# The Flirty Neighbor



## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

Our single neighbor came for a visit. My husband was in his chair and I was in mine. My kids sat next to me on my side, neighbor was by husband's chair. Whenever something 'funny' was said, she'd laugh and slap his leg. They both spoke the same foreign language and conversed in that got awhile. My husband went to bed and she stayed up and visited with me. It's not like my husband was all over her or they or she ignored me, but I was uncomfortable. I felt like the visitor for awhile. I am generally not a jealous person, but I do pay attention to my guy and am not naive. My adult son asked me, 'gee mom when was the last time he paid that close attention to you when you talked', and I have to say I agree. Not like we are huge socializers, but neighbor is looking at opening a home day care and our kids need morning care for an hour a day. He's super excited about deal (she's close, kids like her and decently priced). I would drop off he'd pick up. I'm not sure what I think of deal. I'm not sure if i want to spend lots of time with her. Suggestions?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

He can find a man who speaks his native language and there are plenty of other daycare facilities. She can go find another married man to get friendly with. I would not invite her back.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Go with your gut. I think it's very rude for people to speak in a different language in front of someone that cannot. He should have replied in the language that all parties know and had she continued speaking in the other language, he should have said something like "I know it's great to be able to speak in [native tongue] but let's not leave out golfergirl!"

If she was flirty and they excluded you that way, why give him the chance to see her so much?


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

I agree with the other ladies.Go with your gut.You felt excluded.It was so obvious even your son noticed,that to me is the writing on the wall.
This woman needs to stay away.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Be honest with your husband and have a conversation about your feelings and boundaries.

And then watch your borders carefully.

There's not reason to completely shun another human being because of one interaction ASSUMING it was innocent. BUT her behavior and his reaction COULD be the seed to something bad.

There's too much trying to figure out what's going on and not enough actual talking.

I'd hope if you said to your husband. "I'm glad so&so is opening the daycare, it's always great to know the person who's caring for your child, but I have to be honest. I wasn't 100% comfortable with the interaction the other day. I felt like she was being a little too touchy feely for my comfort level. At first I was just writing it off, but even "son" made a comment about how the conversation between you two seemed a little more attentive than usual. So I'm not feeling totally comfortable with it. Can we establish some boundaries with "Neighbor" so I feel a little more confident with our relationship with her?" 

If you notice, you're owning the issue. This isn't about what he did wrong or how she acted, it's all about how you feel and how you interpreted the interaction. Now his first response will be to downplay it and say its silly or something along those lines. This is where you can assert yourself AND make your husband feel loved and wanted (two big wins).

"I know, I know but still..you're my man and I'm not going to let any other woman get a piece of my action. So can you help me with this one?" Then grab his ass as he walks away or something on those lines. PS I bet he listens more intently to you the rest of that day.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

EnjoliWoman said:


> Go with your gut. I think it's very rude for people to speak in a different language in front of someone that cannot. He should have replied in the language that all parties know and had she continued speaking in the other language, he should have said something like "I know it's great to be able to speak in [native tongue] but let's not leave out golfergirl!"
> 
> If she was flirty and they excluded you that way, why give him the chance to see her so much?


Yeah I hadn't touched on that issue. I totally agree with the speaking another language. It's rude if it goes on for an extended period. But I'd go in stages. Address the physical boundaries first, and then address the issue of the language if it continues.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Agree with your approach.

Just as a general man tip, I know from my marriage that it's easy to feel unappreciated. When someone else hoos and has about how funny you are, the attention can be very exciting.

Don't also forget during this that maybe your husband would like the same from you. He may feel unappreciated.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

I agree with the others....

I do not understand why women cannot put boundaries up...if I was single and was talking to a married neighborhood couple I immediately would be very careful about how I was acting/appearing, etc. I just do not want any women to ever think I am hitting on their man....that would be so uncomfortable.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Then he should tell her that directly instead of flirting shamelessly in another language with the neighbor.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

I am curious...does she have kids? I ask because generally if someone is single why open a home based daycare...majority of time that is for married women with children who want to stay at home with their child as much as they can but still want a little extra income coming in. Even if she was a single mother...a home based daycare is not the most stable of incomes for a women in that situation to have.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

It'd be awesome if every wife and husband had a flirty neighbor. So many act as if their spouse is the lowest form of life. It'd be handy to be reminded that others would love to pick through our recycle bin.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

golfergirl said:


> I am generally not a jealous person, but I do pay attention to my guy and am not naive. * My adult son asked me, 'gee mom when was the last time he paid that close attention to you when you talked',* and I have to say I agree.


Firstly I think its grossly disrespectful of an outsider to come into your house, converse with your husband in another language, and him not try to include you in the conversation by interpreting what they are speaking about to you, so that at least you could share in the fun.

Even your eldest son took notice of their body language.

The question is how do you communicate this to your husband without coming across as jealous and insecure or him labelling you as controlling?

Its almost like a " catch 22." Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
But this is _your_ husband , _your_ marriage and _your _and family, better to be damned if you do.

On a side note.
I wonder if the OP was a husband instead of a wife , how much different the replies and reactions to this post would have been?
Just a thought..


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

I'd react the same.Doesn't make a difference.A marital threat is a marital threat.


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## canjad80 (Oct 31, 2011)

I must admit that when I started reading this thread, I had a brief "Holy s***!" moment. I was in a *very* similar situation on the weekend, except that I'm the supposedly "flirty" neighbour! 

In the case of the OP, I agree with the others. You were uncomfortable with his behaviour and even your son noticed it. It needs to be addressed. I really like Dad&Hubby's approach - gets your point across without being extreme or irrational.



highwood said:


> I do not understand why women cannot put boundaries up...if I was single and was talking to a married neighborhood couple I immediately would be very careful about how I was acting/appearing, etc. I just do not want any women to ever think I am hitting on their man....that would be so uncomfortable.


I agree with you to a point. I always modify my behaviour and tone down the flirting/teasing out of respect for the marriage. However, it's not entirely the responsibility of the single person to set the boundaries. They shouldn't have to be spending what's supposed to be a fun social event, tip-toeing around someone else's insecurities. They also shouldn't be presumed to be chasing after married men just because they're unattached.

I don't want to hijack this discussion with my own situation, but I'll mention this to illustrate the point. This weekend, the husband and I did absolutely nothing to warrant the reaction we got from his wife. Even her two best friends who were at the party told me that it had nothing to do with me and she was just being a "bitter shrew." It doesn't matter how careful you are as a single woman, someone is always going to think you're after their man.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

canjad80 said:


> I agree with you to a point. I always modify my behaviour and tone down the flirting/teasing out of respect for the marriage. However, it's not entirely the responsibility of the single person to set the boundaries. They shouldn't have to be spending what's supposed to be a fun social event, tip-toeing around someone else's insecurities. They also shouldn't be presumed to be chasing after married men just because they're unattached.
> 
> I don't want to hijack this discussion with my own situation, but I'll mention this to illustrate the point. This weekend, the husband and I did absolutely nothing to warrant the reaction we got from his wife. Even her two best friends who were at the party told me that it had nothing to do with me and she was just being a "bitter shrew." It doesn't matter how careful you are as a single woman, someone is always going to think you're after their man.


What is your purpose for flirting and teasing?


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Personally, I wouldn't get into any discussion of it. There'd be a simple statement, "I didn't like feeling excluded so we won't be associating with her socially or sending business her way." Discussing my feelings is too likely to be perceived as a criticism of him, so I wouldn't go there and invite argument. Plus, he's probably smart enough to figure out what excluded meant, even if he didn't think he was doing anything wrong.

I've had a couple of these situations arise, even though my husband makes it a point to include me. When they happen, a simple statement like this has resolved it without him feeling like he's being blamed for something, but if I saw that he started thinking along those lines, I'd also reassure him he'd done nothing wrong.


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## ClimbingTheWalls (Feb 16, 2013)

My take on it is that if your husband was that thrilled by her company he would not have gone to bed early and left you two together.

Some cultures are just more "touchy feely" than others, so the leg slapping may really not have meant all that much.

The novelty of speaking another language for a change may have been what was holding your husband's attention.

Also, I have noticed that my husband is pretty much fascinated by anyone other than me at times.  I think it is a novelty thing and try not to take it personally.

I think it would be a mistake to say anything to your husband other than that you felt left out because they did not speak in English and that you really don't want that to happen again.

If you want rid of this woman then I think you need to find ways of avoiding her without spilling your guts to your husband at this stage.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> Firstly I think its grossly disrespectful of an outsider to come into your house, converse with your husband in another language, and him not try to include you in the conversation by interpreting what they are speaking about to you, so that at least you could share in the fun.
> 
> Even your eldest son took notice of their body language.
> 
> ...


I think dadandhubby did good job of it with his approach. Sometimes hard to keep our own emotions in check and not lash out in the moment.


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## canjad80 (Oct 31, 2011)

SaltInWound said:


> What is your purpose for flirting and teasing?


It's a normal part of human interaction and it promotes bonding.

To be clear I'm not talking about flirting with intent. It's just verbal banter and double entendres. The typical, mildly suggestive, humorous conversation that happens whenever mixed groups of non-familial adults congregate.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

I think dad&hubby is an approach I like. It wasn't like she left and I am thinking EA or wow she is chasing my man. I thought hmmm I better be alert to this. It is also a wake up call to appreciate who I have. 
She is widowed and has a school age son. Big insurance payout on hubby's death (they were separated at the time but got insurance). I think she's very lonely and sometimes that could lower someone's boundaries being that lonely. I do appreciate the advice and might follow dad&hubby. I would say the thing that set off my warning was the giggle and leg slap. That's something I would do in days of flirting and shortly after that hubby went to bed. Maybe it made him uncomfortable too. He has pretty strong boundaries usually and approached right I think he would get it. There was something just uncomfortable.
To other poster 
I personally don't like innuendo - it makes me think someone is trying to bring up a sex thought and tie themselves to it (when a guy tries that 'flirt' with me). It does opposite to me - doesn't make me laugh or turn me on I just think creepy. I'm just weird that way I guess.
I'm no pride or jealous shrew. I don't have a whole bunch of rules and don't get annoyed if a woman speaks to my man. I have pretty healthy self esteem and think screw you I you don't want to be here. That said, I do need to realize if I am too complacent and might need to realize what I have and show appreciation a little more often. And make him feel like the man that I am worried that a woman took notice of him and is chatting him up. He does need to know that I do care about him and worry about losing him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

You didn't say how well you know this woman. She may have thought you were good enough friends that she could behave playfully (the leg slap). 

