# Is it Okay for Christians to Masturbate?



## 352744

I'm pretty new to this site, so apologies if this has been addressed before and I haven't seen it. But I want perspectives from other professing Christians on the topic of masturbation. I'll try not to be too explicit or vulgar 😅. 

I have read respected Christian scholars and counselors on the topic of masturbation and they have differing views. One view is thoroughly represented in this post: If Your Right Hand Causes You to Sin: Ten Biblical Reflections on Masturbation

The other view is from Wayne Grudem who believes that masturbation is not _always_ sinful and cautions against making prohibition of it a "rule" since the Bible itself doesn't do that. He thinks adding commands not given in Scripture is a potentially very dangerous idea. He also thinks that a lot of people, young men especially, will reach the point of being so discouraged in their walk with the Lord because of their failure to abstain from masturbation that it will be a serious problem for their faith. That said, Grudem believes that mental images of naked people and accompanying fantasies are sinful based on Jesus's words in Matthew 5:27-30 (v. 28 specifically).

So my situation is that I have a pretty high sex drive but I'm unmarried. I believe in the Bible and that sex outside of marriage between man and wife is unwise and sinful. So I masturbate to relieve sexual tension. The problem is, I agree with both of the views on Christians and masturbation above 😅. Obviously they're in conflict with one another. I admit that lust is something I struggle with as a Christian, but I do try to fight it daily. But as I said I have a high drive and I masturbate almost daily, though without visual aids, just imagination.

So I'm hoping for some clarity and biblically based evaluations of this issue. I doubt we'll conclusively resolve it here but any well-meaning posts are welcome.


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## DownByTheRiver

I no longer Christian but I had a Christian upbringing although it wasn't a very strict one, and I certainly remember that premarital sex was frowned upon but I don't remember anything about anyone saying masturbation was off-limits. 

I tend to look at it like this. If you're Christian you believe that God was a creator. If he created people to be horny whether they were married or not, then if you really believe he was the architect of man, then that would suggest he doesn't care what you did about that.. I figure if he was really a stickler for no masturbation, the heat of created people to only get horny after they were married and only for their spouse. Which is nowhere close to reality.


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## jonty30

Good Friend said:


> I'm pretty new to this site, so apologies if this has been addressed before and I haven't seen it. But I want perspectives from other professing Christians on the topic of masturbation. I'll try not to be too explicit or vulgar 😅.
> 
> I have read respected Christian scholars and counselors on the topic of masturbation and they have differing views. One view is thoroughly represented in this post: If Your Right Hand Causes You to Sin: Ten Biblical Reflections on Masturbation
> 
> The other view is from Wayne Grudem who believes that masturbation is not _always_ sinful and cautions against making prohibition of it a "rule" since the Bible itself doesn't do that. He thinks adding commands not given in Scripture is a potentially very dangerous idea. He also thinks that a lot of people, young men especially, will reach the point of being so discouraged in their walk with the Lord because of their failure to abstain from masturbation that it will be a serious problem for their faith. That said, Grudem believes that mental images of naked people and accompanying fantasies are sinful based on Jesus's words in Matthew 5:27-30 (v. 28 specifically).
> 
> So my situation is that I have a pretty high sex drive but I'm unmarried. I believe in the Bible and that sex outside of marriage between man and wife is unwise and sinful. So I masturbate to relieve sexual tension. The problem is, I agree with both of the views on Christians and masturbation above 😅. Obviously they're in conflict with one another. I admit that lust is something I struggle with as a Christian, but I do try to fight it daily. But as I said I have a high drive and I masturbate almost daily, though without visual aids, just imagination.
> 
> So I'm hoping for some clarity and biblically based evaluations of this issue. I doubt we'll conclusively resolve it here but any well-meaning posts are welcome.


Origen, one of the Church Fathers, castrated himself in hopes of laying to rest his thoughts of lust.
He later reported that it didn't work, so even going as far as removing your hormones will not stop it.

God has promised forgiveness everytime you confess your sin, so you can have confidence when you fail to live the best life, you can ask forgiveness and carry on.
I believe that, as long as you do not involve anybody else, like pornography or a female, it's really a non-issue.

Just keep to as many wholesome activities as you can and, when you fail, ask forgiveness and get back to keeping to wholesome activities.
Much of masturbation is really about being disconnected, so one area you need to address is finding ways to becoming more sociable.
Determine the areas that you need to improve on and work on them. 
Clubs, interests. The more sociable you can be, the less time and opportunity you have to start focusing on your inadequacies, which drives you to sexual lusts.


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## 352744

DownByTheRiver said:


> I no longer Christian but I had a Christian upbringing although it wasn't a very strict one, and I certainly remember that premarital sex was frowned upon but I don't remember anything about anyone saying masturbation was off-limits.
> 
> I tend to look at it like this. If you're Christian you believe that God was a creator. If he created people to be horny whether they were married or not, then if you really believe he was the architect of man, then that would suggest he doesn't care what you did about that.. I figure if he was really a stickler for no masturbation, the heat of created people to only get horny after they were married and only for their spouse. Which is nowhere close to reality.


I disagree with the second paragraph... I don't think God creating people suggests he doesn't care what they do with their bodies or hormone-driven desires. But though I disagree I appreciate you taking the time to read my post. Can I ask how long you were a Christian?


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## 352744

jonty30 said:


> Origen, one of the Church Fathers, castrated himself in hopes of laying to rest his thoughts of lust.
> He later reported that it didn't work, so even going as far as removing your hormones will not stop it.
> 
> God has promised forgiveness everytime you confess your sin, so you can have confidence when you fail to live the best life, you can ask forgiveness and carry on.
> I believe that, as long as you do not involve anybody else, like pornography or a female, it's really a non-issue.
> 
> Just keep to as many wholesome activities as you can and, when you fail, ask forgiveness and get back to keeping to wholesome activities.
> Much of masturbation is really about being disconnected, so one area you need to address is finding ways to becoming more sociable.
> Clubs, interests. The more sociable you can be, the less time and opportunity you have to start focusing on your inadequacies, which drives you to sexual lusts.


I like your idea of being more sociable. Do you have any suggestions?

Also, I agree with you that involving pornography or other women would definitely be wrong. What do you believe the biblical answer is to mental sexual acts during masturbation? Is that wrong?


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## jonty30

Good Friend said:


> I like your idea of being more sociable. Do you have any suggestions?
> 
> Also, I agree with you that involving pornography or other women would definitely be wrong. What do you believe the biblical answer is to mental sexual acts during masturbation? Is that wrong?


What kind of skills do you want to learn?
Do you cook? Do a cooking class.
If you develop interests, you'll have a reason for people to want to associate with you.

Learn to cook.
Learn to present yourself better and more confidently.
Learn your domestic skills, until you're the queen or king of cleaning. 
Musical instruments.

There is so much out there to do, instead of wallowing in your basement and focusing on your inadequacies.


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## DownByTheRiver

Good Friend said:


> I disagree with the second paragraph... I don't think God creating people suggests he doesn't care what they do with their bodies or hormone-driven desires. But though I disagree I appreciate you taking the time to read my post. Can I ask how long you were a Christian?


Just growing up until I became an adult. I grew up in a very strict fundamentalist Baptist community but that was not the church I attended, but it was the predominant Church and they owned most of our little suburb and now have a church the size of a huge arena.


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## 352744

jonty30 said:


> What kind of skills do you want to learn?
> Do you cook? Do a cooking class.
> If you develop interests, you'll have a reason for people to want to associate with you.
> 
> Learn to cook.
> Learn to present yourself better and more confidently.
> Learn your domestic skills, until you're the queen or king of cleaning.
> Musical instruments.
> 
> There is so much out there to do, instead of wallowing in your basement and focusing on your inadequacies.


I do like art and music. I could learn to develop either my drawing or piano skills.


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## 352744

DownByTheRiver said:


> Just growing up until I became an adult. I grew up in a very strict fundamentalist Baptist community but that was not the church I attended, but it was the predominant Church and they owned most of our little suburb and now have a church the size of a huge arena.


I understand. I hear of a lot of people in that situation growing up.


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## jonty30

Good Friend said:


> I do like art and music. I could learn to develop either my drawing or piano skills.


The main thing is to put yourself in a sociable situation as much as you can.


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## Beach123

So what you want. Stop allowing others to make the rules for you.

The main rule is - cause the least harm to yourself and others. 

Don’t live in shame and guilt. Be happy.


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## Young at Heart

Prior to and during puberty, the nuns at the all girls Catholic school taught my future wife that masturbation was a mortal sin any time of year. That is one perspective.

Another perspective is that you have free will. What you are proposing is not a violation of the 10 Commandments. Still, why not skip a holy day. Still you are the one that needs to decide and use the free will you were given. Your posting the question implies you have questions about doing that on a Holy day.


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## Diana7

We are both Christians and can't see where the Bible says masturbation is wrong. Like anything else it can become an obsession but as long as porn isn't involved I can't see what is wrong. 
If you can masturbate without the mental images, just on the physical sensations even better. 
Trouble is that people get married so much later today which makes it hard for Christians. 

Hopefully you have a good supportive church with Christian friends.


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## Diana7

Young at Heart said:


> Prior to and during puberty, the nuns at the all girls Catholic school taught my future wife that masturbation was a mortal sin any time of year. That is one perspective.
> 
> Another perspective is that you have free will. What you are proposing is not a violation of the 10 Commandments. Still, why not skip a holy day. Still you are the one that needs to decide and use the free will you were given. Your posting the question implies you have questions about doing that on a Holy day.


The RC does largely teach that. It's not Biblical though.


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## Beach123

It’s hard to take the RC religious guidelines anymore. Many of the men have in power have harmed many many young children, especially boys.
It’s not a believable basis to believe the guidelines they may preach - and not live with those rules as ones they follow themselves.

Use your own conscience.


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## jonty30

Beach123 said:


> It’s hard to take the RC religious guidelines anymore. Many of the men have in power have harmed many many young children, especially boys.
> It’s not a believable basis to believe the guidelines they may preach - and not live with those rules as ones they follow themselves.
> 
> Use your own conscience.


The RC church is rooted in gnosticism, where we as material beings are are supposed to work towards shedding our material bonds and becoming holy and spiritual. That's not the we are as created beings. WHom we are, as created beings is exactly how we were meant to be.


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## Diana7

Beach123 said:


> It’s hard to take the RC religious guidelines anymore. Many of the men have in power have harmed many many young children, especially boys.
> It’s not a believable basis to believe the guidelines they may preach - and not live with those rules as ones they follow themselves.
> 
> Use your own conscience.


Best to go by what God says in the Bible rather than what the RC church decides is right or wrong.


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## hamadryad

What type of God would bestow these powerful urges and desires, yet expect you to practically lose your mind because you can't find a woman willing to accommodate? And even if you did find a woman, that might mean(depending on your drive) she would have to basically be available numerous times a day. What if that doesn't work for her? Isn't religion about being kind and respectful?

I've always been high drive but teens and 20's ? Forget it. At least now I have a bit more control then during those times. It was a tool for survival at times. 

