# Financial Mismatch Causing Friction



## TwoDogs (Jul 29, 2011)

I’m just posting to get an idea of what is “normal” in relationships because I’m unsure of myself in this area. Sorry if this is long, I’m trying to give an accurate picture.

Background: SO and I have been in a relationship for a little over 3 years; we are in our late forties. We do not live together, nor do we have plans to do so in the foreseeable future. We both work, although he earns about half of what I do. In addition, he has had some periods of unemployment and underemployment in the past, plus overuse of credit (high debt), so he is in a position of just barely keeping his head above water financially. In contrast, I was raised to value avoiding debt, frugal spending, and an emphasis on saving so my financial situation at this stage of life is pretty good. However, my expenses are naturally higher than his – I own my home and he is a renter, so my regular housing costs are triple what his are, plus upkeep and maintenance. He doesn’t own a car (he has never been a licensed driver) and I do, so I have all the expense associated with that as well. Neither of us have children.

Most of our time together is spent at my house. We eat supper together most nights, and I bear most of the cost of that. He will occasionally chip in for groceries. I also drive him back and forth between his place and mine plus drive him to other places that he needs to go; he seldom gives me gas money. We generally trade off on paying when eating out, and we have each paid our own expenses when taking trips.

All along he has made little digs at me for being “cheap” and pinching pennies, which he has said were teasing/joking if I’ve commented in return. I definitely get the sense that there is some resentment toward me because I make and have more money, although he will acknowledge that his situation is the result of choices he has made in the past.

However, the comments have been getting a little more nasty and pointed recently. I happened to mention the interest rate on my line of credit (which I have NEVER used) was really low and not long afterward he mentioned that he wished someone would loan him the money at a lower rate of interest to pay off his credit card. I didn’t bite the hook; there’s a significant amount of money involved here, and I don’t think he’s a good risk for that sort of personal loan. Nor do I think that this sort of financial arrangement is a good idea in a romantic relationship. His brother ended up loaning him the money.

A while later he was facing some really steep dental bills and was venting to me at length about this. Again, I didn’t bite. This time he actually lost his temper and became quite angry at me, accusing me of not “helping” him and not being “supportive” by not offering to help pay his dental costs. I was appalled at his attitude, so then he backpedalled a bit and said that he was only expecting me to make the offer and he would have refused anyway. But I got a creepy feeling in the pit of my stomach that he has a bit too much interest in my money.

More recently, he has been putting pressure on me to get cable for my TV. I don’t watch TV on my own and I think in 30 years of having my own household I’ve had cable for a total of 6 months (they had a deal on, lol) and got rid of it because I wasn’t using it. He wants me to get cable because he sometimes likes to have the TV on at my house, and the antenna reception is really lousy. I just keep telling him it’s a waste of money for me. The latest was a discussion about taking a trip to the UK and I basically shot down the idea because of the cost, knowing that he is still paying his brother for the loan and has the new dentist debt (but I didn’t say specifically that HE couldn’t afford it, just that the trip was too expensive). Then he said, "Well you could treat me..." 

Now he’s kind of nattering at me about this daily, making remarks about such-and-such being “free, unlike cable and trips”, calling me (sarcastically) “indigent”, stuff like that. And it’s ticking me off, particularly considering I figure I already carry more than half of the relationship expenses. Nor do I like being pressured about how I manage my finances.

Am I being too tightfisted? Is there really an expectation that the higher-earning partner carry the other one? Or is this guy trying to take advantage of a free ride?

If you've made it this far, thanks for reading! (I should mention that I may not respond to posts right away, as I will be in and out of here during the day.)


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## lht285 (Aug 25, 2011)

He has issues. You are being sensible not tight fisted. If he wants cable at your house tell him to pay for it (although there are a lot of deeper issues here). 

I can tell you that financial attitudes have been one of the few sticking points in our marriage. My wife was not the best about managing her credit, and I had cosigned a card when we got married. Finally after one too many calls from the bank and a dip in my score due to her card, I went in and paid off the card and got my name off. She has bought me lunch every day for the last couple of years as part of the deal of me paying off the card. After that she actually got her credit up, and now hers was 10 points over mine when it got checked! (we are both over 800). 

You might want to buy him the book "The Millionaire Next Door" as a gift and try and help him on the path to fiscal freedom and stability

I think you need to have a talk with him, and get him to start realizing that you are an ant while he is a grasshopper (Aesop's Fable reference). You feel more comfortable with extra security and that if he wants to continue to grow in this relationship you need to see him become more careful and think about his future. 

If he can not see what he is doing to himself there is no way you can change it for him, he has to want to change.


