# My story - EA - > PA ?



## wonderif

Me late 40s, her late 30s. 2 Kids 6 and 3. Married 12 years. She left high powered job exactly 2 years ago to be a SAHM. Wife used to be a 9 and is now an 8, is fit and has an amazing figure still. I am fit and well dressed. I still turn heads and get lots of smiles and flirts. I make upper six figures as an executive VP and will be a CEO one day. I am almost always home by 7 and usually put the kids to bed. Other than my long hours from time to time, we have a good life. I have never cheated on her and have not even come close - despite quite a PUA life prior to our marriage. 

About 20 months ago I got a gut feeling that something was not right and started focusing on her behavior. 

She would wear a t-shirt to bed and shorts. Prior to this, even with kids running in, she would wear nothing to bed. She also slept on her side of the bed, and not draped across me like before. She also was abrupt with me in the morning and the calls and texts during the day had dropped off to little or nothing. She began to come home later and later from some volunteer work she does. 36 months ago she would be home no later than nine whereas she would come home at 10 or 10:30. She would also come home from her sport later and later. She spent a lot of time texting and emailing. She became short with the kids and me. She also started a weird conversation one date night, "I could not have an affair. My face would give me away."

About six months ago she spent a week or two sleeping on the couch. It became very difficult to seduce her whereas before I could just kiss her neck and we have our usual romp. At the time she would still get her O but about 4 months ago she stopped getting O's at all with me. ( I have never been with a woman has not gotten off at least once per session. ) At night if I rolled over and tried to hug her, she would push me off if she was asleep. If she was awake, she would tense up. She would also get out of bed and go in the living room a lot. During one of these times, I got a hunch and looked for her sex toys. Both were missing. The next day they were back. 

About this same time, we were invited to a party with her team, but the coach was not invited. I found this very strange, as he had been at the other parties. She did not bring this up and when I did, she was silent. I started going to some games and noticed that the coach was very lively with her until I showed up un-announced. His face changed to a mask. And another time she needed something from him and he raced over to bring it to her, and when he saw me, the mask came down. Also she stepped away from me when she saw him and stood between us, forming a triangle. 

When I saw her form the triangle, I decided to look at her phone and emails. I saw that while all us - family and friend's texts ran back to May, she had deleted his. She only had a few days' worth on her phone. On top of this, the ones there included from him, "Sorry I could not walk you to the car." and "Sorry about last Tuesday..best laid plans...", both on nights when she had practice. I monitored her phone for two more weeks and his texts were deleted several times a week. 

Two more events stand out. One, a new player came on the team. This woman is cute and was also flirting with the coach. My wife came home livid about it. On top of this she came home one night saying that her coach's boss had told him that someone had said they were having an affair and that her coach had to clean things up. Another weird thing occurred - at one game a male friend of a friend came up and asked who I was. He thought the coach and my wife were married...

About two months ago we had our anniversary. I did a pretty good job and really surprised her. However, on the way downtown, she remarked on a piece of architecture saying he liked it and she did not. She went on and on about how he and his wife had gone somewhere to eat and gotten in a discussion on it. She is not into architecture and she mentioned some details about the restaurant that seemed to familiar. The rest of the night was actually pretty good for a change. Until the next day. She was pretty upset. 

I took the time to write out all the timelines and began reading this site. 

Fast forward two weeks later. We went to a charity event associated with her sport. The coach was not there but the boss was. She had a lot to drink and a good time. One the way home we got pretty hot with each other - but had to stop for something. She was texting someone and laughing. I had to take sitter home as well. We had sex but she did not have an O despite being VERY frisky on the way home. 

When I looked at her phone the next day, the texts were gone. I then got a text retrieval tool and recovered the texts and email on her phone. 

She had flirted with the coach while we were driving home and had continued to do so while I was taking the sitter home. I recovered those texts to the history but not the message. I then confronted her the next day. 

She said that she was drunk, etc. That he was just a friend. Etc. A few days later she quizzed me about what I did at the party. (I thinks he thinks I talked to the coach.) I also found out that she had some long email exchanges with him the day after the confrontation..

We had a long talk - several in fact - and went back to her counselor from her first marriage. We also had some amazing sex. But she would alternate between being sweet to me to being very distant over the next weeks. I also noticed she began to clean her tracks - deleting his emails and locked her phone and changed her pwds. I monitor her history - she still goes out and searches her deleted emails for his - they do not show up at all otherwise..and reads through them. The days she does this she is very distant that night. I have not brought up anything I cannot say she has showed me. Since the confrontation, their texts have dropped off and so have the emails. On top of this, other than one night when she lied about coming home and then running into traffic (gps tracker ) she has been very punctual. 

We have had some long talks about her relationship with the coach. She now admits that she liked him. She now admits that some days are harder than others. She still maintains that not much happened. 

I find that hard to believe given that she re-reads his emails still - over a month after the confrontation. 

I have read some of the books listed on here. I have also told her that I do not like it that she likes him. But have not gone so far as to demand an NC - which would be VERY hard to explain as she is on a highly ranked team and has a lot of friends and our kids are in the early stages of the sport. 

Our sex life has returned and we go to counselling together every other week. We do talk a lot and she calls me and texts me more now. She did have a breakdown on her not reading his emails when I was on my last day of my business trip this week.

Please keep in mind that I am nobody's fool and am fully aware that this was a full blown EA despite her denials. I know it could have been a PA as well but the logistics would be very hard unless it was very well planned. As an executive I am used to changing peoples' minds and getting them to happily do my bidding. 

What I am looking for is commentary - from her perspective and from the perspective of men who have gotten their wives to come clean and to become happy again - either via a D or by a true R. 

I am greatly pained by her anguish. I sense she has a lot of guilt and a lot of longing. I want to reach her and help her through this while reaching a resolution.


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## TDSC60

As you know it was and still is an EA at the very least. As long as she is in contact with him in anyway she will remain addicted to him,

Understand that you are #3 on her list of priorities now.
#1 - Her selfishness and addiction.
#2 - Him.

You have to stop all contact now and forever. No seeing, meeting, texting, calling, emailing or going back and re-reading old ones or she will never truly commit to you.

I think a PA is very likely. Do not under estimate the abilities of a pair of cheaters to hide communication and time spent together.

What is more important to you, her highly ranked team or your marriage? It looks to me like one of those has to go.


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## harrybrown

Get a VAR and put one in her car. Have you considered a PI?

Talk to the coach's boss and also is the coach married?

Have you asked her for a lie detecter test? 

Did she use protection and has she been tested for stds?

Do you have spyware on her phone? 

I would suggest filing for divorce. She has gone PA with him.


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## workindad

If you want more information, definitely get the VAR.


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## TDSC60

I second the VAR for her car - that is where most cheaters talk- and one for any place in the home that you have noticed her going "for a private conversation". What kind of phone does she have? There are ways to recover text messages.

If she uses a computer, get a good keylogger.

Edit: Do not be too confident in your executive powers of persuasion in this situation. This is unlike anything you have faced in your career.


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## wonderif

I monitor her phone and laptop and the house phone. Most days she has the kids with her. the search of her phone revealed a few calls but mostly texts. Other than that drunken night, no other sexts. 

Coach is married. 

I have considered a PI but rejected it. It would take me too long to find the right person and I know a lot of LEOs and PMC types. PI is too close to home. I can put the dots together. Like I said, I know her logistics. 

No on protection. She has not been on the pill since our first kid was conceived. 

Problem with team is that her dad is high up in the governing organization as well. She'd have to come clean to him. She has always derived pleasure from her sport. I have thought about asking her to switch teams. She has gotten some offers lately.


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## wonderif

Appreciate the comments, but want more insight into what she is going through - her internal dialogue and such.


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## Daisy10

This story reads like the movie "Unfaithful", except without the murder.

From what I read here, the way to put a stop to it is to expose to the OMW.

How to get her to stop longing for him? I don't know. Hopefully it just goes away with time.

She will probably always have guilt. Keep up the counseling.


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## Bugz Bunny

The sooner you accept that it is/was a PA the sooner you will be able to come out of your BS fog and deal with the cheater in your house...

And no it was not only an EA and deep down inside you,you know it too...

*She would wear a t-shirt to bed and shorts*

This my friend in translation is a 10000 % EA and 90 % PA...

*About six months ago she spent a week or two sleeping on the couch. It became very difficult to seduce her whereas before I could just kiss her neck and we have our usual romp*

And this on screams 1000000000 % PA...


Now you should stop being afraid to investigate...demand her phone and ask why only his texts are deleted and retrieve all the deleted texts from her phone...ask for a polygraph and dont accept and fall for her trying to make you feel guilty about not trusting her.In marriage there is no privacy at such level and someone who doesnt have anything to hide will happily cooperate to prove that he is innocent...

And when you have all your answers then you should decide what your next move should be R or D.

Oh and her saying that she likes him should have been enough for you to demand NC in the first place... and reading his emails must stop.She must delete them...

One more important thing:YOU CAN NOT NICE HER OUT OF HER AFFAIR.NEVER CRY IN FRONT OF HER,NEVER BEG AND NEVER PLEAD...

Good Luck


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## JadedHusband

I tell you what is going through her mind. She wants this guy and he has pushed her away or got spooked. If he wanted her he could have her because youve taken no steps to prevent her from it. There should be consequences for her actions but you are shielding her from them. Rereading emails...that sounds like something a person who was dumped does. Im just guessing here but the person trying their best to end this thing is him. Maybe you should talk to him and ask for advise. She should not be on the same team as him. As long as she is she wont get over him and refocus on her marriage
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bugz Bunny

wonderif said:


> Appreciate the comments, but want more insight into what she is going through - her internal dialogue and such.


Well what I can tell you in short is that right now she only thinks how to go more underground and how to have her next fix.OM right now is her drug and she will do anything to hide that she is a user and to have her next fix ...Currently you and the kids are not her priority not event close in her top priorities...

How you deal with it...You find evidence,you expose and kill the fantasy that she is living,file for divorce and let her work to earn a chance for R...In the meantime you work on yourself (try 180) and never ever believe that you drove her somehow to the affair...No matter in what state a marriage/relationship is there is never an excuse for cheating...

Good Luck


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## Line In The Sand

TDSC60 said:


> ? There are ways to recover text messages.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> How ?


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## sparzokm

What kind of phone does she have? There are ways to recover text messages.


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## AlphaHalf

> he began to come home later and later from some volunteer work she does. 36 months ago she would be home no later than nine whereas she would come home at 10 or 10:30. She would also come home from her sport later and later. She spent a lot of time texting and emailing. She became short with the kids and me. *She also started a weird conversation one date night, "I could not have an affair. My face would give me away."*



That's a whole lot of time to have a PA. You've "observed" more then enough, (too much IMHO) Now its time for direct action. Expose the affair to the OMW.

What excuse did she give you to justify her sleeping on the couch for two weeks? Why did you let her without getting to the bottom of the situation then? Sleeping on the couch doesn't automatically mean an Affair but it definitely means something is wrong. Wrong enough to not let it slide until you find the truth.


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## warlock07

You say you are a nobody's fool but this looks like a PA to me, or for any unbiased neutral party. This is not even an affair. This looks like a long term relationship.

Just because she is having sex with you doesn't mean she isn't having sex with him. 

In fact, many cheaters(WW) start having more sex with their spouses if they think that the BS is suspicious. Having more sex is a way of sidetracking the issue and obviously it is working for you...


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## InlandTXMM

It's not just an EA. Her detachment from you sexually is a sick way cheaters tend to bond with their AP's. She needed to be sexually faithful to her other man, so she shut things down on you as best she could.

Sorry you are here. This was a full-blown PA.


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## weightlifter

As an executive you can give instructions. Lets see if you are able to take them. 

Here is a plan. Step by step. Play by play.

Execute it.

Please observe rule 1. SHUT UP about it for a bit.

VARs and evidence

Your wife is acting funny. Her phone and email suddenly have passwords you don't know. She shuts down phone apps or changes windows on the computer whenever you enter the room. She is suddenly staying out until 2 to 5 in the morning. She has new single friends. She has lost weight and is dressing hotter to boot. Her ex contacted her 3 weeks ago and she wants “to meet to catch up at some public place” Any of this sound familiar? 

If you are reading this your gut is going crazy. “Relax”, in that there is a high liklihood that you are not crazy at least. “Your gut” is your basic instinct from the caveman period. There is something up with your mate. It is part of your mind built into you and in your DNA. You probably cant sleep. You are losing weight like crazy and are not hungry. Well if you are reading this and that is 90% of you reading this if its your first time... You are embarking on what is probably going to be the worst time of your life.

Chin up, yes I know it is damn near impossible to believe now, but I and the people at TAM here have taken dozens of men through this process. Some reconcile, most dont in the long run so be aware. Most of us hang around this grim grim place for a sense of “pay it forward” and “getting at the truth” Even in divorce, the long run the majority find love again... yes really. Often selecting a far far better future companion. Read poster BFF for a thread of disaster, divorce, recovery, and a new wonderful woman in his life. Younger and hotter, yes, but also one with better boundaries, often a far far better personality match. Oh and they get to go through that first time with her after the first I love you's have been exchanged. Just know, that for the majority, even if the marriage crashes, in six months, a year, maybe two you will wonder how you got so far so fast and how great your new life is. You will also be MUCH MUCH stronger as a person.

So. Here are your instructions. Do this now. I dont mean next week. I mean make something up within the next day and GET IT DONE! Not looking will only prolong your agony.
Rule 1 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 
Rule 2 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 
Rule 3 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 

NO MORE CONFRONTS!! Play dumb husband for a bit. Dont drive her further underground! Soft confronts RARELY WORK AND ONLY MAKE GETTING AT THE TRUTH HARDER!!! THIS PROLONGS YOUR AGONY! NEVER give up you get your intel from the VAR. You tell her, you always got your info from a PI or someone saw them. Hard confronts with overwhelming evidence to crush all resistance are the name of the game.

Buy 2 sony ICDPX312 or ICDPX333 voice activated recorders. Best Buy sells them for like 50 bucks. DO NOT BUY THE cheapies. USE LITHIUM batteries. We have examples of 25 hour recordings using them on these sony recorders. My icon IS a Sony ICDPX312. No I do not have stock in nor work for Sony.

Setup instructions are on page 19. Also good stuff on page 31.
Use 44K bit rate for balancing file size vs quality DO NOT USE 8K!!!!! Simply put. The higher the quality the better the sound and 8K sucks. ALSO. The higher the quality the more you can manipulate the mp3 in Audacity.
Set VOR "on" see page 38
See page 40 for adding memory if necessary
Play with it yourself to get familiar. TEST IT OUT 
Turn off the beep feature. Its on one of the menus. You can even play prevent defense by going to a dollar store, buying uber-cheapie earbuds, cut off the buds but put in the jack which will actually disable the speaker for additional protection.

Go to Walmart and buy heavy duty velcro.
This is one item: Velcro Heavy-Duty Hook and Loop Fastener VEK90117: Office : Walmart.com
also
Purchase VELCRO Hook and Loop Fasteners, Sticky-Back, for less at Walmart.com. Save money. Live better.
The velcro is usually in the fabric section or less often in the aisle with the fasteners like screws. The velcro pack is mostly blue with a yellow top. Clear pack shows the vecro color which is black or white. 

Use the velcro to attach the var under her seat UP INSIDE. SECURE IT WELL!!!!!! So well even a big bump wont knock it off. attach one side HD velcro from Walmart to back. USE BIG PIECE
attach other side HD velcro again UP INSIDE car seat. 

ATTACH THE CRAP out of it. It needs to stay put going over big potholes or railroad tracks.
I recommend exporting the sound files to your comp. The recorder is very cumbersome for playback.

Put the second VAR in whatever room she uses to talk in when you are not around. If you are a typical man, use your size advantage to put it someplace she cant reach, even on a chair. Beware spring cleaning season if she does it.

Amazon has a pen VAR that can be placed in a purse or other small place to get remote conversations. Yes the pen works.

Usual warning. If you hear another man and perhaps a little kissing or... STOP Listening and have a trusted friend listen and tell you what went on. Knowing she is a cheat will kill you. Hearing her moan while another man is inside her will murder you to your very soul!!!!!! You are not strong enough to hear that. Dont try it. I know what I am talking about in this.

If you need clean up the recordings get Audacity. Its free from the internet. I have used it on var work for others here to remove things like engine noise. If needed, I have done var work for four men here. RDMU is the only one who has released some of the confidentiality. Read his second thread for my reliability and confidentiality. 

Lets be very clear about what the VAR is for and is not for. It will not be court admissible evidence. It is not for the confrontation. IT IS TO GET YOU AHEAD OF THE AFFAIR so you can gain other real evidence by knowing the who and when. NEVER MENTION YOUR VAR EVIDENCE. As far as the cheater is concerned, they were seen by a PI or something NOT your VAR!!

If your wife comes home from an alone time does she immediately change liners, change panties possibly even immediately laundering them?, shower? This can be an after the fact clean up. Amazon sells a semen detection kit called checkmate.

The ezoom GPS has been found to be easy to buy at Radio shack and useful. There is even a locator webpage you can track with.

Look for a burner phone. This is a second phone from a prepay service just used for cheating communications. That is often why wives let the husband "see their phone" The dont use their main phone for cheating purposes.

There is an app out there called teensafe. Its for both Iphone and Android. It monitors texts, GPS and facebook. Needs no jailbreak. Not perfect and delayed but no jailbreak required.

Look for apps on her phone like words with friends. It has a non traceable texting feature.
Here is a list 25 Apps to Help You Cheat On Your Girlfriend | Complex
Rclawson came up with how to get the PW on an ipad
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...eling-my-wife-cheating-me-16.html#post4692714

A poster named Stigmatizer came up with this nice app that appears to give the caller name for iphones:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...y-creepy-happening-my-home-7.html#post4769890

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/4854930-post220.html
Hi rosie!

If he uses chrome or firefox, there is probably a list of saved passwords you can look at. Even if his email isn't saved there, people usually only use a couple of different passwords, so one from the list might work. 

For firefox it's Tools -> Options -> Security -> Saved Passwords

For Chrome it's the little box with three bars in the top right -> Settings - Show advanced settings -> Managed saved passwords


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## convert

^^ do this to the tee

If you want your marriage to work
Gather hard proof and expose to all that is the only way to end their affair.

you said her dad is high up in the organization see if you can get his help.

maybe he could get him to move on


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## harrybrown

She is selfish and likes the attention.

Affairs like the dark and not the light. Shine the light and expose, expose, expose.

How would she feel if you had the affair? Would she be as understanding or take you to the cleaners?


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## LongWalk

I am afraid that your gut feeling is that this was a PA and your selfish DNA genes are not misleading you. The account that you wrote was faithfully done. This will help you to resolve the problems. One problem is you. You are a good provider, good father, good lover, good husband, etc. But is wasn't enough. That hurts. So you will need to restore your self esteem, regardless of how things play out with your wife.

The other problem is your wife and her affair. You do not know if you have merely driven it underground. Also, now that she has had this experience, what is to stop her in the future?

Coaches have an enormous amount of influence because they are connecting the the athlete, i.e., the liminal subconscious hunter gatherer girl/woman who seeks fulfillment through physical contest. He is directly involved in her mind as you are not. Look at all the professional women tennis players who are married or sleep with their coaches. Those women play harder to please their men. She is collaborating closely on the hunt but with another male.

There is another thread Betrayed and Blindsided that you should read. His wife had an affair with her tennis coach. The other women on the team even got angry about it. He attempted the nice guy reconciliation for 6 months and she kept affair going. He is going through pure h€ll now. You may exchange messages with him to gain extra support.

Given that you have driven the affair underground, you are now in the unpleasant role of warden over your wife's heart and vagina. This is very unpleasant. It would be much better to have her come clean and confess to the sexual aspect of the affair because once it came out in the open you could deal with it.

JustGrinding, another poster, did 18 months of forensic work to bust his wife after the affair ended. You can probably recreate the records if you do enough work.

To prevent trickle truth you could file for divorce. Once she gets served and comes crying to you, demand her computer phone and all her passwords (FB, Google, games). You should be able to find evidence of the affair and you certainly can build a timeline. Once you have a dates and facts. You can quiz her. She will not remember everything but you should be able to find holes in her story.

