# Why can't I get over him? Please help. My story.



## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

I'd like to share my story. I hope someone can shed some light on this for me, and I hope I can return the favor when time heals my pain - but for now, the days are standing still - and I think something is wrong. I'm starting to feel like I will never "get over him". I think I'm being punished somehow and this is my fate for the rest of my life. I wish I could say, this just happened a month ago - but it's been much longer. It's been just shy of 5 months, and I'm still on this roller coaster of emotions. Why?! This can't be normal. I've taken all the right steps. I've been to therapy once a week, for the entire 5 months (this alone is becoming pricey!). I've been put on medication to help me overcome my situational depression/anxiety. I've read many books. I have supportive family and friends. I honestly think I'm incapable of moving on, and what kills me the most is - I allow him to place the blame on me. I don't let him know, I accept it - but, I find myself telling myself over and over - If I only..... this, If I only.... that. Was I that bad of a wife? Was it the fighting we did (that is what he blames it on)? Should've I lost weight? Should've I this, Should've I that? It's never ending.

Sometimes I think I'm moving on. I feel like I've been through all the stages - only to find myself back at the beginning again.

I wrote out my story, but I can't seem to make it short enough, it's just so long - and I don't want to over-do my welcome. lol. This is still long, but I don't know how else to shorten it. 

My story, is the result of infidelity. All the signs were there (taking her out to lunch, exercising/weight lifting, cleaning his car extra well, new clothes/colognes, never leaving his phone out of sight, deleting texts (locking it with password), staying late for work), he even admitted it looked like an affair - and then he began admitting he was letting it look like that on purpose just to hurt me. The stress and jealousy that resulted from it, caused more fighting than ever before. Which, he now blames the divorce on - not the affair. The fighting. Yet, he clearly admits, he tried to hurt me on purpose. What was I supposed to do, sit back and let him emotionally abuse me and keep my mouth shut? 

I finally asked him to seek counseling more than once, he told me no - every single time. I asked him to stop seeing her, he told me no - they were friends, and the woman he married (me) would never ask him to stop being friends with someone. Blamed me, for turning into a "B" because I was jealous. I finally told him, if I told you - Her or Me? What would you do? He told me, Her. Because, again - I was no longer the woman he married, the woman he married wouldn't tell him to kick a friend to the curb. I said, well the man I married wouldn't put another woman over his wife. I let it go... Probably for another 2 months, because I truly truly didn't want to lose him. I tried everything, in my power to make it work. However, he never tried. It got worse, he started buying her gifts and took her out to lunch every single day (debt was climbing!). My pain and hurt got worse... and it just caused me to fight, b/c I was in so much pain of losing my husband to someone and I had no control over it. I finally told him, "One more chance, her or me?" and he said Her - I want a Divorce. I said, OK When are you leaving? He said Now. I said, Bye. I took my son, and I left. When I got home, he was gone. Everything.

I regret that now. Because, I feel like - I should've kept trying, or maybe I should've just been OK with it. Because at least now, I wouldn't be hurting like I am now. At least I wouldn't be alone. At least I would have someone to lay next to in bed at night. At least my son would have his Dad here. The list goes on and on.

It was very nasty for awhile, after he moved out. I hated it, the nasty was bad, it was painful. Now, that has stopped. He has truly moved on with this other woman (it's either her, or another one - not sure exactly) - I know it was her for a long while, b/c he moved in with her for awhile - but I know he doesn't live there now. He ignores me now, and he refuses to be civil in any way - just complete ignore. I guess that is what I'm struggling over - b/c at least the negative attention, was attention. Now there is none. It doesn't make sense, but it's the only thing I can think of??

God.. this doesn't make sense. I don't understand why he can't apologize, why he can't accept blame, why he never tried to reconcile with his wife of 14 years who he shared a child with. How can he give up this life, and everything we had/share - for a woman he only knew for 6 months? He not once, not even a little bit --- tried to make things work. It's like, he simply doesn't care - I'm dead to him. He even wrote that to me in an email not too long ago "You are nothing to me, you have no part in my life in any way shape or form".


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

You know, I should probably add - so I don't sound like a complete failure.

Everyone in my life is telling me, I am doing amazing. I have come a long way, in some regards. I used to pretty much cry all day, every day. Now - I only cry sometimes (Christmas was hard and may be why I'm here today doubting myself). Sometimes I can go a day or two and not even worry myself with him. I'd like to go a week........ then 2..... you get the idea.

The divorce is NOT final. It will be early early spring, according to my attorney. Ex hasn't gotten a job since the day he left (he quit) and he is doing this, so he doesn't have to pay anything in support. 

My therapist has even told me once (before Thanksgiving), I was starting to be in the "anger/acceptance" stage - but, anymore - it just doesn't feel like it. 

I wonder if it was the email, ex sent me 2 weeks ago. That email, is where he told me - that he was happier than he has ever been, driven, etc. etc. etc. His family and friends have told him how happy he looks. Granted, this is coming from a family who is so religious - and anti-divorce as they come. Yet - they tell their precious son, how happy he looks - after walking out on his wife and son? How can that be?

I've not once heard from a single person in that family. Not once. Not for Thanksgiving or Christmas. They don't call to see if we're doing okay, they don't call to see how my son is doing - nothing. This is a family, who acts so holy and acts like life is about helping others (which I agree with) - but, there own "family" who I used to be, for a long long time - is soon forgotten? Not even a Christmas card was sent to us.

Now the ignoring from ex --- acting like I don't exist. Celebrating Christmas with his new girlfriend.... it's just too much.

I guess my biggest concern is, how did I get so far - to go all the way back to the beginning again?


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

So sorry Lost, I feel bad for you.

I don't know your story, but there was something there for him to marry you, and have a child with you, but sometimes relationships break down and one or the other detaches first. He chose to cheat rather than address it, that is a weakness on his part, his emails sound cruel, sometimes Ws's say things like that to force the other person to move on because it makes their "new life" easier, again very selfish and cruel.

But as you heal you can rediscover that person that you are and learn to love her again, you are broken now, (anyone one of us would be in your case), you can have hope and believe that you will get through this, and find strength and dignity again.

I am sorry for what you are going through, any contact you have with him will only cause pain for a while, be good to yourself, and be reasonable about your recovery, you deserve to come out of this and live again.

I wish you well.
Take care!


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

How has this affected your son?


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Thank you Decorum, the story basically is - that we always had a pretty good, almost perfect relationship. We had our fights, like any married couple - but, we were best friends. I heard him describe us this way to many people. I was head over heels in love with him. We were a family. The 3 of us. 

We were given a family business (my side) to run, and he had to hire someone to help and they fell for one another, and the story goes from there in my first post. He left me, out of no where - completely blindsided by his actions. I never saw that side of him, it was as if - he just suddenly became a different person. My therapist, says "midlife crisis". After he moved out, we kept the business going (it still wasn't officially mine yet, it was all still new and in the process of being taken over) and we let them stay on for almost another 2 months - in hopes, that he would soon realize what mistake was made... I gave him so many choices, chances and hopes that it would be OK - we would get through this. This went on for 2 months - at which point, he had me served with divorce papers. At this point, is when my family (since it was still their business) and I, had to make the decision - to fire the woman, and explain to my then husband that he was welcome to stay - and run the business, and hope that we would work it out. He said no, and he followed the woman out the door. 

My family and I were sent emails from ex - telling us, that we "shattered his, and hers dreams" and we would never be forgiven. I told him many times, what about our dreams? It was our dream to own a business, and run it together. But no, it was no longer about "us" - it was him, and her. There was never any, Thanks for letting me run around on you, and your daughter - while you provided me and her with well paying jobs + benefits. It was - pure hate and evil. 

I know its complicated, I still can't wrap my head around it. It was a complete and utter mess, something that took me by surprise.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Long walk, I am looking for a place to post the story on my son and the situation going on with him. 

He is actually doing very well. I know he is happy at home, he doesn't completely understand what happened. He knows a little bit (because he saw them together on a day months after he moved out), but of course he blames the woman - not his father - to him, his Dad does no wrong and it kills me to hear him talk like that --- but, I allow this, because I'm not going to bad mouth his father. I hope one day, he realizes the truth a little more. He knows I'm here for him, he knows I am ready to listen anytime he wants it. I've taken him to counseling, if he wants to talk - and he really doesn't, he just seems "A-OK" with it, completely mature about it.

For a long while, after the initial separation - his father, made very little time - if any - to visit his son. I had to beg his father to spend more time with him. I almost regret this now, b/c now - he takes him for visitation (which we have set up) and he leaves him here and there, or alone with his roomates - while he goes out with this woman. I'm always getting texts from son, telling me "Dads not here". More often than not, son is alone. And, I would do anything, at all - to have him here with me. He only takes him, so I can't have him. He has no job, no responsibilities 7 days a week, only sees his son a couple hours a week, and every other weekend - and when he does get him - he leaves him with people?

I don't like it. I pretty much pleaded with ex - to just let me have him, I would never say another word about him not spending time with his son. Just go back to, taking him when you can. The final straw was, when he took my son from me, the night before Christmas Eve - and all of Christmas Eve day - and I found out, my son spent a lot of it - alone.


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## SleeplessInTO (Nov 10, 2014)

I am sorry that you have to be in this situation.

Just based on what I read in your posts, it sounds like your soon-to-be-ex-husband has not really grown up.

I really don't know a lot about relationships, but it seems like you tried to get the marriage back but he wanted to push you away but keep your money/business. 

I can't really give any advice on how to move on but you definitely are not to blame here. You seem to have tried everything and he has rejected your effort time and again, without telling you why. Please try to remove all regrets.. I know, easier said than done, but please try. He is the one who hurt you, not the other way around.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Lost40 said:


> he just suddenly became a different person.


Hi lost, 
I can tell from your post that you are a very capable and decent woman, trust your intuition I think your judgment will be on target as you go through this.

Listen the above quote is one of the most oft-repeated statements by betrayed spouses on this board, "They changed, it's like they are a whole different person, etc"

Cheating changes you, perhaps pressures like a midlife crisis, but on some level he was using you because he is a user.

Also don't underestimate the role guilt plays in changing a person. I think this explains the majority of the changes a spouse will see.

People tend to balance guilt with blame (like on a balance scale) to try and resolve their inner turmoil, it results in a very dark personality and some really crazy rationalizations.

(Btw don't read that as "he feels guilty and is rethinking his actions", probably not!)

When we are a good person and we love someone we tend to just trust and think well of them, if they are not honest with us (or with themselves) they can easily take advantage of the unconditional love they are given.

It's not a failure on our part, other than realizing that while our love may be unconditional marriage relationships are not. We can mistakenly put someone on a pedestal.

Also you may feel that giving an ultimatum was a strategic mistake, but please don't believe that it resulted in the ultimate outcome, he was heading in this direction anyway, he is lamenting that you ruined "their dreams", he was going to cake eat, and ultimately I think he would have done more harm to you to benefit themselves.

You had a personal boundary "its her or me" I respect that, and if he wanted to keep the relationship with you (even if just to cake eat) he would have responded much differently, we see it here again and again. He was already done, and he was just not a decent enough person to treat you kindly.

I can feel your concern for your son, any parent can emphasize, update us some more on what is going on there when you can.

Glad you are seeing a therapist, keep relying on people who care about you for support, it is clear from your posting that your life matters in so many ways, I can see the pain but your character comes through as well.

Take care!


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

One thing I think is keeping you hung up is that you're imagining that the pos OW got this great guy and has the perfect life you should have. Except that she didn't; she got a pos, who is still invested enough emotionally in you to feel the need to needle you. Remember that the opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference, and she's got a guy that's not only a cheating pos that walked out on his family and is still invested emotionally in his ex. He's probably upset he had to choose, he would've kept you both. Feel sorry for her that she got such a scumbag and be glad that you're free of it.

And if he's making that much effort to tell you how happy he is it's probably a lie. Make sure you give him no reaction at all.....cry in private if you need to but give him no reaction. Don't communicate with him at all unless it's kid related. If you stop feeding his ego by reacting he'll stop.

Don't be surprised if when things with his wh0re go south he decides he wants his family and cries about how sorry he is. Think long and hard about why you'd want him back now that you know how little you mean to him. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

You fell into the trap of loving him unconditionally, and the more attached you are, the more you suffered. Your self-esteem is so low, that you allowed him to treat you that way, and your willing to take him back. You made your identity so wrapped around him, that you cannot see him as his own separate entity. Look at what you were willing to accept as a husband. You cannot look at the past and judge him, but you have to see him as he is now. You cannot accept the reality of who he is, and you rather accept what once was. When you think of him, your trapped in the past. 

You have to stop contacting him, and focus on yourself. Start making new friends, be with supportive family members, find new hobbies, and learn to be your own person again. You have to figure out what you want out of life as an individual. You have to accept the fact that he was never really a part of you. You are you, and you lost sight of that somewhere. If you find new things to do, find some kind of charity, or do things like working out, it will help boost your self-esteem. You also have to reaffirm that you do have good qualities that someone will cherish. Look at what you wrote, and, and accept that this is theperson he is now. Start living on the facts, and not on what you hope the facts will be.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Lost40 said:


> My family and I were sent emails from ex - telling us, that we "shattered his, and hers dreams" and we would never be forgiven. I told him many times, what about our dreams? It was our dream to own a business, and run it together. But no, it was no longer about "us" - it was him, and her. There was never any, Thanks for letting me run around on you, and your daughter - while you provided me and her with well paying jobs + benefits. It was - pure hate and evil.


What???

Were they thinking that they would take the business away from you? 

People can be very strange.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Thank you everyone for responding. I can see this place will be a huge help for me. It seems I just can't stop talking about it, but the more I talk - the better I feel. Does that make sense?

Decorum - Thank you for your wise words, I do feel like the ultimatum was a mistake - b/c I gave him the chance to say "her" - but, at the same time - who does that to their wife and family? I mean, not only was he telling me - I choose her, he told his son (not directly) I choose her. I mean, we were a family. He broke that. My son blames the OW (I assume this means, other woman) and says to me "Why couldn't she go make her own family?" That was the single most difficult thing I've heard him say yet. It was heart wrenching. Sometimes I lay in bed at night, and all I can think about is - Wow. What did I do wrong to fail my son? I failed as the wife of his Father, and now because of me - his father is gone. That is what goes through my head at times. It's my biggest struggle in therapy. Letting go of the guilt, guilt I shouldn't have.

Lifestooshort - that is a good possibility you bring up. Picturing him and this OW, having the life the two of us used to have (prior to all this madness). You know, my therapist has said the very same thing both you and Decorum have said. What angers him, and the reason he is being so hateful is - because, he thought he was getting the best of both worlds. Financially security through you, and cute - young - (in her 20's) girl who is all of a sudden attracted to, a 40 year old man. He said, it angers him greatly - that he couldn't have his cake and eat it too. 

I think that is what hurts the most - how can he possibly, be detached from me anymore than physically? It doesn't seem to make logical sense to me. How can you have the memories, the love, the friendship, the everything - we had - for as long as we had it -- and just like that - be sleeping in bed with another woman? I don't understand it at all. But he is... and every time I think of him and her - it's rejection all over again. But - it's hard not to think about it - when my poor son, texts me while supposed to be with his father - and tells me, his dad is "gone". We all know where he is... maybe my son doesn't, but I sure as hell do. He has no job - which means no money. So he sure as hell isn't out shopping.

So its rejection, to picture this. He tells me, he "moved on" and I don't understand how you can do that so fast.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

It's not clear from your posts how long ago you found out about their affair. How long has it been?

I think you said that it's been about 5 months since he left you. Is that right?

There is nothing unusual about the amount of time you have being going through this emotional aguish. 5 months is hardly a drop in the bucket of what it can take to heal and move on from an affair and him walking out on you.


It takes 2-5 years to recover from an affair. But since you are not trying to rebuild your marriage, the time you need to recover will most likely be on the shorter end, 1-2 years.

When a relationship breaks up, without infidelity, it takes about 1 year. You are not even half way through that 1 year.

The reason it takes about a year is body chemistry. while you feel it's completely emotional, it's actually physical. Here is an article that explain what you are going through.

Why Break Up Hurts How to Get Over a Break Up or Divorce | Heal a Broken Heart

While it might not feel like it, you are actually doing very well based on what you wrote. Worrying about how long it's taking is probably hurting you more. So stop the worrying. Recovery is a process. Work through it one day at a time.
.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Lost40 said:


> Thank you everyone for responding. I can see this place will be a huge help for me. It seems I just can't stop talking about it, but the more I talk - the better I feel. Does that make sense?


Yes it does make sense.

Since talking helps, why not try journaling... either on paper or on your computer. 

I do it in MS Word on the computer because I type closer to the speed my brain works. I write slow.

The way that I find the most beneficial is to just sit at the keyboard start a stream of consciousness dump... just type always, typing out my thoughts. 

Usually by the time I get the words all out, I've also thought it all through and feel a lot better. Often, if it's a problem I'm typing about, I've come up with the solution.

I seldom keep these rants.. just getting them out of my head is what I need. I would never go back and read them. I know some people keep them. It's your choice of course.

And of course posting on TAM can be a lot of help... getting feedback from others is great.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

You still have an attachment to him. It is the bonding hormones that is still flowing through your system, keeping you bonded to him. This takes time to wear out. His infatuation with the younger woman impaired the moral center of his brain. The infatuation stage is an obsessive one. The ego stroke, having a new girl without the added stress of life, gave a high boost to the reward center of his brain. To chase those feel good hormones, he will nearly do anything to get it, including treating you like dirt, because you have become an obstacle for his hormonal high.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> What???
> 
> Were they thinking that they would take the business away from you?
> 
> People can be very strange.



Yes, actually they were. He gave me an deal, back when this all was still going on. He said "If you want to make this marriage work, I want you (to sell me the company) put the business in my name, and give me 6 months of alone time, and then we'll start working on our marriage. But right now, I need space. If things don't work out, you'll still get 50/50 anyway - because in a divorce, that is what happens - everything is split 50/50"

So... I said, I think you have this wrong. Let's work on our marriage first, and then we'll put the business in both of our names. 

He said no. The only way he would do it, was the first option. 

It didn't seem to make sense, it was scary - b/c how did we (when I say we, I mean me and my family - b/c it was a family business being passed down) know, he would stick by his word? But, we were willing to give it a try. However, this is when we realized he was sleeping with her (we had proof). So, the plug was pulled.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Lost40 said:


> I think that is what hurts the most - *how can he possibly, be detached from me anymore than physically?* It doesn't seem to make logical sense to me. *How can you have the memories, the love, the friendship, the everything - we had - for as long as we had it -- and just like that - be sleeping in bed with another woman? *I don't understand it at all. But he is... and every time I think of him and her - it's rejection all over again. But - it's hard not to think about it - when my poor son, texts me while supposed to be with his father - and tells me, his dad is "gone". We all know where he is... maybe my son doesn't, but I sure as hell do. He has no job - which means no money. So he sure as hell isn't out shopping.


It makes perfect sense. 

We are chemical engines. Brain chemicals like phenylethylamine (PEA), dopamine, oxytocin, norepinephrine, serotonin and adrenaline are what makes us feel lust, love, attachment, trust, etc.

Your husband entered into an affair that the OW. This caused his brain and body to start producing bucket loads of those chemicals. They are the best feel-good chemicals that exist. Becase of oxytocin he became quickly bonded to her.. so anytime he is around her or hears her voice, his brain/body produce a huge hit of those chemicals. 

It's like a drug addiction. Lover self-medicate by being near each other. 

Additionally, oxytocin is often called the amnesia hormone. 

So when he's with her, thinks of her, or hears her voice, he gets a fix of all the drugs. And the oxytocin overload makes him for get everything about any relationship other than his with her.

He's high as a kite on the chemicals that his body produces. New love makes us feel great because we are high. And we self medicate by seeking out the person we are 'in love' with to get more fixes.

And yes there are studies that prove this is true.

Some other interesting things about oxytocin and amnesia.

Oxytocin is the chemical that makes you bond to your baby. It's also the chemical that helps a woman forget the pain of child birth. If it were not for oxytocin, no woman would have a second child, the memory of the pain would scare the living daylights out of her.

It's also one of the reasons that abused women (women make more oxytocin then men) stay with their abuser. The woman is confused chemically because she is in love with the abuser but he hurts her. When they interact, her body produces more oxytocin and this makes her forget the intensity of the abuse.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Lost40 said:


> Yes, actually they were. He gave me an deal, back when this all was still going on. He said "If you want to make this marriage work, I want you (to sell me the company) put the business in my name, and give me 6 months of alone time, and then we'll start working on our marriage. But right now, I need space. If things don't work out, you'll still get 50/50 anyway - because in a divorce, that is what happens - everything is split 50/50"
> 
> So... I said, I think you have this wrong. Let's work on our marriage first, and then we'll put the business in both of our names.
> 
> ...


Boy, he's a piece of work. What a con he tried to pull on you. I'm glad that your family was able to work things so that he did not get the business. You are one smart lady to have not fallen for that con job.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Lost40 said:


> Thank you everyone for responding. I can see this place will be a huge help for me. It seems I just can't stop talking about it, but the more I talk - the better I feel. Does that make sense?
> 
> Decorum - Thank you for your wise words, I do feel like the ultimatum was a mistake - b/c I gave him the chance to say "her" - but, at the same time - who does that to their wife and family? I mean, not only was he telling me - I choose her, he told his son (not directly) I choose her. I mean, we were a family. He broke that. My son blames the OW (I assume this means, other woman) and says to me "Why couldn't she go make her own family?" That was the single most difficult thing I've heard him say yet. It was heart wrenching. Sometimes I lay in bed at night, and all I can think about is - Wow. What did I do wrong to fail my son? I failed as the wife of his Father, and now because of me - his father is gone. That is what goes through my head at times. It's my biggest struggle in therapy. Letting go of the guilt, guilt I shouldn't have.
> 
> ...


Why do you assume he is completely detached from you? Who cares what he tells you, if he told you the sky was green would you believe him? His actions suggest he's not, but you forced his hand when you made him choose and he called your bluff because he assumed that you'd fold. He thinks you're a doormat, and to be honest you've behaved like one so I can see why he'd think that. Heck, you were willing to hand over your business to hold onto him.....you should probably get some therapy to find out why you'd be willing to do that. Where would you draw your line? What if he told you that he'd come back if you signed a postnup giving him everything if you ever forced him to choose between you and his sk!nk? Would you do it just to have him back? Where is your line? 

The likelihood of things working out with his wh0re are pretty slim, he's a 40 year old guy who moved in with her. Why would a 20 something want that unless she can mooch money off of him? I know many 40 something year old guys imagine they're a great catch and 20 somethings will be falling all over them but the truth is there's usually a money motive behind it. And he's bringing a lot of baggage for a 20 something to handle.....eventually she'll find a younger guy and dump him.

Pay no more attention to him.....treat him like the nobody he is. It feeds his ego to imagine that a 20 something wants him and his wife is ruining her life pining for him. Think of him as the pathetic pos he is.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Most people mistake love as an emotion, but it is nothing more than a hormonal system. They did a study on rats where they inhibit the oxytocin in the mother rats, and they became indifferent to their own offspring. They did this study somewhat with couples, where they synthetically increase the oxytocin in couples during therapy. There was a noticeable increase on couples working on their issues. They were more willing to listen, compromise, and be attentive to one another. Love, lust, attachment overlaps with the part of the brain that also affects addiction.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> It's not clear from your posts how long ago you found out about their affair. How long has it been?
> 
> I think you said that it's been about 5 months since he left you. Is that right?
> 
> ...



Thank you, that is very helpful to read. I will read the link you provided - I love to read, I've read so much - I could keep reading too. I think that is what my therapist is most concerned with, why I'm worried about how long its taking - he said "It takes as long as it takes... there is no time limit, you're doing fine" --- but, I think Christmas really really shook me up.

Yes, it will be 5 months, in 2 days that he left. I found out about the "emotional affair" in late February, Early March. I wasn't convinced yet until April. I turned 40 in April. He was going to take me out to a nice lunch, and then we were going out that evening for a fun night. I showed up to lunch, and he brought her along. I thought that was strange, but I accepted it. Then, he texted me around 5 that night and said he was running a little behind - he'd be home in 20 minutes. Well, he didn't come home until 7:30. By then I was so irate - I refused to go anywhere. 

Then, in May - her birthday - he took her out to lunch, and I said I should probably go - and he said "No... it's a business lunch" and I said, she came to mine... I'll go. Well, he left before I got there. He bought her a gift (I didn't get a gift for my 40th - which is no big deal) - and he decorated the office all up with streamers and balloons. That is when I knew for sure.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Mr.Fisty said:


> You fell into the trap of loving him unconditionally, and the more attached you are, the more you suffered. Your self-esteem is so low, that you allowed him to treat you that way, and your willing to take him back. You made your identity so wrapped around him, that you cannot see him as his own separate entity. Look at what you were willing to accept as a husband. You cannot look at the past and judge him, but you have to see him as he is now. .


You're right. That is excellent advice. Here, I thought love was about being unconditional. I guess I have a lot to learn. 

Yes, he pulled my self-esteem down to zero. I am starting to learn through therapy - that he was actually more controlling than I originally ever thought. He knew how to pull my strings to get me to react certain ways - and then use my reactions against me later type of thing.

I went about this all wrong, and I think I know that - and perhaps this is what my pain is about. I feel therapy isn't really working, b/c it seems I should know more - than I do, by now.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

What you all are saying about a chemical addiction to love, lust, attention. Does this ever go away - so for example - this chemical high he is on right now for the OW - will that go away? 

I want to see him actually regretting what he's done... but, in a Karma kinda way. Where like, wow - I left my loving doting wife (and obviously I was this way too much - from what I'm reading here) and I left her for this OW - who isn't who I thought she was, etc. etc. Now I sit here alone and miserable?

I hope so.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> Why do you assume he is completely detached from you? Who cares what he tells you, if he told you the sky was green would you believe him? His actions suggest he's not, but you forced his hand when you made him choose and he called your bluff because he assumed that you'd fold. He thinks you're a doormat, and to be honest you've behaved like one so I can see why he'd think that. Heck, you were willing to hand over your business to hold onto him.....you should probably get some therapy to find out why you'd be willing to do that. Where would you draw your line? What if he told you that he'd come back if you signed a postnup giving him everything if you ever forced him to choose between you and his sk!nk? Would you do it just to have him back? Where is your line?
> 
> The likelihood of things working out with his wh0re are pretty slim, he's a 40 year old guy who moved in with her. Why would a 20 something want that unless she can mooch money off of him? I know many 40 something year old guys imagine they're a great catch and 20 somethings will be falling all over them but the truth is there's usually a money motive behind it. And he's bringing a lot of baggage for a 20 something to handle.....eventually she'll find a younger guy and dump him.
> 
> Pay no more attention to him.....treat him like the nobody he is. It feeds his ego to imagine that a 20 something wants him and his wife is ruining her life pining for him. Think of him as the pathetic pos he is.


I assume he is detached, because of the email he sent me 2 weeks ago - telling me that I was nothing to him - I was no longer a part of his life in any capacity. That, he had moved on and made new friends and re-acquainted with old ones - and his friends and family tell him how happy he is now. Then he ended it with, don't ever contact me again - do it through our attorneys. Then, I haven't heard from him since that. It's like he doesn't care... 

I don't know why I do. I think that is what really angers me the most about myself - is WHY do I care? I guess because, everything I thought we had - was never really the truth. He used me, and conned me - and used me as a doormat - I agree with your statement. I was his doormat, b/c for one - I allowed it. I guess at the time, I didn't realize what I was doing.

Yes - I was willing to do anything to save our marriage - and keep our family together. To me, my son was most important, and I thought I was doing what was best for him - keeping his Dad around - and keeping my husband who I thought loved me - b/c I surely loved him.

I don't know. It's a mess. Yes - I am in therapy - I go to therapy once a week, and have been for 5 months. I've gone every other week only a few times. Of course, I haven't been for 2 weeks now - b/c of Christmas - he went on vacation. Bad time of year for him to leave me (my therapist) - but, I don't hold it against him. He has a life.  lol


The Good news is? I have become a much stronger person through this. I have gone through things I never thought I could have ever gone through. And, I did it all with strength for the most part. Sure - I've cheated with therapy, books, tears and using family/friends for support - but, I did it. I'm just stuck right now... and feels like I've stopped moving forward... heck, I even feel like I've gone backwards.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Lost40 said:


> What you all are saying about a chemical addiction to love, lust, attention. Does this ever go away - so for example - this chemical high he is on right now for the OW - will that go away?
> 
> I want to see him actually regretting what he's done... but, in a Karma kinda way. Where like, wow - I left my loving doting wife (and obviously I was this way too much - from what I'm reading here) and I left her for this OW - who isn't who I thought she was, etc. etc. Now I sit here alone and miserable?
> 
> I hope so.


97% of affairs end within 2 years of starting. It's already been a year or more. It's highly unlikely that they will last much longer.

Those chemical changes that cause us to feel that giddy "in love" feeling last for 18-24 months. After that the chemical mix changes and things start to settle into a more mature, long term kind of love. Well people get into affair for the giddy "in love" thing. So the relationships fall apart. Very often when on of them cheats on the other.

Who all besides your family know about the affair? 

I assume that she is not married.

I don't recall.. his family?

What about friends?


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

My family and friends all know. I'm not sure what his family knows. They refuse to contact me, they haven't contacted me once in all of this. Not one of them. I have a feeling, his parents kind of know and if they know - they all know. But - I'm not positive on this. I do know, EX denied it for a long time - he has finally admitted (to me) to living with her and sleeping with her since he moved out - but only b/c of the divorce - so why not - but before, no way! (yeah right) So, IMO - he has told them, that was what I accused him of - but it's untrue. So, its at least floating in their minds.

He sent an email to her parents - apologizing for my jealousy, and resulting in her losing her job, and that he would stand by her and represent her to the best of his ability - and she would always be a friend to him and he would be there for whenever he needed her, blah blah blah (I saw the actual email, he sent it to me - why I don't know, to upset me I guess). Which was ridiculous - but the last I heard - they never replied to him, and I was blamed once a couple months ago - for now making her family think their daughter is a mistress. I said I did nothing of the sorts, you're the dummy for sending them a stupid email - what do you think they would think of such a creepy thing? He doesn't make sense.

No, she wasn't married - no kids.


That is another painful thing. In my entire 14 year marriage - I never ever had been accused of being jealous. I never even questioned him, and his loyalty to me. Which is proof right there, that when it did become an issue - that, I was not just being jealous - b/c I'm not the jealous type. I never have been, and certainly never with him. I trusted him with my life.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Lost40 said:


> What you all are saying about a chemical addiction to love, lust, attention. Does this ever go away - so for example - this chemical high he is on right now for the OW - will that go away?
> 
> I want to see him actually regretting what he's done... but, in a Karma kinda way. Where like, wow - I left my loving doting wife (and obviously I was this way too much - from what I'm reading here) and I left her for this OW - who isn't who I thought she was, etc. etc. Now I sit here alone and miserable?
> 
> I hope so.



The truth is, your going to have periods like the holidays where nostalgic thoughts and memories will make you feel the loss. Your actually, yourself, working through the hormones of love you feel for him. Your going through withdrawal like symptoms as if you were on drugs, which in a way you are. Create major goals for yourself, and break them down to little manageable goals. The journey may seem so daunting, but it is made of many steps. Your too focus on the end goal instead of focusing on what the next few steps should be.

As for why you should never love anyone unconditionally. It gives you an unrealistic view of the reality of who they are. Your perception of the man he is can be skewed by your bias opinion. People are nothing more than illusionary constructs of what we know and precieve them as. Obviously, the image, or construct that you have created in your mind does not match the reality of who he is. You probably thought that he is not capable of ever doing this. Your assumptions of him was simply wrong. Just like the initial pain of what you went through, I am sure you thought that you cannot live without him, but your emotions at the time clouded your reasoning. As you take a more detach view of him as you slowly become more indifferent towards him, you will see that he was not this great person you thought he was. The only thing we can know about people is what they show and express, and sometimes it is just a false reality. Every time he lied to you, without you knowing it, or the thoughts he hides from you, you really do not have a complete picture of his true self, and that person he is can change quite drastically as well.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Lost40 said:


> My family and friends all know. I'm not sure what his family knows. They refuse to contact me, they haven't contacted me once in all of this. Not one of them. I have a feeling, his parents kind of know and if they know - they all know. But - I'm not positive on this. I do know, EX denied it for a long time - he has finally admitted (to me) to living with her and sleeping with her since he moved out - but only b/c of the divorce - so why not - but before, no way! (yeah right) So, IMO - he has told them, that was what I accused him of - but it's untrue. So, its at least floating in their minds.
> 
> He sent an email to her parents - apologizing for my jealousy, and resulting in her losing her job, and that he would stand by her and represent her to the best of his ability - and she would always be a friend to him. Which was ridiculous - but the last I heard - they never replied to him, and I was blamed once a couple months ago - for now making her family think their daughter is a mistress. I said I did nothing of the sorts, you're the dummy for sending them a stupid email - what do you think they would think of such a creepy thing? He doesn't make sense..


Shoot, I would have written her parents, told them the entire story, how long the affair went on, that she and he did this right under your nose and that they tried to steal your business. That she shares a large part of the responsibility for your son's family being broken up. Then I would have asked them, if at all possible, to encourage her to end her relationship with your husband and your son's father.

So what if it gets him and her angry. Anger will help destroy their relationship.



Lost40 said:


> No, she wasn't married - no kids.
> 
> 
> That is another painful thing. In my entire 14 year marriage - I never ever had been accused of being jealous. I never even questioned him, and his loyalty to me. Which is proof right there, that when it did become an issue - that, I was not just being jealous - b/c I'm not the jealous type. I never have been, and certainly never with him. I trusted him with my life.


You do not have to justify to anyone about whether or not you are jealous. Your husband and this tramp destroyed your marriage. Jealousy? No.. .how about good, old fashion justified anger that he would betray you and that she, who you gave a job to, would stab you in the back and destroy your son's family.

Nope not jealous of the tramp. Angry at the family wrecker and your stbx.

That's what my response would be. 

How often does your stbx see your son?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

So let him stand with her. Let him go down with her..... not your problem anymore. Repeat after me: f!ck him and the horse he rode in on. 

Why don't you send her parents an email telling them that their daughter helped blow up a family and now has a 40 year old scumbag living with her. When he blows up over it either ignore him or tell him that they deserved to know who their daughter was dealing with. Then block him. Don't give him any more reactions to anything. 

And fyi: I turned 40 in April too. April of '74 was a good vintage 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Ele & Life - Yes, I know - I probably should've sent something to them back when - it's probably too late now. One of my biggest worries through this divorce is, staying low-key and killing people with kindness, b/c my son is most important and the last thing I wanted to do was risk losing him in custody battles. 

It ends up, the ex gave me full custody - residential parent. My attorney found that odd - she said this almost never happens voluntarily. He does get way too much visitation (10 hours a week - basically 2 nights, 5 hours each) and every other weekend. The reason I consider this too much is, because I am starting to find out - that he merely picks him up - and takes him somewhere and drops him off. Doesn't spend much, if any time with him. When I found this out, it made me livid. I would do anything to have him here with me 100% of the time - and it's like he can't get rid of him fast enough. He only takes him, to piss me off. That is why he takes him at all.

Every time my son comes home after his weekend visit - he just looks confused and dazed. Like - what did I just do? I'm taken away from my home, to go stay with people I don't know? It really really makes me mad, and I'm hoping - that being I am full custodial parent - I have a say in this.

I've read horror stories about one parent or the other, making life miserable and hell for the other - while the children were in their care. I don't do that. Ex certainly doesn't, but he could care less about his child one way or another. I really don't do it. The only thing that bothers me, is when he hurts my sons feelings by - never calling, or texting first (he only replies - and that is intermittent) - or asking him about his games - or coming to watch him in sports. Then I get mad. But, usually all I do is send a text letting him know, he should make more of an effort in showing his son he cares about his games. I won't do this anymore, b/c all I'm doing is helping him look better - and why should I? I guess because I don't want to see my son hurt.

I'm done... you're right lifestooshort, I need to repeat after you. It's like I know I need to wake up and smell the coffee - but, something is holding me back.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Those with children in their divorce battles. Do you mind sharing with me, am I being unreasonable with my concerns. Is it none of my business, what he does with our son on his time - so long as its nothing dangerous.

I mean, here is what happened. I got a text friday night, asking me where to find the medicine (my son had the flu) and what the dosing was. I said, it's all there in the bag - and I repeated the dosing instructions. I said, please make sure he drinks a full glass of water with his pills - they are large pills. I said, does he have a fever? Yes. I was told. 

Well, I then found out - he admitted it - that he was actually not there. He was only relaying my message to whoever was watching my sick kid. So, I texted my son - and I said - how are you doing? He said "ok" - I said what are you doing? He said, just sitting here watching TV - dad is gone again. 

Ok... well........... That is just too much for me. Is it none of my business?

I don't even know the people who are watching him! My son doesn't even know them really, outside of just knowing them b/c they live with all of them. It's 4 or 5 adults living in 1 small house, with 1 full time child and my son, part time. I hate it.

I mean this is Christmas time, and he is only a kid - and there he sits with people he doesn't know, in a home where he doesn't feel loved - while his dad runs around with some OW. I don't get it, I don't understand why this is fair. There has to be something I can do, but its so touchy - b/c I have to be careful with my son. He obviously loves his Dad.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I have kids and my ex will feed them but otherwise doesn't take care of anything. His sister noticed that my younger son was laying on the couch burning up while my ex played at his computer.....I'm glad she was there and contacted me.

I have taught my kids that where their health needs are concerned they have to somewhat look out for themselves, they are a little older then your son so that will come over the next few years with him. My older son has asthma and looks after his own issues. My idiot ex tried to give them aspirin so I've told them both that they are not to take aspirin. If they need me they call me and I"ll show up there, I could care less what ex thinks about that. Fortunately he usually calls me when they need something and brings them back.

Why don't you start documenting every time your ex drops him off with someone else, then file a motion to reduce visitation? Tell the judge that he drops him off with people he doesn't know and you're concerned for his safety. The judge will likely talk to your son in private and find out what's going on.

Nobody is going to take custody of your son from you, your ex will threaten because you've allowed him to bully you, but if there's one thing I've learned about a bully (my ex was one) it's that they'll fold as soon as you tell them to f!ck off.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Thanks lifestooshort. He is a bully, and he knows exactly how to pull my strings. He knows how to get me nervous and worked up.

I'm having a bad day again... Of course it doesn't help to see him when we do pick up/drop off - or at my sons games which he happened to come to this weekend, only because he had son this weekend and he knew he had to stay b/c I was there.


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## dirio-girl (Aug 25, 2014)

Lost40 said:


> I'd like to share my story. I hope someone can shed some light on this for me, and I hope I can return the favor when time heals my pain - but for now, the days are standing still - and I think something is wrong. I'm starting to feel like I will never "get over him". I think I'm being punished somehow and this is my fate for the rest of my life. I wish I could say, this just happened a month ago - but it's been much longer. It's been just shy of 5 months, and I'm still on this roller coaster of emotions. Why?! This can't be normal. I've taken all the right steps. I've been to therapy once a week, for the entire 5 months (this alone is becoming pricey!). I've been put on medication to help me overcome my situational depression/anxiety. I've read many books. I have supportive family and friends. I honestly think I'm incapable of moving on, and what kills me the most is - I allow him to place the blame on me. I don't let him know, I accept it - but, I find myself telling myself over and over - If I only..... this, If I only.... that. Was I that bad of a wife? Was it the fighting we did (that is what he blames it on)? Should've I lost weight? Should've I this, Should've I that? It's never ending.
> 
> Sometimes I think I'm moving on. I feel like I've been through all the stages - only to find myself back at the beginning again.
> 
> ...


Hello. I read your story and it was like I was reading mine. They're almost identical.
I know exactly how you feel. It's been 6 months since my H left home. Our baby was only 6 months old and for a long time I didn't know what to do. I spent entire days doing just the basic things for surviving. And I was breastfeeding at that time, my baby was starting to eat other stuff, so mother milk was her main "food". I was skin and bones because I didnt eat enough nor sleep enough.

I guess each person has a different time to recover. I thought I had moved on since august, just because I didn't want him anymore. But the truth is that there's a long path between not wanting him anymore and be recovered. Christmas showed me this, that I wasn't recovered at all. But I'm on the way and so do you.

Now my baby has just turned 1 and things are a little easier. I'm enjoying being single again, sleeping in bed alone (rather than wake up at night missing him), going out with my girl friends, making new friends. At first it seemed selfish to let my baby with someone and go out to have fun, but I've been through a lot and I usually do this when she's sleeping, so I'm not stealing her time with me.

I'm really curious to know what will happen in my H's new relationship. And now, I'm curious to know about your H's too. I think your H and mine will still give us reasons to laugh on them. Tomorrow my H is travelling abroad with his loved mistress. Hope she spends all his money. Luckly I dont need it.

Sorry for my bad english. There's nothing like TAM in my mother tongue, so I have to bother you here


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## dirio-girl (Aug 25, 2014)

Oh, another thing: I knew a great guy in a volunteer job, we talked a lot and he told me this: "Never let him know you're miserable. Always look happy and preety. The worst thing for a man is to find his woman better than when he left".

When my daughter turned 1, I wasn't going to celebrate. But I changed my mind when I thought that she and I had A LOT to celebrate. So I did a little party. I was so happy and beautiful and he... he was a mess!


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Just keeping looking at your ex with pity and remember that he's a pathetic pos, and remember that those who lay with dogs will eventually get fleas. The more you pity him the less he'll be able to push your buttons.....think of it like a little kids with special needs that says mean things. You don't take it personally and feel bad for them because you know they have challenges, and you hope they get better. He's nothing and that's what his ho got. Nothing.


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## Johnconrad (Dec 23, 2014)

Lost40 said:


> Thanks lifestooshort. He is a bully, and he knows exactly how to pull my strings. He knows how to get me nervous and worked up.
> 
> I'm having a bad day again... Of course it doesn't help to see him when we do pick up/drop off - or at my sons games which he happened to come to this weekend, only because he had son this weekend and he knew he had to stay b/c I was there.


Lost,

One reason this is difficult is your focus is entirely on him.

What are you doing for you?


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Lost40 said:


> Thanks lifestooshort. He is a bully, and he knows exactly how to pull my strings. He knows how to get me nervous and worked up.
> 
> I'm having a bad day again... Of course it doesn't help to see him when we do pick up/drop off - or at my sons games which he happened to come to this weekend, only because he had son this weekend and he knew he had to stay b/c I was there.




(Nodding my head in an understanding way) yeah the times of contact will will be troubling for you sometimes. 

The opposite of love is not hate but indifference, at that point your buttons will not be as accessible to him but its a painful path to get there. 

Hopefully someday he will just be someone you were married to once and the level of frustration will be roughly equivalent to say some bonehead school administrator who is making poor choices regarding one of your children; it's annoying, complicated, requires your involvement but you can deal with each situation and move on.




