# Wife cheated 7 yrs ago; does the paranoia ever end?



## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

long story short: wife and i were married young. after about 8 yrs of marriage, she cheated. first time was with a "friend" of mine. one night stand. 2nd time was with a co-worker.

she confessed, we went to counseling, and we worked through it. 

flash forward to today, we have 2 young kids, everything is great, but i'm still super suspicious of any friendships she strikes up with coworkers....I dont' think it's anything shes' doing, but i wonder if my suspicion/paranoia will ever go away?

the catalyst was a comment i noticed on her phone from a coworker. i've always thought this guy was a bit too friendly (shoulder rubs for all the woman at work , "popping" their backs, etc), but feel that he went over the line when he offered to let my wife "practice" earning beads in preparation for a trip we made to New Orleans. it was an offhand comment; she did not reply, it seems totally one sided (from him), but i feel that she should shut him down hard. she is pretty much playing it off like "he's joking...he didn't mean anything...he's never said anything like that before". other coworkers of hers, that i actually like/trust, say he's not threat...just an overly freindly guy. He's married, kids, etc....i think she really doesn't know how to handle it. Her plan seems to be to just ignore the comment and hope it goes away/stops because she's just a friendly person in general.

now i find myself constantly wondering who shes texting, calling, what is going on with in game chat for social games (she plays scrabble with him along with me and about 8 other people) on her phone.....she's given me no reason to suspect her, but i just don't want to be blindsided as i was before.

any advice? when does this suspicion end? am i just damaged goods?


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Your reaction is totally normal.


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

I'm sorry but I don't think the suspicion will ever end how could it are brains are hardwired to remember traumatic events to avoid them in the future.



This is going to be part of your life now.....


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

What did you do when you found out about her affairs? Did she show remorse? Was there any consequences for her betrayal or did you just let it go?

Now honestly, this is coming from someone who believes that cheating is a deal breaker and there's no turning back, but others have chosen to stay but they have made their cheating spouse do the heavy lifting. 

What did she do for you to prove that she wanted the marriage to work? Is she still working with the guy she had the affair with?

IMO if some over friendly guy sends a text like that to my wife with a history of being unfaithful and she does nothing about it, or doesn't tell you, then I would be letting her know that it's not going to happen again and she better realize that you wont be the nice guy again.

In other words, did you rug sweep the affair?


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

StuckInAL said:


> long story short: wife and i were married young. after about 8 yrs of marriage, she cheated. first time was with a "friend" of mine. one night stand. 2nd time was with a co-worker.
> 
> she confessed, we went to counseling, and we worked through it.
> 
> ...


Get into counceling for you. 
Start taking better care of you. If she cheats again there is nothing you can do to stop her. Sure it sucks but its life. You can only control you. Start working out. Start doing things for you. Get more confident with who you are. If she does it again then just boot her out and keep your child. 


I am sorry you are going through this but I think you need to take the time out to heal you.

Clay


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

As a former wayward wife, my opinion is that she doesn't really get it. My affair was discovered over two years ago and i wouldn't begin to think of texting another man. Especially a co-worker considering her MO.

And I'd say the reason you feel suspicious is because you probably never got every question answered about her betrayals.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

First, thanks for the replies.....i'm pretty sure i'm not completely crazy at least.

when the affairs first came to light; i freaked out. i moved out for a week or so....initially, i thought our marriage was over. we argued alot. eventually we both decided that we wanted the marriage to work.
again, we got married very young and time changes people. there were other factors involved; she'd had gastric bypass surgery and was getting alot of attention that she never got before. i think she had a problem dealing with it; which is understandable.
i did not just let it go by any means. counseling helped alot and there was (and still is) a very high level of transparency in our relationship. 

to prove she wanted the marriage to work, she broke off ties with "friends" of hers (female) that we thought were negative influences. she had no contact with either guy she cheated with. she no longer works with the coworker that she cheated with.

i dont' think i swept the affair under the rug, but i never really wanted to know all the details...maybe that's led to me lacking a bit of closure?

she didn't try to hid it, initially, she didn't even notice the message from him. i honestly believe she was surprised by it and taken aback. i told her that i feel as though its very disrepectful to me and our marriage for this guy to make inappropriate comments. he's made them in a private manner so only she would see them. he's said nothing in peson within earshot of coworkers. in my opinion, this isn't something he'd say if my wife, myself, he and his wife were standing around chit chatting, so it's not something he should say privately. 

i think i want her to be the one to just say "hey buddy...back off" without me having to harp and complain about it. 

is there a point where i won't be curious about her texts/messages/emails?

i really dont' think i'm over the cheating and im wondering if i ever will be. I find it interesting that she can recall events in our life happily during the period of her infidelity, but all i can remember is what was going on behind the scenes.

i once threw her a surprise birthday party....she remembers the party...all the guests..the fun.. i remember that i invited the coworker she was cheating with b/c i wasn't aware of the affair...how stupid i feel and must have looked. at least i understood later why he never responded to my voicemails /calls re: attending the party.

i believe she understands that i was hurt; but i dont' think she understands the extent of the damage..maybe....


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

It’s inappropriate. She knows this. Have you told her what you want her to do about it?

I’d sit down with her again. Just be blunt and tell her some things can’t ever return to normal because of this past. It is really hardwired into your noggin. You know, and she knows, just because he’s married does not at all mean he won’t jump on the chance to ‘get some’ with her. He’s already being inappropriate and crossing the line into behaviors she would not so readily dismiss as ‘joking’ if you did this. So, you expect action to curtail that this treatment toward her by him is even remotely acceptable. She needs to shut him down; not make excuses for him.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

You have to insist that she shut him down and show you proof that she did. It's just that simple. She no longer has the luxury of saying "it's harmless" or that she "can handle it" - and she never will again. Now is the time to make her understand that, as it's apparent she doesn't.

And after she does shut him down, I'd add my own message to him for the cherry on top.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I agree with regret. Your wife should not be sending or receiving texts from any men, coworkers or no. 

Regret is right. She doesn't get it. Sounds like your wife has low boundaries. 

And you should confront this guy. Call him and tell him his remark was inappropriate , and that if he sends your wife any more texts that are not job related, you will be having a conversation with his supervisor. Don't ask her permission to do this. Step up and be a leader in your marriage, because she is obviously oblivious. 

Talk to her. Tell her how it makes you feel. She may very well be oblivious to her own screwup. 

And between you and me, if I were you I would be socking money away in a secret account, so that when she does cheat on you again down the road, you will have funds to fall back on if you need to move out and get away from her. Have an exit strategy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

i told her that i didn't like it at all and that it was waaay over the line. we discussed it and i offered up my advice/how i would handle it. i'm pretty sure this guy would just reply with "hey, i was just joking, haha..." kinda play it off if confronted. from what i can tell, she is opting to just ignore the comment he made, not engage him on it, and hope it goes away. she really doesn't want to go through life believing that every man she meets/works with just wants to get in her pants. (when i'm pretty sure about 85% of them probably do....)

it feels odd to say "hey, cut off all contact with this guy b/c *he* made an ippropriate comment ..... because of something that happened between you and i seven years ago"....something im supposed to be "over".

she acknowledges that she'd be upset if the sitation were reversed, but i think she isn't going the nuclear option because she has no intent of cheating ever again and she knows if the situation were reversed; there's nothign to worry about on my end. i'd never cheat.

i think she just doesn't realize how it hurts me. i mean, guys have hit on her before (in bars...old flames that she's run into), but it's never been someone she sees often....or someone so close to the previous "other man". 

i dont' think she understands that i can (and have) forgiven; but i'll never forget.


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## Twistedheart (May 17, 2010)

No.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

There will always be suspicion, how could there not be?

She deceived you in the ultimate way, with two different guys, and there's no way you're ever going to get completely past it.

Unless you leave her, and apparently that is not a serious option for you.


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## GoSoHosed (Apr 17, 2014)

Good Topic!
I am 4 month out from d day with my ww. I am on the fence whether to R or Divorce. StuckinAL, you made a comment that you did not ask details and that might be why you are in this mindset even after 7 years. That scares the crap out of me. I am too old to be having constant thoughts like I have now.


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

If I may, all betrayed spouses need to ask questions. I'm not saying that you must have every detail of every occurrence, but - if that's what you need, then ask. Dig once said to me that I had a 5000 piece puzzle all put together for myself while he only had about 5 pieces of the same puzzle and they were the middle pieces.

You need to get answers to whatever questions you can handle, to whatever degree or level, IF you want to heal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

i definately think she doesn't "get it" entirely....she's never been in my position. i've never once even considered straying.

also, she isn't exchanging txts per se....basically, the are playing scrabble vs one another (she plays vs several people at once) and the game has a chat feature for "trash talk" to a degree...

all communcation from her is totally harmless "crap, i wish i had X tile"..."i'm going to win this game"...etc. the messages from him are pretty benign too...aside from two. the first that caught my eye was his offer to let her practice earning beads for New Orleans (i'm pretty sure everyone here knows how to read between those lines) and an earlier message along the lines of "did zumba (exercise she does) stomp your tail? or what is left of it?"....

obviously, this guy shouldn't be asking my wife to flash him....and he really shoudln't be worried about her "tail".

in both cases she opted to just ignore the comments entirely....again, she is a super nice person to everyone...and i don't think she understands how this could be interpreted by the other party.

i think i may need to sit down with her and ask all those uncomfortable questions i never asked before for fear of derailing the reconciliation.


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

Ahh, the old Words With Friends chatting. It happens a heck of a lot more than you can imagine.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Um, while you're at it, insist that there are no more shoulder rub/back poppings by this operator.

He's trolling for females, despite all the protestations to the contrary.

Follow the bouncing ball.


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

Regret214 said:


> Ahh, the old Words With Friends chatting. It happens a heck of a lot more than you can imagine.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


nail on the head....it's just odd to me that she chats with him via this app at all; it's not required to play the game. she's a very competative person and he seems to beat her constantly. that's probably why she is compelled to play him. for her, it's about beating him at stupid scrabble. for him? who knows.

she plays vs plenty of other guys that i have no problem with; granted i know most of them and i've not met this guy at all...they've also never made inappropriate comments.

i just hate to drag this up; but i also hate feeling this way.


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

michzz said:


> Um, while you're at it, insist that there are no more shoulder rub/back poppings by this operator.
> 
> He's trolling for females, despite all the protestations to the contrary.
> 
> Follow the bouncing ball.


i made this request when i first noticed the inappropriate message...and she agreed. did she comply? who knows.....

she's also friends with him on facebook....he seems to "like" all her photos...a few comments here/there...nothing inappropriate; but again, it's a semi-public forum. he only made these two comments in a private setting. i feel like he's slowly ramping up and she seems oblivious.

im really not worried about her cheating...this has stirred up emotions in me that are confusing and i'm struggling with how to deal with them. what do i ask of her? burn a friendship b/c i have an "off" feeling? is that too far?


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

StuckinAl, I'm sorry that you're here.

Here's what I see.

You post your story.

Other people post advice.

You ignore what's been posted and post more of your story.

People post more advice.

You ignore it some more.

Which is really kind of interesting, because, based on your posts, it's what you do in real life, too. Your wife gets propositioned to show some guy her tits. You tell her you don't like it. She doesn't address the situation.

You ignore it. Yeah, really, you do. There are no repercussions, no consequences for her. Unless you consider "and then I told her again," a consequence.

If you want sympathy for being in a bad situation and making a bad choice on who you fell in love with, you're in the right place. 

The collective wisdom of the posters on TAM offers a lot more than that, though. May I humbly suggest that you go back and read what other people have typed on your thread? I mean, read it, and think about it, and try to apply it to your situation.

As somebody noted, your wife doesn't "get it." Somebody else pointed out that your wife has poor boundaries, and yet another poster urged counseling.

I'll add that YOU have poor boundary control, because you are effectively tolerating this behavior from your wife. She scarred you, twice , with her infidelity, and no, its never going to go away for you with her.

Faced with a situation where some scumbag is trying to hit on her, she

1) Lacked the foresight to avoid having the interactions that gave scumbag the idea that she might be amenable to showing him her tits.

2) Lacks the strength of character to tell him that she's a loyal devoted wife (at least she's not lying, huh?) and that he should go f*ck himself.

3) Lacks the devotion to YOU to tell him to go f*ck himself, which would send a clear, unambiguous signal to you that "You're number 1!"

And you lack the fortitude to demand these things from her. Hence, my statement about YOUR poor boundary control. So, as still ANOTHER poster suggested, why don't you take some leadership and go explain to scumbag that asking your wife to show him her tits isn't acceptable behavior for him.

And just for good measure, if he tries to laugh it off as a joke, just tell him that what would be hilarious was if he brought his wife into the office and she showed everyone there her tits for a string of beads.


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

The Catch-22 is if you don't "drag this up", you're going to continue "feeling this way".

I'm not going to put it all on the other guy, but truth is there are predatory people out there. Of BOTH sexes.

Using the app to chat is how one covers tracks, too. There's no record on your phone bill, and once the game is over and off the list of previous games, so too is the evidence. Hence, it's a cheaters app of choice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

stuckinal said:


> nail on the head....it's just odd to me that she chats with him via this app at all; it's not required to play the game. She's a very competative person and he seems to beat her constantly. That's probably why she is compelled to play him. For her, it's about beating him at stupid scrabble. For him? Who knows.
> 
> She plays vs plenty of other guys that i have no problem with; granted i know most of them and i've not met this guy at all...they've also never made inappropriate comments.
> 
> *i just hate to drag this up; but i also hate feeling this way.*


*then tell herrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!*


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Listen, even if she says something and he responds with "I was just joking, lighten up.." it establishes her boundary. He shouldn't joke like that with her. 

But she has to want to do this. You stepping in is not at all the same, nor does it set that boundary beyond YOU not liking this. She has to not like it. Does she?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

StuckInAL said:


> i made this request when i first noticed the inappropriate message...and she agreed. did she comply? who knows.....there's that whole trust thing.
> 
> 
> *Why didn't you verify? Ask her for proof? Ask her to forward you the text or e-mail? *
> ...


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

It really sounds like she does not really care of your feelings and she never learned her lesson. She does not respect you because you showed her you don't really respect yourself. I would just tell her either this stops all together and she becomes completely transparent or a divorce will be next. Don't entertain a discussion on it or anything just say it and walk away. Once she gets the hint she will either stop and want to seriously fix your marriage or she will move one. In either case you will know clearly where you stand. 

Clay


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

@racer yes...that's how i feel..i want her to be the one to say "whoa...not cool". she does not like it; but i dont' think she takes it that seriously. while, given our past, i do....

@regret yep..i've noticed that about the app...from what i saw, the flirting is def. one sided....she just seems to ignore it.

@notlikeyou you are right....alot of the hesitance on my part is due to the fact that this just happened about 4 days ago....so i'm kinda interested in seeing how it goes. im totally with you on points 2 and 3..not much to do about point 1. some rando on the street can just walk up and say "show me your tits", but i get where you are coming from. from reading the posts here, my main takeaway so far is that she really doesn't get it...and thats' probably mostly my fault for being too concentrated on making things better (with her involvment) than really going back and explaining just how hurt i was (am?).

@bandit there's really no way for me to verify that she's not running into him at work....when she first saw the "flashing" message, her response was "wow...wtf..he's never said anything like this...sheesh"...i said..wow..see, that guy is bad news. her: " uhm...yeah...no more shoulder rubs/back popping..im going to just steer clear". we are both on facebook and there is alot of transparency there. I'm not "worried" about her cheating in that i don't believe she would cheat again. a lot has changed since the affair and ONS. we've both finished college, we've moved from the city we once lived in, we've had children together, im not as selfish and emotionally distant as i was. our lives and marriage are in a better place now than ever before...i'm strugging with my feelings re: to just how paranoid i should be and what is reasonable to ask of her. that's why im posting here.

@clay i do think she cares for me and i think she learned a lesson re: cheating and understands it hurt me/our marriage/etc...but i don't think she understands just how much it damaged me. i don't see anything from her side to stop. again, she's not flirting w/this guy....it'd be akin to some guy a bar hitting on her and she's just ignoring him vs telling him to back off. in the bar situation, she's actually been waaay forceful w/guys to just back up (when i'm there or not)...w/this guy, i think she's trying to be nice b/c she works around him. he works on a different floor than her. they really don't work closely together. from what her coworkers tell me, hes just "that guy" who roams around being super friendly. any guy here will tell you why....but these women are just oblivious. we discussed the message with a friend who works with her and she was totally surprised he'd say something like that.

i dont' want to live my life with an exit strategy...

has any marriage out there actually managed to survive long term post an affair??!!


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

The big thing is she cheated twice. That put her in serial cheater range.

