# A Real Puzzle: Hoping Some Females Can Shed Light on my Dilemma



## maiplace (Mar 13, 2014)

I'm not married (yet), but have been in a wonderful relationship with a woman who is a few years my senior for 2 years now. I've been a graduate student the past several years and now that I've secured my post-school full time employment, my girlfriend and I are moving in together with the hopes of being on the fast path to engagement and then marriage. We're both in our 30s. The relationship is fantastic, save one thing: the intimacy. I'm really hoping some posters (esp. the ladies on here) can help shed light and/or speculate on my situation. I'm at my wits end. In short, my girlfriend has not been interested in sex for roughly 1 year. Typical story, right? Not so fast, I'd ask you to bear with me in explaining a bit of background.

Here's the short story from how we went to a great sex life to where we are now. First 8 months of rel. were on fire. Sex was tremendous. This is typical (obviously) I read the postings here. About a year into the relationship, she called me out for poor behavior on my part. Long story short, I used to "pick on" people I dated too much (i.e., weight, appearance). Even despite the fact that she's not overweight and is quite attractive, unfortunately, I was not a very kind person always wanting her to do X or Y appearance wise. We almost broke up over it. I do know it caused her to feel less attractive about herself. I can add more details, but I'll leave it at that for now.

In any event, after we reconciled and I changed my behavior (which I did, in earnest), it was a while getting back in the saddle sexually. At first, I accepted this as normal (she'd been made to feel unattractive after all). She'd also been under a lot of stress at work for the past year and she claims that has also affected her libido. But, literally it never bounced back. Yes we have sex (now and again but not passionate) but she hasn't had an orgasm in a year now and claims very weak desire at all! 

I don't know what to do. We do really love each other. She has told me she will go to couples therapy with me, but I'm scared her libido will never come back. Frankly, I do blame myself. I know that you can really run a woman's confidence down to the point she no longer is able to see herself as sexy, but I'm truly stumped here. She claims she wants to have a libido and wants to have great sex with me, but it just isn't there.

What do you think could be going on? Is there any hope that with therapy she could regain her libido? I'm asking the ladies here to maybe help me understand. As a man, I couldn't even understand the concept of going a year without thinking sexually or feeling sexual when I see a glimpse of an attractive woman. Is it really possible that she hasn't felt sexual (toward me AND any guy out there -- which is what she says) for this long? 

Any advice would be so much appreciated.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Dude! Run!!!!!! What you are witnessing is her absolute Sunday-go-to-meeting best. This is as good as sex is ever going to be with her. The trap hasn't even sprung and she's playing funny with sex and giving you a variety of excuses. None of them are actually going to honestly inform you that they aren't into sex or not into you until after the hook has been set. Don't waste the next 60 years trying to figure out why she's a sexless zombie. She can be a great pen pal or checkers partner. This isn't wife material, at least not for you.


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## Belle_Saint (Mar 10, 2014)

I would go to therapy, I know I probably wouldn't recover without it because I would hold on to the comments you made. Even though you tell her nice things now, if I were her, I'd always wonder if you were being truthful or if you were just saying nice things but thinking nasty comments in order to have sex.

I don't think I could go a year without an orgasm.


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## Belle_Saint (Mar 10, 2014)

unbelievable said:


> Dude! Run!!!!!! What you are witnessing is her absolute Sunday-go-to-meeting best. This is as good as sex is ever going to be with her. The trap hasn't even sprung and she's playing funny with sex and giving you a variety of excuses. None of them are actually going to honestly inform you that they aren't into sex or not into you until after the hook has been set. Don't waste the next 60 years trying to figure out why she's a sexless zombie. She can be a great pen pal or checkers partner. This isn't wife material, at least not for you.


ouch...harsh

I do agree that if she can't get with you on the sex issues then you should probably run. Seeing my husband upset about our sex lives makes me feel like he would rather be with someone else. 

If you don't agree on EVERYTHING going in to marriage, it's not going to change after you're married.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Love is a verb.

Does she love you?

The answer to that question is NO, becuase if she loved you she would be having sex with you.

A relationship needs 2 people to actively love each other to function.

Your relationship is not functioning. And it would be a really immoral to marry and have children within a non functioning marital relationship.

She is telling you through her lack of sexual attraction to you that this is not the relationship that she wants in her life. Her words should not belie her actions.

To net it out, the purpose of pre-marital relationships is to determine if you are a match with your prospective spouse. What you are saying in your post is that you and this lady are NOT A MATCH. So don't make the mistake of attempting to live like this forever. A person who is a better match for you will lead to a way better more fulfilling life.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Belle_Saint said:


> ouch...harsh
> 
> I do agree that if she can't get with you on the sex issues then you should probably run. Seeing my husband upset about our sex lives makes me feel like he would rather be with someone else.
> 
> If you don't agree on EVERYTHING going in to marriage, it's not going to change after you're married.


Yup, this is how it starts.

You may have everything else going for you, partner-wise, but the need for her to be intimate with you is gone. It's not necessarily gone for good, but it's been a year.. so...

Judging from the little information you provided, it seems as though you did this to yourself. Not intentionally, of course, but nonetheless.

Regardless, that feeling she had for you is now gone. It can come back, but don't get married until it does.

I'd be leery, anyway. If it went away that easily, it can do it again a year or two, or five, into the marriage.

I'm going to be blunt here, so take it with a grain of salt. I'm assuming she's in her late 30's (as you said she's a few years older than you, and you're both in your 30's). You both have, presumably, been around the block in terms of relationships, therefore it's logical to assume that both, or one of you, is more open to a relationship that is not perfect.

I'm thinking that if you guys were in your 20's, she'd have dumped your behind when the issues with how you expect her, and other women, to dress or whatever came up. When you're older and single, generally speaking, you're more inclined to "make things work" with any prospective partner, and more willing to accept that your partner won't offer you everything you need. Although this can be a positive thing, it can also be a detriment.

I'm not saying she's desperate - don't take it like that. What I'm saying is that, on the surface, it appears as though she's more willing to accept a partner that she may not have accepted 10 or 15 years ago.

Regardless, whatever perceived damage you did back then should have been remedied by now - by her. If you earnestly made the changes that she called you out on, and she's still not able to be intimate with you, it's now on her. If you were expected to make an effort to change, then she is as well.

Counselling may help, if she's into it, but you now know that she's able to turn it off on a moment's notice, and keep it off for long periods of time. To not expect this to happen again later on down the road would be foolish, and you'll wind up on TAM again, with all of us who have lived, or are living, in the "no intimacy" zone.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Let's analyze this for just a second. Does she know you are unhappy with the frequency of sex? Yes, and she's known at least 16 months. She hasn't run to see a counselor or a doc (at least not that you've mentioned). Her response was to blame her lack of interest on you. Her body doesn't do what she tells it to do. Her job stress or your teasing determines what her body does. Later, it will be kids, the price of milk, medications, rotation of the earth, you do too much, you don't do enough, etc. You can play this game (and you will) until you are 70. Doesn't your body do what you tell it? Whether the stars are aligned properly or not, you go to work or school. A commitment implies that someone is actually capable of doing that which they promise. A commitment from someone who doesn't control their own body is just a useless and pointless phrase. If the lack of sex was a problem for her, she would have spent the last 16 months fixing it. She's your sexual partner but she's got you blaming yourself because she doesn't function like a sexual partner. Does that even make sense? Once hitched, she will have reasonable expectations of you and they will probably involve your paycheck. Whether you feel the warm breeze of powder sugar being blown up your backside or not every day, your body will be expected to produce every day. If there are kids in your future, they will have to be fed every day whether you have a great body image and regardless of where your self-esteem is on any particular day. Partners do what is required or what is best for the partnership. Drama Queens do as they please.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Well, it could be the resentment or loss of confidence from the things you said earlier in the relationship.

Or it could be that this is her sexual baseline. 

