# I think we're back together! YAY! (but...)



## LonnieHere

I can't leave comments on my other thread so i figured i'd start a new one. i hope that's OK.

Anyway, I think my boyfriend and I are back together!! We've had a major talk and some phone convos and i think everything is going to be ok. He didn't rant or shout. He was actually pretty level. He said (first time since this ting's come up) that he loved me and wants to continue loving me. He brought up some of the really good times we've had together so we talked about that.

I took the advice that LongWalk gave me. He said to tell my boyfriend that being with the other guy DID mean something - it made me realize that i didn't find that guy attractive at all. ANd you know that really is the truth. When my boyfriend and i got intimate it really did feel wonderful, special, and different!

I apologized for doing the multi dating - that was pretty crappy, i really know that now (and also about not telling him about it - worse). I told him that was the old me and i'm never going back. The new me is what he has now AND he helped me alot to get there.

We love each other and he said it over and over during our covos and of course i said it too and i meant it. He's the one for me even and i'm the one for him even though i hurt him. Anyway we kissed but no fooling around - he didn't really want to. That's OK i was completely fine with that.

What is not OK is obviously that he's hurt and his pride took a major hit. He said like alot of you said that when he found out he thought he was a fool and that i didn't find him all that attractive but was with him cause he's a "pretty good guy" and he "has a life." He used those words. I let him talk alot cause he wanted to but i didn't really reply because i really don't know what to say. Alot of you said it was wrong to go down the road i mentioned about "doing it right" with him. So i didn't go there or give any answers.

The second thing is, he figures the other guy has bragged to his friends and that "everbody knows." And that makes him angry and frustrated and makes him feel small. He doesn't want to get any "looks" from the other guy. And of course he absolutely hates that an "a--hole" (his word) was "intimate" (not his word) with me. And that it's a guy he hates who counts notches and that i was just another notch to him and that he'll go around telling people how he "had" "my guy's" girl . I have no idea how to deal with that at all - so if i'm not pushing it maybe some advice.

Last thing is the past. He wants to have a convo. He said he'd answer anything i asked and he would answer anythng i asked. He's also really focusing on the jerk. He wants details like how many times, where, when, things done and all that. So that's a land mine - i don't know what to do there either

Also, just to answer some questions that multiple people asked:

I'm 29 and he is 34.

He found out from a good friend of his and his buddy got it from somebody else and I don't want to get into it any more than that. 

We're both office professionals but in different industries and that's all i want to say on that one. The bad thing is he's in the same industry as the jerk but not the same company. And unfortunately they do see each other (but not too often) at business events. I don't want to say any more.

i don't consider myself promiscuous but i haven't been as selective in the past as i should have been. I went for guys who were womanizers or players i guess. FYI, none of them changed with me. But hey, i've learned my lesson.

People asked about our "numbers." Somebody threw out the number 50. I'm nowhere close to that but it's on the high side. I don't know my boyfriend's number but he's been in long term relationships all his life and he does not have the traits of my past men. Tht's a long winded way of saying i'm guessing his number is low, maybe 4-5. Mine is like really higher than that

But *like i said at the beginning the WOW news is that we're back together and he still loves me (and i love him back). *Just have to deal with the issues i mentioned properly and delicately. Thanks


Thanks


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## Faithful Wife

Sounds good! My H and I have both had to endure some uncomfortable experiences (when we were first dating, and even some more recently...) and I think if things are right between you two, it will be ok. If things are not right, then something like this will break you up. If you two come out of the strong. then that's great.


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## WorkingOnMe

Congratulations Lonnie. I think you've got a tough road ahead, but this is a good sign for you. The only advise I can offer is to be honest when he asks his questions. If he can get past being 2nd choice, then he'll eventually work it out in his head and get past it.


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## LonnieHere

This is to WorkingOnMe:

*My man - is - not - my - second - choice.*

My boyfriend has a hundred GREAT traits that the other guy doesn't have and never will have.

Ok, i slept with the other guy faster. The jerk was a wrong guy. And it was wrong to do it when i did. That does NOT make the jerk the first choice!


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## SunnyT

In your boyfriend's mind it might.


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## MicroStorm

It's when I read things like this that I pray I never have to deal with the dating BS ever again.

That said, the true test of time will be not whether he loves you today, but how he reacts days, weeks, months from now. Most likely this will steam, simmer, and boil over at some point. A little argument weeks from now and one of you will take a jab, and this will come back again like a raging inferno.

If nothing else, he has major leverage on you now...


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## Faithful Wife

Lonnie...I agree with Sunny. It might already be in your bf's mind (forever) that he was second choice. Just realize that you don't know how he will have to process this...he might not be able to and if he can't...well, just work on it and hope that he can. But if he can't, he just can't. People take these things in differently.

I am sorry I don't know the answer to this, are you saying he didn't know you were mutli-dating when you first met? He thought you two were exclusive from date one?


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## See_Listen_Love

LonnieHere said:


> This is to WorkingOnMe:
> 
> *My man - is - not - my - second - choice.*
> 
> My boyfriend has a hundred GREAT traits that the other guy doesn't have and never will have.
> 
> Ok, i slept with the other guy faster. The jerk was a wrong guy. And it was wrong to do it when i did. That does NOT make the jerk the first choice!


The problem is not the speed of sleeping with one of them. 
You have the right to choose the moment for yourself, you are not obligated to the persons you date.

Not the dating of two people at the same time, as long as that was clear to all of you (Which I doubt).

Not even the sleeping with one while dating the other.
Your apparent multi-dating culture makes that 'normal'. 
But he did not know this, and it could be a big problem, but seen the timeline, and that you slept with the jerk during the week you had your first dates with him, and after one week ended this situation (I hope you did), this could also be explained as part of your 'lifestyle'.

But the fact that you deal with the bad boys different that with the nice guys is the big problem.

He will feel very bad because he is the nice guy in this relation triangle, and you display the 'women love bad guys' behavior with the jerk. That is emasculating to him, that is something he always will have in his mind.

He really needs a nice woman who is not having this Jekyll and Hide personality. 

You need to admit to and own your 'bad boy' preference for sex, and your 'nice guy' preference for a husband.


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## rrrbbbttt

Lonnie; On the convo, your boyfriend is having mind movies of what you and the OM did. The imagination is a wonderful but also a terrible thing and in this case your boyfriend is thinking the worst and it will stick with him for a long time. How you address this will determine a lot of how your future relationship goes.

Questions he may/will have:

Did you do something with the OM that you have refused to do with your boyfriend?

How many times did you do it with the OM? If it did not mean anything why did you do it multiple times?

Did you ever put me off for a date and go out and do it with the OM?

If you boyfriend wants the answers simply avoiding answering or putting of the convo will only push this further down the road, it will come up again.

You need to find out if your boyfriend can deal with the answers, if he cannot it will continue to raise its ugly head during your relationship and can YOU deal with that?


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## samyeagar

Lonnie, this is a good first step, but it is going to be a difficult road for you two. There are several of us men here who will be able to give you some very good insight into what is likely going on in your boyfriends mind, and I am sure we will be here to chime in.

I think your boyfriend in this situation is a very good candidate for what is called Retroactive Jealousy. While it is called "Jealousy" it really doesn't have much to do with jealousy at all, but rather feelings of being second best, and difficulties reconciling the word you say with the very different actions you showed. This is something that can be worked on by both of you, especially if you take the time to really understand his feelings and work on finding and eliminating triggers.

It is also very important to know that while he is calm at this point, he is likely to show anger, hurt, when those triggers happen. You are going to have to try very hard not to minimize his feelings in this and help him feel safe to express them. Try to also realize that while he may lash out, that he is not necessarily passing judgement on you, he likely doesn't think less of you, he likely doesn't think you are a slvt or anything like that.

What he is seeing in his mind is you going back to this other man for sex, and he is having mind movies of what you did with the other man. The details he does not know, he will fill in with his own imagination, and they will not be minimizing things. On the contrary.

This is going to be a test for your relationship, and the fact that he is back and talking is a good sign, but the choices you make now, the words you choose now can make all the difference.

As I said, there are several of us men here who have been in and still are in the same mind space your boyfriend is right now. We can give good insight, but please, if you want us to help you, you are going to have to answer the questions we ask, and answer honestly and fully. We won't ask for things that are unnecessary, even if you can't see why it would be important, if we ask, it is.

