# Rebuffed



## Married-Man (Dec 6, 2011)

Had a good session with wife one recent night. I've noticed I want it more in the morning lately. She is not really a morning type.... but once in a while. 

Anyway I left for a work trip the next day - had to be out the door by 2:00. All morning I'm waiting in bed taking my time - take a shower - back to bed ... no kids home. I know she doesn't want the whole deal having gotten off the night before....but I was really wanting a BJ. Especially since I was about to leave for 5 days. 

I asked her if she wanted a back rub she said no and busied herself folding laundry doing email and facebook and reading. Later, I asked her to bring me a drink in the bedroom. She handed it to me and ran out of the room to get back to fb. It was pretty obvious what I was looking for -- she knew...

I didn't press the issue at the time but couple days later while on my trip I texted and asked about it. Eventually we got to she doesn't want to be a sex slave and I was offended she ignored me knowing what I wanted before leaving for 5 days...

She thinks I'm selfish for making an issue of it. I am frustrated that she ignored and avoided me all morning/afternoon knowing what I wanted before leaving on a trip and leaving me dry. 

Just looking for an unbiased perspective. Am I wrong to call her on this? Is it reasonable to expect wife to help me out like this? Thanks.


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

If sex feels like slavery then something has gone wrong. Slavery sounds like a one sided deal to me. Try talking to her about why she feels like this and maybe, the next time you have sex, be sure to give her the lions share of affection - show her that her pleasure is equally desirable to you rather than just a need for a BJ or whatever. Something I have learned is that when I show complete selflessness to my H, he usually reciprocates with selflessness. But it was me that had to make the first move and show by example.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Use your hand.


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## Married-Man (Dec 6, 2011)

peacem said:


> If sex feels like slavery then something has gone wrong. Slavery sounds like a one sided deal to me. Try talking to her about why she feels like this and maybe, the next time you have sex, be sure to give her the lions share of affection - show her that her pleasure is equally desirable to you rather than just a need for a BJ or whatever. Something I have learned is that when I show complete selflessness to my H, he usually reciprocates with selflessness. But it was me that had to make the first move and show by example.



Thanks. I think that's the other missing piece. Selflessness. I can't recall ever denying her (unless I'm upset). I have told her many times I will do anything she pleases....(but she just only ever wants a massage and climbs on top.) Doesn't want to be licked or fingered - though I would eagerly and gladly do that. In fact I'd like to engage in that with her for my own excitement but she won't let me - her take is: we tried it - didn't do anything for me. Whatever - I give her massages. 

but it's not a two-way street. She is unwilling to selflessly please me. E.g. I would really love to be deep throated and swallowed and have eye contact during. It's really important to me. Have made mention of this many many times. She won't try...says thats only for porn and I'm living in a fantasy world if I think non-porn actresses willingly happily do that. 

The willingness to selflessly please her is there from me -- but not from her to reciprocate. 

And I think she thinks I want things that she's uncomfortable doing. That's not it. Just makes think I picked the wrong woman. Thanks.


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## Married-Man (Dec 6, 2011)

blueinbr said:


> Use your hand.




Well...the point was to physically connect with wife.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Married-Man said:


> Had a good session with wife one recent night. I've noticed I want it more in the morning lately. She is not really a morning type.... but once in a while.
> 
> Anyway I left for a work trip the next day - had to be out the door by 2:00. All morning I'm waiting in bed taking my time - take a shower - back to bed ... no kids home. I know she doesn't want the whole deal having gotten off the night before....but I was really wanting a BJ. Especially since I was about to leave for 5 days.
> 
> ...


Jesus, laying around in bed for hours asking her to bring you things and hinting around about back rubs and all that passive/aggressive nonsense. You'd just *had* satisfying sex the night *before* for God's sakes. You act as though you were being sent out to battle for the next 6 months in some remote part of the world, instead of going on a business trip for 5 lousy days.

What an utterly selfish and greedy outlook whining about 'being left dry' and acting as though she needed to 'help you out' like you're _so_ deprived.

LOL...what a crock of bullsh*t your answer was when someone said to use your hand and you actually tried to say, "it's about connecting with my wife." Yeah, a blow job so you're 'not left dry' is connecting on *SOOO* many levels.

No wonder she was avoiding you like the plague that morning. There's nothing even remotely cute or attractive or sexy about you lying in bed hoping to be serviced. 

Absolutely NOTHING.


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

> Eventually we got to she doesn't want to be a sex slave





> but I was really wanting a BJ





> Later, I asked her to bring me a drink in the bedroom. She handed it to me and ran out of the room





> She won't try...says thats only for porn and I'm living in a fantasy world if I think non-porn actresses willingly happily do that.


I am not criticising you but just reflecting back what you have written. 

I wonder how many times you have stopped doing your own important chores, to help her with hers, then led her to the bedroom to spend quality time caressing her in whatever way she asks, without preconceived ideas as to what is 'normal'...without an erection or personal orgasm. Just about her. This is what you are asking her to do. Stop folding the laundry, bring me a drink, give me a BJ, act like a porn star because I am going to leave you for several days on your own. 

Appreciate that she is communicating with you and try and work with it.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Married-Man said:


> Well...the point was to physically connect with wife.




She told you already what you want is porn and not for her. It is very selfish of you to continue to expect what makes her uncomfortable. And to act the way you did. 

You can connect physically without a bj. If you don't know how, that may be your problem. 

How old are you?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Have you considered that deep throating and swallowing might be really unpleasant for her?

Don't compare that to licking.

I have a small mouth and that makes me gag.

Methinks you're watching a bit too much porn.....what you've described is right out of a porn scene.

The porn women don't like it either, but they have to pretend.

And yeah, being deep throated is hardly connecting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Married-Man (Dec 6, 2011)

blueinbr said:


> She told you already what you want is porn and not for her. It is very selfish of you to continue to expect what makes her uncomfortable. And to act the way you did.
> 
> You can connect physically without a bj. If you don't know how, that may be your problem.
> 
> How old are you?




I'm 46. Flame away.


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## Married-Man (Dec 6, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> Have you considered that deep throating and swallowing might be really unpleasant for her?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I guess my point is that I would please her without limits. But it's not a two way street. 

No deepthroat ok... but she's not even willing to try the rest...

You don't think there's any emotional or psychological rush from being blown by your lover... its a very intimate connection for me. And something I'd love to do for her - but she doesn't want it.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Married-Man said:


> She thinks I'm selfish for making an issue of it. I am frustrated that she ignored and avoided me all morning/afternoon knowing what I wanted before leaving on a trip and leaving me dry.
> 
> Just looking for an unbiased perspective. Am I wrong to call her on this? Is it reasonable to expect wife to help me out like this? Thanks.


Her mistake was not telling you that she wasn't going to blow you. I'm sure she didn't say anything because it would have led to an argument with you. 

Your mistake is thinking bjs, or any sex act for that matter, with an unwilling partner is 'connecting'. Nope, it's selfish and only proves to her that she's nothing more than several orifices for your use. 

So in response to your question, yes you're wrong to call her out and no it's not reasonable to expect your wife to service you like a what?...sex slave. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## Married-Man (Dec 6, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> Have you considered that deep throating and swallowing might be really unpleasant for her?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Not into porn really. But from reading the posts here - swallowing seems fairly tame.


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## Married-Man (Dec 6, 2011)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Jesus, laying around in bed for hours asking her to bring you things and hinting around about back rubs and all that passive/aggressive nonsense. You'd just *had* satisfying sex the night *before* for God's sakes. You act as though you were being sent out to battle for the next 6 months in some remote part of the world, instead of going on a business trip for 5 lousy days.
> 
> What an utterly selfish and greedy outlook whining about 'being left dry' and acting as though she needed to 'help you out' like you're _so_ deprived.
> 
> ...




If you don't think oral is connecting - You might be doing it wrong. Thanks for the feedback though... I do appreciate it the perspective actually. 

So it sounds lame to lay around and hope to get Serviced. I guess it must. It was a rare occasion that we're both home with no kids and some time to kill... feeling like some action before I leave and miss my wife. That's about it... if that's wrong and makes me a childish selfish ****, I dunno


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Married-Man said:


> I guess my point is that I would please her without limits. But it's not a two way street.
> 
> No deepthroat ok... but she's not even willing to try the rest...
> 
> You don't think there's any emotional or psychological rush from being blown by your lover... its a very intimate connection for me. And something I'd love to do for her - but she doesn't want it.


I give them to my hb sometimes, minus the deep throat because I know he likes them. 

But he'd never push for something I didn't want or call me out on it. In fact, I'm not sure he'd stay up if he knew I really didn't want to be there.

As Lila said, there's nothing intimate about pressuring an unwilling partner.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Married-Man (Dec 6, 2011)

Lila said:


> Her mistake was not telling you that she wasn't going to blow you. I'm sure she didn't say anything because it would have led to an argument with you.
> 
> Your mistake is thinking bjs, or any sex act for that matter, with an unwilling partner is 'connecting'. Nope, it's selfish and only proves to her that she's nothing more than several orifices for your use.
> 
> ...




Thanks. To clarify -- I am definitely not into any sex act with an unwilling partner. I suppose that is the lament... that she wasn't willing or into tbs idea at the moment. If she begrudgingly gave into coercion .... or acquiesced without being into it.... I do not want that at all.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Married-Man said:


> If you don't think oral is connecting - You might be doing it wrong. Thanks for the feedback though... I do appreciate it the perspective actually.
> 
> So it sounds lame to lay around and hope to get Serviced. I guess it must. It was a rare occasion that we're both home with no kids and some time to kill... feeling like some action before I leave and miss my wife. That's about it... if that's wrong and makes me a childish selfish ****, I dunno


Well based on your wife's reaction she didn't see it as connecting. Why do you suppose that is?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Married-Man said:


> Thanks. To clarify -- I am definitely not into any sex act with an unwilling partner. I suppose that is the lament... that she wasn't willing or into tbs idea at the moment. If she begrudgingly gave into coercion .... or acquiesced without being into it.... I do not want that at all.


