# Does he really love me and even if so...



## NotSure74 (May 26, 2020)

Can someone please tell me if you know personally or of another male friend who may have been in a way that I have and am personally experiencing from my husband? This is what it is in a nutshell: I have been emotionally abused by my spouse for over 10 years in various ways. A few years ago I just got tired and finally started speaking up. So, some things he didn't do anymore and some things he continued to do. I think because of my childhood and manipulation by multiple people throughout my life and being a people pleaser; I just kept staying (I'm still here today). He has been an alcoholic - I don't see how it stopped but he hasn't been drinking as much.
He has mistreated our 15 year old daughter in similar ways as me over a 2 year period. I would speak up but it would continue if I fell asleep or sometimes I just got tired and wouldn't say something every single time, although I did speak up quite a lot because she is my daughter. Our son is younger and he only really mistreated him when he was mad at me and the extent was ignoring him and getting aggravated with him. One time he did threaten to slap him in front of his family but I told him I'd slap him if he laid a hand on my son. -----Okay so he had a drunken tantrum and I left with the kids. My son and I came back after 3 days because my husband kept texting me and calling me and I felt physically sick and torn and at the same time like a horrible mother to my daughter because she stayed at my moms while I went home. We did some pastoral counseling in which the pastor basically said forgive him, accept him, go to al-anon meetings and make it work. Well, while doing this I was realizing I didn't want to make it work anymore. I had checked out a long time ago, just so numb. I finally started telling him I wanted to separate and he'd say no and we'd keep going on. Then I said I want to leave, I don't love you like I should love you or like a wife should love a husband and boom, again I sat on our bed like what did I start out saying and I'm still here. The other day we talked again and he is like no we need to stay together. Yes, I manipulated you, I have recently and I probably still do but we are a family and we should be together. He told me I have everything I could ever want, that he is so sorry for everything over all these years but he loves me. He asked me how could I want to leave and do that to my kids especially our son, that what is wrong with me, etc. I asked him if he really wanted to live in a loveless marriage and he said yes and we do not have to be intimate as long as I stay. He also said he won't make it through. He went to my daughter a couple of days ago and asked her what they could do together to spend time together because if I see that then that will make me happy. Like I said he has not treated my daughter the best (our daughter sorry). He bribes the kids to get them to do what he wants...sing, perform, play sports, etc. 

Questions: Do you think he really loves me?
Do you think he's trying to save face so his family doesn't know he's gotten a divorce (that he has it all together)?
Is he really not smart? 

He has sent me pics of us two these past two days and says see we were happy once. In one pic I was buzzed and you can totally tell. In the other we had mask on in a drive through, I was giving the peace sign...my crows feet weren't extensive so I wasn't smiling.


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## Johnny Mac (Feb 2, 2021)

NotSure74 said:


> Can someone please tell me if you know personally or of another male friend who may have been in a way that I have and am personally experiencing from my husband? This is what it is in a nutshell: I have been emotionally abused by my spouse for over 10 years in various ways. A few years ago I just got tired and finally started speaking up. So, some things he didn't do anymore and some things he continued to do. I think because of my childhood and manipulation by multiple people throughout my life and being a people pleaser; I just kept staying (I'm still here today). He has been an alcoholic - I don't see how it stopped but he hasn't been drinking as much.
> He has mistreated our 15 year old daughter in similar ways as me over a 2 year period. I would speak up but it would continue if I fell asleep or sometimes I just got tired and wouldn't say something every single time, although I did speak up quite a lot because she is my daughter. Our son is younger and he only really mistreated him when he was mad at me and the extent was ignoring him and getting aggravated with him. One time he did threaten to slap him in front of his family but I told him I'd slap him if he laid a hand on my son. -----Okay so he had a drunken tantrum and I left with the kids. My son and I came back after 3 days because my husband kept texting me and calling me and I felt physically sick and torn and at the same time like a horrible mother to my daughter because she stayed at my moms while I went home. We did some pastoral counseling in which the pastor basically said forgive him, accept him, go to al-anon meetings and make it work. Well, while doing this I was realizing I didn't want to make it work anymore. I had checked out a long time ago, just so numb. I finally started telling him I wanted to separate and he'd say no and we'd keep going on. Then I said I want to leave, I don't love you like I should love you or like a wife should love a husband and boom, again I sat on our bed like what did I start out saying and I'm still here. The other day we talked again and he is like no we need to stay together. Yes, I manipulated you, I have recently and I probably still do but we are a family and we should be together. He told me I have everything I could ever want, that he is so sorry for everything over all these years but he loves me. He asked me how could I want to leave and do that to my kids especially our son, that what is wrong with me, etc. I asked him if he really wanted to live in a loveless marriage and he said yes and we do not have to be intimate as long as I stay. He also said he won't make it through. He went to my daughter a couple of days ago and asked her what they could do together to spend time together because if I see that then that will make me happy. Like I said he has not treated my daughter the best (our daughter sorry). He bribes the kids to get them to do what he wants...sing, perform, play sports, etc.
> 
> Questions: Do you think he really loves me?
> ...


