# Question for Ladies that want to leave...



## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

Posted this in another area as well...but thought general could help too...

So...quick bit of background...My wife and I have been on shaky ground for about 3 months now...been married 2 years...she left on vacation to visit family with our 2 children, one 10 one almost 6 months...was supposed to be 2 weeks turned into a month and a half after a fight...

She came home and it has been up and down for almost amonth now...There is no cheating involved...but she tells me she doesnt want to be with me and yesterday told me she doesnt love me anymore while i was at work...when i got home she acted as if nothing was wrong. i think she has postpartum, but will never say anything to her it has to come from a doctor. We have started to see a counselor, but he has been on vaction for 2 of the 3 weeks she has been home. 

Anyway...onto my question. While she told me she doesnt love me anymore...at night (we still sleep in same bed) she will sometimes hold my hand or cuddle up on me. Last night she cuddled, kissed me and held my hand for almost the whole night...this is AFTER telling me she didnt love me anymore earlier in the day. 

So what does it mean when a your wife is cuddling, holding hands or kissing you while sleeping? She knows its me there...im confused.

I can fill in more details if asked...

thank you for any responses in advance!!


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Can you provide a little more detail / proof to us that she is not in an affair.

When my husband told me he loved me but was no longer in love with me, he was in an affair. But I never knew it. I had to accidentally stumble across his secret emails many months later. I now know you cannot tell if someone is cheating on you without hard proof.

As far as the way that she's acting--she wants the security of marriage and the freedom to be single.

I am glad you already have an appointment with a counselor. It could be PPD or general depression. 

But the I Love You But I'm Not In Love With You is generally code for, I don't want to be loyal to you any more, because I want to engage in behavior that married people aren't allowed to do. So I'm giving you the ILYBINILWY speech as advance warning that I'm about to do some things that you would not approve of, while staying married to you. Don't worry, I'm not going to tell you what those things are, and I'm not going to actually file for divorce. I just need a clear conscience while I "mentally" divorce you with these words.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Oh, dear, Gberg. I was the one who left, and yes, I did hold hands and cuddle sometimes, because I felt sorry for him. You have to talk to her. Ask this of her, not of us.

TALK TO HER. It's not easy, I know, but you gotta do it. Good luck.


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> Can you provide a little more detail / proof to us that she is not in an affair.
> 
> When my husband told me he loved me but was no longer in love with me, he was in an affair. But I never knew it. I had to accidentally stumble across his secret emails many months later. I now know you cannot tell if someone is cheating on you without hard proof.
> 
> ...


well she doesnt actually say she loves me but isnt in love with me....she wont say she loves me...she actually said she doesnt love me anymore....

As for cheating...i have straight up asked...she says no...i have to beleive it....she was cheated on in an earlier marriage and said she never would because iof it....now is it possible she is?? of course...but i have zero proof and have to go by what she says.

She wants out of the marriage are her words one minute and then acting normal like nothing is wrong the next. 

Basically...what does loving on me while shes sleeping mean is my question despite all of the things she says...

this is right around Postpartum time after having a baby and her mother and others think she has it...i have read a ton about women that have it and turn away from their husbands because of it...


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

lamaga said:


> Oh, dear, Gberg. I was the one who left, and yes, I did hold hands and cuddle sometimes, because I felt sorry for him. You have to talk to her. Ask this of her, not of us.
> 
> TALK TO HER. It's not easy, I know, but you gotta do it. Good luck.


So i should question her about what she does while sleeping?? I'm staying strong throughout this hoping it is the illness of postpartum...if not...ill deal with what comes...but i have to continue to try in case it is just the illness and stick by my wife is my feeling


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Gberg said:


> As for cheating...i have straight up asked...she says no...i have to beleive it....she was cheated on in an earlier marriage and said she never would because iof it....now is it possible she is?? of course...but i have zero proof and have to go by what she says.



asking a cheater if they are cheating is not going to get you anywhere and hardly reliable, especially when you have such red flags 

and yes people who have been cheated on are capable of cheating and we've seen it plenty of times on CWI before


you need to at the very least rule it out, because if she is cheating you can't work on saving it while she is in lala fantasy land with OM


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> asking a cheater if they are cheating is not going to get you anywhere and hardly reliable, especially when you have such red flags
> 
> and yes people who have been cheated on are capable of cheating and we've seen it plenty of times on CWI before
> 
> ...


While i have my suspicioins...its not worth the agony of stressing over and thinking thats what it is...if it turns out that is the truth...then sucks to be me...but while i am staying strong and pushing through this...im not going to let those thoughts invade my mind...not worth it...


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Gberg said:


> So what does it mean


It means she has a great deal of internal conflict


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Gberg said:


> While i have my suspicioins...its not worth the agony of stressing over and thinking thats what it is...if it turns out that is the truth...then sucks to be me...but while i am staying strong and pushing through this...im not going to let those thoughts invade my mind...not worth it...


so you would rather bury your head in the sand and hope it is "just" PP depression?

do you want to fight for your marriage or not? Because if you do then you need to be prepared to have all of the information by your side in order to do that. Besides, if she isn't then you can proceed with confidence having checked it out. Information is not just what you know but what you don't know yet and should know.


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> It means she has a great deal of internal conflict


Right...so inside she loves me but outside she doesnt...Do you think i should ask her about it? or leave it alone and let it come out during counseling or somewhere else?

I guess im just really confused about how to react or feel about all this...kills me when she says she doesnt want to be with me but i can deal with that...but i love how she is when she sleeps...she is my wife again and i dont want to lose that...even if it is during sleep


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

When I left my first husband I had zero feelings for him. He was an abusive angry and unfaithful person.

I did not cheat on him, nor did I lead him on by any means. I packed up my clothes and my daughter. I filed for divorce right away and it was final with in 3 months. I learned my lesson from that marriage.

It's not fair that your wife is sending mixed signals. It sounds like she is not sure what she wants either. Taking care of two young children could be taking its toll.

Maybe you guys could work on your marriage through MC. Communication is so important. My husband and I tell each other everything. I never had depression, but I do know it's best to have it treated. Good luck.


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> so you would rather bury your head in the sand and hope it is "just" PP depression?
> 
> do you want to fight for your marriage or not? Because if you do then you need to be prepared to have all of the information by your side in order to do that. Besides, if she isn't then you can proceed with confidence having checked it out. Information is not just what you know but what you don't know yet and should know.


I have been fighting and doing what needs to be done...Besides trying to steal her facebook password or looking through her locked phone somehow...no way for me to know...and i cant subject myself to snooping like that...feels wrong...you dont have to understand...but i still trust her word despite everything...

Also...its not JUST PP Depression...that is serious...and it has to be handled carefully on my end to not risk pushing her further out the door...it may be a losing battle but im willing to fight it


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> When I left my first husband I had zero feelings for him. He was an abusive angry and unfaithful person.
> 
> I did not cheat on him, nor did I lead him on by any means. I packed up my clothes and my daughter. I filed for divorce right away and it was final with in 3 months. I learned my lesson from that marriage.
> 
> ...


Thank you! we have a session next week...and are doing a communications study as well...she just has good and bad days and I gotta ride the wave. The mixed signals are tough though


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Gberg said:


> or looking through her *locked phone *somehow


you do realize that this also a HUGE red flag that she may be cheating?

