# Wife reached a "midlife crisis" and took off. Need advice



## Rider on the Storm (Mar 21, 2018)

Hi all, first time poster. 

Seems like a great community with lots of supportive members so I thought I'd drop in and share my story.

My wife and I have been together for 15 years, married for 9. We met when we were in our early 20s. Our relationship was always great, we were very open and honest, no infidelity, we had great communication and so much love for each other. There have been rough times too, for sure. Financial problems were always there, but we kept smiling and went to bed in each other's arms every night. For reasons I won't go into here, last year we both started suffering from depression. I didn't cope with it very well, left my (rather awful) job and was miserable. She started seeing a therapist and taking an anti depressant. After a while she told me she wants to leave, but we discussed it and agreed to see a MC. I recovered from my depression and was getting back on track, but she was already gone mentally at that stage. We've been to 4-5 sessions until three weeks ago she just walked out the door in tears after she saw to it that we have a beautiful last day together, which I thought was kind of brutal. 

In that time frame she has changed substantially, and is experiencing what I call a midlife crisis for a lack of a better term. She is going out more, meeting new people, has a lot of new girlfriends, suddenly interested in every silly activity or idea and just generally acting very weird posting random photos on FB etc. We had a very close relationship, we were together a lot because we both worked from home very often, and I might have been a rather needy husband emotionally. I admit. She feels that this symbiosis was harmful for both of us, leading to us not fulfilling our individual potentials. Now that I'm on the outside I can see this was probably true, although I feel this is a problem we can solve now that it's out in the open. 

Since she left we have had several conversations and even met a few times. I've done the required soul searching and I think I have a good understanding of what she is going through and where I failed. I listen to her and try to be as compassionate as I can. I'm also obviously dead serious about working on my own problems and facing the issues that come up in this process. She cries a lot when we talk, doesn't shy away from hugging me, kissing me, holding my hand, she says she loves me and doesn't want to hurt me but she can't be with me right now, she needs to be alone, think alone, act alone. When I say I want to give her all the space and time she needs, she gets nervous about me even having hope of reconciling to the point of losing sleep over it. The only thing she agrees to is a separation with no time limit, no mutual commitment to solve problems, nothing. After a few hours discussing this, she agreed to a one month NC separation and seeing our MC afterwards. Although, I know for a fact that she is very pessimistic about our chances and that she does not intend to come back after this month (we speak openly about her needing new accommodation etc). I also see no point in going to the MC if she doesn't want to move forward. She claims there is no other man and I believe her although I know for a fact she is being a bit flirtatious and curious. Nevertheless she agreed that for now we both shouldn't be free to see other people, which is good. 

So here I am. Right now I know the only thing I can do is work on myself. I need a new job, I need to move forward with my own personal dreams and desires, and hope that she sees my commitment to change and forge a new and improved relationship. The only thing that bothers me is whether or not I am hurting this process by keeping my hopes alive... I would love to hear your thoughts.


Thank you all so much


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## Rider on the Storm (Mar 21, 2018)

to mods: don't know why the double post, I simply edited the title...

Would appreciate it if you join the two threads. Thanks!


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Completely ignore her activities.

Live your life with zest.

Pursue a hobby with zeal that you've always wanted to try.

Socialize with other women, but don't get involved physically.

And, go completely silent with her.

You haven't mentioned kids, so I figure you don't have any.


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## Just another (Feb 21, 2018)

Hit the gym as well.


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## Rider on the Storm (Mar 21, 2018)

ReturntoZero said:


> Completely ignore her activities.
> 
> Live your life with zest.
> 
> ...



Thanks. No kids, no. In fact, this latest episode came about after I started talking more seriously about having kids... I felt it was time and that we need it as a couple, we deserved a love child. But I know that for her, that would have been another thing to worry about. She was always a very responsible person, taking care of her mother, her younger sisters, me in a lot of ways. She needs to break from that. 

Yeah that's what I intend to do. We agreed on no contact and I intend to keep this agreement.


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## VermiciousKnid (Nov 14, 2017)

Rider on the Storm said:


> Thanks. No kids, no. In fact, this latest episode came about after I started talking more seriously about having kids... I felt it was time and that we need it as a couple, we deserved a love child. But I know that for her, that would have been another thing to worry about. She was always a very responsible person, taking care of her mother, her younger sisters, me in a lot of ways. She needs to break from that.
> 
> Yeah that's what I intend to do. We agreed on no contact and I intend to keep this agreement.


Make no plans to have children with this woman at this time. That is legal advice and as I mentioned, that's my business. That would complicate the hell out of your situation. I don't like the outlook as is but getting you out clean would be the primary goal if/when we get to that point.


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## Steelman (Mar 5, 2018)

Rider on the Storm said:


> Thanks. No kids, no. In fact, this latest episode came about after I started talking more seriously about having kids... I felt it was time and that we need it as a couple, we deserved a love child. But I know that for her, that would have been another thing to worry about. She was a very responsible person, taking care of her mother, her younger sisters, me in a lot of ways. She needs to break from that.
> 
> Yeah that's what I intend to do. We agreed on no contact and I intend to keep this agreement.


My first wife had a "mid life crisis", although hers was around the age of 30. She had a job opp to travel more around the world, and thought she was tied down some in here 20s and never really wanted kids, so she wanted to leave. She wanted to do her own thing. We did the "separation" thing also, but really all it was, was a way to leave, while still keeping me around a little. It's not like she hated me.

That's what your wife is doing. It's time to call it a day.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Rider on the Storm said:


> Thanks. No kids, no. In fact, this latest episode came about after I started talking more seriously about having kids... I felt it was time and that we need it as a couple, we deserved a love child. But I know that for her, that would have been another thing to worry about. She was always a very responsible person, taking care of her mother, her younger sisters, me in a lot of ways. She needs to break from that.
> 
> Yeah that's what I intend to do. We agreed on no contact and I intend to keep this agreement.


Keep the following in mind.

You always "have plans"

End any phone calls quickly.

Do not respond to texts for at least 15 minutes and preferably an hour.

Any language she used about how "busy" she was (when she used it as an excuse to not pay attention to you) should be in the forefront of your vocabulary now.

This is a full court press to flush her out of her cake eating.

And, it will work if you follow it to the letter.

In the "meantime"

Make yourself a better man.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Let her go. She left you a long time ago. 

File for divorce.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

If a couple is having a hellish fight, sometimes going to separate corners for a day or so to let the dust settle and clear their minds a little can be a good thing. 

Otherwise a separation of more than a few days only serves two purposes -

- One is to begin transitioning to single life without the other without jumping headfirst into the deep end. 

-And the other is to test drive the OM/OW to see if that relationship(s) is going to work out before completely cutting the cord to the marriage. 

Both of those is basically putting the other on the shelf and storing them for later use if the other person doesn't work out.

The question you have to ask yourself is if you are willing to be Plan B and have her settle for you if the other man doesn't work out or if her single life isn't as fabulous as she thinks it will be.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Rider on the Storm said:


> Thanks. No kids, no. In fact, this latest episode came about after I started talking more seriously about having kids... I felt it was time and that we need it as a couple, we deserved a love child. But I know that for her, that would have been another thing to worry about. She was always a *very responsible person*, taking care of her mother, her younger sisters, me in a lot of ways. She needs to break from that.
> 
> Yeah that's what I intend to do. We agreed on no contact and I intend to keep this agreement.


There is nothing responsible or respectful in her actions.
Mid life crisis is no excuse to have affair/affairs......period.
That's what she's doing. 
I've been there done that.
It's a serious pain bringer that keeps on giving. 
Quit making excuses for her behavior.
Mid Life crisis my rear end.


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## Rider on the Storm (Mar 21, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> The question you have to ask yourself is if you are willing to be Plan B and have her settle for you if the other man doesn't work out or if her single life isn't as fabulous as she thinks it will be.


I have to stress that this whole NC idea was mine to begin with. She just wanted to say goodbye for good. I suggested we try this as it was obvious that by meeting and discussing our relationship every few days was just doing more damage and she obviously needs space right now. I'm keeping this alive, not her. She is already in a different place mentally, that's why I have low hopes. But cheating, plan B etc, no I really don't think she would do that honestly.


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## Rider on the Storm (Mar 21, 2018)

I value your honesty, I do. And, I will consider the affair theory very seriously. This idea did cross my mind of course and I have repeatedly confronted her about this until my mind was sort of at ease. Thank you for the input.


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## sa58 (Feb 26, 2018)

As I posted on your other thread 
STOP BLAMING YOURSELF!!
It sounds to me like she wants a break
because she may be having an emotional 
affair and wants to see if it will go Physical and 
last. If it does not work out she thinks you will still 
be there (PLAN B) I bet if you do some checking around
you will find out the truth. YOU SHOULD TELL HER IF SHE 
WANTS A BREAK THEN DIVORCE


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

Rider on the Storm said:


> I value your honesty, I do. And, I will consider the affair theory very seriously. This idea did cross my mind of course and *I have repeatedly confronted her about this until my mind was sort of at ease*. Thank you for the input.


She put your mind to ease with her BS answers. 

