# The Propensity to Betray



## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

The most gut-wrenching moment of DD for me was when my mind kept showing me the picture of my husband coming home at nights for those 6+ years and lying beside me in the bed, knowing fully well he had been in contact with the AP prior to coming home. The most fearful feelings engulfed me because I realized I did not know who he was at all and after 14 years. I thought I knew, but I was wrong. It made me realize how vulnerable I had been. The closest person in the world to me, was not my friend and if he wasn't that to me, what was he? I imagined that if there had been no DD and we continued for another 14 years, when I would eventually pass away, she would probably show up at my funeral to console him...a stranger acting like a past co-worker of mine or his or something...A stranger to my children, my siblings, my parents...On and on...The thought blew me away...They would have gotten away with it seamlessly...

This is what I struggled with during the whole (false) reconciliation which has now lead to divorce (again). I am stuck in the sense that I do not know what to think of myself for having been so trusting and "at risk" at the same time. His ability to lie, hide etc...for secrets, a secret life...is flabbergasting, never mind his ability to keep me hooked via making me believe he is a Christian. He talked like a Christian, acted like a Christian but in the background he evidenced a legion, an alternate lifestyle. Betrayal on numerous levels. I had not been able to reconcile with his propensity to betray. All the other reconciliations required within a reconciliation became moot. 

How does one reconcile with one's-self for allowing this? Since he was capable of pulling it off for 6 years (that I know of), what else is he capable of?


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

Calibre1212 said:


> I am stuck in the sense that I do not know what to think of myself for having been so trusting and "at risk" at the same time....How does one reconcile with one's-self for allowing this? Since he was capable of pulling it off for 6 years (that I know of), what else is he capable of?


This is a tough question.

I don't think you, or any victim of infidelity, should kick yourself for trusting your spouse. Sadly, while most marriages avoid it, infidelity is nevertheless quite common so trust can only go so far in the face of real suspicions. Unless you ignored your suspicions, I think you will have to console yourself with the fact that you imply married a bad apple. You "allowed" his infidelity in the same way that someone allows cancer.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

I suppose there could be several reasons. 

For a guy, the thrill of the chase, sex addiction, addicted to wooing and seducing, the challenge of getting away with it and feeling special about that... as many as one can think of. 

But in the end there are certain facts- total selfishness, inability to be trusted, inability to really love another single person...

My personal belief (backed by one professional study I have read) is that for whatever their reasoning most people who betray do so with an addictive behavior. As such, it tends to make true the two statements that "once a betrayer, always a betrayer" and that some people have the propensity to betray and others do not. 

That is not to say that only those with such propensity can or will betray, but that it is the way many people handle stress in their life. Some people drink, some melt down, some take drugs, some betray... Not that it serves as a ready excuse, but it is their nature as a person. 

As to the 'once a betrayer, always a betrayer', (again, this applies to the vast majority, but not 100%), as it is an addictive behavior it is similar to an alcoholic. An alcoholic will tell you that even if they stay on the wagon for decades, they are still an alcoholic due to the propensity from within. An addictive trait betrayer has the exact same propensities due to such addiction that is a part of them. They may never in fact betray again, but that addictive propensity remains alive within them forever.

AGAIN, this does not describe 100% but for the strong majority.


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> I suppose there could be several reasons.
> 
> For a guy, the thrill of the chase, sex addiction, addicted to wooing and seducing, the challenge of getting away with it and feeling special about that... as many as one can think of.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

My WS has ALWAYS displayed addictive personality traits. Three of my four grandparents were/are alcoholics, my dad was an alcoholic, mom is now an abstaining drug addict, my first husband is an alcoholic. 

Clearly I have enough experience to feel comfortable around this personality type .