Johnconrad said:


> Lost,
> 
> One reason this is difficult is your focus is entirely on him.
> 
> What are you doing for you?



:iagree:

Yep, just want to offer support as you go through this.

Take care!


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Dirio - Thank you for sharing your improvements, that helps to hear that you are about where I am in recovery - and its getting easier for you. I'm glad you told me this. As far as the OW relationship - I don't know. I know that whatever he tells me is merely to upset me - and get me jealous, so I can't really believe anything he says. Even though I do tend to believe what he tells me.

What your friend told you, about not showing them you're miserable. I've already flunked that game. That is where I kick myself, and maybe even why I am having a hard time with this - b/c I know I screwed up there. I wish I had come here long before the marriage was "over". I would've read that 180 thing I hear a lot about, and I think I could've managed to do well at that. Is it too late now, to start that? Probably, because he's already onto ignoring me and we're just about final in our divorce. I've never shown him I cry or look sad - when we see each other for child related things. I think I show myself with courage, strength and dignity. My issue was in the emails, or texts - I tried so hard to get him to apologize. He never did. 

Lifestooshort - that is a good example, I will try harder to pity him. lol. I will say, he does look pitiful when you see him. He doesn't look happy at all, he lost a lot of weight (he wasn't heavy to begin with), he looks depressed almost - and very sour. Of course, when I see that - I assume its because I am in his presence and that is the way he wants me to see him, so he thinks I think, its because he hates me. My parents told me, no its because he is miserable/unhappy. 

John - I do focus too much on him. I agree. I was hoping this was something therapy would help me with - showing me how to focus on other things, but it really hasn't. All he really says is, stay busy busy busy. Which I do try to do, and it helps sometimes - sometimes when I'm busy I don't even think of him for the entire day. However - as soon as I'm alone again - my thoughts are back on him at least somewhat - it is getting better. 

I've done some for myself, but I don't think enough. I don't know if I know how - for the past 13-14 years -my life revolved around him, and our son. My life still revolves around my son.


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## Johnconrad (Dec 23, 2014)

Lost,

What were some of they activities and interests you surrendered when you became a wife/mother?


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

John - I used to do a lot of horseback riding - almost all the time - I still have horses, but I don't ride much anymore, I mainly just have them as pets. I want to start riding again... but, I feel I've lost a lot of confidence, since its been so long. 

I used to go out with friends and party or go somewhere fun - like up to the Lake - but, I lost a lot of my friends when I got married, b/c the ex encouraged me to spend my time with him and his family - he had a lot of siblings, and he thought we should hang out with them. So, we did. I don't even know how to make a friend now - wouldn't have the first clue. 

I mostly just hang out with friends, I dated quite a bit - I was never really serious with anyone, until the ex. And the horseback riding was a big thing.


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## Johnconrad (Dec 23, 2014)

Lost40 said:


> John - I used to do a lot of horseback riding - almost all the time - I still have horses, but I don't ride much anymore, I mainly just have them as pets. I want to start riding again... but, I feel I've lost a lot of confidence, since its been so long.
> 
> I used to go out with friends and party or go somewhere fun - like up to the Lake - but, I lost a lot of my friends when I got married, b/c the ex encouraged me to spend my time with him and his family - he had a lot of siblings, and he thought we should hang out with them. So, we did. I don't even know how to make a friend now - wouldn't have the first clue.
> 
> I mostly just hang out with friends, I dated quite a bit - I was never really serious with anyone, until the ex. And the horseback riding was a big thing.


Get busy with horses. Do what's necessary to get back in the saddle and get your confidence back. Ride on weekends. Join a riding club and meet people.

It will make a world of difference.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

You're right JohnConrad, Thank you. Too bad its winter time here, and just not really riding season anymore, most trails are closed. Hopefully spring will come very very soon. Until then, I need to find something else to keep me occupied.


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## Johnconrad (Dec 23, 2014)

Lost40 said:


> You're right JohnConrad, Thank you. Too bad its winter time here, and just not really riding season anymore, most trails are closed. Hopefully spring will come very very soon. Until then, I need to find something else to keep me occupied.


Start researching the clubs and gets signed up for their spring activities. The happiest people are those that have something in the future they're going to DO.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Lost, I did not see, how old is your son? Depending on his age, he can have say in how much time he spends with his dad. I think its disgusting that his dad leaves him alone like that! That is just so, so wrong! If I were you, I would be fighting to have that visitation order revoked. You can always work with your STBX about times to visit once the orders are no longer in place, its not like your son would be forbidden to see his dad. 

The man is really a piece of work. Be grateful that he is out of your life now,(well..except for your son...) this is NOT the kind of person you need to be sharing your life with! You are only five months out, its perfectly normal that you are not past things yet, take it easy on yourself. Everyone heals at different speeds, and the kind of betrayal you are dealing with is extra bad, so will take more time than other circumstances. Hang in there and keep posting.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

3Xnocharm said:


> Lost, I did not see, how old is your son? Depending on his age, he can have say in how much time he spends with his dad.
> 
> 
> Everyone heals at different speeds, and the kind of betrayal you are dealing with is extra bad, so will take more time than other circumstances. Hang in there and keep posting.


Thank you 3X. My son is 13. I think he is reaching the age, where he is able to start making his own decisions, and my friend told me tonight - that she thinks it is age 15 - so I'm going to check with my attorney.

I am starting to "remember" the good times we had, and its really upsetting me - Why can't I just focus on the bad? I know we had our fights and disagreements, but... we always always worked through them. We were on a vacation a couple years ago, it was one fabulous place - and we laid in a 2-person hammock connected to 2 palm trees, just listening to the ocean, watching the stars - we were completely in love at that moment. I'll never forget, he looked me in the eyes and told me "This is our life... and this is what we have to look forward to" -------------- What happened?! Why did he give all this up, for no good reason?

I had a particularly bad day today, just one thing after the next went wrong. I ended up just pulling over in the next parking lot I came to, put the car in park - and just balled my eyes out. All I wanted to do was pick up the phone and call him, and tell him about my day, like I'd done for 14 years - good and bad, he was there.... not always the nicest to explain things too - short temper for bad things, but he listened. I had no one else to call, so all I could do was cry. 

My family is trying to make me realize, he wasn't the person I thought he was - they could see the real him, and I was blinded by it. They knew he pushed my buttons, to get a rise out of me - or to get his way - but I never saw it. So, now I'm questioning them... Are they lying to me, just to make me feel better? Obviously not, b/c eventually he proved himself right. 

I'm sorry to do this, but... I just don't understand any of it anymore. Being a bad day today, I feel like - the only thing that is right, is my heart - and my heart is telling me - You loved him, go fight for him. But, that didn't work. I know in my heart, I can't take someone like that back - I'm too good to be second best. I shouldn't have to be put on the back burner until a later date - when they realize, they made a mistake.

Do they ever realize they made a mistake?


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Oh, help me understand this. He moved out in July, and he won't come get the rest of his things (the bigger stuff) -- He has 2 larger pieces of furniture he needs to take, and about 500 books - if not more. I have to sit here and look at it, day in and day out - Every time I see them, of course - I think of him. One large piece is no use to me, and all it does it take up an enormous amount of space and it can't be easily moved. The other piece, I can't move either. The books - I simply don't want to pack them up - way too many.

Then we have other things in the house that we would shop for, and decorate our home with. We always shopped together, everything was always together. 

In our county, it is typical and normal - I think standard - to get a temporary restraining order - (both parties get one) - stating you aren't allowed to do this, that or the other. One thing is - not selling or hiding or moving items (out) of the household. You are allowed to do this, if both parties agree. Otherwise no.

Well - I've asked him several times to come get the stuff - he won't. I asked him again recently - and I did it very nice - To get your stuff, and let me get rid of anything you or I don't want. Whatever you want, that I don't - you can have. No problem. We've already agreed upon items we want anyway. 

He wasn't nasty in his reply, but he said "I'd prefer you not - because, I want to wait until everything is final" - Then he said, "if you want me to, I will come put everything in a box (except big things) and put them down in the basement." I said that would be fantastic, thank you. And, he never replied.

Why won't he just come get it and take it, why does it have to go in the basement? Also, why does he want to wait until its "final"? It makes me think, because he has no plan on getting his stuff. I don't know why else he would care --- he's already agreed he doesn't want any of it (except the items he did list) and I just don't see why he cares. Or why he wants it in the basement - personally wouldn't it be easier to move it once?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Your family is right, keep listening to them. Do NOT bother going and try to fight for him, you are better off being on your own. Finding yourself focusing on the good times is normal, I did the same thing after I ended my second marriage. I spent the last two years or so of that marriage in misery, and after I left, all that came to mind was the good stuff. I cried myself to sleep every night for well over a month. Its a process. Try to focus on the positives in your life now that you are without him, because I am quite sure from experience that there are probably A LOT!


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Lost40 said:


> Oh, help me understand this. He moved out in July, and he won't come get the rest of his things (the bigger stuff) -- He has 2 larger pieces of furniture he needs to take, and about 500 books - if not more. I have to sit here and look at it, day in and day out - Every time I see them, of course - I think of him. One large piece is no use to me, and all it does it take up an enormous amount of space and it can't be easily moved. The other piece, I can't move either. The books - I simply don't want to pack them up - way too many.
> 
> Then we have other things in the house that we would shop for, and decorate our home with. We always shopped together, everything was always together.
> 
> ...


So pack it up yourself and either put it in the basement, or tell him he has X number of days to come get it, or you are having a charity come and take ALL of it! Or take the smaller stuff and drop it at his door. There is no reason to sit there staring at it, pack it up. There are many charities out there that will come haul it away. You should do that anyway for the things that neither of you wants, why hang onto it? Start purging the sh!t out, it will help you start to feel better, and will be liberating!


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

I'm not allowed to get rid of it. I have tried many times, my attorney says I have to either get his permission or wait until this ends or I could be going against the R.O. Ex is probably sleazy enough to cause issues if I did go against him. 

I can't pack or move the 2 big things (piano and large bookcase/wall unit) ... The books I could, but I feel like I'm helping him by boxing it up. That will be quite the job. I know when we moved here, it took like 10-15 big boxes. The professional movers used dollies to carry it, they were heavy. It's quite the collection. His other little stuff is packed in 2 boxes I have in the closet. The rest he has.

Why do you think he won't come get it, and especially going through the work to pack it and carry it down to the basement. I've tried explaining I'm not his storage unit. It just really rubs me the wrong way, that he hates me and can't stand being married to me... Yet, I'm good enough to be his safe house for his things.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

He hasn't gotten the stuff because right now it's not important to him. So just pretend it isn't there. 

And listen to your family. They were right about him.


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## Johnconrad (Dec 23, 2014)

Lost40 said:


> I'm not allowed to get rid of it. I have tried many times, my attorney says I have to either get his permission or wait until this ends or I could be going against the R.O. Ex is probably sleazy enough to cause issues if I did go against him.
> 
> I can't pack or move the 2 big things (piano and large bookcase/wall unit) ... The books I could, but I feel like I'm helping him by boxing it up. That will be quite the job. I know when we moved here, it took like 10-15 big boxes. The professional movers used dollies to carry it, they were heavy. It's quite the collection. His other little stuff is packed in 2 boxes I have in the closet. The rest he has.
> 
> Why do you think he won't come get it, and especially going through the work to pack it and carry it down to the basement. I've tried explaining I'm not his storage unit. It just really rubs me the wrong way, that he hates me and can't stand being married to me... Yet, I'm good enough to be his safe house for his things.


Do you have friends who can help you?

If so, rent a public storage unit for $1.00 for the first month. Take the stuff there and drop it off.

Mail the key to him and give him directions to where it is. If no one keeps up the rental, they'll get rid of it for you.

He knows this.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Johnconrad said:


> Do you have friends who can help you?
> 
> If so, rent a public storage unit for $1.00 for the first month. Take the stuff there and drop it off.
> 
> ...



That's a pretty good idea. Because then I'm not getting rid of it ... I can send him the key in a certified must sign for letter. I have friends who can help with the small stuff, not sure we're capable of moving a piano lol


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Lost40 said:


> I'm not allowed to get rid of it. I have tried many times, my attorney says I have to either get his permission or wait until this ends or I could be going against the R.O. Ex is probably sleazy enough to cause issues if I did go against him.
> 
> I can't pack or move the 2 big things (piano and large bookcase/wall unit) ... That will be quite the job. I know when we moved here, it took like 10-15 big boxes. The professional movers used dollies to carry it, they were heavy. It's quite the collection. His other little stuff is packed in 2 boxes I have in the closet. The rest he has.
> 
> Why do you think he won't come get it, and especially going through the work to pack it and carry it down to the basement. I've tried explaining I'm not his storage unit. It just really rubs me the wrong way, that he hates me and can't stand being married to me... Yet, I'm good enough to be his safe house for his things.


Dont look at it as helping HIM, look at it as helping YOU. If the books are in the bookcase, then I would bet that once the books are cleared, you and a friend could probably get it downstairs. (I have done MANY things as a single that I never thought I'd be able to do, lol) The piano, that you are just going to have to leave where it is. Maybe buy a pretty quilt or something and cover it. And he isnt picking the stuff up because he really doesnt care about the stuff, and is too selfish to care that it is bothering you. Jerk.


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## Johnconrad (Dec 23, 2014)

Lost40 said:


> That's a pretty good idea. Because then I'm not getting rid of it ... I can send him the key in a certified must sign for letter. I have friends who can help with the small stuff, not sure we're capable of moving a piano lol


Half a loaf is better than none.

Move the ball forward.

Gets you off dead center.

(Been there - done that)


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Thank you all, I appreciate your help and being here. 

I can't wait until my next therapy (Tuesday) - it's been over 2 weeks now, and next time he tells me he is going to be away like that - I'm going to say - then, let me see someone else in the office until you return. I feel like I've really really been set back in my road to recovery - I usually go EVERY Tuesday, once a week - in the beginning I went twice a week (for only 2 weeks did I do that). Either that, or I was lying to myself - and pretending I was better than I was. I don't know.


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## FrustratedFL (May 18, 2011)

Lost - I feel for your situation and lived some of the same. 

When you are cheated on, something inside of you changes. Lack of trust, insecurity, anger or self esteem but something does change in you.

The fact that he has become nasty and lost contact with you is very normal. Guilt causes the anger. That plus the idea that YOU are the one standing in the way of his happier ever after. 

Losing contact is actually a good thing although it hurts like hell. When your spouse is confronted with a choice and he chooses the OW or makes no decision at all but keeps status quo, it is a true sign of how messed up he is.

I lived through the same sadness. I tried marriage counseling while we separated but it is hard to go to a session and know he was back at tramps house later that night. I told everyone there was one to many persons in the marriage and I walked out of session never to return.

My exH is still never alone and onto another desperate woman who thinks he is the best and that she will change him. He will always be a cheat and gambler and deadbeat dad. 

Try to keep the no contact going and get busy with ANYTHING. I know it hurts like he11 but the truth is never what you imagine. Down the road, the newness wears off and he will begin arguing with OW and settling in to bills, boredom and betrayal. 

You can take this time for you and your son. Hang in there. I am 3 years out and just now starting to really live my life for me. Took me forever but we all get there eventually.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Thank you FL. I can't believe it takes 3 years... I've started reading that more and more recently it seems - I guess I need to start realizing that this is a longer road than I thought it would be.

I think that is pretty much what has caused this recent pain - is the loss of contact. Because up until about a week or so before Thanksgiving, we at least had a little contact - every once in awhile - definitely every week at least. It wasn't nice or friendly always, but we had some form of communication, and that kept me going. I think its because I felt like "Oh, if he has the drive to be nasty and mean, or to contact me - he must be regretting this decision - OR - he must be very unhappy" and that gave me a sense of false satisfaction. Either that, or I thought - he would eventually work his way home, b/c he was trying to keep in touch.

Now that this has all stopped - Its become clear that he is happy, and moved on. I just don't know how or why, I mean he is still living with family, no job, filed bankruptcy (now that he is no longer making the money he is used to making), and living without seeing his son much at all. How can that bring happiness and closure? Who would even want to date someone with those 3 dark clouds hanging over them? Maybe its like you said FL., a desperate woman. I can't picture him liking someone like that though, I know him too well. Or at least did.

I don't have a choice but to keep the no contact going, he is the one that stopped - I definitely don't send him texts or calls and haven't for sometime. Do they ever try to start up again with contacting you? He probably won't, he made it clear when he left - that he had too much pride to ever "come back" and I would regret this. I tried so so long to give him the time/space he needed. I allowed the infidelity to go on much longer than a lot of people probably would have. I gave him chances to end it, gave him chances to go to MC - I gave him many choices. Not just one. 

Do you think contact slows the healing process down? Maybe, I need to be glad it stopped.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Lost40 said:


> I don't have a choice but to keep the no contact going, he is the one that stopped - I definitely don't send him texts or calls and haven't for sometime. Do they ever try to start up again with contacting you? He probably won't, he made it clear when he left - that he had too much pride to ever "come back" and I would regret this. I tried so so long to give him the time/space he needed. I allowed the infidelity to go on much longer than a lot of people probably would have. I gave him chances to end it, gave him chances to go to MC - I gave him many choices. Not just one.
> *
> Do you think contact slows the healing process down? Maybe, I need to be glad it stopped.*


YES, contact does slow the healing process. Because like you mentioned, it keeps that teeny tiny light of hope glowing in the back of your mind, that there MUST be something there for them to be contacting you. The no contact is most definitely a blessing for you, stick with it! Also keep reminding yourself...you deserve BETTER than a man who will cheat on you.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Contact is definitely a set-back to the healing process because you are always hopeful that contact will lead to remorse on his part and he will magically wake up one day and want you back. That's rare. 

What I had to constantly tell myself was that it was over and done with. Some days I told myself that literally every minute of the day. It's not a quick process. Yes, it can take years sometimes. But it can be done.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

As to how he could be happy? Easy. He's free. No responsibilities. 

He's not what you need.


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## FrustratedFL (May 18, 2011)

contact DOES slow the healing process down. I, like you, thought my ex would wake up and realize the pain and devastation the infidelity caused and that he would be sorry and come back to work on the marriage. Never happened. 18 years down the tube.

Also similar is ex money situation. When he left - he left all the bills and all the content. We owned 2 homes, a contracting business, lots of credit card debt, very little savings and a big loan.
I was the main bread winner with his contracting business making money at times till the recession hit the real estate market. He now owes everyone in town, has no credit, barely pays his child support and has a sugar mama who pays for every meal. She is a big yelp blogger and desperately blogs every meal, the $80 wines, the expensive meals, etc. Sad to have women like that. Pathetic but true. 

He also left many items in my house and eventually moved into our rental house. I asked for a year or two for him to come get his crap but never did. I used to think he never wanted the items because he thought one day he would be back. Eventually I woke up and just realized he was selfish and lazy and did not want to make any effort. I sold lots of items at a garage sale for very little cost and gave some stuff to goodwill and boxed the rest and brought to storage bin and paid first month rent and sent him the key and told him he pays the rent or I will close it and they will take the crap.

It took me 3 years but most get over the betrayal and move on quicker. I was blind sided and emotionally so attached to my husband. I NEVER thought he would ever do this to his family but sadly I was mistaken.

I kept the house and changed the deed to my name only. I am just starting to change things around the house without feeling a sense of guilt. I chopped down bushes he planted that were overgrown and ugly, I am taking down my bird cage around the pool that I always wanted but he always said No. 

Things like this are now getting more standard in my life and it will be for you in time. 

I miss the guy I married and very happy I divorced the cheating, broke guy who hurt my daughter and I.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

FL, your story sounds very similar to mine. I was like you, I was hoping he would come apologize and realize the mistake. My therapist tells me no, that he won't do that b/c that would mean he was the villain. But, I somehow feel - he (therapist) doesn't really understand, he doesn't know my ex - like I do - and yes, he will come apologize. But - I'm trying desperately to give that idea up.

Did you ex, yet - ever try to apologize or make an effort to show he messed up, now 3 years later? How do you all communicate regarding your daughter? Does he make an effort to see her? Do you think your daughter has distanced herself from her Dad? How were you able to tell that was happening when it happened? I think its starting to happen with my son, but I can't tell. 

I was the same way you were - I was extremely attached to him, I used to think he was to me too - the way we both were. We were always together, if he ever had to travel out of town for work - which was rare, but he did maybe 5-6 times total in our marriage - it was pure hell. I remember crying all the way to the airport each time, dropping him off - and when picking him up, I'd literally shake with excitement. We were madly in love. So I thought.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

The other thing about my ex is - he is a very religious man (he was actually going to be a Priest at one time). A catholic - the church who frowns on divorce for the most part. I remember before we got married, it was extremely important to him, to follow all the catholic teachings, and go through pre-canna and retreats, and all this - b/c marriage was forever, and it was to be taken very very seriously. I agreed. 

That was one of the other signs, during the affair. He stopped going to church, he hadn't been almost that entire time since she started working for us. That was another red flag, b/c of how important church was to him. He was ashamed.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Openminded said:


> As to how he could be happy? Easy. He's free. No responsibilities.
> 
> He's not what you need.



Wow.. that is pathetic, isn't it? It's true too. He won't go get a job,b/c he knows as soon as he does - support starts. He doesn't want to pay it.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Lost40 said:


> Wow.. that is pathetic, isn't it? It's true too. He won't go get a job,b/c he knows as soon as he does - support starts. He doesn't want to pay it.


See? Focus on things like THIS. He is NOT a good man, and isnt worthy of your time, energy or emotion. He is a selfish, lazy cheater. Stop romanticizing what used to be, or what you thought it was, or hoped it would be...focus on the harsh reality that is him. Like I said previously, YOU DESERVE BETTER!


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

No contact is best, because your trying to break an addiction. When you see him, past memories will flood back, and you will focus on the good times, instead of focusing on the current reality. You need the detachment to see the picture clearly. Seeing him is like a setback for an addict.

You need to work on yourself. You want to be fine and happy as you before entering any relationship. If you take him back now, not much has changed. You are nearly the same person with the same issues, and so is he. That is why you need to change certain aspect of yourself, so next time you will have stronger boundaries and have the will to enforce them.


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## FrustratedFL (May 18, 2011)

Lost - my EX never truly apologized. When first separated he sent me an email that basically said he " painted himself into a corner and could not get out" but that was it. I waited for a long time to get a true apology and now I know I will NEVER get any. 

It took me a very long time to let go of my marriage. I too am Catholic and (in my mind) was trying to be supportive of my husband while he lost his mind. I finally woke up, realized that the lazy, cheating liar was not my husband and no remorse would ever be expressed. This took a while so be prepared for a revelation one day.

I have sole custody of my daughter due to his affair partner having having 4 duis and being a felon. I told him he could see daughter anytime as long as he is alone. He chooses not to see her very often. I used to arrange pick ups or tell him I was busy so he had to spend some time with her. I stopped doing this since daughter and dad never attempt to talk, meet or hang out by themselves. He lives 20 blocks away in the rental home but she has not been over his house since Aug 2013. His choice not mine. He could go to movies, shopping, dinner, fishing, beach or anything else with daughter as long as it is alone. He would rather enjoy time with new sugar mama than make any effort with daughter who is almost 15. I brought her to counseling when first separated to make sure she was handling all ok. She was fine and therapist said she was strong and loved her dad and I should always encourage her to talk to her dad. I have done that.

I was shocked when my marriage has ended but I thank God I was always independent. 

I agree with 3X and Fisty. You need to make a list of everything he ever did that was bad, disrepectful, hurtful to you and your son. Email it to yourself so you have it on your phone. Refer to it OFTEN when you start traveling down memory lane. Hiding behind a religion while having an affair on your wife and son is bu11sh*t. He is a master manipulator and a broken, sad, lazy, man. 

You can do better and will once the emotions are settled and you can start doing things for yourself. It will happen but will take time. Keep up with no contact.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Thanks you all. I appreciate you continuing to come back and replying to my desperate pleas of trying to get back to "normal". 

It's hard to not have any contact with him, because we share a son - and unfortunately he has too much visitation rights. So, if anything needs changed (and he is the only one who changes things around - never me) I have to communicate with him. I don't know how I should be in responding to his requests. I've taken on the role of, No contact. I only reply. Sometimes, I don't reply right away - I wait anywhere from overnight, to a couple hours, to 10-15 minutes depending on what the question is - or what I feel like at the moment. I don't want him thinking I am sitting there anxious and excited to respond to him. When I do respond, I am friendly and accommodating to his requests (b/c typically they involve switching days - and I have no life, and love being around my son - so its no problem for me at all to take on extra or switch days). Maybe this is the wrong way for me to be? I can tell you, as soon as I'm burned with this ... for example, if I ever need to switch or whatever - and he doesn't help me. I'm done.

I don't talk about anything other than son. He texted me on NYE (to ask something about son) - but he ended the conversation, after we were done talking - he sent a "What are you and son doing tonight?" - I don't know why he did that. I almost didn't answer him, I waited a long while, before saying "Hanging out here". He said "Same here".

I don't know what any of this means - his texts because they are suddenly "Friendly", that usually revolve around son - but it seems they are texts that could be brought up another way or all at once (its like he spreads them out), but its confusing to me... not to mention the, I will pack my stuff up and put it in the basement, but not take it. And, I'm afraid its because I feel like I want him back, but I know better. I know I deserve better... but, feel like I'll never get it. I'm sure he won't come back anyway, it's been 5 months and divorce is filed and should be final by March/April. It's too late.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

They're like that because, mark my words, he will eventually cry that he wants his family back. You already know he didn't want a divorce, he wanted the family and his wh0re, and he was really angry when you rained on that parade. That's why he wanted you to suffer..... you f!cked up his plans so he was going to ruin your life (putting the business in his name) and make sure you're miserable while you think he's happy. But what he wanted was for you to fold, beg him back, and he could come back on his terms. Please don't take this pr!ck back, but if you ever do set up a postnup and tell him he signs it or he can f!ck off.

Don't respond to anything not kid related. Things with his h0 probably aren't working out well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Thanks lifestooshort. I've heard that from a lot of people - mostly my Dad says it, "mark my words, he'll try to come back". Is it because, that is how situations like this go? Because when you look at the divorce rate, and how many people divorce and stay divorced - the odds are he won't come back. 

I hear that from my therapist too, the part where you said "Of course he's mad.. you messed up his plans - he wanted both, and you didn't let him". As far as not giving him what he wanted, by begging - I think I did do that in the beginning, not proud of that - but, there were times I asked him to please see the OW for who she really was, and to come home and leave her go. But he wouldn't. Maybe that's why, b/c it wasn't a begging on his terms. It was still, do whats right - and you come home where you belong type of thing. It was more begging him to do the right thing. 

This man has gone from... "Zero contact, Nasty, Lets be Friends/Lets have sex (yes he tried this several times), Leave me alone, Lets be Friends, You've crossed the line now (usually regarding something going on with our attorneys - keep in mind, he filed - not me), back to being nasty, the email telling me how happy he is, and how I am nothing to him in any way, to now starting to get a few texts here and there regarding our son" However he is keeping it regarding our son, with the exception of asking us, what son and I are doing on NYE.

It's a whirlwind, and I can't figure out where we stand one minute to the next. Seems the most common thing now though is zero contact. That is why I don't see him trying to come back, as he is slowly starting to disappear.

I think it would be kind of fascinating to see him attempt at coming back. It would give me a small satisfaction, because then I would know - that he regretted what he did.

I don't think I'll ever be able to trust him again, so I doubt I ever see a marriage with him again. It's one reason why I'm not pushing him to STOP the divorce part, I told him early on - I'm okay with the divorce if that is what you need, I'm not trying to stop you from that part. It's because I realized, with a man like that - you need a prenup/postnup. So, if we ever did re-connect - he's lost all priviledges as far as that goes. He has to sign.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Whether he wants to come back or not is only conjecture. He may be too prideful and egotistical to even come back. What is the current reality that you have to deal with? He is gone, and that is a known fact. Your options are to place your life on hold, in hopes he comes to his senses,, or move on without him and begin the healing process. One is based on an unknown outcome, while one is based in the current reality and is more adaptable to change. While you heal, and work on self-improvement, if he comes crawling back, then at that moment, you can view everything in a more neutral light. You will be mentally stronger, and you will be able to enforce your boundaries.

I would probably go through a divorce no matter what. Postnuppt are not as binding as prenupt. Also, who says you need to be married to him again, and I highly doubt that the family would be as forgiving. He burned down a lot of bridges on his way out.

He doesn't know it yet, but he is in an infatuation stage that last from a couple of months to a couple of years. During this stage, most of his logic goes on hiatus. Chances of him making this work is slim at best. How often do we hit a home run on the first try? Once the magical feelings go away, the reality will hit like a truck. I wouldn't feel sorry for him, since he is the one who had the poor boundary to allow this to happen. At this moment, he doesn't know if their personality, life goals, personal philosophy, maturity level will even match up correctly. The infatuation stage is an obsessive one for a reason. It stops us from noticing our mate's flaw long enough to mate. He is currently seeing life through a hormonal high, and once the high is gone, things will be different.


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## Jane139 (Jan 6, 2015)

I would say to be careful when/if his new "love and romance" period begins to sour...he may try to come back. It will likely be hard to resist for you, if this happens, as you sound pretty vulnerable. Try to remember that he betrayed you, more than just physically, but in your workplace where you were meant to be partners in another way too. If he did it once, he will do it again. 

I feel certain that when your child is older, he will understand why really happened and not blame you. Or even "her". No one can force an adult to indulge in cheating behavior.


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

My ex walked away from our 13 year marriage without hesitation or any effort to recon. I struggled for a couple years, just like you. This year she realized what a mistake she made.....but I am over it and over her. You just need time to get to that point. Same advice as is given here all the time: focus on you, focus on you, focus on you. Dont worry about how he should feel, who he is with, what he is wearing/going/ reading, dont try to figure out why he goes grocery shopping at 6pm. It will get easier...with time.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Mr.Fisty said:


> You fell into the trap of loving him unconditionally, and the more attached you are, the more you suffered. Your self-esteem is so low, that you allowed him to treat you that way, and your willing to take him back. You made your identity so wrapped around him, that you cannot see him as his own separate entity. Look at what you were willing to accept as a husband. You cannot look at the past and judge him, but you have to see him as he is now. You cannot accept the reality of who he is, and you rather accept what once was. When you think of him, your trapped in the past.
> 
> You have to stop contacting him, and focus on yourself. Start making new friends, be with supportive family members, find new hobbies, and learn to be your own person again. You have to figure out what you want out of life as an individual. You have to accept the fact that he was never really a part of you. You are you, and you lost sight of that somewhere. If you find new things to do, find some kind of charity, or do things like working out, it will help boost your self-esteem. You also have to reaffirm that you do have good qualities that someone will cherish. Look at what you wrote, and, and accept that this is theperson he is now. Start living on the facts, and not on what you hope the facts will be.




OP read Mr. Fisty post over and over as his words are so true. I did the same for almost a 30 yrs marriage, and when hubs had an affair, my whole life crumbled much like yours is right now. I didnt know how to exist, ((and I was pretty worldly,)) but the idea of "how could he do this to us after 28 yrs???" just blew me away. I was stuck.

The person he was, was the only person I could ever relate to. The one who became my whole life, my whole identity, my whole, "the 3 of us," because we too had 1 son. I never ever imagined my life without him. I was a sahm so you can see everything was about us. 

But here I sit now, almost 4 yrs out, and only now am I making sense of all what I went through, my god, you are only 5 months out !!!
At 5 months I was probably trying to figure out how to end my own life, as nothing nothing made sense. 

All of this is a process. The emotions that it all puts one under are unlike any that one ever realizes they are capable of feeling. The questions that one goes thur, and the self discovery is too unlike anything one ever experience as well. It all can be crippling. 

My hub begged to return to the marriage, and believe me, that opens it's own problems that is just unimaginable within it's self. 

Be glad he is gone. The whys you get today wont be the whys you get tomorrow, so there is no sense trying to figure it out, not until the heart is in a better, softer place towards yourself, which trust me too, will be one day.

Start to read positive things about moving on. Get into a group with other women who are separating. ((meet-up groups offer this)) 

Hang in the OP, it's a rough road, your not on it alone...

~sammy


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Thanks everyone, you're right - I guess I am rushing myself, but I think partially because I am feeling rushed by my parents. They are very supportive and have been here emotionally and financially since July - I mean 100%! They have been awesome. However, my mom made a comment not too long ago, and it hit me hard. She said "Oh, I'm sorry - I forgot you are still not over him" or something like that... and it was like, Shoot.. you're right. I'm not. I didn't say anything, she didn't mean anything negative by it, it was just a comment. But I think since she said that, I'm kind of guessing - they think I should be. They don't get it, no one in my family really does. I am the first in my family (except my aunt - who is now passed away) who has ever gone through a divorce and her divorce was more of a mutual separation and they remained good friends from day 1. So, this is new to me and my family really if I think about it.

Of course ex - burned so many bridges on his way out like stated above by Mr Fisty (and its a darn good point!) they all find him to be terrible for me now. So - they can't understand why I feel the way I feel for someone who treated me that way. I don't understand it either. You would think that would make it easier. Did you all feel that way too? Asking yourself why you care about someone who made you feel that way?

I am trying to focus on me... I have made some decisions. I joined the gym today. I am going to try to go there at least every other day - if not every day. I got my young dog signed up for obedience, and I'm going to start taking her there. That will give me something to do this winter until I can start riding horses again. Not to mention, she needs it - she is big (German Shepherd) and she is 7 months old and needs trained.  Maybe I'll make new friends there. I don't know how to make friends - I wish I did.

I think ex has too much pride to come back, he has always told me that - for example, the day he left. He said, "you'll regret this - because I'll never come back. I have too much pride" - So, I asked him - I said Oh okay, but you don't have too much pride to run around on your wife - and leave your son behind. OK that makes sense. 

Those who are saying 2-4 years... does it take the entire 2-4 years to feel different than I am feeling today? That is scary, I don't know if I can handle this for that long. Or, does it gradually get better as you go.. What happens in 2-4 years, you just completely forget about them - and it's like they are nothing to you, but another person? 

I think part of my fear is feeling like, I'll never feel true love again. He was my first true love. I dated casually here and there, but he was my first "true" love - and he is all I know. We were comfortable, we knew each other. He knew my issues, I knew his. Do you who have been through this understand what I'm saying - did you feel the same way? Were you ever able to move past that - with another person, and feel connected to them - the way you did your ex?


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## Garry2012 (Oct 5, 2012)

Yeah...it gets better. I think you have to learn to appreciate the freedom you have, and enjoy the opportunities that you have been given to forge a new beginning. I think that takes time...It took me several months to realize that I could decorate my house, move furnature etc as I wanted. I think you def can move on to just as fulfilling relationship with a new person...with time. I am only a couple years out, and I am MUCH better than I was just a year ago and you will be better too.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Lost40 said:


> Thanks everyone, you're right - I guess I am rushing myself, but I think partially because I am feeling rushed by my parents. They are very supportive and have been here emotionally and financially since July - I mean 100%! They have been awesome. However, my mom made a comment not too long ago, and it hit me hard. She said "Oh, I'm sorry - I forgot you are still not over him" or something like that... and it was like, Shoot.. you're right. I'm not. I didn't say anything, she didn't mean anything negative by it, it was just a comment. But I think since she said that, I'm kind of guessing - they think I should be. They don't get it, no one in my family really does. I am the first in my family (except my aunt - who is now passed away) who has ever gone through a divorce and her divorce was more of a mutual separation and they remained good friends from day 1. So, this is new to me and my family really if I think about it.
> 
> Of course ex - burned so many bridges on his way out like stated above by Mr Fisty (and its a darn good point!) they all find him to be terrible for me now. So - they can't understand why I feel the way I feel for someone who treated me that way. I don't understand it either. You would think that would make it easier. Did you all feel that way too? Asking yourself why you care about someone who made you feel that way?
> 
> ...



The process is how long it takes to heal. Some do it quickly, some do not. The more you focus on yourself, gain self-confidence, know that you have worth, can be content with who you are as your own individual. Those with a stronger sense of self seem to heal quicker. Those who wrapped their identity around their spouse tend to have a harder time. They are figuring out who they are as themselves. Everything they tend to do, is with their partner. They lose their individual selves. Their self persona becomes absorb into the marriage persona.

I have hobbies, friends, and I take care of myself. All those things bring contentment, and is part of my individualism. I do not need a partner to define me, or bring me happiness. Also it keeps a level of detachment where I do not lose myself.

Love tends to give a hazy view of the people we love. When you think about that person, you are filled with rapture at times. Your just high on love, and that perception tends to take the clarity out of reality.

But, the first step is to actually grieve on what was lost. The image of who you thought your husband was, your future plans, that part of yourself that viewed yourself as his, and the family image that you have had. The man you loved is not here and all the traits that you gave him that you loved. That man is gone, and even though he was mostly an image of who you thought he was, nontheless, you loved that image. It was real to you. When your done grieving, is when you really can focus on moving on. Once you can accept what has happened, it becomes easier. Also, bonds naturally fade over time the less you focus on them. The less you see him, the less you talk, the faster the process goes. Love is an addiction, and you will want to see him, talk to him, convince him he is making a big mistake, and you will want the reassurance of his presence because it is what your accustomed to.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

I just read your thread Lost. First, I would like to say how sorry I am that you and your son are going through this. Second, I would like to say that you should be on your hands and knees thanking the Good Lord above that you are rid of this man. Why are you wasting one ounce of energy on this parasite? He isn't worth it. He was never the man you thought he was. How he is acting and behaving now is how he really is. I've seen it said many times on this board, "when someone shows you who they are, believe them." Your ex is a jerk. 

Work on yourself and take care of your son. Please don't waste another minute focusing on your ex - he isn't worth it!!


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Lost40,

I believe you have only begun to see the depth of abuse and trauma this man has caused you and do you want to know how I can tell? Your self doubt is STRONG. There are so many times in this thread I was CRINGING for you because I could FEEL your self doubt. It has been an issue for me too because I was exposed to long term emotional abuse, the kind that is very hard to detect, especially when you are born into it. It really made me wonder about your childhood and what you were exposed to because your self doubt is almost as strong as mine and I'm 45, woke up to the abuse around me at 35 and have been "recovering" or growing out of it for the past ten years. It really had me wondering about your past. But, I wanted to share several things I noticed in your thread and to share encouragements here and there. 

1. Therapy, books, friends and family - using those to help you recover is not "cheating".. It's SMART!! Also, talking and seeking counsel is the path to emotional closure since your reality was totally ruptured and now you are rebuilding your new reality. It's going to take outside help for that. Glad you found us and your therapist sounds really good! Let your family know about this recovery time and how long it may take so that they will know.

2. Not giving into the con job :smthumbup: Brilliant!

3. Your comeback to him about him being prideful was also brilliant! :smthumbup:

4. Forgive yourself for the ebb and flow of recovery, especially around "special times" like holidays. TOTALLY normal. You are VERY much like me in that you get frustrated with yourself for not always progressing. I get very hard on myself when I back up. So I'm encouraging you and me at the same time to be kind to yourself during those times. 

5. There is a condition called Stockholm Syndrome that you may need to be aware of as well as Codependency. These may be why you are "stuck." Some of the clues to that potential is losing your identity to someone else, struggling breaking free, obsessive thoughts about others (not a criticism).. just out of balance with thoughts about your own needs, that kind of thing. I encourage you to read about them and ask your therapist about them.

6. I am so freakin sorry your son is being treated with such neglect. Just makes me mad!

7. And lastly... its a roller coaster because he is a controlling manipulator who probably uses emotional blackmail to affect you. I recommend the book Emotional Blackmail and Navigating Narcissistic Predicaments. There is a very real way of taking yourself OFF of his train of manipulation that will allow your days to be calmer. But I will also encourage you to study Stockholm Syndrome and Codependency in this light... can't stress that enough. I believe you will find some very needed clues to a path forward out of stuck that you long for.



I love that you love German Shepherds and horses. I too have horses and have studied natural horsemanship for a long time as well as am on fourth dog that is either full blooded GS or GSmix. My current female is German Shepherd/Boxer mix and boy is she SMART. I too am in my 40's. 45 to be exact with one son who is 6. I have survived abuse and infidelity (both sides of it) and am seriously rooting you on :smthumbup: Just sorry you are here.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Op. 

Yes to every question you asked, "Did you all feel these same things?"...for the most part. 

The reason for the time spam, 3-5 years, is because infidelity changes one in such profound way it's unreal. You will never be the person you were before.

You will heal when you heal. You will hurt for how long you hurt. 
You will change, and will not be where you are now, even next week you will change, and next month. 

I was the person Mr Fisty described to a T. I could not function without my partner, as we had been a couple for so long in what I thought was a happy marriage. Never would I have imagine I would be where I am today. I still have no idea what the next step is, and still very fearful of the future alone, but I am not that hurting person any longer. Life is getting better. 

Looking back, I am shameful for how much I hurt, and how much I hurt others thur my pain. It would have been easier had my hub died, as there is support, there is a body, and there is closure. People understand the grief...with infidelity they do not, no one does until it happens to oneself. We find out pretty quickly who does understand somewhat and who doesnt... 

I too was the only one in my family of 4 sides that ever separated or D. My own parents together 62 years. I am the only one. There has been affairs on hubs father's side, but all looked the other way, and I was advised to do the same. 

Every month, every week every day you will be changing and evolving from this mess into new women. That too is another reason for the time spam, it's not the suffering for all that time, it's coming to understand and terms of what your life means now. Even if he came back into the marriage, it would be a complete different way of life. 

So many of these words dont really mean much at this time to you that we post and suggest you do, and it's because you really are just starting into the world of infidelity. 5 months is still very raw... some can just turn the corner, but you sound as you can't , and because of that, dont be so hard on yourself, know yourself instead and start learning about you now. 

Go back to something you really liked doing but stopped, as you will find common minded people. 

It a tough road op, not fun at all... we get thur it, but come out of it a different person, and it's up to us what kind of person that will be. 



~sammy


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Mr Fisty,
Thank you. Am I still in the right amount of time for grieving, or does it seem to be taking a little long for that part? I hear what you say in - some do it quicker than others. My therapist said the same thing "It takes how long it takes, there is no time limit on it". 

I need to gain self-esteem. Is it possible to do that, and truly have it. I don't want to just tell myself I have it to feel better, I want to truly have it. 

I know you have to be happy with yourself, as an individual - but when you are a people person - and thrive off other people (I am extremely extroverted) - I'm not sure how that is possible - but it must be possible - b/c I hear a lot of people tell me this.


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## FrustratedFL (May 18, 2011)

Sammy - your description the aftermath of infidelity is right on target! It changes you. 

I am more guarded, trust is not easily given, I am more reserved in my opinions and I feel like I need to stop myself from talking to my friends about feelings. 

After the big reveal when the mistress called and spilled the beans to me since my EX was trying to dump her, I relied on my friends who were all supportive. I was shocked and hurt and angry and self doubting and just plain sad. 

Separated for 2+ years and final divorce in May 2014, people began to get annoyed that I was not "over" it. Mind you, I was employed, parenting my teenager, took over all the bills and was completely abandoned by my spouse without any help, guilt, remorse or feelings. I did AWESOME to survive that horrible time without becoming shrew like and bitter.

