# Is this a midlife crisis or am I just tired of being tired?



## Midlifeturmoil (Dec 30, 2013)

I just discovered TAM a few weeks ago and it has been helpful in many ways. I finally decided to post my scenario and ask for your thoughts because I haven't seen anything that fits my situation...although there have been quite a few that have addressed components of my situation. 

My wife and I are in our 40's, were married right out of high school and have children that are in their teens. My youngest will graduate in a couple of years. I was raised in a family that went to church 2 or 3 times a week, but both parents quit going as soon as their health became an adequate excuse to stop attending. My dad was more dedicated to church attendance than my mom, partly because my mom worked a lot of Sundays, but also because she really didn't care to go and didn't care for some of the people there. I think I always knew that my dad was more influenced by what other people thought than he was by his own spirituality. I couldn't wait to get away from my church when I was a teenager so that I could find something...less. Then in my late teens, I met my wife, and to stay connected with her, I basically had to jump right back in. Actually, I guess I never really did get out. My wife and her family is very religious and their spirituality is for real. 

On the outside I suppose it would appear that I have the perfect marriage and a perfect family. The problem is that I have become more and more disconnected with her, dissatisfied with our marriage and dissatisfied with religion or at least dissatisfied with my/our level of religious organization involvement. She still wants to go to church 3 times a week, wants me to be the spiritual leader of our family, wants me to study and pray with her before bed (something I have NEVER felt comfortable doing), and can't seem to give enough in tithing every month...and on and on and on. She can't get enough, she always feels like we aren't doing enough or giving enough or sacrificing enough time. 

Over the years, I have also noticed that while I appreciate and respect her, I do not have passion for her or attraction to her. For example, when I travel, I do not miss her. I never have...at least not that I can remember. I cannot remember a time when I looked forward to going on a vacation with her, holding her hand, going for walks, going on dates, etc. Years ago, she had an automobile accident and acquired a minor injury . When I showed up on the scene I walked up to the vehicle and began to inspect the vehicle without even giving her a glance! Once I realized what I was doing, I was horrified at myself and went immediately to her side. Maybe I am a selfish jerk, but I guarantee that if that had been one of my kids, I would have been in a panic to get to their side. 

The trouble is, she is nearly perfect in every other way. Very supportive, very kind (too kind?), passionate towards me sexually, a great mother, a great role model, a great citizen, highly respected and on and on. 

I have been to see two different councilors over the past couple of years to see if I could figure out what my problem is and if I could improve on my marriage. They both basically said, "you should suck it up, work out the religious differences, and be glad you have such a loving wife". To keep my sanity, I have finally decided to stop pretending and to stop worrying about what other people think, and backed off on church involvement, attendance and so on. I haven't quit, just backed out of all leadership roles and only go occasionally. This of course has really got her concerned about my mental health and has brought about quite a few discussions regarding our marriage. Obviously, the church people, especially the leaders, really think I am losing my mind and need major spiritual guidance/intervention.

We have talked about seeing a marriage councilor, but haven't taken that step yet. While I don't want to bulldoze our lives with separation or even divorce, I am contemplating it because I am having a difficult time seeing myself going back to just pretending about all of this. 

Am I just having a midlife crisis? Your thoughts and suggestions would be most appreciated.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I wouldn't call it a midlife crisis. I would characterize it as differing values and priorities. As a devout atheist (raised Catholic), I am very skeptical of religion yet understand it is very uplifting and serious for many people. 

Essentially, you have to be true to yourself, and let others respond as they will based on their own nature and beliefs. Some couples with greatly differing religious views manage to live and let live, and respect each other despite the differences. That can be hard for some who place too much credence in religious authority and peer pressure than their own thoughts, and that sounds like it could be so in your case.

Can you be true to yourself and sustain this marriage? That depends a lot on your wife. However, given the lack of passion you describe for her, is it worth preserving?


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## ClimbingTheWalls (Feb 16, 2013)

Pardon me for asking, but do you believe, or have you been stuck paying lip service to religion for the whole of your life?

It's not entirely clear to me from your post whether your crisis is mid-life or a crisis of faith.

What does strike me is that your entire adult life has been spent in duty; marriage and raising children. Not to mention religious obligations. I think you are probably kicking back against that now.

It is also very hard work living with a saint.

It is very rare for these problems to be completely one-sided, so I am sure your wife must have her faults, too. But it sounds like your dissatisfaction with her and life in general would strike her like a bolt out of the blue.

I am surprised that the counselling sessions both came to the same conclusions - were you being entirely honest during the sessions? Maybe try a different type of therapist for a different approach? A psychologist, perhaps?


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

It sounds like you've been faking it pretty much your entire marriage and have simply gotten tired of doing so. While I commend you on deciding you don't want to fake religious conviction you don't feel anymore, I also think your wife is going to be blind-sided. Even if it's been with the best of intentions, you've still been lying to her about who you are, your personal core values, for the entirety of the relationship. 