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Calibre1212 said:


> The most gut-wrenching moment of DD for me was when my mind kept showing me the picture of my husband coming home at nights for those 6+ years and lying beside me in the bed, knowing fully well he had been in contact with the AP prior to coming home. The most fearful feelings engulfed me because I realized I did not know who he was at all and after 14 years. I thought I knew, but I was wrong. It made me realize how vulnerable I had been. The closest person in the world to me, was not my friend and if he wasn't that to me, what was he? I imagined that if there had been no DD and we continued for another 14 years, when I would eventually pass away, she would probably show up at my funeral to console him...a stranger acting like a past co-worker of mine or his or something...A stranger to my children, my siblings, my parents...On and on...The thought blew me away...They would have gotten away with it seamlessly...
> 
> This is what I struggled with during the whole (false) reconciliation which has now lead to divorce (again). I am stuck in the sense that I do not know what to think of myself for having been so trusting and "at risk" at the same time. His ability to lie, hide etc...for secrets, a secret life...is flabbergasting, never mind his ability to keep me hooked via making me believe he is a Christian. He talked like a Christian, acted like a Christian but in the background he evidenced a legion, an alternate lifestyle. Betrayal on numerous levels. I had not been able to reconcile with his propensity to betray. All the other reconciliations required within a reconciliation became moot.
> 
> How does one reconcile with one's-self for allowing this? Since he was capable of pulling it off for 6 years (that I know of), what else is he capable of?


You made a very good point. He *was* legion.

Meaning that he carried within him, many. 

The loyal husband? Check! The proud parent? Check? The wild, wilful lover? Check! The adulterer? Check! Check! Check! _Check_!

But you don't need legion, you need one husband. And that's not him, is it?


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

Thank you all so much. I needed these replies. I guess I married a mad man...twice...what does that say about me? Jeezzzz....Thank God I can can divorce him twice.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Calibre1212 said:


> Thank you all so much. I needed these replies. I guess I married a mad man...twice...what does that say about me? Jeezzzz....


That you loved well, but not wisely?


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

For sure Matt Matt...I suppose I eventually wised-up...Yey! Forgive me but having a 2 y.o. DS baby has truly changed my perspective on life. I re-connected with my inner child and discovered I have a great sense of humor, even about Mr. Wacko. I depended on this sense of humor to get out of that nightmare intact. Maybe my son saved my life in his own fabulous way...Gave me the binoculars I needed to see that mad-guy for who and what he really is AKA enough is enough.


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## Butterfly1014 (Jul 24, 2014)

Calibre- My very best friend told me trying to think of what else my STBXH was capable after I found out about the 2nd affair and I had filed for divorce would be more damaging to me, not him. I agree with her. It's only been a couple months since he has been gone, he hasn't really seen our son, affair fog right! Whatever it is, it is making me see how much of a selfish guy he was all along. 
Thatbpguy is right "once a cheater, always a cheater." My STBXH went back to the ex he was with before me he repeatedly cheated on her. She is also married. Gotta love life. 
Soon I hope that this soap opera will be over! Never question yourself for being a good person, there is far too few of us left!


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Calibre1212 said:


> How does one reconcile with one's-self for allowing this? Since he was capable of pulling it off for 6 years (that I know of), what else is he capable of?


Our preacher once shocked me with his explanation we all could have been the guards of the Nazi death camps.

We all have crucified Jesus because of our continued sinning.

I am afraid we are all capable of anything bad you can imagine under certain conditions.

Besides men being the standard cheater like your husband, also very saintlike housewives have been seen cheating. To some of their own words: They themselves would never have believed to have been capable of doing something like having an affair.

I do therefore not believe in the 'them cheaters' and 'us righteous' concept. We are organic robots, with a operating system that can contain many programs at once, conflicting, hidden, good, bad, you name it.

God help us.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

See_Listen_Love said:


> Our preacher once shocked me with his explanation we all could have been the guards of the Nazi death camps.
> 
> We all have crucified Jesus because of our continued sinning.
> 
> ...


I've said that often.

This is going to make a bunch of people think about who I am. Yes, I do agree that we all are capable of sinning, or murder, rape, and many other heinous crimes and sins. I think some have a higher and in some cases a much higher propensity to do certain things. Notice, I didn't even use the word cheat in that last sentence. 

That's because I think we each have something that is highest on our individual list of things that we might do. I think each of us has to watch closely to avoid that one thing. The rest is easier to avoid. 

