# Sleep sex



## calamityjim (Jul 18, 2014)

I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I haven't seen it at the top of the forum recently, so let's go. 

Occasionally, my wife will get in the mood after I'm asleep. Sometimes, this results in her initiating things, generally by touching me, and proceeding onto oral. In other words, I am occasionally awoken with a blow job. This is obviously incredible and is generally followed by phenomenal sex. 

Occasionally, I will get in the mood after my wife is asleep. Sometimes, this results in me initiating things, generally by touching her, and proceeding onto oral. Although, I often genuinely am not aware that I'm doing this. Sure, at some point I wake up and become more aware, but my judgement is still clouded by sleep, and the momentum is already there.

When my wife inevitably wakes up, she is incredibly, over-the-top offended. But when it happens to me, I am incredibly, over-the-top joyous. 

So... "sleep sex?" or "rape?" Discuss.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

I wouldn't call it rape. I wouldn't be offended if my husband did this. If she is offended don't do it to her anymore.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

So it's okay for her to do...but not you?
Have you ever just asked her why this double standard exists?


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Not rape, the way you are describing it. I don't understand how it's ok for your wife to do it to you but if it's done to her it's wrong. 
Is she usually a " do as I say not as I do " person?


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

I can remember many many years ago a GF often used to wake me up with a BJ...and yes it was WOW! 
Sadly waking me up like that is far too disgusting for my wife to ever have done it.
Oh I've asked her to and asked if I could wake her up in a 'nice' way too...."God you are such a perverted sex maniac"....so I gave up.

Sleep sex or rape?.... 'Your honour...I really didn't mean to rape her because I was asleep'...yeah right! I can see a judge buying that one!
In marriage if your wife is asleep and you are semi asleep and you start doing her, so long as she slays asleep so can't actually tell you to stop, No I don't think it would count as rape.
Because marital sex is a norm, its accepted.

However, if your wife woke up and quite clearly told you to stop and you didn't....yes I think that would constitute marital rape.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Definitely "sleep sex"... NOT rape.

Personally, I love sleep sex. And fwiw OP, my partner does the same thing. Sometimes if I come to bed after he is already asleep, he will roll over and start doing wonderful things to me. I am usually smiling ear to ear because I realize he's in a kind of dream state. Half the time, he barely remembers any of it in the morning. I am not offended in the least. I'm delighted that I can turn him on even when he's barely awake or aware. :sleeping:

I think it has to do with the stage of sleep he's in, and absolutely NOTHING to do with him "raping" me.

Your wife is holding you to a very unfair double standard. She should cut out the nocturnal BJs if she's so offended by your obvious and enthusiastic reciprocation. H*ll, you could claim she's raping YOU because you aren't even awake when she starts.

The other morning I woke up in the BEST mood. He said, "Why are you so smiley and happy?" I said, "I had the best dream last night... we were having wild sex." His reply? "That wasn't a dream!" :rofl:


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

There is something called "implied consent". Being married, naked, and sleeping in the same bed together normally means you have consent for sex (believe it or not, there are certain radical feminists who disagree, and if they had their way, men would be jailed for not getting consent in writing for sex). 

However, if your wife specifically told you that she doesn't like it, then you don't have that consent. But as Samurai pointed out, that's a double standard for her, isn't it? Why don't you ask her about that?


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

It isn't a double standard to have different sexual preferences than your partner folks. What you like is what you like and you don't have to like something that your partner likes. 

Askari - really? If a woman is asleep and can't say "no" it isn't rape? Drunk girl passed out on the couch can't say no - so it isn't rape? Think about that again. 