No you should always be ready to c*ck block, past history or not. In your situation, I would have already given the om an earful and his wife too.

Tell your wife to get rid of the cheater apps.

Sounds like she is doing good now, but your actions are weak.

Get the two books linked to below. They can be downloaded at amazon too.

She has increased her sex rank, have you?

Make no mistake, the om is fishing. Tell him if he touches your wife again, there will be hell to pay. If he says he is just joking tell him to just f#ck off.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

StuckInAL said:


> it feels odd to say "hey, cut off all contact with this guy b/c *he* made an ippropriate comment ..... because of something that happened between you and i seven years ago"....something im supposed to be "over".


I'm not suggesting that she has to cut off all contact if they have to work together. What I am suggesting is that she let him know that his comments were inappropriate, not welcome, and can be considered sexual harassment; and that she will go to HR if it continues. If the fear of losing his job doesn't set him straight, nothing will.

She needs to send that statement via e-mail or certified mail, so that it can be documented if this continues.

Don't let her weasel out of this. Even if she hadn't cheated before, that's what she should do. No-brainer since she has.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Do not say anything to her about your"hurt". It just makes you look unmanly and weak. Tell her you're pi$$ed. Get the MMSLP book today.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

StuckInAL said:


> the catalyst was a comment i noticed on her phone from a coworker. i've always thought this guy was a bit too friendly (shoulder rubs for all the woman at work , "popping" their backs, etc), but feel that he went over the line when he offered to let my wife "practice" earning beads in preparation for a trip we made to New Orleans. it was an offhand comment; she did not reply, it seems totally one sided (from him), but i feel that she should shut him down hard. she is pretty much playing it off like "he's joking...he didn't mean anything...he's never said anything like that before". other coworkers of hers, that i actually like/trust, say he's not threat...just an overly freindly guy. He's married, kids, etc....i think she really doesn't know how to handle it.


This guy needs to be shut down, and hard. If your wife won't do it (WTF?!?), do it yourself. No need to be overly aggressive, yell, shout, etc, but definitely let him know that he's crossed a line and that, if he does it again, there will be a very palpable problem between the two of you.

Along w/ him and his wife.

And your fist and his jaw.


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

@chaparral i never really considered her a serial cheater...it all happened in one tumultuous month period...but twice is twice... i do think she is doing well considering our past and i do think im not quite strong/forward enough when it comes to her. it's odd b/c im a pretty strong person in other areas of my life. re: increased sex rank; yes...since this all happened, i've lost around 100lbs, i jog daily, etc..etc.


and wow...3 pages in a few hours. i really appreciate the replies/insight/suggestions. our past isn't something we broadcast to friends who weren't around back then. there are few people i can talk to about this.


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

I think this is really the key part for you. It does not matter if it is this guy or it is the next guy. She is not making you feel secure in your marriage. She is failing to do the heavy lifting to show you she only wants you. Its her job to do this since she cheated on you. Not Once but twice. 

I go back to what i said before. I would seriously start investing in you and getting counceling for you. 

Clay


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

StuckInAL said:


> i made this request when i first noticed the inappropriate message...and she agreed. did she comply? who knows.....
> 
> she's also friends with him on facebook....he seems to "like" all her photos...a few comments here/there...nothing inappropriate; but again, it's a semi-public forum. he only made these two comments in a private setting. i feel like he's slowly ramping up and she seems oblivious.
> 
> im really not worried about her cheating...this has stirred up emotions in me that are confusing and i'm struggling with how to deal with them. what do i ask of her? burn a friendship b/c i have an "off" feeling? is that too far?


Play a game. Every photo he likes, post a comment on it as well. Just to let him know you are also on her page and monitoring her pictures. Any comment he makes, reply directly to him but keep it in a neutral tone, not friendly. That way he doesn't get ideas you're some kind of chump he can charm.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> to prove she wanted the marriage to work, she broke off ties with "friends" of hers (female) that we thought were negative influences. she had no contact with either guy she cheated with. she no longer works with the coworker that she cheated with.


The issue is that you have a cheating wife. If I have a ****ty car, no point changing my mechanic or my car servicing center.

Infidelity should always be a immediate deal breaker in case the couple don't have kids. No point now, though


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

StuckInAL said:


> @chaparral i never really considered her a serial cheater...it all happened in one tumultuous month period...but twice is twice... i do think she is doing well considering our past and i do think im not quite strong/forward enough when it comes to her. it's odd b/c im a pretty strong person in other areas of my life. re: increased sex rank; yes...since this all happened, i've lost around 100lbs, i jog daily, etc..etc.
> 
> 
> and wow...3 pages in a few hours. i really appreciate the replies/insight/suggestions. our past isn't something we broadcast to friends who weren't around back then. there are few people i can talk to about this.



What was her reason to confess to you ?

She had no problem doing it twice..

How did you verify it was the truth ?(other than that is what she told me)

She lost weight and she cheated. How many time do we see this situation ?


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## Staci_stars (May 5, 2014)

I asked a friend of mine about this. His wife cheated on him, and got pregnant with the other guy. They worked through it. I told him, I don't see how. He said she was so remorseful, and to this day, 8 years later still does everything to make sure there is no doubt. She isn't on social media. She said if it takes a lifetime to win the trust back, she is committed to that. I have heard many say that then after a month, I've tried, but that's long enough. Really? If your committed, you will do whatever it takes...


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

@warlock she confessed b/c we had a big blowout and she took off...met up w/the friend...had the ONS. it was really rocky time for us both. i'm not saying i'm perfect at all and she definately admits to wrong doing. The coworker i found out about much later. after we reconciled she opted out of the blue to come clean about everything. i had no idea. it was a short fling thing...i think the reason that it came to light is b/c he made some waaay off base pass at her. 

the coworker story is that they had a fling....it was before we started serious reconciliation. once we decided to salvage the marriage, she told him it was a one time thing...it's over..etc. later down the road he gets married. apparently, he was engaged during their tryst (quality guy). she thought fine..ok..we don't work closely together and he's married now. so no need to "worry" about that i guess. well, at some point, he approached her out of the blue and suggested they take a lunch break at his place b/c his newlywed wife woudln't be around. she shut him down and then told me about it and came clean. i really think that's the whole of it b/c she didn't *have* to tell me about the coworker at all really. 

re: lose weight and cheat...im sure it's quite often.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

So is this player married?

Get a copy of that email or text and send it to his wife.

Send a message to the POSOM to keep his hands off your wife.

Tell your wife if you want to stay in the marriage, no more contact with this slimeball.

You have to be ready to walk away for her to start respecting you. She does not care if she keeps hurting your feelings and she has not been a friend to your marriage.

When is she going to start being remorseful and a friend to your marriage? You are trying, she is not.

Your marriage will not make it this way. If she can't cut off her contact, she should get another job. So did you ask her if he gave her the beads already?

Where did she hide them?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Sounds like cleaned up and heavily edited versions..Very unlikely that is what happened.

1) The rocky time was likely because of this friend. People who cheat pick up fights with their SO's to find reasons to cheat. nd it was once ? try asking her about it again. Maybe you will get the truth now that she is fairly confident that you won't leave her.

2) Were you both separated and seeing other people during this time ? Was it agreed that you could see other people ? She could have confessed it because the co-worker could have been blackmailing her.

her stories have a bad ring to them. Hopefully she really changed during the R and this is not a case of you having rose-tinted glasses and getting used to her entitled behavior.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

StuckInAL said:


> it feels odd to say "hey, cut off all contact with this guy b/c *he* made an ippropriate comment ..... because of something that happened between you and i seven years ago"....something im supposed to be "over".
> 
> 
> i think she just doesn't realize how it hurts me. i mean, guys have hit on her before (in bars...old flames that she's run into), but it's never been someone she sees often....or someone so close to the previous "other man".


I agree with part of bandits post that stepping up and handling this with this guy is a good idea. It shows strength to him, and to your wife, that you won't put up with that kind of crap. 

Think about it - if this guy really is just "too friendly but not a cheater", wouldn't he run the hell away from a woman whose husband firmly told him to never speak to her like that again?

I think this would be very effective if done firmly, but not over the top.

On a different note, however, I do feel that your wife is handling this well so far. Her ignoring it and not responding is the right approach. The less she engages him, the better. Kudos to her for doing that the right way. This guy clearly does it for positive reactions. She's not giving him one.

YOU, however, should step in, put the kibosh on this and close it.

Edited to add: Other guys out there, if someone said that to your wife, wouldn't you take it upon yourselves to make it very clear to the guy that is not acceptable and he better not ever do it again? Right? To me that's the natural reaction to this.


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

StuckInAL said:


> she acknowledges that she'd be upset if the sitation were reversed, but i think she isn't going the nuclear option because she has no intent of cheating ever again and she knows if the situation were reversed; there's nothign to worry about on my end. i'd never cheat.


You have received good advice here but let me take a positive note. I think the above is correct. Unlike you she is quite secure in the marriage because she knows that you will never cheat. 

She doesn’t intend to ever cheat again and will obviously know if she does. There is no threat of betrayal for her so everything is fine. She can’t really wrap her mind around your concern.

Another positive note is that this happened when she lost weight. This is a very vulnerable time especially if she was heavy as a girl. (If my wife suddenly lost weight I would plant a VAR and GPS for that reason alone). 

Women like attention and if she had never gotten it before it would be even more seductive. Also women develop sills to handle men that want to get in their pants. Maybe she never developed them to a great extent. So her cheating days may be over.

Tell her that because of her past she has lost the “benefit of the doubt” from you and has to be more open than other wives.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Gabriel said:


> Edited to add: Other guys out there, if someone said that to your wife, wouldn't you take it upon yourselves to make it very clear to the guy that is not acceptable and he better not ever do it again? Right? To me that's the natural reaction to this.


Yes.


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

@warlock i was giving you the short answer for brevity's sake. the rocky time was actually due to a lot of factors....and the "friend" didn't help matters at all. that was definately a ONS. to point 2, no we weren't separated at all...and she told me waaay after it was over. she had actually changed jobs and there was zero chance she was still seeing this guy. she just wanted to come completely clean of her own volition.

@graywolf2 you are right RE: how to handle attention from guys...we got started dating in highschool...she never really had any time to deal with the way "adult" men interact with women....and yes; the weight loss played a huge role in the affairs.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

StuckInAL said:


> well, at some point, he approached her out of the blue and suggested they take a lunch break at his place b/c his newlywed wife woudln't be around. she shut him down and then told me about it and came clean.


Oh, so. she does know how to shut things down when she chooses to.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

I know that reconciliation after breaking trust is a hard thing, maybe the hardest thing that a person can endure. With the decision to reconcile come with it the thoughts of wondering whether it will happen again, and with all the hurt. I don't know if the person that did the cheating will ever know how hurt it was. It seems to me that your wife really isn't being as conscious about this as she should and that things like this will likely hurt you. If you try talking about it with her, you'll get "why do you have to bring this up all the time, aren't you ever going to trust me?" Well, the answer to this question is quite likely, no. I wouldn't call this paranoia, you're doing as you should and protecting yourself. You will sooner or later have to ask yourself the question of whether it would be better to start fresh with someone else.


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

@jb yeah..i mean, i think i was just surprised at how "not over" this i actually am....im not sure if i'll ever get to a place where there isn't some "trigger" that'll put me into suspcious mode. 

i do think there are long periods where everything is peachy...then something happens...and it all comes flooding back.

i will say that i love this woman...i love our kids..i love the life we've made together. she feels the same. i do not think she has any intention of ever cheating again. i was just curious if my feelings were common...if there's a way to be rid of them...

from what i can tell, the only way i'm going to feel better is to sit her down and get her to understand just how much the affair damaged me, how angry i am that she didn't shut this guy down fast, and how important it is to me that when this happens in the future (and it will.....there are plenty of single guys/girls who have no problem at all hitting on the married) that she shut it down hard. 

i guess i want it to be evident to everyone else (as it's evident to me) that she's in a happy marriage, loves me, etc, etc...assuming that's the case.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Your feelings are that of a betrayed husband. Which is correct...because you are a betrayed husband.

The mistake you're making is you're BEHAVIOR is of a non-betrayed trusting husband.

She's not taking enough responsibility. Every emotion and feeling you're going through...SHE CREATED. SHE NEEDS TO DEAL WITH IT. If she was TRULY remorseful, she'd be more protective of your marriage than you are. She'd shut down this predator. 

That's what's REALLY bothering you. Her inaction and passive attitude is showing you that she doesn't really care about what happened in the past, and that hurts you. You know it in your gut, but you don't want to face it. Facing it would require action on your part that puts your marriage in an unstable place. But it's a NECESSARY place.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

StuckInAL said:


> ...after about 8 yrs of marriage, she cheated. first time was with a "friend" of mine. one night stand. 2nd time was with a co-worker.
> ....
> flash forward to today,...a comment i noticed on her phone from a coworker. i've always thought this guy was a bit too friendly (shoulder rubs for all the woman at work , "popping" their backs, etc), but feel that he went over the line when he offered to let my wife "practice" earning beads in preparation for a trip we made to New Orleans.
> 
> ...


So your 2 time cheating wife allows this latest "office-player" to massage her shoulders, crack her back, and essentially put his hands on her body (because HELLO, McFLY...that's what he is doing),

...and she adds him on Facebook, and plays games with him online

...and she pretends to be oblivious to his flirty comments 

Bro, you should be going nuclear right now, not worrying about being "too concerned about nothing". First of all, I would be LIVID with my wife for not blowing this up herself. Next, I would contact this guys wife with the info you have, and finally I would approach him and tell him to keep his fawking hands off my wife, and if you find one more flirty comment from him you'll make sure he regrets it for the rest of his life. Tell him you don't mind going back to prison.

Seriously though, I don't agree with posters who think your wife handled this right. She shouldn't be gaming with him, chatting to him, Facebook friends with him, and you shouldn't be the one to have to tell her this. 

If I was you, I would have lost it by now. What exactly are you afraid of? By that, I mean what is it inside you that makes you hesitant to stand-up for what you believe is a huge slap in the face? This chick has already broken your heart twice before, and when she allows chit like this to happen UNCHECKED, of course you will have horrible feelings.

When she is hit on, however subtle, she needs to check that chit, right then and there...and then promptly tell you about it. She doesn't get that...at all! 

*You want to keep going down this road of pain for the rest of your life, or do you want to man-up and tell her what it has to be for YOU to continue with her.*

No shoulder rubs from dudes, no games with dudes, no chatting/texting dudes, no Facebooking flirty dudes...Like Butch in Pulp Fiction, she lost all her LA privileges.

Can't believe after she cheated 2wice you have to even go there, but you definitely do. I think you must have swept it under the rug a little in order for her to think this kinda crap is kosher, either that or she has some major fawkin boundary and character flaws. If the latter is true, good luck...you're gonna need it.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

stuckinal said:


> ...
> From what i can tell, the only way i'm going to feel better is to sit her down and get her to understand just how much the affair damaged me, how angry i am that she didn't shut this guy down fast, and how important it is to me that when this happens in the future (and it will.....there are plenty of single guys/girls who have no problem at all hitting on the married) that she shut it down hard. ...


bingo!


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

She definitely needs to tell this workplace wolf to knock it off, in NO uncertain terms.  Those kinds of inappropriate comments need to be addressedl. If ignored, the guy will think it's ok, and will move on to "other activities."


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Stuck, 
You indicated a few times in your thread that your wife lost a fair amount of weight, people noticed, and she cheated on you with 2 different guys. What kind of shape are you in? Were you always more fit than your wife until recently, or are you in the overweight category? 

I'm not one to subscribe to the theories within MMSLP, the alpha/beta labels or the hypergamous nature of women, etc... But one thing I do agree with is the sex rank concept. I don't think a guy has to ALWAYS be higher on the scale than his wife in order for the marriage to be happy. However, I think the happiest marriages are ones where two people are largely compatible. If your wife has lost a lot of weight, and you haven't whipped yourself into shape, then IMHO that will be a problem over the long term.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> *then tell herrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!*


^ This ^
Don't just tell us -- tell *her* everything that you are feeling. It is either important to her what you feel, or it isn't. What another guy does or doesn't say to her isn't important. Whether she cares enough about what you think and feel to do something about it is,


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

@plan9 we were both overweight for several years. she lost alot of weight which was a factor in our rocky patch. after we reconciled; i also lost a ton of weight. neither of us are "cut" by any means, but we are much healthier than we once were.

