# Sexless in Seattle



## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

Actually, I don't live in Seattle but I thought it was a cute title.  I'm going to throw myself in with those here who are oversexed and married to undersexed partners. 

I'm 47 years old and been married for 22 years and my husband is a recovering alcoholic from whom I've been separated from for almost 6 months now. He is now sober for 6 weeks and we get along much better to the point where we are friends again and spend time together. We see each other on most weekends now that he's stopped drinking. The problem is we both seem to have different ideas of what that relationship should BE. He seems to want to be buddies, which is fine with me but I'd like to have some SEX thrown in as well! 

Our sex life though out our marriage was up and down. For almost 10 years we had lousy sex and we both did things that we resent each other for. We both rejected each other and did hurtful things in our marriage. But about 2.5 years ago we "reconciled" and worked to rebuild our relationship and one of the things that was rekindled was our sexual passion. 

For two years we had GREAT sex. Even last summer, in the beginning stages of his drinking, it was the BEST sex we'd ever had. It's almost cruel because we had some of our best times when he was drunk. As recently as last fall he couldn't keep his hands off me. When I point out now how he was so great and passionate at this time last year he'll say "Well, I was really drunk then"..So I guess he can only feel sexual when he's drinking? Seems like it.:scratchhead:

Fast forward to the present and he's now sober after almost a year of constant drinking and dealing with alcoholism. I want to add that I'm in the best shape now that I've been in years. He readily admits that. I lost a ton of weight, dress in sexy clothes, work out 5 days a week and look and feel great. I'm 47 years old but have been told I pass for 35. He says over and over that it's not how I look...that's it's all on him. I wonder if this is a by product of his drinking and now being sober?  

His sex drive was ebbing in the last days of his drinking because he was so badly inebriated and it affected him physically and mentally. I was hoping that once he got sober we could have a great "dating" relationship and rebuild our marriage. Towards the end of his drinking he couldn't even maintain an erection. He doesn't have that problem now but he doesn't last all that long nor does he seem to care. 

One problem is that he keeps saying that he feels it's more important that we be "friends first" and has no problem with our relationship being "platonic" rather then romantic and is doing everything possible to push me away sexually. He is great otherwise. He and I have fun hanging out and being with each other. He treats me well and respectfully but he has NO interest in sex! In fact, he's not all that interested in ANY physical affection at all! He barely touches me. It's really just like hanging out with one of my friends, not my husband. 

I've tried everything..From dressing sexy to being super nice and sweet to being seductive to the point where I'm practically raping him. I will do just about anything sexually. I have no problem with giving BJs, anal sex, bondage, toys, etc, etc. I'm very free spirited when it comes to sex.

Once he loved that about us but now and he acts bored at best and gets angry with me if I "pressure" him too much by being aggressive towards him. He says he "enjoys" the sexual attention but has no intention of returning it. He doesn't seem to feel any guilt or remorse about always being on the receiving end. If anything he comes off as being entitled to it! 

If I bring up going to the doctor or counseling he goes completely crazy, refuses to talk to me and tells me to leave him the hell alone. He says I'm pushing him away even more by "bothering" him about it. The last two weekends when I tried to get him to stay awake and make love to me he pretty much yelled at me and shunned me and when I brought it up he told me in an almost cruel way that it was "my problem, not his" and there's nothing I can do about it to make it better. He claims that he's turned on me but he has a low sex drive and that there's nothing wrong with it. 

Well, for me, there IS something wrong. Like you I feel rejected, angry and sad. I want to have mad, passionate sex with the man I love! I want him to at least like KISSING me! Instead he pushes me away after a bit of just kissing and being affectionate, which really hurts. I feel like every time he does that he plunges a knife right into the depths of my emotional soul. 

I went though this for 10 years in our marriage and then, like a starving man who is allowed to feed at an all-you-can-eat buffet I was allowed to gorge myself myself for a few years of great sex and now I'm cut off ONCE again. However this time I'm not willing to let myself be dragged through the emotional and physical mud..not at this stage of my life! IMO there are few things in life more degrading and sad than being reduced to begging your spouse to make love to you and that is just what is happening. 

So what am I to do?  I love this man and want to build a lasting and healthy relationship with him but I'm not going to expose myself to the pain and hurt of rejection over and over again. I don't want to have an affair or find someone else. We are living separately but not considering divorce but I wonder where this is going to go if this continues. He actually TOLD me this past Sunday that he wouldn't "blame me" if I did go find someone else! He said he'd "miss me" but if "that is the way it's going to be he'd accept it!" :wtf: 

What really gets me is how cold and nasty he can be about this. Is it really such an unreasonable thing to want to have sex and make love to someone you love and desire? He says I'm "sexually obsessed" but I find that hard to believe considering that I'm not even asking him to make love to me during the week (we see each other on weekends only). 

I've been reading dozens of posts in this forum from men and women about this situation and no one seems to have an answer. At this point I'm going to go out and buy some "toys" (he actually bought the last ones we used together but I think he threw them out). Short term, this will allow me to satisfy myself so that I don't keep bugging him but IMO this like throwing a starving dog a bone with a few scraps of meat. It might stave off the hunger pains but it does little to satisfy in the long run. 

I don't know if this is something that time or my pulling back from him physically and emotionally can fix. I do know that I need to put some distance between us, especially emotionally. When he stopped drinking I was fully committed to giving our marriage another shot and doing everything I could to make it work but I need to have something given to me in return. Yes, I appreciate having dinners paid for me and spending time together as "friends" but I also need to have a MARITAL relationship and for me, that means good sex! I can't give of myself unconditionally and get nothing in return. I feel like a plant that is dying for some water!

Right now I'm feeling that ONCE AGAIN I am going to put some distance between us if only to maintain my own sense of well being not be beat to hell emotionally. Being separated physically is a big help with this as at least it's not like it used to be when for years I would climb into bed each night and find him fully clothed and facing in the opposite direction ignoring me..but it's getting damn close. 

At this point in my life though I don't think I can take that again.  I'm well aware that I'm not as young as I used to be and am unwilling and unable to put myself through this all over again. I'm wondering what it is I can or should do not only to preserve my marital relationship with my husband but preserve my sanity and self esteem as well.


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## Crankshaw (Jan 12, 2011)

Sounds almost like he is embarrassed that he has trouble maintaing and lasting the distance.


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## Smackdown (Feb 21, 2011)

Quitting any habit is tough, sex can be addictive, he may be just be being cautious. One addiction leads to another and he needs to be in control over all his life for a while before he feels comfortable. He may feel the drinking is related to the sex so in order to stay sober he feels the sex has to stop for a while.
I quit drinking after 10+ years, it was hard and I remember sex was hard for me and my wife asked if it would ever return, it did but it took a few months. Be patient, in the long run it'll all be worth it, he just needs a little time.
Good Luck!
Mouse


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

Crankshaw said:


> Sounds almost like he is embarrassed that he has trouble maintaing and lasting the distance.


:rofl: Hey there Crank! I've been away a bit and am hoping all is well with you. I hear you've been on Facebook a lot.  I just starting "re" logging on here myself now that I have more time in the evenings. 

Actually when he was drinking he didn't "erect" or "maintain" anything. It was pretty sad. I chalked it up to his physical condition with the drinking, smoking. 

He stopped drinking about 6 weeks ago. He's now pretty much back physically to where he was before. All of his "parts" are working. A few weekends ago one night at about 3 am I woke up and he had this uh.."massive" uh..you know :ezpi_wink1: :yawn2: :thumbup: 

My reaction was :yay: and I proceeded to go down on him. He was actually ANNOYED. Snapped at me to leave him alone and when I protested he said to take my complaining somewhere else. Nice. 

Same thing happened this past weekend when I tried to seduce him with a back rub and then a BJ. When it came to my turn he was falling asleep (can't tell you HOW aggravating and frustrating that is!) and then when I took too "long" (I wonder why :banghead he said "You always do this" and turned over and ignored me. I had to take a cold shower and a bath along with a valium to finally get to sleep. 

Then later on that day I tried to speak to him and we had the conversation I described above. He told me it was my problem, I was being selfish, there was nothing wrong with him, etc, etc. 

He's literally cold. He's very pleasant and nice to me. Treats me well, as a buddy would. Pays my meals and expenses when we are together. We have great conversation and fun doing stuff. But ANY physical affections is gone. He rarely touches me. He never even kisses me hello! He doesn't kiss for more than a few seconds and breaks away. He never grabs me and rarely compliments me. If he does that's as far as it goes. 

This is a man who couldn't keep his hands off me last year. One day we went kayaking together and he was trying to have sex with me in the middle of the river!  I was flirting like mad with him, taking off my top ,etc, etc. It was great fun! I couldn't get enough of it. We had TERRIFIC sex! He went out and bought toys, lotions and we USED them. We would come home from the clubs at 2 am and screw around like teenage bunnies. It was amazing. It was JUST what I wanted! I want it back!

But of course, he was drinking then. He points that out. "I was very drunk then". Geez, so then the price I had to pay was live with an out of control alcoholic for six months afterwards that took a wrecking ball to our lives? :slap:

I just want to have a good relationship as friends AND lovers and have that passionate sex life back. We had it once and he is ABLE to do it physically but emotionally and mentally he isn't there. He's turned into a shell of his former self. He says he's happy but I wonder. He takes pride in the fact that he goes to bed at 10pm now. 

It's amazing..he moved into his deceased father's house and has turned into his 90 year old father! :banghead: I guess it's my FIL's revenge on me.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Going out on a limb here but some men don't like aggressive, intimidating women. He's nicely (as much as possible) asked you to back off while he gets his life back together. Haven't you heard that it's recommended the addicts NOT get involved in relationships until they've been clean a while (years not weeks). He's simply not ready for the intimacy. 

I'd do a 180 and give him space. I think if you did he'd come around sooner than you think but it needs to be his idea not yours.

There is another sad possibility. He might have liked you better when he was drunk and now that he's sober...not so much. The movie 28 days comes to mind. In the end she breaks it off with her boyfriend because she's changed but he hasn't.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

:rant: First of all, he wasn't "nice" Well maybe "nice" to you is being told that you are selfish and stupid for wanting to get intimate with the person you love. In my book, that isn't "nice" at all. It's downright cruel. 

It's all very interesting and good for you to say these things and make these off the cuff judgements but let me embellish a bit here so you can see where I'm coming from before you paint me as some unreasonable, selfish harpie that only cares about getting my rocks off. 

In the earlier days of our marriage he was troubled by the fact that I wasn't AGGRESSIVE enough. He brings up time and time again about how when we were first dating and married it was he who had to initiate things, that I wasn't lusting after him, etc, etc. He has also said time and time again how much he appreciates my particular "brand" of personality (that being aggressive, strong, daring, etc.). He says he doesn't like "wimpy" women. So let's cross that line of reasoning out, shall we? 

