# Manly Advice Needed



## MilitaryWifeAK (Jun 25, 2012)

MEN NEEDED TO INTERPRET "MANSPEAK":

I'm new to this forum and wanted some feedback from others.

Hubby and I have been separated for almost 16 months which, to me, seems like an eternity. He is active-duty military and I was not asked to join him at his new duty station. We are married 19 years; at 20 years, I get a portion of his retirement and medical benefits. He said "You deserve it!"

He has made no efforts to save the marriage, to my knowledge, and has refused marital counseling when I suggested it. He IS a marriage & family therapist and knows that it's necessary.

There is no infidelity on my part and none on his, that I'm aware of. I think he's depressed, due to many military deployments and health issues associated with them. I have sent him the "you're free to go" email, as suggested by Dr. James Dobson in his book Love Must Be Tough. That was three weeks ago, and there has been no reply.

My thoughts are that "we" are not in the forefront of his mind--he's most likely focused on retirement, medical issues, etc. and has put "us" on the back burner, for now.

Does anybody have any insight into why he might not have called for the past 6 months and emails stopped a month ago? Do we just continue this long separation and "facade" until the end of the 20-year military cycle?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

MilitaryWifeAK said:


> Below if my very first posting to this site, today! After a few comments, I was told that MEN should probably respond to help me understand male psychology and what my husband could be thinking. Here goes:
> 
> I'm new to this forum and wanted some feedback from others.
> 
> ...


AK:
I stand by my posted answer to your question on my thread. But I am appalled that he is a "counselor." That, in and of itself, is beyond reprehension.

Hang in there and keep us posted of any new developments. Hopefully some of my compatriots will be commenting on your story! May God truly bless you and yours!


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

He has not called you for six months?????

Hang in there and don't sign anything. Seriously.


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## MilitaryWifeAK (Jun 25, 2012)

Iamaga: That's right--no phone call for six months. He knows the stress I'm under, caring for my elderly parents, and was only emailing weekly with "friendly chatter." After I sent the "you're free to go" email, simply stating that I couldn't hold him against his will if he wanted out of the marriage (and hoping he would read that I'm taking a step back), I am going on four full weeks with no response.

We have devoted 19 years to raising six children (4 his, 1 mine, 1 ours) and are at the threshold of having time together, with an empty nest. I was just hoping that he was going through the "is this all there is to life?" scenario and would become lonely. Being "the left", I have no idea what goes through the mind of "the leaver."

I'm open to any insight. I don't understand "manspeak" and would just like to write down some of the things he's said for interpretation.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Oh, my dear, this is not manspeak. Get a lawyer. Call your Family Support Group. Make plans.

I'm so sorry. You seem like a lovely person. But I do think you have been dumped.

PM me anytime. I'm not military, but I worked for 9 yrs at Fort Hood, so I do get the whole ethos. And I wish you well.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

MilitaryWifeAK, I'm sorry to say is seems he has moved on. He has gone no contact with you, so he doesn't have to deal with the situation. No contact = No guilt. Could there be someone else? If there is, and they are also military, he knows that can cause him problems. He will keep you in the dark about that. Have you contacted family support or a Chaplin to find out from his command as to whats going on? 

Also do you know what your entitled to, as far as support, medical and pension. Also all marital assets. Don't give any thing up. 

I agree with Arbitrator, it more than disgusting that a therapist would treat his own family this way. That's why I think there is someone else and he's using his knowledge and position to manipulate the situation. 

I would stop contacting him. Go on with your life as if he is only a source of financial and benefit support for your family. Contact a lawyer too. Sorry, he's pretty much a coward to turn his back of his family that way. Good riddance. You've been separated a loooong time, now its time to take care of you.


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## MilitaryWifeAK (Jun 25, 2012)

anchorwatch said:


> MilitaryWifeAK, I'm sorry to say is seems he has moved on. He has gone no contact with you, so he doesn't have to deal with the situation. No contact = No guilt. Could there be someone else? If there is, and they are also military, he knows that can cause him problems. He will keep you in the dark about that. Have you contacted family support or a Chaplin to find out from his command as to whats going on?
> 
> Also do you know what your entitled to, as far as support, medical and pension. Also all marital assets. Don't give any thing up.
> 
> ...


