# 12 years and here we are.



## Aspire (Jun 26, 2012)

Sex has always been a battle for me. I am HD and she is very LD. We are both in our early 30's and don't have any medical issues. All the affection and intimacy has disappeared from our marriage. Not just sex but everything. I can't touch her with her overreacting. She makes me feel like some pervert of the street when I try to hug her. We have 4 kids that she takes care of. All of them go to school and are off for the summer. In my opinion we don't spend a lot of time together, me and her, because I work 48-54 hours a week. It seems like I value the little time we have together considerably more than she does. Three days ago I told her how she made me feel and her response was I need to get over myself. She turns everything I say into an argument about sex. Anytime I mention affection or intimacy the assumption is made that I am referring to sex. Seven or eight years ago that assumption would have been correct but now, now I just want to feel loved. She has slept on the couch (her idea, certainly not mine) the last 3 nights as well. She will go out of her way to do anything for her family members, who have used her over the years for money, "taxi services", have lived with us, etc. but for me she just dosen't have the time. I truly feel that I am not even close to important in her life. She would notice me if the money stopped coming in. Then we have a fight. I don't know. I thought about a separation yesterday and it hurt so bad in the pit of my stomach. Things cannot continue like this.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Aspire,

I feel your pain. I am more HD too and my wife more LD.

I think that the best approach for you would be to put it all on the table and tell her what you said above that there's zero intimacy in the marriage and that men connect to their women through sex while women need to connect emotionally to want to have sex.

It's the old question of which came first, the chicken or the egg.

My wife told me that when we sit together she's often afraid to touch me, hold my hand etc because I'll interpret that as she wants sex. Sad but true.

I think you need to say something like "Honey, you know you are the love of my life and you've given 4 beautiful children over the years and your a fanastic mother but for the past x years, I feel that we've drifted away from each other and I feel discontentected from you. After ALOT of reading, I think that a good part of this is the lack of a intimate reltionship between us. I'd like us to do everything in our power to get back to what we were years ago. I'd like for us to go to counciling to get to the bottom of this because I've always imagined us growing old together."

Good luck to you and keep posting for support. There are quite a few of us out here, both men and women!


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Toffer said:


> My wife told me that when we sit together she's often afraid to touch me, hold my hand etc because I'll interpret that as she wants sex. Sad but true.


Been there, and I replied by saying "I don't want to always hold your hand because I'm afraid it'll make me want to have sex with you and you'll just turn me down."

Once she seen it as a two-way street, things improved slightly.

Sex is a male need. I used to deny that to myself, not anymore. It is the same as a hug is for a woman. It's a need for men. 

For you Toffer, I offer my heartfelt hope for you. What you describe is what I went through in my marriage. My wife really distanced herself from me. We went from having sex daily (maybe twice a day) when we were first dating to having three kids and sex once every 3-6 weeks. And that sex was just the typical 'I'll lie here and you get off' type, but only after I had serviced her for about 40 minutes. Then as soon as the sex was done, she damn near leaped out of bed, cleaned herself off, and went back to the computer or something. No romance, no intimacy, just 'hurry up and get it done.'

She also would sleep on the couch on me. She'd go to bed at a ridiculous hour, like 8:00 p.m. or something, then get up when I'd come to bed and go to the couch. She told me it was because me lying in bed with her shifted the bed and it made it uncomfortable for her to sleep. I found out a year later it was just a convient excuse to get out of the room so that she could get up at like 4:00 a.m. and start talking on line to some guys without me waking up as she left.

She had grown cold and distant and it was to the point where the only contact we had pretty much was sex. No handholding, kissing, anything. Just sex once a month, or twice if I was really lucky, and that was passionless. 

I hope you find a way to rekindle your relationship Toffer, I couldn't. I'm MUCH happier now that I am away from her and in a new relationship with my fiancee, but I also know it was a tough ordeal leaving my ex-wife, especially with kids involved, so I don't wish that on anyone.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Aspire 
This is not an accusation just asking you to examine how much time you spend giving each other undivided attention outside of the times you have sex or want sex. Does she know about your hopes and dreams and you hers? you work long hrs and you have 4 kids. That does not give much time for each other. Do you handle many career and money issues without input from your wife and your wife handle things on the home front without your imput? 

If you spend very little time together talking about what is going on in your lives and in contrast find time to talk about how sexually disatisfied you are, she may perceive that the only thing that gets your attention is sex. 

If that is so, can you do anything to turn that around. Can you find out the details of what is going on in her life and share what is happening in your life. Maybe you have both gotten so busy that you may have drifted apart and don't really know each other. 

Does this make sense to you - look at your relationship in terms of how well integrated your lives are and work on that aspect along with the sex issue. I know this is not a popular view among many men. I am just sharing as a woman. If I did not know what my husband was doing in his career, his hopes and dreams, his worries, I would feel that he is a stranger. If he did not know the same about me I would feel neglected. 

