# What Would You Do?



## BrokenMan (Nov 26, 2011)

I am so glad for this site/forum. The 180 advice really has helped me.

I have managed to gather a lot of info about her OM, which she doesn't know I have. She wouldn't write a letter of NC to him, claiming she didn't have his address. She "proved" to me that she didn't have his number, by deleting them all from both phones. She also helped me unplug and remove the family computer (after claiming she had de-activated her account). We are also due to go to our first marriage counselling session on Wednesday.

Wow. My WW must be really committed to making this marriage work! Wrong.

I have known all along that she has his address, but I didn't say anything. I also knew that her grand gesture of deleting his details from her phone was pure theatrics. And I recently found out that she regularly uses the library computer to send emails etc. Of course I haven't told her any of this. Her mother was supposed to babysit for us on Weds when we go to our session, but now none of her family can help. I also found her secret address book, and lo-and-behold, there are his details. Full name, address, three contact numbers, email address. I now have everything I need.

But what do I do now? I have all of this intel, but I'm not sure what to do with it. Do I write to him warning him off? Do I chance my arm and send an official looking letter to OM's BS? Do I just put all the information on the divorce petition and name him as a co-respondent?

Any help would be great.


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## Sindo (Oct 29, 2011)

Expose him. Then sit back and watch the reaction of a woman who is supposedly maintaining NC with the man.


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## BrokenMan (Nov 26, 2011)

How do I expose him? Call his house phone number and speak to his wife, or send her a letter with all the details? My wife doesn't know I have all this information, and I've been careful not to alter anything (I put the items back as they were etc). So I don't have to worry that he'll have a prepared excuse waiting. I want it to have the best possible effect.


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

If OM is married, she really doesn't have much chance of continuing this affair once OMW is informed of this. Find out how to contact OMW and reveal everything to her. 

Then, the ball falls onto her side to decide what to do. At that point, confront your W again with what you already know. She will have to explain why she continued to lie to you. 

Right now, your W is in her affair fog and cannot think straight to understand the ramification of what she has been doing. She is just living day by day trying to have her EN met by continuing contact with OM one way or the other. It's no use trying to knock any sense in her at this stage. Once she realizes her continued contact is revealed yet again and OM kicks her to the curb, only then she will start to come around to truly face what she has done.


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

Call her and ask her whether she wants to meet you or have you send her all the evidences via internet or mail. Or, if she wants, you can hand deliver it to her. 

Do not let your W know you plan to contact OMW.


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## BrokenMan (Nov 26, 2011)

Thanks for all the advice. I'm beyond the point of revenge etc, but I feel his wife has a right to know. My WW is losing everything, and he is getting away scot-free.

Thanks again.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

sadcalifornian said:


> Call her and ask her whether she wants to meet you or have you send her all the evidences via internet or mail. Or, if she wants, you can hand deliver it to her.
> 
> Do not let your W know you plan to contact OMW.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

Just be prepared for any response from the OMW. Some will:


Be shocked at first, but were already suspicious of their spouse but didn't have any evidence
Not be surprised. They already knew about the affair before you did, but for some reason, didn't expose it to you
Be totally shocked and never respond. Mainly because they're in denial and will want to sweep this under the rug to save their marriage
Be angry because their spouse was warned by yours and they had the chance to spin their story. You will be painted as some crazy person out to ruin their life and marriage.
Not care because they are in the process of divorcing their spouse, or are already cheating themselves.

In any case, it's the right thing to do. Let her know that you have all the solid evidence on hand and will provide them to her if requested to do so. This lets her know that you're not some crazy, jealous husband out to ruin her marriage.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Time for a little reverse gas lighting. If only for an hour or two. Expose to the OMs wife, but tell her not to disclose to him that the information is from you. Then when the POSOM calls your wife to tell her you have exposed him. You say "impossible, you destroyed or deleted his address" How could it be me? Then tell her "it must have been some other woman's husband." And then ask her. "How would you know someone has contacted his wife? Have you been in communication with him? While she sits there mumbling some kind of reason or excuse. Tell her "Let me help you with that. That's when you lower the boom. You show her evidence upon evidence that she is still in contact with him. Then when you have shattered her fantasy. You say, "Oh wait, I have one more document for you. DIVORCE PAPERS. 

