# When Men Are Raped



## chris007 (Jul 15, 2015)

"A new study reveals that men are often the victims of sexual assault, and women are often the perpetrators"

"Last year the National Crime Victimization Survey turned up a remarkable statistic. In asking 40,000 households about rape and sexual violence, the* survey uncovered that 38 percent of incidents were against men..."
*
"...The experience of men and women is “a lot closer than any of us would expect,” she says. For some kinds of victimization, men and women have roughly equal experiences. Stemple concluded that we need to “completely rethink our assumptions about sexual victimization,” and especially our fallback model that *men are always the perpetrators and women the victims...."*

"One of those surveys is the 2010 National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey, for which the Centers for Disease Control invented a category of sexual violence called “being made to penetrate.” This definition includes victims who were forced to penetrate someone else with their own body parts, either by physical force or coercion, or when the victim was drunk or high or otherwise unable to consent. When those cases were taken into account, the rates of nonconsensual sexual contact basically equalized, with *1.270 million women and 1.267 million men *claiming to be victims of sexual violence."

"Women were more likely to be abused by fellow female inmates, and men by guards, and many of those guards were female. For example, of juveniles reporting staff sexual misconduct,* 89 percent were boys reporting abuse by a female staff member*. In total, inmates reported an astronomical 900,000 incidents of sexual abuse."

http://www.slate.com/articles/doubl..._reveals_that_men_are_sexually_assaulted.html

Discuss.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

What are you asking? Is this a good thing? Clearly not. I wish attitudes about men could be changed such that they were comfortable seeking services and that services were available. I wonder what it must be like to them facing going to a police station or a hospital. Not good.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

Rape is bad no matter who it happens to. Women have a hard time going in and reporting it - I would imagine men have a more difficult time doing so. What's the question or how did you want to discuss this?


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## chris007 (Jul 15, 2015)

Just find there isn't much discussion about men as victims of rape, and wanted to get some feedback from you guys. Any personal experiences? Do you know a man that has been rapes/sexually assaulted and admitted as much? How can we decrease the number of men being raped and how do we remove the stigma that prevents many from reporting?


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

The only sexual assault I know of a man was when he was a teenager. The assailant was male.

Removing the stigma. You got me there. Brave victims who are willing to stand up and speak, maybe?


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

I am trying to picture a scenario. I can understand young boys getting raped, but how does a woman rape a man unless he is old or disabled or drugged? How does the sex happen, is he able to get an erection during it all?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I was drunk and high as a kid a couple of times when young women took advantage of the situation but I honestly didn't feel violated by them when I sobered up. I was in high school.

I was harmed sexually by both men and women as a child and felt pretty bad about those experiences.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## chris007 (Jul 15, 2015)

nirvana said:


> I am trying to picture a scenario. I can understand young boys getting raped, but how does a woman rape a man unless he is old or disabled or drugged? How does the sex happen, is he able to get an erection during it all?


Yes, men can get an erection without consent and/or being conscious, much like women can be aroused and both can orgasm when being raped. Its strictly physiological. to give you an example how a man can be raped - when I was a little younger I was raped by a young woman, very attractive btw, who was a girlfriend of a friend. She has come on to me several times before, and I shut her down simply because I am a loyal friend and would not betray a friend by sleeping with his gf. 

One night we ended up staying at a friends place for the night, I fell asleep on a couch in a room and woke up with her riding me, full PIV and all. Within two minutes as I was coming back to full consciousness, we were both done and that was that. I was upset because I couldn't stop it soon enough, although I was able to come to terms with what happened some time later. It happens in many different ways.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I think a lot of people believe its impossible, which adds to the stigma. Men are pretty much as susceptible to rape as women are, except that on average they are less likely to be raped by direct physical restraint because women are on average physically weaker than men.

Its really difficult to know the number since men are expected to enjoy sex, and are unlikely to report rape - and may not even quite recognize it when it happens.

That said, I suspect it is much less common than male on female rape.

Then there is a huge grey area of being pressured for sex, pregnancy by deception etc - various forms of "bad" sexual things that can happen to men. 


As far as mechanics, erections are pretty involuntary. Straight men can even orgasm during homosexual rape (just as women can during rape). This can make even the victim think that maybe they "wanted it". 



I think the best that can be done is to raise awareness that not all men want sex all the time, and that coercing someone into sex is rape, no matter what the genders are. 





nirvana said:


> I am trying to picture a scenario. I can understand young boys getting raped, but how does a woman rape a man unless he is old or disabled or drugged? How does the sex happen, is he able to get an erection during it all?


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

Interesting viewpoints.
I still think that women are more LIKELY to be raped than men. 
But it is true that no one takes a raped man seriously. 

chris, how did you deal with it? Did you report her?


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## Icey181 (Apr 16, 2015)

Going to sound like a broken record here but…

Men and Women commit IPV and sexual assault at basically identical rates and furthermore we have known this to be true since the 1970s at least.

The issue is the people who, despite direct evidence to the contrary, refuse to "believe it."

Short of a full-scale shift in cultural views on men and women when it comes to sex, nothing is going to come from these kinds of studies.

People tend not to care overly much for weak or victimized men, at least not in any functional manner.

This is the interesting thing, which I have told people before:


> For years, the FBI defined forcible rape, for data collecting purposes, as *“the carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will.”* Eventually localities began to rebel against that limited gender-bound definition; in 2010 Chicago reported 86,767 cases of rape but used its own broader definition, so the FBI left out the Chicago stats. Finally, in 2012, the FBI revised its definition and focused on penetration, with no mention of female (or force).


When someone turns around and asks, "How can a man be raped by a woman? Isn't that impossible…" I often wonder how my forehead withstands the force of my palm…


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

FFS. Are you serious!

Couldn't win in in the bachelor thread so now you're going after women by saying men are raped just as often?

Okay, I'm gonna take a page from a friends book, who has two hyper competitive sons... "You win. Okay you totally win. Now can we play the game?"

Rape is not a competition of victim hood.

Aren't you tired of playing the "men are victims" game? I sure as hell am. So you win. Men are victims. Totally beaten down victims.

Done!


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> FFS. Are you serious!
> 
> Couldn't win in in the bachelor thread so now you're going after women by saying men are raped just as often?
> 
> ...


Thanks for showing us how fair you are.


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## Icey181 (Apr 16, 2015)

Wow Pink.

Amazing how you made a thread about the under-reported nature of sexual assault on male victims all about how men are weak,

Good on you.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

Those poor men. I would be so upset if anything like this happened to any of my men that I love.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

If this thread was really about how under reported rape is for male victims, why was put in the ladies lounge? Never mind don't answer, I won't be back to this thread again.


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

My college boyfriend told me that his first sexual intercourse experience was forced on him by a woman. I didn't know how to handle that information. I wasn't sure how it could happen. It was over 20 years ago now and I can't remember exactly what I said, I think it was asking if there was anything I could do, or shouldn't do, to help him. It didn't seem to negatively affect him, but he might have opted to not say anything more to me about it. Now that I'm older/wiser, I wish I'd been more supportive and tried to talk with him about it more. 