At the end if the day I guess you have to follow your beliefs and if they forbid it then I really don't know what advice anyone can give. Perhaps what another poster mentioned. Do what you need to do then just confess later. As long as no one else is affected , then perhaps that's the most reasonable compromise. I dunno I wish you well.


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## Mr. Nail

As you have demonstrated, Christians don't agree on masturbation. Obviously there is enough scattered inference in the bible to justify creating a rule. That can be said of many things. Jonty's advice to involve yourself in other things is good and practical. There are many things you can focus your attention on that will make you a more Christ like person. As a Christian you should work towards following his example.


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## Tested_by_stress

Is it ok to masturbate? .......Beats me!


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## Diana7

hamadryad said:


> What type of God would bestow these powerful urges and desires, yet expect you to practically lose your mind because you can't find a woman willing to accommodate? And even if you did find a woman, that might mean(depending on your drive) she would have to basically be available numerous times a day. What if that doesn't work for her? Isn't religion about being kind and respectful?
> 
> I've always been high drive but teens and 20's ? Forget it. At least now I have a bit more control then during those times. It was a tool for survival at times.
> 
> At the end if the day I guess you have to follow your beliefs and if they forbid it then I really don't know what advice anyone can give. Perhaps what another poster mentioned. Do what you need to do then just confess later. As long as no one else is affected , then perhaps that's the most reasonable compromise. I dunno I wish you well.


Well thankfully Christianity doesnt forbid it, but the idea of doing something wrong because you can confess later goes against what repentance means.


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## Benbutton

If it helps I found out it doesn't cause blindness.


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## OnTheFly

The average hand can wrap nicely around the average penis, and the average human arm is the proper length to reach comfortably. Same for the ladies.

I don't see any explicit prohibition in either the Old or New Covenants, and the implicit passages some use are, IMO, weak.


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## Numb26

Benbutton said:


> If it helps I found out it doesn't cause blindness.


Or hairy palms


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## Diceplayer

Here are several articles on the subject that might help. He addresses both sides of the question.
Why masturbation is a problem, whether you're married or single - Uncovering Intimacy


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## rugswept

There is nothing about it in the Bible. Nothing. 
It's not what you're doing, it's what you're thinking that may be wrong.


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## Talker67

OK?
Gosh, i HOPE so!


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## ShatteredKat

Can you define what "christian" is in terms of people as individuals?


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## pastasauce79

I read "Christmas" instead of "Christians"


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## 346745

God gave us sex to enjoy. That includes self stimulation. I think in many ways, it's actually good for someone to vent off sexual tension, to feel good. And, isn't it better to pleasure yourself than force yourself on someone else? I don't think the Bible says you can't pleasure yourself. Just be sure to use plenty of lube. And have Kleenex at the ready.


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## Diana7

Longtime Hubby said:


> God gave us sex to enjoy. That includes self stimulation. I think in many ways, it's actually good for someone to vent off sexual tension, to feel good. And, isn't it better to pleasure yourself than force yourself on someone else? I don't think the Bible says you can't pleasure yourself. Just be sure to use plenty of lube. And have Kleenex at the ready.


I would say that forcing yourself on someone else is always wrong.


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## Diana7

ShatteredKat said:


> Can you define what "christian" is in terms of people as individuals?


Those who believe Jesus is the Son of God and that He died and rose again to bring us back to God. In a nutshell.
Followers of Jesus.


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## 346745

Diana7 said:


> I would say that forcing yourself on someone else is always wrong.


Capt. Obvious award to you. Of course it’s wrong. Didn’t think I needed to spell that out.


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## manwithnoname

Longtime Hubby said:


> Capt. Obvious award to you. Of course it’s wrong. Didn’t think I needed to spell that out.


While you're at it, can you clarify if you're rubbing one off in public, or privately? 
Just curious.


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## 352744

ShatteredKat said:


> Can you define what "christian" is in terms of people as individuals?


A Christian is defined as one who has been born again, placed their faith in Christ alone for salvation, follows him for the rest of their lives in obedience and repentance. There is more that could be said but that's a good definition to start with I think.


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## 352744

Beach123 said:


> So what you want. Stop allowing others to make the rules for you.
> 
> The main rule is - cause the least harm to yourself and others.
> 
> Don’t live in shame and guilt. Be happy.


Allowing others to make rules can be a good thing because authority is a good thing. And just because an action causes less harm doesn't make it the right one. But your last point on not living in shame and guilt I agree with as a follower of Jesus. 

Thank you for reading and commenting, I appreciate it.😄


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## 352744

Diana7 said:


> We are both Christians and can't see where the Bible says masturbation is wrong. Like anything else it can become an obsession but as long as porn isn't involved I can't see what is wrong.
> If you can masturbate without the mental images, just on the physical sensations even better.
> Trouble is that people get married so much later today which makes it hard for Christians.
> 
> Hopefully you have a good supportive church with Christian friends.


So do you follow the interpretation that masturbation with mental images is wrong according to Jesus's teaching in Matthew 5:28? Admittedly, I have tried to masturbate without mental imagery and have largely failed... Not meaning to be descriptive of my internal thoughts. But anyway, that's where my guilt comes in from the situation, the using mental images and the disobedience that seems to be according to Matthew 5. 

Also, if you don't mind me asking, do you think it's wrong to have mental images of distinct people? Like celebrities for example?


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## Blondilocks

As a life-long (71 years) Christian, I really don't think God is looking down and wrinkling the nose when Johnny has his hands down his pants. Now, if you're ogling your neighbor's wife while doing so it is a different story.


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## 352744

Diceplayer said:


> Here are several articles on the subject that might help. He addresses both sides of the question.
> Why masturbation is a problem, whether you're married or single - Uncovering Intimacy


Thank you for posting additional resources, I enjoy gathering information.


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## 352744

rugswept said:


> There is nothing about it in the Bible. Nothing.
> It's not what you're doing, it's what you're thinking that may be wrong.


Is having mental images something that's wrong to think about?


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## Diceplayer

Good Friend said:


> Thank you for posting additional resources, I enjoy gathering information.


Gather information, pray about it and be open to the leading of the Spirit. Asking others for opinions will give you opinions from both sides. It's like drinking, some Christians say it's okay and some say it's not. Same with this subject so it's better to just talk to God about it.


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## Skruddgemire

Good Friend said:


> I have read respected Christian scholars and counselors on the topic of masturbation and they have differing views. One view is thoroughly represented in this post: If Your Right Hand Causes You to Sin: Ten Biblical Reflections on Masturbation


One of the things you need to consider is not about Christianity but about your particular brand of Christianity and their views on it.

Christianity is not one overreaching umbrella that covers everything. There are multiple sects of it many of them having differing views on things.

For example Baptists are painted as being against homosexuality while Lutheranism doesn't have much of an issue about it. And even then in the sects themselves there are differences of views on what a sin is. There are Baptist Churches that are vehemently against homosexuality while there are others who aren't as bothered over it. Same as my example of Lutherans. Some branches are for it, others against it.

But let's look at a recent saying of arguably the most powerful of the Christian faiths...Catholicism and the Pope. Recently (last couple of days) Pope Francis said that sex out of marriage is not the worst sin you can do. There are far worse transgressions.









Pope Francis says extramarital sex sins aren't that 'serious'


The Pope has ranked some of the sins described in the Bible, saying one isn't too serious.




www.nzherald.co.nz





So if diddling someone else's nethers isn't all that bad...diddling your own bits is no worse than that and likely even less so. Monty Python's "Every Sperm is Sacred" notwithstanding. However that opinion can change the next time we get a new Pope. Look how Pope Benedict was. Any man who considers himself "The Rottweiler of God" isn't likely to bend from arch-conservative ways.

So that is what it boils down to. Asking me makes no sense since I'm no longer Christian (Wiccan) and when I was Christian I started out Catholic, then went to The Way Ministry, then went Episcopalian (Catholic Light: All the ritual, half the guilt), then agnostic and finally pagan. What you need to do is talk to your own denomination and see what they think and if you're a unaligned Christian...considering that some do and some do not, it's all going to fall on your own beliefs and how the odd wank fits into it.


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## Skruddgemire

Tested_by_stress said:


> Is it ok to masturbate? .......Beats me!


<facepalm>
Really? 
<shakes head while chuckling>


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## Diana7

Diceplayer said:


> Gather information, pray about it and be open to the leading of the Spirit. Asking others for opinions will give you opinions from both sides. It's like drinking, some Christians say it's okay and some say it's not. Same with this subject so it's better to just talk to God about it.


As long as what you think God says to you is inline with what He says in the Bible.


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## DownByTheRiver

Diana7 said:


> As long as what you think God says to you is inline with what He says in the Bible.


Also remember that it was men interpreting God's word who wrote the Bible, which is why it is sometimes contradictory.


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## Diana7

DownByTheRiver said:


> Also remember that it was men interpreting God's word who wrote the Bible, which is why it is sometimes contradictory.


We are fortunate today in that we can read different versions of the Bible and also see what the original language said.


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## DownByTheRiver

Diana7 said:


> We are fortunate today in that we can read different versions of the Bible and also see what the original language said.


True. Which version (that you can read in English) do you consider the most original or authentic?


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## Diana7

I


DownByTheRiver said:


> True. Which version (that you can read in English) do you consider the most original or authentic?


l love the amplified version because it often gives more than one meaning if one alone isn't enough.


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## 352744

DownByTheRiver said:


> Also remember that it was men interpreting God's word who wrote the Bible, which is why it is sometimes contradictory.


I believe in divine inspiration and biblical authority and do not believe the Bible has true contradictions. There are many _apparent_ contradictions, but upon further study these can be explained and are found to not be true contradictions. I also take great comfort in the fact that the original text of the Bible has been copied down through the centuries with greater than 99% accuracy, more than any other book from the ancient world.

I don't want this to come across as condescending or rude. I'm just explaining my viewpoint on the matter.


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## 352744

Diana7 said:


> I
> l love the amplified version because it often gives more than one meaning if one alone isn't enough.


I like the ESV, CSB and NASB. I sometimes reference the KJV but not often. ESV is my favorite.


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## 352744

Skruddgemire said:


> One of the things you need to consider is not about Christianity but about your particular brand of Christianity and their views on it.
> 
> Christianity is not one overreaching umbrella that covers everything. There are multiple sects of it many of them having differing views on things.
> 
> For example Baptists are painted as being against homosexuality while Lutheranism doesn't have much of an issue about it. And even then in the sects themselves there are differences of views on what a sin is. There are Baptist Churches that are vehemently against homosexuality while there are others who aren't as bothered over it. Same as my example of Lutherans. Some branches are for it, others against it.
> 
> But let's look at a recent saying of arguably the most powerful of the Christian faiths...Catholicism and the Pope. Recently (last couple of days) Pope Francis said that sex out of marriage is not the worst sin you can do. There are far worse transgressions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pope Francis says extramarital sex sins aren't that 'serious'
> 
> 
> The Pope has ranked some of the sins described in the Bible, saying one isn't too serious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.nzherald.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So if diddling someone else's nethers isn't all that bad...diddling your own bits is no worse than that and likely even less so. Monty Python's "Every Sperm is Sacred" notwithstanding. However that opinion can change the next time we get a new Pope. Look how Pope Benedict was. Any man who considers himself "The Rottweiler of God" isn't likely to bend from arch-conservative ways.
> 
> So that is what it boils down to. Asking me makes no sense since I'm no longer Christian (Wiccan) and when I was Christian I started out Catholic, then went to The Way Ministry, then went Episcopalian (Catholic Light: All the ritual, half the guilt), then agnostic and finally pagan. What you need to do is talk to your own denomination and see what they think and if you're a unaligned Christian...considering that some do and some do not, it's all going to fall on your own beliefs and how the odd wank fits into it.