That should clear away the fog nicely. Make her pack her sh!t and move to her parents or a friends. Then go complete black out on her. She needs to see her life built on lies crumble in front her. Separate accounts, cancel her cards. Then its your decision on whether or not you go through with the divorce or try and reconcile.


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## BrokenMan (Nov 26, 2011)

Two great pieces of advice. My worry lordmayhem, is that she may be completely clueless about all of this, and knowing how I have felt, and how absolutely crushed I was, I worry that she might have a complete breakdown. She needs to know, but if I do it in person or on the telephone, I will see or hear how badly it affects her, and I'll feel so guilty about it.

And the reverse gas lighting is a great idea. When I work out exactly how I tell OM's wife, I will follow your advice to the letter.

I still cannot get over how common this sort of thing is. And everything my WW does has already been done by so many. I can literally second guess everything she will do, just by reading the posts on here. Hope that makes sense?


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## BrokenMan (Nov 26, 2011)

I forgot to thank you by name for the gaslighting idea Initfortheduration. I re-read my post and I hadn't made it clear. Thanks again to everyone.


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

Well, things usually do not work out as you plan. Such script of reverse gas lighting may work and give you some satisfaction of watching your W's confused reaction, but for now, it would be better that you just concentrate on exposing this to OMW one way or the other. Don't plan things too far ahead as there are so many variables. 

And, as for your feeling guilty for hurting OMW by revealing this, please do not feel that way. Of course, she will likely be shocked, but this is inevitable, and it is not your fault. You really do not have much choice. Not revealing this to OMW would be the stupidest thing you would do, and believe me that there are some BS who refuses to inform OMW and pay terrible price for such inaction.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

She needs a good dose of shock and awe to wake her up.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Remember at the heart of it you are dealing with an immoral act- cheating- by telling and sharing the truth will all the affected parties.

Right now OMW is very affected by this, she's likely being gaslighted by her WH and she is feeling confused alone and worried about her own sanity. You are about to free her from the gas lighting and the self doubt by telling her:

<b>the truth</b>

It's like medicine. You cure the sickness brought on the lies and immoral acts with the truth and time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

So is she still contacting OM? Or she was before and stopped?

Yes, you need to expose the affair to his wife... I will psot the exposure letter. Can you email the wife via FB??? Or call her?

Read below:



Jellybeans said:


> _Here's the thing about exposure: *NEVER GIVE YOUR SPOUSE OR THE OTHER WOMAN/MAN WARNING THAT YOU ARE ABOUT TO EXPOSE. JUST DO IT!!!*
> 
> Why?
> 
> ...


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Do you want to reconcile or do you want a divorce?

If you want to reconcile, I would tell her she needs to move out and begin the separation process, let her know you are not open to discussing reconciliation until she wants to start being truthful in your marriage. I would not divulge any details that you have. Then I would expose to OMW and all her family/friends, etc. I would also do your best to be Captain Standup Husband. The nicer and sweeter and more caring and more gentle you are, the harder it is for her to justify her affair. Be loving and respectful, but do not allow the relationship and deceit to continue without consequences (ie her moving out).

If you want a divorce, don't say a damn thing and just keep gathering evidence for your court case. Depending on your state of course, some states it won't matter and you might as well just hand her the D papers now.

Sorry about your situation. I know how it feels to have your wife tell you she is committed and wants to make it work while she is still in the affair. It really screws with your trust of your own perception. The night before my wife screwed someone else, she told me she loved me and was excited about our future together and we had the best date of our marriage. That next week in counseling she confirmed her commitment to the marriage and how nothing was going on, a few hours before she texted to her EA partner about how they were going to have a 3-day screwfest.

Reconciliation is possible, your wife is deep in the fog, but she's not ready yet. How you react to the situation can either help or jeopardize that process.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

COguy said:


> If you want to reconcile, I would tell her she needs to move out and begin the separation process, let her know you are not open to discussing reconciliation until she wants to start being truthful in your marriage. I would not divulge any details that you have. Then I would expose to OMW and all her family/friends, etc.
> 
> If you want a divorce, don't say a damn thing and just keep gathering evidence for your court case. Depending on your state of course, some states it won't matter and you might as well just hand her the D papers now.


