# Another Feminism Thread!



## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

I am pondering whether or not people truly understand what feminism is.

Women often call themselves feminists, yet many of us fully expect a man to pay for them or support them. :scratchhead: With rights come responsibilities and I have noticed that some women want all the rights, but not the rest of what having rights entails.

At the other end of the spectrum are men who believe that "feminist" is the same as "man hater". I have noticed a trend with men I have known in real life as well as TAM. The vast majority of these males are certain that the women's movements ruined families and men's roles in society. 

I cannot rightfully call myself a feminist. I will freely admit that I enjoyed having a man pay for me when we went out, while I played the field before I was married. I have always enjoyed doing domestic things for men that I cared about, because those men were lovingly making my life easier. I love to see men that promptly take heavy objects from women and also men who give up seats for us. It was harder to live independently and I am more than relieved that my husband is the main breadwinner: less headaches and worry for me!  Equal rights and choice are great, but since I do not want the _*responsibilities *_of equality, I am not really a feminist. 

Discuss.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

FirstYearDown said:


> I am pondering whether or not people truly understand what feminism is.
> 
> Women often call themselves feminists, yet many of us fully expect a man to pay for them or support them. :scratchhead: With rights come responsibilities and I have noticed that some women want all the rights, but not the rest of what having rights entails.
> 
> ...


I think the vast majority of women in america feel like you do.


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## Mistys dad (Dec 2, 2011)

There are also women in the spectrum that made feminism about hating men.

_"I feel that 'man-hating' is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them." [/B]-- Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor.

"We can't destroy the inequities between men and women until we destroy marriage." -- Robin Morgan

"I claim that rape exists any time sexual intercourse occurs when it has not been initiated by the woman, out of her own genuine affection and desire."
-- Robin Morgan

"To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he's a machine, a walking dildo." 
-- Valerie Solanas, Authoress of the SCUM Manifesto

"The male is a domestic animal which, if treated with firmness...can be trained to do most things."
-- Jilly Cooper, SCUM (Society For Cutting Up Men, started by Valerie Solanas) 

"Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the women's movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage." -- Sheila Cronin, the leader of the feminist organization NOW

"I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig." -- Andrea Dworkin

Under patriarchy, every woman's son is her potential betrayer and also the inevitable rapist or exploiter of another woman." -- Andrea Dworkin

"All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman." -- Catherine MacKinnon

"The more famous and powerful I get the more power I have to hurt men." -- Sharon Stone; Actress

"Men who are unjustly accused of rape can sometimes gain from the experience." - Catherine Comins

"All men are rapists and that's all they are"
-- Marilyn French, Authoress; (later, advisories to Al Gore's Presidential Campaign.) _

Can you understand how that can be confusing?

I grew up during ERA and the beginning of the feminist movement. While the stated goals of those movements were, and are, very legitimate, the amount of hatred that was generated against men was astounding. Up to and including Patricide against an entire gender.

Hatred that came from some, but not all, of the "leaders" of the movement.

To make it worse, there are literally no rules to the game. 

Hold a door open for one, she thanks you and goes through.
Hold a door open for another, she hisses at you that your a Chauvinist pig. (real life example)

And people wonder why men aren't acting like men anymore.

Flame away, I've seen how these threads go.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I don't call myself anything... 'cept awesome.

:rofl:

Don't label me. I'm too big for your box.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Mistys dad said:


> There are also women in the spectrum that made feminism about hating men.
> 
> _"I feel that 'man-hating' is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them." [/B]-- Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor.
> 
> ...


:iagree:


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

I heard a story once...it seems a gentleman opened a door for a lady, to which she snorted, "I can get the door myself, thank you very much, I don't need a man to do it for me." 

To which the gentleman replied, "I was taught to always open a door for a lady. My mistake in assuming that you are one."

There is a difference between a woman and a LADY.

A lady lets a gentleman be a gentleman, with no contempt for him.

Not all women are ladies...not all men are gentleman. But it's poor judgment to have one or two bad experiences and lump the entire gender in with the bad apples.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

The biggest problem with feminism is that it means different things to different feminists.

The second biggest problem is that people that don't identify with feminism think it is all one big package and because they don't approve of the man-hater wing of feminism, they dismiss it in its entirety.


