# How bad is this?



## Robin Hood (Sep 16, 2013)

I am new to this forum. I have read many of the threads and am impressed by the support and experience and good advice on here, so I thought I would share my own situation and see what people have to say. At this point, I believe there is sort of an affair smoldering between my wife and a mutual friend (former mutual friend, from my perspective), but I'm not sure exactly how bad it is or how far it has progressed -- is it just the beginning of an EA? a full fledged EA? a PA? both? -- and would appreciate some thoughts and advice on that.

Six months ago my wife e-mailed me out of the blue (at least to me) and surprised me and said she wanted to separate. We have been married almost 18 years, and together 21 years. It was love at first sight for both of us, and I feel like it clicked for both of us immediately. We have two girls, ages 14 and 8, who are awesome and that we both love dearly. Leading up to her e-mail saying she wanted to separate, I would have said our marriage was maybe stuck in a rut a little, with some things to work on, but certainly nothing that bad. Never any infidelity on my part, and none on hers that I knew of; no abuse, emotionally or physically; no addiction problems; financial disagreements were present, but no big financial transgressions by either of us. She just simply said she was unhappy, and wanted some time and space. 

I spent 4 months trying to talk her out of moving out, but pretty quickly determined that pretty much all of my efforts were useless. Her mind was made up by the time she told me she wanted to separate, and nothing I could do or say would change this. I still very much love her, and love our family and girls, and we have a beautiful new house that I (mostly I) just bought for us 2-3 years ago, and so I sort of thought we were set, despite a few minor issues we may need to work on. She apparently saw it differently and kept acting like she has been miserable for years (don't know if that's actually true or not -- I don't think it is). She moved out two months ago. My life has been a living hell the last 6 months, and even worse since she moved out. I am constantly alternately devastated/sad, and furious.

Shortly after she told me she wanted to move out (5-6 months ago), I asked her if she was cheating on me. I blurted it out in the middle of a heated conversation (not the way to do it, I know now). She said no in the heat of the moment. I have no idea if this was truthful or not. Awhile later I asked her if anything was going on at her work -- she had started a new job a few months before she told me she wanted to move out, and I really have little feel for the other men she may be around in her new office. This time I asked her calmly, not during a fight, and literally face to face and looking her in the eye, and she answered no, and I actually believed her the way she reacted and said it, and still sort of believe her on this. She NEVER stays late at work, or works on weekends, etc.

There are/were two mutual friends, that I immediately suspected that if anything was going on, one of these two guys would be likely candidates. I actually went thru her phone quickly one time (I NEVER do this), about 5 months ago, and saw these two guys in there, but limited and appropriate texts, and limited phone calls. The one guy who I was actually more worried about is recently divorced, but is in another relationship living with a woman, and I really don't think anything is going on with him.

The other guy however -- also recently divorced and a bit of a party guy and neighborhood playboy -- has recently caused me much concern. After returning from a trip out of town with my girls (my wife did not come), I was told by two friends that they saw my wife jogging with this other guy -- and one friend said they stopped and talked for a minute (bc they literally ran into each other) and she and her husband definitely got a weird vibe from it. My wife has never been jogging with this guy before -- she and I jog together, and she knows I would not like this, especially with this guy. Then about a week later, I picked my eldest daughter up from somewhere, and she says this guys' kids had been hanging out with her and others, which is a little weird bc this was a school hangout and his kids don't go to school with my kids. I asked my daughter how it was his kids were there, and she said "it was weird", that she saw him drop his girls off up the street from the kids' hangout, like he didn't want to be seen, and then rushed off like in a hurry. I was immediately concerned bc I knew my wife was jogging at that exact time during our other daughters' soccer practice. I have since learned (she admitted when I confronted her) that this other guy did meet her to go jogging that day. That day she was wearing a skin tight jogging outfit that is quite flattering and suggestive.

Prior to my wife saying she wanted to move out, almost a year ago, this other guy was at our house with some friends after being out to dinner as a group. There was a lot of drinking going on. My wife came out on our back deck where I was sitting with some people, and went to sit down, and as she did I saw this other guy who was also sitting there grab and pat her butt. She froze a little as he did it, but then smiled a little, and sat down. At the time I was not concerned about it (this was before our marital troubles started, as far as I knew), and was actually a little flattered by it. Oh, this neighborhood party guy likes my wife or thinks she's hot, I thought. I was pretty secure in our relationship at the time and so not concerned. Then with the jogging incidents and our separation, I've become a lot more concerned.

Then just about a week ago I picked my youngest daughter up one morning for a soccer game, from my wife's place, and she proceeds to tell me (I didn't ask or draw it out of her) that last night was a "crazy night" with the adults doing lots of drinking and smoking (my wife's sister and her boyfriend were there from out of town). And then she says this other guy -- the jogging and butt pat guy -- was also there. She says he arrived at about midnight, and stayed until 2:00 or 2:30 am, and she saw him talking on the back deck with my wife and sister's boyfriend (sister was passed out). No one else was there other than my daughters.

I confronted my wife about it the next day over the phone (I wanted to set up a confrontation in person, but couldn't help it and asked her about it over the phone). Her immediate reaction was extremely defensive and hostile, and yelling at me "You can't tell me what to do!" I told her yes, I could, in this area, and set up a time to talk in person the next day when her sister was gone. Our meeting the next day didn't go well. I asked her what was up with this guy, and she just glibly said nothing, and acted all offended that I was even asking her about it. she admitted she had texted him and invited him over to her place that night, and that he was there until about 2:30 am. She admitted to jogging with him " a couple few times", but nothing more. I asked what the butt pat was all about almost a year ago, and she blurted out loudly, "Oh, he's just a flirt!"

I have demanded that she end all communications with this guy -- no seeing him at all, no texts, no e-mails, no phone calls, nothing. At first she didn't respond when I demanded this, and then finally about 4-5 days later, when we were fighting bc I was confronting her about not agreeing to zero contact with the guy, she begrudgingly agreed to no contact. But she said she might still wave to him bc he lives close by. This guy actually lives 5 doors down from her place -- which is beyond weird to me. I'm not sure that I trust her when she says she won't have further contact with him.

This other guy is sort of a fun guy, and reasonably good looking, but I don't think she would ever go for this guy long term over me. My guess would be that my relative "sex rank" to him might be pretty close, but probably favorable to me. He really doesn't have much personality, and my wife loves lots of personality. And his current work and income picture is pretty funky (an alleged general contractor), although he may have some money in the bank. My guess is that my wife is flattered by his attention, but does not see him as anything serious. Approx 6 yrs ago, when I first met this guy thru others, multiple people told me to watch this guy, and keep him away from your wife, he's a homewrecker. People have also told me they've seen him with his hands all over other attractive married women at a local swimming pool.

My wife and I had probably been to this guy's house dozens of time before he was divorced, and before all this started. He's probably been to our house 10 times or so. He has thrown some pretty wild parties, and is known to go to parties, bars, concerts, at all hours of the day and night. He has driven my wife home from parties a few times over the years when she was too drunk too drive -- but I believe also always when my kids were also around, or I was around. But I'm wondering if he's been flirting with her, hitting on her, or grabbing her butt, when I'm not there to see, over the last few years. I don't know about this, but just a hunch now.

Well, that's enough for now. My wife was raised as a Catholic school good girl, and so her having a full on PA with this guy does not fit to me. But on the other hand, she has been checked out on me and mean as a snake for 6 months, and obviously this other guy is sniffing around, and she's even allowing or inviting it. Let me know your thoughts.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

Well your Radar is up so I would look into this further. You can do a little more work check on the phone, put a keylogger on her phone and a VAR in her car.

This usually will turn up something. So what is the endgame are you going to D or does she want a D are you or her in IC or MC?


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## Robin Hood (Sep 16, 2013)

I want to reconcile. She says she does too, but I don't know if she really does at this point, although she keeps threatening divorce but doesn't do it. We have done 3 joint marriage counseling sessions -- she cut it off and won't do more. I have been in regular individual counseling for a few months. She was in individual counseling too, but not so much lately, I think.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

So your wife moved out two months ago after telling you she wasn't happy? And now you *think* she's screwing another guy? 

Sounds to me like she's a coward who has decided to keep you on the back burner and string you along in case this new guy gets boring.

File for divorce. Now. Maybe THAT will wake her up. Cheaters do not think like normal people while they're in what's called 'the fog'. Pleading and begging will only drive her farther away.

Get STD tested also. Who knows when they first had sex. Probably before she moved out.


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

I hate to agree, but it would be surprising if she did NOT have an affair.

Hope said it, you need to file and move ahead for a D. Right now you are only a safety net for her.

It will amaze you at the things you will find as you start looking. It will hurt. Don't be afraid of it, because hiding from it will make it worse.

If she is a walk-away type, there was nothing you could really do to stop it.

As bad as it seems, do NOT chase after her. She will run faster, and it will make it worse. IMO.

Damn it. We see these things so many, many times here on TAM. 

YOU need to read up on the 180 concepts.

Sorry you are here. Many of us have lived this story too.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

Yea very rarely do the words "she wants to move out" come out of the mouth of a person that isn't getting his or her needs met outside of a marriage. And I don't mean need for conversation. She is setting up an exit strategy to see she wants this OM over you. She wants a separation because she gets to have a trial run before recommitting or leaving. 
So what do you want? If you want this woman in your life who has slept with this other man, then you need to stop being nice and realize you are at war for your marriage. The war is between you and your wife. You have to turn her Affair from this fantasy reality she is in. Into the single worst decision she has ever made. You need to send all of the info you have to her parents, close mutual friends, and the OMW if he has one. 
the longer you allow this relationship to go on without exposing her, the less likely she is to come back into the marriage. 
If you are looking for a way out then just keep on doing what you are doing. GAther evidence get a lawyer and dump her butt on the curb.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

I realise this isn't the most important point; but you may need to re-think your and his "sex-rank".



Robin Hood said:


> My wife came out on our back deck where I was sitting with some people, and went to sit down, and as she did I saw this other guy who was also sitting there grab and pat her butt. She froze a little as he did it, but then smiled a little, and sat down. At the time I was not concerned about it (this was before our marital troubles started, as far as I knew), and was actually a little flattered by it.


He grabbed your wife's arse in front of you - her reaction and yours leaves you no room for complacency.

Your WW has already introduced POSOM to your children and begun with her family. *You are being replaced. *

Strong determined action is needed from you; either file for divorce to get her attention or have her move back to the home and commit to marriage counselling.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Sorry you are here, but glad you found us.

One thing that seems common is that people often down grade when they pick an affair partner. So if your wife has an AP it might not be who you think it is. Though playboy might know she's on the market and could be putting the make on her, trying to edge her lover out.

People like him will see a cheating wife (especially a separated one) as fair game.

This is not good for your daughters.

Get your ducks in a row to see how you can protect your daughters from your wife and her friends/families drunken antics.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

Robin Hood said:


> I want to reconcile. She says she does too, but I don't know if she really does at this point, although she keeps threatening divorce but doesn't do it. We have done 3 joint marriage counseling sessions -- she cut it off and won't do more. I have been in regular individual counseling for a few months. She was in individual counseling too, but not so much lately, I think.


Her not going to MC is a red flag, file for a D right away and you need to do the 180.

Get checked for STD's at this point I would not believe anything she is going to tell you about this POS


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Hope1964 said:


> So your wife moved out two months ago after telling you she wasn't happy? And now you *think* she's screwing another guy?
> 
> Sounds to me like she's a coward who has decided to keep you on the back burner and string you along in case this new guy gets boring.
> 
> ...


If you didn't see it or glanced over it because it's not what you want to hear, I copied it again just for you. You're plan B if the other guy doesn't want to be saddled down with a woman with 2 kids. If he's a party animal, he'll use her then throw her away like yesterday's trash. Then she'll come running back, playing the saint saying she finally sees the light and you're the love of her life.

Same script over and over again. BTW, she'll never cop to it, she'll deny it unless you have cold hard proof there was an affair.

5 doors down, I'm willing to put money on it that the deed's been done already. How does she just conveniently move out and is only 5 doors down from the OM....Seriously, you're going to believe it was totally blind luck that it happened that way.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

CH said:


> If you didn't see it or glanced over it because it's not what you want to hear, I copied it again just for you. You're plan B if the other guy doesn't want to be saddled down with a woman with 2 kids. If he's a party animal, he'll use her then throw her away like yesterday's trash. Then she'll come running back, playing the saint saying she finally sees the light and you're the love of her life.
> 
> Same script over and over again. BTW, she'll never cop to it, she'll deny it unless you have cold hard proof there was an affair.
> 
> 5 doors down, I'm willing to put money on it that the deed's been done already. How does she just conveniently move out and is only 5 doors down from the OM....Seriously, you're going to believe it was totally blind luck that it happened that way.


