# Porn and women



## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

I am 54 and have been into some sort of porn since puberty. It is NOT an obsession for me. In fact, alone, I find it boring. I do try to periodically introduce porn in the bedroom with my wife. Last night before sex my wife and I had a candid talk about porn. Apparently it does absolutely nothing for my wife. She does not mind when it's on but has zero desire to watch. She is just into me and has no interest in looking at others having sex. She also stated that watching actually turns her off.

As a man, this makes no sense to me. If possible, I would like to try and understand the female mind in regards to porn. I know men are more visual than women, but I read in many places that some women like porn as much or even more than men do.

I have tried different types of porn and she says none of it gets her attention. 

How does a women get into porn?
Is it an acquired taste or not?
Does your conscience get in the way? If so, why?

Should I just drop it or is it worth pursuing to enhance our sex?

BTW: It is true that I only watch the stuff for a couple minutes before having sex, and that's it. It kind of gets my motor running but don't need it to keep going, if that makes any sense.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
There is a very wide variety of "porn" ranging from what OliviaG describes as scenes in "good" movies, to extremely basic hardcore. What people find erotic varies a lot. There are probably some who would not enjoy any sort of erotic scene. Many others may find erotic scenes only interesting if they have been well introduced to the characters.

Personally, even as a guy, I find pure hardcore porn completely boring. 

Does your wife enjoy any erotic material? Its quite possible that the doesn't. 

I don't see any reason at all to push this. For me my wife is quite arousing enough as she is. Porn is only interesting if she is not around.


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## OpenWindows (Dec 25, 2015)

I would rather read it than watch it!

The visual stuff isn't enough like the kind of sex I enjoy... It looks kind of brutal and not very considerate of the woman, so it's hard for me to get into it mentally and imagine myself in her place. In porn, the guy is often going things I don't personally enjoy, or at least in a way I wouldn't enjoy.

When I read it, I can picture the situation in a way that turns me on more, and easily insert myself and my boyfriend into the scene.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Personally, porn does nothing for me. I'm not against it necessarily, but neither am I for it.

As a matter of fact, the people in the films come across as quite gross to me... there's a real "ick" factor for me watching people who have been with dozens and hundreds of other people . No thanks...

But it doesn't bother me at all if others want to watch it.

Just my 2 cents...


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

You want to know what really turns my wife on, watching our wedding video :grin2:. This turns me on as well only because I know as soon as I put the video on I am going to get jumped when it is done lol

My wife and I have never watched porn together. Actually, not sure if you want to classify as porn, we have watched a few instructional videos way back, but nothing involving a plumber, pizza delivery guy, and/or a school teacher. IDK, I honestly see no reason to watch porn with my wife, we have never had an issue getting each other turned on or ready for action, so I don't see what purpose it would serve. Plus, with everything now is HD, there is a lot of scary stuff out there lol.

Knowing my wife, she would get much more out of reading a romantic/steamy novel (such as 50 shades which I did reap the benefits from) in part b/c it lets her control the images/imagination vs a bunch of random strangers on the TV.

Plus, my wife knows all she needs to do is walk around in her undies, that is all the porn I need


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

If she's not into porn, accept that, and either remove it from use while the two of you have sex or accept that it does nothing for her.

Don't try to force something that isn't there. Move on to something else that works for both of you.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

I think a lot of women, myself included, are turned off by porn - because it's not very realistic and it's hard for us to imagine what's happening on screen as what could happen in real life...

For example, A lot of main stream porn is for men. You see women, mainly fake, instantly getting turned on by a guy who (half of the time) isn't even attractive, he's just there to show his penis. So, she is insta wet by the sight of him (which just doesn't happen for many women). Then, you see something along the lines of MAYBE him going down on her for all of 3 seconds (of what looks like someone trying to eat out of a dog bowl) before she moves to giving him a 30 min long BJ - that many times just looks uncomfortable for the woman with him pulling her head so far into him that she squints, chokes, or gags while throwing some very obviously fake moans in the mix. 

After that, it's on to the sex. As soon as he dips his wick in there, she is halfway to orgasm. Doesn't happen like that in real life. The moans remain the same throughout the entire session, sometimes increasing during a fake orgasm, but they are constant. To some women, these "moans" are incredibly annoying because they are so obviously fake. Now, I do make some noise with my H, but I sure as hell don't go screaming the second he puts it in, unless of course, it's painful (which hasn't happened).

Some porns include dirty talk to include, sl*t, wh*re, etc. Many women find these words degrading for obvious reasons.

A lot of porn ends with a guy shooting his load into her face or mouth. If face, that's not something that turns a lot of women on. It gets in your eyes, your hair, etc. It's just not fun. Once, my H got it up my nose....It burned and I wanted to slap the sh*t out of him. Complete turn off. If in the mouth, that's usually not a big deal, except in the porn where she slobbers it out of her mouth, gargles it, or they zoom in on her swishing it around her in mouth. Cum is okay to swallow, but I don't know a woman alive that finds it so delicious that she is playing with it in her mouth like mouthwash. 


Many women can get into porn easier if it's more like what they would like personally. So, if a woman is into hardcore stuff, then she will get into the hardcore - get straight to it- porn. Those who prefer porn geared mainly toward women will get turned on to those films. 

For some women in real life, you kind of have to build up to sex. 

There is a site somewhere, I can't even remember now as porn hasn't been in this house for a while...but it had a female section. Many of the videos in that section were very sensual. It had the man being, I don't know how to describe it,....Alpha, but gentle? I don't know. In many of them the couple would kiss, touch, rub, etc, then move on to sliding clothes off, touching some more before moving to oral, before moving to sex. As a woman, I had time to get into what I was seeing before they were humping away. It felt like the woman was enjoying herself. It looked like something I would enjoy having done to me. So, I was obviously into it. My H was bored to death, I'm sure. But for me, it was amazing to watch. 

A lot of porn is just geared towards entertaining men, and honestly, it's annoying to a lot of women because it's just so damn unrealistic. 

Either way, if you're trying to get your W to "get into" porn, you can't. She either likes it or she doesn't.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

i know you're looking for women answers, and i'd be very interesting to know their opinions too, but i'll chime in anyway.

i don't do hard core porn. the little iv'e seen of it, it's actually way more funny than sexy. 
my buddy moved overseas and endowed his entire huge (2 large boxes) of porn collection to me.
i watched a few of them and it just wasn't anything exciting at all. i had to laugh at most of it.
granted, it was older and not cutting edge like they probably make today.
i really don't get why people are turned on, but then again maybe i haven't seen enough of it and don't want to.
don't want to because too many stories of guys getting addicted. sure, many don't, but i think too many do.

i do like occasional looking at nekkid women to get my blood flowing. nekkkid in the sense of just there not having sex.
i don't want to see some guys unit even if it's interacting with some gorgeous babe.
interesting thing is, i find looking at 'normal' women with 'imperfect' bodies (lets call them mom-bods) is much more sexy than 
sculpted victoria secret models.

more to the question OP, my wife hates porn and thinks it's sick.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Thank you all for your answers. All of them are very interesting!
I guess I'm your average thick headed male that thinks just because I like it, my wife should too. I guess there is something twisted in me that gets excited at watching something "taboo" and even more so if I think my wife is liking it too.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

peacem said:


> For me, a lot of porn does nothing for me and sometimes it can even be a turn off. Then sometimes I come across something that is absolutely arousing. We had a similar conversation the other night when I described looking at 10 films and only 1 did anything for me. My husband shook his head as most films showing female nudity will do something for him.
> 
> Basically I do not like a film that is very anatomical or overly graphic. I like a film to be erotic with some sort of build up (a film that leaps straight into sex would not do it for me). I usually find films with men in it off putting and a little threatening (I'm heterosexual). I also find the noises in porn off putting - whereas my H likes the sound on. Anything that so much as hints at someone being uncomfortable, upset, demeaned, or treated badly - even if just acted out - is a big turn off.
> 
> *I do get hugely turned on watching my H watching porn. If we watch it together I am watching him more than the film*.


This is VERY interesting!
Why does it turn you on to watch your husband watch porn ??

I would be cool with this too and maybe that's all I really want.
I never thought of it this way.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

jorgegene said:


> interesting thing is, i find looking at 'normal' women with 'imperfect' bodies (lets call them mom-bods) is much more sexy than
> sculpted victoria secret models.


So much truth here ...


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

OliviaG said:


> One other angle that you may or may not have thought of: for me, it would bother me if my husband felt the need to look at porn to get himself in the mood to have sex with me - it would really hurt. Maybe I'm too sensitive, I don't know. But you might want to make sure that your wife doesn't feel the same, @UMP . She may not be honest about it if you ask her because she might feel she is being unreasonable if she asks you not to watch it, especially if you just watch it for a few minutes. Reactions like mine are not logical, it is some kind of primitive emotional reaction, I guess. No matter how much I tried to tell myself that H looking at porn to "get his motor running" was absolutely reasonable and not about my shortcomings (in his eyes), it would still hurt. A lot.


I actually don't see your reaction as illogical. I wouldn't take it well if my wife needed to watch porn in order to get turned on, and I would guess many people would feel the same way.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

UMP said:


> How does a women get into porn?
> Is it an acquired taste or not?
> Does your conscience get in the way? If so, why?
> 
> ...


I stumbled across it by accident when I was babysitting as a teenager. The parents had playboy mags in their bathroom. (Just a reminder as a preface-I was born and raised a staunch Mormon).

Then, later, at 17, my gay guy friends got me some lesbian porn mags and a vibrator as a joke for my birthday. Looked at the mags, but fell IN LOVE with the vibrator. 

Then I had my first 'adult' relationship. My then-BF was hard core into porn. I was okay w/it until I would wake up in the middle of the night with him watching it and pleasuring himself instead of me. Dumped him (over other issues-he cheated) and then I realized, HEY! I can watch porn if I wanna!

I watch it from time to time. My BF and I watch it together. I'm pretty damn sure my BF watches it by himself. None of this bothers me. At all.

I've recently found I really enjoy literotica, too.

If you and your wife have already had an honest and open discussion about it and she's not having it, don't force it. If you do, there's bound to be resentment on her end.

PS-I get what you mean re: not watching the entire thing. I don't, either. Come on, it's not like it'll be an oscar-worthy endeavor.:grin2:


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

I doubt any man or woman would want to hear their partner telling them they needed to watch porn to get their motor running. My 2 cents OP is your wife hates that then the porn itself.


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

For the first few years of our marriage, my wife and I watched porn. My wife was a virgin and learned by watching porn. I just liked to get aroused and than have sex with my wife afterwards. One night our girlfriend was watching porn for the first time and there was an oral sex scene where the guy ejaculated into the woman's mouth. Our girlfriend gagged and ran into the bathroom to get sick. I never saw that happen to anyone else. Oral sex was not her thing for the rest of the time she lived with us. 

It really is the fact that men are more visually stimulated that women in general are not into watching porn. After my wife and I started swinging, we did not need to watch porn anymore. We were living it and the memories of what we did a week ago kept us horny for many weeks thereafter.

My wife was more into porn when she was first becoming aware that she is bisexual. It was a way to see women with women. After she did the real thing she no longer watched porn and still does not. She is OK with me watching it. To tell the truth I find porn boring most times. It is staged and most women are not covered in tattoos and piercings. Most women do not wear high heel shoes with no signs of wear, into bed. Most women are not constantly swiping their hair from in front of their face or staring into the camera. I have not found much to arouse me anymore so I mostly post here and on other websites to kill some time. It makes me feel like I am giving back.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

peacem said:


> You may not like the answer. I often fantasize that my husband is having sex with other people. Because I don't ever fantasize about people we know (I would find that weird) I imagine someone in a porn film. If I know he was really turned on by someone in a film it makes my orgasm quicker as it seems more real.
> 
> For years I never really felt my husband found me sexually attractive, so to fantasize about the two of us was not particularly real, I would substitute myself for a surrogate 'ideal'. Before anyone says anything I know it is weird. He also fantasizes about me and other people both male and female so I don't think it is that different to what he does. The idea of us actually having sex with other people makes me heave but at the same time it needs to be vaguely realistic. For instance I will fantasize about him having sex with someone at work but the woman might be from the porn film and they will be doing a similar act. As I write this I know it sounds like I am a sexual deviant....and it used to make me feel very ashamed, but now I just go with it :surprise:.


I don't think that's strange at all. In fact, that's kind of how my mind works too. It's like having a threesome, but only in your mind. Not as much emotional mess this way


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

UMP, porn enhances your sex life, not hers.

Most mainstream porn is about men taking and not giving and is geared towards mens pleasure. 

The fact that you think it should be a turn on for her is an example of porn's effects. .... the women pretend to like it so why wouldn't your wife like it? If you watched porn and the women hated it you likely wouldn't expect your wife to like it.

Porn is mostly made for men, not women. Bringing porn into the bedroom only benefits you. 

Your wife might be ok with that to some degree because in marriage we all do things to make our partner happy. 

But consider this: if your wife likes knitting should you also like it? Why wouldn't you like it if she does? Isn't it reasonable for you to like everything she does, no matter what you get out of it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

richie33 said:


> I doubt any man or woman would want to hear their partner telling them they needed to watch porn to get their motor running. My 2 cents OP is your wife hates that then the porn itself.


She told me to go ahead and watch it by myself BEFORE we have sex. She is 100% ok with that and actually suggested it.
I would rather watch is WITH her.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> Porn is mostly made for men, not women. Bringing porn into the bedroom only benefits you.


Couldn't agree more.

The men in the porn flicks are totally... gross! Gangly, scrawny dudes with huge wangs. I honestly cannot think of a bigger turnoff.

The women (admittedly) look better... until you Google one of these sites ---> "Porn stars without makeup"... then you realize that they are just hard-for-the road, worn down, REGULAR women who are prostituting their bodies for cash .

82 pictures of Porn Stars Without Makeup

Most of them are wearing boatloads of makeup, false eyelashes, fake nails, and voluminous hair extensions. 

The sad thing is, these women are all beautiful in their own way. THEY just don't realize it...

It's all very degrading to women. No matter which way you slice it.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

UMP said:


> She told me to go ahead and watch it by myself BEFORE we have sex. She is 100% ok with that and actually suggested it.
> I would rather watch is WITH her.


I am not saying you have done anything wrong. She has given her blessings. It's on her.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

It comes down to the fact that women aren't visually simulated the way men are.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

jb02157 said:


> It comes down to the fact that women aren't visually simulated the way men are.


There are times where I wish this were true.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

jb02157 said:


> It comes down to the fact that women aren't visually simulated the way men are.


I COMPLETELY disagree with this statement. This is such a stereotypical comment and is NOT true for all women. I'm so *visually stimulated* by my sexy, hunky SO (in real life as well as mental images when he's gone) that I am bouncing off the walls just thinking about him...

:bounce: (What time are you coming home, Baby???!!!)


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

My first wife and I used to watch erotic massage videos. I was never a porn guy, but these videos were done by real life married couples and were sensuous as well as softcore. They seemed more real to me, since the couples were actually in love with each other. We could watch and follow the live instruction, see the demonstrations and perform them on each other. That worked out well for us. Didn't feel dirty at all. Just a thought.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> UMP, porn enhances your sex life, not hers.
> 
> Most mainstream porn is about men taking and not giving and is geared towards mens pleasure.
> 
> ...


I completely understand what you say. I actually agree with you.
However, it does not stop my devious mind from wanting.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

UMP said:


> I completely understand what you say. I actually agree with you.
> However, it does not stop my devious mind from wanting.


Fair enough, we all want stuff.

As long as we respect our partners feelings on the matter we can want what we want


What if she wants another dude?

That's ok as long as your feelings on the matter are respected. 

You asked why she wouldn't like it too, but I suspect you already knew the answer.

I've read some of your other posts, you're a smart guy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

woundedwarrior said:


> My first wife and I used to watch erotic massage videos. I was never a porn guy, but these videos were done by real life married couples and were sensuous as well as softcore. They seemed more real to me, since the couples were actually in love with each other. We could watch and follow the live instruction, see the demonstrations and perform them on each other. That worked out well for us. Didn't feel dirty at all. Just a thought.


Agree, ww. Heck, the best love scenes from movies (I'm thinking of Debra Winger and Richard Gere in "An Officer and a Gentleman) would be considered softcore porn. I'm all for that!! Because it includes the EMOTIONAL aspects of sex, not just a voyeuristic intrusion into someone else's bedroom.

Love Scene from "An Officer and A Gentleman"... (you probably have to sign into Google to view this).


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

UMP said:


> How does a women get into porn?
> Is it an acquired taste or not?
> Does your conscience get in the way? If so, why?
> 
> Should I just drop it or is it worth pursuing to enhance our sex?


I "got into porn" as a kid. Found a box of Hustlers, Playboys, Penthouses and a few other mags in a box hidden in the back of the attic. I was a tween and curious, so...

About 5 years later, I ended up at a BF's house and watched some porn with him. I've watched here and there, alone or with a partner, ever since.

I found some porn a turn on, some interesting, and some kinda gross. DH likes some porn that I wasn't fond of. So, I asked him to find his favorite of the type and watched it with him while he explained to me what he found hot about it. That made me see what he was seeing and I started to find it hot, too. 

No, my conscience doesn't twinge when I watch porn.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> Fair enough, we all want stuff.
> 
> As long as we respect our partners feelings on the matter we can want what we want
> 
> ...


Ted Bundy was smart too :grin2:

It's hard to turn off a kink. I think watching porn with my wife is truly a kink that I have. I've been trying to turn that off, but it has proven difficult.

It's like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. I keep trying to shave off the edges so it will fit. I guess many men are like this regarding their kink.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

MJJEAN said:


> I "got into porn" as a kid. Found a box of Hustlers, Playboys, Penthouses and a few other mags in a box hidden in the back of the attic. I was a tween and curious, so...
> 
> About 5 years later, I ended up at a BF's house and watched some porn with him. I've watched here and there, alone or with a partner, ever since.
> 
> ...


I believe that my wife thinks it's morally wrong to watch it.
The way she puts it, "you should be glad I don't want to watch porn." In other words, yes, she could/would get turned on watching it but will not let herself do so. i.e. she is letting me know she is a faithful wife in ALL respects.


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## NorCalMan (Dec 14, 2011)

So much of porn is totally unrealistic. In fact I believe it to be harmful especially for todays young men viewing it. Seeing men with ten inch plus penis can lead to inadequate feelings for a normal sized boy. Most women don't enjoy being pounded for 45 minutes and the average man ejaculates in less than 5 minutes - more potential anxiety. I've had sex with plenty of women and they were satisfied without screaming and being called filthy names. Some of the armature XXX videos are better but not great. My wife enjoys seeing some of the better looking men getting oral sex or more in a realistic setting but the hard core stuff she finds repulsive.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

staarz21 said:


> It had the man being, I don't know how to describe it,....Alpha, but gentle?


Just wanted to say I like the label you use here, staarz.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

NorCalMan said:


> So much of porn is totally unrealistic. In fact I believe it to be harmful especially for todays young men viewing it. Seeing men with ten inch plus penis can lead to inadequate feelings for a normal sized boy. Most women don't enjoy being pounded for 45 minutes and the average man ejaculates in less than 5 minutes - more potential anxiety. I've had sex with plenty of women and they were satisfied without screaming and being called filthy names. Some of the armature XXX videos are better but not great. My wife enjoys seeing some of the better looking men getting oral sex or more in a realistic setting but the hard core stuff she finds repulsive.


What about the young girls today? Guys expect girls to behave like a porn star. I think due to porn, a lot of young men (and women) have a very distorted view of sex. They've most likely been watching porn since the early double digits (hopefully, none watched in the single digits). I feel sorry for girls and boys growing up now with everything that is available for them to look at. Are they supposed to have a realistic view of sex after watching porn for years? I'm sure some can, but, I'm also sure some can't.

I don't care for porn myself, but if my husband wanted to watch it, I would, but it certainly isn't a turn on for me.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

jld said:


> Just wanted to say I like the label you use here, staarz.


I like that too .


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

karole said:


> What about the young girls today? Guys expect girls to behave like a porn star. I think due to porn, a lot of young men (and women) have a very distorted view of sex. They've most likely been watching porn since the early double digits (hopefully, none watched in the single digits). I feel sorry for girls and boys growing up now with everything that is available for them to look at. Are they supposed to have a realistic view of sex after watching porn for years? I'm sure some can, but, I'm also sure some can't.
> 
> I don't care for porn myself, but if my husband wanted to watch it, I would, but it certainly isn't a turn on for me.


It would be interesting to see what percentage of young men vs young women actually watch porn. I do believe that it is a much bigger problem for young men since they make up a larger percentage of the viewership (I am talking more about watching frequently vs just catching a clip out of curiosity).


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

peacem said:


> My husband finds it a huge turn on to watch it together. I honestly believe it has ended his private relationship with porn too - it took away that naughty feeling which used to be part of the appeal. For me I stopped seeing it as a threat because I was part of it and got something from it myself. When we have watched porn together he won't choose it, I have to find one for us, which after years of it making me feel hurt and inadequate, I suddenly felt in control.
> 
> I say if your wife genuinely doesn't mind watching it with you I would just go with it and not worry too much about her arousal - that can come from you. I wish I had done it sooner.


That's exactly what has happened to me. I don't find it very interesting to watch it alone anymore. It's only exciting or I should say more exciting to watch with my wife. To me, sex with my wife is like having a warm piece of fresh blueberry pie. The porn is the vanilla ice cream that makes it taste that much better. It's simply a condiment.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Women generally tend to be able to empathize with the content portrayed in a porn and can easily distinguish that things are not likely genuine. 

If a man were to watch porn through the eyes of a woman, he would probably find himself thinking, "You know with all these different camera angles it had to be rather intrusive to have a large film crew in the middle of all that action with all those bright spotlights pointed right at his wiener. And those positions that allow for the best close up graphics are NOT very stimulating AT ALL, AT ALL!"

I'll admit NO WAY could even I climax with all this going on right beside/underneath/behind me!










Regards, 
Badsanta


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

UMP said:


> Ted Bundy was smart too :grin2:
> 
> It's hard to turn off a kink. I think watching porn with my wife is truly a kink that I have. I've been trying to turn that off, but it has proven difficult.
> 
> It's like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. I keep trying to shave off the edges so it will fit. I guess many men are like this regarding their kink.


Find a new one.

The truly kinky people I know have truly great imaginations and flexibility in their kinks.

Never attach to a specific one.

Who knows? You may let this one go for a few years and your wife might suddenly find she's open to the idea of it now that it's not being pressured on her.

Some ideas off the top of my head:

- make a porn movie starring her. You be the director and cinematographer.
- write her some sexy stories starring you and her.
- read erotica together

Etc.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

badsanta said:


> Regards,
> Badsanta


We've got a boom mic!!! Sorry, Bolt reference for anyone who has seen that movie lol


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Porn is not an issue in our relationship, neither has a problem if the other watches and we sometimes watch together. 

I have never read an erotic novel and prefer the get straight to the point type of porn, no long drawn out storylines, I really don't care about their day or whatever the story is about, just show me the sex.

It is incorrect to say that women are not visual.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Holland said:


> It is incorrect to say that women are not visual.


:iagree:


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

UMP...

I get the impression that you're trying to justify your porn use (which is likely a huge problem for your wife -- even though she doesn't really address it).

You're hoping that the "good ole' boys" (and their women) will tell you is ok even though your wife is NOT turned on by it. Most of the women here have weighed in that it's a HUGE turnoff.

But you can keep deluding yourself that it's all ok. You have stated that porn has been a part of your life since you were a teenager. You've tried to cut it out but you can't.

Do you think you have a problem--as in an addiction? Because you have alluded to the fact that you can't stop. And your wife doesn't like it. At all. But you keep watching it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

UMP said:


> I am 54 and have been into some sort of porn since puberty. It is NOT an obsession for me. In fact, alone, I find it boring. I do try to periodically introduce porn in the bedroom with my wife. Last night before sex my wife and I had a candid talk about porn. Apparently it does absolutely nothing for my wife. She does not mind when it's on but has zero desire to watch. She is just into me and has no interest in looking at others having sex. She also stated that watching actually turns her off.
> 
> As a man, this makes no sense to me. If possible, I would like to try and understand the female mind in regards to porn. I know men are more visual than women, but I read in many places that some women like porn as much or even more than men do.
> 
> ...



I watched a documentary about why women go into porn.

- They love to be the center of attention

- They love sex

- They are the star

- They get paid extremely well


Mrs.CuddleBug isn't into porn either and it doesn't do anything for her.

Depends on the woman. Some women love sex and are wild. Porn adds to this and they like it.

Some woman are more conservative and have sex to please their man, so porn isn't for them.


Since I am HD, all sex toys and porn I'm cool with. Since Mrs.CuddleBug is LD, its not happening,


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

I am HD too. But I don't really think that has anything to do with liking porn or not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lovelyblue (Oct 25, 2013)

Maybe I'm an odd women...I like to watch porn it get me all tingly and a bit excited. In fact I have two favorite porn star that I like watching.

My Ex-bf's never liked it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

jb02157 said:


> It comes down to the fact that women aren't visually simulated the way men are.


Women are visually stimulated by things that simulate women.

Most women are not visually stimulated by porn that is made specifically for men, that shows the men doing just about nothing for the women and that shows women who look plastic faking to enjoy what's going on.

Why would anyone expect that women would like that?


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

good evening
In porn discussions, I see a lot of comments on it being unrealistic, or not aimed at women. It seems to me that there is a enormous variety of porn - and its easy to find almost anything you could possibly imagine (and a lot of things you don't want to imagine).

For women who have found porn unrealistic, unpleasant etc, have you tried to find the sort of thing you might enjoy? You don't have to - there is absolutely no reason for someone to watch porn if they don't want to. Its more of a sort of experiment question - given the variety is there some porn that will appeal to almost everyone, or are there a fair number of people who would not enjoy any visual erotica.


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## jigga114 (Mar 15, 2015)

Do they make porn for women, and if they do, how different is it from the regular stuff?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

intheory said:


> Huge turn off.
> 
> It's two (or more) strangers, f.u.c.k.ing for pay, while being filmed; so that people who can't get fully turned on by sex with a partner, can get off.
> 
> ...


I think I love you!... In a platonic anonymous forum kind of way! Lol!:wink2:

Absolutely love and agree with this post. Bladerunner is a fantastic movie and great example.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sun Catcher (Dec 6, 2013)

I guess I am in the minority here. I read literotica and watch porn. I like the more "homemade stuff with women who have my body type, large breasted and rubenesque, not the skinny Minnie's. I follow a sex forum and have learned an awful lot. I share what I read and see with my husband and he likes hearing about it but doesn't watch porn. I am his centerfold as far as he is concerned. 

It is from watching porn I learned how to give a good BJ. I had never done that before my current husband (well the one disastrous incident with my first husband I won't count) and he had never had one either so was a learning curve for both of us. I think it is great that there are sex and fetish forums out there that one can peruse and learn all kinds of things. We have experimented with a few things and some we like and continue doing and other things gave us giggles and we moved on, other things were way too far out there for us. All this we do within our marriage, just the two of us.

One thing I found I love? Being talked to dirty, it really heightens my experience to be called names while having sex. It took hubby a little while to learn this, he was initially appalled but now he manages it quite convincingly.

I am not as HD as hubby, and find that reading or watching a short video not only gives me ideas but does warm me up for when hubby gets home. Just gives me that edge and gets the thought process going. Sex is all in the head, is it not? So a few minutes on the forum or watching a video for me is all it takes. He knows I do this and it doesn't bother him, how could it if he arrives home and I ask him to sit down and I unzip his pants cause I want to try out a technique I learned? Or, he comes in and I am there naked on the bed stroking myself or in a certain let's say submissive position?

Oh and the cuddling that follows, that is awesome, too. Very lucky to have found a man who needs to cuddle after sex just as much as I do.

Anyway, it looks like most people here don't agree with this and go so far as to say it is wrong. Well, we have sex mostly daily and sometimes more than once, rarely we skip a day. I will keep on doing what I do, cause I like what we do an awful lot. :grin2:


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Sun Catcher said:


> I guess I am in the minority here. I read literotica and watch porn. I like the more "homemade stuff with women who have my body type, large breasted and rubenesque, not the skinny Minnie's. I follow a sex forum and have learned an awful lot. I share what I read and see with my husband and he likes hearing about it but doesn't watch porn. I am his centerfold as far as he is concerned.
> 
> It is from watching porn I learned how to give a good BJ. I had never done that before my current husband (well the one disastrous incident with my first husband I won't count) and he had never had one either so was a learning curve for both of us. I think it is great that there are sex and fetish forums out there that one can peruse and learn all kinds of things. We have experimented with a few things and some we like and continue doing and other things gave us giggles and we moved on, other things were way too far out there for us. All this we do within our marriage, just the two of us.
> 
> ...


You are just sharing about you. I'm against porn but appreciate your sharing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

OliviaG said:


> And some women love sex and are wild, and still find porn to be repulsive and degrading. Like me, for instance.


And me.


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## bbdad (Feb 11, 2013)

It's kinda funny here. My wife is much more into porn than I am. I don't mind at all. She wasn't always that way. Last few years, due to hormonal changes, her drive has skyrocketed. She prefers girl/girl scenes or group type scenes.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

My issue with porn, the camera tends to add 10-50lbs, and I hated looking that fat >


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

peacem said:


> @Sun Catcher - you seem to have got a good balance and a very healthy relationship with your partner. You are open and honest with each other which I think is the key to it all. I don't think your relationship is unusual particularly among the younger generations. One of the reasons so many people here have negative attitudes towards porn is this forum has more than its fair share of people who have been deeply hurt and rejected because of porn (me included), it is very difficult to think outside our own context and history. I have no doubt that it can destroy relationships and cause sexual dysfunction if you let it. You are an example of a healthy porn user who uses it to her advantage and I know this feels very liberating when porn is often considered an exclusive male arena. My husband even told me that porn is only made for men which is not only partially true but also contributed to him excluding me from an important area of his life. I would rather be part of it than excluded.
> 
> I used to see porn as deeply threatening and upsetting (and for good reason), but now I equate it to creating a fantasy, sharing a fantasy, dressing up, reading erotica, talking dirty, using toys...we watch porn together very occasionally to spice things up. We don't need it, it is just fun and takes away the threat of alienation. *The more porn I watch the less I take it seriously*.


This last sentence is very incisive, to me. I equate mutual marital porn use to drinking a glass of wine every day. Indeed, the bible is against many things including drunkenness. Yet some Christians will say a sip of wine is a sin. For some, it might indeed be so simply because they think it is. For me, a glass of wine a day is healthy and I feel no remorse whatsoever doing so. 
I view porn in a similar light. I view it as I would a vibrator or sexy clothing. I view it as a harmless sexual diversion. I believe the puritans used to have sex through a hole in their sheets. Should I follow their lead as well? After all, the Puritans were as Christian as they come.

Let us face some facts here. I don't care how well coifed and kept up a couple keep themselves. After a 24 year marriage sex can become stale. ANYTHING I can do short of inviting another person into my bed, I am willing to try. Try, not because I want to get off thinking about another person, but try because I want to continue to lust after my wife till the day I die.

The more open I am to experimenting with things like porn in the marriage bed, the more exciting our sex life becomes, yes, even after 24 years. I have no intention in cheating on my wife. In fact, I pray daily that will never occur. I do however want to be excited to bed my wife. If that means I need to lose weight, control my anger, lose resentment, gain control over my emotions, take Viagra, testosterone, wine, porn, vibrators, video recorders, lube, sexy clothing, sexy talking, roll playing, sex chairs, sex swings, basically ANYTHING that can enhance our marriage bed OTHER than an actual person joining us, I believe is OK.

Having said this, I also believe each individual must make their own decision as to whether or not they are ok with it. After all, I am not and never will be any ones judge. That is between you and God alone. I don't have to answer to TAM, I have to answer to God and I will whether I want to or not.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

OliviaG said:


> Just wanted to say that I hope you're not feeling judged UMP. As for me, I am not a fan of porn, but not judging you or anyone else that enjoys it. Wanted to make sure that was 100% clear. I think your wife is one lucky woman to have such a devoted, creative husband lusting after her!


No, I do not feel judged by ANYONE on this board. Even if I did, that's my problem. I encourage anyone to give me their opinion EVEN if they are judging me. All the people on TAM have a past and we only hear 1% of that. Past life experiences that I cannot even begin to understand make up a person and their views on many different things including porn. 

Even if someone judges me, how can I have all the knowledge necessary to correctly judge them wrong for doing so?

All is well!


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

For some women, like me, porn is a turn-on if I watch it solo, but I would never want to watch it with a significant other. Seeing them get turned on by someone who looks so unlike me, we could be a different species, is like a bucket of ice water. It's sort of a big flashing sign saying "this is what I really want, but you're here, so you'll do I guess." 

Imagine you have just prepared a homemade dinner for you and your wife. (This is how it feels to me but of course every person is different ). Nothing gourmet, but ya know, pretty good. Your wife suggests she picks up a bag of KFC fried chicken for you to enjoy with dinner and asks if you want some. Even if you don't mind fried chicken in theory, but the idea that she would bring home dinner and would prefer something other than what you are making is a little insulting. It's an incomplete and rather faulty analogy, but the best I could think of to adequately explain it.

By the way, most scientific studies show men and women getting aroused by watching porn, irregardless of what they claim to find arousing. But them wanting incorporate it into their sex lives is still a huge leap.

I also agree with some others here who have said that the type of porn could matter a lot. What turns one woman on can be a total turn-off for another. Personally, I hate the shots of men climaxing on the woman's face. It's just sort of degrading and gross. But I sort of love the dirty talk. Since only you know your wife, only you know what sort of acts and/or kinks rev her engine. There is also the possibility that she does not like it in any form and never will.

