# Is my husband a serial cheater



## Stayornot (Jun 13, 2017)

Hi everyone. 
I've been married for five years and we have a blended family as we both have children from previous relationships. 

First of all my husband cheated on me before we were married, I forgave him. I had access to all his devices and there was nothing suspicious, he never went out without me, so trust came back slowly but surely. For the most part we had a very happy marriage, we make each other laugh, we had a good love life and most importantly our children both adore each other. 

Just before Christmas we hit a rough patch, I found out that the cheating before we got married wasn't the one night stand that he'd made out and he met this girl three times and stayed in contact with her for a couple of weeks and the only reason it stopped was because I had found out something was going on. He always menatained it was a one night stand and I believed him.

I found out he hid the extent from me because he had a row with his sister and she told me to spite him. When confronted he couldn't deny it and agreed to go to couples therapy and he told me everything. 

I was having trouble with it all because I felt I was mislead and if I'd have known how far he went I wouldn't have been so forgiving. So we were having problems, rowing a lot and it all kicked off when he had to go to another city for a new job, we stopped communicating and the following weekend he met up with and old school friend and went out for the evening. None of which I knew until several days later when he finally got in touch. 

This is when it all went from bad to worse. He was tagged in a picture on social media, the picture was him out with some old school friends and there was a few females in the pic, which didn't sit well with me due to the fact he wasn't talking to me and given his past infidelity.

He convinced me the females were just in the group and it was totally innocent and I foolishly believed him. But after a while I had a gut instinct that wouldn't go away, so I went to the page of the nightclub where he was tagged in the pic and looked through the entire album, he was in several pics and at the beginning of the album his wedding ring was visible and in the last pictures of him he had removed it from his finger.

I was heartbroken, to the point I took a panic attack for the first time in my life.

When I confronted him he got very defensive and said as I wasn't acting like much of a wife lately he had taken it off, and he said these exact words "I didn't know want It being a hindrance to me if the opportunity came up." Afterwards he tried to backtrack and say he just said that in anger.

He said he done it because I wasn't acting much of a wife as hadn't heard from me for a few days, he says he thought why should he wear it and says it wasn't about trying to cheat, he was just mad at me so took it off.

Since then he has been trying to win me around but I'm genuinely torn, I do love him with all my heart and our children would be devastated if we split, they are both preteens so still quite young.

We have been officially on a break since Christmas and in May this year I had a weekend away with my sister to clear my head. It ended up with me meeting a guy and having a heart to heart with him, we kissed at the end of the night and when I saw him the following day I ignored him but he persued me and I explained to him that I love my husband and even though I was having a break from my marriage that I don't want to see anyone else. 

The thing is now my husband is trying desperately to make it work and win me back but I don't think I can go back unless I tell him I kissed someone else. I would feel like a hypocrite, I known technically we were on a break but I am still married so shouldn't have done anything like that.

I'm sorry for the long post and any advice would be great.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Sounds like it.


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

Dump him.


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## Stayornot (Jun 13, 2017)

Lostme said:


> Dump him.


That is what my mind is saying I should do but my heart isn't so sure.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

Stayornot said:


> That is what my mind is saying I should do but my heart isn't so sure.


The heart lies to you a helluva lot more than your mind and gut do.

Sorry you're having to deal with this.


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## Stayornot (Jun 13, 2017)

3putt said:


> The heart lies to you a helluva lot more than your mind and gut do.
> 
> Sorry you're having to deal with this.


That is true, I know my mind and gut are the ones I should follow. I just wish it wasn't so hard.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Yep, you shouldn't have kissed that guy. 

And yes, he is probably a serial cheater, and you don't know the half of what he has been up too. You should probably get a STD test. 

If you are interested at all in R, then you should tell him the truth. 

So sorry for your situation, and yes, it will be brutal on the kids. Wish I had happier input to give you.


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## Stayornot (Jun 13, 2017)

Spicy said:


> Yep, you shouldn't have kissed that guy.
> 
> I know and I do regret kissing him, but on the other hand...it really boosted my confidence after my husband knocked it all out of me.
> 
> ...


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Stayornot said:


> Hi everyone.
> I've been married for five years and we have a blended family as we both have children from previous relationships.
> 
> First of all my husband cheated on me before we were married, I forgave him. I had access to all his devices and there was nothing suspicious, he never went out without me, so trust came back slowly but surely. For the most part we had a very happy marriage, we make each other laugh, we had a good love life and most importantly our children both adore each other.
> ...


