# Need help with EA



## feelbetrayed (Apr 4, 2012)

Hi,

Never thought I'd end up here but here I am.

I'm 30 and my husband is 32 and we have three kids. 

My husband met a 18 year old through work. She has a lot of issues apparently and he is sort of a default counsellor for a lot of the younger lot at work. Anyways she left but they remained in contact via email. The email was an address I didn't know about. However the contact wasn't via actual emails but via msn. I stumbled across it on his phone (but no logs). I then got into the email via my computer as the password was easy to guess and there were no emails but I went onlnie on MSN with it. She msgd but I logged off after a minute or so. I then confronted him asking him whose email it is? He lied and said its not his. Anyways this continued on till I got him to admit it was his email and he had used it to chat to this girl. His reasoning was that she had a lot of issues and she hadn't opened up to anyone else about them before. I told him how wrong it was even if he felt it wasn't an affair. He apologised and agreed and promised not to do it again. It was a really big betrayal. I don't believe he was talkign to her sexually or about me etc but rather chatting to her in general and also about her problems. He said sometimes he spoke to her more and sometimes there would be weeks when they didn't speak. 

Moving on a month, his emails and phone were open so I would check them and nothing there. He did send her an email that day I found out saying that it wasn't appropriate and he wouldn't be talking to her anymore. She replied back saying no problem and thankyou for all your help. 

Anyways after a few weeks/month, I checked his phone via a sms type service from the phone company which lets you see the last 10 calls. I saw 2 calls whilst he was out and one call the night before again when he was out. None of these showed on his 'recent call' list though so that got me suspicious. I wrote the number down and then I went and asked him about it. Again he denied it and finally he admitted it was his calls. He initially said it was someone else (female though) who had problems. He refused to tell me who/what until I had a complete breakdown and he then told me. He said he had contacted her via phone (they wereonline before) about a week after the last time as he felt he needed to check on her. He said he'd spoken to her every few days or so again. The first time I tried to get over it but after seeing the impact on me that he did this a week after just made me feel beyond betrayed. I don't think he even realised he was having an EA - rather to him it was 'I'm not doing anything physical nor am I talking sexually/loving to her so it's not really that bad' though obviously he recognised it was wrong enough that he hid it. 

Now again he has promised to have no contact with her or anyone else without letting me know. He has sworn by God in this regard which I know is a big thing to do for him. He has apologised. He has offered to leave his phone at home when he goes out anywhere. He wouldn't have any physical contact with her as he has left his job (and she left before that) on a daily basis and he is in a job that he basically won't see anyone.

How do I trust him again? 

My other main issue is that I told him to cut it off. He said OK and was meant to call today. I asked him now if he had called and he said no he thought it would be better to just not call her as she doesn't call and just leave it like that. I don't know how I feel about that to be honest. He said if I wanted him to call he would but now I'm not sure if he should? 

When I analyse what he got out of it I think it was probably having a young girl look up to him and hang onto his advice etc. 

Thankyou for reading this.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

sorry you are here

I suggest you start by reading the newbie link in my signature

the first move should be to have him hand write a no contact letter- details in the thread I linked


you also need to get complete transparency- all passwords and access to his phone is a must

next step is to start verifying his actions in case he tries to get trickier, install keyloggers, phone spyware, etc

lastly he needs to start demonstrating true remorse, please look at the chart comparing rug sweeping vs remorse in the newbie link


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

That whole bit about him not thinking it was wrong the 2nd and 3rd time he contacted he is BS--especially since he hid it from you.

Just saying.

He needs to do the heavy lifting here. Tell him what you need from him to restore your trust and what the consequences will be.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> That whole bit about him not thinking it was wrong the 2nd and 3rd time he contacted he is BS--especially since he hid it from you.
> 
> Just saying.
> 
> He needs to do the heavy lifting here. Tell him what you need from him to restore your trust and what the consequences will be.


I agree w/Jelly, when they lie/hide things its b/c they know its something they shouldnt be doing. THen when you catch them they claim ignorance....my H did it too.(I thought I was just being personable) -yeah, bullsh*t. Do EVERYTHNG AR said.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Agree with all of the above. DO NOT believe that just because he told he'd break contact that he will. Breaking an emotional connection is hard, the fact that it was inappropriate does nothing to make it easier. Everything AR told you above are steps you really need to take - the no contact letter being the very first.

And just to reiterate - if he didn't know it was wrong why exactly was he - with forethought and deliberate intention - concealing it from you???


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## Ingalls (Mar 7, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> Agree with all of the above. DO NOT believe that just because he told he'd break contact that he will. Breaking an emotional connection is hard, the fact that it was inappropriate does nothing to make it easier. Everything AR told you above are steps you really need to take - the no contact letter being the very first.
> 
> And just to reiterate - if he didn't know it was wrong why exactly was he - with forethought and deliberate intention - concealing it from you???


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> And just to reiterate - if he didn't know it was wrong why exactly was he - with forethought and deliberate intention - concealing it from you???


