# No Remorse



## BrokenMan (Nov 26, 2011)

I think.... sorry, I know.... my wife is a serial EA cheater. During our time together she has had at least four EA. I should have got out, but foolishly I thought she would change. Now she has taken the next step. I found out on Tuesday that she spent a weekend with a man and had a PA.

A brief back ground of our relationship. I found out about (what I presume) was her first EA just before we got married. She was showing me something in her inbox and I noticed A LOT of emails from a man. I asked her to show me some, which at first she wouldn't, but eventually she did, and the emails between her and him were of a sexual nature, and her wishing she was with him.
The next one was with another man off the internet. This one moved onto sexual pictures and phonecalls. The others were exactly the same. Each time she would break down and sob, saying that she wants to stay with me and the kids etc etc.

So maybe this is my fault? Maybe by not throwing her out I have indicated that her behaviour is acceptable?

About six weeks ago my wife said she wanted to get away for the weekend. Things hadn't been brilliant between us, and she said she needed a time out. We bought the train tickets (I paid!) and everything was sorted out. Needless to say, she had been arranging to meet this man and they spent all weekend having sex. She didn't spare a moments thought for our children and I.

That was last weekend. Whilst she was away I got some bad news about my work and as I couldn't get hold of her on the phone, I texted her, hoping for some comfort and a phonecall. All I got was a text saying "Time to look for another job".

I phoned her that evening saying that she was ignoring the kids, and that I thought she was up to something (and I gave her my reasons). She became very vocal, screaming that I never trust her and that she wants a divorce and that she'll keep the kids and throw me out. She swore that nothing was going on blah blah blah. When she got back she was evil incarnate. The things she said and did were so out of character. 

On Tuesday morning I was getting ready for work and heard her scrabbling away upstairs. I went up and she quickly shut her wardrobe and went downstairs. A jingle noise came from the cupboard, and lo-and-behold she had a second mobile phone. She had rapidly been switching it off, hence the noise. I switched it back on. There was only one name and number on it. I text the number from my phone, asking if it was such and such, and if they had spent the weekend in [the resort my wife was in]. The reply came back in the affirmative.

I confronted my wife and STILL she denied it. I said fine, I'll text her OM, and she screamed at me that yes she did spend the weekend having sex with that man. I am crushed. In fact, I have spent most of the years we have shared being crushed. She blames me of course. She has built up such a horrible image of me in her mind, and I assume that is how she justifies what she is doing. I now know why her friends and family give me a wide berth. The thing is, I haven't done anything. I genuinely haven't. Even her OM contacted me blaming me, saying that I am the worst type of A-hole! She had told him I am physically abusive. Why would she do this?

Anyway, I am so sorry for the rant. The reason for the title is that she shows no remorse. I haven't been able to sleep all week, and last night she even came downstairs telling me that I'll make myself ill. Make myself ill?!!! No love... it's you making me ill!

I pulled the computer out of the wall, and threw it out when I found out on Tuesday. Childish? Yes, but I wasn't thinking straight. Her latest outburst at me was "How come you can use the internet at work, but I'm not allowed on it?" I simply replied "How come you committed adultery?" Followed by "How come you use the internet purely as a sex hook up tool?"

She has put her wedding ring back on, believe it or not. She insists she will make our marriage work (!). I've heard all these promises before, but never actions. Actions speak volumes. We have four children by the way, and she plays the happy family card, knowing full well that I will give up my life for any of my kids.

Can this woman change? I'm not sure.

Anyway, that's the end of my rant. Sorry if it's jumbled, but I am getting by on less than two hours sleep per night.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

BrokenMan said:


> I think.... sorry, I know.... my wife is a serial EA cheater. During our time together she has had at least four EA. I should have got out, but foolishly I thought she would change. Now she has taken the next step. I found out on Tuesday that she spent a weekend with a man and had a PA.


So even before you married her, she cheated on you with OM1-OM4. Yes, sometimes love is blind and we foolishly think we can change a person. You've now learned the bitter truth: that we can't change people, they have to change themselves.



BrokenMan said:


> A brief back ground of our relationship. I found out about (what I presume) was her first EA just before we got married. She was showing me something in her inbox and I noticed A LOT of emails from a man. I asked her to show me some, which at first she wouldn't, but eventually she did, and the emails between her and him were of a sexual nature, and her wishing she was with him.