I give up, I tried

and I am very sincere when I say that I hope you won't be back in a week to a few months to a few years because the affair comes to light because she leaves you for OM, I really really really hope that this is that rare case of not cheating


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> you do realize that this also a HUGE red flag that she may be cheating?
> 
> I give up, I tried
> 
> and I am very sincere when I say that I hope you won't be back in a week to a few months to a few years because the affair comes to light because she leaves you for OM, I really really really hope that this is that rare case of not cheating


I know the flags...i have the suspicions...i know its a major possibility...i just choose not to think of it...if it is true...then i have to deal with that...but ill already be ready for it because i thought it may be that way...thank you for your concern and i appreciate your insight. Cheating is just not always what the answer is...as delusional as i may sound


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

no cheating isn't always the reason youre right
and I have been wrong before

but all I am saying is to investigate to either rule it out and proceed to help her depression or find it out and take steps to end the affair first before proceeding

good luck


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

How the heck do you live like that? I admire you trying to be strong for your wife if it is some type of depression but seriously.

I'm the proverbial "nice guy" around here and if my wife flat out told me she didn't love me anymore I would be showing her the door. And I sure as hell wouldn't be sleeping with her.

And I don't buy depression as any reason for not loving you any more. I run through bouts of depression but it never affects my love for my wife or children.


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

frustr8dhubby said:


> How the heck do you live like that? I admire you trying to be strong for your wife if it is some type of depression but seriously.
> 
> I'm the proverbial "nice guy" around here and if my wife flat out told me she didn't love me anymore I would be showing her the door. And I sure as hell wouldn't be sleeping with her.
> 
> And I don't buy depression as any reason for not loving you any more. I run through bouts of depression but it never affects my love for my wife or children.


Its not easy...and its all confusing...but Postpartum as I have read shouldnt be called depression...but mood changing or something...The thing is I dont think it is her talking but the illness...and I feel like i have to KNOW that I gave every bit of chance and for this to know that I did my best and if it doesnt work...then it wasnt for a lack of trying 100 percent on my part...I can leave knowing that...itll still hurt, but not as much i think...

I am dedicated to my kids and my wife...whether she is or not...i am only hurting myslef with all of this and id rather it be that way...She'll look back eventually and say damn...he was really good and tried...may not make a difference at that point...but I;ll know what type of person i am and how ive handled everything correctly....Who says i want to leave you beacuse you are being to GOOD to me...have fun with that then...


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

Gberg said:


> So what does it mean when a your wife is cuddling, holding hands or kissing you while sleeping? She knows its me there...im confused.
> 
> !


It could be that she's picturing another man in her head while holding your hand. 
She imagines someone else and pretend it's him.
I've done it with my ex.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Gberg,

Listen to Almostrecovered.

You need to find out if this is affair related because there are a few red flags here. Locked phones, password protected Facebook accounts, vacations away for six weeks are all huge RED FLAGS

You need to realize that she could have exposed you to STDs if she is in fact involved in a physical relation. You need to find out/rule this out before you can move forward and even have a shot at reconciling your marriage (if you choose to do so)

Investigate quietly. Do not ask her again!

Investigate by putting a key logger on your PC and a Voice Activated Recorder (VAR) under the seat of her car with heavy duty velcro. If she is cheating, she'll probably feel safe making calls from her car.

Do you have access to the cell phone bill (online perhaps?) If so, look for an excessive amount of texts/calls to a particular number that you don't recognize


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

Toffer said:


> Gberg,
> 
> Listen to Almostrecovered.
> 
> ...


I idont even know how to do that key logger thing...and it seems wrong...I cant put a recorder in her car...thats just too far for me...im not that paranoid...everyones conclusion is always cheating...my mind cant handle that at this point...i get WHY they say to do this...and experience probably proves it...id rather be wrong and she is cheating then racking my brain and going crazy THINKING shes cheating...just not worth it to me...although i do understand the thinking


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

Gberg said:


> Its not easy...and its all confusing...but Postpartum as I have read shouldnt be called depression...but mood changing or something...The thing is I dont think it is her talking but the illness...and I feel like i have to KNOW that I gave every bit of chance and for this to know that I did my best and if it doesnt work...then it wasnt for a lack of trying 100 percent on my part...I can leave knowing that...itll still hurt, but not as much i think...
> 
> I am dedicated to my kids and my wife...whether she is or not...i am only hurting myslef with all of this and id rather it be that way...She'll look back eventually and say damn...he was really good and tried...may not make a difference at that point...but I;ll know what type of person i am and how ive handled everything correctly....Who says i want to leave you beacuse you are being to GOOD to me...have fun with that then...


OK, I am the last guy to say this but you need to look at the Man Up and Nice Guy reference. You are a doormat.

I am the last person who will tell you to stop being a good father or good man and yes woman do leave (or cheat on) men who are GOOD to them. You aren't helping her, and certainly not yourself, by sweeping this under the rug. If it is depression (PP or otherwise) she needs help. If not, it is likely she has checked out or is cheating on you.

Believe me, I know it is hard. I am struggling with my wife right now and I know she loves me.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> no cheating isn't always the reason youre right
> and I have been wrong before
> 
> but all I am saying is to investigate to either rule it out and proceed to help her depression or find it out and take steps to end the affair first before proceeding
> ...


You're a good man Philly. But he's been here, looking for the same answer for over month and won't take any other idea than his own. He seems to have decided that that's not an option he would ever consider (infidelity). He is not eliminating the probable causes one by one. You can't get this horse to drink the water, yet.


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

frustr8dhubby said:


> OK, I am the last guy to say this but you need to look at the Man Up and Nice Guy reference. You are a doormat.
> 
> I am the last person who will tell you to stop being a good father or good man and yes woman do leave (or cheat on) men who are GOOD to them. You aren't helping her, and certainly not yourself, by sweeping this under the rug. If it is depression (PP or otherwise) she needs help. If not, it is likely she has checked out or is cheating on you.
> 
> Believe me, I know it is hard. I am struggling with my wife right now and I know she loves me.


You are 100 percent correct...i WAS being a doormat...I stopped as of yesterday...im still going to be a nice guy...i did man up in our discussion yesterday...i did a little 180 thing...that could be why she was more aware of herself yesterday...could not be...I see why you all think i am being weak...i felt that way for a long time...thats changed....I just got confused with the affection while sleeping...the other things have changed...

She does need help...and she is supposed to go to counseling on her own as soon as she makes an appo9intment...which she has a number for someone...and is supposed to call today...I know its insane for me to keep going through this...but Its the path ive chosen...and i feel the path that God has chosen for me to follow as well.


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

I don't mean to keep beating you up but I'm there. My wife has been "going to work on her sex drive" for 8 years now. I'm still waiting...

Anyway, I will stop, good luck to you!


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

anchorwatch said:


> You're a good man Philly. But he's been here, looking for the same answer for over month and won't take any other idea than his own. He seems to have decided that that's not an option he would ever consider (infidelity). He is not eliminating the probable causes one by one. You can't get this horse to drink the water, yet.


