# Why can't love win...



## eyesopen (Mar 16, 2012)

There is no point to this post other than venting my sorrow, anguish and pain.

I love my wife, yes my WAW, and it cuts me to the core.

Through all the psychology, "180"s, logic, advice, etc etc - I just want love to win. Yes, I know, she says she does not love me any more. I believe her in that this is how she feel now. But she did once. I can't believe it's dead.

I want to believe, I want love to win, why can't love just win....

Call me a romantic. Call me anything. I want to pray. I want to meditate. I want to will love back. I want to beseech the universe. And maybe, just maybe, love can win. Please.


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## cmartinho (Jul 18, 2012)

You're not the only one out there, and your feelings stem largely from the fact that you're still in love with her. When in that situation, believe me I know, it is hard to see exactly how their love could just go away like that.

I thought love was forever, I thought we were meant to be. Maybe that is true, maybe it isn't.

All I can really say is that there are a lot of good posts on here with good advice; as with anything take it with a grain of salt, but, take it nonetheless.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

eyesopen said:


> why can't love just win....


Because love isn't everything. 

It takes a commitment from 2 people and many other things (respect, honesty, communication) in order to keep a relationship going, but above all, the willingness of *both* parties to stay committed to eachother, no matter what.

Know that you are better off single than staying in a marriage with someone who doesn't want to be with you.

Do not cling. Do not plead. Do not past "Go." 

If she wants out, open up the door and let her go.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

Love does win. Always. But not before its value is realized.

eyesopen,

I know what you feel. You know that I know that because if you follow my story here you will see a mirror of your feelings in it.

Rack up 6-7 more posts and go to the private forum. You will see my thread there. It covers the events after my wife and I reconciled back in January (After I sent those letters).

Guess what?

Love did win at the end, but only after I was done feeling hurt and she was no longer able to hurt me.

Love's victory doesn't necessarily mean the survival of a marriage. You need to understand that with all your heart. You will.

Start a journal thread and post your feelings all under that thread. I will be able to help you understand many of them. There are many people like you and I here. They're very helpful.

You're not alone.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

The only person you can control is you. You can't make someone love you. Would be nice if we could but life doesn't work that way.

I'm with JB let her go. Why would you want someone who doesn't want you?


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## eyesopen (Mar 16, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> The only person you can control is you. You can't make someone love you.


I agree with you 100%



Mavash. said:


> Why would you want someone who doesn't want you?


As such, I would not. But I feel this is simply a huge mistake. It did not have to be. Circumstances (and yes, mistakes) made it happen. But for me, myself, I believe the core of our relationship was true. I wish she would see that also.

I will not go in to it in this thread, but there is a background here of circumstances such as my difficulties with work/business which I carried home, our living abroad, and her study of various philosophies combined with a mid life crisis (and again, yes, what I had been neglecting).


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

eyesopen said:


> As such, I would not. But I feel this is simply a huge mistake. It did not have to be. Circumstances (and yes, mistakes) made it happen. But for me, myself, I believe the core of our relationship was true.* I wish she would see that also.*


And therein lies the problem. You can't "make" her see or agree to what you feel. You may feel this is a uge mistake, however, she may feel it's in her best interest to separate. We cannot make anyone feel/believe/stay committed to anything. And as such, if she doesn't WANT to be with you, the worst thing you could do is try to hang on to someone who is running and screaming trying to get away from you.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

You can woulda/coulda/shoulda all day long and it won't change anything. The truth is you did the best you could at the time and now that chapter of your life is over. Learn from this experience and move forward. Last time I checked there isn't a time machine. On this you don't get a do over. Let her go. This will hurt like hell but you won't die from it. If you do this right it will end up being the best thing that ever happens to you. With the next relationship you'll do better because you'll know better.


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## eyesopen (Mar 16, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> And as such, if she doesn't WANT to be with you, the worst thing you could do is try to hang on to someone who is running and screaming trying to get away from you.


OK so now, granted I can't control her, I can only control myself, etc etc. But all said, and I hope this is the best way of asking it, given the situation, what are the things one needs to do in order to (if possible) *cause her to want* to be with me again? To see me as not only the man she married but also as the man she would like to be with now also and going forward?