We want to help you because for some, a success story in this would be great for a lot of people who go throught this same thing.


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## manfromlamancha

Lonnie, I am glad that you and your bf are back together again. I was in a similar situation with my wife when we were just dating so I am going to give you my (possibly his) view of this and the difficulty with handling it.

OK so firstly, in my case the OM and I were equally attractive but different. We were all very young (very early 20s) and I was not prone to jumping in the sack with just any girl and needed to have a connection. The OM was a known player and completely unfaithful to anyone he was in a relationship with (funnily enough today he has settled down after a few marriages and quite a sprinkling of children everywhere). 

So I couldn't understand what my wife was thinking and it took me many years to come to terms with the fact that she was beautiful, young, free and single at the time even though she was going out with me. I found out through a third party because in fact the OM was bragging about it to mutual friends which made the hurt even worse. *However, when I asked her, she did not lie to me which I really appreciated.* She told me that she was attracted to him and that he wanted to have sex at a time when both were experiencing high attraction to each other and it felt OK to her to go ahead. She now realises that she would not have done that if she knew how she was going to feel about me.

*She also made sure that I understood that once she fell in love with me (and I woo differently), she was gone hook, line and sinker!* There could be nobody else for her after that and she has demonstrated it time and time again throughout our 30 year marriage despite there being several hiccups along the way and one case of very inappropriate behaviour and possibly more, very early on in the relationship (which is a separate story). However I had no doubt that she was crazy about me mainly because she made sure that she not only said it but showed it in her actions many many times.

When I asked what they did and how many times, she told me but not in any graphic detail so as to upset me unless I wanted to know. What she has showed me is that very shortly after, *there were many things that she did with me for the first time and there was absolutely nothing that she did with him that she did not do with me many times over*.

Finally, I couldn't get over the idea that was stuck in my head that I was a safer bet (marriage material) especially when we got married shortly after that (we married young - I was 24). *The surprising part that proved I was not considered the reliable safer bet was when she was more than ready to walk out of the marriage taking nothing when I didn't display enough affection* and that is all she has ever asked me for. She was ready to walk away from someone she was crazy in love with because she felt that he (me) was not in love with her. This eventually got my thinking right and I have been learning from her ever since!

As I said, this may not be the case with your bf, but *it is what got me through the first couple of years of our relationship* as I was feeling like your bf is/was. *Her not lying ever and showing me not just telling me.* I believed her when she said she enjoyed the sex at the time because it felt right but there was no love connection and she eventually realised that he was a [email protected]! She told me that she didn't do it with me because it didn't seem to be my style and also that it didn't feel right because our whole courtship was completely different (not rushed, deeper, more fun and most of all, more challenging to her). But once we started doing it, we went for broke!

Anyway hope this helps - my tuppence worth!


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## owl6118

LonnieHere said:


> I took the advice that LongWalk gave me. He said to tell my boyfriend that being with the other guy DID mean something - it made me realize that i didn't find that guy attractive at all. ANd you know that really is the truth. When my boyfriend and i got intimate it really did feel wonderful, special, and different!


Good. You are going to have to go through this conversation many times as he processes it, just keep circling back to this.



LonnieHere said:


> I apologized for doing the multi dating - that was pretty crappy, i really know that now (and also about not telling him about it - worse). I told him that was the old me and i'm never going back. The new me is what he has now AND he helped me alot to get there.



Yes, yes, yes. He needs to believe in this change, that the new you wants him first and most, and he can be safe in trusting you. Good answer, well done.




LonnieHere said:


> We love each other and he said it over and over during our covos and of course i said it too and i meant it. He's the one for me even and i'm the one for him even though i hurt him. Anyway we kissed but no fooling around - he didn't really want to. That's OK i was completely fine with that.
> 
> What is not OK is obviously that he's hurt and his pride took a major hit. He said like alot of you said that when he found out he thought he was a fool and that i didn't find him all that attractive but was with him cause he's a "pretty good guy" and he "has a life." He used those words. I let him talk alot cause he wanted to but i didn't really reply because i really don't know what to say. Alot of you said it was wrong to go down the road i mentioned about "doing it right" with him. So i didn't go there or give any answers.
> 
> The second thing is, he figures the other guy has bragged to his friends and that "everbody knows." And that makes him angry and frustrated and makes him feel small. He doesn't want to get any "looks" from the other guy. And of course he absolutely hates that an "a--hole" (his word) was "intimate" (not his word) with me. And that it's a guy he hates who counts notches and that i was just another notch to him and that he'll go around telling people how he "had" "my guy's" girl . I have no idea how to deal with that at all - so if i'm not pushing it maybe some advice.


Validate his perspective, acknowledge the truth in it, empasize your change. "i know. I feel awful about it and I would give anything not to have done it. But I am not the woman who made that decision any more. With you I have learned what love can and should be and I will never settle like that again."




LonnieHere said:


> Last thing is the past. He wants to have a convo. He said he'd answer anything i asked and he would answer anythng i asked. He's also really focusing on the jerk. He wants details like how many times, where, when, things done and all that. So that's a land mine - i don't know what to do there either


Just be honest. Answer with truthful but objective and 'neutral' not colorful words. And its ok to ask that you need his help in doing this--that he needs to commit to, intiially, taking in what you say, and not punishing you for the answers. 




LonnieHere said:


> He found out from a good friend of his and his buddy got it from somebody else and I don't want to get into it any more than that. [


We really all figured as much. Makes it not unreasonable that he kinda flipped out for a while, eh? Be compassionate with him.


It sounds like you are on the right track. More importantly, in this post, for the first time I begin tomsee you showing why and how younlove your guy. Show him the same. That's all he really needs-to beleive that your love for him is strong and exclusive, and enough for him to open his heartbto you again.

Good luck, and congratulations to you for asking for advice, and a real tip of the hat to you for being willing to sift out the well-intentioned and helpful ideas from the brickbats you got. I wish you well.


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## sparkyjim

See_Listen_Love said:


> But the fact that you deal with the bad boys different that with the nice guys is the big problem.
> 
> He will feel very bad because he is the nice guy in this relation triangle, and you display the 'women love bad guys' behavior with the jerk. That is emasculating to him, that is something he always will have in his mind.
> 
> He really needs a nice woman who is not having this Jekyll and Hide personality.
> 
> You need to admit to and own your 'bad boy' preference for sex, and your 'nice guy' preference for a husband.



This is a really good observation. And I think that there might be even more to this.

In other words, can her boyfriend expand his repertoire enough to lose the "nice guy" and embrace enough of the "bad boy" to keep her interested....

But you can't suggest this to him, because he already has a sore spot about this - it will only remind him of what happened with the A hole guy.

And because he won't be able to change will she be able to stay interested in this relationship...?

Sure, for now she is interested - because she sees a "husband" type and doesn't want to lose him. But once she is back in the relationship will there be enough interest for her to stay?

I am just thinking out loud here... she says she has changed.

In my own experience I know that I have not changed - I just know that I am happiest with my wife. I know that I can meet all of her needs and she can meet all of mine. Maybe she means that... I don't know.


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## alexm

First of all, I'm glad he came back, truly!



LonnieHere said:


> The second thing is, he figures the other guy has bragged to his friends and that "everbody knows." And that makes him angry and frustrated and makes him feel small. He doesn't want to get any "looks" from the other guy. And of course he absolutely hates that an "a--hole" (his word) was "intimate" (not his word) with me. And that it's a guy he hates who counts notches and that i was just another notch to him and that he'll go around telling people how he "had" "my guy's" girl . I have no idea how to deal with that at all - so if i'm not pushing it maybe some advice.


You don't have to deal with this at all, it's really his issue, and his alone. Nothing you can do or say will change his mind about how he feels.

He does have to understand (on his own, without your help) that pretty much all women at one point or another have been a "notch" to some guy. The same can be true with the sexes reversed, as well. Perhaps he's been a notch to some woman at some point. There's no escaping it, those people exist, and they sleep with people, and they brag about it afterwards.

In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter. He desires a woman who has not had a past, and if he loves you, he'll get over it. My wife has had more experience than I have, whereas I've been "long term relationship guy" my whole life. It was difficult for me at first, but I got over it relatively quickly.



