# One way street...



## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

first time poster...please be kind. 

I'm writing because I'm really down about my marriage of 13 years. 

We have one son who is 7. My job (and husband's encouragement) has relocated us to another state.

We don't live near family whatsoever. I am breadwinner and have been for all 13 years.
My husband is very talented but he is picky about jobs. He is choosing to just work temporary jobs and try freelancing to see if he can keep the same income level as the job he just left in our previous state. (70k a year).

So far...he isn't doing all that well in that department, but we don't need childcare for our son afterschool. We used to have a nanny.

Here's my problem or problems. I am going through bankruptcy. He didn't file with me so we could preserve one of our credit status...A bad business deal left us in this position...I started working another business (in addition to my current profession that requires about 50 hours a week)...to try and avoid filing. My husband was sort of supportive...but not as helpful as I wished. For example, I've been waiting 3 weeks for him to do a simple task that will help with my business marketing. 

He is far more frugal these days...he used to spend through the nose. But, now he has curbed a lot of it.

So much so, I didn't even get a birthday present this year...but he just went out and bought a new xbox for himself and our son. 

So....maybe I'm feeling jealous/depressed. I work myself non-stop. I don't really spend money. I am miserable because of the bankruptcy. I am stressed out about making a good impression in my new job AND trying to recruit more business through this extra project which could give my husband some actual work/projects.

I rarely get to spend time with our son. I'm just always working. My husband works a little in the morning and then picks our son up and coaches his soccer...spends the day with him. I come home around 7 and my husband usually makes us dinner...but the house is still unpacked from the move. It's a wreck. I'm at my witts end.

Yes, I've talked to him about this. He says he's working hard to try to recruit more work...and he did just get another 3500.00 project....which is good. 

We don't have sex...mainly because I don't want to. He is gaining weight..not working out and acting extremely depressed and angry a lot. He says he's "great".....and truly this really isn't unusual behavior for him. He is just a very negative, low energy person. He doesn't seem to want to lose weight. I encourage him to work out with me in the morning (we have equipment) and he usually says "so you think I'm fat, huh?" I always say no...I want you to be healthy. We ALL need to work out.

Our 14th anniversary is coming up as is..his birthday. I have no desire to do much of anything for him...because he didn't even really do anything for my birthday or prior events. I used to GIVE GIVE GIVE....until it caused me to go bankrupt. Now..I'm just flatlined. He seems to care less about it. There was a problem with the bankruptcy filing and it caused me a setback in the case and his suggestion was for me to either threaten to sue MY ATTORNEY -- and/or lie to the trustee...to just get this past us. I did neither...btw. 

Bottom line....he's not a bad guy. He doesn't scream or yell at me...(he just doesn't really talk much) ...he doesn't hit me ....he's a decent father for our son. He makes me dinner and offers to help me at times...He will even rub my shoulders if I complain about stress. But, I am just so unhappy. 

Am I too picky? Am I just thinking that the grass is greener on the other side? I just feel so sad and miserable with him.

Thoughts?


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

I suppose my question is, what do you want from him? Aside from working out anyway... he's working. It's not what he USED to bring in but he's slowly gaining momentum and not totally sitting around on his you know what.

Are you too picky? That depends on what you're looking for from him. The grass is greener where you water it.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

You aren't picky. You are carrying the world on your shoulders on your own.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

I think I want a more positive force in my life. I can't handle a sinking ship all on my own and I certainly want a partner. He's just always complaining about something or someone. 

I left the dog out yesterday because he said he'd be home in 10 minutes. Well he got mad at me because the dog was out for over an hour because HE wasn't home for an hour and a half. I had to apologize... Nothing happened to the dog. But I felt the tension. 

I have a regular work meeting at 1 everyday. He knows this. But calls me all the time during this meeting to tell me odd things about the house ... He just feels the need to complain all the time. 




A Bit Much said:


> I suppose my question is, what do you want from him? Aside from working out anyway... he's working. It's not what he USED to bring in but he's slowly gaining momentum and not totally sitting around on his you know what.
> 
> Are you too picky? That depends on what you're looking for from him. The grass is greener where you water it.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> My job (and husband's encouragement) has relocated us to another state.




I could see him thinking 'hey, she's where she wants to be, doing what she wants to to, so she should be happy' with this.

I'm not sure giving up a 70K a year job and relocating was easy for him, and maybe his attitude is a direct reflection of this. He's fine with letting you steer the ship, and in the meantime while you are seemingly getting what you want career wise, he's taking a back seat.

I don't advocate laziness but I have a feeling he's not happy either with the circumstances and he's acting out on it.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

mega1 said:


> I think I want a more positive force in my life. I can't handle a sinking ship all on my own and I certainly want a partner. He's just always complaining about something or someone.
> 
> I left the dog out yesterday because he said he'd be home in 10 minutes. Well he got mad at me because the dog was out for over an hour because HE wasn't home for an hour and a half. I had to apologize... Nothing happened to the dog. But I felt the tension.
> 
> ...


Why did you apologize? If he said he'd be home in 10 minutes you took him for his word. He should be mad at himself. 

Again, I'm sure he's just as unhappy as you are about everything and is handling it in very poor ways.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

You know, I used to do this. I can't blame anyone but myself though, taking on more than I should is my own doing. I got pissed off at my spouse for it, and all it got me was a ton of anger and resentment. We should have been sharing the load, but *I didn't trust him* to take his part up and so I did his and mine. It wasn't right.


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## ScrewedEverything (May 14, 2013)

mega1 said:


> I'm writing because I'm really down about my marriage of 13 years.
> 
> Am I just thinking that the grass is greener on the other side? I just feel so sad and miserable with him.
> 
> Thoughts?


So sorry that you are having a rough time and feeling down about life. It's little consolation for me to tell you that your problems are not unique and things could be much worse (unless you can somehow find perverse comfort in the fact that life is crappy to everyone at times). On the plus side, I see a lot of hope in your situation. For all the negatives, it sounds like there are plenty of foundational things that are ok in your life. Speaking specifically, your husband. Yup, he sounds unmotivated, unappreciative and uncommunicative. But if he's really basically an ok guy, you can work through that. 

Your relationship with your husband sounds somewhat similar to what my wife and I (and many other couples) have gone through). Usually the fix is communication. I remember a time when I was working ridiculous hours, I thought my wife wasn't carrying her fair share of the load - in the relationship or in life - and that she was emotionally disconnected from me, selfish, depressed, etc. All I wanted was for her to show that she cared about me and that we could work together on the things that life threw at us. I wasted too many years feeling that way without ever really expressing it to her of talking about it. Needless to say, I was shocked to eventually find out that she had spent those years feeling similar things about me. It's easy to get disconnected from each other under the daily weight of getting by and trying to get along. And it's amazing how much better everything seems when you finally feel like you are on the same page with your spouse. You still have all the same material problems you had the day before, but they just don't seem so bad.

Finances sound tight, so marriage counseling may not be a realistic option at the moment but there are books you can read and things you can do on your own to change your marriage dynamics. Sometimes even little changes can make a world of difference and if both of you are willing to try, little changes are easily accomplishable. It all starts with honesty and communication.

As far as the grass being greener elsewhere, trust me, grass is grass. Every lawn has its brown patches and weeds, every lawn has good seasons and periods where it looks a little ratty. It's just a matter of how much regular work you are willing to put into your grass that determines how it looks. Moving on to a different lawn isn't going to change that.

Good luck to you. Things aren't as bleak as the seem and you are not alone.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Thanks for your feedback...everyone. 

I can see the valid points here...and maybe I should not be so pessimistic. It just seems so difficult.

I will say that my husband is NOT unhappy about the move and/or my career. He is not one to want to work very hard....

In fact, he's had things placed in his lap (by me and others) and he will find a way to get out of them. 

I think he's just happy being unhappy. That's his personality...

It's like he got his photo taken for his id the other day and I looked at it and I thought...my Gosh! I asked him...what's this? He said what? I said you look like you were just told that you lost a million dollars...he looked at it and said...yeah you are right...but that's how I always look. 

Here's the thing...I'm around a lot of positive people in my work and in my new business..and my husband is always the downer. 

I needed him to finish up something to launch my new marketing for "our" business (which is really only me) and he said it had to wait because he needed to finish his football game. 

He could care less if I filed bkrtcy...as long as it doesn't impact him. I had to cash out part of my 401k to pay the bills...he doesn't seem to mind..as long as it doesn't bother HIM.

I have done marriage counseling;...it didn't help. He told the counselor that I am the perfect wife and he's just obviously a big failure. THat he just apparently isn't "good enough for me".


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

mega1 said:


> Thanks for your feedback...everyone.
> 
> I can see the valid points here...and maybe I should not be so pessimistic. It just seems so difficult.
> 
> ...


It's very difficult to live with a person like this I'm sure, but that said, how did you come to marry such a person? You two seem very incompatible. 

Habits can be changed. Character cannot. Your husbands character is to be leisurely and negative about life in general. It sounds like he's been that way all his life. How do you change that? Well, you can't. He is in control of that. You only are left with adjusting to it as his wife.

ETA: I think you have buyer's remorse. Especially now when so much is on your shoulders.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

I agree with you, A bit much. I knew it was trouble in the beginning...but I respected his opinion (critical) so much. I was 24 when we got married and I thought he was just so much smarter than everyone else and I desperately sought his approval. 

I still think he's very, very bright in his field...but he lacks in common sense. In a BIG way.... So yes...I agree with you. I have tried to be positive energy to him....but it has gotten so severe...I now struggle to even keep my OWN positive energy. 

He's changed me. I know that I shouldn't admit to that or even have allowed that to happen....but it has. I don't laugh or smile very much like I used to..and I don't communicate well ..because I don't practice at home. 

He's the type..(no matter how many times I've requested change) that won't even say hello when you walk in the door. My son started to pick up the habit now and I'm trying to break him of it. It's difficult! Now I walk in and they both won't even look up and say "hi".... 

It's his style....you are right...hard to untrain.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Another poster on this site has a similar story to yours and is contemplating divorce over it. She can no longer tolerate his negativity and depressed state. 

Are you there yet? I don't think you are, but the road ahead doesn't look too smooth. He's not changing who he is. You have talked to him about it, and he's not budging or making an effort. What do you do with that?

Accept it. 

This can be done 2 ways. Live with it, or do not live with it and leave him.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

The xbox bothered you, and you resent that he gets to work when he wants on what he wants. 'picky'. You miss having the nanny. You take the full bankruptcy hit - and he is only 'kind of' supportive and comes out unscathed and uncaring and he suggests you be dishonest when a snag in the bankruptcy causes a problem. He buys an XBox when money is tight. You also resent that you are working all the time and he gets to spend all his free time with your son while you feel 'flatlined' and not able to spendthe time with your son that you would like. He is putting on weight and gets defensive when you call him on it. He is 'very negative' and 'low energy' and 'lacks common sense'. You are losing respect for him and your sex life is tanking. You are conflicted since he is more frugal as needed but also you felt forgotten when you didnt get a birthday pesent. You forsee doing nothing for him in return but it is leaving a bitter taste in your mouth. You are blaming him for changes you see in yourself including being less happy and communicative.

Otherwise, everything's fine since he doesnt yell or hit and you guys are mostly holding it together, barely.

Just gathering my cliff notes before responding. Did I miss anything?


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## Rafters (Sep 18, 2013)

mega1 said:


> We don't live near family whatsoever. I am breadwinner and have been for all 13 years.
> My husband is very talented but he is picky about jobs. He is choosing to just work temporary jobs and try freelancing to see if he can keep the same income level as the job he just left in our previous state. (70k a year).


So he left a 70k job but you've been the breadwinner for all 13 years you've been with him?

If he was making 70k how much were you making?


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Yes...I think you've summarized it all... 

Doesn't look so great ...laid out like that. That's for sure...


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

One more thing... How would you think he would describe the situation? Do you think his account would differ from yours?

He sounds a little like an unsupportive, introverted, automoton that is emotionally tone-deaf, and functionally stunted. Would you say that he responds to stress by shutting down and putting up walls?

edit: that sounds mean spirited. Thats not my intent. Some guys (some people) do shut down when the stress hits.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Yes, he completely shuts down on me.

We did a joint consulting gig recently and he insulted one of the women in our class. It was by accident (emotionally tone deaf is correct) ...but when they told us they wouldn't be renewing our agreement...I told him that I knew that was coming. (The woman went off on him in front of everyone). He got mad and said that it was the woman's fault for just being too sensitive. 

He hung up on me and refused to speak about it again.... after that happened. So yes, that's exactly how he takes any confrontation. I don't confront him anymore..I don't say anything to him really ..when he hurts my feelings or gets upset. It's just not worth the tension.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

Engineer? no...forget that. Dont answer that it isnt important.

You have way too much story here for me or likely anyone else to give any serious advice seems to me without knowing more.. one thing bothers me though..

The bankruptcy. You really have carried the full impact of it, and that is a problem. To me, marriage is largely about sharing burdens. It is, at the same time the hardest thing to do since we all have self preservtion feelings as well - but marriage is about being a team. (Some people hate when I trot out the 'team' thing...). You can argue the 'one of us needs good credit', but the fallout from that kind of move left you feeling cast adrift. Seems like the root of half the problems you list - the personality conflict is becoming a bigger deal now that you have financial troubles.

The reason its a problem is that both of you need to feel like you are both contributing and both sharing the burden and both taking the hit. You both need to feel that the other is fully invesed in the relationship. Its pretty obvious that you feel like that balance has gotten out of whack.. and it isnt about being the bread winner. You feel wiped out, and probably have feelings of insecurity and doubt about your future and there he is, plodding along same as always?

13 years. When did things start getting worse? I assume it was 'good' for a time?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

*Re: Re: One way street...*



mega1 said:


> I have done marriage counseling;...it didn't help. He told the counselor that I am the perfect wife and he's just obviously a big failure. THat he just apparently isn't "good enough for me".


Maybe you should start agreeing with him. One of the most straightforward truths in life, can be the hardest to learn.

We train people how to treat us.

You're husband needs some reconditioning. He doesnt need your support, he needs a hard kick in the ass. His behavior is wholly and completely unattractive.

Edited to add, you insist that confronting him isnt worth the tension. And guess what? He knows that.
If anything you should be doubling down on creating tension.
Skip the bankrupcy, have him served instead. He cant ignore THAT. And that pulls him into the bankrupcy as well. He's coasting. And he knows it, and importantly, he accepts it.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

I think things stopped being "good" when I woke up and realized that I was worth something. A lot of it were my own issues...carried from childhood. I always felt like I wasn't good enough or "needed" someone to guide me...because I couldn't POSSIBLY be adequate or even successful on my own. 

My parents saw this from the get go....but of course, I didn't listen. They were a mess too! My husband just drops off on big/tough issues. If there's a problem with the house...he leaves it to me... He just checks out. 

When I try to call him on it...it just becomes a non-issue in his mind and he gets cold and defensive. So...I hate tension...so I just avoid confrontation and allow it to go unpunished. 

I know this is going to sound awful....but I recently sat down (on advice of a friend) and wrote out what I dreamed for my life....and that was VERY difficult. But, I realized that I want so many wonderful things...including a husband who provides for me. Times get tough ...no question. And I've ALWAYS said that marriage should not be about money. But, I'm so tired...I just want to not feel this pressure. I want a husband that WANTS that for me...too. I think the REAL problem is my husband doesn't have that in him. He doesn't dream of taking away all of my problems...(that are technically our problems). 

He doesn't seem to want to do anything more than what we are doing right now. If I don't change the course financially for us...then we will always be stuck. He won't embrace anything outside of his comfort zone....

SO....what I'm saying is I want a partner...and I don't like that our son is growing up hearing his dad say "when mommy gets the business going...maybe we will be afford a vacation".


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

I am quite comfortable declaring that your husband sucks.

But ... just as he has saddled you with keeping the family afloat, dissolving your marriage should you choose to do so, will also rest entirely with you.

Given the tone of your post, and your exercise about what you want from your life the choice is clear. But you must knowingly make that choice before anything starts to change.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

I agree, Deejo. But the choice paralyzes me because I keep wondering if this is just the way it is... He doesn't cheat on me etc... So maybe this is the best option for my life. 

But what life? I'm realizing that I don't do much more than work. We don't vacation. My bankruptcy is far from over and it's going to make our lives miserable for at least 3 years. He's going to Want to use his not working as a way to lower our income level for the bankruptcy courts... So, instead of wanting to earn more and try to avert this he will want to be lower in level of income ...

I must admit I day dream about meeting a Successful man who will allow me to be me... And not feel this kind of pressure. 

I literally couldn't sleep last night... Up worried about the bankruptcy. And he could truly care less. 




Deejo said:


> I am quite comfortable declaring that your husband sucks.
> 
> But ... just as he has saddled you with keeping the family afloat, dissolving your marriage should you choose to do so, will also rest entirely with you.
> 
> Given the tone of your post, and your exercise about what you want from your life the choice is clear. But you must knowingly make that choice before anything starts to change.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

mega1 said:


> I agree, Deejo. But the choice paralyzes me because I keep wondering if this is just the way it is... He doesn't cheat on me etc... So maybe this is the best option for my life.


Do you think that seeing this as the possible best option means you are afraid to go it alone without a man in your life? Nobody knows what tomorrow will bring. What is it that makes you afraid to forge ahead without this particular man in your life?

From what I'm reading, it sounds like he's more of a liability than an asset ... at least as far as your emotional health is concerned.


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## bunny23 (May 19, 2011)

Why did you allow him to spare his own credit? He has no responsibility in this relationship. You have now turned into his mommy...

Sorry if I'm being harsh but I was in a relationship like this. It's not sustainable. 

I really think you should lay this out for him.... maybe he will get the picture then? And stop picking up after him or asking him to work.. 

You are in serious trouble if you decide to D.. you will probably end up paying support if he can't get his act together.

Did you speak to a lawyer before filing for bankruptcy? If you BOTH made financial decisions BOTH should have filed... 

I would talk to a Divorce attorney and see what you are dealing with here.. but I think you may have backed yourself into a corner. I would take this even further and say that he probably knows there is a huge issue, but also knows in case of d you have more to lose so you will probably keep it up.

I think you should talk to someone about this and start making some definite and deliberate choices and moves. The hardest part is living in that "limbo" once you start making choices (after discussing them with attorney) you will feel clearer about what you need.

Work on yourself.. there is only so much talking and pleading you can do. He will either come around or not.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

*Re: Re: One way street...*

Would your perspective and decision really be all that different if he were cheating?

Lack of bad behavior does not a good man make.





mega1 said:


> I agree, Deejo. But the choice paralyzes me because I keep wondering if this is just the way it is... He doesn't cheat on me etc... So maybe this is the best option for my life.
> 
> But what life? I'm realizing that I don't do much more than work. We don't vacation. My bankruptcy is far from over and it's going to make our lives miserable for at least 3 years. He's going to Want to use his not working as a way to lower our income level for the bankruptcy courts... So, instead of wanting to earn more and try to avert this he will want to be lower in level of income ...
> 
> ...


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## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

You say you dont have sex is that your own decision his or is it mutual.

I believe that is where you problems is.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Read up on walk-away-wives. You're gone, and you're not going back. Sorry.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

No I don't mind the honest feedback. I need to hear it. 

To answer the questions ... We spared his credit because most of the debt went in my name. The one sided relationship played out in every way. He just doesn't buy cars, in fact when we went to replace my stolen engagement ring ... He said he picked out 2 for me to choose from and when I got to the store.. He said I picked the more $$$ one and handed me a credit app. The people in the store knew my family so I felt so embarrassed I just did it. I shouldn't have... But that's a good example of how he operates. 

He wouldn't do that now I don't believe... But that's a really good example of the mindset. 

As for sex, I'm sure he would want it. I just don't ... And these problems were alive and well when we were having regular sex. He would not change his attitude of I started having regular sex. I gave him a BJ recently. It didn't make any difference. Trust me. 


bunny23 said:


> Why did you allow him to spare his own credit? He has no responsibility in this relationship. You have now turned into his mommy...
> 
> Sorry if I'm being harsh but I was in a relationship like this. It's not sustainable.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

SomeOne asked if I thought his account would differ from mine. I think he's said in therapy that aside from leaving my closet messy at times, I'm a good wife. 

I had a friend visiting this week and she thought that it appeared that I liked my husband...but that she could see we react to each other in the "same ol pattern". 
He had a meltdown last night because he couldn't get the project completed tht I asked him to do 2 months ago... He waited til the night before.. The due date and he was quite frustrated. Although he spent 4 hours watching his football game first. 

It's hard because I feel he does the work of a wife... Not a husband.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

mega1 said:


> It's hard because I feel he does the work of a wife... Not a husband.


Ahh. Now we are getting at it. Maybe.

Its good that you can be honest about how you feel about that. It this really what is going on? I think you said he makes dinner etc too - but is also 'unmotivated'. Is he doing housekeeping too?

Do you feel that he isnt working hard enough? 

I dont really have a point to make.. just rambling...

This makes me reflect on my wife (and honest to god - I am not trying to equate my feelings with yours nor our situations...).. but I see her at home with the kids and what she has to do and also working part-time - but largely on her own schedule and I have to say that I am sometimes jealous of 'how good she has it' as I rack up the hours and get home late every freaking night. But at the same time - I know that we are both filing in our niche in the family and I am really, really grateful for that too. The house is always a freaking disaster and I blame her for that frankly but she also spends all her time taking the kids to an impressive list of things (Piano, Soccer, Basketball, Swimming, gymnastics, scouts, etc...) and they love that. So yeah its a grind for me sometimes but I believe it allows our family to function when all of us are doing our thing. 