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## The_Swan (Nov 20, 2011)

To me, Feminism is as simple as believing in equal rights for all and for allowing others to choose their own lifestyle without judgement no matter what you choose to do with your own life. 

This also means recognizing what each gender can bring to the table as both have contributed to society. 

I love good men. They love and care. They try to understand. They are patient and kind. They will hold a woman when she needs it and listen to her ramble. They support. They sacrifice.
Most importantly, good men understand that women communicate differently and will attempt to reach her on that level.
There are more Stay At Home Dads nowadays, too. 

I really dislike the ilk that follows the line of thought that Men are horrible, loathsome creatures because Misandry only hinders progress.
Really, most Feminist would love to communicate with men and share our ideas and would listen to men's ideas.

I do consider myself a Feminist but I love it when I get an admiring glance.
When men hold doors for me or address me as Miss/Ma'am, I see it more as being polite and I'll even look you in the eye and thank you when you do it. Plus, I am a person that will hold a door for you, no matter what the gender! 

I am a student and an artist. 
One room in our house is my studio/library and it's a constant clutter. 
I frequently ship items or going to the art museum to check out exhibits or I'm rushing off to set up for a show.
However, I will cook dinner no matter what time my husband gets home from work and enjoy making love with him. 

My husband is the breadwinner and while he tells me all about the finances and while I can always access the records, he actually handles the 401K and which stocks to invest in etc. and that's fine with me since I've never had the best head for such things.

My life is what I choose to make it and I will not put my personal expectations on anyone else's life and I expect the same in turn.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

a long time ago... maybe 15 years ago I was flippong TV channels and I stopped where some guy was interviewing Darrius Rucker (sp?) of the then up and coming 'Hootie and the Blowfish'.

The interviewer was trying a particular angle which was this: "Whats it like to be in an 'interracial band'." I remember laghing out loud at Ruckers face and reaction which was pretty much 'Is this guy serious'?

I think the entire concept of having to think about 'feminism' and its place in society is as anachronistic as wondering about Hootie and the blowfish being an 'interracial band'.

People are people. Talk to me about what you do, how you live your life, how you treat others, what makes you happy, what motivates you, what your dreams are... and we will have something to discuss. Feminism was much more relevant topic... certainly one of critical social importance in say the 30s and 40's even the 60s/70's. That is all a far cry from the perfectly wide range of life choices women in the US can today make without even batting an eyelash.

I also want to suggest that 'feminism' does not preclude holding a door for a lady or noticing her as others mention frequently here.

I usually open the door at doorways for ladies or at the elevator.. but I do it for guys too. Its simply being polite. I also let elders cut in front of me at the store or have my seat on public transportation. I dont believe I have ever seen anyone take offense at any of it. I suppose if I did, it may say more about their own grace (or lack of it) than it does about my 'misguided' deference or intentons.


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## The_Swan (Nov 20, 2011)

FrenchFry said:


> I call myself a feminist because my eyes are continuously open to the ways our society continuously and overtly objectifes women.
> 
> I call myself a feminist because it is so disgusting how prevelant rape culture is and I want to be out there fighting against it as much as possible.
> 
> ...


:iagree::smthumbup:


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

Feminism isn't feminism in society (general statement) or media.

True feminism is about equality the marxist feminism we have come to know as a society isn't about equality.

I'm an equal opportunist not a feminist. In other words I expect to be treated like a human being, an equal regardless of what's on my chest or between my legs (or not) as much as any other human being out there.

For instance - If I were to haul off out of no where and punch a man in the mouth for no reason I expect the equal and opposite reaction from that man because if that man did it to me you bet I'm coming back out swinging myself. I'm human, he's human it's a natural human reaction to something so intense and out of no where for no reason.

I hold my own intellectually, emotionally, mentally and even physically (thank you mom for self defense classes that are practical and love of martial arts).

I don't know, maybe I'm a "Humanist" lol


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Acorn said:


> The second biggest problem is that people that don't identify with feminism think it is all one big package and because they don't approve of the man-hater wing of feminism, they dismiss it in its entirety.