In any event, I wouldn't be happy with husband picking up the children and 'bonding' with this woman on a daily basis. Personally, I've never felt the need to 'bond' with members of the opposite sex who are not related to me. Double entendres and mildly suggestive remarks are considered flirting with intent by many people. They are not appropriate if either of the people is married.

But, hey, if a couple wants to engage in that behavior with each other, more power to them.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

Dad&Hubby said:


> There's too much trying to figure out what's going on and not enough actual talking.


Amen, brother.

The son's statement is a huge red flag. It isn't just the husband and wife's relationship at issue here. When the children are watching a father pay more attention to a flirty neighbor than to his wife - so much that the children SAY something about it - life lessons are being taught to them. The son is going to be keeping his eye on this so how the two of you work it out is important to teach the right lesson here. 

The laughing together and touching, along with the private conversations in another language in front of you... this woman knows exactly what she is doing. Your gut instinct picked up on it, and you should trust that. 

I am really curious about the husband going to bed. I am going to infer he knew their interaction was being noticed by everyone. Continuing on would have made it all the more an issue whereas leaving was the discreet option. The question now is how they will interact when they are not supervised. 

She will be giggling like a schoolgirl and touching him. So now the only question is whether he lets that progress to having his hands down her panties.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Golfergirl,

You've been at TAM for awhile, so you should know this. People here are especially paranoid about cheating spouses, and pull out their weapons when they see any "threat" to the marriage. 

It sounds pretty darned innocent to me. A neighbor comes over, they have a friendly conversation, then he goes to bed and she talks to you. What is the real problem here? So your son pointed out that he paid close attention to her. Maybe that's because they speak the same language! I'm not sure what else your "gut" is getting if that's all there was to it. 

Unless you have other reasons not to trust your husband, I wouldn't worry about it. At all.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

Theseus said:


> A neighbor comes over, they have a friendly conversation, then he goes to bed and she talks to you.


Look how you censored every single item that people have correctly identified as an issue. Re-wrote her story. 



> So your son pointed out that he paid close attention to her. Maybe that's because they speak the same language! I'm not sure what else your "gut" is getting if that's all there was to it.


The sharp eye will see how you re-wrote this too. The son did not say she paid close attention. The son said _he paid more attention to this woman than he does to his wife_. 

You are not addressing the OP's situation. You changed the story to minimize all of the things she rightfully needs to worry about.


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## Laila8 (Apr 24, 2013)

KathyBatesel said:


> Personally, I wouldn't get into any discussion of it. *There'd be a simple statement, "I didn't like feeling excluded so we won't be associating with her socially or sending business her way."* Discussing my feelings is too likely to be perceived as a criticism of him, so I wouldn't go there and invite argument. Plus, he's probably smart enough to figure out what excluded meant, even if he didn't think he was doing anything wrong.


I love this. Straightforward, no-nonsense, and shows strength.


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## Quant (Jul 15, 2013)

My wife would probably tell her to leave or face the consequences, that is what you should do mate guarding is important in all monogamous mammals.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Wiserforit said:


> You are not addressing the OP's situation. You changed the story to minimize all of the things she rightfully needs to worry about.


The point is to give a different perspective. I didn't leave out anything important. She was laughing? Slapping his thigh? Are any of those things wrong or unusual?

My original advice to the OP still stands. Unless you have other reasons not to trust your husband, I wouldn't worry about it. At all.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Whatever this other woman was doing, she wasn't putting a gun to the man's head. Either he's her man or he isn't. If he's her's, she has nothing to worry about. If he isn't, does it matter which woman flirts with him? I take for granted other guys are going to hit on my wife. She's beautiful! I don't worry because I know she's not going to give any of them the time of day. I've had over 10 years to prove my worth to her. If some clown can just waltz in and steal her from me, I haven't done much with those 10 years.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

I'm not someone who has been a betrayed wife or a wayward wife. I always feel the need to put these qualifiers on TAM because advice is so often dismissed as paranoia because of the number of marriages here with infidelity as the biggest problem.

I say go with your intuition. Women often have good intuition about other women's actions. It's also more than your own intution since your child noticed and commented on it too.

I can fluently speak a language my husband can't. I wouldn't speak to others in it when he's present because it's rude to leave him out of a conversation in his home and exclude him. Your husband may not have intentionally shut you out by talking to her in that other language, but you should definitely draw his attention to how you don't like it when he speaks to others in it ESPECIALLY when those people CAN speak English well. Nip that particular issue in the bud now. And if she starts talking to him in that language again, you need to have a witty comeback/quip to stop it quick. Don't let it go on and seethe in silence.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

Theseus said:


> The point is to give a different perspective.


Changing the story is not giving a different perspective.




> I didn't leave out anything important.


That's calling us stupid. It wasn't random chance that you left out the alarming parts. 




> She was laughing? Slapping his thigh? Are any of those things wrong or unusual?


You proved to us that they were important to YOU by leaving them out in order to minimize her actions. 

Now you are trying to isolate them instead of taking them in context. There is a big difference between someone laughing once in an evening and someone laughing at every little thing and slapping his thigh every time. Speaking in another language, etc.

You also can't say that the woman staying and talking to the wife is proof her intentions are good. That is exactly what a manipulative woman would do.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

Theseus said:


> Unless you have other reasons not to trust your husband, I wouldn't worry about it. At all.


I probably wouldn't lose sleep over it if he had never had previous indiscretions, but regardless of past history, I wouldn't let it slide away unrecognized as a potential problem.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

If the husband did indeed have previous indiscretions , then that will complicate things a lot more.
Therin lies the problem when these things happen.
If the relationship was always good and trust had never been broken, then this would not be a big issue to the OP.

Looks like she's between a rock and a hard place.
Husband's previous indiscretion , vs " flirty " neighbour's lack of discretion, and perceived intention.
Not a nice position.

I think its best to just bring it up very tactfully with your husband.Be firm and honest about how you felt ,and judging from his reaction, if he's willing to see your position , then both of you could plan a way forward, and build trust in the process.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Wiserforit said:


> Changing the story is not giving a different perspective.


I didn't change anything. And is it necessary for every response to repeat the OP's original description verbatim? That would be rather redundant.

I simply don't see this neighbor's visit as a hostile attack on this marriage. At all. If the neighbor were male, and behaved the same way, I wouldn't see anything unusual about it. 



> You also can't say that the woman staying and talking to the wife is proof her intentions are good. That is exactly what a manipulative woman would do.


Without other evidence, that sounds awfully paranoid.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Wiserforit said:


> Changing the story is not giving a different perspective.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, exactly. The more the barracuda talks to the wife the more
1. the barracuda can say that she has tried to be friendly with the wife.
2. the more info that can turn into useful material against the wife that the barracuda can harvest
3. the more the husband can fool himself into rationalising that the barracuda wants to be friends to the marriage.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

Theseus said:


> I didn't change anything.


Denial much? Editing is by definition changing. 



> And is it necessary for every response to repeat the OP's original description verbatim? That would be rather redundant.


Strawman. Nobody has to repeat it at all. You didn't "repeat" it. You changed it. 



> I simply don't see this neighbor's visit as a hostile attack on this marriage. At all. If the neighbor were male, and behaved the same way, I wouldn't see anything unusual about it.


Then say that instead of changing the story. It is called "gaslighting" when you pretend the victim is perceiving the truth incorrectly. 



> Without other evidence, that sounds awfully paranoid.


Heh. Standard manipulative practice: to call the opponent crazy. So we have denial, strawman, gaslighting, and outright accusations of paranoia. Thanks! 

In the pickup artist book The Game, this tactic is specifically highlighted: feigning interest in associates of the target in order to provide cover for interest in the target. He even illustrates it with a diagram. 

Citing a tactic specifically discussed in a book on how to pick up people for sex isn't paranoia. It's a research result.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Wiserforit said:


> Heh. Standard manipulative practice: to call the opponent crazy. So we have denial, strawman, gaslighting, and outright accusations of paranoia. Thanks!


Wiseforit, I often agree with you, but this has gone off the deep end. There is also an argument tactic called "Reductio ad absurdum". Look it up. 

"Gaslighting" doesn't apply here because we only have a very short description of the incident. I can't tell the OP she is seeing things or not because I wasn't there. I simply gave my opinion based on the limited information I had here (as did everyone else). 

By that same logic, we could call it "gaslighting" whenever people giving advice here disagree with the OP. In fact, I can accuse *you* of gaslighting, since you are telling me I am missing things!

And I said your statement "sounds paranoid". I didn't call you crazy or accuse you of paranoia. There is a difference. Disagree with me, fine. Just tell me so. But please keep these kinds of wild exaggerations out of the discussion.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

Theseus said:


> Wiseforit, I often agree with you, but this has gone off the deep end. There is also an argument tactic called "Reductio ad absurdum". Look it up.


Quite familiar with it. I took logic in college and you apparently haven't. Show where I did that, exactly. 




> "Gaslighting" doesn't apply here because we only have a very short description of the incident.


Gaslighting has nothing to do with the length of the description. It has only to do with making someone doubt their perception via false information.

Like saying you changed nothing in a story when leaving out the alarming parts. My eyes watched you do that. 




> By that same logic, we could call it "gaslighting" whenever people giving advice here disagree with the OP.


No, I told you specifically your disagreement was fine, but to stop changing the story in order to support your argument. 



> And I said your statement "sounds paranoid".


There you go again! No, you said "AWFULLY paranoid". You have repeatedly used editing as a means of minimizing. 

But I have eyes in my own head and can see what you wrote. I don't have to listen to you changing what you wrote to pretend it was my imagination running wild. Accusing me of being AWFULLY paranoid is much stronger verbage than you are now revising through editing. 

"Who ya gonna trust - me, or your lying eyes"


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Wiserforit said:


> Quite familiar with it. I took logic in college and you apparently haven't. Show where I did that, exactly.




