# Why do we R?



## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

OK, after making a decision to R with my WW, I've spent some time thinking why us BS find reconciliation an option. I have no fainest idea why I feel this is the right choice.

Rationally, there is very little (if any) motive to do that. You have been betrayed, disregarded and humiliated. You have no trust in your spouse. You doubt everything there was in the relationship before. You have no warranty that it would not repeat, and, since the best indicator of future behavior is past behavior, chances that it would are above the average. So, why?

Is that because we already invested so much into the family? The effort, raising children, down-payments for the mortgage? A sort of sunk cost fallacy?

The love for the person you though you knew? Misplaced sense of responsibility? Fear of being alone? Years of habit?

There is a number of people here who went through successful R. I would appreciate if you could articulate what moved you to that.


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## armywife0520 (Aug 29, 2011)

Great points. For me a big factor is my faith. But I do find myself thinkin why am I doing this many times a day especially when some days it seems like my husband couldn't care less either way. I too would love to hear some pointers for a successful reconciliation!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blindasabat (Nov 29, 2011)

I dont know honestly why take the long hard road vs easy end it with a D, but I was really surprised to find I still love my Wife despite what happened the hellacious sucker punch that will allways be there and I tried to kill that love
but it is still there. I'd like to know too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

I have asked myself the same question over and over again. I think you are partly right in all of your suggestions. Most of them play a part.

For me; I still love my wife whom I thought I knew quite well. We have a joint history of 26 years, So I still think we have a lot to build upon. Kids, the house, friends/network - everything is tied together.

This is where I think the fear of the unknown shows itself. Combined with lack of trust and low self esteem - you have a hard time convincing yourself that there is a future for you out there.

Add to that, what's your chance of meeting a new spouse who is absolutely free of any cheat-risk? Statistics says about 50% chance that you may bump into a ceater again. So maybe you're better off knowing the habits of you present spouse?

Just some thoughts that I have had myself.


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## FourtyPlus (Dec 18, 2011)

I'm a fWW and I'm approaching this from a different angle, of course. I believe R is not to pick up where you left off before the affair.

If past behavior is the best indicator for future behavior then the affair shouldn't have happened to begin with. At some point in time, the WW's past behavior was being in love, being loyal, being commited - obviously a false indicator for future behavior (cheating).

People change, they change all the time and some of these changes are influenced by our own behavior and treatment towards our spouses. It's not enough to analyze past behavior to determine future behavior, it's also important to analyze how our own behavior changes our spouses'.

Without minimalizing things, the WW spouse made mistakes. If the WW recognizes and reverses this behavior, why would R be questionable? The BS can follow up, keep tabs, verify until they feel secure enough to see and understand that the WW has indeed changed and the marriage is back on track.

And there are NO warranties in life, ever.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

FourtyPlus said:


> People change, they change all the time and some of these changes are influenced by our own behavior and treatment towards our spouses. It's not enough to analyze past behavior to determine future behavior, it's also important to analyze how our own behavior changes our spouses'.
> 
> Without minimalizing things, the WW spouse made mistakes. If the WW recognizes and reverses this behavior, why would R be questionable? The BS can follow up, keep tabs, verify until they feel secure enough to see and understand that the WW has indeed changed and the marriage is back on track.
> 
> And there are NO warranties in life, ever.


Wow, you make it sound easy... change yourself and know that there are no warranties - I already did that, but I still question if I am better off with my WW or not.

You may as well look at things from the opposite angle - invest yourself in your marrige and communicate to your spouse, when you are dissatisfied with something and feel the temptation to stray - no need for cheating - as easy as that. I guess not.

I think it's fair and natural to have some doubts in the process.


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## FourtyPlus (Dec 18, 2011)

It's absolutely natural to have doubts, no question!

I don't believe there should be a need for cheating as long as you are able to communicate your needs to a spouse that is willing to communicate as well. It's not always easy to do that though but if there's a will then there's a way. 

Both spouses have to want to R, both spouses have to want to create something better. There are also no warranties for the fWW. 

I don't know if my husband is going to cheat on me, I don't know if he will love me for the rest of my life even though that's what he promised. I can't nail him down on it, after all I promised to be faithful and I wasn't. I don't know if he will start drinking again, I don't think he will, I trust him but there's no guarantee.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Well first you have to acknowledge that there's a variety of "reconciliations." Some are "for the kids" others are out of comfort or fear of the unknown, others still out of just habit. Are these successful - well I guess that depends of your definition of success but for the question posted I'm assuming not really. 

I was the cheater, and while I hate to speak for my wife I'm pretty sure there's only one reason she chose to reconcile - love. She loves me enough to believe that I made a horrible mistake that I will never ever make again. She loves me enough to trust me with her heart and soul again. I love her enough to have learned from my screw up and to make sure that her trust and faith in me is not misplaced. 

