# Friends Taking Sides



## SDtired (Oct 11, 2016)

Hey new here, dony know really how to start so I'd give some info on what led me here.

Met my wife through friends right after college, we dated for five years and got married that was six years ago. We had a baby girl two years. We had ups and downs like every couple but I was determined to make it work. I made sure had a date night every week and spent time together. I read alot about marriage and how couples can lose that spark. Also I was very upfront about cheating, that if either of us felt the marriage was to be honest. It would hurt but infidelity would be much worse. I saw it first hand with both my parents cheating.

I thought everything was going fine, I know typical. A day before my wife and her friends were going on a girls vacation she dropped a bomb on me. She had been thinking about an open marriage. I give her credit she hadbooks about how wonderful it was for everyone involved and how a couple of her friends did it. Now about these friends the two she's talking about I hate. Complete turbo ****s, before any gives me **** about that term its because of every one of their relationships ended because they screwed around. So I know for a fact they had been whispering in her ear. Hell one of them made a pass at me once and my excused at as that's just how her friend is.

I humored my wife and said I'd read the books and she left. I flipped through them with zero intention of considering it and of course it was just new age bull**** for screwing around. To me this was a deal breaker and I called my best friend to tell him what happened. Over the course of that week he helped me rent a storage unit to move my stuff out and to find a lawyer. On the day she was supposed to come back I dropped our daughter off with her mother because I didn't want to see my wife at all. And I admit I left a ****ty note on top of the books she gave me along with my wedding ring.

That all happened two months ago. I won't bore you with the details of all the stuff happened inbetween. The basics she was served and I offered a 50/50 split on everything. I didn't want this to get ugly. And before you ask I did a paternity test and she's mine. 

But here's my question all our mutual friends are pleading her case to me, the same with her family. I've tried being nice about things but it's getting harder everyday. I'm being made out as the monster here and she's the innocent party. I personally don't want to expose the reason why I left her because it's embarrassing but I am getting tired of being called the bad guy. The only person who knows is my best friend and his wife. 

Any advice?


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Did your wife cheat or did she only ask about an open marriage?


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## SDtired (Oct 11, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> Did your wife cheat or did she only ask about an open marriage?


I have no real proof but I think she did or at least had someone picked out. 

She started back at work after taking time off for our daughter, there was one guy who started while she was off that bothered me somewhat. A little too friendly with a married woman. And she had been hanging out with her two friends more often, drinks after work which I was cool with because I knew she needed some time to relax. 

Our sex life slowed a little after our daugher came around but take away the first couple months we average 3-4 times a week. And without getting too graphic I made sure we kept things adventurous. She never mentioned any issues so that's why the open marriage idea didn't sit right. If your unhappy you just don't jump to lets screw other people as your first solution. That's why I think she used it as a cover. And to completely honest even if there wasn't I was done.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

There has got to be more to this story that you are not telling. 

What was this girls trip? Where to and for how long? Did you fully agree with her going or not? 

Sounds like you reacted to more than just her telling you she was thinking about an open marriage.

Quality of friends is one of the top indicators of a person's values, maturity, and relationship conduct, IMO. I believe this is true for men and women. It's why I have few true woman friends and I choose them wisely.


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## SDtired (Oct 11, 2016)

Satya said:


> There has got to be more to this story that you are not telling.
> 
> What was this girls trip? Where to and for how long? Did you fully agree with her going or not?
> 
> ...


They went to wine country, hitting different vineyards. I had zero issues with her going. It was a group of ten women, most of them I really like except the two I mentioned. Now if it was just those two I would have had a problem. My wife knows that I don't like them and think they're both toxic. But I tolerated them for her sake since they had been friends since college.

Other than that guy rubbing me the wrong way, there was nothing. Like I said she never mentioned any problems with intimacy physical or emotional at all and then she mentions an open marriage. My gut tells me there more, I have no proof but again to jump straight to that set off alarm bells.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Just tell them the truth, that she asked for an open marriage, and that was a dealbreaker for you.


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## rzmpf (Mar 11, 2016)

If you don't tell them your reason and the marriage seemed quite healthy of course they are on her side. You are now the azz that left your wife over ....apparently nothing? Hard to understand your position if you don't know the facts. Just tell them what she wanted and that it was a dealbreaker because you lost your trust in her to remain faithful and you didn't want your kid to grow up with parents in a marriage of mistrust and resentment.

And even if you tell them there will be people thinking you overreacted or won't believe you (if she denies) or whatever. Who cares, you live your life for you, not for them. Just try to remain at least halfway amicable with her for your kid and take care of your daughter as best you can.