Or it could be a combination of the two.

It seems around these parts we see many stories of fantastic sex somehow dying overnight, never to return. 

The thing I find puzzling is that women are generally more emotional and it seems you would be seeing the passionate sex coming and going if this was emotionally based. 

The fact that she isn't even masturbating (I'm assuming your statement of no orgasm in a year included that) would suggest more of a hormonal issue. OR the fact that she has a very low sex drive.

I would try the counseling first - there's really nothing to lose there.

Do not get engaged DO NOT unless this situation gets resolved. In fact I would not even move in together because if you end up breaking up that is going to make it very difficult. We're not continuing down our path until this gets somehow resolved would provide a catalyst to find some resolution. 

The problem is - if this has happened once it's likely to happen again at some point, physical or emotional in nature. Marriage is a long road. If this has been caused on an emotional level there's no need to kid yourself - something like this is going to happen again because there are all kinds of valleys and stressors in a lifetime of marriage. 

Proceed with caution.

Editing to add - since coming to this board I have realized that having a lower sex drive it not really under a persons control. It is the way they are and it is not wrong to be that way. However - a person with a lower sex drive and a person with a higher sex drive - together - is going to cause an issue 100% of the time. I think when we are younger we can't fully grasp that sex drive isn't changeable. A person trying to be higher drive for their partner - a person trying to be lower drive for their partner is going to be a stressor. 

Can it work - of course it can - but it's going to take a lot of communication and compromise on both people's part. You need both people on board to communicate and compromise. Often what I see here is only one partner is concerned while the other is happy and doesn't see it as a point of contention.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

maiplace said:


> About a year into the relationship, she called me out for poor behavior on my part. Long story short, I used to "pick on" people I dated too much (i.e., weight, appearance). Even despite the fact that she's not overweight and is quite attractive, unfortunately, I was not a very kind person always wanting her to do X or Y appearance wise. We almost broke up over it. I do know it caused her to feel less attractive about herself. I can add more details, but I'll leave it at that for now.
> 
> She has told me she will go to couples therapy with me, but I'm scared her libido will never come back. *Frankly, I do blame myself. I know that you can really run a woman's confidence down to the point she no longer is able to see herself as sexy,*


Is there more to this, about things you have done/said? Or is this the most of it? 

I will tell you point blank,t hat as a woman, if you feel your partner does not respect you and makes you feel bad, loving feelings start to go away and what replaces them is resentment.

NOTHING kills in the libido/sex drive faster than resentment for a woman. Women need to feel emotionally close to their partner in order to have good sex/bountiful sex in a long-term relationship.

I think it's GREAT that she wants to go to couples counselling so definitely do that. Apologize to her sincerely for what you have done. 

This will have to be a joint effort of communicating, listening to eachothers' needs, righting your wrongs and making a plan to not repeat bad behavior.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Belle_Saint said:


> I would go to therapy, I know *I probably wouldn't recover without it because I would hold on to the comments you made.* Even though you tell her nice things now, if I were her, I'd always wonder if you were being truthful or if you were just saying nice things but thinking nasty comments in order to have sex.


This will be the biggest hurdle.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Love is a choice. It isn't a disease you catch. Decent adults worth partnering with don't stop behaving in loving ways just because they happen to feel up, down, or sideways. If there is a problem, they are eager to fix it. They don't let their partner twist for a year and a half while they make excuses. You don't feed kids when you feel hunger. You don't pay bills when you feel particularly generous. If she has a job, she does what needs to be done at work. She doesn't lay out for 16 months and blame her boss. If you are considering marrying this woman, shouldn't you be her highest priority instead of her lowest? If she can't figure out how to take care of business on days she doesn't quite feel like it, do you really want her being primary care-giver to your children?


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## maiplace (Mar 13, 2014)

unbelievable said:


> Dude! Run!!!!!! What you are witnessing is her absolute Sunday-go-to-meeting best. This is as good as sex is ever going to be with her. The trap hasn't even sprung and she's playing funny with sex and giving you a variety of excuses. None of them are actually going to honestly inform you that they aren't into sex or not into you until after the hook has been set. Don't waste the next 60 years trying to figure out why she's a sexless zombie. She can be a great pen pal or checkers partner. This isn't wife material, at least not for you.


In most cases, I might be inclined to agree with you. However, she's financially secure. I'm the low earner. Like 10-1. She also doesn't particularly want children. What motivation would she have to "hook me"?


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## maiplace (Mar 13, 2014)

OP Here... a few additional details/responses (thanks for the replies so far):

1. She has no reason to "hook me" folks. She's financially set for the rest of her life. Not even sure she wants kids. When I say she isn't LD then, what I mean is that she'd have no reason to fake being HD for a year, then go LD later, UNLESS something happened out of her control (i.e., I hurt her and it turned off, or something hormonal which she's had checked).

2. Someone asked more about what I did to hurt her. Frankly, she spoiled me that first year we dated. Like I said, I'm a student and she's a very high earner. She took me on a few vacations, treated me like a king (both sexually and otherwise) and I (being a stupid young immature dude), thought I might be able to "squeeze more" of what I wanted? Maybe she could lose that last 10 pounds that would take her from an 8 to a 10. Maybe she could wear shorts that were 2 inches shorter (but innapropriate for someone her age). I was dumb. I had the world on a string and I began doing subtle things like pinching her and saying "oh I'm just playing with you," and/or getting caught gawking at girls in outfits I liked hoping she'd notice and capitulate to wear them. In short, I was being a brat. I wasn't a total d-bag in every sense of the rel, but I was in this one. And it hurt her. 

Whether I agree with your posts or not, I appreciate them and continue to welcome them. Also if folks don't mind indicating their gender while posting, that'd help!







Jellybeans said:


> Is there more to this, about things you have done/said? Or is this the most of it?
> 
> I will tell you point blank,t hat as a woman, if you feel your partner does not respect you and makes you feel bad, loving feelings start to go away and what replaces them is resentment.
> 
> ...


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

How much time has passed since you glorious d bag days? 

You said she can't even orgasm but she wants to....that leads me to think this may be both hormonal -is she on BC pills? And unresolved resentment. 

Could also be thyroid, is she fatigued often?

Women don't usually have one single issue in a sexual dysfunction. You lost her trust during your d bag days and she might also have a hormonal imbalance from low thyroid or BC pills.

Multimodal approach: go to doc for a full work up on causes of libido death then off the therapy.

But if this doesn't improve, don't get married. No therapy will work unless the person work the therapy.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

maiplace said:


> Also if folks don't mind indicating their gender while posting, that'd help!


I am a female. And I have been in a similar situation as your girlfriend before. Eventually I did not want anything to do with the guy because I got tired of being in that dynamic. So I left. Oh and definitely, zero desire for sex with him after that.

My advice is simple: really really acknowledge what you have done to her in the past and apologize, genuinely, from the heart. If you love her, you will show her through actions and your behavior that you are not going to do those bad things/say mean things to her. 

Go to couples counselling. She also needs to do her part and actively seek out sleeping with you and building a good sex life.

Emotions are the glue. If those are gone for her,t hen I hate to say, but there may be no going back. BUT if you both want it and work at it, there will be a way. Be k ind to one another. Love, trust, communicate.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Friend you got lucky. What you got was a preview of your upcoming wedding and bliss with your future wife. 

Hoping that her libido comes back reminds me of the time that may dog ran away when I was a kid and I did the same thing. I hoped he would come back.............................he didn't.

You better think about it real good before you decide to spend the rest of your life with her.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Love how the men completely bypass OP's douche baggery days.


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## maiplace (Mar 13, 2014)

Thanks for your reply.

My poor treatment of her occurred about 4-5 months into the relationship and continued (mostly unchallenged and bottled up in her) until things came to a head last February (2013). 

