# Wife cheated on me. I need advice on what to do next



## lawdawg

I really don't know where to start but I'll say that I found out that my wife cheated on me back in September. It was with an old friend of hers and I found out through her text messages and phone logs. She admitted to an emotional affair with kissing and touching but she would not admit to having sex with him. She even denied the affair for the first week. The only reason why she told the truth was because I talked to the other man and he told me that they had an relationship and that he was sorry. He said it was only emotional and they did not have sex. I told her mother and her sister and they pressured her to tell me the truth. Up until then, she swore that they were just friends and she said that I was just making up everything. I was devastated and I wanted to leave her. The only reason why I decided to stay was for my kids sake and she begged me to give the marriage another shot and said that she was sorry. After about a week of fighting, I tried to get things to go back to normal. I tried to hug and kiss her and I told her that we will find a way to fix things.

I won't say that I am perfect because I am not. I served 9 years in the military and got injured. I'm a 70% disabled veteran and I receive services from the VA. I've been depressed over the years and went through bouts of suicide and loneliness. I have a few acquaintances and no close friends. I have been seeing a therapist at the VA for the past few years and I have taken medication to help. I've been told by my therapist that I'm too nice. She says that I am the type of person that will do anything to make everyone else happy even if it means that I'm not happy. She says that I agree with other people's opinions so I can be accepted. It kind of hurt to hear that and I didn't even want to believe it. It's funny because she told me that a few years back and now I'm starting to see that it was true. 

I'm only telling this part about myself because it relates to the issues with my wife. We rarely had sex the past few years. When we first got together. Sex was great. Multiple times per day and during the week. A few years back, she said she didn't want to do oral anymore. This made me upset but I (like a dummy) just gave in. Then after that, she said that sex is painful and that I was hurting her during sex. I felt really bad about that and that's when the erectile dysfunction started. Since 2010, I've had a really tough time getting it up for her. I've tried cialis and it works sometimes but 90% of the time, I just can't get it up for her. She always blamed me and said that it was my problem. She's even asked me a few times if I was gay. I've gotten my testosterone checked and it was fine. It works in the morning when I wake up and I am aroused around other women. Our sex life for the past few years has consisted of me giving her oral and me getting a hand job in return. 

I felt really bad thinking I had a bad problem at such a young age but now after all these years, I'm starting to see that she had just as much to do with this as me (if not more). For one, she always like sleeping with the kids in the room. Even now, our oldest sleeps in a bed on the side of the room and the 3 year old sleeps in the bed with her. I have told her countless times that the kids need to sleep in their own room (we have a 3 bedroom home) and that we can't have sex with them in there. Also, she never really touches me sexually or makes me feel wanted. I don't get massages or bjs or anything else that I hear other men get. Our kisses are pretty much pecks and we've been living like roommates. I've tried giving her compliments and touching her sexually but all she says is thanks. I see now that she has created a environment where it's impossible for us to have sex because she doesn't want to. Even the therapist has told her that the kids should sleep in the other room but she doesn't listen. I know that if she was dating another new man, nobody would have to tell her to put the kids in another room when he came because she would do it automatically.

There have been other hints over the years too. Before I found out about her affair, I noticed she deleted me from her social media pages. If you look at her pictures and status, you would never know she was married to me. For a while, we used to fight because she never wore her ring. She would call me jealous and me being a nice guy, would always give in. 

So back to what is going on now, she doesn't feel that her affair was her fault. She says that I drove her to cheat. On top of that, she doesn't even think it was an affair at all since they didn't have sex. I don't even believe that because if we weren't having sex, how could she not sleep with him since she liked him so much? We had a big fight about a week ago and I told her that I was sorry that I even found out about the affair. I told her is there anyway we can start over and work on our marriage. She said that she thinks that it's better that we separate. I told her that if we separate, I am gone for good and I am not coming back. She said "oh you'll be back". What does that even mean??? After that, I told her that I wanted a divorce and I immediately went online and printed out the packet. I filled out what I needed to and I wrote down all the bills and told her that she needs to pay half while I'm living there. She looked sad but just said ok. I was all set to start the process last Monday but I spoke to my therapist before hand. She told me it might be better to just separate and cool off for a while because I could always start the process later. Since then, I've moved all my things to the guest room. When she tries to talk to me, I barely say a word to her. I pretty much just interact with the kids and I've only spoken to her when it's concerning the kids.

I'm tired of being run over and lied too. I know that I've always been a nice person and that's something that I used to be proud of. I see now that people (even my own wife) take advantage of that in life. Right now, she has so much confidence that it just makes me furious. She's lost weight and bought new clothes and underwear. It just makes me upset. Ideally, I would want to work things out but I'm just tired of her trying to run over me. Is it worth trying to patch things up with her? Would sleeping in the other room lead to more problems down the line? She said before that I'm jealous and she doesn't like that I check her phone. Now, I try not to even look in her direction. It just bothers me all the time because I feel like this last 10 years was taken from me and it's all I can think about. If things stay sour, I will move out sometime next year and start my new life. Until then, I need something to keep me holding on and getting over her. As much as I love her, I know I can do better one day. This has been consuming my mind 24 hours a day and when I'm not working out or sleeping, it's all that's on my mind. Is this worth patching up or am I doing right by sleeping alone and ignoring her?


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## thatbpguy

Tough questions.

Marriage is supposed to be 'for better or for worse', but I guess she didn't get the memo.

The way it appears is that she has checked out if the marriage and is betraying you. Your disability and infirmities are preventing you from being who you once were to her. 

All I can suggest is to communicate the best you can with her and try and come to some understanding about to move forward with your lives. What else can you do?


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## Mr.Fisty

Well there is probably a mental block inside your head, preventing you from being intimate with your wife. Since your not having that bonding sex, your marriage is pretty much dead. You may love your wife, but the trust is no longer there. Each of you probably don't like what the other has become. 

Here is the crossroad. ON one hand, do you tough it out for a year with the probability with things devolving? Or you leave on the best terms possible, accepting that your no longer what each other needs, and hoping things are more amicable? Even before you can work on the marriage, each of you need to fix your own issues. Unfortunately, marriages pretty much needs two healthy individuals, which at the moment, each of you are not. From my prospective, your already detaching, and the year thing will fail.


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## lawdawg

Mr.Fisty said:


> Well there is probably a mental block inside your head, preventing you from being intimate with your wife. Since your not having that bonding sex, your marriage is pretty much dead. You may love your wife, but the trust is no longer there. Each of you probably don't like what the other has become.
> 
> Here is the crossroad. ON one hand, do you tough it out for a year with the probability with things devolving? Or you leave on the best terms possible, accepting that your no longer what each other needs, and hoping things are more amicable? Even before you can work on the marriage, each of you need to fix your own issues. Unfortunately, marriages pretty much needs two healthy individuals, which at the moment, each of you are not. From my prospective, your already detaching, and the year thing will fail.


Well I've been trying to detach but it's hard. I still think about what happened a lot and it doesn't help that we still love together. She thinks that if we separate, we would start to miss each other and maybe we can get back together. Is that how separation works? As far as I'm concerned, we've already been separated when you factor in the detached emotions, cheating, and lack of intimacy.


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## Mr Blunt

> By Lawdawg
> Is it worth trying to patch things up with her?


With what you have told us in your post the answer would be *NOT A CHANCE!*







> By Lawdawg
> I've been told by my therapist that I'm too nice. She says that I am the type of person that will do anything to make everyone else happy even if it means that I'm not happy. She says that I agree with other people's opinions so I can be accepted.


Your therapist is being nice. You are becoming a door mat. Your wife is treating you like shyt and disrespecting you to the highest degree. *You should not be nice about this or agree with your wife so that you can be accepted. Do not allow yourself to be a door mat!*





> By Lawdawg
> As much as I love her, I know I can do better one day


I have no doubt that you can. However, you need to build yourself up emotionally and all other ways. You are a vet that was willing to put your life on the line for your fellow Americans. Regardless if you did put your life on the line or not does not take away from the fact that you were willing. You are the salt of the earth but your disability, and especially your wife, has made you doubt that you are as valuable as you really are.


*Make a plan for ONLY you and your children and your wife is not to take any of your time or emotions.* I know you will not be able to do that all the time but you can gain each week. After some months you will become a lot stronger and not tolerate the disrespect and her treating you like a door mat. *Get all the help that you can and you can be a LOT better in time.*


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## EleGirl

Sexual problems in marriage are usually caused by resentment and anger.

When your wife said that she no longer wanted to give bj's, it was most likely because she was harboring resentments towards you . 

that was the time for the two of you to get to marriage counseling and start working hard to fix things.

Instead you both just pushed forward with more resentment and anger.

As your resentment grew, you developed ED related to your wife. Your are find physically you are just pissed and angry at her.

Unfortunately you both did what a lot of couples do.. you did not communicate well, did not work on your issues, the resentment grew. So here you are now.

I have no doubt that if your wife came here she would give us a list of all the things that she is resentful about and how for a long time she told you over and over about them. 

Now she did something really stupid and had an emotional affair. That is 100% her doing. Not your fault. If she was that unhappy in your marriage she had other, healthier things she could have done... like given you the MC or divorce talk or filed for divorce.

If you want to continue your marriage, I think you need to tell your wife that it's time that the two of you go to marriage counseling. 

If you don't, just file for divorce and get on with your life.

Living in an unhappy marriage will only make your disabilities far worse.


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## EleGirl

lawdawg said:


> Well I've been trying to detach but it's hard. I still think about what happened a lot and it doesn't help that we still love together. Sh*e thinks that if we separate, we would start to miss each other and maybe we can get back together. *Is that how separation works? As far as I'm concerned, we've already been separated when you factor in the detached emotions, cheating, and lack of intimacy.


How did the "separation" of detached emotions, cheating and lack of intimacy work to make you miss each other? It did not do fix anything did it?

Physical separation usually leads to the end of the relationship. How can a couple work on anything if they don't live together?

There are some books that I think will help you. Both of you need to read them and do the work the books say to do. 

"Surviving an Affair" 
"His Needs, Her Needs"
"Love Busters"

all by Dr. Harley


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## lawdawg

That's why I said I wanted a divorce when she said she wanted to separate. I also don't see how being apart is supposed to somehow make us come closer. Either way, we'll always have to be in each others lives since we have kids together. I am starting to work on myself by losing weight and I'm trying to get the confidence I need to move on with my life.


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## Mr.Fisty

And here we are at the crux of the issue. In simplest terms possible. You both have to learn communication and conflict resolution. Communication should convey emotions, and be as clear as possible. Instead of agreeing, if there is something each of you don't understand, then you should ask and clarify. If you need the time to analyze, ask to take a break and seek the time to sort things out, and come back together when things are more leveled.


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## Flying_Dutchman

Lawdawg - Have the VA screened you for PTSD? I ask cuz you have some common symptoms there and too many of you are slipping through the net. If you've been assessed for it, fine, I'll assume you're getting 'best care'.

Depression and low self-esteem come hand in hand. Your 'niceness', when depressed, can easily slip into not sticking up for yourself - anything for a quiet life.

Little to be gained by bashing your selfish wife at the mo'. You really need to be working on you.

Her character flaws aside, if I were your therapist I'd be focusing on the week that began with her begging for another chance and ended with her being indifferent to splitting up. Sure, she's taking advantage of your niceness and being manipulative,, but I'd be looking at your behaviour and how it contributed to her 180 flip.

Your depression and backing down is beyond your niceness. It's taking you into unacceptable territory, the stress builds and you erupt and fight. You've downloaded the D papers and lashed out while in a rage. BIG life decisions shouldn't be made while in any kind of mood.

It may well be that she has to go,, but first you need to step back and consider your options when you're calm. Get yourself some space. 

One last time,, ensure you've been screened for PTSD. If you weren't depressed before your service, "years" is too long for most non-clinical depressions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## notmyrealname4

What does it mean to be a 70% disabled veteran?

I only ask, because you described yourself that way.

Do you think this affects your marriage emotionally/physically.

You said you are working out; so does that mean you are okay physically?

This might be playing a big part in you guy's issues.

I don't know; that detail just stuck out at me is all.

And as far as being a nice guy. Nice guys are great. Not if it gets to doormat levels. But don't give up being a kind, decent human being because your wife is unfaithful.


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## ConanHub

Without overanalyzing this, divorce her. She sucks and is not remorseful at all. She is sorry she got caught.

You deserve an extra dose of respect for being a vet. You are worth a hell of a lot more than this remorseless harlot.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thound

Thank you for your service to our country, and sorry you are going thru this. The first thing you need to do is move back into the master bedroom, and move her sh1t into the guest room.


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## Openminded

I'm very sorry you find yourself in this situation. 

I am not a supporter of separation. It works for some while they are working on the marriage but I think many others use it as an opportunity to cheat. 

