# Worn out after 8 years of trying to make it work



## schro311 (Nov 11, 2013)

Ill try to keep it short while still getting my point across.

Got married 8 years ago, both of us were 20 and under a love spell. We dated for 11 months before tying the knot. One of the reasons we got married was because I was offered a job that required me to move about 800 miles away, and neither of us wanted to separate, nor move together without being married.

Right off the bat she started losing her interest is sex, and fast. I've spent over 7 years thinking that was the problem, and trying to fix it with no improvement. We were intimate before marriage, and for some reason I was naive enough to think that being in a legal committed relationship would actually boost our passion.

So not long ago I had an epiphany: the lacking sexual relationship was a symptom, not the cause. The cause is a loss of respect from her towards me.

I lost her respect when her sex drive declined and I turned to porn thinking I could satisfy my needs through that. That turned into a battle between the two of us that has never ended, and an internal struggle with myself that I've only recently been able to overcome.

Part of my revelation was when I started noticing the attention I got from other women, and how I so desperately wanted that from my wife. Not sexual attention per se, just a genuine interest in my conversations and obvious admiration for the things I do.

In the past 8 years I've learned a lot about myself, and her. And I feel like we've grown apart, we have different opinions on things and different interests, partly developed I've no doubt, as a form coping. Though we have both mentioned or even suggest divorce a handful of times through out our marriage, I think we are both too afraid to leave what we know. Because otherwise, we do enjoy each others company, but the is no passion, and no romance, and I have tried enough to think that repairing our relationship is a dead end road.

We are living separately now because I am in school. She says she will move with me where ever I want to go afterwards, but when we lived far from her family before, it became overwhelming and she had an emotional breakdown and became homesick. After my school is complete in about a year, I will be planning on lots of moving, constant training, and time away from home. 3 years ago I found my purpose in life, and joined the Army reserves, and am now going full swing head first into what will be a very demanding career. She does not do well with long distances at all, and I feel like this isn't fair to her, since its something that I changed about myself after our marriage.

We have been through counseling, read books about relationships (I have at least) and researched underlying causes extensively (again only me), and nothing has helped. We get along better now than we have before, because I stopped pressing the issue. When I did press the issue her response was she wasn't comfortable talking about it, and thought that time would work things out. When I pressed harder, it usually ended in a big fight and I was told that she was trying to get over the damage I had done early in our relationship, but apparently not having any luck despite my best efforts to help.

I feel like this is enough to start with. I'm looking for some analysis from folks with experience. I'll gladly answer any questions as its tough to get 8 years summed up in a few paragraphs.

I fell guilty for wanting to leave, like I'm abandoning her. But on the flip side I'm afraid to as well. What if I leave seeking a happier relationship and never find it? If someone guaranteed me that I would find happiness elsewhere, my decision would be made.


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

There are a million things that could be involved here. I think my first question though, is if these things could be resolved, would you want to see the marriage saved?


My story involves a lot of similarities. Got married young and her sex drive utterly plummeted. Like sex was a 2-3 times a year thing, and usually only the "pity sex" variety. I turned to porn as a lot of men do, and after years of that I eventually realized how much damage that did to my marriage and to my wife.

You mention the porn issue being a "battle" between you and her that never ended. You've got to realize that your using porn is an incredible insult to her. It leaves her feeling undervalued, unloved, unworthy, and replaceable. Going off of porn overnight cant' resolve that damage either. If you have convinced her that you are doing nothing wrong, that it's no different from a hobby, that you are entitled to it or, heaven forbid, that if she doesn't want you using it then she aught to spread her legs more often (or something similar to that) then that only makes the situation 10x worse.

You are sort of right about her not respecting you, how could any woman respect a husband who is willing to let his wife feel that way? What wife would then feel inclined to open herself up to him sexually while he is doing that to her? Have you been pushing your wife into anything kinky (or trying to) that perhaps you've gotten into via porn/erotica?

And remember, there are always women out there who will find you attractive, funny, worth talking to, etc. and when there is absolutely zero baggage involved, those will always be fun and exciting interactions. You feel starved for affection, respect, attention, etc., so another woman noticing you and paying attention and being interested will feel like a cold glass of lemonade on a hot summer day. It's exhilarating and refreshing! But it's all fantasy, you know that.

It took me a very long time to realize how my own actions led to breaking down my wife's libido. I'm sure hers was weaker than mine to begin with, probably similar to your wife, but my actions since getting married ensured it would never grow.


