# False Advertising??? Hubby THEN and NOW...



## savannah (Apr 4, 2008)

When I first met my husband, clearly he was the apple of my eye! I thought he was so different from all the other guys I have met... We were in College and the excitement of finding THE RIGHT GUY was intoxicating, I though HE WAS IT! 

We would talk for hours,have fun, TALK, share our dreams... simply IN LOVE with being with each other!

Soon after we got married after 4 years dating... Kids came... All of a sudden I do not recognize who this man is with me!

He is moody, rude, unaffectionate, jealous, controlling, disconnected, inconsiderate of a man! 

This would NOT be the man I would have even spent a minute of my time with had he shown signs of being this way. I feel cheated out of who I thought I was marrying... and now, I feel lost and regret is settling in more every day...

Had I picked the wrong man? Would I have been better off with someone else? Why didn't I see this coming? Why was I so quick to see the good and didn't take my time to really KNOW who I was dealing with? Was the change something that happens to everyone after marriage??

I am left confused and really very dissapointed... looking over to see if there was suppose to be someone out there instead of him?? And now it is too late to find THE person who would make me feel happy... FALSE ADVERTISING... !


----------



## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

Are you meeting his emotional needs? Or we're you before this change? Is there something he's not getting anymore now that the kids are here? Sex, time, affection, etc? 
I'm not trying to blame you just trying to find the root cause. 
How is he as a father? How is he with other people? Does he act that way with other people or just you? 
How is his health? When was his last check up? 
Sorry so many questions, I have experience with this with my ex but need to know more before I can really give advice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

He sounds unhappy, too, so you need to get to the root of what is bothering him. I agree with diawli, you need to figure out what his love language is. 

How is your sex life? Is there financial stress? Does he hate his job?

If you can zero in on what is bothering him, you have a chance to help him address it and re-connect as a couple.


----------



## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

So sorry you are in this situation 

I think most of us are capable of being happy, positive, and reflective of the good things in life. We are also capable of being the opposite. And we swing from one to other throughout life.

If he WAS at one time capable of being the man you wanted to be with, I would say he still is that man. He's just lost sight of it, for any number of reasons.


----------



## savannah (Apr 4, 2008)

diwali123 said:


> Are you meeting his emotional needs? Or we're you before this change? Is there something he's not getting anymore now that the kids are here? Sex, time, affection, etc?
> I'm not trying to blame you just trying to find the root cause.
> How is he as a father? How is he with other people? Does he act that way with other people or just you?
> How is his health? When was his last check up?
> ...


I've been suspecting for years he had BPD- or something like it... I don't know for sure because he wont see a doctor. We have gone through counselling to "help" the relationship, but it was not very good, since he hates being confronted with anything...

We've been together 20 years in total, and STILL he has never shown how he "used to be" for many years.. from time to time he CAN be pleasant.I imagine its when he's not totally having a BPD moment?

Otherwise.. he is very to himself... kids are so used to him this way now, its awful and a shame for him to miss out on their everyday lives because he is always so miserable and does not let anyone in...


----------



## savannah (Apr 4, 2008)

deejov said:


> So sorry you are in this situation
> 
> I think most of us are capable of being happy, positive, and reflective of the good things in life. We are also capable of being the opposite. And we swing from one to other throughout life.
> 
> If he WAS at one time capable of being the man you wanted to be with, I would say he still is that man. He's just lost sight of it, for any number of reasons.


I imagine that life does change ALL THE TIME for everyone... I feel bad that I think this way, but I really do.

I feel regret now - Thinking I did not really choose the right man... its disturbing because its been so many years and why and I just now realizing this?


----------



## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

If he does have BPD, he is going to have to make a huge effort to deal with it.

PM Pidge and Uptown. They have extensive experience with BPD. Pidge learned to deal with it, and Uptown's wife never overcame it.


----------



## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

I did not realise he has BPD behaviors, and for that long.
That makes it bittersweet. More painful to know that he was capable of being a good partner. 
I can't really offer much to say for BPD, other than to say I hear ya and there is some wisdom in controlling what you can, YOU. And finding your own way to happiness and peace. 

It's okay to kinda even mourn it in a way. You are feeling differently about it now, regret at the time lost or how your kids are coping with it.


----------



## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Do you put your children first, leaving no time or attention for him?


----------



## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

I didn't want to say it but my ex I'm convinced has BPD. Just like you we met when we were young. He was still in college, I was right out of it. We had a great relationship. 
It is so common for BPDs to get worse after they start to take on adult responsibilities. So starting working, getting married, having a child...each thing sends them further and further into BPD. 
One site that helped me a lot was BPD central. You'll just know when you do the reading whether it applies or not. I thought it was absolutely eerie. 
I also got the Stop Walking on Eggshells book. I tried to use a lot of the techniques, but in the end my ex wasn't willing or able to work on the marriage. 
It's a long story. If you want to PM me you can. 
However it could be a thyroid disorder, depression, bipolar disorder or something physical. If he wants to stay in the marriage he needs to get himself checked out. 
It wasn't until I asked him to leave that he went to a doctor. He has a severe thyroid problem and it was out of control. 
He started counseling too and promised me all kinda of things but when we got back together he was back to his usual petulant, sulking, angry, drama causing, blaming self in his own world ignoring me and not wanting to do things together. 
I'm sorry you have to deal with this. You didn't see it earlier because he was putting on a show and he had no adult responsibilities. It's not your fault.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## savannah (Apr 4, 2008)

lovesherman said:


> He sounds unhappy, too, so you need to get to the root of what is bothering him. I agree with diawli, you need to figure out what his love language is.
> 
> How is your sex life? Is there financial stress? Does he hate his job?
> 
> If you can zero in on what is bothering him, you have a chance to help him address it and re-connect as a couple.


Sexlife: so-so only when he is not in his "bad moods"

Financial Stress: He is always stressed. not because we are in debt . its just daily stress of having bills, which he exagerrates to be more an issue.. they are hte same bills every month, no more no less... why stress? I don't know!

Job: Job is great, he just likes to complain about going to it ALL THE TIME... even when I tell him he should appreciate it , so many people are out of jobs, it would be worse that way right??

I dont get it really! So much stress where there shouldn't be


----------



## savannah (Apr 4, 2008)

that_girl said:


> Do you put your children first, leaving no time or attention for him?


No, I equally spread my time for everyone in the family.. difficult to do but I try. 

Attention? When I do give him, he's always miserable anyway so at this point, I've almost given up pursuing to coax him out of his rut...


----------



## savannah (Apr 4, 2008)

diwali123 said:


> I didn't want to say it but my ex I'm convinced has BPD. Just like you we met when we were young. He was still in college, I was right out of it. We had a great relationship.
> It is so common for BPDs to get worse after they start to take on adult responsibilities. So starting working, getting married, having a child...each thing sends them further and further into BPD.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Exactly!!!!
The more he has on his plate to "deal with" the worse he gets.. it's like he can mutli-task in his brain... 
He can only function if things are dealt with one at a time...

