# Atom Bomb was dropped on my life



## sas1643 (May 21, 2012)

First let me start by saying that I am 29 and my husband is 35. I am an educated person in the medical field and currently am in academia at a local college. Just spend the last 6 months going through an adoption process to adopt children from foster care. My husband is a rancher/farmer have been married for 10 years this August and have had a 10 years of wedded bliss ...that is until last week.... 

I was on my way home from a two day meeting when my mom had called me and asked me to stop by to visit on my way home. I wasn't going to stop but she insisted it was important...When I arrived at my moms house my mother and younger adult siblings along with my 15 year old sister. I was starting to really stress out because I thought for sure someone had died. My 15 year old sister told me that my husband had inappropriately touched her and she had inappropriately touched him back in January of this year. Alcohol was involved....my husband had been drinking and he had given her beer. It was my worst possible nightmare come true. The man that I trusted more than anyone and anything in this whole world had done something like this. He was the John Wayne of husbands. The details that were given haunt me and make me physically ill. My husband is 35 and my little sister is 15. Prior to my family dropping this bomb on me, they had taken my sister to a therapist to help her cope and to seek advice in telling me this news. They also had to report this to child protection because she is a minor. I am at a loss as to how to cope with all of this. 

The same evening I was given this news, I confronted my husband and he fessed up to the happenings, but used the term "I dont remember" when it came to the bigger stuff she said happened. My husband has watch this young lady grown up and I have really fostered a relationship between them because my father is absent in every way and our upbringing has been beyond dysfunctional. I really thought I was a great person for having such a wonderful husband that would be that father figure in her life. I thought it would fix her attention seeking, promiscuous behavior, partially because I remember feeling that same way at that age. Just dying for male attention and almost reeking of desperation for it. 

So here is some more nitty gritty....I was sexually abused by my father at the age of 5 and taken from my family and put in foster care for almost a year. My father denied everything and after a long legal battle my parents got me back. My mother stood by him. I have always resented my mother for not protecting me and making that decision...The rest of my childhood was unpleasant, but I will not go into that as I believe you may all understand the picture I am painting already. As I became an educated adult I found my self really trying to do the "work" to forgive her and I thought I actually did......Part of me thinks that if I stay with my husband I am no better than she is....

I went to a therapist the day after I got this news, but unfortunately I had more knowledge and maturity in my big toe as she did in her brain. I'm sorry but you should not share with your patient that you are getting divorced from your husband for no reason other than your just aren't feeling it anymore, with two kids, and take prozac and xanax on a regular basis. So needless to say I am shopping for a therapist......

This just such a messy situation and I as mad and hurt as I am by my husband I am scared for him in regards to any legal action that could be taken. I just wish I knew what to expect for him. It is so hard to have the feelings of love and hate all in the same breath.

I am angry at my mother for "everything"....

Even though I know that she is the 15 year old victim in this....I am angry because I know that she had ownership in this and from what I have been told with her actions she betrayed me as well.

My husband is getting help and going to counseling....but I just dont know if I can ever been with him again in that way. I dont doubt the love I have for him....but I just can imagine every being intimate or trusting him again. He told me he will do whatever it takes to save our marriage. I ask myself how can I give up on this man...he is a major reason I am the person I am today....he loved me when I didnt love myself...coming from such dysfunction growing up....I came to the marriage with less than nothing. Because of his unconditional love and stability I have been able to flourish as an adult and I thanked god for him everyday. He really, honestly did give me the wings to fly. Supported me through it all! You know how they always say there were signs that this type of thing was looming....I have racked my brain for days and have come up empty. I just am at a loss as to why he would do something like this and destroy everything that we had.

If anyone has been through anything like this or can even comprehend the above...I am just asking for advice or comforting words because I am at a loss right now.


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## JohnCarter (May 21, 2012)

Good for you in looking for a better therapist!
Yeah, I've seen and been through similar type of situation before, years ago. It sucks. People, like your husband, can be complex. Great some of the time, flawed and awful some of the time. 

You sound like a very intelligent, compassionate survivor. If it helps, I think you're doing all the right things, and thinking very clearly. Take your time.

People may be quick to spout off and tell you how much you should be vengeful, or how much you should be forgiving. Make your own judgments about what you can accept and what you cannot with real people you trust, not just anonymous people online. Just take it a day at a time, take care of yourself, and you will make it through. For me, my faith was important, you may find strength there.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm truely sorry for what you are going through. What a mess. 

The lack of boundaries seems to be the major problem here. Your husband giving your sister alcohol, her having some serious issues and your husband... gads he was not thinking was he?

At this point I don't know what to tell you what to do or where to go with this. It's easy to say "leave him". But your post is full of some real complexities.


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## Auzzie (Jan 23, 2012)

Firstly, I am so sorry for your lossed childhood. And secondly very sorry that you have found yourself in this situation. I would be listening to your gut instinct on this one. Alcohol isnt an excuse...and I dont believe that he ''doesnt remember''...the fact he knew he did something totally wrong and didnt tell you, tells me more than words screamed out loud. :-/


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## sas1643 (May 21, 2012)

JohnCarter said:


> Thank you John Carter! When you say that you have seen and been through similar type of situation...That gives me some comfort in knowing I am not the only one who as dealt with this. It seems unimaginable. Can I ask what the outcomes were?


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## sas1643 (May 21, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> I'm truely sorry for what you are going through. What a mess.
> 
> The lack of boundaries seems to be the major problem here. Your husband giving your sister alcohol, her having some serious issues and your husband... gads he was not thinking was he?
> 
> At this point I don't know what to tell you what to do or where to go with this. It's easy to say "leave him". But your post is full of some real complexities.



I forgot to mentioned this in my initial post, but I did leave him and am staying with my sister.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Minimum, he's got to stop the "I don't remember" lie YESTERDAY. No way you can work on it until he takes ownership of what he did. Every time he says "I don't remember" he might as well be spitting in your face.

He remembers. I can guarantee it. But you know that already, don't you?


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## sas1643 (May 21, 2012)

Auzzie said:


> Firstly, I am so sorry for your lossed childhood. And secondly very sorry that you have found yourself in this situation. I would be listening to your gut instinct on this one. Alcohol isnt an excuse...and I dont believe that he ''doesnt remember''...the fact he knew he did something totally wrong and didnt tell you, tells me more than words screamed out loud. :-/


Yes, the fact that he did this and did not tell me has said a lot to me...It almost seems that if he not want to get caught and that perhaps it would have continued... It seems so unforgivable to me right now...


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## sas1643 (May 21, 2012)

MrK said:


> Minimum, he's got to stop the "I don't remember" lie YESTERDAY. No way you can work on it until he takes ownership of what he did. Every time he says "I don't remember" he might as well be spitting in your face.
> 
> He remembers. I can guarantee it. But you know that already, don't you?


I don't for one minute believe the "I dont remember" line he keeps telling me. Saying he had too much to drink and doesnt remember...it is BS!!


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

sas1643 said:


> Even though I know that she is the 15 year old victim in this....I am angry because I know that she had ownership in this and from what I have been told with her actions she betrayed me as well.


First, I'm sorry that you are going through this. I can't imagine the hurt you must feel.

But the above statement can't be overlooked. An immature girl and alcohol and she has ownership in what happened? I hope no one ever said YOU had ownership in the abuse that suffered because you didn't and I don't think your sister does either.

Good luck and stay strong.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Note to all potential cheaters: "I don't remember" means "I'm guilty but don't have the chops to admit it".