Listen to what is being repeated over and over.....because it is true.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Rider on the Storm said:


> In that time frame she has changed substantially, and is experiencing what I call a midlife crisis for a lack of a better term.* She is going out more, meeting new people, has a lot of new girlfriends, suddenly interested in every silly activity or idea and just generally acting very weird posting random photos on FB etc. *We had a very close relationship, we were together a lot because we both worked from home very often, and I might have been a rather needy husband emotionally. I admit. She feels that this symbiosis was harmful for both of us, leading to us not fulfilling our individual potentials. Now that I'm on the outside I can see this was probably true, although I feel this is a problem we can solve now that it's out in the open.
> 
> Since she left we have had several conversations and even met a few times. I've done the required soul searching and I think I have a good understanding of what she is going through and where I failed. I listen to her and try to be as compassionate as I can. I'm also obviously dead serious about working on my own problems and facing the issues that come up in this process. She cries a lot when we talk, doesn't shy away from hugging me, kissing me, holding my hand, she says she loves me and doesn't want to hurt me but she can't be with me right now, she needs to be alone, think alone, act alone. When I say I want to give her all the space and time she needs, she gets nervous about me even having hope of reconciling to the point of losing sleep over it. The only thing she agrees to is a separation with no time limit, no mutual commitment to solve problems, nothing. After a few hours discussing this, she agreed to a one month NC separation and seeing our MC afterwards. Although, I know for a fact that she is very pessimistic about our chances and that she does not intend to come back after this month (we speak openly about her needing new accommodation etc). I also see no point in going to the MC if she doesn't want to move forward. *She claims there is no other man and I believe her although I know for a fact she is being a bit flirtatious and curious.*Nevertheless she agreed that for now we both shouldn't be free to see other people, which is good.
> 
> ...


Most often a separation is for another man. Like many you want to believe her at this time but I think you're being very naive.

Check your phone bill.

You'd be wise to cut off any unnecessary contact. Being weak, needy or constantly contacting her will make this worse.

You'd be better off to file and move on early rather than drag this out. She's told you and shown you her intentions. Believe her


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## Rider on the Storm (Mar 21, 2018)

So, what most of you are saying is that there's no chance that she's genuinely going through a deep emotional change and honestly wants to step back from the marriage WITHOUT actually having an affair?? Isn't that a very sad one dimensional opinion on women? I realize many stories do end like that, but certainly not all.


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## sa58 (Feb 26, 2018)

You confronted her about an affair and she denied it!
RIGHT that has never happened before? The NC was your
Idea or do you just think so? LET HER GO SHE IS OBVIOUSLY 
ALL READY GONE SORRY


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Rider on the Storm said:


> So, what most of you are saying is that there's no chance that she's genuinely going through a deep emotional change and honestly wants to step back from the marriage WITHOUT actually having an affair?? Isn't that a very sad one dimensional opinion on women? I realize many stories do end like that, but certainly not all.


Like most you are in denial. That isn't going to help you much


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Rider on the Storm said:


> So, what most of you are saying is that there's no chance that she's genuinely going through a deep emotional change and honestly wants to step back from the marriage WITHOUT actually having an affair?? Isn't that a very sad one dimensional opinion on women? I realize many stories do end like that, but certainly not all.


I find it more interesting your leap in logic that says this is somehow only a wayward wife problem, when it is in fact a wayward spouse problem, regardless of the gender.

That said, I would bet a paycheck there is another man or woman in the picture...or plural. 

Take the blinders off and remove her from her pedestal...then you will begin to see the situation clearly.


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## Rider on the Storm (Mar 21, 2018)

I simply don't see how you can make such claims with so much confidence. Based on what? That she has new girlfriends and is interested in new things? Maybe there is something going on and maybe not, I don't think telling myself she's out there messing around town will do much good either at this point.


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## Um Excuse Me (Feb 3, 2018)

There it is again: the s***y equation rears it's ugly head. "Mid-life crisis = excuse to f**k around"......


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## sa58 (Feb 26, 2018)

Sorry the thought of her having an affair hurts. I UNDERSTAND
But you do not know what is going on either. Because of NO CONTACT.
How can you be so sure nothing is going on.BECAUSE SHE TELLS YOU!!
Find out what is going on by yourself and take care of yourself.
Do not simply wait around and hope for her to come back. I DO NOT
THINK SHE IS.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

StillSearching said:


> There is nothing responsible or respectful in her actions.


I would at least give her credit for being forthcoming.


> Mid life crisis is no excuse to have affair/affairs......period.
> That's what she's doing.


Did I miss the part where he says she had an affiar?


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

Rider on the Storm said:


> I simply don't see how you can make such claims with so much confidence. Based on what? That she has new girlfriends and is interested in new things? Maybe there is something going on and maybe not, I don't think telling myself she's out there messing around town will do much good either at this point.


Rider, I know what you are thinking and what you are going through, I have been there, the reason they are making these claims is that there are so many more that have been there as well. Spend a few days reading posts on here. A large majority begin and will end as your story will. It defies rational, it does. It's crazy how the Waywards use all of the same terms, ploys, etc. Almost like it's a disease that spreads and has almost all the same symptoms.

There is a chance she is just having a MLC but it's a very small chance it's without anyone else.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Rider on the Storm said:


> I simply don't see how you can make such claims with so much confidence. Based on what? That she has new girlfriends and is interested in new things? Maybe there is something going on and maybe not, I don't think telling myself she's out there messing around town will do much good either at this point.



The reason we are all fairly certain there is another man involved to one degree or another is because we are all seeing the signs and the patterns. 

All you have done is asked her and she said no. Anyone can say anything. I can say I am a tall, rich, handsome gazillionaire with a 12" Johnson but me saying it does not make it so. 

In the absence of abuse, alcoholism/drug addiction, chronic, untreated mental illness or chronic unemployment, it is quite rare for a wife to suddenly pack up and leave her husband if there is not another man in the picture to one degree or another. 

If you were do an honest investigation without her knowledge and go through her phone records, hack her computer, emails, social media or have her followed, you will very likely find there is someone else. 

One real quick and easy way discover the truth is to hide a voice activated recorder in her car. People often carry on conversations with their AP while in the car. 

Not only look for email and phone conversation directly with the OM, but also any emails/social media and phone conversations with her girlfriends. Many WWs will discuss their extracurricular activities with one of more of their girlfriends (and it will likely be one of these new girlfriends. Particularly one who has recently divorced or separated herself and is now screwing half the town)

Right now you are just taking her word that she is not making headway with someone else. But I have a newsflash for you - cheaters lie. 

Seek the truth and you will find it.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Rider on the Storm said:


> So, what most of you are saying is that there's no chance that she's genuinely going through a deep emotional change and honestly wants to step back from the marriage WITHOUT actually having an affair?? Isn't that a very sad one dimensional opinion on women? I realize many stories do end like that, but certainly not all.


Chat rooms tend to become echo chambers, and this one echoes "everyone is having an affair." If your spouse develops lactose intolerance, it's proof she's having an affair.

Maybe she is, maybe not. People are individuals. It's not like posting here demands any qualifications as a counsellor.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

And here is why it is critical for you to find out if there is someone else or not. If she is getting her jollies with someone else, then anything that you do in trying to save your marriage will all be for nothing. 

Nothing you do including MC, heart-to-heart discussions, date nights, flowers, footrubs etc etc will have any impact whatsoever if she is seeing someone else. It will all be wasted time, energy and money. 

If you are wanting to save your marriage and have a healthy and happy relationship going forward, you simply have to find out if you are in competition with someone else or not. 

If there is someone else, nothing else that you do will have any positive effect and more often than not, your efforts to save the marriage will just make you look more desperate and pathetic in her eyes.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Sir, to be succinct, experience on this site and many others has shown that the mid life crisis is sigificantly the catalyst for infidelities. If this is not the case with your wife, then one recommends distance, and complete non communication for a month. After a month, revisit this. I would also recommend a certain amount of surveillance of her. I realize that this seems to be a very shallow view of womankind, however, as myriads of posters here can attest, the request that you received is an indicator 9 times out of 10, that there is another on the scene. Be vigilant. Also, it would behoove you to detach at this time, as in any event, whether it is infidelity or a mental crisis, this marriage may be over.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Rider on the Storm said:


> I have to stress that this whole NC idea was mine to begin with. She just wanted to say goodbye for good. I suggested we try this as it was obvious that by meeting and discussing our relationship every few days was just doing more damage and she obviously needs space right now. I'm keeping this alive, not her. She is already in a different place mentally, that's why I have low hopes. But cheating, plan B etc, no *I really don't think she would do that honestly*.


No one ever does. Then it happens. Then they end up here.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Rider on the Storm said:


> I simply don't see how you can make such claims with so much confidence. Based on what? That she has new girlfriends and is interested in new things? Maybe there is something going on and maybe not, I don't think telling myself she's out there messing around town will do much good either at this point.


It's very typical of what happens with a walk away wife. It plays out over and over.

You are comfortable in denial like most. If you don't know the full truth you don't have to do anything. Red flags are flying all over. At this time you don't want to see the truth. The only thing this does is keep you bound in the state you're in.

*Check your phone bill. *


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> And here is why it is critical for you to find out if there is someone else or not. *If she is getting her jollies with someone else, then anything that you do in trying to save your marriage will all be for nothing.*
> 
> Nothing you do including MC, heart-to-heart discussions, date nights, flowers, footrubs etc etc will have any impact whatsoever if she is seeing someone else. It will all be wasted time, energy and money.
> 
> ...


Please heed this advice OP. I spent 7 long months doing everything, every book, every podcast, training, counseling, etc. It all fell flat and for the first 4-5 months I thought I was doing something wrong, it was then, when I realized it just wasn't hitting the target because the target was long gone .... hear, mind, body and soul with OM.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Rider on the Storm said:


> I simply don't see how you can make such claims with so much confidence. Based on what? That she has new girlfriends and is interested in new things? Maybe there is something going on and maybe not, I don't think telling myself she's out there messing around town will do much good either at this point.


The reason it is so crucial is because dealing with a wayward wife (WW) and dealing with a walk away wife (WAW) require drastically different approaches. In fact, some of the approaches used for a WAW will actually work against you if you are living in infidelity.

This is why you must...MUST rule it out. 