I don't think you and your WH can work, he is a serial cheater. Another few worrying signs are:

1. he blames your for his cheating - he is not taking responsibility or remorseful

2. when things are tough in the marriage, his default is to go and cheat (some men are like that, they feel entitled as they are not getting their way)

3. He only wants you now because there is a very real possibility that you will move on, he wants to have his cake and eat it

If he agrees to go to intensive IC followed by intensive MC then there might be a chance.

When you are on the break, is he staying faithful? From what you said, I suspect he feels entitled to go to OW.

Be truthful, tell him another man has shown interest in you, you kissed him but that was all. THere is no harm in him knowing that what is good for the gander is good for the goose. It may give him some idea of the pain he has caused you.


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

@aine is right - your husband is not taking responsibility for his actions, or seeming to feel remorse for his recent behaviour or the past affair. I would point out that you are willing to do both with respect to what you shared with another man. So ask yourself why he can convince himself that he didn't do anything that bad? 

Stayornot, a spouse who "punishes" their partner using infidelity when they feel insufficiently loved or appreciated is not a good bet. (And I am writing to myself as much as you, here.) An inability to face and deal with conflict or anger constructively can play out in incredibly immature and self-destructive ways. The other option I'd throw out there is that your husband actually genuinely thinks that his behaviour is morally acceptable. Which means that you and he do not share the same understanding of fidelity. 

So here's the thing - you still feel strongly for your husband. And he says that he still feels deeply for you. But he has hurt you more than once, in a very specific and cruel way. And unless he can address the underlying issues causing this, he will do it again and again in your marriage. And it hurts worse each time, believe me. I agree that counseling (both individual and marriage) are pretty much the only way that I would consider going forward in your circumstances. And that would be a prerequisite before I was even willing to consider trying to go forward. You don't have to decide whether you are willing to stay in your marriage now, you only have to decide whether you are willing to see whether you are willing to try. It's an important distinction - both for him and for you. If he is genuinely trying to do everything to get you back, then he should be willing to do whatever needs to be done. And if he isn't actually willing, well, that also tells you what you need to know. 

As to sharing the story of the other man with your husband (as much it was). I'd be tempted to do that in an MC session. But frankly, I don't see this it as a core issue, given the circumstances. (From a personal impact, you now know how stepping outside your boundaries makes you feel. You stopped it, and that is to your credit. And you won't do it again, because now you understand that holding to your own promises is not dependent on someone else holding to theirs.)


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

What makes the marriage worth saving. Are you happy together most of the time. Is he a wonderful person in some ways. 

A marriage that is usually great is worth a lot of effort to save. OTOH if it is generally unhappy, why try to save something that wasn't that good in the first place.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Well, he took his ring off because he was mad at you. You kissed a guy because you were mad at him. I don't condone what either of you are doing, but it seems you are both trying to hurt each other. If your husband has ruined your self esteem, cheated, has another possible cheating episode, why stay? You take a break and immediately seek validation from a good looking man. I say seeking as you did nothing to stop it, which means you sought validation and then say it feels good. 

So I guess the question is, what is it you both want? Are you both going to commit? Are you both willing to self reflect and make changes?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

He took his ring off cos he wanted to score.

Are you saying you've found him cheating with other women aside from the girl before marriage and the hanging out with the guys and girls at the bar? If not, then no, I'd not say he was a serial cheater. I'd say he was a cheater and a liar who needs to be in extensive therapy with you to figure out how to have a decent marriage.

In the meantime, get him a copy of His Needs Her Needs and tell him to read it and report back to you what he's learned. You read it, too. Tell him you kissed a guy and it didn't sit well and you're now at an impasse on what to do moving forward, and you're waiting to see what he does. From a separate home.


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## Stayornot (Jun 13, 2017)

@aine I think what you are saying is right.

He hasn't been with anyone since we've been on this break, he has been trying all he can to remain loyal. 

I do think telling him is important, my only concern is how he will take the news. I know he will be devasted and it wasn't my intention to cause him any pain, but we weren't together and I don't think I did anything wrong.

I would love to save my marriage but do have concerns that anytime things get tough is he going to run off and try and hook up with someone, it's a dilemma for sure.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

Stayornot said:


> That is true, I know my mind and gut are the ones I should follow. I just wish it wasn't so hard.