Can I ask what made you exchange Christianity for your current system? I've studied other religions (as a Christian, not a prospective adherent of the other beliefs) and have found that Christianity is the most consistent within itself and provides the most coherent picture of the world. I'm curious what your thinking on the matter is.

But to address the original point of this thread😅 I disagree with many Catholic viewpoints because they are usually consistent with biblical teaching. I care less about individual denominations than I do the Bible's own words. But I can understand your viewpoint, as many denominations (mine included) do have different interpretations on secondary and tertiary doctrines.


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## 352744

Diana7 said:


> As long as what you think God says to you is inline with what He says in the Bible.


True. Any conclusion that's inconsistent with the Bible must be false. It's nice to see other Christians here 🙂


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## 352744

Diceplayer said:


> Gather information, pray about it and be open to the leading of the Spirit. Asking others for opinions will give you opinions from both sides. It's like drinking, some Christians say it's okay and some say it's not. Same with this subject so it's better to just talk to God about it.


Prayer is definitely an important part of any process. Thank you.


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## ConanHub

Good Friend said:


> I'm pretty new to this site, so apologies if this has been addressed before and I haven't seen it. But I want perspectives from other professing Christians on the topic of masturbation. I'll try not to be too explicit or vulgar 😅.
> 
> I have read respected Christian scholars and counselors on the topic of masturbation and they have differing views. One view is thoroughly represented in this post: If Your Right Hand Causes You to Sin: Ten Biblical Reflections on Masturbation
> 
> The other view is from Wayne Grudem who believes that masturbation is not _always_ sinful and cautions against making prohibition of it a "rule" since the Bible itself doesn't do that. He thinks adding commands not given in Scripture is a potentially very dangerous idea. He also thinks that a lot of people, young men especially, will reach the point of being so discouraged in their walk with the Lord because of their failure to abstain from masturbation that it will be a serious problem for their faith. That said, Grudem believes that mental images of naked people and accompanying fantasies are sinful based on Jesus's words in Matthew 5:27-30 (v. 28 specifically).
> 
> So my situation is that I have a pretty high sex drive but I'm unmarried. I believe in the Bible and that sex outside of marriage between man and wife is unwise and sinful. So I masturbate to relieve sexual tension. The problem is, I agree with both of the views on Christians and masturbation above 😅. Obviously they're in conflict with one another. I admit that lust is something I struggle with as a Christian, but I do try to fight it daily. But as I said I have a high drive and I masturbate almost daily, though without visual aids, just imagination.
> 
> So I'm hoping for some clarity and biblically based evaluations of this issue. I doubt we'll conclusively resolve it here but any well-meaning posts are welcome.


Ok, I have a very high drive, always have, and I'm married. I masturbate a lot because I often travel for work and also my wife can't physically have as much sex as me.

I have a bunch of sexual fantasies and scenarios that I think about and I obviously don't picture anyone in real life besides my wife.

Lusting after a real woman who isn't your wife is a sin.

Releasing tension, in and of itself, isn't but you should be careful to discipline your body occasionally to exert control and not develop poor sexual habits.

Real women require not being selfish and learning what she likes in bed so make sure you don't get too caught up or committed to your fantasy life


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## jonty30

DownByTheRiver said:


> True. Which version (that you can read in English) do you consider the most original or authentic?


Almost all Bibles are translated straight from the same original Hebrew and Greek writings. 
So, they are all equally valid in that respect.
The only difference between them is that some are written to be more of a transliteration and others are written to make the message contemporary.
The only thing that really happens with new scholarly Bibles is that language scholars aim to corrext errors in language and make the new Bible more accurate to the message that was conveyed in the day the original writings were created.

I use NKJV for my study and casual reading.

Other Bibles, like easy reading Bibles, are simplified versions of scholarly Bibles.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

jonty30 said:


> Almost all Bibles are translated straight from the same original Hebrew and Greek writings.
> So, they are all equally valid in that respect.
> The only difference between them is that some are written to be more of a transliteration and others are written to make the message contemporary.
> The only thing that really happens with new scholarly Bibles is that language scholars aim to corrext errors in language and make the new Bible more accurate to the message that was conveyed in the day the original writings were created.
> 
> I use NKJV for my study and casual reading.
> 
> Other Bibles, like easy reading Bibles, are simplified versions of scholarly Bibles.


What they taught us is that various rulers amended the Bible to their convenience in order to have more power over their people.


----------



## Numb26

I am not a Christian but I see nothing wrong with rubbing one out if the need arises


----------



## ConanHub

pastasauce79 said:


> I read "Christmas" instead of "Christians"


OMG!!!!!🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## jonty30

DownByTheRiver said:


> What they taught us is that various rulers amended the Bible to their convenience in order to have more power over their people.


What I am aware of what was done was that the Bible was kept in the Latin language and the people were kept illiterate, so they could be told whatever it is that rulers wanted them to know. However, I'm not aware of any purposefully mistranslated Scriptures themselves. Scholars have been pretty good about ensuring translations are as close to the original works as possible. 

One of the things done, to ensure accurate translations is the rule that new translations must start with the original writings first, before any adaptions are adopted to make the work contemporary.


----------



## jonty30

Numb26 said:


> I am not a Christian but I see nothing wrong with rubbing one out if the need arises


If you're single, your fantasy partner should not be anybody you know, out of respect for them and their right to their own body. 
Make up a partner in your mind, if you have to. 

If you're married, it should only be done if your partner cannot be cajoled into any bedroom couple time.


----------



## Numb26

jonty30 said:


> If you're single, your fantasy partner should not be anybody you know, out of respect for them and their right to their own body.
> Make up a partner in your mind, if you have to.
> 
> If you're married, it should only be done if your partner cannot be cajoled into any bedroom couple time.


I always use the Golden Girls 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## jonty30

Numb26 said:


> I always use the Golden Girls 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## maquiscat

Good Friend said:


> I'm pretty new to this site, so apologies if this has been addressed before and I haven't seen it. But I want perspectives from other professing Christians on the topic of masturbation. I'll try not to be too explicit or vulgar 😅.
> 
> I have read respected Christian scholars and counselors on the topic of masturbation and they have differing views. One view is thoroughly represented in this post: If Your Right Hand Causes You to Sin: Ten Biblical Reflections on Masturbation
> 
> The other view is from Wayne Grudem who believes that masturbation is not _always_ sinful and cautions against making prohibition of it a "rule" since the Bible itself doesn't do that. He thinks adding commands not given in Scripture is a potentially very dangerous idea. He also thinks that a lot of people, young men especially, will reach the point of being so discouraged in their walk with the Lord because of their failure to abstain from masturbation that it will be a serious problem for their faith. That said, Grudem believes that mental images of naked people and accompanying fantasies are sinful based on Jesus's words in Matthew 5:27-30 (v. 28 specifically).
> 
> So my situation is that I have a pretty high sex drive but I'm unmarried. I believe in the Bible and that sex outside of marriage between man and wife is unwise and sinful. So I masturbate to relieve sexual tension. The problem is, I agree with both of the views on Christians and masturbation above 😅. Obviously they're in conflict with one another. I admit that lust is something I struggle with as a Christian, but I do try to fight it daily. But as I said I have a high drive and I masturbate almost daily, though without visual aids, just imagination.
> 
> So I'm hoping for some clarity and biblically based evaluations of this issue. I doubt we'll conclusively resolve it here but any well-meaning posts are welcome.


Ultimately, you are going to have to have a "conversation" (however you want to interpret that) between you and God, whether directly or via the Holy Spirit. Between Y/you, you have to determine what is God's path for you, what is and isn't allowed. You can listen to human advice all day long, but it will be as conflicted as your two sources. One of the rules of thumb that I live by is "there is no one true way". And I use the sheer number of denominations as proof of that. Most of them profess to be the right and only way. I'm not going to tell you whether it is sinful or not. It may be that God has said no to you and yes to me. Or vice versa. Only you can determine that with God. No other human can actually tell you. Many will claim they can, but they don't actually speak for God.


----------



## Diana7

maquiscat said:


> Ultimately, you are going to have to have a "conversation" (however you want to interpret that) between you and God, whether directly or via the Holy Spirit. Between Y/you, you have to determine what is God's path for you, what is and isn't allowed. You can listen to human advice all day long, but it will be as conflicted as your two sources. One of the rules of thumb that I live by is "there is no one true way". And I use the sheer number of denominations as proof of that. Most of them profess to be the right and only way. I'm not going to tell you whether it is sinful or not. It may be that God has said no to you and yes to me. Or vice versa. Only you can determine that with God. No other human can actually tell you. Many will claim they can, but they don't actually speak for God.


Except that He will never contradict what He has said in the Bible. So if He said something isn't permitted in the Bible, He isn't going to then tell a person that it's ok. 
That is our plumbline. There is one true way, through Jesus Christ and His word. 

Most denominations only differ on what I would call the less important things. 
I have mixed with people from many denominations, they mostly agree on the important things. The basics of our faith. Also on things like morality, marriage, faithfulness, sexual sin.


----------



## 352744

maquiscat said:


> Ultimately, you are going to have to have a "conversation" (however you want to interpret that) between you and God, whether directly or via the Holy Spirit. Between Y/you, you have to determine what is God's path for you, what is and isn't allowed. You can listen to human advice all day long, but it will be as conflicted as your two sources. One of the rules of thumb that I live by is "there is no one true way". And I use the sheer number of denominations as proof of that. Most of them profess to be the right and only way. I'm not going to tell you whether it is sinful or not. It may be that God has said no to you and yes to me. Or vice versa. Only you can determine that with God. No other human can actually tell you. Many will claim they can, but they don't actually speak for God.


Just because there is a large number of denominations does not mean that there is not one true way. A multiplicity of denominations speaks to our inability as finite humans to correctly interpret and wisely apply the truth. Just because multiple groups have differing ideas while each claim to know _the_ truth does not mean we should conclude there is not one, objectively right answer. If several math teachers each claimed different answers to the equation 4 +4 = ? we would not use the "sheer number" of their multiplicity of claims as evidence that there is not one true answer. Your argumentation is flawed.

Further, I believe that God's own self is the standard of morality and that God is immutable. Morality is objective and unchanging. Your advice is consistent with moral relativism, which is not a tenable position either experientially or, more importantly, logically. Relativism is self-contradictory and an illogical system.

Finally, many Christian denominations agree on the core doctrines of Christianity (the Trinity and Christ's resurrection to name a couple) and reach differing conclusions on less important doctrines. I in fact have learned and shared time with people of other denominations with unity because of our common faith, though we would disagree on the less important matters.