She was already cheating on you during your engagement, which you just found out about now. This shows she didn't marry you out of love, she just wanted the security of marriage. I would assume at this point, you were more financially secure than this scumbag OM that she was in lust with. This means your marriage was a lie from the very beginning. If this man was in the local area, NEVER assume that it was just an EA unless you have proof positive that it wasn't.



BrokenMan said:


> The next one was with another man off the internet. This one moved onto sexual pictures and phonecalls. The others were exactly the same. Each time she would break down and sob, saying that she wants to stay with me and the kids etc etc.


Typical cake eating behavior. She has absolutely no respect for you, your children, and her marriage. Like I said, she just wants the security of marriage while she goes out and plays with other men. She really has something broken inside of her that you cannot fix. 



BrokenMan said:


> So maybe this is my fault? Maybe by not throwing her out I have indicated that her behaviour is acceptable?


No, never ever take responsibility for her cheating. You may have been responsible for 50% of the state of the marriage, but she is responsible for 100% of the cheating. Cheating is a choice that she made.

Unfortunately, you did enable her behavior by not showing any consequences and sweeping it under the rug. This by far is the most common mistake BSs make when confronted by their spouses infidelity. This is borne out of fear of losing the children and the marriage, and many BSs will endure this out of fear for their children.



BrokenMan said:


> About six weeks ago my wife said she wanted to get away for the weekend. Things hadn't been brilliant between us, and she said she needed a time out. We bought the train tickets (I paid!) and everything was sorted out. Needless to say, she had been arranging to meet this man and they spent all weekend having sex. She didn't spare a moments thought for our children and I.
> 
> That was last weekend. Whilst she was away I got some bad news about my work and as I couldn't get hold of her on the phone, I texted her, hoping for some comfort and a phonecall. All I got was a text saying "Time to look for another job".


Unfortunately, because of your beta male personality, she convinced you to pay for her holiday out of town so she can bang a new OM. It's obvious she has no respect for you or the marriage at all. 



BrokenMan said:


> I phoned her that evening saying that she was ignoring the kids, and that I thought she was up to something (and I gave her my reasons). She became very vocal, screaming that I never trust her and that she wants a divorce and that she'll keep the kids and throw me out. She swore that nothing was going on blah blah blah. When she got back she was evil incarnate. The things she said and did were so out of character.


Typical WS behavior, it's called blame shifting. This is emotional abuse. And no, she cannot throw you out or make you leave your home. Don't believe a word that she says. This is an unrepentant, unremorseful behavior.



BrokenMan said:


> On Tuesday morning I was getting ready for work and heard her scrabbling away upstairs. I went up and she quickly shut her wardrobe and went downstairs. A jingle noise came from the cupboard, and lo-and-behold she had a second mobile phone. She had rapidly been switching it off, hence the noise. I switched it back on. There was only one name and number on it. I text the number from my phone, asking if it was such and such, and if they had spent the weekend in [the resort my wife was in]. The reply came back in the affirmative.


And now you find out she has a secret affair phone, one of the main tools used in affairs nowadays. I hope you kept it or at the very minimum, kept some of the evidence. I also hope that you didn't give it back to her.



BrokenMan said:


> I confronted my wife and STILL she denied it. I said fine, I'll text her OM, and she screamed at me that yes she did spend the weekend having sex with that man. I am crushed. In fact, I have spent most of the years we have shared being crushed.


You've been emotionally abused and beat down to such a level that you've been accepting this abuse. It's time to start manning up. Get the book "No More Mr Nice Guy". Unfortunately, nice guys like you get abused by serial cheaters like your WS. She may have some BPD traits from what you describe, which is very similar to yours, and see if your wife's personality closely matches his WWs. Here's the link:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/29373-distressed.html



BrokenMan said:


> She blames me of course. She has built up such a horrible image of me in her mind, and I assume that is how she justifies what she is doing.


Typical WS actions: The blame shifting and the re-writing of the marital history. The truth is she was damn lucky that a man married her being the tramp that she is.



BrokenMan said:


> I now know why her friends and family give me a wide berth. The thing is, I haven't done anything. I genuinely haven't. Even her OM contacted me blaming me, saying that I am the worst type of A-hole! She had told him I am physically abusive. Why would she do this?


Like many WWs, she has demonized you to friends and family. A great majority of cheating women will demonize their betrayed husband as emotionally, or physically abusive, or both. Do you see the utter contempt and disrespect for you?