Sometimes the best choices for us are usually the hardest ones we have to make!


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## Stayornot (Jun 13, 2017)

@Mizzbak thank you for you response. 

Everything you say I tend to think myself. I think he needs some counselling to work on his own issues and why he thinks this type of thing is acceptable and makes excuses to excuse his behaviour.

You're right when you say we don't share the same issues on fidelity, infidelity is a deal breaker for me and one which I can't accept. When in a relationship I am in a relationship with one person and one person only.

His behaviour is very self destructive, going and creating more problems when there was already huge problems to begin with is just plain stupid. 

I do think the situation I found myself in isn't of much relavence, as I had told my husband I didn't want to be with him and needed my space. It was after 6 months of us being apart I kissed the other man, and after what my husband put me through I can't see that I did anything wrong. All I know is it wasn't what I wanted, I do love my husband and have no desire to be with anyone else.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

Stayornot said:


> @aine I think what you are saying is right.
> 
> *He hasn't been with anyone since we've been on this break, he has been trying all he can to remain loyal. *
> 
> ...


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## Stayornot (Jun 13, 2017)

uhtred said:


> What makes the marriage worth saving. Are you happy together most of the time. Is he a wonderful person in some ways.
> 
> A marriage that is usually great is worth a lot of effort to save. OTOH if it is generally unhappy, why try to save something that wasn't that good in the first place.


The marriage beforehand was a very happy one, we were both very loving and caring towards each other and very affectionate. We got along very well the majority of the time. 

So I'm torn because I know how happy we can be and I know he isn't a bad person, he's just a bit stupid at times.


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## Stayornot (Jun 13, 2017)

drifting on said:


> Well, he took his ring off because he was mad at you. You kissed a guy because you were mad at him. I don't condone what either of you are doing, but it seems you are both trying to hurt each other. If your husband has ruined your self esteem, cheated, has another possible cheating episode, why stay? You take a break and immediately seek validation from a good looking man. I say seeking as you did nothing to stop it, which means you sought validation and then say it feels good.
> 
> So I guess the question is, what is it you both want? Are you both going to commit? Are you both willing to self reflect and make changes?


He took his ring off whilst we were still very much together and I don't know if that's all he's guilty of doing, I suspect there's more than what he's telling me.

I kissed a guy after six months into a break from my husband, not a week, or a month, six months after I told him I wanted a break and some time out. So I would hardly put us in the same category, I wasn't being unfaithful and I had the opportunity to take things further and didn't because I am not yet divorced. I have only started considering getting back with my husband within the past couple of weeks, so I don't know whether I should tell him or not because in my eyes I haven't cheated.


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## Stayornot (Jun 13, 2017)

turnera said:


> He took his ring off cos he wanted to score.
> 
> Are you saying you've found him cheating with other women aside from the girl before marriage and the hanging out with the guys and girls at the bar? If not, then no, I'd not say he was a serial cheater. I'd say he was a cheater and a liar who needs to be in extensive therapy with you to figure out how to have a decent marriage.
> 
> In the meantime, get him a copy of His Needs Her Needs and tell him to read it and report back to you what he's learned. You read it, too. Tell him you kissed a guy and it didn't sit well and you're now at an impasse on what to do moving forward, and you're waiting to see what he does. From a separate home.


That's exactly why I think he took his ring off, he has since tried to deny that's the reason but I can't see any other reason for it.

He has swore that he hasn't cheated, but in my eyes whether he got lucky or not the damage is still done because the intention was there.

No, I've never caught him cheating and to my knowledge he has been faithful for the rest of the time. However, he does seem to have a problem with flirting, I've seen emails to and from work colleagues and they can come across as a bit flirtatious, nothing too outrageous but still flirtatious.


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## Stayornot (Jun 13, 2017)

@ladybird that's very true, I just wish it didn't have to hurt so much.


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## Stayornot (Jun 13, 2017)

@ladybird
I don't think he would have the means to be with anyone now as everything he does is monitored and I always have access to all his devices. But given his history I wouldn't bet my life on it.