I know you were trying to help and I appreciate you taking the time to read my post.


----------



## Beach123

Good Friend said:


> Is having mental images something that's wrong to think about?


Why can’t you decide these things for yourself?
Why would you let someone else sway your conscience?
Your own mind knows what’s right or wrong for you.


----------



## maquiscat

Diana7 said:


> Except that He will never contradict what He has said in the Bible. So if He said something isn't permitted in the Bible, He isn't going to then tell a person that it's ok.
> That is our plumbline. There is one true way, through Jesus Christ and His word.
> 
> Most denominations only differ on what I would call the less important things.
> I have mixed with people from many denominations, they mostly agree on the important things. The basics of our faith. Also on things like morality, marriage, faithfulness, sexual sin.


"Hey don't murder anyone, but go and kill off every man woman and child in that city I'm sending you to conquer, even if they are not fighters." We've already gone back and forth on the whole interpretation thing, and I pointed it out again above. Masturbation is never directly addressed, so in the end it is up for interpretation.


----------



## 352744

maquiscat said:


> "Hey don't murder anyone, but go and kill off every man woman and child in that city I'm sending you to conquer, even if they are not fighters." We've already gone back and forth on the whole interpretation thing, and I pointed it out again above. Masturbation is never directly addressed, so in the end it is up for interpretation.


I think you're referring to God's command to Israel to wipe out the Canaanites. God has the right to give life and kill, and Israel was God's instrument of justice at that time. So while it is wrong for one human being to murder another, in that instance of the Old Testament God was carrying out his own divine prerogatives through Israel. That is not an example of God conflicting morals because the killing is from God through Israel, not from one human being to another. And as the perfectly righteous creator of all who rules all things, God has the right to kill whomever is deserving.

These articles helped me when I read them some time ago. I hope they are beneficial to you as well:








What Made It Okay for God to Kill Women and Children In the Old Testament?


John Piper defends God's right to give and take life whenever and however he pleases.




www.desiringgod.org









__





The Moral Argument and the Slaughter of the Canaanites | Reasonable Faith


I have listened to and read a plethora of your (and that of your colleague Frank Turek) presentations of the moral argument for god. I have just read your answer to the question on this site regarding the slaughter of the Canaanites. I perceive significant problems with these arguments and the...




www.reasonablefaith.org


----------



## Diana7

maquiscat said:


> "Hey don't murder anyone, but go and kill off every man woman and child in that city I'm sending you to conquer, even if they are not fighters." We've already gone back and forth on the whole interpretation thing, and I pointed it out again above. Masturbation is never directly addressed, so in the end it is up for interpretation.


I agree on masturbation, but as I said God will never tell us that something us ok when His teaching in the Bible says it's not.


----------



## 352744

Beach123 said:


> Why can’t you decide these things for yourself?
> Why would you let someone else sway your conscience?
> Your own mind knows what’s right or wrong for you.


I'm not letting others decide for me. I want other carefully considered evaluations of the issue so I can gather more information and round out my understanding. I am very capable of deciding things for myself, but I like hearing other researched options as well.


----------



## Diana7

Good Friend said:


> I'm not letting others decide for me. I want other carefully considered evaluations of the issue so I can gather more information and round out my understanding. I am very capable of deciding things for myself, but I like hearing other researched options as well.


Plus as Christians it's good to know what God says about things isn't it. After all, He is very wise.


----------



## 352744

Diana7 said:


> Plus as Christians it's good to know what God says about things isn't it. After all, He is very wise.


Absolutely. All opinions and beliefs, no matter how carefully researched or articulated, must be tested against the Bible. If it's inconsistent with Scripture it should not be accepted as true or be put into practice.


----------



## Diana7

Good Friend said:


> Absolutely. All opinions and beliefs, no matter how carefully researched or articulated, must be tested against the Bible. If it's inconsistent with Scripture it should not be accepted as true or be put into practice.


That's how we try and learn yes.


----------



## 346745

manwithnoname said:


> While you're at it, can you clarify if you're rubbing one off in public, or privately?
> Just curious.


Highly suggested you do that in private unless you want to be arrested. Lmao


----------



## CatholicDad

If your spidey-sense is tingling- I think you’d better listen to it.

Only devils, fools, and Catholic-bashers could possibly read the entirety of the Bible and say “masturbate yourself silly, friend”. This was never specifically mentioned in the Bible because no one would have ever guessed how spoiled, weak, and lustful mankind would become. If you could go ask Jesus, his disciples, the early church fathers, and even any theologian prior to the last 100 years they’d all agree- masturbation is sinful.

And yeah, your Johnson won’t shrivel, your prostate won’t explode with cancer… all lies from Gehenna too.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Straight to the point, barring it's replacing a healthy, good, and very frequent sex life with an SO I don't believe if one masturbates it's a direct path to death and devastation. 

Sin, not, or yes, or whatever, I don't believe God wants us to lose our mind worrying about that one thing so much.


----------



## 346745

CatholicDad said:


> If your spidey-sense is tingling- I think you’d better listen to it.
> 
> Only devils, fools, and Catholic-bashers could possibly read the entirety of the Bible and say “masturbate yourself silly, friend”. This was never specifically mentioned in the Bible because no one would have ever guessed how spoiled, weak, and lustful mankind would become. If you could go ask Jesus, his disciples, the early church fathers, and even any theologian prior to the last 100 years they’d all agree- masturbation is sinful.
> 
> And yeah, your Johnson won’t shrivel, your prostate won’t explode with cancer… all lies from Gehenna too.


God has bigger fish to fry


----------



## 346745

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Straight to the point, barring it's replacing a healthy, good, and very frequent sex life with an SO I don't believe if one masturbates it's a direct path to death and devastation.
> 
> Sin, not, or yes, or whatever, I don't believe God wants us to lose our mind worrying about that one thing so much.


Good post. It’s a release, a God-given release.


----------



## CatholicDad

Longtime Hubby said:


> God has bigger fish to fry


I disagree my brother. Jesus said it was adulterous just to look on another with lust. He also said to cut off your right hand if it causes you to sin. Clearly these both speak almost directly to masturbation.


----------



## Tested_by_stress

CatholicDad said:


> I disagree my brother. Jesus said it was adulterous just to look on another with lust. He also said to cut off your right hand if it causes you to sin. Clearly these both speak almost directly to masturbation.


Looks like i'm good to go then with me being left handed and all.


----------



## 346745

CatholicDad said:


> I disagree my brother. Jesus said it was adulterous just to look on another with lust. He also said to cut off your right hand if it causes you to sin. Clearly these both speak almost directly to masturbation.


Does Jesus ever say don't play with yourself? There would be a lot of handless people in this world.


----------



## 346745

Tested_by_stress said:


> Looks like i'm good to go then with me being left handed and all.


I try to jazz it up. Left now and then, right now and then.


----------



## 346745

CatholicDad said:


> I disagree my brother. Jesus said it was adulterous just to look on another with lust. He also said to cut off your right hand if it causes you to sin. Clearly these both speak almost directly to masturbation.


Lust is pretty much the starting point for about 90 percent of relationships in this world


----------



## ConanHub

CatholicDad said:


> I disagree my brother. Jesus said it was adulterous just to look on another with lust. He also said to cut off your right hand if it causes you to sin. Clearly these both speak almost directly to masturbation.


You are really misusing scripture. You are engaging in eisegesis.

It is adultery of the heart to look at a woman and lust for her. No problems there.

You then placed your bias into the second scripture you referenced. You believe masturbating to be a sin which scripture does not back up. 

Scripture must be interpreted by scripture. It is impossible to know anything about God without His revelation.


----------



## CatholicDad

Longtime Hubby said:


> Lust is pretty much the starting point for about 90 percent of relationships in this world


Attraction and lust are very different.

Attraction= Normal, healthy, not sinful
Lust= guy with penis/porn in hand… Or guy staring up/down like a creep.


----------



## 346745

CatholicDad said:


> Attraction and lust are very different.
> 
> Attraction= Normal, healthy, not sinful
> Lust= guy with penis/porn in hand… Or guy staring up/down like a creep.


No. It's not a guy with a penis in his hand. It's thinking, I'd really love to be with that woman. Staring up and down? How the heck do you think father acted when he first saw your mother?


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

CatholicDad said:


> Attraction and lust are very different.
> 
> Attraction= Normal, healthy, not sinful
> Lust= guy with penis/porn in hand… Or guy staring up/down like a creep.


Not sure if I see a difference. Attraction just seems like a nicer word for lust. However, I don't think there is anything wrong about lusting about one's own wife, just not someone else's or a single woman.

Easier said than done, though, especially if your wife isn't very "pliable" at the time and your eyes divert to some 20 something in something that could only generously be called clothing.


----------



## CatholicDad

Longtime Hubby said:


> No. It's not a guy with a penis in his hand. It's thinking, I'd really love to be with that woman. Staring up and down? How the heck do you think father acted when he first saw your mother?


Lust is defined as “intense sexual desire”. So if you’re looking at someone with “intense sexual desire” then per Jesus it is sinful.

I didn’t feel that was when I met/dated my wife. She was pretty and had a sweater on… I was attracted to her just like God intended… certainly wasn’t immediately having “intense sexual desire”…. That came later…

Obviously, men are imperfect, sinful… however we can and should refrain from stroking ourselves as this is a *willful* act of impurity. A willful act of impurity is much worse than just seeing a woman in her bikini at the beach. To the extent your will is involved is the extent to which it offends God. Philosophy 101….

Masturbation is a deliberate act that involves someone stirring up their imagination to actually generate lust “intense sexual desire” and then taking physical steps to bring that desire to fulfillment. It is a sad theft of our most precious gift of our procreative sexuality. Clearly condemned in the Bible… all reputable theologians and philosophers would agree.


----------



## 346745

CatholicDad said:


> Lust is defined as “intense sexual desire”. So if you’re looking at someone with “intense sexual desire” then per Jesus it is sinful.
> 
> I didn’t feel that was when I met/dated my wife. She was pretty and had a sweater on… I was attracted to her just like God intended… certainly wasn’t immediately having “intense sexual desire”…. That came later…
> 
> Obviously, men are imperfect, sinful… however we can and should refrain from stroking ourselves as this is a *willful* act of impurity. A willful act of impurity is much worse than just seeing a woman in her bikini at the beach. To the extent your will is involved is the extent to which it offends God. Philosophy 101….
> 
> Masturbation is a deliberate act that involves someone stirring up their imagination to actually generate lust “intense sexual desire” and then taking physical steps to bring that desire to fulfillment. It is a sad theft of our most precious gift of our procreative sexuality. Clearly condemned in the Bible… all reputable theologians and philosophers would agree.


What did you do when you woke with “morning wood” from your teens till marriage? Pray that it would go away?


----------



## CatholicDad

Longtime Hubby said:


> What did you do when you woke with “morning wood” from your teens till marriage? Pray that it would go away?


