# International Marriage crumbling faster than...



## Amazon007 (Mar 21, 2015)

Hello, So I currently live in Japan, I have done so for the past 5 years. During my first year, I met my now wife (Japanese), we started dating (we were each others first relationship). Fast forward 6 months, I proposed, and now next month we are coming up on our 2 year anniversary...

During the dating stage, love was hot and heavy. She was a virgin, so we took it slow at first. We were very much in love and after 2 years of dating, we sealed the knot and were married. Then we moved in with each other..

About a month after moving in, my wife became pregnant. I should mention that her sexual drive was pretty low from the beginning, however, we were still doing it 3 or so times a week. 

After she got pregnant, she didn't like the idea of having sex anymore, and wanted to focus on the baby. I understood, for the most part, and didn't force the issue. Then after the baby was born, a month later, we had intercourse for the first time in about 7 months (however, I should mention that during the pregnancy, she would occasionally give me BJs, handjobs, etc).

After the baby was 4 months old, she started to become very cold towards me. Now the baby is 10 months old, and for the past 6 months there has been NO sex, no sexual contact whatsoever (she doesn't like to even hug me anymore). 

At first, I thought it was because of the trauma due to giving childbirth, than there was breastfeeding, but now... None of that is still present. She stopped breastfeeding 4 months ago, and she has even said her body has returned to pre-birth level.

Whenever I show any type of affection she is completely turned off. Almost as if disgusted by it. She often says "we should try living separately" maybe with space we can rekindle the love or something.. The ironic part is, she often likes to joke around with me etc. Laugh, watch movies, etc. But If I was to touch her, or say, "I love you etc" its like I am stabbing her with a knife... I just don't get it. I have tried to get her to want to go out on a date, just the two of us, but she is not interested...

For the past 6 months i have been completely starved any-type of physical, emotional connection with my wife and its killing me. I don''t know what to do or what she expects me to do. 

I have contemplated giving in and telling her we should try living separately, but I don't want to be away from my daughter (10 months now). So I am at a loss as to what to do. I still love my wife, but the fact that she shows no affection towards me is just making me go crazy. Its like the past love just evaporated into thin air.

She is constantly getting angry at me over the smallest things, constantly puts me down, to the point where I would say its almost verbal abuse. When I took the vow when we got married, I was convinced I found my soul-mates, and I still am, I still want to live with her and be with her for the rest of my life. But, how can either of us be truly happy in the current situation? I really don't know what kind of advice could help my situation but at the least writing it all out has made me feel better. 

Thank You for reading.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

This is sad . Unless you think she could be depressed or something, it sounds like she is no longer physically attracted to you. Are you positive there's nobody else?


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

Women marry men expecting them to change, and they don't.

Men marry women expecting them to stay the same, and they don't.

Put your efforts into figuring out what changed. You may be able to fix it, but it sounds like you're going to have a rough time of it.

Read No More Mr. Nice Guy, and Married Man Sex Life Primer. 

The 5 Languages of Love might also help you.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Do you communicate in Japanese. Family law in Japan is notoriously ethnocentric. Do you want to stay Japan for the rest of your life?

Read neuklas's thread.

Does her family like you?

Is she disappointed with your socio-economic status?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

You didn't state what culture you are from. If it is very different the exotic excitement of dating a gaijin may have been enough to fuel her feelings. It is possible that the excitement has worn off and the reality may be that you do not match the inherent ideal of a nihonjin. As LongWalk implied Japananease are more class status conscious than other cultures. 

I would recommend finding a friend you can trust and find out if you need to man-up as a nihonjin. All interactions including sex are seen a bit differently and there are different protocols and expectations that you may be missing that is helping to make you look unmanly and unattractive in her eyes. Consider how you station effects how she is seen as a woman and how it reflects upon her status.


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## Amazon007 (Mar 21, 2015)

SecondTime'Round said:


> This is sad . Unless you think she could be depressed or something, it sounds like she is no longer physically attracted to you. Are you positive there's nobody else?


At the beginning, she appeared to have bouts of depression (after the baby was born). But over time, this seemed to get better. I am positive there is no one else, or rather 99% sure. 




