# Questions for LD wives



## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Ladies I want you to think before answering. Do you actually have LD or just can't get in the mood with your husband?
Do you see other men and think " oh yea. I would like some of that"? Thanks in advance for your replies.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Thound...I felt LD for my husband in my first marriage. Yes, I wanted a piece of others, but not him.

It was very confusing.

I did not understand it myself.

I loved him but was not sexually attracted to him. But I was never LD, in fact I was always HD.

The odd part is, he was LD, not me.

He wanted sex, but not enough to actually strive to get any.

I do not like dissing my ex, so I don't talk about these things very often on this forum. But it might be helpful so I am opening up here.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> He wanted sx, but not enough to actually strive to get any.


Care to expand on that?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

He literally has gone years without sex, easily. If sex was presented in front of him with no effort on his part, he would be happy to have sex. Otherwise, he is happy not to.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> He literally has gone years without sex, easily. If sex was presented in front of him with no effort on his part, he would be happy to have sex. Otherwise, he is happy not to.


Kinda hurts your self esteem dosent it. I know it hurts mine.


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

Thound said:


> Kinda hurts your self esteem dosent it. I know it hurts mine.


Exactly. Men who are "late bloomers" and have little sex late are basically doomed to a life of frustration. You can read all the books on how to please women but they can smell inexperience.

*NOTHING is more revolting to a woman than a man with a low number.*


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

My ex-h actually had a very high number.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

I guess I'm struggling to find out if she is having hormonal problems, or if she just doesn't want sex with me. Almost everyone here knows my story. And we do have sex weekly, but I know she just does it for me, and I don't want to live that way. The way I figure it, I on have maybe 25 years left if I'm lucky, but I want to feel loved and desired. I want my wife to love me while I'm here and mourn when I pass. Oh well enough of the pity party.


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## AgentD (Dec 27, 2010)

I don't know if I'm LD or not really. For example, I have always found Bradley Cooper to be hot looking, but if he came walking in my house, butt naked and standing at attention, I really don't think I would be interested.


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> My ex-h actually had a very high number.


A man who was OK going for years at a time without sex had a "very high number" ?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Yep. Women dig him. They threw themselves at him, and he didn't turn them down. But he doesn't go in search of it.


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Yep. Women dig him. They threw themselves at him, and he didn't turn them down. But he doesn't go in search of it.


I was reading your blog and you wrote that ESP's can sense each each and seek each other out. Why would women throw themselves at him?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

The blog is about my current husband, and on this post I'm talking about my ex-husband.

My ex-husband was low drive, my current husband is extremely sexual.

But women dig both of them and the women who threw themselves at my ex-h ended up finding out it wasn't that great. The ones that threw themselves at my current husband found it WAS really great.

The sex drive of a man can vary quite a lot. Both of my husbands had a very high number, but my current husband's is much higher. My first husband was in the 50 or so range, and my current husband, I would be afraid to guess.

Edited to add: My ex-h is a very lovable, "cute" guy. Chicks dig that and that is why they threw themselves at him...not because he is so sexual. They just hoped he was, but he isn't.


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

My ExH is the same way. Has a pretty high number, but in the 5 years we were married, we only had sex 3 times. When he was USMC and a competitive bodybuilder though and didn't have to pursue or even do much more than show up to get a piece, he was more than happy to partake. He just didn't ever want it enough to go after it, apparently.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> He literally has gone years without sx, easily.


That sounds beyond LD...more like zero drive.




Thound said:


> I guess I'm struggling to find out if she is having hormonal problems, or if she just doesn't want sx with me. .


You probably already know that there are countless reasons for her lack of drive. Mine is LD as well, and I've pretty much given up on trying to figure out why.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Not zero drive, just low drive. Zero drive would mean he would turn it down even when it was given freely. He never did.

As I said in the first post...he simply wasn't willing to do anything to have sex. It was either just there, or it didn't happen.


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

COGypsy said:


> My ExH is the same way. Has a pretty high number, but in the 5 years we were married, we only had sex 3 times. When he was USMC and a competitive bodybuilder though and didn't have to pursue or even do much more than show up to get a piece, he was more than happy to partake. He just didn't ever want it enough to go after it, apparently.


There seem to be men who have innate qualities (ripped or an aggressive alpha male) that cause women to throw themselves at them. Women usually settle for average men because the first group of men have a harder time holding down a job. This is why I think there are so many men posting here about LD wives.

Their LD wives were NEVER attracted to them in the least but maintained a facade to keep a stable provider. It's hard for a woman to be attracted to a stable provider but they have to put up with them in order to raise families and advance socio-economically.

Look at bluebellwoods thread in this section for an example.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Thound, as best as I can remember, back when I was "LD" there were several factors involved and one of them was a loss of attraction toward my husband. But at the same time, I didn't desire another man. I had fantasies of a handsome stranger taking me away from my life, but didn't have fantasies of having sex with other men.

I can completely related to wanting to feel desired. 

Does your wife know that you feel like she doesn't desire you?


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

ntamph said:


> There seem to be men who have innate qualities (ripped or an aggressive alpha male) that cause women to throw themselves at them. Women usually settle for average men because the first group of men have a harder time holding down a job. This is why I think there are so many men posting here about LD wives.
> 
> Their LD wives were NEVER attracted to them in the least but maintained a facade to keep a stable provider. It's hard for a woman to be attracted to a stable provider but they have to put up with them in order to raise families and advance socio-economically.
> 
> Look at bluebellwoods thread in this section for an example.


Well most women are average and their stock declines as they age, furthermore many of the "highest" stock males would NOT marry an average woman let alone be faithful. The case with LD wives is dependent upon many other factors, largely its at the chemical level. Although I would agree with you to some extent that many LD wives are simply with ____ husband because of a million other factors with physical attraction being one of the least weighted on the list of inputs.

Also in Bluebell's thread she is attracted to her husband, he is just not sexually aggressive.


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

Goldmember357 said:


> Also in Bluebell's thread she is attracted to her husband, he is just not sexually aggressive.


bluebellwoods says that her ex's caused her terrible emotional distress and were generally bad people but they gave her amazingly good sex. Her fiance can't do this and she is frustrated but stays because he doesn't treat her like crap. This is a classical trade off. She dated the men who gave her great sex but is now marrying a stable provider and putting up with his inability to satisfy her.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

Thound said:


> I guess I'm struggling to find out if she is having hormonal problems, or if she just doesn't want sex with me. Almost everyone here knows my story. And we do have sex weekly, but I know she just does it for me, and I don't want to live that way. The way I figure it, I on have maybe 25 years left if I'm lucky, but I want to feel loved and desired. I want my wife to love me while I'm here and mourn when I pass. Oh well enough of the pity party.


Yep, I asked my wife to have the hormonal testing done because of LD. She tested normal. Turned out it was us all along ... She created a beta partner intentionally and I was too clueless to resist. She lost all respect and admiration for this beta weakling. Still have a lot to work through, but that guy is never coming back or I will dropkick his a$$ out of town. MMSP is an eye-opener.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Hey Jung....so you liked MMSL, right? You felt it helped you out?

Does that book not say explicitly that women DO WANT SEX and this is something every "alpha" (to use their terms) man knows? (Yes, it does say that which I know because I've read it).

So how does that jive with your other assertion that women want sex less than men?

I don't get some of you guys who seem to think two opposing things at the same time.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Jung_admirer said:


> Yep, I asked my wife to have the hormonal testing done because of LD. She tested normal. Turned out it was us all along ... She created a beta partner intentionally and I was too clueless to resist. She lost all respect and admiration for this beta weakling. Still have a lot to work through, but that guy is never coming back or I will dropkick his a$$ out of town. MMSP is an eye-opener.


Cookie Cuttered you out of your old self.

Some of the old qualities may not have been perfect but overall was a good candidate and it would be attractive to the one's your interested.

Time to bring that guy back alive.

Figure out what parts where killed or shrunk and bring them back to life by feeding them. Some of it will come back quickly. But you will need density in the some of these old spaces, because you've likely been out of it for years... 

We can always use these times where we have been beaten back, to focus on some new qualities or unmatured qualities which would have always been good for us to have.


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## IndiaInk (Jun 13, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Well, once again, this seems to presume that MEN have high sex drives and WOMEN do not....which is not the case.


(Well, I wrote this for Jung's thread, which got deleted. Fortunately it fits here too.)

Oh, one needn't PRESUME it at all. 

Men definitely DO have stronger sex drives *RELATIVE *to women. That fact is incontrovertible. And there's nothing wrong with acknowledging that fact. 

"Relative--is the key word here."

Because, you see, though this fact is true (in a relative sense), the point you're making is ALSO true.