I bet her found the property for her, or told her when it was coming available.

You could always out him on CheaterVille :: Don't Be the Last to Know. Some members on TAM have had some good measures of success with that.


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## Refuse to be played (Jun 7, 2013)

Your wife moved out and now lives 5 doors down from a player type dude who in the past grabbed her a-- in front of you? Sigh. You need to investigate. I doubt you'll have to try very hard to find some evidence.

Where do your kids stay? With you or at her place?


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## Thebes (Apr 10, 2013)

I think your being cheated on. If you take her back and she will come back after he is finished with her what are you going to do. If she's not happy with you will there be another one?


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Have you talked to the OM? Your wife is not respecting you at all. The way to get to the bottom is to file for divorce, to see if your wife wakes up from her affair fog.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

File.

You are in open marriage. She is acting like a single person. Stop demanding anything. You look foolish and un-appealing. Just file. If she wants to act single, she should be single.

If she wakes up and wants to reunite, go slow. If not. just move on.


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## ironman (Feb 6, 2013)

Robin Hood, Robin Hood, Robin Hood ... a guy, in your house, grabbed your wife's ass right in front of you? I would have knocked his front teeth out right then and there if I were you. But that's water under the bridge now.

If you're asking if she's had an affair, then I'd say the odds are very, very high.... like 98%+. Let's look at what you've said ...

1) Playboy gropes her
2) She says she is miserable out of the blue
3) She moves out right next to playboy
4) Playboy seen jogging with her and hanging out late with her

See a common theme here? Usually, when they hit you with the out of the blue "I'm miserable" or "I'm love you but I'm not in love with you" line, then they are already in an affair. The fact that they have someone else on the side is what gives a cheater the courage to say these things. The fact that she was immediately ready to move out also tells me that she was "deep in the fog" at that time ... meaning deeply involved with another man.

I am sorry you are here.

So she's had an affair. The question now is ... what do you want to do about it?


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## Robin Hood (Sep 16, 2013)

Gentlemen, gentlemen, gentlemen. Wow. I was afraid you were all going to say what you're saying. I hear you all, and thank you for your thoughts. Let me answer or respond to a few of your good questions or points.

"So your wife moved out two months ago after telling you she wasn't happy? And now you *think* she's screwing another guy?"

Ok, a lot of you guys are saying this, and I hear you. Do you all really think that moving out, treating me like s---, and another POS guy handing around in the wings AUTOMATICALLY means she is full on physical with him? It may be, you guys have more experience with this than me, but the one thing I can't wrap my mind around is how these little "jogging dates" fit into the picture. Let's say my wife and this guy have been physical for awhile, since before she told me she wanted to move out. If that were true, and so they've already done the most un-innocent thing you can do, would you really go from that to some little jogging date? I know your first response would be, well that weren't really "jogging", but I know for a fact on the incident where they jogged together when I was picking up my daughter and she told me about him dropping his kids off in a weird, surreptitious way, that she was home on time -- I brought my eldest to her place and she arrived timely with our youngest at the same time and on time -- and she wasn't disheveled or anything like they had had sex on the jogging trail or something. So would she really go from f---ing the guy to just jogging with him? Seems like a weird progression to me.

Maybe I'm in denial or reaching here, but this puzzles me.


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## Robin Hood (Sep 16, 2013)

"As bad as it seems, do NOT chase after her. She will run faster, and it will make it worse. IMO."

Yeah, a lot of you are saying this, and I now agree. I was in full chase mode for awhile. But I have started to figure out this isn't working, and am now starting to tell her I'm not sure if I necessarily want her back, and have hinted that I might be interested in a divorce now. I sense this might be getting her attention a little more.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

You are in denial. I understand, I was there for a while myself.

Your best bet at getting her head out of her a$$ and his d!ck out of her is to take strong and decisive actions. 

Do the 180.
Speak to an attorney.
Work on yourself


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## Robin Hood (Sep 16, 2013)

"then you need to stop being nice and realize you are at war for your marriage. The war is between you and your wife. You have to turn her Affair from this fantasy reality she is in. Into the single worst decision she has ever made. You need to send all of the info you have to her parents, close mutual friends, and the OMW if he has one. 
the longer you allow this relationship to go on without exposing her, the less likely she is to come back into the marriage."

Ok, I've done a little exposing of this affair (assuming it is one) already, but not full-fledged yet. I've told a few mutual friends of ours, and a couple of the POS OM's friends. I think she might know I told one mutual friend couple (who told me the other man was a "creepy snake" and they totally had my back) bc she recently lit into me about talking to this couple. 

Do you guys think that exposing the affair, or whatever it is, to everyone actually works? I do actually want to do that, bc this situation is totally ridiculous, and I'm pretty sure pretty much EVERYONE we know will see it that way. Or will doing that backfire on me somehow?

The POS OM is recently divorced, but I'm dying to talk to his ex-wife, who I'm pretty sure would know something (about my wife and her ex), and am pretty sure would not approve. My wife has gone to dinner with her once or twice since all this has started -- I'm not sure if to cover her tracks or what.

There are a ton of people I can think of who would not approve of my wife having anything to do with this OM -- it's sort of a tight social circle -- and so I'd love to expose this to the rooftops. But am not sure about the long term impact if my wife and I actually do end up staying together,


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Robin Hood said:


> Gentlemen, gentlemen, gentlemen. Wow. I was afraid you were all going to say what you're saying. I hear you all, and thank you for your thoughts. Let me answer or respond to a few of your good questions or points.
> 
> "So your wife moved out two months ago after telling you she wasn't happy? And now you *think* she's screwing another guy?"
> 
> ...


Or she is having an affair with someone else. And the Jogging Playboy is also trying to get a piece of the action?

Once a wife becomes a cheater other men will hit on them. 

Why? Because they are considered to be fair game and relatively easy meat.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Robin Hood said:


> Six months ago my wife e-mailed me out of the blue (at least to me) and surprised me and said she wanted to separate.


I don't understand why she emailed you?

At the time you were both living together, isn't that right? So instead of just saying to you "I want to separate" and having a conversation about it, she types it on her computer?


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"Maybe I'm in denial"

This.

OP this is almost definitely a full on PA and probably started well before she wanted to separate.

File for D and only communicate with her about kids and the D proceedings.

Expose the A to both of your families and all mutual friends.

They won't be shocked (friends), they've been warning you about this POS for years.


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## Robin Hood (Sep 16, 2013)

"YOU need to read up on the 180 concepts."

Where can I find these?


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## Robin Hood (Sep 16, 2013)

"I don't understand why she emailed you?

At the time you were both living together, isn't that right? So instead of just saying to you "I want to separate" and having a conversation about it, she types it on her computer?" 

Exactly. Pretty bizarre, eh? I made her meet me at the house that day and tell me in person what was going on. Her in person explanation made little sense, and she has wanted to communicate primarily by e-mail and text ever since and throughout this ordeal.

She says I get too upset, or am too much in person -- like too intimidating or overbearing. I think it just means she doesn't want to face me in person with her bs.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

They jog together because they want to be around each other.

If you have access to her apartment you need to hide a sony VAR there to hear what is going on. Can you put one in her apt and car.? You will find out in no time what is going on.

Is she on your phone bill? Check texts, phone numbers etc.


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## Robin Hood (Sep 16, 2013)

"He grabbed your wife's arse in front of you - her reaction and yours leaves you no room for complacency.

Your WW has already introduced POSOM to your children and begun with her family. You are being replaced."

Yeah, he grabbed her butt in front of me. I honestly was not concerned at the time -- that's how confident I was in our marriage. A few other lame asses have taken a run at her over the years, and I've pretty much always laughed -- and rightly so. I really was not being some naïve *****. But no I realize I miscalculated with this POS guy. 


Your point about him being there in front of my kids at her place is right on. The gall of this guy -- and my wife, who fashions herself as some mother of the century -- just blows my mind. Should I tell him he is to have no contact with my kids? Should I go now and beat the crap out of him? Believe me, all options have crossed my mind. I texted him right after I found out about him being at her place until 2:30 am and said "[his name], please respect me and my family" He never responded. I also went and knocked on his door twice this past week -- he wouldn't answer the door.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"I also went and knocked on his door twice this past week -- he wouldn't answer the door."

Because he is a complete p***y.

This should be all the proof your mind needs that he is banging your WW.

I think you should tell him and WW that you know about the A, and if this POS is EVER around your kids again you will make him regret it til his dying day.


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## Robin Hood (Sep 16, 2013)

Or she is having an affair with someone else. And the Jogging Playboy is also trying to get a piece of the action?

Once a wife becomes a cheater other men will hit on them. 

Why? Because they are considered to be fair game and relatively easy meat." 

MattMatt, this is an interesting observation, and a scenario I have considered. Like I said, loser playboy guy seems beneath my wife, but maybe he's just circling bc he knows she's carrying on with someone else, and he smells a chance to get in on the action.

But if so, I have no idea who the real OM might be at this point.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Well, you have a lot of circumstantial evidence, but nothing solid. No truly smoking gun. Check out your cell phone records for her activity in the time leading up to her declaration. See if you can recover deleted emails for the computer hard drive. See if there's a phone backup that you can pull messaged from. You don't really know just quite what you are dealing with.

If you play your cards right, she might confess without having rock solid evidence. It is rare though, and you need to act with certainty to pull it off. Depends what she really wants deep down, and what she truly believes about you. The 180 is a concept from Michelle Weiner-Davis, google her and you ought to find something useful.

You kind of need to figure out what you want though. Can you reconcile? Under what circumstances? What's a deal breaker? 

Work on yourself in the mean time. Get healthy, visit your doctor, get your head on straight. What role could you have played in the deterioration of your marriage (this is not your fault, I'm just saying we can all do better if we are honest with ourselves)? Did you find you kind of neglected your own needs, hoping they would get met as you tried to meet your families' needs?


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Robin Hood said:


> Ok, a lot of you guys are saying this, and I hear you. Do you all really think that moving out, treating me like s---, and another POS guy handing around in the wings AUTOMATICALLY means she is full on physical with him?


Here's the thing my man. When a woman separates/moves without the cause being abuse, drugs, etc., out means she's lost romantic interest in you. A woman who is in love with her man doesn't want to move out. Since she has lost romantic interest in you, their is no incentive for her to be loyal.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

Robin Hood said:


> But no I realize I miscalculated with this POS guy.


Good, that's the only lesson for the future. 



> Should I tell him he is to have no contact with my kids?


You can't, but perhaps your lawyer can?

It's good you're getting angry. You realise you're getting played. You've done nothing to be treated like this. And neither have your two daughters. But for now the POS is the wrong target. POSOM are like vampire's; yes they're bad news and deserve a stake through where their hearts ought to be, but...

... they can never enter your house unless someone let's them in.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Just read the last few posts.

Do not get violent, for any reason. It is not worth it, and it will solve nothing in the end. It will likely make things much, much worse.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"MattMatt, this is an interesting observation, and a scenario I have considered. Like I said, loser playboy guy seems beneath my wife, but maybe he's just circling bc he knows she's carrying on with someone else, and he smells a chance to get in on the action.

But if so, I have no idea who the real OM might be at this point."

This is POSSIBLE, but the more likely scenario is that you have the POSOM identified exactly.

He is hiding from you because he knows you are on to him now.

If he was innocent, he would have no reason to hide.

This is the POS, no matter how surprised you are at your foolish WW's choice of AP.


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## Robin Hood (Sep 16, 2013)

Azteca --

... they can never enter your house unless someone to let's them in.[/QUOTE]

Right, I get that all too much, unfortunately.


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## Robin Hood (Sep 16, 2013)

"MattMatt, this is an interesting observation, and a scenario I have considered. Like I said, loser playboy guy seems beneath my wife, but maybe he's just circling bc he knows she's carrying on with someone else, and he smells a chance to get in on the action.

But if so, I have no idea who the real OM might be at this point."

This is POSSIBLE, but the more likely scenario is that you have the POSOM identified exactly.

He is hiding from you because he knows you are on to him now.

If he was innocent, he would have no reason to hide.

This is the POS, no matter how surprised you are at your foolish WW's choice of AP."

Thanks, Dyokemm, makes sense.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

Robin Hood said:


> Right, I get that all too much, unfortunately.


Don't focus on him for now. He is the OM, by the way, that's why he was invited over for that 'couples' night your youngest told you about. Don't worry about him for the minute.

At a minimum you have to impress on your wife that she has to keep her boyfriend away from your daughters. The advice of a lawyer would be a good next step.


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## Robin Hood (Sep 16, 2013)

"5 doors down, I'm willing to put money on it that the deed's been done already. How does she just conveniently move out and is only 5 doors down from the OM....Seriously, you're going to believe it was totally blind luck that it happened that way."