@tulsy some of your observations are over simplifcations. she is facebook friends with all of her coworkers...there are several guys she's friends with that are no issue at all. she plays words w/friends with dozens of people. she's been playing scrabble type games for over a decade. these activities aren't being undertaken b/c of the infidelity. im only afraid of over reacting and being "that guy" who can't get on with my life/marriage.

i know it sounds like i'm defending her or her actions; but all i really want is an accurate potrayal of my situation. There's been over 6 years of nothing "off" at all in our relationship...nothing..nada..zilch.

her affairs both happend at roughly the same time.....from my perspective it was almost one horrendous event. 

this revelation that she was very unhappy...a huge blow up fight...she runs off to an ONS with a "friend" of mine...then we suffer through several weeks of very very rocky marriage...she hooks up w/coworker....we decide to work it out..go through months of reconciliation...and have been pretty solid since...again, this is a very abbreviated timeline, but that's the rough chain of events.

@2xloser i think that's the one take away from this crazy thread....is that i really need to talk with her and try to get her to understand just how big an impact our past is having (and will have) on how these situations make me feel and just see how she processes that.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

StuckInAL said:


> @warlock she confessed b/c we had a big blowout and she took off...met up w/the friend...had the ONS. it was really rocky time for us both. i'm not saying i'm perfect at all and she definately admits to wrong doing. The coworker i found out about much later. after we reconciled she opted out of the blue to come clean about everything. i had no idea. it was a short fling thing...i think the reason that it came to light is b/c he made some waaay off base pass at her.
> 
> the coworker story is that they had a fling....it was before we started serious reconciliation. once we decided to salvage the marriage, she told him it was a one time thing...it's over..etc. later down the road he gets married. apparently, he was engaged during their tryst (quality guy). she thought fine..ok..we don't work closely together and he's married now. so no need to "worry" about that i guess. well, at some point, he approached her out of the blue and suggested they take a lunch break at his place b/c his newlywed wife woudln't be around. she shut him down and then told me about it and came clean. i really think that's the whole of it b/c she didn't *have* to tell me about the coworker at all really.
> 
> re: lose weight and cheat...im sure it's quite often.


Go get counseling dude. There is so much unresolved angst, rug sweeping and self blame in your posts it is no wonder why those two HIGHLY inappropriate texts bother you.

Let me add, the more you try to be fair, the worse you make your wife look in these posts.


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

@philly i actually considered counseling when these unresolved feelings first popped up; but there are zero counselors in my area that my health insurance will cover. i obviously do carry around alot of unresolved issue and self doubt. i don't think there's a way to make an ex cheating spouse look good on these forums PERIOD. i've lurked for awhile trying to see if anyone else kidna went thru something simliar and the vast majority of posters here seem to lean very heavily towards the "once a cheater, always a cheater" and "get a divorce now" camps. i really wanted to give an accurate representation of the situation. 

i do not think she will cheat again. i do not think she's actively doing anything wrong other than just being a bit oblivious to my feelings. i've not really made my feelings known to her...other than some offhand comments. again, this all kinda came up within the last few days. my plan is to sit down with her and discuss the situation. just lay it all out there.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

StuckInAL said:


> i don't think there's a way to make an ex cheating spouse look good on these forums PERIOD. .


Is this like an ex-drug addict or an ex-thief? She was a cheater, which some will say means she is a cheater PERIOD. Please, don't put me in any "camp" as I look at each story differently. Nowhere, have I suggested she was an evil cheater or that you were a dummy for reconciling. If you want to argue semantics you can, I won't. You guys had a fight, she cheated twice and you reconciled. Cool. 
For me, I see you taking blame for the affair:
1) Blaming the huge fight.
2) Excusing it because you weren't fully reconciled.
3) Blaming yourself for not being perfect.
4) You don't want to be "controlling."

Even good marriages have specific boundaries. There is nothing wrong with affair proofing your marriage. Some men are scared because, you know, you don't want to be "that guy." Can you define "that guy?" It's the controlling one right? The guy who doesn't allow his wife to have any guy friends for no reason right? Honestly, I do not understand where or when having limits on opposite sex friends became a control issue in a marriage. Your wife gave you two reasons and it doesn't matter if it was 7 years ago or yesterday. It isn't like you freaked out about a random post, he asked to see her breasts. Now, why would this trigger you to lurk and post? You have unresolved issues.


Simply put, you NEVER dealt with any of these issues. She had sex, two times, outside of the marriage and her consequences:
1) She kept you.
2) She kept her normal life.
3) She still has multiple male friends.
4) She gets to contact a few outside of work.

Your wife, not you, should know having this type of male contact is inappropriate. Considering one of her affair partners was a co-worker makes her ignorance unfathomable. No, there is NOTHING you can type that would make it sound okay. No, even if you guys didn't discuss boundaries she should know better. You already discussed the "shoe being on the other foot," so she understands and you can't backtrack from your own post. Facebook is not a job requirement and neither are game apps using chat. This means you guys never had a serious boundary talk, especially after the two affairs you know about. 

Think about this as well. We are both guys, we know there are players out in the world. Ignoring works only if you NEVER talk to them or give them the time of day. If he is sending these small inappropriate texts, she says nothing, but continues playing games how does he know he crossed a line?


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

I've lurked on here for awhile just to see if my experiences and feelings were the norm for people in my situation (or similar). I don't think the affair is my fault at all. i do think our marriage being in the dumps a bit before is partly my fault. it takes two to have a quality marriage. I don't excuse the affair in any way. it was wrong period. she knows that....i know that. i guess i'm realizing now that we never really discussed in plain english boundaries. i mean, i guess i kinda figured she'd know what was right and wrong after all the talks about reconciliation. more accurate; i guess it's like...yeah..forever..vs just until things are "good". if this makes sense...

i dont' want to be controlling. like i said, i don't want to live my life with an exit plan. i want to just know things are ok and from teh sound of it; that'll be very very hard regardless of what she does.

this is the first time something like this has happend post reconciliation so it looks like now is the time to figure this out and see what needs to happen for the future. 

i also realize from the discussion here that i must have some unresolved issues to work through.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> ...
> Your wife, not you, should know having this type of male contact is inappropriate.
> ...


Even without the prior infidelity, this kind of attention is bad. The fact that it is known she can't always resist the temptation makes it really, really bad. 

He's asked to see her boobs. He's asked her to go to his place. She knows what he wants. I doubt anyone is that blind. But watch her actions; She's spending her energy to justify and make it 'ok' (and trying to convince you the same) instead of trying to make it 'not ok'. It's going in the wrong direction.


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

He never asked her to goto his place. I think the best course of action for me is to just sit down with her, have a serious conversation, and hash this out. As I've said before, she isn't encouraging this type of behavior, nor does she want this type of attention. I think she does a poor job of dealing with it. Her tact so far has been to ignore it...I'm not sure that's enough for me.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

It isn't enough and don't be soft. If you don't have an idea of your approach, don't talk to her yet.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

StuckInAL said:


> the catalyst was a comment i noticed on her phone from a coworker. i've always thought this guy was a bit too friendly (shoulder rubs for all the woman at work , "popping" their backs, etc), but feel that he went over the line when he offered to let my wife "practice" earning beads in preparation for a trip we made to New Orleans. it was an offhand comment; she did not reply, it seems totally one sided (from him), but i feel that she should shut him down hard.


The reason he felt comforable enough to make that comment to her is because she is sending out a vibe whether she would admit it or not.

I guarantee you she has flirted with him before, thats why he is pushing the envelope.




> she is pretty much playing it off like "he's joking...he didn't mean anything...he's never said anything like that before".


:bsflag:




> any advice? when does this suspicion end?


As long as she is enabling an environment for a guy to want to test the waters with her, it won't end. Hell, even without that text, I'd say it won't end. But that depends on you.

Why is he texting her anyway? She give out her #? Or is it company available info?

Either way, she, one way or another, is enabling his behavior.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

StuckInAL said:


> all communcation from her is totally harmless "crap, i wish i had X tile"..."i'm going to win this game"...etc.


Why does she need to communicate with other men via text at all unless it is all business?

Texting men back in forth like she does, as harmless as you think it is, is not acceptable married woman behavior.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Do you have a monitoring program on her phone?


> i dont' want to be controlling. like i said, i don't want to live my life with an exit plan. i want to just know things are ok and from teh sound of it; that'll be very very hard regardless of what she does.


How is telling your wife she won't text other men except for business controlling? How is it like living with an exit plan?

Please, explain your illogical leaps because you have made your relationship sound extremely one sided. Her affair is controlling your life and actions right now. 

You do understand that taking CONTROL is different than being CONTROLLING?


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Stuck, you have two things going on here:

1. You have not received from your W whatever it is you need to be confident that she will not cheat again. I'll wager she has not expressed remorse for her past infidelity in terms that make clear she understands her responsibility for causing you 7 years of pain. The story of johnAdams and Mrs. John Adams is similar--this book helped them (some 30 years after the fact) and they recommend it:

How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair, Linda J. MacDonald

2. Your W is not doing nearly enough in the current situation. I agree with those posters who say she has to be the one to close this knucklehead down. "No, I will not practice for beads, and I do not expect to hear any more comments from you along those lines. Neither my H nor I think they are appropriate." I cannot tell for sure if your W has been the recipient of these shoulder rubs, but if she has then no more of that. Unfriend on FB. Etc.

These d*****bags do not go away by being ignored. They see opportunity in the fact that they are not actively closed down. You need to tell your W that especially in view of past episodes you need to see her set and enforce clear boundaries.


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

@vellocet i do think she puts out a vibe; but isn't really aware of it. she's funny, playful, and those are traits that first attracted me to her so long ago. we've discussed it and she really doesn't see it. she doesn't understand that some guys (and i say some b/c not all react the way this guy has) misinterpret her attitude. I do not think she's actually flirted with this guy. she's been very open about discussing him in the past and that's not changed. he isn't texting her. again, she palys words w/friends vs him (and about a dozen or so other people) and this communique was sent via the in game trash talk/chat feature. there seems to be no fliting from her at all..and two off comments from him. both times, she completely ignored them and opted to not engage. i honestly think she's just trying to be nice and not be a jerk...but she doen't realize that this really bothers me and is probably just encouraging to him. she's a flirty person by nature...its definately something i've struggled with over the years post reconciliation.

her communication with him has been harmless and game related. she has other male friends (mostly mutual) that aren't an issue at all. 

@philly she doesn't text other men on a regular basis at all...her communication with this one guy is very sporadic, initated by him, and she seems to only engage in game related banter. i really think it's harmless from her side, but i dont' think she realizes that it bothers me...and my point in coming on here is to see if it should...and it seems i was right in feeling off put.

my comment re: exit plan speaks to the fact that i really don't want to live my life constantly thinking of best strategies for divorce. i dont' want to constantly gather evidence. i dont' want to be preparing for the next confrontation. that was another point of my post here. at what point (if any) does one gain full trust after an affair?

i dont' want to control her....i dont' want her to need controlling...but apparently; this other guy does need someone in his life to let him know where boundaries are...it seems i need to explain to my wife that i feel this has stepped over some boundaries for me as well.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You sound to me like you are trying very hard to talk yourself into 'being reasonable,' i.e., not to be alarmed or suspicious about her activities.

The thing is, your concerns are completely valid.

While we all hope that she is lax about these things because she feels completely certain that she wouldn't cheat, her track record means that she simply can't assume that attitude. Especially because of what she has done in the past, she should not:

- chat/text with men on apps of any kind.
- allow 'friendly' shoulder rubs, etc., in the office - or anywhere.
- play online games with other men.
- interact on fb or similar social media with other men.

Given her history, her boundaries should be set higher than yours. She should recognize this and act on it. She should respect your feelings in this matter and should do it because she loves you and wants you to be secure in your marriage.


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

@philat i actually do feel as though she'd never cheat again; thats' the odd thing. she has expressed remorse; but i dont' think she understands just how much damage was done. i really dont' think she'll ever understand. i completely agree on point 2...and she said alot of the same; but seems to have opted to just ignore the guy. she did tell me (after that comment) she'd stay away from him b/c she was taken aback and a little creeped out by it. i just feel that her reaction wasn't quite "angry" enough, you know? 

im kinda gathering my thoughts and looking for the right time to sit down and discuss. 

im actually pretty optomistic that when i lay it out there just how much this bothers me; she'll react a bit differently. initally, i think i played it off a bit and that may have mislead her into thinking it didn't bother me this much.

i really think marriage is a two way street. at 7 yrs post infidelity; i want it to be....i want to have a healthy marraige where i dont' pull the "you cheated card" every few years.


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

@alte dame i think i've just struggled with the fact that things will never be like they were before....but alot of what you (and others) say rings true. i know i've never sat down and "laid down the law" b/c for the past 6 years or so we've been so wrapped up kids...moving...jobs...etc that we haven't had to deal with outside forces. we've both talked about the need to not just be mom and dad; but be a couple that does things...goes out..has fun, but there are things like this that come along with it and our history complicates it.

also, im a very rational person...maybe too rational for this situation.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

StuckInAl, you seem to have 3 issues that you have to deal with:


You need to get the full truth and all necessary (meaning what you need to know) details about what happened. E.g. what happened, where, how many times, what time of the day, how was detection avoided, did she say I love you, did she do anything with him that she did not with you, etc etc. This seems to be an open wound that is festering and you may not realise it. More importantly, without her having to come clean about all of this, she will never really fully understand the devastation she caused. Written timelines, full details when requested etc. will help.

You need to make her understand the consequences of her behaviour and also what boundaries mean, that shutting down other men without you having to ask is really necessary, that the vibes she puts out are inviting and flirty etc. This is a hard one to crack especially if she doesn't believe that she is doing anything wrong. Hence the previous "divulging details" needs to happen first. One way of knowing if she really gets it (in order for her to fix it) is if she then becomes truly remorseful in her actions and proactively does the heavy lifting to help you heal.

You need to blow the POSOM out of the water no matter how flirty your wife is. Inviting her to practice how to earn beads in New Orleans should get him a broken nose in normal circumstances. His wife should also know about this as should his employers.

After all of the 3 above happens, your paranoia will be greatly reduced.


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

@manfromlamancha im beginning to see a trend and it's definately made me look at a few things in a different light. in the past, i always thought knowing the dirty details would make reconciliation harder. as time went on and things improved, i started to feel there was no need to bring up old dirt....open up those old wounds...and make her feel terrible all over again; but it seems the closed wounds are actually festering and spreading like a cancer. 

2 is going to be tough....it's akin to women finding funny men attractive...how to turn off the funny? i think you are right in that it's more a case of her needing to recognize when guys are being a bit too friendly...again...6 yrs...this is the only time this has happened..so i think this is the litmus test and i want to make sure i handle this right

im beginning to think num 3 is overdue for this guy.


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

I ALSO WANT TO ADD...

thanks to everyone for the advice, thoughts, experiences...you have no idea how cathartic this has been


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

manfromlamancha said:


> StuckInAl, you seem to have 3 issues that you have to deal with:
> 
> 
> You need to get the full truth and all necessary (meaning what you need to know) details about what happened. E.g. what happened, where, how many times, what time of the day, how was detection avoided, did she say I love you, did she do anything with him that she did not with you, etc etc. This seems to be an open wound that is festering and you may not realise it. More importantly, without her having to come clean about all of this, she will never really fully understand the devastation she caused. Written timelines, full details when requested etc. will help.
> ...


The main goal of #1 isn't so that you know the details. It's to make her realize the full extent of what she did. To her you didn't seem all that upset at the time so it must not have been that bad. You need to rub her nose in it. She just doesn't get it.


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

@graywolf i really think you are right; but im not sure she'll ever get it...not really. i think the only people who have a remote chance of understand what this is like are those who were also betrayed.

at the time of the affair; i was definately very very upset. we had a very rocky 8 weeks or so followed up with months of time reconciling....but that was over 6 years ago. we've moved very far in those 6 years.

if you are refering to the off putting message; i think i was more shocked than anything...as was she...and now i've just been kinda circling, waiting, to see how she'd handle it.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

StuckInAL said:


> @graywolf i really think you are right; but im not sure she'll ever get it...not really. i really think the only people who have a remote chance of understand what this is like are those who were also betrayed.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey stuck--------you keep stating--you do not think she will cheat again----I am very sure---you did not think she would cheat when she had her double tryst----so you need to get this idea that she will never cheat again---and banish it----THE PAST IS A PREDICTOR OF THE FUTURE------she may not cheat, but then again----had she not told you, you never would have known of her 2nd tryst, she is full well capable of cheating if the situation is right

What needs to be done is that this guy HAS HIT ON HER, whether she likes it or not------all contact with him STOPS AS OF YESTERDAY----game playing is gone----facebook with him is gone---and if he approaches her at work----her response needs to be harsh, and nasty---such as "I am happily married---stay the F away from me"

You are not being controlling----YOU ARE PROTECTING YOUR MGE, and YOU ARE PROTECTING, AND INSURING A HAPPY FUTURE FOR YOUR CHILD

What this is about, is her accountability, for what she did----she never gets the free pass---this will always be there, and she needs to do what is necessary to make sure your mge IS NEVER VIOLATED AGAIN

as to whether you will ever forget---you probably will not-----and actually it will become worse once you retire, and are with her 24/7/365----as you will be with her all the time----with NOTHING BUT LOTS OF TIME TO THINK ABOUT ALL KINDS OF THINGS


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## sammy7111 (Apr 19, 2014)

You well never really get over it and you know you can never really trust her again but with that said you can learn to live with it and you can learn to coupe with it but good luck
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

jnj express said:


> Hey stuck--------you keep stating--*you do not think she will cheat again*----I am very sure---*you did not think she would cheat when she had her double tryst*----so you need to get this idea that she will never cheat again---and banish it----*THE PAST IS A PREDICTOR OF THE FUTURE*------she may not cheat, but then again---*-had she not told you, you never would have known of her 2nd tryst*, she is full well capable of cheating if the situation is right
> 
> What needs to be done is that *this guy HAS HIT ON HER, whether she likes it or not*------all contact with him STOPS AS OF YESTERDAY----game playing is gone----facebook with him is gone---and if he approaches her at work----*her response needs to be harsh, and nasty---such as "I am happily married---stay the F away from me"*
> 
> ...


