth, I'd never rub someone's feet (yuck) and allow them to be so damned lazy and selfish that they couldn't even do the same for me. Sadly, you've set a precedent whereby he can be selfish while *you* do all the giving and *he* does all the taking. That crap gets real old, doesn't it? Obviously it does or you wouldn't be posting. LOL.

Time for a come to Jesus talk.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

This is the guy who told OP he's not attracted to her and she's still staying in the relationship.. .


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

TXSDR said:


> ... He told me the other night, ‘I don’t understand what I’m not doing!’ And today that really makes sense. “DOING”


@TXSDR the positive way of stating what he said is that he IS doing what he thinks "love" is...so the fact that you're not satisfied or it's not enough is confusing to him. In his head, he is DOING the things that mean love, and yet you want something else, and he doesn't know what. In a weird way, that's a good thing because by his actions he is trying to ACT in a loving way! 



TXSDR said:


> ... I just hope I can communicate to him my needs in a way that doesn’t aggravate him. He tends to get flustered when I’m whining about my insecurities. Which sadly, *he (has?) caused some of them* (prior posts).


Mmmmm...see the part up there that I underlined? Whining about your insecurities? That is not HIS to fix. It's not his job to "make" you feel loved or to "make" you feel secure! Those are emotions, and you choose how you feel. In other words, even if he was a perfect boyfriend, you could still have issues that you struggle with from your past, and those issues and those struggles are YOURS to deal with and cope with, not his. So if you are insecure, and you know that is one of your personal character flaws, then take personal responsibility for it and see what you can do to tackle your own insecurities. BTW, I am insecure too so I'm not just preaching to ya! I recommend something like the Self-Esteem Workbook on Amazon for example. Actually do the work to see yourself as valuable, precious, and worthy of loving kindness. 

See the part up there that I bolded? "...he has caused some of them"? I did look back on your past posts. You and your BF are not kids (I'm not either--I'm 60yo) and with that age come some issues. In addition, your BF has been diagnosed diabetic and has some stiffness issues. You chose to take those issues as lack of attraction to you, and then when you asked him, he said, "Well...I'm not sure" and then ultimately said he wasn't. Here's the thing. I'd be willing to bet you $1000 that his lack of stiffness and lack of initiation etc. has NOTHING to do with you! Know why I say that? Because you are pretty, smart, funny, interesting, intelligent, fun to be with, and have a sense of humor! You are kind and thoughtful and gentle and gracious. You are a GREAT lady, and he looks at you and thinks, "Wow what an awesome person!" But at our age, we aren't supermodels like we used to be (haha!). I'm fairly sure I''m shorter than my Beloved Hubby's "type"(and possibly more curvy), and I'll bet you're the same. But you know what I truly believe (because he's told me)? He loves the body I have because I'm wrapped in it! Your BF told you the exact same thing--he loves the YOU that you are, because you are inside that body, not because that body is a supermodel. He looks at you and sees a star here on earth...

My point here is that he didn't cause your insecurities. He may not have handled his own aging and diabetes in the wisest way--and when the flagpole more closely resembles a noodle, it's hard not to take it personally...but IT'S *NOT *PERSONAL! Your insecurities are on you. His health is on him, and if he'd like to continue making love, it would be smart to get checked out, take diabetes meds if he needs to, change his diet, exercise, etc. But that's on him. Your job is to work on learning and truly believing that you are a valuable, worthy, lovable person.



TXSDR said:


> ... Thanks. Yes, it’s VERY hard. He has some extremely strange ways that I never dreamed would be an issue. I am very loving and doting to him.  I always feel like I’m trying to earn his love.


See that sentence I underlined? "I always feel like I'm trying to earn his love"? When you were younger, did you have love withheld from you? Did your parents have high expectations or try to manipulate you to do something "or they wouldn't love you"? Did someone abandon you? Did you fail at something and someone deserted you because of it? Did you grow up believing love is something to be earned by being pretty enough, or smart enough? Did you try to earn someone's love and they'd keep pulling the rug out from under you no matter how hard you tried? 

That's actually pretty common amongst us "people pleaser" types. Somewhere along the line as we were developing our concepts of love, we came to believe that if we didn't do XYZ just right...it would be withheld or we'd be discarded. So here's my suggestion: REBT That stands for Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy, and in a nutshell you take an incident. You go through and write down: A -what was the Activating Event? B -what was the unhealthy Belief that you had? C -what's the Consequence of the unhealthy belief? D -Debate your unhealthy belief! E -what are some Effective, healthy beliefs? and F -what is the new, Functional goal? When you have an event when you feel like you're trying to earn love...fill out the REBT form and learn to think in a new, more healthy, self-worthy way.



TXSDR said:


> ... He told me a while back that he only recalls his dad telling him he loves him one time. As for his mom, I’m not sure.