LonnieHere said:


> This is to WorkingOnMe:
> 
> *My man - is - not - my - second - choice.*
> 
> My boyfriend has a hundred GREAT traits that the other guy doesn't have and never will have.
> 
> Ok, i slept with the other guy faster. The jerk was a wrong guy. And it was wrong to do it when i did. That does NOT make the jerk the first choice!


Now this is where your differences will lie and you two will have to really work on. Unfortunately, he was your second choice, and that's okay. Guys like him (and me) ARE women's second choices, once they've got the bad-boys out of their system and they figure out that stability and attention and loyalty and all that are what's actually important in a mate. But all of us, men and women, are designed to be attracted to the mate who exhibits the most alpha traits, the good physical genes, etc. so as to carry on these genetic traits for further generations. Tall, well-built, handsome and confident for men. Hips, boobs and sexuality for women. Those genes are much less important today then they were when we were living in caves and had to outrun predators and hunt for food, or ensure our species survival by having 25 offspring. The genes that are important now are intelligence, reasoning, and other less visible things.

So the "nice guy", or the "beta male" (as you will hear on this site a lot) IS the second choice, but they do make the best long term mates for obvious reasons, and provide the best genes for future generations.

As an aside, those who believe the beta male is a species that needs to disappear are wrong. It's only ever an issue when the beta male is partnered with an alpha female ie. one who is still wired to be attracted to "bigger, faster, stronger" and has not evolved beyond that point in her life yet. When two people are on the same page in terms of what is important, or even "manly", there IS no beta male any longer. I can hold my wife's purse and still be manly.

My opinion is that those folks who are being told to "stop being a beta male" are not in the wrong. They are just with the wrong woman. Their women are attracted to the alpha male, but also desire the stability and drama-free existence the beta male brings. Yet the desire for the caveman-type is still too strong. It's why nerds don't get dates in high school - the female desire for the caveman type is still too strong at that age, and eventually it wanes, changing into a desire for a good PARTNER, with things like height, athleticism, etc. becoming secondary. Some people call it settling, but don't be fooled. Those who call it that haven't fully evolved to the point where the actual traits that are important in a mate are front and center just yet (and they may never).

This is important to remember, as your bf is not the alpha, and does not sound like he ever has been. You've been historically attracted to alphas (like most people have), so this is a change for you. This may be the first time his beta tendencies have come out, and you need to learn to not discount them. This may have made him less attractive to you, even if it's subconscious at this point. Women want confidence, and he's not showing any right now in regards to the other guy and you. Don't pigeonhole him for feeling like that, or let it ruin your image of him.

The huge irony of this is that Mr. Alpha who you slept with and who bragged about you also shows little confidence by doing this. Ask yourself, why would he brag about his conquests? Confident men don't brag, and they don't whine - they don't need to do either.

In short, OP, you have to make sure you're at that point in your life before you declare your BF your soul mate. If you definitely have moved on from the alpha male desire stage and you're willing to reconcile that, you should be good.


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## manticore

I want to be honest here, I have mixed feelings about your case, is obvious to me that you love your boyfriend, I even remember you fighting users that called him doormat or that he was not as good looking as the jerk.

Is also obvious that you are not a self centered egoistical person, you looked for ways to heal your relationship and you even took advices and implemented them in your current situation, so even with your past behavior I think your are good woman who cares for his partner and who takes initiative to fix problems and probably someone worth of building a solid relationship with.

that said, my mixed feelings come from the situation your BF is going trough, see for him to be able to be with you again he will have to kill a part of his pride as man and manhood and accept that the jerk in the end won over him (won sounds stupid right, after all what he won?)

see as many of us guessed your boyfriend found because the jerk made it public, he don't just bragged with his friends but also with people that knew wouldl eventually tell your boyfriend, his intention was to hurt him to show him that what is a treasure and valuable to your BF for the jerk is just a notch that he used for his pleasure and left as seconds to him (*sounds crude and mean? but I assure you that is how the jerk made it seems to emasculate your boyfriend*).

Probably your BF saw himself as the nemesis or opposite of the jerk (and not just him but also the people that were around them and that knew about their confrontational situation, after all it was that known the rivality between them that his friend felt compelled to tell him the rumors that the jerk was spreading) , the good guy who works hard, who is ethical and do what is right, unlike the jerk who is unethical, corrupt and a womanizer, the problem is that from now on, in your boyfriend's movie the bad guy won and will win, he had the girl have fun with her while the good were on the side waiting for a chance and he finally had his chance when the bad guy got bored and left her for him (I know that you and many women here just don't get it, I saw your and many of their posts and were more worried of how unforgiving your boyfriend was about something that is common now days and how he was the special person, than the fact that he and this guy have a long rivality and mutual hate).

so this is my worry that your boyfriend will have to suppress a very primal part of masculinity to be with you, he will have to accept that the jerk will always have over him the fact that he had his girl before him (even when he dated her first) and that he left her because for him was not important. this kind of acceptance could make him as other users have said, lose his self respect and self value and even change him in a personality level.

As I told you in my first post ( that I now I see was right in the spot regarding this jerk) the jerk will not stop bragging and messing with your boyfriend, as long as he is in your lives in anyway your relationship will never heal completely. 

my advice again is that if you want a full recovery from this, you just can not have the presence of this other guy in your lives, and if that means that your BF need to change jobs and even industry then he might have to do it, and this is why is important to both of you to realize how committed are to you to save your relationship.

If I sound mean or judgmental, I am really sorry, I am trying to give you a crude perspective of how we men see this situation and feel about it, as I told you before (in my first post) I have a similar situation regarding the fack that I know a jerk with whom I have a similar rivality as your boyfriend have with this other guy and is hard to me to even think what I would do in your boyfriend's shoes.


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## LongWalk

Good job, Lonnie!

My guess is your boyfriend has enjoyed sex with you a lot. And you have been close to him emotionally, so he couldn't just walk away despite the hurt.

I think that regarding his offer to tell all about his past, well, that is clearly a covert contract. What he is really saying is that he wants to know about your past. I don't think it will help you relationship to go into the details. I suggest telling him that you don't want to know anything about his past. Say that you hope he had good memories. You like the idea of him being happy and growing up as a man. You are not jealous.

As to your past, if he presses you, tell him about losing your virginity, something that happened long ago and is not connected to your later broader experiences.

Men are often pretty simple. If you have a super meal together, have good make up sex, and then fall asleep together like siamese twins, your relationship can be better than it was. Perhaps you have been lucky because now you know how important it is not to take things for granted. A lot of couples don't know that they have work on themselves and their relationships/marriages.

Maybe you should buy him a shirt or some other piece of clothing. 

Did you have plans to do new stuff together? Go skydiving? Learn to scuba dive? Visit Quebec together?

Every shared experience is something that no guy from the past had.


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## DoF

I want to say congrats, but I'm not sure if this relationship will go places and this entire situation will probably take a toll on it at some point.

He will ALWAYS have resentment about this, FOREVER. Fact that he is asking details about the sexual activities you had with him confirms that.

Heck, I'm not really sure if OP should even pursue a relationship with this guy. 

Now he is asking about your past? Jesus, that's rather immature of him. Does he realize what he is in for. And are you actually thinking about sharing that info? OUCH. Lady should never EVER share her past, it will only do further damage.

That cloud will ALWAYS hang over your heads.

It's also pretty clear that you guys are both thinking with your hearts vs your brains (especially him!!!).

I do wish you good luck and hope everything works out though.


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## happy as a clam

Lonnie,

I think it's great that you've worked it out thus far. It sounds like he was very hurt, but loves you enough to try to let go of the hurt.

Having said that, I honestly would not go down the road of discussing past sexual encounters, other than to answer his questions about THIS particular guy you slept with.

I wouldn't discuss numbers (how many lovers you had vs. how many he had), details, positions, or anything else like that. I just don't see it being productive and will only add to the mind movies in his head.

Your past is your past. He already knows you had more lovers than he did. I honestly think the only explanation you owe him is about the jerk and your lying about it. Sounds like that's all he really wants to know about anyway.


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## Caribbean Man

Lonnie,
I am very glad that you got back together with him,I always thought you would. 
If you had read my posts, I probably was one of the few people on your threads saying that I think there is still hope for both of you.