Of course you should invite the coaches wife for coffee so that you can exchange information. Even if she is denial, it will still increase the pressure on the coach.

Some say that it is the WS who bears the responsibility and the AP is just a so-called POSOM/W. I think you should make getting rid of him from the team a goal. Use your business smarts to come up with strategies to drive him away. By defeating him you establish yourself as the alpha dude in your wife's eyes if that matters to you.

Is filing for divorce too severe a measure to employ? Only you can judge. The adage is you have to be prepared to lose your marriage to save it.

In all of this show restraint and dignity, just as you would not let a problem at work become an emotional confrontation, keep your affair busting mode sharp.


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## Pault

Have to agree with Longwalk.

When your guts screaming at you there is little if anything you can do but to listen.The explaination you provide is one that shows that its surely a PA and the body language seen is thats the tell tale sign. The cell with clear discussions and then sudden deletions is a massive concern because thats the evidence - sometimes it isnt what your readng in a text but what you see by the deletions. These often speak truth more than the cheat.

I suspect that if you start the filing process, because even if she admits it theres a powerful change someone else or even the same guy will be along soon, youll see her dive to cover her tracks - geting the cell and computer locked up asap is a real good way to maintain the evidence. That is where she'll head for. BY having the evidence you can demand the passwords etc and get in. If sge wont come clean there are loads of people out there wih the skills to get the details for you, at a cost of course but it will force her in to a corner where you can sat, "be up front or the techie gets the cell and the computer and Ill get everything recovered". 

BTW you may want to look min to some STI checks. If there has been sexual connection with you and the otehr guy theres no saying what could be lurking. As an aside, you could even force her i to having one - then let slip the other guys details so he'll need a check as well. If your w is one of many hes playing with word will soon get about and his ba**s will be nailed to the bar.


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## Dad&Hubby

wonderif said:


> *She also started a weird conversation one date night, "I could not have an affair. My face would give me away."*


I know this is going to sound twisted...but this WAS her admission. It's a very obtuse thought process but basically she was fishing and put the bait out there.

She makes a statement like this to see your reaction because she IS HAVING AN AFFAIR. If you don't react, then she's getting away with it and it absolves her guilt because "you should've figured it out".

In her mind, you either 1. don't care she is and in a screwy way approve of it or 2. don't really know her well enough so you can't be her "true love" and she "deserves true love". In either situation, you have proven to her that it's okay to continue the affair.

Sadly, she is 100% in a PA. Sorry.


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## yeah_right

I'm sorry about your situation. I would expose to the Coach's wife and also out the relationship to the other team members. Sorry, but the marriage comes before the team. Plus, if this is such a high-ranked team they are not going to want their coach focused on nookie more than wins.

You also sound like you have good finances and could afford a PI. Do it. Also VAR the car. Protect yourself. Whether or not you decide on R or D, this relationship needs to end and you need peace of mind. Best of luck to you!


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## U.E. McGill

*My story - EA - &gt; PA ?*

Is anyone else reading into this like I am? 

Two things stick out, one he's proud of his position in life, etc., and as an exec he's skilled at getting those to do his bidding. 

Two, he just wants to understand her, and and help her back on track (I'm paraphrasing). 

This screams "I'm smart and can fix this if I just guide her through this"

OP, as one exec to another let me give you this in terms you'll understand:

If she were an employee, she would be in full probation. She is on the action plan list because "she" ****ed up. You can't "manage" her up on this one. Tell her in no uncertain terms "you ****ed up, you are going to get fired [divorced] if you don't change. "

You can't manipulate her to stop cheating, aka "do my bidding". The sport, the OM, these are all collateral damage. Cut this out of your organization like the cancer it is.


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## InlandTXMM

yeah_right said:


> I'm sorry about your situation. I would expose to the Coach's wife and also out the relationship to the other team members. Sorry, but the marriage comes before the team. Plus, if this is such a high-ranked team they are not going to want their coach focused on nookie more than wins.


That is a really good question: which is more important to the OP and his wife - keeping up appearances and maintaining their social circle, or doing whatever is going to be necessary to save the marriage? Would your wife change teams? Will she be willing to go NC? Will you be willing to change clubs entirely? Risk having friends turn their backs on you both?

OP you don't make it to where you are professionally by turning blind eyes and blushing at the sight of difficulty. You're also likely not a guy who just accepts things as they seem without doing a fair share of due diligence. You have to be able to read between the lines to be an executive.

So read between the lines. You don't need physical time together to be infatuated with someone. You need physical time alone to consummate a romantic / sexual relationship. 

If you read long enough here you will see that affairs happen in every economic condition and every social situation. And yes, we all said, "My wife would NEVER..."

You will also see a pretty common issue of the WS not being honest, even with concrete evidence in front of them, until the consequences are severe enough. Whether that's a polygraph test (where the confession happens in the parking lot before the test), or the divorce papers showing up, or simply her crap smashed into trash bags and laying in the lawn. It has to be real enough and painful enough to shatter the illusory fog affairs thrive in.

It is the nature of a good husband to want to save the marriage at any cost. I know I'd throw myself in front of a moving car to save my wife, as would most of us. But you are instead being run down by a car driven by your wife and the OM. You can't rescue her this time. This one is all on her to fix.

Sadly you are about to face unimaginable pain and anguish when you discover your wife has been sexually intimate with the coach, maybe for a long time. The odds are 90+% it's physical and for quite a while. 

A kind of business contingency plan is in order here. What if she did? What is your next move? How do you gather the evidence you feel you need to either forgive or call it quits? What are the terms, if any, that would enable you to re-establish trust? You need to be willing to accept whatever you find when you lift up the stone and look, and more importantly, you need to have a plan for each possibility.

I wish you the best of luck. I can't imagine all of this during the holidays. God bless you, man.


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## InlandTXMM

*Re: My story - EA - &gt; PA ?*



U.E. McGill said:


> Is anyone else reading into this like I am?
> 
> Two things stick out, one he's proud of his position in life, etc., and as an exec he's skilled at getting those to do his bidding.
> 
> Two, he just wants to understand her, and and help her back on track (I'm paraphrasing).
> 
> This screams "I'm smart and can fix this if I just guide her through this"
> 
> OP, as one exec to another let me give you this in terms you'll understand:
> 
> If she were an employee, she would be in full probation. She is on the action plan list because "she" ****ed up. You can't "manage" her up on this one. Tell her in no uncertain terms "you ****ed up, you are going to get fired [divorced] if you don't change. "
> 
> You can't manipulate her to stop cheating, aka "do my bidding". The sport, the OM, these are all collateral damage. Cut this out of your organization like the cancer it is.


Exactly. OP, I used to tell my managers that we always hire people for what they know, and always fire them for who they are.

You can't change who she is. Only she can do that.


----------



## Pault

*Re: My story - EA - &gt; PA ?*



U.E. McGill said:


> Is anyone else reading into this like I am?
> 
> Two things stick out, one he's proud of his position in life, etc., and as an exec he's skilled at getting those to do his bidding.
> 
> Two, he just wants to understand her, and and help her back on track (I'm paraphrasing).
> 
> This screams "I'm smart and can fix this if I just guide her through this"
> 
> OP, as one exec to another let me give you this in terms you'll understand:
> 
> If she were an employee, she would be in full probation. She is on the action plan list because "she" ****ed up. You can't "manage" her up on this one. Tell her in no uncertain terms "you ****ed up, you are going to get fired [divorced] if you don't change. "
> 
> You can't manipulate her to stop cheating, aka "do my bidding". The sport, the OM, these are all collateral damage. Cut this out of your organization like the cancer it is.


Oh and theres no room for an appeal!

As stated earlier - If you want to stop this then blow it wide open. A coach has certain "boundries" they have to work to. One is not mixing work and pleasure. Hes in aposition of trust? Then hes not trustworthy. If the partners of others that he coaches get to know that hes playing away from home with one of his female charges I suspect the training room door will have a queue a mile long of guys wantting to know if their "lady" is getting extra coaching sessions as well or has been getting them. 

Bust it open and it will leave your W without someone to fall back on . You make your move and lay down the terms of engagement. That is, if you want to repair this relationship.


----------



## InlandTXMM

Affairs thrive in secrecy, OP. That's the naughty thrill of it. It's forbidden fruit.

When the whole world knows you are a cheater, it loses its luster pretty damn fast.

Plus, as a married man, if my wife and yours shared the same coach, I damn well WANT to be warned of a predator at my family's doorstep. I would do no less than let the others know what this man is capable of. I would be furious with you if you let an adulterer loose on my family when you could have said something.


----------



## Hicks

wonderif said:


> I am greatly pained by her anguish. I sense she has a lot of guilt and a lot of longing. I want to reach her and help her through this while reaching a resolution.


ACK!

This is a situation where you have to start acting.. You let this train wreck unravel over a 20 month period. This is not a business transaction. 

Yes, she had sex with him. 99.9% this is guaranteed. The way to find out for sure is to schedule a lie detector test. And, wait for her to confess more in the parking lot. In fact, drive her to the police statoin tonight and tell her you set up the test and make her think you are taking her inside and she will spill her guts.

If she is not remoresful and regretful, then she is still in touch with him and still cheating on you.

If she is reading his emails, then she is still in an affiar and not in your marriage and you should not tolerat this.

She needs to earn her way back into your marriage. Not be given carte blanch to cheat or be selfish. How does she earn her way back into her marriage?

-- she willingly takes a lie detctor test
-- She deletes all his emails
-- She gives you access to her phone, computers, passwords etc.
-- She agress to never contact him again
-- She quits the team and agrees to never participate in mixed sex recreataion again.
-- She sends him a letter of no contact (please research this on this web site)
-- She or you exposes this affair to the team, friends, family, everyone
-- Anything else you require of a wife...


----------



## BetrayedAndBlindsided

Wondering,

Sounds eerily similar to my story. I hate to say it, as I am currently going through hell right now, but she is sleeping with this coach. I would bet half of my money on it (my stbxw's half). 

Everyone that has commented to you is 100% spot on. I am so sorry you are here. I feel absolutely awful for you and I understand what you are dealing with. I am in your shoes - same size - only a few months ahead of you.

Feel free to PM me if you want.


----------



## happyman64

WonderIf

I know you want insight as to how she is thinking but that is hard to give you.

What you need to do is make a decision.

You need the truth. She needs to tell you all that happened. All of it.

Why?

Not to shame her but to get it all out in the open at counseling. You see if you do not know all the truth, and the counselor does not know all the truth then you are all just wasting your time.

And if you do not get all the facts on the table so you all can deal with them then resentment will build on both sides and your wife will go right back to full time cheating and hurting you and your family.

She is still lying to you. Stop letting her. Call her out in front of the counselor. Do it in a constructive way with the counselors help.

Why did her first marriage end?

HM


----------



## lifeistooshort

Perhaps I missed it but it's not clear to me if the coach is involved or particularly interested. It sounds like a lot of ladies flirt with him so maybe your wife is no differentfrom every other woman that gives him attention? How interested he is will impact her thought process.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bryanp

If the roles were reversed do you honestly think she would have accepted such disrespect from you? She has been playing you for a fool. If you do not respect yourself then who will?


----------



## Tall Average Guy

wonderif said:


> Appreciate the comments, but want more insight into what she is going through - her internal dialogue and such.


She is currently a teenage girl and her parents have forbidden her to have anything to do with a boy she sees everyday at school. Sure, she may feel bad about lying to her parents and going against her instructions, but he is more important.


----------



## weightlifter

*Re: My story - EA - &gt; PA ?*



U.E. McGill said:


> Is anyone else reading into this like I am?
> 
> Two things stick out, one he's proud of his position in life, etc., and as an exec he's skilled at getting those to do his bidding.
> 
> Two, he just wants to understand her, and and help her back on track (I'm paraphrasing).
> 
> This screams "I'm smart and can fix this if I just guide her through this"
> 
> OP, as one exec to another let me give you this in terms you'll understand:
> 
> If she were an employee, she would be in full probation. She is on the action plan list because "she" ****ed up. You can't "manage" her up on this one. Tell her in no uncertain terms "you ****ed up, you are going to get fired [divorced] if you don't change. "
> 
> You can't manipulate her to stop cheating, aka "do my bidding". The sport, the OM, these are all collateral damage. Cut this out of your organization like the cancer it is.


It is rare as sh!t to get something so EPIC from a newb here.


----------



## weightlifter

BetrayedAndBlindsided said:


> Wondering,
> 
> Sounds eerily similar to my story. I hate to say it, as I am currently going through hell right now, but she is sleeping with this coach. I would bet half of my money on it (my stbxw's half).
> 
> Everyone that has commented to you is 100% spot on. I am so sorry you are here. I feel absolutely awful for you and I understand what you are dealing with. I am in your shoes - same size - only a few months ahead of you.
> 
> Feel free to PM me if you want.


BAB... LIKE the red part.

OP Read his stuff he went from trying to fix to giving up. You can feel his pain thru the internet.


----------



## Cubby

BetrayedAndBlindsided said:


> Wondering,
> 
> Sounds eerily similar to my story. I hate to say it, as I am currently going through hell right now, but she is sleeping with this coach. I would bet half of my money on it (my stbxw's half).
> 
> Everyone that has commented to you is 100% spot on. I am so sorry you are here. I feel absolutely awful for you and I understand what you are dealing with. I am in your shoes - same size - only a few months ahead of you.
> 
> Feel free to PM me if you want.


Wonderif, B & B is somebody you should pay attention to. Similar situation, and he's handling it very well.

And to add to what everyone else is saying, it's almost certain a PA. You might think logistics would prevent that from happening, but as it's been proven time after time here on this forum, cheaters only need a narrow crack of opportunity to do it. It's a mistake to think a PA isn't likely when the feel-good chemicals are flowing. And right now your wife is drowning in those chemicals.


----------



## the guy

Your wife is getting an emotional need met and its damn exciting having this secret.
The coach is also having his fun even though it only a 10 minute handie after practice.

Sex is the currency your old lady has to pay for the coaches attention or he will find some other chick to seduce.

So your old lady has this exciting, secret texting crap going on and in order to keep it going and loss coach to the hot newbie on the team she upped the pay with 15 minute bj's after practice.

Dude get a PI and see what exactly goes on in his or her car for that short time after practice.

Actually they were spending more then an hour together before you confronted.

Sorry bro but you got a chick that wants to be in her early twenties not her late thirties and good 'ol coach is meeting that need with all the teenage car sex.

To bad her need to feel young again out weighs her guilt.



Man I hope I'm wrong!


----------



## Acabado

The very moment you noticed her change in the underwwear she was already doing him.
Sorry man, it' what it is.


----------



## the guy

May I suggest you put on some jeans and a t-shirt and go down to a dive bar and have a few drinks and then have sex in the parking lot. (or go behind a chuch like I use to when I was a teen)

It sound like she has no problem geting "frisky" in the car...but once you take your old lady home and the reality of her age comes back....she cools down.


----------



## badmemory

Acabado said:


> The very moment you noticed her change in the underwwear she was already doing him.
> Sorry man, it' what it is.


I agree with this OP.

My WW did similar things: 

-She would come home late after "GNO's", then sleep on the couch. 

-Other times she would sleep on the couch because she had a "head ache". 

-She would sometimes sleep in her jeans.

-She'd snuggle up in the covers like a cocoon and roll over on her side.

-If she was already in bed and heard me getting ready to come in the BR, she would immediately turn off her reading light and act like she was asleep.

Looking back, I can't believe how unbelievably stupid I was not to catch on sooner. She had a two year PA.

Don't be as oblivious as I was. At the very least, you have to assume this is a PA, because the odds are it is.


----------



## the guy

badmemory said:


> -She would sometimes sleep in her jeans.


No sh1t...I thought mine only did that!

Sorry for the thread jack but protecting that used vijaja after a "GNO" seems so important to cheating wifes.

I'm sure the same can go for guys also, but my guess its easier to wash off then wash out!


----------



## LongWalk

BnB,

Good that you have come here. You can see immediately that coach's wife should be contacted to bust the affair. That is exactly why you should talk to Dana while her outrage is still relatively fresh.

Also, Wondering you might ask BnB if he was ever proud or supportive of his wife's tennis. Wonder where her rackets are today?


----------



## BetrayedAndBlindsided

Apologies if this is brutal, but I have been dealing with this for 7 months now so it is still a bit raw to me. Here is what is likely going on in her head -

Like TAG said, she is a teenage girl - but a complete spoiled brat teenage girl. It is exciting for a while and that is what matters to her now. She gets moments of pleasure and excitement from him, and financial and family administrative support from you. What do you get out of it? You get her absolute selfishness and lack of respect in return. That is not a good deal for you is it. Doesn't take a soon-to-be-CEO to figure that out. 

I do get it though, as many of our fellow posters will tell you, you just don't want to believe it. Can't happen to you. But it sounds like it has. If you need to prove it to yourself with a GPS device, VAR, or cellphone bills, email hacking, well then by all means do what you have to do. Lord knows it took me six months of torture reading numerous emails and text messages that made me physically ill to accept the hard truth. Tomorrow is one month since I gave up trying to convince her to stop the A.

Sorry to say this about your wife, I know it hurts to hear, but you work your a$$ off, make a really nice living to provide for your family, and this is what she puts you through? She causes you knots in your stomach and heart palpitations every time you see a text message from him, or noticed that the messages were recently deleted and have the ensuing thoughts of what they must have said that go through your head? 

I hate to say it, but it is very likely physical. she has spent nights on the couch? Even my WW never did that. She might feel a little bad and guilt over it, as she should. But not enough to stop. If it hasn't already, it will escalate from ungrateful teenage brat to drug addict - the coach is the syringe, the sex and excitement is the heroine inside the syringe, and you and your family are the ones standing between her and her next fix. When she's an addict, she will do anything to swat you out of the way to get that next fix.

I don't blame you for trying though. You have to try. I may have wasted six months working on my situation, but at least I know in my heart that I did everything I possibly could have, and I can tell my kids that when they get older. But after all that time, I started to feel like an enabler, giving her the time and money to keep her addiction going. And it was hurting me (still is). I hate that feeling. You will too. 

I very much hope I am wrong about her.


----------



## weightlifter

BetrayedAndBlindsided said:


> Apologies if this is brutal, but I have been dealing with this for 7 months now so it is still a bit raw to me. Here is what is likely going on in her head -
> 
> Like TAG said, she is a teenage girl - but a complete spoiled brat teenage girl. It is exciting for a while and that is what matters to her now. She gets moments of pleasure and excitement from him, and financial and family administrative support from you. What do you get out of it? You get her absolute selfishness and lack of respect in return. That is not a good deal for you is it. Doesn't take a soon-to-be-CEO to figure that out.
> 
> I do get it though, as many of our fellow posters will tell you, you just don't want to believe it. Can't happen to you. But it sounds like it has. If you need to prove it to yourself with a GPS device, VAR, or cellphone bills, email hacking, well then by all means do what you have to do. Lord knows it took me six months of torture reading numerous emails and text messages that made me physically ill to accept the hard truth. Tomorrow is one month since I gave up trying to convince her to stop the A.
> 
> Sorry to say this about your wife, I know it hurts to hear, but you work your a$$ off, make a really nice living to provide for your family, and this is what she puts you through? She causes you knots in your stomach and heart palpitations every time you see a text message from him, or noticed that the messages were recently deleted and have the ensuing thoughts of what they must have said that go through your head?
> 
> I hate to say it, but it is very likely physical. she has spent nights on the couch? Even my WW never did that. She might feel a little bad and guilt over it, as she should. But not enough to stop. If it hasn't already, it will escalate from ungrateful teenage brat to drug addict - the coach is the syringe, the sex and excitement is the heroine inside the syringe, and you and your family are the ones standing between her and her next fix. When she's an addict, she will do anything to swat you out of the way to get that next fix.
> 
> I don't blame you for trying though. You have to try. I may have wasted six months working on my situation, but at least I know in my heart that I did everything I possibly could have, and I can tell my kids that when they get older. But after all that time, I started to feel like an enabler, giving her the time and money to keep her addiction going. And it was hurting me (still is). I hate that feeling. You will too.
> 
> I very much hope I am wrong about her.


QFT. BAB knows. Once you get to 30 posts read his account of the destruction of his heart and learn.

Oddly your wife went for another alpha. Often wives of alphas will go for betas to get the soft side needs met.