Maybe your answer is to stop asking. She knows you want it and calling her out on it and laying in bed hinting might be creating a power play. 

Maybe if you stop asking she'll offer. And if not you'll have lost nothing, if it's true that you want a willing partner.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Juice (Dec 5, 2013)

Op...... Just get to the point and tell her you want some before you leave. No sense laying around wishing to get some. 

Also don't let these infamous TAM posters aggravate you..... it's okay to have fantasies and it takes time and patience. I don't understand the people on here sometimes. We come here for advice not to be beat up. If I was leaving for 5 days to provide for my family I would definitely would like some action (my wife too) before I left. 

Try avoid using terms like deep throat to your wife and keep it somewhat clean. Explain to her how important oral sex is to you and that you would like to incorporate that into your sex life. 

If all else fails go to a sex therapist and see if that helps. She might have had some bad experiences that she can't shake off or has prude side to her or you could be the factor. It's nice to have a mediator sometimes. 

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## Married-Man (Dec 6, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> Maybe your answer is to stop asking. She knows you want it and calling her out on it and laying in bed hinting might be creating a power play.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks - yes it is true I want an enthusiastic willing partner. I didn't ask actually but was wondering if I should have been direct about it - my behavior was called passive aggressive -- not good. 

Thanks for the input.


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## Married-Man (Dec 6, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> Well based on your wife's reaction she didn't see it as connecting. Why do you suppose that is?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




She just didn't feel like it... her words.


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## Married-Man (Dec 6, 2011)

Juice said:


> Op...... Just get to the point and tell her you want some before you leave. No sense laying around wishing to get some.
> 
> Also don't let these infamous TAM posters aggravate you..... it's okay to have fantasies and it takes time and patience. I don't understand the people on here sometimes. We come here for advice not to be beat up. If I was leaving for 5 days to provide for my family I would definitely would like some action (my wife too) before I left.
> 
> ...




Thanks you. I'm considering the therapist route. Maybe I'm the one with unrealistic desires. I'm the only partner she's ever had. Married 16 years. She is Quite shy and a bit prudish... Has never been drunk or tried weed. might like to explore that with a pro for some insight.


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## Juice (Dec 5, 2013)

Married-Man said:


> Thanks you. I'm considering the therapist route. Maybe I'm the one with unrealistic desires. I'm the only partner she's ever had. Married 16 years. She is Quite shy and a bit prudish... Has never been drunk or tried weed. might like to explore that with a pro for some insight.


Well its a start. I went with my wife and it helped. Everyone has ups and downs in relationships. I'm sure she is a little prude then. She most likely feels very pressured. A good therapists will help you guys out. Good luck and I've been there. Stay positive and dont give up. 



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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Married-Man said:


> I didn't press the issue at the time but couple days later while on my trip I texted and asked about it. *Eventually we got to she doesn't want to be a sex slave *and I was offended she ignored me knowing what I wanted before leaving for 5 days...
> 
> She thinks I'm selfish for making an issue of it. I am frustrated that she ignored and avoided me all morning/afternoon knowing what I wanted before leaving on a trip and leaving me dry.
> 
> Just looking for an unbiased perspective. Am I wrong to call her on this? Is it reasonable to expect wife to help me out like this? Thanks.


 @Married-Man I do not know how long you have been married, but there is a common theme that plays out among wives when they feel that there husband has in insatiable sex drive.


Aggressive marketing that uses sex appeal tends to make the average women feel inadequate. As our bodies age, and celebrities often divorce in favor of a younger wife (e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Cruise ), the media preaches to women that they are of no value as they age. Meanwhile the opposite can be true in that a lifetime together will make a spouse extremely attractive, but this will be tough to convey to her as she will only see you as a husband that has an insatiable drive that will probably soon be looking towards younger women.
Low self esteem will rob a woman of any and all closeness and validation during acts of sex, which will leave her feeling used and inadequate.
If your wife does not get any compliments from you, but instead you only tend to complain about not getting enough sex, this feeds into a horrible death spiral of making her feel inadequate and used sexually in the marriage. 
Sex in these situations becomes a source of anxiety for these woman as they can not see themselves as desirable and as beautiful as us husbands do from our eyes.

So, if you think you can call her out on this one, go right ahead. But creating conflicts and arguments over sexuality in your marriage will rarely serve you well. If you need to argue, aggressively defend the fact that you find your wife beautiful and desirable even in moments she refuses to believe you. Exercise patience with her when she needs to give you a shît test to prove that you love her and are just not trying to game her for more sex. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

Married-Man said:


> So it sounds lame to lay around and hope to get Serviced. I guess it must. It was a rare occasion that we're both home with no kids and some time to kill... feeling like some action before I leave and miss my wife. That's about it... if that's wrong and makes me a childish selfish ****, I dunno


Did you do anything to seduce and/or please her during this time? The way you make it sound is that you literally just lay around asking her to bring you stuff hoping she'd take the hint. Maybe if there was something in it for her, she might have been more in the mood. 

Have to agree with the other posters that being treated this way would be a total turn off for me too.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Married-Man said:


> Well...the point was to physically connect with wife.


You can NOT connect with your wife if something is giving her anxiety with regards to how you wish to connect with her!

YES, it might feel good. But then you will look down and see her struggling to please you and that will take away all your pleasure. Then she will feel even more anxiety because she pushed herself to please you and you would still be unhappy.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Lila said:


> Her mistake was not telling you that she wasn't going to blow you. I'm sure she didn't say anything because it would have led to an argument with you.


If this were my wife, she would look at me with a HUGE smile and say, "well you would want that wouldn't you!" Then she would have no mercy on me, but playfully give me a BJ for only ten seconds, which would be enough for me to get super excited and then she would say, "that is all you are going to get, you will just have keep thinking about the rest while you really enjoy missing me for the next few days!"

She has slowly learned how to playfully enjoy leaving me wanting a little more at times when I get too needy. Then when she is finally ready to "connect" with me, holy cow!!!!

Badsanta


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I don't think it is wise to encourage infidelity.

OP, please do not go outside your marriage for sex. It is likely to bring many problems.

Seeing a therapist for help resolving your issues is a very good idea.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Capster (Jun 10, 2014)

Don't talk about sex via text. Such a beta move.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Your problem is being indirect. Tell her you want a bj. Tell here what you want. Of course it's connecting. Tell her it erodes your bond with her when she refuses and acts selfishly.

Your W has preconceived notions of what sex should be like as do you. Those notions are not aligned. This will always be a problem until you address it.

Please see a sex therapist in your own. I did and I'm glad. She gave me the thoughts and words I lacked to understand and communicate how I felt. It's clear you do too otherwise women on TAM wouldn't be trying to shame you for trying to bond with your W.

After I went I told my W and she was upset - she's not the type to air her dirty laundry. But it certainly showed her this was a real issue for me. We went together and then I told her to go alone in case she had some things to talk about with regard to me.

Alignment of sexual perspectives is a very common problem in marriage. Neither of you will get what you want, that seems clear to me, but you can both acomidate each other better and learn to understand each other better.

The sex therapist recommended videos by the Sinclair institute. They have real people having real sex and openly talking about it - as a couple, moderated, and in a group. This really resonates with women - they can see real women performing sex acts in a comfortable and loving and fun way - that maybe they thought only existed in porn. Btw I'm talking about normal things like different positions, bj, oral on her, anal (separate video for that).

It will give you the words and examples to open the dialog.

Btw - no more doing chores or back rubs for sex - sex for sex's sake and sex for pleasure and sex for bonding. Pretending that a back rub is a romantic lead in - without talking specifically about using that for foreplay just gives you a way to "sneak in" sex and her to "pretend not to realize" you wanted sex in the first place.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Btw my DD15 went home from HS sick yesterday and my W told me on the phone she was starting to feel sick a bit and we both laughed about her empathetic illness. I told her that's very good - maybe she can send some my way have be an empathetic horn dog. We laughed - I am definitely more revved up sexually than her and we both are completely fine with that fact because we're constantly working to try to meet the others needs - she does lots of stand alone hj, bj and I try not to hound her all the time for more than that. Believe me we're both getting enough that it's very good. So a mismatch can be managed


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

This is probably going to come out harsher than it is intended. You married a young prudish virgin. Now you are wondering why she is not more sexually aggressive. Can you see how it was not unlikely that if you did the first, you would some day end up doing the second?

Does not mean your situation is impossible to resolve. Does mean you should be very patient and expect your wife to resist talking openly about sex.

As usual, I think BadSanta has good advice. The more you make it fun and a challenge and let her play with you, the more success you will have. Do not bludgeon her into grudging consent. Inspire her to revel in the power she has over you. Maybe she doesn't feel powerful. As BadSanta says, no one likes to feel inadequate. Help her feel strong and healthy. Sex should not be drudgery. Try to make it a game. Playful. Silly and even foolish maybe. As long as you are the one playing the fool and all the jokes are on you. Maybe she doesn't want that power. Maybe the power frightens her and she wants to pretend it doesn't exist. make her feel safe in having power over you. Which means you have to admit and accept that she does. That she is powerful and you are weak. And that you need her to share some of her power with you. Might be a very different dynamic than has existed within your marriage.

You should be the one making sacrifices. Not sacrificing by refraining from sex. But sacrificing by making sex be about what makes it fun and enjoyable for her rather than trying to stick to a script inside your own head. She has made it clear she does not enjoy playing the role you scripted for her. Help her find a role that suits her. You might find you get alot more pleasure from her playing her chosen role than from fighting to get her to play the role you picked for her.


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## Married27years (Jun 16, 2016)

You know she isn't a morning sex type of person, you had sex the night before so why didn't you ask her for a BJ the night before? Laying in bed and asking her to bring you water when she is busy doing other things isn't a way to get her in the mood to give you a BJ. She didn't want to so you should have accepted that.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I can imagine, and would enjoy the sort of relationship where each is eager to sexually please the other whenever they wish. This could be a passionate and fair relationship. 