Because I disagree with you, you take it to the absurd extreme. Your own words: _"Standard manipulative practice: to call the opponent crazy_." Problem is, I didn't call anyone crazy. 




> Gaslighting has nothing to do with the length of the description. It has only to do with making someone doubt their perception via false information.


No reasonable person can seriously think I'm trying to make the OP doubt her own perception. She was there, I wasn't. Once again, I only give my opinion based on the limited information she gave us here. Calling this "gaslighting" is both a wild exaggeration and another reductio ad absurdum. 




> Like saying you changed nothing in a story when leaving out the alarming parts. My eyes watched you do that.


Like my eyes watched you accuse me of calling someone crazy when I didn't?

In any case, I don't consider those parts "alarming". That's the whole point here.

I know it may come as a shock, but sometimes people disagree with you. Deal with it.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

Well here is brief update since this situation. 

I did explain my discomfort to my husband like D&H suggested. I thought all was good and he seemed to understand. But he seemed to always be encouraging me to go to her place or invite her over - not necessarily including him. I don't have enough time for my good friends let alone someone I'm sketchy about. 

Then one day they had a conversation outside. She confessed to him she suffers from bi-polar. Next thing you know they planned a barbecue. So my husband was trying to send me over that evening to make formal arrangements. I refused to. A few days later she came to the gate and my husband invited her for a beer. Well it almost was a repeat of the same. Bending over , sitting with legs open in short shorts. She had quite a bit of wine, invited her teenage son over and next thing you know, my husband arranged to go golfing, him, my daughter's bf, my older son, and her teenage son.

The home day care discussion came up again and my husband wasn't discouraging it. She then confessed to me she had been addicted to cocaine a few years ago and lost custody of her son. Only got that back when her ex died. I'm thinking wtf. 

My husband was still pressuring for her to child care for us and for me to go over and visit. I'm thinking what is the worst babysitter nightmare???? Pedophile, abuse, neglect, drugs... In top 4 for sure. So I have a friend who worked in courts who confided she wasn't just addicted, she was arrested for dealing.

My husband was trying to defend her until I lost it. I told him how can he claim to love our kids and be willing to put them in harm's way. Said we'd be better off picking stranger off kijiji. She's confessing one of top fears parents have when choosing care giver.

So what is going on? What is wrong with my husband? He's turned it around on me focusing on me calling him bad parent. Since he agreed with me to keep distance, she's been here for drinks and he took her kid golfing. Even after drug addiction confession, he tried to push my friendship with her and still seems to consider her as child care provider. I'd hate to see him seeking out friendship if that's toning things down!

From my friend to my son to my daughter and my teenage babysitter, they all have approached me about inappropriate feelings without me saying a thing. I recognize blame shifting on his part and I'm baffled and annoyed. We aren't speaking / what's my next step?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

Holy crap! Sorry, first thing to come to mind after last post.

As for the drug thing... that's iffy. I wouldn't judge her too harshly for past mistakes. There's no indication she is still using, right? I'm sure there were agencies involved with her reunification with her son that ensured she was clean before he went back to her custody. I say this because I used to be an addict. But I've also been clean for almost a decade and would hate to be judged for what I did when I was younger. That is NOT the person I am today.

That aside, WTH is wrong with your H? Where is his respect for you? Why is he choosing this neighbor over you? and that is exactly what he is doing! You have let him know of your discomfort and he continues the behavior, steps it up a notch, and flaunts it in your face. PUT YOUR FOOT DOWN! As for the sitting, those are your kids too and he cannot make that decision alone. You said you would be dropping them off? Don't leave them there! Drop them at a sitter of your choice. Make it very clear that if your H wants to stay in this marriage, he is not to have contact with her. AT ALL! And then stick to that.


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## Miarosco (Sep 24, 2013)

Very wrong. I saw same things with my best friend. I was stupid about it. I ended up finding them in bed 1 night. They had 3 month affair


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

There are many issues which are red flags. The one I'd start with is the daycare issue as you owe that to your child. 

If you told your H that you knew a women (that he had not met yet) who was convenient and reasonable but she had a prior cocaine habit and is bi-polar what would his reaction be? My guess is "Honey, I'm sure there are other people or places who are just as convenient and reasonable who don't have these issues!"

If you agree that would normally be his response then somehow at some level he has some thoughts about this woman which are enough to impact his reasoning and judgment.

Work on that first and maybe that will create an opportunity for open communication about the other issues. The statement your son made is a red flag to me!


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Sounds like there's much more of an emotional attachment then you realize. It's common for two people in an EA to want their spouses to hang out. It's some sort of twisted psychological thing.

You need to set some clear boundaries here. Have you checked his phone/computer to see if they are texting or emailing? Have you checked his phone records?


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

golfergirl, sorry you're in this mess!

I don't see anything wrong with speaking up directly to BOTH your H and the neighbor.

To your H: "I don't choose YOUR friends for you and I would expect the same level of respect from you. I don't WANT to be friends with X! I've met her, more than once, spent time with her, talked with her, and I'm NOT INTERESTED in being friends with her. PERIOD! It's MY choice, not yours. Stop trying to push it. *I* decide who I spend time with and *I* decide who my friends are."

To X: "I'm extremely busy being a wife, mother, employee, friend, daughter, sister, etc. I am not looking to expand my circle of friends as I have little enough time now to do justice to the relationships I'm currently maintaining. I'm sure you can understand with 24hours in a day, we all have to pick and choose activities and relationships; something's got to give somewhere and I'm just not interested in pursuing a friendship."

With regard to the child care issue, tell him (as someone else pointed out), "If I chose a random child care provider on the next street over who happened to be bi-polar, a former cocaine addict, a former drug dealer who lost custody of her child and ONLY regained it because the custodial parent DIED, you'd think I was CRAZY! Yet YOU seem to think X is great because... WHY? Because she's the same ethnicity as you? Because her son likes golfing as much as you do? Because she's friendly? Please explain the *why* to me because I'm missing the part where she's a GREAT CHILD CARE PROVIDER!"

The real problem here is your H (not the neighbor, she's just the catalyst). He is TOTALLY disrespectful of your feelings as a woman, as his wife, and as a concerned mother to his children. WTH is his REAL problem here? Is he a former cheater (on you or previous SOs)?


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## WellyVamp (Apr 26, 2013)

If you're unhappy with the idea of this woman spending time with you and minding your children you have to lay down your boundaries and stay firm. You can choose your own friends and who looks after your children. 

Refuse, refuse, refuse!

Think immovable rock.

It sounds to me as though your husband is a bit keen on her or enjoys the attention. Sorry, but you need to step in and nip it in the bud.

I am probably a bit of a b1tch, but I would be laying down the law in your situation.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

When you say that he speaks the same foreign language as her, are they from the same country originally ?


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

manfromlamancha said:


> When you say that he speaks the same foreign language as her, are they from the same country originally ?


Not really. My husband lived there starting as a young boy for 25 years and she went in extended holiday as a teenager.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

Thanks for the replies. Not one person has said I'm out of my tree. I wouldn't say I 'judge her' on her prior drug use, it's just that given a choice, I would choose someone else. And I draw the line between addict and dealer. Especially dealer in mid 40's with young child. I find that different than someone with wild youth making errors. I'm mid 40's now and don't know how I could end up in situation to be addicted to cocaine.

I did state my case yesterday. I told my husband what my friend told me about charged with dealing (not gossip, she actually typed court documents). Then he started defending her talking about how he has had a friend who quit drugs, how my daughter's boyfriend used to smoke weed blah blah blah. That is when I stopped him and asked him, 'if we were to randomly hire a sitter, what would be the worse case scenario to find out? Pedophile, abusive, neglectful or drugs. Neighbor is telling us about this on a silver platter and still you keep pushing? Why do you want her so bad?' Then the blame shifting started. He went ape on my ass yelling at me that I was ok with it before. 

Then I said for someone who claims to love his children like nothing else, how could he do that to them. Then he says that he thought her teenage son was coming over and not her babysitting. He works nights to minimize out children's daycare and how dare I accuse him of not being a good dad. I also told him back in July, he agreed with me that my discomfort was warranted, and agreed to step it down. Since then they arranged a barbecue, he's pushing her as a sitter and he took her kid golfing. 

He claimed he had to invite him as he was sitting there and it would have been rude to not include him. 
I then told him if this was a single dad across the street with a daughter and the guy had her history what the hell would he think if it was me pushing things like he is. If I took time away from our young boys to spend a few hours with a neighbor child.

I've said all that. I'm calm, he has a tantrum. He says he didn't understand what I meant about drug dealer, he wants nothing to do with her and he wanted her son not her to babysit. I'm very disappointed with him to say the least.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Senior Citizen (Jul 25, 2013)

Avoid her like the plague! She was out of line.....is it necessary to touch your husband? Even your son noticed.......that speaks volumes to me! Out of the mouths of babes! I would probably talk to her up front and personal! But that's me....what's mine is mine.......


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

To your husband...
"Do you really want to continue down a path that will damage my trust and respect for you?" 

"Is it worth the cost to your marriage and family?"

"I am not ok with you seeing her and doing things with her!"

"I cannot believe that you would trouble your own home over another woman and her son. I want us to have nothing to do with them!"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

OP, it seems to me that you hold a lot of cards here. You're the breadwinner, but most likely you'll still get the kids.

Try to imagine a scenario in which
1. You make the ultimatum to your husband that he is no longer to have relations with her and outline excatly what that means that he no longer do with her.

If he cannot comply, then you file for divorce and take whatever you legally can take.

2. and with this women, given her criminal record with drugs, get a restraining order requiring that she neer be around your children again.

Let's have a think as to what the pros and cons of those two actions would be.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

I do feel strong. He's trying to back pedal. He denied sticking up for her. Then turns it around as poor him - says I think he's stupid. He's been nothing but loyal throughout 7 years marriage. I told him that's why it was so obvious that something was off. Previously he would clearly have put her in her place and here he goes for more. 
There is no reasoning with him at this time so I will let it calm down then discuss firmly with him. I hate this roller coaster. This is not the first time, just one of the first times on this topic. Sucks!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

Good luck to you and thanks for continuing to keep us updated. Just remember that your friends here at TAM are supporting and rooting for you!


