# Matching #'s?



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

This is purely for interesting discussion, not for any vested interest I have.

I just happened upon an article on some site (I don't even know how I got there, seriously) in which the author posits that your number does not and should not matter in any way shape or form. The comments below the article are 99% in agreement. Furthermore, a theme amongst the comments is that anybody who cares about their partners' number or cares to ask, is misogynistic and generally has the mindset of an immature teenager. This article, and the bulk of the comments, were made by adults. This wasn't a website for kids or young adults.

I've always found, especially here, that you fall into one of two camps on this subject - you are either vehemently against this information being anybody's business but your own, or you do see some sort of value from knowing this information (what you do, or what you decide with it is irrelevant, but at least you know and can make an informed decision)

I don't want to make this post about me, or what *I* think - I truly believe this is a huge gray area. I can see why it matters to some, I can see why it doesn't to others. But I will admit that I've asked, and been asked. I've also not asked, or not been asked. FWIW, I can say that I've only really "dated" 4 or 5 women in my life. 23 years of my almost 40 have been divided between two women. Just happened that way, I don't feel that I'm a serial LTR guy or anything.

That said, I do seem to have a slightly more.. sacred? view of sex than most of the people I know. And it's important to note that I've always felt this way. Even when I was a teenager, I wasn't particularly interested in casual stuff, for whatever reason. Doesn't mean it didn't happen, I just didn't chase it like most of my buddies did. I've had casual stuff and not felt any guilt. It's not a conscience thing. And I high-fived my buddies when they got lucky. It just wasn't for me, or at least to the degree that it is to others. Even post-divorce, I didn't go out and chase. I'm not religious, nor am I a prude. I also don't believe in not having pre-marital sex, or even casual relationships - within reason. I don't have a number that is "too high", but that said, it's all contextual, imo. In other words I don't necessarily have a problem, per se, with somebody's number.

Here's where I'm really going to get jumped on: it's not so much the number that matters as it is the context in which that number was (or wasn't) achieved. To me, it's a very general (not always accurate) indicator of mental state, togetherness and over all happiness with one's self. These things are fluid throughout somebody's life, of course.

I will tell you my hard and fast "rule" that I have come to live by over my almost 40 years - the number doesn't matter - provided your potential partner is not still adding to that number by the time you meet.

Usually, people tend to grow out of things like casual sex and NSA relationships. Those things are about finding oneself, experimenting and, yes, self esteem and confidence. 9 times out of 10 (including for men) they are not purely about sex. It is about feeling wanted, or a confidence boost, that sort of thing. People who get divorced tend to go through little periods of that, too, just to build themselves back up again. So it's not necessarily an age thing.

My rule has little to do with sex, and much much more to do with "is that person ready (or suitable) for a relationship?

Say I frequent a bar with my buddies, and a woman who is there frequently catches my eye and I'm interested. I may try to get to know her better and eventually ask her out. If she volunteers that she has had x-number of partners, I may not bat an eyelash. If she volunteers that every two weeks for the last 6 months that she's been coming to this bar, she's gone home with a different partner, then I would.

I don't believe in the labels "****" or "*****" (used to describe both men AND women). I would not sit there and judge this person for her actions, past or present. However, it would be a good indicator that she doesn't "have it together" at that particular moment, and therefore my interest in her would be lost. If I didn't know this information, then I do not feel that I would be making a fully informed decision on whether this person might make a suitable partner or not - at that particular time, that is.

Therefore, my stance is that it is not an entirely unsuitable question to ask a person whom you are interested in pursuing a relationship with. I think that both parties are correct, the number doesn't matter, but it also does, provided the context is given as well. "I've slept with 30 people, but 28 of them were 15-20 years ago" versus "I've slept with 30 people, but all of them have been in the last year".

I'm not entirely certain why people are so reluctant or feel completely invaded if/when somebody - a potential partner - brings this subject up. Own it, I say. Like it or not, it is an important piece of information to have when looking for a potential mate. It's not the number, it's the context. You can just as easily avoid this information altogether and be a perfectly good match - it is not something one MUST know. But if a person feels it's important enough to ask about, then what's the big deal? The one being asked that question can use that to their benefit, too, in terms of whether or not this person is a good match for them.

I guess I'm just not sure why some people feel so violated when this question comes up. Thoughts?


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

are you trying to say you walk up to women in bars and ask how many sex partners they had?

yeah, good luck with that.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

murphy5 said:


> are you trying to say you walk up to women in bars and ask how many sex partners they had?
> 
> yeah, good luck with that.


Um, no. And I don't suggest that anybody does, either.

Purely an example I was trying to make that if one has this information given to them early on in the "getting to know you" stage, that it could help you determine if he/she is a suitable match.

Certainly not as an ice-breaker, though.

I will tell you, of the 5 relationships (that were not casual) that I've had in my life, 1 asked me, and also volunteered her information; 1, I brought it up (and she wasn't happy); 2 just came up in casual conversation and neither of us seemed to care; and 1 it just didn't come up at all, ever.

In my defense (?), the one case in which I brought it up (my current wife), we had known each other years and years ago, and dated back then, too. We were both virgins at that time. Reconnecting after many years, I thought it wasn't totally out of bounds to bring that subject up, partially out of curiosity, partially out of a misguided attempt (I admit now) to see which path she want in life. She was not happy.


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## Rottdad42 (Nov 26, 2012)

I'm in the camp don't ask don't tell. Not a prude an won't judge lest ye be judged. My wife seems to think I have slept with a lot women. Her words are you are good looking and I have seen the way woman look at you blah blah. I would ask her define "a lot". Over 30, my answer would be no I think you are kind of off about that number. I think in some respects the context is important, rather than amount. Kind of tells you where their mind is at. That being said, I would rather not know. Being oblivious about it seems to make easier to exist, rather than feeling like you married a s***. for me suck feeling.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

What I find interesting are the cases where one partner is reluctant, refuses, is offended at the "numbers" type discussions with their partner, yet still talk about and reminisce with others about their past experiences. More of a selective "don't ask, don't tell." Then falling back on the "but it's in the past."

That does not surprise me though because that is a fairly common general mindset in many relationships. Treating others, complete strangers sometimes better that their partner.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I guess I don't see why it matters to any of US as individuals what OTHER people do in this regard. We ask or don't ask, as we see fit and for our own reasons...but if other people ask or don't ask, who cares?


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## Arrag (Jul 30, 2014)

AlexM, let me first of all say what a well written OP you have here. You in one post diffused the initial objections that many bring up on this topic. It has been MY experience, that people with higher numbers especially if they are recent, make less stable LTR partners. They are typically looking to fill a void in their lives with sex. In my last relationship this was the case, and they were unable to continue that momentum even though we were extremely highly compatible in almost all departments. That internal void won over our relationship. But I was somewhat prepared for this outcome as we had discussed the numbers topic, so although I was saddened by the outcome, it wasn't a surprise to me.

I'm pretty good in this area, not to toot my own horn, and I didn't get to be a home run hitter without swinging for the fences so to say. My past sexual experiences make me what I am today, but and see here is where I think it makes a difference from one individual to the next, I molded them they don't mold me. I'm still a very spiritual and monogamously rooted individual, that's what I am, that's what I seek. Does that mean that I'll find someone who is on that same page? That's the end goal but I might not get it right on the first try. So in closing I wouldn't have any problem talking about "numbers" as I have no shame, nor guilt about it, and I truly believe it makes me who and what I am today, as I believe it makes all others what they are today, and if one is so ashamed of it they are not willing to talk about it, there's probably underlying reasons other than sex that they are worried about exposing. Sex is just the results of those issues, not the source.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Great OP.

My thoughts, it's an interesting puzzle. I will admit there is a limit for the number of past partners someone has had before it bothers me, but what that limit is I don't know. My current partner, she has had 15 sexual partners in her life including me and I'm ok with that, especially since most of those were when she was a teenager or during a brief period in her life following her divorce. Her friend that she used to hang with during those same teenage years however built up a much higher number. My partner doesn't know exactly how many men she was with but figures it has to be over 100 and estimated it at around 120-130. While the majority of those were during her teens and early 20's as well, if I knew I was dating someone that had been with that many men, I likely would break it off.

Is that fair? Maybe, maybe not. I do agree with the OP that it can dictate behaviour, but for me it more or less dictates that if she can have that many men, maybe she doesn't view sex as something special or even important. I don't believe you should 'save yourself for the right person,' in fact I'd argue strongly against waiting until marriage to have sex, but 120+ partners seems to be overkill and makes me question why there was a need to drop your pants everytime someone winked at you.

My partner still keeps in touch with her from time to time and told me a few months ago that her friend, who is now married with kids btw, is strongly considering an affair with a co-worker. She even said it's no fault of her husband, she's just looking for something different, so it makes me question if someone who viewed sex so liberally in the past can fully change enough to be committed in the future. I know, it's only one example and I'm sure some people can change but it does give me reason to pause and think long and hard before pursuing a relationship.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

alexm said:


> This is purely for interesting discussion, not for any vested interest I have.
> 
> I just happened upon an article on some site (I don't even know how I got there, seriously) in which the author posits that your number does not and should not matter in any way shape or form. The comments below the article are 99% in agreement. Furthermore,* a theme amongst the comments is that anybody who cares about their partners' number or cares to ask, is misogynistic and generally has the mindset of an immature teenager. This article, and the bulk of the comments, were made by adults. This wasn't a website for kids or young adults*.


 Had to laugh at this part...this makes ME a misognistic women then......Not at all surprising someone is taking it to this level... I've seen similar articles.. if a man has more conservative sexual views, he apparently hates women.... why -because he needs to accept the fact single women are sexual and will F*** whomever she wants , whenever she wants and for whatever reason she wants... add >> without judgement.. this is getting with the new program, how many times have I heard "this is 20__ not the 1940's)... and after all - Men can get away with it...

but really NOT ALL MEN ARE LIKE THAT.. what about them.....

Can I google this article? ..curious to read it...

I feel the way you THINK & have laid out here to be very balanced .. many would view this through similar eyes...it's a very







topic...and many will be forum slapped for saying it MATTERS to them...then the "insecure" labeling/ belittling begins.. always.. another tactic to shut the other down....and silence them, like you are more "manly" somehow to not care ... all because she has may have experienced bigger & better... 

My husband would be FAR more of a misogynist (according to that writer)...even in his younger yrs.. when he whacked it up to 5 times a day (Horny for sure!)..he's told me he could not have been with a woman he was not in love with, it's just not in him to do that....for him, sex is very special.. reserved for those you deeply love ....it comes with commitment ...so it would make sense those who engaged in a # of casual encounters... it wouldn't be a good match for someone like him... 

So to label men like this...who respect women for wanting to wait for Love/ some boundaries in dating/ Sex.....a woman hater.. that's outrageous !!

How we view sex and it's meaning to us is a very BIG part of who we are.. as in all things.. where we have been does have it's own story.. to why we feel as strongly as we do.. 

I couldn't be with a man who wasn't open to talk about this.. I could get over one who has a more colorful past.. but only if we were in agreement and flowing in what sex meant to me ...in the here & now...and my having enough of an emotional connection to TRUST where he was (that would not happen fast or on the 3rd date I'll tell you!)....or it just wouldn't be working for me.

If sex means more to one person over the other.. too often heartbreak will follow shortly behind...


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Had to laugh at this part...this makes ME a misognistic women then......Not at all surprising someone is taking it to this level... I've seen similar articles.. if a man has more conservative sexual views, he apparently hates women.... why -because he needs to accept the fact single women are sexual and will F*** whomever she wants , whenever she wants and for whatever reason she wants... add >> without judgement.. this is getting with the new program, how many times have I heard "this is 20__ not the 1940's)... and after all - Men can get away with it...
> 
> but really NOT ALL MEN ARE LIKE THAT.. what about them.....
> 
> ...



SA I wouldn't bother googling a article that blanket claims men are
misognistic because they care about numbers lol. It's to ridiculous to take seriously. 

If people don't care they shouldn't ask. I have friends like this. They have both never shared their numbers with each other but they have with me. So in a way I know something more about each of them then they do. They are ok with this. I would not be. But they don't want to ever know and that works for them so I don't judge.

I for one need open, honest, direct, communication in a relationship. If I feel a woman is someone I want to spend my life with I want to know everything about them. I want them to know everything about me....the good and the bad.

For a guy I have a relatively small number and have a conservative view of sex, I prefer to date women who also are similar to me in that respect. But while having a number slightly higher than me isn't an automatic deal breaker the inability or unwillingness to discuss such things is.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> My partner still keeps in touch with her from time to time and told me a few months ago that her friend, who is now married with kids btw, is strongly considering an affair with a co-worker. *She even said it's no fault of her husband, she's just looking for something different, so it makes me question if someone who viewed sex so liberally in the past can fully change enough to be committed in the future*. I know, it's only one example and I'm sure some people can change but it does give me reason to pause and think long and hard before pursuing a relationship.