For example if he receives 3 bills at once, he freaks out and is in an awful mood for days! But if that is only one bill.. he is fine..
Soooo weird! :scratchhead:


----------



## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

I typed out a long response but lost it. The thing is if the person won't cooperate you will never know exactly what is wrong. I know my ex has a severe thyroid disease that can mimic bipolar disorder. But he also has a lot of symptoms of BPD. Also I found out my daughter has sensory processing issues and I treating her I found out it is related to asperger's. Talking to other parents whose exes have asperger's really made me question whether the ex has that and BPD. 
When you get down to it the main issue is it doesn't matter what it's called. It could be "acts like an as$hole disorder" and it doesn't change that you have to decide how much you can live with and what you want from the rest of your life. Is there a way to be happy with yourself while married to him? 
My ex's unwillingness to meet my needs and his absolute refusal to stop starting fights in front if our daughter, calling me a ***** in front of her, threatening suicide so she got to see the cops come to our house twice....just made me decide I had to leave.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mom_In-Love (Mar 18, 2012)

I'm sorry you are going through this...

You say that your sex life is so-so... so does that mean that you are still attracted to him? ...and him to you? And, do you feel love or is it just duty?

Another thing to think about is, how do you feel about your husband now? Have you fallen out of love? Do you guys say "I love you" and mean it?

I'm just giving you things to think about, because, all in all *you* are the only one with the answers to your situation.

Do you feel like it will ever get better? Or, have you lost hope?


----------



## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

BPD'ers are charming when they want something and in this case it was YOU. They are unable however to handle the daily rigors of life ups and downs as you see. Unless he desires change and seeks professional help I'm sad to say nothing will change and if anything it will get worse.


----------



## savannah (Apr 4, 2008)

Mom_In-Love said:


> I'm sorry you are going through this...
> 
> You say that your sex life is so-so... so does that mean that you are still attracted to him? ...and him to you? And, do you feel love or is it just duty?
> 
> ...


_To be honest-- I don't know I think that I love him still - BASED ON WHAT WE HAD BEFORE -- Am I in love with him NOW? I don't know. I certainly have so much resentment towards our relationship-- that I am just really and truly holding on for the sake of not having the kids have a broken family life. I am kind of old fashioned that way, yes -- even at the risk of my unhappiness, I guess that's why I haven't left yet.

Believe me when I say that EVERYDAY I wish I were alone... I hate this thought of an empty marriage. And just cringe every night when I come home from work-- and we are in two seperate places in the house. 

I understand this is more my call than anything else.... BUT why is so difficult to do what I think I feel is right deep down??? I know I need to make MYSELF happy.. and to do that I need to be apart from him. but WHY can't I just get up and go???? Why is it harder for me?:scratchhead: _


----------



## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

savannah said:


> _
> 
> I understand this is more my call than anything else.... BUT why is so difficult to do what I think I feel is right deep down??? I know I need to make MYSELF happy.. and to do that I need to be apart from him. but WHY can't I just get up and go???? Why is it harder for me?:scratchhead: _


Because there is still a certain amount of love for him there. You have spent years trying to build something with someone you love/care for. your feeling are not just going to up and disappear after caring for someone for so long. I hate to say it, but part of it too is guilt. Even though you have done nothing wrong, part of it comes from the fact you know he may have something going on that he can't truly help. Well, partly he can't help, but he does know he needs help, and that is something he can help and choose to or not choose to get. Thats why its important for you to seek help, so a professional can help you deal with your feelings on the issue better.


----------



## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

I'll bet he feel similiar about your marriage.

I'd like to hear his side. and how much you changed and what he feels hes doing and trying to do that your not reconizing as an honest effort on his part.

maybe your expectations of what marriage is like are unrealistic and some more reasonable expectations would go a long way in this instance.


being labled as BPD without a diagnosis seem cruel. as men often we just suck it up and make the best of it and eventually it comes to a head and we short circut which can sometimes seem like BPD.

everything fine one minute and then a melt down over nothing.


espically to an arm chair phycologist.

this might be the perfect time to invest in your marriage take the first step and get the ball rolling.


----------



## savannah (Apr 4, 2008)

chillymorn said:


> I'll bet he feel similiar about your marriage.
> 
> I'd like to hear his side. and how much you changed and what he feels hes doing and trying to do that your not reconizing as an honest effort on his part.
> 
> ...


Well, being as yes I am no medical professional, it might sound mean for me to say..

Quite frankly, exploding in anger and back to joking again and back to exploding over 5-6x a day back and forth isn't exactly what you can call "normal" moods for most people -- 

so yes, I am assuming, but I think that's safe to say even on our worse days that we don't flip moods that quickly and that often within one day??

I don't mean to sound sexist on this comment either but we all have things that can give us "meltdowns " - Are guy meltdowns and different than womens???

-- I am guilty of that myself what with work, kids, etc I feel like going on a meltdown mood plenty of times ... BUT I do manage to get a grip and not let my moods get the best of my day, my life.

My husband on the other hand can't seem to have more than one issue to deal with at one time... so in fact if i sound very uncaring, it is purely because I have to be the stronger to take control of the family life -- Our family is clearly MINUS one person to rely on, so I have to be both MOM and DAD and keep the family afloat, regardless of my mood for the day...


----------



## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

if he is truly BPD then don't in sickness and in health kick in or is that just mumbo jombo that everybody says at their wedding and it really means if you don't meet my needs I'm out of here.

I'm not trying to be smart Its a true question if he can't help it because he is mentaly sick then dose that make it any better for you to accept?


----------



## savannah (Apr 4, 2008)

chillymorn said:


> if he is truly BPD then don't in sickness and in health kick in or is that just mumbo jombo that everybody says at their wedding and it really means if you don't meet my needs I'm out of here.
> 
> I'm not trying to be smart Its a true question if he can't help it because he is mentaly sick then dose that make it any better for you to accept?


_Oh I hear your point CHILLYMORN, and yes I would like to think I am still an old fashioned girl when it comes to marriage and sticking it out... Been at this little thing we call mariage for 20 years now.... we are now 40 and believe me I thought in the beginning it was immaturity on the whole mood thing...... but 20 years later it still goes on, I think thats part of the "for worse" don't you? Having to have lived 20 years HOPING the man you married will change??

I don't mean to be senical about this whole deal, and granted I do get he needs help. BUT if he can't be convinced to do so, what am I suppose to do? Tie him up and drag him to a doctor? To a counselor? _


----------



## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

Savannah, if you plan on sticking it out, you will need to get as much info on the issue as you can. Even though he has not been to the doctor to be diagnosed, it sounds like he might have that, so you need to treat it liked that, and how you do that is, you take care of you. Reading learning, getting counseling for yourself etc. It really stinks that you are his emotional punching bag I agree, but only you can decide if you want that to continue. Its not like he doesn't know he has issues. Its one thing to not know and quite another to know and refuse to get help for it.