Precisely.

There's only one reason people hide things.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Sorry this is long. My husband had an EA with a younger woman who he mentored so I felt compelled to de-lurk and share my thoughts.

Read, read, read about infidelity, esp the links Almostrecovered provided and in other people’s signatures. Educate yourself. 

How can you trust him again? In the short term, the answer is, you can’t.
Don’t be sad you caught him again. Be glad. Seriously, be very glad.
As painful as it is, now you know his willingness to take this ‘underground.’ You know he doesn’t mind risking profoundly hurting you to communicate with her. DON’T show him anger at this knowledge; USE it to save your marriage.

Many BSs miss this chance. There’s a big blowup (or three) with apologies; but all that happens is that it teaches the WS to hide it better. The poor BS isn’t educated about affairs; they have no idea that they are addictions; they don’t know affairs follow a script so predictably that in hindsight it would make you scream. Or puke. 

Instead of destroying the relationship, the confrontation (illogically, I know) adds a spice of danger and secrecy that combined with the other hormonal (dopamine) rewards he’s getting from contacting her, can be powerfully intoxicating.
For him to have TWO or more chances to break it off and he’s resisting, this is a very bad sign. Don’t put too much stock into “it’s not sexual” etc. That is meaningless at this point, whether it’s a lie or not; he’s already addicted to interacting with her.

Read this article, particularly about the romantic type of affairs: you will see, this follows the pattern of damsel in distress, including the inappropriate age gap. He’s ‘rescuing’ her, a very addicting type of relationship because she ‘needs’ him. See that healthy marriages are JUST AS vulnerable if not MORE SO to this type of relationship.
Beyond Betrayal: Life After Infidelity | Psychology Today

I wish I’d understood the addiction side of these relationships. It puts everything into context.
You: how could he hurt me; how could he lie to me when he sees how this is so deeply upsetting
Him: I need my fix, and I need it now; sure, BS is mad, and I feel a little guilty, but she’s not going to leave me; in the balance, it’s worth it. I mean, AP NEEDS me! (barf)

Your WS is already in what’s called the ‘fog’ and it’s literally a hormonal infatuation they feel for the AP. Maybe he says it isn’t love; but that’s just semantics.
I’ve read it takes AT LEAST 6 weeks of NC to have some of that infatuation chemical bonding START to break. Read up about the dopamine reward cycle he’s getting from interacting with her and you’ll see it’s literally a physical change in his brain.

Edited:***sorry, for some reason I kept missing the info about him leaving his job. This would appear to be a good thing, as he is no longer exposed to mentoring young people and wouldn't need to interact with her; on the other hand, that conflict of interest is gone (i.e., the very part that made the relationship so inappropriate, whether or not he was married).

Also: when do you think he’s going to break this off on his own? Now you know: not until he’s damn well ready. YOU can’t make him do this. Other powerful outside influences / motivators will likely have to come to bear. Think: who in his life does he respect? Who cares about him and wouldn’t want him to throw his marriage, kids, and possibly job down the tubes? You will need to prepare to engage those people to help you. (You can also research whether she has such people in her life, like loving parents / relatives she respects; but my guess is, likely not.)

Be very sure not to reveal to him how you know about his contact with her from now on, if you can. You will need to gather info to share with people he respects outside the marriage; if you don’t have evidence, they may support him and believe that you’re just paranoid. You’re NOT gathering info. to prove anything to HIM about how inappropriate this contact is. You already know that!!! So don’t bother tipping your hand any more.

Last: RUN and find the book Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

I'm sorry to write more, but obviously your post touched a nerve in me...and I apologize if I'm projecting too much of *my* past situation onto *you.* 

Other thoughts I had (as I drove to my $$ IC nearly 7 wks post-DD #2):

if you read the description of the romantic affair in the article I linked (i.e., damsel in distress EA), you will see that people often enter into them to stave off depression, much like an alcoholic takes to drink. (That is why the addiction analogy is so apt.)

If he has truly cut off all contact AND switched jobs, he is likely to be depressed now, if he wasn't already leading into the EA. This is what makes him so vulnerable even during NC. Either he could be tempted to re-contact the AP, or, in his weakness he could enter into an EA with someone else.

Do you see signs of depression in your husband? A visit to the dr. and some antidepressants can go a long way toward strengthening a resolution of TRUE NC.


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## me2pointoh (Jan 31, 2012)

Iheartlife, what you describe is so relevant to my situation, although the woman in my case is similar to me in age. There was no sexual talk or "technically" romantic stuff, and he was pretty incredulous that I would call it infidelity. I can also see that there was some damsel-in-distress mentality even though there was no particular situation he was saving her from. He was also depressed coming out of the fog. He has come a long way, even saying the other day that I didn't have to clarify pa vs. ea when reading him something, which really told me a lot about how he sees things. But in the beginning he did hide things also and it will be a very long time before I can trust him again.

feelbetrayed, I am so sorry you are here. I agree that you are lucky to have caught it AND be able to glean from the vast knowledge here on TAM at this early stage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Welcome out of the shadows iheartlife. Your post was excellent. A very helpful contribution. You should make it a habit.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

I agree Pit - excellent post iheartlife!!


