# Are any surprised when your spouse partner didn't fight for your marriage at all?



## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

Sorry for beating a dead donkey, but I am curious from other people who've gone through marital problems. After you separated or divorced, are you surprised that your spouse didn't fight at all to keep the marriage together? Just looking back and seeing in my mind how I can see each time no interest in working it out. It's very possible that I am very naive in relationships, but I just find it so weird and just strange. If a spouse is not going to fight to keep a relationship, why go through the whole process of marriage?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Almost-Done said:


> Sorry for beating a dead donkey, but I am curious from other people who've gone through marital problems. After you separated or divorced, are you surprised that your spouse didn't fight at all to keep the marriage together? Just looking back and seeing in my mind how I can see each time no interest in working it out. It's very possible that I am very naive in relationships, but I just find it so weird and just strange. If a spouse is not going to fight to keep a relationship, why go through the whole process of marriage?


It could just be that they respect your decision, and don't want to be controlling in any way.


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## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

jld said:


> It could just be that they respect your decision, and don't want to be controlling in any way.


I am talking before divorce. During and before separation. One to prevent the separation. Or, during separation, to attempt to reconcile and prevent the divorce.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Almost-Done said:


> I am talking before divorce. During and before separation. One to prevent the separation. Or, during separation, to attempt to reconcile and prevent the divorce.


Right. I am just saying that for some people, hearing a spouse wants a divorce or even just separation might seem like such a rejection that "fighting for the marriage" might not even occur to them. They would not want to stand in the way of their spouse's happiness.

If my husband told me he wanted that, that is probably what I would do.


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## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

jld said:


> Right. I am just saying that for some people, hearing a spouse wants a divorce or even just separation might seem like such a rejection that "fighting for the marriage" might not even occur to them. They would not want to stand in the way of their spouse's happiness.
> 
> If my husband told me he wanted that, that is probably what I would do.


Agreed. However, before the separation, just not working on the marriage and giving up? That's normal?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Almost-Done said:


> Agreed. However, before the separation, just not working on the marriage and giving up? That's normal?


Thing is, the other spouse may think they _are_ working on the marriage. Or they may think things are fine.

What is obvious to one is not necessarily obvious to the other, right?


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

I agree with jld. 

When something feels out of sorts to me, and I bring it up to my H he is clueless and it's not that he does not care it is because he does not see it. But when I bring it up he acknowledges and makes changes. As do I with him, people can get so caught up in life and the routine that they don't always notice things.

Now if you have talked to your spouse and let them know the marriage is reaching a breaking point, it could be because they are just done. Or if one is a nag it could be oh boy here they go again, and blow it off to simple nagging. Folks can be pretty clueless, that is why communication is so important.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Often they can say anything, but do nothing. I feel like I am treading that line...


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

jld said:


> Right. I am just saying that for some people, hearing a spouse wants a divorce or even just separation might seem like such a rejection that "fighting for the marriage" might not even occur to them. They would not want to stand in the way of their spouse's happiness.
> 
> If my husband told me he wanted that, that is probably what I would do.


I'm with you on this one. I fought so hard for my marriage I think it drained all the fight out of me or possibly just showed me how fruitless it is to try and change someone's mind when it's made up. 

I was told twice since that divorce that when ending a relationship with one of my previous GF I was rather cold and unemotional about the breakup. Probably because well, I was. My mind only now thinks like this "if you don't want to be with me then by all means go, I'll help you pack"


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

My XWW didn't fight for our marriage at all and I was a little surprised at the time. But I think it's because she respected my decision. She knew my mind was made up and there was no point in her fighting a losing battle.


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## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

Lostme said:


> I agree with jld.
> 
> When something feels out of sorts to me, and I bring it up to my H he is clueless and it's not that he does not care it is because he does not see it. But when I bring it up he acknowledges and makes changes. As do I with him, people can get so caught up in life and the routine that they don't always notice things.
> 
> Now if you have talked to your spouse and let them know the marriage is reaching a breaking point, it could be because they are just done. Or if one is a nag it could be oh boy here they go again, and blow it off to simple nagging. Folks can be pretty clueless, that is why communication is so important.



Agreed. How about, you've tried to talk, but the spouse refuses to communicate. Says she's "trying", but all she is doing is work, watch tv, eat dinner, talk to friends/parents and sleep. Rinse and repeat. After a year of this, what's a spouse to do?


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## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

Herschel said:


> Often they can say anything, but do nothing. I feel like I am treading that line...


Basically what I had. It's mind numbing.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Almost-Done said:


> If a spouse is not going to fight to keep a relationship, why go through the whole process of marriage?


A spouse who will not fight for the marriage is a spouse NOT worth having. I have no respect for people like that. None.