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

Well things still awkward and uncomfortable at home. Flirty neighbor invited us over but declined. My H said he will jot be going - he has no interest in her. Funny how out of everything I said to him he picks and chooses bits to be insulted or twists the rest. I said how could someone who claims to love his sons like nothing else even consider leaving them with someone with her history. He says I called him a bad dad. Did I? Or did I just try to get him to explain the unexplainable. I'm going through one **** test after another. My brothers and sisters and I aren't very close. My sister had a work bee that the others went to help. He wants to send a nasty email to my one brother reminding him he has another sister (me) and call him nasty names. I don't know why. He doesn't know his email and that is his coward way of attack. Why does he want me on edge? He wanted me to flip on my teenage son because he made a rule years ago that when you leave, you don't come back until home to stay. My son came to trade jackets and he was upset I didn't make a stink. Who cares? If dogs barked and kids woke up I'd say something. When he asked why I didn't support him, I said I thought that rule is ridiculous. I can see making issue if the was happening all the time but once in a year. He got annoyed when I was asked to do my daughter a 20 minute favor. He score keeps. Says she never babysits for us (she offered but we had arrangements already). I am near the end of my rope. I need him to just go away for awhile so I can think. Maybe I should encourage affair with neighbor. Could be biggest favor she did for me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ManOhMan2013 (Aug 1, 2013)

golfergirl said:


> Our single neighbor came for a visit. My husband was in his chair and I was in mine. My kids sat next to me on my side, neighbor was by husband's chair. Whenever something 'funny' was said, she'd laugh and slap his leg. They both spoke the same foreign language and conversed in that got awhile. My husband went to bed and she stayed up and visited with me. It's not like my husband was all over her or they or she ignored me, but I was uncomfortable. I felt like the visitor for awhile. I am generally not a jealous person, but I do pay attention to my guy and am not naive. My adult son asked me, 'gee mom when was the last time he paid that close attention to you when you talked', and I have to say I agree. Not like we are huge socializers, but neighbor is looking at opening a home day care and our kids need morning care for an hour a day. He's super excited about deal (she's close, kids like her and decently priced). I would drop off he'd pick up. I'm not sure what I think of deal. I'm not sure if i want to spend lots of time with her. Suggestions?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


*If my wife talked and laughed to another man in another language I WOULD BE INSULTED AND PISSED OFF! My wife comes from another country. I don't mind her talking to women in her native tongue. To tell you the truth, that's rattling. But if she was laughing in another language to a neighbor male I would be highly insulted. Not only should you put your husband in his place, BUT YOUR FEMALE NEIGHBOR IS BEING VERY INSULTING TO YOU!! You should stand up right now and let each of them know that "knee slapping" and talking in their native tongue in front of you will NOT be acceptable.*


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## essy (Oct 21, 2013)

Totally understand how you feel...
Have a friend? like that...
laughs heaps when my guy makes a comment on something and slaps his leg too!
Would always eye him when a bunch of us are together chatting.. etc

So annoying.
Get her out of your life!


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

This is an update to the flirty neighbor. Before Christmas she was attempting to hang Christmas lights. We have a filmy curtain and (my older son told me) my husband was sitting there behind the curtain watching. He told me he thought he was hidden and he and the little guy (our 3 year old) were just watching. Well she turned, saw him through the window, waved. He was embarrassed at being caught watching. Well my husband sends our older boy (pretty much a man) out to help her. He gets out there and she says to him something about my husband getting caught watching and sending him out. I can't remember her wording but she knew my husband was 'creeping' and called him on it. Our older boy told me and my husband and kind if even made fun of my husband for getting caught being creepy. Well ever since then, the neighbor totally avoids my husband. We're talking head down, avoiding eye contact and going straight into the house if they are outside at same time. She is friendly with me - she will text the odd time and wave and chat if outside but totally avoids my husband. He is driven nuts by it. I rub it in saying he creeped her out by stalking her. He has mentioned asking her about what he did wrong but won't. I can't really read her - how she went from flirty to avoid. Only thing I can think is that she's 2 months sober and maybe realized she crossed a boundary and is just avoiding. Just wanted to give a little update.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

golfergirl said:


> This is an update to the flirty neighbor. Before Christmas she was attempting to hang Christmas lights. We have a filmy curtain and (my older son told me) my husband was sitting there behind the curtain watching. He told me he thought he was hidden and he and the little guy (our 3 year old) were just watching. Well she turned, saw him through the window, waved. He was embarrassed at being caught watching. Well my husband sends our older boy (pretty much a man) out to help her. He gets out there and she says to him something about my husband getting caught watching and sending him out. I can't remember her wording but she knew my husband was 'creeping' and called him on it. Our older boy told me and my husband and kind if even made fun of my husband for getting caught being creepy. Well ever since then, the neighbor totally avoids my husband. We're talking head down, avoiding eye contact and going straight into the house if they are outside at same time. She is friendly with me - she will text the odd time and wave and chat if outside but totally avoids my husband. He is driven nuts by it. I rub it in saying he creeped her out by stalking her. He has mentioned asking her about what he did wrong but won't. I can't really read her - how she went from flirty to avoid. Only thing I can think is that she's 2 months sober and maybe realized she crossed a boundary and is just avoiding. Just wanted to give a little update.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just read this whole post for the first time, all in one sitting (easier to get a bead on things that way!)

What I'm thinking is this - neighbor lady was lonely and hard up. When you're feeling like that, it's easy to get carried away with your interactions with the opposite sex, and not even fully realize you're doing it. It happens.

I don't get the impression your husband was as into it as he's been made out to be. Don't get me wrong, he liked the attention (it's hard not to) and therefore, he overstepped his boundaries. He also probably didn't fully realize he was doing it.

He was defensive of her because he didn't see what you saw. He looked past all the negatives and only saw a woman who was paying attention to him, and being overly friendly.

I'm not convinced that either of them started this out with romantic ideas in their heads. I'm not entirely convinced SHE was, at all, to be honest. (I realize that statement will draw criticism... ) I think it just turned into "one of those things". Two people, one of them lonely and medicated, the other with apparent self-esteem issues.

What I'm trying to say is, it got to levels where it was inappropriate and uncomfortable, but I'm not of the belief that this was by design, either from the start or ever, from either of them. I think it was entirely accidental, and when both of them came to the realization that it does not look good to others (your husband had to be told, whereas it seems as though neighbor lady figured it out on her own) it ended.

It's entirely possible that if you didn't put a stop to this, it could have gone further, if only by natural causes. I will speculate, however, that because hubby was "caught" creeping on her, he might have already gone to that point... not a great sign. Now he IS looking at her "in that way".

I am, however, inclined to believe that she likely never did look at HIM "in that way". She unfortunately gave off signs, which he did not recognize until, possibly, you told him. Then his mind went in a different direction. These signs she gave, I don't think even SHE may have realized she was giving out.

I'd like to think (hope?) that had this been a conscious thing on her part, she wouldn't have started this out in front of, not only his wife (you), but your children. Those are not signs of a conscious seduction. Those are signs of not being completely aware of what one is doing.

But now you're left with a husband who, only later, came to the realization that some woman was attracted to him (even though I don't think she really was). And that's not good.

She's to blame, for sure, but at the same time, loneliness and bi-polar disorder can account for her actions to some degree. It doesn't mean she had her sights set on your husband from the start, or at all, (at least not consciously), it just means that her inhibitions and judgement were affected. She probably acted the same with ALL men while she was going through this, including the mailman and the grocery checkout clerk. It's more a reflection on how SHE needs attention directed back towards her (symptoms of loneliness).

It's concerning how your husband has handled it, though. And the watching her through the curtains thing is definitely 100 on the creep-o-meter.

I wouldn't be overly concerned about those two anymore, however I'd definitely keep an eye on your husband... Once you get a taste of that old feeling, it's hard to shake. Most married folks will agree that it feels good when someone of the opposite sex gives you that feeling again. It's totally natural. Tells you that you've "still got it." It's how far one takes those interactions that judge their character, and that's how EA's start.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

If your SON noticed, t hen yeah, it was offside, totally.

I woul say something to the neighbor and your husband! 

This reminds me of my mom's friend of a million years. Recently, their mutual friend passed and we were all at the wake together. My dad was sitting between them (mom and friend) and I was in the pew in front of them. My mom's friend kept holding onto my dad's arm and putting her leg on his thigh! WTF. My mom was all crying and whatnot so I don't think she knew what was happening. I kept staring back like, WTF! The friend noticed I noticed. So when we all got up after the service she says to me "You know, your father is so saddened by what happened so I was being supportive" (She said this with NO prompting from me) and I looked at her and in front of my sis and everyone else said "Yes, you were VERY handsy and touching my father which was very strange." I said it totally deadpan and even did the motion/movements on her arm that she was doing to my dad while I said it. She was embarrassed! AND I AM SO happy I called her out! She left the service early! 

:rofl:

Don't nobody mess with my momma!


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

SaltInWound said:


> He can find a man who speaks his native language and there are plenty of other daycare facilities. She can go find another married man to get friendly with. I would not invite her back.


Enough said.


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## kitty2013 (Dec 6, 2013)

ManOhMan2013 said:


> *If my wife talked and laughed to another man in another language I WOULD BE INSULTED AND PISSED OFF! My wife comes from another country. I don't mind her talking to women in her native tongue. To tell you the truth, that's rattling. But if she was laughing in another language to a neighbor male I would be highly insulted. Not only should you put your husband in his place, BUT YOUR FEMALE NEIGHBOR IS BEING VERY INSULTING TO YOU!! You should stand up right now and let each of them know that "knee slapping" and talking in their native tongue in front of you will NOT be acceptable.*


It feels awkward for two people that can speak the same native language to communicate in a foreign language. Certain ideas or words are difficult to be expressed in a foreign language. Sometimes people are not trying to be rude to you, they just automatically speak the language they feel most comfortable without thinking about your feeling. Most people will switch to your language if you tell them how you feel. They will assume you do not care if you keep silent. 

The "knee slapping" is not acceptable. My female friend did that repeatedly in front of my face, and I told her a joke "If I did not know you well, I would think you try to flirt with my husband." She never does that again. 

