# Enough!!!



## stop (Mar 18, 2015)

Maybe someone has been in this boat and can offer some suggestions. My wife and I have two children each, boy and girl on both sides. My two children are successful and responsible for the most part and one of my step-children is pretty responsible. All three have pretty good jobs that they've been at for quite a while. Then there is the other step-son.

This step-son, while having a good nature, is bleeding us dry and I just don't know how to stop it and keep the peace. For years this particular child had been coddled beyond the norm and bailed out each time he finds himself in some kind of trouble. We have a house that we acquired when my mother-in-law passed and the step-son has lived there for years paying rent. He lived there early on also to help take care of my aging mother-in-law and did a good job of that, however it seems as though after all the years since her passing people somehow believe he should be given financial breaks for all his helpfulness.

Eventually we had to collect rent if he stayed in the house and I made it clear that enough rent had to be paid to cover the expense of owning it and everyone was in agreement. Well, apparently everyone was in agreement as long as it suited them because the rent paid started becoming less and never on time. Eventually I found that my wife had been making deals behind my back to let him pay less rent and would let him skip payments and not make them up. All the while we were carrying a mortgage on the house that we took out to make improvements.

This situation has existed for quite some time and while the rent payments have gone up some and have been coming more steadily, it is still below what we need to keep the house. We are effectively losing about $500 per month when you do the math. He has since married and my take was that now his new wife could contribute to the rent since she no longer had to pay for the place she was living in and maybe we could start getting into the black on this house. The rent did go up, but not significantly and continues to be paid late or not all of it is paid.

My wife and I get into fights often about this situation because she wants to continue with the coddling of what is now a 37 year old man and I need to make the financial side of this work. She claims I hate the step-son because I want him to pay what he should be paying when he should be paying it. Long story short, I'm labeled the bad guy for expecting adult behavior from a 37 year old.

Let's add to this by saying that we made the offer for he and his new wife to buy the house, but I stood firm on not selling below market value. We're going to take a bath on the house as it is because the money hasn't been there to properly maintain it and it is my opinion that they should not be given a further financial break just because they are family. I might think differently if enough rent was paid on time all these years, but at this point that's my position and I'm sticking to it.

I personally don't believe they will be able to qualify for the mortgage. They certainly don't have the down payment necessary and again I'm not coming up with further funds to help them qualify. What her parents do to help I can't say, but at this point they're probably strapped because they dumped an obscene amount of money into the wedding (yes, money that could have gone toward a down payment... some people just don't get it).

Anyway, I could go on and on about the frustrating aspects of this situation, but in the end I know I'm going to be once again labeled the a demon for taking the position that I have.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

stop said:


> Let's add to this by saying that we made the offer for he and his new wife to buy the house, but I stood firm on not selling below market value.


It's not your call, it's your wife's call, it was her mother's house.

All you're out is the difference between what was paid in rent and what it cost to keep the house going since the mother passed.

So give the house away to them- or sell it to someone else at a good deal, anything over and above the few thousand bucks you laid out these past few years is pure profit.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

I agree it is your wife's call in terms of selling the house. If she wants to give away the house to the son, that is her right. Let them get a mortgage and deal with the bank. It will be one less thing building resentment. Listen I don't disagree that she is not helping a 37 yr. old man by bailing him out, but there is not much you can do.
What's more concerning is your wife using your joint money behind your back. Not cool. If the step-son manages to get a mortgage, I'd make crystal clear to your W, that marital funds will not be used to pay his mortgage. Good luck with that.


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## pb76no (Nov 1, 2012)

I disagree, it is not her call.

I've been there. Still there! So do what I say and not what I do. It really isn't about the step son, it's about how finances are handled between you and your wife. Are you both working? How are your own bills paid/finances shared?

If you're both working, income is pooled and expenses are shared, then part of the arrangement has to be that if she wants to continue supporting him, it comes out of her end not out of the pooled income.

