# Wife wants to be a free bird again



## Chulo (6 mo ago)

Me (36) and my wife (36)are married for almost 8 years, last year my wife lost her mother and I was very supportive. I try to show her as much love as possible and giving her free space so she can deal with her emotions. Just to mention that in the time of her mother being treated for cancer and afterwards I was alone in my house for almost 8 months, while she was at her origin country. 
After a while she got accepted into a new job and I was tremendously happy for her, knowing that this will help her to move forward with her life and feel good again.

My problem began when recently she started to hang out more then usual with co-workers and social events until late at night.
In my position I felt deeply guilty and lonely, but I didn't want to raise those issues because I felt that the time wasn't right.
In the past few months I have work tremendously hard on our relationship with different gestures, like taking care of the household, flower, romantic dinners and intimate activities.in fairness I always did this, but I put another 100% to make her feel better and more comfortable. 
I most admit that it came from my loneliness and to overcome my emotions that were depressed.

It wasn't always a happy marriage, we have ups and downs but always there was love. Recently she started to be more secretily and more distant than ever before. My jealously started to raise and I try to confront her about my current situation.
She ignored me and told me that that she was having a really bad time (personal issues she said), and as a supportive person that I'm I ask if I can help in any way, I was declined and told to leave her to her emotions.
After a while of me trying to get more information about her she finally got to say that she is unhappy with our relationship, that she needs time to understand what is going on with her, and that I should let her go more out and be a free bird as she always was (and she was before we got together, I'm her first real love and committed relationship).

I broke down when she said that and started to feel way worst with myself because I'm also having a really bad time trying to get a better job and it's not working out so far.

Last Friday I got drunk (11 year that didn't happen- not an alcoholic, just my stomach doesn't like alcohol), and she arrive completely drunk at 3am. I felt something was off and decided to do something that I never done and that was seeing her phone.
I found messages with one of her co-workers saying that he had a really good time and that her skin (hands) was ****ing soft and amazing (she really has amazing skin).
I straight away confront her with that and she was elusive and show barely any emotion. She said that nothing happened (tho day after she confess being at his house late at night with a friend).
My self esteem right now is crushed completely, and I try to get more information about what is going on with her but I get even more depressed because she get mad and angry and blame me for pressing her and converting this into more distance between us.
I started to ask difficult questions like if she needs some time off or if she want to have an open relationship, or just simply if she want to divorce. To all she said no.

But the problem is that I know and she doesn't denied that she is flirting with her co-worker, and she said that she needs time to understand her feelings and to see if she wants to be with me.

To be honest I'm completely broken right now, my emotions are out of control (and I see a psychologist about my inner demons for the past 2 months) my mind is racing and I'm losing all sences. My question is should I give the love of my life the space that she needs, with totally freedom to figure out if she wants to be with me (even if it kills me with jealous and mind games) , or give up because I'm not good at giving up and I don't really know what to do.

Sorry for my English, not my native language.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

You are giving her all the power in your relationship and she’s using your weakness to cheat on you.
Look up the “180” and put it into use. And maybe have a chat with a lawyer about how a divorce will affect you.
But please stop being a doormat.


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## colingrant (Nov 6, 2017)

Matias said:


> Me (36) and my wife (36)are married for almost 8 years, last year my wife lost her mother and I was very supportive. I try to show her as much love as possible and giving her free space so she can deal with her emotions. Just to mention that in the time of her mother being treated for cancer and afterwards I was alone in my house for almost 8 months, while she was at her origin country.
> After a while she got accepted into a new job and I was tremendously happy for her, knowing that this will help her to move forward with her life and feel good again.
> 
> My problem began when recently she started to hang out more then usual with co-workers and social events until late at night.
> ...


Grant her and go live your life.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

In a healthy marriage when one spouse is struggling they turn to the other for support. She is running away from you & turning to others, then blaming you. 

If she doesn't stop it & start working on the marriage, it's time to end things.


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## Tested_by_stress (Apr 1, 2021)

When she arrives home from her next "night out", greet her at the door with divorce papers and directions to a hotel.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

If a bird is smacking against its cage it's time to set it free.

Also, she probably already cheated and her "fking soft hands" were wrapped around her coworker's pee pee.

Sorry.


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## Chulo (6 mo ago)

Andy1001 said:


> You are giving her all the power in your relationship and she’s using your weakness to cheat on you.
> Look up the “180” and put it into use. And maybe have a chat with a lawyer abusive how a divorce will affect you.
> But please stop being a doormat.
> [/QUOTE





Andy1001 said:


> You are giving her all the power in your relationship and she’s using your weakness to cheat on you.
> Look up the “180” and put it into use. And maybe have a chat with a lawyer about how a divorce will affect you.
> But please stop being a doormat.


Thanks for your input, I will definitely try the 180.
I hate to feel like a doormat, but you're probably right, when I'm in love I tend to forget about myself. But that is the problem as well, I guess I need some "me" time end find joy in life again, even if it's being alone again.


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## Chulo (6 mo ago)

colingrant said:


> Grant her and go live your life.


Live your life is very good advice, I hope I will manage to do so.


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## Chulo (6 mo ago)

D0nnivain said:


> In a healthy marriage when one spouse is struggling they turn to the other for support. She is running away from you & turning to others, then blaming you.
> 
> If she doesn't stop it & start working on the marriage, it's time to end things.


. 


D0nnivain said:


> In a healthy marriage when one spouse is struggling they turn to the other for support. She is running away from you & turning to others, then blaming you.
> 
> If she doesn't stop it & start working on the marriage, it's time to end things.


She did agree to do 2 date night togheter, but yesterday we had one and she was very distance and felt a bit out of my reach. I guess it's also very hard for her to do this because she is really hurt and doesn't know what to do with herself


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## Chulo (6 mo ago)

RandomDude said:


> If a bird is smacking against its cage it's time to set it free.
> 
> Also, she probably already cheated and her "fking soft hands" were wrapped around her coworker's pee pee.
> 
> Sorry.


Hurts man, but maybe that is the correct way to see this.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

Give her what she wants. Tell her that three people in a marriage will not work. While she is at work, you should strongly consider coming home and packing all of her things. Leave a note for her asking her to leave NOW and move in with her Mr. wonderful.

Why would you wish to stay married to someone who has zero respect for you? 180! Now.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

Give her divorce papers. Let the reality of losing you hit her. If she agrees to the divorce right away, she wasn't worth fighting for. Otherwise she will keep you in limbo indefinitely.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

May I ask what is her original home country?


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## Chulo (6 mo ago)

Tatsuhiko said:


> Give her divorce papers. Let the reality of losing you hit her. If she agrees to the divorce right away, she wasn't worth fighting for. Otherwise she will keep you in limbo indefinitely.


What about showing her that


No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> Give her what she wants. Tell her that three people in a marriage will not work. While she is at work, you should strongly consider coming home and packing all of her things. Leave a note for her asking her to leave NOW and move in with her Mr. wonderful.
> 
> Why would you wish to stay married to someone who has zero respect for you? 180! Now.


I will never do that, it's me who needs to leave. Not her. I think that would be the best solution if I'm reaching that point. The 180 is definitely happing right now.


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## Chulo (6 mo ago)

manfromlamancha said:


> May I ask what is her original home country?


Does it really matter? What would it change?


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## Chulo (6 mo ago)

Tatsuhiko said:


> Give her divorce papers. Let the reality of losing you hit her. If she agrees to the divorce right away, she wasn't worth fighting for. Otherwise she will keep you in limbo indefinitely.


I'm not ready yet, that completely destroying my live in 5 min because I couldn't take a breath and understand what is going on, for the point being made, I don't have any hard evidence that she cheated, I don't have the guts to snuff her phone, and I don't have the ability to make her tell me, saying that I understand what you saying, but I'm always optimistic, thinking that maybe she will understand what she will be missing and get back into this relationship. Because we were really happy before that, and I know she is thinking about this too.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

Chulo said:


> I guess it's also very hard for her to do this because she is really hurt and doesn't know what to do with herself


Ten years ago both of my parents died within 2 years of each other. I was at a loss & fell in to a deep depression. I know her hurt but I didn't cheat on my husband. That is a BS excuse. I certainly wasn't a bundle of fun, barely kept house & was hard to get off the couch but cheating is not the answer.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

She has/is cheating on you.

She is monkey branching. She need to know if the coworker is going to work out before she ends the marriage. She is asking for permission for her side to be open and not yours.

Tell her that she has opened the relationship by what she is doing. That her actions are what is creating the distance in the relationship not yours. That you will start exploring your feelings with other women seeing how she is exploring hers with another man.


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## Chulo (6 mo ago)

D0nnivain said:


> Ten years ago both of my parents died within 2 years of each other. I was at a loss & fell in to a deep depression. I know her hurt but I didn't cheat on my husband. That is a BS excuse. I certainly wasn't a bundle of fun, barely kept house & was hard to get off the couch but cheating is not the answer.


I think is a combination of depression, loss, disappointment and general fear of being true to me. That is something that is hard to cope after a lost of a dear one. I read a lot about it so I could understand how to help her in this situation. People looking for fresh start because then all the pain and suffer disappeared, because they don't really have that "bag" of share emotions with them. It's easy to accept someone new the dealing with someone who gave you support and love and disappointment equally.


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## Chulo (6 mo ago)

ABHale said:


> She has/is cheating on you.
> 
> She is monkey branching. She need to know if the coworker is going to work out before she ends the marriage. She is asking for permission for her side to be open and not yours.
> 
> Tell her that she has opened the relationship by what she is doing. That her actions are what is creating the distance in the relationship not yours. That you will start exploring your feelings with other women seeing how she is exploring hers with another man.


I said something like that, and she practically did like "ah". I'm sure that bother her because a year a go she would have cut my **** off. But I know that trying something like that is childish and really out of me league. About that she open the relationship, I know you're right. I told her that to but the reply was the same as before, trust me I'm not going to do anything and if I did you will be OK.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Chulo said:


> .
> 
> She did agree to do 2 date night togheter, but yesterday we had one and she was very distance and felt a bit out of my reach. I guess it's also very hard for her to do this because she is really hurt and doesn't know what to do with herself


Bull crap!!!

It’s how dare you interrupt her time with her lover. She believes you should know your place, at home taking care of the house like you were.

I agree with the other one that said to pack her stuff. Pack it and drop her off at his house and kick her out ok the car. Unload her **** and leave.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Chulo said:


> I think is a combination of depression, loss, disappointment and general fear of being true to me. That is something that is hard to cope after a lost of a dear one. I read a lot about it so I could understand how to help her in this situation. People looking for fresh start because then all the pain and suffer disappeared, because they don't really have that "bag" of share emotions with them. It's easy to accept someone new the dealing with someone who gave you support and love and disappointment equally.


You’re just making excuses for her now. Sad


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## Chulo (6 mo ago)

ABHale said:


> You’re just making excuses for her now. Sad


Have you been in this position before? Sorry if I'm intrusive


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Chulo said:


> .
> 
> She did agree to do 2 date night togheter, but yesterday we had one and she was very distance and felt a bit out of my reach. I guess it's also very hard for her to do this because she is really hurt and doesn't know what to do with herself


You need to STOP being romantic and dating your wife under these circumstances.

She is disrespecting you and cheating on you (100%).

Put your foot down and tell her that you will not allow her to socialize with her coworkers after office hours. You will divorce her otherwise. No _ifs_ and _buts._

This is not what you signed up for, right? Do not be a doormat then.

And absolute NO to open marriage. No woman respects a BETA ****, ever.

Stop drinking and recollect yourself. You have tough decisions to make.


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## SongoftheSouth (Apr 22, 2014)

You cannot hold someone hostage in a marriage even if you want to keep it going, if she wants out there is nothing you can do. I clung to my marriage too long and it just cost me a few more years of misery and the outcome is the same - divorce. Learn from my mistake the sooner you end this the better it is for everyone


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

If you want to save your relationship, you have to be willing to lose it.

Have some self respect and tell her to leave if she wants to figure herself out. That you won’t stay in a relationship with someone that can treat you with such callous behavior and disrespect.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Chulo said:


> Have you been in this position before? Sorry if I'm intrusive


If you mean the death of parents yes. My wife lost her mom and dad. She was in my arms crying and for comfort. I was there for her during both of their deaths. She never felt the need to find someone else as far as I know. She never went out drinking with coworkers even with me say that she should hang out with her friends. She was at her moms place most of the time with the kids before her death. Even after their loss she never went out with friends.

Just so you know. Her mom’s death was long and drawn out. If was hard seeing her like that.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Just so you know, romantic dates and you trying so hard is not the way to go. It’s called the pick me dance, it never works.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Chulo said:


> .
> 
> She did agree to do 2 date night togheter, but yesterday we had one and she was very distance and felt a bit out of my reach. I guess it's also very hard for her to do this because she is really hurt and doesn't know what to do with herself


Once cheaters start cheating, they often feel guilty being with their spouses.

When was the last time you and she had sex with each other?

Wake up and protect yourself.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

Chulo said:


> I think is a combination of depression, loss, disappointment and *general fear of being true to me*.


What? She should fear losing you not being committed to you. If that is her attitude, if she can't embrace monogamy, there is nothing for you to save. She has already left the marriage. Simply formalize things & move along. In your shoes I'd be furious, not understanding & accomodating.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Chulo said:


> .
> 
> She did agree to do 2 date night togheter, but yesterday we had one and she was very distance and felt a bit out of my reach. I guess it's also very hard for her to do this because she is really hurt and doesn't know what to do with herself


She was distant because she was longing for the man she is in love with, and right now that isn't you. It is her coworker. You've already lost your wife, I'm so sorry.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Chulo said:


> I'm not ready yet, that completely destroying my live in 5 min because I couldn't take a breath and understand what is going on, for the point being made, I don't have any hard evidence that she cheated, I don't have the guts to snuff her phone, and I don't have the ability to make her tell me, saying that I understand what you saying, but I'm always optimistic, thinking that maybe she will understand what she will be missing and get back into this relationship. Because we were really happy before that, and I know she is thinking about this too.