Good point. If the late Ms. Solanas and others like her had been soundly denounced from within the movement instead of praised as witty satirists, that problem might not be so big now.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

The feminist movement had noble goals at it's inception. Unfortunately, the it was taken over by wealthy, entitled politically connected women, who were disconnected from the cares and worries of the average American woman. 

While they are busy hissing at gentleman, the average women is looking for decent and affordable daycare for her kids so she can contribute to the family income in these hard economic times. 

If the modern day feminist care so much about women, why are they not taking up the concerns of real life women? 

They made themselves irrelevant when they sat on their laurels (azzes) and baited men with trash talk.

People forget that there was a women's right movement that gained strength in ernest as far back as 1848 at a convention in Seneca Falls NY. 30 or so women came up with a declaration of sentiments. 
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0875901.html

I am grateful for the many brave and independent thinking and honorable women and men in and out of the women's right movement whose agenda was pure - to improve the lot of women. 

I am glad that I have and my daughter and her daughters will have the freedom to develop their talents and contribute to society with the talents God gave us.


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## Lydia (Sep 4, 2011)

I do not feel feminism has to do with holding a door open for a woman, giving her your seat, or being kind to her. I also don't feel that it has all that much to do with staying home and cooking/cleaning, or becoming a female executive. The whole picture of feminism is much, much larger and much, much more serious than that.

I think this website sums it up for me: Women

Additionally, this video shows the value of true feminism:
Invest in Women - Do you see the opportunity? - YouTube

In my opinion, women who boast feminism and hate men aren't true feminists - they are sexists, and judge others on their gender. I believe in true equality, and even if a woman decides she would like to stay home and depend on her husband - that doesn't make her less than any other woman. However, women should still have the opportunities and recognition in our country that men have. We should still be able to hold jobs, be paid the same, be respected the same, etc. Sadly, I'm not sure this will ever happen because of the long-running sexism that has been, and is still in, our society - not to mention the extreme sexism in our world.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

FirstYearDown said:


> I cannot rightfully call myself a feminist. I will freely admit that I enjoyed having a man pay for me when we went out, while I played the field before I was married. I have always enjoyed doing domestic things for men that I cared about, because those men were lovingly making my life easier.
> One of the things that I really dislike that has come from the feminist movement is the idea that every date should be dutch. IMHO, that’s nonsense. To me going dutch all the time is a code that says “I don’t really trust you so I’m not going to let you treat me. You might want something in return.”
> I dated between my previous marriage and this one. I was clear to the guys I dated that I do not do dutch except in the rarest of occasions. Instead I believe that when we date we should seek to spoil each other. So if a man asks me out, he should pay. He has offered to treat me to something special that day/night. When I asked him out I should pay so that I can treat him. What I liked about this is that each person can spend according to what they can afford. Let’s say for example that the woman has far less income then the man. When she can do things she can afford like cook a romantic dinner, fix up a picnic.
> While dating I never had a shortage of dates. The men seemed to really like the idea of being able to date in a more traditional sense.
> ...


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

I am currently attending college and working part time, so that I can bring in more income for myself and contribute. Even though my husband will always earn more than me, I still want to have a career of my own. 

Andrea Dworkin and Valerie Solonas were stupid, militant hags who hated men. They remind me of KKK members; same fervent hate.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

FrenchFry said:


> ...The thing is, people do still bat an eye. Women still get called ball-busters, biotches and failures as women if they decide to pursure a career first. Our secretary of state got absolutely run all over for daring to be as ambitious as her husband. All relevant adjustments made, women still earn less than men. There are still huge Good Ol Boys clubs that without inclusion, you still hit a glass ceiling. Women are constantly valued first by looks then by acomplishments and so frustratingly frequently your accomplishments mean nothing if your looks aren't within the very narrow standard of beauty. Our first lady is crazy smart, talented, wellrounded AND
> in shape as well as pretty and has constantly been reduced to "her fat ass" or "not model beauty."
> 
> Women still have issues to fight, feminists are still out here for a reason.
> ...