----------



## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

well what about the you need to get some help if you want this marriage to work and if he still refuses then well you tried your best.


----------



## savannah (Apr 4, 2008)

CallaLily said:


> Savannah, if you plan on sticking it out, you will need to get as much info on the issue as you can. Even though he has not been to the doctor to be diagnosed, it sounds like he might have that, so you need to treat it liked that, and how you do that is, you take care of you. Reading learning, getting counseling for yourself etc. It really stinks that you are his emotional punching bag I agree, but only you can decide if you want that to continue. Its not like he doesn't know he has issues. Its one thing to not know and quite another to know and refuse to get help for it.


Absolutely! :iagree:... I am starting to read up on it... but somehow, I can't help to think... Ummm, why am I the only one doing the reading up? Hmmmm...:scratchhead:


----------



## savannah (Apr 4, 2008)

chillymorn said:


> well what about the you need to get some help if you want this marriage to work and if he still refuses then well you tried your best.


Oh yes, been there done that... said he would , never did... its a never ending cycle I'm afraid and sadly I accepted to not get off the ride ...


----------



## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

If he is BPD and he pretended to be charming and nice in order to get you to marry him, then he married you under false pretenses. 
We're the same age so I know what you mean. I held on for so long because of my daughter but when he started to call me names in front of her and start fights with her there, I knew it was time to end it. 
The thing is the kids know what his moods are like. They feel you walking on eggshells, they are learning that a relationship of separation is normal. I agonized over my divorce but I know it was for the best for her. Now she can see me a strong woman making choices and meeting my goals. She sees her stepfather and I having a loving relationship instead of living in a house with a miserable mom listening to fighting and seeing her dad's temper tantrums. 

I'm sure he would have come up with all kinds of reasons why the divorce was my fault. But he wasn't willing to do anything to make things better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

When someone is mentally unstable staying and allowing their abuse to continue to me is just nuts. Screw for better or for worse. And who cares what the diagnosis is. What he's doing is wrong. If he's not well enough to be in a HEALTHY relationship then she is well within her rights to leave. This isn't a child this is a grown man. 

Now if he were actively seeking help then I 'might' have a different answer.


----------



## savannah (Apr 4, 2008)

Mavash. said:


> BPD'ers are charming when they want something and in this case it was YOU. They are unable however to handle the daily rigors of life ups and downs as you see. Unless he desires change and seeks professional help I'm sad to say nothing will change and if anything it will get worse.


I'm at a loss.. feeling I want out.. but holding on... for what, I'm not sure. Feeling I need to help him perhaps? :scratchhead:

The one thing I need, that is technically FREE... he can't provide... HAPPINESS in our relationship... 

When you said CANT HANDLE DAILY RIGORS OF LIFE ... that is so true! He simply cannot function when he has more than one problem to deal with.. he can't get the bill for the electricity the same time he get the bill for the water... He will simple self implode! 

It's funny I suppose now that I think about how I was bent on avoiding to ever have a relationship with the type of man he ois now... yet here I am


----------



## Unhappy2011 (Dec 28, 2011)

Another unhappy spouse suspected of being bi-polar?

lol...this forum.


----------



## DanglingDaisy (Mar 26, 2012)

I'm right with you on this one savannah 

Difference is, my guy insists he's got BPD...he used to claim to be psychophrenic like his dad,but when seeing a counsellor for work related stress, it was debunked It seems my guy likes to use anything he can to justify his tantrums and manipulating verbal explosions.

At this point, I don't care a stinkin' rats butt whether my partner is or isn't any more. Been hearing him spew excuses for years. 

The last straw of having any sympathy for my partner on this line was last summer. Didn't save for his aunt's wedding,and last minute had remorse. Turned it around in his head,told me I was the reason we didn't have 3k sitting in the bank for the trip. Accused me of doing drugs,called his family and insisted he needed their help financially-made it seem to them that he was planning on leaving me with the kids :rofl: and got WHAT HE WANTED. To add insult to injury,he put his fist up like he was going to punch me.

When he got back from the one week trip(dropped kids off at the grandparents place for the summer-he decided on his own)...he then stated I would have to take all my banked vacation to take greyhound to go pick them up and bring them back home. Never showed any remorse.

Later on, I confronted him softly about almost punching me-he stated he merely "blacked out" and didn't know what he was doing. Later I talked to my friend's husband who used to be an avid street fighter-he stated there's NO WAY a guy blacks out like that unless he's being beaten senseless. So I confronted my partner-he shut up almost instantly.


Be aware that some sick folks will disgustingly use mental illness and disabilities to hide behind when they're actually controlling self serving jerks who just want their way.

I'm in shock that after three kids,and so many challenges to our marriage,what will ultimately lead to our demise is his lack of maturity. Ugh. If I had known this when I was 19yrs...I would have been a nun.

Hugs,


----------



## savannah (Apr 4, 2008)

A bit off topic--- 

By the way, is BPD hereditary? His brother and mother seems to be this way... His brothers wife tells me my brother in law is super moody too-- which I also don't see but she does behind closed doors... Did I marry a family full of BPD's??????


----------



## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

savannah said:


> A bit off topic---
> 
> By the way, is BPD hereditary? His brother and mother seems to be this way... His brothers wife tells me my brother in law is super moody too-- which I also don't see but she does behind closed doors... Did I marry a family full of BPD's??????


My theory is BPD stems from abuse or neglect. And it CAN go back generations. So my dad might have been abused by his dad and that's what made him a destructive narcissist. Since he didn't fix it he passed his toxic ways onto me. If I didn't fix it I can assure you with 100% certainty I would have passed it onto my kids.


----------



## savannah (Apr 4, 2008)

Mavash. said:


> My theory is BPD stems from abuse or neglect. And it CAN go back generations. So my dad might have been abused by his dad and that's what made him a destructive narcissist. Since he didn't fix it he passed his toxic ways onto me. If I didn't fix it I can assure you with 100% certainty I would have passed it onto my kids.


So mayber BPD is not hereditary more so than a LEARNED behavior? :scratchhead:

Both my H's mother and maternal grandmother are very much OCD, which my H also picked up from them, when we first got married he was horrible with the OCD because he was an excessive neat freak and it took almost 20 years for me to teach him that it was okay if things were not exactly in the right place or not AS clean as he would like things to be.

Occassionally he still would slip and have an OCD episode, but for the most part, it is managed.

I was just curious if BPD was something like that?


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

savannah said:


> When I first met my husband, clearly he was the apple of my eye! I thought he was so different from all the other guys I have met... We were in College and the excitement of finding THE RIGHT GUY was intoxicating, I though HE WAS IT!
> 
> We would talk for hours,have fun, TALK, share our dreams... simply IN LOVE with being with each other!
> 
> ...


It is likely that you both have changed. Also have been together for a while and the initial in love feeling and the chemicals flowing have diminished. You were looking for the most fit male at the time. This can be a spiraling effect. 

There is no one person. We all can fall in love with an endless number of people on this crazy diamond. So you are not looking for the next most fit male.