I feel a sense of guilt because I took my marriage vows seriously and part of me thinks I should wait to divorce before I kiss anyone else, but that doesn't mean I think what I do was wrong, because it seems like you say he's the reason was separated in the first place. If he hadn't done what he'd done I'd never have kissed anyone else.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Stayornot said:


> He took his ring off whilst we were still very much together and I don't know if that's all he's guilty of doing, I suspect there's more than what he's telling me.
> 
> I kissed a guy after six months into a break from my husband, not a week, or a month, six months after I told him I wanted a break and some time out. So I would hardly put us in the same category, I wasn't being unfaithful and I had the opportunity to take things further and didn't because I am not yet divorced. I have only started considering getting back with my husband within the past couple of weeks, so I don't know whether I should tell him or not because in my eyes I haven't cheated.




Stayornot 

I wasn't comparing what you have both done, infidelity is terrible at any level. What I was saying is you both will have hurt each other with your actions. I then asked you questions which you didn't answer, you will need to answer those questions at some point if you decide to reconcile. You didn't have the full story the first time your husband cheated. You found out later and now have second thoughts about your forgiveness. This is normal, but now a second incident where he went out with old friends has risen. Again you don't know if you have the full story. Will you ever? Who knows, he may confess and he may not. What concerns me, he is now POSSIBLY a repeat offender. I can only give one chance, I'm unable to provide multiple chances. That's me, I don't know what you are capable of, do you think you can forgive? What if you find out more after you decide to reconcile? For me the damage has been done, I would be divorcing.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Stayornot said:


> @aine I think what you are saying is right.
> 
> He hasn't been with anyone since we've been on this break, he has been trying all he can to remain loyal.
> 
> ...



Stayornot, I think you may be overestimating his 'devastation' at your kiss, he has done so much worse!


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## pbj2016 (May 7, 2017)

Stayornot said:


> @ladybird
> I don't think he would have the means to be with anyone now as everything he does is monitored and I always have access to all his devices. But given his history I wouldn't bet my life on it.
> 
> I feel a sense of guilt because I took my marriage vows seriously and part of me thinks I should wait to divorce before I kiss anyone else, but that doesn't mean I think what I do was wrong, because it seems like you say he's the reason was separated in the first place. If he hadn't done what he'd done I'd never have kissed anyone else.




You cannot reconcile fully with that guilt on your head. Ask for full transparency and disclosure from him before you agree to reconcile and then use that opportunity to disclose your action. 

Who cares what he thinks about your one time action? He has no moral standing or position to judge you. You stopped it (however rather poorly imo). You want to disclose your actions sooner than later because you might be starting over on the reconciliation process upon disclosure. 

He might also project his loose morals on to you and accuse you of doing more than you've admitted to doing so be prepared to answer that. If he hasn't been completely honest in his disclosure then I would expect this response even more. 

Honestly if it were me I wouldn't proceed with reconciliation until you are confident he has addressed why he feels the need to disrespect you so many times in such a short time span.


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

Stayornot said:


> That is what my mind is saying I should do but my heart isn't so sure.



You have to do what is best for you, he will never change. No man should ever go to other women discussing his marital business, he is doing it to get sympathy from the women. Boundaries will not work for this guy as he already does not care.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
What are you trying to save? You have been on a "break" since Christmas? Where in the vows of marriage is the caveat for taking breaks? I have not yet been informed that an oath can be suspended and then reapplied. Is it similar to calling time out? In any event, you have suspended your vows since Christmas, he is going to clubs and try to attract women, you are going on weekends away with your sister to "clear your head" and kiss another man. How, exactly, did kissing another man help to clarify your mind regarding your H? It seems as though it would complicate things even further.

You are so distraught over losing your H/marriage that you were able to find solace in the arms (lips) of another man? And, by the way it is most definitely cheating. You can call break or time out or olly olly oxen free or whatever other childish proclamation you choose but to break one's vow is cheating, period. If your H is guilty then so are you. Of course, you can claim firsties since he did it first so that makes you the winner.

Here is a proposition for you to consider. Perhaps try approaching this from an adult perspective. Perhaps try having an open dialog wherein you explain to your H that you have grown tired of being in child's game and now desire a real marriage, just like the ones grown ups have. Tell him that you and he swore a vow and this behavior, from both of you, is unacceptable and not sustainable nor at all conducive to marriage. Then you two make an adult decision to either stay together and make a family or go your separate ways and continue your games.

There are children that are depending on you two to be mature and be the stabilizing factor in their lives. What have they seen thus far? Do they not deserve better from the "adults"? I challenge you to do an introspection and answer that question. And to answer your question, it would seem that your H is a serial cheater and you are on your way. Perhaps some carefully reasoned thought is in order.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

OK then a different question - that only you can answer for yourself. How much does cheating bother you. 