That's not an option for me, so again, I don't have a solution that has worked. Holding the line is tough and each time I think we are making progress I learn about some back-room deal that I wasn't supposed to know about it.

You have to decide if the battle is worth it and that battle is with your wife. If she doesn't back you, it won't matter what you try. 

The best option would be to get rid of the house - sell, give it to them, whatever it takes so that it is not a constant drain on your finances. If you manage that, he'll still come to you or her to be bailed out, but that takes effort on his part and is not automatic whereas the house thing now is on autopilot neither your wife or step son have to make any effort to keep it going.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Your wife's mother's house, her son - make your wife ante up the difference if she wants to subsidize the parasite.


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## stop (Mar 18, 2015)

Let me add some things that might clear up some questions since now that I read it I didn't give as much info as I should have in my original post.

The house is in both mine and my wife's name as a condition of the mortgage we took out to make improvements. We are both equally responsible for the mortgage. Simplyl giving this house away is not an option and my original intent was to use the house as some income for my wife to springboard her into a rentals business of her own. This was all discussed and agreed to in the beginning.

We both work and contribute to a joint account. We don't argue over who makes what or who is spending what as long as it benefits us (her, I or both) in some way within our own lives and household.

Since the rental business thing has fallen through, things have shifted. So as not to go down the tubes financially we've agreed that since the house is costing us money we sell it and use the proceeds to pay off most of our debt and then sock some away for her retirement. We have also considering selling our own house and moving out of the blood sucking state of NY to shed a major portion of our tax burden.

I guess what I'm saying in all of this is that some of you may be right in that there's nothing much I can do other than grin and bear it. But, it enrages me to no end to see her struggle with the current job market when if things were done as I originally intended and that we agreed to she wouldn't even need to work if she didn't want. We would be completely debt free by now, living pretty comfortably, taking those vacations we always talk about AND still in possession of the house that we now have found ourselves having to sell to get out from under the mess that has been constructed.

It also enrages me that my step-son thinks nothing of spending money on crap and at the same time saying he doesn't have money for rent. Maybe I should just sit back and be satisfied that the house will eventually be sold because it has to be and watching what happens when the reality of paying rent to someone that will not allow minimal or late payments to hit him squarely in the hind end.

I vividly recall before this whole thing started me saying to myself to not get involved financially with family and I kick myself in the rear every day because this house is a constant reminder of my stupidity.


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## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

Your wife is enabling a man child. That's what happens when don't teach them to be responsible for themselves. He's a 37 year old sponge who can't pay his own rent.

I had children living at home and working. Every month they paid rent to prepare them for the REAL world. Your wife lives in la la land and needs to be told her actions are destructive. He will never learn to look after himself, if she continues. 

But, you already new this...SHE needs to wake up.


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## Mr.D.E.B.T. (Jul 19, 2012)

No matter what you try to do, you can't teach a grown man responsibility. He is what he is, and it is not your responsibility to teach him, nor should you feel guilty about it. Make sure your stance is clear. You are willing to help your stepson, but not at your own expense.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I have a somewhat similar situation with my own sister. Let me give you some advice you won't like: sell him the house, preferably for enough to pay the mortgage off but if necessary take some hit and get rid of it. I know you don't want to hear that but I'm telling you that you will be much better off in the long run.

Here's a little background: my sister is almost 35 and a complete deadbeat. Had 3 kids by two daddies that pay nothing, got kicked out of several apartments for not paying rent, and is generally a lazy bum who doesn't work very much. Had them on purpose to trap said daddies....tell me who purposely traps men that have nothing? Eventually moved in with my father while he was fighting lung cancer because he couldn't live by himself and I'm 2000 miles away; when she does work she works in the medical field and did a lot to help him out.

When he passed away he left his house to me and had us split the rest (there's another sister who he cut out, but that's a different story). He said my sisters had done so much mooching that he wanted to even things out a little after he died. She had been living there basically rent free and because the house was paid off I let her stay there for a little while to get on her feet because of what she'd done to help him.