Couldn't have put it better myself. For me true remorse is never getting so comfortable that when a man posts so many likes or comments she doesn't see/or care that it might be hurting her husband. The fact she didn't really shut him down is a major concern, as you say her "friendly nature" but it was this same friendly nature that allowed two men to bang her..no?

7 years in the grand scheme of things is not a long time at all..as you well know. All it took was one man's comment and it sent you over the edge again.

I really don't give a d*mn innocent or not. Killers move in silence. He's friendly always joking, always touching women (kino-a tactic used by pick up artists) but he's already sent an inappropriate message, it looks harmless but the sexual context is there. As more trust (rapport) is established, he can ramp up the kino and the sexual tension and when she's ready move onto seduction.

Do not rug sweep! You need to sit her down and get the details of what happened those two encounters and why she did it. You may not know it but she may already be following a path she's tread before.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

StuckInAL said:


> @manfromlamancha im beginning to see a trend and it's definately made me look at a few things in a different light. in the past, i always thought knowing the dirty details would make reconciliation harder. as time went on and things improved, i started to feel there was no need to bring up old dirt....open up those old wounds...and make her feel terrible all over again; but it seems the closed wounds are actually festering and spreading like a cancer.
> 
> 2 is going to be tough....it's akin to women finding funny men attractive...how to turn off the funny? i think you are right in that it's more a case of her needing to recognize when guys are being a bit too friendly...again...6 yrs...this is the only time this has happened..so i think this is the litmus test and i want to make sure i handle this right
> 
> im beginning to think num 3 is overdue for this guy.



The wound is still festering because you never knew what you were forgiving. Also, coming clean with details of the affair also helps the WS because, then there would be no secrets left.


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

it looks like i've made a huge mistake by not making clear just how much this comment thing bothered me. while i do think knowing all the messy details could have made reconciliation harder; it does seem that its caused some unresolved issues for me internally. i found out about the coworker quite awhile after we reconciled and it seems i kinda swept it under the rug and that affair is probably the one that hurts the most. because it wasn't just a ONS and it was kept from me all during the reconciliation.

i've slept on it and i really do not think she'd never cheat again...in our current circumstance. however,things change....and one of my goals here is to set us up to have a long lasting marriage that survives through the ups and the downs. i think i've let several years of ups prevent me from being worried about the downs that are surely to come.

@bobsimmons what you said about "following a path tread before" struck a nerve....i think if we dont' pay attention; we can all slip back into old routines...old habits...old ways of thinking that may not be the most healthy.


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

StuckInAL said:


> i found out about the coworker quite awhile after we reconciled and it seems i kinda swept it under the rug and that affair is probably the one that hurts the most. because it wasn't just a ONS and it was kept from me all during the reconciliation.


I can understand how the rug sweeping happened. 

After much turmoil you were on the road to recovery. It’s like having a big vacation. Your bags are packed; you made all the plans and reservations. You are on the road miles from home and out of the blue your wife tells you that that she may have left the water running. 

Do you go back home? No, you just continue on your way and try and put the running water out of your mind.

Tell your wife the truth. You didn’t want to set back all the progress you made with R so you basically never dealt with the coworker. She was forgiven for affair #1 and she slipped in affair #2 for free. Remind her that #2 worse because she went back for more. 

OP, your previous post indicates that you have made excellent progress and I think you have a good grasp of yourself and the situation. Good luck.


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

@greywolf i think you are 100% correct...num 2 was swept under the rug and it really does hurt the most.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

thummper said:


> She definitely needs to tell this workplace wolf to knock it off, in NO uncertain terms.  Those kinds of inappropriate comments need to be addressedl. If ignored, the guy will think it's ok, and will move on to "other activities."


Not only should she shut this down.... She needs to prove that she's a changed woman with changed boundaries at work.

There are women who'd go straight to HR and report this guy for what it is: unwanted sexual harassment. Tell her that you *EXPECT* that this guy is reported. Tell her that you expect her to be one of "those women" now. It sends a message to EVERYONE at work that she is off limits to this kind of crap. 

If she does that then she's a truly changed woman. If she refuses, then she's liking the attention at some level. She's enjoying getting it, and given her previous work affair I wouldn't rule out her failing at some time in the future. As you said, you're marriage is up. Well, what if she's flirting like this and you're down? Goes to work after a bad fight? Are you sure she wouldn't repeat? 

For me I'd be thinking that refusing to report would be a deal breaker.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Because she has a history of cheating his behaviour is harming you.

So she is wrong. It is not harmless.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

I just want to make my other post clear. You said she uses the game chat feature with the "fishing flirty" coworker and other guys. Those game chat conversations work just like texts, the big difference is they do not show up on phone records. So, I said texting because the really are the same thing in my head. You have convinced yourself the chat is only for trash talk because that's what you have seen. We have read and seen cheaters use it to the detriment of their marriage. Again, I am not saying she is cheating, but you now have an example of how the chat can be used inappropriately.


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

@philly after much consideration; i really think this guy is a total POS and probably uses the app for fliting non stop. my wife doesn't...the majority of her games are against other women or mutual guy friends. i believe the chat feature is there for trash talk by design. im relative sure jynga wasn't trying to develop a great cheater txt app.

the take away for me is that the chat feature can def be dangerous in this (and apparently many other apps).


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

StuckInAL said:


> im relative sure jynga wasn't trying to develop a great cheater txt app.


Arrrrggggh a red herring.Yes, it was designed for communication, just like email, texts, instant messaging, Facebook, Myspace, Instagram, paper, snail mail, cell phones or any form of communication. The creation is an irrelevant point to my comment. They can be used in a terrible fashion, which you agree with below. 


> the take away for me is that the chat feature can def be dangerous in this (and apparently many other apps).


Yep, this is what I and other have repeatedly stated. So, you do get it and that's all I've been trying to impress on you.

Do you, or your wife, have an EAP aka Employee Assistance Program? They tend to offer 3-6 visits for free. I am not talking marriage counseling, I think you need individual counseling. There are some guilt issues and/or fear coating some of your posts.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Stuck, it seems as if your responses are more conversational than anything, serving to keep your thread discussion alive.

What are you going to *do*?


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Good point. 

Do you have a game plan ready for when you have your discussion?


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

@philly i've not gone the EAP route; but i do think indie couseling wouldn't be a bad idea. 

@philat i plan to sit down and discuss with her. this whole thing (as these things seem to do) started a short 6 days ago. i've been waiting to see how she would handle it, if my feelings would dissipate, etc...etc..but i think i've reach the point where my feelings are valid, i need to address them with her directly, and my feelings aren't just going to go away.

at this point, i'm really only responding to direct questions. i think i've learned alot/enough and have a pretty clear plan on how to proceed.

i do have a question to the group; has anyone had their significant other read threads like this? or encouraged them to go on boards like this to see how these things play out for others?

im curious if seeing how other people feel would "help" w/the "it's not just me...." argument. I've not encountered that with my wife yet; "it's just you...why are you acting this way...etc...etc", but curious as a pre cursor.


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

@philly i do....im a very rational and logical person... i tend to jot down talking points so that i can get everything out in the open at once. there are alot of really good points that have been brought out in this thread that made me rethink some decisions i've made in the past. there are several recurring themes to the advice i've been given....so i think i have some good points to dicuss and i've given thought to ways i can present my feelings, what i expect, and what i think we need moving forward.

i am nervous simply because we are in a good place overall and i hate to rock the boat; but i'd rather rock the boat a little now than let the ship capsize and sink later.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

I have and it helped, but I'd almost always say no now. I showed her EA and posts about opposite gender friends. Also, I showed her posts as to why length of the contact matters and why a small part of me will always believe it went physical. Nope, I found zero proof and dug incessantly for about 6 months. 

Still, I did it after the confrontation and the setting of new boundaries not before or during my searches. It was about 3 months later, when she pulled the "it's not just me, it's just you...why are you acting this way" crap. 

I found an EA thread that was so close to my story it was ridiculous. Sad thing was he found proof of an affair later. I showed my wife that one and it freaked her out. Basically, I used itthread like an over head with bullet points.
"You did this, this, this, this, the length was similar and she actually had sex. So, not, it isn't just me and I'm not the only one that acted this way."


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> I found an EA thread that was so close to my story it was ridiculous. Sad thing was he found proof of an affair later. I showed my wife that one and it freaked her out. Basically, I used itthread like an over head with bullet points.


Phillybeff, what thread was that? PM me if you like. Thanks.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

A rational and logical person would look at the patterns in human behavior and draw conclusions based on the patterns. These represent your data for your rational analysis.

So...there are distinct patterns to infidelity. Based on those, you can make judgments about people who are engaging in infidelity, as well as the people they are hurting with their behavior.

The people here have seen the patterns many times over and this is why they are advising you the way they are. They know that your WW needs to go the extra mile to maintain strong boundaries, and she needs to do this for the rest of your lives together. She needs to do this out of respect and love, and you need to expect it as your due. You have given her the gift of a reconciliation and she must do her part to honor you for it.

You should not have to feel hesitant or fearful or self-conscious about expecting transparency from her. Transparency is your due.

You should not have to ask for respect for your feelings in this. Respect is your due.

You should not have to police her after all these years and feel abashed about your sensitivity and questions. She should know that she must police herself. That, too, is your due.

Respect, honor, love - she owes you these things. She should not take anything for granted. You have earned the right to never go hat in hand to her for any of it.

This, in my opinion, is what a rational analysis would tell you.


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## Hartbrok (Jul 16, 2013)

StuckInAL said:


> i think i want her to be the one to just say "hey buddy...back off" without me having to harp and complain about it.


She should be doing that, *without* you asking for it. She's not, and that says all you need to know. She enjoys/seeks the attention, and it will, (or already has), lead to more infidelity. 

My opinion, based on experience.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Philat said:


> Phillybeff, what thread was that? PM me if you like. Thanks.


I'll get it to you. I've read so many they kind of blend together.


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

first, i want to thank everyone here again for all the posts. every comment was useful in its own way. this experience has, again, been very cathartic and therapeutic.

i had a very detailed chat with my wife last night. i laid out there how i was feeling...why i believe i'm feeling this way...etc...etc. she 100% capitulated on all fronts. i asked the uncomfortable questions i never asked before....most i had guessed the answers to. some answers were a bit worse than i wanted to hear, most were actually quite better news that i expected. i hope having the whole picture about affair #2 will allow me to put that to rest and heal that wound. i think the main points i took away from our conversation are:

1. she really didn’t (doesn't?) understand just how damaging the affair was to me. again, i don't think she ever can ever really know without being in my shoes; and that's just not something that will happen.

2. she acknowledges that this unwanted off putting comment from this guy was probably due to her personality. she's just a super fun, bubbly, exciting person to be around. it's not something she can turn off. you can't make your smile less infectious...however, she does think she needs to understand that while her intentions aren't to be overly flirtatious; some people may misinterpret her being nice/conversational as advances and she needs to be cognizant of that.

3. the reason why she didn’t' just shut this guy down super hard and went the "ignore it" route (vs how she handles guys at bars/dance clubs/etc where she flat out shoots them down immediately) is simply b/c he is a coworker and didn't want there to be any awkwardness at work. she (and i) feel he would play it off as "hey i'm just joking...id' never seriously hit on you...". which, office gossip being what it is, could lead to some really uncomfortable conversations at work. 

4. she agreed to completely cut off all communication with this guy....and does see that she needs to be more aggressive at just shutting down this kinda stuff in the future...doesn't matter if it's overly friendly coworkers, some random on the street, or the husband of a friend...anyone. it doesn't matter.

5. i told her that the only way i'm going to feel 100% secure is if she’s' "the chick that has zero interest in any other guy period"...and *everyone* has to know that.she completely understands. she has no interest in other guys but we aren't going to be the "normal" couple..its never going to ok for there to be any flirting from anyone even harmless, etc,etc. we know couples (everyone does) that are a bit flirty....and it's probably b/c they've never gone thru a period of infidelity and that's just not us anymore and it won't be ever again due past actions.

6. i told her that since we started dating when we were both so young; neither of us really had to deal with "adult" men/women hitting on us....we both are a bit oblivious to it. the problem for her is that with our past; she gets no slack in this regard. she fully acknowledged that. while this guy may, in fact, be totally harmless; we don’t' know that and she should err on the side of caution and assume that this may have been a harmless (albeit inappropriate joke) she should handle it as if he's seriously hitting on her and respond accordingly....which, again...she agreed to.

7. we did have a talk about words w/friends being a cheater app of choice...which was news to me until this thread. she also didn't really think about how the chats aren't logged..they disappear...they aren’t on any phone bill...etc...and was also surprised. we had a talk about how this guy interacts vs everyone else. yes, he does chat waaay more than anyone else in game.....yes, he does seem to initiate contact with her in any semi-private/subtle way he can (likes on facebook..little comments here...)...and yes, he could very well be some total perv who cheats on his wife. it was interesting; once i kinda laid out this point by point explanation of why he seems like a freaking stalker to me; it was like a light went off and she acknowledged how it could be seen that way...especially with our history. the gist from me was "yeah, this guy could be harmless...but with our history, im going to assume he (and every guy like him) isn't...and you need to act accordingly". she agreed w/me 100%

i know i'm leaving some stuff out; but i think those are the real high points.

one interesting thing is that she immediately admitted that she could tell something was bothering me. i noticed that she was being a little more attentive/affectionate (she was already...and has been for the last 6/7 yrs...). i told her that i noticed...but the best way to describe it is..."i know you are trying to help me...but you don't know how to help me...so we need to talk about some things so you have a better understanding of how i feel and what i need for you." which to the posters here is probably a convo about setting boundaries. 

i also realize that i have to be more forward with her in regards to things that really really bother me. in the past, i'd make sly little jokes or sarcastic comments to relay i was bothered or annoyed by things and usually that worked (oh, i guess we are folding shirts inside out now around here, ha ha ha)...but things have changed and our marriage is something we both take much more seriously than that.

a few weeks ago, we decided as a couple to start transitioning a bit from just being constant/full time mom and dad (we have a 3 yr old and 4 yr old daughter) to being a couple too...so going out and spending more time with friends and all that. i think this shift is a reason some of this came to the surface; but i think it's been good. i know our marriage will evolve and change over time. in our conversation last night, we both agreed that we have to be aware of these changes and make sure we both are working towards keeping our marriage strong.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

StuckInAL said:


> 1. she really didn’t (doesn't?) understand just how damaging the affair was to me. again, i don't think she ever can ever really know without being in my shoes; and that's just not something that will happen.


Ask her to read this...

Amazon.com: How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful eBook: Linda MacDonald, Agnes Lawless, Bryan Hall, Connie Riggio: Kindle Store


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## TheFlood117 (Mar 24, 2013)

"any advice? when does this suspicion end? am i just damaged goods?"

First, you are not damage goods. So lets get that out of the way. 


Alright, now your suspicions will cease when you divorce her and put her in the rear-view mirror and move on with life. 

7 years in.... Yeah, and you're still having issues. Time to move on. You don't trust her. And nor should you. 

Serial cheater (2 than you know of). She will never change. NEVER.

Why did you stay with her? 


And please, don't give me the "it's for the children. Won't somebody think of the children" type of thing. 

Why did YOU stay with a serial cheating woman???