When men come here complaining about their "low drive" and "low desire" wives, I think it's important for these guys to acknowledge that 99% of the time, it is a case of his wife having Low Drive and Low Desire FOR HIM specifically (i.e her husband)

They are not making themselves attractive to her (and at the root of it all, in order for a wife to see her man as SEXUALLY attractive, she needs to see him as powerful).

So, to the OPs point, I do understand...it would be kind of a wife to not sexually starve her husband. Because his sex drive is so much stronger...and it does feel like 'starvation'....and, some guys do have wives who understand this. 

But many wives don't (or simply won't) dole out even pity sex, because

A.) they're just not feeling "sexually attracted to you", (because you have ceased to stoke those flames within her)

AND B. ( and this is really the key point to this response)

B.) because their sex drives are* indeed intrinsically WEAKER *than males, they won't 'sleep' with their husband out of their own personal sexual desperation. Because their sexual desperation level is NO WHERE close to male's. In fact, it would be very dangerous to the survival of her offspring, if was as strong.

(an observation I've made, through reading these boards, is that women are far more satisfied by self stimulation than men are...that can scratch the 'sexual- itch' satisfactorily...female 'sexual desire' and 'sexual lust' are far more mercurial feelings...and they must be evoked by *specific male behavior*.


(also, I won't get into detail here because it's off topic, but regarding the example faithfulwife gave (i.e. of the posts from women in sex-starved marriages as demonstrations of a strong female sex drive) 

Most of the time, those marriages are NOT a demonstration of a wife's intrinsically higher sex drive compared to her husband.

I suspect in the vast majority of those cases, the testosterone-filled husband actually still has the *relatively stronger sex drive*...and the problem actually has WAY more to do with his drive being _relatively_ *weaker* when geared towards *his wife specifically.*


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

IndiaInk said:


> (Well, I wrote this for Jung's thread, which got deleted. Fortunately it fits here too.)
> 
> Oh, one needn't PRESUME it at all.
> 
> ...


:smthumbup:

I strongly agree. There is something about committing your life to a woman and promising to protect her and provide for her and her children that torpedoes her sex drive for that particular man but it can be easily reactivated by some random guy at work or at a bar who has "confidence" (whatever that is).

Also, thank you for acknowledging that, in general, men's drives are much higher than those of women.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Some of you guys are the same ones who proclaim that "women only want the top genetic specimins" and apparently for those guys, women DO want sex CONSISTENTLY.

So is it that women have low sex drives, or is it simply that there are not that many great genetic specimins? It can't be both.


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Some of you guys are the same ones who proclaim that "women only want the top genetic specimins" and apparently for those guys, women DO want sex CONSISTENTLY.
> 
> So is it that women have low sex drives, or is it simply that there are not that many great genetic specimins? It can't be both.


Women will share good specimens (all of my male friends in a FWB situation are personal trainers/ripped and usually don't make that much money). Women will not share an accountant (average Joe) in a FWB but an alpha male will make them go crazy with lust.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

ntamph said:


> :smthumbup:
> 
> I strongly agree. There is something about committing your life to a woman and promising to protect her and provide for her and her children that torpedoes her sex drive for that particular man but it can be easily reactivated by some random guy at work or at a bar who has "confidence" (whatever that is).


What he has is newness, and his sex signal is escalated because he's "out on the prowl".

It's attractive for people who haven't seen it enough to know exactly what it is.



ntamph said:


> :
> Also, thank you for acknowledging that, in general, men's drives are much higher than those of women.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

So ntamph...women DO want sex with alpha males, right?


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> So ntamph...women DO want sex with alpha males, right?


Yes. They will even SHARE alpha males with other women because the alpha male has no incentive to be faithful to one woman. Alphas give very little but get a lot back from multiple women. Betas must bring in good money, give massages and be excellent fathers for maybe once a week missionary. Betas can't generate attraction like alphas can.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Right.

So women DO want sex then. There is your answer to all of this crap. If a woman doesn't want to have sex with YOU (any man) then obviously it is because you are not alpha (according to your own formula).

And she WILL want to have sex with your alpha friend.

So why all this round and round about how women want sex LESS?

They simply have higher standards for what turns them on.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

This is all great and everything, but I think the thread is drifting pretty far from the information that Thound was looking for.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Not really. Men want to know why women don't want sex but then the same men will proclaim women DO want sex, just only with a certain type of man. That is what MMSL is all about.


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Right.
> 
> So women DO want sex then. There is your answer to all of this crap. If a woman doesn't want to have sex with YOU (any man) then obviously it is because you are not alpha (according to your own formula).
> 
> ...


Because only a minority of men are alphas. For the majority of men who are betas, for all intents and purposes women are LD.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> He literally has gone years without sex, easily. If sex was presented in front of him with no effort on his part, he would be happy to have sex. Otherwise, he is happy not to.


FW, your ex sounds very like my ex-H. He was asexual.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

"For the majority of men who are betas, for all intents and purposes women are LD."


You mean, they are LD for THEM. Not that they are LD.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

ntamph said:


> *NOTHING is more revolting to a woman than a man with a low number.*


Maybe that's the case for you but for me personally a man with a high number is more of a turn off than a man with a low number.
A hot guy who is selective is a massive turn on for me.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Hey Jung....so you liked MMSL, right? You felt it helped you out?
> 
> Does that book not say explicitly that women DO WANT SEX and this is something every "alpha" (to use their terms) man knows? (Yes, it does say that which I know because I've read it).
> 
> ...


@Faithful Wife, 

Please do not confuse me with Batman ... I made no such assertion as to gender based LD/HD. I gave an example, to illustrate emotional starvation (does that term exist?), nothing more. Of course, it is my example, so it does suggest my reality or former reality. MMSL and I firmly support the notion that women love sex, a fact which I re-learned recently.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

ntamph said:


> Women will share good specimens (all of my male friends in a FWB situation are personal trainers/ripped and usually don't make that much money). Women will not share an accountant (average Joe) in a FWB but an alpha male will make them go crazy with lust.


I don't really agree with this. I know lots of really average looking chubby dudes that have multiple FWB options. Would a personal trainer have more options? Probably. But in general a confident men of any size/shape shouldn't find getting dates to be all that difficult. Provided he approaches women that are in his league.


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> "For the majority of men who are betas, for all intents and purposes women are LD."
> 
> 
> You mean, they are LD for THEM. Not that they are LD.


Yes. The OP was coming from a male perspective (the majority of whom are beta).


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> Not really. Men want to know why women don't want sex but then the same men will proclaim women DO want sex, just only with a certain type of man. That is what MMSL is all about.


Yes really. Thound wanted to hear from LD wives as to whether they were LD in general or towards their husbands in general, not the merits of MMSL or your feud with ntamph.

Done being a thread monitor, but let's show some respect.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Jung....thank you and I will not confuse you with Batman anymore. I'm glad you know that we women DO WANT SEX.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

If Thound has a complaint with me on this thread, he can let me know GTdad.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

I have had my thyroid removed so I know what LD feels like....I have always normally been been HD and for the first time when they took out my thyroid and tumor I discovered what it was not to have a sex drive at all. It s**ked big time!!! It took the better part of 8 months to get my meds regulated and get my drive back.....I went from no drive..... to LD..... to nympho (hubs loved that stage) ......to LD .....to finally HD. Gotta love that synthetic thyroid hormone. If its hormonal it won't matter.....I loved my hubby and I took care of his needs during this time but personally I had no interest in sex or needs that needed taken care of during that time. He said it was really hard on him because it felt like he was being serviced....that their was no passion. It is hard for me to hear...but I did try to make sure he felt loved.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> I don't really agree with this. I know lots of really average looking chubby dudes that have multiple FWB options. Would a personal trainer have more options? Probably. But in general a confident men of any size/shape shouldn't find getting dates to be all that difficult. Provided he approaches women that are in his league.


I don't know what planet you live on but it ain't Earth.


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

TiggyBlue said:


> Maybe that's the case for you but for me personally a man with a high number is more of a turn off than a man with a low number.
> A hot guy who is selective is a massive turn on for me.


A hot guy who is "selective" with a low number is kind of like a square circle.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

ntamph said:


> A hot guy who is "selective" with a low number is kind of like a square circle.


Which is why it was sooo appealing.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

ntamph said:


> Yes. They will even SHARE alpha males with other women because the alpha male has no incentive to be faithful to one woman. Alphas give very little but get a lot back from multiple women. Betas must bring in good money, give massages and be excellent fathers for maybe once a week missionary. Betas can't generate attraction like alphas can.


If Dr. Beta here is married, why would he need to generate attraction from his partner? I fear we are confusing married with non married sex here...

I'm not talking about the outlier slobs who spend every waking hour drinking Duff's Beer with their buddies.