No. I dont buy it. I believe your concerns here revolve around inflated importance placed on the few blowhards that might pick on Hillarys ass - rather than the reality of Hillary as VP of the US which speaks for itself. And dont forget the female corporate execs of Dupont, Xerox... Sunoco.. Reynolds, ADM not only leading these companies but in industries 'traditionally' dominated by men.. so its not just Avon and Sarah Lee or even Pepsi and TJX tough yes... they leas those companies too. Yes - women make up a fraction of the fortune 500 - it doesnt happen overnight, but the barriers are down. I say the 'glass ceiling' for women is dead - or at least it is pretty permeable at this point. 64% of companies with budgets under $250,000 are led by women. Pay rates have slashed the disparity too.. only 10 years ago top female execs made half what their male counterparts did... by some accounts that is now an 18% difference.... again only for the very top... the difference is closer to 8% overall. The science says that most women now believe job opportunities equal mens: Women who leave the workplace: Opting out or overlooking discrimination?

Women are also outpacing men in education - earning more bachelors and advanced degrees. Matching men in 2010 and surpassing them in both categories in 2011. Social stigma attached to women being all they can be? I dont think so. 

The necessity for feminism.. has all but evaporated. I think some may find it empowering to take an activist position, but lets not conflate some miscellaneous bozos screaming 'biatch', or a the extreme minority of idiots hitting on their woek peers or subordinates with the blanket notion that society is keeping women down. Of course, my arguments regarding diminishing sexism carries no weight since I am a middle aged white guy, but what I see with respect to 'gender inequality' is in no small measure a by product of the growing pains women and men are exhibiting as they strugle with the decisions of complicated lifestyles and trying to figure out the family / work balance.

"..constantly, subtly and overtly reminded that you are an "other" person..." Hm. I know lots of women. I would bet my bottom dollar that a quick survey would say the vast majority of them would not agree with that - and may go so far as to say its silly. Shrug.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I'm a humanist.

lol.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

anotherguy said:


> Women are also outpacing men in education - earning more bachelors and advanced degrees. Matching men in 2010 and surpassing them in both categories in 2011. Social stigma attached to women being all they can be? I dont think so.
> 
> The necessity for feminism.. has all but evaporated. I think some may find it empowering to take an activist position, but lets not conflate some miscellaneous bozos screaming 'biatch', or a the extreme minority of idiots hitting on their woek peers or subordinates with the blanket notion that society is keeping women down. Of course, my arguments regarding diminishing sexism carries no weight since I am a middle aged white guy, but what I see with respect to 'gender inequality' is in no small measure a by product of the growing pains women and men are exhibiting as they strugle with the decisions of complicated lifestyles and trying to figure out the family / work balance.


In my workplace, single women, childless married women and divorced women with grown and out of the house children are all preferred for job advancement over men with children at home. No one complains about this, in fact we laugh about it because the criteria is so transparent and the result is so obvious.

Outside work will always create conflicting priorities for someone with commitments to anyone other than themselves. A person with no competing priorities will be more attractive to employers. As men take a larger role in their families and homes, women without these commitments become preferred. To the extent that I am a role model for my kids, I promise that they will learn from me that family comes before work.

As I watch less qualified women getting promoted over me, I don't feel oppressed or embittered. At 5:30 I leave to do things for my family while they stay and continue working. Everybody knows and accepts this. It is my choice and I wouldn't have it any other way. Whenever I think about the (mostly women) still in the office working, I don't envy them at all even though they live in bigger houses, drive nicer cars and get treated like they are more important (which they are).


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Lydia said:


> In my opinion, women who boast feminism and hate men aren't true feminists - they are sexists, and judge others on their gender. I believe in true equality, and even if a woman decides she would like to stay home and depend on her husband - that doesn't make her less than any other woman. However, women should still have the opportunities and recognition in our country that men have. We should still be able to hold jobs, be paid the same, be respected the same, etc. Sadly, I'm not sure this will ever happen because of the long-running sexism that has been, and is still in, our society - not to mention the extreme sexism in our world.


:iagree:

I can't imagine anyone not believing that all people should have the same rights and protections under the law. That was the original tenet of feminism. And there are many places where women still do not have these same basic rights, which is tragic.

What is also tragic, though, is the more radical sexist arm of feminism, and the resultant sexist backlash from that. And while we may be able to legislate more equal rights and protections, we cannot legislate people changing their attitudes and their prejudices. That starts within ourselves - one person at a time.