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## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

Wolf1974 said:


> I'm with you on this one. I fought so hard for my marriage I think it drained all the fight out of me or possibly just showed me how fruitless it is to try and change someone's mind when it's made up.
> 
> I was told twice since that divorce that when ending a relationship with one of my previous GF I was rather cold and unemotional about the breakup. Probably because well, I was. My mind only now thinks like this "if you don't want to be with me then by all means go, I'll help you pack"


I was told the same. I was cold and unemotional with the separation and breakup. Yet, when I asked dozens of time during the marriage to work on us, nothing. I never had such a communication barrier before. I am still knocking my head against the wall, what else could I had done. She'd tell her friends and parents everything (I'd over hear some), but me, she's a mute. We used to have an amazingly close relationship. I just do not know what had happened. When others heard her call me cold and insensitive, they were even shocked. We all had the same look on our face; utter disbelief.


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## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

Bananapeel said:


> My XWW didn't fight for our marriage at all and I was a little surprised at the time. But I think it's because she respected my decision. She knew my mind was made up and there was no point in her fighting a losing battle.


I asked at the beginning of the year, did she want a divorce? No, then I don't know. Do you love me, yes, then I don't know, then yes again. I then overheard that she was not happy at all being married to me, but she didn't want to be alone. After that, I bit the bullet and filed not to long after. I do not need anyone to stay with me because they are afraid to be alone, or I am the best they think they could get. I swear, I felt like I was punched in the gut with an anvil million times.


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## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

BetrayedDad said:


> A spouse who will not fight for the marriage is a spouse NOT worth having. I have no respect for people like that. None.


I tend to agree. I was really surprised for her not to try at all. Funny thing. After she received the papers, she changed her name back to her madien name on Facebook, Snapchat, Twitter, and Instagram the same day. The even stranger thing was that she kept all of our pictures across Twitter, Facebook and Instagram online. I've since unlinked our accounts, so I know nothing else.

Strange. No?


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Almost-Done said:


> I was told the same. I was cold and unemotional with the separation and breakup. Yet, when I asked dozens of time during the marriage to work on us, nothing. I never had such a communication barrier before. I am still knocking my head against the wall, what else could I had done. She'd tell her friends and parents everything (I'd over hear some), but me, she's a mute. We used to have an amazingly close relationship. I just do not know what had happened. When others heard her call me cold and insensitive, they were even shocked. We all had the same look on our face; utter disbelief.


Sometimes it's out of your hand. I fought for her when she gave me the I love you but not in love with you speech. But when I found the real reason was her cheating I was just completely done and matter of fact about the whole thing. 


Guess I want someone who wants to be here. If you aren't willing to work on things and make problems better then by all means just go


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Almost-Done said:


> Strange. No?


Yes because you cared about her...

But if you accept she never gave two sh!ts about you, then her behavior makes sense. It's how you would treat someone you are utterly indifferent towards. 

So why did she marry you then? Because you were a tool. What resource(s) did you offer her? Financial stability, entertainment, escape from another relationship, etc. 

You apparently outlived your usefulness. Your services were no longer required and the novelty wore off. I'm sorry you married a sociopath. Welcome to the club.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Almost-Done said:


> Sorry for beating a dead donkey, but I am curious from other people who've gone through marital problems. After you separated or divorced, are you surprised that your spouse didn't fight at all to keep the marriage together? Just looking back and seeing in my mind how I can see each time no interest in working it out. It's very possible that I am very naive in relationships, but I just find it so weird and just strange. If a spouse is not going to fight to keep a relationship, why go through the whole process of marriage?


Everyone's views about marriage differ, just because people like you and me take our marriage vows seriously and to heart doesn't mean that our wayward spouses shared the same deep-down beliefs. You can be saddened by it, or just accept it learn from it and if in the future you meet someone that you would choose to marry you'd have experience in your corner so that when you have this conversation you know what characteristics about them actually back up their words.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

I think my ex was just too lazy to put in the effort. 

He was done, he said. He was tired, he said. 

Tired of what? Tired of watching his wife try to hold the family together all by herself? Tired of not going to counseling? Tired of not listening or not discussing anything? 

Knowing him, I'm sure he thought "trying" = drama. And Lord knows, the Drama King did not need any more drama. 

I still tried...even knowing all that. Because I thought I have to do everything that I can think of before calling it done. 

But really, he was right. Done is done. When I got to "done", it was a huge relief. Basically it's just acceptance. This is when I really lived the Serenity Prayer.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Wolf1974 said:


> Sometimes it's out of your hand. I fought for her when she gave me the I love you but not in love with you speech. But when I found the real reason was her cheating I was just completely done and matter of fact about the whole thing.
> 
> Guess I want someone who wants to be here. If you aren't willing to work on things and make problems better then by all means just go


Yup, I think cheaters rarely fight for the marriage, in my experience at least. When you have a second relationship, it doesn't really matter much if the first one fails. The only fighting they do is to keep both relationships going as long as possible.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Almost-Done said:


> I tend to agree. I was really surprised for her not to try at all. Funny thing. After she received the papers, she changed her name back to her madien name on Facebook, Snapchat, Twitter, and Instagram the same day. The even stranger thing was that she kept all of our pictures across Twitter, Facebook and Instagram online. I've since unlinked our accounts, so I know nothing else.
> 
> Strange. No?