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## schro311 (Nov 11, 2013)

The porn has not been an issue for nearly a year now, and I think it is a big part of what helped me see things more clearly. Occasionally now I'll see those provocative banner ads or whatever, and I just think, wow that's so silly.

As to the attention from other women, I'm not talking about flirting or being hit on. I'm talking about conversations with family members and close friends. Interest and attention that is purely no sexual that can be given by anyone, but the characteristics I long for are more noticeable coming from a female.

cdbaker you seem to think that the relationship could be repaired under certain circumstances. Have you been able to turn yours around yet? Or how much progress would you say you've made using what tactics?

As far as would I want to see the marriage saved? Yes. Though I have convinced myself it may be too far gone, and any resolution efforts will be purely one sided. I addition, I often wonder if our hasty wedding caused me to paint her or our relationship into something she/it was not.


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

For the record, I think any relationship can be saved. I also believe that one person can save it alone, in so far as taking and maintaining the steps to start that process. (The "it takes two to tango!" line is over played and not always accurate)

With that said, don't necessarily look to my relationship for proof, yet. I've made lots of mistakes along the way, and while my marriage is better than it used to be, there is still a long way to go. As it relates to the porn stuff and the steps I did to repair some of that damage, I'm very confident in that. My relationship has a lot more messes involved, and I think where I really let things go wrong was in not manning up and putting my foot down when she REALLY crossed way too many lines, because of my guilt over my failures and the harm that did to her. 

For me, I needed to investigate and acknowledge openly to her what my own failures were and how I believe they impacted her. I had to explain to her that I understood how my failures had made her feel, and that they share a large degree of responsibility for our damaged sex life. That level of introspection is good for you as well btw. I imagine she'd want to know that you aren't just putting all of the blame on her, that you don't feel like there is something wrong with her for not accepting some of the things you were doing wrong or not feeling sexual towards you. She might also like to hear that she can trust you still, especially given the distance involved.

And honestly that's a huge issue. The fact that you both are living apart makes things a lot more complicated, I would imagine. I think it would be hard to heal wounds and rebuild trust when separated. How much longer is that going to last and how long have you been apart now? Do you visit each other or speak every day?


Lastly, I'm certainly not calling you a liar, but I will say that of all the men I have asked whether or not they were still using porn at all (or something similarly bad. Erotica, using online personals, speaking with other women, etc.), probably 95% of them were willing to lie to my face about that. It makes us uncomfortable to call it an addiction, and it doesn't feel like it is an addiction at all, until you try to legitimately go without it for a few months and realize that you are able to continuously find excuses for it. Again I'm not saying that's you, but it is certainly usually the case. For women married to those guys, it becomes very, very difficult for their wives to trust them again.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

I think the porn problem is common. It does massive damage to marriages. And as you observe a bad sex life and porn are symptoms of other problems. It can be pretty simple. A woman is not happy with the amount of money a guy makes. She thinks he should have got the promotion instead of the other guy. In response she cuts back sex a lot. She also starts nagging about all kinds of small shxt. The man gets shot down 5 or 6 times in a row and loses confidence. Jerks off to porn and stops approaching his wife.

One big mistake that we guys make is believing that if we love our wives and say it, they should want to have sex. Women don't work that way. They have to be dated, seduced, entertained, etc, otherwise they get bored and want a strange man or no man.

The quality of life for both goes downhill. When they do have sex pregnancy occurs and for the sake of the children they pull together, but their sex life is not regular. This just drags on. Both give up trying.

Do you find your wife attractive? Does she disgust you? Do you find the things she says predictable, annoying and stupid. If you do, are you being fair? If she were in a better mood, could feel differently about her?

Sometimes to get the best out of people we have to take something positive and give them feedback that will make them feel good. You can't lie or make stuff up. You have be honest. 

You married quickly and fear that was a misjudgment. Perhaps you should examine that over and over. Could it be that you felt some sort of passion and that passion drew you together. Is there a hidden chemistry between you that you can ignite. 

When you next unite maybe you need to go on a date, something different, something you are pretty certain she'll enjoy. At the some point in the evening ask her what she remembers about that time. Listen to what she says. She may want to because it was a time of hope and dreams. She may have forgotten them. But if she is reminded of them and you are straight shouldered and look her in the eye, maybe she'll have a nostalgic feeling that you can bring into the present.

