# My story



## kat24 (May 10, 2014)

6 months ago I found out. We were out to dinner with friends and he kept texting. I glanced, not really looking, at his phone and saw the first letter of the person's name. I asked who he was texting and he said a guy name, I said, "that's not who it was." And he said "no it's not. We need to talk." I immediately knew. I turned my back on him and somehow sat there with 12 of our friends at dinner for the next few hours. Not knowing how it was that this unbelievable nightmare could seem like it was really happening. 

We'd been together for 27 years, married for 25. High school sweethearts. Teen parents. "Beating the odds" I always thought. We accepted the path our lives took all those years ago and worked really hard to get to where we are now. I had always been so proud. "Longest married" at our last class reunion. Happy, loving. Made it through the lean years, have a nice home, great adult children that are coming in to their own. Was looking forward to the future to come, more travel, less work, comfortable lifestyle, grandkids. The whole dream ya know? 

The Reader's Digest version is this - his mother abandoned him when he was 11, he lived with his father who was mostly absent. He could best be described as a person with Narcissistic Tendencies, but I never recognized it until after D- Day. If someone had placed a description of that in front of me years ago, I could have checked 'yes' to each one for him, but I had only just seen those things as who he was. We were happy - peppered by moments of him being irrational and impulsive and stating that he deserved so much more respect than everyone else because of all "he" had done for our family. It wasn't all the time - there are far more good things, traits of him then bad. I, on the other hand, right from the moment we decided to forge a life together was determined to 'make it work' - I am not a confrontational person, not quick to anger, not a yeller, am quite happy to not sweat the small stuff and if I didn't care about where to eat or what to do and he did, I was perfectly fine to just go along. This is all not to say that I had no voice in the relationship, but when the life you have lived for so long was with such a strong personality, you assume that maybe he's right even when your head is screaming that YOU are. 
My role in his affair, in my opinion, was that I did allow him his irrational thoughts, I catered to him and my total love and devotion fostered his thoughts of 'deserving' whatever he wanted. 

His initial words to me when I found out(as we were driving home from our dinner out) were that he loved this person and was leaving. Shock, disbelief, I don't have to spell it out. You all know the feelings. When we got home, i went to our room and just was hysterical at some point he came in the room and I jumped off the bed like i had been touched by a red hot poker - I believe I was yelling while crying...the one thing that I remember saying was "WHO ARE YOU?". When I said that I literally saw a veil lift from his face and he immediately wanted to repair things. The next few days were spent with me doing a lot of yelling and asking the billions of questions. By the 3rd day I told him to leave, I couldn't have him in the house any longer because I had no clue what I was thinking. He went to stay with his brother. We started counseling right away - separate and together. Once some of the shock left, I knew that I couldn't just throw away 27 years without trying. So that's where I still am today - Never have I changed my decision to keep trying to reconcile, but as you all know, it's no understatement to say - it's freakin' hard! His immediate(and continued, no contact with her) remorse, repentance, willingness to see his thought process for his whole adult life has been skewed, to work on changing that, continue counseling, etc etc are what is keeping me here. Along with the fact that despite it all I love the guy. 
My question to you all is this - how is it that I want so desperately to stay with the man I love, but I don't want to live with someone that would do the things he did. No matter what wacko frame of mind his head was in at the time. Am I really okay with living with the triggers, the memories - that although less frequent - are still daily. Am I okay with compromising my values/beliefs of what I would accept from my spouse to fit this new reality my life has become? 
I know this is long, and I know you all know there's tons more to the story, I am seeking anyone who's made it through reconciliation to give me hope. Infidelity has touched several people close to me, but none are still together. Our doctor says we are doing great and she sees such hope for us - friends say, if anyone can make it you two can. I feel that, they are right in a way, but we'll only make it if I can control my head and emotions..(and he keeps up what he is doing obviously)...is that what I want for the rest of my life?!


----------



## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Hi Kat,

Sorry you are here, I hope like others that you will make it.

But before talking about the reconciliation, what was exactly what happened with his affair?

I and people here will want to know if it is over yet, and therefore we need a timeline and data. What did he say when, what did you see in his behavior at times, what did your gut tell you at what moments.


----------



## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

kat24 said:


> My question to you all is this - how is it that I want so desperately to stay with the man I love, but I don't want to live with someone that would do the things he did....is that what I want for the rest of my life?!


A few thoughts..

First, you had no role in this. Anyone who tells you differently is not only wrong, but a fraud. This is all on him and he needs to acknowledge this.

Second, you want to stay with him because of all the continuity you have with him. He clearly doesn't love you, but out of new found guilt will make the pretense to cover his betrayal.

My advice is to remain totally apart (different houses...) for 3 to 6 months. Take time for you. Get out, meet new people (but remain true to yourself), see the kids and do things for you. Once you feel you have a solid grip on yourself, then start to consider the relationship. He is a betrayer and always will be. No genuine love, no trust, no faith... just a guy who wants to have his cake and eat it to at your expense. If you can live with that, then fine. If you want more than that, then go your own way. I can tell you from personal experience, a better and more honest life awaits you.


----------



## Stevenj (Mar 26, 2014)

Sorry that you are here and for your situation. It must be painful and unbearable. Everything you believed has been shattered. You have taken the right steps by separating. Many people do make it through, but it is never the same. It will take years to work things out. It has to be a commitment by both parties though.


----------



## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

A few more thoughts.

It may be you also want to stay with him as he is all you know. The thought of suddenly being alone in the world with seemingly no future is scary. So you want to hold on to your security.

But remember, he doesn't love you, doesn't love the marriage, has no respect for you, and would rather be elsewhere. That makes for a pretty bleak future. 

Go and explore the world and life a bit. You may find you prefer it to the misery that lay ahead with a betrayer.


----------



## kat24 (May 10, 2014)

I knew after I hit submit there was a lot of detail left out, but it was getting so long! Anyway - thank you so much for your reply! 

