# Incels: Burgeoning Domestic Terrorists?



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Officials in Texas are warning of an upcoming “Incel Rebellion” in a new report titiled “Texas Domestic Terrorism Threat Assessment.”

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2020/01/texas-officials-involuntary-celibates-constitute-emerging-domestic-terrorism-threat/

What do you think?


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

I think that if incels can't even work up the courage to talk to a woman, I have my doubts they'll work up the courage to start a "rebellion".


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

This is a trend all around the world. Japan's "grass eating men" have been a problem for a long time. I'm not sure what the problem is. Maybe it's too many choices or too much porn. Whatever the cause, there is a lot less sex going on. I'm more concerned about the birth rate than incel terrorism.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

GTdad said:


> I think that if incels can't even work up the courage to talk to a woman, I have my doubts they'll work up the courage to start a "rebellion".


Sadly the opposite is true. There have been quite a few terrorist attacks by incels in the last several years. The perpetrators tend to publicize their actions on social media which just spurs more of these men to let out their frustrations that way.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Wow!!

See? And there are still folks that don't believe "lack-of-woman" has the possibility to make a guy bonkers!

Just kidding!

The world is going off the deep end in some respects. Just wow.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

The cynical side of me wants to laugh and snicker at the mere thought of this being true.

Unfortunately, there's some truth to this.

I work in emergency management. Around 90 days ago, I had to sit through a briefing as there were credible threats in Tennessee from incels. 

There are regular releases on this from the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation as well as the Tennessee Fsion Center.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

there was a terrorist attack a couple of years by an incel, either in Toronto or Montreal or NYC. Can't remember for sure.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Wow!!
> 
> See? And there are still folks that don't believe "lack-of-woman" has the possibility to make a guy bonkers!
> 
> ...


That's why prisons have conjugal rooms. Prisoners are better behaved.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

How about we deal with Antifa first, not some made up ''domestic terrorists''?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Shortly after the May 2014 Isla Vista shooting, in which a gunman opened fire outside a University of California, Santa Barbara, sorority house, a chilling video circulated on social media. The attacker, 22-year-old former student Elliot Rodger, bluntly declared his motivation: “If I can’t have you girls,” he said, “I will destroy you.”

The incel ideology is real—and lethal. In the deadliest incel-linked attack to date, in April 2018, 10 pedestrians were killed in a vehicle-ramming attack on Toronto’s busy Yonge Street. Other deadly attacks that have cited incel ideology or inspiration have occurred at Umpqua Community College in Roseburg, Oregon, in October 2015; Aztec High School in Aztec, New Mexico, in December 2017; Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, in February 2018; and the Tallahassee Hot Yoga studio in Tallahassee, Florida, in November 2019. The death toll in the United States and Canada now stands at nearly 50 people. 

Incels: America’s Newest Domestic Terrorism Threat


More mass murders are listed here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel


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## .339971 (Sep 12, 2019)

I wouldn't doubt it for a single second. I saw the title of this thread and went, 'Oh boy-' But on a serious note, it's the quite ones you've got to watch out for and this can't be taken lightly.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> Officials in Texas are warning of an upcoming “Incel Rebellion” in a new report titiled “Texas Domestic Terrorism Threat Assessment.”
> 
> https://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2020/01/texas-officials-involuntary-celibates-constitute-emerging-domestic-terrorism-threat/
> 
> What do you think?


The idiot writing the article tried to link right wing people and other men's groups in support of incels as well as Jordan Peterson who talks with them and tries to reason with them but hardly supports their position.

Aside from the pathetic bias of the writer, I absolutely agree that this group is a growing concern and I see incel groups organizing kidnapping, rapes and other atrocities unless they are dealt with.

I believe they are already responsible for many missing women and girls personally.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

OnTheFly said:


> How about we deal with Antifa first, not some made up ''domestic terrorists''?


How about both? 

Multi-tasking is authorized. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

The problem is that people who don't learn productive ways of navigating through life then have a meltdown and go scorched earth. It would be interesting to read the psychological profile of incels.


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## AandM (Jan 30, 2019)

Married but Happy said:


> Officials in Texas are warning of an upcoming “Incel Rebellion” in a new report titiled “Texas Domestic Terrorism Threat Assessment.”
> 
> https://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2020/01/texas-officials-involuntary-celibates-constitute-emerging-domestic-terrorism-threat/
> 
> What do you think?


So... they are at the stage of submission?0


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

I think it's silly. Will there be some *******s? Sure. Are there *******s in Antifa? Sure. 

Never trust a Partisan people because to be partisan means you must abandon reason and only fight for your team. No one has a monopoly on truth.

It's not sports.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Extremists of all sorts are a potential danger, but I think we should be very slow to label groups as "terrorists' unless that represents a substantial fraction of the group and its philosophy.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

uhtred said:


> Extremists of all sorts are a potential danger, but I think we should be very slow to label groups as "terrorists' unless that represents a substantial fraction of the group and its philosophy.


This was one of my first thoughts. I think they are definitely worth watching but I'm hesitant to label them in the same category as isis.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

NextTimeAround said:


> The problem is that people who don't learn productive ways of navigating through life then have a meltdown and go scorched earth. It would be interesting to read the psychological profile of incels.


 Yep, if you are ****ed up you are ****ed up and you will do ****ed up stuff. Seems immaturity plays a big role in all that crap as well.


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## kettle (Oct 28, 2016)

I think its fake news. MSM is desperate to find a boogeyman with the 2020 elections coming up.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

I'm not terribly surprised by this news/pronouncement. I am curious to see if anything comes of it.

However, I don't think the incel threat is a terribly new thing... after all, the VA Tech shooter (2007) could be considered an incel, though not part of any movement. If he had been ten years younger, he would have absolutely been labeled an incel.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Every guy is an incel until they get some. Some just get it earlier than others. Would more availability to hookers solve this problem?


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Every guy is an incel until they get some. Some just get it earlier than others. Would more availability to hookers solve this problem?


Doubtful. Many have access to prostitutes but are still unhappy because by and large it's not necessarily sex that these men crave. It's desire. They want to be desired by a woman.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

I live in a city that was terrorized by an incel. I just cannot fathom the quantum leap to violence due to lack of desirability. I DJ'd singles dances when I was younger. A goodly percentage of the room was guys who just could not connect with a woman. Yes they'd get aggressive. Yes there were a few that got frustrated and caused a scene or two, but WOW, taking your sexual frustration out in violence? As I have said, sometimes ya just gotta shake your head.


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## aquarius1 (May 10, 2019)

We saw this in its infancy at Ecole Polytechnique in Montreal in 1989. I will not speak his name. He was the earliest example of an incel.

We've had two more incidences in Toronto just this past 18 months.

If you search the internet, the terms that come up often are Incel, Red Pill Society and Jordan Peterson.

I have a close friend who worked with him personally for a time. He left because he considered his ideologies toxic.

The male/female dynamic is uneven. I have my own views on it but don't want to start a flame war.

I have children, a young man and a young woman. I have witnessed firsthand the difference in how they are treated.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

aquarius1 said:


> We saw this in its infancy at Ecole Polytechnique in Montreal in 1989. I will not speak his name. He was the earliest example of an incel.
> 
> We've had two more incidences in Toronto just this past 18 months.
> 
> ...


What are you insinuating? I think we can all agree killing because you can't get any or because you feel you are undesirable is wrong. Not many would argue with that apart from maybe sociopaths. I think we are really talking about mentally ill people not really incels (which sound like a boogeyman group that the media made up). Sure maybe they latch onto the 'incel' ideology, if you call it that, just like other mentally ill people latch onto political organizations or religious cults that are by themselves harmless.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

As with a lot of movements, there is a rational basis, but then people take it to crazy and dangerous extremes.