Unless people have been exposed to infidelity and all the hurt that goes with this, they cannot possibly understand the fear, anger, sadness and relief. 

Lost = don't let the calendar determine your emotional well being. Although hard to hear, the process takes a long time. Each of us have had fear that love will never come again but each passing day, I get better with more distance from my former life and doing things for me!!

Be grateful for your freedom from a man who is a liar and a cheat. Unless the person changes and makes many many amends, a reconciliation will never happen and should not. 

Keep doing the no contact and doing activities like gym and dog classes. That is great and is the right direction.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Reading your thread and just like the last comment about being extrovert makes me feel like I am talking to myself and watching myself write. I swear we are split from the same cell. I also had stopped riding.

Yes, your grieving time frame is totally normal. No worries there.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Blossom,
Thank you for your post. I tried to read your link at the bottom of your signature there - and it said it wasn't available. 

You're right - I do have a terrible self-doubt. I pretty much fold whenever someone asks me to for the most part. I've always been that way, even as a kid. I used to get in trouble in school because, someone would talk me into doing something or "else" - and I would do it. I never got in trouble, b/c the teachers knew what was happening, but it always ended up causing issues anyway. 

I think reading a lot of this, is helping me realize some things.. and maybe these are things I should start focusing on with my therapist to try to become a stronger person. The problem is, I don't want to be a hateful or "distant" person. I like who I am, I am a generous and nice person, I think. I want to keep being that way, but with a backbone. 

I will look and read into the Stockholm syndrome, I will look that up. I will also look up the two books you suggested, I like to read - and I will order that from amazon tonight.

My son is so strong, he is unbelievable - if I could just have half his weight in strength I'd be okay. He is amazing. It's hard putting on a happy face, around him - but, at the same time - he makes it easy - because he is always happy. He deserves the best, and I've told him that we will make this year one of the best ever. I hope I can hold up to my promise - I plan on it.

What breed of horses do you have? I have a Tennessee Walker and an Appaloosa (who doesn't look like an App - he is solid. lol). I bought my German Shepherd from a breeder, I typically don't do this - I usually adopt shelter dogs (my other 2 are shelter dogs) - but, I wanted a guardian when ex left since it's just son and I up here on the farm. Problem is, she is too friendly - and really just wants to jump and love on people. Not sure what kind of guard dog she will end up being, but she looks the part at least. lol


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Lost40 said:


> Mr Fisty,
> Thank you. Am I still in the right amount of time for grieving, or does it seem to be taking a little long for that part? I hear what you say in - some do it quicker than others. My therapist said the same thing "It takes how long it takes, there is no time limit on it".
> 
> I need to gain self-esteem. Is it possible to do that, and truly have it. I don't want to just tell myself I have it to feel better, I want to truly have it.
> ...




You can use your people skills to your advantage. Help in charity, make a difference in someone's life. During Hurricane Katrina, me and a group of my high school friends came together and created a concert with donations going to victims. WE raised around 20,000 and I help set up, and give the word out. I also helped with cleaning and I felt good that I did something.

For a twenty something, I threw a tea party where we all dressed up and acted cultured. Everyone had fun, and it was great to see people smile and enjoy themselves. Some of us watch British shows trying to develop a British accent. People who did not think they would enjoy it had a great time, considering we were taching football.

Also, you have to work on your boundaries. You can be both generous , and firm at the same time. You need to shore up your boundaries. You try to please people so they would love you, at least I saw it in your marriage. You do have good qualities, and your not working towards perfection, but just a better you. You can be a great role model for your son, and he in turn will emulate you. You have to learn to place yourself as a priority from time to time. If you place everyone before you, who will look after you in return? If your healthy, you can then move your focus elsewhere . 

Work out and stay in shape. A healthy body image will boost confidence. Sometimes we do not value our self. You do have good qualities right, and you can reaffirm yourself that there is something about yourself that you should cherish. Everyone has disfunctions, and we all could use work to improve our self. What are your weaknesses? Learn to minimize them or eliminate them in general.

Finally, go out there and explore. We will be constantly re-inventing ourselves. We should never remain stagnant, and believe that we are done changing. Even now, your not the same person you were yesterday. I always say, everyday, we become a different person to varying degrees. You can start journaling and once in a while, go back and read how much your thoughts have change. Create that list of goals, and once you accomplish something, you will feel that sense of accomplishments. Create a lot of goals that you probably cannot finish them all, because there is so much to life.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Its temporarily down. I need to get it back up because I have people asking me daily for it.

I TOO have two horses and one of them is a Tennessee Walker!! Omg Girl .. how much are we going to have in common?? 

I can definitely help you gain the backbone you desire without losing the sweet loving side of yourself. I used to NEVER stand up for myself or it was really rare. I have almost taken it too far BUT I had to fight hard the past couple of years, but now that things are settling its rebalancing 

Are you a Southern Girl?

I too originally got Shepherds for their protection.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Thank you Everyone! You have been a Godsend, and so supportive and helpful. THANK YOU to everyone for being here. I am glad I found this place. (Hugs). I don't even really know how I found you all, I just stumbled upon it, doing some google search for "why is it taking so long" or something - and a forum topic post came up, and Wow. It was like I hit the jackpot.

Sammy, that is interesting that you and FrustratedFL, both agree I will become a changed person. I can only hope - a better person, I want to be who I am now - but stronger, happier and more wise. I think the wise part will come naturally due to the fact that I'm just going to be more on the lookout next time. 

I know what you mean about almost being ashamed, of how bad you hurt. I almost feel shame in myself, for showing my family and friends that I hurt and cry over someone so bad. It's like, where is my values and morals? I certainly have them, but it sure doesn't LOOK like it. 

I have heard that death is an easier grief to get over, because their is finality, closure. I still don't know if I completely understand that, b/c one day a long long time from now, I will lose someone I love dearly to death (I hate saying that, but its a part of life - lets face it) and then I'll of course be grieving, then I will think back... and say - Wow. I grieved WORSE than this over, a man who cheated on me?! It almost doesn't make sense, but I have heard that and I believe it.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Why does the person who leaves (in my instance, my hsbd) not seem to take it as hard? I mean, the things they do/did in the relationship had to mean something to them, to do it in the first place - yes? So, why is the pain not there for them, like it is for the one who was left? 

When I hear some people say, I've heard it here and I've heard it from my friends/family - that eventually he will hit rock bottom, see that the grass isn't greener, etc. etc. -- Is that when they do their suffering, like I am doing now? Does it just take them longer to go through it? Or, would you say, since it's been 5 months - he's already realized that, and/or been through the grief stage?


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Lost40 said:


> Why does the person who leaves (in my instance, my hsbd) not seem to take it as hard? I mean, the things they do/did in the relationship had to mean something to them, to do it in the first place - yes? So, why is the pain not there for them, like it is for the one who was left?
> 
> When I hear some people say, I've heard it here and I've heard it from my friends/family - that eventually he will hit rock bottom, see that the grass isn't greener, etc. etc. -- Is that when they do their suffering, like I am doing now? Does it just take them longer to go through it? Or, would you say, since it's been 5 months - he's already realized that, and/or been through the grief stage?


He is in the affair fog, blind to the destruction he is causing.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Frustrated, Wow.. I can't believe the mistress called you. That is how you found out? Was she apologetic, did she seem to know you were in the picture, or was it - one of those "I didn't know he was married" lines?

See, my stbx told this girl - that I was jealous of her (towards the end). So, she probably felt real good about that. Knowing that she made me jealous. The amazing part to me is, my ex in the very very beginning - before I realized what was going on, and a little bit into the time I thought they really were just friends - talked me into being a friend of hers too. So, I was always very nice to her. She knew we had a young son at home, and she always talked highly of him around me anyway - telling me how sweet of a kid he was. Yet, she chose to hurt him anyway?


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Blossom Leigh said:


> Its temporarily down. I need to get it back up because I have people asking me daily for it.
> 
> I TOO have two horses and one of them is a Tennessee Walker!! Omg Girl .. how much are we going to have in common??
> 
> ...


We do have a lot in common  Great, I look forward to growing that backbone, I know I've needed that. I just need to realize that standing up for yourself doesn't mean you are a unnice person. I think that is what I think, that if you don't cave and give - you aren't nice. Or something - I don't know. Really doesn't make a lot of sense. But, I think I know what I'm saying. 

I am in the midwest, but in the southern part of my state - lol


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Lost40 said:


> We do have a lot in common  Great, I look forward to growing that backbone, I know I've needed that. I just need to realize that standing up for yourself doesn't mean you are a unnice person. I think that is what I think, that if you don't cave and give - you aren't nice. Or something - I don't know. Really doesn't make a lot of sense. But, I think I know what I'm saying.
> 
> I am in the midwest, but in the southern part of my state - lol


Lol... I'm pm'ing you...


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Lost40 said:


> Why does the person who leaves (in my instance, my hsbd) not seem to take it as hard? I mean, the things they do/did in the relationship had to mean something to them, to do it in the first place - yes? So, why is the pain not there for them, like it is for the one who was left?
> 
> When I hear some people say, I've heard it here and I've heard it from my friends/family - that eventually he will hit rock bottom, see that the grass isn't greener, etc. etc. -- Is that when they do their suffering, like I am doing now? Does it just take them longer to go through it? Or, would you say, since it's been 5 months - he's already realized that, and/or been through the grief stage?




I have strepped throat, so after this I am going to sleep. The grieving you are going through is the construct of your husband from what you have gathered over the years. Remember, as much as we like to believe we know everyone completely, we really don't. So your mourning the construct of your husband, because that image of who he is, was real to you, and someone you loved. Your letting go of the person who you believe him to be.

As for him leaving without remorse, we would only have conjecture. Most likely his logic is on hiatus, and his constant obsession is clouding his judgement. For him, it will feel like being soul mates, and you have become an obstacle in that view. He is going through the honeymoon phase, and does not even know it. Also, he may have character flaws you were not aware of . Love can blind us to our partner too. That is why being able to detach once in a while is crucial. A neutral view, will be different from a view from a love standpoint. Emotions, and feelings will alter our perception so things are not as clear as they could be. Like now, your still in the early stages, and you cannot figure how to get beyond this. In the beginning, you were wondering how you will function. But functioning you are nonetheless. With that a bid you all a good night.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Thanks Fisty, that makes sense. I hope you feel better soon!


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Well here is what happened tonight - about 10 minutes ago, and I don't really know why this happened and I'm not happy about it because, as you all can see - I am still grieving and attached to him in some odd confusing way. 

Son had his night with Ex tonight - and he got dropped off. Well, normally he just drops him off - son walks in, and he drives off. No getting out of the car, etc. Tonight... he got out of the car, and carried my sons book bag. Normally son carries all of this himself. I stood back when I saw him coming, and kind of tried to stay clear of looking at him. Son walked in, and ex - kind of peeked his head in the door (didn't walk in) and set his bookbag on the floor by the door. Then he smiled and waved. I just kind of blankly stared at him. It happened so fast, he kind of stood for a SPLIT SECOND and waited to see if I'd respond, I didn't - I just looked at him, and he turned and walked away, kind of turning back one last time as he walked away.

I'm trying to decide now, what that means and did I respond the correct way? Should I have smiled and waved back, acting happy and excited - (I'm trying to make him think I am this happy person, now that he's out of my life - its fake, but that is how I act over text) or did I do the right thing, by just being neutral and giving him a look like "why, are you waving at me?"


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Lost40 said:


> Well here is what happened tonight - about 10 minutes ago, and I don't really know why this happened and I'm not happy about it because, as you all can see - I am still grieving and attached to him in some odd confusing way.
> 
> Son had his night with Ex tonight - and he got dropped off. Well, normally he just drops him off - son walks in, and he drives off. No getting out of the car, etc. Tonight... he got out of the car, and carried my sons book bag. Normally son carries all of this himself. I stood back when I saw him coming, and kind of tried to stay clear of looking at him. Son walked in, and ex - kind of peeked his head in the door (didn't walk in) and set his bookbag on the floor by the door. Then he smiled and waved. I just kind of blankly stared at him. It happened so fast, he kind of stood for a SPLIT SECOND and waited to see if I'd respond, I didn't - I just looked at him, and he turned and walked away, kind of turning back one last time as he walked away.
> 
> I'm trying to decide now, what that means and did I respond the correct way? Should I have smiled and waved back, acting happy and excited - (I'm trying to make him think I am this happy person, now that he's out of my life - its fake, but that is how I act over text) or did I do the right thing, by just being neutral and giving him a look like "why, are you waving at me?"


Neutral is just fine.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Lost40 said:


> Well here is what happened tonight - about 10 minutes ago, and I don't really know why this happened and I'm not happy about it because, as you all can see - I am still grieving and attached to him in some odd confusing way.
> 
> Son had his night with Ex tonight - and he got dropped off. Well, normally he just drops him off - son walks in, and he drives off. No getting out of the car, etc. Tonight... he got out of the car, and carried my sons book bag. Normally son carries all of this himself. I stood back when I saw him coming, and kind of tried to stay clear of looking at him. Son walked in, and ex - kind of peeked his head in the door (didn't walk in) and set his bookbag on the floor by the door. Then he smiled and waved. I just kind of blankly stared at him. It happened so fast, he kind of stood for a SPLIT SECOND and waited to see if I'd respond, I didn't - I just looked at him, and he turned and walked away, kind of turning back one last time as he walked away.
> 
> I'm trying to decide now, what that means and did I respond the correct way? Should I have smiled and waved back, acting happy and excited - (I'm trying to make him think I am this happy person, now that he's out of my life - its fake, but that is how I act over text) or did I do the right thing, by just being neutral and giving him a look like "why, are you waving at me?"


What an ass. You did the right thing. 

Im so jealous of you and Blossom having horses! I used to have one, for about 10 years. Finances have not allowed for me to have one since, I miss it like crazy!


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## Jane139 (Jan 6, 2015)

Keep your expressions neutral for now, if you can. Don't let him dictate your responses, i.e smile/wave, if that is not you feel. He has everything he wants right now; so it is easy for him to "smile and wave".


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## FrustratedFL (May 18, 2011)

Lost - I speculated that something was going on with EX since he was missing a lot at night, had classic phone hiding behavior and became so mean when conversing with him. I asked him what was going on but he denied anything and blamed it on work. Few weeks later while I was having a girls night out my cell phone rang and I was told by the OW she was seeing my EX for a year and half and loved him but he was not a nice guy. I was shocked All I kept thinking was a year and a half. That night was the beginning of the end of our family.

A few years later, I still get angry when speaking to him when he plays the victim. He is broke, I left him a pauper, He has no health insurance, No one likes him anymore, I am keeping his child from him. blah blah blah

Although I have progressed so much, I still have moments like last night. I received an email from EX latest gf wanting to tell me that after a year and a half dating (FYI my divorce was final 6 months ago.... do the math) she and EX were making future plans and that she wants to know why I am blocking my child from seeing them. If I had a gun, I could have shot her through my computer. Obviously, gf has been told a very huge lie. I just responded that she was fooled by her master manipulator boyfriend and that since I had sole custody, my Ex and I would need to make arrangements once he became an interested and responsible parent. 

and the drama continues!


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

Well I guess I might as well throw my two cents in. I used to train and breed Belgian Percherons.
I was actually quite skilled at it. Me and my fav used to even nap together in the sun. 
I miss that.

Okay back to the now.
Lost, you are actually watching a murder right now. 
In many ways it is even worse than a murder because its being drawn out over a long period of time.
To complicate matters even more, it’s being carried out by someone who looks JUST LIKE the person you fell in love with.
Now the murder isn’t you, although most of us felt like we were dying while it happened. That is because there is a third person in the room. You make up half of that person.
That person is named “Us”.
It’s an amalgamation of all your hopes, dreams, aspirations and sweet nothings. Trust is what hold this person together and love keeps part of you bonded to it.
Now these bonds are being severed by this stranger who looks like your husband.
Truly nightmarish stuff. 
It is both scary and surreal at the same time. Like a demon took possession of your husband’s body and is seeking to drive you out of your mind.
Some days you wonder how you will even get out of bed.
But you do.
Five months into my divorce/separation I was in a bad spot too.
I didn’t have TAM and I was pretty much all alone.
Somehow, I instinctively knew to show strength once most of the grief cleared and I had the luck to find a book from 1985 that basically espoused something close to a 180.
I was strong around her, but 5 months after she announced she surprised me with papers that showed up in my mailbox. She was picking the kids up that night. I helped them with their stuff and she just looked at me and gave me one of those pathetic looks. I pretty much used the last of my strength to say bye to my girls and watched them drive away.
Then my world came crashing down along with my entire body. I just couldn’t take it anymore and I buckled.
Quite literally.
I remember the grass coming up at me at lightning speed and my knee cracking as it bent wrongly. I remember the rock under my ribs and I remember seeing my arm stretched out in front of me as I settled on my right side looking down my arm.
I just didn’t move all the while willing the earth to just swallow me and end it all.
I remember the ants crawling on my arm and just simply not caring in any way shape or form.
I remember the darkness creeping in and the night beginning.
I remember my dog coming out and laying down next to me.
I don’t know if he actually knew what was happening but he came out to be with me.
That’s when I finally started climbing back out.
I sat up and put my dog on my lap and thought “I didn’t choose this, but I have to keep going.”
“This is gonna suck my friend.”

I got up and took Oscar inside, forced myself to eat and then watched some TV, giving myself time to recover.
The darkness couldn’t kill me. The silence couldn’t either.
As long as I chose to, I would survive.

…and you will too.

I know this all seems terribly overwhelming and totally unfair, but it’s the hand that was dealt to us.

You are at the tail end of your murder scene. Things WILL get better for you. Look at how much better off you are at 5 months than I was!
You WILL change…but for the better.
I remember thinking it would have been easier if my wife had died. In truth, it WOULD have been.
There would have been finality, a funeral and people would mourn with me. 
Instead I get no real closure, watch my love morph into something terrible and people look at me funny because they don’t know how to support an abandoned spouse.

But…I am a survivor
You are too.

You.
Are.
DOING.
It!
You have support and you are working your situation the best way you can.
Now your mission is to learn and grow and above all, be KIND to yourself.
What does this mean?
It means not letting people pressure you or rush you. It means understanding that you are a unique individual and your story can’t have a timetable for recovery because this can’t be for anyone but you.
Love your child and love yourself and continue your climb up from the darkness.
You are going to slide backwards some days. Some days will be better than others. You might get angry, depressed and then back to happy in less than a minute. Sometimes you will go for weeks with no real ripple. 
It’s all you.
Allow yourself to be who you are and embrace these events as natural and part of the process.
It’s perfectly natural to feel this way.
You watched your “Us” get murdered.
It’s a betrayal worthy of Shakespeare.
Take your time and recover properly…for yourself and for your child.
She them that NOTHING can get you down…at least not for long.

Now…as to your betrayer.
He did what he did for reasons that are entirely his own. Yes, you may have contributed in some ways but ultimately the decision rests on him. He has free will and could have done things differently.
But you can’t control anything he does.
You can no more control his actions than you can control the tides and the earth.
Yes he DID THIS…but he didn’t do it TO YOU.
Once you can make the separation from his actions and your personalization of his actions, things will start to look MUCH better. Work on making this distinction.
He has a whole basket full of reasons that have NOTHING to do with you and everything to do with him.

Now for the last little bit… a tiny bit of “reframing” if you will.

Take yourself out of the equation and put another woman in there. Now look at the situation.
40 some odd dude falls for barely out of college girl who most likely was awestruck by his powerful business. Then he leaves said business and refuses to work. How long do you think it will be before she wakes up and says “Of [email protected]! Im with a guy twice my age who has no earning potential and a messed up set of priorities. He isn’t a good parent and he is a sh1tty earner. I will have to carry his ass. Plus he cheated on you to be with me…what if he does it to me? This isn’t my Disney Dream…I’m outta here!!”
That’s the moment where YOU have the control and it WILL come.
Then the ball will be in your court.
But I’m thinking that by the time this has happened, you will have realized you deserve much better…then you will look back at your former self and marvel at how much you HAVE changed.
…and how you wouldn’t have it any other way.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

That is the danger of losing one's self into something like a marriage. The codependent will shift to please the other, and make a lot of changes to do so. Eventually they lose their self in the process. A level of detachment is actually a healthy thing. It allows us to take a step back, and process the facts in more of a neutral manner. The best way to be as objective as possible is be neutral. A codependent sense of self will be tied more to the relationship, and they cannot see themselves apart from their partner. So when the other spouse starts detaching, the codependent will become more clingy and needy because it is themselves that they are losing. We all are codependents in varying degrees, but we need to keep it at a healthy level.

In my psychology class, we learned that the people we come to know is just a construct. They are just a collection of data that we gather and help form our perception of them. Unfortunately, some of the data we gather is faulty, and it can be skewed, or we simply never know. Love is one of those things that can alter our perception. We are less likely to look at our partner more in a negative light. Usually, the more detach we become the more we notice their unfavorable traits. Have you ever hear the saying,"What did I ever see in that person?"

Love will sometimes blind us in that manner. When people give us the advice to detach, not only for us to break the bond to an unhealthy situation, it can often help us see things we never saw before. A good therapist has to be detached as much as possible for that very reason. Therapist offers a cold reflection of the reality from what data you give them, and they help your train of thoughts go down routes you never thought about. It offers greater insight on why things turned out the way it did.

When people give us advice on doing new things, finding new hobbies, going out with friends, we are creating a new identity in the process. The more we learn and discover, the more sense of our own sense of self we gain. The less we need the relationship to define us as who we are. Also, when we form new attachments, deepen bonds with others, we take the time and energy away from our other bonds, and they will wither away. We have the time and energy to maintain only a certain level of attachments. We tend to have to sacrifice one to maintain another. WE are only capable of knowing a certain amount of people, and we are only capable of forming a small amount of intimate attachments. So when your meeting new people, bonding with your son, going out with friends more, or just being with family, you strengthen those bonds, and the bond you have with your husband will wither , because you do not have the energy to maintain it. If you think of it like a path, the more you use it, the more it will keep the fauna at bay, but once it is less travel, eventually mother nature will reclaim it. Then you are left with the memories of a path once being there.

Sorry for the long post. I hope it helps you gain understanding and help you recover.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Yea, Interdependent is much more healthy.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

FrustratedFL, Wow - I'm sorry you had to listen to an email from the OW. Omg. I can't imagine what that had to feel like! I might even warn my ex one of these days, as a pre-warning - to NEVER allow that to happen, ever. That would completely destroy me, and I'm sorry you had to deal with that. What a loser he is, for allowing this OW to send you an email. He sounds cowardly.

You say, his latest gf.. Is it a different one, than the one he cheated on you with? Do you feel everyone of his women he meets are in someway, a rebound relationship - since he still feels the need to continue the drama with you?

You know how people say, the OW he left you for - will not stick. I have a feeling she already split. I don't know for sure, but - I know for awhile he was living with her, and now I know he isn't. This came up during visitation discussions between us/attorneys, and I said - I can tell you right now our son will not be going to this woman's apartment, are you kidding me? He looked at me and said "I'm not living there anymore, and I haven't even talked to her for a long time" - I don't know if I believe him about not talking to her, but I do know he isn't living there. Or at least not with my son. This was back in November. However, he sent me that email, about a month ago - informing me, that he met new people/friends and was dating (but nothing serious) - and that I was nothing to him. So... In your experiences with this... Do the "second" girlfriends, they leave the OW for, work out? I mean technically were still married, technically it's still not been that long - so certainly she too is a rebound relationship - yes?


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Yes


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Jack - Thank you for the nice post, you have a good way of explaining what this feels/looks like. That is one of the hardest thing, and I can't remember who now (I'm sorry, long thread now) told me in one of the first few pages, that the pain was b/c I was imagining the life WE had, continuing with the OW. I never really looked at it that way, but that was true. I did picture that, I pictured all the good qualities we had together, now being given to someone else - and it's very destructive. However, what I'm struggling to recognize is - he isn't the same person. I don't know why I can't get that through my head. I believe it when someone tells me it, but at the same time - I've yet to grasp it fully.

I know what you mean about your knees buckling - literally. Same thing happened to me. On my sons first day back to school after the bus pulled away - EX jumped in his car (he was already moved out), rolled the window down and said "By the way, the papers were filed - you should be getting served any day" and he drove off. Not only was I emotional about son going back to school, dealing with a man who left me for another woman, but now - learning that Wow - he is seriously leaving me. He filed. Mind you, I was still in my plea bargaining stages with him, not completely willing to give up yet. So, that made it harder to hear too. I stood there for a minute, turned and walked my way back to the house, started crying so hard - I could barely stand up, and just let myself fall to the ground. I don't know how long I laid there. I screamed, I cried, I begged with God. Thank God, we live in the country, and no one was around - but, I think I would've done it anyway, even if I had neighbors. I had no control at that moment. 

Thank you for the encouragement, you're right. I am doing it, even though I feel like I'm not - I guess I am, in some way. I've managed to be here today - 5 months ago, I wasn't sure where I would be. The day he moved out, I left. I couldn't stand to be here. I went to my Mom and Dads, and I remember begging and pleading with her, to tell me this was just a nightmare. Tell me I'm OK. Tell me, I'll be OK. Tell me anything, just help me. We called my sister, and she came over with her husband - her husband took my son, and took him to their house - to play. My mom and sister spent hours and hours trying to calm me down. I think, I had a nervous breakdown. I begged them to take me to the hospital, so that they would literally put me to sleep, and wake me up when it was over. So yeah... I'm not there anymore. But - in some ways, it still feels painful - just in a different way - a more controlled way, b/c in the beginning I was definitely out of control. 

I'm not sure I understand, when you say - he did this, but he didn't do it to you. He did it to himself, for his own reasons? 

When you say, then the ball will be in your court. I think that is what I want, for a sense of satisfaction of some kind. I want him to show me, that he regrets the life (with son and I) that he gave up - for a dream of some other woman. The problem is, I have reason to believe that relationship with the OW is already over - and he's on to another person. At least that is how he is made it sound, and to me - that tells me - well, now that he's with someone else - it's different, b/c she isn't the one who will eventually leave him b/c of what he did to me. Hard to explain what I'm saying.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Blossom Leigh said:


> Yea, Interdependent is much more healthy.



I thought that was why tam was created for. Lol. She needs the support to help her get back on her feet. People in her support system can help keep the focus away from him while she breaks her bond to him. She just needs the distraction while she recovers, and she will not be bonded to her support system as she will be to a mate. Even now she is using tam as a crutch. Eventually the goal in all of this is for her to stand on her own two feet. Friends can do something we cannot, and that is cheer her up when she is depressed, take her out when she needs it, and have someone who can talk face to face. With the therapist help, she can learn to break her codependency issues. 

We, here on tam, are her support system as well. She is relying on our experience to help her make informed decisions. As she grows and learn, she will need us less. She will become less dependent on us. Eventually she will need her support system even less. Alcoholics need a support system for them to break the addiction until they become sober enough to stand on their own. Same concept.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Mr.Fisty said:


> I thought that was why tam was created for. Lol. She needs the support to help her get back on her feet. People in her support system can help keep the focus away from him while she breaks her bond to him. She just needs the distraction while she recovers, and she will not be bonded to her support system as she will be to a mate. Even now she is using tam as a crutch. Eventually the goal in all of this is for her to stand on her own two feet. Friends can do something we cannot, and that is cheer her up when she is depressed, take her out when she needs it, and have someone who can talk face to face. With the therapist help, she can learn to break her codependency issues.
> 
> We, here on tam, are her support system as well. She is relying on our experience to help her make informed decisions. As she grows and learn, she will need us less. She will become less dependent on us. Eventually she will need her support system even less. Alcoholics need a support system for them to break the addiction until they become sober enough to stand on their own. Same concept.


Yep  growing personal support systems is smart


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

It takes time. You have not yet associated him with the current him. Slowly, your perception of him will change. Apart of you, your attachment to him, is not willing yet to accept that what you know is gone. The more you detach, the more willing you will be able to see him more clearly. Love is responsible for the rose tinted glasses, and your still in love with him. 

He may never come to his senses, and he may be this manipulative a$$, and you probably never really knew him as well as you thought. A part of you might be in denial. There is probably a part of you that yearns for your old life. Don't focus on him, and do not focus to far into the future. Take the small steps it takes to get there. This is a crucible, and your tempering yourself to become stronger. It is a process, but eventually you will get there.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Hi Mr Fisty, I like your posts - no apologies for the length of them! I am the Queen of lengthy posts it seems  I hope you're feeling better today.

I think that makes sense what you're saying about codependency and detaching. Let me clear this up, I am the one who is co-dependent in this relationship (I admit that, I was very dependent on him for many things, he wanted it that way though - b/c before we met - I was very INDEPENDENT, I lived on my own, had my own home, car, job, etc. - that all changed over the years after marriage - I was suddenly the stay at home mom, I didn't work, I did have a car, but all decisions were his to make, etc) - and that is why I've tried to cling to this relationship - b/c I'm afraid I'm losing myself in it? 

What you taught me, about how we see people - is true, I believe that now. Yes, I've heard that before "What did I ever see in......?" I've even said it myself a time or two. I want to reach the point, where I say it about him. 

I saw my therapist today - first time in over 2 weeks, and wow. I almost cried leaving there, b/c I was so happy and felt like a weight was lifted. I never want to go 2 weeks again without seeing him, b/c that was too hard and bad timing (holidays). I said to him "I feel like sometimes it would just be easier to have him home (no, he isn't trying to come home, but that is what I said) because then the pain would be gone. He looked at me and said "I understand why you think that, but you're wrong. The pain would be the same - if not worse. Because the feelings you are feeling now, will be replaced by... What is he hiding from me this time, where is he at, who is he talking to, who, what, where, when and why, why did I take him back - what if I get hurt again, etc etc etc". That made sense to me. He is probably right. So, I am confusing myself with thinking it would all be better, and easier if he came home. It wouldn't. It would be replaced by other worries, pains and troubles.

I like how you explained the path... I hope Mother nature takes over soon. That's all I can say. One of my biggest questions, I ask over and over is - "How do you know, it will get easier!" or "What if it doesn't?!!" 

I think I've got myself so worried and worked up that it won't get easier, that I'm stuck. But - by being here - and listening to others share their stories and encouragement - it shows me, I am/was wrong. Thank you for the help!


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

Lost40 said:


> Jack - Thank you for the nice post, you have a good way of explaining what this feels/looks like. That is one of the hardest thing, and I can't remember who now (I'm sorry, long thread now) told me in one of the first few pages, that the pain was b/c I was imagining the life WE had, continuing with the OW. I never really looked at it that way, but that was true. I did picture that, I pictured all the good qualities we had together, now being given to someone else - and it's very destructive. However, what I'm struggling to recognize is - he isn't the same person. I don't know why I can't get that through my head. I believe it when someone tells me it, but at the same time - I've yet to grasp it fully.
> 
> I know what you mean about your knees buckling - literally. Same thing happened to me. On my sons first day back to school after the bus pulled away - EX jumped in his car (he was already moved out), rolled the window down and said "By the way, the papers were filed - you should be getting served any day" and he drove off. Not only was I emotional about son going back to school, dealing with a man who left me for another woman, but now - learning that Wow - he is seriously leaving me. He filed. Mind you, I was still in my plea bargaining stages with him, not completely willing to give up yet. So, that made it harder to hear too. I stood there for a minute, turned and walked my way back to the house, started crying so hard - I could barely stand up, and just let myself fall to the ground. I don't know how long I laid there. I screamed, I cried, I begged with God. Thank God, we live in the country, and no one was around - but, I think I would've done it anyway, even if I had neighbors. I had no control at that moment.
> 
> ...


Yeah I got your back. Just remember that phrase. Not TO you, but TO himself.

PM me if you need, but its very crucial you see this right.
I understand the confusion you feel.'
It's not that hard to see once you see him as he actually is.

Only a third of the things he says are true...
...and only a third of the things you assume are true as well.
Rest easy and come back to these problems tomorrow.

It WILL get better.
Promise.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Mr.Fisty said:


> It takes time. You have not yet associated him with the current him. Slowly, your perception of him will change. Apart of you, your attachment to him, is not willing yet to accept that what you know is gone. The more you detach, the more willing you will be able to see him more clearly. Love is responsible for the rose tinted glasses, and your still in love with him.
> 
> He may never come to his senses, and he may be this manipulative a$$, and you probably never really knew him as well as you thought. A part of you might be in denial. There is probably a part of you that yearns for your old life. Don't focus on him, and do not focus to far into the future. Take the small steps it takes to get there. This is a crucible, and your tempering yourself to become stronger. It is a process, but eventually you will get there.



That is the truth -- small steps.. one step at a time, sometimes two steps forward - one step back. I remember that in childbirth, my nurse told me that - sometimes it takes that - to get the final outcome (delivery, lol). I need to slow down (my mind) and take my time, I know!

You are spot on, this is a wonderful support group and I'm relying a lot on you wonderful ladies and gentlemen. I hope to be here like you all, returning the favor one day. I'm sure I will, I love it here.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

The only thing that helps is time. You often don't see the progress day-to-day but you do see it when you look back to where you were and where you are now. Don't focus on how much time it's taking. Live in the moment. Realize it's an up-and-down process. And far from easy. But you WILL get through it.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Btw, he will be a bully to try and get under your skin. In his view, you ruined his life by not going along with him using you, and leaving you with nothing. You really do need to detach and see if he has this type of trait before, although maybe to a lesser degree. Was he aggressive, did he bully you in the past, was everything fine as long as you pleased him?

Every encounter with him should be worn with a neutral mask. Use little words as possible, and if he gets off topic from your son, simply reply,"Are we done here?" Talk to a lawyer and ask about the voice recording laws in your area. If he makes threats, or verbally abuse you, you may have it documented. In return, you give him nothing. Seek a lawyer and see what your options are.


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## Jane139 (Jan 6, 2015)

I don't think you should count on him ever acknowledging that maybe he made a mistake, or is sorry he left. He may never do that. He may be getting what he wants now, new relationships, no real commitment, etc.

Maybe he will regret leaving his family...but you could be in for a disappointment if you count too much on waiting to hear that. His "pride" or ego could keep him from ever saying that, even if he does eventually have regrets.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Mr.Fisty said:


> Btw, he will be a bully to try and get under your skin. In his view, you ruined his life by not going along with him using you, and leaving you with nothing. You really do need to detach and see if he has this type of trait before, although maybe to a lesser degree. Was he aggressive, did he bully you in the past, was everything fine as long as you pleased him?
> 
> Every encounter with him should be worn with a neutral mask. Use little words as possible, and if he gets off topic from your son, simply reply,"Are we done here?" Talk to a lawyer and ask about the voice recording laws in your area. If he makes threats, or verbally abuse you, you may have it documented. In return, you give him nothing. Seek a lawyer and see what your options are.


This brings the book Betrayal Bonds to mind.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Mr.Fisty said:


> Btw, he will be a bully to try and get under your skin. In his view, you ruined his life by not going along with him using you, and leaving you with nothing. You really do need to detach and see if he has this type of trait before, although maybe to a lesser degree. Was he aggressive, did he bully you in the past, was everything fine as long as you pleased him?


Well the bullying has seemed to stop, which is what has me confused partially. I'm so used to him acting out that way since this all happened, with the exception of a few nice periods when he wanted something (sex). Perhaps it's because I am not doing anything currently to warrant it. Our divorce is on a stand still until he finds employment, and therefore he isn't being asked or told anything. I'm sure as soon as it starts up again, and he is told - what for as far as support goes, he will blow up again. Maybe, but I'm sure.

He was never really what I would call aggressive and never physically so. 

He did however - have an amazing talent for doing the silent treatment/ignoring me. He could do this for hours, or days probably. So, if we ever had any kind of argument, big or small - or - he tried to be nasty for one thing or another and I called him on it. He would just start the silent treatment. Because he knew, it was the one thing - I couldn't deal with for long. I could handle it for an hour or two - maybe an entire evening. But going into several hours or the next day. No. I had great issues with that. And he knew I did. It was the one thing, I wish I could take back on my part - handling that better. 

Basically what I would do is, let him pout for awhile. But, then I would get tired of it - need him for something - want to talk - etc. So, I would usually go up to him, and say "Let's stop this, I'm tired of this, please stop". He would either just glare at me, laugh or smirk in my face, get up and walk out of the room, or completely ignore me. And, then all bets were off. I would get angrier. Sometimes I would cry, sometimes I would yell at him and tell him how nasty he was (this was when he would laugh at me or walk out of the room) and that I was tired of being treated this way, etc. etc. NOW - he had me where he wanted me. Now, I was the one fighting. And, now - whatever happened was no longer his problem - it was mine, and I had to apologize for it. And, I did. 

Here is a good example. It was Fathers Day, this past year. The affair was ongoing, I knew it was happening - but couldn't seem to figure out how to handle it - he wouldn't admit to it - I was questioning myself and him (is it really true, maybe I'm wrong? type of thing) and we were having a very nice Fathers Day. It was just the 3 of us - enjoying the day. Well, she texted him. He happened to have his phone in sight - not typical - and I saw the message. It said "Hi XXX, bringing you your favorite meal tomorrow (to work) - I'm making it tonight!" 

I saw red. Here it is, Fathers Day. And, you're going to text my husband when you know he has a wife and child - and are likely celebrating the day - and tell him that? EX knew I saw the message because I'm sure my jaw hit the floor. I walked outside (because I knew I was going to cry) - and he followed me outside - acting like he wasn't sure I saw the message - so what possibly is wrong? I told him, I said I saw the message - that is incredibly wrong to do, anytime - much less on Fathers Day. Here I am, making sure this day is a nice day for you and your son - and this is what happens. Well - he turned to his silent treatment stuff. Basically not giving a crap about his son, and the rest of the day. It was humiliating and I felt sorry for my son. 

I told him to text her, and tell her - No. I said you can say whatever as an excuse - but End that idea, right now. He wouldn't do it. Then, lashed out at me for being a jealous, nasty person - who refused to let him have a friend. I said she is more than a friend and you know it. I said you have other friends - some men, some women - and this is very different and you know that. So - he turned it into my fault - for getting angry. 

That is how he did things.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

The whole, affair idea went on way too long - I know it did. I just wasn't willing to give myself credit for knowing better. I questioned myself, I questioned him, I questioned everything. I was SURE I was wrong. I am not the jealous type, and I certainly never questioned this before now - so why now, type of thing. 


I still question it. I know better, but I still think to myself sometimes... what if I was wrong?

He has me so convinced I was wrong... His excuse now is, sure after you kicked me out (and I didn't kick him out - I gave him a choice) of course I'm going to have a relationship with her. Why wouldn't I. But - I'm not that stupid. I don't think.


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## FrustratedFL (May 18, 2011)

Lost - My EX is very cowardly. Our marriage counselor gave same adjective.

latest GF is different than the OW affair partner. OW was a train wreck and happy to have her gone. Felon and criminal. 

EX still keeping up his old ways - when latest gf emailed me the other night she wrote, "When I met ### in August 2013 he told me he was divorced. He also told me he was coming out of a serious relationship with someone else". As I am reading this line I am thinking he meant me and our 17 year marriage but NO.... he was referring to his affair OW. I had to laugh at this statement. 

She continued to write "After we decided to escalate our relationship he then told me that the divorce was not finalized"

This is typical of my EX. And after 3 years of separation/divorce proves he has not learned a thing. Same behavior - She is dumb enough to believe in him. He will cheat again - maybe a few years from now since right now they are in the shiny new penny phase but I believe he likes the drama and continues to irritate me.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

He was to honor, cherish, love, protect, provide.

Nothing above tells me he did. AND he chose to let his poor behavior spill onto an innocent child. 

This was where I drew the line in my house. I had begun to recognize when my H would escalate and he too did the pouting thing, but his was a certain kind of brooding that would have us walking on some serious eggshells for days. Finally, one morning after four straight days of pouting and angry brooding after MONTHS of volatile fights, he chose to not only not speak to me on the way out of the door, but also not to speak to our 5 year old child and hurt his heart. THAT was when I texted him and told him not to come back home until his attitude improved. I wasn't putting up with that crappy behavior. He stayed gone for about 4 months give or take. It was during that time he decided to get serious about his problems with anger. 

Do not tolerate this emotional abuse designed to illicit the reactions he wants to fulfill the selfish desires he has. THAT is VERY unloving. Settle for no less than loving. Loving doesn't include manipulation, humiliation, belittling, silent treatment, etc. You deserve better and so does your child.


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## FrustratedFL (May 18, 2011)

Reading a lot of the stories in this thread has brought me back to the early days. My EX would say I was crazy to suspect anything, I was jealous, looking for a fight, always refer to a mistake of some inept skill, I hit the wrong button, etc. TYPICAL GASLIGHTING FROM A BETRAYER.

After the big reveal when OW called me, we tried marriage counseling but he lied each session. Swore it was ended, that I was just a B-tch and would not get over it, etc. 

I too saw a text message on his phone saying, "Today's lunch is fried chicken, potato salad and the good bread - see you later". 
I grabbed the phone went into the bathroom, locked the door and tried to look up history. He had it pretty secure with passcodes.

He started yelling that he fixed the AC unit where she worked and she was thanking him..... I laugh when thinking all the lies that came out of his mouth. He screamed at me that I was obsessed with his phone and I needed to STOP.  

I came out of bathroom with phone, went outside on my deck and threw it in the pool. I turned and said, My obsession is cured.... Get the f**ck out". That was the last day we lived together. I still have the image of him with the pool skimmer trying to scoop up his phone. CLASSIC!

ahhh memories....! Now someone else's problem. Good therapy this throw back thursday image.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

FrustratedFL said:


> I came out of bathroom with phone, went outside on my deck and threw it in the pool. I turned and said, My obsession is cured.... Get the f**ck out". That was the last day we lived together. I still have the image of him with the pool skimmer trying to scoop up his phone. CLASSIC!
> 
> ahhh memories....! Now someone else's problem. Good therapy this throw back thursday image.


:rofl::rofl::rofl:

omg I love it!


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

FrustratedFL said:


> He screamed at me that I was obsessed with his phone and I needed to STOP. I came out of bathroom with phone, went outside on my deck and threw it in the pool. I turned and said, My obsession is cured.... Get the f**ck out". That was the last day we lived together. I still have the image of him with the pool skimmer trying to scoop up his phone. CLASSIC!


:allhail:


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

I know... post of the day right? LOL!


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Frustrated - Yes - it sounds like he is a serial cheater, from what I've read here - once they do it, they continue. He likes drama. So does my EX - but, I can honestly say - I don't think he EVER cheated on me before this woman. Which tells me, I don't think its in him to do it, I think something happened that caused it - like mid-life crisis or she had him completely fooled. I blame her for a lot of it as well. Not just him. He obviously is an adult and made the decision to let her lead him... but, she started it, IMO.