When we reconciled 2 years ago it was HE who came on to me with the words "So what are your sexual fantasies?" It was Christmas Eve 2008, 19 years to the day that he proposed marriage to me. We were on the verge of separation then. We barely had a marriage and were basically living separate lives with our own hobbies, friends, etc. He knew that it was going to be coming to an end so to his credit he made a last ditch attempt and I responded. We spent hours and then days talking and supposedly working things out. He bought sex toys, bought me flowers, called me up every day to tell me he loved me and finally turned into the kind of man I'd wanted and dreamed of having..and I responded just as strongly both in the bedroom and outside it. I made a full scale effort to build a life together. One example was to buy $3000 worth of kayaking gear so we could do this activity together. I also canceled all the plans and events I'd booked to do by myself (such as my Jeep Jamboree) and spending what money I had saved on US...such as activities together, vacations with the family. We really did work as a team to rebuild our marriage..at first. 

For almost two years we seemed fine. But he just couldn't let the past go. He would bring up time and time again all my past indiscretions, rehash all the things that had been wrong. I kept begging him to put it behind us and tried to convince him that some of the craziness that was in his head wasn't true. I think that's when the Beginning of the End was beginning. Maybe it was mid life crisis, depression..I don't know. It's definitely something that lingers to this very day and is like a black haze hanging over our marriage. 

Any remorse he had expressed when we first started our reconciliation was slowly rescinded and he started nagging and bothering me about everything I did. I'd started playing video games with him because he liked to do so and kept encouraging me to join him in his game. For awhile we had a GREAT time doing this together. Then HE got bored with the game and decided to spend his nights watching TV and got angry when I wanted to continue playing on the computer and I HATE spending hours watching TV. He wouldn't compromise on this..it was do what he said or it was my fault. 

We had started going out to clubs (something he SAID that he's always wanted to do!) and spent weekends kayaking and biking and going to dinner and then suddenly he started complaining that it was all I wanted to do..that he wanted to spend a quiet night at home instead. After 15 years of being prisoners in the house because we had young children and no babysitter the LAST thing I wanted to do as spend Saturday nights at home and at first HE felt the same way. Then he changed so I was supposed to change too!

Looking back on this, I think he was becoming depressed. By the time I realized what was happening it was too late. His casual drinking became full blown alcoholism (something that runs in his family, sad to say  ). After considerable effort, I was able to get him to go into rehab and stop drinking once but he went back to drinking a short time after and it was even worse the second time. By the end of last year our life was in shambles, with his destroying half our family business and moving in his father's house and bouncing thousands of dollars in checks. Thank goodness I'd saved some money. 

Did I mention how he went through the savings account I'd built up so we could buy a boat together and blew through it because he decided he wanted to stay home and drink all day and night instead of work? Did I mention how each morning he would tell me that he was going to work and then I'd have his customers calling and asking where he was only to go home and see him sitting on the porch completely soused? Did I tell you how I found him curled up in a ball in our basement after consuming EIGHTEEN BEERS?

There's plenty more but suffice to say, the night he left our house, me and my kids breathed a sigh of relief and I set about to rebuild our business and move me and my kids into a new apartment that we could afford to stay in, instead of the drafty old house we had been renting that cost $700/month to heat. Thank goodness I had the foresight to squirrel some money away and DID indeed keep my finances separate from his. He was always pressuring me to "combine" our finances and I resisted and I'm glad as hell that I did. It saved us in the end. 

He has spent months on his father's porch, drinking, smoking and basically spending his inheritance away. That's when I did the 180 and it DID work. I stopped calling him, I kept contact nonexistent as possible and when I did see him I was sweet and polite and talked about the weather and kept the conversation as brief as possible. I did everything I could to show him that I was moving on with my life without him and I was actually beginning to believe it myself. I was at the point where I was planning on seeing an attorney and thinking of how to file for divorce at some point if things didn't change. 

Then one day, a week after calling me up berating me for "not caring enough to call" (obviously he was very drunk so I just said goodbye and hung up).. HE called ME and asked to talk and begged me to come over to his house. He then told me that he'd stopped drinking and told me that he wanted to include me in his life..that I should "just give him a chance". 

My response? I told him "Fine _but I didn't want to be his buddy, but his WIFE_". I made that QUITE CLEAR. And part of being a WIFE is that the HUSBAND should want to KISS HER, HUG HER, talk to her on the phone more than once a week and not act annoyed when she calls him and, oh yes..HAVE SEX WITH HER!! Oh silly me, what a horrid thing to want!!  :slap:

Have you ever felt the rejection and pain of someone pushing you away when you tried to be affectionate and kiss them, never mind make love to them? If you haven't then you have endured far less than I. For TEN years of my 20 year marriage I would climb into bed with a husband that was FULLY CLOTHED in a sweater and jeans and would turn his back on me when I even tried to cuddle with him. Now, after a brief respite when the man I loved FINALLY acted like he loved me in a passionate, sexual way that I've desired for YEARS it looks as if that it's going back to those dark days. Imagine how that feels? 

But I'm not 30 years old anymore. I don't have YEARS to wait anymore. Been there, done that. At this point in my life I'm well aware that my years as a desirable woman are indeed numbered. Right now I still look great for my age. I'm in good shape and healthy and energetic but I do see the light at the end of my tunnel. I saw my father die at less than 20 years older than I am now of cancer within 6 months. He was trapped in a nasty, loveless marriage waiting for a time when he could live his life and be happy. He never got that chance. 

I'm not repeating my father's mistakes. I've given my husband the best years of my life and put up with untold episodes of emotional and verbal abuse. I've abused _myself_ because of the pain I've felt inside and I have the scars on my wrists and legs to prove it. This man never even visited me when I was committed to a mental institution. You know what he did? He consulted a DIVORCE attorney and then bragged about doing this to me afterwards. The day I returned home almost a month later he gave me a look like I was scum and I went in the pouring rain to a hotel room and contemplated slitting my wrists. It was the closest I'd ever come to suicide and somehow I managed to climb out of that hole, despite his behavior towards me, his verbal and emotional abuse, the lack of affection and sex and ignoring me I managed to rebuild my life and go back to work and become a whole person once again. I managed to then forgive and want to rebuild a life and marriage with him again and to learn to love and trust him as I hadn't done in years..and to what end? 

TEN YEARS almost to the day I was committed he went in for rehab for his alcoholism and depression. He was in the EXACT same building I was, in the exact SAME floor and right across in the opposite wing! It was the eeriest experience in my life when I went in to visit him after he was admitted. 

When HE went in the hospital I was with him when he got admitted (I helped GET him admitted!). I visited him EVERY DAY. I called him EVERY DAY and on the day he was let out form that hospital I left him $100 cash and a full tank of gas in my car to drive up to Lake George, a place that we both love to be and join me and our kids at a campsite that I went through great lengths to procure and set up in anticipation of his joining us. We drove up in a rental boat and picked him up at the dock. I paid for it ALL without hesitation. I just wanted him to feel good and welcome after all we'd been through and put the nightmare behind us.

He spent a restful, happy week enjoying himself. When he went back to work I'd taken over a huge part of his duties. For the umpteenth time that summer I called his customers, did his scheduling, fixed EVERYTHING that he'd left a mess of and took on a huge share of his workload so he wouldn't have to work as hard as he did. I was blaming myself in large part because he had indeed worked himself too hard. 

When he got out of the hospital he PROMISED me then things would be different and SIX WEEKS later he was back to drinking and destroyed our business. Why? Because his father broke his hip and he couldn't hack it so he decided to take a wrecking ball to our livelihood, our marriage and my kid's lives. 

And did I divorce him? NO. I told him I was still his friend, I let him have full access to our kids and despite his being a total A hole to me for months I was there for him. The morning after we'd had a huge fight where he once again told me about how horrid a person I was he woke up to find that his father had died in his sleep. For two hours he'd laid curled up in a ball sobbing and finally called me at 6am to tell me what happened. 

I told him "Don't do anything, I'll be right there" and rushed over to his house and was there by 6:30am and single handedly talked to the police, the coroner and arranged his father's funeral and took off 3 days of work and lost hundreds of dollars in salary as a result. What did he do? He sat and drank and blew off the wake for his father TWICE and if it hadn't been for me he wouldn't have even BEEN at the funeral! I had to come over and pick him up because he couldn't even drive himself. He staggered into my car with a glass full of rum and juice and carrying a coke bottle with his spare supply. Everyone who knew us watched this..and this from a man who didn't want anyone to know that he was still drinking!

Or how about the time he passed out and called me at 1 am not knowing what YEAR it was and why he was in his father's house and not "home"? Yah, he blacked out and came up with some excuse about how he tripped and fell or some such nonsense. I went over there without hesitation that time too!

By the time he decided to "get sober because he wouldn't be able to live life again" my daughter wouldn't even stay in the same building with him, He'd blown off my son after telling him he'd pick him up for a weekend visit and I was in almost complete non-contact with him. He'd blown off his friends too. He was utterly alone. But will he admit that he'd done anything wrong? No. He has STILL not shown one iota of regret or remorse. In fact, he told me that he was GLAD that he had done his drinking because it made him realize how "short" life was. Now he tells me how he won't "put up with any of my BS anymore" when I tell him that I want us to be affectionate and sexual? He tells me I'm "selfish" and "stupid" for wanting to make love to him!! :wtf: This is how he tells me NICELY that he needs his SPACE? :slap:

Ok, maybe he does need time. That makes sense but there is a WAY to say it with compassion and love, not just push someone away and call them a FOOL, which is exactly what he does to me. But he excuses that by telling me how wonderful it is that he laid out money for the movers to come and take our stuff out of our old house to our new apartment, or to pay to repair my car, or to pay for our health insurance or buy my daughter a car and my son a computer or pay for my dinner and expenses when we go out. Never mind that I pay ALL the living expenses for me AND OUR KIDS. The rent, the food, the clothes, the utilities, the insurance, etc, etc.

That said, YES, I'm truly grateful and appreciative for for all he has done and TELL HIM SO all the time but if I say ONE thing he doesn't like or agree with then he takes a verbal and emotional jackhammer to my very soul and psyche. He has told me that "he'd miss me but it's fine if I found someone else" and that "if I divorce him I won't get a penny" and I have never even told him I was looking to find anyone else, or that I wanted to go out and date or divorce him! But he has threatened to divorce me many, many times. At one point he threatened divorce every time we argued. When we were living together he would ALWAYS say "Why don't you just leave" or tell me to get the hell out and several times he would actually go to push me out the door. Why I didn't turn and walk out is beyond my comprehension. 