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

Just to be clear: I hate that things are like this. I am absolutely not an alpha and have been very well aware of this my entire life. I wish that relationships weren’t like they are.

I know that a lot of women here hate me but I wish I could come home to (actually, I wish me and my wife could BOTH come home to our children because I would want her to be fulfilled in her career as well as family and to grow as a person, not just a mom) a woman that I could really get to know and to grow from as a person. I really want deep intimacy (sexual and emotional). I wish I could give her a massage because I love her and not have to worry about generating thoughts of betaness in her mind. Likewise, I wish I could be the best dad possible without this destroying any sexual attraction she might have for me.

I’ve just never seen this behavior rewarded or desired by women.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Thanks for getting real, ntamph.

I am sorry things are not the way you wish they were in your marriage.


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Thanks for getting real, ntamph.
> 
> I am sorry things are not the way you wish they were in your marriage.


Thanks but I'm not married.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

ntamph said:


> Just to be clear: I hate that things are like this. I am absolutely not an alpha and have been very well aware of this my entire life. I wish that relationships weren’t like they are.
> 
> I know that a lot of women here hate me but I wish I could come home to (actually, I wish me and my wife could BOTH come home to our children because I would want her to be fulfilled in her career as well as family and to grow as a person, not just a mom) a woman that I could really get to know and to grow from as a person. I really want deep intimacy (sexual and emotional). I wish I could give her a massage because I love her and not have to worry about generating thoughts of betaness in her mind. Likewise, I wish I could be the best dad possible without this destroying any sexual attraction she might have for me.
> 
> I’ve just never seen this behavior rewarded or desired by women.


There are select few women, who will desire their man, the more he is loving, the more he is responsbile, the more he loves and provides for her family, it will generate security and love for him and she will want to please him.

It seems in a majority, where physical attraction was probably the main relationship driver... That these responsible and loving guestures, dampen and soften the spark of "attraction"...


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Er...I guess I mean...I am sorry your marriage ended and that you didn't get to experience the type of love and sex life you had hoped for.


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## Batman4691 (Jun 24, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Jung....thank you and I will not confuse you with Batman anymore. I'm glad you know that we women DO WANT SEX.


I never said women don't want sex. Where did you read that?

Just stated that, in general, men have a higher sex drive than women. Plain and simple.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

ntamph said:


> I don't know what planet you live on but it ain't Earth.


So you are saying that all of your guy friends that don't resemble Hercules have a hard time with the ladies? My experience is different. Yes I have one male friend who is a 38 year old virgin but he is a complete introvert. On the flip side I have a lot of guy friends who aren't as good looking as I am but have had a lot more sex. Does every woman they date look like a movie star, definitely not. But sexless is the last word I would use to describe them.

I do have one friend who was in a sexless marriage for years, but it wasn't his looks that made him unsexy to his wife. It was his attitude. Yes, I do live on earth, and yes there are lot of average guys out there with swag.


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Er...I guess I mean...I am sorry your marriage ended and that you didn't get to experience the type of love and sex life you had hoped for.


I've never been married. I WANT to be married. I want to love one woman for the rest of my life. God knows how much I want to be a dad (I had a great example in my own dad). I'm just terrified that it won't work out because I've seen failure in marriages my entire life.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

It isn't that plain and simple Batman...but I understand why you believe that way.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

ntamph....I hear you. Marriage is terrifying actually. The threat of divorce is present in EVERY marriage, whether there is good sex or not because statistically, we all only have a 50/50 chance...or even less for me, since mine is a second marriage.

I do everything I can to be the best wife I can be, my husband does the same...and I still have no guarantees that this will be forever.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

ntamph said:


> I’ve just never seen this behavior rewarded or desired by women.


Then you are either choosing to associate with the wrong women or you are actively turning them off with your negative and sexist attitudes.

This notion that women only like sex with alphas is ridiculous. Yes, there are some guys that attract a lot of attention from females. But it is also just a certain type of female that is willing to be in a herd of others flinging themselves at what is likely an arrogant and narcissistic prick.

My advice to someone not already married would be to open your eyes and your mind to new possibilities.

My advice to someone like OP who is married is to first investigate health issues, then overall psychological and emotional ones. It could be that he is turning her off with specific behaviours and attitudes. It could also be that she is dealing with various other issues that are stealing her energy and seslnse of well being.


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## Batman4691 (Jun 24, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> It isn't that plain and simple Batman...but I understand why you believe that way.


It's not just me that believes that way. I could list numerous studies that support the fact, but you don't or won't listen to reason.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Did you read any of the links I provided?


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

FrenchFry said:


> That kind of behavior gets heavily rewarded and reciprocated in my marriage.
> 
> But I'm a feminazi so YMMV.


Your telling me that it raises your desire to have a man who cherishes you and loves you, and is kind to you?

That's going against the grain of TAM.


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## ntamph (Apr 23, 2013)

Yeah, I'm starting to think that a lot of my ideas are pretty stupid too. I have seen what I think is absolutely batsh*t crazy behavior by women competing for what I think are obviously trash men. But they are a minority of women.

I think it's confirmation bias. I need to get out more and find better quality women. I need to improve myself too. I know that things don't have to be crappy like this.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

You should hear Simply Amorous talk about how much she loves her man....who by her own admission has more beta than alpha....theirs is the type of marriage many people envy.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

ntamph said:


> Yeah, I'm starting to think that a lot of my ideas are pretty stupid too. I have seen what I think is absolutely batsh*t crazy behavior by women competing for what I think are obviously trash men. But they are a minority of women.


From a outside perspective it looks like it's because these men are attracting them, from seeing it from close up the type of woman who does this is mostly very insecure and more interested in the competing than the man they are competing for (if they get the man and not another woman it means they are hotter/better the other women, pure ego boost).


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

treyvion said:


> Your telling me that it raises your desire to have a man who cherishes you and loves you, and is kind to you?
> 
> That's going against the grain of TAM.


It certainly raises my desire for a man, too. My SO treats me like gold, and I do everything in my power to please him. I would have zero desire for a man who didn't make me feel loved, respected and cherished.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Not really. Men want to know why women don't want sex but then the same men will proclaim women DO want sex, just only with a certain type of man. That is what MMSL is all about.


If MMSL and the like(NMMNG) are as effective as they're made out to be, this is very telling of the mental attitudes of women that would fall for it..


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

"the women that would fall for it".....and that would mean....???


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

TiggyBlue said:


> From a outside perspective it looks like it's because these men are attracting them, from seeing it from close up the type of woman who does this is mostly very insecure and more interested in the competing than the man they are competing for (if they get the man and not another woman it means they are hotter/better the other women, pure ego boost).


:iagree:

Wanting a man who you know, given the chance, will treat you badly, is borne of low self-esteem / self respect, IMO... Something no real 'alpha' would tolerate in his life for one minute.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Thound said:


> Ladies I want you to think before answering. Do you actually have LD or just can't get in the mood with your husband?
> Do you see other men and think " oh yea. I would like some of that"? Thanks in advance for your replies.


When I was LD in my marriage, it was more an issue of not wanting sex with my husband. I probably didn't think about that at the time, but now I see it is true. Tons of unresolved resentments led me to shut down emotionally and physically with him. 

Did I still have a sex drive? Yes, but it was more directed toward fantasy (Wolvreine: drool!) than toward available men. I know it's not a nice thing to admit, but the fact of the matter was that I could have sex when I DID feel the urge, and he is a very good lover. My husband didn't turn me down the two or three times of month I craved it. I don't know if my story would be different if he had. 

When I thought about what was missing in my marriage, I didn't long for the sex--I longed for the support and the intimacy and a life without the constant tension. 

I finally was able to successfully address the resentment and I'm back to HD that is very compatible with, if not a little stronger than, my husband's. If there is a caveat here, it's that I now also am turned on sexually by real, available men quite frequently these days.

I think there were other factors involved in my LD, but I know buried resentment was #1. I stay vigilant about making sure I'm not "letting things go" because I'm well aware of where I'll end agin if I do.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> "the women that would fall for it".....and that would mean....???


Meaning, that if no nookie while beta and nookie-a-plenty while alpha (with superficial rather than substantial changes) then the women who play along with it and are awed by the "transformation" are truly not worthy of a relationship, marriage, etc.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

John...you missed my point entirely. I was mocking that exact concept.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> If Thound has a complaint with me on this thread, he can let me know GTdad.


No complaints. I am enjoying all of the responses. My only requests, is that all of us resound to others with respect. Everyone has different opinions and I respect all of them, I may not agree with all of them, but I respect them all. And thanks for all of the replies.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> John...you missed my point entirely. I was mocking that exact concept.


One can never be too sure given the near Biblical references to these two books and the supernatural powers bestowed upon them. 