Just as many people cheat who have only had sex with their spouse and no one else, making others question if not having enough sexual experimentation before marriage is what caused them to cheat.

It is well documented that a large percentage of both men and women cheat, while the average number of partners are really quite small (compared to the example woman you gave) for all those average cheaters.

In my experience, people who feel they have a more "sacred" view of sex are many times using their own feelings as a reason to project judgmental attitudes about others who don't have the same feelings.

From the Kinsey institute:

Number of Partners

Males 30-44 report an average of 6-8 female sexual partners in their lifetime (Mosher, Chandra, & Jones, 2005).
Females 30-44 report an average of 4 male sexual partners in their lifetime (Mosher, Chandra, & Jones, 2005).
3% of men have had zero sexual partners since the age of 18, 20% have had 1 partner, 21% have had 2-4 partners, 23% have had 5-10 partners, 16% have had 11-20 partners, and 17% have had 21 or more partners (Laumann, Gagnon, Michael, Michaels, 1994).
3% of women have had zero sexual partners since the age of 18, 31% have had 1 partner, 36% have had 2-4 partners, 20% have had 5-10 partners, 6% have had 11-20 partners, and 3% have had 21 or more partners (Laumann, Gagnon, Michael, Michaels, 1994).
20% of American men and 31% of American women have had one sex partner in their lifetime (Laumann, Gagnon, Michael, Michaels, 1994).
56% of American men and 30% of American women have had 5 or more sex partners in their lifetime (Laumann, Gagnon, Michael, Michaels, 1994).


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Numbers - relative or absolute - didn't matter to us. Over time, we probably talked about all our past relationships and partners when something reminded us about a past experience, say, or if a topic of conversation could be better understood by adding in a past experience. We didn't have to mention the past, but were comfortable doing so. There was nothing to hide, and nothing we needed to know either.

As it turned out, our numbers were similar, but some of our experiences were quite different. That didn't matter at all, probably because at that moment in time we were highly compatible and seeking the same things.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I think it does matter in two ways. 

First, and most commonly, people need to pair up with compatible partners. While a person's sexual past is not the only factor, it is an important indicator of several aspects of their relationship template. It indicates something about their values and their attitudes.

Which is not to condemn either high or low numbers. As someone said, context is critically important, too. in a general way I think it being in the same ballpark gives a sense of comfort that both people have similar values and attitudes. Being in the same ballpark will help both partners understand the others' viewpoint on various issues current and past.

Someone who has a very sacred view of sex is probably not going to be compatible with someone with a very casual view of sex. Neither view is necessarily better, but the combination together is headed for some big conflicts.

In addition, it is indicative of a difference in a deep belief system if one person holds the number important and the other believes it is an off-limits topic even within a serious relationship.

The second time numbers are important is when one person is zero and the other is not. Again, this is not putting a value judgment on either side of the divide. It is without a doubt a huge psychological divide. I have seen numerous marriages where this has become a big contributor or multiplier to other problems.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Wolf1974 said:


> *I for one need open, honest, direct, communication in a relationship. If I feel a woman is someone I want to spend my life with I want to know everything about them. I want them to know everything about me....the good and the bad.*


Yes....the good, the bad...the ugly, sharing our highest highs, our lowest lows...as the foundation of trust grows.. in time our greatest fears....insecurities...our spouse should be our #1 fan...if they can not accept Us ..from where we have come from (whatever that story is)... what we've learned along the way....then we should not be with them anyway...

If we really don't care, we need to mean that, make no assumptions about it either...it just seems too many go in...then are met with shattered trust down the road, feeling blindsided ..maybe a slip of the tongue of an old friend, a little drunk...it's happened...

I'm into getting as deep as one possibly can get with someone you plan to spend the rest of your life with, have babies with , wake up to every morning & plan to rock in those rocking chairs with at the end of our lives....

I wouldn't feel it would be right if a friend or relative knew MORE about us over the one we commit our lives to, walk down the aisle with, and are united as "ONE" with...


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

alexm said:


> It's not the number, it's the context.


But it IS the number. That's what you've made this entire post about.

Also, if I just met someone and they start asking me about past lovers, that is freaking weird.



murphy5 said:


> are you trying to say you walk up to women in bars and ask how many sex partners they had?
> 
> yeah, good luck with that.


:rofl:


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

alexm said:


> Say I frequent a bar with my buddies, and a woman who is there frequently catches my eye and I'm interested. I may try to get to know her better and eventually ask her out.
> 
> I don't believe in the labels "****" or "*****" (used to describe both men AND women). I would not sit there and judge this person for her actions, past or present. However, it would be a good indicator that she doesn't "have it together" at that particular moment, and therefore my interest in her would be lost.
> 
> Therefore, my stance is that it is not an entirely unsuitable question to ask a person whom you are interested in pursuing a relationship with.


Well, you'd be hard-pressed to find any woman who is going to tell you that when you just met them! Ta is a really invasive question if two people are just enjoying a drink at the bar and don't know each other from anyone else.

But, to surmise: You would not be ok with it if bar-girl did not tell you about her #. 

Solution: don't date her and find someone else at the bar who tells who you their #. You will be more compatible, per your words.

I personally do not ask people I am dating how many women they have slept with. i do not care to know about their past lovers. Major relationships, yes (like a marriage or LTR). But I don't ask about every single person they have slept with because quite frankly, I really do not want to know.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Thor said:


> I think it does matter in two ways.
> 
> First, and most commonly, people need to pair up with compatible partners. While a person's sexual past is not the only factor, it is an important indicator of several aspects of their relationship template. It indicates something about their values and their attitudes.


How does knowing a number help you in determining compatibility more than just being together and experiencing life together does? 

A person's past shapes who they are today, but you have the "results" right in front of you, so what does the exact number tell you more than what you actually experience of and with that person?



> Which is not to condemn either high or low numbers. As someone said, context is critically important, too. in a general way *I think it being in the same ballpark gives a sense of comfort that both people have similar values and attitudes.* Being in the same ballpark will help both partners understand the others' viewpoint on various issues current and past.


I wouldn't bet on that, personally. A 35 year old divorcee who married young and only had his/her spouse as a partner might have the exact same values as a 30 year old who didn't find "the one" right away and had a dozen sexual experiences on the way to finding "the one." 



> Someone who has a very sacred view of sex is probably not going to be compatible with someone with a very casual view of sex. Neither view is necessarily better, but the combination together is headed for some big conflicts.


Again, isn't this something you can discover without a discussion of exact numbers? Surely you can figure out if a person has a sacred or casual view of sex just by being with them for more than a couple of dates.



> In addition, it is indicative of a difference in a deep belief system if one person holds the number important and the other believes it is an off-limits topic even within a serious relationship.


Yes, that is telling. In my experience, the guys who ask this question and are really keen to get the answer tend to be people I don't want to date even though my "number" is within their parameters of "oh, good, she's not a wh*re."

YMMV.



> The second time numbers are important is when one person is zero and the other is not. Again, this is not putting a value judgment on either side of the divide. It is without a doubt a huge psychological divide. I have seen numerous marriages where this has become a big contributor or multiplier to other problems.


Yeah, this is a whole other ball of wax, bringing in all kinds of anxiety, jealousy, envy, self-esteem issues, and "damn, should have sown my wild oats before but now I'm married to a wh*re who did, but I can't."


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

norajane said:


> How does knowing a number help you in determining compatibility more than just being together and experiencing life together does?


:iagree:

Whether a man I am with has slept with 5 women or 50 women does not have speak to well we communicate, if we meet each others' needs, if we are sexually compatible in bed, if we have a healthy relationship, if we have chemistry, genuinely like each other or if our relationship is full of love/trust/respect/admiration for one another.



norajane said:


> Yes, that is telling. In my experience, the guys who ask this question and are really keen to get the answer tend to be people I don't want to date *even though my "number" is within their parameters of "oh, good, she's not a wh*re."*


:rofl:


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Example (from one side):

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/211450-cant-finish-sex.html

He hasn't had a lot of sexual partners.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good afternoon all
I don't care at all about a partner's "number". I do care about sexual compatibility, but a number may have nothing to do with that. People change over time and in different situations.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Just as many people cheat who have only had sex with their spouse and no one else, making others question if not having enough sexual experimentation before marriage is what caused them to cheat.
> 
> It is well documented that a large percentage of both men and women cheat, while the average number of partners are really quite small (compared to the example woman you gave) for all those average cheaters.


Agreed. I'm not comparing, I'm simply answering his question about the volume of partners.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> Agreed. I'm not comparing, I'm simply answering his question about the volume of partners.


Your judgement about why the lady with the high numbers cheated was part of answer the original question? :scratchhead:

It sounded instead like "wh*res like her with high numbers will cheat"...and you think you're not comparing?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Wh*res! I say!

Because SCIENCE!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Sorry, too easy, FW.


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## YummyGirl (Jul 23, 2014)

For the record, I love this thread and it's a welcome distraction from my current issues. 

You're talking about one's MAGIC number--at least, that's what my friends and I have always called it. Here are my thoughts:

*I don't understand why women get offended by this question. The number doesn't make you a prude or a sl*t; it's just a number. 
*I don't understand why men lie about the number. I once had a man tell me he slept with eight women (the truth). When he heard my number (higher than his), he quickly changed his answer. Like I would believe him? Come on. I wasn't judging him either way. Silly man.
*While I don't think it's an appropriate question to ask on a first date, I think it's okay to ask. It's a good gauge of someone's experience with different people and maybe that's all and nothing more. Quantity certainly doesn't indicate quality. 
*People with vastly different numbers can make good matches. I have a friend who is engaged to the first man she has ever been with. Her number: 1. His number: 200+. No exaggeration. She doesn't care because she's a scientist. She fell so madly in love with him that as soon as his labs for STDs came up negative (and she was worried), she slept with him. They've been together for eight years and engaged since 2012. 
*If you play safely (e.g., use condoms, no photos--including sexting) and choose your partners wisely (e.g., no lunatics, stalkers), then the number shouldn't matter. Now that being said, my husband and I have the exact same number. Pure coincidence though. We reviewed all of our sexual partners before we got married. It was an interesting exercise, but we are weird in that way. I still have the sheet with his list of partners. 

~YG


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

YummyGirl said:


> *I don't understand why women get offended by this question. The number doesn't make you a prude or a sl*t; it's just a number.


Women get offended because they are often judged by the men who ask. 

No, a number doesn't make you a prude or a sl*t; nevertheless, you are judged as one anyway.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Your judgement about why the lady with the high numbers cheated was part of answer the original question? :scratchhead:
> 
> It sounded instead like "wh*res like her with high numbers will cheat"...and you think you're not comparing?


The OP asked if the number of partners a person has could impact your feelings about being in a long-term relationship. We are all different, we are all going to use our own personal situations to base our opinions on, I stated that yes, it could impact my view on a persons suitability for me as a partner if they have a very large number of partners and gave an example on why.

I also never stated she cheated. She said she was considering cheating and I explained why she was considering to cheat. This explanation comes from her, from her own lips, not something I guessed at or supposed based on hearsay. 

As I said further in my post "I know, it's only one example and I'm sure some people can change but it does give me reason to pause and think long and hard before pursuing a relationship," so it's not about multiple people, its about one example, the one I am familiar with.

Stop reading a post for the one line you get angered at and read it all for its full context. A woman who has a high number of partners would give me reason to pause, not because she is some "wh*re" -as you put it, not me- but because (and again I quote from my post) " it more or less dictates that if she can have that many men, maybe she doesn't view sex as something special or even important."

I view sex as important, very important in a relationship. I don't want to be with someone who potentially views sex as something that is trivial and can be had with anyone. If I were single right now and started dating someone I would expect them to have had a partner, perhaps several partners, maybe even a few dozen partners. As I said in my post "I don't believe you should 'save yourself for the right person,' in fact I'd argue strongly against waiting until marriage to have sex," so go, have some fun. When it is that much fun though, I question what the long-term implications could be. Does she get bored easily? Does she need a lot of change in the sex life in order to want to have sex? We can only judge based on what we know.

This goes both ways, if I was a woman I'd have issues with a perspective male partner having 120+ sexual partners as well. If you are comfortable with it, kudos to you I guess, but I am not and I am perfectly fine with not being comfortable with it either.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I actually don't and wouldn't get offended by a man asking me this number (though none ever have)...yet I do think it is offensive when people judge others based on the number, which we see here all the time. Actually even just the ACTS a woman may have done with another partner are used to judge women here, if that act isn't also done with her current partner.

Again I think it is up to each of us to ask or not ask and use our own personal criteria for mate selection. I also totally honor the people who want to only want to be with a virgin or someone with very low numbers. But when the same person goes on about how their criteria applies to total strangers, then they are just being judgmental. If someone's sex life has NOTHING to do with YOU (ie: this applies to every person on earth except the very few you will be in a relationship or have sex with) then why are you discussing what this stranger's number "means"?


