# Gender Sterotypes, Sex and Marriage



## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

There's been another thread that debates whether or not women want sex every bit as much as men do.

I think the topic could use some narrowing.

I don't doubt that, in the great majority of *new* relationships, women DO want sex every bit as much as men. If this weren't the case, there would probably not be many *old* relationships. 

How about marriages? Do wives in established marriages want sex every bit as much as their husbands?

I'm posting in the Ladies forum since this was where the original thread was and because I'm primarily interested in the view of women.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

The problem is that people try to put sex in a bubble. Women want sex when they feel happy, safe, connected, loved and laughed with.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> The problem is that people try to put sex in a bubble. Women want sex when they feel happy, safe, connected, loved and laughed with.


Does it work the same way for men? Do they want sex when they feel happy, safe, connected, loved and laughed with?


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

and gate,
Marriage provides Safe. The rest is variable and the list may not be accurate for all women or for any particular day. But that really has nothing to do with the question.

The question is does long term relationship lower the level and frequency of sexual desire? Now if you feel less loved or laughed with in a long term relationship We men should consider that. There are plenty of men using the several short relationship method but it tends to be expensive. We need to evaluate if it is the only way to keep you interested.
MN


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Nope Buddy it works differently with men. We have an or gate.
We want sex when we feel happy or safe or connected or loved or laughed with or some other things . once again the list is not accurate or predictable.
MN


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

I suspect men and women equally enjoy sex as it pertains to intimacy, love, closeness, and recreation. But there's more to the story which is biology.

So in my opinion men and women sometimes enjoy sex equally but men don't have so many "out of service" biological buttons as women do. :yawn2:


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

Not a wife, but I have had one for better than a couple of decades. 

IME...she wants it as much -if not more -than I do. Currently averaging about 3 times a day. Morning...some time during the day (usually lunch) then at night. 

If I don't initiate she will. If I don't initiate a couple times in a row. She actually asks WTF.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

What stats have shown recently is that a measurable amount of women lose their desire for sex with their partner in a long term relationship, while this doesn't occur to men in long term relationships very often by comparison.

Why?

There are too many reasons to count. But that's what the stats do consistently show via self-reporting.

However, what is interesting is that there are a significant amount of these lost-their-desire-long-term-women-partners who are wishing, searching and hoping for a way to bring their desire BACK. They are aware they've lost that fun sparkle they used to have, and they want it back but for some reason, "in captivity", females will not always remain HD. 

Studies do show that the presence of a new male will immediately bring back these women's desire.

This is assuming a woman had an average-normal sex drive to begin with and not a dysfunction of some kind. If she had desire for him to start with but lost it over time, and then it can come back with someone new...this shows she is not dysfunctional, she just shut down. They have observed this in other mammals and primates in captivity with a mate. It appears that without even the hope to get some strange, some women will just lose their desire altogether.

Some of these women do still have sex with their partners though, they are either muscling through it, or they actually do get into it once they get going, or they do it out of love, or whatever. Loss of desire doesn't always mean loss of sex life (though usually it does).

IMO, this is avoidable and there's evidence that shows it is avoidable. Just because it happens quite often doesn't mean it has to happen...it means we are doing something wrong by creating an environment that for whatever reason, shuts women's desire off. 

They do also study couples for whom this is not true...and there are similarities in the lifestyle and relationship style of those couples that can be learned from.


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## ChristianGrey (Nov 27, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> The problem is that people try to put sex in a bubble. Women want sex when they feel happy, safe, connected, loved and laughed with.


And this time, I thought women wanted sex when they were horny, FML.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

NobodySpecial said:


> The problem is that people try to put sex in a bubble. Women want sex when they feel happy, safe, connected, loved and laughed with.


And this is why we buy them drinks.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Buddy400 said:


> There's been another thread that debates whether or not women want sex every bit as much as men do.


Depends on your definitions.

