# Mixed orientation marriages



## calvinandhobbes (Jul 11, 2014)

Perhaps this is as good as it gets. After all, what is ‘a successful Mixed orientation Marriage’? We've just reached the first anniversary of my wife’s coming out as a lesbian. And we’re still together, still exclusive and faithful to each other, and intending to continue that way.

What a year of trauma it has been, mostly for me, but some for her too. The ‘d’ word has been spoken, divorce. We’ve looked at all the other options: an open marriage, one side or both. Perhaps we’re going for the hardest option, or perhaps it’s the easiest, the one involving the least change. We both felt too old to start new lives. After all, there’s no guarantee of finding a better, more compatible partner if we separate. We’ve invested a lot, most of our lives, in THIS relationship. And there’s a lot of good in it. We like each other; we talk together, we do things together (and apart). But we’ve never had much of a sex life, and now we have none.

We’ve agreed on a weekly cuddle, on a fixed time and day, and being the eternal optimist that I am, I can’t help hoping that this may become a little more… But I think that for now, my wife simply isn’t able to give any more. Her long (30 years!!) struggles against her lesbian attractions and nature has left her asexual. So there’s very little of the intimacy that for me is such an important part of a marriage. The total giving and opening up, the vulnerability, the no hold-back, the intimacy, the desire for the beloved other. And we’re both mourning this sexual component of a loving relationship that we’ve never known and will never know if we stay together as we plan to.

But there’s a very deep intimacy all the same. She trusted me, she shared with me her deepest struggle, her darkest secret. We are friends and perhaps even lovers, but without the sex. Can this be enough for me? And for her? We’ll see. But it’s already a lot. But I have to learn to live with the present, with what I have, rather than dreaming of some future and improbable miraculous change. This can be a good day, with lots of good things in it, even without sex. Perhaps this is as good as it gets, and this is success, not the miracle that I have long searched for on the web, in trying to apply to our situation, our relationship, someone else’s experience. With some magical way of arousing a lesbian who has no desire for me at all, but a lot of tenderness and affection all the same. There are no secrets, and there is trust. That’s a pretty rare and precious gift too. There are no guarantees for the future – but that’s true of every marriage. Ours are just lived with a far greater realism about the fragility of all relationships.

But I'm deeply depressed (on anti-depressants) and discouraged. There seems to be almost no progress, little hope. Most MOMs end in divorce, and there's next to nothing on the web about or for str8 men married to lesbians, where there's masses of fora and material for women married to gay men.

Brassyhub (Andrew)


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Hmmm. I wish you well, I truly do. But even though you can be great friends, it doesn't mean you have to stay married. After all, I'm not married to many of my good friends. 

To me, one of the key aspects of marriage is the intimacy part, and yes, that includes (but is not limited to) sex. Otherwise, you at best have a really good friend. If you're ok with that based on where you both are in your lives, that's great. But the fact that you're deeply depressed, have no hope, etc says you're not ok with it. Are you seeing a counselor? Or just trying to fix things with medications?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Spacecase (May 23, 2014)

Wow, I can't even imagine how much that hurts. I agree fully with PBear. Is it really a marriage if one or both of you are seeing others on the side? Divorce is not the end of the world. After all, if you stay together but see other people for the intimate portion of the marriage, it is still going against what marriage is about.


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## calvinandhobbes (Jul 11, 2014)

She's been in counseling for ages, and for the last year, I've been seeing a therapist, who has sometimes seen us together.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening.
I"m very sorry for your situation. If she is lesbian and not bi - eg if she no longer wants to be intimate with you, I hope / assume she is willing to have an open relationship.

You have every right to leave with a clear conscience if you wish, but no one can tell you what you should do.


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## calvinandhobbes (Jul 11, 2014)

Neither of us is seeing someone else. I love her. She had one brief lesbian affair many years ago.


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## calvinandhobbes (Jul 11, 2014)

I know that I have the 'right' to leave, but this is the woman that I want to grow old with. What I'm looking for here is not sympathy or advice, but rather other men what are struggling with the same kind of dilemma. Even a very small compromise on her part would be enough for me, but she seems to be genuinely unable to give anything.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

What "compromise" do you want from her?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MarriedManInHis40s (Mar 28, 2013)

calvinandhobbes said:


> I know that I have the 'right' to leave, but this is the woman that I want to grow old with. What I'm looking for here is not sympathy or advice, but rather other men what are struggling with the same kind of dilemma. Even* a very small compromise on her part* would be enough for me, but she seems to be genuinely unable to give anything.