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Welcome out of the shadows iheartlife. Your post was excellent. A very helpful contribution. You should make it a habit.





sigma1299 said:


> I agree Pit - excellent post iheartlife!!


Thank you very much. High compliments indeed considering I stole some of your best lines  I'm sure all the regulars around here feel sometimes like they're just typing into a void, but no, people are actually reading all you have to say very carefully, so thank you not just to the 2 of you but also the other TAM vets for educating everyone :smthumbup:

As for making posting a habit: I am at a stage where I need to obsess about the past a little less and look more to the future; although I just found this forum a few weeks ago, I've been living much of what you talk about (i.e., unwitting 180) for years now. I may get up the nerve to post my story, more as a lesson in what NOT to do to end an affair even though (knock on wood) we are finally in a good place with R.




me2pointoh said:


> Iheartlife, what you describe is so relevant to my situation, although the woman in my case is similar to me in age. There was no sexual talk or "technically" romantic stuff, and he was pretty incredulous that I would call it infidelity. I can also see that there was some damsel-in-distress mentality even though there was no particular situation he was saving her from. He was also depressed coming out of the fog. He has come a long way, even saying the other day that I didn't have to clarify pa vs. ea when reading him something, which really told me a lot about how he sees things. But in the beginning he did hide things also and it will be a very long time before I can trust him again._Posted via Mobile Device_


I think we can all agree that the older-man-rescuing-the-much-younger-woman-affair is a stereotype and NOT a prototype. Age and gender aren't the central factors; the issue is, how does the WS PERCEIVE the AP--as weaker, needy, etc. and therefore worthy of 'rescue.' I am sorry you are here, too.


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## me2pointoh (Jan 31, 2012)

Feelbetrayed, did you decide to have him call? I think I would go with a nc letter if you have her address.

Thanks iheartlife. Yeah, she's a single mom who has had a hard life. In the beginning, he did not like me judging her motives!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## feelbetrayed (Apr 4, 2012)

Hi everyone,

Thankyou for your feedback everyone especially iheartlife. 

I did some reading and it was very helpful.

I spoke to my husband today and I also sent him some stuff I came across to read. 

We had a good talk and he is going to call her as well. He offered to do it in front of me if that helps. 

To be honest, I don't blame her (the girl) that much because if I was someone that young with issues and an older well liked guy helped me out I wouldn't think about it. And I think before it gets into the romantic talk / love / physical side it is a lot easier to justify it even with all the hiding and secrecy. Plus I think a lot of the secrecy is obviously on his behalf not hers. 

Maybe I am niave but I don't think they had gotten into an actual romance type stage yet. 

He did get his phone records for me from the phone company so I can see how much they had talked exactly. It was basically what he had said and even then seeing the physical proof of it was pretty devestating. 

we spoke about the 2nd time after the first time and he finally acknowledged that what he did was cheating. He just said calling himself a cheat wasn't something nice to do and he justified his behaviour the 2nd time as it was unresolved and he just went from there that it wasn't such a big deal because it wasn't physical or him saying words of love to her. He said he really didn't think of it as dumb as it might sound. 

He has offered to do whatever I want to help me now that he has finally acknowledged it as wrong. He offered to not go anywhere without me (he doesn't go out much anyways), to leave his phone behind if he did go anywhere, i have all his passwords and I know how to keylog etc. I sent him an article that pretty much said a lot of what I wanted to explain and what I needed from him at this point and he did some of those things today which go against his normal nature - he is very much a doesn't want to talk about feelings or talk about the past type person. 

anyways I know it is going to take a long road for me but I really hope that we can move forward. I hope regardless of what happens that I come out a stronger person for me and my kids. I'm always putting him and everyone else before me but today made me really realise that that's not good enough and what is important is me and what I need. At times I felt bad asking him things because I know he didn't want to answer them but I kept going because I am important and I deserve it. I am not the one who betrayed. I should not feel bad. 

Thankyou everyone. Having somewhere where I could ask advice and hear other thoughts really helped as I cannot talk about this stuff. I will try to update as time passes.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

feelbetrayed, another epistle from me...

FIRST: make SURE that phone call happens on a speaker phone and you standing RIGHT THERE. At best, you'll always wonder what was said and how he looked; at worst they could reestablish their bond. Make SURE he sticks w. a pre-written script APPROVED BY YOU--NO small talk. 

I'm glad you talked about it more thoroughly and that he actually acknowledged it as cheating. I hope you emphasized the sexual / I love you stuff is IRRELEVANT--forming a secret relationship with a person who could be a sexual partner and lying about it crosses the line to betrayal. You'll see often here about there being 'no secrets in a marriage and privacy is for the bathroom.'