I think love is the primary motivation behind a successful reconciliation, without it I think it's just going through the motions.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Tough Call on why R...

Six months after D-Day, I chose R. 30 years of marriage was definitely huge influence, but it all really came down to my wife's remorse, admission, and change. It was a personal decision to show mercy when she pleaded for it. 

As to guarantees... I except that there are none, lone ONE. She knows without doubt that Divorce will be pursued in earnest without discussion at the slightest sign another betrayal.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

I don't get it either, hurt and betrayal aside, I could NEVER get over the mental images of my wife having sex with another man and her coming home to me like nothing happened. The emotional attachment she also established to continue this relationship just makes me feel like a worthless piece of ****. I don't think I could ever love her or indeed be in love with her like I was before. 

Regarding the kids excuse, I grew up in an empty shell marriage, I knew when my parents stuck around just for us, I'd much rather they broke up. I know some spouses are more remorseful than others but it all depends on you in the end.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

I think this discussion should be split into post EA and post PA. The mind movies thing doesn't apply to me. If my W f*cked the OM, I would have dumped her and told the world what she did. Totally different set of reactions with EA and PA, in my opinion.


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## I'mAllIn (Oct 20, 2011)

For me the betrayal was neither a PA or really an EA, so when thinking about it I was left with the feeling that in relation to the other things that I could have had to deal with in the relationship, this was relatively minor. I didn't have the "grass is greener" mentality that if I left him and at some point found myself in a relationship with someone new that it would be all wine and roses. I spent a lot of time considering the positives and negatives, and his positives far outweighed his negatives. So I felt that IF he could articulate to me why this happened AND convince me that he was sorry and understood that I wouldn't accept it happening again then I could give him another chance. He did that very well, continues to do that any time I need him to, and has done all the hard work to get things back on track, so I feel good about giving R a chance. 
I guess really though it came down to that fact that I still loved him, he convinced me that he still loved and wanted to be with me, and that was enough for me.


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## FourtyPlus (Dec 18, 2011)

Complex, I think I would feel differently about it if mine would have been a PA. I know they say it doesn't make a difference, the betrayal is the same. However, with a PA and all the mental images attached to it, I think that is a lot harder to deal with. I also think I would feel much different about myself and whether or not I thought that was anything I could do to help my husband. I don't have the memory of having sex with another man or another man as much as touching me. My husband had these mental images because he didn't know if I did or not. A poly cleared that up.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

snap said:


> OK, after making a decision to R with my WW, I've spent some time thinking why us BS find reconciliation an option. I have no fainest idea why I feel this is the right choice.
> 
> Rationally, there is very little (if any) motive to do that. You have been betrayed, disregarded and humiliated. You have no trust in your spouse. You doubt everything there was in the relationship before. You have no warranty that it would not repeat, and, since the best indicator of future behavior is past behavior, chances that it would are above the average. So, why?
> 
> ...


These are the questions I have asked my husband quite often. As a WW, and in the process of a 9month R these are the questions I sometimes need to know. I don't want him staying with me for the kids, is it comfortable with me? is he afraid of the unknown? I ask him because of what I have done to him, the pain I have caused *tears*, the sh%t that we have had to undergo together that has been the toughest time in our entire 25 year relationship. 

We were able recover from having multiple misscarriages, we really came together during a difficult time. We sent our 15 year old son (at the time) to re-hab for drugs, we pulled together for that, we expereinced to 4 deaths, his parents, my grandmother and great aunt. We stuck together for that, and supported each other.

We ask ourselves how could we not stay together after all we have been through, and how we were able to surrive tough times, and WE did get through it, and loved each other always. Infidelity has all those beat hand down, but I think we can make it through this living hell as well. And with a lot of work so can many other people.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Complexity said:


> I don't get it either, hurt and betrayal aside, I could NEVER get over the mental images of my wife having sex with another man and her coming home to me like nothing happened. The emotional attachment she also established to continue this relationship just makes me feel like a worthless piece of ****. I don't think I could ever love her or indeed be in love with her like I was before.
> 
> Regarding the kids excuse, I grew up in an empty shell marriage, I knew when my parents stuck around just for us, I'd much rather they broke up. I know some spouses are more remorseful than others but it all depends on you in the end.


The mental images are a real killer for my husband, even after all these months, it has only diminshed slightly. Sometimes I think he's ok, and is angry because I chose to emotionally attach to someone else, and just disregard him like yesterday's trash. Then he triggers, and he can't stop himself, can't stop the mental images, can't stop himself from lashing out and wanting it all to go away. He says he just wants the mind movies to just be a horrible nightmare, but then he looks at me and knows it's all true. I can hold him, tell him that I'm sorry for what I've done, but it doesn't change the fact that I have caused my husband to be a different person for the rest of his life.

Btw, we just had the toughest week ever, he triggered all week, and so intensly he thought of leaving. Yeah it's f*cking tough.