In the aftermath of that, we went on a reconciliation getaway together and when we went to have sex, she basically started crying and said she wasn't ready. Since then, I've heard a somewhat varied number of responses on why she isn't "feeling it" that have ranged from body image (she says she doesn't feel sexy... fyi while it's true she's gained a little weight it's clear now that I don't care and it's not that much weight). She's also been under a ton of stress from work. She's a small business owner and though she's making a lot more money than I could dream of, the past year has been rough for small b's in this economy. 

She began the pills about 1 month into our rel (and came off them to see if they were a culprit about 3 months ago). She also got checked for thyroid and obgyn said her hormone levels were normal. frankly, obgyn and her personal therapist (she has a solo one for non-related reasons) keep focusing on the stress in her life and saying that waxing and waning libido for women is normal. frankly i don't think they have a clue how extensive hers is and when she wants to she can easily lean on them telling her this to justify her lack of a drive.

But then on other occassions she knows she should have one and wants one but doesn't understand why she doesnt. She will have sex with me, but she isn't into it. She says it's a bit uncomfy (we've tried lube), and she gets "nervous." Remember she was never uninhibited before. She'd come home at work for nooners mid-week during work hours. Now she just doesn't feel sexual or see herself as sexy. And while she says she wants to regain that side of herself, I can't understand (as other posters have pointed out) why she isn't making it priority number one. Wouldn't the rational options be:

1. She hates this happening to her so she seeks sex therapy w reckless abandon and makes it a priority
2. She doesn't care too much so she leaves me because i'm pesky and she can easily take care of herself
3. She isn't attracted to me but she's still sexual. again rationally she'd leave me and find another dude. She may be mid 30s, but she's highly eligible and is both rich and very attractive

I don't get it. I take her at her word, she does love me, but she's either scared and/or confused about why she's "off" and things just spiraled since our "blow up" a year ago to the point she's fallen off the sexual bike and forgotten how to ride it.:scratchhead:



Anon Pink said:


> How much time has passed since you glorious d bag days?
> 
> You said she can't even orgasm but she wants to....that leads me to think this may be both hormonal -is she on BC pills? And unresolved resentment.
> 
> ...


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> Love how the men completely bypass OP's douche baggery days.



:iagree: 

It's absolutely definitely playing a part in what is going on w/ them now. No doubt about it.

If things don't improve, consider moving on. She will need to learn to put her foot down when someone mistreats her in the future and you will need to not act this way to future partners. 

Communication is the key.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Could be that your words to her about her weight and body did a number on her and now she doesn't feel comfortable being naked/having sex with you.


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## maiplace (Mar 13, 2014)

Jellybeans said:


> Could be that your words to her about her weight and body did a number on her and now she doesn't feel comfortable being naked/having sex with you.


A year later? I've been nothing but a great guy to her since then and have affirmed her every step of the way. I guess some things are not fixable, but I wouldn't know how a therapist would fix this if me changing and being a different guy for the past year hasn't done it.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

A bell once rung cannot be unrung.

Dude, women just don't work that way. We beat ourselves up so damn much that if a partner joins in...think hand prints in front that Chinese theater in Hollywood...

Having said that...maybe you should ask to attend one of her therapy sessions with her. So you can hear the therapists suggestions on how best to overcome this.

Finally, it may not be workable. She may never be able to trust your word because of your less then stellar days. That is a possibility to contemplate and you both need to openly discuss this.

If she can't get back to the point of open and loving sex, then the damage done can't be fixed and you both would be better off with someone else.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

If it's resentment and low self esteem on her side that is causing the problem counseling could definitely help her work through these feelings. 

I think she should go to the doctor as well as this could be a chemical imbalance. 

Does she say why the change occurred?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

maiplace said:


> A year later?


Absolutely. The ex I was referencing, I never got the full love I had for him back because the resentment had painted most of the good feelings I had for him over. He tried to get back with me, several times, and I tried, too, but it was gone for me. Never to return. 

SOmetimes the damage is done already. Like anon said, Sometimes you can't unring a bell.

I still say try the therapy out and see what happens. Both have to want it though.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Who's fault it is and analysis of the cause are basically irrelevant. The result is obvious. Marry her and you'll suffer sexual distinction for decades. Yes it's probably all because she's still pissed about how you were before, but as you can see, fixing yourself hasn't changed anything.


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## maiplace (Mar 13, 2014)

MissScarlett said:


> If it's resentment and low self esteem on her side that is causing the problem counseling could definitely help her work through these feelings.
> 
> I think she should go to the doctor as well as this could be a chemical imbalance.
> 
> Does she say why the change occurred?


She says she doesn't know. She's never taken the stance that it has to be a result of X or Y. Even in regard to my having treated her poorly. Yes, she acknowledges that it bothered her at the time, but sometimes she's not even *certain* that it, in and of itself, is the culprit today.

She's just as much at a loss for why she's changed as I am. On the table have been:

*BC pill (she went off it 3 months ago)
*Hyperthyroid issue (she got checked for this)
*Stress from her business (I have trouble buying this one because she's always had stress from it since day 1)
*Declining self image (esp. given my past behavior)
*Normal waxing and waning of libido "women are diff routine"

All 5 of those reasons, in isolation, don't seem to make sense. But what I want people to understand is that unlike a lot of traditional scenarios what makes this a puzzle is that during the course of this no libido reign for the past year, she's continued to absolutely spoil me in every other aspect of the relationship. vacations, etc, bought a larger place to make us moving in together easier, you name it. she doesn't need me and if she isn't into me, there'd be a lot of guys who'd be happy to be in a relationship with her. that's the thing I don't get. i understand bait and switch. that makes sense if the guy is a lawyer making 250k and some woman wants to turn from pornstar into convent nun who was "never into him" simply to hook him (though who knows how widespread that dynamic really is). point is, this doesn't apply to our situation. she's into the relationship, but she can't figure out why she isn't horny. we've ruled out a lot of the prime culprits. my ONLY complaint w her (because I don't blame her) is that i'd like to see her prioritize figuring out an answer more. frankly, since she knows our rel won't work longterm without fixing this, i can't understand why she hasn't made it more of a priority or simply cut bait. she's incredibly decisive in general as a person...


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

She thinks you're not going anywhere because of the money. This is a very bad scenario for you. You making very little and being her dependent. That's a libido killer for women. They're not attracted to dependent men. Remember when you were an ass and more likely to leave she was treating you like a King. Now you're a beta and she can't figure out why she's not into you.


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## maiplace (Mar 13, 2014)

WorkingOnMe said:


> She thinks you're not going anywhere because of the money. This is a very bad scenario for you. You making very little and being her dependent. That's a libido killer for women. They're not attracted to dependent men. Remember when you were an ass and more likely to leave she was treating you like a King. Now you're a beta and she can't figure out why she's not into you.


Close, but I don't think this works either. I'm not poor. She's in the wealthiest 1 percent category. My job puts me in the top 25 percent. It's not as if I'm working retail and she's a corporate lawyer. I'd be fine on my own and she knows this. But I love her and want to marry her. I know I can find another woman who I'd eventually fall in love with. Trust me, she knows I have options. I'm barely 30, make a good income, have made no external "mistakes" in life (no divorces, kids, or any debt). She def. knows I have options. But, she also knows I love her. We both have options, we both love one another, and we'd both like the relationship to work. I disagree that it's acting beta to treat her with respect and affirm her qualities. I was being a **** before, but that wasn't the guy she fell for. That guy showed up 3-4 months into the rel. She treated me fine before that and I wasn't making any income then and treating her really well then too. 

Not sure your theory works in this case.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

You're one of those posters who disagrees with everything he doesn't want to hear. I can see that pretty clearly. I think your head is in the sand. You're going to do whatever you want to do. Just don't say you weren't warned.