One more of those that come asking what to do because You are the typical, weak dude thst doesn't have the balls to be a man that has self respect and dignity, instead cowards like a child that is afraid to be hit. Preferring his nice living arrangements rather than having the dignity to dump her after being told she wants her freedom. Freedom to **** any dude she feels like it, because that's what she's telling you.

This is why a lot of today's women feel empowered to tell her partner right in their face that they want to **** around, because they know that the pathetic dude they have as a partner won't do a thing other than cry like a baby, beg on their knees, blame themselves for everything and are more desperate than a dog to please their owner. So is it any wonder these women feel so entitled in front of these emasculated men?

These is what all that liberal **** has done to today's males, generation of pussies. 

Thanks God I was born in a different generation. I was taught self respect and dignity. My woman tells me she needs to think about being with me my answer immediately would be: no need to waste your time pondering, get the **** out of my life now. I don't want you either.


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## Chulo (6 mo ago)

SongoftheSouth said:


> You cannot hold someone hostage in a marriage even if you want to keep it going, if she wants out there is nothing you can do. I clung to my marriage too long and it just cost me a few more years of misery and the outcome is the same - divorce. Learn from my mistake the sooner you end this the better it is for everyone


Thanks for sharing your personal experience, I don't hold her hostage, quite the opposite, I ask her and let her have the call about open relationship or some other way to help her figure out what she feels. 
She does not want out, but she do need to make h
er mind soon, if the issue stays, then I will move on, because like you said this is a loss fight


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## Chulo (6 mo ago)

ABHale said:


> If you mean the death of parents yes. My wife lost her mom and dad. She was in my arms crying and for comfort. I was there for her during both of their deaths. She never felt the need to find someone else as far as I know. She never went out drinking with coworkers even with me say that she should hang out with her friends. She was at her moms place most of the time with the kids before her death. Even after their loss she never went out with friends.
> 
> Just so you know. Her mom’s death was long and drawn out. If was hard seeing her like that.


First, so sorry for the pain that she endure, it's not easy and definitely you're the best guy for her. Saying this, we are right now in a different position, because like you said, she is completely committed to your relationship (speaking of kids - which I don't have sadly), crying in your arms and all those conversations we did have and I was there for her(phone or physically-it was mid Covid crises and I couldn't flight to her funeral). She have some angry feelings about that and I understand but not blaming myself, because it was out of my control. 
Understand that we got even more connected because of covid while people around us got separated in extremely painful times. 
I need to keep some of this still alive because I feel deep inside that this might be just a phase that we will be able to laugh in the future, because we always did make it about us against the world.


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## Chulo (6 mo ago)

Sfort said:


> Once cheaters start cheating, they often feel guilty being with their spouses.
> 
> When was the last time you and she had sex with each other?
> 
> Wake up and protect yourself.


Actually, this morning. 
About the guilt, I not argue with you. I read 1000 of different papers about it and you're right. 
But in the same manner, men cheat on their spouse too, and sometimes they forgive and sometimes not. Like I said, I don't think there is anything physical between them, but emotionally texting yes. Didn't you see this kind of behavior in different men and they didn't divorce or cheated?


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## bricks (Aug 14, 2017)

If your wife is not cheating, she is getting up the nerve to cheat. She is not willing to give up whatever excitement she thinks is out there. Ask her to leave. You deserve better. Maybe she will come to her senses


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Chulo said:


> Thanks for sharing your personal experience, I don't hold her hostage, quite the opposite, I ask her and let her have the call about open relationship or some other way to help her figure out what she feels.
> She does not want out, but she do need to make h
> er mind soon, if the issue stays, then I will move on, because like you said this is a loss fight


Wake up. Her actions say she’s already gone. Her words don’t mean a thing. What you need to realize is you aren’t losing much. Doing the infamous ‘Pick Me Dance’ and laying in the victim chair makes you look weak and unattractive. If you chase they only move farther away. Everything you are doing is working against you.
Download and read ‘No More Mr Nice Guy’ by glover. It’s a free pdf and short.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Chulo said:


> Actually, this morning.
> About the guilt, I not argue with you. I read 1000 of different papers about it and you're right.
> But in the same manner, men cheat on their spouse too, and sometimes they forgive and sometimes not. Like I said, I don't think there is anything physical between them, but emotionally texting yes. Didn't you see this kind of behavior in different men and they didn't divorce or cheated?


You’re in denial and living on hopium. That won’t get you a thing. 
Go online and review her phone bill. Maybe that will wake you up to reality.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Marc878 said:


> You’re in denial and living on hopium. That won’t get you a thing.
> Go online and review her phone bill. Maybe that will wake you up to reality.


Why does this seem to always be the formula? Am I that rare of a person for how I handled it?


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Chulo said:


> Does it really matter? What would it change?


Actually it could explain certain behaviours. Think about Philippines, Dominican Republic, Ukraine etc


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

When a spouse claims that they need space to figure themselves out, that's code for, "I want to bang someone else without you knowing and bugging me about it." You have already received a lot of good advice here so man up and get to it.


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## Chulo (6 mo ago)

Marc878 said:


> Wake up. Her actions say she’s already gone. Her words don’t mean a thing. What you need to realize is you aren’t losing much. Doing the infamous ‘Pick Me Dance’ and laying in the victim chair makes you look weak and unattractive. If you chase they only move farther away. Everything you are doing is working against you.
> Download and read ‘No More Mr Nice Guy’ by glover. It’s a free pdf and short.


Thanks for giving me the insight about the pick me up dance, I didn't knew that it was a thing, basically you're saying that I'm fu**** all the way, just leave the divorce paper and leave. I don't know if I can do this right now, I need some time to think about it because I don't want to make a decision and regret it afterwards.


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## Chulo (6 mo ago)

Marc878 said:


> You’re in denial and living on hopium. That won’t get you a thing.
> Go online and review her phone bill. Maybe that will wake you up to reality.


Check her phone again? If I don't find anything, what then? If she deleted everything and just want some time off? Then I will lose her because of my insecurities. I promise to keep out of her phone like a real partner needs to be.


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## Chulo (6 mo ago)

Marc878 said:


> Wake up. Her actions say she’s already gone. Her words don’t mean a thing. What you need to realize is you aren’t losing much. Doing the infamous ‘Pick Me Dance’ and laying in the victim chair makes you look weak and unattractive. If you chase they only move farther away. Everything you are doing is working against you.
> Download and read ‘No More Mr Nice Guy’ by glover. It’s a free pdf and short.


And I will read that book, thanks for the advise.


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## Willnotbill (May 13, 2021)

Chulo said:


> Check her phone again? If I don't find anything, what then? If she deleted everything and just want some time off? Then I will lose her because of my insecurities. I promise to keep out of her phone like a real partner needs to be.


In a good marriage there is open communication and no secrets - including social media, phone and computer passwords. Everything is an open book because there should be nothing is secret. People don't hide things if there is nothing to hide. My wife knows all my passwords and I know all hers and we use each others phones and computer. If your wife says you can't look at her phone then she is hiding something in my opinion. That alone should tell you something isn't right.


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## Kaliber (Apr 10, 2020)

Chulo said:


> Actually, this morning.
> About the guilt, I not argue with you. I read 1000 of different papers about it and you're right.
> But in the same manner, men cheat on their spouse too, and sometimes they forgive and sometimes not. Like I said, I don't think there is anything physical between them, but emotionally texting yes. Didn't you see this kind of behavior in different men and they didn't divorce or cheated?


@Chulo my man!
I'm so sorry that you going through hell right now!
But you're navigating these crises with the wrong attitude!

The way you approach this problem is by acting with dignity, self respect, honour and pride, after all, these are the core values that *separates the men from the boys*, these values are the capital assets in any man's life, once you compromise on any of these values you lose in life and women!

That's what the posters here are trying to tell you!
The 180 helps a lot (It's good that you will start ASAP on it) but you need to be decisive and proactive, *you need to be willing to lose your marriage in order to save it!*
By given your wife the power to choose between two men sends a VERY negative message about you and your values, you're basically sending the message that she's the prize not you (The faithful one)!
This will make the co-worker look more attractive to her, she will think that you are a SIMP pining after her!

A rule you need to understand (it never changes, it's basic biology, it's there since the beginning of time):

Women are the gatekeepers for sexual intimacy (ex. you can't force a women to have sex with you, that's rape, a horrible crime).
Men are the gatekeepers for relationship and commitment (ex. women can't force you to commit to/marry them and make you their companion, protector and provider).
You're the gatekeeper for your relationship and commitment not the other way around, you have that power, use it, pull that commitment away, show her in action that you have ZERO tolerance for disloyalty, show her that you will hold your dignity, self respect, and honour at all costs!

Your wife (and Women in general) will always think: *what kind of a man tolerates my promiscuous behaviour and waits for me to come back, he must be so weak and desperate!*
Understand this: Women want men not boys!
The way you're acting now is really not attractive, and you're pushing her more away from you, that's why you hear the relationship rule: *The one that cares less in a relationship holds all the power!*

You need to care less about her since she is the one that started to step out, and you do that by upholding you values at all costs (dignity, self respect, honour and pride)
I broke up with my fiancé because she flirted with her guy friends (texting) it wasn't even sexting or any meet ups, when it comes to loyalty and fidelity I have ZERO tolerance, and till today she sends me birthday cards hoping that she can have a chance!
That's why I was very successful with women (I'm married now), I dated all types and races!
I know how women operates when it comes to relationships, and how attractiveness work, I have a wealth of experience, if you continue with this attitude you will never be successful in any relationship you have!

This women is not your girlfriend, She is your wife!
This is a different level, a whole new level of commitment and companionship!
You said you were there for her, you supported her, you took care of the house, you did many things as a good husband should do!
What did her co-worker provide for her so he can enjoy good time with your wife, a really good time that he had to text *a married woman* and tell her *that her skin (hands) was f***ing soft* and *amazing*?!
Did you add the *hands* in there, or did the co-worker say it, because that makes a lot of difference?!!

This man did nothing compared to what you did... NOTHING, and he took or will take everything including the most valuable thing she holds as a wife: *her womb! (The place that should be reserved for your children, your legacy)!*

A rule of thumb: *NEVER pay the full price for something that another man can get for free! (*Think about this, read it a couple of times)
@Chulo I promise you, if you uphold your values you will be successful in ways you have never imagined!
Never bend backwords to anyone!


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Chulo said:


> Check her phone again? If I don't find anything, what then? If she deleted everything and just want some time off? Then I will lose her because of my insecurities. I promise to keep out of her phone like a real partner needs to be.


You don’t check the phone. If it’s what it looks like she’ll delete the info.
You check the phone bill for call and text activity. It’ll probably be a clue of who she’s in contact with. How long and how much. Normally you can download the activities and sort the data. It’s an easy quick check.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Chulo said:


> .
> 
> She did agree to do 2 date night togheter, but yesterday we had one and she was very distance and felt a bit out of my reach. I guess it's also very hard for her to do this because she is really hurt and doesn't know what to do with herself


it’s because she checked out of your marriage and is interested in someone else!

divorce her! She’s acting single and completely disrespecting you. It’s over - know that.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Chulo said:


> Thanks for giving me the insight about the pick me up dance, I didn't knew that it was a thing, basically you're saying that I'm fu**** all the way, just leave the divorce paper and leave. I don't know if I can do this right now, I need some time to think about it because I don't want to make a decision and regret it afterwards.


Most in your situation will do this out of desperation. It works the opposite of what you think.
Confrontation to early just causes them to go deeper underground. 
The ‘pick me dance’ lowers your status while making others look even better.
If she is cheating your indecision is her best friend and your worst enemy.
You only need enough information for you. This isn’t a court of law where you must have concrete proof.
Only you can keep yourself in limbo. Right now you are giving her total control. That gets you nothing.
You can only control you. Right now you have yourself stuck. No one has any power over you unless you give it to them. 
If you don’t wake up to reality you will suffer more and longer.
There is no magic fix.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Chulo said:


> And I will read that book, thanks for the advise.


The quicker the better. You need to understand words are meaningless. Actions are all that count. 
Her actions tell you more. Most like you get hung up on words. Plus you can talk all you want but only your actions will count for much.
How do you like living like this? Life is short. Don’t waste it.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Many like you get hung up on the ‘I love her so she must love me too’. Nope, her actions tell you she doesn’t but right now you don’t want to see the truth. Which is what her actions tell you.
In essence you are lying to yourself l


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Willnotbill said:


> In a good marriage there is open communication and no secrets - including social media, phone and computer passwords. Everything is an open book because there should be nothing is secret. People don't hide things if there is nothing to hide. My wife knows all my passwords and I know all hers and we use each others phones and computer. If your wife says you can't look at her phone then she is hiding something in my opinion. That alone should tell you something isn't right.


Absolutely. Me (and my wife) also have access to each other's gadgets and accounts. WE also have open communication and no secrets. This level of openness represents a good marriage in current times.

Men who are hesitant to lead, define marital boundaries, and seek open communication with their wives, are very likely to be exploited down the road. These are important considerations to set the tone of a marital relationship [early on].

It will be increasingly difficult to reason with a wife at a later stage if she has grown accustomed to be put on the pedestal and made to believe that she have the right to privacy and can do whatever she wants out there.

Many men SIMP to their wives to such a degree that they become a doormat in the process, and are hit with the ILYBINILWY bomb one day. Then they wonder what happened.

Rules for securing your marriage:

1. Trust, but verify.

2. Define a boundary (or boundaries) for any NEW development that might affect your marriage. Do not give unprecedented freedom to your spouse.

