# i want a second opinion



## regularguy (Apr 29, 2011)

This morning I was reading an article online related to my profession that included a quote by a senate committee chairman that showed that the congressman was either fear mongering for some ulterior motive or lacks enough understanding of the subject matter to be writing legislation on it. Pretty much the guy was comparing nationwide inconvenience that for technical reasons is about as likely than getting struck by lightning and winning the lottery in the same day to weapons of mass destruction (to display the level of nonsense from this man, the Russians built a 100,000 kiloton bomb, compared to the approximately 15 kiloton bomb used on Hiroshima. The Hiroshima bomb killed about 80,000 people from the explosion plus another 100,000+ from the radiation). I said out loud that this guy needs to be voted out of office. My wife asked why, so I explained it.

She commented that maybe it was a mistake and that I make mistakes too. I said, "it wasn't a mistake, he wrote an entire paper on it." She said I just want to throw away people. To be fair, I occasionally make comments about people being removed from positions when hearing of things that they have done that have large negative impacts their organization or the general public. She noticed I looked upset and asked about it. I responded that what she said hurt my feelings. She responded that she didn't understand why. I explained that I found the comment about throwing people away to be very critical of me personally. She responded: "Why its true?" I didn't know what to say at that point. She asked you have said things like this before and something about the how I talk about people that make mistakes. I said, "I have". She then said she didn't understand why I was upset about it. She said with a tone that sounded like she resented saying it: "I'm sorry you took it that way and that it hurt your feelings." She then kept talking about how not understanding why it upset me and that I was taking it the wrong way.

I left the room at this point because I felt like she was more concerned with being right about her comment than me being upset. She came in and talked to me about it and again mentioned that I have talked about firing people before. I responded: "you don't like it when I bring up things said in the past". Her response was that it was relevant to the conversation and that it was different. I responded "I probably thought that it was relevant at the time." She left the room. 

About 5 minutes later she said in response to something I said (I forget what it was) "If you don't like people saying things like that maybe you should change your behavior." 

Do you think its reasonable to feel like she cares more about being right or not wrong than my feelings? She did come and talk to me after I left, but I felt like it was just to continue to explain why I was wrong to feel the way I do. What I really want from her is to be heard and understood. I am not hard on people if they make mistakes. If she makes a mistake I don't even mention it to her. For example the other day (we weren't getting along then either) she emailed me at work about it and asked me if I could mail it during lunch (we live a lot closer to my job than hers) so it wouldn't be late. I did it and didn't say a word about it. If she gives me a sincere apology for something I thank her and give her a hug.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

It seems like there are really two concerns mixed in to one scenario. It hurt you that you felt broadly judged based upon a special situation, and you are hurt by a lack of willingness to let things go, and apologize, when sometimes this is the best solution for a situation. Maybe I'm wrong, but I can certainly understand. I'll admit also that in hindsight, I wished that I did better in this respect for my wife in the early years.

To give a similar situation, I can say that my wife and I never really talked about my relationship with my mother. My wife had so many desperate issues in our early years, that I just put this on the backburner. Sometimes, she would tell me that I was heartless, because I could just cut my mother out of my life. When I told her that this hurt, her answer was, "Why? The truth is the truth."

What she didn't now was that this was something I did to protect myself. My mother abandoned me on a curb in front of social services when I was seven. Eventually, she took me back. But everytime I screwed up in life, she would threaten to leave me. Did so a couple of times. Once, she told me not to talk to her when I was in the ninth grade. We lived together, but she would not even acknowledge my presence for nearly a year. There were alot more issues than that, so I kept our relationship pretty casual, while my wife was very close to her mother. I've supported my mother finacially for about 20 years.


I'll admit that I set a pretty bad example in the early years of our marriage when it comes to apologies. I tend to think of everything in context, so I was always very quick to just apologize. It kept us together in peace. Later, it began to bother me that she never apologized. Our marriage counselor helped us to see that this was mostly due to resentment over what she thought I was thinking at the time. So many of these assumptions were based on insecurities.

So, maybe it is possible that she is making some assumptions about your character, and maybe there are some resentment issues preventing her from meeting you half way. From my past, I can only say that it is better to focus on yourself. Try not to overcompensate in the apologies, and stay away from refusing to apologize just because she doesn't. Then, her problem stays her problem, and a good marriage counselor can point her to a better way to communicate.


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## regularguy (Apr 29, 2011)

We actually went to a marriage counselor at one point. I would be open to trying it again, but need some advice on finding a good one. I don't feel like my wife was very open about her past to the counselor and that really hurt its effectiveness. The counselor also didn't seem to really dig very much into the root of her problems nearly as much as he did mine and kept pushing this conflict resolution system. The system is great if you are trying to figure out which couch to buy, but useless for our type of conflict. His solution to teaching communication skills was simply telling us to stop name calling, interrupting, etc. Even when going through one of our arguments all he did was push the system and say don't do that to bad behavior. We don't fight about money, there has been no infidelity, sex is lacking but that is to be expected in a not so great marriage, and we don't fight about who does various things like pay bills, cleaning, etc.

I doubt she would admit it, and probably denies it to herself, but I really think deep down she thinks women are better than men. She blames her parents marital issues entirely on her father and says her mother was too good for him. I agree with her that her father did some bad things, but I have a hard time believing her mother didn't play a part. She has mentioned that she was more afraid of her mothers punishment than her fathers. Before we were married she would occasionally call me crying about a conflict with her mother. Her main complaint boiled down to how critical her mother was of her. My point is, from what I have been able to piece together, neither one of her parents were angels, but she views her mother positively and father negatively. She also frequently points out to me when a guy is flirty with her or a woman around her in a way that makes it seem wrong for a man to come on to a woman. We met online, but when we went on dates, she told me she found it cute when I would make advances towards her.