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## Love Song (Jan 16, 2012)

sas1643 said:


> My husband is getting help and going to counseling....but I just dont know if I can ever been with him again in that way. I dont doubt the love I have for him....but I just can imagine every being intimate or trusting him again. He told me he will do whatever it takes to save our marriage. I ask myself how can I give up on this man...he is a major reason I am the person I am today....he loved me when I didnt love myself...coming from such dysfunction growing up....I came to the marriage with less than nothing. Because of his unconditional love and stability I have been able to flourish as an adult and I thanked god for him everyday. He really, honestly did give me the wings to fly. Supported me through it all! You know how they always say there were signs that this type of thing was looming....I have racked my brain for days and have come up empty. I just am at a loss as to why he would do something like this and destroy everything that we had.
> 
> If anyone has been through anything like this or can even comprehend the above...I am just asking for advice or comforting words because I am at a loss right now.



Guys with your husbands problem are incredibly manipulating. This is something I think you should understand going forward. When guys want or are attracted to minors they groom their victims and use the other relationships in their life to get close to the victim. 

It is possible that your husband used his relationship with you to get to your sister. You may not see the signs but from what you have described it seems this was well thought out and planned. It may have taken him years but that doesn't mean it wasn't planned. You really should keep that in mind when deciding what you are going to do.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

The fact that he gave her alcohol may mean that he had it planned out. Did he maneuver things so that he was alone with her or was it coincidental that they were together? 

He also knows that she seeks attention and approval from men through sex. So I am assuming he suspected that any sexual advance on his part would be reciprocated if he oiled the wheels with alcohol. 

Did he tell her not to say anything? Did he express regret when he sobered up? Did he make subsequent advances to her? 

It may have been an isolated, alcohol- fueled stupid act or it might been premeditated and something he planned to repeat. Find out before you decide what you want to do. Find out who he really is. 

As for blaming your sister, don't. Your husband is an adult, and apparently well adjusted. He had a good relationship with his wife and family and had a wife who willingly had sex with him. Why would he ply a 15 yo girl with alcohol to haver sexual contact. 

This is complicated by the fact that you say your husband has been good to you and has helped you. He has been a good friend. 

His actions with your sister, especially if premeditated is not the actions of a friend. He could have stopped at any time - the planning stage, after giving her the alcohol, after the start of the contact, but he did not. He did not think of the massive betrayal, pain and further disruption and turmoil he brought to an already troubled family. All of this for an extra orgasm for him. 

He could have confessed to you after it happened if he felt devastated. Apparently, he went on as of nothing happened. Leaving you in the dark and a vulnerable girl to twist in the wind. 

I would find out if he has been doing other things that are inappropriate. Is he looking at underage porn, going to prostitutes etc. He does not sound like a good man, he sounds predatory and self centered.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Why did you leave your home? Make him leave he was the one who violated you trust and that of your family. Why does he get the comforts of home?


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## Love Song (Jan 16, 2012)

sas1643 said:


> Even though I know that she is the 15 year old victim in this....I am angry because I know that she had ownership in this and from what I have been told with her actions she betrayed me as well.


There is a reason your sister is considered a minor. Your husband manipulated her into doing sexual acts with him. I would not blame your husbands actions on her. 

I'm sorry you have to go through this but I think blaming your sister for any of this is the wrong way to go about it.


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## Aristotle (Apr 4, 2012)

> Even though I know that she is the 15 year old victim in this....I am angry because I know that she had ownership in this and from what I have been told with her actions she betrayed me as well.


He was like a father figure to her and has been around since she was 5 years old correct? She was given a beer, which most adults can't control what they do while drunk, let alone a 15 year old. I don't see how anyone could be mad at the underaged child, other than you want to blameshift. There is one person to blame, the adult, your husband, the man that cheated on you, the man that was like a father figure to your younger sister, the one that is denying remembering anything (while your younger sister, 15 and drunk, remembers it all). 

Did your underqualifed therapist suggest you leave your husband? Maybe this has something to do with her being so underqualified as you want a therapist that isn't suggesting you leave your husband, but rather work this out and make things right. YOU CAN'T MAKE THIS RIGHT AND NEITHER COULD YOUR MOTHER.

HE MOLESTED AN UNDERAGE CHILD and CHEATED ON YOU with your sister. HE ADMITTED TO IT, CASE CLOSED. You will NOT be able to adopt a child (I HOPE), as long as you are with him. Do what you know is right, LEAVE HIM. She was only 15 and he knew her since she was 5!?!?!?!?!?!?!? When did this take place, when she was 13, 14, 15? 

If you are shopping for a therapist that will have sympathy for your husband, good luck. A child molester/cheater is at the bottom of the food chain.

Sorry to hear this happened to you but I think you know what's right and what's excuses. Leave him.


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## sas1643 (May 21, 2012)

Let me be clear...I am not blaming my minor sister...she is the victim and my husband is the adult and should have known better....


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Sas: So sorry to hear what you're going through and will fastly keep you and your family in my prayers.

Obviously, you haven't exactly been dealt the best hand of cards in your life, and for that my heart goes out to you. Now given that your younger sister may have been obviously craving some semblence of male attention, or your husband became infatuated with her development as a young woman makes absolutely no difference. He should richly consider himself fortunate that he wasn't summarily hand-cuffed and led away! And it doesn't matter if she led him on, blames the alcohol, or whatever; under the overwhelming majority of statuatory rape laws, neither of those scenarios represents a viable legal defense. 

I applaud you for taking the bull by the horns and immediately getting yourself into counseling. Your husband should do the same. But until such time that he comes to exercise a little "ownership" for what he has done, nothing is going to change. "I don't remember" is largely a cop-out phrase that he derives some form of clandestine protection from. And no progress will be made as long as he's using it to pacify himself and/or those other friends/relatives that are just that shallow to believe his story, his selective fleeting memory, or a lack of a story thereof. And if he doesn't get himself into counseling right away, given time, the only counselor that he'll have access to will be a legal one. And no one really wants to see that happen!

For the time being, if the state hasn't already instituted a no-contact clause between your husband and your sister, then you should.

If you and your husband are going to salvage your relationship, then you both need to be in IC as well as MC, and probably should get some joint spiritual help from your pastor. Otherwise, his fast denials and trying to sweep all of this under the rug is nothingmore than boarding a fast moving freight train heading straight to Armegeddon. In it's absence, you may have no other real option available to you but to leave him!

Welcome to TAM! Along with my other esteemed colleagues, I hate to see you here, but you've come to the right place. I truly feel for you and your plight, and pray for an equitable result for you in ultimately getting this problem of yours resolved!


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Love Song said:


> There is a reason your sister is considered a minor. Your husband manipulated her into doing sexual acts with him. I would not blame your husbands actions on her.


Here are the issues that bother me the most:

giving her the beer.

And you know why I say that? This more than anything else shows that he set out to do this very evil thing, that hurt a LOT of people, not just you and your sister, consciously and deliberately.


I would not stand by him. What happened to you? No one stood by you, the way you say you wanted them and needed them to. Do the right thing now and stand by your sister.


His issues are so profound and serious they can only be overcome with huge amounts of remorse, lots of excellent counseling for HIM, and time to see if he ever does it again.

When you break this many boundaries:
--inappropriate sexual activity with a teenager
--the teenager is your sister-in-law
--you ply her with alcohol in advance to make her more compliant
--your wife was abused as a child

then it is time to pack your bags and kick this profoundly selfish man, who has issues that may prove to be incurable and insurmountable, to the curb.

Stand by your sister. Show your mom where loyalties should lie on the horrible issue of sexual abuse.