Marriage is work. It may very well be that over time he has really dropped off of his game. Fine. But typically life presents us with contionual challenges.

Is his job the same as when you met? Does he make more money? Is he under more stress? Do you have children? Do you guys spend time together? Do you do the things that allow you to keep falling in love with each other. Is the marriage the #1 priority? Whoe is meeting needs?

Try His Needs her Needs if you have not. Married Man Sex Life would probably help him once motivated.

When you are first in love, life is often very simple. It is easy to lose your way on the journey. Lose track of time.

Would he say the same things about you? I am not taking his side. I am trying to encourage you to re-engae and see if you can help turn things around. But it takes two.


You may have covered this but how is he jealous and controlling? Specifically.


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

savannah said:


> I've been suspecting for years he had BPD- or something like it... I don't know for sure because he wont see a doctor. We have gone through counselling to "help" the relationship, but it was not very good, since he hates being confronted with anything...
> 
> We've been together 20 years in total, and STILL he has never shown how he "used to be" for many years.. from time to time he CAN be pleasant.I imagine its when he's not totally having a BPD moment?
> 
> Otherwise.. he is very to himself... kids are so used to him this way now, its awful and a shame for him to miss out on their everyday lives because he is always so miserable and does not let anyone in...


I am not the same happy go lucky person I was when I was in my early 20s. After 20 years of marriage you have all sorts of responsibilities. Supporting a family can do that to you. I don't know your situation.

Keep in mind your college age husband was in love with a college age hottie. His testosterone levels were through the roof and he had no financial stress.
You want him to be that college age stud again?

Well I know what you mean but I suggest that you try and recapture things, but neither of you are in college any more. Redefine life from here forward.


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

savannah said:


> No, I equally spread my time for everyone in the family.. difficult to do but I try.
> 
> Attention? When I do give him, he's always miserable anyway so at this point, I've almost given up pursuing to coax him out of his rut...


I suggest you not spread equally. That you and your husband put each other first. This is the biggest things that happens to couples. He did not have to share you back in college with the kids.


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

savannah said:


> Exactly!!!!
> The more he has on his plate to "deal with" the worse he gets.. it's like he can mutli-task in his brain...
> He can only function if things are dealt with one at a time...
> 
> ...


I do not see this as weird at all. Be aware that tress can increase a man's sex drive. However financial stress or job will destroy it.

Do you both work? How even is the financial support coming in between the two of you? About even? Realize men tend to put a burden on themselves with their work. If he is the main sours eof income it all makes sense. The fact that the economy is down puts more pressure on us all.

So you think he has BPD and you think his family is BPD and you think he was using false advertising because he is not the same guy he was in College. Wow.

I am not accusing you of anything but it sounds like you are in a very dangerous place. A vilnerable target for a man to romance you away from your husband. You might think, that this man is my soulmate. he is that person I should have married to begin with. Then you view your husband as the outsider to pursue a life with your real love. The real deal. That one man who can "make you happy". We are responsible for our own happiness in life. Yes we want a partner to share our happiness. Have you made your husband happy? No as he is responsible for himself. But he surely must be BPD ... 

Consider that coming up on 40 is a very tough time for many folks. I suggest you look inwrd to yourself and see if you are not examining your life and feel it is somehow over now because you are 40. Which is totally off base. So we could say you are having a Mid Life Crisis and be as correct as saying someone is BPD. Either or both might be true.

You just sounds like you are ready to find the most fit male available. You have given up on that man being your husband. Has he been faithful to you? Is he supporting his family? Is he meeting your needs? I am assuming Yes, Yes, No.


----------



## savannah (Apr 4, 2008)

Entropy3000 said:


> It is likely that you both have changed. Also have been together for a while and the initial in love feeling and the chemicals flowing have diminished. You were looking for the most fit male at the time. This can be a spiraling effect.
> 
> There is no one person. We all can fall in love with an endless number of people on this crazy diamond. So you are not looking for the next most fit male.
> 
> ...


Oh, I totally get that married people DO change between the time they first marry to the present, whether it be 2 years or 20years.... I just feel that the changes was more so dramatic, than the norm... let's see.. the below are what he WAS NOT when we first got married:

1. Moody * Could be partially because I think he may be BPD*
2. Possessive * Always tries to look at who I look at when were in public, if I glanced a direction where there happens to be a man, he thinks I am looking at that guy*
3. Jealous * Always thinks I am either meeting men or meeting my old H.S. ex BF *
4. Doubtful * Does not trust me when I go anywhere *
5. Uninvolved * Does his own thing at home, barely sits and chats with me and the kids anymore*
6. Uncaring * Doesn't really show concern when I have my own problems, does not even care to console or help me *
7.Inconsiderate * Will think of himself first, like he would be out, buy HIMSELF food, but not me or the kids, not even asking if we ate yet or not *
8. Angry / Frustrated * always complaining about work, bills, money.... - we are doing OK, he just likes to ALWAYS complain about life in general... like a habit! * - His mother does this all the time too! 

and many more but I don't want to take up the whole thread listing them... 

And yes, I am sure I also must have changed too... but he doesn't even mention anything about that ... I get that we ALL change, but knowing we aren't doing well in our marriage, he doesn't even want to try and fix things.. often I mention we should spend at least one day alone, just him and I ..watch a movie, dinner... anything! He declines every time, like he has better things to do... and so the problem is left as is...


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

savannah said:


> Oh, I totally get that married people DO change between the time they first marry to the present, whether it be 2 years or 20years.... I just feel that the changes was more so dramatic, than the norm... let's see.. the below are what he WAS NOT when we first got married:
> 
> 1. Moody * Could be partially because I think he may be BPD*
> 2. Possessive * Always tries to look at who I look at when were in public, if I glanced a direction where there happens to be a man, he thinks I am looking at that guy*
> ...


I suggest he see a doctor about BPD. It is dangerous to just assume it.

Do you work or is he the total source of income. I keep asking that becuase that matters so much to what you are saying. If you are making more money than him for example it is hard to understand why he is the way he is.

Is there any history that would lead him to be jealous? Do you do activities with other men? Do you have close male friends or contact with old BFs? Have you told him what you told us? Just trying to figure out if he is totally delusional about this or he has some reason for concern. 

I am a guy, I jump in to trying to fix things and I know that can be very annoying to some women. I am doing better with my wife and daughters. I do better now listening and themn asking if they want help or not. Most often it is just venting or talking.

I honestly hate to see families going through what you are. I think for the most part you guys are going through what many of us go through in a marriage of 20+ years. He may indeed have BPD. A very positve step would be for you guys to see the doctor. Maybe even together.

He sounds totally stressed out and has shutdown. Not good. He has to coopoerate but you need to at least try to reach him before you give up. He probably needs you now more than ever. Just as you need him.


----------



## savannah (Apr 4, 2008)

1- We both work. I only now make a little less than him as the economy changed and my positions salary decreased. Otherwise for 20 years I made more.

