# Female physical attributes



## TX-SC

The "size" post is interesting and it seems to me that women appear to be more picky than men when it comes to various attributes. Have any of the men here ever either broken up with, or refused to date, a woman because of a physical attribute other than weight or facial features (looks)? By this I mean how big or firm her breasts are, or how her vulva looks? In other words, have you ever seen a woman's vagina or breasts and said "nope, this is a one and done situation."

In my readings on here, most men are saying they think all vulva/breasts are awesome. Just kind of interested if these physical aspects actually are important to men in general?

I have had sex with only 20 women. I've made out with a few more. Of those, I've never been turned off by a woman's body. I have been with a couple that because of weight loss had less than firm breasts. I've been with a couple that were perhaps not my preference in how their vulva looked, but I never would consider dumping them or not dating them for that. I'm just wondering if men are really less picky than women in this regard?

You don't need to get specific in what your preferences are. I'm just wondering how many men here would or have broken up or not dated someone over their genitalia or breasts? I'm thinking that number would be fairly low, but I may be wrong.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

TX-SC said:


> The "size" post is interesting and it seems to me that women appear to be more picky than men when it comes to various attributes. Have any of the men here ever either broken up with, or refused to date, a woman because of a physical attribute other than weight or facial features (looks)? By this I mean how big or firm her breasts are, or how her vulva looks? In other words, have you ever seen a woman's vagina or breasts and said "nope, this is a one and done situation."
> 
> In my readings on here, most men are saying they think all vulva/breasts are awesome. Just kind of interested if these physical aspects actually are important to men in general?
> 
> I have had sex with only 20 women. I've made out with a few more. Of those, I've never been turned off by a woman's body. I have been with a couple that because of weight loss had less than firm breasts. I've been with a couple that were perhaps not my preference in how their vulva looked, but I never would consider dumping them or not dating them for that. I'm just wondering if men are really less picky than women in this regard?
> 
> You don't need to get specific in what your preferences are. I'm just wondering how many men here would or have broken up or not dated someone over their genitalia or breasts? I'm thinking that number would be fairly low, but I may be wrong.


Nope. Was never turned away by a breast or what's below. Face or excessive weight? Sure. But chest or crotch? I can't even imagine being turned away by such a thing.


----------



## katiecrna

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Nope. Was never turned away by a breast or what's below. Face or excessive weight? Sure. But chest or crotch? I can't even imagine being turned away by such a thing.




What about a flat chested women?


----------



## NextTimeAround

katiecrna said:


> What about a flat chested women?


I read on another message board a guy admitting that he had to come to terms with the fact that he liked breasts and that the woman he dated for a few months practically totally flat. He had to cut ties with her.


----------



## katiecrna

NextTimeAround said:


> I read on another message board a guy admitting that he had to come to terms with the fact that he liked breasts and that the woman he dated for a few months practically totally flat. He had to cut ties with her.




I think If your a butt guy, you would break up with someone who doesn't have a butt. If your a boob guy, you will break up with someone with no boobs. 
So I do think men care about a women's physical attributes more than the OP is letting on.


----------



## NextTimeAround

katiecrna said:


> I think If your a butt guy, you would break up with someone who doesn't have a butt. If your a boob guy, you will break up with someone with no boobs.
> So I do think men care about a women's physical attributes more than the OP is letting on.


I agree. and man can get an idea of what it might look like long before the first date. Most likely, the decision is made before they even get to hello.

I don't begrudge men for that . Everyone has their preferences. Just like the old preference for blondes.


----------



## oldshirt

Are you talking about having sex with a woman or about seriously dating or marrying her?


When it comes to sex, a woman has to smell bad and be filthy, morbidly obese or even downright disfigured or deformed to reject her sexually on physical attributes alone

(...and even if she is morbidly obese, disfigured or deformed, there are going to be a certain number of men that have a fetish for that particular disfigurement or deformity)

Men really do not reject women sexually if the women are not asking anything else from them. 

But now if you are talking about mate selection for marriage, that is an entirely different animal. 

A man's checklist for having NSA sex with a woman may be as short and being clean and hygienic and not being morbidly obese or deformed. 

But his checklist for who he marries and fathers children with will be much much longer. 

Most men really can't afford to be too picky on who they have NSA sex with as the average man doesn't typically have unlimited sexual options. 

Women on the other hand downright have to have a long laundry list of selection criteria on who they will and will not have sex with, otherwise they will have a line of 3.5 billion men standing in line outside their door. 

Even downright bad looking women still have unlimited options for NSA sex. 

It's when it comes to marriage and commitment etc that their options start to become limited.


----------



## katiecrna

oldshirt said:


> Are you talking about having sex with a woman or about seriously dating or marrying her?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When it comes to sex, a woman has to smell bad and be filthy, morbidly obese or even downright disfigured or deformed to reject her sexually on physical attributes alone
> 
> 
> 
> (...and even if she is morbidly obese, disfigured or deformed, there are going to be a certain number of men that have a fetish for that particular disfigurement or deformity)
> 
> 
> 
> Men really do not reject women sexually if the women are not asking anything else from them.
> 
> 
> 
> But now if you are talking about mate selection for marriage, that is an entirely different animal.
> 
> 
> 
> A man's checklist for having NSA sex with a woman may be as short and being clean and hygienic and not being morbidly obese or deformed.
> 
> 
> 
> But his checklist for who he marries and fathers children with will be much much longer.
> 
> 
> 
> Most men really can't afford to be too picky on who they have NSA sex with as the average man doesn't typically have unlimited sexual options.
> 
> 
> 
> Women on the other hand downright have to have a long laundry list of selection criteria on who they will and will not have sex with, otherwise they will have a line of 3.5 billion men standing in line outside their door.
> 
> 
> 
> Even downright bad looking women still have unlimited options for NSA sex.
> 
> 
> 
> It's when it comes to marriage and commitment etc that their options start to become limited.




I wish this were true.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

katiecrna said:


> What about a flat chested women?


I've not seen one so flat chested as to discourage me. I suppose there are women who have no breasts at all, and that probably wouldn't work. But even small ones are feminine. Small ones also tend to be perkier, and perky is attractive. 

There are always extremes which may cross an acceptable threshold. But I never encountered such a thing on somebody I would have otherwise been attracted to.


----------



## TX-SC

In asking this, I should qualify why I'm asking and what I'm asking. I think the perception that guys sit around talking to their buddies about sexual preferences is incorrect. I'm sure some do, but it never has been something I've seen, except by maybe teenagers. I know my predisposition, but I don't know about other men. The posts I have seen here lead me to believe that most guys are not turned off by variety. But, I could be wrong.

I'm mostly talking about traits that can't be changed without surgery. A person's butt can be modified by exercises and squats. Mostly I'm talking about breasts and vulvae.


----------



## katiecrna

What's up with vulva preference? I've never heard anyone talk about it.


----------



## Ynot

I would disagree with oldshirt to a degree. I have absolutely walked away from NSA sex with women I have found less that attractive. I do not like over weight women. I am not talking about morbidly obese, but just a large woman with little to no muscle tone. I am much more turned on by someone who gives a crap about how they look and allow themselves to become dumpy, pudgy or otherwise over way over weight. I do like some meat on a woman's bones. I am also turned off by skin and bones, also with no muscle tone. I am also turned off by women who spend all day at the gym and are buff to the point of having almost no body fat.
As for breasts, I am more into the nipple than I am the size of the breast. To me a nice responsive nipple that gets hard when touched is more appealing than a large breast. Floppy, saggy breasts whether large or small are a turn off as well.
Crotches? as long as they are clean, do not have a foul odor and are "landscaped" I have never had an issue. I am turned off by an unruly bush though.
Butts - I like a firm ass with some muscle tone. The glute is one of the major muscles of the body. If the glute is flabby or flat, to me, that is a sign that this woman just likes to sit around and gets little exercise.
Having said all that I also like a woman to be proportionate. Big breasts and skinny and bones is as much of a turn off as a big butt and flat chest combo. Finally I would add that fake anywhere is a turn off. I can understand when real cosmetic surgery is required such as after a mastectomy, but just for the purpose of enhancement, to me, is a sign of vanity and high maintenance and I am not interested.
And finally, although not mentioned here, I think that overly done up women with make up troweled on and who have to spend hours getting ready to go some place is also a turn off. I much prefer natural women who might do little more than accent their natural beauty over the high maintenance beauty queen any day of the week.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

TX-SC said:


> The posts I have seen here lead me to believe that most guys are not turned off by variety. But, I could be wrong.


Certainly true in my case



TX-SC said:


> I'm mostly talking about traits that can't be changed without surgery. A person's butt can be modified by exercises and squats. Mostly I'm talking about breasts and vulvae.


Isn't breast augmentation a fairly common surgery?


----------



## oldshirt

katiecrna said:


> I wish this were true.


What do you mean?


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Ynot said:


> And finally, although not mentioned here, I think that overly done up women with make up troweled on and who have to spend hours getting ready to go some place is also a turn off. I much prefer natural women who might do little more than accent their natural beauty over the high maintenance beauty queen any day of the week.


Agreed 100%. I didn't see that as relevant to this thread since that is not an inherent attribute. But it is definitely a turn off. Both because of the "high maintenance" aspect of it, and because I don't care to smell, caress, or kiss artificial substances.


----------



## uhtred

I find a wide range of women attractive. Some more than others but a smile and the right attitude makes more difference than most physical attributes. 

I do have physical preferences, but some women who are quite far from those ideals are still very attractive to me.

Signs of unhealthyness (extreme weight, high or low), is a turn off.


----------



## Haiku

TX-SC said:


> I'm mostly talking about traits that can't be changed without surgery. A person's butt can be modified by exercises and squats. Mostly I'm talking about breasts and vulvae.


I actually prefer women with smaller breasts. If I was drawn to a woman and she had large breasts, no big deal. If she was very large breasted, I'd probably not be drawn in the first place. 

My former wife was a petite woman with small breasts. She was pretty much a full time athlete and by the age of 40 her breasts lost volume and she was seriously troubled with a self esteem problem over her appearance. So she had an enhancement and she's now content. Personally I think she went slightly too large but she's still nicely proportional. I think most men say she looks very nice and natural. We divorced not long after that, but as far as I'm concerned it's unrelated. 

As for a woman's 👇, it's her body. I never gave the appearance of her 👇 any thought to tell the truth.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

uhtred said:


> I find a wide range of women attractive. Some more than others but* a smile and the right attitude *makes more difference than most physical attributes.
> 
> Hear, hear! -- and the amazing thing is _*anybody *_can do this
> 
> I do have physical preferences, but some women who are quite far from those ideals are still very attractive to me.
> 
> If I was to make a list of my basic physical preferences, and compare it to my wife, there wouldn't be much overlap. Yet she is the most amazingly stunningly beautiful creature I have ever laid eyes on.
> 
> Signs of unhealthyness (extreme weight, high or low), is a turn off.


----------



## TX-SC

katiecrna said:


> What's up with vulva preference? I've never heard anyone talk about it.


Technically, the vagina is the internal part of the sexual organ and the vulva includes the external parts (labia/lips, clitoris, etc.).


----------



## anonmd

katiecrna said:


> What's up with vulva preference? I've never heard anyone talk about it.


There is quite a variation. Never made much difference to me but I have heard women being concerned about it. 

As far as your flat chested Q goes, I'd not break up because of but she might not have passed the initial attraction stage to begin with...


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

I've heard men joking about "roast beef vulvas" (or vaginas actually cause they didn't know what was what)
I don't know if it would be a deal breaker issue for them but it was enough to complain about. 
You can google that for all kinds of examples of people talking about it. 

I watched a short documentary talking about how large labia became an issue once we started shaving (another deal breaker issue for some) cause now they can see all the bits and before they were hidden more. 
Forget the name of the show but labiaplasty is becoming a popular plastic surgery. 

My ex wanted to chop off my inner labia. With one of those exacto knifes (sp?) and some ice. 😐


----------



## Marc878

katiecrna said:


> What about a flat chested women?


I could care less about that. Id bet I'm in the majority too.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> My ex wanted to chop off my inner labia. With one of those exacto knifes (sp?) and some ice. 😐


Damn!!!

Glad he's your ex!


----------



## podiumboy

Not proud of it now, but I once broke up with a girl because I thought she was too... large. I was 19 (I'm 35 now, for reference point), she was 18. I met her once, when it was dark outside, she had on a coat/sweatshirt, etc. I was actually more interested in her friend, but the girl I ended up dating basically told the friend to back off, so I was hers. We exchanged info, talked online, set up a date night about a week later. Then I saw her in the daylight. She was... a little bit bigger than what I was used to. At that point, I had only been with one girl, sexually. She was my HS girlfriend, we dated for about 1.5 years, and she was very tall and skinny. Looking back, this girl wasn't really that big. Plus, now I definitely appreciate a woman with more curves. But I was 19 and kinda stupid. 

Sexually, she was incredible. Girls at my high school, including my ex/gf, were notoriously chaste. Guys often preferred to outsource to other neighboring schools for girls. This was the first girl I dated that wasn't from my hometown. I couldn't believe the things she was willing to do after only knowing each other for such a short amount of time. I wasted so much effort trying to get with girls in HS, and with this girl all I had to do to get into her pants was take her to Applebees! I didn't really know what to think! We dated for a couple months, and my friends all made fun of me for dating a bigger girl. I eventually broke up with her. At the time, I tried to justify the breakup in all sorts of ways. But now that I'm older and wiser, I know exactly why I broke up with her... and I'm ashamed for it. She was nice, fun, crazy about me, and she basically opened my eyes to the fact that girls could be sexual too. We're still friends on FB, and from what I can tell her life turned out really well, and she seems to have lost a lot of weight. That makes me happy.


