# Does alcohl r drugs cause permanent damage?



## becky1234

We've been married 13 years - second marriage for both of us. I have two children; a 24 year old boy who lives away from home and 19 year old girl who still lives at home and attends university. He has an 18 year old daughter at boarding school.

We married within 6 months of meeting and I then discovered he was an alcoholic and substance abuser. He has given up everything for the last 3 years but the first 10 years were difficult with alot of binges and me trying to shield the children but not always being successful.

As a result my children resent him even more than the normal step child resents their step parent. They have seen the way he has treated me and have no respect left for him. 
They wondered why I stayed with him and exposed them to the chaos and I feel guilty for not leaving him and subjecting my children to all of this.

My son and him have not got along for years now and it's got so bad that when they're in the same house I feel like I have two male dogs fighting for dominance. There have been several almost violent incidents but my son lives 1000 miles away and only visits occasionaly.

However since my children's father died last year I am now their only parent and I like them to consider this their home that they can come to for Christmas and other holidays.

When my son comes, my husband moves out with his daughter. It's not done in a nice way either and always feels insulting to us.

After he totally ruined our family Christmas my daughter came out in support of me and had words with him and now they don't get along either. Since he moved back in they hardly tolerate each other and she often stays in her room when he's at home.

This past weekend they had a bad argument with lots of insults and my daughter became very upset. I felt I had to side with her to show her she still has some support in the family but this resulted in my husband taking offence and moving out again. This time telling me that he wants out of our family completely and is talking about a permanent separation.

I feel so torn between all of them and have spent years trying to please each one and share my love out equally. It's proved very stressful and I've had a good deal of illness due to this stress.

It's easier with him gone but I'm devastated that my marriage might be over.
He is adamant that he will never get along with my son and he feels that as long as I condone my daughter's behaviour ie the slinging match between them where I didn't interfere, then there's no hope for our marriage.
I feel that my children probably wonder why I condoned his behaviour for 10 years and that he was never asked to apologise for his behaviour.

At times I feel that he's completely unhinged and irrational because he has periods when he's so nice and normal and other times when he seems to be very angry in general and finds fault with everything we do or say and during those times he is verbally abusive. He's had these mood swings since I met him but I always put it down to alcohol but it's been 3 years since he touched alcohol or drugs now. I wonder if the abuse could have damaged him in some way.

Does anyone have similar experiences to share? Or any advice?
Thankyou for reading.
Becky


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## In_The_Wind

becky1234 said:


> At times I feel that he's completely unhinged and irrational because he has periods when he's so nice and normal and other times when he seems to be very angry in general and finds fault with everything we do or say and during those times he is verbally abusive. He's had these mood swings since I met him but I always put it down to alcohol but it's been 3 years since he touched alcohol or drugs now. I wonder if the abuse could have damaged him in some way.
> Hi Becky sorry you are here
> Sure it could depends on length of time and what drugs and alcohol he was using. Does he attend either AA or NA if so does he work the steps ? have a sponser etc the reason i ask is that even being clean he could have wreckage from his past ie physical mental etc from the drugs and alcohol. If he is not in active recovery he is what we term a "Dry Drunk" hence his actions of being up and down or one way one day and the other way the next day although i have not met him and i am generalizing I am a recovering addict myself with 12 yrs clean and have some experience in this area I wish you good luck
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thankyou for reading.
> Becky


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## becky1234

Thanks for your reply. No he never went to AA or for any outside help. He did it alone and has no support whatsoever. He started attending church and bible study and has made friends there although he hasn't shared with them about his past.
Do you think he's aware of his erratic behaviour?
He doesn't seem to be even though it's now caused a separation - he seems to think all his actions are completely justified and that he's done nothing wrong.
Is there anything at all that I can do? 
Could I point out to him that there's obviously a problem due to his past abuse problems and maybe suggest he seeks help? Counselling maybe?