I wasn’t raised Catholic so did my share of masturbating. However as part of my conversion I heard our Lord’s words… learned men can live without it. In fact, it makes marriage more true and joyful. I’ve done my share of abstaining for reasons of my wife’s health… I endured, had many wet dreams (not sinful), run many miles, lifted heavy things and enjoyed many hobbies awaiting my passionate, marital sex life to return 😉. I’ve suffered many temptations and pray for deliverance. Aren’t all Christians called to “take up our cross”?


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

CatholicDad said:


> I wasn’t raised Catholic so did my share of masturbating. However as part of my conversion I heard our Lord’s words… learned men can live without it. In fact, it makes marriage more true and joyful. I’ve done my share of abstaining for reasons of my wife’s health… I endured, had many wet dreams (not sinful), run many miles, lifted heavy things and enjoyed many hobbies awaiting my passionate, marital sex life to return 😉. I’ve suffered many temptations and pray for deliverance. Aren’t all Christians called to “take up our cross”?


They are. (called to take up our cross).

Here's the hazard you may be falling into @CatholicDad , diluting the discussion from your topic.


----------



## 346745

CatholicDad said:


> I wasn’t raised Catholic so did my share of masturbating. However as part of my conversion I heard our Lord’s words… learned men can live without it. In fact, it makes marriage more true and joyful. I’ve done my share of abstaining for reasons of my wife’s health… I endured, had many wet dreams (not sinful), run many miles, lifted heavy things and enjoyed many hobbies awaiting my passionate, marital sex life to return 😉. I’ve suffered many temptations and pray for deliverance. Aren’t all Christians called to “take up our cross”?


Do you whip yourself with cat o’ nine tails if you ever feel lust?


----------



## CatholicDad

Anyone that runs off to masturbate every time they feel a tingle of sexual frustration… ain’t “taking up their cross” very well.


----------



## 346745

CatholicDad said:


> Anyone that runs off to masturbate every time they feel a tingle of sexual frustration… ain’t “taking up their cross” very well.


I, for one, do not "run off to masturbate every time," I doubt many do. But now and then, sure, one needs a release. It's called being human.


----------



## 346745

Longtime Hubby said:


> Do you whip yourself with cat o’ nine tails if you ever feel lust?


answer the question, do you whip yourself?


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Longtime Hubby said:


> No. It's not a guy with a penis in his hand. It's thinking, I'd really love to be with that woman. Staring up and down? How the heck do you think father acted when he first saw your mother?


I know for sure I was lusting for my W when we first met. You could've bottled that and powered your car for a month!

Over 38 years ago. We still enjoy each other very regularly, three times this weekend and this morning before work. Ymmv but in this period of life we have the time and space to do so, and we appreciate the fact we're in a good spot.


----------



## 346745

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I know for sure I was lusting for my W when we first met. You could've bottled that and powered your car for a month!
> 
> Over 38 years ago. We still enjoy each other very regularly, three times this weekend and this morning before work. Ymmv but in this period of life we have the time and space to do so, and we appreciate the fact we're in a good spot.


That's fantastic


----------



## 346745

Longtime Hubby said:


> I, for one, do not "run off to masturbate every time," I doubt many do. But now and then, sure, one needs a release. It's called being human.


And, there's more to being a Christian than denying self-pleasure. Way more.


----------



## Diana7

CatholicDad said:


> If your spidey-sense is tingling- I think you’d better listen to it.
> 
> Only devils, fools, and Catholic-bashers could possibly read the entirety of the Bible and say “masturbate yourself silly, friend”. This was never specifically mentioned in the Bible because no one would have ever guessed how spoiled, weak, and lustful mankind would become. If you could go ask Jesus, his disciples, the early church fathers, and even any theologian prior to the last 100 years they’d all agree- masturbation is sinful.
> 
> And yeah, your Johnson won’t shrivel, your prostate won’t explode with cancer… all lies from Gehenna too.


Yet Jesus never mentioned it.


----------



## Diana7

CatholicDad said:


> I disagree my brother. Jesus said it was adulterous just to look on another with lust. He also said to cut off your right hand if it causes you to sin. Clearly these both speak almost directly to masturbation.


Umm no they don't. You can masturbate without porn etc. He was talking about sin generally.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Longtime Hubby said:


> And, there's more to being a Christian than denying self-pleasure. Way more.


That's a key point. There's so much more.


----------



## Tested_by_stress

It's one thing to drink the koolaid. It's another to take a bath in it.


----------



## CatholicDad

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> That's a key point. There's so much more.


True, but we can’t grow if we can’t root out basic sins…. we become slaves to sin.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

Diana7 said:


> Umm no they don't. You can masturbate without porn etc. He was talking about sin generally.


I don't understand the difference here. Is it less a sin to masturbate with mental imagery than to porn? I mean what are people suppose to think of when they masturbate, basket weaving?


----------



## Personal

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I mean what are people suppose to think of when they masturbate, basket weaving?


Sure. if that's their thing.

Anyway I did a search for it on a. fetish website, and a few people have it listed as a fetish. Although to be fair, they probably just like basket weaving as a general thing.

That said whatever rocks ones boat.


----------



## Personal

CatholicDad said:


> Attraction and lust are very different.
> 
> Attraction= Normal, healthy, not sinful
> Lust= guy with penis/porn in hand… Or guy staring up/down like a creep.





CatholicDad said:


> Lust is defined as “intense sexual desire”. So if you’re looking at someone with “intense sexual desire” then per Jesus it is sinful.


I've certainly felt that plenty of times, including on first sight with several women. One thing for sure when I met my wife, and she was new to our office. My first thoughts were extremely lustful, since I thought I would like to **** her in all sorts of wanton ways.

Fortunately for my wife and I, through being together for 25½ years, we still both enjoy each other very often with lots of lust.



> I didn’t feel that was when I met/dated my wife. She was pretty and had a sweater on… I was attracted to her just like God intended… certainly wasn’t immediately having “intense sexual desire”


I'm sorry, that you didn't feel that on first sight.



> …. That came later…


If lust “intense sexual desire” came later for you. Then what I have quoted below means (to channel Brian's mum), you're a very naughty boy.



CatholicDad said:


> Lust is defined as “intense sexual desire”. So if you’re looking at someone with “intense sexual desire” then per Jesus it is sinful.


Given that, do you ever feel like you have to twist yourself into a pretzel, so you can follow your faith?



> Masturbation is a deliberate act that involves someone stirring up their imagination to actually generate lust “intense sexual desire” and then taking physical steps to bring that desire to fulfillment. It is a sad theft of our most precious gift of our procreative sexuality. Clearly condemned in the Bible… all reputable theologians and philosophers would agree.


hmmm... Not always. I mean some people masturbate in their sleep, so in such instances it's certainly not a conscious and deliberate act. Plus there are also plenty of times when some people, masturbate without stirring up their imagination lustfully, since they just want to rub one out to relieve that itch.



CatholicDad said:


> I endured, had many wet dreams (not sinful), run many miles, lifted heavy things and enjoyed many hobbies awaiting my passionate, marital sex life to return 😉.


Perhaps if you and your wife felt lust for each other in the beginning and more lust throughout your time together, there would have been no need to endure or wait for your marital sex life to return.


----------



## Personal

Good Friend said:


> So I'm hoping for some clarity and biblically based evaluations of this issue. I doubt we'll conclusively resolve it here but any well-meaning posts are welcome.


Rather than getting bogged down in other people's interpretations on what is okay or not, Why don't you just ask Jesus directly for an answer to your question?


----------



## DudeInProgress

1. It’s ok.
2. Ask your pastor.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

CatholicDad said:


> I disagree my brother. Jesus said it was adulterous just to look on another with lust. He also said to cut off your right hand if it causes you to sin. Clearly these both speak almost directly to masturbation.


A preacher a few centuries ago took that a step further. He was walking home from church and was approached by a prostitute which caused him arousal. He went home and castrated himself. I guess we can take things in scripture and make them too literal.

For instance, the cutting off of the right hand could as easily be applied to theft or abuse. Or in your case it could mean masturbation and porn. But to say it was specific in it's reference to masturbation is a stretch. Even though I do agree that it isn't something that can be supported from Christian teaching regardless of whether it mentions it specifically in the Bible. Even if it isn't a sin per se (or maybe it is sexual immorality?), it can produce sinful desires or thinking which are specifically addressed in the Bible.


----------



## 346745

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> A preacher a few centuries ago took that a step further. He was walking home from church and was approached by a prostitute which caused him arousal. He went home and castrated himself. I guess we can take things in scripture and take them too literally.
> 
> For instance, the cutting off of the right hand could as easily be applied to theft or abuse. Or in your case it could mean masturbation and porn. But to say it was specific in it's reference to masturbation is a stretch. Even though I do agree that it isn't something that can be supported from Christian teaching regardless of whether it mentions it specifically in the Bible. Even if it isn't a sin per se, it can produce sinful desires or thinking which are specifically addressed in the Bible.


Yikes. That's one shepherd we do not want leading a flock. I don't know any man could do that to himself. Totally insane. I mean, he's a man who would have a natural response to her. Which brings to mind - and I do risk a huge response to this - but Jesus was human. He was a man ... "The DaVinci Code" addresses this. And you've have to kind of wonder, don't you? I mean he was 33 when he was put to death. We don't know anything much about him from the his time as a boy in the temple until age 30. I'm sure growing up he talked back to Mary and Joseph, didn't do his chores, goofed off as a kid.Then he grew up and ... There. That'll stir up a kinda quiet Dec. 21st. Catholic Dad's head just exploded.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

Longtime Hubby said:


> Yikes. That's one shepherd we do not want leading a flock. I don't know any man could do that to himself. Totally insane. I mean, he's a man who would have a natural response to her. Which brings to mind - and I do risk a huge response to this - but Jesus was human. He was a man ... "The DaVinci Code" addresses this. And you've have to kind of wonder, don't you? I mean he was 33 when he was put to death. We don't know anything much about him from the his time as a boy in the temple until age 30. I'm sure growing up he talked back to Mary and Joseph, didn't do his chores, goofed off as a kid.Then he grew up and ... There. That'll stir up a kinda quiet Dec. 21st. Catholic Dad's head just exploded.


If you aren't a believer and don't believe the Bible is divinely inspired, then you can fancy all sorts of ideas about Jesus. What we know from scripture is he was 100% man and 100% God. He was not just a man, because man is doomed to sin. Jesus was the perfect sacrifice since he did not sin.

If you are not a Christian though, you can believe whatever you want. However, if you want to speak scripturally, you are wrong.


----------



## ConanHub

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I don't understand the difference here. Is it less a sin to masturbate with mental imagery than to porn? I mean what are people suppose to think of when they masturbate, basket weaving?


I use my wife and different concepts and situations with no one specific.


----------



## CatholicDad

Personal said:


> Perhaps if you and your wife felt lust for each other in the beginning and more lust throughout your time together, there would have been no need to endure or wait for your marital sex life to return.


You know nothing of my marriage. I have probably five times as many children as you, don’t use artificial means of birth control, and my wife had cancer- not to mention I’ve traveled extensively for business. I’m certain my wife and I are more passionate for each other… porn/masturbation is your backup “lover”, not mine.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

ConanHub said:


> I use my wife and different concepts and situations with no one specific.