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## YummyGirl (Jul 23, 2014)

norajane said:


> Women get offended because they are often judged by the men who ask.
> 
> No, a number doesn't make you a prude or a sl*t; nevertheless, you are judged as one anyway.


Any man who asks me my number and then has the gall to judge me for my truthful response deserves a kick in the balls. I don't give a**holes like that the time of day. 
But seriously, I stand by my number, and I can't remember experiencing judgment. I am neither proud nor ashamed of my magic number; it just is. I'm glad I sowed my wild oats in college. Don't regret a minute of it.
~YG


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> As I said further in my post "I know, it's only one example and I'm sure some people can change but it does give me reason to pause and think long and hard before pursuing a relationship," *so it's not about multiple people, its about one example, the one I am familiar with.*
> 
> Stop reading a post for the one line you get angered at and read it all for its full context. A woman who has a high number of partners would give me reason to pause, not because she is some "wh*re" -as you put it, not me- but because (and again I quote from my post) " it more or less dictates that if she can have that many men, maybe she doesn't view sex as something special or even important."


Please don't assume I'm "angry" just because I disagree. There's no reason for you to go down that path just to make your point. I can make my points too, and I don't assume you're angry just because you may disagree.

Why would the example you gave be a woman who was not ever on your radar as a sex partner?

Again...what does the number of a woman who you will never have sex with have to do with any of this, if not just for being judgmental?

If you don't see yourself doing this, no problem. But it is obvious in the reading of it. Again, I'm not angry, I'm just pointing it out.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> Nut when the same person goes on about how their criteria applies to total strangers, then they are just being judgmental.


That's what I mean. I would never ask some random stranger I just met in a bar what their # is. That is weird to me.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> That's what I mean. I would never ask some random stranger I just met in a bar what their # is. That is weird to me.


IDK, it might work better than,

jb: “Do you like whales?”

Guy: “Sure.”

jb: “Wanna humpback at your place then?”

But seriously, the past is the past, whatever.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Please don't assume I'm "angry" just because I disagree. There's no reason for you to go down that path just to make your point. I can make my points too, and I don't assume you're angry just because you may disagree.
> 
> Why would the example you gave be a woman who was not ever on your radar as a sex partner?
> 
> ...


Obvious to you perhaps, but then again you are simply judging my posts from your own view, from your own experiences. So am I 'doing this' or are you simply believing I am based on those experiences?

That's my whole point. We can only use what we have experienced and learned to guide us. I don't judge women that have that high of a number, I simply accept the fact that there could be reasons for this high of a number and I don't want to spend the time finding out what that reason(s) is. I know she could be the sweetest little angel ever to grace this earth but to me a large number gives me pause for caution and I'd rather look for someone who doesn't have as high of a number. I don't berate her for sleeping with 120 men or 12,000 men, its her life so do what you want. It just isn't for me.

The reason I used that women as an example is because (A) I have not had a partner with what I consider to be to high of a number of partners for my liking and (B) She is someone who I am somewhat familiar with as a case to use. Putting a face to the number so to speak. She's just an example I used to explain my point.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

CharlieParker said:


> IDK, it might work better than,
> 
> jb: “Do you like whales?”
> 
> ...


Thank you. I now have a new pick up line. :smthumbup:


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> I guess I don't see why it matters to any of US as individuals what OTHER people do in this regard. We ask or don't ask, as we see fit and for our own reasons...but if other people ask or don't ask, who cares?


It does seem to be repeatedly brought up because of a specific type of thread. One where somebody finds out later that their spouse lied to them early in the relationship. Then when they come here seeking advice, those that hold the view that they should call the past the past attack the OP for holding those views and ignore the lie.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> The reason I used that women as an example is because (A) I have not had a partner with what I consider to be to high of a number of partners for my liking and (B) She is someone who I am somewhat familiar with as a case to use. Putting a face to the number so to speak. *She's just an example I used to explain my point*.


But wasn't your point about YOUR choices for a partner? Meanwhile, this woman was never a sexual or romantic prospect for you. So why was she an example of your point? You specifically used an example of a woman with a high number to make, what point exactly?


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> But wasn't your point about YOUR choices for a partner? Meanwhile, this woman was never a sexual or romantic prospect for you. So why was she an example of your point? You specifically used an example of a woman with a high number to make, what point exactly?


Wow. 

SHE was an example because I was explaining what I'd do if I was single and I became possibly involved in a relationship with her on some level. If she was a potential choice for a partner, this is what I would wonder about. 

The thread was started by a poster asking how a high number impacts you, hence why I used someone with a high number. Did this really need explaining?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> Wow.
> 
> SHE was an example because I was explaining what I'd do if I was single and I became possibly involved in a relationship with her on some level. If she was a potential choice for a partner, this is what I would wonder about.
> 
> The thread was started by a poster asking how a high number impacts you, hence why I used someone with a high number. Did this really need explaining?


You aren't getting my point, yet others are, so you can save the sarcasm, as what I'm getting at doesn't need further explanation to others even though it does to you.

So one more time: why would you use a woman who was never a sexual or romantic prospect for you as an example of "why you need to know a woman's number"? From your replies I'm getting that you are basically saying "because there are women with high numbers out there somewhere in the world, like this example, I would have to be mighty careful in picking partners"...which to me reads the same as "I judge people who I will never be romantic with about their number even though it has nothing to do with me".

And also one more time: my point is, talking about any person's number who will NEVER be a sexual partner to you and what that number "means" is just being judgmental.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> Wow.
> 
> SHE was an example because I was explaining what I'd do if I was single and I became *possibly involved in a relationship* with her on some level. If she was *a potential choice* for a partner, this is what I would wonder about.
> 
> The thread was started by a poster asking how a high number impacts you, hence why I used someone with a high number. Did this really need explaining?





Faithful Wife said:


> You aren't getting my point, yet others are, so you can save the sarcasm, as what I'm getting at doesn't need further explanation to others even though it does to you.
> 
> So one more time: why would you use a woman who was never a sexual or romantic prospect for you as an example of "why you need to know a woman's number"? From your replies I'm getting that you are basically saying "because there are women with high numbers out there somewhere in the world, like this example, I would have to be mighty careful in picking partners"...which to me reads the same as "I judge people who *I will never be romantic with* about their number even though it has nothing to do with me".
> 
> And also one more time: my point is, talking about any person's number who *will NEVER be a sexual partner* to you and what that number "means" is just being judgmental.


Not sure I am following the disconnect here...


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> You aren't getting my point, yet others are, so you can save the sarcasm, as what I'm getting at doesn't need further explanation to others even though it does to you.
> 
> So one more time: why would you use a woman who was never a sexual or romantic prospect for you as an example of "why you need to know a woman's number"? From your replies I'm getting that you are basically saying "because there are women with high numbers out there somewhere in the world, like this example, I would have to be mighty careful in picking partners"...which to me reads the same as "I judge people who I will never be romantic with about their number even though it has nothing to do with me".
> 
> And also one more time: my point is, talking about any person's number who will NEVER be a sexual partner to you and what that number "means" is just being judgmental.


I'd venture sarcasm is needed as that seems to be all you can get.

I'm not explaining myself further. I have answered this question ad naseum throughout this thread. I have NOT had a partner with said number, so I used one who did have that number as a reference. If that can't be grasped, then we are simply to far apart in our realms of understanding. I don't judge those who have a high number that I will never be romantic with because I flat out don't care what their number is. I care about who I am with. Just because I used one woman I have not, nor ever will be with as a reference means nothing to anyone but you. I don't really care how many guys she's been with, will be with or anything else. I would care IF I was ever to consider dating her. 

If you can't wrap your mind around what I am saying by this point then that's your issue. I'm done defending myself with you. I have nothing to defend myself for.

Honestly FW, I really like what you post and agree with a lot of what you say but having a discussion with you is often extremely exhausting.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> I'd venture sarcasm is needed as that seems to be all you can get.
> 
> I'm not explaining myself further. I have answered this question ad naseum throughout this thread. I have NOT had a partner with said number, so I used one who did have that number as a reference. If that can't be grasped, then we are simply to far apart in our realms of understanding. I don't judge those who have a high number that I will never be romantic with because I flat out don't care what their number is. I care about who I am with. Just because I used one woman I have not, nor ever will be with as a reference means nothing to anyone but you. I don't really care how many guys she's been with, will be with or anything else. I would care IF I was ever to consider dating her.
> 
> ...


So what I am hearing is that numbers don't matter to you if they are not a romantic prospect, BUT...

If she IS a romantic prospect for you, then you do care about numbers?


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

Does it matter at first? No, not to me. Does it matter enough that I'd need to find out before I was going to take them serious or the relationship serious? Absolutely.

It mattered to me, matters to me, and I couldn't see myself being in love and not wanting to know that person's history. I was a history major in college, so I am not picking and choosing here. I like to know the history of things, and that includes my significant other. How could I ever know someone and not know their history? 

I wouldn't go to a museum and just admire the beauty. I like to know the history behind the art. But I do understand how some people just aren't interested. I barely do anything without finding more information about it. With something as important as the rest of my life? Yes, the history is important.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Coldie said:


> Does it matter at first? No, not to me. Does it matter enough that I'd need to find out before I was going to take them serious or the relationship serious? Absolutely.
> 
> It mattered to me, matters to me, and I couldn't see myself being in love and not wanting to know that person's history. I was a history major in college, so I am not picking and choosing here. I like to know the history of things, and that includes my significant other. How could I ever know someone and not know their history?
> 
> I wouldn't go to a museum and just admire the beauty. I like to know the history behind the art. But I do understand how some people just aren't interested. I barely do anything without finding more information about it. With something as important as the rest of my life? Yes, the history is important.


Is knowing the history just pure intellectual curiosity, or is it used as part of your decision making process with regards to them as a suitable partner?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I'm clear on what you are saying, Kingsfan....you just don't get what I'm saying apparently. Never asked you to further explain or "defend" yourself. And I enjoy your posts, too...I just don't like broad judgmental attitudes about these topics, and whether you see that in yourself or not (on this thread) it is quite clear to me.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

norajane said:


> How does knowing a number help you in determining compatibility more than just being together and experiencing life together does?
> 
> A person's past shapes who they are today, but you have the "results" right in front of you, so what does the exact number tell you more than what you actually experience of and with that person?
> 
> ...


My first response is that I am talking in generalities.

So, knowing a number will give some idea but not an entire picture of the person's attitudes, beliefs, and moralities regarding sex and relationships. For example, someone with over 100 partners will almost certainly have different ideas about sex and relationships than someone with 3. Being in the same ballpark means it is likely there are shared values and attitudes. While no guarantee that there is a match or not, it is one way to evaluate compatibility.

Yes you have a person in front of you to evaluate in real time, but knowing their past can usually tell you a lot about them. It can be a good thing, too, such as the person telling you how they've grown, changed, and learned from previous experiences. Someone who is a virgin at 30 is a red flag just as much as someone whose number is 30 by age 18 is a red flag. But either of those situations might have spurred personal growth and now the person is far healthier than average.

Sometimes people lie, sometimes people set out to deceive, sometimes people hide who they really are. The person who wh0res around for 10 years before getting married is a statistically higher risk for many things. Diseases, infertility, emotional issues, and future infidelity are all higher risk with higher numbers of partners.

Knowing the entirety of a person's history puts it all into perspective. I think this applies in all areas, not just sex. Marriages between similar people have a better chance of being happy than when there are significant differences in values or attitudes.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

CharlieParker said:


> It's not a problem for us and never was. She had a huge number and mine was zero.


I've seen you post about this before. You're an unusual case! There are numerous real life couples I know where this is a problem.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

norajane said:


> Women get offended because they are often judged by the men who ask.
> 
> No, a number doesn't make you a prude or a sl*t; nevertheless, you are judged as one anyway.


Absolutely I am in full judgement on any woman I would consider as my LTR, wife and or step mom to my kids. Doesn't mean that person is wrong or right, good or bad, just different values is all.

Any person, man or woman, should be allowed to seek and have the criteria they deem important in a relationship.


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## BradWesley (May 24, 2013)

norajane said:


> Women get offended because they are often judged by the men who ask.
> 
> No, a number doesn't make you a prude or a sl*t; nevertheless, you are judged as one anyway.


Reverse the rolls here and change the sl*t to animal, and it would apply to me. 

I knew my first wife was a virgin. As we became serious she asked if I was a virgin. I said no, and no further questions were asked.

Had she known that I had had sex with almost 200 women up till that time , would it have been a deal breaker for her? 

You bet it would have been.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Soooooooooooo..... does anyone ask for IQ's? Some might consider that more important. 

To me, the number of partners is no better or worse than....."Do you like carrots?"


