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## Jm4499 (20 d ago)

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## Jimi007 (6 mo ago)

So what EXACTLY is your question 🤔 ?

The kiss ? 💋 F$ ck it. It was decades ago , whý lament about it now ? If that was her way of moving on and healing from sexual trauma, so be it. 

As far as your body count comment, I'd say it was normal. My best friend was a dancer ( a knock off of the Chippendales ) He easily bedded over 100 women in the 5 yrs he was employed by the dance troop


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

Yes as above. If your letting the kiss get to, then let it go. So long ago, how can it really matter? You've had the real prize all these years. Also if as she has said it was a way of ridding herself of ill feeling then it worked and she was able to bond with you and be happy with you physically. 
Now if this retroactive jealousy, well dont ask for answers you don't want...so to speak. She did tell you about her history way back when and u had no issue then. 1 partner, or 25. What difference other than the assaults. Good on you for supporting her in dealing with that. When my wife and I met, I was in the military about to get discharged. She was 21 and counting me, I was her 3rd partner. Intercouse 2 times with first partner and 3 times with second partner. I didn't really mention much about my experiences, but she pushed for it...so I told her, to best of my recollection, several hundred. She was perturbed at that for sure. However she didn't judge me and I assured her we were making our own memories and she wasn't being compared to my past. This lady had a reason to be a bit put off for sure at rhe overwhelming number of my partners. I was single and went all over the world and had many wild times.
She doesn't bother over it, never has. You shouldn't let this affect you so. I know, I know...but she should remember everyone. Remember she was using drugs and drinking and memories can be empaired as well. Cut the woman some slack, she loves you, so grab her and share some good loving with her, before you screw it up!


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## Jimi007 (6 mo ago)

TinyTbone said:


> Yes as above. If your letting the kiss get to, then let it go. So long ago, how can it really matter? You've had the real prize all these years. Also if as she has said it was a way of ridding herself of ill feeling then it worked and she was able to bond with you and be happy with you physically.
> Now if this retroactive jealousy, well dont ask for answers you don't want...so to speak. She did tell you about her history way back when and u had no issue then. 1 partner, or 25. What difference other than the assaults. Good on you for supporting her in dealing with that. When my wife and I met, I was in the military about to get discharged. She was 21 and counting me, I was her 3rd partner. Intercouse 2 times with first partner and 3 times with second partner. I didn't really mention much about my experiences, but she pushed for it...so I told her, to best of my recollection, several hundred. She was perturbed at that for sure. However she didn't judge me and I assured her we were making our own memories and she wasn't being compared to my past. This lady had a reason to be a bit put off for sure at rhe overwhelming number of my partners. I was single and went all over the world and had many wild times.
> She doesn't bother over it, never has. You shouldn't let this affect you so. I know, I know...but she should remember everyone. Remember she was using drugs and drinking and memories can be empaired as well. Cut the woman some slack, she loves you, so grab her and share some good loving with her, before you screw it up!


100 %


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## Jm4499 (20 d ago)

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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Continue doing therapy until you feel neutral about her past.

she can’t change her history. Is there a reason you intend to keep holding a grudge for what she can’t change now?

you love her but has she been a good wife?


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

This is a strange one; 15 is hardly what a conservative or prudish person would call a low number of partners, and it seems odd that the number actually being 22 would make a difference. It would seem to indicate a relatively active sex life, which for most would be fine. What makes 15 a number that feels a lot better than 22?

If either a man or woman claims to have not had PIV sex but later issues with intimacy cause some digging and it turns out it wasn't zero after all but somewhere between 3-5 and there's a lot of gas-lighting going on trying to keep things under control for the deceptive partner... sure, that would be a thing. Raising my hand, ok, triggered as charged.

But that's not the case here. 15 or 25, is there really a huge difference? Maybe I can see a difference between claiming "a few" and 15, but once you go beyond sex having a place only in a long term relationship (which keeps the number low simply because the relationships are long term), where is the issue?

