# Men, I need some advice...



## Choose2love (Jul 28, 2009)

my husabnd who has been withholding sex, again, was still in bed at 5:40. I hadnt heard the alarm so I asked if he was going to work and he replied that he was but was waiting for the snooze alarm as he didnt want to get out of bed yet because it was cold. That's it. He snuggles up to me in bed and occassionally the arm goes around me, but no goodnight kiss, no goodmorning kiss either when he did get up. We wnet to have our morning coffee in silence and when he was ready to go back upstairs he put his hand on my shoulder as he walked by. woohoo, Im jumping with excitement... actually, not really. 

Why do I have to play this "dating game" or waiting game to a man whom I have only been married to for 6 months? He acts like a man who has been married for 30 years and even then, I know of more touching and affectionate gestures for that group. 

and so I wait. I am not negatively responding to his gestures which are few and far between, but I am waiting to respond positively to one that means something. I believe this is what women do when dating... they dont give up sex until the man has "won" her. I now get it.

I guess there is no doubt that he cares about me, but there is no attempt to do something that would mean something to me.

Its like since we got married not only has he stopped trying, but he is just plain not the man he was when we were dating... sexually creative and excited, concerned for me and what I was thinking about (he would go late to work until he could draw me out to share with him, now he would never do that), he would email and text me thoughtful messages, he would snuggle with me on the couch, he approached me for sex each time he saw me (every other night). I think that when those who advise it will not get better only worse, means that any sign of a person's personality that you may see will become more so after you get married. Except I thought that sexually creative man would become more adventuresome in the context of a committed relationship. 

The point of change is within him, even though he thinks its within me. I have changed how I respond to him, I am no longer oozing with an overly affectionate response (like a love sick puppy dog), as positively reinforcement of his gestures has not created more of them. 

BigBadWolf had some advice for men in this situation to be the man and dont be the love sick puppy dog essentially. Does the same work for women? Any advice to get him to do more of those gestures and hopefully more sex? I feel so rejected at this point, and so sex starved that I dont want to say yes to just any advance from him... I did that last week when he said to me "you should take it when you can get it." Please help. Thanks.


----------



## LuckyCharmH (Jan 4, 2010)

Welcome to real life of Marriage
that is something normal. many couples that way for number of reasons. 
1- he might have depression
2- he might be taking medications that have side affects. 
3- some people don't express their feelings like women does. 

4- before getting married, let me guess, you both lived in different places.
5- what you are going through might be normal. talk to him about and ask him if he has any issues he want to talk about it. some people have depressions and don't know about it.


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Have you tried the normal "seductive" things? Buying new lingerie and parading around the house in it? Do you ever initiate sex?

Maybe these things would help, but it really sounds like the problem is on his end.

I would definitely consider depression or medication side effects as possibilities. A trip to the doctor could help.

Something isn't right.


----------



## Choose2love (Jul 28, 2009)

Thanks for answering. I think I need to be little less wordy... I just want to know how to get my husband to stop withholding sex as punishment. Now its hard because he has had an EA (but wont admit it to himself even), he has been abusive (and wont admit that to himself), and the other day he finally admitted to me that he was witholding sex and affection and smiles as a form of punishment (which also is abusive, but he is not abusive in his mind). 

So do I just wait for him to stop punishing me? Im giving him silence from any talk about relationship stuff, so when will he stop? Its funny how I can be so objective helping others out, but when it comes to my situation, I cant see the forrest through the trees.


----------



## Choose2love (Jul 28, 2009)

nice777guy, thanks. He does not like lingerie. I had several pieces, and he said he is totally turned on by me in his t-shirts or button down collar shirt... so that's what I wear. He is not on medication, I used to initiate but have been turned down hundreds of times in the 3 years we have been together... I stopped altogether a few months ago, its just too humiliating. With recent events like last week telling me I should take it when I can get it... I dont even initiate kissing him anymore. What a sh!tty thing to say to your wife.

I think he is depressed but he has OCD and its hard to tell since his OCD makes him get up and do his routine everyday... most depressed persons cant do their normal activites... unless sex is considered part of those normal activities... then I would say yes, he may very well be. He barely smiles anymore, and is ALWAYS complaining about how tired he is. He would never go for that suggestion, and to my knowledge, antidepressants reduce sex drive... and that is the opposite of what needs to happen. If it goes any lower, I will kill myself (no not really).


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

WTF??? What are you being punished for? Did you throw away his baseball cards? Forget to change his diaper?

Tell him to cut out the passive aggressive bull**** and grow up.