There is a legitimate problem that lack of sex leads to unhappiness, and that there is both social pressure and often legal restrictions that make it difficult for some people (mostly men, but also some women) to find partners. 

I think the problem comes in when people translate the existence of this problem into somehow *blaming* women. 

The problem isn't solved by men becoming more desirable - because there will always be the 10% least desirable men. (just like we can't all be wealthy) 


The problem is muli-faceted, including both men who are for various reasons completely undesirable, to those that are desirable but have become trapped in sexless marriages that they don't think they can escape. 

I don't know if there are reasonable solutions. Maybe its possible to create a well regulated and safe prostitution system? Maybe more sophisticated dating services could help match people? Sex bots will probably fix this in the end, if they are not insanely expensive. 

Maybe there is room for better crafted laws regarding the role of sex in marriage? 

Clearly violence is never an OK solution.


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## aquarius1 (May 10, 2019)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> What are you insinuating? I think we can all agree killing because you can't get any or because you feel you are undesirable is wrong. Not many would argue with that apart from maybe sociopaths. I think we are really talking about mentally ill people not really incels (which sound like a boogeyman group that the media made up). Sure maybe they latch onto the 'incel' ideology, if you call it that, just like other mentally ill people latch onto political organizations or religious cults that are by themselves harmless.


Insinuating nothing. Entitled to my opinion based on personal observation. Just as you are.
As I said, nothing to see here folks...move along.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

A lot of these guys could get dates and sex. For whatever reason, they don't want to exert the effort it takes to obtain a mate. I'm also curious about how many women they blew off because they did not consider them viable as mates?

A lot of these guys are not bad in the looks department and I know they must have had opportunities that they overlooked or turned down.

I think manhood 101 classes could benefit them overall but there are some who are just mental.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Seriously.... I know guys who look like their face was microwaved hamburger and they married cute ladies and had hamburger faced babies. They are still going strong and have the usual ups and downs of married life but if a hamburger face can get women, and keep them, so can anyone else.

These incels are voluntarily celibate in my view because they won't take the necessary course to obtain a mate.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

There is a lot more to attractiveness than physical appearance. There will always be a bottom 10% least attractive men. 



ConanHub said:


> Seriously.... I know guys who look like their face was microwaved hamburger and they married cute ladies and had hamburger faced babies. They are still going strong and have the usual ups and downs of married life but if a hamburger face can get women, and keep them, so can anyone else.
> 
> These incels are voluntarily celibate in my view because they won't take the necessary course to obtain a mate.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

uhtred said:


> There is a lot more to attractiveness than physical appearance. There will always be a bottom 10% least attractive men.


From what I understand, most incels choose to be an incel. Sure, they feel passed over, but I’ve heard of them being asked out by girls, and declining, because they’re not supermodel virgins that will just let them be their sexual plaything.

I don’t think this has anything to do with being unattractive. I think it has everything to do with a combination of self-loathing and hatred of women.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

uhtred said:


> There is a lot more to attractiveness than physical appearance. There will always be a bottom 10% least attractive men.


Obviously but you must admit if a burger head can get women, anyone can if they want to put in the effort.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

No because burger head may be interesting or clever, or fantastically wealthy or famous or any of the the other characteristics that attract some subset of women.

He may be more attractive than a guy who isn't too bright, doesn't have any real skills, is bad at interacting with and reading people and had never been able to get his life together. 





ConanHub said:


> Obviously but you must admit if a burger head can get women, anyone can if they want to put in the effort.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

ConanHub said:


> Obviously but you must admit if a burger head can get women, anyone can if they want to put in the effort.


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

What do all shooters have in common?
At least 90% anyway?
And I figure especially the incels do.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

uhtred said:


> No because burger head may be interesting or clever, or fantastically wealthy or famous or any of the the other characteristics that attract some subset of women.
> 
> He may be more attractive than a guy who isn't too bright, doesn't have any real skills, is bad at interacting with and reading people and had never been able to get his life together.


All solvable issue with effort.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Marduk said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBcG5tOURuM


:smthumbup::lol::lol::lol::lol::rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> The idiot writing the article tried to link right wing people and other men's groups in support of incels as well as Jordan Peterson who talks with them and tries to reason with them but hardly supports their position.
> 
> Aside from the pathetic bias of the writer, I absolutely agree that this group is a growing concern and I see incel groups organizing kidnapping, rapes and other atrocities unless they are dealt with.
> 
> I believe they are already responsible for many missing women and girls personally.


Of course the solution is to arm women so they don't make such easy targets.
But equally of course gun grabbers don't want to acknowledge that.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> Seriously.... I know guys who look like their face was microwaved hamburger and they married cute ladies and had hamburger faced babies. They are still going strong and have the usual ups and downs of married life but if a hamburger face can get women, and keep them, so can anyone else.
> 
> These incels are voluntarily celibate in my view because they won't take the necessary course to obtain a mate.


I'm not sure you can really appreciate how difficult it is for some men to attract women. Attitude is the most important variable and they think they are victims of society or the like. That's what some of the game writers like "heartiste" have tried to help with, but until and unless they get rid of the victim mentality, they have very little chance of success.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

tech-novelist said:


> I'm not sure you can really appreciate how difficult it is for some men to attract women. Attitude is the most important variable and they think they are victims of society or the like. That's what some of the game writers like "heartiste" have tried to help with, but until and unless they get rid of the victim mentality, they have very little chance of success.


I agree that attitude is most important and definitely something that can be adjusted.

Refusing to put in the effort necessary isn't an excuse.

I wonder if some of these guys just don't attract the hot ladies and ignore all the others they might have a shot at?


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> tech-novelist said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not sure you can really appreciate how difficult it is for some men to attract women. Attitude is the most important variable and they think they are victims of society or the like. That's what some of the game writers like "heartiste" have tried to help with, but until and unless they get rid of the victim mentality, they have very little chance of success.
> ...


What's so hard about calling an escort and getting laid? Seems pretty simple to me. Oh no, they are just doing it for money. Who cares? Do you think Gates or Bezos cares?


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

red oak said:


> What do all shooters have in common?
> At least 90% anyway?
> And I figure especially the incels do.


Psychoactive/Psychotropic drug prescriptions.


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

Almost all terrorists are in some way a disenfranchised male. The particular label or cultural slot that they don't fit into varies depending on the person or culture but the majority of terrorists have a lot in common.

I'm nearly certain that the incarceration, suicide, and homelessness statistics being heavily leaning towards the male gender is related. Males are in some measure disposable or don't matter.

I'm also certain no one here is going to have the answers to why or how to fix the problem.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> I agree that attitude is most important and definitely something that can be adjusted.
> 
> Refusing to put in the effort necessary isn't an excuse.
> 
> I wonder if some of these guys just don't attract the hot ladies and ignore all the others they might have a shot at?


I think this is the root of a lot of it. I've seen some of these incels online and they're not all horrible looking guys, but they think they're entitled to the top 5% of women looks wise without regard for the fact that these women have a lot of options. They aren't interested in average looking nice women and don't view women as their own people with their own wants and needs. Who wants such a guy? If you have something to offer, like a lot of money, someone will put up with it, but otherwise nobody wants that.

