# Married to a Narcissist



## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

I am reading a fantastic book about narcissism and I am starting to put some pieces of the puzzle together about my life with my ex and wanted to share. My ex would always be seeking a woman in some way. We would go to a restaurant and he'd flirt with the waitress and could not take her eyes off her. We'd go to an airport terminal and he'd be checking out every woman in the area and then would lock on to one or two and keep checking them out. He did not hide his behavior and his interest was obvious. One time just to see if he even heard me while he was doing this I started saying junk to say if it would catch his attention and it did not. And it wasn't just this, he was into porn, I caught him IMing women, he took women to lunch, would go to fellow coworker's desks and chat them up and tell jokes to get their attention. At home with me though I seemed like nothing more than a housekeeper, nanny , and sex slave. He was completely detached emotionally. He showed no love, no remorse, no empathy, no compassion. I felt like I was living with a brick wall. 

Here's a is a quote from "Becoming the Narcissist's Nightmare" by Shahida Arabi: "They will flirt behind your back and in front of your face. They will disappear and subject you to silent treatment, both randomly and at opportune times where they seek to hold you responsible for their inconsistent, shady behavior. They will engage in a technique known as triangulation, where they use the presence of another person to make you jealous and make themselves seem more desirable. These people can be anyone from a waitress to a waiter at a restaurant to a close friend, even people from his family or yours. That is how sick the narcissist is, they have no boundaries. Whoever it is, they will make sure that they've charmed them and they will make sure you see it or hear about it. They love to play games and make you feel like you're in competition for their attention and affection."


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

I'm glad he's your ex. 
What a total tool.


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## VeryHurt (Mar 11, 2011)

Hi AVR ~
Your post gave me the chills. 
I was divorced 3 months ago after being married to a narcissist for 33+ years.
He will NEVER change.
Let me share with you the advice from my Psychiatrist: Trying to change him is like hitting your head against the proverbial wall. :banghead::banghead:


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

It helps to do some learning into anothers poor behaviour, yes it can be cathartic and help to not ever partner up with a similar type. The real question is though, have you put as much time and energy into discovering why you allowed yourself to be subjected to his treatment of you for so long? 

Even if a partner is as crazy as hell, every relationship takes two people to remain entangled in the mess. Have you taken responsibility for your own action/lack of action, you stayed for years and let him treat you this way.


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

Narcissists objectify everyone - even their own children. They do not view the world like we do, but see people as though they are playing a part in their play about their lives. They tell you which role you will play - they try and tell us who we are. By the time the relationship ends we often have forgotten who we and have to re-invent a sense of self. They do not love or capable of love as we experience love. Love to an N is about what they are gaining from being with someone - never what they are giving. They think they feel love when someone provides them with money or admiration, or just makes them feel big. 


Try reading 'the empathy trap'. It answered so many questions for me.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

VeryHurt said:


> Hi AVR ~
> Your post gave me the chills.
> I was divorced 3 months ago after being married to a narcissist for 33+ years.
> He will NEVER change.
> Let me share with you the advice from my Psychiatrist: Trying to change him is like hitting your head against the proverbial wall. :banghead::banghead:


Yes, absolutely!!!


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

MrsHolland said:


> It helps to do some learning into anothers poor behaviour, yes it can be cathartic and help to not ever partner up with a similar type. The real question is though, have you put as much time and energy into discovering why you allowed yourself to be subjected to his treatment of you for so long?
> 
> Even if a partner is as crazy as hell, every relationship takes two people to remain entangled in the mess. Have you taken responsibility for your own action/lack of action, you stayed for years and let him treat you this way.


Oh yes! and thank goodness for the counseling I have had. My last counselor told me my ex was narcissistic but I could not see it until I got away from him.


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## prunus (Oct 29, 2016)

AVR1962 said:


> I am reading a fantastic book about narcissism and I am starting to put some pieces of the puzzle together about my life with my ex and wanted to share. My ex would always be seeking a woman in some way. We would go to a restaurant and he'd flirt with the waitress and could not take her eyes off her. We'd go to an airport terminal and he'd be checking out every woman in the area and then would lock on to one or two and keep checking them out. He did not hide his behavior and his interest was obvious. One time just to see if he even heard me while he was doing this I started saying junk to say if it would catch his attention and it did not. And it wasn't just this, he was into porn, I caught him IMing women, he took women to lunch, would go to fellow coworker's desks and chat them up and tell jokes to get their attention. At home with me though I seemed like nothing more than a housekeeper, nanny , and sex slave. He was completely detached emotionally. He showed no love, no remorse, no empathy, no compassion. I felt like I was living with a brick wall.
> 
> Here's a is a quote from "Becoming the Narcissist's Nightmare" by Shahida Arabi: "They will flirt behind your back and in front of your face. They will disappear and subject you to silent treatment, both randomly and at opportune times where they seek to hold you responsible for their inconsistent, shady behavior. They will engage in a technique known as triangulation, where they use the presence of another person to make you jealous and make themselves seem more desirable. These people can be anyone from a waitress to a waiter at a restaurant to a close friend, even people from his family or yours. That is how sick the narcissist is, they have no boundaries. Whoever it is, they will make sure that they've charmed them and they will make sure you see it or hear about it. They love to play games and make you feel like you're in competition for their attention and affection."


Sounds like my STBXH.


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## prunus (Oct 29, 2016)

MrsHolland said:


> It helps to do some learning into anothers poor behaviour, yes it can be cathartic and help to not ever partner up with a similar type. The real question is though, have you put as much time and energy into discovering why you allowed yourself to be subjected to his treatment of you for so long?
> 
> Even if a partner is as crazy as hell, every relationship takes two people to remain entangled in the mess. Have you taken responsibility for your own action/lack of action, you stayed for years and let him treat you this way.


I'm wondering about this very thing.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

peacem said:


> Narcissists objectify everyone - even their own children. They do not view the world like we do, but see people as though they are playing a part in their play about their lives. They tell you which role you will play - they try and tell us who we are. By the time the relationship ends we often have forgotten who we and have to re-invent a sense of self. They do not love or capable of love as we experience love. Love to an N is about what they are gaining from being with someone - never what they are giving. They think they feel love when someone provides them with money or admiration, or just makes them feel big.
> 
> 
> Try reading 'the empathy trap'. It answered so many questions for me.


My ex was empty inside and needed admiration, mostly thru telling his jokes or trying to be the smartest person at the table. His jokes were corny and I tired of them quickly....he was a copy of his father who told the same type of jokes. When I stopped laughing at his jokes he had to start searching for someone who would fill his empty self up by admiring his sense of humor.


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

AVR1962 said:


> My ex was empty inside and needed admiration, mostly thru telling his jokes or trying to be the smartest person at the table. His jokes were corny and I tired of them quickly....he was a copy of his father who told the same type of jokes. When I stopped laughing at his jokes he had to start searching for someone who would fill his empty self up by admiring his sense of humor.


Do you have children together?

There is something profoundly empty about cluster b's. They are like black holes - never satisfied with anything they have or given. I would never attempt to justify a narcs abuse but remember that they will (without a doubt) come from a dysfunctional family. If his father is a narc then he will have been given either an over indulged childhood where he was over idealised (which is actually very disturbing for a child when they know they are in fact imperfect like everyone else), or nothing was ever good enough (and therefore *shame*). Layers and layers of defenses, terrified people will recognised the pathetic, cowardly individuals they actually are. They are to be pitied. 

I remember someone saying to me about their narc ex - after 7 years of marriage she realised that she didn't even know who he was. He had so many faces, masks and personas - depending on what he needed at the time.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

AVR1962 said:


> Oh yes! and thank goodness for the counseling I have had. My last counselor told me my ex was narcissistic but I could not see it until I got away from him.


OK so now you have a label and that is great. What I am asking you though is why did you allow such poor treatment to go on for so long? You will never fix your ex but you have a (hopefully) long and prosperous life ahead of you. Are you able to take responsibility for where you ended up in life, do you understand that you have a share of the blame?

Not having a go but this topic is close to me (for very different reasons). The day I stopped trying to find out why my ex is like he is and really looked at and took responsibility for my own failing was the day my world opened up, it was the turning point. We are all to blame for where we end up, the road to inner freedom and peace is owning your own part of the blame.

So your ex is a narcissist, now you know. Do you fully understand what your issues are bc that is the healthiest way to move on. Reading your posts is very sad, you stayed with a pig of a man, why?


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## Justsayin4897 (Jan 22, 2016)

Omg that is my life at this very moment...



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

peacem said:


> Do you have children together?
> 
> There is something profoundly empty about cluster b's. They are like black holes - never satisfied with anything they have or given. I would never attempt to justify a narcs abuse but remember that they will (without a doubt) come from a dysfunctional family. If his father is a narc then he will have been given either an over indulged childhood where he was over idealised (which is actually very disturbing for a child when they know they are in fact imperfect like everyone else), or nothing was ever good enough (and therefore *shame*). Layers and layers of defenses, terrified people will recognised the pathetic, cowardly individuals they actually are. They are to be pitied.
> 
> I remember someone saying to me about their narc ex - after 7 years of marriage she realised that she didn't even know who he was. He had so many faces, masks and personas - depending on what he needed at the time.