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## becky1234

Thanks for your reply. No he never went to AA or for any outside help. He did it alone and has no support whatsoever. He started attending church and bible study and has made friends there although he hasn't shared with them about his past.
Do you think he's aware of his erratic behaviour?
He doesn't seem to be even though it's now caused a separation - he seems to think all his actions are completely justified and that he's done nothing wrong.
Is there anything at all that I can do? 
Could I point out to him that there's obviously a problem due to his past abuse problems and maybe suggest he seeks help? Counselling maybe?


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## trey69

He might be bipolar or have some BPD traits. I would suggest he go see a therapist. 

He also needs some kind of support. AA is a good place to start. Thats wonderful if he has the mentality that he has done this all on his own, but, he is more likely to relapse without some kind of support. AA has people there who are or have been in the same boat as he has been. 

He needs counseling for past and present issues.


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## PBear

It doesn't really matter if the substances caused the personality issues or if they were pre-existing, does it? The end result is there's still issues to deal with.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## becky1234

trey69 said:


> He might be bipolar or have some BPD traits. I would suggest he go see a therapist.
> 
> He also needs some kind of support. AA is a good place to start. Thats wonderful if he has the mentality that he has done this all on his own, but, he is more likely to relapse without some kind of support. AA has people there who are or have been in the same boat as he has been.
> 
> He needs counseling for past and present issues.


Thanks. I know AA is very good - they gave me alot of support while my husband was drinking etc. Unfortunately he is extremely stubborn and won't do anything I suggest - in fact he'll happily do the opposite just to show me that he won't take orders from anyone!
I will try to convince him to get some counselling. If he asks to move back home I will made that a condition.


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## becky1234

PBear said:


> It doesn't really matter if the substances caused the personality issues or if they were pre-existing, does it? The end result is there's still issues to deal with.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're probably right I just wondered if there was a different way of addressing the problem if it was caused by the abuse, or if in fact there is a way to repair this type of damage.


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## becky1234

trey69 said:


> He might be bipolar or have some BPD traits. I would suggest he go see a therapist.
> 
> What is BPD?


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## fearful55

Becky, In_The_Wind has it right. As I was reading your story I was thinking the same. "Dry Drunk".

Booze and drugs, alcoholism/addiction, definitely do damage. It is a soul sickness. 

alcoholism/addiction has three components;

1. mental (obsession)
2. physical (compulsion)
3. spiritual (loss of values)

Staying away from the booze/drugs will eventually resolve 1 and 2. 

Years of using something to mask your feelings, years of being controlled by addiction, years of changing from the person you were before your first drink into the person you become...that is quite a bit of change, none of it good. Without addressing the need to change the person who has put down the drink, the alcoholic is the same miserable person he was before becoming dry or clean. That isn't being sober. To be sober, one must deal with all three components of the disease. 

In the opinion of many, somewhat tongue in cheek, someone who is dry and not working on sobriety "might as well just drink." If you're going to live like a miserable SOB anyway...? Sure the obvious benefits of saying dry fix the outside stuff, but sobriety is an "inside job". 

To answer your question, the damage isn't permanent, IF the damage is acknowledged and addressed. By far the most successful treatment known is AA. 

That's what I'd do

That's what I DO do...

I can't say your husband is definitely and alcoholic and needs AA. Those are decisions one must make on one's own. But if it quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck 

With his history, his behavior is textbook. If you had told your story at an AA podium, the entire room would be nodding in affirmative solidarity. They would all be thinking, "He's one of us."


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## trey69

becky1234 said:


> trey69 said:
> 
> 
> 
> He might be bipolar or have some BPD traits. I would suggest he go see a therapist.
> 
> What is BPD?
> 
> 
> 
> BPD= Borderline Personality Disorder.
Click to expand...


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## becky1234

trey69 said:


> becky1234 said:
> 
> 
> 
> BPD= Borderline Personality Disorder.
> 
> 
> 
> I looked up BPD
> Inappropriate anger, intense irritability, unstable and intense relationships, impulsivity, switching between idealizing and demonizing others, mood swings, binges with food, alcohol or substances, unstable self-image.
> 
> My word! this describes my husband exactly!!
> 
> Now I'm wondering did he already have this disorder which then led to the alcoholism and substance abuse, or was it the other way around.
> 
> And more importantly how can I get him to realise that he has this disorder and needs to get help?
Click to expand...