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

I actually never asked my wife about her past partners when we were dating. She was previously married and I guessed at the time had probably has 10 ish partners. Later I would learn that the actual number was closer to 25. But to me, how many men she has had sexual relations with is not my concern as long as she stays faithful to me for as long as we are together. 

As for me, my number remains at one. I was a virgin when we met and have only ever been with her.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Wolf1974 said:


> SA I wouldn't bother googling a article that blanket claims men are
> misognistic because they care about numbers lol. It's to ridiculous to take seriously.


It wasn't the article that stated that, it was the comments from readers that followed.

And it was a very non-sexist (in my view) article, neither discussing men, nor women. It was just about the topic at hand.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Had to laugh at this part...this makes ME a misognistic women then......Not at all surprising someone is taking it to this level... I've seen similar articles.. if a man has more conservative sexual views, he apparently hates women.... why -because he needs to accept the fact single women are sexual and will F*** whomever she wants , whenever she wants and for whatever reason she wants... add >> without judgement.. this is getting with the new program, how many times have I heard "this is 20__ not the 1940's)... and after all - Men can get away with it...
> 
> but really NOT ALL MEN ARE LIKE THAT.. what about them.....
> 
> ...


I can't for the life of me remember where I read it, even though it was just last week... As I said, I was just surfing, one page to the next, and I happened upon it. It was a site that appeared generally geared towards women, though, but more niche market than something like Cosmo. If I come across it again, I'll definitely post a link here. Wish I thought of that before my post, but it's not like I read the article and thought of TAM, either..


Anyway, my views on sex, fwiw, are somewhere in between your husbands and the opposite direction.

I have never been able to bring myself to sleep with someone I just met, for example. But I also don't need to be full-on in love with someone to have sex with them. I've always felt this way, right from the start. Nobody taught me to be like that, and I certainly didn't pick it up from my friends.

For me to be able to have any sort of sexual contact with someone, I have to at least know them and have SOME sort of connection with them.

I am fine with other people's ability to sleep with someone they just met - it is just not for me. I don't feel like I am morally better than them, even though it is a moral decision - actually, I wouldn't even call it a decision on my part. It's different strokes for different folks, in my opinion.

So I've almost always felt that it's okay to ask, or discuss this topic with women I'm interested in pursuing a real relationship with - and why not? It DOES give one an idea of how the other views lofty subjects such as sex, and what it means to them. To me, it's not about being slVtty, it's simply an attitude thing. If one persons attitude is that sex is just sex, while the other holds more personal meaning to it, there's something that's not a match. If that's the only thing, then it's not so bad, but it's still a biggie.

And that's why I was saying, it's not so much about numbers as it is about context and meaning. I'd be just as likely to be put off by someone who has had 5 partners who were all ONS as someone who has had 40, and 5 of them were in relationships and the rest casual. But those also aren't dealbreakers for me, either. Just red flags, I guess, and something to keep my eyes open about.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

alexm said:


> It wasn't the article that stated that, it was the comments from readers that followed.
> 
> And it was a very non-sexist (in my view) article, neither discussing men, nor women. It was just about the topic at hand.


Ok well thanks for clarifying. 


I just happened upon an article on some site (I don't even know how I got there, seriously) in which the *author posits that your number does not and should not matter in any way shape or form. The comments below the article are 99% in agreement.* Furthermore, a theme amongst the comments is that anybody who cares about their partners' number or cares to ask, is misogynistic and generally has the mindset of an immature teenager. This article, and the bulk of the comments, were made by adults. This wasn't a website for kids or young adults.


I read this as the author posted this rant and and the posters agreed on his misogynistic views. Sounds more like he had an opinion based article and commenters are taking it to extremes............

Hey wait that sounds really familiar


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Jellybeans said:


> Well, you'd be hard-pressed to find any woman who is going to tell you that when you just met them! Ta is a really invasive question if two people are just enjoying a drink at the bar and don't know each other from anyone else.
> 
> But, to surmise: You would not be ok with it if bar-girl did not tell you about her #.
> 
> ...


This is the second response (and there's still 2 pages I haven't read yet!) that seem to think this is something I would do.

If you re-read what I wrote, this is not what I said. First of all, it's an entirely fictional "what-if?". And second, I said something along the lines of "if she volunteered".

More importantly, I also didn't mention anything about this information coming up right then and there, nor with every woman I was interested in. I've only ever had this discussion with two women, and I married both of them. My ex wife was the one who brought it up with me, and I had no problem talking about my past, nor hearing about hers. My current wife, I brought it up, assuming (doh!) that it was something on the table (generally going by my last experience with that subject...) I was wrong. Bad move. Lesson learned.

The bolded part above is pretty much exactly my thoughts on this, too. Perhaps this was not clear in the original post.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Faithful Wife said:


> I actually don't and wouldn't get offended by a man asking me this number (though none ever have)...yet I do think it is offensive when people judge others based on the number, which we see here all the time. Actually even just the ACTS a woman may have done with another partner are used to judge women here, if that act isn't also done with her current partner.
> 
> Again I think it is up to each of us to ask or not ask and use our own personal criteria for mate selection. I also totally honor the people who want to only want to be with a virgin or someone with very low numbers. But when the same person goes on about how their criteria applies to total strangers, then they are just being judgmental. If someone's sex life has NOTHING to do with YOU (ie: this applies to every person on earth except the very few you will be in a relationship or have sex with) then why are you discussing what this stranger's number "means"?


I have an interesting and slightly differing view than yours, FW (I'm sorry! lol)

I do believe that men are judged on this, too. I DO recognize that the judgment of women IS different, however. Labels still, unfortunately, mean different things based on gender, which is incredibly unfortunate and very sad. But we men are judged on this too.

Frankly, and I may lose some of you here, if I haven't already, but I think getting to know someone you're interested in dating is all ABOUT judgement, of every type. Why can't sexuality be part of that, especially considering it is unanimously so important?

Judgement doesn't necessarily always imply negativity, and here's the part I don't quite get - for those who believe the number (or context) isn't important or "none of your damn business", it's not simply a social decision they've made. More often than not, it's because it's high or low, or the circumstances are not something they're proud of. If one truly has no shame or regrets, than there should be no problem in talking about it honestly. So who is it truly about? You, or the other person who's asking?

To me, as someone said above, two people sharing a life together should know each other better than everybody else. It's not about secrets, it's about being comfortable enough with that person to allow them to know everything about yourself and more importantly, knowing that person isn't judging you for the sake of judging you. Yes, you may look at your partner differently when you know a little bit more about them, but isn't that the point? Not knowing things, including this, means you don't TRULY know them. Is it important? Not necessarily the subject matter, no. But in the context of KNOWING your partner inside and out, past and present, yes.

In other words, if you have something your partner doesn't know about, what's keeping it in? Is it because you think they won't love you if they knew?


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

alexm said:


> Anyway, my views on sex, fwiw, are somewhere in between your husbands and the opposite direction.
> 
> I have never been able to bring myself to sleep with someone I just met, for example. But I also don't need to be full-on in love with someone to have sex with them. I've always felt this way, right from the start. Nobody taught me to be like that, and I certainly didn't pick it up from my friends.
> 
> ...


If it's not so much about the numbers, then why ask about the numbers? Why not just ask about their perspective on sex and see what they say? 

I think just asking a question like, "when did you first fall in love?" sparks a _conversation _with give and take where you can ask questions and clarify your thoughts and she can do the same, and you both learn about each other's life experiences and discuss what you each learned from them...

Asking about the number and using it as shorthand to guess at or make assumptions about a person's perspective and attitude seems far less productive, and far more prone to misinterpretation and misjudgment, as well as plain old judgment. Asking about the number cuts out the context and meaning.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Wolf1974 said:


> I read this as the author posted this rant and and the posters agreed on his misogynistic views. Sounds more like he had an opinion based article and commenters are taking it to extremes............
> 
> Hey wait that sounds really familiar





adfsgarg said:


> This is purely for interesting discussion, not for any vested interest I have.


Seriously guys?


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

norajane said:


> If it's not so much about the numbers, then why ask about the numbers? Why not just ask about their perspective on sex and see what they say?
> 
> I think just asking a question like, "when did you first fall in love?" sparks a _conversation _with give and take where you can ask questions and clarify your thoughts and she can do the same, and you both learn about each other's life experiences and discuss what you each learned from them...
> 
> Asking about the number and using it as shorthand to guess at or make assumptions about a person's perspective and attitude seems far less productive, and far more prone to misinterpretation and misjudgment, as well as plain old judgment. Asking about the number cuts out the context and meaning.


Straight up, my opinion is that it can be valid, but it's also a very risky proposition to get into.

Where *I* stand on this is that I don't see a problem with this type of discussion, but I also completely understand why some people do. There are pros and cons to knowing or not knowing. It all really depends upon the two personalities involved.

You are not one to engage in this type of conversation (or at least in such a blunt manner), and guess what? Neither am I. I totally agree with your manner at arriving at pretty much the same destination. Much more tactful.

Nowhere have I stated that I have, or anybody SHOULD, be blunt and direct in regards to getting that sort of information. My OP wasn't based on HOW one arrives at this information, it's simply obtaining (or not obtaining) it. Not sure how this went off the rails so quickly and turned into several people accusing me of asking this question within minutes of meeting somebody. Then to further decry anybody who does this.

Well no **** that's a stupid thing to do, and I hope to god that nobody actually does this.

That said, I can completely understand why some people need this number (EVENTUALLY). I believe I have said in another thread about this general topic that you are unlikely to ever get an honest answer, anyway, man or woman. And even if you do, one will always have a sliver of doubt about whether that person told the truth, anyway, at least at the beginning of a relationship.

The irony is that if you were to ask after 10 years of marriage, the answer would more likely be truthful, but at that point, it does little in terms of evaluating your partner as far as you're concerned.

As an aside, and not directed at you, NoraJane, I only ventured my opinion on the matter because it seems rather silly for me to make a post for the sake of discussion, and then just back away. Because my opinion differs from a few others, doesn't mean I have an ulterior motive here, or a vested interest - which I clearly stated I did not.

I am still unclear on why some people feel the need to call out others on internet message boards, no matter the topic, simply because of holding a differing belief on a subject. Isn't that what this is for? I am not here to change minds, I am here for interesting discussion and to hear other opinions.

There are a number of things here at TAM that I have changed my mind on, after reading intelligent and respectful commentaries on. But I wasn't being bashed over the head with it.

This is how one changes and grows and evolves - you hear what others have to say, as opposed to holding your own beliefs at all costs and not listening to what others opinions are. There's rarely ever a reason to try and be sly and condescending in these cases, it's very juvenile and proves nothing.

Luckily there are relatively few people here like that, the ones who flat out say "you're wrong and here's why". Rather, the majority of people here tend to listen to what others have to say and respond with their opinion.

My arguments and opinions aren't perfect, and you can poke holes in pretty much anything I, or anybody else here says, and the same is true in reverse. I'm probably not going to change your mind (and that's not my aim) and you're probably not going to change mine. But we can certainly have an engaging discussion on whatever the subject is and learn and grow from each other. But there are always those out there who feel the need to prove their stance beyond a shadow of a doubt, and it usually involves ridiculing somebody in the process.


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> Ok well thanks for clarifying.
> 
> 
> I just happened upon an article on some site (I don't even know how I got there, seriously) in which the *author posits that your number does not and should not matter in any way shape or form. The comments below the article are 99% in agreement.* Furthermore, a theme amongst the comments is that anybody who cares about their partners' number or cares to ask, is misogynistic and generally has the mindset of an immature teenager. This article, and the bulk of the comments, were made by adults. This wasn't a website for kids or young adults.
> ...


:rofl::rofl: :iagree::iagree:


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

alexm said:


> I can't for the life of me remember where I read it, even though it was just last week... As I said, I was just surfing, one page to the next, and I happened upon it. It was a site that appeared generally geared towards women, though, but more niche market than something like Cosmo. If I come across it again, I'll definitely post a link here. Wish I thought of that before my post, but it's not like I read the article and thought of TAM, either..


 I've read a slew of articles on this "mysgoyny" word... never heard of it before I landed on TAM...I feel it gets used a little too easy .. throwing a person with a more sacred view of sexuality into the same camp as a male male chauvinist or someone who lives a "Double standard" I feel is very very wrong.. I will take issue with things like that... 

Nothing surprises me anymore.. It does sadden me though. 



> Anyway, my views on sex, fwiw, are somewhere in between your husbands and the opposite direction.


 I'd say you are more normal for a man.. Not putting my H down by this .. I Prayed for a guy like him... He knew I wanted to wait for marriage and he waited FOR YEARS for intercourse ...he never pushed me.. he respected me more for my feelings..would I have ever found another guy like that.. Hell NO!....So yeah, he's pretty special.. My stomach was turned by the type of men who can get off , and walk away.. I didn't want that in my life.. I have my own reasons for feeling as I do...and they were very strong back then...others who have no walked in my shoes would not understand ME.. 



