# Is 6 weeks NC enough time to be out of the fog?



## member2012 (Jul 12, 2012)

After 3 D day's, my husband has seemingly made it 6 weeks NC with his AP from and EA. I was able to confirm through spying it was not a PA. I am hoping this is a really good place to be for us. He seems very much back to normal, says he is here, and I have no evidence to prove otherwise. 
Does anybody have thoughts on how much time it takes to be safely out of the water?


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2 (Aug 6, 2012)

I think it might take a little more time before his mind is completely off of it. That being said things look headed in a good direction. The change you see in him is certainly a good sign and it shows the fog is lifting.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

It took me 30 seconds. Seriously. One moment I was going to have sex with OW, within 30 seconds I knew what I was doing was wrong, and I felt like what I was, then, a cheating POS.


----------



## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

IT depends on the length and severity of the attachment. Everyone is different. But if you have to ask then probably not.


----------



## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> It took me 30 seconds. Seriously. One moment I was going to have sex with OW, within 30 seconds I knew what I was doing was wrong, and I felt like what I was, then, a cheating POS.


Sounds about how long Regret's fog lasted when I talked to the xOM on the phone Dday eve. She snapped out of it pretty hard.

OP, if you've been following up and feel that NC has been kept, you're the only one who can see if he's still in the fog. Does he show remorse and true honesty right now? I can actually, physically _see_ a difference in my wife from that day.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

oaksthorne said:


> Wow; I wish what you describe was more the norm with cheaters. Your wife is very lucky. Most cheaters feel entitled to cheat because their " needs aren't being met ". I feel like I "need" a new car, so naturally I am entitled to break into a show room and take one. Good for you.


Yes, entitled was how I was feeling after my wife's affair. 

But at the moment when I was going to go the next step with OW (we were naked in bed, FFS!), I saw an image of my wife, clearly in my head. She looked so happy and she was smiling (it was like a hologram) and I freaked out, inside. I made an excuse to OW and we didn't have sex, thank God.


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

member2012 said:


> After 3 D day's, my husband has seemingly made it 6 weeks NC with his AP from and EA. I was able to confirm through spying it was not a PA. I am hoping this is a really good place to be for us. He seems very much back to normal, says he is here, and I have no evidence to prove otherwise.
> Does anybody have thoughts on how much time it takes to be safely out of the water?


I was in an EA and it took me 6 weeks of full NC.

However any contact whatsover restarts the clock. Most folks backslide at least once. 

The thing is one should trust but verify for a long time to come. Getting through withdrawal is critical indeed. Then it is time IMO to do His Needs Her Needs and not forget the boundary setting.

There needs to be full transpency ... forever.

But NC will have to remain forever as well. You are never out of that woods.


----------



## donders (May 9, 2012)

From the stories I've read there is no specific amount of time that makes it "safe". Some cheaters go back after YEARS. 

You just might have to sleep with one eye open for the rest of your life.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

If he was in an emotional affair, then in all likelihood he was infatuated, and infatuation takes anywhere from 6 weeks to 3 months to wear off from its most powerful biological hormonal grip. 

However, each bit of new contact restarts the clock, because it reinforces the pleasure that the cheater experiences from being infatuated. This type of contact can be direct, but even something like googling the AP, gazing at pictures or memorabilia, or in the case of Seesaw's wife, listening to music or radio shows from the AP can all reinforce infatuation.


----------



## margrace (Aug 12, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> Most folks backslide at least once.
> 
> There needs to be full transpency ... forever.
> 
> But NC will have to remain forever as well. You are never out of that woods.


hope this isn't too off-topic -- i would be happy to start another thread but i was just wondering about that: backsliding, and how to know what it means. 

is this true even for Ws who eventually go on to create true R with their partners? 

my WH recently admitted that a month after the supposed beginning of NC (which was 5 months ago), he saw OW again, and not again since then (so he says).

so...i had asked him to be honest with me, and that's what came out.

it leaves me feeling torn: NC was clearly a lie, so am i stupid for still working so hard at R? or is this the kind of backsliding that is possibly part of the process?