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## TAM2013 (Jul 15, 2013)

SDtired, kudos to you for the swift way you dealt with this bullsh!t. She sounds like one of these broads who easily gets her ear bent by toxic friends........doesn't have a brain of her own. Good fvcking riddance.

You don't need to broadcast the reasons (you must feel embarrassed for both of you), but make sure you tell those closest to you. Just humor her and act indifferent because in 3-4 months you will be with your attitude.

Again, massive respect. It's a shame all men don't think like you/me.


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## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

jld said:


> Just tell them the truth, that she asked for an open marriage, and that was a dealbreaker for you.


OP-I'd just tell your closest family members & friends. Don't worry, it'll spread to everyone else in no time. 

Hats off to you though for standing up for yourself. However, you may have given her a mixed signal by stating that you'd read the books when you knew you had absolutely no intention of doing so. That was a bit passive aggressive. Regardless, if she wanted an open marriage and you didn't, it'll never work. Never.


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## CuriousBlue (Oct 7, 2016)

IMO, you two need to talk. You can't just split without talking. What's the harm, at that point? At least you will know what is going on, because she knows she has nothing left to lose. You'll leave if you don't know what's going on. You might leave if you Do know what's going on. She's definitely on-notice now that you've done what you've done and maybe you could reverse it, maybe not. But at least you'll know for yourself what's really happening. Maybe you'll learn from it. Maybe she'll learn from it.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

SDtired said:


> Hey new here, dony know really how to start so I'd give some info on what led me here.
> 
> Met my wife through friends right after college, we dated for five years and got married that was six years ago. We had a baby girl two years. We had ups and downs like every couple but I was determined to make it work. I made sure had a date night every week and spent time together. I read alot about marriage and how couples can lose that spark. Also I was very upfront about cheating, that if either of us felt the marriage was to be honest. It would hurt but infidelity would be much worse. I saw it first hand with both my parents cheating.
> 
> ...


Expose.

Hell, odds are she'd already opened the marriage anyway.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

jld said:


> Just tell them the truth, that she asked for an open marriage, and that was a dealbreaker for you.


^^ This. Plain & Simple.

Its not like you are trash talking her. She asked for this, and you said no and did not want to be married to a person who would want an open marriage. Simply different values.


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## rzmpf (Mar 11, 2016)

CuriousBlue said:


> IMO, you two need to talk. You can't just split without talking. What's the harm, at that point? At least you will know what is going on, because she knows she has nothing left to lose. You'll leave if you don't know what's going on. You might leave if you Do know what's going on. She's definitely on-notice now that you've done what you've done and maybe you could reverse it, maybe not. But at least you'll know for yourself what's really happening. Maybe you'll learn from it. Maybe she'll learn from it.


He made up his mind and left. So no need to play "I might not leave if you tell me what's going on" games. Who cares what she did or is doing? Apparently he doesn't and why would he? For him the basis of his relationship is no more, details here and there won't change that so why bother with them?. He can't determine the veracity of her story anyways (or only with a lot of effort, effort he is not willing to put into it) so what's done is done. Not knowing what went or is going on is not his problem, his social circle not knowing his reasons is his problem. A problem he can solve relatively easy.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

jld said:


> Just tell them the truth, that she asked for an open marriage, and that was a dealbreaker for you.



Don't make it anything more than what jld stated.

Short, simple and to the point

If my SO came to me with this suggestion,I would be done with the marriage as well

Don't be embarrassed for having boundaries and sticking to them!


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

SD,

You got a not too uncommon load of crap when they get "restless". The default position for those who have some guilt pangs about cheating is "lets try open marriage". I can speak to your situation because my wife got herself "brainwashed" by a polyamorous couple she volunteered with ( see my profile). Like you, I took the NUCLEAR approach and had a different outcome, but if she has good friends that were "cheaters" or in an open marriage and dropped this bomb on you right before going on a girls trip, I would bet she opened your marriage before she said a word. And probably got a whole lot of encouragement from her "girlfriends". And do not be surprised if it was more than just these two. The current thought process now is "he'll get over it".

You are obviously bothered by the false narrative out there that you are the bad guy. The only way you are going to dispel that is to telll those questioning you that you did not like the idea of her having boyfriends to go out with and that is all you need to say. Then she will start to get the questions and if any of them are close enough to you that you really care, just show them the books she gave you to read.

If by some chance you do not get rid of her, you need to have her take a polygraph before you make that decision as well as jettison this entire group of girlfriends.

There is no way with a bomb like that that your trust can be restored without her PROVING she has not acted.