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## 4sure (Aug 8, 2010)

I would call you a smart woman. Hold onto your money. If you allow him to take advantage he will have you in debt along with himself.
Don't under any circumstance allow him to move in with you.
Any treating should be up to you, not him.


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## TwoDogs (Jul 29, 2011)

Wow, thanks for the replies!

Yep, I thought I was being "sensible" too, but wasn't sure if my view wasn't a bit skewed as a result of my upbringing by a VERY cheap (Scottish, lol) father.

In my SO's defense, much of his early career years were spent trying to make a living in the arts field, which isn't known for enduring or high-paying jobs. (No excuse for the credit card spending, however!)

But he's certainly got a wide streak of financial irresponsibility. For example, he hasn't filed his taxes for a number of years -- he is owed a fair bit of money. I've gently pointed out a few times that he could make a nice dent in his debt if he filed and collected the back refunds but he is balking at doing that. He has also mentioned getting a large amount of money in the past (like getting paid at the end of a contract) and using it to take a trip, so he seems to have the notion that if you have money you spend it on pleasure, not save it.

He has made the ant/grasshopper comparison himself, but then he will turn around and kind of mock me or sneer at my "work ethic" (like that's a bad thing?) -- usually when things aren't working to his benefit.

The other aspect is that he's aware that I come from a fairly wealthy family (and obviously stand to inherit money eventually) so he doesn't think I need to save aggressively for my retirement because I'm going to be "set for life" some day. My belief is that I can't count on anything, investment value could plummet in this financial climate, you never know what could happen, and I need to be responsible for myself and not rely on a future inheritance. My SO is probably already spending my inheritance in his mind. 

No worries, I have NO intention of living with him or merging our finances -- I'm much too sensible for that!


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

There is a pervasive attitude in recent years very similar to your SO. My wife and I went through financial budgeting courses early in our marriage, and we modeled our goals much like we were taught. Three months income as a backup fund. Pay for vehicles with cash as soon as possible, and only buy used. Mortgage less than 20% of my income, not ours. Right or wrong, so many of my friends spend our annual bonuses on splurges, and you only have to look at the government stats to see how few people build healthy retirement portfolios.

I suspect that this will only get worse as the relationship progresses unless you can help him see that it really comes across as a selfish motivation for being in the relationship. Some of it, though, might be little more than just thinking that you have more than you need, but he is still crossing a line. There are some really good websites out there on budgeting and financial responsibility. I wonder if there is a way to help him be willing to learn a little, because I think it would also bring respect to the financial boundaries within your relationship.


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## TwoDogs (Jul 29, 2011)

Eeek. Now there's a new twist.

My SO is insisting that I get cable so he can watch the evening news when he's at my house (which is pretty much every night). He did say that he would pay for it but (see above!) he can't really afford the extra expense, and I foresee difficulty actually getting him to cough up the money every month so I'd end up paying for it eventually.

Local TV went digital and I have no reception, despite having a digital antenna, so I'm unable to watch TV at my house. Suits me fine as I am not a TV watcher. In the past 30 years I've had cable for a grand total of 6 months -- I got rid of it because I wasn't watching it and it was a waste of money.

Right now he is actually furious with me and calling me "intractable" because I told him I won't get cable. Am I being stubborn and selfish, or is he being too controlling?


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

No, you are not stubborn and selfish, he is! Financial security is very important to me, too, and I would not even consider the demands that he is making of you. Financial compatibility is crucial to a relationship, and the lack of it will undermine love. He sounds rather immature, not filing his tax returns, expecting you to pay for TV so he can watch it.

You will regret giving in to his demands. This would be non-negotiable to me.


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## Brian. (Aug 5, 2011)

He sounds like a loser. You should break up with him.

It's ok I mean for a guy to earn less but the guy should atleast act with some grace and dignity and not ask the woman to help him out. That's just embarrasing.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

TwoDogs,
It sounds like you have been fair with him. My W and I are both savers - which has made for a happy marriage. Both of us have had some experience with spenders. 

The truth is that you CANNOT MAKE A SPENDER HAPPY. They always come back for more and instead of being grateful for what you HAVE done, they are angry about the additonal items they want you are refusing. 

But he isn't just a spender, he is a spender with a sense of entitlement. His view is that since you can "afford it", you should do it. And when you don't he gets angry and is mean to you. 

At some point you might want to might want to let him know that if he continues to be aggressive and mean about financial matters you are going to do "less" not "more". 





TwoDogs said:


> Eeek. Now there's a new twist.
> 
> My SO is insisting that I get cable so he can watch the evening news when he's at my house (which is pretty much every night). He did say that he would pay for it but (see above!) he can't really afford the extra expense, and I foresee difficulty actually getting him to cough up the money every month so I'd end up paying for it eventually.
> 
> ...