Blossom - Yes. That is kind of what I used to say... "We deserve better" - but now, of course I go back on that... and say, I deserve another chance at trying. I mean, he wouldn't try anything - no MC, no nothing. He just up and walked out without trying anything at all. And he filed so FAST. I begged him to at least wait 6 months, and then file if you feel the same - but No. He filed right away. My therapist said, it sounds like he is ....and he used a word - that escaping me as I type this. Basically meaning, does things fast without thinking. 



He texted me again today... about an hour ago - letting me know he was running late to pick up son. Then he went into the story about why (something about waiting for hours for a tire for his car, and he had to raise hell to get them to do anything, etc.) - obviously looking for conversation. Because normally he doesn't text me if he's running late - he texts his son, and tells him. Ended up being he wasn't late anyway, he was here on time.

:scratchhead:


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Compulsive


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Frustrated, that is awesome! Good for you! 

I used to hear the same thing, your obsessed with my phone and that is when he started deleting all her messages and locking his phone.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Blossom Leigh said:


> Compulsive


Yes, I think that was the word. Yes it was.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Interesting... makes me wonder if the tides are changing.

Keep your detachment going and non-engagement in his personal affairs. You may see him singing a different tune soon, but you will not be able to tell if it is a ploy or authentic. ONLY time can reveal that. So stay the course.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Blossom Leigh said:


> Interesting... makes me wonder if the tides are changing.
> 
> Keep your detachment going and non-engagement in his personal affairs. You may see him singing a different tune soon, but you will not be able to tell if it is a ploy or authentic. ONLY time can reveal that. So stay the course.


Doesnt matter. She needs to keep him out of her life, he is a POS.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

I know... That is why I am so confused right now, because it wasn't even a month ago - he sent me an email telling me that I was nothing - he is happier than ever - his family and friends tell him that - if I have anything to say - it only needs to be about our son, and if anything else - it goes through attorney only. Then he ended it with - don't even reply to this. 

I never replied to that - I told him I received it (about a week later when he tried to comment on something regarding our son), and that it was a gem of an email - but that is about all I said. I've pretty much been NC since the email. When he asks me something, I kind of took on the "kill him with kindness" act - b/c I want him to feel like a jerk for treating someone nice like that - and, also so he thinks I am happy and moved on.

Of course, since the email - he wants to engage in small talk over text... but nothing big, like I've said. Just stupid stuff, like his car tire - and whatever else he's come up with. I don't really reply, I just say "Ok, no problem" and go on.

I'm sticking with the NC - but I kind of feel like I need to do something else, or maybe he will go back to mean again. I don't really know how to play this.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

3Xnocharm said:


> Doesnt matter. She needs to keep him out of her life, he is a POS.



He really is, the way he treated me through all this. you're right. The problem is, I still unfortunately love him and his actions are telling me he is trying for something, and it confuses me on how to act?


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Protect yourself until he shows long term change in behavior.

Otherwise he stays out.

And I don't say that lightly. I am a HUGE proponent of reconciliation and I'm walking in that personally in the face of major obstacles, but I can because of who I am. I felt like I was equipped and ready for it. So I did. Even being equipped and ready it was HELL. We are just now settling consistently into the new creation of our relationship over two years past his infidelity and only three months past his last abuse episode. His abuse has reduced drastically, though the last episode (verbal) was only three months ago. But my point is he is consistently SHOWING me by doing intensive therapy and walking consistently at home that he is in this for the long haul. Because your stbx has shown himself to be a manipulator even when he is nice, his nice cannot be trusted AT ALL. Just be neutral with it.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Your goal is neutral. It is to detach until you can be fine without him. You really do not know if he comes back , he will put in the hard work, or walk away again. That is why you need the detachment, your not sure of the outcome. You need to be strong and protect yourself. Plus, he is capable of manipulating you. If you show him nothing, he may show his true colors. If he wants to come back, I would not allow him to live with you.

I am not sure about this, but if you take him back, it will count as a reconciliation , and the evidence you have before, might not matter anymore. You need the help of a lawyer to give you advice.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

How you play it? There is no playing this, treat him like he's nothing and give him no reaction. 

And it's a mistake to blamed ow, she's just a dumb wh0re that's stuck with a 40 year old pos. Her friends probably think she's insane..... she probably saw it as a way to further career but instead she's got a scumbag with nothing living her. It was him that made the decision to throw you away when presented with the option of his family or a piece of trash. He saw you as a doormat, and frankly you were, that would fold when he bullied you. He's really po'd that this didn't happen. He's an arrogant pr!ck. 

You're still spending way too much time worrying about his plans, still giving him power over you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Its cases like these where Mr. Blunt's advice to divorce first then reconcile makes sense.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Hi guys, I'm reading but I have to head out for a bit to a meeting I joined. It's for my gym classes I signed up for. 

I will respond later tonight. Just wanted you to know I'm not posting and running.

I definitely want the divorce at this point, if we reconciled - it would have to be after - at this point. Only because, I need to set things up different as far as the finances/business goes. To protect myself from this nightmare I faced this time. There would have to be a prenup. 

I'm talking like that is going to happen and I have no clue. I don't even know what I want at this point, other than to have life back the way I knew it before this OW. Other than the things he used to do that were negative - those need to go too.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

What is Mr Blunts advice? 

Do people ever get divorced and reconcile after a divorce is final?

I can't imagine spending all this money on lawyers and divorces, to only go back the way it was. So no - that won't happen. I dont know what I want. I'm confused.

Perhaps he is only just being nice to be nice. How can you tell the difference? Or, what if he's just being nice b/c he wants to be friends.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Lost40 said:


> What is Mr Blunts advice?
> 
> Do people ever get divorced and reconcile after a divorce is final?
> 
> ...


Yes, he did and remarried her after his former WS consistently showed herself trustworthy after four years.

You won't be able to tell right away.

Take your time to discover what you want. But I like your thinking on divorce first, protecting yourself and prenups/postnups kind of thing.


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## FrustratedFL (May 18, 2011)

I agree with lifetooshort. I also analyzed the affair and blamed the OW and thought it was a mid life crisis. Dad died and business was losing money due to economy. Thought this was the reasons for the change. He went out and bought a Harley motorcycle without telling me and I thought it was classic MLC. 

But after the dust settled and I got my mind back, I realized he had NO regard for me, our child, his family, our life we created together, our financial needs or his religion/values. His choices destroyed trust, future, security and my dreams. 

Whether serial cheater or one time deal - It is the wayward spouse who makes that choice. It is up to you to draw a line in the sand and tell him you are worth more. You are doing very well and getting on with your life. Applaud yourself and concentrate on you!


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## Jane139 (Jan 6, 2015)

You need to train yourself not to love him...anyway, not seeing much there to love, personally.

The word may be "impulsive" i.e quick to act. But he did act...and has not taken it back.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

I just think I wont ever find love again. I know that is my problem, its what my therapist keeps asking me over and over...

"Are you missing the person, or the companion?" And, I think the answer is companion. I'm sure it is, he really did not do a whole helluva lot for me, except hurt me and ended up using me. So, I'm just not sure what I'm feeling or thinking. He is a handsome guy and when he wanted to be nice - he was extra nice. I was comfortable with him. I think that is why I say "him". But - I need to know better.

My therapist told me this also... he said: There is a difference in being happy alone, and being lonely. He thinks I am lonely. I think I agree. Because, my issue isn't - needing to be with another guy. In fact I don't even want that right now. I know for a fact, b/c I tested the theory. lol


BUT - that isn't the only problem. I will never be a thin person, its just not how I was born I guess. I'm not like extra heavy or anything, but I have a curvy figure and could stand to lose a few - but even if I do - I won't ever be a thin or skinny type. And, through the divorce - I was made to feel like I would always be alone (b.c of that), and for some reason - that is one of the only negative comments he made, that stuck with me through all of this.

Ugh.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Son just got home... I asked him if he had fun, like I do - and he went on to tell me about what they did. Then he finished with.....


Then dad took a shower, and we came here. So........... now I know, he's going somewhere probably with the OW. 

That irks me so bad... Blah!


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Do not worry, and just get in the best shape as you can. Do not let him dictate your self-worth. You have other things that you can offer a mate. Your kind, generous, if you find a guy that likes horses, you two can share a passion, and you would know your good traits, and so do the other people around you. You have friends and family that care. You have to learn to value yourself,and learn to be single at the moment.

Your too focus on him still, and it is understandable. Love is obsessive, and that is why you need help at the moment to take the focus away from him. The more detach you are, the less you care about what he is doing, unless it deals with your son.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

And, to make myself sound like a broken record - the way to detach is stay busy? do things I enjoy? 

It seems I stay busy enough, but when I'm busy - I'm either thinking about him anyway - or when I'm done being busy - the thoughts are back on him again. I will say it HAS gotten better since July - I don't obsess as much, I know what he's doing - and I only ask myself "for how long will he do it?" Where as before, it was "what is he doing, why is he doing it, how long is he going to do it, who with, how much is he spending on her (but this was b/c son and I were getting ZERO), where is he going, with who - how often, what's he wearing, why is he wearing THAT? etc etc etc. You get the idea. 

I had a friend over last night - she actually used to be a friend of the family - her husband and her ... but, since this happened - they have sided with me. They even have his side of the story, after he found out they knew - he asked them to meet him for dinner - the husband went, not the wife. They know both sides, and they still chose to stand by me. He admitted enough basically.

So we're still friends... the 3 of us, no longer 4 of us. They come over, they help me out when I need help, basically best friends. She came over, and I told her my sob story about - "Do I want him back, maybe I do?" thing - and she said "Stop it! You know you can never trust him again... I can't even imagine what he would have to do to earn your trust back. You don't deserve to be treated that way... respect yourself more than that - you'll be okay!!" Then, she said ... "Anytime he enters your mind, just reach up there and throw him out of it. Think about your future - daydream if you have to"

So - okay... now I'm hearing it from just about everyone... and it certainly has to sink in!!


I think my thing is, I see only the good in him... I remember the good, and out with the bad. I actually do that with everything in life for the most part. I'm not one to hold a grudge - especially on someone I used to love.

I need to stop that - b/c I do deserve better.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Lost40 said:


> And, to make myself sound like a broken record - the way to detach is stay busy? do things I enjoy?
> 
> It seems I stay busy enough, but when I'm busy - I'm either thinking about him anyway - or when I'm done being busy - the thoughts are back on him again. I will say it HAS gotten better since July - I don't obsess as much, I know what he's doing - and I only ask myself "for how long will he do it?" Where as before, it was "what is he doing, why is he doing it, how long is he going to do it, who with, how much is he spending on her (but this was b/c son and I were getting ZERO), where is he going, with who - how often, what's he wearing, why is he wearing THAT? etc etc etc. You get the idea.
> 
> ...


Lost, one of the things you need to do is keep repeating to yourself that your soon to be ex hb is a scumbag. You're falling into the trap of remembering the good times and that keeps you in the mindset of the OW having this great life with him that should be yours. This is completely normal.....here's a story for you. When I was in the military, I had a drill sergeant that was stationed in WA for a while. He used to tell us that when he was there he hated it and couldn't wait to leave.....it was cold, the duty stunk, people were jerks, etc. Eventually he got out, but then he started to forget about all the crap and miss it. All he remembered were the good times with his buddies, who he probably couldn't stand half the time, but the few good times he had were all he remembered. At this point he'd received orders to go back and was looking forward to it, but I can almost guarantee once he got there it sucked again. He told us he knew that would happen....it's just normal to look back at the good times even if there weren't that many.

The guy you thought you knew doesn't exist, at least not anymore. People change, and he's changed into a scumbag without honor or integrity. This thing with OW isn't going to last, it's probably obvious to anyone, and there's a good chance he will be back. But if you take him back he'll try to bully you on his terms, and eventually he'll find another OW and you'll have the same thing.

That part of your life is over, and even if you never found love again all you'd be missing is a pos that was always looking for the next OW to make him feel good about himself as he ages. And it's very likely you will find someone that really appreciates you, but you will mess it up as long as you're still focused on this dirtbag. Stay busy and every time you think about him repeat to yourself:" f!ck him and the horse he rode in on, I'm so glad he's ow's woman's problem now". Nobody knows better than you what kind of man he's turned into, OW has no idea what kind of dirtbag she has but eventually she'll figure it out. Now that he's crossed this line he'll find someone else to cheat with, and when he has no better prospects he'll try to sponge off of you while he looks for the next one. Do not engage him anymore except regarding your son, ignore all other communication. In fact, watch what happens as soon as he thinks you have another guy.....he'll harass you for details because that will mean you're no longer plan B. Which you are right now. Let. Him. Go.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Doing okay today - feeling some strength in myself today. The days he picks up son are usually my hardest because he is physically here.

Today he was late - and he didn't text to tell me, like he did last week. I find that odd - b/c he truly was late today, but not last week. I don't even know why the SOB is late in the first place. He has no job... it's not like he can't try to be on time.

However, what he did do was - he texted me when he got here. Asking if son was home? Uhm... why wouldn't he be? I ignored it. Then after I ignored that, then he texted me saying "Son says he isn't having tutoring until Feb, is that true?" - I ignored that. Then he called my cell phone, then he called my house phone. I didn't answer either call. He didn't leave a message either. Not sure why he called... This was all AFTER son was in his car and with him.

I feel strong, for not replying or answering the phone calls. I told my son, to let him know that Yes tutoring wasn't until Feb. So, that way - he knows I got the message, and chose to go through son to relay the message - and not him.


Its easy to get angry with him, when my son has a 1 hour game every weekend, just 1 hour - and his father can't take time out of his schedule to come watch the game. That happened this weekend... and personally I find that disgusting. He has no job... it's not like he can't go b/c of work.


What happens when you ignore them, like I am doing? Do they give up and stop?


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

If it is dealing with your child, then you should answer. If it persists beyond that, then do not reply. If it is things that he should already know, then do not answer either. It is best if you just text him, so he cannot claim he does not have the information documented.

Sounds like he might be in another relationship, though it would be only a guess. If he is missing out on his child's life without any explanations,it tends to be a relationship since the beginning stage is an obsessive one. We could only guess though, and the only important fact that he is not there. Just be the stable, strong role model for your son, and surround him with stable male role models also. As long as there is stability, your son will be fine.


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## Jane139 (Jan 6, 2015)

It is my belief that generally the other person, (spouse or partner) helps you get over them in time, by turning into a jerk, or at least you finally realizing that he/she is a jerk, either from past or current behavior. 

I am in the early stages right now, separated just a month. So far we have minimal but cordial communication via email only. But I am planning to contact him this week to feel him out about a legal separation or divorce and won't be surprised if he then becomes less cordial, maybe even "jerkish" and that my current feelings of empathy toward him could change.

I think sometimes we are trying to get over our previous life as much as actually the person. It kind of all blends together, in my opinion.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Mr Fisty - OK good point, about replying to child related things. That is what I think too... another relationship is going. Which confuses me, as to why he tries to contact me with stupid crap. But - oh well. I guess. I don't like thinking about him in a relationship - at all, but.. there is nothing I can do about it. I can only hope its a terrible one - and that it won't last - but, I'm sure it will - because the man is a swindler and romancer - and he will romance her until the cows come home - and she will be hooked. He won't leave her either, obviously. He told me he hated me all these years and only stayed with me "because". So, obviously he'll stay with whoever. I hope it doesn't last though. Only because, it hurts me deeply to picture him with someone else, so soon after our relationship of 13 years and we share a child together. I don't see how you can truly be "moved on" at this stage (We're still married) to form a relationship that means anything anyway - with someone. Does it mean anything at all - that he is already in a "second" relationship with another woman? Because, I truly truly believe - though no proof of this, that the first one - is gone. Maybe the second one has better luck.

I swear my son will see stability from me, I won't date until I am fully 100% ready - and until my son is comfortable with the idea.


Jane - You make a good point, it's all jumbled into one. I thought the ex being a jerk would help me get over them too - but, my ex has been the King - the definition of Jerk. And, it hasn't seemed to do much good - but.. I'm a glutton for punishment too I think, which doesn't help. Best wishes on your upcoming emails. I hope you get what you deserve out of him.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Don't believe him when he says he hated you all these years. That is a lie he is attempting to tell himself and told it to you to build it up in his mind, but you and I both know it's a lie. It's the only way he can live with himself.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

I had therapy today. I like the guy a lot - but, he told me today - that eventually I need to stop rehashing the same things over and over - b/c I am only keeping myself in this spiral by doing that. I didn't like hearing that. Personally I want to keep rehashing it. It feels good to say it - and get feedback on it. I don't know how I feel about that, so he has now taken me into something he is calling "Cognitive Behavioral Therapy" - and wants me to start doing something called Advanced Thinking. I think he called it, I have to start "tracking" it today. I don't know what that's going to do, but I will try it.

I bought myself a journal today. I will start journaling my thoughts, stories and fears and encouragements. I hope that helps. I am starting to feel extremely desperate for anything at all - to magically take this away. The things I do help, obviously - as therapist had me go back in thought to September and remind myself where I was even then - to where I am now - but... you know... it's almost more painful now - because, before - I knew he was a lonely man... sprouting around with someone 13 years younger than him, and he had to be very miserable. Now - he is onto someone new - and obviously happy - to put her above his own son... and, that kills me. Well - he did the same thing with the bimbo too... he put her above him too. But, the fact that he is out and actively trying to find a new mate ..... when he has no job - and should be spending the time doing that. He doesn't care that we have no funds coming from him.


Why does my son not see this? I don't want him to see it, but at the same time - I'm tired of making excuses.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Blossom Leigh said:


> Don't believe him when he says he hated you all these years. That is a lie he is attempting to tell him self and told it to you to build it up in his mind, but you and I both know it's a lie. It's the only way he can live with himself.



I know, I know he loved me... and I know it was all a lie, to make himself feel better and try to hurt me. That makes perfect sense what you said, and I've told myself that. 

However - I also think, that's what makes this so confusing. The fact that - if you loved someone like that - you don't do that kind of thing to them. And, you certainly shouldn't be ready to move on into a new relationship so soon, much less before you're even divorced. 

Wow... I'm having a bad day. What really is bad is, I just left therapy.. and I should be doing OK today.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

key word.... eventually...


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Lost40 said:


> I know, I know he loved me... and I know it was all a lie, to make himself feel better and try to hurt me. That makes perfect sense what you said, and I've told myself that.
> 
> However - I also think, that's what makes this so confusing. The fact that - if you loved someone like that - you don't do that kind of thing to them. And, you certainly shouldn't be ready to move on into a new relationship so soon, much less before you're even divorced.
> 
> Wow... I'm having a bad day. What really is bad is, I just left therapy.. and I should be doing OK today.


He is putting his pain above yours... thus trying to hurt you.. he's pressing you down to lift himself up. Don't accept it.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

Lost40 said:


> I had therapy today. I like the guy a lot - but, he told me today - that eventually I need to stop rehashing the same things over and over - b/c I am only keeping myself in this spiral by doing that. I didn't like hearing that. Personally I want to keep rehashing it. It feels good to say it - and get feedback on it. I don't know how I feel about that, so he has now taken me into something he is calling "Cognitive Behavioral Therapy" - and wants me to start doing something called Advanced Thinking. I think he called it, I have to start "tracking" it today. I don't know what that's going to do, but I will try it.
> 
> I bought myself a journal today. I will start journaling my thoughts, stories and fears and encouragements. I hope that helps. I am starting to feel extremely desperate for anything at all - to magically take this away. The things I do help, obviously - as therapist had me go back in thought to September and remind myself where I was even then - to where I am now - but... you know... it's almost more painful now - because, before - I knew he was a lonely man... sprouting around with someone 13 years younger than him, and he had to be very miserable. Now - he is onto someone new - and obviously happy - to put her above his own son... and, that kills me. Well - he did the same thing with the bimbo too... he put her above him too. But, the fact that he is out and actively trying to find a new mate ..... when he has no job - and should be spending the time doing that. He doesn't care that we have no funds coming from him.
> 
> ...


Because he is his father and children tend to see the good in people rather than the bad. All you can do is continue to be there for your son and support and love him. He will figure his father out eventually.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Unfortunately, addictions are hard to get over. Have you tried researching on how people get over an addiction? Some of those tools would help you get over him faster, but the hurt, anger,and resentment is another issue.

If you do not feel comfortable making excuses for him, then simply do not. It is okay to tell a child that you do not know. Also, have him see a child therapist if he is not coping well.

As you are more exposed to your husband's behavior, it will help destroy the feelings at a much faster rate. You need to feel those emotions, and learn to let them go. The anger and resentment is not hurting him, but you. If it helps talking with someone, then you should. Also, meditation can help you analyze your emotions, and thoughts.

He is currently in an obsessive state, so things like a job, son, and responsibilities will take a back seat to the feel-good feelings. It does alter moral, judgement, and makes them impaired. Some of the things he is going through is like being on cocaine. He will be more irrational until it fades, or something snaps him out of it. There is no point focusing on him, and you should be focusing it on yourself instead. Just view him as an incompetent father at the moment, and leave it at that.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

karole said:


> Because he is his father and children tend to see the good in people rather than the bad. All you can do is continue to be there for your son and support and love him. He will figure his father out eventually.



My son asks me to call his Dad, and talk to him and tell him that he should come home. Then he gets upset, and says to me: "But, I'm afraid he will say No". Then he wants to talk a little more about divorce... what does it mean? "It means, we are no longer married" - then that brings up "So you're just boyfriend and girlfriend?" and, I say No... It just means, we are your Mom and Dad and we always will be. Dad and I love you, and we will always share that - but that is the only thing we share.

I don't think he truly understands. It pangs me to know, his Dad won't talk to him about anything - leaving the poor kid to wonder, well maybe he will come home. Of course he hears it from me, but he also knows that I'm not him - and I can't answer for him. I know that is what he thinks.

He does nothing for his son anymore, honestly - nothing. He can't even talk to him. Supposedly in the car rides - son listens to his iPod, the whole way - to/from. Son used to tell me, that he had to listen to Dads - and he didn't like the music. I don't blame him, it's nasty music - I've heard the stuff he listens to. So, I got son an iPod to listen to his own music with headphones. So, now he does that to my understanding. Then ex takes him back to his bachelor pad - where he lives with 4 other roommates and plops him in front of a TV. Occassionally he gets to go to his grandparents house - for a free meal. Ex feeds him things like canned soup, or peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. Son comes home hungry most times, b/c all he was given was a bowl of soup from a can or a pbj sandwich - and he is a growing boy with a healthy appetite. The time he is there, dad doesn't do anything - son says he spends most of the time talking to his "roommates" or texting on his phone.

Yet - my son talks high of his dad. I think its because it was drilled into my head during parenting for divorced families - not to speak ill of the other spouse. Which I don't, and I wouldn't do anyway... but I think I took it too far - and said too much good, instead of just being neutral about it.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

I would be so nervous with my child being left with these roommates. I would not be ok with him being left alone with them.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Mr.Fisty said:


> Unfortunately, addictions are hard to get over. Have you tried researching on how people get over an addiction? Some of those tools would help you get over him faster, but the hurt, anger,and resentment is another issue.
> 
> If you do not feel comfortable making excuses for him, then simply do not. It is okay to tell a child that you do not know. Also, have him see a child therapist if he is not coping well.
> 
> ...


That's a good idea, reading about addictions and meditation. I will look into some of that. Yes - he needs more therapy too I think. He seemed to be handling it so well, and really just going with the flow - but recently, I'm discovering it's because he didn't "understand" what was going on. So - now this is a whole new ballgame. I feel at fault for that, but I know it isn't. I've certainly done my share of talking to him, and trying to make him realize - but his Father isn't - and it leads him to be confused and not sure, b/c he only hears it from me.

I too hoped the nastiness would've helped destroy those feelings, and I think they have - to be honest. I just think, because I'm not 100% - I'm getting agitated, I can be impatient - especially over things like this. Since the nastiness has stopped, I now have to depend on things like looking at him for the man he is... and being disgusted by that.


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## Jane139 (Jan 6, 2015)

Lost40 said:


> Mr Fisty - OK good point, about replying to child related things. That is what I think too... another relationship is going. Which confuses me, as to why he tries to contact me with stupid crap. But - oh well. I guess. I don't like thinking about him in a relationship - at all, but.. there is nothing I can do about it. I can only hope its a terrible one - and that it won't last - but, I'm sure it will - because the man is a swindler and romancer - and he will romance her until the cows come home - and she will be hooked. He won't leave her either, obviously. He told me he hated me all these years and only stayed with me "because". So, obviously he'll stay with whoever. I hope it doesn't last though. Only because, it hurts me deeply to picture him with someone else, so soon after our relationship of 13 years and we share a child together. I don't see how you can truly be "moved on" at this stage (We're still married) to form a relationship that means anything anyway - with someone. Does it mean anything at all - that he is already in a "second" relationship with another woman? Because, I truly truly believe - though no proof of this, that the first one - is gone. Maybe the second one has better luck.
> 
> I swear my son will see stability from me, I won't date until I am fully 100% ready - and until my son is comfortable with the idea.
> 
> ...


All I want is to keep our own stuff, and pay our own bills, lol. Nothing more.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Blossom Leigh said:


> I would be so nervous with my child being left with these roommates. I would not be ok with him being left alone with them.


I definitely am not okay with it. It's one thing, that I am trying to figure out - and its one of the hardest of all. I do believe, I have the ability and attorney to take him away from those surroundings - but - my fear is. What will my son think of me? Will he hold a grudge and hate me, for taking his Dad time away? I can't have that, because in 5-6 years, he's going to be 18 and can do as he pleases... at this point, if he hates me and lashes out at me, for keeping him from his Dad - he could leave me completely and go live with his Dad - and never hear from him again at worst! 

Trust me, my ex and I - as a couple, when we were together - used to talk about this situation going on over there. He (ex) didn't like it either (b/c of the kid one of them has, that is in the picture at times), at least so he told me back then he didn't like it... but now, he's okay putting our child in the same mix? All because of some girl he thought he loved...

Wow................. 

I feel like I can't win, no matter what I do. He has no desire to leave that place... the only time he acts like he does, is when we were in court trying to get some kind of child-support from him - he threw an absolute fit on me - before and after - that I obviously don't care where my son stays, because if I did - I wouldn't be asking for child-support, knowing full well it will take him THAT much longer to find a place, if you take my money. That's what he said to me.

Yet - he left in July... closed out both of our accounts, withdrew the money from them, sold his car that was almost paid off - kept that money, and continued receiving paychecks (for another almost 2 months) that I never saw b/c he had them deposited into a new account. Thousands of dollars we're talking here... and I didn't see a dime of it. Starting in October, I started getting a measly child support check that doesn't even come close to covering our monthly expenses - not even by a quarter. It's because he won't work. He thinks he is tricking the system. If I don't work, I don't pay.

Yet - I'm the one keeping him from moving out of his bachelor pad? What happened to all that money you took out, and received up until Sept. that I didn't see a nickle of? 

You see, talking all this out - shows me how ever-living stupid I was... I thought, giving him space, time, and patience would help me. It didn't, I was just being used.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

What kind of man - leaves his wife and child for another woman - and then not only leaves them - but, takes all the money away - and quits his job - to prevent further income coming in. He even said these words to me ... "Ask your parents for the help, they can afford it - that's what parents do"

Seriously... and I am grieving over this man? It doesn't make sense. 

It's the addiction thing, I'm addicted and no matter how bad that addiction is for you (another example: nicotine) it's hard to quit.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

I'm sorry, I've gone on and on and on... but, I think I'm having a whole new transition yesterday and today. It's like I've reached a new level and I'm trying to figure it out for myself what that is.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

No, it's ok. How old is your son.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

I think I went overboard... lol :smthumbup: I get so frustrated with him and what he's put us through.

My son just turned 13 - and his Dad didn't show up to his birthday.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Once you fully detach from him, what he does, who he is dating, if it works or not, will not matter. It matters now because of your attachment, but it cannot last forever. Also, once the romantic, magical feelings, or the infatuation stage ends with whomever he is with, he will look more and more like a jobless bum to them. That magical stage can last for a couple of months to a few years, but the more stress that is placed upon it, the faster the magic dies. Once you see a lawyer, and go through the divorce process, he will need money to pay for lawyers, his financial obligations towards you and your son has not ended, and he is living in a fantasy world right now.

Do not take what he says to heart. Use cognitive restructuring, by mentally reminding yourself that he is a nonfactor in your self-worth. Keep reminding yourself of those good qualities that you possess. Your teaching your brain to think differently. Eventually you will develop the new neurological pathways. You need to be somewhat selfish and place yourself first once in a while. You have to learn to love yourself.

As for your son, you will probably need the guidance of a therapist to navigate through the separation process. The more he views you as a stable element, the more he will want to be around you. Make sure that he is comfortable expressing his feelings towards you. Let him talk while you listen, and if he asks for help, then you can try and help him.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Lost40 said:


> I think I went overboard... lol :smthumbup: I get so frustrated with him and what he's put us through.
> 
> My son just turned 13 - and his Dad didn't show up to his birthday.


That's not quite as vulnerable as my six year old, but can still be over powered. I don't blame you for your concern at all. I hope something can be done. You definitely have my support to make sure he stays safe.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Blossom... I know, in some regards I'm glad he is older - because at least he is old enough to hopefully soon see the real father he has - and in some regards I wish he were younger - so that I could protect him easier. If he were younger - this definitely wouldn't be as big of an issue - I would've been certain he had zero overnight visits.

I mean there are situations such as this... which kind of warmed my heart when he said it. This weekend he is with Dad, he comes home Sunday night. He is off school on Monday (the other day he is with Dad). So, he said to me. "Since I'm off Monday, do you think Dad will want me to just go ahead and stay over Sunday - so I'm there already for Monday?" I said to him, well thats up to you... If you want to, I'm sure we can arrange that. He said, "No, I want to come home Sunday night, and he can pick me up at regular time on Monday - I will miss you too much if we do it the other way".

Aww.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Trackin' that for sure..


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Thank you, Mr Fisty. That means a lot - your post. It does help, to hear you explain the stages. When will I know I am fully detached? Because I'll stop caring so much? Is the detachment stage, when it's finally over? Or is that just a stage you get to - to move on to the next stage?

I will keep reminding myself - thank you. I am worth the effort! 






Mr.Fisty said:


> Once you fully detach from him, what he does, who he is dating, if it works or not, will not matter. It matters now because of your attachment, but it cannot last forever. Also, once the romantic, magical feelings, or the infatuation stage ends with whomever he is with, he will look more and more like a jobless bum to them. That magical stage can last for a couple of months to a few years, but the more stress that is placed upon it, the faster the magic dies. Once you see a lawyer, and go through the divorce process, he will need money to pay for lawyers, his financial obligations towards you and your son has not ended, and he is living in a fantasy world right now.
> 
> Do not take what he says to heart. Use cognitive restructuring, by mentally reminding yourself that he is a nonfactor in your self-worth. Keep reminding yourself of those good qualities that you possess. Your teaching your brain to think differently. Eventually you will develop the new neurological pathways. You need to be somewhat selfish and place yourself first once in a while. You have to learn to love yourself.
> 
> As for your son, you will probably need the guidance of a therapist to navigate through the separation process. The more he views you as a stable element, the more he will want to be around you. Make sure that he is comfortable expressing his feelings towards you. Let him talk while you listen, and if he asks for help, then you can try and help him.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Blossom Leigh said:


> Trackin' that for sure..


Yes.. he tracks it. It's funny, that wasn't the only time he has done this kind of thing, it's just the most recent - b/c he said it to me yesterday.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Hey  Now I have a word for rejecting the lies about me and holding onto my truth... Cognitive restructuring! Cool! Thanks


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Lost40 said:


> Yes.. he tracks it. It's funny, that wasn't the only time he has done this kind of thing, it's just the most recent - b/c he said it to me yesterday.


Lol... No, sorry . I was saying that I was tracking your thoughts... Aka, totally understood them about your son  Sorry, slipped into slang.


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

Lost40 said:


> Seriously... and I am grieving over this man? It doesn't make sense.
> 
> It's the addiction thing, I'm addicted and no matter how bad that addiction is for you (another example: nicotine) it's hard to quit.


I'll root if you root for me. I hate that I am grieving over this. I don't even want him back. So why am I so sad.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

BlueWoman said:


> I'll root if you root for me. I hate that I am grieving over this. I don't even want him back. So why am I so sad.



I'll root for you! They all say, including my therapist who I've been seeing once a week since the end of July tell me it happens, so obviously it does.... But it sure as heck doesn't seem possible. I just read your story ... It's very similar to mine, separated in July. Divorce filed in September. He also admitted to emotional affair. i will send you a private message tomorrow. I'm heading to bed now. It seems I sleep most the day and night. It's the only time I escape the pain. I used to barely be able to do that, as I'd have nightmares about how I messed up our family. Those don't happen as much anymore.


I know what you mean about people telling you things. Personally I do like being told how to feel bc if they didn't-- I wouldn't feel anything. I'm numb if I'm not reading or listening to advice and putting it into action. 

What I DONT like is when people tell me how many marriages end in divorce. As if I'm supposed to suddenly feel better bc I'm not so unusual. Even my ex told me that, earlier on when I was still trying to reason with him. It was one of his over used lines. Divorce happens, that half of marriages end in divorce blah blah blah! My dad was another who over used it. I know he thought he was helping, and only trying to be supportive, but I hated it! It doesn't help.


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## FormerVictim (Jan 13, 2015)

Lost40 said:


> I think I went overboard... lol :smthumbup: I get so frustrated with him and what he's put us through.
> 
> My son just turned 13 - and his Dad didn't show up to his birthday.


Take a step back.

It's just a day.

If his old man is there the rest of his life, does it matter?


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

Lost40 said:


> What I DONT like is when people tell me how many marriages end in divorce. As if I'm supposed to suddenly feel better bc I'm not so unusual. Even my ex told me that, earlier on when I was still trying to reason with him. It was one of his over used lines. Divorce happens, that half of marriages end in divorce blah blah blah! My dad was another who over used it. I know he thought he was helping, and only trying to be supportive, but I hated it! It doesn't help.



I so get that. It's like a cop out. Like just because everyone else is doing it, it's okay for us. It wasn't okay for me.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Looking for some advice... a different kind this time.

To start with, we are not even close to being finished with final rulings with "support" amounts. I am afraid to even ask for a fair (that is all I want, is fair - I'm not trying to live off him) amount, because he is so verbally nasty anytime in the past - when we set up a temporary support order, and now I'm kind of feeling like - if I ask for anything above the measley amount I am getting now (b/c he is w/o job) that I will ruin any chances at all, of ever reconciling. Am I thinking about this wrong?


My second, and more concerning issue is... He is supposed to be paying me, for 50% of our sons cell phone, and tutoring. In addition to the stupid support check I get. He finally after months of me paying it alone, started paying for tutoring (50% of it), but he found out this past week - that son didn't have tutoring, so he deducted the amount he paid me ($30) from this weeks check. Granted, we're not talking a lot of money here - but I consider this so entirely sleazy of him. For one, I went months of paying this weekly amount on my own, not to mention I've not seen a dime of the cell phone bill. But, the minute he finds out he over paid me a few dollars - he deducts it ASAP?

Should I just let it go, or do I have a right to be furious about that?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Lost40 said:


> Looking for some advice... a different kind this time.
> 
> To start with, we are not even close to being finished with final rulings with "support" amounts. I am afraid to even ask for a fair (that is all I want, is fair - I'm not trying to live off him) amount, because he is so verbally nasty anytime in the past - when we set up a temporary support order, and now I'm kind of feeling like - if I ask for anything above the measley amount I am getting now (b/c he is w/o job) that I will ruin any chances at all, of ever reconciling. Am I thinking about this wrong?
> 
> ...


You dont ASK for a support amount in a divorce. The amount of support he is required to pay is based on income. Period. You dont negotiate it. 

Get him OFF of your cell plan, let him deal with getting and paying for his own service. And as far as the tutoring money, yes you have a right to be angry, but try to remain calm if you confront him about it. And just keep track of what he pays, and when he doesnt pay what he is supposed to.

Oh, and editing to add...dont worry about reconciling. The man is not worth your time.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Darlin' don't let hopes of reconciling make these financial decisions for you. You walk with dignity and kindness, without compromising the truth or what you are due for support according to the law. your dignity alone will speak for itself in reconciliation if it ever comes.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Thank you 3x. 

Actually ex is not on my cell plan.. I kicked him off that right away, but after the divorce - he tells me, son should get a cell phone so that we can talk/text without bothering your phone or some line of crap. So, I agreed and put son on my plan, as ex didn't have one anymore - and he was supposed to pay... he doesn't.

OK... I had a reply all typed out and ready to send to him, but I thought better of it, and erased it. I'm worried if I send anything, even politely - it will start something, and I'm doing a good job right now - keeping with the NC. I'll try something else, maybe your idea - of keeping records is best.

Oh, it was my understanding, that support (cs/alimony) was based off a percentage you agreed to or something. Ugh, I have a lot to learn.

I know... I don't need or deserve a man like that, but my lord... I'm obsessed with it right now.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

You're right... 





Blossom Leigh said:


> Darlin' don't let hopes of reconciling make these financial decisions for you. You walk with dignity and kindness, without compromising the truth or what you are due for support according to the law. your dignity alone will speak for itself in reconciliation if it ever comes.


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

I really have to ditto 3Xnocharm, 

Here's my current premonition. He is going to want to reconcile soon after you get over him. And not a minute before. So considering you won't want him back once he comes back, then you might as well get what's fair. 

And yeah, start documenting what he pays. And what he doesn't. 

At worst it will come in handy, at best, you'll never need it. 

Still rooting for you.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

So you're still willing to kiss his arse on the off chance his highness might want to reconcile? Are you that desperate? You deserve so much better. I'd bet to a large extent you've taught him how to treat you by rolling over. If you continue to have "welcome" written all over you he still continue to use you as a doormat. 

You don't value yourself, and until you do why should he or anyone else? You can do much better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

BlueWoman said:


> I really have to ditto 3Xnocharm,
> 
> Here's my current premonition. He is going to want to reconcile soon after you get over him. And not a minute before. So considering you won't want him back once he comes back, then you might as well get what's fair.
> 
> ...


Thank you! I definitely need it. I am going to start documenting. For those who have done similar things, do you have a good way of keeping track of it - do you use like a certain program, etc.? Keep in mind, before this happened - I wasn't in charge of any kind of finances - he did all of that. So I'm learning.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> So you're still willing to kiss his arse on the off chance his highness might want to reconcile? Are you that desperate? You deserve so much better. I'd bet to a large extent you've taught him how to treat you by rolling over. If you continue to have "welcome" written all over you he still continue to use you as a doormat.
> 
> You don't value yourself, and until you do why should he or anyone else? You can do much better.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Yes, I am desperate... but, I think more in the way of just wanting this grief and pain to stop. I have myself fooled that if he came back, it would go away. Typing it out here, and listening to myself and others comment on my insecurities help me realize how wrong and weak - I am. Thank you for being blunt, I need it sometimes.

I guess I am confused on how to act.. because, I definitely don't want to be a doormat, but when I take the approach of being a witch with a b (and trust me, I went through that period with him, I stopped doing that in Nov.).

In the very beginning I worked with him. Somewhere in the middle, I stopped working with him b/c I realized that didn't help - he was still nasty, so I tried something different (witchiness). I pretty much let him know how horrible he was, basically just let all my frustrations out on him - after I kept it in for so long. If he needed something, it was No. He finally told me, that by telling him No to everything, would only cause him to tell me No when I needed something. What he doesn't realize is, I don't ask for anything (since the first month he left pretty much) outside of what my attorney and his attorney do. But, I thought to my self... "Self, maybe one day you will need him to help you out with something, and if you keep telling him no, he will tell you no".

So, I stopped -now I'm back to agreeing to everything....but, I do so very matter of factly, answer his question with as few as words as possible, and move on. I'm going dark. Ugh.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Well why shouldn't you be a b!tch? That's what people like that understand. Don't get in the way of his relationship with his son of course but otherwise you look out for you. The decency you send to him will not be returned, and he acts like he does because he's used to you being a doormat. You took your first steps toward changing that when you made him choose, though even then the choice to leave shouldn't have been his. You give this guy way too much power that he doesn't need to have..... it's a huge ego boost for him. Demand what's fair and if he doesn't like it he can f$ck off. You've got to learn to play hardball, but it will happen in baby steps. One step at a time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Please someone tell me what I'm supposed to do here. I am going crazy. This is the second time this week, my ex brings son home early - and son walks in, acting confused by it - then he tells me, "Why does dad, shower and put cologne on before he brings me home?" 

I know why. Do I tell him?

I kind of tried to once explain what might be happening, I said "He is probably going out" and he says No!! He isn't!!!

It's like he knows, but won't admit it to himself.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Te'll him you don't know what to tell him. Tell him you don't know what his dads plans but he'll have fun with you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Okay. I do tell him we will have fun - he seems very happy when I say that. He gets excited, and wants to start planning. Which, I do plan certain things that I know I can follow through on.

Do you think that his Dad needs to talk to him? His dad never does, he leaves son in the dark - on what he is doing, thinking, etc. I know this is why son asks me over and over, because he's only getting it from me - so it's like the poor kid doesn't have closure to grieve properly.

I think I need to ask ex, to talk to him and let him discuss the divorce with him. Don't you?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Lost40 said:


> Okay. I do tell him we will have fun - he seems very happy when I say that. He gets excited, and wants to start planning. Which, I do plan certain things that I know I can follow through on.
> 
> Do you think that his Dad needs to talk to him? His dad never does, he leaves son in the dark - on what he is doing, thinking, etc. I know this is why son asks me over and over, because he's only getting it from me - so it's like the poor kid doesn't have closure to grieve properly.
> 
> I think I need to ask ex, to talk to him and let him discuss the divorce with him. Don't you?


Why arent YOU discussing it with him? Ex is likely to skew things and lie.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Your ex's relationship with his son is not your concern, provided you're not interfering and your son is not in danger with him. If you think he is then take that up with the court, otherwise it's out of your hands. Besides, it will be viewed as you trying to keep ex in your life.....kids are often used in this manner. Your ex is a grown man and will develop his own relationship with your son, be as accommodating with him as you want. Don't bend over backwards though, that's more of you teaching him how to treat you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Oh, I do discuss it with son. I am always ready to listen and help. I think what the problem has become though, he doesn't hear it from his Dad, and therefore he is confused and doesn't know where his dad is coming from - or what his dad is thinking. Son tells me, "Dad doesn't talk to me about it, and I'm afraid to ask him".

So, I felt like I should tell the ex - that he needs to be a little more open to son, and ask him if he wants to talk.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Lost40 said:


> Oh, I do discuss it with son. I am always ready to listen and help. I think what the problem has become though, he doesn't hear it from his Dad, and therefore he is confused and doesn't know where his dad is coming from - or what his dad is thinking. Son tells me, "Dad doesn't talk to me about it, and I'm afraid to ask him".
> 
> So, I felt like I should tell the ex - that he needs to be a little more open to son, and ask him if he wants to talk.