OK, it's possible that your wife felt a great amount of shame early on in her sex life, and the odd thing about shame is that it tends to encourage more of the behavior that brings you the shame. She might have had attachment issues and sought out guys for attention and love. And it never worked out, because for the most part, sex doesn't lead to long-term love. But maybe she kept hoping and looking.

Or maybe she just really enjoyed sex. That would be what most guys would think would be the case for a woman with a “number” in that range. And that would, for many guys, be a good sign. Maybe it was for you back then!

But you do bring up some dark clouds in her past. 

Please, consider feeling empathy rather than disdain for her, providing she hasn't been actively gas-lighting and been generally dishonest. Help her get through this, but if she thinks you're judging her past, and she's driven by shame, the end won't be good.


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## Jm4499 (20 d ago)

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## bygone (11 mo ago)

you have to leave past experiences behind

What was it like when you were married?

Does your wife have a history of cheating/was she a good wife?

The answer to this question should be enough for you

Constant repetitions about her past will be distressing in your wife's present condition.

You're putting your current marriage at risk, trying to get yourself somewhere with past experiences.

If your mind games start to affect your wife's life, you're going to put your marriage in a very bad place.


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## Jm4499 (20 d ago)

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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

Jm4499 said:


> Hello everyone looking to get some thoughts from you. I hate long posts so I will bullet this best I can.
> 
> Here we go…
> -I am 52 wife is 48.
> ...


*Is 22 partners a lot in 6 years for someone that was that age in the early to mid 1990s? *
Not in these modern times and I`ve read that women in their 30s have claimed to have a body count in 3 figure numbers.
Quite often those figures do not include one night stands, BJs, HJs and quickies in the back of a car somewhere.
It is being said now that however number of sexual encounters a woman claims to have is to multiply that by 3.
And however number of sexual encounters a man claims to have is to divide that by 3.
Usually wives will tone down their sexual pasts to their husbands before they met.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Jm4499 said:


> I hear you on the 15 to 22 issue. I think it’s a matter of trust and honesty eating at me because the kiss was not told to me when it happened and it was 20 years until she told me. Like she was not honest about her numbers now too.
> However if the ”list” was just a dump of guys she had experiences with without thought as to what she did with them and all were given in a panic to make sure that there was no chance of anymore being added at a later time, the 6 she does not remember having actual sex with (she is adamant that there is no memory/recollection of sex or clothes off during these experiences and all she remembered is making out in bed) then that does have her number closer to what she disclosed to me when we talked about our histories together when we first started together. I guess my question about do people remember that part but forget the sex, as odd as that seems to me that that does/could happen, is a way for me to reconcile that our prior discussion was honest and truthful.


People can dissociate, put parts of their past away and truly come to believe it didn’t happen. Especially when shame is involved. But it really doesn’t sound like your wife has been trying to deceive you.

If, once the truth became apparent, it was clear she was knowingly lying about her past and making you out to be a terrible person for thinking she was capable of lying… that would be gas lighting and an indication of issues that have carried forward and been problematic throughout your marriage. A comfortable feeling about lying to you. But that’s not what I’m picking up here. Note that you’re feeling really insecure, and it’s tough getting a handle on why.


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## Jm4499 (20 d ago)

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## ArthurGPym (Jun 28, 2021)

You have had to endure the fallout of her baggage all these years, she can put on her big girl panties and allow you to be pissed at her until you have had time process her kiss. I don’t care why she did it. It was a ****ty thing to do to her fiancé. She needs to show contrition and understand your anger until it subsides. Hopefully she is acting somewhat remorseful.


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## Jimi007 (6 mo ago)

ArthurGPym said:


> You have had to endure the fallout of her baggage all these years, she can put on her big girl panties and allow you to be pissed at her until you have had time process her kiss. I don’t care why she did it. It was a ****ty thing to do to her fiancé. She needs to show contrition and understand your anger until it subsides. Hopefully she is acting somewhat remorseful.


It was 20 yrs ago...it was just a kiss , and now you know. If you can't let it go the problem is in your head . Don't punish your wife or ruin your marriage over a kiss .


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## lmucamac (4 mo ago)

Not quite sure what your question is. 