I don't know what your lets have sex lines are, but maybe on that evening you need something new. Whispering, _hey beautiful, when get home tonight I am going to fvck your brains out_, may or may not be right for your wife. In any case, you understand what I mean.

If a guy is confident and a little crazy, she may like even if he looks like you.


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## schro311 (Nov 11, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> Do you find your wife attractive? Does she disgust you? Do you find the things she says predictable, annoying and stupid. If you do, are you being fair? If she were in a better mood, could feel differently about her?


Yes, always have. Things she says can be predictable, and annoying depending on the mood of either of us, I wouldn't say stupid though. I don't think she has a worse mood than any other wife of similar duration who has become tired of the constant unsatisfying relationship.




LongWalk said:


> You married quickly and fear that was a misjudgment. Perhaps you should examine that over and over. Could it be that you felt some sort of passion and that passion drew you together. Is there a hidden chemistry between you that you can ignite.


I think any misjudgment was because of a failure to get to know each other better. We were brought up with similar views, but where she has embraced them, I feel like a lot of those views are ignorant and mine are aligned differently. Partly because my views of certain things have changed since our marriage too.



LongWalk said:


> When you next unite maybe you need to go on a date, something different, something you are pretty certain she'll enjoy. At the some point in the evening ask her what she remembers about that time. Listen to what she says. She may want to because it was a time of hope and dreams. She may have forgotten them. But if she is reminded of them and you are straight shouldered and look her in the eye, maybe she'll have a nostalgic feeling that you can bring into the present.


I've been successful at ensuring that during the last 8 years, we have some form of date at least once a month, usually more often. I've tried talking of old times, but it presents a problem: She knows I long for the passion and romance we had while we were dating, which she associates with sex, which she believes we committed in sin, and is ashamed/embarrassed/refuses for whatever reason to talk about.



LongWalk said:


> I don't know what your lets have sex lines are, but maybe on that evening you need something new. Whispering, _hey beautiful, when get home tonight I am going to fvck your brains out_, may or may not be right for your wife. In any case, you understand what I mean.


Im not sure I totally understand, but if you're suggesting being dominant and powerful in my communications about sex, I feel that would hurt the situation more. Kind of paint me as some sex starved monster to her.



LongWalk said:


> If a guy is confident and a little crazy, she may like even if he looks like you.


Again I'm uncertain of the meaning, but are you suggesting another man in the right situation could stir her emotions that she had previously associated with me?


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## schro311 (Nov 11, 2013)

cdbaker said:


> And honestly that's a huge issue. The fact that you both are living apart makes things a lot more complicated, I would imagine. I think it would be hard to heal wounds and rebuild trust when separated. How much longer is that going to last and how long have you been apart now? Do you visit each other or speak every day?


We have been apart since august this time, and it will be midway into 2015 before I'm done. We do converse via text phone and video call every day. 

This is not the first time we have been separated. The last time left me in a state of confusion that I still haven't got over 3 years later. She came down to visit me for the 4 day thanksgiving holiday, even though our communication had been very distant, and often hostile. She accused me of cheating on her, which I denied. But could not deny that I had conversations with another woman that I shouldn't have, (nothing naughty or lustful, just personal topics) and that I had developed an attraction leading to a "wonder what it would have been like" state of thinking.

She got angry and sad, threatened to leave me, and I let her. She grabbed her bags and walked out of the hotel room, and I didn't stop her because I thought she deserved better than me.

She came back in the room about 10 minutes later to find me in a stupor, not having moved since she left. After some apologies, and explanations, we agreed to just go out and try to have a good time together. Which we did. At the end of the night she jumped my bones in the restaurant parking lot! (all other times, anything but our own bed in our own house with no one else there was unthinkable) Then again in the hotel, even requesting that I film it for "later use". Then just as quickly as it came, it disappeared again. That was one of about 3 times in 8 years that she initiated and truly enjoyed herself. And honestly I was too blown away by what was happening to contribute much.



cdbaker said:


> Lastly, I'm certainly not calling you a liar, but I will say that of all the men I have asked whether or not they were still using porn at all (or something similarly bad. Erotica, using online personals, speaking with other women, etc.), probably 95% of them were willing to lie to my face about that. It makes us uncomfortable to call it an addiction, and it doesn't feel like it is an addiction at all, until you try to legitimately go without it for a few months and realize that you are able to continuously find excuses for it. Again I'm not saying that's you, but it is certainly usually the case. For women married to those guys, it becomes very, very difficult for their wives to trust them again.