I'm not sure what sort of answers you're expecting to hear. Your wife is a lesbian. That means she is not attracted to men. That means she is no more interested in sleeping with a man than you are. 

Would you consider it a "very small compromise on your part" if you (for some reason) had to sleep with a man every now and again in order to preserve your marriage?


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## calvinandhobbes (Jul 11, 2014)

She chose to marry me; she loves me, at least in her own way. Is a marriage with no intimacy at all still a marriage? Are you saying that there's no hope of making this relationship 'work' unless I just accept to give up any hope of ever having any sexual connection with my wife?


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

calvinandhobbes said:


> She chose to marry me; she loves me, at least in her own way. Is a marriage with no intimacy at all still a marriage? Are you saying that there's no hope of making this relationship 'work' unless I just accept to give up any hope of ever having any sexual connection with my wife?


How would any of us know? 

It sounds like you never had much of a sexual connection and now it's gone altogether. And she's a lesbian. I don't understand what you're hoping for.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

She's not interested in you sexually. This isn't a case of low desire. It's no desire for you. That's what your marriage will be like for the rest of your life. Roommates. If you are willing t accept that then your marriage will go on.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I don't understand how there is any trust at all unless you knew all these years she was a lesbian. 

This is not a marriage now, you're simply roomates.

If I read this correctly, it sounds like you've been scamed.

You're depressed, you're medicated, your wife had an affair. What you are doing is not workiing for you or her.

How old are you? What kind of physical condition are you both in?


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## Max.HeadRoom (Jun 28, 2014)

This may not be helpful… and may even get me slapped.

I was in a tough marriage with a woman who was in a wheel chair, she was that way when we meet. For 8 years she was my greatest friend and 11 years as my wife; it was VERY tough at times. I could never have left her. But in 2002 she left me by dying. It was tough but since then I have found love/sex with a gal that is also my best friend. The heights of this new life (7 years married now) is beyond anything I could have ever imagined. 

I still miss my 1st friend. You have a chance to find something new and Keep the good friend as a friend.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

You need a divorce. You need to let go. Just remain friends.

Do this, and I think your depression will lift very quickly.


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## calvinandhobbes (Jul 11, 2014)

We're from a time and a generation where for my wife, being a lesbian and living in a lesbian relationship was unthinkable. So she was living in denial, and it took all this time for her to be honest with herself and then with me. We have looked honestly at the alternatives. There aren't that many. And when I thought about what I really want, it is to grow old with the woman I married and still love.
I understand that may seem crazy, unthinkable. But it's what I really want. I understand that we'll be a very small minority of the very small minority that seriously try to make Mixed Orientation Marriages work. I understand that the easiest advice to give is to head for the door asap. But I'm looking for ideas and examples that could help us work it out, not separate.
Someone asked 'what kind of compromise?' I hope that it's not too crude, but mutual masturbation would be a great step forward for me!


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

How old are you two?

Any kids?

Does she have someone else in mind? If not, how do you know for sure? How did you confirm?


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

If your wife is truly a lesbian, she's not going to find the idea of mutual masturbation appealing. I love my female friends dearly but the thought of mutual masturbation with them makes me a little queasy.

Why such resistance to an open relationship?


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

you do seem to be loving room mates, and that is all good. But why, if she is not heterosexual anymore...do you two not allow other partners in to the sex equation? 

Asexual...if that is what she really wants, is ok for her. But what about your needs? A cuddle? she should let you find a buddy to play around with, with her full knowledge.

And if I were you, I would encourage her to find a stable, clean, lesbian partner too for a once in a while tryst. 

Maybe you can work out a FMF with her so both of you are simultaneously satisfied.

Unless you want to join the "monastery", you will need a sex partner!


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

So what does she say when you suggest mutual masturbation? Perhaps she's repressed her sexuality so hard over the years that she really doesn't have an interest in firing it back up?

Personally, I can think of worse things than watching lesbian porn and spanking one with my partner. If that works for you and you can convince her, rock on!

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

You are a really nice man. But it seems to me that this is asking too much of you. It isn't fair. I don't know if your wife is asexual if she acknowledges her lesbian feelings. That would be the reason she isn't having sex with you. She isn't into men.