My husband and I take a daily walks with the kids and talk a great deal about shared activities, plans, life, current events. Is it possible for you two to set aside time to do and activity that gives you a chance to connect at lest once a day? This may increase closeness and sexual connection. Does this sound like something that might help?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> Been there, and I replied by saying "I don't want to always hold your hand because I'm afraid it'll make me want to have sex with you and you'll just turn me down."
> 
> Once she seen it as a two-way street, things improved slightly.
> 
> ...


Not to Hijack here but thanks kingsfan.

Haven't gotten to the point you were at (our biggest issue is frequency alone) and we've made some strides but I know EXACTLY how you felt.

While we've had some of those 3 - 6 week stretches (and maybe a little longer) the passion is usually there. She never hopped out of bed to clean up or avoided me purposely (as far as I know) but it always seemed that everything else was more of a priority (we have 3 kids too, older)

Things have improved a little lately and hopefully will continue

Congratulations on finding someone new!


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## reset button (Mar 14, 2012)

I was like this at one point and almost ruined my marriage.

If your wife is taking any kind of hormonal birth control, have her try another method for awhile. Maybe condoms.

Within two weeks no birth control pills I was all over my husband again and we have been extremely happy ever since.

We have high quality sex at least 4 times a week still 3 years later. I know its hard to believe, but VERY true for me and worth a shot. hubby had vasectomy so we are never going back.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Aspire said:


> Sex has always been a battle for me. I am HD and she is very LD. We are both in our early 30's and don't have any medical issues. All the affection and intimacy has disappeared from our marriage. Not just sex but everything. I can't touch her with her overreacting. She makes me feel like some pervert of the street when I try to hug her. We have 4 kids that she takes care of. All of them go to school and are off for the summer. In my opinion we don't spend a lot of time together, me and her, because I work 48-54 hours a week. It seems like I value the little time we have together considerably more than she does. Three days ago I told her how she made me feel and her response was I need to get over myself. She turns everything I say into an argument about sex. Anytime I mention affection or intimacy the assumption is made that I am referring to sex. Seven or eight years ago that assumption would have been correct but now, now I just want to feel loved. She has slept on the couch (her idea, certainly not mine) the last 3 nights as well. She will go out of her way to do anything for her family members, who have used her over the years for money, "taxi services", have lived with us, etc. but for me she just dosen't have the time. I truly feel that I am not even close to important in her life. She would notice me if the money stopped coming in. Then we have a fight. I don't know. I thought about a separation yesterday and it hurt so bad in the pit of my stomach. Things cannot continue like this.


Between her raising 4 kids while you are working OT, yeah I can see why your sex life is bad.

First, stop with the "I just want to feel loved" crap. You want sex. It's natural, it should be part of any good marriage and there's no reason why you shouldn't admit it.

As others said, who knows why it started but there you are. You have to make the first move to get things back on track. But part of that first move is telling your wife that you expect that an intimate, fulfilling sexual relationship MUST be part of the marriage. 

Then you have to give her the means of doing that. Less OT, non-sexual intimacy, talking, walking, etc... Masturbate in the meantime.

if she comes back saying you are just trying to get her to have sex, the answer is "yes, I am because it's necessary to make this marriage work."


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

Read MMSL - Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits.

Same-same. I could have written your post. I'm working on it.


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## River1977 (Oct 25, 2010)

You trained your wife to argue about sex and think you always want sex because you always want sex. This problem is way too common to just be about HD and LD spouses. Every hug DID turn into you wanting sex. Every word like "affection" or "intimacy" was translated into you wanting sex because that was the message you gave her. And now, at this point, you want to accuse her of overreacting. It's too late for that. You already have her trained to feel you always want sex and that's all she means to you. It happens all the time, and the main complaint among men on these boards is "no sex" or "not enough sex." I think it's time you guys start figuring out the same thing it took to get her will also be what keeps her interested, rather than sulking and becoming mean and insulting because you're not getting the sex you want. You can leave and have really great sex life with the next one......until she starts feeling the same way. Or, you can fix this and stop treating your wife like the purpose of her birth was to give you sex. She's a worthwhile woman most likely, with needs and problems of her own - problems you are not there to suffer or support, but you come here complaining about not getting sex. For one thing, she feels like a single parent. For another thing, she feels abandoned like she doesn't mean anything to you except for sex. You are never there, but you think it's okay to complain about what she doesn't do for you. I'll tell you the exact thing she told you, "Get over yourself." She is not your object.


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## Aspire (Jun 26, 2012)

Lots of different opinions I see. I will answer everyone's questions below. Thank you all for your input.


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

Bitter much Rover1977? Sheesh!

On the other hand, he's working his ass off to feed his family. And a little affection is not too much to ask. He didn't say anything to imply any of the garbage you just dumped on him about her being some kind of sex slave to him. If he didn't hug her or give affection, you'd be dumping on him for that, and screaming about how could he expect her to have sex when he never gives affection? 