No, you didn't drive her to it. If she was that unhappy then she should have said so and gotten out. Instead she did what cheaters generally do and that's find some excitement elsewhere. Few cheaters really want a divorce. They want their safe and secure marriage plus the fun of a shiny new toy too. And they don't ever expect to get caught. 

Now she has been caught so a new marriage (if you do stay with her) has to be negotiated. Just so you know, R is a very hard road and it's full of ups and downs for a very long time. Trust, once it's gone, is difficult to get back. Triggers can last for years. Be prepared.


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## wmn1

lawdawg said:


> I really don't know where to start but I'll say that I found out that my wife cheated on me back in September. It was with an old friend of hers and I found out through her text messages and phone logs. She admitted to an emotional affair with kissing and touching but she would not admit to having sex with him. She even denied the affair for the first week. The only reason why she told the truth was because I talked to the other man and he told me that they had an relationship and that he was sorry. He said it was only emotional and they did not have sex. I told her mother and her sister and they pressured her to tell me the truth.
> 
> 
> 
> ****at least she has good family
> 
> 
> 
> Up until then, she swore that they were just friends and she said that I was just making up everything. I was devastated and I wanted to leave her. The only reason why I decided to stay was for my kids sake and she begged me to give the marriage another shot and said that she was sorry. After about a week of fighting, I tried to get things to go back to normal. I tried to hug and kiss her and I told her that we will find a way to fix things.
> 
> I won't say that I am perfect because I am not. I served 9 years in the military and got injured. I'm a 70% disabled veteran and I receive services from the VA.
> 
> **** That does not make you not perfect. And I am thankful for your service. If anything, it should get you the benefit of the doubt in any issues your marriage has. Your wife has no excuse.
> 
> 
> I've been depressed over the years and went through bouts of suicide and loneliness. I have a few acquaintances and no close friends. I have been seeing a therapist at the VA for the past few years and I have taken medication to help. I've been told by my therapist that I'm too nice. She says that I am the type of person that will do anything to make everyone else happy even if it means that I'm not happy. She says that I agree with other people's opinions so I can be accepted. It kind of hurt to hear that and I didn't even want to believe it. It's funny because she told me that a few years back and now I'm starting to see that it was true.
> 
> I'm only telling this part about myself because it relates to the issues with my wife. We rarely had sex the past few years. When we first got together. Sex was great. Multiple times per day and during the week. A few years back, she said she didn't want to do oral anymore. This made me upset but I (like a dummy) just gave in.
> 
> 
> *** That was the first sign of trouble, her pulling back.
> 
> 
> Then after that, she said that sex is painful and that I was hurting her during sex. I felt really bad about that and that's when the erectile dysfunction started. Since 2010, I've had a really tough time getting it up for her. I've tried cialis and it works sometimes but 90% of the time, I just can't get it up for her. She always blamed me and said that it was my problem.
> 
> 
> 
> *** If she was loyal, she would help you work through the problems.
> 
> 
> She's even asked me a few times if I was gay. I've gotten my testosterone checked and it was fine. It works in the morning when I wake up and I am aroused around other women. Our sex life for the past few years has consisted of me giving her oral and me getting a hand job in return.
> 
> I felt really bad thinking I had a bad problem at such a young age but now after all these years, I'm starting to see that she had just as much to do with this as me (if not more). For one, she always like sleeping with the kids in the room.
> 
> 
> *** How can you get romantic if the kids are in there ??? It is a sign that she is finding ways to avoid romance.
> 
> 
> Even now, our oldest sleeps in a bed on the side of the room and the 3 year old sleeps in the bed with her. I have told her countless times that the kids need to sleep in their own room (we have a 3 bedroom home) and that we can't have sex with them in there. Also, she never really touches me sexually or makes me feel wanted. I don't get massages or bjs or anything else that I hear other men get. Our kisses are pretty much pecks and we've been living like roommates.
> 
> 
> *** She's checked out.
> 
> 
> I've tried giving her compliments and touching her sexually but all she says is thanks. I see now that she has created a environment where it's impossible for us to have sex because she doesn't want to. Even the therapist has told her that the kids should sleep in the other room but she doesn't listen. I know that if she was dating another new man, nobody would have to tell her to put the kids in another room when he came because she would do it automatically.
> 
> 
> 
> **** and hence you have your answer
> 
> 
> There have been other hints over the years too. Before I found out about her affair, I noticed she deleted me from her social media pages.
> 
> 
> *** What is she hiding ?? A spouse should never delete her or his spouse from their page. Not the way to solve issues and it shows they are hiding something.
> 
> 
> If you look at her pictures and status, you would never know she was married to me. For a while, we used to fight because she never wore her ring. She would call me jealous and me being a nice guy, would always give in.
> 
> 
> 
> **** Again, she is a cheat waiting to happen. Oops, it already did.
> 
> 
> 
> So back to what is going on now, she doesn't feel that her affair was her fault. She says that I drove her to cheat.
> 
> 
> **** It is always the cheaters fault, don't forget that
> 
> On top of that, she doesn't even think it was an affair at all since they didn't have sex. I don't even believe that because if we weren't having sex, how could she not sleep with him since she liked him so much?
> 
> 
> 
> *** Your gut feeling has to be that they did and you may be right.
> 
> 
> We had a big fight about a week ago and I told her that I was sorry that I even found out about the affair. I told her is there anyway we can start over and work on our marriage. She said that she thinks that it's better that we separate.
> 
> 
> 
> *** Many cheaters are remorseful and want to stay together, not all. So why is she pushing for this ??? hmmm...
> 
> 
> I told her that if we separate, I am gone for good and I am not coming back. She said "oh you'll be back". What does that even mean??? After that, I told her that I wanted a divorce and I immediately went online and printed out the packet. I filled out what I needed to and I wrote down all the bills and told her that she needs to pay half while I'm living there. She looked sad but just said ok.
> 
> 
> *** Now you have your answer. She has checked out
> 
> 
> I was all set to start the process last Monday but I spoke to my therapist before hand. She told me it might be better to just separate and cool off for a while because I could always start the process later.
> 
> Since then, I've moved all my things to the guest room. When she tries to talk to me, I barely say a word to her. I pretty much just interact with the kids and I've only spoken to her when it's concerning the kids.
> 
> 
> 
> **** I don't like the advice nor do I like your actions. So you separate and you live in a different room, she grows emboldened. So what are you going to do living under the same roof when
> 
> a) She comes home smelling like another guy ?
> b) When she is in the beginning and exciting stages of an affair, you are yesterday's news and while she's going out having a blast, you become the defacto nanny ?
> c) How does this all add up to getting closer later ??? Are you going to say "hey, we separated to work on things, she got banged by another dude a ton of times" and now we are better off as a result ??
> 
> 
> I'm tired of being run over and lied too. I know that I've always been a nice person and that's something that I used to be proud of.
> 
> 
> 
> **** you should be but she will take advantage of this and may even push the new guy in yuor face
> 
> I see now that people (even my own wife) take advantage of that in life. Right now, she has so much confidence that it just makes me furious. She's lost weight and bought new clothes and underwear.
> 
> 
> 
> *** Signs of a physical affair going on here.
> 
> 
> It just makes me upset. Ideally, I would want to work things out but I'm just tired of her trying to run over me. Is it worth trying to patch things up with her?
> 
> 
> 
> **** No. Hell no.
> 
> 
> Would sleeping in the other room lead to more problems down the line? She said before that I'm jealous and she doesn't like that I check her phone. Now, I try not to even look in her direction. It just bothers me all the time because I feel like this last 10 years was taken from me and it's all I can think about.
> 
> 
> *** It was and yes it would lead to more problems. Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer.
> 
> 
> If things stay sour, I will move out sometime next year and start my new life. Until then, I need something to keep me holding on and getting over her. As much as I love her, I know I can do better one day. This has been consuming my mind 24 hours a day and when I'm not working out or sleeping, it's all that's on my mind. Is this worth patching up or am I doing right by sleeping alone and ignoring her?



*** Either go 1000% to fix things or divorce and get the heck out of there. Now is as good a time as any and you are right now Plan B. And your kids watching this debacle growing up will not make them any better


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## ConanHub

wmn1 said:


> *** Either go 1000% to fix things or divorce and get the heck out of there. Now is as good a time as any and you are right now Plan B. And your kids watching this debacle growing up will not make them any better


He had more patience than me. This! Do it!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lawdawg

Thanks for all the advice guys. As of now, I'm not in a financial position to move out so I will be staying in the other room at least for a few months until I can save up some cash and get my own place. It sucks because my oldest has made a few comments about me sleeping in the other room but I told him that I was just reading and I fell asleep.

Every time we talk, it ends up leading to an argument and I get furious. I'm trying to learn to get to the point where nothing she says can bother me or push my buttons. I told her today that I can find another woman that would treat me 1000 times better and I told her that for now on, I consider myself single and she should do the same. She was quiet when I told her all of this and I also told her that she can date who she wants and I don't care who it is. All she said was that she knows that I do care but she is not interesting in dating anyone else. That hurts because no matter how hard I try to pretend that I don't care about her, the truth is that deep down I do care and I don't want to see her with anyone else. For now, I'm just trying to work on myself and get my life back on track so if it doesn't work out, I can move on to something better.


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## lawdawg

wmn1 said:


> *** Either go 1000% to fix things or divorce and get the heck out of there. Now is as good a time as any and you are right now Plan B. And your kids watching this debacle growing up will not make them any better


How could I go 1000% to fix things. The way she is, fixing things would require me to be on my knees begging her to try to fix the marriage. She says she's sorry for what she did but I really don't feel that she means it. She doesn't take 50% of the responsibility for our problems so I don't see how I can fix things unless I put myself down like I've been doing all of our marriage.


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## PreRaphaelite

lawdawg said:


> How could I go 1000% to fix things. The way she is, fixing things would require me to be on my knees begging her to try to fix the marriage. She says she's sorry for what she did but I really don't feel that she means it. She doesn't take 50% of the responsibility for our problems so I don't see how I can fix things unless I put myself down like I've been doing all of our marriage.


She should be taking on more than 50%. She cheated, not you. 

I wouldn't worry so much about where you sleep as long as you don't leave the house. The message you're sending is clear enough whether you're in the den or the master bedroom.

Don't move out. Stay with your kids.

i think the best thing you can do now is push ahead with the divorce. She is showing that she has no intention of doing what's necessary for a real R. That may bring her around and if it doesn't, then you will no longer have to deal with her. 

The way she has treated you shows a woman who cares about herself.


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## NoChoice

OP,
First a few of things. 1) Her affair was, is and always will be her's and her's alone. Someone saying they were "driven" to cheat is just a tactic to sidestep blame. If you had this magical power to make her do things then why not make her love you and all your problems are moot?
2) She had an EA with an "old friend"? How about the next time one of your old buddies comes over he ransacks your house and threatens your children's lives. That is what her "friend" is doing. What kind of friend does that?
3) She stepped out on you and you move out of the bedroom? Move back in and tell her if she wants to move then feel free to do so.
4) Telling her she can date whomever she pleases shows acceptance of her behavior. I know you meant it as a "shock" tool but she isn't seeing it that way. She is seeing it as you not caring enough to fight for her. You even said you didn't really mean it, so stop saying things you don't mean because this will be received by her as indecisive and impetuous. Additionally, you are implying that it is okay for her to break her solemn vow and it is not.

In any event, your next move is to gather your emotions and truly decide what you want to do next. As another poster has said either decide to R and go at it fully or decide to D and go after that fully. The key here is not to be guided so much by emotion but rather by logic.You must put your "buttons" out of her reach so as to remove her power to manipulate you in this situation.

If you decide to R then you will need to alter your behavior so as to gain the upper hand. According to your post, she feels confident that you will always be there and will always come crawling back to her so she feels that she is holding all the cards. She has no reason to be worried. As long as she is confident in this fact, she has no incentive to change. She must be CONVINCED of two things, one, that you absolutely will walk and two, that you are a prize worth not only having but fighting for. The problem is that she has lost respect for you. Be it because of your disability (which is truly sad) or other circumstances in your marriage, either way it's gone and nothing will change until she respects you again.

The sad reality is that people want what they can not have and if she feels that you are no longer "in her back pocket" then she will begin to see you in a whole new light. Will it save your marriage? No one can say but it is almost always the only thing that might. So read up on the 180 plan and work as hard on improving you as you reasonably can if R is what you truly want.

Sadly, in a world of supposed advanced culture, "nice guys finish last" is still an accurate cliche. It begs the question, how far have we truly advanced? A topic for another day.

Thank you for your service and good luck to you.


----------



## G.J.

Lawdaug really think you should tell her that the statement you made 



> I consider myself single and she should do the same. She was quiet when I told her all of this and I also told her that she can date who she wants and I don't care who it is


should be retracted while you are both under the same roof
That is just going to push her into someone's arms.
Just tell her you meant the rest but that was said in the heat of the moment


----------



## Mr Blunt

> I don't see how I can fix things unless *I put myself down like I've been doing all of our marriage. *


Make sure that you fix that permanently!! GET ON THAT NOW!