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## TwoDogs (Jul 29, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> The truth is that you CANNOT MAKE A SPENDER HAPPY. They always come back for more and instead of being grateful for what you HAVE done, they are angry about the additonal items they want you are refusing.


The hair is standing up on the back of my neck just reading this. It's like you've been a fly on the wall for our entire relationship.

You'll love this one. He works from home a short distance from my office, so I got into the habit of stopping by to visit him on my lunch hour and bringing him coffee and a snack. (To the tune of $5 a day, btw) Last year a work friend suggested we go walking at lunch time to get some exercise, and I agreed (I love it, I have so much more energy now) so he only gets his lunch visit if she is busy with something else or it's raining. Ever since, he complains regularly that he doesn't get his visits any more, doesn't eat lunch, etc!

To be honest, I also lost interest in doing it because he doesn't reciprocate with nice little gestures for my benefit. 



MEM11363 said:


> But he isn't just a spender, he is a spender with a sense of entitlement. His view is that since you can "afford it", you should do it.


Yup, that's him to a T. Any time I refuse to spend extra money, his standard response is "But you can afford it" or "You've got lots of money".

He phoned me a little while ago as he is leaving on a work trip, and made reference to our disagreement, telling me to "please be open to negotiation" and "be reasonable".  From the replies on here, it seems like I am being reasonable.


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

Well it seems that "you've got lots of money" because you don't piss it away. The next time he says "you can afford it" respond with " yes, and I would like to keep it that way". From you have posted he sounds like my 11 yr old when I don't give money for the ice cream truck.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

TD,
The way this works in a healthy relationship is that the person with less money - who is being "treated" - goes the extra mile in a non-financial manner. Anyone can say "thank you". But a truly grateful partner will do something that takes effort: cook dinner, do yardwork, fix something in your home. 

As for negotiation - I have a simple view of THAT as well. How about I get to ask you for money whenever I want. And then we just negotiate how MUCH you actually give me. Because THAT is what he wants to be able to do. 

He is asking you for money. He claims that he is not, but in actuality you both know exactly what he is doing. When he asks to do anything you both know he cannot afford he is asking you for money. And that is wrong. Sadly, the only way you can break this pattern is to let him know that if it continues, sad as you will be, you would prefer to stop seeing each other. If he really loves you, that will stop him cold. If he has a more calculating view of the relationship he will agree to end it. 

It is obvious from your "lunch" story that you are generous by nature and that if he reciprocated the two of you would be in a very different place. 




TwoDogs said:


> The hair is standing up on the back of my neck just reading this. It's like you've been a fly on the wall for our entire relationship.
> 
> You'll love this one. He works from home a short distance from my office, so I got into the habit of stopping by to visit him on my lunch hour and bringing him coffee and a snack. (To the tune of $5 a day, btw) Last year a work friend suggested we go walking at lunch time to get some exercise, and I agreed (I love it, I have so much more energy now) so he only gets his lunch visit if she is busy with something else or it's raining. Ever since, he complains regularly that he doesn't get his visits any more, doesn't eat lunch, etc!
> 
> ...


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## TwoDogs (Jul 29, 2011)

joe kidd said:


> Well it seems that "you've got lots of money" because you don't piss it away. The next time he says "you can afford it" respond with " yes, and I would like to keep it that way". From you have posted he sounds like my 11 yr old when I don't give money for the ice cream truck.


I've actually (gently, diplomatically) pointed out several times that I am in my current financial position because I haven't thrown money away frivolously on non-essentials.

He fires back at me stuff like "You're only young once" (lol, I'm not "young"!) and how all my money is going to do me so much good when I'm too old and feeble to enjoy it, I could die tomorrow, blah blah.

Intellectually he's brilliant but emotionally at times it's like dating a 14 yr old.

I'm definitely struggling with the idea that I'm perceived as being selfish and difficult for wanting to control decisions that affect my OWN (separate) household and finances.


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## TwoDogs (Jul 29, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> TD,
> The way this works in a healthy relationship is that the person with less money - who is being "treated" - goes the extra mile in a non-financial manner. Anyone can say "thank you". But a truly grateful partner will do something that takes effort: cook dinner, do yardwork, fix something in your home.


It's probably obvious by now that I don't have a lot of experience with genuinely healthy relationships.

Not only does he not go the extra mile, it was like pulling teeth to get him to share the load in terms of cooking and dishwashing. We were eating supper almost every night at my house (I pick him up on my way home from work) for about a year or year and a half before I finally convinced him that he was equally responsible for getting a meal on the table. He doesn't do yardwork other than helping me shovel snow about half a dozen times (complaining about my shovels every time -- I should buy new ones!) and isn't "handy" so he doesn't fix stuff.



