# Advice Please - Lost trust in wife.



## rothjl03 (Feb 13, 2012)

Hi all,

I need some advice on how to cope with this. I am 26 yrs old, me and my wife have been together for 8 yrs and married for almost 4 and we have a 3 yr old girl. I bought here an Iphone for christmas and ever since she got it she has been on it non stop. So, i just figured it was new and she was playing games and texting was easier. I trusted my wife completely and never doubted here actions one bit, i was never happier. Well, one day she's talking about all the stuff going on in her guy friends life. I didn't even know she talked to another other guys at all. So then, her guy friend who is over seas comes home to visit his newborn. She wants to go hang out with him and his sister. I was uncomfortable about it and she ended up talking me into thinking it was not big a deal. She goes that night and everything seemed normal. I start to feel something fishy in my gut. I decide to log onto here facebook and check out some stuff. I by no means like what is see. I then find out she is talking to 3 other guys that are telling her how she is beautiful and they want to do things to her. All the responses that my wife puts are about me and how she would do those things with me her husband. So, that's all good and wonderful but she never once mentions any of this or that she is even talking to other men. Then I look into her phone and find more of the same. Except, one thing is odd that she has deleted all the texts from this guy that she hung out with. I forgot to mention that she wanted to tell him goodbye at his parents house. So, being the idiot i am, i let her go. The next day we have a big argument about why her texts are deleted and then after hounding her about there being something she is not telling me for like hours. She finally then tells me that she has told him that she is not happy in our relationship and she didn't go to his parents house like she said, they supposedly rode around for like 4 hrs. Also, I then find out that this guy and his wife are talking about divorce and dont get along at all. She never mentioned that either. She says that is all that happened but i just cant believe her since she has been lying and hiding all this stuff. Someone please give some advice, i cant sleep good and i cant focus at work. I just can't get this off my mind. I have not had one single doubt about my wife's honesty in over 6 yrs. I keep thinking that she has cheated on me and wont tell me. Then, to top the cake a buddy of mind just told me how my wife was telling his wife all about how this guy on facebook keeps hounding her to have sex with him. Not only that, but they talked about it with another couple at dinner one day. I FEEL LIKE AN IDIOT!


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

> She says that is all that happened


She's lying. 99.99% sure she's lying. Your gut feeling has a lot more truth to it than anything she says.


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## rothjl03 (Feb 13, 2012)

Thank you for the response. If she is lying, how can i get the truth. I just really want some closure if that is the case. I just have this feeling that she has cheated on me. I also think that I have helped her do that by getting comfortable in our marriage and not paying her a lot of attention. I have a lot of hobbies and love to go do things. She doesn't really have any hobbies. I think that another man has swooped in and wowed her into something.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

> She finally then tells me that she has told him that she is not happy in our relationship


This seems to be the driver behind her chats with other men. Maybe it's time to address these issues, or you never will get "closure" until she walks out the door permanently.


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT (Oct 24, 2011)

You're leaving a lot of stuff out here. She's telling some guy she isn't happy? What is she telling you? Did you ask her where you two are at or are you afraid to?


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## rothjl03 (Feb 13, 2012)

Well, I have been working very very hard to make her happy and spend more time with her. I don't want to lose her and I have been making her the happiest she has been since we first started dating (which is what she says). It has indeed been a big wake up call for me to put more into our marriage and honestly i dont know what else i could do to make here happier right now. i think i am being the best husband i can possibly be right now. the only thing getting in the way is my ever annoying though that she hasnt been 100% honest with me.


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## rothjl03 (Feb 13, 2012)

MAKINGSENSEOFIT said:


> You're leaving a lot of stuff out here. She's telling some guy she isn't happy? What is she telling you? Did you ask her where you two are at or are you afraid to?


She has told me that she wishes i was more romantic, but she has never told me she wasn't happy. When i heard that, it floored me as i had no idea she was unhappy and would tell some other guy that. 

Did you ask her where you two are at or are you afraid to?

Not sure what you are asking here? Where we are at in our marriage our where they were?


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Do you not know how to say "you've crossed the line.Either we work on our marriage or I'm out of here"?


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Why is it that when a woman cheats on her husband around here his usual answer is to kiss her ass more than he ever did?

The fact that this seems to be the standard route to repair after D-day is telling in why there are D-days at all.


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## rothjl03 (Feb 13, 2012)

TBT said:


> Do you not know how to say "you've crossed the line.Either we work on our marriage or I'm out of here"?


Well, we have talked about that and I told here that in my eyes that she has crossed the line and I did not approve. She tells me that she is not talking to them anymore. In the same token, she thinks that I am overreacting and that it should be fine. That is her excuse for not telling me about talking to other men nonstop. Right now, she thinks everything is perfectly fine and she is happier than ever. But, I just can't get past thinking that she has cheated and hasn't told me about. I just don't know how to approach it.



tacoma said:


> Why is it that when a woman cheats on her husband around here his usual answer is to kiss her ass more than he ever did?
> 
> The fact that this seems to be the standard route to repair after D-day is telling in why there are D-days at all.


I don't know for sure that she has cheated on me or not. I just can't shake the thought that she has. I guess my answer to the ass kissing is that in my eyes I have not given her the attention she desires. I don't want her getting that attention from other men, so I am doing everything I can to prevent that. In saying that, I realize that I should not have to do anything to prevent her from finding affection from other men. In my opinion she shouldn't do that period!