----------



## BobSimmons

Forgive me while I add my two cents.

What is she thinking? What is her thought processes? Really who could possibly ascertain that? Right now it's conjecture and supposition, even though the evidence seems to be pretty strong pointing towards an affair of some sort.

Here's the thing..from what I read. You said you were nobodies fool, in a high powered job where you can "change people's minds", do you ever feel yourself bringing that into the marriage? Asserting yourself upon her, your opinions and views..here's where I'm going with this and again this is from what you wrote

She left a high powered job to be a SAHM, Safe to say, your wife is probably smart, and has had to give up alot. She's not stupid and she knows you very well. As till now you still haven't got her to reveal what's going on, you're still none the wiser. Whatever this is, she's in control. Whatever she lost with her job, be it the social circle, peers etc, she now has with this team/sport.

I don't get why you rejected the PI? Seems to me one in your position would want a problem resolved quickly especially if it's so close to home and especially since it appears your wife is very good at covering her tracks.


----------



## tom67

BobSimmons said:


> Forgive me while I add my two cents.
> 
> What is she thinking? What is her thought processes? Really who could possibly ascertain that? Right now it's conjecture and supposition, even though the evidence seems to be pretty strong pointing towards an affair of some sort.
> 
> Here's the thing..from what I read. You said you were nobodies fool, in a high powered job where you can "change people's minds", do you ever feel yourself bringing that into the marriage? Asserting yourself upon her, your opinions and views..here's where I'm going with this and again this is from what you wrote
> 
> She left a high powered job to be a SAHM, Safe to say, your wife is probably smart, and has had to give up alot. She's not stupid and she knows you very well. As till now you still haven't got her to reveal what's going on, you're still none the wiser. Whatever this is, she's in control. Whatever she lost with her job, be it the social circle, peers etc, she now has with this team/sport.
> 
> I don't get why you rejected the PI? Seems to me one in your position would want a problem resolved quickly especially if it's so close to home and especially since it appears your wife is very good at covering her tracks.


Someone with your resources should have gotten the PI long ago.
It sounds like he wants to do it his way.
I wish him luck with that.


----------



## wonderif

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BetrayedAndBlindsided

tom67 said:


> Someone with your resources should have gotten the PI long ago.
> It sounds like he wants to do it his way.
> I wish him luck with that.



Tom, 
You have to sympathize with him. No PI yet because he is very likely afraid of what he will find. I was for a very long time. And even after I found the truth, and kept finding it and finding it...it still is not easy to accept. I have seen many things that made me physically ill - it is burnt in my head and I can never un-see it.

Give him time, he will do the right thing.

Wonderif, some of the posters here may come off brutally honest, but they just want you to see through the muck, to see through your own fog.


----------



## wonderif

Thanks for replies. The control thing hits home. She is an Alpha too and gave up a lot to be a sahm. She has worked all her life and supported herself since she was 16. 

The coach is beta. But gets a lot of attention from girls and wives. He has a way with words and a poetic bent but he is not ****y nor dominant. He came into coaching later in life. She has mentioned wanting to help him. Her prior marriage was to a man who was an Alpha and a pua but who also was a drunk who needed fixing. She left him after six years when he began to get violent.


Please supply a link to bnb posts.

If its a PA that does not bother me as much as the closing off and the lies. Lying about the sext session that night. Lying about being late.

As for PI. My family and hers is military and law enforcement heavy. I have a lot of friends who are FBI and PIs. That would be too close to home. One elected official too. Do not want this to go weird.

I have everything monitored except for a VAR.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CaptainLOTO

From my personal experience you may get closer to the truth if she:

1. Believes that you will not leave her if she tells you the truth
2. That she is hurting herself and you by continuing to lie
3. That you already think worse than whatever reality is and plan to act and treat her in accordance with your own imaginative "worst case" until she comes clean.
4. Your therapist may help her understand that any reconciliation is a fiction until she has been completely honest and that she is damaging herself until she is completely honest.

After all the evidence collecting was done and my wife was thoroughly busted, the combination of the items above caused her to come clean and feel safe at explaining herself. But...

The other thing to remember is that when your wife is in her "affair fog" her behavior, motivations and emotions are very irrational. If and when she really decides to come clean, she'll struggle to remember the real feelings she was having. You'll listen and even when she's doing her best to be honest, it will likely sound untrue because it won't be rational and it will change each time she tells it.

Think of it as though you're trying to retell a story from when you were very drunk. Even if you really want to tell the truth, it's hard because your brain wasn't normal. As you retell that same story, details might get filled in and your sober brain will try to rationalize and explain things. Suddenly the revised, rationalized version starts to seem like the truth but might sound very different than the first time you told the same story.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Perhaps being a sahm is not for her? It wasn't for me either, but sometimes women get it drummed into their heads that they're letting someone else raise their children so they feel pressured to do it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## river rat

wonderif said:


> Appreciate the comments, but want more insight into what she is going through - her internal dialogue and such.


 Wonderif, my first comment is that this situation walks like a duck, therefore.... Her internal dialogue is one of conflict in which she is weighing her options- you and your family vs him and the fantasy life they'd have together, and the guilt that she surely must feel at this point. I agree with the others here- do whatever it takes to bust this thing open, VAR, PI, whatever. That will allow you to eventually achieve some closure, whatever that means to you. If you do not, you will always live with the uncertainty. It will cause you immeasurable pain. You can work through that, but the process will be excruciating.


----------



## weightlifter

bnb is in private. gotta make it to 30 posts


----------



## lewmin

wonderif,

I feel for you but if you continue down the same path you are taking (no VAR, no PI, no exposure to OMW and family) it will continue but just be underground. And it will just go on and on and on...perhaps fade somewhat at times then back on full force with the affair partner. And she will continue to be in that fog.....and you can't pull her out unless you do something about it. 

And btw you know it is a full-fledged emotional and physical affair. 

I'm like you in a way....an executive making nearly 200K/year who worked hard and was always home on time and attentive, loved my wife was in a career with too much time on her hands.

Once I had the info and I delayed exposing for a few weeks. That is idiotic. When I did fullly expose it's the best decision I made. Yes, your wife may be embarrassed and others in your social circle may be outraged. That's her problem - she caused this, not you. 

Also, his wife need to know. This guy couldn't give a crap about you...so you don't owe him or your wife anything.


----------



## LongWalk

CaptainLoto's number 3 is the key reason that filing for divorce is an effective means of driving home the need to come clean. The willingness of the OP to seek divorce over a EA implies that he does not believe that it was just an EA. 

Furthermore, trickle truth, as OP notes, is an additional deal killer. JustGrinding's letter to his WW expresses this brilliantly.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## wonderif

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## yeah_right

If I were the Coach's wife, I would really want to know. Please don't let her suffer in the dark.


----------



## happyman64

wonderif said:


> Thanks for replies. The control thing hits home. She is an Alpha too and gave up a lot to be a sahm. She has worked all her life and supported herself since she was 16.
> 
> The coach is beta. But gets a lot of attention from girls and wives. He has a way with words and a poetic bent but he is not ****y nor dominant. He came into coaching later in life. She has mentioned wanting to help him. Her prior marriage was to a man who was an Alpha and a pua but who also was a drunk who needed fixing. She left him after six years when he began to get violent.
> 
> 
> Please supply a link to bnb posts.
> 
> If its a PA that does not bother me as much as the closing off and the lies. Lying about the sext session that night. Lying about being late.
> 
> As for PI. My family and hers is military and law enforcement heavy. I have a lot of friends who are FBI and PIs. That would be too close to home. One elected official too. Do not want this to go weird.
> 
> I have everything monitored except for a VAR.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Get the VAR. It will give you much clearer insight to how your wife is thinking by what she says to others, even close GF's or the OM. 

If she has handsfree you will get to hear both sides of the conversation.

It is better than most PI's.


----------



## tom67

happyman64 said:


> Get the VAR. It will give you much clearer insight to how your wife is thinking by what she says to others, even close GF's or the OM.
> 
> If she has handsfree you will get to hear both sides of the conversation.
> 
> It is better than most PI's.


VAR is the way to go.
Well you may have to take a day off and follow her you know her routine best.


----------



## wonderif

Catching up from holiday and trip. Just pulled her phone logs for last two weeks. They texted and from texts it clear that they talked about situation. He asked her why she was having a bad day in match... if it was same subject from talk last week...she said yes..then said he was very sorry. Next opportunity for them to talk after that text was the day she lied about traffic delaying her. She had a two hour talk with a close female friend as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## kristin2349

Law enforcement, political officials, FBI have seen it all. Surely you know that and know someone willing to be discreet. 

Having to use a VAR is dreadful but must be done. In my case I found out it was much more tame than I thought. It's rare from what I've learned and read but it happens.


----------



## weightlifter

Cmon dude. I gave you the plan step by step. I can not go to Best Buy for you.


----------



## InlandTXMM

weightlifter said:


> Cmon dude. I gave you the plan step by step. I can not go to Best Buy for you.


Another OP desperately trying to see what he wants to see.


----------



## LostViking

Willful blindness.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## wonderif

Thanks for the entertainment guys.

Reading Dr Glass' book together. Damn I'm good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## InlandTXMM

wonderif said:


> Thanks for the entertainment guys.
> 
> Reading Dr Glass' book together. Damn I'm good.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Did you just say this was all posted in fun?


----------



## Janky

InlandTXMM said:


> Did you just say this was all posted in fun?


Appears that way, wtf?


----------



## 6301

I think we got someone who thinks he's one step ahead of everyone else. 

Well that's fine and dandy but I know I'm not the one whose life is getting turned up side down. 

Your getting some good advice here and for some reason you think your way is better and if that's the case then keep going down the road your going and it will only get worse but just remember that Wylie Coyote considered himself a genius too and how many times did he fall off the cliff or blow himself up. Just sayin'.


----------



## Janky

6301 said:


> I think we got someone who thinks he's one step ahead of everyone else.
> 
> Well that's fine and dandy but I know I'm not the one whose life is getting turned up side down.
> 
> Your getting some good advice here and for some reason you think your way is better and if that's the case then keep going down the road your going and it will only get worse but just remember that Wylie Coyote considered himself a genius too and how many times did he fall off the cliff or blow himself up. Just sayin'.


From the posts, I felt like I was reading a John Grisham book.


----------



## Differentguy

I don't understand the "entertainment value". I wish I was here for the entertainment, not for the soul crushing pain I'm going through. But hey, at least you had some fun, right guy?


----------



## wonderif

I realize the topic of this sub forum evokes a lot of pain in everyone on here. 

But I like to laugh even when things are bad while keeping a positive focus. 

I do appreciate the responses .. Both the ones on topic and the rest. 

I could easily corner her and interrogate her in the traditional sense. But that is counterproductive.

I am about half way through her trickle truths. She has confessed to an EA but still denies the PA as well as discussing the discovery with him. We talk for two hours every night and every night she goes further.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thorburn

wonderif said:


> I realize the topic of this sub forum evokes a lot of pain in everyone on here.
> 
> But I like to laugh even when things are bad while keeping a positive focus.
> 
> I do appreciate the responses .. Both the ones on topic and the rest.
> 
> I could easily corner her and interrogate her in the traditional sense. But that is counterproductive.
> 
> I am about half way through her trickle truths. She has confessed to an EA but still denies the PA as well as discussing the discovery with him. We talk for two hours every night and every night she goes further.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The TT phase sucks. Keep at it.


----------



## Dyokemm

"I could easily corner her and interrogate her in the traditional sense. But that is counterproductive."

Why would ending this game playing and directly and simply getting to the truth of this situation you find your M in be counterproductive?

I think most people would argue that the constant frustration of TT and the continuous lying/gaslighting are far more counterproductive to eventually being able to R.


----------



## Stronger-now

This sounds so iffy to me.

Money should not be a problem, but can't get PI because of X. Can't get VAR because of Y. 

But okay...you want to know her thought process? I am a woman, I will take a stab. 

Sleeping in tshirt and shorts: either she just does not want to make an effort with you anymore or an obvious sign to you: no sex tonight.

Sleeping on couch: no sex tonight and she resents sleeping beside you. 

When she worked full time, she came home around 9, now that she is a SAHM, she comes home around 10-10.30?? Come on now. She may as well go back to work, probably she won't have much time to flirt and act like a single woman behind your back. 

She is crushing on him, and you cannot talk her out of it. In fact, the more you try to "talk" her out of it, the more annoying you become. It will remind her of a nagging mother, not a sexy man she doesn't want to lose. 

No orgasm when she used to have at least one: she doesn't find you attractive and it is just a duty sex to shut you up.

Good people on this site have given you the benefit of the doubt no matter how many times they have been burnt by fake posters. 

THE ONLY WAY that MAY work to stop an affair is: show her the consequences of losing you. If they are too far gone, fall out of love completely with you, the ONLY option is to let them go and move on with your life. You cannot talk someone into loving you. You may talk someone into staying with you out of their guilt, but it won't make them love you. Did you have to talk her into marrying you? If the answer is yes, well...*she has never been that into you*. 

I am not into driving myself crazy just to find more proofs, once I know it's an affair, that's good enough for me. But if you feel the need to find more proofs, some posters here have guided you step by step. Yet, you continue to just recover and read her texts. If she is as smart as you make her seem to be, she can be cunning enough to hide her affair underground. I don't need to read her texts back and forth, just go by what you write here:

Some guy on the team thought she was his wife --> They act like a married couple behind your back. Most importantly, your wife doesn't act like she is married to you behind your back. 

She sexted HIM on YOUR anniversary while in the car with you --> she doesn't give a damn about your anniversary, AT ALL. 

Aren't these enough to know that this level of disrespect has got to stop and it has to stop NOW. 

Use your logic. Why would a guy continue to have an EA with a woman he sees regularly? You are a guy. Do you think that makes sense? EA = a lot of texting, a lot of writing, a lot of talking...and more talking. Do you think a guy will keep it up just for occasional dirty texts when he can easily grope your wife during their practice and - from her dirty text to him - he knows she won't complain?

I believe an EA is just an EA if they never meet up. But if they see each other regularly, I am laughing out loud if anyone believes it is not a PA too. 

But since you seem to think that you know better, I wish you good luck.


----------



## wonderif

Great response stronger.

She fell head over heels for me. Wanted marriage before I did. She planned the wedding. Wanted both kids.. 

I dated over 30 women before I met her. Married once in that time. 

I have all emails and texts. She does not know I have them in except for what I found on her phone that time.

The TT is coming out as we talk. I know when she is lying now by the tone of her voice.

She is a bit defensive..trying to blame it on me in some way as well..following the script in most ways..

Highly educated woman with quite a professional resume and acts no different than most.

As for the var or PI .. I have to consider all the downsides before doing anything. Too big of a risk of the var being found or the PI getting noticed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## weightlifter

Stronger-now said:


> This sounds so iffy to me.
> 
> Money should not be a problem, but can't get PI because of X. Can't get VAR because of Y.
> 
> But okay...you want to know her thought process? I am a woman, I will take a stab.
> 
> Sleeping in tshirt and shorts: either she just does not want to make an effort with you anymore or an obvious sign to you: no sex tonight.
> 
> Sleeping on couch: no sex tonight and she resents sleeping beside you.
> 
> When she worked full time, she came home around 9, now that she is a SAHM, she comes home around 10-10.30?? Come on now. She may as well go back to work, probably she won't have much time to flirt and act like a single woman behind your back.
> 
> She is crushing on him, and you cannot talk her out of it. In fact, the more you try to "talk" her out of it, the more annoying you become. It will remind her of a nagging mother, not a sexy man she doesn't want to lose.
> 
> No orgasm when she used to have at least one: she doesn't find you attractive and it is just a duty sex to shut you up.
> 
> Good people on this site have given you the benefit of the doubt no matter how many times they have been burnt by fake posters.
> 
> THE ONLY WAY that MAY work to stop an affair is: show her the consequences of losing you. If they are too far gone, fall out of love completely with you, the ONLY option is to let them go and move on with your life. You cannot talk someone into loving you. You may talk someone into staying with you out of their guilt, but it won't make them love you. Did you have to talk her into marrying you? If the answer is yes, well...*she has never been that into you*.
> 
> I am not into driving myself crazy just to find more proofs, once I know it's an affair, that's good enough for me. But if you feel the need to find more proofs, some posters here have guided you step by step. Yet, you continue to just recover and read her texts. If she is as smart as you make her seem to be, she can be cunning enough to hide her affair underground. I don't need to read her texts back and forth, just go by what you write here:
> 
> Some guy on the team thought she was his wife --> They act like a married couple behind your back. Most importantly, your wife doesn't act like she is married to you behind your back.
> 
> She sexted HIM on YOUR anniversary while in the car with you --> she doesn't give a damn about your anniversary, AT ALL.
> 
> Aren't these enough to know that this level of disrespect has got to stop and it has to stop NOW.
> 
> Use your logic. Why would a guy continue to have an EA with a woman he sees regularly? You are a guy. Do you think that makes sense? EA = a lot of texting, a lot of writing, a lot of talking...and more talking. Do you think a guy will keep it up just for occasional dirty texts when he can easily grope your wife during their practice and - from her dirty text to him - he knows she won't complain?
> 
> I believe an EA is just an EA if they never meet up. But if they see each other regularly, I am laughing out loud if anyone believes it is not a PA too.
> 
> But since you seem to think that you know better, I wish you good luck.


Dayum this one is in the epic category. Stick around stronger. This is a holy sh!t that was good post. OP MEMORIZE that post.

thats like two newbs we have gotten epic stuff from in the past two weeks.

OP VARS are cheap. The PI thing I get. $500++++ As chief VAR goon here. Get it done already. VARS are not for confronting. They are for getting you ahead of it to get hard evidence short of a PI then crushing it completely. IE closure.


----------



## wonderif

90% of the way there. 

Full access to emails and phone now as well. 

Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.


----------



## jnj express

At that point when she was sleeping on the couch---or put her clothes on, when in bed with you, I would have bet a whole lot on her being physical with him, and at that point he was her H, and you were the back-up, and as far as she was concerned, doing anything with you, including being nude as she normally would have been with you---meant to her she was cheating on him, with you----

You have more than enuff circumstantially to demand NC---and demand she leaves sport, or finds a league that he has nothing to do with

Tis your life, your wife---but continued contact, just keeps him right there in front of her----and continues to put a stain on your relationship


----------



## warlock07

Did she confess to the PA ?

Do you want to make his work ?


----------



## dogman

If one of my kids is on crack and I'm trying to help them stop. I stop the flow of crack. I find the supplier and make them stop.

Have you had an actual conversation with this man, the coach. It would go along way. Make it clear he's tearing apart a family. Make it clear that you will make it your business to ruin his life if he has any part of this destruction.
You're a smart man, you are an alpha, you will know exactly how to word it to be effective. It's your right as a husband to confront and take the fantasy out of this for him as well.

If you have already talked to him, ignore this post I breezed through the thread and to avoid becoming enraged I skip a lot.


----------



## yeah_right

I would out him to the team. The coach probably gets a thrill of being a "leader" and when the rest of the team looked on him with disgust and disappointment, that would probably kill his attraction to your wife.

Plus, if he's targeting more than one woman, you'll get to witness one apocalyptic cat fight!


----------



## InlandTXMM

wonderif said:


> I realize the topic of this sub forum evokes a lot of pain in everyone on here.
> 
> But I like to laugh even when things are bad while keeping a positive focus.
> 
> I do appreciate the responses .. Both the ones on topic and the rest.
> 
> I could easily corner her and interrogate her in the traditional sense. But that is counterproductive.
> 
> I am about half way through her trickle truths. She has confessed to an EA but still denies the PA as well as discussing the discovery with him. We talk for two hours every night and every night she goes further.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh, God help us all. We've got another one who swears he's smarter than the rest of us.

You have my best wishes, and my sympathy. Pride goes before the fall.