2- Jelousy... that stems from his obsession with thinking I am runnig away with my highs school EX BF , when we met, it was a year after I broke up with my EX BF, the ex of course would still try and call my parents house trying to get to talk to me... even then I never entertained it since I was already dating my H.... from that time he always felt that I was to this day wanting to run off with him! ** My ex was my first serious BF, and I think he was jealous of that because I was HIS first serious GF* , to this day he would constantly dream about me running away with another man, wake up and be soooo angry with me for days , becasue of a DREAM! Insane!

3- We tried MC - No go.
He was #1 not very into it, I managed to convince him to TRY it... but our counselor made him open up to this jealousy issue and then did not say much after getting him to open up , except "We'll get into this next week"... so for a week my H was miserable , angry -- that did not go well at all!

4- No I do not do anything with other men socially. I hardly even go out with girlfriends... most of my time is work, home and the kids. I commute an hour to work, to it leaves me hardly anytime when I get home except family.

So I don't really understand .. that is why i relate all to a possible BPD, but he doesnt want to be seen by a professional... embarassed I suppose to be told of what could be wrong with him... he associates disorders as being crazy people needing help... It's really hard for me to TRY when its a one way road...


----------



## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

Genetics and environment can play a role in BPD and many other mental disorders. 

Hard to say if its more one than the other. Bottom line get BPD books now and start to read read read, then you will know better what you're up against, how to better deal with it or if you should leave. Choices with living with some with mental illness,1)Stay and and do nothing, let their behavior continue to drag you down and hurt you. 2) Stay but educate yourself on things so you will know how to live your life a little better, also seek therapy and a support group. 3) Leave and make yourself happy and find the life you deserve.


----------



## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

savannah said:


> So I don't really understand .. that is why i relate all to a possible BPD, but he doesnt want to be seen by a professional... embarassed I suppose to be told of what could be wrong with him... he associates disorders as being crazy people needing help... It's really hard for me to TRY when its a one way road...


BECAUSE people with BPD rarely get help. They do NOT want help. They do not want to be told whats wrong with them, (most people don't) They live in their own little world, a world they create. Its negative and distorted, its where they are comfortable and all they know. Stepping outside their little shell to get help is scary.


----------



## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

I think you need to be really careful because when you are ignored and treated like you don't exist, it makes you fall in love with the first guy who comes along and actually listens and says "I understand." even if you do decide to leave, do it with the intention that you are working on yourself and the understanding that it takes time to heal from toxic relationships. I had two guys (not at the same time) that I was head over heels for. One just didn't have any romantic interest in me and I am SO glad now but at the time it just added to the intense pain I was already feeling. It's like you're in an emotional desert and any cute guy who says "I'm sorry, you deserve better" is the life saving water supply. It really doesn't make it easy to make good choices. 
Luckily the people I was into weren't interested in anything long term. And again I have to thank his because it would have been bad. 
I think unless people live with a person like this they just don't get it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## savannah (Apr 4, 2008)

diwali123 said:


> I think you need to be really careful because when you are ignored and treated like you don't exist, it makes you fall in love with the first guy who comes along and actually listens and says "I understand." even if you do decide to leave, do it with the intention that you are working on yourself and the understanding that it takes time to heal from toxic relationships. I had two guys (not at the same time) that I was head over heels for. One just didn't have any romantic interest in me and I am SO glad now but at the time it just added to the intense pain I was already feeling. It's like you're in an emotional desert and any cute guy who says "I'm sorry, you deserve better" is the life saving water supply. It really doesn't make it easy to make good choices.
> Luckily the people I was into weren't interested in anything long term. And again I have to thank his because it would have been bad.
> I think unless people live with a person like this they just don't get it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_that is true! I often think that there are other guys out there that would maybe be better for me than him, and the truth of the matter is there probably is!

I hate to think this way, but HE isn't making my outlook very bright at all with all that has changed between us. Just when I thought after 20 years, we would be even MORE close in our relationship.. well, it isn't and in fact we've drifted further and further from each other... 

I still care about him a lot. but things that happen do make me care about him less and less everyday... _


----------



## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

savannah said:


> So mayber BPD is not hereditary more so than a LEARNED behavior? :scratchhead:


I have ptsd and I've read it can be passed down from a parent as a learned behavior. But I argue being raised by someone with ptsd comes with it's own neglect so that compounds the problem. 

I find it hard to believe that someone is BORN with BPD. It had to come from somewhere. Just my theory though so take that with a grain of salt. I'm no expert.


----------



## savannah (Apr 4, 2008)

Mavash. said:


> I have ptsd and I've read it can be passed down from a parent as a learned behavior. But I argue being raised by someone with ptsd comes with it's own neglect so that compounds the problem.
> 
> I find it hard to believe that someone is BORN with BPD. It had to come from somewhere. Just my theory though so take that with a grain of salt. I'm no expert.


Well, yes I do agree... I'm just trying to put 2 and 2 together, since "moodiness" is common for people in my H's family-

I just ask this becasue our daughter is showing signs of what I think is peculiar moodiness.. But I too am no expert. 
It could also be becasue she is 16! 

But in any case I just happen to notice she has mood swings as well... and it worries me a bit. Often I tell her this and that she better straighten out that mood of hers! I don't want her getting USED to that this behavior is something she is going to impose on others. She NEEDS to be aware she is imposing it on other people around her and that is not okay!


----------



## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

My 11 year old son is moody and if you read his birth sign (Cancer) it says guess what? They are moody. LOL

However I have made it a point to teach him HOW to manage his bad moods instead of falling into some black pit of negativity. I even put him in therapy for a year and that really helped. He's able to now put names to how he feels, can ask for what he wants/needs, and has more power over his world. THAT is the key to beating moodiness.


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

savannah said:


> 1- We both work. I only now make a little less than him as the economy changed and my positions salary decreased. *Otherwise for 20 years I made more.*
> 
> Then it is not that he has carried the greater burden of support, so that is not it.
> 
> ...


Sorry, I don't get it either then. He needs help. I think professional help. But often people who do will not get it.


----------



## savannah (Apr 4, 2008)

Mavash. said:


> My 11 year old son is moody and if you read his birth sign (Cancer) it says guess what? They are moody. LOL
> 
> However I have made it a point to teach him HOW to manage his bad moods instead of falling into some black pit of negativity. I even put him in therapy for a year and that really helped. He's able to now put names to how he feels, can ask for what he wants/needs, and has more power over his world. THAT is the key to beating moodiness.


Agree! Moodiness CAN BE CONTROLLED! Like I say, unless you are unconscious while you have moodiness, there is ALWAYS a point where you know when you are going too far!

I don't tolerate it at home, what with the H being as he is, I am adament to teach my kids to watch their moods!


----------



## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

I think people with mood and personality disorders can help a certain amount of their mood(s). I think sometimes they just choose not to, which can be worse than if they can't help it. If they ever can break out of that "woe is me" or the "Victim" mentality then maybe they can get some kind of help, but probably not till then.