P/S: A small group of international students were speaking to each other in their native language. I was with them, and they made some comments about me without knowing that I understood what they said .


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

golfergirl said:


> My adult son asked me, 'gee mom when was the last time he paid that close attention to you when you talked'


When was the last time you stood next to him laughing at all his jokes, touching his leg and generally flirting with him?


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

WorkingOnMe said:


> When was the last time you stood next to him laughing at all his jokes, touching his leg and generally flirting with him?


When he lets me. I'm the affectionate one. I take his hand shopping, randomly walk up and hug and kiss him. I brag him up to my friends in front of him but it's never enough. I can say thanks for something and days later he pouts that I didn't appreciate gesture. I'm not perfect but far more demonstrative and thoughtful than him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

kitty2013 said:


> It feels awkward for two people that can speak the same native language to communicate in a foreign language. Certain ideas or words are difficult to be expressed in a foreign language. Sometimes people are not trying to be rude to you, they just automatically speak the language they feel most comfortable without thinking about your feeling. Most people will switch to your language if you tell them how you feel. They will assume you do not care if you keep silent.
> 
> The "knee slapping" is not acceptable. My female friend did that repeatedly in front of my face, and I told her a joke "If I did not know you well, I would think you try to flirt with my husband." She never does that again.
> 
> P/S: A small group of international students were speaking to each other in their native language. I was with them, and they made some comments about me without knowing that I understood what they said .


^^^ that's beyond rude.
It's not their foreign tongue. She learned conversational German from an extended vacation many years ago. I doubt the knee slapping would happen again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

alexm said:


> Just read this whole post for the first time, all in one sitting (easier to get a bead on things that way!)
> 
> What I'm thinking is this - neighbor lady was lonely and hard up. When you're feeling like that, it's easy to get carried away with your interactions with the opposite sex, and not even fully realize you're doing it. It happens.
> 
> ...


I believe you are pretty accurate. And whether he creeped her out of she felt bad I think is why she is avoiding. What annoys me is his brazen attitude showing me how much it matters to him. She owes me or my marriage nothing. He does.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

golfergirl said:


> I believe you are pretty accurate. And whether he creeped her out of she felt bad I think is why she is avoiding. What annoys me is his brazen attitude showing me how much it matters to him. She owes me or my marriage nothing. He does.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't mean to add fuel to the fire, but the thought occurred to me that perhaps he made a move on her at some point, and she did not respond in kind. Like I said, I wasn't too quick to jump on the "she's a husband stealing hussy" wagon.

Maybe she was just seeing if she's still got it (consciously or not), and at whatever point he figured it out - possibly when you told him - he got a little obsessed and went too far.

I've also been in similar situations where I've read someone the wrong way, and ended up embarrassing myself because of it. I've learned that some women are just plain flirty and give out a vibe that they either don't intend to, or is easy to read wrong.

It's entirely possible that she didn't mean for this to become what it is, and if your husband crossed a line with her, that's why everybody is avoiding everybody else.

I hope not. Like I said, just a thought. Might be worth asking her and then him about that scenario, unless you're done with this entirely.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

golfergirl said:


> I believe you are pretty accurate. And whether he creeped her out of she felt bad I think is why she is avoiding. What annoys me is his brazen attitude showing me how much it matters to him. She owes me or my marriage nothing. He does.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think if she felt bad about it she'd be avoiding you too. Since she's just avoiding him I think he creeped her out.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

Haven't updated in awhile but there has been more going on. A few months ago, Flirty Neighbor ran in to my husband outside our houses and he asked her point blank if she was avoiding him. She seemed shocked and said no and was glad he mentioned it. I personally would have preferred he leave it alone but no he had to confront. A few days later she texted him and asked him to friend her on Facebook so he could see the pictures she posted about moving a house. He said he didn't have Facebook but to message me. She did message me and I did go on to her Facebook and sent a friend request. Her Facebook is open and there were no photos of a house being moved and she never accepted my friend request. I told my husband I found this odd and that I would appreciate out of respect for me that he shut her down a little stronger with these personal requests.
A few weeks ago my son was moving in some furniture. I parked on the street so he could back up to the door. So my car wasn't in usual spot. I had my banked day off so it was an odd day off for an office worker. I was vacuuming in living room and doorbell rings. Here is Flirty Neighbor dropping off some papers for a group her and I are part of. My husband answers and I am not seen from door. She starts yapping about the group (my husband not involved) and asks if she can come in. She steps in, sees me and says kind of taken aback, 'oh I didn't know you were here, I didn't see your vehicle'. She yapped some and left. My husband thinks I'm making too much of things and I think he is flattered and playing dumb. I am not psycho or accusing or demanding. I do express my concerns and so has my adult son.
Now she has texted him a few times regarding my association with the group which he has no clue. I again asked him to distance himself. He doesn't have to be rude but he can brush off easily. Last night he picked a ridiculous fight and asked to see my Facebook. He is upset about 20 odd random people on there that are men. The only males on my Facebook are my son, his friends, relatives, a few married guys I went to school with and a few coworkers. I have never friended anyone that I ever dated, had a crush on or slept with. They are acquaintances and we don't message or converse. 
He knew about this since I had Facebook and decided to make a scene about it last night. So curious. Is he making excuses to continue his friendship with her. He has her on his phone apparently if they text.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

You still call her "flirty neighbor" but I'm just not seeing much flirting on her part.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

I don't know if just a weird female feeling. Asking him to friend her on Facebook to see non-existent pictures and her odd reaction when she asked to come in our house and she made it clear she clearly did not expect to see me home as my vehicle was in a different spot. And her continuing to find reason to message my husband about a group I belong to that he has nothing to do with. Flirty neighbor was her nickname from the first posts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

OP, stay away from her and your husband should too (single opposite sex friendships is a no go IMO).

Why do you and your husband continue communicating etc with this person? 

Heck, why in the world did you invite her into your house. Keep it by the door/outside etc.

As Stalin would say "no man, no problem"



PS. Naturally they will have certain connection if they come from same country/speak same language.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

I've been following your posts and yes, the situation with the flirty neighbor is weird. It's really weird that your husband confronted her. Do you think he has a crush on her? Why does he care so much what she thinks? If this woman isn't important then why is he concerned about her avoiding him? 

Also, why don't you just flat out ask her why she's texting your husband. Put her on the spot. Then tell her to only text you about the group because your husband isn't involved in it.

I think humans have gut instinct and intuition for a reason. In the CWI, people are told all the time to go with their gut.


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## Dredd (Apr 16, 2014)

I can't really tell what her intentions are quite honestly, but your husband does seem to be disregarding your thoughts and feelings, which is unacceptable. I'd have a sit down and talk to him it.

As far as the neighbor is concerned, its always good to be cautious. As I like to say, everything's fine until its not.


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## FizzBomb (Dec 31, 2013)

I think you should trust your gut on this one, golfergirl. It sounds like your son is picking up on it too.

Do you think your husband is interested in this woman? Has he ever cheated on you?


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

Never cheated (Normally has almost beyond firm boundaries), but just seems to do his own thing here. I personally don't see the attraction (she has stated she was arrested for doing and selling crack, lost custody because of that and is bi-polar. She also cheated with her previous husband). Just warms my heart she is such a prize telling her to eff off is so difficult. I treat him as 'the man' bring this to his attention but if she is his choice he is welcome to it. If that is his dream woman - I am so far off that mark I couldn't compete nor want to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FizzBomb (Dec 31, 2013)

I would cut off ties with her completely, both you and your husband -even the committee or whatever it is you're both on.

You're husband asking her if she is avoiding him makes me think he is interested in her or .... it could be innocent.

Either way he needs to be on the same page as you with this - no visits, phone calls just a neighbourly wave from across the driveway.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

golfergirl - I say follow that gut instinct... maybe your misreading the situation.... but so what??? You have every right to verbalise your discomfort with this friendship. 

Your man really needs to remember he's part of a team though so you feel secure and supported and flirty neighbour gets no mixed messages.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

golfergirl said:


> Never cheated (Normally has almost beyond firm boundaries), but just seems to do his own thing here. I personally don't see the attraction (she has stated she was arrested for doing and selling crack, lost custody because of that and is bi-polar.


And you let this woman into your house?

:scratchhead: :nono:

:FIREdevil:


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

DoF said:


> And you let this woman into your house?
> 
> :scratchhead: :nono:
> 
> :FIREdevil:


That was the last time she was invited in other than when she showed up asked to come in and was taken aback to see me home. Don't laugh, he thought she would be a great babysitter for our boys in the morning. The more I peruse through the thread the less I understand my H.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

golfergirl said:


> That was the last time she was invited in other than when she showed up asked to come in and was taken aback to see me home. Don't laugh, he thought she would be a great babysitter for our boys in the morning. The more I peruse through the thread the less I understand my H.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


When a person invites themselves into your house, that's enough of a reason to not let them in.

This woman needs to be completely cut off by both you and your husband. No more contact/NOTHING.