So it sounds to me like he hasn't had a lot of smushy love modeled to him. If it's not something someone has had in their life, they aren't going to be experts at it! Thus, maybe you could teach him! Not that you are the great and wise one, but this is a relationship where you relate to him and he relates to you...so teach him what love is TO YOU so he does understand what to do. He may get frustrated as he learns but even then that's not personal--he may just feel like a failure! So let him "win" a couple and show him when he does make you happy. (BTW that's a colloquial term. In real life, what I mean there is when he does something, and you choose to feel happiness and content with his efforts, show him!).


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

TXSDR said:


> those 3 little words that I’ve been waiting to hear.


Is dinner ready …


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## OdliDPrincess (3 mo ago)

I and my bf have different love languages. We have to learn from each other and listen closely to make each other happy.


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## TXSDR (6 mo ago)

[


Young at Heart said:


> Yes, your questions and post makes sense.
> 
> Let me share something that I had to learn the hard way in trying to save my sex starved marriage. My wife and I both read Chapman's 5 LL. My primary LL is touch, my secondary is works of affirmation. My wife's primary is quality time, and her secondary LL is acts of service.
> 
> ...


Thanks for taking the time to share all of this.

Yes, I feel love in the same way I give it. And he doesn’t show me love in some of my ways (touch/physical or verbally). Yes, I crave them. But bi also had to keep reading the part about clinginess and it being a return-off. I don’t consider myself clingy, but he may since he’s not big on touch. Of course my mind tells me that he just doesn’t touch me much because of his lack of attraction. But he warned me from day one that he’s just not affectionate. I have to keep going back to consider that he did let me know this before we even got deep into this. I need the affection, though. I think he does his best.

And yes, him rejecting (kind of ignoring it basically) my touch sometimes feels like he’s rejecting me and doesn’t love me.

As for the unconditional love, I do give him the foot/back rubs with no expectation of anything in return. I genuinely enjoy making him feel good. I do wish, though, that he would feel the same. Everyone (for the most part) likes a good back/foot rub right? 

Here’s what’s hard for me to figure out now that I’m really thinking about the love language. If acts of service, gifts and quality time are his life language…how do I give him this when he’s working out of state?

Nie that I said that out loud, I guess it’s kind of self explanatory. I give him my time on the phone and text at any given time. He calls me every morning in the to his job and every evening when he’s leaving…and we talk until bedtime. 
As for gifts , he’s not big on accepting gifts.

Also, acts of service is hard when he’s away, except I do spend some time at his house when he’s gone and I take care of some things (think…farm and ranch). I try not to go into too much personal detail on this page. 😊

I also took his mom to his son’s football game last night so that she didn’t have to drive in the rain and also…so I could be there since he can’t. I did it because I wanted to be part of the experience of his son’s game, but also as a token if my love to show him his son and mom mean something to me. And…because he is not available to go himself. 
As for sex, that’s another set of demons. While I am extremely sexually attracted to him (like I wasn’t even to my X husband) he has a lower sex drive. This, in turn, makes me feel unwanted and unattractive…as well as confounds the issue of lack of affection/touch. 

No doubt we some things stacked against us on some levels. I hope and pray we can figure this out. I’m sure there are numerous others things that I’m but even aware of that I could do better or stop doing. 

I’m super happy you and your wife figured things out and are meshing better!!! How long have you been married? {He and I have both been married in the past Just once each. We’ve both been single for MANY years.)


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Extremely sexually attracted yet a near decade in the friend zone?


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## TXSDR (6 mo ago)

RandomDude said:


> Extremely sexually attracted yet a near decade in the friend zone?


Yes, go figure. lol

That’s what happens when you fall in love.


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## TrailTrekker (10 mo ago)

My wife’s love languages are physical touch and words of Affirmation. Mine are acts of service and quality time.

I do things like chores, remodel the house, help with the kids, cook, get groceries, etc to show my wife I love her. She likes those things, but frequently comments on my lack of physical touch and I’m generally a quiet person.

This all has been a source of friction in our marriage of 22 years so far. The toughest thing for my wife is knowing I hug and kiss her daily because it’s her love language, not because I feel like doing those things. She accepts that I try to speak her language because I love her. No matter what, we struggle with this, yet choose to remain together because we really do love each other, even though we are different.

Today I’ll clean up the yard, get groceries, clean up the house some, install a new garage door opener and say ‘look what I did!’thinking she’ll see how much I love her … yet that’s not her love language … it’s so tough sometimes … opposites attract right?


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## TXSDR (6 mo ago)

TrailTrekker said:


> My wife’s love languages are physical touch and words of Affirmation. Mine are acts of service and quality time.
> 
> I do things like chores, remodel the house, help with the kids, cook, get groceries, etc to show my wife I love her. She likes those things, but frequently comments on my lack of physical touch and I’m generally a quiet person.
> 
> ...


Yes yes!

How about words of affirmation? Does ”I love you “ come easy? Do you compliment her because you really want to? Do you tell her how you feel about her? Are you comfortable talking about feelings?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

TXSDR said:


> Yes, go figure. lol
> 
> That’s what happens when you fall in love.