She may have just been really hurt by the rejection. 

You can't make someone into a leader. She may just be more of a follower.


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## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

Wolf1974 said:


> Sometimes it's out of your hand. I fought for her when she gave me the I love you but not in love with you speech. But when I found the real reason was her cheating I was just completely done and matter of fact about the whole thing.
> 
> 
> Guess I want someone who wants to be here. If you aren't willing to work on things and make problems better then by all means just go


Agreed. It seems, when the reality and rose colored glasses came off, she wasn't too keen on fighting for the marriage. It seemed like she gave up a long time ago, but was just wasn't ready to leave yet. I recall hearing her say to others she'd leave when she was ready on her terms. 

The biggest issue, at least from what I saw, was we were two people married, but living separate lives like roommates. She didn't seem to have a problem with that, I did. Regardless of how many times I brought it up, she didn't try at all to change or work together. As long as it went along with her plan, she'd be fine. That's not a marriage. She always said compromise was the key to a successful marriage. Yet, she never compromised from her end. Unless, she meant compromise from me to her, but not necessarily her to me?


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## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

BetrayedDad said:


> Yes because you cared about her...
> 
> But if you accept she never gave two sh!ts about you, then her behavior makes sense. It's how you would treat someone you are utterly indifferent towards.
> 
> ...


Yes, I can see that. Once she was on her own again, she had to cover, food, utilities, rent, cable, water, etc. Once the divorce is final, she'll have to cover medical as well. She went from someone who had nearly 2k a month in disposable income to around $150 now. It's now a bit tight financially for her I assume. I guess my utility was to provide food, roof over her head, and maid service. In return, I got a roommate. The arrangement worked for her, at least for now I guess, but it's been a nightmare for me since she moved in. It now makes me jaded and feel like people who enter in relationships say it's for love, but they probably have an ulterior motive. It should be this way.


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## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

Lon said:


> Everyone's views about marriage differ, just because people like you and me take our marriage vows seriously and to heart doesn't mean that our wayward spouses shared the same deep-down beliefs. You can be saddened by it, or just accept it learn from it and if in the future you meet someone that you would choose to marry you'd have experience in your corner so that when you have this conversation you know what characteristics about them actually back up their words.


Yes, agreed. The reason why I stayed so long (and so miserable) was because I believed in my vows and also believed in time things would get better. It would only get better if two people worked at it. I do not understand her logic. How can she (or anyone) think that a relationship would get better w/o communicating and working together? I have to accept it, but again, the old adage rings true. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.  Seems I've become jaded and wounded just like others who've been divorced. It must be easy for people who just are able to break away and not care a bit or take responsibility for their actions.


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## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

SunnyT said:


> I think my ex was just too lazy to put in the effort.
> 
> He was done, he said. He was tired, he said.
> 
> ...


Wow. Sounds a lot like mySTBXW. Sorry you had to experience and go through this. I've been there as well. I do not believe marriage or relationships are supposed to be this much work. Feels like a second (or third) job some times.


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## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> Yup, I think cheaters rarely fight for the marriage, in my experience at least. When you have a second relationship, it doesn't really matter much if the first one fails. The only fighting they do is to keep both relationships going as long as possible.


Perhaps. That I cannot speak on, as she's never cheated on me. Sex was never important to her. Would had been nice if she would had shared this before marriage or a relationship, but it is what it is.


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## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

jld said:


> She may have just been really hurt by the rejection.
> 
> You can't make someone into a leader. She may just be more of a follower.


I am sure, on some level, deep deep deep down, it may had hurt a bit. However, I still feel that she would had liked to be the on to file for the divorce. Agreed on you can't make someone into a leader. She may just be more of a follower. She thinks she's a leader, but since she's following someone else's guidance, she's more of a follower. If she cared or wanted to save the marriage, she had nearly 20 months to work on it with me. She was too tired or she was trying in her own way. Her own way? Was to stop talking to me, do nothing, and complain to her parents and friends. It seems she's more upset that I found out about her plan and real feelings than the end of the marriage or relationship. Someone, at least believe, who wants to stay married, would at least try. Texting every few days is not trying. Refusing to meet and talk is not trying. Silence and no communication is not trying. Actions speak louder than words. She wouldn't do anything to help us. I've never heard of this. Why be married if you are not going to try at all?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Almost-Done said:


> Yes, agreed. The reason why I stayed so long (and so miserable) was because I believed in my vows and also believed in time things would get better. It would only get better if two people worked at it. I do not understand her logic. How can she (or anyone) think that a relationship would get better w/o communicating and working together? I have to accept it, but again, the old adage rings true. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.  Seems I've become jaded and wounded just like others who've been divorced. It must be easy for people who just are able to break away and not care a bit or take responsibility for their actions.


