# Looks like its over



## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Well it all started two years ago 23 Dec 2011. I came back from golf and she told me that she no longer loved me and I was not coming on our holiday ( we always go to Cobram with her parents). I was ****ing floored as this was just out of the blue. Well she moved back to her parents with the kids and after about 6 weeks and 10k in lawyers cost she caled me the weekend do Australia Day and said she felt guilty about Aidan having to change schools and came back...just like that! She had suffered 2 bouts of depression the first being post natal after Joel and then she had a second bout. She was on the anti dep for 6 months before deciding she didn't want to be on them anymore so stopped and all this is happened about 6 months later. Her excuse was that I didn't do enough around the house so I said I would change. Since then I do most of the washing, hanging up clothes, taking them down, ironing and some cleaning as well as working 6 days a week. I've always been there for my kids, I take them to school every day and put them to bed every night.
This time around she found some emails and SMS to a girl I work with and I admit I was in the wrong BUT at no time did I ever have an affair and the emails were more just fun emails with nothing proactive except maybe an x at the end. So this is what started it this time around. She says she doesn't love me and it hasn't changed from 2 years ago when it first started..... I think she still has depression but could never bring it up as I would be shot down with her denials. She now wants to sell our house and move closer to her parents. What I don't get is that I know I'm not perfect but I've never been abusive physically or verbally, I've always told her how beautiful she is to me, I've always taken care of my kids and my family has always been the most important thing in my life. I figure, if there is a problem, you address it and try and work at the marriage get Counselling etc not just give up on it...especially when there are two beautiful kids involved.


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## IronWine29 (Dec 31, 2013)

It sounds like you are in a really tough spot KB. Have you read anything about codependency, or tried individual counseling for yourself? It may give you a different perspective on how to handle your wife's depression.


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## oviid (Sep 27, 2013)

I can relate, been down that road. Each time my stbx started to act "different" I knew something was up. The unhappiness was coming to a head and I saw where it was going. We went to counseling twice, I did serious self reflection and changed like you did..laundry, cooking all that but nothing changed. None of it would make her happy or want to stay in this marriage. 

Now I realize it's not always about what you do or don't do. There are times when it's not about you it's about them. Then you understand there's nothing you can say or do to change it. 

I wish for the best for you and your kids.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

oviid said:


> I can relate, been down that road. Each time my stbx started to act "different" I knew something was up. The unhappiness was coming to a head and I saw where it was going. We went to counseling twice, I did serious self reflection and changed like you did..laundry, cooking all that but nothing changed. None of it would make her happy or want to stay in this marriage.
> 
> Now I realize it's not always about what you do or don't do. There are times when it's not about you it's about them. Then you understand there's nothing you can say or do to change it.
> 
> I wish for the best for you and your kids.


Kevin,

It's impossible to nice your woman out of this.


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## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

Without knowing anything more, this is what happened:

She went back to Dad's, and he made it clear he was p*ssed off at her dragging the kids to their oasis of peace, and unilaterally excluding you from the holiday.

After being subjected to daily digs about it, she realised her 'options' were minus one, and came back after an argument.

Nothing to do with the kids changing school, but everyone needs some excuse to still look good when they're in a bind.

No woman really cares if you do enough around the house, so long as they aren't overwhelmed. This was another made-up bollox excuse to keep you on your toes.

I believe she's just buying time till she can figure out how to leave herself in a strong financial position and get her own place where she can 'explore' being single again. 

I'm not usually this harsh, but I don't buy the depression excuse, and all the other excuses - this is sly behaviour from someone who is supposed to be your friend. Ergo, I don't think she is your friend now...

S.


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## ICLH (Dec 26, 2013)

The "you don't do enough around the house" excuse is BS, too.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

ICLH said:


> The "you don't do enough around the house" excuse is BS, too.


No man ever was more attractive to his spouse by demonstrating how well he pushed a vacuum.


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

She says she doesn't love me yet the night before we broke up we had the most intense sex. I sent her flowers to her work for Valentines Day I got an SMS saying thanks for the flowers then an hour later another that said she felt uncomfortable receiving them. If she is having an affair will it last.


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## Honorbound (Nov 19, 2013)

Kevinb said:


> She says she doesn't love me yet the night before we broke up we had the most intense sex. I sent her flowers to her work for Valentines Day I got an SMS saying thanks for the flowers then an hour later another that said she felt uncomfortable receiving them. If she is having an affair will it last.


No. Less than 3% of affair partners stay together... but by then, the damage will be done. So, does it matter?

Don't listen to anything she 'says' (like about the housework), just watch what she does. Protect yourself and start looking at life without her. As Conrad said, you cannot 'nice' her back. It is impossible.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Kevinb said:


> She says she doesn't love me yet the night before we broke up we had the most intense sex. I sent her flowers to her work for Valentines Day I got an SMS saying thanks for the flowers then an hour later another that said she felt uncomfortable receiving them. If she is having an affair will it last.


Find out who he is and crush the affair.

Get a voice-activated recorder and put it under the seat of her car.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Get off the ride. Don't even bother wondering why. Dump her and go forward without looking back. Life's too short.


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Thanks for your feedback. She just seems SO angry all the time. She denies having an affair and I don't see why she would lie about it as she is leaving me but maybe she is having an EA. I may ask her about this later today. Should I adopt the 180? I still love this woman and adore my boys. It's going to break my heart selling our home as we put our heart and soul into it and every room has a memory. I know this is all my fault and realize the flirtatious SMS's were probably an EA. do women get over this? We've been together for nearly 11 years and neither of us has slept with anyone else. I'm 11 years older than her and maybe she thinks the grass is greener elsewhere.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Kevinb said:


> Thanks for your feedback. She just seems SO angry all the time. She denies having an affair and I don't see why she would lie about it as she is leaving me but maybe she is having an EA. I may ask her about this later today. Should I adopt the 180? I still love this woman and adore my boys. It's going to break my heart selling our home as we put our heart and soul into it and every room has a memory. I know this is all my fault and realize the flirtatious SMS's were probably an EA. do women get over this? We've been together for nearly 11 years and neither of us has slept with anyone else. I'm 11 years older than her and maybe she thinks the grass is greener elsewhere.


Do not talk to her about it at all, or you will drive her deeper underground.

Put the VAR under her car seat and wait 48 hours.

Do you have access to cell records, text history, chat logs, etc.? Facebook?

Get a keylogger for your computer.

You have to know what you're up against if you're going to fight for your marriage effectively.


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Thanks Conrad but it goes against my grain to go to those extremes and if she is its probably going to do me more damage than help.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Kevinb said:


> Thanks Conrad but it goes against my grain to go to those extremes and if she is its probably going to do me more damage than help.


Not sure I follow that logic, but good luck to you anyway.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

Kevinb said:


> Thanks Conrad but it goes against my grain to go to those extremes and if she is its probably going to do me more damage than help.


Ignorance is bliss, eh?

Is that why you came here?


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## IronWine29 (Dec 31, 2013)

Kevinb said:


> I know this is all my fault and realize the flirtatious SMS's were probably an EA.


It is not all your fault. Do you feel remorse for what you did? Do you want to reconcile?

You made a mistake. Make amends for it by sticking up for yourself and your kids.

If your wife is having an EA, she will deny it even when confronted unless you have proof. (She may try to deny it even after you have proof; my ex did).

If you don't want to sell your house, don't. What do _you_ want? Make sure she knows.


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

What I mean is that if she is having an affair, then she is having an affair...I don't need to hear the conversations or see the SMS's which will end up hurting me more.


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## IronWine29 (Dec 31, 2013)

What do you want?

If you want to reconcile, what you need to do is counter-intuitive. You need to project strength. Not weakness. Not neediness. Hold her accountable.

If you don't want verification, I understand. Assume the worst, and prepare yourself for it. Build your options for moving forward around that assumption.

Your wife needs to confront what your separation from her would mean. She didn't like it the first time.

This is really tough. You have a lot invested in the relationship because you pretty clearly care for your wife even though she has suffered from depression. That isn't easy. In addition, you are considering the impact on your kids. Be sure to make sure that your wife has thought this through. It doesn't sound like she has.

Be strong. Suggest MC. Don't compromise on what you feel is best for the children.


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Thank you Ironwine, she won't at any circumstance entertain the thought of MC. In her mind we are through and she does not love me anymore. She has offered a 50/50 split from the proceeds of the house which is I think fair as if it were to go to the courts I fear I would fare a lot worse.

Yes I feel extreme remorse for what I did and would love to reconcile but she just ices me out. As of today I have started detaching somewhat, 180 I think it's called, rather trying to convince her of my love for her and wanting her to reconsider.

I have seen a Clinical Psycologist on 2 occasions and as of 4 days ago have started taking 1omg anti depressant tablets ( which I don't think are working) but I'm still very sad.

But I will not let her take anymore satisfaction from my pain.

How long will her anger last?

I happen to be a Real Estate Agent and will be Auctioning the house across the road from mine next Saturday which will be hard as I will be looking directly at mine which will be the next one to be listed.


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## IronWine29 (Dec 31, 2013)

Better way to look at 180 is tough love: Show her what she can expect if you really are through. Don't be nice. That doesn't mean you don't care for her. What has your lawyer said about the 50/50 split? Can you find reasons to delay the sale?

Be patient. If she wants to ice you out, she may be afraid that you are going to leave her.

Antidepressants can take several weeks to work; don't worry that you don't feel immediate relief. Take another crack at it through talk therapy. This kind of sadness takes persistence. Stick with it.

Do you really think your pain has brought her satisfaction?

Her anger may not subside quickly. But you should not bear the brunt of her anger. Do not allow her to take it out on you verbally or emotionally.

She may very well thank your if you put your foot down and force her to think through the consequences of her actions. She came back after six weeks the first time because she felt guilty about moving the children. Any relocation will be a setback for them. Has she really considered the impact this will have on them? Spell it out for her in black and white. Maybe MC will appear more palatable to her then.