I think it takes a tremendous amount of courage for a man to talk about being raped. There is this belief that men always want sex, they would never turn it down, and this feeds the belief that men can't be raped by women. Men being raped by men is treated as a greater crime; it's accepted that an assault by a male is unwanted and painful/damaging.

For things to change, we need a lot more education. You can see the challenge ahead in the current perspective on statutory rape with males. Female teachers have rightfully gone to jail for it, but socially/culturally male statutory rape is a joke, made fun of on SNL, etc. The male is celebrated for his "accomplishment" of getting it on with teachers. It's not taken seriously.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

It is taken seriously by the parents of those boys, I'm sure.

At publications like The Good Men Project, there are a lot of people helping to spread the word that rape happens to men, and that victims should be able to get help without being either celebrated (yeah great job for banging the teacher!) or shamed (how the hell could you let someone rape you?)

Male Rape Survivors and Victim-Blaming -

The Sexual Abuse of Boys Is Not About "Getting Lucky" and We Need to Stop Promoting This Myth -

From Hurt To Healing ? Male Survivors of Sexual Abuse -

I've known three men (personally, and quite a few others online) who were raped or molested. They are all messed up by it. One to the point that he never was able to have normal relationships in his life, until he finally gave up at age 55.

It is heartbreaking.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
Its definitely not a competition. Statistics on male rape are likely very inaccurate, but it really doesn't matter how common it is relative to female rape.

There is some deep and old sexism in views of rape. It is "stealing" a girl's virginity and thereby reducing her value to her father. It is making a husband unsure of the parentage of his children. Long ago it was more a crime against the male "owner" of the woman, than against the woman herself (whos husband was free to rape here whenever he wished). In addition a woman can become pregnant by rape, resulting in a life-long commitment to raising a child.

Male rape never had that issue. There was no requirement for men to be virgins when they married. Infidelity in men may result in children, but typically the man could accept or reject those children at his option.


The modern world change thiss. At least in the west, women are never someone's property. Men can be responsible for children that they father - in some jurisdictions even if the pregnancy was by deception. (I don't know if there have been any rulings on child support for men who were raped).

This changes the balance to where male and female rape are more symmetric crimes than they have been in the past. Still, they are not the same. Women are far more likely to be injured and rape is far more likely to be painful than for men. The crime is less physical and more psychological.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

chris007 said:


> Just find there isn't much discussion about men as victims of rape, and wanted to get some feedback from you guys. Any personal experiences? Do you know a man that has been rapes/sexually assaulted and admitted as much? How can we decrease the number of men being raped and how do we remove the stigma that prevents many from reporting?


I have had two experiences of women taking advantage of morning glory when we were not on good terms. On waking up and making it clear I did not want sex and them disregarding this there were two choices:
1. Manhandle them.
2. Finish the job off and get it done.

Choosing (1) is going to be assault and a rape plea will not be good mitigation. So, I went for option (2). 

However, there is a big issue, *I did not find it traumatizing. To use the word rape in this case is to cheapen it.* One was becoming slightly domineering and we were splitting up, if it made her feel better - then OK. The second was a radical feminist who would not consider that the woman could be in the wrong and I was near the end of my tether with her anyway - so I dumped her and moved on.

This is not comparable to being taken advantage of when you feel trapped in a marriage or when it is done by someone not intimate with. 

Funnily enough, I had always been skeptical of the idea that men rape and do not realise they raped. Until the second time, when the radical feminist lady inadvertently showed me how it was possible.

The impact on the individual is the measure of the crime.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

What is the aim of the OP posting this thread? The outcome was obvious. 

Prison rape is one of the most underreported crimes against men. I suspect that very few of these victims ever report this violation. Child molestation is underreported. I suspect the number of boys molested is close to the number of girls but men dare not say what happened. Instead they use alcohol or drugs to numb the pain.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

nirvana said:


> I am trying to picture a scenario. I can understand young boys getting raped, but how does a woman rape a man unless he is old or disabled or drugged? How does the sex happen, is he able to get an erection during it all?


Quite simple:

My own experience, when I was 17. I was dating somebody at the time, went out with a bunch of friends (which didn't include my gf), wound up back at one of said (male) friends houses to crash in his basement. Other girl who was present, and lived nearby, invited herself over. Everybody else went home. Male friend went to bed, upstairs, leaving me (miles from home) alone in the basement with this girl. I asked my friend if I could crash on his bedroom floor, because I didn't like the optics of this situation to begin with. He said nope, sorry (thanks dude...)

Girl puts the moves on me, I'm not interested. She keeps trying, I'm still not interested. I find a corner in the laundry room (!!!) to get away from her and get some sleep. 5 minutes later, she's in there, getting on top of me. More discussion about how this is not going to happen, GTFO.

Next words out of her mouth were "If you don't **** me right now, I'm going to tell your gf and everybody else you did, anyway".

By this time, we had already been alone in the basement long enough that buddy upstairs probably would have believed her. It was 3 or 4am, I was nowhere near home, no car, no bike, no running buses. No options. I tried to reason with her, but got nowhere. She was determined. I tried to tire her out of this by talking rationally and calmly, but it didn't happen. I probably could have kept this up until somebody in the house woke up, but she maintained that she'd tell people we did it, anyway.

For what it's worth, I didn't finish. Yes, I got hard, but that was a physical reaction. Trust me, I was hoping it wouldn't work for once... She rode me until she was done, a good 20 minutes at least. She tried to get me to change positions, I said no way, so she kept going. She had a ridiculously violent orgasm, to boot, which I thought was crazy. She probably was getting off on the power aspect of it all.

Two days later, I told my girlfriend what happened. I didn't want this casting a shadow over us, or worse, that it would get out and she'd hear it from somebody else. We broke up for two weeks. We got back together, but I don't think she ever believed how it happened, or that it was possible. Things were never the same again.

There's no doubt this sort of thing happens, but it's embarrassing, for one. For two, people generally don't believe you. There's already enough doubt when a woman makes this sort of claim, but when the genders are swapped, it's even worse.

The thing is, I didn't feel physically or sexually violated, and I don't think I'm the only man this has happened to who hasn't. What I felt was helpless. Not to defend myself, but trapped. If you don't do this, then I'll ruin your life as you currently know it. That's a terrible feeling. That, and knowing what she did, yet not being able to tell anybody.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Alexm, what a freaking nightmare. I am sorry that happened.

And it really gives some credence to the idea that the whole thing is about power.


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## nirvana (Jul 2, 2012)

alexm, thats some scary sheet man... wow.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> If this thread was really about how under reported rape is for male victims, why was put in the ladies lounge? Never mind don't answer, I won't be back to this thread again.


I agree AP. It is a serious subject that is being used as a hate against women topic. A very quick online search shows the stats in the OP are out of line with what the bulk of other sources portray. That is NOT to say that any of the stats are acceptable, they aren't, it is horrific that anyone, gender, race, age etc is subjected to this crime. 