A lot of my friends think I'm crazy for NOT divorcing him but I love the guy! We have a connection that I've felt ever since I met him at age 17. So yeah, I'm feeling a bit down about all this and when he pushes me away both emotionally and physically YOU BET I feel resentful and angry!!  When he stopped drinking and told me to give him "another chance" I was more than willing to. I've made REAL attempts to change. To not bug him, to not argue, to be nice and giving and give him the space he wants. It's been HIM that has asked ME to do things. I was building my OWN life when he told me he wanted back and I've done everything I can to make him feel welcome. So yeah, I'm feeling a bit put off by the fact that the man doesn't want to make love to me. 

So screw him if he feels "intimidated" and turned off. It's time he gives back some and I don't mean whipping out a credit card. THAT is easy to do. Giving of YOURSELF even if you don't always want to or it isn't always convenient to do so is quite another thing and that's something I have yet to see. :rant:

So what do I do now? I guess go back to the 180 as you suggest and buy myself a vibrator and carry on as I have before..by myself. 

If he wants a buddy, then I'll be one because I genuinely like and enjoy his company and want to maintain a good relationship in SOME ways. But now that he's made it clear how he feels I'll be going in with eyes wide open and I won't be sharing his bed anymore. Climbing into a bed with a man who doesn't want me sexually is NOT going to happen any more in my life. I'd rather stay in my OWN bed in my OWN house than do that! Thank goodness I have the means to support myself both financially and emotionally now whereas I didn't years ago. 

Regardless of what he thinks I've done in the past, I don't make a habit of having sex with my male friends and if wants to confine our relationship to that realm then he'll be treated just like that: as a friend. Maybe one day he'll figure out what he's missing. Maybe not. Once again, the ball is in his court. 

What I won't do is continue begging and pleading that should be rightfully be coming to me in what should be a loving relationship but isn't.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

Smackdown said:


> Quitting any habit is tough, sex can be addictive, he may be just be being cautious. One addiction leads to another and he needs to be in control over all his life for a while before he feels comfortable. He may feel the drinking is related to the sex so in order to stay sober he feels the sex has to stop for a while.
> I quit drinking after 10+ years, it was hard and I remember sex was hard for me and my wife asked if it would ever return, it did but it took a few months. Be patient, in the long run it'll all be worth it, he just needs a little time.
> Good Luck!
> Mouse


I want to thank you for your compassionate response.  I meant to respond earlier but I had to get to work and I got "sidetracked" by the later post where I felt I had to embellish things a bit, if only by means of defending myself from being painted as unreasonable and demanding. 

I have considered what it is that you have stated: That he isn't ready as a result of his stopping drinking and he needs time to cope. I do wish he was undergoing some sort of therapy to help him through this but he won't hear of it. He's stubborn like that. He fully believes that he's capable of taking care of himself and "doctors make things worse". This from a man who was an Aviation Medical Technician in the Navy. That means Corpsman for those who don't know. 

He has been through a lot of emotional upheaval and I give him a LOT of credit for stopping drinking and staying sober for almost two months now. I'm amazed that he did stop drinking and continues to remain sober. I blame myself in some part for his going back to drinking the first time. The first time I wanted us to go back to our "old life" and he didn't seem to think it was a problem to continue to go to bars and yes, drink. What a fool I was to believe that! Now I don't order so much as coffee with Kahlua in his presence!

I don't bother him about anything at all..except the sex because well, that cuts really deep right to my self esteem as both a woman and wife. 

BUT rather than argue and get angry and freak out on him (as I often did when we were still together), I told him how I felt in a compassionate, calm manner. I begged him to tell me what was wrong and HOW I COULD MAKE THINGS BETTER? I then listened to him rant on about how horrible I was to want to have sex with him, about how stupid and selfish I was and... told him that I understood. It doesn't make it hurt less but at least I came off better. 

The next day I called to say that I'm glad that our relationship is much better and that I'm glad he doesn't drink and I look forward to us spending good times together as friends..and I meant that. That was this past Monday and it was the last time I intend to call him. The 180 has begun again in that respect. I will no longer bother him with calling him or dropping in or anything of that sort.

As I said before, the ball is in HIS court. He has to call me. He has to ask me to do things and if he wants to act like a husband again then he's going to have to take the steps to do it. 

I guess you can call it a "modified 180" in that I'm going to live my life without him in many ways and give him the space he needs both to preserve my own dignity and emotional health and give him the space he wants,desires and obviously needs so he can come to some sort of conclusion about what it is he really wants.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

I stand corrected. I'm so very sorry if I misjudged you. Thank you for clearing that up. It's so hard to get the whole story from just one post sometimes. 

Just reading all that you've gone through exhausted me. That's one heck of a relationship you've got there. Wow.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Freak On a Leash said:


> When we reconciled 2 years ago it was HE who came on to me with the words "So what are your sexual fantasies?" It was Christmas Eve 2008, 19 years to the day that he proposed marriage to me. We were on the verge of separation then. We barely had a marriage and were basically living separate lives with our own hobbies, friends, etc. He knew that it was going to be coming to an end so to his credit he made a last ditch attempt and I responded. We spent hours and then days talking and supposedly working things out. He bought sex toys, bought me flowers, called me up every day to tell me he loved me and finally turned into the kind of man I'd wanted and dreamed of having..and I responded just as strongly both in the bedroom and outside it. I made a full scale effort to build a life together. One example was to buy $3000 worth of kayaking gear so we could do this activity together. I also canceled all the plans and events I'd booked to do by myself (such as my Jeep Jamboree) and spending what money I had saved on US...such as activities together, vacations with the family. We really did work as a team to rebuild our marriage..at first. .


Having THIS, these memories here is what is dividing you NOW. You want to hold out HOPE again but you also NEED to be Realistic. Sometimes we hold out hope because we can not face the other side.



Freak On a Leash said:


> For almost two years we seemed fine. But he just couldn't let the past go. He would bring up time and time again all my past indiscretions, rehash all the things that had been wrong. I kept begging him to put it behind us and tried to convince him that some of the craziness that was in his head wasn't true. I think that's when the Beginning of the End was beginning. Maybe it was mid life crisis, depression..I don't know. It's definitely something that lingers to this very day and is like a black haze hanging over our marriage.


Some people are not strong enough within themselves to ovecome these nagging devils on our shoulders to let the past BE the past and move forward. It has become a mindset he can not let go of. Destruction will continue to reign & eat at him till he does something to ACTIVELY change his mindset ! 

Powers Consulting - Changing Your Mindset

After reading your story here , in this rant, I think he needs counseling (among AA also), but would be go?? 




Freak On a Leash said:


> We had started going out to clubs (something he SAID that he's always wanted to do!) and spent weekends kayaking and biking and going to dinner and then suddenly he started complaining that it was all I wanted to do..that he wanted to spend a quiet night at home instead. After 15 years of being prisoners in the house because we had young children and no babysitter the LAST thing I wanted to do as spend Saturday nights at home and at first HE felt the same way. Then he changed so I was supposed to change too!


The disconnect, I feel both parties need to indulge each other, not all one way or all the other way, comprimise to please the other half of the time . I would not settle for less personally, it will eat at you, you will be miserable. I wouldnt expect you to change 100% - only 50% for him -because you love him, it has to go both ways. 




Freak On a Leash said:


> Looking back on this, I think he was becoming depressed. By the time I realized what was happening it was too late. His casual drinking became full blown alcoholism (something that runs in his family, sad to say  ). After considerable effort, I was able to get him to go into rehab and stop drinking once but he went back to drinking a short time after and it was even worse the second time. By the end of last year our life was in shambles, with his destroying half our family business and moving in his father's house and bouncing thousands of dollars in checks.


This is so very heartbreaking.  You have SEEN the shattered lives it leaves in the wake but yet you stay. I can't tell you your husband will ever appreciate all that you do. He is an alcoholic . I know more about the pain of this affliction -just because my Mother married a Severe Alcholoic, she watched him die a slow death due to his liver failing. She has written tear jerking poems against Alcoholism. I could have never walked in her shoes. 

What is most important to you in this life ? Your happiness or someone else's SURVIVAL? I know you want to believe you can change him, make him happy - But he has to be willing , he needs the courage/the will TO CHANGE. Only he can do that for himself. Or nothing will change in this marraige. MY mothers husband never found that. But she stayed anyway. (they did not have kids) 



Freak On a Leash said:


> Have you ever felt the rejection and pain of someone pushing you away when you tried to be affectionate and kiss them, never mind make love to them? If you haven't then you have endured far less than I. For TEN years of my 20 year marriage I would climb into bed with a husband that was FULLY CLOTHED in a sweater and jeans and would turn his back on me when I even tried to cuddle with him. Now, after a brief respite when the man I loved FINALLY acted like he loved me in a passionate, sexual way that I've desired for YEARS it looks as if that it's going back to those dark days. Imagine how that feels?


He dangled the carrot for a time, but now it is tormenting -BECAUSE of those memories. It would have almost been better had he not given you that, it would have been enough to set you on your way a few years back, left this pain. Now you are divided, torn, feeling hopeless yet hanging on to Hope. 




Freak On a Leash said:


> Right now I still look great for my age. I'm in good shape and healthy and energetic but I do see the light at the end of my tunnel. I saw my father die at less than 20 years older than I am now of cancer within 6 months. He was trapped in a nasty, loveless marriage waiting for a time when he could live his life and be happy. He never got that chance.


 Learn from your father's life . And thank God you are in good physical shape, healthy & energetic, this will only help you in life to move on -when you can gather yourself to do so. 




Freak On a Leash said:


> I'm not repeating my father's mistakes. I've given my husband the best years of my life and put up with untold episodes of emotional and verbal abuse. I've abused _myself_ because of the pain I've felt inside and I have the scars on my wrists and legs to prove it. This man never even visited me when I was committed to a mental institution. You know what he did? He consulted a DIVORCE attorney and then bragged about doing this to me afterwards. The day I returned home almost a month later he gave me a look like I was scum and I went in the pouring rain to a hotel room and contemplated slitting my wrists. It was the closest I'd ever come to suicide and somehow I managed to climb out of that hole, despite his behavior towards me, his verbal and emotional abuse, the lack of affection and sex and ignoring me I managed to rebuild my life and go back to work and become a whole person once again. I managed to then forgive and want to rebuild a life and marriage with him again and to learn to love and trust him as I hadn't done in years..and to what end?


 Had you had good council years ago, good friends /family who stood beside you, you would have left him and rightly so! Or maybe you did but BLIND LOVE stepped in somehhow, too much HOPE. 