The affair went on for 6-7 weeks. The first 3-4 weeks of it he was working 12 hour night shifts at a different place then he normally works. It was further away from our home. He would leave before I got home from work and in the morning when he'd get home I was headed out the door for work myself. 

The woman, sorry I don't remember all the abbreviations yet!, was a contractor that travels to all sorts of plants when work is needed. so, luckily she isn't someone he will always continue to see at work. Anyway. During the time they were working together they would sneak off and make out - once that job was over she was working at a different place but it was about an hour 1/2 away from our home. While I was at work (his normal shift is sort of weird..mix of nights and days - week days and weekends) and he was off he would drive up to where she was staying (with HER husband) and they'd drive around for a 1/2 hour until she had to get back before her husband discovered she was gone. They couldn't really go anywhere or do anything at these times because 1. their window of time was short & 2. there were many other people that worked at these plants also staying around where she and her husband were) Then my WH would drive back home and co exist 'happily' with me. They had one time where they went to a hotel for a few hours that she could be away unmissed by her husband...the oral sex...he couldn't quite get up to the task of the whole deal, but didn't interrupt it as guilt or anything. LOTS of texting, late night phone calls while I was asleep, more driving an hour 1/2 each way for their quick meetings of 1/2 hourish. non sexual according to him...then the coup de grais - he called off a night shift and they went to a B& B (her husband was working night shift so he didn't know). He again had a hard time doing the deed, but since there was a whole night to work at it, he eventually got the job done. They had to leave there at like 4am so she could get back before her husband did and so he could get back home at the time he'd normally arrive so I wouldn't know...karma's a ***** and when he dropped her off where she was staying his car died!! (car wasn't old or have anything wrong with it - I think it just was the only thing protesting the wrongness of what he was doing!) So he had to call a tow truck to tow him all the way home. The very next night was when I found out - the fact that his car was at the shop during the day caused him to not be able to drive up to see her so their fun at the B&B was the last they saw of each other.

Honestly, since the bulk of the time I actually wasn't seeing him, I didn't see anything - one time i picked up his phone to take a picture and it was locked which was unusual, but when I asked him why he said it was because he had to share a locker with someone else while at the other plant - okay - plausible and with I really had no reason not to trust that) 
when he was done that job and back home - he was actually pleasant and normal - normal in the fact that he had (i thought) just been working a whooole lot and it's a very stressful job and I was being my normal, supportive self and letting him go about his days as he would after any extra long stressful time at work. I am usually very intuitive so I have no doubt that if i had seen him at all in the beginning I would have seen something...or enough little things to start putting it together. 

As far as my gut - do you mean as to the sincerity of his remorse and all he's doing now? My gut is i 100% believe it. My gut as to is it over - is 99.99% yes - that .01% is only because his text to her that he "couldn't do this to my family" was sent and then deleted so I didn't actually see it. I am monitoring (less obsessively now) phone, email, bank - everything. And haven't uncovered anything - he is not blocking me from doing that or complaining that I am. He's open with everything. So either I am to believe it's over and there truly has been no contact since d day or I've forced him to contact her in some other way i haven't uncovered...but...I could be in the CIA at this point in how deep I've delved...so I think he's honestly not in contact in any way.


----------



## kat24 (May 10, 2014)

sorry - hard to get all the details in every post! he is back home now, the time of his face making me want to scream had passed and our dr as well as all the books we had read (dr recommended) would say that once you were past that initial shock, let some time apart happen and then the best way to work on things was to actually work on them together - co existing. 
I do believe he loves me - the way his mind had been working prior to the affair was keeping him from seeing what real love is actually all about - once the veil lifted and through counseling he now understands he always had love and was being shown love and that he never truly appreciated all that he had and hadn't always been the husband I deserved...I do believe his sincerity in these things. He is working daily on showing me love, respect and appreciation. The days now that I am having trouble are more from my head not from what he is showing me. He is doing the things a wife needs after an affair - i just can't tell when I'll be okay - will there ever be enough remorse, repentance for me to have the future with him that I want? I am worth the efforts he is making and he is worth it to me as well..we are worth it.


----------



## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

It needs to be mandatory her husband knows. And that you have proof of it.

Also, this betrayal may be over, but the next one isn't. 

There is a true saying, "once a betrayer, always a betrayer". People are either the type that betray for various reasons (problem solving, for fun, because they can...) or they aren't the betraying type. He is and always will be. You need to accept that if you are going to stay with him. Also, as he will tell you, the second time he betrayed with her, the easier it was. By the third time he could fully justify it. The next time will be even easier. 

Please don't misunderstsnd me. He may not, in fact, betray again. But he has proven it his personality to do so and that remains forever.


----------



## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Kat,

About 5 years ago, I was exactly where you are 6 months in. In fact my first post was just about 6 months from DD.

Short version... At DD married 30 years, catch my wife in an EAPA with college BF. Over next week or so, discover she had been cheating over the last 6+ year with multiple AP. 

What you are going through as the BS is par-for-course for anyone attempting R with cheating spouse. My C called it "Riding the Fence". I did it for almost a year. It is your primary coping mechanism. Those of us who attempt R, we all do it. The truth is you can forgive him, but you will always keep the memory of his betrayal close. As months grind into years and his faithfulness is shown the sting will lesson. But... you will always "look over your shoulder" in some way. Not to say you can't reclaim happiness in your marriage, it will just be different. 

Your Love/Hate emotions are in direct conflict with reality of Marriage. I know personally, "It's hard abandon a Life Time of Memories". You look across the room at your spouse and wonder if your entire marriage has just been a cheap Façade. As you said, "Who are you?". I screamed those same words. I learned things about my cheating wife in 1 hour... that the previous 30 years never showed, sad. 

To the point. Will you make it?

Notice I wrote You, not y'all. It really is yours and only your decision. 