You also need to consider that this appears to be a pattern on her part.


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Indeed it does seem to be a pattern. The kids will suffer as they will be relocated 40kms away and have to change schools and they love our neighborhood and their school and our family unit. I shouldn't need to spell it out to her...she's not stupid and m sick of hearing her say I just don't love you anymore...so I'm going to stick to not engaging her.

On previous occasions when I tried talking to her...one time I looked into her eyes and said she looked sexy in the slip she had on while she was upstairs on the bed, I looked into her eyes when I said it and she started giggling...yes I think she gets some pleasure in seeing me hurt.

I don't want to get Lawyers involved as I will take the deal and most Family Law Solicitors are parasites that just end up fleecing both parties.

Right now I'm at the pool with my two boys, its 6:30pm here in Melbourne


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Kevinb said:


> Indeed it does seem to be a pattern. The kids will suffer as they will be relocated 40kms away and have to change schools and they love our neighborhood and their school and our family unit. I shouldn't need to spell it out to her...she's not stupid and m sick of hearing her say I just don't love you anymore...so I'm going to stick to not engaging her.
> 
> On previous occasions when I tried talking to her...one time I looked into her eyes and said she looked sexy in the slip she had on while she was upstairs on the bed, I looked into her eyes when I said it and she started giggling...yes I think she gets some pleasure in seeing me hurt.
> 
> ...


Following the cheater's script to a T


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## beyondrepair (Aug 17, 2013)

Kevin, I am fairly new here but I have been in your shoes recently, you can be certain that you won't get her back by doing the house chores and complimenting her, you are only enabling her behavior and driving her away.

As I see it, you have 2 choices:

- If you still want to try to save the marriage, investigate, get the VAR, go though e-mails, phone logs, etc. DO NOT confront her until you have solid proof. Then crush the affair by exposing it to her, and giver her the choice to be all in, if not file for divorce immediately.

- Get a lawyer, secure your assets, and file for divorce. Go absolutely no contact unless it pertains to divorce proceedings or the kids.


I can GUARANTEE any other choice will only prolong you agony.

Time to stop being nice.

Listen to Conrad and the other guys, they have seen it a million times.

Good luck.


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

Kevin, 
From what you write, it seems to be part of the standard WAS script. 

In more cases than not, there is usually another person involved.

People are recommending you get a VAR so you can hear it for yourself as a lot of straying spouses talk to their affair partners in their cars. I realize you don't want to hear what possibly may come out of that. You must also know that if your wife is having a side relationship, she most likely isn't going to tell you. I think the point is to find out if there is an affair going on and demand that it ends. There will not be a true reconciliation until any affair ends. You can "wipe the slate clean" or call it even or whatever, but that will amount to rugsweeping. 

My recommendation is to stop chasing this woman. Her actions are telling you that she's done. The more you chase, plead, beg, etc will increase your pathetic factor exponentially.

Your value will increase with your scarcity in her life. She needs to realize that you aren't a chump (stop being one, btw). You were okay before her, during her, and you will be okay after her. So far, you've made the same steps we have all made. You've done the "pick me" dance. You've sent the flowers, etc. 
Now, you're finally seeing that this is happening to you. Time to take the red pill, Neo. 

You're going to learn so much about yourself in the coming days and weeks. Listen to the men on this board. Read. 

As far as the 180, it gets misused a lot. In summary, it's a group of behaviors that you have to enact for yourself. It really has nothing to do with "winning" your spouse back. That's impossible to "win" someone. 

How about choosing yourself and focusing on getting yourself: 

1. emotionally stable (this is hard at first). 
2. detached from her daily drama - I recommend on focusing on co-parenting issues and joint financial issues only. STOP PURSUING THE RELATIONSHIP. She said she's not interested in fixing it. 
3. legally set. Remember, Kevin. This is happening to you. You don't have to inform her (and I wouldn't), but you need to seek legal counsel right away to determine a possible course of action. Do this soon.
4. physically set. Do something. Walk, run, lift, row, etc. Every day. I recommend lifting. It makes you strong and you'll look damn fine. Your wife wants other women to want you. Looking fine increases your value.
5. Well groomed. Dress as well as you can afford. Every day.
6. mentally set. I see you're starting meds. Ok. Make sure you're going to counseling if you need it. Allow yourself to feel what you feel. There is not a short cut around this. Avoid substances, overeating and drinking alcohol. These are distractors. 
7. Get a circle of trust with YOUR family (don't bother hers - blood is way thicker than water, Kevin as you'll see) and MALE friends. 

It starts today, Kevin.

HL


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

H.L thank you for your input as with the others it's most appreciated. In regards to the VAR I'm sorry I won't do this, the reason being IF she is having an affair I don't see the impact of confronting her with proof as she has already "ended" it with me. It, in my eyes would show my mistrust and invasion of her privacy and i cant see what effect would a demand make on her ending the affair?

I have stopped the pleading, begging, etc, at present I pretty much ignore her and act as if she isn't even there or just hang out with my boys. 

In regards to focussing on myself:

I don't think I'm too emotionally stable as I feel quite sad most of the time. I have detached from her daily dramas and have stopped pursuing her. I've dropped about 10kgs probably from a lack of appetite but I am trying to eat something each day and I do exercise by long brisk walks with our dog each day doing push ups and sit ups as well.

Once again, thank you all for your support, it gives me comfort to know that I am not the only one who has gone/going through this gut wrenching period and Conrad, thank you for the link, I will look at the book tonight.

Kev


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

Kevin, what have you done to address your EA with her?


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Well I don't know it actually was an EA. it was with a colleague I work with and she had no intention of having anything physical we had some fun SMS's and some jokes which I forwarded onto her by email. Some the SMS would end in x. My wife is very jealous and I think insecure so when she discovered it it hit her hard and hurt her. I told her there was no affair and the woman in question tried calling her but she wouldn't take the call. My wife said the conversations were inappropriate and should stop which I have assured her they have.

I take fully responsibility for this and I am so sorry it occurred and obviously if I had my time over.....


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

Did this all happen close to when one of the babies were born? If she was dealing with PPD when she found the texts, they could really have affected her deeply. It's a really vulnerable time. Also, how old is the youngest right now? Could she still be suffering from PPD?


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

You need to make some moves here or your going to get railroaded.
Time to investigate....when you get that speech, something is up
Get your head out of the Aussie beach sand.
Listen to what the posters are saying....trust me


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Well I ****ed up. I got home early this afternoon and tried to have a meaningful conversation with her. I asked her straight out if she was having an affair and she said she wasn't she said she hasn't been in love with me since our youngest Joel was born nearly 7 years ago, she said it was a build up of little things like she felt I didn't support her when she had PND and other things along the way.

She said that I'm trying to force her to stay and if I persist she will move out straight away, she said no, to seeing MC and that she just doesn't love me was afraid that if she stayed we would end up here again and that she would be older and doesn't want to waste the good years of her life (she's 40 and I'm 51)

I feel totally gutted as I love this woman, I love my family and don't want to start again at 51.


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## IronWine29 (Dec 31, 2013)

Check out the literature on borderline personality disorder and codependency.

As others have said, watch what she does, not what she says.

Be strong. I'm pulling for you.


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Thanks Mate, I will as I don't understand what codependency is


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

"Codependency, by definition, means making the relationship more important to you than you are to yourself," Tessina says. "It's kind of a weird phrase, and it doesn't sound like it means a one-sided relationship. But that's what it is. It means you're trying to make the relationship work with someone else who's not."

Yep, looks like I'm codependent


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## IronWine29 (Dec 31, 2013)

Self-knowledge is where it all starts.


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## AFPhoenix (Dec 24, 2013)

I'm sorry that you're in this situation Kevin. I'm not sure what advice to give you. But I know the harder you try to make her stay, as you beg, cry, and try to make her see all the good, that seems to drive them farther away. It's tough. If she doesn't want to do MC, don't let that stop you from IC. There's a booklet by Robert Glover called "No More Mr. Nice Guy". I suggest you read it. We're here for you brother....btw, I loved Sydney. Nelson's Blood was a great beer.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Kevinb said:


> "Codependency, by definition, means making the relationship more important to you than you are to yourself," Tessina says. "It's kind of a weird phrase, and it doesn't sound like it means a one-sided relationship. But that's what it is. It means you're trying to make the relationship work with someone else who's not."
> 
> Yep, looks like I'm codependent


What it boils down to is when she did things you weren't ok with, you sucked it up and allowed it, thinking you were preserving the relationship.

As this sort of trend repeats itself over and over, she loses respect for you and you lose respect for yourself.

It's a formula for getting steamrolled out of the relationship - and winding up very very angry.


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## Convict (Feb 16, 2014)

Kevin. Like u I am new here, and going through something very similar (my wife stopped loving me and wants a divorce, and it seems it will indeed happen in a few weeks).

All I can say is that its totally normal to have confused feelings and turbulent emotions. Nothing can change or prevent that. The fear of starting over is immense. The feeling that u have become unwanted is overwhelming. It is indeed agonizing, and u r probably having a trillion different and contradictory thoughts going through ur mind every second. 

It seems that there are many many of us who are in exactly the same boat. Getting on here on TAM made me feel better at times, even though the pain never goes away.

Going out with people who have no idea whats going on and who u didnt share this situation with might be a good idea to remove the pain for a few hours. I did that last night and it made for forget her and my collapsing M for a while.

The last thing I might add is the depression factor. It might be tempting to look at your wife as someone who needs ur help and deserves ur loyalty to the very final breath and attempt. But it seems the facts will remain and she will remain unchanged no matter what u do or how u act or how u look at her. 

A lot of people posting on ur thread also posted about my situation. All I can say is that take comfort from the support these great people are giving. U do have hard choices to make, but only u can make them. And u can only make them for urself. 