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## maiplace (Mar 13, 2014)

And you make this judgement of of an N=1. LOL. Seriously? I gave a good empirical reason for disagreeing with your theory. I treated her the same way I'm treating her now (what you call me being a beta) for the first couple months of the relationship. She treated me very well then. I was also making zero money (was a student) for the first few months of the relationship. Again both these things go against your theory. Sorry, but I don't see how me noting some data points that do not align with your theory makes me a simple contrarian. I think it makes me someone who looks at the facts and tried to be objective. I'm def. open to aspects of your theory and anyone's theory, but you shouldn't be so self confident in your assessment based off of such little information, particularly when I provide more context showing that the theory isn't as workable in my situation as you think. 



WorkingOnMe said:


> *You're one of those posters who disagrees with everything he doesn't want to hear*. I can see that pretty clearly. I think your head is in the sand. You're going to do whatever you want to do. Just don't say you weren't warned.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

A lot of women hide what she is showing you, so good on her. She is not evil, bad, or some malicious woman trying to trick you (bait and switch). And you are right, she has no reason to "hook" you. So you answered your own question. If she has no reason to "hook" you, because she is the more financially stable, she doesn't want kids with you, then she also has no reason to trick you and continue this amazing sex life that seemed to absolutely stop when the "new" relationship wore off. Do you think we walk around getting nooners like we're porn stars after the new has wore off and we have other responsibilities to worry about? She probably confronted you about your attitude and comments towards her, when that same "new" wore off. The chase was over. SHe could move on to someone else and respark another year of uninhibited sex, or she could continue with you, and just sort of go through the motions. In fact, once the "new" wore off, she became, in my opinion, her real self. She's the catch. She understands it. She doesn't need to pretend to orgasm, fake orgasm, or pretend the relationship is some sex fest. 

When she met you she was wild and uninhibited. I've read very few stories where women who say they absolutely DO NOT NEED SEX AT ALL started their relationships feeling that way. In almost 99% of the stories here, the women started off in a new relationship doing everything possible to enjoy sex (like real life nymphos - nooners and all). I don't think women or men act or pretend to be sexual. I think being with someone new makes you sexual. It's fun, it's uninhibited, it's kinky, it's wild. it's NEW! Once the newness wears off, the real person tends to come out. 

If she is the one that is financially stable, and she is the one that was spoiling you, and she has no reason to hook you (for instance: you are a good guy that gives her attention, you make her feel sexy, she loves your friendship, she loves the intimacy you guys have together), then that's your answer. Welcome to the real her. This is the her you get after you're married, after the new wears off. 

Does how you treated her prior, with the comments about her weight or attire bother her? Yes, especially when she no longer enjoyed the new relationship and felt the chase was over. At that point, everything you ever did wrong in her eyes bothered her. Why? Because she was able to cut all strings with you and move on. That's power. Does it affect her in a way that she no longer can enjoy sex? If so, that's a huge red flag. If she is that fragile, then regardless, you can expect for the rest of your life to have the same issues. 

In other words: Run.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

maiplace said:


> Close, but I don't think this works either. I'm not poor. She's in the wealthiest 1 percent category. My job puts me in the top 25 percent. It's not as if I'm working retail and she's a corporate lawyer. I'd be fine on my own and she knows this. But I love her and want to marry her. I know I can find another woman who I'd eventually fall in love with. Trust me, she knows I have options. I'm barely 30, make a good income, have made no external "mistakes" in life (no divorces, kids, or any debt). She def. knows I have options. But, she also knows I love her. We both have options, we both love one another, and we'd both like the relationship to work. I disagree that it's acting beta to treat her with respect and affirm her qualities. I was being a **** before, but that wasn't the guy she fell for. That guy showed up 3-4 months into the rel. She treated me fine before that and I wasn't making any income then and treating her really well then too.
> 
> Not sure your theory works in this case.


WOM is making the same point, essentially, that the rest of the women are.

Define FOR HER what "enough effort" looks like to you.
Define for yourself when the cut off point is.

Will you see enough effort by such date?
Will you see enough progress by another date?

Those are your boundaries. Stick to them. You can't force a person to get healthy, but there is no reason why you should stick around with someone who is not putting in enough effort.

Why it is what it is may help you understand, but it won't change the fact that you're unhappy and the relationship has to change.

I still understand you WOM.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

maiplace said:


> In most cases, I might be inclined to agree with you. However, she's financially secure. I'm the low earner. Like 10-1. She also doesn't particularly want children. What motivation would she have to "hook me"?


Who knows? Maybe it's what she expects of her life. Maybe she'd just like the extra purchasing power of two incomes. My wife had a great career for 19 years before we married. She quit before we had our first anniversary. Surveys of employed women show us that most would prefer to not have to work. My ex told me in no uncertain terms that she didn't want kids. That was before she secretly quit taking birth control as a deliberate tactic to get married (oh, and she promptly quit her career, too). When you are looking at an unmarried woman, you are seeing the pristine photo of the platter and not looking at what's actually going to be in the paper bag handed to you. If that photo looks funky to you, now, just wait until you see what's in the bag.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

maiplace said:


> Close, but I don't think this works either. I'm not poor. She's in the wealthiest 1 percent category. My job puts me in the top 25 percent. It's not as if I'm working retail and she's a corporate lawyer. I'd be fine on my own and she knows this. But I love her and want to marry her. I know I can find another woman who I'd eventually fall in love with. Trust me, she knows I have options. I'm barely 30, make a good income, have made no external "mistakes" in life (no divorces, kids, or any debt). She def. knows I have options. But, she also knows I love her. We both have options, we both love one another, and we'd both like the relationship to work. I disagree that it's acting beta to treat her with respect and affirm her qualities. I was being a **** before, but that wasn't the guy she fell for. That guy showed up 3-4 months into the rel. She treated me fine before that and I wasn't making any income then and treating her really well then too.
> 
> Not sure your theory works in this case.


The points you made about money definitely made sense. WorkingOnMe may have been off the mark on you not heading anywhere, but a woman in the top 1% loses interest in a man in the top 25%. This is VERY common. It doesn't mean she is bad, or you are a loser. It means she doesn't respect you the same way she would respect a powerful executive that she looks up to. It doesn't mean that's a dealbreaker either, but his theory definitely works in your case. Nothing you've explained changes that.

A strong independent woman needs a strong man. All your replies for me, scream, "She is a great catch. She has money. She is in the top 1%. She was hurt by me, I was such a bad person. Now I am doing everything right and she still has no sexual desire for me. She fell in love with a nice beta guy (that wasn't blaming himself for being a bad boyfriend back then I hope)and I became worse during the relationship, so now I am trying to be exactly what she wants me to be when we met. The nice guy beta. 

Your behavior is very beta. Who cares if she started liking you as a beta that wasn't mean or nasty (alpha doesn't mean being mean and nasty anyway). A LOT of women fall for beta guys, but that's what changes for them later. Eventually they want a man, not a doormat. However, I will admit, at this point you have no choice. You can't be alpha, you can't take charge, you can't list off all the things she does to annoy you too, like, at least enjoy sex with me like you care. Nope. She has all the chips stacked in her favor. And you changed from the rude, evil, horrible boyfriend you were, to trying to please her in every way.... and it's just not working.

Is that the life you want? Do you want her to take you on trips and blame yourself for all her shortcomings? Do you want to keeping hearing all the excuses and reasons why she may not enjoy sex anymore?

I assume in her income bracket, she is well respected. I am also assuming (yes, I have to assume because I don't know everything) she wants a man that's respected by her coworkers and peers. She wants someone that a man in her position, a peer, can look at and respect. It makes her proud she has you. Her lack of sexual desire for you really does seem like she just lost interest. Why have sex with someone she really doesn't respect. And not being able to make her cum anymore? It really isn't that hard to figure out, but you seem to want to make it hard and complicated. The more complicated it is, the more no theory works on your very unique situation (that actually isn't unique at all).

I wish you luck. You may be in love, you may feel like she is the catch of YOUR life (not hers -- but you may be right), but she isn't going to hit that magic switch you are looking for and all the sudden be the woman she was during the time you say you were horrible to her (but sex was great).