First the contingencies, if you haven't you need to ASAP. They need to be written, posted, added to, amended, and revised weekly. This is the hard cold facts of a Betrayed Marriage. The trust is no more. You need to come to terms that the previous Vows were a binding contract that your husband tore up and scattered to the wind. If he is willing to show remorse, repent, and honor you, forever more, then a New Agreement needs to be drafted.

A short list, you make your own, but these 3 are mandatory. 

1) You reserve the right at anytime to say "No More"... I'm leaving. That is your RIGHT. He forfeited all say in the matter. He needs to know this is not a threat, just the way it is.

2) Henceforth LIES are a divorceable offense. 

3) Any backsliding... secret email FB, phone calls, secret lunch dates, anything that resembles an affair, you are gone. In short NO Female friends, sounds childish until you have been cheated on.

Last... If you read here enough you will see a common thread that seems to be repeated over and over by all BS that come to find CWI. We want to believe that our Cheating Spouse had been forth coming on all the details and has truly as they all say... "I have told you everything... You know just as much as I... There is nothing left to tell." Well... this is rarely the case. You will probably never get the whole story.

Now hear a truth, the details when attempting R, have an expiration date. It will be damn near impossible to go there as the months to years pass by.


----------



## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

kat24 said:


> Anyway. During the time they were working together they would sneak off and make out - once that job was over she was working at a different place but it was about an hour 1/2 away from our home. While I was at work (his normal shift is sort of weird..mix of nights and days - week days and weekends) and he was off he would drive up to where she was staying (with HER husband) and they'd drive around for a 1/2 hour until she had to get back before her husband discovered she was gone. They couldn't really go anywhere or do anything at these times because 1. their window of time was short & 2. there were many other people that worked at these plants also staying around where she and her husband were) Then my WH would drive back home and co exist 'happily' with me. They had one time where they went to a hotel for a few hours that she could be away unmissed by her husband...the oral sex...he couldn't quite get up to the task of the whole deal, but didn't interrupt it as guilt or anything. LOTS of texting, late night phone calls while I was asleep, more driving an hour 1/2 each way for their quick meetings of 1/2 hourish. non sexual according to him...then the coup de grais - he called off a night shift and they went to a B& B (her husband was working night shift so he didn't know). He again had a hard time doing the deed, but since there was a whole night to work at it, he eventually got the job done. They had to leave there at like 4am so she could get back before her husband did and so he could get back home at the time he'd normally arrive so I wouldn't know...karma's a ***** and when he dropped her off where she was staying his car died!! (car wasn't old or have anything wrong with it - I think it just was the only thing protesting the wrongness of what he was doing!) So he had to call a tow truck to tow him all the way home. The very next night was when I found out - the fact that his car was at the shop during the day caused him to not be able to drive up to see her so their fun at the B&B was the last they saw of each other.


The part in red has a chance of being lies of about 90%. See the many trickle truth stories on CWI.

The details about him having difficulty with keeping him up is pathetic. He is lying to you.


----------



## ReidWright (May 15, 2014)

See_Listen_Love said:


> The part in red has a chance of being lies of about 90%. See the many trickle truth stories on CWI.
> 
> The details about him having difficulty with keeping him up is pathetic. He is lying to you.


yep, "We only had sex once! and it was awful!" Cheater story 101


----------



## kat24 (May 10, 2014)

RWB - I have been reading posts on here for most of these last 6 months and see so many people with longer times of the affair, children from the affair, multiple affairs, etc - I can only imagine how much harder those things would be to deal with - every story is different but boils down to unimaginable pain. I am sorry you went through what you went through. No one should have to deal with these things, and I am so amazed at how many people are. 

I have stated contingencies - NO contact ever with her in any form. I'm gone. 

If there were to be a baby as a result of this. I'm gone (i know some people do live with this and I give them credit, but it was a deal breaker for me) - that we know is not the case by this amount of time that has passed - I fully believe if she were she would have tried to contact him if she were. 

If another affair were to ever happen with anyone. I'm gone. 

Thank you for the suggestions of the other things. I feel as those we pretty much have talked about the 3 points you bring up - I just didn't follow them up to him with 'i'm gone' but I may now! 

a few months in to our R he came to me and said he had been withholding some details - 'to not hurt me any further' blahblah blah...and he then shared those things with me...(which our dr told him afterwards was once again, him thinking of himself first once again - but i did want to know all the details soooo )went as expected and he knows that set me back, but have been moving forward slowly since then. I think I basically have all the info I will get - they had no real relationship - they knew nothing of each other - no personal conversations were ever had...normal questions any one would ask a person they were getting to know, even as a friend were never asked. I am a talker and an analyzer and am just astounded by how little content was actually in all the 1000s of text and hours of phone calls. when I do ask what then they actually did talk about - other than sex, there's nothing - it's infuriating. You did all this with someone - threw 'us' away for a total stranger. just someone that you knew would give you the attention in the exact way you thought I should be doing it. the biggest thing he says is she made him feel like she desired him and she told him he was sexy and hot. which, of course were things that happened often in our marriage, I just didn't say them in the exact words he was thinking he needed to hear. There's a lot of low self esteem going on, but the kind where the person always presents as super confident, but internally is not. 

how are things for you now that you are 5 years passed?


----------



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

kat24 said:


> My question to you all is this - how is it that I want so desperately to stay with the man I love, but I don't want to live with someone that would do the things he did.
> 
> 
> ...is that what I want for the rest of my life?!



Ah, another unfortunate soul that has hit the same wall as I have. I call this the ultimate Prisoner's Dilemma. Don't want a divorce, can't live with adultery. Yet (dang it to heck) you have to choose one.

How on earth can a decision like this be a part of a marriage?


One thing is for sure. Unless he is in total commitment mode and right now, it will be next to impossible. In his world --he hasn't even really had time to make us his mind. The mind of a selfish cheater is different in a big way. They see themselves first, with everyone else standing behind them.