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

@theflood i have no interest in divorce. we were married for 6 yrs...had a massive marriage breakdown...wife had a ONS and a short affair with a coworker during a tumultuous 3 month period...that was 7 years ago.

i stayed with her because i love her and we both decided to try and make the marriage work. im not a perfect man. i was a terrible husband then....not an excuse for what she did and i was by no means so bad a husband that i deserved to be cheated on.

i appreciate your comments, but i think you are bit out of date with my story and i do not agree that people never change. i know i have over the last 7 years and i'd wager if you examine yourself; you'd see that you've changed too. eating habits? music preferences? etc...etc.. people do change. it's hard to change some base instincts, sure, but people do change. 

one of the keys for reconciliation for my wife and i has been our willingness to make positive change in our lives.


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## TheFlood117 (Mar 24, 2013)

StuckInAL said:


> @theflood i have no interest in divorce. we were married for 6 yrs...had a massive marriage breakdown...wife had a ONS and a short affair with a coworker during a tumultuous 3 month period...that was 7 years ago.
> 
> i stayed with her because i love her and we both decided to try and make the marriage work. im not a perfect man. i was a terrible husband then....not an excuse for what she did and i was by no means so bad a husband that i deserved to be cheated on.
> 
> ...


Not the type of change I meant. Too each their own. Good luck. 

Before I go- "it's hard to change some base instincts". 


So what do you think is your wife's "base instinct" when it comes to fidelity, relationships and sex????


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

@theflood i believe my wife wants to be in a happy committed relationship with a partner who loves her and cares about her; as we all do. i think most women's sexual desire/drive is deeply rooted in their emotions. 

before her infidelity, we were "together" for 10 years (dated a long time)...all totaled; we've been together for 18 years. in those first 10 years, we had zero problems of this sort. 

during our major marriage breakdown, she went through, what i believe to be, a period of indentity crisis/self doubt/etc...there were alot of changes going on in our lives, you can read through all the posts if you like, but the highlights for her were gastric bypass weight loss surgery that resulted in *alot* of attention from guys she'd never gotten before, an emotionally and physically distant husband (i was working two full time jobs while she finished school...so i was out of the house on average around 76 hrs a week...so when you factor in sleep; i wasn't around much for about 7 months), and single "party girl" friends that were a negative influence on her. again, no excuse for what she did; but factors none the less.

now a question for you, do you think any relationship can be saved post infidelity?


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

I thought it was a pretty positive post from Stuck, with a wife for all intensive purposes apart from a text from a POS has been doing fairly well with owning her issues.

They had a good talk, sorted out and promised to fix their issues, so where is the divorce advice coming from?

Stuck, 7 years hence, you're still hypervigilant. You brought the hammer down when the issue arose and your wife to her credit has owned up and promised to shut this guy down. Hopefully moving forward she'll be more aware of the kind of boundaries she needs to continually put up when it comes to guys both in and out of work, so good luck to you both.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Ok, only 7 years since the last infidelity ? I was somehow assuming that it was much more longer than that..



> i was working two full time jobs while she finished school...so i was out of the house on average around 76 hrs a week...so when you factor in sleep; i wasn't around much for about 7 months


No excuse like you, this information only makes it worse.. I hope she really is making up to you these last 7 years because what she did was extremely sh!tty. You weren't available because you were were working 2 jobs for the family and that was the time she chose to cheat ? While I have no idea about your finances, I would assume that you were (atleast partly) paying for her school and her gastric bypass surgery. 

And one of the guy she f*cked was out of spite for you..These are pretty bad red flags. No wonder you felt as such at the beginning of the thread. And mistakes not learnt from can always be repeated


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

@warlock school was being paid for by her student loans...we later finanaced my bachelor's together as well. her gastric bypass was actually paid for by health insurance; but it's not really germane.

7 yrs since the only issue in our marriage...we dated 4 years...were married for 6...had a really rough 6-12mo and have been reconciled for about 7 years.

she cheated after she had finished school....but the time spent out of the house definately drove a wedge between us. time away (for any reason) is time away. everyone will agree that what she did then was completely sh!tty...she's a very different person now (as am i).

i don't think she cheated to spite me.....much more involved than that. i dont' think there's a way for me to relay a full picture of the events then or the situation now in a way that you'll understand; and thats ok for me. 

again, thanks to everyone for the advice/information. i think i've learned alot about things like boundaries...and triggers...and that my feelings are normal and justified.

after the discussions we've had lately (last night and this morning) im pretty comfortable with the results.

something that was hit on in a comment from page one is "talk to her!!!" and that was 100% correct. talking to her and getting her to understand a bit more about where i am coming from and how much some things really bother me made all the difference in the world.

i came for some perspective and i've rec'd that in droves.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

StuckInAL said:


> @warlock school was being paid for by her student loans..


I read this and my first thought was "wow there's a school for everything!"


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

StuckInAL,

A woman suffers, genuinely suffers when the relationship is put on the back burner. Even if it is by mutual agreement.

Stay the course! I wish you well!
Take care!


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

I know you want this to work---you want it to work so bad---you yourself are giving your wife excuses------

She does not get a free pass---yet you are basically giving her one----then on the other hand---your sub-conscious is also playing hardball, and her cheating won't go away-----WHY---because she CHOSE TO CHEAT, and both of you are justifying it with you being gone at work--------and down deep it just keeps burning you up!!!!!

There are those who overwork, and cheating goes on---and there are MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of mge's where there is overwork---the other partner understands why, and DOES NOT CHEAT----or comes to the overworked partner, and states his/her concerns----your wife did none of this----SHE GAVE HERSELF TO TWO OTHER MEN---one of which you knew nothing of for a long while

now present day---a guy hits on her, and she does NOT SHUT HIM DOWN, AND SHE CONTINUES TO/IS ALLOWED TO CONTINUE CONVERSING WITH HIM ELECTRONICALLY

She is a known cheater---whether you like it or not---facts are facts----SHE HAS CHEATED TWICE, AND SHE ACCEPTS FLIRTATIONS-------

What do you think is gonna happen when the 2 of you hit another rough patch---for you will ---ALL MGE'S DO

You need some specific boundaries and consequences---WHERE ARE THEY AND WHAT ARE THEY


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Stuck

Glad you had that convo with your wife.

The key to any long term marriage is communication. Open & honest communication.

I only have one question for you.

Have you ever made it clear to your wife what will happen if she ever strays again? What the consequence will be?

HM


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

@jnj i've tried to not give my excuses for my wife's behavior...it's hard to make excuses for the inexcusable. i don't think people in happy marriages decide out of the blue to cheat. i don't think infidelity is ever justified in a relationship. i do think that a bad marriage isn't usually the fault of just one person. i do believe a bad marriage is a major factor in the buildup to an affair.

also, from my perspective, it isn't that i want this to work so bad....it *is* working.

i don’t think this burns me up deep down......the reason for my post was a quest for insight into some of my feelings and what was appropriate/correct based on our history. I've taken the information here and we've discussed things in detail and i really do think it's been a major help.

she has shut down guys hard that hit on her in the past....i think the disconnect for me was her "hit on me meter" being a little less sensitive than mine. example:

1. a guy approaches her at a bar while she's out w/ the girls....attempts to grind up on her...she flat out laughs at him, points at her wedding ring, and tells him she's very not interested..(she's actually done this both when i'm around and when i'm not...verified by mutual friends)

2. a guy makes an off color joke...she perceives him as totally harmless and just ignores it...doesn't laugh...giggle..no smiley faces back..just ignores it.

my discomfort was with guy num 2 not getting a hard "back the hell up"....after our conversation, she gets it. she "gets it" as much as she can. the point i made in our conversation is "it doesn't matter if you think it's harmless...i don't. it makes me uncomfortable and that should be enough for you to take action"...her reply..."you are 100% correct...im sorry, i didn't realize how bad it bothered you...i thought it was out of place, but the guy is just "like that with everyone" ...but if it bothers you at all...i have no problem with totally ceasing to communicate with him at all".


@happyman yes, we've discussed what would happen if she stepped out....in that our marriage would not survive another major incident like the past.

understand that there really aren't any secrets between us...im not oblivious to the past at all. my real questions were re: if this will ever end (no), what can i do to feel secure (talk to my wife and set boundaries), etc....

i know all the passwords to all her accounts...she has no problem with me going thru the phone bill...her text messages..her emails...her facebook...etc...

RE: what do i think will happen when we hit a rough patch in the future? like all couples, i think we'll try our best to work through it using our past history and experiences to help guide the way. 

the first time you hit ice, you slip...you slide....often you wreck. the next time you hit a patch of ice, you know to steer into the spin, avoid braking, and tend to make it thru unscathed, maybe with your nerves a little rattled.


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

an interesting post script to all this....after our initial conversation, which was two days or so ago...she ended the words with friends game w/the overly nice coworker...

he immediately tried to start up a new game....she declined

he attempted to start a new game a 2nd time....this time with multiple messages "c'mon..play....don't be mad that i keep beating you...etc..."

and attempted to message her via facebook to ask why she wouldn't play. she replied to the first attempted new game w/decline...and told him that she didn't have any interest in playing vs him.

the interesting thing to me is just how aggressive he is is in attempting to engage her in chat. it was pretty mind boggling...it was almost like watching a child pitch a fit. i mean this guy was trying to message her on mothers day (while we were spending time as a family) trying to goad her into playing words w/friends w/him....

now, if i can just find a way to beat her in words with friends consistently...hmmm...


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

StuckInAL said:


> a bit eye opening for her.
> 
> she was very surprised...it was almost like watching a child pitch a fit. i mean this guy was trying to message her on mothers day (while we were spending time as a family) trying to goad her into playing words w/friends w/him....


Excellent!

Some husbands have taken their wives to PUA websites to help them see the game. It can be an eye opener.

Woman accept attention and compliments from one another, it is just part of being supportive, it is how they are wired.

If they assume a male acquaintance has the same motives it makes them vulnerable.

A creep can creep up on them. Personally I think they need to understand where the lines are, so it raises a flag.

Touching, suggestive talk, put downs, complaining about their GF or wife, mirroring, asking marriage related questions to draw out a complaint about the husband. I sure there are many more than I know about, but they all lead to an inappropriate intimacy by moving the boundary, ever so little.

It sounds like you both value the relationship. I don't like awkward situations but your wife seems willing to face them to reassure you. 

That is a good place to be.

Take care!


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Gastric bypass. That is usually not necessary, unless a person has real problems controlling food intake.

Was she very overweight when you first met?


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

@longwalk necessary? probably not every time. in both our cases; medical doctors and health insurance providers (ins. paid for the procedure) decided it was.

shes' very short < 5' so it doesnt' take much weight to be "overweight"....i was always chunky as a kid/teenager...and i think the issue was the sedintary lifestyle people take on as adults vs the active lifestyle teenagers seem to have. if you go from the hustle bustle of highschool/college constantly going out and doing things to sitting in an office cubicle or at a nurses' desk all day; it's easy to pack on some lbs.

we are both much slimmer than before...we exercise regularly (she much more than me) and are alot healthier.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

_the interesting thing to me is just how aggressive he is is in attempting to engage her in chat. it was pretty mind boggling and a bit eye opening for her. she was very surprised...it was almost like watching a child pitch a fit. i mean this guy was trying to message her on mothers day (while we were spending time as a family) trying to goad her into playing words w/friends w/him...._

Your w just "broke up" with him and he's reacting like a BF who has been dumped. If she can see this in that context then her eyes have indeed been opened.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

StuckInAL said:


> @jnj i've tried to not give my excuses for my wife's behavior...it's hard to make excuses for the inexcusable. *i don't think people in happy marriages decide out of the blue to cheat.* i don't think infidelity is ever justified in a relationship. i do think that a bad marriage isn't usually the fault of just one person. i do believe a bad marriage is a major factor in the buildup to an affair.


*cough*

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/191762-almost-had-affair.html

Sometimes the trog just gets an itch...


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

StuckInAL said:


> @theflood i have no interest in divorce. we were married for 6 yrs...had a massive marriage breakdown...wife had a ONS and a short affair with a coworker during a tumultuous 3 month period...that was 7 years ago.


 Accepting blame and minimizing, wow, hey if you are happy take care.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

StuckInAL said:


> an interesting post script to all this....after our initial conversation, which was two days or so ago...she ended the words with friends game w/the overly nice coworker...
> 
> he immediately tried to start up a new game....she declined
> 
> ...


He'll likely continue in his efforts to engage her once they're back at work together. Be on the lookout for this, and be prepared to have a talk w/ him _yourself_.


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

@gus interesting link...but i'd argue that a romantically stale marriage with a wife who finds it difficult to kiss her husband does not equal a healthy marriage by any means. for me, i felt off a week or so ago...hinted to the wife...posted here...and then laid it out for her instead of just meandering along.

oh i'm sure he'll attempt to chat her up...we've already talked about it. they dont' work together consistently at all...he works in a diff part of the hospital; but tends to roam around chatting w/people. no idea why he isnt reprimanded for spending work time roaming the halls....

@philly i am and i will...though i'm pretty sure the sentiment isn't genuine. i accept blame for being a bad husband in the past. does that mean i deserved to be cheated on? no. does she think i deserved it and/or drove her to it? no. does she accept full blame for dropping an atom bomb on our life 7 yrs ago? yes. does a day go by when she doesn't regret what she's done? no.....not that she (nor i) dwell on it daily. i don't feel i minimize what she's done in the least; but i refuse to wake every day and be the guy with low slung shoulders becuase his wife cheated in the past. instead, i opt to wake each day and be the guy who wants to work on being a better husband, father, and friend to my wife...while she does the same.

also i'd like to emphasize that my wife never attempted to hide this communcation with him in any way...she has no interest in this guy what so ever...i was fully aware that they are friends at work...that they played words w/friends vs each other (as she does with several other men and women) and have no problem with this...but..the moment this guy (or anyone) step over the line..thats' where the issue popped up. a good conversation....some discussion on what is and is not ok w/me and why i feel this way...and i think we are over this little hiccup. 

it's been really great getting insight on how i feel and why i feel that way from a community of people who understand in a way others cant (and shouldn't have to).


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

I think this guy now thinks he has himself a challenge, and he is gonna stay after your wife till in his mind he wins----that said----as far as electronics go---send a NC letter or E-Mail----as far as the hospital goes---if he does seek her out again----she needs to sharply rebuke him, and also she needs to, at the same time, let him know if her persists she will go to hospital authorities about him----this needs to be done to make him go away, and for your peace of mind


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

No, I don't think it will ever go away. That's why I filed for D from my cheating wife. I knew I couldn't live policing her all the time. She's given you the best reason in the world to never, ever trust her again. That's not your fault or your issue even - it's hers. She murdered your trust - slit its throat while you slept.

And the fact that she's not sensitive to the fact that her relationship with this coworker (or any other man, for that matter) is damaging to you, her AND your marriage is a huge red flag imo.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

StuckInAL said:


> @gus interesting link...but i'd argue that a romantically stale marriage with a wife who finds it difficult to kiss her husband does not equal a healthy marriage by any means. for me, i felt off a week or so ago...hinted to the wife...posted here...and then laid it out for her instead of just meandering along.


OK, but imagine how much better her marriage would be if she hadn't spent the past 3 years in an online EA w/ another man? Or, more specifically, how much better would her marriage be if she'd channeled all of that time and energy into her relationship w/ her husband?

I said this in another thread a while back... Sometimes the only _problem_ within a marriage is that the BS is unable to magically transform himself or herself into the spitting image of the WS's co-worker, boss, best friend's husband/brother/whatever, next door neighbor, or some random person at the bar or on the Internet.

As I said, sometimes the trog just gets an itch and wants to have it scratched by something (or someone) new and unfamiliar.


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

@gus oh yeah, i agree that spending energy on her marriage would have certainly made it stronger...no one will argue against that point. the truth is i bet (assuming she wants her marriage to survive) she'll not make that mistake again. if i could ( or my wife) could go back in time and change things; we would; but we can't. 

we can, however, use the experiences we have now to recognize things like how her time would be better spent working on her marriage than hiding an emotional affair online for 3 years and work hard to not repeat our own mistakes from the past.

we've spent the last 7 yrs learning how to itch each other's scratches....it's probably something we'll spend the rest of our life doing. marriage evolves continually.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Stuck, I'm sorry, and forgive me, but I don't think you are seeing things clearly. I'll address line by line below.



StuckInAL said:


> 2. she acknowledges that this unwanted off putting comment from this guy was probably due to her personality.


But she has cheated before and the 2nd time was with a coworker. If she doesn't realize she needs to tone it down, then she is inviting more of the same. That coupled with the fact that this coworker that texted her probably knows she had an affair and figures she's up for another.




> 3. the reason why she didn’t' just shut this guy down super hard and went the "ignore it" route (vs how she handles guys at bars/dance clubs/etc where she flat out shoots them down immediately) is simply b/c he is a coworker and didn't want there to be any awkwardness at work.


