# Oral That Wains



## icemans.insights (May 5, 2015)

I'm just tossing this out as a spontaneous rant. Anyone who wants to add to what I'm posting please feel free. I'd love to hear what most married women feel explains this phenomenon. 

I think I speak for most married men when I say there's no worse feeling than the woman you dated and fell in love with, who was putting out copious levels of oral during the dating period, then limits or completely refrains from it at some time during the marriage. 

If a woman who wasn't into oral during the dating period with her eventual husband, or she just candidly told the guy that she married it wasn't her thing, that's on him. He has to live with that decision. 

But it comes off as deceptive and disingenuous when a woman is "so into it" during your courting period, only to stop or limit that portion of your relationship after the vows are spoken. 

It's one thing if the guy lets his hygiene go and her interest wains for that reason. That goes without saying. 

For me, it hasn't been 100% a lack thereof, but there's certainly been a lot less than what I experienced earlier. And the irony is that I put out endless amounts of oral for her covering long sessions which she loves and quite frankly, I do as well. But it's a turn on for me to bring her to that point. 

There are guys in worse situations than mine, and my situation isn't entirely negative mind you. I just felt the need to rant tonight.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

intheory said:


> Have you kept up your hygiene? I'm guessing you have. But just to be sure; rub your hand around in your privates, then smell your hand right away. Anything "off" about the odor? Could you have jock itch, or something else going on with your genitals, healthwise.
> 
> Have you changed your behavior during oral? That is to say, have you started to thrust much more intensely? Do you now insist on entering her throat; where before her mouth was enough?
> 
> ...


Oral is considered by some men to be the most intimate sexual act there is. 

When did she stop giving? Recently? 

You two having disagreements or issues in any other area? Refusal to give could indicate that she has lost some respect for you.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Are you asking for oral as foreplay or oral as the only act? If you're wanting just a bj standalone- do you do that as well or is her oral part of foreplay/before sex? Does she O from penetration or just oral?

As someone who loves giving BJs but stopped enjoying it/doing it a lot some things that turned me off of them:

Asking too much. Especially if we are getting intimate and I think we're going to have sex and all of a sudden "can I get a bj?" Total turn off and a feeling like my needs didn't matter at all. 
Or "I have my period/not really in the mood/my back is out and really hurting" "Oh... can I get a bj then?" Or "I just got out of the shower and we don't have time for sex but how about a bj?"
It's just not sexy and giving oral is a sexy act. He stopped asking, I started doing it more. 

Also feeling like my orgasms were part of a whole act, they were foreplay, that included him also getting off every time but a full bj for him meant I went without.That's where my first question comes from. Too much of that can leave you with a feeling like you're being used, like your orgasms don't matter as much as his, like you can't even get into it that much because you'll get turned on and be left hanging. 
So just be sure if your asking for solo bjs that your prepared to do the same for her OR give her a good oral session once she's done and all worked up. 

Another thing that would annoy me is wasn't loving, connecting, like it should be. It would be give bj and he zips up and goes about his day. I remember sometimes feeling like a hooker that didn't even get money out of the deal. Now when I give one, he takes the time after to bring me up to him hold me against his chest, rubs my back, kisses my head, tells me how amazing that was and we take a moment to just cuddle before we go about our day. Makes a lot of difference and leaves me feeling like I just did an act of love vs. I just got used.


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## Angel82 (Sep 7, 2015)

Have you tried to straight out ask why. 

Maybe its a confidence issue maybe she thinks you need it or want it all the time and dont desire her body only.I was on the flip side of this. Kinda just took an approach that it was something i wanted and enjoyed to enhance our sex life. Go slow as she may have lost the benefit of being a giver if its so far inbetween. If you have sex 2 a week ask fot some lip service once noy twice and when she does and if you let her know that you are enjoying the heck out of it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

The ol' bait'n'switch. Off with her marriage!

Step one, tell her you've noticed the great decrease in oral with marriage, but you still do it for her. Ask her to ramp it back up. If she refuses, give her the experience of little to no oral for a couple of months. If she says nothing or starts turning you down for sex, have another conversation about how to fix it. If that doesn't work, either decide to live with it or divorce her. Sexual incompatibility usually gets worse over time, not better. You must catch and fix these problems quickly as there is little chance you can later. IMO, any significant incompatibility that exists or develops during dating or marriage is sufficient reason to terminate the relationship. (I made the mistake of not doing this in my first marriage, and paid a heavy price for not moving on as soon as insoluble problems developed. Never again.)


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

icemans.insights said:


> For me, it hasn't been 100% a lack thereof, but there's certainly been a lot less than what I experienced earlier.


When I was little I used to eat push pops ice cream all the time, and it was a moment that I really looked forward to in my day when I was at school.










Now a days my desire to eat push pops is not 0%, as occasionally I'll buy some and reminisce in my playful youthfulness, but to be honest my tastes have changed. Now that I have matured (not according to my wife by the way) I actually have a more of a taste for just simple natural fresh fruits for dessert.










While this analogy is not the same as oral sex in a relationship, it might give you a better idea of what is going on and get you to think outside the box...

Badsanta


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Depends on what you mean by wains @icemans.insights. Did you go from daily bjs to once a week/couple of weeks or was it a daily to a yearly thing? Big difference in those two scenarios. If it's the former,then I would agree with @badsanta and say this is just part of the maturing/changing process in a relationship. Depending on how long you dated before marrying, you may not have gotten to the point to experience her 'natural' self. Natural meaning after the lust brain chemicals have abated. 