> 1 out of every 6 American women has been the victim of an attempted or completed rape in her lifetime (14.8% completed rape; 2.8% attempted rape).1
> 
> 17.7 million American women have been victims of attempted or completed rape.1
> 
> ...


This topic is one that needs to be discussed but comments such as the one the OP made about his attacker being attractive do nothing for the discussion, in fact they make the topic less credible which is the abhorrent. Sexual abuse/rape is a crime of violence and not about how attractive the attacker is, how belittling to all those men and women that have truly suffered at the hands of a monster.

Violence against anyone is terrible and we need to work cohesively to be able to ever see it decrease.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Holland said:


> Sexual abuse/rape is a crime of violence and not about how attractive the attacker is, how belittling to all those men and women that have truly suffered at the hands of a monster.


What I have noticed here is that on this topic in these forums, there is a very different outcome for rape when a man is the victim. Several men have said that while the event was disturbing, it also wasn't sexually traumatic. Do men inherently understand that rape is a power dynamic, not a sexual issue? Or are they just harder to damage sexually? 

I'm nearly certain that I would feel much the same way in the same situation. Rape (at least, heterosexual rape) seems to have a fundamentally different effect on men and women.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Cletus, when men are raped by a woman at a young age, or when they are raped by another man, then they tend to describe the same feelings as women who are raped have. Also they are then more likely to have been physically harmed during the rape as well.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Cletus, when men are raped by a woman at a young age, or when they are raped by another man, then they tend to describe the same feelings as women who are raped have. Also they are then more likely to have been physically harmed during the rape as well.


I'm only going by the self-reports made here in TAM. Those men, several of them, have said that they didn't feel particularly sexually violated by the event. I have never heard a woman here make the same statement - usually, their self-admission is that it took work and time to overcome, or wounded them permanently. 

Now I did specifically say HETEROSEXUAL rape.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Actually Conan hub had reported here and on other posts that he was sexually assaulted by both male and female as a child and he has described immense emotional pain and lifetime effects from it.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Actually Conan hub had reported here and on other posts that he was sexually assaulted by both male and female as a child and he has described immense emotional pain and lifetime effects from it.


You can no doubt find examples on both sides. Only a fool would think otherwise. 

Is there or is there not a statistical difference between outcomes for male and female populations? As in x% of men raped by a woman do not feel particularly violated, whereas y% of women feel that way, and the difference betwen x and y is statistically significant? 

I suspect, but cannot prove, that the answer is yes.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I suspect also, but I wouldn't dare to guess since it could deeply hurt anyone reading who had felt extremely violated from that experience.


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## ExiledBayStater (Feb 16, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Holland said:
> 
> 
> > Sexual abuse/rape is a crime of violence and not about how attractive the attacker is, how belittling to all those men and women that have truly suffered at the hands of a monster.
> ...


If I had to guess, I would say most of that difference is because most men weren't penetrated during the act. Throw in digital or object penetration and I imagine things would change.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Cletus said:


> I'm only going by the self-reports made here in TAM. Those men, several of them, have said that they didn't feel particularly sexually violated by the event. I have never heard a woman here make the same statement - usually, their self-admission is that it took work and time to overcome, or wounded them permanently.
> 
> Now I did specifically say HETEROSEXUAL rape.


I was taken advantage of in high school and as a young adult a couple times when I didn't give consent. I was single and knew the young women well. I didn't feel messed up by it but I had experienced far worse as a child. I just remembered one time that bothered me a lot.

I wasn't attracted to this woman at all. We were acquainted but not friends.

She was someone I would never consider having sex with. I woke up with her hands frantically working my unit and told her to stop.
Fortunately, I was sober and I talked her into leaving even though she was persistent and offered me, literally, anything I wanted and she told me she was good at it as well.

I was actually slightly traumatized by that one as it happened in my house and I couldn't sleep soundly anymore.

I had trouble sleeping for maybe 20 years or more after that.

The other times, I was drunk and feeling randy anyway so I didn't mind that much. I also knew the women well, liked them and probably would have told one no if sober. The one I would have told no to just helped herself with her hands however so it was less invasive.

If I had a woman take advantage / rape or assault/ today, I would feel extremely violated and furious.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

ExiledBayStater said:


> If I had to guess, I would say most of that difference is because most men weren't penetrated during the act. Throw in digital or object penetration and I imagine things would change.


Most likely that would change the impact. 

I have to ask if the OP were raped by a man, would the attackers attractiveness have been mentioned?
I know it is a terrible question but just trying to get to the real reason for this thread. If it is about the horrendous crime of sexual abuse towards men then let's discuss that. If it is merely another passive aggressive attempt to hate on women then grow up. After all this is the same member that thinks that smart people do not believe in feminism.

Here is what smart people understand about feminism, that it is about women bettering themselves, not being better than men. 

No man or woman should ever have to endure a crime of any type against them, neither is more or less deserving of care and compassion from society, the police, the Govt.

Female victims often do not speak up and I would guess in some cases it is even harder for men to report. We as a society need to make the perpetrator the focus of shame, not the victim.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

staarz21 said:


> Rape is bad no matter who it happens to. Women have a hard time going in and reporting it - I would imagine men have an ever harder time doing so. What's the question or how did you want to discuss this?


* With my luck, if I fell into a barrel full of breasts, I'd come out of there sucking my thumb!

And if I were to get raped, it would probably be by some ugly, skanky, flat-chested old crone wielding an unloaded Glock and has herself a flaring case of gonnorhea! 

And then when I finally got around to going to the police to report it all, they'd lock my sorry a$$ up and throw the key away for what they'd say is simply the filing of a false police report!*


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

That's very insensitive, Arb.

And inappropriate. 

I appreciate you were just kidding with a Rodney Dangerfield bent on it, but rape simply isn't funny.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> That's very insensitive, Arb.
> 
> And inappropriate.
> 
> I appreciate you were just kidding with a Rodney Dangerfield bent on it, but rape simply isn't funny.


* I can't really see the insensitivity of it since the "rape" of a man by a female counterpart is truly the exception much rather than the rule! Truth be known, the number of such incidents that occur nationally are extremely minute in relation to a man raping a female!

Make no mistake about it: Rape is not funny no matter who it legitimately occurs to and whatever it's underlying circumstances! But a man getting raped by a woman is so unheard of that the most liberal minded of cops and even prosecutors would simply raise their eyebrows and say, "Yeah, right!"*


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## ExiledBayStater (Feb 16, 2013)

Holland said:


> ExiledBayStater said:
> 
> 
> > If I had to guess, I would say most of that difference is because most men weren't penetrated during the act. Throw in digital or object penetration and I imagine things would change.
> ...


I would love to see this thread move to the Clubhouse.

Anyway, the OPs mention that the woman was attractive is relevant because rape victims may wonder if it is really rape if the rapist was attractive. I've seen plenty of assurances to that end in the anti-rape literature back in college.