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## Matt1720 (May 7, 2012)

A big part of what it sounds like you're struggling with is owning up to your own contributions to the failure of the marriage. This is a big step, forgiving yourself.

Once you do that, you'll be able to take a very objective look at what went wrong (with WAWs its 99% them).

Edit: Again your focus is on the wrong person. The link below is your homework. 

Man Up and Nice Guy Reference


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Mavash. said:


> *You can woulda/coulda/shoulda all day long and it won't change anything. The truth is you did the best you could at the time and now that chapter of your life is over. Learn from this experience and move forward. Last time I checked there isn't a time machine. On this you don't get a do over.* Let her go. *This will hurt like hell but you won't die from it*. If you do this right it will end up being the best thing that ever happens to you. With the next relationship you'll do better because you'll know better.


What an excellent post. I love it from start to finish. You are spot on, Mavash. :smthumbup:




eyesopen said:


> OK so now, granted I can't control her, I can only control myself, etc etc. But all said, and I hope this is the best way of asking it, given the situation, what are the things one needs to do in order to (if possible) *cause her to want* to be with me again? To see me as not only the man she married but also as the man she would like to be with now also and going forward?


Again, you are trying to control what you want her to see/think/feel.

You CANNOT "cause" someone to want to be with you. Just as you cannot "make" someone love you. Or stay with you. Or anything with you. What you CAN do is tell her how you feel and tell her you want you rmarriage to work and outline where you went wrong and what you want to do to make things better in the future. She will either WANT to be with you of her own free will or she won't. If she will, awesome, congrats--strengthen your marriage, together. If she won't, all you can do is concede.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

> cause her to want to be with me again?


This is a sign of controlling thoughts/actions, a byproduct of codependency. You are codependent.

Read the link in my signature.

Stop being unfair to her and yourself. You have issues to work on. The only way she will want to be with you again is if you become a better man than you used to be. You're not there yet.

LET HER GO and start working on yourself.


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## DjF (Nov 24, 2010)

I was in your shoes about a year ago, couldn't understand how she could walk awa from 25 years of marriage, walk away from love...from the family...

I now realized she walked away two years ago, it was because she did love me and couldn't handle watching, enabling the downward spial that my life had become due to alcoholism...

People often confuse love and marriage...love is the easy part, marriage takes a total committment from 2 people...the woman I married 27 years ago isn't the same woman I worship now, nor am I the same man...we've had to evolve numerous times...I am learning the difference between love and intimacy, that the meaning of "communication" is different for her than it is me...I can be in the same room and feel like we are in communication, she needs chatter...

Love is the easy part, marriages evolve, and hopefully mature...


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

eyesopen said:


> what are the things one needs to do in order to (if possible) *cause her to want* to be with me again? To see me as not only the man she married but also as the man she would like to be with now also and going forward?


You're not listening to us. It's too late. She's fallen out of love and she's done.

What you need to do is put your energy into healing. Chasing someone that doesn't want you is a complete waste of time. Let her go.


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## eyesopen (Mar 16, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> You're not listening to us. It's too late. She's fallen out of love and she's done.


I am listening... I swear to god I am listening. At least the best I can.

I don't want to *make* her do anything, not in the controlling sense. But I would like to find a way to rekindle/reconstruct what was once there and was lost. There has to be a way, there has to.


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## Matt1720 (May 7, 2012)

If there was, don't you think we'd all be frollicking in a field of daisies with our totally committed husbands/wives?

The pain is something you'll just have to go through.

_If you're going through hell, keep going_ *and keep posting*


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## lulubelle (Jun 28, 2012)

eyesopen said:


> OK so now, granted I can't control her, I can only control myself, etc etc. But all said, and I hope this is the best way of asking it, given the situation, what are the things one needs to do in order to (if possible) *cause her to want* to be with me again? To see me as not only the man she married but also as the man she would like to be with now also and going forward?


you have to focus on yourself. read up about 180 and nc. give her the space she wants. see a counselor. do you. this will feel very unnatural at first, but this is how you heal. the only part of the relationship you should be thinking about is how you changed (not for the better) and how you can become the best, most attractive (inside and out) person you can be. when you reclaim your sense of self and your confidence, only then can there even be a possibility she MIGHT consider R. i don't know your story, but something probably happened that caused her to become unhappy or wonder if there wasn't something better out there. it probably happened over months or even years. don't beg, cry, plead. don't shower her with love, gifts, ect. this will push her even farther away. be grateful you have this chance to work on yourself.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

eyesopen said:


> I am listening... I swear to god I am listening. At least the best I can.
> 
> I don't want to *make* her do anything, not in the controlling sense. But I would like to find a way to rekindle/reconstruct what was once there and was lost. There has to be a way, there has to.