Thanks, AnchorWatch. Strange thing--he IS a Chaplain!! That's why I have to keep everything on the "down low" and not blow his cover. He will lose his job and I will lose my benefits. I'd just rather have him back and/or at LEAST try to work on things.


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## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

I don't entirely understand what he did in the military, but I have a feeling, he is unstable psychologically. 

Most of the troops, (I employed a few, so I know) are told they are going to Iraq for 12 months. Then they are suppose to go home, but instead, are told they will be going back. 
Some guys have served 3, 4, 5 tours. That is a long time. 

You can't have a military that has men, getting 3+ tours of duty like that, and have them not develop psychological problems. Guys can't take seeing their buddy shot from a sniper, or the armored hummer full of friends getting blown up by an IED in the road, or see his best friend have his legs blown off by a suicide bomber. 
And I don't want to sound like a misogynist here, but you don't hear about women having these problems very often in the military because women aren't put in danger (usually, I know there are exceptions) when they are in the military. They are given office jobs, while the men goes out and fights. I am not being sexist, just what other soldiers have told me. 

If he has had a lot of active duty, he could likely have post-traumatic-stress-syndrome. PTSD. I know a few guys that do, and they are a mess. They wake up at night screaming, they are set off by different sounds, and they have trouble adjusting to normal life because they don't see the purpose to it. 

So I am betting he has a psychological problem, and that is really starting to take a toll on him. 
I don't believe in counseling, except for men that absolutely need it. And Men that have been in the military should be given counseling free of charge, and I'll gladly pay my taxes so they can.


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## MilitaryWifeAK (Jun 25, 2012)

Juicer: I think you have your finger on the pulse of things more than I could even imagine. You're probably right, so follow up with advice for me, PLEASE!!

He has done 5 tours overseas, both Iraq & Afghanistan. He said the last two tours "just about did me in." As a Chaplain, he has done more memorial services for soldiers than I care to think of.

He has just been diagnosed with a somewhat serious medical condition, and it hurts my heart so much to think he wouldn't want me to be there for him. He emailed me and told me about this, but I haven't heard from him since then.

I have sent him the "I can't hold you against your will if you want out of the marriage, so you're free to go" email, recommended by Dr. James Dobson. He told me at the beginning of the separation that the issues were me, the military, and the deployments.

I just ache for him and fear that our marriage will just be one in a long line of "laundry" strung out on the highway.

Do I pray and wait? Do I continue to be patient? Others say I should get a lawyer now, but I truly think in my heart of hearts that patience is the best virtue to have. Yes, it's been 16 months, but I'm willing to wait. After all, I'm not getting any younger and don't have hopes of another relationship at my age.


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## Paradise (Dec 16, 2011)

I wouldn't jump to conclusion about an affair just yet. A lot of men have problems when their careers are coming to an end and if this man has done that many tours of duty and been around as much death and destruction as he has over the years then it is bound to take its toll. If I was a betting man I would guess that this man is somewhere very deep in thought. Between medical issues, PTSD, career ending, etc. he may very well just be trying to figure some things out. 

Militarywife, do you have any way of contacting him? For example, calling his superiors and asking that he contact you immediately? Or, flying/driving to wherever he is stationed and just getting face to face closure? You have sat and waited around for a long time and been a dutiful wife. You deserve closure. You deserve for him to look you in the eyes and tell you what is going on so that you can move on.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

I don’t understand that “You’re free to go email” at all. Not one little bit. If I got one of those it would leave me totally and utterly convinced that my wife didn’t want me, much less prepared to even fight for me.

And what’s the point anyway? It’s a free country and a man is free to do what he pleases as longs as he stays within the law. He doesn’t need an email from his wife to tell him that!

I’ve a feeling your email to him communicated the exact opposite of what was in your heart and mind. If I read “You’re free to go” I don’t think anything else in the email would have remotely got through to me. I would have just assumed you are done and dusted with me and wanted nothing at all to do with me.