I'm in my mid 50's. Have been know to explain to H that I enjoy sex MORE than him but (no matter how much I wish I could) I can't do that daily. If the frequency is too high, my enjoyment level declines: takes me way longer, I get sore and feel self conscious, etc.

So I would say I want *high-quality* sex *more *than him.


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## lovesmanis (Oct 9, 2014)

I could have sex all day and all night.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> What stats have shown recently is that a measurable amount of women lose their desire for sex with their partner in a long term relationship, while this doesn't occur to men in long term relationships very often by comparison.
> 
> Why?
> 
> ...


That's my take on it as well. I'm pretty sure 90% of people would agree.

I just get confused when I see long threads with women, usually describing themselves as feminists (not that there's anything wrong with that!), who seem to be saying it's a vicious stereotype. And I'm left scratching my head wondering why we see such different things.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

The stereo type is that men want sex more than women, period. That is still incorrect, IMO, regardless of the loss of desire in captivity women experience.

Because it isn't that women stop wanting sex in long term relationships, they just stop wanting it with their one partner. They continue to wish they could have sex with someone else, they fantasize about someone else, or they may end up cheating.

So the idea that just because her desire is gone for that one long term partner "means" she is less sexual than he is, is incorrect. She could actually be considered more sexual in the sense that she wants variety and he's fine with same 'ol same 'ol.

And again...just because her desire may be gone doesn't means she won't still have sex with him.

Blonde's point is a good one, too. Many women want high quality sex over less quality but more quantity sex. This is again not a sign that women are less sexual but actually more sexual, more discerning, more self-aware, and less willing to settle. If you love wine, are you more into wine if you prefer lots of cheap wine to less amounts of excellent wine? No. Both wine lovers love wine, there's no reason to say one loves it more.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

MarriedDude said:


> Not a wife, but I have had one for better than a couple of decades.
> 
> *IME...she wants it as much -if not more -than I do. Currently averaging about 3 times a day. Morning...some time during the day (usually lunch) then at night.
> 
> If I don't initiate she will. If I don't initiate a couple times in a row. She actually asks WTF.*


This was ME for a time... but I wasn't this way for the 1st 19 yrs.. I like the article cletus put on another thread.. .. Do men really have higher sex drives than women? ...I thought it was really good.... though some women here think it's BUNK.... I guess we all speak out of our own experiences, comparing our women friends... what we've seen growing up...

Most of the people I know personally, the men have higher drives, think about sex more, want sex more, complain they aren't getting it more, more into porn...more open to sexual joking... 

I've sat with women complaining their husbands want it too much...and they just want a break... I guess it all depends on what circles we are running in.... Most of the people I know are married with kids.... they are not single women dating with the whirlwind excitement of different relationships... (which I tend to think could be the case -where it seems they want AS MUCH sex)...of course every couple is different...

There is one lady from my Mops group where she had higher Test, so bad she had to get hair removed from her chin on a regular basis, her voice was unusually low too..... and her husband NEVER wanted it as much as her, from their dating years.. she spoke how it was very difficult for her.. she also liked some porn (even though she was a christian)....

But generally... I just don't have friends in real life with the enthusiasm & passion to talk about sex -exploring all of it's wonder & the heightened fulfillment it can bring to our marriages, that subject just DOESN'T come up -unless I BRING IT UP.. which I have done a # of times.. 

I've went & got myself a Reputation for it even....if I am at the party, we know where the conversation will go.. it sure gets some of them blushing.. and roaring..







...but it's a good time... I am corrupting all the conservative women I know.. I think their husband's won't mind !!.. But yeah.. the circles I run in are more of the conservative type...

This is probably the divide... we know more Openness on this subject is NEEDED and explored..



> *Faithful Wife said*: Because it isn't that women stop wanting sex in long term relationships, they just stop wanting it with their one partner. They continue to wish they could have sex with someone else, they fantasize about someone else, or they may end up cheating.
> 
> So the idea that just because her desire is gone for that one long term partner "means" she is less sexual than he is, is incorrect. She could actually be considered more sexual in the sense that she wants variety and he's fine with same 'ol same 'ol.