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## allthegoodnamesaregone (Nov 18, 2011)

In my case it's the thought that somewhere within that alien being, the girl who looked me with such love 24 years ago still exists. 

Sadly though in my case R is not likely, she now acts like "I" never even happened, like a dream sequence in a movie. I've never seen such a surgical cutting away of emotions in my life, truly frightening


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

working and forty: it's a mixture of sever humiliation, revulsion and intense anger (something indescribable) knowing and picturing some piece of **** had his hands all over your woman and made her moan. At this time you wouldn't believe how much hatred you have for this man, how you constantly picture him with this smirk on his face.

That's something that constantly triggers any time something is going good, any time you want to be intimate you just step out of your body and you just see that slime ball on your woman. Without getting too graphic, knowing his thing was there............ It's incredibly emasculating. 

I think you're very brave working together for owning up and making amends but your husband has a very hard road to go along, if you were a dude you'd understand why the sex issue is much, much harder to deal with than the emotional stuff. 

Hope you two make it.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Complexity said:


> working and forty: it's a mixture of sever humiliation, revulsion and intense anger (something indescribable) knowing and picturing some piece of **** had his hands all over your woman and made her moan. At this time you wouldn't believe how much hatred you have for this man, how you constantly picture him with this smirk on his face.
> 
> That's something that constantly triggers any time something is going good, any time you want to be intimate you just step out of your body and you just see that slime ball on your woman. Without getting too graphic, knowing his thing was there............ It's incredibly emasculating.
> 
> ...


My husband has more than hatred for OM, if he could get away with it, he'd probably want to kill him at times. He has this constant image in his head when he triggers. He goes over to OM's house, f*cks his wife (with her consent of course), ties OM up after he's squashed his nuts, and makes him watch, I could go on, but it's way to graphic. It disturbs me, and I cringe.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

working_together said:


> My husband has more than hatred for OM, if he could get away with it, he'd probably want to kill him at times. He has this constant image in his head when he triggers. He goes over to OM's house, f*cks his wife (with her consent of course), ties OM up after he's squashed his nuts, and makes him watch, I could go on, but it's way to graphic. It disturbs me, and I cringe.


Out of interest working, how did you manage to get over the emotional attachment to the OM?


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## FourtyPlus (Dec 18, 2011)

Complexity said:


> working and forty: it's a mixture of sever humiliation, revulsion and intense anger (something indescribable) knowing and picturing some piece of **** had his hands all over your woman and made her moan. At this time you wouldn't believe how much hatred you have for this man, how you constantly picture him with this smirk on his face.
> 
> That's something that constantly triggers any time something is going good, any time you want to be intimate you just step out of your body and you just see that slime ball on your woman. Without getting too graphic, knowing his thing was there............ It's incredibly emasculating.
> 
> ...


Complex, I can't imagine what this must feel like. I know a PA would have been the end of my marriage, I know that for sure. My husband would not have been able to get past that and I believe I would understand, it's the images you get, like you described.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Complexity said:


> Out of interest working, how did you manage to get over the emotional attachment to the OM?


It took a few months, it was tough, but I am completely over the attachment I had for him. He makes me pretty sick now when I realize he was a piece of trash, but again, I thought that of myself back then. I guess time helped, and once I was away from him long enough, I was able to see that he wasn't what I thought he was, it was all in my head, and what I wanted to see at the time. Not sure if it makes sense to you. It was a brief A. so it didn't take as long as it does for others.


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## DesperateHeart (Dec 20, 2011)

working_together said:


> It took a few months, it was tough, but I am completely over the attachment I had for him. He makes me pretty sick now when I realize he was a piece of trash, but again, I thought that of myself back then. I guess time helped, and once I was away from him long enough, I was able to see that he wasn't what I thought he was, it was all in my head, and what I wanted to see at the time. Not sure if it makes sense to you. It was a brief A. so it didn't take as long as it does for others.


Then how would someone get over their AP if that person is "not trash" but someone "decent" and even "cares" that it (yes IT) hurt BS and the kids??? 

I know it doesn't answer the question of why do we R, but I just had to ask working...

As for the why do we R, I too ask myself that. My H says its also because he loves me and "wants" to fall in love with me again. But I feel that for him it's still mostly because of the kids. With me, I'm still confused as to the why...


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## DanF (Sep 27, 2010)

To oversimplify, we are all human beings and one thing that humans are good at is making mistakes.
My wife and I also realized that we really do love each other, but but both of us let ourselves get complacent in the marriage. That made it easy to look for something better. We both realized that the grass isn't greener anywhere else, the grass at home needs work.


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## spudster (Jan 11, 2012)

> My husband has more than hatred for OM, if he could get away with it, he'd probably want to kill him at times. He has this constant image in his head when he triggers. He goes over to OM's house, f*cks his wife (with her consent of course), ties OM up after he's squashed his nuts, and makes him watch, I could go on, but it's way to graphic. It disturbs me, and I cringe.