Sometimes we think by staying, we are helping, but it can be "enabling" to the abuser also, and even though he is twisted, heartless & an Alcoholic, deep down he might have respected it more IF YOU LEFT HIM. Left alone, in the gutter, loosing the best thing that has ever happened to you (in this case YOU ) -he might have picked himself up and tried to win you back. 

And NEVER let that be an EASY task- after much suffering. Make him work for it, climb a mountain if you will, Proving- beyond a shadow of a doubt, his love = actions behind his words. 

Nothing worthwhile in this life comes EASY. Should it ? When this happens, we become LAZY, effortless, we take advantage. Add alcoholism , anger & pure selfishness to the mix. When someone has shattered our Trust, mercilessly abused their roles in our life & affections, it is only RIGHT to take our life in another direction from this treatment, leaving this person as amicably as one can. >>>>> For our own Safety, well being, sanity and Yes, HAPPINESS. And double that for your children also. 

This is not selfishness, this is LIFE GIVING to your own soul, and to their future. 

Like the Parable in the Bible, the one son wants to live with the pigs, he gets tired of it after awhile, so he comes back, and was a changed man. I guess I am leaving the pig to the pigs, let him roll in the mudd for awhile, realize how GOOD things was at home, that sometimes is motivation enough. 

Call me cruel but I am for "tough love". Not Uncondtional love. I don't believe in that concept. I think it destroys many lives. 
Here is a good article at Marraige Builders .. What's Wrong with Unconditional Love (Part 1)



Freak On a Leash said:


> When he got out of the hospital he PROMISED me then things would be different and SIX WEEKS later he was back to drinking and destroyed our business. Why? Because his father broke his hip and he couldn't hack it so he decided to take a wrecking ball to our livelihood, our marriage and my kid's lives.
> 
> And did I divorce him? NO. *I told him I was still his friend*, I let him have full access to our kids and despite his being a total A hole to me for months I was there for him. The morning after we'd had a huge fight where he once again told me about how horrid a person I was he woke up to find that his father had died in his sleep. For two hours he'd laid curled up in a ball sobbing and finally called me at 6am to tell me what happened.


 You told him you would be his FRIEND, that is where it should have remained. No matter how bad someone is to us, when they are down, in their time of NEED, this is a Blessed thing to do- to be there -to a measure. But giving MORE to him, the way he has trampled you, the marraige, your chidlren. It just shouldnt be. The man is not worthy of your love / your faithfulness , from what I gather here from these posts. 



Freak On a Leash said:


> By the time he decided to "get sober because he wouldn't be able to live life again" my daughter wouldn't even stay in the same building with him, He'd blown off my son after telling him he'd pick him up for a weekend visit and I was in almost complete non-contact with him. He'd blown off his friends too. He was utterly alone. But will he admit that he'd done anything wrong? No. He has STILL not shown one iota of regret or remorse. In fact, he told me that he was GLAD that he had done his drinking because it made him realize how "short" life was. Now he tells me how he won't "put up with any of my BS anymore" when I tell him that I want us to be affectionate and sexual? He tells me I'm "selfish" and "stupid" for wanting to make love to him!! :wtf: This is how he tells me NICELY that he needs his SPACE? :slap:


 His own daughter will not be in the same building , he blows off his son , he views your NEEDS & desires nothing but Bullsh** , you are reduced to selfish & stupid , and making love is off the table too! 

Can you tell me Freak on A Leash - what in God's name can you possibly still see in this man? This was the rant, what in the H is the Good ?? 





Freak On a Leash said:


> Ok, maybe he does need time.


 He needs ALOT MORE THAN TIME. He needs counseling , a desire & will to change, a dose of thankfulness for what IS in his life, a mindset overhaul, AA meetings, maybe more. 




Freak On a Leash said:


> but if I say ONE thing he doesn't like or agree with then he takes a verbal and emotional jackhammer to my very soul and psyche. He has told me that "he'd miss me but it's fine if I found someone else" and that "if I divorce him I won't get a penny" and I have never even told him I was looking to find anyone else, or that I wanted to go out and date or divorce him! But he has threatened to divorce me many, many times. At one point he threatened divorce every time we argued. When we were living together he would ALWAYS say "Why don't you just leave" or tell me to get the hell out and several times he would actually go to push me out the door. Why I didn't turn and walk out is beyond my comprehension.


 If you was a friend of someone who had THIS STORY, wrote these things, what would your advice be ? When you answer, take your own advice. See this relationship from anothers eyes, it is only for your well being. 




Freak On a Leash said:


> A lot of my friends think I'm crazy for NOT divorcing him but I love the guy! We have a connection that I've felt ever since I met him at age 17.


 LOVE IS NOT ENOUGH, other connections can be made, healthy bonding connections. If you are one who believes in the Soul Mate concept, I beg to change your mind. 

I used to think along those lines , then caught this program on late one night, it said many who believe this, either leave partners when things are not going well feeling they never found their soul mate , feeling he/she is out in the world waiting for them --Or in your case -staying admists much pain & suffering feeling you can never love again. 

Simply NOT TRUE. Dream a new dream. Choose a new life .


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

magnoliagal said:


> I stand corrected. I'm so very sorry if I misjudged you. Thank you for clearing that up. It's so hard to get the whole story from just one post sometimes.
> 
> Just reading all that you've gone through exhausted me. That's one heck of a relationship you've got there. Wow.


 Hey, no worries! Your reaction was why I sat down and "embellished". I type about 100+ words a minute so it wasn't a big deal for me but I can imagine that it's like a novel to read. 

Unfortunately there is even more as my relationship with my H goes back 30 years. There's a lot of history there and a lot of stuff built up. However IMO what happened in the distant past isn't important, at least to me. 

I'm not blameless in all this..but unlike my H, who likes to heap blame primarily on me and excuse or deny his own actions, I think it's rather 50/50, especially now. My POV is that the slate should be wiped clean and and we start over but I've been having a devil of a time convincing him of it. 

Although he will STATE otherwise whenever we start actually talking he will say things like "You can't erase the past 25 years" and then start listing in excruciating detail why. :slap:

I really do appreciate your compassionate response. I have read some of your own posts and wish you the BEST of luck in your relationship with your H! :smthumbup:

As for my relationship, I think things WILL get better one way or another. Either we will come to a place where we will have the good parts (and we do have good parts, believe it or not!) of our relationship preserved and be able to look past the bad and hopefully end up in a loving marriage or we'll wind up as friends. I don't see us being bitter enemies unless something unforeseen happens. It would've happened already with all the crap we've been through and we are still together. Even as it stands now things are MUCH better. 

I mean, how bad could it be?...We're going kayaking tomorrow together..as friends. At the end of the day I plan on going home to my own place and sleeping in my own bed, which is a BIG departure from what I've been doing lately. I'm stopping by the local sex shop tonight to pick up his "replacement" :rofl:

That might eventually jolt him into thinking that perhaps he might be missing something sexual/romantic, that being "just friends" isn't really what he wants. Or maybe it is. :scratchhead: The ball is in his court now. I guess you could call it a "modified" 180. I see no reason for no contact. I pretty much have a handle on how to proceed now and I'll be following the majority of the points of the 180 as I did before. If anything, our little "talk" last Sunday did clarify things for me..It's why I brought it up in the first place. So now I can proceed with the appropriate knowledge. 

I always say that "Knowledge is Power".


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

Simply Amorous, 

You've taken a lot of time to address my various points and I want to do the same with yours. I need to clarify some things and I agree wholeheartedly with others. 

I have to go out to run some errands for awhile but I'll be back.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

His replacement? Thats funny. You are probably right about it will be okay regardless. You guys have so much history together that it's unlikely to end anytime soon. 30 years is a long time.

Good luck tomorrow!


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

magnoliagal said:


> His replacement? Thats funny. You are probably right about it will be okay regardless. You guys have so much history together that it's unlikely to end anytime soon. 30 years is a long time.
> 
> Good luck tomorrow!


 "Replacement" means sex toys. Specifically, vibrator.  One can only do what one can do! I have NO intention of replacing my H anytime soon with another man. Not to have an affair, or date or anything. Not now. 

Yes, we are separated but I consider myself to be married. Until, and ONLY until I know what our ultimate resolution will be and it's RESOLVED completely would I even consider moving on and I'll have to be completely over him and comfortable within myself. I believe firmly in that it's not fair to either myself or another person to engage in another relationship until things are "right".

I'm not into having one night stands and I'd never have an affair. It's just the way I am. What other people do or have done is their business. I conduct myself by own code. I also have kids and feel strongly that I need to present the proper image and example for them. 

I did the rebound thing before..when I started dating my H almost 25 years ago. Not long before I was dating someone else and didn't wait long enough after we broke up and started dating my long time best friend at the time: That "Friend" was the man who is now my husband. BIG mistake and it's one reason we've gone through a lot of what we have. I won't repeat THAT mistake again. No rebound relationships!

But heck, I'm horny and have needs and am NOT begging my H for sex anymore. My MO now is to give him the space he asked for and be friends so that means sexually I'm "striking" out on my own. Once I had my own hobbies and friends apart from him and now..I guess..I'll have my vibrator. Whatever works, eh? 

I'm considering a blow up doll... What do you think? :rofl:


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Freak On a Leash said:


> I'm considering a blow up doll... What do you think? :rofl:


Here you go ! Construction Man Love Doll


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

I knew what you meant. I just thought it was funny the way you put it.

I called mine BOB (battery operated boyfriend). No I didn't get one I've just threatened it a few time with my seems to need less sex than me husband.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

magnoliagal said:


> I knew what you meant. I just thought it was funny the way you put it.
> 
> I called mine BOB (battery operated boyfriend). No I didn't get one I've just threatened it a few time with my seems to need less sex than me husband.


:lol: :rofl: I like that.."Bob". I'll have to remember that. 

Well.."replacement" seems appropriate. The H won't do the sex thing so he gets replaced by the vibrator and some KY Jelly. It's that simple. I got it all right here, with two AAA batteries. I like how they put it in a plain black bag.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Having THIS, these memories here is what is dividing you NOW. You want to hold out HOPE again but you also NEED to be Realistic. Sometimes we hold out hope because we can not face the other side.


Ok, I see what you mean here. I am indeed haunted by the very recent memories of what was. Not even a year ago I was having a blast with my husband and yes, I want that back. But yes, I need to be realistic. I think that is slowly setting in. I sometimes feel like I'm mourning him as if he's died because to be honest, a big part of him has gone away. 

Plus I think in many ways I just liked him when he was drunk. Before he became an alcoholic and a jerk that is. We had a good time when went drinking. We went to bars and saw concerts and did great things and had great sex. You bet I miss that and I'm seeing a return to a really, really bad time in our marriage and it pretty much stinks. 