One of the posters here, Turnera, said once that she will give anyone one divorce. But if you are divorced twice, she starts looking at *you*.

Are you really looking at yourself?


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Almost-Done said:


> I guess my utility was to provide food, roof over her head, and maid service. In return, I got a roommate. The arrangement worked for her


An unfortunate truth but at least you see it for what it was. She was a user who paid you in fake affection. She never really cared about you. She may of been incapable of loving anyone but herself. She chases lust and when the honeymoon is over, she looks elsewhere because she's an addict and that's her high.



Almost-Done said:


> It now makes me jaded and feel like people who enter in relationships say it's for love, but they probably have an ulterior motive.


I can only promise you there are women out there who ARE looking for love. They are very hard to find in the superficial world we live in. You have to be willing to discard may girls until you find the right one. Constantly looking for red flags that are disqualifiers despite her "many good qualities".

So how do you know whose a dud? Learn from your mistakes. Anyone you date who behaves like your wife RUN. The pattern of behavior from broken people is usually VERY similar. Date as many women as you can. It is the most rewarding thing in the world when you do find THAT person.

Good Luck.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Almost-Done said:


> The biggest issue, at least from what I saw, was we were two people married, but living separate lives like roommates. She didn't seem to have a problem with that, I did. Regardless of how many times I brought it up, she didn't try at all to change or work together. As long as it went along with her plan, she'd be fine. That's not a marriage. She always said compromise was the key to a successful marriage. Yet, she never compromised from her end. Unless, she meant compromise from me to her, but not necessarily her to me?


Yup, same here. Though my wife made a big deal out of everything being on equal footing. She detested a male run house. But she came from a female run house and she saw equal as being when I would agree with her.

For the most part we did agree and it wasn't a problem. Our basic values and goals were the same for many years. She learned to hide what she was doing when it was something she thought or knew I would object to.

Even with all the times I approached her about trying to improve the marriage, and with her response consistently being that things were as good as anyone had a right to expect, she was the one to ask for divorce. She did so saying it was time to call an end to the farce of a marriage, as if I was the one not participating or trying!


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## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

jld said:


> One of the posters here, Turnera, said once that she will give anyone one divorce. But if you are divorced twice, she starts looking at *you*.
> 
> Are you really looking at yourself?


??? This would be my first (and only) divorce. I've not been married before, so I have no idea what you are talking about.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Almost-Done said:


> ??? This would be my first (and only) divorce. I've not been married before, so I have no idea what you are talking about.


Ah, okay. Thought this was the second.


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## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

BetrayedDad said:


> An unfortunate truth but at least you see it for what it was. She was a user who paid you in fake affection. She never really cared about you. She may of been incapable of loving anyone but herself. She chases lust and when the honeymoon is over, she looks elsewhere because she's an addict and that's her high.


It certainly seems that way. One of the reasons why it hurts so much.



> I can only promise you there are women out there who ARE looking for love. They are very hard to find in the superficial world we live in. You have to be willing to discard may girls until you find the right one. Constantly looking for red flags that are disqualifiers despite her "many good qualities".
> 
> So how do you know whose a dud? Learn from your mistakes. Anyone you date who behaves like your wife RUN. The pattern of behavior from broken people is usually VERY similar. Date as many women as you can. It is the most rewarding thing in the world when you do find THAT person.
> 
> Good Luck.



I am reading up on red flags and what to watch out for. To say I am skeptical would be an understatement. I thought my picker was pretty good. I was able to dodge a few bullets already. Maybe online dating sites aren't a good place for relationships after all. She was found on eHarmony. Not using that site again. 

Just for kicks, I went on Match and put my profile and pictures up. Surprisingly, I had women contacting me. Much different than when I was in my 20's. I've hidden the profile as I was just looking and I am not emotionally ready to date. However, not sure if I can juggle multiple women at once. When I picked this winner, I had 7 women interested, but couldn't handle all of them at once. I picked her as she seemed kind hearted and genuine. I guess I picked wrong. Also more women, more concerned about catching things. It's dangerous out there...


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## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

jld said:


> Ah, okay. Thought this was the second.


Her second. I fought so hard to keep this marriage going because I didn't want failure. It's not for lack of effort on my part. Yes, I feel like an utter fool and I no longer trust my judgment on picking women. I am not a player and I look for genuine good people. This was a black widow. Actions speak louder than words.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Almost-Done said:


> Her second. I fought so hard to keep this marriage going because I didn't want failure. It's not for lack of effort on my part. Yes, I feel like an utter fool and I no longer trust my judgment on picking women. I am not a player and I look for genuine good people. This was a black widow. Actions speak louder than words.


Are you in counseling?


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

There is no point to fight unless you know what you are fighting FOR. In very dysfunctional relationships, status quo is not always worth saving.

You gotta know when to hold 'em, and know when to fold 'em...