You don't get it. 

You say you understand that you cannot "make" her do anything yet the next thing you post is that you want to find a way to rekindle it. (Word to the wise: that can't be done unless she also wants that.). Then you say there "HAS" to be a way. No, there doesn't. If one person wants out, there is nothing left to salvage, whether you agree or NOT. 

It takes TWO to make a marriage. One person cannot do it alone. Committment has to come from both. 

The longer you hold on for dear life, the longer your recovery and healing time. 

As they say "Let go or be dragged."


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

eyesopen said:


> IBut I would like to find a way to rekindle/reconstruct what was once there and was lost. There has to be a way, there has to.


Nope there doesn't have to be a way. If there was TAM wouldn't exist, counselors would be out of business and the word 'divorce' would be stricken from the dictionary. This is your reality.

You are stuck in magical thinking. You think there is some way to be cupid and make your wife love you again. If you find out how to do that be sure to come back and let us know. In my world when someone says they no longer want to be with me that's generally what they mean. I guess you think that doesn't apply to you.


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## eyesopen (Mar 16, 2012)

OK. I say I get it, maybe I don't yet. Maybe it is my hope that is blinding me to see reality.

I probably just am not able to comprehend the concept of a WAW and the fact that she is absolutely not willing to even try. It is beyond me and I don't know if I ever will.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Mavash. said:


> You are stuck in magical thinking.


I like this phrase.



eyesopen said:


> OK. I say I get it, maybe I don't yet. Maybe it is my hope that is blinding me to see reality.


It is. 

Hope is always the last thing to die. 



eyesopen said:


> I probably just am not able to comprehend the concept of a WAW and the fact that she is absolutely not willing to even try. It is beyond me and I don't know if I ever will.


Here's the thing: you may never ever understand her POV and you may never get the closure that you want or the ending that you wanted, because she decided for you. BUT... with time, it will get easier, you will smile again, you will laugh again, you prevail and you willl come out in one piece on the other side. You will discover a resilience in yourself that you never even knew you were capable of having. And be better for it. Promise.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

eyesopen said:


> OK. I say I get it, maybe I don't yet. Maybe it is my hope that is blinding me to see reality.
> 
> I probably just am not able to comprehend the concept of a WAW and the fact that she is absolutely not willing to even try. It is beyond me and I don't know if I ever will.


Keep posting. I'm trying to get you to see reality. To get you to pull your head out of the sand. To face what is happening to you.

The world is filled with people who don't want to try. My best friend just divorced her husband. Why? Because he wasn't willing to do ANYTHING to fix the problem. For years she tried to no avail. He just didn't want to. Period end of story. 

People do what they want to and don't do what they don't want to. No amount of hope or wishing will ever change this fact. You can't make anyone do anything they don't want to do.


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## lulubelle (Jun 28, 2012)

eyesopen said:


> OK. I say I get it, maybe I don't yet. Maybe it is my hope that is blinding me to see reality.
> 
> I probably just am not able to comprehend the concept of a WAW and the fact that she is absolutely not willing to even try. It is beyond me and I don't know if I ever will.


how long ago did this happen? the first 2 months were HORRIBLE for me. just constant sobbing, not eating or sleeping. i tried to do anything to "fix" us, begged for counseling, forced meet ups and family time. these get togethers always felt akward, which would make me even more upset. it wasn't until i let go that i started to feel better. it's like that saying, if you love it let it go. if it's ment to be, she might come back some day. if she doesn't it wasn't ment to be.
after you heal a bit, you may realize you weren't seeing things clearly. i know for me, i wasn't in love with our current relationship. heck, i was miserable too! i was in love with the relationship we had once uppon a time, and i was in love with our love. love is important, and very powerful, but it takes more than love to be in a happy healthy relationship.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

eyesopen said:


> OK. I say I get it, maybe I don't yet. Maybe it is my hope that is blinding me to see reality.
> 
> I probably just am not able to comprehend the concept of a WAW and the fact that she is absolutely not willing to even try. It is beyond me and I don't know if I ever will.


