# Deceptive Sexuality & Trauma (DST)- a new abuse disorder



## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

61d87d5e49fd9b241da5828f_DST_A_Clinical_Model_Jan_2022.pdf (webflow.com)

There is so much obvious, and yet never put together in one place, an attempt to better understand both the mechanisms and effects of betrayal on the betrayed. It's not heavy psycho-babble; just 11 pages of pretty easy reading, and some here might have that "Ah-ha" moment, thinking somebody finally gets my life.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

do you have the cliff notes?


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Talker67 said:


> do you have the cliff notes?


There are a couple pages that summarize things well; check out pages 10 and 11. The premise of the paper is below-

Accordingly, the core of my work attempts to:

• remedy the victim-blaming and diagnostic mislabeling of deceptive sexuality victims
• designate a name for the abuse disorder associated with deceptive sexuality
• develop effective treatments for victims, abusers, and the injured relationship(s) of
deceptive sexuality


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Sounds like yet another "disorder" for which I assume we'll probably be seeing a new TV commercial - to go along with the 14 OTHER "mental wellness" medication commercials currently on TV.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Sounds like yet another "disorder" for which I assume we'll probably be seeing a new TV commercial - to go along with the 14 OTHER "mental wellness" medication commercials currently on TV.


No, I don’t think so. This is about recognizing the need to change the focus from being too centered on the causes and motivations of the betrayer. That there are reasons it takes so long for the betrayed to improve, if he/she ever does. It’s the first model I’ve seen that explains why the passage of time can make things worse, not better.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

I would think forgiveness, taking responsibility, and overcoming a victim mindset would all be very helpful.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

The following podcast, interviewing Dr. Minwalla, might be a good place to start. This is really hard-hitting stuff. Or at least it hits me hard?  It's 37 minutes long; the first three or four are just into stuff you can fast forward through.

Understanding Betrayal with Dr. Omar Minwalla Part One | Helping Couples Heal

The judgment calls are tough. Especially since rule #1 for therapists seems to be avoiding judgment. But when avoidance of judgment is one of the ways the betraying partner protects themselves, where do you go? If they can't feel a responsibility for their actions that goes beyond a slap on the wrist, if they can't accept the "durability" of their abuse, they'll just keep rug-sweeping and want accolades for the "I've been really good the past couple of weeks. Don't I get credit for that?" And in so many cases (ok, sample size of ONE!), it's the abused partner that decided to let a lot of things go, to maintain peace. And it's the abuser who expects the reward for that.


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## Imnobodynew (Feb 11, 2016)

Hey OP, 
Just wanted to add this little gem. I shared your post on Reddit, and someone commented with this little gem. 
More laymen., less of a professional survey. as the link above. I love the chart on page 30. You could classify almost all of the CWI posts into these categories or phases. A good read.

Here is the link:
https://uploads-ssl.webflow.com/617...84d60_The_Secret_Sexual_Basement_Nov_2021.pdf


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Imnobodynew said:


> Hey OP,
> Just wanted to add this little gem. I shared your post on Reddit, and someone commented with this little gem.
> More laymen., less of a professional survey. as the link above. I love the chart on page 30. You could classify almost all of the CWI posts into these categories or phases. A good read.
> 
> ...


Thanks, pretty much identical content but illustrated better for the patient rather than therapist. I’m waiting to talk with our therapist about whether my wife is ready to go through that piece or not. It resonates _SO_ strongly with me, but I have to be on guard for confirmation bias.

There is so much out there that basically bypasses all this and focuses so much on the betrayer, what caused him or her to betray. And so little they focuses on the magnitude of their actions on the betrayer’s thinking. I never thought I’d put myself into a legit traumatized category, but here it is.

Most significant in this guy’s work is the huge amount of effort that the betrayer is responsible to make. Is he or she up to it? This puts it in their face. No more thinking “why can’t he/she just get over it?”


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Imnobodynew said:


> Hey OP,
> Just wanted to add this little gem. I shared your post on Reddit, and someone commented with this little gem.
> More laymen., less of a professional survey. as the link above. I love the chart on page 30. You could classify almost all of the CWI posts into these categories or phases. A good read.
> 
> ...


Sure wish they could format this sort of thing without so much dense inking background. Nice to be able to print it out and scribble on it, y'know?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Casual Observer said:


> No, I don’t think so. This is about recognizing the need to change the focus from being too centered on the causes and motivations of the betrayer. That there are reasons it takes so long for the betrayed to improve, if he/she ever does. It’s the first model I’ve seen that explains why the passage of time can make things worse, not better.


I definitely think that's true but I don't have the answer for that. I think if you don't get to where you can go past it in a certain amount of time, you might not.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I definitely think that's true but I don't have the answer for that. I think if you don't get to where you can go past it in a certain amount of time, you might not.


Im hoping they you’re wrong, that there isn’t some definable period of time before you have to give up. That might be true in most cases, but if you can find a new focus, reframe the conversation successfully, you have a chance long after those far wiser would have counseled giving up.