I'm in the minority here in that I did not reconcile or even think about reconciling with my X-wife after I caught her at the motel with her lover. Funny, he was scared sh*tless that I was going to hurt him and dove in the bathroom and locked the door! When my wife got home a few hours later her clothes were in garbage bags and waiting for her on the front porch. She never stepped foot in that house again. 

For some strange reason I never had fantasies or thoughts about what the two of them did together, nor did I ever have a desire to kill the OM. But man some of the thoughts I had about what I wanted to do to her would freeze your blood. I scared myself sometimes.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

@Spudster

I think you got through it as well as you did - because you immediately chose what to do. You listened to your gut and made a man's decision. You didn't waffle, or debate or talk yourself into staying.

Instead you acted which made a clean mental break for you.


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## FourtyPlus (Dec 18, 2011)

*the grass isn't greener anywhere else, the grass at home needs work. *

Love that!


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

snap said:


> OK, after making a decision to R with my WW, I've spent some time thinking why us BS find reconciliation an option. I have no fainest idea why I feel this is the right choice.


R is an earnest attempt to salvage, despite the hurt, humiliation and damage. It requires conscious efforts from both. The point is the hardsips on the road make us feel that way!




snap said:


> Rationally, there is very little (if any) motive to do that. You have been betrayed, disregarded and humiliated. You have no trust in your spouse. You doubt everything there was in the relationship before. You have no warranty that it would not repeat, and, since the best indicator of future behavior is past behavior, chances that it would are above the average. So, why?


R starts on the premise that A will not repeat.



snap said:


> Is that because we already invested so much into the family? The effort, raising children, down-payments for the mortgage? A sort of sunk cost fallacy?
> 
> The love for the person you though you knew? Misplaced sense of responsibility? Fear of being alone? Years of habit?
> 
> There is a number of people here who went through successful R. I would appreciate if you could articulate what moved you to that.


If it is pain, lonliness, sadness - you are alone, dear. R is long drawn, I presume. Requires a lot of patience. Good lucks. Dont give up.


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## jen1020 (Dec 18, 2011)

Hi

I have recently reconciled with my WH.

I gave us another chance because I saw he was making a real effort to make things right. He gave up alcohol, which was part of a bigger problem and is going to counselling. We have two young children as well, so it is worth fighting for them.

If I ever get divorced, it will be because I know I had tried my best to make it work and there was no alternative.

I can tell you though that if he is unfaithful or calls me names again that will be the end of the road for me. No negotiation - nothing. No marriage is worth destroying your self esteem for.

Jen


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> @Spudster
> 
> I think you got through it as well as you did - because you immediately chose what to do. You listened to your gut and made a man's decision. You didn't waffle, or debate or talk yourself into staying.
> 
> Instead you acted which made a clean mental break for you.


I really get tired of this terminology. Being unwilling to forgive is not manly, or a ",man's decision". Being able to forgive is not sissy or unmanly either. To end the relationship without trying to fix it, is the easy way out. Some times it is the right thing to do, but it definitely is the easy way out. It is a whole hell of lot harder to stay and work on the relationship. It takes a lot more strength of character than just dumping it all. Oh how tempted I have been to do just that. I knew that my healing process would be easier and faster if I didn't have to look at his face all the time. Staying is the bravest thing I have ever done, and I have not lived a sheltered life.


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## FourtyPlus (Dec 18, 2011)

I remember shortly after Dday, hubby picked up my daugther from the school bus and I guess they must have been talking about what's going on in our marriage. My husband must have sounded like he thought it couldn't be fixed to which my daughter replied "Daddy, but you haven't even tried yet!" So he did and we are about 4 years past Dday now, getting better, slowly, but getting better.
This applies to my husband only, not to others: He did the manly thing, he did the brave thing: he swallowed his pride and he put his love for me and his family above his own pain, above his own hell and gave it a try. He's a hero, he's bigger and better than any other man in this world (I say this because he's mine!) - just for that: giving it a try despite everything else.


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## dymo (Jan 2, 2012)

AngryandUsed said:


> R starts on the premise that A will not repeat.


I don't think any R could realistically start on that premise. The trust at that point is totally gone. 

Ideally, R should start on the premise that if an A repeats, you walk.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

ShoopidyBoop said:


> I made an attempt because I love my wife.


That would probably be my answer too. It's just that the reasonable part of me sits there and shakes head at myself.

This all, frankly, is so frustrating, which pushed me to start the thread. I don't think this is relevant to one's manliness: it's pointless to brag on an anonymous forum, but I've been through life situations which resolved for me if I really have the balls.