NotLikeYou said:


> Women marry men expecting them to change, and they don't.
> 
> Men marry women expecting them to stay the same, and they don't.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the suggestions, I will look into the books you mentioned. Appreciate it.



LongWalk said:


> Do you communicate in Japanese. Family law in Japan is notoriously ethnocentric. Do you want to stay Japan for the rest of your life?
> 
> Read neuklas's thread.
> 
> ...


Yes, we communicate in Japanese. Her mother raised her and her sister from the beginning, (father left when my wife was 1 year old). So she never had a male influence in her life...

I would like to stay in Japan, after being here for such a long time I consider it my second home.. Well, her family (sister / mother) did NOT like me at the beginning. But they started to slowly warm up to it and now I feel are fairly neutral towards me.. 

Can you link me to neuklas post? I would be very interested in reading it.



meson said:


> You didn't state what culture you are from. If it is very different the exotic excitement of dating a gaijin may have been enough to fuel her feelings. It is possible that the excitement has worn off and the reality may be that you do not match the inherent ideal of a nihonjin. As LongWalk implied Japananease are more class status conscious than other cultures.
> 
> I would recommend finding a friend you can trust and find out if you need to man-up as a nihonjin. All interactions including sex are seen a bit differently and there are different protocols and expectations that you may be missing that is helping to make you look unmanly and unattractive in her eyes. Consider how you station effects how she is seen as a woman and how it reflects upon her status.


Ah yes, sorry. I am American 26 years old (we met when I was 22 and she was 23-- now she is 27). Well, she often tells me I have "girl like" qualities. Which makes no sense. Example, I told her that "oh look this is the first restaurant we ate at when we were dating" (while driving). Then she fires back with "why are you such a girl, saying stuff like that etc"... 

When I speak up, she gets really angry and the confrontation gets worse. When she gets angry, and I let it slide, I feel she sees me as weak... She often says its like she is living with two children (me and my daughter...) Really confusing. 

Some extra information: She cooks, cleans, takes care of our daughter very well. She is going back to work after taking a year break to take care of the baby. I help clean around the house, change diapers, clothes, wash the dishes, make the bed, hang the clothes etc. I work 60 plus hours a week and work my ass off at home as well. I am not sure what she wants from me...


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Here is neuklas's thread

You have explained quite a bit.

Your wife wants a more masculine version of you. She wants a leader. She doesn't want a sensitive needy guy. After you read neuklas's thread, you need to craft a strategy to match his. 

You should take an hour out of every day to work out. Go to a gym and take up martial arts. Since you are not getting laid put your energy into physical improvement. Don't ask her permission. Just do it. Even if all you do to get in shape is go to a gym, build up your upper body. Rowing machine and free weights.

Listen to your wife. Talk less. Act more. She needs to see that you have the self confidence to move on without her. You are not a nice guy. Stop being one.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

You could fly Neuklas all the way to Tokyo and it won't do you a bit of good.

From the start she was not into the physical part of the relationship. The pregnancy and baby took care of that as well. She never had positive role models growing up and you're now at the same point where her own father abandoned them.

If Japanese culture is as male focused and sexist as other Asian cultures in the area, it could also be that you're up against culture as well where some women simply want to "get even" with their perceived "male oppressors"...

So you're fighting culture, upbringing, possible depression, probable unfulfilled expectations, competing with the baby for attention, with a wife that is clearly demonstrating she wants no part of you, and to top it all off you're a stranger in a strange land.

This sounds a bit too close to home, and I would save you the trouble and gas forward to the last chapter and say it hasn't gone well for me either. You may address an issue or two in the list but not 4 or 5.


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## Amazon007 (Mar 21, 2015)

LongWalk said:


> Here is neuklas's thread
> 
> You have explained quite a bit.
> 
> ...


Thank you for all the suggestions, I think you nailed it right on the head. I am going to implement your suggestions and work out and see where it goes.. The only thing I fear is that it will be to little to late. I will give you an example. 