Yes, we had one child together and I raised his two sons from his first marriage. I had been told that his wife left him with their 2 & 4 year old boys. He was good at playing the victim and I fell for his ploy. My ex had left, had an affair, and he claimed his ex had done the same. We spent time bonding over our hurts from our spouses having an affair and up and leaving and showing no interest in the children. Later as I was beginning to doubt some of what I was told, I realized that his ex didn't just leave. He had demanded that she be home one night at a specific time. When she did not come home by that time he locked the doors to their house and would not let her in. He then went to an attorney and filed for divorce and custody of the children. She had no means to fight him but had asked him privately if she were able to get on her feet financially would he let their sons live with her and he agreed. 

She moved to another state to live with her mother to get on her feet and he asked his sister to take the boys. She lived about 20-30 minutes up the road from him. Yes, he worked but there was no reason why a single man could not take care of his sons and have them in his home every night. What did he do then at night? Hit the bars, drinking. The boys would have fared far better had they gone with their mom. As it was the boys were abandoned twice, by mom and by dad. He did not care. 

This is partly why I stayed with him as long as I did. We had one child together and I always feared he would try to gain custody so I waited until she was ready to go to college and I offered to move with her.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

MrsHolland said:


> OK so now you have a label and that is great. What I am asking you though is why did you allow such poor treatment to go on for so long? You will never fix your ex but you have a (hopefully) long and prosperous life ahead of you. Are you able to take responsibility for where you ended up in life, do you understand that you have a share of the blame?
> 
> Not having a go but this topic is close to me (for very different reasons). The day I stopped trying to find out why my ex is like he is and really looked at and took responsibility for my own failing was the day my world opened up, it was the turning point. We are all to blame for where we end up, the road to inner freedom and peace is owning your own part of the blame.
> 
> So your ex is a narcissist, now you know. Do you fully understand what your issues are bc that is the healthiest way to move on. Reading your posts is very sad, you stayed with a pig of a man, why?


Yes, I was born to teenage parents. My mom was only 16 when I was born and she quickly became pg with a second child. My Gma took me under her care (I didn't live with them) and helped my parents. My bond with my Gma was very strong. I also spent quite a bit of time with my dad, parents still married to this day. That bond was also very strong. My mom did not like the bond I had with my Gma or my dad. She wanted the stronger bond with her and she would belittle me, blame me, she would say hateful things about my dad and my Gma to get me to love her more than them. My little sister was kind of sickly and needed more of my mom attention. Her personality complimented my moms and I was a bit more independent from my mom. I did not like the hateful things she said to me about my dad and my Gma so then was this rift between me and my mother from very young. I was the responsible one and my mom saw to it that I catered to my sister and took over her chores and duties "because my sister was not as strong or she was sick." 

My mom was the type that if she were mad at me or my dad or her mom or whoever she would absolutely not talk to them. You might not know what you did to make her mad but she was going to deliberately ignore you. She never said she was sorry, she never would communicate, she did not tell you she loved you. With time she became an alcoholic. I was told repeatedly by my mom that I needed to be more accepting....meaning I was not accepting the way she treated others and I was not accepting her.

I fell in love with my high school sweetheart, we married. She told my Gma she would disown me if I married this man. She stayed true to her word until our first child was born. She could not say one nice thing to my husband and usually ignored him completely when we would visit. My husband ended up having an affair and leaving which ripped my world apart. 

Not only did I feel unlovable because the man I loved and adored had an affair and left but I also felt my family had been ripped out from under me. This was the man I had planned to grow old with and share grand children with. 

When I met my second husband I felt I would never love anyone as much as I loved my first husband. I also wanted someone who I thought was "safe" and was not the type to cheat and this man claimed he had never cheated on his wife. I could see he needed help with his sons and for me it was a way of having a family once again. I also wanted to prove to my ex that I was lovable. Little did I make the connection at the time that I was marrying my mother. I was compassionate and emphatic, I supported his lies which at the time I was not aware were lies, and became the caretaker (and became the codependent) to him and his children. For him I think it was more a marriage of convenience.

Empathy and compassion are good qualities to have but I was willing to let my needs go unmet to try to make him happy. Like my mom, there was no way to make this man happy.

