# Is he cheating?? Or am I too paranoid??



## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

Ok...this is my first post and I may get a little wordy, but please bare with me. 

My husband and I have been together for 22 years this November and married for 14 years and we have two kids. Up until the end of last year, he was always touching me and kissing me and always wanted me and would always say "I can't believe after all these years, I still can't keep my hands off you!" Now, my problem is that there have been a lot of uneasy signs that he's seeing someone from work. He works ALOT of hours. And honestly if I call him at work he will answer unless in a meeting. 

The reasons for my suspicions are as follows: At the beginning of the year, he suddenly changed. No longer wanted to talk to me, no longer wanted to have sex with me, no longer wanted to touch me in any way shape or form, no longer wanted to hold my hand, no longer held me at night. And always claimed he didn’t know what was wrong! Then we went to an amusement park (he got tickets from work). Met up with this woman and her family from work (but the kids went off on their own). Suddenly, he was wanting me to take my son on a ride, which would have left them alone. I told him "that's okay", and irritated he said just go take him on the ride over there and I said with a firmness in my voice and glancing at her "THAT'S OKAY". That day, I tried to hold his hand a few times and he would pull away and put his had in his pocket. The last time attempted to hold his hand I actually caught him turning his head and rolled his eyes. I said you know what forget it! AND HE GOT MAD AT ME!!!! Pushing my daughter to be friends with her daughter after that day (She has enough friends - even my dd was like, what??). Getting mad at me when the other day I was going with him to his office and he got mad and told me to stay outside to look at flowers. When he was coming out and saw us (me and my son) in the truck he said I just tried calling you and I said no you didn’t my phone didn’t ring, he said Oh, I called the house by mistake. No he didn't, I checked the caller ID when we got home, he didn’t call. I said to him one day that I felt like he was having his cake and eating it too and his reply was, “but I like cake”. A friend of his (male) needed my husband to book a room for him because he didn’t have a credit card. I think I believe him on that one because I know he's got alot of financfial problems, but still not sure. And my personal favorite! Taking his blackberry as a joke and he got mad at me and when I read the first e-mail, it was from of course, the co worker from the park. And it said “I always enjoy it, but today was different.”! Now you need to know that this particular day, was a scheduled day off and he had to go in for coverage for the first couple of hours (he left by 3:30 am and was home by 6:30 - earlier than expected). I even set my alarm for 6:30 so I could call him at work to see if was there, but he was already home. Now if he did go to the work, his trip is an hour each way. His explanation about the e-mail was some @#$%^ about some computer reconstruction that never goes right! Is he kidding?? Even my bf thinks he’s cheating on me. On that day, I broke down in the driveway, I was shaking terribly and SUDDENLY he began to care. “Oh honey, no! Stop it, it’s all fine, there’s nothing going on” so "sincere" as he cupped my face in his hands and looking me dead in the eyes. We have been together 22 years, that is the first time he’s ever done that, trying to be so “sincere”. I know it’s bologna, because all he showed me was that he was trying too hard. Needless to say about a minute later, he was keeled over in the driveway, feeling the need to throw up. Guilt?? 

Then another fave of mine is, he needed to get a prescription of Viagra because of his difficulties and we had sex this one night and it was the best sex we'd had in almost a year. But I didn't think anything of it until the next morning. So I remembered the Viagra and started searching. Nothing in the medicine cabinet. So I went through his laptop case and BINGO! I found the Viagra sample pack and also found that there were 2 missing (really 3, because he took one the night before). When I asked him if he took anything the night before he said no and I looked at him, blood boiling and said seriously?? And then he said no, I took one. My reply was I know and where did the other 2 go!! He said the Dr. told him to try them first, it may not work the first or second time and he went to great lengths to prove that to me. Went on line and found the info and showed it to me. I kind of believe him on that one, but I still have my suspicions. And no, he didn't get mad at me for going through his things. He says he didn't tell me because I was nervous about him taking them with the side effects and all that he didn't want me to worry. And he doesn’t see anything wrong with any of this. He thinks it’s all normal. NOT NORMAL! And on top of all of this, he’s helping her with her drug addict son! And mother of the year goes to...! A little too personally involved if you ask me. When I have an issue or a problem, in true dh tradition, he turns the situation back on me to make me feel it’s my fault in the first place. With some of these things that I just mentioned he understood why my mind went where it did and said "I would feel the same exact way", but now that this all still bothering me, he's getting madder and madder. Am I blowing things out of proportion and being too paranoid, or is there any truth to what my gut is telling me? But I just can't let this go. My gut is telling me something is going on and the worst part about all of this is, I can’t prove a thing. I don’t have access to his computer nor his blackberry (they are company issued). And he knows I won’t drive the distance to his job. It’s the easiest thing for him and he knows it. I told him last week that I loved him more now than I did when we got married and I asked him if he loved me more now than he did then and his answer was no, I love you the same. After I took care of him the way I did when he had his two back surgeries and just the way I take care of him daily, you would think that would be the clincher. If he up to something, he will never admit it, so do I continue to be the sucker?? Without concrete proof, what else do I have?? Besides a husband who's having his cake and eating it too.

Even my son has said a couple times, “I bet daddy has a girlfriend and he’s cheating on you.” That’s nice coming from my 8 year old son.

All of the ways I’d be able to catch him IF he is doing something are not accessible to me. I don’t know what else to do! I feel so trapped. So lost. So confused! And certainly so hurt! All I want is my marriage back. Do I just get used it? Do I try to make him fall in love with me again? 

I'm so sorry this is so long, but I really need help. He keeps saying things are fine and that's there's no problem. Do I just go on pretending that things are "fine"? I'm a good wife (not suggesting that I'm perfect, far from) but I’m kind, I’m attentive, I’m caring, I’m loving. Maybe I’m too much of these things, overkill…I don’t know any other way to be. Am I pushing him away? 

Funny, while I was typing this, he called. He didn't come home last night because he has the big boss coming in today and he was at work late and had to be in early. So I asked him if he missed me, he jokingly said "no" (that's his humor, we're both like that) and I said I'm asking, he said "of course I miss you". He even suggested doing a date night tonight (he's off for the next 3 days). 

One more thing I want to add so you have all the info to make an informed decision. He NEVER goes out! Doesn't hang out with friends. Doesn't go to bars, none of that. Neither do I. He's always home when he says he's going to be. I can call him at work and he's there. Nothing funny on the credit cards. I handle all of the money, and nothing is missing or suspicious there. We use Mac card for everything so I know where's he spending.

This is all why I'm so confused. HELP ME! Again, sorry so long!

Thanks everyone!


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Get ahold of the cell records. Check his emails. Something is way up. You're not paranoid.

Honestly, I'd tell him that you are suspicious and that whatever is going on needs to stop immediately. You don't appreciate being played for a fool.

Then see what he does. But first get those records.


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

Thanks for the response dobo. I can't check e-mails or track his cell. It's all company issued and everything is password protected (company required). And I have told him what I've been feeling numerous times. He understands why I feel the way I do and says he would feel the same way. But when I don't like his answers because they seem unrealistic (like with the computer reconstruction) he gets annoyed. He said there's nothing to stop because there's nothing going on.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Then ask him to explain the timing of his pulling away from you. And if there is nothing going on, why has the marriage faltered? Is he happy as things are even knowing that you are not?

Where are the viagra pills now? Does he understand they belong at home? 

You can still ask him to open up his accounts to you right then and there.