Aspire, it's a cycle people get into. Read other posts, it plays out over and over. The more you want love, affection (and yes, heaven forbid, sex!) the more you chase her for it and the needier you act. The needier you act, the less she wants to give you sex. In the meantime, she probably simultaneously gets the emotional gratification she's not getting from you from the kids while she lets them also suck her dry so there's nothing left for you. 

You're going to have to back off so she's not feeling like she has to constantly defend against your sexual advances, and stop acting needy. Like i said before, get MMSL.


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

By the way, easiest way to relieve the pressure she's feeling is call a sexual moratorium. Just tell her regardless of how she feels you won't be having sex with her for a few months. That gives you a chance to work on issues and offer affection w/o her feeling like it's a full court press for sex. And, while it's counter-intuitive, you'll feel better because it's your decision, not hers. you have the control, not her.


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## Aspire (Jun 26, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> Aspire
> This is not an accusation just asking you to examine how much time you spend giving each other undivided attention outside of the times you have sex or want sex. Does she know about your hopes and dreams and you hers? you work long hrs and you have 4 kids. That does not give much time for each other. Do you handle many career and money issues without input from your wife and your wife handle things on the home front without your imput?
> 
> If you spend very little time together talking about what is going on in your lives and in contrast find time to talk about how sexually disatisfied you are, she may perceive that the only thing that gets your attention is sex.
> ...



We spend both of my off days together and my work days I am still home at a reasonable hour, usually 9 pm. On my work days we talk for 20 minutes or so about the day, she catches me up on things the kids did and I talk about my day. There is usually a few chores (cleaning the kitchen, putting a load of clothes away, etc.) that I help with finishing. She will normally stay up late and I am beat about 11pm and head to bed. If I try to get intimate she gets angry and a fight usually ensues. She never says she's tired because she is up till midnight to 1 am most of the time. We make all major decisions together and about 70% of minor ones. I am always able to answer my cell anywhere I am so she calls often and I answer. My off days are spent running errands with her. We go to lunch 98% of those of days and we do have date nights when her mother or my mother watches the kids while we go out. She is always interested in what I am talking about and I her. This is one aspect that is great and I believe it is because we spend so much time apart. Intimacy simply infuriates her. She becomes a different person. Thanks for your input Catherine602.


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## Aspire (Jun 26, 2012)

reset button said:


> I was like this at one point and almost ruined my marriage.
> 
> If your wife is taking any kind of hormonal birth control, have her try another method for awhile. Maybe condoms.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your post reset button. I will ask her if she would like to discuss this as an option. I have heard people say this before but have always dismissed it as a very small possibility. However, with the possibilities narrowing and your suggestion, I will make it a point to ask her.


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## Aspire (Jun 26, 2012)

Chris Taylor said:


> Between her raising 4 kids while you are working OT, yeah I can see why your sex life is bad.
> 
> First, stop with the "I just want to feel loved" crap. You want sex. It's natural, it should be part of any good marriage and there's no reason why you shouldn't admit it.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the post Chris Taylor. I actually talked to her about this tonight and as you can read, I am typing and not in the bed. A 10 minute argument and then 5 minutes of getting screamed at was enough for me. She pretty much poked fun at me and said I was crying like a baby. She even made the "waaa waaa" sound for added effect. Needless to say I am staring at a computer screen. Thanks for the input.


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## Aspire (Jun 26, 2012)

River1977 said:


> You trained your wife to argue about sex and think you always want sex because you always want sex. This problem is way too common to just be about HD and LD spouses. Every hug DID turn into you wanting sex. Every word like "affection" or "intimacy" was translated into you wanting sex because that was the message you gave her. And now, at this point, you want to accuse her of overreacting. It's too late for that. You already have her trained to feel you always want sex and that's all she means to you. It happens all the time, and the main complaint among men on these boards is "no sex" or "not enough sex." I think it's time you guys start figuring out the same thing it took to get her will also be what keeps her interested, rather than sulking and becoming mean and insulting because you're not getting the sex you want. You can leave and have really great sex life with the next one......until she starts feeling the same way. Or, you can fix this and stop treating your wife like the purpose of her birth was to give you sex. She's a worthwhile woman most likely, with needs and problems of her own - problems you are not there to suffer or support, but you come here complaining about not getting sex. For one thing, she feels like a single parent. For another thing, she feels abandoned like she doesn't mean anything to you except for sex. You are never there, but you think it's okay to complain about what she doesn't do for you. I'll tell you the exact thing she told you, "Get over yourself." She is not your object.


Thanks for your post River1977. It was definitely a blunt perspective on the issue. Just so we are on the same page, my wife was never an object to me. She is everything to me. That is why I have come to a public forum to seek advice. I want my wife in every way more today than when I married her. Even though I work ~58 hours a week, she works infinitely more than I do and I tell her often that we would never make it without her. I cherish my wife and want my marriage to survive.


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## Aspire (Jun 26, 2012)

Drover said:


> By the way, easiest way to relieve the pressure she's feeling is call a sexual moratorium. Just tell her regardless of how she feels you won't be having sex with her for a few months. That gives you a chance to work on issues and offer affection w/o her feeling like it's a full court press for sex. And, while it's counter-intuitive, you'll feel better because it's your decision, not hers. you have the control, not her.