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## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

Thor said:


> Yup, same here. Though my wife made a big deal out of everything being on equal footing. She detested a male run house. But she came from a female run house and she saw equal as being when I would agree with her.
> 
> For the most part we did agree and it wasn't a problem. Our basic values and goals were the same for many years. She learned to hide what she was doing when it was something she thought or knew I would object to.
> 
> Even with all the times I approached her about trying to improve the marriage, and with her response consistently being that things were as good as anyone had a right to expect, she was the one to ask for divorce. She did so saying it was time to call an end to the farce of a marriage, as if I was the one not participating or trying!


Crazy situation. Sorry you had to experience that. I guess, people have different ideas of marriage to them. However, regardless of how they envision marriage, both still need to work at it in order for it to become a successful one. One cannot hold the marriage all by themselves.


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## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

jld said:


> Are you in counseling?


Here and there. I was in for about six months. It's just very expensive and I am pulled financially for the legal fees right now, so I had to cut back. The therapist said I am on good footing. I just need to accept that the marriage is over and stop looking for a rational reason for her actions.


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## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

sapientia said:


> There is no point to fight unless you know what you are fighting FOR. In very dysfunctional relationships, status quo is not always worth saving.
> 
> You gotta know when to hold 'em, and know when to fold 'em...


Yea, that is so true. After fighting for so many months, I am folding 'em and cashing out what little chips I still have left.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Almost-Done said:


> Crazy situation. Sorry you had to experience that. I guess, people have different ideas of marriage to them. However, regardless of how they envision marriage, both still need to work at it in order for it to become a successful one. One cannot hold the marriage all by themselves.


Her version of marriage is very different than mine. To her it is a convenient arrangement for the benefit of the individual. She also, apparently, thought of the marriage vows as quaint but outdated, something one repeated as a formality at the ceremony but not really required to understand or abide by.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

It is agonizing. Why can't people just ****ing do what they should be doing? Why is it so hard to just put the effort in if you say that's what you want? I don't get it. The stubborness is absurd. The inability to see the truth, or trying to bend it to fit what they want.

I am in a bad argument right now with the wife. May just be the end, but she out feelers out there via text. After some arguing, I literally wrote to her 3 things that were issues, her next text turned them hyperbolic to the extreme. It's so sad that they have to paint a picture different than the truth to be able to live with the cognitive dissonance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Begin again (Jul 4, 2016)

Almost-Done said:


> Agreed. However, before the separation, just not working on the marriage and giving up? That's normal?


I get what you are asking and I don't think it's normal. It may be a form of control, or self protection/denial. 

At least for me, I wanted to give it an honest effort before I just gave up. I beat the donkey until it was rotting on the ground, but he didn't fight for us. He always said he didn't know what to do or say, but also didn't want me to leave. It was a very unhealthy and confusing time for me, and I know he hated me contunually bringing up what I wanted to be different. 

In the end, I left. All that energy I spent trying to find an angle, a solution, is now focused on my self improvement. I'm much happier now. So, sometimes you have to accept that they won't fight for the marriage in any way. Why? Fear, control, fill in the blank. In the end, it doesn't matter. You have your answer. No choice is a choice. No action is an action. It sucks, but that's life sometimes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

Almost-Done said:


> If a spouse is not going to fight to keep a relationship, why go through the whole process of marriage?


Because one of us was still in love.


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

Almost-Done said:


> Sorry for beating a dead donkey, but I am curious from other people who've gone through marital problems. After you separated or divorced, are you surprised that your spouse didn't fight at all to keep the marriage together? Just looking back and seeing in my mind how I can see each time no interest in working it out. It's very possible that I am very naive in relationships, but I just find it so weird and just strange. If a spouse is not going to fight to keep a relationship, why go through the whole process of marriage?


Wow...I had not thought of this angle.

I have an ex. I finally tired of her growing anger at the entire world and me...there were even times when friends told me I could come over, but please leave her at home because she was so insulting and attacking. I didn't think it right that I just leave without giving her a chance, so I tried bringing up the various issues...in all cases, she waved it away with "you're too sensitive" or "if you don't like it leave" or "if a relationship needs work, it's time to end it". So, when I gave her the news, I just said "I accept your offer. I don't like it the way it is, so I'm leaving." She begged, she pleaded she asked "why are you leaving?" so I said what I'd been saying for years and she said "well, that's a stupid reason to leave".

But now...my wife...who is nothing like my ex (non-wife)...she's not mean, she doesn't attack...she doesn't do anything. She doesn't appear to want to be around me, but is very much upset if I don't do "chores" that she thought I knew she wanted done even though she didn't say anything about them. In the year of counseling, I've asked her "why are we married" and even, dangerously, "Why haven't you divorced me" and the only forthcoming answer is income.

So...if I file...which I don't want to do...I seriously doubt she'll fight for the marriage. But I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't fight tooth and nail for every penny she could get.


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

Lostme said:


> When something feels out of sorts to me, and I bring it up to my H he is clueless and it's not that he does not care it is because he does not see it. But when I bring it up he acknowledges and makes changes. As do I with him, people can get so caught up in life and the routine that they don't always notice things.
> 
> Folks can be pretty clueless, that is why communication is so important.