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## TAM2013 (Jul 15, 2013)

rzmpf said:


> .....his social circle not knowing his reasons is his problem.


He has the right to bleat it out to everyone he meets. Or to build confidence with more longevity, just give a wry smile and say nothing.


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## SDtired (Oct 11, 2016)

Thanks for all the replies.

I have told a few people the truth but these are people I trust best friend, his wife, my cousin and some other family. The other people I just say it's a private matter between my wife and me. And to be clear none of these people including her family have been mean or accused me of anything, just very pushy. Along the lines of how you could you leave her, you guys were so happy, etc . Now if I learn she's throwing me under the bus I expose the whole thing.

I'll be really honest here, my reluctance to share is more about me. I'm completely devastated by all of this and embarrassed. It cuts right to the core of my manhood that I wasn't enough for her. Of course I know in my head its about her issues but emotionally I'm gutted.

To whoever mentioned that I played along by telling I'd read the books, you're right but it was done to protect myself. With her going on vacation it gave me time and it let me keep some power. 

I have been nothing but civil with her other than the note I left and even that wasn't that hurtful.My daughter is all that matters to me and I won't let her see her parents be monsters to each other.

As for whether she cheated on the trip, I doubt it one of the women was my cousin and we are close as siblings. Whether she has in general it's 50/50 in my book. The only reason I would want to know at this point is to get tested for HIV and STDs which I plan to anyway. I'm thoroughly convinced she had someone picked out, no evidence of course but my guy says yes.

When it comes to her friends they are ****ty, mid thirties and neither has had a relationship longer than six months which always ended because of their infidelity. I never liked them but she was friends with them before me and I wouldn't expect her to give them up. It's easy to blame them but my wife listened.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

jld said:


> Just tell them the truth, that she asked for an open marriage, and that was a dealbreaker for you.


This. Truth is not slander.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

**** yeah SD, **** yeah. Seriously, you did the right thing. You know what was on her mind and you'd never be able to trust her again. I am amazed at how swift you were at this, but don't double back. You don't even have to tell people anything if they know you. 

"SD, why would you leave her? You two were perfect together."

"Don't you know I ****ing know that? What do you think, I wanted to leave the woman I love?" 

Regardless, it's your life and keep your hands around the bull's horns. Assuming you follow through completely, your story is on that should be read by many here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

SDtired said:


> Thanks for all the replies.
> 
> I'll be really honest here, my reluctance to share is more about me. I'm completely devastated by all of this and embarrassed. It cuts right to the core of my manhood that I wasn't enough for her. Of course I know in my head its about her issues but emotionally I'm gutted.


How does this cut to your core?

She thought you would be a doormat and would agree to her getting strange on the side whenever she fancied.
She thought wrong!

You immediately man'd the ef up and kicked her to the curb(as you rightly should have).

You have clear boundaries. You enforced then.

I see nothing that you should feel less a man about.

If anything - it's more.

You wife got way out of line and you enacted consequences for her actions. No crying. No begging. No negotiating. Just you are wrong for me, for marriage, for being with me one day longer.

I for one applaud you.


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## SDtired (Oct 11, 2016)

I'm a child of two parents who both cheated on each other multiple times, I suffered because of it and sure won't let that happen to my daughter. I know that's why I'm dead set in my ways. And personally open marriages are just another way to cheat. If you want to sleep with different people get a divorce and have fun. Trust me nothing will change my mind on this, I already find myself souring on things about her I used to find cute. 

It cuts to me to my core that the woman I married wasn't satisfied by me in some way. Like I said I know it's her and not me but it's hard not to take it personally.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

What has she said to you in response to all of this...has she been remorseful?


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## SDtired (Oct 11, 2016)

Xenote said:


> What has she said to you in response to all of this...has she been remorseful?


We've had two real conversations since I left. The first as the day she returned, she was hysterical and crying. She tried to claim she wasn't serious and was just was testing me. I called her out in that because she knows my opinion on infidelity and my past.

The second one was her trying to enlighten me about the benefits of these arrangements and how they make couples stronger. She even mentioned a woman at her work she thought I would like because she was a redhead. That was the first time in my life I actually wanted to punch a woman in the face.

So she has shown zero remorse.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

SDtired said:


> We've had two real conversations since I left. The first as the day she returned, she was hysterical and crying. *She tried to claim she wasn't serious and was just was testing me.* I called her out in that because she knows my opinion on infidelity and my past.
> 
> *The second one was her trying to enlighten me about the benefits of these arrangements and how they make couples stronger.* She even mentioned a woman at her work she thought I would like because she was a redhead. That was the first time in my life I actually wanted to punch a woman in the face.
> 
> So she has shown zero remorse.