My wife makes all the meals, she believes I am unable to cook for myself... So I offered to cut up the vegetables, she wasnt that happy, but eventually let me do it. Then while i am doing it, she makes a remark like "Stop trying to do things you normally dont do, its weird and off-putting".... Huh?!

Also I tried to click on neuklas thread but it gave me an error saying i dont have access to that page... 



john117 said:


> You could fly Neuklas all the way to Tokyo and it won't do you a bit of good.
> 
> From the start she was not into the physical part of the relationship. The pregnancy and baby took care of that as well. She never had positive role models growing up and you're now at the same point where her own father abandoned them.
> 
> ...


This post really resonated with me. I feel that you touched on all aspects of our relationship.. At first there was the "foreigner status" that made me special and stand out, but now that was worn off completely. I think she does have bouts of depression / anger management issues.... And your right, I think its safe to say I gross her out... Example:

She is in bed now, on her phone. I slide in next to her and the first thing she says is, "uhh why did you come? Dont get in my way, I am busy". What was she doing? She was surfing a recipe site....

In the past she has said "When it was just the two of us, I could see us making it work, but now that the baby is here, she just doesnt see a future with me."

Now the strange bit is she has no interest in other guys, or so she says, and at the same time a week or so ago she said she wants to feel "love"again... Sigh.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

Amazon007 said:


> Ah yes, sorry. I am American 26 years old (we met when I was 22 and she was 23-- now she is 27). Well, she often tells me I have "girl like" qualities. Which makes no sense. Example, I told her that "oh look this is the first restaurant we ate at when we were dating" (while driving). Then she fires back with "why are you such a girl, saying stuff like that etc"...
> 
> When I speak up, she gets really angry and the confrontation gets worse. *When she gets angry, and I let it slide, I feel she sees me as weak...* She often says its like she is living with two children (me and my daughter...) Really confusing.


She sees you as week because you are the head of the household and you are not demanding that you be treated with respect. It's all about respect. I agree that you should study a martial art also. Not just for the improving yourself and fitness but because of the teacher student relationship. Look at how the teacher demands respect and how everyone shows respect. Because you are the head of the household you need to demand similar respect. 

Japanease romances are not like western romances. Read Musashi and the Tale of Genji for an idea of what romance is like in Japan. The romantic way you are acting does not match her cultural expectations.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

LongWalk said:


> Here is neuklas's thread
> 
> You have explained quite a bit.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

Yes, less words and more action. There is much more emphasis on proper action in Japan.


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## lancaster (Dec 2, 2013)

International marriages are difficult. I am from the US. My wife is from Latin America. 

I get the "you should no how to do this because you are a man" or "you need to man up." Like you I cook, I help clean and I am expected to do all the yard work(mans job.) 
I spent 20 years in the Air Force and deployed overseas several times. So I think it ironic that she tells me to manup. 

She tells me I am not like the men in her family. They are all professionals, but none have seen combat. 

What is also interesting is that her family members warn me about her temper.

I am under the impression that Japanese are a very mucho culture kind of like South American. It sees we have similar issues. I also have a small son. 

I suggest you try counseling. My wife and I tried it. But for whatever reason she decided to stop going. So I stopped going to. I still do individual. After a hiatus of about 4 months she has again started screaming and swearing at me, this time infront of our child. That is pretty much the last straw for. I promised her I would help her out of debt. But after that I think I am done. I will not be belittled infront of our son.

Op I wish you all the best and hope you find a solution to your marriage that works.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

John,

I am not optimistic about OP's situation. However, I will bet that a change in behavior accompanied by a sense of humor may work. Humor indicates superior understanding and could help. OP needs to laugh about this morass because it's going suck him down if he doesn't get it under control.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

The newness has worn off your relationship for her. She doesn't respect you (and you will never have a successful marriage if she doesn't). There are lots of self-help books out there if you are a reader (I don't know if Japanese culture is receptive to marriage counseling but that could be a tremendous help). 

Marriage in general can be difficult but people from different cultures usually have an added layer of difficulty to deal with.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> John,
> 
> I am not optimistic about OP's situation. However, I will a change in behavior accompanied by a sense of humor may work. Humor indicates superior understanding and could help. OP needs to laugh about this morass because it's going suck him down if he doesn't get it under control.