Thanks for the post Drover. I will give this a shot. I will also check out the e-book you posted. I do believe that the kids take a lot out of her. I do my best to take over when I'm off after work and on my off days, but they always seem to call for mommy. I will keep you all posted as time goes on. Thank you.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

River1977 said:


> You trained your wife to argue about sex and think you always want sex because you always want sex. This problem is way too common to just be about HD and LD spouses. Every hug DID turn into you wanting sex. Every word like "affection" or "intimacy" was translated into you wanting sex because that was the message you gave her. And now, at this point, you want to accuse her of overreacting. It's too late for that. You already have her trained to feel you always want sex and that's all she means to you. It happens all the time, and the main complaint among men on these boards is "no sex" or "not enough sex." I think it's time you guys start figuring out the same thing it took to get her will also be what keeps her interested, rather than sulking and becoming mean and insulting because you're not getting the sex you want. You can leave and have really great sex life with the next one......until she starts feeling the same way. Or, you can fix this and stop treating your wife like the purpose of her birth was to give you sex. She's a worthwhile woman most likely, with needs and problems of her own - problems you are not there to suffer or support, but you come here complaining about not getting sex. For one thing, she feels like a single parent. For another thing, she feels abandoned like she doesn't mean anything to you except for sex. You are never there, but you think it's okay to complain about what she doesn't do for you. I'll tell you the exact thing she told you, "Get over yourself." She is not your object.


I could think of a post to which I have objected more strongly, but it would be tough.

First of all, he does not want sex always. He wants sex STILL - the difference is that ALWAYS implies he is having his need met regularly and still wanting more.

Then, the argument that she feels like a single mom holds little water. The fact is that she is important enough for him to agree to be her sole support. He sacrifices his time and energy to support her as well as the kids. He could just as easily work a straight 40 hours, come home and be with the kids, and have her get a weekend job and take some of pressure off himself.

The problem with expecting him to step up and take care of her at the same level is that with four kids it is an impossibility. The time is simply not there. Note that he is not asking to be ravaged as he was before the kids came along either.

If I had to guess, I would suggest that she can gotten to the point where she feels her wants and needs are more important than his. Rather than acknowledging times are tough and they need to compromise, she simply will not be touched until she feels like it. Fair enough, but then the question becomes what would happen if he emphasized himself similarly. Would she see that as a fair turnabout or complain that she is not the center of attention.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Aspire said:


> Thanks for the post Chris Taylor. I actually talked to her about this tonight and as you can read, I am typing and not in the bed. A 10 minute argument and then 5 minutes of getting screamed at was enough for me. She pretty much poked fun at me and said I was crying like a baby. She even made the "waaa waaa" sound for added effect. Needless to say I am staring at a computer screen. Thanks for the input.


Dude, this changes everything.

It is even more clear to me that she has zero respect for you for and is a just a mean, vindictive person besides. How petty and bitter do you have to be in order to mock someone else's unmet needs and hurt? This would be like mocking someone who was sad that his puppy died.

First of all, I would never allow myself to be disrespected like that. I would simply walk away and refuse to be taunted. Or, if you are quick witted about it (as I am) I would poke back and mount an offense once in a while.

Second of all, you need to scale back how much you do for her. Why are you working hard for someone who is so unappreciative of your effort? Work 40 or so hours instead of 60. Spend more time with the kids instead. Signal that what she gets comes at a cost and you will not be treated otherwise.

Third, you need to stop communicating that you have an unwaverable lifetime commitment to her. She thinks she has you in pocket and thus has no reason to change. So, do the sex moratorium. Make it clear that separation and divorce, while not optimal, is much better than the way she treats you currently. That will shake her up, and if it does not then you know exactly where you stand with her.

At the end of the day, you need to accomplish two things. She thinks she has you by the balls because you will never leave (either because you are sprung on her or because you are too afraid to take action). So first of all, you need to show that you will be perfectly fine without her if it came to that. Prove you can be happy without her, run a home without her, and parent your children without her.

Second of all, make it clear that she has much to lose. Improve yourself (the opposite of whiny and clingy), get some friends of your own, etc. - make it clear that your time is valuable and she must prove she is worthy of it (in the same way she has told you you are unworthy of hers). The goal is to make her see you as a person who does much for her and has value.

Also, and as importantly, some women (not necessarily yours) seem to be under the misconception that, in a divorce, they will walk away with primary custody and fat maintenance payments, while dad works his butt off and gets 4 days per month. If you don't change the way you live your life, this might be the outcome in case of divorce (you don't want it, but she might based on her behavior).

But, if you are the doting dad who takes care of his kids, she might say "wow, a divorce means every other week alone at home and I have to scramble for a job". You don't want her to operate in an environment of fear, but that might be the wake-up call she needs to straighten out and grow up.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

If you are not leaving anything out, your wife has contempt for you and very little respect. Your description of what you would like to share with your wife is normal. No I am gong to say it is beautiful, many women would give their eye teeth to have a hard working man who still desires them after 4 kids and many years. 

