# Confused



## DazedHubby (Mar 31, 2014)

My wife and I, have been married for 20 years, We would have been celebrating our 21st this April. It hurts me dearly that she told me about a month ago, she wants a separation.

This is where it gets complicated, in fact, I just don't get it. ( well Kinda ? )

I was sexually active before we met, in fact we broke up and I came back to her, because she made me realize what I was missing. She has ONLY been with me sexually. That's a problem driving her decision.

She has told me, we married to young, and we need this separation because she feels trapped down, and wants to be able to go out and not feel attached. Also driving this is the fact she is just plain beautiful. Now, one might think I'm biased ( of course ) but it is what it is and she knows it. She feels like she is in her prime an she may miss the boat if you will, this is the only time she feels like she can do this. She's also afraid of getting old, but that's another story lol....

She says she feels like she may be missing out on stuff if she doesn't do this now, and don't want to be arguing with me when were old! really ? she tells me she wants to get old with me and I believe her.

I told her if she messed around while were separated that would be the deal breaker. My values wont allow that to happen, in fact, she wants me to go out and flirt as well, but I just cannot do that. That goes against my common core of values.

I have always been that guy who listens to everything, and try not to be argumentative, but give answers to the problem. 

earlier I mentioned I kind of get it because I am the only man she has even been with, and I have been with other woman. But I remind her that when I married her that my clock had reset, and I was a virgin as well. I have never cheated on my wife. I can tell you this, my wife has not cheated on me.

And this is what I'm struggling with.

She respects me enough, to come tell me her problems, rather than just go out and cheat on me. Now, she doesn't directly say she wants sex, but deep down inside, I believe that's what she wants. She doesn't want to hurt me by coming out and saying it. This could be my insecurities talking and I hope so, she just tells me she needs this time to build her network of friends etc.

That's why I'm. giving her what she wants for now, but made it crystal clear that she cant have her cake and eat it too. As mentioned above, My values wont allow this.

Oh, and another thing, its just a verbal, I'm not moving out HOWEVER,

I have moved out of the room, into the downstairs room, taking everything with me, because that's the only way she can truly get her space, without moving out.

It just sucks because on a scale of 1-10 for being sensitive, I'm a 10. Wish I was your typical scumbag that could go out and capitalize on another sexual encounter, but I cant but yet, I have to let her ? hell now, ill give her the space that's it.

I may be all over the place with my thoughts and I'm sorry, but one reason that could explain this is that since day one, we have always spent time together, shopping, whatever, I mean we are ALWAYS together, because we enjoy our time together obviously, and she says this space will get back what she feels like she is missing and come running back to me. We were actually talking about earlier about how she wants to get me another desk, and we should go shopping for one lol, had to remind her of what were talking about. So the spark is still there, she just needs to go out and do her thing. I guess I don't understand fully because woman were made from planet Venus, and man from mars...perhaps ?

Marriage is like a business, if your not changing, your not growing, you have to make sacrifices and work through stuff, if not , you most certainly will fail. That's why were both always working out, being open minded and communicating constantly. Taking care of ourselves so we can still be attractive to each other. Wish she would stop working out lol...sigh

On top of all this, she makes it perfectly clear that this I all her, and I'm doing absolutely nothing wrong. of course I believe her, because she's right. I do want her to be happy.

We had a come to Jesus verbal meting today, and we both agreed the marriage is worth fighting for, and she still wants to get old with me , and we will prove to everyone that it will work.

Anyways, I'm rambling, I have so much more but that's pretty much where the rubber meets the road.

Respectful, courteous questions/comments are appreciated . I would just like another opinion as I have talked about this to others and received theirs.

Have a great day !


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

You sound like you have a great wife in that she respects you and can communicate to you. A lot of guys are on here because their wife just went off and had an affair. I think you have something worth fighting for.

Here is some homework:

What Do Women Really Want? | Psychology Today

You seem like a fairly confident guy, but it is worth exploring if your too nice a guy such that the foundations for a passionate relationship is shaky. I am not saying you need to treat her badly, but a lot of women like men to lead in their relationships and years of framing every decision and choice in an egalitarian manner can throw water on the fire. I know its messed up but people are wired in ways that don't completely make sense. Start with little things--like where you will eat out next.

Give her some space, but your condition should be that you do it with counseling with a mind to reconcile. Don't move out, it would be probably be the end of the marriage. She needs to communicate why she feels this way for this to get better and your going to probably have change in ways you don't expect.

Good Luck


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## DazedHubby (Mar 31, 2014)

All I can say is WOW!

I appreciate the link you gave me. It certainly opened my eyes to a lot of things I was naïve about.