As you should know, there is no normal. Ask 100 couples how often they have sex. Your answers will vary extremely, some every day or two, others a few times a year. Also, what she experienced as far as abide and rape, and how much she was suffering during that time, would certainly not be normal. Your 20’s are a time of growth, adventure, and exploration. 

As far as the kiss, YOU ARE OVERREACTING. Im sure it meant nothing. For argument’s sake, what if it did mean something. IT DOSENT MATTER. This all happened in another lifetime.

Your focus needs to be on your current relationship. Forget the past that has no baring on you, other than giving her support. Life is short, focus on now. Live in the present.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Jm4499 said:


> 1- Is 22 partners a lot in 6 years for someone that was that age in the early to mid 1990s?


Well that is a partner change every 3-4 months? For someone actively dating, finding each candidate for potential LTR unsatisfactory. That doesn't sound unreasonable at all.



Jm4499 said:


> 2- Does anyone have an opinion on the thought that 22 short term partners (sex with 2-3 month relationships being maybe 20 times and others being 1-3 times each) is easier on the mind than say 12 partners with 2 long term relationships (12+ months) where the sex would have been 100s of times with each and much more emotionally involved and more physical experiences (ya know).


I guess this is specific to the individual. Guessing you are the one with the LTRs in the mix and your wife has a hard time accepting those. To me the whole thing is kinda irrelevant. I mean you two are married a long time, too bad you are processing stuff from before you married.



Jm4499 said:


> 3- Does the reason for the kiss seem reasonable to the average person.


IMO the "reason" is BS. She kissed him because at a party the other women were egging her on. That was what she was "supposed" to do. I would be very amazed if that is all she did. These female parties can get way raunchier than any male party. Wife and I had no parties before out marriage. I think they are a very bad idea.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ArthurGPym said:


> You have had to endure the fallout of her baggage all these years, she can put on her big girl panties and allow you to be pissed at her until you have had time process her kiss. I don’t care why she did it. It was a ****ty thing to do to her fiancé. She needs to show contrition and understand your anger until it subsides. Hopefully she is acting somewhat remorseful.


It was also a ****ty thing to do to the man who she forced her kiss on and then demeaned him just to make herself feel better. He could have been married or in a committed relationship as well. Isn't that abuse?
As for numbers, to me thats high but apparently it's normal for some.
The lying would be an issue for me as well. You have to decide if it's worth risking a long marriage over.


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## ArthurGPym (Jun 28, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> It was also a ****ty thing to do to the man who she forced her kiss on and then demeaned him just to make herself feel better. He could have been married or in a committed relationship as well. Isn't that abuse?
> As for numbers, to me thats high but apparently it's normal for some.


I don’t disagree. But whether it was twenty years ago or twenty days ago, to OP it might as well as just happened, and he shouldn’t be told to just move on with his life.


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## GoldenR (Jan 6, 2019)

All these responses that the kiss was so long ago, why does it matter, get over it. 

F. That.

If I find out that my wife kissed another man at any time during our relationship, we are divorcing. Idc if I'm 90 and the kiss was over 50 years ago.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

These thoughts, the nagging questions, are seam cutters

Cutting the, sewn together fabric of your marriage, and so on, of society.

I delight in blaming specific planet's, others, Satan.

Mine orbit the Sun, others find theirs in the hot depths of the Earth.

Our life placing is so small, and our minds lack sufficient breadth and depth to look past, these clay laden matters.

Enjoy your chosen wife and life.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

GoldenR said:


> All these responses that the kiss was so long ago, why does it matter, get over it.
> 
> F. That.
> 
> If I find out that my wife kissed another man at any time during our relationship, we are divorcing. Idc if I'm 90 and the kiss was over 50 years ago.


Refreshing! A man of principle! I agree, and as I see it, 20 years ago to whom?

OP, her past is her past - she can't change it and neither can you. With that said, maybe you should focus on the lying instead? Also, the fact that she, herself, readily admits to committing a sexual assault? It seems to me the breaking of your trust should be treated with more concern than anything else.