She thought she was marrying a devout man, and has continued to believe that for the duration, because that's apparently what your words and actions have conveyed. Now she's concerned that you're pulling back from your (as you've led her to believe) previously strong faith with no real explanation. Of course she's confused! And worried about you. In her eyes, you've just pulled a complete about-face, regarding something she thought was core to your being, for no apparent reason. 

I think you will have to sit her down and, as lovingly as possible, tell her the truth. That you went along with the religious aspects of your lives together because you didn't want to lose her, but that you do not and have never had the strength of faith that she has. Prepare for her to feel shocked - and probably a bit betrayed. You aren't who you pretended to be in this regard, and she'll probably wonder what else you might have been hiding from her or lying to her about. Given proper handling and mutual love and respect, it is possible to have a happy marriage even in the face of divergent faiths. But it takes work, patience, tolerance, and love to pull it off.

Which brings us to the next salient point. I doesn't sound like you do love your wife. Did you ever love her? Is there a female friend, co-worker or someone else in your life that you feel more attraction and emotional attachment for? Really think about whether or not you are willing to live the rest of your life married to someone you don't love, and whether or not she deserves to spend the rest of hers married to someone who doesn't love her. 

I would suggest marriage counseling, at a minimum. It may be possible for the two of you to grow the love in your marriage, but it won't happen without excellent guidance and hard work on both your parts.


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## damagedgoods1 (Nov 8, 2013)

Thank you for sharing your story and for your honesty.
My advice to you would be to put all of your energy into falling in love with your wife again. i.e. taking her out on dates, 1-1 alone time, perhaps a romantic vacation?
Perhaps your life is all about church and your kids, and there is no more time/love for your wife. Attending church 3 times per week and raising kids takes a lot (all?) of you free time.


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## Midlifeturmoil (Dec 30, 2013)

Climbing,

Do I believe? I think the answer is yes, because I find myself occasionally giving thanks or asking for guidance. Maybe I am just lazy, I don't know.

My summary of the counseling sessions is certainly an over- simplification. One counselor sort of implied that I was going through a midlife crisis ("what do you want, a 25 yr-old girlfriend and a Ferrari?" What I "want" is a relationship where I am really in love with someone. Someone I adore. 

Rowan,
She will not be completely blind-sided because we have been talking about this for months now. She was completely aware of my "problems" and aware that I was seeing a counselor. And she is very concerned about our future...as I am. As far as me doing a 180, this is true to some extent. She had no way to know that I would eventually want to move away from more religious involvement instead of "grow in my faith" and desire ...so yes, my gradual change in attitude towards church or religion or my decline in desire for it...whatever you want to call it, is unfortunate and unfair to her. If she had been paying attention, the signs have been there all along. I have never desired to be the spiritual leader in my family, teach classes, lead bible studies...let alone study on my own, and on and on and on. She just chose to ignore it and I never felt the courage I guess to declare it in plain English.

There is no one else in my life that I feel emotional attachment or attraction for. Finding that might be much more difficult than I realize, and that, I think, was the basis for the counselors' recommendations. Regarding love, I would say that my love for her is more like that of a sister than a spouse. I care about hurting her, my children and both of our families. I know I would feel guilt and face the possibility of regret if I were to end the relationship. So, maybe lack of courage is a common thread throughout my life? 

Damagedgoods,

Thank you and this is what we are doing right now. It hasn't helped me so far (going on dates, trips, etc.) but I will keep trying. She is sort of in a "back off and hope he comes back around" mode. Meaning she is waiting for me to rediscover my faith I guess. Although she hasn't completely backed off because she keeps pushing it at me, although gently (buying me/us religious marriage books, encouraging me to go to church, telling me that it is embarrassing to go to church by herself, etc.). 

Thank you all for your responses. Some of these will be so helpful going forward.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Midlifeturmoil said:


> Am I just having a midlife crisis? Your thoughts and suggestions would be most appreciated.


I have a couple of questions before I could offer an opinion. You said you can't recall ever looking forward to dating/being with her, yet you chose to marry her. What prompted your desire to marry, then? Was it a conscious decision devoid of feeling? 


If it was a decision based on logic without emotion, my next question is... Do you experience strong connections with other people in your life, or is this a noticeable absence in most/all of your relationships?


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## Midlifeturmoil (Dec 30, 2013)

True. We dated for a long time before marrying and I am sure I was convinced that she was the one for me at the time. It did take me a long time to propose and that was prompted by her mother of all people! Nevertheless, I must have convinced myself that I was in love at some level and I'm sure I was. And yes, I know that I did enjoy being with her back then...which would have been over 30 years ago. I don't think I was ever head over heals in love. She is the only person I have ever dated so I didn't and don't have any other reference material other than seeing people around me that do have that kind of a connection.


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## mrsmanhatten (Apr 21, 2012)

Knowing your religion would also help advice offered as some are MUCH different than others in aspects of "losing your faith" and the implications that come after taking actions to make your exodus. I'm still dealing with being shunned by friends and family leaving the Jehovah's witness doctrine.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Midlifeturmoil said:


> And yes, I know that I did enjoy being with her back then...which would have been over 30 years ago. I don't think I was ever head over heals in love. She is the only person I have ever dated so I didn't and don't have any other reference material other than seeing people around me that do have that kind of a connection.