I myself do prefer the word 'humanist' defined as 'a person having a strong interest in or concern for human welfare, values, and dignity.'


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

FrenchFry said:


> ...This is already long, but I could go on and on. This isn't even all the media influences, the re-enforcement by authority figures, whatever. This isn't even what has just happened to me as an individual but what I shared in common with other women. But the biggest slap in the face I and others repeatedly get is the "shrug" after sharing all of this and the discounting of yet another affected voice.


To be clear - the 'shrug' I inserted at the end of my comment was indicating non-surprise that females I know would not buy into the 'constantly, subtly and overtly reminded of being the 'other' person', and not shrugging off an 'yet another affected voice'.

I could critique each of your anecdotes, but really - its not going to advance anything here. I do get your points - and still believe thats social acceptance of women as equals in just about every facet of society in the US is both broadly and deeply accepted. I would even speculate that if I were to ask you if you felt that you could do anything you choose, you might agree with me. I understand (I beg, bear with me) the grindstone of oppression and its effects, I have been a student of it for years.

My characterization of feminism as anachronistic does in fact make light of unacceptible behaviors that do exist obviously, that was sloppy - but does accurately reflect the reality that those behaviors are now widely shunned. Cat calling? The 'Articulate' thing??!! Assault? As if THAT is the norm - It is not, sorry - and I do believe the bulk of sexual assault goes unreported. ( http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv10.pdf ) And yes, Norway ranks higher than the US as do some other countries with respect to sexism, but the bulk of those differences come from things like generous maternity leave and socialized child care.

Easily a thread that will never end, I can see. I best get out soon while the gettin' is good... I think several people pointed that out early on...


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## tennisstar (Dec 19, 2011)

I am certainly not a man-hater (I love men), and I'm not sure if I'm a feminist. Maybe in some ways, but not in others. 

I appreciate a man holding the door open for me or paying for my lunch/dinner, but I certainly don't expect it. When I dated (over 10 years in adulthood between marriages), I paid as often as men paid. I didn't expect a man to treat me just because he was a man. 

I have a higher education and make more than my husband. I don't hold this over his head, and really, it benefits us both. I don't feel like being a woman has kept me from excelling in my field and I'm paid the same or more than most men in the field. 

I am very happy, though, that women in the past fought for equal rights. I believe both men and women are equal. It does aggravate me when I hear some men say that women should stay home and do domestic things while men should work. I have a good brain, and I like using it. It gives me pride and makes me feel good about myself to have a career. I don't forget about or sacrifice my family for that career, though, and I would certainly never be accused of being a workaholic. 

I worry about those who want to limit women's reproductive rights, as this is very important to me and most women. 

One thing I do get aggravated with women about, though, is those who think because they have young children, they should get "favors" at work. Hey, you get paid the same amount as me. I shouldn't have to do parts of your job because I don't have small children at home and you do. My life is important to me, too, and I don't like picking up other women's work and seeing them get out of work early all the time or come in late because they have children. I know how hard it can be to combine work and having young children - I did it too - but stop asking those of us without small children to pick up the slack. I can only imagine it aggravates men greatly, as it aggravates me!


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## tennisstar (Dec 19, 2011)

Oh and one more thing, I don't live in an alimony state (we have very limited alimony). I don't agree with women getting tons of alimony and the man living in a small apartment while the woman lives it up on the man's salary. Ladies, we wanted equal rights. That means equal responsibilities. I think our family legal system is archaic and needs to be updated for changes in society, since women have equal access to jobs and near equal earning power.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

If the movement would have been titled "equalist" instead of feminist nobody would have had a problem with it. Don't we all want to be viewed as equals?


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## SockPuppet (May 16, 2011)

*Dean* said:


> I know many success women. I'm a gentleman.
> 
> I open doors and wait for a woman to go first.
> 
> ...


Sexist!!!! I dont always open doors for people, but when I do, I do for men and women alike. Thats equality. I must be a feminist.... Although the idea of a walking dildo amuses me. Honestly, if I were a walking dildo you couldnt hold anything against me... Then again, with a name like SP, can you really take seriously anyways?