I think the work presented here is transformative, something waiting for therapists to get on board and see the light. But it’s a massive change that requires the needs of BOTH the relationship and the betrayed to trump the betrayer. There is little place in this framework for the betrayed to feel he or she had any part in creating the rationalization used by the betrayer. It’s open ended, without a timeframe for resolution, which is NOT what a betrayer wants to hear. Nor is it a message a therapist would want to push because it somehow seems unfair. Vindictive even. Yet it’s not. It’s about giving the betrayed their dignity and life back.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Casual Observer said:


> Im hoping they you’re wrong, that there isn’t some definable period of time before you have to give up. That might be true in most cases, but if you can find a new focus, reframe the conversation successfully, you have a chance long after those far wiser would have counseled giving up.
> 
> I think the work presented here is transformative, something waiting for therapists to get on board and see the light. But it’s a massive change that requires the needs of BOTH the relationship and the betrayed to trump the betrayer. There is little place in this framework for the betrayed to feel he or she had any part in creating the rationalization used by the betrayer. It’s open ended, without a timeframe for resolution, which is NOT what a betrayer wants to hear. Nor is it a message a therapist would want to push because it somehow seems unfair. Vindictive even. Yet it’s not. It’s about giving the betrayed their dignity and life back.


I'm sure it depends on the basic mental mindset of each person. But the longer you are chewing on something the more ingrained it gets in your head it seems to me. And I have been there.


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## Bcause (5 mo ago)

I have been there! I am there. This is on the money. It so clearly defines the last 7 years of my life. May be longer but my checkbook tells me it has been going on that long. It has been 1-1/2 years after my perceived reality collided with the knowledge of what was really true and it was indeed a fracture. The tactics my stbx put in to hide his double life had me so depressed and feeling worthless even before I knew. I never thought he would be capable of hurting me and betraying me in so many ways. He constantly tried to change my perception of what happened, even my own health issues. Anything to keep me in the dark and unable to make choices on the real reality. There is some peace in knowing what happened. For a long while nothing made sense. 33 years of marriage. Have a million questions and he is in complete denial.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Bcause said:


> I have been there! I am there. This is on the money. It so clearly defines the last 7 years of my life. May be longer but my checkbook tells me it has been going on that long. It has been 1-1/2 years after my perceived reality collided with the knowledge of what was really true and it was indeed a fracture. The tactics my stbx put in to hide his double life had me so depressed and feeling worthless even before I knew. I never thought he would be capable of hurting me and betraying me in so many ways. He constantly tried to change my perception of what happened, even my own health issues. Anything to keep me in the dark and unable to make choices on the real reality. There is some peace in knowing what happened. For a long while nothing made sense. 33 years of marriage. Have a million questions and he is in complete denial.


Sorry you're going through this. I think the betrayed really gets screwed over in the discovery and reconciliation process because so much emphasis is put on the betrayer, what he or she did, and the betrayed gets a bit lost in the process. The betrayer thinks you jump through this hoop, capitulate for a little while on this or that demand, and things will be normal again. The betrayer isn't made aware that the biggest damage isn't to the marriage, but to the person.

It's like a reverse of the toxic soup that makes cheating so exciting. Everything so intoxicating about the affair, the incredible sex, the longing... think of the exact opposite, but instead of the great feelings being fleeting and (usually) ultimately failing...

...The betrayed is second-guessing EVERYTHING in life, the recognition of what lack of agency means is hit like a brick wall. Over and over and over. There is likely PTSD-type trauma that isn't paid attention to because the betrayer is focusing on their actions, not effects. 

The betrayer doesn't respect the idea that things might never be the same again, or even close. Doesn't understand why the betrayed is going to be on a hair trigger for signs of even the smallest deceit or lie. The betrayer wants to believe, so desperately, that they're saving the betrayed from pain by witholding things they think don't need to be known. 

Dr. Minwalla's Secret Sexual Basement and the damage it can cause deserves a much wider audience.


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## Bcause (5 mo ago)

I couldn’t agree more. He put me 2nd. I don’t know about some people fnwhat you said. See he refuses to admit much and retracted quickly. No reconciliation, I offered if he got help and cut out all the people in his secret life.. I had to discover all the details in my own. He is still playing victim.


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## Bcause (5 mo ago)

The podcast is very good. Resource Library
DST podcast


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

It should be noted that this is not a disorder that has been admitted into the DSM which is the psychiatric manual. 


But it makes some good points. CSE, Compulsive Sexual Entitlement, we see that time and again on this forum.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

DownByTheRiver said:


> It should be noted that this is not a disorder that has been admitted into the DSM which is the psychiatric manual.
> 
> 
> But it makes some good points. CSE, Compulsive Sexual Entitlement, we see that time and again on this forum.


The idea of a “Deceptive Sexuality and Trauma” model makes a lot of sense and encompasses a huge portion of what we see here on TAM. Nobody would argue the merits of deception and subsequent trauma, but somehow when we center it on sex it diminishes credibility? The DSM is a bit behind and perhaps tries to be too analytical rather than apportion blame. DST clearly places blame.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Casual Observer said:


> The idea of a “Deceptive Sexuality and Trauma” model makes a lot of sense and encompasses a huge portion of what we see here on TAM. Nobody would argue the merits of deception and subsequent trauma, but somehow when we center it on sex it diminishes credibility? The DSM is a bit behind and perhaps tries to be too analytical rather than apportion blame. DST clearly places blame.