Yet you say you don't have any other emotional attachments or attractions.... 

Have you felt emotional attachments to your parents? Your children? 

I think this could be an important piece of information that can help distinguish whether you're experiencing a character trait, a depression, a midlife crisis, etc. 

If you have experienced significant attachments with others, and you do not feel one with your wife but still DO feel it with others, then your marriage might be lacking, OR you might have unrealistic expectations about what romantic love is. 

If you don't have significant attachments to anyone, but used to, then I'd be considering whether depression or a MLC might be present. 

If you have never really had significant attachments, then you may have something else going on, such as a personality disorder.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

I would qualify the question about significant attachment to exclude your children. Even disordered people can attach to their children because they see themselves in their children. The wife OTH is not blood.

On the religious thing, I was part of that for >25 year of our 31 and I have now completely dropped out of church with no intention to return (though I remain a strong Christian believer). H is still very involved and takes the children. He has accepted my withdrawal from church. I think your wife can adjust to you dropping the religious sheepskin but you should be honest about it.


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## BeachGuy (Jul 6, 2011)

I really don't like the cliche' phrase "midlife crisis". If this part of life is a crisis, then aren't all others too? It's just a "stage" of your life. Don't look at it as a crisis.

We all eventually go through it. The big question...is this all there is to life? I went through it and wouldn't trade it. I enjoyed buying a motorcycle, getting a tattoo. When I suggested to a friend once that I was "having my crisis" they replied "Maybe you're just being yourself for a change?" There was a lot of truth in that statement.

Hang in there.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You should follow your conscience. Don't go one being a fake in the church. You need not go at all. Go if you feel like it. Pray as it pleases you. Tell your wife about the change.

You maybe a closet atheist or agnostic. Maybe you would prefer a different denomination. But regardless, your wife must accept this. Perhaps if she does accept this you will find love for her.

If leaving her spiritual life drives a wedge between you, then you must divorce or enter some unconventional marriage.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Sent you a PM.


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## ClimbingTheWalls (Feb 16, 2013)

Your wife will have to ease off the gas on the religion thing. You clearly need some space to sort out your own thoughts and feelings on that. Your relationship with God is yours and yours alone. Telling you that it is embarrassing to go to church without you is totally missing the point. Why is it embarrassing? Your absence is no reflection on your wife's faith. Maybe you should consider having a meeting with a suitable church leader to discuss your issues and doubts. If you can pick someone who is likely to be understanding and take the line that they will be there for you if you wish rather than thump the Bible at you then they might be able to persuade your wife that simply being there for you if you request help or support on the religious front is all that is required. The rest can be left up to God.

As for the marriage issue - maybe a marriage counsellor is the best approach. That depends on whether the marriage is worth saving. Only you know that.


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## Midlifeturmoil (Dec 30, 2013)

Oh my! I wish I had found this forum years ago. So many OUTSTANDING thoughts and suggestions. Seriously, this is so helpful!

Kathy and Blonde, I would like to respond to your ideas because there may be something there...I am just not smart enough to figure out what it is.

"Have you felt emotional attachments to your parents? Your children? 

I think this could be an important piece of information that can help distinguish whether you're experiencing a character trait, a depression, a midlife crisis, etc. 

If you have experienced significant attachments with others, and you do not feel one with your wife but still DO feel it with others, then your marriage might be lacking, OR you might have unrealistic expectations about what romantic love is. 

If you don't have significant attachments to anyone, but used to, then I'd be considering whether depression or a MLC might be present. 

If you have never really had significant attachments, then you may have something else going on, such as a personality disorder. "

First, I am definitely an introvert. I have a very public career, but I like to work with my door closed, I like to be alone when I get home at night (at least for a while) and I am not bubbly talkative first thing in the morning. I seem to draw strength and renew by being alone...not by being around more people. 

I have often thought it was a bit strange that I don't seem to stay closely connected to friends or family and this is more pronounced now than it was earlier in my life and our marriage. 

I'm not sure how to define feelings for emotional attachment, but I CAN tell you that when my father passes away, I will be very emotional and upset. I can also say that if either of my kids were to pass away, I would be very emotional...extremely. Probably to a lesser degree with my mother, brothers and sisters. I don't stay in close communication with any of them, so I can't say that we are a close family, but we do rally around each other when there is a problem, need or whatever. There is love for one another even if we don't communicate as often as other families do.

I think I do feel depressed at times and more recently with the disconnection in my marriage and desire to get away from the religion. It isn't severe or anything like that, but I think it is a real possibility.

Does this help at all? What else can I tell you?


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## Midlifeturmoil (Dec 30, 2013)

Mr. Avg

I would say that it was moderate love (as opposed to crazy love), in lust and marriage and family all falling in to place. My home life wasn't bad, but marginally dysfunctional in my estimation. Her family was incredibly stable and seemingly perfect. I know that was appealing to me at the time too.

Can I fall in love with her again? I am doubtful, but all that I am learning here gives me some hope.