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## TurtleRun (Oct 18, 2013)

Tell DH that you will not have that woman in your home/life/marriage. Tell him there will be no argument about this as you feel as it is a threat to your marriage. Any argument meas he is siding with another woman. Do not stay in friendly contact with her and I'd even tell her not to contact you again.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

I had said that and he seemed to agree after a lot of discussion last year. Now I am insane (who would want a fat old man like me), and I am a hypocrite as I have 20 guys on my Facebook. He knew about these FB friends and never had issue with it. I don't think he really does - just an excuse to continue with this flirtation. He plays dumb pretending he never knew. TBH he is crossing the line in to emotional abuse on this one calling me a skank saying he feels sorry for our kids because their mom is such a skank. My Facebook has always be open. He can grab it on my unlocked phone at anytime. If he was truly threatened by it I would de- friend but I feel just a control tactic. Next it would be him threatened that I talk with customers at work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SongoftheSouth (Apr 22, 2014)

golfergirl said:


> Haven't updated in awhile but there has been more going on. A few months ago, Flirty Neighbor ran in to my husband outside our houses and he asked her point blank if she was avoiding him. She seemed shocked and said no and was glad he mentioned it. I personally would have preferred he leave it alone but no he had to confront. A few days later she texted him and asked him to friend her on Facebook so he could see the pictures she posted about moving a house. He said he didn't have Facebook but to message me. She did message me and I did go on to her Facebook and sent a friend request. Her Facebook is open and there were no photos of a house being moved and she never accepted my friend request. I told my husband I found this odd and that I would appreciate out of respect for me that he shut her down a little stronger with these personal requests.
> A few weeks ago my son was moving in some furniture. I parked on the street so he could back up to the door. So my car wasn't in usual spot. I had my banked day off so it was an odd day off for an office worker. * I was vacuuming in living room and doorbell rings. Here is Flirty Neighbor dropping off some papers for a group her and I are part of. My husband answers and I am not seen from door. She starts yapping about the group (my husband not involved) and asks if she can come in. She steps in, sees me and says kind of taken aback, 'oh I didn't know you were here, I didn't see your vehicle'. She yapped some and left. My husband thinks I'm making too much of things and I think he is flattered and playing dumb. * I am not psycho or accusing or demanding. I do express my concerns and so has my adult son.
> Now she has texted him a few times regarding my association with the group which he has no clue. I again asked him to distance himself. He doesn't have to be rude but he can brush off easily. * Last night he picked a ridiculous fight and asked to see my Facebook. He is upset about 20 odd random people on there that are men. The only males on my Facebook are my son, his friends, relatives, a few married guys I went to school with and a few coworkers.* I have never friended anyone that I ever dated, had a crush on or slept with. They are acquaintances and we don't message or converse.
> He knew about this since I had Facebook and decided to make a scene about it last night. So curious. Is he making excuses to continue his friendship with her. He has her on his phone apparently if they text.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Golfergirl I rally do not see too much taking place here. I'm going to guess that she is pretty and that makes you a little insecure. If she was overweight and unattractive would there be an issue? A few months ago you seemed amused that she was only speaking with you and avoiding your husband, but now that she stopped by the house to drop some stuff off for a group you and her are involved with and she talked to him you are chagrined. So now your husband is reacting to you tit for tat: who are these guys on facebook etc. It was never an issue before but now he's pissed at how you are reacting to what might be nothing. If he really wanted something with her he probably would have set up a FB account, accepted her invite and started chatting with her behind your back - instead he declined and told her to forwarded it to you. You and your husband are going to drive each other nuts with this.


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## SongoftheSouth (Apr 22, 2014)

golfergirl said:


> I had said that and he seemed to agree after a lot of discussion last year. Now I am insane (who would want a fat old man like me), and I am a hypocrite as I have 20 guys on my Facebook. *He knew about these FB friends and never had issue with it. I don't think he really does - just an excuse to continue with this flirtation. * He plays dumb pretending he never knew. TBH he is crossing the line in to emotional abuse on this one calling me a skank saying he feels sorry for our kids because their mom is such a skank. My Facebook has always be open. He can grab it on my unlocked phone at anytime. If he was truly threatened by it I would de- friend but I feel just a control tactic. Next it would be him threatened that I talk with customers at work.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He probably doesn't have an issue with it, but becuase you are making such a big deal out of something that may be nothing (at least in his mind) he is calling you out on it. Things are getting nasty now (name calling etc.) take a step back and reassure each other that you trust one another before this gets out of hand.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

No that isn't it. She isn't particularly attractive. She isn't awful but kind of manly with her features. And it hasn't been an on-going issue or discussion. My one comment was I wish he would like to shut her down a little firmer. I haven't harped or made big discussion on it. He is the one who keeps brining it up. And I find it odd someone would make a point to drop something off for me when they think I'm not home. I am not a jealous shrew.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

FWIW,GG,I wouldn't want this chick within 100 yards of my house or my husband. I'm not a jealous shrew either but I do have gut feelings for reason and so do you.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

I do have to add the issue isn't that she is an attractive woman threatening me.
She has been arrested for selling and doing crack.
She lost custody of her son because of above.
She married a guy that she was cheating with and stole from his wife.
She is confessed bi-polar.
My husband has female co-workers on his phone and has occasionally texted them for work and semi-personal. I do not object to that. 
My problem is her history with married men and lack of impulse control possibly due to bi-polar when she isn't being properly medicated.
My problem is this lady who is a random nothing seems to be so important for my husband to have contact with her that he picks fights with me to justify it.
It is him who continually brings it up. It is him looking for fault in me to justify keeping contact with her.
It is just strange behaviour on his part. I don't feel there is opportunity for full-blown affair, but I do see some sniffing on both their parts. As I said, if I had something to drop off for her and I thought she wasn't home, I would either leave it at the door with whoever answered or wait until she was home. Her reaction and big deal when she saw I was in fact home was what was so strange. That was only after she asked if she could come in the house.


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## TurtleRun (Oct 18, 2013)

golfergirl said:


> I had said that and he seemed to agree after a lot of discussion last year. Now I am insane (who would want a fat old man like me), and I am a hypocrite as I have 20 guys on my Facebook. He knew about these FB friends and never had issue with it. I don't think he really does - just an excuse to continue with this flirtation. He plays dumb pretending he never knew. TBH he is crossing the line in to emotional abuse on this one calling me a skank saying he feels sorry for our kids because their mom is such a skank. My Facebook has always be open. He can grab it on my unlocked phone at anytime. If he was truly threatened by it I would de- friend but I feel just a control tactic. Next it would be him threatened that I talk with customers at work.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Then don't let him use it as a weapon (facebook) against you. Just say "Ok go delete all the males that aren't family. I don't care because I care about you more".


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## TurtleRun (Oct 18, 2013)

golfergirl said:


> I do have to add the issue isn't that she is an attractive woman threatening me.
> She has been arrested for selling and doing crack.
> She lost custody of her son because of above.
> She married a guy that she was cheating with and stole from his wife.
> ...


I would not leave my kids alone with someone that is bi-polar. Sorry all the other facts (drugs use) are very scary also but the fact is bi-polar is something that is not going away. I'd tell my husband "Sorry but I need a mentally stable person to take care of my children. Do not ask if this lady can take care of our kids cause it is never going to happen." Some people with bi-polar can have it together but when you add all the other factors in there I would never trust her with my kids. Ever. I'd ask your husband "who is this woman to you that you keep bringing her into our life? Is she that important that you have to keep trying to bring her into our families lives ? Why are you doing this to me and trying to force this woman onto me and our children?" That should get him speechless and maybe even make him realize he is overstepping.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

*"TBH he is crossing the line in to emotional abuse on this one calling me a skank saying he feels sorry for our kids because their mom is such a skank."*

This smacks of defensiveness. Why does he feel so guilty if he's so innocent?

The next time he gets frisky, ask him why he wants a 'skank'. You can't respect a man who calls you that and you can't respect a man who wants to bed a 'skank'. He can get frisky with RosyPalm.


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## SongoftheSouth (Apr 22, 2014)

golfergirl said:


> I do have to add the issue isn't that she is an attractive woman threatening me.
> She has been arrested for selling and doing crack.
> She lost custody of her son because of above.
> She married a guy that she was cheating with and stole from his wife.
> ...


Ok I think I get it but am still confused with your behaviour. You do not want your husband to engage with your neighbor becuase she is a bi-polar, drug dealing coke headed meth freak that was arrsted and lost custody becuase of it and him doing so is wrong and disrespectful and she should be avoided - correct?? But a couple months ago you wrote:

*"...Well ever since then, the neighbor totally avoids my husband. We're talking head down, avoiding eye contact and going straight into the house if they are outside at same time. She is friendly with me - she will text the odd time and wave and chat if outside but totally avoids my husband. He is driven nuts by it. I rub it in saying he creeped her out by stalking her."* :scratchhead:

So she ceases to be a drug dealing, bi-polar, coke headed, meth freak when you are friendly with her and exchangng text messages and chatting pleasantly, but reverts back to all those things when she comes over to your house to drop something off to you but "yaps" with your husband??? This makes no sense. If she is a drug dealing bi-polar coke freak why are you being friendly and chatting with her and then "rubbing it in" afterward. This is senseless. 

FWIW I do not think anything is going on as it would have happened by now. If he wanted her he would have accepted her friend request on FB, created an account and chatted with her behind your back without being nagged to death by you. Instead he told her he does not FB and directed her to you so you could see whatever pictures she had. I'm just surprised you sent out a friend request to a drug dealing, crack head, bi-polar nutcase that you want nothing to do with and are now upset that she did not accept your request.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

golfergirl said:


> Never cheated (Normally has almost beyond firm boundaries), but just seems to do his own thing here. I personally don't see the attraction (she has stated she was arrested for doing and selling crack, lost custody because of that and is bi-polar. She also cheated with her previous husband). Just warms my heart she is such a prize telling her to eff off is so difficult. I treat him as 'the man' bring this to his attention but if she is his choice he is welcome to it. If that is his dream woman - I am so far off that mark I couldn't compete nor want to.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Haven't been on this thread for a while.

Based on your update I'm wondering something.

Firstly, I see no justifiable reason why she's texting your husband if he's not part of the group. 
Secondly, I don't understand the facebook episode.

But here's what I'm wondering.

Does your husband suffer from the Knight In Shining Armour Syndrome?
Lots of men do.
A woman comes to us, sometimes with a pretty face and a sad story,we see a damsel in distress and feel the urgent need to help them , despite our wives telling us that something is off.
We tend to brush aside our wife's feelings as insecurity.

I use the term we , because it happened to me early in our marriage.
It still happens to me , but I tend to let my wife dio the screening and if she isn't comfortable , then I listen to her , and act accordingly.

If there has never been any trust issues before, and if he has the KISS syndrome then you might have to approach the problem differently.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

Caribbean Man said:


> Haven't been on this thread for a while.
> 
> Based on your update I'm wondering something.
> 
> ...


Yes he does suffer from KISA and not just with women. He loves to feel needed and important. One thank you is never enough. Seriously. He keeps pretty tight score. If someone doesn't thank him profusely for something he has done.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

SongoftheSouth said:


> Ok I think I get it but am still confused with your behaviour. You do not want your husband to engage with your neighbor becuase she is a bi-polar, drug dealing coke headed meth freak that was arrsted and lost custody becuase of it and him doing so is wrong and disrespectful and she should be avoided - correct?? But a couple months ago you wrote:
> 
> *"...Well ever since then, the neighbor totally avoids my husband. We're talking head down, avoiding eye contact and going straight into the house if they are outside at same time. She is friendly with me - she will text the odd time and wave and chat if outside but totally avoids my husband. He is driven nuts by it. I rub it in saying he creeped her out by stalking her."* :scratchhead:
> 
> ...