I hope to not be right, brother. But I would urge you to prove it...for yourself...so you can take appropriate action.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

stillfightingforus said:


> Please heed this advice OP. I spent 7 long months doing everything, every book, every podcast, training, counseling, etc. It all fell flat and for the first 4-5 months I thought I was doing something wrong, it was then, when I realized it just wasn't hitting the target because the target was long gone .... hear, mind, body and soul with OM.


Sigh, how many times must I remind people that his name is "posOM"


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

stillfightingforus said:


> A large majority begin and will end as your story will. It defies rational, it does. It's crazy how the Waywards use all of the same terms, ploys, etc. Almost like it's a disease that spreads and has almost all the same symptoms.
> 
> .


This ^^^^^

Waywards almost always follow the same script. Signs and symptoms of a disease is a very good analogy. 

She is showing some of the hallmark signs and symptoms of the disease of cheating. 

You haven't mentioned a few of the other classics so let me ask you.....and be honest - 

- has she started keeping her phone attached to her at all times and has she even taken it into the bathroom with her when she showers or goes to the bathroom? Does she take it into the closet with her when she is changing clothes or picking out outfits? Has she put on a password or changed the password? 

-Is she secretive about her activities on the computer and change or close out screens when you walk in the room.

-have her sleep habits changed? is she up on her phone/computer after you have gone to bed or does she get up earlier in the morning to get on her phone/computer. 

-does she have her phone on silent now where she did not used to before?

-does she sleep with her phone where she did not used to before?

- Has her general attitude towards you changed rather quickly? Does she seem more critical of you and more irritated or even angry towards you even though you haven't really done anything that should honk her off? Is she more dismissive of you and cares less about your thoughts and opinions on both large and small things?

- Has she recently gone into a rage about something that normally wouldn't rile her up that much? 

-Conversely, has she appeared detached and unconcerned about things she normally would value?

- Has her appearance changed or her attitude towards her appearance changed quite a bit? Has she suddenly taken an interest in going to the gym/losing weight? Buying new clothes? Change of hairstyle? Different make up? Pedicures and manicures and nail polish etc that she didn't used to before? Is she whitening her teeth and tanning that she wasn't before? 

-Has her desire and attitude about sex and intimacy towards you change rather quickly? Did she suddenly seem to start feeling uncomfortable or awkward with you sexually?

- Did she start outright rejecting you sexually where she wasn't before?

-Conversely, was there a temporary period where she suddenly became very sexually responsive and adventurous or a temporary period of time where she was very horny and wanting it all the time. Did that period of time seem to turn on and then turn off again as though a switch had been flipped on and then just as suddenly flipped off?

- When you tried to discuss marital issues, did she appear to blow you off/ridicule you or imply that you were imagining it or even crazy? Did she imply that you have mental issues?

-If you pressed the issue did she suddenly become very angry or attack you emotionally or verbally? Did she ever go into a rage?

- Then if you continued to press the issue, did she appear to completely disconnect and more less discard you and say that it was all pointless?

*Important note:*The Ridicule - Rage - Discard pattern is almost a hallmark sign of cheating. 


Any one of these signs along with the ones you have already posted do not necessarily indicate a 3rd party if taken individually. But the more of these signs added together, increase the likelihood of other man pretty exponentially.


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## VermiciousKnid (Nov 14, 2017)

Rider on the Storm said:


> I value your honesty, I do. And, I will consider the affair theory very seriously. This idea did cross my mind of course and I have repeatedly confronted her about this until my mind was sort of at ease. Thank you for the input.


Considering your wife's approach to this and the things she's said, my own experience in this topic suggests a 95% chance she's with someone else and only about 5% chance she isn't. Human beings are social creatures. Rarely do they say I just want to be alone. Especially if they're dealing with stuff. Those are times they want to be around others more than not. The kind of people we really like to be around when dealing with stuff are people who only agree with us and support us no matter what. In a case like this that would be an affair partner. She can do no wrong with him. It'll all be your fault and he'll agree with her on everything (until she's his). I've seen this scenario so many times and I've seen so many loving trusting partners like yourself absolutely blindsided and dumbfounded by the levels of lies and treachery their once beloved spouse could commit against them.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

VermiciousKnid said:


> Considering your wife's approach to this and the things she's said, my own experience in this topic suggests a 95% chance she's with someone else and only about 5% chance she isn't. Human beings are social creatures. Rarely do they say I just want to be alone. Especially if they're dealing with stuff. Those are times they want to be around others more than not. The kind of people we really like to be around when dealing with stuff are people who only agree with us and support us no matter what. In a case like this that would be an affair partner. She can do no wrong with him. It'll all be your fault and he'll agree with her on everything (until she's his). I've seen this scenario so many times and I've seen so many loving trusting partners like yourself absolutely blindsided and dumbfounded by the levels of lies and treachery their once beloved spouse could commit against them.


The whole GNO scene... going out with "friends" includes alcohol and men.

Then the pretty girls often compete for who goes home with Mr. Stud.

Taking one up the middle establishes "her" as the most desirable in the group. Bad bad stuff.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I will also add that one of the defenses that BSs always use is that their spouse "...does not have time for an affair.." 

Let's make some crucial differenciations here. Single people dating and looking for a mate spend time having long phone conversations, candlelight dinners, walks on the beach in the moonlight etc. 

Cheating spouses need a place out of sight for 5 minutes. Literally.

Once cheaters have established that a mutual attraction exists and that the other is DTF, they will literally drop their clothes as they are walking into a room or will do it in the car in the back of a park or something. Affair trysts are not romantic and glamorous. They are often quick and down and dirty. 

They are also very high-intensity and powerful emotionally to the participants and that is why it is so important to rule out an affair before making any attempts at reconciliation or MC etc.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

oldshirt said:


> I will also add that one of the defenses that BSs always use is that their spouse "...does not have time for an affair.."
> 
> Let's make some crucial differenciations here. Single people dating and looking for a mate spend time having long phone conversations, candlelight dinners, walks on the beach in the moonlight etc.
> 
> ...


Back seats of cars for quick blow jobs... doesn't take any time at all - especially when it's so "exciting" and forbidden.


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## Rider on the Storm (Mar 21, 2018)

SpinyNorman said:


> Chat rooms tend to become echo chambers, and this one echoes "everyone is having an affair." If your spouse develops lactose intolerance, it's proof she's having an affair.
> 
> Maybe she is, maybe not. People are individuals. It's not like posting here demands any qualifications as a counsellor.


Thanks for this! 


Listen guys (no women around??), I admit that I have these thoughts. I would be crazy not to. I DID try to look through her phone, browsing history and anything else I could get my hands on before she left. So far no proof but the suspicion is still there. I did see something which I considered flirting at the time, but not something I am willing to throw my marriage overboard for. Until I can prove that something is up I rather take her word for now. However, thank you for making me even more vigilant about this!


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## Rider on the Storm (Mar 21, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> This ^^^^^
> 
> Waywards almost always follow the same script. Signs and symptoms of a disease is a very good analogy.
> 
> ...



Most of this is false in my case. She does value her phone's security a bit more now after I actively went through her messages once (and read her personal diary). Who wouldn't? She is entitled to some privacy. And definitely no Ridicule - Rage - Discard pattern.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Rider on the Storm said:


> Thanks for this!
> 
> 
> Listen guys (no women around??), I admit that I have these thoughts. I would be crazy not to. I DID try to look through her phone, browsing history and anything else I could get my hands on before she left. So far no proof but the suspicion is still there. I did see something which I considered flirting at the time, but not something I am willing to throw my marriage overboard for. Until I can prove that something is up I rather take her word for now. However, thank you for making me even more vigilant about this!


In the end, you need to decide how much energy you would want to expend to see if she was cheating and weigh it against the outcome you are desiring. I would say the chances of her cheating prior to and at the time she left to be 50/50. Now that she has been gone from you for a while? Probably 90%. 

If you desire to end the marriage, then I would say cut bait and just do it. Offer her a fair split of everything, a quick dissolution, and be on your merry way. Investing more and more of yourself into a woman who has detached from you is folly. You are better off spending your energy healing from the pain and improving yourself as a person. If life has you down, then now is the time to look into maybe going back to school to learn a new career, or getting a graduate degree to increase your earning potential. To combat depression, make sure you are getting in to see a therapist as often as possible. Make sure you are exercising daily, lifting weights and eating healthy. Just doing this will improve your outlook on life and keep you from wallowing.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Rider on the Storm said:


> Most of this is false in my case. She does value her phone's security a bit more now after I actively went through her messages once (and read her personal diary). Who wouldn't? *She is entitled to some privacy*. And definitely no Ridicule - Rage - Discard pattern.


Nope. You bought into the lie that many have bought into. 

There is no privacy in a healthy marriage of equals. Marriage is about full transparency, openness and honesty. If she wants privacy then she doesn't need to be married period.


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## Rider on the Storm (Mar 21, 2018)

bandit.45 said:


> In the end, you need to decide how much energy you would want to expend to see if she was cheating and weigh it against the outcome you are desiring. I would say the chances of her cheating prior to and at the time she left to be 50/50. Now that she has been gone from you for a while? Probably 90%.
> 
> If you desire to end the marriage, then I would say cut bait and just do it. Offer her a fair split of everything, a quick dissolution, and be on your merry way. Investing more and more of yourself into a woman who has detached from you is folly. You are better off spending your energy healing from the pain and improving yourself as a person. If life has you down, then now is the time to look into maybe going back to school to learn a new career, or getting a graduate degree to increase your earning potential. To combat depression, make sure you are getting in to see a therapist as often as possible. Make sure you are exercising daily, lifting weights and eating healthy. Just doing this will improve your outlook on life and keep you from wallowing.