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## maiplace (Mar 13, 2014)

I'm not upset with you for inferring that I'm "beta." I'm not sure whether that's true, however. I'm not sure I understand the whole dichotomy perfectly well but a few additional details (without shedding too much, I don't want my identity to come out should a colleague or a friend read these boards):

I have slept with many more people than my partner has
While she earns more than me, my job is far more prestigious. I wouldn't worry about it being respect. Think Ivy League Professor or High Ranking Govt Official. I assure you many insurance salesman and small business owners "make more money" than Colin Powell did as Sec of State, but clearly his job was more prestigious. We're easily on equal footing in the status dept. Finally, I was sleeping with multiple women when I decided to break that lifestyle off and make a commitment to her. I was settling down. I don't think she can see me as a beta when on paper I have better options than she does. 

At 31 yo, a reasonable income, high status job, no kids & no doubt, with a terminal degree in hand it is obvious to her and her friends that I could pull a very desirable 26-27 yo. I chose her (4-5 years my senior) because we click, I fell in love with her, we want the same things out of life, etc. I'm not saying she doesn't have options. She could find a nice 40-42 yo man, no doubt. But we're on equal footing in the options dept.

Plus neither one of us see this as a power struggle. She just isn't horny for anything. I'm sure I have something to do with that, but it isn't my job, trust me. I realize some "new money" types might think that. But prestige matters to both of us. We're both selective college graduates and value education. She won't fall for the real estate agent that makes 200k. She values education more.



Coldie said:


> The points you made about money definitely made sense. WorkingOnMe may have been off the mark on you not heading anywhere, but a woman in the top 1% loses interest in a man in the top 25%. This is VERY common. It doesn't mean she is bad, or you are a loser. It means she doesn't respect you the same way she would respect a powerful executive that she looks up to. It doesn't mean that's a dealbreaker either, but his theory definitely works in your case. Nothing you've explained changes that.
> 
> A strong independent woman needs a strong man. All your replies for me, scream, "She is a great catch. She has money. She is in the top 1%. She was hurt by me, I was such a bad person. Now I am doing everything right and she still has no sexual desire for me. She fell in love with a nice beta guy (that wasn't blaming himself for being a bad boyfriend back then I hope)and I became worse during the relationship, so now I am trying to be exactly what she wants me to be when we met. The nice guy beta.
> 
> ...


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## maiplace (Mar 13, 2014)

There's some very interesting points in here. You've pushed me to think more deeply about the issue. Thanks for this. One thing, however, that confuses me is this. Yes, she's financially stable and doesn't "need a man." But like many women, she doesn't want to end up alone. I know this much. If she is no longer excited by me or if I no longer 'do it' for her, why would she stay with me when she knows I will leave down the road if this doesn't get fixed? Wouldn't her optimal strategy be to leave me now while she's still in her mid 30s and getting male attention, rather than wait until she's 40-42 and I've thrown in the towel. This tells me she actually is holding out hope that the spark comes back and/or therapy works, no? In other words, I do, in a way hold the cards. Us breaking up when I'm 35 leaves me in a stronger position to re-enter the dating market. I'll have more income and be prime material for dating 28-31 yo women. Her at 40-42, no way. Money aside. That's what I don't get.



Coldie said:


> A lot of women hide what she is showing you, so good on her. She is not evil, bad, or some malicious woman trying to trick you (bait and switch). And you are right, she has no reason to "hook" you. So you answered your own question. If she has no reason to "hook" you, because she is the more financially stable, she doesn't want kids with you, then she also has no reason to trick you and continue this amazing sex life that seemed to absolutely stop when the "new" relationship wore off. Do you think we walk around getting nooners like we're porn stars after the new has wore off and we have other responsibilities to worry about? She probably confronted you about your attitude and comments towards her, when that same "new" wore off. The chase was over. SHe could move on to someone else and respark another year of uninhibited sex, or she could continue with you, and just sort of go through the motions. In fact, once the "new" wore off, she became, in my opinion, her real self. She's the catch. She understands it. She doesn't need to pretend to orgasm, fake orgasm, or pretend the relationship is some sex fest.
> 
> When she met you she was wild and uninhibited. I've read very few stories where women who say they absolutely DO NOT NEED SEX AT ALL started their relationships feeling that way. In almost 99% of the stories here, the women started off in a new relationship doing everything possible to enjoy sex (like real life nymphos - nooners and all). I don't think women or men act or pretend to be sexual. I think being with someone new makes you sexual. It's fun, it's uninhibited, it's kinky, it's wild. it's NEW! Once the newness wears off, the real person tends to come out.
> 
> ...


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## MysticSoul (Mar 3, 2014)

Am I understanding this correctly, that she has NEVER had an orgasm while in a relationship with you?


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

You're assuming "prestige" is what pushes her buttons. Money may be what pushes her buttons. She's just not into you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## maiplace (Mar 13, 2014)

No no no.... The first 8-10 months of our relationship we were having sex twice a day. She'd have 1-2 every time. Never an issue. This only started after we had a huge blowup in the relationship and she let a lot of stuff that had bottled up (about the way I was treating her) out. That's why I know she's not simply an LD case. She's as normal as they come. Had 3-4 sexual partners in her past, enjoyed sex, wanted it 4-6 times a week for the entire first year of the relationship. I do realize the first few months are always an outlier, but she enjoyed sex and initiated often throughout the first year. In fact, I couldn't keep up at times (in my head). Physically I could, but mentally I was never with a girl who wanted it as often (save one nympho in college lol).



MysticSoul said:


> Am I understanding this correctly, that she has NEVER had an orgasm while in a relationship with you?


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## maiplace (Mar 13, 2014)

Her ex, who makes half a mil a year begged to have her back during the first 6 months of our relationship. To this day she won't even be friends with the guy. I'm not trying to be a jerk or know it all, and I realize most ppl on here are just trying to help me, but trust me, this girl is not turned on by money. She's an Ivy League grad who cares far more about a guy being sophisticated, well travelled, and knowledgable about art/culture than rich. My profession suits her and status compatibility is not an issue. Plus she's made enough money that she could retire now! (Someone up thread wondered whether she wanted a big earner so she could quit working). She works because she loves being an entrepreneuer. She doesn't need the money.




Sbrown said:


> You're assuming "prestige" is what pushes her buttons. Money may be what pushes her buttons. She's just not into you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Why would she have the hots for you after you basically emotionally abused her? It just doesn't work that way, women need to feel safe and cherished. Sorry but let her go and get on with her life. 

FWIW HD female here and nothing would kill my desire faster than a disrespectful, d bag man that has to undermine me in order to boost his own self worth.

Let her go, she deserves better.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

dp


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

"Yes, she's financially stable and doesn't "need a man." 

Donald Trump is rich. He doesn't need any more money. He's somewhere today trying to get more.


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## catfan (Jan 12, 2013)

Commenting about her looks surely will influence how she feels being naked and having sex. If she already had self esteem issues before this....it could be a big blast to her self confidence. If my boyfriend acted this way...I don't know how I would react, but it wouldn't be pretty and sex ....well not on my list anymore. Why on earth would anyone want it with a person who thinks they are ugly. Giant mood killer.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

Something smells funny....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MysticSoul (Mar 3, 2014)

maiplace said:


> No no no.... The first 8-10 months of our relationship we were having sex twice a day. She'd have 1-2 every time. Never an issue. This only started after we had a huge blowup in the relationship and she let a lot of stuff that had bottled up (about the way I was treating her) out. That's why I know she's not simply an LD case. She's as normal as they come. Had 3-4 sexual partners in her past, enjoyed sex, wanted it 4-6 times a week for the entire first year of the relationship. I do realize the first few months are always an outlier, but she enjoyed sex and initiated often throughout the first year. In fact, I couldn't keep up at times (in my head). Physically I could, but mentally I was never with a girl who wanted it as often (save one nympho in college lol).


