# Unethical Amnesia



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I am taking a business management course. When looking through the textbook for this course, MGMT11, Principles of Management, by Chuck Williams of Butler University, I came across this: 

"I hope you can sleep at night!" is what we might (or would like) to say to someone acting unethically or making unethical decisions. But, thanks to unethical amnesia, people who are repeatedly unethical generally forget that they were, which makes it easier to continue being unethical. When recalled, memories of unethical behavior are remembered less clearly than ethical behavior, which is easily and accurately remembered. So why do unethical workers have a "clear conscious?" Because they can't remember."

This is based on an article in Harvard Business Review here: https://hbr.org/2016/05/were-unethical-at-work-because-we-forget-our-misdeeds

I found this to be quite interesting in light of all the reports of wayward spouses who say they cannot remember details of their illicit behavior. This gives credence to their statement.

I recommend you read the short article before commenting. It explains their methodology, which should cover any unethical behavior, not only work related incidents.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

The question is, is it true? Or is it just someone who acts immorally deludes themselves into believing. Personally, I just think people can compartmentalize. Just like when people who go to war do when they see dead body parts. When their buddy dies right next to them, they still continue because they have to. In other words I don't think this is amnesia as much as a mental way to protect ones self from the realities of what they do or who they are. 

They can't remember because it would destroy their belief in themselves.

It's interesting though. What happens when they start to remember.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

What was their research design?


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

It is situational ethics


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

“I’ve told so many lies I *honestly* can’t remember them all” doesn’t get a pass in my book.


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## AandM (Jan 30, 2019)

Researchers at Duke failed to replicate the original study's results, despite having a sample size 2.5 times that of the Harvard study.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

CynthiaDe said:


> I am taking a business management course. When looking through the textbook for this course, MGMT11, Principles of Management, by Chuck Williams of Butler University, I came across this:
> 
> "I hope you can sleep at night!" is what we might (or would like) to say to someone acting unethically or making unethical decisions. But, thanks to unethical amnesia, people who are repeatedly unethical generally forget that they were, which makes it easier to continue being unethical. When recalled, memories of unethical behavior are remembered less clearly than ethical behavior, which is easily and accurately remembered. So why do unethical workers have a "clear conscious?" Because they can't remember."
> 
> ...


This is actually pretty interesting.

There are those that still fit the category of having repressed or blocked memories but maybe they aren't repeat offenders like you are talking about?

I do believe a lot of waywards repress the details to not face the raw pain and disgust they would have to face.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I posted this as food for thought. It certainly doesn't give someone a pass. They committed the sin after all. They are still responsible and accountable, whether they remember the details or not.



AandM said:


> Researchers at Duke failed to replicate the original study's results, despite having a sample size 2.5 times that of the Harvard study.


That's quite interesting. Do you have a link for that info?


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## AandM (Jan 30, 2019)

CynthiaDe said:


> I posted this as food for thought. It certainly doesn't give someone a pass. They committed the sin after all. They are still responsible and accountable, whether they remember the details or not.
> 
> 
> 
> That's quite interesting. Do you have a link for that info?


The link is in my original post, but here you go:https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.3758/s13421-018-0803-y.pdf

Food for thought, I get that. I read your link, and saw then, that Francesca Gino has authored some airport books. Seeing that, I then googled "We’re Unethical at Work Because We Forget Our Misdeeds" + "replication crisis". Sure enough, the first link that came up is the one above.

What year was the current revision of your textbook published in?


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

AandM said:


> The link is in my original post, but here you go:https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.3758/s13421-018-0803-y.pdf
> 
> Food for thought, I get that. I read your link, and saw then, that Francesca Gino has authored some airport books. Seeing that, I then googled "We’re Unethical at Work Because We Forget Our Misdeeds" + "replication crisis". Sure enough, the first link that came up is the one above.
> 
> What year was the current revision of your textbook published in?


I wish I could forget picky people who need to be "that guy"....


But seriously, I think sometimes we "make" ourselves forget things.

Trauma victims certainly do. And I think people DO sometimes do that to try to avoid responsibility. Study or no study.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> This is actually pretty interesting.
> 
> There are those that still fit the category of having repressed or blocked memories but maybe they aren't repeat offenders like you are talking about?
> 
> I do believe a lot of waywards repress the details to not face the raw pain and disgust they would have to face.


LOL... no.

For any legitimate cases of “I can’t remember”, all it really boils down to is WS’s not putting stock into the same sorts of details as his or her BS.

The rest is just lying.

And that’s it.

It ain’t complicated.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

AandM said:


> The link is in my original post, but here you go:https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.3758/s13421-018-0803-y.pdf
> 
> Food for thought, I get that. I read your link, and saw then, that Francesca Gino has authored some airport books. Seeing that, I then googled "We’re Unethical at Work Because We Forget Our Misdeeds" + "replication crisis". Sure enough, the first link that came up is the one above.
> 
> What year was the current revision of your textbook published in?