Thanks man. I'm on all of that as we speak, I am my number 1 priority after all. Cheers.


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## Rider on the Storm (Mar 21, 2018)

bandit.45 said:


> Nope. You bought into the lie that many have bought into.
> 
> There is no privacy in a healthy marriage of equals. Marriage is about full transparency, openness and honesty. If she wants privacy then she doesn't need to be married period.


We strongly disagree on that point. Honesty doesn't mean not having a small amount of space for your self. Your inner most thoughts and feelings. That's why I would never ask her what she tells her therapist. Nor would I tell her.


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## Cromer (Nov 25, 2016)

She's gone, you just haven't accepted it yet. I was on the other side, and it wasn't a mid-life anything crisis. I just wanted out. The sooner you accept it and move on, the better. Or, find yourself on heavy meds and counseling for the foreseeable future (i.e. my ex). Sorry, my friend, just facts.


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## sa58 (Feb 26, 2018)

How long do you wait?
30 days 6 months 1 year
forever and a day.

How long before you take care of you
and move on ?


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

Rider on the Storm said:


> She is going out more, meeting new people, has a lot of new girlfriends, suddenly interested in every silly activity or idea and just generally acting very weird posting random photos on FB etc.


Sounds like she is trying to engage with life in a very normal way. Modern neuroscience has demonstrated that the brain's activity normallizes, and the body's sympathetic nervous system operates properly when we have a regular in-person engagement with between 10 and 50 people who are not members of our immediate family. A social circle, to give it a name.



Rider on the Storm said:


> We had a very close relationship, we were together a lot because we both worked from home very often, and I might have been a rather needy husband emotionally. I admit. She feels that this symbiosis was harmful for both of us, leading to us not fulfilling our individual potentials. Now that I'm on the outside I can see this was probably true, although I feel this is a problem we can solve now that it's out in the open.


A symbiotic relationship is nice to have, but if it's your only relationship, then in psychology, it is considered pathological - you end up utterly dependent on just one other person. It is a very risky relationship, and if you read books on working from home, it is considered one of the top 3 risks. If you choose to work from home, you MUST put efforts into having in-person connections with people who are not family, nor part of work.



Rider on the Storm said:


> I'm also obviously dead serious about working on my own problems and facing the issues that come up in this process.


I don't expect you to list them here, but are you sure you know what your "own problems" are? Most of us are unable to identify them by ourselves. A counselor can help. Based on what you've written, my own guess is that you are leading or have led, a life that's too sheltered from close in-person relationships outside of your romantic relationship.



Rider on the Storm said:


> She cries a lot when we talk, doesn't shy away from hugging me, kissing me, holding my hand, she says she loves me and doesn't want to hurt me but she can't be with me right now, she needs to be alone, think alone, act alone. When I say I want to give her all the space and time she needs, she gets nervous about me even having hope of reconciling to the point of losing sleep over it. The only thing she agrees to is a separation with no time limit, no mutual commitment to solve problems, nothing. After a few hours discussing this, she agreed to a one month NC separation and seeing our MC afterwards. Although, I know for a fact that she is very pessimistic about our chances and that she does not intend to come back after this month (we speak openly about her needing new accommodation etc). I also see no point in going to the MC if she doesn't want to move forward. She claims there is no other man and I believe her although I know for a fact she is being a bit flirtatious and curious. Nevertheless she agreed that for now we both shouldn't be free to see other people, which is good.


So, you're writing a lot about her, and the two of you, without making any references to the world at large. If she is now socializing in a normal way, and you're still isolating yourself to mostly or exclusively her, then to her, you are probably looking more and more like an offspring/dependent that she has to nurture, rather than an equal partner in a mutually supportive relationship. 

One thing that might help...I found it useful in "balancing", figuring out what things in life are worth considering, as a whole...instead of focusing too much on too few things. "Psychological well-being". Look specifically for a list of Carol Ryff's six pillars of psychological well-being. In brief:
- View your life, current and past, positively
- Have the ability and desire to make friends on an as-needed and as-desired basis
- Believe that you have adequate ability to shape your immediate environment to suit your needs
- Autonomy - You believe that you have mastery over yourself - have an "inner locus of control", that is, you believe you are solely responsible for your happiness, primarily responsible for your success, etc, and you don't blame any negative things on other people, the environment, the economy, etc.
- Have a purpose in life, such as a goal that causes you to wake up every morning with energy and enthusiasm
- Believe and act as if you are on a perpetual personal growth path, intentionally choosing areas in which to learn and grow, and then executing on those plans

I find that reviewing this list approximately monthly helps me to realize weak spots that have been holding me back.




Rider on the Storm said:


> So here I am. Right now I know the only thing I can do is work on myself. I need a new job, I need to move forward with my own personal dreams and desires, and hope that she sees my commitment to change and forge a new and improved relationship. The only thing that bothers me is whether or not I am hurting this process by keeping my hopes alive... I would love to hear your thoughts.


Hope for what? If your hope is for your own happiness and self-worth, then it's a good thing. If you're hoping for another person, such as your wife, to "come around" or otherwise see it your way, then you are pinning your happiness on the behavior of someone over whom you have no control. You don't hurt any process by having hope for it, but you hurt many things for having hopes for someone else to change the way you want them to. The only thing you can control is yourself, so it's a fool's errand to pin your happiness on anybody but yourself. 

Good luck!

DD


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Rider on the Storm said:


> Hi all, first time poster.
> 
> Seems like a great community with lots of supportive members so I thought I'd drop in and share my story.
> 
> ...


To put it bluntly, you’re a naive fool to believe that there’s not another guy — or guy*s* — in the picture.

Because there is.

Anyway, she wants an open-ended separation on her terms because she doesn’t yet know how long it’s going to take her to work through the semi-finished list of guys she wants to bang. Additionally, she wants to make sure that her good ol’ safety net (that’s you) will be there to welcome her back once she’s finally gotten it all out of her system and is ready to come home.

She’s gone, man. In every way that matters, anyway.

Let her go.

The next time you talk, tell her that you’re moving forward with divorce.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

Rider on the Storm said:


> I simply don't see how you can make such claims with so much confidence. Based on what? That she has new girlfriends and is interested in new things? Maybe there is something going on and maybe not, I don't think telling myself she's out there messing around town will do much good either at this point.


You're right that there is a possibility that your wife suddenly wanted to leave a marriage with a caring husband after she started going out alone and spending time meeting new friends, but it is only a very small chance. From what I understand, your biggest "crime" was being a little bit too emotionally needy with your wife. That's not a realistic reason need to leave you. Instead, it is almost always driven by emotions of getting involved with another person.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> To put it bluntly, you’re a naive fool to believe that there’s not another guy — or guy*s* — in the picture.
> 
> Because there is.
> 
> ...


Even though he is likely wrong about there not being another man involved, he's not necessarily a naive fool.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Rider on the Storm said:


> We strongly disagree on that point. Honesty doesn't mean not having a small amount of space for your self. Your inner most thoughts and feelings. That's why I would never ask her what she tells her therapist. Nor would I tell her.


Then I would say to you, your idea of marriage is a shallow one. 

Being married means becoming so intimate that you are like one person.. one nervous system. There should be no secrets, no hiding anything. There should not be one single dark recess of your soul that your spouse is not aware of, nor you hers. 

Just my opinion. You may chuck it out the window it if you wish.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Steve1000 said:


> Even though he is likely wrong about there not being another man involved, he's not necessarily a naive fool.


He is if he truly believes there’s not another guy in the picture.

Hey, no judgement — we’ve all been naive fools at some point or another.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Rider on the Storm said:


> We strongly disagree on that point. Honesty doesn't mean not having a small amount of space for your self. Your inner most thoughts and feelings. That's why I would never ask her what she tells her therapist. Nor would I tell her.


Just for fun see if the therapist will tell you anything about the boyfriend.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

What is concerning is that he latched right onto the post that suggested he was only going to get one perception on this board. OP, I know you are looking for some validation on why it may not be another man and it doesn't make any sense but that type of validation is the same frame of mind that the Wayward Spouse uses when validating why it's ok to leave a marriage, to have an affair, etc. Only listening to what they want to hear.

I guess, look at it this way. Unless she has said to you she plans on being single the rest of her life. The separation means she has had the OM in tow already, lined up or is going to go on the hunt.

You also have to be careful of how convincing what you once knew as your love, will now use every bit of clarity they have to convince you there's no one else, that she just needs space, that she isn't even thinking about relationships now. My STBXW even went as far as saying she wasn't having an affair because she knows it never works when you start a relationship before the current one ends. She did a great job at trickle truthing as well, telling me stuff I didn't know so that I thought, wow, she is telling me everything but I was only getting 5% of the story.


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## Rider on the Storm (Mar 21, 2018)

DustyDog said:


> Sounds like she is trying to engage with life in a very normal way. Modern neuroscience has demonstrated that the brain's activity normallizes, and the body's sympathetic nervous system operates properly when we have a regular in-person engagement with between 10 and 50 people who are not members of our immediate family. A social circle, to give it a name.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks DD

Well yes, after hours of conversations with her, our MC, friends and family I do think I have a rather good grasp of the issues I need to tackle on my own. One of them is indeed the fact that I don't make friends easily, don't go out much, and don't have a healthy social circle. I am aware of this and already moving in the the direction of remedying this, as much as possible, while not losing myself in the process. I'll never be the life of the party, nor do I wish to be. 

And, hope for what? Hope for us having a future of course. I love her, we understand each other and know each other so well. We've been through so much and I don't want to throw all that away. This surely doesn't mean I am relying on her to save me from anything. If it seems that way well yes that's exactly the sort of mentality I intend to change as soon as possible. I want us to both be strong, independent individuals who freely choose to be together.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> To put it bluntly, you’re a naive fool to believe that there’s not another guy — or guy*s* — in the picture.
> 
> Because there is.
> 
> ...