My imagination sucks so I would have to use porn. However, I gave it up for good about a month ago in order to become a better Christian and Husband. If my Wife is not inclined for whatever reason, I guess I'll just take a cold shower and cry myself to sleep at night 😥


----------



## CatholicDad

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> My imagination sucks so I would have to use porn. However, I gave it up for good about a month ago in order to become a better Christian and Husband. If my Wife is not inclined for whatever reason, I guess I'll just take a cold shower and cry myself to sleep at night 😥


I’m happy for you brother. Cold showers don’t help but killing yourself in the weight room or on a 10 mile run might. 😆 … you’ll cry a little less maybe..


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

CatholicDad said:


> I’m happy for you brother. Cold showers don’t help but killing yourself in the weight room or on a 10 mile run might. 😆 … you’ll cry a little less maybe..


I do have a row machine in my garage gathering cobwebs...


----------



## ConanHub

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> My imagination sucks so I would have to use porn. However, I gave it up for good about a month ago in order to become a better Christian and Husband. If my Wife is not inclined for whatever reason, I guess I'll just take a cold shower and cry myself to sleep at night 😥


I read a lot and that helps imagination.

Good on you for stopping porn though.


----------



## 346745

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> My imagination sucks so I would have to use porn. However, I gave it up for good about a month ago in order to become a better Christian and Husband. If my Wife is not inclined for whatever reason, I guess I'll just take a cold shower and cry myself to sleep at night 😥


Just need inspiration now and then. Yes, that goes for wife and I.


----------



## Personal

CatholicDad said:


> You know nothing of my marriage. I have probably five times as many children as you, don’t use artificial means of birth control, and my wife had cancer- not to mention I’ve traveled extensively for business. I’m certain my wife and I are more passionate for each other… porn/masturbation is your backup “lover”, not mine.





CatholicDad said:


> I endured, had many wet dreams (not sinful), run many miles, lifted heavy things and enjoyed many hobbies *awaiting my passionate, marital sex life to return* 😉.


I can only go by the words you write, so if you write what I have quoted above and other things as you have done in the past as well, that your marital sex life has been very limited at different times. I feel I ought to give you the benefit of the doubt and try to believe what you claim of your own sexual relationship within your marriage. Or would you prefer it for me not to believe what you write about yourself?

That said regarding lust and sins of the flesh, you don't have to worry about it anymore, since according to your Pope, sins of the flesh really aren't that bad after all.

*Pope Francis says ‘sins of the flesh’ aren’t that ‘serious’ - New York Post*

*POPE SAYS SEX OUTSIDE MARRIAGE IS ‘NOT THE MOST SERIOUS SIN’ - The Independent*

*Pope Francis says sex outside marriage is 'not the most serious' sin - The Daily Mail*

So given your Popes say so, you can now feel free to lust away.

On the other hand according to your Pope, having pride and hatred is a far greater threat to your immortal soul.


----------



## Personal

CatholicDad said:


> I have probably five times as many children as you


Wow fifteen children, you must love having to drive a 17 seater bus. And although that wouldn't be my cup of tea, if that's what rocks your boat enjoy yourself.


----------



## C.C. says ...

Christmas is as good a day for it as any, I reckon...


----------



## 346745

C.C. says ... said:


> Christmas is as good a day for it as any, I reckon...


In the grand scheme of things, someone pleasuring themself is not a big deal.


----------



## C.C. says ...

Longtime Hubby said:


> In the grand scheme of things, someone pleasuring themself is not a big deal.


Exactly. My body my choice, eh lol? If God hadn’t known we’d be masturbating, why did he give us the urges in the first place? To solely procreate? Nah. That’s like giving a kid a big stick of yummy cotton candy and expecting him not to eat it.


----------



## 346745

C.C. says ... said:


> Exactly. My body my choice, eh lol? If God hadn’t known we’d be masturbating, why did he give us the urges in the first place? To solely procreate? Nah. That’s like giving a kid a big stick of yummy cotton candy and expecting him not to eat it.


Plus, the Almighty knew that men and women simply need that physical release now and then! Go for it!


----------



## Skruddgemire

352744 said:


> Can I ask what made you exchange Christianity for your current system? I've studied other religions (as a Christian, not a prospective adherent of the other beliefs) and have found that Christianity is the most consistent within itself and provides the most coherent picture of the world. I'm curious what your thinking on the matter is.


Honestly, probably because I question things that do not make sense to me and the fact that no one was willing/able to answer them made me slowly disconnect with religion.

Original Sin was a huge one for me. Ezekiel 18:20 tells us, “The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son." Yet I'm burdened with a load of sin that was the result of someone thousands of years in the past? Why?

Don't try to answer that, I'm long past caring.

But those inconsistencies kept cropping up, no one bothered to help me understand (which I kinda thought was the priest's job), and so the distance grew. The gulf widened.

I never went athestic over it all, I was for a while a deist. I believed in something, but was having a time finding a "what" that fit into my personal feelings.

Then I saw the Wiccan Rede and it resonated like something else ever had for me. The final line of "Eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill: An ye harm none, do what ye will."

Well THAT caught my eye. That was as good a summation of my personal ethical and moral subroutines. I kept railing to the universe "I'm not harming anyone, why can't I do this?" And so I studied, and the more I did, the more I liked. It was not an exchange, but more of finally finding the slot I fit in without having to try to wedge myself in like I did with the other religions.


----------



## Northern.Guy

352744 said:


> I'm pretty new to this site, so apologies if this has been addressed before and I haven't seen it. But I want perspectives from other professing Christians on the topic of masturbation. I'll try not to be too explicit or vulgar 😅.
> 
> I have read respected Christian scholars and counselors on the topic of masturbation and they have differing views. One view is thoroughly represented in this post: If Your Right Hand Causes You to Sin: Ten Biblical Reflections on Masturbation
> 
> The other view is from Wayne Grudem who believes that masturbation is not _always_ sinful and cautions against making prohibition of it a "rule" since the Bible itself doesn't do that. He thinks adding commands not given in Scripture is a potentially very dangerous idea. He also thinks that a lot of people, young men especially, will reach the point of being so discouraged in their walk with the Lord because of their failure to abstain from masturbation that it will be a serious problem for their faith. That said, Grudem believes that mental images of naked people and accompanying fantasies are sinful based on Jesus's words in Matthew 5:27-30 (v. 28 specifically).
> 
> So my situation is that I have a pretty high sex drive but I'm unmarried. I believe in the Bible and that sex outside of marriage between man and wife is unwise and sinful. So I masturbate to relieve sexual tension. The problem is, I agree with both of the views on Christians and masturbation above 😅. Obviously they're in conflict with one another. I admit that lust is something I struggle with as a Christian, but I do try to fight it daily. But as I said I have a high drive and I masturbate almost daily, though without visual aids, just imagination.
> 
> So I'm hoping for some clarity and biblically based evaluations of this issue. I doubt we'll conclusively resolve it here but any well-meaning posts are welcome.


When determining whether something is sinful, start with these three questions.
1. Is it forbidden in the Bible?
2. Is it unloving? (hurting anyone)
3. Is it unnatural? 
4. Is it damaging to health?

In these things, I personally would answer no. But it’s possible for yes answers in regard to being unloving or unhealthy in some cases. For someone single, my advice would be to train your thoughts. Even fantasy land can easily cross the line. Train yourself to abstain until you can enjoy your body without fantasy. There is benefit in training and growing in self control. In this way if you can enjoy it for what it is, it can be a release, and at the same time something you can thank the Lord for, without guilt. We are sexual beings. But avoid acting against conscience.


----------



## jenny_1

Christianity is a large monotheistic religion, encompasses many denominations, and as far as I know there is no restriction that I've ever found. At least I hope not or I'm in BIG trouble. Now, that might not be the case for Catholics or Protestants or other branches of Christianity. But for a non-denominational Christian, I think you're good to go. Me too!


----------



## CharlieParker

jenny_1 said:


> Christianity is a large monotheistic religion, encompasses many denominations, and as far as I know there is no restriction that I've ever found. At least I hope not or I'm in BIG trouble. Now, that might not be the case for Catholics or Protestants or other branches of Christianity. But for a non-denominational Christian, I think you're good to go. Me too!


Are there any Christian restrictions on the use of pornographic materials whilst engaging in self care?


----------



## jonty30

jenny_1 said:


> Christianity is a large monotheistic religion, encompasses many denominations, and as far as I know there is no restriction that I've ever found. At least I hope not or I'm in BIG trouble. Now, that might not be the case for Catholics or Protestants or other branches of Christianity. But for a non-denominational Christian, I think you're good to go. Me too!


Catholicism is a gnostic faith. 
It views the flesh as unclean and the flesh is denied in order to purify the spirit.
It's not necessary a healthy application of Christianity.


----------



## jenny_1

CharlieParker said:


> Are there any Christian restrictions on the use of pornographic materials whilst engaging in self care?


Fortunately I suspect not, only because pornography probably hadn't yet been invented when the Bible was written.


----------



## CharlieParker

Paging @CatholicDad, paging CatholicDad, CatholicDad return to this thread, stat.


----------



## Personal

jenny_1 said:


> Fortunately I suspect not, only because pornography probably hadn't yet been invented when the Bible was written.


The Ancient Greeks and Romans had plenty of pornography. While the Ancient Egyptians weren’t shy about sexual depictions either.

To the point that the creation of the term “pornography” was a British response, in part to their shock at finding wall to wall smut, throughout Pompeii following its excavation.


----------



## jenny_1

Personal said:


> The Ancient Greeks and Romans had plenty of pornography. While the Ancient Egyptians weren’t shy about sexual depictions either.
> 
> To the point that the creation of the term “pornography” was a British response, to their shock at finding wall to wall smut, throughout Pompeii following its excavation.


That is true! But I find it difficult to believe the erotic depictions I've seen from that era would be of any benefit to anyone interested in pleasuring themselves sexually. And hence in my opinion not considered porn.


----------



## TexasMom1216

CharlieParker said:


> Paging @CatholicDad, CatholicDad return to this thread, stat.


I think you have to say his name 3 times…

😉😂😂😂😂 👻


----------



## Personal

jenny_1 said:


> That is true! But I find it difficult to believe the erotic depictions I've seen from that era would be of any benefit to anyone interested in pleasuring themselves sexually. And hence in my opinion not considered porn.


Cool, maybe your argument can help assuage the god botherers out there, who masturbate to hentai (if it isn’t porn). Since that stuff is no different to any other media, that has shown explicit depictions of sex before the invention of the Daguerreotype.


----------



## jenny_1

Personal said:


> Cool, maybe your argument can help assuage the god botherers out there...


Always glad to help!


----------



## Skruddgemire

jenny_1 said:


> That is true! But I find it difficult to believe the erotic depictions I've seen from that era would be of any benefit to anyone interested in pleasuring themselves sexually. And hence in my opinion not considered porn.


That might be because you're looking at it from the light and filters of today's society. We can find plenty of people willing to do damn near anything and be willing to have it photographed and/or filmed to be put out there on the internet. With that, it can be hard to imagine what anyone would see in a lithograph, a wood carving, a painting, etc. 