Whatever happens, I sincerely wish u the best of luck and the utmost inner peace to proceed.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

If you want to survive this in one piece, follow this list. If at this point you're still concerned about your cheating wife's privacy and happiness, then you're going to suffer. Suffer a lot.

Stop living in oblivion.

*Synthetic's 10 Commandments*:

1. Read this link - *Just Let Them Go*

2. Follow the following rules: *The 180 degree rules*

3. Read this short book in the next 24 hours: *No More Mr. Nice Guy
* 
4. Separate all finances and stop supporting her 'single' lifestyle

5. Book a counseling appointment ASAP

6. Doesn't matter how you do it, but *sweat the pain of anxiety out*. Treadmills are your best friend. Use them. This is very important: You need to physically feel spent before you hit bed every night. 

7. Think a lot, read a lot, and cry as needed - This particular link should be open in your browser at all times and read multiple times: *DO YOU LOVE TO BE NEEDED, OR NEED TO BE LOVED?*

8. Find your social worth by socializing with as many people as possible (females work better). Spend time with friends, but don't just settle for your circle of friends. This is the best time to make new ones and feel attractive/attracted. You're not looking for sex or a relationship. You're looking for natural human attraction between you and others.

9. Do whatever it takes to go on a trip that involves a long flight, preferably to a country where English or your first language is not spoken

10. Start living an 'overly' fun life without feeling any guilt. This is the hardest task ahead. It's important to wash the guilt out of yourself once you have realized where it originates from via all the reading and counseling you've done.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

Kevinb said:


> Well I ****ed up. I got home early this afternoon and tried to have a meaningful conversation with her. *I asked her straight out if she was having an affair and she said she wasn't she said she hasn't been in love with me since our youngest Joel was born nearly 7 years ago, she said it was a build up of little things like she felt I didn't support her when she had PND and other things along the way.*
> 
> She said that I'm trying to force her to stay and if I persist she will move out straight away, she said no, to seeing MC and that she just doesn't love me was afraid that if she stayed we would end up here again and that she would be older and doesn't want to waste the good years of her life (she's 40 and I'm 51)
> 
> I feel totally gutted as I love this woman, I love my family and don't want to start again at 51.


First, if she is having an affair, it is highly unlikely that she would tell you just because you asked her.

Second, cheaters tend to rewrite the marital history in order to feed the rationalization hamster in their mind. They need to justify their cheating. Hence the "I haven't loved you for years" garbage.

Is she cheating? Maybe. Maybe not. Regardless, she's done with you and your marriage.

Focus 100% on you now. Be the best Dad you can be. Act as if you are already divorced. Separate finances. Do NOT support her financially. She wants to be single? She can support herself.

Start working out. Get into the best shape of your life. The chemicals released during and after hard exercise will help your mood.

Read* Codependent No More*. Read other threads here. Stay here.

Remember who you were before she came into your life. You were OK then. You'll be OK later.

I think to a man, every guy who has walked the burning coals before you will attest that their life is better now than it was. You just have to get through this painful process now.

Hang in there.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

ThreeStrikes said:


> I think to a man, every guy who has walked the burning coals before you will attest that their life is better now than it was. You just have to get through this painful process now.
> 
> Hang in there.


This is absolutely true - whether she stays or not.


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

Synthetic has it right. He nailed it. 
You need to look after yourself. Do the 180 and live it. You can't control what she does says or thinks. You must be prepared to lose the marriage before you can even think of saving it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DumbDude (Jul 27, 2013)

Hey KB,

You should listen to the advice on this thread. Don't make the same mistakes that others have made...

I notice in an earlier post you were pretty negative on the family lawyer idea. Personally I feel you really need to see one. They wont necessarily fleece you of your marital property but will provide advice. You will understand whether 50/50 is a good split in *your *situation.

I would also only discuss the co-parenting arrangements with your wife. Discuss their welfare, how they are going to cope etc. Put things in writing. Showing that you have the kids best interest in mind is critical. Thats what the mediation process here in Aus cares about... that you have the kids best interest in mind.

Do you have somewhere you can take the kids overnight? Taking the kids overnight (with wifey's approval) puts you in a good place. If she is ever to suggest that you are not fit to take them you can show that she has previously allowed it to happen...

Learn, learn, learn and protect yourself. Don't count on all your years with your mrs to mean anything when it comes to splitting assets and determining visitation schedules. 

On the no more mr nice guy book - read it. It's a great book and has changed / is still changing my life. Visit the forums and vent there... there are good guys over there that give good advice.


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Thanks for your posts, links and support.

I went over to a Mate's last night and watched the footy had a few beers and I actually ate dinner. He's been through it although he the one who left. He just lives 2 blocks away and our kids go to the same school.

When I got home I went upstairs to our bedroom and said to her that if she wanted to move early she could do so ( she has been threatening me with that) . "So you've had a change of heart" she said and then said that she would not move until the house was sold.

Looks like she wants the money so she doesn't have to stay too long at her parents. I. Slept the night with my boys cuddled up to my 6 year old.

Now, to get through today.


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

It seems like she's checked out of the marriage-Have you?
What's her plan? you need to find this out.
You may want to brace yourself for that answer


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Thanks Ford, what do you mean?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Kevinb said:


> Thanks Ford, what do you mean?


He means investigate.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

See, this is exactly what I was talking about in the other thread. Kevinb admitted to having an EA, but all the men here rugswept that. But you're advising him, the cheater, to see if his wife is cheating. Because an EA is unforgivable if his wife does it, not worth mentioning if he does it.

Yeah, the advice totally doesn't vary by gender.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

northernlights said:


> See, this is exactly what I was talking about in the other thread. Kevinb admitted to having an EA, but all the men here rugswept that. But you're advising him, the cheater, to see if his wife is cheating. Because an EA is unforgivable if his wife does it, not worth mentioning if he does it.
> 
> Yeah, the advice totally doesn't vary by gender.


Does how he proceeds have anything to do with his EA?

If she were here, we'd tell her to investigate him.


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Conrad, thank you for your advice and support but as I mentioned previously, I do not want to spy on her. IF she is having an affair there is nothing I can do about it and I don't want to lower myself to the extremes that you mention.

I will be hurt either way and I would rather be hurt my way and feel I have had some integrity and followed my standards.

NL, I value your contribution and thank you as I think it's important to have a woman's perspective. Please note I never swept it under the rug


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

I did not read his other thread. If he had an EA than he's just as guilty as the wife. Gender has nothing to with it for me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Kevin,
Conrad is one of the top posters here. He doesn't tell you find out whether your wife is an affair so that you will lower yourself. You need to know so that you respond appropriately to the challenge you face. If there is a POSOM in the picture, you need get him out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

Exactly. The other man needs to be outed if he exists. 
You need to know how to react and plan. She wants out all of the sudden. Something is up big time. 
Wake up my friend.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Thank you all. I don't quite understand the abbreviations in these posts...posom? IF she had another man how would you suggest I "out" him?


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

Piece of sh!t other man. PosOM.

He's a piece of sh!t for effing a married woman.

You out him by exposing the affair. If he is married, you contact his wife. In person, if possible.

Exposing the affair usually ends it.

If you aren't prepared to investigate, don't be surprised by the outcome of your situation. 

There will come a day when you decide to stop being a doormat, stop living in fear... when the pain of living this way gets bad enough. When will you reach that point? Only you know. This is your journey.


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

It means Piece of SH$T other Man
First you need to find if there is another man. Then out him by telling his wife/GF. Put it on face book, twitter or what you have.


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Sounds like revenge. I dont think Im a door mat. it takes two tango whats the point in wrecking this guys life (IF THERE IS AN AFFAIR TAKING PLACE IN THE FIRST PLACE) and if he is married he will eventually come unstuck.

My priority is wanting my wife back because she wants to be back. How do affairs go....do they last??? Is the grass greener on the other side??? I dont know. 

Thank you for your posts.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Read this thread.

Ignorance is not bliss, Kevin. Your wife will not respect you if she is having an affair and you don't detect it. For a cheater it is a sign that you don't understand the needs of her soul. If she is an adultress and you expose, she will reconsider what she is doing. As long as the affair (if there is one) is in the dark, she can continue.

Remember part of the fun of affair sex is that it is forbidden.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Kevinb said:


> Sounds like revenge. I dont think Im a door mat. it takes two tango whats the point in wrecking this guys life (IF THERE IS AN AFFAIR TAKING PLACE IN THE FIRST PLACE) and if he is married he will eventually come unstuck.
> 
> My priority is wanting my wife back because she wants to be back. How do affairs go....do they last??? Is the grass greener on the other side??? I dont know.
> 
> Thank you for your posts.


They wither in daylight.


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

Don't enable it. If there is one you must find 
There must be a reason to want out all of a sudden.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

> My priority is wanting my wife back because she wants to be back.


As far as priorities go, you sure need a good smacking.

You're a codependent addict and your wife will not come back because "she wants to be back". That's all I'm going to say at this point. 

The shortest and simplest advice I can give you is: Don't think of your situation as "unique" or "different". It's really not. You will end up desperately trying to break free from codependency just like every single other left-behind spouse out there.

If there was an "I told you so" contest in this forum, you'd be a sure bet to increase my score in the future. But we're not into that "I told you so" game here. Just trying to tell you what to expect in the future.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Your wife might come back if she regained her attraction for you.

But, women are rarely attracted to men they don't respect.


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Thanks for your input.


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

Kevin. Instead of always saying thx for the input freaking do something here. Be decisive do the marriage 180 or run a MAP. Tell her to F Off. Tell her it's done. You need to separate. You will not be a door mate. Do something man.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Well I had lunch with my best Mate today and he assures me that in 12 months time I will look back and think why didn't this happen sooner. Feeling ok today. I'm actually Auctioning the house directly across the road from my house on Saturday.My house will be the next one on the market. Should be an interesting day on Saturday. Haven't spoken to her in the last 2 days nor do I want to.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

Kevin, 

Use your anger as fuel to galvanize you for what must be done.