I have read NMMNG and a bit of MMSL and a lot of the alpha-beta pseudo theories and I do not se them as viable for addressing serious relationship issues. While not as simplistic as The 5 Love Languages, such books are not the answer to serious intimacy issues in a long term relationship or marriage...

The truth is, there aren't simple answers to be found.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

john117 said:


> One can never be too sure given the near Biblical references to these two books and the supernatural powers bestowed upon them.
> 
> I have read NMMNG and a bit of MMSL and a lot of the alpha-beta pseudo theories and I do not se them as viable for addressing serious relationship issues. While not as simplistic as The 5 Love Languages, such books are not the answer to serious intimacy issues in a long term relationship or marriage...
> 
> The truth is, there aren't simple answers to be found.


MMSL did give a strategy in which to modify your blueprint, which is designed to improve the basic attraction signals in a male currently in a long term relationship or marriage.


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## IndiaInk (Jun 13, 2012)

Batman4691 said:


> It's not just me that believes that way. I could list numerous studies that support the fact, but you don't or won't listen to reason.


Yes.

This is just silly.

It's not a 'belief' it is a BIOLOGICAL fact that men have a higher intrinsic sex drive. 

Just consider, chemical castration for sex offenders, the drugs used ultimately *LOWER testosterone *production (in either the testes or ovaries ) 

Or consider the HUGE DISPARITY in the male:female ratio of the perpetuation of sexual crimes.

And, my only issue with Faithfulwife's stance is that I don't find it helpful for people to refuse to acknowledge facts as facts.

Moreover, I can readily acknowledge the fact that men have higher sex drives, and STILL AGREE with the general premise of everything she's written.

These two truth's don't NEGATE each other.

BUT the acceptance of the reality of women's lower intrinsic drive EXPLAINS why these women (mostly) DO NOT have sex IN SPITE of their lack of attraction. 

Conversely, men will absolutely sleep with women they are NOT attracted to BECAUSE they have a MUCH STRONGER attraction to 'sex'* in general*.

Goodness, just read about the 'sad' sexual dynamics that form in male prisons and I think you'll find it clear that men have a VERY POWERFUL innate sex drive (and the standards of attraction will plummet precipitously (i.e. heterosexual men becoming 'not so' heterosexual) if they're denied it for an extended period of time).

This is not the case with women. It never has been. It never will be. 

And it's totally unnecessary to deny this 'Law of Nature' to argue your VALID point.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

IndiaInk said:


> Yes.
> 
> This is not the case with women. It never has been. It never will be.


What? Because you think women in prison aren't having sex with other inmates? Even when they were heterosexual to begin with?

Sorry, guess again.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

TiggyBlue said:


> From a outside perspective it looks like it's because these men are attracting them, from seeing it from close up the type of woman who does this is mostly very insecure and more interested in the competing than the man they are competing for (if they get the man and not another woman it means they are hotter/better the other women, pure ego boost).


:iagree:. There's also the star-f*cker mentality, where the goal is really just name-dropping bragging rights. Also pure ego.


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## Batman4691 (Jun 24, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Did you read any of the links I provided?


The one "link" you provided was of another TAM thread. :scratchhead:

So you would like me to scour another TAM thread that is 20+ pages long for links to studies and scientific data that support your theory, that in general, most women have just a high a sex drive as men?

I'm sorry, Faithful Wife, but I do not have the time to peruse thru that many pages for links in support of your position.
I would really appreciate it if you could at least give me some of these links directly as I have done for you below that support my position.

_From Department of Psychology Case Western Reserve University_
http://carlsonschool.umn.edu/Assets/71520.pdf

_From WebMD:_
Sex Drive: How Do Men and Women Compare?

_From "How Stuff Works"_
HowStuffWorks "Do men have a stronger sex drive?"

Do men really have higher sex drives than women?

Study: 40 Percent of Women Report Sexual Problems, Most Don't Care | Fox News


Faithful Wife, I really do appreciate and agree with your opinions and advice to most of the threads here on TAM, and wish you and your very lucky husband all the best.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

always_alone said:


> What? Because you think women in prison aren't having sex with other inmates? Even when they were heterosexual to begin with?
> 
> Sorry, guess again.


Yh that's what I was just thinking.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

IndiaInk said:


> Yes.
> 
> This is just silly.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

Studies have shown that men _generally_ have stronger sex drives than women, but there's a lot more to it than desire / biology alone...

A woman's libido, _generally_, isn't anywhere near as straightforward as a man's, as it tends to be more fluid and complex and is greatly influenced by a variety of factors (social, cultural and situational factors...) 

The following explains the differences pretty well:-

http://www.hawaii.edu/hivandaids/Ge...Sociocultural_Influences_on_the_Sex_Drive.pdf


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

treyvion said:


> MMSL did give a strategy in which to modify your blueprint, which is designed to improve the basic attraction signals in a male currently in a long term relationship or marriage.


Attraction signals?

The 'man up' genre of self improvement books all assume very simplistic thought processes and even simpler mental models of male behavior... Maybe there is some "never do laundry" DNA encoded in there but I would not depend on the stereotypes and assumptions of said books for anything other than entertainment... 

("Pung no wash animal skin in river again because Pung brother Gung wash animal skin near river and no see willy mammoth step on him and now Gung gone and Pung mate Zung no sleep with Pung because Pung no help around the cave").


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## IndiaInk (Jun 13, 2012)

always_alone said:


> What? Because you think women in prison aren't having sex with other inmates? Even when they were heterosexual to begin with?
> 
> Sorry, guess again.


No. I'm quite aware that they have sex each other. (I have genuinely studied this subject rather rigorously)

It doesn't even COMPARE with what occurs in male prisons.

It absolutely doesn't. 

And I'm surprised that this would need clarifying.

But then, I'm also surprised that it'd be necessary to convince anyone of the strength of the intrinsic male sex drive as compared to female drive.

Truly...I don't understand this willful denial of something so patently certain at all. Frankly, it just makes me sad.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

It makes you sad? LOL! So sorry to hear that.

Here is where I am coming from...if anyone is going to define sex drive as the drive to procreate, then I'm going to say women want to have sex more than men do, their drive is higher.

If you are going to define sex drive as the drive to have an orgasm, then men's drive is probably higher.

If you are going to define sex drive as the drive to have connected intimacy with a partner, then women's drive is probably higher.

If you are going to define sex drive as the drive to get your brains f*cked out, then women definitely have the higher drive for that.

Which/what drive are you trying to define?

My husband is a Sex God. He has seen how sexual women really are. I am bi-sexual and have seen it, too. It is on par with men. If you or any man saw what he has seen and what I have seen, perhaps you would understand what I'm talking about...hint: I'm NOT talking about orgasms. When you get picky about it and want to talk about who wants to have more orgasms, I will grant you that men have a higher drive to have ORGASMS. As for all the other reasons and ways we have sex drives for, it is a toss up and therefore, equal.

There is no evidence anywhere that can dispute what I'm saying because the drive for ORGASMS is not the same thing as the drive to have a baby, to be close and intimate, or to be objectified and roughly f*cked.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

IndiaInk said:


> But then, I'm also surprised that it'd be necessary to convince anyone of the strength of the intrinsic male sex drive as compared to female drive.
> 
> Truly...I don't understand this willful denial of something so patently certain at all. Frankly, it just makes me sad.


To be honest it baffles me that some think they can convince the opposite gender what there sex drive is or how it compares to others.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

And Batman...No I don't expect you to read through that thread. However, it did contain what you asked for and I provided it. I don't care if you do or don't read through it...I just responded to your question. I have no investment in whether you read any of it or not. But I also know you ARE invested in believing what you believe, so I get it.


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## IndiaInk (Jun 13, 2012)

always_alone said:


> What? Because you think women in prison aren't having sex with other inmates? Even when they were heterosexual to begin with?
> 
> Sorry, guess again.


No. I'm quite aware that they have sex each other. (I have genuinely studied this subject rather rigorously)

It doesn't even COMPARE with what occurs in male prisons.

It absolutely doesn't. 

And I'm surprised that this would need clarifying.

But then, I'm also surprised that it'd be necessary to convince anyone of the strength of the male sex drive as compared to female drive.

Truly...I don't understand this at all. Frankly, it just makes me sad.


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## IndiaInk (Jun 13, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> It makes you sad? LOL! So sorry to hear that.
> 
> Here is where I am coming from...if anyone is going to define sex drive as the drive to procreate, then I'm going to say women want to have sex more than men do, their drive is higher.
> 
> ...


Yes absolutely, willful denial of things that have already been demonstrated as *absolutely true* makes me VERY SAD.

Because it makes me realize that the use of rational arguments can remain forever fruitless. And where do you go from there? 

But I'm a med student. I believe in the application of science, logic and reason. And I find it helpful, informing and comforting ---not threatening.