Right now your wife is no help to you at all. In fact she is tearing you down. Do not waste any time trying to get her to help you she has proven that she is not going to have your best interest in her heart and mind. Use your pain to drive you to keep improving yourself because there is a good chance that you will be completely on your own in the near future.


----------



## lawdawg

G.J. said:


> Lawdaug really think you should tell her that the statement you made
> 
> 
> 
> should be retracted while you are both under the same roof
> That is just going to push her into someone's arms.
> Just tell her you meant the rest but that was said in the heat of the moment


I thought by telling her this, she would see that I don't care about her like I used to. I used to be worried about her wondering how her day was and trying to bond. Now I pretty much told her that I don't care who or what she does. It was said in the heat of the moment and yes, I didn't mean it but it's something I'm going to have to get used to anyway if we don't repair the marriage.


----------



## lawdawg

NoChoice said:


> OP,
> First a few of things. 1) Her affair was, is and always will be her's and her's alone. Someone saying they were "driven" to cheat is just a tactic to sidestep blame. If you had this magical power to make her do things then why not make her love you and all your problems are moot?
> 2) She had an EA with an "old friend"? How about the next time one of your old buddies comes over he ransacks your house and threatens your children's lives. That is what her "friend" is doing. What kind of friend does that?
> 3) She stepped out on you and you move out of the bedroom? Move back in and tell her if she wants to move then feel free to do so.
> 4) Telling her she can date whomever she pleases shows acceptance of her behavior. I know you meant it as a "shock" tool but she isn't seeing it that way. She is seeing it as you not caring enough to fight for her. You even said you didn't really mean it, so stop saying things you don't mean because this will be received by her as indecisive and impetuous. Additionally, you are implying that it is okay for her to break her solemn vow and it is not.
> 
> In any event, your next move is to gather your emotions and truly decide what you want to do next. As another poster has said either decide to R and go at it fully or decide to D and go after that fully. The key here is not to be guided so much by emotion but rather by logic.You must put your "buttons" out of her reach so as to remove her power to manipulate you in this situation.
> 
> If you decide to R then you will need to alter your behavior so as to gain the upper hand. According to your post, she feels confident that you will always be there and will always come crawling back to her so she feels that she is holding all the cards. She has no reason to be worried. As long as she is confident in this fact, she has no incentive to change. She must be CONVINCED of two things, one, that you absolutely will walk and two, that you are a prize worth not only having but fighting for. The problem is that she has lost respect for you. Be it because of your disability (which is truly sad) or other circumstances in your marriage, either way it's gone and nothing will change until she respects you again.
> 
> The sad reality is that people want what they can not have and if she feels that you are no longer "in her back pocket" then she will begin to see you in a whole new light. Will it save your marriage? No one can say but it is almost always the only thing that might. So read up on the 180 plan and work as hard on improving you as you reasonably can if R is what you truly want.
> 
> Sadly, in a world of supposed advanced culture, "nice guys finish last" is still an accurate cliche. It begs the question, how far have we truly advanced? A topic for another day.
> 
> Thank you for your service and good luck to you.


A couple things stuck out to me. How exactly does one put their buttons out of reach? I've tried so hard to remain calm and have a normal conversation but every single time, she knows exactly what to say to get me fired up. I don't know if she does it on purpose but most of our fights ends up with my yelling and angry.

Yesterday, I was thinking about the lack of sex a lot so I asked her if she thinks that she shares some of the responsibility for the lack of sex. She said that the problem is mine because she was fine sexually. I asked her if she had another man come to the house for sex, would that man need to tell her to send the kids to the other room or would she do it on her own without him saying anything. Of course in my mind, I know she would accomodate him and have the bedroom all nice with the kids gone so she could be with him. Anyway, she didn't want to answer me and said that she doesn't have to answer that question. We went back and forth on it and it just got me fired up for no reason. She thinks she doesn't need to explain herself to me even though we've been married for 10 years.

As far as telling her that she can date who she wants, I don't know how I can retract that without looking weak. Deep down, I want this woman to change and I want to reboot my marriage. I don't want to see her with someone else right now but I'm trying to show her that I can forget her and move on with my life if need be. I told her literally that she can **** anyone she wants and I don't care. It's funny every time I talk about dating other women or getting someone much better than she. She never really says anything but I can tell that she doesn't like the thought of me being with someone else. Should that bring me any hope to saving my marriage? We are meeting with the therapist on Monday and I really don't know how things will go. My whole life is a mess right now.


----------



## lawdawg

Mr Blunt said:


> Make sure that you fix that permanently!! GET ON THAT NOW!
> 
> Right now your wife is no help to you at all. In fact she is tearing you down. Do not waste any time trying to get her to help you she has proven that she is not going to have your best interest in her heart and mind. Use your pain to drive you to keep improving yourself because there is a good chance that you will be completely on your own in the near future.


I am I really am trying. It's hard right now because it's always on my mind but I'm hoping it gets easier with time. If we are able to repair the marriage, the only way I'm in is if we are able to take 50/50 responsibility of all the problems. I took 100% of every problem we had before and this is what it got me.


----------



## azteca1986

lawdawg said:


> A couple things stuck out to me. How exactly does one put their buttons out of reach? I've tried so hard to remain calm and have a normal conversation but every single time, she knows exactly what to say to get me fired up. *I don't know if she does it on purpose* but most of our fights ends up with my yelling and angry.


Of course it's on purpose, friend. She can push your buttons like no one else on the planet. It's true of all our wives.

The only effective way to stop arguments ending in you losing it, is to remove yourself from her. "I don't see it that way" and get yourself away from her.

She does this because all cheaters give themselves permission to cheat. They know what they're doing is wrong. So, they pick petty fights - proof that you are unreasonable, 'always' angry, etc. And then they go ahead and cheat.

Don't be her pawn. If you can't control yourself, perfectly understandable BTW - being backstabbed and blamed for their cheating is going to make you furious., get away from her.

As for being "driven to cheat", we hear that a lot here. How about zing this back at her? "If I can make you cheat, how come I can't make you NOT CHEAT? That's what I expected, but apparently I have no control over you". Then get the hell outta there.


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## lawdawg

azteca1986 said:


> Of course it's on purpose, friend. She can push your buttons like no one else on the planet. It's true of all our wives.
> 
> The only effective way to stop arguments ending in you losing it, is to remove yourself from her. "I don't see it that way" and get yourself away from her.
> 
> She does this because all cheaters give themselves permission to cheat. They know what they're doing is wrong. So, they pick petty fights - proof that you are unreasonable, 'always' angry, etc. And then they go ahead and cheat.
> 
> Don't be her pawn. If you can't control yourself, perfectly understandable BTW - being backstabbed and blamed for their cheating is going to make you furious., get away from her.
> 
> As for being "driven to cheat", we hear that a lot here. How about zing this back at her? "If I can make you cheat, how come I can't make you NOT CHEAT? That's what I expected, but apparently I have no control over you". Then get the hell outta there.


Thanks for that. I'm going to give that a try. Anytime she tries to fire me up, I'll just tell her that I don't see it that way and I'll just walk away. If I stay and argue, all that's going to happen is unproductive arguing and yelling. It's funny because when I first found out about the cheating. She came around to saying that she was sorry and wanted to work on the marriage. Now she's twisted it around to saying that it was my fault and she's only human. I hope this gets easier over time because right now, it really sucks.


----------



## azteca1986

lawdawg said:


> Thanks for that. I'm going to give that a try. Anytime she tries to fire me up, I'll just tell her that I don't see it that way and I'll just walk away. If I stay and argue, all that's going to happen is unproductive arguing and yelling.


Another good one is "I'm sorry you feel that way." It's the perfect response to a tirade from your WW that outlines your failings (note, how she's allowed to be 'human', but you're not). The key thing is whatever you say, you say calmly. And then, you walk away. It'll p*ss her off. Not a problem. P*ssed off wives are part and parcel of a marriage. Cheating wives are not.



> It's funny because when I first found out about the cheating. She came around to saying that she was sorry and wanted to work on the marriage. Now she's twisted it around to saying that it was my fault and she's only human.


You have to understand the psychology of cheaters - it's so similar and predictable we call it the Cheater's Script here. As soon as you talk Reconciliation, without her showing true remorse, she'll turn her betrayal back on you. She's been demonising you to anyone who has her ear (OM, girlfriends) for some time and that behaviour won't change over night.

*You never, ever accept any responsibility for her cheating*. Once that message gets through to her, you can think about the gift of Reconciliation that you _might_ give. It's your choice.

Cheaters really believe they are special, because they have two men after them. Forget about the dating comment. What was important there, is that you told her that you are willing to move on. Suddenly she's gone from two men, to potentially *no* men.


> I hope this gets easier over time because right now, it really sucks.


Hopefully it will. You have to be strong. Keep your cool. And counter-intuitive though it might be, moving on (such as _preparing_ for Divorce - it's a long process) is the best way to get your WW back into the marriage.


----------



## BobSimmons

lawdawg said:


> I thought by telling her this, she would see that I don't care about her like I used to. I used to be worried about her wondering how her day was and trying to bond. Now I pretty much told her that I don't care who or what she does. It was said in the heat of the moment and yes, I didn't mean it but it's something I'm going to have to get used to anyway if we don't repair the marriage.


You want to use words to hurt don't you? Or maybe hurt is too strong a word, to get a reaction from her?

You're in a war of attrition, you want R and full remorse and you're getting none of it, so you desperately want to get a reaction from her..but your words are not sincere.

If she left the house to go to a bar and act single as you said she should you'd be furious and pissed off wouldn't you? And you know you have no intention of doing like wise because you want R and you don't want to push her away.

You have a mule that doesn't want to go anywhere, no use in putting that rope around and trying to drag it where you want to go in the record time you require. The mule will move when it gets thirsty or hungry.

Your wife has no impetus to change. She's still married, has a roof over her head, her life is fine, and no amount of name calling, prodding or jousting is going to move her to R in the time you want.

Detach, stop engaging her, stop the arguing, do not get baited by her into arguments and most importantly stop saying stuff you don't mean and have no intention of following up on because you want to score little points!

Work on yourself, spend time with your kids, let her see you getting on with your life without depending on her. Remove the point scoring and trying to make her hurt, remove this being all about her and you'll start to make progress in your life.


----------



## lawdawg

azteca1986 said:


> Another good one is "I'm sorry you feel that way." It's the perfect response to a tirade from your WW that outlines your failings (note, how she's allowed to be 'human', but you're not). The key thing is whatever you say, you say calmly. And then, you walk away. It'll p*ss her off. Not a problem. P*ssed off wives are part and parcel of a marriage. Cheating wives are not.
> 
> You have to understand the psychology of cheaters - it's so similar and predictable we call it the Cheater's Script here. As soon as you talk Reconciliation, without her showing true remorse, she'll turn her betrayal back on you. She's been demonising you to anyone who has her ear (OM, girlfriends) for some time and that behaviour won't change over night.
> 
> *You never, ever accept any responsibility for her cheating*. Once that message gets through to her, you can think about the gift of Reconciliation that you _might_ give. It's your choice.
> 
> Cheaters really believe they are special, because they have two men after them. Forget about the dating comment. What was important there, is that you told her that you are willing to move on. Suddenly she's gone from two men, to potentially *no* men.
> Hopefully it will. You have to be strong. Keep your cool. And counter-intuitive though it might be, moving on (such as _preparing_ for Divorce - it's a long process) is the best way to get your WW back into the marriage.


I don't know how many men are in the loop but she has told me a few times that the guy she cheated with has no intention of leaving his wife. The way it came out, it was in a way to suggest that she wanted him to leave his wife so they could be together. I've also checked her computer history since then (I try not to check but it's hard not too when I'm home alone) and I see that she looks at his facebook pics all the time. Also, I sent her a friend request last night and I see that she declined it.

I did screw up also the other day before I posted here by telling her I was sorry I snooped and sorry that I found out about everything. I asked her if we had another chance and that's when she suggested we separate. I didn't even believe what I said but I only said it as a last resort to try and save my marriage. Her response really woke me up and you are right, I will not fix things unless she takes responsiblity for what she did. Since I've been reading here, I've learned that she takes all the responsiblity for what she did. Human or not. She shouldn't had cheated.


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## Suspecting2014

Did you expose ti OM wife?