----------



## arbitrator

*The "Arbitrator Test" starts with the fact that my woman must be rather easy on the eyes, stays physically active, with no sign of frumpiness! 

Then there's the all important personality and intelligence test! If she shows any sign of being an academic dumba$$, or can't logically converse, then I'm going to have problems! Same goes for a woman who is either bipolar or has a nasty, controlling disposition!

If she's stoic and afraid of sexual or emotional contact, then that's another deal breaker!

She should be quite clean about her body, as am I! And very open sexually, who fastidiously has no problem in grooming her body, more especially for activities in the bedroom. 

Let's just say that I really don't care for the presence of coarse hair in either her lower or upper domains as I don't really want to get involved in distractive flossing while being in the midst of performing loving oral sex on her!*


----------



## katiecrna

arbitrator said:


> *The "Arbitrator Test" starts with the fact that my woman must be rather easy on the eyes, stays physically active, with no sign of frumpiness!
> 
> *



Please list what you consider frumpiness.


----------



## arbitrator

katiecrna said:


> Please list what you consider frumpiness.


*A devout "couch potato" who doesn't show the least regard for their size or their weight, often wearing oversized clothes to mask those demeaning attributes!*


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

I typically don't get all done up on a first date. Average amount. How I would be for any outing to the coffee shop. That way they can see me at my norm and not my best. Cause best isn't coming out that often. I just don't have time for that. I'll surprise you with a few times here and there but you're getting my base normal most often. 
That means casual fitted clothes, no heels, average make up. 
Like, I care enough to not wear pjs but not too much. Cause that's really where I am in life right now. 

I think people should go for what they like and be who they are. It's ok to say something isn't your type, even if it's their vagina or boobs. 

I don't think I'd want someone to say "I'm sorry but your vulva just isn't my type" a simple "we aren't compatible" will do.


----------



## ConanHub

My number is close to 60 and there are no physical characteristics that I would have stopped seeing them over.

I'm far more interested in integrity, humor, raw sexuality, willingness to have fun, personality, cleanliness and decent health.

I don't care what their kitty looks like as long as it is well kept and healthy, I'm diving in.
Breasts that are well kept and cared for are wonderful regardless of size, there are definitely some very pretty tatas out there but I've always appreciated and felt honored to partake of every woman that has shared her body with me.
I am a leg and butt man. So hard truth here... I have definitely kept more than one woman in the friend zone that had very flat or box shaped rears and legs that had no real definition or shape.


I am absolutely in love with the female design and as long as she has a feminine shape, I'm loving it!

Mrs. Conan has always had a great ass and shapely legs. Still makes me want to ravage her on the spot!😈😁


----------



## Livvie

ConanHub said:


> My number is close to 60 and there are no physical characteristics that I would have stopped seeing them over.
> 
> I'm far more interested in integrity, humor, raw sexuality, willingness to have fun, personality, cleanliness and decent health.
> 
> I don't care what their kitty looks like as long as it is well kept and healthy, I'm diving in.
> Breasts that are well kept and cared for are wonderful regardless of size, there are definitely some very pretty tatas out there but I've always appreciated and felt honored to partake of every woman that has shared her body with me.
> I am a leg and butt man. So hard truth here... I have definitely kept more than one woman in the friend zone that had very flat or box shaped rears and legs that had no real definition or shape.
> 
> 
> I am absolutely in love with the female design and as long as she has a feminine shape, I'm loving it!
> 
> Mrs. Conan has always had a great ass and shapely legs. Still makes me want to ravage her on the spot!😈😁


You said "breasts that are well kept and cared for". Hmmm. I'm having a hard time figuring that out. I wash mine in the shower like my other body parts, but that's it, ever. It's not like that need be to be shaved or anything. What can you do with them to make them well kept??????


----------



## TX-SC

Livvie said:


> You said "breasts that are well kept and cared for". Hmmm. I'm having a hard time figuring that out. I wash mine in the shower like my other body parts, but that's it, ever. It's not like that need be to be shaved or anything. What can you do with them to make them well kept??????


I have dated girls who needed to trim their nipple hair occassionally. It's not uncommon.


----------



## ConanHub

oldshirt said:


> Are you talking about having sex with a woman or about seriously dating or marrying her?
> 
> 
> When it comes to sex, a woman has to smell bad and be filthy, morbidly obese or even downright disfigured or deformed to reject her sexually on physical attributes alone
> 
> (...and even if she is morbidly obese, disfigured or deformed, there are going to be a certain number of men that have a fetish for that particular disfigurement or deformity)
> 
> Men really do not reject women sexually if the women are not asking anything else from them.
> 
> But now if you are talking about mate selection for marriage, that is an entirely different animal.
> 
> A man's checklist for having NSA sex with a woman may be as short and being clean and hygienic and not being morbidly obese or deformed.
> 
> But his checklist for who he marries and fathers children with will be much much longer.
> 
> Most men really can't afford to be too picky on who they have NSA sex with as the average man doesn't typically have unlimited sexual options.
> 
> Women on the other hand downright have to have a long laundry list of selection criteria on who they will and will not have sex with, otherwise they will have a line of 3.5 billion men standing in line outside their door.
> 
> Even downright bad looking women still have unlimited options for NSA sex.
> 
> It's when it comes to marriage and commitment etc that their options start to become limited.


I don't know if I could disagree with this more.

Not in my experience. Just as many frustrated women out there as men as far as I can tell.

I've also shot down far more women than any said yes to and have seen women shot down all the time.


----------



## Livvie

TX-SC said:


> Livvie said:
> 
> 
> 
> You said "breasts that are well kept and cared for". Hmmm. I'm having a hard time figuring that out. I wash mine in the shower like my other body parts, but that's it, ever. It's not like that need be to be shaved or anything. What can you do with them to make them well kept??????
> 
> 
> 
> I have dated girls who needed to trim their nipple hair occassionally. It's not uncommon.
Click to expand...

Seriously this is a real thing?


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

oldshirt said:


> Men really do not reject women sexually if the women are not asking anything else from them.


Wow! Talk about buying into a stereotype!

Actually, if that's all a woman is looking for, that's pretty much a guaranteed rejection from me. I want more. And anybody not wanting more is not worth my while.


----------



## TX-SC

Livvie said:


> Seriously this is a real thing?


Absolutely it is. My wife occassionally gets a stray hair. I have had several partners who would get them. I just did a quick check on Google and it said between 30 and 50 percent of women will get an occasional nipple hair.


----------



## ConanHub

Livvie said:


> You said "breasts that are well kept and cared for". Hmmm. I'm having a hard time figuring that out. I wash mine in the shower like my other body parts, but that's it, ever. It's not like that need be to be shaved or anything. What can you do with them to make them well kept??????


Cleanliness is a must, care should be taken to keep the skin soft and pleasant to the scent, tops should be chosen to accentuate whatever type breasts and torso a woman has to be attractive.

Some women do have an odd hair pop up. Taking care of them in these matters is keeping them well kept.


----------



## arbitrator

Livvie said:


> Seriously this is a real thing?


*Oh, yes!

In my collegiate days I went down on this coed girls breast, and let's just say that I got a floss job all at the same time!

For those who like hair on a woman's nether regions, then knock yourself out!

But I'm thinking that they have an inherent duty to themselves to clean it up before exposing it to us poor and horny, unsuspecting and night-blinded victims! *


----------



## oldshirt

ConanHub said:


> I don't know if I could disagree with this more.
> 
> Not in my experience. Just as many frustrated women out there as men as far as I can tell.
> 
> I've also shot down far more women than any said yes to and have seen women shot down all the time.


Nothing is 100%. There are always exceptions and outliers. 

Women get very frustrated in relationships and face rejections and dead ends in relationships. 

But if they don't ask for anything more, I doubt many get rejected sexually for NSA hook ups very often. 

And if one guy declines, the next will take her up on it.


----------



## ConanHub

oldshirt said:


> Nothing is 100%. There are always exceptions and outliers.
> 
> Women get very frustrated in relationships and face rejections and dead ends in relationships.
> 
> But if they don't ask for anything more, I doubt many get rejected sexually for NSA hook ups very often.
> 
> And if one guy declines, the next will take her up on it.


Yeah but same goes for men.

Players score because they keep at it despite rejection.

Hot people are who you are referring to in my experience.

Average and maybe below average do not have the rate of success you are describing regardless of gender.

A woman or a man can easily get laid if they don't mind sleeping with a goblin.


----------



## oldshirt

ConanHub said:


> Yeah but same goes for men.
> 
> Players score because they keep at it despite rejection.
> 
> Hot people are who you are referring to in my experience.
> 
> Average and maybe below average do not have the rate of success you are describing regardless of gender.
> 
> A woman or a man can easily get laid if they don't mind sleeping with a goblin.



Yes and no. 

One of he biggest differences between the girls and boys is that an average woman can hook up with the quarterback and the rock star and the CEO (we're talking NSA here of course) but the same is not true with the average man hooking up with the cheerleader or the model. 

An average or even somewhat below average woman can score with a hot guy at closing time as long as she offers it as NSA and can convince him it's just NSA and does not have an ulterior motive. (which my momma taught me there is always an ulterior motive, but that is for another discussion)

The opposite is not true for an average or below guy and a hot chick unless she just got cheated on by her boyfriend and was real drunk and he just happened to be at the right place at the right time. 

You gotta look at it from a reasonable stand point. If some chick is slobberingly drunk and obnoxious, she may get turned down by some dude that doesn't like slobbering drunks even if she is reasonably good looking. But if some normal, healthy woman makes a reasonable NSA offer to some normal, average joe - it's very rare for her to get turned away. 

And if a guy does turn her down, there is often some kind of extenuating circumstance on his part such as having a serious GF/wife and not wanting to risk it, afraid she isn't sincere about it being strictly NSA, concerned she may have STDs, him being gay etc etc.


----------



## oldshirt

and to stay on topic of the thread - the OP is basically asking if women get turned down for sex because of their vaginas and breasts. 

Can anyone else see the irony and contradictory nature of that question??? LOL


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

When I'm looking for NSA, I don't look for looks. 

I tend to pick older, less attractive men because in my experience they are more attentive to my needs. The young, hot guys think that's all they need to be good in bed. 

It's a big generalization but looks don't do much for me in a one night thing. I need attraction for a long term but sex is sex. I'm not looking at their face that much. 

The biggest difference - the hot guy will come up to me, the average or below average won't. Hard to pick something when they don't make it an option. 

Online is pretty even but only if I say age and looks doesn't matter. If I don't I get mostly young.


----------



## TX-SC

oldshirt said:


> and to stay on topic of the thread - the OP is basically asking if women get turned down for sex because of their vaginas and breasts.
> 
> Can anyone else see the irony and contradictory nature of that question??? LOL


Well, specifically I'm asking if any of you would look at a woman's body parts and let that override her personality, etc. regarding a long-term relationship, or even a second date. Again, I'm not asking about fat, small butt, etc. These things can be changed by exercise, etc. I'm talking about her vulva or breasts mostly. Have you ever hooked up but found her sexual parts displeasing in some way and decided she is not dating material?


----------



## oldshirt

TX-SC said:


> Well, specifically I'm asking if any of you would look at a woman's body parts and let that override her personality, etc. regarding a long-term relationship, or even a second date. Again, I'm not asking about fat, small butt, etc. These things can be changed by exercise, etc. I'm talking about her vulva or breasts mostly. Have you ever hooked up but found her sexual parts displeasing in some way and decided she is not dating material?


I see this as an ironic question and the concept of rejecting a woman because of her vagina and boobs as a total irony if not contradiction. 

A more pertinent question would be, would men even talk to women if they didn't have vaginas and breasts? LOL

But now to give a sincere answer to the question posed - no. Never and I don't see ever rejecting someone on the boobs or jay-jay. 

I've found a lot of people to not be dating/marriage material but it was due to a thousand and one other personality and physical reasons. But never due to boobs and jay jay. 

The only reason I'd reject someone on those would be STD lesions, discharge or bad odor coming from them.


----------



## Ynot

oldshirt said:


> Men really do not reject women sexually if the women are not asking anything else from them.


I must be the exception then, because I can tell you with all honesty that I have absolutely rejected women who were looking for nothing more than sex. I am not a dog or Captain Kirk.


----------



## MAJDEATH

Ynot said:


> I must be the exception then, because I can tell you with all honesty that I have absolutely rejected women who were looking for nothing more than sex. I am not a dog or Captain Kirk.


Same here. Whether they were ugly or had bad looking "parts", I have standards that a free offer of NSA sex couldn't supersede.


----------



## arbitrator

oldshirt said:


> I see this as an ironic question and the concept of rejecting a woman because of her vagina and boobs as a total irony if not contradiction.
> 
> A more pertinent question would be, would men even talk to women if they didn't have vaginas and breasts? LOL
> 
> But now to give a sincere answer to the question posed - no. Never and I don't see ever rejecting someone on the boobs or jay-jay.
> 
> I've found a lot of people to not be dating/marriage material but it was due to a thousand and one other personality and physical reasons. But never due to boobs and jay jay.
> 
> *The only reason I'd reject someone on those would be STD lesions, discharge or bad odor coming from them.*


*But common sense seriously tells you that if you ever get to this point that you are either well on your way or even beyond the commitment of intimacy with this particular person!

Having reached that sexually charged plateau, just how do you extract yourself from that dilemma without appearing to be sexually self-serving?*


----------



## Personal

oldshirt said:


> When it comes to sex, a woman has to smell bad and be filthy, morbidly obese or even downright disfigured or deformed to reject her sexually on physical attributes alone
> 
> (...and even if she is morbidly obese, disfigured or deformed, there are going to be a certain number of men that have a fetish for that particular disfigurement or deformity)
> 
> Men really do not reject women sexually if the women are not asking anything else from them.