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## sas1643 (May 21, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> Here are the issues that bother me the most:
> 
> giving her the beer.
> 
> ...


You seems to have great clarity and you are exactly right in your advice! Thank you! Thank You!!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Chris Taylor said:


> First, I'm sorry that you are going through this. I can't imagine the hurt you must feel.
> 
> But the above statement can't be overlooked. An immature girl and alcohol and she has ownership in what happened? I hope no one ever said YOU had ownership in the abuse that suffered because you didn't and I don't think your sister does either.
> 
> Good luck and stay strong.


I'm going to take the opposite side on this. I know 15 year old girls. I know messed up 15 year old girls. And I'm here to tell you that the most common thing they think to do is to come on to older men. 

No offense, but the first thing I thought of is that your sister initiated the whole thing and he never saw it coming.

And now she gets to play the victim and get the Holy Grail of attention.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

iheartlife said:


> Here are the issues that bother me the most:
> 
> giving her the beer.
> 
> And you know why I say that? This more than anything else shows that he set out to do this very evil thing


And the first thing I thought of when I read that part was, she WANTED the beer, and she knew what to do, how to talk, what to say, to get him to give it to her.

I'm not saying your husband is blameless. I'm just saying let's keep in mind this is a troubled teenage girl who you admit looks for attention, and what better target?


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

turnera said:


> I'm going to take the opposite side on this. I know 15 year old girls. I know messed up 15 year old girls. And I'm here to tell you that the most common thing they think to do is to come on to older men.
> 
> No offense, but the first thing I thought of is that your sister initiated the whole thing and he never saw it coming.
> 
> And now she gets to play the victim and get the Holy Grail of attention.


Remember "One Flew Over the Cuckoo Nest"?
"Judge, she was 15(?) going on 35, if you know what I mean".
I was sooo glad to find out that my nephew who is a musician, started dating a gal who is a little older than he is.
The kiddies showing up at those concerts have their own ideas about behavior around older guys, especially if the guy is good looking.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

A 15 year old girl is far more conscious of their actions than the law wants us to believe.

Your husband is to blame here, but your sister definitely played her part *consciously*. 

I don't think you need to kick your husband to the curb. I think you should simply let him make the right decisions. Those decisions can be: showing genuine remorse, seeking professional help, and convincing you that such things are highly unlikely to ever happen again.

You said he loved you when you didn't love yourself. Well, he may end up hating himself for what he has done. Just know that he will be rightfully expecting some level of support from you because you're his wife.

I strongly believe if the victim here was not your sister, but some stranger, your situation would've been very different. 

Don't forget the reality about 15 year old girls either. Society wants to believe they're children. They're not.


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

How awful for you - here's my take on this:

I would be surprised if this has only happened once
Yes 15 year old girls can 'come on' to men - that doesn't mean they have the emotional maturity to understand the consequences of what they are doing and to suggest that an adult man can be manipulated into behaving inappropriately so easily by a child is laughable. 'He never saw it coming' - yeah, poor guy!! He's known her since she was 5 years old!!!
you are adopting children who are vulnerable and likely to have suffered abuse into a house where they would be living with a sexual predator - how could you ever trust him with them?
If you stayed with him then you would be validating his behaviour and yes, being like you mother I'm afraid
Kick him out 

x


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

turnera said:


> And the first thing I thought of when I read that part was, she WANTED the beer, and she knew what to do, how to talk, what to say, to get him to give it to her.


Yes, she wanted the BEER. But being 15, she got in way over her head.

This is the difference between adults and children.

If adults don't protect children--from themselves--who will?

This was his sister-in-law, and his wife has a history of abuse in childhood. You have to look at the global picture. He was thinking about no one except for himself.

I've never been abused. But if I where the thread-starter, and had to endure PTSD from childhood abuse every time I went to a family function wtih my husband and my sister, I think I'd go insane.

This is just too much to ask someone to forgive.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

In your original post you said:

*I thought it would fix her attention seeking, promiscuous behavior, partially because I remember feeling that same way at that age. Just dying for male attention and almost reeking of desperation for it. *

So she has a history of being sexually promiscuous? Does she also have a history of drinking etc?

I'm not letting your husband off here - he should have known her and made very different choices. 

BUT

I think your sister needs to held accountable as well. It sounds like she's had beer before, and she has experience sexually as well. So she knew what was going on and was a participant.

So instead of a predator-victim scenario, I see this as two people who both made really really bad choices. Your husband as a man should have known not to go there.

If your sister is into major attention seeking behavior and has a history of being promiscuous, I do have to question is she is as devastated as your post says, or if she is using the conselling, the family attention, etc. to fuel her need for attention, and isn't also herself caught up in the frenzy of it all.

Again - NOT LETTING YOUR HUSBAND OFF THE HOOK.

Just - also holding your sister accountable more than she is being held accountable.


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## Aristotle (Apr 4, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> In your original post you said:
> 
> *I thought it would fix her attention seeking, promiscuous behavior, partially because I remember feeling that same way at that age. Just dying for male attention and almost reeking of desperation for it. *
> 
> ...


I remember this original post. I remembered because it was so cryptic how she was talking like she knew the OW so well. This makes a little more sense now.

Even if your sister was a 15 year old hooker, your husband illegally gave her beer, has known her since she was 5, molested her, pretends he doesn't remember half of what he did because he was too drunk, cheated on you, knew you were molested, and ignored everything other than his own selfish needs.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Actually, now that you mention it, while sexual promiscuity and interest in all things sexual is not uncommon in teenagers, in a family with history of abuse, is there any chance this is a sign that she experienced abuse when she was younger as well.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What's bad about the husband is that he did it months ago and never mentioned it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

iheartlife said:


> Actually, now that you mention it, while sexual promiscuity and interest in all things sexual is not uncommon in teenagers, in a family with history of abuse, is there any chance this is a sign that she experienced abuse when she was younger as well.


 I was wondering that, too.


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## Love Song (Jan 16, 2012)

turnera said:


> I'm going to take the opposite side on this. I know 15 year old girls. I know messed up 15 year old girls. And I'm here to tell you that the most common thing they think to do is to come on to older men.
> 
> No offense, but the first thing I thought of is that your sister initiated the whole thing and he never saw it coming.
> 
> And now she gets to play the victim and get the Holy Grail of attention.



This made me so sad reading it. It doesn't matter what she is capable of as a 15 year old. The point is that as an adult HE SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN IN THIS SITUATION!!!!

That you would blame a child truly saddens me. As if she should be held accountable for a grown man's actions. Our government has laws to protect children for a reason. It's wrong!!! 

I guess if she was 25 you would blame her for him cheating?? Our nation has a HORRIBLE HORRIBLE HABIT of blaming the victim and it needs to stop!!!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

*shrug*

You're welcome to your opinion. 

I've just spent the last 10 years watching half a dozen girls her age do this exact thing, so...


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## Love Song (Jan 16, 2012)

My husband would be disgusted with some of the comments on this thread. As if a man has no control over himself to be so easily manipulated by a 15 year old girl. :wtf:

This MAN was supposed to be a surrogate father figure. Adults are SUPPOSED to protect children not take advantage of their immaturity.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Do you ever plan to have a 15 year old girl living with you again at any point in the future? Adopted kids? Your kids? Would you trust him around them? Answer that question for yourself and go from there.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

As I had said earlier, your H has no excuse whatsoever for any of his actions, albeit that it was totally her fault, his fault, or a combination thereof. Bottom line is that he remains culpable.

To that end, the only real decision to be made is solely yours: (1)Whether to fastly end this marriage and move on, or (2) Try to salvage this marriage despite all of the numerous crevices that you will have to trevass in order to keep this relationship afloat. IC will help you in that endeavor.