3. Insist on open communication and no secrets.

4. Make friends who respect your marriage as well.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Chulo said:


> First, so sorry for the pain that she endure, it's not easy and definitely you're the best guy for her. Saying this, we are right now in a different position, because like you said, she is completely committed to your relationship (speaking of kids - which I don't have sadly), crying in your arms and all those conversations we did have and I was there for her(phone or physically-it was mid Covid crises and I couldn't flight to her funeral). She have some angry feelings about that and I understand but not blaming myself, because it was out of my control.
> Understand that we got even more connected because of covid while people around us got separated in extremely painful times.
> I need to keep some of this still alive because I feel deep inside that this might be just a phase that we will be able to laugh in the future, because we always did make it about us against the world.


Would you really laugh about your wife having sex with someone else?

She isn’t going to his house to talk.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Honestly what has she done to prove she isn’t having a sexual relationship with this coworker?

O, that’s right, her friend was with her at his house til the early hours of the morning. I am betting he had a great threesome with your wife and friend.

I am done. I really wish you’re right about the coworker just being a “friend”. I have yet to see a thread on here where that was the case.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Chulo said:


> Actually, this morning.
> About the guilt, I not argue with you. I read 1000 of different papers about it and you're right.
> But in the same manner, men cheat on their spouse too, and sometimes they forgive and sometimes not. Like I said, I don't think there is anything physical between them, but emotionally texting yes. Didn't you see this kind of behavior in different men and they didn't divorce or cheated?


What I wrote applies equally to men and women. Maybe I don't understand your question. In any case, you don't seem very receptive to the advice being offered here. Just understand that you have a real problem.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Chulo said:


> .
> 
> She did agree to do 2 date night togheter, but yesterday we had one and she was very distance and felt a bit out of my reach. I guess it's also very hard for her to do this because she is really hurt and doesn't know what to do with herself


She’s not really hurt. I wish I was a close friend of yours. If so I’d slap you into reality every time you said that crap. 
She’s cheating on you, her emotions are directed elsewhere and she has none for you.

As long as you are stuck fretting about HER feelings when she’s cheating, you and your hysterical bonding attempts will drive her away.

You have only one hope to save this, and impersonality don’t think you should, but here it is:

File for divorce, hand her papers, and tell her NOTHING about how you feel other than she’s a cheater, you’ll not tolerate an unfaithful wife, and to pack her bags and let MR I-love-soft-skin take care of you.
Then show her no emotion. Give her nothing that isn’t required by law. No emotional support, no ego kibbles. What you’re doing makes her thing she’s worth everything and yo her your value is zero. She’s flat out cheating on you. Being an emotional wussy doesn’t get then back. Blowing up her world, and letting her see she has a man that can do without her and one that won’t support her in infidelity might shake her up. He’s slredd as fun screwing her. Let him have her full time! He may decide she’s not do great and dump her.

your pick me dance is 100% sure you not only work, but proven to drive then straight away, as it’s doing.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Chulo said:


> Thanks for sharing your personal experience, I don't hold her hostage, quite the opposite*, I ask her and let her have the call about open relationship or some other way to help her figure out what she feels.*
> She does not want out, but she do need to make h
> er mind soon, if the issue stays, then I will move on, because like you said this is a loss fight


You are a hopeless case with this attitude. I’m feeling empathy anger on your behalf. You need to borrow some.
Let her have the call on an open relationship?
Damn, no wonder she’s chasing a man, you’re not acting like one. She wants a man. Be that man. Don’t accept poo Sammiches.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Chulo said:


> Actually, this morning.
> About the guilt, I not argue with you. I read 1000 of different papers about it and you're right.
> But in the same manner, men cheat on their spouse too, and sometimes they forgive and sometimes not. Like I said, *I don't think there is anything physical between them,* but emotionally texting yes. Didn't you see this kind of behavior in different men and they didn't divorce or cheated?


He’s telling her how soft her skin is abd you don’t think there’s anythjng physical?
HUH??????????
The force is strong in you. The force of denial.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Denmark flag. Sorry but I recognize the flag.

My sympathies. This Guy is getting beat up here pretty good, but the posters mean well and are mostly right. (Kind of hard to watch though). Hopefully he just needs more time to process all this. Personally, I was a big dummass and didn't want to believe either. 

OP. One thing to remember is that many of us have been exactly where you are right now. That's a big reason why we're here.


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## Chulo (6 mo ago)

Marc878 said:


> Many like you get hung up on the ‘I love her so she must love me too’. Nope, her actions tell you she doesn’t but right now you don’t want to see the truth. Which is what her actions tell you.
> In essence you are lying to yourself l


First, I wanted to thank you for washing me like this, I guess I need this to learn more about why my mind is stuck like a little "boy". 
Lying to myself? Yeap, we all do in some way and I need to stop this now. I'm committed to the 180 and give some time to get me back in business. You know I wasn't like this 6 months ago! That is f**** up!


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## Chulo (6 mo ago)

Sfort said:


> What I wrote applies equally to men and women. Maybe I don't understand your question. In any case, you don't seem very receptive to the advice being offered here. Just understand that you have a real problem.


My point was that people live their life after being cheated (together), and you can always forgive or forget (not that I'm planning on doing so), I just trying to see all options. I know that I have a real problem and I will take care of this. Like I said to others, I wasn't like this 6 months ago. Romantic yes, treated like ****- definitely not.


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## Chulo (6 mo ago)

ABHale said:


> Honestly what has she done to prove she isn’t having a sexual relationship with this coworker?
> 
> O, that’s right, her friend was with her at his house til the early hours of the morning. I am betting he had a great threesome with your wife and friend.
> 
> I am done. I really wish you’re right about the coworker just being a “friend”. I have yet to see a thread on here where that was the case.


To be honest, I don't know bro, and I know that you're right because I thought it myself but I try so hard to delete that felling because it broke me down.


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## Chulo (6 mo ago)

Kaliber said:


> @Chulo my man!
> I'm so sorry that you going through hell right now!
> But you're navigating these crises with the wrong attitude!
> 
> ...


This was a powerful and strong presentation, thank you so much for putting the effort (and all the rest of this community) in helping a complete lost dude who lives in a foreign country with his wife and feels completely alone and without any real friends. 
I ask for help and she declined, I ask for forgiveness (because we all do stupid **** along the way but never this serious), I try my best and still got empty handed. 
Yes I'm going to commit to the 180, I gonna get my s*** together, because I wasn't like this before. 
I gonna go out and enjoy the day, no household, no romance, no messages, no phone, nothing to give her more power over me, nothing to give her toxic mind more fuel, she wants to play games, let the games begin. Respect myself is critical to claim my dignity again. I need to wake up and not feel scare that she is not right next to me in bed. 
One question, keep having sex with her or should I stop?


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Chulo said:


> I'm not ready yet, that completely destroying my live in 5 min because I couldn't take a breath and understand what is going on, for the point being made, I don't have any hard evidence that she cheated, I *don't have the guts to snuff her phone, and I don't have the ability to make her tell me*, saying that I understand what you saying, but I'm always optimistic, thinking that maybe she will understand what she will be missing and get back into this relationship.


why are you so weak and powerless in your marriage? You are choosing to be a weak, pathetic doormat?
Your entire mindset and behavior is why she doesn’t respect you and wants another man.
If you want any hope of maintaining your dignity, you need to take control of this situation on your terms and stop being a supplicating simp.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Chulo said:


> First, I wanted to thank you for washing me like this, I guess I need this to learn more about why my mind is stuck like a little "boy".
> Lying to myself? Yeap, we all do in some way and I need to stop this now. I'm committed to the 180 and give some time to get me back in business. You know I wasn't like this 6 months ago! That is f**** up!


Most like you are in shock upfront. Never thinking you’d have to deal with this. 
Most upfront panic. They end up in the betrayed spouse syndrome thinking if they were at fault they can fix it. Faulty thinking. Marriage takes two. You alone can’t fix it. 
Most just want them back without thinking long term. What are you getting back? 
So they end up doing the pick me dance, etc. Things that work against you. 
Many just rugsweep which causes long term consequences. Is this something you can live with?
Even if they come back will they do it again? Repeats are real and happen all the time.
Some end up putting themselves in limbo and some keep themselves there for long periods of time. 
Unable or unwilling to make a decision so they make excuses to do nothing.
Don’t be your own worst enemy.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Also, she probably already cheated and her "fking soft hands" were wrapped around her coworker's pee pee.


 pee pee omg 



Chulo said:


> I think is a combination of depression, loss, disappointment and general fear of being true to me. That is something that is hard to cope after a lost of a dear one. I read a lot about it so I could understand how to help her in this situation. People looking for fresh start because then all the pain and suffer disappeared, because they don't really have that "bag" of share emotions with them. It's easy to accept someone new the dealing with someone who gave you support and love and disappointment equally.


BOLLOCKS. Do you seriously think she's the only married person who's ever lost a parent? Many, many posters here have, myself included, and we didn't carry on like this, cheating, lying and skulking around disrespecting our spouses like alley cats. Come on OP. Wake up.



Chulo said:


> I promise to keep out of her phone like a real partner needs to be.


Both of you should have full access to each others phones, email etc. Not to snoop or check up on each other, but because there should be no secrets in marriage, that's not how marriage works. I often ask my husband if he can check my email for me if I'm waiting for something to come in, usually while I'm up to my elbows in dog hair or some other activity where i can't do it myself.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Chulo said:


> One question, keep having sex with her or should I stop?


For crying out Lord dude, NO.

I think that you need to have a clear understanding what dignity and self respect means. 

How can you claim to have manhood, and go to bed at the same time with a woman that is planning (if not already) to **** other men? How can you have the stomach for that?

No sex is part of the 180 to help you detach. By no engaging her on anything you are taking control of your live, your future. DETACH. Show her that you are your own man


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## jparistotle (Jul 10, 2018)

Chulo said:


> Me (36) and my wife (36)are married for almost 8 years, last year my wife lost her mother and I was very supportive. I try to show her as much love as possible and giving her free space so she can deal with her emotions. Just to mention that in the time of her mother being treated for cancer and afterwards I was alone in my house for almost 8 months, while she was at her origin country.
> After a while she got accepted into a new job and I was tremendously happy for her, knowing that this will help her to move forward with her life and feel good again.
> 
> My problem began when recently she started to hang out more then usual with co-workers and social events until late at night.
> ...


Time to start talking about DIVORCE if you have not had that conversation. Then you will be trully free to persure you lifes goals. No looking back. Tell her do not sugar coat it and move on.


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## threats5_7496 (7 mo ago)

It seems like she is trying to "Have her cake and eat it too." She wants the security of you being around but at the same time playing with the idea of other men. I have been in this situation myself before. The best thing to do is work on yourself detached from her altogether. Don't let her decide your life.


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## Chulo (6 mo ago)

threats5_7496 said:


> It seems like she is trying to "Have her cake and eat it too." She wants the security of you being around but at the same time playing with the idea of other men. I have been in this situation myself before. The best thing to do is work on yourself detached from her altogether. Don't let her decide your life.


To be honest, she send me a message after I finish working telling me she is going out with a friend, then she came 4 hours later happy, she direct told me she is going out also tomorrow with the team, then with another team from the office on Thursday, then on Friday they have "Friday bar" (drinking in the office, tradition in Denmark) 
I guess I am a fool and being played all along, I ask her if she want to have sex now and she like guilty voice said yes(I have no interest or intentions of doing that), f*** I'm starting to think about STD, not to mention that I smell different fragrance on her. I starting tomorrow the papers. I feel like the worst nightmare came alive, fu***** Vecna. Ans she definitely had the cake made for her in different positions with extra flavor on the top.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Chulo said:


> To be honest, she send me a message after I finish working telling me she is going out with a friend, then she came 4 hours later happy, she direct told me she is going out also tomorrow with the team, then with another team from the office on Thursday, then on Friday they have "Friday bar" (drinking in the office, tradition in Denmark)
> I guess I am a fool and being played all along, I ask her if she want to have sex now and she like guilty voice said yes(I have no interest or intentions of doing that), f*** I'm starting to think about STD, not to mention that I smell different fragrance on her. I starting tomorrow the papers. I feel like the worst nightmare came alive, fu***** Vecna. Ans she definitely had the cake made for her in different positions with extra flavor on the top.


Good. Staying in this means you’ll just get more of what you’ve been getting.
No contact is your new best friend. Let her go and save yourself. She doesn’t care.Maher actions tell you that.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Chulo said:


> To be honest, she send me a message after I finish working telling me she is going out with a friend, then she came 4 hours later happy, she direct told me she is going out also tomorrow with the team, then with another team from the office on Thursday, then on Friday they have "Friday bar" (drinking in the office, tradition in Denmark)
> I guess I am a fool and being played all along, I ask her if she want to have sex now and she like guilty voice said yes(I have no interest or intentions of doing that), f*** I'm starting to think about STD, not to mention that I smell different fragrance on her. I starting tomorrow the papers. I feel like the worst nightmare came alive, fu***** Vecna. Ans she definitely had the cake made for her in different positions with extra flavor on the top.


Stop all interactions with her. Do you know what rock graying is? Do it.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Chulo said:


> To be honest, she send me a message after I finish working telling me she is going out with a friend, then she came 4 hours later happy, she direct told me she is going out also tomorrow with the team, then with another team from the office on Thursday, then on Friday they have "Friday bar" (drinking in the office, tradition in Denmark)
> I guess I am a fool and being played all along, I ask her if she want to have sex now and she like guilty voice said yes(I have no interest or intentions of doing that), f*** I'm starting to think about STD, not to mention that I smell different fragrance on her. I starting tomorrow the papers. I feel like the worst nightmare came alive, fu***** Vecna. Ans she definitely had the cake made for her in different positions with extra flavor on the top.