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## MilitaryWifeAK (Jun 25, 2012)

AFEH: The idea of the email was to convey my love for him, remind him that I didn't twist his arm or bribe him to marry me--he did it of his own free will. Now, he says he wants out of the marriage and I have to let him go.

This is supposed to "open the cage door" for spouses who feel trapped in their marriage. I didn't want to post the whole email here, because it's private. But, others have told me that it was the right thing to do. It's like a "hands off" email and should make him feel as thought I've backed off a bit and am not pressuring him to give me answers.

I think we all know that email isn't always the best thing to use, when trying to relay messages that are emotional. Something just gets lost in the translation. I don't know when/if I'll see him again and am just trusting God to put all the pieces in place, however that may turn out.

Thanks for your response!

PS  The idea of the "you're free to go" is to maybe change their way of thinking from "how do I get out of this mess" to "do I really want out of this?" I'm hopeful!


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## MilitaryWifeAK (Jun 25, 2012)

Paradise: Your thoughts are somewhat the same as mine. He is a deep introvert and I, too, think he is deep in thought about a lot of things.

Because of his position, and I've told him this, I will NOT ruin his career. He is very close to retirement, and what good would it do. I'm not one for revenge, and it wouldn't do anything but hurt both of us. Sometimes, wisdom DOES come with age.

I have never jumped to the conclusion that he's having an affair, although he may be. If he is, that's between him and God. There are no Biblical grounds for divorce, so that's why I have a hard time wondering why this separation is necessary. If he is wanting to get his thoughts together and "figure things out", more power to him.

I appreciate your thoughts; it seems we're somewhat on the same page of thinking.

Thanks for your post!


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

MilitaryWifeAK said:


> AFEH: The idea of the email was to convey my love for him, remind him that I didn't twist his arm or bribe him to marry me--he did it of his own free will. Now, he says he wants out of the marriage and I have to let him go.
> 
> This is supposed to "open the cage door" for spouses who feel trapped in their marriage. I didn't want to post the whole email here, because it's private. But, others have told me that it was the right thing to do. It's like a "hands off" email and should make him feel as thought I've backed off a bit and am not pressuring him to give me answers.
> 
> ...


You asked for a man’s opinion, but you brushed me aside! Was that because I didn’t give you the answer you wanted to hear? Others have told you it’s the right thing to do. And because they agree with you, you’re sticking with it because it makes you right. Right?

What if the guy’s got a fatal illness and he doesn’t want to put you through the hassle of taking care of him and watching him die? What if he’s going to be an invalid and doesn’t want to be a burden to you? What if he thinks the service will take care of him and you’d be much better cutting a new life by yourself? What if he thinks you are incapable of taking care of him in his illness?

How would your email read to him then?

PS: He knows he married you of his own free will! Why you thought it necessary to tell him those things is way beyond me.


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## MilitaryWifeAK (Jun 25, 2012)

AFEH: My apologies if you felt brushed aside. That was never my intention.

I appreciate your opinion. You're right--I asked for it! My thoughts were that explaining the intent of the letter to you might help explain my reasons for sending it--I guess not.

Even though I'm hurting intensely, I'm not looking to hear just what I want to hear. I'm just having a hard time understanding his actions when some of our conversation have given me hope. If he's just dropping crumbs, I'm finished picking them up!

Again, thanks for responding. Keep it up!!

By the way, I would welcome the opportunity to respond to his email regarding any of the issues to do with his health. I married "in sickness and in health", and one word he WOULD use to describe me is LOYAL.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

My advice. Write him a letter (not an email) as follows:

Hi Honey (or whatever term you use),

What’s up? I really want to know everything.

Love ……..


Just leave it at that and see what comes back.


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## MilitaryWifeAK (Jun 25, 2012)

Actually, that's a great idea!!!!

According to the advice I've read, I shouldn't do anything after I sent the "you're free to go" email. This is what confuses me. I'm educated, intelligent, but can't fight my way out of this brown, paper bag. ARGH!!!!!!

When will you be penning your first book?????


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

MilitaryWifeAK said:


> Actually, that's a great idea!!!!
> 
> According to the advice I've read, I shouldn't do anything after I sent the "you're free to go" email. This is what confuses me. I'm educated, intelligent, but can't fight my way out of this brown, paper bag. ARGH!!!!!!
> 
> When will you be penning your first book?????