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## Midlifeturmoil (Dec 30, 2013)

MrAvg said:


> But you do seem to not be able to communicate your true feelings with your wife.


This is very true. I have a hard time talking to her about emotional things. I always have had a hard time with that. I don't know if it is a courage issue or what. I never know what to say, how to word things, and I do not think well on my feet when it comes to emotional things.


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## Midlifeturmoil (Dec 30, 2013)

BeachGuy said:


> When I suggested to a friend once that I was "having my crisis" they replied "Maybe you're just being yourself for a change?" There was a lot of truth in that statement.


This!


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

Try this one on for size: Could this more that you are yearning for an authentic connection that isn't there with your wife? She sounds like a great lady, but if you are having shift in your faith, it may be that the whole thing is feeling phoney and you just can't keep it up anymore. And if your wife is really bought in to the roles you both play, and you can't do it anymore, if would make any person feel disconnected. 

Your responsibility is first to yourself to pursue an authentic life. That could very well be out of the church. I wasn't raised religious so I have a hard time understanding the social pressure of leaving a faith group, but I can imagine it's straining.

The question of your wife is secondary. The first questions to answer are: What is true for me? What life do I want? What do I believe and value?

I don't think this is about a woman.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Midlifeturmoil said:


> First, I am definitely an introvert. I have a very public career, but I like to work with my door closed, I like to be alone when I get home at night (at least for a while) and I am not bubbly talkative first thing in the morning. I seem to draw strength and renew by being alone...not by being around more people.
> 
> I have often thought it was a bit strange that I don't seem to stay closely connected to friends or family and this is more pronounced now than it was earlier in my life and our marriage.
> 
> ...


Being an introvert might appear to be related to whether a person has significant attachments, but in my opinion, I think that the depth of attachments is unrelated to how often and how those connections are made.

Your answers lean me away from character traits, which means there's a need to figure out if it's marital quality, depression, or identity/midlife crisis. 

You also suggested you think you are "just being yourself for once."

I'd caution you here. While it's entirely possible that you're feeling that you are "being yourself," your thought processes, combined with whatever else is happening, could take you down some unhealthy trails. 

I see you right now as a guy who has spent a couple of reasonably successful decades with his wife and family. I'm not seeing a guy who says, "I've been miserable with this woman for years." Obviously, the two of you aren't well-synchronized right now, but I would say this is probably temporary. 

At the very least, I would encourage you to be aware that because she is your nearest/most significant day-to-day connection, she's also the most likely target for criticism when you feel unhappy, especially if that unhappiness is a sort of vague, "I don't know why" sensation. 

Sometime around the age of 30 or so, men start seeing a gradual decline of certain hormones, including testosterone. While I'm not a doc, I believe this could be a major element in what you're experiencing. Testosterone could be affecting how sexually attracted to your wife you are, which in turn can affect how much oxytocin is in your body and how often. (Oxytocin is believed to promote bonding.) It also affects muscle mass, which can affect energy levels, which in turn can affect our thought processes. I only have a rudimentary understanding of these things and no formal training, but I would encourage you to ask your doctor to check these things out. 

Your idea that breaking away from the church is "just being you," might or might not be accurate. Obviously, your church participation doesn't mean as much to you as your wife would like it to. Yet it might mean more to you than you realize, too. Studies have shown a connection between spirituality/faith and happiness, or at least, making a person LESS prone to depression.


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## AlmostYoung (May 24, 2012)

Hi MLT, you are evaluating your entire life right now, because you are in a life transition. This is very normal and should be a good thing. It's only a crises if you deal with it in unhealthy ways, like ending a good marriage of 20 years. 

Unfortunately, some people get to the point you are at and have to see it through. They'll just never be happy until they see if the grass is greener on the other side. Then they're not happy either. (for long) 

Happiness comes from within. It's not your wonderful W making you unhappy.

This is tough stuff and will take you a while to work through. Some of it is rooted in your childhood. Best wishes to you and your family.


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## damagedgoods1 (Nov 8, 2013)

To summarize, I see two outstanding issues:
1) Distancing yourself from your church, 
2) Questioning your feelings for your wife. 

Are these two issues related? If so, how?

Is it your wife pressuring you to attend / give / volunteer at church turning you away from church? 
Or is it the pressure of attending /giving / volunteering turning you away from your wife? 

Would you feel this way about your wife if she wasn't pressuring you about church participation?

Do you feel that the church and your wife are asking you to be something / act in a way that you feel is not yourself?

Has something happened at church to make you feel uncomfortable there / around the congregation?

Obviously, you don't need to answer all of my questions, just giving you something to think about.


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## Midlifeturmoil (Dec 30, 2013)

seeking sanity said:


> Try this one on for size: Could this more that you are yearning for an authentic connection that isn't there with your wife?
> 
> The question of your wife is secondary. The first questions to answer are: What is true for me? What life do I want? What do I believe and value?
> 
> I don't think this is about a woman.