I wonder why you feel the need to intentionally misrepresent what I say to turn everything on me? I never nagged him but I do think I shared my feelings of discomfort with him. He will see my point then a few month later acts like nothing was discussed. I don't want to be her best friend but I don't want an enemy either. There is a fine line between coming in each other's home and waving on the street. I also was by no means hurt or insulted by her not accepting my FB friend request. I just found it odd that these pictures my husband just had to see didn't exist. I said that I would appreciate him shutting her down a little tougher.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

And FWIW I don't express my displeasure with my husband's infatuation by calling him an effing skank saying I pity my kids that he's their father and saying he's an effing liar. I ask him if she is so important to his that he discounts my discomfort. He responds that I'm a skank and he pities my kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

golfergirl said:


> He responds that I'm a skank and he pities my kids.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


wait.WTH?? Forget the neighbor,this is the issue that needs to be fixed. wow!


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

I remember this thread. He's being put on the defensive and reacting badly. But WTH calling you a name like that?
Why not try to talk to him in a calm moment and make the following points clear:
1) he is to apologize and not even try to imagine talking to you like that again.
2) the neighbor is not welcome over, end of discussion.

If he asks why just remind him of how much conflict has arisen between you because of her. Who cares if it's justified or not? The point is that it's upsetting you, his wife. If he still balks then tell him he is welcome to her if he really needs to maintain the friendship. But you won't be around to hang out with them.

Sorry if I missed something. I haven't read all of the posts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> wait.WTH?? Forget the neighbor,this is the issue that needs to be fixed. wow!


Yes I was wondering about that response too.

It seems over the top, disrespectful and offensive to me. But I was wondering why would he resort to the name calling and defensiveness if his motives were above board.

Even if he felt he was being attacked by his wife, he response isn't justified.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

Other than 3 weeks ago me telling him that I found her reaction odd when she saw me at the door I have not mentioned her. Even when he said she had phoned or texted him about my stuff from group I didn't say anything. It's him who keeps bringing her up. He'll often say, 'like anyone would be interested in a fat, bald guy like me.' And when he said that I did acknowledge that I find him very attractive and of course other women do. I have my alert on high and I find her behavior odd and annoying but it's HIS reaction that upsets me more than her. Does she want him or does she just have poor boundaries and like the attention? If HE would just shut her down a little stronger I'm sure she'd back off and all would be well. She had backed off and he goes and makes a big point about being upset that she was avoiding him. Why does he care so much. Why does he bring it up all the time. Why does he pick a fight and about something as stupid as to what time I started texting my daughter - was it 6:50 or 6:55 and make reason to look at my phone so he can have a fit about a political posting from a gay male ex co-worker from Belize. That was general news feed - I do not message men. And then to total disrespect me by calling me those horrible names. Be mad call me a beeyotch - fine but liar and skank who can't be trusted? To say he could never touch me again and if he was sick in hospital he wouldn't want to see me there? Only thing worse would have been the c word. Our kids were within ear shot. I did not push not argue. All I did was keep telling him we could discuss this later the kids could here. Neighbor is a minor problem. HIS reaction is the problem. And yes a huge part of me thinks she is more than welcome to him as long as our kids stay out of their bi-polar abusive disaster.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

golfergirl said:


> Does she want him or does she just have poor boundaries and like the attention? If HE would just shut her down a little stronger I'm sure she'd back off and all would be well.


He probably felt he had done nothing wrong and lashed out at you. He's also probably ultra-flattered that she's after him if he thinks he's not attractive, that's why he made a big deal about her avoiding him. I would like to think that deep down he's really sorry for calling you those names but is perhaps too proud to admit it. He sounds immature in this respect.

The resentment is building up inside of you and you're going to have to let it out and let the chips fly where they may. I don't think for one second he wants a relationship with that woman, but he has to be called out on his bad behavior. Tell him you feel like he's putting his need for flattery before yours and that calling you names is UNACCEPTABLE and that he'd better not do it again. You need to make this clear. If he's worth it, he'll understand and apologize or do something to make you feel better.

Remember, her flattery could really be boosting him right now. Sounds like he's on a big high. This will pass.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

We haven't spoken in days. All he does is find fault in things I do. I was getting kids bathed and in oj's for bed and he storms in that I have no class and try to keep kids from him by not allowing them to say goodnight to him. Well after they were done they would go down like always to say goodnight. Or when I came home for lunch and cuddled with 3 year old. He had just finished folding laundry an in too effing lazy to help. Or states that I have never inquired about his health issue. Whenever we fight he thinks he has cancer or this time it is a blood clot and I am so cold I don't ask. Sorry he has had numerous CT scans and MRI and healthy as a horse. He had always been a dirty fighter but this is beyond anything he has done in the past. And yes I know what this is. He is being abusive. I think the boiling water around the frog just turned a notch higher.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

golfergirl said:


> I don't know if just a weird female feeling. Asking him to friend her on Facebook to see non-existent pictures and her odd reaction when she asked to come in our house and she made it clear she clearly did not expect to see me home as my vehicle was in a different spot. And her continuing to find reason to message my husband about a group I belong to that he has nothing to do with. Flirty neighbor was her nickname from the first posts.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think your instinct is quite right. She is causing trouble to your marriage. Your husband does not want to see the problem, and is already lured a bit into the fog, hence his irritated counter strike. Be very careful and stop all contact for him alone with her. Especially texting, mailing or other possible hidden ways of communicating.


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## TurtleRun (Oct 18, 2013)

:/ Your flirty neighbor is a small problem but I think you have bigger ones then him flirting ... He seems to be verbally abusive.


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

I didn't realize he was constantly abusive. Yeah, you're going to have to make a decision about what you're willing to accept. You mentioned having young kids: doesn't make this any easier for you.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

I know this issue has snowballed other than being annoyed with a too pushy neighbor. Not sure if that is the problem or the symptom. The issue is all about respect. The way he is speaking to me, the way he is treating me, his disregard over my feelings. I am shocked and almost paralysed right now. I am making contingent secret plans right now. I am squirelling away money. I am slowly moving my mail to a rented post office box. It was my home prior to marriage and I think I might be the one to have to leave it. If it came to physical safety for me and my boys, a house is just a possession, I would leave but it is annoying to lose a great start for me and my boys because my husband is being such an immature jerk. He has always been a jerk and not fought fair but this is even beyond how he has ever been. I am not sleeping right now. He is working next few days, but when he is off I feel like taking boys and disappearing. He is upset I don't care about his 'medical' issues and he doesn't get it. I don't care. I know it is BS and all I am thinking is how to get away. He thinks he is hurting me by demanding he never would want to touch a skank like me again and that he is done and all I can think is that I can't breathe around him and the thought of going home after work makes me sick. I literally feel every muscle unwind when he goes out the door. How does someone come back from that? How does someone make that up???


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## TurtleRun (Oct 18, 2013)

Is the house in yours or his name ? 

Yes it is just a house and it would suck to lose it but I would look into trying to keep it by getting him out somehow.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

TurtleRun said:


> Is the house in yours or his name ?
> 
> Yes it is just a house and it would suck to lose it but I would look into trying to keep it by getting him out somehow.


It was in my name until 2010. When we had our second child together we added him to mortgage. He has been paying half the mortgage since 2006.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Paradise (Dec 16, 2011)

whoa...slow down here. You bounce around more on this thread than anything. Before it was you really do love him and now you are stashing money and making plans on leaving. 

Counseling? Have you really sat him down and talked to him and said "this is where I am at and what I am thinking? We go to counseling and figure this out or I am leaving" type of talk? 

Sorry, but I would be telling the neighbor that she is not welcome in the home anymore and would be drawing a line there for both of them. It's your family and it needs protecting.


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## lucyloo (Dec 3, 2013)

Trust your gut, it is always right. Mine has never failed me. 

If you felt threatened or uncomfortable you need to tell him, and call him on being very rude speaking in another language. (one of my MAJOR pet peeves)

It is one thing to be friendly and mildly flirtatious, it is another to be completely obvious about it. Plenty of women have no problem going after married men, especially those they are very attracted to.

Keep it to a casual basis or cease contact if you can.


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

Paradise said:


> whoa...slow down here. You bounce around more on this thread than anything. Before it was you really do love him and now you are stashing money and making plans on leaving.


Yes, I'm lost here. Sounds like constant abuse. Does he have psychological issues? It sounds like you are afraid of him. In this case, the neighbor issue is the least of your worries. For how long have you been feeling like this?


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

I have my line drawn in the sand. I will wave in the street, make idle chit chat and that is it. I don't need an enemy but I don't want her as a friend. While I do find her pushy and annoying, I don't think at this point it needs more than brushing her off to stop this. But I can't force my boundaries on my husband. He will agree with me then make excuses. 'Well when she called to ask why you put 8 kids instead of 9 kids on this team, I had to answer her'. Ok. I'm not crazy he can have covnversation with other people, but then the conversation goes on and on. And then he needs to add his bosses kid as late registration to a team and he calls her to do it. Um that's my decision and only I know if it can be done (that's our association we belong to together - kids sports team). So while on the surface he agrees she needs to keep her distance, he continually looks for excuses where he just HAD to talk to her. I have to get coaches packages ready this weekend and suddenly he is all willing to help. 
He has never helped before in 3 years (she just joined this year). Each little thing on it's own sounds innocent enough. But when you put it against the fact that I have been asking him since August to back off from her and he keeps looking for reason to contact, that is my main problem. 

As far as the abuse, well like I said he is a dirty fighter. He always has been. No conflict has ever been calmly discussed. It always expands to some personal attacks on my character. Usually I am a liar, sneaky and selfish and he is leaving me. I can handle that. It has never been healthy fighting. He never stays on topic and uses the fight to try and destroy me. I just shut down when someone does that. He will follow me from room to room to continue discussion and I just feel desperate to get away. I am not a conflict avoider but I don't like heated discussions that go nowhere done for the purpose on destroying someone. 