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

I did ask him when all of this started. He said he didn't know. He stressed over and over again that he didn't even know why he was the way he was. He was just shelled up inside himself. I thought maybe an early mid-life crisis. He thinks I'm being paranoid. Actually, his demeanor towards me is fine now. We're having sex when time allows, doesn't even need the pills anymore. And they are home they're in medicine cabinet and I check the count often. They are all still there. And he's had no problem showing me his blackberry (it's all linked to his laptop, so the info is the same). He's given it to me and said here look through it, I don't care, I have nothing to hide. This is why I'm so confused. He could be confident because he's deleting stuff right away or maybe there is nothing going on, and he really does have nothing to hide. I know you're thinking this chick is so naive, and maybe I am when it comes to certain things. But I know my husband a very long time. We're high school sweethearts, been together since we're 16. He was at my Sweet 16 party! I never dated anyone but him even as a teenager. He was my first date, first kiss, first "time" and we've been through so much together. So, if I seem naive this is why. He is truly a good person, would give you the shirt off his back, really he would. This is why this is so confusing to me. I'm not making excuses by any means, I just wanted to tell what kind of person he is.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

I'm thinking that whatever went on is over. And it might not have been very much, just a fantasy or emotional affair. that's not to reduce the pain of a spouse having any sort of relationship with someone else... but if he's back and you love him, show him you love him and move forward.

SOmeday he might tell you everything. But he might not to avoid hurting you. You have to think about what level of disclosure you could handle. I couldn't handle any. (But I'd want to know and would probably dig until I've effectively destroyed everything. I don't suggest you be like me!)

Consider seeing someone to talk about your concerns if what you get 'round the net isn't helping.

I guess I'm glad things are better for you.


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

LOL! I thought about the continuing digging. But I have my kids to think about. And honestly, if there is/was something going on, I would live in agony, and my bf thinks I'm nuts, but I don't want my family to despair over what could be nothing. I know him, I don't think he would tell me. He's not a conversational person by nature and wouldn't share anyway. I thought about going to see a therapist. As a matter of fact, I even said that to him a couple of months ago about seeing a marriage counselor. And he said we can go if that's what you want, but there's no reason to go. And I've asked him numerous times if I did something wrong causing him to feel the way he did and he flat out said No, it's nothing to do with you, it's me and I can't figure it out. Maybe he was pushing me away to try to figure it out? I just don't know. The other things I think about flat out make me cry. Like the e-mail for instance. I'm trying to re-focus and get the thoughts out of my head. Sometimes is works. Others...well...you know.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Do you believe he is still doing something behind your back? Do you think it is over? 

I wish I could help you. I wish I could tell you what to do or that it will get better. I don't know. I'm hurting just thinking about how twisted you must be feeling inside. It is almost like going crazy because you don't know what is real anymore.


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

I'm not sure. I forgot to mention that Monday evening right before we left for my dd's back to school night, his blackberry rang. He answered and after he said hello, he cleared his throat quite loudly and said yeah, a little bit. I knew it was "her" and when he mentioned counceling I definitely new. So I flat out asked him who called and he told me. And I told him that I thought it was suspicious with the clearing of the throat and the yeah a little bit, sounded like code to me. And he got really peaved, didn't talk to me for the rest of the night and all he said was, I'm getting in trouble for clearing my throat! Maybe I was out of bounds I don't even know anymore. I want to believe that nothing is going on just for the sake of my sanity. I would much rather him come out and tell me "I am seeing her, I think you and I are over" than for me to keep wondering, not knowing and not trusting. I would be completely devastated!!!!! But at least I can move on in peace. That's NOT what I want, but at least I would then know.

I really appreciate you taking such an interest in my problem and all the things you've said. You're a good person. And for the record, I do feel like I'm going crazy! I was crazy before, OH BOY! LOL!


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

LOL!

Sorry to hear about Monday. It isn't over. 

He is lying, he is cheating. And he's playing you.

Why is this woman calling him Monday evening or any evening for that matter? Would you be willing to confront her? 

Would you be willing to hire a PI? 

Does she know he's sleeping with you again? (Probably not.) Why don't you just ask him that point blank and suggest that once she knows she's being lied to, too, she might sing a different tune about him as well as spilling the beans on the entire thing.

Where are you? I'll follow him! ;-)

You really need surveillance and information. That's the only thing you need. And since he won't provide it you are going to have to go to longer lengths to get it. That means finding proof. You can't be afraid to go to his work or to talk to his friend or to show him that he can't lie anymore, that you will check on what he is telling you.

I had to do that with my ex-. It wasn't cheating but he would lie and I would do nothing, knowing he was lying. Finally I got on the phone and called for instance, the accountant, when he said that $$ was for taxes and I got on the phone with the bartender at the bar he hung out with and asked questions (want to talk about putting a guy on the spot?! But he ended up being honest with me he was so shocked.) Stuff like that. 

You probably have more resources than you think. Cheaters often involve others to help them cover up but those people don't expect to be questioned or if they handle it, tell the cheater to find someone else. Bring down the heat on this guy. Empower yourself.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Always go with your gut! If he has never cheated before and now your gut is telling your something is up...then it is.

Figure out what you would do if you catch him or he admits it. Would you stay or go? Would you want to work it out? Would he?


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

He said she was calling him to let him know how it went with the drug counselor for her son. And when I told him that he should have had the contact person he set her up with deal with it and that he didn't need to be so personally involved with the situation and that it was her and her husbands place to deal with it he said "now I'm in trouble because I was trying to help someone out, I'm helping alot of people at work with problems that they're having." Just so you know he a boss. I'm all for helping people, I'm always helping my friends or anyone else for that matter who need it. It's the right thing to do.

I've checked his truck inside and out, under seats what have you, I've checked his bag that he keeps all of his work stuff in, you name it I've checked. Even pockets in the back of the closet, inside shoes, I can go on. And nothing. I'm not afraid to drop by his job, its the trip there. I don't drive major interstates I have anxiety issues. I would hire a PI but that's costly. And I don't know the people he works with well enough to confront them. I was researching listening devices that I can plant under his seat of his truck, but they're so expensive.

Oh and last week when I brought this up to him again, he said if you would just talk to her at the Christmas Party or where ever, you'll see, there's nothing going on. I said people who have something to hide, will. 

And I'm sorry you had to go through what you went through. Why are men so ignorant??


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

Hi Corpuswife. I think at this point, because this has been going on since earlier in the year and I've confronted him so many times, if there is something going on, he'll be more careful because he knows I'm suspecting. 

I don't know what I would do to be honest. He may decide to leave, I don't know what would happen. I'm not leaving my home, that's one thing for sure.

And if I am being paranoid and he's not doing anything wrong, I don't want to drive him in the direction of someone else. I'm stuck is what I am.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

How about her husband? What does he think? Now there is an ally to talk to. 

Companies also have policies against being involved with a subordinate.

But Corpus asked a good question -- what will you do if he is having an affair?

Something else to consider is asking him if he's seen how upset this has made you and how concerned you are about your marriage, why he has chosen to continue contact with this woman outside of business? Doesn't he care how much this is hurting you? Even if he is innocent, completely, 100%, he is choosing this other woman's issues over the person he swore to honor and cherish. Why? Why is he so willing to harm you to help her? She's got family. She has others to turn to. If your husband were hit by a car she'd survive. But you and your family, they need him in ways that this woman cannot or should not. Why is he doing this to the family?


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

I don't know him, I only met her twice. I don't even know her last name, which my bf had an idea to find out what it is and she if she has a my space page.

See that's just it, I don't know if it's outside of work?? I know nothing. And he knows how devastated I've been. There were days I was standing in the driveway having a smoke and he was with me and I was shaking uncontrollably crying and he'd say why are you so upset, there's nothing...so on and so on. If he's helping that's fine, have absolutely no problem with that, it's part of his job and his nature to do so. 

I don't know what I would do. I'm not leaving my home, I know that.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Ask your husband the woman's last name. Why are you afraid to be ask more questions when without answers, you will remain a total wreck? 

And why your husband isn't doing more to help you only makes me think he's really guilty.

My husband would be upset that I didn't trust him but he'd open up everything to me.


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

I don't want to ask him her last name because I don't want him to know that I'll be researching her. He has all of his employee files in his bag, he should be bringing it home tonight because he's off the next 3 days, so when he's in the shower I'll see if her file is in there. It should be. 

The kicker.............he is upset that I don't trust him!


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

But he's already said that he understands how it looks at times...

Maybe you could search linkedin by company name and see if she pops up.