----------



## lawdawg

BobSimmons said:


> You want to use words to hurt don't you? Or maybe hurt is too strong a word, to get a reaction from her?
> 
> You're in a war of attrition, you want R and full remorse and you're getting none of it, so you desperately want to get a reaction from her..but your words are not sincere.
> 
> If she left the house to go to a bar and act single as you said she should you'd be furious and pissed off wouldn't you? And you know you have no intention of doing like wise because you want R and you don't want to push her away.
> 
> You have a mule that doesn't want to go anywhere, no use in putting that rope around and trying to drag it where you want to go in the record time you require. The mule will move when it gets thirsty or hungry.
> 
> Your wife has no impetus to change. She's still married, has a roof over her head, her life is fine, and no amount of name calling, prodding or jousting is going to move her to R in the time you want.
> 
> Detach, stop engaging her, stop the arguing, do not get baited by her into arguments and most importantly stop saying stuff you don't mean and have no intention of following up on because you want to score little points!
> 
> Work on yourself, spend time with your kids, let her see you getting on with your life without depending on her. Remove the point scoring and trying to make her hurt, remove this being all about her and you'll start to make progress in your life.


You're absolutely right. She's said so much to hurt me that I have been trying to piss her off by coming up with my own quips even if they aren't true. I'm already trying to detach myself and move on but one of the main problems I'm having is finding that balance of communication. Normally, I'm pretty friendly and always engaging her in conversation but now, I barely say a word to her unless it's absolutely necessary but it creates a strong tension between us. I'm working on creating that balance where I can engage in normal conversation with her without talking about the marriage and I'm working on showing her that I'm moving on. Thanks for all the help btw. This has been really helpful and I've learned a lot over the past few days.


----------



## azteca1986

lawdawg said:


> I don't know how many men are in the loop but she has told me a few times that the guy she cheated with has no intention of leaving his wife.


That's the general pattern. WW looks for your replacement, the OM is only looking for a bit on the side. This is part of why she blames you. Otherwise she'd have to face the truth of what she really meant to her OM. Nothing.

Have you told his poor wife? She deserves to know.



> I did screw up also the other day before I posted here by telling her I was sorry I snooped and sorry that I found out about everything. I asked her if we had another chance and that's when she suggested we separate. I didn't even believe what I said but I only said it as a last resort to try and save my marriage. Her response really woke me up and you are right, I will not fix things unless she takes responsiblity for what she did. Since I've been reading here, I've learned that she takes all the responsiblity for what she did. Human or not. She shouldn't had cheated.


Good. You're getting it and how these things work. Everyone makes mistakes, especially with betrayal. We're not born knowing what to do. Don't worry. You can always tell her you've been thinking and you feel you deserve better than a cheating, remorseless wife. Two men to No men.


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## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Wife cheated on me. I need advice on what to do next*



lawdawg said:


> I thought by telling her this, she would see that I don't care about her like I used to. I used to be worried about her wondering how her day was and trying to bond. Now I pretty much told her that I don't care who or what she does. It was said in the heat of the moment and yes, I didn't mean it but it's something I'm going to have to get used to anyway if we don't repair the marriage.


Show it through actions, not words brother.


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## farsidejunky

Read this lawdawg:

So many on here are at a loss at what to do with a WS who is
fence sitting, cake-eating, ignoring boundaries, still seeing and/or contacting the other person, etc...

Many BS's are urged to go No Contact with their WS after ALL ELSE has failed.


This 180 list may help.
--------------------------


For those that are interested in Michelle Weiner Davis's divorce busting 180 degree list, here it is:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow him/her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
23. Do not argue about how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and possibly walk away.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because they are hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.


Two things to think about if you do this:

1) You have to do the 180 list NOT to be manipulative but because it's the right thing to do for you. You have to heal from this experience. You have to back off for your own sanity now. You have to have a plan and know that you will be a better person with or without them after all is said and done -- that you will live and learn and move on no matter what. So you have to be geniune when you follow these ideas, rather than faking it and being insincere because your only goal is to get them back. That's not what you want to do. Having a certain person as our spouse is not a need, it's a want. When I wrote down a list of all the definite needs in my life, I realized that almost everything beyond food, clothing and shelter is a want. 10 seconds after I looked at the list, I stopped making decisions based on emotion. That's when I realized that my wanting to have her was causing me to beg and plead for her to come back. That was driving her away more so I stopped doing it immediately. In doing my own version of the 180 list I could tell nearly an immediate change. B in her behavior.

2) Realize that when your spouse sees your new attitude they are very likely to be a little jealous or at least have some curiosity about what's going on in your life to cause this change. However, they very well may react the same way towards you for some time (especially if they read books or go to message boards also). REALIZE that this tactic can also work simultaneously on you if the spouse begins to likewise. Be aware of it and plan to have your own feelings of jealousy and curiosity in advance. However, like with #1 above, if you're doing the 180 list to better yourself and everyone involved, then it will matter less what they are doing.


----------



## wmn1

lawdawg said:


> Thanks for all the advice guys. As of now, I'm not in a financial position to move out so I will be staying in the other room at least for a few months until I can save up some cash and get my own place. It sucks because my oldest has made a few comments about me sleeping in the other room but I told him that I was just reading and I fell asleep.
> 
> Every time we talk, it ends up leading to an argument and I get furious. I'm trying to learn to get to the point where nothing she says can bother me or push my buttons. I told her today that I can find another woman that would treat me 1000 times better and I told her that for now on, I consider myself single and she should do the same. She was quiet when I told her all of this and I also told her that she can date who she wants and I don't care who it is. All she said was that she knows that I do care but she is not interesting in dating anyone else. That hurts because no matter how hard I try to pretend that I don't care about her, the truth is that deep down I do care and I don't want to see her with anyone else. For now, I'm just trying to work on myself and get my life back on track so if it doesn't work out, I can move on to something better.


If you care, then why are you giving her the 'green light' to cheat ??? Then if she does, she can throw it all back at you and say you gave her consent. It makes no sense.

You should go back and say you were 'testing her' with those comments, you are glad that her interest is only in you, you are moving back into the main bedroom and working things out OR
You should tell her it's completely over, and if she sees anyone else before you move out (which it sounds like you'll do anyway), that dude is not allowed around the house and kids.

Your problem is a lack of decisiveness. You are scoring small points by comments but setting yourself up for the biggest fall of all

And no, it's not going to work out if you tell her she can cheat. Because ultimately she will


----------



## wmn1

lawdawg said:


> How could I go 1000% to fix things. The way she is, fixing things would require me to be on my knees begging her to try to fix the marriage. She says she's sorry for what she did but I really don't feel that she means it. She doesn't take 50% of the responsibility for our problems so I don't see how I can fix things unless I put myself down like I've been doing all of our marriage.


then divorce. But stop finding reasons to try and work on things. There is no gray area here and separation is not going to help, especially with you living under the same roof. Legally, you may not want to leave for reasons of the divorce but at the same time, if you stay there and think things could work, you will be paying the price for your 'keeping hopes alive'. It's over or it's not. If it's not, then get into MC, if it is, then get the ball rolling


----------



## MachoMcCoy

You know she doesn't love you any more right?


----------



## NoChoice

lawdawg said:


> A couple things stuck out to me. How exactly does one put their buttons out of reach? I've tried so hard to remain calm and have a normal conversation but every single time, she knows exactly what to say to get me fired up. I don't know if she does it on purpose but most of our fights ends up with my yelling and angry.


She does it to gain the tactical advantage. She puts you on the defense so you have to fend her off and justify yourself instead of the other way around. By reigning in your emotions you remove her tactical advantage causing her to have to go on the defensive. When we react out of emotion it is a clear signal to the "enemy" (for lack of a better word) that their offensive strike has hit paydirt.

You must control your responses and react rationally in order to let her know her missile missed the target. Then she will be out of ammunition. It is hard to do for most but not impossible and it is necessary. One of my favorite lines is "just because you say it does not make it so, your words do not have the power to change reality despite what you may think". Those types of responses will disarm her attack and make her have to defend.



> Yesterday, I was thinking about the lack of sex a lot so I asked her if she thinks that she shares some of the responsibility for the lack of sex. She said that the problem is mine because she was fine sexually. I asked her if she had another man come to the house for sex, would that man need to tell her to send the kids to the other room or would she do it on her own without him saying anything. Of course in my mind, I know she would accomodate him and have the bedroom all nice with the kids gone so she could be with him. Anyway, she didn't want to answer me and said that she doesn't have to answer that question. We went back and forth on it and it just got me fired up for no reason. She thinks she doesn't need to explain herself to me even though we've been married for 10 years.


A marriage is a shared union, period. No one person can make a marriage successful without the cooperation and involvement of the other person. For her to claim that she was not at all responsible for the problem with your sex life is actually an admittance of guilt. Not involved=not responsible? Nope. She is shifting all of the blame to you when her lack of involvement IS responsible for at least half, possibly more and by saying that she accepts no responsibility for it is a clear indication that she doesn't care which makes her very responsible.



> As far as telling her that she can date who she wants, I don't know how I can retract that without looking weak. Deep down, I want this woman to change and I want to reboot my marriage. I don't want to see her with someone else right now but I'm trying to show her that I can forget her and move on with my life if need be. I told her literally that she can **** anyone she wants and I don't care. It's funny every time I talk about dating other women or getting someone much better than she. She never really says anything but I can tell that she doesn't like the thought of me being with someone else. Should that bring me any hope to saving my marriage? We are meeting with the therapist on Monday and I really don't know how things will go. My whole life is a mess right now.


Sure you can. You simply tell her that you spoke out of anger and hurt. Tell her that as long as she is your wife she cannot ****, date, run with, sext, email, facebook, or in any other way have contact with another man that isn't completely platonic and you are the judge of what is or is not acceptable. Any breach of this rule will result in immediate termination of your marriage. If she wants to date or fool around tell her she is free to do so AFTER your contract (marriage) has been properly terminated. By doing this, you stop her from testing the waters, so to speak, while still having you as a safety net in case it doesn't work out with any other man.

If she wants to take the risk then she hast to take the FULL risk. Again, she has lost respect for you and statements like the one about you not caring who she ****s is not helping your cause. She knows you care and expects you to care and that is where her power comes from. What you must do is to rationally make her understand that you do care but that you will not accept insolence, period. If she cannot respect you as she should then you will find someone who will.

I don't mean to put words in your mouth and presume I know your total situation from a few posts. These are merely suggestions based on what I know both from your posts and from life expereinces. Good luck.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> ]By Lawdawg[/B]
> She doesn't take 50% of the responsibility for our problems so I don't see how I can fix things unless I put myself down like I've been doing all of our marriage.
> The only way I'm in is if we are able to take 50/50 responsibility of all the problems
> Now she's twisted it around to saying that it was my fault and she's only human
> I see that she looks at his Facebook pics all the time. Also, I sent her a friend request last night and I see that she declined it.
> Deep down, I want this woman to change and I want to reboot my marriage.



Lawdawg
You want her more than she wants you so you are at a huge disadvantage. Furthermore she is treating you very disrespectful and tearing you down. She looks at the OM on Facebook all the time and refuses your request to be friends. *When are you going to face reality and stand up and get busy being ready to be single?* The longer you keep trying to find a way to get her back the more you go down because she does not have your best interest at heart or mind.


You say that the only way you are in is if she takes 50% of the responsibility but you said that she will not do that. You want her to change but she has not changed at all. If you do not stand up and get yourself in a condition to live without her you will become a mush ball and a door mat. 


At this time your wife has replaced you with the OM and you should take action right away.* That action means that you use your pain, hurt, and anger to get yourself in the condition that you can live without her and that she does not have a huge effect on your life.* Failure to do this and you will be pathetic in a short time.


Unless your wife changes 180 degrees IMMEDIATELY you will be severely damaged if you are not already!


----------



## carmen ohio

lawdawg said:


> . . . I've been told by my therapist that I'm too nice. She says that I am the type of person that will do anything to make everyone else happy even if it means that I'm not happy. She says that I agree with other people's opinions so I can be accepted. It kind of hurt to hear that and I didn't even want to believe it. It's funny because she told me that a few years back and now I'm starting to see that it was true . . .


Dear lawdawg,

First, let me thank you for your service.

You face a number of serious problems and, IMO, your marriage is not the most important one. Rather, as you yourself indicate, you need to rebuild your life and prepare for a better future. That requires that you regain your self-confidence and independence.

Based on what your therapist told you, it sounds like you suffer from what is commonly called the _'nice guy'_ syndrome. It is a form of codependence.

Please download _"No More Mr. Nice Guy"_ by Dr. Robert Glover. Here's the link: https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf. Read it and do the exercises. It can help you.