Speak for yourself I've turned down no strings attached sex with plenty of women when single, divorced, engaged and married for a variety of reasons many of them aesthetic or related to specific physical features that they can't change and other reasons as well. Plus I had no qualms in making such rejections when single or divorced sometimes, even if it saw me not get any sex at all during those instances since sex with attractive women wasn't hard to find.

The first woman I rejected sexually was when I was still 16 in Year 11 of High School and an 18 year old girl/woman who was in Year 12, who asked me to come over to her place a few times. Then asked me to be her boyfriend and take her virginity, and if I didn't want to she was still interested in losing her virginity with me. I turned both of her offers down, because I was not sexually attracted to her, despite wanting to lose my virginity as well.

Following legal separation from my ex-wife when I was still 20, there was a 19 year old Portuguese woman, who wanted to have sex with me yet I rejected her despite her interest and the fact she was beautiful and a nice person, because I loathed the way she laughed.

Despite the rejection and telling her I was getting divorced and had been married young to scare her off. She kept up her interest in me for a while after I was divorced when I was 22, yet she remained friend zoned till she got angry and asked if she was wasting her time. If her laugh was different I would have been with her.

Likewise just after my divorce I was on an army all corps promotion course when this 25 year old married woman and I had that love at first sight feeling, it was overwhelming we couldn't go one second without smiling stupidly at one another. The only saving grace with respect to successful course completion, was we were in different sections (squads), otherwise...

That said it was obvious to all how star struck we both were even without words, so a guy from her same unit told me she was married which largely saw the end of that.

Except for the fact her and I did find a room alone at the end of the course and did kiss before I stopped it. And we composed ourselves and I said we shouldn't do this because you are married. We both agreed we wanted to have sex and she said she would there and then, no strings if I wanted to. Yet I felt it was poor form to go there so we let each other go.

Funnily enough I still remember her fondly even though I only knew her for a few weeks.

When I was 21 I had sex with a 28 year old woman at a party who was very attractive, she really enjoyed it as I did to and as a consequence she wanted to start dating me. Yet I couldn't stand her first name so I turned her down, if her name was different I would have dated her.

When I was 21 a chubby 19 year old Australian woman that was rather plain looking, asked me to be her boyfriend. Or pending that she would have sex with me to see if I was interested. She even tried to sell me on how rich her family was and how she would buy me things and lifestyle if I would be with her. If I thought she was attractive I would have had sex with her to see if I was interested.

When I was 22 a 19 year old Israeli woman I knew, who was the sister of one of my female friends housemate. At a party asked me to take her virginity no strings attached she didn't want a boyfriend at the time, though she was attractive and I liked her I was interested in another woman so I turned her down.

Not long afterwards one of my other friends came up to me and asked if I was okay if he had sex with her, because she told him I turned her down and she was then asking him instead. I told him I was fine and hoped they would both have fun. Incidentally I didn't have sex with anyone that night, and got nowhere with that other woman.

When I was 23 I rejected one 29 year old divorced mother, who gave me her phone number after getting off a bus. Who I had sex with at the end of our second date in the evening (our fist date we met for lunch earlier).

Though I was attracted to her, the sex was disappointing and more than that I didn't like her vulva or vagina at all (hygiene wasn't the issue, fitting was). So I dumped her over the phone, after thinking about it the following day.

Also when I was 23 I was asked to see one of my friends who had just left her husband who used to beat her up. The reason I was asked was I was meant to be the exit affair. I hadn't seen her for awhile yet I came over when her friend called me telling me she wanted me to come over. So I cam over she was in the bedroom of her then marital home and I was asked to go in.

I then shut the door and we talked and we also started having sex, yet doing such a thing with my friend was a big deal for me as well, especially since my ex-wife cheated on me which is why I ended my first marriage. Yet my friend is tall and attractive and sexy and in many ways we were a great coupling. So because all of these emotions were whirling around for both of us I stopped and turned the short sex we hadn't got very far into just rubbing her and holding her while talking. I wanted to use her, she wanted to use me, yet she also didn't want to use me and I didn't want to use her so we stopped.

Not every guy wants to keep having sex even when they're having sex with someone who is attractive to them if the situation doesn't feel right.

Even in the face of explicit offers of free no strings attached sex at parties, other social events or while at pubs or clubs. I rejected plenty of women, some because I was married or in an exclusive sexual relationship. Yet many were rejected simply because no matter how aesthetically pleasing they were, I had no desire for them because they didn't have that undefinable 'it' which I enjoy.

Likewise I rejected others because I didn't like their face or their eyes or cheeks or lips or hair or hips, or their backsides were to big on and on etc. In fact I went to speak to one woman who I saw form a distance and changed my mind immediately because I didn't like her face, she wasn't disfigured I just didn't find her face appealing so I immediately lost interest.

Now that I am older and very far from the pretty picture I once was, I am more accepting of the fact that being older and crap is inevitable, so I now accept it in others much more readily than I once did.

That said I've always thought some people just click right with you and are sexually appealing regardless of their apparent conventional visual appeal or otherwise. Which harks back to it's okay to be rejected sexually just as it's okay to reject others sexually, since we can't help but desire what we desire. So we would all do well be honest with ourselves and afford others the same courtesy.


----------



## Personal

TX-SC said:


> Absolutely it is. My wife occassionally gets a stray hair. I have had several partners who would get them. I just did a quick check on Google and it said between 30 and 50 percent of women will get an occasional nipple hair.


Yep my wife also occasionally gets a stray hair there as well.


----------



## oldshirt

arbitrator said:


> *But common sense seriously tells you that if you ever get to this point that you are either well on your way or even beyond the commitment of intimacy with this particular person!
> 
> Having reached that sexually charged plateau, just how do you extract yourself from that dilemma without appearing to be sexually self-serving?*


If it ever happens, I'll let you know. I've never had it occur. That is just my theoretical guess on why I would ever turn someone down due to the genitalia or breasts. 

And that is kind of my point. If things are getting to the point that the clothes are coming off, I don't see many men ever turning around and leaving at that point if they don't particularly like the sight of the lady's breasts or genitalia. 

At that stage of the game, it is pretty much go-time unless there is a bad odor or nasty discharge or open sores on it.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

TX-SC said:


> Well, specifically I'm asking if any of you would look at a woman's body parts and let that override her personality, etc. regarding a long-term relationship, or even a second date. Again, I'm not asking about fat, small butt, etc. These things can be changed by exercise, etc. I'm talking about her vulva or breasts mostly. Have you ever hooked up but found her sexual parts displeasing in some way and decided she is not dating material?


If you're trying to tie it back to women who will reject a man for penis size and that we in general are more shallow and picky, it's really not the same thing. How a vulva looks doesn't change how sex feels.


----------



## TX-SC

I'm talking mostly about extended relationships, not so much turning someone down for a ONS. So, you have sex and you see what she looks/feels like naked. Is there any aspect of her parts that would make you shy away from seeing her again. Labia too large or small? Wrong coloration? Nipples not as big or small as you prefer, etc.?


----------



## TX-SC

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> If you're trying to tie it back to women who will reject a man for penis size and that we in general are more shallow and picky, it's really not the same thing. How a vulva looks doesn't change how sex feels.


It certainly relates to how sex is perceived. You also mentioned that it's not only size, but the penis must be "attractive" as well. I'm trying to gauge if this is something men do too.

I recently read an article on News360.com about how many women are ashamed of their own parts. Just wondering if men actually do judge women by how their vulva looks? I don't. But again, guys don't tend to discuss preferences of this type with each other.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

TX-SC said:


> It certainly relates to how sex is perceived. You also mentioned that it's not only size, but the penis must be "attractive" as well. I'm trying to gauge if this is something men do too.
> 
> I recently read an article on News360.com about how many women are ashamed of their own parts. Just wondering if men actually do judge women by how their vulva looks? I don't. But again, guys don't tend to discuss preferences of this type with each other.


My bf has a vulva preference. As did my ex. Enough to turn a girl down, for my ex clearly not. 

I do like an attractive penis but there are very few that aren't that I've seen. I don't care circ or uncirc or a bend or a specific penis type other than a nice size and girth because I prefer looking at and feeling them. 
It's the feel part that would make me turn them down. The look part is a preference but not a deal breaker.


----------



## naiveonedave

katiecrna said:


> What about a flat chested women?


I probably have bare minimum (and actually upper limit standards). In general, for me, a woman has to have a female shape. Grossly large or virtually non-existant chest won't get a 2nd glance...

BTW - too large makes a woman look fat and out of proportion. Too small, no proportion. Too small is probably much less than a B cup....


----------



## Middle of Everything

Agree with Dave on the chest. Average is actually good here. Anywhere from a large A to i dont know a small DD would be fine for me.

Completely flat would be kind of a turn off. Which should be a good thing as that means most men arent attracted to kids.  Likewise VERY large breasts could be kind of a turn-off. Might be something most guys might try once, but long term I would have to say I wouldnt be interested. That being said IF I really liked a woman and in all other areas we were great together, even breasts wouldnt stop me. Can always augment and non existent A to a small B maybe and reduce FF or whatever to Ds.

Vulva? Would have to be some REALLY freaky Predator face looking bits to turn me off here. While some guys make girls feel bad for "roast beef" lips I have no problem with prominent lips. Same for "innies" As long as they function I dont see the big deal. The fact that labiaplasty exists is sad to me.


----------



## uhtred

Maybe I'm unusual, but I'm not a fan of women who look like they put a lot of effort into appearance. Maybe its because I get the impression that they spend too much time on that and not not enough time enjoying the rest of life.

Clean is important, but otherwise I'm not a big fan of getting "gussied up". Fancy evening clothes can be very attractive in an artistic sort of way, but I find casual to be sexier. 





SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I typically don't get all done up on a first date. Average amount. How I would be for any outing to the coffee shop. That way they can see me at my norm and not my best. Cause best isn't coming out that often. I just don't have time for that. I'll surprise you with a few times here and there but you're getting my base normal most often.
> That means casual fitted clothes, no heels, average make up.
> Like, I care enough to not wear pjs but not too much. Cause that's really where I am in life right now.
> 
> I think people should go for what they like and be who they are. It's ok to say something isn't your type, even if it's their vagina or boobs.
> 
> I don't think I'd want someone to say "I'm sorry but your vulva just isn't my type" a simple "we aren't compatible" will do.


----------



## uhtred

I think a surprising number of men are not fans of large breasts. My personal preference is small to medium. Large breasts have always looked uncomfortable to me. 

I can't remember seeing a woman whos breasts were so small that they prevented her from being attractive to me. 




katiecrna said:


> What about a flat chested women?


----------



## john117

Livvie said:


> You said "breasts that are well kept and cared for". Hmmm. I'm having a hard time figuring that out. I wash mine in the shower like my other body parts, but that's it, ever. It's not like that need be to be shaved or anything. What can you do with them to make them well kept??????


Waxing


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

uhtred said:


> Maybe I'm unusual, but I'm not a fan of women who look like they put a lot of effort into appearance. Maybe its because I get the impression that they spend too much time on that and not not enough time enjoying the rest of life.
> 
> Clean is important, but otherwise I'm not a big fan of getting "gussied up". Fancy evening clothes can be very attractive in an artistic sort of way, but I find casual to be sexier.


I don't think it's unusual but I end up with men who have the same preference because that's what I show. If a guy is looking for a girl who does her nails and goes to the salon and has fancy shoes and outfits, that's not me and they can tell that right away. I'm work casual. Enough to not look like a slob but not fancy. 

I can do my make-up and hair in a way that may raise me some attraction points but I'm just not someone who will do that daily so it would be a kind of bait and switch if I did it for the getting to know me part and then stopped once we were comfortable.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

And as for body type, some can be changed with weight loss but some body types are pretty set. Some women have smaller frames, my hip bones alone prevent me from ever getting into a size 4 or 6, I've measured. Someone who likes thin isn't going to find that in me. Even if I lost a bunch of weight, I will always have large hips and thighs. My daughter has a teeny tiny frame, long limbs. I have short stubby limbs so if someone likes long legs, I'm out. A woman I know is very tall and large framed. It's not all just fat, she has a wide frame. She can't alter that. 

Body type is totally ok to have a preference on, it's just not that easy to say that body type doesn't count because it can be changed with weight loss and fitness. Some of it can, not all.


----------



## TX-SC

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> And as for body type, some can be changed with weight loss but some body types are pretty set. Some women have smaller frames, my hip bones alone prevent me from ever getting into a size 4 or 6, I've measured. Someone who likes thin isn't going to find that in me. Even if I lost a bunch of weight, I will always have large hips and thighs. My daughter has a teeny tiny frame, long limbs. I have short stubby limbs so if someone likes long legs, I'm out. A woman I know is very tall and large framed. It's not all just fat, she has a wide frame. She can't alter that.
> 
> Body type is totally ok to have a preference on, it's just not that easy to say that body type doesn't count because it can be changed with weight loss and fitness. Some of it can, not all.


Certainly people can have a preference on body type, but I would think you would be able to identify that before you even hooked up?


----------



## katiecrna

I have an oddly shaped body. Big hips, no boobs. I do with it the best I can by staying thin and toned. Eventually I'll get breast implants so I can have a big B.


----------



## Not

I'm usually naturally very thin, 5'8 and about 120 pounds. A medication I was on for five years caused me to gain almost 50 pounds and for the first time in my life I had curves! Loved it but at the same time it was all fat so I looked really good in clothes but a little blubbery in the buff. Since coming off the meds I seem to have settled at 150 and am happy here. It's either this or work out to lose the fat but then I'm back to looking like a stick with no feminine curves. I'll take the fat thank you very much.

Also some women, not me, have to really go all out with hair, makeup and clothes because of their jobs but that doesn't mean they are high maintenance or are gold diggers. I've already had to change the way I present myself due to a change in job status, no more jeans and tshirts at work and if things work out like I hope I'll be having to dress white collar business at some point. I love my jeans and wash and go with my hair with very little makeup but that may have to change so I can "move up in the world". I'll still be in my jeans outside of work though.