FTR, your situation is not unusual or specific to oral sex. I jokingly asked my husband the other day 'where's the guy who used to talk to me for hours on the telephone?' after he tried to rush me through a story I was telling him. He laughed, I laughed....it's called life in a long term relationship.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*If she is doing this from the standpoint that to win you over as her BF, that she unselfishly performs oral on you; and then just as soon as the "I do's" are made, she develops the mental mindset of "I've got you now, so I no longer have to put that thing of yours in my mouth, or even anyplace else," without just and proper cause, is often faulty and fatal logic on her part!

To employ that tactic is nothingmore than a self-serving, disingenuous act on her, or anyone else's part who tries to make use it of it for their own fearful and selfish ends!

To do so greatly demonstrates that the person doesn't have the first damned clue as to what both physical and psychological love is all about!
*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Lila said:


> Depending on how long you dated before marrying, you may not have gotten to the point to experience her 'natural' self. Natural meaning after the lust brain chemicals have abated.


Also keep in mind that when you are "dating" that these issues can come into play:

• She is not ready to go all the way and let you cum inside her, so she substitutes oral sex as your consolation prize until she feels safer in the relationship. 

• When dating it is likely that a means of birth control has yet to be fully established, and oral sex may seem like the more responsible choice to express her desire to make you happy.

Anecdotally I once remember a story from a friend that dated this girl that gave awesome blow jobs, but would under NO CIRCUMSTANCES allow a boyfriend to penetrate her. What had happened was that her father was ill and had made her promise never to allow boys to have sex with her until she was married, and shortly thereafter he passed away. So she wanted to keep her word but still show her boyfriends that she loved them and wanted to please them, so she told them they could have as much oral sex as they wanted but that she would not go all the way until she was married as keeping her promise to her father was important to her. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Maybe it just gets old looking at the same old penis for x number of years.
I am certain a new "penis" is very unique and exciting, at first.
Add 24 years to that (as in my case) and I figure it's just the same old, same old.

In my opinion, the ONLY way to get your wife back into it is to get her back into YOU.
You must make life fun and exciting for her in all OTHER ways.
After that, your penis might start looking like John Holmes' tool.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

There's always a chance that she doesn't know what this means to you.

Ask her about it. If she says it's something you've been doing differently, consider changing your behavior.

If it's just that she doesn't feel it is necessary put as much effort into pleasing you as she did before you were married, that's a BIG problem and a sign of more to come.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

icemans.insights said:


> I'm just tossing this out as a spontaneous rant. Anyone who wants to add to what I'm posting please feel free. I'd love to hear what most married women feel explains this phenomenon.
> 
> I think I speak for most married men when I say there's no worse feeling than the woman you dated and fell in love with, who was putting out copious levels of oral during the dating period, then limits or completely refrains from it at some time during the marriage.
> 
> ...


I am in the totally opposite situation....Almost NEVER early on, and totally normal now, even offered spontaneously....


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Woodchuck said:


> I am in the totally opposite situation....Almost NEVER early on, and totally normal now, even offered spontaneously....


Same here...sort of. It was always a regular things for us from the get go, but it has increased in quantity and quality as time has gone on, to the point where she swallows, and says it's one of her favorite things to do.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

UMP said:


> Maybe it just gets old looking at the same old penis for x number of years.
> I am certain a new "penis" is very unique and exciting, at first.
> Add 24 years to that (as in my case) and I figure it's just the same old, same old.
> *
> ...


:iagree:

It's not really about how the penis looks or how familiar it is. It's about how a woman sees and feels about the man the penis is attached to. After some years of marriage, she might not give bj's as freely as she used to because the relationship isn't as exciting as it used to be, and maybe the way the couple relates to each other has changed.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

norajane said:


> :iagree:
> 
> It's not really about how the penis looks or how familiar it is. *It's about how a woman sees and feels about the man the penis is attached to.* After some years of marriage, she might not give bj's as freely as she used to because the relationship isn't as exciting as it used to be, and maybe the way the couple relates to each other has changed.


True. And that feeling may change after the glow of a new relationship wears off. It seems that many women often see this as expected and normal and most guys are surprised if/when it happens.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Buddy400 said:


> True. And that feeling may change after the glow of a new relationship wears off. It seems that many women often see this as expected and normal and most guys are surprised if/when it happens.


Why do you think that is? I mean, it's about brain chemistry...it's science. I would think men would be just as familiar with the rush of hormones that makes new relationships heady and exciting, and just as familiar with the effect when the hormones die down after that initial 1-2 year period.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Have your eating habits changed? The way a mans semen tastes is influenced by diet. Maybe your taste changed when your diet changed?


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

norajane said:


> Why do you think that is? I mean, it's about brain chemistry...it's science. I would think men would be just as familiar with the rush of hormones that makes new relationships heady and exciting, and just as familiar with the effect when the hormones die down after that initial 1-2 year period.


I think that's the whole struggle in keeping long term monogamous sex interesting. I have been at this for 24 years and it is my quest to somehow keep sex "new".

For example, I just got my "red velvet peek-a-boo love mask" in the mail from Amazon. I have never had my wife try this during sex in 24 years. Tonight will be the first time. 
Wish me luck!


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

norajane said:


> Why do you think that is? I mean, it's about brain chemistry...it's science. I would think men would be just as familiar with the rush of hormones that makes new relationships heady and exciting, and just as familiar with the effect when the hormones die down after that initial 1-2 year period.


We never figure that out because that's not what happens (usually) to us (at least as far as sex goes, no doubt we're just as guilty when it comes to other things).