I only had love happen like a lightning bolt, at first sight, it came and stayed for nearly four years and left very suddenly at the end.

Despite it, I did not become sexually attracted out of love. Romantic and sensual attraction yes. So it's curious to me...


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

TrailTrekker said:


> My wife’s love languages are physical touch and words of Affirmation. Mine are acts of service and quality time.
> 
> I do things like chores, remodel the house, help with the kids, cook, get groceries, etc to show my wife I love her. She likes those things, but frequently comments on my lack of physical touch and I’m generally a quiet person.
> 
> ...


Can you come over to my house?


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## TrailTrekker (10 mo ago)

TXSDR said:


> Yes yes!
> 
> How about words of affirmation? Does ”I love you “ come easy? Do you compliment her because you really want to? Do you tell her how you feel about her? Are you comfortable talking about feelings?


Words of affirmation definitely do not come easily for me. I say ‘I love you’ and text it … and that’s an easy one as it is more of a habit. My wife sometimes brings up the lack of authentic compliments such as ‘your outfit looks so beautiful on you.’ It’s something I need to remember to do, along with physical touch.

One thing that helped was doing a couples challenge .. like husbands here’s a 30 day daily challenge, and it was geared toward words of affirmation. She was infatuated with me that month, and then I made the mistake of telling her about it when it was done lol.

Phones can help with these things now, a daily reminder app to say something special to my wife helps me out.


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## TrailTrekker (10 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> Can you come over to my house?


Lol, my wife mentioned a coworker who would watch her husband clean the house (which wasn’t very often I guess) and it was like the biggest turn on for her… especially when he vacuumed haha … I’m guessing her love language was acts of service? Lol


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Thinking acts of service just doesn't mesh with those with a more dominating persona. But hey when we love someone we do it anyway... until they take it for granted.


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## TXSDR (6 mo ago)

RandomDude said:


> I only had love happen like a lightning bolt, at first sight, it came and stayed for nearly four years and left very suddenly at the end.
> 
> Despite it, I did not become sexually attracted out of love. Romantic and sensual attraction yes. So it's curious to me...


I’m stumped, too - seeing that I had zero attraction to him all those years. 
Maybe it’s the chase that he’s had me on the past 7 months.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

TXSDR said:


> ......i also had to keep reading the part about *clinginess and it being a return-off.* I don’t consider myself clingy, *but he may since he’s not big on touch*. Of course *my mind tells me that he just doesn’t touch me much because of his lack of attraction*. But he warned me from day one that he’s just not affectionate. I have to keep going back to consider that he did let me know this before we even got deep into this. *I need the affection, though*. I think he does his best.
> 
> And yes, him rejecting (kind of ignoring it basically) my touch *sometimes feels like he’s rejecting me and doesn’t love me.*
> 
> ...


A few more thoughts.

First, I think you are clingy, based on your previous post and this post. Being clingy is not sexy, sorry. Have you ever read Esther Perel's book, Mating in Captivity? I would also suggest you read M.W. Davis books Divorce Busting and the Sex Starved Wife. You might learn some lessons in what clingy really is and how makes sex less likely. Both should give you some thoughts about what to do. My suggestion is after you read those books, sit down with your guy and ask him if he thinks of you as clingy? If he asks why you are asking that tell him that in Esther Perel's book it describes how there is this problem in long term relationships where most people need and crave the exotic and erotic that don't have, while wanting to be comfortable with enjoy what they do have. Tell him that in reverse psychology, pulling for something emotionally, tends to trigger an opposite reaction. Tell him you don't want to appear to clingy and yet you absolutely sexually desire him more than any other person on the face of the earth. Tell him that you don't know how to let him know how much you desire him and yet not appear needy and clingy and want his help. Ask him how you can seduce him or pleasure him with out appearing too desparate? He just might tell you.

Your post also tells me that you perhaps do have a covert contract problem, when it comes to touch. It sounds like you want him to touch you so very much. I suggest that you and he try the Sensate Focus exercises so you can learn how wonderful it feels to just touch him, without expecting anything in immediate return. Let him learn how good it feels to touch you, when he knows that it will not lead to sex or your doing any touching of him. Tell him you need help in reprogramming your understanding of your "touch love language." The touch love language does not involve sex. I have read Chapman's book many times. Touch is about touch, is is not about orgasms, not about PIV, not about erotic arousal. The Sensate Focus exercises sound like they would be perfect for you and your guy. You just might understand the difference between sensual and sexual touch and learn to enjoy each and have him enjoy each.

*how do I give him this when he’s working out of state?
*
You sound like you did some great acts of service and quality time stuff while he was out of town on business. You might want to tell him how much you liked spending time with his son and mom and the son's football game and that you would like to do that again with him.