Well she decided she was too depressed to work and quit her part time job, and moved her non-working boyfriend in. The two of them sat there and did absolutely NOTHING. Couldn't take care of the yard, did NOTHING. Had a little cash from my dad and blew through that. We started to get into fights over her moving out and every time she'd wine she was doing her best. Finally I sold it to an investor and she had to move.....I took half of the cash and helped her get another house with a mortgage payment similar to what she'd have to pay in rent.

Guess what? She made about 5 months worth and that's it. Boyfriend still lives there for free, doesn't work, and the two of them are constantly mooching. It never ends. I paid 10 months of payments for her and just got some money back from her taxes and I'm done. She contacts me when she wants money and that's it. I just got another panicked text because her March payment is due tomorrow and guess what? She doesn't have it because she's a laze pos who doesn't work. Her boyfriend still lives there with his bratty kid and magically never has any money, but apparently he's allowed to live for free.

Yet he seems to have money to get high and they have money to go to Taco Bell and buy cigarettes. She has money to throw her kids big birthday parties, and whatever else they decide is a priority. I have nothing against throwing your kid a birthday party, and my niece and nephews are great kids despite their pos mother, but she seems to find money for these things but not her mortgage. Did I mention she has a grown, able bodied man in the house that doesn't work and lays around getting high in front of her kids? Nice huh?


You know what though? My name isn't on that house, so whatever they wreck or don't pay for isn't my problem. I'm out, and if she loses it or wrecks it that's her problem. Don't ever let a pos bum live in a house that has YOUR name on it (especially one that you're related to), you're the one who's going to get screwed in the end. Extricate yourself from this now; just take the financial hit and get your name off. If he loses it that's his problem. If my parents hadn't enabled my pos sister she wouldn't be in this position.

Sorry for the partial threadjack, just wanted to show you that I get where you're coming from, thus my advice.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Personally, I wouldn't put up with a wife who puts her grown son's needs ahead of my own. I would tell her I'm scheduling marriage counseling and I expect her to come. And once we get there, I would explain that her doing this is a major Love Buster and it's causing me to lose my love for her, and that we need to find a solution or I probably won't stay married. Then see what she and the counselor come up with.


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## stop (Mar 18, 2015)

turnera said:


> Personally, I wouldn't put up with a wife who puts her grown son's needs ahead of my own. I would tell her I'm scheduling marriage counseling and I expect her to come. And once we get there, I would explain that her doing this is a major Love Buster and it's causing me to lose my love for her, and that we need to find a solution or I probably won't stay married. Then see what she and the counselor come up with.


It's funny you should mention this, as this is very nearly what I was thinking the other day. I find it very hard to believe someone can stand there and tell you they love you and then let a situation come about that puts you in this kind of position.

I was married to a complete POS before that got me into a financial mess because I trusted her. I was away often with military deployments and eventually found that she was humping everything that moved, spending the rent money on drugs and other assorted things not to our benefit. Checks I found were bouncing all over the place and that in and of itself took me months to straighten out. She ruined my credibility with my bank and I was once questioned endlessly by military and local police about my possible involvement in some drug stuff she was mixed up in with her coworkers. I wasn't involved, but that 'incident' followed me for a while to other assignments. I also ended up in bankruptcy. All of this took me quite a number of years to crawl out of, but I eventually built my credit and good name back up.

I met and eventually married my current wife. Her kids at the time were young and what was to come wasn't evident. It wasn't until my step-son was in his late teens and early twenties did I start seeing signs of trouble. His dad pretty much cut him off because after paying for a year of college the kid ended up going to maybe 20% of his classes the entire year. The dad was labeled an azzhole, but I had no issue with what he did. There are other reasons I think he's an azzhole that contributes to the reasons my wife divorced him, but that's another story.