> I have never been able to bring myself to sleep with someone I just met, for example. But I also don't need to be full-on in love with someone to have sex with them. I've always felt this way, right from the start. Nobody taught me to be like that, and I certainly didn't pick it up from my friends.


 Yeah.. I know what you mean about friends.. most are pretty wild in this day & age... obviously I think that is a great way to be..(coming from me)....I think these things are ingrained in us as well.. my H was not raised in the church or anything (as everyone would assume when you feel as he did)... he was not even religious, could care less.. he is just a more sensitive type of guy, very romantic natured...he doesn't like to hurt people, it wouldn't matter who it was, it would bother his conscious.. I am similar but --add books I read on waiting... my desire to find a guy who was a virgin -so we could share all our 1sts together.. (not what you normally hear I know!)....add the aftermath I seen from my mothers choices with men (she was the poster woman for giving it away).... which basically caused her a nervous breakdown, she was ripped from my life.... (always a story right)...these things affected me.. one could say I went a little too far in my feelings but I found the right man who respected them & cared deeply about me...if all I was met with was those who threw me away ...where would I be today.. I don't know...I just believe we were meant to be... 



> For me to be able to have any sort of sexual contact with someone, I have to at least know them and have SOME sort of connection with them.
> 
> I am fine with other people's ability to sleep with someone they just met - it is just not for me. I don't feel like I am morally better than them, even though it is a moral decision - actually, I wouldn't even call it a decision on my part. It's different strokes for different folks, in my opinion.


 Well I like porn so some would call me a hypocrite.. not sure what to do with that.. I don't care what others do either .. but I do worry about the influence on our children...as I feel those who want to wait are ridiculed today in high school .. our boys talk about it.. the tide has changed so much, the peer pressure is strong. I feel it's more of a concern to our young people, not to jump in so early having sex with anyone.. to be more selective .. 

We often speak how their brains are not fully developed till their mid 20's but think nothing of them having sex at 16.. this doesn't make sense to me..nor will it.. (again speaking of our young people -not adults) 



> So I've almost always felt that it's okay to ask, or discuss this topic with women I'm interested in pursuing a real relationship with - and why not? It DOES give one an idea of how the other views lofty subjects such as sex, and what it means to them. To me, it's not about being slVtty, it's simply an attitude thing. If one persons attitude is that sex is just sex, while the other holds more personal meaning to it, there's something that's not a match. If that's the only thing, then it's not so bad, but it's still a biggie.


 :smthumbup:...Have you seen my sexual views thread alexm...this can break it down, the various sexual lenses we look through.... actually we can hold all of these views...they have their place (sex is just sex is primarily about PLEASURE) we all want pleasure!..... but which ever view we hold as PRIMARY .. it will speak something - to the ability or desire to have strings/ commitment ...or it is not something that is necessary.. the 1st 3 views do require commitment strings, the last 3 do not.. it can be a compatibility issue , so I feel...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...exual-views-have-they-changed-over-years.html

Myself & husband fall under this view..



> *3. ** Romantic View *~
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 When I read this in the Book explaining these.. it was like 'DAMN.. that summed up EVERYTHING I have ALWAYS FELT.. even in my teens" and really it has never changed..... I was kinda blown away and happy to have something to explain it ... 



> And that's why I was saying, it's not so much about numbers as it is about context and meaning. I'd be just as likely to be put off by someone who has had 5 partners who were all ONS as someone who has had 40, and 5 of them were in relationships and the rest casual. But those also aren't dealbreakers for me, either. Just red flags, I guess, and something to keep my eyes open about.


I have told this story a few times on TAM... one of my best friends parents growing up ....she had a reputation (she really got around) before she married...she also had a baby out of wedlock & gave it up for adoption...my mother & her were good friends ... guess who she hooked up with .... the town VIRGIN.. they had a love for horses.. they married...built a horse farm together.. successful... I grew up beside this family.. she was loud , boisterous and kinda crazy - but A LOT OF FUN, why my mother loved her. He was introverted, so quiet you didn't know he was there.. but they had a GOOD MARRIAGE .. not any problems I ever heard of.. when he died, she collapsed.. they had a beautiful love story and full life together.... so even I know ... from what I have seen.. that it doesn't have to matter.... Love can be found despite her past and obviously a man's total Inexperience -- I am sure she loved showing him exactly what to do ...and he probably was turned on by a more "take charge" aggressive woman -having the temperament like he had ! The chemistry was there..


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

alexm said:


> Frankly, and I may lose some of you here, if I haven't already, but I think getting to know someone you're interested in dating is all ABOUT judgement, of every type. Why can't sexuality be part of that, especially considering it is unanimously so important?
> 
> Judgement doesn't necessarily always imply negativity, and here's the part I don't quite get - for those who believe the number (or context) isn't important or "none of your damn business", it's not simply a social decision they've made. More often than not, it's because it's high or low, or the circumstances are not something they're proud of. If one truly has no shame or regrets, than there should be no problem in talking about it honestly. So who is it truly about? You, or the other person who's asking?


:iagree:

Two good points in that quote. First, we do judge potential partners as either a good match or not a good match. It isn't good or bad person, it is good or bad match.

A vegetarian would not be a great match for me. A night owl would not be a good match for me. A big city lover would not be a good match for me. None of those make them a bad person but it does make them a bad match as a spouse for me.

Secondly, if someone is hiding their past, it does indeed speak to their own judgements of their actions. They either judge their past as bad in some way, or they judge their past as incompatible with a potential partner.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

alexm said:


> I have an interesting and slightly differing view than yours, FW (I'm sorry! lol)
> 
> I do believe that men are judged on this, too. I DO recognize that the judgment of women IS different, however. Labels still, unfortunately, mean different things based on gender, which is incredibly unfortunate and very sad. But we men are judged on this too.
> 
> ...


Alexm...The first bolded part above is where I'm taking issue with your whole thread.

You are projecting here, and you are also saying something extremely judgmental that has no basis in fact, you are simply speculating that "more often than not" it is because their number is high or low if someone doesn't agree with YOUR premise. I don't know how you can make a broad sweeping assumption about "why" people may or may not agree with your premise like this and yet not understand why you are coming across as judgmental?

If you simply were discussing this topic without also saying stuff like the first bolded statement, I wouldn't see you as being judgmental. And I'm not saying that you being judgmental is some big huge deal or anything, it just isn't fair IMO and that's why I'm pointing it out.

There is nothing wrong with MY number...I'm not ashamed of anything nor trying to hide anything. I'm simply saying that this should only be of concern between YOU and an actual prospective PARTNER. It really isn't fair to try to assume why anyone else, which includes ME, would feel the way they feel about this topic.

In other words, your thread comes across like this:

"Sex is very meaningful to me and this is proved by the low number of partners I've had and anyone else who has had more partners than I have had OR anyone who does not agree that discussing the numbers is important with new partners, I will assume they do not place a high importance on sex and/or they have something to hide."

:scratchhead: On what basis would you assume to know why I don't necessarily agree with your premise? And keep in mind, I already said I would not be offended if a potential partner asked my number and I would not lie. 

Then in the second bolded part, you go back to talking about two people sharing a life together. Yet you just spent a moment above talking about people who just have an opinion different than yours, not people who are contemplating being together.

Then the third bolded part...do you really think you CAN know your partner inside and out so much that you can protect yourself against any possible harm? Because I'm going to say that plenty of people with both high and low numbers and who answered these questions honestly to their partners have cheated, lied, and done other really crappy things to their spouses and partners. 

I also want to make clear, I'm not calling you insecure or misogynistic. To me it wouldn't matter if a man or woman opened this thread. I would still be offended at someone saying that since I don't agree, I must have something to hide or not realize how special sex is supposed to be.


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## couple (Nov 6, 2010)

Couples sharing information like the number of sex partners is not about JUDGING each other it's about KNOWING each other.

Sexual history is an important part of one's overall sexuality. and one's overall sexuality is a very important part of who they are.

Why do we constantly talk about sexual history as if the discussion is had only to determine if it's 'OK'? 

i can't imagine being married to someone for years and having no idea about their sexuality - only what they are like with me today. it's like being married to someone and having no idea about their family life growing up, never discussing their years in school and having no idea what kind of education they have, what was their first job, etc, etc.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

I admit I have skimmed but not read through all five pages!

I would reckon the 'norm' would be three (with the third being your wife/husband) proper partners - ie relationship, and maybe 2-3 one/two night 'flings'.

I'm not surprised anyone with more than that being a bit reticent in being truthful.
One poster referred to his wife as having had 'over 100'....!! Gosh.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

couple said:


> Couples sharing information like the number of sex partners is not about JUDGING each other it's about KNOWING each other.
> 
> Sexual history is an important part of one's overall sexuality. and one's overall sexuality is a very important part of who they are.
> 
> ...


That's more or less how I view things, too, and it's difficult to convey why without having a face to face discussion.

I will tell you from my own experience - the woman I am married to now, we were each others firsts, some 20+ years ago. 3 years dating back then, then went our separate ways for ~15 years. Obviously when we reconnected, we were entirely different people, no longer 17 years old, now over 30.

When we first reconnected, I wanted to know all about what her life was like throughout those years, and I assumed she wanted to know about me as well. I wanted to know about her ups and her downs, her good experiences, her bad, and yes, her relationships (within reason). Not to judge her, but to see how she'd spent that period of time.

I think there was a disconnect there, at first (and still, imo). Whereas I saw our relationship as a "getting back together after so many years" type of thing, she saw it more as a totally new experience, but yes, we used to date way back in the day. So she was reluctant to talk about her experiences, whereas I was excited to share mine. 

To me, it was like seeing a long-lost friend and catching up.

TBH, I've thought once or twice about whether this would have been a discussion I'd have had with someone whom I had no history with, and I'm not sure it would have been. I took it rather personally that she didn't want to share much with me, whereas if she was somebody I had just met, I wouldn't have.

To me, it would be like getting together with a high school friend I hadn't seen in 20 years and them telling me what they've been up to during that time is none of my business and asking me why I care. She was looking at it from the pov that I was going to judge her and was being nosy. I was looking at it from the pov that I'm genuinely interested in what she'd been up to all that time.

Her totally opposite view on that subject was what prompted me to inquire about this subject, or take part in discussions about it here on TAM (this post aside, again, this post wasn't prompted by MY feelings, it was more about discussion and interest). Before this experience with her, I had no thoughts about it either way, truly. I didn't have an opinion. I was more than happy to talk about my stuff if someone was to ask, but I also never felt the need to ask anybody myself.

Her response really raised red flags to me, simply because when somebody says "none of your business" to ANYTHING, there's a reason for it, and it's usually not just based upon that person being intensely private. FWIW, she's not intensely private about much else other than her past. She's not shy, she's not at all worried about what others think of her, that sort of thing. I remember how she was back when we were dating as kids, and that part of her has never changed. She's not a people pleaser and doesn't change to suit you. Most people like her, as she has a great and fun personality. A very few find her "too much" or something else along those lines. And she doesn't care if you like her or not, it's no skin off her back.

But when it comes to this, it's disconcerting, only because she develops a different personality around this subject. No longer is it a "I don't care what you think, this is who I am" - it becomes quite the opposite. So of course it'll get my radar up.

For my part, I've put that away and accept it for what it is, and her for who she is. It's not her past or not knowing about it that bothers me, it's the unwillingness to share with me as well as the diametrically opposite personality traits it brings out in her. It's clearly a touchy subject for her, and of course it bothers me that she can't/won't trust even me with it. I DO take it personally. Would I take it personally if we had only met a few years ago and not been each others first bf/gf? Probably not, or not nearly as much. But given our circumstances, I do feel slightly hurt that she is unwilling (or unable) to share things, good or bad, with me. But I guess that's my problem, not hers.

It's not my right to know anything I want, regardless of our circumstances. But it's not the right of two long lost friends or relatives catching up, either. This is how I see us, as two people who have reconnected after a lifetime apart, and two people who were meant to be with each other, after all. To share our combined experiences during this time apart seems natural to me.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Thor said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Two good points in that quote. First, we do judge potential partners as either a good match or not a good match. It isn't good or bad person, it is good or bad match.
> 
> ...


I've heard this theory before here at TAM, and I agree and disagree at the same time - when someone recognizes that their past does not, or might not, jive with their potential partner, they will either not speak about it or lie about it.

I find this disingenuous, as if someone is inquiring about it, it's clearly important in some way to them, in order to determine compatibility.

Yes, sexuality and your "past" IS personal, but so are things like political views, religion, etc. and those are usually freely discussed amongst potential partners - again to determine if your values match up.

If one can freely discuss their political leanings without feeling like it's a personal violation of their privacy, and/or there is no shame involved, why is there such a reticence to discuss views on sexuality and relationships - the things that actually DO matter within a relationship? I'd argue that sexual compatibility and the views that go along with them are much more important than political or religious views.