I can agree with that. I tried quitting cold turkey several times. I was, and am ashamed of it and will only discuss it under anonymity of the internet. I shortly after quitting I was able to realize how it had no place in a healthy relationship. But it took a lot longer to displace the feeling that in a dysfunctional one, one party could be entitled to it through withholding by the other party. I also suffered with making excuses, and legitimizing that erotic literature, flirting with other women etc was not the same thing.


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## schro311 (Nov 11, 2013)

In eight years all forms of physical or verbal intimacy, have been denied at a 95 out of 100 rate I would say. I mentioned earlier that I thought the sex was the issue for a long time. After realizing that wasn't it, I began trying to remember the last time I tried to kiss her passionately and she went for it... before marriage.

I feel like she is so insecure, and I'm so afraid of hurting her more, I cant be honest and open with her about things. For example, if viewing any tv show or movie having an attractive female star, I fear the results of me offering a comment along the lines of, "she has really pretty eyes"


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

Ok... first things first... you and your wife will be living apart for a year and a half?? Holy smokes Batman! Is there no way that she can move to come live with you? I mean, 2-3 months is one thing, but 18 months is entirely different. How can you possibly connect and maintain the relationship in such a manner?

I think the example that you described when your wife jumped your bones in the parking lot is just a sign that she was suddenly fearful that she was losing you. She felt like she needed to pull off a grand gesture of some kind to remind you of what you had in her before she had to leave again, hoping that you'd keep her (and eventually that video she let you make) as a reminder in your mind at all times as you come across other women in your time apart. None of this is a bad thing, but I'm just thinking that it came from a place of fear and insecurity in her, not from love and lust.

As an example, I once went on an out of town trip to visit a good friend of mine along with a female co-worker who was also a mutual friend of his. She and I worked together every day and had an extremely good work friendship, even going so far as openly stating that we were "work spouses," not having any idea of how worried that made my wife. For the record, she and I never crossed any physical lines, nor did we ever speak about or emotionally desire one another in an inappropriate way, but we did engage in conversations that are inappropriate between two non-married people. (Extremely personal relationship matters, sex, etc.) My wife NEVER initiated sex, was never really into it at all. It had been years since she even seemed interested in it without my prodding. But when I got home from that trip, she was in bed with candles burning, wearing lingerie, and ready to jump me. First and only time ever. She wanted to "reclaim" me because she was fearful that she was losing my attention to the female co-worker.

So what I'm saying is that even that awesome night of sex was probably a bad thing because of where it came from. It sounds like she got angry and left, cried her eyes out in the car, realizing that if she left the marriage might be over or at the very least, it was even more likely that you might open up to other women. Or, she could bottle up her fear and tears, and come back and give you a night you won't forget in order to try to sort of "inoculate" you against an affair for a while.

But LongWalk has it right above. We guys tend to think that we can say and do the right things and she should be good to go. Not at all. We have to say and do the right things for a VERY LONG PERIOD OF TIME and show her that she can trust us with her heart before she'll feel comfortable letting out her inner ****. Everyone likes to be chased from time to time, but I think women LOVE it more than we guys need it.


But again, 18 months! Wow. I don't know how you can resolve these issues apart. I also know how difficult it would be to cease porn (and similar activities) completely by yourself. I just think that, without a much stronger marriage bond than you have right now, both of you are going to be incredibly vulnerable/susceptible to outside temptations.


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## schro311 (Nov 11, 2013)

cdbaker said:


> I think the example that you described when your wife jumped your bones in the parking lot is just a sign that she was suddenly fearful that she was losing you. She felt like she needed to pull off a grand gesture of some kind to remind you of what you had in her before she had to leave again, hoping that you'd keep her (and eventually that video she let you make) as a reminder in your mind at all times as you come across other women in your time apart. None of this is a bad thing, but I'm just thinking that it came from a place of fear and insecurity in her, not from love and lust.


I think that particular instance did more damage than good in the long run. 3 years later I still remember it, and it reminded me of what we had already lost. Also at times I have felt like you suggested that it was done as a countermeasure, a relationship tactic if you will. And the fact that I can count on one finger the number of times since, that she has initiated anything. And probably about 5 times when has returned a passionate kiss.