----------



## kat24 (May 10, 2014)

Forest, sorry you are dealing with this as well. How far in to it are you? He is in total commitment mode and doing the right things...just doesn't change what he did during the affair...whether he was in a crazy frame of mind or not. I know that the attention he was given during the affair was like an addiction - the more she told him how 'hot' he was the more he wanted to hear it. His mind may have been off kilter during that time, but it was still him. Now my mind is a mess and I don't know who 'I' am or who I will be in the future. Before this, if you had asked me if I'd stay with someone that cheated on me I'd have said a resounding NOOOO! you just never know until you are actually faced with it. 
how are you doing?


----------



## cj9947 (Jul 9, 2011)

Kat24,
Please read a book about codependency. Rule of thumb - where you find a narcissist you will find a codependent. You have no hope of success without addressing why you find this type of person worthy of your love.


----------



## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

It appears to me that he has not told you everything.

It takes a lot of commitment to go after another man's wife while married. And he appeared to had been very committed. 

You need to expose to the other woman's husband. He has a right to know. Better if it came from your husband (if he is truly remorseful).


----------



## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

kat24 said:


> How are things for you now that you are 5 years passed?


DD was Aug 5, 2009...

Overall, very good. 4 years ago I was a mess. Wonder I didn't get fired from my job. For over a year, I couldn't sleep all night in the same bed. I would lay awake and stare at the ceiling, finally retreating to a couch or a spare room. While shocked to the core initially, I wasn't totally surprised; I had suspected for years something going on, even did a few soft confronts. Nothing but lies. The pre-meditated calculated lies is still something I have a hard time with. 

Now we don't bring it up at all. We did years of IC and MC. It was a safe place to vent, kind of like CWI. She still has a hard time with it. It shamed her to the core, disappointing her parents, children, me. Disappoint is a mild word, she was slammed to the floor, stripped of any dignity, almost lost her children and me forever. Our grown daughter would not even talk with her much less see her for the better part of a year. There all grown now, on their own, and have their own issues... My wife says, "I guess they just think Mom was a f--k up. 

Anyway, I still love her. She hurt me bad, but she is still the my closest friend. I guess the years do have a way of dulling the pain. 



kat24 said:


> Before this, if you had asked me if I'd stay with someone that cheated on me I'd have said a resounding NOOOO! you just never know until you are actually faced with it.


I was never asked... I said that to her face a dozen time over the years. You are very correct about "Until you are actually faced with it."


----------



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

kat24 said:


> Forest, sorry you are dealing with this as well. How far in to it are you? He is in total commitment mode and doing the right things...just doesn't change what he did during the affair...whether he was in a crazy frame of mind or not. I know that the attention he was given during the affair was like an addiction - the more she told him how 'hot' he was the more he wanted to hear it. His mind may have been off kilter during that time, but it was still him. Now my mind is a mess and I don't know who 'I' am or who I will be in the future. Before this, if you had asked me if I'd stay with someone that cheated on me I'd have said a resounding NOOOO! you just never know until you are actually faced with it.
> how are you doing?


Very caring and kind of you to inquire about another right now.

I've got some similarities, but some differences that make it easier. I found out about 20 years after the affair. She had ended it, and recommitted, yet never came clean. She fell into it based on a bunch of hollow, sophomoric compliments, attention, and pursuit. Very shallow. Compliments and attention seem to be the way to go to get some selfish person to cheat.

I'm doing fair, but only because she is trying hard. Trying to rebuild after someone has done something so stupid and childish is a tall order.

Sounds like our spouses are similar. Nice people who think its OK for them, just because it is. They aren't getting their quota of attention and compliments. They deserve it, you won't care.

This may be horrible advice, but it you want to feel he is really committed, you may have to feel you've broken and destroyed that flawed character trait that lets him feel he deserves those "ego kibbles" of attention and compliments. Show him who he really is. A pretty ordinary person that has used the support of those around him to achieve whatever he's got.

And, good luck to you. Be strong and don't doubt yourself. You're most likely the one that brought the marriage this far. You have the greater insight and sense of responsibility. You should make the decisions right now.


----------



## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

Kat, 

Your story read very well. I capture from your clear and detailed writing, you have had some time to think and write things down clearly. 

I feel through your writing, a sense of calmness. 

I can't determine if this is a hood thing or bad. As well written as everything is, I can't determine if you want to stay with your husband or not. As another poster stated, the decision is totally yours. 

That many years and high school sweethearts is very tough. A friend of mine is married for over twenty years to her high school sweetheart and they are both cheating on each other yet they have been together so long, they're not sure how to be apart. 

If you are the "fixer" in your marriage, I would think you might feel this is another "crazy" and impulsive desicion that needs to be handled and then moved on from. 

I would really hope you can let your husband make the repairs necessary by giving you everything you need in order to heal. Don't be shy, ask or demand anything. 

I read this quickly so I may be missing some points but this other women should be exposed to her husband if she hasn't already. That will definitely clean things up a bit for you. 

I did not expose my husband's other women because there were so many and I was in such shock. I also didn't care as long as some skank wanted to take his cheating self for HERself, they deserved each other. I also didn't want to hurt my husband's family and looking back, that was a mistake too. 

People here will regurgitate a 2-5 year time in order to recover from infidelity. I do not subscribe to these numbers. I think it's life long and never hoes away. Your marriage is scarred forever. 

I am skeptical that this is your husbands first affair. I could be wrong, but I might need to dig into the past as far as I could with credit card statements, phone bills, email accounts, friends, polygraphs.......whatever. 

I can't say this was rug-swept but it may be forgiven too soon, hard to tell on this story. (For me)

You are not a dumb woman, I can tell but don't be too wiling to let this go too soon.


----------



## Pamvhv (Apr 27, 2014)

I'm going through the same thing right now. Six week affair and my husband left. Today is six weeks he's been gone. I wish I had a chance for reconciliation but he isn't amiable to that. He's in 'love' with her.