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

I know,the good old double standard! I thought about that too. But he'll be home tonight, so I can just check his bag. 

See my husband is a smirker when he lies, and I'm not saying I haven't seen any smirks but I really haven't with the big stuff. Unless he's just getting good at lying.


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## peanut (Aug 4, 2009)

Pinky,

My husband is the boss where he is at too and he sounds as if he has the same personality as your husband. My husband and I are ALSO high school sweethearts from the age of 16. Too many similiarities, huh? 

My husband likes to have an "open door" policy at his work. Many of the people who work for him are single/divorced women. He doesn't understand that when he shows kindness (as in fixing a woman's car or listening to her problems) it shows concern and that the woman will take it as if he has feelings for her. I told him that women are always on the prowl and are looking for a strong shoulder to lean on, even if that man is married. My husband says he has no feelings for any of these women and that he always comes home to me and loves me. He doesn't understand that he is sending mixed signals to these women. He gets very upset if I mention it to him and gets defensive and says he isn't foolish.

I still look at my husband's blackberry when he isn't around. He has the same things-a work issued phone and laptop which is password protected. He also says I can look at it whenever I want, but the "delete" button is such a nice conveinence, it is not worth even looking at his emails. I did once and saw that this one woman sent him an email and signed it "love you" and it was a very short, but personal email. He said he had no clue what it was and said he would speak with her. He seemed very caught off guard with it too. Many of her emails from her say love you at the bottom of it. Well, he had a talk with "her" supervisor and supposedly they all sat together and my husband told her that everything has to be professional and that there are no more personal issues anymore. The only thing is, he says this, but then doesn't "act like the boss" but as a "friend." He doesn't understand there is a code of conduct and maybe your husband doesn't realize that either. 

I feel for you and I was and still am, very jealous. I have been married 22 years this year and I should trust my husband, but if they don't give you that security anymore and make you doubt them....how can you not check up on them and look through their things?

I also feel for you because I have the same sort of circumstances as you, but I DID tell my husband that if I ever find out there was something going on with this co-worker, it is over. The trust will never be there again. I know I can make it on my own. I have 3 children, 2 whom are in college and one in high school. So, they will be fine...you have to look out for yourself. I love my husband, as I am sure you do too. It is hard when they don't realize they are breaking your heart and hurting your feelings.

I hope all works out well for you. Hopefully he realizes what a good thing he has at home and doesn't forfiet his loving family for this other woman.


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## Lizzie60 (Sep 13, 2009)

Of course he is cheating.. come on.. you know it.. deep down you know but you just don't want to believe it..

Why do people always need undeniable proofs... maybe you will NEVER have concrete proofs.. and he will cheat all his life.. 

I just don't get it.. :scratchhead:

If you want concrete proofs.. hire a PI... maybe he will find the proofs you need to move on with your life.. 

Because, right now.. all you do is watch him.. being hurt and miserable.. he will drive you insane..


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## peanut (Aug 4, 2009)

Everyone wants to hire a P.I, but doesn't realize the cost of that. Plus, how do you find the money for that if both husband and wife deals with the money in the relationship?
Plus, if he isn't cheating, proved from the P.I., how do you like yourself afterwards after you hire this P.I. How do you keep this secret without it destroying yourself and your relationship? And if he ever found out that you hired someone to follow him/her, I think it would put an end to the relationship eventually because it is a trust issue. There are definately pros and cons to the whole ordeal.

You might feel better afterwards, but those thoughts will always be with you. At least, that is how I would feel.


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## Lizzie60 (Sep 13, 2009)

I know this could be expensive.. but how do you feel to live in a miserable, painful marriage.. not knowing.. constantly doubting.. being consumed by jealousy.. etc..


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## Bernadine (Sep 5, 2009)

Pinkie,
I agree with Lizzie if you need concrete proof now-- put aside as much as you can each month. It really doesn't cost that much. I hired a PI with my ex. But the real question is what will you do if the information confirms that he is having an affair. It prepared me to move one. I went through different emotions not only had my ex husband cheated he fathered a child with this woman, which I learned later. If you're not reay to leave your husband don't waste the money. I know the feelings you're experiencing-- you feel rejected, humiliated and being played a fool among other things. 
One thing you can do for yourself is focus on you more you need 
to be loved-- you can do that better than anyone at this time. 
Do something different-- go get a totally different haircut, buy an outfit that's totally different that what you usually wear. Get one of your friends to babysit and go out-- even to a movie alone but don't be home when he gets there. And when he calls-- you forgot to turn your cell phone on. I started doing things like that how about what used to take my ex-husband 8-10 hours to get home from work then started taking the thirty minutes that it should have taken in the first place. He even declared all that he had been doing was over. But by then it didn't matter--- I was completely over him. Try it.


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

WOW! I can't believe the support system I have here! I was so nervous about posting this morning, now I can't be happier. Thanks guys!

Now, Peanut, I can't believe the similarities. Funny again...My husband and I will be together 22 yrs in early November. Our hubbies do sound alot alike. And I never thought of it that way before. Maybe she's mistaking his kindness for something else and because we've been together for so long, he has a boosted ego...It does make sense though right?? 

As far as the PI, that's something I really need to think about. That's a huge step and like what Peanut said, if it proves he's not cheating, yes I will feel better, but then I have a whole other new problem to face and that can end up worse than what I'm going through now. 

He called me today and I asked him if he missed me to see what he'd say and jokingly he said "no" and I said I'm asking and he said "of course I miss you" then a couple of minutes later said let's have a date night tonight, I can go for ribs, told me to call the video store and rent a movie and he just wanted to hang out. This is where I get confused.


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## Bernadine (Sep 5, 2009)

P-
It sounds like he is trying. Try hard not to focus on her and 
enjoy being together. BTW I'll pass this along to you pick up the book Love Dare it helps.


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

Thank you so much Bernadine. That does make me feel better! You guys are awesome! Truly! All of this support means so much to me I can't even say. I really wish I knew you guys. Really great support system. I'm definitely going to be a regular here. And thanks for the tip on the book. I'm going to run out this week and pick it up.


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## foolz1 (Sep 5, 2009)

Pinky, I hate to say this, but it certainly appears that something is going on in your marriage. People are very good at hiding their indiscretions, believe me, I have been there, unfortunately. Are you sure you really want to know? Many people don't, because if they knew for sure they have no clue as to what to do in the aftermath. 

I am so sorry that you are going through all of this. Since communication is an issue in your marriage, it is a lot harder, still. I am not trying to add additional stress to your life, but you may be in denial. I see many clues that this co-worker is involved in some way with your husband.

Does his company have a website? If so, you should be able to look up this person that has injected herself into your marriage. There are also many other things you could do to get to the truth, if it is what you really wish to know. 

Do you by chance have her phone number? There are ways to discover what a spouse is up to with little or no cost to you. I hope I am wrong, but it all seems pretty hinky to me.(((HUGS))) to you!


Pinky said:


> I'm not sure. I forgot to mention that Monday evening right before we left for my dd's back to school night, his blackberry rang. He answered and after he said hello, he cleared his throat quite loudly and said yeah, a little bit. I knew it was "her" and when he mentioned counceling I definitely new. So I flat out asked him who called and he told me. And I told him that I thought it was suspicious with the clearing of the throat and the yeah a little bit, sounded like code to me. And he got really peaved, didn't talk to me for the rest of the night and all he said was, I'm getting in trouble for clearing my throat! Maybe I was out of bounds I don't even know anymore. I want to believe that nothing is going on just for the sake of my sanity. I would much rather him come out and tell me "I am seeing her, I think you and I are over" than for me to keep wondering, not knowing and not trusting. I would be completely devastated!!!!! But at least I can move on in peace. That's NOT what I want, but at least I would then know.
> 
> I really appreciate you taking such an interest in my problem and all the things you've said. You're a good person. And for the record, I do feel like I'm going crazy! I was crazy before, OH BOY! LOL!