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

boltam said:


> I do that all the time!
> 
> _(I hate the weird looks I get but so what, if they don't like it they can take another bus)_


I think that's the first post that actually got me laughing out loud and making a scene.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

UMP said:


> I think that's the whole struggle in keeping long term monogamous sex interesting. I have been at this for 24 years and it is my quest to somehow keep sex "new".
> 
> For example, I just got my "red velvet peek-a-boo love mask" in the mail from Amazon. I have never had my wife try this during sex in 24 years. Tonight will be the first time.
> Wish me luck!


I can tell you that my SO doesn't worry so much about keeping sex "new" as he does about continuing to make me feel like I am sexy and desirable, as well as lovable. He excels at both non-sexual affection and flirting/sexual affection, as well as being a generous lover. That is what keeps me revved up for sex as well as trying new things. It's all the stuff outside the bedroom that keeps me interested in him, and our sex life benefits as a side effect.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Buddy400 said:


> We never figure that out because that's not what happens (usually) to us (at least as far as sex goes, no doubt we're just as guilty when it comes to other things).


So maybe testosterone keeps that chemistry up for the sexual side for guys so they don't quite feel that drop off. But guys would feel that drop in other ways and it would manifest differently, like, for example, they no longer have those 4 hour long conversations where they are simply fascinated by every word she says. 

Is that kinda what you mean?


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

norajane said:


> So maybe testosterone keeps that chemistry up for the sexual side for guys so they don't quite feel that drop off. But guys would feel that drop in other ways and it would manifest differently, like, for example, they no longer have those 4 hour long conversations where they are simply fascinated by every word she says.
> 
> Is that kinda what you mean?


Yes, exactly.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

norajane said:


> Why do you think that is? I mean, it's about brain chemistry...it's science. I would think men would be just as familiar with the rush of hormones that makes new relationships heady and exciting, and just as familiar with the effect when the hormones die down after that initial 1-2 year period.


Not so much, the "die down" is from all the time to many times a day not once a day to once a month if you're lucky :wink2:


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

badsanta said:


> When I was little I used to eat push pops ice cream all the time, and it was a moment that I really looked forward to in my day when I was at school.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Are you saying he should put fruit on his junk?


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

> like, for example, they no longer have those 4 hour long conversations where they are simply fascinated by every word she says


Now, THAT may have been an act. 4 hours? Really?


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## hotshotdot (Jul 28, 2015)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Are you asking for oral as foreplay or oral as the only act? If you're wanting just a bj standalone- do you do that as well or is her oral part of foreplay/before sex? Does she O from penetration or just oral?
> 
> As someone who loves giving BJs but stopped enjoying it/doing it a lot some things that turned me off of them:
> 
> ...


^^^This!! 

Aside from hygiene (both cleanliness & shaving) the above is probably the biggest reason someone who once gave oral enthusiastically would stop.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

anonmd said:


> Now, THAT may have been an act. 4 hours? Really?


You've never stayed up all night just talking with your honey? Oh, man, there's nothing like falling in love, is there?


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

norajane said:


> You've never stayed up all night just talking with your honey? Oh, man, there's nothing like falling in love, is there?


Nope, sorry. I can go along with the second sentence but it hasn't involved 4 hour conversations. 

There is some considerable fascination with what she is saying, just not for 4 hours and I'd mark it down to learning new stuff from a new person I haven't heard before. 

Another difference between men and women, there is no hormonal brainwashing for us involved with birthing children.


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## D1C (Aug 29, 2015)

You may have gotten the ol bait and switch. Anything else change when she got the ring?


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Fozzy said:


> Are you saying he should put fruit on his junk?


 @Fozzy wait a minute... are YOU saying YOU have had sex with a push pop?


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

badsanta said:


> @Fozzy wait a minute... are YOU saying YOU have had sex with a push pop?


Well, I was desperate, and the push pop was a Sher Bet.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Thank you it was driving me bonkers, too!


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Instead of stand alone bj why not double oral sex? You give her and then she gives you. The advantage of her going first is that she will be aroused and she will show it while giving you a bj. I read that after most men orgasm, they come down from the high rapidly and lose interest. That is why she goes first. 

Have a verbal exchange with your wife. Communicate with her using "us". In your own way, start with an affirmation of your love and appreciation of her, tell her the ways she is special to you then segue into your sexual relationship - the good things first and that you want to make sure she is satisfied as much as you. Let her know that you want to try different things - first, you find that you like giving her oral before she gives and you want to do that from now on. 

She has given you frequent stand alone bj in the past and you should appreciate her, and return her generosity by relieving her of the expectation of unilateral gifts on demand - take it on faith that you are not entitled. Change your mindset about sex and make it about both of you - no more stand alone bj unless she offers, no more stand alone hj or quickies, if that what you do.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

intheory said:


> Please forgive me everyone; but I can't stand it any longer.
> 
> It's "wanes" not "wains"
> 
> ...


I am a horrible speller and awkward grammarian, it's annoying I sure. People know the differences in meaning usually but slip up when they write fast and don't proof carefully. Some time it's spellcheck slipping in words if letters are transposed. Thank you, I learned something.


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## icemans.insights (May 5, 2015)

Trust me. Not an issue. I'm a hygiene freak. Far more than she is.


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## icemans.insights (May 5, 2015)

intheory said:


> Have you kept up your hygiene? I'm guessing you have. But just to be sure; rub your hand around in your privates, then smell your hand right away. Anything "off" about the odor? Could you have jock itch, or something else going on with your genitals, healthwise.
> 
> Have you changed your behavior during oral? That is to say, have you started to thrust much more intensely? Do you now insist on entering her throat; where before her mouth was enough?
> 
> ...



