# Am I wrong/bad/deluded/screwed up to want reward and or event sex?



## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

Every red blooded all American man wants a hot wife that is glad to see him, desires him and wants to have frequent intimate connections. I told my wife this and she of course rolls her eyes at me like I am some sort of cave man but I sincerely believe it's true

I worked way too unnecessarily hard for too many years in a business making the mistake of neglecting my wife's emotional needs. My wife was crushed because I took her for granted for many years. (about 8)

When she told me I was losing her unless I changed, I quit it cold turkey. No nights, no weekends, more affection, more attention without being smothery. 

We quickly started putting warm friendship back into our relationship and the intimacy started coming back around and keeps improving. I am very happy about that. She was skeptical at first and it took her some getting used to it because it was so not like me in the past. Eventually she came around and was not suspicious of it not lasting.

When something good happens to her, I am very happy for her and my reactions and comments I would think make that very clear to her. I am her biggest fan. When something good happens to me, she might as well yawn in my face so I don't bother telling her. 

She had a dream of wanting this house that I was able to purchase, I have set records at work three years in a row, we have no worries financially. I figured she would be super excited about the house and what I had accomplished for us and she would want to romp with me to celebrate. It didn't happen. I was very surprised. 

It has been two years since she told me she was losing hope and I stopped messing up working too much and made her the priority and asked frequently how she is doing and what she is wanting. She has done the same somewhat for me. It seems we are both wanting to make things work. 

Thing is, she is still mopey and resentful of the past even two years later with all the progress. there are many triggers that I learn about and start avoiding to make things better for her spirit. I am getting tired of it that she cant move forward with our rebuild more rapidly.

I also tell her sex with her inspires me to be even more of what she wants and that it makes it essentially effortless when we are connecting intimately. 

When something awesome happens for her or for me or its a celebration day or we are in a hotel or something fun, I want to have connection sex or hanky panky flirty sex or both. Is that too transactional sex wise to "expect" a celebration romp?

She never thinks that way. She isn't frigid. She is just not focused on our hanky panky flirty celebration fun even though she asked me to make her the number one priority and I did. 

It seems she wants to be my only priority and I cant do that. There are things to do that need to be taken care of. She can not seem to accept that she is not the ONLY thing in my life that is important to me, us and my daughter's well being and happiness. 

When something good happens to either of us or when something bad happens and at least I want comfort of her love and pleasure to lift the clouds off me is it too much like transactional sex for it to be workable and satisfying and not weird or not?

If it is a transactional sex expectation, is that always bad? 

Why Why not?

Thanks in advance for your insights, answers, effort and knowledge but I could use some help trying to figure out how to inspire my wife to let go of past hurts and move on to the marriage I hope we both want.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Couples counseling. She needs to see your point of view also, and the love and affection should be reciprocal. You both need to know what the parameters of the relationships are, what each of your boundaries are.

She has to be practical as well, and if you tried the communication route, as in telling her your feelings without holding back, but try to in an nonaccusatory way. People will tend to listen if they do not feel attacked. Some things to help communicate is holding her hands and looking into her eyes are some helpful tools to use. And if that fails, couples counseling as suggested.

Plus, she may be hiding her emotions from you as well. I think she has insecurities that she has not opened to you about.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

The bit that you tell about the new house you bought.

That's a covert contract on your part. You figured that buying the house would get you sex to celebrate. Covert contracts usually backfire.

Wanting sex in exchanging for your actions is not going to work out very well. It's like purchasing sex. I'll bet that's how your wife sees it when you bring up the topic.

There is nothing wrong with your point of view that sex is a great way to celebrate.

There is nothing wrong with your wife's point of view either.

There is something about convert contracts that usually leads to disappointment.

You two need to be in counseling so that you gain an understanding of each other.

I also suggest that you both read and do the work in the books "His Needs, Her Needs" and "Love Busters".


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## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

Lila said:


> You mentioned that your wife does not see sex as a celebratory activity. So when do she get inspired to want to have sex with you? Does she view sex as an emotionally bonding experience where intimacy is the ultimate goal?


It seems to be out of the blue. It's about once mostly and on occasion twice in an atypical week. I have been unable to put a finger on what gets the motor purring. It's frustrating. your asking me resulted in me asking her by text message. just now because I told her I had no idea. LOL

I did notice years ago when she went tanning that she came back and always wanted to be intimate with me. I figured it was the endorphin from UV ray thing. 

On rare occasion but consistently every 6 months or so she attacks me in the morning right after her shower. 

She is also more of a nooner fan than an evening gal because she is always tired at night. Up at four and beat by 10. Dates that go past 8 pm result in her wanting to go to bed instead of romp it up and down.

I don't think she experiences emotional bonding. TO her it seems more of a "getting off" physically. She does not seem inspired after like I am. It's weird to me honestly.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Why one earth is she up at 4am?


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## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Why one earth is she up at 4am?


I get up at 4am and leave for work at 5.

Just say'in....


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## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

Mr.Fisty said:


> she may be hiding her emotions from you as well. I think she has insecurities that she has not opened to you about.


What do you suggest about that one.



EleGirl said:


> That's a covert contract on your part. Wanting sex in exchanging for your actions is not going to work out very well. It's like purchasing sex. I'll bet that's how your wife sees it when you bring up the topic.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with your point of view that sex is a great way to celebrate.
> 
> ...


Red that first book. Seems pretty straight-forward to me if not obvious to me. In other works it makes sense to me with no argument. 