I agree with Theseus about the implied consent thing with your spouse in bed - the first time you try something AND that if she's told you that she doesn't like it that you shouldn't do it. I've never heard of people being able to go down on their partner in a "dream state" so don't know what that's all about. OP - are you saying you don't know that you're doing it?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

think I'm going to have to try sleep anal


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

askari said:


> I can remember many many years ago a GF often used to wake me up with a BJ...and yes it was WOW!
> Sadly waking me up like that is far too disgusting for my wife to ever have done it.
> Oh I've asked her to and asked if I could wake her up in a 'nice' way too...."God you are such a perverted sex maniac"....so I gave up.
> 
> ...





firebelly1 said:


> It isn't a double standard to have different sexual preferences than your partner folks. What you like is what you like and you don't have to like something that your partner likes.
> 
> Askari - really? If a woman is asleep and can't say "no" it isn't rape? Drunk girl passed out on the couch can't say no - so it isn't rape? Think about that again.
> 
> I agree with Theseus about the implied consent thing with your spouse in bed - the first time you try something AND that if she's told you that she doesn't like it that you shouldn't do it. I've never heard of people being able to go down on their partner in a "dream state" so don't know what that's all about. OP - are you saying you don't know that you're doing it?


In askari's defense, it WAS qualified with "In marriage" based on implied consent, so your example of a drunk girl passed out doesn't really apply, especially in light of the paragraph that followed.

You are spot on with different standards not being the same thing as double standards


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

my wife loves her sleep. She does not get offended, but sometimes pretends she is asleep when she is not. Or says something like "give me a few minutes to wake up".


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## calamityjim (Jul 18, 2014)

firebelly1 said:


> It isn't a double standard to have different sexual preferences than your partner folks. What you like is what you like and you don't have to like something that your partner likes.
> 
> Askari - really? If a woman is asleep and can't say "no" it isn't rape? Drunk girl passed out on the couch can't say no - so it isn't rape? Think about that again.
> 
> I agree with Theseus about the implied consent thing with your spouse in bed - the first time you try something AND that if she's told you that she doesn't like it that you shouldn't do it. I've never heard of people being able to go down on their partner in a "dream state" so don't know what that's all about. OP - are you saying you don't know that you're doing it?


Correct. Often, I'm unaware of my actions when it gets started, and when I semi-wake up later, I'm still cloudy and my actions are primarily being dictated by my state of arousal rather than my consciousness.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> In askari's defense, it WAS qualified with "In marriage" based on implied consent, so your example of a drunk girl passed out doesn't really apply, especially in light of the paragraph that followed.
> 
> You are spot on with different standards not being the same thing as double standards


Yes - he said "in marriage" but he also said "so long as she stays asleep so can't actually tell you to stop..." not cool.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Thanks samyeagar - someone who is drunk is deemed 'unable' to give consent. Men have been convicted of rape with mentally impaired women because the law also deems them 'unable' to give consent. Thank goodness.

Now where were we? Oh yes...sleep sex.

The OP likes being woken up by his wife going down on him - lucky ba$tard!....but she doesn't like him doing the same to her. Each to their own.

I hate tomatoes, my wife loves them. I love sex, my wife hates it.

Response to above post - If she woke up whilst he was having sex with her and she specifically told him to stop and he refused...I think a judge would see that as rape. Just because you are married to someone does not give you the LEGAL RIGHT to have sex with that person.
I also hear 'implied consent'....I don't think a judge would accept; 'She is my wife, she was lying there asleep and naked so I had sex with her' as a legitimate defence...


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

calamityjim said:


> Correct. Often, I'm unaware of my actions when it gets started, and when I semi-wake up later, I'm still cloudy and my actions are primarily being dictated by my state of arousal rather than my consciousness.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So, you're sleep licking?  Pretty good defense.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

calamityjim said:


> When my wife inevitably wakes up, she is incredibly, over-the-top offended. But when it happens to me, I am incredibly, over-the-top joyous.
> 
> So... "sleep sex?" or "rape?" Discuss.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Does your wife consider it to be rape?

This is something the two of you are going to need to hash out in any event, but even more so if your wife considers some sleep-groping to be a criminal offense.

I'm not sure where the compromise position is, particular if neither of you are aware of starting the action, but this has to be at least calmly discussed.


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## calamityjim (Jul 18, 2014)

firebelly1 said:


> So, you're sleep licking?  Pretty good defense.