Its a fine line between what I want, and what I 'must do'. I do know that 'doing my duty' is a depressing way to look at it..a soul crushing way to look at it actually... but if I think of it as a mechanism to get what I want - that somehow seems very, very different indeed.

My point is that even though I struggle sometimes with how things are - when I think about it carefully I am thankful of it at the same time. But I can tell you if I didnt have that perspective.. that appreciation - or got past my breaking point - I could easly see us, me, slipping to where you are.

One thing I am pretty sure of... something I have thought about.... If I traded places with my wife and she took my job - and I took her place and did what she does... Im not sure either of us would be any happier. I would be able to spend more quality time with the kids, but when you get right down to it I think there are more demands on her time that I have on mine if you count all 24 hours in a day. Ok, now Im totally babbling...

You both are butting heads over work - this last project that he procrastinated on for example. Is this not his exact field of expertise? Was he too busy? Was he not on board with you assigning him work? What do you think is the real issue here?

If your account is accurate and complete on all this - he sounds like he is very close to being baggage and needs a reality slap. At the ery least you need to figure out what needs to change and then impliment your plan. Hopefully with his assistance, but without if necessary. Its a hell of a lot easier if you can both agree to changes with the goal of making both of your lives better.

So. What is one thing you need to change that might help? Is it his full-time employment outside the house? Is that it?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

His behavior has been described as that of a child, and the roles he _chooses_ to fill, like those of a wife.

That combination makes respect virtually impossible, let alone actually feeling attracted to him.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Thanks for this feedback. I see a lot of value in it...you are right....I don't think I would be fulfilled completely if I traded roles.

I think what I am angry about is that I am the only one who seems to want to better our family and our finances. He talks about and dreams about it...but never does anything to accomplish the goal..

Me? I am the one to try a million different things to try and achieve the goal and often fail because I'm so desperately trying to dig myself out of this hole.

For example...today. That project I needed him to do? I just simply asked him to set up a landing page because I was being featured as a guest host on a webinar for "our" new biz. I got the contact...I snagged the interview...I got the call. All I needed him to do was set up the landing page. He does this all the time. I wrote out the content 3 weeks ago. The call was today. He grunted and groaned through it last night..saying the computer was acting up but ended up completing it. It worked when he finished tonight. I asked him to test it before my call...I never heard back. I got on the call...did the hour long interview and at the end realized (sitting next to my ipad) that the site did NOT work. So I got all these hungry customers with no where to send them. So I apologized and gave them my email instead. 

So...will I get anywhere? I got 3 emails...I hope I can still get some business. But THIS is the kind of behavior I'm talking about...no passion...no follow through...Unless it's something HE wants to do. Apparently he could care less that these would be very good paying customers? 

Frustrating. I told him and he just responded by swearing. Then telling me giving out my email wasn't a good idea. What else was I supposed to do?

This is our marriage. Round and round ... same ol story. 


[So. What is one thing you need to change that might help? Is it his full-time employment outside the house? Is that it?[/QUOTE]


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

Deejo I see your point, I do.

Funny thing about 'choices' though... I have a hard time blaming people for taking a path of lesser resistance sometimes. Small decisions that in aggregate.. turn into something else. Apply enough pressure and people make what in retrospect do not look wise choices.

I can imagine how this happens. Move for her new job. He stays home to watch the kids and works consulting. The Nanny gets axed. Crap hits the fan and a business fails - 5 years later - here you are.

I dont mean taking the easy way out or being a limp noodle (ok, maybe not a good analogy)... but I do understand when people look up after 13 years and honestly wonder at how they got to where they are. ow often have you read a story like that? People spend so much of their lives with their nose to the grindstone sometimes you dont even see what is going on.

But - we can all agree - once you get to a crisis point - yes... you have to act.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Thanks for this feedback. I see a lot of value in it...you are right....I don't think I would be fulfilled completely if I traded roles.

I think what I am angry about is that I am the only one who seems to want to better our family and our finances. He talks about and dreams about it...but never does anything to accomplish the goal..

Me? I am the one to try a million different things to try and achieve the goal and often fail because I'm so desperately trying to dig myself out of this hole.

For example...today. That project I needed him to do? I just simply asked him to set up a landing page because I was being featured as a guest host on a webinar for "our" new biz. I got the contact...I snagged the interview...I got the call. All I needed him to do was set up the landing page. He does this all the time. I wrote out the content 3 weeks ago. The call was today. He grunted and groaned through it last night..saying the computer was acting up but ended up completing it. It worked when he finished tonight. I asked him to test it before my call...I never heard back. I got on the call...did the hour long interview and at the end realized (sitting next to my ipad) that the site did NOT work. So I got all these hungry customers with no where to send them. So I apologized and gave them my email instead. 

So...will I get anywhere? I got 3 emails...I hope I can still get some business. But THIS is the kind of behavior I'm talking about...no passion...no follow through...Unless it's something HE wants to do. Apparently he could care less that these would be very good paying customers? 

Frustrating. I told him and he just responded by swearing. Then telling me giving out my email wasn't a good idea. What else was I supposed to do?

This is our marriage. Round and round ... same ol story.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

mega1 said:


> I think what I am angry about is that I am the only one who seems to want to better our family and our finances. He talks about and dreams about it...but never does anything to accomplish the goal..


This.

I have to say - this is one of the main reasons that I feel very happy with my own marriage. I feel like we are both pulling in the same direction and both expending the effort. Our tactics differ - but I do not doubt it otherwise.

This would be a huge deal for me if it was not the case.

You need to think about what you can change and sit down and have a serious chat about 'what we can do' to make this better. Actually get something moving to get out of the 'talking and dreaming' phase. You sound like you are now outside - looking in on your relationship - and that is not a good place to be.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Yes - I suppose you are right. But, I don't know how to fix it on my own.  He just won't ...and we are so, so deep in financial trouble...that I can't really just say ..."grow up and fix it". I know from past experience that he won't..... so I will HAVE to find our way out. 

So, say my biz takes off (despite his liability) and I become enormously wealthy...would this all go away? That's what I ask myself..

And the answer is no...I don't think so. The financial pressure would be off...but I STILL don't respect a man who I have to go AROUND...instead of work with....Does that make sense?


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

mega1 said:


> The financial pressure would be off...but I STILL don't respect a man who I have to go AROUND...instead of work with....Does that make sense?


It makes sense to me, but I'm not in the relationship.

I think it is logical to ask you why do you stay?

I've heard all I need to about him. You are not happy with him. 

Let me tell you a truth I discovered: When we complain, but do nothing to change our circumstances, it means we are getting some sort of benefit from staying.

Think about it.

What benefit are you getting from this? Forget the financial/legal issues. I'm coming from the emotional perspective.

Why?

Because for you to hang around in this relationship, stress and all, you ARE getting something out of it.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

You are correct. I think to a degree it's a safety net. I think the deepest part of my answer.., would be that I feel as if I would fail on my own without him and it would ten times worse and it would feel even more degrading. I also think I'm scared to death of not being good enough and being married to him protects me feel that FULL reality. Does that make sense? 




Prodigal said:


> It makes sense to me, but I'm not in the relationship.
> 
> I think it is logical to ask you why do you stay?
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

I have yet to see a woman respect a man who stays at home and not have a steady job. I think its biological in nature and other men frown upon it. I love my son but I also have an intrinsic need to work and help provide. While I understand your husband does "side work", side work is after your regular job IMHO. I do some consulting on the side and it helps pay the bills and build up savings.

Ultimately you need to tell your husband to be gainfully employed. Plain and simple. He needs to work a full time job.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

Sanity said:


> ...I think its biological in nature and other men frown upon it..


Respectfully:

'Biological' in nature? Sorry, I'm going to have to call you on that. This is one of those things that gets endlessly regurgitated on this board.. If there is any resistance to 'mr mom', it is sociological, period. Lets not equate any intrinsic need to 'provide' as meaning 'having a job outside the home' or with some mysterious 'biology' that you can't define. I'd also suggest that 'other men frown on it' is a blanket statement that does not apply to me nor to anyone I know frankly. 'Some men may frown on it' would be accurate I suppose if one felt the need to point that out. Do you frown on it? It doesnt make you a bad person... just curious.

This all means nothing specific to how OP feels, but lets not throw up 'biology', nature, or crimes against nature (i know you didnt say this, but it was implied i feel) as a justification or excuse for a relationship that isn't working. Thats crazytalk. 

I'm no expert.. but evolutionary psychology, anthropology, sociology and psychology are minor interests of mine, and I believe this line of thinking, when looked at closely, is a bad assumption and really unhelpful. Literature seems to say so.

Sorry. I don't want to hijack the thread nor start an argument with the 'we are cavemen' aficionados here... But I wanted to offer that before this perception it is blindly breezed over and accepted as 'fact'.

..one link: http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/the_daddy_brain 

Another:
"Another myth worth highlighting says that the domestic division of labor is biologically determined. There’s a myth that women are biologically and evolutionary better adapted to activities that demand care and compassion, while men are adapted to better compete in hierarchal social groups. As I argue in the book, this fails to take into account that people are adaptable, that our life experiences shape our brains right down to a cellular level, and that male caregiving has deep evolutionary roots. Many male primates take care of children; marmoset daddies hold their babies 70 percent of the time. Many human cultures have embraced male caregiving, from contemporary Sweden to the Aka pygmies of central Africa to the Na people of China."

https://workfamily.sas.upenn.edu/si...networknews/The_Network_News_Interview_60.pdf

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

There comes a point where the depth of the sh!t you are in, can actually be liberating.

Arguably, things CAN'T get much worse for you. I tell this to people all of the time, do the checks and balances. List what you resent about him, what his behavior has cost you, then list his good qualities, what he brings to the table and why you continue to value him and the relationship.

Then, choose.

There is a very simple and undeniable fact when weighing in on these circumstances. Do I think it's ALL his fault? Not likely. Is he going to step up and be the man you can depend on, respect and desire? No. Not likely ... ever.

But, unless and until you are capable of making the decision to leave the marriage, you will stay in this limbo, this feeling stuck, this feeling helpless.

I am telling you from experience. The moment you 'choose', everything changes. Will it be easier? Not out of the gate, no. But you will feel more in-control of yourself, your affairs, and where your life is going the moment you choose to end this life that isn't going anywhere you want it to.

But it requires that choice. 

And if you aren't ready to make it, then you shouldn't. But, I've seen people put it off, give multiple last-chances, rationalize, and ring their hands over the fact that their partner won't change or won't do the right thing. I understand that you probably still care about this man. My point is, he doesn't care enough about you, or the marriage to change how he operates. Don't forget that.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Thank you for your honest feedback. 

So here's how it lines up right now. Not 4 years or 4 months ago. Right now. 

My husband works 12 hours a week for a temp agency. He works in the morning while our son is in school. That job will last only another month. 
He takes freelance projects when they come to HIM. He relies on me for lead generation. When I stop working on our side business... He doesn't even ask a question. He's OUT. 

I'm currently working 50 hours a week with my primary job (required hours) and then work about 15 hours a week on side business education and lead generation. 

We are currently in bankruptcy. We have a lease on a home for 2 years that is out of budget for just my income. 

He wanted a part time nanny for when he might have unexpected projects. I said no. 

He DOES pick up our son after school and help him with homework. He also makes dinner at night. 

He's not rude normally. Although he's what a lot of people have mentioned as a person who may have aspergers. He just doesn't "get it" many times. 

He has no problem with me dealing with the bankruptcy alone. I hired the attorney, did all the paperwork (a lot), appeared in court... He never so much as picked up the phone. 

For my bday he gave me a 20 dollar picture frame that had a dollar bill in it. I asked him what it was and he snapped back that it was a symbol of my first dollar in my new business and HE believes will make me millions someday. Happy birthday to me. 

So, I ask you.. How much am I coping with that I shouldn't?  It's hard to see the forest through the trees. 





Deejo said:


> There comes a point where the depth of the sh!t you are in, can actually be liberating.
> 
> Arguably, things CAN'T get much worse for you. I tell this to people all of the time, do the checks and balances. List what you resent about him, what his behavior has cost you, then list his good qualities, what he brings to the table and why you continue to value him and the relationship.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

The circumstances don't matter. They really don't. Someone, somewhere likely has it a hell of a lot worse or harder than you have it or I had it.

What matters is the choice.

The pain and fear of your current circumstances does not outweigh the pain and fear of the unknown without him.

The lease on the house neednt affect your choice.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Well, I will admit that my need for attraction and intimacy ...and a secure, responsible man....seems to pale in comparison to my fears of divorce for our 7 year old. I have thought it might be better to just have an affair to cope with my life. I know that's not the right answer but it just feels selfish do blow up a marriage. I must have issues... 





Deejo said:


> The circumstances don't matter. They really don't. Someone, somewhere likely has it a hell of a lot worse or harder than you have it or I had it.
> 
> What matters is the choice.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Playing the martyr won't get you anywhere other than more resentful. Your 7 year old wants happy parents, it matters not whether this is achieved in the same household or in separate residences.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

No...you are right. And maybe I am acting like a martyr?


Here's what I wonder...would most people in my situation...be upset and on verge of divorce? Of course, history tells a much stronger tale....but, I know most people would be shocked at this...

He makes me dinner...
He does laundry...

Contrary to what many might say...I think it's a tough place for a woman to be in. I know some might say oh wow he does all of this housework etc...

But, it IS hard to respect someone who leaves the woman to handle ALL the planning for life in general.

We don't own a house. I'm bankrupt. I seem to be the only one concerned with digging us out. We rent an extremely nice home...that we can't afford on our current ONE salary. I am burning candle at both ends to make ends meet and plan for a safety net...

He will give me coffee in the morning...call me and ask what I want for dinner. Irons his own clothing.... so, with all that "service" and kindness...it's really hard to say...you know...I don't like this anymore. But, truth be told...I had an entire conversation this morning about launching a new business with a former colleage....to make enough money to pay our taxes next year. I didn't even TELL my husband about it...because he will only complicate the issue. He will NOT offer to help me.

I had a consulting call today for our "side business". I lined it up but he never even offered to help me schedule etc... and I had to squeeze it in while I was at my normal "day job"..and he was taking our dog to the groomer.... 

See what I'm saying?


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

I see what you're saying. It's clear he's not a partner, not in the way YOU want him to be. No doubt about it. He's content to cook and clean and run errands for the household. 

Do you see what *I'm* saying?

You have 2 choices here. Accept the position you are currently in, and not expect changes from him otherwise (it's not likely he'll suddenly be the man you wish him to be), OR...

Make plans to separate, because as the saying goes, you can do bad all by yourself.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

There is that other option.

You could choose to have an affair ... 
Find your emotional oasis with someone else.

What do you believe his response would be to discovering you were having an affair? What would your response be were the tables turned and you discovered he was having an affair?


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

I totally see what you are saying....but I ask...am I just being a diva and need to get over it? 

I didn't come from the strongest of families! My parents fought all the time...so I don't think I know what it's like to be truly "happy"...so I ask these questions because at 38 years old...I don't think I know what is "normal" and what's "kick to the curb"...

I went to a therapist a few months back and I know he thought I was ridiculously weak in my personal life but strong professionally.

But, I feel like a mess now..and worry it would only be WORSE.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

Maybe you should suggest moving to somewhere you can afford. A little, tiny apartment.

While you both putz around in stasis - the hole you both are digging is getting deeper. This financial mess is going to wind up making your choices for you if you dont take control of it and try to get ahead of it. Are you living above your means currently? 'An extremely nice home' is going to put the nails into this relationship anyway.

Once the financial question clears a little then perhaps you will feel less stuck in a corner. Im not tying to be glib or oversimplify what you are saying. Your situation looks to me like a pretty bad hand you are being dealt. Maybe then you will feel more free to divorce or work it out with a clear head.

Sounds like this guy isnt going to help, unfortuntely. Is it really that? Is he really thinking "she doesnt need my help" or is he simply pretty sure that everything will work out and that you 'worry to much'?


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

I had an EA a long time ago...and he discovered it. He went all bonkers and told my parents (people he was NOT close to)...

But, he didn't get "mad" ....really. I think he was hurt...but when I told him it was symptom of our problems...he just turned into a victim. I KNOW that no one deserves that...but strangely I just got mad at his victim response....instead of feeling bad. Although, I ended it...and tried to think of my son...

I am religious...but, I also feel trapped. 



Deejo said:


> There is that other option.
> 
> You could choose to have an affair ...
> Find your emotional oasis with someone else.
> ...


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Why do you care what most people would do? There are only two people in your marriage and one of them is happy playing Betty Crocker and the other one is tired of being ridden hard and put up wet.

You want a partner who you can respect and Betty isn't cutting it.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

mega1 said:


> I had an EA a long time ago...and he discovered it. He went all bonkers and told my parents (people he was NOT close to)...
> 
> But, he didn't get "mad" ....really. I think he was hurt...but when I told him it was symptom of our problems...he just turned into a victim. I KNOW that no one deserves that...but strangely I just got mad at his victim response....instead of feeling bad. Although, I ended it...and tried to think of my son....


mmm hmmm. The plot thickens.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Forgive me for being dense...but what do you mean...Anotherguy?


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

Sorry, I wasnt trying to be funny. 

Many times when someone comes to the site for advice.. the story leaks out...gradually. Its hard for people to give solid advice unless they have all the facts of the entire situation. This stuck me an an important 'factoid' thats all. Maybe it doesnt change anything. 

Was it really resolved? ("...I think he was hurt..."). Think?


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

I don't think he thinks that this will work out...and I worry too much. I see what happens when he hears things aren't working out like he wants them to...and he gets pretty ticked off.

He heard that my lawyer screwed up a document on the bankruptcy and that I needed to go for another hearing and he freaked. He said..we aren't going to have to pay any of that debt back, right? When I told him that YES ...we probably will..he got ticked and said I should sue my attorney and then suggested I hide some things to allow this to go through quickly. I didn't do that...but he knows the bomb is ticking...he just doesn't want to acknowledge it. 

As for my EA..I didn't mention it because it was long ago...but Yes, I'm sure it was a sign of what I'm STILL dealing with... 



anotherguy said:


> Maybe you should suggest moving to somewhere you can afford. A little, tiny apartment.
> 
> While you both putz around in stasis - the hole you both are digging is getting deeper. This financial mess is going to wind up making your choices for you if you dont take control of it and try to get ahead of it. Are you living above your means currently? 'An extremely nice home' is going to put the nails into this relationship anyway.
> 
> ...


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

mega1 said:


> I don't think he thinks that this will work out...and I worry too much. I see what happens when he hears things aren't working out like he wants them to...and he gets pretty ticked off.
> 
> He heard that my lawyer screwed up a document on the bankruptcy and that I needed to go for another hearing and he freaked. He said..we aren't going to have to pay any of that debt back, right? When I told him that YES ...we probably will..he got ticked and said I should sue my attorney and then suggested I hide some things to allow this to go through quickly. I didn't do that...but he knows the bomb is ticking...he just doesn't want to acknowledge it.
> 
> As for my EA..I didn't mention it because it was long ago...but Yes, I'm sure it was a sign of what I'm STILL dealing with...


All of this sounds like he's only interested in his own comfort. You leave (with the income), he has to step up for himself. You stay (with the income), he can be Betty Crocker. (thanks Blondilocks)


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

A Bit Much said:


> All of this sounds like he's only interested in his own comfort. You leave (with the income), he has to step up for himself. You stay (with the income), he can be Betty Crocker. (thanks Blondilocks)


devils advocate:

...something she signed up for since the beginning. She has been the breadwinner for 13 years. I am supposed to feel bad for her now that she is getting tired? Suddenly after a failed business she wants to be taken care of. Suddenly this is HIS fault and he needs to adopt sweeping lifestyle changes so she can be Mrs. Soccer Mom? Did he sign up for that deal?

We all do what is needed hopefully - as adults. But there is more than one side to this story, seems to me - regardless of the 'man up' crowd here and the sneering comments about Betty Crocker. Grow up. She made this bed she is sleeping in.

Im being coarse and hyperbolic just to make a point.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Well, when we met...I was only making about 5k more than he was...but it grew substantially. His income did not....

I think to myself...what if he started working on this business and was making enough money to get us out of this mess? Would I respect him more? 

The answer is yes I would. I have seen myself really change my attitude toward him when he appears to step up to the plate. 

But, that's not the case now. And very commonly, when he does step up..it's short-lived OR he completely blows it. 

Therapist told me to stop enabling. So I started to give him more responsibility. Is it working? Well, here's a way to look at it.

Our son has a peanut allergy. He needs an epi pen. I got a call 2 weeks ago from the school nurse telling me that we hadn't dropped off ANY medication to the office. I asked my husband....he said Oh I'll take care of it. He did take our son to the doctor and get an RX just for the school. Now... TODAY...I got a call from the school nurse telling me that she doesn't have any paperwork that would allow the school to use it if there was an Emergency. I called husband....he still hasn't turned it in. 

SO????


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

Ugh. You keep saying it in different ways: He is inept.