BS. She doesn't have to be nasty to him. She simply needs to say that her husband doesn't appreciate it and that it is not appropriate communication.

And sorry, that is NOT the reason she didn't shut it down.

Also, is she, as a caught cheater, STILL going to bars and clubs? Not only is that borderline inappropriate activity for a married person, it is definitely now inappropriate as a cheater caught.
I hope, if she respects you, that she no longer "parties".





> she (and i) feel he would play it off as "hey i'm just joking...id' never seriously hit on you...". which, office gossip being what it is, could lead to some really uncomfortable conversations at work.



That's how it starts. They test the waters, go fishing for an affair, then if it turns out to be unwanted communication, the sender can say, "Oh I was just joking around"



> 4. she agreed to completely cut off all communication with this guy....and does see that she needs to be more aggressive at just shutting down this kinda stuff in the future...doesn't matter if it's overly friendly coworkers, some random on the street, or the husband of a friend...anyone. it doesn't matter.



Ok, so how are you going to know she will cut off all communication with this guy? And this contradicts her supposed desire to have no office awkwardness.

Is she going to text him back and let you see the reply?




> 5. i told her that the only way i'm going to feel 100% secure is if she’s' "the chick that has zero interest in any other guy period"...and *everyone* has to know that.she completely understands. she has no interest in other guys but we aren't going to be the "normal" couple



Her 2 affairs don't bare that out.




> ..its never going to ok for there to be any flirting from anyone even harmless, etc,etc.


Lets get this out of the way right now. There is no such thing as harmless flirting. Flirting is letting someone else know there is an attraction. Because lets face it, people don't flirt with people to whom they are not attracted, unless its to get something from them.


Stuck, I don't want to sound like doom and gloom here. If you want to stay with her and can live with what she has done, that's up to you and I wish you well.

Just don't be blind. She has already proven she IS interested in other men. Whether she ever cheats again from here on out remains to be seen and she may just be able to hold true to that. But she cheated because she DOES have an interest in other men, and that desire simply is not going to go away.

So when you say the only way you will be 100% secure is if she doesn't have an interest in other men, that just isn't going to happen. She can be faithful and refrain from cheating from here on out. But that desire is still going to be there and she has acted on that desire in the past.

The one thing I will point out is, I know you don't want to be controlling, and I wouldn't suggest otherwise.
But if she is still going out to bars and clubs, then by her own doing, that should be over. Its not appropriate behavior for a married spouse, much less one that has cheated.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

If the dude keeps trying to chat her up , send his wife a message. Ask her if you can see her t!ts. Tell her her husband asked to seeyour wife's and you figured it would be all right with him. Then tell him to keep his distance unless he wants a whole lot of trouble.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Btw, medical personnel and teachers top the list as cheaters.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

#1 It's normal man give yourself some slack. My ex wife cheated on me and I still have problems with it and we're not even married and haven't been for more than 15 years. Scars man, scars.

#2 You have more strength than I could ever have. No way could I have gone back and had the balls to go through what you go through every day. I salute you.

#3 If she didn't want the attention she'd shut it down. If she respected what she put you through she'd shut it down. If she acknowledged that she's a serial cheater and wanted to change she'd shut it down. Sorry man but all roads lead to her liking the attention which is maybe how her affairs started.

My read? Tell her to shut it down. Condition of marriage. You shouldn't even have to give a reason at this point or justify it.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

I am going to jump back in and add, that I agree with others above---THERE IS NO WAY IN HE*L SHE SHOULD BE ALLOWED ANYWHERE NEAR A BAR, DANCE CLUB, OR ANY OTHER PLACE WHERE PUA's attend.

If she needs GNO---it needs to be to the movies, or at a restaurant, or at hobbie/sports events

Once again---YOU ARE NOT CONTROLLING---YOU ARE PROTECTING YOUR MGE., FROM A PARTNER WHO IS A KNOWN TWO-TIME CHEATER


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

@vellocet i appreciate your input; but honestly...you can't/don't know all the details of my situation. there are details of our life together (unrelated to the infidelity) that i've opted not to share that would/could put our current relationship in a diffrent light...



vellocet said:


> But she has cheated before and the 2nd time was with a coworker. If she doesn't realize she needs to tone it down, then she is inviting more of the same. That coupled with the fact that this coworker that texted her probably knows she had an affair and figures she's up for another.


i've seen her interact with people it isn't overt flirting. i really think this guy is the type of person who thinks the cashier at walmart is hitting on him b/c she smiles when giving him her change. i an also assure that she's not informed him of her past infidelity....it's something she's very ashamed of. during out discussion, we talked about who she's spoken to of it lately. remember, we've moved from the town we once lived in and very few of the people we consider friends now were even around us those days. she's told one person...i really doubt this guy has any idea of our past. i think he casts a wiiiide net and pretty much chats up any woman.



vellocet said:


> BS. She doesn't have to be nasty to him. She simply needs to say that her husband doesn't appreciate it and that it is not appropriate communication.
> 
> And sorry, that is NOT the reason she didn't shut it down.
> 
> ...


which is pretty much what she told him....i asked her why she didn't say anything to im immediately...she said that she didn't want him to play it off and then gab around the "office" something along the lines of "haha...she thinks i'd be interested in her...blah blah" just really no point in that when she thought just ignoring it would "make it go away"... i really think she didn't know what to do initally b/c it came out of the blue. 

she doesn't "party" by an means...we go to bars together with friends...occasionally, she'll go out with several of the girls she works with. i have no problem with this. we both need to be able to have social lives....i have to be able to give her some measure of trust. it's very hard; but it has to happen or there's no way this marriage will work.



vellocet said:


> That's how it starts. They test the waters, go fishing for an affair, then if it turns out to be unwanted communication, the sender can say, "Oh I was just joking around"


oh i agree...and we discussed this. she was a bit afraid of feeling embarassed...and i can see that. the problem is that (and we discussed this) with our (her) history, we should err on the side of caution. so what if he laughs it off....so what if he blabs about her being conceited and thinking that he was seriously hitting on her when he made an off color joke? what's more important? that? or our marriage and how secure i feel? the answer is our marriage and me....



vellocet said:


> Ok, so how are you going to know she will cut off all communication with this guy? And this contradicts her supposed desire to have no office awkwardness.
> 
> Is she going to text him back and let you see the reply?


she did...and i did...and i have access to her facebook/email/phone full transparency there. i know she'll avoid this guy the same way anyone knows what their spouse is doing when they aren't around. i'll just have to put a bit of trust in her.




vellocet said:


> Her 2 affairs don't bare that out.
> 
> Just don't be blind. She has already proven she IS interested in other men. Whether she ever cheats again from here on out remains to be seen and she may just be able to hold true to that. But she cheated because she DOES have an interest in other men, and that desire simply is not going to go away.


her actions have shown that she *WAS* interested in other men at some point in our marraige...and she *DID* desire them. the gloom and doom is only true if you also believe that people can't change. if that's the case, reconcilliation will never work and my marriage would be a lost cause. i just don't belive that. sorry.

the one thing you have to understand or accept is that people can and do change. to say my wife has interest in other men and desire other men based on her past actions, you have to say that she cannot change and i dont' believe that be true. i've changed very much over the last 7 years....as has she. i'm probably not reconizable (through actions and appearance) to be the same man i was then. i honestly think i'm a better man..and she's become a better woman post infidelity. I'm not blind by any means...thus this thread.

before i dated and met my wife...i dated other women...i must have desired them....i no longer desire them; i changed. i believe my wife has changed as well. im not naive enough to think she could never change again; but everyone can change. i think the only thing i can do is work with her to make our marriage strong.

ill close with this; if you look at this situation with gloom and doom (or any marriage posted on these forums probably) there's never going to be any chance for a postive outcome. im just not going to approach my life that way.


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

@jnj oh there was a time when i would have totally freaked out, but on the very few occasions she's gone out with friends, she checks in very frequently...and not just a quick text...she calls me..we chat some..etc. i know where they are going...who is going...and she comes home at a reasonable time...."reasonable" based on your perceptions of reasonable i guess.

i want her to have a social life...she should be happy..but there's a happy balance to be met between her social activites and my feels of security in our relationship.

i really don't worry about her when she goes out b/c that's in no way related to either of her affairs.....she is not a ONS w/a a total stranger type of person...and her past infidelity has proven this. i've seen her at bars (when she didnt' know i was around/watching) and i've seen how she handles guys there....i've never once been nervous about that.


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

StuckInAL said:


> an interesting post script to all this....after our initial conversation, which was two days or so ago...she ended the words with friends game w/the overly nice coworker...
> 
> he immediately tried to start up a new game....she declined
> 
> ...


So let me make sure I'm following this thread correctly.

Your wife had sex with 2 different guys while you were married 7 years ago. You addressed it so effectively that now, 7 years later, you are still triggering over the memories.

Player-Co-worker asks your wife to show him her tits for a string of beads, which, as noted, causes you to trigger. You have a nice, civilized conversation with your wife, explaining how the situation makes you feel, and go on at length in this thread about how you wish she would just shut this guy down,

JUST AS HARD AS SHE SHUTS DOWN GUYS WHO GRIND AGAINST HER WHEN SHE GOES OUT DANCING AT CLUBS.

Is this all correct? Okay, good.

So then you add the post above, all proud of your wife for shutting Playerboy down?

StuckinAl, I think your post got chopped up. No matter how many times I read it, the part where your wife told Playerboy to go pound sand up his @ss is missing.

Player: "Hey, let's play a new game."

Wife: "Sorry, not interested in playing with you any more."

Player: "C'mon, play with me, play with me, playwithmeplaywithmeplaywithme."

Wife: "Sorry, I'm a happily married woman, and I'd rather focus on my husband, the man I love, who is stuck in Alabama." 

ooops, sorry, no, what she actually said was <crickets>

Player (through FB, crossing another boundary and REALLY showing his hand): "Pay attention to me!"

Wife: "You're a creep. Leave me alone. I love my husband."

Dang it, did it again. What really happened is more <crickets>

StuckinAl, I'm not trying to tell you what to do, but I'm not sure that you should be patting yourself on the back for all the progress you've made, just yet. I'm pretty sure that "I'll just learn to beat her at the game that Playerboy was using to try to seduce her" is a flaccid move, and I mean "flaccid" in the most embarrassing way possible.

You go on in your latest post to explain how you're all liberal and open-minded.

"I want her to have a social life... she should be happy, blah, blah, blah."

I read all this and wonder if you're just d!cking around on this thread.

You trigger 7 years after your wife's infidelity. But you want her to be happy, be able to go out to clubs and dance with other guys, but only if she "shuts them down" when they grind against her? And if your wife is so devoted to your emotional well being, why on God's green earth is she going out to clubs without you, anyway?

Do you even know what you really want? I mean, you said you wanted your wife to shut Playerboy down hard, she proceeds to not-shut-him-down (you can tell by all the followup messages he was / is sending her, if you care to look), and you declare victory, having never achieved your original stated goal.

I'm not trying to be a d!ck. I just truly don't understand what you're trying to accomplish, here.


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

i honestly think i've accomplished what i came here for and will probably stop replying to this thread and let it die on out. 

one thing i've learned is that these triggers will most likely be with me forever....now i've explained them to her. she understands and i think that's a pretty important step forward for me/us.

re: beat her at words with friends was actually a complete and total joke; an effort to add some brevity to the conversation.



> JUST AS HARD AS SHE SHUTS DOWN GUYS WHO GRIND AGAINST HER WHEN SHE GOES OUT DANCING AT CLUBS.


i think this is a little of out context and flammatory...she doesn't grind on guys at clubs...i've been to clubs..im sure everyone here has. every woman here has probably been dancing, minding her own business, and had "one of those guys" come out of nowhere and attempt to hump your leg like a dog in heat. ive seen her swat them away and make it clear she's 100% not interested in that type of attention. 

re: her shutting down the coworker; she did..i saw it...it doesn't mean he can't attempt to contact her again. all i can do is monitor and see if i need to step in and tell him to back off.....she sent him the "not interested in playing" message saturday. understand, she never communicated with him outside WWF before....he sent messages back and they've gone ignored. if he backs off; its' done. if he attempts to message her again; ill probably have to step in...both for her and my peace of mind.

i don't think most of the people here are d!cks by any means...but i do see a slant towards "you can never trust your spouse ever again"..." you shoudl have gottena divorce"..."she is def cheating on you again" and that's fine. i understand that the advice here is 100% based on others' experiences.

i posted b/c this is the first time something like this has happend post reconciliation and i wanted to see if my feelings were normal....they are...if my expectaions are normal...they also are...and get some advice on how to handle...which i have.

i don't think i'm being over open minded and liberal when i say that i want my wife to be happy and have a social life. everyone wants to be happy and have social lives. i actually think of it more as realistic... 

i wouldnt' say i'm d!cking around on this thread; but i guess that's open to interpretation. im offering my opinions to others' advice or thoughts. at this point, there's probably little more that can be said/learned.

i do appreciate all the comments though....both those i agree with and those i disagree with.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

StuckInAL said:


> .occasionally, she'll go out with several of the girls she works with. i have no problem with this.


You should have a problem with it. A big one.

Even before she cheated, this would be stretching a boundary for most married couples. But after? No. Way. In. Hell.

In a post-A marriage, if your wife can't find contentment in her life without partying with friends at bars - without you; then that's her problem, not yours.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

StuckInAL said:


> @vellocet i appreciate your input; but honestly...you can't/don't know all the details of my situation.


Ok, then, good luck with that.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

StuckInAL said:


> she doesn't "party" by an means...we go to bars together with friends...occasionally, she'll go out with several of the girls she works with. i have no problem with this.


If this means out to clubs or bars with the "girls" she works with, then :slap:




> we both need to be able to have social lives


You can have social lives. But engaging in behavior that is more conducive to allowing people to be tempted is not one for a proven cheater.

If I had cheated on someone, the last thing I'd do would be going out to bars and clubs. Me and the guys could do a poker night at one of their homes, go hit a movie, golf. Nothing wrong with a social life. But there are certain aspects of social life that need to no longer exist, that is if the person that cheated wants to respect their cheatee.




> ....i have to be able to give her some measure of trust.


Sure, no problem. But there are certain behaviors, trust or not, that are not respectful to the betrayed spouse. And she should want to refrain from certain activities.



> her actions have shown that she *WAS* interested in other men at some point in our marraige...and she *DID* desire them. the gloom and doom is only true if you also believe that people can't change. if that's the case, reconcilliation will never work and my marriage would be a lost cause. i just don't belive that. sorry.
> the one thing you have to understand or accept is that people can and do change. to say my wife has interest in other men and desire other men based on her past actions, you have to say that she cannot change and i dont' believe that be true.



I believe a cheater can change and never actually cheat again.

But if you think she, as a cheater twice over, all of a sudden lost the desire for other men, then again, all I can say is, good luck with that. But you'll never really know. 

Again, she will probably make good on her vow to never cheat again. I actually don't doubt that. But do you really think she is going to say to you, "I'll never cheat again, but I really love the variety of being with more men than just you" ?




> i've changed very much over the last 7 years....as has she. i'm probably not reconizable (through actions and appearance) to be the same man i was then. i honestly think i'm a better man..and she's become a better woman post infidelity.


So is this to say her infidelity was a good thing and you are glad it happened? If the answer is no, then the latter part of your statement above does not hold true.




> I'm not blind by any means...thus this thread.


I'm sorry, but to think she, even if she never cheats again, doesn't desire the excitement of being with another man, well......




> before i dated and met my wife...i dated other women...i must have desired them....i no longer desire them; i changed.


Apples and oranges. You desired your wife, no longer desired other women, and didn't cheat. The same cannot be said of your wife. Obviously your wife didn't feel the same, otherwise she wouldn't have cheated. Not saying this to hurt you. I've been there, done that my man and know exactly the pain you go through. I'm telling you like it is.




> i believe my wife has changed as well. im not naive enough to think she could never change again; but everyone can change. i think the only thing i can do is work with her to make our marriage strong.
> 
> ill close with this; if you look at this situation with gloom and doom (or any marriage posted on these forums probably) there's never going to be any chance for a postive outcome. im just not going to approach my life that way.


So basically what you are saying is, you knew all along what the outcome of this was going to be, you are just looking for validation. Sorry, can't give it to you.

Yes, she can change, but I also recognize all of the stuff she told you as blowing sunshine up your backside. Not the actual "I'll never cheat again", because I believe she probably never will again after getting caught.

I'm not saying the marriage isn't salvageable. But I recognize when someone is desperate to reconcile because divorce isn't an option for you. All I'm saying is, don't let her play you for a fool. Yes, she needs a social life, but it has to be appropriate. But if you are going to make excuses for her, for example, if she ends up doing "girls nights out", then you are going to have to deal with the drama that WILL come with that later on.