I do not know what a covert contract is exactly but it just seems normal if we won the lottery or something that we would romp in celebration. If I dog died we would romp for comfort. 

With her there is a total disconnect with events, celebrations, special days. Isn't that odd? Our anniversary, her birthday, my birthday, Valentines, NOTHIN' WTH?

That can't be normal. Then out of the blue, she wants some. LOL. Odd as a round pocket square no?

Counseling is pricy and has a bad track record doesn't it? We can't self help thru this? We are both smart and studious?

Not trying to be difficult with suggestion. Just practical. Appreciate the suggestions either way.


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## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> Why one earth is she up at 4am?


Work by 7, daughter and I also up at 430 to 5 for same. Breakfast. packing lunch, morning routine, I pull voice mails and check email for business, plan day, etc. 



Lila said:


> Could you give us bit of your background? Ages? How long married? Are there kids? Is your wife on hormone (BCP)? Was she always like this, before and after marriage?


late forties one trouble free child doing well. No medical issues we know of, both in decent shape, attractive enough to have had a nice life with opposite gender. Nothing glaring. Just differentness. I am slightly more wild but a family man thru and thru. She is similar that way but like to spend a bit more time on the go. 

Maybe she doesn't like me. When IU am focused on her and extra flirty she is very responsive but it's not my nature to be always chatty. She is a bit extroverted and I am a bit introverted but I sell and manage all day and then am quieter at home. 

I think she would rather I stayed extro for her. Only a hunch/guess though.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

You have to do youyr homework with marriage counselors. Each one has their strengths and weaknesses and it pays to try out more than just one or two.
Oftentimes a counselor can reccomend a suitable peer after a session with both of you.

Counsel has a bad rep because of the complications it brings. When you do marriage counseling, you are actually treating three entities. You, her and "us".

If you loose sight of that, then your patients go away unsatisfied or even frustrated or mad.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

I don't understand the celebratory sex. I would venture a guess your W does not either. For me, Valentines day, anniversary, etc would be celebratory sex. Purchasing a home my W wanted, not so much.


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## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

Yeswecan said:


> I don't understand the celebratory sex. I would venture a guess your W does not either. For me, Valentines day, anniversary, etc would be celebratory sex. Purchasing a home my W wanted, not so much.


What do you mean you don't understand it? 

Why I would be inspired to have it or Why she doesn't?

Dream house doesn't do it for you? 

Does anniversary or birthdays or holidays inspire you to want celebration sex or no? 

I do not understand what you mean by not understanding. Please clarify so we can discuss.


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## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

Lila said:


> Thanks for responding with some background. Helps to know where you're at in life.
> 
> I reread your thread and it really sounds like you have two separate issues The first one is your wife's ongoing resentment over the years of neglect. The second one is your question about transactional/reward/celebratory sex. I'll start with the second one because it's the easier one of the two to tackle.
> 
> ...


This makes sense to me on an intellectual level but I do struggle with the feeling part with my triggers being foreign to her and vice versa. I will have to google the chit of it to get deeply into why she doesn't feel playful on good events and comforting on sorrow. It is so not me. :scratchhead:

I am eternally grateful for the starting place for my comprehension endeavor. Another friggen mystery to solve that is my wife. Eeek!


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Lila said:


> My best guess is that your wife views sex as an emotionally bonding activity. It's strictly a show of intimacy and it's deeply rooted to her ability to show you affection. She does not see it as a recreational activity or an activity to celebrate or mourn an event. She has to be emotionally invested in you to have sex. Winning the lottery, Valentines day, or dealing with a dead dog are not hitting the right triggers to turn her on to sex. There is nothing wrong with her way of thinking, it's just different from yours.


Actually it sounds like she DOESNT see sex as an emotionally bonding activity. At least, not any more, not with you. Maybe she used to, before she had all this built up resentment. Seems that now it is strictly for physical release for her. In reading your posts, it doesnt seem like she is really in love any more, more like she feels a more friendlike or family-like bond with you now. The "celebratory" kind of sex you are referring to happens between people who are closely bonded as an automatic response to events, as they trigger an even closer feeling to each other. Expecting it to happen goes against what it is.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

My wife is very similar to yours. Seems more in the mood when she is on a diet, has gotten her hair done, yes tanning too. I think she feels more attactive in these situations. I'm like you, I think, where none of those things matter to me (obviously those are good things- but I'm not picky as to the when and where's of sex)

I also would like -- though I don't expect it -- sex after an accomplishment. I travel a lot for work. It would be nice to get my bones jumped when I get home after being gone 3-4 days. Rarely happens. I recently got a new job where I increased my salary substantially- took her to dinner, flowers. But she was "too tired" that night. Was disappointing. Like your wife, she doesn't equate sex as a reward kind of thing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Lila said:


> As far as resentment goes, 8 years of neglect is tough to get over quickly. There is no easy solution except have patience and keep doing what needs to be done to prove to her that you are a wonderful partner for her and that she can trust you. This isn't going to resolve itself overnight.


The sad truth is that with some women this is not going to resolve itself ever. I do see the signs of resentment in your description of her responses.