There could be many factors at work here. 

-She could having complex emotional damage from your time of emotional abuse, that is making it difficult for her to trust and open up to you. 
-She could be having hormonal changes, that affects her libido. 
-She could be experiencing performance anxiety anytime you have sex, knowing that she hasn't gotten an O in x amount of times, stressing about if she'll get one this time or not. 

As to a drop in the frequency, if the woman isn't reaching O, chances are she doesn't fill fulfilled, and her desire to have unsatisfactory sex drops. 

Do you go down on her? Spent time worshiping her as a person, her body, her mind, her spirit?


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

Tell a women she's beautiful every day, she'll never believe it. Call her ugly once, she'll never forget it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## learning to love myself (Apr 18, 2013)

I'm a woman.

I have had every up and down there is to have in a marriage. I have always been a very sexual woman however one of my biggest hurdles was my husband doing some of the same things you did to your woman.

My husband pinching my belly and telling me I could look better, thinking this some how would motivate me to lose weight was stupidity on his part, before long I stopped being nude in front of him, who wants to be constantly bashed by the one they love most?

Then adding insult to injury looking at woman who we know look better than are self is a huge slap in the face.

I cant even imagine going up to my husband and poking him in the belly and laughing like the Pillsbury doughboy would not mess with how he views himself or watching the movie 300 and say something like, um um um, "I could ride you for hours" wouldn't mess with his libido.

Back on point, we over came a lot of this and once I realized he loved every inch of me and it was only me he wanted, my sex drive sored again.

Yes I cried the first few times and it took some time to O again, (I was in my own head) but everything came rushing back like we were in our 20's. 

Treat her like your dating again, take the lead and show her how much you desire her.


Its good that you have realized this and you can recover, you just have to show her


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## maiplace (Mar 13, 2014)

Thank you so much for this. Your response gives me some hope. I realize there's the possibility that she won't be able to regain her feelings for me again, but I'm willing to give it some more time. That's what you do when you love someone, right? 

As for the other poster's question: yes I am actually quite selfless intimately. When our intimate life was on fire, I was never a "wham bam thank you ma'am" kind of lover. I did the foreplay, the going down on her, the whole 9 yards, before we ever had sex. Unfortunately, now she's just so self conscious that she says it "tickles" and she can't get in the mindset of sexy/sexiness when we try and engage. As much as I want to focus our lovemaking sessions on her, she's not mentally in a place where she can relax and feel like a confident sexual person (the way she used to). This is something I'm hoping the sex therapist can help us with. Speaking of which, would anyone have advice on seeking out a therapist. Has anyone used one?

In terms of seeking couples counseling, would folks advise that we see someone who is more of a generalist, or a sex-specific one? Any tips on sorting through the good vs. bad counselors? I realize couples counseling isn't a panacea, but it's worth a shot, no?



learning to love myself said:


> I'm a woman.
> 
> I have had every up and down there is to have in a marriage. I have always been a very sexual woman however one of my biggest hurdles was my husband doing some of the same things you did to your woman.
> 
> ...


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I'm a big believer in how our past and everything that happens to us shapes us and stays a part of who we are. From what you've said, it seems to me as if your relationship has shaped her ability to feel sexy and comfortable with you when engaged in sexual intercourse. Things that we might not even realise are still issues for us are ingrained within every cell in our body. These memories are not so easy to forget or dismiss.

I don't think this woman will ever view you as a partner she can be completely intimate with without feeling self conscious/embarrassed/unsure and possibly even angry on some level.

I think it's great that you addressed the problem, that you made the effort to change, but I think the damage is done.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

maiplace said:


> There's some very interesting points in here. You've pushed me to think more deeply about the issue. Thanks for this. One thing, however, that confuses me is this. Yes, she's financially stable and doesn't "need a man." But like many women, she doesn't want to end up alone. I know this much. If she is no longer excited by me or if I no longer 'do it' for her, why would she stay with me when she knows I will leave down the road if this doesn't get fixed? Wouldn't her optimal strategy be to leave me now while she's still in her mid 30s and getting male attention, rather than wait until she's 40-42 and I've thrown in the towel. This tells me she actually is holding out hope that the spark comes back and/or therapy works, no? In other words,* I do, in a way hold the cards. Us breaking up when I'm 35 leaves me in a stronger position to re-enter the dating market. I'll have more income and be prime material for dating 28-31 yo women. Her at 40-42, no way. Money aside. That's what I don't get.*


Man there is lots you don't get, one of those things being that a woman in her 40's that likes sex AND has money is worth her weight in gold. You hold no cards of note but good luck to you anyway.


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## Belle_Saint (Mar 10, 2014)

maiplace said:


> A year later? I've been nothing but a great guy to her since then and have affirmed her every step of the way. I guess some things are not fixable, but I wouldn't know how a therapist would fix this if me changing and being a different guy for the past year hasn't done it.


That doesn't matter. Once with DH and I, he threatened that he could go out and just have sex if he wanted (no emotional connection, just to get off). Ever since then I have not forgotten and I still worry about that. He says he'd never do it and it was just words in the heat of the moment, but I haven't forgotten them.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

He does raise a good point - why is she still in this? She has motivation to stay in the relationship. They are discussing the future. She could have ended this.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

MissScarlett said:


> He does raise a good point - why is she still in this? She has motivation to stay in the relationship. They are discussing the future. She could have ended this.


I think she loves him. I think that you can love someone but still have issues with them and believe you can work it out. It sounds like she had and is investing a lot of time and energy into the relationship and generally people shy away from throwing that sort of investment away. She probably believes that at some point this issue will just resolve itself. 

If her trust issues with him are never actually resolved, some day in the future she will look back on the last 10+ years of treading water in the relationship and wish they'd never stayed together.

Edited to add: How often do people really change? We hope they do, we look for it, if it seems they have, we want to believe it, but deep down inside there's a little voice that says, "it's still there, you just wait".


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

I guess you may have caused some or most of the problem yourself but if she is not masturbating for a year than in my opinion she is LD and only HD at the start of a relationship. 

She may be more interested when she feels like she is lusted after and she no longer believes that you lust for her. She is probably still interested in you because sex is not that important to her. 

With more time she may be able to get past her feeling undesirable but I am thinking for you the good old days are gone and a recovery will only get you to once a week with an occasional better week or worse month or year.


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## ClimbingTheWalls (Feb 16, 2013)

What level of intimacy is there outside the bedroom?

Do you flirt? Compliment her? Go out on dates together? Spend time just cuddling up while watching a film?

I'm female, BTW


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

She doesn't really wind your watch, so why do you want to be with her?

You can be friends.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Every hour you while away, scratching your head, trying to figure out why this person doesn't function as a normal adult human, you could actually be spending with a normal adult human.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

*Hyperthyroid issue (she got checked for this

Over 75 percent of women with hypo and hyper thyroidism go undiagnosed. I was tested for 5 years by obgyn and doctors and told I fit within the normal parameter levels. Not until a car accident caused me to have a CT scan did the find a tumor on my thyroid. Even though I fit within normal levels it was not normal for me. Get a second opinion from a endocrinologist. ..he will look at your levels and symptoms to determine what is normal for you
You have to push....they really don't like to put people on thyroid drugs cause people abuse them as diet pills....thyroid hormone controls your weight, metabolism and libido. The bracket for normal is .5 to 5, it is way to broad and everybody's normal is different.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## maiplace (Mar 13, 2014)

OP here.

First off, thanks to everyone for their replies. This is my first time using TAM forums (long time lurker/reader) and I must say that it is nice to at least have a sounding board with so many genuinely thoughtful people.