Two things. I'm just asking a "general" question and looking for honest feedback. I know this isn't a unique issue for men. 

To answer your question. I've never in my life forced anything on her verbally or physically. Her "volunteerism" over the years has wained. It's that simple. I'm a hygiene freak. Even more so as I get older. 

I on the other hand give her long stretches of oral and I do it often because I like it and I know she likes it. 

My personal feeling is she's just too lazy to put out the effort. But I think the broader issue is that this is a systemic problem with women who get married, and 20 years later they don't feel that they have to do the "little extras."


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## icemans.insights (May 5, 2015)

Satya said:


> Oral is considered by some men to be the most intimate sexual act there is.
> 
> When did she stop giving? Recently?
> 
> You two having disagreements or issues in any other area? Refusal to give could indicate that she has lost some respect for you.


I'm really stunned by the answers I'm getting. 

Again, I was just asking a general question because I know this isn't a unique issue for men. The answers I'm seeing are reading a whole lot into the situation. 

I'm simply saying that over 20 years it's diminished more and more. It's not recent. And she hasn't stopped completely. 

I thought I said in my posting that I give it often and enjoy doing it so why am I seeing so many responses asking me that? I love doing that for her. I have no hangups in that area. But it's seldom ever returned and that's not how things were years ago.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

icemans.insights said:


> I'm really stunned by the answers I'm getting.
> 
> Again, I was just asking a general question because I know this isn't a unique issue for men. The answers I'm seeing are reading a whole lot into the situation.
> 
> ...


I'm not reading a whole lot, I'm testing a theory and asked a question. Process of elimination. 

I believe you're thinking about this like a man. The problem you have is with a woman. It's very rarely a simple answer as I think a lot of women on TAM may attest. How she feels about you is going to greatly affect how she TREATS you. Many women (obviously not all) internalize things in ways many men do not. 

So maybe over the 20 years, as happens with lots of couples, something else (not oral on her) has waned on your end. I'm asking you to consider and think about it. I'm not accusing you of anything. Sherlock Holmes compared the lack of data regarding a problem with attempting to craft bricks without clay. 

It could just be a very simple answer to your issue with her waning lack of enthusiasm and desire. If that's the case why ask a forum a question you know the answer to? Your answer would be, "it just happens with time." 

Beyond that explanation, I could assume any number of additional, more specific reasons, but they'd be pure guesses without knowledge from you or your wife. You could invite her here to share her side if you felt she'd be open to it. Maybe she wouldn't. I agree with in theory... Serious open talk will be needed between you and your wife.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Instead of stand alone bj why not double oral sex? You give her and then she gives you. The advantage of her going first is that she will be aroused and she will show it while giving you a bj. I read that after most men orgasm, they come down from the high rapidly and lose interest. That is why she goes first.


I 100% agree with you and your post, I'd just like to add that sometimes, some women would also like to go last and just be able to become a vegetable and lay there while their ears ring and the room spins and enjoy it. 
So switch it up every now and then or ask and see which one she prefers. :smile2:


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

icemans.insights said:


> I'm really stunned by the answers I'm getting.
> 
> Again, I was just asking a general question because I know this isn't a unique issue for men. The answers I'm seeing are reading a whole lot into the situation.
> 
> ...


Stand alone oral is different than oral as foreplay which is why you were asked which one you do and which one you are wanting. Don't use your oral as foreplay to show how you should get oral as a standalone.... it's not the same. 

Were you just looking for "that's women for ya, get a ring on and they stop sucking lmao" responses or reasons it may have slowed and things you can work on?


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## Threeblessings (Sep 23, 2015)

Well this sums up where we also went wrong. I have a fear of this and often felt forced. I think some men feel this is a completely entitled act but there are lots of other ways to enjoy each other. For me this is not it!!!! Truth is I find this disgusting and I don't know why. If a relationship depended on this one thing, it is not the relationship for me. The fear is real and if I ever meet someone else one day a relationship should not be dependent on this. I have had this fear ever since I found it what it meant at 18 years old.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

intheory said:


> Please forgive me everyone; but I can't stand it any longer.
> 
> It's "wanes" not "wains"
> 
> ...


*Just go ahead and refer to it as "getting one's water shut off!" Which, in and of itself, is an absolutely terrible occurrence!

In my mind's eye, a good loving, heart-palpating BJ on him or an episode of enthusiastic cunnilingus on her is simply a terrible thing to waste, whether it is done simply as foreplay, or even if it happens to be the main course!

Regardless, always make it a point to do oral straight from the heart in the name of love, and not just intentionally avoid it, all in the "convenient" name of fear!

After all, "fears" were made to overcome, and then to put aside!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Stand alone oral is different than oral as foreplay which is why you were asked which one you do and which one you are wanting. Don't use your oral as foreplay to show how you should get oral as a standalone.... it's not the same.
> 
> Were you just looking for "that's women for ya, get a ring on and they stop sucking lmao" responses or reasons it may have slowed and things you can work on?


:iagree: 
Oral sex for her is an act that is always followed by an orgasm for him. For most women, clitoral stimulation is the only way they can orgasm so it is not foreplay for her, its the main event. 

Oral sex for him is act that is rarely followed by an orgasm for her and adds sexual variety. I feel that women who are generous enough to give, should be appreciated. The sense of entitlement is the worse thing a man can do, unless his intention is to stop her from giving.

Disclosure: I don't give stand alone bj unless I am in the mood, it is too frustrating for me otherwise. We have oral sex - he gives to me and I give to him. We have fun, it's mutual, we both feel appreciated.