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## CLucas976

I wouldn't just jump to BPD right yet. 

In a normal person, likely. But you're talking about an addict here. That's as good as the idea the shrink had to give my alcoholic drug addicted little sister a diagnosis of bipolar and a script for xanax. She's now dead.

I too thought dry drunk. I've seen it from my little sister, I've seen it from my husband and it doesn't solely apply to alcoholism. IMO even if he might be BPD, the addiction and its effects need to be completely addressed first before digging into what might have been there before the addiction took hold.

My sister went to rehabs, detoxes, halfway houses, etc. She had full support from her family and went to AA. She was an amazing person sober, except like the list above, that last component was never handled, and she'd relapse days, weeks, months later because she couldn't handle her emotions, feelings, previous actions, any of it..you have to fix the person to fix the addiction.


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## fearful55

.


CLucas976 said:


> you have to fix the person to fix the addiction.



Amen...well said.


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## becky1234

CLucas976 said:


> I wouldn't just jump to BPD right yet.
> 
> In a normal person, likely. But you're talking about an addict here. That's as good as the idea the shrink had to give my alcoholic drug addicted little sister a diagnosis of bipolar and a script for xanax. She's now dead.
> 
> I too thought dry drunk. I've seen it from my little sister, I've seen it from my husband and it doesn't solely apply to alcoholism. IMO even if he might be BPD, the addiction and its effects need to be completely addressed first before digging into what might have been there before the addiction took hold.
> 
> My sister went to rehabs, detoxes, halfway houses, etc. She had full support from her family and went to AA. She was an amazing person sober, except like the list above, that last component was never handled, and she'd relapse days, weeks, months later because she couldn't handle her emotions, feelings, previous actions, any of it..you have to fix the person to fix the addiction.



Thank you! I looked up Dry Drunk and it told me this:

_"Unfortunately when many former drinkers go through the grieving process over the loss of their old friend, the bottle, some never get past the anger stage."_

I can understand this - he's grieving for his loss. So that makes me think that he should eventually get over it. I just wonder how many years it will take or whether he'll be stuck in this process for the rest of his life. 

I read further and the article tells me this:

_"Some never make it. It's sad to see them, sometimes many years later, still stuck in their anger, bitterness, and resentment at having to make the change in their lives. They haven't had a drink in years, but they have also never had a "sober" day."
_

My understanding is that he would have to recognise the fact that he suffers from this in order to address the problem and recover.

Dry Drunk is described as _ "A condition of returning to one's old alcoholic thinking and behavior without actually having taken a drink."_

It makes perfect sense to me. The article then goes on to make suggestions as to what steps can be taken for a full recovery:


"_There is a theory that in order to fully recover from the effects of alcoholism, the alcoholic must replace the obsessive behaviors in his life with their spiritual opposites. Frankly, there are those who believe that without such spiritual help from a power greater than themselves, true recovery is impossible."
_

He goes to church and has become almost fanatical about his beliefs.

He goes fishing, cycling and is making an effort to look after his health. 

I could say that almost everything the article suggests - he has tried - with me right there behind him.

I would also say that he is addictive about everything else but that probably doesn't matter.

The fact is, none of these things has changed his attitude, his angry moods and lack of tolerance for his family, friends and customers.

But at least I can understand where it's coming from.


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## EleGirl

Yes alcohol and drugs and cause permanent damage to the brain of the drug/alcohol abuser. Some of it is not referable.

Another issue is that your husband might have some form of mental illness, like bi-polar, and used the drugs/alcohol to self-medicate this is very common. From what you say now that he has been clean for a while he does sound like he has issues.

I have a similar issue. My husband does not use drugs or alcohol. We married in 2000. When we married his 2 children were 10 & 12 and my son was 10. The children are now 22, 23, and 25. 