I've been a rational person much of my life, maybe I just look for a reason where there really isn't any.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

dymo said:


> I don't think any R could realistically start on that premise. The trust at that point is totally gone.
> 
> Ideally, R should start on the premise that if an A repeats, you walk.


Aren't those basically the same thing, just stated from the two different sides??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DesperateHeart (Dec 20, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> Aren't those basically the same thing, just stated from the two different sides??
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I never thought of it that way... but you're right. It's basically the same thing. I guess most BS (if they're like me) just think about our premise. Of course, it took someone like you who started with the other premise and has the decency/courage/discipline/love/remorse (???) to carry it out to point this one out.


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## FourtyPlus (Dec 18, 2011)

To me, R started on the premise that A will not repeat. No problem there! Done!
To my husband though, R started on the premise that if A repeats, we're done. He hasn't said it but I know that's what's on his mind and it should be. If I cheat again, he'll leave. I don't want him to leave, therefore I will do whatever it takes to make sure A will not repeat.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

DesperateHeart said:


> Then how would someone get over their AP if that person is "not trash" but someone "decent" and even "cares" that it (yes IT) hurt BS and the kids???
> 
> I know it doesn't answer the question of why do we R, but I just had to ask working...
> 
> As for the why do we R, I too ask myself that. My H says its also because he loves me and "wants" to fall in love with me again. But I feel that for him it's still mostly because of the kids. With me, I'm still confused as to the why...


Good question.

Anyone is who would cheat on their spouse is not worth much, they really aren't decent are they? Anyone who sneaks out in the middle of the night while his wife is at home with the kids in order to get his rocks off is pretty much scum. yes, he appeared nice, kind hearted, but I was attracted to the attention he was giving me. The way they treat their spouse is a good indicator of their future relationships. People who cheat are flawed in some way, so relationships where both parties cheat would never work, both are messed up in some sort of way. Om was a pretty good manipulator, and was able to lure me into something I would never had done had I been happy with myself.

make sense?

I'm in a much better place now, and see things so much clearer. It's something I still struggle with. When I first R. I did not look at myself with disgust, this is something that has set in with time with the realization of the pain and destruction that it has caused my marriage.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Just over a month out from D-day. 
28 years of marriage.

Who really knows why we try R? When I was in combat a few years ago it was rough. Part of my job was to work with soldiers who lost their buddies and it was gut wrenching. After a squad or whatever size unit lost a soldier we had to get these guys ready to go back out on patrols normally within a day. Imagine watching your buddy dying beside you and within 24 hours you are back out on patrol, maybe on the same damn street. We sucked it up and moved on. The f****** world did not stop for us. There was no relief, no hot tub or pool to soak in, we were not allowed alcohol to ease the pain. We packed up the our dead buddy's belongings, walked by his empty bunk everyday. But, we never gave up, never. We continued to push ourselves to finish the mission knowing that maybe the next bullet or the next explosion might just be the one the kills one of us and it might have my number on it.

Combat changes you forever. And so does finding out the love of your life had a PA.

I am trying R but only because my WS has shown remorse, repentance, sorrow, etc. I am not sure it will work out but I will give it a try.

Maybe I am trying R because I have never had things easy. I worked hard in life, finished Grad school when I was told I would never make it to college. Who knows?

All I can say is D would be a hell of lot easier then doing R but I am giving R a damn good shot and I do not know exactly why.


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## MoMo (Jan 16, 2012)

After 10 years of cheating where I kept forgiving and an additional 2 years post divorce of "reconciling" (so you can call it 12 years of cheating) my ex hubby who still lives with me has failed to improve his poor behavior...........


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## lascarx (Dec 24, 2011)

For me, the incident is still not a month gone, and I am undecided on the subject of reconciling, but I've seen it this way so far:

There are the ones who do it for the kids, explains itself.

There are the ones who just can't bear being alone and/or whatever other consequences are involved, not even for the time it would take to clear their heads. Explains itself again. I assume that these marriages often end up going another run on the same sad track.

There are the ones who think it's ok because the waywards have finally gotten something out of their systems, as if indulging yourself were the road to riches. I get the feeling that most of these are repressed would-be swingers.

There are the ones who suddenly decide it's all about growing spiritually and making up for past deficits in the marriage. I tend to believe that people deliberately do what they want and understand it well enough the whole time, so thinking of the affair as a "wake-up call" seems phony to me. My guess is these couples are deathly afraid of uncertainty and are going back because it's less risk. They certainly may end up making the best choice for them, but out of cowardice and not courage. Since no one wants to admit that, they whitewash it and go see shrinks who help them bury the whitewashing with nice-talk, inspirational huckstering and pills. But I guess that all only matters to folks like me who see motivation as being as important as results, and I know that a lot of people don't, sort of like those who don't care about the circumstances under which the affair ends as long as it does. People have to call that one for themselves.