Oh ive considered it...ive gone almost mental over it...and still think it is a possibility...I just, as you said, choose not to believe it...My counselor told me to focus on the marriage and i am going to follow his advice...I can easily be wrong and know and understand that...i just have to follow the path ive chosen

Problem is this thread is turning into cheating...which most do...It was meant to see the meaning behind the sleeping affection...thats the question i am looking for answers about...not whether she is cheating


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Gberg said:


> I idont even know how to do that key logger thing...and it seems wrong...I cant put a recorder in her car...thats just too far for me...im not that paranoid...everyones conclusion is always cheating...my mind cant handle that at this point...i get WHY they say to do this...and experience probably proves it...id rather be wrong and she is cheating then racking my brain and going crazy THINKING shes cheating...just not worth it to me...although i do understand the thinking


Gberg,

I felt exactly like you until one night I picked up my wife's cell phone while she was sleeping and what I saw changed my entire outlook. Now I always highly advise that everyone snoop because you need to know what's going on and I promise you you don't

Whether it's their mom or their siblings or their friend or their special friend, I don't believe there is any woman who came up the the "I don't love you any more" line without some outside help


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

frustr8dhubby said:


> I don't mean to keep beating you up but I'm there. My wife has been "going to work on her sex drive" for 8 years now. I'm still waiting...
> 
> Anyway, I will stop, good luck to you!


No need to stop...I absolutely appreciate and respect all of your insights...None of what anyone has said has offended me...I just know in my mind and heart what i have to do...

Im sorry you are going through it...sex drive is the last thing im worried about right now though...that all comes later for my situation


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

The advise was to eliminate cheating as a cause, not the only cause. Then move on to other possibilities. Yet is good that your stating more now about the situation, it's starting to fill in the blanks.


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> Gberg,
> 
> I felt exactly like you until one night I picked up my wife's cell phone while she was sleeping and what I saw changed my entire outlook. Now I always highly advise that everyone snoop because you need to know what's going on and I promise you you don't
> 
> Whether it's their mom or their siblings or their friend or their special friend, I don't believe there is any woman who came up the the "I don't love you any more" line without some outside help


I know that if i do that and see something...it will absolutely change my outlook...I have told her that I am willing to work and try and all that...unless she is cheating on me or had cheated on me...unforgiveable...so if it DID turn out that is what it is...then SHe's out the door that day...done and done...

I may get to the point of snooping...but im not now...who knows when i will...but im not now and will continue to not be until its too apparent


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

anchorwatch said:


> The advise was to eliminate cheating as a cause, not the only cause. Then move on to other possibilities. Yet is good that your stating more now about the situation, it's starting to fill in the blanks.


Im happy to answer anything anyone is unclear about...It's hard to put an entire giant issue into a thread...there are so many important details...hard to put them all out at one tiime


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

So don't snoop if you are uncomfortable with it. Ask her to unlock her phone and/or facebook account right with you there..


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Gberg said:


> I know that if i do that and see something...it will absolutely change my outlook...I have told her that I am willing to work and try and all that...unless she is cheating on me or had cheated on me...unforgiveable...so if it DID turn out that is what it is...then SHe's out the door that day...done and done...
> 
> I may get to the point of snooping...but im not now...who knows when i will...but im not now and will continue to not be until its too apparent


Gberg,

With all due respect, I still advise you to pick up that phone and take a look


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## JuliaP (Mar 21, 2011)

I am the person who posted that I don't feel love for my H anymore. I still am affectionate with him b/c I am trying to feel love for him again. Maybe your wife is doing the same.


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

JuliaP said:


> I am the person who posted that I don't feel love for my H anymore. I still am affectionate with him b/c I am trying to feel love for him again. Maybe your wife is doing the same.


Julia...Thank you...I hope you are right and thank you for the positive spin!


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Ok, take infidelity out of the picture. I would still think that she is confiding her thoughts with someone, other than you. Maybe friends or family. 
You say that you fought and that there were problems leading up to her getting away with family. She may have felt this way for a while. Plus the postpartum stuff, that may have put her over the edge. That said, she seems to be conflicted between wanting out and missing what she thought she had. At least she's home to work on it. Let her know you want a chance to work on it. Your willing to address the things that drove her to this. But your not begging. You can do the right thing. Stay strong, keep a confident look about you.
I would say then stay the course, do the MC and IC. And get your hands on some self help books. Sounds like she and you don't have the tools needed to handle what it is that's wrong. I was the same. My marriage was on the rocks. My wife was walking. I read "His Needs, Her Needs", and changed my behavior. I credit that book with saving my marriage. There are other books recommended on this site, take a look at them too. The big man up one is "The Married Man Sex Life", and no it's not a book about sex. 
Good luck to you.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

How do you know there is no cheating.

She was gone for a month and a half and you KNOW there`s no cheating?
How?

Because she`s acting like a woman with a new man on her mind so I`d just like to put the cheating angle to rest.

Edit:

Locked phone too huh?

My friend you won`t get any answers for your questions until you actually start looking for them.
I have no clue why you refuse to.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

Almostrecovered said:


> asking a cheater if they are cheating is not going to get you anywhere and hardly reliable, especially when you have such red flags
> 
> and yes people who have been cheated on are capable of cheating and we've seen it plenty of times on CWI before
> 
> ...


:iagree: They aren't going to tell you that they are cheating, even if you ask.. Heck some of them won't even admit it when they have been caught red handed!!


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Just so you know, MC does not work if there are 3 people in the marriage. That's because she will not fully open up in MC, she will be saving her innermost thoughts to discuss with the third party.

It's entirely possible that this is PPD.

Why does she lock her phone? I don't.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

Gberg-

I am sorry to say, but you seem to be in denial.. Wouldn't you rather rule out that she isn't cheating before trying to work on things.. If she is having an affair all of your efforts will go unnoticed. Rule it out first before you can continue, especially if her having an affair is a deal breaker.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

iheartlife said:


> Just so you know, MC does not work if there are 3 people in the marriage. That's because she will not fully open up in MC, she will be saving her innermost thoughts to discuss with the third party.
> 
> It's entirely possible that this is PPD.
> 
> Why does she lock her phone? I don't.


It could very well be PPD.. I was hit with PPD very hard, if that is the case then she needs to get into her dr ASAP.

Locking her phone is BAD, if she has never before.. It means that she has something to hide in IMHO


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

tacoma said:


> How do you know there is no cheating.
> 
> She was gone for a month and a half and you KNOW there`s no cheating?
> How?
> ...


He won't look into it because he is in denial.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Just one other point, as related to the majority of post. Those books are commonly read by posters here. When you read HNHN, you'll see why they are all calling the infidelity card. A spouse, that has fallen out of love, will find or will be ripe to find someone else to confide in. Hopefully that won't be a unrelated male. That's why they are so alarmed. You wife is in that position and you already got the "I'm not in love with you" warning. Your work is cut out for you either way.


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

Well you all convinced me to look at the phone...i found a way to yesterday. Not good...she wrote to someone that she is in love with them...You were all right...I confronted her and she is still saying she isnt in love with someone else but wont explain the texts. Says i dont deserve the right to know...we had a big blow out with name calling and saying things we didnt mean...

I still think its PPD and she adamantly said there has been no sex or sexual things done.

I know I'm screwed here but i still want to try like an idiot. I need to let her go...but we have 2 kids and one is only 6 months...she will take them and ill be devastated...

You were all correct and i knew it...I just didnt want to know it...

Not really sure where to go from here....


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

I am sorry Gberg. I wish we weren't! 

She needs to get some counseling ASAP either way...