BrokenMan said:


> Anyway, I am so sorry for the rant. The reason for the title is that she shows no remorse. I haven't been able to sleep all week, and last night she even came downstairs telling me that I'll make myself ill. Make myself ill?!!! No love... it's you making me ill!


That's putting it very mildly. No, she has absolutely no remorse or empathy for you.



BrokenMan said:


> I pulled the computer out of the wall, and threw it out when I found out on Tuesday. Childish? Yes, but I wasn't thinking straight. Her latest outburst at me was "How come you can use the internet at work, but I'm not allowed on it?" I simply replied "How come you committed adultery?" Followed by "How come you use the internet purely as a sex hook up tool?"


Not exactly the way to do it, but you did the right thing, which is cutting off her internet access. You are on the first step into not enabling her cheating. However, if you can, you should try to retrieve information from that computer and find out as much information about the affair and OM as much as possible. Including info on whether OM is married or committed and contact information about his spouse or GF. This is vital information that you may need in a divorce/child custody proceedings. Do you live in a at fault or no fault state? 



BrokenMan said:


> She has put her wedding ring back on, believe it or not. She insists she will make our marriage work (!). I've heard all these promises before, but never actions. Actions speak volumes. We have four children by the way, and she plays the happy family card, knowing full well that I will give up my life for any of my kids.


Now this is the honeymoon period in a typical emotional/physical abuse cycle. Wash, rinse, repeat. Do not fall for it. You need to end this cycle of abuse. 



BrokenMan said:


> Can this woman change? I'm not sure.


Not by the way you describe her. She's an unrepentant, unremorseful cheater, who not only has no respect for you, the children or the marriage, but who has utter contempt for you. You are ONLY a paycheck and baby sitter to her, nothing more. She sees you as a lowly doormat, and shows some very strong BPD traits. Has she ever been psychologically evaluated? 

This is someone you cannot fix as you've probably suspected by now. She would need years of intensive therapy. You cannot wait around for this. By all indications, this marriage is irretrievably broken. All she will do is continue to abuse you as long as you let her.



BrokenMan said:


> Anyway, that's the end of my rant. Sorry if it's jumbled, but I am getting by on less than two hours sleep per night.


Then I suggest you got to a doctor and get prescribed medication for anxiety and stress related insomnia. 

Besides the information on the OM, there is no need for further investigation. You have to man up for your sake and the sake of your children. It's time to show her consquences for her actions. Remember, she CANNOT throw you out or make you leave. You need to really protect yourself now. Buy a Voice Activated Recorder (VAR) and have it on you at all times that you are in contact with her so she cannot make make false allegations of physical abuse to the police about you.

Start separating your finances and stop financing her cheating. With four young children, am I right in guessing that she's a stay at home mom (SAHM)? If so, then I'm correct in guessing that you are only a paycheck to her.

You must lawyer up and start divorce proceedings. Do the hard 180. If you need links to the 180, just ask. You need to tell HER to leave if possible, and NOT with the children. Remember, she is the cheater who has destroyed this marriage. She doesn't deserve to have custody of the children. If she's not working, then you can get your lawyer to get a temporary custody order from a judge. Cite the infidelity as grounds and provide the proof if you can, but consult your lawyer about this. It's high time you take your life back.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

The first item I notice is your wife cheats because she can that's says even though you have found out about the affairs she has felt no consequences as you have not enforced the marriage boundaries . Read your own posts , this is what I read , a man who is hurting , a man who has little understanding of how to deal with a wayward wife , a man who is enabling his wife's affair by not standing up to her and her adultery .

Why are you asking a question about remorse ? That is not the question , the question is are you prepared to spend a large portion of your life with a serial cheater ? and then when she does finally dump you for another man what then?

Man up , you expose her adultery to her family and to your children so they understand why there are these issues in the house . You assume unless your wife is going to have a radical change in behaviour that you are divorcing , and don't whine here that you don't want to divorce, your wife is already on the way out and test riding different men in preparation for that move .

Move all monies to an account you control 
You prepare yourself and your children for a life without her .
Send her for an STD test and do not have sex with her until you know she is clean and not pregIant
Do a paternaty test on your children
Do not accept any of the blame for her adultery
Run the 180 below

WARNING: The 180 is NOT a manipulation tool to make your spouse end his/her affair and commit to do the work of marital recovery, IT IS an emotional empowerment tool to help you become emotionally strong so that you can move on with your life - with or without your spouse. No one wants to be perceived as pathetic. 180 makes you look strong. Strong is attractive.

1. Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Don't point out "good points" in marriage.
4. Don't follow her/him around the house.
5. Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.
6. Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS.
7. Don't ask for reassurances.
8. Don't buy or give gifts.
9. Don't schedule dates together.
10. Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.
11. Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!
12. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.
13. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!
14. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!
15. If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.
16. Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them!
17. Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.
18. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.
19. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!
20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!
21. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
22. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!
23. Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!
24. Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.
25. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.
26. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.
27. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.
28. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.
29. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!
30. Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.
31. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"
32. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.
33. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW.

Work on yourself , make yourself a better person that is attractive to other woman. Your wife can decide to be that woman or you can drop her off at the curb side .


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BrokenMan (Nov 26, 2011)

I know and understand what you are saying. It just breaks my heart. For all she has done, I still love this woman. My youngest child is only four, and I can't imagine not being around him everyday, and I don't want my kids to grow up with a succession of different dads as a result of her behaviour.

She still keeps everything a secret, and claims she is not in contact with the other man, but will not prove it. I'm not going to continue asking. I understand this is a losing battle.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Did you post the same on another forum website? One that went on and on and you ignored all advice? The story is so similar.


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## BrokenMan (Nov 26, 2011)

No, I haven't posted on another forum like this. I am part of a community forum that shares life experiences, and I posted on there very recently about the two weeks leading up to her weekend. [During the time leading up to her weekend away, my wife was very cold and distant, and kept mentioning divorce, I tried everything I could think of. The blog was under the title "I can't make you love me]. The posts were a blog about how much I was trying, and about the progress (or lack of it) made. I also posted a poem.
Are you part of that community? It's not really an advice type place, and I certainly haven't posted about what she has done.
So in answer to your question, no.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

BrokenMan said:


> I know and understand what you are saying. It just breaks my heart. For all she has done, I still love this woman.


No, you're in love with a woman that *NEVER existed*. This unremorseful tramp is who she truly is. You are in love with an illusion of what you imagined she should be. You're truly in denial. 



BrokenMan said:


> My youngest child is only four, and I can't imagine not being around him everyday, and I don't want my kids to grow up with a succession of different dads as a result of her behaviour.


Sorry for the 2x4, but please stop rationalizing your fear and hiding behind your children. Even when divorced, you can still be the positive influence in their lives and they will respect you as a good, strong father. Or you can lay down and accept your fate as a cuckold and live in misery the rest of your life while your children lose respect for you and think this is how a marriage is supposed to be. You're doing your children NO FAVORS by remaining in this type of marriage, in fact, you're hurting them. They may eventually find partners just like your tramp of a wife, and accept similar suffering because their dad did. Unfortunately, you're setting a bad example for them by your behavior.



BrokenMan said:


> She still keeps everything a secret, and claims she is not in contact with the other man, but will not prove it. I'm not going to continue asking. I understand this is a losing battle.


Of course she is because she's still cheating and will never stop because you continue to enable her.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

BrokenMan said:


> No, I haven't posted on another forum like this. I am part of a community forum that shares life experiences, and I posted on there very recently about the two weeks leading up to her weekend. [During the time leading up to her weekend away, my wife was very cold and distant, and kept mentioning divorce, I tried everything I could think of. The blog was under the title "I can't make you love me]. The posts were a blog about how much I was trying, and about the progress (or lack of it) made. I also posted a poem.
> Are you part of that community? It's not really an advice type place, and I certainly haven't posted about what she has done.
> So in answer to your question, no.


I stand corrected. 

You have outstanding people here who are compassionate and very helpful.


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## BrokenMan (Nov 26, 2011)

You are right. I know you are. Everything that is said is right.

A lot of the advice on this forum is about working from a position of strength, not being the victim. The 180 is a guide to give the impression of strength and confidence. Not giving away too much and not coming across as needy or pathetic.

But I really really want her to understand the pain I am feeling. There is a post on here about ten questions for a future cheater. I'd love her to read it, to realise what she's done.

The most infuriating part is that she really seems oblivious to all she has done. Why? I have times when I am so furious and filled with anger that all I want to do is go somewhere and smash things. Then at other times I lose all motivation and I am filled with despair.