When I was married, my LD husband loved watching porn with women with HUGE breasts. Like, obscenely huge. I'm not a small woman, but the thought that he'd rather look at them than have sex with me hurt a lot, and pretty much made me stop trying to engage him. Could it be that you maybe could try to wean yourself off porn when you're with your wife, that she might be OK with you watching it when you're alone? Maybe she genuinely doesn't care. But to most women, I would think, we're supposed to be "cool" with it, but mostly it just hurts.


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

lovelyblue said:


> Maybe I'm an odd women...I like to watch porn it get me all tingly and a bit excited. In fact I have two favorite porn star that I like watching.
> 
> My Ex-bf's never liked it.


I have a liking for porn. I am female. It does make me feel rather odd to have so many females dislike it. I have a few favorite actors I like as well. I spicifilially look for female friendly pron. Something with a little romance, and a story line, then some sex but nothing disgusting or nothing with someone who is not awake enough to know what is happening.




peacem said:


> For me, a lot of porn does nothing for me and sometimes it can even be a turn off. Then sometimes I come across something that is absolutely arousing. We had a similar conversation the other night when I described looking at 10 films and only 1 did anything for me. My husband shook his head as most films showing female nudity will do something for him.


I am the same way. Out of 50 films, I might can watch some of 1 or 2 and only parts of it at that.








Vinnydee said:


> For the first few years of our marriage, my wife and I watched porn. My wife was a virgin and learned by watching porn. I just liked to get aroused and than have sex with my wife afterwards. One night our girlfriend was watching porn for the first time and there was an oral sex scene where the guy ejaculated into the woman's mouth. Our girlfriend gagged and ran into the bathroom to get sick. I never saw that happen to anyone else.


That is totally me. I first watched porn for educational reasons. I just didn't have much experience with sex and wanted to see what it was like. I also have a history of rape and sexual abuse, and ti was recommened to me by my T to watch soft core porn. Jsut so that I could see that not all sex was abusive and horrible. That helped me so much. There is horrible stuff out there, and I want no part of that viewing .

I can also relate with your friend who watched oral and she got sick at what she saw and ran to the bathroom. That is what I would do. I cannot watch that. I was hurt in that way and it just is not something I can watch.


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

badsanta said:


> Women generally tend to be able to empathize with the content portrayed in a porn and can easily distinguish that things are not likely genuine.
> 
> If a man were to watch porn through the eyes of a woman, he would probably find himself thinking, "You know with all these different camera angles it had to be rather intrusive to have a large film crew in the middle of all that action with all those bright spotlights pointed right at his wiener. And those positions that allow for the best close up graphics are NOT very stimulating AT ALL, AT ALL!
> 
> ...


My H has asked me to look at what he likes, and I don;t like what he does. He has also watched what I like and it does very little for him. I think it has to do with experiences and relating to what things feel like to that person. I do not really enjoy PIV that much, so those kind of scenes do little for me. But show me a scene of oral being performed on a woman, good oral, not dog food eating pu**y kinda stuff, and I am ready to melt.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Big Mama said:


> My H has asked me to look at what he likes, and I don;t like what he does. He has also watched what I like and it does very little for him. I think it has to do with experiences and relating to what things feel like to that person. I do not really enjoy PIV that much, so those kind of scenes do little for me. But show me a scene of oral being performed on a woman, good oral, not dog food eating pu**y kinda stuff, and I am ready to melt.


I had a girlfriend in college was the exact same way. But she enjoyed scenes of a woman performing oral on another woman because obviously a woman understands much better what things feel like compared to a man's idea of what feels good for a woman.

Ironically those were the scenes in which I had no interest myself. I wanted to see the PIV stuff! 

_*Badsanta fast forwarding*_
GIRLFRIEND: Stop!
_*Badsanta hitting rewind*_
GIRLFRIEND: Yes, let me watch more of THAT!
_*Badsanta thinking, "Seriously, can I please fast forward to the part where the guy shows up?"*_

Badsanta


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

Ha Ha, i like your verbal illustration. That is exactly how it is for us. I can relate to how oral feels, he can relate to how PIV feels. When I see PIV I think "Really, when are they gonna get to the good stuff " and I am sure the thinks sheesh what is not to like about this . So I watch what I like and he watches what he likes.

Well I can't find it now, but someone said that is hard to enjoy porn with their H or wife, which ever is, watching. I would rather watch it alone. I don;t know why. It is just how I am.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

I like porn, always have, prefferebly hard porn. Too soft porn bores me. I do not watch it much, once in a while, but when I do I enjoy it. We used to watch it together in the past. Now not so much.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

If women being in porn was so horrible, degrading and terrible, they wouldn't be in that profession. No one is forcing women to be in porn. They choose to be in porn because they have high sex drives, love to be the center of attention, be the star and get paid much better than the men. Men are just stand ins more than anything and the woman are really the stars.

Yes, I am a God fearing man. I never claimed to be perfect. No one is. Yes, I occasionally view porn from time to time. Is it every day or every week? No. Maybe once every few months and only when I'm so sexually starved from my LD wife, I have to get it out of my system. It beats me going out to have an EA and PA, or a party, bars, pubs, strip clubs, etc.

Just because you have a faith doesn't mean you are magically perfect and immune to the world. That's very naive thinking.

We all have our weaknesses. For some its drinking, smoking, drugs, porn, stealing, violence, etc.

All you can do is try and nothing more.

Attacking someone's faith because they aren't perfect is very shallow and beneath me.

I love everything about the ladies. How they look, sound, move, everything. So watching and hearing them just turns me on. I love the ladies and always will.

I think most guys regardless of what they believe are quite similar.....


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## lovelyblue (Oct 25, 2013)

_For women who have found porn unrealistic, unpleasant etc, have you tried to find the sort of thing you might enjoy?_

At first I hated porn and all thing erotic.

Then I found what I enjoyed to look at. I also told myself that it's okay to want to watch porn and it's okay that I like it.

I only watch porn or read sexy stories once or twice a week.


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## lovelyblue (Oct 25, 2013)

_ I would rather watch it alone. I don;t know why. It is just how I am._

You're not alone I like watching by myself to. All though I wouldn't hate if the guy I was with wanted to watch with.


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

CuddleBug said:


> Yes, I am a God fearing man. I never claimed to be perfect. No one is. Yes, I occasionally view porn from time to time. Is it every day or every week? No. Maybe once every few months and only when I'm so sexually starved from my LD wife, I have to get it out of my system. It beats me going out to have an EA and PA, or a party, bars, pubs, strip clubs, etc.
> 
> Just because you have a faith doesn't mean you are magically perfect and immune to the world. That's very naive thinking.
> We all have our weaknesses. For some its drinking, smoking, drugs, porn, stealing, violence, etc.
> ...



Thank you so much for saying that. I am a christian as well. I attend church every sunday. That doesn't make me super human, I am just as human as any one else. I fall short daily. Nobody's perfect.

I see porn as this way. God was very good to someone and gave them a beautiful body. You take the gifts you were given and use them as you see fit. God gave us all bodys and 5 senses to enjoy everything around us. Taste, smell, touch, hearing, and one more that I can't seem to remember now. ( NO, I am not smarter then a 5th grader ) God wants us to use all our senses to experience life to it's fullest. Sex is no different. He gave us sex organs for more then just making babies. He gave them to us to have immense pleasure with. 

I personally have used porn as a teaching tool. It has taken what was a horrible experience (rape) and showed me that sex can be a good thing. (there is porn out there that is terrible, but it is not for me to judge, it may benefit someone as well) It took what I was naive in and showed me what to do in a safe way. I didn't have to go out and have multiple partners to learn the things I have learned. 

So all this said I am christian, and I am human, and I fail daily and I try my best. Am I a porn addict...NO. I may watch it 4 times a year. 

Everything has it's good and it's bad. Drugs can ruin your life, but drugs can be used s medicines and help people. Pot helps relieve the symptoms of cancer or glaucoma. Alcohol in moderation is heart healthy. Porn in moderation under the right circumstances is not always harmful. Any addiction of any type is harmful, drugs, porn, alcohol, food, gambling, and the list could go on and on. 

We are all entitled to our opinions here. You have shared yours and I have shared mine, and so has everyone else.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

I did an experiment last night.
My wife is on her period, so we take a break from sex during this time.
So, I go to my man cave and watch some porn for about 10-15 minutes. I did not masturbate, I simply viewed the porn and thought about what I was experiencing.
Yes, I was aroused by watching the porn and I was fantasizing about the women in the video. After I was finished all I could think about was having sex with my wife the rest of the night. Basically, whatever I viewed caused me to want my wife more.

Other than a case of blue balls, I think it went well. 

I look at it this way. I never masturbate to conclusion while watching porn by myself. I want to save my orgasm for my wife. Since I am a 54 year old heart attack survivor taking Viagra and testosterone, my motor does not rev as fast as it once did. The porn/Viagra/test/ seem to stoke the coals in my loins and enable me to perform more like I was 35 years old.

Without the Viagra, Testosterone and porn I would probably be a fat, angry, couch potato with a limp d$ck. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that's an attractive option for my wife


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

OliviaG said:


> There are a couple of scenes in this movie that are a real turn-on for me. I'm sure the guys reading will find it pretty tame, but oh my, do they work for me. I can't remember if there are subtitles in this film - probably it is partially subtitled. And the sex scenes wouldn't work for me except in the context of the entire film, so no sense fast-forwarding to them unless you've seen the film. But those scenes are more or less emblazoned on my brain..lol.. I don't need to watch it to get myself going, just need to think about it.. It's on Netflix.
> 
> Bride Flight Movie Review & Film Summary (2011) | Roger Ebert


BTW- I ordered this movie a couple days ago on your recommendation. We will watch it tonight and will report back on Monday.
Thanks!


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I think there is a huge range. Top porn stars make more money than I do and presumably are happy with their professions - since they could retire if they wanted. At the other extreme some porn is likely by trafficed women. How many of the "homemade" movies are really couples having fun, and how many are desperate for money is tough to tell.



CuddleBug said:


> If women being in porn was so horrible, degrading and terrible, they wouldn't be in that profession. No one is forcing women to be in porn. They choose to be in porn because they have high sex drives, love to be the center of attention, be the star and get paid much better than the men. Men are just stand ins more than anything and the woman are really the stars.
> 
> .


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

It's all that Venus/mars crap, and I would imagine most housewives are comparing their bodies to that 20 year old chick with the fake tiddies, and feeling. Bad about herself. Even though the husband still finds his slightly over weight wife hot as hell, and wants her so badly. Just my opinion.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Thound said:


> It's all that Venus/mars crap, and I would imagine most housewives are comparing their bodies to that 20 year old chick with the fake tiddies, and feeling. Bad about herself. Even though the husband still finds his slightly over weight wife hot as hell, and wants her so badly. Just my opinion.


On top of that, the porn I like best is older girl next door with low hanging naturals :grin2: All this young silicone fakeness turns me completely off.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

UMP said:


> On top of that, the porn I like best is older girl next door with low hanging naturals :grin2: All this young silicone fakeness turns me completely off.


That and tats.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Thound said:


> That and tats.


I must confess, I kind of like SOME tats.
My wife has been known to wear some fake ones for me on special occasions. 
Sometimes on the over night hotel stays my wife will doll up with black nail polish, 6" pumps, sleezy lingerie and some fake tats.
God, I love her!


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

UMP said:


> I must confess, I kind of like SOME tats.
> My wife has been known to wear some fake ones for me on special occasions.
> Sometimes on the over night hotel stays my wife will doll up with black nail polish, 6" pumps, sleezy lingerie and some fake tats.
> God, I love her!


Looks like you've got a keeper. I really respect a woman who wants to please her man.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

If Mrs.CuddleBug had a healthy, high, adventurous sex drive, my occasional porn viewing and release would be......ZERO.

In fact, when I get sex just 3x week, its enough for me not to even think about porn.

Being honest.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

intheory said:


> Whether sex workers choose to be in porn or not isn't the issue. Lots of people choose to do things that are wrong. At least "wrong" from the Judeo-Christian Biblical perspective. As a "Christian", you are responsible for doing your best to put your faith into action???? No??? _Faith without works is dead._ (James 2:17) People fornicating for pay is called prostitution. It's a sin according to the Bible. You actively get involved in it by watching when you don't have to. Because you want to. You don't want to give it up. The cost to you is too great. Fine. I don't care. It's the "I'm a God fearing Christian man" that makes me laugh.
> 
> We all know that* no-one* is perfect. There's nothing humble about stating something so obvious as "I'm not perfect".
> 
> ...




My impression of you is you aren't a loving, caring Christian. You are judgmental, quoting Bible versus, and almost confrontational and negative person.


People from the outside see how you respond and will not be impressed of the Christian faith.


Christian's are to tolerate and love one another.


Do you see your own 2x4 in your own eye? No. But you point out everyone's speck of saw dust in their eyes.


Do I sin on purpose? No.


We all are born into sin and we human beings are always going to be weak, corrupt and rotten, no matter how hard we try.


Less quoting and judging, with more caring and understanding from you would go a long way. You are making us Christian's look bad and judgmental.


At least I openly admit I occasionally view porn due to lack of sex from my LD wife and that's why I'm here at TAM.


I offer advice and learn from everyone.


Less quoting, judging, and more understanding, caring and loving. 


That's what Jesus would do. He hung around with prostitutes, tax collectors, the immoral, the unpopular, etc. and loved them. He didn't judge, quote Bible versus like you are doing.


If I didn't believe in Jesus, and I read this post of yours, I would be turned off.


And no, I don't view porn replacing my wife. I only view porn because she is usually never in the mood.......wife has to take care of her hubbies needs as her own and she is not her own anymore. LD's do not follow this, leading to us HD's here on TAM to try and deal with it and learn from everyone's experiences. Can't have it both ways.


Do I go around quoting Bible versus judging other people? No.


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## lifeisbetterthanalternat (Apr 24, 2012)

intheory said:


> I don't think actors should have to have actual intercourse with one another. Oral, PiV, anal, . . . . nostril, ear canal --- whatever.
> 
> There is a line being crossed there that shouldn't be crossed. I realize they consent (hopefully) to doing this. To me that doesn't matter. "Real" sex should not be a commodity. I don't care how naive it is for me to think that.
> 
> ...


I agree that what of what you are saying is congruent with what most women and some men feel about porn. That is exposes "too much" and that as you say puts things on display that should be kept private, only viewed by each other's spouses. However, some of what you say seems to be gender biased. I think most men want nudity to be included in the depiction of a sex act where most women want it contextualized. Women want to know the frame of mind of the characters etc. Men just want to cut to the chase and let the visual parts of it start. Not just in fiction but, in real life. We like to see skin in and out of the bedroom. I do however, respect your objection. 

I wonder however, if the wider acceptance of porn, more closely aligns with much of the "new" outlook regarding sex. I think that sex is no longer something that is viewed with the sanctity that it once did. We see people having casual sex in college and young adults. It is now euphemized. Many younger people call it “hanging out” or “hooking up”. It is totally acceptable to have many partners prior to marriage and for many it is not frowned upon.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

intheory said:


> Yes, men want to see nudity in filmed, acted out sex acts. Agree.
> 
> Men want skin in and out of the bedroom. Notably, women's skin OTHER than their wives.
> 
> ...




This is an interesting theory. I can see marriage as a legal institution continuing to change but I do not think monogamous relationships will disappear. It's a fundamental desire of most people to settle down with a partner. 

But I do agree with you about the porn bit. I think the reason women haven't been as into porn is because we've not been raised to embrace our sexuality and as a result aren't consumers of porn like men are. Thus most porn is made for men. 

But that will change, and when it does men will face the same issues women do.
Many will say that if they get more sex they'll be happy but that's because many haven't really experienced a wife who's into porn enough for them to feel inadequate. As soon as their wife starts to ask why they can't look like porn beefcakes and have huge c0cks that can function on command they might see things differently. 

As soon as their wife can't get turned on by him and needs porn he might change his mind. 

Knowing that his wife is masturbating regularly to porn and watching men jack off on camera might change minds.

Knowing that their wife just watched hot men in porn and needs a functioning dildo might become empty after a while.

We'll see.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

intheory said:


> I think marriage is on life support at this point.
> 
> Perhaps people will have serial monogamy??? Laws will change/adapt to provide for children born to such arrangements.
> 
> ...


I understand. There's always been something about the "I only turn to porn when I don't get enough from my wife" argument that doesn't sit well with me.

First, I think porn creates the illusion of higher drive then one really is. If one is so HD they don't need porn to exploit that.....it's like being tired and downing coffee, then claiming you have all this extra energy; no you don't, if you did you wouldn't need coffee. You'd just have it naturally. And eventually you'll need more and more coffee even when you do get a good night's sleep.

And I firmly believe that it is damaging to the marital bond. I know a lot of guys will say "but I still want my wife".....but to me it's still putting sexual energy in a place that's not your marriage and thus takes away from it. I mean, what if I innocently flirted with other men because my husband didn't pay me enough attention? Nobody would go for that, so it seems to be a bit of a double standard.

Of course the argument will be that I'm flirting with real men and thus it's different, but really what is my option for supplementing my need for attention if my husband isn't meeting it? Why should men have a way to supplement their needs but women can't? 

But men like naked chicks. I get it. Women like attention from men and if hubby doesn't provide an acceptable amount maybe she should be allowed to get it elsewhere.

I wonder what would happen if for every time a husband jerked off to porn without his wife if his wife was allowed to flirt with another man to fulfill her need for attention?


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> I wonder what would happen if for every time a husband jerked off to porn without his wife if his wife was allowed to flirt with another man to fulfill her need for attention?


How about if the husband is jerking off to porn b/c his wife is not fulfilling his need for attention, rejecting him for sex, etc...? Likewise the situation could be reversed, wife relying on her vibrator to make up for lack of attention from H.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> How about if the husband is jerking off to porn b/c his wife is not fulfilling his need for attention, rejecting him for sex, etc...? Likewise the situation could be reversed, wife relying on her vibrator to make up for lack of attention from H.


I understand, but the argument is apples and oranges because often men and women have different basic needs. Men need sex, ok I get that, but for the women that really need emotional attention what is their outlet if they don't get enough from hubby?

You have to take the most important need for each and compare, otherwise it's apples and oranges.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> I understand, but the argument is apples and oranges because often men and women have different basic needs. Men need sex, ok I get that, but for the women that really need emotional attention what is their outlet if they don't get enough from hubby?
> 
> You have to take the most important need for each and compare, otherwise it's apples and oranges.


Yes, but your post reads as if a man is jerking off he must be ignoring his wife's needs. Also, does it matter how the emotional needs are received? Many men see sex as a way to get their emotional needs filled (men don't always need sex just for the sake of having sex), so to me it is apples to apples comparison when one person in the relationship is not fulfilling the others.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I only enjoy "romantic" porn.. (man & woman)... any hint of it being degrading.. I won't like it, off it goes. 

What I have learned about myself is... when the sex drive is higher .. I loved it more so.. when it was raging.. I couldn't get enough of it.. even rented it... it became ELECTRIC TO ME....similar to young men going into puberty.. they can't get it off their minds.. want to seek it out... strange what too much testosterone can do to your mind.. 

I had physical symptoms that my Test was HIGH... I hardly needed any sleep, not a drop of foreplay- for 8 months straight.. would have loved 3 times a day.... I even felt my confidence was boosted.. it was like I was walking on air.. not a pain in my body.. and I couldn't get sex off my brain...

As my sex drive calmed... so did the allure to put it before my eyes.... still enjoy some now & then though.. it does get the motor running- if I need a little jump start ... 

I think I like it more than my husband does.. his flavor is just solo women, he has no desire to see the man at all. We'll watch it together.. though he's more interested in watching ME watch it.. Go figure. 

I consider myself a very visual woman. Always enjoyed a dirty Romance novel... this can fire my jets in seconds once the passion pages come into play.... the written word can take me places .....and nothing's better than an erotic Scene in the movies - that leaves something to the imagination ...


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

intheory said:


> I think in 50 years marriage will have gone the way of the dinosaur.


Call me old fashioned, but that is a sad thought if it ever does become reality.

Where I think you will run into further issues with porn as time goes on, people are getting exposed to porn at younger ages. I know when I was growing up the only chance I had to watch porn was to hopefully see a booby through the scrambled Spice Channel :grin2: . Now, had I been exposed to porn at a young age as you can easily do now, who knows how that would have altered my view of sex. I have a very traditional view of sex where I believe it is meant to be shared b/w two people who love each other. Could that view have changed if I spent the better part of my adolescent life relying on gang bangs, pizza delivery guys, sexy teachers as my guide, Mom's teaching their daughter's boyfriend the ropes, etc.... possibly?

Within the confines of a relationship I see no issues with either watching porn, but only under the condition that watching porn does not take away any sexual energy that would otherwise be directed at the SO (the same goes with masturbating). For me personally, I have zero interest in porn if things are going well b/w my W and I sexually (with really frequency being the key issue). Unfortunately I would say more often than not things aren't exactly going well, but even then I actually rather not watch porn since I find it only enhances my frustration.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> Yes, but your post reads as if a man is jerking off he must be ignoring his wife's needs. Also, does it matter how the emotional needs are received? Many men see sex as a way to get their emotional needs filled (men don't always need sex just for the sake of having sex), so to me it is apples to apples comparison when one person in the relationship is not fulfilling the others.


No, I'm saying that porn is argued to be an appropriate way for a man to supplement his needs, but women have no comparable way to supplement their emotional needs if they're not being met. 

And if men have emotional needs met through sex how exactly does porn address that?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> No, I'm saying that porn is argued to be an appropriate way for a man to supplement his needs, but women have no comparable way to supplement their emotional needs if they're not being met.
> 
> And if men have emotional needs met through sex how exactly does porn address that?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, I definitely don't agree that porn is appropriate to supplement his needs so I am definitely not arguing that.

As for your second point, I was actually thinking about that as I wrote my original response. Maybe a guy is able to use porn to fantasize about his needs being met, being wanted, etc... To me this is no different then a woman going out flirting. Heck, you could even argue that the flirting is more dangerous since she is putting herself in a position where things could go further (how much further could the guy go sitting in front of his PC). Regardless of the action it is being done to in some way to meet needs (or lack of).


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> Well, I definitely don't agree that porn is appropriate to supplement his needs so I am definitely not arguing that.
> 
> As for your second point, I was actually thinking about that as I wrote my original response. Maybe a guy is able to use porn to fantasize about his needs being met, being wanted, etc... To me this is no different then a woman going out flirting. Heck, you could even argue that the flirting is more dangerous since she is putting herself in a position where things could go further (how much further could the guy go sitting in front of his PC). Regardless of the action it is being done to in some way to meet needs (or lack of).


Yes, and all take from the marital bond. It's just that many argue that porn isn't a big deal yet freak out at the notion of a wife getting her emotional needs met elsewhere.

If it could be guaranteed that flirting would never go beyond flirting and only served to supplement a wife's emotional needs, so you think most hb's would be ok with it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I'm not sure men's and women's sexual and emotional needs are all that different. There are plenty of posters here who are men who miss affection and attention (not sex) from their wives, and plenty of women who are miserable because their husbands won't have sex with them. 

Porn is a poor substitute for sex - like junk food for hunger. But someone's partner won't provide anything else, then many will turn to it. 

Romance novels are a poor substitute for love and affection. But people read them when nothing else is available to them. 





lifeistooshort said:


> No, I'm saying that porn is argued to be an appropriate way for a man to supplement his needs, but women have no comparable way to supplement their emotional needs if they're not being met.
> 
> snip
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Vulcan2013 (Sep 25, 2013)

I'll jump in, although getting this exposed is uncomfortable for me. 

Men and women have very different vulnerabilities in the area of porn. Women prefer 50 shades long story line type porn, while men prefer videos where "ladies" want to pleasure them after a whopping 15 seconds of dialog. I won't say women aren't visual, as my W can still remember me covered in oil (don't want to clarify). 

But here's where I'll split off from the rest. My W is beautiful, especially if one adjusts for age. Yet, I needed to fantasize about porn to stay aroused. Which I suspect may be your issue. 

Have you ever considered going porn-free for a few months? I'm not talking days, I mean 60-120 days. Seriously, look at yourbrainonporn.com to understand this. It's not unusual for a woman not to like porn. 

To be blunt and serious, porn is not your friend. You've heard from a number of women who would prefer not to judge, yet they don't sound very enthusiastic about porn. 

The underlying issue is not porn, yet we must deal with our underlying demons if we want to heal.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> Yes, and all take from the marital bond. It's just that many argue that porn isn't a big deal yet freak out at the notion of a wife getting her emotional needs met elsewhere.
> 
> *If it could be guaranteed that flirting would never go beyond flirting and only served to supplement a wife's emotional needs, so you think most hb's would be ok with it?*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


As far as the bolded not sure why you are asking me that, I have been pretty clear that I don't believe any sort of supplementing should be acceptable if it is due to a partner not meeting the needing of their SO (I am speaking on behalf of myself, not the voice of other HBs). Now if the two people agree to it, sure, it is not a problem. All I see is a problem that is only going to get worse over time, supplementing doesn't fix that.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

richardsharpe said:


> good evening
> In porn discussions, I see a lot of comments on it being unrealistic, or not aimed at women. It seems to me that there is a enormous variety of porn - and its easy to find almost anything you could possibly imagine (and a lot of things you don't want to imagine).
> 
> For women who have found porn unrealistic, unpleasant etc, have you tried to find the sort of thing you might enjoy? You don't have to - there is absolutely no reason for someone to watch porn if they don't want to. Its more of a sort of experiment question - given the variety is there some porn that will appeal to almost everyone, or are there a fair number of people who would not enjoy any visual erotica.


Yeah, this.

In this particular thread, I see a lot of people equating "porn" strictly with studio-made, professional actors, and all that.

The few women I know who occasionally watch porn do not enjoy that type of stuff, and for all of the reasons others here have stated. 

They do, however, enjoy home-made, amateur, real-people-who-look-like-you-and-me porn, which certainly exists.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Sun Catcher said:


> I guess I am in the minority here. I read literotica and watch porn. I like the more "homemade stuff with women who have my body type, large breasted and rubenesque, not the skinny Minnie's.


This whole post was awesome, honestly, and it's refreshing to see this type of thing discussed by a woman.

At the risk of bringing it all down, though, I often wonder whether the participants in home made porn are aware that their videos are online and available for viewing by millions.

I'm not a big porn watcher, so I don't really know how to verify those types of things, but the one or two free sites that seem to be the most popular have all sorts of categories, "amateur" being one of them.

I mean, it's pretty clear that the participants in these videos are willing, and aware that they're being filmed, but are they both aware that the video has been uploaded to these sites?

That raises a whole lot of ethical questions, and for me, anyway, it impacts my potential enjoyment - which is why I don't frequent these sites. Professionally made porn does nothing for me, and like you, I'm much more interested in people who look like normal, everyday people. A bit of a catch-22, though, at least for me.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

CuddleBug said:


> And no, I don't view porn replacing my wife. I only view porn because she is usually never in the mood.......wife has to take care of her hubbies needs as her own and she is not her own anymore. LD's do not follow this, leading to us HD's here on TAM to try and deal with it and learn from everyone's experiences. Can't have it both ways.


This isn't a challenge, so don't take it as one - but what makes it so difficult to simply use one's imagination, as opposed to viewing other people?

I mean, I GET it - I'm also visually stimulated, but I do also have an imagination.

And if the base reason for something like masturbation is to, well, get off, (particularly when you don't have a partner to share that with) and therefore have that need met, then what purpose does something like porn serve, other than to fantasize about somebody else? Which is clearly stated as a sin in the quotes given in this thread.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> I'm not sure men's and women's sexual and emotional needs are all that different. There are plenty of posters here who are men who miss affection and attention (not sex) from their wives, and plenty of women who are miserable because their husbands won't have sex with them.
> 
> Porn is a poor substitute for sex - like junk food for hunger. But someone's partner won't provide anything else, then many will turn to it.
> ...


The whole romance novel argument is tough for me to comprehend because I have no interest in them. .... they do nothing for me. 

I tried a little when I was younger but they always seemed so ridiculous I couldn't take them seriously.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> As far as the bolded not sure why you are asking me that, I have been pretty clear that I don't believe any sort of supplementing should be acceptable if it is due to a partner not meeting the needing of their SO (I am speaking on behalf of myself, not the voice of other HBs). Now if the two people agree to it, sure, it is not a problem. All I see is a problem that is only going to get worse over time, supplementing doesn't fix that.


I know you don't and I respect your views, it was more of a general question for the sake of discussion. Since so many men will claim that porn is no big deal because they still want their wife and they're not getting off to "real" people (debatable because people in porn are real people), and it seems like the argument against women getting comparable emotional needs supplemented elsewhere is that it can lead to more as real men are involved, if it could be guaranteed that it would never go beyond flirting would the same men who claim porn supplementing is no big deal be ok with it? 

Maybe someone who thinks supplementing with porn is ok will chime in and answer this question.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Vulcan2013 said:


> I'll jump in, although getting this exposed is uncomfortable for me.
> 
> Men and women have very different vulnerabilities in the area of porn. Women prefer 50 shades long story line type porn, while men prefer videos where "ladies" want to pleasure them after a whopping 15 seconds of dialog. I won't say women aren't visual, as my W can still remember me covered in oil (don't want to clarify).
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing this. Even though I think porn is damaging it doesn't necessarily threaten me if it's an occasional thing and I really feel like he's very into me and can get off without porn, which I do. 

But if he viewed it regularly I wouldn't believe that anymore. It's like having others in the relationship and that doesn't make me feel secure, even if he still finds me desirable. That leads to less sexual desire in my part.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> The whole romance novel argument is tough for me to comprehend because I have no interest in them. .... they do nothing for me.
> 
> I tried a little when I was younger but they always seemed so ridiculous I couldn't take them seriously.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I read a few in high school. Laughed so hard I almost passed out!

I still make fun of them to this day. 

It was a good insight into some emotions that many women want to feel.

Even if the whole story was over the top unreal and, IRL, would actually suck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> EllisRedding said:
> 
> 
> > As far as the bolded not sure why you are asking me that, I have been pretty clear that I don't believe any sort of supplementing should be acceptable if it is due to a partner not meeting the needing of their SO (I am speaking on behalf of myself, not the voice of other HBs). Now if the two people agree to it, sure, it is not a problem. All I see is a problem that is only going to get worse over time, supplementing doesn't fix that.
> ...


Agreed, it would be interesting to here from those who think porn is ok to make up for shortcomings in a relationship. 

I think porn for some (many?) has a very negative impact on relationships. Not sure the stat but I have read before that porn and facebook are high on the list of causes in relationship issues (or maybe not a cause per se but instead symptomatic of bigger issues). Nowadays with the ease in which anyone can access porn along with looser morals in society, I can only see this problem getting worse.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I assume that the great majority of people who make home made porn also watch home made porn and are aware of its distribution. There are exhibitionists who enjoy the idea of being watched. 

Of course some people are just doing it for the money, and some don't understand how widely it is distributed (and some unscrupulous people post videos without consent) but I think the majority understand the situation.




alexm said:


> This whole post was awesome, honestly, and it's refreshing to see this type of thing discussed by a woman.
> 
> At the risk of bringing it all down, though, I often wonder whether the participants in home made porn are aware that their videos are online and available for viewing by millions.
> 
> ...


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

EllisRedding said:


> How about if the husband is jerking off to porn b/c his wife is not fulfilling his need for attention, rejecting him for sex, etc...? Likewise the situation could be reversed, wife relying on her vibrator to make up for lack of attention from H.


Or it could be that porn creates sexual needs that are impossible to meet? Porn is created for men by men and the women are essential props. 

Early in my marriage, my husband asked me to watch porn with him. I did it a few times and tried to like it but all I felt was sadness. It was obvious that the whole thing had nothing to do with pleasing women or love or caring. 

I felt sorry for the women. Far from increasing my desire for sex or to do the things I saw, I needed time to get the images out of my head. 

Maybe video's of partnered sex that shows men pleasing women and women pleasing men would enhance sexual satisfaction for both partners. .


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Catherine602 said:


> Early in my marriage, my husband asked me to watch porn with him. I did it a few times and tried to like it but all I felt was sadness. It was obvious that the whole thing had nothing to do with pleasing women or love or caring.
> .


Curious, what do you think your H hoped to accomplish, you would watch and somehow be turned into a sexual deviant like the women in the videos ?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

@EllisRedding The women weren't sexual deviants. I shouldn't have said that my husband wanted me to watch it. He suggested it would be fun and I thought so too. The actors were doing common sexual things. It didn't have the effect i was hoping.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

intheory said:


> Catherine,
> 
> How well put. I have had those exact same feelings. I've never heard another woman describe it that way.
> 
> I'll share that I had the same feelings with the porn I've seen as I get when I see HSUS videos exposing cruelty to animals. The exact same sad, sickened feeling.


It unfortunately caters to a fairly animalistic, base lust that I believe we all have to some extent. To use or be used for base sexual gratifications.

I have known many women who were turned on by porn and disgusted at the same time. I have been the same way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> It unfortunately caters to a fairly animalistic, base lust that I believe we all have to some extent. To use or be used for base sexual gratifications.
> 
> I have known many women who were turned on by porn and disgusted at the same time. I have been the same way.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This has been my reality as well

To bring in from the "she divorced me over a cup" thread

This was something we did not see eye to eye on at first my fiance and I. But he understands it now.

A lot of times on this forum we make this into an alpha/beta, men are pigs, women are nags debate about porn. 

I just don't think we understand that we can look at the same image and have two viscerally different reactions to it. 

To women it feels threatening and upsetting and when she hears her husband/other men say it is harmless she feels insecure with them/

I cannot say what the male view is as a woman.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

VirgenTecate said:


> This has been my reality as well
> 
> To bring in from the "she divorced me over a cup" thread
> 
> ...


I'm not sure it is totally different between genders.

The women I knew felt more insecure about expressing that they became aroused while watching porn. Many of them were simultaneously disgusted with it and their reaction to it.

I feel the same. I have an animalistic, mindless lust that can be fed while at the same time something higher and more noble gets weaker or loses ground and I feel disgust as well.