I'll give just a recap of what I said:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...found-out-about-past-guy-who-he-hates-30.html

04.03.2014 , 04:18 PM Post # 443

"_I know I'm going against the grain of the thread here, but somehow i don't think it's too late for her and her boyfriend.

She made a miscalculation in the past.
But I've seen much worse transgressions forgiven between lovers.

We all know that love can make all of us do really strange things.Sounds to me like they were both in love.

What she needs to do quickly is dump all of that " negotiating exclusivity" and all other such rubbish ideas from her head, own her part of the problem and talk to her boyfriend like a person who's seriously thinking of a lifetime of commitment.

I don't think the boyfriend is an unreasonable person , neither does she sound like an unreasonable person.

*If they are both honest with each other from here onward, then there is plenty of hope for them in the future...*"_

..............................................................................................


I highlighted the last paragraph because this is the ONLY WAY your relationship could move forward and get much stronger.
It is the only way to really grow.
Both of you are crossing over a certain emotional threshold , and there needs to be transparency , BOTH WAYS.

Think of what this relationship means to you , and do everything possible , to keep it special.

Best wishes ,take it one stem at a time, and I know that it would only get stronger.

How do I know?

Lol, I don't know,

It's just my gut feeling.


----------



## Hicks

Here is my advice for you.
Your man needs time to process and decide if he can handle this. Your man is either secure enough to handle this or he is not. It's not about what you can do or say. It's about his own ability to set aside your past, or assign reasons to it, such as you were young and searching for something you did not receive from your upbringing...

Your goal and this is very important is to figure out whether he is secure enough to get over this before you marry him. Your goal should NOT be to get him back at all costs. Marrying a man that is or will become retroactively jealous of your past will be a disaster for you and for your children. You must be prepared to cut him loose if he does not demonstrate clearly that he's OK with everything he knows about you.

You are dating, not married. You have every right to tell him things or not tell him things using your own judgement about what is best. He may dump you for not telling him, or he may dump you based on what you tell him. Guess what? Either way, he is telling you that he is too insecure to deal with your past.

Personally what I would recommend is you don't tell him how many men you had sex with. Ten years from now, I think that the fewer specifics he knows, the better.


----------



## samyeagar

My STBW has been with over 30 men. I have been with 3 women including her. She has some very difficult things in her past that because of situations we were in, that I HAD to know about. She respected me enough to be upfront and honest, knowing full well the possible damage it could cause. She didn't want me finding things out through other sources. She wanted to control her own truth which ultimately is the only one that matters. She answered every question I had honestly.

While I agree 100% with what alexm said about this being HIS issue, because it is, there are a lot of ways he can go about dealing with it, and that decision is ultimately HIS to make. Don't lose sight of the fact that he could still deal with HIS issue by simply walking away. No more you, no more issue. If you want to keep this relationship, it is up to YOU to help him want to as well. That is your decision to make. Make no mistake, this is going to be a lot of work, and YOU have to decide for yourself if the benefits of being with him are worth the work for YOU.

You will likely hear more about how this is HIS issue. You will likely hear more about how the past is the past, and it is...for you. For him, this is his present, and he didn't even find out about it from you. I don't think it would be a good idea to press the issue that this is the past and it should stay that way, because it IS NOT the past for him.

I would also avoid advice that has you explaining to him "but I chose you" because while you did, the implied part of that includes "I chose you because you were the only choice left..."


----------



## WyshIknew

LonnieHere said:


> This is to WorkingOnMe:
> 
> *My man - is - not - my - second - choice.*
> 
> My boyfriend has a hundred GREAT traits that the other guy doesn't have and never will have.
> 
> Ok, i slept with the other guy faster. The jerk was a wrong guy. And it was wrong to do it when i did. That does NOT make the jerk the first choice!


This may have been covered, apologies if it has but I've skimmed and couldn't see anything exactly like what I am about to say.

Please do not tell your bf that he has a hundred great traits that the other guy doesn't have.

The other guy got your knickers wet and they were around your ankles quicker than with your bf.

Your bf doesn't want to know that he is kinder with animals, good with kids, better spoken, better career prospects, is more of a gentleman with you etc. etc.

He wants to know that he gets your knickers wetter than the other guy did, he wants to know that you are gagging for it from him.
And to be honest, if he doesn't, why are you with him?

Have you thought about what to do if the other guy does start bragging, giving your guy 'looks' and it gets through to you via mutual friends?


----------



## Caribbean Man

WyshIknew said:


> This may have been covered, apologies if it has but I've skimmed and couldn't see anything exactly like what I am about to say.
> 
> Please do not tell your bf that he has a hundred great traits that the other guy doesn't have.
> 
> The other guy got your knickers wet and they were around your ankles quicker than with your bf.
> 
> Your bf doesn't want to know that he is kinder with animals, good with kids, better spoken, better career prospects, is more of a gentleman with you etc. etc.
> 
> He wants to know that he gets your knickers wetter than the other guy did, he wants to know that you are gagging for it from him.
> And to be honest, if he doesn't, why are you with him?
> 
> Have you thought about what to do if the other guy does start bragging, giving your guy 'looks' and it gets through to you via mutual friends?


That's why I think the only way to move forward is one step at a time . 
Tiny baby steps.

Honesty being paramount in the relationship.

I believe she likes him a lot, but she needs to _show_ that.
Showing empathy, and understanding how he feels would give her a lot of mileage with him.


----------



## Mr The Other

Caribbean Man said:


> That's why I think the only way to move forward is one step at a time .
> Tiny baby steps.
> 
> Honesty being paramount in the relationship.
> 
> I believe she likes him a lot, but she needs to _show_ that.
> Showing empathy, and understanding how he feels would give her a lot of mileage with him.


I am becoming something of a fan of yours.


----------



## WyshIknew

Caribbean Man said:


> That's why I think the only way to move forward is one step at a time .
> Tiny baby steps.
> 
> Honesty being paramount in the relationship.
> 
> I believe she likes him a lot, but she needs to _show_ that.
> Showing empathy, and understanding how he feels would give her a lot of mileage with him.


Yes, agree.


And bonk his brains out too.


----------



## AnnieAsh

Lonnie, a female here poking her head in. I'm not going to write some huge diatribe or dissertation. 

I've been where you are. My husband has no problem with my past (such as it is) but a MAJOR problem with an ex of mine. He thinks that relationship was a testament to my utter stupidity and naïveté. 

The only thing you CAN do is be a good girlfriend. Can't build a time machine and change the past. If he asks you questions, answer factually and don't bring emotion into it. I would say there is a line though. I do not discuss everything about my relationship with my ex. There are details that he's asked (long time ago) that I just wouldn't share because they weren't my business to tell. 

You love your boyfriend. You made stupid decisions as he has. As everyone who got on their high horse has. The best thing to do is learn from it going forward and behave like a mature woman.


----------



## Fozzy

manticore said:


> As I told you in my first post ( that I now I see was right in the spot regarding this jerk) the jerk will not stop bragging and messing with your boyfriend, as long as he is in your lives in anyway your relationship will never heal completely.
> 
> *my advice again is that if you want a full recovery from this, you just can not have the presence of this other guy in your lives, and if that means that your BF need to change jobs and even industry then he might have to do it*, and this is why is important to both of you to realize how committed are to you to save your relationship.
> 
> .


I think this is probably true, but I would not suggest it to him. He'll need to reach that decision on his own. Otherwise, it will feel like a second defeat at the hands of the other guy. Which is EXACTLY what the other guy wants.


----------



## Thunder7

Samyeager, once again, you are spot on. I don't need to add anything new. Lonnie definitely has some RJ resources here, if she needs them.


----------



## DoF

I think moving away from that other guy/maybe changing jobs (if they work together etc) would go a long way to making him more comfortable and accepting what happened.

Every time he sees him/hear stuff that might have come from his end it will stir up his feelings.

Either he is REALLY good at letting go and not let other people's opinions effect him (aka don't care for what you have no control of) or simply distance yourself from it.

Again, good luck OP.


----------



## samyeagar

DoF said:


> I think moving away from that other guy/maybe changing jobs (if they work together etc) would go a long way to making him more comfortable and accepting what happened.
> 
> *Every time he sees him/hear stuff that might have come from his end it will stir up his feelings.*
> 
> Either he is REALLY good at letting go and not let other people's opinions effect him (aka don't care for what you have no control of) or simply distance yourself from it.
> 
> Again, good luck OP.