Good luck is all I can say.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

StuckInAL said:


> i've seen her at bars (when she didnt' know i was around/watching) and i've seen how she handles guys there....i've never once been nervous about that.


But of course. You are there with her. I am guessing she isn't stupid enough to go for it when you are around.


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

@vellocet usually a mix of a girl from work...a few other friends...maybe some old friend from high school. again, very infrequent and sporadic. 



> I believe a cheater can change and never actually cheat again.
> 
> But if you think she, as a cheater twice over, all of a sudden lost the desire for other men, then again, all I can say is, good luck with that. But you'll never really know.
> 
> ...


we actually did discuss the "thrill of another man" back during initial reconcilliation and recently....that wasn't really a factor for her...so she says. then again, the thrill of being with another man may be tied to the devastation and hurt her infidelity caused. in either case; it's not something she's expressed as part of the equation then/now. i mean, i can honestly say that i have no interest in sex with a woman outside my marriage. it just doesn't seem thrilling or exciting to me.

also, we can debate knowing the truth as someone tells it all day long. you can never really *know*....



> So is this to say her infidelity was a good thing and you are glad it happened? If the answer is no, then the latter part of your statement above does not hold true.,


of course i dont' think her infidelity was a good thing. it was terrible....no one really thinks infidelity is good. however, it's something that i cannot change. it happened. period. i can never un-happen. can good things come from it? yes....



> Apples and oranges. You desired your wife, no longer desired other women, and didn't cheat. The same cannot be said of your wife. Obviously your wife didn't feel the same, otherwise she wouldn't have cheated. Not saying this to hurt you. I've been there, done that my man and know exactly the pain you go through. I'm telling you like it is.


missing a little context. the point i was making is that i've changed in regards to my desire to be with other women....yes it was before i was married; but it's a change in desire none the less. i also belive my wife can/has changed in regards to her desire to be with other men.



> So basically what you are saying is, you knew all along what the outcome of this was going to be, you are just looking for validation. Sorry, can't give it to you.
> 
> Yes, she can change, but I also recognize all of the stuff she told you as blowing sunshine up your backside. Not the actual "I'll never cheat again", because I believe she probably never will again after getting caught.
> 
> ...


not sure re: "knew the outcome"....did i know i didn't want to divorce my wife because of this in appropriate joke situation? yes..i knew i didn't want to divorce her. i think the 2nd bit is a bit muddled from my end. i don't feel she was blowing smoke. alot of that comes from knowing her for over 18yrs and being present during the conversation. tone, body positioning, etc....divorce is an option; should something catastrophic happen; im not catholic or anything. i may have said that once in response to a post that was just very off base. "co-worker made an inappropriate joke to the wife; better divorce her".



> But of course. You are there with her. I am guessing she isn't stupid enough to go for it when you are around.


i've seen how she acts when she thinks i'm not around...i'v rec'd 3rd party info from friends (my friends...not hers) that were on site somewhere of how she acts when i'm not around...she's told me about things like this b/c she knew it was over the line and bothered her.

which kinda brings it back full circle to the point in this posting....her reaction to overt flirting from other men vs a sneaky coworker i see as a total jacka$$ but doesn't ping on her radar and how to deal with it.

RE:good luck; thanks. im not sure of your circumstance; but good luck finding some happiness out there.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

StuckInAL said:


> we actually did discuss the "thrill of another man" back during initial reconcilliation and recently....that wasn't really a factor for her...so she says.


So if the thrill of another man isn't a factor in her infidelity, what was?




> RE:good luck; thanks. im not sure of your circumstance; but good luck finding some happiness out there.


My circumstance is, wife cheated, I divorced her. I found happiness in knowing I'll never have to deal with infidelity ever again.


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

1. my selfishness....

2. i was emotionally and physically distant.....

3. lack of attention on my part....

4. her inability (at the time) to deal with positive attention from other men (she'd lost alot of weight...around 100lbs or so).

5. negative outside influence from "friends"

6. her own self centered attitude

7. really hard time communicating (we'd fight..argue...but never really communicate effectively....MC helped w/this ALOT)

i basically didn't "care" from her perspective....and she's not entirely wrong. i did care...but not as much as i should have. we'd been together for ~10 years...we were young...i dont' think either of us were really mature enough to deal with a serious marital crisis.

that'd be the high points...


did you attempt reconciliation? hmmm; thats actually something i've wondered about several of the posters here. it's helpful to know where they are coming from in regards to the validity of their observations of my situation.

meaning just if you (the global you...not you specifically) think that reconciliation never works...infidelity = divorce...etc...etc...i mean, your viewpoint isn't going to be as valid to me as someone whos' reconcilled...even attempted serious reconciliation and failed.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

StuckInAL said:


> 1. my selfishness....
> 
> 2. i was emotionally and physically distant.....
> 
> ...



So basically only ONE of the things you highlighted above has anything to do with HER responsibility on this. The rest is putting the blame on yourself and "friends", with the exception of a "hard time communicating". That's not an excuse, as if anything was.

So now it makes sense, its obvious you see her as really not having as much responsibility for her own actions, therefore, she should be understood. Not slamming you here, but I kind of figured you blamed yourself. I know, you'll say you aren't blaming yourself, but you basically just did...for the most part. That and put more emphasis on "reasons" other than anything in her control.



> i basically didn't "care" from her perspective


So not only did you put the blame on yourself, for the most part, so does she it would seem.

So it now makes sense the desperation of reconciliation. Which is not a bad thing. I applaud anyone for trying to make it work.

My input in all of this is to get you to open your eyes while attempting reconciliation. Because as long as you are blind to a lot of things, and yes, you are, no offense, then the work of reconciliation will be tilted heavily to the wrong side.




> did you attempt reconciliation? hmmm; thats actually something i've wondered about several of the posters here. it's helpful to know where they are coming from in regards to the validity of their observations of my situation.


I attempted for maybe one month. And was doing so thinking I was doing it for my kids.



> meaning just if you (the global you...not you specifically) think that reconciliation never works...infidelity = divorce...etc...etc...i mean, *your viewpoint isn't going to be as valid to me as someone whos' reconcilled...even attempted serious reconciliation and failed*.


I'm not of the mindset that infidelity should automatically mean divorce. But there are so many gaslighted people that need to stop being doormats and realize when they are being bullshyted.(just saying in general, not you in particular, although I do think you need to open your eyes just a bit)

And the bolded part affirms my suspicion. You are desperately wanting to reconcile, therefore you are looking for validation and for someone to tell you its going to be alright.

And there isn't anything wrong with wanting to reconcile, hell, not even fishing for that which you want to hear.

Again, just saying, don't do so blindly, or let her gaslight you, or you gaslight yourself, and think everything she tells you is gospel. And if she truly felt like she respects you and doesn't ever want to give you reason to be suspicious again, she herself would refrain from going out with "the girls", at least to certain venues.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

One question. When she cheated with the two guys, did she ever say that at that time, for her, the marriage was over? Was she believing that you two were done?

I've been arond a long time. The first time I know of a married couple going out separately was 1980. My buddy thought this was the greatest thing. They lasted two months before she found someone better. 

Since then, I know one couple that have survived GNOs. Drinking, dancing, etc. is off limits for married folk. No exceptions.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

StuckInAL said:


> an interesting post script to all this....after our initial conversation, which was two days or so ago...she ended the words with friends game w/the overly nice coworker...
> 
> he immediately tried to start up a new game....she declined
> 
> ...


Congratulations on opening her eyes.

Keep being the man. Keep being her man and never settle.


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

@vellocet i appreciate your input; thanks for the advice. i accept responsiblity for my actions and role in creating an unhealthy marriage. i do not blame myself for her infidelity; and neither does she. from my perspective (and hers as we've talked it out several times) we suffered a massive marriage breakdown....just an implosion of sorts. literally, everything just blew up and unraveled over the course of about a 6 week span. it took us several months afterward to get things back on tracke and we've been working at it constantly since then. our/my goal is to get our relationship to as "normal" a place as it can be...it will never be the same; but i do believe it can be normal and healthy for both of us. re: 7 listed items as factors in her infidelity...over half are entirely *her* issues...i guess #5 should read "negative outside influce from HER friends and HER inability to withstand pressure from them". #4-#7 are items that are totally in her control. i see these as personality flaws that she's actually changed/corrected. 

i do not see myself as blind at all. the fact that something just a little bit off pinged my rader tells me that. 

also, from my perspective; we have reconciled. one thing i've learned over the last 7 years is that marriage isn't a task to be completed...it's never "done"...so we'll have to keep working on it forever.

@chaparral at that time she really didn't know what to think. she likens it to a personality crisis....just having no idea what she wanted. i was out of the house for awhile....and when i was there, we pretty much fought all the time. we dont' really go out separately on a regular basis. we do 95% of everything together....GNO has never been a problem for us. her past infidelity was not linked to time out with girlfriends at all. she does not go out with single friends...i've asked her about this..."why isn't XXX going with you guys?"...her reply.."well, when she goes out...shes looking to pick up a man...and that's just not why the rest of us are going out..." i mean, this is probably a once a year type thing....often for someone's birthday or something. typical GNO are going w several friends to a 5K, several of her coworkers (always female) getting together for a xmas party...usually a few of the other husbands and i end up there too crashing the party, or going to a female coworkers house with other female coworkers to lay out by the pool...talk...have some drinks...that sorta thing. there are never men there...period. they are GIRLS nights...well, there's one very openly gay guy who has tagged along for i think bowling or something...all of these coworkers are people iv'e been around and have no issues with what so ever...

i think an important element to a good marriage/life in general is for her to have some friends....my role in that is making sure she pics the right friends; if that makes sense at all.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

StuckInAL said:


> at that time she really didn't know what to think. she likens it to a personality crisis....just having no idea what she wanted.


This is a pretty big red flag that perhaps she is failing to take accountability for her actions and is rug sweeping (which is perhaps natural).

Maybe if you got some true remorse you'd get some closure?

Unlike some posters I 100% think cheating = relationship is over. It may be up to the cheater to try to build a new relationship based on trust and remorse and trying to prove they're worthy... maybe.

Sorry bro I just don't see that here. I see you lost and struggling and trying to find closure for being devastated, and your partner (who did this to you) isn't exactly by your side helping you through this.


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

@marduk thanks for your input. i disagree in that she does feel remorse...she does feel that what she did is inexcusable and in no way justified by the state of our marriage.

i feel that i have closure re: several issues; but i do think some of these feelings may never go away. trust issues specifically..i mean, i know our history has made me hesitant to trust anyone. i think that's probably the norm though of someone in my shoes. 

if i'd divorced my wife all those years ago; i'd probably have issues trusting any other womean as well.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Stuck, I understand what you are saying. I really do.

I asked earlier if her desire to be with other men wasn't a factor then what was, to which you replied with some answers.

But here is the problem. If any of those answers that you gave were, we'll pretend, legitimate "reasons" to have an affair, then they would be so with ONE man who would make her feel special.

But she was with 2 men, meaning they didn't have to be special, she simply "desired" them. And again, if you think she would like to be with another man, you are fooling yourself. She simply can make good on the promise to never cheat again.
I say this because you based your reconciliation that she "100%" has no desire for another man. 100% isn't going to happen. 

She more than likely wants you.
She more than likely wants to keep this marriage.
She more than likely, after being caught, will never cheat again.

I truly believe that.

But don't kid yourself. She'll want other men, she just won't cross the line and risk losing you.

So perhaps you shouldn't base your reconciliation on her "desire" of other men, but rather her commitment to respect you from here on out and never cheat again, as well as shutting down any man coming on to her, and resist flirting


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

StuckInAL said:


> @marduk thanks for your input. i disagree in that she does feel remorse...she does feel that what she did is inexcusable and in no way justified by the state of our marriage.
> 
> i feel that i have closure re: several issues; but i do think some of these feelings may never go away. trust issues specifically..i mean, i know our history has made me hesitant to trust anyone. i think that's probably the norm though of someone in my shoes.
> 
> if i'd divorced my wife all those years ago; i'd probably have issues trusting any other womean as well.


Being inexcusable and not being justified doesn't mean that she has made an attempt to understand the depth of despair, ego destruction, and a lifetime of insecurity that this will cause you... and being willing to stand with you in the middle of that and do what it takes to help you overcome it.

Words are easy. Actions are hard.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

StuckInAL said:


> any advice? when does this suspicion end? am i just damaged goods?


Let me say this as respectfully as I can. 

You came here for advice. I think the consensus of posters have suggested that:

1 - You insist that your wife give this OM a written communication to back off.

2 - That you not accept your wife continuing her GNO's.

You have rejected that advice, while providing your own justifications along the way. That is your prerogative of course.

But to answer your last two original questions:

The suspicion may never end, given your refusal to insist on reasonable boundaries and the lack of any action against this OM.

I don't believe you're damaged goods; just misguided.


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

im going to close out by saying thanks to everyone for the support and advice. i have honestly taken alot to heart. i can say that this thread has made me look at several things from a different perspective and i do believe it's helped me alot.

i have a better understanding of why i feel the way i do about some things. i've learned that my feelings are pretty normal and to be expected given my past. i've learned that i need to be alot more forthcoming with my wife in regards to how i feel...why...and what she needs to do to help me.

i wish you all luck in finding happiness and helping others who come seeking advice.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

:slap:


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Read married mans sex life primer.
Good luck Stuck.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

StuckInAL said:


> long story short: wife and i were married young. after about 8 yrs of marriage, she cheated. first time was with a "friend" of mine. one night stand. 2nd time was with a co-worker.
> 
> she confessed, we went to counseling, and we worked through it.
> 
> ...


No. You are not damaged goods, but she is. Sounds like your first knowledge of her infidelity was when she had already become a serial cheater. To me divorcing a serial cheater should be a slam dunk for anyone. It is giving the 2nd chance to a one-timer that is A more reasonable debate. 

Have only read the first page of this thread but do intend to read the rest. Will be interesting to see if my impression changes at all........


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Stuck:

now Ive read all of it and - hypothetical - if you asked your wife to take a polygraph, then perhaps to be tested again every couple years. what would she say?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I think where Stuck is stuck is in his craw...

His wife never experienced any negative ramifications for her multiple infidelities. She got to go out and throw up her legs for two different men, have her fun, humiliate her husband (she knew it was killing him at the time she was doing it and did it anyway), and she experienced no negative repercussions at all. 

Her loving husband rugswept the affairs, welcomed her back with open arms and never asked her to work on her issues or establish any new boundaries for the marriage. 

What did Stuck get? Mind movies, anguish, pain, humiliation, and the lifetime knowledge that the woman he married has the morals of a sea pirate.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Disregard, wrong thread.


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

thought i might as well update anyone interested....

the wife and i have had several chats since all this popped up and things are going very well. i do think some of the details of the past were swept under the rug a bit and we've aired all that out. the only things i didn't really know all the details about past infidelities were timelines...i was pretty close in my guesses so nothing new really came to light that changes anything in our reconciliation, honestly.

i did get some info re: the why's and things like that...questions i never wanted to know the answers to before.

the initial reason for this thread did circle back around....an over friendly guy at work.

the wife had been giving him the cold shoulder; just ignoring him. after our first talk she understood why the situation bothered me; stopped playing words with friends w/him, and he's no longer a friend on facebook. interestingly he did chat w/her in the hall at work and ask "hey..whats up"...she just laid it out there for him "not just going to ignore the inappropriate jokes...not appreciated...etc..etc"...he acted shocked..."hey, i was just joking around"....which was expected.

he came back around to chat w/her (in front of a mutual coworker that i'm friends with)....didn't mean anything by it..maybe your husband isn't secure in your marriage and i should talk to him...my wife and her friend laugh at him...probably not a good idea. 

he did actually reach out to me to apologize and see about maybe getting to know each other over a beer...my reply was pretty short. pass on the beer...not interested in your bullsh!t...you'd not appreciate it if one of your wife's coworkers made a joke offering her beads to flash him. i really thought that would end it; i wasn't being super aggressive. he replied again....after this and the conversation i had w/my wife about his message; i decided it was time to just shut him down. fired off last message to him along the lines of "off color jokes sent via private chat is disrepectful to myself, my wife, your wife, and both our marriages...your comments took your workplace friendship w/my wife to an inappropriate place and the non-work contact stops now. got it?"...he replied with yes..sorry for all the confusion...etc..etc.

my honest theory is that this guy has probably done this his entire life...he probably (on some subconcious level) gets off on flirting/attention...regardless if it's reciprocated...i let him know that he's chatting up the wrong guys wife.

it felt great.

so 2-3 weeks after my first major trigger and things are pretty much back to normal. i'm not feeling those urges to find out who she's texting/calling/emailing. my wife has a better understanding for some of the things that bug me. we both agree it's best to just talk about the past vs me brooding over it for weeks. we've talked about boundaries in plain english (something i've had problems with in the past).

we are able to bring up issues from the past and discuss them being mindful of the pain but not feeling it in the now..which feels huge.

i want to thank everyone (even the people i didn't agree with) for their input/advice. i may stick around here awhile....im amazed by the insight people bring to the table in some of these threads.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Glad to hear that things are better w/ you, Stuck.