One of the gift's I use to give my wife, which was partly an act of service and partly a gift, was that when she traveled on business, I would sometimes call the hotel she was staying at in advance, and ask if they have room service and how late the kitchen stays open. Some of the things, I did were have a fruit basket delivered to her room so it was there waiting for her, when she arrived. Other times, I would have a dessert plate sent to her room on the night of her arrival. She didn't need to be there, if I ordered non-perishable things and could come back from dinner to find a treat waiting for her with a note from me. Sometimes I would have flowers delivered to her room. I always gave the hotel my credit card and put a generous tip so that it would be delivered promptly and with style.

My wife and I have been married over 51 years. A little over a decade ago, she told me she had absolutely no sexual desire for me and she never wanted to ever have sex with me. I promised myself that I would try to fix out marriage and give it a couple years and if she could not give me a loving sexual relationship, I would divorce her and find someone else. The Sex Therapist and marriage counselor who saved our marriage helped us both understand the situation, provide each of us with options and guidance on getting what we each wanted, and helped negotiate compromises and set our expectations for the future of our marriage.

Good luck. Don't give up.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Don't give up???

The boyfriend has told OP he isn't attracted to her. 

If a man isn't attracted to a woman it's really going to change the way he relates to her.

All of this advice is going to have OP trying to fit a square into a round hole, as the saying goes.

No amount of her forcing the situation is going to make him feel what he doesn't.


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## TXSDR (6 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> Don't give up???
> 
> The boyfriend has told OP he isn't attracted to her.
> 
> ...


He and I have discussed this multiple times. He asked me why he’d be with me if he weren’t attracted to me. 

No, he doesn’t gawk over me…but I think his comment that night was a cover up for his male issue. It really doesn’t make sense to me. 

He devotes all of his time to me when he’s not at work.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

TXSDR said:


> He and I have discussed this multiple times. He asked me why he’d be with me if he weren’t attracted to me.
> 
> No, he doesn’t gawk over me…but I think his comment that night was a cover up for his male issue. It really doesn’t make sense to me.
> 
> He devotes all of his time to me when he’s not at work.


I was perusing your other threads and combined with this one, all I can say is “you have been warned over and over about this guy”. You don't have a quality guy.

You seem to want to justify whatever he says or does and take the burden of pain onto yourself. That’s sad. After he cheats or leaves you (or both), I hope you find real happiness.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Livvie said:


> Don't give up???
> 
> The boyfriend has told OP he isn't attracted to her.
> 
> ...


At the low point in our sex starved marriage, my wife told me that she had absolutely no sexual desire for me and never wanted to have sex with me again.

Still after trying to save the marriage, my wife changed herself, because the Sex Therapist and marriage counsel made my wife understand that she was headed toward divorce if my wife didn't change and that I had changed a huge amount and was committed to save the marriage, but soon, if my wife did not change herself, she would be divorced by me. That was enough for my wife to commit to some of the exercises to build sensual attraction, sensual desire and from there sexual attraction and sexual desire.

As part of the negotiated settlement on what a loving sexual relationship looked like my wife committed to sex twice a week. And yes, she does enjoy sex with me, even though twice a week pushes her limits and it barely meets mine.

I agree that you can't force your partner to want sex with you, but they can change their own attitudes toward sex and you can support that change they make. Therefore, I disagree with your square peg round hole approach.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Young at Heart said:


> At the low point in our sex starved marriage, my wife told me that she had absolutely no sexual desire for me and never wanted to have sex with me again.
> 
> Still after trying to save the marriage, my wife changed herself, because the Sex Therapist and marriage counsel made my wife understand that she was headed toward divorce if my wife didn't change and that I had changed a huge amount and was committed to save the marriage, but soon, if my wife did not change herself, she would be divorced by me. That was enough for my wife to commit to some of the exercises to build sensual attraction, sensual desire and from there sexual attraction and sexual desire.
> 
> ...


Apples and oranges, the 2 situations. 

This man is a boyfriend, NOT a long term spouse with years of marital history and a shared life.

Read her other threads.


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## TXSDR (6 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> Apples and oranges, the 2 situations.
> 
> This man is a boyfriend, NOT a long term spouse with years of marital history and a shared life.
> 
> Read her other threads.


I believe he has read them.

I understand your perspective.

I understand it all sounds insane. He chased me for many many years and I shocked him when I finally came to my senses. He wasn’t expecting it and had, honestly, finally started to give up.

He asked me from day 1 to please not give up on him. He told me he had some work to do. I told him after 8.5 years of him putting up with me , I wouldn’t give up on him. I don’t plan on it yet.

There’s a lot more than what meets the eye here. I said I’d never tolerate ANY BS since my divorce in 2009, but this guy has treated me like gold for years and wouldn’t give up. I slid in at the last second. As much as he says he has no resentment, I think he has a little.

I can’t tell you the dynamics of our life, but we have a great thing and are like PB&J. I’ve been single since 2009 (a few short lived relationships) and he’s been single since 2010 w/ no real “relationships” to mention. You have two successful and independent people trying to come together and figure things out. I don’t know why he’s done and said some ****ty things, but he’s really gotten so much better.

He’s never been loved like I love him. He doesn't know how to reciprocate it. He’s doing better. I see lots of progress. He’s definitely not regressing.