Meeting people is hard for a lot of people, but if you're looking for a small group with a lot of options it's extremely difficult. Reasonable people understand this, but there are groups who think they're entitled and become angry when they don't get it. It's a form of covert contract.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Hiner112 said:


> Almost all terrorists are in some way a disenfranchised male. The particular label or cultural slot that they don't fit into varies depending on the person or culture but the majority of terrorists have a lot in common.
> 
> I'm nearly certain that the incarceration, suicide, and homelessness statistics being heavily leaning towards the male gender is related. Males are in some measure disposable or don't matter.
> 
> I'm also certain no one here is going to have the answers to why or how to fix the problem.


One good place to start is for people to stop raising entitled brats. I have two sons, 19 and 16, whose father wasn't much interested in parenting. They see him whenever they want and we get along fine, but I was by far the dominant influence in their lives. 

I've used my power with them to drill into them that they aren't entitled to anything and if they want a good partner they should he a good partner. I've also drilled into them that there are a lot of women out there and if one doesn't want them they'll be much happier looking for one who does.

Guess what? They're both working on bettering themselves so they can have a lot to offer.

Fathers who are heavily involved can influence this even more...I just had to work with what I had.

This of course won't solve everything, but there are a lot of entitled brats thanks to poor parenting.


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## RubyRing (Jun 13, 2016)

"I think this is the root of a lot of it. I've seen some of these incels online and they're not all horrible looking guys, but they think they're entitled to the top 5% of women looks wise without regard for the fact that these women have a lot of options."


Where I used to work, we had a 50+ virgin in our office, still living with his parents, quite overweight. He would complain that women only went after "bad boys" and rejected him because he was a nice guy. He would frequently make derogatory remarks about overweight women, even though he himself was overweight. In his younger days, before he gained so much wieght, he probably could have had a shot with an average looking nice girl, but he seemed to think that only women who looked like super models were worthy of love.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

GTdad said:


> I think that if incels can't even work up the courage to talk to a woman, I have my doubts they'll work up the courage to start a "rebellion".


Truth be told cowards perform despicable acts quite often, I'd argue that cowards have done more harm to mankind than we want to acknowledge. I perused incel forums quite a bit. They idolize those among them that commit violent acts. Even set up online memorials for them. I'd say occasional violence from them is a reality we will have to deal with for the forseeable future. They are also starting to poison the minds of males as young as the junior high school level. Which is ridiculous...because if you look at my 7th and 8th grade pics you are looking at a gigantic Steve Urkel, literallly. At that age most of us are awkward for the most part, and I worry that some of the seeds being planted may be permanent if parents don't keep a close watch.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

They are mentally ill and if they are treated for their mental ill health early enough, guess what? No terrorism?


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

https://dadstartingover.com/mgtow-incels-red-pill-oh-my/

I think it's a huge issue and one that will continue to grow.


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> I agree that attitude is most important and definitely something that can be adjusted.
> 
> Refusing to put in the effort necessary isn't an excuse.
> 
> I wonder if some of these guys just don't attract the hot ladies and ignore all the others they might have a shot at?


Although not all young women are influenced I wonder if a portion of the issue results in twisted expectations from fantasy novels. 

A psychologist wrote about the issues novel series such as twilight were causing relationships by increasing expectations of young women in qualities of a man. Relating it to being as bad as a mans skewed perspective from porn. 

Skin so beautiful it sparkles in sunlight. He has to be careful or he will kill her while having sex.... Constant excitement, always new adventures.

We know 1 who read the series, and others like it. 
She was a quite one but get her started talking about what she was reading, and it was about the qualities of the hero, the adventure and danger.
She got married. It didn’t last 3 months because she wasn’t happy. 

Her husband was by all means becoming a mans, man. In the military, got them a house close to base, had completed ranger training, yet in her own words she said there should be more, she felt like that couldn’t be all there is, and didn’t really feel any difference after marriage.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

tech-novelist said:


> I'm not sure you can really appreciate how difficult it is for some men to attract women. Attitude is the most important variable and they think they are victims of society or the like. That's what some of the game writers like "heartiste" have tried to help with, but until and unless they get rid of the victim mentality, they have very little chance of success.


I've tried to help my fair share of guys with this problem.

Universally it has come down to "I don't want to do the work or accept reality. I want reality to change so I don't have to do the work and still get what I want. Feel bad for me."


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Marduk said:


> tech-novelist said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not sure you can really appreciate how difficult it is for some men to attract women. Attitude is the most important variable and they think they are victims of society or the like. That's what some of the game writers like "heartiste" have tried to help with, but until and unless they get rid of the victim mentality, they have very little chance of success.
> ...


Even so. Only like .001% of these guys goes postal. This issue is overblown. We could probably extrapolate it over kids that listen to X type of music go and shoot up schools. Or you could look at more logical things like a personal history or family history of mental illness.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Even so. Only like .001% of these guys goes postal. This issue is overblown. We could probably extrapolate it over kids that listen to X type of music go and shoot up schools. Or you could look at more logical things like a personal history or family history of mental illness.


Or it could be institutionalized and socially acceptable misogyny accelerated by political leaders, among others?

I wouldn't say it's 'overblown' as a man when the whole deal is squarely targeted at women.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Marduk said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> > Even so. Only like .001% of these guys goes postal. This issue is overblown. We could probably extrapolate it over kids that listen to X type of music go and shoot up schools. Or you could look at more logical things like a personal history or family history of mental illness.
> ...


Why does it matter where its targeted whether men, women, blacks, whites, dogs, cats, clowns...you can't reason with mental illness. But it can be addressed or **** like that happens.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Why does it matter where its targeted whether men, women, blacks, whites, dogs, cats, clowns...you can't reason with mental illness. But it can be addressed or **** like that happens.


I agree with that. 

I disagree with it being assessed as 'overblown' from a male standpoint, because we're not the ones living with the risk.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Males and females very often have unrealistic expectations of each other. Add romance novels and porn into the mix and you can end up with people who find real life extremely boring. Perfection doesn’t exist but unfortunately they don’t accept that.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Marduk said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> > Why does it matter where its targeted whether men, women, blacks, whites, dogs, cats, clowns...you can't reason with mental illness. But it can be addressed or **** like that happens.
> ...


How big is the risk really? How many incels with links to the movement went on killing sprees? I think its overblown because it almost never happens and usually it's by people that are far more messed up than simply 'I hate wimminz'


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

red oak said:


> Although not all young women are influenced I wonder if a portion of the issue results in twisted expectations from fantasy novels.
> 
> A psychologist wrote about the issues novel series such as twilight were causing relationships by increasing expectations of young women in qualities of a man. Relating it to being as bad as a mans skewed perspective from porn.
> 
> ...


Sounds like my friend's daughter but I'm not certain why she left him. She is still alone and looking so maybe some of this is going on as well as incel nonsense.

It definitely isn't a gender specific issue but I have personally seen it occuring more in men.

Be interesting to view a study on it.


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> How big is the risk really? How many incels with links to the movement went on killing sprees? I think its overblown because it almost never happens and usually it's by people that are far more messed up than simply 'I hate wimminz'


So, should we not investigate terrorism at all? I mean, how many actually do something.

If we had started in 2007 when the first report of rightwing extremism/terrorism was dismissed and the group in DHS disbanded, maybe we could have more tools and information to combat it.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> How big is the risk really? How many incels with links to the movement went on killing sprees? I think its overblown because it almost never happens and usually it's by people that are far more messed up than simply 'I hate wimminz'


How about we ask the women on the forum to assess the risk rather than trying to speak for them?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Marduk said:


> How about we ask the women on the forum to assess the risk rather than trying to speak for them?


Why would the women be any more inclined to assess risk properly on this subject? I would rather we ask the experts in the field. 