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

Tell her you don't believe her and are almost certain she did more with that guy than just driving around.

There is almost zero chance of her being honest about that. 

Monitor her behavior and see if she gets very edgy when you talk about your feelings. If she gets angry, that's a reason to be concerned. 

Again, your gut feeling is much more powerful and accurate than you may want to believe.


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT (Oct 24, 2011)

You're just going to be spinning your wheels if there's no game plan for your relationship here. You need to both sit down and discuss what you want and if you both want to work on the relationship. This I'm not happy and will do whatever I want while you play the role of the little puppy dog following her around is nonsense.


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## rothjl03 (Feb 13, 2012)

synthetic said:


> Tell her you don't believe her and are almost certain she did more with that guy than just driving around.
> 
> There is almost zero chance of her being honest about that.
> 
> ...


I have a hard time expressing my feelings in the moment. What is everybody's thoughts of me printing this out and just letting her read it and go from there.


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT (Oct 24, 2011)

You can certainly write her a letter but the same question will remain. Where are you going to go from there? Without any communication of where things are and where you both want them to go it's hopeless.


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## rothjl03 (Feb 13, 2012)

MAKINGSENSEOFIT said:


> You're just going to be spinning your wheels if there's no game plan for your relationship here. You need to both sit down and discuss what you want and if you both want to work on the relationship. This I'm not happy and will do whatever I want while you play the role of the little puppy dog following her around is nonsense.


Thank you for saying that. I almost feel as if I have more fault and that I should feel bad about what she did more so than her. She doesn't really seem to have any remorse. I guess if nothing happened then maybe she shouldn't. If nothing happened then why has every line of communication been erased. That is what I can't get out of my head.


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## rothjl03 (Feb 13, 2012)

MAKINGSENSEOFIT said:


> You can certainly write her a letter but the same question will remain. Where are you going to go from there? Without any communication of where things are and where you both want them to go it's hopeless.


Well, I was thinking I would just print this post. Good idea or bad? I don't know where I would want to go, it depends on what happened and if she can be 100% open with me. She may have been, but i just don't feel that. Nothing she can tell me, can prevent me from wondering what was so secretive that she had to erase everything.


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT (Oct 24, 2011)

You're feelings are being played unfortunately. Is she still having contact with this person?


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## rothjl03 (Feb 13, 2012)

MAKINGSENSEOFIT said:


> You're feelings are being played unfortunately. Is she still having contact with this person?


I don't think so. She is using her phone a lot less than ever. I mean like a crap ton less. I still don't know as I found out inadvertantely that she was using a messaging service that doesn't use standard text, just data. I can't look on the phone bill and find out. It just seems so dang sneaky to go that far.


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## rothjl03 (Feb 13, 2012)

I just want to thank everyone so much. I have been dying to talk to someone about this. I really appreciate everyone's time more than you can imagine. Keep the advice coming please. I think you guys are helping me tons!


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## rothjl03 (Feb 13, 2012)

I am going to talk to her about this tonight. If she has cheated on me, I would like to think that I could get past that. If that is the case, I want to get past it. On the other hand if that is the case I don't know if I should get past it. I feel life is too short and I don't want to worry about her going places and me thinking what she could be doing while I am away. I just don't know what to do. Either way, more than anything I just want the TRUTH!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

If the cell phone your account?

You can sync up the texts and see exactly what was said.

Her phone is backed up and she doesn't even know it.

I'd simply be quiet for now. Get the back up. And find out.

People in the Infidelity forum here can tell you what to do after that.

Sadly, I think I know exactly what you'll find.

That is if you're not afraid to find it.


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## MAKINGSENSEOFIT (Oct 24, 2011)

I'm afraid to tell you but you're never going to get the truth. It's about what you do from this point on. You two will either work on the marriage together or it's time to move on.


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## rothjl03 (Feb 13, 2012)

Conrad said:


> If the cell phone your account?
> 
> You can sync up the texts and see exactly what was said.
> 
> ...


It is my account and how do i sync up the texts.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

Demand her to use her phone in front of you and send a text to the other guy and say "Hey, I have decided to tell my husband the truth about what we did. I hope you understand."

Then sit there and see what comes back.


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## heavensangel (Feb 12, 2012)

Did she specifically say "I wish you were more romantic" or did she use other verbiage that lead you to believe this is what she's missing? 

I ask, because as a woman myself, I'm guilty of using 'hints' to get my feelings/wants/needs across to my DH. Typically, 'hints' don't work on men (not bashing men here, this is exactly what my husband said. Now, if he's unsure, he'll ask if my I'm hinting or not). Anyhow....if those were her exact words, and you didn't address it at that time, then you totally missed it. 

Now, in no way, shape, or form do I agree that there's EVER a time when it's ok for a spouse to cheat. Being unhappy in any 'committed' relationship (marriage or otherwise ) is no excuse to be unfaithful. Would either/both of you consider marital counseling?


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## rothjl03 (Feb 13, 2012)

synthetic said:


> Demand her to use her phone in front of you and send a text to the other guy and say "Hey, I have decided to tell my husband the truth about what we did. I hope you understand."
> 
> Then sit there and see what comes back.


