# HD & LD. What The Bleep?



## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

I guess it was about 2 years ago that my husband woke me in the middle of the night by running his hand around my backside and thighs. I lay there enjoying it and when I turned around toward him, we began going at each other like mad. It was really hot and heavy. We've had many pre-dawn romps since then. I have no idea what it is about that time of......night?......morning? But I like it. And I'm the one who usually initiates them. I've mentioned before that my husband and I are very much enjoying my menopause. :awink:

Before this though, I never, ever, ever initiated. Never in my life. But as I've mentioned on several threads, I never told my guy no. Never gave excuses. When I wasn't in the mood, I did it anyway knowing I would enjoy it. The things is, I was almost never in the mood. Seldom did I think about wanting sex. Seldom was I horny. I think I wanted sex during the times I didn't have a boyfriend, and woe was I. When I was with someone who wasn't good in bed, there was no point in me wanting sex. But when I was with someone who was good in bed, I guess I was pretty much satisfied and since we enjoyed a frequent love-making regime, I didn't have time to get horny.

Based on some of your descriptions regarding high drive and low drive, it would actually mean that I never had any drive at all.  

So tell me.....
S/he never initiates?
S/he always says no?
S/he doesn't enjoy it?

What the bleep are you calling low drive? :scratchhead:

I also want to ask why you call it that because I know of a time when women were called frigid. That word isn't used all that much anymore. It seems to be replaced with "low drive." And not offend anyone, but I honestly think there is the possibility that the women considered frigid or low drive may be unsatisfied. If she doesn't get anything out of the act, then she doesn't want to do it. She feels like there's no point, and a lot of women feel used, so they rather avoid it. I know some of you will take offense at that but I don't mean any. Some things have to be faced. While I know that it doesn't apply in all cases and I don't have all the answers, I know it does apply in many cases because it isn't humanly or physiologically possible for so many women to be frigid. When it comes to low drive, some women need time to build to desire since we're not usually hard-wired and attuned to sex like many men are. And, I am aware that some just don't want sex but again, there can't be so many women unable to ever get their motor going or so many who never want to get it going.

I spoke mainly about women because I am one, but I'm also interested in women responding about their men.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

StarFires said:


> What the bleep are you calling low drive? :scratchhead:


I think that is a very good question as everyone seems to project all sorts of issues in search of something to blame such as libido. 

Generally speaking from everything I have read here low drive would describe the following:



Someone that generally has trouble maintaining and enjoying the desired frequency of a partner. A low drive person could be someone that only wants and will have sex once a day that is with a partner that wants it three times a day. The most common scenario is a spouse that wants and permits sex 1-2 a month and the other would want it 2-3 times a week and is always frustrated. 
Some people describe low desire to be the same as orgasm/arousal difficulties, even if this person is always receptive to sex in a relationship. This would be a person that more often than not just can't seem to get aroused and does not understand why. Sometimes this should however go into a category of "Performance Anxiety." 
*The most defining trait for low drive would just be overall lack of enthusiasm.* So much so that it destroys the libido of the person normally having a higher drive.

Moderators here often attribute sexual problems to "harbored resentment" in a relationship. It is often difficult to get aroused or desire sex with someone you resent. It may be for something as simple as issues related to breaking basic trust in the relationship. 

It is an interesting topic for which everyone seems to have unique issues. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

badsanta said:


> Moderators here often attribute sexual problems to "harbored resentment" in a relationship. It is often difficult to get aroused or desire sex with someone you resent. It may be for something as simple as issues related to breaking basic trust in the relationship.
> 
> Regards,
> Badsanta


Excellent point. A ticked off wife or girlfriend is much less receptive. In some cases of resentment, she can't stand even the thought of him touching her. Until he/she/they remedy that factor, she would easily be labeled as frigid or low drive.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I'm HD, and my wife, although normal drive initially, is now LD/0D (zero drive) due to mental issues and anti-depressants use. I suppose this is another reason for low drive... to me low drive normally means "I do it for you because I love you but if I didn't have sex ever again I wouldn't miss it much"... :laugh:


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

In my case, I would describe my wife as low drive because:

She almost always turns down sex - even in situations where most people would want it (for example a free afternoon on a romantic vacation). 

She does initiate , in fact will pretty much only have sex if she was the one to initiate. Long term average is about once every 2-3 weeks. I think this is her trying to compromise as far as she can. My guess is that she would actually prefer sex a few times a year. 

She has a limited repertoire of things she will do. That has very gradually increased, but each new thing has taken a lot of encouragement for her try - even things that are intended for her and which she eventually ended up really enjoying.

She is able to O pretty much every time - but only wants to on these fairly rare occasions. She gives every impression of, and claims to enjoy sex when we have it - just only wants it rarely.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

StarFires said:


> Before this though, I never, ever, ever initiated. Never in my life.
> 
> *But you had regular sex? That's not LD
> *
> ...


Frigid is not PC and generally sets off feminist types, best to avoid it. >


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

anonmd said:


> Frigid is not PC and generally sets off feminist types, best to avoid it. >


Yeah.... I don't really care. 

Now the fact is I don't recall ever using that term, but if I encountered a situation where I thought it was the most accurate adjective to apply, I would do so without concern for who might get her panties in a twist as a result. 

I've heard certain men referred to as "limp-****(ed)." Didn't offend me one bit.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Think about how it is when you invite a friend to lunch. Even if you are the one who always initiates the invitation, the way the friend reacts really matters to how you view the friendship. If the friend is always excited and has fun at lunch, you likely won't care very much that you're always the one to do the inviting. But if you have to beg, plead and cajole your friend to go with you, you probably won't enjoy the friendship as much. Or if at lunch the friend is complaining about the food, bored, on their phone, not interested in what you have to say, then you will also not enjoy the friendship as much. And if your friend is constantly filling their time with so many other activities that they don't have time for lunch, that also will make you feel bad.

Those are the kinds of things that are problems in most HD-LD situations. I personally woudn't mind too much if I was the one to always initiate if my W seemed glad to participate. But if the attitude of the other person is that they hope you eventually give up and go away, then it puts a huge damper on the activity and the relationship in general.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

StarFires said:


> Excellent point. A ticked off wife or girlfriend is much less receptive. In some cases of resentment, she can't stand even the thought of him touching her. Until he/she/they remedy that factor, she would easily be labeled as frigid or low drive.


Some wives can be ticked off and still want you to have sex with them, be very receptive anyway.

Resentment is definitely a consistent limiter.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

StarFires said:


> Excellent point. A ticked off wife or girlfriend is much less receptive. In some cases of resentment, she can't stand even the thought of him touching her. Until he/she/they remedy that factor, she would easily be labeled as frigid or low drive.


What makes that even worse is that some spouses harbor resentment and make no effort to remedy or address the cause. They instead just choose to not talk about it. Things get worse.

The underlying cause may just be an awkward miscommunication or misunderstanding. 

For an odd example I read a story of a wife that was furious that her husband would immediately shower after intimacy. She wanted him to go through the rest of his day with her smell. Every time her husband took showers immediately after it made her feel rejected, used, and unwanted. Turned out the husband just wanted to wash off the excess lube from his hands and other areas. He was totally OK with her smell, so he did not mind if she spritzed the bath towels with her perfume so that he could go about the rest of his day enjoying her smell after showering. They lived happily ever after! 

Badsanta


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Anecdotal but I've never encountered an LD female.

Every lady I was with was down for sex a lot and I turned far more ladies away from the bedroom playground than I let in.

I think women might need the right cords struck to get that vibe but unless she has a health problem, physical or mental, I think most women want good sex.

I would say all but I haven't met them all so I have to allow for it.

I just think healthy humans want good sex at a pretty good quantity.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

badsanta said:


> What makes that even worse is that some spouses harbor resentment and make no effort to remedy or address the cause. They instead just choose to not talk about it. Things get worse.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Was ‘her perfume’ figuratively or literally? Actual perfume is not her smell though....I took it to mean she wiped herself with his towels, that would make more sense...


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Would you have dated a woman who didn't want sex?




ConanHub said:


> Anecdotal but I've never encountered an LD female.
> 
> Every lady I was with was down for sex a lot and I turned far more ladies away from the bedroom playground than I let in.
> 
> ...


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

uhtred said:


> Would you have dated a woman who didn't want sex?


I was actually looking for what I considered at the time a "nice" girl but everyone of them wanted to get me someplace private and get naked.
I was blown away when I got a date with a girl my grandmother approved of only to have her wanting a couple beers before we got down to business!
I finally adjusted my expectations and eventually met Mrs. Conan who was in my bed less than 8 hours after meeting her.

In my world, women want sex and pursue it aggressively.

I do understand everyone has varying experiences but this is what I have run into.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> uhtred said:
> 
> 
> > Would you have dated a woman who didn't want sex?
> ...


And other men who have a body like yours have similar experiences. In that they draw women toward them sexually. Some of these types are unavailable so they ignore the attention and don’t give random women the chance to flirt. But they still feel her vibe of wanting to do so. 

I will say though that you are and have always been highly sexual and even if you weren’t putting moves on most of the rando women who have tried to get on you and you may have even been a gentleman on dates. But you can’t hide yourself, so you getting clawed by tons of highly sexual women is normal.

Because you are highly sexual you not only attract women into your bod, the highly sexual ones will sniff you out before you even walk in the door and be attracted to you because of that.

So the less sexual women will notice you, but they aren’t going to throw themselves on you. And because of that, you likely didn’t notice those ones.

They were there but they just admired you from afar.

When a highly sexual and a not as sexual person initially hook up, there may not seem to be a difference immediately but the less sexual person will eventually just be less sexual. 

From what I remember of your history, you never were with a woman who this may have come to light with for long enough to know. 

NRE and all.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

wilson said:


> Think about how it is when you invite a friend to lunch. Even if you are the one who always initiates the invitation, the way the friend reacts really matters to how you view the friendship......Those are the kinds of things that are problems in most HD-LD situations. I personally woudn't mind too much if I was the one to always initiate if my W seemed glad to participate. But if the attitude of the other person is that they hope you eventually give up and go away, then it puts a huge damper on the activity and the relationship in general.


You might not mind always being the one to initiate, but some guys complain about that too even though she does have sex with him, and they also label their wife LD because she never initiates.



wilson said:


> If the friend is always excited and has fun at lunch, you likely won't care very much that you're always the one to do the inviting. But if you have to beg, plead and cajole your friend to go with you, you probably won't enjoy the friendship as much. Or if at lunch the friend is complaining about the food, bored, on their phone, not interested in what you have to say, then you will also not enjoy the friendship as much.