Ding ding ding

:iagree:


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## calif_hope (Feb 25, 2011)

I would gather up all that secret stuff you found, secure it in a safe place and not say a word...act all innocent like she has....don't show your cards.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

BrokenMan said:


> I am so glad for this site/forum. The 180 advice really has helped me.
> 
> I have managed to gather a lot of info about her OM, which she doesn't know I have. She wouldn't write a letter of NC to him, claiming she didn't have his address. She "proved" to me that she didn't have his number, by deleting them all from both phones. She also helped me unplug and remove the family computer (after claiming she had de-activated her account). We are also due to go to our first marriage counselling session on Wednesday.
> 
> ...


You divorce your wife and never tell her why. Just tell her you are done. Let her wonder what you know.


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## BrokenMan (Nov 26, 2011)

Well, I phoned her. She already knew he was messing about (again). It's not the first time and they are already going through separation etc.

I don't know how I feel now. Should I be relieved that he does this often, and that means he's less likely to pursue my WW? Or should I be furious with him and my wife, as they have ripped our family in two for just sex? How can this be? I am really confused now.


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

Well, this is not a very good news. If OM is getting separated or divorced, WW may become more reluctant to sever the tie with him. It really depends on which she values more: the uncertain future with OM or her marriage. 

But, this is really not something within your control. You just have to do what you are supposed to do, which is to confront your W. Since she has taken it deeper underground, she is likely to deny, deny and deny any accusation you throw at her. Therefore, at this stage, you have to see if you can gather any more evidence to prove her continued contact. 

If she is using library computer to contact him, it would be difficult to prove it. You can plant VAR or a tracking device to catch her in conversation with him or driving to see him. It will provably take some considering effort and time on your part.

If I were you, I would confront her again with what you already have, and demand her to choose right now once and for all which she wants. If she is not willing to fully commit to marriage, tell her that you will file for D. Your threat must be sincere and serious. If you show any little lack of resolve, she may call it bluff, making things difficult for you. 

If she claims that she chooses marriage, then you must demand the following without any compromise.

- NC letter, drafted by your W, approved by you, and sent together.
- Total transparancy. She must release all her email account info including secret ones along with passwords.
- Full Confession She must agree to confess all the relevant details of her affairs either verbally or in writing.
- Remorse 


You can also add apology letter to the OMW, exposure/apology to your family/inlaws, post-nup agreement, polygraph, etc..., depending on what you think you can throw in there.

Your goal should not be to save your marriage as you really do not have control over it. It is as much your decision as hers. Your goal is to get out of this limbo stage by forcing her to "choose" what she really wants and make her commit to it. 

If this situation is already bad enough that you don't want to salvage the marriage, then you can bypass everything I wrote above and go straight to the lawyer to draft D paper. 

Good luck.


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## BrokenMan (Nov 26, 2011)

She won't write NC letter, as she claims it breaches my no contact rule! She states that transparency is another word for invasion of privacy, and will not let me anywhere near her mobile phone.

It is so frustrating that she cannot see what she is doing wrong, and how her actions are affecting me and the kids. She is utterly oblivious. She gets caught out time and again by her lies, yet will continue to lie right up until proof is put in front of her.

She plays the victim all the time. Telling friends how awful I am, spinning lies and deceit to everyone. She even swore to her mum that she had done nothing, and claimed it was me sleeping around! I just can't cope with this. How can a person be this devious and nasty?

I don't want to save my marriage. The worst part of this all is that she is the one who cheated and lied, yet she'll get custody of the children, she'll help herself to most of my wages, she'll get our house and she'll also get the sympathy of our family and friends. I get left with nothing. I think this is the first time I have honestly felt depressed. All the hurt and pain I have ever felt in the past are nothing compared to the despair I feel now.

In short, she has shafted me.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

sadcalifornian said:


> Well, this is not a very good news. If OM is getting separated or divorced, WW may become more reluctant to sever the tie with him. It really depends on which she values more: the uncertain future with OM or her marriage.
> 
> But, this is really not something within your control. You just have to do what you are supposed to do, which is to confront your W. Since she has taken it deeper underground, she is likely to deny, deny and deny any accusation you throw at her. Therefore, at this stage, you have to see if you can gather any more evidence to prove her continued contact.
> 
> ...