But realism is starting to set in. That I know. 



> Some people are not strong enough within themselves to overcome these nagging devils on our shoulders to let the past BE the past and move forward. It has become a mindset he can not let go of. Destruction will continue to reign & eat at him till he does something to ACTIVELY change his mindset !


Agreed. In this way we are very different. I cling to hope but like to put the past behind me. I don't hold grudges in the same way he does. I remember and I hurt but I'm willing to say "No worries" and move on. For me, there's no point in pulling scabs off old wounds. For my husband it's an activity that he's very good at. It's pretty scary to see the total recall that he will have when he brings up events of the past. He will sit and describe everything that was said and done in excruciating detail..and this is a man who can't tell you the date of his birthday or our anniversary!

Unlike him, I recall dates very well. I can tell you the exact date and year we met but I don't tend to care about recalling the details of our various encounters. It's over, it's done and there's nothing that can be changed. One way I've survived is to put the past behind and leave it there and move ahead. Threads like this where I'm digging up the past and regurgitating it aren't something I particularly like doing. 



> After reading your story here , in this rant, I think he needs counseling (among AA also), but would be go??


Easy answer. NO. He wont do counseling of any sort, either individually or together. He tends to describe the therapy I've done as "useless". He was on medication for a time and I don't think he's doing that. He won't see a doctor about his low sex drive. He will NEVER go to something like AA. To be honest I tried Al-anon and wasn't impressed. I just don't like the religious overtones and he is the same way. 




> The disconnect, I feel both parties need to indulge each other, not all one way or all the other way, compromise to please the other half of the time . I would not settle for less personally, it will eat at you, you will be miserable. I wouldnt expect you to change 100% - only 50% for him -because you love him, it has to go both ways.


I have tried many times to convince him to compromise on any number of things. With him, it's his way or no way. For example, when it came to my being on the computer after work in the evenings during the week. He decided he didn't like that, that I was putting my game before him. He wanted me to sit downstairs and watch TV with him. I said "Maybe I could play my game twice a week or you could play it with me and then we could watch TV the other days?". IMO that was a good compromise. Nope, he wouldn't hear of it. 

I think he likes bearing the proverbial cross and he knows I'm too stubborn to give in completely to him. It's something we both share...we are stubborn as all hell. So when I won't give in then he has that cross he can carry around and play martyr with. "You wouldn't give up your game for me. You love your computer more than me, blah blah blah." I recall things like that now and am GLAD we don't live together. 

I HATE being nagged...I mean REALLY hate it. He nagged me a lot. 



> This is so very heartbreaking.  You have SEEN the shattered lives it leaves in the wake but yet you stay.


Stay?  :scratchhead: I haven't stayed. I left. Actually I told HIM to leave and then I left and got my own place. Didn't even tell him what I was doing until after I signed the lease on my new apartment. And I have no intention of going back. 

He asked me if I would "have him move in to the apartment" even without rehab and his being sober. I told him "NO WAY". When his father died I told him not to sell his father's house because he would need it. I think he caught the message because he no longer talks of moving in with us whereas back in December he once talked about moving in when Spring comes. I think he saw the look on my face and the tone of my voice..and realized that wasn't happening. 

So we aren't together. If you mean stay in the relationship, well...It's not so easy to walk away for a number of reasons. But I didn't stay and subject myself to any more abuse. I cut him off from the business, my finances and if he hadn't moved in with his father he would've been left in the old house alone. I was intending to get the heck out when he left. 

So in the end I did leave and am glad I did so. Eventually I did the 180 and just stopped talking to him and that DID bring him around. He's sober now and in his own way, he's trying to make amends. I think he's a work in progress and deserves his chance, if only because he gave me many chances. More on that in a bit..



> I can't tell you your husband will ever appreciate all that you do. He is an alcoholic .


Yep, sober right now or not, he is an alcoholic. First time he went to rehab I wouldn't admit and neither would he. But now neither of us make that mistake. I don't know if he will appreciate what I do because he didn't tend to appreciate a lot of what I did even before he drank. This is a guy with a sh*tload of pride and arrogance and he isn't one to acknowledge others easily. 

He has given me credit for the things I do AT THE TIME I DO THEM. For example, when he came out of the hospital after rehab he went on and on about how I saved his life. Then he told me how great it was that I helped him after his father died.

But NOW when we have an argument and I bring this stuff up and other things as well he'll sneer and play it down. Drives me utterly crazy and gets me VERY angry. He's like that. He'll admit he was wrong about something and then as time passes he'll change the story and push the blame back on me. He's very masterful at this sort of thing. 



> What is most important to you in this life ? Your happiness or someone else's SURVIVAL? I know you want to believe you can change him, make him happy - But he has to be willing , he needs the courage/the will TO CHANGE. Only he can do that for himself. Or nothing will change in this marriage. MY mothers husband never found that. But she stayed anyway. (they did not have kids)


Well, I have kids and that's a factor. I think that if we didn't have kids I would've walked away from him by now..I readily admit that

For one thing, I'm VERY good at that sort of thing. I walked away from my own parents and sister. My father died and I never saw him before he died (mainly because no one TOLD me he died! ). I haven't talked to my mother and sister in 8 years and didn't call my mother back when she called and left a message and tried to patch things up. I deal with toxic people like that..Out they go! 

I compare my dealing with toxic people to stepping in dog crap. You step in crap and you wipe it off and keep walking..you don't take off your shoe and keep smelling it. Same with people who stink up your life. Just scrape 'em off and keep walking. 

But with my husband it's a bit more complicated. For one, there's the kids and I need him financially for certain things. He has resources that I need, like water and electricity for my work truck and storage space and yes, money. So from a practical point of view I just can't cut him out. 

That said, I'm not trying to save my husband at all. At least not know. At first, when this all blew up I did what a concerned wife who loves her husband would do. I've had my share of problems and it killed me that my husband wasn't there for me. I vowed NOT to be that way to him. I wanted to be the better person so I did what I could to get him treated and support him 

But the second time he was on his own. I cut him loose. I cut him off from my finances and our business. I told him he had to leave and I set about rebuilding our life. He sat on the porch and drank and smoked and at that point if he'd dropped dead it would've been his problem. 

Trust me, I was all about survival..The survival of me and my kids, not him. I could've care less about him. Now that he is sober I care more but if he goes back to drinking it's done. I told him that. "Stay sober or we're done". I don't know if that matters to him or not but I do think he realizes how close he came to losing everything. He's not stupid and I told him just how close he'd come. 

Those who know me know that I'm extremely blunt and to the point. I don't mince words. I don't worry about hurting feelings. I say it as a I see it. Trust me, I haven't pulled any punches with him. 

Plus, I'm acutely aware that only HE can fix himself. If you were to go back and see my earlier posts from this past winter you'd see me stating that over and over again. "Ball is in his court" is something I say a lot. That basically means that it's all on him. 



> He dangled the carrot for a time, but now it is tormenting -BECAUSE of those memories. It would have almost been better had he not given you that, it would have been enough to set you on your way a few years back, left this pain. Now you are divided, torn, feeling hopeless yet hanging on to Hope.


Yep, you are right on here. When we "reconciled" was *this close* to leaving. He knew it and that's why he did what he did and it's the few good years we had that have kept me going and hoping. But I can see that my patience has an end. There are valid reasons for my patience though. I'll explain soon...




> Learn from your father's life . And thank God you are in good physical shape, healthy & energetic, this will only help you in life to move on -when you can gather yourself to do so.


I've actually learned a lot from my father's life and it's the reason I do what I'm doing and why I'm glad I've done what I've done in the past. More on that..




> Had you had good council years ago, good friends /family who stood beside you, you would have left him and rightly so! Or maybe you did but BLIND LOVE stepped in somehhow, too much HOPE.


I never had good family. I grew up in a VERY dysfunctional family with highly critical parents who showed me little or no affection or concern for my well being. They tore into me on a regular basis. 

I was a "different" kid and I suffered greatly because of it, both at the hands of my parents and my peers. I had few friends growing up and don't have many now. In fact, my husband was one of my best friends for years and it's one reason I was drawn into dating and then marrying him. 

Had I grown up nowadays I probably would've been diagnosed with ADHD and medicated. How do I know this? My own son has been diagnosed and is being treated and he reminds me of myself. But the difference is he's doing great and has tons of self esteem because both me and my H have shown him nothing but acceptance and love throughout his life. It's pretty amazing to see the contrast between my son and myself. 

I use my parent's child rearing as an example of how NOT to raise my own kids and it was their negative and toxic influences on my kids that was a big reason for breaking off with them. 

And yes, I hold my husband partially responsible for the stagnancy of my recovery after being hospitalized. I was bitter and angry about it for years and if he'd been compassionate and loving we might have a different marriage today. In fact, I'd put money on it. 

Getting him to admit this was akin to pulling every tooth out of his mouth. He will STILL defend his actions, bringing up all the things I did beforehand, despite that the doctor at the hospital told him it was due to my being mentally ill. 

I used to ask my H if he would've held it against me if I'd had a physical ailment that stopped me from walking or if I'd been a diabetic would he have treated me the same way? He seems to have a hard time figuring out just what mental illness is. I have been VERY empathetic to his situation because of what i went though but he doesn't seem to be able to be that way...even now. 



> Sometimes we think by staying, we are helping, but it can be "enabling" to the abuser also, and even though he is twisted, heartless & an Alcoholic, deep down he might have respected it more IF YOU LEFT HIM. Left alone, in the gutter, loosing the best thing that has ever happened to you (in this case YOU ) -he might have picked himself up and tried to win you back.
> 
> And NEVER let that be an EASY task- after much suffering. Make him work for it, climb a mountain if you will, Proving- beyond a shadow of a doubt, his love = actions behind his words.


True, but as I stated before..I'm not blameless. My mental illness and personality quirks and problems put him through as much Hell at one time. What's ironic is that we've now switched places. I pulled the same crap he did in many ways years ago and now I'm filling the role he filled when I did the bad things and was the sick one. Even our mutual friends say "Wow, it's like you two traded places." It's eerie at just how true that is. It's was this thought that was in my mind when I went to visit him in the hospital during his rehab..the very same hospital that I was in 10 years earlier almost to the day...that 10 years later I'd stepped into some strange looking glass and we now occupied opposite sides in the same sphere. 

25 years ago I dated and married him because I was a needy, insecure person with low self esteem and I was on the rebound. I did things that LOOKED bad and I've lied to him many times about stupid things I did. A few examples:

My lying about dating and having sex with a mutual friend of ours before we started dating. I was afraid of how he'd take it and I was right..He didn't take it well. But I lied about it and it was wrong to do so. It killed his trust in me and made me out to be deceptive and dishonest. 