I disagree that she sees sex as bonding. She is interested in you when her interest has been started elsewhere. Some times more build up can work in this case. 
MN


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

Reading through your post I see you are close to my age. 
Do you compliment your wife? Tell her she's pretty? Do you ever thank her for the things she does on a daily basis? 
Don't expect her to want sex because of things you by or celebrate. Do things that will make her WANT to have sex with you. I've done things like pack her a lunch when I make mine. Every now and then I'll slip a little note in with it just to let her know I love her and think about her. More often than not, it's the little thoughtful things that will that will get her fired up. She wants to know you are thinking of her. Thing that you may think are silly, may just be the things she wants. Here's an example. I walk my dog a mile and a half every evening after dinner. I always ask my wife if she's coming with me. One day she said she didn't think she wanted to go because she felt we had nothing to really chat about. I said it doesn't matter, I just enjoy your company. She changed her mind and came along. Wouldn't you know it. We actually had a great conversation and it felt great when she let go of my hand part way through and hooked onto my arm instead. Later that night she was initiating quite intensely. 
You have to stimulate her mind to get her to want to "jump your bones". It's usually the littlest loving gesture that gets the best results. Just do it because you love her, not because you expect sex. I've gone to where my wife parks her truck when she's at work just to change a lightbulb for her. I also left a flirty note taped to her steering wheel. Did I expect sex? No. Did I get sex? No. It didn't matter to me. 
My wife gets up at 5:00am for work. Sometimes I'll initiate at 10:45 at night, if I get a green light she might not get to sleep until 2:00am. She will sacrifice her night of sleep because she wants to have sex, not because she feels she owes it to me.
I'm sure if I'm wrong about these things, the ladies on here will no doubt set me straight.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

thenub said:


> Reading through your post I see you are close to my age.
> Do you compliment your wife? Tell her she's pretty? Do you ever thank her for the things she does on a daily basis?
> Don't expect her to want sex because of things you by or celebrate. Do things that will make her WANT to have sex with you. I've done things like pack her a lunch when I make mine. Every now and then I'll slip a little note in with it just to let her know I love her and think about her. More often than not, it's the little thoughtful things that will that will get her fired up. She wants to know you are thinking of her. Thing that you may think are silly, may just be the things she wants. Here's an example. I walk my dog a mile and a half every evening after dinner. I always ask my wife if she's coming with me. One day she said she didn't think she wanted to go because she felt we had nothing to really chat about. I said it doesn't matter, I just enjoy your company. She changed her mind and came along. Wouldn't you know it. We actually had a great conversation and it felt great when she let go of my hand part way through and hooked onto my arm instead. Later that night she was initiating quite intensely.
> You have to stimulate her mind to get her to want to "jump your bones". It's usually the littlest loving gesture that gets the best results. Just do it because you love her, not because you expect sex. I've gone to where my wife parks her truck when she's at work just to change a lightbulb for her. I also left a flirty note taped to her steering wheel. Did I expect sex? No. Did I get sex? No. It didn't matter to me.
> ...


:smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Here's how I read your post.

You take blame for all problems that occurred in your marriage. Since you created all the problems you now have to meet her needs in their entirety while she does not have to bother meeting your needs.

Men are fixers. The define the problem and then go about fixing what they can control. You cleaned up your side of the street. Now it's time to lead your wife into cleaning up her side of the street.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

thread the needle said:


> She is also more of a nooner fan than an evening gal because she is always tired at night. Up at four and beat by 10. Dates that go past 8 pm result in her wanting to go to bed instead of romp it up and down.


If she's up at 4 I'm not surprised that she's beat by 10. Most people would be. That's only 6 hours in bed per night. Some people can go without enough sleep but many can't.

That's probably why she's a nooner fan.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I feel that the thread has totally ignored the main Question. Thread the needle may not agree with me. 

Is there any interest in talking about, Reward sex, Transactional sex, or celebration sex?
MN


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

It seems rather common for the person who's needs aren't being met to be the person who needs to do the changing. In this case it sounds like you've done a lot of changing but still are on the hook to change some more. Lucy pulling the football starts to creep into my head. Something tells me that when/if you bring these issues up for discussion that you're the bad guy and need to keep chasing the goal. Time for a MC so she can here it from someone else. My sense is that she'll resist. 

As for the Dream Home Romp.... I don't understand not understanding that. Its a big life event (like many) that you want to enjoy that basic connection stuff as part of a celebration. Her not being able to connect sounds like something you BOTH need to work on.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

I don't see sex as transactional. It may SEEM that way in certain circumstances.

Personally I don't think "ooh sex" or get that physical urge just because a house is purchased, I am on vacation or as a salve in times of sorry. Especially in sorrow the last thing on my mind is sex.

I want sex when I feel close. Buying a dream house doesn't necessary make me feel close. It is just a check box on the list of life accomplishments. Now an anniversary or Valentines' day might make me feel obligated to go through the motions so that would be celebration sex. But the best sex is sex that just happens because two people happen to feel very close. Sometimes a vacation where there are no outside distractions and more quality time can lead to that feeling, but it's not the action of being on vacation or my SO spending money on paying for a vacation.

For instance, my ex was a lot like that - he expected sex always, but especially on vacation - thought vacation was a waste if it didn't happen. (Covert contract, anyone?) Same with a house purchase - wanted to do it in every room whereas I'm thinking about packing, moving, where the furniture will go and all of the hard work, which is NOT particularly romantic or conducive to sex. 

However, if I recognized there was an attempt to please me WITHOUT and ulterior motive (covert contract) I might be more inclined to push aside the distractions and intentionally try to get in the mood. 