 Or even better yet just file and have her served. Say nothing. If that doesn't shake her out of her fog/MLC then nothing will and you are one step closer to taking the only option you truly have. She's checked out and sooner or later she's going to file anyway, you'll just be miserable in the meantime.


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## stro (Feb 7, 2018)

Take care of yourself and and live well and realize you don’t have control.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

bandit.45 said:


> Nope. You bought into the lie that many have bought into.
> 
> There is no privacy in a healthy marriage of equals. Marriage is about full transparency, openness and honesty. If she wants privacy then she doesn't need to be married period.


Entitled to your opinion, but mine differs. It sure wasn't in my wedding vows.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> Hey, no judgement — we’ve all been naive fools at some point or another.


At some point of time, yes, especially me.


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

Rubix Cubed said:


> Or even better yet just file and have her served. Say nothing. If that doesn't shake her out of her fog/MLC then nothing will and you are one step closer to taking the only option you truly have. She's checked out and sooner or later she's going to file anyway, you'll just be miserable in the meantime.


^^^^this.

Based on your info, this is classic WAW scenario. Been there, done that. Cheating or not, doesn't really matter. She checked out a looong time ago. If you are honest with yourself, with 20/20 hindsight, it's obvious (now).

Do the above. Nothing else you can do and nothing left to lose anyway.

The worst you can do: do nothing and pine for her to come back with her tail between her legs and be "another stander". Yuck. Never works anyway and you will end up by killing yourself.

The best you can do: cut your losses and get on with your life. One day she may very well come out of her fog and see what she has lost. But by then you will be sooo much ahead that you won't even notice.

I wish you well brother. Some interesting years lie ahead of you.


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## Rider on the Storm (Mar 21, 2018)

Thank you all for your input. 

Alright let's just say there's a 50/50 chance she's cheating in one form or another alright? Let's put this out of the way. Would love to hear from women for a fresh perspective.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Rider,

I get your love your wife, i get you want to have this marriage continue...but you fail to see and i am not sure you get it...that if you want to work on a marriage you don't do it going NC..if you accept this then you accept that your marriage is officially broken and your blind to it. let me you ask this have both of you accepted not to see other people? but you haven't and your kidding yourself otherwise...you look weak to her and you look weak to yourself. I'm truly sorry your here, but you need to stand tall and tell her that you need to ghost her completely and do your own thing to stop this co-dependancy.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Rider on the Storm said:


> Thanks DD
> 
> Well yes, after hours of conversations with her, our MC, friends and family I do think I have a rather good grasp of the issues I need to tackle on my own. One of them is indeed the fact that I don't make friends easily, don't go out much, and don't have a healthy social circle. I am aware of this and already moving in the the direction of remedying this, as much as possible, while not losing myself in the process. I'll never be the life of the party, nor do I wish to be.
> 
> And, hope for what? Hope for us having a future of course. I love her, we understand each other and know each other so well. We've been through so much and I don't want to throw all that away. This surely doesn't mean I am relying on her to save me from anything. If it seems that way well yes that's exactly the sort of mentality I intend to change as soon as possible. I want us to both be strong, independent individuals who freely choose to be together.


I'm not going to touch on the possibility of her cheating, atm.

Whether cheating or not.... she has virtually walked out on your M. Remember those vows you took?

WTF is it with people today.... M for 8-10 years, skipping along, then a big issues arises and they

do not even think once.... about digging in together. They move out... start clubbing, meeting

new people.... -what fun this is!- Why did they get M then? M does not involve separate addresses

and bar hopping solo. Just don't work that way.

Five years ago I dropped D papers in my then Ws lap....She wanted us to remain M, share expenses,

but do our own thing. To this day, I do not know if there was someone else, or not.

It did not matter.... the fact she was not willing to fight for the M was enough for me.

We were together 15 years too. 20% of one's average life span. And she did come back home.

Really never left... but wouldn't return home at night through the week. I took that time to detach

and when she returned, I had one non-negotiable on the coffee table. Even if that would have been met,

the D was still going to occur. And there was zero guarantee I would even want to stick around.

She wanted to talk about anything..... but the M. How work went, how her work g/f had a fender bender...

in other words rugsweeping everything. So.... what if I had stayed? Same thing, different day.

She wasn't happy and... I wasn't either. But I was willing to fight to make the M work.... she didn't.

Five years later she periodically makes reaches, wants to meet, try again, asks for $.

Getting the D was the best thing that could have happened to me. Yeah... get lonely sometimes...

Overnight guests are easy to come by but... I'm speaking about that deep connection.

Something you say you and her had. Go ahead and file for D. You can stop a D at any time.

Even the day it is to be finalized. Heck you can even re-marry. My parents did.

But the position you are in now is not healthy. She needs to be fully transparent and move back in.

The way it is now.... your chances of it working out are slim to none.

With no kids....an in-house separation wouldn't be that hard. Did she ever mention that?

All the posters who are saying she is most likely seeing someone.... they say that from real life

experiences of themselves or friends. And from these boards. Your story is clockwork scripted.

Go read @MovingForward threads. He swore his precious W wasn't cheating.

Guess what.... she was


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

stillfightingforus said:


> What is concerning is that he latched right onto the post that suggested he was only going to get one perception on this board. OP, I know you are looking for some validation on why it may not be another man and it doesn't make any sense but that type of validation is the same frame of mind that the Wayward Spouse uses when validating why it's ok to leave a marriage, to have an affair, etc. Only listening to what they want to hear.
> 
> I guess, look at it this way. Unless she has said to you she plans on being single the rest of her life. The separation means she has had the OM in tow already, lined up or is going to go on the hunt.
> 
> You also have to be careful of how convincing what you once knew as your love, will now use every bit of clarity they have to convince you there's no one else, that she just needs space, that she isn't even thinking about relationships now. My STBXW even went as far as saying she wasn't having an affair because she knows it never works when you start a relationship before the current one ends. She did a great job at trickle truthing as well, telling me stuff I didn't know so that I thought, wow, she is telling me everything but I was only getting 5% of the story.


Pay attention to this poster Rider. He too thought as you once did.

Everyone told him what would happen.... and it did.

This guy was.... where you are now. He is trying to keep you from walking on land mines.

I strongly urge you to listen...


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

@rider of the Storm - if she loved you, she would not be bailing on you. If you were meant to be together, she would try to make that happen. Cheating or not, she is violating your vows. She is not honoring you, no have and to hold (typically this implies a sexual relationship), etc. I think you need to consult a lawyer, just to see how scary it will be if you wait years and still D. Alimony can go up after certain thresholds of time. If she has a kid, while you are still married, it is much harder for you to get out from it, if it isn't yours. You really need to figure out how much self esteem you are willing to blow on a girl who ran away and likely isn't coming back.

At this point, I don't see what there really is to save. I wish you the best.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

naiveonedave said:


> @rider of the Storm - if she loved you, she would not be bailing on you. If you were meant to be together, she would try to make that happen. Cheating or not, she is violating your vows. She is not honoring you, no have and to hold (typically this implies a sexual relationship), etc. I think you need to consult a lawyer, just to see how scary it will be if you wait years and still D. Alimony can go up after certain thresholds of time. * If she has a kid, while you are still married, it is much harder for you to get out from it, if it isn't yours. You really need to figure out how much self esteem you are willing to blow on a girl who ran away and likely isn't coming back.*
> 
> At this point, I don't see what there really is to save. I wish you the best.


That ^


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Rider on the Storm said:


> Thank you all for your input.
> 
> Alright let's just say there's a 50/50 chance she's cheating in one form or another alright? Let's put this out of the way. Would love to hear from women for a fresh perspective.


More like 99.999/0.001.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

It may not be a midlife crisis. You said you were both depressed in the recent past. That may have led her to a realization that her life is not going the way she hoped, but it's not clear if you are part of the perceived problem, or a hapless victim of circumstance. Regardless, she has left, and it sounds like she is certain that she has no intention of returning. If that's the case, what she does going forward is up to her - you've been notified. What you do, is file for divorce. Either that makes the end certain, or provides a reality check for her for her to reconsider.

You don't know if she was cheating before she left. If she wasn't, but has told you she's not returning, her current and future actions no longer matter unless she wants to save the relationship.


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## sa58 (Feb 26, 2018)

Rider 
She may or may not be cheating but she may or may not meet
someone else. She may have just decided to go out and be more
sociable since you say you are not. Either way my question is
HOW LONG DO YOU WAIT?
PLEASE DO NOT SIT BY AND JUST DO NOTHING!!
LIVE YOUR LIFE TO THE FULLEST AND BE HAPPY
WITH OR WITH OUT HER.

HOW LONG DO YOU WAIT FOR HER TO COME BACK?!!
IF SHE EVER DOES


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

Chuck71 said:


> I'm not going to touch on the possibility of her cheating, atm.
> 
> Whether cheating or not.... she has virtually walked out on your M. Remember those vows you took?
> 
> ...


OP 

If there were a couple things I was certain off when I was in a similar situation it was that is was all my fault, I needed to work on me and there was noway in Hell she was cheating or interested in another man, she just did not have time, always with kids, or me or work, there was just noway for another man to be in the picture. 

I didn't listen as much as I should on this board and was blind to her deception and deaf to people telling me what was going on, 2 weeks after Divorce the person she denied existing went on vacation with her and our children, 6 months on she moved my children in with him and they are now a family and I am apparently a bitter miserable A-hole(Not true very happy actually)

Best thing you can do is get all your ducks in a row to make sure legally you are covered and ready for best possible settlement, then file for Divorce and go hard, she may changer her tune at that point and beg to come back, do not allow her, you need to retain power and strength for your own mental health, sanity and well being, this is very important do not allow her to dictate the situation or lay down terms, it will result in you being even more miserable. 