Problem with confronting now with evidence is that she's already lying and proved she can lie about the affair. If she wants to continue, she's going to see his evidence, get rid of it and then he'll NEVER know if she's really cutting ties.

I'm a proponent of not showing her what evidence he has, and seeing if she comes clean on her own. That way you have a barometer if she's being truthful. At this point, she's still having the affair so I wouldn't even discuss reconciliation. I'd kick her out and tell her she's not welcome back until she wants to start being truthful and commit to the marriage 100%.

I did something similar with my wife. I had a small amount of evidence for an EA. Told her we were done and it was over, if she wanted to be honest I would consider working it out. Literally up until the point she confessed she was still denying anything was going on, acting as if I was overreacting to something.

When she "wanted to talk" she wanted to know what I knew. I told her very clearly, she was going to tell me EVERYTHING, and I would not share any information. I also made it clear that if she tried to lie to me about anything, we would be divorced immediately. Kind of took away her ability to be deceitful about things, not knowing what I knew. She admitted to a PA and a longer and more involved EA than I had expected.


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## Bartimaus (Oct 15, 2011)

BrokenMan said:


> She won't write NC letter, as she claims it breaches my no contact rule! She states that transparency is another word for invasion of privacy, and will not let me anywhere near her mobile phone.
> 
> It is so frustrating that she cannot see what she is doing wrong, and how her actions are affecting me and the kids. She is utterly oblivious. She gets caught out time and again by her lies, yet will continue to lie right up until proof is put in front of her.
> 
> ...


Buddy everything you said about her in this post here of your thread describes my wife to the dotting of the i and the crossing of the t...exactly!
She is hard hearted,has no respect for you at all, is actually picking being a cheat over what you mean to her. To me,she sounds like a woman that will never be faithful to ANY man.
My divorce court was yesterday and let me give you a word of advice..your wife sounds like mine in that she was hell bent on doing her thing no matter who it hurt. You make your own decison as to whether you divorce her or not but if I were you I would divorce her. Trust me, I put up with a woman like you are describing here for over 38 years and she never quit flirting and cheating. She became worse and now that my love for her has died I looked at her at court yesterday and saw a mentally,emotionally,and spiritual monster.


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## BrokenMan (Nov 26, 2011)

Thanks Bartimaus. That is very open and frank advice.

Not only has she hurt me to my core, she will also destroy everything I have built up over the years we have spent together, and take away from me my reasons for living.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

My heart goes out to you bro, I really feel for you. You married a very selfish woman that has spat on her vows, and has demonized you to everyone. This is who she really is, and neither you, nor anyone else will be able to change her. But she'll go through life destroying every relationship she has, and end up being the lonely cat lady on the corner. Unfortunately, you and the children are her victims in all of this.

Infidelity may not affect your divorce but it may affect your child custody and alimony, if any. See if you can fight for your children if your are able to. If not, then find the strength to pick up the broken pieces of your life and start over. My first wife was very similar to yours, but fortunately for me, children weren't yet involved. Still, it was so heartbreaking. I don't care to speak with her for the rest of my life.

She can't take away your reasons for living. If anything, they ARE your reasons for living. You will always be their Dad no matter what. She can't take that away from you. They need you to be strong more than ever.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

If the roles were reversed do you think your wife would have been so kind and accepting to you? How can you believe anything she says to you now and in the future? Good luck.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

BrokenMan said:


> She won't write NC letter, as she claims it breaches my no contact rule! She states that transparency is another word for invasion of privacy, and will not let me anywhere near her mobile phone.
> 
> It is so frustrating that she cannot see what she is doing wrong, and how her actions are affecting me and the kids. She is utterly oblivious. She gets caught out time and again by her lies, yet will continue to lie right up until proof is put in front of her.
> 
> ...


Then she has chosen to end the marriage. The rejection of NC and the idea that she has any right to privacy is proof that the affair is still on, and she has no interest to R.