The OP seems to think if he does this, she'll respond with that. People don't work that way. A dog will shake when offered a treat. That doesn't mean the dog WANTS to shake. Just that he'll do it without prodding for the right reward. It's my understanding the OP wants her to WANT to do it. That isn't going to come from an award. That will have to come out of a feeling of closeness.


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## pragmaster (May 7, 2014)

Dude you need to go buy this book ASAP. It's called the Married Man's Sex Life Primer.

Buy it, read it, study it, learn it, do it 100% and I guarantee your problems will be solved. 

You need to learn how to make her tea kettle warm. She is probably not as attracted to you as before and probably bored. You need to spark her attraction by putting your needs first in a firm, dominant way.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

EnjoliWoman said:


> I don't see sex as transactional. It may SEEM that way in certain circumstances.
> 
> Personally I don't think "ooh sex" or get that physical urge just because a house is purchased, I am on vacation or as a salve in times of sorry. Especially in sorrow the last thing on my mind is sex.
> 
> ...


is it fair to say.....based on your post...if you slim it down what it really means...is sex "simply boils down to a womans mood"

that's what i got out of what you wrote.....and what a selfish way to think.

as a male in a relationship... I think i will start using that. "you know, I am not in the mood for doing chores, even though you would like to see the lawn mowed"......or "I am not going to do thoughtful things for you.....not in the mood...you should understand that, right"?


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

x598 said:


> is it fair to say.....based on your post...if you slim it down what it really means...is sex "simply boils down to a womans mood"
> 
> that's what i got out of what you wrote.....and what a selfish way to think.
> 
> as a male in a relationship... I think i will start using that. "you know, I am not in the mood for doing chores, even though you would like to see the lawn mowed"......or "I am not going to do thoughtful things for you.....not in the mood...you should understand that, right"?


I think that sex is important to a healthy marriage, but it is not a payment or reward, nor it is it a celebratory act that is expected because it's some arbitrary day. It's not about the mood, it's about the emotion. Does she FEEL close and connected? Then she will want to physically bond to him as well.

It is a partnership where both parties should try to meet each other's needs. His needs are sex; he THINKS her needs are material. They obviously are not. If her love language was gifts, then maybe a house would do it for her. But it's not the purchase of the house/gift - it's the LOVE & THOUGHTFULNESS behind the giving which in turn makes a person with that love language feel special and connected to the SO; not the gift itsef; the ACTION OF GIVING instills feelings of caring and then the other reacts by an action of giving in his love language which is touch. He hasn't figured out her love language. If it is quality time then the years of ignoring her to spend time at work didn't make her feel loved.

Equating sex to a household chore reduces the act and the woman to a vagina. Maybe that's all you or OP wants.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

EnjoliWoman said:


> I think that sex is important to a healthy marriage, but it is not a payment or reward, nor it is it a celebratory act that is expected because it's some arbitrary day. It's not about the mood, it's about the emotion. Does she FEEL close and connected? Then she will want to physically bond to him as well.
> 
> It is a partnership where both parties should try to meet each other's needs. His needs are sex; he THINKS her needs are material. They obviously are not. If her love language was gifts, then maybe a house would do it for her. But it's not the purchase of the house/gift - it's the LOVE & THOUGHTFULNESS behind the giving which in turn makes a person with that love language feel special and connected to the SO; not the gift itsef; the ACTION OF GIVING instills feelings of caring and then the other reacts by an action of giving in his love language which is touch. He hasn't figured out her love language. If it is quality time then the years of ignoring her to spend time at work didn't make her feel loved.
> 
> Equating sex to a household chore reduces the act and the woman to a vagina. Maybe that's all you or OP wants.


thats EXACTLY right...its an act of GIVING.

maybe you missed the sarcasm of what i was trying to say.

we as men are expected to give. and that SHOULD BE a two way street...unless of course one isn't in the "mood" and then it should be understood. it doesn't work for me that mood and giving are even used in the same sentence.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Thank you Enjoli and also x598,
I brought this up with Mrs Nail and she had some different ideas. I agreed with what x598 posted and expressed a similar sentiment. "why is it that your mood is the only important consideration in whether to have sex?" Is it the assumption that all men are always ready to go at a minutes warning. Mrs Nail agreed that that was somewhat one sided. She also agreed that there was room for some transnational sex in our relationship. 
Enjoli I see what you are saying about celebration sex. My wife is big into holidays. I'm more likely to share sex on a holiday if everything else works and if she is not too tired. In other words morning sex is the way to go. I think the best part of your post was explaining that what triggers a sexual response in one person will not be the thing that triggers the same response in another. 

About Transactions, There has always been transactional sex in my marriage. I know that if I want sex all I have to do is invest 30 -60 minutes in back and shoulder (sometimes legs and feet) massage. She would tell you that there is no transaction, that relaxing and touching puts her in the mood. She is right from her point of view. To say that I am doing it just to be nice with no ulterior motive would frequently (90% +) be false. In other words very little happens without ulterior (lets face it "sexual") motive. Yes I want to please my wife, I want her to be happy and relaxed, because the probability of sex increases with these emotions. 

About new house, Mrs. Nail was surprised that Mrs Needle didn't want to christen the new home. Enjoli, my memory is that that event took place some time after the unpacking.