----------



## InlandTXMM

wonderif said:


> Great response stronger.
> 
> She fell head over heels for me. Wanted marriage before I did. She planned the wedding. Wanted both kids..
> 
> I dated over 30 women before I met her. Married once in that time.
> 
> I have all emails and texts. She does not know I have them in except for what I found on her phone that time.
> 
> The TT is coming out as we talk. I know when she is lying now by the tone of her voice.
> 
> She is a bit defensive..trying to blame it on me in some way as well..following the script in most ways..
> 
> Highly educated woman with quite a professional resume and acts no different than most.
> 
> As for the var or PI .. I have to consider all the downsides before doing anything. Too big of a risk of the var being found or the PI getting noticed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, this just lost credibility with me. The script is followed so closely in nearly every case it's laughable. But here we see a man supposedly Nice-ing her out of the fog and everything is right with the world.

:rofl:


----------



## jnj express

Come on people---talking to the coach is a waste of time

It is his wife, who he needs to hash this out with---it is his wife who he will/will not spend the rest of his life with

It is his wife who has to decide what she wants as to her future

The coach is meaningless-----BUT FOR ---his wife we wouldn't be here discussing this would we


----------



## dogman

jnj express said:


> Come on people---talking to the coach is a waste of time
> 
> It is his wife, who he needs to hash this out with---it is his wife who he will/will not spend the rest of his life with
> 
> It is his wife who has to decide what she wants as to her future
> 
> The coach is meaningless-----BUT FOR ---his wife we wouldn't be here discussing this would we



I'm sorry but I disagree. Getting him to lay off on the texts and whatnot is invaluable as far as getting her to come out of the fog. Not handling this with him is like bathing a dog who gets sprayed by a skunk and then every night that skunk comes back and sprays my dog again. I need to get rid of the damn skunk. Then I can get my dog smelling right. 
A bad idea is " hey you know what...I'll teach my dog to not go after the skunk, in fact I'll teach him to run away from the skunk"

Haven't met a dog yet that can resist a skunk.


----------



## kristin2349

wonderif said:


> Great response stronger.
> 
> She fell head over heels for me. Wanted marriage before I did. She planned the wedding. Wanted both kids..
> 
> I dated over 30 women before I met her. Married once in that time.
> 
> I have all emails and texts. She does not know I have them in except for what I found on her phone that time.
> 
> The TT is coming out as we talk. I know when she is lying now by the tone of her voice.
> 
> She is a bit defensive..trying to blame it on me in some way as well..following the script in most ways..
> 
> Highly educated woman with quite a professional resume and acts no different than most.
> 
> As for the var or PI .. I have to consider all the downsides before doing anything. Too big of a risk of the var being found or the PI getting noticed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Seriously? There isn't a downside to a VAR in your situation! Unless you are allergic to the truth.

I did it, and it was not as bad as I imagined. If I didn't have that I'd be done and divorced. But I needed the absolute truth to maintain sanity.


----------



## kristin2349

dogman said:


> I'm sorry but I disagree. Getting him to lay off on the texts and whatnot is invaluable as far as getting her to come out of the fog. Not handling this with him is like bathing a dog who gets sprayed by a skunk and then every night that skunk comes back and sprays my dog again. I need to get rid of the damn skunk. Then I can get my dog smelling right.
> A bad idea is " hey you know what...I'll teach my dog to not go after the skunk, in fact I'll teach him to run away from the skunk"
> 
> Haven't met a dog yet that can resist a skunk.


In this case the dog needs a leash with supervision since it is too dumb to be trusted. 

Comparing a wayward to a dog is just rude to the most loyal creatures on earth.


----------



## dogman

kristin2349 said:


> In this case the dog needs a leash with supervision since it is too dumb to be trusted.
> 
> Comparing a wayward to a dog is just rude to the most loyal creatures on earth.


Haha! You are right and I owe all dogs an apology!

You know I just hate skunks because they make my dogs look stupid when they normally are very intelligent, professionals who would never dream of betraying me like that.


----------



## jnj express

hey dogman----OP, is not married to the coach---and in actuality---the coach ---OWES HIM NOTHING

It is his wife that is cheating on the mge----the coach is just along for the ride---I agree the coach, is lowlife scum, a homewrecker, a POS----but he is in no way responsible for what goes on in OP's home/household/mge.---It is OP's wife who needs to go NC, and IGNORE, anything that the coach might be sending,---once she ignores, then the coach, if he is normal and has any kind of brains---will get the idea and stop

For the OP, to go and beg the coach to stop---depending on the coach, he might laugh at him/it all might get physical/coach might comply----OP, shouldn't have to be put in that situation---his wife needs to do what is right and proper by the mge----THAT IS IF SHE WANTS THE MGE TO CONTINUE


----------



## dogman

jnj express said:


> hey dogman----OP, is not married to the coach---and in actuality---the coach ---OWES HIM NOTHING
> 
> It is his wife that is cheating on the mge----the coach is just along for the ride---I agree the coach, is lowlife scum, a homewrecker, a POS----but he is in no way responsible for what goes on in OP's home/household/mge.---It is OP's wife who needs to go NC, and IGNORE, anything that the coach might be sending,---once she ignores, then the coach, if he is normal and has any kind of brains---will get the idea and stop
> 
> For the OP, to go and beg the coach to stop---depending on the coach, he might laugh at him/it all might get physical/coach might comply----OP, shouldn't have to be put in that situation---his wife needs to do what is right and proper by the mge----THAT IS IF SHE WANTS THE MGE TO CONTINUE


I agree that he shouldn't have to do what I've suggested, and it can go sideways but I think exposure and a good talk will help.

If I spoke to the coach, he would not be a problem again. And I know it's all about the WW, but if the coach is removed from the equation, she is WAY more likely to come out of the fog.

There are ways to make the coach a non issue...
Move(run away)
Quit the team (hide)
Take away her phone
She can go back to work and have no time for the coach (delay the inevitable) 
Make the coach want nothing to do with the OPs wife (give your wife space to see more clearly and take the bull by the horns)

But from what I've read the OPs wife is not in a place where she is doing the heavy lifting (quitting the team, blocking texts, no contact letter, exposure by confession, outing the OM) so, in my opinion, he has to do something other than gather more proof she is having an affair so he can divorce her, because that's all he'll be able to do if this goes too far. Maybe that's already the case, who knows.


----------



## Harken Banks

Sounds to me like coach makes his living giving tennis lessons to people like OP's wife, paid for by people like OP. Coach is the help. Op has whatever advantage he wants.


----------



## walkonmars

Don't talk to the coach. He's a POS and pos like to preen. What an ego boost to have his married gf's husband appear to plead with this pos to please leave his wife alone. 

BUT you can send him a message nonetheless. It's called exposure. Heavy pressure - complain to the assn, out him to his so or wife, post him on cheaterville. Make every where he turns a pressure point. 

And, I agree that the WW is the one at fault. It's her responsibility to safeguard her family and honor her husband. And if it's over for the marriage, she should have the integrity to call it quits rather than to just play around. 

I sure hope this is "one of those" threads where the 'hopeless OP' comes across as someone who needs to doucche and is just pulling our chain, but if it's not .....


----------



## jnj express

If wife won't comply and do the heavy lifting, then maybe the threat of D---might wake her up-------or even tell her to pack up her clothes, and get the he*l out and go live with her lover

she either stops, or her mge stops---at some point enuff twiddling of the thumbs

How much evidence do you really need---everyone on this web site knows what has already gone down---he wants factual proof---demand a POLY


----------



## Harken Banks

If coach did in fact have sleep with OP's wife, I would derive some small bit of satisfaction from the news that coach had lost his cushy position at the country club and then could not make his mortgage or car payments.


----------



## 3putt

walkonmars said:


> Don't talk to the coach. He's a POS and pos like to preen. What an ego boost to have his married gf's husband appear to plead with this pos to please leave his wife alone.
> 
> BUT you can send him a message nonetheless. It's called exposure. Heavy pressure - complain to the assn, out him to his so or wife, post him on cheaterville. Make every where he turns a pressure point.
> 
> And, I agree that the WW is the one at fault. It's her responsibility to safeguard her family and honor her husband. And if it's over for the marriage, she should have the integrity to call it quits rather than to just play around.
> 
> I sure hope this is "one of those" threads where the 'hopeless OP' comes across as someone who needs to doucche and is just pulling our chain, but if it's not .....


Also, inform the other husbands what is going down so they can keep an eye on him around their wives. No husband wants this kind of hyena and threat in their midst. And you can also bet this will spread around very quickly as well.

There's more than one way to attack this POS.


----------



## Harken Banks

Ha ha! Have sleep. That is how we say it in Kazakhstan. Much more pleasant than sex.


----------



## wonderif

My wife came clean Monday night on her own. She came to bed and told me the timeline and then said she was very, very sorry. And she could understand if I were to decide to leave her. There was zero defensiveness. 

She told me the complete who, what, when, where and why. What she has given me matches the phone records and other info I have. She is no longer giving off the lying indicators I saw before. 

My wife admitted she pursued the OM due to a number of reasons. And it was she that initiated it and it was 80% her throughout. The EA was in full swing since Spring. She had been contemplating a PA for several months but had yet to explicitly broach the idea though they'd been making innuendo for some time. Hence the deleted texts and the sexts I found.

She did a modified NC on her own late last month. But is prepared to switch teams and coaches as well. She is sharing all her emails, texts, and phone with me. 

Just to be clear. Some of the posts on here implied I tried to "Nice" my way through this. From the very beginning I told her I was very angry with this and everything was on the table. I filed on my first wife and with few exceptions initiated my breakups with my GFs. She knew this. 

There is a difference between inflicting trauma and cruelty on someone (ie threaten polygraph) vs asking questions. I hammered on the secrecy side of things a lot and when I sensed nervousness, I would revisit it the next day. We also read Glass' book together and that provided the frame for asking questions. 

Some on here would prefer the "ultimatum" side of things. I took that away and said that everything was on the table until I knew everything and could trust her again. I let Glass' define that for her and then let her come to me with the confession. I have a voluntary admission now and she is now centered on what I want. (If you think about it, an ultimatum is means you have no real control over someone. )

The OM is not a predator. In fact, he rebuffed her subtle PA approaches. He did encourage the EA and did not cut it off and does bear some of the blame for that.


----------



## wonderif

Great link mars. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...u-decide-leave-read-my-story.html#post1385676

My wife showed me a spreadsheet comparing the OM to me that she did last month. They have one thing in common vs dozens that we have in common. She told me "I can not see myself moving forward with X but I can see myself with you."

The sick kid reference she specifically brought up and the fact that our kids are crazy about me.


----------



## kristin2349

wonderif said:


> Great link mars.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...u-decide-leave-read-my-story.html#post1385676
> 
> My wife showed me a spreadsheet comparing the OM to me that she did last month. They have one thing in common vs dozens that we have in common. She told me "I can not see myself moving forward with X but I can see myself with you."
> 
> The sick kid reference she specifically brought up and the fact that our kids are crazy about me.



A spreadsheet comparison chart? Damn that is some really highly organized cheating. 

Well it sounds like you are ok with how it's going and are proceeding according to your plan. Even following Glass' book you are in for many months of this. For some it is years.

It sounds like focusing on what you need to heal and feel like you can trust her again someday. Combined with figuring out why she did this so you can put proper safeguards in place.

Seems like you are going to do this you way. Others have with mixed success. The advice you resist the most is sometimes the exact action you need to take. But this is your show.

Good luck.


----------



## movin on

Beginning of the trickle truth.tell Other man wife what you know and watch them throw each other under the bus to save there own azzes.
This is how it will play out

Om will admit to kissing and some "fondling"
Ww will admit to oral one time
Om will say oral no more than five times
Ww will admit to intercourse. Protected. One time only
Om will say inter course three times. Unprotected once and protected twice
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## movin on

Not to sound cruel but it's how it plays out 99% of the time. I do hope you are the 1%
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## barbados

OP, you said this in post 1 :

"She left high powered job exactly 2 years ago to be a SAHM."

If she was giving up so much to spend more time with the kids, then why is she involved in some sport that takes time away from being a SAHM ?

Seems like the two contradict each other ?


----------



## dogman

wonderif said:


> My wife came clean Monday night on her own. She came to bed and told me the timeline and then said she was very, very sorry. And she could understand if I were to decide to leave her. There was zero defensiveness.
> 
> She told me the complete who, what, when, where and why. What she has given me matches the phone records and other info I have. She is no longer giving off the lying indicators I saw before.
> 
> My wife admitted she pursued the OM due to a number of reasons. And it was she that initiated it and it was 80% her throughout. The EA was in full swing since Spring. She had been contemplating a PA for several months but had yet to explicitly broach the idea though they'd been making innuendo for some time. Hence the deleted texts and the sexts I found.
> 
> She did a modified NC on her own late last month. But is prepared to switch teams and coaches as well. She is sharing all her emails, texts, and phone with me.
> 
> Just to be clear. Some of the posts on here implied I tried to "Nice" my way through this. From the very beginning I told her I was very angry with this and everything was on the table. I filed on my first wife and with few exceptions initiated my breakups with my GFs. She knew this.
> 
> There is a difference between inflicting trauma and cruelty on someone (ie threaten polygraph) vs asking questions. I hammered on the secrecy side of things a lot and when I sensed nervousness, I would revisit it the next day. We also read Glass' book together and that provided the frame for asking questions.
> 
> Some on here would prefer the "ultimatum" side of things. I took that away and said that everything was on the table until I knew everything and could trust her again. I let Glass' define that for her and then let her come to me with the confession. I have a voluntary admission now and she is now centered on what I want. (If you think about it, an ultimatum is means you have no real control over someone. )
> 
> The OM is not a predator. In fact, he rebuffed her subtle PA approaches. He did encourage the EA and did not cut it off and does bear some of the blame for that.


The thing that still really bothers me is that she stopped having sex with you. She stopped having orgasms as well. That usually doesn't happen until the WW has had sex with the OM. When it's still at the flirting stage they usually are coming home revved up and molest the BH.

I still think you will find out that something has gone down physically between them. The amount of time and the access they have to each other is super conducive to a PA.

The spread sheet is just crazy. In my opinion this is done when she already decided that she loves the other man and is figuring out if he is worth the loss of material possessions. 

Stay cynical and doubt all she says. You would be foolish to believe her words after so many months of deception. Also she didn't come clean on her own. You busted her and questioned her daily till she broke. Coming clean is when she tells you when you had no clue and she could have gotten away with it. In this case you were hot on the trail.

Good luck.


----------



## aeg512

I am like the others, it does not all add up. There was more. However, if you have the ability to put it out of your mind, you will be able to accept it and live with it.


----------



## Harken Banks

aeg512 said:


> I am like the others, it does not all add up. There was more. However, if you have the ability to put it out of your mind, you will be able to accept it and live with it.


Good post. Wonderif, you sound from how you have described yourself like a smart and impressive guy. Your wife spreadsheeted a comparison of you to the coach? And that exercise helped her to the conclusion for now anyway that she should stay with you and get over this coach thing? And you seem to think that is good? The only way I can make sense of your apparent attitude towards all of this that you have told us here is that you really don't care that much either. We're adults, what's done is done and there is no sense crying over spilled milk. But then why post here? Unless I suppose it is because you are pretty much emotionally detached from this and just doing some homework to size this up as you would any other arrangement. Fine. Even so, I am with the others who think there was a sexual element. Maybe still is.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

*You are being played.*

You haven't gotten the whole truth yet and you know it.

If you schedule a polygraph, you'll get more out of her before she ever even takes the test.

But it sounds to me like not knowing is your best defense. Because once she tells you that they had sex that bell can never be unrung.


----------



## Acabado

Why her sudden change 20 months ago? The detachment, avoiding home, avoiding you?
Is this her first affair? Was she at least contemplating this from that time (remember the weird conversation)?

Read you first post man. Her story doesn't make sense. She changed time ago, she stopped having orgasms, later having sex...
What were her explanation back then versus the current ones?


----------



## badmemory

OP,

I'm sure your wife is different. I'm sure she's been completely honest with you "this" time. If she says there was no PA, I'm sure you're right to believe her. She's unique and unlike all the other cheating spouses we come across. Trickle truth doesn't apply to her.

And you're right about the polygraph. No need to "traumatize" her with that. Everything is fine and she is remorseful.

Good luck to you.


----------



## kristin2349

badmemory said:


> OP,
> 
> I'm sure your wife is different. I'm sure she's been completely honest with you "this" time. If she says there was no PA, I'm sure you're right to believe her. She's unique and unlike all the other cheating spouses we come across. Trickle truth doesn't apply to her.
> 
> And you're right about the polygraph. No need to "traumatize" her with that. Everything is fine and she is remorseful.
> 
> Good luck to you.



I didn't need to "traumatize" my WH with a polygraph because I had the VAR and the good common sense to follow weightlifters advice step by step. And I read here until I was cross eyed it actually sunk in.

I suggest people give it a shot. Saves time and sanity.


----------



## badmemory

kristin2349 said:


> I didn't need to "traumatize" my WH with a polygraph because I had the VAR and the good common sense to follow weightlifters advice step by step. And I read here until I was cross eyed it actually sunk in.
> 
> I suggest people give it a shot. Saves time and sanity.


I agree, but a VAR likely won't help OP get the truth about the PA if she's truly stopped contact with the OM.


----------



## kristin2349

badmemory said:


> I agree, but a VAR likely won't help OP get the truth about the PA if she's truly stopped contact with the OM.



Yes I know it's just that reluctance to take any advice after asking that is confounding.

Though she seems to have him in hand, my bet is she will resume contact if she ever really stopped.

He has blown all recon opportunity so a polygraph is what is left. But wait, the trauma to her! Never mind:scratchhead:


----------



## the guy

I'm glad you got this crap out on the table, now its time she do the heavy lifting to affair proof her marriage.

Sorry for being so blunt and grud the last time I posted, it looked like you were going to sweep this under the rug and do nothing.

Well done on confronting her and getting her to see what this realy was and the evil that was about to destroy the family.

You guys have a long way to go...especially your old lady...she has to find the tools in preventing this crap from happening again.

Welcome to the cheater police, its gonna suck for a while but if your old lady pulls her sh1t together she can regain *some* trust. If she is submissive enought to be in cheater prison she just might save this marriage.

To bad she is to alpha to be this submisive to a man she betrayed.


----------



## movin on

she made a spreadsheet comparing her husband to the coach? who the hell does that?


----------



## tom67

movin on said:


> she made a spreadsheet comparing her husband to the coach? who the hell does that?


Spidey sense here.


----------



## kristin2349

movin on said:


> she made a spreadsheet comparing her husband to the coach? who the hell does that?



An anal retentive cheater. I was really floored by that one. 

My from college had a similar thing happen to her. Her then boyfriend even did a little drawing emphasis on my friend having a flat chest and big bottom. 20 years later, she will mention it once in a while when she's feeling down about herself. Yikes.


----------



## hookares

Wonderif, she stopped having sex with you and moved to the couch because she WAS having sex with him and he likely did some damage she knew you would discover.
I hope you've had a STD test regardless of whether or not you plan to stay with her.


----------



## wonderif

The sheet was an attempt by her to make sense of things and shake herself out of the fog. AKA he is a wonderful man, why am I feeling this way? 

Last month she was VERY miserable - like she had broken up with someone - which she did. She did a modified NC last month about 10 days after D-day - corroborated by a text from him a week later and the complete drop off in emails following. 

If you think the sheet is weird, you should see my list of things she said, did, and the intel all cross referenced. It is a thing of beauty. 

The lack of O's was heavy sex toy usage. She was fantasizing about him heavily in late summer and into fall. The burst of sex with me was in early summer and I did find it weird. The sex now is pretty frequent and she is back to her wild self. 

As for her sport, she trains her base fitness at the gym in the morning and practices two evenings and plays on the weekends. 

I know about being a spy. I hated doing it and that is why I changed professions. I am detached because that is how I am when on a case. Believe me I am boiling inside. When I used to do this for a living, 9 times out of ten this sh** led to an arrest or worse. 

The VAR and PI are subject to being discovered. First rule of intel work is not to lose your best sources by getting made by trying additional methods on the same target. I do NOT want her to know I have her wrapped. 

It is going to be hard to trust her again. She came right out after she spilled and told me that she would understand if I left or asked her to leave. I filed on my first wife and with one exception, I left my GFs. She knows this. Kids complicate things tremendously - she is a fabulous mom and we are both very close to our kids. It would shatter the kids for me to tell her to move out.


----------



## wonderif

The sheet was an attempt by her to make sense of things and shake herself out of the fog. AKA he is a wonderful man, why am I feeling this way? 