Well, it has occasionally moved past that into full PIV, but usually she wakes up and freaks out before it gets to that point. Also, this is uncommon and probably happens twice a year-ish.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

So, you like to be awakened by a bj from your wife, who also apparently enjoys awakening you that way. So, let her continue and everyone's happy. Your wife dislikes being approached for sex when she's asleep. So, stop doing that. 

Sorry, but how is getting a bj you want, and not having to reciprocate, in any way not a "win" for you? :slap:


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

samyeagar said:


> In askari's defense, it WAS qualified with "In marriage" based on implied consent, so your example of a drunk girl passed out doesn't really apply, especially in light of the paragraph that followed.
> 
> You are spot on with different standards not being the same thing as double standards


Sorry No.

Neither party gives up autonomy over their body by virtue of being married. Either party, always has the right to say no. If your assumption were correct there would be no such thing as rape within a marriage-and there is. Lots of states specifically include "while asleep" as a basis for the inability to grant consent. If both parties agree to sleep sex within the confines of marriage its not unwanted, and hence, not rape.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

firebelly1 said:


> Yes - he said "in marriage" but he also said "so long as she stays asleep so can't actually tell you to stop..." not cool.


Yes, he did say that, but I think it was a clumsy way of making the point that there is implied consent within marriage...that something she had not explicitly said no to, there is a presumed green light until she says no, and his following paragraph, again clumsily makes the point that if she explicitly says No, during, or after then it is a red light and likely constitutes marital rape.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> Your wife is holding you to a very unfair double standard. She should cut out the nocturnal BJs if she's so offended by your obvious and enthusiastic reciprocation.


What...are..you...SAYING??????!!!!!!!

This is the type of double standard many men dream about.
Dont ruin it for my Homey!:smthumbup:


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## calamityjim (Jul 18, 2014)

GTdad said:


> Does your wife consider it to be rape?
> 
> This is something the two of you are going to need to hash out in any event, but even more so if your wife considers some sleep-groping to be a criminal offense.
> 
> I'm not sure where the compromise position is, particular if neither of you are aware of starting the action, but this has to be at least calmly discussed.


We have calmly discussed it, and, like you, we're not sure what the solution is, as I'm often unaware of my actions. I didn't pose the question seeking personal solutions, more just to spark discussion on the topic. The results have been very interesting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Pluto2 said:


> Sorry No.
> 
> Neither party gives up autonomy over their body by virtue of being married. Either party, always has the right to say no. If your assumption were correct there would be no such thing as rape within a marriage-and there is. Lots of states specifically include "while asleep" as a basis for the inability to grant consent. If both parties agree to sleep sex within the confines of marriage its not unwanted, and hence, not rape.


Of course both partners keep autonomy of their person, and of course there is marital rape. Of course both parties have the right to say No to things, and if the No is ignored, then it is rape, plain and simple.

If there had been no prior discussion regarding sleep sex, and if the acts done while she was sleeping are the same acts she has happily engaged in and consented to while awake, I think a strong case for implied consent is there...now, as soon as she says, Hey, I don't like that, don't do it again, well, then he'd damn well better not do it again.

It would be a whole different ball game if she had said No, I'm not doing anal, and then he tries it when she's asleep...


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

calamityjim said:


> We have calmly discussed it, and, like you, we're not sure what the solution is, as I'm often unaware of my actions. I didn't pose the question seeking personal solutions, more just to spark discussion on the topic. The results have been very interesting.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well...if it only happens twice a year and your wife knows that you're not really aware that you're doing it, hopefully she can just take it in stride and gently guide you back to your side of the bed. You would need to be really clear with her (possibly prove somehow) that you know she doesn't like it and won't do it on purpose. 