I won't be able to respond to everyone's comments but more or less will focus on the big themes that I see in the responses to my initial post. I spent the weekend with my gf this weekend (we still live 100 miles apart until I begin my new job and we move in together). The weekend was a rough one to say the least. We did have better communication, but I have had to accept what many on this thread are pointing at: that the relationship may never recover.

Here's what's still confusing me: my gf is willing to go to couples therapy but she isn't prioritizing it. Along those lines I feel like I have to also add some information that I didn't in my original post. In addition to the times in our relationship when I was insensitive toward her and escalated body image issues, a much larger issue occurred which I neglected to mention. It's not surprising given that she is older than me, but, in short, gf was significantly more certain about a future with me earlier in the rel. than I was. Her feelings for me > my feelings for her early on. I wasn't quite ready. The upshot is, that although I am clearly head over heels for her now (and she knows and believes this), she took an emotional step back and put up a bit of an emotional wall when it was clear to her that I wasn't yet "in it, to win it" when she already was at the 8 month to 1 yr marker. I think this is important info to provide because it further explains how she became detached.

That said, for those of you wondering (particularly the men) why I am hanging around in a sexless relationship given the situation. It's simple: I love this woman. She's not perfect, but absent my emotional immaturity I think we'd be in a much better place now. Given that I'm not too old and have plenty of time to find a life partner, I'm willing to endure a lengthy "fix it" period even if it fails because I love her and I'm not selling myself to a life of solitude if it doesn't work out. To me, it's worth the effort. I do have an internal deadline to some degree. If we can't get things back on course a year after moving in together (which happens soon) then I will probably have to move on.

In any event, the other major theme I wanted to put out there is that YES, we are intimately close in other (non physical areas). I think what scares me the most is that in many ways she isn't upset. She isn't coming to me or verbally explaining that she agrees the relationship is in trouble because of what happened with me hurting her. Instead, she just falls back on what her current therapist (who I have my doubts about) says about the normalcy of waxing and waning libido. I told my gf last night that frankly it isn't even about the SEX per se to me. Sex is an act. It's less the absence of the act itself that upsets me and more the fact that the desire and "I'm into you" look in her eyes is gone. For whatever reason she doesn't seem as freaked out by it as I am. Again, I know ppl on this forum are certain she's LD. I suppose going to couples therapy (diff therapist btw) can add some insight into that possibility. But, it's hard for me to see it being a simple case of LD. I realize sex in the beginning is "new", but I don't think (esp. since "bait and switch" isn't really applicable to my situation) a woman who was as ravenous sexually as she was for the 1st year of our relationship would be LD all along. I even asked her about her past relationships (one was 5 years long) and she said she never had things dry up like we've experienced. So I know this is a first for her too.

At the end of the day, what is so frustrating to me is that she really does love me and she wants a future with me. There's no BS there, but at the same time I can't help but feel that she's not PRIORITIZING finding a solution to why she's "not that into me" anymore in the same way that I would be if the situation were reversed. She keeps telling me that she forgives me for the past, and I even raise the prospect that it's subconsious for her at this point and that she's not open emotionally. For my part, the fact that I've stuck by her side through bad times now, has to earn some credibility with her for me not being like every other guy in her life who has disappointed her. She knows that I'm in it to win it. I told her last night that I'm not afraid to be alone, but I am afraid to lose her because she's the 1st woman I've been in love with. She responded emotionally. I can see she cares, but I'm not able to get much more verbally out of her. It just doesn't make sense to me. I sure hope the therapist can at least help us dialogue through some of our issues.

Thanks everyone.


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## tornado (Jan 10, 2014)

The problem is you don't wanna be in a fix it relationship at this point. Once married things will get worse, you have kids, bills, work related issues, family issues. There are two kinds of people. People who do what it takes yo solve problems and people who think there not important enough for me to solve. Your girlfriend seems to fall into the ladder. She may see that you have a problem with the sex but she doesn't think its a problem for her. The truth is in a relationship if its a problem for one its a problem for both. I doubt she really understands how you feel because its just not that important to her. Good luck but proceed with caution.


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## CharlotteMcdougall (Mar 15, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> How much time has passed since you glorious d bag days?
> 
> You said she can't even orgasm but she wants to....that leads me to think this may be both hormonal -is she on BC pills? And unresolved resentment.
> 
> ...


:iagree: This is a very good post. Take a multifaceted approach. 

There seems to be a lot of projection from male members of TAM. The immediate negative assumptions about wives leave me bemused and saddened. 

Not all wives who object to sex or certain sexual acts are money hungry prudes.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

I didn't read your whole thread. Frankly, I found it exhausting to read over and over (in almost every one of your posts) about the money, what a high wage earner she is, what a prestigious job you have, how she pampers you financially, etc. You seem WAY too focused on the financial aspects of this relationship.

Personally, I would bail. Having been stuck in a 20 year marriage with a low-drive partner (who I ultimately divorced) who was a VERY high wage earner, I can tell you the money is good for NOTHING if the sex and intimacy aren't there.

You say there are many men who would happily step into a relationship with her if you weren't in the picture. That is ridiculous on its face: ask yourself how many healthy men would be happy to step into a relationship with an LD partner who won't have sex with them? 

Something is "off" here. Just my 2 cents...


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

CharlotteMcdougall said:


> ...The immediate negative assumptions about wives leave me bemused and saddened.
> 
> Not all wives who object to sex or certain sexual acts are money hungry prudes.


I think you should not place too high a value on that sort of response that you see here. There is always going to be that type of person. But this forum does not represent a random sample of men rather it is significantly full of men with relationship problems.

OP,
I do not think that conditional HD is as rare as you think. Certainly it can be medical and age related. It can also be a confidence issue or a problem of how sexy she finds you and yes some women are very sexual at the beginning of a relationship and can do a complete reverse once the relationship is secure. 

I doubt a true HD person would just suddenly loose all interest in sex short of a major medical problem.

Do you talk about sex in general? Is she good at communicating about that or is she inhibited?


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## maiplace (Mar 13, 2014)

Yes, we do talk about sex. Out of the 6-8 gf's that I've had she is easily #1 or #2 in terms of libido. On average, we had sex (at a minimum) once a day for the first 8-10 months. She was very flirty, open to almost anything sexually, and one of the most eager people I've been with before. Of course that was before the trust/security became an issue in our relationship. While I fully understand that causing our great sex life to blow apart/fizzle, what I don't understand is how her reaction isn't one of:

1. I can never fix this with you. We both need to move on so we can have healthy sexual intimacy in our future partnerships.

2. I love you deeply and want a future with you, thus WE need to figure this out so we can get back to what we had.

Either of those would make sense to me. I realize that libido waxes and wanes for women (more stress dependent than for men), situational (e.g. age, kids). But in our case the ONLY variable that has changed pre- and post-our great sex life was the loss of security and emotional damage. Yet she claims she's over it and has forgiven me. She does want to feel sexual again, but she says she's afraid that she'll never meet my expectations. It's all a mystery to me at this point. What do you do when someone says:

1. I don't like feeling this way (lack of libido)
2. I have no idea why I feel this way (but I've been medically cleared as normal).
3. My age and position in life wouldn't predict loss of sex drive
4. I love you and am willing to go to counseling but I'm afraid I'll never meet your expectations again in the bedroom




usmarriedguy said:


> I think you should not place too high a value on that sort of response that you see here. There is always going to be that type of person. But this forum does not represent a random sample of men rather it is significantly full of men with relationship problems.
> 
> OP,
> I do not think that conditional HD is as rare as you think. Certainly it can be medical and age related. It can also be a confidence issue or a problem of how sexy she finds you and yes some women are very sexual at the beginning of a relationship and can do a complete reverse once the relationship is secure.
> ...