Humor hasn't helped me much and I have humor skills that are significantly above normal. I have also dealt extensively with Japanese customers and their sense of humor is, how to say, very undeveloped or differently developed than ours.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

I had contacts with Japanese during study and work when I lived in Asia. For sure they are extremely earnest at some profound level. It is no accident that German and Japanese get things done. They are more likely to say what them mean and mean what they say. They believe in duty. 

There are hilarious people in all cultures, despite the weak national funny bones. The Irish are good talkers. The French have their sarcasm.

For the OP in Japan the humor is necessary to gain distance, for his own sake.

Japan is a very difficult country for happy relationships. A Chinese colleague told me in the 80s that Japanese school girls prostituted themselves to earn spending money. I didn't believe him but it's true.

Years ago I read a short story about a English teacher in Japan who had an affair with the daughter of a gangster – she was one of his students – and the father was so angry at her that he stuck her foot between some rails so that a train eliminated the disgrace. So to be sure there many cultural norms that complicate international marriages. I am the product of such a relationship and there are aspects of cultural divide that are never bridged.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

And that is why Intercultural marriages are such a bad idea. It's marital Darwinism at it's finest...If they work all is good, if they don't...

(Half seriously considers writing an academic paper on the subject )

A friend married a Japanese woman and they're about as happy as it gets. But he speaks the language and lived there for years. They are a great people and have their own deeply rooted traditions, not quite the "let's pack up and move" American mentality.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

john117 said:


> And that is why Intercultural marriages are such a bad idea. It's marital Darwinism at it's finest...If they work all is good, if they don't...
> 
> (Half seriously considers writing an academic paper on the subject )
> 
> A friend married a Japanese woman and they're about as happy as it gets. But he speaks the language and lived there for years. They are a great people and have their own deeply rooted traditions, not quite the "let's pack up and move" American mentality.


I dont think all intercultural marriages are bad necessarily, they just have added complications I guess due to differences in cultures and expectations of the roles of wives and husbands. i am in one and although it's not the best right now (we are working on it) it has added a different dimension to my life which I glad for, further the kids are pretty cute


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Amazon007 said:


> Hello, So I currently live in Japan, I have done so for the past 5 years. During my first year, I met my now wife (Japanese), we started dating (we were each others first relationship). Fast forward 6 months, I proposed, and now next month we are coming up on our 2 year anniversary...
> 
> During the dating stage, love was hot and heavy. She was a virgin, so we took it slow at first. We were very much in love and after 2 years of dating, we sealed the knot and were married. Then we moved in with each other..
> 
> ...


I think you need to do some research and find out what exactly are the gender roles and sexual issues in Japan with regards to marriage. You cannot assume they are the same as what you grew up with. Her expectations may be very different from yours in terms of the roles you fulfill in your marriage. From what I have read often in Japanese marriages, once the first kid comes the wife is no longer considered as being sexually desirable anymore and the mother becomes more of a relative or friend. This type of thinking has spawned a huge sex industry in japan, as the men stay married but have extramarital affairs, its is very much part of the culture. You need to arm yourself with knowledge, sit down and talk to her and explain your culture and expectations as head of the household. She may very well be categorizing you in the Japanese mold.


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## Amazon007 (Mar 21, 2015)

I had wrote out quite a lengthy post and then it said it has to be vetted before being posted... Its been a day so I guess its fair to say it got lost somewhere... Anyways:

Thank you all for your suggestions, I appreciate each and everyone of them. As far as neuklas's thread. when I click on the link LongWalk it says I dont have permission to view the page..

I think all of you have touched on something that I thought about deep down and have to just implement. I feel our relationship slipping, I still have strong feelings for her, but as she continues to put up her guard, or rather reject any sort of advances from me, I have to say it is reducing my feelings towards the relationship.. 