But if the decision were mine alone and given the nature of the circumstances, I'd highly recommend cutting your loses!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Agreed. Not only did he do it, but he hid it, and then he tried to blameshift. Not great qualities. I know that he's been a great husband to you, but you have to look at the character issue.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

No excuses for the husband. he's an adult and he broke the law BADLY. And did a lot of other things badly.

Your sister also needs some help though. Don't blame her, but help her.


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## yinyangfan (Nov 9, 2011)

First off all, I just want to say that I am so incredibly sorry that you are faced with this awful situation. 

Forgive me if I missed this, but are your adoptions from foster care final? Bear with me, there is a reason I am asking. I was a foster mom for 8 years before we turned to international adoption. 

Don't live together with this man until you know how the Child Protective Services report is going to play out. It is highly likely that they will investigate you as well, because you adopted kids with your husband and as they are going to see it, he has demonstrated to them that he poses a risk to children. And that could get quite ugly. 

While you live separately, find a therapist you trust (I see you are working on this!) and take really good care of yourself. Your husband has to deal with this problem on his own. There is no excuse for what he did. 

Again, I am so sorry you are dealing with this.


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

Love Song said:


> My husband would be disgusted with some of the comments on this thread. As if a man has no control over himself to be so easily manipulated by a 15 year old girl. :wtf:
> 
> This MAN was supposed to be a surrogate father figure. Adults are SUPPOSED to protect children not take advantage of their immaturity.


I strongly agree with this.........and your key words here that you have clearly pointed out are "man" and "supposed". But have you read the news in the last decade? Sexual deviants are very common these days and yes, it's just awful and these men should be hung by their [email protected], as there's no "cure" for them. Prison time only makes them worse.

Yes men are supposed to protect children, but more than you know are out there hurting them every day and night.


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

Dollystanford said:


> I would be surprised if this has only happened once
> 
> 
> you are adopting children who are vulnerable and likely to have suffered abuse into a house where they would be living with a sexual predator - how could you ever trust him with them?
> ...


I whole-heartedly agree with this. Kick him out..........after calling the cops! 

I'm so sorry you're going through this, but with the knowlege that you have of your husband, it's part your responsibility to break this evil cycle of abuse and put him away. Stand by your family. Sorry to say, but your husband is scum!


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

turnera said:


> *shrug*
> 
> You're welcome to your opinion.
> 
> I've just spent the last 10 years watching half a dozen girls her age do this exact thing, so...


I don't think anyone's denying that they do it, but the focus should be on his behaviour not hers, due to the fact that he's, you know, 35 years old???

this isn't some random girl that chatted him up and could have been any age from 16 - 21

he KNEW her age and that she was a minor, he KNEW she was his wife's sister!

nothing more to be said really, unless we really are saying that men just can't control themselves. Perhaps we should all slap on chastity belts to protect the poor dears from themselves


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

It's been done...


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

Love Song said:


> This made me so sad reading it. It doesn't matter what she is capable of as a 15 year old. The point is that as an adult HE SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN IN THIS SITUATION!!!!
> 
> That you would blame a child truly saddens me. As if she should be held accountable for a grown man's actions. Our government has laws to protect children for a reason. It's wrong!!!
> 
> I guess if she was 25 you would blame her for him cheating?? Our nation has a HORRIBLE HORRIBLE HABIT of blaming the victim and it needs to stop!!!


I am a survivor of child sexual assault. I blame both of them. She knew what she was doing, he knew what he was doing. 

I, at that age, knew what I was doing too. I had 7 or so partners by that age. Sad, sick but true. 15 is mentally aware of what they are doing but not emotionally aware of the consequences and repercussions of what they are doing.

Promiscuity is the first sign of young child sexual abuse...the first emotional\psychological symptom.


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## River1977 (Oct 25, 2010)

sas1643 said:


> The same evening I was given this news, I confronted my husband and he fessed up to the happenings, but used the term "I dont remember" when it came to the bigger stuff she said happened.


He does so remember. He is lying because he hasn't the balls to own up to his actions.



sas1643 said:


> I remember feeling that same way at that age. Just dying for male attention and almost reeking of desperation for it........Even though I know that she is the 15 year old victim in this....I am angry because I know that she had ownership in this and from what I have been told with her actions she betrayed me as well.


Sex offenses are the only crimes where the victim gets blamed. You are blaming your sister. That is outrageous. While you're at being so ridiculous, start blaming yourself for what your father did to you. Do you now see the juxtaposition of the two situations? Your sister was taken advantage of just like you were and is no more to blame than you were then or now. Your father took advantage of a defenseless little girl. Your husband took advantage of a defenseless girl who was desperate for attention......and he used alcohol to make sure he was able to do it.



sas1643 said:


> I have always resented my mother for not protecting me and making that decision...The rest of my childhood was unpleasant, but I will not go into that as I believe you may all understand the picture I am painting already. As I became an educated adult I found my self really trying to do the "work" to forgive her and I thought I actually did......Part of me thinks that if I stay with my husband I am no better than she is.


And you are correct. You are no better than your mother if you stay with this man.



sas1643 said:


> This just such a messy situation and I as mad and hurt as I am by my husband I am scared for him in regards to any legal action that could be taken. I just wish I knew what to expect for him. It is so hard to have the feelings of love and hate all in the same breath.


You are feeling sorry for the offender in this situation. He deserves to be prosecuted, but you don't want to be. He should have to pay for his crime, but you don't want him to have to pay. Again, you are being ridiculous. You actually want him to get away with doing this just like your father got away with it.



sas1643 said:


> I am angry at my mother for "everything"....


I suppose you need someone to blame since you refuse to accept your husband is the only one to blame for his actions. You can continue blaming your sister. You can continue blaming your mother. Go ahead and blame me too since I am someone who is not your husband. You are married to a pedophile and you need to accept that. Your mother did not accept that. Do you see the resemblance?



sas1643 said:


> My husband is getting help and going to counseling........He told me he will do whatever it takes to save our marriage.


That is what your father told your mother. Your husband will say the same thing again when he molests the child(ren) you are adopting. Poor kid(s). It is awful, complete awful to bring them into your home with this man.



sas1643 said:


> I ask myself how can I give up on this man...he is a major reason I am the person I am today....he loved me when I didnt love myself...coming from such dysfunction growing up....I came to the marriage with less than nothing. Because of his unconditional love and stability I have been able to flourish as an adult and I thanked god for him everyday. He really, honestly did give me the wings to fly. Supported me through it all! You know how they always say there were signs that this type of thing was looming....I have racked my brain for days and have come up empty. I just am at a loss as to why he would do something like this and destroy everything that we had.


He did it because he is sick and thought he could get away with hit. He thought the alcohol he gave her would make her his easy target and thought it would make her forget. Stop feeling sorry for yourself. You are not the victim here. Stop feeling sorry for your husband. He is a child molester just like your father was. Stop looking for everyone else to blame but him.


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## River1977 (Oct 25, 2010)

turnera said:


> I'm going to take the opposite side on this. I know 15 year old girls. I know messed up 15 year old girls. And I'm here to tell you that the most common thing they think to do is to come on to older men.
> 
> No offense, but the first thing I thought of is that your sister initiated the whole thing and he never saw it coming.
> 
> And now she gets to play the victim and get the Holy Grail of attention.