I *define* 'sex drive' *definitionally* (i.e. as the drive to seek sex and sexual encounters). Men have a considerable edge on women in this regard. This is proven.

Honestly, none of the sub-categorizing that you've done and the assertions you made can be proven one way or the other. (really, the sub-categories themselves would be 'tricky' to definitively prove and adequately define).

But as I've now written many times, your argument (about the loss of a wife's attraction for her husband and the causes for it) is not negated by acknowledging that men have a stronger sex drive.

And these subcategories you've offered are effectively a 'straw-man' argument, and quite irrelevant to the initial point of contention.

But if you want to maintain that men and women have the same drive to for sex, knock yourself out. I tried.


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## IndiaInk (Jun 13, 2012)

TiggyBlue said:


> To be honest it baffles me that some think they can convince the opposite gender what there sex drive is or how it compares to others.



Oh I don't think people can convince other people of much in general.

Of course, I don't really understand why *convincing *is necessary after a fact has been proven as true.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Nothing has been proven as true, even the scientific community continually say that there is no definitive answer as to the differences in fe/male drives.

Most of the research is done on very small sample groups.
Female placicity (sp) means that while women may have a good drive it can be situational dependant meaning that they still have a drive but they are turned off by their current mate. Men on the otherhand will still engage in sex even if they are not as into their mate (general).

Most research shows that the figures are far closer when participants believe they are being monitored by lie detectors as opposed to self reporting.

Cultural and societal issues mean that men over report and women under report the reality of their sex lives and drives.

And even in the reports that have been linked to, the differential between wo/men is not massive as many men here would have people believe.

Sex crimes are more about violence then sex, it is not reasonable to say that because men commit more of these crimes then men have higher drives. No it means that men are more violent than women.

The OP asked if the LD was due to the wife not being into the husband, in many cases it is that simple. She has a drive alright but not for the man she is with.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Holland said:


> Nothing has been proven as true, even the scientific community continually say that there is no definitive answer as to the differences in fe/male drives.
> 
> Most of the research is done on very small sample groups.
> Female placicity (sp) means that while women may have a good drive it can be situational dependant meaning that they still have a drive but they are turned off by their current mate. Men on the otherhand will still engage in sex even if they are not as into their mate (general).
> ...


Another factor that has to be taken into consideration is the rigid control exercised over women's sexuality throughout the ages. Which begs the question, is the higher erotic plasticity in women due to nature or nurture? 

One only has to look at some of the "Number of Sex Partners" threads here on TAM to learn that, even today, it isn't deemed particularly acceptable for women to have had the same number of sex partners as men... Women are _expected _to be more discerning, so even if it is in our natures to be promiscuous, it isn't in our best interests to be so - let alone admit it...

I don't believe that it's reasonable to control and suppress half the population's sexuality for eons, then expect them to be as open about their sexuality as the other half - who were allowed / encouraged to follow their nature...


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

IndiaInk said:


> Oh I don't think people can convince other people of much in general.
> 
> Of course, I don't really understand why *convincing *is necessary after a fact has been proven as true.


Because most 'facts' are someones theory with selective evidence to strengthen the theory.
That's not proving something true that's given some evidence of why this could be the case.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

treyvion said:


> MMSL did give a strategy in which to modify your blueprint, which is designed to improve the basic attraction signals in a male currently in a long term relationship or marriage.


So why does MMSL work? (I do not doubt for a second that the concept is spot on). I assume most readers here are familiar with Attachment Theory. (Secure, Insecure-Avoidant, Insecure-Anxious, Insecure-Fearful). Moving on the continuum from beta to alpha is akin to adopting more Insecure-Avoidant attachment and less Insecure-Anxious attachment. Why?

Attachment theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Insecure-Anxious is strongly attracted to Insecure-Avoidant: 

The Anxious-Avoidant Trap | aloftyexistence

Alpha/Beta tendencies would still be important with a secure attachment, but would play a much smaller role. 

Secure model: You be you and I'll be me, You are not a reflection of me. I accept that you are different, and I am learning to love you because of those differences, not despite them.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

always_alone said:


> What? Because you think women in prison aren't having sex with other inmates? Even when they were heterosexual to begin with?
> 
> Sorry, guess again.


Forced prison sex is a means to achieve a forced emotional connection. I say this because it is the emotional connection that matters, sex is merely a way to attempt to establish this connection. Different people seek emotional connection in different ways ... "The Five Love Languages" basically speaks to this. 

You connect emotionally both actively and passively (as a receiver). You have a natural tendency to actively connect based on your passive preferences. Ex. I feel loved when when my partner offers words of admiration, so I will offer this to them "to fill their love tank".


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

always_alone said:


> :iagree:. There's also the star-f*cker mentality, where the goal is really just name-dropping bragging rights. Also pure ego.


This is what this is, most who engage in it won't admit it.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

IndiaInk said:


> Oh I don't think people can convince other people of much in general.
> 
> Of course, I don't really understand why *convincing *is necessary after a fact has been proven as true.


Are we talking about scientific facts, which will prove true time and time again provided the conditions are the same? Or social facts, which change as the environment changes, as peoples resolve changes, as the rules change?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Jung_admirer said:


> So why does MMSL work? (I do not doubt for a second that the concept is spot on). I assume most readers here are familiar with Attachment Theory.....


It works in superficial cases or, if you want to use Attachment Theory, in cases where someone's fear can be used to manipulate them without addressing the fundamental issues that have caused the problem.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

john117 said:


> It works in superficial cases or, if you want to use Attachment Theory, in cases where someone's fear can be used to manipulate them without addressing the fundamental issues that have caused the problem.


Yes and No. If what you are saying were true, there would be little difference between MMSP and Calle Zorro.

Get A Happy, Satisfying, Enjoyable, Loving, Affectionate, Intimate, Sexual Marriage Relationship

Calle Zorro advocates replicating Alpha behavior, even if it goes against your basic motivations. To the extent MMSL and NMMNG help one rebalance one's natural alpha/beta balance, they are very basic therapy. IC helps me understand why I shifted my balance to the beta side based on my interaction with my environment and relationships.

There is nothing wrong with rebalancing yourself. I wouldn't bother trying to emulate alpha behavior, human cognition is much too sophisticated to be fooled. In short, the real, non-reflexive you is more than just OK, you are amazing. Kindest Regards-


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Jung_admirer said:


> Yes and No. If what you are saying were true, there would be little difference between MMSP and Calle Zorro.
> 
> Get A Happy, Satisfying, Enjoyable, Loving, Affectionate, Intimate, Sexual Marriage Relationship
> 
> ...


I stopped reading after:- 
_
"Men are generally wired by God to be logical and rational. If a man has a problem, he'll usually try to define the problem so he knows what it is that's bothering him and and then he'll try to find or create a solution.

But, that's NOT how God wired a woman to be. When a woman has a problem, she'll generally just "feel" the problem. She won't try to define it. She won't analyze it. She'll just keep looping the bad feeling that comes from the problem until it finally reaches a threshold after which she'll start moving AWAY from whatever or whoever she blames the problem on."_


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

Cosmos said:


> I stopped reading after:-
> _
> "Men are generally wired by God to be logical and rational. If a man has a problem, he'll usually try to define the problem so he knows what it is that's bothering him and and then he'll try to find or create a solution.
> 
> But, that's NOT how God wired a woman to be. When a woman has a problem, she'll generally just "feel" the problem. She won't try to define it. She won't analyze it. She'll just keep looping the bad feeling that comes from the problem until it finally reaches a threshold after which she'll start moving AWAY from whatever or whoever she blames the problem on."_


I agree ... it's the worst form of inauthentic behavior.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

john117 said:


> It works in superficial cases or, if you want to use Attachment Theory, in cases where someone's fear can be used to manipulate them without addressing the fundamental issues that have caused the problem.


I do agree with the basic assertion that IC is the proper forum to address the fundamental issues, what CG Jung calls, "having a conversation with your shadow". However, immediately dismissing MMSP and NMMNG as manipulative, seems to miss the opportunity to discover behavioral patterns (what therapists call a "narrative"). Changing behavior without addressing the source of reflexivity may be only a short term coping strategy.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

The disadvantages of "rebalancing" far outweigh the advantages if you're a defined, determined, and complex individual. 

Do you want your spouse to love the "rebalanced" you or you? If he or she falls for the rebalanced one, at some point you're both being set to fail. 

All the pop-psych books make very simplistic assumptions and even more simplistic generalizations. It may work with easily pliable 20 and 30 somethings but not with seasoned adults.

Ultimately such methods depend on the weaker minded side to "give in" to the male because of said Alpha male's "rebalancing" of being more Alpha. it may work in some cases, I do not dispute that, but all it is really is fear based behavior modification with little understanding of the basics. 