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## Caribvistors (Jan 13, 2013)

When I was dating my wife for over 4 years we enjoyed mutual oral sex nearly everyday. Even as teenagers I always made sure that she was completely satisfied and would hold her in my arms for whatever time needed to allow her the benefit of her "after glow", which was and still is very important for her. When she was ready then she would give me the most incredible oral sex any young man could desire. I often would tell her she had been given some special talent, when it came to stand alone bj. We use oral as a birth control method and didn't advance into intercourse until after getting formally engaged.

Over the first 10 years being married the stand alone bj significantly diminished. By the time we were married 20 years is very rarely ever would occur, no matter how often I would literally beg her for it. I vividly recall the last time she did it to completion, as it occurred on a Caribbean island vacation14 years ago. We have been going to that island for the past 18 years, so the tropical environment was not what motivated her that afternoon. Throughout our long marriage I always enthusiactly performed oral on her, as I love still seeing the effect on her and feel very pleased as a man, that I am able to provide that level of intimate pleasure.

She still frequently performs oral on me during foreplay, but never to completion. When asked there is never a real reason given by her as to why this denial. I do not believe that I have change how I respond when she takes me into her mouth and there are no hygiene issued between us. Other then this one personal "disappointment", we enjoy frequent, varied and satisfying sexual activity. Based upon problems that other couples have discussed on this forum, guess I am pretty lucky.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Caribvistors said:


> When I was dating my wife for over 4 years we enjoyed mutual oral sex nearly everyday. Even as teenagers I always made sure that she was completely satisfied and would hold her in my arms for whatever time needed to allow her the benefit of her "after glow", which was and still is very important for her. When she was ready then she would give me the most incredible oral sex any young man could desire. I often would tell her she had been given some special talent, when it came to stand alone bj. We use oral as a birth control method and didn't advance into intercourse until after getting formally engaged.
> 
> Over the first 10 years being married the stand alone bj significantly diminished. By the time we were married 20 years is very rarely ever would occur, no matter how often I would literally beg her for it. I vividly recall the last time she did it to completion, as it occurred on a Caribbean island vacation14 years ago. We have been going to that island for the past 18 years, so the tropical environment was not what motivated her that afternoon. Throughout our long marriage I always enthusiactly performed oral on her, as I love still seeing the effect on her and feel very pleased as a man, that I am able to provide that level of intimate pleasure.
> 
> She still frequently performs oral on me during foreplay, but never to completion. When asked there is never a real reason given by her as to why this denial. I do not believe that I have change how I respond when she takes me into her mouth and there are no hygiene issued between us. Other then this one personal "disappointment", we enjoy frequent, varied and satisfying sexual activity. Based upon problems that other couples have discussed on this forum, guess I am pretty lucky.


Are you saying that you give her oral sex to completion and then she will not give to you at the same session? When do you ask her about it and what do you say? What does she say exactly. 

I think giving her and then getting her to give you is the best way to have oral sex. If you give details maybe someone can help you come up with an effective way to approach the issue.


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## cosquin (Sep 16, 2014)

intheory said:


> Please forgive me everyone; but I can't stand it any longer.
> 
> It's "wanes" not "wains"
> 
> ...


Thanks for it. As English is not my first language, I looked up 'wain' in the translator. When I noticed it was just a kind of vehicule I realized something was wrong. Somehow I guessed the real meaning anyway 0


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> :iagree:
> Oral sex for her is an act that is always followed by an orgasm for him. For most women, clitoral stimulation is the only way they can orgasm so it is not foreplay for her, its the main event.
> 
> Oral sex for him is act that is rarely followed by an orgasm for her and adds sexual variety. I feel that women who are generous enough to give, should be appreciated. The sense of entitlement is the worse thing a man can do, unless his intention is to stop her from giving.
> ...


Yes! 
and when you look at the stats of how many married women are Oing every time they have sex, most of the time the orgasm numbers are in his favour already.

So asking for more- oral, anal, handjob, quickies- that involve only him getting off can quickly make her feel used, uncared for and like her needs don't matter. Quickest way to shut down her drive IMO


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> ... when you look at the stats of how many married women are Oing every time they have sex, most of the time the orgasm numbers are in his favour already.
> 
> So asking for more- oral, anal, handjob, quickies- that involve only him getting off can quickly make her feel used, uncared for and like her needs don't matter. Quickest way to shut down her drive IMO


It's not reasonable to count and compare. If that were the standard, I should be getting dozens of gratuitous blowjobs every week, because she normally has multiple orgasms for every one of mine. Gosh, I'm starting to feel used! (j/k)

Once you start comparing versus just trying to make your partner sexually happy and fulfilled in whatever ways you are okay doing, then it becomes contentious rather than loving.

How other relationship issues that develop over time affect intimacy is related, of course. Changes in sex are often signs of other problems, and you can't just treat the symptom - you have to find and treat the cause to be effective. Alas, some causes are incurable, and you have to perform triage or relationship euthanasia!


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Married but Happy said:


> It's not reasonable to count and compare. If that were the standard, I should be getting dozens of gratuitous blowjobs every week, because she normally has multiple orgasms for every one of mine. Gosh, I'm starting to feel used! (j/k)
> 
> Once you start comparing versus just trying to make your partner sexually happy and fulfilled in whatever ways you are okay doing, then it becomes contentious rather than loving.
> 
> How other relationship issues that develop over time affect intimacy is related, of course. Changes in sex are often signs of other problems, and you can't just treat the symptom - you have to find and treat the cause to be effective. Alas, some causes are incurable, and you have to perform triage or relationship euthanasia!