Disinterest means unenthused. Unengaged means bored. You (I'm saying you as in guys in general, not you personally) can complain that she's disinterested and bored, unenthused and engaged, but you might not realize that the onus is on you to interest and engage her. If you want sex, the pressure is on you to make her want it too. That means you have to make her like it in order for her to want it. If you want her to be excited and engaged, then the responsibility is on you to make it exciting and engaging for her. You have to make her like it in order for her to want to engage. It's just that simple. If the act is not fulfilling for her and she doesn't get anything out of it, then she's just servicing you, and women don't at all enjoy feeling like an object or receptacle so of course, they will avoid it like the plague. It has nothing to do with her feelings for you. It's about how sex makes her feel. There's a big difference between feeling valued as a partner and feeling used for someone's purpose. There are guys who want to get in there, so they go through the rigamarole they have to go through to get some. They might never realize changes need to be made for when he is in there because what feels good to him just because he is in there doesn't necessarily mean him being in there feels good to her. In some cases, intercourse doesn't feel good to her just because he's in there. That's because the motions that cause friction feels good to him, but there is nothing in a woman's vagina that responds to friction. So, he has to know what it is that his woman does respond to, what it is that promotes sexual enjoyment for her. 

While some men need to enhance their skills and knowledge base, I surely do recognize there are women who need to adjust their way of thinking. We were just youngsters when I married the first, and I didn't like that my husband wanted sex all the time. I didn't like that everything led to him wanting sex. I resented his desire because it made me feel used, like I was available so he was just taking advantage. Lots of women feel that same way or resent sex for other reasons but need to screw their head on straight.

There's also the phenomenon that some women lose their sex drive, and no one, not even the women themselves, are able to explain why it happened, so there's no explanation or remedy for it. There are other scenarios no doubt, and I'm not trying to address them all, but these are three scenarios that cause women to be unenthused and unengaged. I believe there are remedies for the first two I mentioned above. 

I've stated/written the above enough times on this board to know that some guys resent me saying these things, but resentment doesn't remedy anything. Resenting this while still complaining about their lack of sex and wife's lack of enthusiasm is a contradiction in terms and unproductive. Obviously, I can't speak for all women, but what I say is based on my experience and things I've heard and read from other women over my 59 years. I was on the phone with one my sisters and her lifelong friend last week (we all grew up together but they were and remain best friends), and while my sister and I never discussed anything about sex before, she and her friend were saying the same things I have stated. So I'm not far off base and right on point in most cases. Take it or leave it as you wish.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> Anecdotal but I've never encountered an LD female.
> 
> Every lady I was with was down for sex a lot and I turned far more ladies away from the bedroom playground than I let in.
> 
> ...


Can't help feeling this deserves repeating.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Starfires, I have encountered both men and women who are LD.

They exist.

Being LD does not mean that they never experience excellent heights in their sex lives. It also doesn’t mean they can’t or don’t orgasm.

When you’ve had a sexual awakening, I think it’s easy to think that others are just not awakened.

And that’s true there are some who just won’t be awakened even if they could be.

And some who now think they are LD and will be awakened someday and then they will know they were never LD.

But there are some who just are LD and there’s nothing wrong with them. And for those it’s hard when others talk about how they aren’t LD they just haven’t been awakened yet. It’s kind of insulting.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I would ask @Cletus to describe what LD means in his marriage.

Though if it will turn into him being told for the millionth time that if he changed up the bedroom she would change, I’m pretty sure he will opt out.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Faithful Wife said:


> Starfires, I have encountered both men and women who are LD.
> 
> They exist.
> 
> ...


You missed one - those who thought they were LD but were awakened and realized they never were LD.

But no offense intended. I did state there are other scenarios and I wasn't trying to address them all. That should have covered it. I've also acknowledged in past posts that there do exist women who are LD. I can't repeat verbatim every time I write. It isn't possible. And since I stipulate some, most, many, etc. it's obvious I'm not trying to speak for or about all. That isn't possible either. If there are segments not accounted for when referring to some, most, many, etc. then I'm not talking about them, so no reason for them to be offended. Where did I say or indicate there was anything wrong with anybody? I didn't.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

StarFires said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > Starfires, I have encountered both men and women who are LD.
> ...


I implied but wasn’t clear enough that I understand you have had an awakening and now realize you were never LD.

I do agree there are plenty of unawakened non LD women out there.

And in some cases some pushing from their spouse could awaken them.

But I think you place too high of a percentage on how many women that is.

I think you assume many women who are truly LD are actually just not awakened. I think you believe there are more who would realize they are more sexual if their man wasn’t a dud in bed.

It’s hard to discuss this because I agree that some women are not LD they just aren’t turned on by their H, for a multitude of reasons some of which are his lack of awareness of how women’s bodies work.

But I’m 6 years younger than you, and I’ve experienced a lot more social freedom sexually as a woman than many of the things you describe. And those younger than me have experienced even more freedom. The slight difference in our ages is a lot different in real life practice.

With this freedom, it’s easier for women to just go for what they want (ie mall rats who jump on boys). And it’s also easier for them to just not do what they don’t want.

So even in my age group and younger and even among free women who have an orgasm every time they have sex, we still have women who are LD.

I think the very nature of the title of your thread is where you are coming across as not understanding or believing that LD does exist.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

It's an honest thread. I've never encountered LD either so questioning doesn't hurt.

I do understand the details FW mentioned but, in addition, I would add that I believe I can stir the fires of lust in most women because I have done it.

No theory involved, just experience.

I don't doubt the experience of others but I don't discount my own.

I think there are people who are good at stoking fires. Be it natural talent, developed skill or a combination of both.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Faithful Wife said:


> I implied but wasn’t clear enough that I understand you have had an awakening and now realize you were never LD.
> 
> I do agree there are plenty of unawakened non LD women out there.
> 
> ...


Oh nooooo. I've never been low drive. Never came to a realization that I wasn't LD because I never thought I was and never said I was. So I'm not sure why you thought that. Indeed, I never spoke of having any sexual awakening in terms of discovering that I have a libido. I always knew I had needs, and I knew they weren't being met. I have shared that I knew I needed something but didn't know what it was. And I've shared some of my experiences learning what it was that I had been missing. But I've never associated any of it with being low drive. I'm afraid you were mistaken.

I'm also not really sure why you keep pounding that LD women do exist when I acknowledged here and have acknowledged previously that LD women do exist. If they exist in greater numbers than I believe or know about, what difference does it make? I am clearly not talking about them because I have nothing compelling, relevant, or helpful to offer. But it doesn't change anything because it doesn't negate anything that I've stated since those scenarios also exist, and those are the scenarios that have been over the decades, and continue to be, related much more often from women as their own experiences than LD women have related their experiences, aside from those who thought they were LD but discovered they weren't. That makes what I speak about the more prevalent and more relatable scenarios, especially when hearing some men say "I thought she was LD but found out she just didn't want to have sex with me." There being those who don't want to hear it or those who want to champion other scenarios doesn't change these facts. So really, what does it matter to exclaim LD women exist? If anyone wants to avoid exploring their own possible remedy(ies) because they prefer to think of their situation as being one way or the problem of one person, that's up to them. They are entitled, and I'm not judging. It doesn't matter if some don't want to hear it because there are those who are open to it, whether they openly confess it or not. For their sakes, I'm happy to be of assistance.

But the biggest thing is you are viewing and referring to LD as being one thing and all who are LD is one type of woman I guess with no interest in sex or no sex drive. I began this thread because of so many people calling their spouse LD with reasons and descriptions that are almost as diverse as the animal kingdom. One person is LD because of this. Another person is LD because of that. And somebody else is LD for different reasons. They can't all possibly apply, so I hoped to be able to hear from a variety of people and gather their information to study. You were partially correct. It isn't that I don't believe LD women exist. I keep acknowledging that they do. But what I don't believe is that not everyone is LD whose spouse says they are. If I can find some other helpful solutions that might apply, I want to share those too.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> It's an honest thread. I've never encountered LD either so questioning doesn't hurt.
> 
> I do understand the details FW mentioned but, in addition, I would add that I believe I can stir the fires of lust in most women because I have done it.
> 
> ...


You have been able to elicit lust in NRE in almost every case. I have no doubt.

What you don’t know is what would happen in an LTR with each of those women.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> You have been able to elicit lust in NRE in almost every case. I have no doubt.
> 
> What you don’t know is what would happen in an LTR with each of those women.


I do recognize that possibility though I am confident in my strength as a fire starter.

I have observed people who are better at stirring desire than others.

It is just an aspect of sexuality and more than likely starts as talent in most that have it though it can be developed.

I could also be wrong but I don't think so do to, not only my own experience, but observing other seducers/ fire starters.

What I'm referring to could easily fit into highly sexual categories. I am definitely the sexual flame stoker in my marriage and I have witnessed others in similar circumstances.

Might be similar in wavelength to sexdar but more aggressive like a sexray! LoL!:grin2:


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## Ric (May 14, 2019)

If there is no physical / biological or emotional/mental reason then sex drives can be matched. I think what you think about is eventually what you do.

What I'm saying is think about sex more, talk about sex more in a positive way and then you have more better sex.

When I coach men on having exciting healthy marriages much of it is about expectations, communication and attitude.


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

* ConanHub
In my world, women want sex and pursue it aggressively.*

My experience was totally the opposite except one woman, but that took a while as in weeks and weeks.

In my world and among my male friends, what you are saying, is extremely rare, unless you are a big spender.

WTG on marrying Mrs Conan.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

This one......



ConanHub said:


> I do recognize that possibility though I am confident in my strength as a fire starter.
> 
> I have observed people who are better at stirring desire than others.
> 
> ...


And this one......



ConanHub said:


> It's an honest thread. I've never encountered LD either so questioning doesn't hurt.
> 
> I do understand the details FW mentioned but, in addition, I would add that I believe I can stir the fires of lust in most women because I have done it.
> 
> ...


So okay, why don't start a thread teaching guys how to stoke fires and stir desire in their women. I believe every man can do it if they know how and have the confidence. So teach them how to do it.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

StarFires said:


> This one......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Because not every woman will respond to it.