The admins putting that out did not ever consider that men could be rape victims. The language and images werr all female victims, male perps. They weren't out to conquer the world for women, it just never occurred to them that men could be vulnerable too.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

See, and then you say "rape" as if they are making it up. That follows the mindset you just described regarding cops and prosecutors. It makes me, and possibly others (I can't speak for everyone), think that you don't even believe those in this thread who have stated it has happened to them. I hope I am wrong.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

ExiledBayStater said:


> I would love to see this thread move to the Clubhouse.
> 
> *Anyway, the OPs mention that the woman was attractive is relevant because rape victims may wonder if it is really rape if the rapist was attractive. I've seen plenty of assurances to that end in the anti-rape literature back in college.*
> 
> The admins putting that out did not ever consider that men could be rape victims. The language and images werr all female victims, male perps. They weren't out to conquer the world for women, it just never occurred to them that men could be vulnerable too.


That is just plain awful and makes a joke of crime. No wonder some men don't report.

So if someone is robbed or beaten does the crime become lesser if the criminal is good looking?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

My current feminist crush is on Amy Schumer. 

She lampoons any topic with a razor sharp whit. She did a satirical skit this year on rape culture that was funny, influential, and topical.


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## ExiledBayStater (Feb 16, 2013)

Holland said:


> That is just plain awful and makes a joke of crime. No wonder some men don't report.
> 
> So if someone is robbed or beaten does the crime become lesser if the criminal is good looking?


Don't jump on me, please. I'm speaking of a real problem.

We males turn and are told we're going to want a lot of sex. If a woman forces herself on one of us, we may not know what to call it. Especially since the prevailing definition of rape in the USA wasn't updated to include male victims until recently.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

ExiledBayStater said:


> Don't jump on me, please. I'm speaking of a real problem.
> 
> We males turn and are told we're going to want a lot of sex. If a woman forces herself on one of us, we may not know what to call it. Especially since the prevailing definition of rape in the USA wasn't updated to include male victims until recently.


You have me wrong, sorry I was not jumping on you, I was exclaiming how awful it is that men that are victims of crime are not taken seriously.


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## ExiledBayStater (Feb 16, 2013)

Holland said:


> You have me wrong, sorry I was not jumping on you, I was exclaiming how awful it is that men that are victims of crime are not taken seriously.


Sorry, thank you for clarifying.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> * But a man getting raped by a woman is so unheard of that the most liberal minded of cops and even prosecutors would simply raise their eyebrows and say, "Yeah, right!"*


Which is a travesty and an injustice. And although I don't think the motives of the OP of this thread (who is banned now, by the way) were to actually help any male victims of rape, I do and have always felt compassion for any rape victim and yes, women do rape, they rape both men and women.

Men also rape men and women.

None of it is funny.

Thankfully lately, at least cops listen to and prosecute female teachers preying on students...can you imagine being the father of a teenaged boy who was raped by a female teacher and having a cop laugh in yours and his face about the allegations? 

When my son was aged 13 - 17, because he is a dancer, he had all kinds of cougars following him around at every dance. Hugging and kissing on him, making him feel like a BMOC. Of course, he was (innocently) flattered and loving it. But I could see through some of them, and some actually would have pushed the envelope if they got him alone long enough. Not because he's cute, but because they were creepy predators. I warned him about this, and he looked very frightened and awkward about it, but he did listen.

Now that he is 28 he has told me "yeah mom, wow, some of those women really were after me like that...I was so young, that's so gross!" I'm like "I know, that's why I warned you back then".

He also told me of at least one man who made creepy talk and weird advances toward him during that time.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

alexm said:


> Quite simple:
> 
> My own experience, when I was 17. I was dating somebody at the time, went out with a bunch of friends (which didn't include my gf), wound up back at one of said (male) friends houses to crash in his basement. Other girl who was present, and lived nearby, invited herself over. Everybody else went home. Male friend went to bed, upstairs, leaving me (miles from home) alone in the basement with this girl. I asked my friend if I could crash on his bedroom floor, because I didn't like the optics of this situation to begin with. He said nope, sorry (thanks dude...)
> 
> ...


Horrible. In a way, you were violated but you dodged the bomb. Suppose she had an STD or she got pregnant?

Statutory rape, a young boy or girl can easily be manipulate to have sex with an adult. If a boy is convinced to have sex with his teacher for instance, what effect does that have on his sexual and psychological development. He is unlikely to reveal problems. He's a man and therefore he can't feel sexually violated or used. He just needs to deal with it.


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> * I can't really see the insensitivity of it since the "rape" of a man by a female counterpart is truly the exception much rather than the rule! Truth be known, the number of such incidents that occur nationally are extremely minute in relation to a man raping a female!
> 
> Make no mistake about it: Rape is not funny no matter who it legitimately occurs to and whatever it's underlying circumstances! But a man getting raped by a woman is so unheard of that the most liberal minded of cops and even prosecutors would simply raise their eyebrows and say, "Yeah, right!"*


This post offends me to the extreme. I have a son and I would NEVER want to think about this happening to him. Rape happens to men, and sometimes by women. Yes, women do rape.

There was a 13 year old boy in the Pacific Northwest who was raped by his teacher and she became pregnant. And to top that off they decided to raise the child...appalling. Forgot the name of this case...

Anyway, viewpoint like yours is the reason why so many men hide in fear of being ridiculed in public when they are raped....disgusting!


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Catherine602 said:


> Horrible. In a way, you were violated but you dodged the bomb. Suppose she had an STD or she got pregnant?


No, it would have made it worse.

But I get what you're saying.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Cletus said:


> I'm only going by the self-reports made here in TAM. Those men, several of them, have said that they didn't feel particularly sexually violated by the event. I have never heard a woman here make the same statement - usually, their self-admission is that it took work and time to overcome, or wounded them permanently.
> 
> Now I did specifically say HETEROSEXUAL rape.





ExiledBayStater said:


> If I had to guess, I would say most of that difference is because most men weren't penetrated during the act. Throw in digital or object penetration and I imagine things would change.


That's definitely part of it. As I'm not a woman, I can't begin to understand, but I would imagine that having something forced into you against your will is far more damaging then the reverse.

In my case, there was no physical overpowering or forcing - it was all mental/emotional, through use of threats.

And because she was a teenage girl (15, by the way. I was 17), and rather petite, there was no chance of physical overpowering. I very very briefly considered throwing her off me (and probably worse), but that certainly would have sealed my fate right there, and made things infinitely worse for me.

And that's the thing - I had zero options at that point. Running away doesn't make me look good. Hurting her would make me look worse. Refusing to do it, and she would have (allegedly) told people I did, anyway.

As for the sexual aspect of it, there was none, for me. I didn't feel a thing. I refused to participate or even move. And unlike male on female rape, it didn't hurt.

What it did leave me with was trust issues. It's never affected any relationships I've had, and hasn't affected me sexually (no flashbacks or anything). However, I do realize, just now, that I have a slight preference to be submissive, or at least prefer the woman to take charge a bit. Perhaps it has something to do with that...