Gifts, Just my situation for instruction or humor. As I said My Wife is big on holidays. So if it is a gift Holiday then I better have a gift. The mothers day Present arrived in Monday mornings mail. Mrs Nail asked if she could open it now. I said yes if you must but I will have to go out and buy another gift for her to open on Sunday. She is waiting and enjoying looking at the wrapping.
MN


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

X you are missing the point, Sex can be an act of giving. But Enjoli and many other people here both male and female, believe that sex should be Sharing. I like Sharing sex. The trouble I have is I like gifted sex too. I like won sex. I like reward sex. Heck I like punishment sex. 
(there may be a pattern here)
MN


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

EnjoliWoman said:


> Equating sex to a household chore reduces the act and the woman to a vagina. Maybe that's all you or OP wants.


That saying we've all heard "A woman needs to feel loved to have sex and a man needs sex to feel loved" seems to fit really well here. 

I can't speak for the OP, but when I was married I got up every morning and when to work, I supported my family very well, I took care of the house, I paid the bills, I managed the investments, I took care of the cars, I cleaned the kitchen, watched the kids and managed to bring home dinner, flowers, cards and arrange date nights. I did that because I loved my wife and, while none of it was ever acknowledged, I assumed there was some appreciation of it. When it finally sunk in that she really didn't appreciate any of that I felt like I (and my efforts) had been reduced to a source of support an nothing more. I was a moron for continuing all of that for years without feeling loved. Maybe in the OP's case that's what she has reduced him to also.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

I understand OP. I like event sex, celebratory sex, cheer up sex, even angry sex if it happens (it's been forever on that one tho). I liken it more to "celebrating life" sex. 

If we're happy, let's have sex... happy sex!

If one or both of us are sad... let's have sex, and make that emotional connection. 

And ya, there is still room for good ol' fashioned "I want to jump your bones" sex and sweet, slow, making love sex. 

So there is nothing wrong with wanting all that sex. But I don't think I know the answer to OP's problem of how to understand wife, or get her to understand him. I also don't really see it as transactional.... more like let's SHARE sex because this is a good thing (or a sad thing, or a horny thing.... whatever). 

I THINK this is one of those things that you agree to disagree on. You just have different views and no one is wrong. If you have enough sex in the meantime, you may have to let go of the celebratory aspect just because she doesn't even see it. It's not on her radar. 

If you don't have enough sex in the meantime.... THAT is where your focus should be. MAYBE if you work on wooing her, and giving her sex when it matters to her..... I would hope that eventually she would reciprocate....and do it just because it matters to you. 

I hope this makes sense!


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Event sex is fantastic. Usually it is best to not have it at the event though.

So here is a side note: I met my current partner exactly 2 years to the day that I ended my first marriage, when we have sex on our Anniversary we are also having sex on the anniversary of my marriage ending. Lucky me, I get two celebrate to major life events on the same day.


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## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

EnjoliWoman said:


> Personally I don't think "ooh sex" or get that physical urge just because a house is purchased, I am on vacation or as a salve in times of sorry. Especially in sorrow the last thing on my mind is sex.
> 
> I want sex when I feel close.
> 
> ...


*Right and the feeling of closeness for MANY despite your claim about "people" you ignore the large subset of "people" that are not like you and they do feel "close" when a significant event they share together that brings them closer is cause for desire and intimacy. Like you, my wife is not one of those people.*



EnjoliWoman said:


> I think that sex is important to a healthy marriage, but it is not a payment or reward, nor it is it a celebratory act that is expected because it's some arbitrary day. It's not about the mood, it's about the emotion. Does she FEEL close and connected? Then she will want to physically bond to him as well.
> 
> *What you call an "arbitrary day" some of us would call "a meaningful milestone that reminds us how lucky we are to be in love and how close we are and feel to our partner" I find it as odd as you do that you and my wife are your way and I am how I am. *
> 
> ...


Right and I did figure that out and addressed it. 

The reason I focused on your quotes even though I have read all others, is this is a conversation I could have had with my wife and round and round we go.


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## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

Mr. Nail said:


> About new house, Mrs. Nail was surprised that Mrs Needle didn't want to christen the new home





SunnyT said:


> I understand OP. I like event sex, celebratory sex, cheer up sex, even angry sex if it happens (it's been forever on that one tho). I liken it more to "celebrating life" sex!





Holland said:


> Event sex is fantastic


See what I mean. And what are the romantic thoughts inside these heads that cause them to feel close to their lover and then want to have sex? Is it, "damn we have so much to unpack" or "let's get naked and romp?"

Is it anything like the thoughts in my head in my response to Enjoli or no?


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Just because the woman does not feel a need to mark milestones with sexual connection does not mean she should not respect her husbands desire to do that.

Sometimes we give, and sometimes we receive...If his wife is doing alll the taking and none of the giving then the marriage will fail.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

thread the needle said:


> *Right and the feeling of closeness for MANY despite your claim about "people" you ignore the large subset of "people" that are not like you and they do feel "close" when a significant event they share together that brings them closer is cause for desire and intimacy. Like you, my wife is not one of those people.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


WOW very well stated. i couldn't agree with you more.


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## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

I sincerely hope this thread does not die because I believe we have uncovered something here that is of monumental usefulness. 

Here is a story about Joe's crab shack. 

I LOVE cracking crab legs. My wife hates it. My daughter hates it. My daughter's friend also loves it. 

I am sitting there romancing in my mind about being shipwrecked on a deserted island having to catch my own meals, make fire from flint, prepare a bowl from coconut shells and crack open whatever food I can find. Ahhh the romance of my daydreams cracking open my catch of the day. My daughter's friend. Same deal. 