We are not all the same.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

*HD &amp; LD. What The Bleep?*



ConanHub said:


> I do recognize that possibility though I am confident in my strength as a fire starter.



I also believe in my ability turning lesbians into prime heterosexual HDs with my immense penis....We all can dream 


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

StarFires said:


> This one......
> 
> 
> 
> ...




It can’t be taught. It’s a purely natural ability...


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Faithful Wife said:


> Because not every woman will respond to it.


Snippy, oh my. But you don't have a message for me because it doesn't matter that not all women are the same. Those that will respond are plenty enough.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

StarFires said:


> Those that will respond are plenty enough.


You know this because it's happened you and to your sister's friend? In my experience, some women are really into sex and very sexual, others have a normal drive and are happy to have sex regularly without having to be "jump-started" :laugh:, others are responsive and happy to have sex when the man initiates and they only need a little jump-start, others still have no drive and can't be bothered with it... until one day something happens and they find the spark... this is barring health and mental issues... and it's, again, a massive generalisation... :smile2:


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> You know this because it's happened you and to your sister's friend? In my experience, some women are really into sex and very sexual, others have a normal drive and are happy to have sex regularly without having to be "jump-started" :laugh:, others are responsive and happy to have sex when the man initiates and they only need a little jump-start, others still have no drive and can't be bothered with it... until one day something happens and they find the spark... this is barring health and mental issues... and it's, again, a massive generalisation... :smile2:


Okay. But I don't get your purpose for stating the obvious and partially quoting me to make the point of diminishing my point.

Let's not formulate penicillin because some people will be allergic to it.
Not all women will use sex toys, so let's not manufacture any.

I don't subscribe to limited and narrow thought processes.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

StarFires said:


> Okay. But I don't get your purpose for stating the obvious and partially quoting me to make the point of diminishing my point.


Sorry you don't get it... 



StarFires said:


> I don't subscribe to limited and narrow thought processes.


mmm.... re-read your previous post... :scratchhead::scratchhead:


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

It's nice to know that there is something that you don't already know everything about.
Also while I am getting all "snippy", It doesn't matter how hot your torch is, if you are trying to light a sodden mess of swamp wood.
I can't explain Low Drive to you. When you have been there then you will get it. As long as you deny its existence, my explanations are just the babblings of a brook on another continent.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

StarFires said:


> This one......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oy.

Aside from developing physically and improving appearance, the rest would be very difficult to convey by typing on a forum.

If I jacked this thread, my apologies.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> Oy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




See? I knew it 


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

*Re: HD &amp; LD. What The Bleep?*



InMyPrime said:


> I also believe in my ability turning lesbians into prime heterosexual HDs with my immense penis....We all can dream
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We can also share actual experiences.

I once had to peel a lesbian off of me at a party. She had never even flirted with a man as far as anyone knew and was living with her partner who was also at the party.

She appeared to be trying to get me to wear her as she was wrapped around me tighter than her little dress she was wearing.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

*Re: HD &amp; LD. What The Bleep?*



ConanHub said:


> We can also share actual experiences.
> 
> I once had to peel a lesbian off of me at a party. She had never even flirted with a man as far as anyone knew and was living with her partner who was also at the party.
> 
> She appeared to be trying to get me to wear her as she was wrapped around me tighter than her little dress she was wearing.



She wasn’t a very good lesbian then. Or were you wearing a thong again?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

It's hard to explain why women respond but I can share experiences. That a man spends time creating his best self for his own reasons, and when out and about is observant of women's body language and at certain times gives women a chance to escalate by putting himself near or closer for potential increased eye contact.

Don't close off multiple women by trying to zero in in one for a while, let the women escalate and it just happens.

Sometimes it's just an empathetic comment to a girl at the bar getting hit on by others agitating her, and you walk away, going back to your friends. Tell the bartender that in ten minutes give her a drink, from you, and you actually don't go over there again.

I used to to this when shooting pool with friends. More than half the time she comes over within an hour later and gives you a napkin with her phone number on it, as she's leaving after happy hour. This was almost routine when I was single. And still hit on after M, but a no go, obviously. 

Most prevalent in jeans and boots in casual atmosphere. 

And I swear, but don't know how, other women near or in your party are aware this happened, and their attention kicks up several notches. 

There are multiple scenarios but imho it's just "being fully present" and observant wherever you are, and let it happen.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Handy said:


> * ConanHub
> In my world, women want sex and pursue it aggressively.*
> 
> My experience was totally the opposite except one woman, but that took a while as in weeks and weeks.
> ...


In my own experience, about one in five women (20%) are highly sexual and pursue it with determination, if not aggression. It has little or nothing to do with wealth, and normal/average looks suffice for most men. It's not rare to find women like this, but it also means that 80% of men won't end up in a relationship with one, but they may have dated one if they were lucky.

Of course, my first marriage was mostly sexless, but I eventually moved on from that, which is when my current experience truly began.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

InMyPrime said:


> Was ‘her perfume’ figuratively or literally? Actual perfume is not her smell though....I took it to mean she wiped herself with his towels, that would make more sense...


I just went back and re-read and I'll answer because her problem was actually related to her husband having a low drive! This wife's theory was that the husband should have a higher drive if he avoided showering right after intimacy so that he would be covered in her scents and hormones. 

Obviously she could not cover his bath towels in hormones, so she just used her perfume as a form of aroma therapy to make sure that he was subconsciously thinking about her throughout the day. 

The interesting thing about that discussion was that most everyone tends to take a shower before intimacy and rarely after. So there very well could be something to that theory. It is however interesting that we all search for "something" to blame when there are intimacy difficulties. In that story (although never admitted) I think it was more associated with the wife wanting to feel loved and accepted, and not like someone that you must immediately shower afterwards if you touch. It could also be a territorial instinct as well. Most women are the first ones to complain if they smell the scent of another woman on their husbands. I don't think I have ever read an instance where the husband complains about his wife smelling like another man's smell. Perhaps it would be an issue if husbands bothered to do more of the laundry (is this shirt of my wife's really dirty, looks clean to me, WTF it smells like a room full of beer and cigarettes!). 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

StarFires said:


> So okay, why don't start a thread teaching guys how to stoke fires and stir desire in their women. I believe every man can do it if they know how and have the confidence. So teach them how to do it.


Everyone has different talents with regards to this!


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

badsanta said:


> Everyone has different talents with regards to this!


Yeah, but there may be something others can glean. @Ragnar Ragnasson has a game that works for him and shared it. I thought it would be a good idea for ConanHub to share something whether his modus operandi or specific techniques or whatever. To say that not everyone is the same doesn't mean every single person is different according to gender. There isn't THAT much variability. There will surely be those who don't relate, and there will surely be those who do. Likewise regarding the things I talk about.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> I would ask @Cletus to describe what LD means in his marriage.
> 
> Though if it will turn into him being told for the millionth time that if he changed up the bedroom she would change, I’m pretty sure he will opt out.


Ask and ye shall receive. Being able to offer insight to this argument is one of the reasons I still hang around here.

Some people, and by that I mean a sampling of 1 person in my life, enjoy sex at a level that most of us here, by virtue of self-selection, find odd. My wife likes sex - but what that means is that she likes missionary PIV once or twice a week. She is nearly 100% orgasmic from penetration alone. She is not asexual - just what most of us would call inhibited in the extreme. 

She has many hard lines - most things sexual fall on a scale of uninteresting (masturbation) to disgusting (oral sex). No touching on or inside of genitals (she will touch me - just not allow it herself). Breast play is merely tolerated for very short periods, but not enjoyed. Face-to-face sexual positions are the only "good" ones. We have a single toy that gets very limited used - a WeVibe - that is used during penetrative sex. Using toys standalone is not allowed. For a very long time early in our marriage she got very uncomfortable if I looked anywhere but at her face during sex - she has relented on this after a shaming your husband conversation. 

So many of the things that you and I take for granted, not even close to kinky, in a married sexual relationship she will not allow. 

This kind of LD is someone who enjoys, even seeks out sex in a relationship - long ago, I discovered that letting her initiate was the best overall strategy - but only under tightly controlled and prescribed circumstances. Push the boundaries, and she gets panicked, sometimes even naseous. One of the family eye-winks is dad and all the kids know that mom is going to get fidgety when a movie has a scene with overt sexuality. She just finds the whole topic slightly unsettling, in much the same way I think as when I see two men kissing onscreen. Good for them, but projecting myself in that position just feels really wrong. 

The only thing that will get my eyes rolling again would be another suggestion "Was she molested?". No. This is just who she is. I would not exactly use the term LD here, but perhaps Medium-D with strong aversions.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> It's an honest thread. I've never encountered LD either so questioning doesn't hurt.
> 
> I do understand the details FW mentioned but, in addition, I would add that I believe I can stir the fires of lust in most women because I have done it.
> 
> ...


Similarly, I have never met a woman who couldn't orgasm from PIV.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

StarFires said:


> So okay, why don't start a thread teaching guys how to stoke fires and stir desire in their women. I believe every man can do it if they know how and have the confidence. So teach them how to do it.


So I will say, without being mean or trying start a fight, that you are wrong. 

Every man might be able to do it, but not with every woman.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Cletus said:


> So I will say, without being mean or trying start a fight, that you are wrong.
> 
> Every man might be able to do it, but not with every woman.


I will say, without being mean or trying to start a fight that you are wrong. Not every man will be able to do it either.

I want to ask why you call your wife LD or MD. She has strong aversions, as you say, and doesn't want to experiment or explore. I'm wondering why you translate that into her being LD or MD.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Similarly, I have never met a woman who couldn't orgasm from PIV.


True and I would add that out respective control groups are a little different in size.:wink2:


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

StarFires said:


> There isn't THAT much variability. There will surely be those who don't relate, and there will surely be those who do. Likewise regarding the things I talk about.


Yes there is. Somone 3 sigma from the mean will be different than 98% of the rest of the world. In the US alone, that's over 6 million people who are enough sexually different in some regard from "normal" that you might be hard pressed to recognize them as being of the same species. 

Where do you think gay, straight, transgender, cross-dressing, breath play, BDSM, and every other kink under the sun comes from? From the huge variation in human sexuality.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> True and I would add that out respective control groups are a little different in size.:wink2:


Why do you say that? Have you any idea of my sexual history prior to my marriage? I'm not prone to prancing around the locker room over my exploits, such as they are.