MEM11363 said:


> It is obvious from your "lunch" story that you are generous by nature and that if he reciprocated the two of you would be in a very different place.


We would. I wouldn't be posting this today. Heck, I'd probably never even have joined this forum!  On the other hand, if I wasn't a wee bit codependent, we would never have lasted this long.... I'm sure I'd have reached the point of being fed up long ago.


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## Open4it (Sep 1, 2011)

Trust your gut.
Your gut led you to write this post for verification of what you know to be the truth of this situation. 

I like a man to be fiscally responsible because that's how I am.
When it comes to finances, I think it's best to find someone who is at least your equal in philosophy and habits if not in income.

In your case, the chestnut "The 'grass' is 'greener' on the other side" may prove to be the truth and worth pursuing. 

Your SO sounds like a spoiled teenager.
I agree with Brian. His behaviour is embarrassing.


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## TwoDogs (Jul 29, 2011)

Open4it said:


> Trust your gut.
> Your gut led you to write this post for verification of what you know to be the truth of this situation.


I've allowed my gut to be swayed by him twisting things around and shifting blame onto me, telling me I'm too rigid and selfish.... about a week ago he left a message on my voicemail calling me "self-centered".  That was in retaliation for me saying that I didn't want to go to the lake (1.5 hrs round trip) for my own sake, but I'd be willing to drive him up there to see his brother. So he left me a sulky "Forget it! I don't want to go if you're going to be like that and I just want to be alone!" message when he knew I was in the shower.... as I learned later, the brother had already left the lake earlier that day and wasn't even going to be there so that was the REAL reason for the change of plan.

It just goes from bad to worse. I tried having a discussion with him last night about this and asked him to tell me what he thought I "got" out of this relationship. His response was: "The pleasure of my company".... he seriously didn't think he needed to contribute anything else. Later in the conversation he told me that he thought he was quite a "prize" as a boyfriend. :scratchhead:

I think the writing is on the wall for this relationship.


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## Open4it (Sep 1, 2011)

Reread your posts in a detached manner as if it were someone you cared about.
What advice would you give her?

It's easy for me to say as I'm not emotionally wrapped up in this guy but as an outsider I don't see him as having any value to you as a life partner and I would drop him.
I'd rather be alone (and am) than settle for someone like this.

I still say your gut knows. It's your mind he's messed with and is getting in your way to see this clearly.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Sounds to me like you and he are not well matched. He sounds over the top in regards to feeling entitled. The future doesn't look good for you two as a couple.

But you will probably have to encounter this the rest of your life. If you have a fair amount of money, you don't want to limit your partner choices to only someone who also has a lot of money. Someday you will find someone who you will want to share with. Someone who may not have a ton of money, but still does their share of whatever (cleaning, cooking, back rubs, etc.). 

My wife doesn't have a paying job. But she more than carries her weight in regards to cooking and cleaning and looking after schedules and kids and paying bills etc. She is lacking in the 'back rubs' or whatever you want to call it department. But what I earn is ours. It goes into a joint account and she buys whatever she / we need. 

I agree with somethings he says about living life now instead of only saving for the future. You have to do some of both. My parents saved for the first 55 years of their lives, always worrying about retirement. My father became ill and wasn't able to enjoy any of it. He always regretted worrying too much about the future.


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## TwoDogs (Jul 29, 2011)

Open4it said:


> Reread your posts in a detached manner as if it were someone you cared about.
> What advice would you give her?
> 
> It's easy for me to say as I'm not emotionally wrapped up in this guy but as an outsider I don't see him as having any value to you as a life partner and I would drop him.
> ...


Somehow, writing it out in black and white makes it pretty unavoidable for me.

He just manages to sound so convincing when he makes demands of me, or mocks me saying stuff like, "Oh, I'd better not ask you to do that or you'll just be more resentful and you'll never let me forget it" which tends to invalidate my feelings.



> I agree with somethings he says about living life now instead of only saving for the future. You have to do some of both.


I don't just save, trust me -- according to my father, I'm a terrible spendthrift!  But I budget my money, don't use credit cards, and generally choose to spend money on things like my house (upgrades and reno) rather than what he wants me to spend money on, which seems to be footing the bill for us to go on overseas vacations. I know he can't afford it without using his credit card, he has no savings. So if we want to travel the options are a) I pay his way b) he goes deeper into debt.

He also thinks I'm crazy for doing any saving for retirement since I will likely inherit enough money. My feeling is that I can't count on a future inheritance.... it could get piddled away, or the value of the investments could plummet... nothing is certain, so I need to take care of my own future first.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Sounds to me like you know what to do. You two aren't compatible. One day you will find someone that you will want to go on vacation with and neither will care who pays for the vacation.


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