MY wife and daughter bitohing the whole time how it isn't worth it. I grabbed their crab legs, busted them open and handed bag a mound of crab meat which they enjoyed along with the chivalry of my assistance.

Romantic day dream continues as man tending the needs of a damsel in distress cracking open her crab legs to relieve her of sore, tired fingers while addressing her hunger as a man should do under such trying circumstances. 

BitoH bitoH bitoh. 

Did I feel closer to her. Yes. Did she feel closer to me. Nope. 

See the difference?

I like my way better even if some people think I'm nuts. I think they are missing out and that sucks for everyone involved. 

Did I want to ne intimate later? Yes. Did she? No. Is that transactional because I PAID for dinner? No. Is that what the other type thinks? Yup. Are they DEAD WRONG? Yup. 

Does that suck? Yup. Is it cynical and misguided and unfortunate? Yup.

Can you penetrate their skull with romance and happiness? FuoK NO!


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Crab legs yummmmm


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

It's fascinating really. There's a thread going in the SIM section right now where a woman is giving her husband reward sex and getting beaten up for it pretty harshly. Most of the posters, largely men, seem to feel she's prostituting herself and manipulating her husband. 

The disparity in replies between that thread and this one is curious to me. 

:scratchhead:


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

FrenchFry said:


> I do have a romantic side, however, but it is aligned differently and the key for my husband is to figure out how to appeal to it.


wow...really? Do you have any responsibility to your husband to appeal to his romantic side?


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

I get why those not-covert-contracts are more romantic in your mind. It is how H and I live. Every day there are moments of "I just love this life....we got it good" from both or either of us. 

We are regular people, with regular lives.... going to work, playing online, Date Nite, travel when we can, lots of family events with grown kids and grand kids... And all of that, we feel, are reasons to celebrate. 

When the little kids drive us crazy, we just get a good hug and appreciate the alone time we get when they leave. 

When the grown kids have problems, we help them and then come together with support.... which keeps us close.

When everyone is here, and it's all loud and boisterous, we smile and hug....aren't we lucky we think.... this is the life. 


We smile alot, we love what we have, we love how this life is going..... and it brings us close. Its an attitude. Its sharing and caring and being thankful.... and it brings us close. 

And whenever we are close..... well, there's going to be SEX!


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Personally, I dislike transactional sex, because I think it disrespects your partner. If you buy your wife lots of presents or do lots of work for her in the expectation of sex, it's basically like treating her as a prostitute who gets paid in gifts or chores instead of cash.

Sex should be something two people do together because they want to, not because they feel obliged to.

It sounds to me like your wife is one of those women who need to feel arousal first before they feel desire. She's at her horniest after tanning, or after a shower, so I would imagine that when she's naked, that gets her started thinking about her body, and doing pleasurable things with it. She's aroused from that, so then she desires you.

But buying a dream home is not foreplay.

Having a special event to celebrate, even an anniversary, is not foreplay.

You doing the dishes and buying her presents is not foreplay.

Cracking her crab legs is not foreplay.

If you really like the idea of reward or event sex, to get her on board, you have to work some foreplay into it.


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

Rowan said:


> It's fascinating really. There's a thread going in the SIM section right now where a woman is giving her husband reward sex and getting beaten up for it pretty harshly. Most of the posters, largely men, seem to feel she's prostituting herself and manipulating her husband.
> 
> The disparity in replies between that thread and this one is curious to me.
> 
> :scratchhead:


The OP used the terms "reward" and "event" in the title but reading the thread has me feeling that "reward" doesn't apply and "event" does. Achieving the event isn't to be rewarded but is to be celebrated as a relationship milestone. It's not a quid pro quo. It's not manipulative (her part) or submissive (his part). The house was her "dream" and they both did they're parts to achieve it. He thinks "Yay us!" and she thinks "yeah whatever.." There's a major disconnect there. He tells us that he's done the work to be more available and attentive. Yet, she doesn't seem to want to give him credit for anything, much less praise and encouragement.


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

I have a high drive...and have never wanted to have sex when I was grieving. I would not want to have sex when my dog died. That would just feel wrong. 

I don't judge you for wanting sex...but I don't think your wife is abnormal for not wanting it just because the dog died or you bought her a house.


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## SunnyWife (Aug 6, 2014)

BlueWoman said:


> I have a high drive...and have never wanted to have sex when I was grieving. I would not want to have sex when my dog died. That would just feel wrong.
> 
> I don't judge you for wanting sex...but I don't think your wife is abnormal for not wanting it just because the dog died or you bought her a house.


:iagree:


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

^^^^ looks like a mob wife who's just been called on her stuff and isn't happy about it.

So yeah OP, continue to put the work in, get no acknowledgement for it and deal with being alone in your marriage and unhappy. Great advice that. I can be snarking too.

But seriously, the total disconnect on what has been said in this thread has me miffed. It also has me thinking we should come up with some new class or type for each side. A's marry A's, B's marry B's but never shall the two mix. And if an A turn's into a B or visa versa there needs to be an out clause.


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

The Countess of what?

OK so in the OP's case he A and B did talk. A admitted he was wrong in working too much. A has made the changes B wanted yet B seems unwilling to acknowledge or appreciate A's efforts. B see's her dream home. A and B worked to achieve it. A is excited. B...not so much. A thinks wt*? The mystery is B not cheering for the home team while benefiting from the team's winning record... Maybe B doesn't deserve season tickets.