----------



## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

thatbpguy said:


> It needs to be mandatory her husband knows. And that you have proof of it.
> 
> Also, this betrayal may be over, but the next one isn't.
> 
> ...


I think you have to be careful not to paint everyone with the same brush. There is definitely a saying that suggests that once you see a behavior, you are likely to see it again, but I've also seen people make dramatic changes for the better. Every circumstance, every person and every marriage dynamic is unique in many respects. Yes, there are obvious commonalities but the best course of action for each person given their situation could very well be different.

It could very well be that he made a bad mistake in taking his wife and family for granted, has now realized it, and will never do it again. Those that cheat are acting selfishly and immaturely. Those are character flaws that can be corrected if the person is willing.

As for the other comment about those who betray and those who don't, I'm not sure I'd subscribe to those nice little boxes. I think everyone is capable of it and some are more likely to fall into the trap than others but it's really hard to say that there are no people, who when given the right set of circumstances and issues, wouldn't ever cheat. I'd like to believe my W is one of those people but I just would have no way of really knowing that for sure. Heck, I'm not really even sure that I could make that comment about myself. I'd like to believe that there is nothing that would ever convince me to take that path but you just never know. It's really hard for me to speak of my character and my behaviors in absolute terms. I've surprised and severely disappointed myself before with how I've acted or responded to certain life situations. You think you know yourself and then do something that almost shocks you. 

Anyway, as a person whose also been married a long time, I feel for the OP. She should do what she thinks is best in her heart but proceed cautiously.


----------



## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

I think the problem with cheating husbands is that a lot of them see themselves somehow entitled to having the affair.

To keep the wives calm, they deny, downplay, ignore the affair. Wives often cannot breakthrough that barrier, and keep in the situation is a mood of despair. The husband seems to be able to continue his life, and his way of doing.

It is a genetic and cultural thing. I do not know what exactly to advise to get a change of heart with such a man.


----------



## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

My H wasn't home when I found out, and I was in shock and wondered, "who IS this person??" Pretty much like your asking your H, "WHO ARE YOU?" It's like a podperson has taken over.

As for the conflicting feelings, you didn't say which books you've read. I think Shirley Glass' book NOT Just Friends explains those feelings very well (even though the title may not sound like it would - her son is a famous radio personality and the title is derived from a quote of his). She's generally considered the preeminent expert in the field of infidelity, and this book describes the trauma and grief that we go through. But as a counselor who helped many marriages survive infidelity before she passed away, she also understood that many people do want to reconcile despite this terrible wound to us (the betrayed spouse) and to the marriage.

Another very good book is How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair by Linda MacDonald, another experienced marriage counselor who works with couples affected by infidelity. A very short, easy to read book, it helps the unfaithful partner to "get it." Most of them don't, really. I highlighted parts I particularly wanted my H to read and then gave it to him. It jump-started my healing process because my H got much better at helping me after reading this one.

I'm over a year into this. MC is essential, his apologizing often is too. Talking about it and not holding it in when you're triggering is also important. It's up to you, but you may want to coach him to bring it up sometimes too, so you don't always have to be the one to do it - since you're thinking about it daily anyway, you might ask him to check on how you you're doing, like: "how are you feeling today - are you triggering? anything I can do to help?" - that sort of thing. So he can proactively help you to heal.

Take care. Sorry you joined the club. Wish you weren't in it.


----------



## kat24 (May 10, 2014)

RWB - it does sound like we have some similarities. My husband has expressed a great deal of shame and disgust at his actions. Doesn't make anything better for me, but I do believe his sincerity. 

I am a talker - a sharer - Immediately upon discovery i was talking with family members and friends. Each one had the same initial reaction - of disbelief. Ours was the marriage they looked to and said was a strong loving one. Literally as he was telling me he was leaving me, I was texting my sister, she said later she kept looking at her phone thinking she was seeing the name of the person texting wrong. That it couldn't possibly be me. He never told me not to tell people - told me to do whatever it was that I needed to. He didn't feel he should be protected in any way.
He called his siblings himself(parents have have been gone for years)and a few friends. 

After I spoke with those in my family that I chose to he called them himself and spoke with them, apologizing wholeheartedly. My parents weren't given the details, other than the fact that I had asked him to leave the house and he did. They got the gist though. He, in person, apologized to them and spoke of his total commitment to reconciling and to be the husband I always deserved. He was told by all my family that they loved him and always considered him a brother and son, but they were most disappointed...obviously. That hurt him and helped him.

Our adult daughter would not speak to him for quite some time. Our adult son was a bit more receptive and actually hugged him after he told him what he had done - that was one of the things I said he had to do - tell our children himself. At the time both of the kids were still living at home - they both went and stayed with other people for several days, our daughter stating she would not come back home until he was gone from the house. They have since worked through a lot of things. Both of the kids stated that they felt this was our situation to work through and didn't give their opinions, just wanted to give me time to figure out what I wanted. 

They grew up seeing all the narcissistic behavior, but like me, always thought of it as just dad, not something wrong. My daughter now in fact recognizes and is working on similarities she sees in herself to him. 
I am glad that you and your wife are doing well - It also makes me hopeful for my our relationship.


----------



## kat24 (May 10, 2014)

Forrest - big similarities - you are right! I have told him over and over that the things he is doing now are the only things keeping me here trying. If he weren't - it would be done. He gets frustrated on my bad days sometimes when what he is doing just doesn't seem good enough - not my words - his. I continue to say they are, it's not what he is doing and saying now that i am struggling with. 

The affair is dead in him mind - immediately broke off contact - doesn't think of her, or miss what was happening. He expresses that his only thoughts are of working on himself, our marriage and being the husband I always deserved. BUT - of course for me - the affair it foremost in my mind. So, we struggle. 