Then, go buy the biggest/loudest toy you can find and tell him that if he won't take care of your needs, you'll be needing a few hours alone in the bed tonight at bedtime.


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Sorry if I sound harsh. If you are upset with your partner or really unhappy about something in your life, you may not want to have sex - that's what I thought was happening when I read your first post. 

That is TOTALLY different than telling them that you are punishing them by withholding sex. That is emotional abuse. Call him on it and tell him you won't tolerate it. I don't know if this is a case for marriage counseling, or for him to go see someone on his own.

And depression can take many different forms. I was depressed when my mom died, but didn't recognize it because I mostly felt anger. I thought depression was just moping around, but it can manifest itself in many ways and many of us can still function while suffering from depression.


----------



## Choose2love (Jul 28, 2009)

Believe me, he bought me a toy so I could take care of myself. He has used it on me too, but only a few times. He punishes me for talking about us, for not making a bed, for emailing him about us, for not seeing something his way, for the wind blowing the wrong way... 

he will start out saying that boy he is tired and just wants to go to sleep about 7pm or so as his first announcement of no sex. Or he has gas, or a headache. I finally said to him, if you are really that tired or gassy or in pain... go see the doctor (this was said a while ago and he has not gone).

So its not just me who sees this as wrong behavior?


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

I was editing my last post as you were replying. I think he has issues. Not sure what kind. Scary thing is that his issues will likely keep him from seeing how messed up things are, so getting him to therapy may not be easy.


----------



## Choose2love (Jul 28, 2009)

He wont go to counseling anymore, we went and it made things so much worse because he couldnt believe we were talking about things he was doing in the realtionship. He made promises in therapy to work on and never did them, or did them for a day or 2 and stopped because he felt justified by something he felt I did or said or didnt do.

When I tell him its abuse, he laughs and said I am the abuser... because I slapped his face the morning he told me he would go sleep with other women and I would never know, or one time when he wouldnt let me just walk away in peace I turned around and lifted the covers and said wel Im not going to let you withhold sex... before I could do anything he pushed me off the bed and left me with 2 bruises. I called the poilce and he turned it around onto me that I was trying to rape him. He still balmes me for that night and it was just another night when he siad he was too tired etc. The cops told me to say no to him if he is doing this, or tell him that I would go sleep with someone else and HE wouldnt know about it... they had no idea why he was behaving that way.


----------



## hubby (Aug 10, 2009)

Yes, this is normal, but only because we do not address the issue with each other quickly. You need to talk to him and let him know how you are feeling and what it is EXACTLY that you want him to do. This may seem a bit contrived at first, but I will tell you, as a man, it is really difficult to read a woman's mind. It is hard enough to interpret "woman talk" to "man talk" when communication is open and free. 

I went through the same thing. I am sure my wife and I were feeling the same thing about each other, not enough affection, why does he/she not want me anymore. We start to take the little gestures for granted and resentment builds. Eventually you get to the point where you just don't care anymore. You forget how passionate it once was and you get stuck in a comfortable rut. Fast forward 10 or 20 years later, something happens that makes you remember and feel how you used to feel about your partner and it is so very difficult to get back.

I am not saying this is 100% what is happening to you but it happened to me. The good thing is that we got it back after some really deep and intense conversations/arguments. 

You need to let him know exactly how you feel and exactly what you want.


----------



## triton1984 (Nov 20, 2009)

I wish I had advise...I only have this comment, you have married a child with issues and I would be concerned that he will go from mentally and verbal abuse to significant physical abuse. 

Was he this way before marriage or just after he got the ring on your finger?


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

You are not the abuser. Google "gaslighting."

And telling him you'll sleep with someone else won't help things. Don't stoop to his level.

To me, it isn't good when anyone hits anyone, but a man should NEVER get physicall aggressive with a woman - pushing you out of bed is much worse in my eyes than you slapping him. Don't beat yourself up about that one - but try not to do it again because it gives him more ammo.

If he won't go to counseling, maybe you should start going by yourself. Sorry to hear this is happening. Something isn't right with him.


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

hubby said:


> Yes, this is normal, but only because we do not address the issue with each other quickly. You need to talk to him and let him know how you are feeling and what it is EXACTLY that you want him to do. This may seem a bit contrived at first, but I will tell you, as a man, it is really difficult to read a woman's mind. It is hard enough to interpret "woman talk" to "man talk" when communication is open and free.
> 
> I went through the same thing. I am sure my wife and I were feeling the same thing about each other, not enough affection, why does he/she not want me anymore. We start to take the little gestures for granted and resentment builds. Eventually you get to the point where you just don't care anymore. You forget how passionate it once was and you get stuck in a comfortable rut. Fast forward 10 or 20 years later, something happens that makes you remember and feel how you used to feel about your partner and it is so very difficult to get back.
> 
> ...