I have already contacted our local housing authority for advice. I did that on Tuesday, and I also visited my local bank to try to open an account. My work was really good about it. They could see I was upset and let me take the afternoon off, even though things aren't great at the company I work for.

I confided in my brother, and I have his full support for whatever I choose.

So as you can see, I haven't just sat back, I have made a start; an attempt to take control. My WW knows I've done some of this, and claims it is just a "knee jerk" reaction. She is just so confident in herself. I just need to summon up the final strength to do it. That is where I falter.

If my work goes under, how can I afford to house and care for my children? It feels like everything is designed to keep me tied here.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

" My WW knows I've done some of this"

At this point it is none of your wifes business. Out her four affairs to her family. Find out who the other man is and if he is married out him to his wife/girlfriend.

180 180 180 180

Go to Mens Clubhouse section and read man up threads

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html

Being a doormat for your wife is doing unfathomable damage to your children. See doctor,get meds, stand up straight, man up. You haven't shown her anything to respect you for at this point but that can change if you just overcome your fear. Straighten up for your childrens sake.

Your love isn't supposed to kill you, don't let it.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

BrokenMan said:


> A lot of the advice on this forum is about working from a position of strength, not being the victim. The 180 is a guide to give the impression of strength and confidence. Not giving away too much and not coming across as needy or pathetic.


Please don't make the mistake many newly betrayed do and misinterpret the purpose of the 180. The 180 not a tool to make you appear strong or manipulate the WS. It's a tool for self empowerment, that helps you detach and gives you the strength to move on, with or without her. It's for you to help you minimize and help get rid of your codependency issues.



BrokenMan said:


> But I really really want her to understand the pain I am feeling. There is a post on here about ten questions for a future cheater. I'd love her to read it, to realise what she's done.
> 
> The most infuriating part is that she really seems oblivious to all she has done. Why? I have times when I am so furious and filled with anger that all I want to do is go somewhere and smash things. Then at other times I lose all motivation and I am filled with despair.


You're never going to get her to feel your pain, because she has a total lack of empathy for you. She seems to have strong BPD traits, but only a trained psychiatrist can make that diagnosis, so this is only a guess on my part. I hope you read Berilo's thread on that. It wouldn't matter if you let her read those questions, she's deep in the fog and she would ignore it anyway. Besides, even though this is on the internet, most unrepentant rare go to these forums because they can't face the fact of what they've done. Keep this as your safe place.

I know exactly how you're feeling about being furious one day and despairing the next. This is known as the emotional roller coaster, and it's a rough ride in the beginning. That's why the 180 is so helpful, it lets you learn to be self empowered. The emotional roller is going to last a while.



BrokenMan said:


> So as you can see, I haven't just sat back, I have made a start; an attempt to take control. My WW knows I've done some of this, and claims it is just a "knee jerk" reaction. She is just so confident in herself. I just need to summon up the final strength to do it. That is where I falter.


She's so confident because she hasn't actually had to face any consequences yet. 



BrokenMan said:


> If my work goes under, how can I afford to house and care for my children? It feels like everything is designed to keep me tied here.


Is your company in financial trouble?


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

I'm not so sure she sounds BPD. If she is though, I feel for you. She will most likely never get the help she needs as many BPD'ers do not have the ego strength to do so. Your situation is horrible and you have my sympathies.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Your wife doesn't think you'll do anything, and that she is fully free to do whatever she wants - why? Because you've not done anything in the past.

She's clearly an accomplished cheater - which means she's very experienced at this. The fact that she set up the sex weekend and didn't let the cat out of the bad at all, and she had a second phone etc. Shows this isn't someone fumbling around doing this for the first time.

This is only the first time you've fully caught her.

So bad one history she thinks what she did is not only OK, but something you'll just wimp out and let her get away with.

She may be right - you're already going the "I love her so much route" 

Look at how coldly she set this whole thing up. You want to know why things have been at a low point recently - easy she's been in an affair with the OM. You don't think he just appeared at the resort out of thin air do you? They've been carrying on for a while, the resort was just a fun sex fest for them ON YOUR DIME.

You say you don't want to divorce her and have a series of men going through your kids lives - well you already do. You've got them going through your wife, and she has been bringing them emotionally, and now physically into your marriage. 

Your living in a open marriage,except you don't get any, and you are paying the bills for the other men to have your wife.