The DSM is an ever-evolving manual. They may simply believe that this disorder could be encompassed by an already existing disorder of some type. Or they may be wanting more complete research or whatever. Anyway it's a paper and it's an interesting one.


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## Bcause (5 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I'm sure it depends on the basic mental mindset of each person. But the longer you are chewing on something the more ingrained it gets in your head it seems to me. And I have been there.


 it’s a dark place to be. When they are busted and their mask falls off is a scary thing. When you see the other part of your spouse, trying to make you crazy so you are discredited. Ramping up the acting out, lies, and gaslighting on all cylinders. His giving and taking love away dependent on what light he saw you in, or what light you saw him in. Not understanding why the silent treatment, outbursts, rejection, hate, demeaning words, treating others better than they treat you .. while you are assuming a person who professes to love you really does.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Bcause said:


> it’s a dark place to be. When they are busted and their mask falls off is a scary thing. When you see the other part of your spouse, trying to make you crazy so you are discredited. Ramping up the acting out, lies, and gaslighting on all cylinders to try to put you in a hospital so he can keep your money now that he is exposed. Thankfully I am a strong person. Always had to be. It’s not just the spouse. Both sons attempted suicide. His giving and taking love away dependent on what light he saw you in, or what light you saw him in is so damaging. Not understanding why the silent treatment, outbursts, rejection, hate, demeaning words, treating others better than they treat you .. while you are assuming a person who professes to love you really does.


It's amazing what some people pass out and call love and how long they can keep up the farce.


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## Bcause (5 mo ago)

minimalME said:


> I would think forgiveness, taking responsibility, and overcoming a victim mindset would all be very helpful.


Ultimately yes, it just takes so much longer to get there because you have to newest and what happened first. It literally comes out of left field. I could not run away like I wanted, my legs would not move; I could not breath, my chest felt like it was ripping open from the inside. I fell to the floor and don’t remember for how long. I was in fear of my life.


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## Bcause (5 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> It's amazing what some people pass out and call love and how long they can keep up the farce.


You should market that. That’s the thing. There as sweet and charming most of the time in public and the perfect spouse when they are buttering you up to buy something or do something. When they are benefiting in some way. Doing what they need to do to not loose you. Obviously if you had not been manicured enough you may figure it out sooner than later. I’m just glad I did.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Bcause said:


> You should market that. That’s the thing. There as sweet and charming most of the time in public and the perfect spouse when they are buttering you up to buy something or do something. When they are benefiting in some way. Doing what they need to do to not loose you. Obviously if you had not been manicured enough you may figure it out sooner than later. I’m just glad I did.


Well there is the saying that you don't really know someone until you see what they're like when they aren't getting their way.

Some of the worst people on earth have the ability to be charming because they've learned to con people into believing what they want them to believe so they can get whatever it is they want from them.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Bcause said:


> Ultimately yes, it just takes so much longer to get there because you have to newest and what happened first. It literally comes out of left field. I could not run away like I wanted, my legs would not move; I could not breath, my chest felt like it was ripping open from the inside. I fell to the floor and don’t remember for how long. I was in fear of my life.


Wtf?


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## Bcause (5 mo ago)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Wtf?


Complicated


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

An update. Our current therapy is IFS (Internal Family Systems), a doctrine that basically says there are competing parts of us with protective missions that keep our core better self at bay. In a nutshell, it's a fancy way to explain that there are competing thoughts in your mind for how to deal with situations, many of which are well-intentioned at the time but long-term are a bad thing. Those short-term players can cause a lot of decisions with long-term consequences and you grow to resent and hate the things they caused you to do. IFS believes you need to understand the reasons you did those things, that they were a part of you that needs to be understood and have compassion for. Move towards them, not away. 

For me, this is not any sort of lightning-bolt moment. Anyone with a lot of cognitive dissonance, anyone who thinks "How could I have handled that better? Why did I do that?" is already pretty much there. For my wife, this is really frightening stuff, because she really hates who she was, and the problem is, much/most/all of what she hates is still an unresolved part of her. In IFS, you have "protectors" (exiles and managers) to keep you "safe." One of her protectors is what I call her "Blanket of Shame" which she brings up anytime you get close to her feelings.

We are getting somewhere. The process takes more time than I would like; we've been at this over 3.5 years. But for the first time, she's going back through her diaries, with the therapist, a section at a time, trying to understand herself. She's being more honest; she'd claimed in the past that none of her therapists wanted to know more about them, they asked why she didn't burn them. That's what she said then. Now she's saying "all" of her therapists wanted to see them and this is the first time she's gone over them, reading passages, with a therapist. Kind of a big thing. 

Our therapist thinks the concepts of deceptive sexuality and abuse disorder are too much for her to handle and that I'm looking mostly at a way of addressing my own needs in that regard. He's right, of course, but when you find something that really seems to nail down all the elements, yeah, you want to take the ball and run with it.


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