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

Thank you Foolz1 for your input. I really appreciate all of the advice from everyone. Truth is I'm not in denial. If I was, I don't think I would have entered my post. But the truth is, I know my husband better than anyone, including his own family. He's been off of work Fri, Sat and tomorrow (Sunday) and honestly, it's been like normal. He's been his old goofy self, hardly on his blackberry, joking around, touchy touchy, making me laugh like we did a year ago (and 20 years before that). And he's noticed that I was quiet yesterday (Friday) and even asked if I was okay. We worked in the garden together, laughing and just working together winterizing the back yard. He took me out for breakfast yesterday morning (just the 2 of us, kids are at school). And it was nice.

And tonight, he made a comment that I've been quiet, he asked "what's the matter with you?" and I told him that I've been wanting to ask him a question for the past couple of days but I was nervous to ask. He said "well, ask me". So I said "I know you love me, but there is a difference, are you still in love with me?" He said staring directly into my eyes, not even a blink "Of course I'm still in love with you" and then jokingly called me an idiot (again that's always been our personality). Is it at all possible that I'm just too needy and losing my mind? Is it possible that everything is fine and I'm reading too much into things?? Is it possible that I'M THE ONE whose going through a mid-life crisis and not him?? I don't want to be the fool nor do I want to condemn a totally innocent person. 

We were out shopping all day with our kids (13 and 8) and we went out to dinner and everything was great. The kids were so well behaved and we laughed and goofed. Like it's always been. 

Please tell me that you think everything is fine and that I'm just a retard! Or whatever you think the truth may be. 

It was all truly normal. Am I the one who needs help?


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Pinky, you know what you know -- his behavior was tell-tale. But it does seem as though he's trying to get his head back on straight. My paranoia worries that this is a ruse, but maybe it isn't. Maybe your sadness finally got through to him. She wasn't really worth it, not enough to hurt you the way he was hurting you.

Just see where this goes and be honest with him about your feelings. 

Don't start questioning your sanity and what you experienced, saw and interpreted. He's still in the wrong because of what this has done to his head. But if he is truly done with her, you'll begin to see changes and he'll start to put her off when she wants to lean on him. You'll see less intrusiveness into your time at home.

I'm hoping that's the case. 

But remember, you're not too needy and you're not messed up. You didn't make it through so many years of marriage because you're needy and crazy.


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

Thank you Dobo. That means so much to me. 

He was off again today, and again, like this past year never happened. I have one more thing I need to do (call the pharmacy to make sure that that refill is still existing) if all goes well with that, I'm moving on. I am completely torturing myself and frankly I'm p-ssing myself off.


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

Well I just called the pharmacy and the refill is still there. But why don't I feel any better?? We had "you know" last night. And it was great, but different. Nothing outrageous by any means, but not the usual. I can't explain the feeling I had. Is it because I still have all of this stuff on my mind that I can't seem to let go of that I'm overthinking everything he does? I truly feel like I'm losing my mind. He's back to the way he always was. Calling me Hun, Babe, flicking me or tapping when I walk by him. Very nice. My thoughts are this...Is he trying really hard to get me off his tracks, trying to make me think that everything is back to normal when he knows it's not? Is whatever he was doing (again, if anything) over and he's ready to be plugged back in? Was there nothing going on in the first place and he just sorted out whatever was bothering him and he's back? I just don't understand what is going on in my head. I'm thinking that I'm just gonna go with the flow, keeping my eyes open of course. I think if I relax about all of this, if there is something going on, he will eventually let his guard down and begin to get sloppy. 

Now I have a question. He said to me a few of weeks ago, "She invited us over so we can see her tiger (yes I said tiger). Why don't we go so you can see for yourself that there is nothing going on." And of course I said "NO". Do you think we should go??


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## peanut (Aug 4, 2009)

That is a tough question to answer. When my husband had an emotional affair, and I didn't know it was going on, he and I would go over to this "other person's" house for dinner and so forth. (she was married) I think in their heads it is okay to have a relationship if we are "friends" with the other person. I was very angry after I found out about the relationship and told him I can't believe he was with this other person when we were all "friends." He said, "you were never friends with her." :scratchhead: But, if you don't go, he might hold it against you and still go the path he is taking. Make sense? You probably don't want to go, which I don't blame you, but hey...take the kids...show this other woman there is a family involved. Hold your hubby's hand and make him show affection towards you in front of her. Don't make it obvious to your husband, or he'll get upset, but just act normal. Might be good!!! And a tiger? She sounds like a winner!


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

LOL! Tell me about it. I guess too, if we go and he pulls away like he did at the park, that would be a sign too. Everything you said makes complete sense.

I hope you don't mind my asking, but how did you find out about your husband this "friend"?


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## foolz1 (Sep 5, 2009)

Like Peanut said, go over there but be sure to be affectionate with your husband and see if he seems uncomfortable when you are showing him affection. That would be a huge clue, as usually when someone is having an affair it is awkward for them when their SO shows affection in front of the OW (if, in fact she is).

No, I do not think you are crazy, in the least.


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

I think that's what I'm going to do. He wants to sit outside tonight and hang out with me, so maybe I'll bring it up tonight. I just have to figure out what to say and how to say it so he doesn't get the feeling that I'm setting him up. I really hate playing these games, it's really annoying. I am the most honest person you'll ever meet, I hate lying and games, so this is really difficult for me.


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## peanut (Aug 4, 2009)

Well, this time, (a few months ago) my husband was getting emails from a woman at work and she signed them "love you." He said there is NOTHING going on and he had a chat with her supervisor at work with her there, and told her that everything has to be professional. So...I do not think anything happened there. I just so happened to be using his computer and an "email confirmation" popped up on his screen saying "hi from Rosie." I thought it was an IM, but it was an email. I clicked on it and saw it.

But...about 10 years ago, is what I was chatting about in the above post. I knew NOTHING about it. How I found out about it was the other woman's husband came to my house and said, "I think your husband and my wife are having an affair." I was devastated and had no clue. We didn't have cell phones then, so there was no calls...She wasn't from work, but we did a lot of volunteer work for a little loop football league, which she was on the board with. So, it was kind of like working with her, since he was the president and she was the secretary. (ironic, huh?)
I think when people work closely at work, they really create a bond and one or both act on it "romantically." You figure, they spend more time at work, than at home. I don't know about your husband, but mine doesn't really share his work hours with me. He says he wants to come home and relax and not deal with that part of his life.


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

Well it's funny that you quoted "I think your husband and my wife are having an affair" because I was thinking that too if we did go to her house. I wonder if her hubby is suspecting anything. If I'm there and he's there, he may be inclined to say something if he knew something. I think I'm going to do this. I'm scared as hell. Part of me just wants to leave everything alone, make myself as irrisistable as possible and go on with our life. The other part wants to dig, dig and dig some more. The only that's losing that deal is me. I don't know......maybe I don't want to know.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

I wouldn't bring it up unless he does, honestly. If he's done with her, why raise the dead? If he's not, as you said, he will eventually tip his hand.

Honestly, how anyone could think that seeing someone together would allay fears is beyond me. How would you know nothing is going on? Unless he were to plant massive kisses on you the entire time, have his hand on your leg while you sit closely on the couch, and tell you right in front of her that he loves you like life, it'd be difficult to believe that the entire thing wasn't a setup. And even then, it could still be. 

I think the farther this woman is from your life, the better. And the last thing you want is for your kids to know and like her.


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

I'm sorry I didn't understand what you meant by If he's not, as you said, he will eventually tip his hand. 

So do you think I should just leave well enough alone and move on? He's acting the way he always has and I don't want to keep bringing this up and ruin what could be genuine. If indeed that's what it is. 

I don't want anyone to think that I'm blind or stupid. I've been getting so many mixed signals these last few months...is he doing something, no he's not doing something, no wait he's doing something, blah blah blah, this point in time is the most stable things have been. Maybe it's like you said the other day dobo, maybe whatever it was is over. Or is he covering up to get me off his scent? I don't know anymore.