Yeah, this is a truly bizarre head scratcher. I have not done a full investigation on this, but it appears POSSIBLE that it was a random coincidence (I know, I sound naïve). Neither was living in their present locations, two sfr's 5 doors apart, until the last two months. My wife rented a place, and he bought a place. Best as I can tell, she was engaged in negotiations to rent her place, and he was engaged in negotiations to buy his place, at about the exact same time (late May/early June) -- possibly she was slightly ahead of him in time, but unclear. So is it just an incredible coincidence, or did one, or both, of them plan it this way? Hmmmm.


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## Robin Hood (Sep 16, 2013)

Thanks Azteca, good advice


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## Robin Hood (Sep 16, 2013)

"Where do your kids stay? With you or at her place?" 

Right now the kids are splitting time between us, but a majority of the time they are with her. I don't like this, and have said so all along. I relented when she moved out bc I thought it might help get her back. Now I realize that mistake, and have been fighting for more kids time. I get 2 nights per week right now, plus a lot of activities, and occasional extra nights depending on circumstances. 

The kids issue will be WWIII in any divorce proceeding. But I'm wondering if she'll flinch if I press the POSOM issue.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

Robin Hood said:


> Gentlemen, gentlemen, gentlemen. Wow. I was afraid you were all going to say what you're saying. I hear you all, and thank you for your thoughts. Let me answer or respond to a few of your good questions or points.
> 
> "So your wife moved out two months ago after telling you she wasn't happy? And now you *think* she's screwing another guy?"
> 
> ...


Yeah, that's exactly what it means. Add all the evidence up and you are being played right in front of not just your eyes, but all the people you call friends. You can bet your last dollar they saw this coming a long time before you did. Hell, a lot of them probably facilitated and encouraged her adulterous ways.

Hmph, a guy pats my wife's ass in plain view of me, and with a smile from my wife in response?

Blood will spill. I promise that.

Pull your head out of your ass.

So, what do you want here?


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey robin hood---what is wrong with you---some guy grabs my wife's butt---he comes out of there with a broken wrist----what that did, by you doing nothing is show your wife, other men can handle her, and you don't care---and do not give me a lame answer in that you were confident in your mge---I guess your confidence melted away real fast---and that incident is just part of your problem----NO ONE HANDLES YOUR WIFE---NO ONE

You need to do a POLY---go to the police station---they will help you on getting a good operator

2 things---either your wife comes home and stops all this nonsense about her need to be alone---or she can be alone permanently as in D

Either she is married and with you and the girls or she is not---she doesn't get it both ways

By being on her own --she can do whatever, AND YOU WILL NEVER KNOW

Stop with ALL YOUR EXCUSES FOR WHAT IS GOING ON---you just are refusing to face facts----your wife is cheating on you---OTHERWISE SHE WOULD BE AT HOME LIVING WITH YOU


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

When will she become no longer your problem?

When can you let her go and put an once of doubt IN HER that you will no longer be there for her?

Wishing her the best with a smile on your face and a nice pear of clothes and a hair cut when you drop the kids off???

Dude I get it, but you have to fake it to make it, and as long as your old lady thinks you ain;t going any were she will phuck with your head.

Go out and meet new poeple, disengage WW, and give your kids a better example of a happy and confident father. Hell maybe find a nice girl that you can bear witness to what a healthy relationship is for your kids.

This new additude just might save your marriage in the long run, once she has had her fill with Mr. loverboy. Cuz we all know that this POS ain't planing on growing old with your old lady and the sooner your chick figures this out the better. And she ain't going to even try to figure anything out cuz Robin Hood will always be there no matter how much he b1tchs and complains about her boyfriend/boyfriends.


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## Robin Hood (Sep 16, 2013)

Ok, ok, a lot of you can't believe the butt pat right in front of me. And believe, I can't either, now. But at the time it didn't freak me out, and not bc I am a wus. Nothing like this had ever happened before. And to tell you the truth, here's the weird part, it actually sort of _turned me on a little bit at the time. My wife had actually started being a tad more sexually adventurous at the time, and I liked that, and this butt pat seemed like more of that at the time. She and I actually had a pretty good go that night. Now I feel stupid._


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

Robin Hood said:


> Ok, ok, a lot of you can't believe the butt pat right in front of me. And believe, I can't either, now. But at the time it didn't freak me out, and not bc I am a wus. Nothing like this had ever happened before. And* to tell you the truth, here's the weird part, it actually sort of turned me on a little bit at the time. My wife had actually started being a tad more sexually adventurous at the time, and I liked that, and this butt pat seemed like more of that at the time. She and I actually had a pretty good go that night.*_ Now I feel stupid._


_

Why in the name of God would another man patting your wife's ass right in front of you "sort of turn you on"?

Yeah, you should feel stupid, and I mean seriously stupid!

Damn dude, just how old are you anyway.......15?

Just SMH

They are laughing their asses off at you right now._


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

Okay gents, that incident is in the past. Stick around Robin Hood, what's done is done. 

I'm off to bed.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

OP,

I think the butt pat thing is confusing to me for primarily one reason only.

Like you, I have also seen similar things with my gf's and never took it too seriously. And I was not wrong about it ever, as in not one case did it become a prelude to a cheating situation. GF's weren't interested and it ended up just being some drunken moron acting like an a**.

But in your case, you had already been warned about this POS by mutual friends beforehand. In a case like that, you cannot ignore flirting or inappropriate actions.

I was once there too. A guy I knew was a scumbag who messed with other women started flirting heavily with my then gf and trying to corner her in the club several times to continue spinning his bs. Got a little touchy.

After the third time I approached them (she was a little buzzed and seemed to not recognize how aggressive he was being), I stopped him as he tried to slink away like he had the two previous times and told him if he approached her again I was gonna crack him in the jaw.

He tried to play all innocent, but he never went near her again.

Point is...you CANNOT ignore a known dog when he comes sniffing around.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

My $0.02

I have beat the snot of some guys for screwing with my wife in front of me, and I have had my @ss handed to me on a silver plate for protecting my marriage, I have even beat my wife for what a guy did infront of me............

At the end of the day it is how our old ladies handles it, its always her choice to keep her eyes down and ignore the advances, or slap the sh1t out of some guy, or just smile a laugh.....

Shame on her!!!!!!!!!!

for her lack of boundries


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I thinks its time to state your boundries loud and clear and the consequences for when they are crossed.

It will be up to your old lady to save her marriage and commit to these boundries or go pound sand.

When I was going thru this crap I was more then happy to help Mrs. the-guy pack her crap.

Sure it took some time to get to that place in my head, but it paid off in the long run.

I hope I can help you save some time by informing you how confident you need to be in "just letting her go" to save your marriage.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Butt-pats are mostly indicative of an already existing "familiarity." The one that he gave her that night long ago at your domicile certainly wasn't the first, and it damn well wasn't the last. And while she had the God-given ability to slap the crap out of him right then and there; well, my friend, it didn't exactly happen! So what in blue- blazing hell does that tell you?

No matter how well that she tries to rug sweep, my perception is that she's been nailing this guy for quite some time, and I can't help but feel that his presence in her life is the true reason for your separation, greatly like in my own personal situation.

You can do a lot of the detective work yourself, but you can also hire a detective, who can probably substantiate a lot for you in a rather short amount of time. 

Since this guy has been around her for an inordinate period of time, I would think that they are deemed to be a pair ~ she hasn't exactly run his ass off yet. But I can't help but believe that it's all too likely that they are and have been doing "the nasty" on a fairly perpetual basis, probably being done on a combination of his turf, her turf in the absence of the kids, or off in hotels!

There just seems to be way too much circumstancial evidence there that would greatly warrant, at an absolute minimum, the presence of an ongoing PA/EA. Gather the evidence, then hammer her lousy ass in court for custody of those daughters. They sure as hell don't need a role model like her! And provided that it's an "at-fault hearing," no self-respecting judge would ever cave in to her cheating rationale on this one!*


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> *Butt-pats are mostly indicative of "familiarity." The one he gave her that night long ago certainly wasn't the first, and it damn well wasn't the last.
> 
> No matter how well she tries to rugsweep, my perception is that she's been nailing this guy for quite a while, and I can't help but feel that his presence in her life is the true reason for your separation, greatly like in my personal situation.
> 
> ...


Are anyone else's eyes bleeding trying to read this?

ETA- And now you change it before I can hit post. LOL


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## Refuse to be played (Jun 7, 2013)

Robin Hood said:


> "Where do your kids stay? With you or at her place?"
> 
> Right now the kids are splitting time between us, but a majority of the time they are with her. I don't like this, and have said so all along. I relented when she moved out bc I thought it might help get her back. Now I realize that mistake, and have been fighting for more kids time. I get 2 nights per week right now, plus a lot of activities, and occasional extra nights depending on circumstances.
> 
> The kids issue will be WWIII in any divorce proceeding. But I'm wondering if she'll flinch if I press the POSOM issue.


You need to change this *NOW*! Your still staying in the family home correct? You should have never let her move them out. She wants to live like she's single find let her and cut off any support for her. You and the kids will be should be a family at home. You're making it a helluva lot easier for her to get primary custody if/when it comes to divorce. As a man you're already at a disadvantage in a custody fight, no need to tie your hand behind your back too.

Next time you have them, if you were to keep them and not let them go back I'm not sure what she would be able to do. You are still technically in the family home I guess. I don't know, I don't have kids (thank god). Anyone know how this scenario could go down?


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

3putt said:


> \
> Hmph, a guy pats my wife's ass in plain view of me, and with a smile from my wife in response?


That's a level of disrespect I couldn't tolerate. That pause was to make sure he didn't see and she smiled. 

"Haha, my affair partner is here, grabbed my butt and my hubby didn't see or was too scared to do anything."

While this might not be true, that is where my mind went when I read the story.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Robin Hood, I'm sorry. She is definitely having sex with this guy.

You got the right guy. The one she is jogging with. The one who used to drive her home when she was drunk. The one who grabbed her butt and elicited a smile from her. The one she texted to come over to the house while she was drinking.

Let's start with the texting to come over to drink. Your wife's sister was there with her husband. They started drinking. Your wife had a few drinks. Decided to text this guy to come over. Why him? Why not you? Why not someone else? Why anyone? Wasn't she comfortable enough drinking with only her sister and her brother-in-law? Did she need another guy so it would be like a double date?

The reason she texted him to come over was because she was feeling horny. That's what alcohol does to people, both men and women, it increases the libido. Look it up if you have to, I know it from years and years of seeing it. Alcohol increases the libido and it decreases inhibitions and it impairs judgment. I'm not saying she had sex with him that night with her sister there and your daughter awake, but maybe she did if she could have gotten away with it. At the very least, she had the urge and called this guy. SHE CHOSE THIS GUY, SHE TEXTED HIM TO COME OVER.

If I had to guess, she leaves your 14-year-old in charge of your younger daughter and goes out to see this guy for an hour or so. Or she limits it to the nights you have the kids. Maybe she has nooners with him.

Yes, she planned to move next to him. She knew he was buying that house. They text each other, they jog together. This was not some happy coincidence.

This is getting long, but you threw so much stuff out there that ALL STINKS. For one, the grabbing of the butt - would you ever do that to another man's wife? How drunk would you have to be to do something like that? Unless you were already very familiar with her, already very touchy-feely with her, already sure she wouldn't get mad. And your wife's reaction - she was annoyed that you and others would see, then relaxed when you didn't make a biggie out of it.

Another thing, he used to drive her home when she was too drunk to drive. Not sure of your timeline, but it sounded like that is where it started. What a racket being "too drunk" is for cheaters. Helps explain away quite a bit. If he grabbed her butt in front of you, what do you think he did when she was drunk in the car. Did I mention that drunk women are horny? When you were single, didn't you ever try to get women drunk? My guess is that the affair started there, on those drives, with your wife impaired by alcohol, using bad judgment, with her libido increased and her inhibitions lowered.

Another thing, she emailed you to separate from you. That struck me like a bullet between the eyes. What??? Didn't even have the guts to face your??? And now she likes to communicate by email and text. You know why? It's actually a good sign. SHE FEELS GUILTY about cheating on you, and you have been so blind to the affair and so gullible, she actually FEELS SORRY FOR YOUR CLUELESS @SS. She can't bear to look at your gullible face and lie to you.

I'm not trying to be especially brutal with you, I'm posting the same things I would say to a brother or a friend who came to me with your story.