----------



## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

Yes lots choose not to. 
Maybe your daughter sees the tension in the house and that is why shes moody?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## savannah (Apr 4, 2008)

CallaLily said:


> I think people with mood and personality disorders can help a certain amount of their mood(s). I think sometimes they just choose not to, which can be worse than if they can't help it. If they ever can break out of that "woe is me" or the "Victim" mentality then maybe they can get some kind of help, but probably not till then.


WELL SAID CALLA! :smthumbup:

My H always like to play victim... always complaining about work (which he really doesn't hate), long hours (he volunteers to do overtime for the extra $), bill ( same bills EVRY month, no more no less)

There is ALWAYS stuff to complain about and be upset about... I think he just enjoys being a big ol' grump!


----------



## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

savannah said:


> WELL SAID CALLA! :smthumbup:
> 
> My H always like to play victim... always complaining about work (which he really doesn't hate), long hours (he volunteers to do overtime for the extra $), bill ( same bills EVRY month, no more no less)
> 
> There is ALWAYS stuff to complain about and be upset about... I think he just enjoys being a big ol' grump!


i will admit to some of that behavior. im not BP and have no real health issues. i am the sole breadwinner and my job is stressful, i have 3 kids that are EXTREMELY active in sports, and that also stresses out my SAHW. my wife and i put us last, bad thing to do i know. i often feel trapped and do want more for both of us. bottom line is when we have a skosh of downtime, we just want to flop down and relax.


----------



## sunnylove (Mar 27, 2012)

OP, you seem to be blaming your husband for everything and not realizing that marriage is a 2-way street. And marriage isn't always going to be 50/50 give and take. Sometimes you're putting 80% of effort into the marriage, and he's putting in 20%. Sometimes he's putting in 60% and you're putting in 40%. Sometimes that's how marriages work. And you can't give up on it and just blame him.

Is there anything that YOU need to be doing differently? He's not meeting your emotional needs, but are you meeting his? I mean REALLY. Think about it. Are you? A lot of women will say, "But why the heck would I want to do [*insert nice things here*] to a man who is a rude jerk?" Why would he want to do things for a resentful, moody wife? Someone needs to start somewhere, and it may have to be YOU.


----------



## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

First let me say I did not read ALL the post(s) so hopefully I'm not repeating anything.

His Needs/Her Needs discusses this phenomenom.

When you first meet and fall in love you both fill needs within each other that makes you attractive to the other (such as you're a talker, he's more quiet, he fills your need to have someone listen, etc.).

During this dating/falling in love stage, you focus on those things that excite you and make you want to be with that person and essentially ignore all those things that don't fit that mode of "falling in love." Those things are there, but you don't see them or refuse to acknowledge them.

Fast forward to after marriage and living with each other day to day and the hassles and stress of everyday life and adding children to the mix. 

I would bet that your husband is pretty much the same person he was (a lot of our personality traits are fixed at an early age and rarely change), but now you are no longer in the excitement stage of falling in love - your blinders are off - and you suddenly see traits that you don't like and don't recognize - but that doesn't mean they weren't there to begin with.

So, sit down and reflect and ask yourself:

- Were some of these traits there while we were dating and when you first married but you ignored or didn't pay attention to them? Be honest here.

- Are some of them worse? If so, could it be the stress of the family, money problems, a disconnect between you both - is there something going on with him that he has not spoke to you about?

- Where have you changed? Are you more stressed and treating him differently also?

- Have you thought that maybe he feels the same way about you but hasn't expressed it or can't put his finger on what may/may not have changed?

Life and people change. We mature as we age (hopefully) and as our relationships evolve and change. But - our basic personality traits are pretty much fixed and rarely change. 

There are ALWAYS three sides to every story - yours, his and the truth which lies somewhere in the middle. 

You know your own story, perhaps you need to find out what his is and then you can both try to work together to recapture what made you fall in love with each other in the first place.

Good luck!


----------



## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

savannah said:


> I've been suspecting for years he had BPD- or something like it... I don't know for sure because he wont see a doctor. We have gone through counselling to "help" the relationship, but it was not very good, since he hates being confronted with anything...
> 
> We've been together 20 years in total, and STILL he has never shown how he "used to be" for many years.. from time to time he CAN be pleasant.I imagine its when he's not totally having a BPD moment?
> 
> Otherwise.. he is very to himself... kids are so used to him this way now, its awful and a shame for him to miss out on their everyday lives because he is always so miserable and does not let anyone in...


If he has BPD, then he had it while you were dating and when you first married. You just didn't see this because you were in the "falling in love" stage where you ignore those things that don't fit the excitement of falling in love with someone.

I would bet he is just as unhappy as you, but it appears you both aren't talking about it.

He could also have PTSD, some of what you are describing fit PTSD to a "T".

My husband and I are both retired miliary and he has PTSD and I see these behaviors all the time. 

If he has PTSD, it's not his fault, but he does need help.

If he has BPD, it's also not his fault, but he does need help and possibly medication.

He needs to see a doctor either way.


----------



## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Mavash. said:


> I have ptsd and I've read it can be passed down from a parent as a learned behavior. But I argue being raised by someone with ptsd comes with it's own neglect so that compounds the problem.
> 
> I find it hard to believe that someone is BORN with BPD. It had to come from somewhere. Just my theory though so take that with a grain of salt. I'm no expert.


According to my research, BPD is substantially caused by genetic factors (therefore hereditary in nature) and also by environmental factors. 

PTSD is caused by a traumatic or a series of traumatic events. It is not genetic or hereditary in nature and is also not considered learned behavior. 

You can find massive amounts of research material on the internet concerning both condition(s).

Also - based on my own personal experience and through the support group I attend for spouses with PTSD - just because you are around someone with PTSD, it does not make you more susceptible to having PTSD yourself or manifesting behaviors of the PTSD individual. My husband has severe PTSD from the Gulf War (he was there), and I have no symptoms of, or experienced any of his PTSD issues as I did not experience the traumatic events that led to his PTSD.

In turn, those who do experience traumatic events do not always experience PTSD symptoms or issues. This is usually related to one's ability to cope and process with traumatic events. Some are "stronger" in that respect than others. I have experienced several traumatic events in my life, but have yet to suffer from or experience PTSD from them. I have better coping mechanisms than my husband, due in part to the environment I was raised in.


----------



## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

In my case I didn't see it when we were dating because BPDs are very manipulative and charming, they can act like a "normal" person to get what they want. 
My ex was the life of the party type. After we got married his behavior toward me changed greatly. It is very common for them to change personalities almost the next day after the wedding. 
Mine drive me crazy because he would act like a jerk to me, be rude and angry but if a friend called he was back to
polite funny happy guy. Then he got off the phone and was back in "I hate you for no reason" mode. 
It's just very hard to figure out why they do anything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

I've read bits of this thread and others and I think it is important to clarify what folks mean when they use the acronym BPD--Bi-Polar Disorder or Borderline Personality Disorder. 