Let's just say that my sample size is "large enough" that I should have encountered one of these "2 out of 3" women by now. I can even compute the probability, given those odds, that it's by random chance. But I can't control for faking it


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Cletus said:


> So I will say, without being mean or trying start a fight, that you are wrong.
> 
> Every man might be able to do it, but not with every woman.



From what I've observed; every man "should" be able to do it, I've seen some that flat cannot connect with a woman at all. 

No man can get every woman every time, she just may not be in the mood at said time. 

I've never met a woman of right time / place who did not want to get closer that night, or the next, unless there was a "friendship" but even then, later, every time we hooked up.

I could never sleep next to a woman when single, gf, date, etc, without wanting to get naked, and apparently that was always their intention too.

I could be counted on to not kiss and tell, and 90% of the cashiers at both grocery stores can attest to. They talked, I didn't. 

It's good for a man to realize women will find him virtually any time he acts like he's unattached. Just pay attention.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

StarFires said:


> I will say, without being mean or trying to start a fight that you are wrong. Not every man will be able to do it either.
> 
> I want to ask why you call your wife LD or MD. She has strong aversions, as you say, and doesn't want to experiment or explore. I'm wondering why you translate that into her being LD or MD.


I am adopting the terminology of the group, which I don't like but have to accept to carry on meaningful conversations. 

Her need for sex, in both frequency and variability, is much below mine, yours, and most of the rest of the group here. By that definition, LD fits. Asexual, however, does not. When I say LD, I imply significantly left-of-mean on most measures of sexuality.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Cletus said:


> Yes there is. Somone 3 sigma from the mean will be different than 98% of the rest of the world. In the US alone, that's over 6 million people who are enough sexually different in some regard from "normal" that you might be hard pressed to recognize them as being of the same species.
> 
> Where do you think gay, straight, transgender, cross-dressing, breath play, BDSM, and every other kink under the sun comes from? From the huge variation in human sexuality.


What you're saying here neither negates nor discounts anything I have stated. Again, there will surely be those who don't relate, and there will surely be those who do. Likewise regarding the things I talk about. When you can cite opposing statistical data on those specifically, then you will have contrasting information to offer. Until then, it only means the things I offer don't apply to your wife, as I've never suggested that what I say applies to all women despite you and others continually and ridiculously trying to accuse that I did.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Cletus said:


> I am adopting the terminology of the group, which I don't like but have to accept to carry on meaningful conversations.
> 
> Her need for sex, in both frequency and variability, is much below mine, yours, and most of the rest of the group here. By that definition, LD fits. Asexual, however, does not. When I say LD, I imply significantly left-of-mean on most measures of sexuality.


Ok I get it. You said she initiates once or twice a week, so I didn't associate that with low drive. Most of what you described were her aversions, likes/dislikes, and lack of diversity in the bedroom, so I thought you were using all that to define her sex drive.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Cletus said:


> Ask and ye shall receive. Being able to offer insight to this argument is one of the reasons I still hang around here.
> 
> Some people, and by that I mean a sampling of 1 person in my life, enjoy sex at a level that most of us here, by virtue of self-selection, find odd. My wife likes sex - but what that means is that she likes missionary PIV once or twice a week. She is nearly 100% orgasmic from penetration alone. She is not asexual - just what most of us would call inhibited in the extreme.
> 
> ...


Ok, sounds a little bit repressed. Probably a closet nymphomaniac (as if you really needed to hear that :nerd
Ask Conan to come round to unleash the beast. He had sex with over 88 and a half wimminz! Including 89 lesbians. :iagree:


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

StarFires said:


> I will say, without being mean or trying to start a fight that you are wrong. Not every man will be able to do it either.
> 
> I want to ask why you call your wife LD or MD. She has strong aversions, as you say, and doesn't want to experiment or explore. I'm wondering why you translate that into her being LD or MD.


Some of the guys on TAM who say they can make every woman want sex have also said they wouldn't stay with someone who wasn't passionate about sex*. I think that's a recognition with them that some women don't want sex and it's not worth it to try to change them. If they could make any woman want sex, then they should never be in the situation where she wasn't passionate about sex. 

I agree in concept that it's possible to make anyone enjoy anything--sexual or not--but often it is not nearly worth the effort it would take. If the effort is "put his hand on her thigh in bed", that's one thing. But if the guy is expected to have endless patience to figure out what she wants while she is totally disinterested, it's not worth it. "The juice isn't worth the squeeze", as they might say.

[*Sorry, I can't quote specific instances of which posters have said this. But I'm sure I've read it in the many HD-LD/sexless threads we've had on TAM]


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Cletus said:


> So I will say, without being mean or trying start a fight, that you are wrong.
> 
> Every man might be able to do it, but not with every woman.





StarFires said:


> I will say, without being mean or trying to start a fight that you are wrong. Not every man will be able to do it either.
> 
> I want to ask why you call your wife LD or MD. She has strong aversions, as you say, and doesn't want to experiment or explore. I'm wondering why you translate that into her being LD or MD.


I will say without being mean or trying to start a fight, that generally speaking the spark needed to start a fire comes from within. Some people have it and can share it and others do not.

For example there is a styrofoam cup on my desk right now. If I wanted to, I could probably engage in mind blowing sex with it that would totally rock my world. Heck, I could fill it with ice and still make it work. If anything having the challenge of ice in the styrofoam cup might even make things more exciting. 

I would argue that if I gave @Cletus the "ice cup challenge" that he could probably do it (not the he or I would want to). A lot of women might be up to that challenge to just prove a point.

My point being is that there are some people with enough spark to light pretty much anything on fire, and there are others that will go indefinitely without a fire unless someone else does it for them. And in some cases there are those that can extinguish even the most valiant efforts to create sparks and get something started. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

badsanta said:


> I will say without being mean or trying to start a fight, that generally speaking the spark needed to start a fire comes from within. Some people have it and can share it and others do not.
> 
> For example there is a styrofoam cup on my desk right now. If I wanted to, I could probably engage in mind blowing sex with it that would totally rock my world. Heck, I could fill it with ice and still make it work. If anything having the challenge of ice in the styrofoam cup might even make things more exciting.
> 
> ...


Why would having ice in the cup make it more difficult to have mind blowing sex with it? :scratchhead: I would have thought it's the opposite. Are you trying to cheat at the challenge? (I have both a styrofoam cup AND saucer lined up for a threesome, all ready to go, just say the word!).


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

InMyPrime said:


> Why would having ice in the cup make it more difficult to have mind blowing sex with it? :scratchhead: I would have thought it's the opposite. Are you trying to cheat at the challenge? (I have both a styrofoam cup AND saucer lined up for a threesome, all ready to go, just say the word!).


What is your cup filled with coffee? Mine has Dr. Pepper!


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

badsanta said:


> What is your cup filled with coffee? Mine has Dr. Pepper!


It was coffee...now it is some kind of see-through sticky liquid...Did I win?
Either way, I am buying it an engagement ring tomorrow...


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

InMyPrime said:


> It was coffee...now it is some kind of see-through sticky liquid...Did I win?
> Either way, I am buying it an engagement ring tomorrow...


Sorry you did not win anything, this guy won.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

badsanta said:


> Sorry you did not win anything, this guy won.



Should we notify the authorities? This looks like assault...


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

InMyPrime said:


> Should we notify the authorities? This looks like assault...


No, that looks like a good ol' time. This is assault ...


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

badsanta said:


> What makes that even worse is that some spouses harbor resentment and make no effort to remedy or address the cause. They instead just choose to not talk about it. Things get worse.
> 
> The underlying cause may just be an awkward miscommunication or misunderstanding.
> 
> ...


Whoa... talk about marking your territory!

Recall all those jokes in the preteen movies where some girl touches a boy, maybe holds his hand, and he vows to never wash it again? I always thought that was silly... until the first time I got a couple fingers inside. I wanted to have immediate access to that smell wherever I went for as long as it could possibly last. Hell, I didn't even want to pick up _bacon _for fear the aroma would displace the ***** smell!

Mom: Son, you haven't even touched your bacon, are you not feeling well? 
Me: (goes to drawer and gets a fork)
Mom: I've never seen you eat bacon with a fork before
Me: Uh.... just trying to be a neater person, mom. Don't worry about it. It's not like I just got my first handful of ***** last night or anything.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Whoa... talk about marking your territory!
> 
> Recall all those jokes in the preteen movies where some girl touches a boy, maybe holds his hand, and he vows to never wash it again? I always thought that was silly... until the first time I got a couple fingers inside. I wanted to have immediate access to that smell wherever I went for as long as it could possibly last. Hell, I didn't even want to pick up _bacon _for fear the aroma would displace the ***** smell!
> 
> ...



That’s why I carry a can of tuna with me whenever I travel and wife is not around.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

InMyPrime said:


> That’s why I carry a can of tuna with me whenever I travel and wife is not around.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah, but for the same level of authenticity, you could, say, hang one of those crappy little pine tree air fresheners from your rearview mirror to make you think you're actually going for a walk through a pristine pine forest. 

No matter how clever we get with our substitutes, there's still nothing like the real thing.... especially when it comes to this.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Whoa... talk about marking your territory!
> 
> Recall all those jokes in the preteen movies where some girl touches a boy, maybe holds his hand, and he vows to never wash it again? I always thought that was silly... until the first time I got a couple fingers inside. I wanted to have immediate access to that smell wherever I went for as long as it could possibly last. Hell, I didn't even want to pick up _bacon _for fear the aroma would displace the ***** smell!
> 
> ...


Ha ha! Cute. 

I love the way our natural scent drives men crazy. But I also insist on everyone washing up before sex, so I usually don’t have the full scent at that time. I had a boyfriend who would get annoyed (playfully) about this because I was “too clean” and he couldn’t taste or smell me. He told me he was going to take me camping where I couldn’t shower and attack me in a tent after I had gotten nice and smelly for a few days. Although the thought of it made me nauseous, I do understand the primal feelings a man has when he catches that whif or a taste. He just wanted that experience and he wasn’t getting it with me.

I relented a few times for the greater good of humanity because I’m a good person like that and all.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Faithful Wife said:


> Ha ha! Cute.
> 
> I love the way our natural scent drives men crazy. But I also insist on everyone washing up before sex, so I usually don’t have the full scent at that time. I had a boyfriend who would get annoyed (playfully) about this because I was “too clean” and he couldn’t taste or smell me. He told me he was going to take me camping where I couldn’t shower and attack me in a tent after I had gotten nice and smelly for a few days. Although the thought of it made me nauseous, I do understand the primal feelings a man has when he catches that whif or a taste. He just wanted that experience and he wasn’t getting it with me.
> 
> I relented a few times for the greater good of humanity because I’m a good person like that and all.