You still don’t seem to understand that YOU enabled this with your passiveness, lack of boundaries and by tolerating her behavior. 

It’s not just her, it’s YOU.
Women respect strength and leadership, and despise passive, weak men. She doesn’t respect you and that is a large part of why she wants other men and is behaving this way. 

Yes, you need to take action now.
But if you don’t change yourself, the same thing will happen next time with another woman.


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## Chulo (6 mo ago)

DudeInProgress said:


> You still don’t seem to understand that YOU enabled this with your passiveness, lack of boundaries and by tolerating her behavior.
> 
> It’s not just her, it’s YOU.
> Women respect strength and leadership, and despise passive, weak men. She doesn’t respect you and that is a large part of why she wants other men and is behaving this way.
> ...


You are completely right and I'm leaning now the hard way, trust me it's hard but positive. Thanks


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## Chulo (6 mo ago)

Rob_1 said:


> Stop all interactions with her. Do you know what rock graying is? Do it.


I think that 180 is better. But combining those 2 could be a great success 💪


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Chulo said:


> To be honest, she send me a message after I finish working telling me she is going out with a friend, then she came 4 hours later happy, she direct told me she is going out also tomorrow with the team, then with another team from the office on Thursday, then on Friday they have "Friday bar" (drinking in the office, tradition in Denmark)
> I guess I am a fool and being played all along, I ask her if she want to have sex now and she like guilty voice said yes(I have no interest or intentions of doing that), f*** I'm starting to think about STD, not to mention that I smell different fragrance on her. I starting tomorrow the papers. I feel like the worst nightmare came alive, fu***** Vecna. Ans she definitely had the cake made for her in different positions with extra flavor on the top.


I told you that your wife is cheating. Following revelation:

_"I found messages with one of her co-workers saying that he had a really good time and that her skin (hands) was ****ing soft and amazing (she really has amazing skin)."_

- is a RED FLAG and screams "cheating." This is Physical Affair (PA) level cheating.

I completely understand that this is very painful chapter in your life.

You need to stop drinking, recollect yourself, and prepare to divorce your wife.

Pay close attention to what I have disclosed in my posts in your thread.









Wife wants to be a free bird again


. She did agree to do 2 date night togheter, but yesterday we had one and she was very distance and felt a bit out of my reach. I guess it's also very hard for her to do this because she is really hurt and doesn't know what to do with herself Bull crap!!! It’s how dare you interrupt her time...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com













Wife wants to be a free bird again


When a spouse claims that they need space to figure themselves out, that's code for, "I want to bang someone else without you knowing and bugging me about it." You have already received a lot of good advice here so man up and get to it.




www.talkaboutmarriage.com





Keep these suggestions in your mind FOR LIFE. Other men have also given you valuable perspective and advise. Take notes.

Become STRONG
Become ALPHA
Become the Man that a woman fears loosing (you should not fear)

Continue to develop your skills and improve your earning prospects.

If (or when) another woman will come in your life, you will know how to handle her and manage your relationship.

You need to do this:

1. Check her phone and gather evidence of the contents that show that she have strayed/betrayed you.

2. CONFRONT her (with Divorce Papers in your hands).

IF she is remorseful then ask her what steps she will take to salvage this marriage.

IF she make excuses or blame you, then serve her with divorce papers, and tell her to pack her stuff and leave.

IF she does not want to leave then do not sleep with her in the same bedroom. But tell her that you will sell this house (if you have to), to remove her from your life.

BE COLD - NO TEARS throughout this confrontation.

Another thing that comes to mind is that her office is a professional work environment or a hookup center? You need to consult a lawyer in this regard as well. This can be a potential lawsuit in your favor. No harm in discussing this matter with a lawyer. Get in touch with a good one by the way.

Keep us informed.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Chulo said:


> I think that 180 is better. But combining those 2 could be a great success 💪


Just remember contact only hurts you. She doesn’t care.


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## Chulo (6 mo ago)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> I told you that your wife is cheating. Following revelation:
> 
> _"I found messages with one of her co-workers saying that he had a really good time and that her skin (hands) was ****ing soft and amazing (she really has amazing skin)."_
> 
> ...


You said a couple of thing here that I don't know if I want to do:
1- do I really need to check her phone? **** that I'm over that. That would bring another waves of pain that I prefer to avoid (less I know the better for me) 
2-Can I just sign the paper and leave? Like why do I need this? I can do almost anything online these days. Specially in Denmark. 
3-_IF she is remorseful then ask her what steps she will take to salvage this marriage_ (do you know the song-make them laugh?) maybe in one month when she will be lonely, depressed and desperate , maybe (big one) 
She will think about it, she is way over me. 

As for the rest, I'm going to leave, now looking for a place to stay after the papers are filled, probably will buy a ticket home and start over. 
And all of you are right, I will never allow this situation again, I learn my lessons and I thank you for your support. 

As for new beginnings, that might take some time and I will definitely enjoy my single life again. Who know what will happen.

_What would I get with the office thing? Because some messages? Who cares if she gets f*** in the office? _
This wouldn't help get over her, I need to space the f out of this_. _Don't gete wrong, I get your point, but money is not as important as a quiet place in mind, that is my priority now in my life, don't forget I was used like a doormat(that is a compliment, I think I was worse than that) for over 6 months, while trying desperately every romantic blog ideas that I could find to get this marriage to work.

Nah, just let me get my life back and say good luck and move on.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Chulo said:


> You said a couple of thing here that I don't know if I want to do:
> 1- do I really need to check her phone? **** that I'm over that. That would bring another waves of pain that I prefer to avoid (less I know the better for me)


It can be helpful to collect evidence of cheating for potential use in "verbal confrontation phase." 

Evidence [on hand] makes it possible for the Betrayed Spouse (BS) to refute LIES of the Wayward Spouse (WS) in "verbal confrontation phase." The WS will not be able to deny, gaslight or fool the BS in this case.



Chulo said:


> 2-Can I just sign the paper and leave? Like why do I need this? I can do almost anything online these days. Specially in Denmark.


My suggestion is to confront her and let her know in very clear terms that WHY you have decided to divorce her. Give your peace of mind to her in this regard and tell her to sign divorce papers in your presence.

*IF* you do NOT want to confront her then leave a note on your divorce papers for her to read; mention your thoughts and reason(s) to divorce her on this note. In this case, you can be in another location and wait for her call.

Point is to make her aware of the fact the SHE is responsible for destroying her marriage.

You living in rental property (or) you are the owner of your home?

*IF* you are the owner of your home then make HER leave your home instead. She belongs to the streets, not you. You can sell your property and move out any time regardless.

*IF* you living in rental property then you may leave instead.



Chulo said:


> 3-_IF she is remorseful then ask her what steps she will take to salvage this marriage_ (do you know the song-make them laugh?) maybe in one month when she will be lonely, depressed and desperate , maybe (big one)
> She will think about it, she is way over me.


I understand. 



Chulo said:


> As for the rest, I'm going to leave, now looking for a place to stay after the papers are filled, probably will buy a ticket home and start over.


See above.



Chulo said:


> And all of you are right, I will never allow this situation again, I learn my lessons and I thank you for your support.


You're welcome, bro.

Very sorry for your situation but you will HEAL and become strong. Best wishes.



Chulo said:


> As for new beginnings, that might take some time and I will definitely enjoy my single life again. Who know what will happen.


Sure.



Chulo said:


> _What would I get with the office thing? Because some messages? Who cares if she gets f*** in the office? _
> This wouldn't help get over her, I need to space the f out of this_. _Don't gete wrong, I get your point, but money is not as important as a quiet place in mind, that is my priority now in my life, don't forget I was used like a doormat(that is a compliment, I think I was worse than that) for over 6 months, while trying desperately every romantic blog ideas that I could find to get this marriage to work.
> 
> Nah, just let me get my life back and say good luck and move on.


This is OPTIONAL.

You do not have to sue the company but would it not be satisfactory to 'crash the party' there through your lawyer? 

A company should have a professional work environment, and should not encourage hookups between employees. How many families would be affected otherwise?

This is not necessarily about money but challenging harmful corporate practice. Doing the right thing. You can discuss this matter with a lawyer and then make up your mind in this regard.

Up to you entirely.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

You MAY want that info off of her phone/email if you have family/friends. SHE will try to re-write the history that you were controlling, you are super jealous, you are insecure, YOU left the marriage and she did nothing to cause it.
The proof (pics her her texts, emails, etc.) can be shown to your/her family to show the thruth.
You can also just shove it in her face when you hand her the divorce papers so that she can't gaslight you.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

She just basically told you she plans to see her OM every night this week - and you decide you will ask her if she wants sex?
Come on man, she is likely a walking disease right now.
She is planning out her entire week to ignore you. Get mad! This isn’t good enough for a spouse that intends to be connected to their spouse.

it’s over. Don’t ask her for anything… just tell her it’s over. She can do whatever she wants as long as she moves out asap. The OM can take her in and pay her bills.


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## Chulo (6 mo ago)

Beach123 said:


> She just basically told you she plans to see her OM every night this week - and you decide you will ask her if she wants sex?
> Come on man, she is likely a walking disease right now.
> She is planning out her entire week to ignore you. Get mad! This isn’t good enough for a spouse that intends to be connected to their spouse.
> 
> it’s over. Don’t ask her for anything… just tell her it’s over. She can do whatever she wants as long as she moves out asap. The OM can take her in and pay her bills.


The sex question was to put her on a spotlight, to see the reaction that I needed to see, because I read that cheaters (after commenting the act and its still fresh) will respond with yes because of shame/guilt/suspects from their spouse , and the feeling she has if she don't act they will lose what they have (which is lost already) . Another thing is like I said there was no interest or real intention, I didn't do anything, no touching her. I don't say I love you, I don't hug, I don't reply to any kind of emotions, she managed to give me a kiss today in the morning while holding me before she left to work and she said I love you, and I said bye, good day. I feel like vomiting (woke up with that feeling too) just thinking about it. 
Please tell me that I'm on the right path.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Chulo said:


> The sex question was to put her on a spotlight, to see the reaction that I needed to see, because I read that cheaters (after commenting the act and its still fresh) will respond with yes because of shame/guilt/suspects from their spouse , and the feeling she has if she don't act they will lose what they have (which is lost already) . Another thing is like I said there was no interest or real intention, I didn't do anything, no touching her. I don't say I love you, I don't hug, I don't reply to any kind of emotions, she managed to give me a kiss today in the morning while holding me before she left to work and she said I love you, and I said bye, good day. I feel like vomiting (woke up with that feeling too) just thinking about it.
> Please tell me that I'm on the right path.


you are on the right path for a divorce 



Chulo said:


> The sex question was to put her on a spotlight, to see the reaction that I needed to see, because I read that cheaters (after commenting the act and its still fresh) will respond with yes because of shame/guilt/suspects from their spouse , and the feeling she has if she don't act they will lose what they have (which is lost already) . Another thing is like I said there was no interest or real intention, I didn't do anything, no touching her. I don't say I love you, I don't hug, I don't reply to any kind of emotions, she managed to give me a kiss today in the morning while holding me before she left to work and she said I love you, and I said bye, good day. I feel like vomiting (woke up with that feeling too) just thinking about it.
> Please tell me that I'm on the right path.


this reminds me of what you see on facebook when they say if you undress a woman and find her bra matches her panties it was she that thought of sex first


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## Kaliber (Apr 10, 2020)

Chulo said:


> The sex question was to put her on a spotlight, to see the reaction that I needed to see, because I read that cheaters (after commenting the act and its still fresh) will respond with yes because of shame/guilt/suspects from their spouse , and the feeling she has if she don't act they will lose what they have (which is lost already) . Another thing is like I said there was no interest or real intention, I didn't do anything, no touching her. I don't say I love you, I don't hug, I don't reply to any kind of emotions, she managed to give me a kiss today in the morning while holding me before she left to work and she said I love you, and I said bye, good day. I feel like vomiting (woke up with that feeling too) just thinking about it.
> Please tell me that I'm on the right path.


@Chulo *you're on the right path!*
How do I know that? Because you're starting to look after you, taking care of you, *upholding your values*, setting up new path in life and getting your crap together!
I personally don't think it's a good idea to know more about her affair, all you need to know is she cheated and committed adultery!
Known more details will really damage you!
*I always advice betrayed spouses to not get the details (the sex details) they usually ignore the advice and strongly regret it later on, the damage that it does lasts for years!*

The best path is to avoid drama and land the first punch, a punch that will make her spin!
You can do that by printing out and putting the divorce papers on the table with your ring and leave takin all your stuff!
She will come home to find the papers and your ring, but not you, the husband who committed to her and stood by her, the husband that she stabbed in the back in the worst possible way!

There she will realise what she has done, what she has lost, a good loyal and a faithful man!
She will try to call you, beg you, don't answer, she will know that she took you for granted!
Don't say anything, and maybe you will be *surprised* that she will bring up the co-worker that she cheated with, because she KNOWS what she has done and why you left!
She will deny anything physical with said co-worker!

She might be vey desperate to get you back, because she is 36, she knows her time to be a mother is ending very very soon, men don't have that age problem, so finding a loyal faithful husband at this age is very difficult, it takes time (years), a time she doesn't have, she will know she F*** up big time!
Maybe her only option is to find a thirsty SIMP to wife her up (even that takes time), she will for ever be miserable, and she knows that!
You my friend will not have any problem finding a woman lots of women, even if you're in your 40s or 50s, *as long as you got you s*** together* (It's way easier than your 20s)!

It's true what they say: *You don't know what you've got until it's gone!*

Be gone, and let her co-worker have her!
He probably will not take her serious, he will not wife her up, she will learn soon that she committed the biggest mistake of her life, losing a good faithful man, who tried every thing to save the marriage, think about it, who will wife up a woman that betrayed and cheated on her husband?!