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## peanut (Aug 4, 2009)

I don't think you should go there, as dobo says, to allay fears...I think you should go to show this other woman that there is a family involved. Also, if there IS something going on between the two, it will show her that you and your husband are still together. Maybe he is telling her it is over between the two of you. If so, this will cause some friction between them and maybe put an end to it. 
I confronted the woman after I found out and she said that she and my husband did "alot of things together." All were lies, I eventually found out. I think the other woman might see it for all its worth and back off a bit. 
And, when I say to go to her house, I don't mean to go there and spend the day. I mean to go, show your face, show her that you and your husband are happy and leave. Short, but sweet. From past experience, you need to do this because if you don't, you'll always wonder about her. As Dobo says, distance is the best thing, but didn't you ever hear the saying, "keep your friends close, but your enemies closer?" And, your husband will still have working relationships with her and the only person who will be distant from the situation is you.


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

He's the one who said she invited us and that if we went I would see that there's nothing going on. So the invite is there. My thought too is, if there was something going on, why would she invite his family? 

And that's what I hate! The fact that he still has to work with her. 

I'm sure she'll be at the Christmas Party this year. And that will be here before we know it. That should be grand day!


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## peanut (Aug 4, 2009)

I tell you...your situation really sounds similar to mine. I'll see the other woman and it will make me so upset inside. Hubby isn't fazed a bit by it. He'll even say funny comments like, "here comes your friend." It really bothers me. Plus, I hate bringing up about her to him because it frustrates him also. I want day to day procedings about her because it is important to me and he feels it is irrelevant if she speaks to him because supposedly it is all work related. I thought about it constantly and still do once in awhile. It is VERY stressful and I still can't get over it. Even if nothing happened, it is still a trust issue for me. Plus my husband is like yours...very affectionate and touchy. I think about it too much and wonder if he showed me this much attention before and I am just over analyzing it? I feel for you. It does get a bit better, but you are constantly watching for something or for him to slip up. Then you wonder if people at work know something you don't and you feel ackward, kind of, when you go to his work.


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

THAT IS EXACTLY IT PEANUT! That's ALL I can think about! Even when I'm sleeping. I had a dream the other night that my kids were her kids and all I could think about in the dream was, how is this possible?? My husband was always touchy and goofy and suddenly stopped everything even holding my hand at the beginning of the year and now for the last couple of weeks started again. 

Peanut, what do you think?? Should I go to her house or should I just let this go. Because I would have to talk to my husband and tell him that I would go.

I can't believe how similar our sits. are


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

I think the most important thing is, whatever you do, do it and don't look back -- don't second guess yourself.

What I meant about tipping his hand is that if he's stopped, great. If he's trying to fool you, it will become clear eventually, anyway. It isn't like you aren't tuned into this frequency. 

I do think something was going on and I believe he's lying. Some men for instance, don't view EAs as cheating. Some also don't think that anything but full-blown intercourse is cheating. Some even think that oral is OK. What's your husband's line for what constitutes cheating? That will tell you whether he believes his own BS or not.

I do suspect that you got to him and he's ended it. But everyone knows that it is hard to really end it, especially with the other person in your life at such close range. So this time right now, it touchy. 

The "keep your enemies closer" thing only works if your enemies don't suspect that you're suspicious. This one almost certainly knows. So she's not going to tip her hand. And, she already knows she is messing with a family. If she cared, she would have turned elsewhere.

Did you ever get her last name? 

One last thought -- imagine hearing your kids going on and on about this tiger and this lady they met. How's that going to feel after a while? 

LOL! I was just thinking what I would want to do if I went over her house -- offer to help her in the kitchen and then fling her up against the wall and tell her in no uncertain terms, that if she goes near my husband again, she'll wish she had never been born.


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

LOL! I want to do more than fling her up against a wall! 

I didn't think about that though with the tiger. They have met her though at the park that I mentioned when all of this started.

His idea of cheating is the true sense of the word. So if he's doing it, he knows what he's doing.

I was also thinking about just idle chatter about her. Asking him how her son is doing, etc... Make him think that I'm over the whole thing just enough for him to let his guard down. 

And no I didn't get her last name. I checked in his bag when he fell asleep, but it was just his Asst. Mgr. files and he only has their first names on the folders. I don't know any other way to find it out. Unless I get him to think that I'm really fine now and in the next couple of weeks, just find a way to ask. I also want to ask him if he's spoken to her about our issues that we've been going through, I'm sure he won't tell me the truth, but I will be able to read the look on his face. Though, he may, he's been offering info that I haven't even asked for, I guess to try to prove his innocence. But then again, I don't want to p*ss him off either.

Dobo - what would you do? Go to the house or let it go?


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## peanut (Aug 4, 2009)

Oh...I wanted to say something to the other woman when I see her at my husband's work too. I just always feel, "why lower myself to her level." I always tell my husband that one day I am going to say something and he just kind of laughs a bit. I would not want to embarrass him at work though. It does builds up I am just waiting for her to say something personal to me about my life or something (something that she wouldn't know unless hubby told her) and then I figured I would say something. I don't want to be the outrageous jealous wife at home, ya know? 
Dobo, you are correct in thinking the kids would talk alot about the tiger. Especially at the age of Pinky's kids. But, it is a 50/50 situation with bringing the kids. Maybe you should just go with hubby to her house. Take the kids to a relative's or friend's house and "test the waters" at this other woman's house. I am assuming she is married, right? I definately would go. Avoiding it will make you think about it more. Plus, if you don't go, would he go without you? Just some thoughts...


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

I don't think I could handle going to the OW's house to tell you the truth. It'd only give me more to have negative obsessive thoughts about. 

I think I would continue to try to learn all I can about her. Don't you know anyone else who works w/your husband? From previous Christmas parties, perhaps? 

And, I would ask that friend about the room that was booked... or that guy's wife. (Yeah, the wife if he has one.)

As much as I'd like to say that I would take the advice to let things go and try to accept the good that's going on now and put the past behind me, I would have to know the truth. I hope you aren't like me because the outcome of learning the truth could be really unpleasant. This idea of what you don't know doesn't hurt you only works if you don't have *any* clue or you don't have the kind of brain that turns things over and over again.


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

Peanut, unless he goes and doesn't tell me, he wouldn't just say "oh, i'm going to so and so's house on Saturday". That he wouldn't do. He does spend all of his time home on his days and nights off. That's one of the confusing things about all of this. If he's not at work, he's home. When he comes home, he stays in his work clothes all night, which to be honest drives me completely insane (that's just a quirk of mine - I'm an extremely anal person). 

And I don't want to embarass him either, especially if I'm wrong. You take that back. And there would be no way of going there without the kids because that's why we were invited, so the kids could see him. And yes, she is married.

Dobo, I know people that he works with but not well enough to confind in. They are very dedicated to my husband. He has a lot of fans and I don't want to be outed. Plus it will make him look bad at work and give him a bad reputation, again, especially if it's undeserved. Even if there is something going on, I DON'T want to publicly humiliate him.

So, I think I'm just going to do what I said. I'm going to make him think that I'm over it and just begin acting concerned for her situation with her son. The more relaxed I seem, the more likely he'll slip up.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

I think that sounds like a good plan.


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## peanut (Aug 4, 2009)

Pinky, you have to do what YOU think is right. That is the bottom line. So, I also think that is a good plan if you feel that is what you should do. :iagree:You have to live with him, you are married to him...we aren't. You always can change your mind on things. That is the good thing about it all...
It will eat at you if you think about it too much. In all honesty, it will make you depressed. So, live your life as you would if it didn't happen. If something does come up, and it points to him having an affair, then deal with it then. But, keep your eyes open.


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

Okay. Well we're supposed to be hanging out tonight outside. He's bringing home a new patio heater, so we should be out for a while (don't know where you guys are, but it's getting really cold here).
So, I will begin prepping tonight. You guys ROCK! I don't know how I would've gotten through the last couple of days without you. I will let you know tomorrow how I made out.


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## hideandseek (Sep 21, 2009)

Hi,

I'm new here, too. My husband had an affair for 7 or 8 years with a co-worker and I brushed aside all the signs and made excuses. I wish I knew then what I know now.