Humans are **** all bad at assessing risk under pretty much all circumstances. Have you seen the obesity rate lately? Do you drive a car daily?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Cletus said:


> Why would the women be any more inclined to assess risk properly on this subject? I would rather we ask the experts in the field.
> 
> Humans are **** all bad at assessing risk under pretty much all circumstances. Have you seen the obesity rate lately? Do you drive a car daily?


Because it's their risk to bear, not mine or yours. This is not just a statistical model, it's a real world threat assessment from those that have to live with it.

And they're more than capable of assessing this risk. We don't need to explain it to them.


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> Sounds like my friend's daughter but I'm not certain why she left him. She is still alone and looking so maybe some of this is going on as well as incel nonsense.
> 
> It definitely isn't a gender specific issue but I have personally seen it occuring more in men.
> 
> Be interesting to view a study on it.


Not a study, but does address some of the topic, if one can get past the political slant.

Excerpts which talk about his perfection.
It's a download.
Wife, Mother, Vampire: The Female Role in the Twilight Series



https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...re/201510/why-twilight-is-worse-just-bad-book


----------



## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Marduk said:


> I've tried to help my fair share of guys with this problem.
> 
> Universally it has come down to "I don't want to do the work or accept reality. I want reality to change so I don't have to do the work and still get what I want. Feel bad for me."


^^^^This. I have tried to help quite a few guys like this. I wouldn't consider them incels. They were "normies" as incels would say. Basically guys that can get laid but settle for "lower quality women". Again, these are incel thoughts not my own. To me the one thing they have in common is they have zero concept that mutual attraction is not a guarantee. They also have the most unrealistic expectations you could imagine. They really only want a woman that is an 8 or above, and they have it in their heads that if they have an ok job, and would be nice to her, that a woman should fall head over heels for them, and worship the ground they walk on. The real world just doesn't work that way. Their perspective is really messed up. I wish they would turn that thinking around. I wouldn't want to feel obligated to be with a woman I wasn't attracted to just because she says she would treat me well. Who we are with is ultimately our choice, we can certainly do things to increase our chances, but none of us can have anyone we want, they have to want us to. Sounds like common sense, but clearly its lost on that crowd. 

I do understand wanting a mate that you're attracted to, but when you set yourself up to only want a cover model, you're setting yourself up for disappointment, and you are also missing out on a lot of great potential experiences/relationships. I don't think most of us end up with the hottest person we've ever been with anyway. Its our love for them that makes us feel that deeper connection.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Marduk said:


> Cletus said:
> 
> 
> > Why would the women be any more inclined to assess risk properly on this subject? I would rather we ask the experts in the field.
> ...


So what's your solution to dealing with this .001% risk factor? Are we gonna turn the world upside down looking for these clowns or are we just going to go about our lives knowing that people can be evil. Otherwise, this is pointless.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Marduk said:


> And they're more than capable of assessing this risk. We don't need to explain it to them.


I don't believe in general that they are, any more than most of us are capable of assessing risk.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

red oak said:


> Not a study, but does address some of the topic, if one can get past the political slant.
> 
> Excerpts which talk about his perfection.
> It's a download.
> ...


I'm a vampire slayer anyhow, especially sparkly ones.:wink2:


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> So what's your solution to dealing with this .001% risk factor? Are we gonna turn the world upside down looking for these clowns or are we just going to go about our lives knowing that people can be evil. Otherwise, this is pointless.


As a Canadian, I have determined through statistical models that international terrorism and war is an even lower risk factor for Americans. 

Therefore, I have determined you should stand down your military immediately, and cease all foreign interventions. 

Isn’t this fun?


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Cletus said:


> I don't believe in general that they are, any more than most of us are capable of assessing risk.


“Mansplaining”


----------



## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

All I can say is wow. I made a living off people trying to get laid back in the 70's. I put myself through school by driving my father's taxicab at nights and spinning disks at parties and singles dances on the weekends. The singles dances paid best, and you could gear music to changing moods throughout the evening. I tended to play slower stuff as midnight approached, and by 12:45 was doing slow grind sides. Figured that whoever was there at 12:45 was scaping the bottom, and I wanted to give them their last chance at love for the night. I don't get the violence. And I don't understand perfectly normal young men who can't walk up to any woman and ask for a date. I have known many men over the years who weren't exactly greek gods, who could sweet talk a lot of pretty young things into the sack. I have to agree with Marduk, a lot of these men are plain lazy, and angry that women are not offered up on a silver platter.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

This just popped in my head.

Years ago, I was trying to help a guy in his late 30s or early 40s get into a relationship. I'm stupid, I know.

But he finally started talking to this girl. She was great! Highly educated, had a great job, super down to earth, and quite a knock out. I mean, not a fitness model or anything, but she was pretty and reasonably fit.

"But she has a kid, I just don't know if I can deal with that."

"Uh, my dude, the kid is a teenager and about to go off to college. You're golden."

"Ya, but I mean, she's a mom. I don't know if I can see her that way or get involved with all that."

Ugh.

He was out of shape, smoked, and had a terrible job but I think he wanted a 20 year old instagram star that had never even looked at another man.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Marduk said:


> This just popped in my head.
> 
> Years ago, I was trying to help a guy in his late 30s or early 40s get into a relationship. I'm stupid, I know.
> 
> ...


You know, that's probably for the best, though--a woman like that, who has her act together, probably wouldn't want and overweight smoker with a crappy job. She was already out of his league.

And he pre-rejected her. Which I now realize was probably your point.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Marduk said:


> “Mansplaining”


This might be the greatest distance by which you've missed the point of a post in my entire time here.


----------



## hilariouslaughter (Jan 15, 2020)

The term incel is a short term for "involuntarily celibate." It refers to men who have little or no luck with women, cannot get a date or get sex. Politicizing them or attributing them to a particular party is ludicrous and laughable. Most of the incels I have encountered are actually democratic socialist SJW's with neck beards.

I am trying not to laugh that someone is actually trying to make it an alt-right thing. How sad.


----------



## hilariouslaughter (Jan 15, 2020)

EleGirl said:


> Shortly after the May 2014 Isla Vista shooting, in which a gunman opened fire outside a University of California, Santa Barbara, sorority house, a chilling video circulated on social media. The attacker, 22-year-old former student Elliot Rodger, bluntly declared his motivation: “If I can’t have you girls,” he said, “I will destroy you.”
> 
> The incel ideology is real—and lethal. In the deadliest incel-linked attack to date, in April 2018, 10 pedestrians were killed in a vehicle-ramming attack on Toronto’s busy Yonge Street. Other deadly attacks that have cited incel ideology or inspiration have occurred at Umpqua Community College in Roseburg, Oregon, in October 2015; Aztec High School in Aztec, New Mexico, in December 2017; Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, in February 2018; and the Tallahassee Hot Yoga studio in Tallahassee, Florida, in November 2019. The death toll in the United States and Canada now stands at nearly 50 people.
> 
> ]



True, but this isn't because they are on the right. It's because they feel entitled to women and are mad.


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Cletus said:


> This might be the greatest distance by which you've missed the point of a post in my entire time here.


It was also a clumsy joke. So a mutual miss, I guess.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Marduk said:


> It was also a clumsy joke. So a mutual miss, I guess.


Shoulda got a woman to explain it to me.


----------



## hilariouslaughter (Jan 15, 2020)

Tasorundo said:


> So, should we not investigate terrorism at all? I mean, how many actually do something.
> 
> If we had started in 2007 when the first report of rightwing extremism/terrorism was dismissed and the group in DHS disbanded, maybe we could have more tools and information to combat it.