I did stupid things like visit my first boyfriend by myself out in Colorado in 1992 (My H did willingly let me go). I wanted to see the Rockies and the West and staying with my old boyfriend (who was friends at the time with me and my H) was appealing in that it was free lodging and I would be staying with someone I knew. While I was there we went camping and shared a tent. I knew that would look bad so I lied to my H and told him that my Ex's brother was with us. He found out I lied and even now won't believe me when I tell him that NOTHING happened in that tent event though I have sworn up and down that nothing happened and offered to take a lie detector test. 

So I did stupid things. And it didn't end there. 

I wasn't a good parent when my kids were young. I just couldn't deal with the ball and chain of having young kids. I loved my kids but I hated having to devote my life only to them and nothing else. I HATED losing my freedom and being tied down. I wanted to keep doing my hobbies and pursue my dreams and passions. 

I was into showing my car and then racing it and spent thousands of dollars pursuing my hobbies and then spent more traveling all around the country while my H almost single handedly stayed home and raised our kids. It wasn't until they were older and I was in therapy and on meds that I was able to deal with my children and realize what being a parent was all about. Fortunately I did turn myself around and have a great relationship with my kids but I came *this close* to blowing that. 

As I stated, I spent tons of money on my cars, first my racing Mustang, then my touring Miata and then my Jeep. We aren't rich people. My husband allowed me to stay home with the kids for several years and then he allowed me to pursue my dreams and hobbies and worked himself to the point of exhaustion. I think his being overworked was a big contributing factor to his beginning to drink. He was self medicating because he was tired, stressed out and depressed. As recently as last year i was taking a week off a month and working 4 days/week and he was working 10 hours a day, 5 days/week. I had a savings account and he had no money to call his own. In the end my personal savings became a good thing because it saved us when he went ballistic but unfortunately it contributed to his anger and resentment about our marriage. 

Now I look back on all this and am profoundly ashamed of my actions and attitude. I did not behave in a way that was supportive and loving to my husband. If anything, I took advantage of his kindness and hard work. I readily admit that and share my portion of the blame for what is happening now as a result. 

Now I'M the one working and supporting the family and HE is staying home living the good life and I KNOW that he feels a certain sense of satisfaction. It pisses me off that he hasn't worked for months and probably won't work again for several more months. It kills me that he will be out and about enjoying the nice weather while I am stuck at work...but there is a big part of me that also feels that he is entitled as well. I also hope that eventually he'll feel we are "even" and we can move past all this crap. Is it a ridiculous expectation? Perhaps but I do feel it's something that is necessary to appease my sense of guilt and remorse and lessen his anger and resentment. 

I guess it's as simple as the man working himself to a nervous breakdown and now he's getting a break and I feel he deserves it, even if I don't like it. 

So there are reasons why I "stay". Some of those reasons are simply that I do love him and have always loved him. I don't "take" to many people. I'm not an easy person to deal with and I don't think many could live with me or put up with me. I'm more convinced now that I NEVER should've been married. There is indeed a selfish streak in me. I LOVE being single right now and I don't think I will be living with my husband again. I see us continuing on as we are now..in two separate houses but married. Why? Well..because I like it. He seems to like it too. 

I've never been one to worry about how things "should" be. I worry about how they are "are". Many say we "should" be living together if we are married and it's bizarre that we aren't. But that doesn't work for us. But we want to be together in other ways. Two separate household is working for us, even if we are married. We share a lot of other things, including our kids. So why not do what works? 

Plus we like being with each other. There are few people I can converse with as well as with him. We share a lot of the same outlooks and values. The day we met, in July, 1980, I was 17 and he was 19. We clicked immediately. I think we fell in love then. He says we did all the time. "I loved you from the first day we met." 

But that doesn't translate into him treating me right all the time. The way I was, I don't think I could've treated ANYONE right. I look back and see that a lot went wrong after we returned home from the Navy. He reconnected with his childhood friends and I felt abandoned. Very common in marriages. He told me "I'm not your social director, get a life."

...and I did. THAT is when I got into the cars, the road trips and later on the kayaking. I did it ALL without him. We lived separate lives for years. I did my thing and he did his. When the kids were born we'd divide the weekends up. I'd take one day as my own to do as I pleased and he'd have the others. We literally lived as if we were divorced under the same roof. 

Rather ironic because now we are married under two roofs.  Apart we are more "together" now then we were for the first 15 years of our marriage. Then we had the time when we reconciled and did everything together and now we are striking a balance between the two. It's actually working pretty well, except for the whole sex thing. THAT is now the fly in the ointment and the reason I STARTED this thread...it's all about the affection and sex. I'm VERY sensitive to this sort of rejection because I was so rejected as a child and because HE rejected me sexually out of resentment and anger over how I acted. 

One problem is that while my H says he never wanted a conventional wife in many ways he does. I'll NEVER be Suzy Homemaker. He loves puttering around his house now. He LIKES being a homeowner and the idea horrifies me. I like living in my apartment and filling my time off with activities and I have plans to travel and do exciting things once the kids leave..and I don't regret the things I did all those years. I feel badly about the effect it had on my marriage and husband but I'm glad I did it all. And I feel a profound sense of appreciation to him for allowing me to do some incredible things..so I think THAT is one reason I "stay" with him and want the marriage to work. 



> Call me cruel but I am for "tough love". Not Uncondtional love. I don't believe in that concept.


I agree. I'm with you 100%. I don't give unconditional love. Anyone who has acted as I have over the years is NOT into rolling over and being walked on. It's not what I'm about. 



> You told him you would be his FRIEND, that is where it should have remained.


:iagree: I agree. I'm an impatient person by nature. After my success as a result of pulling back and utilizing the 180, when he became sober and begged me to give him another chance, I rushed back into the relationship and assumed we could take up where we left off before the walls came crashing down. I was wrong. Like any general who is in a war and has lost a series of battles it's time to retreat, regroup and redo my strategy. That's where I am now. 




> No matter how bad someone is to us, when they are down, in their time of NEED, this is a Blessed thing to do- to be there -to a measure. But giving MORE to him, the way he has trampled you, the marriage, your children. It just shouldn't be. The man is not worthy of your love / your faithfulness , from what I gather here from these posts.


Considering that I've sinned just as much as he has in the past I think he does deserve the chance to get his act together and rebuild his life and our marriage. He gave me that chance despite all the crap I pulled. I have an excuse. I was mentally ill. I came from a bad childhood and dysfunctional family. My basic personality isn't suited to the type of commitment that marriage and parenthood demanded. I didn't treat him all that well in many ways. He would've been right to have tossed me. In many ways he treated me like crap and I think I've done better by him in many ways now that HE is the one with the problem. I feel a certain pride in that. I've proven myself, if not to him, then to myself. In some ways that's more important. And I've set a good example to my children. 

I've acted in a moral, compassionate manner and IMO that's a good thing. I think he deserved to be treated in this way. It's not about him, it's about me. 

IMO the playing field is even and hopefully he'll figure it out and we can move on. If not, then I will move on without him. I can do that. I'm MUCH stronger now than I was before. In many ways this has been a GOOD experience for me. I'm proud of what I've accomplished and how I've acted. 



> Can you tell me Freak on A Leash - what in God's name can you possibly still see in this man? This was the rant, what in the H is the Good ??


He is human and the result of being human is that he's not perfect. But he's good in many ways. He's worked hard to support our family until recently. He's been a great father and his heart is usually in the right place when he can put aside his pride, arrogance and show compassion. 

Plus, he put up with a lot of my crap for years. I owe him this chance. If he blows it, then we go our separate ways. There IS an end to my patience and an end to this. I will not be your mother or my father. Before he went sober I had made up my mind to give him 6 months and then file for divorce if he wasn't sober by then. Well, he is sober now. I still intend to give him that time and things ARE better. I'm hoping they will GET better but I'm not counting on it. 

I'm not moving back in with him. Many would in the same circumstances. Not me. I can easily see me NEVER moving back in with him because I VASTLY prefer my life now. 

When we separated I thought to myself "Maybe this is how it SHOULD be." A huge part of me is convinced that I was NEVER meant to be married. If given the chance to do it again, I wouldn't. There is a thread that asks this and I'm one of the few that says "NO WAY." I mean it too. 

But the idea of us being in a romantic, fun, committed relationship as friends and lovers really appeals to me.We are soul mates in many ways. We share similar values and outlooks on life..Our kids are proof of that. Despite all the crap we've put them through we have two GREAT, well adjusted teenage kids. I think that says something about us as people. Our kids reflect us as a couple in many ways. 

Plus, we have fun together and he does appreciate many aspects about me that no one else would. I really am a "Freak on a Leash". If you met me, you'd know why. 

So, this isn't quite black or white. There are many, many shades of gray. I came here asking advice about a very specific thing..my sex life. Or I should say the lack of it. I was looking for input and to commiserate on that. Instead it's snowballed into something else. I guess it was necessary and it certainly has been therapeutic. 



> He needs ALOT MORE THAN TIME. He needs counseling , a desire & will to change, a dose of thankfulness for what IS in his life, a mindset overhaul, AA meetings, maybe more.


I agree. But he's stubborn, arrogant and thinks he knows everything. Those are big negatives that will work against his recovery and maybe even our relationship. I know that. My eyes are wide open on this. 

He got sober on his own. I guess he figures he can recover on his own. I don't know. I have my doubts and it's the MAIN reason I don't see us ever living together again. I will not be subjected to the same crap I dealt with before when I was living with him. I don't want to be bossed or controlled or nagged and he was doing just that. He will say the same thing about me. What living apart does is give us the space we need and it keeps the proverbial pot from boiling over. 

Now, when we have a fight or disagreement I leave and go home. Believe me, it makes a HUGE difference. If we were still living together we would've torn each other apart all this past week. Instead we didn't call each other and then I texted him and asked if he wanted to go kayaking. He said "Great idea" and so we are doing just that. Now I have to deal with the whole sex/intimacy thing and I have laid down the groundwork to do just that. One solution is sitting in a plain black plastic bag on my dresser. 




> If you was a friend of someone who had THIS STORY, wrote these things, what would your advice be ? When you answer, take your own advice. See this relationship from anothers eyes, it is only for your well being.


I can answer this honestly. I would post that you are in a good place now because you ARE separated. THAT is a good thing and a HUGE change for the better over what was. I would say that you can't force someone else to change..that the H is going to have to do this on his own but he should be given the time to do so. I would also say to use the 180 as a basis for how you deal with him and apply it as needed. 

I would also say that if nothing changes or if it gets worse than some decisions will have to be made, but with him sober at least give it a chance. But don't let it fester forever. 