Some people have that, but many don't. Some people are happy to do sexual favors, but many are not. This may be deeply built into someone's personality. 

My wife could at any time tell me she wanted oral, and I'd be happy to provide, and would get aroused doing so. OTOH, she would find providing any sort of sex without romance and warm-up to be very unpleasant and degrading. We are just wired differently. 

Only you can decide what you are or are not wiling to live with. Don't get angry at her for being who she is - unless she suddenly changed after marriage or something. Also keep some perspective, some of us haven't gotten a BJ in years.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

badsanta said:


> If this were my wife, she would look at me with a HUGE smile and say, "well you would want that wouldn't you!" Then she would have no mercy on me, but playfully give me a BJ for only ten seconds, which would be enough for me to get super excited and then she would say, "that is all you are going to get, you will just have keep thinking about the rest while you really enjoy missing me for the next few days!"
> 
> She has slowly learned how to playfully enjoy leaving me wanting a little more at times when I get too needy. Then when she is finally ready to "connect" with me, holy cow!!!!
> 
> Badsanta


That's awesome B.S. If OP were my husband, I would have asked for something I KNOW he doesn't like doing but I like in exchange. ABC - always.be.crazier.:laugh:


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

You are treating your wife having sex with you like her doing her homework. Who likes doing homework. Most woman don't work like us. With most woman it is Emotional (leads to) Physical. Form us it is Physical (leads to) Emotional. You need to take her nature into account. If you wanted to have sex with her you need to start in the morning to try to emotionally connect with her, you could have talked about how much you are going to miss her. How you wanted to be close with her, you know court her. How you want to have sex with your girl one more time before you won't be able to see her for a week. How that will be a nice memory of something look forward to when you get back. Instead you kind of passive aggressively laid on the bed and expected a blowjob. Most likely that ain't going to work. 

You could have romanced her, wrote her a little note for her to find. All sorts of stuff, the point is you needed to work a little harder. You want to have sex, she needs the emotion of being special to want to have sex. So make her feel special. 

Let me ask you a question, why did you want to have sex. I am assuming is was more then just wanting to get off right. That is the part that you got to get through to her because right now she feels like it's basically so you can just get off. 

If you just want to get off, use porn. Save the sex that is about connecting to being with your wife. At least then she won't feel used and will be more op to want to do it.


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## Married-Man (Dec 6, 2011)

sokillme said:


> You are treating your wife having sex with you like her doing her homework. Who likes doing homework. Most woman don't work like us. With most woman it is Emotional (leads to) Physical. Form us it is Physical (leads to) Emotional. You need to take her nature into account. If you wanted to have sex with her you need to start in the morning to try to emotionally connect with her, you could have talked about how much you are going to miss her. How you wanted to be close with her, you know court her. How you want to have sex with your girl one more time before you won't be able to see her for a week. How that will be a nice memory of something look forward to when you get back. Instead you kind of passive aggressively laid on the bed and expected a blowjob. Most likely that ain't going to work.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Why do I want to have sex with her? She's hot and I'm horny and it feels good. Yeah I want to get off -- but with her. But It isn't really about romance. But it is a very giving act of love at the same time. The idea was for a quickie. Yea it's selfish I know. She's done this for me previously -so not uncharted.

I very rarely masturbate. I want to orgasm with her.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Married-Man said:


> Why do I want to have sex with her? She's hot and I'm horny and it feels good. Yeah I want to get off -- but with her. But It isn't really about romance. But it is a very giving act of love at the same time. The idea was for a quickie. Yea it's selfish I know. She's done this for me previously -so not uncharted.


So she didn't want to do this with you this night then game over. Why did you press it. She is not obligated to give you a quickie all the time right? If you want a better change do what I say and work for it. You can always try for a quickie but doesn't mean it's going to happen. Right now you sound entitled.


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## Married-Man (Dec 6, 2011)

uhtred said:


> I can imagine, and would enjoy the sort of relationship where each is eager to sexually please the other whenever they wish. This could be a passionate and fair relationship.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Eager to please each-other sexually. That's how it should be. 


Because of the responses - I have referrals to marriage/sex therapists now and even found out everyone in my household gets 3 free sessions a year. 

I intend to take advantage. Thanks.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

If there is such a thing.....



Lila said:


> That's awesome B.S. If OP were my husband, I would have asked for something I KNOW he doesn't like doing but I like in exchange. ABC - always.be.crazier.:laugh:


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## Married-Man (Dec 6, 2011)

sokillme said:


> So she didn't want to do this with you this night then game over. Why did you press it. She is not obligated to give you a quickie all the time right? If you want a better change do what I say and work for it. You can always try for a quickie but doesn't mean it's going to happen. Right now you sound entitled.




No not obligated. But I was leaving in an hour and wanted to go out with a bang. I know I overreacted. Wish it didn't bother me that she wasn't down. But it did.


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

Married-Man said:


> No not obligated. But I was leaving in an hour and wanted to go out with a bang. I know I overreacted. Wish it didn't bother me that she wasn't down. But it did.


You want to go out with a bang throw on a porn movie and do it yourself. She doesn't owe you anything. Especially the morning after a night of intimacy. 

You come across as very selfish and entitled, laying there in bed demanding she bring you drinks and blow you and getting all whiny and bent out of shape because you didn't get your d!ck sucked. 

You're lucky you get any sex at all.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Married-Man said:


> No not obligated. But I was leaving in an hour and wanted to go out with a bang. I know I overreacted. Wish it didn't bother me that she wasn't down. But it did.


Dude you didn't even ask her. Why does it bother you SO much, it just means she is not in the mood. It doesn't sound like she is abstaining. She just had sex with you the night before right?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

browser said:


> You want to go out with a bang throw on a porn movie and do it yourself. She doesn't owe you anything. Especially the morning after a night of intimacy.
> 
> You come across as very selfish and entitled, laying there in bed demanding she bring you drinks and blow you and getting all whiny and bent out of shape because you didn't get your d!ck sucked.
> 
> You're lucky you get any sex at all.


I kind of agree with this. If you wanted one more day of intimacy then you should have asked for it, then worked for it. If you wanted to get off go watch some porn.


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## Married-Man (Dec 6, 2011)

sokillme said:


> Dude you didn't even ask her. Why does it bother you SO much, it just means she is not in the mood. It doesn't sound like she is abstaining. She just had sex with you the night before right?




I don't know. Not proud. I should talk it through with a pro.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Married-Man said:


> Eager to please each-other sexually. That's how it should be.


And how would YOU have been pleasing her by her giving you a blowjob? You didn't sound so eager to please her at that moment, I get it it would have been fun if she had done that for you, but she didn't want to at that moment. 

If you get a sex therapist because you wife wouldn't just give you a blowjob at your whim it is going to blow up in your face. Basically your are telling your wife, you didn't want to give me a blowjob when I wanted it so there is something wrong with you sexually. Not going to go over well. Better think twice about this.


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

Married-Man said:


> Eager to please each-other sexually. That's how it should be.


Says who? I dn't recall reading that each partner should always be at the ready to please the other sexually upon request in the "Book of Rules for Life".



Married-Man said:


> Because of the responses - I have referrals to marriage/sex therapists now and even found out everyone in my household gets 3 free sessions a year.
> 
> I intend to take advantage. Thanks.


You need independent counseling not a sex therapist, and it's going to take a helluva lot more than 3 sessions.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Married-Man said:


> I don't know. Not proud. I should talk it through with a pro.


I will save you the time and the money. Your wife will not always want to blow you when you want her to. If that is the case, there is this little box called a computer and there is free porn on there (not hard to find). Go on there and get yourself off. Later on romance your wife, make it fun and maybe she will want to blow you. 

This is how two people coexist with different libidos that don't always match up.

Also don't beg or plead for her, win her.


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## Married-Man (Dec 6, 2011)

browser said:


> You want to go out with a bang throw on a porn movie and do it yourself. She doesn't owe you anything. Especially the morning after a night of intimacy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




the drink request was to get her in the room to see -- but she bolted. I don't demand and expect food and drink brought to me in bed regularly. 

"Throw in a porn movie and do it yourself. "

My vcr is in the shop -- but I wouldn't do that anyway.


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

Married-Man said:


> the drink request was to get her in the room to see -- but she bolted. I don't demand and expect food and drink brought to me in bed regularly.


You should never demand it. Especially as some sort of ruse to get her in the bedroom so you can wave your ԁick in her face. You might sort of expect special treatment on your birthday or if you're really sick but not just because you're going out of town for a few days. 



Married-Man said:


> "Throw in a porn movie and do it yourself. "
> 
> but I wouldn't do that anyway.


No of course you wouldn't. It's not "fair" to have to do it yourself when you've got an able bodied woman with hands and a mouth who can do the job for you.

If I want a BJ, you know what I do? I lay down in bed next to her and start caressing her and getting her in the mood. I do whatever is necessary to please her including having sex with her. But I don't orgasm. I lay back and she knows that means I'd like her to finish me off. 

I would never, ever expect or even ask for a BJ out of the blue just like that. It's just.. rude or something. I can't really put a word to it but again I'd just never go there. And I get plenty of no obligation BJs, because she WANTS to give them to me. Not because I'm expecting one.


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## Married-Man (Dec 6, 2011)

sokillme said:


> And how would YOU have been pleasing her by her giving you a blowjob? You didn't sound so eager to please her at that moment, I get it it would have been fun if she had done that for you, but she didn't want to at that moment.
> 
> 
> 
> If you get a sex therapist because you wife wouldn't just give you a blowjob at your whim it is going to blow up in your face. Basically your are telling your wife, you didn't want to give me a blowjob when I wanted it so there is something wrong with you sexually. Not going to go over well. Better think twice about this.