'giving him more responsibility'. This makes me actually cringe.


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## bluelaser (May 26, 2012)

mega1 said:


> I had a consulting call today for our "side business". I lined it up but he never even offered to help me schedule etc...


What's the nature if this side business?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I sincerely hope people aren't making sneering comments about Betty Crocker as she is a time honored symbol of the happy homemaker.

Betty doesn't care who wears the apron as long as it is freshly cleaned and starched and paid for.

It would also be helpful if one read all of the OP's posts before playfully adopting the role of Devil's Advocate.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

Blondilocks said:


> I sincerely hope people aren't making sneering comments about Betty Crocker as she is a time honored symbol of the happy homemaker.
> 
> Betty doesn't care who wears the apron as long as it is freshly cleaned and starched and paid for.
> 
> It would also be helpful if one read all of the OP's posts before playfully adopting the role of Devil's Advocate.


Oh puh lease.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Consulting...in the same profession that my husband and I both worked in.... (he left...but I'm still in). 




bluelaser said:


> What's the nature if this side business?


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

To answer the question about sex, I've lost the ability to feel comfortable around him. There was a time before therapy, where he used to come into my shower and make comments about my body. Like .. Wow you lost some weight... You look good. Etc. keep it up. I'm a size 4 and always have been. I work out. 

I told him that made me feel really judged and uncomfortable. It's just one of those areas where he doesn't "get it". 

Since then and other odd things regarding my appearance, I just feel awkward around him. He's very mechanical and always has been...but this kind of judgement made it worse. 

He does like to hug me in bed at times because I think he thinks it will lead to sex. I usually grin and bear it at least once a month, out of obligation. But I feel like I have to be drinking to do it. Maybe that's just how it is after 13 years? I have sexual urges. Just not with him. 



mega1 said:


> Consulting...in the same profession that my husband and I both worked in.... (he left...but I'm still in).


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

I read the whole thread and I'm afraid that to me, mega, you sound very VERY critical of your husband. 

I agree with the poster above who said you two need to drastically scale back your lifestyle and live within your means. That your husband is frugal during a bankruptcy is a good thing. 

First you said he didn't get you a b'day gift, then he got you a frame with a dollar in it. 

Yes it was cheesy, but it strikes me as sweet. Sounds like he was trying in his quirky asperger way.

I agree with the poster above who said the "no sex" = huge problem. Your words about all those positive people at work make me wonder if you are fantasizing about someone else? (another EA?)

You got permission from enough TAM people to dump him. Just remember:


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

You know in all honesty... I am critical of him. I used to think he hung the moon but then I started to see how he was not there for me. Gas leak at the house... He leaves.. AC goes out, he tells me to handle it. Dr appt for possible cancer... He doesn't come with... 

I have been married to him for 13 years and I can't seem to shake all of those moments where he totally screwed me. Now, I file for bankruptcy and he doesn't even help or attend... 

I truly see that he's "trying" by making dinners and helping around the house. But I need him to try in the revenue generating capacity. 

And yes.. The sex thing is a problem. He doesn't initiate. And doesn't talk about it. Long time ago he told me that was because he didn't want to be a bother to me... 

I talk about positive people at work... Because they laugh and joke. I'm not getting male attention. I'm just talking about the overall vibe is noticeably different.., 





Blonde said:


> I read the whole thread and I'm afraid that to me, mega, you sound very VERY critical of your husband.
> 
> I agree with the poster above who said you two need to drastically scale back your lifestyle and live within your means. That your husband is frugal during a bankruptcy is a good thing.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

_As for my EA..I didn't mention it because it was long ago...but Yes, I'm sure it was a sign of what I'm STILL dealing with... _

Sounds like you were (or are) angry/resentful/disappointed that the EA wasn't a wake-up call for your H to get working on some problems. It sure was for me!


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

mega1 said:


> You know in all honesty... I am critical of him. I used to think he hung the moon but then I started to see how he was not there for me. Gas leak at the house... He leaves.. AC goes out, he tells me to handle it. Dr appt for possible cancer... He doesn't come with...
> 
> I have been married to him for 13 years and I can't seem to shake all of those moments where he totally screwed me. Now, I file for bankruptcy and he doesn't even help or attend...
> 
> ...


Honestly though, some of your statements @ your husband sound contemptuous to me. I understand how he could feel like he's a massive failure in your eyes. 

http://www.gottmanblog.com/2013/05/the-four-horsemen-contempt.html

The financial problems, you could approach them by reducing expenses rather than increasing revenue. You can downsize your lifestyle and have more time for your family.

You can re-frame the way you see your husband. Instead of rolling your eyes with contempt here:



> For my bday he gave me a 20 dollar picture frame that had a dollar bill in it. I asked him what it was and he snapped back that it was a symbol of my first dollar in my new business and HE believes will make me millions someday. Happy birthday to me.


You mentioned your family name being well known when you talked about your ring- choosing the $$$ one and signing a credit slip. Were you raised in a rich family? 

Lots of women would be happy with an H who is frugal, brings in 70K (formerly- but he gave that up for *you* to relocate for your career), and gives them a cheesy $20 picture frame with a $ in it and well wishes for her business. Maybe for his sake, you should let him go find a woman who will be happy with him? 

You will, of course, remain connected in some ways for life by the child.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

mega1 said:


> I totally see what you are saying....but I ask...am I just being a diva and need to get over it?


:iagree:

But you need some help with the "getting over it" process



mega1 said:


> I went to a therapist a few months back and I know he thought I was ridiculously weak in my personal life but strong professionally.


Could you return to therapy and get some pointers about how to improve your personal life?

mega, I'm sorry if I am coming across as harsh but the therapist was right. You don't strike me as an easy woman to be married to and I don't think you will find greener grass with someone else.

The creditors are going to take everything anyway. Why work so hard for $ that is going to be taken away? That's how I would feel and I wonder if your H feels that way? Yet you throw yourself into 50 hrs a week PLUS the extra job? Why? 



mega1 said:


> *I went to a therapist a few months back and I know he thought I was* ridiculously weak in my personal life but *strong professionally*.


Here is an idea which might help your marriage: Marriage Help Program For Couples


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

No I was raised very poor. Have earned every red cent on my own. 

And "I" did not want to relocate. He did. He wanted me to take that job so he could quit HIS job and work on his business. Which obviously is more like ME trying to find business for him. 

Here's something that I thought might be telling. He found out via email last night that he won an award at his old workplace. Results from entry just case in. 
A woman emailed him to tell him but the woman failed to mention in the email that he won along with his previous boss. But previous boss was copied on the email. 

The boss replied to that email and said "I was on the award too". Well that set my husband off. He was livid. He said "how dare her. She's aways got to try to take the attention". 

He was SO angry. And said he couldn't stand her because she "questioned him" 

I don't know what that means specifically but I thought it revealed something about his feelings toward smart women. 

Am I crazy? I just Wonder if that's how he feels about me? 




Blonde said:


> Honestly though, some of your statements @ your husband sound contemptuous to me. I understand how he could feel like he's a massive failure in your eyes.
> 
> Relationship and Marriage Advice | The Gottman Relationship Blog: The Four Horsemen: Contempt
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

I'm not an easy woman to be married to? Because I expect a team? 

And if I stopped working so hard we'd be homeless. We aren't going to have creditors taking anything. We don't own anything. High rent and leased cars. They can't take those away and won't allow us to move but it would cost too much to break the lease. 






Blonde said:


> :iagree:
> 
> But you need some help with the "getting over it" process
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

mega1 said:


> I don't know what that means specifically but I thought it revealed something about his feelings toward smart women.
> 
> Am I crazy? I just Wonder if that's how he feels about me?


I find very strange that he isn't interested in sex with his wife.

Maybe he feels like you are his mother? Sex with mom=blech.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

For awhile he was addicted to porn. I discovered that because he didn't want actual sex. He wanted me to give him a hand job. 
He went to therapy and said he was over it...

He does make comments about how hot I look etc now but all I hear his a canned line that I'm sure his therapist told him to say instead of commenting on my weight or suggesting I get bigger boobs which he did say. And suggested I inflate my lips. . 



Blonde said:


> I find very strange that he isn't interested in sex with his wife.
> 
> Maybe he feels like you are his mother? Sex with mom=blech.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

> I'm not an easy woman to be married to? Because I expect a team?


No, because of the contempt you feel and express toward him.



mega1 said:


> And if I stopped working so hard we'd be homeless.


Would that be so terrible? Temporarily I mean. Let the leases go, ratchet down to a modest lifestyle, and get the weight of the world off your shoulders...


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

mega1 said:


> For awhile he was addicted to porn. I discovered that because he didn't want actual sex. He wanted me to give him a hand job.
> He went to therapy and said he was over it...
> 
> He does make comments about how hot I look etc now but all I hear his a canned line that I'm sure his therapist told him to say instead of* commenting on my weight or suggesting I get bigger boobs which he did say. And suggested I inflate my lips*. .


open mouth, insert foot!

My H has the tendency to ^^

Marriage Help Program For Couples gave us some communication tools which he uses effectively to avoid being such a bull in a china shop

The fact that your H listened to the therapist is a good sign, mega. He is willing to learn how to speak with more sensitivity (even though it is behavior modification and not heart change, the fact that he is willing to do it shows good faith and a degree of concern @ your marriage)


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

I actually tried to get my husband to go to that after the EA. but he didn't want to. He said our therapy was only making things worse and he thought the same of that catholic retreat. 

This was after he suggested I sue my mother for my dad's life insurance. Even though it was all that she had to live on... I didn't thank goodness.... But that's why I suggested that retreat. 





Blonde said:


> open mouth, insert foot!
> 
> My H has the tendency to ^^
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sapphire1 (Sep 24, 2013)

Ugh...I hate to hear about these downward spirals that happen in marriages  So sorry that you are going through this.

Enough is enough, stop the spiral now and take control. It is possible to save your marriage, but the critical point is does your H know that you BOTH need to make changes? That's one part of a very important conversation you need to have. My STBXH and I had this conversation too late, when he already made the decision that we needed to seperate. Also, he feels like I'M the one that needs to make changes, not him. So how can that work? We'll go back to the way we were in no time. I think that's your first step.

Sex is a big issue. Huge. Without sex you might as well be roommates. I've never met a guy with a low sexdrive, although I have read a lot of posters here that say they do exist, so I believe them. But I'm sure he's probably a little desperate too. I think a part of both your attitudes to each other is because of your lack of intimacy. Being both emotionally and physically romantic with each other. I understand where you are, why you've withdrawn, and I also understand what you mean when he says things to you that make you feel uncomfortable/insecure about being physically intimate with him. This needs to be a part of your conversation with him. Be honest and specific, this is so important I hope his reaction is one of huge concern and one that he wants to work on. Being romantic with each other is so important.

You take all responsibility on your shoulders, that's the type of woman you are. You pick up the slack if you need to. H lets you, and doesn't voluntarily pick up any slack if you need him to. You ask for things that never get done. Sounds a lot like my married life before the seperation. At least he cooks for you everyday because he knows he's home more and not the breadwinner. Mine wouldn't even do that. Letting you do eveything is now a habit for him. Your only choice is to stop doing things. Make your expectations very clear, and hopefully you both can come to an agreement on how to make you BOTH happy with responsibilities. He may not want to, he may say ok and not do it, he may do it for awhile and quit, but you cannot do it for him and pick up the slack again. He has to be responsible too. For me...this was the stalemate....we could not agree. IMHO - if he doesn't want to change or help, you should consider seperation to let him know you're serious, and you're not happy. Last resort, but will get his attention. Don't threaten it until you're ready to do it, and then do it.

You both are going through a very hard time, between moving/no family/money problems/business/work....it doesn't help with the emotions and attitudes. But it's time for you both to address it head on and change it. Now. Before it gets any worse....because it will.

Also, with him being a negative person. That's just the core of who he is...combined with the personal strains going on right now just exacerbates it I'm sure. That's something he needs to work on the inside of himself. Also his choice. There's no reason you have to deal with a person who wants to be negative all the time. When you bring this up to him be ready for his criticisms of your attitude, because I'm sure it will be brought up. Be willing to change too, and work on things. It will all work out if you can come together, but you BOTH have to be willing to meet in the middle. 

For his birthday, get him something, but not of high $$ value. Something special...if you still love him you can show him. Try and remember the good times in the beginning and see if you can suprise him with an emotional token. Nothing wrong with you putting more effort in a birthday, it's a tough time so things are a little messed up right now. You will know that you did your best.


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## Renatta (Sep 26, 2013)

It sounds like you are both depressed right now, which is hard because neither one of you can support the other when you are both so low. I would definitely look into MC. It sounds like you resent him and that is a marriage killer. You say you want a positive force in your life, well make that start with you. Do you compliment him much? Tell him what he does well, tell him good morning and find something to be positive about? It is hard to be negative to someone when they are so openly positive towards you. I hope that helps. Stay strong, stay positive, count your blessings.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Yes I do compliment him. Actually I think he would be shocked at my true feelings because I am very kind and giving toward him. 

He won't do MC again because he said he doesn't want to hear about his mistakes. 

He often won't even say hello to me when I walk in the door. I have to remind him because even our son is starting to do this bad behavior. He's often rude. Not just too me. 


Renatta said:


> It sounds like you are both depressed right now, which is hard because neither one of you can support the other when you are both so low. I would definitely look into MC. It sounds like you resent him and that is a marriage killer. You say you want a positive force in your life, well make that start with you. Do you compliment him much? Tell him what he does well, tell him good morning and find something to be positive about? It is hard to be negative to someone when they are so openly positive towards you. I hope that helps. Stay strong, stay positive, count your blessings.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Do you 'like' your husband? If so, why?

I don't even know him and I have nothing but disdain for the man you have described.

I think its great there are folks here advocating for your marriage. Sounds to me like you would certainly work at rebuilding a healthy dynamic. Of course it doesnt matter a whit what you would do if your husband doesnt acknowledge the issues and the work required to overcome them.

I think he likes his life at your expense just fine. And in all likelihood, would be indignant if you were to expect him to change it.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

There are a lot of issues with my husband. There's no question. But at the core, he is not a mean person. Stubborn, selfish... And often clueless... Yes. 

But in many areas he is trying to show compassion, despite that I've told him over and over again... It's not my love language. 

He makes meals.. Cleans windows. He enjoys that kind of stuff. He says he likes to do it for me. Me? I've told him I'd eat a microwave meal in trade for a quality conversation. But he won't respect that. He keeps going back to enjoying Mr Mom. But my point is .. I can't say that I don't like him.. When he's trying in his own way. Regardless of the fact he won't respect that it doesn't help me or "us". 

Do I have resentment. Absolutely. I still to this day resent the fact that he acts like a child and won't own his worth. But i don't know if that gives me permission to have disdain for him. 

He's pleasant... And everything is stable... Until I demand changes or more work from him. Then he gets cold and abrasive. So.. I've just avoided it. 




Deejo said:


> Do you 'like' your husband? If so, why?
> 
> I don't even know him and I have nothing but disdain for the man you have described.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

So then? What do you suspect you'll do?

Soldier on?

Have an affair?


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Good question. No I think that through some of the research I've done... He might do a lot of "gaslighting". Conscious or not...

So I think I'm going to go back to therapy, see a divorce attorney and figure out how to get out without destroying our son. 

That's going to be the scary part... 



Deejo said:


> So then? What do you suspect you'll do?
> 
> Soldier on?
> 
> Have an affair?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Good choice.

Your son will be fine ... unless your husband (child that he appears to be) decides to go the route of parental alienation rather than acceptance and co-parenting.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Someone told me that the incident where he didn't get our son his medicine at the school and the nurse had to keep calling me for the paperwork.., is a symptom of an unfit parent. 
This person adviced me to get documentation on that so I could seek primary custody. 

I was wondering if that sounds logical? I work so much, I often feel better with our son being with his dad than w a sitter etc. Am I not acting logical? Sometimes it's hard to see the forest through the trees. 



Deejo said:


> Good choice.
> 
> Your son will be fine ... unless your husband (child that he appears to be) decides to go the route of parental alienation rather than acceptance and co-parenting.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2galsmom (Feb 14, 2013)

I just skipped ahead, are you kidding me? Please be kind to yourself and read your post. YOU are the breadwinner and YOU are declaring bankruptcy to protect HIM? What? So he can rack up more debt and leave you to worry about it? Wouldn't want him to suffer you love him!

Here is what I think &&^[email protected]#$#@!$%#$#@#@!#$##

No way. Good-bye Mr. I could make 70,000 a year but that job is beneath me now, the party is OVER. Cut your losses, mega1. Men like this are a dime a dozen. Love yourself mega1!


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

mega1 said:


> Someone told me that the incident where he didn't get our son his medicine at the school and the nurse had to keep calling me for the paperwork.., is a symptom of an unfit parent.
> This person adviced me to get documentation on that so I could seek primary custody.
> 
> I was wondering if that sounds logical? I work so much, I often feel better with our son being with his dad than w a sitter etc. Am I not acting logical? Sometimes it's hard to see the forest through the trees.
> ...


So ... who would you rather pay to watch your son? Daycare or aftercare where he interacts with other kids? Or child support to your ex-husband who doesn't want to work?


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Well I see what you are saying. I just believe in strong parent relationships, so I worry. 

Tonight has been a bust. He wanted to take md to a special dinner for our anniversary but I started talking... Which wasn't good of course. I told him that I'm stressed about money and the bankruptcy. He is very upset. He Just keeps saying that his freelance work would be easier if I could call my friends and help him get meetings as opposed to him cold calling. 

It hasn't gone well. He is starting the cold treatment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## luvintokyo (May 10, 2010)

I once had a man like this, this forum gave me the strength to cut the umbilical cord. I refused to declare bankruptcy, he chose to fo freelance work while we were married, now he works regularly now that we are not. He always avoided anything related to finances now I get more in child support every month than I ever got married to him. Trust me, listen to all these folks, nobody who loves will put you through hell like this. Read the book "Boundaries". They hate for you to see the "light". They want to stay irresponsible because simply put they are just lazy. Dont waste your energy and whats left of your youth. He will wear you out and rob your children of their future. If he has no money now now he obviously has nothing saved for college, its not only you its the kids as well.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

You know, he just has a power over me. I hate that *i* have to be the one to consistently point out the problems with our finances. I mean, he just told me last night he wants to go buy a new desk for his work at home....

Yes he gets freelance jobs and has one this month. But like I mentioned, he relies on me to actually get work. He will do it IF he gets a job served to him on a platter. The issue really comes down to the fact that I can't handle my own work and try to recruit business for him. And these jobs are only keeping us afloat... NOT getting us out of the hole we are in. 

When I pointed all this out to him last night ... He got so mad and cold. He said its clear that he's a failure. He shut me out. Give me the cold shoulder and when I asked what I did? He just said I didnt make him feel very good about himself. He then went on to be cold and stoic for the rest of the night. 

So that's what I get for trying to tell him about our issues. (






luvintokyo said:


> I once had a man like this, this forum gave me the strength to cut the umbilical cord. I refused to declare bankruptcy, he chose to fo freelance work while we were married, now he works regularly now that we are not. He always avoided anything related to finances now I get more in child support every month than I ever got married to him. Trust me, listen to all these folks, nobody who loves will put you through hell like this. Read the book "Boundaries". They hate for you to see the "light". They want to stay irresponsible because simply put they are just lazy. Dont waste your energy and whats left of your youth. He will wear you out and rob your children of their future. If he has no money now now he obviously has nothing saved for college, its not only you its the kids as well.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

He should never have quit his $70K year job w/o another equal or better one lined up. People with need children need steady employment. All of these "side" businesses with potential don't pay all of the bills if you have to file bankruptcy. I think your husband is very lazy when it comes to outside paid employment. Sure he's good around the home but that work doesn't pay the bills.

Financial problems are marriage killers. You can't make him work more, change his lazy & unmotivated attitude about outside paid work. It's who he is. He has proven history which is the best indicator of future behavior. Stop enabling him by trying to get him work or helping with his "projects." Your plate is full with your own 50 hr. a week job plus parenting.

Downsize now. Find a cheaper apartment & try to break your car leases & buy cheaper cars for cash. Sell stuff you don't really need. Read "Co-Dependent No More" for insight.

You are right. You both don't work together as a team. He thinks by cooking for you & washing windows will shut you up, leave him alone to do whatever he wants. Personally, I would insist he gets full time paid work. End of story.

Also if you have a pension at work, the longer you stay married, the more he will get if you divorce when you retire. Look into "Quadros." I have a friend who was married for 14 years & his ex wife is receiving 25% of his pension for the rest of her life. That's a big chunk of change. A divorce attorney or mediator can provide you with an estimate for your particular circumstances.

Finally, why can't your husband greet you when you walk in the door? That is rude & disrespectful. There may be something mentally wrong with him and/or he doesn't want to acknowledge you due to some weird resentment toward you.

I think you married this man w/o really knowing who he was deep inside. You had insecurities & he made you feel good. Now 13 yrs. later you see a different person whom you don't like very much. Maybe counseling can help you stay in the marriage.

Remember people CAN change but only if they want to.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Respectfully, you can continue to post about how poorly he behaves, and how you feel bad and confused as a result.

You are on a site where literally hundreds of people have been through what you are experiencing.

Heres the bottom line;

Nothing changes if nothing changes.