But, I've since been extremely cautious with whom I'm alone with, even to this day, while I'm in a relationship with somebody. And I also have an unhealthy fixation with proving my innocence when somebody thinks I did something wrong, or bad, or otherwise accuses me of such. Most people can shrug stuff like that off, and it's enough that they know they're innocent. I tend to obsess when these things happen, because I don't want anybody thinking I did something I didn't do, or that I'm someone I'm not. Ugh.


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## ExiledBayStater (Feb 16, 2013)

alexm said:


> That's definitely part of it. As I'm not a woman, I can't begin to understand, but I would imagine that having something forced into you against your will is far more damaging then the reverse.
> 
> In my case, there was no physical overpowering or forcing - it was all mental/emotional, through use of threats.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry that happened to you.

Do you have advice for someone else facing that situation?


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

ExiledBayStater said:


> I'm sorry that happened to you.
> 
> Do you have advice for someone else facing that situation?


That's a really tough question to answer.

Hindsight is 20/20, and had it happened now, with the benefit of maturity and experience, I guess I could have gone and woken up my friend (or his parents) and told them that this girl was threatening me in this way.

But people who are capable of things like this usually know they have you over a barrel, and that one doesn't always think clearly when blindsided by something like this. The mind races, and it's easy to miss a relatively simple solution like that one, I guess. But with threats like that, you tend to think worst-case scenario, and the ability to reason and recognize the narrow escape routes you may have at the time, disappears.

Also, when it's a girl/woman, they likely feel they will be believed, anyway.

Like I said, this whole thing caused me to be very aware of situations in which I was alone with a girl who was not my girlfriend (when I was dating, or married to, someone).

Listen, my story was unfortunate, but I'm well aware that it does not compare to those of others, man or woman (especially women). I DID have the capability to stop it (despite there being potentially horrible consequences), whereas far too many people don't even have that "Sophie's Choice" option.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

alexm said:


> That's a really tough question to answer.
> 
> Hindsight is 20/20, and had it happened now, with the benefit of maturity and experience, I guess I could have gone and woken up my friend (or his parents) and told them that this girl was threatening me in this way.


Which would take a HUGE amount of courage.



> But people who are capable of things like this usually know they have you over a barrel, and that one doesn't always think clearly when blindsided by something like this. The mind races, and it's easy to miss a relatively simple solution like that one, I guess. But with threats like that, you tend to think worst-case scenario, and the ability to reason and recognize the narrow escape routes you may have at the time, disappears.
> 
> Also, when it's a girl/woman, they likely feel they will be believed, anyway.


Now, thanks goodness. Not when I was a kid and it happened to me.



> Like I said, this whole thing caused me to be very aware of situations in which I was alone with a girl who was not my girlfriend (when I was dating, or married to, someone).


For any number of reasons included in the false accusation threat that you received.



> Listen, my story was unfortunate, but I'm well aware that it does not compare to those of others, man or woman (especially women). I DID have the capability to stop it (despite there being potentially horrible consequences), whereas far too many people don't even have that "Sophie's Choice" option.


This is not a victim contest.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
Its very difficult to know the real numbers, but it certainly happens. It really doesn't matter how common it is relative to male on female rape it is still worth discussing. There are also lots of discussions on female rape, so that topic is not being ignored. 






arbitrator said:


> * I can't really see the insensitivity of it since the "rape" of a man by a female counterpart is truly the exception much rather than the rule! Truth be known, the number of such incidents that occur nationally are extremely minute in relation to a man raping a female!
> 
> Make no mistake about it: Rape is not funny no matter who it legitimately occurs to and whatever it's underlying circumstances! But a man getting raped by a woman is so unheard of that the most liberal minded of cops and even prosecutors would simply raise their eyebrows and say, "Yeah, right!"*


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I think male rape is in many ways more complex than female rape. (not claiming better or worse).

One complexity is that many men are happy to have sex with random strangers. I had an incident where a bunch of us were staying at a friends house. A girl I barely knew climbed into my bed. Personally I was quite happy with the situation, but certainly some men would have felt very differently. I think that many women believe that climbing into a man's bed is doing them a favor. Few men would think the same about climbing into a strange woman's bed. I think few women would be happy to have a strange man climb into bed with them.

There is a very different social expectation. At a party, a woman screaming rape will (I hope) quickly bring help, and the man will be arrested, beaten up, or something. Imagine the same if a man screamed rape.

Since the effects are mostly psychological not physical I think the trauma caused by being raped varies greatly between men. Some men can be very traumatized, others would not mind almost any form of non-violent "rape". I think in this sense male rape is much more victim dependent than female rape.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> I think male rape is in many ways more complex than female rape. (not claiming better or worse).
> 
> *One complexity is that many men are happy to have sex with random strangers.* I had an incident where a bunch of us were staying at a friends house. A girl I barely knew climbed into my bed. Personally I was quite happy with the situation, but certainly some men would have felt very differently. I think that many women believe that climbing into a man's bed is doing them a favor. Few men would think the same about climbing into a strange woman's bed. I think few women would be happy to have a strange man climb into bed with them.
> ...


Rape is considered as much a crime of violence not sex. Maybe that is some of the difference in the thinking about when it happens to a man by a woman. If a man is raped by another man/men most likely they would then consider the crime was violent.

Be careful RS with your language, there is a line here that you are close to crossing that may imply to some that rape is about sex, for women it is more about violence, being over powered, injured, beaten, degraded and possibly filmed. The effects of some of these attacks cause PTSD and ruin the woman's life forever, mentally and physically.


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## ExiledBayStater (Feb 16, 2013)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> I think male rape is in many ways more complex than female rape. (not claiming better or worse).
> 
> One complexity is that many men are happy to have sex with random strangers. I had an incident where a bunch of us were staying at a friends house. A girl I barely knew climbed into my bed. Personally I was quite happy with the situation, but certainly some men would have felt very differently. I think that many women believe that climbing into a man's bed is doing them a favor. Few men would think the same about climbing into a strange woman's bed. I think few women would be happy to have a strange man climb into bed with them.
> ...


When I was single, I might have been in the second category. Being married, I would probably take a misdemeanor assault conviction to avoid getting raped. Then I'd get sent to prison, defeating the purpose. Oh ****. I'd better think this scenario through.

@Amplexor, any chance we could move this thread to the Men's Clubhouse since the OP is banned?


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## alltheprettyflowers (Jul 24, 2015)

Animals get raped by people as well.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

alltheprettyflowers said:


> Animals get raped by people as well.


Oy???
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

alltheprettyflowers said:


> Animals get raped by people as well.


They most certainly do.. I have had several cases where this was involved.. 

But I will tell you this.. I have never taken a report for a male being raped by a woman. I do not know anyone who has had an investigation dealing with this and I never seen any evidence come into our lab related to an adult woman raping an adult male.. 

I have had cases in which adult males raped young adult males.. 

And we all know the female teacher vs young male student cases.. 

But in 25 years in the PD I have never had an adult female vs adult male.. 