Yearning for an authentic connection? Yes, for sure. And as Damaged suggests, the lack of connection with her is likely (undoubtedly) related to the religion issue. How related? Not sure. But I will continue working on that part of my life and our relationship and we will see how things go from there.


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## Midlifeturmoil (Dec 30, 2013)

KathyBatesel said:


> You also suggested you think you are "just being yourself for once."
> 
> I'd caution you here. While it's entirely possible that you're feeling that you are "being yourself," your thought processes, combined with whatever else is happening, could take you down some unhealthy trails.


Yes, of course if used as a license to relive my youth, go crazy etc. And maybe even as an excuse to "end a 20yr marriage". I don't think I would be here and I wouldn't be experiencing ongoing turmoil if I weren't being cautious/considerate of this. Assuming I understand your point. 

"I see you right now as a guy who has spent a couple of reasonably successful decades with his wife and family. I'm not seeing a guy who says, "I've been miserable with this woman for years." Obviously, the two of you aren't well-synchronized right now, but I would say this is probably temporary." 

I think this is true to some degree. My view right now is more like "I settled for a safe marriage with a very good person that has religious values that are different than mine" (and yes, my fault for not being honest with myself and everyone else since I was...about 16 yrs old). As opposed to "I started off with a terrific situation that I am no longer satisfied with". 

"The idea that breaking away from the church is "just being you," might or might not be accurate. Obviously, your church participation doesn't mean as much to you as your wife would like it to. Yet it might mean more to you than you realize, too. Studies have shown a connection between spirituality/faith and happiness, or at least, making a person LESS prone to depression."

If there is a strong positive correlation there, then I am in trouble. I am fairly confident that working towards building my spirituality/faith more...after 40 years of doing that...is not going to help.


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## Midlifeturmoil (Dec 30, 2013)

Almost Young,

Thank you. I can certainly see the need for caution to not deal with this "transition" in unhealthy ways, much as Kathy suggests. And that especially includes not rushing to end a "reasonably successful" long term marriage. 

"Happiness comes from within. It's not your wonderful W making you unhappy."

I've heard this before, but I still don't think I comprehend it. Maybe it is the same point made by SeekingSanity "The question of your wife is secondary. The first questions to answer are: What is true for me? What life do I want? What do I believe and value?"


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## ClimbingTheWalls (Feb 16, 2013)

Midlifeturmoil said:


> "The idea that breaking away from the church is "just being you," might or might not be accurate. Obviously, your church participation doesn't mean as much to you as your wife would like it to. Yet it might mean more to you than you realize, too. Studies have shown a connection between spirituality/faith and happiness, or at least, making a person LESS prone to depression."
> 
> If there is a strong positive correlation there, then I am in trouble. I am fairly confident that working towards building my spirituality/faith more...after 40 years of doing that...is not going to help.


I don't think that is necessarily the case. I think that the studies showing a connection between faith and happiness do not mean that those without faith are necessarily doomed to be unhappy, nor that you should necessarily try to rebuild your faith. My take on it is that you have possibly used your faith as a crutch more than you might think, given how it has been such a way of life for so long. If that support is now crumbling because you are questioning then the doubts and insecure feelings are going to ripple out into all areas of your life. The only constant you have had other than the faith is your wife and it is easy to see how underlying problems with faith may be manifesting themselves as dissatisfaction with your wife. Or, more likely, the faith problems are magnifying the wife problems, especially given how the two are intertwined.

You are right that you need to think about what you want. The problem is that you might not actually know. Especially since you have not had relationships other than with your wife.

Perhaps you need to sit down and prepare a full list of all the things you like about your wife and your marriage and all the things you dislike about her and your marriage. That may be a useful tool in considering what changes you would like to see in the relationship and whether those are achievable.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

MLT, I think the point about unhappiness coming from within means that whether you feel happy or not depends on what YOU think about the people and events in your life. Your wife's behaviors don't cause your emotions, your thoughts do. 

As far as the church thing, I'm not suggesting that you get more involved with your church OR that your participation will stave off depression. I'm only saying that as you turn away from your participation, you might discover that it's not all bad... that it has played an important role in how you perceive your world and the people around you. If you simply turn your back completely, there might be unanticipated outcomes you did not anticipate. For this reason, I hope you'll give yourself permission to acknowledge its importance to you as you come to see these things (assuming that you do come to see any effects.)

Around the late 30s and early 40s, it's pretty normal to wonder where your life is taking you. In our early 20s, we all felt so certain that we'd have the world conquered in a year or two! One day, we look around and start wondering, "Is this all there is? Is that what I've been working for two decades? Why do I still have these debts and relationship difficulties and... why do I feel no happier than I ever did before?" 

This isn't about anyone in your life, or about your job... it's about whether you think you are failing or succeeding. It sounds like you're wanting to place some blame on your church, your wife, and yourself for not having "more," yet you don't really know what the goal is/was.


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## AlmostYoung (May 24, 2012)

CTW said:


> You are right that you need to think about what you want.


Right. But what we want changes, and will change again and again. Are you going to look for a new partner every time this happens, MLT?

Leaving your W because of your present feelings would be a grave mistake MLT. 