I'm not sure if anyone suggested this yet as this thread causes me a lot of PTSD 'triggers' (one of the wonderful side-effects of adultery), but have you purchased a VOR (voice activated recorder)?

Sony makes one for about 40 bucks and you can plant in his car or around the house and it will only record when activated. It makes no noise as it is digital. You can then retrieve and hear his voice conversations, telephone conversations etc.

Also, if you manage to have access to his work computer (is it a laptop?) maybe he brings it home, you can look for his .ipd file and copy it onto a jump drive. This is the 'home' file for his bberry. You can then download a free 30-day trial for an .ipd viewer and read all his recent and deleted bberry messages. Once you have this proof there is no denying it anymore. Also, you may want to pick up the book "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass. It was and continues to be my lifesaver. It helped me understand what was happening in my life and why this happened to me.


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

I appreciate that Peanut. That's my plan. I can't let this get to me. My life is worth more than this. What hurts me most is that I've always put my husband on a pedastal. Usually have my hair the way he likes it, try and have the house done before he gets home, dinners hot (usually), put his clothes out for him for work the next day, make his lunch for work, etc. I don't know how it got to this. I'm not whipped by any means, I choose to do it. He actually gets annoyed with me. He always says, "you're my wife, not my maid". But I do it because I want to. I know he appreciates it, it's the other stuff I'm not understanding. And without sounding like a broken record, I have no proof of anything. But I live my life by my gut. God wouldn't given it to us, if we weren't going to listen to it.

You guys are awesome!


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

If it doesn't work out with him, I'll marry you. Gotta break the news to my husband though. Might be tricky. ;-)


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

LOL! Dobo! YOU CRACK ME UP! LOL! I don't know, depends on the man, most men would be thrilled! LOL!

Hideandseek - I wanted to do just that, but couldn't find what I was looking for. Can you get me the exact name of it and where I can get it? That would be awesome. That's all I would need. I don't have access to his laptop or blackberry. They are company issued and password protected. If you could do that for me, I'll throw you an on-line party! It will be National Hideandseek Day! LOL! Please, I would appreciate it very much! And I hope you don't mind my asking...Are you and your husband still together.


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## hideandseek (Sep 21, 2009)

I have a Sony VOR but the software is incompatible with 32-bit Vista which seems to be the most popular OS these days. I wish I had bought this: Panasonic Digital Voice Recorder (RRUS550S). I live Canada so I got mine from Future Shop but they are available at Best Buy or Radio Shack.

If your husband brings his laptop home and he goes to the bathroom, the computer won't lock up right away. It will take you two minutes at the most to run a search for the .ipd file and transfer it to a USB flash drive. No need for the blackberry at all. 

You can also try the tactic: If you have nothing to hide, then give me your passwords. If he agrees, he will delete everything (so he thinks), there are ways to corrupt Outlook .pst files but it's complicated and time consuming. He will not know to delete the .ipd, though. 

You can also install a keylogger. Some spyware can be sent via email and all he'd have to do is open it and it's installed. Then, you get sent screenshots of what he is doing. BUT, they sometimes don't work through work firewalls and there's a legal aspect to it.

The VOR is the easiest.

I also planted my son's cellphone which had a kidtracking device on it and used it to track him for awhile, I could follow his truck online when he should have been at work.

My story is a bit complicated: I put up with my husband's emotional abuse for years (caused by an two affairs I had no knowledge of) until I asked for a divorce. We agreed to stay in the house until I found a new one, a good job and the kids finished the school year. We were getting along, I thought: if I move out and prove to him that I am worth something maybe he'[ll want me back. A month and a half before I moved out I discovered his emotional affair with an ex-coworker and then a week later his physcial affair with a current co-worker, both lasting in the years. I continued with my plan to move away. Things were messy for a time. Then I went no contact, I dated. It drove him insane. Here I was a woman that had catered to his every need moving on without him. Strong, confident alive. In January we decided to try to reconcile. We did not move back together but dated, vacationed and lots of marriage and individual counselling. He stalled on telling me the truth of the affair. After months, I lost patience and he finally started telling me things but he backtracks, lies, changes his mind and 'doesn't remember'. We are currently on a 'break' but I feel in my heart it is forever. He will not stop lying. I also can't reconcile in my heart who I thought he was and who he turned out to be. Plus, I am alone but there is a level of calm and peace in my life now. 

He will always try to blame me for the affairs. I'm bad at finances, so he had affairs. He will always compartmentalize his life from me, he will always use lies to keep me feeling uneasy and unsafe. He will never stop trying to gaslight me.

This past two years from rock bottom to being alone and comfortable with it have been the hardest of my life, but I have hope that I will find my true path.

I am working with a therapist on the emotional aftermath the abuse and affair have had on me. She sees the difference in having this man away from me and I'm hoping that one day I will not feel this pull.

The sad thing is that if he had just stopped all the lying. Stopped shifting the blame onto me, we would still be together. 

I read this great quote: "the person who cares the least about a relationship is in control of it" That is so true. He didn't want the marriage or the family. He cared less than I ever did and he called the shots. So, now I care less. At least I try to, some days I fail. Today was hard as it was the other woman's birthday, just two weeks before mine. She'd get the dinner, flowers etc. I would get nothing. Year after year. I thought it made me a good wife that I didn't complain or expect it. It made me a doormat and unchallenging and he had no respect for it.


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## valium (Sep 22, 2008)

I was once a doormat as well and took all that was thrown at me. It has taken me a long time but I am no longer that person and my husband sometimes does not like it but if he wants to stay with me needs to put up with it but sometimes i feel he is now too clingy. This has been this way now for around a couple of months. we are tying our best to work through things and he is trying to change which I understand is hard for him as well. 

You both need to be strong for yourselves.

Can you not get a friend of yours to watch them coming out of the office etc, maybe someone he will not recognise and see what they are up to. They can be very sneaky. With regard to the sex my husband went the other way and wanted it all the time. 

He is trying just now and wants to "make love" every day which can be a pain. I am glad when it gets to my monthlies to get a break. I have not had a proper present etc for a long time but have a big birthday this year and have started showing him what I want. 

You need to do things for yourself and try and be a bit independant and he may wonder what is going on.


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

Hideandseek - I appreciate ALL of that input. But I'm not a computer savy person, not in that way anyway. I am considering the therapy though. 

My birthday is on Saturday as well as my dd Confirmation Day. I haven't mentioned my birthday at all, I want to see what happens. I'm sure he'll remember, I'm just curious about the effort that will go into it. I have a feeling he's going to by me a TV I have my eye on for my kitchen. He's usually very predictable. We'll see Saturday. 

I'm just so tired of this. It's consuming every minute of my day.


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

I really don't have anyone to keep an eye out for me. He works an hour away and everyone I know is closer to me and also have jobs and young kids. I wouldn't even ask just not to put anyone out. I thought of that already, but it just wouldn't work.

As far as sex, we're back to the old schedule. Once or twice a week depending. At the beginning of the year we went 4 months and may be once a month after. I really hope Dobo is right. I hope whatever is was is over. And if that's the case I don't even want to know. I just want to know that things are back to normal now and that's where they're gonna stay.


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

Just wanted to post a quick update. I just called my doctor's office and got a couple of numbers for counselors. 

My husband was getting ready to jump in the shower last night and I noticed that his chest hair looked thinner. So I said "what happened to your chest hair it looks thinner". He looked in the mirror and said, "oh does it, oh yeah it does". So I said "what did you do? Trim it? He said yeah a little". He said "well don't you trim?", I said "yeah, but I've been doing it for years, it's not a sudden thing". And I noticed last week he was outside without a shirt and noticed that he trimmed his arm pit hair (my husband is extremely hairy). It never seemed to bother him before (with the exception of the very top of his chest, he hated it when the hair would stick out by the collar of his shirt). Other than that, this is sudden as well. So of course I got quiet and when he got into the shower he said "what's the matter"? I said "nothing". He said "you seem mad now that I trimmed". I said "no, I'm just reading". Then he said "oh, go into my computer case and grab that paperwork on the swine flu they handed out today at work". He said "I'm not sure exactly where it is, just sort through the papers and you'll find it in there". 