I can’t imagine my life without him. And, no, I’m not a glutten for punishment. He really has great ways that I don’t mention here. It’s the in-between things that hurt and make me post here.

He’s not the devil and I’m not stupid.


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## sleeping_sandman (2 mo ago)

TXSDR said:


> I believe he has read them.
> 
> I understand your perspective.
> 
> ...


Dear TX, 

Maybe I can throw in some thoughts here from a completely different angle as the whole courting and relationship process is a total different one over here than in the US.
As a people Germans in generaly are very upfront and direct and that permiates into relationships also. 
I will take some of this blunt directness now for you. 

But please, whenever I sound rude or offensive: English is my second language. If I sound mean - I don't mean it, I just don't know that a certain phrase is mean or derogative (is theis the right term?) 
I will only put my thoughts in the most upfront way I can.
I will concentrate on your boyfriend, and will try to give you an inside from the male perspective on all of it. 

As you yourself already posted he is struggeling and you are struggeling especially in the quoted post you already get a glimpse of that, but I fear the damage goes far deeper. 
That is why I post in the first place. To prepare you for the coming dark times ahead. 

And I hope with these insights, for what they are worth to you, I hope you can come up with a plan to mend his wounds and through that his detrimental behaviour, before he scars you to much. 
From what I read of you I think he and you earned it. 

With that said, let's dive in:

First my point of knowledge on the primary facts:


You and your now boyfriend know each other for long. You befriended around 9 years ago. He was in love back than, you were not. So you stick together 8.5 years as friends before you fell for him and he said yes.
He seems to be unaffactionate though, has ED to a degree (reason here might be his diabetes from 4 years back?)
He is looking at other, especially way younger women.
He told you he is not attracted but was able to say I love you after a time.
Both of you had no relationship AT ALL since you are 'friends'
He flirts with younger women, even while you are around
Please correct if I missed a crucial point

And so it begins:

Somewhere 9 years ago you and your now boyfriend became friends.

He chased you for 8.5 YEARS because he was love sruck from the beginning. You told him, while you see him as a friend, you do not have romantic feelings for him. And it was up to him to decide what to do with this information. 

He stayed, luckily(?) and you talked and did stuff together - you became comfortable around him. 
Maybe, unconsciously, too comfortable?
You might have given him false signals without even knowing. Men pursuing a woman might interpret things differently. 
What you thought to be an affectionate gesture to a friend, for him it might be the 'teasing' signal, the ray of hope he needed to string along.
Check for yourself on what you did with him, how you behaved towards him. 
Would you have behaved that way to ANY other man you are on good terms with? If not, why? 

And by the way, why did none of you had a relationship in 9 years? Exactly the 9 years you were hanging out together? Mh?
Anyway, he pursued you for a fifth of his entire lifetime. 
This might be romantic in Films and books. 

In the real world this is damaging and dangerous for the mental health of both of you. But especially for his, as you just learn the hard way dealing with the fallout of what 8.5 years of chasing and chastity does to a male brain while the point of attraction stays around. 

You, unwittingly, unleasehd his inner hunter gatherer and from that day on he was on the hunt. 
8.5 years ago you opened up the hunt for you by staying so close to him after friendzoning.
And then, just half a year ago by granting him his big prize the hunter finally won! As in the myths from times immemorial! You fullfilled his ONE desire

But the hunter lived up there in his mind for 8.5 YEARS. And he loves it up there, you know. He will not go down without a fight. 
By flirting with other women he just does what he had done the last fifth of his life. It became habitual to him. It is possible that doesn't even notice that he is doing it. For him it might be like shutting the door and forgetting wether he locked it already or not. Muscle-memory, no conscieous thought. 
Go back and look for yourself on what he did with you.

His behaviour was exactly the same towards YOU as it is now to other women. 
I would bet a paycheck on that 

8.5 years of pursuing, 
102 months 
or 3,102 days
or 74,460 hours
or 4,466,800 minutes
or 268.012.800 seconds.
Two hundred sixtyeight million twelfthousand eighthunred seconds you let him chase you. 

And he felt EVERY SINGLE ONE OF IT. tic.... tac... tic... tac...
And yet, here you are complaining about his strange behaviour after only 4 months.... 

Sorry, sorry, I know that was mean. Low blow, I am sorry. 
I just wanted to give you a perspective of what he was and is going through.
But you both can mend this, untrain him. Divert his attention, let him know when you feel uncomfortable. He will retrain himself, for your sake. 
This guy is madly in love with you, even if can't show this.

8.5 years in friendzone. Never allowed to touch the prize he strives for. 
**** me, this guy is persistent. 
The last guy this persistent in courting and fighting for the love of a woman became a major figure in german folklore. 

Hell, what are you, Woman? 
The reincarnated Helen of Troy? 
Goddess Freyja ? 

So, for the more, let's say delicate matter on his performance issues. It sounds weird that a notoriously flirty guy is not up to the deed properly, right? 
Until we see the above. 