You've got a good start by cutting off any and all money to her. You should add up the cost of the sex holiday and ask the OM to at least pay for it and the ***** he used for the weekend.

You should also be carrying a VAR on you now. Your cheating wife has been telling people you are abusing her, it will likely get said by her that you are abusing the kids too. The VAR is to protect you against her lies.

Next get her gone. She's a serial cheater who has absolutely no respect for your marriage, or love for you. A woman who respects and loves a man would never go for a planned sex weekend, and then further humiliate him by making him pay for it too.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

ALso,

get into her email and that other phone and get copies of everything she has sent and receives. SHe's an experienced cheater so,she'll likely be covering her tracks very well. Look for a second email account as well.

Next, find the OM and expose this affair. He is very likely married or they would have met up at his place and not a resort for the weekend. Take him out of her support network by making his life at home difficult.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I would get a full panel test on STDs. You never know. 

Sorry you are going through this ....especially during the holidays.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Yes, get STD tested. They mostly likely didn't use any protection.

So don't sleep with her without using protection yourself - until she has also been tested and shown you the paper with the results.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Your wife has no remorse. That says it all. She will contnue with this.
You have uncovered 4 affairs. The vast majority of affairs go undetected. So, if you found 4, you know the tip of the iceberg.
Your wife is doung just about everything according to the WW script, including tha allegations of abuse. This is very common.
You should see a lawyer asap.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

BrokenMan said:


> A lot of the advice on this forum is about working from a position of strength, not being the victim. The 180 is a guide to give the impression of strength and confidence. Not giving away too much and not coming across as needy or pathetic.



You're mistaken about the 180. It is not about giving an impression.

It is, rather, about strengthening you mentally to handle the emotional turmoil that coming at you. The 180 is to protect yourself and to allow you to grow and move on if need be.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Does your wife work? If not, stop funding and enabling her affairs.

If she works, make sure she contributes equally to the household bills and children's expenses. 

Dont put any of your income into joint bank account if you have one. Cancel all joint credit cards.

Get yourself a voice-activated recorder (VAR) and use it when you are around her to protect yourself against abuse allegations. Get another one or two and plant them in the house and one in her car under the seat.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

aug said:


> You're mistaken about the 180. It is not about giving an impression.
> 
> It is, rather, about strengthening you mentally to handle the emotional turmoil that coming at you. The 180 is to protect yourself and to allow you to grow and move on if need be.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

EXACTLY!

Besides emotionally strengthening you to eventually move on, the 180 will also help you to emotionally detach from her.

As lordmayhem correctly pointed out, *you are in love with a woman that never existed.*

This may not be her first PA, there is the possibility that your children may not be biologically yours. I would recommend that you think about having paternity tests done on each one of them. Hopefully they'll turn out to be yours but if they are not, you may be able to use this information to seek a favorable custody arrangement and smear her reputation to her family and friends.

I would also recommend that you go to *Dads divorce* as well as seek a divorce attorney specializing in helping fathers rights.

Good luck.


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## Onedery (Sep 22, 2011)

Broken Man, how long is that string your cheating spouse has you dangling from? If your feet will reach the ground, see if it will let you hire a lawyer.


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

LordMayhem, you said "No, you're in love with a woman that NEVER existed. This unremorseful tramp is who she truly is. You are in love with an illusion of what you imagined she should be. You're truly in denial." and while I know these words were not directly directed at me, I froze dead in my tracks when I read them, and I stared at these words. This was me. This was what I did. I created an illusion of who I wanted to be in love with, and now the past few days, all the evils have been coming out of the walls at me, haunting me. I've spent two days now crying as all the rug sweeping I did is coming back out torment me (I even posted a venting thread here last night I was so consumed) 
To brokenman, I get where you're coming from. My ex has no remorse and I was also abused with his multiple affairs and the emotional abuse and mental abuse. It was awful. You will find so much good advice here. Follow it. It will help you. It has me.


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## BrokenMan (Nov 26, 2011)

Thanks to all of the replys.

A quick point to a couple of posts. The 180 IS about giving the impression of strength and happiness, at least it is at this very early stage. Do you think I feel happy or confident? The idea of what my children are about to go through does not make me feel happy. The shame of divorce does not make me happy. The heart breaking fact that the woman I love(d) has absolutely no respect for me and our children does not make me happy. Yet I put on this façade.