In general, I feel that if it matters to one person, then it's something they are using to determine long-term compatibility, and nothing more. It's not judgement for judgements sake, it's judgement to see if this is a person who is compatible with you in ways that matter within a relationship. If it doesn't matter to either of you, then it's unimportant, and that's fine.

If I meet a woman, and she is Jewish, and it's important to her that her potential mate is Jewish as well, this will come up early on. If I'm not Jewish, but I ASSUME it's important to her that I AM, I could lie and say yes. Or I could get defensive and say "none of your business, it doesn't matter". Or I could tell the truth and take my chances. If it's important to her that I'm Jewish, then maybe I'm not a good match for her, even though I think I am. Oh well, move on.

But if something is important to the other and you lie about it, or otherwise don't divulge a thing on the subject, then you're doing both yourself and your potential mate a disservice. Whether or not YOU think it's important is moot. It's important to the other person, and it is they, as well as you, who have to make a decision on compatibility. 

Dating is like sales. You get somebody in the door through advertising, or having a nice display in the window. Once they're in the door, you have to go into sales mode. Is this car right for me? Are you the right buyer for this car? Does this car meet your needs? Is it everything you've always wanted in a car, or is it just enough to get you from A to B? And so on. Everybody puts a different value on these various things when buying a car.

If I get hooked in by advertising, I'm going to go into the store. I'm not going to buy right away, I will ask questions and determine if the product is suitable for me. Some people put a high value on gas mileage when buying a car. What the car looks like, or how it performs, or it's "cool factor" are secondary, or completely unimportant.

If I ask the car sales-person what the gas mileage is, and they respond with "why? it doesn't matter, it's a cool car!", that's disingenuous. The question is important to ME. It's worse if they lie and tell me it's awesome, and it turns out it's a gas guzzler.

When buying a used car, I'd like to know it's history. Has it been in an accident? Does it have recurring problems or issues? Has it been babied, or abused? Who drove it, a little old lady or a 16 year old? The answers won't necessarily mean I won't buy it. If it's been in an accident, I may still like the car and buy it. But for some, it's a dealbreaker, and they'd never buy a car that had been in an accident.

IMO, it's always better to tell the truth and answer the question, regardless of what it is (within reason, of course. There's personal, and there's PERSONAL). But if she's asking, there's a reason for it. She may just want to know. It may be a dealbreaker for her. She may tell me why I'm asking, or not. No matter the circumstances, it's important to her for one reason or another.

So where is the benefit in telling her it's none of her business and/or lying? There is none.

FWIW, not much is a dealbreaker for me. I DO care about what the person is like NOW, not in the past. But at the same time, I'd like to know what their past was like in the first place. I DO want to know their experiences, and how they've affected them, negatively or positively. I want to know where they've come from and how they've arrived here. It's not about judgement or thinking in terms of right or wrong. It's simply about knowing a person.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Faithful Wife said:


> In other words, your thread comes across like this:
> 
> "Sex is very meaningful to me and this is proved by the low number of partners I've had and anyone else who has had more partners than I have had *OR anyone who does not agree that discussing the numbers is important with new partners, I will assume they do not place a high importance on sex and/or they have something to hide."*


Monkey wrench here... running on what you just said here.. .. . I asked my H this morning a "what would you do if you were in this situation?"...we talked a good half an hour if he would ASK about #'s in getting to know a woman.. (any age, young, older, single - hoping to find a wife)....* HE TOLD ME NO, he would NOT ASK*... I asked him *WHY*.. his answer is because if he KNEW or learned .. he would not look at her the same way...even saying he would probably "drop her" right there..

The long term "in love" relationships he would have no problem with... but the others he would... if she had sex too young, anything along casual lines.... as the KNOWING would play on his mind.. 

(Granted I am an about face on this ...the NOT KNOWING would bother me, I'd probably even play that up ...I wouldn't be able to lay it down until it was revealed with some understanding to what he was like BEFORE we met)... 

I asked another *WHY*.. would he feel inadequate & compare himself to learn she had many partners before him .... He said NO.. its not that at all.. (I asked him this 3 times...always a NO...saying "Why , she's with me"...(though I would have a different take on this entirely -like she couldn't snag the Hot one she wanted & settled would come to my mind)..

He is not an obsessive compulsive type (they say this plays into "RJ")...that would get hung up on mind movies, though he did say this would surely enter in too at that point...1st he'd think about STD's & what she could have given him. 

Now in my view.. he is being a FOOL... someone like him, who feels as strongly as he does, SHOULD BE having that conversation...because any slip up or it surfaces later is going to put a dagger into their relationship.... better to deal with it before. I can NOT relate to my husband's mentality here at all.. 

But then again, his response feeds into exactly WHY WOMEN DON'T WANT TO GO HERE..

His view is, they should be more selective with who they sleep with...

He feels women think they are "trapping" a man, that having sex will hold onto him but it often works against them -saying most men just want SEX , by giving it , they have no incentive...then they move on to someone else..(My husband is the type who wants to BUY the cow I guess!)....and he reasons if it's not that she is looking to keep him, then she is just using HIM.. again ...against how he views the act...

Really both parties* need* to be questioning each other about their sexual views then (putting partner count aside)..just discuss how one views the act, it's boundaries in dating/ meaning in relationship stages... I surely don't see why this would be a bad conversation!....Sex is a great topic ! 

This in itself should weed people out -who are just not on the same page with this..

I asked him if he would feel she lied by her NOT coming forth, he said NO, but still he would not look at her the same way...

I'm one of those open book types...he's never had to worry about me holding back.. I told him the 2 things I did with boys before we met, he never asked... which obviously would suit someone as gullible as him in this area. I think any man who feels as him, should be asking ...to spare them both. ...so I am with the OP... 

And women would just as much judge a man like my Husband for feeling as he does calling him this or that...... He feels it is something worth waiting for, the Penis in the Vagina anyway. He also feels it's best to find someone younger to avoid much of this...



> *couple said*:* i can't imagine being married to someone for years and having no idea about their sexuality - only what they are like with me today. it's like being married to someone and having no idea about their family life growing up, never discussing their years in school and having no idea what kind of education they have, what was their first job, etc, etc.*


 I'm the same way.. he had 2 GF's before me, no pictures, I have asked him to look them up on FB- he can't find either one of them... I've even told his Mom I was bummed she never took any...I am curious !


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

couple said:


> i can't imagine being married to someone for years and having no idea about their sexuality - only what they are like with me today. it's like being married to someone and having no idea about their family life growing up, never discussing their years in school and having no idea what kind of education they have, what was their first job, etc, etc.


Some people have a very different idea or need in terms of closeness in a relationship. Some people really don't want to know all those details. I can't understand it myself. I want to really know someone and really feel comfortable with them. I don't want a roommate or f-buddy type of friendship with my spouse. But there are people out there who compartmentalize things to the point of not caring about their spouse's history, and also not wanting to share their own history.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

alexm said:


> I've heard this theory before here at TAM, and I agree and disagree at the same time - when someone recognizes that their past does not, or might not, jive with their potential partner, they will either not speak about it or lie about it.
> 
> I find this disingenuous, as if someone is inquiring about it, it's clearly important in some way to them, in order to determine compatibility.
> 
> ...




Seems like this is where the thread is derailed for some. It's not the judgement of someone with a high or low number as good or bad. Rather it's a judgment of if that person they would work well 
In our life. We all get to make that judgement for our own life. 


My GF has A higher number than me and doesn't bother me. Her life circumstances were very different than mine. I spent most my adult life married and her single so they are going to be different. The only thing that would have been a deal breaker would have been if she wouldn't have been abley o sit down and have a frank discussion about our sexual past. Why anyone would be defensive about that I don't know but I am thankful every day for her emotional maturity


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

samyeagar said:


> Is knowing the history just pure intellectual curiosity, or is it used as part of your decision making process with regards to them as a suitable partner?


This is going to be a two part answer for me.

In my experience, it was 100% intellectual curiosity. I married young out of high school. My history lessons consisted of, "Did he kiss good?" "Did he ever try to put his hands down your pants?" Because of our age, nothing she said would have made my wife an unsuitable partner. But, the small things were still big to my young mind and I wanted to be her best boyfriend.

If I was to be single again, obviously times have changed. Did you give him oral sex, anal, analinguist, how many guys, etc. I mean, it sounds dumb but analinguist must be popular because half the threesomes my wife and I have had, women seem to take it from the top right to the *bottom*. No hesitation, no reservations. Although I think women joining a couple are a bit more experimental, they are single none the less, and if I was back on the market I would have a hard time taking a woman serious who openly did this with various other men. Sounds dumb, but some things my introvert mind just can't accept. I think the current version of me would want to know history in order to make sure she was a suitable partner. For me, personality, looks, and conversation would all be great attributes, but if she had a crazy history that I just couldn't respect, I know I couldn't love her the way someone else who didn't care could. I'd be cheating her to pretend I respected her, so why try? Some people find ignorance bliss. I want to know everything about my lover and her history would be extremely important to me.

So, in the past it was for intellectual curiosity, these days it would be purely to find a suitable partner and intellectual curiosity.

TMI


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good afternoon all
I think there is a big difference between asking out of curiosity and asking because you are judging. The way to tell is whether or not any answer you are at all likely to get would make you feel negatively about the other person:

A: Did you have a wild past?

B: Yes, things got pretty crazy, I went to sex clubs, there was this one crazy roman orgy with guys and girls....

A(judgmental): Wow you were really a **** - not sure I can deal with that.

A( non-judgmental): Wow, cool, I never would expected that -any good stories?


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

richardsharpe said:


> Good afternoon all
> I think there is a big difference between asking out of curiosity and asking because you are judging. The way to tell is whether or not any answer you are at all likely to get would make you feel negatively about the other person:
> 
> A: Did you have a wild past?
> ...


Aren't both of those responses judgments, one positive and one negative based on the individuals point of view? Truly non judgmental would be having no opinion either way. In the example you gave above, it seems as if the term 'judgmental' is being used as a pejorative, and it's not always that way.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

samyeagar said:


> So what I am hearing is that numbers don't matter to you if they are not a romantic prospect, BUT...
> 
> If she IS a romantic prospect for you, then you do care about numbers?


Yes.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

richardsharpe said:


> Good afternoon all
> I think there is a big difference between asking out of curiosity and asking because you are judging. The way to tell is whether or not any answer you are at all likely to get would make you feel negatively about the other person:
> 
> A: Did you have a wild past?
> ...


Come on..you know it's only reasonable that we all have the right/ freedom , for our own personal pleasure & future in mind.. to make a discernment/ judgement (whatever one wants to call it) to the sort of person that we would want to spend the rest of our lives with (all colors of the rainbow here & darn are we different in what some of us want over others!)....

For instance, someone who partied would be an automatic "NO" for me.. wanted nothing to do with that form of enjoyment..getting drunk, passing out, friends with DUI's... OMG.....I watched my Mother marry an alcoholic, pathetic life, frankly I'd rather be dead... I didn't even want a guy who smoked ....... as I knew I'd ride his a$$ about it....(he wouldn't want to put up with me either!)...

But on the other hand, many things other women look at (and consider deal breakers..or "eww... I could do better!")... I wouldn't have minded at all ...even invited ! Never cared how much the guy made, if he drove an old car with winder windows and liked to go to flea markets ! ALL GOOD... I wasn't materialistic in the least...in fact I'd be  if he didn't save his money! 

It's only wisdom to assess another , comparing many variables (not just sexual views by any means)....and if they would be GOOD for us , if they could "FIT" & appreciate what we have to offer ...with us enjoying their personal uniqueness... or we'd be trying to change who they are anyway...wanting to mold them more like us..

How many go into relationships like that and end up banging their heads against the wall .. ..constant complaining to his /her behavior ... they both end up hating each other... train wreck.

I resonated very much with alexm's car analogy...this is how I think as well.. I want to hear all the dirt...... so I have the full picture...and can assess from there... that's how my brain works in almost anything.. even when buying a new vacuum cleaner for goodness sakes... I go to amazon & read a pile of reviews to hear all the problems/ issues...so I can then evaluate *how bad* it is and if those things would sway my wanting to buy it or If I felt the reviewers had different cares over myself..



> *alexm said* : Dating is like sales. You get somebody in the door through advertising, or having a nice display in the window. Once they're in the door, you have to go into sales mode. Is this car right for me? Are you the right buyer for this car? Does this car meet your needs? Is it everything you've always wanted in a car, or is it just enough to get you from A to B? And so on. Everybody puts a different value on these various things when buying a car.
> 
> If I get hooked in by advertising, I'm going to go into the store. I'm not going to buy right away, I will ask questions and determine if the product is suitable for me. Some people put a high value on gas mileage when buying a car. What the car looks like, or how it performs, or it's "cool factor" are secondary, or completely unimportant.
> 
> ...