Think of it this way - to rebalance myself I would have to dress in better than academic clothing, lose 30 lb, have a hairstyle not reminiscent of Einstein, and act my age. Tall order, wouldn't you say? All for what? 

Do a cost benefit analysis of "rebalancing" for not so pliable not so 20 or 30 year doe eyed barely adults and you'll see that it all comes back to " I would never join a club that would have me as a member" Groucho quote...


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Jung_admirer said:


> I do agree with the basic assertion that IC is the proper forum to address the fundamental issues, what CG Jung calls, "having a conversation with your shadow". However, immediately dismissing MMSP and NMMNG as manipulative, seems to miss the opportunity to discover behavioral patterns (what therapists call a "narrative"). Changing behavior without addressing the source of reflexivity may be only a short term coping strategy.


how much help does one need in discovering their or their spouses behavioral patterns?

Unless one reads paranormal teen romances where the good guy turns into a werewolf after midnight, most people are fairly simple to read (but very complex to understand nonetheless) with few surprises...

I do not dismiss them as being manipulative - only as being simplistic. The basic assumption of action --> consequences still holds but without improving our understanding of why the actions take place or what importance the consequences may have.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

john117 said:


> how much help does one need in discovering their or their spouses behavioral patterns?


Depends how deep one wants to look under the covers at oneself. Since ~80% of behavioral reaction is reflexive, which is by definition subconscious, I suggest there is a great deal to explore.



john117 said:


> I do not dismiss them as being manipulative - only as being simplistic. The basic assumption of action --> consequences still holds but without improving our understanding of why the actions take place or what importance the consequences may have.


IC is, in part, about learning to recognize subconscious cognitive patterns. Books like NMMNG can begin to shine a light on our behavior patterns that were largely reflexive. In that way NMMNG functions like a gateway to the understanding you speak of. It's a tool to be used, not an adoptive state of mind.

"We read to discover our truest selves."
-Ernest Hemingway

<OP, I am sorry for the thread jack >


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## Batman4691 (Jun 24, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> And Batman...No I don't expect you to read through that thread. However, it did contain what you asked for and I provided it. I don't care if you do or don't read through it...I just responded to your question. I have no investment in whether you read any of it or not. But I also know *you ARE invested in believing what you believe, so I get it*.


You provided nothing. 

Now honestly, *who is the one that is invested *in believing the way they believe???? 

I'm not the one that operates a blog/website that is entitled "My Husband Is a Sex God, and has to mention it in nearly every response they make to a thread. Good grief.

I'm done with this thread.


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## FrenchFry (Oct 10, 2011)

That's her sig, dude.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Batman...yes I did provide many links, you just didn't look for them nor would you have read them if you did.

India Ink...where do the bonobos land in your "facts"?


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## Batman4691 (Jun 24, 2013)

FrenchFry said:


> That's her sig, dude.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


But she mentions it in her responses quite frequently, and you make my point for me about just who is invested. Thank you.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Maybe you missed the point Batman. Men that are in crappy marriages with a LD wife are invested in believing that it is all the woman's fault and that most women are LD.

It is far easier to believe that most women are LD than for a man to face the reality that he may well be the cause of his wifes LD.


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## Zookeepertomany (Jun 27, 2013)

Holland said:


> Maybe you missed the point Batman. Men that are in crappy marriages with a LD wife are invested in believing that it is all the woman's fault and that most women are LD.
> 
> It is far easier to believe that most women are LD than for a man to face the reality that he may well be the cause of his wifes LD.


Exactly, I second this as a former LD.


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## Batman4691 (Jun 24, 2013)

Holland said:


> Maybe you missed the point Batman. Men that are in crappy marriages with a LD wife are invested in believing that it is all the woman's fault and that most women are LD.
> 
> It is far easier to believe that most women are LD than for a man to face the reality that he may well be the cause of his wifes LD.


Oh, I see,...... If a husband has a wife that is LD, he is the cause, and if a woman has a husband that is LD, he is also the cause. 

That's what I've been reading here lately on TAM.


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## Zookeepertomany (Jun 27, 2013)

If he/she was not LD from day one and absent any hormonal issue, then yes typically something in the relationship changed and typically it's in response to the partner's attitude. This is not normally a very sudden change but a semi-gradual one.


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## Batman4691 (Jun 24, 2013)

Zookeepertomany said:


> If he/she was not LD from day one and absent any hormonal issue, then yes typically something in the relationship changed and typically it's in response to the partner's attitude. This is not normally a very sudden change but a semi-gradual one.


So you say other factors can't "typically" be the cause, but rather it's the HD partners attitude? 

What about all the other factors that most certainly take a toll on sex in a marriage? Children, work, bills, extended family, and numerous other things.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Batman said: "Oh, I see,...... If a husband has a wife that is LD, he is the cause, and if a woman has a husband that is LD, he is also the cause. 

That's what I've been reading here lately on TAM."

Actually, this is what MMSL says. And it literally says that. It says if your wife isn't into you, it is because you are somehow turning her off. I don't know if you are into that book or not, I'm just pointing out that that IS what it says.

As for me Batman, I am sorry you are offended by my self-promotion. I do cop to that...but I am spreading a message. One that says "married people can have a really great kinky sex lifestyle and be madly monogamous and in love". Regardless of what you might think of me, that really is all I'm doing with my blog. I have had tremendously positive feedback.

But again...I cop to self-promoting and I'm sorry if it is tacky. I am simply madly in love with and horny for my husband all the time and I am compelled to talk about it...write about it...blog about it. I have done this for years actually, before my blog. I have finally now just started getting it on one actual place that is my own. I do not make any money from it, btw.

Nuff on that...(wait, actually I should go on even LONGER just to help you prove your point that I'm blabbering on and on about it). 


One question for anyone who wants to grab it: is there a sex drive disparity between males and females in ANY other mammal?


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## Zookeepertomany (Jun 27, 2013)

Batman4691 said:


> So you say other factors can't "typically" be the cause, but rather it's the HD partners attitude?
> 
> What about all the other factors that most certainly take a toll on sex in a marriage? Children, work, bills, extended family, and numerous other things.


Your not reading responses, your looking at them.

I said "typically something in the relationship changed " everything you mentioned is in fact a CHANGE. I never said anything specific, hence the word something. What the change is/was is unique to each relationship and it could be several but what matters is how you responded to each in your relationship. 
Did you in fact continue to meet her needs, not what you think she needs or have convinced yourself what her needs are. His needs, her needs good book.


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## Batman4691 (Jun 24, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> As for me Batman, I am sorry you are offended by my self-promotion. I do cop to that...but I am spreading a message. One that says "married people can have a really great kinky sex lifestyle and be madly monogamous and in love". Regardless of what you might think of me, that really is all I'm doing with my blog. I have had tremendously positive feedback.


I am not offended by it, but just thought it somewhat unusual of you to state that somehow I was "invested" in believing that men have higher sex drives than women, when I am not the one "self-promoting" thru a blog a highly charged "kinky" sex lifestyle. 

However, I do find it offensive, sexist and hypocritical that some here blame men for their wife's LD, then turn around and coddle a woman whose husband is LD. 
Somehow he is emotionally abusive, doesn't pay enough attention to her, doesn't help around the house, watches too much porn, or advised to investigate a possible affair on his part.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Um...I've never said I wasn't invested in believing that a highly sexually charged marriage is a good thing and is possible. Yes, I certainly am INVESTED in that belief and PROMOTING it. Not sure why you think that would be an insult to me, to be accused of being invested in my own blog and the ideas I write within it? :scratchhead:


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Anyone want to tackle my question? Is there a sex drive disparity between the males and females of any other mammal?


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## FrenchFry (Oct 10, 2011)

Yeah, the only investment I have in her blog is that I read it and like it. I don't even have a current dog in this fight, the only	drives I keep tab on are mine and my husbands.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Batman4691 (Jun 24, 2013)

Zookeepertomany said:


> Your not reading responses, your looking at them.
> 
> I said "typically something in the relationship changed " everything you mentioned is in fact a CHANGE. I never said anything specific, hence the word something. What the change is/was is unique to each relationship and it could be several but what matters is how you responded to each in your relationship.
> Did you in fact continue to meet her needs, not what you think she needs or have convinced yourself what her needs are. His needs, her needs good book.


I read your post, did you? You stated that, "_*....yes, typically something in the relationship changed and typically it's in response to the partner's attitude."*_

Your stating here that typically the HD partner's attitude changed towards their spouse because something changed in their relationship. Right?

So my wife being stressed out while I am at work because she is home, taking care of our 3 small children, and "isn't in the mood" that night is because of my attitude?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Um...I've never said I wasn't invested in believing that a highly sexually charged marriage is a good thing and is possible.