So you seem good to me. So what the eeeefff is going on. This last outburst hurts me to read. I think you need help of a professional to get to the bottom of this. 

. You are letting her get away with stepping on your face. Why? She treated you with deep contempt and disrespect. [email protected] getting sex at present - this ain't about sex - this is about strength, leadership and demanding to be treated like you treat her. Don't sit her posting. 

Think about what you will say to her. You must be strong and forceful. Quietly tell her never ever speak to you like that again. 

Don't tell her to apologize but make that a requirement before being attentive to her again. Back off. Put it in your head that you are not have sex with her under the present circumstances. No extras for her. Consequences for being nasty. . Do your part with the kids and the house but nothing extra with her. If she says it is about sex, tell her it is about respect. She would not want to be treated the way she treats you. . 

Change your appearence get a new hear cut, new clothes , different colors. Maybe go out to dinner with a family member on you free time instead of spending it with her. 

Cool off and expect nothing from her for now. But do go to MC and let her know what you are doing. I don't think you or your wife realize this but, the chances for divorce are high. Know why? Contempt by one spouse for the other is the most reliable predictor of divorce. Look it up. 

If I said what your wife said to my husband, there would be a major problem in our household. I would not get away with it. My husband is HD but he likes to be respected more than he likes sex . You had a non- reaction and she is riding you like an old nag. And why is that - because you want to have sex with her? If you have to be degraded for sex, it may not be worth it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

River1977 said:


> You respond with nothing concrete or any indication you understood a word I said. That means you didn't. It doesn't matter how you feel, what you want, and blah blah blah. Sound familiar? I guess I see how your wife feels and the reasons she feels that way. Are you really so shallow and vacant all the time? So much for getting blessed out for my post.
> 
> What matters and the point of my post is how you make/made HER feel.
> 
> ...


Respectfully, 

I think your post might not be getting much traction from Aspire because you are coming at it from two fundamentally different perspectives.

I've been in Aspire's shoes, so I can say with confidence that he wants this marriage to work but can feel his stamina slipping away. His wife insists on his meeting her needs; did you catch the part where he says that if his income were to drop she would not only object but would pick a fight over it?

IMO, this guy is willing to put in significant initial effort but at some point expects that she is going to be as thoroughly committed to meeting his needs as he is to meeting hers. His bind is that he is simply worn out and does not know if he has the energy to invest in someone who shows no signs of wanting to put his wants and needs on equal footing with her own.

Then, you come in and advocate a form of "relationship Reaganomics", where he acknowledges her as the driver of the marriage and thus as preeminent over him. You are essentially asking him to believe that she matters more, and then give her more, in the hope that she eventually will get so content that she will start giving a little bit back to him.

The problem with this approach is that he will never get back as much as he puts in. That outcome is inevitable in a situation where she sees herself as inherently the more valuable of the two. She will assert that she deserves more, and at some point when he asks "what about me" she will not see how much he has invested in her and they will be back at square one.

I don't see the OP as a guy who will be happy perpetually being at his wife's service and getting less than he gives. And, there's nothing wrong with that - I personally think such a dynamic in a relationship is unhealthy. Since he probably won't be happy with that dynamic, I suggested that he needs to establish himself as capable and as her equal - immediately - to have a chance at long-term happiness in the relationship.

Your post basically seems to say that Aspire's wife needs to come first


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> If you are not leaving anything out, your wife has contempt for you and very little respect. Your description of what you would like to share with your wife is normal. No I am gong to say it is beautiful, many women would give their eye teeth to have a hard working man who still desires them after 4 kids and many years.
> 
> So you seem good to me. So what the eeeefff is going on. This last outburst hurts me to read. I think you need help of a professional to get to the bottom of this.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

Oh, and did I mention that :iagree:?


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## River1977 (Oct 25, 2010)

DTO said:


> His wife insists on his meeting her needs; did you catch the part where he says that if his income were to drop she would not only object but would pick a fight over it?





Aspire said:


> She would notice me if the money stopped coming in. Then we have a fight.


No, I didn't take that as fact, being something that actually happened. I took it, by his word "would," as what he expects "would" happen if he didn't make any money. As written, it is unsubstantiated and ambiguous.