Since he lost his job in 2002 due to layoff at the company he worked for he has basically not work all this time. Over time he has come to spend almost every waking hour on his computer playing games. When I’m not at home he goes to sex sites to view porn and to engage in ‘virtual’ sex with people on those sites. He has an entire group of friends that he has apparently been doing this with for years. He has done nothing over the years to really help support the family or raise the children. 

All 3 children, his and my son are furious at him. My son is upset that I have let him stay. But I felt that I could not kick him out because his children would probably have to go as well. And it would not be fair to have them lose the only home they had known for so long. Their mother had abandoned them when they were young. I am the only mother they have had through most of their live. They did not deserve to be kicked out of their home and lose the only stability they knew. 

So now I have 3 children who are very angry at him. They are upset that I have not told him to leave. My son is the only one living at home now. He, like your daughter lives at home while in college. I am concerned about the level of anger between the two of them. My son wants to stomp my husband for good reason. He is angry at the way my husband has treated me, his own children and my son.

I realize that my husband has to go. My son has done nothing wrong. My husband has done a lot wrong. My son is right to be upset about the way my husband behaves. 

In this matter you are in the same place I am in.

My 2 cents is that you need to let your husband go. Your children are right. You will do better on your own. If you go to counseling and figure out your own issues, fix them you might find a better relationship. If you don’t being alone is better and healthier than being in a abusive relationship.


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## becky1234

Thank you so much and my sympathies to you for what you have and are going through.
I've done alot of research about 'dry drunk syndrome' since I read about it here. It's the first I've heard of such a thing but finally everything begins to make sense to me.

Also I feel relief that I'm not imagining all this and I know that I did try as hard as I could to keep our marriage going.

Now that my husband is out of the house I'm beginning to get used to the idea of being alone. All these years I've been so scared he would leave and that I'd never make it alone but now I find that it actually isn't scarey at all! If only I'd known I would have done this a long time ago.

My husband has messaged my daughter to say sorry and he has also messaged me to chat. However for the first time ever I haven't crumbled and said sorry to him just because I want things to be good between us again.

I know that the anger is gone now and that he expects everything to be forgotten and for us to go on as before. This time it won't happen that way though because I feel like someone switched on a light in my head and I've finally woken up from a nightmare and realised I have to do something.

I'm going to suggest counselling for him and that will be a condition before he can come home. He may or may not agree but it will be his choice.

Could you not do something about your situation too? Since the children are all adults now maybe it's time for you to reconsider.
Somebody said the following to me and it really helped me to put things into perspective - so I'm going to say it to you to:

"My question to you would be...why do you value your husband above the well being of your children, their opinion of you...or even above your own health and better principles? How does this man enrich your life or the lives of your children in a way that is meaningful to each? Your husband lacks humility which is a key ingredient to respecful behavior towards others"


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## becky1234

Something good has happened. For the first time EVER, I didn't contact him, I didn't say sorry, I didn't make the first move. I left him to think about things. Guess what? He actually asked to talk to me. He told me how sorry he is and has contacted a counselor. I agreed to go with him. But I did make a condition that he not move back into our home until such time as we feel the counselling is working (if it works at all). 

I realise that he's still of the opinion that this is a mutual problem (and I'm willing to accept that there could be problems on both sides) and we both need help with our marriage. I'm happy that it's a small step forward.

The counselor isn't AA or even someone who deals with alcoholics or addicts specifically but he's a pastor who apparently has alot of experience in dealing in all kinds of problems. It's a start!

Friday's our first appointment.


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## In_The_Wind

Becky that is great news I would ask the pastor if they have a celebrate recovery group at your church
A lot of churchs offer this program nowadays it deals with all addictions 

Good Luck
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## becky1234

In_The_Wind said:


> Becky that is great news I would ask the pastor if they have a celebrate recovery group at your church
> A lot of churchs offer this program nowadays it deals with all addictions
> 
> Good Luck
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks I will ask him


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