----------



## lawdawg

Mr Blunt said:


> Lawdawg
> You want her more than she wants you so you are at a huge disadvantage. Furthermore she is treating you very disrespectful and tearing you down. She looks at the OM on Facebook all the time and refuses your request to be friends. *When are you going to face reality and stand up and get busy being ready to be single?* The longer you keep trying to find a way to get her back the more you go down because she does not have your best interest at heart or mind.
> 
> 
> You say that the only way you are in is if she takes 50% of the responsibility but you said that she will not do that. You want her to change but she has not changed at all. If you do not stand up and get yourself in a condition to live without her you will become a mush ball and a door mat.
> 
> 
> At this time your wife has replaced you with the OM and you should take action right away.* That action means that you use your pain, hurt, and anger to get yourself in the condition that you can live without her and that she does not have a huge effect on your life.* Failure to do this and you will be pathetic in a short time.
> 
> 
> Unless your wife changes 180 degrees IMMEDIATELY you will be severely damaged if you are not already!
> [/SIZE]


I'd say that I'm already severely damaged considering that this whole ordeal has been consuming my mind and time and I'm struggling to get through my day without feeling down and out about what happened. I'm working to build myself up to where I can live without her but honestly, I can't even see myself getting to that point right now. Maybe it'll get easier over time so for now, I'll just continue to read and work on myself and try to do things to get my mind off of her.


----------



## lawdawg

NoChoice said:


> She does it to gain the tactical advantage. She puts you on the defense so you have to fend her off and justify yourself instead of the other way around. By reigning in your emotions you remove her tactical advantage causing her to have to go on the defensive. When we react out of emotion it is a clear signal to the "enemy" (for lack of a better word) that their offensive strike has hit paydirt.
> 
> You must control your responses and react rationally in order to let her know her missile missed the target. Then she will be out of ammunition. It is hard to do for most but not impossible and it is necessary. One of my favorite lines is "just because you say it does not make it so, your words do not have the power to change reality despite what you may think". Those types of responses will disarm her attack and make her have to defend.
> 
> 
> 
> A marriage is a shared union, period. No one person can make a marriage successful without the cooperation and involvement of the other person. For her to claim that she was not at all responsible for the problem with your sex life is actually an admittance of guilt. Not involved=not responsible? Nope. She is shifting all of the blame to you when her lack of involvement IS responsible for at least half, possibly more and by saying that she accepts no responsibility for it is a clear indication that she doesn't care which makes her very responsible.
> 
> 
> 
> Sure you can. You simply tell her that you spoke out of anger and hurt. Tell her that as long as she is your wife she cannot ****, date, run with, sext, email, facebook, or in any other way have contact with another man that isn't completely platonic and you are the judge of what is or is not acceptable. Any breach of this rule will result in immediate termination of your marriage. If she wants to date or fool around tell her she is free to do so AFTER your contract (marriage) has been properly terminated. By doing this, you stop her from testing the waters, so to speak, while still having you as a safety net in case it doesn't work out with any other man.
> 
> If she wants to take the risk then she hast to take the FULL risk. Again, she has lost respect for you and statements like the one about you not caring who she ****s is not helping your cause. She knows you care and expects you to care and that is where her power comes from. What you must do is to rationally make her understand that you do care but that you will not accept insolence, period. If she cannot respect you as she should then you will find someone who will.
> 
> I don't mean to put words in your mouth and presume I know your total situation from a few posts. These are merely suggestions based on what I know both from your posts and from life expereinces. Good luck.


I'll bring it up on Monday at the therapist since that's the only environment that I think we can talk without me losing my cool. I'll tell her that I won't tolerate her bringing other men to the house or around my sons while I'm there. As far as telling her she can't date other men in general, what's the point in that? I've been telling her that for years and she still did it behind my back. The clues have been there for years and I'm sure there are other guys that I don't know about. The point I'm making is that even if I tell her not to see/talk to other men, she's just going to do it if she wants. That's why I told her that I don't care because I thought that would make it easier for me to move on.


----------



## lawdawg

farsidejunky said:


> Read this lawdawg:
> 
> So many on here are at a loss at what to do with a WS who is
> fence sitting, cake-eating, ignoring boundaries, still seeing and/or contacting the other person, etc...
> 
> Many BS's are urged to go No Contact with their WS after ALL ELSE has failed.
> 
> 
> This 180 list may help.
> --------------------------
> 
> 
> For those that are interested in Michelle Weiner Davis's divorce busting 180 degree list, here it is:
> 
> 1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
> 2. No frequent phone calls.
> 3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
> 4. Do not follow him/her around the house.
> 5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
> 6. Do not ask for help from family members.
> 7. Do not ask for reassurances.
> 8. Do not buy gifts.
> 9. Do not schedule dates together.
> 10. Do not spy on spouse.
> 11. Do not say "I Love You".
> 12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
> 13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
> 14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
> 15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
> 16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
> 17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
> 18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
> 19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around.
> 20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
> 21. Never lose your cool.
> 22. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
> 23. Do not argue about how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger).
> 24. Be patient
> 25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
> 26. Learn to back off, shut up and possibly walk away.
> 27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
> 28. Be strong and confident.
> 29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
> 30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
> 31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
> 32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because they are hurting and scared.
> 33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
> 34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.
> 
> 
> Two things to think about if you do this:
> 
> 1) You have to do the 180 list NOT to be manipulative but because it's the right thing to do for you. You have to heal from this experience. You have to back off for your own sanity now. You have to have a plan and know that you will be a better person with or without them after all is said and done -- that you will live and learn and move on no matter what. So you have to be geniune when you follow these ideas, rather than faking it and being insincere because your only goal is to get them back. That's not what you want to do. Having a certain person as our spouse is not a need, it's a want. When I wrote down a list of all the definite needs in my life, I realized that almost everything beyond food, clothing and shelter is a want. 10 seconds after I looked at the list, I stopped making decisions based on emotion. That's when I realized that my wanting to have her was causing me to beg and plead for her to come back. That was driving her away more so I stopped doing it immediately. In doing my own version of the 180 list I could tell nearly an immediate change. B in her behavior.
> 
> 2) Realize that when your spouse sees your new attitude they are very likely to be a little jealous or at least have some curiosity about what's going on in your life to cause this change. However, they very well may react the same way towards you for some time (especially if they read books or go to message boards also). REALIZE that this tactic can also work simultaneously on you if the spouse begins to likewise. Be aware of it and plan to have your own feelings of jealousy and curiosity in advance. However, like with #1 above, if you're doing the 180 list to better yourself and everyone involved, then it will matter less what they are doing.


I've started to do a few things on that list but not all. It's really hard because it seems like she's also following the list. She seems distant, doesn't speak unless spoken to, and very happy. She is not the type to read or go on message boards but she has a lot of friends who give her "advice". It hurts because it creates a lot of tension especially when the kids are not at home. I'm assuming it should get easier over time.


----------



## NoChoice

Lawdawg,
I do understand your pain and your hesitance in standing up to your wife. Unfortunately, until you reach that place where you can see life without her, as she is now, as not only better but beneficial to your continued well being, then this will be your struggle.

Women respect authority and they find strong males attractive. It's in their genes so that their offspring can have the best chance to propagate. Weak males are disregarded as substandard breeding stock. You would think that as we evolve into a higher state of being that their intellect would be able to override their instinct but sadly, it is not the case for many. So, until your wife evolves, which is not likely, or you stand up and put your foot down, then this scenario will continue to play out.

All any of us here can do is to try to be your shoulder to cry on until you feel capable of enacting some consequences for her actions. I am sorry you have to deal with this but you are not alone. Many here have walked this dark road. Good luck.


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## PreRaphaelite

lawdawg said:


> I've started to do a few things on that list but not all. It's really hard because it seems like she's also following the list. She seems distant, doesn't speak unless spoken to, and very happy. She is not the type to read or go on message boards but she has a lot of friends who give her "advice". It hurts because it creates a lot of tension especially when the kids are not at home. I'm assuming it should get easier over time.


All the more reason to keep doing the 180. If she's checked out of the marriage then you need to move on even more than before. That's what the 180 is for.


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## Divinely Favored

HAVE YOU NOTIFIED POSOMS WIFE!!!! She could still be seeing him. You need his wife watching him. She can make her POSWS block your wife so they do not continue to have that link. She can see him and him her through adultrybook. She continues to get her fix by seeing him there or in person.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64

lawdawg

Stop piling on the hurt and she needs to dot he same.

And if your wife pushes for a separation then you tell her to leave the home.

And if you truly separate then make it clear between both of you what the conditions/boundaries of the separation truly are. 

Put it in writing and you both agree to it.

Glad you are going for counseling. You are both hurting. She owns the affair.

And maybe your wife is happy or just faking it.

You need to decide what is going to bring you happiness in life with her or without her.

It starts from within. Now get to it soldier.

HM


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## the guy

lawdawg said:


> I told her today that I can find another woman that would treat me 1000 times better


I think it's time to put your money were your mouth is and start looking for that women.

Granted if you do find that women your old lady will turn it all around on you.....but at the end of ther day you sure will have fun looking

Hell if you do get crap from your old lady for looking for a better women at least you told her first....your old lady on the other hand, didn't give you that kind of curtousy.

At the very least ...it's time to get your self out there and meet people...good people.


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## the guy

BTW....your old lady is still screwing around she just hasn't found the right guy yet.....but she's looking!


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## 6301

lawdawg said:


> I've started to do a few things on that list but not all. It's really hard because it seems like she's also following the list. She seems distant, doesn't speak unless spoken to, and very happy. She is not the type to read or go on message boards but she has a lot of friends who give her "advice". It hurts because it creates a lot of tension especially when the kids are not at home. I'm assuming it should get easier over time.


 Two reasons why. First she knows what buttons to push with you because she knows you'll do nothing about it so in other words, she's got your number and if you continue to let her then expect more.

Another reason is because she's way ahead of you. Your at the beginning of the book and what your just finding out is she's the one who wrote it so she knows the plot.

Understand this, you each take 50% responsibility in the marriage but she takes 100% for her affair. She's blaming you for it and will continue until you stop her. 

If it was me, I would let her know that if she wants the guy and wants out, then point to the door and tell her to move on and I wouldn't ask any more questions and just let her alone. Sooner or later she has to have questions answered and then you can take your time and let her squirm


----------



## lawdawg

Well we had the counseling session earlier today. She doesn't want to stay together at this point. She says that we should separate or divorce. Her reasoning for wanting a divorce is because I printed the packet last week and came up with the idea. She said she initially wanted to separate and the counselor thought is was a good idea. He said that we should come up with a plan on separation and try to set boundaries. I really don't know how separating will help us though. She thinks that if we separate, we will start to miss each other and maybe we can start over. I really don't see things that way. I mean, what will I miss? Getting cheated on? Being lied 2? Being plan B? That's why I was quick to ask for a divorce last week. I do regret asking for a divorce now because now she is running with the idea. In my mind, we've been separated for a long time now. Now she even said at counseling that separation may not work since things won't change anyway. She barely takes any of the responsibilty for what has happened. She claims she's human. Well hello ***** I'm human too. you need intimacy? I need it too! We talked about sex and I explained to them how she's created an environment where we can't have sex. She's never shown me any intimacy for the past 2 years. Back when things were better. I tried hard to be intimate. I would give her massages or sneak up on her and kiss her on the neck. I would send her I love you texts at work and I would send flowers to her job. My day revolves around the kids and taking classes during the day and working at night. I don't have all the time in the world to be running behind her but I thought the sacrifice of what I was doing was going to pay off one day. So I asked her today at counseling why she cheated on me and you know what the answer was? It was because he showed her attention. I feel like I have been wasting my energy on this woman and I felt so hurt by that. Every time I tried to show her love and attention, I never got any back and it in turn made me feel insecure and I thought something was wrong with me. I really just can't understand how things have come to this. She wants attention but all she does is come home and sit on her ass watching hulu and netflix.

I feel that she has been using me to maintain the family and household while she goes out to have fun. Between my disability and my work, all our bills are covered. Before then, I would let her keep her salary to buy whatever she wants. The only thing she was responsible for was the electricity bill. So I gave her a list last week and said that she is responsible for half of the house note, my son's school tuition, cell phone bill, and our car insurance. I don't think that was asking too much. She said ok but I still have not received 1 dime. Oh and she said that I'm welcome to stay at the house for as long as I need to. Thanks a lot for that sweetie!!!!! She knows that I can't afford to pay every bill here plus pay for an apartment somewhere else. That's why I need her to cover half the bills so I can save a little more and move on. In some weird twisted sort of way, she may be trying to keep me here long enough until either she finds another guy to move in with or until I miss her so much that I'm literally back in the bedroom on my knees begging her to give the marriage another shot. If she was sincere about moving on, she would had given me her share of what I asked.

Sorry to be all over the place but my life is in pieces. I don't know how to shake this but it's just occupying my mind every second of the day. It's driving me crazy and I really don't know what to do. As much as I hate to say it, I still love her. I miss being close to her and I miss what I thought we had. However, I will not submit to her and I will not bring myself down and take the blame for her affair. As tough as it is, I will only work on the marriage if she is willing to do most of the heavy lifting. If we didn't have kids, it would be much easier but I keep thinking about how much this will hurt them especially my oldest. I trust that she can be a good mom but I do not think she can raise them to be men. Hell, both of them still sleep in the bedroom right now. So I'm still sleeping in the other room and I will try my best not to say a word to her. I hope things get easier over time because it really sucks right now. I feel like I wasted 10 years of my life and I don't even know how to start over. I do really appreciate all the advice here and although I never thought I would end up someplace like this, it's good to know that a support system does exist.