----------



## Not

katiecrna said:


> I have an oddly shaped body. Big hips, no boobs. I do with it the best I can by staying thin and toned. Eventually I'll get breast implants so I can have a big B.


I did breast augmention almost 20 years ago and absolutely love it. I'll never go back and if a man doesn't like it that's his loss. I highly recommend it for those of us on the itty bitty committee.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

TX-SC said:


> Certainly people can have a preference on body type, but I would think you would be able to identify that before you even hooked up?


Yes, but if your premise is 

_ it seems to me that women appear to be more picky than men when it comes to various attributes. _

then body type fits. Facial features fits. Men and women may have different preferences (a woman liking tall, etc) but is one pickier than the other?


----------



## TX-SC

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Yes, but if your premise is
> 
> _ it seems to me that women appear to be more picky than men when it comes to various attributes. _
> 
> then body type fits. Facial features fits. Men and women may have different preferences (a woman liking tall, etc) but is one pickier than the other?


Yes, but I have been very specific in what attributes I'm talking about.


----------



## uhtred

Its find to get breast implants if you really want them for *you*, but don't do it for anyone else. 




katiecrna said:


> I have an oddly shaped body. Big hips, no boobs. I do with it the best I can by staying thin and toned. Eventually I'll get breast implants so I can have a big B.


----------



## katiecrna

Yes women are pickier compared to men, but we don't feel like we're being picky. I think at least for me, my expectation for men is greater than some men's expectation for themselves and it makes me look picky. 

I work out and I'm fit, I expect my man to be. I care about how I dress, so I care how my man dresses. I have a good job and I care about my career, so I want my man to care about his career.


----------



## Luvher4life

As long as I find a woman physically attractive and the chemistry is there, I wouldn't even think twice about the size of her breasts, or what her bits look like. There are other factors much more important than what certain parts of the anatomy look like, so long as there is no deformity that can detract from that attraction.

My ideals are much more varied than surface issues. I have to admit that I DO have to be attracted to her for it go any further than a friendship. I like boobs of all shapes and sizes, and I'm not sure if there is really a preference on my part in size, but I definitely prefer perky nipples. I do like for the two of us to fit each other physically when it comes to the nether regions, but if there is an extreme mismatch in that area, I don't see it budding long term unless there's other things about her that make up the difference.

The answer to the original question is no. I've never not given a girl a chance because of what her boobs or vulva look like. She definitely has to be clean, though, and I have to be attracted to her.


----------



## Phil Anders

I don't see why NSA standards would be lower...if all I'm going after is is sex then I want someone I consider especially hot, right? Never been much good at pure NSA though, I always want to feel emotionally/intellectually compatible, even if the relationship is short-lived. 

There are some attributes that have turned me off, but it isn't as simple as size. Breasts of all sizes can be attractive...or not. Ditto nether parts. One time I was turned off by a woman with almost no labia...made me think of a child, and I just couldn't deal. Another had a very strong natural odor I just couldn't get past. 

It's not like I insist on a "perfect 10". I once turned down a acquaintance, a triathlete with an objectively flawless body who came on to me, because I simply didn't feel that spark with her. Never heard the end of that one from my friends, as if I'd torn up the winning lotto jackpot ticket. I couldn't begin to tell you what was wrong with her "parts," only that they didn't add up to a compelling "whole" for me. 

Hair in the places mentioned doesn't bother me at all, but I don't care for chubby/fat women (or even large-framed women). Same for boyish figures & flat butts. I suppose my damnable male gaze is arguably part of the problem when it comes to fostering insecurity. But more important than any one physical attribute is whether the woman herself is secure and confident about what she has to offer, enough to flaunt it and be playful in bed (and out). There's always reason for such confidence: if she isn't attractive to me, she's certainly attractive to _someone_. 

No one should expend great effort trying to meet the ideals of others, but simply be the healthiest possible version of themselves and focus on those who respond naturally to them. And no one who is turned off by something physical should be so arrogant as to imagine--or, worse yet, _announce_--that they've encountered "ugliness" or aesthetic flaws in the absolute sense. 

The only thing they've confirmed is a personal incompatibility that should be acknowledged as circumspectly and gently as possible, so as not to damage the other's self-perception. For this reason I would never discuss specific turnoffs with the person involved, unless I was pressed and they were matters of behavior, habit or personality that could be changed.


----------



## sissyphus

I think if I dated a woman who's vulva was down to her knees, I'd might have an issue with that.


----------



## Handy

What happened to "Personal" (a long list of women that came on to him and made offers) none of that happened to me. The only turning down I did is when my GF (now W) wanted to live together and get married asap when I wasn't able to support both of us.

As far as breasts, small is OK to good, medium is O to good, large is OK but I have read too many stories about too gig being a problem for the woman. Size doesn't matter as much as is she happy with what mother nature gave her and does she like them touched. A don't touch me woman is NOT OK.

Genital bits is also how does she feel about what she has, that is the most important thing. Surgery for the genital area seems like someone is into looks and vanity.

I will comment on clits that look like a mini penis. How do men and women feel about that issue? Me? If it adds to her pleasure I am OK with something larger than average. Maybe for women in this situation, bigger isn't better. Maybe I should ask does a larger clit equal more pleasure?

The great wall of vulvas 
Changing female body perception through art | The Great Wall of Vagina


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Op- this thread is very interesting because the amount of women having plastic surgery, dyes, and other harmful things done to their lady bits does not match what most men even care about. 

Where are the women getting all the shame and desire to change them from? Porn for one but there's gotta be more to it.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Handy- I have a lady friend with a large clit. I have no idea if it's better because she hasn't experienced without it and I haven't with it. 

But the shame she has and embarrassment sure get in her way. I don't know if it's due to bad comments or her perception. She just says she hates it and it takes her a while before she's comfortable with people seeing it. 

Some guys just love it though.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Op- this thread is very interesting because the amount of women having plastic surgery, dyes, and other harmful things done to their lady bits does not match what most men even care about.
> 
> Where are the women getting all the shame and desire to change them from? Porn for one but there's gotta be more to it.


Good question. Dyes and plastic surgery predate widespread porn use by quite a bit. I've also wondered, even since before porn became prevalent, well pre-internet anyway, why women felt the need to soak their hair in chemicals and paste their faces in artificial products and pump even more artificial things into their boobs. 

Porn may have contributed to accelerating this, but the trend was already well established so, as you say, there must be more to it.


----------



## john117

The chemicals may be warranted. A former lab engineer looks meh in her current hair - long, mousy, curly-ish, blondish... Looks awesome with short, straight, copper red hair. Like her mom but mom's natural allegedly . It's the integration of parts that matters, not individual parts.


----------



## Livvie

john117 said:


> The chemicals may be warranted. A former lab engineer looks meh in her current hair - long, mousy, curly-ish, blondish... Looks awesome with short, straight, copper red hair. Like her mom but mom's natural allegedly . It's the integration of parts that matters, not individual parts.


I assume you are talking about the hair on her head?


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

I was thinking of vaginal dyes (making them more pink) but it all is the same really. 

We women do a lot of things to change stuff men don't care about. 

I know a lot of women do their hair and makeup and plastic surgery for themselves. But how often do we look at our labia or think our bits just aren't pink enough and we'd feel better about ourselves if it was. 

I think it'd be something we are doing for men. But they don't care. So why bother.


----------



## john117

Livvie said:


> I assume you are talking about the hair on her head?


Yes . Said mom is high on my list for life 2.0 if it comes to that. While not physically very attractive in the traditional sense, she really does well in promoting her "good" attributes, physical and otherwise. Sharp dresser, perfectly coiffed, and always projecting authority and commanding respect. She's not old (upper 40's) and really wears the sophisticated academician look very well.


----------



## Handy

SlowlyGoingCrazy, thanks for the reply.

Like I said the first time i saw a really big clit on erotica video, I started to think ick, is that a guy or gal? I have a biological negative reaction to guys making out with other guys. On an intellectual level gays doing what ever they do is OK but my biological level says no way.

After a saw a woman having pleasure (big clit) I was OK with the larger clit. Now I am 100% OK with one that is larger. After all when a sperm enters an egg,we all start out the same (female is the default) then the chemicals in the xy sperm turn on male hormones and transform a clit to a penis. To me a big clit indicated the fetus got a little too much male hormone. In men, the labia become the scrotum. I suppose man-boobs indicate the fetus got a little to much female hormone during pregnancy.

There is no way on Earth people can change or control what the "bits" turn into as they form and later become expressed during puberty. Rather than judge, I try to have empathy for people out of the norm.

My W has small breasts and it bothers her. Me, I would be thrilled to death if I could get her hot and bothered with a little breast play or erotic touching. Because I can't change her mind i quit trying. She OTH thinks guys need BIG boobs to be turned on. The net result is we don't get to a good place.

Big or little clit/labia, big or small breasts doesn't matter as much as her attitude if her attitude is good. If her attitude is good, I am all IN. Big boobs and a hot genital area with a negative attitude kills the excitement.

Tell your friend some old guy on the forum thinks big clits are hot "IF" she has a good attitude about what mother nature gave her.

My opinion is, there are so many below and average people so why all the press about near perfect or perfect people. Us average and sometimes weird/different looking people have the same sexy (or un-sexy in some cases) brain as the rest of the population.

I dare anyone to stand in the entrance of your local WalMart and tell people if they deserve to be sexual or not, based on their looks.

I do have problems with people way over weight but the looks part that can't be improved, well they need loving just like the above average people too.

FYI, as women age some get breast cancer, so what happens then? The cancer in the breast gets removed (lumpectomy) or the whole breast gets removed. Then what? a one breasted woman? No problem, just move that remaining breast to the center. I always like the look of a 1950 Studebaker Champion. Yea. the car with the bullet looking thing in the center of the grill. Kool!!!!
http://fiftiesweb.com/cars/studebaker/

BTW breasts do have some serious issues that are not pleasant as women age. BTDT. Surgery, radiation, chemo, reconstruction, emotional problems, and the list goes on. Learn to appreciate what is, not only what might look perfect to a cultural standard.

Have sex until your legs go limp and you quiver all over. Now that is HOT, HOT, HOT. Nipple hair ain't no big deal.


----------



## uhtred

Cosmetic surgery is big business so it is marketed. 

Also I think a lot of men and women don't really know what the other most often wants. Whether its sports cars or high heels - I think there is a lot of wasted effort. 

Of course some of it isn't really to appeal to the opposite sex, but done in competition with ones own gender. I think to some extent even choices of romantic partners can sometimes be as much about impressing one's friends as what one actually wants. 




SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Op- this thread is very interesting because the amount of women having plastic surgery, dyes, and other harmful things done to their lady bits does not match what most men even care about.
> 
> Where are the women getting all the shame and desire to change them from? Porn for one but there's gotta be more to it.


----------



## katiecrna

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Op- this thread is very interesting because the amount of women having plastic surgery, dyes, and other harmful things done to their lady bits does not match what most men even care about.
> 
> 
> 
> Where are the women getting all the shame and desire to change them from? Porn for one but there's gotta be more to it.




We experience it. We hear men talk, we see it on tv. I think men are way pickier than what the OP is leading on.


----------



## katiecrna

I have heard two of my guy friends say that girls with a little pooch/gut are trashy. 

I have heard men say that women who wear flip flops and flats all the time are frumpy. 

I think that being a women... the General maintenance is still pretty time consuming for living a real life, at least for me it is. Shaving takes a lot of time. But for me... doing my hair takes SO long, and I'm not talking about styling it I'm talking about blow dying it so it's not a frizzy poof. I do it every 3ish days, and my family watches me do it and they are like geez that's so much effort. And things that go along with being feminine take time... like have smooth soft skin, shaving, exfoliating sometimes, lotion. 

Or maybe I just think that because I grew up the only girl with 2 brothers and they didn't have to do the type of maintenance that we do, except shaving.


----------



## wild jade

katiecrna said:


> We experience it. We hear men talk, we see it on tv. I think men are way pickier than what the OP is leading on.


This is my experience too. And we saw a fair bit of evidence of it on this thread, with guys outlining their long lists of physical preferences. 

Even if you narrow it to just the two things that OP is willing to talk about, I know guys reject women on breast size all the time. They usually do it before actually hooking up, but they do it. Labia, of course, requires clothes off. But guys reject women for that too.


----------



## naiveonedave

In general, I think the better looking men or women are pickier, because they can be. They have way more options than the average. A 9 probably has 100x the options of a 5.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

I have heard many low - average men being very picky and angry that the women they find hot aren't into them. 
They may settle for less because of what they can get but some seem to have this entitlement feeling that they should have a hot woman and the system is against them. 

Using only genital preferences as a measure of who is pickier isn't giving the full picture. 
It'd be like saying "a lot of women like tall men but men don't often care about height so women are pickier"

Well, no we have different areas of preference but not pickier in general.


----------



## Middle of Everything

katiecrna said:


> We experience it. We hear men talk, we see it on tv. I think men are way pickier than what the OP is leading on.


Some might be but not the ones here. Notice John117 didnt even mention the breast size of his lab worker hottie he fancies. 

Some immature frat boy wanna be types may talk about requirements for breast size and what vulva they think is gross or not in their immature world, I say again most "men" dont feel this way.


----------



## NextTimeAround

Middle of Everything said:


> Some might be but not the ones here. Notice John117 didnt even mention the breast size of his lab worker hottie he fancies.
> 
> Some immature frat boy wanna be types may talk about requirements for breast size and what vulva they think is gross or not in their immature world, I say again most "men" dont feel this way.


I have noticed herd mentality. If some woman is lucky enough to get the right guy to "promote her socially" then you notice most of the guys in the group thinking she's hot, funny, generous to the exclusion of the other women around.