I am going to get a gym membership / sign up for some type of martial arts classes to get better in shape for myself first, and hope it has a trickle down affect in this relationship. I will also look into the books mentioned and see if i can gain a better picture as to what exactly she expects my role to be... Talking about it with her usually ends in fights, more misunderstandings etc so I need to better arm myself with information other ways.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Maybe neuklas's thread is in the private section. You'll be able to go there after 30 posts.

Relationship discussions are generally counterproductive.

In China, getting married in Western style wedding dresses is a big thing among certain classes. People pay huge amounts of money to photographers and take wedding pictures of weddings that didn't really happen. It is possible that your wife had some cultural norms that she chucked to be with you. But once marriage became everyday, then some of those norms loomed over your happiness and cast a dark shadow. You couldn't see them. That makes her even madder.

However at the end of the day, masculinity and self confidence can defeat these. You can be certain that it if you lost your job, your wife would treat you even worse, if that is possible.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Yes, neuklas is private but you will get to 30 posts soon enough if you stay at this. Here, though, is what he advised another:



> I've finished reading your thread. The advice of the last several pages is gold.
> 
> I'd add the following, which is really regurgitation, but intended more as a short list of unambiguous action items to do right now, as I think you're at the stage where simplicity is best, and once the simple is ingrained habit, you can built on you.
> 
> ...


If you go to the gym and do martial arts you will gain goals for self improvement. 

One of the things I noticed about Japan is that men sometimes had to spend long evenings out socializing for company business after putting in a long day at the office. This was a duty for social networking. Japanese couples in these screwed up relationships endure without relationship talk. Very different norms. Underneath its about the selfish gene but cultures are different.


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## Amazon007 (Mar 21, 2015)

LongWalk said:


> Yes, neuklas is private but you will get to 30 posts soon enough if you stay at this. Here, though, is what he advised another:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Very true, most Japanese men, in the workforce, work very long hours, (my Japanese friends tend to work from 7 AM to 9-10 PM every day sometimes weekends). I, on the other-hand, work from 8 AM - 4 PM. Also as an English teacher, I have long spring / summer and winter breaks. I once made the mistake as to telling my wife that sometimes at work, I have a lot of free time (no classes) and ever since then, she has had a very negative opinion of my job. 

I think a lot of this started last year, in the summer time. The baby was 2 months old, and my 7 week summer break had started... I helped around the house, etc, but I believe in her eyes, at the time I didn't do enough. She has told me on numerous occasions that she thinks my job is far to lenient and thinks it doesn't prepare me for the "real world". 

I think that she would be happier if I was paid less and worked longer hours... She once told me a saying in Japanese saying that "a husband that is not home often causes a happy family".


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

My wife is Central Asian but works Japanese hours. I work European bank hours unless overtime is paid. She considers me to be a slacker 

Maybe your wife needs to see the rest of the world some to realize that's not how it needs to be.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Well, you have answered an essential question. Your wife doesn't like your profession because it is not an alpha male job. That is a fundamental divide that you can never close no matter how much dirt you shovel into it.

Perhaps you have some additional professional ambitions? Do you want more money?

In any case, while you think this over invest in yourself. May the gym a daily thing.

Do not talk as much with your wife. Read about the 180. Your words and actions need to have greater value for your wife.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

That explains why she doesn't respect you. 

I've read that Japanese men often literally work themselves to death for their families. That work ethic is what she knows and what she respects and what she wants from you. 

The question is whether you could or would do that for her or whether she is capable of adjusting what she expects from you.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Back in 2005 we were doing a project for a very famous Japanese company. The funniest three years ever. They sent us one of their engineers whose job was literally to babysit us into working 12-14 hour days. This worked well as my company has a policy of paid overtime so we racked up some serious $. 

Still, to have an early 30's attractive young woman sit with us in that way was quite funny.


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## Amazon007 (Mar 21, 2015)

john117 said:


> My wife is Central Asian but works Japanese hours. I work European bank hours unless overtime is paid. She considers me to be a slacker
> 
> Maybe your wife needs to see the rest of the world some to realize that's not how it needs to be.


I agree, main issue with our relationship, that she has pointed out earlier, was that we were both each others "first." Thus with no prior experience, she can't compare me to anyone but her imaginative ideal perfect husband..