It's just "good form" to use the whole phrase, followed by the acronym in parentheses (BPD) each time you introduce it--even if it is sprinkled throughout the thread. I'm pretty sure some folks think BPD is just one thing, and it can mean 2, so confusion is especially common with this acronym.

Of course, a person can be BOTH types of BPD, which is BPD squared (not funny to live with--I have a sibling with both).


----------



## DanglingDaisy (Mar 26, 2012)

"In turn, those who do experience traumatic events do not always experience PTSD symptoms or issues. This is usually related to one's ability to cope and process with traumatic events. Some are "stronger" in that respect than others. I have experienced several traumatic events in my life, but have yet to suffer from or experience PTSD from them. I have better coping mechanisms than my husband, due in part to the environment I was raised in."

My partner has a low coping/processing ability-it was apparent especially when he had to work and live without me and his family for three months ten years ago. He got completely lonely and severely depressed and had a complete mental breakdown. I ended up having to leave our two older sons(who were less than 5yrs at the time-which was NEAR IMPOSSIBLE FOR ME)with hubby's parents for three months while I moved myself to where he was and tried to emotionally/psychologically be there for him(he was almost suicidal at that point) and ensure he was stable to do his new job and to provide the basics for our kids before bringing them back(I looked for work again and tried saving everything I made as well  ).

In my mind, I could see with how codependant we were on each other for so long,how lonely he felt(I missed him terribly too), at the same time, I thought, well in your shoes, had I sat their until my employment insurance ran out without even trying to look for skilled work (which was pretty easy for him to find at the time),we lost our home,had to move across country to live with his parents(all the while tuning out to your partner's desperate cries and screams of PLEASE BUCK UP 'CAUSE WE'RE GONNA BE HOMELESS IF YOU DON'T!!!)-then I would accept responsibility,accept the fact that I screwed up, and do everything to get things back on track! He knew my unskilled labour job would have never been enough to pay all the bills as his skilled jobs easily could..if he bothered 

Later on,his guilt over it all got directed into making "me" feel like I was to blame for it all...it took him two years to admit to his role in things falling apart 

I went through PTSD last year shortly before the summer(bullying and abusive coworker and boss)-after a year of trying everything in the org to stop it,I mentally and physically broke down-(first time ever experiencing PTSD). The incident I mentioned earlier about my partner going on that trip and trashing me to his family?That happened shortly before I was supposed to go back to work after my sick/stress leave..I realized then that my partner was going through another bad case of "I want what I want when I want it" mentality  He failed to see that his lack of saving for the year WAS THE CAUSE-but oh,let's take it all out on the wife again-who gives crappola about HER and her traumas right now.

I've dealt with psychological/emotional abuse growing up with my mom(who was sexually,physically and psychologically abused by her father),physical/psychological from my brother,almost getting killed by my mother's ex when I was 12yrs, bullying and taunting in school including high school, sexual harrassment,sexual abuse from two former boyfriends,losing a stillbirth son at 19yrs old(no family or friend support in any way)...and everything I've endured being with my husband... 

I'm coming out of my slumber of denial. I know now my gut was right all along... my partner has needed me to stay submissive-he needs to feel in control...and while he needs to seriously get help with his anger management,his laziness and his hatred-I need to break free from his suffocating chains. I've worked hard the last couple of years to face many of my fears,self doubt and self destructive patterns. I have challenged myself in ways to be a better person,more independant,loving myself instead of beating myself up,striving for an education that I was supposedly too stupid to be able to pursue(I let other's poisonous words be my own mantra-NO MORE).

By standing up to the bullying at work, I wasn't just standing up against them, I was standing up to all the bullies in my life-and I was willing to die in order to show myself that I WAS WORTH FIGHTING FOR. My partner had the opportunity to be that knight in shining armor last year,to help me when I needed him the most-what he in fact DID was reflect that big old shiny mirror on himself...that shining prince...was actually a huge ugly creature all this time. I didn't believe anything he said any more after that-words of love and committment turned garbage to my ears after last summer...they continue to stink as time goes by.


----------



## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Whoa there! Most everyone is jumping on the BPD or bpd band wagon to "explain" your husband's behavior. No one is qualified to classify him into a nice category based on your behavioral assessment. He really needs to be evaluate by a psychologist to determine exactly what is going on with him. Also, some medical conditions should be ruled out--like insulin resistance, for example.

During the last few years of our marriage, my husband declared me to be bi-polar. He even went as far as to tell my family and even had his colleagues agreeing with his diagnosis. Wow! That was counterproductive. I was then REALLY angry!

Due to other medical issues beginning in 2009, I ended up seeing a neuro-psychologist. After extensive testing HE determined I didn't have BPD (never had). Instead I was suffering from severe stress; it did a lot of damage. And guess who was responsible for most of my stress? 

The bottom line is that he will have to get a proper evaluation before you can even begin to work on your marriage.


----------



## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Savannah- I have a lot of sympathy for you, and empathy as well. I feel like you are getting attacked quite a bit here. I've been feeling the exact thing in my life, and have found myself saying and thinking some of the same phrases you have in your posts. Who was this man, and where did he go? I know I changed. And not for the better. I became a ball of stress because EVERYTHING revolved around him, how he was feeling, how he slept, how things were at work, how his health was, etc. And it was very noticeable after our son was born. We were so happy and share everything right up til we both came home from the hospital. After a couple of days (!) he no longer wanted to help with changing when I got up to feed him, and was getting p!ssed because the nighttime feedings were interrupting his sleep. I found myself stressed out, trying to keep a newborn quiet so it didn't wake up Daddy! A newborn, for God's sake. The scary thing to me was how I didn't say anything at the time, and it just got worse and became a way of life. Very much like the frog in the pot of water metaphor. We also dated 4 years before we married, I also did what I thought was best/enough to prevent ending up in just the situation I am today - a soon-to-be-single parent in my 40s, with a less-than-amicable divorce from someone with very deep-seated mental issues. He has been officially diagnosed w/ OCD and major depression, BTW. I spoke to his therapist a couple of months ago, and he was dumbfounded when I told him about some of STBXH's treatment of me, and his attitudes towards things in general. He knows I'm currently in treatment, and my IC wanted me to make sure I told him that she is treating me as an abused wife. She believes me. After I told him, he does, too. STBXH is not happy with me, because now his therapist is holding him to some of these things and wanting him to face them. It's making me especially angry because now STBXH is bringing our son into it, minimizing the little that I've told him (that this was not my choice, and that we were not able to get along anymore and that Daddy said he didn't want to be married to me anymore. Our son saw a lot on his own, he's not a stupid kid. He sees how I've changed since I've been away from his dad.), and telling him there was never ANY mistreatment of me. Not just his opinion, but as fact. I am livid. I do not want our son in the middle, but what his dad is doing is wrong. STBHX will do ANYTHING he has to in order to not take responsibility for ANYTHING, whether it's missing a deadline at school, doing something wrong at work (when he had a regular job), excusing why he wasn't at least helping more at home when he didn't have a regular job, etc. 