Here are three books I STRONGLY advice you to read (They are short) and you will have BIG AHAA moments:

The Rational Male - By Rollo Tomassi
No More Mr. Nice Guy: A Proven Plan for Getting What You Want in Love, Sex and Life - By Dr. Robert Glover <- There is a FREE PDF version of this available online, but worth buying
The Unplugged Alpha: The No Bullsh*t Guide To Winning With Women & Life - By Richard Cooper
You will be OK


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Chulo said:


> The sex question was to put her on a spotlight, to see the reaction that I needed to see, because I read that cheaters (after commenting the act and its still fresh) will respond with yes because of shame/guilt/suspects from their spouse , and the feeling she has if she don't act they will lose what they have (which is lost already) . Another thing is like I said there was no interest or real intention, I didn't do anything, no touching her. I don't say I love you, I don't hug, I don't reply to any kind of emotions, she managed to give me a kiss today in the morning while holding me before she left to work and she said I love you, and I said bye, good day. I feel like vomiting (woke up with that feeling too) just thinking about it.
> Please tell me that I'm on the right path.


It looks like your detachment is started to having some effect on your wife. She have noticed this change. You [are] on the right path.

But understand this:

Divorce have LEGAL underpinnings (not a joke). You should NOT just pack up your bags and leave your wife *without* explaining to her what is WRONG in your marriage. This might backfire on you. Your wife has a job and can hire a lawyer to teach you a lesson for abandoning her without telling her anything.

Do not do anything stupid which can be used against you in LEGAL context. Do not allow your wife to destroy your reputation.

You need to BLOW UP her world instead.

I am telling you how to handle this situation correctly (and like a man).

You need to gather evidence from her phone and prepare to CONFRONT her (with divorce papers in your hands). The agenda of your CONFRONTATION is to make it clear to her that you suspect that she is CHEATING and you find this unacceptable. That you are willing to divorce her and she should get ready to pack her bags and leave.

*IF* you think that you cannot access her phone (no problem).

Prepare to prepare to CONFRONT her (with divorce papers in your hands), and tell her to come clean about what is going on between her and her male coworker(s). DEMAND access to her phone in this case.

Her reaction(s) to your CONFRONTATION will give you all the answers you need to help you move forward from this situation.

Go through following thread as a CASE STUDY:









Found inappropriate texts from coworker on wifes phone.


I’ve been married for 3 years and been with my wife for a total of 9 years and love her with everything I have. I’m 37 and she is 33. I’ve always remained faithful and she always has as well as far as I know. She grew up in a divorced home and despises her mother for cheating on her father...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com





This man (the husband) have been in your shoes and was *reluctant* to CONFRONT his wife (his 2nd) for having inappropriate conversations with a male co-worker. ME (and some members) encouraged him to confront his wife, and he accepted our advice. His wife is on her knees begging for reconciliation. He is on the driving seat now and can decide terms for reconciliation. He is GOOD.

So prepare yourself mentally (and legally) to confront your wife *before* you decide what to do next for yourself.

Keep us informed.


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## Kaliber (Apr 10, 2020)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> It looks like your detachment is started to having some effect on your wife. She have noticed this change. You [are] on the right path.
> 
> But understand this:
> 
> ...


@LeGenDary_Man I politely disagree, there is a major difference between the two stories, @OSUguy85 's wife didn't go along but didn't stop it, it's all texts, @Chulo 's wife went physical in person, meeting that person and having an affair!
*Nothing hurts more* to a women than ghosting her!


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## Chulo (6 mo ago)

Kaliber said:


> @Chulo *you're on the right path!*
> How do I know that? Because you're starting to look after you, taking care of you, *upholding your values*, setting up new path in life and getting your crap together!
> I personally don't think it's a good idea to know more about her affair, all you need to know is she cheated and committed adultery!
> Known more details will really damage you!
> ...


I agree with you in all what you said, except the part about being a mother, she can always freeze eggs and try later on. Not that I would care anyway. 
And the spin started to work, like I said this morning I was feeling like vomiting all the time, and she desperately call me a couple of times today (didn't answer) messages if I'm OK and what not. I did respond I feel fine. And ended it there. 

As for divorce, the system here is different, if there's mutual agreement of ending the relationship, I'm free on the spot, there is no reason to prove anything, each one goes is way with what he came into the relationship. only if I choose being separated and not divorcing then the drama begins. 

I don't what drama, no mess, no more bad behavior, lies or anything of that sort, I will have my time to deal with it later on.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Kaliber said:


> @LeGenDary_Man I politely disagree, there is a major difference between the two stories, @OSUguy85 's wife didn't go along but didn't stop it, it's all texts, @Chulo 's wife went physical in person, meeting that person and having an affair!
> *Nothing hurts more* to a women than ghosting her!


Yes, I believe that @Chulo's wife is having PA - I pointed out this to him in a previous post.

There is more to the story of OSUguy85's wife as well. He have hinted that he will investigate his matter further. He has taken the NUKE route.

I understand your perspective. You advised STEALTHY approach to deal with the WW. It works.

My suggestion is to CONFRONT and blow up the world of WW (NUKE approach). This is assuming that the BH wants to stand his ground, and continue to live in Denmark.

MIXED approach to deal with the WW can be adopted as well.

1. Leave the divorce papers (and the wedding ring) with a NOTE about wife's infidelity being the reason for the collapse of marriage, on the bed, and leave the house as well. Then wait for her call.

2. EXPOSE both the WS and the OM in their office and otherwise at a later stage. All should know what happened.

This is for @Chulo to decide in the end.

Pathways are chosen based on the premise that reconciliation is on the cards (or not), or what ASSETS are on the line in case of divorce. A house is owned or is it rental property? Other stuff? Reputation can be at stake as well.

It depends.


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## Kaliber (Apr 10, 2020)

Chulo said:


> except the part about being a mother, she can always freeze eggs and try later on. Not that I would care anyway.


You hear that a lot, but it's not that simple, rarely a man (Except thirsty SIMPs) will marry a women to have children using her frozen eggs!
And women know, having a thirsty SIMP as a husband or using a sperm bank is a life full of misery!
So it's not easy for women, they care a lot about the view of their social circle and family!

I think you are doing great, keep us updated!


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## Chulo (6 mo ago)

Something weird happened, I was home, resting, thinking about my next step, and suddenly my wife enters home, all worried, asking me if I'm OK and that she decided not to go out today.(maybe the special one didn't came to work?), she said they went out without her because she had a meeting until later on today. 
Sadly for her i have plans with a friend going to a bar, and she didn't even ask nothing. 
This is so confusing, I don't understand nothing. Is it all a big fat lie?


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

You are on the right path. Stick to it. Go out with those friends.

what she is noticing is that you are sick of her crappy behavior and now she’s trying to manipulate you back into being her doormat. Don’t do that! And don’t have sex with her! That just more of her manipulation.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Chulo said:


> Something weird happened, I was home, resting, thinking about my next step, and suddenly my wife enters home, all worried, asking me if I'm OK and that she decided not to go out today.(maybe the special one didn't came to work?), she said they went out without her because she had a meeting until later on today.
> Sadly for her i have plans with a friend going to a bar, and she didn't even ask nothing.
> This is so confusing, I don't understand nothing. Is it all a big fat lie?


Your detachment plan is having some effect.

You should go out with your friend. Let her stay at home and imagine what you are up to.


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## Kaliber (Apr 10, 2020)

Chulo said:


> Something weird happened, I was home, resting, thinking about my next step, and suddenly my wife enters home, all worried, asking me if I'm OK and that she decided not to go out today.(maybe the special one didn't came to work?), she said they went out without her because she had a meeting until later on today.
> Sadly for her i have plans with a friend going to a bar, and she didn't even ask nothing.
> This is so confusing, I don't understand nothing. Is it all a big fat lie?


Do not get drunk, I repeat DO NOT GET DRUNK!


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Kaliber said:


> Do not get drunk, I repeat DO NOT GET DRUNK!


Agreed.

@Chulo 

Stay sober and do not do anything regretful. Keep your moral compass intact.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

How was the day Chulo?


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## Chulo (6 mo ago)

Beach123 said:


> How was the day Chulo?


It was really hard, I went out with my friend, after a while she send me a message if I want dinner, I said yes. 
Came back home (not drunk, not even tipsy), she was super kind and asking me about my evening, who I was with, what did we do and so on. 
Then she was hugging me until we went to sleep, nothing happen but she was extremely touchy and she wouldn't leave me. Then when I thought she went to sleep I open to see what people wrote to me here, and she ask me what are you reading about(she never ask me before that). I think that she really starting to feel the discomfort and how disconnected I've become. I'm praud of myself but it was extremely hard for me yesterday, it felt like the good old days. 
Maybe today I won't come back home after work. I haven't decided yet, I don't really have another place to go.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Stay strong. What she is doing right now is called manipulation. Don’t go for her temporary kindness - it’s not genuine given her recent history.
You’d just be agreeing to be her plan B. That’s never good.


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## Kaliber (Apr 10, 2020)

@Chulo you don't need to move out until you are somewhat ready!
What she is doing is called manipulation!
She knows how the good old days were, yet she deprived you from it, and went to this other guys house late at night, maybe with a fried as she said or lied and she was all alone!
A reminder of that awful day when she came home completely drunk at 3am and that guys texting her how he had a really good time and that her skin was ****ing soft:


Chulo said:


> found messages with one of her co-workers saying that he had a really good time and that her skin (hands) was ****ing soft and amazing (she really has amazing skin).
> I straight away confront her with that and she was elusive and show barely any emotion. She said that nothing happened (tho day after she confess being at his house late at night with a friend).


She did tell you she is unhappy with the relationship, that she needs time to understand what is going on with her, and that you should let her go more out and be a* free bird!*
She wants to have her cake and eat it too!
A husband at home and other man in his bed!

Remember the golden rule in relationships: *The one that cares less in a relationship holds all the power!*
You started to care less, now the power is shifting to your favour, as matter of fact you are checking out of the marriage to save your dignity, self respect, honour and pride!

You did nothing wrong, she is the one who did this, who pushed you to your edge, it's on her!
She knows after that text and admitting she was at his house late at night (claiming it was with a friend, like that makes it ok!) was the turning point for you, because after that, your behaviour changed (the 180), she was expecting you to chase her like a dog and pine after her like a SIMP who has no dignity or self respect!
When you valued yourself, and didn't do that, she got the "Oh sh** moment", and started to treat you like the old days!

She will try more things, she will try to initiate sex with you, don't do it, reject her, say that you are tired!

Get the books (e-books) on your phone or tablet if you have one, get the kindle App and then buy the books, after work, go to a park or public library and start reading, come back home late, be cold but polite, after starting to read the books you will have better understanding about what is happening.

Start working on your career, finding another job, doing extra courses that will boost your career, focus on you!

Don't deny yourself happens!
Show her she fu**** around with the wrong dude!


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## Chulo (6 mo ago)

Kaliber said:


> @Chulo you don't need to move out until you are somewhat ready!
> What she is doing is called manipulation!
> She knows how the good old days were, yet she deprived you from it, and went to this other guys house late at night, maybe with a fried as she said or lied and she was all alone!
> A reminder of that awful day when she came home completely drunk at 3am and that guys texting her how he had a really good time and that her skin was ****ing soft:
> ...


How do I know when I'm ready? When I'm extremely tired? Exhausted? Angry? Because I'm there now. 
I thought about doing this conversation today with her, telling her that I need a specific time for a deep conversation or closure. 
I'm really afraid and just from that though I want to vomit. Writing this make me almost wanna cry because I think I know the answer already. I know that I'm pushing the time and it's against me. But there's this 5%of my brain that still think that I can solve it if I have the patience. I know this girl like the palm of my hand, but people change, I became a oneitis, madly in love, caring person and now to broken soul. She wants to be free, that I let her have fun without me, social life without me, letting me go out with other girls and she don't care about it (tho that point I don't belive anymore after last night). She is the dominant person in my life and I understand that now. 
The material that all of you send me/post her I read a couple of times to make sure that it's how I feel. But I guess all the people that where in my shoes had that too, and I need to learn to accept the facts. It's cruel sensation and consuming headache that I will have for a long time. 
I started with the book the rational male.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

All I've read of the thread is the title. 

My first reaction was "_so what exactly is the problem?_"


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## Chulo (6 mo ago)

Laurentium said:


> All I've read of the thread is the title.
> 
> My first reaction was "_so what exactly is the problem?_"


What do you mean? Please explain


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Chulo said:


> What do you mean? Please explain


I mean, if your wife wants to be a free bird, let her be a free bird. 

But, as I confessed, I haven't read the whole thread. So maybe there are other facts I'm missing.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Laurentium said:


> I mean, if your wife wants to be a free bird, let her be a free bird.


She can be a free bird but NOT while married to this man. She seems to be cheating with a male co-worker. The husband (@Chulo) have seen incriminating texts in her phone but have not taken screenshots of them yet (I have told him to collect this evidence).

The husband is doing 180 though, and his wife is concerned. She have realized that her marriage is in trouble. This is the situation in the present.

She will be FAR more alarmed [and shaken] when the husband confronts her with evidence of her cheating, and serve her with divorce papers (I have told him to do this). This is his best shot at bringing his wife back to her senses and to save his marriage on his terms if he wants to.

The husband should PREPARE himself for this confrontation. This should be the defining hour for him and his situation which will help him move forward.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Laurentium said:


> I mean, if your wife wants to be a free bird, let her be a free bird.
> 
> But, as I confessed, I haven't read the whole thread. So maybe there are other facts I'm missing.