It won't last forever. I'm almost an empty nester. In 5 years I will be. Then I'll have a much greater handle on things and can make some real decisions. Right now I'm committed to staying here in this area. My kids are living with me, they are in a good school system and I've made the commitment to raise them and be with them. But after that I'll be looking hard at my life and making some concrete decisions. This isn't just bull crap I'm sprewing...it's the result of some careful thought. I'm in "limbo" now because of my kids but that won't always be the case. 

So why not enjoy what I can while I can? If things get worse then I pull back even more. If they get better, then it was worth the effort. Win-win. :smthumbup: 




> Dream a new dream. Choose a new life .


I plan to do just that. I have plans with or without my H. I'm saving money so I can do cool stuff in the future. I'm going to buy a motorcycle at some point. I'm going to travel again. I've joined several meeting groups and even when things have been horrible this past winter I've managed to do some fun things. I've skied. I bought new snowshoes. I've hiked and I've met some fun people. I saw Korn and Disturbed in concert and I have lots of plans to do things this summer. Kayaking, camping, the Warp Tour. I've signed up for a white water rafting course. Some I'll do with my H if he wants but much I'm doing on my own. 

Dreaming and living is what I'm all about.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

You sound like a WILD woman Freak on a Leash, I get the mental picture that your username DOES fit you! Ok, now I can see WHY you stay, it makes ALOT more sense to me. You understand and acknowlege the hell you put HIM through in your younger years, and here NOW, you have literally changed places with each other. 

Since you have been given many chances / been bestowed MUCH "mercy", Now you *give* it. It is healing somehow to you, you are proud of how are are handing being on this end, learning & growing from this, at this point, you feel compelled to remain, even if separated by homes. 

I think that is beautiful really. I give you much credit for that. I think I would feel the same under these circumstances, and you realizing you just don't "fit" with most people. YOu dont make light of your past or shove it under the rug. Love your openness and Humility -even if you are a wild woman! 


I tell people to go with "Peace" in all things, as much as possible. Sometimes in the chaos this is hard to find, but in my own life, this has guided me in those BIG decisions. If you feel THIS , being there for him is truly the RIGHT path, who I am to say it is wrong. People CAN change, wake up, be awakened. Some of us have more love & mercy than others, maybe you are meant to follow this path -for now.  


I once volunteered for a Hotline for people to call in thier problems, I learned in the training that most people just need a listening ear, to be heard, that generally they can "work out" their own issues -they do not even want advice many times, but just to be acknowledged/heard/understood. 

I think you pouring all of this out -has helped you to get even a closer handle on WHY you feel the way you do- the need to be merciful to him in his time of harship, WHY you have hope -he was always your best friend, no other can understand you like him or Put up with you ! (sometimes we need to be realistic on these things too!).

All in all, your life/situation is very very different than mine-much too fast paced & EXCITING (I am akin to a "Little House on the Prairer" type situation in comparison), but I think you got a handle on it, who you are, what you want and WHEN IS TOO MUCH. At least you are not blinded by this Unconditional Love thing. 

So long as using a Blow up doll in the mean time will work for you! As for me, I would deflate him & find another. BUt I am not YOU. You* know *what you can handle in life. 

I like your merciful spirit in relation to your man. Just never let it come to wanting to Hurt yourself again, know when 'Enough is enough". 

I am not sure how to Wooo him sexually, just alot of barriers there. I usally have a list of ideas on these things but he sounds too closed, not approachable. Very difficult situation. :
I feel for your loss in this area. 




> “The quality of mercy is not strained; It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven Upon the place beneath. It is twice blessed- It blesseth him that gives, and him that takes.”
> ~~William Shakespeare


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

Wow..thanks for all the kind words and understanding! I really appreciate it! 

Yeah, I am pretty wild.  My husband will be the first to agree and it is one of the things he likes about me, which is one reason I appreciate him. He does like a lot of things about me that other men could never deal with and he looks past a lot of things that would drive other men crazy. 

I'm glad you understand why and where I'm coming from with regards to my husband. I think we are kindred spirits in many ways. I often say that we are two sides of the same coin. 

Fact is, the last year has NOT been easy for me but you are right in that in many ways what I've done all this past year has been a form of redemption for me. I've feltl a lot of guilt and sadness over things I'd done in the past but now I can say that I've come a long way in making up for them. The slate is being wiped clean, the playing field is evening out. Even if my husband won't admit this himself it's something that I myself know deep down and I think it's had a very positive effect on me. 

A lot of the anger and bitterness that I once felt within me is gone. I think that in many ways I've become a truly content and happy person. Am I happy and content all the time and about all things? No, but I can honestly say that the most part, I like my life. I've calmed down a lot and think things through a lot more. I have a much better relationship with my children and yes, even my husband. 

Just the way I'm handling the recent situation is MUCH different than how I would've done things in the past. But mostly I feel all this deep inside so I think I am heading towards a better place in the end, whether my H is with me or not. 

Speaking of him, we went kayaking today and had a really great day. He wasn't overly affectionate but he gave me a hug and kiss and told me he loved me and we spent a fun time as friends. I think I have a real handle on how to go about all this. Basically it's about dialing back my expectations. 

At the end of the day I asked him what he was going to do and he said "Well, I guess we'll hang out and then go to bed". He assumed I'd be staying over at his house. I said "Oh, I'm going home to the apartment, I've got some things to do there tomorrow morning." He seemed surprised by it but was understanding. 

In the past I would've said something snide or nasty along the lines of "Why should I bother to sleep with you if you won't have sex with me?" and then we would've had a big fight. Now I just said it very neutral and friendly and we made plans for him to come pick up my son tomorrow at my apartment and we are going to do dinner. He also mentioned that he and my son would like to take me out for Mother's Day. 

So I consider this all a good thing. I've come to the conclusion that the sex is just going to have to wait. He obviously needs time and I need to be patient. The way I acted today was just perfect. If he was affectionate, I responded in kind but I didn't initiate or push myself on him and I wasn't hostile and angry at all...Quite the opposite. 

I call it a "modified 180". I guess it's more of a "90" in that I'm pulling away in some ways but in others I'm not. I don't see the point being drastic with him. I think it's giving him space and being patient that may turn things around. It's going to be a work in progress. In the meantime, when I get the "urge to merge" I have ways to make myself happy..and then there's the cold shower.  

I feel pretty confident in that if I act in a friendly, warm and congenial manner and be someone whom he wants to be with and give him his space and comfort zone with regards to sex he will come around. I don't know if he'll be that wild and crazy guy I loved having. I think the alcohol had a LOT to do with that. He's normally a quiet and reserved person and I just don't know if he's capable of acting like that while sober so I'm going to have to accept that. There has to be a middle ground someplace. 

Writing all this down HAS helped me A LOT. It's almost like a personal diary. Very therapeutic.  I appreciate your input and support.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Freak On a Leash said:


> I think I have a real handle on how to go about all this. Basically it's about dialing back my expectations.
> 
> At the end of the day I asked him what he was going to do and he said "Well, I guess we'll hang out and then go to bed". He assumed I'd be staying over at his house. I said "Oh, I'm going home to the apartment, I've got some things to do there tomorrow morning." He seemed surprised by it but was understanding.
> 
> ...


Very nicely done!!! :smthumbup: 

Your new transformation before him will slowly pull him in, the less fighting, the more he will miss you, all good. Loving treatment in face of many challenges can do amazingly things to the heart. 


I can tell you I had some dysfunction & some chips on my shoulder in MY youth because of family issues- I hated my step Mother. My mother left me. I was pretty angry back then. I wasnt' always so nice to my boyfriend/ now husband, I was a handful at times. He never seemed to take it personally amazingly . He put up with me, stood beside me in ALL ways. I will always tell people who know me - I am who I am today because of HIS LOVE for me, his patience, his understanding. If I had never hooked up with him, not sure how my life would have turned out. He was my perfect match in so many ways, he WAS the "pill" I needed. 

So I do understand where you are coming from. He is my "soul mate" too. As you feel yours is -deeply. 

I can't say I have ever been on the receiving end you are in right now, the HARD road of dealing with someone "out of control" -but I know what ever we have walked ourselves (in my case infertility & lacking love at home in my teens), we have a better understanding of those people "IN IT"- their anger, their madness, even their jealousy of others who have it better. 

We are just MORE sympathetic having walked in those shoes ourselves & can see the light of the end of the tunnel --for them. Somebody's gotta have faith -right!! Having somebody BELIEVE in you -can have a tremendous effect on their life & future. 

My hats are off to all who come out of a really dysfunctional past and have "redeemed" themselves- especially by standing by another. 

Good for you Freak - and him ! I bet you are an interesting one to meet in real life !


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Good for you Freak - and him ! I bet you are an interesting one to meet in real life !


My husband would be the first to agree with you!  

I like to think of myself as "Anything but Ordinary"..

*Sometimes I get so weird
I even freak myself out
I laugh myself to sleep
It's my lullaby
Sometimes I drive so fast
Just to feel the danger
I wanna scream
It makes me feel alive

Is it enough to love?
Is it enough to breathe?
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
Is it enough to die?
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be anything but ordinary please

To walk within the lines
Would make my life so boring
I want to know that I
Have been to the extreme
So knock me off my feet
Come on now give it to me
Anything to make me feel alive

Is it enough to love?
Is it enough to breathe?
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
Is it enough to die?
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be anything but ordinary please
I'd rather be anything but ordinary please.*


It's a song by Avril Lavigne. Not quite my kind of music but a few of her older songs are cool and this is one of them. 

I don't know what's going to happen with him and I. But we will always be connected in some way. Our kids ensure that. But I think we'll come to terms. Fortunately I'm in position of inner strength that allows me to deal with him MUCH better than I have previously. I look around this apartment and feel a pride and confidence that I didn't before. "I did this". It's not just a building with two bedrooms, a kitchen, living room and bathroom..it's a symbol of where I'm at." Despite all the crap that's happened to me in the past year with him, in the end I think it's turned out better. That's what my daughter often says.."Yeah it was bad but we're in a better place". 

You and I seem to have a similar situation with a bad past spilling over into our adulthood. I've had to work hard to get past my childhood demons. One way I've done this is to try and raise my own kids in a way that my parents didn't for me. To give of myself to them and try make their lives good has helped boost MY self esteem and confidence in many ways. It's not about money or material possessions..but about love, acceptance and emotional support. I think I'm providing that for them. These were things my parents never did for me. 

My kids have done a lot for me too! My kids have been incredibly supportive of me and have shown me love and patience. I haven't been the easiest to deal with and I'm not the easiest to live with, but they put up with me. Just before my 13 year old son turned to me and said "I love you Mom". Just out of the blue. How many mothers can say that about their 13 year old son? It's stuff like that which reminds me how good my life really is. 