I notice that my husband would say favorable things about certain women about charaterstics that he normally did not value.


----------



## naiveonedave

NextTimeAround said:


> I have noticed herd mentality. If some woman is lucky enough to get the right guy to "promote her socially" then you notice most of the guys in the group thinking she's hot, funny, generous to the exclusion of the other women around.
> 
> I notice that my husband would say favorable things about certain women about charaterstics that he normally did not value.


Ironically, I have never seen it as you describe, but change genders and I see it in spades.


----------



## john117

Middle of Everything said:


> Some might be but not the ones here. Notice John117 didnt even mention the breast size of his lab worker hottie he fancies.
> 
> Some immature frat boy wanna be types may talk about requirements for breast size and what vulva they think is gross or not in their immature world, I say again most "men" dont feel this way.


It's lab worker's Mom actually  she's on the big side overall but with a tall frame and excellent fashion sense wears it very well.


----------



## uhtred

I think that some men and some women choose partners in order to impress their friends. Thats sort of the meaning of "trophy wife". 




NextTimeAround said:


> I have noticed herd mentality. If some woman is lucky enough to get the right guy to "promote her socially" then you notice most of the guys in the group thinking she's hot, funny, generous to the exclusion of the other women around.
> 
> I notice that my husband would say favorable things about certain women about charaterstics that he normally did not value.


----------



## DustyDog

katiecrna said:


> I think If your a butt guy, you would break up with someone who doesn't have a butt. If your a boob guy, you will break up with someone with no boobs.
> So I do think men care about a women's physical attributes more than the OP is letting on.


But, IMO, such guys are pretty rare. 

A butt guy comes in a couple flavors - likes 'em big, likes 'em small, in between, etc. I tend to like 'em small, so they don't get in the way of certain positions. However, most guys who obsess over one body part, after having experienced women of different physical characteristics, ends up realizing that a "hot" body (by his definition) does not make a relationship work. It takes a lot more, and the falling in love part of it makes even a woman who's not in your normal comfort zone sexy. In college, I dated a woman who was perpetually 40 pounds overweight...one of the few things I tended to avoid...and it worked very well, as her personality and the way she showed affection were flat-out sexy in their own right. Of course, for me, college was 40 years ago.

And now, what's this? A few months ago, I was spending time with two different women...they both know each other, were OK with the situation, joked about it, we even did dates as a trio. The one I adore is bigger - busty, curvy, possibly overweight but I don't think so, physically quite capable, and her body is about ten years firmer than her age. She's insatiable in the sack and very easy to please, and omigod what a kisser...I spring to attention at the thought of her full lips on mine. We bond intellectually, emotionally, on levels I've never experienced. Unbelievably awesome in so many ways. And yet, when it comes to intercourse, I deflate...that's OK with her, she prefers to enjoy my oral attention and boy does she express appreciation for that. She loves giving me pleasure, and likes me on top, but for whatever reason, I don't keep it up - that doesn't keep me from finishing the job, but I wonder if she wouldn't enjoy it more if I remained at full attention. She says no, since she's had kids, no guy is really big enough to give her a lot of stimulation down there. Then, comes her friend...a bit on the self-centered side, but she means well...for whatever reason, she looks older than she is, her topside is a bit saggy despite being small, and we relate as people who are emotionally connected, but not so deeply. In bed, she's passive...she asks for it, her climax is fairly predictable, and she wants it the same way every time. A nice person, but not the sort who'd make my heart jump out of my ribcage. And yet...despite no obvious reason why I'd find her the more appealing one - she gets to experience me at my fullest, ever time. What the?


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

I won't date guys who aren't actively into curvy, jiggly women. 

I am not ok being a "her body type isn't my preference but I like her anyway" 

If having a large rear end and some jiggle isn't on their must have list, I don't want them. 

It will eventually cause an issue in one way or the other. I like my size. I'm not changing it.


----------



## TX-SC

Interesting discussions. It appears guys might be a little less picky than women in this regard, but it's a fairly small sample size.

As noted previously, the reasons for asking are two-fold. First, I read an article about how many women see their genitals and breasts as subpar or ugly. I don't think men typically feel that way and most of us like the variety. Second, I read SGC's post where she said her ex wanted to chop off her labia with a razor. Pretty dang extreme! So, I wanted to see if reality meets my expectations.


----------



## Middle of Everything

TX-SC said:


> Interesting discussions. It appears guys might be a little less picky than women in this regard, but it's a fairly small sample size.
> 
> As noted previously, the reasons for asking are two-fold. First, I read an article about how many women see their genitals and breasts as subpar or ugly. I don't think men typically feel that way and most of us like the variety. Second, I read SGC's post where she said her ex wanted to chop off her labia with a razor. Pretty dang extreme! So, I wanted to see if reality meets my expectations.


I think some of that may have to do with guys being able to hold and manipulate their genitals as early as they can find it. Stands to reason they are going to be familiar with it and think its pretty damn special.  He's like an old friend by the time a guys a teenager.

Ive been told much of womens anxiety about their bits stems from them not being able to see it without aid. Much of what they "know" about it comes from hearing juvenile males talking about something they dont understand at all.

Why women dont like their breasts Im not as sure. My theory would be size. Women that dont like their breasts seem to be under the same spell as some men with penis'. Bigger is better. They take this and run with it. Most times too far.


----------



## katiecrna

Middle of Everything said:


> Why women dont like their breasts Im not as sure. My theory would be size. Women that dont like their breasts seem to be under the same spell as some men with penis'. Bigger is better. They take this and run with it. Most times too far.




Breasts are more complicated because it's not only size, it's shape, symmetrical, one might be bigger then the other, one might be higher than the other, it's fullness, saggy-ness, and don't even get me started with nipples... size, shape, color, flat, inverted etc. and as a women I see that men don't realize how women's breasts can vary, I think many men are use to porn breasts and that's not reality.


----------



## Middle of Everything

katiecrna said:


> Breasts are more complicated because it's not only size, it's shape, symmetrical, one might be bigger then the other, one might be higher than the other, it's fullness, saggy-ness, and don't even get me started with nipples... size, shape, color, flat, inverted etc. and as a women I see that men don't realize how women's breasts can vary, I think many men are use to porn breasts and that's not reality.


I dont think you give us guys enough credit when it comes to T, A, and P. :grin2:

Trust me most guys know about ALL of those things. Thing is we dont care as much. Even my wife who I think has perfectly proportional areola and nipples can be self conscious about hers. 
Saggyness? Yeah they do more now after 2 kids and age. But I still love them.

When we have watched some older porn together and there have been variations in breasts its my wife who thinks "those are weird" Me? Not so much. Think the areola have weird color or size? Most guys are just going to think "nice, boobs for me" Same with nipples and most other variations.

This all said, there are some guys who are *******s and may make a woman feel bad for something they perceive as different. I dont know how else to say it but guys that dont appreciate variation in womens bodies and find the beauty in different kinds of breasts and vulva arent worth giving it to. Doubt they would be very good in bed with attitudes like that anyway.


----------



## Livvie

Middle of Everything said:


> TX-SC said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting discussions. It appears guys might be a little less picky than women in this regard, but it's a fairly small sample size.
> 
> As noted previously, the reasons for asking are two-fold. First, I read an article about how many women see their genitals and breasts as subpar or ugly. I don't think men typically feel that way and most of us like the variety. Second, I read SGC's post where she said her ex wanted to chop off her labia with a razor. Pretty dang extreme! So, I wanted to see if reality meets my expectations.
> 
> 
> 
> I think some of that may have to do with guys being able to hold and manipulate their genitals as early as they can find it. Stands to reason they are going to be familiar with it and think its pretty damn special.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He's like an old friend by the time a guys a teenager.
> 
> Ive been told much of womens anxiety about their bits stems from them not being able to see it without aid. Much of what they "know" about it comes from hearing juvenile males talking about something they dont understand at all.
> 
> Why women dont like their breasts Im not as sure. My theory would be size. Women that dont like their breasts seem to be under the same spell as some men with penis'. Bigger is better. They take this and run with it. Most times too far.
Click to expand...

I can tell you why some women don't like their breasts. I'm my opinion, from my life experiences of 40+ years. Men **judge** women on their looks, especially on their breast size, starting at a very young age. They are very verbal about it, especially in groups. This one is a 10, that one is a 6, etc. On and on about breasts and what size they are. Seriously....on and on and on and on. Why do you think (and I just looked this up) between 200,000 to 300,000 breast augmentation surgeries are currently performed per year in the US? I wonder what it is worldwide!! That's a lot of women getting bags of saline or silicone surgically implanted into their bodies. Do you think if men were not so fixated on BIG breasts this would be happening? 

When I was 12 my friend and I were at a fair. We walked past some older teenage guys. We were not developed yet. They started jeering and laughing at us. One of them screamed out at us: no tits, what a waste of bones you are. *******s.


----------



## Satya

I was always average growing up, ballooned a little in college, moved to Europe and learned that portion size was really the biggest issue I had. I learned to cook more, eat a balanced diet, walk everywhere, cut all junk out. No change in my weight in the last maybe 10 years. I've had many people call me skinny or slim, but I really wouldn't use those words on myself. I've seen really skinny and I usually want to feed those people! 

I will be the first to admit I have an asprin butt (flat w/a crack, lol). I speed walk all the time, like a mule always carrying heavy bags, uphill, and my butt has muscle but my genetics insist that it maintains the asprin shape. Some of us can't win, @Ynot. 

Unless maybe I do a strict bunz of steel regiment, asprin butt for life I guess. I yam what I yam (and Odo has no complaints).

And yeah, I get the occasional boob hair!Annoying but eh, that's life. Pluck! 

I personally dislike cosmetic surgery, big quantities of makeup, and obvious dye jobs. Not to give any bleach blonde members a hard time, I'm only talking about myself and what I wouldn't do. I respect others for their cosmetic choices. I guess I worked too long at genetics companies that I learned to appreciate what we have rather than hide or manipulate it.


----------



## JayDee7

If she's too hairy, has flappy lips you know where, small nipples, and tattoos are deal breakers for me.


----------



## john117

katiecrna said:


> Breasts are more complicated because it's not only size, it's shape, symmetrical, one might be bigger then the other, one might be higher than the other, it's fullness, saggy-ness, and don't even get me started with nipples... size, shape, color, flat, inverted etc. and as a women I see that men don't realize how women's breasts can vary, I think many men are use to porn breasts and that's not reality.


This sounds like a design review at work 

There's a lot of truth there unfortunately. Expectations are overblown by media and fashion.


----------



## anonmd

katiecrna said:


> Breasts are more complicated because it's not only size, it's shape, symmetrical, one might be bigger then the other, one might be higher than the other, it's fullness, saggy-ness, and don't even get me started with nipples... size, shape, color, flat, inverted etc. and as a women I see that men don't realize how women's breasts can vary, I think many men are use to porn breasts and that's not reality.


Indeed, vagina's too. It's all good. I'm quite partial to floppy / droopy 50 something year old boobs myself. The female they are attached too seems to think they drag on the ground judging by the occasional self criticism but they are FAR from hitting the ground >.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

katiecrna said:


> Breasts are more complicated because it's not only size, it's shape, symmetrical, one might be bigger then the other, one might be higher than the other, it's fullness, saggy-ness, and don't even get me started with nipples... size, shape, color, flat, inverted etc. and as a women I see that men don't realize how women's breasts can vary, I think many men are use to porn breasts and that's not reality.


Porn breasts are a turnoff. So obviously fake. I'd much rather grab a modest amount of flesh than a large amount of silicone. I'm are I'm the oddball here, the trend to fake boob alone is enough to turn me away from porn.


----------



## Middle of Everything

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Porn breasts are a turnoff. So obviously fake. I'd much rather grab a modest amount of flesh than a large amount of silicone. I'm are I'm the oddball here, the trend to fake boob alone is enough to turn me away from porn.


Same.

Which is part of the reason if the wife and I ever do watch its old 80s stuff. Natural breasts, natural bush. Plus my wife and I prefer the campy almost silly nature of the older films.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

I watch amateur porn cause I prefer the more average body types. 

I doubt the man who loves us is going to be all picky and notice all our flaws that we see or that our left nipple is slightly bigger than the right but in general, in life, we are judged by all the silly little things in different ways. 

I am fine with men having preferences and I hope I would match the preferences of who is picking me. There's nothing wrong with liking big boobs or small boobs or tall or short or different body frames.


----------



## wild jade

Livvie said:


> I can tell you why some women don't like their breasts. I'm my opinion, from my life experiences of 40+ years. Men **judge** women on their looks, especially on their breast size, starting at a very young age. They are very verbal about it, especially in groups. This one is a 10, that one is a 6, etc. On and on about breasts and what size they are. Seriously....on and on and on and on. Why do you think (and I just looked this up) between 200,000 to 300,000 breast augmentation surgeries are currently performed per year in the US? I wonder what it is worldwide!! That's a lot of women getting bags of saline or silicone surgically implanted into their bodies. Do you think if men were not so fixated on BIG breasts this would be happening?
> 
> When I was 12 my friend and I were at a fair. We walked past some older teenage guys. We were not developed yet. They started jeering and laughing at us. One of them screamed out at us: no tits, what a waste of bones you are. *******s.


This is my experience too. I've heard men of all ages scrutinizing breasts (and every other female body part for that matter) in great detail, and making their preferences abundantly clear. 

Not every guy has the same preferences, but there are a lot of them who are very, very picky.


----------



## uhtred

True, but there are also a lot of men who are not picky in that way. 

I have never thought of a woman as attractive based on a set of parameters. Its always the entire picture, and that picture includes behavior / personality.






wild jade said:


> This is my experience too. I've heard men of all ages scrutinizing breasts (and every other female body part for that matter) in great detail, and making their preferences abundantly clear.
> 
> Not every guy has the same preferences, but there are a lot of them who are very, very picky.