There are the betrayed ones who stay in because they apparently want to prove by hook or by crook that they are better material than the OM/OW. These seem to be the sort that do an awful lot of lording it over their returned waywards. Seems driven by insecurity to me, I can't imagine wanting to waste time with such, plus I don't want to be running a boot camp in my own home.

There are the ones who seem to want to prove to themselves that they can take it, which is fine, but is that really worth shackling yourself to someone unfaithful for? Better to let go and start living before it's too late, I think. Whether you can take it or not, is something you should already know about yourself.

So I can't see myself reconciling for any of those reasons. I can only put it to the question extraordinary. I'll see at my own pace if life isn't truly better without her and if it isn't, hopefully I will see an answer that is none of the above.



oaksthorne said:


> To end the relationship without trying to fix it, is the easy way out. Some times it is the right thing to do, but it definitely is the easy way out. It is a whole hell of lot harder to stay and work on the relationship. It takes a lot more strength of character than just dumping it all.


No it doesn't. Some things are irreparable, and your point of no return is wherever it happens to be. If your man were playing around with latex and ladies in groups, you might not be so charitable, while some other betrayed wife might still be willing to give it a shot. His transgression was simply of the sort that stretched but did not break your own moral tolerance.



FourtyPlus said:


> I remember shortly after Dday, hubby picked up my daugther from the school bus and I guess they must have been talking about what's going on in our marriage. My husband must have sounded like he thought it couldn't be fixed to which my daughter replied "Daddy, but you haven't even tried yet!" So he did and we are about 4 years past Dday now, getting better, slowly, but getting better.
> This applies to my husband only, not to others: He did the manly thing, he did the brave thing: he swallowed his pride and he put his love for me and his family above his own pain, above his own hell and gave it a try. He's a hero, he's bigger and better than any other man in this world (I say this because he's mine!) - just for that: giving it a try despite everything else.


Read above. There's no absolute to this. There is some borderline of behavior where, if you crossed it, you would not consider your husband either unmanly or cowardly for dumping you like a rutabaga full of weevils. Like the folks who say emotional affair is ok this once, but physical would have been a deal-breaker under any circumstances. They aren't cowardly compared to those who would be willing to give it a try after a physical affair. Their standards are just different.

You have judged and found yourself wanting, but not too wanting, and you paint a portrait of your husband's heroism to bolster that. Understandable but still ultimately self-serving, like most of the ten-cent confessional pap waywards seem to like to serve up whenever they're feeling reflective. Doesn't mean I wish you failure, but I see your assignment of virtue as spurious.



ShoopidyBoop said:


> I made an attempt because I love my wife.


I can't imagine loving someone who doesn't love me. Again, since I view diminished-capacity-by-infatuation about on the same level as the Twinkie defense, I'm not inclined to believe that a betrayer can love the betrayed, and in fact, I'm pretty convinced that the whole mess shows that the betrayer never truly did.



ShoopidyBoop said:


> The whole idea behind love, romantic relationships, and marriage isn't rational at all.


Maybe emotions are not rational, but the institution is a product of thinking people, even if sociologists thirty generations in the future end up deriding monogamy as a primitive aberration. Breaking the compact unilaterally is the act of irrationality.



ShoopidyBoop said:


> If we were completely rational, we would use people in the same way that a psychopath would, while making sure that everybody benefits from this relationship.


I'm starting to think many people get married for reasons a psychopath could identify with. Most likely these are the ones who end up unfaithful.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Interesting post, lascarx. I know you are on the fence re R, and you explained your reasons contra, but what do you think could push you for it?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> To end the relationship without trying to fix it, is the easy way out. Some times it is the right thing to do, but it definitely is the easy way out. It is a whole hell of lot harder to stay and work on the relationship. It takes a lot more strength of character than just dumping it all.


i think this is utter bullsh!t. Just because it is harder does not give you a moral high ground. So much unwanted judgement in that post 



> Read above. There's no absolute to this. There is some borderline of behavior where, if you crossed it, you would not consider your husband either unmanly or cowardly for dumping you like a rutabaga full of weevils. Like the folks who say emotional affair is ok this once, but physical would have been a deal-breaker under any circumstances. They aren't cowardly compared to those who would be willing to give it a try after a physical affair. Their standards are just different.
> 
> You have judged and found yourself wanting, but not too wanting, and you paint a portrait of your husband's heroism to bolster that. Understandable but still ultimately self-serving, like most of the ten-cent confessional pap waywards seem to like to serve up whenever they're feeling reflective. Doesn't mean I wish you failure, but I see your assignment of virtue as spurious.


What i had i my mind but much more beautifully articulated.



> I'm not inclined to believe that a betrayer can love the betrayed, and in fact, I'm pretty convinced that the whole mess shows that the betrayer never truly did.