For the longest time I've been telling my wife that she is doing her son no favors whatsoever by coddling him. He works hard, but he's been in the same dead end job for years. He's had better jobs, but he keeps coming back to what he's doing now because he enjoys it. The problem is he may enjoy it, but he's not that good at it. I won't go into details, but it's of a mechanical nature and he's just doesn't have the knack for it, yet he has my wife believing he's the greatest thing to come down the pike in his job. I know better.

Since she was a dance teacher I've tried to use the same examples she's used when describing students. What would drive her nuts is parents that pushed and pushed their kids to learn ballet or tap or whatever when she knew these kids were never going to be great dancers. They knew enough to impress the clueless, but they would never have what it takes to be professional dancers. Yet, their parents were continue to praise them and press them to continue when that time would have been better spent honing something they could be great at doing. She would even have the heart to heart with parents occasionally telling them exactly this sort of thing, but when it comes to her son it's like everything she knows about teaching a skill and turning that skill into a profession goes out the window. With my kids, I pushed and encouraged them to work on the things they were good at and told them that the things they weren't so good at they could pursue as maybe hobbies or whatever, but not to rely on those to make a good living. They are both doing what they like to do and are making good livings. They didn't waste a lot of time on the things they weren't good at, but still dabble in them because they enjoy them. This is what should have happened with my step-son, but my advice as consistently fallen on deaf ears.

Back to the marriage counseling thing, I started seriously thinking of contacting a counselor for an initial meeting to discuss my thoughts and feelings and then bringing her into it, if for nothing else so that someone else is telling her what I've been trying to tell her. I've also considered a financial planner and attorney that can explain the financial and legal aspects of the situation so again, I'm not the only one in her mind saying what I've been trying to get through her head.

No matter how I approach it, I'm pretty much set on having to talk to a good tax accountant to understand the tax ramifications of anything I might want to do. There are tax implications involved and simply giving the house away is not as easy as one might think. Even selling it to him at less than market value has ramifications that have to be considered. In other words, I need to avoid any action that will further increase the financial burden I find myself with.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What you really need is to see a counselor yourself so that you gain the mental strength to stand up for yourself. Once you do that, it won't matter what she does because you'll know how to protect yourself finally. In the meantime, get the book No More Mr Nice Guy and start reading. You'll soon understand what we've been talking about.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> I have a somewhat similar situation with my own sister. Let me give you some advice you won't like: sell him the house, preferably for enough to pay the mortgage off but if necessary take some hit and get rid of it. I know you don't want to hear that but I'm telling you that you will be much better off in the long run.
> 
> Here's a little background: my sister is almost 35 and a complete deadbeat. Had 3 kids by two daddies that pay nothing, got kicked out of several apartments for not paying rent, and is generally a lazy bum who doesn't work very much. Had them on purpose to trap said daddies....tell me who purposely traps men that have nothing? Eventually moved in with my father while he was fighting lung cancer because he couldn't live by himself and I'm 2000 miles away; when she does work she works in the medical field and did a lot to help him out.
> 
> ...


Agree with all this. Also know that the assistance you provide becomes the norm (so one becomes an a-hole for ending it), and that such requests tend to increase in scope.

End it now and don't help in the future except with what you can afford without harming your own finances, and then only if you feel like it.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

Your step-son is already married and at 37 years of age. Are your step-son and his new bride employed? Sell the house and pay off the mortgage. Make them move to another place. They need to rent an apartment if that is all that they can afford. They should not be allowed to live in the manner that they cannot maintain.

Your wife will continue to enable your son-in-law. Your problems will continue. My mother did this with our youngest brother. Today, at his age of 50 years old, he continues on a lifestyle that he cannot afford. My parents are now deceased, so no bailing out for him. He and his wife already filed for bankruptcy twice. He borrowed money from me which he never repaid. I cut off any financial trough for him. Your son-in-law will continue to be a problem for you. Your wife will also be a problem for you.

Counseling will help you sort out your mind and your relationship with your wife. I don't think that you'd like to be bankrupt in retirement. It will be a tough choice for you to stay or go in your marriage. You know the answer: live with your circumstances or get out.


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