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

richardsharpe said:


> Good afternoon all
> I think there is a big difference between asking out of curiosity and asking because you are judging. The way to tell is whether or not any answer you are at all likely to get would make you feel negatively about the other person:
> 
> A: Did you have a wild past?
> ...


How about these alternative judgments:

1) Hmm, sex clubs and orgies are not compatible with my views of sex, even when single. We are likely to have some significant differences in our views on sexuality and on relationships.

2) The wild experiences don't bother me, but I am somewhat worried about diseases. We need to be sure to be safe and to be properly tested for diseases before we do anything which might transmit disease.

3) Those experiences are similar to some of mine and are consistent with the kinds of things I want to do with my future partner or spouse. This may be a good match, at least in the area of attitudes about sex.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I asked my H this morning a "what would you do if you were in this situation?"...we talked a good half an hour if he would ASK about #'s in getting to know a woman.. (any age, young, older, single - hoping to find a wife)....* HE TOLD ME NO, he would NOT ASK*... I asked him *WHY*.. his answer is because if he KNEW or learned .. he would not look at her the same way...even saying he would probably "drop her" right there..


I might not ask, at least early on or in a more casual relationship, because I would expect to be lied to. In the past the rule of thumb seemed to be to double whatever # the woman gave you. Nowadays young men tell me the rule of thumb is to _triple_ whatever # she says!

Knowing a woman's # would affect what I think of her, because now I have more data. Just as knowing her position on political issues would affect what I think of her.

This may not make sense to many of the more prickly people here, whom I suspect have had negative experiences and been judged for their numbers, but I was attracted to my wife in part because she was sexually much freer than I and she was more experienced than I. To me it was a positive in many ways.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Thor said:


> Some people have a very different idea or need in terms of closeness in a relationship. Some people really don't want to know all those details. I can't understand it myself. I want to really know someone and really feel comfortable with them. I don't want a roommate or f-buddy type of friendship with my spouse. But there are people out there who compartmentalize things to the point of not caring about their spouse's history, and also not wanting to share their own history.


I would like to add to this, that this is FINE, too!

I don't get the impression that Thor, or anybody else here frowns upon how others view this subject. It's just a case of "do we see things in a similar light, or not?" And that IS important. If both parties don't care, then great. If both partners do care, then also great. But if one does and the other doesn't... there's some trouble.

This is how things went with my wife and I. I am an open book, and nothing, as far as I'm concerned, is off limits to her. Her book is stapled, glued and bound shut. I've learned to leave it alone and accept that that is the way she is. At first, all kinds of things went through my head. What is she hiding? Does she not trust me enough to tell me about certain things? Etc.

I've more or less gotten over it. She is who she is, and I love her for who she is NOW. But of course things play on my mind from time to time, it's only natural. Obviously I AM concerned that what she's not being open with would have been enough for me to go in a different direction - not that I necessarily would have, but I would guess that she thinks I would have, thus better to not say anything at all. I somewhat resent her projecting that assumption upon me, but it's also her prerogative to do so, as it is my prerogative to have this be a dealbreaker.

I also don't feel as close to her as I should feel. Not because of the subject matter - it could be anything. But to have any sort of gap like that with your partner in which he/she is reticent to discuss at all, ever, doesn't exactly scream "I give you my all, and I trust you with everything".


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

richardsharpe said:


> Good afternoon all
> I think there is a big difference between asking out of curiosity and asking because you are judging. The way to tell is whether or not any answer you are at all likely to get would make you feel negatively about the other person:
> 
> A: Did you have a wild past?
> ...


I would fall into the non-judgemental response category for sure. My wife did not make that assumption of me, and regardless of my protests to the contrary, I still don't think she believes me.

I can't say this enough, but it's important to me at the beginning of a relationship in order that I know what I have on my hands, for lack of a better term. If my wife had gone to sex clubs in the past, then perhaps that is something she might still be interested in with me, for example. If she had threesomes and enjoyed them, then maybe that could be part of our life, too. Or not, if it's not something she wanted to pursue any further. I don't know, and I don't care. It's communication I'm after and being able to know what this person has or hasn't done (within reason, of course).

There's no worse feeling than catching your spouse in a lie, white or otherwise, or hearing a story from somebody else and looking at your partner with the "why didn't you tell me?" eyes. Unfortunately, that's happened to me, and I don't like it one bit. We got past it, I hope, but she now has a better understanding of what I expected early on in the relationship, and why.

Frankly, I think I'm stronger than many. I've seen threads here where things like that have led to breakups or divorce. I genuinely understand where this attitude of "I have to lie or keep my mouth shut" comes from. But usually these things have a way of coming out. My wife got the benefit of the doubt, and I respect her reasons for being closed-off like that, but I don't respect her feeling the need to lie or deflect. But it's also in the past now, more or less. That inauspicious beginning won't be forgotten, but it has been forgiven.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Wolf1974 said:


> Seems like this is where the thread is derailed for some. It's not the judgement of someone with a high or low number as good or bad. Rather it's a judgment of if that person they would work well
> In our life. We all get to make that judgement for our own life.
> 
> 
> My GF has A higher number than me and doesn't bother me. Her life circumstances were very different than mine. I spent most my adult life married and her single so they are going to be different. The only thing that would have been a deal breaker would have been if she wouldn't have been abley o sit down and have a frank discussion about our sexual past. Why anyone would be defensive about that I don't know but I am thankful every day for her emotional maturity


My wife has a higher number than me, too, and her life circumstances were very different than mine. Like you, I've been married, or otherwise in a LTR since my late teens, whereas she was not. Of course our experiences will have been different, and they just as easily could have been reversed. So from that standpoint, they don't bother me. It's not a competition.

While it wasn't a dealbreaker for me, it certainly made me think hard about whether she was the right one or not. Ultimately, I decided it's a relative non-issue, though the communication differences HAVE played a negative part in our relationship.

Like you, I have no idea why people get so defensive about it, either, but I do respect ones rights to not discuss things they don't want to discuss. But I have yet to come across anyone, here or in real life, who does not oppose it without fervor and defensiveness.

Furthermore, I find it rather disconcerting when these "secrets" are not really secrets at all, only to you, the supposed life partner and best friend. Some of that persons friends, or relatives, or co-workers might know all these things about them - the very things they so fervently try to keep from you.

More often than one would think, these things one is trying to keep from their partner don't necessarily have an adverse effect on anything whatsoever. A lot of the time, it's in that persons mind. They make assumptions that the other person will react in abject horror or judgement, and nobody wants to be judged that way, therefore they keep their little secret. The irony is that when you are trying to find a suitable partner, knowing these things are helpful. If you tell them your secret(s) and they react poorly, then you now know they are not a suitable partner for YOU. So by keeping these things secret (when asked) you are not doing either party any favors, imo.

I see it from this pov: if I did something in the past that was so horrible that it would likely remove half the available dating pool from me, I certainly wouldn't advertise it. However, if I meet a person who is interested in me, and they ask me directly "did you ever ____", I would not at all lie or deflect. I would answer truthfully, and if I felt I had to explain it, I would. Some of the time, that person would say "see ya", some of the time they'd say "oh, well, no worries". But at least they KNOW. Lying or deflecting removes their ability to generate an accurate, whole, idea of who you are, in any way that matters to them.

I have had that very same discussion with my wife, and she now understands. I have straight up told her, I have no desire to know her secrets at this point - she can keep them. But at the time at which we were BOTH determining if we would be a suitable match, she did both of us a great disservice by lying or deflecting, especially because I did not.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Thor said:


> How about these alternative judgments:
> 
> 1) Hmm, sex clubs and orgies are not compatible with my views of sex, even when single. We are likely to have some significant differences in our views on sexuality and on relationships.
> 
> ...


That's the thing: the person being asked these invasive questions doesn't know whether their answer will be okay or not.

So rather than answer truthfully (or at all) they'll make the assumption that you are asking in order to pass negative judgement on them.

If that IS why they're asking, then **** 'em, they're not right for you. And now you know. But if they're totally okay, or even embrace your answer, then you know they're okay with YOU. perceived warts and all.

But why would you limit yourself in gaining this knowledge about your prospective partner? It benefits you, too. I would much rather live my life knowing I have a partner who is okay (or better) with my past experiences than one who I can only ASSUME wouldn't be, therefore I keep things to myself, and god forbid they found out about it because they may dump my ass right then and there. I'd much rather know they're okay with it (then the relationship can proceed) or not (and it can be ended right there) then always have that hanging over my head.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Thor said:


> This may not make sense to many of the more prickly people here, whom I suspect have had negative experiences and been judged for their numbers, but I was attracted to my wife in part because she was sexually much freer than I and she was more experienced than I. To me it was a positive in many ways.


And there it is!

I feel the EXACT same way. I was not afforded the opportunity to be as sexually free as my wife, and I AM attracted to her because she was. But because she is so closed-off about it, it is no longer as attractive anymore. I do still like that she is experienced and knows what she's doing, and what she likes, but because she's so closeted about it, it definitely takes away a lot of that attraction.

I have had a smallish number of partners (5 intercourse, a handful more other things) and generally speaking, none were all that experienced. It wasn't super-important for me to find an experienced partner, but it was a bonus, for sure. In the bedroom, for the first time in my life, I have a partner who knows what she's doing, and more importantly, knows exactly what she likes and doesn't like. I've had my fun experimenting with women and being experimented on, so to say. Now both parties know what we're doing and how to do it, and how to do it to each other, and it's a whole 'nother level.

She just assumed I'd be put off by it.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

maybe the issue could be boiled down into even simpler terms:

what if a guy just has a preference for women (as a potential life partner) that are not sexually experienced. or a preference for those that are. so he needs some understanding of the number, or number range, to make that assessment.
is that any different, say, than a woman preferring her male partners to be a certain height? its just that the sexual stuff is not readily apparent......


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

alexm said:


> I would much rather live my life knowing I have a partner who is okay (or better) with my past experiences than one who I can only ASSUME wouldn't be, therefore I keep things to myself, and god forbid they found out about it because they may dump my ass right then and there.


My wife's lies and deceptions about her past have caused me a lot of grief. The content, the facts she hid, those do have some importance. I probably would not have stayed with her if I had known all of it when we were dating, but IDK for sure. Today the content is irrelevant.

But the lies? Now those are hugely relevant and a very serious problem in our relationship. Discovering the lies, and knowing there are more lies but not knowing exactly what they are, pulls the rug out from underneath us. Our entire relationship comes into question. What else has she deceived me about?

There's another thread on exactly this effect going on right now, http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/210938-contact-lies-about-past.html, and we see it frequently on TAM.

The lie is far worse than what is being hidden. If what is being hidden is bad enough to scare someone off at the beginning of a relationship, then the lie is enough to kill the marriage years or decades later when the lie is uncovered.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Thor said:


> My wife's lies and deceptions about her past have caused me a lot of grief. The content, the facts she hid, those do have some importance. I probably would not have stayed with her if I had known all of it when we were dating, but IDK for sure. Today the content is irrelevant.
> 
> But the lies? Now those are hugely relevant and a very serious problem in our relationship. Discovering the lies, and knowing there are more lies but not knowing exactly what they are, pulls the rug out from underneath us. Our entire relationship comes into question. What else has she deceived me about?
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

Let ME be the one to decide if it's a no-go because of something, rather than assume it WILL be.

If someone has asked, it's important to them. It may not be asked in a tactful manner, and that may be an issue, but all the same.

And if someone asks you questions that you have no desire to talk about, then you can make the decision whether this person is right for you or not.

I am like you, Thor, the lies are what hurt, not the subject matter. Maybe some things would have been off-putting back then, but that's for ME to decide.

My wife is not a liar by nature, but she is defensive. Sometimes the defense mechanism is for her to lie, because there's no other way out of it. This is a shame to me, because I don't feel like I can ask her anything that is even remotely touchy, whether it's about sex or not. It could be anything.

I know it sounds silly, but other than that, she's an honest person. She's not the type to outright lie about something pre-emptively, if that makes sense. It's always a defensive thing, and it appears it's only when she feels cornered somehow (which is not uncommon, sadly).

As a whole, I trust her. I know WHEN to trust her. I know which situations hold the potential for her to be cornered or trapped and allow the defense mechanism to kick in. It's juvenile and shows a lack of maturity in that area, but it can be lived with on my part.

I caught myself just a few months ago. The subject of threesomes came up. Of course, stupid, blunt me says "have you ever had one?", genuinely interested, and with not a tinge of RJ or condescension or whatever. The second the words escaped my lips, I knew that no matter what the truth was, I already knew what her answer was going to be


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

My wife is scrupulously honest in business dealings and in all personal dealings outside of the marriage. The very close nature of a marriage is where she becomes defensive and dishonest. Strange.


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

Some personal sh!t in here.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Middle of Everything said:


> Some personal sh!t in here.