Oddly enough I can literally say I did more beastially cases. Which is fvcking crazy.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ExiledBayStater said:


> @Amplexor, any chance we could move this thread to the Men's Clubhouse since the OP is banned?


I moved the thread..


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Rape and sexual violence against anyone… man, woman or child is a horrible crime. As someone who was violently raped once and been a victim of attempted murder/rape, I take it very seriously.

In order to address this societal ill and work to end as much rape and sexual violence as is possible, we need to know what we are dealing with. There is no prefect data out there. A lot of people, males and females, never come forward when raped and/or having experience sexual violence. On top of that, the stats do not ask how many times a person was raped or experienced sexual violence. The question is only if it has happened. I believe that if we were to add the number of unreported and the number of multiple crimes, the numbers would be more staggering than what the reports who now.

One thing about the CDC report that is most interesting is that they asked a lot more questions and got more detail. It’s not a report of the rapes/violence that has been reported to the police. It’s more a report of the subject’s deep dark secrets. But it still does not count the multiple rape/violence incidents. For anyone interested in the topic, I suggest that the report is long but a very interesting read.

The OP linked to some webpages with info/statistics. He story of fudged some info and left other info out.


chris007 said:


> "Last year the National Crime Victimization Survey turned up a remarkable statistic. In asking 40,000 households about rape and sexual violence, the survey uncovered that 38 percent of incidents were against men..."


The report also stated: 
46 percent of male victims reported a female perpetrator. 
54 percent of male victims reported a male perpetrator. 
In total, inmates reported an astronomical 900,000 incidents of sexual abuse. 
Male rape in America: A new study reveals that men are sexually assaulted almost as often as women.

These numbers differ from the CDC’s 2010 National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey. I think that this report is more in depth and give interesting data. 


chris007 said:


> "One of those surveys is the 2010 National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey, for which the Centers for Disease Control invented a category of sexual violence called “being made to penetrate.” This definition includes victims who were forced to penetrate someone else with their own body parts, either by physical force or coercion, or when the victim was drunk or high or otherwise unable to consent. When those cases were taken into account, the rates of nonconsensual sexual contact basically equalized, with *1.270 million women and 1.267 million men *claiming to be victims of sexual violence."


His claim of *1.270 million women and 1.267 million men *claiming to be victims of sexual violence." Is not in the report. I have no idea where he got those numbers. The numbers are not equalized.

The CDC report says that rape/sexual-violence against men is about 25% of all rape/sexual-violence.

http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs_report2010-a.pdf

*Sex of Perpetrator in Lifetime Reports of Sexual Violence

Most perpetrators of all forms of sexual violence against women were male. For female rape victims, 98.1% reported only male perpetrators. Additionally, 92.5% of female victims of sexual violence other than rape reported only male perpetrators. 

For male victims, the sex of the perpetrator varied by the type of sexual violence experienced. The majority of male rape victims (93.3%) reported only male perpetrators. For three of the other forms of sexual violence, a majority of male victims reported only female perpetrators: being made to penetrate (79.2%), sexual coercion (83.6%), and unwanted sexual contact (53.1%). For non-contact unwanted sexual experiences, approximately half of male victims (49.0%) reported only male perpetrators and more than one-third (37.7%) reported only female perpetrators (data not shown). *


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Cletus said:


> What I have noticed here is that on this topic in these forums, there is a very different outcome for rape when a man is the victim. Several men have said that while the event was disturbing, it also wasn't sexually traumatic. Do men inherently understand that rape is a power dynamic, not a sexual issue? Or are they just harder to damage sexually?
> 
> I'm nearly certain that I would feel much the same way in the same situation. Rape (at least, heterosexual rape) seems to have a fundamentally different effect on men and women.


There are several things that have been brought up that are pertinent here…

There is a difference between rape and what is categorized as other sexual violence. Definitions are changing. CDC’s addition of “forced penetration” is interesting and probably a very good idea because it gives a clearer picture of things. More incidents are counted with the addition of that category.

Rape used to be defined as sexual penetration by a man of a woman. Someone commented that this was because in the olden days a woman who was raped lost her value as a human. Her value to her father and any other man became about zero. It was largely because women were property and because rape was often used to harm the male family member who basically owned the female.

With rape, there is usually a very real fear of being harmed. The victim fearing for their life is normally part of it. Rape is not about sex. It’s about the perp controlling, humiliating and hurting the victim or at least using a very real threat of harm.

The definition of rape is changing. Adding forced to penetrate brings to light a lot more victims of other sexual violence. These are probably good things. 

Now if we could just figure out how to teach the perp, male and female, that they cannot do this. .. and if we could actually prosecute, convict and lock up the perps very close to 100% of the time, we will have made some very good progress.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Holland said:


> Rape is considered as much a crime of violence not sex. Maybe that is some of the difference in the thinking about when it happens to a man by a woman. If a man is raped by another man/men most likely they would then consider the crime was violent.
> 
> Be careful RS with your language, there is a line here that you are close to crossing that may imply to some that rape is about sex, for women it is more about violence, being over powered, injured, beaten, degraded and possibly filmed. The effects of some of these attacks cause PTSD and ruin the woman's life forever, mentally and physically.


I think what RS is saying is that the big differences (in some of these cases, certainly not all) is that the woman assumes that the man is happy to comply, provided they're not being forced or otherwise threatened.

In his example of a woman he does not know simply jumping into bed with him, if the reverse were to happen, all hell would break loose. Other examples in this thread include men being woken up, literally, by a woman touching them, or in my case, extremely aggressive behaviour in which "no" does not mean "no". My experience went much farther than that, obviously, however the other examples are all things that would likely traumatise a woman and/or result in the man being heavily chastised, possibly arrested, and most definitely beaten to a pulp by somebody.

When a woman does this sort of thing (and I stress, non-violent and non-threatening), she is normally viewed as forward, precocious, horny, a strong-willed woman who knows what she wants, etc. At worst, she's labelled as slvtty. When a man does this sort of thing, he's a predator.

There is most definitely a double standard, but I'm actually okay with that, to be honest. I can't even begin to explain why there's a double standard, or at least a different expectation, but there is. Often, the outcomes are very very different.

To sit here and explain why a man being woken up by a woman he doesn't really know touching his penis isn't as traumatising or invasive to the man, as it would be to the woman if the reverse was happening, is impossible. To explain why a woman who won't take no for an answer, or who gets too grabby or too sexually forward is more of an annoyance to the man than anything else, is also impossible. It's just not as traumatising. It certainly CAN be, yes, but over all, not nearly as much as if it was man on woman.

As difficult as it is to admit, had I been single when I was 17, when the incident took place, I probably wouldn't have put up a fight at all, and it may very well have been an ego boost to me that this girl really wanted it and jumped me. Most of us men are built this way - sex is offered, we take it. And women know this, therefore they feel much more comfortable crossing into territories that we men are taught from an early age are forbidden or frowned upon.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I think that rape is complex, and especially so with male victims. It involves a combination of control, violence and sex. Rape of men (based on stories here) seems to in general be more about sex and less about violence than rape of women, but I think there is some mixture in many cases.