I don't necessarily want to discuss this with him because I don't want to fight. I feel so stuck.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

At this point I think you should just be honest with him instead of getting quiet and stuffing your feelings.

You could write down all of the things that have made you suspicious and ask him how it all adds up. And then tell him you need his honesty. You can't live like this. He has to risk telling you the truth or the basis for your marriage will be damaged, possibly forever. Whatever he did, you deserve the courtesy, the respect, to know. And now is the time when he has to come clean. Further lying and covering up is not acceptable.


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

I know and you're right! I already have the list. I started keeping a diary in my computer last week. I have it password protected so no one can open it. Not that he would. He's hardly ever on my computer. It's just that he's been in such a good mood and I'm tired of arguing. We would never argue! Maybe once or twice a year we would have a blow out and next day would be like nothing happened. 

I'm going to tell him tonight about the counselor. But I know it will end up in an argument.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

If he wants to end the argument, prove his innocence, ask him to open up all of his accounts to you right then and there to prove that there is nothing in his emails or text messages -- be sure to look in what he's sent, too. Further, ask him to call the friend and have him tell you about the room/credit card thing while you are listening on speaker.

He can clear this up once and for all by making everything that has not been transparent, transparent. It may hurt that you don't trust him but if the shoe were on the other foot, he wouldn't trust you, either. The shoe is where it is. And that's just a sad fact of life at the moment.

Good luck. Wish I could be there to help keep you steady.


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

I do too. You guys have been great! I'm scared as hell.


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

I was thinking about writing all of my thought on paper and giving it to him and sit there while he reads it. The only reason why I want to do this is because I can be sure not to leave anything out. I have this problem where I'm not a quick thinker and always think about something I should have said when it's too late. Plus I can read the expression on his face as he read it. What do you think?


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Oh, I agree about paper. I don't know if you should sit there while he reads it though. I can see wanting to see his expression. 

Are you going to ask him to open his accounts to you? If so, what if he asks for time to process what he's read and he wants to use that time to delete anything incriminating? How would you handle that?


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

I would stay put. I wouldn't give him time to do it. I would ask to see his e-mails. And then if there's nothing, that's it. I will go to the therapist and take care of me and that would be it. There will be nothing else to do. 

Why don't you think I should be there while he reads it.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

I don't know, really. Just the feeling that it would be intrusive when he's reading something so powerful and emotional. But I guess it is less confrontational than a lot of other ways to deal with this problem.


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

He lost that right to privacy.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

You're right.


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

So that's what I'm gonna do. I'm actually typing it up now and tweak it later, and either possibly tonight or tomorrow, we'll see. Maybe I'll even wait until Monday. He's off the weekend. Saturday is my birthday and my dd Confirmation and we're having a party for her. If this doesn't go well, I don't want to ruin the weekend.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

I think that's wise. Also, put it off until YOU are feeling strong enough to deal with it. 

I hope you have a fine weekend!


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

Thanks. It will be nice. The weather is supposed to be good, so we'll hopefully have it the back yard. I just have to clear my head by then. Which will be good too. I can keep going back to the letter and making sure that all I want to say is there. You've been a really good friend, even though I don't even know you. I thank you so much for being there when I needed someone the most. I have my bf, but she's already made up her mind about the situation. So when I tell her that something is going good, she gets quiet and says "well, we'll see".


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

I'm glad I could offer some support. I really want this to work out for both of you. I hope that no matter what you find, you both will be able to work through it, and come out stronger. 

It is weird because on one hand I hope it is nothing but a bunch of unrelated things that add up to the wrong number, and on the other I hope he'll come clean and admit that he was *thinking* about cheating but didn't. I so want it not to have gone too far. For both of you.

So it is only Tuesday, huh? Do you have a lot of work yet to do for the weekend? 

Speaking of work... I've been so bad lately. :-( We're being acquired and I think I've temporarily checked out. But I had better check back in ASAP!


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

Oh! You're at work??

He called me while I was finishing up the letter. I answered the phone and says "Hey Baby!" Very up beat, sweet. Dobo, part of me just wants to let this go. Do you really think that if he was hiding something he could be so nice towards me? The usual behavior is withdrawing like he did earlier in the year. I'm not sure.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Sigh...

I don't know... 

I still suspect that whatever it is is over. And that's good.

But look, even if everything is over, you've got these signs screaming to be explained. Now maybe over time there will be fewer of them and things will settle down. But maybe you'll experience a bit of PTSD because of what you've already experienced.

At the *very* least, I think you should go into therapy on your own at first. I always say that and I'm a broken record about it but I think it helps to figure things out about what you really want before inviting someone else in. And then I'd suggest asking your husband to join you with this person. Now, he may feel uncomfortable because you've had this person with you all this time and he has no idea what he's walking into. If that's the case, ask your T for a referal and start fresh with someone as a couple. Your T can brief your new person so you aren't starting from scratch once you give the go-ahead. But your husband needs to feel comfortable, too.

I think the problem with letting this go is that the foundation has been cracked and trust undermined. If you don't address it, will it fester? Or will you be able to truly not let it color the future? I don't know that answer and this is something you need to really think about. Nothing would drive a guy crazier than you saying 2 years down the line that you never got over this and then dragging him into therapy. For him it will be a distant memory. And for you it could be as real as the day you first felt something was wrong. I just don't know.

How have you been in the past with letting things go? I know this is a lot different than most things you have probably encountered in the past, but maybe you have some self-knowledge that can guide you through this...


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## peanut (Aug 4, 2009)

That is funny about being at work because I am at work too! LOL
I am glad you are sorting through some things in your head and have some plans. The only thing with writing down your thoughts and giving them to him is that he might get defensive. I did the letter thing and my husband didn't think my "key" points and what "I" thought were really anything. He thought I was overthinking and seeing more into the ordeal than what was there. It helped me though by writing my thoughts down. I also kept a journal of my thoughts. Mostly venting on paper. 
I hope it all goes well for you. It is harder for women, I think, because they are more emotional and need to talk about it where men are more quiet and think things are going well. We'll have an argument and the next day I am still steaming and hubby has forgotten all about it. Men and women are very different in that aspect.
Let me know how it goes...


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

When my husband and I have heated arguments, I don't carry them the next day. I do however carry little hurts. I'm totally ass-backward!


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

No Dobo, your not. Because I do the same thing. My husband is the one who wakes up the next day like nothing happened, I'm usually the one who keeps thinking about things. So, I do have a hard time letting go. I guess that's why I'm in the predicament I'm in. 

Peanut - My husband would get defensive regardless. He thinks a dead issue. I told him the other day that still have this stuff on my mind and jokingly called me an idiot and rolled over. Again, that's his personality.

Dobo - You said a few times that whatever it is you think it's over and I feel so much better when I read those words. I pray to God it is. Again, if it was every anything to begin with. And I am going to therapist on my own. If he offers to come, which he might, I'll take him up on it. My thing is too, if there's something that I can do better or work on, I need to know. It's a two way street and no one is perfect.

I'm sorry to say this, but I don't work. That's why I'm here in the first place. I alway delete my browsing history in case hubs gets on the computer. Which is rare, but you never know.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Delete cookies, too.

It is OK that you don't work. I took time off with the kids for a while. The mom-thing is effort. I was happy to return, when I finally returned to work.

If you don't let go well, you're going to have to get this out into the open. I can't think of any other way. For me, holding things in makes them worse because then I POP.

Glad to hear about therapy on your own. I hope you find someone who is really good and intelligent. And I hope you're not spending too much time trying to figure out what you did to drive him in this direction. It is usually a lot more about them than you. Someone pays them attention and it is new and it feels good. Next thing you know you're in over your head. 