KB said:


> This isn't about anyone in your life, or about your job...


^^^This. Look within for answers to your present turmoil MLT... not to some other woman.


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

Mid - I think you have lived a life according to the expectations of others: society, family, [fill in the blank]. You thought doing so would make you happy because that's what it is supposed to do. Be a good husband, faithful, family-oriented, religious, stable = good American life.

However, what you know deep down is finally starting to come out, and that is you cannot be happy living a life that is not authentic to you. You live as others have prescribed, but you are not happy because you didn't choose it. I suspect that every choice you made/make is in accordance with what society expects and you have failed to ask yourself what your want. What does your soul need? Your soul is dying and it's trying to tell you that. 

You have tried "fake it until you make it" for most of your life, I suspect. But as we get older, we become more ourselves. It is harder to deny our own truth.

No advice on how to remedy your situation, but your gut will likely be a good guide. And if you truly listen to your heart and do right by it, you'll be listening to God at the same time. Do you really think God wants you to live a lie?


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Here's something to ponder: 

You say you've lived your life by others' expectations to quite a degree. You say you have "settled." What I'm going to say next may create a lot of disagreement, which is fine. I'm not trying to tell anyone what they should believe, and this is simply my own observation and education that I'm offering.... 

In historic times, ideas of "right" and "wrong" were very clear. Often, they were set by church ideologies, but not always. Within your own lifetime, you have seen quite a shift in women's roles, for instance. When you were a teenager, the women's lib movement was passing from the media, but you probably noticed that more women entered the workforce than there had been when you were in elementary school, for instance. Or perhaps another example is that when you were a child, and lived by your parent's rules, you became unhappy at some point and longed for independence. You wanted to get a job, get a driver's license, move out on your own. 

Many of those feminists were unhappy with the results they found. Instead of finding instant bliss with their new found freedoms, they discovered entirely new problems they hadn't anticipated. The same happens with that teen as they do move out. Suddenly that glamorous job becomes a tedious chore that doesn't do anything more than pay the stupid rent! 

If asked, some feminists/teens might say, "I wish I hadn't chosen this route," while others would say, "There's a lot I dislike, but I'd make the same choice again." 

MLT, you're at that crossroads where you MUST give up something in order to achieve what you're looking for, but you have TWO desires that are in conflict: "individuality" and "connection." 

If you pursue the path to individuality, you may lose a whole lot of important connections in your life. If you maintain those connections, you'll continue to feel as if you've settled. 

I think you would benefit from asking yourself "how much individuality would satisfy me?" and "how much connection would satisfy me?" Let your answers guide you as you search for a path that lets you resolve the conflict you're facing. 

It may also be helpful to consider a couple of other questions: 

"How will I feel if I lose my individuality/connections entirely?"
"Are there other alternatives I have not considered that can better address this conflict?" 
"Will I be happy with the results of the choice I am considering?"


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## Midlifeturmoil (Dec 30, 2013)

KathyBatesel said:


> MLT, I think the point about unhappiness coming from within means that whether you feel happy or not depends on what YOU think about the people and events in your life. Your wife's behaviors don't cause your emotions, your thoughts do.
> 
> *Kathy, thank you. This is a pretty clear way to look at it. But...if being a lot more religious than I am and wanting me to be the same is included in her behaviours, then this seems to be part of the problem doesn't it? Or are you saying that I just need to think differently about her and our difference in religious desire? *
> If you simply turn your back completely, there might be unanticipated outcomes you did not anticipate. For this reason, I hope you'll give yourself permission to acknowledge its importance to you as you come to see these things (assuming that you do come to see any effects.)
> ...


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## Midlifeturmoil (Dec 30, 2013)

AlmostYoung said:


> Right. But what we want changes, and will change again and again. Are you going to look for a new partner every time this happens, MLT?
> 
> Leaving your W because of your present feelings would be a grave mistake MLT.
> 
> ...



As far as changing often and looking for a new partner, I sure hope I am not that messed up. What I want is to change myself or our relationship so that I/we can look forward to embracing these changes together. I see so many couples that have been together for over 30 years and they still laugh together, hold hands, enjoy traveling together. You just know they were made for each other. The adoration clearly is mutual. That's what I want. I don't ever remember things being like that with her. Maybe I have just forgotten. And if I have to fix myself to get there, then by all means!


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## Midlifeturmoil (Dec 30, 2013)

ebp,

To a large degree, yes. I have started to read "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and I see myself in there a lot.


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## Midlifeturmoil (Dec 30, 2013)

KathyBatesel said:


> Here's something to ponder:
> 
> You say you've lived your life by others' expectations to quite a degree. You say you have "settled." What I'm going to say next may create a lot of disagreement, which is fine. I'm not trying to tell anyone what they should believe, and this is simply my own observation and education that I'm offering....
> 
> ...


Wow. Why do I feel like I should be paying you?

I assume the individuality is doing my own thing religion-wise, yes? 

I promise to ponder this at length. 