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

she does...i do...we both do...im lost


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

ladybird said:


> It could very well be PPD.. I was hit with PPD very hard, if that is the case then she needs to get into her dr ASAP.
> 
> Locking her phone is BAD, if she has never before.. It means that she has something to hide in IMHO


What happened with your PPD? Did you do some of the same things? hate your husband out of nowhere? start looking for something else? dont mean to pry just want to understand it a little more from a personal perspective


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## Nicole R (May 11, 2012)

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There is something The NEXT Program offers, a Program for Couples & Families, that uses your brain's plastic functions to guide you and your partner to having a happy, fulfilled relationship, in 24 weeks If you decide separating is still what's best for you, the program also has foundations in collaborative family law and it will help you do reduce the emotional and financial impact of separation. It offers something traditional therapy doesn't--results, whether you choose to remain together and regain the love you once had, or you wish to separate amicably.
Check out the website, it's definitely worth a look.
The NEXT Program - Beyond Marriage Counseling & Couples Therapy


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

Anchorwatch - I have read a ton of books already. I red For Men Only...The 5 Love Languages...More than a carpenter...stuff like that...I read about postpartum to a large extent online...Its not about what I read anymore unfortunatley. I have to decide on a course of action and stick to it. Not blow up like i did. Foolishly i still think there is a chance and have to continue to work towards it...all im doing is hurting myself, but i will know at the end i gave my all and will be able to move on with no regrets.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Gberg said:


> Not really sure where to go from here....


Simple enough. Get rid of the other guy and any other outside influences that are working against you. Then get on an intentional program to win her back. Start by dating again, just like when you first met


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> Simple enough. Get rid of the other guy and any other outside influences that are working against you. Then get on an intentional program to win her back. Start by dating again, just like when you first met


All for that...how do i get rid of the outside influences...she will continue to talk to them...she has to get rid of them if she wante to make this work and has no reason to make it work in her mind


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

Gberg- This thread needs to move to the Coping with Infidelity section. A moderator can do that. You need help, and the folks that hang out in the CWI forum are the best.

You keep mentioning PPD. In my opinion it's the dreaded "fog." And you keep trying to get her to love you, to get things back to normal, but I'll bet that everything you're doing is pushing her farther away.


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

Cubby said:


> Gberg- This thread needs to move to the Coping with Infidelity section. A moderator can do that. You need help, and the folks that hang out in the CWI forum are the best.
> 
> You keep mentioning PPD. In my opinion it's the dreaded "fog." And you keep trying to get her to love you, to get things back to normal, but I'll bet that everything you're doing is pushing her farther away.


what is the "fog"? I am trying to get her to love me...but not by pushing...I am doing it through patience and working on myself and doing things that she needs and wants done...I dont talk to her about issues unless she brings it up and i dont try and touch her at her request...was doing pretty good too until yesterday when i looked at the phone...I never look at it... i stay ignorant and things may have progressed...now im back at square one and have to start all over...any progress that was made is shot out the window


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

Gberg, you saw that many here thought there was someone else in the picture. They were right. That's because these things are so predictable. It's a script, and it's almost always the same. The same will hold true for your attempts to fix things with your wife. There are certain things you might try on your own that are doomed to failure. I urge you to listen to the experts here and follow their advice. Don't think your situation is different. There might be variations, but generally these situations follow the same pattern.


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

Cubby said:


> Gberg, you saw that many here thought there was someone else in the picture. They were right. That's because these things are so predictable. It's a script, and it's almost always the same. The same will hold true for your attempts to fix things with your wife. There are certain things you might try on your own that are doomed to failure. I urge you to listen to the experts here and follow their advice. Don't think your situation is different. There might be variations, but generally these situations follow the same pattern.


so what are you suggesting then?


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

The "fog" is the feel-good chemical, called dopamine your wife is experiencing being with the other man (OM). It's highly addicting, and makes her think she's in love with him. At the same time, you are appearing to her less as being less appealing. Actually you're in the way. She likes you for support and security but doesn't get those "in love" feelings, like she gets with this guy.

So it's probably not in anything you're doing wrong (except in your attempts to woo her back, which makes you appear repulsive to her) it's just the chemical that has a hold on her. What you need to do, instead of winning her back, is to blow up the affair. Like I said, the CWI forum know best how to do that.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Gberg said:


> what is the "fog"? I am trying to get her to love me...but not by pushing...I am doing it through patience and working on myself and doing things that she needs and wants done...I dont talk to her about issues unless she brings it up and i dont try and touch her at her request...was doing pretty good too until yesterday when i looked at the phone...I never look at it... i stay ignorant and things may have progressed...now im back at square one and have to start all over...any progress that was made is shot out the window


OK, he means she is in a fog, a fantasy, she can't think straight...she high on it, like a drug. I don't know how far along she is, but timely decisions are needed.
First move you thread to the infidelity sub forum. There you will get advice on how to proceed and form a plan. It wont be easy and you will need a strong resolve to do whats necessary. Take their advice, for your relationship's sake don't brush off what your told, if you want to try save it. 
Remember both of you were responsible for the marriage, she alone is responsible for the affair. 
I wish you good luck at your endeavor.


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

how do i move the thread?


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Please ask a moderator to move your thread to the Coping with Infidelity Forum.

I am sorry that you discovered that she is telling someone else that she's in love with them.

PPD could contribute to it but as cubby says, it isn't what is causing her to say "I Love You But I'm Not In Love With You." Perhaps she turned to someone else as an escape to lift her out of depression, but that is just an explanation for the depression, NOT an explanation for why she has made this supremely selfish choice.

Once has created a bond with this person, a secret private fantasy. Whenever she's down, she can escape into that world where there is no reality. She's gorgeous, he's a prince, and there are no screaming babies and dishes to wash.

You will not break that bond easily. She craves it like chocolate, or alcohol, or anything else that is a bad habit that is lots and lots of fun. She is going to need to feel some cold hard reality before she will wake up from her daydream. 

You will have to prepare yourself to be strong and tough. Being extra sweet and loving to someone in her condition does nothing but make her like the other man more and build up additional disdain for you.


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> Please ask a moderator to move your thread to the Coping with Infidelity Forum.
> 
> I am sorry that you discovered that she is telling someone else that she's in love with them.
> 
> ...


I can be strong and tough...not a problem...but i am a "nice guy" and cant be rude...its such a fine line

SOrry to be techinically challeneged a bit here...but where do i find a moderator to ask to have it moved...im looking around and dont see much


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Gberg said:


> I can be strong and tough...not a problem...but i am a "nice guy" and cant be rude...its such a fine line


No, that is exactly right. Being tough and strong is not about being rude and mean. No one is attracted to rude and mean. Being rude and mean is not a way to show love.

I'm sorry I don't have a list of moderators to private message (PM) to have your thread moved. I hope someone else comes along and helps you out with that.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Gberg said:


> I can be strong and tough...not a problem...but i am a "nice guy" and cant be rude...its such a fine line


Being strong and having the resolve to stand up to whats obviously disrespectful to your marriage vows is not rude. And to show affection to someone who is not fully committed to you marriage, is to show weakness. You can say I love you, but show you have been disrespected. 

Now PM a mod and have them moderator your thread


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

anchorwatch said:


> Being strong and having the resolve to stand up to whats obviously disrespectful to your marriage vows is not rude. And to show affection to someone who is not fully committed to you marriage, is to show weakness. You can say I love you, but show you have been disrespected.
> 
> Now PM a mod and have them moderator your thread


help me out with that part...i dont know who the MOds are and who to PM and id be happy to have this moved...


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Talk About Marriage - View Profile: Amplexor


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Gberg said:


> All for that...how do i get rid of the outside influences...she will continue to talk to them...she has to get rid of them if she wante to make this work and has no reason to make it work in her mind


You have a lot more capability in this area than you might think. Now is the time for you to take action. First determine exactly who are the outside influences are working against you. At a very minimum, don't provide any material support for them. Then create an environment that makes it more difficult for them to get your wife's attention. Don't count on what your wife may or may not do. You are the man here.