With letting him fight for 8.5 years and finally caveing in you stoked the flame of selfdoubt. 

Over the years you became the big price
The Kerynitian Hind of Artemis. 
He than, finally, the goddess gave him permission to catch you. 
The Hind of Artemis was only caught once, by the greek hero and demi-god Heracles. But it took him only a year. 
So again, your boyfriend wasn't up for the task. Selfdoubt is a *****. 

Let's start a thought-joruney, if you will.

Let me walk you down this narrow staircase that is in the back of anybodys mind into the dark places of a man's unconscieous.
Though being monsterous abominations, these haunters living down here are harmful only to him, not you

Look (pointing a finger into the darkness)
"I am is below average", over there in the corner talking fervently to "And you just pity me for that." Can you see them? They grew close about 4 years ago about half through his desperate attempt to turn you towards him. Nice couple those. 

Oh, and over there - "You give me all the affection only, because I am weak and pathetic" walks past "My small penis with performance problems doesn't give you any satisfaction" and smiles at him. 
After them working on your boyfriends mind for a while he is ****ed up reeeeeaalllyy good. Pretty much no sex possible for the next 4 weeks. And their shift table is three weeks. 
Good luck with THAT one.

And over there is a special one - two heads, do you see? They are called "you don't really love me, you just want to have me around to have someone to redicule and belittle" and "I hate you" he is a true monster. 
Because he is the only one who can really reach out to the real world and turn things nasty and violent. Check on him from time to time, will you? 

Oh and see this guy over there? It's the first prisoner and he is called: "Why would she have not accepted me 8.5 years ago? Why did she not see what good of a man I can be? A provider of love and safe haven. Like men should do, and we did for 200 millenia. Only I fell thorugh. And I hear them laughing. Thousands of generation of real Men to whom I never will measure up to. And she knows" - nice guy, isn't he? A real sunshine if you ever saw one. 
And this guy you will never defeat. 
You, unknowingly and unwillingly, fed him Two hundred sixtyeight million twelfthousand eighthunred times (remember that number? if not see above). 
You can only contain him, but even then he will come up to wreak havoc on your boyfriends mind. 
And you have to be his shieldmaiden then, as my wife was and still is to me. Because this one is the one thing a man can not fight alone, you have to fight this thing alongside him or he will lose.
The self-loathing never ends. It is always there. Waiting, patiently, for it's chance...

So with knowing all that - would you be able to maintain an erection long enough to please? 
I doubt it...
But then, asking a woman about maintaining an erection... kinda contraintuitve, right? 

For the touching thing - please try to imagine being on the receiving end of 'we are just friends' for years just to be carpetbombed with love totally out of the blue. 

I wanted to add a passage about you, but that would make it too long, so I only want to throw a small thoughtgrenade your way. 

And please, please with a cherry on top: Only pull the pin if you are absolutely, 100% sure of your feelings for him. 
Otherwise this thing can really **** with your mind.
On the other hand it can be the pang of clarity you need to see straight again. It is up to you. 

If you are not sure, but can't restrain yourself let me know quickly, I will redact it immediately. 





Have you ever questioned where your sudden 180° turn comes from? 
HAving your age in mind and this rather peculiar change I would guess: Torschlusspanik


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

I realize you were asking for advise from men here and I am not a man but I will lend my thoughts which you can take or leave. You had this man is a friend zone for years and so many times when a man is put in a friend zone they have this dream, or fantasy, of what it would be like to be with you. Some will continue the chance, it might not be real hard chase but they will loop in and out checking to see if they can make their way past that friend zone. Unfortunately, once the chance is complete and they have made their way "in" they are no longer interested many times. He enjoyed the thrill of the chase more than actually being involved in the relationship.

You are putting a great deal of effort into understanding him, pleasing him but that is not being reciprocated. Many times we chalk a man's lack of communication up to being men and as we have been taught that men do not communicate well and so we ladies make too many excuses for them. Your needs are not getting met by this man and I do not believe it is because you are clingy. I believe you are wanting something from this man that he simply cannot give and you need it, more than likely an emotional connection. He does not understand this and pushes your needs aside. If you see he likes younger ladies, he cannot tell you he loves you, is not giving back to you what is in this for you? You cannot make him into the man of your dreams.

Who in your childhood home could you not please....your mom or your dad? Can you draw a parallel to how your relationship is with this man, to the relationship with the parent you could not please? Is it safe to say you are trying to fix your childhood?


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## TXSDR (6 mo ago)

sleeping_sandman said:


> Dear TX,
> 
> Maybe I can throw in some thoughts here from a completely different angle as the whole courting and relationship process is a total different one over here than in the US.
> As a people Germans in generaly are very upfront and direct and that permiates into relationships also.
> ...


Just saw your post. So fun and interesting to read. In all those years I never gave him false hope intentionally. Except that I gave him my time and some random gifts…which I didn’t realize those two things are his love language. 