Incel is not a party thing. It's an angry man thing. This is ridiculous.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

hilariouslaughter said:


> Tasorundo said:
> 
> 
> > So, should we not investigate terrorism at all? I mean, how many actually do something.
> ...



Didn't ya know it's only Republicans that can't get laid. Luckily you can switch your party affiliation and you will be swimming in all the wimminz...


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

I am sorry if it offends you guys that most incels are libertarian/republican leaning.

The only thing I mentioned about party was when DHS was forced to shut down domestic white terror programs, because they made right wing extremists look bad. So, yeah, it looks bad for republicans, because they are the ones that did it.


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Cletus said:


> Shoulda got a woman to explain it to me.


You got me. Made me laugh out loud that time.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Tasorundo said:


> I am sorry if it offends you guys that most incels are libertarian/republican leaning.
> 
> The only thing I mentioned about party was when DHS was forced to shut down domestic white terror programs, because they made right wing extremists look bad. So, yeah, it looks bad for republicans, because they are the ones that did it.


What part of the GOP or Libertarian platform endorses anything about incels? I'd figure GOP would say wait till Marriage while Libertarians would say do what you want as long as you don't hurt anyone else. I don't follow your logic.


----------



## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> What part of the GOP or Libertarian platform endorses anything about incels? I'd figure GOP would say wait till Marriage while Libertarians would say do what you want as long as you don't hurt anyone else. I don't follow your logic.


I don't think anything endorses incels, but they tend to be libertarian and conservative. Why that is, I don't know exactly and I could throw around random reasons, but they are typically far right/alt-right.


----------



## hilariouslaughter (Jan 15, 2020)

Tasorundo said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> > What part of the GOP or Libertarian platform endorses anything about incels? I'd figure GOP would say wait till Marriage while Libertarians would say do what you want as long as you don't hurt anyone else. I don't follow your logic.
> ...


 I'd like to see some peer reviewed studies from scholarly entities to backup this assertion that incels tend to be conservative. I believe that you are in error.


----------



## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

hilariouslaughter said:


> Tasorundo said:
> 
> 
> > UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> ...


Is there any peer reviewed data on incels at all?


----------



## hilariouslaughter (Jan 15, 2020)

Probably not. We probably all form our opinions of who makes up the group of incels based on our own anecdotal observations. These may or may not be confirmed by the types of media we choose to read. Those who are more liberal are going to read resources that imply incels or pretty much any other negative group tend to be conservative. Fox News is probably going to tell you that incels are all lefties. The point is, it is presumptive and anti intellectual to make a definitive statement about the political leanings of incels as a group.


----------



## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

hilariouslaughter said:


> Probably not. We probably all form our opinions of who makes up the group of incels based on our own anecdotal observations. These may or may not be confirmed by the types of media we choose to read. Those who are more liberal are going to read resources that imply incels or pretty much any other negative group tend to be conservative. Fox News is probably going to tell you that incels are all lefties. The point is, it is presumptive and anti intellectual to make a definitive statement about the political leanings of incels as a group.


I base it on the information that shows a strong connection to white supremacy, men’s rights activism, anti-feminism, all groups that are alt-right.


----------



## hilariouslaughter (Jan 15, 2020)

Tasorundo said:


> hilariouslaughter said:
> 
> 
> > Probably not. We probably all form our opinions of who makes up the group of incels based on our own anecdotal observations. These may or may not be confirmed by the types of media we choose to read. Those who are more liberal are going to read resources that imply incels or pretty much any other negative group tend to be conservative. Fox News is probably going to tell you that incels are all lefties. The point is, it is presumptive and anti intellectual to make a definitive statement about the political leanings of incels as a group.
> ...


 Again, except for white supremacy, I ask you to provide evidence that men's rights groups are all conservative. I am not a fan of most of those groups, especially those of the red pill variety. However, based on the whole of your posting history that I have read thus far, I suspect there may be a bias at play.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

hilariouslaughter said:


> Tasorundo said:
> 
> 
> > hilariouslaughter said:
> ...


I don't see why everything needs a political label. Why is a bunch of rejected nerds espousing hatred for women, right or left? I'm sure lefties will tell you Republicans hate women because righties dont want lefties killing babies and such, but these are just dudes that don't like women cause they wont give them poontang. Something altogether different. It could be that they are more traditionalists and don't like the progressive ideology. But I don't think rejection of one ideology is implicit acceptance of another, one that has nothing to do with their mission for unlimited poon.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I would suspect incels are probably more likely to be Republican voters, but it's not because the Republican platform supports that kind of thing. I am a center right leaning libertarian, and from my perspective the Republican party is a combination of a number of different groups that have decided that dislike Democrats more but aren't necessarily conservative in all areas.. Example: many religious nuts aren't economic conservatives, but the party is more friendly to their social views. In the case of incels its likely more of an enemy of my enemy type thing.

Their hatred of women, while certainly not condoned by the Republican party, is tolerated more. There is a subset of Republican voters that while they don't necessarily hate women also think women belong subservient to men (ie why can't go back to the good 'ole days). There is some overlap of the Venn diagram here. You're not going to find this as much in the Democratic party, though they have their own issues.

And to the extent these incels are angry white men, it seems to me that angry white men do generally vote Republican...albeit for a number of reasons.

This is a case of correlation not implying causation.


----------



## hilariouslaughter (Jan 15, 2020)

lifeistooshort said:


> I would suspect incels are probably more likely to be Republican voters, but it's not because the Republican platform supports that kind of thing. I am a center right leaning libertarian, and from my perspective the Republican party is a combination of a number of different groups that have decided that dislike Democrats more but aren't necessarily conservative in all areas.. Example: many religious nuts aren't economic conservatives, but the party is more friendly to their social views. In the case of incels its likely more of an enemy of my enemy type thing.
> 
> Their hatred of women, while certainly not condoned by the Republican party, is tolerated more. There is a subset of Republican voters that while they don't necessarily hate women also think women belong subservient to men (ie why can't go back to the good 'ole days). There is some overlap of the Venn diagram here. You're not going to find this as much in the Democratic party, though they have their own issues.
> 
> ...


 I can definitely understand this. The way you posted is much less insulting. You also did not proclaim your opinion as fact. This makes sense to me and I could see how it could be true.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

lifeistooshort said:


> I would suspect incels are probably more likely to be Republican voters, but it's not because the Republican platform supports that kind of thing. I am a center right leaning libertarian, and from my perspective the Republican party is a combination of a number of different groups that have decided that dislike Democrats more but aren't necessarily conservative in all areas.. Example: many religious nuts aren't economic conservatives, but the party is more friendly to their social views. In the case of incels its likely more of an enemy of my enemy type thing.
> 
> Their hatred of women, while certainly not condoned by the Republican party, is tolerated more. There is a subset of Republican voters that while they don't necessarily hate women also think women belong subservient to men (ie why can't go back to the good 'ole days). There is some overlap of the Venn diagram here. You're not going to find this as much in the Democratic party, though they have their own issues.
> 
> ...


I don't think that is true. If I had to pin them to a particular political group, then it would probably be Libertarian. For example, MGTOW, who have no interest in any government action, unlike MRA, are by in large Libertarian. The only difference between MGTOW and Incels is MGTOWs have chosen to check out of the SMP. But, like I said, since they aren't aiming for any political agenda, I think they are just as likely to be apolitical even if they hate Progressives. MGTOWs also hate Progressives but they are content with watching it all blow up eventually while banging their blow up dolls in the meantime. 

But, I'm not too familiar with Incels, although I figure they are rather similar to MGTOWs just younger, more naive and more misguided.