Lets say knew that he was going to continue to occasionally cheat. Would you accept that in return for the good things in the marriage?

Different people feel differently about cheating. For some it is completely unacceptable. For others it is bad, but not the end of the world. Still others are OK with open relationships. How do you feel about it?




Stayornot said:


> The marriage beforehand was a very happy one, we were both very loving and caring towards each other and very affectionate. We got along very well the majority of the time.
> 
> So I'm torn because I know how happy we can be and I know he isn't a bad person, he's just a bit stupid at times.


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

Stayornot said:


> @... that doesn't mean I think what I do was wrong, because it seems like you say he's the reason was separated in the first place. If he hadn't done what he'd done I'd never have kissed anyone else.[/quote]
> [MENTION=294690]Stayornot, please do not think that I am without sympathy for your position. But I am going to call you on this. What you did was wrong in the context of what you understand about fidelity, and you know this to be so. That is why confronting it makes you feel bad. When we make vows, these are not just promises to others, but also to ourselves. Do not fall into the trap of lying to yourself about this. If you can justify your kiss on the basis of the hurt your husband caused you, then why can he not argue that your continued lack of forgiveness "caused" him to be angry enough to try to hurt you again with his more recent behaviour?
> 
> As I said, in the greater scheme of things, I do not believe that your behaviour with the other man is relevant to the core of this issue. Which I think is this:
> ...


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## Stayornot (Jun 13, 2017)

@driftingon in answer to the questions you asked I don't think I need to reflect and make changes because I have been faithful to him throughout the entire marriage. What I did was when we were separated and I genuinely believed my marriage was over, had filed for divorce. So in my mind it was over. It hasn't been finalised as he is trying to win me back and over the past few weeks I have thought about maybe reconciliation.

I think for us to move on I would have to accept I may never know the extent of what he did and I'm not okay with that, for me disclosure is key to reconciliation.

I don't know if I will ever have that because he tends to try and make excuses for his actions or blame shift.

All I know is before all this I had a close to perfect marriage and was very happy.


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## Stayornot (Jun 13, 2017)

aine said:


> Stayornot, I think you may be overestimating his 'devastation' at your kiss, he has done so much worse!


Perhaps I am but I get the impression what's okay for him isn't okay for me, he just gives me that impression.


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## Stayornot (Jun 13, 2017)

pbj2016 said:


> You cannot reconcile fully with that guilt on your head. Ask for full transparency and disclosure from him before you agree to reconcile and then use that opportunity to disclose your action.
> 
> Who cares what he thinks about your one time action? He has no moral standing or position to judge you. You stopped it (however rather poorly imo). You want to disclose your actions sooner than later because you might be starting over on the reconciliation process upon disclosure.
> 
> ...


I have to agree wholeheartedly with you. He doesn't have a right to judge me because if it wasn't for him I wouldn't have been in a situation like that.

I do believe honesty is the best policy and if we do decide to make a go of it, I will tell him and if he does try and make out like there's more to it then I'll just call it a day because I am not easy, he more than anyone else knows this, I didn't just jump into bed with him at the drop of a hat, we were together for almost a year, so he would be insulting me if he insinuated anything like that.


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## Stayornot (Jun 13, 2017)

@Lostme I do have to do what is right for me and I am caught between the marriage I used to have before all this happened and what it has become.

In an ideal world I would love to get my marriage back to how it was before, because the six months since I asked for a separation I have felt so miserable.


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## Stayornot (Jun 13, 2017)

NoChoice said:


> OP,
> What are you trying to save? You have been on a "break" since Christmas? Where in the vows of marriage is the caveat for taking breaks? I have not yet been informed that an oath can be suspended and then reapplied. Is it similar to calling time out? In any event, you have suspended your vows since Christmas, he is going to clubs and try to attract women, you are going on weekends away with your sister to "clear your head" and kiss another man. How, exactly, did kissing another man help to clarify your mind regarding your H? It seems as though it would complicate things even further.
> 
> You are so distraught over losing your H/marriage that you were able to find solace in the arms (lips) of another man? And, by the way it is most definitely cheating. You can call break or time out or olly olly oxen free or whatever other childish proclamation you choose but to break one's vow is cheating, period. If your H is guilty then so are you. Of course, you can claim firsties since he did it first so that makes you the winner.
> ...