I enjoy being able to let it loose with my wife when she is ready. Both of us are very satisfied afterwards.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

intheory said:


> Catherine,
> 
> How well put. I have had those exact same feelings. I've never heard another woman describe it that way.
> 
> I'll share that I had the same feelings with the porn I've seen as I get when I see HSUS videos exposing cruelty to animals. The exact same sad, sickened feeling.


I can't look at animal cruelty videos either, even rescue videos are too much. 

People say that women do porn for the money, attention and that they like sex but I don't believe it is as benign as that. Many of these women have been abused as children and think that the only way to be loved or liked is to offer sex. Some are very young and talked into doing porn for the money. 

If porn actresses like sex then they must find porn frustrating. The only body parts that are touched is the mouth, vj and anus and only with a penis. They don't orgasm, and they are not held, hugged or even looked at.


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> I'm not sure it is totally different between genders.
> 
> The women I knew felt more insecure about expressing that they became aroused while watching porn. Many of them were simultaneously disgusted with it and their reaction to it.
> 
> ...


So would you say that most men have that disgust reaction? I honestly do not know. Or is it a struggle for most men to understand women's disgust reaction.

I myself have viewed porn so that lust and disgust reaction has been mine.

I no longer watch it. 

I think the animalistic lust is something we all have. I prefer to share that with my fiance only now.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

As a woman I don't know that porn actually disgusts me. I do think it's an industry that exploits women, but assuming they're adults they have to take some responsibility for their choices. 

And while I agree that many have been abused even if they weren't in porn many would act out with promiscuity, so one could argue that at least this way they're making money. In my view that's why prostitution is still illegal.....not because anyone gives a sh!it that women put out (many of the lawmakers that support these laws have all kinds of cheap mistresses).....the old farts that make these laws are po'd that women profit from it instead of giving it up for free. And what's the difference anyway between women giving it up for men who buy them stuff and women who make a business deal? Nothing. IMHO.

But I do find porn empty. In my first marriage I actually did look at it from time to time because I had absolutely no connection whatsoever to my ex and he was not the least bit concerned with my satisfaction (I literally was a hole for him), so I just walled myself off and took care of myself. I didn't necessarily need porn to do it as I did have a sex drive, but at least with porn I didn't have to be vulnerable with a pr!ck who not only did not care but would use my vulnerabilities against me. And it allowed me to get out of my own reality from time to time.

Even as a woman I can tell you that watching porn definitely detaches me from the reality that is my hb, and I don't like that feeling. One of the things I really love about my current husband is that I can be vulnerable and still feel safe, and for a CSA survivor like me who also had a first husband who was abusive in many ways the feeling of being able to be vulnerable is like a huge weight off of my shoulders. It makes my feel like I'm not really alone in the world, and the bonding chemicals that are released when he makes me O really have an effect on me. I can feel it every time. If I took care of myself to porn those chemicals would not be bonding me to him and he would become more and more like a general body to use. Women can have these thoughts too, and I don't think it's just CSA survivors or women who've had jerkoff exes.....I think a lot of women feel this way.

Porn deprives me of that security because jerking off to others is essentially bringing other parties into the marriage and it takes sexual and sometimes emotional energy away. I'm not going to suggest that my hb never looks at attractive women, I look at attractive men, but him jerking it to others invades our marital bond. It just does.

And over and over we hear about how men connect emotionally through sex, so how exactly does porn address that? Suggests that it's actually not about having a connection but getting one's rocks off. How can that be good for a marriage?


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

intheory said:


> And, like I said upthread, if you REALLY are high drive, 90 seconds tops with a soapy hand in the shower is all it takes, while thinking about your wife's boobs. I mean, you're a really horny, red-blooded guy, right?


Honestly it is not that easy, trust me, high drive or not.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> And over and over we hear about how men connect emotionally through sex, so how exactly does porn address that? Suggests that it's actually not about having a connection but getting one's rocks off. How can that be good for a marriage?


If one is using porn as a replacement (male or female), there is already something wrong with the marriage


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

OliviaG said:


> Well I would expect to be lied to about it (except by those not using it), so I wouldn't just outright ask; I'd come up with a game plan with a little more finesse than that.


Lol, that could raise quite the ruckus if you get caught digging around someones browsing history >


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

intheory said:


> Thanks for sharing, life; what a great post on this subject.
> 
> Yes, many sex-workers have been sexually abused. That is awful. I know because of that, we're supposed to excuse them being in this industry and not hold them accountable for what they are doing.
> 
> ...




It's only been in the last few decades that oral was even on the table. In the good old days of the 1950's when people couldn't get divorced, the one so many pine for, a guy wouldn't dream of expecting oral from his wife, nor would any self respecting woman provide it. 

And duty sex was what men expected. The idea that one's wife would enjoy sex and perform for a his pleasure is a new concept. I think it's a good thing that women can enjoy sex, but that's a result of the sexual revolution and those evil feminists, not porn.

And no, I'm not a sex worker. I'm an actuary. ....pretty far from the sex industry 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

intheory said:


> The thing is, Olivia, they don't expect to be set up for a lifetime of dissatisfaction. They expect to GET what they are seeing in porn.
> 
> For their wives to say, ya know, "I don't want my clit rubbed like a lottery scratch ticket", "I don't want stuff shoved up my a.s.s." etc. etc., means the WIFE has something wrong with her - not the porn. And when the wife is dissatisfied and unhappy from being compared with and found wanting; then we have to find a way to convince her to be more like porn women.
> 
> ...


Well porn is often about men taking and not giving while still having his ego stroked. There are plenty of men who aren't like that and would do anything to please their wives, but porn will shift expectations. And a women who hasn't had a chance to explore her sexuality, which porn does not encourage, won't know what she likes. 

So her hb will assume she's just LD and go to porn to supplement, and the cycle continues. What many women really need is a safe place with limited expectations to explore her sexuality; generally a woman who knows what she wants and who has a willing guy will desire sex. 

Unless of course she's po'd about something but that's another conversation. 

Of course we're told porn has nothing to do with us, until it shows up in the bedroom. And it's inevitable that it will if a guy watches enough.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

VirgenTecate said:


> So would you say that most men have that disgust reaction? I honestly do not know. Or is it a struggle for most men to understand women's disgust reaction.
> 
> I myself have viewed porn so that lust and disgust reaction has been mine.
> 
> ...


I know a lot of men that have a disgust reaction but it seems more common in women.

A lot of porn is simply a woman being used to satisfy mindless masculine lust.

Women are objects.

I think that is why more women feel revulsion but there is also, often, an arousal initially, as intheory mentioned, to sex or even the thought of being used to satisfy the lust of a man.

It is on a visceral reaction but since women are being used, it is more off putting to more women.

I want prostitution to be illegal because it lowers all of us. Mankind suffers loss when we treat each other like consumables.

We are cheapened when our daughters are bought and sold as cum dumpsters.

I am even more disgusted by the men who buy women. Pathetic worms who deserve no respect.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

OliviaG said:


> I'm not sure that I buy the idea that women enjoying sex is a new thing. I'm betting we've enjoyed it for eons..
> 
> I do agree that men's expectations of their wives in that department have probably changed a HUGE amount in terms of variety of sex acts, personal grooming, etc..


You're probably right. Maybe the issue is that female sexuality has been suppressed in the spirit of controlling them (cause, you know, how else would hubby know the kids were his) that women learned about the whole "good girls don't enjoy sex". 

And when they have no ability to support themselves they then have to make choices based on who can and will take care of them, not necessarily who they're attracted to.

Men have, to a much larger extent, been free to pursue someone who was sexually appealing. 

But I think encouraging female sexuality is a good thing for men and women.....men certainly benefit from a woman being able to consider who they're sexually attracted to and being able to explore their own sexuality and what they like.


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> In my first marriage I actually did look at it from time to time because I had absolutely no connection whatsoever to my ex and he was not the least bit concerned with my satisfaction (I literally was a hole for him), so I just walled myself off and took care of myself. I didn't necessarily need porn to do it as I did have a sex drive, but at least with porn I didn't have to be vulnerable with a pr!ck who not only did not care but would use my vulnerabilities against me. And it allowed me to get out of my own reality from time to time.
> 
> Even as a woman I can tell you that watching porn definitely detaches me from the reality that is my hb, and I don't like that feeling. One of the things I really love about my current husband is that I can be vulnerable and still feel safe, and for a CSA survivor like me who also had a first husband who was abusive in many ways the feeling of being able to be vulnerable is like a huge weight off of my shoulders.


I can totally understand your view point here. I am so glad you have a supportive husband now. I am a CSA and Rape survivor myself, and pron definitely takes you out of the reality of sex sometimes. That is what I need as a survivor at times. 

I can totally understand about just being a "hole" and that is all to you first H. I have felt that way many times. I have a histroy of sexaual abuse in many forms and I have not choose to be in the sex industry. You have to be a chubby chaser to find what I have appealing any way. And that is something some folks like but I have no plans of going into that field of work no matter what my income needs are. 

I know that my response is different then most, I choose to watch female friendly porn and it has been the biggest help to me. I know there is gross and degrading things out there, but for me, the female friendly, man and woman, a story line, and passionate sex scenes have shown me that sex doesn't have to be what I have always known it to be. It can be loving (even if it is acting) and it can be satisfying to both parties (even if it is just acting), and guys do want to be with girls and not hurt them and rape them. It gave me a greater respect for men. I can't explain how much it helped me to see what love SHOULD look like, and what sex SHOULD look like. I have a limited amount of experience with sex in the context that it should be in. It was nice to see "Wow, this is what is ok for the girl to do" (touching her partner in appropriate sexual ways, and touching herself in appropriate sexual ways) I could have learned that stuff by sleeping around with multiple guys, instead I learned that while with one man, the one man I was married to. 

Like I said, I know my views of pron have been very untriditional, but it has been very helpful to me and I will never ever be able to explain what was done to me at the hands of someone else, and how very different "safe porn" was from that. In some sick way I suppose it was helpful to me. I'm not sure where this falls into relevance with in this thread I just needed to say what I have dealt with in terms of porn.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Big Mama said:


> I can totally understand your view point here. I am so glad you have a supportive husband now. I am a CSA and Rape survivor myself, and pron definitely takes you out of the reality of sex sometimes. That is what I need as a survivor at times.
> 
> I can totally understand about just being a "hole" and that is all to you first H. I have felt that way many times. I have a histroy of sexaual abuse in many forms and I have not choose to be in the sex industry. You have to be a chubby chaser to find what I have appealing any way. And that is something some folks like but I have no plans of going into that field of work no matter what my income needs are.
> 
> ...



Have you posted your story here? I think I remember it.....didn't you have the husband who wasn't all that concerned with what you liked or hated as long as it was what he wanted?

If so are you still married to him?

I'm sorry you've had to endure what you have.


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

Yep. That was me. When the H waned it he wanted it. He said things that reminded me a lot of my rapist. He didn't really care that I didn't want to do it and that I was participating with him only by providing my body. I was dissociated most of the time, I would cry after sex, during sex, vomit after sex, it was so triggering. During the times he was nice about sex, he kinda stated "I HAVE to have it once a week, you just pick the day." It was very much duty sex. During the times that he was actually willing to work on sex stuff from a survivors point of view we used an egg timer so that my "mental hell" would be over by a certain time, and I knew it was not going to go on and on forever trying the get me to have my "O" and enjoy it to. Cause in that context of sex it was not gonna happen any way. 

He was mentally abusive, and emotionally abusive as well. I was very much trapped in a controlling marriage with mental illnesses that had gotten totally out of control. My kids were not thriving in that environment. 

I am no longer with him. We are currently separated. My kids are thriving and I have a great T who is helping me work threw all this mess. Not sure what the future holds for me. It is one day at a time right now. I have PTSD, and dissociative disorders ( due to the sex abuse before marriage and maybe even after marriage to), and am a real mess really when it comes to relationships and sex. But right now I have neither and life is pretty good. I wake up and smile every day. I hear some one laughing and I realize it is me. It is something I have not heard in so long I forget what it was. I am a much happier person at the moment. Even the hard days of working threw my crap with the T, I can smile and be happy that I do not have to be enslaved sexually to someone else.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

This is interesting. 

*Utah lawmaker proposes legislation to make porn a 'public health crisis,' claims adult films are more addictive than cocaine
*
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...l-porn-public-health-crisis-article-1.2515580


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

durn, now that is a tough law to enforce.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I think you can tell which men are overly influenced by porn. They have a list of sex acts they require from women. They use terms like, put out, or get sex. The ultimate test is to say no, and they will go away. 

The more subtle effects is the expectation some men have for sex with their wives. They reason that their wives are the only ones they can try things on and they don't want to go the rest of their lives without getting it. 

The need is so great that they never stop to think of what they are asking, their wife to forgo pleasure or feel uncomfortable, or disconnected. Too many expectations of that type may cause LD for sex that is frustrating and stressful.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> I assume that the great majority of people who make home made porn also watch home made porn and are aware of its distribution. There are exhibitionists who enjoy the idea of being watched.
> 
> Of course some people are just doing it for the money, and some don't understand how widely it is distributed (*and some unscrupulous people post videos without consent*) but I think the majority understand the situation.


I meant solely from the angle of 'husband and wife tape themselves having sex for their own use, but hubby (or wife) surreptitiously uploads the video to a porn site without the other's knowledge'.

Or two people break up and one of them uploads their video(s) to a porn site.

Or somebody else entirely finds the video(s) (in the cloud, for example) and uploads them to a porn site. etc etc etc.

I wouldn't even want to guess at just how many "amateur" sex videos are uploaded to these sites without one (or even both) person's knowledge or consent. I would say probably a whole lot more than you and I think, unfortunately.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

alexm said:


> I meant solely from the angle of 'husband and wife tape themselves having sex for their own use, but hubby (or wife) surreptitiously uploads the video to a porn site without the other's knowledge'.
> 
> Or two people break up and one of them uploads their video(s) to a porn site.
> 
> ...


I believe that is called revenge porn?


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

OliviaG said:


> I think that this is an excellent insight Catherine. You see evidence of it just about every day here in this forum. It's insidious - many men seem to be unaware that regular porn viewing is setting them up for a lifetime of dissatisfaction with their partners and with their sex lives in general. And setting themselves up for very unhappy and dissatisfied wives too.
> 
> I never realized how much of a problem porn was in people's relationships until I came here. If I were to find myself dating again, I would not get too serious with anyone until I figured out what their relationship was to porn. It would have to be minimal to none or my attention would be elsewhere.


And for that matter, masturbation in general - not that I'm at all saying it's a bad thing!

But I've found that when I consciously not do it, it (obviously) increases my drive, and thus turns me into a more affectionate husband with his wife. She then feels that, then the over all experience (when it happens) is that much better, IMO. For both of us.

Passion for our spouse in general (physical and other ways) completely increases the quality of sex with them. As they say: "absence makes the heart grow fonder", and this is true in terms of sex, as well. (Obviously there's a finite point to how long this "absence" can go, but I digress..) If you can find a healthy balance that works for both partners, then you're laughing.

The first time I was intimate with my (now) wife, she hadn't been intimate with anybody in nearly a year (and I hadn't been in 4 or 5 months), and she didn't masturbate during that time, either. I wouldn't have been able to do that, but she's very much the "out of sight, out of mind" personality when it comes to sex. But once it was available to her and the entire topic was back in her mindset, it was ridiculous.

I have a pretty high drive, I think, and I find when I rely heavily on myself for any period of time (let's say a week), it's markedly less exciting and passionate when I actually have sex with my wife. Those times when I go a certain length of time with nothing (again, let's say a week), sex with my wife is noticeably more passionate and exciting, and generally "good". She notices, as well.

The problem is that many people make porn (and even masturbation without porn) a VERY regular part of their lives. I have no issue with either, but it all has to be balanced, IMO, so as to ensure a healthy level of interest and passion for your spouse remains.

It's unfortunate when some people find themselves in a position where their spouses drive does not match theirs, AT ALL. There's little else to turn to. But even then, porn and/or masturbation on a daily basis will still affect ones sex life, no matter how infrequent it is.

It's important to find a healthy balance between porn/masturbation and actual sex with one's spouse, regardless of how long the dry spells go. Even if sex is, say, once a month, therefore giving one a 3-4 week long dry spell, then one can certainly over-do it, IMO.

If my wife were to masturbate every day for 6 days, then on the 7th day we were to have sex, I would absolutely feel less passion from her. We went through a period of this several years ago, when she got her first vibrator and it was a novelty. As most of you here know, my wife really has little or no sex drive, however a vibrator was totally new and exciting and fun. During this period of time, it saw heavy use from her, and believe me when I tell you, when we did have sex (which the frequency did not increase or decrease during this period), it was noticeably less exciting, and she wasn't as into it and passionate.

As she really does not masturbate frequently in real life (save for that time a few years ago), her interest and passion with me is certainly very present, and I can feel it. If she had the drive I do, and went 6 days without any sexual release whatsoever, then I would REALLY feel her passion... And during the times where I do nothing for myself for certain periods of time, I KNOW she feels mine.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

EllisRedding said:


> I believe that is called revenge porn?


That can certainly be part of it, yes.

But how about the couples who are still together, make a video, then one or the other uploads it to some site without the other's knowledge?

We occasionally see posts here on TAM about dudes who get off by showing off their wives to others. Some of these threads are started by the women in these scenarios (as in 'my husband wants to show me off, share pictures, videos, whatever, and I'm not that into it').

It happens, and probably FAR more than we think it does.

My only issue is how to differentiate between watching something where both couples are aware and happy that others are watching them, and videos where one (or both) people in them are not at all aware. There's really no way to determine this.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

intheory said:


> I've often wondered about this too. Women in past generations had it rough in many ways; childbirth without anesthesia comes to mind right away.
> 
> But there was no "porn". Some men around here will argue this point to death. Citing murals in Pompeii, shards of ancient Greek pottery, the Kama Sutra, crude prehistoric sketches on cave walls, etc. etc., to "prove" that porn has always been available and prevalent. Willful obtusity.
> 
> ...


or they guy was introduced to sex with prostitute. And then he would go back there for the extra action, while performing missionary at home. So, those ladies had competition too.


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## Lionelhutz (Feb 2, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> I think you can tell which men are overly influenced by porn. They have a list of sex acts they require from women. They use terms like, put out, or get sex. The ultimate test is to say no, and they will go away.
> 
> The more subtle effects is the expectation some men have for sex with their wives. They reason that their wives are the only ones they can try things on and they don't want to go the rest of their lives without getting it.
> 
> The need is so great that they never stop to think of what they are asking, their wife to forgo pleasure or feel uncomfortable, or disconnected. Too many expectations of that type may cause LD for sex that is frustrating and stressful.


Do you have any empirical evidence to back up any of these sweeping statements? Specifically, that the net effect is a higher percentage of woman are dissatisfied in their marriage due to the sexual demands of their spouses now as opposed to twenty years ago? 

Why are people so desperate to have normative or shaming views of the preferences of others when it comes to sexuality?


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
Agreed, its really difficult to tell. Then there is a lot of "amateur for pay" porn (as if that concept made sense) where the couple makes money selling their videos. 






alexm said:


> I meant solely from the angle of 'husband and wife tape themselves having sex for their own use, but hubby (or wife) surreptitiously uploads the video to a porn site without the other's knowledge'.
> 
> Or two people break up and one of them uploads their video(s) to a porn site.
> 
> ...


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

OliviaG said:


> Good luck enforcing that! But he's probably just trying to get some attention for the issue, which is not a bad idea.


Ha ha, the same lawmaker probably has his own stash and three mistresses.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

intheory said:


> I agree that porn creates the illusion of a higher drive. Going with a food analogy. First we have basic pizza. Then double topping pizza. Then mega-meat-lovers pizza. Then mega-meat-lovers pizza with cheese stuffed crust. Then mega-meat-lovers pizza with cheese stuffed crust and bacon coating on the crust.
> 
> But really, a basic pepperoni pizza was fine for most Americans for decades.
> 
> ...



The bolded part is a fair question. I think the term HD is relative to who you are with. Relative to a healthy 18 year old male with his girlfriend, I would be considered comatose. Relative to my wife, I am high drive.

At 54 years of age, with heart disease, if it were not for Viagra, and testosterone I would probably be having zero sex. Currently, I am having the best sex of my life. Hell, I just turned down a trip to go ski with the guys for a week in Vermont. My exact words were "sorry, I would rather stay home and have fun with my wife."

If I were living the 1800's I would not only be having little to no sex, I would be dead because of my heart disease. The Viagra, testosterone along with Plavix, metoprolol, Lipitor and others are simply medications. With the medication comes a better quality of life. Sex is a big part of that "quality."

Furthermore, I believe it is up to the man to make certain the sex stays vibrant. As my wife told me after I complimented her on some great sex, "you taught me all I know." I want to keep it that way, till I die. Therefore, I will do whatever I can to keep my mind and body as strong as possible.

In regards to porn (this may be hard for you to believe) I do not orgasm when I watch it alone. Most of the time I just watch and don't even masturbate. I try to stimulate my mind in order to want my wife more. It enables me to ravish my wife more than without it.
I will concede that if I masturbated to conclusion while watching porn that would definitely take away from my relationship.

I can HONESTLY tell you that after 24 years of marriage I am currently having the MOST amazing sex with my wife. 99% of the time we have sex I shake my head in disbelief because it's so good.

Porn, Viagra and Testosterone along with TAM have played a big part in this fact. That's simply the truth.

BTW: I WANT to be high drive, I WANT to WANT my wife.
Does not every wife desire to be WANTED by their husband? If not, they should.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Lionelhutz said:


> Do you have any empirical evidence to back up any of these sweeping statements? Specifically, that the net effect is a higher percentage of woman are dissatisfied in their marriage due to the sexual demands of their spouses now as opposed to twenty years ago?
> 
> Why are people so desperate to have normative or shaming views of the preferences of others when it comes to sexuality?


Have I shamed you? I didn't mean to do so. I will try and find a scholarly source for my statements and include a list of references in my post from now on. 

Did I say that a higher number of women are dissatisfied due to porn? The data seems to indicate that most women have problems with their husbands watching internet porn. There has always been sexual dissatisfaction among men and women. 

I don't know if it has increased in the internet porn era. However, being careful not to focus on one-sided porn sex and more on partnered sex and mutual sexual pleasure is still good advice, no? 

You are concerned about shame so here something real for you. The revenge porn stuff is interesting. Why is a video made by 2 adults in private then used by a bitter ex to shame the woman? 

No one ever exposes the man and shames him or the betrayal but they gang up on the woman and heap shame. She was having sex in a relationship with someone she trusted and loved. What is the message you get?

Porn is not harmless in that it has very harmful elements. People who watch porn are not evil or bad or shameful. I live with a man who watches porn and he is a better person than I am and I don't watch porn.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Catherine602 said:


> I live with a man who watches porn and he is a better person than I am and I don't watch porn.


So basically, for personal growth and to better yourself, sounds like you need to watch porn, you owe it to your man :grin2:


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

EllisRedding said:


> So basically, for personal growth and to better yourself, sounds like you need to watch porn, you owe it to your man :grin2:


 :lol::lol::lol::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

I'm having a hard time breathing from laughing so hard. I have got to show this one to my husband.


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## Lionelhutz (Feb 2, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> Have I shamed you? I didn't mean to do so.


Me personally? No but does it matter? Would it change the value of my comments or your response to it? But regardless of your stated intention, the language choices in earlier posts are unmistakably judgmental.



> Did I say that a higher number of women are dissatisfied due to porn?


No, You said



> The more subtle effects is the expectation some men have for sex with their wives. They reason that their wives are the only ones they can try things on and they don't want to go the rest of their lives without getting it.
> 
> The need is so great that they never stop to think of what they are asking, their wife to forgo pleasure or feel uncomfortable, or disconnected. Too many expectations of that type may cause LD for sex that is frustrating and stressful.


So the question is whether these supposed consequences are widely felt and whether they have manifested themselves as a net negative consequence in marital sexual satisfaction for women.



> You are concerned about shame so here something real for you. The revenge porn stuff is interesting. Why is a video made by 2 adults in private then used by a bitter ex to shame the woman?
> 
> No one ever exposes the man and shames him or the betrayal but they gang up on the


Just so we are clear, you are raising a new topic "revenge porn". The non-consensual release of erotic or personal imagines intended to cause harm. An absolute wrong as is child porn or snuff porn.

And yes there is typically a double standard applied by both women and men that it is intended to shame the woman far more so than the man. 

It is sad and wrong and even with the typical emotions in a bad break-up, anyone who would breach someone's trust in that way is scum. Thus my concern with the shaming of anyone's consensual sexual choices including women who participate in porn (amateur or otherwise) and whose decisions can't be readily seen as less valid than yours or automatically discounted by labeling them as inevitably "victims".


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

OliviaG said:


> This one does! If every husband made as much effort as you do, there would be a lot more happy wives out there. Maybe even world peace.


Haha, I am all for world peace, because everyone is getting a piece :grin2:


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

On the topic of porn, I had completely forgotten about this. Way back in my college days I had ordered a porn DVD online (I Think Babewatch lol). I was paranoid because it would be delivered to my dorm where I was living, and i was worried the package what make it obvious what I ordered. The site assured me that the packaging was discrete so I decided to pull the trigger. UPS tried to deliver the package but for whatever reason couldn't, so they left me a slip to g o pick up at one of their sites. I head out to UPS, give them my slip, and they proceed to give me a big box, of which all along the box in big bold letters it stated:

"Hemorrhoid Cream, 2 dozen 12oz tubes"

Did I mention there was a long line behind me, so as I grabbed my "hemorrhoid" box and walked out, everyone could clearly see what the box said. I would have rather the box said "Boobies" everywhere lol.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

@Lionelhutz You are targeting the wrong person. I don't feel the need or desire to judge or to create or engage in useless conflict. 

This thread is an exchange and a valuable one at that. There is no reason to create discord. I will post exactly what I feel with no reference to you or what you think I mean.


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## Kilgoretrout (Feb 2, 2016)

Catherine602 said:


> Or it could be that porn creates sexual needs that are impossible to meet? Porn is created for men by men and the women are essential props.
> 
> Early in my marriage, my husband asked me to watch porn with him. I did it a few times and tried to like it but all I felt was sadness. It was obvious that the whole thing had nothing to do with pleasing women or love or caring.
> 
> ...


I think that is true. Porn is all about the men getting off - women are just tools. As a guy I find that off putting bc it's not how prefer sex
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I don't think men prefer one-sided sex, both men and women come to accept a certain amount of unilateral sex as a matter of course. I think it's partly cultural. We don't usually question cultural norms so its no ones fault. Problems arise when one person feels they are giving more than they get. I don't think men are trying to be deliberately selfish. Men and women adapt to the culture, so men can hardly be blamed for that. 

Human nature is stronger than culture though. A long-term partner can be generous and giving for a while but not endlessly so. There has to be a balance so the giver does not feel used or get bored. It's worth considering with a LD spouse.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

intheory said:


> Why do you assume he and his wife would be "performing missionary" at home? Why do you assume that people 100+ years ago couldn't naturally try different sexual positions with each other?
> 
> After the industrial revolution towards the end of the 19th century; what you describe became more common. People had to begin moving to cities and working in factories.
> 
> ...


I tend to agree. I think people have been having crazy and wild sex since the beginning of time.

Here's the thing - throughout human history, each generation has thought the one before it was quiet and reserved, and that generation thought the one after it was wild and crazy.

I'm old enough to remember a time before the internet, but also young enough to know what it's like to be always connected. What my 15 year old knows about things like sex blows my mind. At his age, I knew "penis goes in vagina". He probably thinks his mom and I are super-lame and reserved.

In short, we all seem to think previous generations didn't know what we know now, but the truth is, they most certainly did. The topic of sexuality is now more out in the open than it has been in the last 100+ years. But historians know that there have been times throughout history (as well as certain cultures) in which it has been more open.

At some point, sexuality became taboo, particularly in North American culture. You can blame puritanical leaders for that, men in general, a culture heavily influenced by religion, whatever. But that doesn't mean it wasn't practiced behind closed doors - it just wasn't talked about in public.

But trust me, our grandparents, and great-grandparents were doing more than missionary... They just didn't talk about it, as we do now.

It's not the practices that have changed, it's the more open attitudes many of us have towards sex, as well as forums such as this one in which to discuss the topic.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

OliviaG said:


> I couldn't agree more. So out of this conversation have come two critical points about porn use in marriage:
> 
> 1) Don't forget it's not realistic, i.e. don't let it alter your expectations of your spouse. (The problem with this is that I don't know if it's possible to watch much of it and not have your expectations altered. We are not in control of many things happening in our brains, especially with regards to sex and attraction.)
> 
> 2) Don't let it diminish your desire and passion for your spouse. (This second point applies equally to MB).


I agree in principle with these rules, but the thing is, everybody's different.

I can drink copious amounts of booze at one time, then not touch the stuff for months. I spent the bulk of my later teenage years in a drunken stupor every Friday and Saturday night (and usually just most of Saturday DAY as well). During summer break, it was pretty much a 7-day-a-week drunk fest.

But I never became an alcoholic, even during those years. It wasn't a need for alcohol, despite the amazing amount I ingested.

When it comes to porn, and even masturbation, I'm very much like that. Apart from smoking cigarettes, I don't think I have an addictive personality. Even with cigarettes, I can go long stretches at a time without (if circumstances dictate that I can't smoke, then I won't, and I won't stress about it).

I'm not alone with this type of personality, but there are, unfortunately, people who are the exact opposite, and they end up NEEDING alcohol, tobacco, drugs, or yes, porn, in their lives constantly. The rules above don't apply to them.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

The thing that's always struck me about porn is the inherent hypocrisy of it. Few guys (or women) want their daughter doing it as they don't want men getting off to their daughter and they don't want their daughter being used as a receptacle. Yet they can get off to other mens' daughters. 

The argument that usually follows is well I don't want my daughter picking up trash for a living but I still utilize the service. Ok, that's true, but it's not a fair comparison. You likely don't want your daughter picking up trash because you think she can do better, but picking up trash is a perfectly honest, respectable living. 

Be honest. The reaction most guys would have to their daughter doing porn is completely different then the one you'd have if your daughter picked up trash.

So I do think the question is worth asking: if you consume porn would you be ok with your daughter doing it? If not why not? Why is it ok for you to get off to someone else's daughter but other men shouldn't be able to get off to your daughter? 

I brought this up last time my hb contemplated going to a strip club for a bachelor party. I brought up how good his daughter (about 24 at the time) would look stripping. Did not go over well and he didn't go. I think most of the hb's ended up dropping out of that one. 

I'd really like to hear thoughts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lionelhutz (Feb 2, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> @Lionelhutz You are targeting the wrong person. I don't feel the need or desire to judge or to create or engage in useless conflict.
> 
> .


I'm sorry if you felt wrongly targeted rather then your ideas challenged. 

My reaction was based on a series of past posts, and not just yours, that seemed to be setting a normative tone about what does and does not constitute proper marital sex apart from any sex which is mutually pleasurable. If that wasn't your intention then I apologize and I mean that sincerely and not as a rhetorical posture. 



Porn, as with alcohol, "realty" TV programming and most other forms of self-indulgent pleasure/entertainment, is often an easy target since few want to be seen as "for" it and then be put in the position of defending it's every use and application.

If a partner is troubled by the other partner's use of porn use then it is a legitimate issue and there is no need to reference the wider use or acceptance of porn in society. 

The impulse for experimentation and variety is not surprising for those with a high drive with or without porn. On the other hand, if you have a willing spouse and yet still find yourself perpetually dissatisfied then you may need to take stock about why you feel that way and whether it is the feeling itself that is the problem.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> So I do think the question is worth asking: if you consume porn would you be ok with your daughter doing it? * If not why not? * Why is it ok for you to get off to someone else's daughter but other men shouldn't be able to get off to your daughter?
> 
> I'd really like to hear thoughts.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think the answer is that we are all *instinctually opposed to incest * in a very strong way (let's NOT argue about the exceptions of those that like incest). We would not want our daughter doing porn for the same reason we would not want any immediate family member doing porn (siblings, parents, & children regardless of gender).

We also are also *instinctually opposed to child molestation* in a very strong way. Many fathers still see their grown daughters as a young child. So the idea of a father that might encourage his daughter to do porn at any age, would very likely be perceived as somewhat of a child molester by himself and most of society. 

Why are we OK with "any other grown adults" doing this? Because they can easily be seen and reviewed as potential mates. The very first time I looked at porn, I thought to myself that I would be so lucky to marry any one of these women that know how to enjoy sex and please their man. I also looked at this at the time exclusively as a learning opportunity as I had never even seen a vagina before. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

intheory said:


> UMP,
> 
> I *do* realize that porn, testosterone and Viagra are creating most of your sex drive, at this point in your life. IIRC, you also take ibuprofen(?) because Viagra gives you headaches. And, I seem to recall that you also have to take some sort of sinus decongestant (also related to Viagra side-effects, but forgive me, I don't remember what particular side-effect that was).
> 
> ...


To me porn is like any other vice. You name it, alcohol, cigarettes, weed, golf, poker, sports betting, etc. etc. etc. When it controls you it's bad, when you control it, it can actually be a positive.

The founder of Shell Oil Company used to have only ONE cigarette per day. He always had it in the same location in his garden and the same time of day. THAT is the kind of control necessary but not always possible. I can certainly see a younger, weaker man being completely consumed with porn. There were a few years of my life like this too.

As a boy growing up in the 1960's, 70's with little to zero sex education, porn was the ONLY reference I had. To your point, yes, the benchmark was porn. I just assumed that's the way sex was supposed to be. No body sat me down and said this is the way you are to make love to a woman.

On the flip side to this, porn is a reflection of a mans sensual mind. Yes, made for men. I believe this is why many men cheat or have a mistress on the side. They have seen porn and their wives may look just like the women in porn, yet they don't want to do those things or act that way.