My children are my legacy and my hope..and in many ways my redemption. On the day before Mother's Day I can say nothing better.


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## HelloooNurse (Apr 12, 2010)

I'm going to be boring and just quote this from about.com.

"Chronic alcohol abuse, or alcoholism, inevitably has a devastating effect on sexuality, including:

* Erectile disorders and dysfunction in men
* Loss of sexual desire, significant decrease in sexual arousal for men and women
* Difficulty experiencing orgasm for men and women 

What is unknown is the point at which these sexual effects are irreversible. There has been some research with long term alcoholic men that has suggested some men are able to regain erectile functioning after a period of time without alcohol. But how much time is needed, and what kinds of gains can be made are uncertain. "


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

#2 seems to fit my husband. He has no problem getting an erection. He doesn't seem to be maintaining as long but I think it might be the loss of desire. Having an orgasm hasn't been a problem either. "Loss of sexual desire" pretty much is it. 

When he was drinking all of the above were true in the last weeks before he stopped. I'd say from when his father passed away (beginning of January) to the mid March, when he stopped drinking. 

Before his father got out of the hospital in late December we had great sex, even though he was drinking. We had great sex all last year and he was drinking since June. 

When I say "drinking" I mean in a binging sort of way, not just a social way. He's always been a social drinker. 

Drinking affects my ability to orgasm as well. I can relate here. If I'm drunk it takes me forever to have an orgasm. It just "dulls" things. But I do have the desire. He used to "get it up and keep it up" and have quite the desire even when quite drunk. He was a lot of fun too! 

He has not been drinking now almost for two months. His sex drive has just dried up. Saw him this weekend and was careful not to make any demands or push myself on him. Basically I was friendly, cordial, and I returned his affection. It all went very well as far as we didn't have any conflict and he seemed very comfortable with me.

He would kiss me hello, hug me but not grab me or show any of the passion I really love. He did ask me to stay over Saturday night. We went out to dinner and saw a band had no problem being in a club and not drinking. I was nervous about that but he did fine. So that was good. 

He asked me if I wanted to come back to the house. That piqued my interest. We got naked together in bed, he caressed me a bit and we fell asleep. I didn't "touch" him at all. I just cuddled. He seems to just want to cuddle and be affectionate. I did nothing more than what he did to me. That's pretty much how I'm going to play it. I'm hoping that with lack of pressure, more time and patience he'll get a return of passion and a sex drive. 

If not..well..I guess I'll have to address that. But I think he's going to need a lot more than 2 months. One thing I won't do is bother him about it.


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## HelloooNurse (Apr 12, 2010)

Oh I saw something else on there that might be relevent - its the "dry drunk" thing. I'll just quote it again cuz I'm lazy (but also because about.com seems to describe it really well)  You might already know about it but what the hell, lol. You said your hubby has been sober for 2 months so I thought this thing would definitely apply to your situation.

"Unfortunately when many former drinkers go through the grieving process over the loss of their old friend, the bottle, some never get past the anger stage.

It is a very real loss. The drink has been their friend for many years and one they could count on. When the whole world turned against them, the bottle never let them down. It was always there ready for the good times, the celebrations, the parties, as well as the sad, mad, and lonely times, too.

Finally their old friend let them down... they got in trouble with the law, lost a job or career, almost lost their family, or the doctors told them they had to stop drinking... whatever the reason, the circumstances of their life brought them to the point where they made a decision to say "so long" to the bottle.

Whether they realized it or not, they began the stages of grieving -- denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance -- the same stages most people go through when they have a great loss in their lives or have been told they have a terminal illness."

There's more there if you wanna read it (Dry Drunk - Dry Drunk Syndrome). I gotta say this though: props to you for hanging in there! You are one strong woman!


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

Interesting. Right now my H is pretty obsessed with his newest toy, his new boat up at Lake George. This is a man who couldn't STAND to spend more than an hour in the car and he's making weekly 4-5 hour trips each way to spend time on his boat at the lake (helps that he isn't working. ). Maybe that's his new obsession? He doesn't seem all that miserable to me but he has turned into a pretty big A-hole that I don't much like anymore. 

That said, I like having access to his boat and plan to head up and spend time on it myself but _every_ weekend? Well I DO work so that isn't possible but it's not something I want to do either. 

At this point I've cut him loose. He wants to be just friends? Fine. I enjoy his company well enough as a friend so I'm down with that but I'm not "sleeping over" anymore or planning my life around him. I got other ways to keep myself happy and occupied, whether it be sex or hobbies or whatever. 

I'm going to have to fall out of love with him before I can go and date others. I don't know about other people but I can't sleep with someone who isn't emotionally connected to me and right now I'm still emotionally connected to my H so until that ends I guess I'm being "loyal" but I eagerly await the day when I don't give a damn anymore.


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## confused9 (May 14, 2011)

I totally hear you. I've been married for only 5 months, but have been dating and living together for 7 yrs this June. We rarely have sex at all. Maybe once a month or so. I have to beg him to have it at all. When we do, it lasts maybe 10 minutes tops. I understand that it's normal for couples to lose their sex drive after a while, but come on. I'm in my early 30's and very physcially active. I just dont understand. I'm successful, attractived, extremely motivated to give us all that we need in life to make our life easier and he just doesnt seem to want to try. He's all about his own needs in life. We fight a lot so i suppose that's why we dont have sex...but come on men are men. I thought they could have sex no matter what the situation is b/w the two of you. I'm so lonely and confused. I need some advise. I don't want to think about a divorce already but i'm alone all the time and when we are together he doesnt want to give me any quality time romantically or at all. WHat do you suggest? I move out? The only time he seems to actually show me any attention is when i threaten to leave him. Why is that? I can't go on like this forever. ;(


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

You want my advice? You are still young. You don't have kids. You are NEWLYWEDS and should be screwing around like two rabbits in heat and you have sex ONCE a month? :slap: :banghead:

20 years ago my H and I returned home from Virginia where he was stationed in the Navy. We had been married less than a year. He "rediscovered" his old friends and his life became totally about being with them, his hobbies, etc, etc. It was EXACTLY what you are describing in your life. Carbon copy. 

He was "all about his own needs in life". I was angry, resentful and hurt and told him how I felt. His response was "Get your own life, I'm not your social director."

So....I did. I should've left but instead I bought my convertible Mustang GT convertible and found out about car clubs, car shows and then drag racing, road racing and started taking road trips when he was away with his friends and suddenly we were living separate lives..and so it went on for 20 years. Oh, I had a great time. I drove and toured from the Canadian Maritimes to the Florida Keys and out to the Rockies. I raced my car on NASCAR tracks and was featured in several magazines. I partied hardy and had a grand time for years..and now I'm paying the price. Fortunately my kids still love me but I was a pretty stinky mother in their earlier years and an even worse wife. So what happened as a result? I now have an H who pretty much is fixated on getting "back" at me and wants nothing to do with changing and rebuilding our marriage because he feels he's got the right to do the exact same things to me as I did to him. It's a never ending cycle of resentment, anger and entitlement...and it will never end until one of us ends it. 

In the VERY beginning I thought about leaving. I even talked to my parents about leaving him and moving in with them and they told me not be silly and stay with my husband. But had they told me otherwise...I probably would've left. I wish I had. I have two wonderful kids but 20 years of a miserable marriage that I'm STILL trying to recover from. I've pretty much given up on the marriage. Now it's about separating myself emotionally as well as physically..which is exactly what YOU need to do NOW. Not years from now when you are nearing 50 but NOW. 

You need to get OUT ASAP so that you don't live the life that I had. The days turn into weeks, the weeks into months and the months into years and one day you wake up and you're not 30 years old but staring at the mid century mark. What then? What happens when you do have kids and it becomes not about you but THEM? Do you REALLY want to spend the rest of your life who puts his needs before yours 5 months into a marriage. 

It's not going to get better. People DO NOT change. They are what they are and you can only change yourself and how you relate and react to what they do. You can try marriage counseling. IF he agrees to go then you might have a shot but in my case he never would agree. It was always MY problem, not his. When things got so bad that he did try to change it just didn't happen. It ended up worse than ever and just sucked me back into this never ending emotional vortex and the end result was his drinking and the unraveling of our lives together. 

So..to quote that Linkin Park song "In the End"

*One thing I don't know why
It doesn’t even matter how hard you try
Keep that in mind, I designed this rhyme
To explain in due time
All I know
time is a valuable thing
Watch it fly by as the pendulum swings
Watch it count down to the end of the day
The clock ticks life away
It’s so unreal
Didn’t look out below
Watch the time go right out the window
Trying to hold on but didn’t even know
Wasted it all just to
Watch you go

I kept everything inside and even though I tried, it all fell apart
What it meant to me will eventually be a memory of a time when I tried so hard
And got so far
But in the end
It doesn't even matter*

Don't let my life be yours..Get out now while you still can. Living alone is better than feeling lonely living with someone else who doesn't give a damn about you. Pack your bags, go home to your parents or stay with friends but get out if that is what every fibre of your body is telling you. 

It's not giving up, it's giving yourself a new lease on life.


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## Mrs. T (Aug 5, 2011)

Freak On a Leash said:


> :lol: :rofl: I like that.."Bob". I'll have to remember that.
> 
> Well.."replacement" seems appropriate. The H won't do the sex thing so he gets replaced by the vibrator and some KY Jelly. It's that simple. I got it all right here, with two AAA batteries. I like how they put it in a plain black bag.


 
LOL...I call mine "Jack"...


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## Rosie123 (Sep 5, 2011)

What I don't understand in situations like this is why women will put up with men that refuse to communicate. So many problems I've been reading about stem from not talking! Sure men are men, but they aren't ogres. They need to learn to talk, too, and not by making excuses and refusing to concede on some points. Both partners have to put effort into the relationship, even if it means counseling. A straight up refusal to even consider it and insulting the person for the way they are is an utterly selfish act and doesn't belong in a relationship.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Rosie123 said:


> What I don't understand in situations like this is why women will put up with men that refuse to communicate. So many problems I've been reading about stem from not talking! Sure men are men, but they aren't ogres. They need to learn to talk, too, and not by making excuses and refusing to concede on some points. Both partners have to put effort into the relationship, even if it means counseling. A straight up refusal to even consider it and insulting the person for the way they are is an utterly selfish act and doesn't belong in a relationship.


At the risk of derailing you, men AND women both have to put up with partners that won't communicate. Based on reading here, there's roughly as many women as men who won't talk honestly and openly with their partners about their sex lives. My guess is there's plenty of people who would rather have root canal surgery without an anaesthetic that discuss what turns them on or how they can please their partner.


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