 @NoChoice I find your message incredibly patronising, how is talking down to someone giving helpful advice?

I came here for advice, not to be spoken down or judged.

Nowhere in my vows did it mention taking a break but why should I stay with a man who hurt me deeply? I wanted to end the marriage completely and filed for divorce, he begged me to prospone divorce proceedings so he could try and show me he would change and do whatever it took.

I told him I wanted to be on my own, I told him not to call me his wife as I nolonger felt he was my husband.

So I don't feel I acted childish like you say, I needed some space, I was upset about my marriage but that doesn't mean when I kissed this other guy that I cheated, my husband and I had been living apart since last year. He was the one who broke the vows of marriage when he lied to be for over four years and took his ring off to cheat once more. I did nothing wrong, when I took my vows I meant them, my husband was the one who destroyed our marriage and what we had. I have been faithful.

I'll tell you what that other man did for me, he helped me realise I am still desirable because due to my husbands behaviour I thought I wasn't. Knowing that I can still attract a man done a lot for my self confidence which was at an all time low, so that other mans lips worked wonders for me, it helped me regain what my husband took from me.....my self esteem!

And sometimes we need to take a break or time out from a relationship to gain some perspective and time apart can either make or break you, and absence can make the heart grow fonder, make people realise what life is like without one another and it can make them determined to make their marriage work and mke each other happy.

So just because taking a break for a while might not be your thing don't be so judgemental on me because I have a different perspective on things than you.


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## Stayornot (Jun 13, 2017)

uhtred said:


> OK then a different question - that only you can answer for yourself. How much does cheating bother you.
> 
> Lets say knew that he was going to continue to occasionally cheat. Would you accept that in return for the good things in the marriage?
> 
> Different people feel differently about cheating. For some it is completely unacceptable. For others it is bad, but not the end of the world. Still others are OK with open relationships. How do you feel about it?


No way! To me there is no point being in a relationship if there isn't monogamy. Some people are okay with their partners being with others but it is not for me.


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## Stayornot (Jun 13, 2017)

Mizzbak said:


> @Stayornot, please do not think that I am without sympathy for your position. But I am going to call you on this. What you did was wrong in the context of what you understand about fidelity, and you know this to be so. That is why confronting it makes you feel bad. When we make vows, these are not just promises to others, but also to ourselves. Do not fall into the trap of lying to yourself about this. If you can justify your kiss on the basis of the hurt your husband caused you, then why can he not argue that your continued lack of forgiveness "caused" him to be angry enough to try to hurt you again with his more recent behaviour?
> 
> As I said, in the greater scheme of things, I do not believe that your behaviour with the other man is relevant to the core of this issue. Which I think is this:
> - You found out that your husband had deceived you before you were married.
> ...


I totally see where you're coming from and I do agree with a lot of it.

I just don't see how what I did can me deemed as wrong, as my husband and I have been separated for six months and in that time I filed for divorce. I never even considered reconciling until two weeks ago, so when I kissed another my marriage at that point was over. 

If I do decide to reconcile I will be honest with my husband because I don't see how we could move forward without complete honesty.


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

Stay, you are the only one who needs to decide on the morality of what you did or did not do. The opinions of the rest of us are just that ... opinions of faraway strangers who don't actually know either you or your husband. If you look around on TAM you will see that there is a fair amount of difference of opinion about whether it is appropriate to explore other relationships during separation. Only you know what the terms of your separation were, and what you and your husband agreed on. I would suggest that some other posters were picking up on what they saw as your own discomfort when they wrote as they did. If you do feel any discomfort about what you did, then you do yourself a disservice in not challenging that within yourself. And if you do not, then that is also your position to hold. Yours are the only eyes that you need to meet in the mirror. 

I agree that you should be honest with your husband. About everything - the concerns that you have about how you understand fidelity differently, the betrayal that you feel around the lack of honesty he showed before you were married and the kiss you shared with another man. And the fact that you still have strong feelings for him (your husband). And I agree that complete honesty is the best way to move forward.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

Stayornot said:


> @NoChoice I find your message incredibly patronising, how is talking down to someone giving helpful advice?
> 
> I came here for advice, not to be spoken down or judged.
> 
> ...