I just had a conversation with my wife last night on why men cheat. I said that men want the motherly figure at home and the forbidden sleezy fruit on the side. I told her that the key to a successful marriage regarding sex is to combine both aspects into one person. My wife IS that person. She is a great mother and great wife, but she also tries her best to accommodate my kinky mind. So in my wifes case, watching the porn has given her ideas, given her insight into the dark recesses of the male sexual mind.

I give a bit and she gives a bit, so we both head toward that nirvana. My wife also told me last night that she thought that men cheated because the sex gets old, that men and women like the "newness" of forbidden sex. I replied with "everytime I have sex with you it's new." She liked that, a lot :grin2:


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

OliviaG said:


> I doubt he does. I doubt he even looks. Like badsanta said above, normal people have an aversion to incest.


Agreed. I think as well, of course I would not want my daughter to do porn. However, if I were to watch porn the females are not my daughter so it is very easier to disassociate the two. It is not like I see an attractive female and my first instinct it to think about my daughter (that would just be sick lol).


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## Lionelhutz (Feb 2, 2012)

intheory said:


> Kind of related to that @lifeistooshort , I've always wondered how the fathers, grandfathers, brothers, uncles, male cousins of women who are centerfolds/porn performers/strippers feel when they see their daughter posed, butt in the air, or legs spread in a magazine.
> 
> Or, seen her "films". Or gone to watch her performance "dancing".
> 
> ...


I'm not sure the reaction is all that difficult to understand. if it was me, for most purposes most of the time, I generally prefer to think of all my relatives as non-sexual beings, thus making any blatant demonstration of their sexuality uncomfortable.

As for strippers and centerfolds, my reaction would be concern in part because of the social stigma even if I think, and I do, the social stigma is unfair. The other concern would be practical. A short career in which young inexperienced and mostly uneducated people are given what may seem like a lot of money quickly for short term work means a high probability of self-destructive behaviors, financial exploitation and no planning for the future. 

So in short, I would hope for better and very strongly argue against such a career path, but ultimately have to acknowledge that as an adult the choice is hers.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

intheory said:


> What is wrong with finding out how sex works with your wife? What is wrong with waiting until you are actually with a real, flesh and blood woman, in order to see a vagina?
> 
> Is it pride? You can't bear being vulnerable, and admitting to a woman that you don't know about sex and vaginas?
> 
> ...


Part of the problem, this assumes you wait to have sex until you are married. I have no clue what the % is of people that wait now but assuming it is low, people are going to turn to other areas to learn about sex and what they are supposed to do. The downside of course is that sex portrayed in much of today's porn is so far from how it actually is.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
A lot of sex isn't something you can just figure out. There are people who have been having sex for a long time who have never figured out what it takes to please their partners.

Porn is not a particularly good guide - books are generally much better. But it can provide some useful information as long as the viewer can recognize the difference between the porn that realistically shows sex, and the unrealistic porn.






intheory said:


> snip
> What is wrong with finding out how sex works with your wife? What is wrong with waiting until you are actually with a real, flesh and blood woman, in order to see a vagina?
> snip


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
on the other hand there are adults who still think that oral sex, and any position other than missionary is a perversion. 

"normal / natural" is a much broader range than most people think. 



intheory said:


> I know. We can't have that. That's crazy talk.:wink2:
> 
> But filmed depictions of gangbangs and double penetrations? What's wrong with that. That's perfectly "natural"


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

intheory said:


> To me, porn is a unique vice. But that's irrelevant.
> 
> I do appreciate your frankness, UMP. Even though we have zero in common and would probably hate each other irl.
> 
> ...


If we both grew up in Eden, I would agree with you. However, as you know, we live in a corrupt evil world. I grew up never going to church and at the ripe age of 9 I found a stack of porn in my dads closet. How, may I ask, was I supposed to turn that down?

As far as sex education, it WAS my sex education from the age of 9. I cannot change that, it simply was and IS for millions upon millions upon millions of boys. I tried my best keeping the internet out of our home. I held out for dear life. No smart phones, no internet. At some point, I just gave up because my family could not function. I cannot keep evil away from my kids. I can however pray that God keep evil from them and do my very best as a father and husband. The rest is out of my hands.

I am learning to please my wife. After 24 years she does tell me what she likes, more or less. I also show her what kind of stuff I like in moderate porn. I do prefer the 1960's stuff. It's more female friendly in my opinion and the "actors" seem to "act" less than the new stuff.

Let me use an example. THE blowjob. A woman can read all she wants to read and try all she wants to try. However, I can find one incredibly erotic bj in porn that I can tell is authentically enjoyed by both parties and show her what I like. She can learn more about what I like in 10 minutes than 10 years of any other method. I can tell her what I want, but as they say, a picture speaks a thousand words.

Does that make porn right for the masses? No, it does not. Can I use porn to intensify sex with my wife? OH YES, I CAN and I do.

Porn is similar to a loaded pistol. It can cause extreme devastation. Yet a pistol can also protect my entire family from such, if need be.


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## Lionelhutz (Feb 2, 2012)

OliviaG said:


> I'm probably more cynical than most people, but I wonder if the "documentary's" purpose, in reality, was to promote porn. "See, we're all normal people and this is just a job!"


It's not cynical. All documentaries have a point of view even the one's you happen to agree with. 


I think the most clear headed documentaries I have seen were the two episodes Louis Theroux did on the porn industry. It certainly wasn't "pro" porn and showed lots of the down side of the industry, but on the other hand it showed variety of people drawn to porn for a variety of reasons and stayed away from most simplistic cliches and conclusions.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

intheory said:


> How did ordinary people learn how to have sex before pornography? (Mass media pornography; not Greek vases or nude oil paintings)


During the days of the Roman Empire, it was considered a man's "civic duty" to visit the local brothels. As to "why" this was, I can only speculate:

• A man with sexual tension is not easy to govern.
• Women working in brothels needed patrons to remain in business. 
• Visiting brothels would likely teach a man to be a better lover once he married. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

intheory said:


> Yuck to your approach to blowjobs. Utterly repulsive. But as Mrs. UMP happily shares your outlook on the subject; that's all that matters.
> 
> I can see where a loaded pistol could save your family. Don't see how porn can do the same.
> 
> I guess we've got to agree to disagree. ((shakes hand virtually))


Yes, I could only use the pistol in the saving the family analogy:smile2:

My "approach to blowjobs is utterly repulsive?" INDEED it is!
That's EXACTLY my point! AND, that's exactly what my wife said :grin2:

You know what? A mans REAL sexual core IS "utterly repulsive" to a (some)woman. However, my wife is learning and enjoying, and it's becoming heaven on earth.

You must understand that a mans sexual mind IS twisted, it IS repulsive, it is base. Who do you think produced all that nasty porn? Why do you think they produced it? Because that is what men REALLY like.

Would it not interest a women in knowing what men really like in regards to sex? Not saying my wife should or would do all the things in porn, yet she can get a glimpse into my sexual mind. That's 99% of the battle anyway. N'est pas?


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

UMP said:


> You must understand that a mans sexual mind IS twisted, it IS repulsive, it is base. Who do you think produced all that nasty porn? Why do you think they produced it? Because that is what men REALLY like.


You know, when I watch a porn and the opening frame is something like this











But you freak out with the woman enthusiastically screaming, "Mehr, mehr, mehr!" and then the camera pans around only to see that she is capable of dragging an industrialized sized plow that is attached to her vagina while her husband chases behind her peeing everywhere. 

...I'll admit it really traumatizes me, but yet I find the experience rather thought provoking and I actually "learn" something new about myself.

Badsanta


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

badsanta said:


> You know, when I watch a porn and the opening frame is something like this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Um, not THAT repulsive, although I have no doubt some might.
I defer to the Clintons for further research on this undiscovered fringe.:grin2:


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

peacem said:


> btw - women have very dirty fantasies too, it's a myth that we just want to think about 'nice' things. My husband often looks horrified when i describe mine :surprise:. I find his a bit dull so he has to spice them up a bit for me (not sure he is being 100% honest :grin2.


good for you!


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Really one of the big issues is there is still this underlying assumption that guys are just supposed to know what to do when it comes to sex / women, at least the "real men". Combine that pressure with porn being used as a learning tutorial, and well, you get where we are now lol.

Of course the big question, how do we fix this?

I would also go one step further. This is not just a male issue. This is also a female issue, being comfortable with their sexuality and being able to explain to a man what they like/don't like (otherwise you get the porn treatment lol).


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

intheory said:


> But, it looks like somehow, your wife is interested in exactly the same style of sex as you; so she's getting all her needs met too. I'm sure.


Not exactly. She does some things I like the way I like it, and I do some things she likes the way she likes it.
I have yet to see a porn movie start with a 30 minute back rub before they even have their cloths off.
Yet I do this because it turns her on. In return she gets nasty with me. It's a compromise that ends up satisfying for both of us.

I think that's the way it should be.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Because I have not said it yet this month . . . Badsanta, you are hilarious!


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

OliviaG said:


> I think that the relationship can also get tired. Even when the sex is great, people for some reason can stop saying those things like "everytime I have sex with you it's new" to their spouses. This type of communication is important. For one, it's reassuring to your partner. For another, it lights a flame inside her/him (or adds fuel to one that's already lit).
> 
> We were out the other night, had a great time, came home and my husband said to me "You were the sexiest woman at (the event) tonight". Filled me up, made me feel desired, appreciated and loved. Added some fuel to the second event of the evening.
> 
> These are the kinds of things that we say to each other frequently in a newer relationship, but it can tail off as time goes by. I guess we think that our partner already *knows* we feel this way so we don't need to keep telling them. But we should.


BTW- We did watch "Bride Flight" last Friday. I really paid close attention. The entire movie was foreplay for ONE soft core porn scene. I DID enjoy the movie but I enjoyed understanding the female mind even better.

My conclusion is i must provide much MORE mental foreplay. When you think you did enough, do more, and then some more after that. The build up was epic. You women are very different than men, that's for damn sure. However, I CAN and WILL adapt. 

Thanks for the reference, it was a great movie.:grin2:


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

intheory said:


> For the record, *I asked my husband how to go down on him, to show me exactly what he wanted and where he wanted it. * He told me and I do those things.
> .


I am sorry, but I am cracking up here imagining you handing your hubby a banana and asking him to show you lol.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

intheory said:


> For the record, I asked my husband how to go down on him, to show me exactly what he wanted and where he wanted it. He told me and I do those things.
> 
> And the same the other way around. I ask him to do what I want directly and specifically.
> 
> ...


The most important part of the blow job is not mechanical it's mental. A man wants his woman to treat his penis as if it is a glass of water after a 6 hour hike through the Sahara desert.
I know it's asking a lot, but that's what we like :grin2:


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

intheory said:


> No, if you can imagine, I actually learned while putting his penis in my mouth. :surprise: And getting feedback and instruction.
> 
> And sometimes just asking, while playing with him and licking and sucking him; what he liked, did he like this or that . . . .and so on and so forth.
> 
> No bananas required.


I was just joking, I didn't think you actually gave him a banana and asked him to show you lol.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

intheory said:


> Well, it takes him about 2 minutes to come; so he must be fine with what he's asked me to do; I'm guessing.
> 
> Or maybe you know him better than I do??


That's the other thing I had to work on. It was SOOO difficult for me to just sit there and enjoy it. For some reason, I had to try and cum as FAST as possible(my own doing). He might enjoy it if you tell him before hand "honey, I want you to sit and relax. Please take as long as you possibly can so that you can enjoy this as much as I do."

You'll have a new Cadillac waiting for you in the driveway the next morning. :grin2:


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

OliviaG said:


> I don't really see what's so difficult about it, but then again it's probably just because I never had any difficulty with sex. I didn't *expect* my husband to know everything there is to know about sex. But you try things, you observe your partner's reactions, you try other things, you observe your partner's reactions...etc., etc., etc.. I don't think I ever have explained, in words, what I like to my husband, but he figured it out pretty quickly. I've never had complaints from my partner about being unfulfilled sexually, and he's not had to instruct me in words, either.
> 
> Yes, being generally uninhibited, willing to try stuff and have fun with it is a prerequisite. If you don't have that, you're likely in trouble.


I wonder what percentage of people though are truly uninhibited enough to talk about stuff like this with their SO? With my W we have always had a good marriage, been fairly open with each other, but I would say that it hasn't been until more recent where I feel like we both feel completely comfortable talking about our likes/dislikes. Funny enough for me it is pretty easy conversation about my likes/dislikes, I like having sex and dislike not having sex . This has more to do with the fact that that we are constantly toeing the line of what could be considered a sexless marriage though. 

How many couples never get to that point where they are comfortable enough with each other, never have the patience to see things through, maybe feel like talking about their likes is selfish, don't want to hurt the other person's feelings, etc...? Combine with with drive mismatches and other marital issues, and you can see where this becomes a messy subject.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

intheory said:


> Cadillacs don't interest me. Not all woman have sex for money. Or need periodical weekend vacation getaways to keep them interested.


Just a joke, darling.

It was my twisted way of describing how thankful he will be.:grin2:

Interestingly enough, if I EVER insinuate giving something to my wife for a "sex act" it will send her to the moon with anger, and I don't blame her one bit.

BTW- I like your signature.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> I wonder what percentage of people though are truly uninhibited enough to talk about stuff like this with their SO? With my W we have always had a good marriage, been fairly open with each other, but I would say that it hasn't been until more recent where I feel like we both feel completely comfortable talking about our likes/dislikes. Funny enough for me it is pretty easy conversation about my likes/dislikes, I like having sex and dislike not having sex . This has more to do with the fact that that we are constantly toeing the line of what could be considered a sexless marriage though.
> 
> How many couples never get to that point where they are comfortable enough with each other, never have the patience to see things through, maybe feel like talking about their likes is selfish, don't want to hurt the other person's feelings, etc...? Combine with with drive mismatches and other marital issues, and you can see where this becomes a messy subject.


It is so very difficult, but so very necessary. It's also kind of erotic talking about stuff like this with my wife (for both of us).
I like to get as graphic as possible (imagine that

I constantly want my wife to tell me the truth. I don't want ANYTHING sugar coated. "Tell me like it is, because I WILL tell you what I think."


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

UMP said:


> It is so very difficult, but so very necessary. It's also kind of erotic talking about stuff like this with my wife (for both of us).
> I like to get as graphic as possible (imagine that
> 
> I constantly want my wife to tell me the truth. I don't want ANYTHING sugar coated. "Tell me like it is, because I WILL tell you what I think."


Agreed. I don;t think my wife and I have ever really needed to get too graphic, but we do both have a much better sense of what each other likes. 

Going back to the banana discussion, I wonder what most women would think if let's say they gave their H a banana and asked him to show them what they like, and then he worked over the banana like he knew exactly what he was doing! This could be like one of those hidden camera videos lol.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

OliviaG said:


> Sometimes I wonder if there can be too much talking (directly) about sex(ual likes and dislikes) and not enough doing.
> 
> For me, talking about likes and dislikes, verbal instructions and requests would take a lot of the magic out of it. It's like trying to dissect a joke to figure out what makes it funny - do that and you kill the humour.
> 
> ...


I completely agree with the bolded. I read that "She Comes First" book a few months back, made some adjustments to my game, didn't tell my wife, but it was quite obvious she noticed the changes. Honestly that made it more exciting for me than if I had told her I was reading X book and was going to do Y & Z .... This combined with other cues, along with talking about things, seems to have worked best. Now I just need to figure out a way to pawn off our kids for months at a time so we can try to resume a normal sex life lol.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

intheory said:


> If you say so, hon'.
> 
> I don't think I'll be taking sex advice from someone who has to watch porn to get excited enough to have sex with his wife; and has to take Viagra to maintain that erection.
> 
> To each their own.


I don't "have" to watch porn.
I don't "have" to take Viagra.
I don't have to take testosterone cream.

I choose to watch porn.
I choose to take Viagra.
I choose to take testosterone cream.
I choose to give my wife earth shattering orgasms, as well as myself. Anything I can do, short of inviting someone else into our marriage bed, I choose to do.

I choose to do these things to enhance my sexual relationship with my wife of 24 years. She is one of the most precious gifts God has given me. I intend to use up every ounce of semen I have, on her.(figuratively and literally)

Till death do us part.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> I can't look at animal cruelty videos either, even rescue videos are too much.
> 
> People say that women do porn for the money, attention and that they like sex but I don't believe it is as benign as that. Many of these women have been abused as children and think that the only way to be loved or liked is to offer sex. Some are very young and talked into doing porn for the money.
> 
> If porn actresses like sex then they must find porn frustrating. The only body parts that are touched is the mouth, vj and anus and only with a penis. They don't orgasm, and they are not held, hugged or even looked at.


I've known women that hate the whole cuddling and warm and fuzzy aspects of sex and only want the ****ing. And have many Os. 

In fact, I've heard complaints of partners that try to get all cuddly about it, and it turns them off. 

I've also known women that are far more into porn than I ever was. 

I guess you just hear about that kind of stuff less.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

OliviaG said:


> This is a winning strategy, IMO.  Now, just figure out a way to pawn off the kids for one night per week - that's probably do-able.


Haha, I wish. Right now pawning the kids off for maybe 1 night a month is a win (since we have had our daughter who is 2 now, on top of two older boys, I would say my wife and I have had a total 5 nights alone in over 2 years, no joke) :redcard: . I have actually been taking days off from work here and there since that is pretty much the only way I can guarantee we can get the house kid free for a considerable amount of time while they are at school. It is only February though, I have to slow down or I will use up all my vacation by June lol. 



intheory said:


> @EllisRedding
> 
> Or you could use Yoga to center your mind and body :grin2:


There is a chance if I ever got into a yoga position I may never get out of it ....


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

intheory said:


> Well, your wife apparently doesn't like watching porn. That seems to be HER authentic, personal desire.
> 
> If she is as precious and valuable as you indicate; stop trying to get her to watch it; if you respect her desires and preferences.
> 
> If you don't *need* Viagra and testosterone; then stop using them. They come with a boatload of potential side effects.


Don't believe I shove my agenda down my wifes throat. Such is NOT the case. Patience and compromise.

She did not want to do a lot of things in years past. Progress is measured in months, not minutes.
If I stop trying different things because of simple push back from her, we would go no where, fast. Life is full of compromises. I compromise, she compromises. On the flip side, I have learned much to please her as well. Things that were authentically my "preference" have changed in time too. Life is NEVER static. 

At 54 years of age, I feel better than I can ever remember. I "feel" like I am 30 years old. I not only "choose" Viagra, porn and testosterone, I genuinely prefer it. My doctor/s agree, one being a world renown cardiologist on the cutting edge of his field. All things in moderation, as well.

I will end this interesting banter with you with a funny story. A week or so after my near fatal heart attack, I had an appointment with this very well known "cardiologist" I talk about, with my wife by my side. The first thing I asked him was, and I quote "when can I have sex again?" Without blinking, he responded "with your wife?" :grin2:


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

intheory said:


> I was only going by your original post.
> 
> By all means, keep asking your wife to do things that she "pushes back from".


Now wait a minute-

In my marriage, but for asking for things that my wife "pushes back from", we'd 30 years later still be having missionary sex in the dark with no foreplay. 

There's nothing wrong with trying to expand your spouse's sexual horizons a little, as long as you're respectful.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

In order to lighten things up a little :grin2:


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

intheory said:


> And push, and push, and push, and push . . . .as the case may be.


At that rate, I can only last about five minutes.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
The question of how much to "push" is really tricky. Some people enter marriages / relationships with very limited ideas of sex. Should a woman "push her husband to do more if his idea of sex is missionary with no foreplay?

Pushing can be tricky. Its greatly extended the range of things I do with my wife - for her enjoyment as well as mine. But I have sometimes pushed for things that she really didn't want to do, rather than was just a bit shy about trying. 






Cletus said:


> Now wait a minute-
> 
> In my marriage, but for asking for things that my wife "pushes back from", we'd 30 years later still be having missionary sex in the dark with no foreplay.
> 
> There's nothing wrong with trying to expand your spouse's sexual horizons a little, as long as you're respectful.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

OliviaG said:


> Lol...thanks Ellis!


Here are two more to hopefully lighten the mood :grin2:










The below one, I don't know if it is a guy thing or possibly b/c I can relate back in my younger days  but I was laughing hard for a good 5 minutes when I first saw this.










OK, back to the regularly scheduled program :grin2:


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> Here are two more to hopefully lighten the mood :grin2:


Ha ha, it is usually this:










...that sends men to watch porn.

Badsanta


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Probably won't make me any friends but here's a study:

Can Porn Shrink Your Brain?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> The question of how much to "push" is really tricky. Some people enter marriages / relationships with very limited ideas of sex. Should a woman "push her husband to do more if his idea of sex is missionary with no foreplay?
> 
> Pushing can be tricky. Its greatly extended the range of things I do with my wife - for her enjoyment as well as mine. But I have sometimes pushed for things that she really didn't want to do, rather than was just a bit shy about trying.


Encourage trying new things, but never fixate on a specific act. 

That's when you get into trouble. When you won't let the specific thing she doesn't want to do go.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fitnessfan (Nov 18, 2014)

Back to the original questions:



UMP said:


> I am 54 and have been into some sort of porn since puberty. It is NOT an obsession for me. In fact, alone, I find it boring. I do try to periodically introduce porn in the bedroom with my wife. Last night before sex my wife and I had a candid talk about porn. Apparently it does absolutely nothing for my wife. She does not mind when it's on but has zero desire to watch. She is just into me and has no interest in looking at others having sex. She also stated that watching actually turns her off.
> 
> As a man, this makes no sense to me. If possible, I would like to try and understand the female mind in regards to porn. I know men are more visual than women, but I read in many places that some women like porn as much or even more than men do.
> 
> ...


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

marduk said:


> I've known women that hate the whole cuddling and warm and fuzzy aspects of sex and only want the ****ing. And have many Os.
> 
> In fact, I've heard complaints of partners that try to get all cuddly about it, and it turns them off.
> 
> ...


Thanks for reminding me that its better to know what your partner wants and likes and avoid assumptions based on gender.


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## Kilgoretrout (Feb 2, 2016)

Catherine602 said:


> I don't think men prefer one-sided sex, both men and women come to accept a certain amount of unilateral sex as a matter of course. I think it's partly cultural. We don't usually question cultural norms so its no ones fault. Problems arise when one person feels they are giving more than they get. I don't think men are trying to be deliberately selfish. Men and women adapt to the culture, so men can hardly be blamed for that.
> 
> Human nature is stronger than culture though. A long-term partner can be generous and giving for a while but not endlessly so. There has to be a balance so the giver does not feel used or get bored. It's worth considering with a LD spouse.


Right but porn can distort what is mutual pleasure and what is selfish (not to mention how big a normal penis is - lol)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> I am sorry, but I am cracking up here imagining you handing your hubby a banana and asking him to show you lol.


Even after all the horrible things I have been threw, this response makes me laugh. Thank you soooo much. 

If I had to demonstrate on a banana what I would do to a man, I would bit the end of the banana off. I was raped and forced to have oral sex.(not by mus husband) Now I hate oral. I Totally HATE it!! My H asks me to do it from time to time, and it turns into a disagreement every time. It never ends well. I have told him do not go there, I do not do that. I will do a lot of things, but not that. And he knows my past history and he still wants what he wants.

Next time I think I need to get a banana offer to demonstrate, deep throat it, and then bit the end off. Bet he wan't ask again. 

There is an excellent instructional though for those who need some assistance in the oral department. Try looking up Jack Lawrence How to eat pu$$y. Porn can be quite the insightful tool if used correctly. Not all of it is bad.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Kilgoretrout said:


> Right but porn can distort what is mutual pleasure and what is selfish (not to mention how big a normal penis is - lol)
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:lol:
Now more than ever, we need real sex education to minimized the possible distortion that porn may introduce. It won't happen of course. We have easy access to porn but sex education that is more than anatomy lessens is forbidden for being too sexually explicit. :scratchhead:


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## Kilgoretrout (Feb 2, 2016)

Catherine602 said:


> :lol:
> Now more than ever, we need real sex education to minimized the possible distortion that porn may introduce. It won't happen of course. We have easy access to porn but sex education that is more than anatomy lessens is forbidden for being too sexually explicit. :scratchhead:


Totally. Also porn that depicts sex as it actually is would be worthwhile
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

I don't know. I think I would be offended if my H had to watch porn before coming in to have sex with me to get turned on. Hell, he has offended me by doing as much...several times. I was completely okay with porn in our relationship until he took it too far. He crossed a line and that was it. I was done. It will never be fun again. 

I mean I get that you guys have been together for a long time, but a lot of the women in porn are much younger. You said you're what? 50s? 60s? (sorry I can't remember!) I am assuming your W is near that age (possibly still in her 40s?) Many women have a hard time watching their H's fantasize about women that they are twice the age of. She will never look that way again. It does make some women feel very insecure that they are being compared to something that they can never achieve. 

My H is an admitted porn addict. I mean, he's bad. 2-6 hours a day every single day in the past. It's horrible. He admittedly compared me to those porn stars and I felt so bad about myself. I had surgery to try to fix my body. I got boobs and a tummy tuck. Oh, he's happy now, but I feel sick about myself still because I felt like I had to do it to please him. That's not right. At all. I resent him for it so much. We're still in discussion of divorce over all of this. 

Now, I know that you're probably nothing like that. Many men aren't. However, there are an increasing number of studies being done and it is showing to cause more issues than it seems to be worth. Divorce lawyers all over the country are stating that at least 60% of Lawyers are reporting that porn is linked to higher rates of divorce.



> Many national divorce lawyers are agreeing with Fagan, with a meeting survey from the American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers showing that more than 60 percent agreed that Internet pornography was linked to higher rates of divorce.





> Representatives from the association have stated that less than a decade ago, pornography didn’t appear in divorce cases.


https://www.recoveryranch.com/articles/sex-addiction/more-attorneys-say-internet-pornography-a-factor-in-divorce/

You can pretty much google any divorce lawyer and they have info on porn viewing and how it's causing an increasing number of issues in marriages. 

Sooooo, not trying to preach, just wanted to give that waving flag of warning. There is a line that you can cross with your W and all of the "progress" you've made the last few years can all go straight down the toilet. I don't think you're addicted to porn or anything like that, But trying to get your W to watch it when she doesn't want to could back fire on you. 

Just make sure you're being extra careful.


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## Vulcan2013 (Sep 25, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> The thing that's always struck me about porn is the inherent hypocrisy of it. Few guys (or women) want their daughter doing it as they don't want men getting off to their daughter and they don't want their daughter being used as a receptacle. Yet they can get off to other mens' daughters.
> 
> The argument that usually follows is well I don't want my daughter picking up trash for a living but I still utilize the service. Ok, that's true, but it's not a fair comparison. You likely don't want your daughter picking up trash because you think she can do better, but picking up trash is a perfectly honest, respectable living.
> 
> ...


No I wouldn't be ok with my daughter in porn or stripping. I don't think anyone would. The women in porn are objectified, and I found with heavy porn use, I had trouble relating well with people. Compartmentalization also helps to live with the guilt. I remember seeing a web site with a slide show of dead porn stars. Suicide and AIDS for the most part. Hard knowing I was one of the people using them. And there were a lot of them.


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## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

staarz21 said:


> I don't know. I think I would be offended if my H had to watch porn before coming in to have sex with me to get turned on. Hell, he has offended me by doing as much...several times. I was completely okay with porn in our relationship until he took it too far. He crossed a line and that was it. I was done. It will never be fun again.
> 
> I mean I get that you guys have been together for a long time, but a lot of the women in porn are much younger. You said you're what? 50s? 60s? (sorry I can't remember!) I am assuming your W is near that age (possibly still in her 40s?) Many women have a hard time watching their H's fantasize about women that they are twice the age of. She will never look that way again. It does make some women feel very insecure that they are being compared to something that they can never achieve.
> 
> ...


Sorry, but I am just not buying this porn==divorce logic. The article makes no credible attempt to show direct cause/effect and without that all we have are uncorrelated data. Let me make a few similar baseless claims: women who watch netflex, or shop amazon on their iPads, are a major cause of divorce. Not really, these are all are just very popular recreational activities due to today's proliferation of connected devices, like porn. All "detract" from the marriage in similar ways, draining time and energy that could be better spent on mutually enjoyable activities.

If you really want to start parsing into the role of porn in divorce, I could also argue that mismatched libdos is *really* the major cause of divorce and any porn usage is clear evidence of this gap in desire. Or I could claims that porn SAVES alot of marriages by offering relief to a higher drive spouse.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

tommyr said:


> Sorry, but I am just not buying this porn==divorce logic. The article makes no credible attempt to show direct cause/effect and without that all we have are uncorrelated data. Let me make a few similar baseless claims: women who watch netflex, or shop amazon on their iPads, are a major cause of divorce. Not really, these are all are just very popular recreational activities due to today's proliferation of connected devices, like porn. All "detract" from the marriage in similar ways, draining time and energy that could be better spent on mutually enjoyable activities.
> 
> If you really want to start parsing into the role of porn in divorce, I could also argue that mismatched libdos is *really* the major cause of divorce and any porn usage is clear evidence of this gap in desire. Or I could claims that porn SAVES alot of marriages by offering relief to a higher drive spouse.


I would say that porn might be one of the major complaints now when it comes to couples and divorce. However, I don't believe porn is what causes divorce, it is just a symptom of bigger problems in the marriage. It is sexier to say that porn is causing divorce then actually talking about the underlying issues.

It is similar to Facebook which appears to be on the rise as "causing" divorce. However, FB is not causing divorce, it is the spouse using FB to cheat which is causing divorce.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Vulcan2013 said:


> No I wouldn't be ok with my daughter in porn or stripping. I don't think anyone would. The women in porn are objectified, and I found with heavy porn use, I had trouble relating well with people. Compartmentalization also helps to live with the guilt. I remember seeing a web site with a slide show of dead porn stars. Suicide and AIDS for the most part. Hard knowing I was one of the people using them. And there were a lot of them.


That was honest, thank you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Last night I had sex with my wife. The kids were out of the house so we had a short window of opportunity. I had the porn turned off, but my wife kind of hinted that I turn it on. She also hinted that I try some more modern porn. She sat and watched it for about 15 minutes while I rubbed her back. She actually saw more of it than me and watching her watch it turned me on more than the video itself.

Let's just say I rated last nights experience a 10 out of 10. Wow, was it good!

InTheory, 
Please don't feel that you have offended me in the least. I appreciate your responses and I learn much being here. You can give me your unfiltered opinion anytime you want to.
I respect your position.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
there is realistic porn out there - I guess is just isn't what a lot of people want to see. 




Kilgoretrout said:


> Totally. Also porn that depicts sex as it actually is would be worthwhile
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

tommyr said:


> Sorry, but I am just not buying this porn==divorce logic. The article makes no credible attempt to show direct cause/effect and without that all we have are uncorrelated data. Let me make a few similar baseless claims: women who watch netflex, or shop amazon on their iPads, are a major cause of divorce. Not really, these are all are just very popular recreational activities due to today's proliferation of connected devices, like porn. All "detract" from the marriage in similar ways, draining time and energy that could be better spent on mutually enjoyable activities.
> 
> If you really want to start parsing into the role of porn in divorce, I could also argue that mismatched libdos is *really* the major cause of divorce and any porn usage is clear evidence of this gap in desire. Or I could claims that porn SAVES alot of marriages by offering relief to a higher drive spouse.


I won't even disagree that porn isn't the "cause" but is in fact a symptom of something else. In my case, my H admits that he is totally happy, but cannot control himself with porn. I don't think it's the porn that's the problem, but his lack of self control.

Couldn't we easily say the same thing with gambling? Drugs? etc? People who allow themselves to become obsessed with these things obviously have underlying issues. 

However, with porn and the low sex drive debate...I have to wonder if it's not a chicken or the egg situation. A H uses porn because of his W "low drive" OR The W having a "low drive" because she finds out her H views porn instead? 

Many women have said over and over again that it can make them feel insecure. Many women have no issues with it at all...until it becomes an issue. That was me. I enjoyed watching porn, I enjoyed watching it with my H. He crossed the line. It wasn't the fault of porn, I'm not stupid enough to think that, but I DO think that more and more women are citing it as an issue that their spouse couldn't control. Therefore, it's PART of the problem. The spouse using porn should learn to control themselves, but if they can't they end up in divorce. For some, it's difficult to let it go. For some, it IS like a drug. My H has discussed this with me in gross detail. I wish I could unhear some of the crap he said to me about it. 

All I am saying is....be careful. There is a line that is easily crossed with porn and relationships. I don't understand why there is so much push back to be careful with porn? It seems like if it helps your relationship, cool...if not, then you need to rethink your relationship OR get rid of it. Seems pretty simple to me.

*ETA: I did go back and read my post, I did put int he post that porn seemed to be the cause of many divorces. I shouldn't have put THE cause, but instead part of the problem, I know many will disagree and I am okay with that.  **


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

UMP said:


> Last night I had sex with my wife. The kids were out of the house so we had a short window of opportunity. I had the porn turned off, but my wife kind of hinted that I turn it on. She also hinted that I try some more modern porn. She sat and watched it for about 15 minutes while I rubbed her back. She actually saw more of it than me and watching her watch it turned me on more than the video itself.
> 
> Let's just say I rated last nights experience a 10 out of 10. Wow, was it good!
> 
> ...




That's great that she is progressing with you! Sometimes, these things work and it is amazing when they do. So far, it seems to be going well for you!


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

staarz21 said:


> I won't even disagree that porn isn't the "cause" but is in fact a symptom of something else. In my case, my H admits that he is totally happy, but cannot control himself with porn. I don't think it's the porn that's the problem, but his lack of self control.
> 
> Couldn't we easily say the same thing with gambling? Drugs? etc? People who allow themselves to become obsessed with these things obviously have underlying issues.
> 
> ...


In years past porn did have an negative effect on my marriage. Not only did I waste my orgasm, but I took away that built up urge and threw it away on porn. Also, the porn was an easy way out. Instead of investing the time on my wife, working with her to find ways to bring out her nasty side, I simply took false refuge with porn.