See how these two conversations don't match up?

She's already cheating.

And she'd already picked someone out for you?

How considerate.

I wonder who she picked out for herself.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

CuriousBlue said:


> IMO, you two need to talk. You can't just split without talking. What's the harm, at that point? At least you will know what is going on, because she knows she has nothing left to lose. You'll leave if you don't know what's going on. You might leave if you Do know what's going on. She's definitely on-notice now that you've done what you've done and maybe you could reverse it, maybe not. But at least you'll know for yourself what's really happening. Maybe you'll learn from it. Maybe she'll learn from it.


They talked.

She told him what's been going on.

She's cheating... and there's no reversing that.

That's what he's learned from it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> See how these two conversations don't match up?
> 
> She's already cheating.
> 
> ...


I'll take a guess that her pick for herself has a higher sex rank than the one she picked for him.


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

SD,

So you have had TWO conversations regarding her "open marriage" request. They are totally contridictory and very clear on what she is up to. The first conversation she made light of it and tried to gaslight you into thinking she was kidding. Well, if she was kidding, why the hell is she doing a complete reversal in the second conversation and going back to the sell job .

Her picking a girl out for you from work makes me think the OM is her work buddy and you have a problem my friend. Actually more than one. Your gut is screaming that this work guy is way too close, probably no accident, and she still works with him and is still trying to convince you to let her do it if she has not already.

It is time for you to get serious and if you have any intentions of staying with her again you need to get a VAR in her car immediately. If you do that, my bet is you will find out the following in less than a week
(1) who the OM or potential OM is. Women do NOT have this conversation out of the blue if they do not have "something" going on. It may not be physical yet, but to take the chance on your reaction it is not just a random thought
(2) which "girlfriends" are either encouraging her, covering for her, and participating with her.

To rely on anything she tells you is foolish. She has unsuccessfully brought it up so now it will go underground, especially since she had the second conversation backtracking on her statements about it not being really serious.

You need to make it clear to her that her actions have made it impossible for you to feel safe with her and unless she can prove she has not strayed there is no reconciliation. And the "girls trips" need to end until you make a decision and get some factual answers.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

SDtired said:


> I'm a child of two parents who both cheated on each other multiple times, I suffered because of it and sure won't let that happen to my daughter. I know that's why I'm dead set in my ways. And personally open marriages are just another way to cheat. If you want to sleep with different people get a divorce and have fun. Trust me nothing will change my mind on this, I already find myself souring on things about her I used to find cute.
> 
> *It cuts to me to my core that the woman I married wasn't satisfied by me in some way.* Like I said I know it's her and not me but it's hard not to take it personally.


The bold part is what I am referring to you.

You are looking at this all wrong.

There is nothing you did wrong.

It's not that she wasn't satisfied with you. It's that she has some flaw, some mental issue, some stripped gear in her that prevents her from being capable of being faithful.

The only thing that you are guilty of is loving a broken person.

The only thing to be sad about is the fact that she took away that illusion that you fell in love with.

The thing that you should be majorly angry with is the fact that she willfully blew up the marriage, and has uprooted and destroyed the cohesive parental unit for your child.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

straightshooter said:


> SD,
> 
> So you have had TWO conversations regarding her "open marriage" request. They are totally contridictory and very clear on what she is up to. The first conversation she made light of it and tried to gaslight you into thinking she was kidding. Well, if she was kidding, why the hell is she doing a complete reversal in the second conversation and going back to the sell job .
> 
> ...



I am assuming you missed


SDtired said:


> *
> That all happened two months ago. I won't bore you with the details of all the stuff happened inbetween. The basics she was served and I offered a 50/50 split on everything. I didn't want this to get ugly. And before you ask I did a paternity test and she's mine. *


in his original post


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

*I am assuming you missed
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDtired View Post

That all happened two months ago. I won't bore you with the details of all the stuff happened inbetween. The basics she was served and I offered a 50/50 split on everything. I didn't want this to get ugly. And before you ask I did a paternity test and she's mine. 
in his original post
*

And what makes you think it is over and she will not try to lure him back????? With no explanation of what happened in between and not knowing what he knows or thinks he knows, the advice still stands.


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## SDtired (Oct 11, 2016)

Straightshooter

I appreciate what your saying and advice. Don't worry I have no intention of reconciling with her, even if I had 100% guarantee she wasn't cheating or had someone lined up. The minute she mentioned it I was done, I've said it before. If she had problems with me or the marriage jumping straight to lets screw other people as a solution shows me she has some major issues I never saw.