Last month she was VERY miserable - like she had broken up with someone - which she did. She did a modified NC last month about 10 days after D-day - corroborated by a text from him a week later and the complete drop off in emails following. 

If you think the sheet is weird, you should see my list of things she said, did, and the intel all cross referenced. It is a thing of beauty. 

The lack of O's was heavy sex toy usage. She was fantasizing about him heavily in late summer and into fall. The burst of sex with me was in early summer and I did find it weird. The sex now is pretty frequent and she is back to her wild self. 

As for her sport, she trains her base fitness at the gym in the morning and practices two evenings and plays on the weekends. 

I know about being a spy. I hated doing it and that is why I changed professions. I am detached because that is how I am when on a case. Believe me I am boiling inside. When I used to do this for a living, 9 times out of ten this sh** led to an arrest or worse. 

The VAR and PI are subject to being discovered. First rule of intel work is not to lose your best sources by getting made by trying additional methods on the same target. I do NOT want her to know I have her wrapped. 

It is going to be hard to trust her again. She came right out after she spilled and told me that she would understand if I left or asked her to leave. I filed on my first wife and with one exception, I left my GFs. She knows this. Kids complicate things tremendously - she is a fabulous mom and we are both very close to our kids. It would shatter the kids for me to tell her to move out.


----------



## Acabado

Once again, what was her explanations for her sudden change 20 months ago (way before the start of this affair as she claims)?


----------



## Harken Banks

Good luck, Wonderif. Your wife was and maybe still is in an affair. That is nothing against you.


----------



## jnj express

Hey wonderif---she is NOT A FABULOUS MOM---any mother that has an A, of any kind, and puts the family in harms way, and at the risk of being destroyed---is NOT fabulous, she is just the opposite---a very selfish, self centered person---she has now jeopardized the future peace and well being of those very same kids, she is spose to be a fabulous mom too!!!!

It doesn't seem your mge was in any major trouble, but if she did perceive problems, instead of talking to you, she took on an AP---that is not any kind of FABULOUS ANYTHING

As to now---if you are gonna stay with her, and R this situation---then she MUST leave the sports league she is in entirely----this is exactly the same as advise given on a workplace A-----thru the league, she will still have/come into contact, or hear about him-------HE HAS TO BE TOTALLY OUT OF SIGHT OUT OF MIND---if he is still in her mind---this thing IS NOT OVER WITH

Last thing that should be bothering you, is why did she leave the marital bedroom, and/or change her night time style-------everything points to her replacing you WITH HIM-----what they were actually into, you can find out or not---I would think this will bother your sub--conscious for a period of time, if you don't find out---but this IS your ballgame-------do not forget she knows how to lie---and I imagine if she admitted to going physical, a nuclear winter would be descending on all of you---so I doubt she will own up to anything physical, unless you actually have proof---but circumstantially it all points to her being physical during her time of leaving the marital bedroom

How you proceed is up to you---good luck to you


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

wonderif said:


> I filed on my first wife and with one exception, I left my GFs. She knows this.


Were all these because you caught them cheating on you?

If so, I think that you might want to figure out why this keeps happening to you again and again...


----------



## aug

Given what he wrote here, he knows both sides of the matter.


----------



## jack.c

i still dont understand if he is into R or D... or worse (rugsweep)


----------



## barbados

jnj express said:


> Hey wonderif---she is NOT A FABULOUS MOM---any mother that has an A, of any kind, and puts the family in harms way, and at the risk of being destroyed---is NOT fabulous, she is just the opposite---a very selfish, self centered person---she has now jeopardized the future peace and well being of those very same kids, she is spose to be a fabulous mom too!!!!


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Amen !


----------



## InlandTXMM

wonderif said:


> 90% of the way there.
> 
> Full access to emails and phone now as well.
> 
> Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.


Man I cringe in horror at your blind, willful arrogance.

You're going to go down hard.

ETA: Just read that you were the OM several times on your other thread. No sympathy. At all. 

Enjoy a healthy dose of Karma.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

InlandTXMM said:


> Man I cringe in horror at your blind, willful arrogance.
> 
> You're going to go down hard.
> 
> ETA: Just read that you were the OM several times on your other thread. No sympathy. At all.
> 
> Enjoy a healthy dose of Karma.


I didn't realize the he had another thread. Now it looks more like he's getting just deserts.

Or, he's/she's a... Ahh, doesn't matter. I'm out'a here either way.

Good luck Waldorf.


----------



## workindad

Ignorance is not bliss, especially when it is willful.

WD


----------



## illwill

Karma. And she is no great mom and you are no alpha.


----------



## wonderif

Most of the regular posters on here have a script they follow as well. Let's call it the "TAM infidelity Poster Script."

It consists of being the most negative about any post made by someone asking for help. 

It also puts all of the blame on the WS with no blame laid on the BS for any reason. 

It also assumes that the WS actions are cookie cutter and solely for the basest of reasons rather than for a set of complex reasons. 

I think these three assumptions are not true in my case and probably not true in many. The large number of posts on here by WS saying they need to "work on themselves" speaks to this. 

I do think there is a lot of good info on TAM, but I do think there should be some balance. Unfortunately, the most strident voices do the majority of the posting. This drowns out the way forward for a lot of couples who do not fit the script. 

I found this site to be the closest to what we are going through and I appreciate those who PM'd it to me.

Coping with Infidelity: Beginning (Part 1)

My wife has confessed and taken responsibility for her actions, but part of the blame has been mine for being distant and cold to her. Being emotionally connected to someone is a basic human need for people, especially for women. One other factor was that though we got married, we got married as secure adults, and never acted married in that we jointly solved and talked about our lives. We each tried to address the problem on our own rather than jointly - things we tried to do on our own - kids, work, her sport, and other things were not faced and discussed together. This is the first big problem we are solving together. 

Her reasons came down to:

1. Boredom
2. Lack of connection to me
3. Not appreciated
4. She grew in other areas


She is struggling with the full NC right now. She came to me every day the last four to say she needed help. 

The other thing to point out is that she said that she needed to trust me again as well. Had I exploded over this we'd be having another discussion. She'd already lost hope for us this summer. 

The folks on here saying she is not a good mom, you are cowards.


----------



## InlandTXMM

You're right, OP. You two deserve each other.


----------



## aug

Given OP past experiences, this is not an unexpected position for him to take.


----------



## harrybrown

So how would she feel if you had an affair?

Would she divorce you?


----------



## LongWalk

Keep posting

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## badmemory

wonderif said:


> It also puts all of the blame on the WS with no blame laid on the BS for any reason.
> 
> *Guilty, you got me on that one.*
> 
> It also assumes that the WS actions are cookie cutter and solely for the basest of reasons rather than for a set of complex reasons.
> 
> *Complex or not, if a spouse cheats, their reasons are secondary to their actions.*


I would presume that's the way most of us who post on this forum feel - based on our own experiences with infidelity. So, you're at least right about that.


----------



## happyman64

Hey WOnderif

You make some very valid points. And the bashing of the BS's and WS's has been pretty hard on some threads.

But please realize that many people to empathize with you and sometimes it spills out in hurtful comments.

Some BS"s do not want to see you get hurt again like they did.

But there is something you can do that will help you fix your relationship.

Keep listening to all posters. Discard the bad and think about the good advice.

Take what you think will work for you and use it. 

Keep posting.

Many of us value family and are pro reconciliation on TAM.

And we support you.

HM


----------



## TheFlood117

Have you exposed and filed for divorce yet?


----------



## kristin2349

wonderif said:


> Most of the regular posters on here have a script they follow as well. Let's call it the "TAM infidelity Poster Script."
> 
> It consists of being the most negative about any post made by someone asking for help.
> 
> It also puts all of the blame on the WS with no blame laid on the BS for any reason.
> 
> It also assumes that the WS actions are cookie cutter and solely for the basest of reasons rather than for a set of complex reasons.
> 
> I think these three assumptions are not true in my case and probably not true in many. The large number of posts on here by WS saying they need to "work on themselves" speaks to this.
> 
> I do think there is a lot of good info on TAM, but I do think there should be some balance. Unfortunately, the most strident voices do the majority of the posting. This drowns out the way forward for a lot of couples who do not fit the script.
> 
> I found this site to be the closest to what we are going through and I appreciate those who PM'd it to me.
> 
> Coping with Infidelity: Beginning (Part 1)
> 
> My wife has confessed and taken responsibility for her actions, but part of the blame has been mine for being distant and cold to her. Being emotionally connected to someone is a basic human need for people, especially for women. One other factor was that though we got married, we got married as secure adults, and never acted married in that we jointly solved and talked about our lives. We each tried to address the problem on our own rather than jointly - things we tried to do on our own - kids, work, her sport, and other things were not faced and discussed together. This is the first big problem we are solving together.
> 
> Her reasons came down to:
> 
> 1. Boredom
> 2. Lack of connection to me
> 3. Not appreciated
> 4. She grew in other areas
> 
> 
> She is struggling with the full NC right now. She came to me every day the last four to say she needed help.
> 
> The other thing to point out is that she said that she needed to trust me again as well. Had I exploded over this we'd be having another discussion. She'd already lost hope for us this summer.
> 
> The folks on here saying she is not a good mom, you are cowards.



So you not only have TAM posters figured out, but you have her "wrapped". So it makes me wonder what you really are asking or trying to figure out. If you are given alternate views. You are really quick to point out you have a better answer. Or you can't because your situation is somehow different.

OK, good luck with all that.


----------



## anchorwatch

Look at everything. Take it all in.

Yet, what ever method you find of use, be sure you're both on board.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

I always laugh at people that say this:


> Most of the regular posters on here have a script they follow as well. Let's call it the "TAM infidelity Poster Script."
> 
> It consists of being the most negative about any post made by someone asking for help.


Most of the "regular posters" vary wildly.

We have the "alphas."
The divorce crowd.
The reconciliation crowd.
The positive no matter what.
The negative no matter what.
The middle of the road posters.
The outliers.

Here's the thing I take from your thread, you got most of them to agree and that is SCARY.

If you want to accept blame and that helps you reconcile cool. Calling people cowards because YOU blame yourself for the affair is childish. Defend your wife, I would as well, but understand people are going to call her a bad mother even more so with this list:


> 1. Boredom
> 2. Lack of connection to me
> 3. Not appreciated
> 4. She grew in other areas


If you need some strange to reconnect with your spouse that is sad. The time and emotional connection you waste with the affair partner takes needless time away from the family, especially the kids. Yes, her affair affected the kids as well. Every thought, date, text, talk and affair was time that could have been spent reconnecting with you and time with the kids. While I do not got that far, calling people a bad mom, I completely understand and can't refute the "bad mom" argument.


----------



## barbados

phillybeffandswiss said:


> If you need some strange to reconnect with your spouse that is sad. The time and emotional connection you waste with the affair partner takes needless time away from the family, especially the kids. Yes, her affair affected the kids as well. Every thought, date, text, talk and affair was time that could have been spent reconnecting with you and time with the kids. While I do not got that far, calling people a bad mom, I completely understand and can't refute the "bad mom" argument.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## CASE_Sensitive

When I posted here at TAM about the libidio mismatch between my wife and I, i was not prepared for some of the quick, crass comments from some of the more "jaded" posters. I was looking for advice and in some cases got great responses, and in others got insults to the woman I'm married too and love (despite our issues). My recommendation is to tune out the harshness, look for the advice you can live with, and stay positive. It's a great community here and given the circumstance of this particular board, I think it's understandable the pain that comes through some posts. Just remember one day you might be the one giving advice here to others going through what you did and you'll be in a better position looking back to recognize where a "push" was needed.


----------



## Harken Banks

Good luck, brother. I hope you will continue to participate here. I may not have gotten it right, but it seemed to me that when you wrote in the past about being the other man, you were not married. I don't hold it against you. I realized in the fallout from my wife's affair, that in my youth I had some inappropriate contact with women who were married. Mostly stuff I had forgotten about cascaded into my thinking at some odd hour of the morning almost 2 years ago. Two instances I can recall pretty well. In each case I did not think much of it at the time, other than "sad." And in my defense in one of these cases I did not know the woman was married until after during clean up -I couldn't tell you her name today and probably didn't know it that night and one of the things that was sad was that she kept saying thank you after and all I did was **** her and it wasn't even that good -it was during the skiing days and those kind of things happened, and in the other it was at a wedding (not hers) weekend and I was drunk and tired, kind of acquiesced for a while and then asked for it to stop probably less of out principle than because I wasn't into it -she was an old college friend and attractive but never in a way that appealed to me. Again, in each case, to the extent I thought I about it, all I thought was "sad." A pretty transient sad. Like you read a story in the paper that is sad and you think that is sad and then you turn the page. I had forgotten this stuff 20 years. Anyway, I don't think I was a bad guy and I am not holding it against you. But you seem to take a very casual attitude about your wife's infidelity and that is just bizarre to me unless you don't really care. I've been through this. It hurt more than anything I ever imagined. I think about that often even though the jagged edge of the hurt is gone and won't come back. It made a total and abject mess of me and my life for at least a year and certainly with lasting effects that I probably do not appreciate. Your cool is a bit inscrutable.


----------



## illwill

Call us cowards if you want. Im not a cheater and i dont take bs.

Cheaters see affairs as gray. Loyal spouses see it as black and white. Because it is.

And a good mother does not risk her child's emotional and economic future for sex. A good parent always puts the children above whatever desires they have.

Best of luck to you.


----------



## kristin2349

When something doesn't hit a raw/tender spot it doesn't get a response. So OP comes to a public forum to solicit advice. Shoots down all advice offered and is now taking aim at the messengers. So something landed on a sore spot, or right on the nose.

We are all a bit different. We do tend to let our experience color the advice or opinions given. It doesn't make it less valuable, it is up to the you OP to decide what to do. But if you find the advice here useless, why keep going round and round. 

You have enough to deal with, if something here helps, great. We are not a enabling bunch. It's free advice so it IS worth every cent you paid for it.

One day you might realize the advice you resisted the most was the advice you really needed.


----------



## thummper

Wonder, I noticed in one of your posts that some folks had described your wife as "not a good mother." From what I've observed personally and from what I've read here and on other sites, this is usually NOT the case. The fact that the WW had an affair on her BS does not mean she doesn't love and cherish her children, although they often are the ones that end up suffering the most when mom and dad call it quits. I'm sure, based on what you've said, that she loves and cares for her kids. I find it refreshing that you, as the BS, are sticking up for her and not letting others insult her unnecessarily. Good for you! I can still see the love you have for her. :smthumbup:


----------



## InlandTXMM

kristin2349 said:


> So you not only have TAM posters figured out, but you have her "wrapped". So it makes me wonder what you really are asking or trying to figure out. If you are given alternate views. You are really quick to point out you have a better answer. Or you can't because your situation is somehow different.
> 
> OK, good luck with all that.


The most arrogant ones always think they can out-smart the hundreds of BS's who have already walked through the mine field.

Only a few ever man up enough to come admit they were wrong. Most just go away. And NONE are ever back in a year gloating that they were right.

Oh well.


----------



## Cubby

thummper said:


> Wonder, I noticed in one of your posts that some folks had described your wife as "not a good mother." From what I've observed personally and from what I've read here and on other sites, this is usually NOT the case. The fact that the WW had an affair on her BS does not mean she doesn't love and cherish her children, although they often are the ones that end up suffering the most when mom and dad call it quits. I'm sure, based on what you've said, that she loves and cares for her kids. I find it refreshing that you, as the BS, are sticking up for her and not letting others insult her unnecessarily. Good for you! I can still see the love you have for her. :smthumbup:


There may be some categories of being a mother that she's good at. But overall, on balance, no, she's not a good mother. A good mother doesn't deliberately make her children suffer because she wants to fook other men. She may love and care for her children, but not enough to stop her from having an affair. And not enough to be called a "good mom." She has failed. Failed miserably.


----------



## illwill

thummper said:


> Wonder, I noticed in one of your posts that some folks had described your wife as "not a good mother." From what I've observed personally and from what I've read here and on other sites, this is usually NOT the case. The fact that the WW had an affair on her BS does not mean she doesn't love and cherish her children, although they often are the ones that end up suffering the most when mom and dad call it quits. I'm sure, based on what you've said, that she loves and cares for her kids. I find it refreshing that you, as the BS, are sticking up for her and not letting others insult her unnecessarily. Good for you! I can still see the love you have for her. :smthumbup:[/QUOT
> 
> She can love her children, yet still lack the skills, to be a good mother.


----------



## InlandTXMM

A woman who breaks up her family and robs her children of a full-time father, just for some "strange" between her legs, is by definition not a good mother.

It makes her a really qualified selfish *****, but not really a candidate for Mom of the Year.


----------



## Dyokemm

"The fact that the WW had an affair on her BS does not mean she doesn't love and cherish her children, although they often are the ones that end up suffering the most when mom and dad call it quits."

This, in and of itself, makes a parent (of either sex) a s****y parent to some extent.

No amount of love or care can make up for destroying your own kids happiness and family.


----------



## kristin2349

Yeah, tons of perfect role modeling. Do as I say not as I do. Don't lie, cheat, act your age, treat others with kindness and respect. You know optional crap like that the kids never pick up on.


----------



## wonderif

Just an update. Pop some popcorn. 

Wife did a modified NC a few weeks ago. She has had trouble sticking to it - breaking down to text OM every 3rd or 4th day, but texts getting shorter. But no more long emails any more and no calls and no meetings. This has been going on for almost 6 weeks now. 

She has been having a huge problem with the withdrawal period.

She would confess to about half of texts and I'd use a line "I can tell when you have contacted him.." approach for half of the remaining to get them out of her. (I ignored some texts to prevent her from getting suspicious.)

While this was going on we talked about her withdrawal problems. I made love to her every night. I repeated in so many ways that I would do just about anything for her and the kids, but would not be a doormat. I also pressed her on contacting him - see my post above on it. I kept her honest. I also gave her 30+ minutes of undivided attention each day. Told her I was here to help her with it. Would not judge her - but would not be a doormat either. 

I got her engagement ring cleaned (and it looks really good BTW) and she started wearing it again. 

Starting last weekend the OM became pretty desperate with several texts a day asking what she was up to or where she was, etc. She was very good at ignoring them for a day or two instead of responding right away. In fact, I could predict when she would respond - it was when I had to work late or when we would hit a rough spot. 

No doubt the dude was in his own withdrawal, had no one to talk to, etc. (Cue violin music..)

I expected this to drag on for a month or three more. 

Now for the fun part...

On Sunday his texts were pretty whiny. They ran into each other at practice Monday.. and he was not too happy when he saw the ring or how good she looked. On top of that she was hanging out with another group and ignoring him. ( One of the guys in that group has been spying for me...)

After the night's practice he was waiting by her car and they had a huge fight. Accused her of trading him for another guy in the other group. Accused her of planning to make out with this guy in the parking lot. Made some story up about another woman he was coaching that he had to go help to try to make her jealous. 

This was the exact wrong thing for him to do. Wife hates weakness and insecurity in men. And hates being manipulated. 

She just detonated on him in the parking lot. 

She then came home livid and let me know about the fight. She was explosively angry!! 

Quote, "He made my decision very easy now." and "I thought I was special to him and this is how he treats me." and "I thought he was a nice guy and cared." and "I thought he had deep feelings for me." and "I feel played" and "I feel like such a fool."

I popped a huge bag of popcorn in my mind and just listened. 

Do not interrupt your WS when they are telling you about the OM making a huge mistake...I learned more about them in the process and what her thinking was that led to the A. 

That night lifted the fog in her mind. The sun came out. She is a changed woman. Has not read any of his old emails, has not texted him, is looking for a new team and program, and has not used her sex toys all week. She is back in the gym 2x a day. Talking about our future. Wants me to learn the sport. 

I waited a couple of days to talk to her about how I was not going to be the second choice nor would I tolerate being second choice. If she wanted to walk, I would let her go. That
bothered her for a day. But now things are better than they have been in years with her. 

One of the things she told me Fri was that, "I was trying to let him down easily..." Sure....but just 4 weeks before she was saying "I wonder if I should give it a chance.." She wonders if she was his "Monday Girl" and has been talking about some things he said and told her that do not make sense now. She is questioning everything about him in detail..This shows her rewriting their past now- rather than ours - and justifying the end. 