Are you in therapy? Might want to explore codependency, and your complete absence of boundaries and self respect.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Understood. Yes, I'll get myself back into therapy. 

I do need self respect. This is true. I was an abuse victim growing up... And while I've overcome a lot... I think this is a great example of how I haven't overcome all of my challenges. 



Deejo said:


> Respectfully, you can continue to post about how poorly he behaves, and how you feel bad and confused as a result.
> 
> You are on a site where literally hundreds of people have been through what you are experiencing.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## greenfern (Oct 20, 2012)

Mega, can I ask some questions? I read the posts and don't think they were answered, sorry if they are repeats.

1. Whose 'bad business deal' caused you to go bankrupt? Was it yours?

2. You refer to your sideline business using quotes around "ours" - is this something your husband is actually interested in doing or are is it your business and you have convinced him to help out?

I also want to address the comment about your husband not giving the papers to the school about medication for your child, and if that could help you get full custody, that sounds like a really horrible tactic to me. It sounds like he is a pretty good dad and to try to use something like this to get custody is low. With your schedule it doesn't sound like you could manage full time custody in any case.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Thanks. 

It was his bad business deal that basically forced the filing. 

As for the business. He wants the business. It was his idea, but he only wants to do one part of it. I literally snuck out of my day job on a "break" and did an hour consulting last week. 




greenfern said:


> Mega, can I ask some questions? I read the posts and don't think they were answered, sorry if they are repeats.
> 
> 1. Whose 'bad business deal' caused you to go bankrupt? Was it yours?
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## greenfern (Oct 20, 2012)

Ok fair enough, he caused the bankruptcy & it is his business that you are agreeing to participate in, but have now essentially taken over (resentfully) right?

Well I don't know, you sound really similar to me a couple years ago and I think you have already left him in your mind and am now looking for legitimate "reasons" to leave. Can I ask more about your previous ea? Do you find yourself looking around now, thinking that other people would be more suitable as a husband? (or lover). I really don't ask this judgementally as I was in the same boat in my marriage.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

I will admit I absolutely do find Myself looking around, unfortunately. I see dynamics in different relationships but overall, I don't see anyone feeling like I do... Complete cash cow. He's happy to make his normal amount if it's served up to him but he won't do anything to help me... That's uncomfortable. 


I just wish I had a man who paid for my dinners and treated me well. Respected me. That's all I want. My husband won't do that but he makes me feel guilty for wanting more by offering to rub my back or make me dinner. Seriously, I feel terrible telling him I need more.. When he serves me food or does my laundry. That's prob my codependency. But I honestly have NO desire for sex w him. But I do daydream about other men...





greenfern said:


> Ok fair enough, he caused the bankruptcy & it is his business that you are agreeing to participate in, but have now essentially taken over (resentfully) right?
> 
> Well I don't know, you sound really similar to me a couple years ago and I think you have already left him in your mind and am now looking for legitimate "reasons" to leave. Can I ask more about your previous ea? Do you find yourself looking around now, thinking that other people would be more suitable as a husband? (or lover). I really don't ask this judgementally as I was in the same boat in my marriage.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

"You know, he just has a power over me. " Sorry, but that is right out of some bad country/western song.

The only power he has over you is what you give him. Take back your power and start doing your own laundry and making your own dinners. 180 him. He isn't going to give you anything he doesn't want to give you and he doesn't want to give you what you need and ask for.

The desk isn't worthy of any more than an eyeroll.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

I read the first page and then flipped to the last. I agree with Deejo.

While this guy may not be the cat's pajamas, I see a lot of codependency from your behavior. Getting some help for that will aid you both in your marriage, and in life in general. You are trying to control your husband's behavior, that will not work. You can not control him, so improve yourself and work on your own personal issues, and if things get better, great. If you set certain boundaries for your life and they are being crossed, then it's up to you to enforce the consequences.

A great resource is coda.org, they have free meetings all over the place.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

mega1 said:


> To answer the question about sex, I've lost the ability to feel comfortable around him. There was a time before therapy, where he used to come into my shower and make comments about my body. Like .. Wow you lost some weight... You look good. Etc. keep it up. I'm a size 4 and always have been. I work out.
> 
> I told him that made me feel really judged and uncomfortable. It's just one of those areas where he doesn't "get it".
> 
> ...



How come you expect him to give you back something when you seem to be very obviously disgusted and repelled by him(and which he probably know)



> And yes.. The sex thing is a problem. He doesn't initiate. And doesn't talk about it. Long time ago he told me that was because he didn't want to be a bother to me...


Do you understand what this actually means ?

Tell us a bit more about your EA.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Well, when he initiates (basically never) I don't turn him down unless it's at an obviously bad time. But he didn't know I didn't want it.... As a good catholic wife... I would proceed. 

As for my EA... What do you want to know? It was 3 years ago. Actually began after my husband suggested I go to dinner w the guy.,, he told me maybe the relationship would lead to a good business deal. He consistently suggests I go to lunch/dinner w men who he knows flirt a me... Saying he trusts me and just wants me to get the networking connections. 




warlock07 said:


> How come you expect him to give you back something when you seem to be very obviously disgusted and repelled by him(and which he probably know)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Last post was the brown icing on the cucka cake. He wants you to use your sex appeal to sell? His is almost p!mping you. 

The portrait you paint is horrible.

Write a note, telling him to find a job and pull his weight or you will divorce him.

Set a deadline. If when the D is pending, he gets a job and shapes up, you can fall in love and cancel. He is the kind of person who may do well if a fire is lit under his butt. 

Also, is there somebody he respects from planet earth who can spell out what he must do? This person should be able to say "Dude, your wife is going to dump your sorry azz if you don't make money."


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Yes you are right, long walk. 


Thanks to all the support here. And since ive spilled my guts I'd like to say just a bit more. I know I have something wrong in my relationship DNA. 

I don't "like" talking to my husband. I get texts from him complaining about everything and anything all the time during the day. I roll my eye...take a deep breath. But I don't say anything because I don't want to hurt his feelings. He calls me a crazy name all the time and I kindly ask him NOT to call me that. He still does. 

He treats me like a cash cow (as I've noted) and I do not want to be intimate with him. 

But here's the thing? Im not ANGRY enough to drop divorce papers on him tomorrow. I @[email protected] that he's more than deserving, but I start to fall for his back rubs and kind play with our son. 

Why is it that I can't easily file divorce? I truly feel that I'd struggle even if he knocked me out. Is it the codependency? I am hurting myself by staying in this but somehow... I overlook some awful thing....and I see from the outside looking in how awful it is emotionally but I can't feel the burning desire to walk away. I doubt my own judgement. 




LongWalk said:


> Last post was the brown icing on the cucka cake. He wants you to use your sex appeal to sell? His is almost p!mping you.
> 
> The portrait you paint is horrible.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## greenfern (Oct 20, 2012)

I would stop trying to look for anger or reasons, if you do not love him then leave. You sound...I dont' know...just finished. I was there. I tried all kinds of justifications of what my x was doing wrong (similar things to your husband), but years after leaving I realized that actually I was just done with the marriage. I don't regret my decision although the path through and beyond divorce was not easy.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

You need a therapist. Full stop.

Should you look at your contributions to the demise of this relationship? Absolutely. If for no other reason than to be aware of what NOT to do in a future relationship.

Sure people here are going to want to know about your EA, and it's impact on him. I would imagine that the reasons for your EA aren't much different than the reasons that are in play now.
Doesn't matter to me. He's not the one here, you are. 
And guess what we'd be telling him if he were describing your marriage, and talking about his frustration with you, and the fact that he doesn't want to have sex with you, and doesn't feel supported by you?

We'd be telling him to divorce you. 

There are marriages worth saving.

Then there are marriages that were never really marriages in the first place.

In my humble opinion, as a result of the circumstances surrounding your marriage, in combination with the issues that you both obviously have, the two of you can choose to continue existing together, while he parasitizes you, and you enable him, or you can cut the cord and start building something better, and healthier.

What is clear to me, is that you are not ready. You need to decide if you want to take the steps to enable yourself ... to be ready to make a choice, accept it, and execute on it. Regardless of whether it is to stay or to go.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

You are right, I believe. I am working on getting everything squared away. I'm trying to take a tally of where things REALLY are...I also made an appt with a therapist for this week. This will no doubt help...


I will say he just told me that his current projects for this month have already been invoiced. He is definitely coasting on that money....and not proactively looking for anything else...really.

Here's something else that's interesting. I am in a business mastermind group. And today, I started tallying up all of the "mishaps" caused by my husband....directly or indirectly. In 2 months, he's cost me at LEAST 50k worth of work. 

And he's not a dumb guy! He really isn't. In one case...I landed a huge consulting contract with a company --and they were to pay in advance via wire. So, I called my husband and asked him to handle that ..since I was at my "day job". He invoiced them and then gave them a wire number. He initially gave them the wrong wire number..and I corrected it for him. Then, I found out (too late) that the wire was being refused by our bank...because the names didn't match up. Turns out he gave them the account in our son's name. Totally NOT the same name. So....the company bailed on me....and said they had never had so much trouble completing a wire. That was about 35k right there...

I forgave my husband because he said that the bank told him that since he was the trust on the account for our young son...it shouldn't have made a difference. But, he fought and fought...saying it was okay and it was NOT. 

You see ...it's always something.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

And always not his fault. That isn't going to change. Not ever. You should start socking money away, or remove his access to it.

My brother has a parasitic spouse. She doesn't work at all. Spends 'their' money hand over fist. Complains to us about her behavior. I have recommended he take away her debit andcredit cards. Would cause 'too much trouble' in his opinion. They openly despise each other. They claim to stay together for the kids. 

Wont work. Can't work. Not over the long term.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

He's proven incapable of helping you with your business, that's on you now, not him. Separate your business from your marriage, they are two separate things and they do not need to mix nor should they if it creates problems in either.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

This is a remarkable update... Tonight, my husband asked if we could go away to a resort for the weekend. 300.00 a night... 

Hmmmmmm....sounds PERFECT. We have GOBS of money!


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Your husband sounds pretty...problematic. That said, you're clearly playing the "and here's ANOTHER thing he did wrong" game at this point. Maybe that means you want to leave and you're trying to justify it. That's fine if it's what you want, but there's some reason you're coming here and listing things he does wrong instead of doing it. You're banging your head against a wall. You keep giving examples of how you tried to get him to help with your business and he screwed it up. Well maybe he doesn't want to work with your business, or maybe he's just not capable of helping with it. You're not going to change who he is. You can expect small, incremental improvements from him IF you both put in a lot of work and he actually cares about the marriage. That's the best case scenario. But he's not going to become this fantasy dashing successful man that you have in mind. So you have to decide if you can work with what you have, and if you can't, then you're better off separating. Have you tried MC? 

I might be reading in too much, but some of your posts sound a little confused about what you want out of life. You say you want a "successful man" who lets you be you and takes the pressure off you. But do you want to be the other side of that kind of relationship? Do you want to be a homemaker or a hostess type? You sound like you have ambition -- most people who need money just apply for jobs, they don't start their own businesses. It's natural to have a fantasy, especially when you're under so much pressure, and you don't have to figure out exactly what you want now. But it's worth thinking about in the long run. Would you be ok being the one making the dinners and doing the laundry in exchange for a "successful" man?

One thing I am wondering: why are you living in a house you can't afford and leasing cars you can't afford? It seems like you have set up this situation where there's all this pressure so that he HAS to earn more money, and then you bang your head over and over when he doesn't. Can't you downsize your lifestyle a little? You must be making ok money if (1) your husband used to make 70k, (2) you made more than him and (3) you now make even more than that because you moved for this job that paid you more money. 

One other thing I'm missing -- how exactly did the bankruptcy come about in the first place? You said it was a "bad business deal." Your business? Did he have a role in it? Did you make mistakes or was it just dumb luck. Is it possible he resents the bankruptcy?


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

I think you are absolutely right, John Lee. I do think I am trying to find support for leaving. I am trying to keep the strength because he's being so nice right now. And I truly don't think he's a bad person. I know he's done some manipulative, mean things... Mostly out of immaturity. But right now he's a good cycle... No he's not asking for sex or showing any sign of real intimacy, but he's calling to say hello etc. the little things some don't do.., 

As for the bankruptcy. Here's the deal. A few years ago we leased a house that was MY pick. His was too expensive. This was in the middle but still a stretch. Anyway it turned into a nightmare. It started talking apart. Landlord was a deadbeat (even for this very nice home). I went to an attorney. He drafted a letter. Nothing happened. He told me since we gave fair warning.,, that we could vacate because of the fact he broke laws. So I found a house. Much cheaper. And leased it. Told my husband we had to downgrade ... And he pitched a fit. Anyway. I said your choice come with or not. He did. We the landlord sued! Attorney represented me and it went to mediation. My husband never attended hearings... Did any of the legal work etc. I did it all. I had to settle .. Just to avoid the depositions etc because in the end the landlord knew it would be a way to get money out of me. Well my husband and I were in therapy at the time. Therapist told me to start delegating. So after I agreed to settle for 10k (as opposed to 100k!) . My husband was ticked when I told him. I told him it was the only way. Court would cost 40 or 50. He told me to file bankruptcy then. I said no. I asked him to simply deposit a check in our bank account to cover the settlement. I was at work. He said he did. So on my way home, I dropped off the check to the lawyer. About 3 days later he called me work (he wasn't working) and asked me why our account was overdrawn. I said I don't know! Call bank. He said he was busy. So I did.. Turns out the check had a hold on it and the settler check bounced. Which meant I broke the settlement deal and now owed 150k (w legal fees). He said the bank didn't tell him there was a hold. I later saw that he made the deposit at an ATM and it was on the receipt. 

So THAT is why I had to file bankruptcy. His bank error. 




John Lee said:


> Your husband sounds pretty...problematic. That said, you're clearly playing the "and here's ANOTHER thing he did wrong" game at this point. Maybe that means you want to leave and you're trying to justify it. That's fine if it's what you want, but there's some reason you're coming here and listing things he does wrong instead of doing it. You're banging your head against a wall. You keep giving examples of how you tried to get him to help with your business and he screwed it up. Well maybe he doesn't want to work with your business, or maybe he's just not capable of helping with it. You're not going to change who he is. You can expect small, incremental improvements from him IF you both put in a lot of work and he actually cares about the marriage. That's the best case scenario. But he's not going to become this fantasy dashing successful man that you have in mind. So you have to decide if you can work with what you have, and if you can't, then you're better off separating. Have you tried MC?
> 
> I might be reading in too much, but some of your posts sound a little confused about what you want out of life. You say you want a "successful man" who lets you be you and takes the pressure off you. But do you want to be the other side of that kind of relationship? Do you want to be a homemaker or a hostess type? You sound like you have ambition -- most people who need money just apply for jobs, they don't start their own businesses. It's natural to have a fantasy, especially when you're under so much pressure, and you don't have to figure out exactly what you want now. But it's worth thinking about in the long run. Would you be ok being the one making the dinners and doing the laundry in exchange for a "successful" man?
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Yikes, sounds bad. Yeah, I'd say time to start looking for an exit. Non-ambition is one thing, but this guy is so unreliable -- how can you ever have any kind of real partnership with him? How can you ever really trust him or rely on him for anything?


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

But still, hang on a second. I'm still a little confused about the bankruptcy -- you said his pick of a house was too expensive, but then you picked a house that was cheaper...but then it turned out you couldn't afford that one either?! We must be talking about pretty expensive houses to be looking at a potential $100,000 judgment -- even if it was a two-year lease that'd have to be at least $3000-4000/month rent, right? And now it sounds like you still are paying too much in rent? Something doesn't add up.

The bank story also makes me wonder: why were you only depositing funds to cover the settlement at the last minute? Checks usually take a few days to clear -- were you not aware of that? I'm also a little shocked that the settlement was breached merely because you bounced a check -- it was an error, couldn't your lawyer get you out of that one since you could easily have paid the funds a few days later? Water under the bridge I suppose.

Anyway, none of this excuses your husband's behavior or makes your marriage good. I'm just detecting things besides your husband that might be the source of some problems and stress, but maybe I'm misreading things.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

This was a few years ago and 2 houses ago. As you probably read in the thread we just moved to a new city. He picked the house because it was HIS credit. In bankruptcy. 

And yeah I tried that with the settlement. The guy was eager to get me for every red cent. I served it up on a platter. 

And the reason i thought the check was safe was because the funds were drawn from the same account. Turns out he didn't use that account. I didn't know that. 




John Lee said:


> But still, hang on a second. I'm still a little confused about the bankruptcy -- you said his pick of a house was too expensive, but then you picked a house that was cheaper...but then it turned out you couldn't afford that one either?! We must be talking about pretty expensive houses to be looking at a potential $100,000 judgment -- even if it was a two-year lease that'd have to be at least $3000-4000/month rent, right? And now it sounds like you still are paying too much in rent? Something doesn't add up.
> 
> The bank story also makes me wonder: why were you only depositing funds to cover the settlement at the last minute? Checks usually take a few days to clear -- were you not aware of that? I'm also a little shocked that the settlement was breached merely because you bounced a check -- it was an error, couldn't your lawyer get you out of that one since you could easily have paid the funds a few days later? Water under the bridge I suppose.
> 
> Anyway, none of this excuses your husband's behavior or makes your marriage good. I'm just detecting things besides your husband that might be the source of some problems and stress, but maybe I'm misreading things.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

mega1 said:


> This was a few years ago and 2 houses ago. As you probably read in the thread we just moved to a new city. He picked the house because it was HIS credit. In bankruptcy.



Sorry, but this just makes no sense. It's your FAMILY'S finances, not his and yours. When you can't afford something, you have to put your foot down about it. Credit's not the issue, it's cash flow, and you should have a say, particularly since you're the one bringing in most of the cash flow. Do you guys budget? Do you think about what percentage of your income you should be spending on rent? This is something you have to strengthen in your life whether or not you stay with him. Supposedly it's all his choices, but nobody put a gun to your head and made you sign the lease.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Nope. It's exactly why I said I went back to therapy. And why I said in this thread... I have since worked on my enabling. 



John Lee said:


> Sorry, but this just makes no sense. It's your FAMILY'S finances, not his and yours. When you can't afford something, you have to put your foot down about it. Credit's not the issue, it's cash flow, and you should have a say, particularly since you're the one bringing in most of the cash flow. Do you guys budget? Do you think about what percentage of your income you should be spending on rent? This is something you have to strengthen in your life whether or not you stay with him. Supposedly it's all his choices, but nobody put a gun to your head and made you sign the lease.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

mega1 said:


> Nope. It's exactly why I said I went back to therapy. And why I said in this thread... I have since worked on my enabling.
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry to belabor this, but it's not just about "enabling" HIM it's about YOU making responsible choices. You agreed to these things, you signed these leases. You're not some passive 1950s housewife who doesn't understand money and lets her husband do everything, quite the opposite. If you can start a business, you should be able to run your finances. This is all aside from whether you should leave, but if you do leave, that doesn't mean all your problems will go away, and you still need to work on taking full responsibility for decisions that affect your finances. 

Sorry if I'm being overly harsh -- I really am sympathetic to you about how difficult your husband sounds, and it must be very hard to carry all the burden in the relationship like that. If you had a real partner, you'd have another person putting a "check" on your financial decisions together, instead of a person you have to basically "manage."


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Thank you. You are correct.... However, this last lease truly was in his name only. I am in bankruptcy.... So he got this one. But all the other things are indeed my "fault" too...





John Lee said:


> Sorry to belabor this, but it's not just about "enabling" HIM it's about YOU making responsible choices. You agreed to these things, you signed these leases. You're not some passive 1950s housewife who doesn't understand money and lets her husband do everything, quite the opposite. If you can start a business, you should be able to run your finances. This is all aside from whether you should leave, but if you do leave, that doesn't mean all your problems will go away, and you still need to work on taking full responsibility for decisions that affect your finances.
> 
> Sorry if I'm being overly harsh -- I really am sympathetic to you about how difficult your husband sounds, and it must be very hard to carry all the burden in the relationship like that. If you had a real partner, you'd have another person putting a "check" on your financial decisions together, instead of a person you have to basically "manage."


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

mega1 said:


> Thank you. You are correct.... However, this last lease truly was in his name only. I am in bankruptcy.... So he got this one. But all the other things are indeed my "fault" too...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Right, and that's good, but what I am saying is that you still have to pay the rent, even if you didn't actually sign the lease. You make a certain amount of money, and it sounds like maybe you spend too much of that on rent. So then you get all stressed out and you say "I need more business so I can make more money, and my husband won't even help me!" But you have a say in how much you spend on rent. It's your decision too, even if it's "his credit" and "his name on the lease". If you spent less, you wouldn't feel so desperate for the help he can't give you. At some point you must have agreed to this house, and whatever the monthly rent was, unless he went behind your back, which I doubt. But it sounds from what you're telling me like the rent might be too high. So in the future, whether with him or not, you have to look at how these decisions are going to affect you and not pass off the responsibility. That's all, not trying to guilt trip you.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

mega1 said:


> You are right, I believe. I am working on getting everything squared away. I'm trying to take a tally of where things REALLY are...I also made an appt with a therapist for this week. This will no doubt help...
> 
> 
> I will say he just told me that his current projects for this month have already been invoiced. He is definitely coasting on that money....and not proactively looking for anything else...really.
> ...