Ok, I gotcha. I would suggest that you only mention it if ex starts talking about something going on with your son. Otherwise, you are doing YOUR part, and like Life mentioned above, their relationship isnt your problem.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

You're right... I just feel sorry for my kid, and feel like he deserves his dads attention on this, especially when he comes to me so confused and hurt - but I suppose I need to stay out of it.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Yes, I know it is hard not to interfere with another relationship. The truth is, you cannot always fix everything, and the best you can do is simply cope with the situation. Perhaps you can take your son to a therapist. He needs to learn to cope with the changes in his life. He has to learn that people will sometimes let you down, do the wrong thing, and you have to learn to accept the flaws in people. Also he should see a therapist because his father, one of his role models, is not living up to expectations.

Once he learns to cope and adapt, he then can see his father in a more realistic light. As bad as it sounds, he needs a level of detachment from his father. His father is a source of suffering in his life. Again, you cannot protect him from his father's flaws and shortcomings nor should you try. Just be the best stable parent in his life, and offer him the stability that he requires.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

So, my son comes home from school today - letting me know, that he forgot to tell me what happened at Grandma's last night. So, I said Okay - what happened?

He says "Grandma told me, I needed to come live with her for awhile". Then he said "I told her no" and she badgered him as to "Why not".

My son tells me all this because he doesn't want to go over there anymore, he's told me that more than once b/c he says "Grandma is trying to be my Mom or something" -- I don't really know what this means, as I try not to sit there and interrogate him with questions... so I can only pick up the pieces he shares with me, and try to put them together.


This really infuriates me... and I feel like there is absolutely nothing I can do whatsoever to stop this. There has to be something I can do. She is trying to come between my son and I, and I don't think I can handle it anymore.


He just left with his dad for the weekend, I am absolutely heart broken, when he got in the car I broke down and started crying. I hate to see him go.. Especially when his parting words are "I'm getting tired of this... "

God bless, kids don't deserve this.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Remind me how old your son is?


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

He is 13


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Document all of it and get legal advice. Now.

13 might be too old to enforce visitation if he doesn't want to go but see a lawyer about this. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> Document all of it and get legal advice. Now.
> 
> 13 might be too old to enforce visitation if he doesn't want to go bUT see a lawyer about this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, THIS! That is why I asked his age. If he is fed up, then he gets a say, and wont be forced to go where he doesnt want to be.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Okay super, thank you. I was wondering that, because I knew he was old enough to be able to express his opinion and be taken seriously at least he should be.

I'll contact my attorney Monday. I already have my email written in my head, so I'll send it off first thing.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

This has become my safe haven to come vent and complain. Thank you for listening.

As far as my "missing" the ex... this is starting to turn more into anger and disgust at him. I hope it lasts, only been a few days of this. 

Well, my weekend report (since unfortunatly son was with him) is this.. Son texts me this morning. Says to me... "Dad talked to me about the divorce today. Dad say life changes, and he met "girls name" (the one he left me for), and they wanted to be boyfriend and girlfriend, and that its okay -that is what life is all about. Divorce happens to everyone. It will happen to me too"

Okay... now, I'm sure things were somewhat confused, and this is how he interperted it. But - regardless, this is what my son now thinks... I don't want my son thinking, that Divorce happens to everyone, and you just get married and find new girlfriends to leave your wife for!!!!!! WTH? What kind of values is he teaching him for gods sake??

We are a very strong catholic family (at least were) and NO! That is not what the church teaches at ALL.


By the way... son was supposed to be home an hour ago... still not here. No call, nothing. I asked where he was, and he's ignoring me.

Yes - I know I said I wanted X to talk to son, but I didn't tell him that yet - so, I can't be to blame for these comments for one, and for two - it was done so poorly!

Calling child therapist tomorrow morning, ASAP.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

I find it sad, that my son spends more than 50% of his time texting me while he is with his Dad. Problem is, his dad has told him "it's not fair" that I don't see you more often. So, I'm quite positive son won't admit that he wants to stop going over there - because he is a loving caring child, and he is easily manipulated by his father (as was done this weekend) and therefore he won't be open and honest about what he wants b/c he's afraid of making dad mad... when its' clear he wants to be here with me.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

You will have to be the counter force to your husband. You will have to teach him about empathy, strong boundaries, commitment, respect for self and others, listening and communication skills. You can talk to your son and let him come to his own logical conclusions. I would save that text also. When it comes to awarding child custody, things like that will be important.

Unfortunately children are sponges, and they will pick up their values from their parents and the people around them. You have to teach your son logic in this case. Logic can sometimes overcome bad reasoning. Ask him if he was the one that his wife left him for another boyfriend, how would that make him feel. Don't answer, and let him be the one to think about it. Things that he comes to on his own will stick better to him.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Mr.Fisty said:


> You will have to be the counter force to your husband. You will have to teach him about empathy, strong boundaries, commitment, respect for self and others, listening and communication skills.
> 
> You can talk to your son and let him come to his own logical conclusions.
> 
> Things that he comes to on his own will stick better to him.


Thank you, this is good advice, I think he will appreciate me for it too. Giving him his own decision making skills, where as it seems his dad is putting things in his head like "It's not fair if you don't do it my way".

When he came home, he told me a little more... He said, he told Dad he wished he would come home, he really wants him too. Which is what he's been telling me, but afraid to tell him - so I knew it was going to be said sooner or later. 

His fathers reply: "Thank you - I appreciate that. If I come home, mom and I will just fight though".

So, now my son is focusing on this "IF" word. Why can't he just come out and say, I'm sorry son... I'm not.

IMO, it sounds like he wants to leave that door open as a possibility, and frankly - I'm afraid of what this means... b/c I know I am vulnerable enough to cave at this point. I am pretty confident I'm not interested in him anymore - he has really hurt me, and I know I deserve better - but I've got that pain still... and if he comes crawling, I'm going to be weak.

As I mentioned, X and I have been going NC - and when we do talk, its friendly/civil. It seemed he had been texting a little more recently, asking non-important things. Well - he has gone back to ignoring and being standoffish. Son was an hour late coming home last night, and I had texted him within that period of time - b/c I was growing concerned (as a mom does) and he is never usually late without being notified. So - I felt something was wrong. He ignored both requests and he knows I am a worrier... So, I am angry he is back at this stage and I don't know why. He is so moody. He always has been.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Lost40 said:


> Well, my weekend report (since unfortunatly son was with him) is this.. Son texts me this morning. Says to me... "Dad talked to me about the divorce today. Dad say life changes, and he met "girls name" (the one he left me for), and they wanted to be boyfriend and girlfriend, and that its okay -that is what life is all about. Divorce happens to everyone. It will happen to me too"
> 
> Okay... now, I'm sure things were somewhat confused, and this is how he interperted it. But - regardless, this is what my son now thinks... I don't want my son thinking, that Divorce happens to everyone, and you just get married and find new girlfriends to leave your wife for!!!!!! WTH? What kind of values is he teaching him for gods sake??
> 
> We are a very strong catholic family (at least were) and NO! That is not what the church teaches at ALL.


Omg, this is just SICK. I hope you explained to your son that this is WRONG. Who in the WORLD THINKS like this?? This just absolutely turns my stomach!


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

3Xnocharm said:


> Omg, this is just SICK. I hope you explained to your son that this is WRONG. Who in the WORLD THINKS like this?? This just absolutely turns my stomach!


Yours and mine both, when he started texting me that - I started crying and yelling "WTH!!!". I was so mad. 

I don't know if the words came out exactly like they did to me over text - but obviously similar enough, for him to repeat it. He isn't the type to think like that on his own.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Lost40 said:


> Thank you, this is good advice, I think he will appreciate me for it too. Giving him his own decision making skills, where as it seems his dad is putting things in his head like "It's not fair if you don't do it my way".
> 
> When he came home, he told me a little more... He said, he told Dad he wished he would come home, he really wants him too. Which is what he's been telling me, but afraid to tell him - so I knew it was going to be said sooner or later.
> 
> ...



Sounds like he is playing cat and mouse. When you do not answer his crap, he punishes you for it. He is passive-aggressive from the sound of it. He will act cordial to you,put a smile on, and at the same time punish you for sleights against him. He is trying to control and manipulate you, so be careful. The world revolves around him.

You need to talk to a therapist to help you to deal with your husband. Love is great at helping us put our blinders on, and you have to learn to see him as he is, and accept him as you will see him as. 

In order for you to start to detach and become stronger, you need to respect yourself first. You have to learn to love you, and place yourself as a priority. It is okay to be selfish at times. You do have good qualities, and it is time you learn to cherish yourself.


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## dirio-girl (Aug 25, 2014)

Hey Lost,
I've been reading your topic but never have time to post a reply.
I once replied here telling that we're on the same stage, my ex left six months ago and I'm on my way to recover.
Some things you write here seem that were taken from my own thoughts. That's why I follow your topic.

The biggest difference is that your son is 13 while my daughter just completed 1. So I think you had time to live as a family, but I didn't. Us 3 lived very well as a family only for 5 months. So, now it's been more time as a broken family than as a happy one. Your ex knows what is to be a father, I guess, while mine doesn't. My ex believes (or tries to believe) that he can do his best for his child not living with her, which I disagree. Yesterday she had a fever, so I didn't quite sleep because I just didn't know what to do if the fever got worse. Thanks God she was OK. It seems that nobody knows what I'm going through.

As you, I'm always upset about his reactions, his lack of reactions, his text messages, phone calls. I know that I need to let it all go and sometimes I can, but other times it's very hard. So, I know how you feel.

My ex is with the woman he left me for. I don't know anything about their relationship, though. Sometimes I see her (the b*tch works in the same building as I do) and honestly, I don't know what he saw on her. Really. One good thing about the breakup, maybe the only one I can see now, is that I lost a lot of weight. When I'm not depressed and thinking that nobody will ever love me again, I like what I see in the mirror - more than before the breakup. OW, on the other hand... is more to fat, has a bad skin (that she covers all up with heavy makeup) and kinda ugly face.
I never saw them together and I don't know if he introduced her to his friends. At least he didn't assume her publicly.
So my imagination goes far... I think that she must be crazy about this situation. She doesn't have anything that prevents her to have a full relationship. But she has to play his game and act as a mistress. To think about the complete failure of this relationship makes me happy.

I'd like to know if my ex will ever want to come back. I know that this is what prevents me to move on, but I can't control it. I can't see a future together anymore, he crossed the last boundaries of respect with me, but I really want him to beg, just to have the pleasure to say "no".

But if I were to guess which ex would want to come back, mine or yours, I'd say yours. My ex did all that he did with the support of his shrink - believe it or not. He's on therapy for some years and when he decided to leave, it was suddenly, but at the same time, he had time to prepare himself and after leaving he also could work in those issues, so I'm not sure he will want to come back.

I think we (you and me) can walk together. Maybe you're the only one I "know" that is been through the same things I am now.

Again, sorry for my English. Is my second language. :banghead:


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Hi Dirio,
I'm sorry you are still struggling - I am too, so I know what its like. It's terrible. Please feel free to PM me anything you'd like or if you want to vent and talk. Your english sounds fine! 

I feel bad that a therapist actually "supported" your exhusband into leaving his wife with a new baby at home - what a rotten thing to do.


Hi MrF - I agree with you, I think he takes after his mother, and he is extremely passive aggressive, and manipulative. I will talk to my therapist tomorrow - I think he is just letting me do too much talking, and not enough advising. I need some work on building myself to recognize this, and know how to handle the situation when it arises. Thanks for your post, they are great!


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Well I have a story to share. I'll tell you what happened.

I get a text from exh - "I need x, y, z from the house - can you get it - and give it to me when I get there, I'll be there in 1 hour". I wanted to ignore him, and not give it to him - because, when I asked for something - he ignored me, and still has yet to respond. BUT - I am better than that. Plus, he needed it for court today, something he is doing - and I didn't want to get in trouble by whoever?, by not allowing him to get his stuff. So - of course, again - I give to his demands - without him ever giving to mine. But, I wasn't about to let him in the house to get it, so I told him to explain in detail what he was looking for - and Id find it and put it on the front porch for him.

So he did. But at this time, I have 30 minutes to find what he's looking for, in a mess. It was like finding a needle in a haystack. I was in tears, going through all this mess (he left behind, and won't come get) - b/c I knew I was running out of time and couldn't find it. So, I texted him back. I need more time, I can't find it. Can you get it later or tomorrow morning before your thing? He said No - I need it tonight. I didn't say this, but first of all - it's really rude that he can't give me more notice - he's known he's needed this stuff for a long time, I knew about this court date for 3 weeks - just didn't know he needed things from here! So, I'm really upset about that part, giving me less than 1 hour to get it for him.I found what I thought was the right things - and set them out for him. 

Well - of course, they weren't the right things - so now, he had to come IN the house and get them. So, I had to see him last night. I handled it well, I was very neutral if not a little bit friendly. He found it, fairly quickly - and left. No, thank you - nothing. He could've at least said Thanks for helping. 

I will say though, I decided to stare him in the face when he was looking for his stuff - it was like, I was looking, but almost didn't recognize the man I thought I knew. And, I almost felt like - the attraction was going away. I didn't see the same face, I thought I remembered. Does that make sense? 

He looked bad... he's lost a lot of weight (which I knew and he wasn't heavy to begin with), but now it's like his face is sunken in and droopy/sagging almost. He looks like he has aged 5 years. Very distant, and almost depressed look to him. He definitely doesn't look happy. When he lived here, he looked happy. He was young, vibrant - no sunken, droopy face or tired look. That isn't him now. So, it felt good to see that last night.

BUT... my problem now is... I'm almost feeling sorry for him. Why? It took everything I had today, to not text him and tell him to come over and have a good meal, and if he needed anything to let me know. I know from what my son tells me, they eat out of a box (mac n cheese) or a can (soup) when son is there. 

Wow. I am shocked at my feelings over this. After everything he did to me, and all that - I feel sorry for HIM? There was no sadness when he left. Had this happened a month or so ago, I would've cried. There was nothing like that. Just a sense of relief to see him looking so terrible. But now I feel bad for thinking that. I really do, and it's not because I want him back - I almost can say, I truly don't. It's just - I don't know. The mother in me, wanting to take care of him - b/c he looks ill?


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Totally normal reaction as compassionate as you are. Just transfer that care to yourself, your child and distract yourself until it dissipates.


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## FrustratedFL (May 18, 2011)

Lost - very normal reaction but I would not invite him over for a meal. The depressed look is guilt and self esteem issues. I dealt with the same with my ex. 

Although he feels bad, abnormal or whatever, he still is disrespectful to you. Lack of picking up items and demanding things in a 30 min interval speaks volumes. 

My ex was/is the same. He ignored all requests to come by but completely barked at me when needing something. Texting and/or calling 3 - 5 times. Like my time and requests were not important.

I would stick to your no contact plan. Disappointment awaits if you try to intervene with him at this point.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Thank you for taking the time to reply. 

I am back to feeling lost and hurt again. How short lived that moment of "I think I'm turning the page" was. I honestly feel like if I don't stop this behavior right now, that I give up. I'm not one to give up, I cant think of anything in my life I've ever given up on, if something was hard to do - seemed, I put all the more effort into getting it done. This one, isn't working. And, I think it's because - when things got tough in my life before - I had my EX. I could always go to him for help, or a boost. He isn't there anymore - he is the one I'm missing in this new picture.

I went to my therapist today... I think he is the one who set me back, and I'm not sure if it was done on purpose or accident. His face showed, "Oh crap" - but, at the same time - I doubt he didn't know what he was saying/doing. He is just a counselor, so maybe he doesn't really know what to do anymore - is what I'm thinking. Maybe I need a psychologist, are they more trained in helping? 

He said to me... "He's obviously dating a second woman now, he's moved on - he has detached himself from you, and has no interest in coming back" (First of all, how does he know this. He doesn't know my EX - other than what I've told him, and IMO - you can't sit there and say, someone has no interest in coming back - can you? How can anyone read the future?)

So, when he said that - I just sat there for a minute, and tried to nod in agreement, but there was no stopping the tears... lord knows I tried, I almost got up and walked out of the room to compose myself. I couldn't even talk, I was so upset. He said "Oh, no ... You're still fantasizing about him coming back - aren't you?" and I said "I guess so" it's all I could say. When I managed to stop myself, I said - I don't know whats wrong with me, last night I was feeling great - because I accomplished something that I wouldn't of been able to do even a month or two ago, and even looked at him with a sense of pity as if he were a stranger in my home - and now this - not even 24 hours later?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Lost40 said:


> He said to me... "He's obviously dating a second woman now, he's moved on - he has detached himself from you, and has no interest in coming back" (First of all, how does he know this. He doesn't know my EX - other than what I've told him, and IMO - you can't sit there and say, someone has no interest in coming back - can you? How can anyone read the future?)


He knows this because often times, someone from outside of your situation can see things that you cant, or refuse to. 



Lost40 said:


> So, when he said that - I just sat there for a minute, and tried to nod in agreement, but there was no stopping the tears... lord knows I tried, I almost got up and walked out of the room to compose myself. I couldn't even talk, I was so upset. He said "Oh, no ... You're still fantasizing about him coming back - aren't you?" and I said "I guess so" it's all I could say. When I managed to stop myself, I said - I don't know whats wrong with me, last night I was feeling great - because I accomplished something that I wouldn't of been able to do even a month or two ago, and even looked at him with a sense of pity as if he were a stranger in my home - and now this - not even 24 hours later?


It isnt a setback. Your days, and your emotions, will be up and down. You are upset because your counselor forced you to face something you didnt want to. 

Your STBX isnt worth having. He isnt worth the energy and time you are giving him in your mind. The sooner you can get yourself focused on those fact, the faster your healing will be. Easier said than done, I know firsthand, but its so true.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You needed to hear what the therapist said. The truth often hurts -- no doubt about that -- but it's better to focus on reality and what your therapist said is absolutely reality right now. Could it change? Anything's possible. Is it likely? No. 

You asked why you can't get over him? Because you still have the fantasy he'll wake up and come back. You are holding onto that and you need to let it go or you will drive yourself crazy.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

3x and Open, I had a feeling someone would tell me that - b/c I almost know that is what happened - "forcing me to face something I refuse to do on my own" -- I had a feeling that is what caused the anger and hurt when he said that to me - b/c I was being made to listen to it, said - very matter of fact like.

I just don't know why I keep holding out hope - that maybe, just maybe he will come crawling back at some point... To be honest, I don't know if its because I want him back, or because I want the satisfaction of seeing it. Maybe a little bit of both?

I just don't understand. We went through a hardship about 3 years ago, it was job/money related - he was unemployed (I see a pattern now, then I didn't) for 19 months at his own doing. He went into a depression, and basically refused to look for work. After about a 12-15 months of this, we ran out of money - our retirement account was drained, all our savings - everything was gone - wiped out. We were facing bankruptcy. 

I sold/pawned most of my jewelry, things that had been passed down to me, I sold a diamond bracelet he gave me the first christmas after we were engaged. We were about to sell our wedding bands. I started doing some work for my mom around her house to make extra money, anything I could do to help. Of course none of this money lasted more than a couple months at most - with all of our bills. So, the next thing he asked I do, is ask my parents for money. So, I did. I asked him if he would ask his parents, and it was always "No, they don't have it" - and I agreed, and said OK - I'll ask mine. My parents were extremely kind and generous, giving us help. 

I never once made him feel incompetent, or lazy. I supported him until the cows came home. I defended him, I lied for him and made up stories that Yes of course he's out looking for a job, when I knew he wasn't. I did this because, had I not - EX told me, they would stop helping, and if they stopped helping - we would be in trouble. So, I lied for him. He knew I did, he'd stand there and listen to me, or sometimes instruct me on what to say. 

*I have since apologized for this, to get it off my chest -- they tell me, they knew... they could see through him all along, but didn't want to say anything to me - b/c they knew how much I loved him, that I'd just deny their opinions*

Well, you have no idea - how much he tried to tell me, that I didn't deserve this, that he would never again put me in this position - he swore to me, he wouldn't. He said, you've shown unbelievable devotion and love, that I didn't even think was possible for another human being to show in a situation like this - you've stood by me through this, and dealt with me and my depression. So, he would promise me, and swear to me that I would be very happy one day, and that I'd never again have to live in fear.

And I can tell you, its a hard pill to swallow - remembering those words, and sitting here in this position today - scared and alone. When he was at his lowest point in life, I was there. And, he has forced me into mine at his own doing.

What did I miss? What happened? I honestly go through my heart and mind, with a fine tooth comb looking for anything that I might've done, that caused this - and I just can't. I wasn't perfect - I admit that, I had some flaws and certainly could've done more at times... but, I've never heard them given as an excuse.

I honestly don't think I'm being blind. In fact, when I ask him what did I do wrong? I never got an answer. Which tells a lot.

I take that back... the only things he really uses against me is after I knew about the definite EA (if not more) that I was a jealous and only trying to control him. The woman I married and fell in love with, wouldn't care who I was friends with - and the fact that you do, says a lot about who you've become and I don't want anything to do with it.

But IMO, that is pretty drastic, isn't it? How can you go from everything is great, everything is love - to I hate you, no MC, no nothing - I just want a divorce. All because of my not wanting him to be so close with another woman??


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You trusted him. And he didn't deserve it. Never forget that. Every time you fantasize about having him come back just think about what he did. That's how I got through my divorce. I knew I would be very foolish to trust my now-ex husband again. And so would you.


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## dirio-girl (Aug 25, 2014)

Hey Lost,

I think you'll have some days like that. It's a rollercoaster. I feel the same here. I remember a time when I was so well that I thought I had already moved on. But then suddenly all those feelings came back.

I already felt sorry for my x too. As your x, mine doesn't show a happy face anymore. His smile, open, beautiful, that made me fall in love, is gone. I can see exactly that smile in my daughter and it has already made me cry. I remember one day, he decided to take the baby to the park and I saw them on the street. I can't explain, but that scene was so sad, he seemed so lonely, so lost. And I couldn't imagine how could I feel pity for someone who did what he did to me and to our baby?

I read somewhere here at TAM that we have a limited capacity to have ties with the things we love (people, activities etc), so the more we strenghten the ties with our family, friends and hobbies we love, the faster we move on, because we sort of occupy the place that belonged to the x.


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## FrustratedFL (May 18, 2011)

Lost40 said:


> I just don't know why I keep holding out hope - that maybe, just maybe he will come crawling back at some point... To be honest, I don't know if its because I want him back, or because I want the satisfaction of seeing it. Maybe a little bit of both?
> 
> - *Both - no one likes to be dumped. Also you remember the man from the early years and miss him. Sadly that person is gone and truly changed into a selfish, cheating coward. Harsh I know but true! *
> 
> ...


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## dirio-girl (Aug 25, 2014)

My x also had some times of depression. I was the one by his side. The worst of them happened when I was pregnant, and I remember him at work, hiding in the toilet to cry because he was afraid of everything. Afraid of dying. And there I was by his side, carrying my baby, to hold his hand and tell him everything would be ok...

I'm curious about one thing. Tell me, your x used to take antidepressants? I'm asking because I read somewhere about changing of mood caused by some specific antidepressants. 
Also, it seems that people who have bipolar disorder should never take antidepressants, and the danger is that sometimes the level of the bipolarity is so low that the person only feels that something's wrong when in the down stages, and ends up taking antidepressants when he should never do it.

When x left home, I thought he was bipolar, because of the changing in his behavior, just after our baby was born. And I thought that the medicine he has taken has contributed to the euphoria stage that led him to leave home. I could be wrong, and probably I was, but the fact is that I don't trust antidepressants.

Anyway, my x took escitalopram (lexapro).



Lost40 said:


> 3x and Open, I had a feeling someone would tell me that - b/c I almost know that is what happened - "forcing me to face something I refuse to do on my own" -- I had a feeling that is what caused the anger and hurt when he said that to me - b/c I was being made to listen to it, said - very matter of fact like.
> 
> I just don't know why I keep holding out hope - that maybe, just maybe he will come crawling back at some point... To be honest, I don't know if its because I want him back, or because I want the satisfaction of seeing it. Maybe a little bit of both?
> 
> ...


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Thank you all for caring and helping me. It means a lot. I feel so alone in real life right now, my parents are gone for the winter and won't be back until April/May - and I just feel like I'm all alone now. So it's nice to know you all are here. 

Listening to my posts, does it remind you of some of the same things you went through and thought --- Life is over, I'll never be happy again, I give up - there is obviously no hope? Did you all feel like that at one time or another, and did you prove yourself wrong?

My mom or dad, or a friend even - will tell me, you have no idea - you deserve so much better, and you'll eventually find it - when the time is right. Did you all say to yourself, when that kind of thing was said - "Not me... I don't want to be with anyone again, if it's not him - I don't want anyone"? And then prove yourself wrong?

Tell me this, is it too late for me to do the 180? I know they say its mostly done for your benefit - but, obviously my hope is, it helps in getting him to try and come home. Is it too late for that, at this point? If it is - I'd like one more chance at calling him, and asking him what his thoughts are. I want to know 2 things.

1. Why won't you come get your stuff, or at the very least - box it up and take it out to the barn or second garage - so I don't have to look at it. Is the reason you won't, because you are still undecided on what YOU are wanting to do.

2. Why do you tell our son "IF" I come back mom and I will fight.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Dirio, No - he didn't take anything. I think he needed something though. Most of his family takes antidepressant medicine, and the ones who don't - need to - with the exception of a few. 

I don't think they have bi-polar though, from what I know about bipolar which isn't much, it's not that. I think just general depression. 

My parents says he is a narcissist and has always thought so, but never said anything until now of course. I have looked it up since they've mentioned it, and I guess I see that.

Here is an article I read that sounded very close to home for me and may help someone else who is reading my story feeling they are in the same position as I, it's about highly sensitive people (hsp's) and narcissists. 

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...ship-between-sensitive-people-and-narcissists


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

I PMed you some of my background. It will show you how a person in his mid-twenties grew up before his time. I felt that way when I was a child, younger than your son at this time. Needless to say, my first suicide attempt was at age 10. After you read my partial story, you might understand why.

Life is one series of moments, and unfortunately, your at a bad moment in your life. Emotions and feelings are things that define us at the moment. Learning to detach and take a step back is crucial. You were happy before him, and you can learn to be happy after him. This marriage does not define you, and who you are. Yes, it was a big part of your life, but you can change that, and make yourself more of a priority. So take a step back, and view everything carefully. You can learn and improve as a person from this. Learning and growing, makes us stronger as people. I am sure that you feel yourself changing as an individual. When you feel comfortable, seek new friends, find some others that went through what you went through. Sometimes, someone elses story might help put things more into prospective.


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## FrustratedFL (May 18, 2011)

Lost40 said:


> Tell me this, is it too late for me to do the 180? I know they say its mostly done for your benefit - but, obviously my hope is, it helps in getting him to try and come home. Is it too late for that, at this point? If it is - I'd like one more chance at calling him, and asking him what his thoughts are. I want to know 2 things.
> 
> 1. Why won't you come get your stuff, or at the very least - box it up and take it out to the barn or second garage - so I don't have to look at it. Is the reason you won't, because you are still undecided on what YOU are wanting to do.
> 
> 2. Why do you tell our son "IF" I come back mom and I will fight.



Since this happened to me with some of the same scenarios I feel that I can be honest with you and tell you that your marriage is over. The marriage that you knew is gone. The 180 will be good for you to setup more boundaries but I truly believe that you need to start to live your life knowing he will not be back. Believe me, I do not say this to hurt you but to I say I spent a year waiting for my ex to decide what to do which I can not get back. In the end, I wish I would have moved forward quicker and not delayed any future plans. 

He won't come get his stuff due to guilt, indecision or just pure laziness. Mine did the same thing until I sold most of his stuff in garage sale and moved the rest. The items in the home are keeping you from moving forward. Get rid of them - Give him a deadline to pick them up or donate them. 

You are doing very well and keeping your son grounded while your world has fallen apart. Keep busy, and post often.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Hon, "the woman he married" was his doormat. She lied and covered for him so nobody would know what a pos he really was and was all set sign over her family's business to keep said pos. That doormat would've let him have his wh0re just so she could have the privilege of pos in her life. Is that really who you want to be? 

But one day said door mat got up and stood up for herself. Told him he could have his family or his wh0re..... he wasn't used to her standing up for herself and called her bluff, figuring she'd fold like the doormat she'd always been. But she didn't, and then he found out that his h0 doesn't cook for him or take care of him, and h0 is probably figuring out he's not that great. When he had your business and she could advance her career he had some appeal but now he's worthless to her. And his doormat has stopped begging him to come back. If you find another man he'll lose his mind, not because he cares about you that much but because that will mean the gravy train is gone. 

Are you sure you want this back? He doesn't think that highly of you, but he could use you for a lot. He'll control everything so he won't lose his gravy train again. Why would you fantasize about getting a pos back? Look what he did to his life for a "friend".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

If you are considering the 180 as a way to get him back, that's the wrong thinking. You need to be doing the 180 just for you. It really does work. Detachment is the key. 

Getting over someone takes time. And you have to work at it. You are still spending energy trying to figure out how to get him back. Why wouldn't you feel you deserve someone better? A narcissist thinks only of himself. Why wouldn't you want someone who thinks of you?

You need to focus on you and not on him.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Wow, you STILL havent boxed up his sh!t yet?? Get to it! It is bringing you down having to look at it, giving you false hope, and keeping you from moving forward! Its just STUFF! Box it up, put it away, out of sight...better yet, have it all moved out into storage, and send him the key and the bill. 

You REALLY need to read this post again, that YOU wrote! This man is a worthless piece of sh!t, and you are SO MUCH better off without him! What if you read this, and it was someone else describing their life? What would you tell her?? 

Better yet, let me share this....My last husband divorce me to get back with his first wife, who he had been having at LEAST an EA with almost the entire short time we were married. He moved her back in within two weeks of me moving out. He remarried her withing three months! Whenever things went south with them, (as in, she went to screwing her boyfriend and shoving coke up her nose) he would turn to me, telling me that he wanted back, and I would embrace him back into my life, so grateful that he was giving me another chance! THEN, something happens with her again and BAM! Back he goes to her! This happened no less than THREE TIMES! Every single time, he chose HER over ME. Here I was, pining away over a man who lied, cheated, manipulated and hurt me over and over and over. CAN YOU SEE THE INSANITY IN WHAT I WAS DOING?? I was demeaning myself. I am humiliated that I allowed myself to be in that situation. I didnt deserve that. And I know that if I let him back into my life, the same thing would keep happening over and over again. This is WHO HE IS. He is a cunning manipulator. 

Here is your post again. READ IT, really READ IT. You did nothing wrong to him in your marriage... this is about WHO HE IS, which is a narcissistic, worthless piece of sh!t. 

*"3x and Open, I had a feeling someone would tell me that - b/c I almost know that is what happened - "forcing me to face something I refuse to do on my own" -- I had a feeling that is what caused the anger and hurt when he said that to me - b/c I was being made to listen to it, said - very matter of fact like.

I just don't know why I keep holding out hope - that maybe, just maybe he will come crawling back at some point... To be honest, I don't know if its because I want him back, or because I want the satisfaction of seeing it. Maybe a little bit of both?

I just don't understand. We went through a hardship about 3 years ago, it was job/money related - he was unemployed (I see a pattern now, then I didn't) for 19 months at his own doing. He went into a depression, and basically refused to look for work. After about a 12-15 months of this, we ran out of money - our retirement account was drained, all our savings - everything was gone - wiped out. We were facing bankruptcy.

I sold/pawned most of my jewelry, things that had been passed down to me, I sold a diamond bracelet he gave me the first christmas after we were engaged. We were about to sell our wedding bands. I started doing some work for my mom around her house to make extra money, anything I could do to help. Of course none of this money lasted more than a couple months at most - with all of our bills. So, the next thing he asked I do, is ask my parents for money. So, I did. I asked him if he would ask his parents, and it was always "No, they don't have it" - and I agreed, and said OK - I'll ask mine. My parents were extremely kind and generous, giving us help.

I never once made him feel incompetent, or lazy. I supported him until the cows came home. I defended him, I lied for him and made up stories that Yes of course he's out looking for a job, when I knew he wasn't. I did this because, had I not - EX told me, they would stop helping, and if they stopped helping - we would be in trouble. So, I lied for him. He knew I did, he'd stand there and listen to me, or sometimes instruct me on what to say.

*I have since apologized for this, to get it off my chest -- they tell me, they knew... they could see through him all along, but didn't want to say anything to me - b/c they knew how much I loved him, that I'd just deny their opinions*

Well, you have no idea - how much he tried to tell me, that I didn't deserve this, that he would never again put me in this position - he swore to me, he wouldn't. He said, you've shown unbelievable devotion and love, that I didn't even think was possible for another human being to show in a situation like this - you've stood by me through this, and dealt with me and my depression. So, he would promise me, and swear to me that I would be very happy one day, and that I'd never again have to live in fear.

And I can tell you, its a hard pill to swallow - remembering those words, and sitting here in this position today - scared and alone. When he was at his lowest point in life, I was there. And, he has forced me into mine at his own doing.

What did I miss? What happened? I honestly go through my heart and mind, with a fine tooth comb looking for anything that I might've done, that caused this - and I just can't. I wasn't perfect - I admit that, I had some flaws and certainly could've done more at times... but, I've never heard them given as an excuse.

I honestly don't think I'm being blind. In fact, when I ask him what did I do wrong? I never got an answer. Which tells a lot.

I take that back... the only things he really uses against me is after I knew about the definite EA (if not more) that I was a jealous and only trying to control him. The woman I married and fell in love with, wouldn't care who I was friends with - and the fact that you do, says a lot about who you've become and I don't want anything to do with it.

But IMO, that is pretty drastic, isn't it? How can you go from everything is great, everything is love - to I hate you, no MC, no nothing - I just want a divorce. All because of my not wanting him to be so close with another woman??"*


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## Jane139 (Jan 6, 2015)

I went back and read your first post. Sounds like he wanted you to know about his affair so that he could turn around and accuse you of being a shrew or not trusting him, making you the bad guy in his mind.

Anyway...I really do not understand why you would want this guy back, ever. He forced you to lie to your parents, taking hand-outs from them rather than get off his a** and find work (or even look for work). That right there is too much for me, even without the cheating, and you have dealt with both. I think he said "if" he comes back to your child to avoid having to tell him it was never going to happen, not to leave the door open for your hopes. He does not want to be the "bad guy" there either.

You should be thrilled to be rid of this loser, but of course this is just my opinion...and probably not a welcome one.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

FL, you're right on - I need to stop holding out hope - because it's only delaying this process. It is very well possible, this is why I'm starting to go through this whole new phase of grief here - because, I think I was fooling myself all along, that - he was going to regret this, and come home. So - I have sat here this entire 6 months, and allowed myself to pretend in my mind, that sooner or later - he'd come....just wait, and wait I did. 

So, I guess I could say this - I guess, I can consider myself lucky - that I seem to be going through the stage of learning to accept he isn't - and that is why, I'm in so much pain. Because I'm starting to face reality? Perhaps?

I wish I didn't do this to myself, because now I feel like I have to start all over again. When you finally accept it, and get on with it - is it like starting over again - from Day 1 (move out day)?? 

I think I knew better too. I remember telling myself, you only feel good because you are convincing yourself he's going to come home... but, to be perfectly honest with you. I did it because, it eased the pain and I was looking for anything to help and that helped.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

Lost40 said:


> FL, you're right on - I need to stop holding out hope - because it's only delaying this process. It is very well possible, this is why I'm starting to go through this whole new phase of grief here - because, I think I was fooling myself all along, that - he was going to regret this, and come home. So - I have sat here this entire 6 months, and allowed myself to pretend in my mind, that sooner or later - he'd come....just wait, and wait I did.
> 
> So, I guess I could say this - I guess, I can consider myself lucky - that I seem to be going through the stage of learning to accept he isn't - and that is why, I'm in so much pain. Because I'm starting to face reality? Perhaps?
> 
> ...


There you go.
Live for YOU...not somebody else.

You are doing it.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Life, I know.. I am (or need to say, was) his doormat. There is no doubt in my mind. I allowed it, and I probably even encouraged it, because I allowed it for so long. 

No, I don't want that back.. but, he has me so convinced that I am nothing without him. He drilled that into my head obviously without me looking or realizing it was happening. 

He also has me so damn convinced right now, that I was this POS person, and honestly - I think I'm having a hard time, not blaming myself for a lot of this. My therapist is telling me, there are people that will spend their whole life, telling you these things, to convince you that you have the problem - so that, you believe you're the problem - to make things easier on them. And, he thinks my situation is a classic example of this, but - I'm also not going to sit here and say, yes he's right. I feel like I need to dig deep and find out what I did... there has to be something, I'm not realizing or admitting to. 

When is it going to dawn on him, what he did.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Lost40 said:


> Life, I know.. I am (or need to say, was) his doormat. There is no doubt in my mind. I allowed it, and I probably even encouraged it, because I allowed it for so long.
> 
> No, I don't want that back.. but, he has me so convinced that I am nothing without him. He drilled that into my head obviously without me looking or realizing it was happening.
> 
> ...



We like to think we cannot be programmed, but we are. Sure it is easier as a child, but adults can be programmed also. Look at abusive people, and how they control a lot of their abused spouse, where they fear to leave and face the unknown. How terrible life would be without their abuser looking after them. Sounds sick, I know. I know what it is like to have my self worth taken away by an abusive person, hence the suicide attempt for a 10 year old. I figure that my father's life would be better without me in it, the world would be a better place. I had to find my self worth, and the will to live. I was programmed to believe that I was worthless. Your going to have to do some cognitive restructuring to see yourself differently. You are a unique individual. There will not be another you ever. You have to find value in yourself. This is about what you can do for you.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Sorry I am coming back to reply to everything, including my private message Mr Fisty. I am having an issue that keeps pulling me away. I need to find a place to post this, b/c I'm truly confused on what more to do - separate, child custody issue.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

But you still want this pos back! That's the problen. Of course he'd convince you you're nothing without him, how else could he get you not only to accept him as a complete pos, but he got you to lie for him so nobody else would know. If he comes back what do you get? An even bigger pos who threw his wife and family away for a "friend" and would've ruined you of he could've gotten away with it. If you take him back he will ruin you, waste more years of your life, and when there's either nothing more to sponge or he gets a better deal he's going to dump you again. We're trying to get you to comprehend this and you're still hoping he changes his mind! Maybe it's a process, I just hope you get there before this pos ruins what's left of your life. You are not nothing, you're magnitudes more then this pos. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

3X -- No, you can't really box up a piano -- I thought about covering it, like suggested - but then I realized... No. My cats like to get up on the piano, and sleep on it. They also groom themselves on it, and I figured - this might destroy it with all their hair, or scratch it up a little bit - which would be OK with me. The books... the thought of boxing those up, drains me - there are probably 800 books. I need to, but I feel like by doing that - I'm helping him, one of the reasons he won't do it is b/c he is lazy - and doesn't want to do it himself. So, wouldn't he be the winner if he waited long enough for me to do it? I actually had to tell him tonight, that I was done doing favors for him. I am so tired of being his doormat, and I think I am his doormat. Why? Because I thought I wanted him back, I guess. So, I told him - I am done doing favors - and this means, no more storing your crap. Come get it, or I will contact my attorney and find a way to get rid of it myself at your expense. Certainly the attorney has a way of getting it gone, doesn't she? Problem is, what more can she do, besides "ask" him to move it. I don't want to spend $1000. having her legally force him to do it.


I definitely know what you mean about what would I think if I saw another man/woman doing this to someone else. I would cringe and think "Man! What is going on here!" --- I agree. I try to step back and look at my story in that same regard.. and I see it, I do. I'm just too damn dumb to figure it out for my own situation though I guess. 

So, your ex did that crap to you too? That is terrible, and I do see that. So, I also know why you see it with my story, you don't want the same thing happening to me either - and I need to wake the hell up - I know. I will.. I think I'm starting to.... I feel like I am, but then something happens and down I go again.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Jane -- It's a welcomed opinion - any opinions and advice are greatly welcomed! In fact, it helps me to hear over and over how horrible he is. Is it a known thing, that it does help to hear this kind of thing or does it actually make it worse? I don't know, but I can tell you - my favorite person to talk to in real life is my Mom, because she can really get going with her insults and making him look like the POS he is. It's that whole "Mother knows best, so better listen" thing, lol. So, its always enjoyable talking to her - but, then I wonder sometimes - Does that help to hear that? I think so. 

I don't know why I think I want him back. I am being serious though, when I say - I can plainly see he is a no good @ss, but, at the same time - he held qualities I used to love. What if he carries that life on with someone else now?


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Life --- You're right, and I can totally see that happening too. I know in my heart now, that I can't trust him. Even if he came back, and immediately seemed like the man I once knew - and loved, and he said all the right things --- I wouldn't trust him, and I know I would never let that go - to the point, it would never work out b/c I would constantly be asking him "What if you do it again?" He would say "Never" and I'd go <swoon> Okay... Until next week, then I'd do it again. I can see it plain as day, what I'd do. It's what I did during the affair thing, I'd ask, he'd deny - I'd say Oh okay, you're right - I'm just being jealous... then a few days later, right back to it. Until it just became entirely too much to take, and I knew I deserved more... and I honestly thought I'd get more, by demanding it. I was wrong, and I think that hurts me a lot. That, even me playing hardball - wasn't enough. Isn't that what was supposed to happen --- I mean in the movies or books, you catch your spouse - and they come running, dropping at your feet, apologizing for the mistake. Why doesn't that happen in reality?

Reality is, they turn on you like a snake - accusing you of being the bad person, and divorcing you for it. Doesn't make sense.


Trust me, you all are helping me - I am getting there, I really am. Tonight was a wake up call. I'll tell the story in a few, I don't know if I screwed up, or if I did good - but I can tell you it felt good and said a lot - b/c in the past - I wouldn't of been able to say that, without crying about it the next minute.

I DO NOT want to be back in a relationship with this guy, because I DONT want this happening to me again. I DONT.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Hi Fisty!
Thanks for the PM, I will respond. 

That is my problem, yes I remember being happy before him, but like I told my Mom... I was never really in any kind of committed relationship before him. I dated a few guys here and there, nothing long term, no one I ever would've married or probably even loved, lust maybe. Looking back at who I dated when I was younger, I'm surprised my Mom never choked me, sometimes. LOL. So, I think this plays a HUGE role in my fear today. My husband was the first guy I ever truly loved, and definitely been with the longest. So, he's all I know - I don't even know how to date or meet people now that I'm 40. I'm kind of shy in real life, b/c of my self-esteem issues. So, I feel like - wow - maybe he was all I was able to get! And, it scares me.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Okay - so, my story of tonight. Unfortunately had to contact him regarding switching tutoring days, and times for son. It now requires him picking son up at school, as opposed to my house. 

I very very rarely contact him first anymore. If I do, it's only in regard to son and it's important - like tonight. So, like I've been - too polite, and I said "Hey X, Can you let me know when you have a minute, would like to discuss tutoring change of plans with you".

I never hear back... 4 hours later, I texted him again. Telling him, what the new plan was, if this is a problem let me know ASAP, but I have to let tutor know tomorrow morning at the latest! 