Yeah well it's as much for me too. 

Communication and expectation management are what I'm looking for help with.


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

Married-Man said:


> Yeah well it's as much for me too.
> 
> Communication and expectation management are what I'm looking for help with.


We're here to help you lower your expectations.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> Use your hand.


Arrgh!

I hear Ricky Nelson's song in the background....the one about a Garden Party.

Ending theme?

"You gotta please yourself".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PECmjB9df0w


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

uhtred said:


> If there is such a thing.....


Oh darlin' trust me......there IS ! :<O
-------
OP, a marriage counselor specializing in sex therapy is a great idea.

My husband and I are seeing one now. He's helping us learn/establish each others boundaries and how to manage expectations (for me it's using sex for validation; for my husband it's keeping focused on the moment). So far, money well spent. 

Good luck.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

browser said:


> We're here to help you lower your expectations.


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## Married-Man (Dec 6, 2011)

Lila said:


> Oh darlin' trust me......there IS ! :<O
> -------
> OP, a marriage counselor specializing in sex therapy is a great idea.
> 
> ...




That's good to know; thanks Lila. 

I've never sought therapy for any bedroom stuff. In fact - I've tried with other issues before (anxiety/depression) but I have ended up feeling stupid/uncomfortable and sitting in front of a stranger getting upset about embarrassing stuff. So I stopped and have t tried again. 

I guess part of is understanding what I want help with and why. 

My wife has never gotten any either. She is happy and confident and high esteem and all and doesn't see a problem. But is open to attending. 

I guess I'd like to talk about: 
Why won't she let me do manual/oral on her? She's never tried weed or been drunk won't swear ... she will say it just doesn't appeal to have her consciousnesses altered. Why do I care ? Why are her boundaries/limits how they are (no anal no swallow no oral or manual on her) these are things I want but she doesn't give). How can I better manage my own expectations? Not looking for answered to those things here - it's just what I would like to explore with a pro.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Married-Man said:


> Had a good session with wife one recent night. I've noticed I want it more in the morning lately. She is not really a morning type.... but once in a while.
> 
> Anyway I left for a work trip the next day - had to be out the door by 2:00. All morning I'm waiting in bed taking my time - take a shower - back to bed ... no kids home. I know she doesn't want the whole deal having gotten off the night before....but I was really wanting a BJ. Especially since I was about to leave for 5 days.
> 
> ...


Without reading any of the (4 pages!) of replies - yes, she's in the right about this.

Had she been in the mood, things would have been different. But she wasn't, and your obviousness about it all likely put her less in the mood.

On top of that, you knew she wouldn't be in the mood to begin with, so the whole shtick about being passively obvious about what you wanted went over like a lead balloon.

Been there, done that. If you choose this approach during times you know she'd jump into bed with you - cool. But when it's times like this, when you know she's not going to be into it, you're leaving for 5 days, and it's obvious you want her to service you - nuh uh. You can't lead a horse to water, and all that.

So yes, wrong of you to bring it up. Makes it worse IMO, and just confirms to her that you wanted to use her. She's no dummy, she figured it out immediately.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> No wonder she was avoiding you like the plague that morning. There's nothing even remotely cute or attractive or sexy about you lying in bed hoping to be serviced.
> 
> Absolutely NOTHING.


Fully agree with this.

The thing is - it's not attractive to HER. If the roles were reversed, I'd bet OP would find it attractive - which is where he's going wrong with this.

My wife would react the same way as his, if I pulled this. If it was HER lying in bed, 'hinting', I'd be all over here in 2 seconds. Because that kind of shtick works for me.

Some other things OP said in his posts absolutely scream that he expects his wife to think like him. HE wants to selflessly pleasure her. She's not into that. My wife is the same - she wants things to be mutual. I would love nothing more than to spend 100% of my time on her occasionally - that's MY personality. Not hers.

There's a lack of respect for his wife, in this. Just because he would do things for her pleasure only, does not mean she has to feel the same way.

One thing I've learned is that women don't think men are some kind of great catch if they like to give oral sex, or are willing to do it without reciprocation. We men (generally) want a woman who is willing to do that to us, no doubt. I would. But most women don't think the same way. Willingness to please your wife sexually, without reciprocation, doesn't make you unique or special. Nor does the fact that you like giving oral sex in general. This myth has been perpetuated ad nauseum for eons.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

alexm said:


> One thing I've learned is that women don't think men are some kind of great catch if they like to give oral sex, or are willing to do it without reciprocation. We men (generally) want a woman who is willing to do that to us, no doubt. I would. But most women don't think the same way. Willingness to please your wife sexually, without reciprocation, doesn't make you unique or special. Nor does the fact that you like giving oral sex in general. This myth has been perpetuated ad nauseum for eons.


I don't know about that one, man. A guy who is willing to give standalone pleasure to a woman is actually pretty hard to come by, at least IME. All the dudes I've been with are always sure to get theirs. In all my years, I've received maybe one or two orgasms without him also getting his. But guys often expect or demand this sort of non-reciprocal servicing, as though just pleasing him without concern for her own pleasure is every woman's duty. That's how it happens in porn after all. LOL. 

Personally, I've learned to be cautious about doling out too much servicing because the reality is that a lot of dudes think women don't have or don't want or don't care about orgasms and sexual pleasure. I have to stand up for myself, to make a point of it to get mine. This is why there's all this "she comes first" sex advice. If she doesn't come first, then there's a good chance she doesn't come at all. And ends up only doing the servicing with none of the return benefits.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Things get a bit more complicated

Not getting drunk, or trying weed: That isn't at all unusual, and IMHO is a good thing.

Not wanting oral or manual on her: That could be lots of things from her being self-conscious, to your not knowing what it is she enjoys (which may not be your fault if she hasn't told you). So in generally he is happy giving BJs but doesn't like to receive? 

For a lot of women anal is really painful (and not in a fun sort of way). A lot of people also see it as gross. Can't really blame her for not wanting it. Does she not want to try or has tried and doesn't like it?

Swallow: some women, do, some don't. 



Married-Man said:


> snip
> I guess I'd like to talk about:
> Why won't she let me do manual/oral on her? She's never tried weed or been drunk won't swear ... she will say it just doesn't appeal to have her consciousnesses altered. Why do I care ? Why are her boundaries/limits how they are (no anal no swallow no oral or manual on her) these are things I want but she doesn't give). How can I better manage my own expectations? Not looking for answered to those things here - it's just what I would like to explore with a pro.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Married-Man said:


> the drink request was to get her in the room to see -- but she bolted. I don't demand and expect food and drink brought to me in bed regularly.
> 
> "Throw in a porn movie and do it yourself. "
> 
> My vcr is in the shop -- but I wouldn't do that anyway.



Maybe you should. One word, Internet. Bottom line you guys need to talk about this stuff. She bolted, but she should have just said, hey I am not in the mood right now OK, and you should have been cool with that. Again we are not talking about a sexless marriage here.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

wild jade said:


> alexm said:
> 
> 
> > One thing I've learned is that women don't think men are some kind of great catch if they like to give oral sex, or are willing to do it without reciprocation. We men (generally) want a woman who is willing to do that to us, no doubt. I would. But most women don't think the same way. Willingness to please your wife sexually, without reciprocation, doesn't make you unique or special. Nor does the fact that you like giving oral sex in general. This myth has been perpetuated ad nauseum for eons.
> ...


It is interesting to read both your and Alex's reply.

My experience matches what Alex said. Every man I've been with would have been willing to eagerly give me a one way, any time, any place, just say go. And many men who were just trying to date me have used this offer as enticement.

And all of them, every single one of them, thought they were the only man on earth who was willing to do this. They thought it gave them super powers that I would never be able to resist.

I've never been with a man who was happy to just get his and wasn't worried about mine. But I have had friends report what you have said, Jade. So I know it is true that they exist.

I've actually heard of women who were very selfish sexually too and would leave their men hanging and not worry about it at all.

I can't relate to sexually selfish people so it's hard for me to imagine this. 

But that doesn't mean I'm impressed when a guy says he is so special because he'd give me a one way.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> Every man I've been with would have been willing to eagerly give me a one way, any time, any place, just say go. And many men who were just trying to date me have used this offer as enticement.
> 
> And all of them, every single one of them, thought they were the only man on earth who was willing to do this.


True in my experience as well.

Almost every guy would do this and they all think that they're in the minority.

The cultural meme is that guys don't reciprocate. I think this might be driven by high value guys who some women throw themselves at. In this situation, the pursuer is making a maximal effort while the target doesn't feel the need to match it. 

Or, it's something else


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> It is interesting to read both your and Alex's reply.
> 
> My experience matches what Alex said. Every man I've been with would have been willing to eagerly give me a one way, any time, any place, just say go. And many men who were just trying to date me have used this offer as enticement.
> 
> ...


Ha! And here I am with my wife, and our first sexual encounter, I went down on her and gave her a one way, she had a puddle inducing orgasm, and I thought it was perfectly normal for guys to do that...and she was amazed for a plethora of reasons, not the least being that she had never known a guy who would do that for a woman.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Married-Man said:


> Had a good session with wife one recent night. I've noticed I want it more in the morning lately. She is not really a morning type.... but once in a while.
> 
> Anyway I left for a work trip the next day - had to be out the door by 2:00. All morning I'm waiting in bed taking my time - take a shower - back to bed ... no kids home. I know she doesn't want the whole deal having gotten off the night before....but I was really wanting a BJ. Especially since I was about to leave for 5 days.
> 
> ...


I'll give you a completely different perspective.

You're not wrong to want a bj from your wife, at any time. Whether you get it or not is another question.

If I wanted this (and I have), I'd tell my wife "I'd love a blowjob before I leave on my trip". She'd say "Sure" and very happily proceed to give me one. She wouldn't feel like a sex slave and would be very happy to do something that gave me such pleasure. 