That's an odd thing for him to do. I wonder if he is sabotaging things. He resents that you do better than he, doesn't he?


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

I must admit I don't think he did this on purpose. He tends to do ignorat things... And he HATES when I (or anyone else) correct him. So my guess is his used the bank as a scapegoat to avoid looking like an idiot. 


I don't think he would have WANTED to help me LOSE all that money. 



EleGirl said:


> That's an odd thing for him to do. I wonder if he is sabotaging things. He resents that you do better than he, doesn't he?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Mega1, I am your husband. I am dysfunctional. I am mad at the world and have given up really trying. My wife is super competent. I have lost her respect completely. I have made so many dumb mistakes. Now I am just cruising, waiting for I don't know what.

I do all the housework to make things easier for her. I ought be doing well at work. I miss having a boss and colleagues, but I don't let that come into my mind.

... hey today I finished a project and my wife made love to me for the first time in ages. I feel great. I am superman.... What? This morning she has a new difficult project all lined up. And the deadline is ridiculous. She hugged me and kissed me, said could do it.

I got started after lunch but didn't do so much. Maybe I should make a good dinner to cheer her up? Yes, what would son and her both like?

Shoot, she just called and said they are going to pay more but the deadline is being pushed forward. Argh, the pressure is horrible. She said she had a great time last night.

Back to work....

Mega, you could create a false deadline and a false low bid to do this experiment. It is manipulative and might well fail, but you need carrot and stick. Until he gets on top of things, you have be the organizer. Without some positive charge his negative spiral will continue. 

Get a Standard divorce application form blank. If the positive charge doesn't work, tape the cover to the fridge door. 

Don't fight or argue about it. Just say I love you but he has to get a job. And in the mean time he has to make money. Don't search for leads for him. Replace him with a freelancer. Tell him that you have done it because he is unreliable. 

Have sex and tell him you are doing it to have something to remember him by. 

If this doesn't work you have to D.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Yeah his negative spiral has begun... Probably because I haven't jumped at the idea of going away to a resort this weekend. I spilled wine last night on the carpet last night while he was asleep. He is bent out of shape that it didn't come fully clean. And my son got up coughing and I got up at 3 am and got him medicine... And tried to lay with him to go back to sleep. DH wants to know why I didn't immediately come back to bed? 

The coldness has begun....



LongWalk said:


> Mega1, I am your husband. I am dysfunctional. I am mad at the world and have given up really trying. My wife is super competent. I have lost her respect completely. I have made so many dumb mistakes. Now I am just cruising, waiting for I don't know what.
> 
> I do all the housework to make things easier for her. I ought be doing well at work. I miss having a boss and colleagues, but I don't let that come into my mind.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

One thing in defense of your husband -- no matter how crappy he seems, it's not fair to expect him to be someone he's not. I believe people should work on themselves in marriage, but we can't expect our partners to fundamentally change who they are.

You seem to keep setting yourself up for disappointment. If you want someone different, leave him. He's made it pretty clear that he can't and/or doesn't want to competently help your business, so stop expecting him to.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Yes, but it was HIS idea to quit his job and work "our" business. Not mine...




John Lee said:


> One thing in defense of your husband -- no matter how crappy he seems, it's not fair to expect him to be someone he's not. I believe people should work on themselves in marriage, but we can't expect our partners to fundamentally change who they are.
> 
> You seem to keep setting yourself up for disappointment. If you want someone different, leave him. He's made it pretty clear that he can't and/or doesn't want to competently help your business, so stop expecting him to.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

mega1 said:


> Yes, but it was HIS idea to quit his job and work "our" business. Not mine...
> 
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I can understand how that must be frustrating. But now you know that what he really wanted was to have less responsibility. It doesn't seem like he wants to be the man that you want him to be. He doesn't want to step up. You can give him an ultimatum -- shape up or I ship out -- maybe you'll be pleasantly surprised, but i doubt it. Or you can leave. Or you can keep tolerating the situation you have and find ways to make it more tolerable. But to continue to harp forever on what he did and what he messed up is eventually going to get you nowhere. You have a right to be angry about these things. But you have power here -- you have the power to leave, to give him an ultimatum, or to change/lower your expectations from him. Those are your options, and you have to take responsibility for your situation, just like you have to make sure you can afford to rent the house you jointly decide to rent.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

mega1 said:


> Yes, but it was HIS idea to quit his job and work "our" business. Not mine...


I thought he gave up his job making 70K because *you* had an offer in another state which was an advancement in career and salary for you?

Some women might be thrilled to have an H who made such a HUGE sacrifice for her...

Mega,
To me, you sound like you have a chip on your shoulder toward your H and no matter WHAT he does you see him as a loser. I don't think he is a loser. He's human and has his flaws as will anyone out there. To me, your expectations are the problem, not your husband (again, not that there isn't plenty of room for him to grow but you seem to spin everything he does into such horrible incompetence and failure...).


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

mega1 said:


> And "I" did not want to relocate. He did. He wanted me to take that job so he could quit HIS job and work on his business. Which obviously is more like ME trying to find business for him.


Just reviewing and found this ^^

The lesson I would take away from the experience is not to submit to something I don't want to do. IOW if you did not want to relocate, don't. Too late to undo it now but keep it in mind in the future.

If you were still back in the old place, your H would still be making 70K (I'm assuming). The business idea just did not work out the way he imagined.

If I was you I would completely stop trying to find business for him. Doing so is enabling behavior and sets up an unhealthy "mommy" dynamic in your marriage IMO. Eventually he'll figure out how to be a big boy and do it himself or that he isn't cut out for it and get back to the drawing board.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Blonde said:


> Just reviewing and found this ^^
> 
> The lesson I would take away from the experience is not to submit to something I don't want to do. IOW if you did not want to relocate, don't. Too late to undo it now but keep it in mind in the future.
> 
> If you were still back in the old place, your H would still be making 70K (I'm assuming). The business idea just did not work out the way he imagined.


I'm a little unclear on this too -- it seems like OP is saying conflicting things about it. I'm sensing a pattern of failing to acknowledge your role in decisions. Did the husband proactively go out, find a job for the wife in another location and say "Hey honey, why don't you take this job so I can quit my job and work for your business?" I doubt it. 

I'm not buying this "well it was all HIS idea" talk, and even if it WAS all his idea, it's still your decision too. It sounds like you're deflecting responsibility, and to make things worse, you're passing off responsibility on someone who has proven himself irresponsible. That's irresponsible of you. You want a take charge kind of man maybe, but for now, that's not who you married, so you have to take responsibility and stop setting yourself up to be let down. If he wants the two of you to do something financially irresponsible, you have to say no. You can't agree to rent the house and then later complain about how it's too expensive and it was "his pick."


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Good advice. And I will be honest... After all the stuff I've been through with him, I don't always see him as an equal. And it doesn't help that we don't have sex ...and when we do (one ever 30 to 60 days) it's because I do something to lift my own guilt of not being a good wife. 

I don't enjoy it. He never really tried (until therapy) to make it enjoyable for me. All he wanted was a handjob. Never even really wanted to have "actual intercourse". He would pull out for a HJ. 

So here is my problem. All of this is still in my brain. I can't seem to shake the feeling that there's something odd about our relationship. I've tried and succeeded ...from the outside. But internally... I prob do have that chip on my shoulder. Can that ever go away? 



Blonde said:


> Just reviewing and found this ^^
> 
> The lesson I would take away from the experience is not to submit to something I don't want to do. IOW if you did not want to relocate, don't. Too late to undo it now but keep it in mind in the future.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Mega, would you mind clarifying some things?

You have a job (not your business). How many hours a week do you work at this job?

You and your husband have a business.

You go most or all of the marketing, contracting, etc. (can you clarify).

You both do the actual work. 

What % of the work do each of you do and does he do?

How many hours a week do each of you work at this business?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

mega1 said:


> Good advice. And I will be honest... After all the stuff I've been through with him, I don't always see him as an equal. And it doesn't help that we don't have sex ...and when we do (one ever 30 to 60 days) it's because I do something to lift my own guilt of not being a good wife.
> 
> I don't enjoy it. He never really tried (until therapy) to make it enjoyable for me. All he wanted was a handjob. Never even really wanted to have "actual intercourse". He would pull out for a HJ.
> 
> So here is my problem. All of this is still in my brain. I can't seem to shake the feeling that there's something odd about our relationship. I've tried and succeeded ...from the outside. But internally... I prob do have that chip on my shoulder. Can that ever go away?


Is this what your sex is still like with him?


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

mega1 said:


> But internally... I prob do have that chip on my shoulder. Can that ever go away?


Yes. In cognitive therapy they refer to the process as reframing. Cognitive reframing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For one thing, don't take your husband's deficiencies personally. The sex thing is not a rejection of you. It's some issue your H needs to work through. The fact that he goes to therapy and has made changes in response to the therapy is very positive and hopeful IMO. You are blessed with an H who is open to that- some of us are married to H's who refuse to engage with therapy.

And it sounds to me like he has demonstrated some deficiencies with handling your finances (the story about the bankruptcy check, plus the wire transfer story). You understand this as ignorance rather than an attempt to sabotage or punish you (which I might be tempted to think if you hadn't dismissed that option). So, *stop setting yourself up to be hurt by this handicap of his*. From now on, you handle financial transactions yourself. It is reframed in your mind as "my husband has a handicap in this area so I will need to handle banking transactions".

You can reframe the move. Is it possible that in his mind he was trying to put you first? He did not want his 70K job to be an obstacle to your career advancement so he came up with the idea of "I can do the business" so that he would not hold you back? In that case, it was sweet, if misdirected. I also thought the gift of the frame with a $1 bill in it can definitely be reframed by you as a sweet gesture on his part- maybe all the more sweet for its quirky awkwardness?


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

mega1 said:


> I don't enjoy it. He never really tried (until therapy) to make it enjoyable for me.


If I was you, I would provide massive amounts of positive reinforcement and practice of your H's newfound willingness to make it enjoyable for you. Out with the old way and in with the new.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Sure. My day job requires about 50 hours a week. 

The business is consulting and video editing. I do the consulting (now that I've learned he can't do that) and he does video editing. 

I spend at least 15 hours a week (most mornings and weekends) working on educating myself on how to generate leads and making strategy session calls. Often, I am getting consulting jobs for myself. If they have video needs... My husband does that. But these projects are very hit or miss. He has 2 this month and they are requiring about 10 hours of his time .. 

He does not cold call. In fact he got upset this am that my hairdresser still hasn't helped him get a meeting at a local magazine. He said "do much for your friend!". 

As for sex.. It is often still like that. We went to therapy. I demanded more. He actually got a condom and had sex a few times with me. But he stopped initiating after he stopped going to therapy. (his choice). Now... I don't know. To be honest, I feel like he's just doing me a favor... If he has sex. So I don't enjoy that at all. 

I mean .. I could sit down and ask him why he hasn't initiated. His answer (I bet) would be that I seem so stressed with work and the move. 






EleGirl said:


> Mega, would you mind clarifying some things?
> 
> You have a job (not your business). How many hours a week do you work at this job?
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

That is just not something I feel I want to do. 
I am sorry, but praising him for actually trying to have intercourse? Marriage shouldn't be that way IMO. 




Blonde said:


> If I was you, I would provide massive amounts of positive reinforcement and practice of your H's newfound willingness to make it enjoyable for you. Out with the old way and in with the new.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Not "praise" just lots of practice in the new way.

My H is different than yours but has some of the Asperger traits. Talking to him gets me nowhere. Negative reinforcement for the bad and positive reinforcement for the good. So if I was dealing with your sex issue he would NEVER be rewarded for pulling out and depriving me. The manure is going to hit the fan so hard he won't want to repeat it! But he would never regret satisfying me. Make sense?


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

But that's the thing... I don't WANT to practice...

After yet another "accidental" insult about my appearance.., I am so put off... 



Blonde said:


> Not "praise" just lots of practice in the new way.
> 
> My H is different than yours but has some of the Asperger traits. Talking to him gets me nowhere. Negative reinforcement for the bad and positive reinforcement for the good. So if I was dealing with your sex issue he would NEVER be rewarded for pulling out and depriving me. The manure is going to hit the fan so hard he won't want to repeat it! But he would never regret satisfying me. Make sense?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

mega1 said:


> But that's the thing... I don't WANT to practice...
> 
> After yet another "accidental" insult about my appearance.., I am so put off...


You are probably right to put "accidental" in quotes. Do you see how your H used negative reinforcement to extinguish your desire?

Strange man you have there... I'm afraid I can't identify with you on this part of it as mine is a horn dog. It works in my favor as he has learned what he can do to turn me on as well as what turns me off. Insults and Bull in china shop crapola turns me off.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

To me long term sexless is no marriage. The vows include sex. "To have and to hold" is a euphemism for sex. Personally, I like Lamm's perspective: Sex is a wife's right and a husband's duty.

So if that has been a long term problem which it sounds like it has, I would seriously consider divorce.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Well I honestly believe that he just put his foot in his mouth...I don't think he meant to insult me. But after him suggesting I get bigger boobs.. Lips ... Him commenting on my weight.. Just stings. I'm a size 4. He says meant it as a compliment... But I just can't take any more of these "weird" compliments. 

But seriously I do not believe he was coming from a mean place. But it still makes me insecure. 

But his hopping around pretending to be Marilyn Monroe and pulling his boxers up do nipples... Is just icky weird. I know he's trying to be seductive/fun... But it just doesn't work for me. It's not his fault. I suppose it's mine... Because I don't like it. However I've nicely told him that I don't enjoy his prancing. He will stop for about a month and then "forget". 




Blonde said:


> You are probably right to put "accidental" in quotes. Do you see how your H used negative reinforcement to extinguish your desire?
> 
> Strange man you have there... I'm afraid I can't identify with you on this part of it as mine is a horn dog. It works in my favor as he has learned what he can do to turn me on as well as what turns me off. Insults and Bull in china shop crapola turns me off.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

mega1 said:


> Sure. My day job requires about 50 hours a week.
> 
> The business is consulting and video editing. I do the consulting (now that I've learned he can't do that) and he does video editing.
> 
> ...


There are so many issues in your marriage that I’m trying to go through them 1 or 2 at a time.

So you are working 65+ hours a week for a business that he wanted. But now

So let’s see… He wanted to have a business instead of work a job for someone else. 

Now you are working 65+ hours a week between your job and the business.

Your husband has worked about 10 hours in the last month on the business.

I can see why you are so frustrated and why you feel that he is not pulling his weight, or being responsible.

One of the problems that happen with people is that they have a great skill and so they start a business around that skill. But business takes a lot more than technical expertise. It takes the ability to bring in business.

Has your husband’s self-confidence gone down a lot since he quit his job? It would imagine it has. If I were you I’d tell him that he has to find a job. If you two split up, he could not keep this business going and he needs a way to support himself and help support his son.

Then you can decide whether or not you want to keep doing the business plus your job. But you have to make this decision without your husband in mind. 

I know that you are tired of carrying almost 100% of the responsibility for everything in your marriage, it is a reality that you will need to have 100% of the responsibility whether you stay married or not. You are married to a passive aggressive man who has managed to make himself look helpless and who has forced you into the position of being the only one responsible.

His ‘mistakes’ remind me of something that I did years ago. When I got my first job out of college as an engineer, I found that at meeting with other engineers (all males) I was always asked to make the coffee. I was usually the only female engineer at the meeting. Btu out of 20 people I was always the one asked to make the coffee. Well, I was smart enough to know that if I protested on the grounds of gender bias that I would be looked down on. So I made the coffee. But after it became clear that this was going to happen with every meeting I pulled a passive aggressive act. I made the coffee alright. I put 2-3 times as much grounds in it as was required. When the guys spit out the coffee I just looked surprised and batted by eyelashes.. “Oh sorry, isn’t it any good? I don’t drink coffee so I guess I messed up. My husband makes his own at home.” Well after I did that a couple of times they never asked me to make coffee again. 

See, when a person uses incompetence as a passive aggressive technique to avoid something, it usually means that the competent person takes over the task forever. I truly believe that this is what you husband has been doing. He feels incompetent in running a business and does not want to put out the effort to learn how or get a new job. So he’s found a way to get you to do everything. Then he acts nice so that how can you possibly say anything negative about him?

You have some options here: 

1)	Continue as you are and live in utter frustration with a man who becomes more and more incompetent every year while he pushes all the responsibility and work onto you. He gets to goof off and live the life of retired leisure while you shoulder all responsibility and work yourself into exhaustion.


2)	Tell him that he has to find a job in 1 month (or some time frame) or you divorce him. If he gets a job in the timeframe and you stay married to him, he will most likely push all other responsibility onto you, but at least he will be doing something productive with his time. And he can still do 10 hours a month of video editing for the business should you choose to continue it. It will stop a lot of his passive aggressive behaviors, but not all of them.


3)	Divorce him. Then this forces him to stop the passive aggressive pushing everything on you. If you leave him, he has to work or he will starve and live on the street. Necessity is a great motivator for people like him. It’s probably the only motivator. Right now why does he need to do anything? He has you after all.


If you divorce him, at least you can be 100% for only your son and yourself. You are not then basically being your husband’s mommy.

In order to change this situation you have to take a very strong action to turn everything upside down.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

mega1 said:


> Well I honestly believe that he just put his foot in his mouth...I don't think he meant to insult me. But after him suggesting I get bigger boobs.. Lips ... Him commenting on my weight.. Just stings. I'm a size 4. He says meant it as a compliment... But I just can't take any more of these "weird" compliments.
> 
> But seriously I do not believe he was coming from a mean place. But it still makes me insecure.
> 
> But his hopping around pretending to be Marilyn Monroe and pulling his boxers up do nipples... Is just icky weird. I know he's trying to be seductive/fun... But it just doesn't work for me. It's not his fault. I suppose it's mine... Because I don't like it. However I've nicely told him that I don't enjoy his prancing. He will stop for about a month and then "forget".


Have you read the book "Love Busters"? His act does sound creepy and it's a love buster for you. So he needs to stop it.

Does he do things like this.. icky weird and off-hand insulting comments to anyone other than you?


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

For the most part, he doesn't do this weird/icky behavior around anyone else. But, he definitely "accidentally" insults people ... Not just me. It's how we lost the contract for consulting. He wasn't listening to what the woman was saying specifically and went off on a boastful tangent, and totally insulted her. She went off on him and he clarified that his thought was not pertaining to her comment... But is was BAD. 



EleGirl said:


> Have you read the book "Love Busters"? His act does sound creepy and it's a love buster for you. So he needs to stop it.
> 
> Does he do things like this.. icky weird and off-hand insulting comments to anyone other than you?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

mega1 said:


> For the most part, he doesn't do this weird/icky behavior around anyone else. But, he definitely "accidentally" insults people ... Not just me. It's how we lost the contract for consulting. He wasn't listening to what the woman was saying specifically and went off on a boastful tangent, and totally insulted her. She went off on him and he clarified that his thought was not pertaining to her comment... But is was BAD.


If he just has the problem of a mouth that is disconnected from his brain, then, if things were good between the two of you I think you could handle it. Why take his remarks seriously? Instead look at them as his mouth just running off. You could just say something back at him like .. "there you go again saying things that make no sense." Don't personalize them. 

You have bigger issues than the nonsense that comes out of his mouth.

ETA: However, keep in mind that the source of his going into that "accidental" insult of the client are his insecurities. 

I know someone who does this type of thing all the time and has lost a lot of job and business opportunities because of it. He has to pontificate about his great abilities and how no one else is as great as he is. Then he wonders why he cannot get work.

His comments to this client and to you are about his own insecurities, not about you or that client.

When people do this kind of thing I get an image of them holding up a looking glass... as though they are saying it to themself.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Elegirl has offered a lot of fair advice here.

I can tell you that a guy like your husband is not wired quite right, but since he has talent and abilities if you want to stay with him you basically have to steer him to recover his self confidence and to find new energy.

Not having a good daily routine really hurts him. That is why he should get a job.

If your feelings for him are destroyed, just divorce. If you feel that there is something fundamentally good in him that you can nurture, you must out smart him by turning him off this self destructive path.

Bankruptcy hasn't really bothered him. If you file for divorce, he may or may not wake up....

What was he like at his best? Can either or you imagine him returning to that level of performance?


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Yes, yes yes. 

I spent a great deal of time thinking today about my responsibly in this. It's huge. I have allowed all of this by not saying no... I basically said YES. 

The sex stuff.. That's not my fault because I have been vocal. These days I just don't say anything because I want no part of him. But before.. I did say a lot. 

The money stuff is my fault. Take the resort trip this weekend ... He wanted to go. Last night I just said the weather will be bad. Didn't even get into a fight and say "hell no, I'm broke!" 
Today it came up again. He said "it's not too late to go...". I just ignored. 

The OLD me, would have said .., "okay... We could...". 

I didn't enable. He KNOWS we can't afford it. But he doesn't care... 

A few years ago he went behind my back and asked his elderly father (early dementia) for 15k because he heard his brother got money. I had initially said you cannot ask for that $$$$. They were both broke and they were dipping into their retirement! 

He did it anyway and when I got angry.. He just said it wasn't my business because it was his parents... 




EleGirl said:


> There are so many issues in your marriage that I’m trying to go through them 1 or 2 at a time.
> 
> So you are working 65+ hours a week for a business that he wanted. But now
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Actually he seems to love his current lifestyle. It has not impacted his self confidence at all. 