I know it's time and hard work that will form our future. Some days I am just pretty tired of it all. 

"Sounds like our spouses are similar. Nice people who think its OK for them, just because it is. They aren't getting their quota of attention and compliments. They deserve it, you won't care."
OH YEA!! each and every thing he did and said during his affair would have been sooooooooo unacceptable if it were me. 

Definitely through therapy he is finding out that no person 'deserves' these things and that no one else is responsible for your happiness and self esteem. Over the years before the affair, i had told him these things over and over. Said we needed therapy, he needed therapy, but he refused, I wish to heck I had just went on my own. At his very first session with our doctor his flawed thinking became perfectly clear -and he accepted it and dove right in to changing. It's a process...he still occasionally has trouble seeing that he is having 'me' thoughts, but you can't change a lifetime of a thought process over night. I work on how I deal with him as well. I can't go back to the old me or be scared of his reaction when I disagree with him. 
We really have yet to be tested in any real world situations because the affair IS the only issue right now. Again, time will tell.

I do have a pretty strong self confidence and self esteem. Always have so this hasn't shaken that - I know that it was me that kept us from imploding for all these years, and he does as well. You certainly hit that nail on the head! I didn't always do things right and wasn't always right about everything, but i kept the train from derailing quite often.


----------



## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

kat24 said:


> *The affair is dead in him mind* - immediately broke off contact - doesn't think of her, or miss what was happening. He expresses that his only thoughts are of working on himself, our marriage and being the husband I always deserved. BUT - of course for me - the affair it foremost in my mind. So, we struggle.


Kat,

My wife when caught was exactly the same. _"immediately broke off contact - doesn't think of (HIM), or miss what was happening". _ To be honest, this was really strange to me (a first). What I mean, just hours before she was texting and emailing her AP, both professing their love for each other. They were discussing how horrible their marriages were and planning divorce to re-marry. Once again... _"Who are You?" _



kat24 said:


> Definitely through therapy he is finding out that* no person 'deserves' these things and that no one else is responsible for your happiness and self esteem.*


Hard pill to swallow... 

Remember sitting in MC with her and our C looks at wife and says he (me) is not responsible for your happiness. The underlying character traits, vanity, selfishness, low esteem were all exposed. The problem was she had been an expert at hiding them from everyone, even me... they were always there just hidden with from view with her giving, bubbly, caring, hard working 2nd personality. 

See the point, One fed the Other, what she really wanted was to be *acknowledged* as the prettiest, the best, the one everyone looked at and said good girl. The behavior was righteous... the motives all wrong.


----------



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

Mostlycontent said:


> I think you have to be careful not to paint everyone with the same brush. There is definitely a saying that suggests that once you see a behavior, you are likely to see it again, but I've also seen people make dramatic changes for the better. Every circumstance, every person and every marriage dynamic is unique in many respects. Yes, there are obvious commonalities but the best course of action for each person given their situation could very well be different.
> 
> It could very well be that he made a bad mistake in taking his wife and family for granted, has now realized it, and will never do it again. Those that cheat are acting selfishly and immaturely. Those are character flaws that can be corrected if the person is willing.
> 
> ...


I fully agree with this. I'd only add that right now you have to dig a bit. Don't let him trickle truth you.

As for the advice to out the affair to her husband, think carefully about that. The only gain there for you is to maybe kill the affair if it is still going on. The downside is the distinct possibility of destroying another marriage.

Just remember, reconciliation takes two. With a willing partner you have a shot at preserving your marriage. There are no guarantees.


----------



## kat24 (May 10, 2014)

RMB - OMG - I've thought that often - how do you spend 6-7 weeks thinking only of this other person, saying i love you to them. texting and talking a ridiculous amount and then snap - you don't think of them again when you see the destruction you brought to your family. He says that he didn't speak of me, other than once to say that he felt I didn't love him or desire him, but that I was a good person and mother. He didn't speak with her about ANYTHING really - not our children, his family, hopes, dreams, even stupid things. There was no connection other than her telling him he was hot. I have difficulty with this - faced with the large amounts of text messages and hours of phone calls. He has no answer to WHAT did you talk about - other then planning when they could see each other and obviously there was sexual banter, but no sort of communication that normally does on between two people that were carrying on the way they were. He didn't ask her anything and sounds like she didn't of him either - I've asked, didn't that seem odd but he was merely overlooking everything so he could continue to get his ego boost. I know the reality is that he truly didn't love her or her him which is good, but also - you threw us away for that?!?!?! Every bit of it has a double edge. After he broke it off with her, she didn't try at all to contact him. I asked him if that bothered him - that he obviously didn't mean any more to her than she did to him. He answered that he doesn't care what she thinks or feels now his sole concern is me. Good answer, but the whole thing still is hard to understand - as the faithful partner that is. The "hows" are tough to deal with and i guess the reality is there will never be an answer that will make me satisfied because they all hurt - 
'I didn't think of you' 
'I was only thinking of myself'
'I felt like I deserved to get the things I didn't feel you were giving to me'
yadda yadda yadda

Our C says the same things...that it was not real and that it was EXACTLY what you state...the constant boost to his self esteem was a drug. She also repeatedly tells him no one else is responsible for his happiness and self worth but himself. I think he's slowly believing it, but doesn't know how he can possibly be happy with himself with what he's done. He says none of it was about her just how she made him feel about himself. How all the things he thought he wasn't getting from me he in fact was just not in the exact ways, words that he thought meant those things. He also would continuously put me to tests I didn't know I was taking - all throughout our marriage - and when i was unwittingly failing the test, I would then be subjected to his silence for days on end. Which obviously had the opposite effect that he wanted...i would move away instead of coming closer to him. He sees it all so clearly now. Too late? I don't know. He's trying so hard. I'm trying as well..still can't look back at the past and not think it was a lie, can't look ahead to the future because I'm scared of this new life. 