Enter all the excuses for B that are imagined things that aren't in the thread. 

Beyond that if A's and B's have this totally different attitude about sex why on earth would they want to be together in the first place. The communication should be to establish what side of the fence they're on before marriage and proceed accordingly. Not good for the OP but in general.


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## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

FrenchFry said:


> which is essentially telling how sad and wrong Enjoliwoman (wife proxy?) is for not having the same exact point of view that he does about romance and when romantic feeling should be expected.
> 
> *Yes I do think it is sad and what enjoli thinks I AM THINKING is WRONG. She does not know what I am thinking unless I tell her so. She can only guess. My wife and I argue about her telling me what I think which is typically a cynical misinterpretation much like Enjoli that causes resentment when it is done over and over ad museum with no attempt to see it from the other side. I have the best seat to tell you what I think. Bad guesses based on cynical misinterpretations will be wrong. Yes that is right. Cynical misinterpretations are WRONG and they are the source of this issue. Where is that source coming from? It isn't me. Who's left?*
> 
> ...


Not mad. Not dismissive. Not projecting. Not suggesting there are not differences worth noting and accepting. I was asking if I was wrong/bad/deluded/screwed up to want reward and or celebration sex.

I am uninterested in ceasing discussion and dismissing my interest and desire in closing the gap of understanding and eliminating some misinterpretation because my wife and her camp gets bent out of shape about reconsidering their misplaced cynicism.


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

FrenchFry said:


> um...France? :rofl: :scratchhead: *I don't watch much reality TV so I guess that's just going to be lost on me. I only came up with the Mob Wives thing because they're plastered all over billboards in my city "coming to a strip club near you....")*
> 
> 
> From OP's own words, it is improving because he's spending time with her. Not because he bought her a dream house.
> ...


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

thread the needle said:


> Not mad. Not dismissive. Not projecting. Not suggesting there are not differences worth noting and accepting. I was asking if I was wrong/bad/deluded/screwed up to want reward and or celebration sex.
> 
> *Oh yeah...this is your thread isn't it  Obviously I can relate to much of what you've said. I think the semantics have gotten in the way a little. Would you agree with my point that the "reward and or celebration is (should be) something for you both? Its not a quid pro quo.*
> I am uninterested in ceasing discussion and dismissing my interest and desire in closing the gap of understanding and eliminating some misinterpretation because my wife and her camp gets bent out of shape about reconsidering their misplaced cynicism.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

thread the needle said:


> *Right and the feeling of closeness for MANY despite your claim about "people" you ignore the large subset of "people" that are not like you and they do feel "close" when a significant event they share together that brings them closer is cause for desire and intimacy. Like you, my wife is not one of those people.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My examples with my ex aren't really great because he was abusive and years later diagnosed with a personality disorder. 

But in the end, I think you realize, although you think it's sad or unromantic to perceive things the way I do and your wife, apparently, that she simply doesn't view your gestures as romantic the way you do.

So you can call it sad or pathetic or simply not understand it but you don't have to. Instead, you have to understand what she DOES think of as romantic or meaningful. 

Have you told her why you find those things romantic? That you see a future and building a life in that home; that it's not just a status symbol? (For my ex it was all status, not about life so that might have impacted my feelings/reaction to the purchase plus it was a financial disaster.) If you verbalized those things, maybe THAT would be romantic to her. Maybe she would love to hear how you have dreams that aren't about material things so much as about the life being lived within the walls?

My only point, tho long, was you can't MAKE anyone feel or experience life or love the same way you do. She can't make YOU feel or experience life the way SHE does.

What you both (BOTH - I'm not dismissing her role here) should do is understand what makes the other person feel desirous and lustful, in love, happy and secure in the relationship so that the physical portion or your relationship is satisfactory.

You want appreciation and touch to feel loved. What does she want to feel loved? And does she know what you need to feel loved? If she knows and just doesn't do it, then it's time to lay it on the line and tell her the marriage and all of the dreams are at stake here.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Whatever, Thanks and Kudos to Needle for posting this thread. It helped me to open the topic with my wife and, Hey hey, she get's it. 
MN


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

No, you are not wrong/bad/deluded/screwed up to want *event* sex.

Your wife is not wrong/bad/deluded/screwed up to not want event sex. 

This is one of those areas where the two of you are not on the same page and may never be on the same page. It's ok to express disappointment to her that you won't be getting nekkid on the new dining room table right after the movers leave. Just don't be disappointed or surprised if you see her lip curl.


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## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

My wife's love languages are acts of service and QT. Our moving in and decorating is providing many opportunities for both which is resulting in the closeness feelings resulting in desire. 

My triggers went off when we found the house, made the deal, walked out of the real estate closing together and went to the house to plan a few modifications to the layout and how to utilize each room and when we started setting up the rooms one by one for a future full of new memories.

We have pretty well been romping thru it all so far which has been a nice run so far. I jump her when I trigger. She jumps me when she triggers. It isn't horrible even if the triggers are different. 

I am going to hammer on that cynical misinterpretation so she knows the legitimate romantic thought process in my head. I will continue my pursuit of her happiness with AOS and QT to keep our rekindle going strong

I will alleviate her task orientation by having my crew knock out all the moving tasks that bogs down her libido so we can live larger instead of burn up opportunities to enjoy the process by letting her get overwhelmed focusing on her workload instead of the excitement of a romantic new chapter in formation.