These things aren't easy. But trust me, your best mate is correct. And it might not take 12 months.


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Saturday night 7pm. Auctioned the property accross the road handled it better than I thought I would. In the office now considering heading out to a bar. Shes taken the kids to her parents house. Feeling pretty lonely at the moment, could do with some nice femine company...its been 2 months!!! Just dont think I got the mojo....


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Kevinb said:


> Saturday night 7pm. Auctioned the property accross the road handled it better than I thought I would. In the office now considering heading out to a bar. Shes taken the kids to her parents house. Feeling pretty lonely at the moment, could do with some nice femine company...its been 2 months!!! Just dont think I got the mojo....


Forget that, brother. Even with the help of NASA if you were able to get it up and score with another woman, it wouldn't bring back your wife.

Like you, my wife doesn't want me. It's over for me. You're not divorced...yet. If you want her back, you should become the man you used to be, the one she fell for.

Forget what she did or what she's doing. In fact, forget her altogether. Worry about you. 180. If she comes back, great. If not, you've moved on. If you find out she left you for another man, then you can decide later after you're better IF you want her back.


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## LBHmidwest (Jan 3, 2014)

Kevinb said:


> Saturday night 7pm. Auctioned the property accross the road handled it better than I thought I would. In the office now considering heading out to a bar. Shes taken the kids to her parents house. Feeling pretty lonely at the moment, could do with some nice femine company...its been 2 months!!! Just dont think I got the mojo....


I'm with you too man, longest without being with a woman since the 80's.

Just opened this daily email, says it better than I could.

Source of Anger: Self-Inflicted
Day 69

Some anger can be self-inflicted, brought on by your own actions and wrong decisions.

“You want to feel loved and accepted,” says Dr. Les Carter. “As a result, you may find yourself more susceptible to sexual acting out, or maybe you have started hanging around a more unsavory crowd and engaging in social activities you might never have done before. These actions result in ‘self-inflicted wounds,’ which can later cause you to feel anger because you have a neediness that is pushing you to live in ways that you normally wouldn’t choose.”

When you give in to sexual or other temptations, your pain is numbed for a short time, but you remember what you did for a long time, and it can make you angry. If you have already given in to temptation and are feeling guilty or angry, stop. There is no need to dwell on what has been done. Turn to God for forgiveness and forgive yourself.


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## AFPhoenix (Dec 24, 2013)

Thanks for that LBH!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Hi Everyone, well doing the 180 as best as I can (we still live in the same house and have kids). Everyone I seem to talk to says that it will get easier and and I will fine....wish I could see it. Helps hering and reading about your stories and thanks for all the links especially "Just let her go" and the "180" havent had a chance to look at "no more Mr Nice guy" but I will. Its going to kill me residing myself to the fact that I wont be seeing my kids everyday. I told her last night that it was her turn to sleep downstairs and the boys slept with me...well they slept...Im still having problems getting a full nights sleep but it was lovely having them there.


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## LBHmidwest (Jan 3, 2014)

Kevin, watch the sleep. At about 3 months it gets serious, you can't go there. Get some help with a pill if you don't get straight on the sleep in a few months. Humans can't tolerate more.


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## AFPhoenix (Dec 24, 2013)

Kevin,

I'm not sure how the 180/NC works with her living in the same house. Regardless, it's a tough road to be on. Keep your head up for you and your kids. My prayers brother.


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Thanks, the 180 is that we basically ignore each other.... She seems to be doing the same. She hadn't brought selling the house so this morning I told her she would have to move some of her stuff out before we could get the photographer through. I've seen a place a few blocks away across from the boys present school which I'm thinking of putting in a rental application for but haven't done as yet...hope I don't miss it. It's a bit of a **** hole but has 3 bedrooms and a yard and its close to familiar surroundings and close to their (soon to be old) Mates and I like the area and community and its probably all I could afford with child payments etc.

What ****s me as well, is that she came into my life with a Nissan Pulsar and that was it. I had a couple of apartments which I sold after Aidan was born to buy our house and spent heaps renovating it to what it is now. She didn't work for the first 7 years and I was the sole provider. Now she'll get to walk away with about 350k, plus child support and Ill end up in a ****ty rental...but anyways I guess a number of you have been through that situation.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Kevinb said:


> Hi Everyone, well doing the 180 as best as I can (we still live in the same house and have kids). Everyone I seem to talk to says that it will get easier and and I will fine....wish I could see it. Helps hering and reading about your stories and thanks for all the links especially "Just let her go" and the "180" havent had a chance to look at "no more Mr Nice guy" but I will. Its going to kill me residing myself to the fact that I wont be seeing my kids everyday. I told her last night that it was her turn to sleep downstairs and the boys slept with me...well they slept...Im still having problems getting a full nights sleep but it was lovely having them there.


Kevin,

I'm a pharmacist.

Diphenhydramine 50mg helps you sleep. It's not a prescription medication in the US.


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Good on ya Conrad...thanks Mate


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Taking the day off today as youngest has a fever and wife works on Tues, Thurs &. Fridays. She came into the room and ask if I wouldn't mind staying at home. I thought of saying "no, you better get used to this once you leave and are on your own" but little fella needs me.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Kevinb said:


> Taking the day off today as youngest has a fever and wife works on Tues, Thurs &. Fridays. She came into the room and ask if I wouldn't mind staying at home. I thought of saying "no, you better get used to this once you leave and are on your own" but little fella needs me.


Best to say, "I have plans"

Talk less, do more.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

Kevinb said:


> What ****s me as well, is that she came into my life with a Nissan Pulsar and that was it. I had a couple of apartments which I sold after Aidan was born to buy our house and spent heaps renovating it to what it is now. She didn't work for the first 7 years and I was the sole provider. Now she'll get to walk away with about 350k, plus child support and Ill end up in a ****ty rental...but anyways I guess a number of you have been through that situation.


There's no way she can get more than half of what you guys have, is there?


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

There's a possibility that she can get 70/30 depending on how often we share the kids. I'm moving away from loving her to feelings of hate for her. 11 years I devoted to her and the kids and I think I've had blinkers on. I think I was in love with the family unit more so than her. All the **** I've put up with from her and her overbearing parents and I just kept the peace for fear of losing my kids.
The funny thing is that last time she left she got the single mothers pension and stayed on it for the last 2 years even when she moved back with me. That's tantamount pretty much to fraud against the Australian Government and people have gone to jail for less.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

Kevinb said:


> I think I was in love with the family unit more so than her.


Many of us co-dependents think/thought that way.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Kevin,

When you didn't feel her giving to you, it's natural to pour yourself into the family.

It makes you neither sexy nor attractive to her.

Very common mistake.


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## nickgtg (Jan 11, 2013)

Kevinb said:


> Taking the day off today as youngest has a fever and wife works on Tues, Thurs &. Fridays. She came into the room and ask if I wouldn't mind staying at home. I thought of saying "no, you better get used to this once you leave and are on your own" but little fella needs me.


I would never say no to my kids staying with me for any reason. I don't care what plans I had or the reason my ex wanted me to watch them.

It's not the fault of the kids their parents are divorced. They love mommy and daddy with unconditional love. I want my kids, when they are adults, to be able to look back and know that their daddy was always there for them no matter what.

I could care less what the reason is, if my kids want to come over, or if they need me for any reason, I'm there for them.

Trust me, kids know whose there for them and whose not. You can never get back lost time with your kids, never.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

Kevinb said:


> There's a possibility that she can get 70/30 depending on how often we share the kids. I'm moving away from loving her to feelings of hate for her. 11 years I devoted to her and the kids and I think I've had blinkers on. I think I was in love with the family unit more so than her. All the **** I've put up with from her and her overbearing parents and I just kept the peace for fear of losing my kids.
> The funny thing is that last time she left she got the single mothers pension and stayed on it for the last 2 years even when she moved back with me. That's tantamount pretty much to fraud against the Australian Government and people have gone to jail for less.


She could get 70%?! That seems crazy. I'm a firm believer that all marital assets should be split 50/50, and whatever one spouse had before marriage should remain theirs. If that results in a sub-par standard of living for the kids with one of the parents, child support should be used to adjust. 

Oh well though, it's ultimately just stuff. Downsizing could feel really freeing. And I think I'd love to rent again, owning can be such a headache.

Keep your chin up!


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Well she's ordered a skip bin to start dumping unwanted stuff which arrives tomorrow. Still doing the 180 and little if no communication. I've been on the dating sites and amazingly there seems to be some women who are interested in speaking with me.

I still feel a strong attachment to her I guess because of all of the things we've been through, the birth of both of my boys, raising them together, the holidays etc etc etc. how do women just forget all those things???
I'm going to miss my family, hell, I'm missing them already.

Thank you N.L, Three Strikes, Nick & Conrad for your support. It really means a lot to me.
Kev


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## nickgtg (Jan 11, 2013)

It's natural to miss both her and your family after such a long time together. I was married for over 16 years and we have 3 kids. You don't spend everyday of those years together and not have feelings of missing her and the family being together.

While it's okay to miss her, you must also remember why you're not together anymore. That's the key, at least for me, is whenever I feel like I'm missing her, to remember exactly what she did to our family. For me, that usually snaps me out of it pretty quickly.

Have fun with the dating, but it's also okay if you're not ready for it. I would just go out and have some fun, nothing serious. 

Take care.


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Well its been a while since Ive been here and just to update those of you who have been so nice and given me great support.

Ive been doing the 180 and following the "Just Let her Go" principals. I think the anti dep medication has kicked in as I dont dwell on things too much and dont seem to get teary etc.

The house goes on the market in the next few weeks and Im still waiting to see if I get the rental I applied for down the road. She takes the kids this weekend which is a long weekend in Melbourne and is going away with her parents. Its Joels 7th birthday on Monday but I guess I will see him when he gets back.