You missed my point as well. I spoke nothing about her being more important, she needs to come first, is preeminant over him, or anything of the sort. My point was that this problem, as you acknowledge experiencing yourself, is too common among spouses to blame the wife in every event. My point was that men and women have different needs, different feelings, and different ways of thinking. My point was that men, by their own actions, make their wives feel that way. My point was to assert that men bring this on themselves. My point was that he trained her to feel he always wants sex and every hug/kiss/touch had to turn into sex because he always wants sex and every hug/kiss/touch had to turn into sex. But, he says that now it's not about that, and she's overreacting AFTER he confessed that's the way it was at one time, which means she is not overreacting. She's trained to expect everything has to turn into sex, and by this time she feels objectified. You and he are not the only ones in this thread alone to acknowledge going through the same thing. It is extremely common. Yet, you jump off in his defense and twist what I said as imbalance of power and her exaggerated importance. You and he both ignored the points I made, and you turned them into something wrong to be flouted. That is also common to minimize and dismiss what the wife says and feels because you/he/men want sex. As a woman, I am telling him/you what happened and why she feels that way. I experienced the same with my first husband and got away from him at my first opportunity. Sometimes, a woman just wants a hug to be a hug - affection in the true sense, but it rarely happened so simply if ever. As a man, you want sex and can understand how he feels, and that's all that matters. I don't believe this will ever be any different. The raging hormones of a younger man may quell later in life to the need to feel connected, where the word "affection" really means affection and not sex. That doesn't reverse the facts and the damage that younger man effected. You make your wives feel used and then complain that she feels used. If I were so wrong, there wouldn't be so very, very, very many posts by men with the exact same complaint, not to mention the numerous, as in this thread, who come to the man's defense because they, like you, know how he feels and have experienced or are experiencing the same thing.


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## Aspire (Jun 26, 2012)

River1977 said:


> No, I didn't take that as fact, being something that actually happened. I took it, by his word "would," as what he expects "would" happen if he didn't make any money. As written, it is unsubstantiated and ambiguous.
> 
> You missed my point as well. I spoke nothing about her being more important, she needs to come first, is preeminant over him, or anything of the sort. My point was that this problem, as you acknowledge experiencing yourself, is too common among spouses to blame the wife in every event. My point was that men and women have different needs, different feelings, and different ways of thinking. My point was that men, by their own actions, make their wives feel that way. My point was to assert that men bring this on themselves. My point was that he trained her to feel he always wants sex and every hug/kiss/touch had to turn into sex because he always wants sex and every hug/kiss/touch had to turn into sex. But, he says that now it's not about that, and she's overreacting AFTER he confessed that's the way it was at one time, which means she is not overreacting. She's trained to expect everything has to turn into sex, and by this time she feels objectified. You and he are not the only ones in this thread alone to acknowledge going through the same thing. It is extremely common. Yet, you jump off in his defense and twist what I said as imbalance of power and her exaggerated importance. You and he both ignored the points I made, and you turned them into something wrong to be flouted. That is also common to minimize and dismiss what the wife says and feels because you/he/men want sex. As a woman, I am telling him/you what happened and why she feels that way. I experienced the same with my first husband and got away from him at my first opportunity. Sometimes, a woman just wants a hug to be a hug - affection in the true sense, but it rarely happened so simply if ever. As a man, you want sex and can understand how he feels, and that's all that matters. I don't believe this will ever be any different. The raging hormones of a younger man may quell later in life to the need to feel connected, where the word "affection" really means affection and not sex. That doesn't reverse the facts and the damage that younger man effected. You make your wives feel used and then complain that she feels used. If I were so wrong, there wouldn't be so very, very, very many posts by men with the exact same complaint, not to mention the numerous, as in this thread, who come to the man's defense because they, like you, know how he feels and have experienced or are experiencing the same thing.


River1977, as you have said in your post above I, and others, have not grasped what you are trying to say. Can you explain the options you believe I have at this point in laymans terms?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

I completely agree with Catherine. She is showing you total disrespect at this point.

No man or woman should tolerate the types of things she is dishing out, period.

Some posters in here are coming at you pretty hard, especially considering you are here asking for support, but don't beat yourself up too much. You've made mistakes, she has too. The real question to me is - is your wife healthy and mature enough to be able to move on from the past and seek resolution like you seem to be doing, or is she stuck? I hope for both your sakes it is the first option, but if she is stuck in the past, you might want to accept that living with a disrespectful partner is probably not the way you want to spend the rest of your days.

Good luck Aspire.


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## TeR (Jun 28, 2012)

Aspire,

THIS thread compelled me to register. I am the female you. I am the one 'chasing' my husband for sex and feel no affection from him.

My issues aside, I wanted to offer you the female side of the coin. Being a stay home Mommy is hard, tiresome and at time frustrating. There is no harsher critic than yourself when a SAHM. It's easy to lose yourself in everyone else's needs. Self-esteem/self-worth is last on your list.

I have 'picked' fights with my husband to have withheld sex from my husband because _he_ didn't make me feel wanted and/or appeciated. And we all know that if the emotional is not right; the physical won't be either. (*embarrassed*) I know it sounds stupid...but that's exactly where I was at the time.

Is it possible she's feeling a bit unappreciated and lost in caring for the family? After your last post I cannot imagine you'd want to pay her a compliment. I just hope there is still time to salvage your marriage. Hopefully after having her realize how hurtful she was in disregarding your sentiments, you both work on her resentful ones.

I wish you the best of luck.