That is so sick. That is so sick I wonder what is wrong with the person who stated such at thing and those who also agreed. The husband in this scenario is not the only one who needs help. It's too bad sex offenses is the only crime where the victims are blamed. This man is an adult. That girl could have stood naked and begged him. He was supposed to be adult enough and control himself enough to make her put her clothes back on and send her home. 

By this sad and nonsensical logic, I know 5 year old girls. I know how much they like daddy's attention. I know they will run through the house in their underwear and butt naked and think nothing of it. I know daddy will give them baths. I know they like to giggle and play a lot........I know they are innocent little girls who want to be loved by their father.

The victims of sex crimes are not to be blamed no matter the circumstances. To blame the OP's sister is just saying the adult male is not expected to control himself, and it's okay for him not to have any kind of sense of decency. I guess it's okay to rape a woman just because of how she was dressed.

Rape, molestation, and pedophilia are never okay, no matter what.


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

River1977 said:


> That is so sick. That is so sick I wonder what is wrong with the person who stated such at thing and those who also agreed. The husband in this scenario is not the only one who needs help. It's too bad sex offenses is the only crime where the victims are blamed. This man is an adult. That girl could have stood naked and begged him. He was supposed to be adult enough and control himself enough to make her put her clothes back on and send her home.
> 
> By this sad and nonsensical logic, I know 5 year old girls. I know how much they like daddy's attention. I know they will run through the house in their underwear and butt naked and think nothing of it. I know daddy will give them baths. I know they like to giggle and play a lot........I know they are innocent little girls who want to be loved by their father.
> 
> ...


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

River1977 said:


> The victims of sex crimes are not to be blamed no matter the circumstances. To blame the OP's sister is just saying the adult male is not expected to control himself


I guess you missed all the posts where I also blamed the husband...


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## River1977 (Oct 25, 2010)

turnera said:


> I guess you missed all the posts where I also blamed the husband...


I don't care about anyone wanting acknowledgment for being misleading, misguided, and out and out insanely WRONG just because they "also" said something that was right. It made no sense to blame the victim, no matter her age and no matter how enticing a 15 year old can be.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

We'll have to agree to disagree. I've seen more than my share of 15 year old girls trying to trap an older man into giving her what she wants.


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## 381917 (Dec 15, 2011)

I'm so sorry. Your husband is a sick pervert. He will do things like this again. He got your 15 year old sister drunk and raped her. Bottom line. It's illegal to get an adult date drunk to have sex with them while they are incapacitated. He did it to a 15 year old who he has known since she was a preschooler. He is a sexual predator.


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## 381917 (Dec 15, 2011)

turnera said:


> I'm going to take the opposite side on this. I know 15 year old girls. I know messed up 15 year old girls. And I'm here to tell you that the most common thing they think to do is to come on to older men.
> 
> No offense, but the first thing I thought of is that your sister initiated the whole thing and he never saw it coming.
> 
> And now she gets to play the victim and get the Holy Grail of attention.


None of that really matters though. Any man who could be seduced by a minor that he has been a father figure to since she was in kindergarten has some very serious issues and needs to be kept away from children. As someone else said, this isn't a case of a girl looking/dressing/acting older than she is and the man not knowing her age.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

turnera said:


> We'll have to agree to disagree. I've seen more than my share of 15 year old girls trying to trap an older man into giving her what she wants.


I agree, they do. Yet a grown man that gives into a 15 year old girl is weak minded and absolutely guilty. It's the adult that has the responsibility to stop before it goes too far. No?


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

I'm so sorry you are going through a situation like this. I have no advice as I have never experienced anything like this, but you may need to really re-consider the man you are married to 

Good luck and find a good support system as I'm sure this is quite a difficult emotional time for you right now.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

@ River...

I don't recall anyone defending the husband. 

What a few of us did point out, however, is that the girl is most likely not the innocent victim you desperately want her to be. Maybe at 5, but not at 15. 

Feel free to stick your head in the sand, but the awful truth is that there are many who've been sexually abused who go on to mistreat, manipulate and use others. I personally don't believe this 15 year old girl was born promiscuous.

The risk of victims becoming perpetrators is high. 

So your statement "_the victims of sex crimes are not to be blamed no matter the circumstance"_ conflicts with your next statement that _"rape, molestation, and pedophilia are never okay, no matter what_". These are often not separate people - they're most likely one in the same.

This doesn't _always_ occur to an extreme, and it may be expressed in different ways - I haven't raped or molested. But my sexual boundaries are very, very weak. I've been masturbating and having group rape fantasies since I was in kindergarten, and most of what gets me off isn't even appropriate for the average porn site.

Sick? Yes. Welcome to the mind of a 'victim'. 

And I consider what happened to me to be fairly mild in comparison to others, and my sexual 'misconduct' stays within my age range with consenting partners. But you can only imagine what someone else might be capable of doing if the abuse was more severe.

And what's wrong with me (by agreeing to the post that offended you) is that I've lived it. I was molested, and I agreed with turnera's statement because I became a seductress at a very young age. Not so much with older men, but with men in general. Although I work very hard at being 'normal', my view of sex has been warped. And in order to keep myself in line, I've lived a large portion of my life in isolation.

With all due respect, if you've never dealt in any way with sexual abuse, then you really have no idea the damage that's done.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Btw folks, the OP said inappropriate touching went on, NOT rape. This is escalating into something beyond the nasty thing it already is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

anchorwatch said:


> I agree, they do. Yet a grown man that gives into a 15 year old girl is weak minded and absolutely guilty. It's the adult that has the responsibility to stop before it goes too far. No?


 Of course, which is why I stated she needs to consider whether to stay married to him. But if everyone tries to pretend that she's this innocent victim, given her past behavior, and not address it with her, it will only progress. And THAT is not responsible parenting or looking after one's siblings/family member.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

This thread is beginning to veer away from the questions raised by the OP, into accusations among each other. Please remain respectful so that this thread will not be locked.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

Even if the 15 year old lay down naked in front of him, there is no excuse, not one, for him not shutting her down and walking away. I don't care whether she initiated and planned the whole thing, which i highly doubt. She is 15. Her brain hasnt developed fully yet, which is why she can't legally give consent in a situation where there is such a power imbalance.

And anyway, this is his wife's sister. No matter how old she was, it would be an unforgivable betrayal. 

Another thing, if you are thinking of adopting from the foster system, lots of those children have been sexually abused and will show sexually precocious and inappropriately seductive behaviour. Your husband has shown he can't be trusted, so you need to abandon that plan immediately. 

Oh and to those saying that abuse victims are likely to become perpetrators of abuse; that has been shown to be a false link and has caused enormous unnecessary pain to abuse victims.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

What's the age of consent where the OP is at?


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## rider (Jun 22, 2009)

Aristotle said:


> He was like a father figure to her and has been around since she was 5 years old correct? She was given a beer, which most adults can't control what they do while drunk, let alone a 15 year old. I don't see how anyone could be mad at the underaged child, other than you want to blameshift. There is one person to blame, the adult, your husband, the man that cheated on you, the man that was like a father figure to your younger sister, the one that is denying remembering anything (while your younger sister, 15 and drunk, remembers it all).
> 
> Did your underqualifed therapist suggest you leave your husband? Maybe this has something to do with her being so underqualified as you want a therapist that isn't suggesting you leave your husband, but rather work this out and make things right. YOU CAN'T MAKE THIS RIGHT AND NEITHER COULD YOUR MOTHER.
> 
> ...


Damn...

So a 15 year old has zero decision making power when drunk?

What the guy did was horrific, but if she took a beer from the guy, well they teach you about these things in school...

In a country like Denmark this would only be cheating, not molestation. I didnt hear anywhere in this thread that he forced himself on her.