Your Situation is not unique and your relationship is not different, this is a story which has been told a million times and always with the same ending.

Two outcomes can come from this and both positive and beneficial to you.

1) She see's you are serious, see's your strength and you have taken a choice away from her and suddenly want to work on things, be very very careful and do not allow this to happen immediately, you need to be control and not easily swayed back to her and if you decide you can work on your relationship again if you really want but at some point 'other man' may pop up and then you are in a weird situation

2) You have made a choice so feel in control, she doesn't care but since it was your choice to file and move forward you retain power in yourself, you have self respect and are not being led on until she loses all respect for you and Divorces you anyway, _*you end up Divorced, get a hotter girlfriend who loves sex and cannot keep her hands of you, you realize your x was nothing special at all and kick yourself for staying so long and idolizing someone who was nothing, you make a new life that is better than the past one and kick yourself again for not doing it sooner.

I did what you are doing, waited like a weak little puppy and begged her to be with me while being more and more depressed and her losing more and more respect in me, the one time i showed strength she came running back and i immediately welcomed her and was right back to square one. Lucky it worked out the bolded part actually happened :grin2:

*_


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## Rider on the Storm (Mar 21, 2018)

Thanks everyone. Almost all of you seem to be on the same page which I find rather amazing, and indeed convincing. I will take the advice you gave me very seriously and will consider my next move over the coming days. Right now I shall remain focused on my own well being and get my act together. Thank you all so much for sharing your stories, so sorry that many of you experienced this terrible pain.


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## sa58 (Feb 26, 2018)

RIGHT NOW I SHALL REMAIN FOCUSED ON MY OWN
WELL BEING AND GET MY ACT TOGETHER.

I have never been divorced just know family and friends who have.
Many of them go through hell and and pain.

JUST DO NOT FORGET TO TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF
THAT IS MY MAIN CONCERN . REGARDLESS OF
WHAT HAPPENS.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

MovingForward said:


> OP
> 
> If there were a couple things I was certain off when I was in a similar situation it was that is was all my fault, I needed to work on me and there was noway in Hell she was cheating or interested in another man, she just did not have time, always with kids, or me or work, there was just noway for another man to be in the picture.
> 
> ...


Veteran testimony....


----------



## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

sa58 said:


> RIGHT NOW I SHALL REMAIN FOCUSED ON MY OWN
> WELL BEING AND GET MY ACT TOGETHER.
> 
> I have never been divorced just know family and friends who have.
> ...


Taking care of yourself is key. I made so many mistakes and this was another, I did not physically or mentally take of myself and it cost me. 

Currently in great health and feeling good and in shape


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## bambilifts (Mar 21, 2018)

Rider, have you read that book by Athol Kay that everyone here always recommends? I am a woman by the way.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Rider on the Storm said:


> Thanks everyone. Almost all of you seem to be on the same page which I find rather amazing, and indeed convincing. I will take the advice you gave me very seriously and will consider my next move over the coming days. *Right now I shall remain focused on my own well being and get my act together*. Thank you all so much for sharing your stories, so sorry that many of you experienced this terrible pain.


Does this mean waiting around like a puppy, or does it mean detaching, working on bettering yourself and your life?

If the former, you're messing up. If the latter, good for you.

She's cheating on you, btw. And you should move on. But you've heard that; whether you intend to is the question you have to answer. Good luck. I can't do better than you've received so far....


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

@Rider on the Storm ,
75 posts in a day is quite the storm for you. Out of all of it What I remember is that she wanted to just say goodbye forever, and you convinced her to meet again in 30 days. You got that concession by promising her no contact for 30 days. Which was what she wanted in the first place, No Contact with you. She settled for a 30 day guarantee.

All along she has told you what she is interested in. She wants her individual growth. Individual means without you. She already knows what she is going to say in 30 days. I'm pretty sure it will include "individual", I'm also pretty sure it will still mean "without you". 

BTW changing yourself into a raging party animal will not make you happy, or increase her interest in you.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Rider on the Storm said:


> I simply don't see how you can make such claims with so much confidence. Based on what? That she has new girlfriends and is interested in new things? Maybe there is something going on and maybe not, I don't think telling myself she's out there messing around town will do much good either at this point.


They can make it based on experience and education, two elements you do not possess.

You definitely have responsibility for the collapse of your relationship but stop deluding yourself about her.

She is absolutely moving on.


----------



## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Rider on the Storm said:


> I have to stress that this whole NC idea was mine to begin with. She just wanted to say goodbye for good. I suggested we try this as it was obvious that by meeting and discussing our relationship every few days was just doing more damage and she obviously needs space right now. I'm keeping this alive, not her. She is already in a different place mentally, that's why I have low hopes. But cheating, plan B etc, no I really don't think she would do that honestly.


She may not be cheating but the I need time alone and I need to do my own thing says she's checked out. Meeting you is only salving what little guilt she must feel for leaving, but left you she has, so she's taken the biggest step.

Now she's severed the cord what's the most logical progression from this? She will at least explore her options whether it's now or later, while you still think there's a hope in hell after she's told you she's done.

She's told she's done. Believe her then act accordingly.

I'm not for the childish games of hanging up phone calls or being short. Don't hit the gym if you're going to quit after a week because you're trying to impress her.

You do things on your own timetable because waiting in this kind of "I hope she comes back limbo" is hell especially if she starts banging another man.

Work on yourself, but not to show or prove to her you've changed but you do it for self, for confidence and for the next woman in your life whether it be your old woman or the next chick to be a safe partner.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

OP,

What Bob says is good advice.

I would take exception to one of his statements.

Reducing your availability to her is in your best interest.

From what little we know of your life, you've been by her side.... always ready to meet her needs... always available. I suspect a little bit "too available"

Sad as it may seem, women often lose interest in men that are "too available". Men that wait on them.... always nice.

They're not nearly mysterious enough and she loses attraction and ultimately respect.

Reducing availability by being short on phone calls... having plans... .letting texts sit for at least 30 minutes to an hour is simply a strategy to change the perception of the you as a doormat

I don't find that endeavor childish at all. It's in the OP's best interests - however this turns out.

Whether this relationship rekindles or he moves on to a new partner, retaining the respect of your partner - and the mechanics of doing so - are anything but "childish"


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## Rider on the Storm (Mar 21, 2018)

Mr. Nail said:


> @Rider on the Storm ,
> 75 posts in a day is quite the storm for you. Out of all of it What I remember is that she wanted to just say goodbye forever, and you convinced her to meet again in 30 days. You got that concession by promising her no contact for 30 days. Which was what she wanted in the first place, No Contact with you. She settled for a 30 day guarantee.
> 
> All along she has told you what she is interested in. She wants her individual growth. Individual means without you. She already knows what she is going to say in 30 days. I'm pretty sure it will include "individual", I'm also pretty sure it will still mean "without you".
> ...


Thanks. 

Yeah well I am aware of the very slim chances my marriage currently have. I'm also aware that keeping my hope for reconciliation alive means more pain and grief. She is very unstable right now, and I want to give her this space. That's the kind of guy I am and that is who she married. I actually think this is a sign of strength and not a weakness. If after this month I still see no desire to at least start some sort of positive process, I will ask her to start sorting out the final details of us breaking up.

If one or two months of grief can help retain some chance of us being together then this is a risk I am willing to take. This does not mean I will sit around and mope during this time...


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

Rider on the Storm said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Yeah well I am aware of the very slim chances my marriage currently have. I'm also aware that keeping my hope for reconciliation alive means more pain and grief. She is very unstable right now, and I want to give her this space. That's the kind of guy I am and that is who she married. I actually think this is a sign of strength and not a weakness. *If after this month I still see no desire to at least start some sort of positive process, I will ask her to start sorting out the final details of us breaking up.*
> 
> If one or two months of grief can help retain some chance of us being together then this is a risk I am willing to take. This does not mean I will sit around and mope during this time...


You seem to think you have a choice. Take your last sentence, and extend it indefinitely.....


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

Rider on the Storm said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Yeah well I am aware of the very slim chances my marriage currently have. I'm also aware that keeping my hope for reconciliation alive means more pain and grief. She is very unstable right now, and I want to give her this space. That's the kind of guy I am and that is who she married. I actually think this is a sign of strength and not a weakness. If after this month I still see no desire to at least start some sort of positive process, I will ask her to start sorting out the final details of us breaking up.
> 
> If one or two months of grief can help retain some chance of us being together then this is a risk I am willing to take. This does not mean I will sit around and mope during this time...


I hope I don't sound disrespectful here. I don't have the knowledge or experience that others here have so I can't really offer anything significant. 
Also, I still have a lot of mud on me from my mess as I'm still still dealing with it.
So with that being said I just would like to share that I have said to myself countless times....
"If only I would have left the FIRST time she acted like she wanted out....
"If I only would have left after finding out about her first affair....."
"If only I would have left the first time...."

Rip that band-aid off now and get it over with.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

With enough distance she will eventually begin to think of life with others... let her go brother.

Simply file with acceptance, yet even in this there is no easy process as you close these chapters in your life. Only reread the parts of the book that highlight the lessons you haven't learned yet although trust me, those will be bookmarked until understood.

Pay attention and learn quickly...


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Rider on the Storm said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Yeah well I am aware of the very slim chances my marriage currently have. I'm also aware that keeping my hope for reconciliation alive means more pain and grief. She is very unstable right now, and I want to give her this space. That's the kind of guy I am and that is who she married. I actually think this is a sign of strength and not a weakness. If after this month I still see no desire to at least start some sort of positive process, *I will ask her to start sorting out the final details of us breaking up.*
> 
> If one or two months of grief can help retain some chance of us being together then this is a risk I am willing to take. This does not mean I will sit around and mope during this time...