This is the first time this has gone to the level it has. This is the first time he started calling me a skank and going that direction with his tirade. That crushes me. Yesterday he claims to not remember saying that but thing is I do. How can someone emotionally trust someone to be intimate when in the back of their mind an audio tape is playing sayin their are a skank and their husband never could touch them again. 

And yes my emotions are all over the place. I see real crappy behavior in him escalating over a stupid nothing in our life. I see things going potentially dangerous if things escalate with his behavior. What's next step? Slamming me against a wall? I used to trust that would never happen and now I'm not so sure. 

My husband was sent to counseling for a work anger issue. He went for as long as it took to tell his story and then when it came time to do the real work, he hated the counselor and quit. In his mind, what more do I want? I send him to counseling, I don't go - just him and still it isn't good enough. Twister and manipulator. Work suggested he go for an inappropriate outburst against a female co-worker, he lasts 3 sessions and quits. I actually went 6 months for blending family issues. So when counseling comes up - hey he went - he was the only one who did and it still wasn't good enough. 

Yes I am sneaking money away. I think I am at crisis point. I need the resources available that if things continue on this path, I can draw my line in the sand with him and be prepared to follow through immediately if he refuses. You seek counseling and addictions counseling immediately or boys and I are leaving. And be ready to go that night. I want to get back to happy with him but I really am not holding out hope. I feel my soul destroying here. In his mind he is the victim. I don't think that's accurate.

Maybe I am a sneaky liar. I am plotting to hide money to take off if he refuses help. I don't know if justifying it makes it better. I am really so very lost right now. My counselor thought he showed signs of BPD. That was through my description of events. That was before I even heard of it on here. No offense to those who struggled through and came out on top. I don't think he has it in him to plow through that. Right now my fantasy is peace. Whether with him improved or alone, I just want peace.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Golfergirl,

Consider the possibility that there is something mentally wrong with yourself

The last posts about his abuse and terrible behavior, this terrible situation,

are not in line with a poster

being here from Dec 2010 who has posted 2050 times.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

In some ways I must be. My man picker is obviously off. I had always held on to the fact that he had strong morale boundaries. I always felt that I was top priority with other women. I'm not feeling it now. A lot of stuff I was able to overlook because, 'at least he doesn't hit me or cheat on me.' With this neighbor popping in and out of the equation, his refusal to tell her to hit the dirt has rattled the one thing I held on to as making this marriage a place I was ok being.
I am a very private person. If you were to ask my family or closest friends or co-workers, they would be shocked that I am in this state and these things have happened to the marriage. I also spent a year dealing with the effects and recovery of a my son's near fatal car accident where this really didn't matter at all.
Haven't you ever had a friend or acquaintance who you thought led the picture perfect life then one day announced a divorce and listed horrible goings on in their relationship that you never would have guessed? I have.
TAM is my escape. In some ways some of the stories gave me comfort that things in my situation weren't so bad. Do you think in 2010 I sought out TAM because I was so fulfilled and happy in my marriage?
I am quickly reaching a breaking point and I am sorry if my timeline and amount of posts don't fit in where you think I should be. It takes a lot for me to get here. I have 2 small boys that I don't want to be involved in only half their lives. Forgive me if that doesn't suit you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

golfergirl said:


> Maybe I am a sneaky liar. I am plotting to hide money to take off if he refuses help. I don't know if justifying it makes it better. I am really so very lost right now. My counselor thought he showed signs of BPD. That was through my description of events. That was before I even heard of it on here. No offense to those who struggled through and came out on top. I don't think he has it in him to plow through that. Right now my fantasy is peace. Whether with him improved or alone, I just want peace.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're not a sneaky liar and there is nothing wrong with you except for giving this man more time than you should have. I'm sorry to say but from what you've posted it seems like he is 100% the problem and completely dysfunctional. 

You have two small children together and you've built a blended family together? I can see why you want to save the marriage but this guy sounds like he can't or won't ever be worth your time. Has he never apologized for any of his outbursts?

I'm sorry for your situation and I'm trying to mince my words, but who the he** does he think he is. Not worth it. Do you have family you can go to for help?


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

golfergirl said:


> In some ways I must be. My man picker is obviously off. I had always held on to the fact that he had strong morale boundaries. I always felt that I was top priority with other women. I'm not feeling it now. A lot of stuff I was able to overlook because, 'at least he doesn't hit me or cheat on me.' With this neighbor popping in and out of the equation, his refusal to tell her to hit the dirt has rattled the one thing I held on to as making this marriage a place I was ok being.
> I am a very private person. If you were to ask my family or closest friends or co-workers, they would be shocked that I am in this state and these things have happened to the marriage. I also spent a year dealing with the effects and recovery of a my son's near fatal car accident where this really didn't matter at all.
> Haven't you ever had a friend or acquaintance who you thought led the picture perfect life then one day announced a divorce and listed horrible goings on in their relationship that you never would have guessed? I have.
> TAM is my escape. In some ways some of the stories gave me comfort that things in my situation weren't so bad. Do you think in 2010 I sought out TAM because I was so fulfilled and happy in my marriage?
> ...


OP,

I've had a look through your past threads , and I am seeing a pattern.
The pattern I see is one of a woman who's married to a man that is emotionally abusive to her , and his family.

You mentioned he also has problems at work with his coworkers.

You situation seems to be deteroriating over the period that you have been here on TAM and it isn't because you aren't trying. 

I think you're justified in your fear that the abuse might turn physical due to his anger issues.His abusive language to you , describing you as a " skank" is just another step in that direction.

He seem to crave / demand constant external validation and that might be contributing to the " flirty neighbor" issue.

I think you are fully justified in putting away some cash, and preparing yourself for the inevitable crash at end of the road.

Based on your post here, I realize that you have reached your breaking point. Your husband seems to have some serious issues throughout the marriage and refuses to admit that he indeed has a serious problem.
That is the nature of the beast called low self esteem. People with it try to compensate and it manifests itself in many different forms,abuse being a common manifestation in relationships.

You are badly hurt at this time so your emotions are all over the place. But whenever you get a lucid interval and things are a bit calm , you need to weigh your options carefully.


It is good that your kids support you .
Some IC could help you see things clearly.
You would need all the help you can get to make the final decision and go through with it.

Best Wishes.


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## Jule99 (Jun 7, 2013)

canjad80 said:


> It's a normal part of human interaction and it promotes bonding.
> 
> To be clear I'm not talking about flirting with intent. It's just verbal banter and double entendres. The typical, mildly suggestive, humorous conversation that happens whenever mixed groups of non-familial adults congregate.


I would have agreed with you once. But from my experience, what you may think is just banter from someone could, in their mind, be with intent. How do you know?


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

Omego said:


> You're not a sneaky liar and there is nothing wrong with you except for giving this man more time than you should have. I'm sorry to say but from what you've posted it seems like he is 100% the problem and completely dysfunctional.
> 
> You have two small children together and you've built a blended family together? I can see why you want to save the marriage but this guy sounds like he can't or won't ever be worth your time. Has he never apologized for any of his outbursts?
> 
> I'm sorry for your situation and I'm trying to mince my words, but who the he** does he think he is. Not worth it. Do you have family you can go to for help?


My parents are deceased. I have brothers and sisters who would never leave me hanging if I needed it. Financially I would be ok on my own but that is provided he didn't ruin us financially by making a haste decision. This house - my house for 18 years would need to be sold. There is enough profit for a new start for both but that is provided he didn't just ditch it just to be done.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SongoftheSouth (Apr 22, 2014)

GolferG this is getting out of hand.mad: Sounds like there are alot of background issues going on between you and your man here that are unresolved. I think he is po'd at you for what he perceives as a double standard (not saying there is a DS just saying this is probably how he sees it). He shouldn't be calling you those names though. Sorry if I sounded harsh before, just wanted to give you another perspective. From your shoes - I would be furious if I thought some guy in the neighborhood was hitting on my wife and I would tell him to back the f'off and if he didnt there would be a fight for sure. Of course its tricky to determine what is friendly banter between neighbors and what crosses the line. Hope you guys can dial it back and can work through it.


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

golfergirl said:


> My parents are deceased. I have brothers and sisters who would never leave me hanging if I needed it. Financially I would be ok on my own but that is provided he didn't ruin us financially by making a haste decision. This house - my house for 18 years would need to be sold. There is enough profit for a new start for both but that is provided he didn't just ditch it just to be done.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How can he ruin you financially? Why do you need to worry about a fresh start for him? Sorry to ask so many questions but can you not separate your assets now? 

What I think is that you don't need additional worries right now. You're in pain over the potential demise of your relationship and on top of that, worrying about having to sell the house. Can you not sort the administrative issues first, in order to have some peace of mind, then decide how to proceed with you H in terms of the relationship?


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

Omego said:


> How can he ruin you financially? Why do you need to worry about a fresh start for him? Sorry to ask so many questions but can you not separate your assets now?
> 
> What I think is that you don't need additional worries right now. You're in pain over the potential demise of your relationship and on top of that, worrying about having to sell the house. Can you not sort the administrative issues first, in order to have some peace of mind, then decide how to proceed with you H in terms of the relationship?


I could see him just walking away from everything and leaving me hanging. There are assets and debts. It would take time to sell the assets to cover the debts. If things went quickly all is good. If he pulled his money and their was a stall on the sale of the house, it could ruin me. I could see him not caring, walking away, returning to the country he grew up in and not caring.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

golfergirl said:


> I could see him just walking away from everything and leaving me hanging. There are assets and debts. It would take time to sell the assets to cover the debts. If things went quickly all is good. If he pulled his money and their was a stall on the sale of the house, it could ruin me. I could see him not caring, walking away, returning to the country he grew up in and not caring.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What you are saying is serious. If you truly think and feel that he would do this, you're going to have to take steps now to secure your financial situation. 

One thing which much be clear: if he is a man who would abandon his wife and children and ruin them financially, you don't need to be with him anymore. I don't see how this can be up for discussion.

Follow your instincts but try to keep a cool head. If he could be so ruthless, so lacking in empathy and so self-centered, you don't have much of a choice.


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