In general - during the week when i have to get up for work the next day - this might irritate me. BUT...if I could just lay there, enjoy it and not have to do anything else, and if it didn't go too long, I might be pretty okay with it. I can orgasm pretty fast under the right circumstances but if my SO then wants to have an hour long PIV session after I orgasm, I'm just irritated cuz I'm losing sleep.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

samyeagar said:


> Of course both partners keep autonomy of their person, and of course there is marital rape. Of course both parties have the right to say No to things, and if the No is ignored, then it is rape, plain and simple.
> 
> If there had been no prior discussion regarding sleep sex, and if the acts done while she was sleeping are the same acts she has happily engaged in and consented to while awake, I think a strong case for implied consent is there...now, as soon as she says, Hey, I don't like that, don't do it again, well, then he'd damn well better not do it again.
> 
> It would be a whole different ball game if she had said No, I'm not doing anal, and then he tries it when she's asleep...


Still not agreeing. You aren't separating the sexual act from the consent. 
Under your scenario, there would always be implied consent which just isn't true. Lots of couples limit different sexual acts. Ok fine. But under your scenario, the initiator is always entitled to one free-pass-sort of an "I get to rape you once with no penalty, because you liked it when you are wide awake, but I'm on notice for future rapes." What if the spouse was literally unconscious, or passed-out drunk? Are you saying it wouldn't be rape as long as it was an act they both enjoyed while fully conscious?


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

calamityjim said:


> We have calmly discussed it, and, like you, we're not sure what the solution is, as I'm often unaware of my actions. I didn't pose the question seeking personal solutions, more just to spark discussion on the topic. The results have been very interesting.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Then rather than talking calmly about it, tell her that if she gets so bent out of shape when you do it to her, then from now on tell her to keep her hands and mouth to herself when your sleeping and let her know in a way that she understands.

Yeah, I understand that it's enjoyable and you like it but when your wife gets "Offended" when you try it, tells me that one good argument and she could turn this in to something really ugly and if that happens, you have no defense. None, zero, zilch. 

Tell her that if she gets in the mood to catch you before you go to sleep or wait until morning but no more waking you up until she learns how to be able to get what she gives and meant what you say. Maybe the light bulb will go on in her head.


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## calamityjim (Jul 18, 2014)

6301 said:


> Then rather than talking calmly about it, tell her that if she gets so bent out of shape when you do it to her, then from now on tell her to keep her hands and mouth to herself when your sleeping and let her know in a way that she understands.
> 
> Yeah, I understand that it's enjoyable and you like it but when your wife gets "Offended" when you try it, tells me that one good argument and she could turn this in to something really ugly and if that happens, you have no defense. None, zero, zilch.
> 
> Tell her that if she gets in the mood to catch you before you go to sleep or wait until morning but no more waking you up until she learns how to be able to get what she gives and meant what you say. Maybe the light bulb will go on in her head.


You're crazy!  I'm not risking that!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BostonBruins32 (Nov 2, 2013)

Almostrecovered said:


> think I'm going to have to try sleep anal


I used to joke with my wife, if youre not in the mood, just lay there sideway. I can make it quick and you literally dont have to do anything.

sleep anal is next leveling it. love the idea.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Pluto2 said:


> Still not agreeing. You aren't separating the sexual act from the consent.
> Under your scenario, there would always be implied consent which just isn't true. Lots of couples limit different sexual acts. Ok fine. But under your scenario, the initiator is always entitled to one free-pass-sort of an "I get to rape you once with no penalty, because you liked it when you are wide awake, but I'm on notice for future rapes." *What if the spouse was literally unconscious, or passed-out drunk? Are you saying it wouldn't be rape as long as it was an act they both enjoyed while fully conscious*?


Within the confines of marriage, if the issue had never been addressed before, and it was something that enthusiastic consent had been given in the past, then I think it is a reasonable presumption that it would be ok until shown otherwise...that is the whole basis of implied consent, and why a marital rape charge would be very difficult in a specific one time incident. Again, moving forward from this, if she said Don't do it again, then it's an entirely different ball game. I do think that out of respect, this is one of those things that should be discussed before it happens so there are no misunderstandings.

Now for me personally, I wouldn't do anything if my wife was that drunk or otherwise incapacitated for a plethora of reasons, whether I had previous consent or not. My wife and I have actually discussed such situations are are in agreement on what is and what isn't acceptable. However, even if we HADN'T talked about this, I know my wife well enough to know what is and isn't acceptable for her.