I spent 5 years in counseling understanding the dynamics in my family and the role I played as a scapegoat. I also realized that I was not just the family scapegoat but friendships and work colleagues also were willing to take advantage of my ever so willingness to please. Relationships did not need to be on mutual ground. My counselor walked me thru how to take my life back and stop seeking the need to please others and bending over backwards for those who were taking advantage of my generosity. At first it was not comfortable as I felt I would be alone so I logically followed her steps. I only started engaging in mutual relationships and stopped wanting to please to have friends. It has made a huge difference in my life.

I also understand now how the N, BPD and the PA seek people with compassion. I no longer just accept what people say as truth. I no longer chase any relationship. 

I am in my mid 50's now and in many way I feel much of life has passed me by but I can say I have learned a great deal. I am now doing what I want to with my life and do not feel I need anyone to complete me.


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## VeryHurt (Mar 11, 2011)

peacem said:


> Do you have children together?
> 
> There is something profoundly empty about cluster b's. They are like black holes - never satisfied with anything they have or given. I would never attempt to justify a narcs abuse but remember that they will (without a doubt) come from a dysfunctional family. If his father is a narc then he will have been given either an over indulged childhood where he was over idealised (which is actually very disturbing for a child when they know they are in fact imperfect like everyone else), or nothing was ever good enough (and therefore *shame*). Layers and layers of defenses, terrified people will recognised the pathetic, cowardly individuals they actually are. They are to be pitied.
> 
> I remember someone saying to me about their narc ex - after 7 years of marriage she realised that she didn't even know who he was. He had so many faces, masks and personas - depending on what he needed at the time.


Hi Pea ~
You're post went right to my gut. My ex had a mother who was as cold as ice and nearly ignored him for his older brother. His father wasn't much better. All three kids are a mess ..............and divorced. I have read so much on this subject over the past 5+ years, I bought stock in Visine !!!
VH


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

That's one hell of a life story AVR. I wish you well moving forward


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

This thread will help so many people...here's to living your life narcissist-free! You've come a long way, it seems. It is very hard to break free from a narcissistic relationship, I speak from experience. Happy for you that you're living your life true to yourself!  ((hug))


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## Síocháin (Mar 11, 2016)

I have been separated for 145 days. Only counting because 365 will not get here soon enough. I no longer read about what is wrong with him. I'm trying to figure out what is wrong with ME that I put up with passive aggressive/narcissistic behavior for 20 plus years. I so don't want to do this again. Not even thinking about dating and not sure if/when I ever will.


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## lostmyreligion (Oct 18, 2013)

I grew up within a "Walton's Mountain" family in a place that was about as close to Shangri-la as you could get. I married a woman whose mother is a text book narcissist and father is an alcoholic enabler. 

The disparity in upbringing nearly tore us apart. I had no idea that people as loathsome as that actually existed and struggled greatly with the reality of it. It conflicted with everything in my limited, cloistered experience.

My wife, for her part, had built up huge, defensive, psychological fortifications in response to her upbringing. She had been raised an only child in an upper middle class home by people who were expert at hiding the non-stop emotional and at times, physical abuse behind a white picket fence facade. Nobody believed her and she had no where to turn. She simply thought that it was normal and that she deserved it because there was something wrong with her. 

It wasn't until college that she got any validation. Her best friend at that time went over for a first visit to her folk's place. She remarked after that something wasn't right. Not when people who presented themselves as proud, loving, almost doting parents, had photos of themselves alone and as a couple all over their huge house, yet not a single photo of their only beautiful child was to be seen. Anywhere.

Long story short, my wife found a website called 'Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers' 7 years ago. Very much like this one only for victims of narcissists. She learned that there is no changing or fixing a narcissist. All you can do is remove yourself from their influence and manipulations. She went completely no contact with her mother 7 years ago and very limited contact with her father.

That was 15 years into our (up to that point) confusingly turbulent marriage. Everything since has gotten steadily better both in her life and now 23 years into our marriage. 

Narcissists will destroy you if you let them. And they seem to thrive on the collateral damage.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Síocháin said:


> I have been separated for 145 days. Only counting because 365 will not get here soon enough. I no longer read about what is wrong with him. I'm trying to figure out what is wrong with ME that I put up with passive aggressive/narcissistic behavior for 20 plus years. I so don't want to do this again. Not even thinking about dating and not sure if/when I ever will.