Currently, I cannot even remember the last time I masturbated to conclusion with or without porn. If I watch it by myself I only watch and do not masturbate to conclusion. I save my orgasm for my wife. One of the only reasons my wife is even considering the porn is because she knows I do not masturbate to it and that I am including her, instead of excluding her.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

staarz21 said:


> I won't even disagree that porn isn't the "cause" but is in fact a symptom of something else. In my case, my H admits that he is totally happy, but cannot control himself with porn. I don't think it's the porn that's the problem, but his lack of self control.
> 
> Couldn't we easily say the same thing with gambling? Drugs? etc? People who allow themselves to become obsessed with these things obviously have underlying issues.
> 
> ...



There are two types of men that view porn: men who are willing to discuss it and men who are so heavily invested in it and terrified they might consider something to make them rethink it that they push back on every suggestion that porn isn't harmless and fabulous. 

Fortunately we have some of the former here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

UMP said:


> In years past porn did have an negative effect on my marriage. Not only did I waste my orgasm, but I took away that built up urge and threw it away on porn. Also, the porn was an easy way out. Instead of investing the time on my wife, working with her to find ways to bring out her nasty side, I simply took false refuge with porn.
> 
> Currently, I cannot even remember the last time I masturbated to conclusion with or without porn. If I watch it by myself I only watch and do not masturbate to conclusion. I save my orgasm for my wife. One of the only reasons my wife is even considering the porn is because she knows I do not masturbate to it and that I am including her, instead of excluding her.


That's really good and probably very important to her which is why she is now trusting you and opening up to this new idea. I am very happy that you were able to recognize this and then deal with it. 

I WISH my H would do something, anything about his issues with porn. I've tried to help him for 7 years now and I just don't have anything else to give at this point. If he could take a year to prove to me that he could control himself, I am almost sure we could introduce it back into our sex lives, similar to your W being open to it now. It takes time to heal from that type of rejection (It often felt like rejection to me) I spent 7 years hurting, why can't he take a year to try now? It's too hard for him. He can't quit. He says, it's just too difficult to stop.


But you made changes and your W apparently sees that and is willing to take a chance. That speaks wonders about her and about what you've done to help her feel secure with you and porn. So, whatever you're doing, it's working for her. :grin2:


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> There are two types of men that view porn: men who are willing to discuss it and men who are so heavily invested in it and terrified they might consider something to make them rethink it that they push back on every suggestion that porn isn't harmless and fabulous.
> 
> Fortunately we have some of the former here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have noticed that some people will be ride or die on porn. They won't even consider that it's a problem that many people have with controlling their urges. I was asked once on a different thread if I was lying about my situation because this poster couldn't fathom that my H would actually have such an issue with porn. 

It does happen, and it happens often. There are support forums everywhere for men and women who cannot control themselves around porn. They tell their stories, and it's heart breaking. There have been documentaries about porn "addicts". They give their life stories and you see the hurt in the family.

I don't think that is what is going on with UMP at all. However, when people try to make it as though it's not an increasing issue...I have to kind of take a second. Just because you haven't experienced it, doesn't mean it's not an issue. Which is why I gave a word of caution. Remember to be aware of your spouses feelings at all times. I am not trying to ban porn lol.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

staarz21 said:


> That's really good and probably very important to her which is why she is now trusting you and opening up to this new idea. I am very happy that you were able to recognize this and then deal with it.
> 
> I WISH my H would do something, anything about his issues with porn. I've tried to help him for 7 years now and I just don't have anything else to give at this point. If he could take a year to prove to me that he could control himself, I am almost sure we could introduce it back into our sex lives, similar to your W being open to it now. It takes time to heal from that type of rejection (It often felt like rejection to me) I spent 7 years hurting, why can't he take a year to try now? It's too hard for him. He can't quit. He says, it's just too difficult to stop.
> 
> ...


I realized that I was draining my sexual self to porn. When you are younger it's easy to service yourself and your wife because you have loads of energy and testosterone. It's like being a functional alcoholic. 

However, when you reach 40, 45, and 50 and you masturbate to porn, it really does drain your sexual energy and end up having little to none left for your wife.

This is when I made the conscious decision to no longer masturbate to porn. I wanted to give ALL my sexual energy to my wife because I wanted to fix our sex life. I wanted to make sex with my wife my number one relationship priority. I will tell you that currently at 54 years of age sex with my wife is 10 times better than it was 24 years ago and to me that is AMAZING.

Gaining control over the porn is one of the reasons for the positive change.

It may be difficult for your husband to gain control over porn but the result is definitely worth the effort.

If I had to simplify what I am doing with a few words I would say I am using porn to titillate my sexual mind rather than running it dry.
Watching some porn with my wife gives me that extra cave man boost that I need. My wife really likes it when I lose control and devour her body.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

staarz21 said:


> I WISH my H would do something, anything about his issues with porn. *I've tried to help him for 7 years now and I just don't have anything else to give at this point.* If he could take a year to prove to me that he could control himself, I am almost sure we could introduce it back into our sex lives, similar to your W being open to it now. It takes time to heal from that type of rejection (It often felt like rejection to me) I spent 7 years hurting, why can't he take a year to try now? It's too hard for him. *He can't quit. He says, it's just too difficult to stop.*


Has HE ever ask you to help him knowing that he needs to be mindful of doing things that hurt you?

Badsanta


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

staarz21 said:


> I have noticed that some people will be ride or die on porn. They won't even consider that it's a problem that many people have with controlling their urges. I was asked once on a different thread if I was lying about my situation because this poster couldn't fathom that my H would actually have such an issue with porn.
> 
> It does happen, and it happens often. There are support forums everywhere for men and women who cannot control themselves around porn. They tell their stories, and it's heart breaking. There have been documentary's about porn "addicts". They give their life stories and you see the hurt in the family.
> 
> I don't think that's is what is going on with UMP at all. However, when people try to make it as though it's not an increasing issue...I have to kind of take a second. *Just because you haven't experienced it, doesn't mean it's not an issue. *Which is why I gave a word of caution. Remember to be aware of your spouses feelings at all times. I am not trying to ban porn lol.


That shows you that person's mindset who is responding in such a black and white way. They are not able to put themselves in another's shoes when it requires taking a look at their own actions and seeing the negatives of it. Ignore those people. Listen to the people who are going to take viewpoints into consideration even if they do not agree with those viewpoints. It means they are able to empathize.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

badsanta said:


> Has HE ever ask you to help him knowing that he needs to be mindful of doing things that hurt you?
> 
> Badsanta


He has. Well, he has said that he wants me to point out to him when he is going too far. He has asked me for ideas on what he should do to help himself keep it in check. He wanted us to go to counseling together. He wanted me to sit with him and look at books that we could read together. All of those things he brought up himself. Is that what you mean? 

The problem with that is, I think he does it to pacify me. I don't think he really wants me to help him, which is why I have given up. The past couple of months I literally haven't said a word to him about it. We don't fight about it, we don't talk about it. I am still hurt, but he doesn't hear me "nagging" about it.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

UMP said:


> In years past porn did have an negative effect on my marriage. Not only did I waste my orgasm, but I took away that built up urge and threw it away on porn. Also, the porn was an easy way out. Instead of investing the time on my wife, working with her to find ways to bring out her nasty side, I simply took false refuge with porn.
> 
> Currently, I cannot even remember the last time I masturbated to conclusion with or without porn. If I watch it by myself I only watch and do not masturbate to conclusion. I save my orgasm for my wife. One of the only reasons my wife is even considering the porn is because she knows I do not masturbate to it and that I am including her, instead of excluding her.


So you have shown your wife that she is more important than porn, that is a good thing. 

In my world porn is not an issue. I know he used to watch it frequently and MB daily, this was towards the end of his marriage and pre our relationship. We have open discussion about porn, MB and sex in general. I have no problem with him watching it bc I know he is in control of himself and has it all in perspective. As it is he rarely watches these days, as he says , he has no need to now, it used to fill a void.
For me it is all about feeling safe with my partner, we are in your age group UMP, and even though I am HD and very much enjoy sex I am at that age where I am scared of getting older and I do not want to ever have to compete with younger women. 

I feel safe bc it is very clear to me that porn is not something he needs but it is something he can enjoy occasionally. We are very sexually connected and compatible and he understands that if I feel safe then he gets the very best I have to share with him. 

All the best to you.

ETA I am reading a great book ATM about sex and relationships post 40, if you would like the name just ask.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

staarz21 said:


> He has. Well, he has said that he wants me to point out to him when he is going too far. He has asked me for ideas on what he should do to help himself keep it in check. He wanted us to go to counseling together. He wanted me to sit with him and look at books that we could read together. All of those things he brought up himself. Is that what you mean?
> 
> The problem with that is, I think he does it to pacify me. I don't think he really wants me to help him, which is why I have given up. The past couple of months I literally haven't said a word to him about it. We don't fight about it, we don't talk about it. I am still hurt, but he doesn't hear me "nagging" about it.


I really despise the term "nagging". It's a nasty way of dismissing and making light of things that bother your partner. 

I can only imagine the reaction if we labeled men who want more sex as nags.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

staarz21 said:


> He has. Well, he has said that he wants me to point out to him when he is going too far. He has asked me for ideas on what he should do to help himself keep it in check. He wanted us to go to counseling together. He wanted me to sit with him and look at books that we could read together. All of those things he brought up himself. Is that what you mean?


*Yes*, I can even see myself in his responses. Based on this, I think you should take that as a sign that you can work with him to improve the situation. 




> The problem with that is, I think he does it to pacify me. I don't think he really wants me to help him, which is why I have given up. The past couple of months I literally haven't said a word to him about it. We don't fight about it, we don't talk about it. I am still hurt, but he doesn't hear me "nagging" about it.


I'll be brutally honest with my response here, and tell you what you need to hear and NOT what you might want to hear. In your husband's mind, he does not find anything wrong with porn and he knows it is something both very stimulating and enjoyable that will help him relax or just distract his mind away from the world. *He has a very clear recognition of the problem (based on the fact he asked you for help) that he can NOT reconcile this on his own how to deal with something that brings him satisfaction and at the same time hurts you.*

This is why he is trying to get feedback from you on exactly what is OK, what is problematic, and what is hurtful for you. For my wife, her biggest fear was that I was looking at "live" acts of sex that were interactive exclusively for me by another woman that would try to seduce me into doing more than just online porn. Her second biggest fear was that I was lying to her about exactly what I was doing and eroding trust in our relationship. Other than that she thought erotic materials were not actually that problematic for her. She even preferred I watch DVDs or read erotic magazines, so that she would know what I was looking at was at least something where she would be aware of the content I was consuming. 

Eventually I discovered that I enjoy reading and using my imagination much more than porn, and I sincerely do enjoy imagining how to explore something creative with my wife. Once I got to this point, I got my wife to be supportive of those endeavors, and now we often enjoy talking about all the bizarre things I read! So in terms of something that gets me excited:

Reading and using my imagination = Five stars
Searching porn and and closing pop ups = Three stars


Cheers,
Badsanta


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## ConfusionHasRunRampant (Apr 1, 2015)

I love me some porn. The husband, not as much (or so he says).


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I'm with lifeistooshort.

If it isn't ok for your wife and daughter to have sausage sized dongs shoved into their cervix, rectum and tonsils all day for your masturbating pleasure, why is it ok for you to do that with someone else 's daughter, mother or even wife?

You know it isn't.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> I'm with lifeistooshort.
> 
> If it isn't ok for your wife and daughter to have sausage sized dongs shoved into their cervix, rectum and tonsils all day for your masturbating pleasure, why is it ok for you to do that with someone else 's daughter, mother or even wife?
> 
> ...


See we agree on stuff :grin2:

To be honest I have somewhat conflicting feelings because I know someone personally who runs a porn site and I can tell you without it she'd be on welfare. I have known her since 4th grade and I know for a fact she does it willingly and likes it.

But I still feel it's hypocritical. I'm not sure if her parents know about it but I feel like they have to.....but since I haven't spoken to them in years I have no idea how they feel about it.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
but who wants their children cleaning toilets, serving eviction notices to bankrupt families, changing nursing home patients diapers, serving as prison guards, working in a garment factory, embalming bodies, etc

There are a lot of jobs that most people would find very unpleasant. 

There are a number of jobs that people do that I would enjoy less than doing gay porn - and I'm straight. 

I hope that the the majority of people who do porn, if they don't actually enjoy it, at least don't mind it more than most people mind their jobs.



ConanHub said:


> I'm with lifeistooshort.
> 
> If it isn't ok for your wife and daughter to have sausage sized dongs shoved into their cervix, rectum and tonsils all day for your masturbating pleasure, why is it ok for you to do that with someone else 's daughter, mother or even wife?
> 
> ...


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> but who wants their children cleaning toilets, serving eviction notices to bankrupt families, changing nursing home patients diapers, serving as prison guards, working in a garment factory, embalming bodies, etc
> 
> There are a lot of jobs that most people would find very unpleasant.
> ...


To be honest, those are jobs that NEED to be done. Porn isn't a job that needs to be done. It just seems like it's in an entirely different realm.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

@badsanta

Thanks for the information! I will throw those ideas out there and see where it goes. I don't think I'm going to be too in depth with talking about it anymore as I don't think I can take another let down right now - but I will throw those ideas out there and let him take the lead on whether it's something he might want to try. :grin2:


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## Kilgoretrout (Feb 2, 2016)

staarz21 said:


> To be honest, those are jobs that NEED to be done. Porn isn't a job that needs to be done. It just seems like it's in an entirely different realm.


That is an interesting point. Never thought about it that way
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> but who wants their children cleaning toilets, serving eviction notices to bankrupt families, changing nursing home patients diapers, serving as prison guards, working in a garment factory, embalming bodies, etc
> 
> There are a lot of jobs that most people would find very unpleasant.
> ...


Wrong on many levels. I know people in many of the professions you listed and have done some myself.

Unreal that you seem incapable of differentiating.

So your wife being a maid or working in a garment factory is the same to you as if she was getting humped all day and recorded for money?

We have no frame of reference to have a conversation because your thought process is madness to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> See we agree on stuff :grin2:
> 
> To be honest I have somewhat conflicting feelings because I know someone personally who runs a porn site and I can tell you without it she'd be on welfare. I have known her since 4th grade and I know for a fact she does it willingly and likes it.
> 
> But I still feel it's hypocritical. I'm not sure if her parents know about it but I feel like they have to.....but since I haven't spoken to them in years I have no idea how they feel about it.


Sorry about your friend but her choice is being poor for a while until she can work her way out like the rest of us or prostitute herself?

I have had some desperately poor times in my life and, believe it or not, was propositioned more than once to make fast money through porn.

You won't find me selling it on any video anywhere.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

I do not doubt there exist some extreme cases where porn usage harms a marriage. Clearly there are a couple posters on TAM who have experienced that. I am sympathetic to those situations and hope for a good resolution. But I still have to point out the blatant, fact-less, agenda driven journalism of an article titled "More Attorneys Say Internet Pornography a Factor in Divorce" which presents a few chronologically obvious statements ("less than a decade ago, pornography didn’t appear in divorce cases") as if this is somehow proof of a correlation. No, it's proof only that every house now has wifi and a tablet, and that viewing pornography is a popular contemporary leisure activity. I bet Netflix and Facebook are linked to alot more divorce cases today than 10 years ago too. Until I see some actual evidence of a cause/effect, I will hold onto my beliefs that porn is about equal to Facebook in terms of marriage destruction.

I can only share my own experience with porn which has been a marriage saving resource. I am married to a low desire spouse. It didn't start out that way, she lost her libido after kid #2 and it never came back. Despite that challenge, we have recovered from our formerly sexless marriage, and we now are about 2x per week frequency for the past several years. 

Without getting too deep into my story, let me jump ahead and say my wife is fully aware that I often masturbate with porn. She is not only comfortable with that (she makes jokes about my "habit") but I would even say she is *grateful* because it relieves my stress without involving her in more sex than she wants or would enjoy. Long ago, we actually had a marriage counselor who specifically told me I should consider masturbating as part of the compromise around our marital sex life. Gee, good idea counselor, I never thought of that!


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

tommyr said:


> I do not doubt there exist some extreme cases where porn usage harms a marriage. Clearly there are a couple posters on TAM who have experienced that. I am sympathetic to those situations and hope for a good resolution. But I still have to point out the blatant, fact-less, agenda driven journalism of an article titled "More Attorneys Say Internet Pornography a Factor in Divorce" which presents a few chronologically obvious statements ("less than a decade ago, pornography didn’t appear in divorce cases") as if this is somehow proof of a correlation. No, it's proof only that every house now has wifi and a tablet, and that viewing pornography is a popular contemporary leisure activity. I bet Netflix and Facebook are linked to alot more divorce cases today than 10 years ago too. Until I see some actual evidence of a cause/effect, I will hold onto my beliefs that porn is about equal to Facebook in terms of marriage destruction.
> 
> I can only share my own experience with porn which has been a marriage saving resource. I am married to a low desire spouse. It didn't start out that way, she lost her libido after kid #2 and it never came back. Despite that challenge, we have recovered from our formerly sexless marriage, and we now are about 2x per week frequency for the past several years.
> 
> Without getting too deep into my story, let me jump ahead and say my wife is fully aware that I often masturbate with porn. She is not only comfortable with that (she makes jokes about my "habit") but I would even say she is *grateful* because it relieves my stress without involving her in more sex than she wants or would enjoy. Long ago, we actually had a marriage counselor who specifically told me I should consider masturbating as part of the compromise around our marital sex life. Gee, good idea counselor, I never thought of that!



Glad it works for you guys. 

But if you're so high drive why do you need porn? Why is a few minutes in the shower not enough? 

Porn creates an artificial drive, so people think have all this drive by the truth is they don't. Without porn they'd be much lower drive.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> Glad it works for you guys.
> 
> But if you're so high drive why do you need porn? Why is a few minutes in the shower not enough?
> 
> ...


Exactly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

OliviaG said:


> Most people's jobs don't seriously undermine their health, their relationships and their reputations in polite society the way the female porn star's does though. Probably not quite the same (or anything at all similar) for the males in porn.


Yeah, nobody is going to lose their current job if people find out they used to work in a garment factory. 

Tell someone you used to work in porn and you used to embalm bodies and see if the reaction is the same.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> Glad it works for you guys.
> 
> But if you're so high drive why do you need porn? Why is a few minutes in the shower not enough?
> 
> ...



It does work for us. Of course I would prefer more actual sex with my wife, but she is pretty clear that 2x per week is her upper limit.
Who said that I "need" porn? I can easily get off in the shower, thank you for asking. But I enjoy porn, so why not? My wife also (sometimes) enjoys porn. Neither of us have any issues as you seem to have with porn. 

As to my sex drive, I would actually call it more "normal" versus "high" drive. Earlier in our marriage, we had sex every other day and I practically never masturbated back then. Even today I would be perfectly happy with every other day sex and would never bother with porn, and I think that is pretty darned normal.

I do not agree with your assertion that porn creates any artificial drive for me. It sounds like you just have strong anti-porn convictions and this may lead you to make associations to porn usage that may not be true, or may be true in a very small minority of cases. We may just have to disagree and move on. Fortunately my wife does not have any such anti porn hang ups.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> But if you're so high drive why do you need porn? Why is a few minutes in the shower not enough?


Lol, this is the second time someone here has said this. If you seriously think a shower, some soap, and your imagination is enough for a guy to get off every time, yikes ....


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

tommyr said:


> It does work for us. Of course I would prefer more actual sex with my wife, but she is pretty clear that 2x per week is her upper limit.
> Who said that I "need" porn? I can easily get off in the shower, thank you for asking. But I enjoy porn, so why not? My wife also (sometimes) enjoys porn. Neither of us have any issues as you seem to have with porn.
> 
> As to my sex drive, I would actually call it more "normal" versus "high" drive. Earlier in our marriage, we had sex every other day and I practically never masturbated back then. Even today I would be perfectly happy with every other day sex and would never bother with porn, and I think that is pretty darned normal.
> ...


I think you can't get off without it.
She isn't the only one with that position. Many studies verify that porn dies impact thought process, appetite and behavior.

You can like whatever you want but it doesn't negate the science of sex and the brain.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

tommyr said:


> It does work for us. Of course I would prefer more actual sex with my wife, but she is pretty clear that 2x per week is her upper limit.
> Who said that I "need" porn? I can easily get off in the shower, thank you for asking. But I enjoy porn, so why not? My wife also (sometimes) enjoys porn. Neither of us have any issues as you seem to have with porn.
> 
> As to my sex drive, I would actually call it more "normal" versus "high" drive. Earlier in our marriage, we had sex every other day and I practically never masturbated back then. Even today I would be perfectly happy with every other day sex and would never bother with porn, and I think that is pretty darned normal.
> ...


Actually no, I don't really care who uses it and if my hb watches some I'm ok with that. I have been known to watch some from time to time too.

But thanks for assuming, you are one that is heavily invested in porn so you can't have an objective discussion about it.

Just the fact that you're defensive enough to accuse me of hang ups based on a discussion tells me you're heavily invested in it and not interested in a discussion. 

Really that's fine as you have an understanding with your wife..... that's all that really matters.

Porn creates an artificially high drive..... you can argue if you want but it won't change anything. 

Just for giggles have you tried not watching it for a few months and seeing what your drive really is?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> Lol, this is the second time someone here has said this. If you seriously think a shower, some soap, and your imagination is enough for a guy to get off every time, yikes ....


It actually is. Although the more someone consumes porn, the more stimulation they usually need until weened off.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> Lol, this is the second time someone here has said this. If you seriously think a shower, some soap, and your imagination is enough for a guy to get off every time, yikes ....


Fair enough, but it negates the argument that you're all that hd. 

If you (not directed at you personally) need porn for stimulation you're not high drive. It's just tough for egos to accept.

Said guy mentally wants to get off because he knows he'll like it but his drive isn't that high so he uses porn to create the physical stimulation required.

Not that different from smoking or drugs except that it won't give you cancer or otherwise kill you. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> It actually is. Although the more someone consumes porn, the more stimulation they usually need until weened off.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I disagree and I rarely watch porn anymore. Just b/c I may be in the mood or have a high drive does not mean I can just hop in the shower with my imagination and get off every time (and my plumbing works fine).


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

OliviaG said:


> So your daughter comes to you to tell you that she will be starring in a series of porn films. Your mind doesn't immediately go to the long view? You don't see your daughter's chances of finding a man who genuinely loves and respects her enough to marry her and have a family with her to be slim to none? You don't see that if she were to be lucky enough to find such a guy, and somehow manage to have a family while working in this industry, her children would be the subject of ridicule throughout their entire lives, would be embarrassed by their mother and maybe even grow to downright hate her?
> 
> So, she tells you that she doesn't care, because she doesn't want a family anyway. You don't realize that she may very well change her mind in a decade but if she does, she's burned that bridge; there's no going back for her now?
> 
> ...


As long as people get to masturbate to her recorded humping, who cares right?

Apparently masturbating to someone's daughter being stuffed with penis on camera is as needed as clothes and cleaning services! LOL!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> Fair enough, but it negates the argument that you're all that hd.
> 
> If you need porn for stimulation you're not high drive. It's just tough for egos to accept.
> 
> ...


I agree, i don't equate high drive with this. I just would like to dispel the myth that a guy can wack it an any moment with some lube and his thoughts. Might be something for the myth busters :grin2:


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> I disagree and I rarely watch porn anymore. Just b/c I may be in the mood or have a high drive does not mean I can just hop in the shower with my imagination and get off every time (and my plumbing works fine).


Well I can and do. I am HD. I Mb at least 3x a day even before and after sex with no porn.
_Posted via Mobile Device_

That is just an average. If I'm particularly Randy, I Mb up to 10x a day, even 5x in one hour.

No porn required. Just a very persistent itch to scratch! LOL!


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

OliviaG said:


> I'm a bit confused about this too. Might be an area where men and women are different.
> 
> Here's my question: if you can't MB without porn, do you need to MB at that particular time? In other words, do you have the urge driving you insane, but you just can't get to O without it?


There have been times where sex has been on my mind at home, definitely had the urge, always find my wife hot (so that isn't an issue in terms of mental images), but there is no way my wife and I will be able to do anything at that moment. Hopping in the shower with thoughts of my wife will not always be enough. If I were to throw on some porn for the extra visual stimulation, I would be able to finish (once again, I am not a porn guy so it is not like I am desensitized). It is actually very frustrating at times, having the urge and the need to release but not being able to (hard to explain the feeling).


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

staarz21 said:


> @badsanta
> 
> Thanks for the information! I will throw those ideas out there and see where it goes. I don't think I'm going to be too in depth with talking about it anymore as I don't think I can take another let down right now - but I will throw those ideas out there and let him take the lead on whether it's something he might want to try. :grin2:


Even if you feel the issue is unreconcilable, it is important for your husband to see you remain engaged in trying to address it, while at the same time you have obviously shown a great deal of patience. Once he recognizes this, he will be more and more compelled to try and do "something" about it. Just keep in mind that he will need you to help him determine what this "something" is as he will not be able to judge on his own what is OK or not since his physical/mental/biology has been telling him everything is OK now for years.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> There have been times where sex has been on my mind at home, definitely had the urge, always find my wife hot (so that isn't an issue in terms of mental images), but there is no way my wife and I will be able to do anything at that moment. Hopping in the shower with thoughts of my wife will not always be enough. If I were to throw on some porn for the extra visual stimulation, I would be able to finish (once again, I am not a porn guy so it is not like I am desensitized). It is actually very frustrating at times, having the urge and the need to release but not being able to (hard to explain the feeling).


Why are you not able to finish?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> I agree, i don't equate high drive with this. I just would like to dispel the myth that a guy can wack it an any moment with some lube and his thoughts. Might be something for the myth busters :grin2:


Ok, so we do agree. I don't think for a minute that any guy can whack it any time and get off right away.....I'd never put that kind of pressure on a person. 

My hb is 60 and he can't get off every day. If he watched a lot of porn maybe he could get off more, but since I can't every day either things work for us.

My only contention is that if you need porn to finish you're not as hd as you think you are. 

It's ok though, it's not a crime 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> See we agree on stuff :grin2:
> 
> To be honest I have somewhat conflicting feelings because I know someone personally who runs a porn site and I can tell you without it she'd be on welfare. I have known her since 4th grade and I know for a fact she does it willingly and likes it.
> 
> But I still feel it's hypocritical. I'm not sure if her parents know about it but I feel like they have to.....but since I haven't spoken to them in years I have no idea how they feel about it.


Interestingly enough I watched a special on heroin last night. They visited the actual (very poor) farmers of poppy in Colombia. They were shown pictures of heroin addicts and were shocked. However, they also stated that if the government of Colombia subsidized their legal crops they would stop growing poppy. They were doing it to simply survive. They use the money for education, medicine and food for their families. The farmer finished with an intriguing statement that said he was very sorry that people were suffering in the U.S. because of poppy, yet he stated that his people were suffering even more, which was the truth.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> Lol, this is the second time someone here has said this. If you seriously think a shower, some soap, and your imagination is enough for a guy to get off every time, yikes ....


EXCELLENT point, especially for those of us above 50.

We are not jack off robots. We cannot cum on command.
Well, I guess it would depend on how you "ask" and what clothing you have on:grin2:


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

jld said:


> Why are you not able to finish?


Sometimes mentally is just not enough. Very easy to get distracted, think about other things. How many times have you heard women say they are unable to O b/c their mind is elsewhere. It doesn't mean they aren't in the mood or don't want sex, but sometimes the mind has a mind of its own lol.



OliviaG said:


> Thanks for explaining. I've had that feeling myself just in the last 6 months or so, but it has been due to losing some sensation in my case. Anyway, just saying that I can relate to that feeling of frustration.


Yeah, the feeling of frustration blows (not literally).


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

UMP said:


> EXCELLENT point, especially for those of us above 50.
> 
> We are not jack off robots. We cannot cum on command.
> Well, I guess it would depend on how you "ask" and what clothing you have on:grin2:


You don't have to be jack off robots! Men put this pressure on themselves for the most part.

My hb is good for a few really good times a week and for me that's fabulous. 

Does your wife need more? 

Why would you feel you need to be able to get off every day?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

UMP said:


> Interestingly enough I watched a special on heroin last night. They visited the actual (very poor) farmers of poppy in Colombia. They were shown pictures of heroin addicts and were shocked. However, they also stated that if the government of Colombia subsidized their legal crops they would stop growing poppy. They were doing it to simply survive. They use the money for education, medicine and food for their families. The farmer finished with an intriguing statement that said he was very sorry that people were suffering in the U.S. because of poppy, yet he stated that his people were suffering even more, which was the truth.


I have no doubt. The whole war on drugs is a dismal failure and a creation of the pharmaceutical industry. 

I think we should legalize almost everything, but if you commit crime while on drugs you get the book thrown at you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

OliviaG said:


> Thanks for explaining. I've had that feeling myself just in the last 6 months or so, but it has been due to losing some sensation in my case. Anyway, just saying that I can relate to that feeling of frustration.


Funny enough as well, I can only think of a handful of times that I was ever unable to finish with my wife, and all were when using a condom which takes some of the sensation away. One time I had bought a condom variety pack not realizing that one of them I guess was their "PE" edition and had a numbing agent inside. That was horrible, couldn't feel anything, just kept doing my thing with my wife, looking around at the ceiling, planning out my day, etc... lol.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> You don't have to be jack off robots! Men put this pressure on themselves for the most part.
> 
> My hb is good for a few really good times a week and for me that's fabulous.
> 
> ...


The point I was trying to make was after 24 years of marriage and headed toward 60 years of age, a mans body and mind just does not work the same way it used to. I WANT to be horny, I WANT to lust after my wife, I WANT to consume my wifes body like it was a huge piece of Kobe steak. The porn just helps with this.

It's like eating steak. You can have the best steak in the world for years and years. If you put a little salt on it, I don't care how good the steak is, it's going to taste better with some salt. IMO.
Porn is like salt on a steak, it's a condiment.


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

UMP said:


> Interestingly enough I watched a special on heroin last night. They visited the actual (very poor) farmers of poppy in Colombia. They were shown pictures of heroin addicts and were shocked. However, they also stated that if the government of Colombia subsidized their legal crops they would stop growing poppy. They were doing it to simply survive. They use the money for education, medicine and food for their families. The farmer finished with an intriguing statement that said he was very sorry that people were suffering in the U.S. because of poppy, yet he stated that his people were suffering even more, which was the truth.


Do you know what the title of that documentary is? It would be really interesting to watch.

I also am not 100% sure of how you are trying to connect the two porn and farmers in Colombia...but not because of your words but because of my confusion.


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

UMP said:


> The point I was trying to make was after 24 years of marriage and headed toward 60 years of age, a mans body and mind just does not work the same way it used to. I WANT to be horny, I WANT to lust after my wife, I WANT to consume my wifes body like it was a huge piece of Kobe steak. The porn just helps with this.
> 
> It's like eating steak. You can have the best steak in the world for years and years. If you put a little salt on it, I don't care how good the steak is, it's going to taste better with some salt. IMO.
> Porn is like salt on a steak, it's a condiment.


What I flinch at is seeing porn like a tool where, as a women (like the title says), I cannot help but think about the lives of the women and men in porn. 

Just like how in the US we use a lot of drugs and we can say it makes me feel better it makes me relax and so on, but I cannot disconnect the chain of supply and the hold drugs have in Latin American countries due to our consumption. Does that make me a killjoy for not wanting to do drugs to not contribute to that supply chain?


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

VirgenTecate said:


> Do you know what the title of that documentary is? It would be really interesting to watch.
> 
> I also am not 100% sure of how you are trying to connect the two porn and farmers in Colombia...but not because of your words but because of my confusion.


lifestooshort made a comment on some poor friends of hers that operate a porn website to survive. That's how I connected porn to heroin.

It was on a new channel and I cannot remember the name of.
I think it was called "heroin, the untold story." I believe it's channel 342 on Directv.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

OliviaG said:


> Just throwing this out there: it seems like there may be some evidence that watching porn changes your sexual response, over time.
> 
> I don't watch porn, but as a middle-aged female I know that there are other factors out there that may negatively affect my sexual response if I'm not careful. I want to preserve it, to keep myself functioning as optimally as possible, so I research the daylights out of any and all possible threats. *First to determine if they are actually threats, and second, if I determine that they are threats, to figure out how to prevent them or deal with them if I'm too late to prevent.*
> 
> ...


I believe the biggest threat is ... ISIS ... but we do have Linda :grin2:










I believe for some (many?) of the guys porn is being used to replace something missing/wrong in the relationship (not saying this applies to everyone as I do believe porn can be used in a healthy relationship). For those using as a replacement, why research, since the underlying issue is the marriage/relationship.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

VirgenTecate said:


> What I flinch at is seeing porn like a tool where, as a women (like the title says), I cannot help but think about the lives of the women and men in porn.
> 
> Just like how in the US we use a lot of drugs and we can say it makes me feel better it makes me relax and so on, but I cannot disconnect the chain of supply and the hold drugs have in Latin American countries due to our consumption. Does that make me a killjoy for not wanting to do drugs to not contribute to that supply chain?


You have a valid point. It's like Christians saying you should not work on Sundays and go to Church. Yet after Church we all go to friggen Cracker Barrel eating and laughing while waiters work their assess off serving us.

We're all hypocrites in some way, IMO. Does not make it right, but it is reality.


----------



## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I guess we just think differently about it. If my wife told me she used to be a porn star, it wouldn't bother me (assuming she had been doing the work willingly). I wouldn't want to date / marry a woman who was currently doing sex work, but past doesn't bother me at all. 

I just don't see casual sex as fundamentally bad in any way. I wouldn't personally want to engage in casual sex - I'm not wired that way, but I have not problems with anyone who is. 

I don't see anything at all negative about women who have been with a lot of men. 




ConanHub said:


> Wrong on many levels. I know people in many of the professions you listed and have done some myself.
> 
> Unreal that you seem incapable of differentiating.
> 
> ...