Even the very title of the thread is a bit concerning....

"Love must win"... puts you on the side of the angels.

I guarantee you she won't respond to that.

There IS a chance she will return. But, there are no guarantees and it's likely a long-term process, if it happens at all.

What MAY happen is she experiences life (including other men) without you and actually misses you. She then may take note of any/all positive changes you have made BY YOUR WORK ON YOURSELF. The combination of those two forces may encourage her to re-think this decision.

If you continue to focus on "getting her back", you may as well forfeit the game. She'll sniff that out in a heartbeat and sense that it's crumbs of commitment and manipulative.

If.. however... you go to IC and truly work on your issues - without an agenda, other than improving yourself... you will maximize your attractiveness to her.

But, there are no guarantees.


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## eyesopen (Mar 16, 2012)

Conrad said:


> What MAY happen is she experiences life (including other men) without you and actually misses you. She then may take note of any/all positive changes you have made BY YOUR WORK ON YOURSELF. The combination of those two forces may encourage her to re-think this decision.


I suppose that is what I am hoping will happen.

Thanks


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

eyesopen said:


> I suppose that is what I am hoping will happen.
> 
> Thanks


Then make a counseling appointment today.


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## eyesopen (Mar 16, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Then make a counseling appointment today.


Sorry, what type of counseling are you talking about?


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

eyesopen said:


> I suppose that is what I am hoping will happen.
> 
> Thanks


You need to drop the "hope" thing in the context you are using it. Things have changed, and all hoping will do is keep you stuck where you are. The faster you are able to stop hoping to change the past, the faster you can move into the present.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

eyesopen said:


> Sorry, what type of counseling are you talking about?


Individual sessions.

You should start with 2x/week.

Tell the therapist you're codependent.

He'll know what you mean.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

OP may not be co-dependent. He may just be heartbroken and grasping at straws. It does happen. Especially with something as traumatic as an unwanted divorce.

Eyes--busy yourself--find a new hobby, work out, get sunlight, call up old friends, surround yourself with a good support system, eat healthy, buy a new ****, therapy if you feel you need it, try something new.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> OP may not be co-dependent. He may just be heartbroken and grasping at straws. It does happen. Especially with something as traumatic as an unwanted divorce.


I was keying in on this paragraph. Sounds very familiar:

I will not go in to it in this thread, but there is a background here of circumstances such as my difficulties with work/business which I carried home, our living abroad, and her study of various philosophies combined with a mid life crisis (and again, yes, what I had been neglecting).

(His job to fix)


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

The bad news is until you detach and let her go you don't have a snowballs chance in hell of accomplishing anything. The more you pursue the most she will run. You MUST focus on yourself because like we keep telling you that's the only thing have control over. If you do anything less you will be nothing more than her plan b.

And yes read up on codependency. At the moment you are stuck thinking the ONLY way is to get her back. You can't see any other way of being and truly there are other options.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

> OP may not be co-dependent.


He is.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

98% of the population is codependent to some degree or another. We ALL could use help with this. Our very society is built on codependendency.


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## lulubelle (Jun 28, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> The bad news is until you detach and let her go you don't have a snowballs chance in hell of accomplishing anything. The more you pursue the most she will run. You MUST focus on yourself because like we keep telling you that's the only thing have control over. If you do anything less you will be nothing more than her plan b.
> 
> And yes read up on codependency. At the moment you are stuck thinking the ONLY way is to get her back. You can't see any other way of being and truly there are other options.


this is the hardest step to make, but you must. i know you don't want to get out of bed, eat, go out with friends, ect. you have to force yourself. one day you will suddenly realize you're not crying as much, and it's not quite as hard. my mantra was fake it till you make it. i can't tell you how many times i dragged myself out with friends. eventually i started actually having fun.