Nice guys fuel themselves with misplaced hope.

Darlin', accept that your sexual days are over.

How does that stark but true knowledge feel?

If it feels hopeless, is it really? The situation is hopeless but you can make other choices.

If she will not have sex with you then she is not being loving in return for all you are doing. And I could understand if you would understand her reasons and agree that she shouldn't have to. But thing is, making you miserable so she can keep everything isn't loving for her to do. 

Maybe you both need more time. But I really think a divorce is the only sustainable solution.


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

yes, maybe she is only asexual around you, but hopping on any woman who walks by?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

murphy5 said:


> yes, maybe she is only asexual around you, but hopping on any woman who walks by?


I wonder if she has another lover, male or female. We have seen too many trusted spouses doing that to rule it out.


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

Chaparral said:


> I wonder if she has another lover, male or female. We have seen too many trusted spouses doing that to rule it out.


and mentally, that would be a pretty good excuse to use on yourself: "i had to cheat with her, i am lesbian and will not be repressed by my male (yetch) husband any more!"


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Calvin....yes I think your 'marriage' (and I use the term loosely for obvious reasons) can continue to work providing you are happy to accept that your wife probably won't EVER be sexually intimate with you again....and if you keep to your marriage marriage vows YOU will never have sex again. If you are happy to give up sex completely to stay with your wife then I am not sure whether to admire you or call you plain barmy.

Ultimately the choice is yours. But if you are a normal heterosexual man who is not getting 'any' believe me you will start resenting your wife big time.
Husbands and wifes are supposed to be sexually intimate...


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## changedbeliefs (Jun 13, 2014)

You're not choosing the hardest way, you're choosing the most impractical way. Your marriage is over. People change. Don't pull the "she chose to marry me" line. This just in: people make wrong decisions ALL the time. To think we don't make the wrong choice when we get married, just because, "well, you promised, for better or worse!" is one of my least-liked mantras we throw around. No, you shouldn't drop a marriage at the first sign of struggle. You don't sell a car when one thing breaks. You don't quit a job after your first hard day. You don't give up on things just because they' hard.....but for the love of Zeus......EVERYTHING has a limit where it's simply an unwise choice to attempt to continue. Your wife doesn't like your entire GENDER anymore. I'm sorry, OP, but the marriage either needs to go down a very nontraditional route from here on, or end.


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## MarriedManInHis40s (Mar 28, 2013)

calvinandhobbes said:


> Someone asked 'what kind of compromise?' I hope that it's not too crude, but mutual masturbation would be a great step forward for me!


Again, what seems like a "small compromise" to you might not be so small for your wife. What if you (for some reason) needed to engage in mutual masturbation sessions with another man (a gay one, who is getting off on watching you) in order to help your marriage? 

You are unlikely to find much support here, not because we are unkind or unsympathetic, but simply because there is probably nobody here who would even consider trying to make it work in such a situation (let alone having positive experience to share). (I'm sure there are other support forums on the internet more specifically devoted to this issue within a marriage). I more typically hear about couples where the man comes out as gay... usually the woman tries to make it work and usually it ends in divorce. 

I'm definitely in the "be who you are" camp. You are not letting your wife do that. Lovingly let her go and be friends. (perhaps you can find a woman who has been dropped by a gay husband).


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## MarriedManInHis40s (Mar 28, 2013)

calvinandhobbes said:


> And when I thought about what I really want, it is to grow old with the woman I married and still love.
> I understand that may seem crazy, unthinkable. But it's what I really want.


I'm not trying to be harsh here, but you speak of what you want.

What does she want?


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

calvinandhobbes said:


> Perhaps this is as good as it gets. After all, what is ‘a successful Mixed orientation Marriage’?
> *Are you happy? Is she happy?*
> We've just reached the first anniversary of my wife’s coming out as a lesbian. And we’re still together, still exclusive and faithful to each other, and intending to continue that way.
> *Should be the end of the thread now with sentence two, for intending indicates that you have reached a decision.*
> ...