I like this! Here is what I am going to do tonight. I am going to tell her that in order for me to get over how I am feeling I am going to backup her phone and read through the recovered texts. If she doesn't come clean at that time, I am going to take her phone and recover the texts and we can read through together. If I can't get anywhere there I will send the other guy a text like you say. Brilliant. THANKS!


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Her chatting is way down because she is his gf now and she has dumped the other guys.

Sorry, but she and he clearly hooked up when he was in town and it sounds like they did a couple of times, with last one being a good private long one for the road. He was leaving that so instead of being with his family wife and kid he road around with her for a couple of hours? Yeah right. There was riding, but not in a car.

You say he's overseas? What tie zone? I bet she's talking to him, but because of the timezonedifference she sidling it when you aren't with her.

Get tough here this is clearly already a PA, sorry but it is. Her going over to say goodbye and lying about it is 100 percent clear.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jeff74 (Feb 11, 2012)

Without her admitting anything, it is hard to provide concrete proof that something has happened..but, something has happened in that she was dishonest with you at the very least. Intuition is usually pretty good about these things but don't drive yourself crazy.

Pushing and pushing her to tell you if something more happened may never work. But, if you relax about things and let her think you are ok..she might slip up and then you can catch her... . 

You may not be able to recover deleted texts, etc. but there are great ways to monitor things going forward..but your best chances of getting the truth (unless she tells you straight out) is acting happy but in th background you are on high alert. This is not easy to do..and for some it might be impossible...but it can work. 

There are so many ways to keep tabs on someone..but it's much harder if they think you are doing this so act happy and never let on that you are doing this..until you know for sure!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Oh and find the OMW and talk to her btw don't warn your wife that you are doing it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

rothjl03 said:


> Thank you for saying that. I almost feel as if I have more fault and that I should feel bad about what she did more so than her. She doesn't really seem to have any remorse. I guess if nothing happened then maybe she shouldn't. If nothing happened then why has every line of communication been erased. That is what I can't get out of my head.


One way or another your wife is being unfaithful to you. You just do not know how much yet.

This is yet another example of poor boundaries. Please see His Needs Her Needs.

It is also common that the BS feels they are at fault. 

Now why you are being so beta and so willing to accept your wife hanging out with OM i just do not know. Not sure why she would have been hanging out with a guy from overseas to see his newborn at all at his sisters. This picture is not right to me. You would think he would spend it with his wife.

Ypu indicated you did not know she was involved with any of these guys. Obviously in a very inappropriate way. Just from what you know.

Given these circumstances you have every right to be upset and demand that she go full NC with all of these guys. She lied to you to be with another man for four hours. WOW. That is unfaithful at best. 

Keep in mind that your wife has sought out these other men and enjoys the attention. They are all disrespecting you all the while.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

rothjl03 said:


> Well, I was thinking I would just print this post. Good idea or bad?


 Very bad idea as you would no longer be able to come here for advice. There are things you may be told that your wife cannot know if they are to have a chance at working.


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## rothjl03 (Feb 13, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> One way or another your wife is being unfaithful to you. You just do not know how much yet.
> 
> This is yet another example of poor boundaries. Please see His Needs Her Needs.
> 
> ...


Well, i did not accept it at first. She talked me into it. She told me that they were best friends when they were younger. Went to church together and the reason they haven't talked in years was because his sister was having an affair with a married man in church and somehow they blamed my wife for spilling the beans. So, she said they hadn't talked for years because of that. So supposedly they never had any kind of relationship other than friendship. I bought into it and she told me his sister was going to be there. Mind you, she told me his sister was going to be there before she told me the story of the sister. that didn't come out until i blew up about her talking to other men all day and night. In between the time i blew up about all this, she said she was going to his parents to tell him good bye. Kept re-asurring me that nothing could happen because his parents were there. I try to give her lots of space so as to not be too needy. But man did that bite me in the ass. Since she didn't even go over there in the first place. Believe me, it took so much to get here to admit that. I could tell she wasn't telling me everything and i still feel that way. Right now though I don't know if i am just dwelling on it and i keep having thoughts or what. AAAgggghhhhh!!!


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## rothjl03 (Feb 13, 2012)

TRy said:


> Very bad idea as you would no longer be able to come here for advice. There are things you may be told that your wife cannot know if they are to have a chance at working.


Gotcha. I am going to probe tonight. I know i should probably wait, but I just can't. I am losing sleep over this and it is affecting my performance at work. I am also going out of town for almost a week in 2 weeks. If i cant get closure by then, I am going to have the most miserable time while away.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

rothjl03 said:


> I am going to talk to her about this tonight. If she has cheated on me, I would like to think that I could get past that. If that is the case, I want to get past it. On the other hand if that is the case I don't know if I should get past it. I feel life is too short and I don't want to worry about her going places and me thinking what she could be doing while I am away. I just don't know what to do. Either way, more than anything I just want the TRUTH!


I would just advise you to not rug sweep this. You are already in the mindset to forgive her and you don't even know the extent of what she did and how much she has deceived you.

Starting the conversation with your wife off with I forgive you so tell me what you did is a display of low value on your part. She seems to be seeking out Alpha males. You will push her away if you come off as too Beta. A balance of Beta and Alpha is the goal of course, but she is seeking out Alpha men. So either you get Alpha or Darwin takes over.