This is why it is very important for her to be open and honest with her BF. She needs to take back control of the truth, and keep control of it. She needs to make sure that when her BF hears things, and he likely will, that he will not get another shock. That anything he hears, he can say "Yeah, I already knew that." Anything less than that will be seen as additional deceit.


----------



## Code-Welder

LonnieHere said:


> The second thing is, he figures the other guy has bragged to his friends and that "everbody knows." And that makes him angry and frustrated and makes him feel small.


He should be feeling large, men who brag tend to not get much respect from other men of any worth. BF should feel the comfort of knowing not only do you love him, and want to be with him.

The main point, is BF is better for you in bed and all other ways. The jerk is just that, doing talking is not nearly as much fun as what your BF and you enjoy. Talk is cheap.


----------



## jaharthur

LonnieHere said:


> Last thing is the past. He wants to have a convo. He said he'd answer anything i asked and he would answer anythng i asked. _*He's also really focusing on the jerk. He wants details like how many times, where, when, things done and all that. So that's a land mine - i don't know what to do there either*_


You are probably going to have to answer when and for how long with "the jerk." But things done? No, no, a thousand times no; avoid that if at all possible. He may not realize it, but those details will only make the mind movies worse for him.

And if you are relatively free and uninhibited in your sexual relationship with your bf, then it REALLY doesn't matter in the slightest. It's only if he feels you're refusing something that the jerk got that he'll "trigger."


----------



## samyeagar

jaharthur said:


> You are probably going to have to answer when and for how long with "the jerk." But things done? No, no, a thousand times no; avoid that if at all possible. He may not realize it, but those details will only make the mind movies worse for him.
> 
> And if you are relatively free and uninhibited in your sexual relationship with your bf, then it REALLY doesn't matter in the slightest. It's only if he feels you're refusing something that the jerk got that he'll "trigger."


Don't deflect too much. This is where the balancing act, and being direct without emotion comes in. You need to be careful not to give to many "I don't want to talk about that," or "I don't feel comfortable talking about that." answers because he will likely, and probably rightly jump to the worst conclusions and mind movies. 

Be mindful of your nonverbal communication as well. He will likely pick up on any sense of reminiscence, longing, enjoyment you show with your tone of voice, the words you choose. Direct and matter of fact is what you need to go for.


----------



## Code-Welder

jaharthur said:


> You are probably going to have to answer when and for how long with "the jerk." But things done? No, no, a thousand times no; avoid that if at all possible. He may not realize it, but those details will only make the mind movies worse for him.
> 
> And if you are relatively free and uninhibited in your sexual relationship with your bf, then it REALLY doesn't matter in the slightest. It's only if he feels you're refusing something that the jerk got that he'll "trigger."


Wise advise, he wants to know how he sized up as compared to the jerk. He is feeling insecure as this guy seems like a total jerk. Knowing and not knowing can be a problem. If you tell him be vague tell him you do not really recall how many times, give a honest number but with comments like it is hard to be sure, he was not that good and not really eventful.

Details can be minimized, like if he is worried the guy has a bigger package tell him you do not really know but BF always feels bigger and is better in bed. He really needs to feel your total devotion and that is superior to the jerk. Based on what you have said he is all those things. Back it up with telling him how good he is in bed and how much more of a man he is to you than anyone else before.


----------



## samyeagar

Code-Welder said:


> Wise advise, he wants to know how he sized up as compared to the jerk. He is feeling insecure as this guy seems like a total jerk. Knowing and not knowing can be a problem. If you tell him be vague tell him you do not really recall how many times, give a honest number but with comments like it is hard to be sure, he was not that good and not really eventful.
> 
> Details can be minimized, like if he is worried the guy has a bigger package tell him you do not really know but BF always feels bigger and is better in bed. He really needs to feel your total devotion and that is superior to the jerk. Based on what you have said he is all those things. Back it up with telling him how good he is in bed and how much more of a man he is to you than anyone else before.


Again, my advice is be very careful with the vagueness. Among other things you are dealing with here is one of trust. He is not stupid. He will pick up on any evasiveness and you want to make sure you do not come off like you are hiding anything.

ETA: He is also questioning whether he is your second choice, and if he thinks you are keeping things from him, things you shared with the "jerk", it will only reinforce that, especially things he might hear from other sources that you evaded telling him. You need to control your truth.


----------



## DoktorFun

YAY!

Poor, miserable feeling-special guy. 

I believe, he will wake up soon...

So take your time and enjoy lonnie, while you can.


----------



## I Don't Know

Code-Welder said:


> Wise advise, he wants to know how he sized up as compared to the jerk. He is feeling insecure as this guy seems like a total jerk. Knowing and not knowing can be a problem. If you tell him be vague tell him you do not really recall how many times, give a honest number but with comments like it is hard to be sure, he was not that good and not really eventful.
> 
> Details can be minimized, like if he is worried the guy has a bigger package tell him you do not really know but BF always feels bigger and is better in bed. He really needs to feel your total devotion and that is superior to the jerk. Based on what you have said he is all those things. Back it up with telling him how good he is in bed and how much more of a man he is to you than anyone else before.


I am of such a mixed mind about this. Knowing would be bad, not knowing would be bad. I just hope any crazy monkey sex act you and the other guy ever did, you've already done with your BF. That is what I think is going to be the nail in the coffin or your saving grace. I, and I believe most men, tend to relate their desirability with how freaky you will get with them. 

Hopefully, you and your BF have been together long enough that you two have done everything you ever did with the jerk and 1000 times more. If not your BF is going to be extremely hurt, again. 

He's going to want to know why you WANTED to do it on roller skates (hypothetical) with the jerk but never with him. I'm not sure there's going to be a good answer for that. The only answer that I can imagine even takes the edge off that question would be, "it wasn't my idea to do that and it wasn't that good, but when it only takes a guy 90 seconds to finish uncomfortable stuff like that is easier to get through."


----------



## LongWalk

Tell your boyfriend that after you had sex with OM it felt empty and shallow. You felt yourself a fool for messing around with him when future boyfriend was there. As to the details of your past sex life, thinking of them seems strange to you now since your heart and body are tuned into him (BF).

Do you orgasm easily with your boyfriend? If you do and sees and feels it, he will feel like superman. Don't ever fake it.

Does your boyfriend have a good social life? Do you get along with his friends and visa versa?


----------



## norajane

Hicks said:


> Here is my advice for you.
> Your man needs time to process and decide if he can handle this. Your man is either secure enough to handle this or he is not. It's not about what you can do or say. It's about his own ability to set aside your past, or assign reasons to it, such as you were young and searching for something you did not receive from your upbringing...
> 
> *Your goal and this is very important is to figure out whether he is secure enough to get over this before you marry him. Your goal should NOT be to get him back at all costs. Marrying a man that is or will become retroactively jealous of your past will be a disaster for you and for your children. You must be prepared to cut him loose if he does not demonstrate clearly that he's OK with everything he knows about you.
> *
> *You are dating, not married. * You have every right to tell him things or not tell him things using your own judgement about what is best. He may dump you for not telling him, or he may dump you based on what you tell him. Guess what? Either way, he is telling you that he is too insecure to deal with your past.
> 
> Personally what I would recommend is you don't tell him how many men you had sex with. Ten years from now, I think that the fewer specifics he knows, the better.


I completely agree. 

Lonnie, don't ever forget that dating is for evaluating the kind of relationship the two of you have and can have together, not for deciding upfront he is the one and then forcing it all into place, or molding yourself to fit what you think is his ideal.

If you two were already married, I'd advise a lot of caution and ground rules before talking about pasts and numbers and positions. People think they can handle certain information, but are surprised to find out that knowing creates an internal anguish that is hard, if not impossible, to shake. 

However, you aren't married. This is the time to tell him what he wants to know, and to listen to him tell you about himself and his past. If you're smart, you'll both use those numbers and positions questions to lead to conversations about what you each learned about yourselves from those sexual relationships, good, bad and indifferent. 

If you're serious about this guy and are thinking long term, then you need him to love you for who you are. In order to love you for who you are, he has to know who you are, _so don't hide your truth and your life experiences from him_. You don't have to make apologies or excuses for it, either, by the way. Just be honest. 