Did he ever catch you off guard liKe at the end of the day or in the morning before showering?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

StarFires said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > Ha ha! Cute.
> ...


Not really. He would try. But I always insisted on washing up so he couldn’t really catch me off guard in that sense. Also for him, I always made him (and any lover) wash their hands before because I want those fingers all over inside me and I don’t know what he has been touching all day.

So while he was brushing teeth and washing hands I would jump in the shower.

However yes sometimes in the morning before getting out of bed we’d have sex. I always knew I was clean enough at those times though. If I know I’m not clean enough for my own comfort I just run in and wash up.

We had sex a lot, for long periods of time and then repeat. We spent mostly Saturdays together so it would be a day full almost every time. I wouldn’t wash up over and over, only when or if necessary. 

He was extremely clean and lovely, too. Loved his natural scent from his body. I can still smell or taste it in my memory.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Faithful Wife said:


> Not really. He would try. But I always insisted on washing up so he couldn’t really catch me off guard in that sense. Also for him, I always made him (and any lover) wash their hands before because I want those fingers all over inside me and I don’t know what he has been touching all day.
> 
> So while he was brushing teeth and washing hands I would jump in the shower.
> 
> ...


I like freshshshshsh only. Colognes are fine, but you said "natural scent" and sent me reeling into the past and needing a shower. I won't gross you out with the details though.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

InMyPrime said:


> That’s why I carry a can of tuna with me whenever I travel and wife is not around.


<snort!> Damn you! My whisky just came out my nose!


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Married but Happy said:


> <snort!> Damn you! My whisky just came out my nose!



I regretted as soon as I wrote it....she actually smells very nice down there....more like octopus  on a bed of roses than tuna.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

StarFires said:


> I like freshshshshsh only. Colognes are fine, but you said "natural scent" and sent me reeling into the past and needing a shower. I won't gross you out with the details though.



I don’t understand the obsession of women having to shower so much all the time....I forbid her showering before sex as much as possible otherwise I might as well have sex with a bar of soap. 


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

StarFires said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > Not really. He would try. But I always insisted on washing up so he couldn’t really catch me off guard in that sense. Also for him, I always made him (and any lover) wash their hands before because I want those fingers all over inside me and I don’t know what he has been touching all day.
> ...


I mean fresh out of the shower, he had a natural scent (we all do). It’s not made from sweat or other things your body does. His fresh out of the shower scent was heavenly. Most people I’ve been with are nice fresh out of the shower too but each has their own profile I could smell. Smell is almost not the right word for it because it almost seems I register the scent in my mouth, not nose. Maybe scent isn’t the right word either.

I would tell him “I love your pheromones” and maybe it was that.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Married but Happy said:


> In my own experience, about one in five women (20%) are highly sexual and pursue it with determination, if not aggression. It has little or nothing to do with wealth, and normal/average looks suffice for most men. It's not rare to find women like this, but it also means that 80% of men won't end up in a relationship with one, but they may have dated one if they were lucky.
> 
> Of course, my first marriage was mostly sexless, but I eventually moved on from that, which is when my current experience truly began.


I wonder what the actual percentages on this actually are? 

And you know they are differences between a super good looking guy and an average looking guy. 

But for me, I would say that the numbers were higher overall... I would say more than 40 percent if not higher. I just never really hung out with girls that did not like sex.

But then you have to ask the questions 1) are the just into sex because of NRE, 2) if you stayed with them for longer than a few weeks or months would it have changed? What are the real reasons? 

Most of the women that I have been with are totally into sex, but is that because consciously or subconsciously did not interact with the ones that were not into sex? 

Or did I just take what was coming my way and not really pursue the ones that were not in to me? 

So really I just don't know what the real answer to this is.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BluesPower said:


> I wonder what the actual percentages on this actually are?
> 
> And you know they are differences between a super good looking guy and an average looking guy.
> 
> ...


I liken it to the cliques in high school. The stoners tended to find each other and light up together. The jocks hung with jocks and cheerleaders. The motor heads hung out together tinkering until wee hours of night in the shop and as Michael Anthony Hall described in The Breakfast Club, the physics club would get together and talk about physics and then have a physics party at the end of the year.

I never (and still don't) hung out with the church girls or the sweet,innocent young things. 

I may not have ever dated strippers or the town Ho, but if a gal was too pure and chaste and seemingly asexual, she never showed up on my radar. 

Golfers like to hang with other golfers and fisherman like to hang with other fisherman. I do believe there are people that have similar interests and temperments in the realm of sex as well. 

If there is a woman with a core value and belief that sex is bad or dirty or simply unnecessary, we would probably not get much past 'hello.'


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Whoa... talk about marking your territory!
> 
> Recall all those jokes in the preteen movies where some girl touches a boy, maybe holds his hand, and he vows to never wash it again? I always thought that was silly... until the first time I got a couple fingers inside. I wanted to have immediate access to that smell wherever I went for as long as it could possibly last. Hell, I didn't even want to pick up _bacon _for fear the aroma would displace the ***** smell!


OT, but this brings up high school memories of a guy who had to make sure I knew he had fingered my prior, first, and puppy-love freshman girlfriend, letting me know about his conquest and acting like he would be smelling those fingers forever. And I'm like, what? Why? Too weird for words?

It would be several years before I had the opportunity myself, and honestly, sure, I can remember smelling my fingers and getting a whiff of her scent but seriously? It's supposed to be a big deal? My interest was making her feel good, exploring female sexuality. 

Fast-forward 45 years or so, but you don't really have to go anywhere near that far, and my wife's scent drives me crazy. Guess there really is something to that pheromone thing. If she's freshly showered, it's just not the same. She doesn't shower nearly as often as I do though, and usually in the mornings after I've gone to work. If I'm away for a while (typically my 11 day yearly trip to France to ride bikes during the 'Tour) sex with my wife is never on my brain. Sex in general isn't thought of much. But when home, totally different thing. I do think it's her smell. It sounds more romantic to suggest it's her presence.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

So things have changed in the nature of our VHD/LD situation. For a while frequency and to a small extent her enjoyment had improved after going through a few books and basically working things out so she understood that, a happier me created an environment for a happier her. But we hit a roadblock when it became clear just how focused she is on the moment, how little she anticipates pleasure, and in general her ability to say she understands something is an issue and will work on it, but within two days that conversation never happened. 

So I switched my thinking a bit and worked in nightly massage. Full-body massage. Maybe 20-30 minutes. Including foot massage which, she says, feels like she's walking on a cloud. I do this every single night without fail, and it's led to a much better experience with sex. Possibly 1/3rd of the time it actually puts her in the mood. We're talking twice a week "in the mood" vs otherwise, it could be once a month, if that? And it opens her up to talking... just talking... about her day, what's on her mind, without the rancor/vindictiveness that is often her calling card.

We're using coconut oil (100%, the stuff that turns liquid at 77 degrees, nothing artificial about it), which works for massage and lube as well. It's not the ultimate lube but not bad.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Casual Observer said:


> So things have changed in the nature of our VHD/LD situation. For a while frequency and to a small extent her enjoyment had improved after going through a few books and basically working things out so she understood that, a happier me created an environment for a happier her. But we hit a roadblock when it became clear just how focused she is on the moment, how little she anticipates pleasure, and in general her ability to say she understands something is an issue and will work on it, but within two days that conversation never happened.
> 
> So I switched my thinking a bit and worked in nightly massage. Full-body massage. Maybe 20-30 minutes. Including foot massage which, she says, feels like she's walking on a cloud. I do this every single night without fail, and it's led to a much better experience with sex. Possibly 1/3rd of the time it actually puts her in the mood. We're talking twice a week "in the mood" vs otherwise, it could be once a month, if that? And it opens her up to talking... just talking... about her day, what's on her mind, without the rancor/vindictiveness that is often her calling card.
> 
> We're using coconut oil (100%, the stuff that turns liquid at 77 degrees, nothing artificial about it), which works for massage and lube as well. It's not the ultimate lube but not bad.


Nice work!:wink2:


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Casual Observer said:


> So things have changed in the nature of our VHD/LD situation. For a while frequency and to a small extent her enjoyment had improved after going through a few books and basically working things out so she understood that, a happier me created an environment for a happier her. But we hit a roadblock when it became clear just how focused she is on the moment, how little she anticipates pleasure, and in general her ability to say she understands something is an issue and will work on it, but within two days that conversation never happened.
> 
> So I switched my thinking a bit and worked in nightly massage. Full-body massage. Maybe 20-30 minutes. Including foot massage which, she says, feels like she's walking on a cloud. I do this every single night without fail, and it's led to a much better experience with sex. Possibly 1/3rd of the time it actually puts her in the mood. We're talking twice a week "in the mood" vs otherwise, it could be once a month, if that? And it opens her up to talking... just talking... about her day, what's on her mind, without the rancor/vindictiveness that is often her calling card.
> 
> We're using coconut oil (100%, the stuff that turns liquid at 77 degrees, nothing artificial about it), which works for massage and lube as well. It's not the ultimate lube but not bad.


Coconut oil is my wife's favorite lube.


----------



## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Coconut oil is my wife's favorite lube.


Supposedly its anti-bacterial qualities might not be good for internal use though, possibly causing yeast infections. That's not something that's been an issue for my wife; she's more of a UTI type of person. It's possible that doing a massage that ends up working in that area might be carrying something in that's causing trouble. Not sure.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Casual Observer said:


> Supposedly its anti-bacterial qualities might not be good for internal use though, possibly causing yeast infections. That's not something that's been an issue for my wife; she's more of a UTI type of person. It's possible that doing a massage that ends up working in that area might be carrying something in that's causing trouble. Not sure.


My wife's never had a yeast infection but she is also very prone to UTIs. No connection to the coconut oil, but yes, I do have to be careful what goes where when I give her a massage.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> My wife's never had a yeast infection but she is also very prone to UTIs. No connection to the coconut oil, but yes, I do have to be careful what goes where when I give her a massage.


Which is why any hand that will touch a ***** must be washed first. The ***** should be too, because when the fingers enter her they are going to pull in any thing present on her outer lips. 