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> You have a lot more capability in this area than you might think. Now is the time for you to take action. First determine exactly who are the outside influences are working against you. At a very minimum, don't provide any material support for them. Then create an environment that makes it more difficult for them to get your wife's attention. Don't count on what your wife may or may not do. You are the man here.


All well and good...we live in Hawaii...they all live in California...she is constantly on the phone with them and i am at work all day...how do I stop her from using her phone?


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

anchorwatch said:


> Talk About Marriage - View Profile: Amplexor


thanks...sent


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Gberg said:


> All well and good...we live in Hawaii...they all live in California...she is constantly on the phone with them and i am at work all day...how do I stop her from using her phone?


You can't stop someone from doing what they want to do but you can try to encourage her to find things to do that cut down on the phone time. It's hard to talk on the phone while you are playing tennis for example. Or looking up recipes or helping at church or a lot of other things she might be doing.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

for starters read my newbie link in my signature

I wish you hadnt confronted yet as the initial confrontation is important, now she will go to great lengths to hide it from you

step one is investigating and getting all pertinent info
step two is destroying the affair through exposure and other tactics
step 3 depends on you but I do want you to know that you shoudn't leave divorce off the table, often the possibility of divorce needs to be present for her to come out of the fog

a few questions-

what kind of phone, if its an iphone does she sync it to the computer and what OS do you have?

do you know who OM is and is he married as well?


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> for starters read my newbie link in my signature
> 
> I wish you hadnt confronted yet as the initial confrontation is important, now she will go to great lengths to hide it from you
> 
> ...


I dont know the OM personally...and she changed his name on the phone to a female name to throw me off but i know WHO it is from her past. 

We have Iphones and doesnt sync it to the computer. WE have Iphone 4's not the one with siri...the cheaper of the two.

I wish i didnt confront yet as well, my counselor told me not to confront her at all a few weeks ago when i told him i had suspicions...i just could hold back after seeing it. I was shaking i was so mad...and i wouldnt have been able to put it out of my mind.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Gberg, sorry for the pain you're going through.

When she is not around sync her phone to your computer, takes a minute at the most. Maybe when she is in shower.

Does she use a computer for emails and such?

In the mean time *DONT CONFRONT HER WITH ANY LITTLE EVIDENCE YOU GATHER.*


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

keko said:


> Gberg, sorry for the pain you're going through.
> 
> When she is not around sync her phone to your computer, takes a minute at the most. Maybe when she is in shower.
> 
> ...


after i looked at her phone...she does not lose sight of it...constantly in her hand...she does use email...and i have looked at it...there is nothing there...she is smart and is going to be even more extra careful now


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Gberg said:


> after i looked at her phone...she does not lose sight of it...constantly in her hand...she does use email...and i have looked at it...there is nothing there...she is smart and is going to be even more extra careful now


She probably deletes her emails. Install a keylogger on the computer so you'll catch any secretive email she receives and sends.

Does she take the phone with her to bathroom, shower, sleep?


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

keko said:


> She probably deletes her emails. Install a keylogger on the computer so you'll catch any secretive email she receives and sends.
> 
> Does she take the phone with her to bathroom, shower, sleep?


yes...into the bathroom...shower and under her pillow while sleeping...

i dont have a lot of money and dont know how to install a keylogger...we share a bank account so she'd see anything i bought anyway


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Keyloggers usually run 80+, is that within your budget? They are very easy to install but if she spends most of her time on the phone it might not be money well spent.

Is she texting only or making calls as well?

Do you know the OM's phone number?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Gberg said:


> I dont know the OM personally...and she changed his name on the phone to a female name to throw me off but i know WHO it is from her past.
> 
> We have Iphones and doesnt sync it to the computer. WE have Iphone 4's not the one with siri...the cheaper of the two.
> 
> I wish i didnt confront yet as well, my counselor told me not to confront her at all a few weeks ago when i told him i had suspicions...i just could hold back after seeing it. I was shaking i was so mad...and i wouldnt have been able to put it out of my mind.



by OS I meant the operating system of the computer you can sync it to like windows 7 for example

you can retrieve the deleted texts since she has an iphone, and it can be done with no cost
the trick is to sync it when she doesnt have the phone
how do you get updates on the phone, do you use icloud?


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

keko said:


> Keyloggers usually run 80+, is that within your budget? They are very easy to install but if she spends most of her time on the phone it might not be money well spent.
> 
> Is she texting only or making calls as well?
> 
> Do you know the OM's phone number?


I know his phone number and she is texting and sometimes calling...its an iphone to iphone so it doesnt show up on bills...only randomly and i think its a different number...i may even have the wrong person at this point...i have no idea anymore...


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Gberg said:


> I know his phone number and she is texting and sometimes calling...its an iphone to iphone so it doesnt show up on bills...only randomly and i think its a different number...i may even have the wrong person at this point...i have no idea anymore...


Use that number on search sites, maybe you'll come up with name/address. Compare that with where your wife went to, etc.

Have your computer open with iTunes running, when a single moment she leaves the phone unattended connect it to your computer and sync it. Takes seconds, a minute at the most.

Keep it cool and calm until then. Try not to pressure her so at some point she will relax and will slip.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Gberg said:


> Well you all convinced me to look at the phone...i found a way to yesterday. Not good...she wrote to someone that she is in love with them...You were all right...I confronted her and she is still saying she isnt in love with someone else but wont explain the texts. Says i dont deserve the right to know...we had a big blow out with name calling and saying things we didnt mean...
> 
> I still think its PPD and she adamantly said there has been no sex or sexual things done.
> 
> ...


Um, you might want to do a DNA test on your 6 month old.


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> by OS I meant the operating system of the computer you can sync it to like windows 7 for example
> 
> you can retrieve the deleted texts since she has an iphone, and it can be done with no cost
> the trick is to sync it when she doesnt have the phone
> how do you get updates on the phone, do you use icloud?


oh we have Windows 7...she will never leave her phone around me again at this point...i dont really know how to use any of the iphone stuff like icloud...i dont know what she does with it...and im sure she changed her phone password now that she knows i know it...

theres no shot at me syncing the phone...will never be a momenmt to do it...


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Um, you might want to do a DNA test on your 6 month old.


no way...She looks EXACTLY like me more so than her...the affair started when she went to california about 2 or 3 months ago...we live in completely different states


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Way to retrieve deleted text messages from iphone - Truth About Deception


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

You want to put your head into the sand so much that people are having a hard time helping you. Your wife's behavior fits the cheater pattern to the T. There are countless stories very similar to yours here. Please take time to read them or please follow the advice here. It will be very valuable to you.

Divorce is reality here. She is still talking to this guy after the confrontation? Time to man-up. Don't expect her to respect you after you refuse to do it for yourself.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Gberg said:


> theres no shot at me syncing the phone...will never be a momenmt to do it...


Are your phones same color? Why not take hers by accident and drive away?


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> You want to put your head into the sand so much that people are having a hard time helping you. Your wife's behavior fits the cheater pattern to the T. There are countless stories very similar to yours here. Please take time to read them or please follow the advice here. It will be very valuable to you.
> 
> Divorce is reality here. She is still talking to this guy after the confrontation? Time to man-up. Don't expect her to respect you after you refuse to do it for yourself.


I am listening and willing to do most anything...im not saying she didnt cheat and that i wouldnt sync the phone...i just know it wont be possible...shes not dumb....the confrontation was yesterday...i dont know if she has contacted since...

i came for help and am listening...