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

None of this is neither here nor there. The world's biggest ideological I am Woman Hear Me ROAR! is going to rape and pillage her ex if the laws are in her favor to do so. That's just human nature, common sense and what you pay lawyers to do. And from anecdotal experience of the couples I've known in life where the wife is the cheater and who files for divorce - that's an even BIGGER inducement to screw him out of something else because.....well that's their nature, isn't it?


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Runs like Dog said:


> None of this is neither here nor there. The world's biggest ideological I am Woman Hear Me ROAR! is going to rape and pillage her ex if the laws are in her favor to do so. That's just human nature, common sense and what you pay lawyers to do. And from anecdotal experience of the couples I've known in life where the wife is the cheater and who files for divorce - that's an even BIGGER inducement to screw him out of something else because.....well that's their nature, isn't it?


Forget cheaters, they deserve nothing in my opinion. As for women after divorce, if screwing their ex is so profitable...then why are the overwhelming statistics showing that women fare worse post divorce financially than men? 
Men often cite child support yet I wonder why men haven't risen up in droves to change child custody arrangements. Women get primary custody because of age old gender stereotypes that women are the nurturers/caregivers and men are the providers. Hence women get custody of the children and men write the check. Yet those very same men that moan about this are the very same people who cling to these man = provider and woman = childraiser. You can't have it both ways. 
BTW, not referring to YOU Runs. I was responding to your post in general.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

no offense taken. my age group is a little older than yours, so custody and child support are more flexible and informal arrangements. in either case it speaks to what they WANT not what they do. my point is that everyone screws everyone else given the chance. 

friend of mine was a family lawyer until one of his clients pulled a gun out in court and tried to shoot everyone. divorce court is filled with sick psychopathic angry zoids. one of my oldest acquaintances threatened to murder her ex husband in open court and then lashed out in a 5 minute obscenity laced diatribe at the judge before leaping the table and trying to strangle whoever got in her way. she's pretty strong it took 3 troopers to hold her down before they maced and tased her. 

It's not about money. It's about pure hate. The purest thermonuclear hate there is. If you could bottle it you could throw OPEC in the garbage.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Runs like Dog said:


> no offense taken. my age group is a little older than yours, so custody and child support are more flexible and informal arrangements. in either case it speaks to what they WANT not what they do. my point is that everyone screws everyone else given the chance.
> 
> friend of mine was a family lawyer until one of his clients pulled a gun out in court and tried to shoot everyone. divorce court is filled with sick psychopathic angry zoids. one of my oldest acquaintances threatened to murder her ex husband in open court and then lashed out in a 5 minute obscenity laced diatribe at the judge before leaping the table and trying to strangle whoever got in her way. she's pretty strong it took 3 troopers to hold her down before they maced and tased her.
> 
> It's not about money. It's about pure hate. The purest thermonuclear hate there is. If you could bottle it you could throw OPEC in the garbage.


Oh don't I know it. My parents divorce took 3 1/2 years and was epic level hate. 38 years of marriage. So fun to witness this....even as an adult.
My point is that while these examples are extreme, most marriages don't end that way. They end with indifference and often times men get upset that they are not given the same parenting arrangements as women. Well gee. Aren't those the same men who clung with a death grip that their role was that of provider and the woman's role was that of nurturer? 
If men really wanted equal parenting rights, they would rise up and toss aside these myths that women are the only gender who can nurture. Until then, women will win custody of children hands down. Sorry to say, men can only blame themselves on this. 
Oh, and 75% of family court judges are men. Sooooo men award custody of children to women and marginalize a mans fatherhood? Where are all the men rising up and demanding their rights to parent their children. How come these a-hole judges keep getting elected?
Nope, it's women who cause all of this. Yup.


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## nicky1 (Jan 20, 2012)

feminism has made impressionable young women into freelance prostitutes who dont even charge and the murderers of the innocent unborn....the movement was not about equal opportunities or equal pay or other reasonable things that was the emotional wheelbarrow it was wheeled out as, it was about and always is about destroying the family unit, socialism does this as well, women set the bench mark for a moral society and men will always go lower if they can, so now we have huge social problems over 2 now 3 generations, divorce and unmarried mothers at an alltime high in the history of the world, men are lost and have no self worth as the head of his family, the feminist leaders are in my opinion pure evil through an through, the evidence is now out for all to see.