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## NoChoice

lawdawg,
You are now in a land of unicorns and rainbows with fairies spreading pixie dust, where she gets get exactly what she wants. No one can bring her from this magical land except for one thing. The big cold hand of reality slapping her across the face. She has to see reality in order to be able to come back to it.


----------



## dkphap13

lawdawg said:


> I really don't know where to start but I'll say that I found out that my wife cheated on me back in September. It was with an old friend of hers and I found out through her text messages and phone logs. She admitted to an emotional affair with kissing and touching but she would not admit to having sex with him. She even denied the affair for the first week. The only reason why she told the truth was because I talked to the other man and he told me that they had an relationship and that he was sorry. He said it was only emotional and they did not have sex. I told her mother and her sister and they pressured her to tell me the truth. Up until then, she swore that they were just friends and she said that I was just making up everything. I was devastated and I wanted to leave her. The only reason why I decided to stay was for my kids sake and she begged me to give the marriage another shot and said that she was sorry. After about a week of fighting, I tried to get things to go back to normal. I tried to hug and kiss her and I told her that we will find a way to fix things.
> 
> I won't say that I am perfect because I am not. I served 9 years in the military and got injured. I'm a 70% disabled veteran and I receive services from the VA. I've been depressed over the years and went through bouts of suicide and loneliness. I have a few acquaintances and no close friends. I have been seeing a therapist at the VA for the past few years and I have taken medication to help. I've been told by my therapist that I'm too nice. She says that I am the type of person that will do anything to make everyone else happy even if it means that I'm not happy. She says that I agree with other people's opinions so I can be accepted. It kind of hurt to hear that and I didn't even want to believe it. It's funny because she told me that a few years back and now I'm starting to see that it was true.
> 
> I'm only telling this part about myself because it relates to the issues with my wife. We rarely had sex the past few years. When we first got together. Sex was great. Multiple times per day and during the week. A few years back, she said she didn't want to do oral anymore. This made me upset but I (like a dummy) just gave in. Then after that, she said that sex is painful and that I was hurting her during sex. I felt really bad about that and that's when the erectile dysfunction started. Since 2010, I've had a really tough time getting it up for her. I've tried cialis and it works sometimes but 90% of the time, I just can't get it up for her. She always blamed me and said that it was my problem. She's even asked me a few times if I was gay. I've gotten my testosterone checked and it was fine. It works in the morning when I wake up and I am aroused around other women. Our sex life for the past few years has consisted of me giving her oral and me getting a hand job in return.
> 
> I felt really bad thinking I had a bad problem at such a young age but now after all these years, I'm starting to see that she had just as much to do with this as me (if not more). For one, she always like sleeping with the kids in the room. Even now, our oldest sleeps in a bed on the side of the room and the 3 year old sleeps in the bed with her. I have told her countless times that the kids need to sleep in their own room (we have a 3 bedroom home) and that we can't have sex with them in there. Also, she never really touches me sexually or makes me feel wanted. I don't get massages or bjs or anything else that I hear other men get. Our kisses are pretty much pecks and we've been living like roommates. I've tried giving her compliments and touching her sexually but all she says is thanks. I see now that she has created a environment where it's impossible for us to have sex because she doesn't want to. Even the therapist has told her that the kids should sleep in the other room but she doesn't listen. I know that if she was dating another new man, nobody would have to tell her to put the kids in another room when he came because she would do it automatically.
> 
> There have been other hints over the years too. Before I found out about her affair, I noticed she deleted me from her social media pages. If you look at her pictures and status, you would never know she was married to me. For a while, we used to fight because she never wore her ring. She would call me jealous and me being a nice guy, would always give in.
> 
> So back to what is going on now, she doesn't feel that her affair was her fault. She says that I drove her to cheat. On top of that, she doesn't even think it was an affair at all since they didn't have sex. I don't even believe that because if we weren't having sex, how could she not sleep with him since she liked him so much? We had a big fight about a week ago and I told her that I was sorry that I even found out about the affair. I told her is there anyway we can start over and work on our marriage. She said that she thinks that it's better that we separate. I told her that if we separate, I am gone for good and I am not coming back. She said "oh you'll be back". What does that even mean??? After that, I told her that I wanted a divorce and I immediately went online and printed out the packet. I filled out what I needed to and I wrote down all the bills and told her that she needs to pay half while I'm living there. She looked sad but just said ok. I was all set to start the process last Monday but I spoke to my therapist before hand. She told me it might be better to just separate and cool off for a while because I could always start the process later. Since then, I've moved all my things to the guest room. When she tries to talk to me, I barely say a word to her. I pretty much just interact with the kids and I've only spoken to her when it's concerning the kids.
> 
> I'm tired of being run over and lied too. I know that I've always been a nice person and that's something that I used to be proud of. I see now that people (even my own wife) take advantage of that in life. Right now, she has so much confidence that it just makes me furious. She's lost weight and bought new clothes and underwear. It just makes me upset. Ideally, I would want to work things out but I'm just tired of her trying to run over me. Is it worth trying to patch things up with her? Would sleeping in the other room lead to more problems down the line? She said before that I'm jealous and she doesn't like that I check her phone. Now, I try not to even look in her direction. It just bothers me all the time because I feel like this last 10 years was taken from me and it's all I can think about. If things stay sour, I will move out sometime next year and start my new life. Until then, I need something to keep me holding on and getting over her. As much as I love her, I know I can do better one day. This has been consuming my mind 24 hours a day and when I'm not working out or sleeping, it's all that's on my mind. Is this worth patching up or am I doing right by sleeping alone and ignoring her?


Well take it from some ones that has done opposite to most off what you have done. You are doing the right thing. She has forgotten that you are a man that you are her husband. Women cheat on men that they don't respect The once that treat them good. When I found out about my WS EA and basically gave her a free ride she just ruined her EA in to a PA. 

So you are doing the right thing. if you think your thinking about the affair 24/7 is a bad thing no it's not. If you do what I did you will forget about the affair and think off you letting your self down as a man and let her make fool out off you. And you will think off that for the rest off your life


----------



## Suspecting2014

Divorce, run and don't ever look back at her.

Focus on your kids and your self.

Serve her si she can see that her acctions have consecuences


----------



## badmemory

lawdawg,

Your marriage is in shambles and as you describe it, your wife has caused it. Don't believe for a minute that her A was only an EA. You know it wasn't. 

She is the only one that can turn this marriage around. But I can tell you, it's extremely unlikely that's going to happen. She's lost respect for you and she shows no remorse. But at this point, the mistakes you made in handling her A and what she thinks of you don't really matter.

The counselor's advice to separate is BS. All that will do is give her opportunity to cheat, while believing she's always got you as a plan B backup. You need to get out of this hell hole and start a new life as soon as you can.

Read the 180 again. Don't do part of it, do all of it. Stop engaging her. Don't lash out at her. Talk to her only as necessary. Think Mr. Spock. Focus on your children. You need to detach from her in the worst way. 

Work on you exit plan with an attorney. Improve yourself in the mean time. Don't leave your house until you've got a divorce agreement in place. Encourage her to leave the house until the D is final if she will.

Find your anger and use is to fuel your resolve.


----------



## Suspecting2014

badmemory said:


> lawdawg,
> 
> Your marriage is in shambles and as you describe it, your wife has caused it. Don't believe for a minute that her A was only an EA. You know it wasn't.
> 
> She is the only one that can turn this marriage around. But I can tell you, it's extremely unlikely that's going to happen. She's lost respect for you and she shows no remorse. But at this point, the mistakes you made in handling her A and what she thinks of you don't really matter.
> 
> The counselor's advice to separate is BS. All that will do is give her opportunity to cheat, while believing she's always got you as a plan B backup. You need to get out of this hell hole and start a new life as soon as you can.
> 
> Read the 180 again. Don't do part of it, do all of it. Stop engaging her. Don't lash out at her. Talk to her only as necessary. Think Mr. Spock. Focus on your children. You need to detach from her in the worst way.
> 
> Work on you exit plan with an attorney. Improve yourself in the mean time. Don't leave your house until you've got a divorce agreement in place. Encourage her to leave the house until the D is final if she will.
> 
> Find you anger and use is to fuel your resolve.


Coudent agree more!


----------



## nuclearnightmare

the guy said:


> I think it's time to put your money were your mouth is and start looking for that women.
> 
> Granted if you do find that women your old lady will turn it all around on you.....but at the end of ther day you sure will have fun looking
> 
> Hell if you do get crap from your old lady for looking for a better women at least you told her first....your old lady on the other hand, didn't give you that kind of curtousy.
> 
> At the very least ...it's time to get your self out there and meet people...good people.


:iagree: :iagree:

Amen. The Guy didn't tell you when you should start this search though. start it this afternoon (its not that late in the day on the west coast). seriously, you have kept your vows to your wife, but she has now rendered those vows meaningless. you no longer owe her your fidelity. IMO you no longer owe her anything at all.

did you say your injury was from combat (??) your life has too much value to waste with a woman like this. good luck OP


----------



## z_man

lawdawg said:


> I do regret asking for a divorce now because now she is running with the idea. In my mind, we've been separated for a long time now. Now she even said at counseling that separation may not work since things won't change anyway.


What this tells me is that divorce was inevitable and a separation plan would only prolong your agony.


----------



## RWB

lawdawg said:


> So I asked her today at counseling why she cheated on me and you know what the answer was? *It was because he showed her attention.*
> 
> I feel like I have been wasting my energy on this woman and I felt so hurt by that. *Every time I tried to show her love and attention, I never got any back and it in turn made me feel insecure and I thought something was wrong with me.* I really just can't understand how things have come to this. She wants attention but all she does is come home and sit on her ass watching hulu and netflix.


LD,

Been there...

*On the surface, it's counter intuitive. *You shower her with attention and she sees none of it. You try harder, she resists more. What's going on here?

Eventually, my wife admitted that she mentally check out years before she actually cheated. Get the point... *The Wall was built up long before the affair. *Once she convinced herself that the marriage is "broken" it's damn near impossible to "un-convince". Your actions are dismissed as insincere or just going through the motions... further validating her feelings. 

Before DD, I did flowers, the mini-vacations, the romantic dinners... I think it just frustrated her more. This is what the "Experts" call *Affair Primed.*

LD, you are trying to Rationally Understand something that has zero Rationality.

I remember sitting in MC, and hearing her speak of the "The Attention". I looked at her and said... For 30 years... I raised a family with you, kept a roof over your head, took care of you when you were sick, kept a job and provided security for you and our children, basically given my whole life to you. 

What has the OM done, told you you were pretty, emailed you, bought a Hotel room so he could F-ck you.


----------



## Jambri

Wow! I would have been gone long time ago


----------



## Mr Blunt

> LD,
> 
> Been there...
> 
> On the surface, it's counter intuitive. You shower her with attention and she sees none of it. You try harder, she resists more. What's going on here?
> 
> Eventually, my wife admitted that she mentally check out years before she actually cheated. Get the point... The Wall was built up long before the affair. Once she convinced herself that the marriage is "broken" it's damn near impossible to "un-convince". Your actions are dismissed as insincere or just going through the motions... further validating her feelings.
> 
> Before DD, I did flowers, the mini-vacations, the romantic dinners... I think it just frustrated her more. This is what the "Experts" call Affair Primed.
> 
> LD, you are trying to Rationally Understand something that has zero Rationality.
> 
> I remember sitting in MC, and hearing her speak of the "The Attention". I looked at her and said... For 30 years... I raised a family with you, kept a roof over your head, took care of you when you were sick, kept a job and provided security for you and our children, basically given my whole life to you.
> 
> What has the OM done, told you you were pretty, emailed you, bought a Hotel room so he could F-ck you.



LD

RWD just gave you the plain clear truth. You now should understand and if you do not accept this truth then you are compromising because you are not strong enough to take the actions that will help you the most.


----------



## shellgames

Don't bother with mc right now. Later if she wants to and you accept and see her actions.


----------



## lawdawg

RWB said:


> LD,
> 
> Been there...
> 
> *On the surface, it's counter intuitive. *You shower her with attention and she sees none of it. You try harder, she resists more. What's going on here?
> 
> Eventually, my wife admitted that she mentally check out years before she actually cheated. Get the point... *The Wall was built up long before the affair. *Once she convinced herself that the marriage is "broken" it's damn near impossible to "un-convince". Your actions are dismissed as insincere or just going through the motions... further validating her feelings.
> 
> Before DD, I did flowers, the mini-vacations, the romantic dinners... I think it just frustrated her more. This is what the "Experts" call *Affair Primed.*
> 
> LD, you are trying to Rationally Understand something that has zero Rationality.
> 
> I remember sitting in MC, and hearing her speak of the "The Attention". I looked at her and said... For 30 years... I raised a family with you, kept a roof over your head, took care of you when you were sick, kept a job and provided security for you and our children, basically given my whole life to you.
> 
> What has the OM done, told you you were pretty, emailed you, bought a Hotel room so he could F-ck you.