At the very base of this principle is the understanding of a woman’s psychological need for a variety of sex partner’s. Psychologically, women are hardwired differently than men. A woman has a dual sex drive. The first is centered on finding a mate for life to help support her and her offspring. This is why (and when) love is such an important part of a women’s sexual desire. The second is a desire to obtain a variety of the best genetic material to produce the best children. This second desire begins to grow once a woman has found her life mate and grows stronger as time with him progresses. Eventually, this later and more powerful drive overpowers her sexual desire for her life mate. This is why a woman’s sexual desire for her husband diminishes over time. At the same time her sexual desire for other men is increasing. Often this desire for other men becomes so strong she cannot deny it. This does not make her immoral or mean that she no longer loves her husband. It is simply part of her genetic code.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Something or someone has peaked her interest more than you. You didn’t marry too young and after 20 years is a mute point. We all at various times in our lives would love to turn back the clock, yet its impossible. 

Spend some time and read other posts, this site is littered with the “casualties” of cheating including myself. Have you done any investigative work? Checked her emails, phone, before you think nothing is going on start doing this. Women are wired different than men and rarely will women just want to sow wild oats. Listen to what she said, not what you wanted to hear and start investigating her activities. 

I sound cynical but if nothing was wrong why does she want to do this? Your sexual history 20 years ago has nothing to do with the here and now. She wants to grow old with you, yet she wants to find something different. Think about that statement.


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

DazedHubby said:


> All I can say is WOW!
> 
> I appreciate the link you gave me. It certainly opened my eyes to a lot of things I was naïve about.
> 
> At the very base of this principle is the understanding of a woman’s psychological need for a variety of sex partner’s. Psychologically, women are hardwired differently than men. A woman has a dual sex drive. The first is centered on finding a mate for life to help support her and her offspring. This is why (and when) love is such an important part of a women’s sexual desire. The second is a desire to obtain a variety of the best genetic material to produce the best children. This second desire begins to grow once a woman has found her life mate and grows stronger as time with him progresses. Eventually, this later and more powerful drive overpowers her sexual desire for her life mate. This is why a woman’s sexual desire for her husband diminishes over time. At the same time her sexual desire for other men is increasing. Often this desire for other men becomes so strong she cannot deny it. This does not make her immoral or mean that she no longer loves her husband. It is simply part of her genetic code.


I'd prescribe a bit of caution as that the article I linked has a lot very cogent thoughts based on research that is probably true for for many but certainly not all. There is some hazard in taking material like this too far but it does provide food for thought and perhaps some insight into what your dealing with. I'd considering asking your wife to read it. Even if you don't discuss the details, it might help her understand something about what she feels. 

That said, we are not chimps and the higher order conscience ought to come into play against baser instincts that would destroy what we love. If all the problem you have is manifested emotions from evolutionary biology like what this article points to, then you ought to be able to fix that by spicing things up and perhaps with counseling. But you both have to want that.

The previous poster that said she might have another love interest may have a point. She may want to separate because she has fallen for a guy and wants to explore that, without feeling like she is cheating, while keeping you on the back burner because your safe and she is not sure. Absolute honesty is needed. Ask if she has feelings for anyone else, but not as an accusation and be prepared for the answer. Assuming she has not cheated on you (extensively --some would consider flirting cheating) already you are in way better shape than most that have to deal with a wayward heart in their spouse. My wife wanted to separate and it was pretty transparent that she wanted that to pursue her affair but only because I found out about the affair.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

People rarely leave one relationship without another prospect in mind, heart or hand. 

Separation is usually the first step to D. 

I have some questions:

Why do you need to separate? You are still in the house. What will you do differently that requires you to be tucked away? Does she plan on going out to bars and flirting with men? 

Why are you the one who has to leave the comfort of the master BR? 

You are approaching this like you are going on separate vacations. This is serious and you have to get a plan if you still want to be married in a year. Hit this hard that's the only way to save your marriage. 

Would you be comfortable with coming up with an alternate plan. You are being driven by her agenda. Space, what is she going to do with the space? 

If she wants a separation, make it legal. File papers. Separate finances make a budget for her. In the meantime go to MC. If she is not willing to work on the problems then you may have to make things permanent. 

You may think she would never cheat but you have to investigate anyway. Weightlifter is a member who is a surveillance guru. It might be good to PM him for some tips.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"This does not make her immoral or mean that she no longer loves her husband. It is simply part of her genetic code."

This study is explaining a biological truth.

However, it is NOT an excuse for her going outside of your M for sex with other men.

Men are biologically wired to spread their seed as much and as widely as possible.