You know, that's probably one of the least helpful responses I have ever read on TAM.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Laurentium said:


> All I've read of the thread is the title.
> 
> My first reaction was "_so what exactly is the problem?_"



Basically, OP. He's the problem. No guts, no balls yet to do what he already knows that he needs to do. Instead, he's standing there desperate in his mind, while wringing his hands and sweating trying, but paralyzed from taking charge of the situation, and of his life. Seems that hasn't been able to get there yet.

It is something that should be simple, as painful as that might be to do.
I mean how hard is to just stand in front of a woman, open your mouth and say " here, a copy of the divorce papers. I'm divorcing you, have a nice life".


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Chulo said:


> How do I know when I'm ready? When I'm extremely tired? Exhausted? Angry? Because I'm there now.
> I thought about doing this conversation today with her, telling her that I need a specific time for a deep conversation or closure.
> I'm really afraid and just from that though I want to vomit. Writing this make me almost wanna cry because I think I know the answer already. I know that I'm pushing the time and it's against me. But there's this 5%of my brain that still think that I can solve it if I have the patience. I know this girl like the palm of my hand, but people change, I became a oneitis, madly in love, caring person and now to broken soul. She wants to be free, that I let her have fun without me, social life without me, letting me go out with other girls and she don't care about it (tho that point I don't belive anymore after last night). She is the dominant person in my life and I understand that now.
> The material that all of you send me/post her I read a couple of times to make sure that it's how I feel. But I guess all the people that where in my shoes had that too, and I need to learn to accept the facts. It's cruel sensation and consuming headache that I will have for a long time.
> I started with the book the rational male.


You [are] married to this woman; you have strong feelings for her = completely understandable.
How you are feeling in the present = completely understandable.
*But* your marriage is virtually shattered. Your wife is cheating on you (or you suspect this to be the case).
You need to PREPARE to confront her in order to move forward from this situation.

You will be READY to confront your wife [after] doing following:

*1. Take screenshots of the incriminating texts from your wife's phone and transfer them to your phone. *

You *will need* this evidence to *confront* your wife. She will NOT come clean to you otherwise. She will try to deny and pin this whole situation on you instead. *But* she *cannot refute* incriminating evidence when it is thrown at her face (by you).

*2. Obtain a copy of divorce papers, fill them, and sign them. *

Put these papers in front of your wife *when* you *confront* her. These will produce the desired SHOCK EFFECT on her. She will realize where things are heading for her and her marriage at this stage.

*These measures will make your confrontation meaningful and impactful.*

You need to see HOW she REACTS to you in this confrontation. 

- - - - -

She is remorseful, comes clean, and offers to reconcile on your terms? *GOOD *

_Tell her to cut all manner of contact with her Affair Partner (and) apply for another job._

_If her Affair Partner is married or have a Girl Friend then inform this woman._

*OR*

She does not care? *NO PROBLEM*

_*Tell her to pack her stuff and leave.*

Warn her that you are willing to EXPOSE her and her Affair Partner with incriminating evidence on hand._

- - - - -

You should be willing to BLOW UP her world for hurting you and destroying this marriage (NUKE OPTION).

Other members have given you valuable pointers as well. You have ample information to draw from.

Now do what you must.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

@LeGenDary_Man not need for all of that. What she said below should be enough for any man that have dignity and self respect to just immediately walk out of the marriage without looking back


QUOTE="Chulo, post: 20568004, member: 356093"]
she finally got to say that she is unhappy with our relationship, that she needs time to understand what is going on with her, and that I should let her go more out and be a free bird as she always was
[/QUOTE]


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

MattMatt said:


> You know, that's probably one of the least helpful responses I have ever read on TAM.


Do you think? I say, if she wants to go, let her go. And when I say go, I mean exit the marriage. 
Especially if no children.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Rob_1 said:


> @LeGenDary_Man not need for all of that. What she said below should be enough for any man that have dignity and self respect to just immediately walk out of the marriage without looking back
> 
> 
> 
> ...


She told him that she loves him, recently. She seems to be in panic phase, but nothing is certain at this stage.

WE will learn much when the wife is confronted.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Once this kind of bs starts with a woman, it never gets better. Never. It ALWAYS just gets worse. There’s no fixing a woman that’s fell out of love. 
chasing them pushes them even further away. 
being nice to them gets you meanness in return.
The only hope of fixing this kind of crap is to blow up their fantasy world and move on. 

She’s wants to be a “free bird” is nothing more than saying she wants to f other dudes with zero consequences.

Laurentium gave the correct advice. Once they say that— there’s no thinking, debating, using logic…. You just kick them to the curb and move on.
His advice was concise. And spot on.


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## Chulo (6 mo ago)

Hey all, sorry that I'm not acting just on emotions of sadness and angry, because that how i find myself in the worst place and I don't make sense of anything. I will get emotional and that will look even more weak and lame, you all said man up, I agree, it's a working process, don't want to sound like I'm begging or anything of that matter. If I want to approach the divorce in the best way, I need to do this with a calm headed, focus and with the correct set of mind and plan. Plan on what to do with my life from here, nobody is going to help me after this. Now I don't want to wasted all my money on rent/living here by myself (extremely expensive-not talking about moving my **** and buying things ) , and leaving her will conclude in leaving this country and losing all that I have achieved on the last 5 years here. Hammering me down does help, but I'm simply sharing my felling and thoughts here so I can build up for this. Like I said at the beginning, I don't know how to give up, never did. The mind is the most powerful weapon we have, and my worst enemy, and to me it's really hard to process this. I grew up in a broken family from every angle posible(death parent, family disowned me and more sadness that I won't write here) building a family was one of my goals, yes I know this one probably won't happen with her like I imagined , but I put everything into this, EVERYTHING. (I know some of you will say that is the problem, and you right, still we are humans that want to be loved, cared and we learn from our mistakes).


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Your whole brain isn’t your worst enemy, just your amygdala. Forget the emotions and do what is logical. Setting her free is logical.
Yes, you’re gonna go backward financially, but you’ll be way ahead in the long run by getting off the wretched nag you’re on now and finding a nice philly to start over with.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

We understand. If at the moment is not possible to physically remove yourself from her, at least you need to convey to her that the marriage is over, and that you will be together in the same dwelling, but separated until you can move. As hard as that might be, you need to find the fortitude within yourself to be able to do it. This will send her the correct message. You need to understand that if this does not shocks her, then you already have your answer. The sooner you do this the less anguish and stress from the tension when together. Please, dude, stop sleeping with her. cut her out completely, because IF what you want is to stay with her (I don't know why, but it's your life) you showing her that you have move on would be the fastest, best approach to shock her back, IF that's what she also wants (but I doubt it), most likely she wants somebody else and you're just plan B temporarily.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

She knows she has f’d up and is panicking that her fail safe is not responding like he should.

If what went on last night hasn’t happened for a long time, I wouldn’t read to much into it. It is a show to bring you back in line.

The only thing you have to tell her is this. She can be free and be who ever she wants too, it just won’t be as your wife.

Best wishes.


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## Chulo (6 mo ago)

Yesterday at night we had an opening conversation about our life and marriage, I did the hardest thing and told her that I'm going to leave. 
She broke down, told me that she loved me, that she didn't do anything wrong, that she is just confused about herself and about our happiness in marriage and that she still need more time to think. 
I responde to that she can't put me in 2 place, that it's crazy to think that I would stay like this. I told her that I really want her happiness even if she doesn't want to be with me. 
She said that she wants to be with me, that she is just having a really hard time. To that I responded that she is making me feel unwanted, and that all the time that I have been around for her, helping, giving the best that a husband can do for his wife, letting her have space, feeling wanted and attracted, making love and showing her that she is the most beautiful woman that I have ever know, writing poetry about our love and trying my hardest to make her life simply happy. 
She couldn't stop crying, saying that she know that, and she is well aware of everything that I do for her. She hates herself for hurting me like this, that she just want to understand. She try to hug me, make love to me and to all I said no. 
I said a lot of other thing about our relationship, that she maybe wanting to be with someone else, clean slate without any previous emotions or understanding of what happen to her, that this would make her happy because new people in our life is better, because they don't know you, no judgment, simply clean slate. 
On the other hand, me, the loyal and stupid guy who stand right next to her in the most difficult time in her life make her miserable. I don't deserve this. 
She try to speak to me now but I ignored her. She try to hug and I move away. I'm going to work now and she is going to her team party. I hope she has fun there. 
I think there's a lot going on in my mind, but I put my foot down, finally.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Chulo said:


> Yesterday at night we had an opening conversation about our life and marriage, I did the hardest thing and told her that I'm going to leave.
> She broke down, told me that she loved me, that she didn't do anything wrong, that she is just confused about herself and about our happiness in marriage and that she still need more time to think.
> I responde to that she can't put me in 2 place, that it's crazy to think that I would stay like this. I told her that I really want her happiness even if she doesn't want to be with me.
> She said that she wants to be with me, that she is just having a really hard time. To that I responded that she is making me feel unwanted, and that all the time that I have been around for her, helping, giving the best that a husband can do for his wife, letting her have space, feeling wanted and attracted, making love and showing her that she is the most beautiful woman that I have ever know, writing poetry about our love and trying my hardest to make her life simply happy.
> ...


 in this post you show that you did and said all the things you needed to say , the only thing I say 
is if you belive and if what you said to her you need to let her speak if what she does not say what you need to get for an improvment in both your relationship get out and don't give to long hurting eachother , 
it sems to me you love this woman but she is more friends with you than lover , i think she likes you for all the things you said above but you don't have that look she needs I know all the experts say a woman needs or looks for different things than men before they feel love well I still think women need a man that looks sexy to them to be fully turned on.
the same experts say men are more into image and say this is why men are more open to porn but I think most of this is the same for both sex just women are told to look for what is said to be a good man , and boys are not told the same thing .
if women were not into the image that there would not be any such thing as male sex semble


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Chulo said:


> Yesterday at night we had an opening conversation about our life and marriage, I did the hardest thing and told her that I'm going to leave.
> She broke down, told me that she loved me, that she didn't do anything wrong, that she is just confused about herself and about our happiness in marriage and that she still need more time to think.
> I responde to that she can't put me in 2 place, that it's crazy to think that I would stay like this. I told her that I really want her happiness even if she doesn't want to be with me.
> She said that she wants to be with me, that she is just having a really hard time. To that I responded that she is making me feel unwanted, and that all the time that I have been around for her, helping, giving the best that a husband can do for his wife, letting her have space, feeling wanted and attracted, making love and showing her that she is the most beautiful woman that I have ever know, writing poetry about our love and trying my hardest to make her life simply happy.
> ...


You did the right thing to reject her advances. Good.

But you are not addressing the core issue in your marriage. You have not collected evidence of her cheating and confronted her with it. You continue to waste valuable time.

She might delete those texts - what will you do in this case?

Marriage is a commitment through THICK and THIN. You do not just walk away from it in THIN phase *until* you are 100% sure that it cannot be saved.

Your wife claims that she have done nothing wrong? This was the time when you could throw collected evidence on her face and tell her to EXPLAIN.

You might assume that walking away from this marriage will be great for you *but* there is no guarantee that the NEXT woman in your life will NOT cheat on you *unless* you LEARN to establish boundaries and secure your marriage.

Do not assume that only Danish women will cheat. This happens in every country around the world. Yes, women are more family-oriented in some countries. But *HOW* a man handles his relationship, actually matters.

You should try your best to *STOP the Affair* in its tracks. You should NOT put up with *this disrespect* while you are married to this woman.

1. 180 treatment
2. Confrontation with evidence
3. Presenting divorce papers

These measures are adopted to SHOCK the wayward wife and disperse the FOG she claims to be in. This is the agenda.

Take my advice seriously, bro. If you desire a good marriage in your life.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Chulo said:


> I'm going to work now and she is going to her team party. I hope she has fun there.


LOL. Sorry, I'm not laughing at you but at her BS crying act. After all that crying she's getting ready to go party. Doesn't that tells you everything? 

@Chulo, dude, one more time, no more talks, no more sleeping in the same bed, no more hugs. Ghost her. Do the grey rock, even if you two are in the same house. Stop letting your emotions rule your behavior towards her. Hit her with divorce papers, even if they're not the official ones. Just download a copy put your name and her name and give it to her. All you have to say is: "official papers will be serve to you by my solicitor", then just walk away. No talk, no explanations.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Chulo said:


> Hey all, sorry that I'm not acting just on emotions of sadness and angry, because that how i find myself in the worst place and I don't make sense of anything. I will get emotional and that will look even more weak and lame, you all said man up, I agree, it's a working process, don't want to sound like I'm begging or anything of that matter. If I want to approach the divorce in the best way, I need to do this with a calm headed, focus and with the correct set of mind and plan. Plan on what to do with my life from here, nobody is going to help me after this. Now I don't want to wasted all my money on rent/living here by myself (extremely expensive-not talking about moving my **** and buying things ) , and leaving her will conclude in leaving this country and losing all that I have achieved on the last 5 years here. Hammering me down does help, but I'm simply sharing my felling and thoughts here so I can build up for this. Like I said at the beginning, I don't know how to give up, never did. The mind is the most powerful weapon we have, and my worst enemy, and to me it's really hard to process this. I grew up in a broken family from every angle posible(death parent, family disowned me and more sadness that I won't write here) building a family was one of my goals, yes I know this one probably won't happen with her like I imagined , but I put everything into this, EVERYTHING. (I know some of you will say that is the problem, and you right, still we are humans that want to be loved, cared and we learn from our mistakes).


I would argue that refusing to quit on someone who has already quit on you means you are quitting on yourself.

Never set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Rob_1 said:


> LOL. Sorry, I'm not laughing at you but at her BS crying act. After all that crying she's getting ready to go party. Doesn't that tells you everything?
> 
> @Chulo, dude, one more time, no more talks, no more sleeping in the same bed, no more hugs. Ghost her. Do the grey rock, even if you two are in the same house. Stop letting your emotions rule your behavior towards her. Hit her with divorce papers, even if they're not the official ones. Just download a copy put your name and her name and give it to her. All you have to say is: "official papers will be serve to you by my solicitor", then just walk away. No talk, no explanations.