I live with pain and regrets daily of him having to wait. But I assume things happen in their proper timing. I call it God’s timing.

I understand where you are coming from.
He did, however, warn me that “it was probably broke due to his diabetes” in advance. He was giving me a heads up. He also has very low testosterone we just found out. But he’s not made any plans to do anything about it yet.

As for the flirting he does, he apparently did to an extent with me…but not too much because I let him know I just saw him as a friend at the very beginning. I wish I could go back and change the.  I just didn’t see him in that light. I knew he was the perfect guy for me. Breaks my heart.

All of the other things you said may be true. But he says he has always had the quick ejaculation. He didn’t tell me how long he’s had the ED. But I know his testosterone was low over a year ago as well. He told methe dr he’s not had a sex drive in a couple of years at least.

I’ve had two guys I’ve been with in the past 9 years and they were VERY short termed. He didn’t know about them. He had some one night stands and one that was more than a one night stand, but I don’t know the duration. But it wasn’t long. Someone he worked with like 7 yrs ago. Ugghhh. Makes me sick.

Nothing you said offended me. I like your twist on it.


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## TXSDR (6 mo ago)

AVR1962 said:


> I realize you were asking for advise from men here and I am not a man but I will lend my thoughts which you can take or leave. You had this man is a friend zone for years and so many times when a man is put in a friend zone they have this dream, or fantasy, of what it would be like to be with you. Some will continue the chance, it might not be real hard chase but they will loop in and out checking to see if they can make their way past that friend zone. Unfortunately, once the chance is complete and they have made their way "in" they are no longer interested many times. He enjoyed the thrill of the chase more than actually being involved in the relationship.
> 
> You are putting a great deal of effort into understanding him, pleasing him but that is not being reciprocated. Many times we chalk a man's lack of communication up to being men and as we have been taught that men do not communicate well and so we ladies make too many excuses for them. Your needs are not getting met by this man and I do not believe it is because you are clingy. I believe you are wanting something from this man that he simply cannot give and you need it, more than likely an emotional connection. He does not understand this and pushes your needs aside. If you see he likes younger ladies, he cannot tell you he loves you, is not giving back to you what is in this for you? You cannot make him into the man of your dreams.
> 
> Who in your childhood home could you not please....your mom or your dad? Can you draw a parallel to how your relationship is with this man, to the relationship with the parent you could not please? Is it safe to say you are trying to fix your childhood?


My childhood was perfect. I can’t blame my childhood on anything.

I had a controlling friend who would claw/pinch my arms when I would go to leave her house when we were little girls.

I had a verbally abusive boyfriend in high school.
My x-husband was verbally abusive. We were married 13.5 years…together 18. He didn’t get that way until years into our marriage.


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## TXSDR (6 mo ago)

sleeping_sandman said:


> Have you ever questioned where your sudden 180° turn comes from?
> HAving your age in mind and this rather peculiar change I would guess: Torschlusspanik


I have questioned it. I think I had been trying so long to like him and I think (and he thinks) that when he finally stopped showing interest….I woke up.

I knew I never wanted to see him with anyone else.

But I did literally fall in love quickly…though I believe it had been coming for the past year at least. 

Age…maybe I don’t really feel that was it, but it may have played a part.


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

We have a mismatch as well. I’m physical touch and my wife is acts of service. Her least of the love languages is physical touch and she’s told me she really has to think about it in order to fulfill my love language. It’s also why she’s the way she is with sex. She doesn’t even think about it so she doesn’t desire it. 

I’ve learned to give up on my having either just physical touch or sexual desires fulfilled. It is what it is.


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## sleeping_sandman (2 mo ago)

TXSDR said:


> Just saw your post. So fun and interesting to read. In all those years I never gave him false hope intentionally. Except that I gave him my time and some random gifts…which I didn’t realize those two things are his love language.
> 
> I live with pain and regrets daily of him having to wait. But I assume things happen in their proper timing. I call it God’s timing.
> 
> ...


So let me recapitulate on this:

You had boyfriends. but not in his eyes? Why didn't you tell him? (Fear of losing him comes immediately to mind, sorry) - it is not cheating as you were not with him, but making it a secret seems odd. My kitchen table psychologist in me would like to know your reasoning. And no not YOURS. but the one from the unconscious you. The reasoning you yourself doesn't even know. 

But not to overemphazise on that, because I miss context here. 

He has less Testosterone - then grab him by the proverbial balls and drag him to a men's doctor (or urologiest, comes in pairs most of the time), that is easily treatable. And I know my wife sometimes regrets that she drew me there 🤪
To do the deed if he is missing out on an erection or can't hold it Pfizer did a Jesus Christ on the menfolk 😅
I am in the beginning fifties and now and then I need a little help to jumpstart Minime, too. 
By the way: Putting them on the topside of a revealing top and holding a glass of water very whit this innocent look goes miles for me. 