It would be rather like getting a young someone today to understand the entertainment we used to get when we only had 4-5 broadcast channels. Or what people got out of listening to the radio and radio plays before the days of television. And before that what we did without any broadcast entertainment. 

And the answer we would give them is "We had to make do" or "We had to use our imaginations to keep us entertained."

Which...is rather like what we had to do back before the camera and the film camera. This is a good link. It's an article called "The History of Pornography: From the Paleolithic to Pornhub" and it covers a lot of what people used to have to do to get off back then. It was pretty much an aid to imagination. Where we can actually see the goods today, back then they used something to remind them of what's out there (or in the case of younger folks, sparks the imagination of what could be available when they finally get to a point where they can "give their end away".

And even those "laughable by our standards" examples of porn were considered a problem. The Victorians were so freaking prudish that it's claimed that tablecloths were invented to keep men from getting horned up over the sensual curves of table legs. I doubt that's true since I'm getting contrary information in that regard...but the fact that it's assigned to them, true or not) is an example of how uptight they were over sex in general and a few "naughty parchments" were a scandal when someone died and the folks dealing with the deceased's belongings found their "wank material".

So yes, even though not near to our standards of porn, people were still "having one off the wrist" over them.


----------



## jenny_1

Skruddgemire said:


> So yes, even though not near to our standards of porn....


Sounds like progress!


----------



## 346745

Skruddgemire said:


> That might be because you're looking at it from the light and filters of today's society. We can find plenty of people willing to do damn near anything and be willing to have it photographed and/or filmed to be put out there on the internet. With that, it can be hard to imagine what anyone would see in a lithograph, a wood carving, a painting, etc.
> 
> It would be rather like getting a young someone today to understand the entertainment we used to get when we only had 4-5 broadcast channels. Or what people got out of listening to the radio and radio plays before the days of television. And before that what we did without any broadcast entertainment.
> 
> And the answer we would give them is "We had to make do" or "We had to use our imaginations to keep us entertained."
> 
> Which...is rather like what we had to do back before the camera and the film camera. This is a good link. It's an article called "The History of Pornography: From the Paleolithic to Pornhub" and it covers a lot of what people used to have to do to get off back then. It was pretty much an aid to imagination. Where we can actually see the goods today, back then they used something to remind them of what's out there (or in the case of younger folks, sparks the imagination of what could be available when they finally get to a point where they can "give their end away".
> 
> And even those "laughable by our standards" examples of porn were considered a problem. The Victorians were so freaking prudish that it's claimed that tablecloths were invented to keep men from getting horned up over the sensual curves of table legs. I doubt that's true since I'm getting contrary information in that regard...but the fact that it's assigned to them, true or not) is an example of how uptight they were over sex in general and a few "naughty parchments" were a scandal when someone died and the folks dealing with the deceased's belongings found their "wank material".
> 
> So yes, even though not near to our standards of porn, people were still "having one off the wrist" over them.


Age 61. Never before heard “having one off the wrist.” Heard “rub one out” or “dating Rosy Palm.”


----------



## jenny_1

Longtime Hubby said:


> Age 61. Never before heard “having one off the wrist.”


You're too young. Term probably coined by Marcus Tullius Cicero.


----------



## Skruddgemire

Longtime Hubby said:


> Age 61. Never before heard “having one off the wrist.” Heard “rub one out” or “dating Rosy Palm.”


British Comedian Jack Whitehall used that one...or more to the point his dad did when he installed a lock on his door. That way his wife (Jack's mother) would be spared walking in and catching him having one off the wrist.

It's a British euphemism.


----------



## 346745

Skruddgemire said:


> British Comedian Jack Whitehall used that one...or more to the point his dad did when he installed a lock on his door. That way his wife (Jack's mother) would be spared walking in and catching him having one off the wrist.
> 
> It's a British euphemism.


Oh, those Brits, always clowning


----------



## Skruddgemire

Longtime Hubby said:


> Oh, those Brits, always clowning


I love it. I once answered a spam email for breast augmentation (back in the 90s before it was quite the Scammers Inc. that it is these days) and I replied using every British word for Penis that I could think of (Thank you Monty Python). Got to love them brits. Wedding Tackle, Meat and Two Veg, etc.


----------



## AlwaysImproving

My answer to this question is to challenge you to find any scripture which says it is a sin or a time when a person was condemned for masturbation. I can save you the time and say that there isn't any. What you have are a lot of people misquoting certain passages. However, there is the scripture that says that if you think something is a sin, then for you it is a sin. Also, the bible gives plenty of examples of leaders who impose man made rules on others, but don't follow it themselves. They also forbid marriage. God had special warnings for such people and I would be terrified to be on the other end of that wrath.


----------



## Brian from Columbus

352744 said:


> I'm pretty new to this site, so apologies if this has been addressed before and I haven't seen it. But I want perspectives from other professing Christians on the topic of masturbation. I'll try not to be too explicit or vulgar 😅.
> 
> I have read respected Christian scholars and counselors on the topic of masturbation and they have differing views. One view is thoroughly represented in this post: If Your Right Hand Causes You to Sin: Ten Biblical Reflections on Masturbation
> 
> The other view is from Wayne Grudem who believes that masturbation is not _always_ sinful and cautions against making prohibition of it a "rule" since the Bible itself doesn't do that. He thinks adding commands not given in Scripture is a potentially very dangerous idea. He also thinks that a lot of people, young men especially, will reach the point of being so discouraged in their walk with the Lord because of their failure to abstain from masturbation that it will be a serious problem for their faith. That said, Grudem believes that mental images of naked people and accompanying fantasies are sinful based on Jesus's words in Matthew 5:27-30 (v. 28 specifically).
> 
> So my situation is that I have a pretty high sex drive but I'm unmarried. I believe in the Bible and that sex outside of marriage between man and wife is unwise and sinful. So I masturbate to relieve sexual tension. The problem is, I agree with both of the views on Christians and masturbation above 😅. Obviously they're in conflict with one another. I admit that lust is something I struggle with as a Christian, but I do try to fight it daily. But as I said I have a high drive and I masturbate almost daily, though without visual aids, just imagination.
> 
> So I'm hoping for some clarity and biblically based evaluations of this issue. I doubt we'll conclusively resolve it here but any well-meaning posts are welcome.


unfortunately you are hearing from mostly non-Christian worldly people here who don’t understand your faith or believe it. God created men and women with a sexual nature, but that sexuality is to be reserved for one man and his wife within marriage. No sex outside of marriage, no homosexuality. I encourage you to read the book “Every Man’s Battle” by Dr. Steven Arterburn. Dr. Arterburn and his co-writer plainly explain God’s plan for human sexuality from a Christian perspective


----------



## AlwaysImproving

Brian from Columbus said:


> unfortunately you are hearing from mostly non-Christian worldly people here who don’t understand your faith or believe it. God created men and women with a sexual nature, but that sexuality is to be reserved for one man and his wife within marriage. No sex outside of marriage, no homosexuality. I encourage you to read the book “Every Man’s Battle” by Dr. Steven Arterburn. Dr. Arterburn and his co-writer plainly explain God’s plan for human sexuality from a Christian perspective


A lot of those people exist in the church and write books, too. Stick to the bible and prayer.


----------



## Longtime Hubby

Certainly, it is okay to enjoy pleasure it provides. Takes our minds off the everyday bull.


----------



## Longtime Hubby

CD_2 said:


> I agree with Brian… I think God gave this incredible gift for marriage and marriage alone. I’d much rather share it with my wife anyway.


Tell this to any teenage boy or girl. Any single adult. Any widow or widower. Sorry. We agree to disagree on this topic.


----------



## Longtime Hubby

CD_2 said:


> You think people can’t live happily as single teens or adults without masturbation? You think people must be able to masturbate- to be happy?
> 
> This idea contradicts the Bible though… do you realize that?


I never said it has anything to do with being happy. It does have a lot to do with sexual release. That’s it. Don‘t put words in my mouth.


----------



## TinyTbone

352744 said:


> I'm pretty new to this site, so apologies if this has been addressed before and I haven't seen it. But I want perspectives from other professing Christians on the topic of masturbation. I'll try not to be too explicit or vulgar 😅.
> 
> I have read respected Christian scholars and counselors on the topic of masturbation and they have differing views. One view is thoroughly represented in this post: If Your Right Hand Causes You to Sin: Ten Biblical Reflections on Masturbation
> 
> The other view is from Wayne Grudem who believes that masturbation is not _always_ sinful and cautions against making prohibition of it a "rule" since the Bible itself doesn't do that. He thinks adding commands not given in Scripture is a potentially very dangerous idea. He also thinks that a lot of people, young men especially, will reach the point of being so discouraged in their walk with the Lord because of their failure to abstain from masturbation that it will be a serious problem for their faith. That said, Grudem believes that mental images of naked people and accompanying fantasies are sinful based on Jesus's words in Matthew 5:27-30 (v. 28 specifically).
> 
> So my situation is that I have a pretty high sex drive but I'm unmarried. I believe in the Bible and that sex outside of marriage between man and wife is unwise and sinful. So I masturbate to relieve sexual tension. The problem is, I agree with both of the views on Christians and masturbation above 😅. Obviously they're in conflict with one another. I admit that lust is something I struggle with as a Christian, but I do try to fight it daily. But as I said I have a high drive and I masturbate almost daily, though without visual aids, just imagination.
> 
> So I'm hoping for some clarity and biblically based evaluations of this issue. I doubt we'll conclusively resolve it here but any well-meaning posts are welcome.


As a Christian all my life, will say this. There are many scriptures that do deal with our sexuality, both directly and metaphorically. The most obvious read into this has to do with fornication. Then description is pretty cut and dry. Just the visualization of another, or just the thought of an act is already the sin. Many will weigh in on this, especially scholar's. It's like this. If I walk down the street and see a lady walking her dog in a sport top and spandex pants that leave nothing to the imagination and think...what I would love to do with her, or what a hot ass, the sin is done. Same with masturbation. That will always be continuous issue in us, a conflict of interest...God's way or myself? No one said it would be an easy path. I suggest prayer to the almighty for forgiveness and some guidance in coping with the gift of sexuality we were given.


----------



## TinyTbone

352744 said:


> I'm pretty new to this site, so apologies if this has been addressed before and I haven't seen it. But I want perspectives from other professing Christians on the topic of masturbation. I'll try not to be too explicit or vulgar 😅.
> 
> I have read respected Christian scholars and counselors on the topic of masturbation and they have differing views. One view is thoroughly represented in this post: If Your Right Hand Causes You to Sin: Ten Biblical Reflections on Masturbation
> 
> The other view is from Wayne Grudem who believes that masturbation is not _always_ sinful and cautions against making prohibition of it a "rule" since the Bible itself doesn't do that. He thinks adding commands not given in Scripture is a potentially very dangerous idea. He also thinks that a lot of people, young men especially, will reach the point of being so discouraged in their walk with the Lord because of their failure to abstain from masturbation that it will be a serious problem for their faith. That said, Grudem believes that mental images of naked people and accompanying fantasies are sinful based on Jesus's words in Matthew 5:27-30 (v. 28 specifically).
> 
> So my situation is that I have a pretty high sex drive but I'm unmarried. I believe in the Bible and that sex outside of marriage between man and wife is unwise and sinful. So I masturbate to relieve sexual tension. The problem is, I agree with both of the views on Christians and masturbation above 😅. Obviously they're in conflict with one another. I admit that lust is something I struggle with as a Christian, but I do try to fight it daily. But as I said I have a high drive and I masturbate almost daily, though without visual aids, just imagination.
> 
> So I'm hoping for some clarity and biblically based evaluations of this issue. I doubt we'll conclusively resolve it here but any well-meaning posts are welcome.