----------



## Young at Heart

TX-SC said:


> The "size" post is interesting and it seems to me that women appear to be more picky than men when it comes to various attributes. *Have any of the men here ever either broken up with, or refused to date, a woman because of a physical attribute other than weight or facial features (looks)? *By this I mean how big or firm her breasts are, or how her vulva looks? In other words, have you ever seen a woman's vagina or breasts and said "nope, this is a one and done situation."
> 
> In my readings on here, most men are saying they think all vulva/breasts are awesome. Just kind of interested if these physical aspects actually are important to men in general?
> 
> I have had sex with only 20 women. I've made out with a few more. Of those, I've never been turned off by a woman's body. I have been with a couple that because of weight loss had less than firm breasts. I've been with a couple that were perhaps not my preference in how their vulva looked, but I never would consider dumping them or not dating them for that. I'm just wondering if men are really less picky than women in this regard?
> 
> You don't need to get specific in what your preferences are. I'm just wondering how many men here would or have broken up or not dated someone over their genitalia or breasts? I'm thinking that number would be fairly low, but I may be wrong.


If I outlive my wife, there are two attributes that I might really look for.

(1) a sexual demand similar to mine and....

(2) a women who had Prehensile Feet and was into foot sex (yes about 8% of the population have prehensile feet)! >

https://doctorvikki.com/2016/10/prehensile-feet-people-with-feet-similar-to-monkeys/

Seriously, I wonder if women with such feet are more inclined to use their feet in ways that the rest of us would not.

Oh, well, I shall probably never know and be happy none-the-less.:wink2:


----------



## Ynot

Satya said:


> I was always average growing up, ballooned a little in college, moved to Europe and learned that portion size was really the biggest issue I had. I learned to cook more, eat a balanced diet, walk everywhere, cut all junk out. No change in my weight in the last maybe 10 years. I've had many people call me skinny or slim, but I really wouldn't use those words on myself. I've seen really skinny and I usually want to feed those people!
> 
> I will be the first to admit I have an asprin butt (flat w/a crack, lol). I speed walk all the time, like a mule always carrying heavy bags, uphill, and my butt has muscle but my genetics insist that it maintains the asprin shape. Some of us can't win, @Ynot.
> 
> Unless maybe I do a strict bunz of steel regiment, asprin butt for life I guess. I yam what I yam (and Odo has no complaints).
> 
> And yeah, I get the occasional boob hair!Annoying but eh, that's life. Pluck!
> 
> I personally dislike cosmetic surgery, big quantities of makeup, and obvious dye jobs. Not to give any bleach blonde members a hard time, I'm only talking about myself and what I wouldn't do. I respect others for their cosmetic choices. I guess I worked too long at genetics companies that I learned to appreciate what we have rather than hide or manipulate it.


TBH my biggest complaint was lack of muscle tone, not necessarily the shape. I dislike couch potatoes.


----------



## wild jade

uhtred said:


> True, but there are also a lot of men who are not picky in that way.
> 
> I have never thought of a woman as attractive based on a set of parameters. Its always the entire picture, and that picture includes behavior / personality.


Ya, there's also lots of guys who think like you.

It's just that in a world filled with events dedicated to having men judge women on their physical attributes (wet t-shirt contests, beauty contests, etc.), the whole premise of the OP strikes me as odd. 

And yes, there is a bit of difference in context, but IME, the sorts of observations you might hear at these events are definitely also used for picking and keeping sex mates. Personally I would say men are much pickier than women, generally speaking, but the truth is probably closer to even.


----------



## Handy

* WildJade

It's just that in a world filled with events dedicated to having men judge women on their physical attributes *

But, doesn't most of that judging actually stem from the people that make commercials, posters, and advertisers that want people to buy their products so the company can make money???

If you Google all of the products with advertising aimed at women, that said she is missing something or god for bid has an odor or a look that would turn a man off, then much of the judging of women is aimed at making women feel inferior but the product will fix all of the problems.

Here is an advertisement I find unreal. The product is Lysol disinfectant.
Lysol douche ad, 1928, at MUM

Men get told gray hair won't get you the hot women so men need to color their gray hair. OK, in the UK it is grey.


----------



## wild jade

Handy said:


> * WildJade
> 
> It's just that in a world filled with events dedicated to having men judge women on their physical attributes *
> 
> But, doesn't most of that judging actually stem from the people that make commercials, posters, and advertisers that want people to buy their products so the company can make money???
> 
> If you Google all of the products with advertising aimed at women, that said she is missing something or god for bid has an odor or a look that would turn a man off, then much of the judging of women is aimed at making women feel inferior but the product will fix all of the problems.
> 
> Here is an advertisement I find unreal. The product is Lysol disinfectant.
> Lysol douche ad, 1928, at MUM
> 
> Men get told gray hair won't get you the hot women so men need to color their gray hair. OK, in the UK it is grey.


Gah! That's some ad!

Yes, absolutely, advertisers aim to make money by making people feel bad about themselves, but to my mind, that's a different issue.

Have you ever seen a wet-tshrit or a bikini contest? Ever listened to the audience comments on the participants? I have, and I can tell you that even these young and beautiful girls with bodies they actively wish to flaunt are subject to quite harsh criticism. 

And look at people like Donald Trump. Yes, he's just one guy, but there are many who think like him. And he has no qualms whatsoever about publicly shaming women for the way they look. I would expect that he's as fussy as Hugh Hefner was about breasts and labia.


----------



## uhtred

Its difficult for me to tell how common each of these attitudes are, I'm in a rather unusual social circle. I don't think I've ever had a friend comment on a women's breasts or other body part, just a more general "she's really stunning". This doesn't mean I don't have a great appreciation for the female form - I enjoy a walk along the beach as much as the next guy, but its not *important* to me. I also don't have one particular "optimum" that I want, I find a wide range of different sorts of beauty. 

The media distorts ideas of attractiveness and correct behavior for men and women. I get tired of Hollywood movies where the male character always seems to have to prove his worth by beating the c*** out of someone. 


I don't know how to measure "pickiness". I do get the impression that there are more men for whom physical attributes are very important than there are women for whom that is true. Its difficult to tell if that difference is in any way innate, learned, or simply what is socially acceptable. Do most people think its OK for a woman to comment on a man's butt, even if she does think its really hot?










wild jade said:


> Ya, there's also lots of guys who think like you.
> 
> It's just that in a world filled with events dedicated to having men judge women on their physical attributes (wet t-shirt contests, beauty contests, etc.), the whole premise of the OP strikes me as odd.
> 
> And yes, there is a bit of difference in context, but IME, the sorts of observations you might hear at these events are definitely also used for picking and keeping sex mates. Personally I would say men are much pickier than women, generally speaking, but the truth is probably closer to even.


----------



## Luvher4life

uhtred said:


> True, but there are also a lot of men who are not picky in that way.
> 
> I have never thought of a woman as attractive based on a set of parameters. Its always the entire picture, and that picture includes behavior / personality.


This has been my experience also. I don't have a particular set of parameters that make a woman attractive to me. I am attracted to a pretty face, and beautiful eyes get me every time. The rest of her just has to be proportional. Her personality and behavior are what will actually hold the attraction. I can also say most men feel this way when it comes down to it, or at least the majority of the men I've been around through my 56 years on earth.

Be yourself, take care of yourself, and be the best person you can be, and somebody will certainly be attracted to you no matter what you look like. Be confident, secure, and put yourself out there. If you let insecurity get the best of you, you will always have trouble finding happiness.


----------



## katiecrna

I find that the "city" boys I hang out with that dress nice and take care of themselves are very picky and critical of women. I think this is because they are picky with how they look as well.


----------



## anonmd

That's kinda funny, men commenting at a wet T-shirt contest. Of course we comment, we are visual and there is a show going on .

From time to time I'll go to a car show. I'll have plenty to say about the positive attributes of Ferrari's, Corvette's, Mustang's etc. If I won the lottery I might buy one. On the other hand I have chosen nothing but cars that cost no more than about $20K in the 30 years+ I have been buying cars. I did own a used Miata for a few years that had some sex appeal but every other car has been fairly uninspiring but they did all do what I needed them to do...

Now, I would put my wife at least = to the Miata, if not higher. She didn't seem to mind to crapbox I was drivin at the time.


----------



## Not

Anyone else ever experience that phenomenon where the more time you spend with someone new their looks change? I've experienced this where a not so handsome man became more and more physically attractive the more I got to know him. I've experienced this with the opposite too. Hotties become average and pathetic once you get to know them.

For all the negative talk that men do about women, which I have also experienced, those cruel words don't mean a thing in the end. If a women is attractive on the inside those same guys would end up falling for her and eating their words.


----------



## uhtred

I find that if someones personality / behavior is attractive, I also find them much more physically attractive. 



Not said:


> Anyone else ever experience that phenomenon where the more time you spend with someone new their looks change? I've experienced this where a not so handsome man became more and more physically attractive the more I got to know him. I've experienced this with the opposite too. Hotties become average and pathetic once you get to know them.
> 
> For all the negative talk that men do about women, which I have also experienced, those cruel words don't mean a thing in the end. If a women is attractive on the inside those same guys would end up falling for her and eating their words.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

NextTimeAround said:


> I read on another message board a guy admitting that he had to come to terms with the fact that he liked breasts and that the woman he dated for a few months practically totally flat. He had to cut ties with her.


Then there are men like my husband who has said he'd prefer "mosquito bite" breasts over fake ones... he also is turned off by tattoos & piercings...


----------



## TX-SC

SimplyAmorous said:


> Then there are men like my husband who has said he'd prefer "mosquito bite" breasts over fake ones... he also is turned off by tattoos & piercings...


I'll admit, I'm not into tattoos, piercings, or fake breasts.


----------



## Handy

I'm not into tattoos, piercings, or fake breasts, but if the person inside the body is decent, I will try to over look those items and see the person on the inside.

Wild Jade, how about concentrating on the guys that aren't all that into wet T-shirt contests. Yes I would look at wet T-shirt contests but it isn't what I would want in a long term relationship. There are lots of decent men that do not objectify women. They might make shallow comments but would never act that way. I am thinking the girls that do the wet T-shirt thing are doing it to place higher in the young person's pecking order with "my boobs are better than the other girl's boobs." In other words she is competing with other girls for status.

As far as fancy cars, they don't do anything for me any longer. Unless a car is a classic likely to increase in value, cars are a depreciating asset. I worked at a new car dealership for 10 years. 99% of the new cars sold were worn out or all scrapped.


----------



## NextTimeAround

Handy said:


> I'm not into tattoos, piercings, or fake breasts, but if the person inside the body is decent, I will try to over look those items and see the person on the inside.
> 
> *Wild Jade, how about concentrating on the guys that aren't all that into wet T-shirt contests. Yes I would look at wet T-shirt contests but it isn't what I would want in a long term relationship. *There are lots of decent men that do not objectify women. They might make shallow comments but would never act that way. I am thinking the girls that do the wet T-shirt thing are doing it to place higher in the young person's pecking order with "my boobs are better than the other girl's boobs." In other words she is competing with other girls for status.
> 
> As far as fancy cars, they don't do anything for me any longer. Unless a car is a classic likely to increase in value, cars are a depreciating asset. I worked at a new car dealership for 10 years. 99% of the new cars sold were worn out or all scrapped.


in fact, I was told not to do those kinds of things because good men would look down on me.


----------



## wild jade

anonmd said:


> That's kinda funny, men commenting at a wet T-shirt contest. Of course we comment, we are visual and there is a show going on .
> 
> From time to time I'll go to a car show. I'll have plenty to say about the positive attributes of Ferrari's, Corvette's, Mustang's etc. If I won the lottery I might buy one. On the other hand I have chosen nothing but cars that cost no more than about $20K in the 30 years+ I have been buying cars. I did own a used Miata for a few years that had some sex appeal but every other car has been fairly uninspiring but they did all do what I needed them to do...
> 
> Now, I would put my wife at least = to the Miata, if not higher. She didn't seem to mind to crapbox I was drivin at the time.


It wasn't the positive comments I was thinking of. It was the negative. Ever go to a car show and start talking about how low hanging that muffler is, or how cramped the interior is? How ugly the paint job?

And then still stick with your boxy clunker because you just need to get things done?


----------



## wild jade

Handy said:


> I'm not into tattoos, piercings, or fake breasts, but if the person inside the body is decent, I will try to over look those items and see the person on the inside.
> 
> Wild Jade, how about concentrating on the guys that aren't all that into wet T-shirt contests. Yes I would look at wet T-shirt contests but it isn't what I would want in a long term relationship. There are lots of decent men that do not objectify women. They might make shallow comments but would never act that way. I am thinking the girls that do the wet T-shirt thing are doing it to place higher in the young person's pecking order with "my boobs are better than the other girl's boobs." In other words she is competing with other girls for status.
> 
> As far as fancy cars, they don't do anything for me any longer. Unless a car is a classic likely to increase in value, cars are a depreciating asset. I worked at a new car dealership for 10 years. 99% of the new cars sold were worn out or all scrapped.



I'm not "concentrating" on these men, just using them as an example because they are so obvious, so vocal, and quite plentiful. 

The premise of the OP is that women are way more picky than men because men don't really care much about women's physical attributes.

Which to me is just so obviously and wildly wrong that my jaw just drops and I am speechless.

Then, of course, it's narrowed to just breasts and labia. But even then, I can tell you that lots of guys are extremely picky about these things -- even insisting their partners get surgery, or dumping them for not having big (or perky, or small, or shapely) enough breasts or a pink and pretty and perfect v.