I once had a long term relationship with a woman who was the victim of rape when she was a child. She had a "very colorful" past, but she was very honest and loyal. We didn't break up due to cheating, so that was never an issue. She did tell me that in her past she offered alot of BJ's as a way of keeping from being victimized by PIV sex. So I guess each victim may have a different response to trauma?

Why are you two in therapy? It could shed some light on what your trying to ask.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I think so much depends how how the last 24 years of your marriage has been. Has she been a problem child during the marriage? Does she have problems getting along with you? Does she have intimacy problems with you and you have a difficult love and sex life in the marriage? Has she had trouble with boundaries or inappropriate behavior for a wife and mother? 

Why are you in therapy now? What kinds of problems lead you to therapy?


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

Jm4499 said:


> I know. But it’s hard for me right now. I do very much appreciate your words.
> BTW the experiences with the guys she doesn’t remember actually having sex with did not involve excess drinking or drugs. They were actually guys she went on dates with and was not over doing any substance or black out wasted.


And so you think she's hiding something just to not hurt you?


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

Jm4499 said:


> She has. And never have I ever thought or caught wind that anything inappropriate has happened until I found out about the bachelorette party kiss. But discovering that 20 years after our wedding has rocked me. Partly I believe because there has never been any issues or signed of issues in our time together. I would have laid down my life in defense that she was ALWAYS true and faithful.


The real issue here is the violation of trust.
In the grand scheme of things, there really is not that much difference between 15 and 22.
It isn't like she said 4, then 4 became 22.
She started with a relatively high number to begin with.
Maybe she thought she was splitting the difference or something, who knows?
Either way, she got around.
If she lied about that, what else has she lied about?
As for the Hen party, it really doesn't matter if it happened to you 20 years ago.
It happened at the point in time that you found out about it.
I have been engaged twice in my life. 
I had one steadfast rule. I never wanted a Bachelor party, and I sure as hell didn't want to be with any woman that wanted a Bachelorette party.
Even the woman that I was in the broken engagement with agreed with me that that type of party either way was disrespectful. Mrs. Tdbo's response on this topic when discussed was that she would never disrespect me like that.
So the alleged "Kiss" that is disclosed 20 years later. If that was all it was, why wasn't is disclosed 20 years previous?
So now, she has inadvertently laid the foundation for doubt on your part. Now you are living it.
If it was truly just a kiss, you might be able to work through that.
However, how can she prove that it was just that, especially since she has proven herself untrustworthy on other items that really were mere details?
I feel for you. You should be upset. Even factoring out the sexual abuse she endured, she has flat out lied to you for years.
She removed any agency that you would have had 20 years ago to make a decision on your relationship.
*The point is that you don't truly know if there has been anything else out of line in your relationship besides the BP kiss.
Because she probably wouldn't tell you if there was.*
I'd say she needs some therapy.
You probably need some as well to get yourself sorted and decide whether or not you want to continue in the marriage, because you don't really know what you have.
You should probably get her a ream of paper and a package of pens and tell her she needs to dump out the past 20 on those pages, warts and all. Tell her she has one opportunity to come clean on everything.
I'd tell her that you reserve the right to utilize any means to get the answers you require if she wants to continue married (think polygraph, but don't say it.)
When you get her document, get yourself a highlighter, and highlight anything that you have questions on, or could become material for a PE later on.
Question her and compare answers with the text she provided. Poly her on anything you find extremely troubling.
Then you make your decision.
If you stay on, some targeted MC might be a positive thing for the both of you.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

A


ArthurGPym said:


> I don’t disagree. But whether it was twenty years ago or twenty days ago, to OP it might as well as just happened, and he shouldn’t be told to just move on with his life.


Yes I agree.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

She has been raped not once, not twice but six times?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Your story sound strangely similar to this other one from a few days ago. Same ages, same partner count similar story about it coming out. Is this you?









Crushed by Wife’s Discovered Sexual Past


I hope you folks out there can give me some clarity and guidance; I don’t have anyone else to talk to about how I feel or how to resolve the issue. To give you some background: I met my wife when I was 24 and she 23; we married after 6 years of being together. We are now in our mid 50s; we are...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com







Flow said:


> I hope you folks out there can give me some clarity and guidance; I don’t have anyone else to talk to about how I feel or how to resolve the issue.
> 
> To give you some background: I met my wife when I was 24 and she 23; we married after 6 years of being together. We are now in our mid 50s; we are still inseparable and I love her to the end of the earth.
> 
> ...