As for her denying that she ever had another man, well I noticed new sexy underwear in her draw.... so I dont know about that so much.

Ive joined a gym today and to date have lost 11 kgs (more through stress and not having any apetite) but I have been exercising.

Ive joined a couple of dating sites but nothing happening there.

It still saddens me to think of her being intimate with another man...does this go away????

Im looking to the future. Does the 180 work???


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## nickgtg (Jan 11, 2013)

You have to change your way of thinking. If she was or wasn't with another man, how does that change what you need to do?

You know what needs to be done. It's all about you now. 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 4


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## IronWine29 (Dec 31, 2013)

Kevinb said:


> It still saddens me to think of her being intimate with another man...does this go away????


Yes. Now -- at 18 months -- I am quite happy being alone. Will be ready for the right lady when the time comes. But it doesn't rile me to think about her with the OM, and I don't feel a sense of loss that she moved on and I have not.

In fact, I tend to feel pity for the poor bastard...he has no idea what's coming. That, my friend, is schadenfreude.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

IronWine29 said:


> Yes. Now -- at 18 months -- I am quite happy being alone. Will be ready for the right lady when the time comes. But it doesn't rile me to think about her with the OM, and I don't feel a sense of loss that she moved on and I have not.
> 
> In fact, I tend to feel pity for the poor bastard...he has no idea what's coming. That, my friend, is schadenfreude.


He already knows


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Hey Kevin this isn't your fault we have been brainwashed for a long time just watch this

Circumcision, Divorce and Male Disposability - Paul Elam on Freedomain Radio - YouTube


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Out of interest, what was the response from doing the 180.... Did it work? Did your WW come back?


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Well, tonight I spent the night with an old friend from the past. Don't exactly know how I feel about it, but it was nice to hold and talk to someone.

Wife gets back tomorrow with the kids, its Joel's 7th birthday and I can't wait to see him.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

Kevinb said:


> Out of interest, what was the response from doing the 180.... Did it work? Did your WW come back?


The purpose of the 180 isn't to win your wife back. It's to help you detach, and break your co-dependent tendencies.

The 180* works* every time, when implemented consistently.


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Yes, I realize this T I'm just finding it hard as for the life of me I don't know why but I still love this woman. Have been implementing the 180 pretty much full on. Thanks for your response, would love to hear from Synthetic, NL, Condrad, Ironwire, Tom and all the others as I take a lot from your opinions and value them greatly.


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## ghostflamer33 (Mar 10, 2014)

Hey Kev and the guys, just read up on your thread mate and i know exactly what you're going through. I was actually originally from kyabram near to cobram and made the move to melb. been with the missus or soon to be ex now 7 years, grew up with her son whom i met when he was only 2 1/2. got her out of her tiny little unit and into a good house with me, got her an education and a well bloody paid job. And is dong the exact same thing your missus is doing. Mine was also depressed and got off her meds and hit the alocohol. Reading through your post man I had to laugh at how close it was to mine, cos on valentines day i had the same thing everything was all sweet and loving me and next day boom turned to ****. 

Coming to todays date she just packed her bags in our house yesterday she was getting ready to move out with the son to stay at a bloody woman friends house who she has been going out with, thinking its what makes her happy binging on alcohol for close to a month every weekend.

So basically just wanted to say good luck with it mate, its a **** situation, I honestly thought through out all of this pain i was the only one who was suffering and going through this alone not knowing this is happening to others. im only 30 years old and dont want to do this again in my life. I did the same as you, stopped my life, do all the cooking cleaning, servicing our cars, pay the bills. All her mone yshe keeps to herself to pay her own loan which accumilated to $70,000.

If you ever need a mate close by to talk to, feel free to.


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## ghostflamer33 (Mar 10, 2014)

just to re-interate what others have said as well Kev. Yes the 180 does work - ive done it about 3 times with her. But if your partner suffers from depression, just from my own experience it is only a temporary fix or win back.

Because she will still be fighting whatever demons she has. And the voice recorder would be a good idea if im not too late on that. I caught her having an affair - thats when i did the 180, told her go and see the other bloke you want to, i wont bother or hassle you, enjoy your night wiht him and im going out to do my thing. I kid you not, yes she went out with him, yes i went out as well with another girl for the night (which i didnt do anything with but just for company, im not the type to cheat). The next day and week she saw how detached i was to the family and her, she came back and told me she loved me and that it was a big mistake... 

Out of it all the 180 works but the issues of whom ever your doing it to need to be addressed especially if they are not psychologically or emotionally in their right mind.


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Thanks GF, great to hear from someone on my side of the world. Hope it all works out for you better than me at the moment. Not into all the spying **** as have mentioned before...got better things to do with my time... But appreciate the advice... Enjoying the night with my two boys on the couch...take care
Kev


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Its really hard, today I have to organis e a photo shoot for my house to get it on the market.

Feel bloody lost and so alone. The situation is hitting home.


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## ghostflamer33 (Mar 10, 2014)

Hang in there mate!! So no chance of reconciling with her or trying to take things slowly? Its a **** these days especially when u have a family too. No ones willing to just bite the bullet, accept theres problems and fix them. Im not at your stage yet, she is still at home with me, her bags have been sitting in the hallway with her clothes in them since sunday. Gave her couple grand today cos she was way behind on her bills and what not. I hope ur missus will keep things civil for u to see the kids.mine said once shes out i wont see him again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

That's terrible Mate, it must hurt terribly not been able to see the boy. I feel like absolute crap today emotions running high. At least your Mrs hasn't pulled the pin yet and hopefully she will have a change of heart .... I wish mine would!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ghostflamer33 (Mar 10, 2014)

Thankfuly the boy and her are still at home, she advised she is moving this saturday. She knows hiw much i love him. My little fishing buddy and the only one he trust to tell anything too but she dont care. Mate its a long shot but maybe u shud try and do something like a one last crack at it. I took her out on sunday night to apollo bay, drove from hallam to there, it relaxed her and she felt more trusting. She said she didnt feel depressed and was needed to get away from where she was. Although its again like walking on egg shells at the moment, we do talk more, but she asks me to leave the room when she talks to her frends something not done before. But yeah thats some advuce i cud give, wud be taking her somewhere different away from the situation and let her see the happiness u two had and can have when not in that place or situation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

No mate, she's just angry all the time. I guess I'm still hoping there's a chance for us when we separate and not living together. I think she's having an affair but she denies it. I'm following the Just Let Her Go and trying the 180 but probably hoping that she will come back and not the reason that you're meant to do it for.

I guess all the other posters have lost interest in my situation as no one else is now posting.

Do people get back together I'd love some feedback


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Kevinb said:


> No mate, she's just angry all the time. I guess I'm still hoping there's a chance for us when we separate and not living together. I think she's having an affair but she denies it. I'm following the Just Let Her Go and trying the 180 but probably hoping that she will come back and not the reason that you're meant to do it for.
> 
> I guess all the other posters have lost interest in my situation as no one else is now posting.
> 
> Do people get back together I'd love some feedback


Please find out what you are up against. That's all.


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Thanks Tom. The "Just Let Her Go" principal is what I'm trying to follow together with the 180 as advised by other posters on this site. Both these principals advocate no spying....if that's what you mean


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

We are reading/watching.

Find out what you are up against. Stop making excuses not to and just do it.


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## Heartbroken84 (Feb 2, 2014)

Have you read divorce busters? That's got some really good stuff in and is where the 180 comes from, might be worth a read!  

Sorry your in this situation, there is always support here for you.


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## ghostflamer33 (Mar 10, 2014)

Hey kev mate. Im going to have to agree with these guys, as much as ur not a snoop and what not, youre going to have to be if u take this route. First off break it down simple, what things are making u assume she is having an affair? Think from the very first day she changed, then think back two weeks from that date. Because for us when the person changes its a sudden change but for them theyve been doing something outside ur normal family stuff for them to bring on a change. Now what other things is she doing at the moment that make u think she is having an affair. If ur free enough to write it we can give you our input and advise if u will need to investigate. Mate its hard but i had to do it myself and i am no way a snoop, i had to do it, because the first time she chested i turned a blind eye to it and did not react to the signs...this world is no longer old school and women are more cunning than men, no matter if shes ur missus or the mother of ur children, if something or someone is making her feel good in her ear she wont stop and ur gonna have to stop it by knowing what it is thats causing the issue and shr is not going to directly tell you so ur going to have to do it indirectly. Dont be the person who thinks later on in life i shud have done something but i never did...ive seen it hsppen to mates and ive also seen the mates who caught there wives cheating cos they snooped and in the end some decidedcto move on rathercthan stay vecause it set their hesrt at ease by getting an answer as to why their missus was giving the cold shoulder
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Help Me Choose (Mar 4, 2014)

Hi.Kevin.I have been following your post as it is similar to my problems.My partner of 18 years and the mother of our 13 year old son called our relationship off in November 2013. One day we were fine and the next KAPOW. She would not let me touch her and i mean not even hold her hand or a hug.I moved to spare bedroom and i am still there.I have provided a wonderful big house, no money worries i own my own company andher parents treat me like a son.I have asked her many times how we can get back on track and she clearly states she has not 1% of emotion left for me and would leave if it was not for our son.She only works part time and has said she does not want to work anymore and at this time i am paying all her bills , as i have for the last 18 years. What i am trying to say is that I just have to forget any thoughts of a reconsiliation and i think you must too. I am stunned that my partner wants to break up our family but i have to accept it and you do too. It is hard and i have tried all sorts of things to get us back together but she simply is not interested.I have now noticed her getting more nasty everyweek with me and i know at some point i will have to force her out of the house and provide her living accomodation. I am sure now that when a woman has split from a partner/husband like ours we have just to get it in our heads its over.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Help Me Choose said:


> Hi.Kevin.I have been following your post as it is similar to my problems.My partner of 18 years and the mother of our 13 year old son called our relationship off in November 2013. One day we were fine and the next KAPOW. She would not let me touch her and i mean not even hold her hand or a hug.I moved to spare bedroom and i am still there.I have provided a wonderful big house, no money worries i own my own company andher parents treat me like a son.I have asked her many times how we can get back on track and she clearly states she has not 1% of emotion left for me and would leave if it was not for our son.She only works part time and has said she does not want to work anymore and at this time i am paying all her bills , as i have for the last 18 years. What i am trying to say is that I just have to forget any thoughts of a reconsiliation and i think you must too. I am stunned that my partner wants to break up our family but i have to accept it and you do too. It is hard and i have tried all sorts of things to get us back together but she simply is not interested.I have now noticed her getting more nasty everyweek with me and i know at some point i will have to force her out of the house and provide her living accomodation. I am sure now that when a woman has split from a partner/husband like ours we have just to get it in our heads its over.