I did not expect this to end this way. WTF! It is a nice surprise.

Of course, I am still a bit ambivalent.

Getting the weak kneed sack of sh** crybaby out of the picture now gives me some space to think about the future. 

She lied to me over a dozen times about texting him. I had to drag the truth out of her about the A. She actively hid the A. I am angry that her actions threatened our family. My work has suffered. 

I do trust her on things like the kids and money and just about everything else. But I can no longer trust her when it comes to stuff like this.


----------



## wonderif

Dyokemm said:


> "The fact that the WW had an affair on her BS does not mean she doesn't love and cherish her children, although they often are the ones that end up suffering the most when mom and dad call it quits."
> 
> This, in and of itself, makes a parent (of either sex) a s****y parent to some extent.
> 
> No amount of love or care can make up for destroying your own kids happiness and family.


I am an advocate of making sure kids know about the world and human nature as soon as they can understand and cope with it. 

Kids are a lot smarter and tougher than they are given credit for. 

We have already talked to our son about this situation. He came right out and said this is about "coach xx" isn't it? He beat us to the punch. He had already caught on to part of it.


----------



## weightlifter

Have you ruled out PA?


----------



## wonderif

weightlifter said:


> Have you ruled out PA?


It was PA off an on for about a year. Partial PA for a few months, ie making out in the parking lot, last fall, with a break of a few months, followed by a three trysts in a hotel in late summer.

Something I did not add. I was in a major car accident last winter and she broke it off around that time then restarted it this May. I had major surgery three hours after the accident. She slept in my ER bed that night and spent the whole week with me at the hospital. And then waited on me for months. I really think that had she NOT been so devoted then that I would have done something different when I found out...

The logistics this summer were limited to days when kids were at relatives or a day camp. Logistics after school started were zero.

I reconstructed her daily routine back to January using phone records, gym records, bank statements, email history, web history, etc. (She has never deleted her web browser history..) I identified about 10 days where she could have done something, ie a LONG period with no evidence of her doing something. Of those days, the dates she gave landed right on them. She pulled her CC statements and showed me those days. (She paid for the room..)


----------



## workindad

Good thing you won't be a doormat...

Say what you mean and mean what you say or expect more of the same and accept that you accept a cheating liar as a spouse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jim123

wonderif said:


> Just an update. Pop some popcorn.
> 
> Wife did a modified NC a few weeks ago. She has had trouble sticking to it - breaking down to text OM every 3rd or 4th day, but texts getting shorter. But no more long emails any more and no calls and no meetings. This has been going on for almost 6 weeks now.
> 
> She has been having a huge problem with the withdrawal period.
> 
> She would confess to about half of texts and I'd use a line "I can tell when you have contacted him.." approach for half of the remaining to get them out of her. (I ignored some texts to prevent her from getting suspicious.)
> 
> While this was going on we talked about her withdrawal problems. I made love to her every night. I repeated in so many ways that I would do just about anything for her and the kids, but would not be a doormat. I also pressed her on contacting him - see my post above on it. I kept her honest. I also gave her 30+ minutes of undivided attention each day. Told her I was here to help her with it. Would not judge her - but would not be a doormat either.
> 
> I got her engagement ring cleaned (and it looks really good BTW) and she started wearing it again.
> 
> Starting last weekend the OM became pretty desperate with several texts a day asking what she was up to or where she was, etc. She was very good at ignoring them for a day or two instead of responding right away. In fact, I could predict when she would respond - it was when I had to work late or when we would hit a rough spot.
> 
> No doubt the dude was in his own withdrawal, had no one to talk to, etc. (Cue violin music..)
> 
> I expected this to drag on for a month or three more.
> 
> Now for the fun part...
> 
> On Sunday his texts were pretty whiny. They ran into each other at practice Monday.. and he was not too happy when he saw the ring or how good she looked. On top of that she was hanging out with another group and ignoring him. ( One of the guys in that group has been spying for me...)
> 
> After the night's practice he was waiting by her car and they had a huge fight. Accused her of trading him for another guy in the other group. Accused her of planning to make out with this guy in the parking lot. Made some story up about another woman he was coaching that he had to go help to try to make her jealous.
> 
> This was the exact wrong thing for him to do. Wife hates weakness and insecurity in men. And hates being manipulated.
> 
> She just detonated on him in the parking lot.
> 
> She then came home livid and let me know about the fight. She was explosively angry!!
> 
> Quote, "He made my decision very easy now." and "I thought I was special to him and this is how he treats me." and "I thought he was a nice guy and cared." and "I thought he had deep feelings for me." and "I feel played" and "I feel like such a fool."
> 
> I popped a huge bag of popcorn in my mind and just listened.
> 
> Do not interrupt your WS when they are telling you about the OM making a huge mistake...I learned more about them in the process and what her thinking was that led to the A.
> 
> That night lifted the fog in her mind. The sun came out. She is a changed woman. Has not read any of his old emails, has not texted him, is looking for a new team and program, and has not used her sex toys all week. She is back in the gym 2x a day. Talking about our future. Wants me to learn the sport.
> 
> I waited a couple of days to talk to her about how I was not going to be the second choice nor would I tolerate being second choice. If she wanted to walk, I would let her go. That
> bothered her for a day. But now things are better than they have been in years with her.
> 
> One of the things she told me Fri was that, "I was trying to let him down easily..." Sure....but just 4 weeks before she was saying "I wonder if I should give it a chance.." She wonders if she was his "Monday Girl" and has been talking about some things he said and told her that do not make sense now. She is questioning everything about him in detail..This shows her rewriting their past now- rather than ours - and justifying the end.
> 
> I did not expect this to end this way. WTF! It is a nice surprise.
> 
> Of course, I am still a bit ambivalent.
> 
> Getting the weak kneed sack of sh** crybaby out of the picture now gives me some space to think about the future.
> 
> She lied to me over a dozen times about texting him. I had to drag the truth out of her about the A. She actively hid the A. I am angry that her actions threatened our family. My work has suffered.
> 
> I do trust her on things like the kids and money and just about everything else. But I can no longer trust her when it comes to stuff like this.


It sad that she had no problem complaining about the OM to you. She has no respect for you at all. The worst part is that you are not even insulted about it.


----------



## Singledude21

jim123 said:


> It sad that she had no problem complaining about the OM to you. She has no respect for you at all. The worst part is that you are not even insulted about it.


Was gonna say the same thing, but figured it would be better for people more experienced in this stuff than me to bring it up.

I'm getting a bunch of PLAN B vibes from her statements.


----------



## Graywolf2

Singledude21 said:


> I'm getting a bunch of PLAN B vibes from her statements.


*Very true, but...*



wonderif said:


> I was in a major car accident last winter ... She slept in my ER bed that night and spent the whole week with me at the hospital. And then waited on me for months. I really think that had she NOT been so devoted then that I would have done something different when I found out....


----------



## Lostinthought61

Just curious wonder...are you going to contact the OMW ? 
The other thing I was wondering about is whether you will have your wife tell her family what she has done, by taking ownership of her transgressions?
Thank you


----------



## Dyokemm

"followed by a three trysts in a hotel in late summer."

Has this changed how you are feeling or looking at this mess?

Last I remember you addressing this issue you said you were confident that it had just been an EA.

Now you have the truth that she did indeed take her betrayal to the next level.

Has it changed your attitude about R any?


----------



## dogman

...so if someone is a doormat and they don't know it, does it count?

Your wife came home livid about the OM, and then complained to you....makes you a doormat. You are the second choice. Sorry. 

Your wife opened her legs and let another man do his thing and you slept with her without getting her a blood test?

You let her be in a situation where she ended up alone with the OM again.

The OM doesn't think you are the problem, he thinks she is cheating with ANOTHER tennis dude. Ha! You are zero threat! He can't imagine her wanting you, because of the things she said to him about you.

Suddenly now she is willing to leave the team. When it was for your comfort, it was too much to ask.

But if youre happy, good for you! So long as you win the prize of your .......wife.


----------



## dogman

It was PA off an on for about a year. Partial PA for a few months, ie making out in the parking lot, last fall, with a break of a few months, followed by a three trysts in a hotel in late summer.


This means oral sex in the parking lot. 

I still really hate how people will sanitize situations so they can live with it. Let's say the truth. Off and on for a year they made out and had oral sex in the parking lot. Then she came home and kissed you hello each time. Trysts in a hotel? Say what it is! Come on! They deviously planned to phuck! Because it was that intense. They met and they had sex for hours and he finished inside her many times during each "tryst"


I'm sorry but, I can't stand when they get off the hook soooo easy. And the OP just takes his scraps with a smile.

We are all interested in saving our marriages but just like a wound, it needs to be cleaned completely or else it will heal over with bad things in there that will infect and cause future problems if not death. Cheating is a serious wound, if you close this without really dealing with everything the fine people on this site are telling you, you will have future problems that may kill your marriage.


----------



## illwill

Rugsweep.


----------



## kristin2349

jim123 said:


> It sad that she had no problem complaining about the OM to you. She has no respect for you at all. The worst part is that you are not even insulted about it.


Yeah that made me nauseous. Plus having the [email protected] to put the hotel room on her credit card. 

Good luck with all of that OP.


----------



## verpin zal

wonderif said:


> Most of the regular posters on here have a script they follow as well. Let's call it the *"TAM infidelity Poster Script."
> *
> It consists of being the most negative about any post made by *someone asking for help.*
> 
> It also *puts all of the blame on the WS with no blame laid on the BS* for any reason.
> 
> It also assumes that the WS actions are cookie cutter and solely for the basest of reasons rather than for a set of complex reasons.
> 
> I think these three assumptions are not true in my case and probably not true in many. The large number of posts on here by WS saying they need to "work on themselves" speaks to this.
> 
> I do think there is a lot of good info on TAM, but I do think there should be some balance. Unfortunately, the most strident voices do the majority of the posting. This drowns out the way forward for a lot of couples who do not fit the script.
> 
> I found this site to be the closest to what we are going through and I appreciate those who PM'd it to me.
> 
> Coping with Infidelity: Beginning (Part 1)
> 
> My wife has confessed and taken responsibility for her actions, but part of the blame has been mine for being distant and cold to her. Being emotionally connected to someone is a basic human need for people, especially for women. One other factor was that though we got married, we got married as secure adults, and never acted married in that we jointly solved and talked about our lives. We each tried to address the problem on our own rather than jointly - things we tried to do on our own - kids, work, her sport, and other things were not faced and discussed together. This is the first big problem we are solving together.
> 
> *Her reasons* came down to:
> 
> 1. Boredom
> 2. Lack of connection to me
> 3. Not appreciated
> 4. She grew in other areas
> 
> 
> *She is struggling with the full NC* right now. She came to me every day the last four to say she needed help.
> 
> The other thing to point out is that *she said that she needed to trust me again as well*. Had I exploded over this we'd be having another discussion. *She'd already lost hope for us* this summer.
> 
> The folks on here saying she is not a good mom, *you are cowards*.


May it please the court;


----------



## InlandTXMM

He just knows better than we do, folks.

Nothing to see here; he's got it all figured out.


----------



## kristin2349

InlandTXMM said:


> He just knows better than we do, folks.
> 
> Nothing to see here; he's got it all figured out.



Yeah I'm not sure why he keeps telling us to pop some popcorn.

Nothing entertaining about this hot mess. Just sad. But I'm glad the OP says he has it well in hand.


----------



## InlandTXMM

kristin2349 said:


> Yeah I'm not sure why he keeps telling us to pop some popcorn.
> 
> Nothing entertaining about this hot mess. Just sad. But I'm glad the OP says he has it well in hand.


Remember a page or so back he thanked us for "the entertainment".


----------



## kristin2349

wonderif said:


> Just an update. Pop some popcorn.
> 
> Wife did a modified NC a few weeks ago. She has had trouble sticking to it - breaking down to text OM every 3rd or 4th day, but texts getting shorter. But no more long emails any more and no calls and no meetings. This has been going on for almost 6 weeks now.
> 
> She has been having a huge problem with the withdrawal period.
> 
> She would confess to about half of texts and I'd use a line "I can tell when you have contacted him.." approach for half of the remaining to get them out of her. (I ignored some texts to prevent her from getting suspicious.)
> 
> While this was going on we talked about her withdrawal problems. I made love to her every night. I repeated in so many ways that I would do just about anything for her and the kids, but would not be a doormat. I also pressed her on contacting him - see my post above on it. I kept her honest. I also gave her 30+ minutes of undivided attention each day. Told her I was here to help her with it. Would not judge her - but would not be a doormat either.
> 
> I got her engagement ring cleaned (and it looks really good BTW) and she started wearing it again.
> 
> Starting last weekend the OM became pretty desperate with several texts a day asking what she was up to or where she was, etc. She was very good at ignoring them for a day or two instead of responding right away. In fact, I could predict when she would respond - it was when I had to work late or when we would hit a rough spot.
> 
> No doubt the dude was in his own withdrawal, had no one to talk to, etc. (Cue violin music..)
> 
> I expected this to drag on for a month or three more.
> 
> Now for the fun part...
> 
> On Sunday his texts were pretty whiny. They ran into each other at practice Monday.. and he was not too happy when he saw the ring or how good she looked. On top of that she was hanging out with another group and ignoring him. ( One of the guys in that group has been spying for me...)
> 
> After the night's practice he was waiting by her car and they had a huge fight. Accused her of trading him for another guy in the other group. Accused her of planning to make out with this guy in the parking lot. Made some story up about another woman he was coaching that he had to go help to try to make her jealous.
> 
> This was the exact wrong thing for him to do. Wife hates weakness and insecurity in men. And hates being manipulated.
> 
> She just detonated on him in the parking lot.
> 
> She then came home livid and let me know about the fight. She was explosively angry!!
> 
> Quote, "He made my decision very easy now." and "I thought I was special to him and this is how he treats me." and "I thought he was a nice guy and cared." and "I thought he had deep feelings for me." and "I feel played" and "I feel like such a fool."
> 
> I popped a huge bag of popcorn in my mind and just listened.
> 
> Do not interrupt your WS when they are telling you about the OM making a huge mistake...I learned more about them in the process and what her thinking was that led to the A.
> 
> That night lifted the fog in her mind. The sun came out. She is a changed woman. Has not read any of his old emails, has not texted him, is looking for a new team and program, and has not used her sex toys all week. She is back in the gym 2x a day. Talking about our future. Wants me to learn the sport.
> 
> I waited a couple of days to talk to her about how I was not going to be the second choice nor would I tolerate being second choice. If she wanted to walk, I would let her go. That
> bothered her for a day. But now things are better than they have been in years with her.
> 
> One of the things she told me Fri was that, "I was trying to let him down easily..." Sure....but just 4 weeks before she was saying "I wonder if I should give it a chance.." She wonders if she was his "Monday Girl" and has been talking about some things he said and told her that do not make sense now. She is questioning everything about him in detail..This shows her rewriting their past now- rather than ours - and justifying the end.
> 
> I did not expect this to end this way. WTF! It is a nice surprise.
> 
> Of course, I am still a bit ambivalent.
> 
> Getting the weak kneed sack of sh** crybaby out of the picture now gives me some space to think about the future.
> 
> She lied to me over a dozen times about texting him. I had to drag the truth out of her about the A. She actively hid the A. I am angry that her actions threatened our family. My work has suffered.
> 
> I do trust her on things like the kids and money and just about everything else. But I can no longer trust her when it comes to stuff like this.


If the OM can still make her explosively angry he still has her.

In the meantime she's treating you like her best girlfriend telling you how she felt about all this. And you are checking the batteries in her sex toys. 

Yet you say you have this in hand...you trust her with money. She not only cheated, she picked up the tab. Yes, she's really got good judgment. If she's going to debase herself it should be on your family tab.


----------



## Cubby

wonderif is such a good listener when his wife complains about her boyfriend-coach. Like her own personal counselor. I'm not sure exactly how this one's going to end up, but it's not going to go well for wonderif with the approach he's taking.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jim123

InlandTXMM said:


> He just knows better than we do, folks.
> 
> Nothing to see here; he's got it all figured out.


I know a BH like OP. His wife is on her fourth PA. The latest is very public like this one. The kids are very embarrassed. His two sons quit sports to get away from this.


----------



## kristin2349

Cubby said:


> wonderif is such a good listener when his wife complains about her boyfriend-coach. Like her own personal counselor. I'm not sure exactly how this one's going to end up, but it's not going to go well for wonderif with the approach he's taking.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



He's mentally popping corn while listening to her unburden herself. She's getting back to her old self. The quicker he gets comfortable the better. She'll have a new lover in no time and she'll be slicker.

In the meantime she's playing with her new dangly earrings (his [email protected]) and he's taking it all with a smile like its happening on TV.


----------



## illwill

This whole post is insanity. Are you kiddin me !!!!????


----------



## Cubby

jim123 said:


> I know a BH like OP. His wife is on her fourth PA. The latest is very public like this one. *The kids are very embarrassed. His two sons quit sports to get away from this.*


Let me guess....this BH also claims his wife is a "good mother," right?


----------



## jim123

Cubby said:


> Let me guess....this BH also claims his wife is a "good mother," right?


No he does not. He like most BH lacks confidence.


----------



## weightlifter

Was the answer to my question the first time it came out that it was confirmed PA? 

Be careful OP, better than even money she is playing you. Your peak danger time is not six days from now, it is six months from now. I would just plan going 007 hardcore in May.


----------



## InlandTXMM

jim123 said:


> No he does not. He like most BH lacks confidence.


... but tries to compensate with arrogance.


----------



## kristin2349

weightlifter said:


> Was the answer to my question the first time it came out that it was confirmed PA?
> 
> Be careful OP, better than even money she is playing you. Your peak danger time is not six days from now, it is six months from now. I would just plan going 007 hardcore in May.


Bowing to weightlifter! I'm in!

I'd bet both hands. And they are already decked in my Christmas guilt gifts...


----------



## weightlifter

kristin2349 said:


> Bowing to weightlifter! I'm in!
> 
> I'd bet both hands. And they are already decked in my Christmas guilt gifts...


/scratch head. Forgive. Me no understand post. Brain is not firing on all cylinders today. ( ok or any day). Enlighten me. Guilt gifts?


----------



## illwill

He can spy all he wants. He aint gonna act.


----------



## kristin2349

weightlifter said:


> /scratch head. Forgive. Me no understand post. Brain is not firing on all cylinders today. ( ok or any day). Enlighten me. Guilt gifts?


Sorry weightlifter, bowing to your insight.


And I'm in on your bet. I think you are right on the money. I'm a bit off today (I kicked coffee) but I said (I'd bet both hands you are right as I'm staring at a glaring "guilt gift" from WH). My inside joke was obviously confusing... I think lack of caffeine and this thread scrambled my brain.

And maybe I need to start a "can't buy me love" thread:scratchhead:


----------



## LongWalk

Wonder,

I think you've a good job in many respects. When you selectively accused her texting him that was smart. You gave her the impression that you were in touch with her feelings and authoritative.

Now you need to stick with this new more decisive style. Make her respect you. 

What sport is she into?

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## kristin2349

illwill said:


> He can spy all he wants. He aint gonna act.


Won't even full on spy.


----------



## Harken Banks

What I find most remarkable is that there is no pain in his voice. Most of us here have been fairly traumatized by infidelity. Not so is my guess with OP. Or if there has been trauma, the wound was cauterized before he started posting here. But then, why post?


----------



## kristin2349

Harken Banks said:


> What I find most remarkable is that there is no pain in his voice. Most of us here have been fairly traumatized by infidelity. Not so is my guess with OP. Or if there has been trauma, the wound was cauterized before he started posting here. But then, why post?



There is a very detached nature (mentally popping popcorn). 

And the gleeful nature of WW coming clean while he defends her is just puzzling but hey to each his own. We've been told he's got her wrapped. I hope he keeps it wrapped when he has sex with her.


----------



## InlandTXMM

Harken Banks said:


> What I find most remarkable is that there is no pain in his voice. Most of us here have been fairly traumatized by infidelity. Not so is my guess with OP. Or if there has been trauma, the wound was cauterized before he started posting here. But then, why post?


He isn't feeling the pain because he's been the OM multiple times. His conscience is seared. Plus his arrogance with us must surely show up in his private life. I'm sure he quite confidently thinks he's mentally wrestled his wife into submission. He's just that great a guy, after all.