In essence you are letting other men dominate you with your wife. Men are supposed to not accpet that BTW. Alpha men.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

rothjl03 said:


> I like this! Here is what I am going to do tonight. I am going to tell her that in order for me to get over how I am feeling I am going to backup her phone and read through the recovered texts. If she doesn't come clean at that time, I am going to take her phone and recover the texts and we can read through together. If I can't get anywhere there I will send the other guy a text like you say. Brilliant. THANKS!


No. You should do what was suggested. Backup the phone first. Examine the texts. Do not reveal your source of information.

Do not decide yet how you feel. Get the information first. You actually know a lot right now. She has already been unfaithful. What is your boundary?


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## rothjl03 (Feb 13, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> I would just advise you to not rug sweep this. You are already in the mindset to forgive her and you don't even know the extent of what she did and how much she has deceived you.
> 
> Starting the conversation with your wife off with I forgive you so tell me what you did is a display of low value on your part. She seems to be seeking out Alpha males. You will push her away if you come off as too Beta. A balance of Beta and Alpha is the goal of course, but she is seeking out Alpha men. So either you get Alpha or Darwin takes over.
> 
> In essence you are letting other men dominate you with your wife. Men are supposed to not accpet that BTW. Alpha men.


You have me to the tee. That was kind of my tactic. I was going to tell her that we need to talk. I was going to tell her that she had one last chance to tell me all of the truth and that I already know everything. But this was going to be her last chance to come clean if I could ever trust her again. In order for me to trust her she had to tell me everything and not base it upon what i supposedly know. If I got nowhere with that I was going to take her phone and sync it up and try to find the deleted texts and read through them. If that didn't work, I was going to do as one suggested. Send the guy a message and see where that went. That's all my ideas right now. It sounds like you can point me in the right direction.


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## rothjl03 (Feb 13, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> No. You should do what was suggested. Backup the phone first. Examine the texts. Do not reveal your source of information.
> 
> Do not decide yet how you feel. Get the information first. You actually know a lot right now. She has already been unfaithful. What is your boundary?


The problem is, that she will not let the phone out of her sight. She sleeps with the damn thing. She has overstepped my boundaries by enough to get me doubting anything she says. At this point right now I am almost hoping that she tells me she cheated. I know I am probably way off base, but in my mind I think I would feel better knowing that she is being honest. If she did tell me, I am sure it would be a whole other story. I don't know that I could get past it. I am sorry if I am all over the place, but I have never been in this situation and it is messing me up bad.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

rothjl03 said:


> Well, i did not accept it at first. She talked me into it. She told me that they were best friends when they were younger. Went to church together and the reason they haven't talked in years was because his sister was having an affair with a married man in church and somehow they blamed my wife for spilling the beans. So, she said they hadn't talked for years because of that. So supposedly they never had any kind of relationship other than friendship. I bought into it and she told me his sister was going to be there. Mind you, she told me his sister was going to be there before she told me the story of the sister. that didn't come out until i blew up about her talking to other men all day and night. In between the time i blew up about all this, she said she was going to his parents to tell him good bye. Kept re-asurring me that nothing could happen because his parents were there. I try to give her lots of space so as to not be too needy. But man did that bite me in the ass. Since she didn't even go over there in the first place. Believe me, it took so much to get here to admit that. I could tell she wasn't telling me everything and i still feel that way. Right now though I don't know if i am just dwelling on it and i keep having thoughts or what. AAAgggghhhhh!!!


Obviously what you just wrote makes sense to you. I am not trying to beat you up but none of this says yeah sure it is ok for your wife to be with this guy. You should have gone with her to say "good bye".

Is he in the military? Is he going back off to war?

She is gaslighting you now. I donlt really get this friendship anyway.

I am on the record against close opposite sex friends in a marriage BTW. I learned the hard way I could not do that either. I do have friends who are women but I am not texting them or hanging out with them. There is no sexual banter. Again there or no boundaries here.

Please go read up on being a nice guy in the Men's section. Many men are terminally nice guys. 

Do not be surprised if this guy is already an ex lover. 

Why are you being so nice about all of this? Seriously.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

rothjl03 said:


> The problem is, that she will not let the phone out of her sight. She sleeps with the damn thing. She has overstepped my boundaries by enough to get me doubting anything she says. At this point right now I am almost hoping that she tells me she cheated. I know I am probably way off base, but in my mind I think I would feel better knowing that she is being honest. If she did tell me, I am sure it would be a whole other story. I don't know that I could get past it. I am sorry if I am all over the place, but I have never been in this situation and it is messing me up bad.


It is an iphone. The texts are already backed up. She logs into iTunes right? She charges her phone. The texts are backed up to the computer.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

> Re: Advice Please - Lost trust in wife.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ...


She cheated on you. The first mistake you made was letting her go and see the guy and his siters in the first place. Then you should have kicked her out the minute she admitted to going driving around with him for four hours.

Yeah... there was some driving going on alright....

Quit being a sap.

Do what the other posters are telling you. Do not tell your wife what you are going to do. Try not to be an idiot. Why would you tip your hand to her? She is going to try to hide everything. She has outsmarted you at every turn, and giving her your tells is going to make it that much harder to catch her.