Sometimes we have to take ourselves (our ego) out of the equation of the dynamic with another person.

You are talking here (on TAM) from a somewhat ego centric position. Your husband will know that about you. Hence the letter with nothing about you in it. And all about him. It gives him space to talk without being limited by your projections, your fears and other things.

I’m guessing such a letter would indicate a massive change in you, or at the very least the beginning of one.

If you want to know how to get away from your ego when you want to, read Awareness by Anthony de Mello. He’s a very enlightened guy and a great teacher. But you do need to be ready for him, perhaps you are.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Hi MW,I don't get the impression from your posts that you feel your husband would be the type of man to cheat,and the truth is my thinking is more along the lines of Juicer.Maybe your H is a bit more broken inside then he let on to you and in his pain he feels this is the best solution,especially if he feels it's hopeless and he'll only be a burden to you.I know he's a chaplain and probably used to giving good advice,but the funny thing is that sometimes people don't listen to their own good advice.Pain of the soul is hard to deal with and kind of muddies up the mind.

When I was young and on a farm we had a female German shepherd that ran in front of a sickle mower and had one of her paws cut off.She just took off running and it took us the longest time to find her.She was in a little sheltered spot in some bushes dying alone.We thought she was surely gone but we rushed her to the vets and they managed to save her.When she mended she wasn't the same,but she sure was the fastest and happiest 3 legged dog I've ever seen.Though I'm in no way equating your situation to this,I think a lot of people in their fear and pain feel they may be too broken to ever be mended.

Maybe in your case the email wasn't enough and you're going to have to reach out in a firmer and more direct way.You strike me as a loving and caring wife and I hope whatever the real reason is for the silence,that it doesn't cause you to suffer greatly.Take care and God bless.


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## MilitaryWifeAK (Jun 25, 2012)

TBT: Thanks for this! I want to reach out to him so badly, but I hesitate because it makes him run the other way. He can't give me answers for what's going on, and I just don't think he's ready to talk about it.

After being called "egotistical" by another member, it feels better to receive a more non-volatile response. Hubby reached out to me via email to tell me of his sickness, yet he won't allow me to come to his aid. He is the type who doesn't want a fuss made over him when he's sick, and I'm try to respect his wishes while, all the time, I'm worried sick about him.

I have read so much about noticing what men DO rather than what they SAY...his actions match his words that he needs time. We aren't even legally separated; we're separated "on some level", according to him. It's just all so confusing.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

MilitaryWifeAK said:


> TBT: Thanks for this! I want to reach out to him so badly, but I hesitate because it makes him run the other way. He can't give me answers for what's going on, and I just don't think he's ready to talk about it.
> 
> After being called "egotistical" by another member, it feels better to receive a more non-volatile response. Hubby reached out to me via email to tell me of his sickness, yet he won't allow me to come to his aid. He is the type who doesn't want a fuss made over him when he's sick, and I'm try to respect his wishes while, all the time, I'm worried sick about him.
> 
> I have read so much about noticing what men DO rather than what they SAY...his actions match his words that he needs time. We aren't even legally separated; we're separated "on some level", according to him. It's just all so confusing.


Just for the record, I did not call you egotistical. That would be like calling you a narcissist, big headed or arrogant when in fact I thought none of those things about you. Far from it. And yes, that would have been offensive.

I spoke of being ego centric which is different all together. And I also showed you a way to maybe get out of your H what truly ails him.

But can you not see now how your ego got in the way of what I was trying to communicate to you? I guessed the same thing happens with your H and I tried to help you change that and really listen to him. Give him space to be heard, if indeed that is part of the problem.

Now I could say that you twisted my words from ego centric to egotistical to suit your own ends. But I don’t believe that to be the case. What I do believe to be the case is that you do not understand the difference between ego centric and egotistical. You think they are one and the same thing. They are not.


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## MilitaryWifeAK (Jun 25, 2012)

OOPS! I did confuse the two terms. I know my posts sound like it's "all about me", but I'm just trying to do my part. Not one time have I felt vengeful and usually poke most of the blame at myself.