----------



## wonderif

LongWalk said:


> Wonder,
> 
> I think you've a good job in many respects. When you selectively accused her texting him that was smart. You gave her the impression that you were in touch with her feelings and authoritative.


That was the best thing I did so far. I backed her into a corner and she coughed that hairball up. She kept trying to change the subject, claimed it was some other event from the day, ran on and on about something else, etc. I mentally recorded her methods of evasion. She never once offered to show me her phone or laptop either. I kept pressing. "Ah, but that does nto sound like it made you upset." and "That's interesting, but that would not cause you to be down..." 

Since the blow up with pretty boy she has slowly turned her anger onto me. I got an earful this morning about my faults and about how angry she was about me. About how pretty boy entered the picture after she gave up on me - I reminded her she admitted to feelings for him long before she said gave up. She said I did not listen to her when she told me she was not happy, yet she gave up too easily - never brought up MLC. How she was trying to ease him out - I reminded her she was evasive and protecting him up until recently. Like she was evasive about the A, she will now be evasive about why she went into the A.

When I score a major point, she will change the subject after a few seconds of silence. That is how she evades the guilt.


----------



## wonderif

InlandTXMM said:


> ... but tries to compensate with arrogance.


It is called tradecraft. 

Tradecraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## anchorwatch

What plans do you have for the OM?


----------



## wonderif

dogman said:


> Your wife came home livid about the OM, and then complained to you....makes you a doormat. You are the second choice. Sorry.
> ..
> .


Great comments BTW. Except. 

I told her she could deal with it herself. That had her balling in the bathroom by herself for about 30 minutes before I went in and talked to her. In her own words, "I felt betrayed by both of you.."



dogman said:


> The OM doesn't think you are the problem, he thinks she is cheating with ANOTHER tennis dude. Ha! You are zero threat! He can't imagine her wanting you, because of the things she said to him about you.
> .


Read between the lines. 

I kept my mouth shut about this with her for a reason. I will use it later to great effect at the right time. For instance, tell one of his buddies that we had a great weekend at a hotel...

The only explanation for him to think that she was moving on to another guy other than me is that she told him she was thinking about leaving me and/or things were over between us. If she was deceiving me, then she was outright playing him, LOL. She was using him as an emotional crutch, a safety valve for her troubled feelings as a way of not confronting them - the sex was just to keep him on the hook. 

I bet he would love to know that even though she and I had dropped of on our love life, we still went at it hard just about every week and she has been crawling all over me the last two months. And that the weekend I caught her her texting him, we had a pretty wild time all day long - not to mention the weekend before at a hotel - or the two months before that at another hotel when we went out on the balcony at suite under the full moon for most of the night. Or the week long trips we went on early in the summer which were 3x a day or better. 

Or that for the first five years of our relationship, we had sex at least once a day, if not much more. 

I bet that three hours with her twice in August must have really blown his mind. I know her pretty well when it comes to sex - and he must not have been that great.


----------



## wonderif

anchorwatch said:


> What plans do you have for the OM?


Besides staking him to a fire ant mound and smearing him with fish guts??

Or watching her squirm when I talk about calling him? She begged me not to contact him, his boss, or his wife. 

LOL


----------



## jack.c

wonderif said:


> Great comments BTW. Except.
> 
> I told her she could deal with it herself. That had her balling in the bathroom by herself for about 30 minutes before I went in and talked to her. In her own words, "I felt betrayed by both of you.."
> 
> 
> 
> Read between the lines.
> 
> I kept my mouth shut about this with her for a reason. I will use it later to great effect at the right time. For instance, tell one of his buddies that we had a great weekend at a hotel...
> 
> The only explanation for him to think that she was moving on to another guy other than me is that she told him she was thinking about leaving me and/or things were over between us. If she was deceiving me, then she was outright playing him, LOL. She was using him as an emotional crutch, a safety valve for her troubled feelings as a way of not confronting them - the sex was just to keep him on the hook.
> 
> I bet he would love to know that even though she and I had dropped of on our love life, we still went at it hard just about every week and she has been crawling all over me the last two months. And that the weekend I caught her her texting him, we had a pretty wild time all day long - not to mention the weekend before at a hotel - or the two months before that at another hotel when we went out on the balcony at suite under the full moon for most of the night. Or the week long trips we went on early in the summer which were 3x a day or better.
> 
> Or that for the first five years of our relationship, we had sex at least once a day, if not much more.
> 
> I bet that three hours with her twice in August must have really blown his mind. I know her pretty well when it comes to sex - and he must not have been that great.



suonds like YOU ARE the OM...... :scratchhead:


----------



## anchorwatch

wonderif said:


> Besides staking him to a fire ant mound and smearing him with fish guts??
> 
> Or watching her squirm when I talk about calling him? She begged me not to contact him, his boss, or his wife.
> 
> LOL


If he thinks you have knowledge of the A, I would think he's looking over his shoulder and preparing for your move. Most likely ready to throw your W under the bus.


----------



## wonderif

Harken Banks said:


> What I find most remarkable is that there is no pain in his voice. Most of us here have been fairly traumatized by infidelity. Not so is my guess with OP. Or if there has been trauma, the wound was cauterized before he started posting here. But then, why post?


No. I've been through lots of traumas. Not sure where this falls on the scale between watching your best friend bleed out in your arms or burying a brother or having your mother slowly die in during in-home hospice. 

I post to for the same reasons others do. Another way of dealing with it.


----------



## wonderif

anchorwatch said:


> If he thinks you have knowledge of the A, I would think he's looking over his shoulder and preparing for your move. Most likely ready to throw your W under the bus.


Very perceptive. Agree to some extent. Wife has come to same conclusion too though she has not said same. Wife said she would shoot him if he showed up at our house.


----------



## wonderif

Here are the things that started her asking questions that really revealed her hand. Some were prior to me finding out and others afterwards..

Brought on questions. Double dread of me knowing something and her not being able to control the story. #3 has the added dimension of threatening the OM. 

1. Said she talked in her sleep about the OM. 
2. Said I could tell she had contacted OM from how she was acting.
3. Disappeared at a party where her sports friends were. She wanted to know who I talked to.

He reaction was a red flag:

4. Said I was thinking about taking the sport up again. 
5. Said I wanted to come watch.
6. Her reaction to other women around the OM. 
7. Reaction of OM when she was around OOM. 

LOL


----------



## Harken Banks

wonderif said:


> No. I've been through lots of traumas. Not sure where this falls on the scale between watching your best friend bleed out in your arms or burying a brother or having your mother slowly die in during in-home hospice.
> 
> I post to for the same reasons others do. Another way of dealing with it.


Well, OK, I have never experienced any of those things. Still, when you post here, there doesn't seem to be any emotion. What you describe sounds more like a cat and mouse game.


----------



## dogman

wonderif said:


> Great comments BTW. Except.
> 
> I told her she could deal with it herself. That had her balling in the bathroom by herself for about 30 minutes before I went in and talked to her. In her own words, "I felt betrayed by both of you.."
> 
> 
> 
> Read between the lines.
> 
> I kept my mouth shut about this with her for a reason. I will use it later to great effect at the right time. For instance, tell one of his buddies that we had a great weekend at a hotel...
> 
> The only explanation for him to think that she was moving on to another guy other than me is that she told him she was thinking about leaving me and/or things were over between us. If she was deceiving me, then she was outright playing him, LOL. She was using him as an emotional crutch, a safety valve for her troubled feelings as a way of not confronting them - the sex was just to keep him on the hook.
> 
> I bet he would love to know that even though she and I had dropped of on our love life, we still went at it hard just about every week and she has been crawling all over me the last two months. And that the weekend I caught her her texting him, we had a pretty wild time all day long - not to mention the weekend before at a hotel - or the two months before that at another hotel when we went out on the balcony at suite under the full moon for most of the night. Or the week long trips we went on early in the summer which were 3x a day or better.
> 
> Or that for the first five years of our relationship, we had sex at least once a day, if not much more.
> 
> I bet that three hours with her twice in August must have really blown his mind. I know her pretty well when it comes to sex - and he must not have been that great.



Sorry...you can't brag about banging your wife. We all bang our wives, it's supposed to be that way. She isn't supposed to be able to compare and contrast the different humping styles. That's messed up! 
The worst part is that she had sex with him and you during the same period of time. That doesn't seem to bother you, you just say "I was better" wow! You're not reacting like a man who loves his wife. Youre acting like a guy who just wants to win. Strange....JMO


----------



## kristin2349

Harken Banks said:


> Well, OK, I have never experienced any of those things. Still, when you post here, there doesn't seem to be any emotion. What you describe sounds more like a cat and mouse game.



I agree and I can say that I have had traumas that compare. It didn't make me feel less. Even when I was taking Prozac, Xanax and Klonopin just to be able to function. 

There is little if any advice that he has taken and used so I suppose he is journaling and looking for responses. Not really any advice, he's got this all figured out:scratchhead:


----------



## movin on

wonderif said:


> Besides staking him to a fire ant mound and smearing him with fish guts??
> 
> Or watching her squirm when I talk about calling him? She begged me not to contact him, his boss, or his wife.
> 
> LOL


That would make me wanna contact them even more. 
Tell the guys wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## InlandTXMM

This OP's thinking is strange beyond comprehension. Something is mis-firing. 

Dude, you're actually getting off on the competition between your wife's lover and yourself.

Bragging about banging your own wife is a little like bragging that you beat your dog 3 times out of 5 the last time you played chess.


----------



## thummper

Maybe I missed this, but why is she begging that the OP NOT call him, his boss, or his wife? This guy needs to be cut off at the knees, metaphorically speaking. I don't think anything is too extreme for this slimeball. Why is the wife protecting him? Is she AT ALL interested in her husband, his feelings, and their future together? This homewrecker needs to be exposed to everybody!


----------



## InlandTXMM

thummper said:


> Maybe I missed this, but why is she begging that the OP NOT call him, his boss, or his wife? This guy needs to be cut off at the knees, metaphorically speaking. I don't think anything is too extreme for this slimeball. Why is the wife protecting him? Is she AT ALL interested in her husband, his feelings, and their future together? This homewrecker needs to be exposed to everybody!


Considering how callous and flippant this OP is about it all, I wonder why he even wants to fix this. This is a 180-degree turnaround from his first posts.

Hmmm... how shall we say this in a mod-friendly way? 

An "inventive" thread ripe with creativity, juxtaposition, and inflammation. Or else a massive steaming pile of dysfunction.


----------



## InlandTXMM

dogman said:


> Sorry...you can't brag about banging your wife. We all bang our wives, it's supposed to be that way. She isn't supposed to be able to compare and contrast the different humping styles. That's messed up!
> The worst part is that she had sex with him and you during the same period of time. That doesn't seem to bother you, you just say "I was better" wow! You're not reacting like a man who loves his wife. Youre acting like a guy who just wants to win. Strange....JMO


Well remember he was the OM several times before. For him, it IS a competition. I honestly believe he just needs to come out on top, whether the marriage survives or not. It's about "him", not about "them".

He keeps talking about "scoring points" in his arguments with her, or her "showing her hand". If this is even an honest situation, it's one of the strangest BS reactions I've ever read here. Like REALLY off.


----------



## Graywolf2

wonderif said:


> Wife said she would shoot him if he showed up at our house.


*If the above is true, why is she protecting him?*



wonderif said:


> She begged me not to contact him, his boss, or his wife.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

wonderif said:


> I bet he would love to know that even though she and I had dropped of on our love life, we still went at it hard just about every week and she has been crawling all over me the last two months. And that the weekend I caught her her texting him, we had a pretty wild time all day long - not to mention the weekend before at a hotel - or the two months before that at another hotel when we went out on the balcony at suite under the full moon for most of the night. Or the week long trips we went on early in the summer which were 3x a day or better.


You do understand the OM doesn't care, as long as he is getting his as well right? Let me be blunt, that's all well in good, but if he was hitting it between all of your conquests, he doesn't care. He understand she is married and that there will be times she is having sex with you.

I mean if we follow your "reading between the lines" you just argued you are getting less, but it is of a better quality. As the other poster said, that is Other Man/Affair Partner talk.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Gather 'round maties whilst I spin you a yarn...


----------



## sandc

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Gather 'round maties whilst I spin you a yarn...


:iagree:


----------



## warlock07

OP was an OM when he was younger. He probably wouldn't do it now. Persecuting the OP and taking misery in his pain that he is now because he was an OM is plain stupid. This guy is a BS. He is here for support. We need not stack up more sh!t on top of what is already a pretty bad situation for him. 


That said, I totally agree with dogman. You shouldn't be happy you are f*cking your own wife. Get some perspective. It is pretty bad if you have to do that to your wife's OM. Your wife is not a prize. You are so caught up in trying to fight the OM that you forgot what the prize is. Your wife is not a prize


----------



## warlock07

wonderif said:


> Very perceptive. Agree to some extent. Wife has come to same conclusion too though she has not said same. Wife said she would shoot him if he showed up at our house.


She lies a lot, if you haven't noticed already.


----------



## InlandTXMM

warlock07 said:


> OP was an OM when he was younger. He probably wouldn't do it now. Persecuting the OP and taking misery in his pain that he is now because he was an OM is plain stupid. This guy is a BS. He is here for support. We need not stack up more sh!t on top of what is already a pretty bad situation for him.


I'm sorry, but I don't think he's here for support in any form. He's taken none of the advice given. He's thanking us all for "the entertainment". He's bragging that he is sleeping with his own wife, and he's in a one-man pissing contest with the OM.

He's not here to solve anything. He most certainly doesn't see any issues he personally needs to work on. He's got it all figured out, and only comes here to tell us all how much he DIDN'T need us.

I really don't know what he's here for. This is not like any BS I have ever seen, and so far most of the ones that come here and strut their Alpha status have been trolls.

Reading from the other side of cyberspace, this OP is either faking this situation, or else is far less emotionally healthy and stable than he first let on. Articulate, yes. Intelligent, yes. Mature? Hell no.

My guess is, he feels so defensive and weak by this, he needs the OM to be a sort of "straw man" he can kick around. But what's evident is the OM is deeper into his own head than he was into OP's wife. This guy isn't focused on fixing his marriage, he's a macho Don Quixote off to fight the windmill.


----------



## dogman

The longer I live the more I have to say,

Wow! The world is just full of screwed up people! 

Just when you have some things figured out along comes someone who says 1+1= 3, then they try to prove it till you just walk away shaking your head.


----------



## InlandTXMM

dogman said:


> The longer I live the more I have to say,
> 
> Wow! The world is just full of screwed up people!
> 
> Just when you have some things figured out along comes someone who says 1+1= 3, then they try to prove it till you just walk away shaking your head.


These threads lately have just about got me checked out of here. I mean, you want to do good - to give back after the help these guys gave in your time of need, but this place has become more fan faction than real lately.


----------



## wonderif

Graywolf2 said:


> *If the above is true, why is she protecting him?*


Good question. She definitely is. She is also trying to protect what little she has left with me. 

1. She thinks she wants to be a SAHM.
2. She does not want to go back to work. 
3. She wants to continue to work out. 

She had the gall to ask me last night to ask if I trusted her. And when i said no, asked me what I did not trust her about.


----------



## Graywolf2

wonderif said:


> She had the gall to ask me last night to ask if I trusted her. And when i said no, asked me what I did not trust her about.


I would tell her: The only thing that has changed is that I caught you. Why should you be worthy of trust now?

Things would change if I contacted him, his boss and his wife.

If I contacted the OM I would act as if I were only upset about my paying (indirectly) for their hotel room. I would demand that he send me a check. “If my wife wants to f**k you that’s her business, but what kind of a man doesn’t pay for the room. Even with a hooker, the man pays for the %$#@ room.”:rofl:

OR "You can rent my wife for free but that room cost real money.":smthumbup:

OR "My wife showed me the room charges on her credit card statement. Who do think pays that? If you can’t afford to play, man up and take out a loan. I’m not running a charity brothel.":rofl:

Have fun


----------



## happyman64

Harken Banks said:


> Well, OK, I have never experienced any of those things. Still, when you post here, there doesn't seem to be any emotion. What you describe sounds more like a cat and mouse game.


He is stalking his prey.

But he is smarter than most.

He now has his WW giving him all of the evidence in her sleep and out of guilt when she is awake.

Just remember Wonderif that if you truly want to keep your wife and marriage you have to finish this mess.

And your wife has to be remorseful.

Be strong soldier and remember what you are fighting for. After too many battles/traumas some people forget what they are fighting for and give up.

HM


----------



## LongWalk

Generally TAM does not recommend confronting OM. But heck, OP, if you decide to confront him. Do it front of the whole team at practice. Use cold anger to dress him down and walk off. Take your wife along so she can watch.


----------



## wonderif

InlandTXMM said:


> I'm sorry, but I don't think he's here for support in any form. He's taken none of the advice given.
> .


Hmm. Have to disagree. 

1. I bugged her phone and computer. 
2. I found a spy in her other circle of friends. 
3. I did not do a VAR or PI because I get all the recordings off her phone and I know she is very observant. Look up eidetic when you get a chance. (advice was not to reveal sources..)
4. I've already talked to a divorce lawyer. 
5. I confronted her without giving up my sources and got a full confession. 




> He's thanking us all for "the entertainment". He's bragging that he is sleeping with his own wife, and he's in a one-man pissing contest with the OM.


Unfortunately a lot of people on this site cannot take advice yet berate others for not taking their advice. TAM is relentlessly "divorce them now" and "Crush them!" when it comes to cheaters. 

Anyone who does not follow the script is immediately written off by regulars. It is a typical human trait inherent in tribal groups. It reinforces social norms. 

One of the norms is that the newb post about being torn up inside, in a lot of pain, does not know what to do. The regulars on here all jump in with white knight advice. Cheater's script is responded to with another script, no matter the people involved or the situation or the various impacts. 

There is no real attempt to discern the seperable characteristics of the people, their past, and the runup in events. Ironies abound. 

One Irony is that "the cheater cannot be a good parent because they are a cheater and did not think of the kids!" followed by "divorce them! take the kids!" Completely contradictory. 



> He's not here to solve anything. He most certainly doesn't see any issues he personally needs to work on. He's got it all figured out, and only comes here to tell us all how much he DIDN'T need us.


I've responded to constructive comments. And tweaked the beat-the-messenger ones. 

Why is it important for anyone to NEED you? I think you need to do some introspection yourself.

I don't like people who try to force their views on me. Give me advice. Trust me to interpret it. Trust me to realize that I may be wrong. Listen to what I ask and respond along those lines. That is a healthy approach. 

I know what I need to work on. Why should I publish it here? Just to follow a script?

I will not criticize the mother of my kids in public nor will I tolerate OT comments. Is that the line I am missing in the script? 



> My guess is, he feels so defensive and weak by this, he needs the OM to be a sort of "straw man" he can kick around. But what's evident is the OM is deeper into his own head than he was into OP's wife. This guy isn't focused on fixing his marriage, he's a macho Don Quixote off to fight the windmill.


Some of the posters on here are still tilting at windmills past. And reliving past traumas in some form of self-therapy. At some point, everyone needs to move on. 

It is interesting that you bring up Cervantes. It could be an allegory for much of TAM. 

DQ is about deception, madness and then realization. On the surface, the main character lives mostly through what he has read in books, trying to be the White Knight who can save women and the world. Sancho on the other hand knows what he has done and observed. 

The BS posters are the DQ posters on here who are the doormats and the clueless slowly coming to realization. The Sanchos are the posters like weightlifter who have a wealth of real world expertise. 

The WS and the OS are the various characters, some clueless themselves, spouting farce, or some sadistic and cold. We have many wide ranging stories, some horribly awful and some just so. 

The DQ posters move through cluelessness to madness and finally to realization to become good but wiser. The Sanchos try hard to help the DQ posters and sometimes go a little mad themselves trying to help them.


----------



## wonderif

Graywolf2 said:


> I would tell her: The only thing that has changed is that I caught you. Why should you be worthy of trust now?


Bingo. 

When she told me about their fight, she expected I would be relieved. She was really upset that I was pissed that night and the next day. Right there it shows she does not understand what she has done to me. Or what he said revealed what she has said to him about us. 