Also, the thing with insisting on washing the kitty before any sexual activity is for his benefit.

Look - when a woman pees and wipes with TP, there are tiny bits of it that get stuck to her pink parts. You can’t even see them.

But you’ll taste them.

They are there.

If you are showered but have peed even once, you’ve got TP bits.

Wash the kitty and anything that goes inside of it every time!


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Faithful Wife said:


> Which is why any hand that will touch a ***** must be washed first. The ***** should be too, because when the fingers enter her they are going to pull in any thing present on her outer lips.
> 
> Also, the thing with insisting on washing the kitty before any sexual activity is for his benefit.
> 
> ...


Oh, yes. My wife and I are both quite fastidious when it comes to presexual hygiene. 

But it also even seems to be a bit of an aphrodisiac itself. There have been times when there was no indication of the potential for sex and I hop in the shower just because I need a shower, and step out to see her naked, spread-eagled form on the bed.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Which is why any hand that will touch a ***** must be washed first. The ***** should be too, because when the fingers enter her they are going to pull in any thing present on her outer lips.
> 
> Also, the thing with insisting on washing the kitty before any sexual activity is for his benefit.
> 
> ...


Truthfully I've not had issues with kitty cleanliness. But it does sound like an argument for keeping things closely-cropped and when I think about it, yes, there have been a few times when I've detected a bit that shouldn't be there, but it goes away soon and I've not had any attendant health issues that I'm aware of. But I can absolutely see issues where stuff gets "dragged in" that shouldn't be. Very good point. Thank you very much for just the right amount of TMI. Seriously. 

The only issue I've had, in terms of cleanliness & scent, has been doing back massages where I seem to be able to detect even the slightest scent from the, er, rear orifice.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

When doing a back massage it seems if you are jostling her organs around, it can sort of make a poof poot.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Two words: Japanese Washlet Toilets....Nobody will love you more intimately.

You will never understand how you lived without once you lived WITH it.






Best invention since the wheel and lightbulb.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

InMyPrime said:


> Two words: Japanese Washlet Toilets....Nobody will love you more intimately.
> 
> You will never understand how you lived without once you lived WITH it.
> 
> ...


Really great technology, but I wager it works for about a year before it malfunctions.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

InMyPrime said:


> Two words: Japanese Washlet Toilets....Nobody will love you more intimately.
> 
> You will never understand how you lived without once you lived WITH it.
> 
> ...


No. This isn’t going to wash crevices that need washed. This is great for feeling fresh after going, but no way clean enough for sex.

There’s no reason a person can’t jump under hot water in the shower for 2 minutes and wash thoroughly before sex. If you have used the bathroom since you last showered, just jump in there and wash up.

Unless you are in the car or something. In that case you just don’t go down on each other unless for some reason you showered before getting in the car.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

*HD &amp; LD. What The Bleep?*



StarFires said:


> Really great technology, but I wager it works for about a year before it malfunctions.



We have had those for 6 years now around the house in 4 different bathrooms....And Japan has them everywhere as a standard in restaurants and public toilets. They actually are pretty unbreakable.
The cheap copycat brands may break, Toto doesn’t. They not only clean you, they will even clean themselves.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Faithful Wife said:


> No. This isn’t going to wash crevices that need washed. This is great for feeling fresh after going, but no way clean enough for sex.
> 
> There’s no reason a person can’t jump under hot water in the shower for 2 minutes and wash thoroughly before sex. If you have used the bathroom since you last showered, just jump in there and wash up.
> 
> Unless you are in the car or something. In that case you just don’t go down on each other unless for some reason you showered before getting in the car.



For crevices, just put it in oscillation mode and you will never leave the bathroom...

No of course they won’t replace a shower...(they won’t shampoo your hair for example...unless you sit upside down...) but you won’t need to use toilet paper again. The stream settings are incredibly thorough...and last longer than any tongue so actually you may not even need oral sex either after this...That’s what I’m told anyway...



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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

StarFires said:


> Excellent point. A ticked off wife or girlfriend is much less receptive. In some cases of resentment, she can't stand even the thought of him touching her. Until he/she/they remedy that factor, she would easily be labeled as frigid or low drive.


It's not just women who desire less sex when they are resentful, men do as well. Men chose to make their marriage sexless as often as women do. Here's a link to a thread that address this topic. I also included below a link to a very good book on the topic.

https://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/350970-sex-starved-wife.html

Why Men Stop Having Sex: Men, the Phenomenon of Sexless Relationships, and What You Can Do About It


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> When doing a back massage it seems if you are jostling her organs around, it can sort of make a poof poot.


:laugh:


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> It's not just women who desire less sex when they are resentful, men do as well. Men chose to make their marriage sexless as often as women do. Here's a link to a thread that address this topic. I also included below a link to a very good book on the topic.
> 
> https://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/350970-sex-starved-wife.html
> 
> Why Men Stop Having Sex: Men, the Phenomenon of Sexless Relationships, and What You Can Do About It


Yup. Unfortunately that is what is still occuring with us.

I could have had her last night and this morning but I am fighting through mixed emotions and my own demons.

It is almost like there are a bunch of enemies in the room with us at any given moment that I have to fight and overcome just to have good sex with my wife.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

EleGirl said:


> It's not just women who desire less sex when they are resentful, men do as well. Men chose to make their marriage sexless as often as women do. Here's a link to a thread that address this topic. I also included below a link to a very good book on the topic.
> 
> https://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/350970-sex-starved-wife.html
> 
> Why Men Stop Having Sex: Men, the Phenomenon of Sexless Relationships, and What You Can Do About It


Yes, men do as well. I would have acknowledged that if the topic were about what men do, but we were talking about what women do.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> Yup. Unfortunately that is what is still occuring with us.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nothing that a little blue pill won’t be able to fix  or so I have heard.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

*Re: HD &amp; LD. What The Bleep?*



InMyPrime said:


> We have had those for 6 years now around the house in 4 different bathrooms....And Japan has them everywhere as a standard in restaurants and public toilets. They actually are pretty unbreakable.
> The cheap copycat brands may break, Toto doesn’t. They not only clean you, they will even clean themselves.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good to know. I'm leery of so many different electronic gadgetry and movable parts. They usually malfunction in no time at all and then cost as much to repair as the initial purchase darned near. Six years is way more than I would have given it, but it's going to happen compared to having to fix a toilet flush valve for $8 or $9 every 10-15 years.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> Yup. Unfortunately that is what is still occuring with us.
> 
> I could have had her last night and this morning but I am fighting through mixed emotions and my own demons.
> 
> It is almost like there are a bunch of enemies in the room with us at any given moment that I have to fight and overcome just to have good sex with my wife.


What causes you to feel that way? Anything the members can help with? Or a counselor?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

StarFires said:


> What causes you to feel that way? Anything the members can help with? Or a counselor?


I'm dealing with PTSD which was partially brought on by an incident that she wasn't directly responsible for but that I never would have been in without her emotionally blackmailing me and screwing us both over because she made a unilateral decision for us that was mostly stupid and selfish.
I'm seriously considering counseling but it is hard given our schedule.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> It's not just women who desire less sex when they are resentful, men do as well. Men chose to make their marriage sexless as often as women do. Here's a link to a thread that address this topic. I also included below a link to a very good book on the topic.


Add me to the list. We are now sexless at my insistence.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

*Re: HD &amp; LD. What The Bleep?*



Faithful Wife said:


> No. This isn’t going to wash crevices that need washed. This is great for feeling fresh after going, but no way clean enough for sex.


For someone so sex positive, this ( dare I say ) preoccupation with cleanliness before sex would be a big turnoff for me. 

Camping sex is some of the best around in my world. 



Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

*Re: HD &amp; LD. What The Bleep?*



Cletus said:


> For someone so sex positive, this ( dare I say ) preoccupation with cleanliness before sex would be a big turnoff for me.
> 
> Camping sex is some of the best around in my world.
> 
> ...


A **** that has been camping with no shower for a week is definitely not some of the best around in my world. 

However, I don’t camp anymore anyway so that’s literally impossible to happen to me.

I haven’t had any complaints from any man so far. The one who wanted me a little more funky and threatened to take me camping is still telling anyone who hears about me that it was the best sex he’s ever had or most likely ever will. Pretty sure he could see I was simply taking care of my vagina by making sure that anything that goes inside of it is clean. It’s not like I made some big show about it. It’s very simple to wash up first and he was more than happy to, especially since I was willing and enthusiastic about anything he wanted to do.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

StarFires said:


> Yes, men do as well. I would have acknowledged that if the topic were about what men do, but we were talking about what women do.


I do get this, but 90% of the time I can resort to my "ignore sh!!" button, if the urge is there.

We have a pattern that we use which is "let's be mad again in a little while" or my go to which is "you can still be mad, let's just take a little break from hostilities".

But there are times when I agree with @ConanHub I'm a little too aggravated. The good news is it's mostly me doing the aggravating.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

*Re: HD &amp; LD. What The Bleep?*



Faithful Wife said:


> I haven’t had any complaints from any man so far.


I'm sure you're quite good, and worth the price of admission. 

But I like to see that even the most open of us have our little pecadillos and quirks that others might find a bit odd. I read your posts and said to myself "Hmm, never been with a woman like that. That's interesting".


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > I haven’t had any complaints from any man so far.
> ...


Oh yeah, for sure. I have some other ones, too. 

Some of the quirks of the lovers I’ve had ranged from endearing to strange to wtf.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

That massage thing worked pretty well for quite a few years. Complacency set in. I stopped massaging when she started reading while I was massaging. (and you thought I was exaggerating about the swamp wood).

There was a moment in here when I thought that someone was going to say that every person has a spark within bur they were talking only about the instigator. I think that is the whole problem with the spark theory. The instigator is not bringing the spark. he/she is just fanning it into a fire. If the instigatee has no spark, all fanning will do is make them colder.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > I haven’t had any complaints from any man so far.
> ...


Random addition to this thread jack...

I don’t mind a sweaty man. If I’m into a guy, his scent is good to me and even when it combines with his sweat it’s good. Now there’s times when it’s just a total funk and a shower is necessary. But not always. If he had showered in the morning and then chopped some wood (of course having washed his hands first) I was down for getting a drilling from the sweaty lumberjack. His **** still would be clean (the TP bits problem doesn’t apply to men) and his sweaty body didn’t turn me off at all.