Because you aren't married, if it's too hard for him to accept your past and it causes him mental anguish, you can end things now when it's easier. That's what dating is for - assessing your compatibility. Better to figure it out now, than in 15 years when you're knee deep in children and a mortgage.

Because you aren't married, you have a chance of finding a man who doesn't agonize about your past sexual history. Someone who sees your sexual life as a natural part of _your_ life and is fine with you having had a sexual life before him. Someone who doesn't get all stressed out about it. Someone who doesn't think that your past sexual history somehow reflects on him. Someone who won't die inside when he hears about a certain position you once did with someone else. Someone who won't make you feel like your past is ruining his peace of mind. 

If your bf isn't that guy, then he's not the right guy for you. If he is that guy, then you've got a good start together.


----------



## samyeagar

norajane said:


> I completely agree.
> 
> Lonnie, don't ever forget that dating is for evaluating the kind of relationship the two of you have and can have together, not for deciding upfront he is the one and then forcing it all into place, or molding yourself to fit what you think is his ideal.
> 
> If you two were already married, I'd advise a lot of caution and ground rules before talking about pasts and numbers and positions. People think they can handle certain information, but are surprised to find out that knowing creates an internal anguish that is hard, if not impossible, to shake.
> 
> However, you aren't married. This is the time to tell him what he wants to know, and to listen to him tell you about himself and his past. If you're smart, you'll both use those numbers and positions questions to lead to conversations about what you each learned about yourselves from those sexual relationships, good, bad and indifferent.
> 
> If you're serious about this guy and are thinking long term, then you need him to love you for who you are. In order to love you for who you are, he has to know who you are, _so don't hide your truth and your life experiences from him_. You don't have to make apologies or excuses for it, either, by the way. Just be honest.
> 
> Because you aren't married, if it's too hard for him to accept your past and it causes him mental anguish, you can end things now when it's easier. That's what dating is for - assessing your compatibility. Better to figure it out now, than in 15 years when you're knee deep in children and a mortgage.
> 
> Because you aren't married, you have a chance of finding a man who doesn't agonize about your past sexual history. Someone who sees your sexual life as a natural part of _your_ life and is fine with you having had a sexual life before him. Someone who doesn't get all stressed out about it. Someone who doesn't think that your past sexual history somehow reflects on him. Someone who won't die inside when he hears about a certain position you once did with someone else. Someone who won't make you feel like your past is ruining his peace of mind.
> 
> If your bf isn't that guy, then he's not the right guy for you. If he is that guy, then you've got a good start together.


This is some good advice, but I would add that when it comes to history, try and make sure that ultimately it stays history, and does not become part of the present.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## samyeagar

LongWalk said:


> Tell your boyfriend that after you had sex with OM it felt empty and shallow. You felt yourself a fool for messing around with him when future boyfriend was there. As to the details of your past sex life, thinking of them seems strange to you now since your heart and body are tuned into him (BF).
> 
> Do you orgasm easily with your boyfriend? If you do and sees and feels it, he will feel like superman. Don't ever fake it.
> 
> Does your boyfriend have a good social life? Do you get along with his friends and visa versa?



She did sleep with the "jerk" multiple times so too much downplaying very well might come across as disingenuous, and could cause another disconnect between words and actions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## See_Listen_Love

The advice given to OP on 'tell him this' or 'tell him that' is actually helping OP to trickle truth the poor guy.

It is helping framing him into staying with her.

He needs to have the truth, the only exception could be that OP tells him that he can get all the truth he wants, but that he must really think about wanting to know all, because it can cause him to have that RJ.

BTW He is getting again in the same position as when he was first dating her, because OP is having all this information and help and he has not (as far as we know) and he could be very angry if he finds out later. Once again fooled?


----------



## LongWalk

SeeListenLove,

Do you recommend radical honesty?

I am of two minds. I think it could work well. However, if OP has had 27 sex partners and he has had 4 or 5, he may not be able to get his head round it.

There are truths that are different from facts.

If one goes back and considers all sexual experience objectively, I think it is realistic to say some were excellent, usually when there was emotion involved or super chemistry, also equality of emotional commitment, though this is difficult to gauge.

Casual sex can be great but do we remember it as fondly as coming simultaneously because we were so effortlessly in tune with our partner?

Lonnie changing. Her BF is, too. It is not certain that they will marry. I agree with other posters that they should not rush into marriage.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Mr The Other said:


> I am becoming something of a fan of yours.


Lol, thanks,
But as you can plainly see , I am already a fan of yours!
Have been for sometime.


----------



## TopsyTurvy5

My prediction is this will end badly. It's just a matter of time. He won't let this go.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## samyeagar

LongWalk said:


> SeeListenLove,
> 
> Do you recommend radical honesty?
> 
> I am of two minds. I think it could work well. However, if OP has had 27 sex partners and he has had 4 or 5, he may not be able to get his head round it.
> 
> There are truths that are different from facts.
> 
> If one goes back and considers all sexual experience objectively, I think it is realistic to say some were excellent, usually when there was emotion involved or super chemistry, also equality of emotional commitment, though this is difficult to gauge.
> 
> Casual sex can be great but do we remember it as fondly as coming simultaneously because we were so effortlessly in tune with our partner?
> 
> Lonnie changing. Her BF is, too. It is not certain that they will marry. I agree with other posters that they should not rush into marriage.


My STBW has had over 30 partners, me...3 including her, so it can work if handled properly and that is the perspective I am coming from.

Of course there are past experiences that were good...for both of us. One should not equate low partner count with inexperience.

n my case, and similar to what the OP's boyfriend is going through, there were certain experiences of my STBW that had actual, real world, present day implications, which means they were no longer part of her past, but part of our present. I had no need to know anything beyond vagueties for most of it, and that's how it remains. Same for her. The only details she knows are ones with real world, current implications. 

In the case of the OP, this is obviously a situation that has current implications because the "jerk" is running his mouth, and will likely continue to do so. Do I think the OP needs to disclose every sordid detail of every past encounter? Of course not, but if there are things that might come up, that are of a questionable nature, that might go from being in her past into his present, then yeah, she should probably tell him.

Just one example from my own relationship...my STBW and I were invited to go out on a friend of hers boat with the friends husband. She did give me a heads up that she had been involved in a threesome with this woman and my STBW's then husband. The friend at some point wanted to return the favor for her husband, but my STBW had refused. My STBW told me this because she knew that once the drinking started, lips might loosen up, and she wanted me to find out from her, and not just have it dropped on me.


----------



## Caribbean Man

TopsyTurvy5 said:


> My prediction is this will end badly. It's just a matter of time. He won't let this go.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Or it could very well be the start of something beautiful.
A relationship where there is mutual trust, care , empathy , one where insecurities , vulnerability and jealousy issues are dealt with in a mature , caring manner.

They are grown adults.


----------



## TopsyTurvy5

Caribbean Man said:


> Or it could very well be the start of something beautiful.
> A relationship where there is mutual trust, care , empathy , one where insecurities , vulnerability and jealousy issues are dealt with in a mature , caring manner.
> 
> They are grown adults.


That is also true. 

However, I think the majority of men would have a very difficult time moving past this. Personally, I don't believe the "old me" line the OP is saying. (It happened less than a year ago, and yet here she is MUCH different?) But who knows, maybe he is buying it.

I think it is interesting to look at the response from her boyfriend. He loves her, but he wants details- and most likely lots of details of the sexual activity. I don't see this being a good thing. You seriously think he is going to get details of what his lover and his enemy did and be cool with it? I think that is *very* unlikely. And the trickle truth that people are suggesting is so f*cked up it isn't even funny. HONESTY people, that's the only way.

In my opinion, she lied to him. He pretty much said the same thing, so I think this has a high likelihood of going south. It make take a little bit of time, but I see this going south - or being an issue for a long time, at the very least.


----------



## TopsyTurvy5

LongWalk said:


> T*ell your boyfriend that after you had sex with OM it felt empty and shallow. You felt yourself a fool for messing around with him when future boyfriend was there. As to the details of your past sex life, thinking of them seems strang*e to you now since your heart and body are tuned into him (BF).
> 
> Do you orgasm easily with your boyfriend? If you do and sees and feels it, he will feel like superman. Don't ever fake it.
> 
> Does your boyfriend have a good social life? Do you get along with his friends and visa versa?