First of all, any type of abuse is a no no. Second, if he truly loved you then he wouldn’t do the things he does. As a couple we have to come to terms on certain things and meet in the middle if possible. I don’t think you should stay in an abusive relationship. Third, you’re stronger than you think you are, be stronger and move on from this...you sound unhappy....


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

You are in the same situation you were in when you posted almost a year ago. First, you are married to an alcoholic. He's drinking less? Nah. He's just better at hiding it. I had a rough childhood. I understand all the stuff about being manipulated. But after awhile it's no longer a reason; it's an excuse. 

You need help. I'd suggest Al-Anon, because whether you realize it or not you are being gravely affected by your husband's lunacy. Yes, LUNACY. You leave. You don't cave when he starts trying to "charm" you back home. You claim he's manipulating you. A hard no to that. Nobody can manipulate you unless you allow it.

Again, counseling, support groups, and a fresh start. If you stay, this is what your life is going to be. Something to consider ...


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

He will make all sorts of promises and break every one. He has stamped out any love you had for him. You do not need his permission to move on. Alcoholism is an awful affliction on a marriage.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

So he wants to spend time with his daughter just so you won't leave and he flat out tells her that? yeah...um...leave and take your kids with you NOW. He is harming all of you with his manipulations and abuse. That is not love, that's control. He has it and he doesn't want to give it up. Oh well for him. 

PS. Your pastor gave you HORRIBLE advice.

Good luck!!!!


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## NotSure74 (May 26, 2020)

aine said:


> He will make all sorts of promises and break every one. He has stamped out any love you had for him. You do not need his permission to move on. Alcoholism is an awful affliction on a marriage.


Thank you for commenting. I am at my moms. I left last Friday. My counselor is saying the same thing,”I don’t need him to agree, I don’t need his permission.” He has been calling and texting. It’s been awful. I’ve been very sick at my stomach and stressed. One of the days he called he was crying like I’ve never heard in our lives together. He says the same things over and over. It basically comes down to “this is not what he wants, he wants his family, it’s the worst feeling to have your wife leave you and take the kids and now the cats” it’s still manipulation- I see it. He says all these things like he sees now what he needs to do to make me happy. I told him he can’t make me happy. Anyway, just a lot of stress this week. When he says/text certain things he doesn’t realize he’s really narrowing his chances of any reconciliation. Sorry for the rant. Have a good night


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Does he love you? And has he been happy with you as a wife? Did you both ever love eachother, how were things in the beginning? 

I hear your concerns, what things has he expressed from his side in terms of his needs being met? 

Sorry you’re in this situation, it’s not easy


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Your daughter will probably need therapy to help her get over what her father and you have done to her.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Well, he is a drunk... what do you expect? Tell him he needs to go to rehab and get cleaned up and maybe, maybe, you might change your mind. But even if you go back to him, he needs to prove he's changed for good.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

NotSure74 said:


> It basically comes down to “this is not what he wants, he wants his family, it’s the worst feeling to have your wife leave you and take the kids and now the cats”


The typical alcoholic whining: It's all about ME ME ME. It's amusing he doesn't address his drinking as a problem; just that he's missing his family. I bet he is. No more audience or enablers. Now he has to live with his own stinkin' thinkin'.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

NotSure74 said:


> Can someone please tell me if you know personally or of another male friend who may have been in a way that I have and am personally experiencing from my husband? This is what it is in a nutshell: I have been emotionally abused by my spouse for over 10 years in various ways. A few years ago I just got tired and finally started speaking up. So, some things he didn't do anymore and some things he continued to do. I think because of my childhood and manipulation by multiple people throughout my life and being a people pleaser; I just kept staying (I'm still here today). He has been an alcoholic - I don't see how it stopped but he hasn't been drinking as much.
> He has mistreated our 15 year old daughter in similar ways as me over a 2 year period. I would speak up but it would continue if I fell asleep or sometimes I just got tired and wouldn't say something every single time, although I did speak up quite a lot because she is my daughter. Our son is younger and he only really mistreated him when he was mad at me and the extent was ignoring him and getting aggravated with him. One time he did threaten to slap him in front of his family but I told him I'd slap him if he laid a hand on my son. -----Okay so he had a drunken tantrum and I left with the kids. My son and I came back after 3 days because my husband kept texting me and calling me and I felt physically sick and torn and at the same time like a horrible mother to my daughter because she stayed at my moms while I went home. We did some pastoral counseling in which the pastor basically said forgive him, accept him, go to al-anon meetings and make it work. Well, while doing this I was realizing I didn't want to make it work anymore. I had checked out a long time ago, just so numb. I finally started telling him I wanted to separate and he'd say no and we'd keep going on. Then I said I want to leave, I don't love you like I should love you or like a wife should love a husband and boom, again I sat on our bed like what did I start out saying and I'm still here. The other day we talked again and he is like no we need to stay together. Yes, I manipulated you, I have recently and I probably still do but we are a family and we should be together. He told me I have everything I could ever want, that he is so sorry for everything over all these years but he loves me. He asked me how could I want to leave and do that to my kids especially our son, that what is wrong with me, etc. I asked him if he really wanted to live in a loveless marriage and he said yes and we do not have to be intimate as long as I stay. He also said he won't make it through. He went to my daughter a couple of days ago and asked her what they could do together to spend time together because if I see that then that will make me happy. Like I said he has not treated my daughter the best (our daughter sorry). He bribes the kids to get them to do what he wants...sing, perform, play sports, etc.
> 
> Questions: Do you think he really loves me?
> ...


He says why would you leave and do that to our son. You say if I stay I'm teaching my son it's OK to treat a girlfriend or wife this way. You are teaching your kids this behavior is acceptable. You staying is hurting your kids more that you leaving will. You know everything he says, every promise, every apology is complete BS.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

You were doing mire damage to your kids than he was. You were showing them they were not important by staying all those times and going back.

My wife despises her mother for the same thing. Her brothers do not have much to do with her mom either. Our kids rarely see their grandmother either. She would use the same excuses....but truth was she would rather stay with an abusive husband than protect her children.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

NotSure74 said:


> it’s the worst feeling to have your wife leave you and take the kids and now the cats” it’s still manipulation- I see it.


Yep. Typical alcoholic thinking.



Prodigal said:


> Now he has to live with his own stinkin' thinkin'.


That's what the friends of Bill W call it. They also call it "dry drunk".... I have a former GF who is a dry drunk.... I say it every day of my life, thank God, I didn't marry her.... she doesn't drink anymore, but her thought processes have remained unchanged for 38 years. She made a train wreck out of her life.....thankfully, not out of mine.... and, it's still somebody else's fault.....


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Does he love you?

I believe so.

Ah, he needs you more than he loves you.

But, who needs that kind of love.
You don't. 

Life is short, don't WASTE any more of your life on an addict. An alcohol addict.

He won't get any better. History and the odds are against this.

Why is it that you must suffer with him? Are you not a free spirit?