Similarly when dancing, you get sweaty AF but if you have showered recently, it won’t be funky sweat. And I’ve been literally soaked by a man’s sweat (with plenty of my own running down my face and back) many times. These are men at social dancing, not lovers. Since everyone is sweating and you can’t help it, you just accept getting drenched in each other’s sweat as a part of dance culture. It just happens. Not every time but in the summer almost every time.

Whereas I’ve had non dance friends go out with me and see me dance a mad salsa with some dude, and she says I’m so jealous you get to dance like that but no way I’d be ok with that dude sweating all over me. I’m like yeah, you’re a priss, I get it. Lolz


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Mr. Nail said:


> That massage thing worked pretty well for quite a few years. Complacency set in. I stopped massaging when she started reading while I was massaging. (and you thought I was exaggerating about the swamp wood).
> 
> There was a moment in here when I thought that someone was going to say that every person has a spark within bur they were talking only about the instigator. I think that is the whole problem with the spark theory. The instigator is not bringing the spark. he/she is just fanning it into a fire. If the instigatee has no spark, all fanning will do is make them colder.


I could see my wife reading a book during sex before doing it during a massage. She gets into the latter wayyyyy too much. My gawd, if I got half the moans from sex that I get from a massage....


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> I could see my wife reading a book during sex before doing it during a massage. She gets into the latter wayyyyy too much. My gawd, if I got half the moans from sex that I get from a massage....


Do you secretly record her moans during a massage and listen to them for "personal use" later? >


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> Do you secretly record her moans during a massage and listen to them for "personal use" later? >


Good Idea! Along with some of her sleep talking.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Mr. Nail said:


> There was a moment in here when I thought that someone was going to say that every person has a spark within bur they were talking only about the instigator. I think that is the whole problem with the spark theory. The instigator is not bringing the spark. he/she is just fanning it into a fire. If the instigatee has no spark, all fanning will do is make them colder.


I'm not sure that I would agree that there has to be a spark in the person to get things going. I think that implies that there is some active, ongoing sexual interest in the LD person. I don't always think that's the case. Some people have zero sexual thoughts on a regular basis, but they may still be receptive to sexual advances. Some people are more like dry kindling which easily reacts to a spark, while others are like soaked wood which needs a significant amount of heat or effort before it can catch fire.

I think the marriage-killing problems come about when the LD acts like they don't have to be engaged in making themselves more receptive. If your wife fills her day with so many stressful activities that she doesn't have time for the massage or can't relax during the massage, that's a big problem. Or if she does things to actively hinder your efforts (like read a book), that's also a big problem. It shows she's leaving everything up to you to figure out and get her in the mood.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Faithful Wife said:


> Do you secretly record her moans during a massage and listen to them for "personal use" later? >


Okay, so it's only Monday, but I'm pretty sure that's gonna be my best chuckle of the week!


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Okay, so it's only Monday, but I'm pretty sure that's gonna be my best chuckle of the week!


I just had a flash back of a time when I was about 12 or 13. Not sexually active of course, but was old enough to be feeling the tingles and swelling and other signs of arousal. I had a 45 record of some John Lennon song. The B side was something he and Yoko had put together, and I listened to it out of curiosity, had no idea what to expect.

OMG, it was basically a recording of them, or HER, having sex. Literally.

It just sounded like what we now do when we are mocking women in a bad porno. Oh, oh OHHHH, UGH, oh oh OHHHHH, no, oh oh OHHHHHhhhhHHHH AHAHHHHHHHhhhhayeeee......and so forth.

I immediately pulled the needle off the record before my mother heard it, I was shocked and embarrassed! I had never heard anything like this before, if there was noises people made when they were having sex under the covers on TV shows it was VERY subdued compared to this.

But I also had an instant girl boner, like nothing before. I realized immediately that the sounds she was making were because she felt a headache in her crotch like I was feeling at that moment. :grin2:


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

We are super schedulely and very rarely spontaneous (works for us, I know it doesn’t for most people) but I’m not sure the showering every time thing would work for us. So, whatever it takes is cool.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Do you secretly record her moans during a massage and listen to them for "personal use" later? >


Is this allowed or does this constitute an illegal activity even within a marriage?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Is this allowed or does this constitute an illegal activity even within a marriage?


Sadly, I'm pretty sure Rocky's wife would not be happy about it so.....nope, it is not allowed (was not consented to). :frown2:

Doubt it is illegal unless under wiretapping or something. 0


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> My gawd, if I got half the moans from sex that I get from a massage....



Yes, I also moan like crazy whenever I massage my wife..

But to be fair, sex is just a kind of vaginal massage so maybe rename it to: ‘darling would you like my **** to massage you now?’ And maybe she will moan all the same. Alternatively you could have someone massage your wife, while you have sex with her at the same time and her moans might empower you...
Have I covered everything? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Sadly, I'm pretty sure Rocky's wife would not be happy about it so.....nope, it is not allowed (was not consented to). :frown2:
> 
> Doubt it is illegal unless under wiretapping or something. 0


Looks like it depends on where you live. Two-party consent states include California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Montana, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and Washington - even with your spouse. In every other state, only a single party has to agree to recording the conversation.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

InMyPrime said:


> But to be fair, sex is just a kind of vaginal massage so maybe rename it to:


What the hell - you mean I've been tricked into giving 90 minute massages with no sexual component whatsoever? 

I've been duped. Duped, I say.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

*Re: HD &amp; LD. What The Bleep?*



Cletus said:


> For someone so sex positive, this ( dare I say ) preoccupation with cleanliness before sex would be a big turnoff for me.
> 
> Camping sex is some of the best around in my world.


It all depends on whether or not oral is involved.

My wife likes clean. I can compromise a bit (but not a lot).


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

InMyPrime said:


> Yes, I also moan like crazy whenever I massage my wife..
> 
> But to be fair, sex is just a kind of vaginal massage so maybe rename it to: ‘darling would you like my **** to massage you now?’ And maybe she will moan all the same. Alternatively you could have someone massage your wife, while you have sex with her at the same time and her moans might empower you...
> Have I covered everything?
> ...


Actually, there have been times when she's requested a clitoral massage. She says I nuzzle her nub better than she can herself. But even then, not much moaning... best indications of what she's feeling come from changes in breathing, but it's all quite quiet. 

For her to enjoy sex (in any form), there can be no distractions whatsoever. We don't play music during. We don't talk during. And we sure as heck don't go for any midstream position changes. Nothing can be allowed to intrude or she'll lose her mojo. Her vocalizing in any manner is a distraction to her and she really needs to focus. 

(a third party would also be the greatest of distractions, which is good as that's beyond my boundaries as well)


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

*HD &amp; LD. What The Bleep?*



Cletus said:


> Is this allowed or does this constitute an illegal activity even within a marriage?



It reminds me...When we had our first baby, we bought those baby monitors. Once our daughter fell asleep nothing would wake her up so we sometimes (often!) had sex in the same room, especially when both my parents and my parents in law were visiting (it had to be same room as all our other sex rooms were occupied with guests...) One night we forgot to switch it off and went to bed earlier than everyone else, while leaving the other monitor in the living room for everyone to hear...
Unfortunately it was a particularly kinky night with some role playing and a bit of humiliation...
Next morning at breakfast time it was bit awkward...and a different kind of humiliation.
Luckily they only heard the foreplay...my mother was quick to turn it off before the spanking ensued.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> I just had a flash back of a time when I was about 12 or 13. Not sexually active of course, but was old enough to be feeling the tingles and swelling and other signs of arousal. I had a 45 record of some John Lennon song. The B side was something he and Yoko had put together, and I listened to it out of curiosity, had no idea what to expect.
> 
> OMG, it was basically a recording of them, or HER, having sex. Literally.


Life with the Lions?

Had the album, didn't know that there was a 45.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

*HD &amp; LD. What The Bleep?*



Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Actually, there have been times when she's requested a clitoral massage. She says I nuzzle her nub better than she can herself. But even then, not much moaning... best indications of what she's feeling come from changes in breathing, but it's all quite quiet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don’t understand this type of sex...I mean I can imagine it but would find it very patronising (to my manhood).
I mean my wife can be a bit control freaky too, but if there’s this type of mood when my belt comes off, my belt is used until there’s no such mood...
She needs to learn how to submit and just ‘go with the flow’. It’s better for the environment, with all that climax change going on 


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----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

*Re: HD &amp; LD. What The Bleep?*



Buddy400 said:


> It all depends on whether or not oral is involved.
> 
> 
> 
> My wife likes clean. I can compromise a bit (but not a lot).



How do you think cats clean themselves? There are no dirty   , only lazy tongues, as we say around here 


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Looks like it depends on where you live. Two-party consent states include California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Montana, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and Washington - even with your spouse. In every other state, only a single party has to agree to recording the conversation.


Is someone moaning while getting a massage a "conversation"? We could perhaps get Rocky off on a technicality.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

*Re: HD &amp; LD. What The Bleep?*



Buddy400 said:


> It all depends on whether or not oral is involved.


Oral is NEVER involved, unless you meant my whinging a lot.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Faithful Wife said:


> Is someone moaning while getting a massage a "conversation"? We could perhaps *get Rocky off* on a technicality.


Word choice!!! Freudian slip? :surprise:


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Is someone moaning while getting a massage a "conversation"? We could perhaps get Rocky off on a technicality.


As long as SOMEONE is getting Rocky off.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Actually, there have been times when she's requested a clitoral massage. She says I nuzzle her nub better than she can herself. But even then, not much moaning... best indications of what she's feeling come from changes in breathing, but it's all quite quiet.
> 
> For her to enjoy sex (in any form), there can be no distractions whatsoever. We don't play music during. We don't talk during. And we sure as heck don't go for any midstream position changes. Nothing can be allowed to intrude or she'll lose her mojo. Her vocalizing in any manner is a distraction to her and *she really needs to focus*.
> 
> (a third party would also be the greatest of distractions, which is good as that's beyond my boundaries as well)


Hmmm. Needs to focus.

On getting to an O? Is that the only goal of sex for her?

Is the entire time spent getting her to an O?

Confusing.

I don't "focus" necessarily, in fact, quite a lot of the time I feel quite dreamy and out of focus, floaty, expansive. Sometimes I try to talk and realize I'm mumbling and barely audible, because I'm so far down yummy lane....which to me is not the same as a path to orgasm.