Another thing, the jogging. Why do you think they would have sex when they jogged together? This guy isn't having sex with your wife EVERY SINGLE TIME he sees her. She is NOT just a piece of @ss to him. He is romancing her. He got her to move out on you. She loves you, but she doesn't have that "in love" feeling for you. You are the father of her children, a great father, a good provider, and a good man. She feels guilty about that, but this guy gave her the butterflies in the stomach. So this is what your wife figured: I'll separate, then I will see if I miss my husband, if my "in love" feelings start to return for him. But you smothered her, so she never feels in jeopardy of losing you (never mind how @ss backwards this sounds TO YOU for a married woman to feel, it is how her mind is working). The other biggest thing is that she continued to see other man (he gave her the butterflies).

She is threatening divorce. Alternates it with telling you she wants to reconcile. She is in no hurry to dump you. She has what she wants for now - attention and sex and fun times with other guy, and you to watch the kids two nights a week while she goes on dates with him and has sex with him. This is a good deal for her. And she still loves you for being a good man, but not sexually or romantically. But make no mistake, each day that passes, she gets closer to wanting to divorce rather than reconcile.

Meanwhile, you have other man typecast as the divorced playboy. I don't buy it. Do you know if he is dating anyone else right now? I am guessing it is only your wife right now. He jogs with her because she ASKS him to, and he knows if he does, it opens the door for him to have sex with her, maybe not the same day, but a different day, or later that night when she leaves the 14-year-old with your younger daughter to "go to the store."

If you have regular access to her car without her seeing what you're doing, plant a voice-activated recorder. You will get your answer in a week.

If you have access to joint bank accounts, joint phone bills, emails, etc., check on those, too. If she is smart, she is using a chat app that doesn't show on the phone bill, deleting her emails, or communicating from work.

As far as your dealings with her, she has to feel like she may actually lose you. Given your history with your wife, it will take quite a bit to convince her of that. If you try to fake it, you better be good at it, because if you're not she will see right through it. If another woman was showing interest in you, that would probably help. The more you push your wife away, the more she will be likely to want to rope you back in.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

badbane said:


> Yea very rarely do the words "she wants to move out" come out of the mouth of a person that isn't getting his or her needs met outside of a marriage. ......


This is just untrue. People, men and women, move out and leave marriages quite often without involved with someone else. It means that they are unhappy in their marriage and have given up.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> *Butt-pats are mostly indicative of "familiarity." The one he gave her that night long ago certainly wasn't the first, and it damn well wasn't the last. And she had the God-given ability to slap the crap out of him right then and there! Well, it didn't happen! What in the hell does that tell you?
> 
> No matter how well she tries to rugsweep, my perception is that she's been nailing this guy for quite a while, and I can't help but feel that his presence in her life is the true reason for your separation, greatly like in my personal situation.
> 
> ...


Right on the money.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

You now face the dilemma---of----being somewhat certain--she is probably having sex with her lover

That said---how do you handle a R---cuz it will be a R, where you have now had your heart and soul destroyed

It should never have come to this---but it is time YOU decided YOUR future

Either she comes home and renews her mge----and that means now this week----or you go from separation to D

But as I said---if you renew your mge---you now have the problem of living with a wife who you are fairly sure cheated on you---that, right now is what MUST BE RESOLVED FOR YOU---but no matter, the longer she stays out there, the longer she has a free hand to do anything she wants, which includes her very probable cheating with her lover

You got some big thinking to do, and some decisions to make---and you need to take some action soon----this just gets worse each day it exits


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

When he played grab ass you should have told him that if he did it again he would have had a broken hand period. He didn't have the right to do it and since he got away with it, to a snake like him, it's open season. 

You made a comment that your wife was raised a good girl Catholic so a PA doesn't fit. I have a girl cousin that went to Catholic school from grand 1 through 12 and was a hooker in the city where I come from for maybe 25 years so that doesn't wash with me. 

Look man you need to take the bull by the horns and if she's fooling around with Mister Wonderful, then file for a divorce and be done with it. Why do you want to live like this. She didn't have the guts to sit down with you and come clean about separating so she doesn't deserve any consideration. Your rolling over and playing dead while she has her way. That's a no no.


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## Robin Hood (Sep 16, 2013)

Thanks, Will Kane, for the thorough and thoughtful analysis. You make many great points. One that really sticks out to me is your belief that she has a ton of guilt right now, and that is why she only wants to e-mail and text. That is so true, and further she only wants to do short e-mails and texts, with no real discussion of any substantive issues. For 6 months, whenever I try to bring up substantive issues about our relationship or marriage, she completely freaks out and literally walks out of the room within minutes. She similarly freaks out if I try to bring up anything of substance in e-mails or texts. She just does not want to go there at all. And it has become increasingly clear to me, and my counselor as well, that she has some massive guilt going on that is triggered anytime I bring up us or trying to do anything positive or forward thinking in our relationship. I used to think that this massive guilt was due to just her general mistreatment of me over the last six months. I'm now starting to think that is because she has been carrying on with this scumbag.

But, as you say, the enormous guilt, and the huge amount of emotion that she releases when I try to engage her, makes me wonder if she doesn't still have some feelings for me boiling around down there somewhere. If she was just totally over me and checked out on me, why would she get so mad and crazy when I bring us up? Wouldn't she instead just roll her eyes and let me know how she doesn't care anymore? Getting so emotional sounds like she still cares. 

Who knows, but thanks for taking the time with me, and all of the other stuff you say.


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## Iver (Mar 8, 2013)

Go by her place ~ 11 when you have your daughters and see if she's there or at the OM's place. (or he's there hiding under the bed)

Also start lawyering up ASAP. As it stands now you are heading for a divorce. Get ready.


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## Robin Hood (Sep 16, 2013)

Quote:
Originally Posted by badbane View Post 
Yea very rarely do the words "she wants to move out" come out of the mouth of a person that isn't getting his or her needs met outside of a marriage. ...... 

"This is just untrue. People, men and women, move out and leave marriages quite often without involved with someone else. It means that they are unhappy in their marriage and have given up. "

EleGirl, thanks for your post, and different point of view. I don't know that her giving up is much better than her having an affair, but it is something different, which should be handled differently, I think. Your other thoughts on my situation would be welcome.


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## Refuse to be played (Jun 7, 2013)

You need to get your kids back home asap so she can't use them as leverage. If she wants to see them she comes to the house to see them then she goes on her way. Right now she has herself established as the primary care giver for your children. As it stands now she will destroy you in a custody battle. You need to fix this NOW!


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

Robin Hood said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by badbane View Post
> Yea very rarely do the words "she wants to move out" come out of the mouth of a person that isn't getting his or her needs met outside of a marriage. ......
> 
> ...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Robin Hood said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by badbane View Post
> Yea very rarely do the words "she wants to move out" come out of the mouth of a person that isn't getting his or her needs met outside of a marriage. ......
> 
> ...


Yes both reasons for leaving present their own challenges. However, when a person has an affair, it's usually because they are unhappy in their marriage and have given up on at least some level if not completely.

At least if she is not cheating, you both only have her dissatisfaction in the marriage to deal with and not the pain of infidelity.

Whether or not she's cheating.. I think that you (and she) would benefit from the book "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley. 

Then after that book there is his book "His Needs, Her Needs". 

To start with read them yourself and do what they books suggest. Do not tell her about the books at first. If you can get a strong commitment from her to work on the marriage then read the books with her. Then do the work that is set out in "His Needs, Her Needs".

It's very possible to recover your marriage. The love and passion can be rebuilt in a marriage.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Robin Hood said:


> But, as you say, the enormous guilt, and the huge amount of emotion that she releases when I try to engage her, *makes me wonder if she doesn't still have some feelings for me boiling around down there somewhere*. If she was just totally over me and checked out on me, why would she get so mad and crazy when I bring us up? Wouldn't she instead just roll her eyes and let me know how she doesn't care anymore? Getting so emotional sounds like she still cares.
> 
> Who knows, but thanks for taking the time with me, and all of the other stuff you say.


She is not totally over you, she still loves you, but does not feel like she is "in love" with you. If she has a brother, she probably loves her brother a lot, she may think her brother is a great father, a great man, a great person, but she is not "in love" with her brother. That is not exactly where she is at with you, but close. She still has some residual romantic/sexual feelings for you, whereas she never had those feelings for her brother.

Her romantic/sexual feelings for you were there once, and they still are there somewhere beneath the surface. She is very, very conflicted about what she is doing. She cares for you a great deal, hence the great guilt. Also, she probably has very strong feelings AGAINST cheaters, yet here she is and she has found out she is one. Did you mention she was Catholic? If she was brought up and still is a Catholic, she definitely has strong feelings against cheating. Yet, Catholics cheat, too.

Eventually, she will rationalize that it is YOU who made her cheat, because she HATES cheating and she HATES cheaters, so YOU had to be really, really bad to make her do it. She is getting there, bit by bit.

Your chances of saving your marriage are slim. By the time most posters come here, things have progressed quite far, and any time there is infidelity, reconciling is very difficult. But not impossible.

The way to get her to return to the marriage is to let her feel like she is losing you. I think you posted that when you acted like you would be OK with divorce, that got her attention. That is exactly how it works. She separated to see if she would miss you. But she doesn't miss you because you are so accessible, and she has no fear of losing you. She takes for granted that you always will be there for her (like her brother, if she has one).

If you start to let her know you are moving on, that you tire of waiting and want to start moving toward divorce, that you love her and would like to reconcile, but are not willing to wait any longer, she definitely will "warm up" to you, try to keep you in the marriage, but she won't give up her boyfriend or her freedom to see him. You have to let her know that is a dealbreaker and file for divorce. You also have to be prepared that at this point she might choose the other guy over you if push came to shove.

What would happen if you told her, either she comes back to your house, lives with you, and works on this marriage, or you are going to file for divorce? I mean, now you post that she won't even TALK or TEXT you about anything of significance to do with the marriage? Where exactly is she going with this and why are you willing to wait? She is living like a single woman and dating the other guy. But she IS MARRIED to you. If she wants to be single, she has to get divorced.

If you're comfortable waiting this out and making no progress, not even talking about what it would take to make your marriage work, that's up to you. But the experience on this forum is that, in general, the longer the separation, the further apart you get. Long separations lead to divorce.

What exactly is supposed to be happening during this separation? What is the purpose of it?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Robin Hood said:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> "This is just untrue. People, men and women, move out and leave marriages quite often without involved with someone else. It means that they are unhappy in their marriage and have given up. "
> ...



man I wish cheater were that honest!

hell I wish my old lady would have taken that high road


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Robin Hood said:


> Well, that's enough for now. My wife was raised as a Catholic school good girl, and so her having a full on PA with this guy does not fit to me. But on the other hand, she has been checked out on me and mean as a snake for 6 months, and obviously this other guy is sniffing around, and she's even allowing or inviting it. Let me know your thoughts.


My thoughts are your old lady is screwing around, but hey I haven't been here that long so what do I know.

Maybe she *likes* being pissed at you..I'm sure it has nothing to do with some how relieving her guilt for commiting adultory, by blaming you and pointing out your faults, rewriting the marital history in making you out to be the bad guy and finding any reason in the world to justify her affair.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I bet if you planted a VAR (voice activated recorder) in her car and in her apartment you will get alot of answer.

Hell it just might give you the direction you need with regard to your future.

If you do go down this route make sure you get lithium batteries and some velcrow tape...you don't want the recorder sliding around her car.


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## fallensoldier (May 6, 2012)

I'm not a guy, but can almost bet that no man grabs another woman's @$$ in such a comfortable manner unless he's done it over a dozen times already ...


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

OP,

If you think she freaks out now every time you bring up dealing with issues to move you out of this limbo, wait til you tell her you know about her A and serve her with D papers.

My take on her reactions is she feels stuck, not knowing what to do, so she just wants to continue the status quo indefinitely until she feels she can choose.

You exposing the A and filing D will shove her off the fence and force her to make a decision. It will freak her out even more.

But if you expose and go after this POS hard at the same time he is probably going to run for the hills because he is a complete and utter p***y.

He will almost assuredly abandon your WW and she is going to be slapped hard by the reality of her life crashing and burning around her.

If there is any chance of snapping her out of this crap, this is the only shot.

Less forceful moves won't work because she is already out of the house and M basically. (personally I don't think less forceful or 'nice' methods ever really work anyway).

You have to dump her HARD to have any chance here.


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## ironman (Feb 6, 2013)

Robin Hood,

As usual, Will Kane is right on the money. She may be too far gone for this marriage to be recovered. 

1) You've been living apart for a while now (not good)
2) She moved out on her own accord (worse)
3) You are still not sure that there is affair sex involved ( I apologize if you've changed your mind on this Robin Hood)

Your best shot here is if you start accepting the truth and implement the 180 immediately. Force her to decide by ignoring her and showing her you are on your way out (divorce). Even then, she may not choose you .. but at least you'll be able to move on with your life.