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

NotSure74 said:


> Can someone please tell me if you know personally or of another male friend who may have been in a way that I have and am personally experiencing from my husband? This is what it is in a nutshell: I have been emotionally abused by my spouse for over 10 years in various ways. A few years ago I just got tired and finally started speaking up. So, some things he didn't do anymore and some things he continued to do. I think because of my childhood and manipulation by multiple people throughout my life and being a people pleaser; I just kept staying (I'm still here today). He has been an alcoholic - I don't see how it stopped but he hasn't been drinking as much.
> He has mistreated our 15 year old daughter in similar ways as me over a 2 year period. I would speak up but it would continue if I fell asleep or sometimes I just got tired and wouldn't say something every single time, although I did speak up quite a lot because she is my daughter. Our son is younger and he only really mistreated him when he was mad at me and the extent was ignoring him and getting aggravated with him. One time he did threaten to slap him in front of his family but I told him I'd slap him if he laid a hand on my son. -----Okay so he had a drunken tantrum and I left with the kids. My son and I came back after 3 days because my husband kept texting me and calling me and I felt physically sick and torn and at the same time like a horrible mother to my daughter because she stayed at my moms while I went home. We did some pastoral counseling in which the pastor basically said forgive him, accept him, go to al-anon meetings and make it work. Well, while doing this I was realizing I didn't want to make it work anymore. I had checked out a long time ago, just so numb. I finally started telling him I wanted to separate and he'd say no and we'd keep going on. Then I said I want to leave, I don't love you like I should love you or like a wife should love a husband and boom, again I sat on our bed like what did I start out saying and I'm still here. The other day we talked again and he is like no we need to stay together. Yes, I manipulated you, I have recently and I probably still do but we are a family and we should be together. He told me I have everything I could ever want, that he is so sorry for everything over all these years but he loves me. He asked me how could I want to leave and do that to my kids especially our son, that what is wrong with me, etc. I asked him if he really wanted to live in a loveless marriage and he said yes and we do not have to be intimate as long as I stay. He also said he won't make it through. He went to my daughter a couple of days ago and asked her what they could do together to spend time together because if I see that then that will make me happy. Like I said he has not treated my daughter the best (our daughter sorry). He bribes the kids to get them to do what he wants...sing, perform, play sports, etc.
> 
> Questions: Do you think he really loves me?
> ...


So first of all, you're in a better place than you were. You have an understanding of boundaries. It seems your issue is, enforcing those boundaries. If you don't enforce them, you might as well not bother creating boundaries. You need to be consistent and follow through with what you say. Your words and actions HAVE TO MATCH. I can't answer the question about him loving you. 

You keep threatening to leave, but never do. He won't take you seriously. You want to stay, that's one thing, but don't threaten to leave and then don't.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

NotSure74 said:


> Thank you for commenting. I am at my moms. I left last Friday. My counselor is saying the same thing,”I don’t need him to agree, I don’t need his permission.” He has been calling and texting. It’s been awful. I’ve been very sick at my stomach and stressed. One of the days he called he was crying like I’ve never heard in our lives together. He says the same things over and over. It basically comes down to “this is not what he wants, he wants his family, it’s the worst feeling to have your wife leave you and take the kids and now the cats” it’s still manipulation- I see it. He says all these things like he sees now what he needs to do to make me happy. I told him he can’t make me happy. Anyway, just a lot of stress this week. When he says/text certain things he doesn’t realize he’s really narrowing his chances of any reconciliation. Sorry for the rant. Have a good night


He will continue to do this until you lay down boundaries and refuse to let him walk over your boundaries or play his game. Active alcoholics will promise the earth and mean it at the time but even deny they made such a promise later. 
You have to believe that this is also destroying your children, the damage this leaves will take many hours in therapy (I know as I have lived it). Do not let AH bring you down the black hole with him. 

Your AH has no consequences, he will be loving and say all the right things until the next blow up. Your threat to leave is probably the first real consequences he has gotten, so press on do not back down. You need to get off the roller coaster of emotions and broken promises. You need to set aside your marriage and your AH and focus on you and your children. They need you to be clear and focused on your and their futures (your AH has made his choices). You separating or leaving him may be the impetus he needs to do a 12 step program and sober up. 

However, do not be taken in by all the guilt he is laying on you. He is the one who has messed up your home life, marriage and abused you and his children. In the midst of it you minimize what he is doing, you and the kids need to be removed from the situation. Please join Al-Anon and get your kids into Al-Ateen. Join the SoberRecovery online group as there are many on there who are living your experience with sage advice. Friends and Family of Alcoholics - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information I found these website invaluable and learned so many things. I am still with my H, he is much better now but I put me first nowadays and take no ****! He knows that the first sign of going back to the way things were, I am gone and I am very clear about that. I will stay as long as it suits me. The kids are away and have had the sense to have their own therapy as my son (21 yrs old) put it so he could be a better man and worthy of whomever he meets and not have all the baggage his parents have and what he got due to our volatile marriage!