----------



## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

Cletus said:


> I don't believe in general that they are, any more than most of us are capable of assessing risk.


I think you are wrong. I assess “risk” every day of my life, every time I leave my home. I am sure that you do too … for example, defensive driving practices involve assessing risk … you know, assessing the risk caused by the idiot weaving on the freeway and taking evasive action.

For women, it involves risk you may not even think of. For example: the risk of walking to your car at night in the car park, going on a first date with a man, first appointment with a new male physician, etc. I personally have to do risk assessments daily because I live in an urban area. I have been verbally and physically assaulted, more than once, and I’m just counting the year 2019. My own “risk assessment” indicated to me that 1. I need to start carrying a Taser and, 2. I need to stop being so “nice”, in other words if you approach me screaming in my face I will not hesitate to throat punch you (this has happened).

And no, I will not move or stop walking my dogs or stop walking to my local shops. In addition, these sorts of things have been happening all of my life, even when I lived in suburban or rural areas. I wish someone like you, who think women are incapable of assessing risk, could somehow become a “woman for a day” and walk around in public in order to experience these things.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Red Sonja said:


> Cletus said:
> 
> 
> > I don't believe in general that they are, any more than most of us are capable of assessing risk.
> ...


Men access risk in the opposite. If you go on a date, can you be forward/take charge or is that too 'rapey'? Can I talk to a female coworker as I would a Male Coworker or will I get metoo'd? Can I open a door for her or is that demeaning?

But fair nuff, never been assaulted by a man though I do keep my eyes open at night, once I ran into some thugs outside of work at night...


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Red Sonja said:


> I think you are wrong. I assess “risk” every day of my life, every time I leave my home. I am sure that you do too … for example, defensive driving practices involve assessing risk … you know, assessing the risk caused by the idiot weaving on the freeway and taking evasive action.


I should have said "weighing" instead of "assessing". I am not referring to the ability to identify risk, I am referring to the inability to properly weigh risk. I am talking about this phenomenon, which we all fall victim to at some level:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/articles/200801/10-ways-we-get-the-odds-wrong

The single riskiest thing most of us do every day is get in a car. Yet this happens:

"The problem is, this leads to bad decisions. The magazine notes that after Sept. 11, 1.4 million people changed their travel plans to avoid flying, choosing to drive instead. Driving is far more dangerous. The decision caused roughly 1,000 additional auto fatalities, the magazine reports."

https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/16/wrong-about-risk-blame-your-brain/


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Red Sonja said:


> I think you are wrong. I assess “risk” every day of my life, every time I leave my home. I am sure that you do too … for example, defensive driving practices involve assessing risk … you know, assessing the risk caused by the idiot weaving on the freeway and taking evasive action.
> 
> For women, it involves risk you may not even think of. For example: the risk of walking to your car at night in the car park, going on a first date with a man, first appointment with a new male physician, etc. I personally have to do risk assessments daily because I live in an urban area. I have been verbally and physically assaulted, more than once, and I’m just counting the year 2019. My own “risk assessment” indicated to me that 1. I need to start carrying a Taser and, 2. I need to stop being so “nice”, in other words if you approach me screaming in my face I will not hesitate to throat punch you (this has happened).
> 
> And no, I will not move or stop walking my dogs or stop walking to my local shops. In addition, these sorts of things have been happening all of my life, even when I lived in suburban or rural areas. I wish someone like you, who think women are incapable of assessing risk, could somehow become a “woman for a day” and walk around in public in order to experience these things.


Bingo. Great response. 

Fascinating what happens when you involve the human beings most impacted by what’s happening in the conversation, rather than making decisions for them like they’re not even there.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> I would suspect incels are probably more likely to be Republican voters, but it's not because the Republican platform supports that kind of thing. I am a center right leaning libertarian, and from my perspective the Republican party is a combination of a number of different groups that have decided that dislike Democrats more but aren't necessarily conservative in all areas.. Example: many religious nuts aren't economic conservatives, but the party is more friendly to their social views. In the case of incels its likely more of an enemy of my enemy type thing.
> 
> Their hatred of women, while certainly not condoned by the Republican party, is tolerated more. There is a subset of Republican voters that while they don't necessarily hate women also think women belong subservient to men (ie why can't go back to the good 'ole days). There is some overlap of the Venn diagram here. You're not going to find this as much in the Democratic party, though they have their own issues.
> 
> ...


As an independent conservative that votes mostly republican because the party generally is slightly less heinous than the other, I find this somewhat disturbing. I've seen plenty of disgusting misogynist politicians in the democratic party regardless of what they might claim. Not that any politician, chosen at random, is going to stack up very high in the morals department at a glance.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> As an independent conservative that votes mostly republican because the party generally is slightly less heinous than the other, I find this somewhat disturbing. I've seen plenty of disgusting misogynist politicians in the democratic party regardless of what they might claim. Not that any politician, chosen at random, is going to stack up very high in the morals department at a glance.


Oh, don't get me wrong. There is certainly misogyny in the Democratic party.....it just manifests differently. Misogyny is a cultural issue, not a political one.

Democrats do plenty of looking the other way while women are harassed and mistreated. And plenty of Republican voters are not misogynists.

I'm addressing the particularly angry guys....those guys vote Republican.


----------



## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

hilariouslaughter said:


> I can definitely understand this. The way you posted is much less insulting. You also did not proclaim your opinion as fact. This makes sense to me and I could see how it could be true.


So sorry that my opinions came out as facts. I guess will just put IMO in front of everything I say. This whole thread is full of opinions stated as facts.

I am not sure how me saying that groups made of mostly angry white males tend to be conservative/libertarian is offensive, but when life says it, it is no longer offensive. Whatever.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Tasorundo said:


> So sorry that my opinions came out as facts. I guess will just put IMO in front of everything I say. This whole thread is full of opinions stated as facts.
> 
> I am not sure how me saying that groups made of mostly angry white males tend to be conservative/libertarian is offensive, but when life says it, it is no longer offensive. Whatever.


I have a magic touch >


----------



## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I don't think that is true. If I had to pin them to a particular political group, then it would probably be Libertarian. For example, MGTOW, who have no interest in any government action, unlike MRA, are by in large Libertarian. The only difference between MGTOW and Incels is MGTOWs have chosen to check out of the SMP. But, like I said, since they aren't aiming for any political agenda, I think they are just as likely to be apolitical even if they hate Progressives. MGTOWs also hate Progressives but they are content with watching it all blow up eventually while banging their blow up dolls in the meantime.
> 
> But, I'm not too familiar with Incels, although I figure they are rather similar to MGTOWs just younger, more naive and more misguided.


i have been a paid member of a MGTOW forum for several years now. i can tell you that they absolutely hate incels. they dont tolerate them at all.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

As'laDain said:


> i have been a paid member of a MGTOW forum for several years now. i can tell you that they absolutely hate incels. they dont tolerate them at all.


Doesn't surprise me at all. MGTOW have used their power to make their own decisions....nothing wrong with that.

Incels are pathetic losers who abdicate their power and blame everything on evil wimmenz.....very weak.

I can see how men who use their power to control their own lives dislike weak victim men.


----------



## hilariouslaughter (Jan 15, 2020)

lifeistooshort said:


> As'laDain said:
> 
> 
> > i have been a paid member of a MGTOW forum for several years now. i can tell you that they absolutely hate incels. they dont tolerate them at all.
> ...


Awesome definition of incels!