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## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

MilitaryWifeAK said:


> Juicer: I think you have your finger on the pulse of things more than I could even imagine. You're probably right, so follow up with advice for me, PLEASE!!
> 
> He has done 5 tours overseas, both Iraq & Afghanistan. He said the last two tours "just about did me in." As a Chaplain, he has done more memorial services for soldiers than I care to think of.
> 
> ...


Well, if you want to know what he is going through, try watching:
The Hurt locker
Band of Brothers
Band of Brothers: Pacific
Flags of our Fathers
Generation X

Because, there, you will see how gritty war can get. He is a soldier, and my god, 5 TOURS?! 
It is a not a question of whether or not he has a psychological problem. It is a question of which. He has probably seen more death and been to more funerals than anyone else can probably claim. 

Now, I have a feeling, and from the guys I employ telling me this, he is having trouble adjusting to life. He realizes, life is going to stop for him. 
One thing I love about The Hurt Locker, is the opening scene. It says "The rush of battle is a potent and often lethal addiction, for war is a drug." Guys I have talked to don't want to retire. They want to keep fighting, because they love that thrill, that adrenaline rush. 
This man will view our life as meaningless. (I am going from what I have seen guys do, not from personal experiences) and he'll probably lash out. 

I would suggest giving him time, and love. Try to imagine him coming off a drug that he has been using for the past 5 years. Be it heroin, crack, steroids, marijuana, whatever, it will have taken a toll on him. Be it physical or mental, there will be a toll. 

I would honestly suggest you tell him to get to counseling. That man, after 5 tours, needs it. I wish the military would pay for it, but I doubt they will. 
And pray for him, comfort him, just understand, he is likely not normal. It takes a long time for these guys to get back into a different life. 
From what I have seen, some do it in 6 weeks. Others do it in 18 months. Just give him time. That is all I can really say.


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## MilitaryWifeAK (Jun 25, 2012)

This is such an eye opener, Juicer. You'll never know how much I appreciate your taking the time to write this response. I know the thought you put into it and appreciate your sincerity!!


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

MilitaryWifeAK said:


> OOPS! I did confuse the two terms. I know my posts sound like it's "all about me", but I'm just trying to do my part. Not one time have I felt vengeful and usually poke most of the blame at myself.


I haven’t a clue what’s going on between you and your H. I think Juicer’s post an excellent guide in the right direction.

But take stock for a minute or two. Here on TAM with me as a total stranger to you, you went from asking when I’m to pen my first book to calling me volatile in less time than it takes to snap your fingers.

And all based on a misunderstanding. You and I don’t have any history and no emotional connection except for that in a minute thing that occurs in forums. It is exceedingly different with your husband.

Now I am able to predict that you as a person will not take the time to understand my intent, much less my meaning. But within that you are very quick to apologise when you make a mistake. Which is good.

Just like me your H will be predicting your behaviour based on his past experience of you. He knows for certain there will be misunderstandings and that you will jump to conclusions and he will have to “explain” things. And that you will apologise. And just maybe he feels that he doesn’t get through to you and to try is way too high a mountain for him to climb.

And so he gave up.


Of course it's all a hypothesis designed to give you a different perspective.


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## MilitaryWifeAK (Jun 25, 2012)

AFEH: You're very intuitive, but you knew that already.

Yes, I think my husband has tried to get through to me. He will be the first to tell you that he doesn't communicate well, although he is an extremely brilliant man.

Yes, I am quick to apologize. When I'm wrong, I'm wrong and not afraid to admit it.

I think I mentioned before that I'm an extravert; he's an introvert. As an extravert, I have to continually remind myself to LISTEN, although I have found it difficult to take advice from him in the past. To him, I'm supposed to be everything he wants, not a project to fix. That part of him always hurt me, because I lived with a Mother who expected perfectionism all the time. It has ruined my self esteem.

I don't know what your "vocation" is in life, but you sure have some great perceptions. I'm willing to listen, if you're willing to help me!


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

I think you will get a lot out of the book and you may well be absolutely surprised about the length and detail of the content of the letter he returns should you ask him “What’s up” in the letter I recommended.


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