You seem to have a great grasp on it all and I so appreciate your willingness to share. it gives me hope


----------



## kat24 (May 10, 2014)

MostlyContent - thank you for posting that. All of our stories are our own and can't be lumped together. I do believe people can change. Especially in my case where once my H was shown the flaws in his thinking, he immediately was wanting to change his thought process and is continuing to do so. No one likes to be told they are wrong in their thinking - especially when it's how you've thought your entire adult life, but he took it all in and could connect the dots of his childhood to the forming of some of the beliefs he had. I don't feel that anything makes what he did right - not one tiny bit and I never will, but i 'get' how those things contributed to it. He still made his choices and is aware that he alone is to blame. Sometimes that's the hardest to swallow - he chose to do these things. There was no getting swept up in it - he chose to - he may have gotten swept up in the self esteem boost, but the initial choice to start the affair was his.


----------



## kat24 (May 10, 2014)

RUGS - your reply brought tears to my eyes. I have always been a person of words - I like to write. I love to read. and song lyrics have always been dear to me. Family, friends and our doctor have said numerous times about my calmness. I am a calm person by natural and the screaming banshee that now resides inside me is foreign. I don't know how to control her. I don't like her, but as time goes by she appears less - albeit not far from escape! 

I do very much want to stay, just having difficulty with the fact that I want to. Does that make sense?! What he's done goes against everything I believe in and always held dear. I am in conflict with myself sometimes. 

I have always been the fixer - maybe more the smoother - but no worries, I don't think I could move forward any quicker even if I wanted to!

The issue with exposing the OW to her husband is work related. They both work for a company that my husbands company contracts with. They do not even live in our state - they travel around the country to other plants when extra manpower is needed. Were what happened to be exposed and something get to work, there very well could be problems. Honestly, the way things all went down - i have no doubt this wasn't her first or last time doing this sort of thing. I am sorry for her husband, but i am more worried about myself. At one counseling session my husband said that he wanted to apologize to her husband and the dr told him - NO WAY - she said that it was only something my H wanted to do to relieve his guilt. He had NO idea how her husband would receive such news. 
I sort of feel her husband knew something (again don't think this was her first time) Because of the whole work schedule when they could only see each other for a 1/2 hour at a time once their job at the same plant was over and her husband was always texting her asking where she was and why her 'smoke break' was taking so long. so, yea, I think he's been down that road numerous times.

I do think it was his first - all his irrational thinking was building and building til it got to this. If this wasn't what happened I have no doubt our relationship would have imploded in some other way. 

I definitely am not rug sweeping - totally the opposite maybe. Forgiveness isn't even something I can wrap my mind around right now. Maybe someday, but i can't say it'll be total and complete forgiveness.


----------



## kat24 (May 10, 2014)

sidney2718 - Thank you for your response - i feel as though I probably have gotten all the info that I will - doesn't stop me from continuing to ask and believe me, I am a digger. 

I do not intend to contact her husband. There are work complications that would make that not a good situation. I detail it above. 

I definitely have a willing partner in the reconciliation. Just need to figure myself out! And know that it is possible to move forward and not have your head drive you crazy!! 
I'd love to be that happy person again that I used to be, but she's probably gone and a new me is forming. Sometimes I don't like her a lot


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Great. So Dr No thinks it is perfectly acceptable for OW's husband to be exposed to the dangers of STDs, etc?

She has no duty of care to him, so couldn't give a rat's bottom about him. Sadly.


----------



## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

kat24 said:


> MostlyContent - thank you for posting that. All of our stories are our own and can't be lumped together. I do believe people can change. Especially in my case where once my H was shown the flaws in his thinking, he immediately was wanting to change his thought process and is continuing to do so. No one likes to be told they are wrong in their thinking - especially when it's how you've thought your entire adult life, but he took it all in and could connect the dots of his childhood to the forming of some of the beliefs he had. I don't feel that anything makes what he did right - not one tiny bit and I never will, but i 'get' how those things contributed to it. He still made his choices and is aware that he alone is to blame. Sometimes that's the hardest to swallow - he chose to do these things. There was no getting swept up in it - he chose to - he may have gotten swept up in the self esteem boost, but the initial choice to start the affair was his.



I hadn't really considered this angle as it's usually women that get stereotyped as being swept up with compliments and the like, but I do remember a girl I dated shortly after college that was a very complimentary sort.

We weren't particularly compatible but I do remember really liking how complimentary she was of me. Honestly, not many woman are like that. Usually, and again I know I'm stereotyping a bit, it's the men who compliment the women and tell them how nice they look or how beautiful they are. In this case, it was her who was saying those things to me. I must admit that it kept me with her longer than I would have normally seen someone with whom I was not compatible, but it was, I suppose, kind of intoxicating.

As it relates to my marriage, I have told my W that I like to hear compliments from time to time if she's thinking them. My W is not a very verbal type but I tell her that if you're thinking that I look really sexy or hot, then tell me. What good does it do to think something nice or positive about a person that would make them feel good and then not say it to them. That makes no sense to me. So I've been able to use something that I learned about myself years ago to better the relationship I have now.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

D day for us was in March 2010, and we've had a rough road, but all in all things are pretty good today. You can read the very long version through the link in my sig if you like. But I totally get what you mean by you want to stay but you don't know why you want to stay.


----------



## kat24 (May 10, 2014)

Matt - since all std tests on our end came back negative, I'm not worried about her husband in that manner. If that were not that case & there was a positive for something I would have contacted him (not her). His wife did this to him as my husband did it to me. What happens to her marriage is her problem in my opinion. As I said, they don't live in the same state and only work in the same plant as my husband maybe one month a year. if that. I have far too much to worry about in regards to myself then to worry about a man that probably knows perfectly well what his wife was, has been prior to my H, and probably still with other men, is up to. She told my H she had a '3 to 5 year plan to get out of her marriage'. Oddly my H never asked her what that meant, but since his part in her plan fell through I can only assume she's latched on to another idiot to fulfill her plan. 
Our doctors concern is us and what a revelation that would impact my H's job would cause for US.