LongWalk said:


> Well, you have answered an essential question. Your wife doesn't like your profession because it is not an alpha male job. That is a fundamental divide that you can never close no matter how much dirt you shovel into it.
> 
> Perhaps you have some additional professional ambitions? Do you want more money?
> 
> ...


The main issue is, I can speak Japanese and understand it to a very high caliber, however, my reading / writing is very poor. Thus, my job prospects in Japan other than in the teaching field are very limited. I have considered working towards my MA in English and possibly moving up to teach at the university level, however, due to money constraints I don't see this as a viable possibility at this time. 

I have yet to start going to the gym, however, I hope to start going starting this week. It doesn't help that I have been having back problems for a few weeks now, so I am unsure how much / how fast I can began working out, but I am willing to start slow and work my way up.. Just for added information, I am 6 feet tall / 165 lbs. I am not fat, but I guess I would fall in the "skinny fat" category as I have a small mid section and little muscle mass..

i am going to look into doing the 180. I am trying to give my wife less attention.. Honestly, its the craziest thing, sometimes she acts really nice, playful, jokes around etc. But If I begin to get close, she pulls away VERY fast, and the situation gets really bad. Not to mention she snaps and gets angry VERY quickly... Didn't use to before, but after the baby its gone real bad. 



Openminded said:


> That explains why she doesn't respect you.
> 
> I've read that Japanese men often literally work themselves to death for their families. That work ethic is what she knows and what she respects and what she wants from you.
> 
> The question is whether you could or would do that for her or whether she is capable of adjusting what she expects from you.


You basically nailed it, For a short time (1 month) I worked in a different field, office environment.. They worked me from 8 AM to 6 PM.. I was getting paid HALF of what I am currently getting paid, but she thought the job overall was very good. Since I am an English teacher, we have yearly contracts, now if you are a good teacher etc, there is no reason not to have your contract renewed at the end of the year, but this issue bothers her, as she has mentioned it in the passed... (however this would not change even if I was to get a university gig as they are also on a yearly contract as well.)

honestly I feel I have been very accommodating towards her needs, in-fact almost to much. At this point I am trying the above suggestion about pulling a 180 and trying to "man-up" to see how that fairs..



john117 said:


> Back in 2005 we were doing a project for a very famous Japanese company. The funniest three years ever. They sent us one of their engineers whose job was literally to babysit us into working 12-14 hour days. This worked well as my company has a policy of paid overtime so we racked up some serious $.
> 
> Still, to have an early 30's attractive young woman sit with us in that way was quite funny.


That is funny. There is a lot of waste here in japan. For example, lets say there is road work being done, there will be AT least 10 people around the site. 2-3 are actually working, while the others are standing around guiding traffic.. This might seem alright, until you realize its a two lane road...


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

That engineer is now a legend in the UX Lab. She was THAT funny. She used to talk to is about her personal life. She told me once she chose this long hours long travel routine to get even with he husband for him taking a six month temp assignment in Europe leaving her and the young kids in the USA. So when he came back she did the same, the guy brought his mother here to keep the kids, the lady detached even more... 

Reality show funny, but makes me wonder what was going thru her head.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Asian family norms can be very different. I am half Chinese but grew up in the US. It was shock when I heard my grandmother talk about my father and uncles. Quotes:

"Your dad was the stupidest of the four."
"Your youngest uncle liked reading novels just like you and it ruined him."

Etc.

Western parents don't broadcast their favoritism even if it exists.

As far as family life goes parents have greater role, but that has no doubt diminished in post war Japan.

Your back pain may be the result of sitting too much. Train hard. No pain, no gain. Japanese culture esteems people who can take suffering.

There is sometimes additional work. If you are entrepreneurial you can find some product or industry that interests you and write reports on what is happening in Japan for some US publication. If there is something you feel passionate about you'll enjoy it and meet Japanese people who share a similar interest.

Maybe your could find a Japanese publication on the Internet that would interest people in the rest of the world. You could translate and get paid from the sales of advertising.

Learning more about English is also a good move.


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