This didn't just happen on it's own. She had to have no hangups about the act and I had to 1) be such a good husband that she would want to please me 2) tell her what I wanted 3) explain how much this meant to me and why 4) ask her directly for what I wanted.

First, your approach was very weak, passively laying around in bed hoping she'd guess what you wanted. If you want something, be direct, ask.

Second, the fact that you'd be willing to pleasure her sexually at any time is not a fair comparison to what you're asking her to do. Would you eagerly be willing to go window shopping in a cute downtown just because your wife's happiness is so important to you?

You're going to have to decide how big a deal you want to make of this. Pushing the issue with no results will just increase your resentment and damage the marriage. 

First, check out your side of the street and make sure that you're being the best husband you can be. Tell your wife why this is so important to you emotionally. Then ask for what you want. 

If it becomes clear that your wife fully knows how important this is to you and isn't capable of doing anything about it then either accept it or get a divorce (I'm guessing you'll just accept it). 

If it seems like she just doesn't care about your happiness enough to do anything about it then either accept it or you might want to stop doing things for her that you don't particularly want to do.


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## Married-Man (Dec 6, 2011)

sokillme said:


> Maybe you should. One word, Internet. Bottom line you guys need to talk about this stuff. She bolted, but she should have just said, hey I am not in the mood right now OK, and you should have been cool with that. Again we are not talking about a sexless marriage here.




Masturbating just isn't for me now. Not even on the 5 day trip. I look at porn occasionally. 

I used to jerk it like every other day. But that's cause we were only getting busy once or maybe twice a week. 

I addressed it out of the bedroom some years ago saying I'd like to do it every other day -- and that was hard for me to bring up Not knowing her desired frequency. So that's pretty much the norm. So I really have no desire or need to self gratify.


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## GoodFunLife (Apr 24, 2015)

Married Man - your wife is apparently not a naturally highly sexual woman so she doesn't see things the same way you do. She reacts to situations and feels attraction and desire differently than you do. I'm with you - if the house was empty and my wife was lounging in bed in the morning enticing me to come join her I would ravish her like no tomorrow but if I tried what you did she would have thrown the drink in my face for being a presumptuous jackass. 

She probably thinks she's doing the best she can to please you and your behavior may be tearing her up inside that her best is not good enough for you. Cut her some slack and give her some space. Stop the passive aggressive nonsense and be direct with her as others have suggested. 

There's also a good chance that she struggles to receive pleasure. That may sound impossible to believe but it happens more than you might think. And if you do anything to pressure her it only makes it more uncomfortable for her and you end up compounding the problem.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

It's also possible that she doesn't desire it every other day and does this for you. 

That's a great thing......compromise you can both live with. 

But she may feel that she's already going above and beyond what she really wants in order to make you happy and now it's not enough.....you must have unreciprocated bj's on top of that. 

This could cause some resentment on her part of she feels she's giving much more than you. As has been pointed out the fact that you'd do for her isn't a fair comparison because you're more sexual, so it's more of what you want. 

For her it's more of a sacrifice if it isn't what she wants but she does it anyway, and she may feel you don't appreciate it and continue to want more. So in effect you sacrifice less.

So the question then becomes what is reasonable to ask. 

Have you asked her how she feels about every other day? Speaking for myself if my hb and I were doing it every other day it would be difficult for me to enjoy amy of it because I wouldn't have time to build up again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

Faithful Wife said:


> It is interesting to read both your and Alex's reply.
> 
> My experience matches what Alex said. Every man I've been with would have been willing to eagerly give me a one way, any time, any place, just say go. And many men who were just trying to date me have used this offer as enticement.
> 
> ...


Maybe I overstated. I wasn't trying to say that most guys are totally selfish in bed. On the contrary, most, IME, will do their best to reciprocate. Sometimes they might need to be reminded, but they're obliging. But the one way offer? I've had guys use it to entice me too -- but it turns out they didn't really mean it. "Awww, baby, you can't leave me hanging ..."

Never met a guy who expressed his pride in willingness to give one-way satisfaction. And just walk away? It would be total fantasy fulfillment for me, but the only guy who has actually done it is my hubby, and then like twice in 20 years. So for me, a guy who actually was into it would be pretty special.

It would definitely cause me to change my mind about "servicing". The only reason I'm not a fan is that it was always one-sided.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

wild jade said:


> Maybe I overstated. I wasn't trying to say that most guys are totally selfish in bed. On the contrary, most, IME, will do their best to reciprocate. Sometimes they might need to be reminded, but they're obliging. But the one way offer? I've had guys use it to entice me too -- but it turns out they didn't really mean it. "Awww, baby, you can't leave me hanging ..."
> 
> Never met a guy who expressed his pride in willingness to give one-way satisfaction. And just walk away? It would be total fantasy fulfillment for me, but the only guy who has actually done it is my hubby, and then like twice in 20 years. So for me, a guy who actually was into it would be pretty special.


I would be happy to do this more often for my wife, the problem is, and I have heard other women say the same thing, is that after getting her off with my hands, mouth, toy or how ever, she'll be the one to say "Aww baby, don't leave me hanging..." because the vast majority of the time, she needs to have me inside her for her to feel, well...fulfilled.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Interesting. I can see how receiving a one-way sexual gift could be fun, as could providing one. I can also see it as a fun D/S game, but in general I actively enjoy pleasing my wife. 

Have you told your husband that this is something you would particularly enjoy? If my wife wanted it, I'd be happy to do it now and then as long as our overall sex life was balanced. 





wild jade said:


> snip
> 
> Never met a guy who expressed his pride in willingness to give one-way satisfaction. And just walk away? It would be total fantasy fulfillment for me, but the only guy who has actually done it is my hubby, and then like twice in 20 years. So for me, a guy who actually was into it would be pretty special.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

wild jade said:


> Never met a guy who expressed his pride in willingness to give one-way satisfaction. And just walk away? It would be total fantasy fulfillment for me, *but the only guy who has actually done it is my hubby, and then like twice in 20 years*. So for me, a guy who actually was into it would be pretty special.
> 
> It would definitely cause me to change my mind about "servicing". The only reason I'm not a fan is that it was always one-sided.


Ever told him you wanted that? If he's a good guy maybe he'd give it a go . 

I think this is mostly a red herring type situation if you think about it. By that I mean, if you took most / many / but not all men and offered a BJ *out of the blue* when he had no thought of sex on his mind would say "uh, OK!". Most / many / but not all, as in perhaps one in a hundred <g> women would say no every time unless she happened to have a stray sexual thought running around in her mind at the time.

To level the playing field a bit define out of the blue for the men as while he is watching a non-playoff football game. That should be about as not thinking about sex as you can get . For women, any time you aren't cuddling or she isn't reading a romance novel. 

I posit the positive response rate for say 1/2 the women would be less than 5%. Reponse rate for the other half would be somewhat higher to higher but in no case > 80%.

For men, > 90% positive for 60-70% of the men. Lower but no where near zero for all but maybe 10-20% of the rest.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

It's interesting how different people's experiences are! 

I have had so many guys request, even demand, standalone bjs and think absolutely nothing of it. Even get pissy when they don't get it. And so very few of them ever consider offering anything similar, but if they do, they get turned on, and it isn't really standalone any more. (Which BTW isn't really a problem as such, but it does mean the opportunity to actually just experience pleasure without focusing on someone else's as well doesn't really ever happen.)

And seriously, the only reason why I might turn down an offer like that is if it was from someone that I just didn't want sex with ever. For my hubby, pretty much any time he's willing, I'd be in. I totally can't relate this this whole "men want sex but women don't" mentality. 

Sorry for the threadjack, OP.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

uhtred said:


> Interesting. I can see how receiving a one-way sexual gift could be fun, as could providing one. I can also see it as a fun D/S game, but in general I actively enjoy pleasing my wife.
> 
> Have you told your husband that this is something you would particularly enjoy? If my wife wanted it, I'd be happy to do it now and then as long as our overall sex life was balanced.


Agree that sex is best reciprocal. It's just that I never get foreplay or back massages or any of that fun stuff where I get to revel in my pleasure, and so the opportunity to do so is pretty exciting to me. And yes, I have told him. That's why the number is 2 instead of 0. 

But in all fairness to him, I stopped giving him this gift some years ago because it seemed unfair that it would be a frequent pleasure for him, but non-existent for me.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

wild jade said:


> Agree that sex is best reciprocal. It's just that I never get foreplay or back massages or any of that fun stuff where I get to revel in my pleasure, and so the opportunity to do so is pretty exciting to me.


When my wife has just come out and said "do me" (not nearly often enough), I avoid reciprocation (can't really tell her I don't want it because then she might feel bad). I want her to feel free to ask for something without worrying about doing anything in return. 

The one-sidedness of it is what makes it such a cool thing.

Of course, as long as everyone's generally getting their sexual desires met.


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## Married-Man (Dec 6, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> It's also possible that she doesn't desire it every other day and does this for you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




She's good with every other day... and those sessions include foreplay for her -- she gets a 20 -30 min massage then hops on and usually (not always) orgasms. 

Not that I need much fp - but it would be great to get some oral after she gets off -- but she pretty much refuses to do oral on me after I've been in her. Doesn't want to. E tasting her own juices + she uses a diaphragm with jelly. I've asked but she doesn't like to - or will go get a soapy washcloth to clean me off first - (boo).


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Married-Man said:


> I guess I'd like to talk about:
> She's never tried weed or been drunk won't swear ... she will say it just doesn't appeal to have her consciousnesses altered. Why do I care ?


A good therapist will help you answer the question of why you care whether or not she shares your interest in smoking weed or drinking alcohol. Has she ever made you feel guilty for enjoying your 'vices'? 



Married-Man said:


> why are her boundaries/limits how they are (no anal no swallow no oral or manual on her) these are things I want but she doesn't give).