So much gold in here


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## spudster (Jan 11, 2012)

> To end the relationship without trying to fix it, is the easy way out. Some times it is the right thing to do, but it definitely is the easy way out. It is a whole hell of lot harder to stay and work on the relationship. It takes a lot more strength of character than just dumping it all.


In a perfect world, all things being equal, I would say you are correct. All I can say is in my case my willingness to want to R and work the relationship was trumpted by hearing my wifes sex-moans and the motel bed headboard smacking the wall as I approached the motel room. For me, at that moment in time, it was an easy and quick decision. It did not make me feel manly or masculine, it made me feel agony, heartbreak and betrayal. That feeling of betrayal stayed nailed to my soul all during the divorce and well past it. It wasn't until I met and married the wonderful woman I am with now that this feeling of helplessness subsided.


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## FourtyPlus (Dec 18, 2011)

Read above. There's no absolute to this. There is some borderline of behavior where, if you crossed it, you would not consider your husband either unmanly or cowardly for dumping you like a rutabaga full of weevils. Like the folks who say emotional affair is ok this once, but physical would have been a deal-breaker under any circumstances. They aren't cowardly compared to those who would be willing to give it a try after a physical affair. Their standards are just different.

You have judged and found yourself wanting, but not too wanting, and you paint a portrait of your husband's heroism to bolster that. Understandable but still ultimately self-serving, like most of the ten-cent confessional pap waywards seem to like to serve up whenever they're feeling reflective. Doesn't mean I wish you failure, but I see your assignment of virtue as spurious.

Whatever


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## Romeo_Holden (Sep 17, 2011)

I see where you are coming from portyplus but don't fool yourself he didn't put you or your family before his pride...been cheated on isn't just about pride walking away from his family and the woman he has been with for years would have required A LOT more courage than staying like he chose to...it's nice that you guys are trying to work at it but don't try and romanticize it, you don't know whether he would have been happier if he left and there is always the possibilty that a new woman could come along and offer him a fresh start heck i know men that left their marriages in their 70's...just food for thought. Remember his happiness.


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## lascarx (Dec 24, 2011)

snap said:


> Interesting post, lascarx. I know you are on the fence re R, and you explained your reasons contra, but what do you think could push you for it?


I have tried to think of one condition after the next. Sometimes I land on one that convinces me, but I always end up scrapping it.

I was right about the false face I married, but I'm finding that her true face is nothing to sneeze at. I don't know if she's capable of love though, no matter how much she goes on about it. I am still trying to visualize what life with her would be like.



warlock07 said:


> So much gold in here


I guess it's not anything you didn't already know. But what I've come to think lately, is that truth is neither absolute nor permanent. Never did may not necessarily mean never could. Bugs the heck out of me but I guess that's part of figuring it out.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

I would really like to hear some answers on this I love my spouse .

How is it that you can love someone---WHO TOOK ANOTHER PERSON IN PREFERANCE TO YOU, after they spoke sacred vows, and you all know what those vows say and mean.

How is it that you can love someone, who has committed, voluntarily, their own flesh and blood children to a lifetime of possible misery, split homes, and all that comes with cheating in a mge.

How are you able to HONESTLY, look at them again---knowing that they have chosen another in preferance to you.

How are you able to touch them, knowing that they allowed another in violation of sacred vows, but very willingly, to touch them, in places where only you are allowed to be.

How are you able to talk to them, knowing the things that their brain concocted, and the things that came out of their mouth's, were meant to make you into a POS, to treat you their supposed soulmate, to treat you as scum

How do you reconcile those things, when you say you love this person??????---I am really curious?????


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

jnj, "how can you" is not hard to answer at all. Love is irrational (I think we all can agree on this one), and people have different threshold for pain or disgust.

I agree there is absolutely no reason to love a person who betrayed you, yes. Is it helping, no.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

snap said:


> jnj, "how can you" is not hard to answer at all. Love is irrational (I think we all can agree on this one), and people have different threshold for pain or disgust.
> 
> I agree there is absolutely no reason to love a person who betrayed you, yes. Is it helping, no.


:iagree:
Love has it's own ways and manifests itself differently from individual to individual.

If I were to put a bit rational thinking into it; you may divorce and find yourself a new partner - what would be the odds that you will face betrayal again?


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## Unhappy2011 (Dec 28, 2011)

snap said:


> OK, after making a decision to R with my WW,


You people on this board with your acronyms.

What the hell does "R with my WW" mean ?


Hi I am a newbie!!!!


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Unhappy2011 said:


> You people on this board with your acronyms.
> 
> What the hell does "R with my WW" mean ?
> Hi I am a newbie!!!!


Reconcile with my Wayward Wife


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## Unhappy2011 (Dec 28, 2011)

Ahh....thanks!


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

To: jnj Exress How?

I wish I could give you an easy answer to How I am able to do it. Yes, all those things are true and those things you mention continue to be triggers long after the affair.