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## sweetpea (Jan 30, 2007)

please stay on topic. Posts will be deleted and people will be banned without warning, if posters can't stay on topic.


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## Aspire (Jun 26, 2012)

Acorn said:


> I completely agree with Catherine. She is showing you total disrespect at this point.
> 
> No man or woman should tolerate the types of things she is dishing out, period.
> 
> ...


I hope there is the chance we can resolve the situation. I have imposed a 60 day moratorium on sex as it was suggested by another poster. She had no reaction to this and has gone about her day as if there are no issues.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Aspire (Jun 26, 2012)

TeR said:


> Aspire,
> 
> THIS thread compelled me to register. I am the female you. I am the one 'chasing' my husband for sex and feel no affection from him.
> 
> ...


I very much understand the HUGE amount of work she does as a SAHM. I make sure she knows that I am thakful for all that she does and that we couldn't do it without her. I used to come home with flowers and every now and then, maybe once every two months, come home with a gift certificate for a massage or facial or mani/pedi as a "Love you" gift. Most of the time they sat until they expired cause she wouldn't go by herself.

Best of luck to you in your situation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

Aspire said:


> Thanks for the post Chris Taylor. I actually talked to her about this tonight and as you can read, I am typing and not in the bed. A 10 minute argument and then 5 minutes of getting screamed at was enough for me. She pretty much poked fun at me and said I was crying like a baby. She even made the "waaa waaa" sound for added effect. Needless to say I am staring at a computer screen. Thanks for the input.


This is really mean. How can you love someone like that? The first time I behaved so cruelly to my husband would be the last time I saw him, no way would he put up with that kind of crap.

She sounds like she doesn't love or respect you. I don't think there's much you can do, I'm really sorry.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I repect how much work it is to be at home taking care of kids. It is really difficult to appreciate how relentless and labor intensive it is. Having a career is also brutal. The decision to do on or the other or a part of one or the other has to be carefully considered. If it does not work out as planned then the best thing to do is to renegotiate the arrangement. 

Dueling over who has it worse is pointless. If you have kids, someone has to take the responsibility to care for them or to arrange their care. Someone has to go out and work too. 

That's the reality. Staying at home is not a sanctified activity that bestows the right to lord it over the working spouse is it?? So why is she so contemptuous of the man who made it possible her to have those kids and who is doing his part along with her to nurture them. 

She does not get a pass to be contemptuous. She may be a divorced mother struggling with her kids half time if she does not hold her tongue. 

Aspire this is critical. Do not let this go one more day with out telling her that she treated you with contempt and you will no longer accept it. If it starts an argument so be it. It will get worse before it gets better. Keep to your guns. 

Better yet - post in the men's clubhouse with a link back to this post. There are some guys who can help you frame what to say in the right way and help you stay the course.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## littlemissred (Jun 28, 2012)

I really feel for you. I'm also the female HD with a LD husband. It's hard because it's not just the sex (despite what people say), but the affection is scarce as well. As for how hard SAHMs work, and it's true we do but so does my husband. He doesn't come home and just sit on the couch getting served, he is helping with the kids/dinner/bedtime. I'm sure we aren't unusual there. I think she is incredibly disrespectful and I wouldn't tolerate my husband talking to me like that when I discuss this issue with him. I would be very clear about not being spoken to like that. To be honest, I think there is something more going on then just the sex issue.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Aspire, you've gotten generally good advice on this thread.

I don't like the sex moratorium. You're rewarding her bad behavior by giving her exactly what she wants. If a mugger demanded your wallet, and you announced that you decided, on your own, to hand over your watch too, the mugger would not be upset.

Also, as others have pointed out, being a SAHM is an important job, but it's not heroic. She's not running into a burning building every day.

You've allowed your marriage to slip to its current state by putting your wife on a pedastal. She believes that she's more important than you are because you've reinforced that belief. Now, you need to take her off the pedastal and bring her back down to your level.

The best, and slowest, way to establish balance in your marriage is Athol Kay's Married Man Sex Life book. He recommends self-improvement to make yourself more attractive to your wife.

A faster way, that is riskier, is the thermostat method. What that entails is to stop catering to your wife and match her level of effort in your marriage. Since she refuses to meet your needs, you should refuse to meet hers. She will notice this very quickly and either begin meeting your needs, or ramp up her aggression in the relationship, and possibly end things.

Either way, the long term solution to your problems is not to defer more to your wife, do more for her, and let her abuse you more. Women don't like weak men.

Good luck.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> Also, as others have pointed out, being a SAHM is an important job, but it's not heroic. She's not running into a burning building every day.
> 
> I agree with PHT here. A SAHM is a very difficult and demanding job and one that is often under-appreciated. that being said, when my wife tried to pull this sh1t on me, I occasionally reminded her that if she had a bad day with the kids and screwed something up with them, they wouldn't fire her azz!


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## TeR (Jun 28, 2012)

Catherine602 & LittleMissRed,

Please don't misunderstand, in no way am I condoning her actions. I think her last noted 'outburst' was downright cruel. I just meant that her actions may have deeper roots than just being a mean lady.