I love answers like this because they don't really worry about being honest and upfront. Basically it is trying to give her an answer that her boyfriend can handle more easily-not necessarily the truth. 

A question to the OP and to Long Walk- would you want to be told something that made it easier to deal with but was not entirely the truth or would you want someone to be honest with you?


----------



## DoF

TopsyTurvy5 said:


> That is also true.
> 
> I think the majority of men would have a very difficult time moving past this. I don't believe the "old me" line the OP is saying. (It happened less than a year ago, and yet here she is MUCH different?) Look at the response from her boyfriend. He loves her, but he wants details- and most likely lots of details. I don't see this being a good thing. You seriously think he is going to get details of what his lover and his enemy did and be cool with it? I think that is very unlikely.
> .


This guy is in a tug war between his heart (he loves her/feelings) and his brain (which tells him to run FAST).

Then you throw in his penis in the middle (which is pulling him back towards his heart).

That's why I said that it's probably best for OP to just move on and find someone else.......

I also think that this guy deserves someone better than OP, but that's just me.......he should leave/find someone else as well.

20 years ago as a teen/in 20s I can see myself letting my heart/penis win this war.

Today? No way in hell, what OP did is a complete deal breaker.....she wouldn't hear back from me regardless of what my heart/penis felt hehe.


----------



## samyeagar

DoF said:


> This guy is in a tug war between his heart (he loves her/feelings) and his brain (which tells him to run FAST).
> 
> Then you throw in his penis in the middle (which is pulling him back towards his heart).
> 
> That's why I said that it's probably best for OP to just move on and find someone else.......
> 
> *I also think that this guy deserves someone better than OP*, but that's just me.......he should leave/find someone else as well.
> 
> 20 years ago as a teen/in 20s I can see myself letting my heart/penis win this war.
> 
> Today? No way in hell, what OP did is a complete deal breaker.....she wouldn't hear back from me regardless of what my heart/penis felt hehe.


I'm not sure I'd go that far unless it was written..."someone better *SUITED* for him..." because I don't think there is anything inherently bad or wrong with her. She just had a different view of things, and may need to face the reality that not all views and outlooks are compatible just because we want them to be.


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## TopsyTurvy5

DoF said:


> This guy is in a tug war between his heart (he loves her/feelings) and his brain (which tells him to run FAST).
> 
> Then you throw in his penis in the middle (which is pulling him back towards his heart).
> 
> That's why I said that it's probably best for OP to just move on and find someone else.......
> 
> I also think that this guy deserves someone better than OP, but that's just me.......he should leave/find someone else as well.
> 
> 20 years ago as a teen/in 20s I can see myself letting my heart/penis win this war.
> 
> Today? No way in hell, what OP did is a complete deal breaker.....she wouldn't hear back from me regardless of what my heart/penis felt hehe.


If you go back to her first thread (out of THREE!!) on this topic you will see I said EXACTLY the same thing. She didn't respect him at the beginning, and she is not respecting him now. (Trickle truth, anyone?) He should leave and she should move on. 

I definitely think the penis is doing the thinking at this point. Most people who stated an opinion in her first thread said that they considered her behavior cheating, lying, and/or disrespectful. I'll bet this guy feels the same way and will for some time, but the sex is probably clouding his thinking.


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## TopsyTurvy5

samyeagar said:


> I'm not sure I'd go that far unless it was written..."someone better *SUITED* for him..." because I don't think there is anything inherently bad or wrong with her. She just had a different view of things, and may need to face the reality that not all views and outlooks are compatible just because we want them to be.


She wasn't honest and upfront with him. That's pretty tough to defend.


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## samyeagar

TopsyTurvy5 said:


> She wasn't honest and upfront with him. That's pretty tough to defend.


I honestly don't think she saw anything wrong with how she handled things in the beginning, and only began to consider that when she felt the repercussions. The only way she handled it wrong was in relation to her boyfriend. There are a lot of men out there who would not have had a problem with this.

Her views on sex are different than her boyfriend. It means different things to each of them. She is of the mindset that sex can mean nothing and not necessarily worth a second thought. He is not. There is nothing wrong with either view, but it is difficult to reconcile the two. It can be done, but it is difficult.


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## TopsyTurvy5

samyeagar said:


> I honestly don't think she saw anything wrong with how she handled things in the beginning, and only began to consider that when she felt the repercussions. The only way she handled it wrong was in relation to her boyfriend. There are a lot of men out there who would not have had a problem with this.
> 
> Her views on sex are different than her boyfriend. It means different things to each of them. She is of the mindset that sex can mean nothing and not necessarily worth a second thought. He is not. There is nothing wrong with either view, but it is difficult to reconcile the two. It can be done, but it is difficult.


See, I think, based on his reaction, that he was under the belief that they were exclusive at the time. To me, it sounds like she was not upfront and not honest with him. 

Personally I don't care about what she did with the other guy, as long as she is upfront with everyone. She wasn't, and therein lies the problem. 

Additionally, she did not treat them equally, and in some eyes she actually treated her boyfriend worse. These are pretty tough pills to swallow.


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## samyeagar

TopsyTurvy5 said:


> See, I think, based on his reaction, that he was under the belief that they were exclusive at the time. To me, it sounds like she was not upfront and not honest with him.
> 
> Personally I don't care about what she did with the other guy, as long as she is upfront with everyone. She wasn't, and therein lies the problem.
> 
> Additionally, she did not treat them equally, and in some eyes she actually treated her boyfriend worse. These are pretty tough pills to swallow.


I think you're right in most of this, and what it shows to me was that at the time this was all going down, she really didn't know her boyfriend all that well, certainly not as well as she convinced herself she did. She read things very differently than he did, and these are the results.


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## norajane

samyeagar said:


> I think you're right in most of this, and what it shows to me was that at the time this was all going down, she really didn't know her boyfriend all that well, certainly not as well as she convinced herself she did. She read things very differently than he did, and these are the results.


Of course she didn't know him. They'd only gone out for a couple weeks. How could she know him well in that time? 

I also have a hard time understanding who expects exclusivity from the first date. Especially in these days of online dating...you pretty much have to know exactly the opposite - no one is exclusive from the first date because everyone is still on the freaking dating site.

Kids these days! Get off my lawn.


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## TopsyTurvy5

norajane said:


> Of course she didn't know him. They'd only gone out for a couple weeks. How could she know him well in that time?
> 
> I also have a hard time understanding who expects exclusivity from the first date. Especially in these days of online dating...you pretty much have to know exactly the opposite - no one is exclusive from the first date because everyone is still on the freaking dating site.
> 
> Kids these days! Get off my lawn.


According to her other thread (I know, it's hard to keep track) she said she had been dating her boyfriend for a couple of weeks when she slept with the other guy, so it wasn't the "first date". 

Again, I don't have a problem with it, IF you are upfront with the people. She wasn't.


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## DoF

TopsyTurvy5 said:


> If you go back to her first thread (out of THREE!!) on this topic you will see I said EXACTLY the same thing. She didn't respect him at the beginning, and she is not respecting him now. (Trickle truth, anyone?) He should leave and she should move on.
> 
> I definitely think the penis is doing the thinking at this point. Most people who stated an opinion in her first thread said that they considered her behavior cheating, lying, and/or disrespectful. I'll bet this guy feels the same way and will for some time, but the sex is probably clouding his thinking.


Yep, agreed


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## DoF

samyeagar said:


> Her views on sex are different than her boyfriend. It means different things to each of them. She is of the mindset that sex can mean nothing and not necessarily worth a second thought. He is not.


In that case, he should run even faster as the sex with him (few months after dating) was not exactly "intimacy" etc.



Again, her act shows certain image (just in for sex/bad boys) with one guy (****ty one at that) and completely opposite with this guy.

How does one know what's actually true/reality?


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## Tall Average Guy

norajane said:


> Of course she didn't know him. They'd only gone out for a couple weeks. How could she know him well in that time?
> 
> I also have a hard time understanding who expects exclusivity from the first date. Especially in these days of online dating...you pretty much have to know exactly the opposite - no one is exclusive from the first date because everyone is still on the freaking dating site.
> 
> Kids these days! Get off my lawn.