My husband would hold me if I told him something like that and he wouldn't roll over. Then again, he always tells me he's not ignoring me when he rolls over so he's just that kind of guy.


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

That's sweet. 

I hope I find someone good too. And no I'm not spending too much time thinking about what I did or didn't do. But I think about it some.

We'll just have to wait and see how things go now. 

How many kids do you have? What ages?

I have 13 yr old dd and an 8 yr old son.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

I have two girls, 14 and 8 and he has two boys, 15 and 13, but the boys are only with us part-time, sadly.

It is a challenge having a teen and an 8 YO, isn't it?


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

No not really. My dd is more of a challenge than my son is. My son keeps me on my toes, be he is the funniest kid you'll ever meet! He has his father's sense of humor, normally my husband has me laughing non stop.

My dd has an attitude the size of my house. Over what I still haven't figured out. I guess that's another forum! LOL!

They're good kids though, I'm very lucky. Ages and stages, that's all it is.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

I think the 13 YO is going through "the change". ;-) My 14 YO was like that until quite recently when we took some steps to crack her upside the head (sent her to military camp). Yup. She loved it! (Who knew?!) Came back stronger and more self-confident and has turned her 'tude around.

My 8 YO is funny, too. I think that's the role of the 2nd child. (Or youngest)

For me the challenge is that they are at two different stages to keeping everyone happy is sometimes rough. It is harder when all the kids are together since the little one is odd chick out. That said, they get along amazingly well and have a lot of fun together 98% of the time. 

Is your 8 YO in 3rd?


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

Yes, he's in 3rd. YOU SENT HER TO MILITARY CAMP?? Holy crap batman! I'm glad it all worked out though. That must have been a tough decision to make. What doesn't kill us makes us stronger.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Yeah. She still dresses funny <g> but she learned a lot about herself and getting away from me probably didn't hurt her, either. 

The decision really wasn't too difficult to make. She was accepting of the idea. It was expensive but it turned out to be a good decision. She has stayed in touch with a lot of the kids from camp and has made a fresh start in 10th grade. Night and Day!


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## hideandseek (Sep 21, 2009)

Hi there:

Just catching up after getting in from work, and I saw this:

_Do you really think that if he was hiding something he could be so nice towards me? The usual behavior is withdrawing like he did earlier in the year. I'm not sure._

YES! Cheaters compartmentalize very well. My husband did it for 7 years and continued to do it when we were trying to reconcile. They become better and better at it. I went through everything you are going through back in 2002 and eventually his ability to compartmentalize led me into believing that everything was alright. I lost 6 more years of my life.

At the very least, the two of you have a communication problem and could benefit from some therapy.


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## pburress (Sep 21, 2009)

I think I may be getting into this discussion late, but this stuck me from your original post...

"Even my son has said a couple times, “I bet daddy has a girlfriend and he’s cheating on you.” That’s nice coming from my 8 year old son."

Isn't that the ultimate red flag? If your 8 year old senses something that you are already suspicious, it is probably true. But more than anything else, I would think that you should put him a position to fess up immediately, or convince you and your son that he is telling the truth.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

I'm going to be a good kid today (or I'm going to *try*) and get some serious work done today so I may be scarce. And if I'm not, beat me up! However, I want you to know I'm thinking about you and your husband and I don't do this much, but I'm praying for you (and for Corpus and her husband). I don't know if it helps but it doesn't hurt.

For folks that are coming in late, I don't want you to not voice your opinions but I'd like to ask that you think about where the couple is now, and answer based on the more recent information. We need to help them as much as possible and not throw fuel on the fire. Things appear to be getting better.

I have a gut feeling about this man and I will tell you now that I'm a sucker at times, but I really believe whatever happened is over. I don't think he's suckering her. He went away and now he's back. 

I don't think I know his age, but let's say he is pushing forty or is in his forties... A *lot* of people, not just men, go through a period where they want to know if they've still got it and they fall easily into accepting admiration of someone else. And even if they don't do anything physical, they do become aware that they're not looking their best and they do make changes in that area. They realize they *want* to be found attractive to the opposite sex. At this time, they may also reevaluate where they are in their relationship and not know what they want. Everything says he cheated, but there is still a chance that he did all the prep work but didn't go there. We just don't know.

What I hope is that he tells her about his uncertainty and his doubts. They were obviously there. And they happen to a lot of people. It doesn't reflect on her. They are about him.

Anyway, let's hold this couple up and give them our positive energy.


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

Dobo! I'm speechless (which if you really knew me, is RARE!) I appreciate you guys like you have no idea. 

Just one thing I want to tell you that happened...Last night I was in the kitchen making mine and my husbands dinner (kids ate before soccer game) and he came into the kitchen and said "hey babe, you need help, and I said "no, thanks" seeing that I was still quiet he said "hun, what's the matter?" I said "nothing" and couldn't help it, but started crying, so he pulled me into the wash room because the kids were on the couch and he said "what's wrong?" and he put his arms around me and I said "I feel like we're in trouble" and held me and rubbed my back and as he went to say something, my son was coming in so he left to divert my son so he didn't see me crying. And that was it, he was still goofing all night, he left well enough alone and he watch Hell's Kitchen.

Then my husband called me this morning (twice actually)and the second time it was idle chit chat, and I heard that he just lit a cigarette. And I was kind of quiet. So he said "well, I'll let you go, I'll give you a call later." So I said "you just lit a cig, why are you in such a rush?" He said "well, you don't sound like you really want to talk, so. I came home last night and was looking forward to hanging out with you and I know you've been quiet, but I gotta say, it really sucks not talking to you." So I told him "I still have all of this stuff in my head I can't get rid of and I don't know what else to do." He said "Hun, your feeling like this for nothing, I told you there is nothing going on." Then I thought about you Dobo and I said "was there something going on and now it's over?" He said "No, there was nothing ever going on." I told him that I wished I never looked at that e-mail, what started out as a joke, turned out the joke was on me and he said "no it wasn't, it wasn't anything. I completely understood why you go so upset, I would've too, but it was nothing." So, he swears nothing went on. So, I asked him about the beginning of the year and that he was so distant. And he said "you know what was going on, I was having chest pains, my blood pressure was up and I had to go for all of those tests and you know that work was the cause. Work was ridiculous at the beginning of the year, you know that." He said "this is why I don't understand you. You act like I leave work at 6:00 and I don't get home until 9:00, I don't go anywhere, when I'm not at work, I'm home. I don't sneak out." I said "that's why this confuses me, I know all of that, but I don't know if you're taking long lunches and doing your own thing." He said, "hun, there are days I don't even take lunch because it's busy and then there are days that I eat at my desk while dealing with associates on the other side of my desk." He swears everything is good. So, I've made a decision and I'm sure everyone will think I'm nuts. But I've decided to just let all of this go. I know my husband and the person he is at this very moment is the man I married, the person he is at this moment is the reason why I married him. I'm just going to chalk this up to a series of unforunate events. I still have the counselors number if I need it. But right now, I'm plugging in to him the way I expected him to and he did. Or else if I don't, you won't be seeing any more posts from me, because I jumped off a bridge. And he didn't get upset with me, angry, just seemed very understanding of why I'm feeling what I'm feeling and very sincere. 

Dobo, your last post...THANK YOU!


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

By the way, you're close, he just turned 37.


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## foolz1 (Sep 5, 2009)

Pinky, I was just checking in to see how things were going. I am sure hoping everything is going to be alright, as I can see this is taking a toll on your health. I hope you can get your stress level down. I completely understand, as I obsess about things too much, also.

I am hoping for the very best for you.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Pinky, I think you're wonderful and I'm 100% behind any decision you make. This is your life and your marriage.


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## Pinky (Sep 17, 2009)

You guys TRULY ARE THE BEST! I think you guys are wonderful too! I think right now the best thing is to just bury it and move on. If something happens in the future, I'll deal with it then. 

I gotta say Dobo, you completely turned my mood around today. I feel so much better than I have these past couple of days. Thank you.

I'll keep you posted. The support here is amazing! 

xxx ooo


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