For his mind it looks different. 
First I like to suggest that you stop beating yourself up about what you might have or not in the past. That is gone. You can not change it. And it's rather unsexy. I don't know about your guy, but I like my lady confident and eye to eye, not apologetig. Obviously he could live with you ****ing it up. 
What you can change, though, is your behaviour a bit. 
First of all stop love-bombing him. Give him breathing space. Not too much, though. He was deprived of your love for much too long. 
To be honest if you would have friendszoned me with me loving you madly I would be gone about 8 years ago. Selfpreservation. 

Speak to him in not uncertain terms that you don't like what he is doing with these other girls. 
Tell him that his charms won you over, so you are vary that it works again (maybe a teary eye? 😉Sometimes Men are fond of being manipulated a bit, makes us look like the strong hero - I know this as the woman who carried around our child for 2 hours one day can not lift a shopping bag half the wight the next if her live depends on it. I have to do it, pleeeasseee? with a bat of an eyelash)

Tell him that you worry about his 'broken' penis. That it can be some serious ****. Go check it out together.
Stuff like that. 
Especially in health matters many men need a guiding hand. We are too stubborn to accept that bleeding from the ear at random is not due to bad music 😇😋 you get my idea... 
But be aware you way is long.
I wish you all the best. But first of all get rid of your regrets. They don't help. And one to repair in a relationship is tough enough. 
And you are not damaged, just pissed off by yourself.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

Mr.Married said:


> Do you know the best way for a man to understand what a woman wants?
> 
> It involves beating us over the head with a frying pan while screaming as loud as you can exactly what it is you want.
> 
> ...


This should be printed on a card and given to every wife to carry with her at all times.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Young at Heart said:


> Yes, your questions and post makes sense.
> 
> Let me share something that I had to learn the hard way in trying to save my sex starved marriage. My wife and I both read Chapman's 5 LL. My primary LL is touch, my secondary is works of affirmation. My wife's primary is quality time, and her secondary LL is acts of service.
> 
> ...


I used to do more and more HH chores because wife said she had no time and was tired by the time she came to bed. It just gave her more time to think up new projects to start. I got to point of divorce, sex 3x a month was not cutting it for me. I am like you physical touch and words of affirmation. Many tasks I completed were not HOW she would have done it, so slap in the face. 

All you think about is sex....yep all a man dying in the desert thinks about is water. One tends to obsess over what is needed and being withheld from you.

We finally had a sit down and come to Jesus meeting where it was all out on the table and she realized what she was doing and reversed it. It saddens her that she almost lost me because of her mindset and preconceived notions from first failed marriage.

She had in her mind if she has sex regularly with me, I will get bored with her and start looking for another woman. Ex was serial cheater. Once that idea was set right, we have sex ~5 days a week. I'm 50, her 54


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

BootsAndJeans said:


> This should be printed on a card and given to every wife to carry with her at all times.


But so many times a woman will say she wants one thing and expect the other. I know, I know...should have read her mind.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

TXSDR said:


> I’m stumped, too - seeing that I had zero attraction to him all those years.
> Maybe it’s the chase that he’s had me on the past 7 months.


A woman can be the most gorgeous creature to walk the earth, but if she is ugly on the inside, it taints the view. 

Likewise, one can be average in looks, but if they are gold on the inside, it makes the overall package much more attractive.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

TrailTrekker said:


> My wife’s love languages are physical touch and words of Affirmation. Mine are acts of service and quality time.
> 
> I do things like chores, remodel the house, help with the kids, cook, get groceries, etc to show my wife I love her. She likes those things, but frequently comments on my lack of physical touch and I’m generally a quiet person.
> 
> ...


All these things you do are because you like it...self love. It does nothing for her.

Would be like her being there if you want sex or buying you all these gifts, but she is always gone working and does not do anything for you. Then she wonders why you are not satisfied with all the gifts she has bought you.


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)




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## TrailTrekker (10 mo ago)

Divinely Favored said:


> All these things you do are because you like it...self love. It does nothing for her.
> 
> Would be like her being there if you want sex or buying you all these gifts, but she is always gone working and does not do anything for you. Then she wonders why you are not satisfied with all the gifts she has bought you.


Actually you’re wrong, I do these things because this is how I speak my love language to her, it is not self love. Our different love languages make for an interesting relational dynamic, it’s never boring for sure!  But we do speak each other’s languages out of love, even if they don’t come naturally for us.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

TrailTrekker said:


> Actually you’re wrong, I do these things because this is how I speak my love language to her, it is not self love. Our different love languages make for an interesting relational dynamic, it’s never boring for sure!  But we do speak each other’s languages out of love, even if they don’t come naturally for us.


The important part is that you do things for her in her language or you are spinning your wheels. If they are not feeling it, it is for not.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

TrailTrekker said:


> Actually you’re wrong, I do these things because this is how I speak my love language to her, it is not self love. Our different love languages make for an interesting relational dynamic, it’s never boring for sure!  But we do speak each other’s languages out of love, even if they don’t come naturally for us.


Your love language is how you receive love from others.....you are talking Greek to her if it is not in her language.


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