----------



## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

I for one will not be watching the Super Bowl this Sunday. After all they are exploiting all those young men to such a violent sport. The reports of the affect on the brains and bodies of these young men is horrible. Stand with me posters who believe porn is horrible cause the exploitation of women and boycott the Super Bowl this Sunday!!!!!


----------



## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I don't have children, so I can't claim to know how I would react if I did. 

Since a woman's sexual history doesn't bother met at all, I have a difficult time understanding how it affects other people. 

It is true that some women are very badly treated due to their sexual past. (I am appalled by how Monica Lewinski can't escape her actions of decades ago). A famous porn star my not be able to escape her past - but someone at that level has already decided to make a full career of it. Someone who has done some porn work is unlikely to be recognized later - though I agree it is a risk. 


I don't know how much abuse there is in the porn industry. There seems to be a lot of disagreement between sources. If the industry is actually abusing women, then I strongly oppose it. I just haven't seen anything convincing either way. 

The psychological issues depend on the person. Porn is a terrible career for most people. There do seem to be some people though who can engage in casual sex without any emotional connection. For them it seems an OK choice.




OliviaG said:


> So your daughter comes to you to tell you that she will be starring in a series of porn films. Your mind doesn't immediately go to the long view? You don't see your daughter's chances of finding a man who genuinely loves and respects her enough to marry her and have a family with her to be slim to none? You don't see that if she were to be lucky enough to find such a guy, and somehow manage to have a family while working in this industry, her children would be the subject of ridicule throughout their entire lives, would be embarrassed by their mother and maybe even grow to downright hate her?
> 
> So, she tells you that she doesn't care, because she doesn't want a family anyway. You don't realize that she may very well change her mind in a decade but if she does, she's burned that bridge; there's no going back for her now?
> 
> ...


----------



## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
for people who don't really have any other option, porn provides some variety to masturbation. If you are married and your spouse won't, or only rarely will have sex with you, porn provides a sad substitute for a real sex life - but in many case it may be the only option (if for example children make divorce undesirable).




lifeistooshort said:


> Glad it works for you guys.
> 
> But if you're so high drive why do you need porn? Why is a few minutes in the shower not enough?
> 
> ...


----------



## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

OliviaG said:


> Just throwing this out there: it seems like there may be some evidence that watching porn changes your sexual response, over time.
> 
> I don't watch porn, but as a middle-aged female I know that there are other factors out there that may negatively affect my sexual response if I'm not careful. I want to preserve it, to keep myself functioning as optimally as possible, so I research the daylights out of any and all possible threats. First to determine if they are actually threats, and second, if I determine that they are threats, to figure out how to prevent them or deal with them if I'm too late to prevent.
> 
> ...


Because research like this is always biased one way or the other.
I have done my own research since I was 9 years old.
I have come to the conclusion that porn can be very destructive to yourself and your relationships. However, I have also found that if used in moderation WITH your spouse it can add some spice.

It's like many things. Alcohol, marijuana, morphine, hydrocodone, guns etc. etc. can all be positive if used properly. They can also destroy countless lives if used improperly.


----------



## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

richie33 said:


> I for one will not be watching the Super Bowl this Sunday. After all they are exploiting all those young men to such a violent sport. The reports of the affect on the brains and bodies of these young men is horrible. Stand with me posters who believe porn is horrible cause the exploitation of women and boycott the Super Bowl this Sunday!!!!!


Exactly,
Except for Cam Newton. He is friggen super human and invincible, or so he thinks.

I'm still gunna watch though:grin2:


----------



## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
Sex, even solo, isn't just about getting off efficiently - at least for some people. 




OliviaG said:


> I'm a bit confused about this too. Might be an area where men and women are different.
> 
> Here's my question: if you can't MB without porn, do you need to MB at that particular time? In other words, do you have the urge driving you insane, but you just can't get to O without it?


----------



## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

UMP said:


> You have a valid point. It's like Christians saying you should not work on Sundays and go to Church. Yet after Church we all go to friggen Cracker Barrel eating and laughing while waiters work their assess off serving us.
> 
> We're all hypocrites in some way, IMO. Does not make it right, but it is reality.


It is reality. I guess I would just like for us to try to mitigate harmful actions instead of throwing up our hands and just saying "That's the way it is"

When I do actions that align with my core beliefs, even if it is difficult and at a great cost to me, I can dream of a better future. I feel most myself.

That does not mean that I do not have hypocritical actions either.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> I guess we just think differently about it. If my wife told me she used to be a porn star, it wouldn't bother me (assuming she had been doing the work willingly). I wouldn't want to date / marry a woman who was currently doing sex work, but past doesn't bother me at all.
> 
> I just don't see casual sex as fundamentally bad in any way. I wouldn't personally want to engage in casual sex - I'm not wired that way, but I have not problems with anyone who is.
> ...


You are skirting my statement. You did answer me though.

You would not date or marry a porn star.

So am I to assume you would not date a maid, correctional officer or a garment factory worker?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I wouldn't marry someone currently working as a porn star, though no problem with a former porn star. I might date one though - though sex would be awkward - could she separate "work" sex from "fun" sex. 

Porn star, maid, correctional officer - odds are that we would not have enough in common to make dating or marriage enjoyable. 






ConanHub said:


> You are skirting my statement. You did answer me though.
> 
> You would not date or marry a porn star.
> 
> ...


----------



## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

OliviaG said:


> I get that. It wasn't really what I meant. I think that based on responses, there is probably a (general) difference between males and females, then. For me, the imagination is much better than an actual image. I don't know about other women, but I suspect that is generally the case. For men, the opposite. One reason why we have difficulty understanding each other in this realm, maybe.


If I'm aroused and my wife isn't available or the timing doesn't work and I've just got to do something about it; masturbation is a lot easier for me when there's visual stimulation involved.

I'm not comparing my wife to the women in the videos. And I sure as heck hope that she's not comparing me to the men!


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

OliviaG said:


> I get that. It wasn't really what I meant. I think that based on responses, there is probably a (general) difference between males and females, then. For me, the imagination is much better than an actual image. I don't know about other women, but I suspect that is generally the case. For men, the opposite. One reason why we have difficulty understanding each other in this realm, maybe.


AH yes, men need the "image" to produce the imagination.
Maybe that might help you understand men a bit more.

I can see one split second image and I can keep that image in my mind for a LONG time. That one small image can also enhance my imagination for just as long.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

OliviaG said:


> I get that. It wasn't really what I meant. I think that based on responses, there is probably a (general) difference between males and females, then. For me, the imagination is much better than an actual image. I don't know about other women, but I suspect that is generally the case. For men, the opposite. One reason why we have difficulty understanding each other in this realm, maybe.


I always say when I go to my happy place in my mind there are always midgets running around ... sometimes my imagination might not be the best option lol.



Buddy400 said:


> If I'm aroused and my wife isn't available or the timing doesn't work and I've just got to do something about it; masturbation is a lot easier for me when there's visual stimulation involved.
> 
> I'm not comparing my wife to the women in the videos. And I sure as heck hope that she's not comparing me to the men!


Spot on.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

OliviaG said:


> The funny thing is that in all my fantasy thought, my husband is the star of the show. I've even tried, hard, to think of someone else. Someone that I have sparks with. It doesn't work for me. So it's always him! He's often doing things he doesn't normally do though. So an image is not going to be of much use to me...lol..


Same here but I get there differently.
For example, we will start watching porn together and I will get excited from seeing the action on the tv. I then transfer that excitement to my wife and frankly never even glance at the tv once we get started. From that point on, my wife is the star.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

OliviaG said:


> But for me, there is usually something in an image that is off-putting. Like if I imagine the guy in the image is my husband then WTH is he doing with that woman??! Major turn-off!
> 
> And if I'm not imagining anything, just watching the people on the screen for who they are...YUCK!...how many women has that guy been with?! I wouldn't let him touch me with that thing...!


The key is to stay in the moment. Stay on point. It's your nasty little secret only you and your husband know about. Forget about anything else. It's your little nirvana in this cruel confused world. A time where you can forget about EVERYTHING else and just concentrate on sex with your hubby.

That's what I do, of course I am a man


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

UMP said:


> The point I was trying to make was after 24 years of marriage and headed toward 60 years of age, a mans body and mind just does not work the same way it used to. I WANT to be horny, I WANT to lust after my wife, I WANT to consume my wifes body like it was a huge piece of Kobe steak. The porn just helps with this.
> 
> It's like eating steak. You can have the best steak in the world for years and years. If you put a little salt on it, I don't care how good the steak is, it's going to taste better with some salt. IMO.
> Porn is like salt on a steak, it's a condiment.


I think it's great that you want a good sex life with your wife, and having read a lot of your posts I think how you've cleaned up your side of the street to have this sex life is something a lot of guys could learn from. 

I was just pointing out that men who have go through this are not hd, even though many claim to be. 

I still think porn in general is damaging to a marriage and oneself but I also get that it's a complicated issue so you're not going to see me crusading against it.

You have decide for yourself, but acknowledging some of the potential issues will help you make a good decision. 

Not everyone thinks our age difference is a good idea but I'm well aware of the potential issues and have faced them.

I think your odds of success are better when you recognize and face potential problems.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> I think it's great that you want a good sex life with your wife, and having read a lot of your posts I think how you've cleaned up your side of the street to have this sex life is something a lot of guys could learn from.
> 
> I was just pointing out that men who have go through this are not hd, even though many claim to be.
> 
> ...


I think many men who watch porn are HD, but cannot make the transition from porn to a real life wife. I cannot flip a switch and get my wife to perform like a porn star. So many men just give up and stay with what's easy, masturbating to porn. 

Getting my wife to be adventurous and kinky has taken years and years and years of give and take. You also have to realize that sex for a woman is not enjoyable the way it is portrayed in porn. However, I have noticed that in time, if I can get my wife worked up enough, she is JUST as nasty, JUST as sexy, JUST as exciting as the women in porn. I also have the added bonus of no STD's and she is all MINE! ...............And, I say this as a truth TODAY, after being married to the same person for TWENTY FOUR YEARS.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> I wouldn't marry someone currently working as a porn star, though no problem with a former porn star. I might date one though - though sex would be awkward - could she separate "work" sex from "fun" sex.
> 
> Porn star, maid, correctional officer - odds are that we would not have enough in common to make dating or marriage enjoyable.


Thank you for your honesty. I do believe you somewhat mad however, to compare a correctional officer, maid and garment industry worker to a prostitute getting stuffed in all orifices for your masturbating pleasure.

I can assure you in the real world and in rational minds, you declaring that your need to wank off to prostitutes having sex is definitively not even close to the need to secure prisoners, keep a clean environment or make clothing.

That is the comparison you made in an earlier post.

Your straw man angle about casual sex is a non starter as I never mentioned it.

Since you brought it up and not I, I would both date an marry an ex prostitute/porn star if her values had dynamically changed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
there is so much variation in people's sexual interests and fantasies. There is another thread where people are talking about BDSM. Some people find the idea of being spanked or tied up and fcked really exciting. Others find it horrible. 

For some people the "stranger" is an exciting fantasy - for others sex is all about comfort and trust - only their partners are desirable.

I think it is sometimes difficult for people to really understand the sexual interests of others who are so different. Even with my wife of 25 years, I get asked "I don't see why you like XYZ". 








OliviaG said:


> The funny thing is that in all my fantasy thought, my husband is the star of the show. I've even tried, hard, to think of someone else. Someone that I have sparks with. It doesn't work for me. So it's always him! He's often doing things he doesn't normally do though. So an image is not going to be of much use to me...lol..


----------



## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

intheory said:


> So you're HD; just not HD for your wife.
> 
> You realized that porn style sex is not enjoyable for women.
> 
> ...


I am HD as hell for some great sex with my wife.
I just like/need a little salt on my steak. (salt = Viagra, Testosterone cream, wine, porn, vibrator, lube, etc.)
Yes, I trained my wife and she has also trained me. Win - Win.
I honor my wifes "sexual personality" and she honors mine.

BTW- when we are both close to orgasm, we're pretty damn close to having "porn" style sex and it's GOOD for both of us. 

You can call me LD if you want to. I really don't care. I am who I am and I love my wife more than you could possibly imagine.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

@UMP it sounds like she actually likes porn, just not the porn you like. 

Go get some high quality high def modern stuff. 

It could be as simple as she doesn't like giant pubic hair bushes everywhere.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

marduk said:


> Go get some high quality *high def* modern stuff.


IDK marduk, some of that stuff SHOULD NOT be seen in HD :wink2:


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

EllisRedding said:


> IDK marduk, some of that stuff SHOULD NOT be seen in HD :wink2:


You gotta get quality stuff, not some free DVDs that come with your copy of _Swank_.


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

OliviaG said:


> I find that the longer I go with unrequited drive, the wilder my fantasy life becomes. Lately I've had thoughts that I'd never dream would enter my mind. Still, H is always the star, doing stuff he would never, ever do.
> 
> Strangely, although he's the only one in my fantasy life, I've had some thoughts about actual men in real life situations that are quite shocking to me. Thoughts I've never had about any strange (unknown to me) man before. It's actually quite worrisome. This mismatched drive experience is quite an education. I can now understand things about men that I've never understood before. Life is different when some of your sexual needs are not being met.


I love it when the shoe is on the other foot and the light bulb comes on.

Massive realization, and kudos on you for recognizing it.


----------



## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

marduk said:


> @UMP it sounds like she actually likes porn, just not the porn you like.
> 
> Go get some high quality high def modern stuff.
> 
> ...


Yes, she has hinted at more modern stuff, but I think that might be too much. I just need to try some different things and see how it goes. I never thought about the pubs. That 60's 70's stuff is full on BUSH.:grin2:


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

UMP said:


> Yes, she has hinted at more modern stuff, but I think that might be too much. I just need to try some different things and see how it goes. I never thought about the pubs. That 60's 70's stuff is full on BUSH.:grin2:


My wife hates hairy girls in porn.

I'm very OK to support her preference.


----------



## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

OliviaG said:


> Strangely, although he's the only one in my fantasy life,* I've had some thoughts about actual men in real life situations that are quite shocking to me. *Thoughts I've never had about any strange (unknown to me) man before. It's actually quite worrisome. This mismatched drive experience is quite an education. I can now understand things about men that I've never understood before. Life is different when some of your sexual needs are not being met.


This was actually a huge issue for me, and maybe a little bit of a wakeup call. There was a point where I guess best way to put it, I was more aware of women around me, I was more aware of them noticing me, they would cross my mind more, much more than I really should have been comfortable with. When I sat down and started thinking about it, this slight change in my thinking had nothing to do with interest in other women, but had to do with unmet needs I had that I had let manifest for way too long.


----------



## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

OliviaG said:


> Yeah, I totally get that. I used to wonder about people having affairs who said they didn't know how it happened, but it just happened. I'd think, "yeah, I hate it when I accidentally take off all my clothes and get in bet with the wrong guy..."
> 
> But I get the vulnerability now. *I'm not going to cheat, btw, just to be clear.*


Haha, no worries, same as you, I would never cheat. I always say, between my wife and daughter I have more then enough estrogen to deal with on a daily basis, no way am I bringing more into the mix lol. :grin2:

The fact that I have zero interest in cheating is what made me sit down and really sort out what was going on.


----------



## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I think it is very difficult for people who are (relative to their partners) LD and HD to understand each other - unless they have themselves been both.

Someone who has never had all the sex that they want, really can't imagine someone just not feeling like it.

Someone for whom sex has always been available whenever they want it can't imagine what it feels like to not be satisfied. 

To me, all fantasies are completely fine, as long as people are aware of the very real difference between fantasy and reality. 

I view porn as a form of fantasy - its using someone else's fantasy, but it fulfills the same requirement, and also needs to be distinguished from reality. 



When sex is easily available, it is easy to have contempt for people who cheat. When your desires are being ignored in your relationship, the "other" person who offers the intimacy that you are so desperately missing becomes much more attractive. 













OliviaG said:


> I find that the longer I go with unrequited drive, the wilder my fantasy life becomes. Lately I've had thoughts that I'd never dream would enter my mind. Still, H is always the star, doing stuff he would never, ever do.
> 
> Strangely, although he's the only one in my fantasy life, I've had some thoughts about actual men in real life situations that are quite shocking to me. Thoughts I've never had about any strange (unknown to me) man before. It's actually quite worrisome. This mismatched drive experience is quite an education. I can now understand things about men that I've never understood before. Life is different when some of your sexual needs are not being met.


----------



## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

OliviaG said:


> * I can now understand things about men that I've never understood before*. Life is different when some of your sexual needs are not being met.


I've heard the same thing here from many woman whose drive has suddenly spiked in her 40's.

If only there was a way to get the word out.


----------



## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

intheory said:


> You and a few of the other men posting have shared that they cannot masturbate with just a slick hand and thoughts of their wife. The turn-on must come from a different woman.


That's not really fair. I, at least, have said that it's easier to masturbate with visual stimulation. It has nothing to do with other women. A recording of my wife and I would probably do; if it weren't for the old fat guy in the video!


----------



## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

OliviaG said:


> Well, I'll do my part.


Good, I've just booked you on The Tonight Show.


----------



## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Buddy400 said:


> That's not really fair. I, at least, have said that it's easier to masturbate with visual stimulation. It has nothing to do with other women. A recording of my wife and I would probably do; if it weren't for the old fat guy in the video!


Agreed, not sure if her post was directed at us. If so then that is completely misunderstanding the points we have made.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Buddy400 said:


> I've heard the same thing here from many woman whose drive has suddenly spiked in her 40's.


Never thought I would say this, patiently waiting for my wife to get into her 40s lol.


----------



## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

OliviaG said:


> I've been HD for a long time, but the past 8 months have been ridiculous.


40s and the kids will be a little older, that might be like winning the powerball :grin2:


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> 40s and the kids will be a little older, that might be like winning the powerball :grin2:


The trick is for your wife's libido to increase before yours decreases!


----------



## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Careful what you wish for, sometimes these changes are for 2 weeks a few times and then there is nothing.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> 40s and the kids will be a little older, that might be like winning the powerball :grin2:


Kids out of the house makes a BIG difference! Assuming that you and your wife still like each other.


----------



## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

intheory said:


> I didn't call you LD anywhere.
> 
> No, I would not consider your natural sex drive to be high.
> 
> ...


Many, many women (like my wife) are limiting the amount of sex to a degree the man (like me) has unmet sexual tension. What do you say about these wives who "hurt" their husbands by having a much lower sex drive? Why only the man should be "called out" for masturbating to porn?

Like I've said repeatedly, I would prefer to have sex with my wife and if we did this "every other day" (like we did earlier in the marriage) then I'd practically never masturbate and I'd rarely even think about porn!
So my wife plays a role here in the fact I am masturbating in between sexual encounters because she does not want to have sex.
I respect her limits and I don't try to push that further. And she respects my needs and doesn't try to control the what/where/how of my self pleasure.


----------



## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Buddy400 said:


> The trick is for your wife's libido to increase before yours decreases!


I have been bottling up mine for years now just waiting to unleash it 



Buddy400 said:


> Kids out of the house makes a BIG difference! Assuming that you and your wife still like each other.


I will settle for just not requiring hours each night getting them to bed! I don't think these kids are ever leaving us, so when they are older they better get a good pair of earplugs >


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> I will settle for just not requiring hours each night getting them to bed! I don't think these kids are ever leaving us, so when they are older they better get a good pair of earplugs >


Rule #1: Firm bedtimes!


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

MarriageBuilders has said that he wished women could be injected with testosterone to understand what men go through and that men should be injected with estrogen to see what women go through. Then I think we would have a lot more empathy for each other.

Also, I cannot help but see porn to be disgusting to me as a woman for the destruction it causes to many people's lives and how catered it is to male fantasy that it becomes unfriendly to me. It doesn't represent real sex. That is my reaction as a woman.

I have heard and seen female friendly porn and that stuff does not give me the violent reaction that mainstream porn does because it seems much more reciprocal and mature. It feels like two adults instead of a man and a child-woman. 

Whats hard for me is that this is my honest reaction but that does not mean that the men who are posting on this site I see as immoral or bad people and I don't want that to be the message coming from me. 

I just honestly have an ill reaction to mainstream porn.


----------



## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

I also want to make one other point. 

As a women I see pornographic images of women everywhere. That's why I think a lot of women get upset. There is this image of women sexuality sold all over that is completely receptive and wants whatever the man wants and caters only to male fantasy. Billboard images. On buses. In commercials.

There is no sexual image of women that is of a mature women who has a sexuality that feels real to me as a woman. 

It's just another reinforcement that our sexual needs are not as important.

I really wish men could see what it was like to have their image posted everywhere divorced from their sexual reality. There was such a backlash against Twilight and 50 shades of grey and rightfully so. But I think a reaction to that is also men not comfortable with seeing sexualized images of their gender in the same way that sexualized images of women are shown. An image of a man created just to please women. 

I don't like gender wars on TAM but I do think the genders do face different realities in some ways and I think this is one of them


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Mainstream media just portrays us as brainless cavemen.


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

richie33 said:


> Mainstream media just portrays us as brainless cavemen.


Which I think is a disservice to men everywhere and gives women an idea that men must be treated as children.


----------



## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

intheory said:


> I think it's awful that your wife has mistreated you this way. I wonder what she was thinking when she agreed to be married.
> 
> If you would prefer to have sex with your wife over porn, I think you are a completely normal healthy man.
> 
> ...


Yes, this is the major difference. @tommyr If your W will NOT have sex with you or isn't at least trying to fulfill her end of things in that department, then yeah, knock yourself out. That's not the situation we were referring to anyway (at least I wasn't, I don't think the others were either).

We are talking about watching porn in favor over having sex with your W, watching too much porn and having it alter your view (which happens and some people don't even realize it), watching porn if it hurts your spouse and he/she IS having sex with you on the daily and is fulfilling their end of the contract. Basically any viewing that is HARMING and not HELPING the relationship. 

What you're doing seems perfectly fine.

When my H watches porn, he does so for way too long and then after a while, he starts to compare me to the porn stars. When he does this, he starts picking at my appearance. He mentioned to me the other day, "Wonder what you would look like if you did your eyebrows the way the girls are doing them now, you should try it." 

My damn eyebrows? really? lol. 

All I said was, "I will probably look like one of those girls with too much caked on makeup and drawn on eyebrows." 

I'm too old (at 32 har har) to go and highlight and draw myself new eyebrows. I fill mine in with my powder or pencil, but I am NOT going to spend 20 freaking mins trying to paint myself new ones. Not for him, not for anyone. 


If you're not doing any of this, you're good. Not sure why you're so defensive about it all. We understand that if your W isn't having sex with you, porn is a good alternative. I don't think anyone here said it wasn't. 

Plenty of women here have admitted they don't particularity care for it. I think it's fine if they do or do not. It's all personal preference. Just because they don't like it, doesn't mean you can't.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

What about the problem that most if not all porn is intrinsically demeaning to women (not to mention men), in that it reduces the sexual act to nothing more than an animalistic act?
The woman is usually a mere 'prop' for male fantasy.

The ideal of sex in marriage is an act of love. Porn is almost always the diametric opposite of a love act.


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

intheory said:


> masturbate with just a slick hand and thoughts of your wife.


Not to thread-jack, but this cracked me up intheory. 

I think its going to go into my sig line.

If I would ever form a band? Got my name

Masturbate with a Slick Hand. 

You guys hear MSH? They [email protected] rock!!


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> So am I to assume you would not date a maid, correctional officer or a garment factory worker?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nope. I need a woman with a college education. Same reason I wouldn't date a porn star, unless she was an astrophysicist. In that case, I'd probably stalk her.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Any of you guys seen Orgazmo?

It's by the south park guys and is hilarious. One of the main characters has PhD's in engineering and physics from MIT but does porn so he can screw women who wouldn't give him the time of day. 

Then he uses his education to make a gun that shoots a beam which gives people orgasms. 

Funny movie. I think there are a bunch of real porn stars in it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

intheory said:


> That's interesting, Cletus. (Bit of a threadjack here, but):
> 
> Would you rather be married to a college educated woman who is a great person but who only wants sex once every two months.
> 
> ...


I want both, of course! 

But given that I'm still married 30 years to a woman who wants vanilla sex about once a week, I think you have your answer.

Sex is an important aspect of a happy relationship, but you can't be having sex all the time. If you're living with someone with whom you can't hold a conversation about anything more advanced than the weather, it won't be long before the time between sex starts to interfere with the wanting to have sex. 

When I said college educated, I misspoke. I should have said intellectually curious and intelligent - things than anyone can have with or without a college degree. In the US, a college degree is the best first-level filter for those attributes. 

Sex for all of us will decline with age. Who wants to be stuck in a house with a person to whom you can neither talk nor f*ck? 

To stay marginally on topic, I am an infrequent casual porn user who has backfilled his lackluster sex life with a low dose of erotica. Would I go so far as to say it has saved my marriage? Probably not, but it certainly hasn't hurt. I am always aroused by and available for my wife to decide what we will do, when, where and how we will do it.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Cletus said:


> I am always aroused by and available for my wife to decide what we will do, when, where and how we will do it.


Question: Do you wait for your wife to initiate then? I am genuinely curious because my husband NEVER initiates, then accuses me of not wanting sex.


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

jorgegene said:


> What about the problem that most if not all porn is intrinsically demeaning to women (not to mention men), in that it reduces the sexual act to nothing more than an animalistic act?
> *The woman is usually a mere 'prop' for male fantasy.*
> 
> The ideal of sex in marriage is an act of love. Porn is almost always the diametric opposite of a love act.



I keep on bringing this up because the thread is about porn and women. In my limited study of myself and friends, the distaste has come from the dehumanization of women.

That does not mean that the men who consume pornography are evil or that necessarily all pornography's effects are evil. There are positive benefits to porn that I can see as well.


But as a woman I cannot help but see the dehumanization aspect. That is why I have such a strong reaction to it. That is my bias. I don't need everyone to see that way but I would like for some to read my post and just empathize even if it is not agreeance at all.

There was a really great debate on Ex Machina which is a deconstruction on pron on Ride Along 2 (lol)



> What I'm trying to get at is this. First, the parade of androids who came before Ava is most certainly an intentional choice to show us the extent of Nathan's fetishism of the female body in a variety of racialized forms. He has taken an aspect of porn to its logical endpoint: dehumanized female bodies to be abused and exploited in every variety, locked away naked under the gaze of the camera, physically used for momentary pleasure and for the later imagined re-experience of that pleasure (for Nathan). What we see on those videos is not unlike the scenarios found in plenty of porn, written or filmed. There the racial diversity is another form of the way Nathan has commodified the female body: like product lines that come in a variety of colors. It's a natural extension of the comment the movie is making more broadly about objectification, sexism, and the very premise of the sexbot.
> 
> Which is why Ex Machina is the final word on the subgenre: it exposes the utter smallminded venality of the whole enterprise, and the fact that it absolutely relies on the reduction of women to bodies without personhood. The sexbot movie is just an exercise in the question, "can I consider this seductive alien body a person?" Ex Machina answers, "Yes; you can and you must."


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I think people may disagree on whether or not porn is demeaning. I think it comes to a question of whether sex, absent of any emotional connection, is demeaning. 

(some porn IS openly demeaning, mostly to women, some to men)




jorgegene said:


> What about the problem that most if not all porn is intrinsically demeaning to women (not to mention men), in that it reduces the sexual act to nothing more than an animalistic act?
> The woman is usually a mere 'prop' for male fantasy.
> 
> The ideal of sex in marriage is an act of love. Porn is almost always the diametric opposite of a love act.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> Question: Do you wait for your wife to initiate then? I am genuinely curious because my husband NEVER initiates, then accuses me of not wanting sex.


Yes, FTMP. 

I learned a long, long time ago that the sex, while less frequent, is a lot better when I let her make most of the decisions, including when. I think the dynamic might allow for more initiation on my part now in an empty nest, but old habits that work die hard.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I'm not Cletus ,but I'll answer too.

the first would not make me happy - though it is sadly close to what I've had most of my life. 

For the second, it isn't the college education in particular, but I need to be with someone who is interesting to talk to over a long time. Often that is correlated with education, but there are many exceptions. 





intheory said:


> That's interesting, Cletus. (Bit of a threadjack here, but):
> 
> Would you rather be married to a college educated woman who is a great person but who only wants sex once every two months.
> 
> ...


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Nope. I need a woman with a college education. Same reason I wouldn't date a porn star, unless she was an astrophysicist. In that case, I'd probably stalk her.


LOL!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> I think people may disagree on whether or not porn is demeaning. I *think it comes to a question of whether sex, absent of any emotional connection, is demeaning.
> *
> (some porn IS openly demeaning, mostly to women, some to men)


Good question.

I have had sex outside of a relationship. It still had emotions. Not love but emotions and it was meaningful because it was an experience between two human beings.

I think porn makes it easier to forget the humanity and agency of an individual. I think video is a huge part of that

I was just having a conversation about prostitution and I actually feel that sex therapists who have sex with their clients are a positive force. I think prostitutes who genuinely have agency and choice are a positive force. 

I think them being in person has a huge part of that.

Forced prostitution due to coercion physically, emotionally, financially is not included in that


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Cletus said:


> Yes, FTMP.
> 
> I learned a long, long time ago that the sex, while less frequent, is a lot better when I let her make most of the decisions, including when. I think the dynamic might allow for more initiation on my part now in an empty nest, but old habits that work die hard.


Interesting. Thanks for your answer. 

Do you make her feel sexy, and let her know that you're interested?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> Interesting. Thanks for your answer.
> 
> Do you make her feel sexy, and let her know that you're interested?


Of course. That's part of why she makes sure to initiate at least once a week.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Cletus said:


> Of course. That's part of why she makes sure to initiate at least once a week.


I like how you said "Of course" :grin2: I wish my husband did. It sounds like you and she are doing pretty well in this regard, relatively speaking. Does she know what your porn/erotica use habits are?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> I like how you said "Of course" :grin2: I wish my husband did. It sounds like you and she are doing pretty well in this regard, relatively speaking.


I take most of the credit for how well we're doing. It required me to let her be who she is without (frequent) resentment of the fact that it's a long, long way from what I would like. 



> Does she know what your porn/erotica use habits are?


Not really. She doesn't like it, so we're implicit believers in the Dan Savage model - don't ask, don't tell. I pretend to not do it, and she pretends to believe me.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Cletus said:


> It required me to let her be who she is


This is often helpful, in many different areas.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> I think people may disagree on whether or not porn is demeaning. I think it comes to a question of whether sex, absent of any emotional connection, is demeaning.
> 
> (some porn IS openly demeaning, mostly to women, some to men)


true.

i think that it demeans because it ignores the personhood of that individual, ie. the soul, personality, and totality of the person and presents the body only as a 'thing'. 

for me, the high ideal IS for a purely emotional connection.
that's a hard road to travel, but not impossible i don't think.

beyond porn (or hardcore porn) where does this ideal begin and end? even looking at nekkid women is a violation of this ideal.
why? because again, it objectifies the body only, at the expense of the person. a hard road to follow indeed, and i'm not there yet, but that is the ultimate end goal if you believe it.

in the purest form of love between man and woman, there is only the two, in mind, body, soul and thoughts. can it be done?
not easily, but then nothing worth attaining in the highest expressions of human devotion are easy.


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

jorgegene said:


> true.
> 
> i think that it demeans because it ignores the personhood of that individual, ie. the soul, personality, and totality of the person and presents the body only as a 'thing'.
> 
> ...


Beautifully said


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

jorgegene said:


> beyond porn (or hardcore porn) where does this ideal begin and end? even looking at nekkid women is a violation of this ideal.
> why? because again, it objectifies the body only, at the expense of the person.


Somewhere between these two photos! At which point it becomes violent, rather offensive, and just inappropriate!


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

staarz21 said:


> When my H watches porn, he does so for way too long and then after a while, he starts to compare me to the porn stars. When he does this, he starts picking at my appearance. He mentioned to me the other day, "Wonder what you would look like if you did your eyebrows the way the girls are doing them now, you should try it."
> 
> My damn eyebrows? really? lol.
> 
> All I said was, "I will probably look like one of those girls with too much caked on makeup and drawn on eyebrows." .


If you answered him with a similar dis, he would never say anything like that again. Have you ever answered him by comparing him to porn sized penises or actors with banging bodies? ""I'm with you hubby, I wonder what it would be like to have a man who looks like .... ". 

Or "glad you said that, I can share with you now, I wonder what it would be like to have a man with a penis the size of lthose porn guys you like looking at honey. Is there anything you can do with yourself". 

Women rarely shoot back a response that gives the man a bit of their own medicine. Wanting someone who looks good, is a good lover, charming personality is not just a male thing. Women want it too but they protect the male ego not saying anything or don't want to seem like a ball buster or ****. 

Instead they give up trying to meet impossible standard and just hide out and stop having sex. It might be better to remind an insensitive man of his flaws. 

Every time he compares you to a porn actress compare him to the ideal male. By not saying anything, you let him assume he was in a position to judge you. Why??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> If you answered him with a similar dis, he would never say anything like that again. Have you ever answered him by comparing him to porn sized penises or actors with banging bodies? ""I'm with you hubby, I wonder what it would be like to have a man who looks like .... ".
> 
> Or "glad you said that, I can share with you now, I wonder what it would be like to have a man with a penis the size of lthose porn guys you like looking at honey. Is there anything you can do with yourself".
> 
> ...


Completely agree..... nothing has the same effect as a little empathy. Your hb judges you because he has been made to feel superior and thus entitled. .... what he brings to the table doesn't occur to him. 

Start communicating what you're entitled to and how nice it would be if he could provide it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Somehow women are acculturated to tread carefully when the male ego is involved. Even some men with low rank, make unkind comments about women. If women redirected their focus, the problem would be solved. Women should be helpful, and assist these men to look at their faults and to work on them. They'd be so busy they would have no time to run women down.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

OliviaG said:


> Suggestion @staarz21 : you could ask him to start jelquing, and then take measurements regularly to keep tabs on his "progress". Make sure you voice your disappointment if his improvement doesn't keep pace with your expectations.