It's possible that this relationship was just a lightning strike, but much more likely it's a SYMPTOM. It's more than likely depression and I urge you to discuss that with him. If he'd rather not take antidepressants (or is already on them) good hard exercise can do wonders. Has he had any other big life events like the death of a loved one, etc. happen recently? Sometimes depression just needs a "starter event" and the brain gets in a groove that it can't get out of for a long time.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I assume he liked the job that he had to some degree--was it a hard sacrifice for him to give up? It sounds like the first job was social, and the second one is not--and if he's an extrovert, that would be quite hard. A sacrifice he very much should have made, but I wonder if it leaves him more available to her or more vulnerable in general.

At this point I would also look into a book like the 5 Love Languages and/or His Needs Her Needs and Love Busters. Both authors have websites with a ton of free material including questionnaires. I strongly recommend you and your husband fill these out. You may be surprised what he sees as hurting his love for you and what he may enjoy as an expression of love.

For ex: my husband's love languages are acts of service and words of affirmation. If I had known that, I would have been making a decent dinner nearly every night etc etc etc. NOT as a chore or a duty, but as an act of love that I now see is thoroughly appreciated by him, not pearls before a swine.

Another thing is sex--the vast majority of men see sex as an act of love toward their wife. On a deeper level they are getting doses of bonding hormones for YOU that helps strengthen them against outside alternatives. That isn't to say that a marriage with a healthy sex life is invulnerable to affairs (if only... ) but be an enthusiastic partner to him and allow him to show / strengthen his love for you.

The last thing is, how much uninterrupted private time do the two of you spend each week with 3 kids in the house? Some experts recommend as much as 15 to 20 HOURS of quality time as a couple which can be so hard to achieve--where do you fall on this scale? Even doing something like taking a walk while the kids ride their bikes (and they get far ahead of you so you are alone for long periods) counts. Pay for a babysitter, it's cheaper than MC.

Best wishes with everything


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## feelbetrayed (Apr 4, 2012)

Thankyou iheartlife. Your input has been invaluable.

He definitely understands (or at least he says he does) the fact that physical and i love you stuff is irrelevant. That it's the lying and hiding (which obviously means on one level he fully understood it was wrong) and secrecy etc even if all he talked about was the weather and the latest book they read. I told him how he would feel if what he did was something I did? And would he stay? And he said no. But he said in his head he justified it that it wasn't that bad because it didn't involve the i love yous or physical aspects but that he kept telling himself that he is just 'helping' this girl. 

He called her before in front of me and told her he wouldn't have any more contact with her as it was inappropriate and wrong especially as he had hidden it from his wife. She apologised if she had created a wrong situation but he told her it was his responsibility. She basically thanked him for listening to her and helping her out and wished him all the best. She basically said that he had been like an older brother figure she could confide in and she was sorry for any problems she had caused. To be honest, I feel sorry for her because she is young and she has a lot of issues. I told him that in his position in our community (outside of work) he will have to deal with people and they may want advice and I said I don't have a problem with you advising someone or helping them as long as it is done openly and honestly. 

I don't think he is depressed - I think he started off as many do with good intention to help someone vulnerable. But obviously it went off track and it got easily justified with that its not really 'that' bad because its not physical or lovey dovey. He felt like he was abandoning her by just cutting it off then but now he sees that even if it is hard for her his wife is more important and his marriage and she can't be his responsibility. 

To be honest, I think we had disconnected in some regard to each other and sort of taken each other for granted so I can see why helping someone younger who looked up to him was so appealing to him. There is a lot about myself I want to work on but I am currently about to give birth so physically am restricted. I think pregnancy / bfeeding the past 5 years has really killed a lot of intimacy between us that I want to work on regaining. I am lucky that I have family who are happy to look after my kids if needed but with a new baby now as you can imagine it is going to be hard as the older kids can go elsewhere but a new baby can't. I think because of my focus on the kids etc I had really neglected myself and my marriage (I am not at all justifying anything he has done because there is no excuse for lying and betraying). Physically I put on a lot of weight, am very unfit now, kids take up all my time etc. My phsyical appearance has really taken a battering in the past few years and it was something I really wanted to work on after I give birth for myself because I feel awful about myself. I have not much self esteem at all. I'd just decided to put myself first and put the kids in daycare so I get some 'me' time. 

He just got offered a different job today that is more social so he'll probably take that as it utilises his skills more. But there are no young people with life issues as his last job had a lot of in it so its mainly people his age or older. The girl was not at his last job for the past few months - the contact has been online and on the phone. So he wasn't physically seeing her at his work or anything and it wasn't the reason he left it.

I do think he is a good person in the end. And I do want to make my marriage work. So I will follow the advice and keep vigilant and work on trust. I hope that he will help me in that regard and I think sending him the info that I sent him opened up his eyes more too. I hope he doesn't prove me wrong in trying again.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

let me hijack just a sec here, sorry FB


iheartlife- you joined 2 days ago and you already have 6 solid posts, I was going to PM you to ask you this but your PM is off- please share your story in a separate thread I would be interested to hear it and understand your journey to how you got to where you are


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

I would say the very fact that he had the strength to change jobs and on his own to leave his phone with you etc. speaks volumes. I am glad to hear he is getting another job that maybe is more fulfilling.