She is likely regretting her decision and now wants attention. Typical teenage behavior from either sex.

Life sucks, move on, learn from it.


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

Chris Taylor said:


> First, I'm sorry that you are going through this. I can't imagine the hurt you must feel.
> 
> But the above statement can't be overlooked. *An immature girl and alcohol and she has ownership in what happened? I hope no one ever said YOU had ownership in the abuse that suffered because you didn't and I don't think your sister does either.*
> 
> Good luck and stay strong.


:iagree::iagree: I have to say that I agree with the bolded part. Your sister is an innocent victim. I don't know how you can stay with a man who is sexually abusive either, but we all have our own tolerance levels.


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## tm84 (Jul 24, 2011)

Both parties played a part in this, but the husband shoulders the bulk of the blame for this situation. He had no business taking advantage of the sister's vulnerability, no matter how enticing it might have been. He knew what he was doing, found his opportunity and took it. He remembers everything and is too cowardly to step up and deal with the consequences. 

Both of them need help, but I don't think that the OP owes him any marital allegieance at this point. He should have been the one to move out and to do everything in his power to make amends. I realize that he may have helped the OP through some rough times, but this is unforgivable behavior. Way too many boundaaries have been crossed and on top of that, he doesn't want to own his part in the situation. It's too easy to blame the 15 year old for his actions. He had plenty of time to prevent this from happening, but he enabled it and did not do the responsible thing to stop or avoid the situation altogether. 

I have worked in one place for a long time and have seen co-worker's and customer's kids grow up. Yes, many of them into beautiful young women, but in no way would I think that it would have been ok to try and to seduce them. The husband knew what he was doing from the start. The sister knew what she was doing, also, but HE was supposed to be the mature party and what did he do? Tried to hide everything.

Well, he got what he wanted, and she got her attention, all at what cost?

To the OP: I'm so very sorry that you are living through what must be hell for you right now. I only hope that you are able to find the help that you need to eventually be able to peice your life back together and move on.


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## Love Song (Jan 16, 2012)

turnera said:


> We'll have to agree to disagree. I've seen more than my share of 15 year old girls trying to trap an older man into giving her what she wants.


I am not trying to be mean in saying this. But you seem to not comprehend what it means to be an adult. Being an adult means that you are held completely responsible for your actions. You keep excusing his actions. 

You may know 15 year old girls but I understand 15 year old girls too. I also understand child predators. A responsible adult would have explained to her how her actions were wrong. *NOT* taken advantage of her immaturity. Like someone else has said it doesn't matter if she appeared to him nude. He being the only adult in the situation is responsible for the outcome. 

Since you don't understand the meaning of an adult I will explain to you what should have happened. 

*IF* she asked for the beer...
he should have explained to her why it isn't ok for her to drink alcohol as she is a minor
*IF* she came on to him...
he should have asked someone else to come into the room and explained to her why her actions were not ok and *WOULD NEVER* be tolerated

None of these things happened. Instead he molested her and that is not ok.


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## Illbehisfoolagain (May 7, 2012)

It is perfectly normal for a young girls to have a crushes on an older, influential men in their lives. Its completely all too common, but way NOT NORMAL for the older male to take advantage of that crush. Yes, 15 year old girls have tons of hormones raging through them, they are just starting to come into their sexuality and will try behaviors and actions out on the men who are around them, but again, its totally NOT OK for the adult men to take part in it. 

Its GROSS for adult men to want to be with young teen girls. Period, plain and simple. Its gross. I am in my early 30s, it would ****ing disgust me to even try to think about being with a teenage boy, even an 18 year old sounds gross in my mind.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Aside from gross it's statutory rape in my state.


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## Illbehisfoolagain (May 7, 2012)

My above post was a bit of a knee jerk response.

OP I have been in a similar situation to you, however he was not my husband, and we had not been together that long. This happened nearly two decades ago. I was 20, he 22, my little sister 14, at least, I as far as I know thats when it started. He was the son of a long time family friend. Him and I had been together about 1.5 years at the time. 

Similar to you, I had encouraged him to be nice to her and include her, because prior to me saying so, he didn't really pay any attention to her. I feel like I carry some responsibility for the whole thing  I don't really remember how it went, but at some point they had been hanging out together without me, and I had found a blatantly placed 'journal' of my sisters, totally not written in a journal but on a notebook left in plane sight. Though no names were named, but there were writings about loving hands on her, how good it made her feel, and drafts of love letters. Like I said, I cant remember why, but I was feeling weird about things, so after finding this stuff I called him, and low and behold, my sister was there! It was a school day, during school hours, NO reason why she should have been there! He didn't have a car at the time, and didn't live all that close to her school, so she clearly got her self there on her own accord. I freaked out. They explained it all away, later he assured me this and that, we fought and it was just so weird! The weirdest thing is that I could never been bring myself to confront my little sister about it (even to this day). She had completely hardened her self off to me and there was just such a huge gap between us. Looking back, I am sure it was him that slowly dug the cavern between, so slow though that I couldn't even notice. I know you wonder why I didn't go to my parents, they were working out of state at the time. I thought I could handle things, however I don't think things would have gone any differently had they been here, I could be totally wrong though. 

Things got really weird and bad between us. He would start fights all the time when my sister was around, he got really pathological and we broke up soon afterwords. My sister kept hanging out with him, she was 16 now and had her license and her own car and seemed to hate my guts for what I didn't know. The parents were still out of state and I was working, and trying to deal with just breaking up and moving on, and just sort of washed my hands of the whole thing. I found out years later, through the grape vine (because its never been talked about between us) that they were together over a decade, which means it ended not all that long ago. He moved across the country to live with his dad, and is now incarcerated for a very, very long time on some serious charges (not sex charges). She absolutely hates to travel, and will not ride in a plane. As soon as he moved away, my sister started reaching out to me a little, and we are slowly, slowly repairing our relationship. 

I guess I kind of lie when I say I washed my hands of it. I felt really betrayed by my sister, because even though I would reach out to her to just be friends and have some sort of connection between us, she would get angry and shut me down. She would go hang out with him instead of doing anything with me. We barely talked, we didn't hug anymore (we were a really huggy family). I had pegged him as a total dirtbag and told everyone I knew so, including my family. My mom hated him too, but tried to not be mean about him in front of her. When my sister moved out for college (as a 17 year old I should add) he was ALWAYS at her house. Her whole time in college, I visited her once, because when I showed up, him and a handful of his lowlife friends were there doing their typical low life stuff. My mom and dad would always say "He is always there when we visit." I felt very betrayed. SHe picked him over me. Had he not caught nearly a life sentence, I think she would have been happy rarely talking to me, and putting her whole life into him, just as she had for so long. 

Even though it sounds like it doesn't, I fully blame him, he was 8 years older, she was just a youngen. I have just basically written him off of existence. I can NOT waste any more energy on him, he basically does not exist in my world anymore, and its all about trying to repair things with my sister. However, at this point I would still never, if I somehow ever managed to find a good man, I would have a real hard time trusting the two of them spending too much time together.


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## MominMayberry (Mar 27, 2012)

turnera said:


> I'm going to take the opposite side on this. I know 15 year old girls. I know messed up 15 year old girls. And I'm here to tell you that the most common thing they think to do is to come on to older men.
> 
> No offense, but the first thing I thought of is that your sister initiated the whole thing and he never saw it coming.
> 
> And now she gets to play the victim and get the Holy Grail of attention.


She is 15 and he is 20 years older. He likes girls. Its rape. Jesus Christ. God almighty what a bunch of ****s on this forum.