Siochain, I am happy that you got out of your situation. I was one of the many who replied to your posts. It took 8 months from the beginning to the end before my divorce became final. My (now) ex knit-picked the documents to death wanting every word just so, basically burning up the $ I put down as a retainer for the attorney. I finally got sick of the knit-picking, attorney kept telling me that the wording was correct and I signed the papers and told him if he wanted to fight the wording he would need to hire his own attorney. He did sign the paperwork and I ended up owing an extra $500 because of his analism...if there is such a word! I asked him if he would split that cost with me and he told me that he didn't think he should have to pay for my legal fees. My legal fees? Who was running up those fees because he kept wanted the paperwork to be rewritten. He did end up pay me half of the cost.

These men have to have control and we have been nothing. My 27 years with my husband I can tell you I felt unloved. I felt like I was to please him and yet he had no desire to meet me half way. My needs were nothing to him. 

There is no doubt in my mind that he is trying to be Mr Charming with the ladies he encounters now, acting all interested in them to try to get them into the sack. I have no doubt he is heavy into his porn habits (as he said to me he felt was just typical men behavior). His family is no doubt supporting him and thinking I was the problem which will just continue to inflate his ego. They have no idea who he is and what I endured with that man. They only know they man he presents himself to be to them. No know someone much different than they see on the surface.....I know the man behind the mask.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

lostmyreligion said:


> I grew up within a "Walton's Mountain" family in a place that was about as close to Shangri-la as you could get. I married a woman whose mother is a text book narcissist and father is an alcoholic enabler.
> 
> The disparity in upbringing nearly tore us apart. I had no idea that people as loathsome as that actually existed and struggled greatly with the reality of it. It conflicted with everything in my limited, cloistered experience.
> 
> ...


I am also part of the group mentioned and have was active in the group for some time. I too had to separate myself from my family and understand what had happened to me. I was able to reach a point of forgiveness and I was able to voice, in a good way, that I did not need my parents input or approval in my life. I did this at the time of the divorce as I felt they would not approve. I could have used the support but I felt it would not be there so I left them out. It was very freeing and actually good to go thru all that without their input. Since, I have had a couple notes from my mom wishing me well but we have not seen or talked in over 5 years.

It takes a great deal of courage for a child of a N parent to stand on their feet and learn to value themselves. I congratulate your wife and I hope all works out for the two of you as a couple.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

When we are younger, and just starting out, it's difficult to see how our FOO issues impact our choice of a spouse. In your case, AVR, you felt by chasing your second husband (he wouldn't have ever chased you) and doing everything for him that he would give you the love you didn't get from your mom. His aloofness on some level reminded you of hers and that was your opportunity to correct that. But, of course, it didn't work. 

I was one who thought you would never get out. Thankfully, you did and now you are on the path to a healthier, happier life.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Openminded said:


> When we are younger, and just starting out, it's difficult to see how our FOO issues impact our choice of a spouse. In your case, AVR, you felt by chasing your second husband (he wouldn't have ever chased you) and doing everything for him that he would give you the love you didn't get from your mom. His aloofness on some level reminded you of hers and that was your opportunity to correct that. But, of course, it didn't work.
> 
> I was one who thought you would never get out. Thankfully, you did and now you are on the path to a healthier, happier life.


Yes, I learned about this in therapy and read about it in one of the many books I read in the process. Thank you for being with me and being such a support all these years.

For Thanksgiving this year I had my children and grand children with me at my home. We cooked a traditional meal. We laughed and talked and had such a great time. It was what I had wanted for years. My ex did not care to be around the kids and would pretty much just sit and stay self absorbed in his world when they would visit. We lived overseas for 16 years and I did not get the chance to visit as much as I would have liked. I cannot recall the last Thanksgiving I spent with my kids and the last traditional meal were shared together so yes, I am finally living my life the way I want it.

I invited an old friend that used to work with my ex before he and I married, an older gentleman and certainly not a man of interest as far as a partner. Family disappeared for about 5 minutes and he took the opportunity to tell me that he knew I had suffered for years in a marriage that was awful and he was happy that I made it out. He told me that he felt my ex had married me for convenience.

One of my good friends is going thru something very similar and now that I am out I can see myself in her. She keeps excusing her husband's behavior and feeling there is some way she can deal with it all. She tries, just to be hurt all over again. She is in denial just as I was. 

So happy I made it thru to the other side.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

It can be very difficult to see the full extent of the dysfunction when you're in the middle of it. BTDT. Once you're through it all, then, yes, you shake your head to think you actually lived all that. I'm still in disbelief at the life I led during the 45 years I was married. 

I agree with your friend who said your ex-husband married you for convenience. He's incapable of love.


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