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Don't try to understand women.
She was sexual to you for the first 8 months becuase she wanted marriage. Then you hurt her / made her feel unsafe. Then you did not show her you wanted to marry her. But alas you are still together. So, what have you learned? She does not need to be sexual with you for any reason, and she is not safe to be sexual with you becuase you may hurt her. So her reaction is that everything is good just like it is. You are a man. You think about listing numbers of things she should think. For her all is fine, no fix required. You should also realize that not all things you break can get put back together.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

I think that if confidence about her body is the only thing holding her back than she will probably get over it with time.

On the other hand if her problem is that she does not think she can meet your expectations in the bedroom maybe that is because she is tired of having so much sex. 

It is not only you asking her to loose weight and wear short shorts but the frequency and style where over her desired level. She has perceived that you want more than she feels she can guarantee and you might leave easily. So this is basically a test of whether you are in it for the long haul or not. (even if she does not realize it)

The problem with that scenario is that you will either have to wait a long time or marry her to find out if it is correct.

If you have confidence that she is really as sexual as you think than maybe you are right. You know her way better than we do. 

I damaged my wife's confidence early on by actually telling her she was not good at sex. (which was actually the truth) While it did not motivate her to try harder it also did not totally destroy her libido. But for the first 9 months we had sex 4-5 times a week and that dropped to once a week and sometimes a bit more (2 times last week) for the past 14 years. The past four years seems like she is starting to enjoy it a bit more. 

My wife is also a high wage earner but unlike you I am an not anywhere close to her status. I married her knowing that there was a mismatch of sexuality. 

All I am saying is that I do not believe that status and power are always an issue and sometimes other things are important besides sex. -Not that it has always been easy to live with someone who does not prioritize sex as highly.


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## justfabulous (Feb 9, 2014)

mineforever said:


> *Hyperthyroid issue (she got checked for this
> 
> Over 75 percent of women with hypo and hyper thyroidism go undiagnosed. I was tested for 5 years by obgyn and doctors and told I fit within the normal parameter levels. Not until a car accident caused me to have a CT scan did the find a tumor on my thyroid. Even though I fit within normal levels it was not normal for me. Get a second opinion from a endocrinologist. ..he will look at your levels and symptoms to determine what is normal for you
> You have to push....they really don't like to put people on thyroid drugs cause people abuse them as diet pills....thyroid hormone controls your weight, metabolism and libido. The bracket for normal is .5 to 5, it is way to broad and everybody's normal is different.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


*Absolutely true.* I too went years suffering thyroid-related (and adrenal-related) issues before a proper diagnoses, despite repeated tests showing me within the normal range. Both thyroid and adrenal issues can definitely affect libido, or kill it off entirely. Both are grossly misunderstood, underdiagnosed, and under-treated by the mainstream medical community. Adrenal and thyroid issues are closely inter-related. 

My life turned around when I got help from a good naturopathic doctor who was able to provide a diagnoses and treatment that completely evaded countless mainstream docs, despite their testing which always came back within normal ranges. After 10 years of suffering beginning in my 20s, I got my life back. 

I would strongly recommend that she consult a naturopathic doctor. They have access to more sensitive tests for adrenal and thyroid related issues than those currently being used in the mainstream medical community, and it was these tests that revealed my issues (mainstream tests showed me always within normal ranges); that was where my road back to proper hormonal balance and good health began. 

The possibility of adrenal exhaustion also really needs to be looked at (in addition to thyroid). I too am a female business owner, have been since I was in my early 20s. Regardless of how much we love our businesses, running a business is often stressful. Stress has a cumulative effective on the adrenal glands and can cause them to become burned out over time. We think we're managing stress and that we are doing just fine, but it can be taking more of a toll on the body (specifically the adrenals) than we realize. This definitely can affect sex drive in both men and women. 

Something really easy to try is to have her take licorice capsules (as in the herb, not the candy!) from a natural supplement store - 3-4 capsules twice as day for about 2 weeks. See if she notices any improvement with her sex drive coming back. Licorice helps nourish the adrenal glands, is completely safe. If she has an adrenal issue, she may start noticing her libido coming back - it may be a dramatic improvement, it may only be minor but nonetheless noticeable. Lack of improvement does not conclusively rule out adrenal problems, but if she gets an improvement, it definitely indicates an adrenal exhaustion issue. At that point, if she wants more help with treatment - she needs to get to a naturopathic doctor, mainstream docs wont know what to do for her (as a whole, they still do not recognize adrenal exhaustion as very real medical condition, which is truly shameful). Adrenal exhaustion can take a while to heal from, so even with improvement from the licorice, its good to be monitored by someone who really knows what they're doing. When untreated or undertreated problems an become much more serious than just libido. If she thinks she's better and stops treatment too soon, she will slide all over again.

Interesting aside: My problem with thyroid/adrenal issues goes back about 15 years, but this past year my husband, mid 40s, started having some ED issues which was very scary for both of us. We were not ready for THAT! Went to the family doctor, all tests came back normal - doctor just shook his head. My husband had been under some ongoing major stress for the last 2.5 years, which continues to this day. Finally I put the pieces together for myself and wondered if it was adrenal burnout from the crazy stress - I suggested he do a trial on my licorice capsules - within 3 days, the ED problem that had been going on for months SIGNIFICANTLY improved - I mean it was dramatic. He has remained on the licorice daily (given thst the off-the-chart sstress continues) and ED is no longer an issue (we've also added Korean Red Ginseng for added benefit). 

Adrenal burnout is seriously under recognized by the medical community and has so many debilitating side effects - sexual dysfunction is just one of many possible symptoms, it gets much ore serious than that. Some people have just one symptom, some have many. 

If she tries the licorice and starts feeling her libido returning, you might also have her add WHITE Ginseng for extra support (white for women, red for men - major difference) - this will help support the libido further while the licorice heals the adrenals.

I would definitely say do a trial run for a full 2 weeks. My husband saw results in 3 days, but its different for everybody. I had not expected to see an improvement in him that quickly, if there was to be an improvement at all, but was very grateful.

Just a suggestion - worth a try . You never know. 

I also have comments, from a woman's perspective, on the emotional/ mental aspects that might be affecting her given what you described - will save that for another post when time permits.



mineforever said:


> *Hyperthyroid issue (she got checked for this
> 
> Over 75 percent of women with hypo and hyper thyroidism go undiagnosed. I was tested for 5 years by obgyn and doctors and told I fit within the normal parameter levels. Not until a car accident caused me to have a CT scan did the find a tumor on my thyroid. Even though I fit within normal levels it was not normal for me. Get a second opinion from a endocrinologist. ..he will look at your levels and symptoms to determine what is normal for you
> You have to push....they really don't like to put people on thyroid drugs cause people abuse them as diet pills....thyroid hormone controls your weight, metabolism and libido. The bracket for normal is .5 to 5, it is way to broad and everybody's normal is different.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## justfabulous (Feb 9, 2014)

Coldie said:


> Do you think we walk around getting nooners like we're porn stars after the new has wore off and we have other responsibilities to worry about?


Some of us do.  Even after 20 yrs of marriage.


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## ClimbingTheWalls (Feb 16, 2013)

OP - if she isn't making it a priority it is probably because it isn't a priority to her. You have told her it is a priority to you but unless she genuinely believes that you will leave at some point, and does not want you to leave, there is not really much incentive to do anything about it.

Things will probably come to a head when you move in together.

As for her saying she doesn't like not feeling attracted to you, that is probably her saying she doesn't like how it makes you feel. I don't dislike the fact that I don't like to eat blancmange. I don't like blancmange and it just never crosses my radar as a result. Unless someone puts it in front of me I don't think about it. And if my husband put it in front of me and said I had to like it or he was leaving, I may well try to force it down my throat for his sake but it wouldn't immediately make me want it. If I persevered with it, for his sake, I may well come to appreciate the wonders of blancmange but it's not an immediate thing.

In my own case of years of sexless marriage I got to the point where I absolutely wanted sex - and how - but not with him. Since reconciling, the sex was initially like forcing myself to eat the blancmange, but it was worth it because we did get the intimacy back through perseverance.


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