Next step for you is to get a real shark of a lawyer and have him help you cut her out in the best possible way for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Oh do not tell her you contacted OMW. Buy watch to see if she knows it or chages her behavior around you. It woud mean OM has contacted her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

BrokenMan said:


> She won't write NC letter, as she claims it breaches my no contact rule! She states that transparency is another word for invasion of privacy, and will not let me anywhere near her mobile phone.
> 
> It is so frustrating that she cannot see what she is doing wrong, and how her actions are affecting me and the kids. She is utterly oblivious. She gets caught out time and again by her lies, yet will continue to lie right up until proof is put in front of her.
> 
> ...


I'm going to say something that might sound odd. I know exactly where you are coming from and how you feel, I have been there.

Your wife is ACTING like a monster, but that is because she is deep in the fog of an affair. My wife lied in a way that I could not imagine during her affair, it literally was driving her crazy. I know that the lies make you want to end it, wondering how she could be so deceptive. That is a reasonable decision.

I would consider though that until your wife is truly remorseful and acknowledges what's going on, that she isn't really your wife (let's call her Evil Wife). She is another person entirely, who will continue to be deceptive and uncaring. I likened the experience to Superman 3 where Good Superman and Evil Superman are duking it out.

You might want to consider delaying the decision to end it with Good Wife, while Evil Wife still has control. Not saying to stick it out forever, but don't even try to comprehend right now how your wife could be doing this to you or lying so much. She is so deep in her lies and treachery she can't even see what she's doing or the pain she's causing.

That's why we've been suggesting that you kick her out and don't tell her why. Expedite the process where she ends the affair and realizes she's been an idiot. Up until that point, trying to get her to act rationally will not happen. Anything she says up until the point her fog is over is going to be some perverted lie or treachery.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> Oh do not tell her you contacted OMW. Buy watch to see if she knows it or chages her behavior around you. It woud mean OM has contacted her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


When you do talk about the OMW with your wife be sure and tell her that he has cheated many times. That he cheats on the women he cheats with. Give her plenty to think about. Sow the seeds of doubt. As a matter of fact, I would tell her she is not his only girlfriend.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Consider going over to the forums of *Dads divorce* for there you will find fathers with experience on what worked and didn't work in their divorces.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

No more Mr. Nice Guy. Demand the NC letter by the end of the day. Key Loggers, All the Passwords, I can look at your phone when ever I want and talk with the OMW today.

All these are mistakes I made and wasted months. If you want to Reconcile that is fine but it cannot be done unless you set the boundries and stick to them.


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

BrokenMan said:


> She won't write NC letter, as she claims it breaches my no contact rule! She states that transparency is another word for invasion of privacy, and will not let me anywhere near her mobile phone.
> 
> It is so frustrating that she cannot see what she is doing wrong, and how her actions are affecting me and the kids. She is utterly oblivious. She gets caught out time and again by her lies, yet will continue to lie right up until proof is put in front of her.


If she continues to refuse to write NC letter, then that is her answer. Although she may not verbalize Divorce, that is the path she chooses. So, take no NC as her choosing D path.

Also, believe me that deep inside she knows what she is doing is wrong. She knows. It's just that she just doesn't want to end her relationship with OM. So, she does anything she can to justify her action or inaction(NC), twisting or ignoring logic. 

I say, confront her again and give her an ultimatum. Give her a chance to decide one last time. If she still doesn't relent, you just file for D. Keep your steps simple like that. Don't agonize over something you cannot control. If she doesn't want this marriage, frankly what can you do?


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

sadcalifornian said:


> If she continues to refuse to write NC letter, then that is her answer. Although she may not verbalize Divorce, that is the path she chooses. So, take no NC as her choosing D path.
> 
> Also, believe me that deep inside she knows what she is doing is wrong. She knows. It's just that she just doesn't want to end her relationship with OM. So, she does anything she can to justify her action or inaction(NC), twisting or ignoring logic.
> 
> I say, confront her again and give her an ultimatum. Give her a chance to decide one last time. If she still doesn't relent, you just file for D. Keep your steps simple like that. Don't agonize over something you cannot control. If she doesn't want this marriage, frankly what can you do?


Sometimes it take a D filing for them to come to their senses and realize that they are going to lose everything. Nothing matters to them until they see that paperwork sitting in front of them. It's a tangible consequence of their selfish actions.


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