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

You need to sync that phone and get the texts
I suggest at the very least you get it while she's sleeping, before hand download itunes 
just plug the phone in with the cord into the computer and follow these directions once the sync is done:

you find the back up here 
<Drive>:\Users\<UserName>\AppData\Roaming\Apple Computer\MobileSync\Backup

Where <Drive> is the drive letter you installed Windows 7 on ( probably C: ) and <UserName> is the name you log into Windows with.

then you can find them under these files:

1) These are all text messages synced to cpu (deleted or not): 3d0d7e5fb2ce288813306e4d4636395e047a3d28

2) These are all her contacts stored on phone: 31bb7ba8914766d4ba40d6dfb6113c8b614be442

open these files with the notepad program that comes on your computer
the texts will be mixed in with code so it wont be an easy read but it will let you see her texts


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

keko said:


> Are your phones same color? Why not take hers by accident and drive away?


no hers is white and mine is black...she has a hello kitty cover...i have no cover...

If you connect your phone to the computer just to charge it...will it sync?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

you need to have itunes downloaded first

so you guys have never updated your phones?!


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> You need to sync that phone and get the texts
> I suggest at the very least you get it while she's sleeping, before hand download itunes
> just plug the phone in with the cord into the computer and follow these directions once the sync is done:
> 
> ...


Ill try...i dont think ill be able to grab the phone even when shes sleeping...but ill do my best


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Where is her phone when she's sleeping?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

next you wil want to investigate OM, you can use spokeo.com or cidlookup.com to get info from his phone number


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> you need to have itunes downloaded first
> 
> so you guys have never updated your phones?!


i have no idea what she does with her phone...i dont update or sync or anything...we do have itunes on the computer already


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> was supposed to be 2 weeks turned into a month and a half


She had a physical affair. Don't have illusions about it. No mother leaves her kid of 4-5 months to have an EA. What was the fight that extended the trip? Cheaters usually pick up fights with their BS out of guilt or in your case, extending the stay.


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> next you wil want to investigate OM, you can use spokeo.com or cidlookup.com to get info from his phone number


ive seen him on spokeo when i was originally looking him up...it doesnt say too much really


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Gberg said:


> i have no idea what she does with her phone...i dont update or sync or anything...we do have itunes on the computer already


Maybe she already did sync it. Check the computer she uses for the info AlmostRecovered posted.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Gberg said:


> i have no idea what she does with her phone...i dont update or sync or anything...we do have itunes on the computer already


she may be syncing it already then

try looking at the files to see


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Try SpyDialer, it may say his name in the voicemail.


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> She had a physical affair. Don't have illusions about it. No mother leaves her kid of 4-5 months to have an EA. What was the fight that extended the trip? Cheaters usually pick up fights with their BS out of guilt or in your case, extending the stay.


She had both of the kids with her...i was home alone for those times...we fought about something stupid that turned into a do you even want to be with me anymore fight...it would be difficult...not impossible..but difficult to have a physical affair


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> she may be syncing it already then
> 
> try looking at the files to see


i can do that...most definitely


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Must have misread your post. I assumed that she left the kids with you...


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

keko said:


> Try SpyDialer, it may say his name in the voicemail.


called from a blocked work number...it says his name...i dont know all the phone numbers...the more i think about it...i dont know if i know too much at all...i THINK i know who it is..but it may be someone completely different...its someone but im confused of who now


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

zabasearch.com his name for a full address.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

can you look at the cell phone bill online?


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

keko said:


> zabasearch.com his name for a full address.


What would that do? he lives in california in her hometown and we live in Hawaii...i cant go to his house...not trying to be rude...just wondering


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> can you look at the cell phone bill online?


yes and I have...the phone numbers are there...but the texts are only ones that are not ichats...or whats app chats....so if he has an iphone, which the guy she said i love you to was in an ichat


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

If he's married then you can help destroy the affair by telling his wife, but you need to show her the proof


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Gberg said:


> What would that do? he lives in california in her hometown and we live in Hawaii...i cant go to his house...not trying to be rude...just wondering


If he lives near where your wife went then you can pretty much confirm its him. If not you can rule him out. 

The point is not to go to his doorstep and beat the living crap out of him, but find details about him to use for yourown gain. Does he have a facebook, wife/gf, his job, family/friends. You have to gather intel as quick as you can so you can expose the affair to everyone in one shot.


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> If he's married then you can help destroy the affair by telling his wife, but you need to show her the proof


he is not married...single and works long hours as a fireman -lucky me to have that to go against - he no longer shows up on her facebook page anymore either...as if i was blocked


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Gberg said:


> yes and I have...the phone numbers are there...but the texts are only ones that are not ichats...or whats app chats....so if he has an iphone, which the guy she said i love you to was in an ichat



forgot about the damn ichats, they changed that so you dont get to see the number of the texts


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Gberg said:


> he is not married...single and works long hours as a fireman -lucky me to have that to go against - he no longer shows up on her facebook page anymore either...as if i was blocked


well you still can expose to family and friends and maybe even his workplace

exposure techniques are in the newbie thread


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Can you access your wife's fb? Maybe he has a fake account to keep tabs with your wife.


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

keko said:


> Can you access your wife's fb? Maybe he has a fake account to keep tabs with your wife.


she changed her password to facebook...so i dont know it...id have to get the keylogger...but unfortuanely i cant afford it...litereally are living paycheck to paycheck with no room for anything else


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> forgot about the damn ichats, they changed that so you dont get to see the number of the texts


ok...ill make sure to check it out when i get home if its been synced


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> well you still can expose to family and friends and maybe even his workplace
> 
> exposure techniques are in the newbie thread


i read the thread and will do that...i need all the information first..so it might take a bit...her mom knows...


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Gberg said:


> she changed her password to facebook...so i dont know it...id have to get the keylogger...but unfortuanely i cant afford it...litereally are living paycheck to paycheck with no room for anything else


There are free one's on the internet. Google them. You can't monitor them from another computer but to get her password it'll be enough.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Do you have an antivirus running on your computer? And how competent are you both technically?


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Gberg said:


> i read the thread and will do that...i need all the information first..so it might take a bit...her mom knows...


What is she saying?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Desktopshark has a free keylogger it will only get you logs of the keystrokes but that should be enough


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Do you have an antivirus running on your computer? And how competent are you both technically?


there is antivirus...im PRETTY good techinically but she really isnt...i constantly have to fix the computer


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> Desktopshark has a free keylogger it will only get you logs of the keystrokes but that should be enough


Ok...ill check that out


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

keko said:


> What is she saying?


Her mom is in shock...thinks its postpartum...telling me shes sorry...doesnt know what my wife is thinking...wishes she had answers for me...trys to talk to her, but gets shut down for being a mom and prying...


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

I want to call the guy and straight up ask him...obviously bad idea right?


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Gberg said:


> I want to call the guy and straight up ask him...obviously bad idea right?


Don't do it.

Gather your evidence first.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Gberg:

The first thing you need to do is rule out post partum psychosis/depression, etc.

It could be that. 

But yes, a person can hold hands and snuggle and even have sex and still be having an affair. 

I guess they can even still want a divorce and do it. 

I couldn't. I am the type of person that can not hide my emotions, and if I wanted a divorce I also would not lead the person on by holding their hand and snuggling. I know that would a mind****ing message and I could not do that to ease my own guilt.

Still, there are likely some people who will do that.


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> Gberg:
> 
> The first thing you need to do is rule out post partum psychosis/depression, etc.
> 
> ...