When things are relatively equal and mutual then there is not a problem. When they are not it is a HUGE problem. 
Orgasm equality only matters when one person starts to feel it does, if that makes any sense. 
It's like any other marital issue. If things are ok in an area you don't notice the give and take but if there is a feeling of inequality then you notice it more.

Ex. chores- if both people are generally equal and giving, a little extra here or there doesn't matter. If one person constantly does 75% to their partner's 25%... you notice and after a while it feels worse and worse so if they start asking you to do MORE chores, ya you don't feel so good about that. 

If a woman is already not getting equal treatment in sex and her partner is constantly asking for more for himself, it can really shut down a woman's drive and desire for sex or wanting to please her partner.


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## Caribvistors (Jan 13, 2013)

Catherine 602

In response to your above questions; I love giving oral to completion and my wife seems to thoroughly enjoys it. She usually can only achieve a "Big O" by oral or manual stimulation, rarely any longer thru intercourse. When I ask her (often) as to why she will not bring me to oral completion, knowing how much I used to enjoy it, there is never a plausible explanation, just evasive responses (ex. takes too long for you to release). This is very frustrating, as this is a woman who always appeared from the her very first time to enjoy giving and swallowing. The occurrences just started to taper off after we were married, to the point that it hasn't been done by her in about 12 years. but she will often start it during foreplay. A few times over the past 15 years she has actually brought up the idea on her own, it has always been in a semi public area, with the potential danger of discovery. As somewhat of a risk taker, she must enjoy the "rush" of possibly being seen, even though she denies that's the reason.

I would never consider withholding from providing her with oral stimulation in retribution for her not doing me, that's not who I am. There is too many other types of great sex going on between us to risk creating any intimate issues. This woman has no real inhibitions. 

Another poster raised the point of unequal balance in doing the routine household chores. Even though we both still work, that is not a problem for us, as I usually do most of it, laundry, vacuuming, dusting, dishes, etc. Often on weekends (time providing) will just take her car and have it washed and the tank filled, which saves her doing it. My wife has never been denied anything, nice home, has beautiful clothes, high end jewelry, new car every 3 years, vacation home, nice annual vacations to the Caribbean, Europe, etc., nails done every week and frequent visits to her hairdressers. Even during the many years when we didn't have much money and our kids were in private schools, then collage, she was always taken care of, within our financial limitations. She has always been a hard working, highly intelligent woman and has significantly contributed to our family success. I have never attempted to bribe my wife for a bj as a condition of agreeing to give her something she really wants. She is fully aware that type of negotiations goes on between other married couples.

My wife has even brought up the subject, more then once, about "the power of the bj" in conversations with her 2 married sisters, encouraging them to engage in it with their husbands, when these wives are complaining they are having difficulty getting "something" they really want. Obliviously these woman do not perform oral very often (no surprise), if at all, that this act can be so impressive on their husbands, it can be used as leverage.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Caribvistors said:


> Catherine 602
> 
> In response to your above questions; I love giving oral to completion and my wife seems to thoroughly enjoys it. She usually can only achieve a "Big O" by oral or manual stimulation, rarely any longer thru intercourse.


I think what she was asking about was if it is in the same session. So you give her oral to completion and then she gives you (or the other way around) 

Or are you giving her oral then having sex during one session and then asking for a standalone BJ at another time when she won't be getting an O.

Do you give her Os without getting one in the same session?

There was actually a poster here I remember reading who consistently gave his wife oral sex and after she was just done, no sex for him afterwards, no bj, not even a hj. He stopped enjoying giving as well. It's not just a woman thing. 

Try it for yourself. Give her standalone oral (meaning nothing for you after or before) as much as you would like to get it from her for say... a month. At first it's like it's not a big deal but the more you do it, it gets frustrating, not fun and soon enough it's a chore, it takes too long, it's selfish of her and you aren't feeling very giving anymore.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Married but Happy said:


> It's not reasonable to count and compare. If that were the standard, I should be getting dozens of gratuitous blowjobs every week, because she normally has multiple orgasms for every one of mine. Gosh, I'm starting to feel used! (j/k)
> 
> Once you start comparing versus just trying to make your partner sexually happy and fulfilled in whatever ways you are okay doing, then it becomes contentious rather than loving.
> 
> How other relationship issues that develop over time affect intimacy is related, of course. Changes in sex are often signs of other problems, and you can't just treat the symptom - you have to find and treat the cause to be effective. Alas, some causes are incurable, and you have to perform triage or relationship euthanasia!


But it is reasonable to count. What counts is mutual satisfaction. If having mutually satisfying sex is the goal then stand alone bj, hj and quickies would not be a large part of the couples sex life. 

I've read of men who felt cheated because their wives had multiple orgasm Vs their one but still were unwilling to give bj's in compensation. If the number of orgasms was used to determine sexual satisfaction, many men would come out behind. In fact, it would make more sense for men to give women stand-alone oral sex to close the orgasm gap. 

Mutual satisfactory sex should be used as the standard. There is no reason why a man can't have oral sex with his partner. In a mutual approach, he has oral sex with her.

I am sometimes amazed that bj continue under some circumstances. I've read post from men who get bj but complain that their wives won't swallow. They argue that it does not taste that bad or that their wife does love them. It shows how screwed up we are. These woman are willing to give but they are not even allowed to act upon one preference. 

Can I ask the OP why he thinks the bj wained? Besides what is wrong with his wife.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I think what she was asking about was if it is in the same session. So you give her oral to completion and then she gives you (or the other way around)
> 
> Or are you giving her oral then having sex during one session and then asking for a standalone BJ at another time when she won't be getting an O.
> 
> ...