PS: I know this is hindsight, but in the past when other men were getting flirty with your wife and you did nothing out of confidence ... she probably interpreted it as complacency or you not caring about her. Just for future reference, you need to defend your territory sometimes .. lots of women like that. And I don't necessarily mean violently .. maybe just getting in the guys face and telling him to back off can suffice. That's usually enough to scare most of them.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Tell her you will be keeping kids at least half the time or more......just like a divorce.

Most will disagree here but I think you should ask your fourteen year old if she thinks your wife is seeing the OM or someone else. She is old enough to know what is going on with her family. She can be an ally. I do not think that is using her against her mother but that she is taking part in family matters.

Why did the OM take your wife home drunk from parties, where were you?

Are you also Catholic? Whether or not you are, go talk to her priest or another one if she doesn't have a regular one.

Do you have a key to her apt? One way or the other, put a voice activated recorder, about 50 bucks at bestbuy in her apt and car.
Check back for info how to do that.

Good job trying to confront is sorry ass. Keep it up.

Are you still having sex with your wife?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

the guy said:


> *My thoughts are your old lady is screwing around, but hey I haven't been here that long so what do I know.
> 
> Maybe she *likes* being pissed at you..I'm sure it has nothing to do with some how relieving her guilt for commiting adultory, by blaming you and pointing out your faults, rewriting the marital history in making you out to be the bad guy and finding any reason in the world to justify her affair.*


*Now that totally describes my rich, self-serving STBXW to a tee! And letter for letter, I might add!*


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

The time you saw his hand on her backside was certainly not the first. The way he did it in front of you was to show her that he was the man. She smiled in acknowledgement of that. 

You can't right that wrong now and rarely do I advocate violence but you really should have punched the dbag for that one.

File for d
Do a hard 180 
Get tested for stds

She has no respect or interest in you or your marriage. You are getting the kids so she can share a bed with om. 

Good luck
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

The reason she separated was to conduct a relationship.
It gives her opportunity and it gives her the internal permission (we are separated, I can do this). It also takes away exposure as an option for you... Who would really care if a spurned husband talked about a relationship his wife was having after they separated? It's "normal".

Your play here should be more time with the kids for better custody and plan your financial exit strategy.


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

I'd agree with most everyone else saying dump her hard. No calls, no texts, except the bare minimum for the kids. 

Move forward with divorce. Maybe she wakes up, maybe not. 

But in most, if not all cases, and having gone through this myself, the "180" is the best strategy. 

It does one of two things: Begins to prepare you for single life, and/or sometimes shocks the WS out of their complacency. 

I think what's often lost in these situations, is that you must begin to move on to save any marriage, even if you wish to R. 

In a few weeks or months though, you may find you like being separated. Often when the genie comes out of the bottle, you realize the relationship was never all that good. 

Distance and time gives both you and her a chance to reflect on the relationship and her actions. 

Many WSs don't realize what they had until it's gone. (like most of us) We take things for granted the longer they're around.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

Will_Kane said:


> She is not totally over you, she still loves you, but does not feel like she is "in love" with you. If she has a brother, she probably loves her brother a lot, she may think her brother is a great father, a great man, a great person, but she is not "in love" with her brother. That is not exactly where she is at with you, but close. She still has some residual romantic/sexual feelings for you, whereas she never had those feelings for her brother.
> 
> Her romantic/sexual feelings for you were there once, and they still are there somewhere beneath the surface. She is very, very conflicted about what she is doing. She cares for you a great deal, hence the great guilt. Also, she probably has very strong feelings AGAINST cheaters, yet here she is and she has found out she is one. Did you mention she was Catholic? If she was brought up and still is a Catholic, she definitely has strong feelings against cheating. Yet, Catholics cheat, too.
> 
> ...


Dear RH,

Will_Kane has given you great advice but let me be a little more blunt.

Your WW has clearly engaged in conduct inappropriate for a married woman and, likely, is engaged in a PA. She has separated from you and, with every passing day, she is growing more emotionally distant. Eventually, if not already, she will reach a point in which she blames you for all of her inappropriate actions in order to assuage her guilt and, at that point, R will become nigh on impossible.

Your only hope now is to shake her out of her "affair fog" by presenting her with a clear choice: either move back home, tell the truth about what she's done and start working on saving her marriage and family -- or get divorced. Ideally, you should deliver this message in person, forcefully and dispassionately -- basically, you want her to realize that you are fed up with her behavior and that this is her last chance to save her marriage. You should not let her dissuade you nor argue with her. Rather, give her an ultimatum -- your way or the highway. Just keep repeating it firmly and calmly until it sinks in.

Then, leave and don't speak to her again until she tells you what she intends to do. If she tries to contact you, ignore her unless it is to say that she agrees to your terms. If she doesn't agree in a couple of days, file for divorce.

I know that this is tough on you and that you would prefer to wait for it to blow over and for her to return on her own. But the collective wisdom on TAM/CWI is that this almost never happens. Rather, in cases like this, the BS must force the issue and the only way to do that is to be prepared to end your marriage if your WW is not willing to try to save it.

Thus, I recommend that you:

1) Engage a qualified divorce attorney to find out what your rights and responsibilities would be if you divorce and to be in a position for file for divorce on short notice;

2) Tell your WW that you have done this and that, if she does not return home immediately, come clean about what "extracurricular activities" she has engaged in, and demonstrate true remorse and a strong desire to save her marriage, you intend to file for divorce.

3) If she agrees:

- tell her that she must return home immediately;

- do not accept what she tells you about what she has or hasn't done at face value. Instead, give her one chance to tell you everything and demand that she take a polygraph test to confirm it; and

- demand that she write a NC letter to the OM and have no further communications with him.

5) If she refuses, file for divorce immediately. Do not waffle. Do not show weakness. Let her know that you are willing, ready and able to move on with your life without her.

Finally, start to prepare yourself physically and mentally for a new life. Start eating properly, get as much sleep as you can and start working out. You will need all of your strength to get through this.

No one should have to go through what you are going through but that's neither here nor there now. The fact is that it is happening to you and that, unless you take strong and decisive action now, the odds are that you will lose your WW for good.

I wish you the courage and wisdom to do what you need to do.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

Robin Hood said:


> ...Do you all really think that moving out, treating me like s---, and another POS guy handing around in the wings AUTOMATICALLY means she is full on physical with him? It may be, you guys have more experience with this than me, but the one thing I can't wrap my mind around is how these little "jogging dates" fit into the picture. Let's say my wife and this guy have been physical for awhile, since before she told me she wanted to move out. If that were true, and so they've already done the most un-innocent thing you can do, would you really go from that to some little jogging date? ...


In your case, yes. It's physical.

The jogging dates...exercise makes you horny...FACT! Plus, when people see them together at night, they can act like, "oh, we're just friends...we actually jog together, he's really nice, blah blah blah..." It helps establish the appearance of "friends", but this guy is known to only want one thing from women.

You think your wife is the one chick he just wants to be friends with? You think there is no coincidence with your wife separating, him being comfortable enough to grab her ass in public, then she's moving 5 doors from him, jogging with him, double-dating with him, partying with him, kid-sharing with him, him alone at her house till 2:30am, etc.??? What do you think happens when your kids go to bed? 

Don't be so naive. You're barely plan B anymore.

File for divorce NOW. Pull a 180, and see what happens. What was your plan? Deny everything and hope she comes back to you one day? You deserve better, man. 

Start taking action.


BTW....
In future relationships, when someone grabs your girls azz, knock his azz out. Have some respect for yourself and your relationship. Never let "small stuff" like that slide....it's not small, and dudes need to get checked for that. If you don't check it, and your wife smiles like yours did, what message did the guy just get??

He got a green light from both of you.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Here's a link you will find eminently useful

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...e-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html#post430739

Also, you asked why she would go jogging with this guy if they'd slept together. Had you slept with her already the first time you went jogging with her?


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

STOP STOP STOP. You are trying to take two paths at once.
IF you want proof of affair do this exactly and stop exposing. PLAY DUMB HUSBAND! It should be dirt easy. Drive by or have a friend drive by Fri night. Or have a PI.

As far as the azz grab. You sent her a signal that it was ok by not outing him in front of everyone right then. BTW she was very very likely physical when this happened. She was only shocked by location.

As for more evidence:

VARs and evidence

Your wife is acting funny. Her phone and email suddenly have passwords you don't know. She shuts down phone apps or changes windows on the computer whenever you enter the room. She is suddenly staying out until 2 to 5 in the morning. She has new single friends. She has lost weight and is dressing hotter to boot. Her ex contacted her 3 weeks ago and she wants “to meet to catch up at some public place” Any of this sound familiar? 

If you are reading this your gut is going crazy. “Relax”, in that there is a high liklihood that you are not crazy at least. “Your gut” is your basic instinct from the caveman period. There is something up with your mate. It is part of your mind built into you and in your DNA. You probably cant sleep. You are losing weight like crazy and are not hungry.  Well if you are reading this and that is 90% of you reading this if its your first time... You are embarking on what is probably going to be the worst time of your life.

Chin up, yes I know it is damn near impossible to believe now, but I and the people at TAM here have taken dozens of men through this process. Some reconcile, most dont in the long run so be aware. Most of us hang around this grim grim place for a sense of “pay it forward” and “getting at the truth” Even in divorce, the long run the majority find love again... yes really. Often selecting a far far better future companion. Read poster BFF for a thread of disaster, divorce, recovery, and a new wonderful woman in his life. Younger and hotter, yes, but also one with better boundaries, often a far far better personality match. Oh and they get to go through that first time with her after the first I love you's have been exchanged. Just know, that for the majority, even if the marriage crashes, in six months, a year, maybe two you will wonder how you got so far so fast and how great your new life is. You will also be MUCH MUCH stronger as a person.

So. Here are your instructions. Do this now. I dont mean next week. I mean make something up within the next day and GET IT DONE! Not looking will only prolong your agony.

NO MORE CONFRONTS!! Play dumb husband for a bit. Dont drive her further underground! Soft confronts RARELY WORK AND ONLY MAKE GETTING AT THE TRUTH HARDER!!! THIS PROLONGS YOUR AGONY! NEVER give up you get your intel from the VAR. You tell her, you always got your info from a PI or someone saw them. Hard confronts with overwhelming evidence to crush all resistance are the name of the game.

Buy 2 sony ICDPX312 voice activated recorders. Best Buy sells them for like 50 bucks. DO NOT BUY THE cheapies. USE LITHIUM batteries. We have examples of 25 hour recordings using them on these sony recorders. My icon IS a Sony ICDPX312. No I do not have stock in nor work for Sony.

Setup instructions are on page 19. Also good stuff on page 31.
Use 44K bit rate for balancing file size vs quality DO NOT USE 8K!!!!! Simply put. The higher the quality the better the sound and 8K sucks. ALSO. The higher the quality the more you can manipulate the mp3 in Audacity.
Set VOR "on" see page 38
See page 40 for adding memory if necessary
Play with it yourself to get familiar. TEST IT OUT 
Turn off the beep feature. Its on one of the menus. You can even play prevent defense by going to a dollar store, buying uber-cheapie earbuds, cut off the buds but put in the jack which will actually disable the speaker for additional protection.

Go to Walmart and buy heavy duty velcro.
This is one item: Velcro Heavy-Duty Hook and Loop Fastener VEK90117: Office : Walmart.com
also
Purchase VELCRO Hook and Loop Fasteners, Sticky-Back, for less at Walmart.com. Save money. Live better.
The velcro is usually in the fabric section or the aisle with the fasteners like screws.

Use the velcro to attach the var under her seat UP INSIDE. SECURE IT WELL!!!!!! So well even a big bump wont knock it off. attach one side HD velcro from Walmart to back. USE BIG PIECE
attach other side HD velcro again UP INSIDE car seat. 

ATTACH THE CRAP out of it. It needs to stay put going over big potholes or railroad tracks.
I recommend exporting the sound files to your comp. The recorder is very cumbersome for playback.

Put the second VAR in whatever room she uses to talk in when you are not around. If you are a typical man, use your size advantage to put it someplace she cant reach, even on a chair. Beware spring cleaning season if she does it.

Amazon has a pen VAR that can be placed in a purse or other small place to get remote conversations. Yes the pen works.

Usual warning. If you hear another man and perhaps a little kissing or... STOP Listening and have a trusted friend listen and tell you what went on. Knowing she is a cheat will kill you. Hearing her moan while another man is inside her will murder you to your very soul!!!!!! You are not strong enough to hear that. Dont try it. I know what I am talking about in this.