> “If my wife wants to f**k you that’s her business, but what kind of a man doesn’t pay for the room. Even with a hooker, the man pays for the %$#@ room.”:rofl:
> 
> :


Good response. Like the attempt at humor. Brings up another point. 

One aspect of this is that she has her own money. The OM lives paycheck to paycheck. And may just be using her in this regard both short term and long term. 

My spy told me that OM wife was asking questions about wife this summer. I've only met her twice at parties. 

I checked cheaterville for him with the city. His name is rather unique.. His name has been searched for 5 times and my wife's has been searched for three times. Hmm. Wonder if he is fishing in a lot of ponds? And could his wife be digging or is the other pond digging?


----------



## wonderif

happyman64 said:


> Be strong soldier and remember what you are fighting for. After too many battles/traumas _*some people forget what they are fighting for *_and give up.
> 
> HM


Thanks. great advice. Best so far.


----------



## doubletrouble

wonderif said:


> Besides staking him to a fire ant mound and smearing him with fish guts??
> 
> Or watching her squirm when I talk about calling him? *She begged me not to contact him, his boss, or his wife. *LOL


With that, she's protecting OM. My fWW did the same thing, horrified that I might contact POSOM's W. It sickened me.


----------



## TRy

wonderif said:


> After the night's practice he was waiting by her car and they had a huge fight. Accused her of trading him for another guy in the other group. Accused her of planning to make out with this guy in the parking lot.


 Wow, she just told you that based on what your wife has told the other man (“OM”) about you, even and including up until this fight, his opinion of you is so low that he could not even imagine that she would leave him for you, so it must be a new other man. This also tells you that her opinion of you is still so low, that even after you confronted her about her affair, she never told the OM that the affair was over because she was going back to you. She instead felt that she had the luxury of “letting him down easy”, rather than simply telling him that she is working on her marriage, needs to end the affair, and needs to go full no contact. 



wonderif said:


> She just detonated on him in the parking lot.
> 
> She then came home livid and let me know about the fight. She was explosively angry!!
> 
> Quote, "He made my decision very easy now." and "I thought I was special to him and this is how he treats me." and "I thought he was a nice guy and cared." and "I thought he had deep feelings for me." and "I feel played" and "I feel like such a fool."


 She just told you that up until this fight, the decision to pick you over this OM had not been made by her, and that the OM was still in the running even after you confronted her about the affair. What is even more amazing is that she told you this to your face and expected you to be OK with this.



wonderif said:


> I do trust her on things like the kids and money and just about everything else. But I can no longer trust her when it comes to stuff like this.


 Actually, when the divorce does come, if not about this other man then the next one, you will discover that you cannot trust her about “kids and money”. 

The bottom line is that your wife’s opinion of you is so low, and her lack of remorse is so high, that I see little there for you to rebuild a marriage with. No one can be in love with someone that they do not respect, and your wife just does not respect you.

BTW, in a number of posts, you keep wanting to rub it into the OM that you are having good sex with your wife. Dude, being able to have sex with your own wife is nothing to brag about to the other man. The fact that you think it is, speaks volumes about what your wife’s low opinion of you has done to you. You need to file like yesterday and not look back. You can always change your mind before it is final if your wife shows true remorse and does the hard work to deserve a second chance. You must be willing to end a bad marriage to have a chance at a marriage worth being in. You did not deserve to be cheated on, this is all on her. Good luck to you and be well.


----------



## badmemory

wonderif said:


> Unfortunately a lot of people on this site cannot take advice yet berate others for not taking their advice. TAM is relentlessly "divorce them now" and "Crush them!" when it comes to cheaters.
> 
> Anyone who does not follow the script is immediately written off by regulars. It is a typical human trait inherent in tribal groups. It reinforces social norms.
> 
> One of the norms is that the newb post about being torn up inside, in a lot of pain, does not know what to do. The regulars on here all jump in with white knight advice. Cheater's script is responded to with another script, no matter the people involved or the situation or the various impacts.
> 
> There is no real attempt to discern the seperable characteristics of the people, their past, and the runup in events. Ironies abound.
> 
> One Irony is that "the cheater cannot be a good parent because they are a cheater and did not think of the kids!" followed by "divorce them! take the kids!" Completely contradictory.
> 
> I've responded to constructive comments. And tweaked the beat-the-messenger ones.
> 
> Why is it important for anyone to NEED you? I think you need to do some introspection yourself.
> 
> I don't like people who try to force their views on me. Give me advice. Trust me to interpret it. Trust me to realize that I may be wrong. Listen to what I ask and respond along those lines. That is a healthy approach.
> 
> I know what I need to work on. Why should I publish it here? Just to follow a script?
> 
> Some of the posters on here are still tilting at windmills past. And reliving past traumas in some form of self-therapy. At some point, everyone needs to move on.


Amazing.

OP has figured out that TAM isn't about helping BS's. It's about us using anonymous posts to vicariously deal with our own infidelity trauma.

He knows, that from reading just a few of his posts, we should be able to understand all the subtle nuances of his special situation; because of course, it's unique. Instead we read from a script.

Never mind that this "script" has helped many of us into R with a remorseful spouse. Never mind that sometimes, divorce is the best option when the cheating spouse isn't remorseful. Not unlike yours. 

OP, instead of regaling us with your intelligence and knowledge of classic literature - and coming off as a flippant know it all in the process; maybe you should accept some of the 2x4's you're getting without the condescension. Accept it or don't; but complaining about it, when you're the one who came here for advice; just isn't cool.


----------



## LongWalk

Wonderif,

People have their own baggage and can come out in their analysis and/or demeanor. As a rule, just don't take it personally.

The affair is over. That is a good thing. 

How now do you get your wife to be remorseful? And from her remorse how do you rebuild your marriage. One ironic but common situation is that the WS is suffering from the loss of the AP. She wants sympathy. She is in mourning. The AP is not the person she thought he was; he was not high class. Oops, she was giving oral and vaginal sex to an unworthy jerk. What does that make her?

She will now want to recover her self esteem. That will not come from you simply forgiving her. She will need to examine her behavior and be disgusted with herself. So, before she gets her head in a better place she is going to have be rather self critical.

Still curious what sport?

Happy New Year!

You will need MC and IC to work through this stuff.

Emotionally you will probably be all over the place. At times you'll be happy to have driven this rival off, at other moments you'll question whether you can ever trust your wife again.

Think before you open you mouth. Show restraint and self respect. You need to lead your wife out of this if you R is your goal. You are now the moral leader in your relationship. Does it feel lonely?


----------



## clipclop2

*Re: Re: My story - EA - &gt; PA ?*



TRy said:


> BTW, in a number of posts, you keep wanting to rub it into the OM that you are having good sex with your wife. Dude, being able to have sex with your own wife is nothing to brag about to the other man.


I found this line of thinking really weird, too. They were both effing her. And somehow this is a bonus point for the BS? Cake eating goes with the territory for waywards. They get the bonus point. You are still a chump. If the OM is a chump, too and this makes you feel better there is an issue beneath all of this that may be part of what is wrong with your marriage in the first place. 

Is your wife an object? A trophy? A bone over which you and OM can scrap like dogs? 

Are you materialistic? 

Shallow? 

Short? 

Your wife has a low opinion of you for a reason. It isn't going to change in all likelihood. 

You are right about the BS script. But you fail to accept that you aren't that special and that experience counts for a lot more than ego and bravado. 

Divorce, don't divorce. Makes no real difference to anyone but your own family. But the arrogance you demonstrate is bizarre given the circumstances. So perhaps having a little more respect for those following the BS script would serve you not just here but in your real life.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

> One Irony is that "the cheater cannot be a good parent because they are a cheater and did not think of the kids!" followed by "divorce them! take the kids!" Completely contradictory.


Your generalization above is not a contradiction nor is it ironic. Instead of being mad, work on you. Go get some individual counseling and get your wife to HELP WORK on the marriage instead of coasting. It's sad because contrary to your protestations, you are confused. 

You don't want understanding.
You don't want empathy.
You don't want advice, unless it makes you feel good.
You don't want truth.
You don't want sympathy.

Then just say, "Hey, I'm venting, I don't need advice." 


As to irony, your wife crapped all over your marriage, took time away from you and your kids, but here you sit "white knighting" yourself. That's the real irony in this thread.


----------



## WalterWhite420

wonderif said:


> Me late 40s, her late 30s. 2 Kids 6 and 3. Married 12 years. She left high powered job exactly 2 years ago to be a SAHM. Wife used to be a 9 and is now an 8, is fit and has an amazing figure still. I am fit and well dressed. I still turn heads and get lots of smiles and flirts. I make upper six figures as an executive VP and will be a CEO one day. I am almost always home by 7 and usually put the kids to bed. Other than my long hours from time to time, we have a good life. I have never cheated on her and have not even come close - despite quite a PUA life prior to our marriage.
> 
> About 20 months ago I got a gut feeling that something was not right and started focusing on her behavior.
> 
> She would wear a t-shirt to bed and shorts. Prior to this, even with kids running in, she would wear nothing to bed. She also slept on her side of the bed, and not draped across me like before. She also was abrupt with me in the morning and the calls and texts during the day had dropped off to little or nothing. She began to come home later and later from some volunteer work she does. 36 months ago she would be home no later than nine whereas she would come home at 10 or 10:30. She would also come home from her sport later and later. She spent a lot of time texting and emailing. She became short with the kids and me. She also started a weird conversation one date night, "I could not have an affair. My face would give me away."
> 
> About six months ago she spent a week or two sleeping on the couch. It became very difficult to seduce her whereas before I could just kiss her neck and we have our usual romp. At the time she would still get her O but about 4 months ago she stopped getting O's at all with me. ( I have never been with a woman has not gotten off at least once per session. ) At night if I rolled over and tried to hug her, she would push me off if she was asleep. If she was awake, she would tense up. She would also get out of bed and go in the living room a lot. During one of these times, I got a hunch and looked for her sex toys. Both were missing. The next day they were back.
> 
> About this same time, we were invited to a party with her team, but the coach was not invited. I found this very strange, as he had been at the other parties. She did not bring this up and when I did, she was silent. I started going to some games and noticed that the coach was very lively with her until I showed up un-announced. His face changed to a mask. And another time she needed something from him and he raced over to bring it to her, and when he saw me, the mask came down. Also she stepped away from me when she saw him and stood between us, forming a triangle.
> 
> When I saw her form the triangle, I decided to look at her phone and emails. I saw that while all us - family and friend's texts ran back to May, she had deleted his. She only had a few days' worth on her phone. On top of this, the ones there included from him, "Sorry I could not walk you to the car." and "Sorry about last Tuesday..best laid plans...", both on nights when she had practice. I monitored her phone for two more weeks and his texts were deleted several times a week.
> 
> Two more events stand out. One, a new player came on the team. This woman is cute and was also flirting with the coach. My wife came home livid about it. On top of this she came home one night saying that her coach's boss had told him that someone had said they were having an affair and that her coach had to clean things up. Another weird thing occurred - at one game a male friend of a friend came up and asked who I was. He thought the coach and my wife were married...
> 
> About two months ago we had our anniversary. I did a pretty good job and really surprised her. However, on the way downtown, she remarked on a piece of architecture saying he liked it and she did not. She went on and on about how he and his wife had gone somewhere to eat and gotten in a discussion on it. She is not into architecture and she mentioned some details about the restaurant that seemed to familiar. The rest of the night was actually pretty good for a change. Until the next day. She was pretty upset.
> 
> I took the time to write out all the timelines and began reading this site.
> 
> Fast forward two weeks later. We went to a charity event associated with her sport. The coach was not there but the boss was. She had a lot to drink and a good time. One the way home we got pretty hot with each other - but had to stop for something. She was texting someone and laughing. I had to take sitter home as well. We had sex but she did not have an O despite being VERY frisky on the way home.
> 
> When I looked at her phone the next day, the texts were gone. I then got a text retrieval tool and recovered the texts and email on her phone.
> 
> She had flirted with the coach while we were driving home and had continued to do so while I was taking the sitter home. I recovered those texts to the history but not the message. I then confronted her the next day.
> 
> She said that she was drunk, etc. That he was just a friend. Etc. A few days later she quizzed me about what I did at the party. (I thinks he thinks I talked to the coach.) I also found out that she had some long email exchanges with him the day after the confrontation..
> 
> We had a long talk - several in fact - and went back to her counselor from her first marriage. We also had some amazing sex. But she would alternate between being sweet to me to being very distant over the next weeks. I also noticed she began to clean her tracks - deleting his emails and locked her phone and changed her pwds. I monitor her history - she still goes out and searches her deleted emails for his - they do not show up at all otherwise..and reads through them. The days she does this she is very distant that night. I have not brought up anything I cannot say she has showed me. Since the confrontation, their texts have dropped off and so have the emails. On top of this, other than one night when she lied about coming home and then running into traffic (gps tracker ) she has been very punctual.
> 
> We have had some long talks about her relationship with the coach. She now admits that she liked him. She now admits that some days are harder than others. She still maintains that not much happened.
> 
> I find that hard to believe given that she re-reads his emails still - over a month after the confrontation.
> 
> I have read some of the books listed on here. I have also told her that I do not like it that she likes him. But have not gone so far as to demand an NC - which would be VERY hard to explain as she is on a highly ranked team and has a lot of friends and our kids are in the early stages of the sport.
> 
> Our sex life has returned and we go to counselling together every other week. We do talk a lot and she calls me and texts me more now. She did have a breakdown on her not reading his emails when I was on my last day of my business trip this week.
> 
> Please keep in mind that I am nobody's fool and am fully aware that this was a full blown EA despite her denials. I know it could have been a PA as well but the logistics would be very hard unless it was very well planned. As an executive I am used to changing peoples' minds and getting them to happily do my bidding.
> 
> What I am looking for is commentary - from her perspective and from the perspective of men who have gotten their wives to come clean and to become happy again - either via a D or by a true R.
> 
> I am greatly pained by her anguish. I sense she has a lot of guilt and a lot of longing. I want to reach her and help her through this while reaching a resolution.


Well Mr. VP and future CEO, consider this.

So you've always been able to get people to do your bidding? Even against their will? You're just humoring yourself. To your detriment.

Your supposed VP and CEO skills are working against you, because they give you the ILLUSION that you're in control...yet you've given control to your cheating wife and her lover. If I were an investor in your company, I'd sell all my stock based upon the naive posts you've made in this forum.

First, you're not in charge of anything really important. You've given control of the important things in life to your wife and her lover.

Second, she's making a fool of you. She's in charge of you. And she's the one who's "making you do her bidding". Sound familiar?

Man, wake up. Your wife has allowed another man to seed her, repeatedly, while you were masturbating.

But you have hope. If you'll stand up to her and do the 180.

Honestly, I wish you good luck.


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## clipclop2

*Re: My story - EA - &gt; PA ?*

Let's reduce this. 

He is here.


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## Gomerpyle

This was a great read on Christmas break. I have to support the OP in a couple of respects. One is that in my own case of a cheating wife, I crossed an important Rubicon in becoming detached from the emotions after having made the decision to enter super spy mode and catch her cold. I was full of gritty determination after that point, viewing all the damning information like a District Attorney going after a conviction, not an accident victim wandering around in shock. 

A couple of her lies made me burst out laughing though, like saying she was baking a cake at a girlfriend's apartment when I had a PI on her tail, right outside the open bedroom window with a recorder going. This was a woman who had never so much as fried an egg. It was so absurd I laughed until tears came down my cheeks. She was flabbergasted, demanding to know why I thought it so funny. I dunno, just sounded funny... 

The other matter is the TAM doctrine that the aggrieved spouse in always blameless. Of course the cheating spouse has to acknowledge the cheating was their decision, and their decision alone. But I just disagree with the abject refusal to look at ourselves and how our own behavior can be such a contributing factor. 

It is nevertheless singularly impressive how much the TAM formula for cheaters is so right. Yeah, it's a script alright and it proved to be true in this case too, didn't it? So people ignore that wisdom at their own peril.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Gomerpyle said:


> The other matter is the TAM doctrine that the aggrieved spouse in always blameless.


Where is this said? No one says the aggrieved spouse is blameless. This is specifically said concerning the ACT of cheating. Yes, I'm splitting hairs because the act is different than the build up. 



> Of course the cheating spouse has to acknowledge the cheating was their decision, and their decision alone.


 This is the TAM DOCTRINE.



> But I just disagree with the abject refusal to look at ourselves and how our own behavior can be such a contributing factor.


We must be reading different threads. Most threads tell the betrayed spouse to look at their behavior and see what they can change.


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## Gomerpyle

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Yes, I'm splitting hairs


We disagree. I do not consider it splitting hairs. I consider it absolutely fundamental and I am not imagining because I just agreed with this opening poster about that very thing. 

I did overstate with "abject refusal" to consider our own behavior, but there is in my opinion an overzealous focusing on blaming the spouse. Most of the reading I have done on this tells us to focus on the thing we can control, which is our own behavior.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Gomerpyle said:


> I consider it absolutely fundamental and I am not imagining because I just agreed with this opening poster about that very thing.


Marriages fail without anyone ever having an affair. People will do the EXACT same things to end a marriage, like:
detach from their spouse
treat them poorly
work too much
Abuse 
ETC. and NEVER CHEAT. 

Cheating is squarely on the wayward spouse, they deserve all of the blame for that act. The problems in the marriage are mutual or sometimes one sided. This is said all over TAM as well. No more overzealous than the people who say "accept blame for the spouse removing their trousers, you pushed them to cheat."



> Most of the reading I have done on this tells us to focus on the thing we can control, which is our own behavior.


Which is what a large segment of posters on TAM state.


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## BobSimmons

wonderif said:


> Hmm. Have to disagree.
> 
> 1. I bugged her phone and computer.
> 2. I found a spy in her other circle of friends.
> 3. I did not do a VAR or PI because I get all the recordings off her phone and I know she is very observant. Look up eidetic when you get a chance. (advice was not to reveal sources..)
> 4. I've already talked to a divorce lawyer.
> 5. I confronted her without giving up my sources and got a full confession.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately a lot of people on this site cannot take advice yet berate others for not taking their advice. TAM is relentlessly "divorce them now" and "Crush them!" when it comes to cheaters.
> 
> Anyone who does not follow the script is immediately written off by regulars. It is a typical human trait inherent in tribal groups. It reinforces social norms.
> 
> One of the norms is that the newb post about being torn up inside, in a lot of pain, does not know what to do. The regulars on here all jump in with white knight advice. Cheater's script is responded to with another script, no matter the people involved or the situation or the various impacts.
> 
> There is no real attempt to discern the seperable characteristics of the people, their past, and the runup in events. Ironies abound.
> 
> One Irony is that "the cheater cannot be a good parent because they are a cheater and did not think of the kids!" followed by "divorce them! take the kids!" Completely contradictory.
> 
> 
> 
> I've responded to constructive comments. And tweaked the beat-the-messenger ones.
> 
> Why is it important for anyone to NEED you? I think you need to do some introspection yourself.
> 
> I don't like people who try to force their views on me. Give me advice. Trust me to interpret it. Trust me to realize that I may be wrong. Listen to what I ask and respond along those lines. That is a healthy approach.
> 
> I know what I need to work on. Why should I publish it here? Just to follow a script?
> 
> I will not criticize the mother of my kids in public nor will I tolerate OT comments. Is that the line I am missing in the script?
> 
> 
> 
> Some of the posters on here are still tilting at windmills past. And reliving past traumas in some form of self-therapy. At some point, everyone needs to move on.
> 
> It is interesting that you bring up Cervantes. It could be an allegory for much of TAM.
> 
> DQ is about deception, madness and then realization. On the surface, the main character lives mostly through what he has read in books, trying to be the White Knight who can save women and the world. Sancho on the other hand knows what he has done and observed.
> 
> The BS posters are the DQ posters on here who are the doormats and the clueless slowly coming to realization. The Sanchos are the posters like weightlifter who have a wealth of real world expertise.
> 
> The WS and the OS are the various characters, some clueless themselves, spouting farce, or some sadistic and cold. We have many wide ranging stories, some horribly awful and some just so.
> 
> The DQ posters move through cluelessness to madness and finally to realization to become good but wiser. The Sanchos try hard to help the DQ posters and sometimes go a little mad themselves trying to help them.


The man has it sorted.


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