I can totally relate to you, I 'only' have 2 kids but I made the sadly common mistake of putting them first. I also gained weight and let my appearance go. I also took my marriage way too much for granted. Just always remember that this is just your contribution to the condition of the marriage, his choice to have a secret friendship with her was 100% HIS and in no way your fault. Don't beat yourself up--onward and upward.

I was really pleased with the Love Languages (we are just now exploring His Needs / Her Needs and Love Busters). This is a way he can express his remorse and shore up his love for you, by finding out how you appreciate receiving love the most. And you can reciprocate--once you know he likes something like words of affirmation, it's easy enough to slip them into daily conversation and they cost nothing at all.

Re: depression--even if he wasn't depressed, he may be now--it is after all pretty humiliating to tell a cute 18 year old in front of your wife that you are a Responsible Father and Husband and Worker and what you did was Inappropriate. Just keep an eye on him.

All the best for your expanding family--glad to hear your family is around to help.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> let me hijack just a sec here, sorry FB
> 
> 
> iheartlife- you joined 2 days ago and you already have 6 solid posts, I was going to PM you to ask you this but your PM is off- please share your story in a separate thread I would be interested to hear it and understand your journey to how you got to where you are


Thank you AR, I hope you don't think it's silly if your post made me cry. I just can't thank TAM folks enough for helping me through some of the darkest moments the last few weeks. I will think about it.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

sheesh, why do I always make women cry?


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> sheesh, why do I always make women cry?


you say that as if it was always a bad thing! :rofl:


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## feelbetrayed (Apr 4, 2012)

Thanks Iheartlife. I will be keeping an eye. We are actually kidless at the moment as they have gone to the g/parents for a few days so it is kind of a good time for this (if there ever was a good time!) It's a bit hard to have a proper conversation with little kids running around wanting attention. 

I'm definitely not blaming myself for anything - just as I let go so did he. But I want to work on an improved marriage and I can see clearly how I keep putting myself last to everything and everyone since having kids has been detrimental. Even if things go haywire in teh future and our marriage doesn't work out - at least I'll have not let myself be last in line always and hopefully be a better stronger person. 

*big hugs to you* I hope your situation has a positive end.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

feelbetrayed said:


> Even if things go haywire in teh future and our marriage doesn't work out - at least I'll have not let myself be last in line always and hopefully be a better stronger person.
> 
> *big hugs to you* I hope your situation has a positive end.


I will tell you, the most powerful way to be attractive is to be the best YOU you know how to be. Some may think this means all superficially (clothes, hair, body, makeup) of course those things never hurt. But, working on yourself as a person, finding a deep love of life in general, appreciating the beauty of the everyday, having a hobby, having something interesting to contribute to conversations, these all add up to making you a more interesting person to others. The funny thing is, if you put these efforts in (being a better person in general) for someone else, if won't work. It's a facade. 

My husband fell out of love with the OW in some small part because I did these things (I had no idea he was continuing his EA). And that was when I weighed the most I ever weighed in my life (thankfully putting that behind me now). Again, if I'd set out to 'win him back' by changing into something I thought HE wanted this would not have helped at all.

Also: I imagine you're a great mother. Turn that same devotion toward your marriage as if it, too, was a child worthy of nurture and tender care. I'd always heard that the greatest gift you can give your kids is a loving marriage. I heard it, I just wasn't living it.

Thank you for the well wishes, we are in the best place we've been in in many years.

Take BIG advantage of the free time you're enjoying. I am surprised how much my husband EATS UP me suggesting ways for us to spend happy time alone even if it's just talking. I hope and assume that you are wise enough not to beat a dead horse over his relationship with the girl. That doesn't mean you're going to just forget about it; it's just that right now you need to find ways to shore up your love for each other and she has no place in that picture.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

iheartlife - I agree - again - that you're post are excellent and would really like to know more about your story like AR. 

I agree with all of your post above but have an asterisk on the last paragraph. Beating her H over the head with the affair is certainly counter productive to reconciliation. BUT - talking about it in a constructive manner can be very beneficial. My wife and I talked about my affair, my AP, my AP's husband, and every other faucet of the whole thing ad nauseum. It was really beneficial for both of us. It let us take each others temperature on where we were and how we were coping. Key point - we did it constructively. That doesn't mean there weren't conversations that hurt one or both of us, but neither of us flew off the handle, had emotional outburst, or attacked the other. If one of us was hurt we would express that, but always kept it constructive. My wife and I still talk about it at least a couple of times a month. I'd rather deal with it too much than not enough. IMO they'll know when they've run their course dealing with it all and it will naturally fade into the background of their marriage.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> I agree with all of your post above but have an asterisk on the last paragraph. Beating her H over the head with the affair is certainly counter productive to reconciliation. BUT - talking about it in a constructive manner can be very beneficial.