So he responds. Telling me, Depending on the day and what I'm doing - it's fine, but if I am busy - you'll have to drive him there, and I'll pick him up. So, again - telling me, that I need to more or less be available at the drop of a hat, if he calls and says "Cant get there, you take him - I'll pick him up". Which now means, I can't "pre-plan" my days ahead of time (like I do now), b/c I might have to go pick son up at school - b/c his Dad has now instructed me, that if my schedule is busy - I might not be there on time, so you'll have to be. (Does this make sense?)

My attorney told me, that on his days - if he wasn't able to do, whatever - it was his responsibility to find another way, and that it was not I, who had to make it "easier" on him. If it was my night off, it was my night off. Period. That I shouldn't have to sit around and wait for my next command. I hate to think like that though, b/c this is my son who I love dearly - and if I could have him 100% of the time - I would. But... he demands him, so why should I make it easier for him. The man doesn't work! He has no excuse.

So, I think I just finally lost my cool. I'm thinking "doormat" while I am reading this. And, I kind of just lost my cool and said ...

If I'm able to help, I would - but please don't count on it, be sure you always have someone else who you can call for help if you can't do it - because I'm not here to serve you anymore. You made your decision, I made mine. 

He wrote back "You are not welcome to be part of my life, never ask me where I am, what I'm doing and how I live my life, it's none of your business - ever" 

:scratchhead:

I said "X, don't embarrass yourself - I don't believe I've asked anything of the sorts, and haven't for sometime. If I'm not mistaken you are the one who texted me a few weeks ago, asking me what I was doing on NYE. You know full well I've not once tried to contact you outside of son in many months!!" 

Then I said "You need to realize, you and your new life mean nothing to me anymore, I could care less what you are doing, and who you are doing it with. Once you get that through your head, maybe then you will be happy - like I am!" 

He said "Sure u r, Enjoy. Leave me alone"

I wrote back and said "I am, very! I saw you on Monday and this confirmed it, looking at you was like looking at a stranger - come get your things from my house - I'm not doing anymore favors for you, including storing your things"

I never heard back from him after that. It makes me feel good I said all that though. It's like, I finally was able to leave him with a final note of "I'm happy, why aren't you?" Even though I know I'm lying but he doesn't need to know that. I don't care if I messed up the NC. I don't need him back. I don't deserve that. 


The problem is, I from now on, won't be able to ever pre-plan - that one evening a week, b/c I will worry too much about son not getting picked up at school... So, here I am, yet again--- being a doormat. But - at least I've made him believe I won't be willing to help. When he calls and says "Be there to get him, I Can't" - I'll say, I can't either. Better find someone else. But - what he doesn't know is, I will be there - because there is no way in helI I'd put my son in the middle of that and leave him stranded at school.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Thats awesome you were able to say those things! And you are right, he doesnt need to know that right now you arent really happy, lie your ass off about it. 

The man doesnt work. There is not a single excuse for him to not be able to pick up your son. Your attorney is right, he needs to make arrangements when it is his time/turn to do something with your son. Dont pick up his slack. I know its tough, because thats your kid. With his attitude, I wouldnt be the least surprised if eventually he stops having anything to do with your son. But in the meantime, force him to take that little bit of responsibility. 

And no, you dont need him back, and no, you dont deserve that.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Thanks, I felt pretty good about it - I knew I broke the cardinal rule of giving him contact like that, but - there comes a time when you just don't care. lol. 

What really amazes me is, in the past - I'd read that, leave me alone - never again ask me anything. And, I'd run off and cry for an hour. This time, it just fueled me to share with him how stupid he sounded, and allowed me to show him how little he meant to me.

We'll see if it lasts. Perhaps if I lie enough to him and myself about it (being happy, when I'm not yet truly there), it will come true?

Why do you think he keeps trying to insult me with his "I don't care about you anymore" lines? Just to get me to feel bad? Or is it showing how miserable he is? Personally I think it shows how miserable he is. Especially after seeing him Monday, when he truly looked miserable.

Tell me this... after a divorce is over, and it's been sometime.. year or two and longer - and you share a child with this other person. When you contact that other person in regards to your child, is it normal to have this "I want to hurt your feelings" comments made? Or, is that still just left over poison in his veins? To me, it seems unusual to act that way. I can't imagine ever acting like that to someone for no reason. I gave him no reason.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

It can be scary, but nothing worth gaining is easy. When you regain your self-esteem, find your self worth, things will seem different. Your mindset, the way you view yourself, can change your world view, and how you interact in it. Do not worry about a new relationship, or finding someone else at the moment. The priority should be on you, and how you can make your own life fulfilling. have you consider doing charity work, and helping others? I think making a difference in people's life somehow would suit you well. And it is okay to feel satisfaction and proud in helping others, it can be a gratifying experience.

You can turn your generous heart into an advantage, and gain strength from that. I am happy when I help someone take a better path in life. But, I remain emotionally detach so if things do not work out, I am still emotionally stable to help others.

As for your ex, I suggest you document the times he is not there to pick your son up. His failing as a parent will show his lack of responsibility, and that can be used against him. Also, be careful about what you text. I suggest you save the text he sends you as evidence if it is harassing or shows his lack of responsibility.

Do not worry about his frame of mind. He does not need to know about yours. Just wear a cool, calm, collective mask when you see him. Even though that outburst felt good, the next time just state the facts and be done. What he sends back are just excuses. Next time send a message like this. "On the days you have s, you will be responsible for his ride. " That is it, he does not need to know what is going on in your life, whether you have plans or not, and whatever he responds,, just ignore it. If he does leave your son stranded, let him text you, and use it against him. This is about playing smart. Every thing you can gather, is another weapon in your arsenal against him. Just pick up your son, and show him that your there for him. As he gets older, help him be more independent from you, so you can place more priority in your own life, plus he gets ready for the adult world. I was thrust into a role that I was not ready for, and it felt overwhelming at times. Slowly give your son more and more responsibilities. So when he enters the adult world, he can take care of himself.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Good for you, you did good. He's simply not a very good human being and now you're starting to see that.

He's still trying to make sure you're on the hook as plan B.....if he'd moved on he wouldn't give a sh!t if you're happy or not. If you really want to stick it to him you could always add that of course you're terribly unhappy, you've lost a non-working worthless pos, it's such a big loss. Anyone would be miserable not having that to leech off of them. Or you could just think that 

As far as pre-planning, don't think of it like that. Assume that you have full responsibility for your son....I understand this because I had the same thing with my ex. He was career military which did make his schedule harder but he's never been particularly involved, I don't think he even knows where they go to school. It's been almost 10 years for us and he does see them on weekends now and has been a little more helpful if I ask him to take them, but that might have something to do with the fact that he's retired from the military and looking for another job so I've been giving him a break on child support. Know that everything you do you do for your son, and he's older so you don't have that long. Your son knows what's going on and the older he gets the more he'll see his father for what he is. Where your son is concerned you're not a doormat, you're a caring mother.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Did I do the right thing? 

As you know, my husband has many items here he won't come get. I got a text from one of his nephews - Keep in mind, this is the FIRST time I've heard from any of his family members... Not once has any of them reached out to me, to say "How are you?" or anything. 

Nephew: Hi Aunt (name), this is (name)! I was talking to (name - my ex) and he said I could have his guitar, but that I needed to call you to see if it was OK if I came and picked it up?

(I ignored him, because --- frankly, I find it extremely rude that none of them try to reach out to me, until they want something)

....3 hours later....

Nephew: I'm not picking it up for him, he told me I could have it, but I needed to get it from you.

So... Finally I said.

"EX is supposedly figuring out a day he can come pick his things up, I'd appreciate you get with him on when he will be doing that and you can get it from him. I don't want to get in the middle of it. thank you"

Then, I sent a text to EX - Please do not have your family contact me, Thank you.


Yes - I could've rid of one thing of his, but it's an item - that I could care less about, because its in the basement, in a storage room closet - out of sight, out of mind. Why should I just bend over backwards (and I would be, by going down to the basement to get something) to make their lives easier when they want something. Screw them, they don't care about how I'm doing, but I'm supposed to worry about them not getting what they want?!


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

I'm having a bad day... but it's gone from, thinking I want my ex back to realizing - it's not that at all - I actually have come to realize, my pain for him is dislike and I've been misunderstanding it - and telling myself its not anger - you love him. I think I'm coming to realize, I actually can't stand him - and the mere thought of him, disgusts me. 

I am now starting to think, could it be - that this has been my problem all along, am I just lonely (I am very much a people person, I definitely exist best with others around me in a close way)? What if I never find someone else? I only know 2 divorced people in my family, both have died now, and neither of them re-married. What if that is the curse on the family? Why didn't they re-marry? It's not like I can ask them. I'm sure there are a thousand reasons why, and none of them relate to my situation - but, at the same time its scary to think - what if it was b/c they couldn't find someone else? Is it possible to fall in love again?

I am meeting with my Priest tomorrow. I called him today, it was terrible. I have gotten away from church, b/c since this divorce - everything I thought I knew, became terribly confused and muddied. So, I stayed away - not sure if it was b/c I was blaming God, or what. So, I made a huge step in calling Father, and asking him if I could come talk. He was so kind, and gentle on the phone - telling me, he was so glad I called - he must know whats wrong, from my son (he goes to school there) - he told me, he'd be there tomorrow morning, and give me the time I needed to discuss this. Then he said I'm praying for you. When he said that, I just burst out crying - I could barely say Thank you, Bye. 

I hope that helps. They have a grief group starting up in February, I plan on asking him about this too. It seems over the past few days or a week - I am FINALLY starting to accept, it's over - and I'm not getting him back, and not just because he won't come back - but because I don't WANT him back. But - it's still painful, very....


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Lost40 said:


> I'm having a bad day... but it's gone from, thinking I want my ex back to realizing - it's not that at all - I actually have come to realize, my pain for him is dislike and I've been misunderstanding it - and telling myself its not anger - you love him. I think I'm coming to realize, I actually can't stand him - and the mere thought of him, disgusts me.
> 
> I am now starting to think, could it be - that this has been my problem all along, am I just lonely? What if I never find someone else? I only know 2 divorced people in my family, both have died now, and neither of them re-married. What if that is the curse on the family? Why didn't they re-marry? It's not like I can ask them. I'm sure there are a thousand reasons why, and none of them relate to my situation - but, at the same time its scary to think - what if it was b/c they couldn't find someone else? Is it possible to fall in love again?


Falling in love again should be the LAST thing on your mind right now. You have so much to deal with right now and to heal from in the near future. The world is not going to end if you dont find someone again. (which most likely YOU WILL...). You have to be okay with yourself, and with being on your own. You wont be any good for anyone else otherwise. YOU need to be your main focus. Getting into a relationship because you think you NEED it to fill a void will only lead to disaster...you should be in one because you WANT to be, to add to your life, not to BE your life.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

You're right, maybe I wasn't clear - I tend to do so much rambling, my point gets lost. 

I am definitely not ready to date, the idea of even thinking about talking to another man in that way - is no where near page 1, it's about on page 50. BUT - what I do think about are the "what if's". I cant seem to get those out of my head.

I guess that is because, I'm still not focused on me. If I'd get focused on me, I would probably stop the what ifs.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

For someone with my history, I surprisingly turned out to be a laid back person. Anxiety, worrying, anger, it does nothing to improve my life. Instead, I find a way to change my reactions, or the circumstance, or the environment. Me feeling negative emotions will mostly only affect me, and no one else really. Those emotions do not change anything really, except make me feel miserable. I have learned to be good at detaching, and learning to analyze.

Once you learn to improve your own life, find ways to make your own life fulfilling, those things will be less of a fear. When you can become healthy, you will have strong boundaries to enforce. The more self-respect we have for our selves, the less bs we put up with. Even though I am laid back, I am not a push over. A lot of your issues seem to stem from your self-esteem. You wanting to please people so that they will love you. I could be wrong. I hope you do really make yourself a priority.


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## dirio-girl (Aug 25, 2014)

Lost40 said:


> J
> I don't know why I think I want him back. I am being serious though, when I say - I can plainly see he is a no good @ss, but, at the same time - he held qualities I used to love. What if he carries that life on with someone else now?


I use to fall in this trap too. We fantasize about our x's future love life only attempting to their qualities. In your own words, it's a "what if" context that you're comparing to a real context, with all the flaws and all the misery that your x caused to you. The hipotetical future situation we can't know by now, but notice that the fantasies are always bigger and better than reality.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Whatever underlying issues that plague us, will continue, unless dealt with. For example, if you entered a new relationship now, your still going to be a codependent. Most likely, he will be a narcissist to any future partner, and will likely beat down another person emotionally.

Plus, the improvements you make, will help with the probability of you having a better future. Think about this as you making investments in yourself. You will have a higher standard for your next partner. Most important of all, you will be confident and love yourself.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I think you did great with his nephew. One more step in standing up for yourself. I bet you'll see a whole different side of him when you regularly stand up for yourself. Bullies tend to fold when they get punched in the nose.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Thinking of you Girl. Sending biggest hugs and prayers!! 

His contempt for you is absolutely disgusting. 

Do not accept or internalize any of that.

Super glad you are reaching out to extended help through your church. I pray the body of Christ surrounds you with His love.


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## FrustratedFL (May 18, 2011)

Lost40 said:


> _I'm having a bad day... but it's gone from, thinking I want my ex back to realizing - it's not that at all - I actually have come to realize, my pain for him is dislike and I've been misunderstanding it - and telling myself its not anger - you love him. I think I'm coming to realize, I actually can't stand him - and the mere thought of him, disgusts me. _
> 
> This is exactly how I feel about my ex. I went from love, to hurt and anger, to pity, to disgust.
> 
> He is now not the center of my world. he is now a pain that I need to deal with seldom but when I do, my whole mood changes. I become short and very few answers to text or email or godforbid phone call. I would rather not see, talk to or have to write to him at all.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I had very negative feelings about my ex-husband until the divorce was final. Then I became indifferent and after that we became friends again. I enjoy seeing him at family functions but most of all I enjoy leaving him behind when I leave those family functions. He's someone else's problem now and not mine. Life is good.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

While it helped meeting with the Priest yesterday, it was nice talking to someone of my faith - who understood my confusion as to how can this be OK - when for almost 14 years, we followed everything the church taught us. Not even that, but my ex was going to BE a priest - it was all he wanted to be from the time he was 4 or 5 years old, up until he graduated from the Seminary at 21-22? At which point, he had a calling - that he was to be a husband and father. He used to be so proud of that, how I must've been the reason for God calling him to me. We didn't meet prior to this decision. It had been several years since he left the idea of being a Priest, before we met. However, I was his first serious girlfriend. He dated one other lady, but they never had much - it was a long distance thing, and they were more just good friends. 

I don't know what my problem is... but, I think I'm un-helpable. I get to the point, where I think OK you've got this, you're starting to understand, he's a bad person - you don't need that in your life. Then, just like that - I find myself unwilling to even get out of bed, and when I do - I just walk around crying all day. This is me today. I'm ready to give up. I do appreciate all your help - but I feel like I'm wasting everyone's time now, because I can't take what you say - and apply it. It makes me so mad, I just want to scream and yell and do something, but I can't. I have a son here, who I have to be strong for.

I am so overwhelmed. We just bought this farm, about 4 months before he started having this affair (he didn't know her before, remember) - we were so excited, we'd come over every day after he got home from work, and watch the progress transform (Fencing, Barns getting put up/finished out) - we'd take pictures and post them to Facebook, talking about our dreams coming true. He would tell me things like "How lucky are we?" Then, after we moved here - we were walking in from the barn, on a beautiful night - and, he reached over and grabbed my hand, and said "You couldn't ask for anything more, could you?"

Then just like that. Over. Now I'm here, trying to manage this huge property that I can't keep up with, all the animals, my son, the bills. I can't move, b/c my son won't have anything to do with that idea - I briefly brought it up once very casually - nothing serious, and he had a melt-down. He loves it here, and I don't blame him. I do too - so, I will make it work - but it's just so much.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Love is an addiction. It has to be worked through your system. That is why getting rid of his stuff is essential. Logically you know he is not right for you, but love is a chemical addiction. If you look at yourself, and what a drug addict goes through as withdrawal symptoms, it is very similar. You need to detach, and cut him out as much as possible. Your going to have your up and down days, just like an addict. You need to let the oxytocin, a bonding hormone, work through your system. You need to work on yourself by going out there to change who you are. Go and experience new things, conquer some fears, and as you change, your world view will change as well. What I went through as a youth, took me years to conquer. A bond could take up to two years to fade, but it can be done. Meet new people, form new bonds, and your still in the early stages. You will go through a pendulum of emotions. As the time passes, the swing will be slower and less powerful. Just keep venting as much as you want, and everyone suffers backslides.


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## FrustratedFL (May 18, 2011)

Lost - it takes a long time to get over the hurt and betrayal. You are still pretty fresh and not divorced yet. You are doing fine and will have days like today where you are just drained with emotion. Prefectly normal. Divorce does a numbered on your emotions, your finances and your personality.

I am forever changed from my divorce. I do not trust as easily, am more guarded and more self conscience. I hope to regain my old self more with time.

Hang in there!


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Stay put for now. Listen to your son. Get him to partner with you on the farm. Be patient and pray. God is working. Trust Him.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Lost, 

I've been away from the forum at late,((much needed))but wanted to send my support your way. 

I could have written so much of the same anxiety, hate, resenment, fear, uncertaintly, and everything you are going thur at about the same time frame. This isn't said to dismiss your situation at all. 

You are maybe 7 months out...When some of us speak of being a changed person, it doesnt mean that we will stay feeling the way we are, and never be back to the person you once were. 

I too liked who I was before. I am still that person, but with soooo much more wisdom than I was before h affair. I learned more in life during this growth period than I can say I did the last 15 years of my marriage.((Married almost 30yrs)) A complete unwanted growth period that I could have done without!

The change we mean, as infidelity and the behaviors it brings out in each other are like nothing one really ever can understand unless you go through it yourself... and sadly, many of us here, never would have believe we would ever find ourselves in.

Our story separates where you want your hub back, as I knew the moment I found out, our marriage was doomed. My hubs begged, begged to come back. We did MC, IC, but nothing ever worked, bc for me, it was a deal breaker that I still havent been able to come to terms 100% with yet and accept. 

I read how he speaks to you, if he were to return, think long and hard of what kind of a marraige it would be now. Will never be what you had, that's a promise. It will be different. It's all different now. 

You are only in your 40's! I look at even 50 yrs olds and think, they are soooo young still. I guess because I still see my father at 94 still living... 

You are going thur a very hard time in your life right now. I too have a son, who I almost made failed his jr year in college bc he was so consumed with what he saw me going thur.

Be mindful of depression. Don't, Don't let it take you down... I went down that road for 22 months without help. It almost cost me my life...get help if you need it, go to your GP, and ask ...

It does get better, and when we say that too, we dont mean jumping for joy better, at least not right away, but you get thurough each phase of grief on you own time... and as you go thur those phases, some how, the questions you hate so much, some how start to make peace with in your mind. 


If the D is a for sure now, do your homework, be smart about it. Read Jeff Lander's D for Women. Read postive growth websites...


I too undersatnd the shame of being "the only one who D." We were the "perfect couple, the golden happy marriage" amongst our friends. Talk about eating crow...

We are all told well get thur this mess, none of us believe so at first, we do, and we are changed, we start to live in the present much much more than coasting along like we might have been, wheather it was good or bad marriage. 

Hang in there Lost. It's a hard place to be right now. 

~sammy


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Oh Lost,

I am so sorry. Remember God did not spare His own Son so our faith could be there for the hard times as well as the easy.

Please be aware that you will cycle through certain stages as you move toward acceptance, you will revisit them and process through them in your own way and time.

Here are two websites you can look at to understand them better.

Grief.com – Because LOVE Never Dies The Five Stages of Grief - Grief.com - Because LOVE Never Dies

The 5 Stages of Loss and Grief | Psych Central

All the hardships you are enduring will keep this alive for some time.

Looking on it just seems like too much for a person to handle, but you have my support and prayers.

Take care!
Decorum.


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## FrustratedFL (May 18, 2011)

sammy3 said:


> The change we mean, as infidelity and the behaviors it brings out in each other are like nothing one really ever can understand unless you go through it yourself... and sadly, many of us here, never would have believe we would ever find ourselves in.
> 
> Our story separates where you want your hub back, as I knew the moment I found out, our marriage was doomed. My hubs begged, begged to come back. We did MC, IC, but nothing ever worked, bc for me, it was a deal breaker that I still havent been able to come to terms 100% with yet and accept.
> ~sammy


This statement rang true to me. Unless you faced infidelity in your marriage, you cannot imagine the pain, shock and anger that takes over your life. 

Many friends felt bad for me during this time but would say you just need to get over it and move on. I would get mad at this since if it was that easy I would have done it being the very independent woman that I am. I think it is a bit worse when you have a long term marriage. 

One friend who was a bit judgemental of my emotional path and the length of time it took for me to make a decision to file for divorce recently found out her husband is in an affair and she called and told me.. "I had no idea the pain or the amount of anger you went through.... Now I TRULY understand and I am sorry". 

It takes a long time for some to get over the pain and betrayal. Me being on of them. Each day gets better and I will be fine but it was hell!


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## WasHappyatOneTime (Nov 26, 2012)

It helps to realize that it's not about you.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Thank you all for taking the time to post again, after knowing I am having a hard time applying the knowledge I learn. I finally made an appointment with my doctor - we had to switch insurance, and I lost him through that switch. But - my mom told me today, since you like him so much - just let me pay for his office visit out of pocket. So, I'm going to him on Wednesday. The minute he walks in, I'll start crying. I love that guy (doctor) so much, he has always been very good to me, and he understands. He knows how much I loved my husband too. So, maybe talking to him since he knows my ex - will help. Plus, I'm asking for new medicine - I don't think what I'm taking is helping anymore. I don't know how I can go from, the progress I made - back to crying literally all day long. I've cried so much today, I have a really bad headache.

I also made an appointment with a second therapist this week, I go see him on Thursday. I actually got to talk to him on the phone today, he sets his own appointments and I cried the whole way through that phone call. He was very nice. So now, I'll be seeing 2 therapists once a week (so twice a week). Something is bound to eventually help me. I know I can't say I'm not trying. Lord knows I am. It just isn't going away.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Here is what happened today with ex. He texted me this "Have son check his text" - I didn't reply, but had son check his text. Son comes to me with his phone .... "Dad said... Ask mom to...."

Made my blood boil. If you're going to text me anyway to have me tell son to look at his phone - why not just ask me!!

So, I replied to him "Please, let's stop the insanity. If you need to ask me something or have me do something - just ask me - don't use our son as a go'for"

He said back... "If you want civil, stop taking my money"

I said "What do you mean? You are paying child support, and very little - not enough to even make a dent"

He said "I'm trying to rebuild my life, and you don't need the money - you have your parents - start treating me like a human being".


OK... So now, this will simmer with me for awhile... and give me a day or two, and I'll be crying over that trying to allow myself to feel guilty for it. What makes him think I'm not treating him like a human being?? HE LEFT ME!!!!!!!!! HE quit his job!!! I didn't take his money away, he LEFT!!!!!!!!!!




I think he is doing this because we have a court date coming up, and he knows he is going to soon be asked - why no job.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

Lost, hopefully his last jab at you will stir up some anger in you.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Lost40 said:


> He said "I'm trying to rebuild my life, and you don't need the money - you have your parents - start treating me like a human being".


There is only ONE RESPONSE to this a$$hole kind of text...very simple...."FVCK YOU".


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Well you're the meanie that wouldn't let him sponge off of you and keep his h0. This hasn't turned out how he planned. Why don't you send him a text telling him you hope his "friend" was worth it. Ask him why he can't sponge off of her, since all he seems to be capable of is sponging off others? Kind of supports the idea that without your money he's not worth much to her. Now you can see who he really is. You're doing a great job.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Reject the lies, in Christ's name. Those don't belong on you. I will be lifting you in prayer.

A good book right about now may be Victory Over Darkness by Neil Anderson as well as Wolf in Sheeps Clothing by George Simon


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Yes it got me really angry, and its when he is nasty like that - that it helps me, b/c it reminds me of how evil he is... but, it never lasts. Eventually I'll go back to, OMG.. I'm lost.

I don't want to, and I'm doing everything in my power to stop that from happening again. I obviously need to work on self-image and esteem - b/c if I believed I was a good person, instead of just saying it - maybe then, it would be a tad easier.

Did anyone use medication to get through their divorce blues? Did it help, or do you feel it just masked the problems? That is what I'm starting to wonder. When this first happened, back in July - my doctor gave me, 2 kinds of pills. 1 an anti-depressant, and another pill to take "as needed" - it's I think some kind of anti-anxiety/sedative type of medicine. Did any of you take anti-anxiety - the kind, that makes you just kind of mellow out, and chill for a little bit? Do you feel that can help out long term to get through this? I'm paranoid about medicine and getting addicted to stuff. I was given 30 of them back in July, and I probably still have 20 left - b/c I worry about taking medicine like that - but I took one last night, after a bad night and it did help me. I calmed down, I was able to sit there and actually relax and calm down enough to enjoy my evening.

I'm going to talk to DR. about this on Wed., but --- just curious if anyone else found relief in this.. or, is it just a mask.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> There is only ONE RESPONSE to this a$$hole kind of text...very simple...."FVCK YOU".



Either that or "friend was an expensive fvck wasn't she"?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FrustratedFL (May 18, 2011)

"I'm trying to rebuild my life, and you don't need the money - you have your parents - start treating me like a human being"

I would reply - "You did not treat me with respect or humane while you were sneaking around with your tramp. You did not live up to your "christian vows" while lying and betraying your family; you did not provide for your family when you quit your job and you certainly did not give a rats ass for me or son being forced to rebuild our lives". Grow up and quit your whining and get a job! 

lol.... but that's just me!


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Funny, my dad said the same thing - tell him to ask her.

I just wrote back, "I'm not interested in being civil with you, it's pretty bad you need to lie to yourself and your family, to get them to stick by your side".

I can't believe he is trying to tell me, I don't treat him like a human being... How can a man, a father and a husband - walk out on his wife, child and quit his job - so that we get nothing but a peanut paycheck once a month that doesn't even cover school tuition and school lunches a month, and tell me I'm not treating him like a human being.

Why would he say to me, if you want me to be civil - stop taking my money? Isn't that trying to use me? 





lifeistooshort said:


> Well you're the meanie that wouldn't let him sponge off of you and keep his h0. This hasn't turned out how he planned. Why don't you send him a text telling him you hope his "friend" was worth it. Ask him why he can't sponge off of her, since all he seems to be capable of is sponging off others? Kind of supports the idea that without your money he's not worth much to her. Now you can see who he really is. You're doing a great job.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

LOL! I like all of your replies so much better than what I said!! Wow. :smthumbup:

Can it hurt me in court replying to him, or would his stupid comment be more of an issue to the court, than what I said?


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## FrustratedFL (May 18, 2011)

My exH after having affairs, walking out on us, paying his tramps bills without paying any bills or child support while we were separated actually had the nerve to text me - "You set me up to fail". 

Delusional self entitled behavior. Trust me - this will go on for a very long time since he does not think he did anything wrong.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

FrustratedFL said:


> My exH after having affairs, walking out on us, paying his tramps bills without paying any bills or child support while we were separated actually had the nerve to text me - "You set me up to fail".
> 
> Delusional self entitled behavior. Trust me - this will go on for a very long time since he does not think he did anything wrong.


See, that is what I'm worried about. I want him to admit, he was wrong. But, it sounds like from what you're saying - they don't? My ex is extremely self-entitled behaving. He always has been, even when things were good. Looking back, I'm not sure I can even say he ever truly felt genuine gratitude for anything - sure he knew how to say Thank you... but that might've been it. Looking back at it now.

Do you think they at least lay in bed at night, and say Wow I messed up? Whether or not they admit to it?

Remind me, Fl... How long have you been separated/divorced? Is he still saying these things? Did he ever admit he was wrong or wanted another try? 

It's gotten so bad, that I know I can't take him back... as bad as I think I want to at times, I know I can't. I would never trust him, and he would be merely only coming back for one thing. Money. BUT... I feel like I deserve that "I'm sorry... I was wrong"


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Blossom Leigh said:


> Reject the lies, in Christ's name. Those don't belong on you. I will be lifting you in prayer.
> 
> A good book right about now may be Victory Over Darkness by Neil Anderson as well as Wolf in Sheeps Clothing by George Simon


I've heard of that book Wolf in sheeps clothing, you're the second person to tell me to read this book. I'm going to go order it right now. I'll look at the other you mentioned too.

Any other books to help with this kind of thing, or even to help me boost my self-worth/esteem... greatly appreciated. I read a lot.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Lost40 said:


> LOL! I like all of your replies so much better than what I said!! Wow. :smthumbup:
> 
> Can it hurt me in court replying to him, or would his stupid comment be more of an issue to the court, than what I said?


I doubt the court will care if you tell him to ask his h0. In fact it could support infidelity..... you should stop trying to decide what's going on in his head though. He's not thinking clearly, none of this turned out how he imagined, and he's not used to dealing with a "lost" that doesn't grovel at his feet. 

I think you're doing well, it's a process. My hope is that he doesn't decide to beg for his family before you're completely detached, because he will ruin your life if he gets back in. 

Want a laugh? My grandfather walked out on my grandmother in the 1950's and left her with three kids and little family. My dad was 12 and went to work, his brother was 1 and his sister was 14. I think grandpa sent money once in a while but be was a drunk. My mom tells me a story of when she first met my dad and was at his apartment in Brooklyn and his father calls. My grandmother, in her Brooklyn Jewish accent, answers the phoneand says "grandfather, you're still alive? Why don't you drop dead so younger son can get your social security". When he finally died my uncle, who was grown by then, went with her to his apartment since they never officially divorced. They find $200 (a lot of money in 1976) and my grandma yells "he has $200!!!!! He should drop dead". My uncle says "ma, he is dead". My grandma says "well he should drop dead again". She was pretty cool.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Lost40 said:


> See, that is what I'm worried about. I want him to admit, he was wrong. But, it sounds like from what you're saying - they don't? My ex is extremely self-entitled behaving. He always has been, even when things were good. Looking back, I'm not sure I can even say he ever truly felt genuine gratitude for anything - sure he knew how to say Thank you... but that might've been it. Looking back at it now.
> 
> Do you think they at least lay in bed at night, and say Wow I messed up? Whether or not they admit to it?
> 
> ...



You do deserve the "I'm sorry I was wrong", but if your ex was the kind of guy that could see he was wrong or admit it he wouldn't have done you how he did. There will come a day where you won't care.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Lost40 said:


> I've heard of that book Wolf in sheeps clothing, you're the second person to tell me to read this book. I'm going to go order it right now. I'll look at the other you mentioned too.
> 
> Any other books to help with this kind of thing, or even to help me boost my self-worth/esteem... greatly appreciated. I read a lot.


There are a lot of books in the link in my signature, but I will also do some thinking and recommend more that come to mind.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Your trying to get validation from a narcissist. He is too wrapped in his own image of self, that he either does not care, or he sees it most likely that he is doing nothing wrong. Living with a narcissist for so long, you lost yourself in him, so your trying to separate who you are, and also your trying to figure out who you are as well.. Your also grieving for a lost part of yourself, and who you used to be, like his wife, partner. Those things no longer apply to you, so now that part of you is gone.

During this time, your in a conflict of selves. One is your feelings, and the other is your logical side. It is like your logic knows what to do to move on, but your feelings are pulling you into another direction. The only way to have both converge on the same path is to detach. Like it takes time for you to fall in love, decide that you want to spend your life with him, it takes time to fall out of love as well. Sorry to say, it does not happen like that, where you instantly fall out of love.

Hopefully, you do invest more into yourself. It is okay to be selfish, because a healthy you can do more than an emotionally, physically exhausted you. You would be a better role model for your son. Also, whatever crap he pulls, I would not acknowledge it. He knows that he is getting under your skin. Breathe through your diaphragm, and use serene imagery to calm down. It will lower your blood pressure, and give you better control over your anger. Anger has a physical affect on us. So your calming your body down to let your logical side react. It is okay to have feelings, but you do not want them to rule you all the time. Acknowledge them, and then try detaching to see if you can get a better prospective.


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## FrustratedFL (May 18, 2011)

Lost40 said:


> Remind me, Fl... How long have you been separated/divorced? Is he still saying these things? Did he ever admit he was wrong or wanted another try?


Married 18 yrs - separated in 2012, filed for divorce in 2013 and final was May 2014. Ex delayed every legal matter despite me splitting everything 50/50. That is why it took so freaking long. All the while he is avoiding all legal papers and shacking up with tramp #2. Now he is on to mistress #3 turned legit gf. 

He still says nasty things often. Delusional statements like - I stole from him. Set him up to fail. and tells me I emasculated him. LOL!! 

He never admitted his wrong doing. Never sincerely apologized. Sputtered some guilty phrases always followed by a BUT.... But you made me cheat. But you did not show you cared... But you nagged. Never "I am sorry, I did wrong and you did not deserve it ". 

Live by the saying: Life gets easier once you accept an apology you never received!


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Lifestooshort, you're right - I need to detach before much longer - I agree 100%. It should be easy, I have realized that it should - like Mr Fisty said.. my logic side says, Yes - my feelings say, Wait a minute!

That is a funny story about your grandma. lol She sounds like she was a hoot!


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> if your ex was the kind of guy that could see he was wrong or admit it he wouldn't have done you how he did. There will come a day where you won't care.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're absolutely right. That is a good point, if he was the kind of guy that would apologize, he wouldn't of done it in the first place. 

Is it really honestly true... that eventually I won't care? No matter how much I loved him and felt like I would be nothing without him?


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Mr Fisty,
You are absolutely right... my logical side is saying, Get out of this mode... and my Feelings are saying ...."Wait, hold on... you can't give up" --- It's stupid of me, and you make a very good point about that. I will explain that is what I'm doing to my therapist tomorrow.

I'm amazed at how much truth their is to saying, there really truly is a physical effect on those who are going through such emotions. I literally had a splitting headache when I was writing earlier - I had myself so flipping worked up earlier, that I probably had a migraine - never had one, so not sure.. but, if I would guess - that is what it was. I took 2 aspirin and although much better, it's still there knocking on my head reminding me, I put myself through way too much today.

I had my fitness class today, and I almost didn't go. I sat on the edge of my bed crying... I said how am I ever going to get through that class today? I just want to lay back down and sleep. So, I called my Mom.. and she said "Listen, at least go.. if you get there and you can't get through it, then leave - but, at least you know you tried and that is all you can do - is try" 

So, I went.. and I went in.. and I exercised. I started getting weepy when exhaustion set in.. and I said Stop it, he isn't worth it... don't let him win. So I stayed, and I finished my 1 hour class.

I feel proud of myself for that. Even though when I got in the car, I balled my eyes out... called my mom and said I did it... I almost quit, but I didn't. Such ridiculous behavior... it really truly is. One day, I will be embarassed by all this. I hope


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

FL, is he still with #3? How do you feel about that now, is it a pretty neutral feeling - like you couldn't care less? Or are you still grieving some?

Your ex sounds a lot like mine... The blaming thing. What seriously goes through their heads? They really honestly believe, we just might believe them, and think that we pushed them to an affair? Who does that, who seriously would tell their spouse, go have an affair - I won't care.

I like your saying... accept an apology you never receive, do you feel you've done this? Would this also be "forgiving"?


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

It is about the little victories building into the bigger ones. People heal at their own pace, and you have to allow yourself the time. Your looking ahead at the journey, waiting for that point, but it is really one step at a time.

Bonds do fade over time. Imagine you once being close to a friend in high school, you promise that you will be friends forever, but eventually you slowly drift apart, and over time you both change and grow into different people. What made you best friends before is no longer there. Same concept, you are growing, and learning on the way. You slowly get used to the idea of him not being around, you start telling yourself, that you are no longer his wife. You can start that now. Mentally disassociate the idea that you are his wife. Keep reminding yourself and eventually you will learn to see yourself as not his.

Well, due to my unstable past, it is easy to detach. I am really practiced at it, and detaching is something that you have to learn. Attachments are a double-edged sword, as you have figured out. Attachment can make life more fulfilling with the connections we make, yet, at the same time, it can cause us so much suffering. Over time, we naturally get used to living without that person, we adapt to new circumstances. I just happen to have to learn to adapt a lot to loss.

This is one of your big losses. Your not accustomed to it, and so you do not have a point of reference to draw upon. That is why it is overwhelming at times. You do not know how to react, or what you should be feeling. So do not beat yourself up for taking the time you need to figure all this out. Plus, your learning about your strengths and weaknesses as well. Adversity will do that, it will bring out what we need to work on in order to grow and become stronger individuals.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Lost, I took an anti depressant and had an anti anxiety med to take as needed as well. Use it! If you take them like you are supposed to, chances of becoming addicted are slim to none. I would take it when my mind raced at night when I went to bed, and at those times when I would be literally shaking from the stress. 

You wont ever get a real apology from him about all of this. My last husband truly screwed me over, and didnt give two sh!ts or a second thought about it, because he got what HE wanted. His whole life revolves around himself and what he wants, and he doesnt care who he destroys in the process. I have to believe there is a special hell just for people like him, because he skates through life completely untouched by Karma, makes me sick. But I have a life to live so cannot dwell on it, I just hope that I am right and his hell is way beyond what I can even wish on him.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Psalm 37
Of David.
1 *Do not fret because of those who are evil*
or be envious of those who do wrong;
2 for like the grass they will soon wither,
like green plants they will soon die away.
3 Trust in the LORD and do good;
dwell in the land and enjoy safe pasture.
4 Take delight in the LORD,
and he will give you the desires of your heart.
5 Commit your way to the LORD;
trust in him and he will do this:
6 He will make your righteous reward shine like the dawn,
your vindication like the noonday sun.
7 Be still before the LORD
and wait patiently for him;
do not fret when people succeed in their ways,
when they carry out their wicked schemes.
8 Refrain from anger and turn from wrath;
do not fret—it leads only to evil.
9 *For those who are evil will be destroyed,*
but those who hope in the LORD will inherit the land.
10 A little while, and the wicked will be no more;
though you look for them, they will not be found.
11 But the meek will inherit the land
and enjoy peace and prosperity.
12 The wicked plot against the righteous
and gnash their teeth at them;
13 but *the Lord laughs at the wicked,
for he knows their day is coming.*
14 The wicked draw the sword
and bend the bow
to bring down the poor and needy,
to slay those whose ways are upright.
15 But *their swords will pierce their own hearts,
and their bows will be broken*.
16 Better the little that the righteous have
than the wealth of many wicked;
17 for *the power of the wicked will be broken*,
but the LORD upholds the righteous.
18 The blameless spend their days under the LORD’s care,
and their inheritance will endure forever.
19 In times of disaster they will not wither;
in days of famine they will enjoy plenty.
20 But *the wicked will perish*:
*Though the LORD’s enemies are like the flowers of the field,
they will be consumed, they will go up in smoke.
21 The wicked borrow and do not repay,*
but the righteous give generously;
22 those the LORD blesses will inherit the land,
but those he curses will be destroyed.
23* The LORD makes firm the steps
of the one who delights in him;
24 though he may stumble, he will not fall,
for the LORD upholds him with his hand.*
25 I was young and now I am old,
yet I have never seen the righteous forsaken
or their children begging bread.
26 They are always generous and lend freely;
their children will be a blessing. 
27 Turn from evil and do good;
then you will dwell in the land forever.
28 For the LORD loves the just
and will not forsake his faithful ones.
*Wrongdoers will be completely destroyed;*
the offspring of the wicked will perish.
29 The righteous will inherit the land
and dwell in it forever.
30 The mouths of the righteous utter wisdom,
and their tongues speak what is just.
31 The law of their God is in their hearts;
their feet do not slip.
32 *The wicked lie in wait for the righteous,
intent on putting them to death;*
33 *but the LORD will not leave them in the power of the wicked*
or let them be condemned when brought to trial.
34 Hope in the LORD
and keep his way.
He will exalt you to inherit the land;
*when the wicked are destroyed, you will see it.*
35 I have seen a wicked and ruthless man
flourishing like a luxuriant native tree,
36 but he soon passed away and was no more;
though I looked for him, he could not be found.
37 Consider the blameless, observe the upright;
*a future awaits those who seek peace.*
38 But all sinners will be destroyed;
there will be no future[e] for the wicked.
39 The salvation of the righteous comes from the LORD;
he is their stronghold in time of trouble.
40 *The LORD helps them and delivers them;
he delivers them from the wicked and saves them,
because they take refuge in him.*


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

Lost40 said:


> So, I went.. and I went in.. and I exercised. I started getting weepy when exhaustion set in.. and I said Stop it, he isn't worth it... don't let him win. So I stayed, and I finished my 1 hour class.
> 
> I feel proud of myself for that. Even though when I got in the car, I balled my eyes out... called my mom and said I did it... I almost quit, but I didn't. Such ridiculous behavior... it really truly is. One day, I will be embarassed by all this. I hope



One day you will NOT be embarrassed by all this.
One day you will look back on this and say "Wow...I made it!"
You can do this.
It just takes a little time...and some crying.
...and maybe a little more time...and a lot more crying.

What you are doing is a natural reaction to what is happening. Right now you are also a little clouded and you need some time to adjust your feelings.
In the meantime, listen to your head and apply logic.
If it too hard, come here and ask.

You ARENT going through anything that millions of others have.
They survied and so will you. 

I feel for you. I really do.
My ex was a lot like this.
She had me bluffed for a long time...sometimes it even seemed like she was deliberately targeting my weak spots.

Keep exercising and coming here to vent. Dont give him the satisfaction of melting down for him.

...and instruct your son to always tell his dad if he wants to tell you something to get in touch with you directly. This go between crap is cowardly and will only teach your son the same style of communication his father uses.
Not good.

In the meantime, you have only to realize that you are much stronger than you think and that his BS is no reflection on you.

Oh and please make sure the therapists know about each other so they can coordinate plans. It works much better that way.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Lost, 

I fought going on anti depression for 22 months. Worst thing I could have ever done. I couldnt even get out of bed without weeping and weeping, almost 24/7. Nothing looked good to me. I was in such depression that I didnt even know. 

I never thought anything would ever get better. 
I never worked, so I was so worried about money. I have been a sahm and continue that way of life for all of the marriage. I lost almost all friends as they all moved away with the husbands after the kids moved out. Mom is dead, sister is dead, father 94 yrs old. Son in medical school. I have no real skill in the modern world. I do know what it 
like to be afraid. 

I too had a friend who called me a yr later after finding out about her h and said sadly said the same as your friend to me. 

Take the meds as if anything, it will help your emotions to calm down. It will help you to control your emotions instead of your emotions controlling you. That is what is happening right now to you.

As far as getting off of them when you are stronger and healthier, you can, and you will. 

Wonderful you have your mom & dad in your life. 

~sammy


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

GUILT....... this is the problem!!!! My therapist found a reoccurring thought in my head. He's had me doing cognitive therapy I think he called it - and I'm supposed to write down, what happened, and my thoughts on it -- before and during. He said what is your common thought pattern? I said I don't know, my EX... and he said, Yes.. but what else... there is something bigger. I said, I don't know... He said "GUILT!" ... You feel Guilty, STOP IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You have nothing to feel guilty about.