----------



## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Married but Happy said:


> Officials in Texas are warning of an upcoming “Incel Rebellion” in a new report titiled “Texas Domestic Terrorism Threat Assessment.”
> 
> https://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2020/01/texas-officials-involuntary-celibates-constitute-emerging-domestic-terrorism-threat/
> 
> What do you think?


While the people who go on about being an Incel are probably more harmess, large numbers of sexually fustrated men are dangerous for society and it will have consequences. The swollen gonal theory of imperial expansion is that going abroad and building an Empire was one way the excess was dealt with. 

https://foreignpolicy.com/2009/10/20/the-geopolitics-of-sexual-frustration/


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

lifeistooshort said:


> As'laDain said:
> 
> 
> > i have been a paid member of a MGTOW forum for several years now. i can tell you that they absolutely hate incels. they dont tolerate them at all.
> ...


Only I think MGTOWs do blame women and society for empowering them. But agree with everything else you said.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Only I think MGTOWs do blame women and society for empowering them. But agree with everything else you said.


Yeah, you're probably right about that.


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Only I think MGTOWs do blame women and society for empowering them. But agree with everything else you said.


Some MGTOW guys, along with their red pill cousins, somehow think that women are this ultra-secret powerful divine sisterhood that keeps all men under control with social norms that benefit only women, laws that benefit only women, and that women are somehow indoctrinated and taught to leverage their sexuality and sexual gatekeeping as a cabal.

I've known red pill guys that literally believe that women are a secret society that have ensured that men live a lie all of their life so women get whatever they want for free forever, for example. Basically, men are the underclass victim servant class subordinate to women, and always have been. We only exist to buy them things (if we're 'nice guys), or bone (if we're musclebound bad boys). Otherwise, we don't serve a purpose at all except as playthings.

The lie - and where "red pill" comes from - is that men are in charge and that male privilege is a thing. They assert the opposite is actually true, and reality is the inverse of that: women are actually in control of everything, especially relationships, money, and sex, and that they have concocted this while feminism thing as a cover for this secret reality. If you 'swallow the red pill', as I did, you will wake up in a way that's akin to Morpheous (Athol Kay) giving you the ability to 'wake up' from the illusion and see the reality for what it is - like Neo did in the Matrix, and became the saviour of mankind.

That's literally where much of this comes from. One guy, named Athol Kay, that discovered that his wife actually liked to have sex with him more when he acted more macho. Using that divine revelation, he decided that women are lying to men (and sometimes themselves) when they say they want to be with a man that treats him well, and really only want to be with a man that treats her like dirt and takes her to 'pound town.' His literal term for sex that women actually like, which is quite different than what they often say they want. He actually also asserted to me once that women need to have semen inside of them, because it gives them a testosterone boost that they sorely need to be healthy and have a good libido. So you need to **** a woman relentlessly so that she'll have a sex drive. But then you need to be careful, because she might go after a more dominant male than you. I did the math on this once, and told him he was full of **** because the amount was so minute, but he was a nurse and that made me wrong.

At any rate, women only keep the 'nice guy' around to pay for everything, do everything, and provide her with a pedestal to sit on while they pine for, or cheat with the neanderthal that takes her to said 'pound town.'

This morphed into the PUA (Pick Up Artist) movement that ran with these ideas to come up with 'negging' (to insult a woman to assert your dominance and get her panties to somehow drop) and other bizarre concoctions mixed in with 'be confident even when you don't feel like it' which actually can be very successful. 

It also morphed into the MGTOW movement, which took all of that, and said 'FU Chads and Staceys, I'm outta here.' These guys essentially don't want to take a risk, are deeply concerned about money grubbing women taking their stuff, and claim to have just checked out of the whole game. Which would be fine if they would just be quiet about it. 

Sorry for the rant. This whole thing deeply pisses me off, mostly because I was a red pill guy and that disgusts me, and I used to know the aforementioned Kay/Morpheous fairly well.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Marduk said:


> Some MGTOW guys, along with their red pill cousins, somehow think that women are this ultra-secret powerful divine sisterhood


 @Marduk, thank you for this post! I find it very well thought out and informative - probably better and more succinct than anything else I've read on the topic.

I have only been a bit curious about this whole "movement," but am concerned that there are some incels who are so disillusioned that they can - and sometimes have - resort to violence, rape, and murder.


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## hilariouslaughter (Jan 15, 2020)

Mr The Other said:


> Married but Happy said:
> 
> 
> > Officials in Texas are warning of an upcoming “Incel Rebellion” in a new report titiled “Texas Domestic Terrorism Threat Assessment.”
> ...


 The problem with all of these movements and any suppos'd evidence that it's dangerous for a societee when men don't get sex is the underlying implication that men are entitled to 6 and women should just go ahead and give it to them. Sorry, nope.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

@Marduk You did a really nice job of breaking all of that down.

The problem with the whole Red Pill thing is that his whole theory (and some parts)actually is true for a subset of the population. Yes, there are some women who take advantage of "nice guys" (and their wallets), some women prefer pound-town sex, there are men who have been screwed over in divorces by the system, etc. There is a little bit of truth in his theory, in that there will be somewhere at least one man or women that it actually applies to, because humans are a very diverse species in all manners of speaking, in their behavior, in their preferences. 

But he takes this wide brush, and says, my theory is true for EVERYONE, when it simply isn't. He asserts that his entire theory is universally applicable, when NONE of his theory is universally applicable. But just enough of it is applicable to a certain subset of men that they buy into the whole ideology.

When you start treating people as a stereotyped instead of an individual, you lose your ability to relate and create a connection, and you begin to lose your humanity. With each anti-interaction, you lose a little more and a little more.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

hilariouslaughter said:


> The problem with all of these movements and any suppos'd evidence that it's dangerous for a societee when men don't get sex is the underlying implication that men are entitled to 6 and women should just go ahead and give it to them. Sorry, nope.


That's a non-sequitur. That it may in fact be objectively dangerous does not prescribe a specific solution. 

We could decide to do many things in response to "it's dangerous".

We could do nothing, as we are doing now, and live with the occasional violent outburst.
We could create our own version of comfort women, as you fear.
We could castrate all men who cannot prove they have access to a sex partner.
We could underwrite the prostitution industry.

You need food to live. Am I obligated to give it to you?


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Marduk said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> > Only I think MGTOWs do blame women and society for empowering them. But agree with everything else you said.
> ...


There is some wisdom in what they talk about and I can't argue too much with the results. Some of it may have its roots in evolution, who knows. Its certainly spoke to me after my divorce and I ran with it for awhile. I think that's how most find it. I followed the whole Rational Male and its offshoots... I think Athol came after Rollo so not sure I'd label him Morpheus. It's all somewhat interesting but also completely devoid of meaning. I took what I needed and left the rest.

After awhile it's just too much negativity in your life. You just get sucked into this swirl of hatred that binds you. Better to free yourself of that hate and better yourself in more positive ways...one that doesn't involve focusing on the opposite sex as good or bad. Same can be said for modern day feminism and any of these reverse red pill philosophies. They do nothing but create dissention.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Married but Happy said:


> @Marduk, thank you for this post! I find it very well thought out and informative - probably better and more succinct than anything else I've read on the topic.
> 
> I have only been a bit curious about this whole "movement," but am concerned that there are some incels who are so disillusioned that they can - and sometimes have - resort to violence, rape, and murder.


It’s not disillusionment. 

It’s entitlement, narcissism, pretending to be the victim, and dehumanization of women. 

Women, to these guys, are playthings with delusions of grandeur. ‘Evolutionary biology’ or ‘God’ has designed them to be things to be used, but they’ve somehow become dominant through their sexuality and by pretending to be the victim. 