I don't refuse to apologize for bad behavior in an argument if she does the same. I feel like she thinks she is better than me or above me at times.


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## luckyman (Apr 14, 2011)

I think that her word choice could have been better. When she said "You just want to throw away people" well, that remark does carry a personal judgement that she thinks you are unforgiving and don't give people a chance. I don't know if you are like this, or even if that matters, but she could have used different words.

I identify a lot with your particular point of view here. When public officials abuse their office or use it to promote their own agenda that has little to do with what is best for the greatest number of people, or what is morally right, I feel they should be removed from office...ideally voted out. I'm sure there are many, many people here that disagree with me, and if they do I would hope that they would use different words than "you like to throw people away."

I would hope that if my wife disagreed with me politically that she would say "I disagree with you," and then explain why. In general, I think discussing politics is a touchy subject. I think some people think the topic is simply one of issues and voting trends, characteristics of voters, etc. and make comments accordingly, while others believe that their political views reflect their core values and are therefore very personal. Criticize this second group and whatever you say about their political belief will take on a more personal tone.

Maybe your wife feels she said nothing wrong...hopefully she will realize that what she said hurt you and will be more mindful about the words she uses. I would also hope that you show her the same respect.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

regularguy said:


> We actually went to a marriage counselor at one point. I would be open to trying it again, but need some advice on finding a good one. I don't feel like my wife was very open about her past to the counselor and that really hurt its effectiveness. The counselor also didn't seem to really dig very much into the root of her problems nearly as much as he did mine and kept pushing this conflict resolution system. The system is great if you are trying to figure out which couch to buy, but useless for our type of conflict. His solution to teaching communication skills was simply telling us to stop name calling, interrupting, etc. Even when going through one of our arguments all he did was push the system and say don't do that to bad behavior. We don't fight about money, there has been no infidelity, sex is lacking but that is to be expected in a not so great marriage, and we don't fight about who does various things like pay bills, cleaning, etc.
> 
> I doubt she would admit it, and probably denies it to herself, but I really think deep down she thinks women are better than men. She blames her parents marital issues entirely on her father and says her mother was too good for him. I agree with her that her father did some bad things, but I have a hard time believing her mother didn't play a part. She has mentioned that she was more afraid of her mothers punishment than her fathers. Before we were married she would occasionally call me crying about a conflict with her mother. Her main complaint boiled down to how critical her mother was of her. My point is, from what I have been able to piece together, neither one of her parents were angels, but she views her mother positively and father negatively. She also frequently points out to me when a guy is flirty with her or a woman around her in a way that makes it seem wrong for a man to come on to a woman. We met online, but when we went on dates, she told me she found it cute when I would make advances towards her.
> 
> I don't refuse to apologize for bad behavior in an argument if she does the same. I feel like she thinks she is better than me or above me at times.


My wife is bipolar, which is manageble, I know, but she went through long periods of avoidance, untreated. Still, the first few marriage counselors usually assume that the man is the root of all problems (maybe I'm jaded). There are good ones though. 

My daughter is a grad student in psychology, and was just telling me yesterday that she found it surprising that some experts say that the majority of people cannot easlily move beyond certain childhood bias, like your wife's view on her mother's innocence. To me, news like this helps to accept that you are dealing with something pretty common, and maybe challenge yourself to be the couple that does.

I'm not trying to be over simplistic. I'm only saying that with a wife that was bipolar, it was a deliberate act on my part to focus on the positive. You're possibly in a phase where the negatives seem like a blinding light. Give yourself a time goal where you will try to see the positive, and find a good counselor. One more good attempt, so to speak, before letting go.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

It sounds to me (just me), like she thinks that you're what we call in the Air Force - a one mistake Air Force kind of guy.

She "sees", whether true or not - that you react harshly to others mistakes and forget that we're all human and we ALL make mistakes - each and every single day - the difference being deliberately or unconsciously.

I make lots of mistakes, as do my children, etc. But my husband doesn't believe that people make mistakes or have accidents. He believes that everything we do has been thought about beforehand and with forethought and that we purposely do what we do, and that calling them mistakes are just excuses for behavior (weird - he apparently, based on what he's done, does not practice what he preaches).

Now I'm not saying that YOU are doing these things. But something you've done or said in the past repeatedly has led her to believe that you are unforgiving and harsh for those who make mistakes.

I think the same thing about my husband and he has made comments and/or written people off for their mistakes and this is why I think he's this type of person.

Just a thought...


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Shouldn't have engaged her beyond your statement. Once you did ... she had you, regardless of the course of the discussion.

But I also believe you are correct, she isn't concerned with being clear, she was focussed on 'winning'.

I also don't advocate stating: "What you just did hurt my feelings."

For the simple fact that stating such almost always just turns into a verbal vortex of back and forth crap. It is seldom an opener for communication ... when coming from a man.

She will be tempted to respond as your wife did ... with:
"Why?"
"What do you mean? I hurt your feelings, how?"
"I'm sorry you feel that way."

If you allow yourself to be pulled in by responses like those, you are a dead man.

None of those are lead-ins to open communication and validating your feelings. They are defensive and intended to minimize. And she did, quite well, which no doubt ticked you off more.

Think of it more this way ... your behavior annoys _her_, and she calls you on it. You state that her calling you on it, hurts your feelings ...

So guess how this equation gets solved?


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