It appears your argument is with yourself, not with me.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Here's the thing, people judge separation different from others. What did you agree upon before you separated? To me it makes a huge difference in what you are currently arguing, for others it still won't matter.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Your husband is a sorry piece of **** and doesn't deserve you at ALL. He's cheated multiple times and couldn't care less that he's hurt you. The fact you kissed another guy just underlines how messed up he's got your head.

You need to get rid of your husband asap. If you stay with him/get back together, you're in for nothing but more and more and more if the same, sorry to say.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

From what you have posted, my opinion (just opinion) is that he is likely to cheat again. Based on that and what you posted below, I think you would be happier divorced. 

Other people will of course have other opinions. Does anyone think it is unlikely that he will cheat again?


I'm not worried about morality or who did what - just thinking about which course of action will make you happier in the long run. 





Stayornot said:


> No way! To me there is no point being in a relationship if there isn't monogamy. Some people are okay with their partners being with others but it is not for me.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Stayornot said:


> Perhaps I am but I get the impression what's okay for him isn't okay for me, he just gives me that impression.


So?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

NoChoice said:


> It appears your argument is with yourself, not with me.


You're right. Most women are taught VERY early on to feel guilt, even if they don't deserve to.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

drifting on said:


> Well, he took his ring off because he was mad at you.


Yeah....no.

He took it off because as Tunera said, *he wanted to score*.

The OP stated in a subsequent post that the pictures SHOW him wearing his wedding band at the beginning of the evening but as the evening progresses, suddenly the ring is nowhere in sight The guy's a scumbag who was clearly on the hunt for any sleazy opportunity that might fall in his lap that night. It ain't rocket science.

OP, he's already SHOWN you - *how* many times now? - what a low life he is. When people SHOW you who they really are, you need to believe them.

ETA: Crap, I now see I'm 5 days late to this party. LOL.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Yeah....no.
> 
> He took it off because as Tunera said, *he wanted to score*.
> 
> ...




Lol!!! My comment was to show how childish he is for taking his ring off.


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## Stayornot (Jun 13, 2017)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Here's the thing, people judge separation different from others. What did you agree upon before you separated? To me it makes a huge difference in what you are currently arguing, for others it still won't matter.


We agreed it was over, well I did, he protested against it. I told him he was free to see other people as was I. He finally accepted it because he had to and he moved out.


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## Stayornot (Jun 13, 2017)

@Mizzbak I get that people have different opinions and you're right, only I know my situation.

I do not feel guilty that I kissed another man, because at that stage my marriage was over. I would say it was more of a feeling of discomfort, I have been used to kissing the same man for a decade now and that's the man I love, so kissing the other man helped me realise I would rather work on things with my husband.

I haven't told him yet but if we do get back together I will explain it all to him.


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## Stayornot (Jun 13, 2017)

@Hope1964 He has messed up my head, when I married I thought I was marrying for life and never dreamt I would kiss another man.

The thing is, I love my husband and the good times outweigh the bad. That's why I'm finding it so difficult to completely move on.


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## Stayornot (Jun 13, 2017)

uhtred said:


> From what you have posted, my opinion (just opinion) is that he is likely to cheat again. Based on that and what you posted below, I think you would be happier divorced.
> 
> Other people will of course have other opinions. Does anyone think it is unlikely that he will cheat again?
> 
> ...


That's what I fear, if I give him another chance and he goes and does it all over again. I couldn't take it, the pains too deep.

But then he's never came this close to losing me before, so I'm trying to think maybe that will act stop him and make him think twice about doing it again.

He has swore blind that nothing actually happened, which for me is irrelevant because he still tried. I guess I'll never know the truth though.


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## Stayornot (Jun 13, 2017)

@She'sStillGotIt that's exactly right, it wasn't because he was mad at me, he was hoping to hook up with someone.

He has shown me who he is, it hurts like hell and I just wish I didn't love him so much.

If it was a bad relationship completely I would walk away quite easily, but the marriage prior to this was a really good one, we were solid. So it's so hard to make a decision on what's for the best.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Stayornot said:


> We agreed it was over, well I did, he protested against it. I told him he was free to see other people as was I. He finally accepted it because he had to and he moved out.


I have to say I find it highly amusing that 'seeing other people' was *exactly* what he was doing WHILE he was married, yet he acted as though it was an 'unacceptable' condition for your separation. This guy is a real con artist, ain't he?