Wow. You said it in your last few sentences. I would tell her if she's in this relationship she needs to start acting like it. Otherwise tell her to move out and let her provide for herself while you initiate divorce proceedings.


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## Help Me Choose (Mar 4, 2014)

Hi.Picturless.Many thanks. I do not wish to hijack Kevins thread so i am going to do my own post later today and i would love your help.


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## beyondrepair (Aug 17, 2013)

Hi Kevin.

You are facing an uphill battle.

IF she is indeed having an affair (seemed like your gut is telling you so), your only chance is to nuke fantasyland, by bringing out in the open.

Believe me, if that is the case, there is no other way.

Or just accept that it is over and move on.

The damage is already done, you wouldnt possibly make it worse by eventually exposing her.

If you find proof, expose it to her, is she doesnt respond appropriately and chooses the AP, the hell with her.

Trying to nice her back during the separation will only prolong an agonising death to your M.

I have been there recently. Currently divorced. Personally I found my balls back too late in the ball game.

It wont harm to dig a little deeper, but it is up to you.

Good luck.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

beyondrepair said:


> Trying to nice her back during the separation will only prolong an agonising death to your M.
> 
> I have been there recently. Currently divorced. Personally I found my balls back too late in the ball game.
> 
> ...


It doesn't matter how many people say it, some will not do it.

They'll say "this is different"

Sure it is.


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## ghostflamer33 (Mar 10, 2014)

Hey kev any updates mate
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

No updates, we changed the photos for sale of the house to Monday as the kids have twig blight sports on the Thursday.

She still swears that she is not having any affair of any kind. I am still proceeding with the 180 and Just Let Her Go.

Missed out on the rental property so have to try and find a new one. Seeing my Psycologist today for a session.


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Out of interest what doe "the fog" mean? I've seen it referred to in many threads 
Thanks


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## ghostflamer33 (Mar 10, 2014)

Hey atleast u bought more time for yourself. I went to a psychologist too. He came down to the fact that she was just a narcisist, and no matter what u do or say she us just always going to ruin things one way or another.dont talk to her bout the affair stuff anymore looks like shes sticking to her story and if shes not having an affair thats good then, more of a chance for u...good luck with the 180 its hard to stick by, but once ur mind sets it opens u up again as your own self, and the earlier and quicker u get ur mind in that position the better
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Thanks GF, we should catch up for a beer sometime


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## ghostflamer33 (Mar 10, 2014)

Sounds like a plan mate. Are u in country vic or melb?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Melbourne


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

Kevinb said:


> Out of interest what doe "the fog" mean? I've seen it referred to in many threads
> Thanks


Kevin, it's how the WS acts (stupified) when they're in lust with their AP.

http://www.marriageadvocates.com/2012/07/10/coping-with-infidelity-understanding-the-wayward-fog/


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

helolover said:


> Kevin, it's how the WS acts (stupified) when they're in lust with their AP.
> 
> Coping With Infidelity: Understanding The "Wayward Fog" - Marriage AdvocatesMarriage Advocates


Exposing their vile deeds often breaks the fog.


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Well, interesting yesterday. Texted the wife told her I would pick up the boys from school as they had their twiglight sports later that evening, got a message back saying that I could take them as she didn't want to go. No surprise as she always try to avoid these type of events.

We'll got them home and I sat on the deck checking my phone and grabbed a beer, she comes out screaming at me saying why don't I get off the phone and clean the house " it's a pig sty" an over exaggeration by all means.

I get the boys up for school, get them breakfast, changed, teeth brushed etc and then drop them off (she's already left for work) I put the dishes in the dw wiped the bench and then rushed off to work.

I told her I was not her doormat anymore and to settle down, I later sent het a text that she should just trying being nice for a change. She texted back saying that I should "stop texting her and get back on your dating sites and annoy the poor *****es". 

Nice hey?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Kevinb said:


> Well, interesting yesterday. Texted the wife told her I would pick up the boys from school as they had their twiglight sports later that evening, got a message back saying that I could take them as she didn't want to go. No surprise as she always try to avoid these type of events.
> 
> We'll got them home and I sat on the deck checking my phone and grabbed a beer, she comes out screaming at me saying why don't I get off the phone and clean the house " it's a pig sty" an over exaggeration by all means.
> 
> ...


Why are you engaging her like that?

She's an emotional vampire.

Cut off her blood supply.


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## ghostflamer33 (Mar 10, 2014)

Kev your last response there bloody sounds exactly like my life and the **** she says down to a T. Im shocked, this must really be a woman thing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ghostflamer33 (Mar 10, 2014)

Oh btw kev im on the south east side of melb. Hallam area, if ur close by can go for a drink or organise something one day if u want
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Due diligence: I am a bit direct (Yank for obnoxious and opinionated). The above people are correct. You really do need to either cut her out completely NOW or find out what you are up against. Yes that is short hand for going all 007 on her. I am not known on the divorce board but am on the CWI board. I am pretty much head of the CIA here tho John handles the phone end of things as he is better in that area. I've taken down 28 cheating wives' and 1 husbands affairs. I effing loathe cheating.

At least we have you believing the most likely. Current affair.

This is partly directed to those who will read this thread in the future as I think you are set in your ways but I will give it a shot anyway. (Me being direct and all that happy...)

Numbers for you:
Probability of affair given current red flags: 65%
Biggest red flag: Sexy new underwear. Given the time lengths I am unsure whether the affair started two years ago or the affair is recent. Chicken and egg first question. Affair first or depression first?

Let me ask a few non spy game questions. 
What are any other red flags you have not mentioned? (Frequent unexplained time away, always showering when coming home, always changes underwear, secretive with phone etc)

Look deep within yourself. If you find out another man has put his load inside your wife. Can you even get past that? I mean get past as in live a reasonably normal life not an angry bitter one. There is zero shame in saying no.

Do you both work for money? hours per week each? I see a workload imbalance here.

PM me if you wish. I am as good as it gets without spending hundreds on PIs. I am known on CWI for not spilling sensitive information I am entrusted with.

FWIW I think Australia takes the "honor" for screwing men most in divorce outranking even UK and California.


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Thanks Weightlifter, your post put a smile on my face...god knows I need one right now. To answer the questions, pretty much no to all.

Yes I think I could get over the thought of her been with another man...not easy albeit.

Wish I could get some sleep!!! I seem to lay awake all night and dread the mornings. I like the stillness of the middle of the night.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Kevinb said:


> Thanks Weightlifter, your post put a smile on my face...god knows I need one right now. To answer the questions, pretty much no to all.
> 
> Yes I think I could get over the thought of her been with another man...not easy albeit.
> 
> Wish I could get some sleep!!! I seem to lay awake all night and dread the mornings. I like the stillness of the middle of the night.


Weightlifter will help you get re-acquainted with those things that formerly hung between your legs.

Get them back.


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Thanks Conrad, I take it you mean I have no balls. I don't feel this to be the case but thank you for your feed back anyway


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Kevinb said:


> Thanks Conrad, I take it you mean I have no balls. I don't feel this to be the case but thank you for your feed back anyway


If you were observing a close friend in your situation, what would you tell him to do?


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

I'm sorry things have no improved between you and your wife. It seems that you are desperately trying to fill that void with other women. I don't know that you're going to find any happiness going that route. It's a little bit like a drug and will always leave you wanting. Plus, you will be burdened by other feelings of guilt and it just complicates things. Perhaps find a less complicated and healthier way to cope.


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Yes Blanca, I think you are correct


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Conrad, did you get my pm


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Kevinb said:


> Conrad, did you get my pm


I did not.


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

We'll photos taken last night and first open for inspection will be this Saturday with the Auction on the 12th. Breaks my heart.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Conrad said:


> I did not.


Got it this time.


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Couldn't sleep at all last night. Just cuddled up next to my 2boys as wife slept downstairs.

Absolutely exhausted this morning and feeling quite anxious....when does it start to get better?


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

She has a vile temper. Going to a relief to escape it, don't you think?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Virtually no contact at all....am I doing the right thing??? Feel pretty dead inside.

Do people actually R after the home is sold and they go their own ways? All the threads I'm reading are from folks who are separating, but none have actually sold their home.

This has happened all so quickly....


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## Help Me Choose (Mar 4, 2014)

Hi.Kevinb.
Your story is all so common and similar to mine. One day we were fine, together 20 years and 1 son and then BANG. I love you but not in love with you and i have emotionally ignored her.Well that rubbish i have worked my azz off for 20 years for us and my son. I still live with her at this point but she looks through me like i am a ghost and is normally ICE cold.She has made it clear that she is only still with me because she does not want to work(other than a few hours a week) Its funny because like you i seem to keep wanting her back but why should we? Anyway we just have to keep moving forward despite the hits we have taken.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Kevinb said:


> Virtually no contact at all....am I doing the right thing??? Feel pretty dead inside.
> 
> Do people actually R after the home is sold and they go their own ways? All the threads I'm reading are from folks who are separating, but none have actually sold their home.
> 
> This has happened all so quickly....