Adding another issue that can causes problems in the oral sex arena: he gives her oral, she orgasms, and then she gives him oral or PIV for his orgasm and then they dirft off to sleep. Sounds fine, right? Except she _never _has the opportunity to have her orgasm and drift off to sleep; she _always _has to get going again. But the odds of giving him oral to completion and then having him continue on to give her oral are slim because he just wants to pass out after he orgasms. A lifetime of that can make a woman less interested in giving oral to completion.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

norajane said:


> Adding another issue that can causes problems in the oral sex arena: he gives her oral, she orgasms, and then she gives him oral or PIV for his orgasm and then they dirft off to sleep. Sounds fine, right? Except she _never _has the opportunity to have her orgasm and drift off to sleep; she _always _has to get going again. But the odds of giving him oral to completion and then having him continue on to give her oral are slim because he just wants to pass out after he orgasms. A lifetime of that can make a woman less interested in giving oral to completion.


ITA. While I'm by myself off in lala land enjoying my high, I'm just done, I want to lay there and drift off, feel myself relax and just sink into the bed. When I O with my H I miss that experience of drifting off and the relaxation afterwards because I have to get to work on him. Would be fine if it wasn't every single time. 

I think the best bet would be a good mix of her getting turns to go last and him getting turns to go last.


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## NoSizeQueen (Sep 9, 2015)

Caribvistors said:


> When I was dating my wife for over 4 years we enjoyed mutual oral sex nearly everyday.
> ...
> We use oral as a birth control method and didn't advance into intercourse until after getting formally engaged.
> 
> Over the first 10 years being married the stand alone bj significantly diminished.



You can't use the time you were using BJs as birth control as a measure of how much she enjoys giving. Of course she was enthusiastic... it was the only form of intercourse you guys had, and giving BJs is better than getting pregnant. Now she has even more enjoyable options.

I agree with what a lot of the ladies here say about the difference between her getting oral before sex and you wanting a BJ to completion. If you want more standalone oral, give some for a little while, and see if she gets with the program. Or maybe playfully tell her that you'll give her one right after she finishes you!


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

This question is too invasive to ask my friends so I will invade the privacy of people I don't know. 

How are stand alone bj done? Is there a lead up, affection, kissing holding or does the woman just get down to business? What happens afterwards? Suppose the women gets aroused, what do you do? 

When I do a stand alone bj, it's after trying to get turned on but I know after a while it ain't happening. So I just give him a bj. We hold each other for a while, then clean up.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> This question is too invasive to ask my friends so I will invade the privacy of people I don't know.
> 
> How are stand alone bj done? Is there a lead up, affection, kissing holding or does the woman just get down to business? What happens afterwards? Suppose the women gets aroused, what do you do?
> 
> When I do a stand alone bj, it's after trying to get turned on but I know after a while it ain't happening. So I just give him a bj. We hold each other for a while, then clean up.


The way it used to be for me was he would just ask outright for one. Then I would basically just get his pants down and get right to business. He doesn't like any lead up that doesn't directly involve his penis, like kissing or touching, so it'd be just the bj until he was done and then he'd say something like "thanks" and we'd go about our day. No affection, he won't (still) kiss my mouth afterwards. If I got aroused he wouldn't do anything for me so the quality went downhill first as I couldn't get too into it, then the quantity went down as I felt more and more used. 

When he stopped asking, expecting, I could do them when and if I want to which is usually only after I have gotten my own orgasm. He was also much better at holding me afterwards and showing affection and appreciation. 

But he asked for a BJ Monday morning before work- which is one of those get off and go about your day bjs. Really turned me off and on top of that we had already had a quickie session the day before that was just for him. I did it... regret it... should have turned him down because now I'm hating the thought of ever doing it again and don't want to.

Edit- FTR I was giving standalone bjs daily for over a year. I used to love it, I was good at it. The first time H "asked" me to marry him was after his first bj from me. He told me it was the only words he had at the time, "marry me" LOL. I hate that it got so ruined, taken for granted, used, not reciprocated, and I don't know if I'd ever be able to get my desire to do it back.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Is there some reason why you give so much? My motto is give as much as you get. It os not tit for tat it's making sure that you are not taken for granted or used. It helps your partner learn to be generous and loving and it helps you to respect yourself. I don't know your story so I may be wrong. 

I would do a reboot on your sex life. You are in a service rut and you have forgotten who you are. Stop having sex temporarily and sit and talk with him about mutually satisfying sex and how you want that from now on. No stand alone bj and quickies at this time. If he is resistant, wait till he is ready. 

When you are both in the rhythm of making love and you providing a service, you can revisit bj's. They need to be in the context of oral sex for you. Tell him you want stand alone oral sex too. I don't do quickies so I don't understand them. Woman get zero out of them except frustration so why do they do it?? Why can't the man masturbate without a vj.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Catherine- I had stopped pretty much all of it for quite a while, we were trying to do a reboot. It just slipped again recently.


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## Caribvistors (Jan 13, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCraz

The dynamics of our sexual activity has evolved considerably over they years. When we started out as teenagers and young adult there was frequent great mutual satisfaction during intercourse and occasionally oral sex. Sometimes didn't always cum, for various reasons, but she made sure that I did. As time passed the frequency of her giving oral to completion dropped off until it finally stopped, while we both continued to enjoy varied scenarios that lead to intercourse at least twice, sometimes more a week.