It's funny that you posted this because I was actually thinking about this earlier. My days are busy taking care of the work and kids and I also take a few classes. I do work around the house (without her even telling me) and I do manage to send a few love you texts or call to see how she is doing. Still, she said he showed her attention. Of course he's showing her attention because he wants to get in her pants. I'm out doing all the work for the family while she talks to him all day everyday. I just can't compete with that. I see that now.

On that note, I will say that I've been feeling better that past couple days. I've been losing weight, bought a few shirts, and even took myself to the movies. I only speak to her even if I have to and even then, I prefer to text if I can. I just feel so much better not talking and not getting upset. There's one thing I'm wondering about in hind sight. Ever since I found out she cheated, it's been something I thought about every single day. The therapist said that it will take time to just stop thinking about it. Almost every time we fight, I bring it up and she gets upset. She said that I'm trying to brain wash her by keep bringing it up. She gets mad when I talk about it and says that I'm hurting her when I talk about it. Is it wrong for me to bring it up? I've tried to keep it to myself but it's something that I'm always thinking about and sometimes I even have more questions about what happened. I don't know if I just need closure about her cheating or if it's just going to take me some time to get over it.


----------



## NoChoice

lawdawg said:


> It's funny that you posted this because I was actually thinking about this earlier. My days are busy taking care of the work and kids and I also take a few classes. I do work around the house (without her even telling me) and I do manage to send a few love you texts or call to see how she is doing. Still, she said he showed her attention. Of course he's showing her attention because he wants to get in her pants. I'm out doing all the work for the family while she talks to him all day everyday. I just can't compete with that. I see that now.
> 
> On that note, I will say that I've been feeling better that past couple days. I've been losing weight, bought a few shirts, and even took myself to the movies. I only speak to her even if I have to and even then, I prefer to text if I can. I just feel so much better not talking and not getting upset. There's one thing I'm wondering about in hind sight. Ever since I found out she cheated, it's been something I thought about every single day. The therapist said that it will take time to just stop thinking about it. Almost every time we fight, I bring it up and she gets upset. She said that I'm trying to brain wash her by keep bringing it up. She gets mad when I talk about it and says that I'm hurting her when I talk about it. Is it wrong for me to bring it up? I've tried to keep it to myself but it's something that I'm always thinking about and sometimes I even have more questions about what happened. I don't know if I just need closure about her cheating or if it's just going to take me some time to get over it.


The answer is both. It will take a long time to get past the intense part and then a while longer for it to fade almost away. And everything you think of is your minds way to put some kind of sense to it and logically figure it out, but you can't. If she was concerned about you healing she would welcome the questions as a way to express her regret to you. Ask her, if it hurts her so bad to hear it, how does she think you feel living it. Good luck.


----------



## toonaive

Brainwashing? She gets mad because she doesn't want to think about what she did. She doesn't want to feel her guilt about her actions. She would rather sweep it under the rug, and just let you deal with it, and forget about it. She is in no way remorseful, and really doesn't have have any interest in how your doing.


----------



## lordmayhem

lawdawg said:


> So I asked her today at counseling why she cheated on me and you know what the answer was? It was because he showed her attention. I feel like I have been wasting my energy on this woman and I felt so hurt by that. Every time I tried to show her love and attention, I never got any back and it in turn made me feel insecure and I thought something was wrong with me. I really just can't understand how things have come to this. She wants attention but all she does is come home and sit on her ass watching hulu and netflix.


Its really very simple. Its because in her mind you are her husband and you're supposed to be showing her attention. Because of that she didn't appreciate your attention and/or ignored it and took it for granted.

What OM gave her is the *outside validation* that she craved. You could have given her the most attention in the world (and it sounds like you did) and it wouldn't have mattered and she still would have cheated because *she wants attention from other men*. Like so many others, you have been relegated to the provider/live-in babysitter role.

You can walk away from this with a clear conscience. She has absolutely no remorse for what she's done. None whatsoever. And if she isn't still having the affair with the OM, then OM#2 won't be far behind. It's time to end this now, and show her the consequences of her actions. *You CAN do better than her*. Seriously. There's millions of women out there who would kill to have a man take care of her the way that you did, and not take you for granted.


----------



## Graywolf2

RWB said:


> For 30 years... I raised a family with you, kept a roof over your head, took care of you when you were sick, kept a job and provided security for you and our children, basically given my whole life to you.
> 
> What has the OM done, told you you were pretty, emailed you, bought a Hotel room so he could F-ck you.


*RWB, what was her response? *

I’m an old guy that has a natural tendency to be a family man. As you grow older companionship, stability and shared memories of family become more and more important. 

Studies indicate that both men and women value the same benefits of marriage but put them in a different order from most important to least. Women tend to put what I’ve already listed at the top of their list while sex is at the top of the list for men.

I’ve been happily married for 35 years. We have great adult children and are looking forward to grandchildren. I realize that I would be “cutting off my nose to spite my face” but if I found out that my wife cheated during our marriage I would be very, very tempted to divorce her. 

At the end of the day I might not do it (you never know until you’re in the situation) but it would drive me bat $hit crazy.

My motivation would be that she doesn’t deserve to live out her golden years with me after being unfaithful. 

As stated by RWB, I’ve “basically given my whole life to her” (the things woman value most) and she gave her sex (what men value most) to another man for free.


----------



## Graywolf2

lordmayhem said:


> Its really very simple. Its because in her mind you are her husband and you're supposed to be showing her attention. Because of that she didn't appreciate your attention and/or ignored it and took it for granted.


:iagree:

I read that a WW once told her husband: “You said all those nice things because you love me.”


----------



## NoChoice

Graywolf2 said:


> I’m an old guy that has a natural tendency to be a family man. As you grow older companionship, stability and shared memories of family become more and more important.
> 
> Studies indicate that both men and women value the same benefits of marriage but put them in a different order from most important to least. Women tend to put what I’ve already listed and the top of their list while sex is at the top of the list for men.
> 
> I’ve been happily married for 35 years. We have great adult children and are looking forward to grandchildren. I realize that I would be “cutting off my nose to spite my face” but if I found out that my wife cheated during our marriage I would be very, very tempted to divorce her.
> 
> At the end of the day I might not do it (you never know until you’re in the situation) but it would drive me bat $hit crazy.
> My motivation would be that she doesn’t deserve to live out her golden years with me after being unfaithful.
> 
> As stated by RWB, I’ve “basically given my whole life to her” (the things woman value most) and she gave her sex (what men value most) to another man for free.


Gray,
You really must be standing in those shoes to know what you are going to do and I will tell you they are very painful. They are 3 sizes too small, full of thumbtacks and lined with razors and they are soaking wet with boiling hot salt water and alcohol. I was 30+ years into it and already had grown children and grandchildren and I decided to stay and accept it. I still question my decision but it is more rarely now than at first. Had I been younger, as the OP appears to be, I truly believe I would have D and moved on.


----------



## lawdawg

lordmayhem said:


> Its really very simple. Its because in her mind you are her husband and you're supposed to be showing her attention. Because of that she didn't appreciate your attention and/or ignored it and took it for granted.
> 
> What OM gave her is the *outside validation* that she craved. You could have given her the most attention in the world (and it sounds like you did) and it wouldn't have mattered and she still would have cheated because *she wants attention from other men*. Like so many others, you have been relegated to the provider/live-in babysitter role.
> 
> You can walk away from this with a clear conscience. She has absolutely no remorse for what she's done. None whatsoever. And if she isn't still having the affair with the OM, then OM#2 won't be far behind. It's time to end this now, and show her the consequences of her actions. *You CAN do better than her*. Seriously. There's millions of women out there who would kill to have a man take care of her the way that you did, and not take you for granted.


As painful as this is to read, I believe that this is the truth. I do still have a lot of regrets but at the end of the day, I realize that it was her decision alone to cheat. It just sucks knowing that there was nothing I could had done to prevent this from happening. I know that there may be someone out there that can appreciate someone like me but honestly, I'm just not confident enough yet to jump back on the dating scene. Either way, I think my conscious will be clear soon because I know that whatever happens next for her, she brought it on herself.


----------



## lawdawg

toonaive said:


> Brainwashing? She gets mad because she doesn't want to think about what she did. She doesn't want to feel her guilt about her actions. She would rather sweep it under the rug, and just let you deal with it, and forget about it. She is in no way remorseful, and really doesn't have have any interest in how your doing.


If this is truly how she thinks, then she is more selfish than I thought. When I bring it up, I tell her it's because I think about it all the time. All she says is sorry but I feel that she doesn't show true remorse. She claims that I'm trying to brainwash her and hurt her. She just doesn't understand how much this has hurt me. Thanks a lot for the feedback because it has really been helpful.


----------



## LongWalk

Lawdawg,

Does your name mean that you were once a policeman and you were in the reserves and then ended up serving overseas?

What sort of disability did you suffer?

You mention trying to lose weight. How much extra are you carrying compared with when you met your wife?

Are you working from home?

Your wife is not sexually attracted towards you. She is not in love. Divorce seems like a very real possibility. Right now she knows you don't really want to end it and are hoping for a miracle. Under no circumstances should you move out.

Do you live in your chlldhood hometown? What sort of relationship do you have to her family? She to yours?

1) Go back and sleep in you own bed
2) Do not beg or plead
3) Are you working out? Make sure you get in shape. No excuses.
4) How old are your kids? Spend time with them helping them with thie homework and sports.
5) Stand up straight, stop sulking.
6) Since you spoke of divorce you have to see it through. Furthermore, this is only way you're going to get her to contribute financiallly. Do you know how much she has in the bank? Half of it is yours.
7) Shed the 70% disabled self image


----------



## lawdawg

LongWalk said:


> Lawdawg,
> 
> Does your name mean that you were once a policeman and you were in the reserves and then ended up serving overseas?
> 
> What sort of disability did you suffer?
> 
> You mention trying to lose weight. How much extra are you carrying compared with when you met your wife?
> 
> Are you working from home?
> 
> Your wife is not sexually attracted towards you. She is not in love. Divorce seems like a very real possibility. Right now she knows you don't really want to end it and are hoping for a miracle. Under no circumstances should you move out.
> 
> Do you live in your chlldhood hometown? What sort of relationship do you have to her family? She to yours?
> 
> 1) Go back and sleep in you own bed
> 2) Do not beg or plead
> 3) Are you working out? Make sure you get in shape. No excuses.
> 4) How old are your kids? Spend time with them helping them with thie homework and sports.
> 5) Stand up straight, stop sulking.
> 6) Since you spoke of divorce you have to see it through. Furthermore, this is only way you're going to get her to contribute financiallly. Do you know how much she has in the bank? Half of it is yours.
> 7) Shed the 70% disabled self image


I did a total of 9 years active duty. I did 4 tours overseas and was injured during my last tour. I was 170 and in shape when we met and I maintained that weight during the service since it was a requirement. The injury slowed me down quite a bit and I ended up getting medically discharged back in 2009. During 2010-2012, I was a mess and suffered pretty bad with depression and suicidal thoughts mostly due to my injury. Luckily, the VA had my back and I got a lot of help. I have worked out since then but it's not as much as it was back when I was on active duty. Since I got out, my weight got up to 225 lbs as of a couple weeks ago. I'm already down to 211 since I've been eating a lot less and working out a lot more. Some days I don't even feel hungry and I think that's because I spend a lot of time thinking about what she did. 

As far as moving back into the bed, I really don't think that's a option at this point. I'm really not interested in sleeping in the same bed right now. I've moved all my clothes in the guest room and I've been there. It just feels so much better to be able to avoid her everyday and it gives me a chance to think. When we are in constant contact, she has an attitude and she likes to do things to get me fired up. When I'm alone and I feel these emotions, I go out to the garage and pound away on my punching bag.

I already filled out the paperwork for divorce but did not file yet. I guess she wants to separate but we haven't talked about it since last Monday. She still hasn't give me one dime to go on the bills this month so I don't know how she expects me to leave. If it wasn't for the kids, I would just stop paying for the house and let it go. They have all their things here and I don't want to see them suffer so I'm just holding it together for their sake. Sadly, I think you are right about her not being attracted to me and not being in love. As much as that hurts, I know I can get over that and move on to something better. I hate making excuses but I have gotten bigger since I got out and she has commented on my weight in the past. Still, that's no excuse for her to go out and cheat.


----------



## GusPolinski

lawdawg said:


> She still hasn't give me one dime to go on the bills this month so I don't know how she expects me to leave.


So don't leave. _She_ can GTFO.