Therefore, to them, is it not only ok to use them as men want, but it’s the right thing to do. And, they think they secretly like to be used, even traumatically without their consent! 

It’s also why I have such a big problem with Trump. He’s a classic red pill guy. Consider quotes like:

"It is a very scary time for young men in America, where you can be guilty of something you may not be guilty of. … Women are doing great." Trump, oct 2018

"Women have one of the great acts of all time. The smart ones act very feminine and needy, but inside they are real killers. The person who came up with the expression 'the weaker sex' was either very naive or had to be kidding. I have seen women manipulate men with just a twitch of their eye — or perhaps another body part." - Trump, 1997

Rape culture writ large and in charge. 

Sorry to make it political, but there it is.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

FeministInPink said:


> @Marduk You did a really nice job of breaking all of that down.
> 
> The problem with the whole Red Pill thing is that his whole theory (and some parts)actually is true for a subset of the population. Yes, there are some women who take advantage of "nice guys" (and their wallets), some women prefer pound-town sex, there are men who have been screwed over in divorces by the system, etc. There is a little bit of truth in his theory, in that there will be somewhere at least one man or women that it actually applies to, because humans are a very diverse species in all manners of speaking, in their behavior, in their preferences.


Totally agree. I can’t remember the quote, but it was from someone in counterintelligence, and went something like ‘the best way to sell a lie is with the truth.’

So, yes, lots of this red pill or PUA stuff actually works. To a disturbingly large extent. 

It’s also why people feel free to extend it way too far, and do some very dangerous things. 



> But he takes this wide brush, and says, my theory is true for EVERYONE, when it simply isn't. He asserts that his entire theory is universally applicable, when NONE of his theory is universally applicable. But just enough of it is applicable to a certain subset of men that they buy into the whole ideology.


Kay literally once told me something to the extent of “if a woman says she doesn’t want to be dominated and have rough sex, she’s either lying or doesn’t know that she actually wants it because she’s never had it.”



> When you start treating people as a stereotyped instead of an individual, you lose your ability to relate and create a connection, and you begin to lose your humanity. With each anti-interaction, you lose a little more and a little more.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Yup. You also get lost in the nonsense, rather than just realizing that confident, expressive, and decisive people are often more attractive than the opposite. 

And that’s true for most people, regardless of sex. But not universally. But it’s enough to tip the odds and for guys like this to stack their own misogyny on top of it.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> There is some wisdom in what they talk about and I can't argue too much with the results. Some of it may have its roots in evolution, who knows. Its certainly spoke to me after my divorce and I ran with it for awhile. I think that's how most find it. I followed the whole Rational Male and its offshoots... I think Athol came after Rollo so not sure I'd label him Morpheus. It's all somewhat interesting but also completely devoid of meaning. I took what I needed and left the rest.
> 
> After awhile it's just too much negativity in your life. You just get sucked into this swirl of hatred that binds you. Better to free yourself of that hate and better yourself in more positive ways...one that doesn't involve focusing on the opposite sex as good or bad. Same can be said for modern day feminism and any of these reverse red pill philosophies. They do nothing but create dissention.


Oh he picked up stuff from the man-o-sphere, no doubt. But he did claim the red pill as his concept, and he did think PUAs were just caught up in women’s sexual games, they were just better at it than most guys. 

To him, the highest calling for a man was to be married to a woman that was almost, but very much not quite your equal. He labeled himself Morpheus, at least to me. He very much saw himself that way. As in the rest of us poor neos have it easy, because he had to be the one to break free and show us the way. 

He liked the Star Trek captain/first officer model, which got weird with Kirk/Spock homoeroticism. But that was many of this areas weirdnesses.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Marduk said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> > There is some wisdom in what they talk about and I can't argue too much with the results. Some of it may have its roots in evolution, who knows. Its certainly spoke to me after my divorce and I ran with it for awhile. I think that's how most find it. I followed the whole Rational Male and its offshoots... I think Athol came after Rollo so not sure I'd label him Morpheus. It's all somewhat interesting but also completely devoid of meaning. I took what I needed and left the rest.
> ...


It was an entertaining book if nothing else.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

hilariouslaughter said:


> The problem with all of these movements and any suppos'd evidence that it's dangerous for a societee when men don't get sex is the underlying implication that men are entitled to 6 and women should just go ahead and give it to them. Sorry, nope.


Indeed.

Young men in general are associated with unrest in society. Sexually fustrated young men are associated even more so and also in more modern societies with the far right.

The difficulty in any discussion is:
- Moral judgement might bring the implication that men deserve women. Clearly not.
- Moral judgement might condemn the men for not being good enough. Clearly not.
- The social stigma of sexual fustration (and certainly fustrated masculinity) makes the association of it with the far right seem to be one dismissing the far right. Clearly not.

Historically, socieities have killed lots of their young men off in wars or put them in monasteries.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> There is some wisdom in what they talk about and I can't argue too much with the results. Some of it may have its roots in evolution, who knows. Its certainly spoke to me after my divorce and I ran with it for awhile. I think that's how most find it. I followed the whole Rational Male and its offshoots... I think Athol came after Rollo so not sure I'd label him Morpheus. It's all somewhat interesting but also completely devoid of meaning. I took what I needed and left the rest.
> 
> After awhile it's just too much negativity in your life. You just get sucked into this swirl of hatred that binds you. Better to free yourself of that hate and better yourself in more positive ways...one that doesn't involve focusing on the opposite sex as good or bad. Same can be said for modern day feminism and any of these reverse red pill philosophies. They do nothing but create dissention.


There are parts of red pill that I actually like. The comparisons with The Matrix are cringe worthy, but what bothers me is that they have not swalloed the red pill. We are domesticated animals, and they have correctly realised that our domestication is not good for us and not true morality. We should grow out of it. Spirituality would agree.

We are also animals, you will value material things like animals do and want status like animals do, we should see above that as it is not good for us, or true morality either. But that is where the red pill gets stuck. 

They were brave enough to recognise the friction between the animal and their domestication, but think that is the end of wisdom and really mind-blowing. It is like the main characters in The Matrix did not try to bring the matrix down, but used their insight to get a nicer house within it.

It is a good and healthy stage to go through and many people do not. 

People are full of **** are rarely know themselves well. Those who recognise that have a great career in sales and marketing and will have fun successful relationship lives. But, to use that to be a happy animal is swallowing the blue pill.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> I agree that attitude is most important and definitely something that can be adjusted.
> 
> Refusing to put in the effort necessary isn't an excuse.
> 
> I wonder if some of these guys just don't attract the hot ladies and ignore all the others they might have a shot at?


I don't think they attract anyone, but I could be wrong.
I have experience on both sides of this issue, so I'm possibly qualified to comment on it reasonably.
In college I was fairly successful with girls even though I'm not conventionally attractive, largely because I had a DGAF attitude, but without knowing that was important.
After college I had long dry spells because I didn't realize how important that attitude is.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

tech-novelist said:


> I don't think they attract anyone, but I could be wrong.
> I have experience on both sides of this issue, so I'm possibly qualified to comment on it reasonably.
> In college I was fairly successful with girls even though I'm not conventionally attractive, largely because I had a DGAF attitude, but without knowing that was important.
> After college I had long dry spells because I didn't realize how important that attitude is.


I have known of many women who would go for these guys if they just realized that they could be had.

You are correct that a lot of these fellows are so repulsive in their attitudes that no one even can be interested.

It is a choice they are making. They basically want women to be compelled to perform sex with them just because and relegate women to the status of sex dolls or slaves.

Since that isn't reality, thank God, they are choosing to remain celibate.


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