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

margrace said:


> hope this isn't too off-topic -- i would be happy to start another thread but i was just wondering about that: backsliding, and how to know what it means.
> 
> is this true even for Ws who eventually go on to create true R with their partners?
> 
> ...


Well actually seeing the person would count as backsliding for sure. But I am thinking of just the attempted cobtact like with an email, a text or phone conversation. It could even feel innocent to the WS. But it is not from a brain chemical perspective. I am talking about the inevitable weak moments that humans have when dealing with an addiction. Because this is what we are talking about here. Like an alcoholic walking towards a bar in a bad moment.

I believe the answer to question is yes. But I would guess it depends on what the contact entails. In my case it was an email. Nothing bad at all other than it was contact that should not have happened. That was a long time ago and my wife and I have been married for 36 years. I hasten to say that my EA was something I did not intend. I did not even believe I was in one until I completed withdrawal. I never stopped loving my wife.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

margrace, this brings up the issue of verification. Our excellent MC told my husband that total transparency, accounting for time, etc. were a way for him to prove his loyalty to me, and that he should welcome it.

I entirely agree with Entropy; and this does bring up a tricky issue. It is extremely hard for someone to stop a compulsive activity cold turkey. 

Many affairs have elements of a compulsion--that is, although the cost / benefit analysis makes no sense on paper, their brain has literally changed physiologically so that they get immense pleasure from interacting with their affair partner. This isn't an issue of having orgasms; this is a matter of sending a text, waiting in anticipation for a response, and then getting butterflies when you hear your phone bing. Yes, people in the throes of infatuation behave like teenagers because it's the very same emotion being experienced by both.

So how to tell the difference between, I really want to quit but it's very hard to stop; and, I have no intention of quitting, ever? Well, the truth is, you have to assume the latter, and verify that the latter ISN'T true, until you start to forget verifying at all, because you never turn up any contrary evidence.

You have turned up contrary evidence, but he has told you about it. The fact that you didn't discover it is a two-edged sword; you would rather that he confessed on his own, of course, but confessing on his own means that you don't have any way to independently confirm his version of events. All of this probably sets your healing back almost to the original day of discovery.

What are you doing to independently verify NC? Or perhaps you should set up your own thread to address your specific set of facts.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

The NC time frame is good, but my biggest concern would be what your fWH is doing to affair proof the marriage from her on out. Be it with the same OW or some one new, years down the road.


----------



## margrace (Aug 12, 2012)

iheartlife and entropy, you both know SO much... i won't persist in occupying the thread but i do want to thank you.

briefly, i was basically doing nothing special. he seemed to be giving me a full account of his activities and i seemed to be able to check on him when i needed to. of course, the full account only included the activities that he wanted me to know about 

i know now that NC is real only because she left the country with her boyfriend.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

margrace said:


> iheartlife and entropy, you both know SO much... i won't persist in occupying the thread but i do want to thank you.
> 
> briefly, i was basically doing nothing special. he seemed to be giving me a full account of his activities and i seemed to be able to check on him when i needed to. of course, the full account only included the activities that he wanted me to know about
> 
> i know now that NC is real only because she left the country with her boyfriend.


Are there no phones or Internet where she lives? Seriously.


----------



## margrace (Aug 12, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> Are there no phones or Internet where she lives? Seriously.


wow. i feel like i'm the one in the fog....


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

margrace, take a look at the link in my signature to Not Just Friends. It is a link to google books and excerpts a great deal of the book, including the table of contents. You need to get up to speed on infidelity. It won't take you long (sadly) because cheaters act in very predictable patterns. You just need to learn to step back and see them.

I don't mean to make you paranoid. He may not be in contact with her at all and as faithful as the day is long. But he has profoundly broken your trust, even after he supposedly would never contact her again. He has to earn it back.


----------



## margrace (Aug 12, 2012)

thank you, iheartlife. i will check out that book -- i have actually already downloaded it on your recommendation to someone else.

i have a lot of respect for your point of view and have learned a lot from you -- you seem really knowledgeable, appropriately cautious and questioning, AND you have also hung in there and i gather that you have repaired your marriage.

am i right about that? is there a link to your story?