If I'm doubling down on an O, I may need to focus for a bit and not be distracted, but this is not happening the entire time. Most of the time I'm dreamily riding the pony or he's riding me and I'm just focused on how beautiful it all is, taking in as much as I can.

How can you even feel connected with someone who cannot be "distracted" by your voice, your presence, just plain, you being there? Totally incomprehensible to me.

Though I did hear of a guy once who would close his eyes and go "deep into himself" while having sex with his gf (a friend of mine), which resulted for her in a guy who seemed to not even be there or acknowledge her presence. She tried working with him on it a few times, and he would say "I just can't keep going if I'm distracted at all" so she finally gave up.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Word choice!!! Freudian slip? :surprise:


You guys still haven't noticed that I have an incredibly dirty and funny mind? :surprise:


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Faithful Wife said:


> Hmmm. Needs to focus.
> 
> On getting to an O? Is that the only goal of sex for her?
> 
> ...


Not so much focusing on getting an O, which remains an iffy proposition anyway. She has her view of sex and anything outside that view is a distraction; a distraction from enjoying the act, independent of having or not having an orgasm. 

So maybe "focus" wasn't the right choice of words. Your first paragraph after the word "confusing" does seem to be a more accurate description.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Speaking of smells and showers...I think some people have much stronger BOs than others. So maybe it depends on that too. 
I think I’m quite licky that I don’t smell, even if I forget to use deodorant...I do shave my underarmpits and a bit ‘down there’ so maybe that can help to keep bacteria growth down.
It’s ok, I’m not threatened by my masculinity, I use a pink Venus Gillette shaver, to become a better man, as per the advert.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Not so much focusing on getting an O, which remains an iffy proposition anyway. She has her view of sex and anything outside that view is a distraction; a distraction from enjoying the act, independent of having or not having an orgasm.
> 
> So maybe "focus" wasn't the right choice of words. Your first paragraph after the word "confusing" does seem to be a more accurate description.


But even hearing your voice is a distraction? 

I guess so if her preconceived ideas of sex include that no one must be saying any words.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

InMyPrime said:


> Speaking of smells and showers...I think some people have much stronger BOs than others.


I'm picturing @faithfulwife spending 6 months in Europe, where showering even as much as once a day is usually considered extravagent and unnecessary, and the ambivalence of wanting/not wanting to bed a hot Italian hunk who hasn't seen fresh water in 3 days. 

Oh, the humanity.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Buddy400 said:


> Life with the Lions?
> 
> Had the album, didn't know that there was a 45.


I was curious so had to look it up.

The 45 was (Just like) Starting Over, and the b side was called Kiss, Kiss, Kiss by Yoko. Both were from the Double Fantasy album.

Just listened to the song again and it is worse than I remembered it (mostly in the last 20 seconds). Geez.

It did not make my crotch have a headache this time, though.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Cletus said:


> I'm picturing @faithfulwife spending 6 months in Europe, where showering even as much as once a day is usually considered extravagent and unnecessary, and the ambivalence of wanting/not wanting to bed a hot Italian hunk who hasn't seen fresh water in 3 days.
> 
> Oh, the humanity.


I'm sure I would have some different opinions on these things had I not been raised here in such a squeaky clean way. 

We had a sexy young male french teacher in HS who would make fun of us all for washing our hair so often. He said the natural oils from not washing it were good for your hair. We all said well sure but how the hell ya gonna get your mall bangs on if you haven't washed and dried and ironed and sprayed it?


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

InMyPrime said:


> Speaking of smells and showers...I think some people have much stronger BOs than others. So maybe it depends on that too.


And different people have a greater or lesser sense of smell. My wife has a highly developed sense of smell. Which is a curse. So many things smell bad to her, and if it smells bad she isn't getting near it. Even with showering and brushing teeth (and tongue) and cologne (the one she liked) and mouthwash (also the one she liked) there were many times that something about me turned her off and the opportunity for any sexual activity was gone.

In my next life I want to marry someone who is "nose blind".


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Holdingontoit said:


> And different people have a greater or lesser sense of smell. My wife has a highly developed sense of smell. Which is a curse. So many things smell bad to her, and if it smells bad she isn't getting near it. Even with showering and brushing teeth (and tongue) and cologne (the one she liked) and mouthwash (also the one she liked) there were many times that something about me turned her off and the opportunity for any sexual activity was gone.
> 
> 
> 
> In my next life I want to marry someone who is "nose blind".



Just marry someone who likes your smell next time...Smell is the MOST important determinant for selecting a successful sexual partner, I’m convinced of it. And blind dates should consist of people actually meeting with blindfolds on, in the dark, and sniffing each other...

I again refer the honourable gentleman to my feline companion: animals have it all figured out while us humans, **** about (or rather, don’t **** about because we are loosing our animalistic senses and identities).

I only used to think of two things (that I remember of) when selecting: 

1. Would I want to die with my head buried between that woman’s legs and

2. How likely is she to rip my heart out, eat it and spit it out

No2 is the hard one. Because no1 can overpower judgement of no2. In fact it does, more often than not.

You don’t need to know anything else.


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## Lost_identity (Jun 15, 2019)

HD then became LD due to relationship issues, work schedule and also rejection. Spouse was always LD. Kind of annoying tbh. Sometimes we do fluctuate and I think he initiated it then because I’ve had no desire?

To me HD is more than once in a day, a lot of spontaneous random moments of intimacy. Think of the passion when you were younger and trying not to get caught. LD is like 2x a week at most? 
We aren’t getting any younger and it would be a waste to lose all that endurance then. I had an ex who was HD and it was fun to have a guy initiate intimacy with a lot of spontaneity- a random midnight, waking you up kind of intimacy and not a set “always only before sleeping at night kind of intimacy”


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Lost_identity said:


> HD then became LD due to relationship issues, work schedule and also rejection. Spouse was always LD. Kind of annoying tbh. Sometimes we do fluctuate and I think he initiated it then because I’ve had no desire?
> 
> To me HD is more than once in a day, a lot of spontaneous random moments of intimacy. Think of the passion when you were younger and trying not to get caught. LD is like 2x a week at most?
> We aren’t getting any younger and it would be a waste to lose all that endurance then. I had an ex who was HD and it was fun to have a guy initiate intimacy with a lot of spontaneity- a random midnight, waking you up kind of intimacy and not a set “always only before sleeping at night kind of intimacy”


Had to look up your prior posts for context, since definitions of HD/LD may vary with age and length of marriage.  Having said that, at 63, I'm good with your definitions, but I think many my age might settle for less. 3x/week is about my minimum, by the way. Until recently, 1x/month might have been fine with my wife. Thankfully that's no longer the case for her.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Sex, mad, passionate and heavy was never our problem till he got ED. 
Oral was something we both enjoyed immensely. Now I notice he never does it and I have not inclination to either. His erections are quite fragile and I don't enjoy sex with him much anymore, there I said it. It is very obvious and he doesn't seem to enjoy it with me either. 
Anyway, out marriage is fragile too which may contribute substantially to the lack of sparks. Though I think sex is an important part of any marriage, I also find it difficult to sleep in the same room as him, he sleeps few hours, and twists and turns and I need my sleep, so I moved to another room, this of course has not helped. He is pissed off with me but I cannot do the job I do without continuous lack of sleep. He doesn't understand this. He is selfish with his time generally, so yes I have also decided to be selfish and do what makes me happy too. I am no longer the keeper of the marriage.

So my contribution is that when things are good in a marriage, sex should be awesome.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

aine said:


> Sex, mad, passionate and heavy was never our problem till he got ED.
> Oral was something we both enjoyed immensely. Now I notice he never does it and I have not inclination to either. His erections are quite fragile and I don't enjoy sex with him much anymore, there I said it. It is very obvious and he doesn't seem to enjoy it with me either.
> Anyway, out marriage is fragile too which may contribute substantially to the lack of sparks. Though I think sex is an important part of any marriage, I also find it difficult to sleep in the same room as him, he sleeps few hours, and twists and turns and I need my sleep, so I moved to another room, this of course has not helped. He is pissed off with me but I cannot do the job I do without continuous lack of sleep. He doesn't understand this. He is selfish with his time generally, so yes I have also decided to be selfish and do what makes me happy too. I am no longer the keeper of the marriage.
> 
> So my contribution is that when things are good in a marriage, sex should be awesome.



Slippery slope...


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

aine said:


> Sex, mad, passionate and heavy was never our problem till he got ED.
> Oral was something we both enjoyed immensely. Now I notice he never does it and I have not inclination to either. His erections are quite fragile and I don't enjoy sex with him much anymore, there I said it. It is very obvious and he doesn't seem to enjoy it with me either.
> Anyway, out marriage is fragile too which may contribute substantially to the lack of sparks. Though I think sex is an important part of any marriage, I also find it difficult to sleep in the same room as him, he sleeps few hours, and twists and turns and I need my sleep, so I moved to another room, this of course has not helped. He is pissed off with me but I cannot do the job I do without continuous lack of sleep. He doesn't understand this. He is selfish with his time generally, so yes I have also decided to be selfish and do what makes me happy too. I am no longer the keeper of the marriage.
> 
> So my contribution is that when things are good in a marriage, sex should be awesome.


Wow. This sounds like a story that doesn't have a happy ending without something changing. Oral going off the table simultaneously with ED sounds like a really bad sign. Any idea what brought on the ED?


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

On ED, my wife just initiated sex, “Are you going to take a pill?” I said yes, was just about to after I take shower (unrelated to the sex, sorry @faithfulwife). 

Then I had to laugh when she said “good, as there will be a blow job I’ll brush my teeth while you shower.” Um, OK.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

CharlieParker said:


> On ED, my wife just initiated sex, “Are you going to take a pill?” I said yes, was just about to after I take shower (unrelated to the sex, sorry @faithfulwife).
> 
> 
> 
> Then I had to laugh when she said “good, as there will be a blow job I’ll brush my teeth while you shower.” Um, OK.



Tell her she must floss. Blowjobs are not a good substitute for flossing.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

InMyPrime said:


> Tell her she must floss. Blowjobs are not a good substitute for flossing.


True, but cunnilingus... never mind.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

CharlieParker said:


> Then I had to laugh when she said “good, as there will be a blow job I’ll brush my teeth while you shower.” Um, OK.



“There will be a blowjob”....I hate it when they are so unspecific. Who is the blowjob for? When will it take place? Would one need to clean up after the guy? Etc etc.
How can one ever lead a normal life when the instructions are so nebulous....



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