This sounds so *healthy* to me!!!!

My wife tries to bring things up, but she brings up "events" that bothered her - years after they happened, so I have no memories at all of the event, and therefore, have no chance of doing anything about it. She's got so much fear in her that the prospect of saying anything that sounds other than positive scares her into complete silence. Based on what her family and friends from way back tell me, this is how she's always been. Poor thing.


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## Shanna7243 (Aug 12, 2016)

I am on the other end. I want it to work so so badly. For 6 months I have done things daily to try and repair. I made a very dumb decision last night (after getting very little in return on my husbands part) to message with my ex, and told him I missed him and dream of him. Husband found the messages and now it's like I am the bad guy. What I did was stupid, and I apologized up and down, but I can't change it, and I have felt so alone for so long now - I was just reaching at anything!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

Thor said:


> Her version of marriage is very different than mine. To her it is a convenient arrangement for the benefit of the individual. She also, apparently, thought of the marriage vows as quaint but outdated, something one repeated as a formality at the ceremony but not really required to understand or abide by.


Wow. I wonder if she uses the same playbook as my wife. Mine picked which marriage traditions she liked, and ignored the others. Mainly because she's a modern independent woman. Where do we find these gems? They have one personality while dating, then after the ring, completely morphed into another woman. It's like I had to take a double take. All she'd say, we have issues. Can we talk about them? There's nothing to talk about right now. I cannot talk to you..


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## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

Herschel said:


> It is agonizing. Why can't people just ****ing do what they should be doing? Why is it so hard to just put the effort in if you say that's what you want? I don't get it. The stubborness is absurd. The inability to see the truth, or trying to bend it to fit what they want.
> 
> I am in a bad argument right now with the wife. May just be the end, but she out feelers out there via text. After some arguing, I literally wrote to her 3 things that were issues, her next text turned them hyperbolic to the extreme. It's so sad that they have to paint a picture different than the truth to be able to live with the cognitive dissonance.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not sure. Everything seems rational to them I guess in their minds. To us, it's like another person is inhibiting our wives. It's unreal. They believe it so much that it must be true. I am sure you have dozens of examples. Again, it's just unreal. I've never experienced this before. Someone actually making things up to reenforce her beliefs.


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## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

Begin again said:


> I get what you are asking and I don't think it's normal. It may be a form of control, or self protection/denial.
> 
> At least for me, I wanted to give it an honest effort before I just gave up. I beat the donkey until it was rotting on the ground, but he didn't fight for us. He always said he didn't know what to do or say, but also didn't want me to leave. It was a very unhealthy and confusing time for me, and I know he hated me contunually bringing up what I wanted to be different.
> 
> ...


It has to be a control issue, I agree. Since she cannot control anything else in the marriage (aside from sex, which she killed and thus started a death walk for the divorce), so since there is something I want to work towards, then she can control the outcome. It must be a subconscious thing.

It seems you've tried and fought to get your spouse to communicate, but they just didn't care enough to fight for the marriage. My question to all of these spouses who gives up, why did you get married then? It amazes me how people just walk away from marriage. They say they want a commitment, but when the rubber meets the road, they bail.


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## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

spotthedeaddog said:


> Because one of us was still in love.


I'd hope they'd both be in love. That is the only reason to marry. People are supposed to be looking for a life partner, not just for a few years and then jet. That that is what they want to do, then that is fine, but why get married then? Kind of pointless. If we weren't married, then we could had just walked away w/o the State getting involved.


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## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

spotthedeaddog said:


> Because one of us was still in love.





DustyDog said:


> Wow...I had not thought of this angle.
> 
> I have an ex. I finally tired of her growing anger at the entire world and me...there were even times when friends told me I could come over, but please leave her at home because she was so insulting and attacking. I didn't think it right that I just leave without giving her a chance, so I tried bringing up the various issues...in all cases, she waved it away with "you're too sensitive" or "if you don't like it leave" or "if a relationship needs work, it's time to end it". So, when I gave her the news, I just said "I accept your offer. I don't like it the way it is, so I'm leaving." She begged, she pleaded she asked "why are you leaving?" so I said what I'd been saying for years and she said "well, that's a stupid reason to leave".
> 
> ...



Seems like your friends tried to warn you about your ex. My friends are/we her's, so I am a bit out of luck with that. Your wife is just making excuses and trying to start an argument cause she feeds her ego and pride off of that type of stimulation. I used to do that too. Then, I stopped playing her games. She'd say horrible things, I'd just say, I see and I understand your frustration. I could see her blood boiling that she wasn't getting a rise out of me any longer. Ironically, we started to communicate less and less since she wasn't receiving the food to feed her anger and pride (my negative reactions). 