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

margrace, you are kind to say that, but the truth is what I like about CWI is that there are quite a few posters with excellent insight into infidelity. A great deal of the knowledge comes from personal experience of course, but even more of it comes from being widely read on the subject, and also by watching the arc of affairs as people post on TAM.

That is why someone who comes here with a single agenda is not likely to carry the day, because one person's narrow perspective just doesn't fit all. Human beings are far more complicated than that.

Entropy, for example, is someone I have great respect for and I agree with him about 99% of the time. You may not realize that Entropy betrayed his wife by entering an affair. That is another benefit to this forum--there are people here who did the unthinkable and are able to share a lot of helpful perspective from the other side of things. There are even one or two entirely unrepentant cheaters who are now faithful and happily married--and although everyone doesn't agree with them all the time for obvious reasons, their input is at times valuable as well.

My story is long-winded (quite on purpose--hardly anyone will sit through it) in a thread started by highwood. But, unfortunately, my story is unique in certain respects that is not useful to others seeking to end an affair. My circumstances can't really be duplicated on purpose. But I can speak from the perspective of the 'arc' of an affair as it draws to a natural close.

Waiting out feelings of infatuation is a huge mistake. The most optimisitic estimate of time for doing that is 2 years. The trouble is, intermittent contact prolongs infatuation (because reality doesn't get a chance to insert itself) and that can drag the fantasy world out by a couple of orders of magnitude.

Start your own thread if you feel up to it.


----------



## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

That's a great point iheart...cuz sometimes a BS can certainly get a different point of view from someone like Entropy, a WS. I don't get the same feeling from Regret, mostly cuz she's my WS/wife, so it doesn't hit as hard as someone like him or others.

I'd like to hear more from you margrace.


----------



## margrace (Aug 12, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> That's a great point iheart...cuz sometimes a BS can certainly get a different point of view from someone like Entropy, a WS. I don't get the same feeling from Regret, mostly cuz she's my WS/wife, so it doesn't hit as hard as someone like him or others.
> 
> I'd like to hear more from you margrace.


yes, i'm really seeing that -- how valuable it is to have people coming to this issue from different experiences and vantage points. in fact, i think it was one of entropy's comments that started my thinking down this particular path.

and thanks for the thread-starting encouragement...i have to sign off for tonight but i'm going to do that


----------



## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

"waiting out feelings of infatuation is a big mistake"-- perfect quote and one issue I struggle with daily......Infatuation is such a powerful aphrodisiac. You mentioned how even a song can throw a WS back into the allure of the affair.....how does a BS even being to cope with that infatuation power? 

In fact I have experienced that.....WS heard Adele (fire to the rain) and I could tell he was thinking of her......a song he listened to a lot while having his online affair.....5 months out and just a simple song can throw him into a funk. 

When does it go away if ever and how torturous for WS to have to live on the fringes of that memory for the BS and for us WS.


----------



## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

donders said:


> From the stories I've read there is no specific amount of time that makes it "safe". Some cheaters go back after YEARS.
> 
> You just might have to sleep with one eye open for the rest of your life.


I completely agree with this, especially if the EA was with someone the WS knew for a long time.

I know that I will have to worry about this possibility as long as my we are married. My wife's EA was with someone she considered one of her top 2 or 3 friends - an over 20 year friendship. She'll never forget him. This is the hardest thing I have to deal with.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

daggeredheart said:


> "waiting out feelings of infatuation is a big mistake"-- perfect quote and one issue I struggle with daily......Infatuation is such a powerful aphrodisiac. You mentioned how even a song can throw a WS back into the allure of the affair.....how does a BS even being to cope with that infatuation power?
> 
> In fact I have experienced that.....WS heard Adele (fire to the rain) and I could tell he was thinking of her......a song he listened to a lot while having his online affair.....5 months out and just a simple song can throw him into a funk.
> 
> When does it go away if ever and how torturous for WS to have to live on the fringes of that memory for the BS and for us WS.


daggered, as we've discussed before, your issue is that his infatuation was nearly 100% virtual. She was always going to be the golden, unattainable, mythic figure to him. When the affair is IRL, ****** in the armor have a chance to show. And that is the basic difference.

How can anyone compete with a person who can't endure in three-dimensional form? Because we both know that she hid her less attractive qualities. She was whatever he wanted her to be. "She" doesn't exist.