Some of them may not be fully in touch with their sexual selves either, or maybe they can't orgasm with their husband.. so many threads on here where the man discovers his wife is getting off with the vibe...she says she doesn't use it -then it's moved on a regular basis -so he knows she is.. she may not want to hurt his feelings -that she can't achieve an orgasm with him.. 

Although I never had this problem but I still wasn't in touch with my full sexual self ...Oh Husband could have shaken it up MORE so to get me more interested... I wasn't thinking of anyone else or complaining those years though, so I can't say I fit this profile.. just so many different things it could be.. I think one of the most common reasons a woman's appears less... is plain & simple "*unresolved resentment"* in the relationship...which could be over anything.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

FW beat me to it. She tipped me onto a book with some very valuable research into women in LTRs that want sex but not with their SO anymore. Good stuff.

I also think picking SAs brain is a good resource. She is in an extremely successful LTR with no apparent loss of desire for her husband.

My wife and I are also successful, 23 years, and have kept her desire revved up. Mrs. Conan did, however, have a pretty significant drop in libido a few times in our marriage. I have studied, worked and generally not put up with it and she has really come around.


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

What's the book? FW What's the research about couples who are successful at keeping the woman's interest over the long term? What are those strategies?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Firebelly I will look for links for you for that.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

My wife's interest has been remarkably consistent over our nearly 30 years together. She has been a 1-2 times/week girl, with hardly any change through a hip replacement, 2 pregnancies, a full hysterectomy - you name it. The only thing that increases that innate number is spending a lot of time together, like on long vacations.

I don't have any advice on how to keep it that way for anyone else, because I never experienced the really big decline in desire that some men and women report. Just pay attention to the things that light your partner's desire, and be sure do keep doing them.


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## lifeisbetterthanalternat (Apr 24, 2012)

I personally think that there is biology/chemestry going on. There are some women who lose drive because of resentment or other psycological factors. Those can be avoided. 

I also know female relatives, and family friends and acquaintences who by and large don't have sex as important on their list. When they were young and dating they were "active enough" to get married but, alas once comfortable in a relationship sex becomes chore/currency. 

At a ripe age...I believe this to be "fact" for some women.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> What stats have shown recently is that a measurable amount of women lose their desire for sex with their partner in a long term relationship, while this doesn't occur to men in long term relationships very often by comparison.
> 
> Why?
> 
> ...


I think this is super interesting and TAM is the first place I've seen this mentioned. Do you have studies or articles you can point me to so that I can read more on the subject?


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## ThirtyYearsIn (Sep 20, 2014)

Thirty years ago when we were teenagers I wanted more sex than my wife (girlfriend at that time). Now the tables have turned and I am having a little trouble keeping up with her. Emotionally I am thrilled to see that she has so much desire.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Twenty years ago we were equally hot for each other. Things changed after kids came, I did have drop in libido, and then it turned out it was my IUD' fault. It came back few months after removing it. I am very cyclical so there were times of the month when I was not interested, only to chase after him few days later. 
My marriage is very rocky, but since we both like sex, this part works most of the time. Unless things get relly bad, then even sex suffers. I think we both are 1-2 a week people. To have it more often, it would have to be something different than usual. I am more kinky than he is, so that's my problem, I can not get him into more adventurous route.


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## D.H Mosquito (Jul 22, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> What stats have shown recently is that a measurable amount of women lose their desire for sex with their partner in a long term relationship, while this doesn't occur to men in long term relationships very often by comparison.
> 
> Why?
> 
> ...