Hubby - go back and re-read her posts again. I don't think this is the same as the "taking each other for granted" phase.


----------



## Choose2love (Jul 28, 2009)

Its too late for that one as I did say that to him, but I didnt mean it and he knows I cant cheat. I had an open marriage contractin my previous marriage and still couldnt go out with someone else! SO he knew when I said it it was just trying to get back at him. 

I apologized and took responsibility for my part in all those awful times. I am also giving him the silence from talking about us that he requested... I just want the man I know is in there back. Im not asking anything of him he cant do, because Im asking for the same things he used to do, so I know he can. I will seriously consider the depression as his anger has been wild since we got married... maybe being married for the first time (losing his bachelorhood at 35 yrs old) has depressed him.

Thanks.


----------



## hubby (Aug 10, 2009)

nice777guy said:


> Hubby - go back and re-read her posts again. I don't think this is the same as the "taking each other for granted" phase.


Yeah, I jumped in too soon and did not read the rest of the posts. 

Sounds like you are trying your best to communicate and he is just plain being stupid. Sorry, I don't have much advise other than don't let him take advantage of you and stand your ground for what you deserve.


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

You may want to check out depressionfallout.com and the book Depression Fallout.

The website has a message board - people there may be better able to relate to what you are experiencing and give you better advice.


----------



## Choose2love (Jul 28, 2009)

Triton, he was not this way before we got married. He said no to me for sex, but it wasnt as punishment back then... he just didnt want to as much as I did. It has been taken to a completely new level since we got married 6 months ago.

The only thing I can think of that was present before we got married (other than 1 slap in my face when he was drunk and passed out again right after, he didnt even remember doing it) was self before others mentality. He was so guarded about being right... but not to the point where he was being abusive like this. 

I guess there really is no advice for trying to get him to be more affectionate if we arent dealing with normal circumstances.


----------



## Choose2love (Jul 28, 2009)

Thanks for the website!


----------



## triton1984 (Nov 20, 2009)

You mentioned he was a bachelor until 35 in one post and a self before others mentality in another....was he ready to get married or did he feel that he had to or risk loosing you? 

I married my HS sweetheart at 21 after dating for 4 years and I married her at that time because I felt I must. First year was a little rough, although nothing of what the two of you are going through.


----------



## Dryden (Jan 5, 2010)

I can't shed any light on this other than there definitely sounds like somethings not quite right with him. Whether its depression, bi-polar, etc or what I don't know, but he's certainly not responding like a person would normally be expected to. 

On the counseling end, it's unfortunate, but nobody will ever make a true change until they believe they need it themselves. Individual counseling for yourself may be a good first step to figuring out the best way to attack this problem. Maybe it needs to go as far as some kind of intervention?


----------



## Choose2love (Jul 28, 2009)

Triton, he was the one pushing for the marriage. In fact, I asked if we could wait since we needed to resolve what was then only him saying no for sex... didnt know it was to punish me. He promised he would stop saying no to sex, in therapy.

Anyway, he was the one who wanted to marry me... I wanted to be with him but wanted to know that mutually aquirable sex was going to be a part of our marriage.


----------



## Choose2love (Jul 28, 2009)

Dryden, yes, he needs to see his part otherwise change wont happen. Im all for him being the dominant man and calling shots, but I also want to be able to seduce him and have him say yes to me. I dont think that is asking too much. I want him to be flirtatious with me like he was last April even... not that long ago... he was swooping me up in hugs and kisses in front of the kids, now all they see is silent husband around me. They need to see us happy. (my kids from previous marriage).


----------



## Dryden (Jan 5, 2010)

Has there been any other big life changes recently? Other than getting married? Sounds like there is possibly some repressed anger/stress/resentment that he's maybe dealing with?


----------



## Me'N'My'Girl (Jan 10, 2010)

choose2love, my heart goes out to you.unfortunately i have no words of wisdom,but it looks like there's something seriously wrong with him.its a very complex situation and maybe you going to counselling will shed some light as to whats going on.