Well OP, the mistake you're making is hoping to get back the 'good' marriage you think you had before all this happened. But the 'good' marriage was based on his *lies* and most likely, cheating you don't even know about. People of his ilk don't suddenly wake up one day and decide to cheat. This is pattern behavior for him. You just didn't realize it until you started really looking at his behavior and seeing him for what he IS. I'd be willing to bet good money there's still a WHOLE LOT you don't know about.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Stayornot said:


> @She'sStillGotIt that's exactly right, it wasn't because he was mad at me, he was hoping to hook up with someone.
> 
> He has shown me who he is, it hurts like hell and I just wish I didn't love him so much.
> 
> If it was a bad relationship completely I would walk away quite easily, but the marriage prior to this was a really good one, we were solid. So it's so hard to make a decision on what's for the best.


Something women often have a hard time understanding is just how much sex drives a man. I've rarely come across a man who got married and expected to get LESS sex, or BORING sex. But that's pretty common in marriages - responsibilities increase, kids come along, the newness wears off and you start taking each other for granted, the longer you're together the worse the communication gets and the more resentments you gain...all leading to less sex. 

But the guy doesn't stop WANTING it all the time. It's biological. And yeah, most men I know DO look at women all the time, every day, and think of them with their clothes off. Doesn't matter who the woman is, they consider it. Don't usually ACT on it, but they're still thinking about it all the time. So when the woman nests and falls into complacency in the marriage, the man is getting less and less satisfied, unless the two are doing extraordinarily well in keeping their marriage fresh and fun and not letting all the responsibilities get in the way of their sex life.

All to say, it doesn't surprise me that he'd take his ring off. Guys still want sex, no matter what's going on in the marriage. And it's usually a stronger, physical need for them, more so than for most women. And the woman who doesn't realize that, or forgets it, well, she sometimes ends up with a cheating husband. 

Of course, not ALL men do this. The men who come here for example. And I know many great men who would never consider it. My own brother wouldn't even date until his divorce was final.

I'm just trying to say that, if any of this rings true to you, and if you still want to be married, it behooves you to take a look at what the marriage was really like, from both your sides, and see if it warrants some further conversations. That said, it seems like lying and cheating may be a pattern, so you really have to look at all this WITHOUT your emotion involved. For example, if it were your sister, what would you tell her to do?


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## Stayornot (Jun 13, 2017)

@turnera but that's the thing, thougout our marriage our sex life was always really good. We always kept things fresh, and had sex almost everyday, even through the more difficult times. 

My husband and I are very physically attracted to each other, so we could never keep our hands off each other and we made out everyday. I know he was getting more sex being married to me than he was as a single man.

So I can't understand why he felt the need to try and hook up with someone else.

He has some insecurities and although he knows he has them, he never addresses them. I often wonder does he seek other women for validation, to try and prove something to himself.

If it was my sister I would probably tell her to leave, I just wish I could tell myself that.


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## Stayornot (Jun 13, 2017)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I have to say I find it highly amusing that 'seeing other people' was *exactly* what he was doing WHILE he was married, yet he acted as though it was an 'unacceptable' condition for your separation. This guy is a real con artist, ain't he?
> 
> Well OP, the mistake you're making is hoping to get back the 'good' marriage you think you had before all this happened. But the 'good' marriage was based on his *lies* and most likely, cheating you don't even know about. People of his ilk don't suddenly wake up one day and decide to cheat. This is pattern behavior for him. You just didn't realize it until you started really looking at his behavior and seeing him for what he IS. I'd be willing to bet good money there's still a WHOLE LOT you don't know about.


I agree, it is a pattern of behaviour and there could be things I will never know.

You're probably right, it would be hard to get back the good marriage I had before. If it were a bad marriage then I'd leave without hesitation, but it was a very happy and loving marriage.

That said, I wouldn't want to reconcile and to be living like a paranoid wreck for the rest of my life, always worried he will get up to no good.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Stayornot said:


> @turnera
> So I can't understand why he felt the need to try and hook up with someone else.
> 
> He has some insecurities and although he knows he has them, he never addresses them. I often wonder does he seek other women for validation, to try and prove something to himself.


I think you hit the nail on the head. Cheating is done to make one's self feel better. In whatever way - more sex, adoration, thrills, etc. It's rarely about your partner. So if he has severe insecurities, something else is driving him. 

Also, if the cheating was emotional and not just sex, then he was likely doing it to mask those insecurities; i.e. she praised him, admired him, made him forget. 

I'd say it would be important to find out WHY before you do anything else.


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