I have to agree with all of the above, i stupidly put my wives drive down to hurting her back during pregnancy that she suffered from afterwards, i took a couple of jobs so she didn't have to go back to work and recover, intimacy waned and partly knew it was me due to being tired and not being there as always working and she made new friends at a mother and toddlers art class where she met "him" her drive shot through the roof and stupidly i never put two and two together and soon i was sexless again but needless to him and her weren't, got things fixed etc now she in her mind she is in captivity and sex is waning not complaining as we are still good friends and it is more preferable than being destroyed financially in divorce courts and i get to live with my kids, I like how you put it faithful wife i never would have thought of it like this until you posted


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

I can only speak for myself but over the course of my life, I have noticed the ladies do have much lower sex drives compared to us men.

I've heard it and read it over and over, HD hubby desires his wifee, but since she is more LD, sex doesn't happen often and hubby is sex starved. Years of this and hubby starts view porn, maybe a club here and there and flirts with the ladies and at work. LD wifee finds out and gets mad, if you just did this and that more, set conditions and chores, I might be in the mood more. We all know that doesn't change her sex drive. It only gets him to make her feel better and do even more around the house.

In all fairness, I have talked with guys who have HD girlfriends and even after having a baby, they still have high sex drives. These guys are average sex drive, maybe 3 - 4x week.

But overall, men do have higher sex drives compared to the ladies. It's the way we are built. That's why we are bigger, more muscular, stronger, more aggressive, etc. due to our testicles producing testosterone.

I've read posts of LD ladies who didn't really want sex for 10 to 15 years. Then they got it one day, now have a sex drive, but their hubbies checked out long ago and they still wonder why?!

Stereotypes come from fact to a certain extent. If enough people experience something, it gets out there and the stereotype is born.

There are some ladies on TAM who are HD and even ultra HD. Perfect ladies in my books and the ideal women. But that is not the norm, even though I wish it was.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

CuddleBug said:


> Stereotypes come from fact to a certain extent. If enough people experience something, it gets out there and the stereotype is born.


This is true and it's why this stereotype exists. Arguments ensue because it leaves those who don't follow the statistic feeling misrepresented or thinking that everyone else is like them. Some women do want sex more than most people of either gender. I'm sure they'll disagree with this stereotype but rather than disagreeing, I think they should just realize that no one is saying that they specifically are LD.

Another angle to this; I'd buy a stereotype that women want to want sex more than men. There's a distinction between wanting sex versus wanting to want it obviously.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Funnily enough in the Western world women were stereotypically considered to have a voracious appetite for sex up until the 18th century.


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## Want2babettrme (May 17, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Firebelly I will look for links for you for that.



FW, please share for a guy who wants to do things right in his next marriage. (Currently divorcing BPD wife after 28 years. Hardest thing I've ever done and if I should be blessed with another marriage in the future, I don't want to go through this divorce hell ever again.)


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

intheory said:


> At first, he wanted it a bit more. More than once a day. I never needed it more than once a day; and could skip the occasional day or two - especially if bloated and bleeding on my period.
> 
> Don't mistake me. I still had sex with him more than once a day. But *I* only needed to once.
> 
> ...


So in the 'last few years', how often would ideally you like to have it v.s. how often do you actually have it?


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

intheory said:


> The last few years have been weird. He is in his mid-fifties and doesn't really have much of a sex drive. He claims he is tired, stressed, his back hurts, his head hurts, his stomach is bothering him. He says he doesn't think about it all that much.


At his age, maybe he has ED but is hiding it from you out of embarrassment.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

firebelly1 said:


> What's the book? FW What's the research about couples who are successful at keeping the woman's interest over the long term? What are those strategies?


The book I was referring to is "What Women Want" by Daniel Bergner.

It has a lot of, what I consider garbage, to wade through but has some very interesting research and results. There are some very good tips on maintaining female attraction in a LTR.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Women evolved to be serial monogomists. This explains why their sex drive is high at the beginning of a relationship and then frequently drops off. It's the best sexual strategy for females. By liberally dispensing sex, they secure male resources long enough for their offspring to become somewhat self sufficient. The woman meanwhile loses interest in the man, but she is very interested in other men, especially if they are higher status than her current mate. This ensures genetic diversity of her offspring, which increases liklihood of survival. 