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

Love Song said:


> There is a reason your sister is considered a minor. Your husband manipulated her into doing sexual acts with him. I would not blame your husbands actions on her.
> 
> I'm sorry you have to go through this but I think blaming your sister for any of this is the wrong way to go about it.


:iagree:

TS you need to divorce your husband there is no going back he is a piece of work to do this and than deny it or say "i dont remember" you will have more pain if you stay. 

Best of luck


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

MominMayberry said:


> He likes girls.


Aside from this one horrific incident, show me where the OP gives you this information.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

It's interesting that he married his wife when she was 19yrs old and I would imagine dated her beforehand. She said that she was troubled and he helped her. Her sister is 15 and troubled. Maybe he is turned on by troubled teenaged girls. 

I hope no adoption agency lets them adopt girls. If he would do that to a sister that was like a daughter then an adopted girl will do no better. 

However, for the good of society they should adopt troubled girls at about the age of 10 and wait for them to grow into sexually promiscuous teens. 

All he has to do is make himself available to reap the rewards of their sexual rapaciousness. Who can blame him, the girls are wicked and he is trapped by them. 

He and his wife can adopt a crop of witches every few years and provide a heavenly existence for him and the girls? 

They get to work out their pathology on a willing subject not an innocent man. In that scenario, he is the hero not a villan.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

If this gets turned over to the authorities (it may already have, I may have missed that) and if he is found guilty of statutory rape, he will not be allowed to adopt. Period.

OP, you have to decide if it's worth staying with him knowing that in all likelihood that you will not be allowed to adopt. Ever. I know of a couple who are in a similar situation. The man had a consensual relationship with a 17 year old girl when he was 21. The girls parents turned it over to CPS. He was found guilty of statutory rape and served a year in prison. He later married a wonderful woman. It was only then that she found out that they would NEVER be allowed to adopt. They have elected to remain married. 

You need to consider this possibility.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Update?


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## cory275 (Aug 11, 2011)

i can only suggest what i would do in this situation. as much as i LOVE my husband... there is NO WAY i could deal with cheating of any kind. 

so not only is your hubs cheating.. he's cheating with a family member. a family member who is 15. this little girl is supposed to be swooning over justin beeber posters.. not being fingered by her brother in law. ew!

i couldnt deal with it. i was 15 once... and i KNOW that 15 year old girl knew EXACTLY what was going on... and so did he. 

i would take a SERIOUS vacation from my family. maybe even a permanent one. do you have a bucket list? now may not be a bad time to start living that. 

maybe because i'm not really close with my family members, but i'd probably move to a different country. if that's not possible with visa stuff... i'd move to a wayyyy different city. just start over. 

even if you are brave enough to face the issues... with your background i'd say you owe it to yourself not to have to live a ***kked up life anymore. 

best of luck, sista


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

15 will get you 20.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

I have mixed emotions about this. 

He cheated. There is no excuse for that. He needs to own up to that. Maybe his wife will never be able to forgive him. Maybe he is truly remorseful and they may be able to make it.

The difficult part is the 15 year old. I have seen 15 year olds that truly look and act like 21 year olds. They walk into bars and don't get ID'd. They are mature beyond their years. I know that when I was 15, I was probably the equivalent of being 12. No hair on my armpits, crotch, etc. I had friends with full beards and were fully grown at 15. To me, physical maturity and mental maturity are as important as her actual chronological age.

So to me it depends. Was this 15 year old equivalent to a 18 year old or was she equivalent to a 12 year old? If she was 10, it would be clear that her husband is a child molester. If she was equivalent to an 18 year old, then I see him as a cheater and not a child molester.

At best, the OPs husband is a cheater. At worst, he is also a child molester. Without knowing these people, it is difficult to tell.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

SadSamIAm said:


> I have mixed emotions about this.
> 
> He cheated. There is no excuse for that. He needs to own up to that. Maybe his wife will never be able to forgive him. Maybe he is truly remorseful and they may be able to make it.
> 
> ...



The unfortunate thing for him is that the many statuatory rape codes of the various states are never written to take any extenuating circumstances into consideration.


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## Love Song (Jan 16, 2012)

SadSamIAm said:


> I have mixed emotions about this.
> 
> He cheated. There is no excuse for that. He needs to own up to that. Maybe his wife will never be able to forgive him. Maybe he is truly remorseful and they may be able to make it.
> 
> ...


I'm not going to go into the it's wrong regardless because she is a minor bit because I've already said it. 

But you think a 15 year old who has attention seeking issues and is promiscuous AND told her family she was touched inappropriately by the husband is mentally mature enough? 

I'm not even going to go there.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

She's mature enough to know she'll get more attention by being the victim than the aggressor.


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## 381917 (Dec 15, 2011)

SadSamIAm said:


> I have mixed emotions about this.
> 
> He cheated. There is no excuse for that. He needs to own up to that. Maybe his wife will never be able to forgive him. Maybe he is truly remorseful and they may be able to make it.
> 
> ...


He knew her age. How old she looks would matter if he didn't. But he did. So he's a sexual predator whether she looks 10 or 30.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Or he's like millions of other men who, once they get turned on, let their other brain do the thinking.


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## Love Song (Jan 16, 2012)

turnera said:


> She's mature enough to know she'll get more attention by being the victim than the aggressor.


Seriously how old are you?


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## Love Song (Jan 16, 2012)

381917 said:


> He knew her age. How old she looks would matter if he didn't. But he did. So he's a sexual predator whether she looks 10 or 30.


THIS :iagree::iagree:


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

I'm sorry about your situation. It sounds really devastating and you must be going through a lot of pain. I advise that you make sure you have an objective space in which you can contend with these issues; give yourself some space from your family and your husband while you do so. They will all need space to sort through their feelings, too. Please safeguard the situation so that your husband does not have any more contact with your family because he has demonstrated that he cannot be trusted around them. He really needs counseling.

Look for a therapist you can actually trust and feel good talking to. I recommend someone who does narrative postmodern therapy. You'll feel less restricted by what the therapist does or doesn't do in his/her life. It might take a while before you connect with someone, but don't give up. 

Allow yourself a period of separation from your husband while you work out your issues. He has behaved inappropriately with a minor and while he might be rushing to fix your marriage, it is clear that he has got some real work to do on himself, first. His transgression was a big one. This isn't just cheating, but something indicative of bigger and deeper problems within him in addition to problems you may have in your marriage. You will be able to think more clearly about what you want if you are not immediately with him while you are thinking things out, especially given your history with abuse and dysfunction. It's going to take a very long time to make sense of these things, so hang in there.

Don't blame your sister. She acted foolishly, too, but she's a teenager and your husband is a grown man who has basically behaved like a predator. If she has issues with male figures in her life, I am sure the situation was complicated for her, too. She's known him and trusted him and it sounds to me like he really should have known better than to take advantage of a teenager who is young enough to be his own daughter and who isn't even fully mature yet.

Hang in there. What happened is not something you could have prevented, but how you behave now and what you do is entirely in your control. Please don't tune out the very big problem that has now come to light, especially not out of any sense of obligation.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

Not only did he know her age, he had known her since before she was five. He had been, according to the OP, a father figure to her. She wasn't just some random fifteen year old, which would be bad enough.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

sas1643 said:


> Let me be clear...I am not blaming my minor sister...she is the victim and my husband is the adult and should have known better....


It's natural to be confused and conflicted when so much is going on. I'm glad to hear you distinguish between feeling betrayed by your sister's behavior and assigning blame. We feel betrayed whenever the people we love and trust do things that show a disregard for our hearts, so that part makes sense. And you'll come to terms with it at some point in the future.