One thing I wish someone had told me, and I'm glad to see this changing, is that a spouse of someone with depression, or OCD, or BPD (and I'm referring to Borderline, but it would be true for Bipolar, too), or any serious mental illness/disorder runs a significant risk of mental illness themselves. I just read a book today about marriages where one spouse is depressed. These couples are NINE TIMES more likely to divorce than couples where neither partner is depressed. What do they recommend? That the non-depressed partner urge treatment, and get it themselves, too; offer unconditional support to the depressive; but be realistic and take their own health, mental and physical, very seriously. If there are kids involved and one parent is not seeking treatment for illness, then the other parent needs to be healthy for those kids. That may be, in reality, the only functioning parent they have. Growing up with a mentally ill parent could have some pretty devastating effects on a child's development. They need to be as grounded with the other parent as possible. If the depressed spouse will not seek treatment or admit there's a problem, then the non-depressed spouse must turn to taking care of him/herself and their children. Many of us ended up in troubled relationships because we had parents who needed, and didn't get, treatment. AT some point, we need to not pour everything we have into our spouses. WE cannot heal them. We will kill ourselves trying. Literally. I was sick all the time when I lived with STBXH, waiting for things to get 'better,' taking onmore and more so he didn't have to. I'm actually doing more on my own now, and I rarely get a headache. I haven't been actually sick once since I moved out. I think that speaks for itself.

I feel that what you are talking about is really being minimized. Yes, you took a vow about sickness and health. I did, too, and it kept me with him years longer because of it. I knew he had a health problem, but his health problem didn't cause him to have a heart attack or go into insulin shock, it makes him an abusive A$$hole. He's gone to therapy for years, but when he told me he wanted to split, he admitted that he never once mentioned anything about our marriage to any of his therapists. It was always about how sad he was and how life was so horrible and everyone treated him so badly. Our life wasn't horrible, and until his a$$holery became public, people thought he was a fantastic guy. I wanted to believe he was a fantastic guy still inside.

I have a box of letters that we wrote to each other while we were dating. He was a fundamentally different sounding person then. Not just in how he treated me, but how he talked about and treated other people, too. If Savannah's husband is the same, and it sounds like he is due to him treating at least his own kids as badly as he treats his wife, then how is that her fault? 

Not spending enough time with him should not make him take it out on his kids. And her changing over time, or him changing over time, does not excuse emotionally abusive behavior. What you are describing, Savannah, is emotional abuse. And I'll bet your husband would never allow you to tell him that, or allow himself to think of himself that way. 

I had a big talk with STBXH at his request yesterday. I feel like he is in never-neverland. He does not even understand the reality of what this divorce is about and how it's affecting other people. He's upset that I still talk to my mother-in-law and my sisters-in-law, and that they are upset with him. He's sure that's my fault. He doesn't like it that our son doesn't respect him, and wants to spend more time with me, and behaves much better for me than him. He's blaming this all on me. I couldn't even figure out what he was asking me to do about it! Even though he initiated the divorce, and would not seek counseling no matter how much I begged, he will not now admit that. I will not let him get away with making it a mutual decision, and it drives him to tears, a tactic he uses with everyone to influence their actions. I've seen it more than anyone, and it doesn't work anymore. He's a grown man, for God's sake, and he cries more than my 9 year old. And only about himself. Not even when any of his grandparents passed away. Not even when we had a miscarriage. 

But now he is openly dating his most recent EA, and it's absolutely eerie to see him acting just the way he did with me. The almost giddy infatuation, the preening, the attentiveness to her. And she's someone with issues from her past, just like me. Except this time around, he's with someone who also has chemical issues, just like his parents. I wish them both good luck on that. 

I had to realize, Savanna, that I really do not love him. I *loved* him, even through the hard times. But I looked at it this way -- if I'd just met him and go to know him, and saw the way he really is, not the fake dating persona, would I love him? Like him? Want to be with him? I had to be honest and say No. That's why I don't cry or get so desolate feeling when I think of the two of them together. I feel horrible at being rejected, at not being able to have a chance to work things out. There's nothing objectively bad enough that we shouldn't have been able to work through. I'd been through much worse in my life before I met him. 

And BTW, I also tried to figure out if he was Aspie or BPD. He even wondered if he was Aspie. He will not consider something like NPD or BPD, because they are less sympathetic-sounding. Just like he told me that the list of his emotionally abusive actions toward me could not be true because he was not an emotional abuser. Period.

Take heart. Visit the bpdcentral site, and read Shari Schreiber's articles on gettinbetter.com. They were really enlightening. I realized that STBXH is the 'waif' variety. Everything fit into place. Those articles described me, they described him, our backgrounds, our relationship. Again, it was eerie.

If you ever want to PM, please do. Take care of yourself.


----------



## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> According to my research, BPD is substantially caused by genetic factors (therefore hereditary in nature) and also by environmental factors.
> 
> PTSD is caused by a traumatic or a series of traumatic events. It is not genetic or hereditary in nature and is also not considered learned behavior.
> 
> ...


There is also a sub-type of PTSD, called Complex PTSD (sometimes also C-PTSD) which can affect people who have been in abusive relationships. It can cause some of the same symptoms, such as hypervigilance, flashbacks, etc., but it comes from long-term lower-level (as opposed to wartime combat or natural disaster) exposure to trauma. Sometimes it's compared to Stockholm Syndrome in explaining why some partners stay with abusers. I experienced some of the flashbacks, hypervigilance, etc., with STBXH, and definitely had to work through a lot with my IC. We did DBT to work on coping skills.


----------



## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

angelpixie said:


> There is also a sub-type of PTSD, called Complex PTSD (sometimes also C-PTSD) which can affect people who have been in abusive relationships. It can cause some of the same symptoms, such as hypervigilance, flashbacks, etc., but it comes from long-term lower-level (as opposed to wartime combat or natural disaster) exposure to trauma. Sometimes it's compared to Stockholm Syndrome in explaining why some partners stay with abusers. I experienced some of the flashbacks, hypervigilance, etc., with STBXH, and definitely had to work through a lot with my IC. We did DBT to work on coping skills.


I understand what you're saying, my first marriage was physically and emotionally abusive. My point was, not all traumatic events lead to any type of PTSD - it is dependent on coping mechanisms in the individual. 

Even with my abusive first marriage and other traumatic events, I have yet to experience PTSD. Even after my husband, during a PTSD flashback, beat the hell out of me--that didn't even induce PTSD symptoms. I have yet to have flashbacks of the beating (and it was pretty scary/severe) and I am still not hypervigilant or scared of him. 

I'm sorry you are going through a form of PTSD, as someone who is living with someone diagnosed with severe PTSD, I have seen how stressful it can be. I'm in a spouse's support group that helps me share with other spouses and learn how to cope and deal with his PTSD issues and to understand when to back off and when to move closer.

Good luck with your journey.


----------