Question. Are you happy? It's either yes or no. Can you live in the current situation until she bites the bullet and files? If both are no, then file. The longer you wait, the more she gets. I would suggest getting a separate bank account and move half the money into that account so she cannot drain your account. Consider it a divorce fund and save to hire the best lawyer you can buy. Mine was a short marriage, but I saw all the best lawyers in the metro area (according to avvo.com and martindale.com) so she couldn't hire any of them. I also picked one of them to represent me. I suggest you do the same if you feel like you're going down divorce street. It is always best to file first as you can control the direction of the divorce; should you select this option.


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## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

Shanna7243 said:


> I am on the other end. I want it to work so so badly. For 6 months I have done things daily to try and repair. I made a very dumb decision last night (after getting very little in return on my husbands part) to message with my ex, and told him I missed him and dream of him. Husband found the messages and now it's like I am the bad guy. What I did was stupid, and I apologized up and down, but I can't change it, and I have felt so alone for so long now - I was just reaching at anything!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Have you tried counseling? This is a pretty big betrayal. Your husband may feel like you do not like or lust for him any longer. His mind may be racing on all sorts of things. You'll have to earn back his trust and respect if you truly want it. It will not be easy and it may end in failure, but since you didn't do anything, then there is salvation. However, it will take work on both you and your husband to fix this marriage.


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## Shanna7243 (Aug 12, 2016)

Almost-Done said:


> Have you tried counseling? This is a pretty big betrayal. Your husband may feel like you do not like or lust for him any longer. His mind may be racing on all sorts of things. You'll have to earn back his trust and respect if you truly want it. It will not be easy and it may end in failure, but since you didn't do anything, then there is salvation. However, it will take work on both you and your husband to fix this marriage.




We started counseling a few months ago (only 3 sessions though and he cancelled our last one because of work) I am hoping he will go back with me to counseling next week, but he is rightfully very upset with me right now. I know his mind is racing and I have tried to let him know that it was once, it will never happen again, that I'm not going to drink anymore, that I am incredibly sorry, and that I just want to be with him - I was stupid and reaching out because of my loneliness in our marriage, but that's still not an excuse.
I know it is only the beginning of a very long road, but I pray to God that one day he will forgive me. I do not want this to end.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Almost-Done said:


> Sorry for beating a dead donkey, but I am curious from other people who've gone through marital problems. After you separated or divorced, are you surprised that your spouse didn't fight at all to keep the marriage together? Just looking back and seeing in my mind how I can see each time no interest in working it out. It's very possible that I am very naive in relationships, but I just find it so weird and just strange. *If a spouse is not going to fight to keep a relationship, why go through the whole process of marriage?*


*My thought process exactly! 

When my RSXW's thuggish, loutish, dope headed kids showed no respect for her other than going to her to either "borrow" or outright steal money right out of her purse to satiate their "fix!" 

I was always pi$$ed that her kids didn't give a crap and did their acts right in the presence of my own kids. Whenever my complaining to her fell on deaf ears and she placated those needs under the mantra that, "well I'd rather have them partying here at home rather than off somewhere else where they might get busted," was when I flat quit trying to do anything about my relationship with her.

The straw that broke the proverbial camels back was when she was gardening out in the yard one morning and found a hemp sapling growing out of the ground and pulled it right up out of the ground and handed it to her oldest son right in front of me, telling him that "Christmas comes early!"

I pretty much laid it on the line that either her juvenile delinquent convicts in-home habits changed or they got their worthless a$$es out of the house, or I would!

Sadly, as I later found out, she chose the latter by going out of town to covertly hump two different men from her past!

*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

jld said:


> It could just be that they respect your decision, and don't want to be controlling in any way.


Maybe sometimes.
Other times its is due to a total absence of respect, in that they feel you or the marriage is not worth the effort. Sadly many spouses don't recognize the difference while they attempt to go through the motions.


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## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

Shanna7243 said:


> We started counseling a few months ago (only 3 sessions though and he cancelled our last one because of work) I am hoping he will go back with me to counseling next week, but he is rightfully very upset with me right now. I know his mind is racing and I have tried to let him know that it was once, it will never happen again, that I'm not going to drink anymore, that I am incredibly sorry, and that I just want to be with him - I was stupid and reaching out because of my loneliness in our marriage, but that's still not an excuse.
> I know it is only the beginning of a very long road, but I pray to God that one day he will forgive me. I do not want this to end.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Is there a neutral and safe party that both you and your husband can talk to? Maybe that would make him open up more. As you can see, this moment of weakness hurt your husband a lot. It makes or is making him question your love for him. You both need to work on reestablishing that relationship connection.


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## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

Pluto2 said:


> Maybe sometimes.
> Other times its is due to a total absence of respect, in that they feel you or the marriage is not worth the effort. Sadly many spouses don't recognize the difference while they attempt to go through the motions.