Coming from personal experience...I worked a 60hr week for 10yrs with two children and a working husband. We were a great team. I've now been a stay home mommy for 4yrs now...we're still a great team...but I developed issues with not 'contributing' to the household anymore. My husband never made me feel that way nor said anything of the sort. It was all in *my* head. But that little seed grew roots and sprouted out as resentment he had _nothing_ to do with. (I can say that now...back then it was ALL his fault). Armed with my resentment...I withheld sex and picked fights.

I can't believe Aspire would have married a 'big meannie' 12+ yrs ago AND stayed. Something has to have changed and it may be in their best interest to dig down and figure out what that something was.

Considering he's venting/seeking advise, I believe he would like to find that woman he fell in love with, married and had an emotional/physical connection with years ago.

If there is any way to save this marriage it's going to start with LOTS of communication.

Aspire: I agree with PHTlump: somewhat. The moratorium is going to hurt your feelings more than hers (when she shows no reaction to the 'proclamation'). Obviously she can't be forced but waiting for the reaction that's not coming isn't the way. PHTlump's thermostat makes perfect sense. She cannot continue to enjoy the spoils of a good man and not reciprocate. The attention is what should be withheld (that would certainly hurt me).

Having read all the nice things you've already tried...you sound like an absolute sweetheart of a husband; you deserve a sweetheart of a wife. Don't settle for less. I hope she's still in there, only you can tell.


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## happylovingwife (Jun 5, 2012)

Aspire, I feel for you. 

I used to act somewhat similar to your wife but never would have mocked him with the "wah wah" thing. He probably would never forgive me for that. He's a typical man where he needs to be respected. The good thing is that he's a man that easily respected. He's kind and loyal and loving. The few times I have been disrespectful, I felt awful for days afterward and he let me know he wouldn't tolerate that behavior for long. 

In any event, I am also a SAHM. It is hard, but so is working. My husband busts his butt all week long so that WE can care for our kids. Someone has to work. Being a SAHM is mostly hard because very few people in our society respect the choice so I get how she could be feeling. That said, she's going to hate it even more if she runs you off and she becomes a single mom and has to get a job and put her kids in daycare or whatnot. Do not tolerate this behavior from her. It's an abomination. Tell her she's the one acting like a baby by not being able to have a rational, adult discussion without resorting to bullying and sadistic behavior. How would she react if your children acted that way to one another. I bet my butt she would step in and stop it. 

Please do check out the hormonal birth control thing. That definitely affected my drive in an awful way. I can't do any sort of hormonal pill. The hard thing is that the decline in drive is so gradual that I didn't put two and two together until much later. It wasn't until my husband started to show signs of serious discontent that I began to examine things. At that point, we were at once or twice a month for a newly married couple at 24 years old. Not normal! After I got off the pill, my spontaneous and responsive desire returned to normal. I am usually only spontaneously desirous of sex around ovulation but am ALWAYS responsive sexually now. I can't think of a time he has started caressing me that I have not begun to immediately want sex. Women are mostly wired to respond to physical touch. 

Good luck. You sound like a great catch to me. It's a shame some women get so comfortable that they are willing to destroy their marriage and their children's stability.


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## Aspire (Jun 26, 2012)

Lyris said:


> This is really mean. How can you love someone like that? The first time I behaved so cruelly to my husband would be the last time I saw him, no way would he put up with that kind of crap.
> 
> She sounds like she doesn't love or respect you. I don't think there's much you can do, I'm really sorry.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She is definitely not the person I married. I guess at this point I just want answers.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

TeR 

I understand both positions too. I have a career and two children. I took 2 months off after each one. I don't know what would have happened if I decided to quit work altogether but I am certain it would not have been good. I am now working part time which is quite a comedown from a busy, high powered career. 

This is a description of contempt by Gottman: "Criticism can lead to contemptuous comments directed at one's partner. Some examples of contempt are when a person uses "sarcasm, cynicism, name-calling, eye- rolling, sneering, mockery, and hostile humor" (Gottman et al 29). ...... it communicates disgust to the person it is directed toward. As a result, the conflict escalates. It becomes impossible to solve a problem when the message being sent is that one partner is disgusted with the other."

Gottman's research shows that contempt is one of the best indicators of future divorce. It is a better predictor than infidelity, domestic violence and frequent conflict. That must mean that contempt wounds deeply and kills love. I think the contemptuous person is mean and they know what they are doing. They are certainly not benign they are mean. 

To live with a spouse who believes the other is beneath consideration, worthless and deserving of scorn is like living with an enemy. I think you are underestimating the harmful nature of contempt and it's effect on the recipient. I also think that you are mistaken if you think his wife is unaware of what she is doing. 

It's like domestic violence - the perp knows it is wrong but does it in secrecy to wound their spouse. 

Dr. John Gottman, The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work
Dr. John Gottman, Why Marriages Succeed or Fail...And How You Can Make Yours Last


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