Can you imagine what it would do to the man? Devastating. I would say that very very few women would go this route. That's why so many men feel free to tear down women. 

Empathy can be learned and @staarz21 should help her husband grow as a human being.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

Lol you ladies crack me up! I would compare his peen to porn stars, except he's already very well endowed. I think that's where part of his "ego" come from. He's had plenty women gloat about his size - me included early on. I don't ever talk about it anymore though. 

I used to dismiss him often because I didn't feel attractive enough to say anything back. I mean, this type of thing has been said about different parts of my body over the past 7 years. I have poked back at him here and there a bit.

I DO know that I can mention his weight. He's gained some lately and sort of looks like a 5 month pregnant woman now. 

It just feels immature to me sometimes. I mean, I don't want to hurt him. It's not my nature to try and make someone feel bad about themselves. Not only that, but I'm not sure I even care enough to say anything back now. It doesn't hurt my feelings, it just makes me look at him like he's a damn crazy person. I mean, unless I shaved my eyebrows off, why would he even care what they look like? It just seems crazy to me that he notices stuff like that lol. 

HOWEVER, I don't disagree that he should get a little of his own medicine every once in a while.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

VirgenTecate said:


> Also, I cannot help but see porn to be disgusting to me as a woman for the destruction it causes to many people's lives and how catered it is to male fantasy that it becomes unfriendly to me. It doesn't represent real sex. That is my reaction as a woman.


The concern I have with that statement is that for the vast, overwhelming majority of people...

Porn isn't an issue at all. It's a toy that they play with every once in a while and then put back in the box and don't worry about.

For the vast, overwhelming majority of relationships I've had this is the way it was.

To cast it aside because some people can't deal with it would be like going back to prohibition for alcohol. I know you're not saying that, but what I'm saying is that you don't hear about the silent majority for which it's not a problem.

There's always gonna be porn. It could be my teenage boy drawing boobies all the way to hardcore sadomasochistic porn. It's a whole giant spectrum of stuff... From art to 60's playboys to 'big'uns.'


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> Somehow women are acculturated to tread carefully when the male ego is involved.


I see this, too, Catherine. I think it is very unhelpful.


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

marduk said:


> The concern I have with that statement is that for the vast, overwhelming majority of people...
> 
> *Porn isn't an issue at all. It's a toy that they play with every once in a while and then put back in the box and don't worry about.*
> 
> ...


 The people who produce are not toys and yet we treat their bodies like they are. This is why it is dehumanizing.

My problem is not just what effect it has on the consumers but what effect it has on the producers.

Its like marijuana. Some people are addicted to it. Most use it in a normal healthy way.
It still doesn't take away from the fact that it comes from a drug trade that has destroyed many lives from Latin America the countries where they are produced.

We dehumanize when we think the product is worth the people's lives that it takes to produce it. Its a toy to you as the consumer but it is someone's life on the other side of the screen. 

We as a society are also influenced by the things we see. I just cannot believe that sexuality has not been influenced by porn.

How can I injest marijuana when I know the human cost? How can I injest porn when I know the human cost?

I know that for some producers of marijuana it is beneficial as well as for porn. 

I don't consider drawn art to be even anywhere near the same since it doesn't involve real people

Edit: I respect your opinion marduk and for you continuing the debate with me. I obviously have my strong opinions and bias in this area but that does not mean that your conflicting opinion is not appreciated.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

VirgenTecate said:


> My problem is not just what effect it has on the consumers but what effect it has on the producers.
> 
> Its like marijuana. Some people are addicted to it. Most use it in a normal healthy way.
> 
> ...


How can you drive a car knowing the cost in human lives?

How can you go on the Internet knowing the technology you're using right now was substantially developed to serve porn and hook people up?

Should I not drink because some people are alcoholics? Not spank my wife if she wants me to because some guys abuse their wives?

I'm quite sure refined sugar harms more people than porn.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

marduk said:


> How can you drive a car knowing the cost in human lives?
> 
> How can you go on the Internet knowing the technology you're using right now was substantially developed to serve porn and hook people up?
> 
> ...



I said earlier that we all are hypocrites in some way. I think we should do our best to cut down on our damage. I think porn is an easy one. That is my own personal opinion.

You are talking about tools being used in different ways and I am talking about the cost of production. 

To produce alcohol does not mean that the producers who are making alcohol are being abused. 

How one chooses to use a product is not the same.

Again, I am more upset with the cost of the producers of porn, the men and women in the videos, then the affect of those watching it.

Though I still do believe that viewing human being bodies as tools does affect how we view them. That is not the only point I am trying to make so just for us to go deeper into conversation, I would like to know your opinion about the cost of the producers and if that implicates anything about our responsibility to consume it or not.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

OliviaG said:


> This is a really good argument. (Not being sarcastic.)


To be clear, I'm not trying to argue against VT's view of porn. She clearly respects people's choice. 

I just don't quite get the harm aspect. Or the 'pornification' aspect. 

When I pick up a random non-porn men's magazine and women's magazine, I pretty much see the same thing: half naked women. 

And the half naked women on men's magazines tend not to be as unreasonably skinny and stick like as on women's magazines. But one thing is clear: both sexes like to look at half naked attractive women. Otherwise they wouldn't be on the cover selling magazines to both sexes.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

VirgenTecate said:


> I said earlier that we all are hypocrites in some way. I think we should do our best to cut down on our damage. I think porn is an easy one. That is my own personal opinion.
> 
> You are talking about tools being used in different ways and I am talking about the cost of production.
> 
> ...


What about women that like making porn?


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

OliviaG said:


> This is a really good argument. (Not being sarcastic.)


I know you are not but at the same time I don't think we should ignore the effects of one thing simply because something else has greater effects.


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

marduk said:


> What about women that like making porn?


Those do exist and I don't deny it. In fact I follow one of those woman because she inspires me. I don't think she was coerced or has no agency.

But I also wonder how much agency these women have and understand the consequences when they are younger women who may like men's attention. How much of their like is healthy? 



Now I am going to not participate as much as I have a report to type up but I will jump in later.


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

marduk said:


> To be clear, I'm not trying to argue against VT's view of porn. She clearly respects people's choice.
> 
> I just don't quite get the harm aspect. Or the 'pornification' aspect.
> 
> ...


But how much of that viewing is healthy? We see constantly that when women view these magazines they have a lower self-esteem. 

We can like things that are not beneficial to our mental health.


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

OliviaG said:


> I thought you were also referring to the harm done to the producers of the product (in addition to consumers).


Both

I want to know about the effect on producers as well because we have focused much on the consumers


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

OliviaG said:


> It's not just the effects, it's the abuse of people associated with making the product. Read about the history of sugar: it's appalling. That was the argument you were making: the destruction to the producers of the product, not just to the consumers. I thought that Marduk came up with a good rebuttal and just wanted to acknowledge that.
> 
> But one can argue that refusing to consume refined sugar is just as easy as refusing to consume porn. It would save tons of money and your health, as well. Why not consider it, if one is concerned about such negative influences?
> 
> I'm playing devil's advocate here, because it really is a good point.


Thank you for letting me know that because I didn't know the history of making the product.

I'm looking at porn but I actually do just want us to think about how we are interconnected and how our consumer choices affect real people's lives. I think many times the message I hear is that if you enjoy the consumption of the product, don't think about the cost of the production. We are discussing porn here so I am trying to discuss the cost.

I have changed my diet because of moral concerns. I am vegetarian and cook most of my meals. I try to buy local. Am I perfect? No. 

I am not asking us to stop everything that has a negative influence, we would have to not be alive. Just try to be more aware and cut down. I don't believe our lives are just to consume products we like but to live moral lives. That is my personal bias. 

I would prefer a world in which the production of sugar did not lead to such a cost of human lives. I cannot change the whole world but I can change my actions. If I change my actions I can dream of that world instead of throwing my arms up in the air and squash that dream.

This is my value. It does not have to be everyone's. I enjoy hearing what other people think about consumption on our morality.


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

OliviaG said:


> I don't feel like you're imposing your morality, I thought you just wanted to debate a point. I guess we should keep on the topic of porn since that's what the thread is about. But in keeping with that, if you feel strongly that you want to avoid products that are harmful to producers and consumers you will most definitely eliminate refined sugar consumption. It's a no-brainer; there's zero downside. It's hard to argue the position that you're arguing if you don't examine your consumption of other products that have similar negative qualities.


I agree with you. I have tried to eliminate the effect that my consumption of food has had in the world. I did not know about the effects of refined sugar so I will try to avoid that as well. That is why I appreciate you telling me. I do not like to contribute to something that is harmful.

At the same time I don't think we can ever totally eliminate negative effects. Just try to be a positive force instead of a negative force.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

VirgenTecate said:


> Both
> 
> I want to know about the effect on producers as well because we have focused much on the consumers


My point is this: people don't seem to have a lack of abundance of hot people willing to have sex with each other on camera. 

I remember walking past a lineup of hot scantily clad women one day in LA. 

When I walked past the door, it was a casting call for some kind of porn. 

Or seeing whatever that porn convention is in Vegas, when we walked through as a happy accident. Those performers clearly liked being there and were having a good time signing posters of themselves naked. Exhibitionists I'm sure.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

VirgenTecate said:


> But how much of that viewing is healthy? We see constantly that when women view these magazines they have a lower self-esteem.
> 
> We can like things that are not beneficial to our mental health.


Do we see that constantly?

There's the silent majority problem again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

OliviaG said:


> The problem is, if you seriously examined everything that you consume or use according to these guidelines, you'd have a very circumscribed existence. The question is where does one draw the line?


I still struggle with answering that question to be honest.

I still drive a car. I still have air conditioning etc etc

It may have to be an individual thing. To understand what it is that we need to have successful lives and what is the fat that we can cut to minimize impact.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

OliviaG said:


> ^And in a further parallel to porn use, there is no downside eliminating its consumption, other than the enjoyment that one gets from it.


I dunno. 

One could argue that in a prudish western society that doesn't talk to people about healthy sex, some kind of sexual education is better than none. One could counter argue that what happens in porn is unrealistic, but then I'd counter that by saying that there's a lot of fun things that I've tried only after seeing it in porn. 

I knew a girl for example that thought blowjobs were just made up until she saw it in porn.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

OliviaG said:


> ^...and before I sign out, another question in addition to "Where does one draw the line?":
> 
> Question #2: Should others have to draw the line where you do? Why or why not? Who should be the judge?


No, I don't think people should draw the line where I do. Individuals have to decide what we can do with and what we can do without otherwise it is not a moral decision it is a passive forced decision that comes with coercion. Though we do see lines being drawn in the law. A very extreme case of this would be the banning of child pornography. That is not for individuals to decide if they should consume it or not.
@marduk,

In my opinion that is not backed by research but just living as a woman and knowing other woman, I think it is very common and I think it is difficult for men to see that position.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

marduk said:


> To be clear, I'm not trying to argue against VT's view of porn. She clearly respects people's choice.
> 
> I just don't quite get the harm aspect. Or the 'pornification' aspect.
> 
> ...


It has always been interesting to me to see the difference between women in mens' mags and women in womens' mags, and the difference is noticeable.

My theory, though not politically correct, is that gay men are heavily involved in the fashion industry and prefer women to look like adolescent boys which is why you get the skinny, no breast having women.

But men want breasts so the women in mens' mags have huge fake ones as well as lots of other procedures.

I also think it's a calculated effort to make women feel bad about themselves so they'll spend a ton of money trying for something they'll never achieve because even the cover model couldn't achieve it.....her image is altered.

Money rules everything. Men get it too, though maybe to a lesser extent: all of those hair loss commercials are an attempt to get you to spend money. Most women don't care that much about your hairline if you own it.

It's well known that the prime model years for mainstream fashion mags are in the teens and mainly until they actually develop hips, which they starve themselves like hvll to avoid as long as possible.

I haven't look at one of those idiotic magazines in years but when I see one on the racks I mostly feel bad for them. I imagine that they've been sold on the idea that their looks are where most of their value is and to me most of them look terrible. And since they photoshop the crap out of those pictures these women, after all they go through to even look remotely like that, are still not good enough.

What you see usually looks very little like the actual person.

How must Kelly Clarkson have felt when she saw how much they photoshopped her before they'd be willing to be associated with her?

http://www.beautyredefined.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Kelly-Clarkson-Cover-Compare.jpg

To me it's just sad.....I feel bad for her.

A couple of times when my husband has commented on model covers I've responded with "yeah, it's a big fvcking achievement to have a picture of yourself photoshopped until magazine editors consider it presentable". 
I'm pretty sure any photographer could take a pic of me all fvcked up from running and photoshop it into a magazine cover with enough skill. That shuts him up.

I once showed him an unphotoshopped picture of a bikini model he made some comments about to see if he'd recognize her.

He didn't.

But in case you wondered who it was here's the pic:
https://www.google.com/search?q=bro...klaC0-fhM:&usg=__uoiwC3LKMfQigF-0ojO9gVTL2d4=


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

OliviaG said:


> You have just about got me convinced that I should watch some porn to see if I'm missing anything...lol..


Good porn is one of the joys of life. 

I'm not kidding.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

lifeistooshort said:


> It has always been interesting to me to see the difference between women in mens' mags and women in womens' mags, and the difference is noticeable.
> 
> My theory, though not politically correct, is that gay men are heavily involved in the fashion industry and prefer women to look like adolescent boys which is why you get the skinny, no breast having women.
> 
> ...


They are so hot. So, so very hot.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

Pornification has happened much more to one gender than the other. I think this is why women are so much more upset and sensitive to it because they feel affects of objectification much more than men have. The reality is that men's bodies are not sold the same as women's are. I have heard from men who hear objectifying comments about their body that they felt a lot more empathy for women's complaints about objectification after going through it themselves.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

marduk said:


> They are so hot. So, so very hot.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think the one on the left looks like a crackhead (as do most of the VS models before photoshop), but the other two look just fine to me.

But no magazine would print them like that......they need to be photoshopped.

That was my point. Even like that they're not good enough.

So what's going on?

I once had a woman who'd been involved in the fashion industry tell me that the reason they get crackhead looking models is because the clothes look better on them.

I looked at her and said "maybe to you". She looked at me in disbelief because she'd been so brainwashed by the industry that it never occurred to her that not everyone would agree.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

One could argue that reality shows like the Bad Girls Club, Real Housewives, the Bachelor / Bachelorette are doing as much damage to women than porn is.


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

richie33 said:


> One could argue that reality shows like the Bad Girls Club, Real Housewives, the Bachelor / Bachelorette are doing as much damage to women than porn is.


I see it all as a part of the same problem where our bodies are prized over our other qualities. Simply because women consume these things does not mean that it is healthy.

Just like earlier in the thread where I think it is damaging how men are portrayed as cavemen. Simply because men act up to that does not mean that it is healthy for men.

I truly do believe that the media we consume affects how we think.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

marduk said:


> I knew a girl for example that thought blowjobs were just made up until she saw it in porn...


... and I married her.

Perhaps we could create a new category of Free Range Porn. No humans were harmed, dehumanized, or coerced in the making.

Come to think of it, much of what is marketed today as "amateur" probably fits this description.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

VirgenTecate said:


> I see it all as a part of the same problem where our bodies are prized over our other qualities. Simply because women consume these things does not mean that it is healthy.
> 
> Just like earlier in the thread where I think it is damaging how men are portrayed as cavemen. Simply because men act up to that does not mean that it is healthy for men.
> 
> I truly do believe that the media we consume affects how we think.


I see it as the dumbing down of America.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Cletus said:


> ... and I married her.
> 
> Perhaps we could create a new category of Free Range Porn. No humans were harmed, dehumanized, or coerced in the making.
> 
> Come to think of it, much of what is marketed today as "amateur" probably fits this description.


I'd imagine if that's what people really wanted the professional industry would die out.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

VirgenTecate said:


> I see it all as a part of the same problem where our bodies are prized over our other qualities. Simply because women consume these things does not mean that it is healthy.


Is it not everyone's right to determine those things they prize highly in another? Why is my elevating your mind, personality, or housekeeping habits to Prized Status more acceptable? 

Would a web site featuring smart women reading Chaucer aloud be linguistic pornography?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> I'd imagine if that's what people really wanted the professional industry would die out.


Die out? Probably not. But I suspect you'd be VERY surprised by the demand that already exists, and is growing all the time. It's not just a small-scale niche market.


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

Cletus said:


> ... and I married her.
> 
> *Perhaps we could create a new category of Free Range Porn. No humans were harmed, dehumanized, or coerced in the making.*
> 
> Come to think of it, much of what is marketed today as "amateur" probably fits this description.


I would be much less averse to this type of pornography and much more likely to see the positives. I think sexuality is a part of who we are as humans and there is a postie way to express that societal. I do not see mainstream porn as being a positive way.



> Is it not everyone's right to determine those things they prize highly in another? Why is my elevating your mind, personality, or housekeeping habits to Prized Status more acceptable?
> 
> Would a web site featuring smart women reading Chaucer aloud be linguistic pornography?


It is everyone's right to determine those things they prize highly in another. But society also has a way of force feeding us what we should praise and creating a demand for it. Pornography influencing the normalization of anal sex is an example.

Women keep on getting fed the message that their bodies is all that they are worth. If they were fed the message that their minds were all that they were worth I would also find it destructive.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Die out? Probably not. But I suspect you'd be VERY surprised by the demand that already exists, and is growing all the time. It's not just a small-scale niche market.


I have no doubt. 

I am curious though if addiction to amateur porn is as harmful as addiction to professional porn.

Intuitively you'd think it wouldn't be because it involves real couples and normal looking people.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> I have no doubt.
> 
> I am curious though if addiction to amateur porn is as harmful as addiction to professional porn.
> 
> ...


I think it changes a lot of things those two factors.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> I have no doubt.
> 
> I am curious though if addiction to amateur porn is as harmful as addiction to professional porn.
> 
> ...


I can say this, if my H was watching more TRUE amateur porn, he would not have a negative thing to say about my body. At all. It's the mainstream, filtered stuff that is messing the minds of SOME men. 

Guys are going to do what they want anyway. They will watch porn, whatever porn they want, in the amount they want to. There are NO issues with that, unless there is. Even if there is, they deny it or lie about it. 

My H completely lied to a friend of his when he was trying to get advice. I read an email he sent his friend that said he was casually watching porn from time to time....

Uh if he meant from time to time being every freaking day for at least 2 hours, if not more, then sure...that's occasional! NOT! omg. 

His friend wrote back to him telling him that I was nuts and he needed to divorce me and run away. Seriously? :grin2: mmmmmk.


I've only met one man who has had such a problem with porn...that's my H. So, I don't think it's some huge epidemic. I do think it's increasing though and that more of it should at least be realistic. But what do I know? :laugh:


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

lifeistooshort said:


> I see it as the dumbing down of America.


Except that IQs and education levels are actually increasing in America. 

Albeit slower than they used to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

VirgenTecate said:


> I would be much less averse to this type of pornography and much more likely to see the positives. I think sexuality is a part of who we are as humans and there is a postie way to express that societal. I do not see mainstream porn as being a positive way.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think there's a counter argument though. 

I can say as a man that I've met many women who are so averse to being valued for their sexuality that they disconnect from it. 

I knew one for example that thought wearing lingerie was somehow betraying her fellow women. Even wanting to. I objectify my wife all the time, even though I love her. Sometimes she's uncomfortable with that because of this. 

Every polarization creates opposites and unintended consequences.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

VirgenTecate said:


> I would be much less averse to this type of pornography and much more likely to see the positives. I think sexuality is a part of who we are as humans and there is a postie way to express that societal. I do not see mainstream porn as being a positive way.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh, and to finish my point, isn't the normalization of mutually pleasurable sexual acts a good thing?

I mean, I guarantee the Romans did anal all the time. I think we've lost touch with much of our sexuality due to western prudish kinda thinking.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

marduk said:


> I think there's a counter argument though.
> 
> I can say as a man that I've met many women who are so averse to being valued for their sexuality that they disconnect from it.
> 
> ...


I agree with you and I like how you pointed out that IQ is increasing in the USA.

I don't think my opinion is the final say on the matter either.

I still think sexuality is an important part of living. I simply think we are polarized a bit too much to pornification of female sexuality right now in American society. The pendulum has swung too far in one direction.

I do not want us to uphold modest female sexuality and resemble Saudi Arabian morals either. 

I would like for us to be more moderate. I am optimistic that with rational discussions about sexuality we will be.

I like my fiance's male sexuality and how he reacts to seeing me. I like wearing lingerie. I have given him pornographic images of me to him. 

I just have objections to the mistreatment of men and women in the porn industry and I have objections to upholding women's beauty as their ultimate value to the point where aging women are treated as lesser than. I think the media presenting pornified women's bodies contribute to this. I would like society to value men and women as human beings first. 

We have a lot of debates on MRA and feminism but I am approaching this topic through my own personal views and a humanistic viewpoint as best as I can represent that.

I think society can do better for us. 

I want to reiterate that this :


> Every polarization creates opposites and unintended consequences.


is quite true. I don't want someone to take my views and make them the the absolute either.



> Oh, and to finish my point, isn't the normalization of mutually pleasurable sexual acts a good thing?
> 
> I mean, I guarantee the Romans did anal all the time. I think we've lost touch with much of our sexuality due to western prudish kinda thinking.
> Posted via Mobile Device


A large problem I have with pornography is that I do not believe it represents a mutual pleasurable sexuality. It if represented mutual sexuality it would not be as difficult for me to accept.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

marduk said:


> Except that IQs and education levels are actually increasing in America.
> 
> Albeit slower than they used to.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Education yes


IQ's I dispute.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

One last thing about the mutuality is this:

I think it would be hard for men to see porn as mutual if it represented how women are portrayed in mainstream porn

Where the woman can be hot but its acceptable if she is also average looking while the man is always an Adonis. The man has had surgically enhanced genitalia. 90% of the shot is on various aspects of his body while the woman only has her vagina exposed. The man doesn't ever reach climax but the woman does. How he expresses his pleasure appears artificial to men watching. He never asks for something pleasing for himself but only does acts which are pleasing to the woman even if it appears uncomfortable. 

Its divorced from true male sexuality.

And it would seem like a slap in the face if a woman was to say that it increases mutual satisfaction.

Then have that image plastered everywhere


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

lifeistooshort said:


> Education yes
> 
> 
> IQ's I dispute.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

good evening
I'm not sure how many people still watch mainstream porn. I tried to create survey here, but it got deleted - probably because the modes saw it as a question of sexual preferences, rather than an attempt to gain insight into this issue.

So, absent data, I'm not convinced that "mainstream" porn still represents the majority of what people watch.


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## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

VirgenTecate said:


> One last thing about the mutuality is this:
> 
> I think it would be hard for men to see porn as mutual if it represented how women are portrayed in mainstream porn
> 
> ...


I think that if there were any significant demand for porn like this, then natural free market forces would make it happen. Are you suggesting that there is some other nefarious reason such porn doesn't already exist?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

marduk said:


> Except that IQs and education levels are actually increasing in America.
> 
> Albeit slower than they used to.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Really? Maybe the wisdom levels are what is rapidly dropping.

More of the population seems uninformed and, quite frankly, belligerently stupid lately.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

tommyr said:


> I think that if there were any significant demand for porn like this, then natural free market forces would make it happen. Are you suggesting that there is some other nefarious reason such porn doesn't already exist?


No nefarious reason.

Most things in this world do not happen for nefarious or angelic reasons. 

We buy Ipads not for nefarious reasons but it may have negative effects in third world countries.

It seems you are reading into my text that I believe in the patriarchy. I do not.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> Really? Maybe the wisdom levels are what is rapidly dropping.
> 
> More of the population seems uninformed and, quite frankly, belligerently stupid lately.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


... said every generation about the one following it since the beginning of time.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Cletus said:


> ... said every generation about the one following it since the beginning of time.


In many cases, accurately.

You have said as much about voters recently.

I believe I am accurate in my assessment of the cognitive abilities of our population.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

richardsharpe said:


> good evening
> I'm not sure how many people still watch mainstream porn. I tried to create survey here, but it got deleted - probably because the modes saw it as a question of sexual preferences, rather than an attempt to gain insight into this issue.
> 
> So, absent data, I'm not convinced that "mainstream" porn still represents the majority of what people watch.


There is a reason it's called mainstream porn. The definition of mainstream is : the ideas, attitudes, or activities that are regarded as normal or conventional; the dominant trend in opinion, fashion, or the arts.

Google: "porn hub's search stats". I can't link it here, because it does go to the website, but it's strictly their website's stats for 2015. It's their Year in review information. 

From their site:



> The world watched a lot of porn this year. It’s kind of almost impossible to fully wrap your mind around just how much exactly, but this infographic breaks it down nicely. In 2015 alone, we streamed 75GB of data a second, which translates to enough porn to fill the storage in around 175 million 16GB iPhones.


Here is an overview: *Note this is only from this specific website. This is their stats and their stats only*

*They streamed 75GB per second. Wow.

*Most popular country to browse them is, you guessed it, the U.S.

*4,392,486,580 hours of porn was watched from their site alone.

*21.2 Billion visits

*American visitors account for about 41% of our overall traffic

*The majority of visits to the site take place between 9 pm and midnight

*Lesbian was the top searched term in 2015 worldwide, followed VERY closely by TEEN which had been number one for quite some time (and is also kind of disturbing).

*Out of the top 20 searches, amateur was not on the list.

*Out of the top gaining searches, amateur was not on the list.

*In the U.S., the top search was for step mom (and son). Of the top 20 in that list, amateur was not on the list. Teen was 4th.

*Of the top gaining searches in the U.S., amateur was not on the list.

*Of the top 10 lists of most other countries around the world amateur came up in Spain (#9), Sweden (#8), and Serbia (#2). No other countries had it in their top 10 lists. 

*Top searched porn star worldwide is shockingly, Kim Kardashian.

*Most viewed category was lesbian, followed by teen.

*24% of their viewers are women.

*Top categories for men and women were: Women - lesbian and Men - Teen

*Average age of person watching is 35.3 years old.

* In the 18-24 and 25-34 groups, searches for ‘teen’ rank higher 

*milf ranked higher in the 35-44 age group

* the 35-44 and 45-54 groups, ‘teen’ ranks much lower, then disappears off of the list in the 55-64 group’s top 10. 

*Out of those age categories, teen doesn't drop off the top 10 list until the 55-64 age group.

* visits from smartphones alone now account for 53% of traffic shares

*Traffic dips by about 39% on Christmas Eve worldwide

*With regards to Easter, international traffic drops by 9%

* In the US, traffic dropped by 25% during the Superbowl and then by 27% on the day of the Mayweather vs. Pacquiao UFC fight



Really, you could probably google any website's stats and find them. You could compile a list of your own data to present, and there is so much to learn. I learned quite a bit in the past 20 mins. :grin2:


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

ConanHub said:


> Really? Maybe the wisdom levels are what is rapidly dropping.
> 
> More of the population seems uninformed and, quite frankly, belligerently stupid lately.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Been watching a lot of Fox News, have we?


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Think it depends on the type of porn, and the couple, maybe?

For many women, at least for me, we are more into literary erotica, than visual porn. I like reading erotica stories, or reading them with my fiance. I like hearing him tell me stories about what he would like to do to me, when we are in a public place, and I have to ''wait for it''.  There is a side of me that is somewhat prudish however lol, and my fiance likes to say things to make me blush in public...things that are sexy. I think that for me, it's hearing sexy things that I like, come out of his mouth, more so than watching porn. 

But there's nothing wrong with watching porn on occasion, if you are into that type of thing.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

marduk said:


> Been watching a lot of Fox News, have we?


No.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

richardsharpe said:


> good evening
> I'm not sure how many people still watch mainstream porn. I tried to create survey here, but it got deleted - probably because the modes saw it as a question of sexual preferences, rather than an attempt to gain insight into this issue.
> 
> So, absent data, I'm not convinced that "mainstream" porn still represents the majority of what people watch.


what distinguishes mainstream porn from other porn?

in other words: what are some examples of 'mainstream porn' and some examples of non-mainstream porn?


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

staarz21 said:


> Lol you ladies crack me up! I would compare his peen to porn stars, except he's already very well endowed. I think that's where part of his "ego" come from. He's had plenty women gloat about his size - me included early on. I don't ever talk about it anymore though.
> 
> I used to dismiss him often because I didn't feel attractive enough to say anything back. I mean, this type of thing has been said about different parts of my body over the past 7 years. I have poked back at him here and there a bit.
> 
> ...



Let's slow down here a bit.
If my wife wanted a john holmes size dildo or wanted me to dress up in a monkey suit to have sex with her, I would. Why? Simply because she asked and I have the ability to do it. My rule is, if it turns you on, ask me. If I can do it, short of inviting another person into our bedroom, I will do my best to accommodate.

The reason your husband said that about your eyebrows is because it turns him on. Same as wearing lingerie, wig, certain makeup, etc.

I have asked my wife to wear black lip stick, black nails, fake tattoos, 6" pumps, etc. etc. She does do this amount of work on special occasions. All it does is make me want her even more. She has BECOME my fantasy. What's wrong with that?

Again, if asked I would do the same for her.

Her fantasy is a well kept man about town. I HATE, HATE, HATE socializing with a passion. However, for her, I do it and it turns her on. I see no problem with it.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
What I consider "mainstream" porn is large(ish) budged porn movies with known actors. They seem to have a very weak plot, that results in a series of extremely predictable sex scenes. The actors are making ridiculous noises. Everything is planned, you can't see, but know of the existence of a crew with cameras, microphones, lights, and probably a story board. Actresses with enormous fake breasts. To me, completely boring. Examples are any of the major producers movies.

Some amateur porn is people filming themselves having sex. The lighting may not be as good, but it is often people who appear to actually be enjoying what they are doing. The actors may be very attractive, but tend to look like real people ("sell your sex tape" series is an example). There is also semi-amateur stuff which is filmed with better quality with a camera man, but still shows people who seem to be enjoying the action. (some of the abby winters stuff for example).







jorgegene said:


> what distinguishes mainstream porn from other porn?
> 
> in other words: what are some examples of 'mainstream porn' and some examples of non-mainstream porn?


----------



## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

marduk said:


> Good porn is one of the joys of life.
> 
> I'm not kidding.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Marduk, 
I am having difficulty finding "good" porn. Can you give me some recommendations? Seriously.


----------



## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

good evening
It is completely in the eye of the beholder.

There are online sites with tons of free movies and search engines (like nudevista). You can search for the sort of thing you want, then quickly flip through movies until you find what you want.






UMP said:


> Marduk,
> I am having difficulty finding "good" porn. Can you give me some recommendations? Seriously.


----------



## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

richardsharpe said:


> good evening
> It is completely in the eye of the beholder.
> 
> There are online sites with tons of free movies and search engines (like nudevista). You can search for the sort of thing you want, then quickly flip through movies until you find what you want.


Yes, but I trust Marduk, I believe he is a porn connoisseur.
I am willing to explore on the experts advice.:grin2:


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

UMP said:


> Let's slow down here a bit.
> If my wife wanted a john holmes size dildo or wanted me to dress up in a monkey suit to have sex with her, I would. Why? Simply because she asked and I have the ability to do it. My rule is, if it turns you on, ask me. If I can do it, short of inviting another person into our bedroom, I will do my best to accommodate.
> 
> The reason your husband said that about your eyebrows is because it turns him on. Same as wearing lingerie, wig, certain makeup, etc.
> ...


So, initially I wrote a long response. After reading over it, I felt it was way too personal to post. 

No, I will not change my eyebrows for him. You don't understand. You wouldn't understand, even if I sat here and explained it all in a very personal way. 

I've always listened to him and done what he's asked. I've always looked for new ways to please him. I've mentioned before that I've had 3 surgeries. 

This man will NEVER be satisfied and he will always want more. I get that you think that sounds normal, but there is a point when it does become too much and the W might want to be wanted for just who she is, not the role she can play constantly. 

I don't like having to pretend I'm someone I'm not everyday to try and please him. I will play and dress up for sure. But it's not supposed to be an every single day/night thing. My H turns it into that. I want him to want me for me sometimes. 

Someone who is constantly looking for new and different (even with their W/H) is sending off the message that he/she isn't happy with what they have. If it's occasional (maybe every two times or something), it's fine. But if it's constant (every single time you have sex or everyday you wake up), after a while, it starts to hurt and it makes you feel like you aren't good enough and that's why he's always wanting you to change something about you.

I'm talking about changing appearance, not playing with toys or even wearing lingerie. I am talking about changing my face, my boobs, my stomach...I would dress up in lingerie every night...most of it makes me feel really sexy, but I am not going to throw a wig on every time. I won't talk with an accent, I won't change my damn eyebrows....those things are meant to be occasional. That way I don't feel like he always wants me to be someone I'm not, AND so he doesn't get too bored with those things (because he has before, go figure). 


I'm sorry, but I must bow out of this topic now. It takes just about all I have to not trigger and be hurt by the things my H has done. It hurts even more when people just don't think it could be an issue. That I'm "prudish" or "boring". There is no support for people like me. There is always just people saying that I should do more....

No, I will not do more. It's his turn now. I refuse to continue to change my daily appearances for him, just so he can be turned on. Sounds mean, but he's never gone to the same lengths that I have. So, I really don't care anymore if he's "satisfied" or not. In the end, he will just be bored with me the next day anyway.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

staarz21 said:


> So, initially I wrote a long response. After reading over it, I felt it was way too personal to post.
> 
> No, I will not change my eyebrows for him. You don't understand. You wouldn't understand, even if I sat here and explained it all in a very personal way.
> 
> ...


I DO understand what you are saying and I do agree. In the last 4 years the only real reason I think that my wife has been willing to do these things for me OCCASIONALY is because I have changed for her as well.