Does that make it OK for us guys to run around on our committed partners and f**k any woman we can convince to sleep with us?

The answer is a resounding NO.

Because, in addition to being biological creatures, we are thinking and social ones. 

The concept of M and the vows that go with it are SOCIAL, not biological, constructs.

They are the direct result of our capacity for higher level thinking and the power this gives us, as opposed to other animals, to control our sexual choices and acts.

Dazed,

Stick with your dealbreaker stance on her going outside the M for sex.

I think it is incredibly insulting and disrespectful for her to tell you that she wants to, and intends to, 'grow old' with you, but she is at the same time blatantly maneuvering herself to go have adulterous relationships in the meantime.

If she takes one step in that direction, you need to immediately enforce your boundary with D papers and steps to permanently remove her from your life as much as possible, as kids will always mean you have some interaction with her.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The first thing you need to do is check phone records, texts, and emails to see if there is one number she's been in contact with a lot.


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## DazedHubby (Mar 31, 2014)

I appreciate everyone's reply, as I have read each one.

This is pretty complicated TBH. 

Before I continue, 
I would like to say that this week has been really good thus far, for both of us. We had lunch Monday and we discussed several things, that I will go into below, but the first thing we agreed upon is that we don't want to fight with each other. We want to start over as friends, just like we did 20 years ago, and work our ways back to each other. She made it perfectly clear that she doesn't want to divorce me, and that she wants to grow old with me. With that said, you couldn't tell is anything was wrong this week, other than the fact that I'm sleeping downstairs. I have moved everything down, including all toiletries etc. The only thing left is my small dresser, that I have been delaying because I cant get myself to move it yet, because it hurts me. Its almost like she's giddy to the fact I'm downstairs now. She has told me she loves me before she leaves the house, even up to the point she left to go out with her "girlfriends" tonight, everything was fine until how I saw how she looked and my emotions started up again with bad thoughts.


We had a come to Jesus meeting this Monday and talked about a bunch of things.
I wish I could simplify this with one statement, but its complicated. She states that if she doesn't get this out of the way now, we will be arguing about it later and feels this is the only time she can go out with her friends while not being tied down by me. She wants to be able to go out, and not have that feeling. Now, she understands and I have told her about the deal breaker. Unfortunately, there isn't going to be anyway for me to find out, because she won't tell me if it happens. She didn't tell me this, I just know her that she doesn't want to hurt me so Ill never know , that is just unfair for me. I had caught her in lies before, and the reasoning behind it is to protect my feelings.

I made it perfectly clear that she has way more to lose than I do, because she wont have me as a friend if that happens. From the looks of her face she didn't like it but tough.

Now , in a perfect world for this to be going on, Yea I can give her the space needs by moving out of the room. Allowing the space to go out and flirt and do whatever she prefers, WO cheating.

Keep in mind our agreement for flirting is not cheating, we are fine with that because of human nature. We both just need to have the control over it. I most certainly do.

if this is all that she is going to do then fine, things will eventually work out then we will be back together.

My gut feeling is that, she will flirt and find that one guy to have no strings attached sex. She made it clear to me that she is no in a relationship with anyone, nor does she want one because she has me to deal with. She has not given out her one number to anyone. I had told her there is no such thing as no strings sex. There is emotions no matter what and before you know it we have stalker at our door and we both have to deal with it. Not to mentions possible STD's etc.

But what if she truly just wants the space ? then why do we need to seperate ? why do you think this is ? I just checked my drawers, and saw that she has moved some socks into them. She is REALLY liking this.

however anyone interprets this, it just sucks because of what I have to lose. My 19 year old daughter will be devastated. if I didn't have a daughter, My whole approach would be different.

she will find out I'm sleeping downstairs, but we talked about how we will discuss it. We will just be honest and tell her that her mom needs space and that we still love each other, we are not divorcing. Is this a bad or good idea ?

I mean, I am taking a chance that something could happen, and something could not. I feel like she is getting everything she wants, and I'm sacrificing everything. I'm holding on and willing to work because of what we both have to lose, I still love her like the day we met. If she loved me like I love her, would anyone do this ?

just a thought, anyone want to answer that ?

I don't know, I'm just looking for advice on what I should do. 

anyone please comment, I have several idea's floating around in my head, just don't want to do the wrong thing at this juncture

This Friday we are are getting lunch together. I'm going out that night, an so is she but separate. 