That being said, I am following the 180 to the letter, and it does appear to be working. There has been a "genuine" show of emotion from her, with "genuine" tears. Do not worry, I haven't let it weaken my resolve and I am not fooled. She is a very able liar; not just to me but to everyone around her.

The voice activated recorder is a good idea, and makes a lot of sense.

Thanks again to everyone. I am sorry for ranting. I know that in time the 180 will help me and will make me stronger. The idea that I am not at fault really helps. Marriage problems = 50/50. Her affair = 100% her fault.

And through reading other peoples' posts I no longer blame her OM. He was not the person stood next to me at the altar making life long vows. He was a man who had a woman throw herself at him, and he took the opportunity. He made me no promises to me. Forgiving him has helped a lot. I also don't know for sure how much she told him.


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## calif_hope (Feb 25, 2011)

Brokenman....

The SHAME of divorce will fall on her, not on you!

Stay strong, eat right, lay off booze, sleep as best you can. I would keep a VAR on you, this is to protect you when she rants/raves at you - posible threats against you (false accusations) are likely when she realizes that she is no longer in control......one of the effects of an effective 180.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Be sure to get indvidual counseling to help you through this. Also, other posters say the meds you can get from an MD are life savers so don't hesitate.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Brokenman. You may experience periods of 'falling off the wagon' as far as the 180 and 'Just Let Them Go' but don't worry because it happens to most of us. Just pick yourself up and start again knowing that you are doing the right thing for you. Follow the advice of the previous posters with regards to taking care of yourself for that is very important in your healing and personal recovery.

Don't be a stranger, keep in touch.


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## BrokenMan (Nov 26, 2011)

Even now my wife continues to amaze me, and not in a good way!

She has now tried the sobbing routine, saying it was a huge mistake, wanting to make a go of things. I have stuck to the 180, and I have to admit it has been the hardest thing ever. I don't like watching her do this.

After I didn't drop everything to comfort her, she then started feeling sorry for herself. This was followed by more tears. All of this has made for a stressful few days. However, I know she's acting.

How do I know?

Well... she said it was a huge mistake and that he meant nothing and that she has had time to think about everything she will lose. I listened, didn't argue or interrupt. I wasn't heartless or cold, but I didn't try to comfort her either. I just said that words are meaningless from her, as she has lied to everyone that means anything to her. Now's the time for actions. She sobbed and nodded and promised the world. I just listened.

Yesterday evening I told asked her to get me her "secret" phone. I asked where she got it from, and she said it was a gift from him. There was only one contact, OM, and I said I am going to take his number etc, then delete it from the phone. I did as I said, and requested she send him an NC text from hers. She said we should just leave it. I explained why it was important that she does it, and she said "I'll delete his numbers." I said send an NC first, but she deleted them straight away.

I didn't shout or rant, or show emotion about it. We sat in silence for a bit, and I could see her facing getting more and more angry. She then blurted out how annoyed she was that I couldn't just let it go. She shouted at me that it's over between them, she's deleted his number, and why I should have his contact details.

I calmly told her that she's got his number written down elsewhere. She snorted that she hasn't. I told her that was a lie. I then explained that I am going to contact her OM wife and inform her of what's been going on. It's not fair that my WW takes all the blame, and her AP gets away with it. I also told her not to protect her OM.

Maybe I am being too hard? I don't know. But I think last night shows that she can (and is) still lying, and that her OM means something to her.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

You are doing great BM. She senses a new self respect in you. And she is afraid, she can no longer manipulate. The more respect you have for yourself the better you will be able to see her for what she is in the real light. Stay strong.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

You did great EXCEPT for the part of telling her that you were going to expose the affair to the OMW. You should never, ever tell her that you will do that. She will protect her OM by warning him that you are about to tell his wife. OM will then tell his own wife that some crazy man who is jealous or out to destroy him and their marriage is going to try to call, and he'll tell her not to take your calls or attempts to contact her. Of course, being her husband, she will probably believe him.

But its too late now to take that back. Expose the affair to the OMW as soon as possible. Like yesterday. Be sure you tell her that you have the evidence and can provide it at any time.

And start your divorce proceedings if you can afford it, ASAP.


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

Your W is a callous person with no conscience. Because you have rugswept the past As, she thinks she can worm her way out of this again just like with all the previous times. You should break the pattern this time, once and for all. 

If she thinks you will never leave her regardless, then she will never take any threat from you seriously. Don't yield an inch this time. 