----------



## TX-SC

wild jade said:


> I'm not "concentrating" on these men, just using them as an example because they are so obvious, so vocal, and quite plentiful.
> 
> The premise of the OP is that women are way more picky than men because men don't really care much about women's physical attributes.
> 
> Which to me is just so obviously and wildly wrong that my jaw just drops and I am speechless.
> 
> Then, of course, it's narrowed to just breasts and labia. But even then, I can tell you that lots of guys are extremely picky about these things -- even insisting their partners get surgery, or dumping them for not having big (or perky, or small, or shapely) enough breasts or a pink and pretty and perfect v.


Perhaps I have a higher grade of friends, but none of them have ever said such things around me. The most I have ever heard would be someone disparaging a woman because she was overweight. Yes, they might make an off handed comment like "NICE!" when some big breasted lady in a low cut shirt was in view (but not within HEARING), but I've never heard them put down a woman because of small breasts. I have no idea what their preferences regarding color or size of vulva is, because we don't discuss such things.

Just from talking to friends and reading here, it seems like women are a bit more chatty with their friends about sex and the attributes of their various lovers. Honestly, I have never discussed the various physical traits of any girl I've dated with any friend of mine. It just never comes up. In fact, I don't recall ever discussing how good or bad she was in bed either. Again, it's just not a discussion topic. 

Have there been discussions about sex? Sure, but mostly of the "What celebrity would you want to have sex with?" variety, never anything too personal.


----------



## uhtred

I think this varies tremendously between different social groups. 



TX-SC said:


> Perhaps I have a higher grade of friends, but none of them have ever said such things around me. The most I have ever heard would be someone disparaging a woman because she was overweight. Yes, they might make an off handed comment like "NICE!" when some big breasted lady in a low cut shirt was in view (but not within HEARING), but I've never heard them put down a woman because of small breasts. I have no idea what their preferences regarding color or size of vulva is, because we don't discuss such things.
> 
> Just from talking to friends and reading here, it seems like women are a bit more chatty with their friends about sex and the attributes of their various lovers. Honestly, I have never discussed the various physical traits of any girl I've dated with any friend of mine. It just never comes up. In fact, I don't recall ever discussing how good or bad she was in bed either. Again, it's just not a discussion topic.
> 
> Have there been discussions about sex? Sure, but mostly of the "What celebrity would you want to have sex with?" variety, never anything too personal.


----------



## TX-SC

uhtred said:


> I think this varies tremendously between different social groups.


That could be. I honestly have no idea. I have never heard it in gym locker rooms, or with any of my friends, so I have no real way of knowing if that's a cultural or social thing.


----------



## NextTimeAround

I can think of 3 guys that I dated who, when they wanted to insult me, used very explicit sexual insults.

2 of the guys i dated in my 20s when I was living in my midwestern hometown. Big mistake. I was trying to be open minded. These guys came from poor families and moved into careers that put them in the middle class.

But some people refuse to change. The third guy I dated between marriages so in my 40s. Same back story.

All three are black as well. I imagine I could make some assumptions here:

1. Since my late father was a doctor, our family was firmly in the middle class. Maybe all 3 of these guys thought that they could complete their transformation to the middle class through me.

2. I'm very fairskinned; been told that I talk white and I attended the expensive local prep school. Was I the white black girl they were looking for since they couldn't find a decent white woman who wanted to date them?

3. Among black women, there is the belief that a black man will lower his standards for a white woman and will put up with more ****. So I guess they decided that they could say whatever they wanted and I would still feel lucky that I am dating a black man with a job.

One interesting moment I had with one of the guys, we only dated 6 months, he stalked me after that.

Due to youth, I made the mistake that trying to remain friends was a way to let someone down easily. And in my book, being friends does not mean you are available every Saturday night. In frustration, the guy says, "You know I could do better. I could find a woman with a real job." (I was underemployed at the time.)

Even for someone like myself who tried to be accommodating .... to a fault..... had had enough and I went NC. And his stalking then went into overdrive.

It wasn't until decades later as I was thinking about this incident that I came up with a possibility that made sense. That is, as he was a teenager during the 1970s, a time when divorce laws were only starting to change, he may have noticed that when men, his relatives, his neighbors, told a woman things like "I could do better" or "You better behave," that probably brought the results that they were looking for .... given the dire settlements an average, particularly a poor woman would get if she ever decided to leave the marriage.

And so while I have taught myself now not to wait until the 3 strikes and you're out return, the thought of dating a guy from a lower class is a real non starter for me.


----------



## MAJDEATH

My W is much more vocal and concerned with my physical appearance than I am with hers. She frequently will say: "MajDeath has a big ****, and he's not afraid to use it".


----------



## wild jade

TX-SC said:


> Perhaps I have a higher grade of friends, but none of them have ever said such things around me. The most I have ever heard would be someone disparaging a woman because she was overweight. Yes, they might make an off handed comment like "NICE!" when some big breasted lady in a low cut shirt was in view (but not within HEARING), but I've never heard them put down a woman because of small breasts. I have no idea what their preferences regarding color or size of vulva is, because we don't discuss such things.
> 
> Just from talking to friends and reading here, it seems like women are a bit more chatty with their friends about sex and the attributes of their various lovers. Honestly, I have never discussed the various physical traits of any girl I've dated with any friend of mine. It just never comes up. In fact, I don't recall ever discussing how good or bad she was in bed either. Again, it's just not a discussion topic.
> 
> Have there been discussions about sex? Sure, but mostly of the "What celebrity would you want to have sex with?" variety, never anything too personal.


Higher class? LOL!

I'm not talking about my friends. I'm talking about what I've observed, and things I've heard from friends of mine faced with decisions about cosmetic surgery. Oh and from reading this thread, since there were several guys on here that made it abundantly clear that such things were deal-breakers for them. 

But you may be on to something. Donald Trump is a billionaire, but he's pretty low class if you ask me.


----------



## TX-SC

wild jade said:


> Higher class? LOL!
> 
> I'm not talking about my friends. I'm talking about what I've observed, and things I've heard from friends of mine faced with decisions about cosmetic surgery. Oh and from reading this thread, since there were several guys on here that made it abundantly clear that such things were deal-breakers for them.
> 
> But you may be on to something. Donald Trump is a billionaire, but he's pretty low class if you ask me.


I said "higher grade" not "higher class" and yes there is a BIG difference between the two.


----------



## wild jade

TX-SC said:


> I said "higher grade" not "higher class" and yes there is a BIG difference between the two.


Oh, yes, you did. My bad reading skills!

I have to ask though: I'm assuming that you would still want to date, have sex with, or marry a woman who had fake breasts? That it wouldn't stop you from pursuing her?


----------



## TX-SC

wild jade said:


> Oh, yes, you did. My bad reading skills!
> 
> I have to ask though: I'm assuming that you would still want to date, have sex with, or marry a woman who had fake breasts? That it wouldn't stop you from pursuing her?


It would not. I am okay with it, just not my preference. I dated a woman for a year that had a dragon tattoo that covered 3/4 of her torso. Not a big deal, just not my preference overall.


----------



## uhtred

I'd say that "high class" has nothing to do with money......




wild jade said:


> Higher class? LOL!
> 
> I'm not talking about my friends. I'm talking about what I've observed, and things I've heard from friends of mine faced with decisions about cosmetic surgery. Oh and from reading this thread, since there were several guys on here that made it abundantly clear that such things were deal-breakers for them.
> 
> But you may be on to something. Donald Trump is a billionaire, but he's pretty low class if you ask me.


----------



## Middle of Everything

wild jade said:


> Oh, yes, you did. My bad reading skills!
> 
> I have to ask though: I'm assuming that you would still want to date, have sex with, or marry a woman who had fake breasts? That it wouldn't stop you from pursuing her?


Answering for myself and not TX-SC, but that would depend.

Why did she get them? How big are they? (too big is just plain gross)

I wouldnt write off a woman just for fake breasts. If it were part of a cliche that most think of, yeah I likely wouldnt be interested in a shallow Barbie type woman like that. 

A woman who was barely A and simply wanted some Bs? I could understand the societal and peer pressures that might make someone go down this road. I could see myself date someone like that.

Back to you TX-SC.


----------



## uhtred

I think that for most people there are "preferences" and "deal breakers". Its quite possible to prefer A to B, but still be happy with B if other things are great. Yet "C" might still be unacceptable no matter what. 

For instance wrong gender is a deal-breaker. No matter how nice someone was, I wouldn't want to date them if they were male. 

OTOH I prefer medium to slightly small breasts but might happily date a large breasted woman if other things were good. 





wild jade said:


> Oh, yes, you did. My bad reading skills!
> 
> I have to ask though: I'm assuming that you would still want to date, have sex with, or marry a woman who had fake breasts? That it wouldn't stop you from pursuing her?


----------



## Handy

wild jade, (and any other woman or man) the negative comments "I" personally hear about women concerns being way over weight (and this applies to other men too) someone that is bossy, someone that is high maintenance, someone that wants lots of things and lots of attention but doesn't want to put much into the relationship, and someone that is often not satisfied.


----------



## TX-SC

Handy said:


> wild jade, (and any other woman or man) the negative comments "I" personally hear about women concerns being way over weight (and this applies to other men too) someone that is bossy, someone that is high maintenance, someone that wants lots of things and lots of attention but doesn't want to put much into the relationship, and someone that is often not satisfied.


Agreed. I have heard a few disparaging remarks along those lines, but never anything about her breasts or vulva.


----------



## wild jade

I guess men are just more willing to express their dissatisfaction about these things to their partners -- rather than losing face with their male friends?

REVEALED: More than half men think partner should have plastic surgery | UK | News | Express.co.uk.

I suspect part of the disconnect is also that women are probably more likely to notice the disparaging comments because they are aimed at us. There were a few right here on this thread admitting to these things being deal-breakers, but yet others still claiming that they have "never heard" such a thing.

Disclosure: I have often heard men disparaging breasts that exactly match my breast size and shape, here on TAM, on random internet sites, out and about in the real world. No doubt in my mind that this is a deal-breaker for a number of men.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

wild jade said:


> I guess men are just more willing to express their dissatisfaction about these things to their partners -- rather than losing face with their male friends?
> 
> REVEALED: More than half men think partner should have plastic surgery | UK | News | Express.co.uk.
> 
> I suspect part of the disconnect is also that women are probably more likely to notice the disparaging comments because they are aimed at us. There were a few right here on this thread admitting to these things being deal-breakers, but yet others still claiming that they have "never heard" such a thing.
> 
> Disclosure: I have often heard men disparaging breasts that exactly match my breast size and shape, here on TAM, on random internet sites, out and about in the real world. No doubt in my mind that this is a deal-breaker for a number of men.


All my friends must be in the other 45% then--either that or they're keeping this little wish completely secret and lying out loud--my guys all like their wives exactly as they are, don't even want dyed hair, let alone a surgical procedure.


----------



## wild jade

I'll add that there's a guy here on TAM who called off his wedding because his gf said she wanted a tattoo.


----------



## wild jade

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> All my friends must be in the other 45% then--either that or they're keeping this little wish completely secret and lying out loud--my guys all like their wives exactly as they are, don't even want dyed hair, let alone a surgical procedure.


I would never go out with a guy who wanted me to get plastic surgery. That would by my deal-breaker.

But sadly, I have known women to get new breasts or other procedures because they were pressured to by their partners.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

wild jade said:


> I would never go out with a guy who wanted me to get plastic surgery. That would by my deal-breaker.
> 
> But sadly, I have known women to get new breasts or other procedures because they were pressured to by their partners.


That is sad. 

This may sound horribly judgmental, but a woman having done that would probably be a deal breaker for me. Both because I find artificial modifications to the natural being to be unattractive, and also because I can only see myself with a woman who is strong enough to accept herself as she is and to not let someone else so influence such major decisions in her life. I once dated a woman who would quite literally do anything for me. It never would have worked.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

wild jade said:


> I'll add that there's a guy here on TAM who called off his wedding because his gf said she wanted a tattoo.


That brings us back to the difference to an inherent, natural attribute, and what someone _does_. Two very different things.


----------



## TX-SC

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> That brings us back to the difference to an inherent, natural attribute, and what someone _does_. Two very different things.


Agreed, getting a tattoo or piercings has nothing to do with natural physical looks. It's something a person does as a personal desire. I see this similarly to breast augmentation. I would never not date someone over it, but I would question why they felt the need to do it in the first place. Do they have low self esteem? Did they do it on their own or because a partner asked them too? Are they seeking validation and acceptance?

I get what Jade is saying. Yes, I have read of a guy rejecting a mate based on things she chose to do to herself. But again, it's an augmentation of the natural, so I can understand that too.

As for guys refusing to date a woman with a certain boob size or labia size, etc. I'm still not convinced it's THAT common.


----------



## Handy

* Wild Jade
I have often heard men disparaging breasts that exactly match my breast size and shape, here on TAM, on random internet sites, out and about in the real world. No doubt in my mind that this is a deal-breaker for a number of men. *

First off small, medium or slightly large is GOOD with me. I don't know anyone that rejected or said anything negative about breast size.

I will say breast so big that they look uncomfortable to own get me feeling sympathy for the woman because I read a few too many stories about back problems and bra straps cutting to the woman's shoulders. I had lots of back issues and pain so I know what is like. I would encourage any woman on the large size to get a reduction IF she had any problems related to breast size. I don't like to see people in pain or to suffer.

I am in a senior yoga class and some of the instructors are thin and have XXlarge fried egg breast size. It looks OK/good to me. What is important is how the instructors relate to the class.

There are women in the exercise facility that are pencil thin. To me they look like rock climbers from the exercises they do, such as a lot of arm work where they lift them self by their arms/hands another 20kg to 30kg of weight on a belt around their waist. To me they are way out of my league but they are HOT looking, again with breasts a little larger than a xxlarge fried egg pasted to their chest. I wouldn't encourage either of these women to get breast implants if I was in a relationship with any of them.