I want her to see a counselor and others have suggested it to her about seeing a counselor for PPD...if its that...then with help she can see that she is dealing with something bigger than not wanting to be with me and is likely the cause of her not wanting to be with me....

Cheating is unacceptable though...


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

When she was in Cali where did she stay? Did she use a debit/credit card there which you can check? Who else was with her during the trip?


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

keko said:


> When she was in Cali where did she stay? Did she use a debit/credit card there which you can check? Who else was with her during the trip?


She stayed with her mom in her hometown and with her toxic friend that is also having an affair on her boyfriend 2 hours south...she went back and forth between the two and i think the OM lives in the hometown...

WE share a debit card and i have seen all she has bought...but she also worked and used a lot of cash while she was out there...

She now goes to the gym 3 hours a day everyday...to get away and train for 5ks...yes too long and unneccassry...but shes with the baby all day while im at work and if its PPD...its too much for her to be cooped up at home not doing anything with herself


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Gberg said:


> She now goes to the gym 3 hours a day everyday...


Are you sure she is even at the gym? Not seeing a new person there? There are way too many examples of hooking up at the gym.


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

keko said:


> Are you sure she is even at the gym? Not seeing a new person there? There are way too many examples of hooking up at the gym.


I know...i have no idea what she does...i cant follow her either...i have the kids to watch and they wouldnt understand what im doing either...there are way too many possibilities


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Gberg said:


> I know...i have no idea what she does...i cant follow her either...i have the kids to watch and they wouldnt understand what im doing either...there are way too many possibilities


Sorry friend. I guess take one step at a time. Start with the iphone backup/facebook and see where that leads you.

Are you exercising as well? Doing any activities on the side? It'll help you get through this ordeal easier.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Gberg said:


> She stayed with her mom in her hometown and with her toxic friend that is also having an affair on her boyfriend 2 hours south...she went back and forth between the two and i think the OM lives in the hometown...
> 
> WE share a debit card and i have seen all she has bought...but she also worked and used a lot of cash while she was out there...
> 
> She now goes to the gym 3 hours a day everyday...to get away and train for 5ks...yes too long and unneccassry...but shes with the baby all day while im at work and if its PPD...its too much for her to be cooped up at home not doing anything with herself


Dude...nobody needs to be at the gym for 3 hours for a 5K.

My wife is doing a 5K and she's gone for 1.5 hours maximum.

And toxic friend + toxic friend is a cheater = terrible sounding board for your wife. You've no doubt been demonized by her.

I'm really sorry you're going through this. I hate reading about these stories.


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

keko said:


> Sorry friend. I guess take one step at a time. Start with the iphone backup/facebook and see where that leads you.
> 
> Are you exercising as well? Doing any activities on the side? It'll help you get through this ordeal easier.


Thanks...yea i am doing INsanity...when i can with the kids not needing something...ive lost over 20 pounds and am as fit as i have ever been...so i look pretty good now...not that i was fat before...jsut a bit overweight


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

sinnister said:


> Dude...nobody needs to be at the gym for 3 hours for a 5K.
> 
> My wife is doing a 5K and she's gone for 1.5 hours maximum.
> 
> ...


Yea...i even reached out to her friend before i found out about stuff and she said she would help...obviously that was the wrong move...i dont talk to her anymore...i reached out to another friend that lives here and she said she would help but now doesnt return any text or call i make to her so i stopped that route as well...


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Gberg said:


> Yea...i even reached out to her friend before i found out about stuff and she said she would help...obviously that was the wrong move...i dont talk to her anymore...i reached out to another friend that lives here and she said she would help but now doesnt return any text or call i make to her so i stopped that route as well...


Don't bother calling them any further. They are ignoring you because they are already in it and have sided themselves with your wife. Do you have any close friends you can rely on? Maybe have them follow your wife one day to the gym?


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

keko said:


> Don't bother calling them any further. They are ignoring you because they are already in it and have sided themselves with your wife. Do you have any close friends you can rely on? Maybe have them follow your wife one day to the gym?


i dont really have anyone here to do that...sad but true...just me and my family


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Gberg said:


> i dont really have anyone here to do that...sad but true...just me and my family


Is her schedule the same everytime she leaves? Is she at the gym while you're at work or after?

Can you find a temporary babysitter?


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

PPD, if she has it, is not causing her to text and call a man in California. But it's possible that if she is dx'd with PPD she will be given antidepressants, and that might make her 'need' this person less, which might help your purposeful work toward breaking up the affair. But the meds will not be what gets her to choose to cut off contact, like a switch or something.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

keko said:


> Is her schedule the same everytime she leaves? Is she at the gym while you're at work or after?
> 
> Can you find a temporary babysitter?


She watches the baby in the afternoon til i get home...then she leaves a little later...then gone for 3-4 hours...no one is really home to watch the baby


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Gberg said:


> She watches the baby in the afternoon til i get home...then she leaves a little later...then gone for 3-4 hours...no one is really home to watch the baby


Is her "friend" at the gym as well?


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

keko said:


> Is her "friend" at the gym as well?


i dont know of anyone that lives here that she talks to


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Gberg said:


> i dont know of anyone that lives here that she talks to


How many car's in the family?

Can you place a VAR in her car?


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

keko said:


> How many car's in the family?
> 
> Can you place a VAR in her car?


2 cars...i probably could somehow...ill look into it


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Gberg said:


> 2 cars...i probably could somehow...ill look into it


You can find them at walmart/bestbuy for very cheap.

Also somehow you have to check the gym after she has been gone for a while to confirm she is there. Or if there are any spy/surveillance stores nearby you may want to buy a GPS to track her.


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## Cubby (Mar 28, 2012)

3 to 4 hours a day at the gym is a big red flag. You've got to, somehow, look into this. I work out regularly with weights and running and it's never 3 hours.

However, my wife used to be obsessed with working out at the gym, and would be there for quite a while (although probably not as long as 3 hours) and guess what? It turned out there was an OM involved.

Gberg, you're getting good advice. You need to find what you're up against before you strategize your next move. It's been said before, but it bears repeating: DO NOT CONFRONT HER WITH EVERY PIECE OF EVIDENCE YOU FIND. Also, don't tell her about this forum. This is your safe place. The people here feel your pain, know what you're going through.


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

Cubby said:


> 3 to 4 hours a day at the gym is a big red flag. You've got to, somehow, look into this. I work out regularly with weights and running and it's never 3 hours.
> 
> However, my wife used to be obsessed with working out at the gym, and would be there for quite a while (although probably not as long as 3 hours) and guess what? It turned out there was an OM involved.
> 
> Gberg, you're getting good advice. You need to find what you're up against before you strategize your next move. It's been said before, but it bears repeating: DO NOT CONFRONT HER WITH EVERY PIECE OF EVIDENCE YOU FIND. Also, don't tell her about this forum. This is your safe place. The people here feel your pain, know what you're going through.


Im not going to confront her about anything for awhile...and I wont tell her about this forum...i mentioned it yesterday that i was on a forum but she doesnt know anything about it....Im not mentioning it anymore thats for sure...

she is using the 3 hours as a getaway...im sure she isnt there for the entire time and very well could have OM on the side...i have no idea at this point...but everyone is giving very good advice and i am trying to follow it...


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Gberg, the most important advice is for you to take care of yourself for whatever you may uncover. At the end of the day if she is cheating that's her problem for the lack of moral values, not yours. So please take care of yourself not only physically but emotionally as well. Hope for the best but plan for the worst.