I totally hear you on the constructive conversations. I think it is very important to explore how and why it happened because to do otherwise is (to use another thing I learned on TAM) rugsweeping and just begging for a repeat that would likely be even worse.


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## feelbetrayed (Apr 4, 2012)

The first time I think we did rugsweep it - he said sorry and we moved on pretty much. There was no discussion about it etc. This time has been different so far - we have talked about it - sure the first day or so was pretty much me having a heart attack about it all but we've been trying to talk about it now when I need to (he is not a big talker so he does not bring it up nor would he want to bring it up anyways) but I really feel that he has tried to adjust his attitude to talk / do things to make me feel better when before it was more about 'can't you just let it go? and 'why do we need to talk about this again? I said I won't do it again'. We're in very early days but honestly even that acknowledgement of his wrongdoing and his adjustment i his attitude to how he replied to me when I wanted to talk or ask questions has helped me so much. I think his reading the article I sent him helped give him some ideas on what to do for me when before it was like 'well I can't do anything to change what happened - I'll just be good from now on' and that was unhelpful to me. He isn't one that likes to discuss emotions etc. 

My decision to work on myself is really about myself and not him. It was something I've thought about for a while now because I have not been happy with myself. My husband has always been supportive of me doing things but the kids have really taken it out of me as I've had them all very close in age. It's just been a classic case of mum putting herself last in everything - physically, emotioanly and even in my friendships etc. Physicaly how I feel and look really weighs on me because I was never like this before. As a person I think I'm pretty interesting  but I would like to get out and do something outside of the house soon as mentally I need some stimulation that doesn't involve kids. I am starting a university course soon so that will probably help. 

I am not planning to beat him up over it. It is early days so it will come up especially when I have bad moments I know but I'm really more concentrating on myself and him and how to build up our trust and marriage again. 

I'm really glad you posted here as it gives me hope. Thankyou from the bottom of my heart.


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## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

iheart, I understand your need to stop obsessing with the negatives in your life, but realize that the perspective of a survivor offers hope to those who are facing this new and terrible reality in their lives. Welcome.


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## hisfac (Feb 10, 2012)

feelbetrayed said:


> My husband met a 18 year old through work. She has a lot of issues apparently and he is sort of a default counsellor for a lot of the younger lot at work





iheartlife said:


> My husband had an EA with a younger woman who he mentored so I felt compelled to de-lurk and share my thoughts.


Where does one find these counseling and mentoring jobs?

I'm asking for a friend.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

feelbetrayed said:


> I'm really glad you posted here as it gives me hope. Thankyou from the bottom of my heart.


Just remember what I mentioned about the addiction. He needs to be separated from her for quite some time for the chemical bond to loosen. Recall, his brain has physically changed. That means it is a type of habit that he must actively work to control. While he has free will and it is a choice, there is an element of the irrational to this. 

Don't just rely on how innocent the girl seems on the phone. Not to make you paranoid, but there are all kinds of tales he can spin to her even now. My WS told the AP he was in a loveless marriage that was essentially a sham. I think she still thinks HE is the one who needs rescuing 

And, it goes without saying, if he is currently vulnerable to another EA, next time he would likely pick someone who was a more viable choice than a mere child 12 years his junior.

The difference from where you and I stand is that my WS went through the whole arc of an affair: that is, he fell instensely in "love" and then on his own eventually saw what a fantasy it was. But he DIDN'T give her up on his own. I had to go through DD#2 for that--years later and just 7 short weeks ago.

I never had the chance (out of ignorance) to have to struggle with it when he was in the throes of the affair high. My WS did most of what your WS has done post DD#1 but was back with the AP within weeks unbeknownst to me. I guess I'm just begging you to learn from my mistakes. I trusted way too early, way too soon.

To circle back to your original post: do I trust him? I trust more each day. But he was very, very good at lying. I read a good post in another thread just now: if he wants to cheat he can. If he does, he'll eventually get caught. And sadly that is the peace I have to make with it, love is a decision, a day-by-day one at that. 

But I am a strong person now. And if it comes to it, I will leave his cheating a** in the dust and not look back. He got 2 chances--there will NEVER be a third. And he knows it.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

3 for 3 i heartlife. You are so very right about the addiction. I was kind of like your H in that I knew the affair was all fantasy and BS and wanted out before my wife found out. All that didn't stop me from breaking no contact though. It's very difficult to do.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> 3 for 3 i heartlife. You are so very right about the addiction. I was kind of like your H in that I knew the affair was all fantasy and BS and wanted out before my wife found out. All that didn't stop me from breaking no contact though. It's very difficult to do.


youre scaring me Sigma....


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## Ingalls (Mar 7, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> Just remember what I mentioned about the addiction. He needs to be separated from her for quite some time for the chemical bond to loosen. Recall, his brain has physically changed. That means it is a type of habit that he must actively work to control. While he has free will and it is a choice, there is an element of the irrational to this.
> 
> Don't just rely on how innocent the girl seems on the phone. Not to make you paranoid, but there are all kinds of tales he can spin to her even now. My WS told the AP he was in a loveless marriage that was essentially a sham. I think she still thinks HE is the one who needs rescuing
> 
> ...