It is important to hear you say that you are not blaming your sister. It is also important to hear you saying that your husband should have known better. You also need to recognize that he probably did know better, which is why he concealed it, and that he lied and deceived you and did it anyway. You have no way of knowing whether this has happened with other people in the past, either. Please recognize that the blame lies solely with your husband here, that his transgression wasn't just manipulating your sister into sexual acts, but that his transgression was his choice to be a sexual predator regardless of the fact this little girl is not only his sister in law, not only a minor, but also someone who would be vulnerable because of the power imbalance there and because of the family history which he knew fully well; he has behaved this way despite the fact that he has basically watched her grow up. 

As he is now, without reforming himself, he should NOT be trusted around children or impressionable young people -- especially if his response is such a cowardly deceitful and blatantly false "I was too drunk to remember". If you stay with him while you try to work things out, you are sending him the message that his behavior was okay with you and that prevents him from learning how wrong it was on so many levels. He's looking for that. I am not saying go run and get a divorce now, but I honestly believe that a separation is a very good idea for your mental health and for him to understand the consequences and problems of such depraved behavior. Please think about not just blaming him, but understanding how much blame he should be getting and also the severity of the blameworthy transgression. 

Your life if falling apart, but you need to step farther back, not just to see how your marriage will survive this, but whether this man can be helped to become someone who is safe to be married to. Given what you know about him now, how much more is he hiding? Do you really know who he is, after all? Look carefully at what he reveals about himself now that he's been caught out because it will say a lot about his character; these are things you need to see and make sense of before you make a decision about whether or not to stay with this person.


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## River1977 (Oct 25, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> It's interesting that he married his wife when she was 19yrs old and I would imagine dated her beforehand. She said that she was troubled and he helped her. Her sister is 15 and troubled. Maybe he is turned on by troubled teenaged girls.


Yes, turned on and knowing they are vulnerable and he can prey on them. He surely preyed on the sister.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Lyris said:


> Even if the 15 year old lay down naked in front of him, there is no excuse, not one, for him not shutting her down and walking away. I don't care whether she initiated and planned the whole thing, which i highly doubt.


I bet the number of men who would walk away is far lower than you think. 

I probably would, but I'm also going to make sure I'm never in that circumstance.

That said, I've also sat on a jury and sent a guy away for 8 years for doing that with a 14 y/o. She was aggressive, and freely admitted that she sought out a "experienced" guy for her first time. She said she wanted it to be good instead of fumbling around with a kid her age. The point of the age of consent laws is to protect kids from predators. This girl didn't need any protecting, she was going to go and have sex. In the end, I feel OK with what I did, because the guy knew exactly what the consequences would be and took the risk.


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## WillK (May 16, 2012)

turnera said:


> She's mature enough to know she'll get more attention by being the victim than the aggressor.


So is my 5 year old girl who's in kindergarten. 

Children under 18 aren't given the responsibility that adults are given because they are still biologicaly growing, and they have growth hormones coursing through their body that can still override ther rational processes. That calms down in adulthood, and the law is set as a standard at age 18 (generally speaking) as a recognition of that. Adults, and at 30 something there can be no question that this applies, are expected to have the self-control to act rationally without their hormones overriding that rational restraint. Whether the line is at 18 or 21 or 16, it is plain as day that it is more understandable for a 15 year old than a 35 year old to not have the will-power to override hormones.

With that said.. We've been talking about this for 4 pages without any sign of the OP. I stayed out of it because it's all just messed up as far as I'm concerned.


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## eowyn (Mar 22, 2012)

I guess we will all attempt to comment on this situation as to what our own experiences have been in life, what kind of people, what kind of 15-year olds we came across so far. I would ask for more details before commenting either ways. (1) Some more details about the incidence from both sides to make sure it is all true (2) husband's reaction (3) what kind of legal consequences might he face, (4) any existing conflicts b/w husband and her family, husband and her sister (5) any existing jealousy issues between OP and her sister?

When something like this happens it is very important in my opinion to first validate that what is being said is all true, that there are no false accusations etc. 

Assuming what is being said is true, I think only OP would be in a position to judge the situation entirely. I would just advice that OP finds out all facts with a non-biased mind and evaluates them as rationally as she can in her position, which I am sure not a comfortable one right now. 

Assuming this is all true the H would certainly be at fault and it would sound like it was indeed premeditated. Definitely not something that can be forgiven. As for the sister's behavior that is gray area for me. To a bystander such as me, I would think it is all husband's fault. However I haven't come across any 15-year olds who drink beer in the first place. So my opinion is biased out of my own perception. Only OP can decide about what she thinks about her sister's role in this. 

As for the general discussion on 15-year olds .. In my opinion there is a big difference between a 5-year old and a 15-year old. A 15-year old certainly can understand what is right and what is wrong irrespective of the hormones.


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

No update from sas?


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## Trojan John (Sep 30, 2011)

I dated a girl at 15 who was (unbeknownst to me) also dating a married man with three children. She knew what she was doing and was essentially milking him for money. When he stopped paying she went to the police and he ended up being jailed for five years for sex with a minor. It was fairly big news at the time. She was playing all sorts of games and it ended up catching up with her as she has changed her name and reinvented herself (as much as that is worth). He is estranged from his wife and kids and has the lifetime stigma of being a sex offender. She is celebrated for having come through this ordeal a stronger person.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

Trojan John said:


> I dated a girl at 15 who was (unbeknownst to me) also dating a married man with three children. She knew what she was doing and was essentially milking him for money. When he stopped paying she went to the police and he ended up being jailed for five years for sex with a minor. It was fairly big news at the time. She was playing all sorts of games and it ended up catching up with her as she has changed her name and reinvented herself (as much as that is worth). He is estranged from his wife and kids and has the lifetime stigma of being a sex offender. She is celebrated for having come through this ordeal a stronger person.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wowza a real player what a gamey chick and the married guy got what he deserved


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

John did he know she was 15 or did she lie? If he knew then he deserved what he got. It he is stupid enough to break the law and play into the pathology of a teen then he has to pay. 

Unfortunately, his wife and kids had to pay too. He did not protect them. 

He deserves to be despised for a selfish, deceptive, criminal bottom feeding idiot. 

Why waste any sorrow for him? He gave up his family to chase orgasms! Of all things - something as trivial as sexual pleasure made him throw away the family jewels.


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## JuliaP (Mar 21, 2011)

sas1643 said:


> ....I was sexually abused by my father at the age of 5 and taken from my family and put in foster care for almost a year.......Part of me thinks that if I stay with my husband I am no better than she is....
> 
> Even though I know that she is the 15 year old victim in this....I am angry because I know that she had ownership in this and from what I have been told with her actions she betrayed me as well.


Well, you recreated the same situation unconsciously so that you could repair childhood damage. You were attracted to your H because he had the bad ( and probably some good) traits that your dad had. He also chose you for reasons as well. You built up the scenario again, but now you are the one with the 'creep' and you have the chance to repair YOUR wounds. You get to be the strong mother who does the right thing.

Remove this man from your world-He can not be trusted, and YOU DESERVE a good man you can trust. He is a piece of ****. You need the stability of a strong, proud, loving man. Go to counseling (with a sane counselor!) to figure out how to cope with what happened to you and how to create the future you deserve.

Your sister was 15- we were all easy to manipulate at 15. And if she is your dads daughter- give her a break, she has issues as well. I'd bet this was not the first time she had been sexually molested in some way.

Good luck to you. I'm sorry this happened.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Great post, Julia.


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