I read in a book that once trust and respect is gone, it is nearly impossible to get back. Heaven knows that I've tried to discuss it with her, but it was like pulling teeth. When she doesn't want to cooperate, then there is no luck. I am sure I am not the only one who's been in this. An uncommunicative spouse is a recipe for disaster. I would ask her why she would feel this way, all I get is I trust no one but myself. I trust my parents, but with only certain things. I can only depend on myself. If I knew she felt this way, I wouldn't of entered into a relationship with her; let alone marriage. Everything was hunky dory before marriage, then the crap hit the fan fairly soon after. Just cannot wrap my head around why. She'd give me one answer and her parents and friends two other completely different answers to the same questions.


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## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

arbitrator said:


> *My thought process exactly!
> 
> When my RSXW's thuggish, loutish, dope headed kids showed no respect for her other than going to her to either "borrow" or outright steal money right out of her purse to satiate their "fix!"
> 
> ...


Very strange. Why would a person act like that? It's clearly an emotional response with little to no logical basis. She had to of known on some level that this behavior is not good. The pot plant is a bit much. Was it perhaps a joke to gauge your reaction?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Almost-Done said:


> Very strange. Why would a person act like that? It's clearly an emotional response with little to no logical basis. She had to of known on some level that this behavior is not good. The pot plant is a bit much. Was it perhaps a joke to gauge your reaction?


*Perhaps, but her dope-headed son just smiled, stuck it in his pocket, and said "I'll smoke it later!"*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shanna7243 (Aug 12, 2016)

Almost-Done said:


> Is there a neutral and safe party that both you and your husband can talk to? Maybe that would make him open up more. As you can see, this moment of weakness hurt your husband a lot. It makes or is making him question your love for him. You both need to work on reestablishing that relationship connection.




Agreed! We used to have good friends for that, but they recently moved away (about a month ago). We were going to counseling, and I'm going to schedule another session as soon as I can, but I'm not sure if he'll join me. I am going to hope and pray he will. That's all I can do. Even if he doesn't go, I know I will.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Almost done, 

Have you ever discussed why she married and divorced her first husband? What happened in that relationship. Also FOO, what was her parents marriage like? 

She could have a problem with attaching and forming a deep relationship with a husband. 

It could be depression resulting in deep despair. 

It could be both caused by FOO issues or a trauma in her teens. 

She has shut you out. There is nothing you can do about it except nag which will only drive her futher away. So accept moving on but remind het parents and friends you accept her decision only because it is her's to make. If she wants to discuss changing courcse and opening up to you, you want the marriage.


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## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

arbitrator said:


> *Perhaps, but her dope-headed son just smiled, stuck it in his pocket, and said "I'll smoke it later!"*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Interesting. I cannot fathom a mother or father giving their child drugs. Depending on where they live, it may not be decriminalized yet. Also depends on how big the plant is/was. Strange.


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## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

Shanna7243 said:


> Agreed! We used to have good friends for that, but they recently moved away (about a month ago). We were going to counseling, and I'm going to schedule another session as soon as I can, but I'm not sure if he'll join me. I am going to hope and pray he will. That's all I can do. Even if he doesn't go, I know I will.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I would try and have a heart to heart with your spouse in a non-confrontational manner. Stating you want to work on the marriage and get both of you back on good terms. Take baby steps. Try to also be loving and supportive. You need to build the relationship back from the ground floor up. If he wants this as much as you do, then he'll join in and work on the marriage with you.


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## Almost-Done (Mar 5, 2016)

JohnA said:


> Almost done,
> 
> Have you ever discussed why she married and divorced her first husband? What happened in that relationship. Also FOO, what was her parents marriage like?
> 
> ...


Only briefly discussed her first marriage and divorce. Said he raided their bank accounts, spent lots of money on materialistic junk to keep up with the Jones'. She also said he was yelling and aggressive towards her (nothing physical, never touched her). Who know's if this is true. I looked him up on FB and he seemed pretty happy with his new wife and three little kids (one just born). 

As soon as we were having the issues, her therapist suggested a trial seperation. I originally didn't agree, but then she said her parents were separated for over 2 years and then got back together. Of course, I learn this after marriage. Her parents have an interesting relationship. The mother works mornings and days, the father works days and nights. She works from 9am - 5pm (or so). He works from 5pm - 1am. On Fridays and Saturdays he's usually out with his friends, unless his precious daughter comes by. If not, then all three of them (and me up until the separation) had Sunday dinner.

I tried for over a year to turn the tide and rebuild our marriage. My therapist suggested we build the relationship from the ground floor up. Basically like dating. I tried to setup date nights, she refused. Night on the city in New York, she fused. Theater tickets, she refused. A trip to any place she would like to go, she refused. During separation, she refused to do anything aside from text. After four months of that, I filed for divorce. If I told the board some of the things she said to her mother and father about me/us; everyone would be shocked. I will say, we've not been intimate in over a year and a half. A year ago, she told me to find my sexual fix outside the marriage, just don't tell me. :surprise::surprise::surprise: That broke my heart. 

In the famous words of Dr. Leonard McCoy, it's dead Jim.


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