Iheart, I might have missed it, but how long ago since DDay or maybe better when you started Real R?? Sorry if you said it already. I admire your strength and on the outside I am too and on the inside I'm battling with am I really or just rug sweeping like my entire life?

*I don't mean to threadjack either...I think the advice you've given to feelbetrayed is awesome


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

canttrustu said:


> youre scaring me Sigma....


I don't want to threadjack - but why? Because breaking off an EA and maintaining no contact is so hard?? Better to know the demon for what it really is than to get surprised by it. This is definitely a time where what you don't know can hurt you.


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## hisfac (Feb 10, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> I don't want to threadjack - but why? Because breaking off an EA and maintaining no contact is so hard?? Better to know the demon for what it really is than to get surprised by it. This is definitely a time where what you don't know can hurt you.


Why not send a pm if you don't want to jack the thread?


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Ingalls said:


> Iheart, I might have missed it, but how long ago since DDay or maybe better when you started Real R?? Sorry if you said it already. I admire your strength and on the outside I am too and on the inside I'm battling with am I really or just rug sweeping like my entire life?


Hmmm. DD#1 took place about 3 years ago. So we had 3 years of false R. Yep, you read that right. Now, the thing about terminology...during false R, he fell out of love with the AP and started to bond again with me. So in that sense, some of the R started before the affair ended.

DD#2 took place 7 weeks ago. I would say some R started then of course.

Then there was a mini DD #3 about 2 weeks later, so maybe 5 weeks ago (?) when I discovered some additional information that I didn't have and that mattered a lot to me (not to him). The reason "real R" started at that point is that he felt the weight of lying come off his shoulders as he had told the full truth. He stopped being irritable about discussing the affair. It is not his favorite topic, but he is coming to terms with my need to understand it all and that I can't move on so quickly.

river rat: I hope neither you nor anyone else takes my post about not wanting to dwell on the negative to say that we shouldn't spend time on the forum as need be. Internet forums can be great support groups--there is nothing like knowing that someone else knows EXACTLY how you feel and that they've got your back.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

sigma1299 said:


> I don't want to threadjack - but why? Because breaking off an EA and maintaining no contact is so hard?? Better to know the demon for what it really is than to get surprised by it. This is definitely a time where what you don't know can hurt you.


Ive never been more aware of anything in my life


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

oh another thing Ingalls, on the strength. I wish we could bottle it up and give it away.

At some point in your life, you have to love yourself and if you believe in God, trust that God's love is sufficient. Whether anyone else loves you or not, that is immaterial. They could all fall off the face of the earth, get swept away in a disaster, whatever, you are still left with just you at the end of the day.

If you truly feel this way, you don't WANT to be with someone who doesn't love you. You don't have time for someone who is selfish, hurtful, abusive...you can care about them as people, but you still love yourself enough to protect yourself from the harm they inflict on you.

You basically have to stop caring, on some level, whether they are going to reject you. I'm not saying it doesn't hurt like your heart is being cut out before your eyes. But their rejection is NOT about you and whether you're a good, loveable person. It's about THEM. If they cannot (objectively) be a reliable life partner, you are better off alone.

I was lucky enough to figure this out long, long before my WS's EA. But even all that "strength" wasn't enough to avoid a second DD. I put the fear of GOD in him after DD#1, I had lots of cards to play to get him to stay and work things out, but the addictive nature of his infatuation snapped that like a stick.

The strength helps you do the 180 (and similar methods), no doubt about it. But the 180 can give you strength if that is what you lack.


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## feelbetrayed (Apr 4, 2012)

I'm doing better today. I've brought up the topic a few times and he has answered me. He had a bit of a breakdown and cried yesterday which for a guy who does not show much emotion is extremely rare. He said he was disgusted with himself because he really didn't think about me and the impact on me when he did it (and that hurt me to hear) but he only thought about himself and that he enjoyed talking. We spoke about our marriage and also about divorce. I said to him that I know we have lots of stuff to work on - kids and being married for a 'while' have really pulled us apart. He says he never spoke romantically to her in any way and I do believe him at this point but he said he enjoyed speaking to her and it was nice giving advice etc and having someone look up to him. It was different to speak to someone else who is female. That obviously hurts me a lot. 

We are religious and respect in this area is very very important so I hope that helps him to move on and not go backwards. He is open to full transparency - if I want to put tracking devices on him etc he is fine with it. That is helping me and I actually feel closer to God because of what has happened. We do not believe in close friendships between males and females outside of marriage so even just talking romantic or not was not something we accept and is a big betrayal. He knows this because he would never accept it from me if I did it. 

Right now my life is consumed thinking about it but I keep talking to him which helps because unlike last time he doesn't blow me off or refuses to talk about it or that I should just move on. That change in attitude is so helpful to me. I hope he doesn't stop that because his personality isn't one where he likes this type of stuff. I guess no person likes to be reminded of their cheating or betrayal etc. 