----------



## kat24 (May 10, 2014)

Hope1964 - do you still feel that way 4 years later?? That you don't know why you want to stay?


----------



## kat24 (May 10, 2014)

MostlyContent - now that I know more about narcissistic tendencies, it makes perfect sense. I myself, don't particularly need those types of reassurances and sorta don't 'get' it. so I'm sure the fact that I really didn't do it much because it seemed foreign to me, didn't help his poor self esteem - which ANYONE that knows him would never have expected - he always portrayed a very confident, even ****y persona. 

As we continue on this journey, more and more and MORE childhood dysfunction is coming to light - sometimes it seems like he's sabotaging himself in our recovery. It's like, his mom abandoned him for no reason when he was 11 and he's trying to test my love and see how many reasons I need til I leave. I asked him this. He said he didn't think so, but...definitely something he will be talking with the dr about tomorrow.

I have great difficulty now saying the nice things even more! It feels forced. It feels like just doing what the OW did. It feels like I am giving credence to one of the things he said made him chose to do what he did. Does that make sense?


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

R is a very hard road. A roller coaster ride. It usually takes several years to start to feel comfortable. You never trust the cheater the way you once did. And triggers can last a long time. But many R's succeed and a better marriage can happen. Just remember it's not a quick process.


----------



## kat24 (May 10, 2014)

OHHHH boy do I know that. It's hard to imagine that it's even possible. I read that it is, the dr has such hope in us, i want it to work, but...... insert every mixed up conflicting feeling you've had about the idea here!
Today's been a good day, which sometimes makes me hesitate coming on here and starting to think about things, but I feel a small victory that reading here, now has not sent me downward. progress?


----------



## kat24 (May 10, 2014)

Pamvhv - I am very sorry you are going through this. It's not easy no matter what the situation. I wish that things were different for you. I hope you have a great support system that is helping you through the loss.


----------



## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Kat,

As you know I coming up on close to 5 years in R with my fww. The back an forth feeling of relief and despair are exactly where they should be. This roller-coaster of emotions... all that proceed with R... ride. 

I know it sounds counter-productive, but now is the time to not ignore the 800lb gorilla hiding in the corner. Confront your husband with your questions, your fears... seek the answers that are off limits. I know, even some MC will say "this will set you back", but in reality this is the time to "fish or cut bait". 

Hear a truth... At some point, hopefully sooner than later, every married couple that is willing to attempt R in the face of unfaithfulness will get to this point. It is inevitable.


----------



## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey Kat-----you have not taken this far enuff----and your counselor is making herself look good by telling you how wonderful everything is

Lets get to some reality here--------------look you have to understand---your H, went with another woman, basically at the drop of a hat---he knew there was 20+ yrs invested in a good mge, he knew that you were a devoted/good/sincere/loving wife---if there are kids---he knew they were also part of the family----yet what did he do----he connived/planned/manipulated/lied, outwardly, and by omission---------and HE HAD NO PROBLEM DOING ANY OF IT

OK---so he has been outed--------BUT----how are you really doing and where is this really going

You have decided to R---it is what you want, so that is where you are at----BUT YOU HAVE DONE NOTHING MORE THAN BASICALLY ALLOW HIM BACK INTO HIS CUSHY PRE-A. LIFESTYLE----yes you have given him the lip service---NC, some transparency, counseling----I don't read where anything more has really been done----AM I RIGHT??????

So what have you really done to bring about accountability, and let him know you are deadly serious--------there has to be more, from you, and not in the form of words---there has to be actions on your part-----WHY---you ask---------BECAUSE IF THIS IS ALL YOU ARE GONNA HIT HIM WITH, he knows he can cheat again---cuz he knows what the outcome will be---it may not be for a few years----but if it happens---I promise you---he has leaned a lesson, on how to MAKE SURE HE WILL NOT BE CAUGHT NEXT TIME, and now he knows how you will react to his cheating!!!!!

You need to throw in some definite actionable consequences----NOW----such as a POST--NUP---WITH A DURESS CLAUSE, BASED AT ABOUT AN 80-20 SPLIT IN YOUR FAVOR----you need to remove him from the marital bedroom, for a period of time---and all his clothes go with him---into some small room in your home----you need to remove physical contact with him for a period of time-----you need to make sure he knows---THAT YOU ARE RUNNING THE SHOW FOR NOW---and you will tolerate NO argument/discussion, about anything you do or require him to do---as long as none of it is abusive to him----he needs to physically help you thru your pain, when you trigger----that is the only contact he is allowed to have with you at this point

You have stated if he cheats again---you will be gone-----he is getting his 2nd chance----but he knows you-----so then comes the question---when you laid down edicts in the past----DID YOU CARRY THEM OUT---if he knows you did not---he will cheat again---if he finds someone down the line who turns him on, and if he thinks he can get away with it

Have you contacted his lovers H, and told him what happened---that needs to be done----Did you see/watch a NC letter or e-mail go out------------your H may not be in contact with his lover---but know this---if he was deeply into her----HIS EMOTIONS AS TO HER DO NOT TURN OFF COLD TURKEY, so she may very well be still in his mind, and heart---that is just the way it is---for we are nothing more than frail humans, and who knows what runs our show

As to you----you may forgive---but your sub--conscious may never allow you to forget---its just the way it is----and in the due course of time, what he has done will come back again, and again---especially when you are retired from work---and have lots of time on your hands----you do a lot of thinking----and the thoughts of what he has done to you will return

I have bugged you enuff---good luck to you, and I hope you will eventually see the sun as it shines in the sky again, as you did when your days were carefree---be strong


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

kat24 said:


> Hope1964 - do you still feel that way 4 years later?? That you don't know why you want to stay?


Thankfully no


----------