If you need clean up the recordings get Audacity. Its free from the internet. I have used it on var work for others here to remove things like engine noise. If needed, I have done var work for four men here. RDMU is the only one who has released some of the confidentiality. Read his second thread for my reliability and confidentiality. NEVER GIVE UP YOUR ELECTRONIC EVIDENCE. They were seen by a PI or something NOT your VAR!!

If your wife comes home from an alone time does she immediately change liners, change panties possibly even immediately laundering them?, shower? This can be an after the fact clean up. Amazon sells a semen detection kit called checkmate.

The ezoom GPS has been found to be easy to buy at Radio shack and useful. There is even a locator webpage you can track with.

Look for a burner phone. This is a second phone from a prepay service just used for cheating communications. That is often why wives let the husband "see their phone" The dont use their main phone for cheating purposes.

There is an app out there called teensafe. Its for both Iphone and Android. It monitors texts, GPS and facebook. Needs no jailbreak.

Look for apps on her phone like words with friends. It has a non traceable texting feature.
Here is a list 25 Apps to Help You Cheat On Your Girlfriend | Complex


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Oh and hit the site alphagameplan. You need a big booster shot of alpha. You will never be a pure alpha. Alphas dont tend to keep women anyway.

Oh and sorry. The probability of R is very low.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Carmen ohio---nailed it down for you---but you also need to take all marital monies and put them in an acct, with only your name on it---withdraw everything but $5---from the original acct, and leave it open with $5 in it----also cancel all CC's


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Will_Kane said:


> What would happen if you told her, either she comes back to your house, lives with you, and works on this marriage, or you are going to file for divorce?


Whether you know the answer to Will Kane's question, doesn't matter. That's exactly what you need to do and you need to do it *NOW*.

I think you're missing the bigger picture here. Is she having an A with this guy? I'd put money on it. The familiarity associated with that butt pat was all I needed to hear to confirm it. And your passive non-reaction? It just amplified her loss of respect for you and confirmed her dominance in your relationship. They probably had a good laugh about it later. 

But the big picture view of what's going on is that *your wife separated from you* and you've done nothing about it after all this time. My take is that she did it to test the waters. Perhaps with this guy, perhaps with someone else. She doesn't fear that she will lose you. She knows you are a reliable plan B option. She's having a good time at your expense.

I don't know why you would be willing to R with this woman. If I was in a similar situation, I'd just file for D and move on with my life. But if that's what you want, just understand your chances are slim. Give her the ultimatum mentioned above and if she agrees, you need to insist that she be honest with you about this OM or other OM's. If she doesn't confess, she agrees to a polygraph.

But Robin Hood, I think you and I both know she's not going to be willing to do that; and that's when you have to step up to the plate.

Good luck.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Robin Hood said:


> Gentlemen, gentlemen, gentlemen. Wow. I was afraid you were all going to say what you're saying. I hear you all, and thank you for your thoughts. Let me answer or respond to a few of your good questions or points.
> 
> "So your wife moved out two months ago after telling you she wasn't happy? And now you *think* she's screwing another guy?"
> 
> ...



YES!!

Let's take a survey from the women on this board, how many women do things on the fly, versus have a plan in place before moving on?

Your wife had her plan in place BEFORE she had her "I'm not happy" talk. This isn't new. Once she KNEW she had her new "situation" locked down, she made her move.

Here's the cheater script

1. Start affair (signs are there but VERY hard to see "butt slap")
2. Fog thought process happens with WS (the naughty secrecy fuels the excitement of affair, newness, new love feelings all make WS head spin)
3. Internally WS has to justify their actions so they convince themselves they were "justified" 
a. Controlling spouse
b. Not happy
c. Haven't been happy for a long time
d. They've spent years taking care of everyone else, now it's "their turn"
e. Their spouse "isn't there for them" (even though they didn't give their spouse a chance to be there for them)
f. They "deserve real love"
you get the idea
4. WS moves plans ahead with AP
5. Once plans are in place WS has the "ILYBNILWY" talk with BS
6. Either kicks BS out (because WS "needs space") or WS leaves because they "need to clear their head".
7. Moves in with their "love of their life"
8. 6 months to 2 years later (approx) affair falls apart and many times (especially with women...see above) WW comes back to husband "realizing she still loves him blah blah" making BH Plan B because again, women need security, and being in between relationships for a WW has zero security.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Robin Hood said:


> "Where do your kids stay? With you or at her place?"
> 
> Right now the kids are splitting time between us, but a majority of the time they are with her. I don't like this, and have said so all along. I relented when she moved out bc I thought it might help get her back. Now I realize that mistake, and have been fighting for more kids time. I get 2 nights per week right now, plus a lot of activities, and* occasional extra nights depending on circumstances.*
> 
> The kids issue will be WWIII in any divorce proceeding. But I'm wondering if she'll flinch if I press the POSOM issue.


You need to talk to your kids and see if they like being away from their home and room etc 5 days of the week.

Also for the bolded part....you mean when she has a date?


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Robin Hood said:


> Ok, ok, a lot of you can't believe the butt pat right in front of me. And believe, I can't either, now. But at the time it didn't freak me out, and not bc I am a wus. Nothing like this had ever happened before. And to tell you the truth, here's the weird part, it actually sort of _turned me on a little bit at the time. *My wife had actually started being a tad more sexually adventurous at the time*, and I liked that, and this butt pat seemed like more of that at the time. *She and I actually had a pretty good go that night. * Now I feel stupid._


_

Robin Hood, noone here is trying to make you feel silly. Many of us have been the same ostrich you have been and continue to be.

So do you think it was a coincidence your wife is expanding her sexual appetites at the same time some guy slaps her butt? 

Who do you think she was thinking of that night?_


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Robin Hood said:


> Gentlemen, gentlemen, gentlemen. Wow. I was afraid you were all going to say what you're saying. I hear you all, and thank you for your thoughts. Let me answer or respond to a few of your good questions or points.
> 
> "So your wife moved out two months ago after telling you she wasn't happy? And now you *think* she's screwing another guy?"
> 
> ...


You are living in the land of denial, and that is not in Egypt.

Your WW has been banging this OM for a while. And there is a good chance this has been happening way back.

How do we know this. Because going through this and seeing countless BH's be fore you raise similar red flags. This is how we know. No affair is unique, different, or special. Just another WW rutting with the OM.

We told them how to investigate and they caught their WW having an affair.

Though by letting your WW move out you have made it difficult to gather evidence.

Are you helping pay for WW's new apartment. Then cut off the funds and tell her to move back home.

Get copies of your phone bills as far back as you can. She what numbers she is calling texting the most. Phone in your name get copies of all the old texts from the phone co. Can you hide a VAR in WW car?

What ever you find out come her first. Do not confront without a plan.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Robin Hood said:


> "then you need to stop being nice and realize you are at war for your marriage. The war is between you and your wife. You have to turn her Affair from this fantasy reality she is in. Into the single worst decision she has ever made. You need to send all of the info you have to her parents, close mutual friends, and the OMW if he has one.
> the longer you allow this relationship to go on without exposing her, the less likely she is to come back into the marriage."
> 
> Ok, I've done a little exposing of this affair (assuming it is one) already, but not full-fledged yet. I've told a few mutual friends of ours, and a couple of the POS OM's friends. I think she might know I told one mutual friend couple (who told me the other man was a "creepy snake" and they totally had my back) bc she recently lit into me about talking to this couple.
> ...


This is not exposing an affair. This is tipping your hand to your WW and the OM. Which is bad because they will take measures to better hide their affair. You need to gather intel without letting the WW and OM know that you are checking up on them.

Consider hiring a PI.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Robin Hood said:


> Yeah, he grabbed her butt in front of me. I honestly was not concerned at the time -- that's how confident I was in our marriage. A few other lame asses have taken a run at her over the years, and I've pretty much always laughed -- and rightly so. I really was not being some naïve *****. But no I realize I miscalculated with this POS guy.


You highly overate yourself.

No man lets another man grab his wife's butt in front of him and does nothing about it.

That was the OM sending the signal to your WW that he wants to bang her and is alpha to you because he just issued a challenge to her beta husband, who just sat there and took being humiliated by the OM grabbing her his wife's butt.

This show of desire worked on your WW sub conscience mind.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

You know Robin Hood I read your posts and I thought to myself

"Wow, this guy is doing a great job of pushing his wife further away"....

She moves out. You continue to make demands of her, what she is up to and who is she with or seeing.

You are playing it all wrong.

I bet when your wife met you that guy she fell in love with was cool, calm and confident.

Many people have told you what to do but I will reaffirm the most pertinent points.

Go see an attorney.
Formalize the separation of file for divorce. I would file and drop the bomb shell on that beautiful, motherly, sweet wife of yours.
It should surprise her being served at work or at home.

No forewarning.

You should also seek 50% custody of your children.

You see Robin Hood being in the position you are already in you need to show your cowardly wife what a man does when left with no good choices.

You have to show her you are no longer her doormat.

Who cares if she has cheated. Who cares if she is screwing the OM's.

What truly matters is how you see yourself as a man, as a husband and as a Father.

So go show your wife and children how a man with great self respect and self esteem acts.

Give your wife what she has asked for; her freedom.

Because not only is she a coward but she is a selfish woman that has put her personal needs "happiness" above you, her children and her marriage.

See her for whom she really is. Take of those rose colored lenses and face all of the reality.

Who knows she might just wake up......

Sorry you are here Robin Hood but glad you are here looking for advice.

Hm64


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

Robin Hood,

Are you okay today? I am sure the realization of your situation was one of the most horrible experiences of your life.

Stick with us. The truth can be extremely painful, but it will set you free eventually.

How are you coping? Do you have someone or someplace that you can go to catch your breath?

Hang in there bro! Let us know how we can help.

Sorry you are here. This will get better eventually.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> You know Robin Hood I read your posts and I thought to myself
> 
> "Wow, this guy is doing a great job of pushing his wife further away"....
> 
> ...


What he said!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

weightlifter said:


> STOP STOP STOP. You are trying to take two paths at once.
> IF you want proof of affair do this exactly and stop exposing. PLAY DUMB HUSBAND! It should be dirt easy. Drive by or have a friend drive by Fri night. Or have a PI . . .


weightlifter,

Usually, I think your advice is spot on. However, in this case, I don't believe the OP needs any more evidence of what's happened and, IMO, delay will only decrease the chances of him reconciling with his WW (assuming that's what he wants to do).

I would agree with you if collecting more evidence would benefit him in the divorce, e.g., if he lives in a "fault" jurisdiction and if absolute proof of adultery would help him gain custody of his children or avoid alimony.

Otherwise, I think OP's best course of action is to lower the boom _now_.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Robin, just curious. Why do not have any proof until now? What have you checked until now?


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## Robin Hood (Sep 16, 2013)

"Robin Hood,

Are you okay today? I am sure the realization of your situation was one of the most horrible experiences of your life.

Stick with us. The truth can be extremely painful, but it will set you free eventually.

How are you coping? Do you have someone or someplace that you can go to catch your breath?

Hang in there bro! Let us know how we can help.

Sorry you are here. This will get better eventually."

Yeah, I'm here. I'm just taking it all in and thinking. I know the more hard ass approach is what needs to be done. I'm just trying to wrap my mind around exactly what/how to do it.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

The 180 specifically points out that you do not argue, yell, lose composure with her. Be serious but cheerful. She needs to know you will be fine without her. Its the opposite of what you think. Otherwise, you come off as needy ,weak ,unattractive etc.

Re his sex rank. Most wayward wives we see here affair down, I have no idea whats up with that but many affair way down.

Do you have a key to her apt? If no, get the key for your house back from her. So far she is acting single, she needs to face consequences.

Do not be an ass.............ever.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

> Yeah, I'm here. I'm just taking it all in and thinking. I know the more hard ass approach is what needs to be done. I'm just trying to wrap my mind around exactly what/how to do it.


And that my friend is wise of you.

I just wanted to add that I am a practicing Catholic. I despise Divorce. I have seen what it does to families.

But I have also seen what doing nothing does to a battered spouse, a battered family.

So while having your wife served may be the hardest thing to wrap you mind around, letting her be a coward and cake eating will do more harm to you and the kids in the long run.

Let her go be a teenager. You get to be the grownup.

In the end your choice is simple.

HM


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

It is confusing when you consider all of the good times, the sacrifice, and the "why" stuff.

It seems that many people just are not loyal or committed to marriage like some of us. Selfishness is usually the heart of their matter.

Prepare yourself to go through all of the stages of grief/coping.

Realizing that your sweet wife was evil is difficult. Many of us have been in your shoes. That is why it seems that we are all yelling the same thing at you.

Honest to goodness, your best move is to end the marriage. You will find that she will come crawling back, or she will never look back. Either is better than having to deal with your current shattered heart.