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## our vision shattered (May 25, 2012)

give her time/space & focus on you for now, no begging or pleading or saying look i've changed. your marriage will never be the same, you'll see some things in the months to come for yourself. there is no time limit on this, gotta face this, we all are & i'm a hard case trust me. there is no guarantee she will ever come back thats why you work on you for you, if she likes the changes she'll let you know in her own way. time & space my friend, time & space


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

The input you are getting here in your thread is spot on. I know it's not what you want to hear. But you will be miserable and stuck until you can get past you desire to control the outcome. Trust me, I have been exactly where you are for months now. Only now am I starting to accept that all my attempts to control the state of my broken marriage, along with the hope that she will return, has kept me in an emotional hell. And you know what, it's done absolutely nothing to bring her back.

Wish I had found this place sooner.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## eyesopen (Mar 16, 2012)

I had wanted to quote a few messages but getting too messy so I will just enter this as of now (and thank all the posters that posted while I was sleeping in another time zone...).

One of the things I have realized over the past week (I started to write the reasons but decided it was too much detail...) is that I though I was in a different/better place but clearly I am not and I have a LONG way to go in healing, letting go, and working on myself. So I have made a deliberate decision to give myself time, a lot of time, and let things take their course. This does not mean I will be a hermit (but it does mean no dating with sex, it's not good for me as of now), but I definitely need time for myself. Lot's of it. I think/feel this is a process that can't be rushed.


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## jpr (Dec 14, 2011)

eyesopen said:


> I had wanted to quote a few messages but getting too messy so I will just enter this as of now (and thank all the posters that posted while I was sleeping in another time zone...).
> 
> One of the things I have realized over the past week (I started to write the reasons but decided it was too much detail...) is that I though I was in a different/better place but clearly I am not and I have a LONG way to go in healing, letting go, and working on myself. So I have made a deliberate decision to give myself time, a lot of time, and let things take their course. This does not mean I will be a hermit (but it does mean no dating with sex, it's not good for me as of now), but I definitely need time for myself. Lot's of it. I think/feel this is a process that can't be rushed.


I just read through this post. ...and I am sorry that you are going through this. It is awful.

I remember feeling exactly like this...thinking that in the end, love HAS to win...right? ...and it does, IF both people feel that love. 

I know a lot of people are telling you to let go....but, that is really, really tough to do if you are not ready for it. 

I, too, am one that likes to grab onto hope and hold onto it until it smothers me. I did that with my STBXH. I held out and left the door open for him for a very long time. ...probably much longer than a lot of people on this forum would recommend. But, in the end, this was my journey and I am content with my process.

But, I feel like, even though a lot of us are going through a similar journey, we all need to take our own path and go at our own speed. ...but, we all do need ultimately focus on moving forward in some way. 

It is good that you are going to try to focus on yourself. Try to do things to get your mind off of your spouse...but, I certainly don't blame you for holding onto the sliver of hope that your love will eventually conquer this. 

....just don't let the hope smother you to death. Make sure that you are keeping your "eyes open", Eyesopen.


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## eyesopen (Mar 16, 2012)

Thanks JPR, I have to go out now but I will post a reply, especially since you have used the word *journey*, which in my present state of perhaps-awakening-spirituality, has a lot of meaning... (and yes, that's why my nick is EyesOpen, and I hope they always will be!).

Bless you


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## lulubelle (Jun 28, 2012)

eyesopen said:


> I had wanted to quote a few messages but getting too messy so I will just enter this as of now (and thank all the posters that posted while I was sleeping in another time zone...).
> 
> One of the things I have realized over the past week (I started to write the reasons but decided it was too much detail...) is that I though I was in a different/better place but clearly I am not and I have a LONG way to go in healing, letting go, and working on myself. So I have made a deliberate decision to give myself time, a lot of time, and let things take their course. This does not mean I will be a hermit (but it does mean no dating with sex, it's not good for me as of now), but I definitely need time for myself. Lot's of it. I think/feel this is a process that can't be rushed.


:smthumbup: i'm so glad you have gotten to this point! love can win. when you love yourself you win, and when you love yourself you can then find love with somebody else.


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