Another note,

Se doesn't want MC now, she feels we can work this out on our own. I started to pressure her, telling her I have a plan to move out into my friends house, at least for now if things don't work out, then she will have to do MC.

when confronted with all this, I could tell by her expression she didn't like that and told me I needed to stop reading and its not going to get that far. I got to tell you, she's telling all her friends she's a hot mess, and she is!

anyways, as I said above we are having lunch this Friday. everything has gone so well I don't want to bring anything up before then. But , I'm not okay with this and I need to handle this in a way that wont be so dramatic for her, putting anymore pressure on her so she will listen. Perhaps I should just be a D$%K and drop a bombshell on her ?

Should I give her a deadline on when this will be over ? I'm going too. And what about sex ? Is she still obligated to give me sex while separated ? if not, then that's the idea behind the deadline, because I'm not going 6-8 months without it, not knowing if she has or not, that's where I draw the line.

I mean at least for her, life is good we are getting along while she goes out and explores...that's not right.

Is my love for her that important to sacrifice everything I'm going through ?

Comments appreciated !

Have a good evening.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

Your wife has a boyfriend.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

This is nuts! I've never heard of anything quite like this, honestly. Running you out of your OWN bedroom, moving her clothes into your empty drawers? Tell her to hit the highway. Go out and find someone else Honey, I'll see you in court.

I mean, really, who behaves this way? I'll tell you who... someone with an eye for someone ELSE.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Why is all of this about what she wants?

How about this: "Dear wife. I want to have a happy vibrant marriage to you. If you want your own space you are free to move out of the house. I expect my wife and I to share the same bedroom. If you choose to move out it will mean to me that you no longer wish to remain married to me. If you remain in this home I believe marriage counseling will be necessary for us to get our relationship back on track. Therefore I have made an appointment with a marriage counselor on (day) at (time). I will be there, and I hope you will be too."

You need to take firm control of this situation. You also need to set solid and specific boundaries with her. 

If she does go out clubbing I think you need to hire a PI or have a trusted friend whom she doesn't know watch her. You need to go 007 on this one. We've seen your situation here numerous times and it frequently means she is in an affair or is planning on it. Her friend(s) may be co-conspirators. Search carefully for a secret phone in her car, purse, closet, dresser, etc. put a keylogger on the family computer to capture any secret email accts. Review bank statements very carefully. Scour her contact lists, and verify every number belongs to the person named. Many cheaters use a fake name in their contact list. 

Don't play Nice. She's put your marriage in serious jeopardy, not you.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

DazedHubby said:


> My wife and I, have been married for 20 years, We would have been celebrating our 21st this April. It hurts me dearly that she told me about a month ago, she wants a separation.
> 
> This is where it gets complicated, in fact, I just don't get it. ( well Kinda ? )
> 
> ...


I would consider individual counseling (IC) to support you concerning your wife's mid-life crisis (MLC). Her actions point is this direction. You will need to establish and defend your relationship boundaries.... IC can help

http://divorcesupport.about.com/od/isdivorcethesolution/f/midlifecrisis.htm
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

karole said:


> Your wife has a boyfriend.


Yep, and she is playing you like a fiddle...

Reach around your back, feel if there are some strings attached there, then reach down and see if she took your jewels too. 

You're too passive and predictable, you don't attract her that way anymore. She's only attracted to you for the safety and security, you represent. She wants risky and exciting, that what turns her on now. 

You think if you give her what she wants, she'll make nice. That's exactly what got her looking for someone strange. You're a pleaser. You'll do anything to please her, even at your on expense. She's lost respect for you, because she sees you don't respect yourself. Its written all over your postings. 

Show respect for yourself, enough with these negotiations. She is opening up your marriage to other people, and you're stepping around it. Do it right, let her have what she wants. Hand her divorce papers so she can go out and hook up with other men, without guilt. Or will you accept her cuckolding you?


Dammm, you actually left your own bed, because she wants to go out cavorting? I'd have her bags on the street, when she got back from her first evening.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

"Wife, I deserve a wife who WANTS ME. You obviously don't, so I'm making plans to separate. You'll hear from my lawyer."

Please trust that you are now officially a DOORMAT and the only way she will ever choose you again is to see you LEAVING.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm not sure why you are being so agreeable to your wife about this.

She can expand her social life without you moving out of your bedroom. What she means by expanding her social life is she wants to date other men.

Everything you are doing right now will only lead a very ugly and bitter end to your marriage.

I agree that with others, your wife already has a boyfriend. If you don't believe it, do some snooping to prove us wrong. Have you check her phone to see who she is contact with? I'd follow her, or get a PI to follow her, on her night out. You will not like what she's up to.

There is only one reason that your wife is doing what she's doing. She's dating another guy.


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

anchorwatch said:


> Yep, and she is playing you like a fiddle...
> 
> Reach around your back, feel if there are some strings attached there, then reach down and see if she took your jewels too.
> 
> ...