You should do that yourself. Why let her determine your future. Get strong. Don't let weakness define you in this.

She's not a special snowflake and I assure you this isn't the end of the world. Far from it. If you do what's right for you.

The only one who can keep you in this is you.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

If you look it up you will find the seven year itch is a real thing. You will also find it recurs. Your fifteen years is an example. It has something to do with how long it takes a child to be somewhat independent. Not having any children has nothing to do with it.

The book mentioned before is THE MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER. Read it now. It will explain so much from a biological point of view. Don’t even think of dating again until you have read it.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

This is for AFTER the 30 days and she moves on with her life. You grieve and move on. You begin to

be happy, learn about yourself, enjoying life...... it is very common (personal experience here) for the

female to wonder -he is jovial and spry, what am "I" missing out on here- And they make a bee-line

back to you. Be cautious of this.... because it never works the "2nd time around"

I made that mistake twice...granted those were 25 years ago. My XW has wanted us to "rekindle"

since our D. I didn't make that mistake a third time. I hope you never make that mistake, a first time.


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## Canada75 (Jan 15, 2017)

Alright....I went through something similar as most people responding did. If I could turn back time, I would of done a few things differently.
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-...ut-she-needs-space-but-says-she-loves-me.html

I would cut all ties immediately, wouldn't answer the texts that seems so friendly, the phone calls(happy,depressed,or crying) or the emails.
If asked why, I would tell her straight up that we are done. There isn't a marriage unless you're here working on it,PERIOD....drop mic and walk away.
I wouldn't of cried in front of her(a lot of us made that mistake)
I should of taken the advice I got here but I was deep in denial......she wouldn't do that??? 
The whole let's agree not to see others was a good one by her. I asked my wife on dozens of occasions if there was someone else and she looked me dead in the eyes each time with love and spoon fed me bullsh*t and I lapped it up for 6 months because I didn't want to believe someone I loved so much could be so cruel.

I felt everyone here was jaded and angry and scooped the advice of whomever wasn't saying she was having an affair.....until 6 months later when I found her cooking dinner for a co-worker....."he's just a friend".
He was just a work friend she saw everyday, and did everything with. He was a work friend even up to a year until she finally told our son that they like each other. 

She has her soulmate now and I'm left picking up the pieces.....so, PLEASE LISTEN. 

Whether she is having an affair or not, it doesn't matter one bit. She wants space, give it to her like she is dead. That person you loved and had good/bad times with died the minute she asked for that time apart. 
You don't need to explain anything to her because that isn't your wife anymore. Looks like her, smells like her, talks like her but I can tell you she isn't inside anymore. If you choose to say anything to her make it simple, straight to the point, and emotionless.
I'm sure this was posted already but follow to a tee. It isn't to get her back, it's for you....for your future.....to shave off a few years of hurt and pain you may or may not go through.
https://beingabeautifulmess.wordpress.com/the-180/

I loved when I read that it could work out, it could be depression, it could be this or that. I lived on that hope for 6 months. Looking back now and re-reading my post, its just sad how naive I could be. Even though I got advice exactly as i'm giving to you now, I ignored it because I had her on a pedestal and couldn't see she wasn't my wife inside anymore.

You are about to take the emotional ride of your life. The pain and hurt will be life changing. Again, whether she is having an affair or not, file for divorce straight away. Don't tell her as she isn't your wife, have her served and follow through. 

I was told this and just thought, that doesn't make sense....I don't want that, I want my wife and family back....why would some jaded as*hole think that's a good idea?
It's hard to wrap your head around but look at it this way, divorce papers will end it quickly or they will smack your wife back into her body. Those are your only two options or outcomes anyways so why not do it now?

My thought on when I was told that was, If I did that and she was on the fence and thinking about what to do and saw that I filed for divorce that she would say what an as*hole I knew I was right and we are done.....which no one posting on here wants or we wouldn't be posting for advice. The thing is if someone truly loves someone else and they are going to lose them they will try almost anything to get them back....see the problem with the decision you must make?
By making it A or B and those are truly the only outcomes, you take control over the situation and that gives you a huge advantage. The ball is then in her court and it shows her that you won't be manipulated and shows her that you have self respect and dignity. 

I get where your at. You want it all back, I know....I still have that part in me unfortunately and sadly (seeking therapy for that).
Two things will come of this, she will be miraculously returned to her body and will come to her senses(this will include years and years of work, even more if there truly is someone else) or she will say we had a good run and let's just divorce. Either way, you have no say what so ever. She holds all the cards as long as you your hope out weighs your reality.

I also found that unless you've been through this, you can't understand it. So all advice given might be a waste of time. If a friend came to me with a story like this now, I'd know exactly what to do or say but he wouldn't know how to handle it because the mind plays some funny tricks on you so you can cope. Whether you get back with your wife or not, you will re-read your posts in, 6 months, a year..etc and shake your head. Then you will find someone posting something similar and try and reach out as I am now.

Remember, that isn't your wife inside that body. It's hard to imagine that I know. My Exww still shocks me with her behavior....like a teenager with not a care in the world.
Look up,
cheater's script
surviving infidelity 
wayward wives
a good divorce attorney.
Good luck.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

Listen to @Canada75

He realized too late.


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## [email protected] (Mar 1, 2018)

SpinyNorman said:


> Chat rooms tend to become echo chambers, and this one echoes "everyone is having an affair." If your spouse develops lactose intolerance, it's proof she's having an affair.


What ridiculous "reasoning", followed by a lie.

Disproving what people are saying requires you give examples where they were WRONG in their diagnosis. Go ahead. Right here in the thread are examples of people who were in the same kind of denial, who you would have given the same WRONG advice to. 

Furthermore, you expect common symptoms to have a common cause. Calling that an "echo" is not reasoning - that is childish name-calling. Seeing physicians unanimous on the symptoms of pregnancy or geologists on the presence of an oil formation or biologists on the typing of a sample - this is not an "echo". 

It is a lie to say that lactose intolerance results in a diagnosis of an affair here. A flat-out lie. You cannot find one example of that, and you knew it wasn't true when you said it. 



> Maybe she is, maybe not. People are individuals. It's not like posting here demands any qualifications as a counsellor.


That is another insult to the people posting here, not any kind of insight. What they have is literally centuries of collective experience. 

She is having an affair. It does this fellow no favors to sugar coat it.


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## Edmund (Apr 1, 2017)

Riders...Listen to Canada75. Read his heartbreaking story. Learn from his mistake about the true nature of "trial separations". Canada75 even bought or helped buy his wife a condo to use as her love nest. (And he has a son with her.) If your wife, doesn't come back immediately, you are going to be a dog without a bone - an actor out alone. Sorry, :smackshead: that was cruel, but I couldn't help it. Seriously listen to the folks here, if you want any chance of reconciliation.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Rider on the Storm said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Yeah well I am aware of the very slim chances my marriage currently have. I'm also aware that keeping my hope for reconciliation alive means more pain and grief. She is very unstable right now, and I want to give her this space. That's the kind of guy I am and that is who she married. *I actually think this is a sign of strength and not a weakness*. If after this month I still see no desire to at least start some sort of positive process, I will ask her to start sorting out the final details of us breaking up.
> 
> If one or two months of grief can help retain some chance of us being together then this is a risk I am willing to take. This does not mean I will sit around and mope during this time...


It does seem like that doesn't it? 

It is actually called codependency, and it is detrimental to you.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Canada75 said:


> Alright....I went through something similar as most people responding did. If I could turn back time, I would of done a few things differently.
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-...ut-she-needs-space-but-says-she-loves-me.html
> 
> I would cut all ties immediately, wouldn't answer the texts that seems so friendly, the phone calls(happy,depressed,or crying) or the emails.
> ...


Don't know how in the hell I missed your thread. Very glad you are awake now. Your XW is a piece of work...

a pathetic piece.


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

BobSimmons said:


> *You do things on your own timetable because waiting in this kind of "I hope she comes back limbo" is hell especially if she starts banging another man.
> 
> Work on yourself, but not to show or prove to her you've changed but you do it for self, for confidence and for the next woman in your life whether it be your old woman or the next chick to be a safe partner*.



Gold statement


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

Canada75 said:


> Alright....I went through something similar as most people responding did. If I could turn back time, I would of done a few things differently.
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-...ut-she-needs-space-but-says-she-loves-me.html
> 
> I would cut all ties immediately, wouldn't answer the texts that seems so friendly, the phone calls(happy,depressed,or crying) or the emails.
> ...


I love all the advise you get on here, all from experience and we all did it, regretted it and look back and wont to kick ourselves and can't believe we were that Naive, stupid and weak.

I wold love to see someone like OP actually take the advise put it all in motion and create a post in Life after divorce on how we were all right, the advise was perfect and they are so happy with the new lift and the X is a distant memory and the grass is not always greener.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Responses in bold below.




Rider on the Storm said:


> Most of this is false in my case.
> 
> *none of those things individually is proof-positive of an affair. But neither is their lacking proof of fidelity.
> 
> ...


----------



## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

Rider, the ones who have been through it can provide the best insight and advice.

I haven't, but think about this:

"I wonder what my life would be like without you" is the flip side of "I don't think I can live without you" 

The first statement has you as plan B, so if they come back, plan A didn't work. 

I refuse to be a plan B.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Rider on the Storm said:


> Thank you all for your input.
> 
> Alright let's just say there's a 50/50 chance she's cheating in one form or another alright? Let's put this out of the way. *Would love to hear from women for a fresh perspective.*


Ok, woman here. But I don’t think my perspective will be “fresh”. And I think the odds of her cheating are much greater than 50-50...