For the past 5-6 years I try, based upon life circumstances, to make sure my wife either thru oral and manual stimulation enjoys 2 and sometimes more "Big Os" a week. But as she aged she has become very sensitive in the vaginal area after cumin and even though she used to attempt to hide it, to engage in intercourse proved to be painful. There is now no expectation on either of us of her reciprocating, at least until a day or so later. Now take 2 days when she has an organism, another 2 days to "recover", that leaves maybe only 3 days of opportunity for me. Sometimes other life issues interfere and I will have to go longer then a week, even 10 days before allowed (another change in dynamics) release. The fact that I go quite some time without cumin, doesn't diminish my desire to try to physically please my wife, as often as she wants. The only real frustration for me is, no matter how much I try to keep her satisfied, there is never any oral to completion, everything else, yes. Guess it is just another adjustment that we have made to meet each others needs.

Hopefully the above answers your question. Appreciate any advise or comments you might have.

Catherine 602

My wife was never reluctant to swallow, something she did her first time doing oral, without the need for any encouragement from me. It just seemed so natural.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Cari I want to make sure I understand what is happening with you and your wife sexually. Are you saying that you please her sexually but she does nothing to please you? You give her oral, she orgasms and then what?


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I'm also confused but if you are saying that after she Os she is not able to have vaginal sex after so you go without during that time then I agree that oral for you after should be on the table. 

Another option would be PIV sex first and then give her an oral or manual O afterwards, that way her vagina is not too sensitive.


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## Caribvistors (Jan 13, 2013)

Her "time" is usually upon waking up in the ,morning and starts with me manually stimulating her, there often goes onto oral. I would have no problem with full intercourse then me giving her oral to organism, but it just never seems to go that way. 

She does please me, but not immediately after she organism, it is usually a day or so later. When she cums, she lies there being held by me and enjoying the glow for about a half hour, then we get up and start our day. There is always a short period where she will provide me with oral before we get up as a sign of appreciation


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I would try going from some manual stimulation to PIV sex when her body is ready and then you are done you then finish her up with oral. It would at least get you Oing in the same session for now. 

You can either talk to her about it beforehand or just give it a try (reassure her that she's still getting hers when you are done) and see how it goes. If she rejects that, I'd be wanting to know why.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

You're looking for lust. She was really into you and felt sexy and awesome and lustful for you while dating. 

Want to know the surefire way to squash that? Say "I do". You just went from lustful to "comfortable" and "predictable" with those two words... UNLESS you take very pro-active ways to prevent the change. You HAVE to keep at the top of your game. Look good. Be confident. Don't be available 100% of the time. You know... like you did when dating. 

Mix things up. Keep it interesting. If you are the best most sexy version of you possible and she is still a cold fish, then she's just not that into you no matter what, and you're in for years of a dead bedroom. 

And for people to say "Hey, she's just not that into THAT any more" is laughable, and you know it. If a woman is really into you, she will leave NO doubt. Ask the bazillions of guys who were in dead bedroom situations with the coldest wife imaginable, only to find that she had an affair that included oral, anal, group sex, porn, strippers, etc. 

Find out what buttons you ain't pushin', and get to pushin'!


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Caribvistors said:


> Her "time" is usually upon waking up in the ,morning and starts with me manually stimulating her, there often goes onto oral. I would have no problem with full intercourse then me giving her oral to organism, but it just never seems to go that way.
> 
> She does please me, but not immediately after she organism, it is usually a day or so later. When she cums, she lies there being held by me and enjoying the glow for about a half hour, then we get up and start our day. There is always a short period where she will provide me with oral before we get up as a sign of appreciation


Ugg. Whatever floats your boat I guess.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Caribvistors said:


> Her "time" is usually upon waking up in the ,morning and starts with me manually stimulating her, there often goes onto oral. I would have no problem with full intercourse then me giving her oral to organism, but it just never seems to go that way.
> 
> She does please me, but not immediately after she organism, it is usually a day or so later. When she cums, she lies there being held by me and enjoying the glow for about a half hour, then we get up and start our day. There is always a short period where she will provide me with oral before we get up as a sign of appreciation


I think you need to stop having sex and rethink this. She can't have PIV at this point but you can still both fulfill each other and have orgasms. Think it out and then talk to your wife. . 

Let her know that you put a temporary halt on sex and you want to start fresh. You both want mutually satisfying sex. There is no reason that you should serve each other. When you have sex, you have it together. I think you should go first then she can. Slowly add variety to your sex life. 

Don't relent on the point of making sex mutual, otherwise you become a service provider and doormat. It sounds like you love your wife very much. But this one sided business is going to eat away at the love and your self-esteem.


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## Rosinwinter (Oct 29, 2015)

Hello, I'm sorry to hear what you are going through. My problems is a bit different than yours but in the same, how should i say it? Category?
Anyways... I'm 51 but as everyone says i look very young for my age. People would always think im on my mid 30s, & he's 58.
Im asian & newly married to an american man. We met in a dating site last year (we've been together for 11 months now & married 5 months, but a year in all since we started our relationship). when i arrived here, intimacy was no problem, we'll do it at least once a week. But i also noticed that he loves me to give him a bj & will ask for it with no reciprocation. Which dissapoints & frustrates me most of the time. I don't mind pleasuring my man, but isn't it selfish that he wants itbut ddon't return the favor. (He has ED by the way & has to take pills for a good intercourse) but i told him we can just do four play if he doesn't want to take the pill. Which he claims he gives him hangover, he has a bit of health issues & i understand that. But not reciprocate when he ask me to give him a bj? 
Thou we make love in between the asking for bjs? Unfortunately i still have high sexual drive, & i do understand he can't more than twice a month. Please tell me what to think & feel about this... Thank you :-/


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Maybe you should start your own thread if you want to discuss your specific situation?


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## Rosinwinter (Oct 29, 2015)

Yes sorry & thank you


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