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## surfergirl (Jan 27, 2011)

So nicky1....what are you doing to fix this awful problem the feminist have created?


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## nicky1 (Jan 20, 2012)

it is beyond repair surfurgirl, and feminism in only a part of the decay of western society, i dont hold men unaccountable by any means


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## 30Mom (Jan 21, 2012)

I used to consider myself a feminist. I'm now realizing that it's not a female-male issue. I'm not about advocating for more rights for women. The issue is a social justice issue. 

If it were men that were not getting equal rights and are not being treated equal, it would be an issue that concerns me. For instance, domestic violence against women and men is a problem in my eyes.

That's just me.


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## surfergirl (Jan 27, 2011)

nicky1 said:


> it is beyond repair surfurgirl, and feminism in only a part of the decay of western society, i dont hold men unaccountable by any means


We are all accountable for the society we have created, either through the actions we have taken to make a positive difference or by chosing to sit back and allowing the status quo to continue. 

Either way, by doing or not doing....we have all played a part in the way society is today.

Eventhough I do not indentify with any one particular faction of the many different groups of feminist out there - I am a feminist and I am proud to say that I am. I also wear many other hats but for this post...it's my feminist one.

Two years ago I would not have said that, in fact back then I would make a point of letting people know just how anti-feminist I was - simply because I could never find a place within the movement that gelled with who I am. I did that out of the ignorance of not understanding what feminism could mean.

I still don't completely understand everything about feminism, the whole thing is just so complex - it's easy to become lost in the details. 

It actually wasn't until I joined this forum and was given the opportunity to read posts by some of the more well informed feminist amongst us (men and women) that I started questioning my anti-feminist beliefs. I started researching feminism through reading articles and feminist blogs and books.

What I have learned is, that while I don't agree with everything I have read or heard and I still don't fit nicely in to any one box - I am a feminist simply because I choose to use my voice and my presence to make a difference in this world for the better.

Being feminist doesn't mean you can't be feminine. It doesn't mean you can't have traditional values or want to care for those you love. You don't have to be a man-hating ball breaker, who wants to take over the world. You don't have to think, do or "be" like a man at all (if you are female). 

Being a feminist in today's world simply means understanding that you have a choice to make this world a better place for the women out there who don't have or can't find their voice, then setting about living your life in a way that supports that choice.

Once you get rid of all the details....it's really, really simple.


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## CrazyGuy (Dec 30, 2011)

I see so many post from people that call themselves feminist because they are for equality. I call that normal not feminist. I do not think the feminist movement wants equality. I do not think you need a label if you are normal.

I work in a male dominated industry. For every 100 job applications there might be 1 female. It is a guarantee that the female will we hired. If that female is a good worker fine, I have no problem with that. There are a few I was happy to work next to. I could even say I wish that I worked with more women. Often though they are under qualified. For some reason they are afraid to fire the females for the same reasons that I would get fired. So instead there are promoted to an easy management type position. It is funny to walk into the air conditioned part of the business, nothing but women that could not cut it out on the floor. How can you call this equality when 99% of applicants are men and 85% of management is women. The few times I walked into the office I had seen anti male crap posted on the boards. One was a sing that said "what women get in a divorce" and showed a women driving a car with testicles hanging from the mirror. If I put something up like that in my work area against women I would be fired on the spot. This was made perfectly clear in the "sensitivity training" programs that I had to take every year.

I am not sure who is worst about the roles that women are expected to play. Dinosaur men or other women. I see more women that look down at other women for being a stay a home mom and vice versa. As a dad that takes time and goes to my kids school events, I have heard this chatter though the moms that are there. 

It is the norm on 95% of commercials and tv shows for the man to be depicted as stupid or inferior in some way. Even kids shows. The Simpsons, Bart and Homer are always doing something stupid. Drake and Josh where always out smarted by there little sister. How many times do we have to see a guy get hit in the nuts on america's funniest home videos. Even House is dysfunctional although smart. There is still the dumb blonde type scene but often that is not the main character. Like the read head on Victorious. Why is this the norm?

Do I just look at things the wrong way? Everybody likes to play victim. 

I will say that I also hold doors open for both men and women. I never had a man get angry for me doing that but I did have a few women give me attitude.


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