Just listen to what people are telling you, be calm and quit acting like a hyper schoolboy.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

rothjl03 said:


> It is my account and how do i sync up the texts.


Call the Apple Store.

They'll tell you exactly how to do it.


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## rothjl03 (Feb 13, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> Obviously what you just wrote makes sense to you. I am not trying ti beat you up but none of this says yeah sure it is ok for your wife to be with this guy. You shoukd have gone with her to say "good bye".
> 
> Is he in the military? Is he going back off to war?
> 
> ...


Yes, he is in the military. I don't think he is an ex lover as I haven't heard about him before and she has told me about all of her ex lovers. Take that with a grain of salt though as I thought she wouldn't lie in the first place but she did so in the end, i don't know. 

I am terminally a nice guy for sure. As I hear, nice guys finish last.

I guess I am being so nice about this because I am so dang laid back. It may sound weird, but I am not really mad as much as betrayed and I think that if I could just get some closure no matter the outcome I would stop thinking about it. I may be completely wrong and probably am. I just don't know how to think about all this. I just want the damn truth.


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## rothjl03 (Feb 13, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> It is an iphone. The texts are already backed up. She logs into iTunes right? She charges her phone. The texts are backed up to the computer.


Well, the computer started running slow and i reformatted it. Like a moron apparently. I don't think it has been synced up in quite a while though.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Call the Apple store.

Call them tonight.


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## rothjl03 (Feb 13, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> She cheated on you. The first mistake you made was letting her go and see the guy and his siters in the first place. Then you should have kicked her out the minute she admitted to going driving around with him for four hours.
> 
> Yeah... there was some driving going on alright....
> 
> ...


Okay, I know that I should not be irrational. To be honest it is really fricken hard for me right now. I am also very very impatient. But, I will wait it out and go from there. I appreciate all the help, i really do. Alot of it I don't want to here but I think I need to.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

I think I would misplace her iPhone for her. You know to celebrate Valentines day.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

roth,

Stop being a nice guy right now.

Do the 180 like your life depended on it and don`t let up until she`s a quivering mass of snot and running mascara.

SurvivingInfidelity.com - Support for those affected by Infidelity

Demand her phone, she gives it to you right then at that second for you to do with as you wish (Back it up to an accessible computer)or she gets the hell out.

This is not controlling, this is not being an *******, this is demanding that she confront the fact that she`s lying, cheating, and disrespecting you.

If she won`t give you the phone it`s over.

Get your balls back in order.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

This is most definitely at the very least, a deep Emotional Affair (EA), and most likely has gone Physical Affair (PA). If you can get the back up log, you can download 

iPhone Backup Extractor for Windows and Mac










If she uses any texting or chat apps, the backup extractor wont be able to show those, just thru the regular texting app. But get the phone from her ASAP. Its obvious this is the affair phone.

And request a mod to move this thread to the Coping With Infidelity forum.


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## rothjl03 (Feb 13, 2012)

Well, thank you everyone for all the help. I confronted her and hounded and hounded until I got the truth out. She had cheated on me that last time she went and seen him. We have since been to marriage counseling and I completely understand how it happened. He gave her the attention she was getting from me and she went and slept with him. She told me she had so much regret that she couldn't finish the act and cut it off almost immediately. Since that night, she has not contacted him once. She told me all the details down to everything and I do truly believe her. She is remorseful and has been apologizing for it for 3 weeks now. My problem is, I just don't know if I can forgive this. I am not sure that I want to have a woman for my wife that is that weak to have done that. I understand that I wasn't giving her what she needed to feel loved, but that is no excuse to go and sleep with someone else. I feel that when things got tough she just jumped ship. We are making each other happier than we ever have right now, but I just don't know if I can get past the fact that she strayed. She tells me that it will never happen again, but I find that hard to believe since she told me early on in our relationship that she felt very strong about fidelity and she would never do that since her mom did that to her dad and she was stuck in the middle of that and knew the hurt it caused. I just don't know if I can trust her again. 

Any help would be much appreciated!

Thanks in advance.


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## rothjl03 (Feb 13, 2012)

Also, how do I get this moved to coping with infidelity forum?


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Ask a mod to move it.

Sorry about this. It sucks.

One piece of advice is don't forgive too easily. If she pays no price she is motivated to do it again. 

Read up in the CIW forum and good luck.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Your wife is one flaky woman. Good that you eventually found out. I am guessing that they went to a hotel that night. 

How old are your two? I would suggest that you jump ship before you have kids. Dump her before you are stuck with her for the rest of your life.


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## HazelGrove (Feb 29, 2012)

Your wife is human, that's all; just as you were when you forgot to give her attention. If she has true remorse and wishes to make amends, and if you start giving her the attention she sought elsewhere, then you two should be able to build a happy marriage - one not built on idealism and false notions of perfection, but on the understanding that you both have areas of weakness, and that together, you can help each other overcome them. 

As for forgiveness...don't force it. You can decide that you are committed to forgiving her and then let the forgiveness arise naturally, as you work through your feelings, as you do the MC together and as you observe her new behaviour. At the same time, be the alpha male, not a walkover. Let her know you'll not take any such shenanigans in the future.