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## U.E. McGill (Nov 27, 2013)

In my house my rule is simple. If you're in our marital bed, it's fair game. My hands roam all night. I don't ask. Often it proceeds to PIV. Occasionally my wife has has to deal with a kid or something but that's an exception. If my wife doesn't want to deal with it she can sleep on the couch. 

My wife is someone who prefers not to be bothered but her attitude is "heh I'm the only one who can do this for you, what's the harm?"


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Having interviewed women who have been raped in hospitals I think it's crude and unreasonable to use that word in this scenario


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

samyeagar said:


> Within the confines of marriage, if the issue had never been addressed before, and it was something that enthusiastic consent had been given in the past, then I think it is a reasonable presumption that it would be ok until shown otherwise...that is the whole basis of implied consent, and why a marital rape charge would be very difficult in a specific one time incident. Again, moving forward from this, if she said Don't do it again, then it's an entirely different ball game. I do think that out of respect, this is one of those things that should be discussed before it happens so there are no misunderstandings.
> 
> Now for me personally, I wouldn't do anything if my wife was that drunk or otherwise incapacitated for a plethora of reasons, whether I had previous consent or not. My wife and I have actually discussed such situations are are in agreement on what is and what isn't acceptable. However, even if we HADN'T talked about this, I know my wife well enough to know what is and isn't acceptable for her.


Guess we're going to agree to disagree. I reject the legal concept of implied consent to sex by virtue of marriage. You don't.
Your wife is lucky to have a husband who respects her and communicates.
Not all wives are that lucky.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Pluto2 said:


> Guess we're going to agree to disagree. I reject the legal concept of implied consent to sex by virtue of marriage. You don't.
> Your wife is lucky to have a husband who respects her and communicates.
> Not all wives are that lucky.


I reject the concept of implied consent in broadest term for myself, so on that we agree. I know my wife well enough, and the dynamics of our relationship well enough that the concept will not be tested.

That said, I think there has to be a balance and certain luxury afforded because of the marriage. I am not going to ask, or otherwise gain explicit consent every time I go down on her. I just do it. The is implied consent. If I feel like smacking her ass as I'm doing her from behind, I'm going to do it without asking. Again, implied consent. A lot of the things she enjoys in bed, she never knew she enjoyed before me, so she had no way of giving consent before I did them, again, implied consent based on trust.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening all
I think there are multiple (different) issues here.

People have a right to refuse to consent to anything. So if someone has made it clear that they don't want to be sexually touched when they are sleeping, that is absolutely there right. 

Separately there is the issue of "assumed consent". This is very very tricky. If I put my arms around a co-worker and kiss her on the neck, I'm guilty of assault. If I do the same to my wife, its a romantic gesture that is appreciated. I think all people can do is attempt to be "reasonable" and understand that there can be misunderstandings. Personally I would consider that "reasonable" includes gentle sexual touching of an intimate partner if you are already in bed together - IF they have not already told you that they don't want that .

I've made it clear that my wife can do whatever she wants to me when I"m sleeping. She has made it clear that she doesn't want to be touched sexually when she is sleeping. Both are fine - as long as everyone knows what is and is not consented to. 

Finally there is the issue of someone who does sexual things to their partner while they themselves are sleeping. If they can't control this then I think the only choice is to sleep in a different bed.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

U.E. McGill said:


> In my house my rule is simple. If you're in our marital bed, it's fair game. My hands roam all night. I don't ask. Often it proceeds to PIV. Occasionally my wife has has to deal with a kid or something but that's an exception. If my wife doesn't want to deal with it she can sleep on the couch.
> 
> My wife is someone who prefers not to be bothered but her attitude is "heh I'm the only one who can do this for you, what's the harm?"


So if your wife decides to peg you one night in your sleep, it's all good?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## U.E. McGill (Nov 27, 2013)

Yeah why not? F*ck she can pull my hair too.