Exposure to OMW is very basic, and I advise you to expose this to your family and inlaws as well. NC letter is a must. And, also demand timeline to write down all the details of A. If you can afford, demand polygraph as well.

If you still see any resistance from her, consult with lawyer and let her know you are serious to file for D.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

BrokenMan said:


> Maybe I am being too hard? I don't know. But I think last night shows that she can (and is) still lying, and that her OM means something to her.


Too hard? Quite the contrary you need to be harder with her by telling her in an *icy cold, emotionless and calm fashion* to leave the house. If she refuses, tell her you will provide the evidence to everybody that knows the two of you so they will know type of wh0re she is (most women are terrified of being labeled one, even when some really are). Ask her 'What shall it be?'. Hardball my friend, that is the only way to deal with an unremorseful cheating spouse. Once she leaves the home with her things, go to an attorney and file for divorce and request temporary custody of the kids.

*HARDBALL ALL THE WAY!!!*


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You are doing great.

The one mistake you made is telling her/warning her you were going to do something. Instead you shoud first do it, then either inform her, or keep silent about it.

Talking before hand warns her, but it also tells her that you think that she has a need to be informed. She doesnt have a right or a need.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BrokenMan (Nov 26, 2011)

Well, get this. According to my WW I am a bully. I asked her for access to her online account to see if she was still in contact with OM, and she said no. She said I am uncaring and a bully. She also said "I know you don't believe me, but that's down to you." I couldn't believe it. I told her that my not trusting her is a result of her, not me!

Then the old "I can't believe you're not over this" line came out. She's trying to sweep it under the rug. However, I do not argue or shout or moan, I just let her say her piece, then I carry on.

The thing is, she acts so nice, and says all the right things and expects me to just swoon and fall into her arms. When that doesn't happen, she once again becomes hard and cold and calculated. She said she will be getting HER solicitor involved last night. I told her that was probably a good idea. I'm not going to beg or plead with this woman.

So that's it in a nutshell. This woman has tried to give the impression of remorse, and because I didn't buy into it, she completely turned on me, again!

I'll tell you one thing, sleeping on the floor is not fun! Ha ha ha.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Are you sure its done? She's acting like she's in the drivers seat.


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## BrokenMan (Nov 26, 2011)

Hey Shaggy. Drivers seat how?

I asked her for her online details, she said no. It confirms that she is pretending to be remorseful, and cements my resolve. You see, I still love this woman, and whilst the 180 is working, I can't just switch those feelings off.

If she keeps acting the way she does, it just makes me stronger. I don't argue (as per 180), I don't plead with her (as per 180), and it is she who now keeps texting me, trying to phone me, trying to be nice. Everything she does is exactly as predicted on this forum.

Whether or not she is trying to take charge, her new actions do not back it up, where-as my actions do. I won't kowtow to her any more and I am fully prepared to do what is necessary to protect myself and my children, financially and emotionally.

One thing I am struggling with is the sadness. I am gutted that it has come to this battle of wills. I put everything into my relationship with this woman, and it has been reduced to this. Sometimes I find myself just staring blankly at things, whilst my mind wanders to old memories, or painful new ones.

Anyway, I'll keep posting on here with new developments. Thanks to everyone for their support. It really is helping.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

have you seen an attorney yet?

if not I suggest you do

get the initial paperwork from one and put it in front of her then state the following-
"You are absolutely right that I cannot control you, however that also means that I do not have to stand by you when you take such actions and introduce another man into our marriage. If I am to stay married to you then you need to show me you are willing to help me heal from this and help me trust you again. That means you are to write a no contact letter, be completely transparent and allow me access to all of your accounts and phones, and start to show me you have remorse beyond just words. If you cannot do this then thank you for the good years we had together and I wish you the best with your new partner and please sign these documents so we can start our new lives."


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Perhaps the next time you want to consider calmly conveying the following to her:



> *"You act as though your betrayal was a trivial thing, and not worth loosing any sleep over. How would you feel if I had been the betrayer and treating you the same way you're treating me right now. Do you have no conscience?*


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

It's very good what you are doing, but her calling you a bully, being nice then nasty, and refusing to be transparent show she still sees herself as being the one on charge of the rules of the relationship. She also continues to refuse to be transparent when if she saw you as someone to respect and desire, woud be bending over backwards to make you happy, and to earn ack the privilege of beng with you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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