OK... so, now I think I know where a lot of my pain is coming from... I feel guilty. Through talking today, we are starting to see that I am blaming myself for his decisions in life - that led us, to this stage. My biggest thing, is - I feel guilty, b/c he worked for a family business (well it was being passed down to us) and now that this happened, and he is without a job... and has no money, I find myself to blame - b/c the business came from my side of the family. He was offered to stay, but his excuse is (how do you stay, when I'm divorcing you) - I said, don't divorce me. lol

Wow... this is going to take some time... I do understand enough that it was a mutual marital decision to take the co., and I in no way pushed...(infact, I clearly spelled out - I will not make the decision, it is yours to make - b/c you obviously will be the one in charge) but, what I feel is - maybe, he did it to make me happy... or maybe he did it bc he hated his job... And now, he finds himself a 40 year old man without a job or a future... it's all gone... and now I'm gone (he left though! I begged him to come back many many times) -- Wow.

But that still didn't give him a right to go run around with this OW... So, why do I harbor guilt?


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

You will have to look further into your past for that answer to someone before your husband, possibly a parent figure.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Can I share with you some things he has said over the months since we've been separated - of course these have all stopped now, he hasn't said or made any comments like these since before October/November.... But, these comments are probably what keep me hanging on... 

"You are my most intimate friend, you will always be... who knows what the future holds, maybe we will end up back together"

"All is not lost... I just need time"

"We will just get re-married later if we want to"

"Telling me no one will ever know him, or understand him like I do - and that can't be replaced"

"If we stop the divorce, how are we going to get our money back for the retainer fees - (this was early on, after about a month or so of filing)"

I was talking once about selling the horses, and the farm - b/c I had no idea how I was going to manage, and he said "No, you don't have to do that... just give me time, I'll ... and then he stopped himself and said, it'll be okay.. just wait.. 

Very very early, like the first month - he said, "I'll be back, I just need time - I made a promise, and I won't break it, but I'm not happy and we need to work on that and blah blah blah - basically making himself out to be a saint for upholding his vows, while he runs around on this woman"


He has said all these things, and more probably that I'm just not remembering, I just remember these because I desperately held onto them, in hopes... He has said some before and after divorce was filed - mostly all before. After divorce was filed, he still tried to make comments, and another big thing he did was - he wanted to come over for sex. I never allowed that.

Of course this has all stopped now, since before the holidays - it went basically NC, ignoring and where we are now. Shi!tty comments.

So you can see why he has me so confused... on what he is doing, and his words certainly don't seem like I was all that bad of a person. The problem is, why am I considering it... why am I taking those comments and refusing to let them go. He was bad to me... he did me very very wrong. I can't take him back, there is no way. I know this - and I think that is another reason for the pain. Knowing, I lost all trust in him. It's sad.

It's guilt... that is why I think I want him back, b/c I feel guilty?


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Blossom Leigh said:


> You will have to look further into your past for that answer to someone before your husband, possibly a parent figure.


I know... but I don't know what... I honestly don't, I was never mistreated or abused in anyway. My parents are good people, they've always been there for me. We've had typical mom/dad crap when I was growing up/teenager... but what is normal, and what is not?


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Read the book Emotional Blackmail and a light bulb may go off.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Lost40 said:


> Can I share with you some things he has said over the months since we've been separated - of course these have all stopped now, he hasn't said or made any comments like these since before October/November.... But, these comments are probably what keep me hanging on...
> 
> "You are my most intimate friend, you will always be... who knows what the future holds, maybe we will end up back together" *-I want to see if I can do better with my h0.*
> 
> ...


I don't get why you're confused.....he thought you'd fold and let him have everything, you, your money, and his h0. Now he'll see if he can do better but if he can't good ole plan B will be moping around desperately waiting for his highness to return.

This is the man you'd get back. You deserve much better and you'll get much better, when you're healed and ready.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Guilt.... Hm, you mentioned that only two other members in your family got a divorced, so you feel guilty and pressure that you did not succeed, where the others around you did. The fact is, you have no control over his actions, and you felt like you failed somehow, and that comes from yourself esteem. I think I mentioned I felt like maybe I was not good enough, and that was why I was abused. I felt like I failed somehow as a child. Usually, now that I am older, I realize that it is a character flaw in the other person.

Also, before this whole incident, you were his wife. You learn to take care of his needs. The fact that you see him in the state that he is in, well past habits die hard. Prior in the past, when he was sick, you took care of him. I am sure when he needed you, you tried to fulfill his needs. This is something that has been hardwired into you, and that does not fade, but takes time to undo. He was a part of you, and you simply feel responsible for him. As bad as he was, you do not wish to see him in such a state.

As for him saying all the things he did back then. It was a way to keep you hooked. Face it, he was not financially stable. He was not sure if the relationship will last with the OW. And he may generally did care back then. Or more likely, he is a manipulative narcissist who was trying to charm you into getting everything he wants. The more you describe him, the more he seems self-centric. He wanted the sex without the commitment. He wanted the business, and wanted to leave you with nothing. He was okay with lowering your self-worth. He pretty much wanted to use you. At first he used flowery language, playing at your emotional side. When you did not give him what he wanted, he resorted to aggression.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

I think you have a pleaser mentality. You feel guilty if you fail at some perceived notion that you did not live up to someone's standard. You want them to love you, so you sacrifice a lot of yourself to satisfy others. You seem to have a hard time making yourself a priority.

When you were younger, did you do things seeking the approval of others? Did you do things in hope of making someone proud of you. You did it more for them, than you did for you. When you accomplished something, you are more excited by their reaction, than you are in the accomplishment itself.


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## FrustratedFL (May 18, 2011)

Lost40 said:


> FL, is he still with #3? *Yes. She dated him after he broke up with the homewrecker with the 4 DUIS. Still married for over a year before we got divorced hence the "mistress" label. *
> 
> How do you feel about that now, is it a pretty neutral feeling - like you couldn't care less? *Or are you still grieving some? Still grieving a bit. I am over him 95% but have an issue with the new one posting all over social media and spending time with my inlaws who I love and get along with all of them. Nieces, nephews, brother in laws and super close to my sister in law and MIL. *
> 
> ...


 I have tried to forgive but have found difficulty in extending the olive branch. for two reasons:

1. The affairs were not necessary. He should have had the balls to tell me he was unhappy and just leave before bringing other tramps into the picture

2. When he left - he left everything. Like he was dead. Never responded to emails. Avoided all divorce motions. Did not pay child support on time but paid his tramps bills. Accountant sent me bank statements by mistake and I saw his checks to pay her rent, cable, water, etc for months. Meanwhile I am begging for money to pay off some bills and get some kind of split happening to organize all the marital bills. I emailed him and said, *"Your father would roll over in his grave if he knew what you have done and how your are treating your wife and child". *

So forgiveness at this point is hard. I don't miss him anymore. I miss some family time but not him. I now just plan my life with my daughter. period.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Blossom Leigh said:


> Read the book Emotional Blackmail and a light bulb may go off.


What kind of lightbulb? lol Do you think my ex has been emotionally blackmailing me, or in my previous life before him?


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> I don't get why you're confused.....he thought you'd fold and let him have everything, you, your money, and his h0. Now he'll see if he can do better but if he can't good ole plan B will be moping around desperately waiting for his highness to return.
> 
> This is the man you'd get back. You deserve much better and you'll get much better, when you're healed and ready.


Thank you, I understand what you're saying - all those comments he made, and what you said "it meant" makes perfect sense. I don't even think I am Plan B anymore to him, and this is probably a good thing.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Lost40 said:


> What kind of lightbulb? lol Do you think my ex has been emotionally blackmailing me, or in my previous life before him?


Yes, because one of the main results of long term emotional abuse is massive self doubt and guilt.

It came from somewhere.... you were not born with it.

The light bulb will be, as you look at the patterns in the book, that you may spot the patterns in someone around you who has been close enough to you to inflict that kind of damage. The book also gives information on how to deal with it in the future.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Mr.Fisty said:


> I think you have a pleaser mentality. You feel guilty if you fail at some perceived notion that you did not live up to someone's standard. You want them to love you, so you sacrifice a lot of yourself to satisfy others. You seem to have a hard time making yourself a priority.
> 
> When you were younger, did you do things seeking the approval of others? Did you do things in hope of making someone proud of you. You did it more for them, than you did for you. When you accomplished something, you are more excited by their reaction, than you are in the accomplishment itself.


Yes, this is exactly how I am, dead on. My son is the same exact way, and my Mom tells me - we were identical, and she is glad - she has told me many times since this divorce - I am so so glad, son takes after you. You have no idea how much of a good thing that is. lol At the same time, I feel sorry for him... he's going to get hurt.. b/c those who act this way, do.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

It's been a few days, here is an update on how things are going. I went to my PCP and he gave me 2 new medicines. Cymbalta and Ativan. I have to take the one everyday, and the other one he said, take it once a day every day for awhile, then cut it back to as needed...as it is habit forming. I started them yesterday. I think I already feel a difference - I had to deal with EX last night, and the words he said to me, would have previously put me into a tail spin - but, I felt like I had control. I could even feel the fear and the tears start, and I sat back for a minute - took a deep breath, and just like that - it went away and I took control of the situation. Me. That is just 1 day... I hope the longer this goes on, the better. I'll explain what happened later.

I joined a divorce support group. It starts for me, on Monday. Sounds like it is all women, and it's a smallish group - 5 or 6 women, and 2 instructors. So long as I show up, I am slightly embarrassed to show up, b/c it actually started 2 weeks ago, but they are letting me come in - b/c I need it, and the next one doesn't start until May. So, everyone knows each other now.... 

I met with a second psychologist - we had a phone interview, and I'm not sure if I'll go back. I asked him, I said.. "If you still have feelings of wishing things would've worked out, does that mean I'll always feel like that?" and he said "It makes it much harder, but with Christ anything is possible". SO... that tells me, that my only hope is God.. Kind of felt like "You're doomed, you only have one hope". 

So, I'm going to ask... those who used to be like me, and think even 6 months later - that they wished they could reconcile - did that hope or feeling ever go away? Did you ever give that idea up? I think that is my problem. I held out hope...


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

I think this desire is from a position of weakness.

But if time passes and you have done work on you, you are independent and your H has done work on him and consistently shows his new relational skills, THEN if you desire and choose to reconcile it will be from a position of strength. I would ONLY reconcile in the latter, not the former.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Lost40 said:


> Yes, this is exactly how I am, dead on. My son is the same exact way, and my Mom tells me - we were identical, and she is glad - she has told me many times since this divorce - I am so so glad, son takes after you. You have no idea how much of a good thing that is. lol At the same time, I feel sorry for him... he's going to get hurt.. b/c those who act this way, do.



The meds are good for right now. As time progresses, you will develop the tools to help you deal with the issues. As I have posted before, how can you react correctly to a situation in which you have no experience. As you gain experience, you will learn and grow as a person. You can change that aspect of you, but it is a slow process. At first, it is constant mental reminders. Like building muscle memory, eventually the new idea and thoughts will be a habit. Repetition is key. That is why I suggested the daily reaffirmation. Get into the practice of stating your good qualities. Also use cognitive restructuring to create new neurological pathways. It changes the physiology of your brain, and your thoughts and how you think, will be different. Your teaching yourself to be a priority.

Everything about you should stem from you first. When you raise your self-worth and value, you will be able to create stronger boundaries, and have the ability to effect consequences. Everyone has a certain level of ego, and you need to raise your's to a healthy level. Being selfish to a certain extent is healthy, because it will allow you to have your needs met. You have been placing yourself low on the totem pole of priority. In fact, you should be on top. The healthier you are, the more you cause others around you to react to you, instead of the other way around. Also, you will be a healthier mother who can teach her son these valuable lessons. Teach him boundaries, teach him self-worth, and teach him empathy. Also, teach him everyone is flawed.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Mr.Fisty said:


> The meds are good for right now. As time progresses, you will develop the tools to help you deal with the issues. As I have posted before, how can you react correctly to a situation in which you have no experience. As you gain experience, you will learn and grow as a person. You can change that aspect of you, but it is a slow process. At first, it is constant mental reminders. Like building muscle memory, eventually the new idea and thoughts will be a habit. Repetition is key. That is why I suggested the daily reaffirmation. Get into the practice of stating your good qualities. Also use cognitive restructuring to create new neurological pathways. It changes the physiology of your brain, and your thoughts and how you think, will be different. Your teaching yourself to be a priority.
> 
> Everything about you should stem from you first. When you raise your self-worth and value, you will be able to create stronger boundaries, and have the ability to effect consequences. Everyone has a certain level of ego, and you need to raise your's to a healthy level. Being selfish to a certain extent is healthy, because it will allow you to have your needs met. You have been placing yourself low on the totem pole of priority. In fact, you should be on top. The healthier you are, the more you cause others around you to react to you, instead of the other way around. Also, you will be a healthier mother who can teach her son these valuable lessons. Teach him boundaries, teach him self-worth, and teach him empathy. Also, teach him everyone is flawed.


Excellent post


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Blossom Leigh said:


> I think this desire is from a position of weakness.
> 
> But if time passes and you have done work on you, you are independent and your H has done work on him and consistently shows his new relational skills, THEN if you desire and choose to reconcile it will be from a position of strength. I would ONLY reconcile in the latter, not the former.


That is right, I wouldn't take him back unless he showed he was willing to change and work on being better -- the problem is, he has told me "I've moved on, you need to move on too - I don't say this to hurt you". 

That was his most recent, he said it last night. He isn't coming back. I don't know how I feel about that comment, b/c he added the "I dont say this to hurt you" thing. So, it's not like he is trying to hurt my feelings, he's just told me like it is. It's over.

I fail to accept it for whatever reason, and I'm nervous that I won't ever accept it. Do people ever feel like I do, this long out - and with this many re-assurances that you need to let go - and do they EVER let go? I'm afraid that doesn't happen.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Mr.Fisty said:


> That is why I suggested the daily reaffirmation. Get into the practice of stating your good qualities. Also use cognitive restructuring to create new neurological pathways. It changes the physiology of your brain, and your thoughts and how you think, will be different. Your teaching yourself to be a priority.
> 
> 
> Also will be a healthier mother who can teach her son these valuable lessons. Teach him boundaries, teach him self-worth, and teach him empathy. Also, teach him everyone is flawed.


Thanks Mr Fisty, that is really helpful. Hopefully with this medicine, my mind will stop racing and I can focus on me. It makes sense what you say, I just need to get the motivation to put it in action. 

I went to a pastoral minister yesterday, and he told me this ..."You have unbelievable dedication to your vows - you should be very proud of yourself, then he said something like - I wish more people were as serious about their vows as you are" - but I don't have that exactly right - it was something like that. So, when he told me that - of course it put me back into the tail spin of "Oh god, I need to keep up with this" and maybe going the church route is not the best idea.. because, they are all about saving the marriage. Which is where I thought I wanted to be, but at some point I have to accept their no saving it, I've done everything I could to save it.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

You need a neutral party where the goal is not whether to save the marriage or not, but help you figure out what is best for you, and what would make you healthy in the long run. People who put the institution of marriage before the well-being of the people involved have a certain goal that they want. Given your circumstance, and the way you describe him, a healthy relationship with him would not be possible at the moment. Nor is it even an option. Even if he came back, he would not help you grow as an individual. A neutral party will help you gain the tools to be fine with or without him. The goal is to place you mentally healthy to assess the situation, and you make the decision that is best for you. A therapist would not tell you what to do, but act like a mirror and give you insight into possibilities. They might help you find some reasoning into the why of it all, but what you do is up to you.

Whatever he says, should have no value to you. He has proven not to be trustworthy, so whatever he claims should be a zero. Remember, the more you hear his voice, see him, the harder it becomes to let the attachment fade. You reinforce the bond every time you do. Whatever he states, pretend like he never said a word. The only thing you should be discussing is legal matters and your son.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Lost40 said:


> Thanks Mr Fisty, that is really helpful. Hopefully with this medicine, my mind will stop racing and I can focus on me. It makes sense what you say, I just need to get the motivation to put it in action.
> 
> I went to a pastoral minister yesterday, and he told me this ..."You have unbelievable dedication to your vows - you should be very proud of yourself, then he said something like - I wish more people were as serious about their vows as you are" - but I don't have that exactly right - it was something like that. So, when he told me that - of course it put me back into the tail spin of "Oh god, I need to keep up with this" and maybe going the church route is not the best idea.. because, they are all about saving the marriage. Which is where I thought I wanted to be, but at some point I have to accept their no saving it, I've done everything I could to save it.


That is truly a complement but there is much more to this...

1. Adultery = grounds for divorce biblically

2. Your husband is unwilling to reconcile

3. This means you are off the hook biblically Darlin'

Allow yourself to grieve the loss, move on with your life and stop looking for him to return. This work to reconcile is not on you. You need to take care of you and your son. The Lord binds up the wounds of the broken hearted. This is the path you need to be on. After you divorce... do not take him back.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Thank you Blossom and Fisty, I appreciate those posts - they help me. 

It kills me to know, that he is onto his "2nd or 3rd victim", and obviously feels so much in love with that person, that he can sit there and tell me how he has moved on, and I need to also. I think, that is why I'm sitting here telling myself, maybe I need to find a new guy friend to hang out with - obviously that helps, it helped him. BUT.... there is 3 differences, maybe more... but, 1. I'm not ready to be with another guy - there is zero interest in the idea of hanging out with another man right now, much less any sort of intimacy. 2. It wouldn't be fair to my son, right now he is young - and deserves his parents... both of them, but right now - he's got just me in the home, and I intend to spend it with him. Problem with this idea is, I'm not getting any younger. and 3. It's not fair to another guy, b/c I'm not emotionally ready, and I would feel like I was using him as a feel good/band-aid. 

BUT... sitting here watching my EX do it, and looking and listening to him tell me how happy he is, and how moved on he is - and knowing his situation with dating someone... tells me, it helps to be able to find someone to ease your loneliness. 

But don't worry... I'm not going to.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

He is lying... to himself.

Also... you are making the smartest move with your ladies group, getting strong on your own, THEN let than fabulous man walk into your life when you are ready. Don't envy the manipulator claiming his life is grande


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

He is a liar...You're right... he's proven that over and over... but somehow, I tend to believe the hurtful things. I think it was just the way he said it... "I don't want you back, ever... " and "I don't say this to hurt you, but I've moved on... you need to also".

For one - he had no real reason to say that to me... It wasn't like I was asking him to come home - infact, I think I've been doing a pretty good job of convincing him I am happy and he is nothing to me anymore.

I sure hope you're right... I know right now, I'm not at all interested in anyone - but I know me, and I know eventually I will want to share a special connection with someone - I just don't believe I'll ever have that again. I'm sure its my self-esteem talking. I'm starting to see the difference.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Lost40 said:


> He is a liar...You're right... he's proven that over and over... but somehow, I tend to believe the hurtful things. I think it was just the way he said it... "I don't want you back, ever... " and "I don't say this to hurt you, but I've moved on... you need to also".
> 
> For one - he had no real reason to say that to me... It wasn't like I was asking him to come home - infact, I think I've been doing a pretty good job of convincing him I am happy and he is nothing to me anymore.
> 
> I sure hope you're right... I know right now, I'm not at all interested in anyone - but I know me, and I know eventually I will want to share a special connection with someone - I just don't believe I'll ever have that again. I'm sure its my self-esteem talking. I'm starting to see the difference.


I thought my ex was all that and a box of chocolates at one time.... he has nothing on the depths my H has gone into my soul.

It's still really early in your healing... it will happen for sure.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Blossom Leigh said:


> I thought my ex was all that and a box of chocolates at one time.... he has nothing on the depths my H has gone into my soul.
> 
> It's still really early in your healing... it will happen for sure.


That helps, thank you. I think that is what I worry about... how do you possibly fall in love with someone else, when you were so in love and married to your supposedly "soul mate". Again, not that I'm ready... maybe that's why I think that, b/c it is early. Thanks for sharing that. That helps.


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

Lost, I wonder the same thing. Right now I am wondering how would I ever trust again? I can't imagine. Right now I am hanging on to the fact that I don't have to deal with it right now. I am not ready to get serious about anyone.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

BlueWoman said:


> Lost, I wonder the same thing. Right now I am wondering how would I ever trust again? I can't imagine. Right now I am hanging on to the fact that I don't have to deal with it right now. I am not ready to get serious about anyone.


Yes, that too - how would I ever trust, or get comfortable with that person or any of those things... Not to mention, having to worry about - being cheated on again, or worse - catching an STD from someone. Yikes... I can't imagine being in this position again at 40. 

We'll get through it... so they say!


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

We will. At least that's what everyone tells us.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Same exact thing happened to me, Blue. I was doing "OK" - not great, but I was certainly beginning to cope, accept it all little more every day... beginning to be able to go almost an entire day without thinking about him. 

Then Christmas.... and... that was the end. I went right back to this self-doubting, miserable, angry, hurt, jealous, blaming myself crying fool. You can see from my first post "date" - I posted 2 days after Christmas! lol

Problem is, now I'm stuck in this... and I don't know if its because, I'm talking myself into the fact that I was never truly over it in the first place or what the problem is. 

My therapist told me, that usually the 1 year mark is pretty tough... and the first Wedding Anniversary you're apart is tough. So, I'm trying to prepare for those... I've got awhile, several months - but I don't want another relapse --- thankfully the two dates are only a month and some change apart, so I'll get through them about the same time, lol!


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Triggers are normal Sweetie. They do get better... I Promise.

Cheering you and Blue on.... Be strong, practice kindness with yourself and those you love, especially the kids.


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

The way I finally pulled myself out of the funk was to keep myself really busy. I just worked not to give myself time to think. I joined a gym and I went almost daily for week (lost 4 pound that way) because while I was walking on the treadmill I wasn't really thinking about him. I pushed myself to go to every single social occasion. Because again, while I was talking to people I wasn't thinking about him. I just kept myself crazy busy. Now that I am out of the funk, I can spend time processing. Thinking about our relationship and what went wrong.

If I start thinking about him and OW I stop myself and remind myself it's not my concern. It's not my problem. Because in the end, I wouldn't take him back. I'd be crazy to take him back. I was so unhappy the last two years. And he's proven to be a cheat. I could never trust him again. I think that's it. Remembering that I could never trust him again. Than when I think about us getting back together, I realize that it wouldn't be the same as before because now I know what's he's capable of cheating. And with that in mind...that's not a life I want. 

So while my emotions aren't with my brain, they are in check in enough that my brain can lead for a moment. 

Oh and other things that are helping right now: flirting. I went out with some girl friends for happy hour and it was fun to have men flirting with us. None of it was serious, no numbers were exchanged, no kisses goodnight. But it was lighthearted fun, and it felt really good. 

I've also done some online dating sites. I haven't met a single guy but I am messaging a few and that feels fun too. And honestly if they ask me to coffee, I'll go. Because who knows? 

Oh and I talked to a guy the other night on the phone and he was crazy and I won't go to coffee with him (because he was crazy) but it felt good to have that control. To know that I had a choice again. 

Putting choices in my life is really helping.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Thanks Blossom, I'm counting on it getting easier... lol 

I can't WAIT for the day sports are over, 2 more games - tomorrow and next weekend. Because, I have to see him at these events, when he shows up - Of course the weekends he has son, which is this one - he goes and I have to see him. I think it will help a lot, when I don't have to worry about looking at him every weekend. 

I'm doing my best to just be very neutral and if we make eye contact, I just kind of smile a friendlier smile - and I choose to do this, because he just glares at me. Today, we locked eyes for about a good 3-5 seconds, as he was walking past me (I was already sitting on the benches) and he stared at me as he walked past, and I just looked him right back in the face and smiled. He just kept that sour look on his face, and kept walking. I have no idea what makes him think he has to act so callous. What is wrong with just being a decent person, and giving a friendly smile back? He wouldn't treat a stranger like he treats me, I can tell you that.

I've decided to be the bigger person, for one - I'm around parents of kids who goes to school with my son and I'm not going to sit there and act like a b!tch. I wish he would cut the crap. It's not like I'm sitting there trying to get him back or anything, I'm just trying to break that ice - so we can be around one another (in these situations) without having to feel like we need to win the meanest face contest. My son doesn't deserve that, he can tell.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Blue, that is great that you have that willpower! How did you get yourself to stay busy, when all you wanted to do was be in that funk? Did it eventually become a routine, that you were going to do this, that and this everyday? 

That is part of my problem, I can't get myself motivated to do anything. I'm thinking it is because depression set in and it manifested itself into full-blown depression. I'm hoping that this new medicine does the trick. 

I feel the same way as you, I know full well I would never trust him again. And if I did, it would take a lot of work from both of us and I know he wouldn't put the effort into doing that. He seems to clearly think, I still want him back (b/c he reminds me still, that I need to move on... and yes, I do - but as far as he knows - I have) and with him having this feeling of She'll take me back, he won't change. 

I have joined that meetup.com, did you do that? They have these get togethers in your area... there are several of them a month it seems for various things - and I get reminders and notifications, but I can't seem to get myself to go to any of them. I think I feel like I wouldn't fit in, or I'm ashamed of myself. Low self-esteem, I have it bad. 

My fear is, if I signed up for online dating sites, that no one would talk to me, and it would concrete the fear of I'll never find someone again. Because, I did have a friend try to set me up with one of her friends (double date) in November this happened. This was when I thought I was doing a little better (remember, it was Christmas that it went back downhill) and, it didn't go well. I felt like I was cheating on my husband, or being unfair to my son for going out with some other guy when I should be trying to get his Dad back (that is my mistake, I know). So, I really didn't do much, except compare him to my ex. I felt sorry for him, b/c I'm sure he was a nice guy... not that I was mean or standoffish, I'm not that way - but, I just wasn't showing interest in any way shape or form. LOL


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

The exercise I just forced myself to do it. The payoff was for the hour I was at the gym I didn't think about him. Trust me, someone will talk to you if you do online dating. They may not be who you are looking for, but someone will notice you. And for me, it helps to think that I am not looking for my next marriage. I would just like to go out for coffee and chat.


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## Jane139 (Jan 6, 2015)

Just remember that everyone who goes to meetup events or joins a group is also lonely and/or wanting to make friends or just be around people. They all went for the first time once too. I am kind of telling myself this as well as you, lol.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Lost, 

I would have given anything for my hub not to want to return to the marriage. I wished so much he had just stayed w the ow. 

Instead of him being the wrong, it all turned on me, I was the one who could not return to the marriage. I was the one who proved to be the one who couldnt be there in "the time of bad" of the marriage vow. I was the one painted as the one who didnt see any value in a almost 30 yr marriage to fight for. He will never forgive me for not fighting for the marriage. 
...and to top it off, he had become the perfect spouse, but his affair changed the heart, and when they come back, all the hurt, the broken soul, the broken life doesnt go away. You can try to rebuild, but nothing is ever the same, I wish so I were in your shoes... 

~sammy


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## FrustratedFL (May 18, 2011)

sammy3 said:


> Lost,
> I would have given anything for my hub not to want to return to the marriage. I wished so much he had just stayed w the ow.
> 
> Instead of him being the wrong, it all turned on me, I was the one who could not return to the marriage. I was the one who proved to be the one who couldnt be there in "the time of bad" of the marriage vow. I was the one painted as the one who didnt see any value in a almost 30 yr marriage to fight for. He will never forgive me for not fighting for the marriage.
> ...


Once the trust is broken it is very hard to rebuild. Infidelity is a deal breaker in many marriages. No matter how sorry the person was. Trust is broken and is impossible to get back to the way you were. For some a new life can be created with a cheater after forgiveness and time, but never back to the same life.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Thats the risk a WS takes. Reconciliation is never a guarantee from the traumatized BS.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Jane, lol.. Are you going to try to go to some as well? I wish you the best with that. I want to, I talked a friend into joining up and looking at what is around - maybe we'll find something to join together.

Sammy - was your EX the one who left? At what point did he act like he wanted to come home? Prior to this, did he file for divorce, and say "never coming back"? 

My problem is, he filed for divorce - and sounds pretty damn convincing that it's over. I have to act like I don't care of course when he says it... kind of like a "Good, I know" kind of response. Personally I wish I was more like you... I wish I could have that no interest in reconciling thought. It's getting there... I think I'm starting to feel more and more like I believe what I'm saying. Because, I do believe in my head that I wouldn't be happy, I'd never trust him, etc. But my heart says... you still love him.

I need to reach a point where I don't want him back 100%. Am I still in the right amount of time, or should I be definitely NOT wanting him back at this point (6 mos.)? I'm see-sawing now.. it's not a definite, but there is definitely a sense of "I wish we could try to work out our issues through MC"

I think my therapist has it right... Do you miss the person, or do you miss the companionship? If I had companionship, I think he wouldn't be a second thought. Yet, at the same time - I'm no where near ready for that.

My first divorce support group is tonight. I'm going to give it a try... I don't have to go back, if I don't like it - but I should give it a try.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Lost, 

Good for you on the support group !!! I sure wish I had. I had to go thur everything alone, as at 6 months I wasnt even able to deal with reality yet. 

Lost, my hub had an affair at our 28th yr in our what I really thought to be a well adjusted happy long term marriage. My whole world as you know yourself, changed over night. I lost all hats at once, son left, mom died, dad 94, & hub changed our story. My complete security and identity was tied to this one man. 

I knew the second he confessed our marriage was doomed.((for me)) He immediately realized what he was losing and has been very remoresful, not from the very beginning, but now, going into almost 4 yrs, the perfect spouse in all ways, except we dont live together, we share no intimacy. 

There will always be 3 of us in my marriage bc it will always be different now, bc I really liked what I had, not what I have now, but like I wrote earlier, I am painted as the "bad guy" in the bad part of "in good times and bad..." 

I often struggle with, when someone shows you who they are, should we really should believe them? I dunno myself at times... 

If your son were with a women who treated him and said words to him what you are recieving from your spouse, what would you would tell him? To listen? to make a decision? 

Believe me... you are just starting the journey... it's a long road, some of us just do better than others, but it's always changing, if one thing, you learn, ...it's to live in the present.

~sammy


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## FrustratedFL (May 18, 2011)

Lost - When a person shows you who they REALLY are, believe them. - Maya Angelou

I like this saying because it is so true. I, like you, believed for a long time I would reconcile and that our marriage would get back on track despite the nasty comments and the cheating. 

With time, I started seeing him for who he REALLY was and I could not see me ever being married to the man again. Now, I can barely look at him or converse without being repulsed. 

You will turn the corner and detach further everyday. Support groups are great and will help you. Keep up the good work.


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## Jane139 (Jan 6, 2015)

I guess everyone has their own timeframe. Personally, I have been separated just two months and already know the relationship is over and done with, except for legalities. It makes me sad, as we were married for a very long time, but unhappy for several of those. I feel like I already spent too many unhappy years. Maybe I will not be ecstatic on my own, but at least it won't be due to someone else's behavior.

I have started meeting old girlfriends for drinks/dinner this past week and have plans this week too. I really look forward to these evenings. My husband did not like the idea of me doing this and I feel lucky that they are willing to make time for me now, when I was so out of commission for so long. I may try to go to a group of some type if I find I have too much "down time" alone, though right now I am really enjoying my solitude...books, my cat, my new apartment, Netflix, etc. Being alone is very underrated.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Still trucking along here... seems the medicine helps keep me somewhat level minded, I haven't really cried in about a week. Sometimes I get to the point where "I think I want to cry" - and then, like 5 minutes later, it's like What was I going to cry about again? I don't know if that's a good thing or not. lol. I still desperately miss him, and wish like hell none of this ever happened - but, it did. And, all I can do is keep trucking along. I don't know whats right, and whats wrong anymore. I feel like if I was more self-confident and had a higher self-esteem I would be a lot further along. I've made a concrete decision, that I'm not even going to think about dating for at least 6 more months, which will put me at 1 year. I will re-examine the thought then. Until then, I'm not even going to worry about it. Not that I want to date now, but I've been stressing on the "what-if's". Easier said then done, but that is what I'm telling myself currently.

Our next court date is fast approaching next week. I'm worried about it, I don't want to go... Thankfully it's not the "final" one, so I've got more time to worry about that one. I have no idea how I'll handle that one, where the judge slams the hammer "Marriage is void" or whatever they say. I have a feeling I will cry, and just be a mess that day. 

I went to the support group, and I think I enjoyed myself. I had a sense of peace while there, it was quite interesting. I participated in discussion when asked, or when I felt I had something to add. I was the youngest - Most women were in their 50's, maybe 60. That was interesting, I was expecting most to be my age or younger. I felt great sorrow for everyone, because of course their marriages were quite a bit longer than mine... I think 30+ years... and here, I am struggling over almost 14 years. I don't know if it will help if I keep going or not. They all seemed to be a little further along than I am, as far as "when" they were separated/divorced... and yet - there they were, having a hard time with it. So, I don't know how I feel about that. I was hoping I'd be further along by now, of course. Granted, I will keep going... I will give it another week or two before I make a final decision.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Be patient with your recovery. It will take as long as it takes. 

I had an attorney tell me one time that it takes about three years post divorce to regain a new consistent norm emotionally.

It will ebb and flow. And that's ok


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Because of your pleaser nature, you have taught yourself to be that way for a long time. Years of reinforcement. Naturally you would feel lost. It takes time to teach yourself new ways of behaving, and thinking. In terms of bdsm, you were the submissive, and he was your dominant. Now that dynamic is gone, and your trying to figure out how to be a submissive without a dominant. It is not him that you really miss, but the dynamic of the relationship. It was who you are, it is how you know yourself to be, and now you have to learn how to be something else, which can be fear inducing. You imagine the worse, and you cause your own anxiety. You have a mental block that is preventing you from moving on.

Don't worry about the future, not entirely. Just focus on the little steps of where you want to be. The more confidence you gain, and the more investment you put into yourself, less, and less of that mental block will be a factor.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

I have "pre trial" court tomorrow, I feel like I want to get sick. I don't even know what I'm doing. This is all such a nightmare. Today was my sons last basketball game, so that will end seeing the ex or worrying about seeing him on a weekly basis. I think that will help, or will it?

When will I stop looking at him and still being physically attracted to him? He looked good today and that made me mad. I kept getting this feeling he was looking at me when we were outside and I looked over in his direction to see if I was right and he was. So I looked away and then like a minute later looked over again and he was still looking at me... So I finally said "how are you?" I didn't know what to do or say.

He just shrugged his shoulders and kind of nodded his head ... Might've said okay. I don't think I really cared, just felt like I needed to say something. He didn't ask me anything and kind of turned away after that.... So I walked away and didn't turn back again.

I'll see him tomorrow... Makes me ill. He will intimidate me, like last time. When my attorney is talking he stares me down and makes comments asking me if I'm serious.


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

Ugh. Fingers cross for you tomorrow. If you have to look at him, look at him down your nose. (Even if you don't feel it.) And every time he says are you serious think in your mind "yes, as a matter of fact I am." 

I kind of regret getting divorced so soon. If I were getting divorced now, I would take so much more. POS doesn't deserve half of what he got, and I kind of resent it. So let your lawyer do the talking. They are much meaner than we are, and he deserves it. 

Still I'll be thinking about you tomorrow.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

You'll be ok. He's used to bullying you, just remember to think about how pathetic he is every time he looks at you and how little he was willing to throw his life away over. Sure he'll find wh0res to bang but he's going to have a very difficult time replacing you. That's why I still think he'll be back when he's had his fun and realizes he has to support himself. Keep thinking about what a sad, pathetic man he is.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

I hear you Blue.. the first time we went to settlement, I was still in la la land over him, more than I am now anyway - and, I gave him too much time with son... I regret that now, and now have to fight to get it back. So, what you said makes sense. I do have to fight for what I deserve in this, and not feel bad about it.

Lifestooshort, I like to think he will have a hard time replacing me, I truly believe that - I am so disgusted by what he must come up with and tell people about me. I can't imagine having to come up with such lies and stick to them - when I was who I was to him and he has to know that. He is still in this, I am the victim stage though, he truly feels like a victim. I think he always will.


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## FrustratedFL (May 18, 2011)

Good luck today in court. I am glad you will not have to see him at games. This will help you detach more. 

My ex plays the victim all the time and wants people to feel sorry for him. Although he cheated, abandoned his child and lied to everyone, he feels he is the victim. he claims I am keeping his child from him, he has no money since he got screwed in divorce, I set him up to fail, he has all the debt and that I purposely stole chunks of money. nothing further from the truth.

My therapist said that most times cheaters who take the victim role are deflecting there own emotions. They cannot take accountability so the guilt eats them up and they deflect it by playing victim and fabricating lies to benefit himself.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Lost, you have a huge capacity for love, you really do. Your husband is not deserving of your love. The next person you find should cherish the amount of love you can offer them, and try their best to reciprocate.

You have to believe more positively about yourself. Your psyching yourself out with an unknown future. If you want success, you need the mindset to succeed, and the confidence that comes along with it.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Thank you all for thinking of me during court yesterday, I got through it - and it wasn't as bad as I imagined it would be - the judge just talked to attorneys basically - I didn't have to say anything, except once I had to say Yes ma'am, and I forget what I was answering now.. that is how nervous I was. LOL.

My attorney is awesome, she goes above and beyond I think her call of duty - not only is she my attorney, she plays a psychologist as well. Letting me know, Yes you are divorcing your husband and that is hard to do no matter what kind of marriage you had, but look at who he is - and how he treated you, that isn't a husband. I don't know your husband, but I can tell just from the time I have known you both - you deserve better. Then she started telling me about real husbands.. and real husbands, rope the moon for you. They don't make you feel like everything is your fault, and they don't cheat on you, and so on and so forth.

So...that is what happened. We got our "date" for final trial/hearing/the end - and that is 90 days away... long time, but that is what happens I guess.

EX acts like a different person at court... when attorney and I walked in, he was sitting on a chair waiting for his attorney, and he acts all nice and polite - saying hello, how are you to my attorney.. then looks at me, and says Hi there. Yet, just 2 days ago - he completely ignored me, and acted like I wasn't there when we ran into each other at our sons game. Then we got stuck sitting in the hallway waiting for our turn, and our attorneys were off having a discussion about something, and I just kind of put my head down, and sat patiently waiting - kept my head down, so he didn't think I was interested in looking at him - and he walks up to me, and starts trying to have a conversation.

:scratchhead:


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

He was putting on an act for the attorneys and anyone else that might be observing. Many people do that when they're in court. They try to look like they are reasonable people instead of the jerks they really are.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Yep...

I think I would have quipped back "nice try"

then blew him off


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## FrustratedFL (May 18, 2011)

My ex showed up in court the day of divorce final. I was shocked since he never showed up for anything before and did not have lawyer. He acted so nice to me and was very polite to my attorney and judge. The key word is "ACTED". The week prior I got a nasty email from him calling my lawyer a C**T and very nasty comments about me.

After the divorce was final, he actually waited for me to ride down the elevator and wanted to go get a drink. I just turned and said, Won't your woman of the month be looking for you to celebrate with her?" 

He left in a huff. Now he wants to be friends after all the bull**** I put up with for the last 5 years. I don't need those type of friends...


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

I can't believe they put on an act like that... I wish I would've known that - I would've just kept walking. I thought, Oh look he wants to be nice. Stupid me. I'm still in I love him mode though, are you sure I'm not way past my time of being like this? I feel like I should be.

I have been having dreams... where we "run into each other" since the divorce, and we fall in love, and have a kiss of some type. I don't know why I dream like that... but, it's keeping me holding on I think. Then I usually wake up with my teeth so clenched tight, that it literally hurts to open my mouth. My jaw has been sore for days now - b/c the past week I've been doing this. I think I've cracked a filling too from doing it because I've had a toothache/sensitive to cold.

I did forget one thing... I noticed in the corner of my eye - that he kept leaning way back in his seat in court yesterday - I never looked over at him, but I'm wondering now if he was trying to give me a look to scare me. I doubt it, but I did notice several times him doing that - it was obvious enough that I caught it in the corner of my eye.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Frustrated, Oh... Friends? Is that a new thing now, or has he been wanting that for awhile? 

Good for you, for having the strength to tell him off like you did after Divorce court! I Wish I had that strength, maybe come May I will!

:smthumbup: Good for you, I admire your all's strength!


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Dating might help. Once you level off more, Going out and creating new attachments will diminish your attachment for him. Your anxiety and fear makes you hold on longer. Your reinforcing thoughts that you will not get over him, and you start believing it, even though logically, it is not true. You have to change your mindset.

If I went everyday thinking that I was worthless, eventually I will act that way. You have to positively reinforce yourself. Dating may help in the sense that it shows you, you can form new connections again. That in turn may help you eventually get into another relationship.

It is a conscious effort to think and behave differently. You hardwire yourself slowly into the person that you want to be more like. It is a slow process. Positive people get sick less, and have a better immune system. Depressed people often get sick easier. I work with depressive people, and this winter alone, I had the flu three times.

When you build up your self-confidence, and you prove to yourself that you do not need him, then are you capable of moving on. You should not worry about moving on at the moment. Just work on your self-confidence. One day you would say to yourself, I can't believe that I let someone like that have power over me.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Thanks Fisty,

I go into therapist today, and I have one thing only to talk about - build up my self-esteem, and self-confidence. If he can't, I go find someone else. At this point, it's been entirely too long for him to not have some better way for me to move on. I think he see's me as a regular client who willingly comes once a week since August, and thinks - heck I'll keep this going, why not.

I'm tired of being this way. I definitely know we are over, and I definitely know at this point - I could never take him back b/c of the level of hurt and trust he has put me through --- but, I still have that stupid, self-doubting. 

I'm tired of the headaches that I wake up with everyday, and now the toothaches... I have a raccoon in my garage that won't get out - this morning, and that is adding to the stress... lol


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## FrustratedFL (May 18, 2011)

Lost - it is perfectly normal to still feel love for your STBX. It takes a long time to detach and some people take longer than others. I have heard that at the 3 yr mark most divorced people move on. I am at the 3 yr mark now from separation and 7 months from final divorce.

I still have days where my anger flares from having to communicate with ex or when his mistress turned gf emails me or posts on fb but those situation are less and less. 

I started a profile on an online dating site and am starting to talk to a few guys in my area. So far, it is fun. 

I am hoping one day my ex and I can be friendly towards each other but for now there is too much hurt and betrayal that is still surfaced for me to accept a friendship with him or his mistress. 

maybe one day.... maybe not!


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Thanks FL... It's getting there... I am starting to slowly see more improvement each day. I'm lonely, but - I am definitely detaching from him. He has been so nasty - even more so, these past few days - and it's just like a huge reality check. I can't believe someone who brought all this on themselves, can sit there and convince himself it is all my fault. The fact that he can do that, is showing me - that, this is who he was all along, and I never saw it.

I'm the one who was betrayed - and I don't think I've been anything other than civil, despite a few times where I mouthed off to him, in reply to something nasty he said to me. But usually, it's the truth and the truth hurts... I've never gotten nasty on a personal level, like he does to me. 