I can understand your spouses insecurities based on what you wrote above. Its frustrating and damning that we typically can pick out someone else's mistake from a mile away, but it takes us years to recognize our own.

We talked before I started this training about living arrangements. We agreed this was the best option. She could have come with me, but logistically, financially, and me graduating one of the most intense long term courses the Army has to offer it didn't make sense. Not attending this course, or graduating, is absolutely not an option.


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## schro311 (Nov 11, 2013)

I was thinking back on the early stages of our relationship just now and some things stuck out to me.

1). While we were engaged, I had pursued something sexually, that I didn't find out until the next day that she had a huge problem with. She said she considered leaving me then but thought we could work it out. I wonder if this was a huge red flag of incompatibility that we both ignored, and also failed to discuss what our boundaries were beforehand.

2). Before dating, we were friends for a while and I made it clear that I wanted it to stay that way. And in a moment of lust, (both sober, surprisingly) we made out, endured a few days of awkward silence, and then I thought what the heck lets see where this goes. Sex was the first thing on my mind back then and it didn't take long to get there. I was naive, thinking this meant we were meant for each other, and that we "clicked." Possibly setting the stage for what I expected and became frustrated with early on after marriage.

Part of the reason I didn't wan't a relationship at that time (or at least not with her) was because I knew her from grade school, and had an untainted image of her in my head. And at that time in my life, I was very aware of the fact that I was actively looking only for sex, and really no emotional connection. (I was 19)

3). I wonder sometimes if this is why our communication skills never developed, because I was too focused on the physical aspect, and she was enthralled with the idea of a stable long term relationship and a future. Still to this day we never talk about serious issues, because when we do, our opinions differ greatly leading to uncomfortable feelings or arguments.

For 8 years every time someone commented about getting married young or quickly, I brushed it off and said, "sometimes you just know". My logical side has emerged saying "you spend more time and effort shopping for you next car than you did in the beginning of this relationship!"


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## caladan (Nov 2, 2012)

cdbaker said:


> But LongWalk has it right above. We guys tend to think that we can say and do the right things and she should be good to go. Not at all. We have to say and do the right things for a VERY LONG PERIOD OF TIME and show her that she can trust us with her heart before she'll feel comfortable letting out her inner ****. Everyone likes to be chased from time to time, but I think women LOVE it more than we guys need it.


What sort of women are you guys married to? How old are you/they? lol


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## schro311 (Nov 11, 2013)

caladan said:


> What sort of women are you guys married to? How old are you/they? lol


We are both 28.


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## schro311 (Nov 11, 2013)

No one else has any useful insights here?


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Shame that there isn't more commentary.

I can't help feeling that the army job is going to separate even more in the future. You need to go to MC.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## schro311 (Nov 11, 2013)

Well we had a long series of talks this weekend and agreed that we both are still in it and want to work things out, for ourselves, not just the girls.

It is a shame that there's not more commentary. Maybe once I get things straightened out for myself, I can use my experience to help other soldiers and their spouses.


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

Schro, you touched on an important issue in one of your last posts, expectations.

Often I've seen scenarios where couples struggle to get along, had long standing resentment, frustration, etc. not because anyone is doing anything obviously wrong (like cheating, gambling, abusing drugs/alcohol, etc.) but because their own expectations are failing to be met. We all have a perception of who and what we feel our spouse should be to us. What kind of responsibilities they should have, how they should treat us, how we should treat them, how they should want to act and do, etc. They have their own perception of who we should be as well. Those are our expectations for our spouse, and we often don't realize that maybe it is our expectations that are out of line, not our spouse, and often we fail to communicate those expectations because we don't realize that they aren't universal!

As an example, I have a friend who grew up seeing his mom greet his father at the door every time he came home from work. Every single time, she'd get up from what she was doing just to go say hello and greet him with a kiss. Even if it was a "bad day" and they weren't getting along, she didn't skip that hello and kiss. In his mind, that is how spouses are supposed to respond to the other coming home from work. 