What my wife finds attractive is me when we dated. A polite, attractive conversationalist that she likes to show off to her friends. I absolutely ABHOR doing this. I HATE socializing, but that's what she likes.
I do it for her and in a way because she likes it so much and I see that smile on her face, it makes me keep going and becomes much less of a burden for me.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

staarz21 said:


> I'm sorry, but I must bow out of this topic now. It takes just about all I have to not trigger and be hurt by the things my H has done. It hurts even more when people just don't think it could be an issue. That I'm "prudish" or "boring". There is no support for people like me. There is always just people saying that I should do more....
> 
> No, I will not do more. It's his turn now. I refuse to continue to change my daily appearances for him, just so he can be turned on. Sounds mean, but he's never gone to the same lengths that I have. So, I really don't care anymore if he's "satisfied" or not. In the end, he will just be bored with me the next day anyway.


 @UMP porn generally is so overstimulating that it causes the main focus of stimulation to become "novelty." When porn induces this quality in a man's sexuality to a point where he can no longer be satisfied with what he has, the above is the product of that.

A woman that feels that she will never be enough and that no one will love her just the way she is. 

Personally I am very impressed that @starrz221 has the instinct to know that she should be loved just the way she is! Good for her!

Badsanta


----------



## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

badsanta said:


> @UMP porn generally is so overstimulating that it causes the main focus of stimulation to become "novelty." When porn induces this quality in a man's sexuality to a point where he can no longer be satisfied with what he has, the above is the product of that.
> 
> A woman that feels that she will never be enough and that no one will love her just the way she is.
> 
> ...


IMO just because someone puts on a wig for their significant other it does not change who they are.
I love my wife, but after 24 years of marriage, variety sure as hell helps in the sex department.
I am certain there are "degrees" of this and having to change your entire appearance every single time does not seem healthy to me either.

I love Chinese food, but if I ate at the same restaurant every single day, I would get sick of it. Just trying to change the menu every now and again. Hot sauce is welcome.


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

UMP said:


> IMO just because someone puts on a wig for their significant other it does not change who they are.
> I love my wife, but after 24 years of marriage, variety sure as hell helps in the sex department.
> I am certain there are "degrees" of this and having to change your entire appearance every single time does not seem healthy to me either.
> 
> I love Chinese food, but if I ate at the same restaurant every single day, I would get sick of it. Just trying to change the menu every now and again. Hot sauce is welcome.


But is sex just about the stimulation or is it also about the connection?

Some times we want to be stimulated and some times we want to feel connected.

In staarz21's post sex has just become about stimulation in their marriage. If sex was just about how much I could satisfy the need of my spouse and stimulate him, I wouldn't want to do it anymore. I need connection as well.

Porn is about stimulation. He wants his wife to act the same way. But she is his life partner, not just his stimulant.

After discussing this over with @marduk, I can honestly say that I have a more positive and open opinion about porn, but staarz21's situation is just a very negative situation.


----------



## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I don't think there is an easy way to define what sort of requests are reasonable, and what are not. It seems "obvious" but I can't think of rules. 

I feel OK asking my wife to wear lingerie. I don't think I should feel bad asking her to wear a wig once in a while, but all the time would seem wrong. I do not think it would be OK for me to ask for any sort of plastic surgery (nor would I ever want her to do that).

Similarly I think it is OK for me to wear the sort of clothes she finds attractive - wear a beard since she likes that etc. 

I completely understand and agree that in your case your husband is being completely unreasonable. 

Maybe the difference is between temporary things done for occasional entertainment, and permanent changes or things that indicate that someone wants their partner to be different in a fundamental way. 

If my wife wanted me to dress as a construction worker to satisfy her fantasies, I'd be happy to. If she wanted me to always dress and act like a construction worker, I would not agree because that is not who I am. 

Your post has made me think about what is and isn't OK to ask, and I find that its not at all simple. 





staarz21 said:


> So, initially I wrote a long response. After reading over it, I felt it was way too personal to post.
> 
> No, I will not change my eyebrows for him. You don't understand. You wouldn't understand, even if I sat here and explained it all in a very personal way.
> 
> ...


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

UMP said:


> I love Chinese food, but if I ate at the same restaurant every single day, I would get sick of it. Just trying to change the menu every now and again. Hot sauce is welcome.


Generally speaking I imagine women prefer to serve a sexual menu like most successful Chinese restaurants have:

95% of the menu never changes!
50% of meals ordered are always "Sweet and sour chicken!"
5% of the menu is reserved for the "Special of the month!"

Having said that, I have seen Chinese restaurants serve stuff like pizza, cheeseburgers, and french fries. A wise husband would never ask for those things. He should instead ask if he can "help" make the dumplings and he would probably learn to seriously appreciate what he already has!!!!!!!!!!










Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

VirgenTecate said:


> But is sex just about the stimulation or is it also about the connection?


That's really a great question. For me, it's both. I assume it's the same for my wife.
However, contrary to popular belief, I as a man need more stimulation than I did when I was younger. The porn "warms" me up, so to speak, the way a back rub warms up my wife.

If there were no "connection", than the sex would be meaningless to me, or at least very shallow and in the long run unsustainable.
If that is "Staarz21" situation, I agree with her 100%.

My sexual "requests" for my wife come from a foundation of love and respect. All these fantasies and kinks are just for fun, although I believe honest enthusiasm for sex is a must. There is nothing more off putting than seeing your wife just lay there in complete boredom.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

VirgenTecate said:


> But is sex just about the stimulation or is it also about the connection?





UMP said:


> That's really a great question. For me, it's both. I assume it's the same for my wife.
> However, contrary to popular belief, I as a man need more stimulation than I did when I was younger.


OK, this is what my wife asks...



MRS BADSANTA said:


> Do you use porn because the extra stimulation helps you feel more of a connection with your wife. OR do you have such a strong connection with your wife that it creates your need for porn and more stimulation in order to enjoy her.


Careful with that, I'm pretty sure it is a trick question, but I can not figure it out how and why it is a trick question just yet!

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

badsanta said:


> OK, this is what my wife asks...
> 
> Do you use porn because the extra stimulation helps you feel more of a connection with your wife. OR do you have such a strong connection with your wife that it creates your need for porn and more stimulation in order to enjoy her.
> 
> ...


This would be my answer at this stage in my life:

"honey, I don't "need" porn. I need porn the same way I need a Dodge 707 horsepower Challenger SRT Hellcat. It's not necessary but if you can have it, it could be a hell of a lot of fun! Will you come for a "ride" with me?"

Funny thing is, they'll probably come out with an 800hp version next year. Completely unnecessary, yet they build and we buy.


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

UMP said:


> That's really a great question. For me, it's both. I assume it's the same for my wife.
> However, contrary to popular belief, I as a man need more stimulation than I did when I was younger. The porn "warms" me up, so to speak, the way a back rub warms up my wife.
> 
> If there were no "connection", than the sex would be meaningless to me, or at least very shallow and in the long run unsustainable.
> ...


I honestly and absolutely agree with you. I have appreciated all your responses in this thread and from all the men contributing to this thread I think I am beginning to understand the male view, as much of a generalization as I can make, of pornography. 

You know, I think we are also touching on issues of HD and LD between men and women. I think many times we see the off putting behavior that the other one does as malicious when it may be miscommunication or a great misunderstanding about the other's sexual drive. Of course there may also be malicious intentions but I would rather not cover that in the passages below.

In a relationship between a man and a woman who love each other, I think many women do not learn how to communicate their sexual desires and turnoffs and respond to this inability to express to their husband what they want by "starfishing". It isn't malicious but the husband will, quite understandably, take it to be that way. A fight starts up and the inherent problem, the inability for her to communicate her desires and turnoffs will not be solved. 

I also think many men assume that women respond the same to sexual stimulation as them. When they are trying to express their love and desire for their wife their behavior may be off putting to their wives because he's assuming how he views sex is how she views sex. When she doesn't respond the way he expects her to, because that is the way he would, he assumes malicious intent to starfish him to death and she assumes malicious intent from him to just use her as a pin cushion when really the problem is one of misunderstanding.

I think how men and women view porn is similar to this.
@richardsharpe,

I think you did an excellent breakdown at what constitutes a reasonable request. Though it may never be defined 100%, I think you did an excellent job of breaking it down between a passing request and one that fundamentally alters the body or personhood of the partner.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

VirgenTecate said:


> I honestly and absolutely agree with you. I have appreciated all your responses in this thread and from all the men contributing to this thread I think I am beginning to understand the male view, as much of a generalization as I can make, of pornography.
> 
> You know, I think we are also touching on issues of HD and LD between men and women. I think many times we see the off putting behavior that the other one does as malicious when it may be miscommunication or a great misunderstanding about the other's sexual drive. Of course there may also be malicious intentions but I would rather not cover that in the passages below.
> 
> ...


At the same time I am trying to encourage my wife to partake of my devious mind, I am trying to cater to her desires.
Apparently, a daily back rub keeps her in the mood better than anything else I have tried. I am NOT a back rub kind of guy. I essentially declined to give my wife back rubs for 20 years.
Where did that get me? Nowhere. 

I now offer them up on a daily basis. Why? Because I love her and I want her to be in the right frame of mind when we do have sex.
IMO, if you can give a little of what she wants in her currency, you'll be amazed at how much you get back in your own currency!

We are basically both exchanging currency. The trick is to find out which country we both live in.


----------



## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

UMP said:


> This would be my answer at this stage in my life:
> 
> "honey, I don't "need" porn. I need porn the same way I need a Dodge 707 horsepower Challenger SRT Hellcat. It's not necessary but if you can have it, it could be a hell of a lot of fun! Will you come for a "ride" with me?"
> 
> Funny thing is, they'll probably come out with an 800hp version next year. Completely unnecessary, yet they build and we buy.


But @UMP you realize in your case that a "707 horsepower Challenger SRT Hellcat" that you can magically have at the touch of a button, is actually a *ANOTHER WOMAN* sexually subjecting herself to your viewing pleasure. 

Would you be willing to produce films of YOU doing the equivalent type of content to please your own wife and countless other women? You know, like having implants put in your testicles to make them super huge while you start instantly twerking to a nonstop orgasm at just the sight of the female equivalent of Ron Jeremy. 










Badsanta


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

badsanta said:


> But @UMP you realize in your case that a "707 horsepower Challenger SRT Hellcat" that you can magically have at the touch of a button, is actually a *ANOTHER WOMAN* sexually subjecting herself to your viewing pleasure.
> 
> Would you be willing to produce films of YOU doing the equivalent type of content to please your own wife and countless other women? You know, like having implants put in your testicles to make them super huge while you start instantly twerking to a nonstop orgasm at just the sight of the female equivalent of Ron Jeremy.
> 
> ...


Badsanta, I think you are describing the female view of porn far better than I could ever have but you did it with so much humor.

I especially like the second paragraph you have. That is also how many women see it. 

This is not to paint either sex with malicious intentions

Edit: Oh my god this picture. I can't


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

UMP said:


> Marduk,
> I am having difficulty finding "good" porn. Can you give me some recommendations? Seriously.


X-art.com. I've read that the majority of their performers are couples, and get to pick their scenes. And when they're not couples, they get to pick the other performers.

Nubilefilms I think follows a similar model. 

They both film in high-def, and there's no plot lines, and the sound quality and production values generally show. They're not all great, but some is very awesome. I know that sounds weird for porn, but it really makes a difference.

Give them a go.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

OliviaG said:


> The Roman sexual model is nothing, if not normal:
> 
> 
> 
> Not something I think we, as a society want to aspire to. At least not 50% of us..


*All* societies have had sexual problems. Ours is no different.

My point about the normalization of mutually pleasurable sexual acts between consenting adults has nothing to do with pederasty or that stuff.

That's like saying they gave us the concept of the Republic, but that's not good because pederasty. 

The thing about history is that we get to pick and choose social models that worked. My point about those guys is that they knew how to party, and if a couple thinks that they're inventing something that they have fun doing together... Chances are they're not. And if it seems kinky and feels like it's socially out of line... At some point in human history it was probably considered kinda normal. Just like how 20 years ago being gay was a huge deal, and now it's very much less so.

And if it's fun and consentual and they're adults, go for it.

Humans have been ****ing each other in very inventive ways for... Well... Since there have been humans. And that's been a very long time.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

VirgenTecate said:


> But is sex just about the stimulation or is it also about the connection?
> 
> Some times we want to be stimulated and some times we want to feel connected.
> 
> ...


Thanks VT. I think the best sex is both stimulation and connection. And to be honest, I think porn that has it's place in your life (meaning -- it's not required, not forced into your sex life, doesn't replace sex with your partner, and is mutually desired) -- can also be connective.

For example, my wife has opened up about a great many things after watching them in porn a few times. I'm not sure that would have happened otherwise. It's kinda hard (if you're paying attention) to hide your bodies response to stimuli... And that response can surprise both of you, and lead to great conversations and great sex as a result. If it's handled appropriately and is respectful. Me, too. There's been times where you're watching something and it dawns on you "huh, I've never thought about that." Even if it stays firmly in the realm of fantasy and is never realized... Knowing it's a turn on can be enlightening.

However, that being said, that's just us. Some people are more open to "does X turn you on" without seeing X happen and then considering it.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

OliviaG said:


> I agree with you that "there's nothing new under the sun". I just don't think that the fact that something happened historically suggests that it's desirable (or undesirable). To me, all it means is that it's been done before.


That's what I was getting at.

Maybe it's just because I'm a guy, but I've had to reassure many women -- my wife among them -- that their fantasies and desires were OK.

Because they have become denormalized or considered immoral or some damn thing.

Take sex toys for an example. An ex had a giant problem with the fact she wanted one. So we'd buy one, use it, she'd like it, and then be horrified and throw it out.

And then we'd buy one, use it, and she'd throw that one out, too.

But you can go into museums and see dildos that are thousands of years old. Why is having one that has clearly been part of human sexuality for millennia a giant big deal in our modern society?


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## VirgenTecate (Jan 4, 2016)

marduk said:


> Thanks VT. I think the best sex is both stimulation and connection. And to be honest, I think porn that has it's place in your life (meaning -- it's not required, not forced into your sex life, doesn't replace sex with your partner, and is mutually desired) -- can also be connective.
> 
> For example, my wife has opened up about a great many things after watching them in porn a few times. I'm not sure that would have happened otherwise. It's kinda hard (if you're paying attention) to hide your bodies response to stimuli... And that response can surprise both of you, and lead to great conversations and great sex as a result. If it's handled appropriately and is respectful. Me, too. There's been times where you're watching something and it dawns on you "huh, I've never thought about that." Even if it stays firmly in the realm of fantasy and is never realized... Knowing it's a turn on can be enlightening.
> 
> However, that being said, that's just us. Some people are more open to "does X turn you on" without seeing X happen and then considering it.


I am responding to this post and the last post you made about opening up your ex to sex toys.

I think taking it this way is extremely healthy for relationships. On this forum we hear a lot about porn becoming an unhealthy force between couples. It can make one, meaning myself, biased. Furthermore, the website you suggested showed me that the porn you are sharing is one that I can see women enjoying and not being turned off from. 

You have me convinced as far as I can go in over a few days. Perhaps after letting it settle in my mind I will change. I still have my own differing opinion at the end of the day about porn which I have already discussed with you. However, if treatment and conditions improves for sex workers and porn resembles that of which you have described to me I can see myself feeling at the end of the day that it is a good thing.

Edit: I actually did forget to respond to you about the last post.

I do think many women have dealt with being told that what they desire is bad or wrong. I do see that changing. I am glad to hear that you were sensitive to that and tried to help your ex to let go of the shame. I think an issue for women is that being sexually liberated and loving sex sounds to them like letting strings of men use them. When it can really mean just enjoying it for yourself. You can love sex in a relationship. You can love sex if you have only ever been with one man. I think the it has to be either I hate sex so that means I stay pure or I love sex and I become a pincushion for men because our society is still emerging from Victorian ideals. I myself prize monogamy but I still love sex and have experimented outside of "normal" with my fiance. I don't think it has to be an either or situation.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
some toys, especially vibrators, can dull sensations. How bad that is depends entirely on the person. My wife and I use vibrators as part of our normal lovemaking. As a result she essentially always has an orgasm, but its almost impossible for her to have one now without a vibrator. (she used to be able to, but not always).

Is trading sometimes having an orgasm without a vibrator, for always having one but needing a vibrator a net win? That is up to you. 




OliviaG said:


> snip
> An aside about sex toys: the only downsides that I can see to them are the possibility that they can take away from intimacy with partner (which I think is rare with women - the more we use them, the more sex we want, IME, but probably the opposite would be true for men's toys) and the possibility that they can dull sensation. I haven't been able to figure out yet whether the latter is a real concern or not. I wish I knew, but until I do, I'm wary (exactly parallel to concerns re: not really knowing the effects of regular porn use, so being wary).


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
That is probably a good plan. 

Its to bad your husband doesn't like them. I enjoy pretty much anything that my wife enjoys. I'd only object if she were using them herself while turning me down. 

Non vibrating toys might be OK. I think its just the vibrators (an my wife likes very strong ones) that desensitize. 


OTOH, if you are enjoying what you are doing, that is great, no need to change




OliviaG said:


> Thanks for sharing that Richard. I am able to O without them consistently, so maybe I'd better stay away from them then. I do not want to become dependent on them.
> 
> If things change and Oing during sex becomes an issue, then I wouldn't hesitate. That is, if they didn't turn my husband off. Unfortunately he resents me using them so I am not using them even sporadically, whether I want to or not, at present.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
to make a cross thread point....

That shaming is exactly what I was suggesting you try to avoid with respect to anal sex. 

People should feel free to enjoy what they want. Your husband may not want you to use toys with him (though that is sad), but he shouldn't make you feel bad about wanting to use them yourself.

Toys are great - there are many men (especially as they get older) who cannot stay hard as long as their partners would like - so why not use toys. Quite useful along with oral as well. 

I even got my wife some very large toys in the past to try. She found the novelty quickly wore off and that they were just uncomfortable - that she preferred average sized. 





OliviaG said:


> I am enjoying what we do, the only problem being that we don't do enough of it to satisfy me. This is why I bought the toys.
> 
> I do have one non-vibrating one that I wouldn't mind using still, but to be honest, H basically shamed me for buying them. He immediately regretted what he'd said, apologized profusely, and insisted that we continue to use them, but I just can't now, at least not with him. I know how he really feels and I can't feel good about it. I feel a bit squeamish using them on my own now too, but if desire gets high enough that wears off a little.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

OliviaG said:


> I see what you're saying, but I think that judgements about the merits of particular sexual practices need to be taken on a case-by-case basis. The fact that something's been done for millennia doesn't enter into my thinking about them. Lots of great things have been done for millennia. Lots of heinous things too.
> 
> An aside about sex toys: the only downsides that I can see to them are the possibility that they can take away from intimacy with partner (which I think is rare with women - the more we use them, the more sex we want, IME, but probably the opposite would be true for men's toys) and the possibility that they can dull sensation. I haven't been able to figure out yet whether the latter is a real concern or not. I wish I knew, but until I do, I'm wary (exactly parallel to concerns re: not really knowing the effects of regular porn use, so being wary).


I'll lay my bias on the table. 

I don't put sexuality much in the same realm as I do morality. I do in terms of sexual ethics such as fidelity (which can be defined whatever way you want in a relationship), not involving children, and not doing anything that is harmful or overly risky. 

Basically, once you agree to a sexual relationship, you can negotiate what you want as long as its respectful and consensual in an open and non-judgemental way. I don't judge women for liking lesbian porn and thinking they might be gay, for example. Maybe they just like the visual, or the idea, and that's ok. It doesn't require the Spanish Inquisition. 

Neither does someone's sexual past, to me. But I also value monogamy highly, and approach it more from an ethics of truth and trust than I do from a spiritual angle, for example. 

Now, to the matter at hand - just because it's common over the whole of human history doesn't make it good. In that we agree. 

My point is that it doesn't necessarily make it bad, either. As long as it aligns with your values and you're good with it and consenting adults that aren't disrespecting or deceiving your partner, go for it. 

But I guess what I'm saying is the shame really gets me down. Because there's the potential for so much happiness that gets cut off by it.

Regarding your specific example of sex toys affecting sensitivity, I've had that happen with women, and within a week or so of non-use, we've had it go away.

So the risk/reward ratio is still very favourable. If you look at it from a pretty much hedonistic yet monogamous viewpoint. Which I guess is mostly mine. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

OliviaG said:


> BTW @marduk you had me perusing my local sex shop's porn offerings, just to see if they had anything at all that would not be off-putting to me. I think they might, actually.


I highly recommend that if you're even the teensiest anxious, to arrange for a private shopping experience. 

They close the store and walk you around with a personal assistant who can answer any questions without it being weird. 

You just have to call ahead in many good places. And arrange a time that might be before they regularly open. Many will also do classes and workshops on anything from rope tying to how to use a wi vibe. 

Oh, and find a good place. Female run ones seem to be the best. And, perhaps not oddly, the kinkiest.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kilgoretrout (Feb 2, 2016)

Catherine602 said:


> If you answered him with a similar dis, he would never say anything like that again. Have you ever answered him by comparing him to porn sized penises or actors with banging bodies? ""I'm with you hubby, I wonder what it would be like to have a man who looks like .... ".
> 
> Or "glad you said that, I can share with you now, I wonder what it would be like to have a man with a penis the size of lthose porn guys you like looking at honey. Is there anything you can do with yourself".
> 
> ...


I like the way you think
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

@OliviaG your husbands reaction may very well been a reflect reaction as a result of the male version of Modonna/*****. On another post about annal sex on post 52. A lot of women feel the same about toys. Your husband might at the time felt caught in the crosshairs and viewed your action as a shyt test. Go all in and risk you viewing him as a pig. 

Being a guy has it own problems. Risk saying something is hot ad she kicks you out for being a pig, say nothing be frustrated and at some point she thinks you are boring and splits for a bad boy. 

I've read your personal thread and I was wondering if you ever discussed it with your husband. 

Yes you increase in desire might intimate him at first, but thats why god invented viagra.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

marduk said:


> I highly recommend that if you're even the teensiest anxious, to arrange for a private shopping experience.
> 
> They close the store and walk you around with a personal assistant who can answer any questions without it being weird.
> 
> ...


That's great!
Now if I could just stop Hustler from giving me a great big shopping bag with red flames and HUSTLER written on the side as I walk back to work after my purchase


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

marduk said:


> X-art.com. I've read that the majority of their performers are couples, and get to pick their scenes. And when they're not couples, they get to pick the other performers.
> 
> Nubilefilms I think follows a similar model.
> 
> ...


Great stuff and exactly what I am looking for! I knew you would know. One problem, I live in the middle of nowhere and do not have a good internet connection. I was looking for DVD's of similar quality.
Any ideas ?????

UPDATE: Found the x-art stuff on another website in DVD format.
THANKS AGAIN !!


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

UMP said:


> That's great!
> Now if I could just stop Hustler from giving me a great big shopping bag with red flames and HUSTLER written on the side as I walk back to work after my purchase


Step #1:
Don't go to Hustler.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

UMP said:


> Great stuff and exactly what I am looking for! I knew you would know. One problem, I live in the middle of nowhere and do not have a good internet connection. I was looking for DVD's of similar quality.
> Any ideas ?????
> 
> UPDATE: Found the x-art stuff on another website in DVD format.
> THANKS AGAIN !!


What's this dvd thing that you're talking about?

Wait, that's like an 8 track for old timey low def movies right?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

marduk said:


> What's this dvd thing that you're talking about?
> 
> Wait, that's like an 8 track for old timey low def movies right?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yep, that's it.
I don't even own a smart phone. I refuse. When someone gives me crap about it, I take my phone and throw it across the room as I say "can your phone do this?"


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

OliviaG said:


> Lol..I wouldn't recommend doing that to your dvd player..!


Did you check out X-art.com?
Very nice stuff and I believe it's more female friendly.
Only problem is that EVERYONE is really good looking, like REALLY good looking.
I just ordered 4 of them and will give it a shot.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

OliviaG said:


> I did. I don't know what it is with me. I'm honestly not trying to be difficult for the sake of being difficult (I would forgive you and Marduk for thinking so), but I scrolled through and thought every single one of these looks exactly the same to me - I don't see why they have to make more than one. I thought the whole point of porn was variety! I think if I'd seen one of them only, it would have maybe been interesting, but seeing film after film of the same thing...it just turns me off. Plus, I'm not sure that porn with no storyline at all would work for me.
> 
> OTOH, I get turned off (of shopping) going into warehouse stores like Costco or Ikea too. It's just too much stuff and makes me feel overwhelmed.
> 
> Maybe I should just order one and see what I think.


If you go to adult empire and type in x-art, they have a couple in dvd format that you can preview. The quality is top notch and the "actors" seem normal if not a bit too good looking.

Viewing some sort of porn, by myself, since I was 9 years old, it IS difficult to bring in my wife. It's an obstacle that I had to overcome myself. However, if you can both relax it's quite exciting and has lead to some great passionate sex.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

OliviaG part of me thinks what you are experiencing is Karma, for guys ? Maybe both genders? Welcome to a guys teen years. All horned up and no place to go. Perhaps that is part of the dynamic of opposite sex younger person older person hook ups. 

As to shyt test, he might have at first thought you where testing to see how big a "pig" he was. Fail and he is gone. Now perhaps he is frighten where this new dynamic will take the primary relationship in his life. Going though his mind: what next an open marriage. 

Former President Reagen was a far more complex person then most realize. I read where he continue a letter writing relationship with a former fan club president for decades during which he was remarkable candid. In his sixtes he wrote he and Nancy were still learning accept and enjoy ther own sexuality. 

I wonder if some infidelity is caused by the failure of a person to incorporate the full range of their personality into a single relationship. I guess to put it simply sometimes a person wants to be one thing, sometimes the opposite.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

I am re-reading what I posted and I feel it is poorly written, but it is a start. I will attempt to clarify my thought and re-post at a later date.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

OliviaG said:


> About my thread re: being ultra HD, yes, we've discussed it; I told him exactly what was going on with me. He's doing his best to keep up with me, including using ED meds, but is also (newly) struggling with low T. So it's a challenging situation.


And your opinion to trying X-Art porn...



OliviaG said:


> Maybe I should just order one and see what I think.


If you use porn to help satisfy yourself, it will likely make your husband feel inadequate. If you use porn to try and increase you husbands libido, you may have limited success but in the face of making him feel inadequate. Ironically some men enjoy being made to feel inadequate. 

I'd suggest you should try tantric sex where you teach your husband how to tantalize you beyond your limits. He will enjoy knowing how to please you while at the same time you can take the focus off of him trying to reach orgasms repeatedly. Perhaps the two of you will enjoy reading some of the blogs on this site:

female denial | tantalism.org

More reading about sincere experiences, less watching actors trying and faking it!

Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

I started watching porn at about 11-12. I'm not sure porn is something you get someone into, I'm pretty sure if someone has any desire to watch it they will seek it out themselves.


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## Kilgoretrout (Feb 2, 2016)

TiggyBlue said:


> I started watching porn at about 11-12. I'm not sure porn is something you get someone into, I'm pretty sure if someone has any desire to watch it they will seek it out themselves.


Speaking as a former horny teenage boy - I think finding porn is inevitable 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

TiggyBlue said:


> I started watching porn at about 11-12. I'm not sure porn is something you get someone into, I'm pretty sure if someone has any desire to watch it they will seek it out themselves.


This is the interesting aspect of introducing porn into some marriages. For example, I started viewing porn when I was 9 years old. The first time my wife watched porn was a year before we got married.
The disparity in time watched is huge. The first time I viewed a picture of a vagina, as a little boy, I was horrified:grin2:
However, the more I thought about that picture, the more I wanted one for myself. It was an irresistible urge I had to fill.

Looking at it from my wifes perscpective, seeing porn the first time as an adult, it's much easier to stop that curiosity bug and just shut yourself down, which she did.

Bringing porn to the bedroom in these scenarios is tricky. If I present porn with a hint of guilt or being ashamed on my part, it will shut my wife down in a split second. On the other hand, if I present it with no shame and fully relaxed, it can help her become curious and enjoy the moment with me and enable her to explore her own sexuality.

Easier said than done.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Personally I wouldn't really want to watch porn with my husband, also I doubt my husband would find porn I would enjoy very often.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

TiggyBlue said:


> Personally I wouldn't really want to watch porn with my husband, also I doubt my husband would find porn I would enjoy very often.


That's the other key. Find a compromise for both of you to enjoy.
That is what I am trying to find.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

UMP said:


> Bringing porn to the bedroom in these scenarios is tricky. If I present porn with a hint of guilt or being ashamed on my part, it will shut my wife down in a split second. On the other hand, if I present it with no shame and fully relaxed,* it can help her become curious* and enjoy the moment with me and *enable her to explore her own sexuality.*
> 
> Easier said than done.


 @UMP From the women I know that actually like to watch porn, they tend to be way more picky about choosing something that actually arouses them.

If there were a large department store that featured porn, men would enjoy virtually the entire store (but each man would be limited to his sexual orientation). Women however would only find only a small percentage of the content to be relevant to something they might desire. 

In clothing stores as times have been changing with more and more men becoming metrosexual, you have probably noticed how the mens section in a department store is slowly starting to take up more and more space. With porn as the times have been changing and women have slowly started to become more progressive and confident enough to enjoy porn, you find many sites with a "female friendly" section of content that is slowly starting to grow. This rate of growth is inversely proportional to the growth of the mens clothing section at department stores. 

*As women consume more porn, men are made to feel the need to be more competitive in how we dress and look. Thus the mens section of a department store is becoming more relevant in today's society. *

So if you want your wife to explore her sexuality through porn, be prepared to up your style and give her this:




























...because with overstimulation comes a woman that will start to be very picky about what she wants!

Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Badsanta, 
Never thought of it that way. You're probably right.
I'm ok with this, providing my wife does not actually get another man instead of me.
All that other stuff is just "white noise."


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

OliviaG said:


> Getting back to that X-Art site: there are plenty of images of women performing oral on men and none of men performing oral on women. Explanation? I thought this was female friendly porn?


I am not surprised. It seems like the only time being performed on a woman is emphasized is with Lesbian porn.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

OliviaG said:


> Getting back to that X-Art site: there are plenty of images of women performing oral on men and none of men performing oral on women. Explanation? I thought this was female friendly porn?


I have a couple x-art DVD's being delivered today.
I will peruse and get back with you on that.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

OliviaG said:


> Yeah, there's plenty of girl-on-girl on that site too. Doesn't do anything for me.


Good stuff, well made, got a dvd last night.
There is muff diving involved but not to the extent of sword swallowing :smile2:


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

OliviaG said:


> Yeah, there's plenty of girl-on-girl on that site too. Doesn't do anything for me.


I'd think more men would be a little offended by the implication that they're incapable of pleasing a woman and if she really wants her needs met she needs another woman. 

Maybe a lot of guys haven't thought of it that way but it is what's being implied..... that men are only about getting their rocks off.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> I'd think more men would be a little offended by the implication that they're incapable of pleasing a woman and if she really wants her needs met she needs another woman.
> 
> Maybe a lot of guys haven't thought of it that way but it is what's being implied..... that men are only about getting their rocks off.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't feel that way at all. I look at it as a learning experience.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

OliviaG said:


> @UMP : so, more like 60:40 or 90:10?


More like 70:30. However, that's from only one cd. I am certain every cd is a bit different. The online company that had them in CD form is adultempire. They have every category under the sun.
At your front door in a couple days.

Have zero connection with this co.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I think that the majority of porn is directed towards men, and that some of the female-friendly porn is directed towards women.

As a straight guy, I'd much rather watch a woman performing oral on another woman, than watching a man do so, but of course a straight woman is likely to prefer the opposite

I think it is sad that there seems to be less porn aimed at straight women. It seems like a market opportunity. 

There is some porn (mostly amateur stuff) that features men performing oral on women, but it is fairly uncommon.




OliviaG said:


> Getting back to that X-Art site: there are plenty of images of women performing oral on men and none of men performing oral on women. Explanation? I thought this was female friendly porn?


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

UMP said:


> I have a couple x-art DVD's being delivered today.
> I will peruse and get back with you on that.


PassionHD usually has closer to a 50/50 split as far as oral goes and it's usually man on women. The preview clips usually don't emphasize this though. 

If anyone knows of something with more man on women oral and without the usual ending "money shot" on her face, my wife would be interested!


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
Viewed that way all porn has a problem: why watch another man pleasing a woman.

For me it is much simpler. Sex: fun. Women's faces: pretty. The combination is great. 




lifeistooshort said:


> I'd think more men would be a little offended by the implication that they're incapable of pleasing a woman and if she really wants her needs met she needs another woman.
> 
> Maybe a lot of guys haven't thought of it that way but it is what's being implied..... that men are only about getting their rocks off.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lionelhutz (Feb 2, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> I'd think more men would be a little offended by the implication that they're incapable of pleasing a woman and if she really wants her needs met she needs another woman.
> 
> Maybe a lot of guys haven't thought of it that way but it is what's being implied..... that men are only about getting their rocks off.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


But I think there is often a problem with an "porn as literature" interpretation. In other words that there is any meaningful implication apart from escapism and fantasy visuals.

I've never been into girl on girl stuff but then again, I don't think the appeal is anymore complicated than pretty girl having sex times 2 

Maybe one of the reasons is I have been friends with real life lesbians who liked to talk about sex. Interesting note, some of them liked porn or play involving male images or at least their penises. Again, I'm not sure there is any consistent larger meaning or interpretation that applies apart from individual preference. Same thing with dominance or submission in porn. I don't think you get to automatically jump to any larger conclusions about those preferences to ideas about real world sexual politics.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Lionelhutz said:


> But I think there is often a problem with an "porn as literature" interpretation. In other words that there is any meaningful implication apart from escapism and fantasy visuals.


You don't see people writing graduate theses on why women love chocolate, but some folks just can't accept that explanation for porn.

Sometimes, it really doesn't have implications for global warming, world peace, or even the love and desire of a husband for his spouse. You can analyze something to death and imbue it with all manner of symbolism and meaning that is 98% projection when the reality is much, much simpler than that.


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