I disagree.

The core issue in this marriage is "infidelity." So where is the confrontation on this count?

The husband should gather evidence and confront his wife on this CORE ISSUE.

Simply doing 180 will not work in this case. His wife will get the impression that her husband is a JERK because she have told him that "she have done nothing wrong."

@Chulo

Your wife will start to move away from you if you do not tell her what the problem is. This is what you should FEAR.

She still have feelings for you, so you do what I have told you. 

You are wasting your time otherwise.


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## Chulo (6 mo ago)

Hi all. 
She just texted me that she want it to be over. The Cruelty is tremendous. 
I'm completely broken. 
That it. No more play around or second chance. 
I will updated. 
Thanks 🙏


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> I disagree.
> 
> The core issue in this marriage is "infidelity." So where is the confrontation on this count?
> 
> ...



My opinion is that it shouldn't matter the who, when, why, how many times, where. It only matters that she did. Nothing else. At that moment marriage is over. No questions asked, nor needed. But, yes, I would let her know that I know that she cheated, and that's why I'm divorcing her.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Chulo said:


> Hi all.
> She just texted me that she want it to be over. The Cruelty is tremendous.
> I'm completely broken.
> That it. No more play around or second chance.
> ...



I'm sorry for your pain, but this is almost always the end result. We have been telling you this since your first post. Normally the "hopium" is what keeps people in this terrible, painful loop. Move forward by ghosting her as I previously said.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Rob_1 said:


> My opinion is that it shouldn't matter the who, when, why, how, many times, where. It only matters that she did. Nothing else. At that moment marriage is over. No questions asked, nor needed. But, yes, I would let her know that I know that she cheated, and that's why I'm divorcing her.


Yes, the husband [should] tell the wife that what the problem is.

The husband should not implement 180 *without* telling her what the problem is. The wife will assume that her husband is being a JERK in this case. And this is exactly what happened in this case.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Chulo said:


> Hi all.
> She just texted me that she want it to be over. The Cruelty is tremendous.
> I'm completely broken.
> That it. No more play around or second chance.
> ...


Well, you were too late to confront her "on the issue of infidelity," and your 180 gave her the impression that you are no longer interested in her and making your marriage work. She assumed that you are in the wrong. She literally told that she have done nothing wrong on the other hand.

I hope that you will learn something from this saga.

*Lesson # 1:* When a marriage is in trouble, you will have NOT unlimited time to FIX it.

*Lesson # 2:* 180 may or may not work. You might have to try other options.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Chulo said:


> Hi all.
> She just texted me that she want it to be over. The Cruelty is tremendous.
> I'm completely broken.
> That it. No more play around or second chance.
> ...


Embrace the fact you're better off. You can do it.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

She said she did nothing wrong???!!!???
Wtf!!!!!

yeah she turned the tears simply to keep you as her lap dog while she chased other men.

she then went out partying.
She then got word from her new squeeze that he’d take hat off your hands and you u got the “I want it to be over” messsge…

I’m sorry. Ditch the witch. Lots of other women out there.


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## Killi (May 12, 2021)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> Yes, the husband [should] tell the wife that what the problem is.
> 
> The husband should not implement 180 *without* telling her what the problem is. The wife will assume that her husband is being a JERK in this case. And this is exactly what happened in this case.


IMO What she thinks doesn't matter, the 180 is about taking control of your own life not controlling the opinions of others.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Evinrude58 said:


> She said she did nothing wrong???!!!???
> Wtf!!!!!
> 
> yeah she turned the tears simply to keep you as her lap dog while she chased other men.
> ...


No, this is not how it happened.









Wife wants to be a free bird again


All I've read of the thread is the title. My first reaction was "so what exactly is the problem?" What do you mean? Please explain




www.talkaboutmarriage.com





The couple had another session of useless argument - this is all.

Why the husband did not tell her what was wrong? Why he did not take snapshots of those texts and throw them on her face when she told him she have done nothing wrong? 

The husband started doing 180 *without *telling her what the problem was.

I told this guy to collect evidence of her infidelity and confront her with it. *He didn't.*

This is what he told her:

_"I said a lot of other thing about our relationship, that she maybe wanting to be with someone else, clean slate without any previous emotions or understanding of what happen to her, that this would make her happy because new people in our life is better, because they don't know you, no judgment, simply clean slate."_

And then GHOSTED her:

_She try to speak to me now but I ignored her. She try to hug and I move away. I'm going to work now and she is going to her team party. I hope she has fun there. _

The wife assumed that her husband is no longer interested in her and her marriage.

She DROPPED him instead.

I am not surprised.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Killi said:


> IMO What she thinks doesn't matter, the 180 is about taking control of your own life not controlling the opinions of others.


It matters, bro.

When your wife does something wrong, you confront her over it. This is common sense.

The 180 is implemented when the wife is *not *sorry for "her wrongs."


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## Chulo (6 mo ago)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> No, this is not how it happened.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry you're are mistaken, I did confronted her when I found the messages, she denied and said that is just some bulshit from the office. 
Another thing, I ghosted her since Sunday. She tried various time to get in my mind until this morning. I put her in a place and set her free and myself. 
Like I said, I told her that I want to leave.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

i am sorry you are feeling so bad but happy you are now done with her walk away the next few weeks you will feel like crap and even want to do anwthing to win her back , then you will start to see that she had you wrapped around her finger then you take your time and be open to meeting good women as they are not all like that


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Chulo said:


> Sorry you're are mistaken, I did confronted her when I found the messages, she denied and said that is just some bulshit from the office.
> Another thing, I ghosted her since Sunday. She tried various time to get in my mind until this morning. I put her in a place and set her free and myself.
> Like I said, I told her that I want to leave.


You are changing your statement now. This is your update:









Wife wants to be a free bird again


All I've read of the thread is the title. My first reaction was "so what exactly is the problem?" What do you mean? Please explain




www.talkaboutmarriage.com





Where are the details of your confrontation in this update?

I see nothing of the sort in it.

I told you to take screenshots of her messages and use them in your confrontation. You did not do this.

Your GHOSTING attitude pushed her away. You should have listened to her what she wanted to tell you. You didn't. This is no way to treat a wife in confrontational scenario. She will be pissed.

Did you read other threads here and noticed how other men [in your situation] have handled this problem? I think not.

Sorry, bro. I understand that you are in deep pain. But I am also of the view that you did not handle this problem "correctly." 

Anyways.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> The 180 is implemented when the wife is *not *sorry for "her wrongs."


The 180 is for you to start detaching from your partner, "wrongs or not wrongs". 

Sorry, but If I found that my partner cheated on me, I wouldn't care if the she's "sorry" or not.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> You are changing your statement now. This is your update:



This is what he wrote in his original OP:



Chulo said:


> I found messages with one of her co-workers saying that he had a really good time and that her skin (hands) was ****ing soft and amazing (she really has amazing skin).
> *I straight away confront her with that *and she was elusive and show barely any emotion. She said that nothing happened (tho day after she confess being at his house late at night with a friend).


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Rob_1 said:


> The 180 is for you to start detaching from your partner, "wrongs or not wrongs".
> 
> Sorry, but If I found that my partner cheated on me, I wouldn't care if the she's "sorry" or not.


I understand what 180 is, and how it should be implemented.

You will not tell her what is wrong then? You will simply pack your bags and leave? Well, this is your mindset. I respect it. But this does not solve anything. The only outcome is you walked away from the marriage.


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## Chulo (6 mo ago)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> I understand what 180 is, and how it should be implemented.
> 
> You will not tell her what is wrong then? You will simply pack your bags and leave? Well, this is your mindset. I respect it. But this does not solve anything. The only outcome is you walked away from the marriage.


I did last night, I just didn't write every single detail, it's really painful. Understand that. 
Besides, you're are right in some ways, but I don't react like that. Even if people are horrible. 
I will learn from my mistakes and learn to live with all this experience. No need to nuke or know all the details, what will it bring to me? More lies? Denial? More angry thoughs? Will that help me in anyway? 
No, just more misery, more pain. I can get out and that what I need for myself. So why trying to understand/get information about someone that didn't want to be with me?


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Rob_1 said:


> This is what he wrote in his original OP:


OK.

Now let us do further recap.



Chulo said:


> Last Friday I got drunk (11 year that didn't happen- not an alcoholic, just my stomach doesn't like alcohol), and she arrive completely drunk at 3am. I felt something was off and decided to do something that I never done and that was seeing her phone.
> I found messages with one of her co-workers saying that he had a really good time and that her skin (hands) was ****ing soft and amazing (she really has amazing skin).
> I straight away confront her with that and she was elusive and show barely any emotion. She said that nothing happened (tho day after she confess being at his house late at night with a friend).
> My self esteem right now is crushed completely, and I try to get more information about what is going on with her but I get even more depressed because she get mad and angry and blame me for pressing her and converting this into more distance between us.
> I started to ask difficult questions like if she needs some time off or if she want to have an open relationship, or just simply if she want to divorce. To all she said no.


1. The husband did not check her phone again. He did not attempt to collect further evidence.

2. When the wife admitted that she was at his house, the husband should have put his foot down at this stage, and tell her that this nonsense has to stop or he will divorce.

Did he? *NO*

He started doing 180 instead. This led to another confrontation:









Wife wants to be a free bird again


All I've read of the thread is the title. My first reaction was "so what exactly is the problem?" What do you mean? Please explain




www.talkaboutmarriage.com





I knew this will happen.

I repeatedly told him to PREPARE to confront her again.

Did he? *NO*

She was crying and wanted to talk to him but he did not listen to her.

The outcome is here.

She DROPPED him.

Some of the men here do not really understand how to put your foot down when the wife is doing something wrong.

Wrong advice leads to "destruction."

When a woman wants to tell you something; LISTEN to her.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> ou will not tell her what is wrong then?


LeGenD, we are not communicating affectively here, I already told you that I would first say the reason why. I would not give a wayward partner the satisfaction to deluge herself with thoughts that would make her create whatever scenario she would want to create to justify herself. No, my Cherie.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> I knew this will happen.
> 
> I repeatedly told him to PREPARE to confront her again.
> 
> Did he? *NO*



We all did tell him from the very beginnings . He was having a hard time to act (too emotional). Live and learn.


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## Imjustaslostasyou (Apr 22, 2020)

Chulo said:


> Me (36) and my wife (36)are married for almost 8 years, last year my wife lost her mother and I was very supportive. I try to show her as much love as possible and giving her free space so she can deal with her emotions. Just to mention that in the time of her mother being treated for cancer and afterwards I was alone in my house for almost 8 months, while she was at her origin country.
> After a while she got accepted into a new job and I was tremendously happy for her, knowing that this will help her to move forward with her life and feel good again.
> 
> My problem began when recently she started to hang out more then usual with co-workers and social events until late at night.
> ...


 Dump her asap life is to short to put up with a cheater. consider it 8 years of practice. get out now.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Chulo said:


> I did last night, I just didn't write every single detail, it's really painful. Understand that.
> Besides, you're are right in some ways, but I don't react like that. Even if people are horrible.
> I will learn from my mistakes and learn to live with all this experience. No need to nuke or know all the details, what will it bring to me? More lies? Denial? More angry thoughs? Will that help me in anyway?
> No, just more misery, more pain. I can get out and that what I need for myself. So why trying to understand/get information about someone that didn't want to be with me?


I understand, bro.

You are a GOOD MAN (soft and caring).

Unfortunately for you, you found yourself in a situation which warranted NUKE response. But you were not CUT UP for this strategy.

You were TOO SOFT on your wife. When she admitted that she was at his house, this was the time for you to put your foot down and tell her to NOT socialize with her co-workers after office hours, or you will pack her stuff and put them in the garage for her to collect. *But* your reactions were WEAK and you allowed her to socialize with her co-workers.

You chose to do 180 in this situation _*but *_understand this: 180 is a "gamble" much like any other measure to SHOCK your wife. There is no guarantee that 180 will help FIX a marriage in bad phase.

Some men will boast that 180 gives you power in your relationship; NO, not necessarily. Different women will react to 180 in different ways. I know this from experience.

-----

My wife is well-educated and a working lady (good job and career). She is also "mentally tough."

I am happily married. But every marriage have its fair share of conflicts. I recall a conflict in which I chose to sleep in another bedroom for some days and implemented 180 in the process. Believe me! My wife was "CHILL." I was SHOCKED, and I had to go back to her to make amends eventually. 😬

She taught me a lesson instead.

Lesson? 180 can be a waste of time with some women in case of conflict.

-----

I am very sorry for your situation and loss. I wanted to help.

Take your time to recollect yourself and provide an update when you are in a better frame of mind.



Imjustaslostasyou said:


> Dump her asap life is to short to put up with a cheater. consider it 8 years of practice. get out now.


You are late. She dumped this (poor) guy.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> I understand, bro.
> 
> You are a GOOD MAN (soft and caring).
> 
> ...


Your synopsis is way off.

the woman has texts of her and another guy and was known to have spent the night with him.
The only thing inv he did wrong was not see an attorney and boot her on the spot.
Few men can be so decisive.

So he posted here, listened, and instead of allowing his gaslighting wife to blow smoke up his ass about what she was doing and further humiliate him and abuse him, he has rightly told her to go f herself abd us divorcing her.

He gave her every opportunity to stop cheating and with things out, she chose instead to continue to party it up with her affair partner.

Very few people get this right. Some men wouid fall for her boo hoos and allow her to keep partying it up with her new guy. 
OP has gotten himself out of this. He’s done good.
Kudos to him for not tolerating the intolerable and getting out.