People R when she suggests it - and not before.

And, she doesn't suggest it because you ask her.


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Conrad. I'm not asking her anymore.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Kevinb said:


> Conrad. I'm not asking her anymore.


Stay on that new path.


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

I will try my friend.

HMC yes we have to keep moving forward....not easy though


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

We'll the other day I looked throughout her bedside draw and found that she is back on the pill ( I got snipped after our 2nd) I texted her and she replied " wanna take it up with my doc?"

First open for inspection for our home yesterday and 16 groups through. She took the kids and went to her parents.

I went out with my best Mate his gfnd and a girl that was staying with them from Germany. Got back to their place and ended up in the spa with the girl and then spent the night with her...was surprised because while I've been on these meds things haven't been working as good they used to...if you know what I mean...

Don't quite know how I really feel about it right now. It was a nice night and she's a sweet girl. A bit messed up in the head right now...but it was lovely holding someone again.

Do know how I feel...I still love my wife and want her back.

I know I shouldnt of texted her about discovering the pill...but it hurt to find them.

She'll be back soon so back to the 180... Can't wait to see my boys


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Time for a reverse vasectomy?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

LongWalk said:


> Time for a reverse vasectomy?


Not yet.

He should do all test driving unplugged.


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Not yet.
> 
> He should do all test driving unplugged.


Conrad ????


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Kevinb said:


> Conrad ????


I wouldn't recommend exploring reversing any vasectomy until you find someone you are truly serious about.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Kevin, you are the first i am pretty sure that after it all crashes who finally got some poon who is like...

meh...


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Conrad said:


> I wouldn't recommend exploring reversing any vasectomy until you find someone you are truly serious about.


The longer you wait, the lower the success rate.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

weightlifter said:


> Kevin, you are the first i am pretty sure that after it all crashes who finally got some poon who is like...
> 
> meh...



Check T levels!


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

LongWalk said:


> The longer you wait, the lower the success rate.


But dou you think it was a good idea????


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## ghostflamer33 (Mar 10, 2014)

Well done mate!! Kev shud go out to an over 28s night. I went last friday with a mate. Bloody good and the girls there will def. Get ur mind off things.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

ghostflamer33 said:


> Well done mate!! Kev shud go out to an over 28s night. I went last friday with a mate. Bloody good and the girls there will def. Get ur mind off things.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


thanks Mate but right now Im wondering if I did the right thing last Saturday night???!!!


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Kevinb said:


> But dou you think it was a good idea????


We had discussion about this. Sperm is part of the semen mixture that is absorbed by the vagina and gives women a psychopharmacological high. This is nature's way of boosting relationship by making women feel love. So is sperm important? The research probably has not been done yet.

Rationally some women may not want children. Maybe a man shooting blanks suits them. Maybe the live semen is important, a detail but like something that should be in the recipe, just a pinch but still important.

We could start a thread and ask TAM women, but it would not be a scientific sample.

If you date women who want children, you are disqualified and you may not know why. Maybe a woman will say wow, "he was nice" but as soon a the no children becomes a factor you might be disqualified. 

I would PM Machiavelli and ask him his opinion. He has interesting insights.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

LongWalk said:


> We had discussion about this. Sperm is part of the semen mixture that is absorbed by the vagina and gives women a psychopharmacological high. This is nature's way of boosting relationship by making women feel love. So is sperm important? The research probably has not been done yet.


This 'mood elevation' had been theoretically attributed to the mood-enhancing hormones found in the seminal fluids, not the sperm itself. Seminal fluids contain endorphins, seratonin, oxytocin, and other goodies.

Guys with vasectomies still produce seminal fluids loaded with these hormones/chemicals. 

Kevin, the only reason to consider a reverse vasectomy is if *you* want more kids.


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

I think a lot of research has been done already. Read Sperm Wars. Interesting and kind of scary read.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

helolover said:


> I think a lot of research has been done already. Read Sperm Wars. Interesting and kind of scary read.


That book is not science. Sorry. Authors love to skew scientific data to make it seem that their hypotheses are, in fact, based on reality. The book is nothing more than conjecture and cheap titillation.

However, people will believe what they want to justify their own belief systems.

To each their own... I don't want to hijack this thread.


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Yeah thanks, but my question is...did I do the right thing?


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

There was an article in paper the other day that the number of men getting vasectomies is going down. Perhaps in the impermanence of marriage is cause for doubt.

I wonder if men and women like ejaculate that has no sperm in it. 

The fact that people wonder whether vasectomies could have negative effects is a sign that they are not entirely happy with the idea.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Kevinb said:


> Yeah thanks, but my question is...did I do the right thing?


By getting laid?

Did you have fun?


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Conrad said:


> By getting laid?
> 
> Did you have fun?


yes and at the time yes...but feel quite guilty after and now


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Kevinb said:


> yes and at the time yes...but feel quite guilty after and now


Why?


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Why?


I dont know Conrad...it feels like Ive cheated on her...I know that sounds stupid but its just how I feel...


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Im wondering if when the house is sold and we move apart if her way of thinking will change. She will have the kids pretty much full time and she works 3 days a week, she will be living full time with her parents and her work is about an hours commute and possibly longer depending on peak hour traffic.

Does anyone know of people who get back together after going through this and selling up???

Im still doing the 180 so there is virtually no communication between us.

How do you define becoming a better man ... as per the 180?? Im in reasonable shape...although Ive got back on the ****...I have a good job which Im good at...Im not an ahole who mistreats women...I dont have a drinking or drug problem... I love my wife and kids?

Any advice would be welcome. Thanks


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## Granny7 (Feb 2, 2013)

Kevinb said:


> Im wondering if when the house is sold and we move apart if her way of thinking will change. She will have the kids pretty much full time and she works 3 days a week, she will be living full time with her parents and her work is about an hours commute and possibly longer depending on peak hour traffic.
> 
> Does anyone know of people who get back together after going through this and selling up???
> 
> ...


KevinB,
I just started reading your threads and I'm sorry you are where your at. My H cheated on me after 23 yrs. of marriage and to say that I was shocked, is an understatement. We went through, or I should say, 5 yrs. of counciling and I stayed in the marriage because I still loved him, forgave him, etc. It was a 3 yr. A and he did sleep with her on 2 weekends. They didn't have sex, which I am sure everyone, except those that have read my threads, will shake there heads. He's taken 2 polygraph test, by a leading detective and passed them. He was in it at the age of 40, after she started flirting with him, he enjoyed the new attention and I didn't know about it, so he rationalized that I wasn't getting hurt. It still kills me to this day that he even slept with her, because we got married at 18 and had never been with anyone else. I obviously put more importance on our marriage and definitely gave more than he did. So, the main reason for the no sex, was he didn't want to go that final step. She eventually broke it off as she was married, looking for a better catch and that wasn't what he planned to do.

Fast forward 25 yrs. later and now I regret staying. I'm suffering from PTSD, can't hardly sleep with him anymore because of the thoughts running through my head. Not sure if there is any love left due to his lack of remorse after the A and his drinking problems during the yrs. before, especially during the A and even after. He did quit 2 yrs. ago and has become a better person, but not when I want details about the A that he never gave me 25 yrs. ago. 

So, as I followed your story, I first of all think that you are doing the right thing. You can't make someone love you and why do you want her back after the long journey that you have been through these past 2 yrs? Is it hard to sell your home and move on? Yes it is, because if I decide to leave, I will be doing the same thing. I've custom built the last 2 homes. The first one was where I got the love letters from the OWH telling me about the A, along with the letters my H wrote to her. We had only been in our new home for 3 months. The stay there after the A was never a happy one and we moved, after I built another one 6 yrs. later. Now this one isn't happy either and I'm sure not going to build another one. We will sell it and either move to a smaller one, maybe share the bedroom or I'll sleep in the guest room. Other option is to rent or buy 2 smaller apartments. I'm now 70 yrs. old, not in the best of health, physically or emotionally right now. I'm trying to find the love again, but not sure if I can and it's a hell of a place to be at. So, I know your pain.

In regards to sleeping with the OW yourself after you were separated, don't beat yourself up so much. My H doesn't seem to get how bad it has hurt me by him sleeping with the OW, he wishes he hadn't, but he can't undo it. Sometimes I wish I had the guts to go out and sleep with someone and maybe he might see how it would make him feel? He always says that he would be more understanding and not bring it up 25 yrs. later? If the situation presented itself, not sure I could do it anyway. But you were separated, so I see nothing wrong with it. You didn't hurt anyone, but I can see that you still love your wife and the family that has now changed, but you can't make her love you. 

It will get easier once the house is sold, you get settled. Just love your boys, focus on them and yourself and as nice as you sound, you will find someone who deserves you someday.

Also for all the men out there, in regards to the vasectomy. My H had one after our 3rd. child. I can assure all of you, that their isn't any difference in regards to how it feels to a woman. It's actually better as you don't have to worry about birth control. Now if you find another woman and she wants children and your not to far up in age, in can be reversed, but cross that bridge when you come to it.

I hope I have helped a little. Sorry it was so long. I pray that better days are ahead for you. They're some very nice people on TAM, so keep posting and listen to them and you will be okay.

Granny7


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Kevinb said:


> I dont know Conrad...it feels like Ive cheated on her...I know that sounds stupid but its just how I feel...


Kevin you are a good guy I think you have some PTSD going on look at this as a war so to speak this too will pass.
She is only the mother of your children not a friend.


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Thank you Granny, it means a lot to me that you took the time to write a post.

I do love my wife and my boys and just want the family back in tact. Im doing the 180 as everyone has suggested and its difficult as we live in the same house. 

So im hoping that MAYBE she will miss me and our life together when we are seaparated...I know this sounds like wishful dribble...