----------



## member2012 (Jul 12, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> I was in an EA and it took me 6 weeks of full NC.
> 
> However any contact whatsover restarts the clock. Most folks backslide at least once.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your reply.
In your experience f they were to bump into each other a year or two from now, what is the statistic that they would again want to start up?


----------



## member2012 (Jul 12, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> If he was in an emotional affair, then in all likelihood he was infatuated, and infatuation takes anywhere from 6 weeks to 3 months to wear off from its most powerful biological hormonal grip.
> 
> However, each bit of new contact restarts the clock, because it reinforces the pleasure that the cheater experiences from being infatuated. This type of contact can be direct, but even something like googling the AP, gazing at pictures or memorabilia, or in the case of Seesaw's wife, listening to music or radio shows from the AP can all reinforce infatuation.


He was completely infatuated, very much so for 5 months.


----------



## member2012 (Jul 12, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> Well actually seeing the person would count as backsliding for sure. But I am thinking of just the attempted cobtact like with an email, a text or phone conversation. It could even feel innocent to the WS. But it is not from a brain chemical perspective. I am talking about the inevitable weak moments that humans have when dealing with an addiction. Because this is what we are talking about here. Like an alcoholic walking towards a bar in a bad moment.
> 
> I believe the answer to question is yes. But I would guess it depends on what the contact entails. In my case it was an email. Nothing bad at all other than it was contact that should not have happened. That was a long time ago and my wife and I have been married for 36 years. I hasten to say that my EA was something I did not intend. I did not even believe I was in one until I completed withdrawal. I never stopped loving my wife.


So you said earlier that your withdrawal took 6 weeks, does that mean after 6 weeks you began to have a great sense of clarity?


----------



## member2012 (Jul 12, 2012)

the guy said:


> The NC time frame is good, but my biggest concern would be what your fWH is doing to affair proof the marriage from her on out. Be it with the same OW or some one new, years down the road.


we are in MC and our MC has him attending weekly addiction meetings.


----------



## member2012 (Jul 12, 2012)

margrace said:


> wow. i feel like i'm the one in the fog....


I think it is true , I feel like this whole experience had put me in a fog too.... just the way I found myself having to deal with it all... and now I don't want to be naive.


----------



## member2012 (Jul 12, 2012)

margrace said:


> thank you, iheartlife. i will check out that book -- i have actually already downloaded it on your recommendation to someone else.
> 
> i have a lot of respect for your point of view and have learned a lot from you -- you seem really knowledgeable, appropriately cautious and questioning, AND you have also hung in there and i gather that you have repaired your marriage.
> 
> am i right about that? is there a link to your story?


I agree, iheartlife, you seem to have a great understanding of it all. Entropy, you do as well.


----------



## member2012 (Jul 12, 2012)

How do you go for years and years keeping an eye on your spouse? I so preferred it before this ever happened.....


----------



## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

member2012 said:


> How do you go for years and years keeping an eye on your spouse? I so preferred it before this ever happened.....


That is certainly a daunting thought, isn't it.

In the days, weeks and months following Dday (3/6), I looked at our cell bill online every hour. I checked her emails constantly as well as her facebook account.

I think around July, when nothing had happened that would show contact with the xOM or any other kind of inappropriate behavior, my need to "watch" her became less and less. It's been weeks since I've looked at the cell account and about the same on email and facebook.

Trust builds slowly, but I, for one...will always be on guard. And she knows it.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

member2012 said:


> How do you go for years and years keeping an eye on your spouse? I so preferred it before this ever happened.....


You don't. If you find the trust isn't coming back, then you have to make the hard choice of deciding what you can, or as the case may be _cannot_, live with.

What you'll typically find is that you are checking multiple times a day at the start. You will be second-guessing everything. You will continue to try to find more evidence because this is a way of gaining insight into how and when they hid things, and this (your brain tells you) is a way to forestall their ability to hide things in the future.

But a reconciling 'wayward' spouse will welcome all of this. They may find it extremely sad, as evidence that you find them entirely untrustworthy, but they will want you to test them so they can prove they've returned to the marriage.