When he got married, his wife didn't do that. Not because she didn't love or respect him of course, it just didn't occur to her to greet him at the door like that. On days when she got home after he did, he would be sure to greet her at the door with a kiss, hoping she'd get the hint. After a while, he mentioned to her off hand that he'd really like it if she would greet him at the door with a kiss. She listened and said she'd try to remember, and she did once in a while when she wasn't already busy when he'd walk in, but had no idea that after that, any time she didn't come greet him at the door that it absolutely crushed him. Why? Because he'd walk in and see her watching a TV show, or excercising, or talking on the phone, etc., not coming over to greet him, and since he had shared with her what it meant to him (or thought he did), interpreted it as her basically sending the message to him that all of those things she was doing was more important to her than he was. That phone call, the TV show, the excercising, etc. To him, it was the same as, "I'm not going to interupt for even one second the things I am doing for the sake of meeting your emotional need right now. Maybe when I have nothing better to do, I'll come meet your need." He grew extremely bitter and frustrated over time, which came out in all kinds of other unpleasant wants, until he figured all of this out.

It seems like a small thing of course, but to him it was huge, and even he didn't realize how huge it was. His wife wasn't really doing anything wrong at all, she still loved him and wants him to feel loved. His request wasn't really unreasonable either, he just didn't realize that this small act wasn't a common expectation among spouses because of the way he was raised, and she didn't realize how important it was to him because he didn't really make himself clear when he mentioned it. (To him, he wasn't really introducing a completely new concept and request, he was just trying to remind her of something he thought she should already know to do.)

Anyways, sorry for the long drawn-out story, but I think it's a good idea for individuals in a relationship to stop and think about their own expectations in the relationship every now and then and try to see if there could be any that are causing conflict by not being properly understood or communicated by both or either partner.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Good story.

There many threads about sexless marriages. Several women posters have been active. I would search for those threads and read them.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Personally, I think that if she's not willing to have sex with you, the marriage is already dead. Tell her that you need it to have a fulfilling relationship (you can print out tons of articles that say so) and if that's not what she wants, then you want to part ways so you can both find someone better suited for you.


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## schro311 (Nov 11, 2013)

To clarify, our marriage is not sexless by definition. I frequently get pity sex, and the occasional faked orgasm if things are good. Although its what I consider sexless in the that sex is a physical display of the emotional relationship, and that the passion in the bedroom is directly related to the passion everywhere else in the relationship.

I still don't know where we are headed. As much as I want things to work out, I also feel like we are unbelievably matched in certain areas. She is content with everything the way it is, while I seek improvement in every single little thing. She likes her hometown and wants to stay there forever; I think our home towns are nice areas to visit occasionally, but would rather travel the country/world.

I am thinking (and 8 yrs experience backs me up) that as long as she is content enough in our relationship to not leave, she will be content to not make any other changes as well. That's actually one of my favorite things about her too, she's so content that she never complains about our relationship. Kinda makes everything feel one sided, and I feel like I'm being the bad one saying I'm not happy.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Have you read His Needs Her Needs?


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## schro311 (Nov 11, 2013)

I've read 5 languages of love, and she did start reading it. I think I might have actually ordered his needs her needs too, I'll have to check when I get home for thanksgiving Thursday. Maybe we could read it together, or take turns while I'm during slow portions of school.


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## schro311 (Nov 11, 2013)

Today's update: the pendulum has swung back, and now the discussion includes our capability and desire to separate peacefully.


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## Boricha (Sep 29, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> Whispering, _hey beautiful, when get home tonight I am going to fvck your brains out_, may or may not be right for your wife. In any case, you understand what I mean.


This is extremely inappropriate wording and I find it highly offensive. How does this kind of advise help anyone?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Lots of men talk that way. It is what it is.

schro, did you check to see if you have His Needs Her Needs?


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## schro311 (Nov 11, 2013)

Yes I brought it back with me after 4 pleasant days at home. I told her I wanted to read it and 5 languages of love, and then have her read them both too. Her emotions are a roller coaster right now, and mine aren't much better. But we both agreed we can't imagine being happier with other people, and would rather work on our issues, than try to start new with other people.


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

It's tough. Mine is the same. Very little sex but pretended to be happy until an EA started. Then I was not good enough eve though I make 100 k a year. Then it's not enough and she second guesses you and everything else. It's tough hang in there. Be strong and look after yourself first.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

HNHN is good to read together, or at least to get together every few days and discuss what she's learning from it, what you've learned, and how you can apply it together.


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## ThereToo (Apr 15, 2012)

I was able to avoid that pitfall in my first LTR at age 23...we dated for a couple years,and I saw things starting to wear off. I had decided to pursue a career out of state and she gave me that ultimatum of getting married or break up. Perhaps because I was younger and gutsier,I opted for a 'temporary separation'...

Second time around I wasn't so lucky;


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