Obviosuly, these are generalities and some women will behave differently, but it explains a lot.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Anon1111 said:


> Women evolved to be serial monogomists. This explains why their sex drive is high at the beginning of a relationship and then frequently drops off. It's the best sexual strategy for females. By liberally dispensing sex, they secure male resources long enough for their offspring to become somewhat self sufficient. The woman meanwhile loses interest in the man, but she is very interested in other men, especially if they are higher status than her current mate. This ensures genetic diversity of her offspring, which increases liklihood of survival.
> 
> Obviosly, these are generalities and some women will behave differently, but it explains a lot.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I hear this term spoken many times but wasn't sure what it really meant.. after all I would call myself a Monogomist.....this is just as true of MEN though, definitely.. no gender thing going on here...

Urban Dictionary: serial monogamist



> one who spends as little time as possible being single, moving from the end of one relationship to the beginning of a new relationship as quickly as possible
> 
> although the relationships in which many serial monogamists find themselves are also often short lived, the defining aspect of serial monogamy is the desire and ability to enter new relationships very quickly, thus abbreviating any period of single life during which the serial monogamist may begin to ask questions of an existential nature





> A descriptor for a person who has commitment issues but does not engage in cheating or infidelity. A serial monogamist likes the emotional and physical intimacy of relationships and therefore seeks partners who want a longterm romantic relationship. A serial monogamist may or may not warn their partner about their fear of commitment. (Often the partners foolishly believe they will be able to change this about the serial monogamist.)
> 
> The relationship may be short-lived or it may last a few months to years, however the serial monogamist is always holding back and if the other partner in the romance pushes at all, the serial monogamist will end the relationship swiftly and often without emotion.


I am not one who would enjoy being single...I like to be attached...I want to share life with another.... but I would never call myself a "Serial" monogomist...when I find love, I hold on for dear life.. ALL IN... also I would specifically seek those who feel the same way-with more of a history of long term commitments ...of course it's terribly important we get along well....


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

intheory said:


> Somewhat, yes.
> 
> I haven't been idle since coming to TAM, last spring.
> 
> ...


 You sound like a very loving patient wife Intheory ...he is very blessed to have you, caring about his health so much...being content with what he gives sexually.. there is a book that could be of help in exploring some new ideas.....

 Let Me Count the Ways: Discovering Great Sex Without Intercourse]Let Me Count the Ways: Discovering Great Sex Without Intercourse: Marty Klein, Books



> In this book, two of America's leading sex and gender experts show readers how to make sex more enjoyable by breaking away from the repetitive mechanics of intercourse. The book describes a path toward more a varied, playful, and intimate sexuality, debunking myths such as "impotence," "frigidity," and "foreplay;" indeed, the book shatters the myth that intercourse equals sex itself.
> "Let Me Count The Ways":
> 
> *** defines "outercourse", shows why it is a valuable addition to peoples' sexual vocabulary, and explains how readers can maximize their comfort and pleasure with it.
> ...


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Buddy400 said:


> How about marriages? Do wives in established marriages want sex every bit as much as their husbands?


Not two women are the same. Some may want it less, and some may want it more than their husband.

Sexuality incompatibility is very common, as we see on these threads and both men and women deal with partners who have a different frequency-desire than they do.


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## tbk (Apr 22, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> The book I was referring to is "What Women Want" by Daniel Bergner.
> 
> It has a lot of, what I consider garbage, to wade through but has some very interesting research and results. There are some very good tips on maintaining female attraction in a LTR.


Conan,

I read this book and liked it. I think if women read it, it might make sense to them about what they might be feeling, but don't want to admit. 

However, I don't remember any advice in there? I remember that being kind of the depressing thing


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