You raise a good question about what he was like at his peak.., he is really still there. He's very fulfilled from the video work he's currently doing ...

He has the perfect blend. He gets to take his time on his projects... Less stress on deadlines. He seems to be very fulfilled. 
He is making decent money this month, but again... It's because I'm making him an extension of my business. That is something I will have to curtail that... To survive mentally! 




LongWalk said:


> Elegirl has offered a lot of fair advice here.
> 
> I can tell you that a guy like your husband is not wired quite right, but since he has talent and abilities if you want to stay with him you basically have to steer him to recover his self confidence and to find new energy.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

mega1 said:


> Actually he seems to love his current lifestyle. It has not impacted his self confidence at all.
> 
> You raise a good question about what he was like at his peak.., he is really still there. He's very fulfilled from the video work he's currently doing ...
> 
> ...


Why wouldn’t he be fulfilled in his current life? He gets just enough work to keep a bit busy. He has a comfortable life. He has you to do everything else. And he has a lot of time to do things he likes. And your husband does not care of the strain his nice, easy life style puts on you.

I want that life, if only I could find someone like you (a man though) to do this for me. 

Any guy out there want to volunteer?


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Actually that is exactly how I was feeling! I want a partner to treat me the way I treat my DH. Sex though... I fail at since I don't push the issue... Because jm not attracted to him anymore 

What's crazy is he is a good looking guy...





EleGirl said:


> Why wouldn’t he be fulfilled in his current life? He gets just enough work to keep a bit busy. He has a comfortable life. He has you to do everything else. And he has a lot of time to do things he likes. And your husband does not care of the strain his nice, easy life style puts on you.
> 
> I want that life, if only I could find someone like you (a man though) to do this for me.
> 
> Any guy out there want volunteer?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

mega1 said:


> Actually that is exactly how I was feeling! I want a partner to treat me the way I treat my DH. Sex though... I fail at since I don't push the issue... Because jm not attracted to him anymore
> 
> What's crazy is he is a good looking guy...


I can understand why you are not attracted to him anymore. I would lose interest in a man very quickly if all he wanted her hand jobs and he could not, would not, satisfy me sexually. Sex is a two way street... and a lot more than hj's. I'm pretty sure that I would feel completely rejected by him for this.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

I agree. However I will admit that if I threw myself at him tonight ... He may be fine and completely back to "normal". He knows I'm in therapy mode so he might be just fine. But I no longer want to throw myself at him. That's my fault. But it's the truth. 


EleGirl said:


> I can understand why you are not attracted to him anymore. I would lose interest in a man very quickly if all he wanted her hand jobs and he could not, would not, satisfy me sexually. Sex is a two way street... and a lot more than hj's. I'm pretty sure that I would feel completely rejected by him for this.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

mega1 said:


> I agree. However I will admit that if I threw myself at him tonight ... He may be fine and completely back to "normal". He knows I'm in therapy mode so he might be just fine. But I no longer want to throw myself at him. That's my fault. But it's the truth.


What do you mean "normal". What is 'normal" for him?

If you threw yourself at him, what kind of sex could you expect? You having to give him a HJ and nothing else?


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

If I threw myself at him tonight, my guess would be that I'd get the typical awkward kissing and very strained acting ...he tried to act like a porn star. Then he would probably feel obligated to actually have intercourse and then he would pull put after about 20 seconds... Maybe 45 and tell me he's ready and want me to give him a HJ. 

That would be my prediction. 



EleGirl said:


> What do you mean "normal". What is 'normal" for him?
> 
> If you threw yourself at him, what kind of sex could you expect? You having to give him a HJ and nothing else?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Why are you staying with this guy? It sounds like a crappy marriage to me.

If you stay, why not detach?

Are you staying because you think he may change? If not, why be miserable? Life is to be enjoyed. Focusing on a spouse who gives you no joy or satisfaction does what - makes you feel you are right and he is wrong?

Seriously.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

mega1 said:


> If I threw myself at him tonight, my guess would be that I'd get the typical awkward kissing and very strained acting ...he tried to act like a porn star. Then he would probably feel obligated to actually have intercourse and then he would pull put after about 20 seconds... Maybe 45 and tell me he's ready and want me to give him a HJ.
> 
> That would be my prediction.


I would find that so humiliating. No way could I stay with a man who treated sex with me this way. Surely you realize that there is something very very wrong.

This alone is reason to leave him. Sex is a huge part of marriage... good sex, real sex. 

Pile on everything else and I have to ask why you are still with him.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Your marriage is sick as you well know. Your husband is not right in the head. Perhaps in your mind you fear that the moment you throw him out he'll either disintegrate or pull himself together. If the former, you'll feel guilty for destroying him, although you know its his fault. If the latter, you feel sorry for the next woman who scoops him up, thinking she's found a handsome geek who needs home.

It's not healthy being his boss. He needs to get a full time job, doing what he is good at. Do such employment opportunities exist?

You need to tape the D application papers to the fridge and spell it out for him. He has to change or the game is over. Subtle messages won't work.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Well, I know he thinks (in some ways) that I'm a dumb arse. And you know, I'm definitely not perfect. He doesn't like the way I iron... Or open my cereal box. Or maybe I don't clean up a mess to his standards. He truly likes to clean windows, scrub floors... Etc. but he has a way of making me feel very stupid at times. He IS book smart. And is excellent at his craft. 
I don't believe threatening him helps .. I've tried before. And he gets into a panic mode. He becomes defensive and gets frustrated easily. He does not work/live well under pressure. 
I know that the opposite doesn't help either...but it is much easier to live with him... When he doesn't have a gun to his head. 


He tried to "snuggle" with me this am... And I think he was waiting for me to initiate. I didn't. And he got up a few minutes later. We are just in such an awkward place. 



LongWalk said:


> Your marriage is sick as you well know. Your husband is not right in the head. Perhaps in your mind you fear that the moment you throw him out he'll either disintegrate or pull himself together. If the former, you'll feel guilty for destroying him, although you know its his fault. If the latter, you feel sorry for the next woman who scoops him up, thinking she's found a handsome geek who needs home.
> 
> It's not healthy being his boss. He needs to get a full time job, doing what he is good at. Do such employment opportunities exist?
> 
> You need to tape the D application papers to the fridge and spell it out for him. He has to change or the game is over. Subtle messages won't work.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

mega1 said:


> Well, I know he thinks (in some ways) that I'm a dumb arse. And you know, I'm definitely not perfect. He doesn't like the way I iron... Or open my cereal box. Or maybe I don't clean up a mess to his standards. He truly likes to clean windows, scrub floors... Etc. but he has a way of making me feel very stupid at times.


He nit picks at you then? You have complete control over the way you react to this. So he likes to open cereal differently then you do. So what. Shrug it off. You can choose to not let it bother you.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Yes. I've learned not to react. But now, considering divorce, I realize my self confidence sucks. I think of all the "problems" and wonder if I'm worthy of anyone else. I know that I am... Objectively. But it has gotten to me. 

Let me ask this. When you come home... Does your spouse look up and say hello? 



EleGirl said:


> He nit picks at you then? You have complete control over the way you react to this. So he likes to open cereal differently then you do. So what. Shrug it off. You can choose to not let it bother you.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

mega1 said:


> Yes. I've learned not to react. But now, considering divorce, I realize my self confidence sucks. I think of all the "problems" and wonder if I'm worthy of anyone else. I know that I am... Objectively. But it has gotten to me.


This is a very normal way to feel in a marriage that has deteriorated the way yours has.

This is why you need to start to focus on yourself. Stop putting all your energy towards thinking about him. Put it on yourself, on making yourself feel better and stronger. 



mega1 said:


> Let me ask this. When you come home... Does your spouse look up and say hello?


I am no longer married. 

To answer your question, no he did not say hello to me when I came home from work. He did not work for years, sat in his home office playing video games all day and only came out to get food and to go to bed.

This is one of the many reasons that I divorced him.

During his years of unemployment, we went through some things similar to what you are two are going through with the business. We started a business when he seems to be having trouble finding a job. I'm a software engineer with a lot of business experience too. He's a web designer so we should be done quite well. But it turned out to be me doing all the business, selling, and most of the work. He did a bit of the work and sabotaged a lot of business. I spent a lot investing in this business and it all went down the tubes. My job was too demanding with long hours required, so unlike you I could not carry the business by continuing to do it all for the business.

I get a lot of what you are going through.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

I'm sorry for what you went through. It sounds like it was miserable ((. Do you ever wonder of you made the right call? Were you 100 percent sure on divorce when you did it? 

I can honestly say he's just putting his head in the sand. I don't think he's thinking any of this through... I don't believe that he realizes how difficult this will make my life. He just wanted the chapter 7 as a clean slate. And it's not going to happen. 


So this popped in my head. What of my side biz takes off and I start generating enough money to make life easy.... And he just does his freelance projects and stays home. 

Then what? I can tell you sex wont be there. And I will still be unable to respect him. But then what? I will feel awful divorcing then.. Because life could be "fine" if I keep working 80 hours a week. And truthfully that's possible... And I am capable of that stress load. I've done it forever. 



EleGirl said:


> This is a very normal way to feel in a marriage that has deteriorated the way yours has.
> 
> This is why you need to start to focus on yourself. Stop putting all your energy towards thinking about him. Put it on yourself, on making yourself feel better and stronger.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Okay, you lack self-confidence and feel you may never find a man who can fulfill your needs. So in the meantime, you are willing to stick it out with this guy even though communication and sex are bad.

It's your right to remain in a crummy marriage. But I wonder, with all the excuses you give, what you are really getting out of this relationship.

Because for all your complaining, you are finding reasons to stay. A lot of your rationale appears to be based on conjecture; or, what-if thinking.

Regardless, maybe you should carefully consider exactly what it is that allows you to remain in a relationship with a man for whom you have little, if any, respect. 

Just what do you think you are getting out of this? 

So what if you don't find another man when you leave? Is being without a man so bad? I ask that because it seems you would want a break from men after putting up with the one you have now.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

mega1 said:


> I'm sorry for what you went through. It sounds like it was miserable ((. Do you ever wonder of you made the right call? Were you 100 percent sure on divorce when you did it?


I put a lot into trying to save the marriage. So when I did file for divorce I was 100% sure it was the right thing to do. I still am 100% sure.



mega1 said:


> I can honestly say he's just putting his head in the sand. I don't think he's thinking any of this through... I don't believe that he realizes how difficult this will make my life. He just wanted the chapter 7 as a clean slate. And it's not going to happen.


Why isn’t the chapter 7 going to be a clean slate? Well for you. Not for him?





mega1 said:


> So this popped in my head. What of my side biz takes off and I start generating enough money to make life easy.... And he just does his freelance projects and stays home.


Are you happy with you working long hours while he works only a little bit and does very little around the house? 
My thing with my ex was that he could either work or be a SAHH who took care of everything at home… house, yard, shopping, cooking, etc. The best it ever got was him doing a bit of it. Like he’d cut grass once very few months. Do the dishes once a week and cook dinner 2-4 times a week. Most of every day was still spent playing computer games. (I hate computer games now.)



mega1 said:


> Then what? I can tell you sex wont be there. And I will still be unable to respect him. But then what? I will feel awful divorcing then.. Because life could be "fine" if I keep working 80 hours a week. And truthfully that's possible... And I am capable of that stress load. I've done it forever.


You are not capable of working 80 hour weeks and keeping the house and all things up. I did that for years. Now I’m burnt out. Making yourself sick is not worth it.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

People who have ability but lack motivation become depressed in no small part because their social skills are bad. They can cut the video, design a web page but they cannot listen to other people. Creativity comes out of such people like shotgun blasts. They don't answer emails. They cannot get receipts in order, etc.

I am one of these people. I see it now but so late in life. Is is possible to change once you have insight? I hope so.

Mavash is a genius for communicating with people like your husband. PM her.

You have to simultaneously encourage and shock your husband, but you have to do it in a loving way. He is on probation and will be fired but he can rectify the situation. You must spell out the goals. He should not be your subcontractor. He should work for somebody else, preferably not at home, where he can waste time.

His preference for hand jobs is a sign of low self esteem. If he earned more money he would engage you more as an equal.

Does he exercise?

PM Mavash. Three Strikes is also good. And Elegirl, too, of course.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Fear of failure holds me... I truly believe. I have had a partner in this disaster and if I screw it up in the future ... It's all me. I am being hard and honest with myself, but I think I take some pleasure in not feeling like things were ALL fault. 


I was talking to my girlfriend today, and she thinks having my son see these behaviors from his dad are damaging. 

I just wish I could truly see things as objectively as necessary... 

I'm sure... Down the road, I will look back and wonder wtf was I thinking and why did I stay so long. 

Part of it? My dad told me just before he died that he prayed that our son would have a father in his life ... He knew I wanted to divorce even then. My dad's father died when he was 3 so that was very important to him. And it still weighs heavily on me today. 

If I leave, it's possible that DH will be an angry ... Not so good ...father. I know financially he will suffer immensely. 
Right now, by staying, I feel I'm holding everything together. Covering the crap so to speak.. Hubby is happy stay at home dad...yet still works "some". Son loves his dad and spends time with him even when I'm working... And the only person suffering is me (all the work/stress). But at least our son is protected from it. 

Divorce could make his life much worse... And that would be even more painful for me to watch. 



Prodigal said:


> Okay, you lack self-confidence and feel you may never find a man who can fulfill your needs. So in the meantime, you are willing to stick it out with this guy even though communication and sex are bad.
> 
> It's your right to remain in a crummy marriage. But I wonder, with all the excuses you give, what you are really getting out of this relationship.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Open minded, do you mind I ask... What was the problem in your marriage?


How severe were the problems?





Openminded said:


> Fear of the unknown is a powerful motivator for keeping people in situations that aren't good for them. Ending a 45 year marriage was not something I did on a whim but I did it. And I'm happier for it.
> 
> By the way -- don't think your son will not notice the unhappiness and tension. Parents think they hide it well. They don't. Despite my best efforts, my son said he did not have a happy childhood. Guess why that was?
> 
> My only regret was not getting out decades ago.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

I'm so sorry (. I know that's a terrible thing to go through. 

I must admit that my husband has never officially cheated (I saw some flirtatious FB messages only) but I don't know how I would react. 

He seems faithful now but I think it's because he knows that he has his income etc at stake. But I don't know. 

I'm just sorry for you. I'm glad you are happy now. 





Openminded said:


> Thirty years ago my husband cheated. I stayed for my son and did a lot of rug sweeping. A few years ago his AP came back (or perhaps never completely left and was in and out of his life during those 30 years -- I don't know).
> 
> I decided to get out but couldn't do so immediately because I was helping with my grandchildren. But I began making plans. And as soon as I possibly could I filed. My divorce was final this summer. I'm finally happy.
> 
> The kicker was my son telling me that despite the fact I stayed for him he didn't have a happy childhood because he could sense the tension that I tried so hard to hide. So I never support staying for the children.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

mega1 said:


> Fear of failure holds me... I truly believe. I have had a partner in this disaster and if I screw it up in the future ... It's all me. I am being hard and honest with myself, but I think I take some pleasure in not feeling like things were ALL fault.


I see your point. I wonder if you see that you are coming from a pride position. By that, I mean you can feel better about yourself when you focus on his screw-ups. I don't know if you understand that. It took me YEARS in Al-Anon before I realized my b!tching about the alcoholic in my life gave me an ego boost. After all, he was the f^ck up trashing our marriage. 

I was the long-suffering spouse who was trying to cope and suck up in order to save the marriage. That meant I was the better person. He was zoned out with his addiction. I was holding together a situation that could fall apart at any minute if I left. 



mega1 said:


> I just wish I could truly see things as objectively as necessary...
> 
> I'm sure... Down the road, I will look back and wonder wtf was I thinking and why did I stay so long.


You could see things somewhat objectively. But that means you have to quit trying to figure him out. It also means going through the pain of relinquishing denial. I don't think you like this man, let alone love him. 

That doesn't make you a bad person. It means you are an unhappy person. And complaining about him can only get you so far. Why do you stay? Maybe because you want to make him man up and become the husband you want him to be.

Sorry ... that won't work. But it does continue to fuel your denial. 



mega1 said:


> Right now, by staying, I feel I'm holding everything together. Covering the crap so to speak.. ... Divorce could make his life much worse... And that would be even more painful for me to watch.


Has anyone suggested that you get a copy of Melodie Beattie's classic, Codependent No More? What you are doing is rabidly codependent. If divorce makes his life "much worse" that is his choice; not yours.

You have a life to lead, and it is yours, not his. It isn't your responsibility to be his mommy, caretaker, or financial savior. Divorce is painful for all parties concerned. But staying in an unfulfilling, crappy marriage is the ultimate painful experience. JMO. 

Something to consider ...


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

mega1 said:


> Fear of failure holds me... I truly believe. I have had a partner in this disaster and if I screw it up in the future ... It's all me. I am being hard and honest with myself, but I think I take some pleasure in not feeling like things were ALL fault.


I think this is a very good self-insight, because it's also the feeling I'm getting from your posts. As miserable as you are, some part of you wants someone else to blame because it's much scarier to be totally responsible for your own success or failure. That's very human. But it's an illusion, because you are still responsible for it even if you delegate a responsibility to him. You give him a task you should know you can't rely on him for, and then when he fails, you have him to blame. Your business would be more successful if not for your bungling husband. You lost all this business because of your bungling husband. If only you didn't have him holding you back. Yet it's more comfortable to keep making the mistake of letting him bungle things, because then you always have the excuse. 

It's like the way you described how you got into a house that was really too expensive -- "It was his pick because it was his credit." But that's not true, it was your choice as much as his -- you chose by allowing him to choose. Then you get to feel like it's not your fault you wound up in that house, when the fact is that you were a part of the decision. 

So I encourage you to recognize the illusion and fantasy that you're living in by believing he's the only thing holding you back. Recognizing that will help you whether you leave him or not.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Thanks mega1. I look at this as a valuable learning experience. Yes, I should have gotten out 30 years ago. But I did finally get out. And all the migraines and depression I dealt with during those years are gone. My life is finally my own. Better late than never.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Well, your story certainly gives me perspective ... But my big concern ASAP is money. If he leaves it will cost me more money.,, 

And on top of that...he makes meals... Offers to rub my feet, cleans the house (at times) ....he sure does act like the perfect husband... On the outside. I think that is what makes it so hard. I feel like I'm the problem...

However, he said that part of his "job" at home is to organize all the bills... Contact an accountant (about my business) .. And the reality is ... All of the receipts/bills are still piled up under the counter. 

He has not done any of that... 

And this am... He wanted to snuggle with me again in bed. He said "turn over, turn over, let "Lucy" come over".... There's the weirdness coming out again. "Lucy" was the dog I had to give up years ago because he wanted to commit suicide with her... After she got aggressive with our son. 






Openminded said:


> Thanks mega1. I look at this as a valuable learning experience. Yes, I should have gotten out 30 years ago. But I did finally get out. And all the migraines and depression I dealt with during those years are gone. My life is finally my own. Better late than never.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

mega1 said:


> I actually tried to get my husband to go to that after the EA. but he didn't want to. He said our therapy was only making things worse and he thought the same of that catholic retreat.
> 
> This was after he suggested I sue my mother for my dad's life insurance. Even though it was all that she had to live on... I didn't thank goodness.... But that's why I suggested that retreat.


You should re-visit the idea. If you are really as fed up and ready to dump him as you sound, you can tell him that this is a last ditch attempt and if it doesn't help then you are filing for divorce.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Mega1,

You need not despair. Change your tact. You must put different pressure on him to change. You need to stop enabling him but provide some sort of ladder that he must climb.

Do you have any mutual friend whom he respects and can mentor him. IC would be one way. However, if he is truly blind to the currency of social interaction, you cannot make him see. At best you can train him to follow rules that he cannot fully understand.

I have a buddy who is high functioning Aspergers or something. He is a team leader in famous IT company, so he can follow all the rules set up for managers. He knows that there are rules and he respects authority.

He cannot understand women and does not get into relationships. A few years ago he could not find any women who would have sex with him his self esteem was at bottom. He was a training buddy and he constantly called me and another workout chum for relationship advice. He used to tell us the things he said and did with women. It was pathetic.

Finally he got out of this and became the player. But he still doesn't understand women's needs in a relationship and I am judging him from the point of view of a pretty dysfunctional guy, so he is just relationship blind.

He may eventually end up getting married, but whoever makes this move will always have major frustrations. But a woman who understands what makes him tick may succeed. Certain horses and dogs will only function in the hands of the right master/mistress.

The key to rebuilding your husband will be to lift his self esteem, though he does not deserve it. At the same time you have to get him on track work-wise. Think of it as playing a fish. You cannot reel them straight in, you have let them run so that don't break the line.

You need to kick his butt without breaking his spirit. Tough to find a balance.

The much simpler approach is to dump him and move on.

re: irresponsible behavior



> However, he said that part of his "job" at home is to organize all the bills... Contact an accountant (about my business) .. And the reality is ... All of the receipts/bills are still piled up under the counter.


If you go back and read my earlier post, I told you that I guessed that he does stuff like this. How do I know. Because I am the same. I have desire to stop this pattern because I recognize the origin of my dysfunction. 