If funds are tight at the moment, you could ask family members to loan you money. Also make sure to clear your internet history just incase she checks it.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

keko said:


> You can find them at walmart/bestbuy for very cheap.
> 
> Also somehow you have to check the gym after she has been gone for a while to confirm she is there. Or if there are any spy/surveillance stores nearby you may want to buy a GPS to track her.




Buy one and return it within a month if you really cannot afford it. Cheap? yes but you have few options


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Gberg said:


> she changed her password to facebook...so i dont know it...id have to get the keylogger...but unfortuanely i cant afford it...litereally are living paycheck to paycheck with no room for anything else


How is it she's able to stay over a month and a half on the mainland? - yes I'm from Hawaii.

Is she a stay at home mom?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

[I am sorry you are here. I know how tough it is. Even more so with small children. Please thoroughly investigate before confrontation. Get your evidence, know where you stand, and don't reveal sources.


KanDo is out


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> How is it she's able to stay over a month and a half on the mainland? - yes I'm from Hawaii.
> 
> Is she a stay at home mom?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh god, please tell me you say book em Dano


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

Gberg said:


> What happened with your PPD? Did you do some of the same things? hate your husband out of nowhere? start looking for something else? dont mean to pry just want to understand it a little more from a personal perspective


I did not do any of the things your wife did.. I was just very sad out of nowhere. PPD pretty much hit me the moment I left the hospital. I cried non-stop all the time, it came from out of no where. I was a complete emotional wreck. 

I didn't start hating my husband until years later, but that is an entirely different story.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

keko said:


> Keyloggers usually run 80+, is that within your budget? They are very easy to install but if she spends most of her time on the phone it might not be money well spent.
> 
> Is she texting only or making calls as well?
> 
> Do you know the OM's phone number?


There is a good key logger and it is about 30-40 bucks.. desktopshark.com. The only thing I don't like about it is you have to get on the computer it is installed on to view the logs.. 


They do also have key loggers for smart phones here. webwatcher.com - web monitoring, spendy but i am sure well worth it. It did try the free trial for the key logger and I loved it, but couldn't see spending 100.00 for it.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

update?


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> Oh god, please tell me you say book em Dano


:rofl:

If anything, they said that to me. Anyway, I drive a desk now.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Gberg said:


> She stayed with her mom in her hometown and with her toxic friend that is also having an affair on her boyfriend 2 hours south...she went back and forth between the two and i think the OM lives in the hometown...
> 
> WE share a debit card and i have seen all she has bought...but she also worked and used a lot of cash while she was out there...
> 
> She now goes to the gym 3 hours a day everyday...to get away and train for 5ks...yes too long and unneccassry...but shes with the baby all day while im at work and if its PPD...its too much for her to be cooped up at home not doing anything with herself


You're either in the military stationed in Hawaii or you're a civilian making very good money to have 2 cars and your wife doesn't have to work that she can spend hours at the gym and have month and a half long vacations on the mainland. Find the money to get a decent keylogger and a couple of VARs. How much are you spending on her gym membership? 

Because it seems all you are to her right now is the babysitter. Don't be so quick to use the PPD excuse because it seems you're using that to rationalize her actions. Even if she were diagnosed with it, it is NOT a get out of jail free card that justifies her afffairs.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

My first thought is to turn off her iPhone service. It sounds like you a living pay check to pay check and you are paying for the tools she is using to cheat. Turn off the phone on her.

Yeah she will be mad, but seriously what should you finance her affair?

I think you'll find those three hours a day are her hooking up/talking with the OM.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Oh btw, fund the toxic friends bf and blow that up. Hopefully the toxic friend will be pissed at your wife and throw her under the bus.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Gberg,

You have gotten great advice from everyone.

If your wife is not working I would tighten the control on the finances. 

If the cellphone is in your name and you are paying for it then shut it off or set it up for local calls only, no texting or internet.

And I call BS on going to the gym for 3 -4 hours.

Tell her she has 2 hours for the gym. 

Do this gradually otherwise you will look like a controlling monster. She might be saying that you are controlling but most cheaters do that as well.

Stay strong, take care of your health too.

How old are you and your wife by the way?

HM64


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## Gberg (Apr 2, 2012)

So quick update...keylogger done...we havent been home to really use the computer last few days...I am in no way rich and are really struggling actually...getting rid of a car may actually end up being a realistic option if it could be done...

Her toxic friend funds her gym membership...we dont...im pretty sure the OM is off island, so they are just talking during then im sure...Im trying to figure out the best way to blow up the toxic friends affair without me being attached to it...not easy...

We had a small blowout on mothers day where she got angry over something i did but nothing big...Im trying not to be controlling but still being assertive in how i tell her i dont want things done.

She is cognizant of being home before 7 at night now...checks in with me a lot more since I confronted her...so there are positive signs...but still need to blow up the affair...

SHe is pretty much stuck in this with me as she cannot afford anything without me and i think the idea of taking our baby away is beginning to make her feel bad...now this is no reason to be excited or hopeful, probably the opposite...but maybe it will show her that she needs to at least start TRYING to make it work instead of continually sabotaging it...

We are under 30...so still young...And i know i have this stupid feeling the PPD is the issue and if she gets it diagnosed everything will magically be better...doesnt work that way and I understand...

I look at my kids and despite the issues...I know i have to continue to try and make it work for their sake...I put my pride aside and do my best...

NOt to say i wont keep trying to expose and figure out whats really happening...just wait for the right time to confront again instead of on a whim like last time...need to be more calculated

thank you all for your help again!


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

At this point I would be more concerned about her having a toxic friend and attending gym for 3-4 hours. OM is on the continent but there are plenty more local one's that will gladly take his place.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

keko said:


> At this point I would be more concerned about her having a toxic friend and attending gym for 3-4 hours. OM is on the continent but there are plenty more local one's that will gladly take his place.


Correct. The focus needs to be on finding the local OM she's with for 4 hours at the "gym."


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I agree find out how to out the toxic friend. 

some times an anonymous note mailed from another town can help. or a one time use email account.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

keko said:


> How many car's in the family?
> 
> Can you place a VAR in her car?


Var's are about 30.00 plus tax at Walmart where i live.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

I wish i lived where you live Gberg, i would either watch your kids for you so you can see what she is really doing while she is at the "gym" Or i would follow her for you.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

Shaggy said:


> I agree find out how to out the toxic friend.
> 
> some times an anonymous note mailed from another town can help. or a one time use email account.


I would send it for you, I live in Washington so no one would ever suspect a thing.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

Gberg said:


> She is cognizant of being home before 7 at night now...checks in with me a lot more since I confronted her...so there are positive signs...but still need to blow up the affair...No!!! She is just being more careful. She still doesn't respect or value you. Your are being duped
> 
> She is pretty much stuck in this with me as she cannot afford anything without me and i think the idea of taking our baby away is beginning to make her feel bad...now this is no reason to be excited or hopeful, probably the opposite...but maybe it will show her that she needs to at least start TRYING to make it work instead of continually sabotaging it...Sorry, but this will not change while the other man is still in the picture
> 
> ...


MY friend. I have been where you are. I know this is hard. Believe me when I say it will get better if you stay on the right path. I can't tell you HOW it will get better for sure; but, I am guessing you will eventually respect yourself enough and love your children enough to gather the evidence you need and dump this poor excuse for a woman to the curb. You need to be strong for yourself and your children. Hopefully the keylogger will help. You might also get her to sync her iPhone by telling her you got an update by connecting yours up. Anyway, my story is in my signature. It may buoy you a bit.


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