We all have sexual boundaries. If she's tried these things in the past and didn't enjoy the experience then it's no surprise that she doesn't want a repeat. Humans are pleasure seekers. We avoid unpleasant experiences and uninvited pain. I'm sure you can empathize on some level. 

Now if she's just 'meh' about it, then ask yourself why you want to perform the act? Is it something you are doing that actually gives you pleasure or are you seeking validation? IOW, are you okay with performing an act on her where she shows no response? Shows no enjoyment (no sound, no movement) and is just indifferent. 



Married-Man said:


> how can I better manage my own expectations? Not looking for answered to those things here - it's just what I would like to explore with a pro.


A good therapist will ask the right questions to get you to think. If you want a book suggestion, read Passionate Marriage by Dr. Schnarch. It'll help you recognize where you and your wife are different and how to deal with that difference. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## Married-Man (Dec 6, 2011)

Lila said:


> A good therapist will help you answer the question of why you care whether or not she shares your interest in smoking weed or drinking alcohol. Has she ever made you feel guilty for enjoying your 'vices'?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I don't drink - But like a little weed on the weekends. I find it enhances sensuality and sensitivity and relaxes - so great for sex. 

She doesn't complain - has no issue with it. But won't try it. I'd like her to experience it -- I don't pressure but have offered a # of times 

She's never tried swallowing or anal - so there's no bad experience there. 


I think it would give me pleasure to manually or orally stimulate her. But she is "meh" about it. So it might not be too exciting for me. 

I just pointed these things out to illustrate what I see are some inhibitions o wish she'd get over. But I guess it paints me as real loser a-hole here if I want her to expand her comfort zone. :/


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

Married-Man said:


> I think it would give me pleasure to manually or orally stimulate her. But she is "meh" about it. So it might not be too exciting for me


Try harder. When it comes to going down on her not being too exciting for you- that's not the point.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Married-Man said:


> I don't drink - But like a little weed on the weekends. I find it enhances sensuality and sensitivity and relaxes - so great for sex.
> 
> She doesn't complain - has no issue with it. But won't try it. I'd like her to experience it -- I don't pressure but have offered a # of times
> 
> ...


Ftr, I don't judge you as a loser a-hole but you definitely need to understand why you want what you want. It's why I recommended the book passionate marriage. 

If bringing your partner pleasure is what brings you pleasure, then you probably seek validation. I say focus on those things you enjoying doing that she also enjoys. Win-win.

If it's an act you'd like her to try, like swallowing, just ask her to do it once and promise her you'll never bring it up again if she hates it. If she still says no, move on to something else....e.g. get a sex swing or something. 

The weed thing is a whole other caboodle. My H and I are 4:20 friendly (within moderation). I get it but I also understand it's a personal choice. As long as she's not criticizing you then live and let live. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

blueinbr said:


> Use your hand.


OP if God didn't want you to do it he would have put the little feller in the middle of your back:wink2:

At 5 years old my mom use to put me to bed with boxing gloves on

Don't push it on this one Bud 

Take the long road of getting emotionally right with your sweetie

55


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## Married-Man (Dec 6, 2011)

just got it 55 said:


> OP if God didn't want you to do it he would have put the little feller in the middle of your back:wink2:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I hope you're kidding about the gloves. Lol

It's not like I'm trying to abstain from self love -- but Like green day said "masturbation's lost its fun". 

I used to be all about it. Seriously it's boring for me. I'd much rather stick it in my hot wife (duh!). I tried not too long ago - it just felt alien. I have no desire for it. I'm not gonna waste an orgasm on myself.... 

Now if this was a 3 week trip that - might be different story.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Married-Man said:


> If you don't think oral is connecting - You might be doing it wrong. Thanks for the feedback though... I do appreciate it the perspective actually.
> 
> So it sounds lame to lay around and hope to get Serviced. I guess it must. It was a rare occasion that we're both home with no kids and some time to kill... feeling like some action before I leave and miss my wife. That's about it... if that's wrong and makes me a childish selfish ****, I dunno


 I dunno either. Maybe you missed an opportunity to pick up a broom or something.

55


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Its a good discussion, maybe another thread on whether you get non-reciprocal sex.

I've many times made it clear to my wife that I'm happy to get give her oral or whatever she wants if she just wants to get off and is not feeling like reciprocating. I think she took me up on this once in 30 years - probably just to see if I meant it. She asks for and gets non-sexual back massages frequently.

Your not getting foreplay though seems much more an issue - I always considered that to a completely normal part of sex. At least half the time I'll spend a considerably length of time doing things to my wife before we get into mutual sex. 

Please smack you husband upside the head for not appreciating you enough. 





wild jade said:


> Agree that sex is best reciprocal. It's just that I never get foreplay or back massages or any of that fun stuff where I get to revel in my pleasure, and so the opportunity to do so is pretty exciting to me. And yes, I have told him. That's why the number is 2 instead of 0.
> 
> But in all fairness to him, I stopped giving him this gift some years ago because it seemed unfair that it would be a frequent pleasure for him, but non-existent for me.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

uhtred said:


> Its a good discussion, maybe another thread on whether you get non-reciprocal sex.
> 
> I've many times made it clear to my wife that I'm happy to get give her oral or whatever she wants if she just wants to get off and is not feeling like reciprocating. I think she took me up on this once in 30 years - probably just to see if I meant it. She asks for and gets non-sexual back massages frequently.
> 
> ...


Just for the record, my husband does appreciate me. No doubt. But he doesn't understand foreplay. Or massage. Or any of those sorts of things.

(IMHO non-sexual back massages are for therapists. What makes massage extra special are the sexual ones from your partner. Those are the best!)


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

wild jade said:


> (IMHO non-sexual back massages are for therapists. What makes massage extra special are the sexual ones from your partner. Those are the best!)


:grin2:


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

wild jade said:


> It's interesting how different people's experiences are!
> 
> I have had so many guys request, even demand, standalone bjs and think absolutely nothing of it. Even get pissy when they don't get it. And so very few of them ever consider offering anything similar, but if they do, they get turned on, and it isn't really standalone any more. (Which BTW isn't really a problem as such, but it does mean the opportunity to actually just experience pleasure without focusing on someone else's as well doesn't really ever happen.)
> 
> ...


I've never had a guy ask for a stand alone bj. Though I have given them lots of times because I wanted to.

There were times they asked for one but it was part of foreplay or it was reciprocal.

I have received lots of stand alone O's, in every relationship I've been in. They were always happy to do it and they knew they got the same plenty of times. It's just fun.

There have also been a lot of times when it began as a one way for one of us but it turned into sex for both because we were just having so much fun with it.

I really love sex with my current boyfriend and he can go multiple times a day. So with him, if one of us gives a one way, we always know we will both be getting more soon anyway so no one is ever waiting for theirs for very long.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I guess you need to teach him :smile2:

Now if only someone would teach my wife that sexual massages were a good thing...



wild jade said:


> Just for the record, my husband does appreciate me. No doubt. But he doesn't understand foreplay. Or massage. Or any of those sorts of things.
> 
> (IMHO non-sexual back massages are for therapists. What makes massage extra special are the sexual ones from your partner. Those are the best!)


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

Faithful Wife said:


> I've never had a guy ask for a stand alone bj.


Never? Really? Wow.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

wild jade said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > I've never had a guy ask for a stand alone bj.
> ...


I've never asked, nor ever had to ask. They've always been offered.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

wild jade said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > I've never had a guy ask for a stand alone bj.
> ...


Nope.

Never been with anyone who was a selfish lover in general. Maybe that's why?

I can't really even imagine being asked. How would they ask you, what did they say? I mean, how was it said or implied that they wanted just the bj but weren't going to give anything back? 

Lovers have asked me for bj's but there was never any indication they weren't going to reciprocate. A few times he asked, I was happy to oblige, then he moved toward me to take care of me but I said no thanks. Usually just due to being too tired or maybe I didn't feel well.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

Faithful Wife said:


> Nope.
> 
> Never been with anyone who was a selfish lover in general. Maybe that's why?
> 
> ...


I don't remember the exact words, but most frequent times is during my period. My h won't touch me with a 10-ft pole during that time, but there's a good 7 solid days of requests for bjs or hjs. Also happens when I'm not feeling well or have suggested that "now" might not be the time for sex. 

And guys I've been with before too felt no compunction about asking for stand-alone bjs. When there isn't enough time for more. When I'm on my period. Just because 

Maybe it's because they don't think it's freely offered enough? Or maybe they were just entitled? Don't know.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

wild jade said:


> I don't know about that one, man. A guy who is willing to give standalone pleasure to a woman is actually pretty hard to come by, at least IME. All the dudes I've been with are always sure to get theirs. In all my years, I've received maybe one or two orgasms without him also getting his. But guys often expect or demand this sort of non-reciprocal servicing, as though just pleasing him without concern for her own pleasure is every woman's duty. That's how it happens in porn after all. LOL.
> 
> Personally, I've learned to be cautious about doling out too much servicing because the reality is that a lot of dudes think women don't have or don't want or don't care about orgasms and sexual pleasure. I have to stand up for myself, to make a point of it to get mine. This is why there's all this "she comes first" sex advice. If she doesn't come first, then there's a good chance she doesn't come at all. And ends up only doing the servicing with none of the return benefits.


Let me re-iterate - there's a surplus of guys who think they're _special_ because they like going down on a woman.

I'm actually surprised you find they're hard to come by. I mean NO disrespect, but that's either your bad luck, or you're attracted to guys who tend to be more selfish, I don't know.

I have no empirical evidence to back this up, but I bet there's more men willing to give standalone oral sex than there are women. There are guys (like me) who genuinely enjoy it. And there are guys who enjoy the fact that they think they're a great catch because they like it (or "like" it), and advertise it.

I certainly can't disagree with your own personal experience - my wife made a point of telling me her past experiences in LTR's mirrored yours (ie. one-sided in bed) and that she loved that I genuinely wanted to please her. Sadly, I think she tries to make the same 'point' with me, as you said you do in your life, and that's to not dole it out too much to me...