Another thing to think about is breast cancer. Yea, having breast cancer in the family influenced me to think "breasts can be a problem" so why all the messages about wanting some specific size, just wish for no problems as a woman ages. I suppose with breast enlargements any small cancers MIGHT be more difficult to detect at an early stage when most breast cancers can be successfully treated. It is the late stage that causes women to die. Boobs can be ticking time bombs, so get them checked regularly.

I might agree with the UK results if they were based on young men and women under 25. If someone older pushed for larger breasts he is still mentally under 25 or 30.

My opinion is you got what you got,be happy and make the best of it. This goes for men and women. Us older dudes just want a happy partner that really likes us.

As far as tattoos, I don't care for them on men or women. If a woman or man has them I am OK. I don't like ear rings or other piercings on men. A single pierce on women's ears is OK. More on other parts of her body isn't something I go for. I am from an place and time when only really weird people had tattoos and multiple piercings.

If you have these items, I can self-sooth and we can get along.

Hair dye and light make up is what I prefer but I go along with more if someone thinks that is what THEY need to be happy.


----------



## CuddleBug

TX-SC said:


> The "size" post is interesting and it seems to me that women appear to be more picky than men when it comes to various attributes. Have any of the men here ever either broken up with, or refused to date, a woman because of a physical attribute other than weight or facial features (looks)? By this I mean how big or firm her breasts are, or how her vulva looks? In other words, have you ever seen a woman's vagina or breasts and said "nope, this is a one and done situation."
> 
> In my readings on here, most men are saying they think all vulva/breasts are awesome. Just kind of interested if these physical aspects actually are important to men in general?
> 
> I have had sex with only 20 women. I've made out with a few more. Of those, I've never been turned off by a woman's body. I have been with a couple that because of weight loss had less than firm breasts. I've been with a couple that were perhaps not my preference in how their vulva looked, but I never would consider dumping them or not dating them for that. I'm just wondering if men are really less picky than women in this regard?
> 
> You don't need to get specific in what your preferences are. I'm just wondering how many men here would or have broken up or not dated someone over their genitalia or breasts? I'm thinking that number would be fairly low, but I may be wrong.




Nope. Never been turned off by a woman unless she's obese and clearly not in decent shape.


I don't care what breast or bum sizes are, what hair style or color, average height or tall, clothes and shoes, none of that matters to me. It's does she take care of what she has and looks good for what she has been dealt.


----------



## Personal

wild jade said:


> I would never go out with a guy who wanted me to get plastic surgery. That would by my deal-breaker.
> 
> But sadly, I have known women to get new breasts or other procedures because they were pressured to by their partners.


I have preferences, yet my preferences cover a wide range of people, to the point I don't have a list of preferences, I just know what I am and am not attracted to when I encounter it. Whether it is physical, aesthetic, personality, intellectual, behavioural and or social.

The only negative things I have expressed is in one instance my wife had a pixie cut years ago and I said I didn't like it. Plus on occasion when asked about clothing I have said it sux when I think it does. That said all other things aside, I have only remarked on things that can be changed, rather than things that can't and that includes plastic surgery which in my view an extreme measure.

If I choose to be with someone I have chosen to be with them, because I find them aesthetically attractive and all the rest. If I thought a woman was not all that I would not choose to maintain a sexual relationship with her at all. I don't see any point in telling anyone they physically suck aesthetically whether I choose to be in any kind of relationship with them or even choose to have nothing to do with them.

If a woman finds themselves with a sexual partner who thinks their boobs suck, they would do well to dump them rather than get plastic surgery to assuage their desires.

Incidentally my wife has had plastic surgery to repair her face and to help her breath properly, after she and two others demolished a speeding car with their bodies. As a consequence of that she sports a small and not very discernible scar on her face, yet I think she looks great even with that scar which most people don't notice. For example it was a revelation to our 14 year old daughter a few days ago when my wife pointed out her scar.

I think there is nothing wrong with men and women having their preferences and choosing accordingly (without being a Richard about it). That said I think it is extremely poor form for men and women to choose otherwise, then complain about it and or want their partners to go under a knife in order to conform to their ideal.


----------



## AVR1962

Thanks guys, it really helps to hear what you all have said. Makes me feel a bit bit better about what guys might are thinking. I get alot of compliments but I just don't know how much is sincere.


----------



## uhtred

Probably a lot is is sincere. While I know that some men are trapped in the idea that there is a single "ideal" female form, I think a lot of men have realized that there are many forms of beauty. This isn't some watered-down "everyone is beautiful" claim, but instead recognizing the value of variety. There isn't a "most beautiful" flower, or a "best tasting" food, or a "best" piece of music. 






AVR1962 said:


> Thanks guys, it really helps to hear what you all have said. Makes me feel a bit bit better about what guys might are thinking. I get alot of compliments but I just don't know how much is sincere.


----------



## wild jade

Personal said:


> I have preferences, yet my preferences cover a wide range of people, to the point I don't have a list of preferences, I just know what I am and am not attracted to when I encounter it. Whether it is physical, aesthetic, personality, intellectual, behavioural and or social.
> 
> The only negative things I have expressed is in one instance my wife had a pixie cut years ago and I said I didn't like it. Plus on occasion when asked about clothing I have said it sux when I think it does. That said all other things aside, I have only remarked on things that can be changed, rather than things that can't and that includes plastic surgery which in my view an extreme measure.
> 
> *If I choose to be with someone I have chosen to be with them, because I find them aesthetically attractive and all the rest. **If I thought a woman was not all that I would not choose to maintain a sexual relationship with her at all.* I don't see any point in telling anyone they physically suck aesthetically whether I choose to be in any kind of relationship with them or even choose to have nothing to do with them.
> 
> If a woman finds themselves with a sexual partner who thinks their boobs suck, they would do well to dump them rather than get plastic surgery to assuage their desires.
> 
> Incidentally my wife has had plastic surgery to repair her face and to help her breath properly, after she and two others demolished a speeding car with their bodies. As a consequence of that she sports a small and not very discernible scar on her face, yet I think she looks great even with that scar which most people don't notice. For example it was a revelation to our 14 year old daughter a few days ago when my wife pointed out her scar.
> 
> I think there is nothing wrong with men and women having their preferences and choosing accordingly (without being a Richard about it). That said I think it is extremely poor form for men and women to choose otherwise, then complain about it and or want their partners to go under a knife in order to conform to their ideal.


I agree completely. Very poor form to choose someone and then complain about how they look or push them to be different. Of course, something being poor form doesn't stop people from doing it. Notice, for example, that when there's talk of a woman being too flat or too huge that this can be "fixed". So even when guys are talking about how much they love breasts, they draw their limits, and don't mind suggesting that women "improve" their bodies. 

What you're saying in the bold is an example of what I would see as being picky. If you have preferences, if you wouldn't go out with someone or stay with someone because of their physical attributes, then you are also picky.

I get what many of the guys on this thread are saying, that they like variety, that there is no one form of beauty. But the question was whether women were pickier than men, and at least IMHO, there's no getting around that the answer is that both can be very picky. We choose mates all the time based on physical attributes, we dump them when they don't measure up, and we don't even look at those that don't meet our standards. Those preferences ARE pickiness.


----------



## GusPolinski

TX-SC said:


> That could be. I honestly have no idea. I have never heard it in gym locker rooms, or with any of my friends, so I have no real way of knowing if that's a cultural or social thing.


People tend to discuss such things with like-minded people.


----------



## MAJDEATH

Ugly toes are a deal-breaker for a LTR.


----------



## Holdingontoit

Have not read the entire thread but I will candidly admit: I broke up with a gf because she had small breasts. Joke was on me. Married large breasted woman. She never let me play with them. I stayed out of sense of duty. She got cancer and had double mastectomy. Now I am married to small breasted woman and I still don't get to play with them.

So guys, don't judge based on breast size. God is watching.


----------



## bandit.45

katiecrna said:


> What about a flat chested women?


They have more sensitive nipples. I like 'em. :grin2:


----------



## bandit.45

A woman with a body type like Christina Hendricks ticks all my boxes.


----------



## RandomDude

One word:










Legs!

For me, a woman can be bare-chested, flat butt, but if she's got the legs (and, face is easy on the eye), then it's a YES! 

But if she doesn't have the legs, even if she's got big TnA, then... no


----------



## Mr The Other

wild jade said:


> I guess men are just more willing to express their dissatisfaction about these things to their partners -- rather than losing face with their male friends?
> 
> REVEALED: More than half men think partner should have plastic surgery | UK | News | Express.co.uk.
> 
> I suspect part of the disconnect is also that women are probably more likely to notice the disparaging comments because they are aimed at us. There were a few right here on this thread admitting to these things being deal-breakers, but yet others still claiming that they have "never heard" such a thing.
> 
> Disclosure: I have often heard men disparaging breasts that exactly match my breast size and shape, here on TAM, on random internet sites, out and about in the real world. No doubt in my mind that this is a deal-breaker for a number of men.


The Express is barely a step up from the National Enquirer. 

I have also seen the same study about housework presented in the UK as British women being the most harddone by in Europe then presented in Denmark as British women being by far the laziest.


----------



## 482

Yes. I have seen some bad tits in my life. Total turn off. Small or super saggy, horrible. Also I have been a bit to close to some vaginas I would not want to visit again. Guess its hard to explain why but I know some women have it and some do not, for me anyway. When they do have it I could spend the day thinking about touching their body, when they don't I just want to run.


----------



## Middle of Everything

Huh, Its kinda like the d!ck threads. 100 women can say its not that big of a deal, it doesnt have to be a horse ****. Then one can come along and ruin all of that with one post.

Same applies here.


----------



## wild jade

Mr The Other said:


> The Express is barely a step up from the National Enquirer.
> 
> I have also seen the same study about housework presented in the UK as British women being the most harddone by in Europe then presented in Denmark as British women being by far the laziest.


Agreed, it's not a terribly compelling source. I just picked it because it illustrates something that I've encountered, that some women struggle with, and that despite what a handful of people say here, is actually something that happens.


----------



## wild jade

Middle of Everything said:


> Huh, Its kinda like the d!ck threads. 100 women can say its not that big of a deal, it doesnt have to be a horse ****. Then one can come along and ruin all of that with one post.
> 
> Same applies here.


Err, there have been quite a few posts on this thread saying exactly the same thing. Why discount it, just because you don't feel the same way?


----------



## Middle of Everything

wild jade said:


> Err, there have been quite a few posts on this thread saying exactly the same thing. Why discount it, just because you don't feel the same way?


Maybe I was lazy in my perusal of this thread, but I generally took from it that while guys have "preferences" they generally dont hold to them as absolute deal breakers. 

My post was in reference to 482's post. And I dont feel most men think or act as he does.


----------



## wild jade

Middle of Everything said:


> Maybe I was lazy in my perusal of this thread, but I generally took from it that while guys have "preferences" they generally dont hold to them as absolute deal breakers.
> 
> My post was in reference to 482's post. And I dont feel most men think or act as he does.


Quite a few guys have expressed their deal-breakers here, not just 482. 

And quite a few guys mentioned that they would've screened by attractiveness (including breast size!) long before the clothes came off.

Maybe you've just been really lucky/smart and managed to screen successfully before getting to sex?


----------



## uhtred

Its really difficult to get statistics since the posters here are nothing like a random sampling. I'm not sure we can get beyond "some men care about particular physical attributes, some don't". I'm guessing that there are a significant number of each.


"Screening" may in some cases be too strong a word. There are women I find attractive (quite a lot actually) and there are some I find unattractive. If I were dating, if I were in a situation with no other information, I would approach the women that I found attractive - why not. That doesn't mean that if I had some other reason to be interested in one of the less attractive (to me) women, I wouldn't want to meet her. Of course there is some set of women who are sufficiently unattractive to me that I would not want a romantic relationship with them. 

That is not to say that some men don't have very specific requirements for breast size, hair color, height etc. Its just that I don't. 









wild jade said:


> Quite a few guys have expressed their deal-breakers here, not just 482.
> 
> And quite a few guys mentioned that they would've screened by attractiveness (including breast size!) long before the clothes came off.
> 
> Maybe you've just been really lucky/smart and managed to screen successfully before getting to sex?


----------



## 482

I may come off a bit crass, if that’s the case I apologize. I just know what I find attractive and put a high value on that in my relationships. I learned that there is a lot more to attractiveness than just a shallow set of standards. Reading the married mans sex life primer and many other books on this topic I realized biology plays a huge role in what we find attractive. This was kind of an eye opener. Also I just love a relationship when the attraction is so high on both ends it takes next to nothing and you’re ripping each other’s clothes off.


----------



## VladDracul

Mr The Other said:


> The Express is barely a step up from the National Enquirer.
> 
> British women being by far the laziest.



I'd argue with that. My first wife wasn't British at all.

With that, I don't have a deal breaker albeit I'm least attracted to skinny women.


----------



## Mr The Other

VladDracul said:


> I'd argue with that. My first wife wasn't British at all.
> 
> With that, I don't have a deal breaker albeit I'm least attracted to skinny women.


Now! With the selective quoting you have certainly changed what I am said.

I like slim women too.


----------



## marriageontherocks2

I like breasts and legs/feet. I don't really care about the size of the breasts, but if they're floppy or saggy it's a real turn off. That's not to say I would end a long term relationship if they became saggy over time, but starting a new relationship I would probably be apt to look for a woman with more firm and perky boobs rather than pancakes (maybe a runner or something). Really ugly feet would probably be a deal breaker for me too.

As far as vaginas, they all kind of look the same, it's not really something that ever visually turned me on. they feel great, fun to play with, but overall they're rather utilitarian. Maybe a nasty roast beef vagina would be a turn off, but a nicer looking one isn't really a turn-on per se'.

Can't deal with fat either, total turn-off and deal breaker.


----------