Just a few thoughts off the top: Without a doubt, a change in partners would require a major overhaul in my life (possible regret, guilt, effect on kids, friends and family looking at me differently...well, basically thinking I have lost my mind, etc.) so that route automatically represents giving up MUCH. Then there is the risk of never finding (elsewhere) the connection that I want. 

The individuality thing doesn't bother me too much...but I may not understand completely. Less church etc. and for the both of us to be happy/satisfied with that arrangement, will suffice on that front. The question is can we get to the point where we can be happy/satisfied with the difference. If the answer is yes, then the connection will improve some I am sure. If not enough, then I need to work at falling back or more in love with her to gain the rest of it. 

Thank you, seriously


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Midlifeturmoil....just my two cents. I have a feeling you are going to realize to late that what you have with your wife is a good marriage that you have put little to no emotional effort into. Marriage takes work and so does emotional connection, passion, intamacy, and love. Before you walk away and find out you had what you wanted all along...I would take a long look at what is your real motivation here. I get the feeling you have been going through life in a "just along for the ride" mode and not in the drivers seat. Maybe you need to take the drivers seat and the accountability that goes with it. 

Sorry if I seem stern but yes I think you are having a bit of a selfish midlife crisis and I have watched to many people destroy there lives during these times and never recover from the devastation they brought on themselves.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Midlifeturmoil said:


> I haven't quit, just backed out of all leadership roles and only go occasionally. This of course has really got her concerned about my mental health and has brought about quite a few discussions regarding our marriage. Obviously, the church people, especially the leaders, really think I am losing my mind and need major spiritual guidance/intervention.


Did you tell her the truth? That you had been living a lie in terms of the church and did it only to please her, and you're now tired of putting so much effort into something you don't feel passionate about? What did she say, if so? Why not, if not?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Midlifeturmoil said:


> This is very true. I have a hard time talking to her about emotional things. I always have had a hard time with that. I don't know if it is a courage issue or what. I never know what to say, how to word things, and I do not think well on my feet when it comes to emotional things.


Then write her a letter and tell her how you feel.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Midlifeturmoil said:


> As far as changing often and looking for a new partner, I sure hope I am not that messed up. What I want is to change myself or our relationship so that I/we can look forward to embracing these changes together.


That's the easiest part of this puzzle. First, read His Needs Her Needs. Then ask her to read it. Then fill out the Love Busters questionnaire associated with the book (both of you), share with each other, find out how you LB her, and spend the next 3 months or so eliminating those LBs that are in your power to remove, and ask her to do the same for you. If one of her LBs to you is the religion thing, be honest with her; tell her you are NOT comfortable tithing more, etc., and that you two need to find a good compromise here.

In the meantime, start working toward spending 15 hours a week together, away from kids, work, chores, others. You have GOT to reconnect on a one-to-one basis to stay in love. Spending that time together is necessary for this. I know that sounds like a lot of time, but get creative. Start having a cup of coffee together every morning. Just sit at the table together and read the paper and talk about the paper or discuss plans, whatever happens. Set up a jigsaw puzzle somewhere and invite her over for a few minutes here and there to work on it with you. Start taking the dog for a walk together. FIND this time to spend together.

Once you've changed your LB habits, do the Emotional Needs questionnaire and share with each other. Determine how you can be the only one to meet her top 5 ENs. Note that, if one of them involves religion and you feel like a sham doing it, you may need to negotiate on that one and help her find a different way to meet that need. Focus on meeting those ENs. You'll probably see a marked response from her, once you do. 

And once you both start seeing these good responses, your brain chemicals will start flowing again, you'll feel happy to make HER happy, and so on. Pair this with the extra time you're spending together, and I have no doubt the 'in love' feeling will be back in 6 months.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Midlifeturmoil said:


> The question is can we get to the point where we can be happy/satisfied with the difference. If the answer is yes, then the connection will improve some I am sure. If not enough, then I need to work at falling back or more in love with her to gain the rest of it.


I was tired of my lady, we'd been together too long
Like a worn-out recording of a favorite song
So while she lay there sleepin', I read the paper in bed
And in the personal columns there was this letter I read

'If you like Pina Coladas, getting caught in the rain
If you're not into yoga, if you have half a brain
If you like making love at midnight in the dunes on the cape
I'm the love that you've looked for write to me and escape'

I didn't think about my lady, I know that sounds kinda mean
But me and my old lady had fallen into the same old dull routine
So I wrote to the paper, took out a personal ad
And though I'm nobody's poet, I thought it wasn't half bad

"Yes, I like Pina Coladas and getting caught in the rain
I'm not much into health food, I am into champagne
I've got to meet you by tomorrow noon and cut through all this red tape
At a bar called O'Malleys where we'll plan our escape"

So I waited with high hopes and she walked in the place
I knew her smile in an instant, I knew the curve of her face
It was my own lovely lady and she said, "Oh, it's you?"
Then we laughed for a moment and I said, "I never knew"

"That you liked Pina Coladas and getting caught in the rain
And the feel of the ocean and the taste of the champagne
If you like making love at midnight in the dunes on the cape
You're the lady I've looked for, come with me and escape"

If you like Pina Coladas and getting caught in the rain
If you're not into yoga, if you have half a brain
If you like making love at midnight in the dunes on the cape
I'm the love that you've looked for, write to me and escape

Yes, I like Pina Coladas and getting caught in the rain
I'm not much into health food, I am into champagne
I've got to meet you by tomorrow noon and cut through all this red tape
At a bar called O'Malleys where we'll plan our escape


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## AlmostYoung (May 24, 2012)

mineforever said:


> Sorry if I seem stern but yes I think you are having a bit of a selfish midlife crisis and I have watched to many people destroy there lives during these times and never recover from the devastation they brought on themselves.