And damn... That [email protected]$$ was just asking to have a few teeth knocked down his throat, wasn't he? Happy to see that you put him in his place. Stay watchful, though. Not _hypervigilant_... but vigilant.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Stuck

Glad to see some honest, straight forward communication worked for both you & your wife.

Keep it up.

And way to go on shutting that idiot down.

I am sure your wife sees him for what he truly us.....

An idiot that likes to cause trouble.

Thanks for the update.

HM


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

First time I've ever read this thread.



StuckInAL said:


> i've always thought this guy was a bit too friendly (shoulder rubs for all the woman at work , "popping" their backs, etc),


:wtf:

Shoulder rubs for the women? Popping their backs as if he's some chiropractor? This guy puts his hands on women and no one thinks this is sexual harassment? This jerkoff is a player, seeing who's going to bite. This is the equivalent of a female sitting in a male's lap. This is way over the line. And you know why no one thought this is sexual harassment? Its because they ENJOYED it. 

Sorry, but if some man were putting his hands on my wife, I'm going to see him in person and talk to his manager. This is so uncool.

To all the BS's here: Do you put your hands on other women/men at work? Incredible.



StuckInAL said:


> but feel that he went over the line when he offered to let my wife "practice" earning beads in preparation for a trip we made to New Orleans.


He blatantly made a pass at your wife. Earning beads? As in showing your tits earning beads? :wtf:



StuckInAL said:


> it was an offhand comment; she did not reply, it seems totally one sided (from him), but i feel that she should shut him down hard. she is pretty much playing it off like "he's joking...he didn't mean anything...he's never said anything like that before".


This was NO offhand comment. It was a blatant pass. Men simply DO NOT say that to women in the workplace. She didn't report him because she enjoyed the attention, probably flattered.



StuckInAL said:


> other coworkers of hers, that i actually like/trust, say he's not threat...just an overly freindly guy. He's married, kids, etc....


I don't know if you know findingmyway, he was a player and he posted about how he nailed women at work. This was his way. He was trolling to see who would take the bait. And that's another thing: It doesn't mean a thing that he's married with kids. That's part of his game.



StuckInAL said:


> i think she really doesn't know how to handle it. Her plan seems to be to just ignore the comment and hope it goes away/stops because she's just a friendly person in general.


And here you are rationalizing her action, even after she's cheated on you with a coworker before. Its no wonder your gut is screaming at you.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

StuckInAL said:


> thought i might as well update anyone interested....
> 
> the wife and i have had several chats since all this popped up and things are going very well. i do think some of the details of the past were swept under the rug a bit and we've aired all that out. the only things i didn't really know all the details about past infidelities were timelines...i was pretty close in my guesses so nothing new really came to light that changes anything in our reconciliation, honestly.
> 
> ...


No, he's a player, that's part of his game. And you should do more, like reporting the sexual harassment. This guy put his hands on your wife. No man should be giving your wife shoulder rubs, then he makes a pass at her. I don't know about you, but every place I've ever worked at has always had this training about sexual harassment in the workplace, and what you describe is the very thing they use in the training videos as example of sexual harassment. 

The reason this guy gets away with it is because they enjoy the attention.


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## Turin74 (Apr 11, 2014)

I probably going to get banned for this. .. That's fine, not a good day for me anyway, don't care. So: why so many guys here have a tendency to discuss everything to death before (until sometimes it's too late) or instead of acting? OP, In most companies what that co-worker was doing is clear cut sexual harassment. .. I've seen training videos that are covering very similar scenarios. They say explicitly it includes these situations and channels e.g. social media like yours. Typical policy is tell him to stop once (employee eg your wife had to do it) - if doesn't stop, escalate as per policy. This is no joke. Strong reaction is appropriate even if there was no affair involved. [\B] And the policy is often very specific on trying to get into employee's personal life, which is the case.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Turin74 said:


> I probably going to get banned for this. .. That's fine, not a good day for me anyway, don't care. So: why so many guys here have a tendency to discuss everything to death before (until sometimes it's too late) or instead of acting? OP, In most companies what that co-worker was doing is clear cut sexual harassment. .. I've seen training videos that are covering very similar scenarios. They say explicitly it includes these situations and channels e.g. social media like yours. Typical policy is tell him to stop once (employee eg your wife had to do it) - if doesn't stop, escalate as per policy. This is no joke. * Strong reaction is appropriate even if there was no affair involved. [\B] And the policy is often very specific on trying to get into employee's personal life, which is the case.
> 
> Posted via Topify on Android*


*

:iagree:*


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

lordmayhem said:


> The reason this guy gets away with it is because they enjoy the attention.


i've actually discussed w/my wife and a few of her coworkers and he gets away with it b/c none of them take him seriously or consider him a "threat". he looks like an overgrown 13 yr old.

he's been known to compose his own terribly poetry and read it to all the women at work....they really treat him like a joke.

if he's a pickup artist; he's the worst....i tend to think it's more that he gets off on the interaction with any female...if they are interested...humoring him....ignoring him..doesn't matter. just the interaction itself is enjoyable to him. 

he'd try to engage my wife on any topic...at all period...just to interact and i've been told he's like this with *everyone*.

i think i'm just the first husband to not laugh it off and actually call him on it.

not once did i feel my wife had a genuine interest in this guy...the whole point of this thread was an attempt for me to understand how i was feeling about all this. i've not had a trigger moment in 7 yrs of reconcilliation so it was very new/foreign to me.


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

Turin74 said:


> I probably going to get banned for this. .. That's fine, not a good day for me anyway, don't care. So: why so many guys here have a tendency to discuss everything to death before (until sometimes it's too late) or instead of acting? OP, In most companies what that co-worker was doing is clear cut sexual harassment. .. I've seen training videos that are covering very similar scenarios. They say explicitly it includes these situations and channels e.g. social media like yours. Typical policy is tell him to stop once (employee eg your wife had to do it) - if doesn't stop, escalate as per policy. This is no joke. * Strong reaction is appropriate even if there was no affair involved. [\B] And the policy is often very specific on trying to get into employee's personal life, which is the case.
> 
> Posted via Topify on Android*


*

oh i mentioned it to my wife immediately....i wanted to see how she reacted...after coming here for advice; i took action and spoke w/her the next day. 

re: the whole sexual harrassment/HR angle...this kinda stuff is common around here. i don't think anyone considers it harassment b/c he's not aggressive, he's tossing a wide net, he's just "being nice", just "that guy" whos' friendly w/everyone.

once my wife pointed out that the jokes were inappropriate and unwanted...and that wasn't too pleased w/it...he got very nervous and apologized to my wife repeatedly and wanted to smooth things over w/me....and spoke w/my wife's friend at work making sure she wasn't upset, etc,etc...

once he realized that what he was doing is outta line...not appreciated by everyone...and that there werer people out there who would call him on it; he probably realized that HR could get involved and there could be serious problems for him.*


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## Turin74 (Apr 11, 2014)

Looks like he knows what he is doing is wrong. The fact he was nervous leads me to be certain that he was tossing the wide net. .. looking for an easy catch. And based on how your described the situation he will start over again sooner or later.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

StuckInAL said:


> i've actually discussed w/my wife and a few of her coworkers and he gets away with it b/c none of them take him seriously or consider him a "threat". he looks like an overgrown 13 yr old.
> 
> he's been known to compose his own terribly poetry and read it to all the women at work....they really treat him like a joke.
> 
> ...



Passive.


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

@turin probably...as long as it isn't w/my wife; i dont 'care.

@bandit...thanks for the sage like advice.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

StuckInAL said:


> @turin probably...as long as it isn't w/my wife; i dont 'care.
> 
> @bandit...thanks for the sage like advice.


Why thank you. 

What are you afraid of?

If he's the noob you say he is, you should be meeting him at 5:00 pm in the office parking lot threatening him with a beat down if he doesn't cool his sh!t.


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

bandit.45 said:


> Why thank you.
> 
> What are you afraid of?
> 
> If he's the noob you say he is, you should be meeting him at 5:00 pm in the office parking lot threatening him with a beat down if he doesn't cool his sh!t.


afraid of? nothing....meeting him in the parking lot after work isn't necessary.

wife ignored him.....he bugged her in the hall...she told him in plain english; the jokes and comment aren't appropriate or appreciated..

he reached out to me to "smooth things over"...i told him not interested in his apologies. non-work related contact w/my wife ends.....he folded quickly.

does that mean he wont' bug her again? who knows. i do think he realizes at this point that if he does; he could get into some serious trouble. im pretty confident this is enough to deter him.

wife and i are a lot more comfortable talking about the past

she's much more aware of things that bug me

mission accomplished?

id' post a transcript of my pm exchange w/this guy; but im pretty sure it's too passive for you since i didn't threaten him (explicitly) with bodily harm. haha


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

StuckInAL said:


> afraid of? nothing....meeting him in the parking lot after work isn't necessary.
> 
> wife ignored him.....he bugged her in the hall...she told him in plain english; the jokes and comment aren't appropriate or appreciated..
> 
> ...


He he. 

Tell me, when did Southern guys lose their nads?


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

bandit.45 said:


> He he.
> 
> Tell me, when did Southern guys lose their nads?


sigh....


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I'd beat his ass.


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## Turin74 (Apr 11, 2014)

StuckInAL said:


> @turin probably...as long as it isn't w/my wife; i dont 'care.


And you are probably right, can't be a knight in a shiny armor for everybody. Right? 

But imho a very good opportunity to reestablish 'no male friends/flirting after cheating' rule. Routine 7 years/30000 miles maintenance so to speak. 

Maybe helps to ease the paranoia, who knows? 
And you don't have to threaten/go physical. You now have his jewels in a grip in a perfectly legal way. You decide if you want to squeeze.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

we have more of a "no male friends i dont' like...." rule and a "no flirting w/anyone" rule....works for us.

again; the flirting was veeeery one sided. wife seems to use the "ignore it and it'll go away" technique as much as possible. this is the first time it's not really worked that well.


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## Turin74 (Apr 11, 2014)

Well, if the boundary got tested 1st time in 7 years, and your reaction was swift, decisive and unambiguous, that's a good thing as all rules need to be refreshed, they get rusty sometimes. I'd ask myself (if I was in your shoes) if it was like that. And if it was I'd be sleeping well that night 

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

> which is pretty much what she told him....i asked her why she didn't say anything to im immediately...she said that she didn't want him to play it off and then gab around the "office" something along the lines of "haha...she thinks i'd be interested in her...blah blah" just really no point in that when she thought just ignoring it would "make it go away"... i really think she didn't know what to do initally b/c it came out of the blue.


 Sorry, this is a ridiculous reason. I've worked for 30 years and rumors start because you look at someone too long. The same thing happens if she ignore/accepts the flirting. Random other coworker sees this and says "haha...she is interested in him...blah blah."

Anyway, sounds like you are starting to get what you need to do. Good luck.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Bandit is just pulling your legs(I think).

You weren't passive this time. 

You dealt with this in the best way possible. Threatening to beat him up will put your wife position at work in an uncomfortable/risky situation. The OM happened to be too much of a joke to be of any concern.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

No. I wasn't. His wife has proven she cannot be trusted with coworkers. Everything he knows about this situation is filtered through her. He is doomed to take care of these things himself or accept what comes if he doesn't. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Turin74 said:


> I probably going to get banned for this. .. That's fine, not a good day for me anyway, don't care.


You certainly shouldn't be. This isn't the stuff people are banned for.



Turin74 said:


> So: why so many guys here have a tendency to discuss everything to death before (until sometimes it's too late) or instead of acting? OP, In most companies what that co-worker was doing is clear cut sexual harassment. .. I've seen training videos that are covering very similar scenarios. They say explicitly it includes these situations and channels e.g. social media like yours. Typical policy is tell him to stop once (employee eg your wife had to do it) - if doesn't stop, escalate as per policy. This is no joke. Strong reaction is appropriate even if there was no affair involved. [\B] And the policy is often very specific on trying to get into employee's personal life, which is the case.


:iagree: (too)

At a previous employer I saw WAYYY to much crap go on at work. I know two instances where a manager was fired because they didn't deal with known workplace affairs. The company didn't have explicit fraternization rules, but hiding an illicit affair at work created trouble for the other employees. In one of the cases, both spouses worked for the company. The BS ended up with $150K in a settlement because the OM attempted to retaliate in his employment capacity. 

I am a manager, and as of last year I am now managing a female employee. I'm not going to get fired for non-work crap going on under me. And I make it clear to everyone I work with. I'm simply not going to put up with it.


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## Turin74 (Apr 11, 2014)

larry.gray said:


> You certainly shouldn't be. This isn't the stuff people are banned for.


I have edited my post before submitting. It was much less polite, trust me. That is how most workplace affairs start. An overly friendly guy flirting high and low, every body laughs it off until it is too late. My friends 'bag boy' case started like that. Anybody with cwi stories count? 

And I agree with the rest of your post.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> No. I wasn't. His wife has proven she cannot be trusted with coworkers. Everything he knows about this situation is filtered through her. He is doomed to take care of these things himself or accept what comes if he doesn't.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What do you suggest he do ?


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

Turin74 said:


> I have edited my post before submitting. It was much less polite, trust me. That is how most workplace affairs start. An overly friendly guy flirting high and low, every body laughs it off until it is too late. My friends 'bag boy' case started like that. Anybody with cwi stories count?
> 
> And I agree with the rest of your post.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


which is why i acted vs just laughing it off....



BANDIT said:


> No. I wasn't. His wife has proven she cannot be trusted with coworkers. Everything he knows about this situation is filtered through her. He is doomed to take care of these things himself or accept what comes if he doesn't.


actually; i discussed this guy w/a few of her coworkers too...to get a read on him. for reconciliation to work, there has to be a measure of trust....or you could just say that any fww can't be trusted to be around any other men b/c she's cheated in the past...w/a man....


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

We'll, then more power to you. Hope she's worth it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

bandit.45 said:


> We'll, then more power to you. Hope she's worth it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


i obviously think she is. sincerely; have you ever approved of anyone reconciling?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

StuckInAL said:


> i obviously think she is. sincerely; have you ever approved of anyone reconciling?


Only when the wayward spouse is 100% remorseful. Nothing you have told us here indicates that is really the case. Sounds like she rugswept her affairs and got you to buy into it. But I don't live with her. You do. So if you're cool with the situation at her work, then keep on trucking friend. I hope you're not wrong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## StuckInAL (May 8, 2014)

well; only time will tell. i do believe she is remorseful...she doesn't wake up each day praying at my alter thankful for my forgiveness; but i don't want that. i want, as close as possible, to have a "normal" marriage. i know she regrets what she did. i know she never intends to do it again.

i do think there were some elements of the past that were swept under the rug...after that realization, we talked about it and revisited them. i got many more details than i had; but honestly...none of it changed the way i feel about her or R. i dont think i've bought into anything b/c that would imply something is being sold...and that's really not the case here. 

i am comfortable w/the work situation. my goal w/this was to lay the groundwork for how these issues will be handled in the future. i do not think this guy was any real threat...just a jerk...but i treated him like one to set the tone for the next overly friendly a$$hole that comes along.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

StuckInAL said:


> well; only time will tell. i do believe she is remorseful...she doesn't wake up each day praying at my alter thankful for my forgiveness; but i don't want that. i want, as close as possible, to have a "normal" marriage. i know she regrets what she did. i know she never intends to do it again.
> 
> i do think there were some elements of the past that were swept under the rug...after that realization, we talked about it and revisited them. i got many more details than i had; but honestly...none of it changed the way i feel about her or R. i dont think i've bought into anything b/c that would imply something is being sold...and that's really not the case here.
> 
> i am comfortable w/the work situation. my goal w/this was to lay the groundwork for how these issues will be handled in the future. i do not think this guy was any real threat...just a jerk...but i treated him like one to set the tone for the next overly friendly a$$hole that comes along.


Stuck

If I were in your situation, wanting to stay under these past circumstances, I believe I would ask her to take a polygraph every few years, for awhile anyway. You may love her but I don't think you should trust her. That way she'll know you want to keep her but she'll also know she can't walk all over you. If you decide that is the right thing to do, tell her that is what you want and you're not willing to debate it with her.


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