Some find it tolerable to accept infidelity as an outlet. I don't. It hurts me much much more than many other men. So, I can't be with someone I believe would easily cheat. I can be with someone who might easily do other things. I don't have a list and won't provide one. You all know what I mean.


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## LostAndBreathless (Jul 14, 2014)

Take a deep breath and say to yourself "This is not my fault." It's not your fault, you did nothing wrong. I know it's hard to turn off the what ifs but you will drive yourself crazy with them. Some people are just that good at hiding their affairs, and that charming when you think something is wrong. My husband had perfectly good explanations for every alarm bell that went off in my head. They made so much that sense that I never connected them.


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## Welsh15 (Feb 24, 2014)

Calibre1212 said:


> The most gut-wrenching moment of DD for me was when my mind kept showing me the picture of my husband coming home at nights for those 6+ years and lying beside me in the bed, knowing fully well he had been in contact with the AP prior to coming home. The most fearful feelings engulfed me because I realized I did not know who he was at all and after 14 years. I thought I knew, but I was wrong. It made me realize how vulnerable I had been. The closest person in the world to me, was not my friend and if he wasn't that to me, what was he? I imagined that if there had been no DD and we continued for another 14 years, when I would eventually pass away, she would probably show up at my funeral to console him...a stranger acting like a past co-worker of mine or his or something...A stranger to my children, my siblings, my parents...On and on...The thought blew me away...They would have gotten away with it seamlessly...
> 
> This is what I struggled with during the whole (false) reconciliation which has now lead to divorce (again). I am stuck in the sense that I do not know what to think of myself for having been so trusting and "at risk" at the same time. His ability to lie, hide etc...for secrets, a secret life...is flabbergasting, never mind his ability to keep me hooked via making me believe he is a Christian. He talked like a Christian, acted like a Christian but in the background he evidenced a legion, an alternate lifestyle. Betrayal on numerous levels. I had not been able to reconcile with his propensity to betray. All the other reconciliations required within a reconciliation became moot.
> 
> How does one reconcile with one's-self for allowing this? Since he was capable of pulling it off for 6 years (that I know of), what else is he capable of?


Don't let his actions define you. I imagine that you are a good trusting soul. You want to believe the best about people. He is a manipulative POS obviously. Don't waste another moment thinking of his lies and betrayal Please go to IC and learn to forgive yourself and not blame yourself for this. Time to turn this life of yours around! Best of Luck


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

I did struggle a lot with what I may have done wrong etc. until I saw that he was the one who pulled the rug out from under our family unit and did so for so many years. The children and I lived in chaos and instability for those years. 

He claims to be reformed now, but unfortunately, the damage was already done. Forgive him I did but it does not obligate me to stay in the aftermath of years of an ongoing earthquake. Whether he really changed or not has nothing to do with his propensity to deceive. 

The word "betrayer" I am now finding, seems to be a prettier word for back-stabbing, lying, thieving wh**e. I am no angel but I do have standards. I ICd myself and got some help from TAM. Did my own research and experiments, with the results, I was able to make "the" final decision to divorce. 

So no see-listen-love, I won't be able to walk around anymore with him on my back, with him stabbing me in my side, with him placing a crown of thorns on my head, with him giving me vinegar to drink and with him hoisting me on a cross driving nails in my hands and feet. Been there done that for too long. No SLL, I do not have the propensity to betray nor to make a habit of it.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

I don't think anyone should ever struggle with what they did wrong, it's just a negative self-fulfilling prophecy to me. 

To have and to hold, 
For better or worse, 
In sickness and in health, 
Till death do us part, 

Everyone got it? 

Everyone said it and knew what it meant. 

Not everyone took it seriously or was capable. 

The one person in this whole world that agreed to have your back and you would have theirs. 

If the marriage doesn't work out, communication must take place. 

The truth hurts but betrayal insults, shames, embarrasses, undermines, controls...... It does the very opposite of having your back. 