Finally in answer to the title of your thread. He probably thinks he loves you but an active alcoholic's first love is the bottle. The active alcoholic cannot love anyone because they do not even love themselves as they use alcohol to plug the empty hole inside of them. The quicker you realize that your H is not the man you married and his first love is alcohol, the quicker you will take action. Wishing you a clear and purposeful journey ahead. Pls join the forums I mentioned.


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## NotSure74 (May 26, 2020)

aine said:


> He will continue to do this until you lay down boundaries and refuse to let him walk over your boundaries or play his game. Active alcoholics will promise the earth and mean it at the time but even deny they made such a promise later.
> You have to believe that this is also destroying your children, the damage this leaves will take many hours in therapy (I know as I have lived it). Do not let AH bring you down the black hole with him.
> 
> Your AH has no consequences, he will be loving and say all the right things until the next blow up. Your threat to leave is probably the first real consequences he has gotten, so press on do not back down. You need to get off the roller coaster of emotions and broken promises. You need to set aside your marriage and your AH and focus on you and your children. They need you to be clear and focused on your and their futures (your AH has made his choices). You separating or leaving him may be the impetus he needs to do a 12 step program and sober up.
> ...


I am at work and checked my email for a message from a counselor and thought I’d check out the recent comment. Thank you so much for everything. All of it. I will be sure to check in to the groups/forums. My son who is 8 doesn’t realize his dad is an alcoholic. My 16 yo does. I’ve been at my moms going on 2 weeks. I am so keeping the boundaries even though it’s been very hard internally. I’ve broken down when he’s called me sobbing but through it I stand firm that I can’t fix him, he has to seek help for himself, that I’m trying to heal, that the kids are happier, etc. I told him I didn’t just leave you, I reminded him of why I left. He thinks he needs me, he doesn’t. He wants his family, he wants us two to grow old together but I don’t see it happening. I’ve told him he needs to learn to love himself first and foremost. He will apologize for everything but he’ll never say I know the drinking was a factor or I won’t do it anymore. He’s picked up the kids, spent quality time with them and then ultimately sends me pics and says to please come home, but I won’t. I can’t. 

Both children are in therapy and have been. I am doing the best I can. I actually meet with my psychologist in 10 minutes so I’m really looking forward to that. Again, thank you for everything. I wish I could have realized and left a long time ago. I don’t know what was holding me back. I only want the best for my kiddos. Thank you.


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## NotSure74 (May 26, 2020)

NotSure74 said:


> I am at work and checked my email for a message from a counselor and thought I’d check out the recent comment. Thank you so much for everything. All of it. I will be sure to check in to the groups/forums. My son who is 8 doesn’t realize his dad is an alcoholic. My 16 yo does. I’ve been at my moms going on 2 weeks. I am so keeping the boundaries even though it’s been very hard internally. I’ve broken down when he’s called me sobbing but through it I stand firm that I can’t fix him, he has to seek help for himself, that I’m trying to heal, that the kids are happier, etc. I told him I didn’t just leave you, I reminded him of why I left. He thinks he needs me, he doesn’t. He wants his family, he wants us two to grow old together but I don’t see it happening. I’ve told him he needs to learn to love himself first and foremost. He will apologize for everything but he’ll never say I know the drinking was a factor or I won’t do it anymore. He’s picked up the kids, spent quality time with them and then ultimately sends me pics and says to please come home, but I won’t. I can’t.
> 
> Both children are in therapy and have been. I am doing the best I can. I actually meet with my psychologist in 10 minutes so I’m really looking forward to that. Again, thank you for everything. I wish I could have realized and left a long time ago. I don’t know what was holding me back. I only want the best for my kiddos. Thank you.


I understood what was happening but was frozen in fear maybe. I don’t know. So many factors that I know of - things I was scared of...maybe that’s why.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I know it’s very difficult. I wish you the best going forward.


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