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## strikethree (Mar 8, 2012)

HazelGrove said:


> Your wife is human, that's all; just as you were when you forgot to give her attention. If she has true remorse and wishes to make amends, and if you start giving her the attention she sought elsewhere, then you two should be able to build a happy marriage - one not built on idealism and false notions of perfection, but on the understanding that you both have areas of weakness, and that together, you can help each other overcome them.


I registered just to voice my opinion at how offensive I find this line of thinking. Why should the husband take responsibility for his wife's cheating? That's all on her. 

Repeat after me: Women are responsible for their actions just as much as men are.


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## HazelGrove (Feb 29, 2012)

strikethree said:


> I registered just to voice my opinion at how offensive I find this line of thinking. Why should the husband take responsibility for his wife's cheating? That's all on her.
> 
> Repeat after me: Women are responsible for their actions just as much as men are.


I don't think you understood me: 

She is responsible for her cheating.

He is responsible for his neglect. 

Both cheating and neglect are a problem in a relationship. Both have to be addressed. The cheating by her; the neglect by him.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

"The cheating by her; the neglect by him"

Also hogwash.

She also shares in the problems of the marriage. At most he is only responsible for 50% of the marriage.

So if my wife neglects my needs (which is one of our issues) she owns all of that? I have no responsibility to raise the issue and try and resolve it? I can then run off and have an affair?


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

Hazel I understand your thought pattern but he was under the impression that all was well in "Camelot". If you are on the verge of cheating and your are frustrated with the lack of affection from your spouse the steps are not to go immediately to the affair but to communicate your frustration with your naive and or uninformed spouse.


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## HazelGrove (Feb 29, 2012)

RClawson said:


> Hazel I understand your thought pattern but he was under the impression that all was well in "Camelot". If you are on the verge of cheating and your are frustrated with the lack of affection from your spouse the steps are not to go immediately to the affair but to communicate your frustration with your naive and or uninformed spouse.


I agree. I'm not excusing her. I'm saying that in the position where they are now, they both have work to do to make the reconciliation a real one and correct where they _personally_ went wrong. The burden of making a marriage work falls equally on both partners.


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## HazelGrove (Feb 29, 2012)

Toffer said:


> She also shares in the problems of the marriage. At most he is only responsible for 50% of the marriage.
> 
> So if my wife neglects my needs (which is one of our issues) she owns all of that? I have no responsibility to raise the issue and try and resolve it? I can then run off and have an affair?


You're also not understanding what I'm writing. I agree absolutely with you. See what I wrote just above ^^.

If this couple were to reconcile based only on her cheating, and start from the premise that 'she's all wrong, he's all right', then the reconciliation is doomed. The lack of communication, the lack of understanding, the blindness between the two would not be resolved. She would always be tempted to seek relief outside the marriage, without learning to share her concerns; he would always be tempted to miss the cues, be complacent, and now, see himself only as a victim. Unless someone is a sex addict or is going through some wholly personal crisis, infidelity is usually a symptom of a marriage that has become dysfunctional. Both generally carry some responsibility for that dysfunction and both have to work to remedy it. 

I'm not removing from that any of the pain caused by infidelity. But to go beyond the pain and to repair a marriage - if that's what both parties truly want - there needs to be work done together.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

You will never again have the level of trust you once had. And should not. No more blind trust. As many say, trust but verify. Blind trust is lazy and weak. A type of neglect in itself.

Your marriage the way it was is gone. You will not be able to have that marriage any longer. If you R then it has to be as a new marriage going forward.

For me, this would have been a deal breaker. But that is just me. Do not push yourself. Frankly not getting attention is no excuse to go have sex with someone else.

This is not your fault. Also realize that marriage is work. There is no husband that meets all his wifes needs 100% 100% of the time. We can always do better.

Just saying she is human does not work for me. Humans have brains. If she is so weak as a human to do this is she really worthy of being your wife.

Good luck. But as to your original question you have to change in your mind what trust really means to you.

I would suggest that maybe you need to move on and learn from your marriage. Maybe you should find someone else who can remain faithful to you. Someone worthy of meeting her needs. Someone you can have trust in. BUT, if you do that do not go back to blind trust. Be more engaged in the marriage in hopes that you could catch this type of thing sooner.

Above all do not rug sweep this. If the next relationship is with your current wife then fine. But in any case it is new.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

HazelGrove said:


> You're also not understanding what I'm writing. I agree absolutely with you. See what I wrote just above ^^.
> 
> If this couple were to reconcile based only on her cheating, and start from the premise that 'she's all wrong, he's all right', then the reconciliation is doomed. The lack of communication, the lack of understanding, the blindness between the two would not be resolved. She would always be tempted to seek relief outside the marriage, without learning to share her concerns; he would always be tempted to miss the cues, be complacent, and now, see himself only as a victim. Unless someone is a sex addict or is going through some wholly personal crisis, infidelity is usually a symptom of a marriage that has become dysfunctional. Both generally carry some responsibility for that dysfunction and both have to work to remedy it.
> 
> I'm not removing from that any of the pain caused by infidelity. But to go beyond the pain and to repair a marriage - if that's what both parties truly want - there needs to be work done together.


She is very much all wrong for cheating. Yes I understand that the marriage is 50 / 50. But this is not a do over. She failed to remain faithful. She did not burn dinner or get in a fender bender. She banged another guy. She has to do the heavy lifting. This is partly why this is a deal breaker for me.