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

calvinandhobbes said:


> We’ve agreed on a weekly cuddle, on a fixed time and day,



I'm sorry, and I don't want to sound harsh, but the above statement is one of the most pathetic things I have read in my entire life.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

ugh
How do you wake up one day in your 20s/30s and say "holy crap, Im a lesbian"...she knew all along and still married someone, thats ridiculous...unless she told you early on and in that case you made your own bed Im afraid

I would Divorce and just be best friends, I would think it would make you closer...i cant imagine a marriage like that


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## calvinandhobbes (Jul 11, 2014)

I'm 67, we have no kids. And I have total trust in her. That's the only intimacy that we have! She's told me the deepest truth about herself. But the lesbian label is hers, not mine.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

So someone tells you something they should babe told you a long time ago, before they stole so much of your life, and you are so flattered that you want to sacrifice the rest of your sexual life for them?

Do you feel guilty about something perhaps?


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## calvinandhobbes (Jul 11, 2014)

I still love my wife. When I think about 'me' and not 'we', what I most want - still - is to grow old(er) with the woman that I love.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

And just be friends.

That's fine but then knock off feeling bad you aren't going to get sex.

You are choosing this.

That's the deal.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Is your depression something you have had in the past in addition to the present?


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## MarriedManInHis40s (Mar 28, 2013)

calvinandhobbes said:


> I still love my wife. When I think about 'me' and not 'we', what I most want - still - is to grow old(er) with the woman that I love.


OK, fine. However, the advice that we are (I think) unanimously giving you is stop pestering your wife for something she does not want - and is not capable of wanting - to give you. (ie: any kind of sex). You're only making each other miserable.

If you need female sexual companionship, get it outside the marriage. Tell your wife about it, she'll probably be happy for you (how could she feel otherwise?)


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

MarriedManInHis40s said:


> If you need female sexual companionship, get it outside the marriage. Tell your wife about it, she'll probably be happy for you (how could she feel otherwise?)


better yet, have her bring one of her bisexual girlfriends into the equation. that way you can be together, cuddle, whatever, and your Johnson will not wither away and petrify either.

Or, if you are that Beta, tell her you enjoy a cuckold relationship with her, where she has all the lesbian sex she can, and you can only listen to her outside of the bedroom door.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

wow those are some really short sighted ideas , guys. 

jealousy can happen even in the absence of sexual jealousy. Jealousy is about for losing something that you have 

if he starts having sex with someone else he is likely to fall in love and leave her. Do you think she would want to risk that even if she doesn't want to have sex with him herself? of course not or they wouldn't be in this situation the first place because she would have left him. 

secondly the idea of bringing another woman into the bedroom is just so typical of man thinking. 

she doesn't want to have sex with him. Why does bringing another woman into the picture help? All I will do is make her jealous of the other woman who would presumably have to be bisexual to want to be with him and to remind him of what she wants to give to somebody else and not him.

it should you a shin were really that simple and people didn't have emotional attachment and attachments and didn't fallin love may be thinking with your **** will get you where you wanna go. But for most relationships it doesn't work. 

how could she be anything but happy for him? Oy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

clipclop2 said:


> wow those are some really short sighted ideas , guys.
> 
> jealousy can happen even in the absence of sexual jealousy. Jealousy is about for losing something that you have
> 
> ...


This is assuming she isn't having sex with someone else already. I seriously doubt that.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

So you believe she is cheating?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

No but I think its Good possibility. I dont believe after all this time she decided she couldnt stomach having sex with him anymore. Then it could be a case of poor counseling too.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Btw, cheaters often cut their partners off to stay faithful to their new partner.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

I'm aware of that but I just don't see any supporting evidence in this case.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calvinandhobbes (Jul 11, 2014)

No, I've just been depressed and on antidepressants since she came out.


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## calvinandhobbes (Jul 11, 2014)

She's not cheating. And she doesn't want to. She's just closed down her sexuality because it's caused her so much pain and struggle. Asexual is now the best label. I honestly tried to encourage her to look elsewhere, even just for friendship. She has one close Evangelical Christian friend who is a non-practicing lesbian, and one other acquaintance who's a lesbian in a relationship with another woman. So no hordes of bi- or lesbian friends.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You are so co-dependent that you are contemplating helping her find love with a woman so that she can be happy. Is she sitting around, contemplating how she can help you date another woman?


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Excellent question.

Why does love in your view need to be so self-sacrificial for you? Love certainly can be, but I don't believe this situation requires it.

You are adults. You have been honest. So why are you acting so helpless?


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