You need a list of prevent divorce activities that is in his face. He has to build a habit of attacking the list. You have to terrorize him but maintain a good sense of humor. He has to see that your marriage will end if he doesn't go to work.

He is good a Final Cut? How good? Google jobs and there are tons.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

I'm going to take a different tack here than the others and question whether you have "grass is greener syndrome"? I have posted clips from your posts below supporting this list:


you have a long list of resentments dating back many years (I didn't collect examples, but I saw the post about the dog/suicide incident and on this thread you have brought up several things he did ___ years ago)
you said your husband did therapy and since therapy has tried to make sex enjoyable for you
you only have sex every month or two and to you its a chore. (How on earth is he supposed to practice and implement what he learned in therapy? ) 
you have sexual urges- but not with him
you envy your gf finding a rich bf
you wish your H would pay for your dinners


The last three sound "grass is greener" to me. Money doesn't buy happiness mega. Rich successful men can be jerks. I've read that there are a higher percentage of NPD among the rich and powerful. I don't hear that your H is as bad as elegirl's. Your H

had a 70K job before moving for your job
remembered your b'day with a quirky gift
brings in some contract money here and there
does a good job on housework
is basically a good father

Correct me if any of the above is wrong. I realize he overlooked the epi pen and the dog/suicide thing troubles you. But that is not out of badness and evil IMO. That is out of his handicap which also leads him to frequently insert foot in mouth and insult people as well as be routinely irresponsible with financial paperwork.



mega1 said:


> I will admit *I absolutely do find Myself looking around,* unfortunately. I see dynamics in different relationships but overall, I don't see anyone feeling like I do... Complete cash cow. He's happy to make his normal amount if it's served up to him but he won't do anything to help me... That's uncomfortable.
> 
> I just wish I had a man who paid for my dinners and treated me well. Respected me.





mega1 said:


> Well to his credit.... He is a pilot. So travel is probably easier for him. And she is drop dead gorgeous. I hate her. Now it looks like she has a wealthy man too... Lucky gal!
> 
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_






mega1 said:


> Good advice. And I will be honest... After all the stuff I've been through with him, I don't always see him as an equal. And it doesn't help that we don't have sex ...and when we do (*one ever 30 to 60 days*) it's because I do something to lift my own guilt of not being a good wife.
> 
> I don't enjoy it. He never really tried *(until therapy)* to make it enjoyable for me. All he wanted was a handjob. Never even really wanted to have "actual intercourse". He would pull out for a HJ.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Yes he is very good at final cut. He's excellent at editing. He has gotten freelance work over the last couple of months and he's bringing in about 4k a month cash (no tax withheld) and I think that is terrific. But my beef with him is that he's not trying to a) secure the NEXT job and b) make plans to provide MORE. 

That is my problem with him... Fundamentally. He won't push to be the provider and I can't respect that. What If I lost my job tomorrow? I know I would work day and night to replace it. But I could never rely on him to provide for us... And THAT is why I think I can't respect him and I keep nit picking him... 






LongWalk said:


> Mega1,
> 
> You need not despair. Change your tact. You must put different pressure on him to change. You need to stop enabling him but provide some sort of ladder that he must climb.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

My brother-in-law's dog attacked my two year old and I was upset that the didn't put it down. That dog lived on for years...



mega1 said:


> And his idea of being funny or romantic is pretending to slap his ass and pose like Marilyn Monroe singing Santa baby. It's just not romantic. It's all awkward.


My daughter when she was 13 or so was scrolling through her daddy's phone and found multiple tidy ****** selfies he had taken of himself in the hotel mirror with a blue steel expression.

Every year the children do a gag Christmas gift based on my husband's awkward macho fails. So for Christmas, I got a big poster where they had photoshopped in a red santa hat and red furry santa "tighties". I jokingly told him I was going to put it on the ceiling so I can dream about him even when he's away on business.  

Remember I mentioned reframing? You could reframe your husband's romantic fails as amusing instead of repulsive.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Some of his behaviors are very odd. Has he ever seen a counsellor or therapist? This is one case where I think that might be more useful or more important than marriage counselling. The thing about the suicide with the dog is very disconcerting, and the sexual behaviors strike me as very strange. Do you think you could convince him to do it?


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

mega1 said:


> Yes he is very good at final cut. He's excellent at editing. He has gotten freelance work over the last couple of months and he's bringing in about 4k a month cash (no tax withheld) and I think that is terrific. But my beef with him is that he's not trying to a) secure the NEXT job and b) make plans to provide MORE.
> 
> That is my problem with him... Fundamentally. He won't push to be the provider and I can't respect that. What If I lost my job tomorrow? I know I would work day and night to replace it. But I could never rely on him to provide for us... And THAT is why I think I can't respect him and I keep nit picking him...


^^Your *expectations* are the problem. We spent 20+ years of our marriage earning under $48K, single income (I was SAHM), and 8 children (household of 10 on <$48K)

Lots of women would be really thrilled that he can basically be a SAHD and bring in $48K on the side.

Again, can you reframe this toward appreciation rather than contempt?


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

He went through therapy... Quite a few times. I'd put my boot on his neck do to speak and he'd go.. And then he'd stop. 

He stopped going again... About 5 months ago. 

So that stuff... Is just gonna always be there. 


John Lee said:


> Some of his behaviors are very odd. Has he ever seen a counsellor or therapist? This is one case where I think that might be more useful or more important than marriage counselling. The thing about the suicide with the dog is very disconcerting, and the sexual behaviors strike me as very strange. Do you think you could convince him to do it?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Have you read about Aspergers? Therapy doesn't work with them. They are incapable of introspection. The only thing that works is behavior modification.

You REWARD good behavior and progress and you make bad behavior such a negative experience for them that they don't repeat it (eg don't jerk him off if he pulls out. Get furious. A bucket of cold water comes to mind... )


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

I cross posted with you up above at 10:42 mega and I want to make sure you saw my post.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

mega1 said:


> He went through therapy... Quite a few times. I'd put my boot on his neck do to speak and he'd go.. And then he'd stop.
> 
> He stopped going again... About 5 months ago.
> 
> ...


Is there a diagnosed condition? Does he take medication?

I agree with the poster who said that a lot of women would be pretty happy to have a guy who can earn an extra $48K while also being a good stay-at-home dad and making dinners. Don't forget that if he worked more, you also might need more childcare and household help, and that costs a lot of money. Those are the "on paper" facts, and they don't sound so bad, but that doesn't mean things aren't bad. But he's fairly unreliable and lacks what I'd call "traditional manliness" and that seems to bother you. And it also sounds like he is a bit strange sexually, maybe has trouble with intimacy, but let's bracket those off for a second.

You have to think about the realistic choices one has in life. Some women prefer a warm guy who spends more time with the kids, while others prefer an alpha male breadwinner type who works long hours and makes a lot of money. And some guys are a mix of the two, but it's always going to be more one that the other. You're not going to find a rich, successful man with a high-powered career who also makes dinners and spends hours every day with the kids -- it's almost impossible, because the guy with the high-powered career is going to be at work all the time. Right now, you're unhappy, and the fantasy of the rich successful man appeals to you. But you have to recognize that that would come with its drawbacks too. 

Deflate the bubble in your mind and think realistically. It's possible that your husband's flaws are so great that you can't live with them. I wouldn't blame you if you came to that conclusion. And it's possible that, given your circumstances, you'd rather live with them. But you need to fully choose one of these options and own the decision. If you choose to leave, then leave and stop dawdling. 

If you choose to stay, then commit yourself to making it work. Stop setting yourself up to be disappointed by him. Set up a lifestyle for yourselves that you can afford without feeling like he HAS to work more or you HAVE to generate more business. Give yourself a little financial headroom so you're not stressed out all the time. Cut back somewhere - lease cheaper cars, take fewer vacations, get a Costco membership and do most of your shopping there, etc. It sounds to me like you at least have a six figure household income, and that's enough to live comfortably with one child almost anywhere in the country.

Look at it this way -- you may not want to be the leader of your family, but you have been thrust into the position where you are the leader. So lead. Take full responsibility. Stop finding ways to blame him for your problems. You can still hope he steps up more, but don't expect him to change too much. 

As for the strange behavior -- was he always like that? Did it change at some point?


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

No he has never been diagnosed with anything and does not... Will not take medicine for anything. 

I think during th porn addiction time... The therapist thought it was OCD... Not sure why. He wouldn't tell me more and said I needed to stop trying to control his therapy. So I wasn't allowed to ask. 

His strange behavior has pretty much always been there, I suppose. Probably worsening though over the years. 

For a while I was worried he was gay... He told me about 5 years ago that he was hanging out with a friend when he was 24 and that he got really drunk and the guy raped him. Although he participated in the sex and remembers it... He says he was too drunk to do anything about it. He went through therapy (on my urging) and then told his parents too. He says he's over it now. 



QUOTE=John Lee;4709626]Is there a diagnosed condition? Does he take medication?

I agree with the poster who said that a lot of women would be pretty happy to have a guy who can earn an extra $48K while also being a good stay-at-home dad and making dinners. Don't forget that if he worked more, you also might need more childcare and household help, and that costs a lot of money. Those are the "on paper" facts, and they don't sound so bad, but that doesn't mean things aren't bad. But he's fairly unreliable and lacks what I'd call "traditional manliness" and that seems to bother you. And it also sounds like he is a bit strange sexually, maybe has trouble with intimacy, but let's bracket those off for a second.

You have to think about the realistic choices one has in life. Some women prefer a warm guy who spends more time with the kids, while others prefer an alpha male breadwinner type who works long hours and makes a lot of money. And some guys are a mix of the two, but it's always going to be more one that the other. You're not going to find a rich, successful man with a high-powered career who also makes dinners and spends hours every day with the kids -- it's almost impossible, because the guy with the high-powered career is going to be at work all the time. Right now, you're unhappy, and the fantasy of the rich successful man appeals to you. But you have to recognize that that would come with its drawbacks too. 

Deflate the bubble in your mind and think realistically. It's possible that your husband's flaws are so great that you can't live with them. I wouldn't blame you if you came to that conclusion. And it's possible that, given your circumstances, you'd rather live with them. But you need to fully choose one of these options and own the decision. If you choose to leave, then leave and stop dawdling. 

If you choose to stay, then commit yourself to making it work. Stop setting yourself up to be disappointed by him. Set up a lifestyle for yourselves that you can afford without feeling like he HAS to work more or you HAVE to generate more business. Give yourself a little financial headroom so you're not stressed out all the time. Cut back somewhere - lease cheaper cars, take fewer vacations, get a Costco membership and do most of your shopping there, etc. It sounds to me like you at least have a six figure household income, and that's enough to live comfortably with one child almost anywhere in the country.

Look at it this way -- you may not want to be the leader of your family, but you have been thrust into the position where you are the leader. So lead. Take full responsibility. Stop finding ways to blame him for your problems. You can still hope he steps up more, but don't expect him to change too much. 

As for the strange behavior -- was he always like that? Did it change at some point?[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

mega1 said:


> For a while I was worried he was gay... He told me about 5 years ago that he was hanging out with a friend when he was 24 and that he got really drunk and the guy raped him. Although he participated in the sex and remembers it... He says he was too drunk to do anything about it. He went through therapy (on my urging) and then told his parents too. He says he's over it now.


Well that's pretty major. That incident has nothing to do with whether he's gay or not (I can't tell you if he is). It does sound like he has some issues around his masculinity, and having been raped could certainly contribute to that. I wonder if he has other things in his past as well.

I'm sorry to pry, but do you feel comfortable with the way he behaves toward your son? In other words, there's nothing strange about his relationship with your son, correct? And your son responds to him in a normal way as well, yes?


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Early on when my son was younger... I saw him being too aggressive with him. If he'd accidentally step on his foot or nudge him in the groin, he would forcefully push our son. One time he knocked the wind out of him by "accidentally" kicking him. That's why I sent him to therapy. 

Lately things seem okay... Except he tickles him a lot to the point my son is screaming to stop. And I've had to intervene. But I would imagine that's pretty normal, yes? 




John Lee said:


> Well that's pretty major. That incident has nothing to do with whether he's gay or not (I can't tell you if he is). It does sound like he has some issues around his
> 
> 
> masculinity, and having been raped could certainly contribute to that. I wonder if he has other things in his past as well.
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

mega1 said:


> Early on when my son was younger... I saw him being too aggressive with him. If he'd accidentally step on his foot or nudge him in the groin, he would forcefully push our son. One time he knocked the wind out of him by "accidentally" kicking him. That's why I sent him to therapy.
> 
> Lately things seem okay... Except he tickles him a lot to the point my son is screaming to stop. And I've had to intervene. But I would imagine that's pretty normal, yes?
> 
> ...


Yeah that sounds like pretty normal father-son behavior. I have a feeling he would feel better about himself if he did things that made him feel a little more like a man. Maybe even just working out to get the testosterone going. He probably felt ashamed and feminized by the rape, and he may feel that way for other reasons too. But your husband's issues are complex, and I probably shouldn't try too hard to analyze them here because I don't know him. You can only work on how you respond to him and deal with him (or you can decide to leave). You can't "fix" him.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

I thought your story sounded familiar from another forum... Has your H ever armtwisted you to write erotica to bring in money?

What kind of videos are you doing now? Not porn, is it?


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Yes, he did want me to write erotica to generate money. But it never sold. 
NO! The videos are NOT porn. 




Blonde said:


> I thought your story sounded familiar from another forum... Has your H ever armtwisted you to write erotica to bring in money?
> 
> What kind of videos are you doing now? Not porn, is it?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I think I remember reading the story about the rape and the other stuff when you mentioned it on another thread. He could have been raped or it could have been an experiment or he could be gay or he could be confused about his sexuality. He's the only one who knows the story there. 

His "odd duck" behavior would be a deal breaker for some even without the work issue. So you have a lot of thinking to do.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Yes,... This is true. 

I have a friend who is adamant that I leave, saying she think's my husnand's actions and verbiage is dangerous for our son to be around. Saying any husnand who would work his wife to the extreme... Is not healthy for a child's environment. "when mommy gets this job/business...maybe we can get that big house etc". 

Is that how most of you would see it?



Openminded said:


> I think I remember reading the story about the rape and the other stuff when you mentioned it on another thread. He could have been raped or it could have been an experiment or he could be gay or he could be confused about his sexuality. He's the only one who knows the story there.
> 
> His "odd duck" behavior would be a deal breaker for some even without the work issue. So you have a lot of thinking to do.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

mega1 said:


> Yes,... This is true.
> 
> I have a friend who is adamant that I leave, saying she think's my husnand's actions and verbiage is dangerous for our son to be around. Saying any husnand who would work his wife to the extreme... Is not healthy for a child's environment. "when mommy gets this job/business...maybe we can get that big house etc".
> 
> Is that how most of you would see it?


I too would be concerned about comments like that. It's teaching your son that a man is weak and that the woman carries all responsibilities. Not cool at all.


Do you say anything to your son when you hear your husband making those types of remarks?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I would be very uncomfortable with all of it, frankly. Very uncomfortable.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

In his defense, I don't hear it very often any more. I brought it up in therapy and he's toned it down. 

But that is the mentality.. That seems to always present. 




EleGirl said:


> I too would be concerned about comments like that. It's teaching your son that a man is weak and that the woman carries all responsibilities. Not cool at all.
> 
> 
> Do you say anything to your son when you hear your husband making those types of remarks?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

He does not sound like the best role model for your son, that is true.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Problem is he is the boy's SAHD and you are the breadwinner so he is likely to get custody, child support, and spousal maintenance. Not sure that is a healthy direction to go?

If I was you, I'd work with your therapist on boundaries, mega. 

Going along with a move you didn't want to make, going along with writing erotica you didn't want to write, engaging in sexual activity that is distasteful to you (the HJ's)...

They are all boundary violations and when a boundary is violated it is quite normal (and healthy) to feel angry.

BTW, my H experimented with homosexuality (technically was a victim of statutory rape when he was 14 or so) and grew up exposed to hard core porn from preschool age. I think his history of unhealed baggage surrounding childhood sexual abuse is a HUGE contributing factor to his present day handicaps.

If you could see your husband as handicapped, I think it might help you some. OTH don't go overboard that way and allow it to be an excuse for him violating yours or your son's boundaries.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Good points, Blonde. 
I wish I could understand, but he's in an ultra perfect albeit insincere perfect husnand mode. 

He stopped me today and said I just want to look into your eyes and tell you what a beautiful woman you are and what an amazing mother you are... 

I know that's very sweet, but history makes me question how serious he is with that statement... 

Just hard to say why he's saying that and what motivation he has...





Blonde said:


> Problem is he is the boy's SAHD and you are the breadwinner so he is likely to get custody, child support, and spousal maintenance. Not sure that is a healthy direction to go?
> 
> If I was you, I'd work with your therapist on boundaries, mega.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Blonde said:


> Have you read about Aspergers? Therapy doesn't work with them. They are incapable of introspection. The only thing that works is behavior modification.
> 
> You REWARD good behavior and progress and you make bad behavior such a negative experience for them that they don't repeat it (eg don't jerk him off if he pulls out. Get furious. A bucket of cold water comes to mind... )


Ths echos what I wrote earlier. is Aspergers the diagosis? In any case the strategy is logical for him
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

No he's never been diagnosed w aspergers. But I have definitely seen symptoms of something... 

He would be horrified if I even brought that up... 





LongWalk said:


> Ths echos what I wrote earlier. is Aspergers the diagosis? In any case the strategy is logical for him
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

I knew nothing about Aspergers, until this work out buddy became so bizarre. He pursued a woman friend who initially was attracted to him. He got close to her by coaching her in our sport and wanted to use these exchanges as an opportunity for something more. Not an unreasonable approach, but he transformed it into a complete nightmare. For example, he unfriended her on Facebook and said he'd break off all contact and three days later he called her and tried to initiate new contact. She found him crazy.

In aftermath of this he would parrot instructional books on how to have success with women. Even if some of the ideas might inspire men who are too "nice", it was clear that did not have much empathy for women. The truisms of the player theory turned him into a manipulator.

It seemed that women fell into categories: women colleagues, wives and girlfriends of his males friends and acquaintances. The rest were one's that he could potentially have sex with or failed to meet his standards, which were very rigid.

He managed to have a cyber sex affair with an odd woman in California. She was overt and unsubtle in her discussions about sex. For most men it would be disturbing but for my friend it was straightforward talk that he appreciated. He almost invited her to meet him on a trip to the US, but he chickened out. 

Later he got mixed up with some dysfunctional woman who borrowed a large sum of money from him. Eventually, he started dating and having short relationships. He regained self confidence but never has managed to establish any sort of emotionally meaningful bond. It's very odd. I never would have thought that person could be like that, but his mind simply lacks broad stretches of empathy.

Your husband seems to share some of these features, too. A long stretch without intimacy and then he proposes sex. After that sex your intimacy remains retarded. Now that you are clearly dissatisfied, he is trying to say the right things, but they sound disingenuous to you. In fact, he trying to follow what he perceives as a rule, whereas a normal person would want such speech to flow from an emotional reservoir of genuine feeling. 

He may find you attractive and beautiful but it doesn't naturally come into his head to say it to you. When he does say it you are confused because what you are hearing is the result of analysis that he has done. And you are right. But if you ask him if he really means it, he'll be very indignant.

Whenever you suggest that emotional reality has problems, he doesn't see them. Bankruptcy is horrible and yet he is not upset. It's like my friend unfriending on FB and then calling to chat relationship a couple of days later.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> I
> Your husband seems to share some of these features, too. A long stretch without intimacy and then he proposes sex. After that sex your intimacy remains retarded. Now that you are clearly dissatisfied, he is trying to say the right things, but they sound disingenuous to you. In fact, he trying to follow what he perceives as a rule, whereas a normal person would want such speech to flow from an emotional reservoir of genuine feeling.


^^He modified his behavior so that he could experience what he considers positive benefit.

My husband and I attended Retrouvaille and for him, he learned ways to modify his behavior so that he isn't so offensive and off-putting. The language of emotions and the concept of emotional intimacy are alien to him, he just doesn't get it. 

Some of my kids find his use of the communication techniques annoying because it's clearly shallow and could be construed as manipulative, but I *frame it* as an expression of love. (When he tries it on the kids, they will tell him "Stop it dad. You sound so insincere"). He's mimicking something which is clearly so alien to him and not "heartfelt" but he is doing it for my sake, to soothe the feathers he has ruffled when he opened his mouth and inserted his foot.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> I
> Your husband seems to share some of these features, too. *A long stretch without intimacy and then he proposes sex*. After that sex your intimacy remains retarded. Now that you are clearly dissatisfied, he is trying to say the right things, but they sound disingenuous to you. In fact, he trying to follow what he perceives as a rule, whereas a normal person would want such speech to flow from an emotional reservoir of genuine feeling.


Longwalk, are you using sex and intimacy as synonyms? For my husband sex=love. If we don't have sex for two weeks, he's ready to call a lawyer and get a divorce. (Not sure what to make of mega1's husband? My H has religious reservations against masturbating though, so I suppose that could be the main difference)

There is a whole nother kind of intimacy- emotional intimacy. Asperger traits--> lack empathy and have difficulty with emotional intimacy. *They are very self-referenced.* Since sex=love for him it should for me. Since he thought it was belly laugh hilarious to put his pre-teen daughter to tears over her "deep belly button", why on earth is she still traumatized and mad at him about that 10 years later? It would be so easy to apologize and make amends but he doesn't want to own that he wounded her with his "open mouth, insert foot" mouth.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> Whenever you suggest that emotional reality has problems, he doesn't see them. Bankruptcy is horrible and yet he is not upset. It's like my friend unfriending on FB and then calling to chat relationship a couple of days later.