There is a vast difference between possible and likely. 

If you want to break it down by country things get a bit more entertaining, and by the time you add age and income levels to the analysis it is too convoluted.

What diminishes this hyper sexual marriage possibility in my view for most people is factors far more practical and measurable than sexual desire. Every time I read a "1x-2x a day to age 60" posts I wonder not about the MTBF of one's jewels but about their ability to put aside 1-2 hours a day for nookie and their state of mind in jumping in the hay with no concern for screaming infants, PTO meetings, 401k's and college tuitions. 

To that, add the obvious reality of doing it very frequently with the same partner, and unless his name is Christian Gray or Anastasia Steele forget about it. People don't generally cheat because they don't get nookie, they cheat because they want non boring nookie that their commutes partner may not be able or willing to provide.

It all comes down to priorities and resources, I guess.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

:smthumbup: My blog is all about non-boring nookie so I totally agree with ya on that!


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Ultimately nookie is nookie. What people get their thrills from is the chase


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

mmm......the chase......

Agree on that one, too. YUM!


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Anyone want to tackle my question? Is there a sex drive disparity between the males and females of any other mammal?


Absolutely. Most mammals only have sex when the female is in heat. I only know of humans and porcupines have sex pleasure. Glad I'm not a porcupine though.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Thound....where in the animal kingdom is there a disparity in sex drive between male and females?

You said "absolutely".

Most mammals only have sex when the FEMALE desires/needs/wants it, yes. Clearly she does have a sex drive then, right? And most males will only go after females when the time is right for mating. The male and female are then obviously matched in their drive, their desire, their reason for having sex at all is the same.

Now if it is natural and normal for us as mammals to have a disparity between male and female sex drive...reason for sex...sexual desire...whatever you want to call it...then it would reason we might see this in another mammal? Any other mammal?

FF - yes, the bonobos is where I am going. But more than that....where else in nature is this "fact" that males have a higher sex drive than females?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Also Thound...dolphins and bonobos have sex for pleasure and I have heard of a few bird species that seem to do so. Yet still...it appears to be an equal desire.


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## Batman4691 (Jun 24, 2013)

Threetimesalady said:


> IMO, many women who are called LD are not actually LD...Their problem being they are not married to a man that they could eat alive...He does not thrill them...He is a good guy, but not the kind that she will shed her clothes for or jump in the bushes and let him make love to her...
> 
> Some women who had been HL early in marriage will let this happen to their mind...Maybe he has gained a lot of weight or grown older looking and he doesn't any longer turn them to mush...Unfortunately, this happens to a woman...This does not happen to a man anywhere as much as it happens to a woman...His sexual need is on the outside of his body...He needs mating....So he can mate even if his spouse has lost her figure and sometimes her looks...There is a vast difference between the sexes in this capacity....
> 
> ...


Once again, another post that it is the man's responsibility to carry the load for the couples sex life, and his fault if something is amiss. 

Do you seriously believe this?

If this is true,.... woman are a very shallow species, that are lead around by their lust rather than their love. Which I thought men were guilty of most of the time.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Batman4691 said:


> Oh, I see,...... If a husband has a wife that is LD, he is the cause, and if a woman has a husband that is LD, he is also the cause.
> 
> That's what I've been reading here lately on TAM.


Batman, of course this isn't the case, but there is always the _possibility_ that it is. I don't think it's helpful for anyone, man or woman, to simply assume that the lack of sex in their relationship is due to their partner being LD... Labels might make us feel better about ourselves, but they rarely improve the issue.

All those years back when I was in a sexless marriage, the first person I looked at was myself. I kept my body extra well-toned, paid even more attention to my grooming / hygiene regime, read as much as possible so that I always had something interesting to discuss with my H, made sure that there were always candles and flowers on the table, maintained a romantic ambience in the bedroom and initiated sex. When this didn't work, I looked a little closer at my H, sought counseling - and when this didn't work finally accepted that the problem lay with him and divorced him.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Did you ever find what his problem was? I mean, passing on such a setup would be highly unlikely without a good (for him) root cause.

The more I read the thread the more accurate my not-quite-ready-for-DSM-VI terminology of "stupid" and "evil" in LD becomes...


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

john117 said:


> Did you ever find what his problem was? I mean, passing on such a setup would be highly unlikely without a good (for him) root cause.
> 
> The more I read the thread the more accurate my not-quite-ready-for-DSM-VI terminology of "stupid" and "evil" in LD becomes...


If your question was in response to my post, John, yes, I did. After 6 years of self-analyzing/agonizing, I was told by my/our therapist, who we had seen separately and together, that my H was asexual. Had he admitted this, rather than leading me to think that I was abnormal and/or going crazy, I would have had a lot more sympathy for him... Even asexuals crave the warmth and love found in a marital relationship but, IMO, they need to be totally upfront about their 'orientation,' because virtual celibacy isn't for everyone - and it certainly wasn't for me.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Wow. The next question, tho, is how does one get thru the dating / courtship process while married to uber LD's?

I'm speaking from experience here. I did not expect that my newly minted girlfriend from the exotic locale of Farawaystan was exactly Sex Goddess material (if FW could pardon the pun ) given what I knew about their Borat style culture. Still she did admirably well, not as, well, "well" as some of her compatriots but well enough for 25 years until the Rapture at least...

But I can't help but wonder whether people pay more attention to the exact shade of purple bridesmaid dresses should be or which island to honeymoon to instead of some critical thinking about exactly who the hell they're about to marry... 

We all know the joke about wedding cake and all that but are we this much blind sighted by the allure of a permanent (or not ) bedmate that we throw common sense out the window?


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

john117 said:


> Wow. The next question, tho, is how does one get thru the dating / courtship process while married to uber LD's?


Unfortunately, I'd been brought up to believe in virginity until marriage (I'm showing my age here). During our 2 year dating period I had absolutely no inkling that foreplay would be about all our sex life would amount to - unless I took the lead. He was a very attentive, tactile man, but had _zero _passion for sex.


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## Batman4691 (Jun 24, 2013)

Threetimesalady said:


> Read the words again*...This has absolutely NOTHING to do with a man....*


_"Their problem being they are not married to a man that they could eat alive..."_

_"He does not thrill them..."_

_"He is a good guy, but not the kind that she will shed her clothes for or jump in the bushes and let him make love to her..."_

-And my favorite:
_"Maybe he has gained a lot of weight or grown older looking and he doesn't any longer turn them to mush..."_

Tell me again that this has absolutely NOTHING to do with a man.


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## Batman4691 (Jun 24, 2013)

Cosmos said:


> I don't think it's helpful for anyone, man or woman, to simply assume that the lack of sex in their relationship is due to their partner being LD... Labels might make us feel better about ourselves, but they rarely improve the issue.


I'm not the one that invented the term LD. Never even heard of it before. 
I myself came to TAM looking for answers to why my wife's sex drive had dropped off in the last 5 years. 
I was then told by many here that she was LD which is simply a term meaning "low sex drive". 
And for whatever reason that a spouse is withholding, denying, nonresponsive, or not in the mood for sex with their SO, the term LD does fit. 

True, the term "low drive" may not be the case if your "not in the mood" spouse is getting pounded by a co-worker in a cheap motel 5 times a week, but in the context that the spouse is not sharing themselves freely with their own spouse because they "aren't in the mood", they can be rightly termed LD for them.


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## Batman4691 (Jun 24, 2013)

Threetimesalady said:


> Think of what you are saying...This is her libido not yours.....


95% of my last post were *your words *repeated back to you, not mine.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

LD means low desire a lot of the time.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Batman4691 said:


> I'm not the one that invented the term LD. Never even heard of it before.
> I myself came to TAM looking for answers to why my wife's sex drive had dropped off in the last 5 years.
> I was then told by many here that she was LD which is simply a term meaning "low sex drive".
> And for whatever reason that a spouse is withholding, denying, nonresponsive, or not in the mood for sex with their SO, the term LD does fit.
> ...


That's what I was saying.

And the same is true for men. Men who are not showing alot of attraction or having sex with their wives, in about a half of these LD situations, they are actually doing that with someone else.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Batman4691 said:


> I'm not the one that invented the term LD. Never even heard of it before.
> I myself came to TAM looking for answers to why my wife's sex drive had dropped off in the last 5 years.
> I was then told by many here that she was LD which is simply a term meaning "low sex drive".
> And for whatever reason that a spouse is withholding, denying, nonresponsive, or not in the mood for sex with their SO, the term LD does fit.
> ...


If someone has normal libido and suddenly stops wanting to have sex with their partner, I don't think it's because they've necessarily developed low libido. Low libido is more to do with hormones, IMO, rather than a sudden lack of desire for one's partner. 