I will add this to the mix. It is between you and your creator to find what is right and wrong. To many have over the years decided for God what is right and wrong for us. God created us in his own image. In every way! So we are intended to be happy, not sad...hence forgiveness. God does not want us to be conflicted either. Jesus put down 2 statements we must do as believers in him.... To believe in God period and to spread the word of God. He did many things but did not judge, did not make snarky rules as to what we have to do every day. The churches that followed came up with these things. Said divine inspiration! Hog wash. It's mind control. I love my Lord and always will. I bring praise to him all times. I do not live in the shame of church shadows. I walk openly with God and smile to others as would God. I try to do good by my fellow man and not get tripped up by church dictum. Be happy and revel in all of gods creation around us and in us. Celebrate the Lord by living, laughing and loving. Be not ashamed of who you ARE!


CatholicDad said:


> I wasn’t raised Catholic so did my share of masturbating. However as part of my conversion I heard our Lord’s words… learned men can live without it. In fact, it makes marriage more true and joyful. I’ve done my share of abstaining for reasons of my wife’s health… I endured, had many wet dreams (not sinful), run many miles, lifted heavy things and enjoyed many hobbies awaiting my passionate, marital sex life to return 😉. I’ve suffered many temptations and pray for deliverance. Aren’t all Christians called to “take up our cross”?


It would seem men can't live without it. Plenty of news stories through the years where catholic priests and others have "diddled" the alter boys! Talk about an abomination! To directly serve the lord and commit homosexual acts within the church!
Look we can all speculate as to what is what biblicly, but in the end it is our individual relationship with our creator that is important. We can all "judge", or cast the first stone. Fallible man wrote the bible, king James commissioned his scholars to come up with one text to ensure streamlined worship.with as little conflict as possible and don't even think he himself did not have the last day on the final revision! I challenge all believes to pray to their creator for understanding of what is truly wanted of us by our creator, not to blindly be told by men what is right and wrong. They are but Sheppard's, guides in our walk. We must establish our beliefs from a direct relationship with our creator!


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## AlwaysImproving

But the fact you can't control your own lust thoughts doesn't alter scripture interpretation. Fornication is not masturbation. Seeing a lady walk down the street is not masturbation. That sin within you wars against what is pure. Just like with anger: be angry but do not sin. Is it possible? No. That's why we need a savior. I won't allow rules of man to make me suffer when they themselves can't follow their own rules. 

Is it possible to sin when you masturbate? Yes. It's also possible to sin when taking the Lord's supper in an improper manner. Any interpretation that masturbation is a sin is some of the wildest stretching of scripture I've seen. It's not spoken of. The reader imagines it.

The topic of masturbation in the church is just like marriage. I look at it like the warning in 1 Timothy 4. Preventing to marry?


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## Diana7

TinyTbone said:


> As a Christian all my life, will say this. There are many scriptures that do deal with our sexuality, both directly and metaphorically. The most obvious read into this has to do with fornication. Then description is pretty cut and dry. Just the visualization of another, or just the thought of an act is already the sin. Many will weigh in on this, especially scholar's. It's like this. If I walk down the street and see a lady walking her dog in a sport top and spandex pants that leave nothing to the imagination and think...what I would love to do with her, or what a hot ass, the sin is done. Same with masturbation. That will always be continuous issue in us, a conflict of interest...God's way or myself? No one said it would be an easy path. I suggest prayer to the almighty for forgiveness and some guidance in coping with the gift of sexuality we were given.


I agree on what sin is, IE lusting after others, but as a long term Christian myself I can't see any Biblical teaching on masturbation that says it's a sin. Obviously using porn to masturbate would be a no no but without I can't see myself that it's wrong unless done in a marriage where you are depriving your spouse of sex.


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## TinyTbone

CatholicDad said:


> You know nothing of my marriage. I have probably five times as many children as you, don’t use artificial means of birth control, and my wife had cancer- not to mention I’ve traveled extensively for business. I’m certain my wife and I are more passionate for each other… porn/masturbation is your backup “lover”, not mine.


Here we go again my church is better than yours. My god is better than yours..wars have and are still being fought over this! I suggest we actually allowed God to speak on this matter to the man and quit slinging mud over who thinks they know more! Peace be unto us all!!


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## Diana7

TinyTbone said:


> I will add this to the mix. It is between you and your creator to find what is right and wrong. To many have over the years decided for God what is right and wrong for us. God created us in his own image. In every way! So we are intended to be happy, not sad...hence forgiveness. God does not want us to be conflicted either. Jesus put down 2 statements we must do as believers in him.... To believe in God period and to spread the word of God. He did many things but did not judge, did not make snarky rules as to what we have to do every day. The churches that followed came up with these things. Said divine inspiration! Hog wash. It's mind control. I love my Lord and always will. I bring praise to him all times. I do not live in the shame of church shadows. I walk openly with God and smile to others as would God. I try to do good by my fellow man and not get tripped up by church dictum. Be happy and revel in all of gods creation around us and in us. Celebrate the Lord by living, laughing and loving. Be not ashamed of who you ARE!
> 
> It would seem men can't live without it. Plenty of news stories through the years where catholic priests and others have "diddled" the alter boys! Talk about an abomination! To directly serve the lord and commit homosexual acts within the church!
> Look we can all speculate as to what is what biblicly, but in the end it is our individual relationship with our creator that is important. We can all "judge", or cast the first stone. Fallible man wrote the bible, king James commissioned his scholars to come up with one text to ensure streamlined worship.with as little conflict as possible and don't even think he himself did not have the last day on the final revision! I challenge all believes to pray to their creator for understanding of what is truly wanted of us by our creator, not to blindly be told by men what is right and wrong. They are but Sheppard's, guides in our walk. We must establish our beliefs from a direct relationship with our creator!


God has given us a lot of guidance and teaching in the Bible about how we are to live. We shouldn't add to those things but there is a lot there.


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## 342693

Diana7 said:


> We are both Christians and can't see where the Bible says masturbation is wrong…as long as porn isn't involved…If you can masturbate without the mental images,


I agree. But let’s be honest, who masturbates without looking at porn or thinking (lusting) about a man or woman?


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## TinyTbone

Diana7 said:


> God has given us a lot of guidance and teaching in the Bible about how we are to live. We shouldn't add to those things but there is a lot there.


I actually see it this way. I've been around the world 7 times. I've seen and experienced many things. I know this. Man is weak. Man lusts for power and control. Churches themselves have been corrupted by man. Man has written and rewritten the Bible many times and usually in favor of specific viewpoints. I trust in my walk with Jesus and that I will he lead the right way and that what I need to know will be revealed to me. It is solely up to me what I do with his revelations to me.


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## 342693

346745 said:


> And, there's more to being a Christian than denying self-pleasure. Way more.


Ask Adam and Eve how that worked out.


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## Diana7

SCDad01 said:


> I agree. But let’s be honest, who masturbates without looking at porn or thinking (lusting) about a man or woman?


They seemed to manage without porn throughout history.


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## Diana7

TinyTbone said:


> I actually see it this way. I've been around the world 7 times. I've seen and experienced many things. I know this. Man is weak. Man lusts for power and control. Churches themselves have been corrupted by man. Man has written and rewritten the Bible many times and usually in favor of specific viewpoints. I trust in my walk with Jesus and that I will he lead the right way and that what I need to know will be revealed to me. It is solely up to me what I do with his revelations to me.


Choose a good translation that sticks closest to the original. There are several very accurate ones. If you just go off and decide for yourself what you should do you can easily go off track. I have seen it happen. The Bible always needs to be our plumbline. Everything we think God is saying should always be in line with what His Word says. 

There are countless churches who still follow God and His Word, they aren't hard to find. We have been to quite a few.


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## Brian from Columbus

TinyTbone said:


> As a Christian all my life, will say this. There are many scriptures that do deal with our sexuality, both directly and metaphorically. The most obvious read into this has to do with fornication. Then description is pretty cut and dry. Just the visualization of another, or just the thought of an act is already the sin. Many will weigh in on this, especially scholar's. It's like this. If I walk down the street and see a lady walking her dog in a sport top and spandex pants that leave nothing to the imagination and think...what I would love to do with her, or what a hot ass, the sin is done. Same with masturbation. That will always be continuous issue in us, a conflict of interest...God's way or myself? No one said it would be an easy path. I suggest prayer to the almighty for forgiveness and some guidance in coping with the gift of sexuality we were given.


amen! You would benefit from reading “Every Man’s Battle”, a Christian view on sexuality. Most of the comments on this site are obviously from “if it feels good do it” non-Christians. Get a Christian perspective is my recommendation


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## Rayr44

Diana7 said:


> We are both Christians and can't see where the Bible says masturbation is wrong. Like anything else it can become an obsession but as long as porn isn't involved I can't see what is wrong.
> If you can masturbate without the mental images, just on the physical sensations even better.
> Trouble is that people get married so much later today which makes it hard for Christians.
> 
> Hopefully you have a good supportive church with Christian friends.


Derek prince teaches about this topic with full authority and references to scripture. I suggest you look up Derek prince teachings on this topic.


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## Diana7

Rayr44 said:


> Derek prince teaches about this topic with full authority and references to scripture. I suggest you look up Derek prince teachings on this topic.


He is a good teacher but we must each study it for ourselves.


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## C.C. says ...




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## Tiddytok5

Unless whatever created everything revealed itself to the entire world at once and delivered messages to everyone of specific rules for life that everyone must follow....



Masturbating is fine...

Everything is fine and okay to do.


Until whatever tells us otherwise.


Look at it this way, whatever created everything, created masturbation. 

If it wasn't okay, we would have never known of such a thing. It would never existed.

Enjoy your body and keep discovering it.


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## BootsAndJeans

I do not think there is anything wrong with masturbation, unless it interferes with sexual relations with your spouse. It is a biological aspect of all mammals. I have seen dogs, deer, raccoons and other species do it. I think it is probably more common with males. Male hormones are potent and they drive men crazy. Honestly, at my age, I am relieved I am not constantly thinking about sex. 

I agree with the one reply, that adding to commands is generally not good. Masturbation, alcohol use, eating are not prohibited. But eating to excess is gluttony and drunkenness is considered sinful. The point is that if an action is not prohibited, generally doing it excess, where it disrupts life is. Moderation in all things is how I try to live.

I honestly have a hard time believing God, with all the stuff that happens in the world, is really concerned about **** or Jane's sex life.


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## TinyTbone

Our higher power, never said directly to us not to. Never mentioned this. Told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply. It's the churches themselves that created this dilemma. Not our higher power.


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