As time goes by you check less and less because nothing's turning up. This includes a lack of warning signs from your spouse that something is off. They are accounting for their time, etc. Eventually you get rather bored of checking and you start to forget.


----------



## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

"How can anyone compete with a person who can't endure in three-dimensional form? Because we both know that she hid her less attractive qualities. She was whatever he wanted her to be. "She" doesn't exist." <------just wish he could "get" that  

I suppose that's really what we all want, the WS to realize that the AP is a fantasy and that the BS is "real", present and willing to give them another chance at a satisfying, improved relationship.


----------



## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

daggeredheart said:


> "How can anyone compete with a person who can't endure in three-dimensional form? Because we both know that she hid her less attractive qualities. She was whatever he wanted her to be. "She" doesn't exist." <------just wish he could "get" that
> 
> I suppose that's really what we all want, the WS to realize that the AP is a fantasy and that the BS is "real", present and willing to give them another chance at a satisfying, improved relationship.


I would venture to say, though, that in your husband's case, his affair was a symptom of a larger issue--a desire to live in the past or the future, anywhere but the "now." That of course is true of all escapist fantasies and the allure of all affairs. But he seems to me to be very unhappy with HIMSELF, and as long as he feels this way, he will be drawn into an imaginary world that temporarily erases his pain.


----------



## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

I'm just going to print out all your post iheartlife and put them in a book  

You give me much to digest as always and of course, not happy with himself which is a ongoing in counseling.....


----------



## member2012 (Jul 12, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> That is certainly a daunting thought, isn't it.
> 
> In the days, weeks and months following Dday (3/6), I looked at our cell bill online every hour. I checked her emails constantly as well as her facebook account.
> 
> ...


Dig, are you saying that you had a total of 6 D day's? and how far apart were they?


----------



## member2012 (Jul 12, 2012)

I am at the point where I check maybe once a week. He seems to be getting over it faster now.
I remember a few weeks ago I was looking in his car at night for anything, he saw me and later said, 'You won't find anything because I am not doing it anymore. I know I made you this way and I am so sorry."


----------



## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

member2012 said:


> Dig, are you saying that you had a total of 6 D day's? and how far apart were they?


Oh dear God no!! LOL Sorry about that...the date was March 6th.

6 Ddays...someone woulda gotten a knife in the neck :rofl:


----------



## member2012 (Jul 12, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> Oh dear God no!! LOL Sorry about that...the date was March 6th.
> 
> 6 Ddays...someone woulda gotten a knife in the neck :rofl:


Lol. no kidding, I had 3 d days. The first happened after I already knew that something was going on and planned my own d day to confront on, and then the second when I thought there was NC, but found out that contact had been going on/ off and on for another 4 months. At that point he told he had been trying to end it , but it was a slow process.... And then a 3rd D day exactly 1 month later which I had been watching for this time, after one month since the 2nd d day he reached out to her and the OWH caught it just as it was happening and called me.
It has been 6 weeks now, the longest he has gone and I feel like it has finally dwindled away, but since this is the only time I have ever dealt with this sort of thing, sometimes I get suddenly concerned that something could start up again... 

and then I wonder what it will be like when at some point he or we bump in to her wether it be 6 months or a year form now, but I imagine at some point he will bump into her....


----------



## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

That wonder will always exist I think with any betrayed. What if they see each other somewhere.

That's where the trust factor comes in.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

iheartlife said:


> You don't. If you find the trust isn't coming back, then you have to make the hard choice of deciding what you can, or as the case may be _cannot_, live with.
> 
> What you'll typically find is that you are checking multiple times a day at the start. You will be second-guessing everything. You will continue to try to find more evidence because this is a way of gaining insight into how and when they hid things, and this (your brain tells you) is a way to forestall their ability to hide things in the future.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

I'm now over 2 years out. I've reached the point in my healing where I can't remember when the last time I checked or forget to check.

A couple of days ago, my fWW was saying her Angry Birds game on her iPhone was having problems, so I downloaded the updates on iTunes, got her phone, and updated it. Of course, only I have the iTunes password. It wasn't until I was reading a thread here that I suddenly remembered that I never even checked her backup file, so I checked. Of course I didn't find anything, nor do I expect to find anything anymore.


----------