Malaise

I think you're talking about the attractiveness of the woman? If so she's stunning and I would guess at least ten years younger than both of us. Not that any of that matters at this point.

Snerg

I completely agree with all that, I know she's screwed up and it has nothing to do with me. But it's also a woman I built a life with, had a child and thought I would grow old with. I know I'm not to blame logically, rationally or whatever but it still hurts that's what I was saying. Don't think I regret my decision to leave one bit.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

Just curious

Did she speak to the woman at work and did she ( woman at work ) agree to it ? I wonder if it was set up and waiting for your OK.


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## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

jld said:


> Just tell them the truth, that she asked for an open marriage, and that was a dealbreaker for you.


Doesn't get any more simple than this. 

It's called "telling people the truth" and why you have such a hard time with it is beyond me. 

What are you accomplishing by keeping it to yourself?


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

SDtired said:


> Snerg
> 
> I completely agree with all that, I know she's screwed up and it has nothing to do with me. But it's also a woman I built a life with, had a child and thought I would grow old with. I know I'm not to blame logically, rationally or whatever but it still hurts that's what I was saying. Don't think I regret my decision to leave one bit.


That makes sense.

It stings to get fooled so completely like this.

You will look back at you life for a while to try to see why and how you missed the red flags.
I would say, try not to look too hard and dwell upon things you might or could have done differently . Love has a really funny way of clouding your eyes. You might even say that love was an evolutionary or biological event to ensure that we do attempt to pass on our genes. So biologically, she meet your needs as someone who you could create a healthy child with. Nothing more than that.


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

SD,

Don't beat yourself up. Quite the contrary. if you read this or another forum, you will find that this "let's try open marriage" is a pretty common default position for women who want to cheat or have already done it and have gotten caught. And there are a hell of a lot more men out there putting up with it rather than showing the strength you did than who do what you did. 

You also do not need to second guess yourself about reading the books. I did that too because i wanted to understand what lunacy was going through her mind. And in my case it was a bit of a mistake because she actually thought I was considering it because i was reading. These men who get bulldozed into this are just too unsure of themselves that they decide it is worth it to still get laid regularly even if it means sacrificing their dignity.

You can look yourself in the mirror and see one tough guy looking at you.

As long as you are still on speaking terms, you really do need to try to find out if she has the decency to tell you if she has banged anyone already so you can get medically check out correctly. And with this group of "friends", my guess is you would have had to be in CIA mode for a long time to feel safe.

Time will heal all of this. But my main point is you have nothing to be embarrassed about. If you had to explain to people why your wife was out with another man that would be something to be embarrassed about.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

jld said:


> Just tell them the truth, that she asked for an open marriage, and that was a dealbreaker for you.


First time I have ever agreed with you. :grin2:


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Sdtired, wow. Sounds like you have your s**t together. 

Like you said really doesn't matter if she has cheated or not, the intent was there.

As to your two conversations with her, they really don't line up with each other, do they.

I would let her parents know why the two of you have split. That way the healing can start. They will be part of your life, through your daughter, for many years to come hopefully. No need for them to think you abandoned their daughter to bitter the waters.

Just look after that little girl of yours.


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

ABHale said:


> Sdtired, wow. Sounds like you have your s**t together.
> 
> Like you said really doesn't matter if she has cheated or not, the intent was there.
> 
> ...


SD,

Exactly, her two conversations are totally opposite mindsets. In the first one she was treading water trying to calm you down. Her true thoughts were in the second conversation because she went right back to trying to sell you on open marriage.

Stand firm


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

@SDtired ...

Personally... I am just REALLY impressed by how you have handled this... you sound like a wonderful man and a purely monogamous one....

I, too, applaud you for your boundaries...and resolve on what you stand for. I can understand your feeling "gutted" by this.. what an awful betrayal -beings you have shared deeply with her -how you feel about any sort of infidelity, due to what you grew up with ....you trusted she was on the same page...cherishing your lives together, in tuned with the same shared values -a lasting love that embodies what marriage, the raising of children is meant to be. 

I'm afraid in today's society... more & more are making a case against monogamy...take OpenMinded.com for example, if you read this write up, I bet those books she presented were of this mindset...

I almost feel bad for her for being this stupid [email protected]# ....She'll be hard pressed, if this is the road she wants to go down, to ever find another good man like you.. she will watch your life unfold likely....only to see you go on marrying a wonderful woman and know she ruined her life... giving up the one who wanted to give her the sun, stars & moon, all of his love & devotion...and for what?


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