I didn't decide to D for many months after my discovery day. It does take time. I also told my exWW that I was going to D when we separated BEFORE I knew about the PA. It was the tipping point where she wanted me back, and confessed.

Whew!

Think of a few things you can do today to move ahead. Read about the D laws in your state. Talk to an attorney. Find out how to file. All suck, but it will help.

Cut her off financially. Move your half of all cash assets to new accounts. Open your own checking account, etc.

Take care of yourself physically. Exercise, eat, and go easy on the alcohol. Do some things outside where you can escape for a time to think.

Read about divorce and relationships. Discover what makes women tick. Discover what makes you attractive, and look at this as a new door for a new period in your life. It can be a big step up and forward.

You are in hell, but there will be a time when you can look back and realize that you made your lemons into lemonaide.

Hang tough, and set her free.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Robin Hood said:


> Or she is having an affair with someone else. And the Jogging Playboy is also trying to get a piece of the action?
> 
> Once a wife becomes a cheater other men will hit on them.
> 
> ...


Someone else in your circle? Probably the last person you'd suspect, too.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Robin Hood Sorry you are here my brother.

It's hard to know what the right thing to do is sometimes. 

But once you know it.......... It's not hard at all to do

Think long term for the right moves. Play chess not checkers.

Keep posting you are going to get good advice here


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Robin Hood said:


> I know the more hard ass approach is what needs to be done. I'm just trying to wrap my mind around exactly what/how to do it.


Being a hard ass also means staying in control and stop engaging with someone you have no control over. Being a hard ass means controling what you tolorate and making the hard choices that benifit you the most with regards to what do have control over.

Being a hard ass means doing the hard 180 that everyone talks about here....

Sure its hard to show your old lady indifference, but doing it is truly being a hard ass. In the end it will yield a lot more results then beating her ass and b1tching her out.

I mean really if she gave a damb about your feelings and what you had to say she wouldn't be cheating.

So again your best course of action is to infact act in different and stop engaging her in anyway.

the oppisite of love is indifference...don;t think its anger...cuz anger just means you still care...indifference means she has infact lost you.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Have you seen a lawyer yet?


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

fallensoldier said:


> I'm not a guy, but can almost bet that no man grabs another woman's @$$ in such a comfortable manner unless he's done it over a dozen times already ...


Chances are it was done out of habit.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

happyman64 said:


> And that my friend is wise of you.
> 
> I just wanted to add that I am a practicing Catholic. I despise Divorce. I have seen what it does to families.
> 
> ...


I have a friend he would say to someone that was being / acting in a let's say negative way "In two minutes I am going to knock your teeth out" Two minutes later if the actions continued He would do as he said.

To the big suprise of the now toothless person!!!!!!!!

Go figure they were suprised


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

I am guessing your disappearance means you found out the masses are right in their assumptions of your wife.
Sorry, but you had to know you were being naive about all the signs.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Once you walk away, wishing her happiness because you love her, she will have to face the emotional void of life without you. Perhaps, she is too proud to admit making bad choices and mistakes. Perhaps she now has a new hunger for strange that she will not deny. Perhaps she will run home, begging forgiveness. All you can do is stand up straight and be the best version of you that you can conceive. Act like some male mentor of your youth was watching you and rooting for you to exhibit self respect, restraint, common sense and principle.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bunny23 (May 19, 2011)

What really shocked me is that she e-mailed you about this. 

I think this speaks more to her character and your marriage than anything else?

Who e-mails their spouse like that?!

It's worse than the break up post-it note on Sex in the City

FILE


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## Everafter2013 (Feb 11, 2013)

Robin Hood said:


> I am new to this forum. I have read many of the threads and am impressed by the support and experience and good advice on here, so I thought I would share my own situation and see what people have to say. At this point, I believe there is sort of an affair smoldering between my wife and a mutual friend (former mutual friend, from my perspective), but I'm not sure exactly how bad it is or how far it has progressed -- is it just the beginning of an EA? a full fledged EA? a PA? both? -- and would appreciate some thoughts and advice on that.
> 
> Six months ago my wife e-mailed me out of the blue (at least to me) and surprised me and said she wanted to separate. We have been married almost 18 years, and together 21 years. It was love at first sight for both of us, and I feel like it clicked for both of us immediately. We have two girls, ages 14 and 8, who are awesome and that we both love dearly. Leading up to her e-mail saying she wanted to separate, I would have said our marriage was maybe stuck in a rut a little, with some things to work on, but certainly nothing that bad. Never any infidelity on my part, and none on hers that I knew of; no abuse, emotionally or physically; no addiction problems; financial disagreements were present, but no big financial transgressions by either of us. She just simply said she was unhappy, and wanted some time and space.
> 
> ...


From your story above, I would wager that she has been having an affair with him before the butt-pat incident. I don't know the kind of crowd you hang with but in my universe that's sexual harassment, unless he knew that your wife would not mind. Obviously he did. 

Side note: why would you think that was okay??? Another guy grabbed and patted your wife's butt in front of you and you were flattered???? You should have felt insulted because that's what he did...insulting you. And she said nothing???? I would have screamed at the guy and my partner would have kicked him out of our house.


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## Robin Hood (Sep 16, 2013)

Ok, everyone, I'm back. Thanks for all of the thoughts and advice. I've taken it all in, have been thinking, and have done some things.

First, I did consult a divorce attorney last week. He was great, recommended by a guy in my office. We talked for two hours, and went over a lot of my concerns: child custody, child support, financial stuff and division of property, etc. I came away from it feeling pretty good. I think we came up with a pretty good strategy for me getting the kids 50% of the time, or very close to it. I also basically confirmed that financially I'm doing things right. I'm self-employed, and he confirmed, as I thought, that keeping most of my cash in the business is the way to go. And also do not pay off certain personal and business debts -- keep those as offsets against the cash and as bargaining chips. I also came away thinking the way we are handling the money now is correct. So it was good on answering many of my questions. But it also was good for me mentally to discuss divorce out loud and extensively. I used to be pretty afraid of the "D" word -- not as much now. The attorney said he could prepare and file divorce for me in pretty short order, and I have a good level of comfort with him, so I think we're good to go if I decide to go that way.

I've given a lot of thought to whether to go ahead and file divorce now -- not that I want to, but to rattle her cage and see if it will knock her out of her fog or wherever it is that her mind has been, and see if that would change her tune. I've also thought about demanding she move back in, or I'm going to file for divorce, as many of you advise. Believe me, I've seriously considered these options, but what I've decided to do instead, and which I had already been trying to employ, although not consistently enough, at the time of my original post, is doing a hard 180. I've read up on the 180, and am finally starting to understand how it works, and how I've not been doing it right. One of your comments on here really struck home with me concerning the 180: the opposite of love is not anger, it's indifference. I've been trying to be somewhat indifferent to her, as my counselor has also advised, for weeks/months, and I do it pretty well for awhile, but then something happens that sets me off, or hurts me, and I'll lose it and go off on her, or return back to the demanding, argumentative, needy, whiny husband. So now I'm trying to do the 180 pretty much full on, all the time, 24/7, with no slip ups, and focusing on me and what I'm doing -- not what she's doing. I'm trying to take back the initiative.

I discussed whether to file for divorce now with my counselor. He's very into eastern philosophy, always quoting Buddhists, the Dali Lama, etc. He said me filing for divorce and expecting her to snap to might work, but it is a very western cause and effect philosophy, which doesn't necessarily work. He said that what would be better is if I could generate my own energy -- instead of deriving so much of my energy thru her as I have been doing -- and that it is my own energy that originally attracted her and is what would get her to come back. And so we talked about that some, and he endorsed doing a hard 180 instead, which is pretty much what he's been telling me to do for months. But it finally is starting to click with me. Detaching from her, and focusing on myself, generating my own energy and mojo, and not worrying about her, is what will work. and even if it doesn't get her back, then fine, I'm on the road to living my own better life. So I'm going to do that, live that. 

Some of the things I've done so far: 

(1) I've stopped wearing my wedding ring. She hasn't been wearing hers since she moved out -- I just looked stupid wearing mine. 

(2) I don't care when she tries to get at me by blowing me off. For example, we were set to co-host an event for a political candidate in our house -- lots of people supposed to be there. I figured she would bail on me, and sure enough she did last week in some weepy-wallowy e-mail with lame excuses. My immediate response: "That's fine." with nothing more. In the past I would have argued on and on with her about something like that. This time, I'm telling her fine, I'm moving on and doing it without you.

(3) I'm not inviting her to anything anymore, even to dinners or things with our girls. I've been inviting her to dinner and various things on my nights with our girls in the past, which she has turned down regularly. No more invites. And no more trying to invite myself to stuff she is doing. I'm out of there now -- with places to go and people to see.

(4) Over the weekend we were at a tennis thing for our 14 year old. I was talking to a couple of women (other moms) during the match, and my wife was sitting near me. Suddenly she got up and moved elsewhere, sitting far away. The old me would have ended my conversation with these other women and come over to her. Not so, this time. I continued my conversation with the other women, and even increased it a little -- showing her I was going to have a good time without her. Then she tried to leave early with our daughter when her match was over before other girls' matches were over -- another of my WW's favorite tactics, leaving early or abruptly. I calmly, but firmly told my daughter she needed to stay until all matches were completed, but her mom could leave if she wanted to. My wife huffed and puffed and tried to argue. I just ignored her. She stayed.

(5) All e-mails and texts are short and to the point, and limited to business stuff about our girls. If she pulls any attitude, I either ignore her, or tersely shut her down. No arguing, no trying to reason with her, everything is short and to the point, and matter of fact. I don't have time for her nonsense.

(6) I'm working out pretty hard -- I actually already had been throughout all these months, but I've stepped it up even more recently. I already look ok, I think, but I want to be looking as good and as in shape as I can. I'm buying new clothes, and paying more attention to appearance.

(7) I've started buying furniture and things for the house to replace the stuff she took when she moved out. I'm moving on.

There's some more things, I've done and am planning to do as part of this hard 180, but those are some of the highlights.

I think it's already working a little, as I will post about shortly.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Dang RH, that pretty impressive. I think you'll find, after employing your new methods, that she's more of a pain in the azz than you're willing to tolerate and you need someone who is more fun to be with. Keep talking with those other gals at the tennis matches. You never know when youre going to stumble over a nugget of gold.


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## Robin Hood (Sep 16, 2013)

Ok, so after I'd been doing the hard 180 for a few days, which was pretty distinct from how I'd been doing things before, and even included a few "test" moments (see her bailing on the hosting the political event above), something pretty noteworthy happened.

When my wife moved out a very good picture of us dancing at our wedding, that had been in our bedroom, disappeared. It's an awesome picture. It was spontaneous, both of us smiling ear to ear, both looking great. It says it all. When the picture disappeared, I didn't say anything at first, hoping maybe she would display it at her new place -- which I thought would be a good sign. But she never did. And so I asked for it about a month after she moved out. She said she would "work on it." I didn't know what that meant, but as time passed and the picture never surfaced, I began suspect the worst: that she had trashed it. I had thought many times about asking her what the deal was with it, but didn't

Then, late last week, about 6 weeks after asking for the picture, I came home late one night after taking our eldest to soccer. My wife had been in our house that day (with my knowledge and permission -- another part of the hard 180 -- new firm rule: no surprise visits at each other's places -- which she typically did, showing by surprise to ruffle me -- all visits now require notice and permission). I come upstairs to our (former "our") bedroom, and there on the bed is the picture. She had come and put it there. As a surprise, she never said anything to me about it.

I was sort of shocked. Her typical m.o. these days would have been to toss it dismissively somewhere with some other junk. But she actually did it nice and respectful, placing it on our bed. It is the nicest, most intimate thing she has done towards me in at least 6 months. I'm wondering if the 180 is already working.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Bury it in your closet for the time being or better yet stick it in the garage under a bag of cat litter but make sure it is somewhere that she will notice it.


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## Robin Hood (Sep 16, 2013)

Tron said:


> Bury it in your closet for the time being or better yet stick it in the garage under a bag of cat litter but where she will notice it.


Exactly my thoughts. As much as I love that picture, I realize part of the hard 180 is not displaying it, Right now it's in the closet with a pile of t-shirts.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

RH, if that is the nicest and most intimate thing she has done for you... wow!

Do not make a big deal or acknowledge her action at all.

Is it in a frame? If yes- display the frame prominently in your house with a different photo. One of you with the kids minus her. Put the photo away that you asked for.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Long way to go yet.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

She has noticed the difference in you. She are no longer following her shots. So now, wondering what is going she gave you the picture in a way that she hopes will turn you back to the way you were before when she could manipulate you.

Keep it up. She's noticed what you have changed.

Why not change the locks on your house so she cannot enter it on her own?