I am not convinced that it is the exclusivity that is the real problem, regardless of his words. Rather, she freely jumped into the sack with the other guy, but by her own admission had not been intimate with her BF because she wanted to do things right (and as I recall, waited a couple of months). 

So her willingness to jump into bed with a guy he hates combined with the BF being made to wait and her, at least on the surface, seemingly misleading him into thinking that she did place a higher value on sex than she actually did, and he is a mess of emotions. My guess is that the BF thinks she is one way with the other guy and one way with him, and he is trying to figure out which is real. He is also wondering if she is really that into him or just around because he is safe. Again, he is unsure of what is real.

I don't think anything she did is wrong. But when you are simultaneously dating two guys and act different ways with each, it is not unexpected that one may not like how he was treated. Apart from making things very clear up front, I don't know that there was much that could be done to avoid this.

I also agree that she needs to stick to her boundaries. Share what she is comfortable with and no more. If that is not enough for him, let him go for both their sakes. They each deserve someone that can love and accept them.


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## Blondilocks

This thread is deja vu all over again. Since this subject is so mesmerizing to the followers why don't you all start your own thread and beat it to death. Stop stoning the OP for pete's sake.

Talk about stalkers.


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## samyeagar

Blondilocks said:


> This thread is deja vu all over again. Since this subject is so mesmerizing to the followers why don't you all start your own thread and beat it to death. Stop stoning the OP for pete's sake.
> 
> Talk about stalkers.


No one is stalking, and many of us are actually standing up for the OP, who incidentally has not been back since this thread was started.


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## Blondilocks

samyeagar said:


> No one is stalking, and many of us are actually standing up for the OP, who incidentally has not been back since this thread was started.


She probably has a low tolerance for regurgitated lectures.


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## samyeagar

Blondilocks said:


> She probably has a low tolerance for regurgitated lectures.


There has been a lot of thoughtful advice given in this thread. Advice that was meant to be, and will be helpful to her should she choose to use it.


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## jaharthur

A lot of people are concluding the boyfriend is insecure if he can't find acceptance in this situation. I'm not sure I understand why.

Couldn't he be absolutely secure but have a different belief system? Is it insecure to stick by your beliefs?

Just wondering.


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## samyeagar

jaharthur said:


> A lot of people are concluding the boyfriend is insecure if he can't find acceptance in this situation. I'm not sure I understand why.
> 
> Couldn't he be absolutely secure but have a different belief system? Is it insecure to stick by your beliefs?
> 
> Just wondering.


This is one of the points I have been making.

The thing is, it is becoming increasingly unpopular to stand firm in a personal belief system, especially when it comes to sex. That said, I feel it is never right to disparage, denigrate, or otherwise trivialize someone else's beliefs when compared to your own. Accept them as different and go from there.


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## Caribbean Man

TopsyTurvy5 said:


> That is also true.
> 
> However, I think the majority of men would have a very difficult time moving past this. Personally, I don't believe the "old me" line the OP is saying. (It happened less than a year ago, and yet here she is MUCH different?) But who knows, maybe he is buying it.
> 
> I think it is interesting to look at the response from her boyfriend. He loves her, but he wants details- and most likely lots of details of the sexual activity. I don't see this being a good thing. You seriously think he is going to get details of what his lover and his enemy did and be cool with it? I think that is *very* unlikely. And the trickle truth that people are suggesting is so f*cked up it isn't even funny. HONESTY people, that's the only way.
> 
> In my opinion, she lied to him. He pretty much said the same thing, so I think this has a high likelihood of going south. It make take a little bit of time, but I see this going south - or being an issue for a long time, at the very least.


Lol,

I think I get what you're saying.

Didn't see it from that perspective , maybe because I've never been through an experience like that.

Interesting angle on what the guy might be experiencing. You might very well be right because he is the one that ended the relationship and technically ,nothing has really changed, and he took her back.

Well maybe she has changed, but we don't really know.
We're only getting her angle of the story , but to be fair , she's giving her perspective on both sides.


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## Caribbean Man

jaharthur said:


> A lot of people are concluding the boyfriend is insecure if he can't find acceptance in this situation. I'm not sure I understand why.
> 
> Couldn't he be absolutely secure but have a different belief system? Is it insecure to stick by your beliefs?
> 
> Just wondering.


:iagree:
And that's one of the things I've noticed with some people who boldly declare themselves as *open minded.*

They tend to frame anyone who doesn't believe in their value system as " narrow minded " and other negatives.

Open minded doesn't mean I will dump my personal belief system and adopt yours because yours is * superior.*

It simply means that I am willing to hear what you say , give it serious consideration , and if I'm convinced go along with it, if you're also willing to hear what I have say , give it some serious consideration , and if convinced, embrace it.

Simple compromise.


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## samyeagar

Caribbean Man said:


> :iagree:
> And that's one of the things I've noticed with some people who boldly declare themselves as *open minded.*
> 
> They tend to frame anyone who doesn't believe in their value system as " narrow minded " and other negatives.
> 
> Open minded doesn't mean I will dump my personal belief system and adopt yours because yours is * superior.*
> 
> It simply means that I am willing to hear what you say , give it serious consideration , and if I'm convinced go along with it, if you're also willing to hear what I have say , give it some serious consideration , and if convinced, embrace it.
> 
> Simple compromise.


How does the saying go?

I'm open minded, but not so open minded that my brain falls out...


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## Clay2013

Is it possible she is not real? This is her third thread and each time she post very little in each of them. 

Your on page five and she only posted once. 

Clay


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## jaharthur

Clay2013 said:


> Is it possible she is not real? This is her third thread and each time she post very little in each of them.
> 
> Your on page five and she only posted once.
> 
> Clay


Soon to be closed by FrenchFry. After her cup of coffee.


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## See_Listen_Love

LongWalk said:


> SeeListenLove,
> 
> Do you recommend radical honesty?
> 
> I am of two minds. I think it could work well. However, if OP has had 27 sex partners and he has had 4 or 5, he may not be able to get his head round it.
> 
> There are truths that are different from facts.
> 
> If one goes back and considers all sexual experience objectively, I think it is realistic to say some were excellent, usually when there was emotion involved or super chemistry, also equality of emotional commitment, though this is difficult to gauge.
> 
> Casual sex can be great but do we remember it as fondly as coming simultaneously because we were so effortlessly in tune with our partner?
> 
> Lonnie changing. Her BF is, too. It is not certain that they will marry. I agree with other posters that they should not rush into marriage.


Not sure about radical honesty, not in all cases at least. 

One of our preachers said 'truth is what is good for someone to hear'. So honesty is needed if it is good for the guy.

In this case I say yes, because the questions will burn his soul on the long term, even if buried today under a load of goodwill. 

The influence of the number of partners is an other point I think, it could be dealt with separately.


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## Mario Kempes

Blondilocks said:


> This thread is deja vu all over again. Since this subject is so mesmerizing to the followers why don't you all start your own thread and beat it to death. Stop stoning the OP for pete's sake.
> 
> Talk about stalkers.





samyeagar said:


> No one is stalking, and many of us are actually standing up for the OP, who incidentally has not been back since this thread was started.


Lonnie, the longer you take to post again, the more this thread is going to turn out like your first one and you'll have to start all over again etc.

People really want to help you here. Unfortunately for you, much of the advice is from people who're being brutally honest about how they feel about it all.

If I were your boyfriend, I'm not sure if I could handle all that's gone on with the other guy. I think I'd trigger a lot in the future. However, I hope things do work out for you.

Two things....

1. Answer every question he asks truthfully. Don't hold back on any detail he looks for. Only when he has all the info he wants will he and you know if you have a chance together. If he finds out that you held something back (and the truth has a nasty habit of coming out), he'll walk and won't even look in the rear view mirror!

2. Have the two of you considered a fresh start by moving from where you currently live?


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## ReformedHubby

Mario Kempes said:


> Lonnie, the longer you take to post again, the more this thread is going to turn out like your first one and you'll have to start all over again etc.


The problem is there really isn't any advice that can really be offered other than for her to wait and see how things turn out. His feelings are _his_ feelings. At the end of the day not to much more she can say or do to effect what he will ultimately do in the end. The fact that the OM is still in his life makes me very pessimistic about the future of their relationship.


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## LongWalk

How are you doing, Lonnie?


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