Not meeting a need, especially if you are unaware is not an excuse to have another mans penis inserted again and again until his load is emptied insdie of you. Most husbands feel this is supremely disrespectful. The also do not see the equivalence of "not showing enough attention". A spouse has not right to take this position. If your needs are not being met, deal with it. Do not spread your legs for another man and then come running back and apologizing and saying you would not have done this if your needs were met.

Now from a mans perspective in general I think you should endeavor to meet your wifes needs. Realize however that you can meet her needs and she can still end up having sex with another man. You are just trying to reduce the risk. That said is she does not respect you she may do it anyway. Life is not fair. You can only choose a woman of quality and put your marriage as the #1 priority. You then have to have personal boundaries to be able to say enough is enough.


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## HazelGrove (Feb 29, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> She is very much all wrong for cheating. Yes I understand that the marriage is 50 / 50. But this is not a do over. She failed to remain faithful. She did not burn dinner or get in a fender bender. She banged another guy. She has to do the heavy lifting. This is partly why this is a deal breaker for me.


But you are not the one trying to reconcile. It's the OP. A reconciliation takes two to work, and marriage is supposed to be for a long time. It won't work if it's based entirely on the premise that the only problem is the cheating. It's not. It's what made the whole thing explode and it broke the whole circle of trust between them - but it's also the last-stage symptom of a marriage gone wrong. And if the OP didn't know anything was wrong beforehand, I would suggest that there was some real problems in communication between them that led to this. When there's a reconciliation and an attempt to make a failed marriage work, then everything has to go on the table, all the pain, the doubts, the remorse, the fear, the lack of communication. Everything. 

Not everyone wants to do that. For some people, infidelity is a deal breaker, and no-one can blame them, infidelity is so hurtful. But since this couple have decided to reconcile... then they might as well do it fully and give themselves a chance.


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## strikethree (Mar 8, 2012)

HazelGrove said:


> Both cheating and neglect are a problem in a relationship. Both have to be addressed. The cheating by her; the neglect by him.


These two problems are NOT equivalent. Not even close. Cheating is a breach of the marital contract. "Neglect" could be due to simple complacency, and I challenge you find a marriage that hasn't had some amount of complacency.

Anyhow, back to the OP:

First off, the marriage ended when she broke the marital vows. You can decide to try to reconcile and build a new marriage, but it will be an uphill battle.

1) You won't trust her for years, if ever. And rightly so.

2) If you take her back she will have cheated and got away with it. Be careful of the waterworks. She may be manipulating you to simply cake eat.

3) Your marriage is short. The longer you delay the more likely you will pay more alimony for longer.

4) Your daughter is young. She likely won't have memories of the divorce. As sad as a broken family is, it's worse to have a dysfunctional one, and the risk of that is high if you stay.

5) You are young and have a full life ahead of you. Many people don't get married until after your age. 

In short, OP, I think you should cut your losses and get out. Even if you are considering reconciliation, file papers to make sure your wife know you mean business. Until then it's just fun and games for them.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

HazelGrove said:


> But you are not the one trying to reconcile. It's the OP. A reconciliation takes two to work, and marriage is supposed to be for a long time. It won't work if it's based entirely on the premise that the only problem is the cheating. It's not. It's what made the whole thing explode and it broke the whole circle of trust between them - but it's also the last-stage symptom of a marriage gone wrong. And if the OP didn't know anything was wrong beforehand, I would suggest that there was some real problems in communication between them that led to this. When there's a reconciliation and an attempt to make a failed marriage work, then everything has to go on the table, all the pain, the doubts, the remorse, the fear, the lack of communication. Everything.
> 
> Not everyone wants to do that. For some people, infidelity is a deal breaker, and no-one can blame them, infidelity is so hurtful. But since this couple have decided to reconcile... then they might as well do it fully and give themselves a chance.


He cannot rug sweep. She must do the heavy lifting. Yes they should do His Needs Her Needs but he did not cause her to be unfaithful.

Cheating happens in the best of marriages. It is not just the last thing. She destroyed her marriage. 

Basically I think you have made a good case for him to let her go. If this was just the last part of a failed marriage he should move on. If their marriage was good and this happened then he needs to figure out how to salvage what was good about it. If the answer is nothing then move on.

You seem to take the stance that, ok I cheated but I did it because my needs were not met. It can't be that way.

I do agree they need to do His Needs Her Needs. Which in effect puts everything on the table. I think it is the way you are approcahing your point. It cannot be a power play by the cheater. I think assuming this marriage was totally fried before this happened is a big assumption. I don't know. But again if it was, then why stay together?

Let me use an example. Lets say instead of cheating the husband is not having his sexual needs met. So he starts drinking a lot and starts beating his wife. He is totally wrong for beating his wife. 

You can say well beating his wife is illegal and having sex is not. Fine but that does not describe the pain of the husband in having his wife have sex with another man. For a man, this can be like being raped. It strips him of everything. Men are humiliated to the core. My point is that not all offenses can be equated.


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## HazelGrove (Feb 29, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> He cannot rug sweep. She must do the heavy lifting. Yes they should do His Needs Her Needs but he did not cause her to be unfaithful.