There's personal **** in every thread here, dude. That's kind of what this place is for.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Thor said:


> My wife is scrupulously honest in business dealings and in all personal dealings outside of the marriage. The very close nature of a marriage is where she becomes defensive and dishonest. Strange.


Mine too. Weird, huh?

My wife is historically more comfortable being open with people she's not romantically involved with.

I chalk it up to some sort of fear of losing me. That's all I can think of. I wish she'd allow me to accept her for who she is, though.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

alexm said:


> *I chalk it up to some sort of fear of losing me. That's all I can think of. I wish she'd allow me to accept her for who she is, though.*


Sounds she is unfairly assuming you will be like others may be to her...even though you are NOT this way...but she has vowed to never go again there with someone she loves because someone before you may have tore her to pieces.. like giving "our pearls to swine" sort of thing... It's not fair to you, one who would love and protect her -no matter, you just want to be close to her, ... but she hasn't allowed herself this faith ..... at least not at this time.... it's purely about vulnerability..and many struggle here... 

Take a moment ... on the 1st line in this link is a 20 minute video to explain WHY people FEAR to go here...even the author herself fought it....she is Brene Brown, the "shame" researcher...yet it brings us the greatest connection with others.. though in her book, it does speak to be very careful who we allow in..to these deep places.. one who has proven over time they are worthy of this sharing.. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...r-its-pain-its-beauty-how-vulnerable-you.html

If you have talked, shared, and done all you possibly can to reach her.. it may be something you just have to accept about her, sounds you have surly tried.

In the book "His Needs/ Her Needs"...one of the emotional needs discussed out of the 10 is "Openness & Honesty" ...it sounds this one is higher on the bar for you... this being given freely , willingly makes you feel much closer to someone...I am like you in this too.... you know there is nothing wrong with how you feel in this..this would explain it.. 



> Honesty and Openness
> 
> Most of us want an honest relationship with our spouse. But some people have a need for honesty and openness -- it gives them a sense of security and helps them become emotionally bonded to the one who meets that need.
> Those with a need for honesty and openness want accurate information about their spouses' thoughts, feelings, habits, likes, dislikes, personal history, daily activities and plans for the future. If their spouse
> ...


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

alexm...Maybe I missed something. Did your wife lie to you about this stuff upfront? I thought I had read all the posts but...now I'm confused. "I wish she'd allow me to accept her for who she is"...means what exactly? And how does this play into asexuality, for instance, being that you also need to accept her on that level for who she is?


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Faithful Wife said:


> alexm...Maybe I missed something. Did your wife lie to you about this stuff upfront? I thought I had read all the posts but...now I'm confused. "I wish she'd allow me to accept her for who she is"...means what exactly? And how does this play into asexuality, for instance, being that you also need to accept her on that level for who she is?


Yes... and no. It's difficult to explain.

When we first met (well, reconnected after 15 years), she never portrayed herself as virginal or anything like that. As we were getting to know each other again, we both went through our very basic history of the time we were apart. Keep in mind we were both each others firsts when we were teenagers. So basically, we "caught up" with each other, in terms of relationships.

We traded our histories, me fully disclosing everything (of which there wasn't a lot. Basically 3 years with her, a few months single and casually dating, met my ex wife, together 14 years, single and not dating at all for a few months, reconnected with her. Pretty straight forward). She knows what my number is, in other words.

She filled me in on the long relationships she had, and nothing else. No worries. Gave me a good idea of where they went wrong, all that stuff that's important. I never asked, nor needed to know about all the "other" stuff. Unimportant. Though, as we were getting to know each other a bit more, both of us would casually ask something here or there.

Throughout the first year or two we were together, enough stories popped up from friends or relatives that I started to feel really out of the loop. It was a lot of "hey, remember this time/guy/experience?" etc. Nothing super graphic for the most part, but a couple of things I wish I hadn't heard. Again, not a huge deal. The handful of LTR's she told me about weren't the only guys she'd ever been with or experiences she'd had. Duh.

The problem was, some of these things directly contradicted what she had told me - voluntarily I might add, or with no pressure.

A good example, and this sounds SO stupid typing this out... She's always been a plus-sized woman. VERY curvy and sexy and proportionate. Voluptuous. Black men are always looking at her, and she said they made up like 90% of the guys that hit on her. I remember saying something completely innocuous along the lines of how popular she was/is, especially at clubs and that sort of thing amongst black men. She responded with how she had never dated or been with a black man before, and I remember thinking to myself "I didn't ask you that... but okay".

So at some point, one of her friends started talking about their younger days, and without getting into too much detail, "remember that black guy you were with?"

So that sort of thing. I guess that would constitute a lie, and one that she voluntarily made without me asking her directly. I have yet to figure out why that's something she'd lie about. Did she assume I'm some sort of racist?

So in a nutshell, none of these things that have turned out to be lies or inconstancies were things that *I* directly asked her about. She's apparently made assumptions (perhaps knowing my own relatively tame history) that I would frown upon her otherwise normal behavior. It's hearing stories or anecdotes from others that I had no idea about, and some of them contradicting things that she had said to me at some point or other. It's like she was purposefully downplaying this past history that she assumed I would not be thrilled with (???)

The irony is that the things she DID tell me about, her LTR's that did not work, were more concerning to me than the rest of it. Of course I was slightly concerned that she had 4 or 5 long relationships, live-in relationships, one that resulted in children, and none of them worked out. THAT'S more concerning than whatever her number is and (jesus) what race she's slept with. But with that, she was perfectly happy to tell me all about it.

Like I said, just a few months ago, I very casually asked her if she had ever had a threesome before - purely out of curiosity. I don't know anybody who has, and I'm not a total prude. Before she could answer, I realized that if she says "no", she could be telling the truth, or lying. I'll never know. (unless one of her friends says something of course... sigh).

THAT'S what I don't like. I can't trust what she says when it comes to things like that, as she's already proven several times that she is okay with hiding things from me when it comes to that subject. I HATE that. Be open with me. I'm not judging (I've told her that).


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I see, and I understand more where you are coming from. I hate to say this but I think part of the real problem here is that you were on the rebound from your first marriage, didn't date around, and hooked back with up first girlfriend. I know it doesn't make sense, but rebound relationships almost always have this kind of problems...where one or both of you completely overlooked something that is a big deal or many big deals.

How have you been coping with the asexuality thing, have you two discussed it more? I think you had put it to her to step up a make you feel wanted even if she wasn't feeling it. Has she?


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

alexm said:


> Like I said, just a few months ago, I very casually asked her if she had ever had a threesome before - purely out of curiosity. I don't know anybody who has, and I'm not a total prude. Before she could answer, I realized that if she says "no", she could be telling the truth, or lying. I'll never know. (unless one of her friends says something of course... sigh).
> 
> THAT'S what I don't like. I can't trust what she says when it comes to things like that, as she's already proven several times that she is okay with hiding things from me when it comes to that subject. I HATE that. Be open with me. I'm not judging (I've told her that).


Have you told her this? Perhaps give this as an example of what her dishonesty is doing to you and your relationship?


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Have you told her this? Perhaps give this as an example of what her dishonesty is doing to you and your relationship?


Definitely, but what's the point anymore? It's already done, know what I mean? At the time in our relationship that these things mattered, they were overlooked. Now, they really don't matter, except when something comes up that's contradictory or surprising. Hasn't happened in a few years, though, so that's good.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Faithful Wife said:


> I see, and I understand more where you are coming from. I hate to say this but I think part of the real problem here is that you were on the rebound from your first marriage, didn't date around, and hooked back with up first girlfriend. I know it doesn't make sense, but rebound relationships almost always have this kind of problems...where one or both of you completely overlooked something that is a big deal or many big deals.


I wouldn't say we were a rebound. She was single (allegedly... See what I mean? sigh) for about a year before we got together.

I can see where you could say that about me. I won't get defensive about it, but I can honestly say that the last two years of my marriage weren't much of a marriage. My current wife and I re-connected while I was still married to my ex (though kept things friendly only, not even flirty). She didn't magically appear once my ex and I split up, we were already friends by that point. Our relationship did not develop until 3-ish months afterwards.

Rebound? No. BUT, perhaps I didn't place as heavy an emphasis on being a great match as I should have. Compared to my ex wife, my current wife and I were perfect and I had no complaints. But reality has set in, I suppose, and I do realize we aren't as perfect a match as I thought. We ARE still very very good, though, in many ways.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

If you started dating her 3 months after you left your wife without dating anyone else first, yes, that is a rebound. Which doesn't mean anything except she was the first one after your split and you didn't give yourself enough time to adjust and get over all the stuff you have to go through after a big split. There are usually problems like the ones you are describing in rebound relationships (though there are problems in almost all relationships and some are the exact same type of problems).

What about the asexuality or sex stuff? Have you had any more talks about this? Are you happy where things are at right now?


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

I wouldn't say that just because neither of us had dated anyone since our exes meant we were a rebound. I always took the term "rebound" to mean "I'm free now, so I'm looking and just about anyone will do!"

Like I said, we had a history together, and we also had been hanging out a bit before my marriage went South, mutual friends and all that. And she hadn't dated anyone in almost a year (well, two coffee dates that went nowhere). It took us 3 months of hanging out more and more when I was newly single for both of us to realize we enjoyed our company in a more than friendly way.

To me, rebound means I'm out looking.

Yeah, some progress and acceptance. Definitely looking better, but time will tell!


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

alexm said:


> I wouldn't say that just because neither of us had dated anyone since our exes meant we were a rebound. I always took the term "rebound" to mean "I'm free now, so I'm looking and just about anyone will do!"
> 
> Like I said, we had a history together, and we also had been hanging out a bit before my marriage went South, mutual friends and all that. And she hadn't dated anyone in almost a year (well, two coffee dates that went nowhere). It took us 3 months of hanging out more and more when I was newly single for both of us to realize we enjoyed our company in a more than friendly way.
> 
> ...


We aren't using the same term for rebound then, but no matter really.

Yay re: the bolded part! :smthumbup:


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## kilgoreisme (Aug 6, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> I guess I don't see why it matters to any of US as individuals what OTHER people do in this regard. We ask or don't ask, as we see fit and for our own reasons...but if other people ask or don't ask, who cares?


fwiw, my wife and i have never discussed our #


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

I guess using the term "my number" is really a misnomer, isn't it? I mean, the actual number really doesn't matter to most/anyone. I guess if you're really finicky and need to know exactly, then it's important.

I think, at least from where I stand, a general idea of your partner's past is somewhat important. I can also understand why it isn't, provided both parties are uninterested. But everybody attacks relationships in a different manner. For me, I believe strongly in sharing everything. Not for the sake of "knowing", but because I believe a marriage is a union of two people, essentially becoming one.

However, I venture to say that one can usually tell with some accuracy, early on in a relationship, if your partner has more or less experience than you do. So I suppose, when all is said and done, nobody really needs to have this conversation in the first place. These things are usually pretty obvious, coming from how they speak, how they act, how they are in bed even. Not to mention how they interact with others, friends or otherwise.

My conclusion from all of this is that it IS still important to be on the same page as your partner. How you go about determining if you are similar is up to you and them.

Furthermore, I also conclude that lying or hiding things early on in the relationship is far more damaging than any of the alternatives.

People don't need to be proud of their past, nor do they have to embrace it, but pretending none of it happened (or burying it, hiding it from somebody who is important to you) isn't a great alternative, either. It's silly. If you want to be with someone who loves you, ALL of you, then there's no use in keeping things from them.

Personally, I wanted to know everything about my wife, simply because it brings us closer. Knowing only the "good" things about somebody is only one side. Not only does it portray a more accurate representation of each other, it also allows one another to show trust, as in "not many people know about this". It also conveys vulnerability, which implies that one IS interested in giving their all to the other. 

They way I feel, years later, is that my wife is unable to give herself entirely to me.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

The number truly doesn't matter to me...everyone has a past.

But I do think honesty is important in these discussions, for one ESSENTIAL (IMO) reason and one beneficial but not necessary one.

The beneficial one is this...I think we are a sum of the experiences, choices, and emotional reactions we have went through in the past. I have no problem sharing my past cause I want a partner to truly know me.

I think its equally good if I know her.

The ESSENTIAL thing is I would want to know if she had ever cheated in the past.

I would never rub her face in it or insult her over it, but I would make sure that the relationship never began to move into a serious phase....I would gently bring it to a close.

I refuse to have a serious relationship or M with a known cheater.


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## lovelost2soon (Aug 9, 2014)

Numbers would matter to me. If someone slept with 50, 30 or even 20 ppl before me I would have an issue with that. I'm not saying people who have done that that there is anything wrong with them, it's just not the type of person I would want to be with. There must have never been a serious enough relationship which would otherwise be in my head that maybe he wasn't capable of one if he had so many partners in the past. I'm not judging just giving my opinion.........


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