Neither of us is materialistic or ego driven. We both enjoy comfort for the sake of relaxation and the satisfaction of seeing a plan come together without giving up our souls for it.

I have no plans to express disappointment. I communicate bewilderment when bewildered explaining why and ask questions for clarification. 

There is a distinct difference between expecting that closeness and therefore desire will result from an event and having sense of entitlement because of a purchase, gift or act of service. 

I think much is lost in the semantics. The other side of this discussion looks at expectations of a logical outcome as a sense of entitlement due to a generous or thoughtful action. They are not the same at all. Failing to comprehend that is the where it all falls apart. Adding to the failure to make that distinction is the cynical view that it's transactional and it isn't. 

Expecting someone to feel close leading to desire because of a special moment shared together because that is what I feel gets reduced to I bought her this so she should hump my leg as an award is absurd but that is exactly what the opposing view is. Yes I think it's sad because it's a cynical, angry, unfortunate and inaccurate view of the "romantic" spouses thought process.


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## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

*Event sex thought process opposites*

My group thought process > Meaningful event > Feelings of closeness > Feelings of desire > Feelings of romance > isn't this great?

WIfe's group thought process > Meaningful event > I have so much to do > Im too tired and busy > I'm over whelmed > Doesn't this suck? 

*Reward sex thought process opposites*

My group thought process > I do something nice for my wife > I love to make my wife happy with acts of service > Feelings of closeness > Feelings of desire > Feelings of romance > isn't this great?

Wife's group thought process > My husband just did something for me probably to get sex > Now he expects sex because of what he did > What an azzhole > Doesn't this suck that he think he gets a Scooby snack just because he lifts a finger once in a great while? 

*How far off am I?*

Who can see the opposing point of view from their own and who can not?

I just documented both sides for your consideration. Which one is cynical? Which one is misinterpreting the other? What did I miss? Which one is sad/unfortunate/not positive/not story book romance with white picket fence and night in shining armor/not a warm loving story?

Which is focused on half full? Which in half empty? 

Which is focused on what is joyful, positive, productive, accomplished? 

Which is focused on what sucks, is negative, wasted opportunity, what is not done/what is missing so far?

Hmm

Is this penetrating yet or is it hopeless?

Are we going with just accept it and cease attempts at understanding? 

What do I not understand? That some don't get it? 

That they never will? (I don't accept that. I have faith in all of you given the right example, you can do it. Open up your mind. Come on now. It only hurts for a second and voila, you grow)

LOL


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

At least you're not obsessed. Happy trails.


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## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

Blondilocks said:


> At least you're not obsessed. Happy trails.


uh huh thx you too


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

I'm coming to the conversation late and haven't read all the posts but here's my two cents: 

1) The fact that you're an introvert and she's an extrovert is kind of a big deal. She wants to talk to you to feel close and sounds like you don't have the energy after work. Do you ask her about her day and listen attentively? Do you sympathize or try to fix things? When she says she's overwhelmed and tired, do you ask her how you can help (as opposed to telling her what she should do). This might actually make a big difference. 

2) There's nothing wrong with wanting reward or event sex. But I don't think your overall problem is about this. It's about your wife wanting you sexually, in general. And my impression is that she isn't over her resentments and you need counselling to get at why and how to fix it. Sounds like she hasn't been able to articulate it.

3) I feel sexy when I come out of the tanning booth too - cuz I"m naked in a semi-public place. There's kind of a secret exhibitionist vibe to it. If your wife tans on a regular basis, know when those appointments are and try to arrange sex soon after. She will most likely be more responsive at those times. 

4) I feel sorry for guys sometimes cuz the truth is, a lot of women don't know themselves sexually. We don't know what we like / don't like. We don't know what turns us on or not because only bad girls think about those things. And because we can't articulate it for ourselves, we can't articulate it for our partners.

5) Your wife may be thinking as you indicate - women have a hard time understanding the need to be thanked and acknowledged for doing everyday things since we do it all the time without acknowledgement. But the thing you're missing from your wife's thought process is the thing she wants you to do - "if only he would ask me about my day / help with XXX / eat me out once in a while without wanting anything in return" or whatever her particular thing is. She has needs that she feels aren't being met and your understanding of her thought process doesn't acknowledge what those are. To be fair, it may be because she doesn't know either and / or hasn't told you, but there it is.

Kudos to you anyway for putting as much effort in this as you are.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

You make your side sound like the force of good and the other side in league with the dark one. I think I get it though. Sounds like you want to celebrate with the person you love. You are obviously happy with the choice you made for a partner and look forward to the future. Don't make it about right and wrong.

I'm like your wife - thinking of how to keep things neat and clean and forgetting to have fun along the way. I don't want to be made to feel wrong about it. There are times, many not appreciated, when my efforts at keeping order was an advantage to my husband and kids.

Your wife has her priorities that are sometimes appreciated if not explicitly then certainly implicitly. You have yours and experience the same dynamic. So you are on equal footing. Your position is not superior, it's different from your wife. Judging from your posts, you'er not inviting her to a party or to celebrate or to have fun with you. You are looking for reassurance and forgiveness for the past. I think you deserve to be forgiven and your love celebrated. 

Separate out the need to resolve the issues from the past and the need for simple enjoyment of life's treasures now. When you invite her to party, make it light, stay upbeat. She will figure out that it is her loss provided you refrain from making her feel wrong. 

On a separate note, resolve the past issues explicitly. You may need the help of a third party. It's not fair to either of you to have this hanging over your heads.


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