Dazzed. Listen to anchor. This the most important post in this thread. This all stinks to high heaven.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

DazedHubby, I'm sorry to sound harsh. I do see you know what you need to do, yet you are struggling with it. I suspect you've not thought about yourself and proper boundaries in a long time. Do you have close male friends, that you confide in anymore? Do you engage in regular recreational activities with other men?

Here read what these men have to say about their experiences...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/14963-boundaries-men.html 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/27426-what-ive-learned-past-year-good-news-story.html

You can find guidance, advice and a plan to move forward on these sites...

Brother member Athol's site, 911 Relationship ER - Married Man Sex Life Forum

Dr Glover's site, No More Mr. Nice Guy Online Support Group 

Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf


BTW, Do you think your 19 year old daughter would do better to watch you stand by while your wife pushes you out and goes out cavorting? Or if she sees you take a stand for yourself and a proper relationship? I'm not talking about controlling your wife, since its impossible to control anyone else's behaviors. I'm talking about you setting your personal boundaries and not allowing yourself to give into someone who disrespects them. I can't say this will save your marriage. I do say you deserve better and you should instinctively know that its okay to have better.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

Dazed,

Your wife is attempting to let you down easily.

She already has her exit strategy planned. This so-called "separation to get space" is step #1.

Move your stuff back into your bedroom. If she doesn't like it, she can move.

I recommend you put a VAR under her car seat. You'll have some *real *answers and* real* truth in a day or two.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

To save your marriage you have to be ready to end your marriage. There is no safe strategy, no safe move, no simple way to finesse your wife back into a stable beautiful marriage.

Seriously, she has taken drastic steps which have put the marriage on very thin ice.

I'm sorry to put it like this, but it is true. You will be fooling yourself if you think this is a minor mis-step on her part. Nothing will guarantee she finds her way whole-heartedly back into the marriage. You cannot Nice her back to you. She needs to be shocked. She must believe you are serious, which means you must be resolute in your actions.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Dazed 

It's time to get your feet under you again. This woman is not the one you married. The woman before you is focused on herself to the exclusion of you, her family and her home. Your wife is gone.

This new person is a stranger. She does not have your or your daughters interest at heart. She is addicted to the pleasure of pursuit of one or more OM. 

YOU have to drive this process. You said if it were not for your daughter you would act differently. That is precisely it. It is just you and your daughter. This stranger has no interest your family. 

It's MC now or legal separation and D. Don't be used. It is convenient for her to keep you on hand in the dungeon in case she needs someone to kill a bug. 

You fail to see that you are not negotiating with your wife. You are dealing with a self-centered, cruel, heartless beotch. It is difficult to accept that but take as a working conclusion now. It may change.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

You’re the deer in the headlights right now. This wont stop with flirting, wake up and telling yourself you could get over a ons that it wont mean anything is foolish and you are just kidding yourself.

If you allow it to happen once, it will happen again and again. If its not already happening now. If this quest means that much to her, she must understand that means a divorce, you don’t really have any alternative unless you want this to continue till she finds someone she wants more than you which will happen quickly because the fun fantasy world she wants to play in is much more fun than you and real life 

You are aiding the demise of your own marriage and basically tossed any value you have out the door in her eyes. You don’t need a friend who treats you this way, you want a wife that loves you.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

OP,

The other posters are right.

She is either already cheating or blatantly planning too.

Serve her with D papers ASAP.

Tell her you will not move downstairs and put your life on hold so she can commit adultery and betray your M...tell her you would prefer to simply D.

And if she denies and deflects just tell her directly that you are not an idiot.

There is simply no other logical explanation for what she is doing.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

You have to show her in no uncertain terms that she WILL lose the life she has with you if she goes through with this.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

You should head over to the forums at No More Mr. Nice Guy Online Support Group - Powered by vBulletin right away. Do it for you, not for your marriage. (The folks here have the marriage angle covered.)


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

Thor said:


> You should head over to the forums at No More Mr. Nice Guy Online Support Group - Powered by vBulletin right away. Do it for you, not for your marriage. (The folks here have the marriage angle covered.)


To add to this, the stronger you are now, the more likely your marriage might survive. If your wife has lost respect for you then taking an egalitarian nice guy approach, it will not change her but will eventually lead to your own exhaustion and desire for divorce. 

This is where I am. I thought I was living NMMNG in my own way, but she has continued to carry on with the OM over the internet. Even though I have not been easy on her through this, I don't wonder if filing for divorce the instant I caught her would have shocked her into realizing better what at stake. At this point, I am exhausted and just want out. Though in contrast, by your account my wife is considerably more narcissistic than yours.


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