A few years back, my husband lost another in a long series of jobs and when I asked how he felt, he insisted he was happy and confident.

In a way,after 30 years of marriage, I have come to appreciate his emotional evenness. It can be *framed* as a strength. No matter what happens, he only has two emotions- Happy or Angry. He never expresses sad, hurt, depressed. Only seen him cry twice- when our dog died and when his father died.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

SOme interesting things have happened over the last 2 days..my husband was telling me about a freelance job he was being considered for... And he said he was just contacted out of the blue by this "guy". Well, it turns out it is a woman. He left his email open on our computer and I saw her email.. It was flirtatious and he was talking about football and art with her too... She made it very clear in the email that she's single. 

Well I just left the email open too. He noticed it was open and asked me why I opened it. I told him I found it that way... Well within an hour he had changed his password. 

I just find it all weird.... 

Also, he told me today he had a 90 dollar coupl and wants to hire a maid. 

Grrrrr




Blonde said:


> A few years back, my husband lost another in a long series of jobs and when I asked how he felt, he insisted he was happy and confident.
> 
> In a way,after 30 years of marriage, I have come to appreciate his emotional evenness. It can be *framed* as a strength. No matter what happens, he only has two emotions- Happy or Angry. He never expresses sad, hurt, depressed. Only seen him cry twice- when our dog died and when his father died.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Can you put a key logger on the computer?


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

I could, but I dont know if it warrants that...do you? 

I think he knows all of my passwords but I'm not certain. But he did seem caught off guard when he saw that his email was open. 



EleGirl said:


> Can you put a key logger on the computer?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Well, he's in a basically sexless marriage and he does not have very strong moral/religious reservations as demonstrated by the history of porn addiction and armtwisting you to write erotica.

mega1, my H is good looking, the father of my children, and attentive to pleasing me in bed. He has some handicaps r/t impulse control, and inserting foot in mouth. I've decided that I can tolerate his handicaps/deficiencies and love him anyway. (He also knows the lines and he knows if he crosses them the marriage will be over.)

You are going to have to decide if you can do that with your husband. If you want your marriage to work, it can't remain a sexless marriage IMO. I totally understand that you don't want to participate in his self centered version of sex, but you did say therapy had set him on the path of trying to please you. The new therapeutic version of sex might be a lot of fun if you can learn to reframe the things about him that irritate you so they don't distract you from enjoying the moment.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

It's mot easy to make these decisions. I actually had a dream last night that he told me that he has wanted to leave me for months... I attributed it to he lack of intimacy. 

On the financial front... I JUST found a house a stone's throw from our current home...that is VERY nice...and I could reduce our monthly expenses by about 1300! AT LEAST! 

I am thrilled...and part of me wants to just say "we are moving"....get on board or don't...

But, I AM scared. It's a great place for all of us...but, it is going to come down to my bankruptcy. "I" could leave because of the bankruptcy...but it could end up causing trouble for my husband and HIS credit. 

If this was to happen and work....I would have to take care of it all FOR HIM. He will NOT be happy....

Choices.. -- 1) Tell him we are moving...I'm going to cite my bankruptcy and he can either come along...or don't. (He will say you absolutely can NOT saddle me with this lease/bankruptcy and will get extremely irate).

2) Don't move...and stay where we are ...praying to God we can make our bills every month. 

This really...could save us a TON of money. I know it would save ME a ton of money... But, i'm scared.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

you are nuts if you are actually considering staying in a place where you can barely pay the bills - unless you like living like that.

I dont see what you bankruptcy has to do with it. Fact is - you cant really afford your current place, right?


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Well, "I" was the only one who filed bankruptcy. My husband did not...although BOTH of our names are on the lease. So, if I walk away to find a much more affordable place...then my husband COULD be sued...on his own, because he isn't protected by the bankruptcy.

And....as I mentioned earlier in the thread...we COULD afford the house we are in...but because my husband isn't bringing in as much as he expected with freelance work...it's really month by month.

IF I get my own side business going (in addition to my 50 hour REAL job)...I can keep us going...but I am really really tired for working so much...



anotherguy said:


> you are nuts if you are actually considering staying in a place where you can barely pay the bills - unless you like living like that.
> 
> I dont see what you bankruptcy has to do with it. Fact is - you cant really afford your current place, right?


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

ahh sorry. I didnt see you were under lease contract. My bad.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Hmm, can't say I think breaking the lease is a great idea. Maybe your landlord would let you out? Does that seem possible? Otherwise you may just have to tough it out until the lease is up.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

So, if you were me, what would you do? 

I could just force the issue and say we are moving and that's it...(since I am the one bringing home the money)...

Or...I could cater to his concerns and stay where we are... despite living paycheck to paycheck. 

At this point..I COULD say....if you want to stay together... we are moving?

The problem is...I keep thinking what IF our business takes off...and we don't NEED to move. Will I be making a mistake?

I see that I could get out of the lease..by paying a 3500 dollar penalty... "I" wouldn't need to do that because of my bankrutcpy...but I could do it to free my husband....


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## greenfern (Oct 20, 2012)

You keep saying you are the one making the money but your husband earns 4k a month gross while taking care of your son & keeping up the house right? (I didn't read all posts). It sounds like he is doing pretty darn well. Even if he wasnt earning that much - my x stayed home, didn't earn anything, and I would never have made unilateral decisions about moving because "I earned the money". 

Maybe more background I am missing bc I didn't read the whole thread...?


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## greenfern (Oct 20, 2012)

Also if you are saving $1300 a month its only 2.5 months to save the $3500 penalty. Seems like a good financial decision you both might agree on if you discussed it together?


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

I wish I could say the deal was possible, but I got to it too late. Oh well...back to the drawing board.

To give you my thread in a nutshell. My husband doesn't want to cut costs...and I just filed for bankruptcy (alone) because he didn't want to ruin his credit. 

And he quit his full time job to work on his business...which he now is not doing any marketing for...and is asking me to do that as well as my full time day job... 

And the idea of moving to something less expensive...is something he isn't willing to do..because he says the finances will be just fine.

In fact, he hired a 300 dollar a month lawn crew and wants a maid too.. (since he says he has a coupon)


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

mega1 said:


> So, if you were me, what would you do?
> 
> I could just force the issue and say we are moving and that's it...(since I am the one bringing home the money)...
> 
> ...


I would not be able to tolerate living beyond our means. If I was in your shoes, I might break the lease for something even less expensive than the one you found. Really deeply cut back your expenses. Dave Ramsey (talk radio) would call the $3500 "stupid tax" and say that it's an expensive lesson that you never want to repeat.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

mega1 said:


> I wish I could say the deal was possible, but I got to it too late. Oh well...back to the drawing board.
> 
> To give you my thread in a nutshell. My husband doesn't want to cut costs...and I just filed for bankruptcy (alone) because he didn't want to ruin his credit.
> 
> ...


If you do not have the money for the lawn crew and maid then tell him no.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Exactly, put your foot down. You keep following the same pattern -- "There goes my husband again, can you believe what he did?!" Why can't you say no to him? The funny thing is, you're the one earning most of the money and yet you're terrified of being assertive about your finances, letting a husband who's something of a man-child run them instead.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Well, I told him I didn't think it was in the budget, whatsoever. I asked him to cancel. Then, today, I saw the lawn guys there..and doing tree trimming. Which we are also paying for...on this rental property. 

Should I go home and blow up? Tell him I am ticked off? It will work against me because he will just pout.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

You shouldn't have to "blow up" to tell him no. Just be firm and don't back down. "There is not going to be any more expensive lawn service, and if you have a problem with that, you're going to have to pick up some more work to pay for it."


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

And he says "...but c'mon, these guys are professionals, it costs money, we need it..." etc.

And you say "I said no. We can't afford it. This is not up for debate."


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Blonde said:


> Longwalk, are you using sex and intimacy as synonyms? For my husband sex=love. If we don't have sex for two weeks, he's ready to call a lawyer and get a divorce. (Not sure what to make of mega1's husband? My H has religious reservations against masturbating though, so I suppose that could be the main difference)
> 
> There is a whole nother kind of intimacy- emotional intimacy. Asperger traits--> lack empathy and have difficulty with emotional intimacy. *They are very self-referenced.* Since sex=love for him it should for me. Since he thought it was belly laugh hilarious to put his pre-teen daughter to tears over her "deep belly button", why on earth is she still traumatized and mad at him about that 10 years later? It would be so easy to apologize and make amends but he doesn't want to own that he wounded her with his "open mouth, insert foot" mouth.


Sex and intimacy are not the same. Normal people want a blend and are offended by the disconnection of the two if they consider themselves in a loving relationship.

The most obvious example of intimacy is post coital affection. If you are happy together after sexual desire is sated, then you like the other person's company. But their are many examples, each couple has their own little language of signals. 

You can have sex with many people but emotional intimacy is more difficult to find. One key element is that women generally consider sex a surrender to vulnerability, which makes sense since pregnancy requires a mate to get through pregnancy, a very risky business in the wild state. Men generally feel a sense of satisfaction. 

Intimacy is when those two needs are met. If a woman feels that the man is masculine, the sex was good and he is staying and cares for her, she is happy. If the man feels she is attractive, the sex was good and she wants me here and I don't feel like leaving, then he is happy.

Intimacy is tested by real life.


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## greenfern (Oct 20, 2012)

mega1 said:


> To give you my thread in a nutshell. My husband doesn't want to cut costs...and I just filed for bankruptcy (alone) because he didn't want to ruin his credit.
> 
> And he quit his full time job to work on his business...which he now is not doing any marketing for...and is asking me to do that as well as my full time day job...


I just really want to understand - sorry for harping on this but I dont' get it. He does or does not earn 48k while being a SAHD? I think elsewhere you said he worked 3hours a day and watched your child after school, and did at least some cooking.

This sounds like an AMAZING sahd! If my x had been able to work 3 hours a day while he was a sahd (with two kids, but both in elementary school) I would have been amazed. 

He sounds like he is crap with money & you guys need to work on that but continually putting him down for not earning as much as you - most men or women with a sah spouse would be very very happy with this.

Now - and I TOTALLY get this. You don't want him to be a sahd. You will probably never be happy with him like this (I just used the above information as a reality check that actually for a SAHD he is doing a pretty decent job by most standards).

So you say to him you need him to get a corporate job. I think you have said this to him, but how clearly have you said it? I thought I was clear with my x that I wanted him to go back to work but after we divorced he said he really didn't know it was that big of a deal. So my communication clearly failed there. If he refuses to get a corporate job and its a showstopper for you then you have to leave.

I also paid alimony, I lost the matrimonial home, and I lost half of my assets. A few years later I am back on track. If your x is as bad with money as you say will financially be better off on your own. If he is earning 48k a year you might not have to pay that much alimony or child support. You can get a smaller place, sufficient for you & your son (assuming you can get half time custody) and you will probably save a ton of money since you guys sound like you are in a pretty big house right now.


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## greenfern (Oct 20, 2012)

mega1 said:


> Well, I told him I didn't think it was in the budget, whatsoever. I asked him to cancel. Then, today, I saw the lawn guys there..and doing tree trimming. Which we are also paying for...on this rental property.
> 
> Should I go home and blow up? Tell him I am ticked off? It will work against me because he will just pout.


I have the pouting problem too with my current bf. I am interested to know how one manages it. I think I have probably enabled the sulk/pout by trying to make him feel better every time he does it. I need to find a way in between blowing up and saying "sorry, don't be upset, please, but I just REALLY don't think we can afford the tree trimming..ok? you aren't mad right? " (using your example obviously we don't have a problem with him ordering tree trimmers).


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

This is just a tough thing.... I always end up doing exactly what you do.... Just to find peace. 


S for my husband... Here's the thing. Yes he has made 4k this past month. But he has nothing next month.... He isn't working very hard to recruit more biz.... 

And yes I am happy he's home with our son, but we have one 7 year old who is in school until 3 everyday. He's not doing laundry or wiping noses all day. 

I often resort back to looking at the situation... With a positive like you did... But what about next month? Or the following? 

That's my concern... The future. 





greenfern said:


> I have the pouting problem too with
> 
> 
> 
> my current bf. I am interested to know how one manages it. I think I have probably enabled the sulk/pout by trying to make him feel better every time he does it. I need to find a way in between blowing up and saying "sorry, don't be upset, please, but I just REALLY don't think we can afford the tree trimming..ok? you aren't mad right? " (using your example obviously we don't have a problem with him ordering tree trimmers).


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## greenfern (Oct 20, 2012)

Well I had 3 years with zero income (from my xh). I think you have to either truly embrace your H as a SAHD where you don't expect him to have income & if he does, its a bonus, or you have to say it is just NOT working for you and you need to be part of a two income family.

It sounds like you have tried telling him to go back to work & he refuses/avoids the request so he does need to understand its a deal breaker for you.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

mega1 said:


> SOme interesting things have happened over the last 2 days..my husband was telling me about a freelance job he was being considered for... And he said he was just contacted out of the blue by this "guy". Well, it turns out it is a woman. He left his email open on our computer and I saw her email.. It was flirtatious and he was talking about football and art with her too... She made it very clear in the email that she's single.
> 
> Well I just left the email open too. He noticed it was open and asked me why I opened it. I told him I found it that way... Well within an hour he had changed his password.
> 
> ...


Mega1
Have read every one of your posts.......exhausting

Sorry but you're not coming off here as a convincing victim. This and a few other posts look like you are 'projecting' some things onto him. E.g. you are the one that had the affair, you have resisted discussing it in any detail here, and yet you post about weak suspicions on him being unfaithful.......

How long did your affair last, how serious did it get, how physical etc??


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Sometimes we spend too much time asking ourselves "why is my spouse like this" and not enough time asking "how did I get here?" Or we ask "what did I do to deserve this?" only in a rhetorical sense, when we should really be asking ourselves "what did I do to deserve this?" In other words, why did I choose to marry this person in the first place? How have I contributed to our patterns? What do I get out of staying that I'm not admitting to myself? Why am I unable to accept my role in our life choices? Why can't I live with the decisions I make?


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Yes, in hindsight this is very true. I was up in the middle of the night panicked about money and how I was going to succeed. I'm terribly conflicted. First, our son seems happier than ever... He is really doing well and seems better than he's been in some time. Laughing more etc. I have concerns that he may have aspergers because he struggles at times... But now .. He's doing very well. 

2). I took my husband and son today to look at a cheaper house for lease. My son loved it. My husnand hated it. It's about a thousand dollars a month cheaper... And he really hated it. He did not ask if there were others in that price range etc. he just hated it. It would sell for 500k but he hates it. 

Not sure how to proceed. I'm very down today. His concerns w the layout were valid, but I don't know what else to do. It's the best at that price point and he just loathed it. It's a mile further from our son's school and he made it out like its 50 miles. I love our current home too! But I'm scared about money. 

I'm also just...tired. I don't want to fight. And I'm loosing my ambition. 



John Lee said:


> Sometimes we spend too much time asking ourselves "why is my spouse like this" and not enough time asking "how did I get here?" Or we ask "what did I do to deserve this?" only in a rhetorical sense, when we should really be asking ourselves "what did I do to deserve this?" In other words, why did I choose to marry this person in the first place? How have I contributed to our patterns? What do I get out of staying that I'm not admitting to myself? Why am I unable to accept my role in our life choices? Why can't I live with the decisions I make?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You can do a simple calculation and show it go him to illustrate that you are not making it money-wise.

Did you print out a few job for final cut editors?

Tell him he has to get a job with x months of you divorce. You can file now and explain that before it becomes fnal he has to find job.

Cut off any supply of money that you give. Cut it to zero.


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Well "I" think I just got myself a very good contract for "my" side business today. I'm super excited. But my issue is he is so thrilled he thinks that will solve our $$$ problems for awhile. But I'm looking ahead. And wanting to repay debt instead of just making it. That's the disconnect. He sees no reason why we should uproot our family If I have gotten more $$$$ with my side work. 

Big picture is not in sight for him. 





LongWalk said:


> You can do a simple calculation and show it go him to illustrate that you are not making it money-wise.
> 
> Did you print out a few job for final cut editors?
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

It sounds like you have a hard time insisting on anything with him. Of course he didn't like the house, he's being a petulant child, but you have to be firmer. Fine, he didn't like one house, that's fair. But why not give him an ultimatum -- tell him that within three months you have to find a house that is a minimum of $x cheaper. If he wants to search listings and find houses to look at, that's fine, and if he wants to have a say in the decision, that's fine. But the move is non-negotiable, and it has to be at least $x cheaper, and if he can't find one he likes, you're just going to decide. And sit him down with a simple spreadsheet of your finances or something so he can see what the issue is. Explain some concrete goal that you need to reach, or some concrete problem on the horizon if you don't fix things ("We won't be able to send our son to college." "We'll have to work into our 70s" "We won't have any cushion if I get sick" etc.)

It sounds to me like you yourself may have some trouble making your finances concrete, although I'm not sure. Do you actually sit down and list all your expenses and add them up? Do you think about percentages of your income toward housing, food, savings, etc.? I keep hearing you say vague things about "finally getting your finances together" etc., yet it sounds like you're making a lot of money and have trouble making your lifestyle fit your budget.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

mega1 said:


> Yes, in hindsight this is very true. I was up in the middle of the night panicked about money and how I was going to succeed.
> 
> ***
> I'm also just...tired. I don't want to fight. And I'm loosing my ambition.
> ...


The thing I find strange is that it sounds like you are somewhat successful by most people's standards, unless I'm misunderstanding. You seem to be setting up "success" as this vague, undefined distant goal that really you can never reach, like a setup for failure. You say you're "panicked about money" but do you have a concrete sense of how much money you'd like to be bringing in as a goal, or is it just "a lot more"? Do you have specific financial goals?


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## mega1 (Sep 20, 2013)

You are correct. I was going through Dave Ramsey's website yesterday and realizing just how off base our finances really are...it isn't even funny. 
I really think right now the first step is reducing the rent. I told him about the moving into an apt idea to drastically reduce spending and he was definitely not keen on that. 

For our son's sake we just need to get someone that is consistent and affordable. I won't force an apartment bit if we could reduce our housing by 1k a month, that will be a huge relief. But, it won't happen without complaining and disappointment. I don't think we have 3 months to decide... We need to be proactive. And yes... I need him to do some lawn work! 




John Lee said:


> The thing I find strange is that it sounds like you are somewhat successful by most people's standards, unless I'm misunderstanding. You seem to be setting up "success" as this vague, undefined distant goal that really you can never reach, like a setup for failure. You say you're "panicked about money" but do you have a concrete sense of how much money you'd like to be bringing in as a goal, or is it just "a lot more"? Do you have specific financial goals?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Cut off all money to him. Insist that he come up with half of all the expense you have. Run spread sheet and calculate his debt. 

If he comes to you and starts talking about all the work he does, then you can equate some of it with a fair hourly wage. Other parts should be voluntary labor that is part of married life.

When you are totally frustrated and turned off you have to go to 50,000 ft. 

Ask your husband to remember when he was kicking azz at work, doing a good job. Tell him you were proud of him.

Print out Procut job listings and tell him to started identifying good prospects. He needs to have a sharp CV ready to go.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

mega1 said:


> You are correct. I was going through Dave Ramsey's website yesterday and realizing just how off base our finances really are...it isn't even funny.
> I really think right now the first step is reducing the rent. I told him about the moving into an apt idea to drastically reduce spending and he was definitely not keen on that.
> 
> For our son's sake we just need to get someone that is consistent and affordable. I won't force an apartment bit if we could reduce our housing by 1k a month, that will be a huge relief. But, it won't happen without complaining and disappointment. I don't think we have 3 months to decide... We need to be proactive. And yes... I need him to do some lawn work!
> ...


Good, that's a good start. I was going to ask whether you had ever read any personal finance books, and suggest that maybe you start working with one. It will take some real work to get your finances on track, but I'm guessing that will remove some of the stress from your life, and it will benefit you greatly whether or not you stay in your marriage -- you need to do it either way. Plus, that will remove an issue that may be clouding your ability to tell whether you really want to stay, since right now you've built this trap for yourself where you're always worrying about money and then feeling like it's your lazy husband's fault.


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## wabert (Oct 15, 2013)

Mam, you have gone the xtra mile in all of this, I have read almost this whole thread, as a male who is suffering from 25 yrs of being physically rejected in 35 yrs of marriage, my only suggestion would be , if you can still work up any passion for this man, try a month of wide open sex, and if that doesn t change his attitude, move on, he has no other excuse, I m not an expert for sure, but I am a type A and sex is a powerful motivator in men like myself. i get awfully edgy when rejected for long periods of time, I have been in councilling and tested for being a sex addict, I am not, thank goodness. I am someome who needs physical love and tenderness from the one I love. I am a hopeless romantic who dotes on pleasing and caring for my mate. I m a mess, I ve had a relationship with an old flame which lasted about six mo.s , i confessed to my wife and family and was trying to get over 25 yrs of rejection. I tell you this so you can consider the source of my suggestion.


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