I don't see how the addition of sex in any way lessens the effect of violence in rape. 

I think far fewer men would be long term traumatized by forced sex than women would, but that idea leads to tricky ground. Is rape less severe if the victim is less traumatized? It seems to me that we need to consider the act itself criminal, not its effect on the victim. 


All this is complicated because there is a wide range of coerced sexual activity, from "knife and the throat", to someone consenting out of social pressure. Somewhere in that wide range of actions we need to declare that "this is rape". For male rape things are even fuzzier. Maybe we just need a wider range of terms for various forms of sex crimes.




Holland said:


> Rape is considered as much a crime of violence not sex. Maybe that is some of the difference in the thinking about when it happens to a man by a woman. If a man is raped by another man/men most likely they would then consider the crime was violent.
> 
> Be careful RS with your language, there is a line here that you are close to crossing that may imply to some that rape is about sex, for women it is more about violence, being over powered, injured, beaten, degraded and possibly filmed. The effects of some of these attacks cause PTSD and ruin the woman's life forever, mentally and physically.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Rape, female on male, defined in the way it has been used historically to mean penetration is very rare. 

Forced to penetrate and other types of what is considered sexual violence female on male is more common.

In the cases where there is no violence, credible threat, etc... I think that a lot of inroads to stop it can be made if we change the dialogue.

I've had a lot of men describe encounters that they had with women.. where the women were very forward and basically pushed themselves on the guy. Sometimes these were about the first few sexual encounters they had, often with a teen girl a year or so older than the guy. Not one of the men ever said it was rape, sexual violence, etc... Some were surprised, but they were like '"well it was thrown at me, why not" type of response.

We have been told that men will take any sex offended to them. Any man who turns down an offer for sex is crazy, and on and on. Perhaps we need to change the dialogue. We need to be teaching young girls and women that no, men do not like this. They do not want women to be forward, to keep pursuing after the man says no. An enthusiastic "yes" from men is required too.

And women need to be taught from an early age that using threats like "I'll tell everyone you did it, if you don't" is rape. It's a crime. It's not cute. It's not seductive... it's a crime.

We need to stop being told that men want sex, with anyone, any time any where... because some people have been told that so many times, it's so engrained in our society, that people believe it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

On the topic of older woman and young teen kid.

The dialogue on this has changed. If you want to see what the attitude was in 1971 was about a 15 year old having a sexual relationship with a 25 year old women was... watch the movie "Summer Of '42"

"During his summer vacation on Nantucket Island in 1942, a youth eagerly awaiting his first sexual encounter finds himself developing an innocent love for a young woman awaiting news on her soldier husband's fate in WWII."

The movie was a sweet story of a 15 year old awkward boy and a 25 year old woman. It presented this as a male coming to age, his first sexual encounter. At the time it was considered a beautiful love story, coming to age story.

Today the woman would be considered a rapist. There are still a lot of people who believe that this is not rape.. as long as the woman is beautiful. I remember seeing it when it came out. People loved the movie.. the 'love story', the lucky teen to have such a good first sexual encounter. The guys I knew at the time, to include my husband, thought the guy was lucky and sort of wished they were he.... at least for that one summer.

As a society was need to all get on one page. I'm not sure we are when it comes to this sort of thing.

If you have never seen the movie, it might be worth watching just to see how society looked at this just 44 years ago when I was 22.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWMxX5MGuHI&list=RDkWMxX5MGuHI#t=33

Summer of '42 (1971) - IMDb


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I think it helps for people to think about consent, and in particular consent may vary a lot with the individuals. 

Some men by default consent to a woman climbing into bed with them, for some this is an extremely attractive fantasy. Because of this some women may think that doing this does not require explicit consent. However some men do not consent to this. Since there is no way to know beforehand, women need to avoid climbing into be with men without explicit permission - even though some men would be consenting.

I believe that only a small percentage of women would consent to a strange man climbing in bed with them, so most people assume that explicit consent is required. (Yes some men will do this anyway, but I suspect most of them are aware that it is being done without consent).

The whole question of "assumed consent" is complicated. I think it does vary by situation: in a marriage there is assumed consent to some level of sexual interaction. Few people would consider a husband grabbing his wife from behind by surprise and kissing her on the neck to be assault - even though it would most certainly be assault if it were a stranger. Of course not all sexual activity has assumed consent in a marriage, and the limits depend on the specific individuals.

So the issue is whether or not assumed consent is different for men and women. I think that even though ON AVERAGE men may consent to a larger level sexual activity with strangers, that the same limits on assumed consent should be applied to men and women.

As an aside, I don't want to get too hung on on the definition of "rape". It is different (due to biology if nothing else) for men and women, so the terminology can get confusing, and I don't think is very important. I thinking in general of sexual activity with a non-consenting partner.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> I think it helps for people to think about consent, and in particular consent may vary a lot with the individuals.
> 
> Some men by default consent to a woman climbing into bed with them, for some this is an extremely attractive fantasy. Because of this some women may think that doing this does not require explicit consent. However some men do not consent to this. Since there is no way to know beforehand, women need to avoid climbing into be with men without explicit permission - even though some men would be consenting.
> ...


Well written. I have also had a partner with a who had a craving for sex several times a day. I would often be woken by her climbing on top and I was fine with that. Ironically, years later she apologised and I had to reassure her that there was absolutely no need - indeed I enjoyed it tremendously.


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## ExiledBayStater (Feb 16, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> I moved the thread..


Thanks


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Mr The Other said:


> Well written. I have also had a partner with a who had a craving for sex several times a day. I would often be woken by her climbing on top and I was fine with that. Ironically, years later she apologised and I had to reassure her that there was absolutely no need - indeed I enjoyed it tremendously.


I think that this is pretty normal in a relationship. But it's always wise to make sure that it with agreeable to both of you.


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

We also have to remember low libido men, women may be extra aggressive with them. These men, because of societal pressures, don't want to complain much for fear of being seen as less of a man. Some unscrupulous women play on that fear.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

So far the discussion has only been about women raping or doing sexual violence on men.

But what about when the perp is another man?

A friend of mine from high school told me (30 years after the fact) that during our high school graduation week, a man who was a mentor to a lot of the guys at our high school raped him.

I asked him what he did about it. He said nothing. He just got away from the guy and never went near him again. 

When one of my brothers was in 3rd grade a teenager in our neighborhood tried something on him. What my brother said was that the guy tried to do to him what men to do ladies. He'd never talk about it beyond that.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
We haven't discussed it here, but I think male on male rape is more commonly recognized than female on male rape. Its well understood that it is extremely common in US prisons - possibly representing the majority of all rapes in the US.

Since male on male rape often involves penetration and injury, and often very clearly lacks consent, I think it is closer to the model of male on female rape. 

Its certainly true that many men will not report same sex rape due to embarrassment, or feeling "at fault". similar I think to the reasons many women will not report being raped. 

It is not unusual for men to become aroused or even orgasm during rape which adds to the false thought that "well he liked it".