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Faithful Wife said:


> It is interesting to read both your and Alex's reply.
> 
> My experience matches what Alex said. Every man I've been with would have been willing to eagerly give me a one way, any time, any place, just say go. And many men who were just trying to date me have used this offer as enticement.
> 
> ...


Funny that everybody has a very different viewpoint on this!

I genuinely think some men use this, as FW says, as an enticement. Who could resist that? :smthumbup: 

Apparently some women DO think it's worthy of consideration - and good on them. If their experience has dictated that this is not the norm, then go for it, it's all gravy if the guy is worthy in other ways, too.

But some men - most definitely - think that this is THE way to get a girl.

Ironically, my experience is with women who generally don't like to give oral, never mind standalone. I came across one, once, and it almost shocked me. BUT, she did not advertise it, or use it as a way to entice me. If she had, it would have been a turn off. I can imagine it would be for most women, too. Seriously, THAT'S the best thing you have to offer?


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

wild jade said:


> But in all fairness to him, I stopped giving him this gift some years ago because it seemed unfair that it would be a frequent pleasure for him, but non-existent for me.


See, I disagree with this. While I can understand your mentality behind it, I also think that if it's something you actually enjoy (giving him pleasure), then why stop?

Sexuality is so much more than just PIV. Many people don't get this. I know orgasms are different for women than they are men, especially oral versus manual versus PIV versus toys, etc. I also know quite well that many women do not feel fulfilled without PIV (no matter how many O's they've just had. My wife is like this, as is Sam's as he said).

For me, I'm a giver, in life and in bed. I don't think that makes me a great catch or the best husband in the world. It's just my personality. I don't do things for rewards, but I certainly don't mind some sort of recognition. I don't get pissy when I don't get it, though.

There are many times where, with sex with my wife, I am doing the majority of the work. Foreplay for me consists of a short handjob for 20-30 seconds or something. And then she wants me inside. (where I do the work). This after manually and orally stimulating her to orgasm(s). Other times, she goes down on me for a few minutes, and does other things. But about 70% of the time, it's all me. She doesn't just lie there, but it's still somewhat one-sided.

Once in a (very) blue moon, she takes charge from start to finish. I get actual foreplay and she gets on top and does the work, etc. I don't know what prompts this, but it's great, albeit rare. It's just nice to not have to do the work every now and again!


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Married-Man said:


> I think it would give me pleasure to manually or orally stimulate her. But she is "meh" about it. So it might not be too exciting for me.
> 
> I just pointed these things out to illustrate what I see are some inhibitions o wish she'd get over. But I guess it paints me as real loser a-hole here if I want her to expand her comfort zone. :/


A couple of times in my marriage, I've got hot and heavy with my wife, got her off orally or manually a couple of times, then walked away. This has only happened during the day, when I have a reason to leave the bedroom and do something else. This is because I only wanted to do THAT.

The few times I've done it, she was pissed off at first, but spent the rest of the day being quite loving towards me. It's lead to some evening sex later that day, too. Win/win. And on a few occasions, no sex later on because we were going out, or busy, or something.

It's just getting her brain around receiving standalone pleasure that she has a hard time with. I know she wants more from me (PIV) but I think in the end she either realizes a couple of oral O's aren't so bad, or she forgets how horny she was, later in the day.

Her personality is the type where the man has to visibly thoroughly enjoy himself in order for HER to thoroughly enjoy herself. I get that, because no matter how good my O was, if hers weren't hard and strong, I'm not fully satisfied. If she has a GREAT orgasm, she absolutely goes to town on me, making sure I get a great O, too. And if I have a somewhat weak one, she seems deflated. So when she gets a few O's and I happily walk away, it cheeses her off, I think!

Oh well, worse problems to have!


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

wild jade said:


> Never? Really? Wow.


I haven't asked for one since I was like 18 or so. If she (the woman I'm with at the time) is into it, she'll do it - and that does happen. If you have to ask, then it's not really her thing, and I have little interest in cajoling somebody into doing something - even if they'd agree to it.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

alexm said:


> Let me re-iterate - there's a surplus of guys who think they're _special_ because they like going down on a woman.


Oh, I thought you were just talking about standalone oral. Not just oral generally. 

Yes, sure, guys enjoy giving oral. It's just my experience that they often want/expect standalone oral but rarely offer that up.

And yes, maybe my sex life sucks. Fortunately, I don't know any different, so it's all good to me. LOL. My only point to OP was that if he was expecting to be serviced, he might have an easier time of it if it were reciprocal.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

alexm said:


> See, I disagree with this. While I can understand your mentality behind it, I also think that if it's something you actually enjoy (giving him pleasure), then why stop?


I did it for him, not for me. And it just didn't seem fair that I was always servicing him without any sort of reciprocation, and yet never got to enjoy that same pleasure myself.

You're right that it's not a terribly good solution to anything, but at the same time, I'm too lazy to bust my hump for something when it's always a one-sided affair with me doing all of the work and receiving none of the joy.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Your sex life doesn't suck, but one of the big problems with reading TAM is realizing that some people have it so much better than you do. 

I read a post by a guy who is unhappy that he was turned down once for a stand alone BJ. I understand that it makes him feel rejected. OTOH, I've had fewer than 10 BJs of any sort in 30 years or marriage and will never get another. I'm always willing and eager to do anything my wife wants in bed, anytime she wants it. 




wild jade said:


> Oh, I thought you were just talking about standalone oral. Not just oral generally.
> 
> Yes, sure, guys enjoy giving oral. It's just my experience that they often want/expect standalone oral but rarely offer that up.
> 
> And yes, maybe my sex life sucks. Fortunately, I don't know any different, so it's all good to me. LOL. My only point to OP was that if he was expecting to be serviced, he might have an easier time of it if it were reciprocal.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

wild jade said:


> Oh, I thought you were just talking about standalone oral. Not just oral generally.
> 
> Yes, sure, guys enjoy giving oral. It's just my experience that they often want/expect standalone oral but rarely offer that up.
> 
> And yes, maybe my sex life sucks. Fortunately, I don't know any different, so it's all good to me. LOL. My only point to OP was that if he was expecting to be serviced, he might have an easier time of it if it were reciprocal.


I _was_ referring to stand alone oral 

I don't think your sex life sucks (well, I don't actually know that, but it doesn't sound like it!). It's just that you seem to have a selfish (or at least borderline selfish) partner. But... many people do.

My wife isn't interested in receiving standalone oral, nor is she interested in giving it. Each does happen (once or twice a year, maybe) but for her, it's either all or nothing. I'm not like that. I'd prefer to mix it up and do other things, if not just for the variety of it. I think sex and sexuality is so much more than just PIV and there's so much to enjoy - by either giving OR receiving.

I don't disagree that if it's always one-sided then you don't want to do it. Totally get that. That said, when one has that mindset, the act of giving has suddenly become a tit-for-tat item, rather than an expression of one's sexuality. Or in my wife's case, the act of receiving becomes something she feels she has to reciprocate at some point. Again, tit-for-tat. I'm able to give without reciprocation, however my wife can not receive without feeling she has to - and she doesn't like that. She does not like 'owing' somebody something - anything. Conversely, she has a hard time GIVING things, too (not just sex acts). It's just the way she is, and honestly, it kind of sucks.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

alexm said:


> See, I disagree with this. While I can understand your mentality behind it, I also think that if it's something you actually enjoy (giving him pleasure), then why stop?
> 
> Sexuality is so much more than just PIV. Many people don't get this. I know orgasms are different for women than they are men, especially oral versus manual versus PIV versus toys, etc. I also know quite well that many women do not feel fulfilled without PIV (no matter how many O's they've just had. My wife is like this, as is Sam's as he said).
> 
> ...


Indeed, my wife needs PIV to feel fulfilled, no matter how many, or type of O's she already had, and that need became even greater once she discovered she could have vaginal O's.

The rest of what you said is very similar to my wife and I as well...She is always an active participant, but the vast majority of the "work" is done by me. It took me quite a while to accept any stand alone O's for myself, but once I took a step back and looked at our sex life in totality, she does, and always has had the better end of things. A lot of that has to do with simple biology...she's likely to have multiple O's in multiple ways per session, where I am only going to have one. Most of the foreplay is focused on her, even on the occasions where she is doing more of the work.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

samyeagar said:


> Indeed, my wife needs PIV to feel fulfilled, no matter how many, or type of O's she already had, and that need became even greater once she discovered she could have vaginal O's.
> 
> The rest of what you said is very similar to my wife and I as well...She is always an active participant, but the vast majority of the "work" is done by me. It took me quite a while to accept any stand alone O's for myself, but once I took a step back and looked at our sex life in totality, she does, and always has had the better end of things. A lot of that has to do with simple biology...she's likely to have multiple O's in multiple ways per session, where I am only going to have one. Most of the foreplay is focused on her, even on the occasions where she is doing more of the work.


Swear to god, same woman...

Anyway, despite the (I don't want to say "one-sided", so I'll say 80-20 split) with it all, I'm not unhappy with the sex I'm having. It's really nothing to complain about in the grand scheme of things.

It's just that I would prefer a longer session, a little more drawn out and sensual. Not necessarily slow-paced and romantic, just not the way my wife seems to always want it - 'get it inside me, now!' My ex wife was very similar (but for different reasons...). I've had some experience with women who aren't in this great rush, or who don't lose their excitement if A, B or C doesn't happen within the next 20 seconds, and honestly, it's fantastic that way, IMO. It doesn't necessarily make for better sex, but it does make for a better _experience_.