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## Bulfrog1987 (Oct 8, 2021)

My deal is you married her knowing she had 15 partners prior. What seven more? Also, this is a HUGE reason I feel like women lie about their body count because some men obsess over it. Now that granted, I’ve only been with 3 men, I’m 35. I have no desire to sleep around, if I were a guy, a woman having a high body count would probably be a boner killer for me. There for I wouldn’t continue to peruse such a woman. 

But! You married her knowing?? Sooooooo. Let it go, geeze. My late husband held the fact I had a boyfriend before him against me. Well actually, I’d been with late husband, broken things off because we had NO business being together, but during that time I’d gotten a boyfriend. How is that logical and even fair?

I don’t really understand if you have a question or not. Her reasoning for said bachelorette party kiss isn’t really relevant after all this time I don’t feel. By a grip on yourself bro. Don’t let this wreck your confidence. Does your wife still desire you after all this time? If the answer is yes, let the rest go man.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

Jm4499 said:


> I guess my question about do people remember that part but forget the sex, as odd as that seems to me that that does/could happen, is a way for me to reconcile that our prior discussion was honest and truthful.


Yes, it is possible to forget the sex. At least for me.

Someone arranged a blind hookup for me with a woman who was supposed to check out my performance and report back. I could not believe a woman would do a hookup like that so when I took her out we made a detour to a restaurant for conversation to learn whether she was really in on it. The next morning we had a strange conversation I won't forget.

I know we had sex, but cannot remember any of it. I would not even know whether we had sex other than I have a marker that says, "yes". I do remember the restaurant and conversation and that is it.

My wife had much more experience than I, including being picked up. Bits and drivels have come out over the last 45 years as indirect reference where I don't know whether it was her or a friend involved and more recently some full disclosure. On the other hand she knows all my history short of the stroke by stroke version.

I understand the OP's take in that the kiss is an anomaly in an apparently otherwise transparent relationship.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

Also this. If you had sex with another and it was lame as hell, whats to really remember. Sex is usually in the moment of the act. Rarely does one actually remember real details, such as rivulets of sweat dripping their body, or dashing to clean up. The intensity of the emotions during the experience are what most remember. Brother, you gotta let go the mind movies. Box this crap up and put it on shelf and live with her. I got caught up in the what ifs from my wifes past. Connectiong dots that didn't even exist! Stupid mind movies about things that didn't happen. Its mental masturbation. Do it long enough and you mind f#$k yourself. Let it it go! Live, laugh and love together. SHE IS YOUR PRIZE! Has been for so long now. Best wishes.


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## GoldenR (Jan 6, 2019)

sideways said:


> She has been raped not once, not twice but six times?


Yeah....to me, she convinces herself after the fact that that's what it was so that way she didn't cheat.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

GoldenR said:


> Yeah....to me, she convinces herself after the fact that that's what it was so that way she didn't cheat.


Given that OP removed all his posts after I point our this looks like the same story from another thread I wouldn't believe anything he has said in this thread, or the other for that matter.


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## CallingDrLove (9 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Given that OP removed all his posts after I point our this looks like the same story from another thread I wouldn't believe anything he has said in this thread, or the other for that matter.


You mean the one where the guy goes from no sex in 15 years to his wife blowing dildos and filming it in the span of a week?


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

Bulfrog1987 said:


> Also, this is a HUGE reason I feel like women lie about their body count because some men obsess over it.


Eh, I think it has more to do with the woman fearing a man might be scared off by that than obsess over it. If the guy obsessed over something like that and the woman doesn't like it, then the woman can always find someone else. Problem solved.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

I once heard King Brian say he was glad he was not female..

He said he had not the balls for it.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*Due to the fact that the OP deleted the opening post and all his subsequent posts, this thread is now closed to further replies.*


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