Funnily enough, this has really made me look at myself as a person and improving myself and strengthening myself. I put a lot of stock in my worth from what I get from my husband (which honestly was lacking and my insecurities increase) but now I think if tomorrow God forbid anything happens I'll only be left with myself - why should my life be destroyed because of someone else? 

I am having a child in the next few weeks sometime and the stress of this has come at the worst time (not that there is ever a good time). I find it hard to even think about what I need to be doing / organising for my baby at the moment. 

Anyways it is going to be a hard road to regain trust in our marriage and I find it comforting to write here. Thankyou for reading


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

feelbetrayed said:


> I'm doing better today. I've brought up the topic a few times and he has answered me. He had a bit of a breakdown and cried yesterday which for a guy who does not show much emotion is extremely rare.


This is certainly could be a sign that the fog is breaking and he's showing remorse. BUT, I will tell you my husband who never cries bawled several times like a baby after breaking NC. Within weeks he was back with her. Even at the time I could see he was not really crying out of remorse, but mostly out of guilt and loss of the person he thought was the love of his life. They are still so vulnerable at this stage, that's all I can say about what he's doing.



feelbetrayed said:


> He said he was disgusted with himself because he really didn't think about me and the impact on me when he did it (and that hurt me to hear) but he only thought about himself


I know you don't need more confirmation, but this is precisely what you see over and over here on TAM. The part that takes this behavior into the wrong of infidelity is the selfishness of it.



feelbetrayed said:


> and that he enjoyed talking. **** He says he never spoke romantically to her in any way and I do believe him at this point but he said he enjoyed speaking to her and it was nice giving advice etc and having someone look up to him. It was different to speak to someone else who is female. That obviously hurts me a lot.


He enjoyed talking to her, yes, but FAR more importantly, he enjoyed being the knowledgeable, wise one in the relationship. 

In my own relationship, this is what I trampled on. I did not express gratitude for my husband's contributions (he was working full time in a stressful job so I could stay home and raise our kids). Instead, I was full of anger that he wasn't home on time and gave short shrift to the stress and exhaustion he was experiencing because I felt he was never helping me enough. Instead of objectively seeing we were both in a tough bind, I was piling the load on his back until it had to break, and finding a sympathetic woman who just listened and never criticized did the trick. I realize now I also needed to show more than gratitude--I needed to give actual admiration to him for the things he does.

But I also didn't look up to him. We met when we were young and he was slightly younger than me. From the first there was a maternal element that turned to disgust over his little ways of being irresponsible. Now I see this was a very wrong path to take on my part. He needs someone to look up to him. (This presents a dilemma for me: I am REPULSED by his SPINELESS weakness in the EA--but he is otherwise a very good person who deserves my respsect.)



feelbetrayed said:


> We spoke about our marriage and also about divorce. I said to him that I know we have lots of stuff to work on - kids and being married for a 'while' have really pulled us apart.


If you look at the 5 Love Languages website, they have a super quick questionnaire that he can do in minutes (and there's one for you). I will be shocked if words of affirmation aren't one of his love languages after what you've said. Then read up. I discovered that for those who crave words of affirmation, excessively hurtful words are even more hurtful than they are to other people.

The Marriage Builders websites also has the His Needs / Her Needs and Love Busters questionnaires, but they are longer and you may not have time for them right now.




feelbetrayed said:


> Right now my life is consumed thinking about it but I keep talking to him which helps because unlike last time he doesn't blow me off or refuses to talk about it or that I should just move on. That change in attitude is so helpful to me. I hope he doesn't stop that because his personality isn't one where he likes this type of stuff. I guess no person likes to be reminded of their cheating or betrayal etc.


No, and that is why 'rugsweeping' is so tempting, neither one of you enjoys it and it's easier (at first) to brush past the problem rather than tackle it head on.



feelbetrayed said:


> Funnily enough, this has really made me look at myself as a person and improving myself and strengthening myself. I put a lot of stock in my worth from what I get from my husband (which honestly was lacking and my insecurities increase) but now I think if tomorrow God forbid anything happens I'll only be left with myself - why should my life be destroyed because of someone else?


This is always a healthy perspective no matter how terrific your marriage is. There are a lot of things that can snatch our loved one from us, it is a fact of life.



feelbetrayed said:


> I am having a child in the next few weeks sometime and the stress of this has come at the worst time (not that there is ever a good time). I find it hard to even think about what I need to be doing / organising for my baby at the moment.


As a mom of 3, you have to believe that this is a little overrated, right? The doing / oranizing you need to work on is right in front of you--working on your marriage--and you are doing it.

I found doing small tender things for my WS to help me. It was a way to show love that he noticed and that made me feel my love for him as I did it. My husband always buys coffee at shops so I learned to make it at home just as he likes it. It's not about getting him to praise me or show gratitude--it is a pure expression of love at a time I don't always feel very loving.


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