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## JASON58 (Jul 26, 2014)

I fail to see a problem with this....


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Reminds me of a time 5 or 6 years ago, when my wife and I just started dating. We took a cruise like 6 weeks into our relationship, so it was all still new.

Anyway, I woke up in the middle of the night, on (and IN) her - she was awake by the way - and I proceeded to stop, roll over and go back to bed.

The next morning, she asked me what the hell happened? She had to jog my memory, and I vaguely remembered it at all. She was hurt and insulted! (remember, this is 6 weeks into our relationship!) I didn't remember starting, but I did remember being somewhat conscious at one point and going back to sleep.

Once we both figured out that I was not at all awake when we started, we had a good laugh, and she was no longer insulted by it 

I still hear about that one from time to time!


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## soulseer (Jul 26, 2013)

I have been woken up for a blow job once in my life . 16 years ago shortly after meeting my wife.

I wish that side of her was accessible.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calamityjim (Jul 18, 2014)

alexm said:


> Reminds me of a time 5 or 6 years ago, when my wife and I just started dating. We took a cruise like 6 weeks into our relationship, so it was all still new.
> 
> Anyway, I woke up in the middle of the night, on (and IN) her - she was awake by the way - and I proceeded to stop, roll over and go back to bed.
> 
> ...


Again, man, it's like we're the same person. Except for the stopping part...


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## where_are_we (May 24, 2013)

I would love if my husband did this. 

If she doesn't like it I think you should stop (although you did say you aren't aware sometimes...so???)

I went through a long phase where many times I woke my husband this way, say 30-60 minutes before the alarm is going to go off. I don't care if it is Tuesday am or Sunday at 8 am (no alarm). He makes me stop 100% of the time after 60 seconds of him waking. So I finally stopped doing this. His excuse: I don't have time and I am too tired.

Considering I CAN make him finish in about 2.5 minutes if I choose to, time is not an issue. 

I think it is because he doesn't want to do anything for me, but I am not always expecting that and I tell him so. He is the only man I know who would ever be too tired or not have "time" for a BJ. But, I love him.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

I think we can argue all the laws and suppositions we want, but when it comes down to the very core issue, its a matter of *respect*.

If she says she doesnt like it, then put yourself in that mindset while you are conscious and commit it to memory.
That way the restriction will kick in when you are supposedly acting "unconsciously".


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## omgitselaine (Sep 5, 2013)

Not for nothing but how I would've soo soo much enjoyed some " sleep sex " this morning  !?!?!? 

Oh well ..... coffees done brewing !?


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

where_are_we said:


> I went through a long phase where many times I woke my husband this way, say 30-60 minutes before the alarm is going to go off. I don't care if it is Tuesday am or Sunday at 8 am (no alarm). He makes me stop 100% of the time after 60 seconds of him waking. So I finally stopped doing this. His excuse: I don't have time and I am too tired.
> 
> Considering I CAN make him finish in about 2.5 minutes if I choose to, time is not an issue.
> 
> I think it is because he doesn't want to do anything for me, but I am not always expecting that and I tell him so. He is the only man I know who would ever be too tired or not have "time" for a BJ. But, I love him.


It could just be that he's not a morning person. I'm not a morning person AT ALL. The few times morning sex has been on the table, it's just taken me forever to get anywhere, and my mind just isn't "there" at that point in time, and not for lack of trying.

Plus, you know, morning breath. Ugh.


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## ariel_angel77 (May 23, 2014)

First, I think the word "rape" should be thrown out the window here because nobody could possibly think that's what you were doing. Some people think you should let it go and not do it again, but definitely not rape.

Yes, if your wife is uncomfortable with it, then you shouldn't do it. I think the case here is that men are like microwaves, they can jump right into sex right away. *Some* women are like a stove and need to be warmed up to it, with possibly some romance. 

I probably wouldn't like it if my husband had known I didn't want to the previous night, or he'd hurt my feelings the night before or something like that. But if it was all good other than that, I'd love the spontaneity.


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