You should definitely listen to what everyone here is saying.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Rider on the Storm said:


> Thanks for this!
> 
> 
> Listen guys (no women around??), I admit that I have these thoughts. I would be crazy not to. I DID try to look through her phone, browsing history and anything else I could get my hands on before she left. So far no proof but the suspicion is still there. I did see something which I considered flirting at the time, but not something I am willing to throw my marriage overboard for. Until I can prove that something is up I rather take her word for now. However, thank you for making me even more vigilant about this!


You still don’t see it. Your wife has thrown your marriage over. She agreed with the one month NC to end the discussion. Your marriage is already over.


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## SdSurfer (Mar 23, 2018)

Rider, one of the things that always helps in crisis is to talk about it. You have just told my story, which I may or may not elaborate in another thread. That is why I came here, to talk about it because writing has always been cathartic for me. and find a half dozen or so of other experiences just like this.

Everything, with only a few differences, is exactly your story. The critical differences are after 16 years and the same intimacy you describe I kissed her goodbye in the morning and came home from work and . . . poof. Gone. A short note that said to take care of the kitties lol . . . This was Tuesday two weeks ago.

I went insane, through all the range of emotions, and after two weeks decided she was gone and I needed to protect myself, opened a new account and moved enough funds to keep the bills paid and that was the catalyst that made her call me. Both of our minds were going wild with possibilities the other was doing and none of them were true. I told her I would help her and whatever was in the joint account is for her to use (who wants to be with anyone who doesn't want to be with you?) She **says** she doesn't want a divorce but needs to find herself again. That one talk made us both feel better.

I am still a basket case. I haven't slept a good night in two weeks, if I don't get my "stuff" together soon I will likely lose my job. I am at rock bottom right now, a little better after we talked, but still a mess.

In the end it was all me, and that is something I will never forgive myself for. I have never had a counselling session in my life, I avoid the medical industry because they **want** to keep us sick, but at 2 PM today I am meeting someone not to talk about our marriage, not to discuss how she done me wrong, but to work on me. 

My only advice, if it's worth anything, is if you haven't already, get real and authentic with yourself and embrace your part. We present one face to the world and deep down we know what went wrong, and hate what it says about us. Good luck man, I'm not sure where my tale ends but I will never forgive myself.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

SdSurfer said:


> Rider, one of the things that always helps in crisis is to talk about it. You have just told my story, which I may or may not elaborate in another thread. That is why I came here, to talk about it because writing has always been cathartic for me. and find a half dozen or so of other experiences just like this.
> 
> Everything, with only a few differences, is exactly your story. The critical differences are after 16 years and the same intimacy you describe I kissed her goodbye in the morning and came home from work and . . . poof. Gone. A short note that said to take care of the kitties lol . . . This was Tuesday two weeks ago.
> 
> ...


Don't want to thread hijack but why? (Bold) I see what you are saying about the medical industry but you are making one of the best decisions you will ever make in talking to someone.


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

SdSurfer said:


> Rider, one of the things that always helps in crisis is to talk about it. You have just told my story, which I may or may not elaborate in another thread. That is why I came here, to talk about it because writing has always been cathartic for me. and find a half dozen or so of other experiences just like this.
> 
> Everything, with only a few differences, is exactly your story. The critical differences are after 16 years and the same intimacy you describe I kissed her goodbye in the morning and came home from work and . . . poof. Gone. A short note that said to take care of the kitties lol . . . This was Tuesday two weeks ago.
> 
> ...


I was exactly where you are and life has done a 180 and is much better than it was, talk it out as much as possible to make it real so you can accept it, your perception of her, the situation and the relationship will all change over time and you will get past it and look back and realize you are in a better place. 

I never did anti depressants although it was recommended but did take some natural supplements i found on Amazon which seemed to help sleep and mood and the better sleep you get the easier you can deal with the situation I took GABA, 5 htp and l tyrosine. GABA and 5htc in evening and Tyrosine in the day. 

regarding Job speak to your boss best thing i did, people are usually understanding, my Boss noticed and pulled me in his office to ask what the hell was going on, when i told him he was very supportive so hopefully it works out for you.

Feel free to PM me if needed, I have been through this all and made it to the other side and reached happy again,


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

MovingForward said:


> I was exactly where you are and life has done a 180 and is much better than it was, talk it out as much as possible to make it real so you can accept it, your perception of her, the situation and the relationship will all change over time and you will get past it and look back and realize you are in a better place.
> 
> I never did anti depressants although it was recommended but did take some natural supplements i found on Amazon which seemed to help sleep and mood and the better sleep you get the easier you can deal with the situation I took GABA, 5 htp and l tyrosine. GABA and 5htc in evening and Tyrosine in the day.
> 
> ...


A man is not aware he is in Hell.... until he is pulled out, and dipped right back in.


----------



## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

[email protected] said:


> What ridiculous "reasoning", followed by a lie.
> 
> Disproving what people are saying requires you give examples where they were WRONG in their diagnosis. Go ahead. Right here in the thread are examples of people who were in the same kind of denial, who you would have given the same WRONG advice to.
> 
> ...


Lactose intolerance is hyperbole, I'd hoped you'd recognize it. I don't believe I said common symptoms always have a common cause. The professions you mention require qualifications that a chat room does not.


> That is another insult to the people posting here, not any kind of insight. What they have is literally centuries of collective experience.


..experience at what, posting things? That is a very low bar. Of course I said there are no requirements wrt marriage counselling, I will stand by that and even call it an insight.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Rubix Cubed said:


> Or even better yet just file and have her served. Say nothing. If that doesn't shake her out of her fog/MLC then nothing will and you are one step closer to taking the only option you truly have. She's checked out and sooner or later she's going to file anyway, you'll just be miserable in the meantime.


My advice if you go the divorce route is to avoid the contentious divorce route. Lots of people go down this road with plans of getting even and the lawyers just wind up with everything. However you're going to treat each other post-divorce, you have a big joint incentive to be reasonable about splitting things up until the divorce is final.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

SdSurfer said:


> Rider, one of the things that always helps in crisis is to talk about it. You have just told my story, which I may or may not elaborate in another thread. That is why I came here, to talk about it because writing has always been cathartic for me. and find a half dozen or so of other experiences just like this.
> 
> Everything, with only a few differences, is exactly your story. The critical differences are after 16 years and the same intimacy you describe I kissed her goodbye in the morning and came home from work and . . . poof. Gone. A short note that said to take care of the kitties lol . . . This was Tuesday two weeks ago.
> 
> ...


Classic cheater phrase.

The English translation, roughly, is...

“I want to see how things go with Mark, so please don’t divorce me just yet.

Also, please continue to make your paycheck available to me.

Oh, and don’t forget to pay the bills.”


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> Classic cheater phrase.
> 
> The English translation, roughly, is...
> 
> ...


Gus,

Is Weightlifter's Evidence Thread handy?


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

ReturntoZero said:


> Gus,
> 
> Is Weightlifter's Evidence Thread handy?


I don’t have the link handy, but viewing his list of opened threads should bring it up.
@weightlifter


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> I don’t have the link handy, but viewing his list of opened threads should bring it up.
> 
> @weightlifter


Thanks


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

I'll stop posting this over and over again when people stop living in fantasy land:



> "I've seen so many spouses lie about affairs, that when one spouse wants a separation, my best guess is that he or she is having an affair. I'm right almost every time. Why would anyone need to be alone to sort things out? It makes much more sense to think that being separated makes it easier to be with their lover. Granted, there are many good reasons for a separation, such as physical or extreme mental abuse. But of all those I've seen separate, most have had lovers in the wings."
> 
> -Dr Harley Willard


Coping with Infidelity: Beginning (Part 1)

Colouring your hair is a reasonable response to a mid-life crisis, not cutting out on your spouse.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Rider,

Have you checked your phone bill yet?


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Sir, right now you do not know her motivations. I have seen this in my practice a few times over the years. First, I will discount the two I knew were having affairs. In both cases, the betrayed partner, wreaked havoc on their spouse. (One came back after being unceremoniously dumped, thinking that his wife had not tweaked to the affair, idiotically he came back to his house, to find that she had leased it to another family, and she was long gone. (She did surface long enough to hit him with the divorce that took him down severely.)

I have seen one particular case, wherein the wife had a serious mid-life crisis. Serious mental issues, but she did not want to work through them with her husband. She asked for a separation. He did not want this at all, but she kept telling him that once she worked through everything, they could get back together. She also was a master procrastinator. So, a year into the separation, he asks her out to coffee. He asked her if she had come to any decisions as to when they were getting back together, and she was blase about it. So, he told her that he could no longer wait for her. That stopped her in her tracks. She expected him to live alone and celibate until she made up her mind. He went on, that he was done wasting time, she knew that he could not live alone, but she expected him to be this good and noble guy who would live alone and pine for her. He told her that he started seeing people and met a wonderful woman. They were living together now for a few months, and he decided he wanted to marry her. His wife had no words for him. This was so totally stupid on her part. She was an emotional cripple, could not handle her life and was often overwhelmed with small things. The only thing she managed to convey was that this was not supposed to work this way, she asked why he could not wait. He said he wanted a marriage and a family, and the longer she made him wait, the more he was convinced that she could never make up her mind, and even then, he suspected that this may recur, and he wanted no further part in this. She is still my client. The part about wanting to be alone? Not anymore. She is now in therapy, something that she never wanted. She thought that she could work through her difficulties, but her way, ended her marriage. She hopes one day to find another guy who is as good as her husband was. She accepts that she lost her marriage. She was completely at fault.


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