If someone is is getting "pounded by a co-worker," it's unlikely because of low libido... Just a lack of respect and desire for their partner - and very poor values.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

john117 said:


> The more I read the thread the more accurate my not-quite-ready-for-DSM-VI terminology of "stupid" and "evil" in LD becomes...


Well, DSM does have some pretty ridiculous categories, so you might get yours in there, but I think you're on the wrong scale entirely. More likely ones are overall sexual desire and/or anxiety, stress, etc., vs sense of well-being and security.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Ultimately it boils down to whether the individual is aware of their situation (and its impact) and not caring i.e. "evil" or blissfully unaware of their situation (and its impact) i.e. "evil". Or somewhere in between.

Personally I doubt the ignorance is bliss part in many cases; even if culturally one is brought up to think of sex as "dirty" one hopefully is out of the cultural influence by the time they marry... And so on. There are some cases where this could be true like my wife, the lovely Dr. Mrs. LD, but not very common compared to the "evil" side. Even the lovely Dr. has much more "evil" than "stupid" in her play book..


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

> NOTHING is more revolting to a woman than a man with a low number.


There's been ten pages since this post on the first page, so I'm sure there's comments about this already but - this is crap. My husband had one partner before me (his ex-wife). I don't find that revolting or sad or pathetic. 

We have an average to an above average amount of sex per week. So - yeah, I'm going to debunk this whole "women only want players" junk.

Maybe step one to understanding women is understanding we aren't all the same. So making statements about what -all- women obviously want or need if your first mistake. Find out what -your- woman wants or needs.


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## Batman4691 (Jun 24, 2013)

Starstarfish said:


> There's been ten pages since this post on the first page, so I'm sure there's comments about this already but - this is crap. My husband had one partner before me (his ex-wife). I don't find that revolting or sad or pathetic.
> 
> We have an average to an above average amount of sex per week. So - yeah, I'm going to debunk this whole "women only want players" junk.
> 
> Maybe step one to understanding women is understanding we aren't all the same. So making statements about what -all- women obviously want or need if your first mistake. Find out what -your- woman wants or needs.


I am not really believing the whole "number" thing either. 
One of my first jobs was as a doorman at a busy downtown nightclub, and I saw plenty of 9's and 10's walk out the door at the end of the night with 2's or 3's, (based on my own judgment on appearance, of course).

I agree with you, good looks will only get a man so far with a woman. The hunky gorgeous stud may get their attention and draw them in for a second look, but they better have more to offer than washboard abs, a tight pair of buns and a mirror hung above the bed. What else you going to do the other 23 hours of the day?


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Batman4691 said:


> I am not really believing the whole "number" thing either.
> One of my first jobs was as a doorman at a busy downtown nightclub, and I saw plenty of 9's and 10's walk out the door at the end of the night with 2's or 3's, (based on my own judgment on appearance, of course).
> 
> I agree with you, good looks will only get a man so far with a woman. The hunky gorgeous stud may get their attention and draw them in for a second look, but they better have more to offer than washboard abs, a tight pair of buns and a mirror hung above the bed. What else you going to do the other 23 hours of the day?


She's going to work, worry about her own life and only pull out her beefcake when she wants to feel penetration, or if she feels like looking at it. Other than that it doesn't matter what he does or doesn't do. This scenario is not common but it happens.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

john117 said:


> Ultimately it boils down to whether the individual is aware of their situation (and its impact) and not caring i.e. "evil" or blissfully unaware of their situation (and its impact) i.e. "evil". Or somewhere in between.


You, of all people, should know that it isn't anywhere near this simple. Ignorance is not necessarily stupidity, it could also be lack of understanding or appreciation for a different perspective, long-held beliefs about sexuality or psychological defenses that stand in the way of awareness, or even poor communication skills on the part of the partner that make the SO feel as though (s)he is being asked to be the only one who ever compromises or sacrifices.

Similarly, failure to make adequate amends isn't necessarily 'evil' or uncaring. The SO could be trying, but failing, or could be unable to try satisfactorily because of deep-seated pain or resentment that makes it very difficult to open up or overcome above-mentioned psychological defenses.

We are not all perfectly rational and self-aware.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Im begining to think there is no ld or hd. I think it is all about control. I could be wrong, I was once before.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I certainly know it is not as simple as "evil" or "stupid", but at the end that is all it boils down to, no?

The studious Dr. Mrs. LD is no dummy academically but maintains, by virtue of cultural and other reasons and personal experiences and beliefs that "emotional attachment is for teenagers". She is afraid to acknowledge her own sexuality and fails to recognize many of the implications of such a one sided relationship. To her, a physical relationship is Lifetime Movie Network material, not what people do as part of a healthy relationship. The key here is ignorance.

Add poor communication skills (on all matters intimate) and inability to comprehend the reality of living here rather than her birth country and, as they say, ignorance is bliss. The same person also ignores her children emotionally. No surprise there.

The evil side is basically the stupid side (quotes around the words) but with some specific reason for acting this way, even if at the end the disadvantages of maintaining a life as sex free as possible dramatically overshadow the advantages. In other words, resentment central, fear of losing control, and the like. The key word is intentional.

She managed to nearly destroy my older daughters sanity with her frequent BPD episodes while the kid was in high school, struggling big time to get out of high school and out of the house really. It took several years of intensive therapy for my older one to deal with it.

Fast forward two years living away and the kid is a magna cum laude student at a very respected college with huge academic future plans. And of course the good Dr., the same one who can't find the high school on the map, wants to take the credit for being such a good parent.

Lolz galore as they say.


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## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

I was extremely LD...then I got sick. Real sick. I had a tumor inside my heart and required open heart surgery.

I don't know if being healthy did it, or my H suddenly deciding to be Alpha (because he had to), but I went from no D to thru the roof D as I recovered.

It's been 2 years, amd I'm still off the charts. Poor guy


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Sometimes a wake up call of some kind helps put things in perspective...


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## Batman4691 (Jun 24, 2013)

treyvion said:


> She's going to work, worry about her own life and only pull out her beefcake when she wants to feel penetration, or if she feels like looking at it. Other than that it doesn't matter what he does or doesn't do. This scenario is not common but it happens.


I agree. I guess that is what they call the "hook-up" culture of today, not unsimilar to the "one-night stand", "booty call", or having a "phuck buddy'. 
A very physically exciting lifestyle, but at the end of the day, one that can leave you feeling empty and alone.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

john117 said:


> I certainly know it is not as simple as "evil" or "stupid", but at the end that is all it boils down to, no?


Problem is, when you boil it down, you're left with no understanding, no compassion, and no solution. Just a truckload of resentment.

Surely a better outcome is possible?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

always_alone said:


> Problem is, when you boil it down, you're left with no understanding, no compassion, and no solution. Just a truckload of resentment.
> 
> Surely a better outcome is possible?


First, based on the many stories we have seen on TAM, things rarely turn around and better outcomes usually result from divorce, affairs, or open marriages. So, lets just say better outcomes may be possible, but not likely.

Second, no understanding and no compassion are integral parts of the menu of dealing with an LD. They come in unlimited servings free of charge. Someone that has to deal with the more heavy duty versions of LD especially know what I'm talking about. Resentment may be easier to handle if you know the root cause. Likewise a solution may be found once the root cause is found. The more resentment and evilness the harder it is to fix... Ignorance is bliss but more fixable than evil...


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

"Ignorance is bliss but more fixable than evil..."

So now it is Satan that causes LD?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> "Ignorance is bliss but more fixable than evil..."
> 
> So now it is Satan that causes LD?


LOLZ :smthumbup:

For any newcomers, the two words "evil" and "stupid" are a simple shorthand notation of my extensive observation of the lovely Dr. Mrs. LD aka my wife. 

Someone who does not understand that emotional connections are critical whether you're 15 or 55, well, that's a big "S" right there... With extra points for thinking this is still Farawaystan, that Dictator #2 is still in power (they're on #4 I think), and that you can maintain your 1% status in the Land of the Free etc. That's "S", "S", and "S" in case you keep score. 

Someone who keeps a resentment for five years because the apple of her eye (or something like that) decided on a non medical school career (how could she) with the full support of Dr. John here. This, along with some other unfortunate events caused the Rapture about 5 years ago, and instead of facing the reasons for resentment, she is busily regurgitating it daily for max effect. Dunno 'bout the rest of y'all but that's a big "E" on my board.

I wish I had time to work the "stupid" vs "evil" into proper publishable material. For now it'll have to do. In more practical terms, "S" is fixable with education and frank discussions, while "E" is fixable only after the resentments are aired out to dry and dealt with (which don't happen very often). From my research, the more towards "S", the more fixable it is, the more towards "E", the less fixable it is.


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