I couldn't tell that your entire post was a link, since people change their text color and font sometimes.

It was published January 2018. [edited]


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Unethical amnesia... that sounds like changing our fear to one we would rather deal with instead of the one we are finding ourselves present with.

So one can lie to themselves like they lie to others, but that does not change the reality of the damage or harm caused to oneself... behavioral dishonesty is like being charged by a grizzly bear, you can pretend it is small kitten all you want but the reality of damage in the result is no different.

In the military we had a motto... train as you would fight.

Life produces the same results... if you practice dishonesty, you will be habitually dishonest.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

One of the problems with lying is that eventually most liars cannot remember what lies they told and they get caught in their own web of lies.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

CynthiaDe said:


> One of the problems with lying is that eventually most liars cannot remember what lies they told and they get caught in their own web of lies.


Wasn't it Mark Twain who said that if you tell the truth you never have to remember the story....


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

personofinterest said:


> Wasn't it Mark Twain who said that if you tell the truth you never have to remember the story....


Yes, it was Twain.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

The original offense doesn't have to be lying.

What came to mind for me was parenting.

Last year, my mom and I had a couple of heated exchanges with the outcomes being the same. She acted like she had no clue what I was talking about. So basically, she was trying to wipe away my entire childhood. She wouldn't deny what I was saying. She wouldn't agree. She'd just make these nebulous statements that meant absolutely nothing.

And she's a psychotherapist.

A few weeks ago, I was watching a show about a mom who walked in on her husband sexually abusing their daughter, and the bottom line was that the mom did nothing. She didn't confront her husband. She didn't protect her daughter. And the abuse continued for years.

When this mother was confronted by her adult daughter (years later), she played the victim and just couldn't understand why her daughter was so angry with her. 

Although the context was different, her reaction reminded me of my mom. No sense of responsibility at all. And that sort of blankness destroys any respect. 

No matter how much I try, I can't relate to this type of thinking.

Even if a person genuinely can't remember, you'd think they'd be horrified. You'd think they'd go the extra mile to make the relationship better. Not so.

And in terms of my own bad behavior, I won't say I remember everything, but I remember a lot - going back to when I was very small.

So, with the exception of a completely aberrant, rare situation, I have a very, very hard time believing that people don't remember.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

A person might remember getting £100. But remembering that they owe someone £100?

Sorry! Can't recall that!


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## SuburbanDad (Jul 31, 2018)

GusPolinski said:


> LOL... no.
> 
> For any legitimate cases of “I can’t remember”, all it really boils down to is WS’s not putting stock into the same sorts of details as his or her BS.
> 
> ...


A wise person once said they will only admit to what you know.

Everything else stays buried but remembered, never to see the light of day


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## Wronged (Mar 5, 2019)

MattMatt said:


> A person might remember getting £100. But remembering that they owe someone £100?
> 
> Sorry! Can't recall that!


Unfortunately, I know someone just like this... It is never his turn to buy the beer.


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## Wronged (Mar 5, 2019)

Can I use this as a reason to redo my March madness bracket? Duke losing busted my bracket.


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## AandM (Jan 30, 2019)

personofinterest said:


> I wish I could forget picky people who need to be "that guy"....
> 
> 
> But seriously, I think sometimes we "make" ourselves forget things.
> ...


_Person of Inara, you sultry minx - stop following me!_

Seriously, I do have a hobby-horse to ride concerning studies like the OP referenced. Salacious results are reached via inadequately sampled study, PopSci "journalists" proclaim the "study" to the heavens, TedTalks are given, and speaking fees are astronomical. It gets referenced in a college textbook and taken by students as an adequate model of reality.

Then, another -rare as unicorns, though better- study following the first, using equal or better sample sizes and testing, invalidates the first study(ies).

Yet, no one will publish or proclaim to the mass audience that the original "truth" (yeah, philosophy, not science) is in doubt.

Example: CynthiaDe's textbook. It may be that revisions are simply, "2018 is the same as 2017 as the same as 2016, etc". Or, it may be that no one involved in the editing of the textbook heard about the lack of replication compared to the original study. Or, no one cares.

While this bull**** is propagating over the internet, however, people are profiting from paid speeches based on the TedTalks and then paid speeches, and professors are introducing probable horse**** into their curriculum: 'Cause it sounds cool:
"Dopamine and confidence increased by standing legs and arms akimbo" -Looks stupid limbs akimbo: placebo affect consumes.
"Girls are dirty dirty cheating ****s because their ovaries command them to be!"
"Girls can't help it! Biology (IFLS!) wired them that way! Alpha ****s, Beta Bucks!"

Anyway...where was I?

Oh, yeah, I dunno...

But..

What pisses me off is not the initial publication, but the desultory retraction.

Anyway, science journalism today:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct...aw09Ea0AOIHuG5Y4qGd92gvO&ust=1554348799308875


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