----------



## Choose2love (Jul 28, 2009)

I have had several miscarriages and he wants a child. I asked him about that and he said no, it is only me talking about our relationship or contacting him period. He said if I stop that I will get what I want. I think he doesnt really know what I want though as when I stopped talking to him pretty much alltogether a few months back because he asked me to do this to get what I wanted then as well, he thought we were in bliss. It lasted about 6 weeks and yes, from his side we were in bliss, from my side I was in a lock down... dont speak, dont ask for sex, dont contact him, make sure I clean up the house every hour of every day. It was so horrible, I did not know if I was going to be able to go away with him on a birthday trip I had planned for him. 

Now I dont do that anymore. I clean what needs to be cleaned... anything that is part of his OCD, he gets to clean as that is not my problem. I am in individual therapy with our marital therapist as I just continued with her when he stopped. She worked hard with me to get me to see that those demands were his issue to deal with not mine.

She gets stumped when we meet as well, on how to get him to open up emotionally or just simply have sex that is not about control. 

Its almost like he behaves like a narcissist, but being trained as a social worker, I dont want to even look down that road of possibility... as there would be little if any chance for resolve.

I just thought I would throw the question out for help on getting my husband to have sex with me, but all the typical stuff doesnt work.


----------



## Mommybean (Jan 22, 2009)

I quite honestly think you MAY need to accept the fact that there IS little if any chance to resolve this situation. No matter what hoops of his you jump thru successfully, there will ALWAYS be other hoops that he will say need to be conquered before you get what you want. Because of that, you will NEVER get what you want.


----------



## artieb (Nov 11, 2009)

What would happen if you told him "I know I am not perfect, and I'm willing to try to improve. But you aren't perfect either, and I need to know that you will try to improve. You do things that make me mad, and I haven't always responded well to that. And I know I do things that make you mad; you don't respond well to that. I'm willing to be a better match for you if you'll be a better match for me. If you aren't willing, then we should end this now, because doing this for the next 40 years just isn't going to work out."


----------



## chuckf75 (Sep 6, 2009)

I am afraid he might need to know that you are prepared to leave if it does not get better. Are you or are you willing to live this way forever? How would he react to this?


----------



## Choose2love (Jul 28, 2009)

Im going to repond carefully as I know he is reading these posts now, and dont want to leave you hanging either. Chuck75, I dont think he thinks I will leave, even if I say so. I would like not to, but if the "hoops" mommybean is refering to dont cease it will have to be considered. 

The biggest block for us right now is the image of me that he has created in his head based on his perspective of us and me. His perspective is created so he cant see what he has done and how he has acted... because he cannot view himself in a negative light other than that which he allows himself to know about. I guess its to painful or scary for him to think he could do those things?? It allows him to jump to the wrong conclusion quickly and get defensive when no defense is needed and justify not allowing me access to sex and affection when he chooses... he just doesnt get that couples say yes to each other even when they dont want to because they see the need in their spouse... no is said just to annoy or hurt or punish... its said with apathy towards the spouse as it takes apathy to not care about their needs... apathy is the opposite of love. Instead, its easier to view me as a sex fiend, which I hardly call wanting 4-7 times a week a sex "fiend" maybe the higher end of the spectrum... I like the exercise and the closeness it provides... it keeps my body working at peak and I also stay trimmer! Its not marathon sex... it can be done as quick as 5 minutes... not like Im asking for long sessions... that frequently. I see it as a daily vitamin... sure not really doing harm if you miss a day or 2, but then it starts to add up and you have to play catch up. Why wouldnt I want to have it regularly... its also the best stress reducer around... drug free! He knew this before marrying me, if he thought that was too much for him than he should have looked elsewhere and caused us both less stress... he promised me it wouldnt be an issue... but instead there are the hoops that mommybean mentioned.

Artieb, we have had similar talks, but he wont take responsibility for his part, and expects me to take my part and responsibility for the parts he doesnt see as his own as well. I have had to accept those things and risk him thinking he can further walk all over me, which is what I feel I am allowing. I have to then, make certain to stand my ground on other areas. I 100% believe that if he could accept responsibility for those things he doesnt BELIEVE he did, but did, we would be 100% ok. I dont know if there is a problem admitting them because hes scared I will use it against him? I wouldnt, I would be thrilled he would have the maturity to accept that. 

My therapist thinks there is no way to move forward in this relationship until he admits what he has done and apologizes. We cant base how we view each other on lies to protect his ego. I cant forgive him until he allows me to, or can I forgive that he cant allow himself to see it? I just want it to be behind us. Gotta run now. Im going to continue over in the private section unless I feel its something he can read. Thanks again


----------