I can't explain it, my spouse did something to me that I would never do, the emotional pain, the mental anguish, the mental images and the questioning of what did I do to cause this come to you.

I think why I "R" is because of the way I was raised by my parents and with my faith that you work through a problem and you are suppose to be able to forgive. VERY DIFFICULT.

The big thing that I have noticed is that because of the betrayal I have changed. I am not as open anymore nor am I no longer described as I was for some many years a "Nice Guy". I am not mean but the better description as my Spouse has stated I have become more reserved and check people out now prior to allowing them into my confidence.

Looking back on the "R" today even though my Spouse has been a Good Wife and I do love her, I still question if I would have been better off to just not do the "R".


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## spudster (Jan 11, 2012)

> I would really like to hear some answers on this I love my spouse .
> 
> How is it that you can love someone---WHO TOOK ANOTHER PERSON IN PREFERANCE TO YOU, after they spoke sacred vows, and you all know what those vows say and mean.
> 
> ...



Because you choose to.

Love is not an emotion, it is a choice. Sometimes it is a choice you have to re-affirm daily.

I chose to love my ex-wife, to give her my love and trust, When I confirmed she was cheating on me, I chose to withdraw that love from her on that very day. I never waivered and never looked back. My willingness to love and give love is far too valuable a commodity for me to turn around and give it to a pig who will do nothing but devour it and give nothing back. 

Some people on this forum have chosen to trade their love for scraps off their spouse's table. 

To each his own.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

spudster, love is not something you can control like a sphincter on your ass. The degrees of affection are not colors that we can all agree by pointing finger on. Consider you might be mistaking your feelings for something else. Or you might be not.

Just be careful, it's too easy to get judgmental.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

rrrbbbttt, I don't mean to call you out and my apologies to the OP for the thread jack, but in other threads yesterday you were taking a very hard line against all cheaters. I'm not going to go back and quote but there was no quarter given by you to anyone who cheats. I knew from your post that your wife had cheated, but I'm rather surprised today to find that you reconciled. The vehemence of your post gave the absolute impression that there was no room in you for forgiveness of infidelity, yet you forgave your wife - otherwise you couldn't have reconciled. How? Why? I must ask is your wife the only cheater deserving of forgiveness? Or did you somehow manage to reconcile and not forgive your wife, I can't fathom that but maybe it's possible.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LuvMyH (Nov 11, 2009)

Sigma-
I think some of us forgive our spouses and reconcile, but still have those moments or days of internal anger that we don't want to direct at them. So, we come here and let off a little steam where others understand how we feel. I think that's why when some waywards post here, they become punching bags for BS'. It's a way of releasing tension for some. For others, it would just make them feel worse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> rrrbbbttt, I don't mean to call you out and my apologies to the OP for the thread jack, but in other threads yesterday you were taking a very hard line against all cheaters. I'm not going to go back and quote but there was no quarter given by you to anyone who cheats. I knew from your post that your wife had cheated, but I'm rather surprised today to find that you reconciled. The vehemence of your post gave the absolute impression that there was no room in you for forgiveness of infidelity, yet you forgave your wife - otherwise you couldn't have reconciled. How? Why? I must ask is your wife the only cheater deserving of forgiveness? Or did you somehow manage to reconcile and not forgive your wife, I can't fathom that but maybe it's possible.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

If you recall the thread, I did not give a R**S A** about counseling the OM or the OW who got the affair going with the WS. For all intents and purposes they preyed on the WS similar to Hyenas who Scavange off the kill of Lions.

The WS owns the indiscretion and is accountable to the Spouse they betrayed. They own it and I am sorry I have very little empathy for them because of the harm that they caused. Did I say that reconcilliation was never an option, No but the WS has to work at it to get it back. I also have some very stong religions beliefs. Believe me if my Spouse had not done a complete turn around it would have been over.

I have never looked at my Spouse the same way since that occured
So, if you are happy that I am continuing to have to deal with a situation that occured in the past and because I have very strong feelings about it Have a Good Day


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Now why on earth would I be happy about anybody having to deal with this? Really? I don't spend the time I do here because I like watching train wrecks - I spend it because I want to try to help people learn from my fail. 

Again, I agree with everything you said above as I did in the other thread yesterday. I just found the passion of your position incongruous with someone who has reconciled. It's been my experience here that most of the betrayed spouses who have reconciled are at least understanding of, if not maybe even a little respectful of, waywards who are truly remorseful, own what they did, and do the work to repair the marriage. Not that they condone or approve of the infidelity, but they can for the most part acknowledge the cheaters who put forth genuine efforts to fix what they screwed up. 

I'm not happy that you, your wife, or anyone else suffers this - or for that matter suffers anything else. Indeed, I wish you and your wife the best of luck in your continuing efforts to reconcile. It was said on a thread here in the last few days - maybe this one - that reconciliation is never really over - I agree.


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