I think I've mentioned this in the past... about a month or two, after he left - he tried to say things like "I want to be friends", "I'd love to have sex with you" - and stupid crap like that... and I'm trying to now ask myself... If I was really the bad person in all of this, would he have wanted those things from me? I don't think he would've. So, that is helping me realize, that I wasn't the "fault" for this... if I was, I don't think he would've wanted those things.

That is what I struggle with the most... "What did I do to cause this?"


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Lost, before I say this please know that in no way are you responsible for your ex's crappy behavior. Having said that, if you're evaluating things you could've done differently I'd say that by acting like such a doormat for him you helped create the entitled monster you got. Do you know why he thinks this is your fault? Because you trained him to expect to to be a doormat, so when you made him choose he was blindsided. He called your bluff because he figured you'd fold, and when you didn't his plans fell apart. That's why he's angry. You taught him how to treat you and when you finally stood up he was unprepared. Please don't let this happen again.

You are right though in that he was always like this, you were too busy kissing his arse to notice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

He was always this dysfunctional person. It just escalated when he was in a marriage with you. Example of this is an abuser and their victim. It starts off small, and if the victim does not stop the abuse but lets it continue, the abuse will escalate. From verbal abuse, to possible physical abuse. The abuser always had this dysfunction about themselves, but the victim allows the abuse to escalate because they have allowed themselves to be beaten down.

Lifeistooshort is correct in saying that you help escalate his entitled persona, the other side of that is that he help make your pleaser side as strong as well. You were ready to hand over the family business to him, but lets say it was the beginning of your marriage, and you found out that he cheated on you, the chances of that happening is a lot lower. You both reinforce each others bad qualities.

The difference is your more self aware, and willing to grow as a person from all of this. Remember, my abuse help made me a person with severe anger issues. I have learned to manage anger pretty well in a healthy manner. I haven't had an episode of rage in over five years.

When you learn to value yourself, and raise your self-esteem, you will be capable of keeping strong boundaries. With that new strength that you have gained, you will also be able to level consequences against someone who pushes your boundaries. Also, learn to detach emotionally from a given situation to evaluate the picture more clearly. As your detaching, your picking up on things that you have not noticed before, and the information is easier to process. I learned to do this through meditation.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

This is probably very true... I without knowing it, created someone who thought they had it all and some. So, in his mind - I am the b?tch because I took my doormat away from him? But, this doesn't make me a bad person - right? I mean I know that sounds so stupid, asking that... But - I'm so stuck on this feeling of, really really hating the fact that he puts the blame on me for all of this. Drives me insane, but my therapist said he probably always will. I hate that though.




lifeistooshort said:


> Lost, before I say this please know that in no way are you responsible for your ex's crappy behavior. Having said that, if you're evaluating things you could've done differently I'd say that by acting like such a doormat for him you helped create the entitled monster you got. Do you know why he thinks this is your fault? Because you trained him to expect to to be a doormat, so when you made him choose he was blindsided. He called your bluff because he figured you'd fold, and when you didn't his plans fell apart. That's why he's angry. You taught him how to treat you and when you finally stood up he was unprepared. Please don't let this happen again.
> 
> You are right though in that he was always like this, you were too busy kissing his arse to notice.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Mr. Fisty -- I see what you're saying... that makes sense. I sat there and allowed him to twist everything to make it my fault, and I allowed it. I totally allowed it, infact it seems from what I'm learning about myself through talking and therapy, is that I also encouraged it. But - he was still wrong for taking advantage - right? I mean, if I sit there and allow something, am I wrong for finally saying - No! I draw the line here!? I still gave him plenty of opportunity to seek counseling and to work things out, and he never would. He was too busy pouting.

Yes, I remember your story, and it helps me to think of you growing into a stronger person from that. I want to see myself grow like you did.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Think of him as a bratty, tantrum throwing toddler. You, after years of making everything about his highness, put a boundary in place. He, after your entire marriage being about him, went into full tantrum mode. Of course you're not a bad person, you're a terrific person. Never forget what this dirtbag threw away for a "friend".

You mark my words, he will lose his mind when you start dating because his doormat will be gone. Nobody is going to kiss his pathetic arse like you did and hopefully you're done. Without you he'll either grow up or fall apart.

Next time he boo hoos about his life you know what you say? "Your FRIEND was an expensive fvck wasn't she",
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NewLife2017 (Aug 16, 2014)

Hi Lost40,

I have been following your thread and am REALLY pulling for you. I am so very sorry this has happened.

Our situations are different but alike in one big way. Boundaries. I have been married almost 23 years and have drawn my line in the sand and moved it often. The last 2 years have been h$ll. My H is passive aggressive. Everything is wonderful as long as I don't ask anything of him. Then it's a nightmare. Silent treatment, pouting and an explosive temper if I push him far enough. Not violent but yelling and then back to silent. PA's can make you think you have lost your mind.

The last 2 years I have been setting boundaries and following them through. If his behavior is really bad, I do the 180. I don't apply all of them, but I use the ones that work for me and those spur him to action. It's helped a lot. 

Like you, I had to learn to deal with my H in a different way. A more healthy way at least for me. Actually, a few months ago I pinpointed the first time I let my boundary slide. We were dating and I wanted to wait until I knew which direction our relationship was going before I met his mom and dad. He picked me up for a date and took me directly to meet them. Instead of being outraged, I was actually flattered that he cared so much he wanted me to meet his parents. Yep, dumba$$ move on my part. Well, you can imagine how it went from there.

I guess what I'm trying to say that this is not your fault. We are givers and want those we love to be happy. Unfortunately, that usually means at our expense. While the last 2 years of my marriage have been rocky, I have regained my self respect. And you are on your way there too. We both made mistakes and we learned from them. Just took awhile. We both pulled our doormats out from under us and said the line is drawn and we are not moving an inch ever again. I think you are one of the bravest people on TAM. Please keep posting as I see you gain strength and enlightenment with each post.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Lost40 said:


> Mr. Fisty -- I see what you're saying... that makes sense. I sat there and allowed him to twist everything to make it my fault, and I allowed it. I totally allowed it, infact it seems from what I'm learning about myself through talking and therapy, is that I also encouraged it. But - he was still wrong for taking advantage - right? I mean, if I sit there and allow something, am I wrong for finally saying - No! I draw the line here!? I still gave him plenty of opportunity to seek counseling and to work things out, and he never would. He was too busy pouting.
> 
> Yes, I remember your story, and it helps me to think of you growing into a stronger person from that. I want to see myself grow like you did.



Of course he is wrong for taking advantage, he made himself superior in his mind over you. That is on him. If he were a better person, he would nurture you to be a stronger person. It is his character flaw. He lacks empathy where you have an abundance of it. If he were down, you would try and raise him up.

He blames you for his anger, but it is him that is responsible for his own emotions. Emotions are a trained response. Someone else in his situation could of responded with guilt for his actions. You cannot make someone feel the way they do not want to feel. The dalai Lama was tortured and beaten, and his response for his torturer is that he feels sorry for them that they are the way they are. My cousin is a martial artist and a marine, and when he fights in against any opponent, he has to control his anger response. It would make him act impulsively if he did not, and break his concentration.

Emotions are not a bad thing. It allows you to respond to a situation. Anger is quite useful in a fight or flight situation. Emotions are only negative when it leads to an irrational response. You can use the anger that you feel towards him to stand up for yourself, reinforce your boundaries, and use it to detach further from him. You can use anger in a healthy way. Emotions are just reactions to certain stimulu.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Thank you life, I actually picture him as a brat throwing a temper tantrum, I believe I even told my mom that is what I pictured him doing. Thank you for saying I am a terrific person, I appreciate that. 

I am definitely done kissing his .... In fact, did I mention he told me to kiss his ass several times a few days ago? He said it like 2 or 3 times ... for no reason, I wasn't even being difficult, I was just answering his stupid questions and when I was done, he told me that. 

I don't ever see him trying to come back, or anything. I'm afraid if he does, what I would do ... I don't want to start this pain all over again. So, hopefully he won't.



lifeistooshort said:


> Think of him as a bratty, tantrum throwing toddler. You, after years of making everything about his highness, put a boundary in place. He, after your entire marriage being about him, went into full tantrum mode. Of course you're not a bad person, you're a terrific person. Never forget what this dirtbag threw away for a "friend".
> 
> You mark my words, he will lose his mind when you start dating because his doormat will be gone. Nobody is going to kiss his pathetic arse like you did and hopefully you're done. Without you he'll either grow up or fall apart.
> 
> ...


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Newlife, Thank you for your kind post - I appreciate what you said. I feel so lucky to have found TAM, and will forever be grateful. I've been very selfish in the time and space I take up, my thread is now 25 pages long - but, it's very therapeutic to be able to have a place I feel comfortable coming to and being given great advice, even some that have slapped me into reality - which I need at times!

My ex was extremely passive aggressive, and also a narcissist I believe. You literally had to walk on egg shells around him about certain things. 

I'm glad to hear you are gaining back your self-respect - that is terrific. Sometimes I wish I would've found this place before he moved out - I often wonder, if that would've changed anything...


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Mr Fisty - thank you, again it all makes sense. When is that anger going to come and stay? I would like it too. I seem to not hold much anger, I never really have though... I'm not one to hold a grudge is another of my biggest problems. I've always found it to be a waste of energy... but this time... I really would like it to stick around. When I feel that anger, I feel myself detaching.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

You do not always need the anger, you can just use it in a healthy way. Other ways of detaching is going out there and enjoying life, even though you do not feel like it at times. Creating a new life such as friends, new places to eat and socialize, things of that nature. Time is also another ally, you learn to live without someone.

Don't worry about the amount of pages, it is what it is.


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

Lost40 said:


> I've been very selfish in the time and space I take up, my thread is now 25 pages long - but, it's very therapeutic to be able to have a place I feel comfortable coming to and being given great advice, even some that have slapped me into reality - which I need at times!


Just wanted to say, I think you should stop feeling selfish about sharing your grief. 
For one thing, it's not like you are taking something from someone else. It's a choice everyone has to read and respond. 

Also, your sharing your grief has been so helpful to me. You express things that I feel, but haven't put to words. And knowing I'm not alone means the world. 

I wish you didn't have to be in pain to bring me comfort, but you should know, that knowing I'm not unique in this pain makes it more bearable. 

Also it's pretty exciting to see the emotional progress you are making.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Lost40 said:


> Thank you life, I actually picture him as a brat throwing a temper tantrum, I believe I even told my mom that is what I pictured him doing. Thank you for saying I am a terrific person, I appreciate that.
> 
> I am definitely done kissing his .... In fact, did I mention he told me to kiss his ass several times a few days ago? He said it like 2 or 3 times ... for no reason, I wasn't even being difficult, I was just answering his stupid questions and when I was done, he told me that.
> 
> I don't ever see him trying to come back, or anything. I'm afraid if he does, what I would do ... I don't want to start this pain all over again. So, hopefully he won't.


His disrespect is disgusting to me. The first thought that went through my mind, as I thought about what it would be like if it had been me he was repeatedly instructing to kiss his a$$, was "you say that to me one more time Darlin and I will put my boot so hard and far up your a$$ you will be removing your tonsils from between my toes." That kind of disrespect gets me riled quick. You need to come spend a week with me OP. Lol... He will not recognize the new you.

I too used to have the problem of very little to no anger. Couldn't get angry or stay angry. Not so much anymore.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Thank you Bluewoman (Hugs)

Blossom, I would love to come spend a week with you and get a complete mental makeover! lol


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Come on! My door is open anytime


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

I need help... I am an emotional mess right now, and have been all bad day. I am so tired of my heart not catching up to my brain. I honestly feel like I'm drowning in this big lake and everyone is standing there watching, telling me - I'll be okay just keep trying. Yes, it helps - the motivation and encouragement. I just feel like, I need more.

I honestly feel like my brain is definitely caught up and knows what the hell. But my heart is keeping me victim to this, and won't even let up just a little bit. I was doing better, I started feeling better these last several weeks - but, I found out some thing today, and it's just thrown me right back in the deep end and I'm tired of swimming. I'm not suicidal at all, that isn't what I mean.

So, I get a text from husband - telling me he is going to the college he graduated from. A seminary. If you all remember, he was going to be a Priest. It's 4 hours away, and he hasn't been there in years. Probably 10 years. It is a gorgeous place to go, beautiful grounds tucked away. What is making this painful is, he proposed to me there. Telling me, this was the place he decided that being a Priest wasn't on his "to-do" list anymore, that he was meant to be a husband and a father - and that I was the one he wanted to be with for the rest of his life. 

Why in the hell is he going there? All it is, is a big church/school and place where Monks live and teach. He told me he needed "quiet time" before his job starts. I have a feeling he is taking his new girlfriend there, and I am just absolutely blown away by this. I feel like it's the first day I found out all over again.

He won't pay me child support this week, because he needs the money to go there I guess. He asked if he could stop paying for a few weeks, until his paychecks start. I said no I simply can't afford that. And he's not paying anyway. So... again... I'm nothing anymore to him. He takes his new girlfriend (I think) to the place he proposed to me, and stops paying me all in the same weekend.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Lost40 said:


> I need help... I am an emotional mess right now, and have been all bad day. I am so tired of my heart not catching up to my brain. I honestly feel like I'm drowning in this big lake and everyone is standing there watching, telling me - I'll be okay just keep trying. Yes, it helps - the motivation and encouragement. I just feel like, I need more.
> 
> I honestly feel like my brain is definitely caught up and knows what the hell. But my heart is keeping me victim to this, and won't even let up just a little bit. I was doing better, I started feeling better these last several weeks - but, I found out some thing today, and it's just thrown me right back in the deep end and I'm tired of swimming. I'm not suicidal at all, that isn't what I mean.
> 
> ...


Just further proof of the ass that he truly is. He told you this just to upset you, there was no reason to share this with you.

Shift your view on this, try to be glad that you are nothing to him any more, because this man is clearly not worthy of having you or being in your life. Hugs to you.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

I don't understand how someone so religious and into his faith, that he goes to a Seminary for the weekend - can do this! It is so against the churches teachings, to divorce in the first place - much less in the manner he is doing it - and, he's going to go there and do what exactly? Tell his new girlfriend that she is now the one?

He obviously thinks he is OK with God... why else would he go there. Maybe he is... maybe I'm the one who has it all wrong, maybe it's okay to just up and leave your wife for another woman b/c God tells you too. Hell I don't know anymore.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

The taking his girlfriend there is MY idea.. he didn't tell me that. He just told me he was going there... He said he was going alone, but - I know better. Because when he proposed to me, he took me to a little place back in the woods, a statue of Mary with a meditation garden and said he'd go back there and pray, and he said he always knew when he found the right woman, this is where he would propose. 

So, I'm sure that is what he is doing.... When I questioned if "she" was going, he ignored me. I shouldn't of asked, but I did... because he asked if he could stop paying me for 3 weeks, so I asked him why - and wanted an explanation more than I got. He ignored it.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Lost40 said:


> The taking his girlfriend there is MY idea.. he didn't tell me that. He just told me he was going there... He said he was going alone, but - I know better. Because when he proposed to me, he took me to a little place back in the woods, a statue of Mary with a meditation garden and said he'd go back there and pray, and he said he always knew when he found the right woman, this is where he would propose.
> 
> So, I'm sure that is what he is doing....


You dont KNOW that is what he is doing. But you know what? It doesnt matter anyway. He is no longer your responsibility, problem, or business. Detach yourself, he doesnt matter any more.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

He knows I am in serious pain right now... he has to know that. He has known me way too long, to know that I would be "moved on, and okay with this" -- I'm not a hard book to read, I've always shown emotion and allowed things to hurt me easily. So why is he okay with this? I mean, personally if I thought I was hurting someone like that, I couldn't live with myself.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

I know you're right... he isn't my problem anymore... I should be glad to be rid of someone so willing to hurt my feelings and more. Ugh... that is why I'm tired of this. Because the brain and heart don't get in the same rythm.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Trust your brain. Don't trust your heart. 

This takes time. A lot of time. There is just no fast way to get over a broken heart.


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

He's an jerk. But you know what I find offensive...I find it offensive that he even asked if could not pay child support. 

It's not like you can just stop feeding your son because he wants a little vacation. How selfish!

I already know you know it's none of your business what he's doing. But it doesn't stop the heart from hurting and I'm sorry.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Time heals all wounds... I keep trying to remind myself of that. I have a feeling my reaction today, the crying - yelling, hitting anything soft (bed, pillows, couch) that wouldn't break (lol) - is the anger I've been wondering about and worrying if it would ever come. I need to let this anger continue, I don't want it to stop... I have a feeling its what I need to allow and need to have. I have no right to be treated this way - no right at all. No one does. 

Is it true that crying really helps? If it does, this afternoon alone should've shaved off a month or more of healing. 

He is truly offensive. I hate him, and I hate what he has done to me, and my son.



I have no idea when I'll get paid - I'm sure he'll pay me double next week for fear I will report him or something, but - the fact that he just does what he wants, when he wants - is what offends me. It's the principle of the thing. He is disrespecting me, and our son by not paying. Thankfully, I don't live paycheck to paycheck right now, Thankfully I have a little extra coming in right now - but, as far as he knows (well, thats the problem - he knows better - he knows I cant survive on the little bit I get from him) - I am living paycheck to paycheck and he said SO WHAT!


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Thanks for being here, I really needed a place to vent.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

So why are you still kissing his arse where the payments are concerned? He may want to live like a single guy with cheap wh0res but you have a son to support. Report him and let the courts deal with it, and stop engaging him. Part of the reason he behaves like this is because you lay down and take it.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Just use the anger in a healthy manner. You should probably get a punching bag instead. It will help relieve the built up tension.

Since your dealing with a narcissist, his image is really important to him. You can use that to your advantage. An example of this is posting that he is a dead beat dad who does not support his own child. Post it where your friends and family can see it. Report him as you have posted. Put pressure on him. Your not caring to deal with playing nice, your fighting for what he owes you. Be smart about it though. He cannot do anything if you spread factual information out there.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Mr.Fisty said:


> Just use the anger in a healthy manner. You should probably get a punching bag instead. It will help relieve the built up tension.
> 
> Since your dealing with a narcissist, his image is really important to him. You can use that to your advantage. An example of this is posting that he is a dead beat dad who does not support his own child. Post it where your friends and family can see it. Report him as you have posted. Put pressure on him. Your not caring to deal with playing nice, your fighting for what he owes you. Be smart about it though. He cannot do anything if you spread factual information out there.


Mr. Fisty is right. Image is even more important to him then many narcissists because deep down he knows he's a pos. I've seen this before, have an uncle like this. Makes up lies about his career on social media (when he's never actually had a real job and has an online PhD) because he knows he's a pos and is terrified that others might know it too. 

If you really start standing up to him I think you'l be surprised at how quickly he folds.....he'll throw an initial tantrum and then fold because the only Lost he knows how to deal with is one that rolls over for him. You can do it.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

I feel like I did stand up to him. I told him not paying me was unacceptable, and he needed to bring it by midnight tonight because I couldn't afford to go without. But he just laughs I'm sure and says "I told you I was busy, I'm sure you'll manage until then" - whatever that meant.

I just wrote back, telling him I was done being disrespected and that he was a hateful person. But he never replied. I have no control... the only thing I could do is, report it to court - and what will that do? I fear getting him in trouble, I don't want to cause problems.. but, I honestly just wish he would realize that I don't, and do the same for me.

If it doesn't come Sunday when he brings son home, I will tell him I'll let my attorney know and see what he does.. I should probably start there, with a verbal threat.

I honestly don't know how to stand up to him, I mean - I'm not nice to him, I don't say to him "Oh okay, thats fine - pay whenever" - I said No, unacceptable - Bring it tonight by midnight.

He won't..


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Thankfully come final court date, he will start paying me through the state again... I hope. It started out that way, until he complained that he was paying too much, which only resulted in him paying more... but to save on whatever fees they take out, he asked if he could pay me directly. I didn't think it would be a problem, but my god. It still is a court order though, I know that for a fact. It's on court paper he has to pay X amount weekly.

I would love to post on social media (facebook) or whatever else and talk negative about him, but - what does that make me look like? No one I know does that... lol


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Make sure you document all of these instances where he argues about paying you, and doesnt pay. It shows his irresponsibility and lack of concern for his child.


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## Myfault123 (Dec 26, 2014)

Dear Lost, I have read your entire thread, although my circumstances are different, I too, have found it very difficult to let my H go.

In the beginning I obsessed over everything, his whereabouts, what is he doing etc to the point that I would be an emotional wreck for hours, sometimes for days as I keep thinking about it.

In the last few days I have began to tell myself, every time I get emotional and tearful about my divorce, 'I will be okay, why do you want to be with someone who does not want you?' It stops me in my tracks for a little while and it stops the What ifs.

I have now come to a place where I know I can not change the past, what is done is done. It does not stop the hurt and pain but it gives me pockets of peace and calm.

I still think and obsess about H and if he is with OW etc but I ask myself Byron Katie's question' Can you absolutely know that it’s true? (Yes or no)' the answer is usually no and that helps me to stop the over thinking.

It is very hard to let go, I think about H all the time. HUGS to you.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

3Xnocharm said:


> Make sure you document all of these instances where he argues about paying you, and doesnt pay. It shows his irresponsibility and lack of concern for his child.


Yes I have started doing that with other things he was doing - this will be included.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Myfault123 said:


> It is very hard to let go, I think about H all the time. HUGS to you.



Thank you myfault, for your nice post and advice - I will try those words of advice. It just helps to hear everyone talk to me. Thank you everyone.

How long have you been apart? It helps give me an idea of how long this takes... I know everyone is different. Obviously I'm in it for the long haul. lol


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You asked about crying helping? I found anger much more productive than sadness when I was going through my divorce. 

My anger burned away once my divorce was completed but it was very helpful at the time.


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## Myfault123 (Dec 26, 2014)

Lost40 said:


> Thank you myfault, for your nice post and advice - I will try those words of advice. It just helps to hear everyone talk to me. Thank you everyone.
> 
> How long have you been apart? It helps give me an idea of how long this takes... I know everyone is different. Obviously I'm in it for the long haul. lol


It's different for me as I am working abroad, so do not see H at all (except for FT), it is about 9 weeks since H mentioned divorce.

Despite my own advice, I have spent most of this morning trying to get H out of my mind. Weekends are the worst!


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Ive got anger... I've had recent revelations that he isn't infact going to his past college - he is taking his girlfriend on a little trip somewhere else. Which now makes me ask, why he even bothered telling me about the college. Why lie? If you're trying to hurt me, tell me the truth ... it's worse.

I simply can't handle the fact that he claims he has no money, can't see his son on certain days, etc. etc. - can't afford this or that... yet, spends all this money and time with some woman.

This has now confirmed that yes, he is onto someone new... I wish I didn't find out, but I did. And I simply can't imagine why he is doing all of this to our son. He wouldn't even buy him a pair of clothes most recently b/c he told him "I Cant afford it" and now son comes home to me, and says "Dad can't afford them... its not his fault".

Wow... I think I messed up. When I found this out tonight, after my original post, I sent some very nasty texts to him. If it gets me in trouble, so be it. I can't imagine it would, I didn't say anything wrong... but I wasn't very nice. I do it because I hurt for my son, who is the one who is truly being blindsided now. I never thought his Dad would put him last.

I'm done now. He is done ...gone. Out of my life. Time for a new thread title. I'm over him. This was my final straw finding this out. Give me the strength to get through this, I feel I found enough out tonight that this might work.


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

Lost40 said:


> I fear getting him in trouble, I don't want to cause problems.. but, I honestly just wish he would realize that I don't, and do the same for me.
> ...
> If it doesn't come Sunday when he brings son home, I will tell him I'll let my attorney know and see what he does.. I should probably start there, with a verbal threat.
> 
> .


For the well being of your son, you need to stop playing nice. So what if he gets in trouble. He's an adult who made his decisions. He can face his consequences. At this point he doesn't respect you, because he doesn't think you are going to do anything. A verbal threat from you won't mean anything to him. 

I know this is so hard, because you have to change a whole way of dealing with this man. But if you don't he will consistently take advantage of you. 

Treat him like a two year old. After all he is behaving like one. You know how it goes...your two year old is doing something inappropriate. It could be that your 2 year old doesn't know that they are doing something inappropriate or it could be that they are trying to get a reaction. But it doesn't matter...1 warning and then a time out. And if you aren't consistent with that, your child will keep pushing to see what you do. 
And you don't rationalize with a two year old. They aren't capable of that. 

Don't try to explain or rationalize with your stbxh. 

And you've already given him his warning. You told him you wanted that check by midnight. He ignored you. Sit down right now and send and email to your attorney.


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

While you are in your angry mode...maybe you think about your ex the way I did about my ex for a while. 

I used to be married to a wonderful man. And then my ex murdered him. And I want that man to pay for what he did.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Lost40 said:


> I feel like I did stand up to him. I told him not paying me was unacceptable, and he needed to bring it by midnight tonight because I couldn't afford to go without. But he just laughs I'm sure and says "I told you I was busy, I'm sure you'll manage until then" - whatever that meant.


You used words and not actions. 



Lost40 said:


> I just wrote back, telling him I was done being disrespected and that he was a hateful person. But he never replied. I have no control...


You used words and not actions. 



Lost40 said:


> [...] the only thing I could do is, report it to court - and what will that do?


Can't say for sure, but probably something different than your words have done up to this point. 



Lost40 said:


> I fear getting him in trouble, I don't want to cause problems..


What are you afraid of? Do you see that fear is controlling you and your ability to act? 



Lost40 said:


> [...] but, I honestly just wish he would realize that I don't, and do the same for me.


This is your heart trying to be decent, but you'll never change him with good intentions. You'll never change him, period. You can only change yourself. 



Lost40 said:


> If it doesn't come Sunday when he brings son home, I will tell him I'll let my attorney know and see what he does.. I should probably start there, with a verbal threat.


There you go, using words again, thinking they will change him. How's that been working out for you? 



Lost40 said:


> I honestly don't know how to stand up to him, I mean - I'm not nice to him, I don't say to him "Oh okay, thats fine - pay whenever" - I said No, unacceptable - Bring it tonight by midnight.
> 
> He won't..


Because you won't follow through with actions. Standing up to him starts with learning to have respect for yourself and the future of those depending on you. This respect needs to supercede the fear which is paralyzing your ability to act. 

Now get going. 

Lastly, stop texting or engaging him emotionally. Stop caring about what he does in his personal life. You're only hurting yourself and wasting your energy that needs to be focused elsewhere.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Sorry Lost, hang in there, you will bounce around the stages of grief as you process your way through this. Try to take the high road whenever you are able (we all fail to some extent).

Actions and consequences, boundaries and agreements are your most effective approach and its not going to be anyway near 100%, but its the best path and it will get you through it. I'm really just stopping by to see how you are doing and offer a little support.

Be good to yourself and take care!


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Satya said:


> You used words and not actions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep, all talk, little action. Why would he fear nasty texts from you? Probably boosts his ego as he knows he's getting to you. Him laughing at you tells you he still thinks you're a doormat and until you start acting you are. Call your attorney now.

Oh, and it should be obvious why he lies, he knows he's a pos.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Lost40 said:


> Thankfully come final court date, he will start paying me through the state again... I hope. It started out that way, until he complained that he was paying too much, which only resulted in him paying more... but to save on whatever fees they take out, he asked if he could pay me directly. I didn't think it would be a problem, but my god. It still is a court order though, I know that for a fact. It's on court paper he has to pay X amount weekly.
> 
> I would love to post on social media (facebook) or whatever else and talk negative about him, but - what does that make me look like? No one I know does that... lol


Well now you know that dealing with him directly IS a problem. Don't bother posting negatives about him.....treat him like he's nothing because that's exactly what he is. Nothing.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

BlueWoman said:


> Don't try to explain or rationalize with your stbxh.
> 
> And you've already given him his warning. You told him you wanted that check by midnight. He ignored you. Sit down right now and send and email to your attorney.


Thank you for the post Blue, I guess I will write an email to my attorney and if she happens to check her emails on the weekends, she'll get it by this evening. I just have this fear that she will say "Oh well, wait and see if he pays you on Monday".... or what if he does pay me on Sunday when he brings son home - then it's too late. I lost my chance showing him, I am done with your sh!t. They won't do anything about it until Monday anyway.

I'm so mad at myself for allowing him to walk on me like this. It's my own fault... Everyone warned me, and I thought I was taking the right steps - but obviously not enough. I'm starting to honestly feel like there is no hope for me.

I don't even want his last name anymore... it sickens me to say it, it has been for awhile - but now even more. If I change my last name, my son will be hurt.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Satya said:


> What are you afraid of? Do you see that fear is controlling you and your ability to act?
> 
> 
> There you go, using words again, thinking they will change him. How's that been working out for you?


My son... hurting him. It's all about him, and around here - you can suffer some pretty good consequences if you don't pay child support. So, what if I caused something as little as him getting a slap on the wrist... and, he goes and tells my son what I did. Then, my son is mad at me. I already know, ex talks bad about me to son in passive aggressive ways. He did it when we lived together, why wouldn't he do it now? Especially if I make him mad.

I can't lose my son... and, now I'm afraid that if I "over react" he will, start in on the you are mentally unstable, and nuts thing that he used to call me, and swear to me that I was - if I ever stood up for myself and, he'll take my son away from me. Again, I've talked to my therapist about this and he said you are clearly not any of those things, trust me on that. But - it was drilled into my head so many times for 13 years, I just believe ex over my therapist b/c he hasn't known me as long. So, he has me where he wants me ... he knows the one thing I don't want to lose is my son, and that is what he threatened me with for so long. That part has stopped, and initially awarded me sole custody, but he made the comment he wants "shared" now.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Don't beat yourself up. Accept, acknowliedge, analyze, learn and move on. Your learning how to be assertive, it is not an instant transformation. It is like learning a new skill, it takes practice to get correct.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Also, highly unlikely it would be shared custody. First, your son could have a say in the matter. If you gather his text, and other offensive messages he has sent you, it could be used against him. Third, you can use the fact that he is not paying his share as a strike against him. Play it smart. Be more analytical. Record all his mistakes, and you will have evidence of his irresponsibility.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

You're right, I need to keep track of all this. I do have record of a lot of it, especially from early on - and then I've started again more recently... I have a good memory, I can go back and remember a lot -- I won't have dates though.


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

About your son...He is obviously the most important thing in your world. And right now, your son is struggling trying to work out conflicting information. 
I think you are completely right now to talk negatively to your son about his dad. 
But I also think you have a responsibility to show him how women deserve to be treated. If you rationalize being a doormat, your son is going to learn that's how women should be. You don't want that for him. 
I think he's going to figure out what scum his dad is. Right now he's not ready to admit that. And think about you when it first happened...you couldn't admit it either. 

He's going to figure it out...and when he accepts it, it's going to be very painful. And he's going to need you to be there to pick up the pieces. He's going to need you to be strong. 

I would say when your son says it's not his dad fault. Acknowledge maybe it's not. But it's a parents job to take care of their kids no matter what else is happening. And then leave it at that. 

Because in the end, you insisting that he pay his child support is taking care of your child.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Your son's father will continue to lie to your son about what you do. You can't let the fear of that determine how you act. 

As to a possible name change, you can tell your son you want back the name you were born with -- just as he wants the name he was born with. That's what I told my grandchildren when they asked why I suddenly had a different name from them.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

You're right, my son is everything to me.

Thats a very good point, I wasn't ready and willing to admit ex was scum in the beginning either - I still struggle even after all these months. Last night was a real eye opener for me. So, it probably takes time for son too. He's starting to see I think by little things I hear or catch him saying or doing --- but, I don't encourage it, and I don't stop it. I let him feel free to talk his mind, and then we rationalize and talk it out. He told me, "Dad won't let me talk to him anymore about the divorce - he said only if I have a specific question". So, again.... easier for ex to plug his ears and close his eyes than to deal with reality.

You're right, he's going to need to learn from me - how you act in the real world, and how you treat women.  He certainly isn't going to learn it from his father, or anyone on that side of the family for that matter.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Open, that is a good idea. I could say that. It's definitely a name I don't want to carry and it saddens me, that its my sons name he will have for life. Poor kid. But - if it he truly struggles with it, I'll wait until he is older. I'm not going to push it, I'm the adult.

I just hope son never ever believes the lies. I can't imagine he does, not by the way he acts. Unless he's a damn good actor. lol


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Don't worry, Lost, he knows very well which parent can be trusted and believed. He won't be misled. 

I had my married name for 45.5 years but when I decided to get a divorce I knew I didn't want to keep that name. It's a much easier name than my maiden name but I didn't want to continue to use the name of someone I had no respect for. You'll know when it's time to change it. No hurry.


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

Lost40 said:


> Open, that is a good idea. I could say that. It's definitely a name I don't want to carry and it saddens me, that its my sons name he will have for life. Poor kid. But - if it he truly struggles with it, I'll wait until he is older. I'm not going to push it, I'm the adult.


See how far you've come. Remember when you actually wanted him back! 

I know we started our time line together, but I always thought you had it harder than me, because I could cut mine off completely. You don't have that choice. 

I'm glad see the anger...because I know it means moving forward. 

And the only way to get over this is move through it.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Lost40, so sorry you had a rough few days. You've gotten great advice here. I think the only thing that I could add, besides sending you big hugs and support, is encouragement that when you show zero tolerance for your ex putting women ahead of his child and make the consequence as fast and as hard as possible, he will eventually stop asking. Its about cultivating respect and sometimes you have to hit them so hard and so fast that it rattles their bones.

Your ex is going to be one of those. Make sure in your email or a follow up one if necessary includes the fact he laughed at you.

Yes getting the emotions out, crying when sad, doing something physical when angry like heavy exercise are definitely healthy. Be kund to yourself when you swing through a grief moment, accept it as normal.  Soon enough they will be no more..


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

Lost40 said:


> I finally told him, "One more chance, her or me?" and he said Her - I want a Divorce. I said, OK When are you leaving? He said Now. I said, Bye. I took my son, and I left. When I got home, he was gone. Everything.
> 
> I regret that now. Because, I feel like - I should've kept trying, or maybe I should've just been OK with it. Because at least now, I wouldn't be hurting like I am now. At least I wouldn't be alone. At least I would have someone to lay next to in bed at night. At least my son would have his Dad here. The list goes on and on.
> 
> ...


It sounds like you're in a bad place. I'm sorry you're having such a hard time right now. I know how tempting it is to blame yourself. If only I were skinny enough, if only I were different, if only had made x choice, y would have happened. But you are where you are now, and dredging up the past to torture yourself with is an exercise in futility. (Easy to say since I struggle with it often)

The fact is, you aren't the one who made him cheat. He is an adult, and he cheated, and the responsibility for that lies with him. Once the allure of the forbidden has worn off, I'm sure he won't be with her anymore, since that was likely the appeal. But honestly, if he is, she has only gained herself a cheater, and if he has done it once, he will likely do it again in his next relationship. He also sounds like he has bailed as a father and shown his true colors, so she hasn't even gained herself a particularly good partner in raising children if things ever progressed to that stage (which I doubt).

I'm sure you made mistakes, since you are a human being, but don't take the weight on your shoulders of his mistakes - they're not yours to carry anymore. 

You're hurting right now, and that's to be expected. I would be surprised given what you have gone through if you weren't having a hard time. Hang in there, and know you're not alone.


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## FrustratedFL (May 18, 2011)

My ex was/is the same way with child support. He is always making me wait until it is right for him. Since I make a good salary, he believes that I should only receive money when he dictates it. He feels I do not need it and should not be nagging him to get it. 

I am not sure he actually realizes it is court ordered with a distinct amount. I have had my lawyer and child support issue warning letters and threatened to take away his GCG license since he is self employed.

Eventually he pays the arrears amounts but I can never count on it. He does not realize I have an enormous debt from divorce plus a teenage girl who is expensive. Since he does not have appointed visitation he only sees child a few times for a lunch or dinner and never hears the asking for movie money, shopping, school events, donations, etc. My child is very responsible with money and knows her allowance needs to go to all her extra luxuries. But ex will never know how it really is.

He is still gambling and posting his picks and losses on twitter. I used to get furious at the tweets but now I don't even flinch. I just screencapture the tweets and save in a file. I sent a few to my lawyer in case he ever wants to reduce his court appointed amount. We can show proof he gambles his income away.


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Hi Everyone,
I think it's time for me to start a new thread... It shouldn't be called "Can't get over him" anymore.

I had a phone call last night, and I think it truly moved me to a new place. Since then, I have almost felt a sigh of relief ... or something. I can't determine what I feel. 

Phone call from Ex:

Hey -I wanted to let you know, that you will always be special to me to me - because, you will always be my sons Mother, you will always be my Wife. I stopped him at the wife part. I said, Uhm - I'll always be your wife? He said: You know what I mean, you were my first wife or the woman I married (or something stupid, that I can't remember). So he continued... I'm truly over this now, I have built a new life, and I wish you would move on too. I always want to be there for you, as friends - but nothing more. This is an exciting time, it's a time for new beginnings and we should be happy and excited - not sad and angry. We will always love each other, and we'll always have each other - just not as a married couple. It's a good thing. 

He kind of stopped.. at this point, I'm on the verge of tears (but held them in), I had no idea this was the call I was getting, and wasn't expecting it. I said, "You have no idea the time it has taken me to get over this. I'm not going to sit there and listen to you tell me, this is a new and exciting time. No time a family breaks up, should it be defined as a "good thing". You made promises to me through our marriage, that have been broken and destroyed. You didn't even TRY to save the marriage. The pain and the hurt you have caused is something I will never fully get over, and you need to understand that.

He said... "I do understand, but why is it - no one cared that I was miserable for 13 years?"

I said.... "Our entire marriage you were unhappy?" 

He said... "Yes... just about"

I said... "I don't want to hear it. For 13 years, I thought everything we had was real. I treated you, and us as if we were in love and a happy married couple, because I was never told or showed different - and I am now finding out from you, that you never did want to be in the marriage... You made promises to me, that you loved me, and you'd never leave me when I did some dramatic things for YOU and now you are telling me, it was all a lie. Well, it wasn't a lie to me -- It was REAL. Betrayed once again" <click>

I hung up, didn't listen to anything else.

I got a text about an hour later... It said "Just want you to know, I'm here for you... and that you have been a wonderful mother to our son through this, thank you."

I didn't reply. I'm done. I think I've heard it all now. I almost feel like, that was just enough to set me sailing again... I can't believe he would stay married to me for 13 years, and act like things were good. How do you do that and do the things he did to show me he loved me? Yes, I know -- it's coming out, that he was terrible in a lot of ways even through the marriage - but he had enough words and actions that kept me in love. No doubt. I don't know why he did that... but, he did. I think I'm glad it happened. I never cried, and I've been unusually happy today. I hope this is a good sign.

There was no apology attached, but... it almost felt like one. I'm hoping this is what I've been needing. Why else would he do that, maybe to just keep hurting me... since he said about "I'm happy now, and I never was happy in all those 13 years". Who knows.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Applauding you for being so direct and truthful with him.

You stood up for yourself.

You stepped into your authentic identity.

THAT is why you feel good. 

Bravo Girl!


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Oh good! I like this feeling too. Almost peaceful like, lol.

I feel proud of myself for saying what I said, and then getting that follow up text... telling me I've been a wonderful mother. I think I just needed to hear that. Maybe now, I can come to accept it and start moving on.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

He needs to rationalize his behavior to make himself feel good about himself. It is all about him really. Even though it is hard, that type of conversation wasn't necessary. He is not going to try and understand you even though you want him to feel your pain, he will not. The empathy on his part is just an act, a smoke screen. When he was talking about "us," what he really means is he is doing what he wants, and what is best for him. Just switch "us" for "him".


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

How was he rationalizing his behavior in what he said, you mean that is why he is saying he was never happy - b/c its his excuse as to why he did what he did?

Why would he show empathy, what is the purpose of those words? Just to make himself feel better?


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Lost40 said:


> Oh good! I like this feeling too. Almost peaceful like, lol.
> 
> I feel proud of myself for saying what I said, and then getting that follow up text... telling me I've been a wonderful mother. I think I just needed to hear that. Maybe now, I can come to accept it and start moving on.


Yes, that kind of authenticity very much has a peacefulness to it. It can become VERY addicting


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You will never know if he's really being truthful about how he felt those thirteen years or just rewriting history to justify his actions as so many do. 

Time for you to focus on your new life.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

I agree.. he doesn't know which way is up. The ONLY part he got accurate was that you are a great mother. The rest... let it blow away with the wind


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

To placate you, and the rationalization is where he is completely unhappy for 13 years. Even abusive relationships has its good moments. Did he take blame for his actions? From what you posted, he deflected it, and again, he used positive reinforcement to go around the issues. He wanted to take everything away from you, use you for sex, and have someone to take care of both your child.

Not to long ago, he was giving you issues for child support. Most likely, he is trying to be charming to help lower your guard. Behavior does not change that fast, but he is manipulative, and there is a high probability that has not changed.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

He did this because he gets off knowing that he has the power to hurt you. He needed a fix. He thinks he has some kind of hold on you, or control over you. Next time he pulls this sh!t, tell him in no uncertain terms that you are GLAD he is gone!


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## Lost40 (Dec 27, 2014)

Thank you all for replying, about an hour or so after I posted this, I became violently ill. Still not feeling right, I think it was food poisoning - never had it before - but it was terrible - I still am. But - I wanted to come back and say Thanks for reading my latest drama. 

You all are right, he is still trying to lower my guard. I won't answer another call from him again. What a POS.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

So sorry your health just got hammered 

Biggest hugs!!!


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## Jane139 (Jan 6, 2015)

It is very destructive to allow anything he does or says wreck any part of your life at this point, even a day. It is a waste of your time. His feelings for you, for whatever his reasons are, are gone, as far as any sentiment goes. Many men don't hold onto those memories women often find so special anyway. If he IS taking his new woman, he may simply see it as a place that he likes and wants to bring her there. Painful, yes...but that is all it should be, a twinge of pain and then recall all of the mean, horrible things he has said and done. If he was a thoughtful person, he would not have even told exactly where he was going-no need to, with cell phones, these days. He could have just said "away". So maybe he meant to hurt your feelings. Or maybe he did not even think about your feelings.

Either way, it is not worth your agony. Just keep trying to get your child support and contact your lawyer when he is not paying. He is not doing you any favors, apparently.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

I hope you get better. Remember, to avoid his manipulation, you have to not engage. The less you do, the lower his chances of hooking you back into the mind games. You cannot lose if you never play.


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## Pam (Oct 7, 2010)

Lost, I just found your thread today and read all the way through.

Your ex wasn't unhappy for 13 years, but his personality disorder needs to believe that he was, so he can have this "bright new tomorrow" thing going. Don't let him convince you otherwise. 

You have come a long way, but he still has the power to knock you right back into despair. You have to find some way to take that power away from him.

What about the child support money? If he is consistently late, ask your attorney to request that the court move the collection back to the state. Don't worry about "getting him in trouble", with anybody. Your son sees more than you think he does, and you are confusing him with this "Ms Nice Person" thing you have going. Lose her.


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