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## Robin Hood (Sep 16, 2013)

workindad said:


> RH, if that is the nicest and most intimate thing she has done for you... wow!


"Long way to go yet."

Yeah, it is by far the nicest thing she's done in many months, and yeah, that is a wow. But that's why it stands out. It's a rather romantic and daring gesture for her.

And yes, there is a LONG, LONG, LONG way to go. Six months of the crap that I've been taking will not be undone quick. Not to mention getting to the bottom of whatever has been going on with the sleazebag playboy -- which will occur with full disclosure and genuine remorse to my satisfaction before I'll ever consider taking her back. I've been begging her back for 6 months. Now it will be her turn to beg.

I don't know if we'll ever reconcile or not. I'm preparing myself for either. My thinking is just to do the 180, and do my own thing, and see what happens. It may be that I won't want her back. She's still very attractive to me (I still find her hot), so I'm vulnerable there. But I've realized how sick I am of a lot of her attitude and antics, and frankly right now I've been enjoying some time away from her. It's nice not to have to worry if she will approve of what I'm doing on a day to day basis.

But on the heels of the picture thing, she's actually been consistently nicer, and significantly more respectful to me than she's been in awhile. Her pattern has been to be nice to me for a max of 6 hrs to 48 hrs after some sort of blow up or big event, before she reverts back to being mean and disrespectful. I've had about 4 straight days of pretty nice right now -- kind of a record. But I have to keep working hard and guarding against being too nice back and giving her indication that everything is ok, or that I want her back right now no matter what. That's the mistake I've been making over and over again. This will take some serious discipline.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> She has noticed the difference in you. She are no longer following her shots. So now, wondering what is going she gave you the picture in a way that she hopes will turn you back to the way you were before when she could manipulate you.
> 
> Keep it up. She's noticed what you have changed.
> 
> Why not change the locks on your house so she cannot enter it on her own?


No doubt she noticed the wedding ring came off, and she noticed your change in behavior. She probably was hoping you would put the picture back up.

Cheaters like to eat cake. Your wife likes the attention of the other guy, but she doesn't want to lose yours.

Yes, the 180 is working already. I've seen it many times on these threads, it usually doesn't take too long to work. I would have guessed it might take a little longer in your situation, since you are not living together. The key is to focus on yourself, and not to think of it as a tool to get your wife back.


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## Robin Hood (Sep 16, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> She has noticed the difference in you. She are no longer following her shots. So now, wondering what is going she gave you the picture in a way that she hopes will turn you back to the way you were before when she could manipulate you.
> 
> Keep it up. She's noticed what you have changed.
> 
> Why not change the locks on your house so she cannot enter it on her own?


Thanks, EleGirl. Others have suggested changing the locks too, but I haven't done that because our 14 year old often let's herself in with the key after school or other things when I'm not here -- which isn't often these days, but it still would be hard to change the locks on my wife, but then give a key to our daughter. Right now my wife is being much more respectful and is honoring the new forewarning notice and permission rule about coming over, and if that keeps up, I think I'm ok on that issue.


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## Robin Hood (Sep 16, 2013)

Will_Kane said:


> No doubt she noticed the wedding ring came off, and she noticed your change in behavior. She probably was hoping you would put the picture back up.
> 
> Cheaters like to eat cake. Your wife likes the attention of the other guy, but she doesn't want to lose yours.
> 
> Yes, the 180 is working already. I've seen it many times on these threads, it usually doesn't take too long to work. I would have guessed it might take a little longer in your situation, since you are not living together. The key is to focus on yourself, and not to think of it as a tool to get your wife back.


Thanks, Will Kane. I realize your last line is true and especially applicable to me. I can't just fake this, and must truly focus on myself.


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## bunny23 (May 19, 2011)

Super proud of you!!!! 

You seem like a great guy.. I hope you find happiness with her, or with someone else.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Robin Hood said:


> Right now it's in the closet with a pile of t-shirts.





Robin Hood said:


> Now it will be her turn to beg.
> 
> 
> But I have to keep working hard and guarding against being too nice back and giving her indication that everything is ok, or that I want her back right now no matter what. That's the mistake I've been making over and over again. This will take some serious discipline.


You're a quick study my man. Sounds like there's a new Sheriff in town that ain't taking a lot of sh-t off folks.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

OP, 

You are on the right track with your WW. Continue to show her nothing but complete detachment.

If you have a good and close friend who you can trust to keep his mouth shut and who knows the POS, you can also use him to ramp up the pressure on this scumbag.

If mutual friends start contacting POS and asking him WTF he is doing messing around with your WW, if will put pressure on him to distance himself.

Your trustworthy friend can approach others in your mutual social circle with his concerns and they can start to pressure this guy to stop F'ing up other people's marriages.

I doubt POS wants to be a pariah. It might make him back off.

And you don't want a s**tbag like this around your daughters no matter what happens with your foolish WW.

If POS does run for cover (likely since he hides from you) and your WW then notices that you are detached and blowing her off as well, she may snap out of her bs fog and realize she is about to lose everything for a total scumbag who has disappeared at the first sign of trouble.

Maybe then she will finally start to take the steps necessary to fix this mess she has created.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Robin Hood

Will Kane is right.

You cannot use the 180 to get her back.

But you can use the 180 to be confident, kick ass, take no disrespect and be an independent, self sustaining man that loves his children.

In the end you might not want her back......

Because not only is your wife selfish , she is a lousy example for her children.

I hope you keep all your values through this hard time in your life and that your love for your family only become stronger.
HM


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You're coming along. For a subtle and successful 180/self remake read Bagdon's thread. Really terrific.

Evaluating your wife by her behavior, as opposed to her sex appeal, is an important change for you. Sticking to this will help you to avoid a false R.

Filing for D at this point could accerate a new dawn in her consciousness. The light of dawn does not always reveal a pleasant sight. 

But aside from your own personal situation you must also consider the needs of your children. Should she be allowed to have them more than 50% of the time? For if you continue this, she can go to court with it. Perhaps you need to request 50% informally. No big discussion should take place and certainly no relationship discussion.

If she refuses, maybe you should have your lawyer write her a letter. This is falls short of filing for divorce, but gives her an opportunity to fall into step. If she continues to try and hold on to control, you must file.

re: the photo
Kindness? Maybe the photo was fond memory and now she has junked it and giving the photo back was a form or rejection. Don't read to much into a single event.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I agree, I think she may have decided she no longer has any use for the picture. Being nice may be because she thinks you are finally hearing/seeing what she has been telling you.

Why haven't you talked to playboy's ex? I think she has been cheating for a long time. Lead his wife on and tell her you think her husband and your wife have been having an affair since before her divorce. See if she has any info.

Your wife hasn't filed because she doesn't have any faith in playboy. You are a dist.ant backup plan.
Hire a pi.you will get your answer quick.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Robin Hood said:


> But she actually did it nice and respectful, placing it on our bed. It is the nicest, most intimate thing she has done towards me in at least 6 months. I'm wondering if the 180 is already working.


Stop trying to decode her crumbs.
I'd totaly renew the house: no more overt displayal of family, no family pictures at all. 
The only presence of her at home should be - is she wants it - a picture of her at your daughtler's room. Period.
She left the house, make it your house.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Robin Hood

Can I ls remind you of two things that you told us in the beginning.

A. Your wife is as mean as a snake. 

That means in her mind you are the bad guy and she is not married in her mind to that bad guy. Yes that means you.

B. My wife was raised as a good catholic girl.

That means nothing other than she might feel entitled to no longer fit that mold and there is enough evidence that she has not been in that mold as you envision her for over a year now.

Stop living in limbo. Get a clearer picture of what is really going on with your wife/life and make some decisions that allow you to move on with your life.

By the way RH, I am married to a good Catholic girl. We have been married for over 22 years and have 3 daughters. 

Whenever she has an issue with me it is like pulling teeth at times but she does communicate with me because we expect that from each other.

That is the key. My wife also never lies to me. 

She considers our marriage and vows sacred. As do I.

Don't you deserve that to?

Hm


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## Robin Hood (Sep 16, 2013)

Dyokemm said:


> OP,
> 
> You are on the right track with your WW. Continue to show her nothing but complete detachment.
> 
> ...


On the POS OM front, I posted how I sent him that text saying, "[His name], please respect me and my family" the day after I found out from my 8 year old daughter about him being at my WW's place until 2:30 am that night about 2-3 weeks ago. Since then, I've also come by his place and knocked on the door 3 times, and he won't answer. One time when I was driving by to my WW's place with one of my girls I saw him in his front yard, he saw my car and he turned and quickly went inside his house. Then I sent him another text about a week ago saying. "I need to talk to you." He has never responded. So he seems to be on the run a bit. I think I'm freaking him out a little, which is what I want to do.

I also did employ a mutual friend to assist me -- a guy who actually may be slightly better friends with this POS. I told this friend about my concerns about the POS about a week before he was at my wife's place until 2:30 am. This guy talked to the POS, and then e-mailed me and called me saying everything was cool, and I had nothing to worry about. Then a few days later he's at my WW's place until 2:30 am. So I called this friend back and told him that the POS was a total scumbag, and everything certainly was not cool, and for the friend to tell the POS that now I know, and that I'm livid, and he better not come around my WW, or my kids ever again. I'm not sure exactly what this friend has told the POS, but I'm pretty sure some sort of message has been conveyed.

I've also told a few people who I trust and have my back in our social circle about what is going on with this POS guy. They are all appalled, and have told me other stories about this guy and his ways, calling him a "creep" and a "snake", etc. I think these people will be spies or lookouts for me with this guy, and are also going to and already are applying pressure, either directly to this guy, or through our social network, that this guy and my WW are not going to like. I've already heard it coming back to me through my WW with regard to one couple I told -- my WW was freaking out about it. Good, was my silent response. So I'm applying some pressure on this scumbag, and my WW, and their little f'ed up relationship or whatever it is.

I've also told my girls, and this was difficult and delicate but I hope I did it ok, that they are to have no interaction with this guy whatsoever. And that if he ever comes over, or tries to talk to them, or they hear or see him talking to their mother, then they need to let me know right away. I tried to do this carefully and without freaking them out too much, but at the same time convey the importance of this. I think they get it.

I have not yet talked to his ex-wife, but I've been thinking about doing that. I know my WW is still trying to keep up relations with her, probably as cover, and so this will be tricky. But I have a feeling this guy and his ex probably divorced at least in part due to his womanizing, so she might want to talk about it.

So that's an update on the POS OM. My WW has said she will have no contact with him, and since our confrontation about him about 2 1/2 weeks ago, I have no information or evidence that she has had any contact with him. Of course I don't know for sure, but my gut tells me she's been clear of him since then. I know this coackroach will eventually circle back around, and my WW will be tempted to let him back in, so I will keep vigilant. I will keep employing measures to try and keep him at bay and applying pressure as I've said, but in the end the most important thing for me is doing the 180 and concerning myself with me, and moving on. If she wants this guy over me, then she truly is a lost cause anyway.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I was rereading your first post. Could you explain how he grabbed her behind and patted it? Where were you sitting? Did he realize you could see him do it? Did she sit beside him and you?

In Rdmu's thread, the playboy om also was caught patting her behind well before she got caught.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Change the locks, give a key to your daughter, put out anything resembling a family in your house.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

> If she wants this guy over me, then she truly is a lost cause anyway.


Just remember that waywards always affair down.

So in your mind the OM is a loser. Who knows what state of mind your wife's head is in but I can assure she is looking and hinting of greener grass.

They always do.

Just be real and keep it real for yourself.

HM


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Can you afford a PI to get some proof ? Based on your interaction with him(and his avoiding you), it probably is the worst case scenario. The loner this goes on, the lesser chance you have.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

File. Your marriage as it was is over. Start letting your wife see the reality of the situation. Having her served divorce papers is a good start.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Robin Hood said:


> I have not yet talked to his ex-wife, but I've been thinking about doing that. I know my WW is still trying to keep up relations with her, probably as cover, and so this will be tricky.


From my experience, the more you stir sh-t the worse it stinks. However, since you believe your old lady is in contact, his ex my be a conduit to get messages through like, " I think I'm ready to get back into the dating scene and maybe try some younger gals".
(personally I think that's a good idea and is what you ought to do)


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> In Rdmu's thread, the playboy om also was caught patting her behind well before she got caught.


Yep, I forgot all about that part. You have to add the terrible part. It happened a year or so before RDMU busted his wife. I've always wondered if he groomed her from that point or if it was already in full swing.


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## ironman (Feb 6, 2013)

Robin Hood,

Looks like you're going to be okay with or without her. I'm impressed with how well you've done. Good luck to you with whatever you choose to do.


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## Silvr Surfer (Sep 25, 2013)

hang in there. What a rough spot to be in.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Any progress?


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