At the time I said my vows, I felt I had made the right decision. How could I have made another if facts were hidden from me or were going to be hid from me? Not ever the BS's fault. Not even a poor choice unless you know the facts before you marry. 

Marriage is a huge leap of faith that doesn't always work out. 

I truly believe, people would be much happier and move on more quickly if they didn't beat themselves up. 

Missing someone, although painful, eases over time. We get older and realize we only have one life. We better make the best of it. 

I also believe on a spiritual level, the BS has it much easier. I will take no regrets to my grave that were based on my actions in my marriage. I have a clean conscience. 

Keep your dignity, take the high road, whatever you want to call it in order to move on. There is much to be grateful for. 

There are so many that can't leave because of abuse, children, no family support, money. If you are lucky enough to get away from a terrible spouse who has made a mess of things with no remorse, be happy and guilt free.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Calibre1212 said:


> Since he was capable of pulling it off for 6 years (that I know of), what else is he capable of?


These words really struck home with me. As my marriage broke down and we were negotiating the terms of divorce, people would ask me what sort of custody arrangements there should be, did I think my ex was a danger to the kids, etc.

And I discovered I could not answer these types of questions. Prior to d-day I would have said 'absolutely not' to anything that implied my ex was less than an honest, caring, considerate person and parent. After d-day, the truth became that I had absolutely NO IDEA what horrible actions my ex was capable of, not just in a relationship, but in ANY capacity.


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> These words really struck home with me. As my marriage broke down and we were negotiating the terms of divorce, people would ask me what sort of custody arrangements there should be, did I think my ex was a danger to the kids, etc.
> 
> And I discovered I could not answer these types of questions. Prior to d-day I would have said 'absolutely not' to anything that implied my ex was less than an honest, caring, considerate person and parent. After d-day, the truth became that I had absolutely NO IDEA what horrible actions my ex was capable of, not just in a relationship, but in ANY capacity.


Well said. :iagree:


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

Rugs said:


> I don't think anyone should ever struggle with what they did wrong, it's just a negative self-fulfilling prophecy to me.
> 
> To have and to hold,
> For better or worse,
> ...


I am going to memorize this.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

No disrespect, but I find it a bit of a cop out to say thst we are all capable of any type of sin (rape, murder, adultry...) under the right circumstances. There are numerous stories of nazi guards and ss militia doing wonderful acts of humanity to our wounded soldiers. 

To me, it's where the rubber meets the road. What people actually do that tells me the true condition of their heart.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> No disrespect, but I find it a bit of a cop out to say thst we are all capable of any type of sin (rape, murder, adultry...) under the right circumstances. There are numerous stories of nazi guards and ss militia doing wonderful acts of humanity to our wounded soldiers.


Which shows that under certain circumstances everybody (including these inhuman species you mention) can do acts of humanity. 

It is just the inverse case.

It shows the black and white thinking is flawed.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

So sorry Calibre, when we love and trust we make ourselves vulnerable.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> No disrespect, but I find it a bit of a cop out to say thst we are all capable of any type of sin (rape, murder, adultry...) under the right circumstances. There are numerous stories of nazi guards and ss militia doing wonderful acts of humanity to our wounded soldiers.
> 
> To me, it's where the rubber meets the road. What people actually do that tells me the true condition of their heart.


Not insulted. Just wondering what you mean by cop out. I never did understand that term. 

Maybe I'm reading too many posts by unfaithful spouses? :scratchhead:


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

See_Listen_Love said:


> Which shows that under certain circumstances everybody (including these inhuman species you mention) can do acts of humanity.
> 
> It is just the inverse case.
> 
> It shows the black and white thinking is flawed.


This is not the inverse case.

The inverse case would be the betrayed person being the one to cheat first. But he/she didn't. It's a non-existent scenario.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> Not insulted. Just wondering what you mean by cop out. I never did understand that term.
> 
> Maybe I'm reading too many posts by unfaithful spouses? :scratchhead:


A cop out is just an excuse for not doing the right thing.

Saying we are all "capable" of cheating is an inclusive statement, basically something cheaters say to try and bring you and everyone else down to their level. Example: My XW at one point said she thought I would be the one more likely to cheat. 