To be fair, my wife isn't in a rush to get it over with (my ex wife, yeah...). It's just that it's the way she prefers it. It's almost as though her interest will wane if it takes too long or the 'good stuff' doesn't happen immediately. And for her, the good stuff is PIV, in different positions, for multiple O's. She'd genuinely be thrilled to death with a guy who gave her oral for 10 seconds, then put it in - but who could last long enough for her to have at least two O's. She couldn't care less if she never had another orgasm apart from PIV - even though she definitely enjoys them in the other ways.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

It's interesting to see various experiences different posters have had. Before I met my hb I'd had one bf in high school give me oral.....and we never had piv sex. Beyond that no guy has ever offered it until my hb.

Ex hb was very selfish.....it was about him getting his and that's it, he was done. I gave him oral from time to time but he offered nothing.

When I met my current hb he offered it and for quite some time I couldn't finish with it because I was uncomfortable with it....probably because it had been so long since I'd had it.

Eventually I got more comfortable with it and now very much look forward to it, and hb offers a lot. Most of the time it's reciprocal but sometimes its stand alone.

This is probably correlated to my willingness to give hb bj's as well as have sex when I'm not really in the mood. Our environment is one of giving.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

I've never asked a girl for a bj either. 

I'll sometimes sort of hint at it, for example after having sex I won't orgasm and after she does I'll sort of lay back and she'll just naturally take care of me. 

Asking for it.. even if I really WANT one?

It's just lame. 

"Honey I want a BJ! Pleaasssseeee?"

Nope not going there.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

A young girl asked her mother what do girls who have sex get.
Her mother said they get pregnant.
The girl asked what do girls who give blowjobs get.
Her mother said they get jewellery.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

browser said:


> I've never asked a girl for a bj either.
> 
> I'll sometimes sort of hint at it, for example after having sex I won't orgasm and after she does I'll sort of lay back and she'll just naturally take care of me.
> 
> ...



Hmmmm....this doesn't resonate with me, either.

I don't think asking for a bj is lame. I ask for all kinds of sexual attention, specific things, when I want them. 

As I have said....men have asked me for them, it is just that there was never any implication that it wouldn't be reciprocated. Asking for a specific sex act isn't lame, why would it be? And it was never asked me of in a whiny "pleaasssseeeeeee" tone. 

I have asked him to go down on me as well, and again, there is no implication that it will not be reciprocated. Do I ask him in a lame whiny voice? No! Why would I?

"Mmmmmmm baby I'd love it if you'd....." with closed eyes and a warm smile while I'm wiggling around naked on the bed.

And he would ask in the sexy male equivalent of this.

Sometimes he will even say "get over here and service me, wench" in his pirate voice, and I'll happily oblige, because I know this is a cute game we are playing....and again of course, I know he has every intention to also service me in anyway I'd like.

Asking for things isn't a problem and isn't whiny.

Asking for things when you know it is only about you and you are literally using your partner for one way pleasure with no awareness that they dislike it, feel used, or would like it to be reciprocated in some way is lame and whiny, no matter how it is said.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Andy1001 said:


> A young girl asked her mother what do girls who have sex get.
> Her mother said they get pregnant.
> The girl asked what do girls who give blowjobs get.
> Her mother said they get jewellery.


I mean....this is funny....or it would have been funny to me a long time ago.

But stupid jokes like this just perpetuate the myth that sex is for men, not women. That women will be shamed (by pregnancy, by other mocking, by social stigma). That men "only want sex". That sex is a trade women make for money.

I'm all down for legalizing sex work, so that the men AND WOMEN who want to pay for sex and the men and women who want make money by sexually servicing others can do so legally and (more) safely. There is nothing morally wrong (IMO) with an exchange of money for sex between two people who KNOW this is what their arrangement is and who are both adults and consenting.

But most of us actually just want to have sex with each other because it feels good and/or we love and care about each other.

I know that in the past, there was no possible way for a woman to claim outright that she ENJOYED giving a bj. It just wasn't done. You would be shamed off of the planet. Therefore, a joke like the above made total sense. Why would a woman do this act unless she was given money or jewelry, was a completely logical thought.........a long time ago.

This is no longer the case, and thank god. Why should women have to hide their sexual preferences from the world as if sex is only pleasurable for men? Even a bj which is mostly about pleasuring the man....can still be so enjoyable for so many women...and yet in the past to claim this would be like stamping your own forehead with SL*T in red ink. These days though? I really enjoy hearing women who love giving bjs talk about their thoughts and feelings on it. 

The penis is a fascinating and incredible organ. It is not a dirty yucky thing only nasty girls put in their mouths.

Let's all grow up and stop this "men want sex and women give it to them for financial gain" cultural position. It is out of date and was originated in shame and punishment.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> I mean....this is funny....or it would have been funny to me a long time ago.
> 
> But stupid jokes like this just perpetuate the myth that sex is for men, not women. That women will be shamed (by pregnancy, by other mocking, by social stigma). That men "only want sex". That sex is a trade women make for money.
> 
> ...



Funny joke aside, this mentality doesn't benefit men either. 

At least not men who desire an enthusiastic partner.

The ones who are ok with women who put up with sex for the resources said men can bring might be fine with it, but I get the feeling that most men want an enthusiastic partner.

That won't be achieved with the attitude that men want sex and good girls put out for a price.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Exactly!

Don't you guys want to hear things like....."most women really love their man's package"...?

In order to hear this, you must stop saying things like "most women don't like giving bjs but will do so for favors".

The younger generation is ahead of this curve finally. Those chicks ain't sorry for being sexual human beings, just like GUYS are not expected to be sorry for it.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Would love to hear that. Sadly what I hear is "giving a BJ is like having your mouth held open at the dentist while urinates in it". 

Sex is fun, I wish everyone could enjoy both receiving and giving pleasure. 





Faithful Wife said:


> Exactly!
> 
> Don't you guys want to hear things like....."most women really love their man's package"...?
> 
> ...


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> Exactly!
> 
> Don't you guys want to hear things like....."most women really love their man's package"...?
> 
> ...


Maybe, let's check back in 10 or 15 years after they've been married a while


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

anonmd said:


> Maybe, let's check back in 10 or 15 years after they've been married a while


We've been together 11 1/2 years and my hb still gets them. 

But he reciprocates all of the time unless I specifically tell him I'm not up for it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> We've been together 11 1/2 years and my hb still gets them.
> 
> But he reciprocates all of the time unless I specifically tell him I'm not up for it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm at 20 years now, and husband still gets them multiple times per week.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

uhtred said:


> Would love to hear that. Sadly what I hear is "giving a BJ is like having your mouth held open at the dentist while urinates in it".






uhtred said:


> Sex is fun, I wish everyone could enjoy both receiving and giving pleasure.


:smthumbup:


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> We've been together 11 1/2 years and my hb still gets them.
> 
> But he reciprocates all of the time unless I specifically tell him I'm not up for it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My comment (check back in 10 or 15 years) was directed at the thought that the younguns have a new attitude. Maybe, but I largely doubt it. Not talking about BJ's specifically...


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

anonmd said:


> lifeistooshort said:
> 
> 
> > We've been together 11 1/2 years and my hb still gets them.
> ...


You are talking about the generation who watched porn after school instead of cartoons.

I will take your bet any day and if we are all still here at TAM by then, we can see if I'm right.

Now I'm not saying people won't get bored with their sex partners in some cases...that will always happen. 

I'm just saying even if they do end up in sexless relationships in the future, the women who are 25 and under today will not revoke their sexuality or disavow their love of sex. This is not a fad. This is a re-write of what all the old people used to think and say. Things like the jewelry for a bj joke.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Faithful Wife said:


> Hmmmm....this doesn't resonate with me, either.
> 
> I don't think asking for a bj is lame. I ask for all kinds of sexual attention, specific things, when I want them.
> 
> ...


If my wife had your thought pattern about this subject, I'd have no problem asking, either. But she doesn't, nor do most women I've come across. Doesn't mean they don't exist, and you're the only one, of course!

I'm with you, in that if I had a partner who asked for these things, I'd happily oblige. I think many men would, and would also be thrilled to death to have a partner whom they could also freely ask. The thing is, I've been conditioned not to ask, and honestly, that's sad.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Faithful Wife said:


> You are talking about the generation who watched porn after school instead of cartoons.
> 
> I will take your bet any day and if we are all still here at TAM by then, we can see if I'm right.
> 
> ...


I hope you're right, and I also hope you're wrong. I think there's a middle balance to be had.

What I see nowadays is people who put very little emphasis on the emotional and intimate aspects of sex and sexuality, and it's almost purely for physical enjoyment only.

What my 16 year old knew about sex (and sex acts) at the age of 12 or 13, I didn't know until I was 19, 20 (or even older in some cases). The language he and his girlfriend use while chatting/texting blows my mind, but it's no big thing to them.

I liken this generations perception of sex the way mine did to violence - we've both become so accustomed to seeing one or the other that it no longer resonates with us. I grew up in the era of cable TV and increasingly violent and gory movies, and the dawn of CNN. What you see on TV (The Walking Dead, for example) wouldn't have been on TV at all, and would have been rated R (or even X) if it were a movie. "Back in MY day!" (old man voice

But it's the cultural norm these days, at least in North America.

On one hand, I see young women more freely expressing their sexuality (again, I've seen it firsthand with my stepson and his girlfriend. I'm never looking at his tablet again...). On the other, I wonder when these girls grow into women, if they can keep up - or WANT to keep up - with the porn culture they're all so accustomed to nowadays, in terms of how one's sexuality is expressed.

There's definitely a balance to be had, IMO. The boys are now growing up with porn as the basis for their sexual expression. Many girls, too. Girls are being taught (and rightfully so) that their sexuality isn't something to be ashamed of. However, there's still a gap that I see going on, between what boys are viewing as 'normal' and therefore imparting to girls their age, the ones they're dating, etc.

To be fair to my stepson and his girlfriend, I've not once seen anything not mutual (he's also past the age where we feel we should be monitoring his online interactions, btw. As soon as he turned 16, we allowed him his privacy. Prior to that, no, he was a true minor).


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## Tino (Nov 15, 2016)

Wow great insight


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