I agree MLT is going through a mid life awakening. At some point, many people have a wake up call and think: *is this all there is?* and start analyzing everything, even, and often especially, their spouse.

But the fact that MLT is here and questioning himself, is a positive sign... The worst MLC''ers run hard and fast, never questioning their thoughts or actions for a moment. And yes, they usually do burn everything and everyone behind them.

I really like turnera's advice. 

MLT, my W said many of the things you said, and spun into crises... two years ago. It's not over yet, but she's still here and seems to be working on her stuff. Understand that this will take time. Be patient with yourself. Hopefully your W will be patient with you as well.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Have you looked up "the emotionally unavailable man"? Not saying this is you but could it be that you might not have the ability to be emotionally available to anyone and that this is not just about your feelings towards your wife?


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## Midlifeturmoil (Dec 30, 2013)

turnera said:


> Did you tell her the truth? That you had been living a lie in terms of the church and did it only to please her, and you're now tired of putting so much effort into something you don't feel passionate about? What did she say, if so? Why not, if not?


I did tell her the truth. Probably not very eloquently or even clearly. She didn't say much, other than she thinks I am depressed. Those conversations have declined in frequency lately. The only thing we have discussed lately is the need to see a MC. With this feedback from TAM, I feel like I should have the conversation again (or write a letter), trying to explain myself better. I do think she thinks I am going through a depression/MLC and will eventually emerge ready to get back to the old routine.

Or maybe the place to start is your suggestion for reading His Needs Her Needs and discussing the LB's. Regardless, the conversations and effort on my part do need to resume. I will try to visit with her yet today.

Thank you for the clarity and encouragement.


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## Midlifeturmoil (Dec 30, 2013)

AVR1962 said:


> Have you looked up "the emotionally unavailable man"? Not saying this is you but could it be that you might not have the ability to be emotionally available to anyone and that this is not just about your feelings towards your wife?


I did since you mentioned it! I just read a few articles online. Geez. It seems like I have at least some of the symptoms that a lot of these "conditions" describe (just like the Nice Guy syndrome).

Being reluctant to make decisions, preferring texting or email to communicate over calling (business and personal), ambiguous about status of the relationship, never moving the relationship forward...just status quo, and a few more do hit home.


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## damagedgoods1 (Nov 8, 2013)

Midlifeturmoil said:


> I did tell her the truth. Probably not very eloquently or even clearly. She didn't say much, other than she thinks I am depressed. Those conversations have declined in frequency lately. The only thing we have discussed lately is the need to see a MC. With this feedback from TAM, I feel like I should have the conversation again (or write a letter), trying to explain myself better. I do think she thinks I am going through a depression/MLC and will eventually emerge ready to get back to the old routine.
> 
> Or maybe the place to start is your suggestion for reading His Needs Her Needs and discussing the LB's. Regardless, the conversations and effort on my part do need to resume. I will try to visit with her yet today.
> 
> Thank you for the clarity and encouragement.


Thanks for the update. Is she willing to go to MC with you? Has she "eased off the gas" regarding your church involvement?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Start going to IC, with or without her.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Midlifeturmoil said:


> I assume the individuality is doing my own thing religion-wise, yes?
> 
> The individuality thing doesn't bother me too much...but I may not understand completely.


Individuality means determining what you want for yourself, which inherently means you're putting your own wishes ahead of your relationship with another person if _your_ wants don't match _their_ expectations. It's sort of like the difference between a rebel and a team player. It wouldn't bother you. It could bother your relationships with others, though, and the result can potentially harm that relationship. 

So it's partly your choices on religion, yes, but it can also be more than that. For so many years, you've been the team player who went along to get along, and now you're rebelling to a degree. 

This means your wife's expectations and your wants aren't matching up, and there's a need to solve that conflict. Perhaps you'll decide that your wants are more important than your relationship with her. Perhaps you'll cave and decide that your marriage is what's most important. If you're very fortunate, you'll be able to find a happy medium that lets you stay (get?) connected without completely abandoning what she'd like to see. 

As I'm thinking about this, I find myself wondering what would happen if you told her that you would stop attending church regularly for the next six months, but would attend on religious holidays and for specific events (baptisms, weddings), and that you would instead devote time to talking with her about the services SHE attends? Would she offer you six months pressure-free for you to evaluate how you feel about your faith in this way? More specifically, I'm wondering if having that time for yourself would lead you to feel better or worse about both your faith AND help you connect in your marriage.


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