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## Granny7 (Feb 2, 2013)

Kevinb said:


> Thank you Granny, it means a lot to me that you took the time to write a post.
> 
> I do love my wife and my boys and just want the family back in tact. Im doing the 180 as everyone has suggested and its difficult as we live in the same house.
> 
> So im hoping that MAYBE she will miss me and our life together when we are seaparated...I know this sounds like wishful dribble...


Kevinb,
Now, I see why you feel guilty about the girlfriend that night. I didn't realize that you were both still in the same house? If I had thought about it more, it would have made sense since you just put it on the market. 

I would stay with the 180, I so wish I had done that 25 yrs. ago. I feel that my CH felt that he got away with everything, but if I had known the total truth I would have made him leave. It took me 8 months to find out that he had slept with her because he lied so much to me. If I could do it over again, when I was only 40 and looked young for my age also, I would have divorced him then for what he did. I was a good, loving wife and loved him as much 25 yrs. after our marriage as the day I married him. Now at 70, even though I don't look that age, my health has taken a toll on me and it's much harder, as I said.

When the other's told you to try and find out if she was having an A, I totally agree with them. I think you would then feel entirely different about wanting to stay with her. The OWH had sent me a letter 8 months into their A and it was during their first weekend together, but my H convinced me that it was sent as he had fired this person's wife and being in the position that he was in as an executive and she was a secretary, I believed him. He was always home, maybe a little later some evenings, but I thought it had to do with his job. Not them meeting for drinks and dancing. I never knew all the signs back then of A's as I trusted him so much. I should have called the person that sent me that letter and then I would have known the truth. Not let the A go on for another 2 1/2 yrs., where they would bond even more emotionally and go off on another weekend. I just found out this past 6 months that the weekend that I got the first letter about the A, that he said he wasn't having, that they were together that weekend. I all along thought that he was at a conference in Orlando? 

Now that I know all the signs, the loss of weight, him drinking more, arguing with me more and not being nice sometimes. Not desiring sex quite as often (thought it had to do with him being tired from work) but his mind was on her. Him taking me to her home, with her H and children for a Christmas party, that I told him he had no business going to in his position. Having drinks with them and other employee's twice, with her being there should have made me think. I even saw her whispering something into his ear at our Bowling league (which he convinced me that I didn't need to bowl that year as I needed to supervise the building of the pool) and I told him, "You had better watch out for her, she's coming on to you!" Of course, I didn't know that they had already slept together! That's what trust can do to you, so be careful and maybe think a little more about what could be going on. 

After that first letter, my CH played his cards so good. When I finally reached him, at his so called conference, I was crying on the phone and was so upset, he even offered to come home right away, which was a 2 hr. drive and leave his "Conference." I told him, "No, I believe you, I know you wouldn't ever cheat on me, so just stay at the conference." I was so stupid, but again, that's trust in the person you love so much and I would have bet a million dollars that he would have never cheated on me and I said that to him several times when we heard about other couples.

So always keep your eyes open. Take care, hope I've helped you in some way.

Granny7


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Thanks Granny


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Kevinb said:


> Im wondering if when the house is sold and we move apart if her way of thinking will change. She will have the kids pretty much full time and she works 3 days a week, she will be living full time with her parents and her work is about an hours commute and possibly longer depending on peak hour traffic.
> 
> Does anyone know of people who get back together after going through this and selling up???
> 
> ...


I know you've said you don't want to investigate. But, as Granny indicates, currently you are flying blind.

I would wager finding out what she did would greatly improve your state of mind... about what to do about your life and how to feel about what you did.


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Hi Conrad, i think I'll use one of your quotes..."hope for the best, prepare for the worse"

As you indicated previously I probably dont have the balls to do it and Im a bit fragile right now so dont think I could face with what I find out


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Kevinb said:


> Hi Conrad, i think I'll use one of your quotes..."hope for the best, prepare for the worse"
> 
> As you indicated previously I probably dont have the balls to do it and Im a bit fragile right now so dont think I could face with what I find out


Think it over.

As Valjean said in Les Miserables, "The truth is revealed to us all in our time, in our turn"


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

thanks Conrad


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## Granny7 (Feb 2, 2013)

Kevinb said:


> thanks Conrad


KevinB,
Please, please think about what I posted. Trust me, you will regret it if you find out later and more things were done behind your back than you know. The humiliation will be worse as you will feel so used by your wife. The lovemaking, everything will come back and haunt you if their is something going on. Don't get blind sited like I was and I was even warned and didn't believe the OWH, I believed my lying one first, because I trusted him. You know the story, just learn from the pain that I'm going through now.

Trust me when I say, if you put your head in the sand because you can't deal with it, it will suffocate you later and be much worse. I pray for your sake that nothing has happened, but you'll never know if you don't check into it as everyone has suggested. I didn't and look what it has done to me?

Good luck,
Granny7


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Granny I appreciate your advice as I do Conrad's and all the other posters. I have prepared for the worse and albeit if nothing else happens that's what I have prepared for.

I love my woman, my kids....my family! But I just can't bring myself to go to the lengths of VAR's, key recorders or gps' s etc. I would feel like one of those people from that show cheaters.

If my wife is cheating...and that's what I'm preparing for...then so be it. It will all come out in the wash and let's face it, I haven't been a goody toe shoes in the last couple of weeks either.

I know this might be hard for everyone to understand but if she has cheated and it comes out then at least I find out without going to the lengths of having to spy on her...and in some way that, I can live with.

I've been doing the 180 as best I can, and one of the principals it states is "no spying" and that suits me.

Please don't get me wrong, I do appreciate everyone's feedback and TAM has been very important for me


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

I misunderstood the question: "Did I do the right thing." I thought you were referring to the vasectomy not the ONS. Haha. Hope it was of interest anyway.

The desire to know whether or not your wife is/was cheating is also one of those questions with more than one answer. The alpha dude who is moving on does not need to find out more. If his woman is so disloyal, he cancels her place in his heart and soul and prepares to move on. She becomes undesirable. How many of us have that level of self confidence? But even if we don't, following the 180 idea of purging thoughts of her is necessary for survival.

Onetis can last an awful long time and be crippling. There are plenty of fine people on TAM, both men and women who take two years or longer to move on.

There is also another way of looking at intelligence. You are the protector and perpetrator of your selfish genes. They want to know if you wife cheated. This is an existential question for them. Furthermore, you deal with her as a co-parent. Will doing that be better or worse if you leave this question unanswered?

Granny,

You are one sharp lady and I am sorry wisdom came late but better late than never. And your desire for the truth may figure in Kevin's internal debate on what to do.

Can you beat your husband in bowling?


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## Granny7 (Feb 2, 2013)

Kevinb said:


> Granny I appreciate your advice as I do Conrad's and all the other posters. I have prepared for the worse and albeit if nothing else happens that's what I have prepared for.
> 
> I love my woman, my kids....my family! But I just can't bring myself to go to the lengths of VAR's, key recorders or gps' s etc. I would feel like one of those people from that show cheaters.
> 
> ...


Kevinb,
You have to do with whatever is comfortable for you. From my prospective, however, I'll will never feel like you have messed up your marriage vows with a ONS, as you are separated. Believe me, if you had not been I would have been the first one to call you on it. Good luck in whatever happens. 
Granny7


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Thanks Granny, I hope that is the case


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Just read through this and I gotta say that it sort of reminds me of LuvMyJava's thread over in CWI.


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Gus, send me the link


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Kevinb said:


> Gus, send me the link


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...nfessed-how-handle-her-romps-loverboy-96.html


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Kevin, just caught up with your threads and here are my observations (and answers to your question on other threads):

There is no real privacy in certain things in a marriage - avoiding finding out for certain if she is cheating by using VARs etc is not the way to go - you absolutely need to find out or it will drive you nuts!

The chances are high that she is cheating - no sex, suddenly withdrawing from the relationship, rewriting marital history (I stopped loving you a long time ago etc), sexy underwear & BC pills (although the BC pills are sometimes prescribed for other reasons but am not sure what they are). You absolutely need to find out.

This is the major point that I want to make: you are hoping that she will realise how tough her life is going to be and comes back as a result of this! This is completely WRONG! Even if she did this. You should want her back because she loves you and is in love with you and realises this. Nothing else will work. Getting back together because of finances, the kids etc is all wrong and will lead to pain and contempt further down the line.

Now in response to your question on whether ex's ever reconcile and come back after divorce, well it depends on the circumstances leading up to and just after the divorce or split. I believe it's happened here on TAM a couple of times. And this why discovery (using VARs etc) is important. 

Here's how it goes (IMO):
If you really get down to the truth behind her leaving *and* it is another man *and* you expose & confront *and* she cannot deny - then she may sink to rock bottom, be and act truly remorseful and actually fight to get you back - you cannot nice her back or get her back in any other way - and an important consideration for this is you continue to heal yourself (the 180) and improve yourself (physically and mentally) & have a good time. She will see this and will admire you for it which also makes you more attractive to her (and other women, by the way).

If she is leaving for some other reason *and* this is a valid reason *and* you have not rectified it she will not return and there will not be a reconciliation.

In any case you need to get to the bottom of this - at the very least rule out an affair for your own peace of mind!

None of what I have said is new - it's been proven here on TAM.

Your first course of action should be to at least try and get to the truth and stop viewing the use of VARs as something bad. You are in a battle for your marriage!


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Right now you want to reconcile with your wife, correct? If she's cheating would you still want her?


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

As sad as it sounds...probably


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

In that case, you need to investigate an affair in order to break it up and bring her out of the fog. The reality of other people knowing about an affair, such as the affair partners wife, tends to kill the unicorns and turns the rainbows in fantasy land into a black and white mess.

**** roaches scatter when the lights are turned on. Being found out be family and friends that you're a mistress just doesn't have that romantic aura it used to have.


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## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

thanks


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