There is zero need to pretend that he somehow could have fixed this if he’d handled things differently. He is not at fault for his wife being a cheater. He could not have fixed this. Only she could. She showed zero inclination to do so. Good riddance. Who dumped who has no bearing whatsoever.


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## Chulo (6 mo ago)

Evinrude58 said:


> Your synopsis is way off.
> 
> the woman has texts of her and another guy and was known to have spent the night with him.
> The only thing inv he did wrong was not see an attorney and boot her on the spot.
> ...


Thanks for your kind words, I really did try my best for the last couple of months to fix whatever was broken between us, but you need 2 for tango.
I didn't get the respond from her, I keep pushing until the moment that I broke down and look at her phone, there I knew that this is more then just "I'm having trouble with myself", this was the first authentic red flag for me, because sometimes we have a really rough time in our life. (like me, now)
Guys always hit on girls, specially when they see that she is vulnerable (and she is because of many things), and they know they can manipulate her into believing that they are special, more than what she has(like I said this guy just broke up with his girlfriend from long distance-thos looking for a rebound).
Yes, you're completely right, like I said I can't just give up and blow the world because some dude hit on my girl, maybe I should have waited a bit more and collect data-defenetly, absolutely, learn that now.
But we go back to the basis, she probably thought about separation long ago, then she started to notice into other guys and see if she is into them. Get her self-esteem high again, and push to see what will happen when she open that door.
Maybe he will dump her in 2 months, maybe they will have kids and be in love forever (he's loaded with money-not like me) maybe in two months she will start calling me and asking for forgiveness and what not. Maybe tonight she will do that to. I don't know. All I know that I'm seriously hurt and need your support.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

No, you should not have waited for more data. Yes, you could’ve looked and gotten her red handed. Who cares? She said she wanted out. 
You didn’t go berserk over a guy hitting on your wife. Your wife has texts of him telling her how soft her skin was after she SPENT THE NIGHT with him. On top of everything else.
You have more than enough to wisely choose to put her down the road. Nothing less will give you any respite from the pain she’s inflicted and continues to inflict.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Evinrude58 said:


> Your synopsis is way off.
> 
> the woman has texts of her and another guy and was known to have spent the night with him.
> The only thing inv he did wrong was not see an attorney and boot her on the spot.
> Few men can be so decisive.


And what did I tell him?

_"You were TOO SOFT on your wife. When she admitted that she was at his house, this was the time for you to put your foot down and tell her to NOT socialize with her co-workers after office hours, or you will pack her stuff and put them in the garage for her to collect. *But* your reactions were WEAK and you allowed her to socialize with her co-workers."_

Same point that you made - worded differently.

WE are in agreement on this one.



Evinrude58 said:


> So he posted here, listened, and instead of allowing his gaslighting wife to blow smoke up his ass about what she was doing and further humiliate him and abuse him, he has rightly told her to go f herself abd us divorcing her.
> 
> He gave her every opportunity to stop cheating and with things out, she chose instead to continue to party it up with her affair partner.
> 
> ...


The husband in this case got dumped for his 180 and ghosting.

Some women do not respond well to 180. They respond better to "meaningful arguments and actions." This is important to understand. 

When infidelity is going on, the wife would showcase "conflicted frame of mind." In this situation, decisive actions are important and timing is of the essence. 180 = waste of time.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I agree the 180 was a waste of time as far as getting his wife back, but that’s not what it’s for. It’s to get emotionally free of a oerson so you can think more clearly and make better decisions. It seems helpful for that in his case.

just my opinion. Yeah, I agree it was too soft of a response to the texts, spending the night with the guy, and party plans.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Once again, the 180 is not a tool for getting a partner back. It's as above explained by @Evinrude58 To be able to emotionally detach so you can have a clear mind and moving forward with your life. It is not for emotionally manipulations geared towards getting your partner back.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Rob_1 said:


> Once again, the 180 is not a tool for getting a partner back. It's as above explained by @Evinrude58 To be able to emotionally detach so you can have a clear mind and moving forward with your life. It is not for emotionally manipulations geared towards getting your partner back.


Yes.

180 is helpful when 'separation' is the goal.

180 can backfire when 'reconciliation' is the goal.

The husband [in question] was wasting his time with 180.

My advice is in following post:









Wife wants to be a free bird again


All I've read of the thread is the title. My first reaction was "so what exactly is the problem?" What do you mean? Please explain




www.talkaboutmarriage.com





The husband [in question] did not work on this plan to the letter. 

He had another argument with his wife and pushed her away. The husband should provide details in this regard.

These arguments are pointless otherwise.


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## mickybill (Nov 29, 2016)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> And what did I tell him?
> 
> _"You were TOO SOFT on your wife. When she admitted that she was at his house, this was the time for you to put your foot down and tell her to NOT socialize with her co-workers after office hours, or you will pack her stuff and put them in the garage for her to collect. *But* your reactions were WEAK and you allowed her to socialize with her co-workers."_
> 
> ...



Ok, you were right and the OP was wrong... 
The wife checked out already, probably months ago when she was using her soft hands on the OM.There was no other outcome than her leaving no matter what he did. Whatever he did at this point was kabuki theatre
Will she be back? Maybe after the OM realizes she is better as a side piece than a full time partner, after she is a cheater...
The OP is going thru hell right now, but it will get better. Not for a while though.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

mickybill said:


> Ok, you were right and the OP was wrong...
> The wife checked out already, probably months ago when she was using her soft hands on the OM.There was no other outcome than her leaving no matter what he did. Whatever he did at this point was kabuki theatre
> Will she be back? Maybe after the OM realizes she is better as a side piece than a full time partner, after she is a cheater...
> The OP is going thru hell right now, but it will get better. Not for a while though.


Bud, I wanted to HELP.

The husband was complaining that he have invested so much in his marriage and he cannot afford separation. Go through this thread and you will see these statements. I felt that he is OPEN to reconciliation.

But I will ask next time: when a husband comes to this forum and discloses his situation in "Coping with Infidelity" section, I should ask him some questions (*IF* he has not disclosed much).

He knows about the OM or not?
He wants to try reconciliation or not?

These are important considerations.

Different members will read the same situation differently and provide different suggestions accordingly. This can confuse a husband and he might try something which might backfire on him.

When a marriage is in trouble due to infidelity (or another serious problem) but 'reconciliation' is on the cards then timely (but decisive) decisions can make tremendous difference. All women are not the same either. Different women will react to a developing situation at home in different ways. Their mindset will count. The husband should know better TBH.

The wife [in question] told her husband that she does not wants to leave him - REPEATEDLY. _*But*_ he made her believe that it is OK for her to leave him.

_"I started to ask difficult questions like if she needs some time off or if she want to have an open relationship, or just simply if she want to divorce. To all she said no." _

+

_"Yesterday at night we had an opening conversation about our life and marriage, I did the hardest thing and told her that I'm going to leave." _

+

_"I responde to that she can't put me in 2 place, that it's crazy to think that I would stay like this. I told her that I really want her happiness even if she doesn't want to be with me. 
She said that she wants to be with me, that she is just having a really hard time. To that I responded that she is making me feel unwanted, and that all the time that I have been around for her, helping, giving the best that a husband can do for his wife, letting her have space, feeling wanted and attracted, making love and showing her that she is the most beautiful woman that I have ever know, writing poetry about our love and trying my hardest to make her life simply happy. 
She couldn't stop crying, saying that she know that, and she is well aware of everything that I do for her. She hates herself for hurting me like this, that she just want to understand. She try to hug me, make love to me and to all I said no."_

+

_"I said a lot of other thing about our relationship, that she maybe wanting to be with someone else, clean slate without any previous emotions or understanding of what happen to her, that this would make her happy because new people in our life is better, because they don't know you, no judgment, simply clean slate."_

And then this:

_She try to speak to me now but I ignored her. She try to hug and I move away. I'm going to work now and she is going to her team party. I hope she has fun there. _

Rejecting her advances in this situation = FINE.

*But* this is NOT the same as putting your foot down and telling your wife to STOP interacting with the OM and/or attend parties with her co-workers after office hours. This is more like giving the wife the permission to do whatever she wants to do, and you want to EXIT.

Perhaps this is what the husband wanted to do? Leave his wife?

Emphasis on this part.* HOW *you confront your wayward wife and* WHAT* you say to her - everything counts. Because she will be CONFLICTED herself.

This was my suggestion:









Wife wants to be a free bird again


All I've read of the thread is the title. My first reaction was "so what exactly is the problem?" What do you mean? Please explain




www.talkaboutmarriage.com





The husband wasted too much time unfortunately. He wasn't able to produce much SHOCK EFFECT on his wife when she reacted to his 180.

Latest disclose from the husband is in following post:









Wife wants to be a free bird again


Me (36) and my wife (36)are married for almost 8 years, last year my wife lost her mother and I was very supportive. I try to show her as much love as possible and giving her free space so she can deal with her emotions. Just to mention that in the time of her mother being treated for cancer and...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com





So the husband knows much about this co-worker? This should have been disclosed earlier in fact.

I would have told the husband to OUT him in his office ASAP.

I would have also told the husband to tell his wife that this man will NOT stick around but use her as a rebound and dump her [after] you are gone. Is this the situation she wants to be in?

Difference in your INTENT and approach to a situation... MATTERS.

You should check the thread of member (Vintage Retro); this man disclosed so much and planned his moves ahead. He did not waste his time. His approach to confrontation was so meticulous and such an eye-opener. People were cheering for him.

It is important for a man to be STRONG and DECISIVE. Women can see this and respect a man having these qualities.

There is more content to analyze.

_"Just to mention that in the time of her mother being treated for cancer and afterwards I was alone in my house for almost 8 months, while she was at her origin country." _

This was a MISTAKE. 8 months is too much to be separate from each other.

_"My problem began when recently she started to hang out more then usual with co-workers and social events until late at night.
In my position I felt deeply guilty and lonely, but I didn't want to raise those issues because I felt that the time wasn't right." _

Another MISTAKE.

You do *NOT* give your wife too much TIME and SPACE to be away from you. It is possible for the wife to DETACH from you with this much freedom and liberty given to her, particularly when she is in a vulnerable frame-of-mind. Another man can take advantage of this situation.

These are important lessons.


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## David60525 (Oct 5, 2021)

Chulo said:


> Me (36) and my wife (36)are married for almost 8 years, last year my wife lost her mother and I was very supportive. I try to show her as much love as possible and giving her free space so she can deal with her emotions. Just to mention that in the time of her mother being treated for cancer and afterwards I was alone in my house for almost 8 months, while she was at her origin country.
> After a while she got accepted into a new job and I was tremendously happy for her, knowing that this will help her to move forward with her life and feel good again.
> 
> My problem began when recently she started to hang out more then usual with co-workers and social events until late at night.
> ...


Leave, protect your finances. Let her go 
Take the YouTube red pill


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## colingrant (Nov 6, 2017)

Chulo said:


> Sorry you're are mistaken, I did confronted her when I found the messages, she denied and said that is just some bulshit from the office.
> Another thing, I ghosted her since Sunday. She tried various time to get in my mind until this morning. I put her in a place and set her free and myself.
> *Like I said, I told her that I want to leave.*


I haven't followed your story although I have an idea as it's played out here on this site and elsewhere thousands of times. You're courageous to come here and be challenged and at times, having your masculinity questioned. I understand all of that from both sides. There's no study course or preparation with infidelity. The experience will test every fiber of your being, spiritually, emotionally, psychologically and physically. 

When it hits you each of these areas are significantly weakened so you're immediately right off the bat not yourself. So when you need your strongest self to come to battle with you it too has betrayed you and will lay dormant until you call it into battle. If you do not, it will lay motionless and shrink. IF YOU FRIKKING ALLOW IT TO. If you call it in and demand your courage and fight get up off the floor, I guarantee you WILL WIN. GUARANTEE. 100% 

It's up to you though 100% as well. Just like a car or computer will not start unless you decide for it to do so, wo will the fight in you. Mind you the fight isn't really with your wife. It's within yourself. Additionally, the fight is for yourself, not your wife or the marriage. To me it's one of the biggest and undiscussed elements of infidelity. The fight is all within. Once you defeat the part of your being that hesitates, fears, doubts and is helpless the question isn't if you will win or not, but when and how. 

I can go on and on about this but it's getting long but I'll end on this simple note. I highlighted your quote that said I want to leave. You may have inadvertently used the word want but start using words that empower you. Don't f around with weakness because it'll kick your ass. You can be timid at other times in your life but to win in infidelity you can't win with it. You don't have to be a so-called alpha and all that **** but you have to be determined, convicted, decisive and practice unbelievable restraint and will. 

So where you say you want to leave. F that. Just leave. No reason to even convey it to be honest. Just do it. Don't talk about it in future tense and definitely don't threaten it. People do that all the time. What they're really saying is I'm desperate as hell and I'm telling you I'm leaving because what I really want is you to be afraid of that and reconcile with me because I don't have the courage to pull it off. 

You know how you beat that thinking? Just become action oriented and say little to few words. That's being a badass for yourself. When you do this you will feel like a badass from this point forward. Prioritize yourself because no one outside of God will be that for you.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Chulo said:


> I agree with you in all what you said, except the part about being a mother, she can always freeze eggs and try later on. Not that I would care anyway.
> And the spin started to work, like I said this morning I was feeling like vomiting all the time, and she desperately call me a couple of times today (didn't answer) messages if I'm OK and what not. I did respond I feel fine. And ended it there.
> 
> As for divorce, the system here is different, if there's mutual agreement of ending the relationship, I'm free on the spot, there is no reason to prove anything, each one goes is way with what he came into the relationship. only if I choose being separated and not divorcing then the drama begins.
> ...


Learn to ignore. Or linger. You have a choice.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

@Chulo how are you doing?


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