I can't off hand think of any significant ways that male on male rape is different from male on female rape, but I may be missing something.


Female on female rape also exists, but I think is relatively uncommon.






EleGirl said:


> So far the discussion has only been about women raping or doing sexual violence on men.
> 
> But what about when the perp is another man?
> 
> ...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> We haven't discussed it here, but I think male on male rape is more commonly recognized than female on male rape. Its well understood that it is extremely common in US prisons - possibly representing the majority of all rapes in the US.


Yes prison rape seems to be a large % of male rape. However I’m not sure it can be said that prison rape or male rape is the majority of rapes in the US.

When we look at the numbers (rape & attempted rape)

Prison rapes of men are thought to be about 200,000 a year.

Rapes of women are in about 2,000,000 a year. I don’t have numbers for female rape in prison.

Male rape (not prison) is about 10% of female rape… or 200,000 a year
So, male rape (prison + nonprison) is about 400,000 a year. 

Prison Rape Widely Ignored by Authorities - ABC News


richardsharpe said:


> Since male on male rape often involves penetration and injury, and often very clearly lacks consent, I think it is closer to the model of male on female rape.


I agree



richardsharpe said:


> Its certainly true that many men will not report same sex rape due to embarrassment, or feeling "at fault". Similar I think to the reasons many women will not report being raped.


Yep I agree. 

The first time I was raped, I did not report it because when I tried I was laughed at and told it was my fault. You learn very quickly to not say a word about rape.

The second was an attempted rape/murder. I was lucky because people came out of their homes because I was screaming. They called the police. The police came 2 or more hours later. Took my statement and never did anything. (I have no doubt that the guy has raped and killed many women since. I often wonder if the mass grave that was found near here were his victims.)

It’s not just shame, it’s that we know that rapists are seldom prosecuted. If prosecuted they are seldom convicted. If convicted they are usually right back on the street. I am sure that it is the same for men who are raped.



richardsharpe said:


> It is not unusual for men to become aroused or even orgasm during rape which adds to the false thought that "well he liked it".
> 
> I can't off hand think of any significant ways that male on male rape is different from male on female rape, but I may be missing something.


 I am absolutely sure that ending prison rape has a solution that is very different from ending non-prison rape. It would require a huge change in our prison and judicial systems. And it seems not enough people care enough about it to fix it… I am thoroughly disgusted that this goes on in our prisons. And a lot of people just laugh at it.

Excluding prison rape; while the basics of rape are the same regardless of the genders involved I think that there are difference. Acknowledging these differences can help in reducing the number of rapes. And in some ways the solutions might differ.

One thing that comes to mind is that there are a significant number of rapes in which ‘straight’ men rape homosexual men supposedly because homosexuals deserve it.. Some other hateful thought process. The way of tackling the reduction of this kind of rape might be very different from other types. 

I don’t know. I’m thinking aloud.

Female on male rape about 3% of male rapes. It’s very uncommon.

Other sexual violence against men: “Made to penetrate, sexual coercion, etc. , about 67% were female perps.

The issue with female on male incidents is that they are mostly a different type of sexual assault. I think that a large part of ending these types of assaults is to teach women that that men do not want sex all the time. I get the impression that a lot of women believe that men like being ‘seduced’ in this way. I think that a lot of this would end if we educate women about it.

Look at the statistics for male on fame male sexual assault and rape, the numbers are down by more than 50%. Why? Because we as a society have been educating men that the never take “no” seduction technique is not acceptable. Somehow, we’ve apparently forgotten to tell women this. I think that there are a lot of women who actually believe there is nothing wrong with it because we’ve been taught that men just want sex all the time, any way then can get it.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I actually think there is an easy way to end prison rape if people wanted to. Unlike the outside society, it is possibly to have completely surveillance everywhere in prison all the time, and all prisoners can be fitted with trackers. On any suspicion of rape (even if not reported by the victim) the tapes can be reviewed and the offenders given greatly extended sentences under harsher conditions, until they are in supermax completely isolated. Guards caught raping prisoners would could easily be convicted.

BTW - I have a relative who spent time in an american woman's prison. Rape is common there too. There is prisoner on prison rape - done she said basically out of boredom and generally viciousness. She was at one point given the choice of standing guard while another woman was raped, or being raped herself. Needless to say, snitching to the guards would result in much worse. 

The american prison system ( and probably many others), is a horror. 

Since the majority of rapes of all types are not reported, its very difficult to know the relative numbers, but I don't really care. All of the numbers are too high.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> I actually think there is an easy way to end prison rape if people wanted to. Unlike the outside society, it is possibly to have completely surveillance everywhere in prison all the time, and all prisoners can be fitted with trackers. On any suspicion of rape (even if not reported by the victim) the tapes can be reviewed and the offenders given greatly extended sentences under harsher conditions, until they are in supermax completely isolated. Guards caught raping prisoners would could easily be convicted.
> 
> BTW - I have a relative who spent time in an american woman's prison. Rape is common there too. There is prisoner on prison rape - done she said basically out of boredom and generally viciousness. She was at one point given the choice of standing guard while another woman was raped, or being raped herself. Needless to say, snitching to the guards would result in much worse.
> ...


I agree. The numbers we know about are too high. And they say that about half are never reported.

The one thing about the CDC study is that they did not use crime records. They asked people so they picked up a lot of the unreported rapes and sexual assaults.

It's horrible when you think that the numbers are way down from a decade or two ago.

An issue is that one rapist can have hundreds of victims. So the number of rapists is much lower than the number of people raped. For every rapist taken off the streets, we can eliminate a lot of future victims.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
rape convictions are difficult because there is often no evidence that meets the "beyond a reasonable doubt" requirement in US law. (a requirement that I very much want to keep).

Maybe there is a way in cases with multiple claims of assault where the existence of many claims can be combined in some well defined way to reduce the requirements of proof on each individual claim but maintain the overall legal protections.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> rape convictions are difficult because there is often no evidence that meets the "beyond a reasonable doubt" requirement in US law. (a requirement that I very much want to keep).
> 
> Maybe there is a way in cases with multiple claims of assault where the existence of many claims can be combined in some well defined way to reduce the requirements of proof on each individual claim but maintain the overall legal protections.


This is why there was a push for precincts to process all rape kits going back years.

In the past, a rape kit was only processed if they arrested a suspect and if it went to trail. 

Now that the backlog of rape kits are being processed, they are fining that many of the rapes were by the same man. So now they have a trail of proof.

you are right that it's hard to get a case against rapists. Even in cases where the woman has been beaten up, thrown out of cars, dropped out of trucks unconscious and beaten on the family yard.... the rapist is able to convince the police/prosecutors/juries she really wanted to be raped.. she just liked it rough. So the guy walks.

I'm pretty sure that a male rape victim would be treated the same way.. he just wanted to be beaten and raped.
.


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## lovelyblue (Oct 25, 2013)

Man on woman.
Woman on man.
Woman on woman
Man on man.
Adult on child.
Adult on someone under 16.
Human on animal.

Rape is wrong and should be punished.


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