Most cheaters will say and do anything to remove themselves of any culpability or accountability. It's much easier to look at one's self in the mirror when the world is shades of grey and heck everyone is capable of cheating. Many think everyone IS cheating or will be soon. When you're wearing a red coat, you tend to notice everyone else who is, too, or think it may fit them well.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

staystrong said:


> A cop out is just an excuse for not doing the right thing.
> 
> Saying we are all "capable" of cheating is an inclusive statement, basically something cheaters say to try and bring you and everyone else down to their level. Example: My XW at one point said she thought I would be the one more likely to cheat.
> 
> Most cheaters will say and do anything to remove themselves of any culpability or accountability. It's much easier to look at one's self in the mirror when the world is shades of grey and heck everyone is capable of cheating. Many think everyone IS cheating or will be soon. When you're wearing a red coat, you tend to notice everyone else who is, too, or think it may fit them well.


Okay. Thank you. I thought so. That was what the sentence starting with the word maybe was about.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> Not insulted. Just wondering what you mean by cop out. I never did understand that term.
> 
> Maybe I'm reading too many posts by unfaithful spouses? :scratchhead:


What I mean is that if anyone is pushed hard enough they may do such things. But some still won't. It's an easy thing to say, but isn't true. It may be, but it's just an excuse. 

I mean, I get it that probably 5% or so of betrayers are actually justified and have no problem with that they do. But not the other 95%. They all have options and make a choice.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

okay thanks.


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

I don't think even that 5% is justified in cheating because there is an out...Divorce; unless it is expected, socially acceptable behavior where they are living. It is horrible set of actions to start another relationship and grow it or establish it while already being in one (married). They say attraction occurs within 6 seconds of two people seeing each other for the first time. That math doesn't do much good for a cheater because they knew 6 seconds into it, what they were going to do. The nuances of calibrating the mutuality and limitations is what seems to take up much of the time in between from the initial attraction to the consummation.


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## loyallad (Aug 1, 2014)

Calibre1212 said:


> I don't think even that 5% is justified in cheating because there is an out...Divorce; unless it is expected, socially acceptable behavior where they are living. It is horrible set of actions to start another relationship and grow it or establish it while already being in one (married). They say attraction occurs within 6 seconds of two people seeing each other for the first time. That math doesn't do much good for a cheater because they knew 6 seconds into it, what they were going to do. The nuances of calibrating the mutuality and limitations is what seems to take up much of the time in between from the initial attraction to the consummation.


I don't agree with the 5 percent being justified. More likely empathy for their situation more than anything. As for attraction to another occurring within 6 seconds of seeing someone perhaps that's the case some of the time but I don't think that's a hard and fast rule either. 

As for anyone has the likelihood to cheat I am not so sure of that either. There are some with self respect and inner strength that just won't cheat on their spouse. I just can't bring myself to do that. I have to be true to myself. My word is my bond. Maybe that's old fashion and unrealistic in today's time. That's just who I am and the way I was raised and learned to believe.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> okay thanks.


That's it? 

I don't even get a "like"?


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Oh I don't know. 

Some people are severely abused and cannot find anywhere to turn. It does happen. And a a few other uber extreme examples.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> That's it?
> 
> I don't even get a "like"?


Used to be a term in social for guys like you asking for it.  I'm afraid to post it.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Oh, and after looking up the definition of propensity, I'm inclined to agree with those who say it's less common. Although, I still have doubts that the actual number doesn't follow the number of divorces closely. I think there are many incidences of infidelity which are never discovered or swept under the rug. Later, if they do divorce, I bet many of those are just labeled as irreconcilable differences.

ETA: I was thinking more of the number that look at a potential partner and just think, hmm s/he is hot and I would if I/s/he was single. Isn't that the start of it anyway? Some, like I used to do, just take that energy home and use it where it's appropriate.


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

Well, do they have a conscience for you, themselves, the AP, no one? Lordy, I married a plastic person...A droid? Where is Harrison Ford when you need him?


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