Where in the statement: 
"When there's a reconciliation and an attempt to make a failed marriage work, then everything has to go on the table, all the pain, the doubts, the remorse, the fear, the lack of communication. Everything" 

do you read rug-sweeping? It is just the opposite. It's clear that if all they look at is the infidelity, then they are rug-sweeping. They are not dealing with all the issues - hers, his - that led to the infidelity. And if they are serious about reconciliation, they should be looking at all the issues, or else the problems will start again. 

Actually, I think neglect can sometimes be as bad as infidelity. If it's sustained and deep, it's a form of infidelity. We don't marry to be ignored or rejected or invisible.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

HazelGrove said:


> Where in the statement:
> "When there's a reconciliation and an attempt to make a failed marriage work, then everything has to go on the table, all the pain, the doubts, the remorse, the fear, the lack of communication. Everything"
> 
> do you read rug-sweeping? It is just the opposite. It's clear that if all they look at is the infidelity, then they are rug-sweeping. They are not dealing with all the issues - hers, his - that led to the infidelity. And if they are serious about reconciliation, they should be looking at all the issues, or else the problems will start again.
> ...


Not for me. Neglect is bad. Adults deal with that. You see equivalence for need of attention and infidelity. I don't. We have to agree to disagree here.

In His Needs Her Needs it is pointed out that men and women can have similar needs in differing priorities.

Men usually have sexual fullfillment as #1. Then respect and so on. Women put Attention very high.

I do not support a man cheating on his wife if she is not meeting these needs. He needs to deal with it and if not satisfied he needs to move on. Not bang some other woman. 

A woman banging another man is not meeting her husbands major need of sexual fullfillment. She is not being exclusive with him. She definitely is disrespecting him.

No moral equivalence. No excuse for cheating.

It comes down to ones value system. We have different value systems. Not all men have the same as I do. Some seem to put up with their wives having all sorts of extramarital shinnanigans. They must see something in the relationship worth this abuse.


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## rothjl03 (Feb 13, 2012)

First of all, thank you everyone for the advice your are giving me. It is so much appreciated in my hard time right now!

I never in a million years would think that I could stay with someone that wasn't completely faithful. Going to marriage counseling has opened my eyes up to the fact that I didn't even know what my wife's needs where nor did I really understand what mine where. With the way that we were not meeting each other's needs, it is surprising to me that this didn't happen earlier. Not just with her, I feel as though I could have done the same easy enough. Let me emphasize, I am by no means sweeping this under the rug nor taking responsibility for her actions. She is the one that decided to do the deed, not me! We very much love each other and were doing things for the other that did not make us feel loved by the other. I thought providing for her and working on her car and working on the house was enough for her to feel loved and she thought that cooking me dinner every night was enough for me to feel loved. We now have learned that what makes her happy is quality time and words of affirmation. What makes me happy is physical touch and words of affirmation. All these years we have been trying to please each other in all the wrong ways. I understand that we have been neglecting each other and I want to be the best husband I can be, because I think it is worth it to me to reconcile. Don't take this as I am going to kiss her ass, I don't kiss anybody's ass. It's really hard for me to jump ship and want to start a new relationship when for the first time I feel connected to my wife. I think I now understand her needs and she mine. I now know what to look for and not blindly trust.

Any help here is just so much appreciated, you guys have no idea.

Note: I am by no means excusing this behavior, it is unacceptable on so many levels!


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## rothjl03 (Feb 13, 2012)

Something I thought I would mention.

I am not looking for other's thoughts on whether I should leave or not. I have made my decision to stay and work it out as long as she is trying as hard as I and we are making progress. I just really need support here.

Thanks!

HazelGrove - Your posts are very helpful to me THANKS.


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## LabTool (Sep 8, 2011)

Well..., it seems someone hasn't hit the anger stage yet.


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## rothjl03 (Feb 13, 2012)

LabTool said:


> Well..., it seems someone hasn't hit the anger stage yet.


I disagree with that one! I am still very very angry about the whole situation.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

So is she remorseful and willingly transparent and did she send the NC letter? Or are you merelh working toward that? If not then you're just rug sweepin and this will end up as False R.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rothjl03 (Feb 13, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> So is she remorseful and willingly transparent and did she send the NC letter? Or are you merelh working toward that? If not then you're just rug sweepin and this will end up as False R.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


In my opinion, she is extremely remorseful. She has done the following things, so far:

She told the OP that she messed up and she wasn't going to talk to him again. This was supposedly 3 weeks before all the truth was surfaced. Around that time, her phone use and computer use drastically dropped off.

She has been apologizing every day for a month now and freely leaves her phone laying around and encourages me to look through it any time. She could care less about her phone where before it was like the most important thing in the world and not to be messed with by anyone!

She has deleted her facebook which is where the contact had started to begin with.

She has wrote the NC letter which I have read and am going to deliver to the mail myself for some peace of mind in that area.

I really feel like there is nothing more she can do to show remorse for what she has put me through. Any time we talk about it, i let her know that I am not excusing it by no means and let her know that I am deeply hurt and angry about the whole thing. I think she could attest that I am by no means rug sweeping this thing. IT IS A BIG DEAL TO ME!

I have also set the boundaries that were never in place before. I let her know that I will never blindly trust again.

I am by no means forgiving and forgetting this. I am forgiving her to give me freedom from her unfaithfulness. I am in no way going to forget this, but I am going to give her a second chance as I feel we both deserve that.

Thanks everyone!


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