----------



## Indy

lawdawg said:


> I really don't know where to start but I'll say that I found out that my wife cheated on me back in September. It was with an old friend of hers and I found out through her text messages and phone logs. She admitted to an emotional affair with kissing and touching but she would not admit to having sex with him. She even denied the affair for the first week. The only reason why she told the truth was because I talked to the other man and he told me that they had an relationship and that he was sorry. He said it was only emotional and they did not have sex. I told her mother and her sister and they pressured her to tell me the truth. Up until then, she swore that they were just friends and she said that I was just making up everything. I was devastated and I wanted to leave her. The only reason why I decided to stay was for my kids sake and she begged me to give the marriage another shot and said that she was sorry. After about a week of fighting, I tried to get things to go back to normal. I tried to hug and kiss her and I told her that we will find a way to fix things.
> 
> I won't say that I am perfect because I am not. I served 9 years in the military and got injured. I'm a 70% disabled veteran and I receive services from the VA. I've been depressed over the years and went through bouts of suicide and loneliness. I have a few acquaintances and no close friends. I have been seeing a therapist at the VA for the past few years and I have taken medication to help. I've been told by my therapist that I'm too nice. She says that I am the type of person that will do anything to make everyone else happy even if it means that I'm not happy. She says that I agree with other people's opinions so I can be accepted. It kind of hurt to hear that and I didn't even want to believe it. It's funny because she told me that a few years back and now I'm starting to see that it was true.
> 
> I'm only telling this part about myself because it relates to the issues with my wife. We rarely had sex the past few years. When we first got together. Sex was great. Multiple times per day and during the week. A few years back, she said she didn't want to do oral anymore. This made me upset but I (like a dummy) just gave in. Then after that, she said that sex is painful and that I was hurting her during sex. I felt really bad about that and that's when the erectile dysfunction started. Since 2010, I've had a really tough time getting it up for her. I've tried cialis and it works sometimes but 90% of the time, I just can't get it up for her. She always blamed me and said that it was my problem. She's even asked me a few times if I was gay. I've gotten my testosterone checked and it was fine. It works in the morning when I wake up and I am aroused around other women. Our sex life for the past few years has consisted of me giving her oral and me getting a hand job in return.
> 
> I felt really bad thinking I had a bad problem at such a young age but now after all these years, I'm starting to see that she had just as much to do with this as me (if not more). For one, she always like sleeping with the kids in the room. Even now, our oldest sleeps in a bed on the side of the room and the 3 year old sleeps in the bed with her. I have told her countless times that the kids need to sleep in their own room (we have a 3 bedroom home) and that we can't have sex with them in there. Also, she never really touches me sexually or makes me feel wanted. I don't get massages or bjs or anything else that I hear other men get. Our kisses are pretty much pecks and we've been living like roommates. I've tried giving her compliments and touching her sexually but all she says is thanks. I see now that she has created a environment where it's impossible for us to have sex because she doesn't want to. Even the therapist has told her that the kids should sleep in the other room but she doesn't listen. I know that if she was dating another new man, nobody would have to tell her to put the kids in another room when he came because she would do it automatically.
> 
> There have been other hints over the years too. Before I found out about her affair, I noticed she deleted me from her social media pages. If you look at her pictures and status, you would never know she was married to me. For a while, we used to fight because she never wore her ring. She would call me jealous and me being a nice guy, would always give in.
> 
> So back to what is going on now, she doesn't feel that her affair was her fault. She says that I drove her to cheat. On top of that, she doesn't even think it was an affair at all since they didn't have sex. I don't even believe that because if we weren't having sex, how could she not sleep with him since she liked him so much? We had a big fight about a week ago and I told her that I was sorry that I even found out about the affair. I told her is there anyway we can start over and work on our marriage. She said that she thinks that it's better that we separate. I told her that if we separate, I am gone for good and I am not coming back. She said "oh you'll be back". What does that even mean??? After that, I told her that I wanted a divorce and I immediately went online and printed out the packet. I filled out what I needed to and I wrote down all the bills and told her that she needs to pay half while I'm living there. She looked sad but just said ok. I was all set to start the process last Monday but I spoke to my therapist before hand. She told me it might be better to just separate and cool off for a while because I could always start the process later. Since then, I've moved all my things to the guest room. When she tries to talk to me, I barely say a word to her. I pretty much just interact with the kids and I've only spoken to her when it's concerning the kids.
> 
> I'm tired of being run over and lied too. I know that I've always been a nice person and that's something that I used to be proud of. I see now that people (even my own wife) take advantage of that in life. Right now, she has so much confidence that it just makes me furious. She's lost weight and bought new clothes and underwear. It just makes me upset. Ideally, I would want to work things out but I'm just tired of her trying to run over me. Is it worth trying to patch things up with her? Would sleeping in the other room lead to more problems down the line? She said before that I'm jealous and she doesn't like that I check her phone. Now, I try not to even look in her direction. It just bothers me all the time because I feel like this last 10 years was taken from me and it's all I can think about. If things stay sour, I will move out sometime next year and start my new life. Until then, I need something to keep me holding on and getting over her. As much as I love her, I know I can do better one day. This has been consuming my mind 24 hours a day and when I'm not working out or sleeping, it's all that's on my mind. Is this worth patching up or am I doing right by sleeping alone and ignoring her?


It seems like the nice guys have the most trouble. It's also amazing how long these things can go on. 

It doesn't sound like she has any respect for you, I'm sorry to say this. She might think that you need her as you are the one trying to work things out. 

I know that you love her but this is at the price of your self-respect and dignity. You don't deserve this. Also, your ED may not be just physical. I suffered the same when my wife had an emotional affair. 

It sounds as though she wants to live the life of a single woman. 

It may be better if you tell her that she is free to have a relationship with this man and then you continue your treatment and try to have a happy life.

I'm not saying that she won't change but as long as you are voluntarily taking the passive role, she has no motivation to change as the power is in her hands. Take that power back. Let her go if you need to-but have your support network in place. Keep going to the VA and work on social anxiety (I have it, too) and do what you can to re-establish your confidence.


----------



## Wazza

Do you hope to save your marriage, or have you accepted that she appears to be moving on?

Have you taken legal advice on your rights, and started moving towards a new normal where you are no longer married, or are you hoping that saying "you have to pay some bills" will snap her out of it and she will come back to you?

It's not going to snap her out of it. She is not going to pay the bills unless you take steps to force the issue. And you need legal advice on whether you can, and then you need to consider the fate of your children, who are, sadly, collateral damage in all of this.

My marriage was reconciled after my wife's affair, so I can talk about that, but at the moment...I am sorry, but yours is heading the other way.


----------



## Suspecting2014

IMO your problem is that you bark alot but don't bite, she knows it.
Now some facts:

Was a PA, you know it. You asked your wife, she yelled, you got mad then you said you will do something and walk away. After that you thought it over and did nothing.

Your wife knows that you are not going to do nothing. She fights you to avoid you and she keeps control over the whole situation. This is why when you said you will file D, she said lets do it, knowing that you wont and she neither.

I recommend 2 things:

1 file D and got her saved. This way you will achieve 2 things. That you can stop the D when ever you want, and show her that from now on you are doing what you are saying.

2 180 hard on her. This way you take control over the situation as she van not get you anger and doing what she saya.

IMO if D of R, this is the only path now.


----------



## Suspecting2014

On your situation you must do 180 at 100% otherwise dont even bother as talking is her way to control you.


----------



## LongWalk

Being so grossly overweight could effect your testosterone. Here is a scientific study on the subject. 

Lift weights, run, cut junk food out of your diet.

What sports do your kids play?

Getting your self confidence back will be very important to fixing your marriage or successfully divorcing your wife.

Reach inside and get a grip over your panic and self doubt. Start showing your wife that you have found your testicles.

Do not get mad at her anymore. Open display of anger make you look weak.


----------



## Suspecting2014

LongWalk said:


> Being so grossly overweight could effect your testosterone. Here is a scientific study on the subject.
> 
> Lift weights, run, cut junk food out of your diet.
> 
> What sports do your kids play?
> 
> Getting your self confidence back will be very important to fixing your marriage or successfully divorcing your wife.
> 
> Reach inside and get a grip over your panic and self doubt. Start showing your wife that you have found your testicles.
> 
> *Do not get mad at her anymore. Open display of anger make you look weak*.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## lawdawg

GusPolinski said:


> So don't leave. _She_ can GTFO.


For the 2nd time this month, she has asked me what she has to pay and how much. She says she needs to know so she can start managing her money. I texted her the amounts again this morning. After reading your post (and a few others that mentioned it), I think that you're absolutely right. Since we've been living in our home, she has not paid 1 house note. Yes you read that right. Not even one! I have always took care of her car insurance every month. I'm always the one that goes to the store and buy food. Almost every single item in our house has been paid for by me. Yes, she has bought the kids clothes and she has been paying the electric bill for the past 2 years. All of her money goes towards clothes and shoes. It just hit me this morning how disconnected she is since she doesn't even know how much our house note is and we bought the house back in 07!

I know all this materialistic stuff doesn't matter since she would get half in a divorce. But you know what? I feel that I shouldn't continue to lie down anymore for a woman that doesn't respect me. I text her this morning and told her that since I wasn't the one that cheated, I'm not going anywhere. I told her she is welcome to go whenever she wants. All she did was text me back and say "I knew you weren't going to leave". She knows that I still want to work things out so maybe that's where she's getting that from. Either way, it's not fair for me to sit around stressed out about how I'm going to live once I go especially when I didn't do anything wrong. I haven't been the perfect husband but she has disrespected me for years and I'm tired of it. She hasn't text me back yet so we'll see if she says anything when I get back home. I'm not even going to do the heavy lifting for the divorce anymore. If she hates me so much and wants to separate, she can leave tomorrow and I would be happy. If she wants to divorce so bad, she can have her lawyer contact me. She said before that she wanted to stay in the house since the kids like it but I'm sure the kids weren't a factor when she was out screwing around. In my mind, it works out better for her if she goes because she couldn't afford to stay here anyway because she doesn't make enough to cover the house and all the bills.

I will be the first to admit that I do want to work things out with her. But, I will not lie down for her anymore. If it doesn't work out, I can move on to something better. I thought I was doing her a favor pampering her for her whole life because that's how I was raised. Now it's time for her to face the music. I really appreciate all the help


----------



## lawdawg

LongWalk said:


> Being so grossly overweight could effect your testosterone. Here is a scientific study on the subject.
> 
> Lift weights, run, cut junk food out of your diet.
> 
> What sports do your kids play?
> 
> Getting your self confidence back will be very important to fixing your marriage or successfully divorcing your wife.
> 
> Reach inside and get a grip over your panic and self doubt. Start showing your wife that you have found your testicles.
> 
> Do not get mad at her anymore. Open display of anger make you look weak.


I've been doing good for almost a week now and part of the reason is because we just don't talk at all. We literally pass by each other in the house and don't say anything unless it's something urgent. Even now, it's hard to control my temper. If you met her, you would think that she was the sweetest woman in the world. When she talks to me, even if it's the smallest thing, she is nasty and cold. I don't know if she hates me that much or if she is just trying to get a reaction out of me. So my question is, HOW THE HELL DO YOU NOT GET MAD AT SOMEONE THAT TREATS YOU LIKE ****??? I'm still working on finding the answer to that one but man she does have a way of setting me off. Of course, all of this started a few weeks back when we were fighting all of the time and eventually started talking about divorce. Someone here said that maybe she does that so if she gets a rise out of me, she can justify her affair in her mind. I'm starting to believe that now.


----------



## GusPolinski

^This^ is good, but you need to drive the point home. An acceptable reply to her comment about you not leaving would be...

"You clearly didn't understand. I'm not leaving my HOME. I didn't say anything about not leaving my marriage."


----------



## GusPolinski

And look, man... for as long as your wife _knows_ that you want to work things out, you really don't have a chance of actually working things out. She needs to feel the very real threat of an impending divorce before she'll stop the bullsh*t, show any kind of remorse, and start to respect you. Help her do that by pulling a 180 and filing for divorce.

Having said that, filing for divorce doesn't necessarily mean that you actually have to divorce. If, at some point after you've filed, she turns things around and starts DOING (not just _saying_) all the right things, demonstrates both (a) remorse for her actions, AND (b) a 111.11% commitment (settle for nothing less!!!) to rebuilding your marriage, then you can put the brakes on the divorce. Having read through your thread, though... I can't help get the feeling that that won't be the case. Sorry.

In either case, you need to work toward a very calm acceptance of the fact that your marriage is over, because being in that headspace is what is going to enable you to make _rational_ decisions regarding divorce or reconciliation.


----------



## GusPolinski

lawdawg said:


> I've been doing good for almost a week now and part of the reason is because we just don't talk at all. We literally pass by each other in the house and don't say anything unless it's something urgent. Even now, it's hard to control my temper. If you met her, you would think that she was the sweetest woman in the world. When she talks to me, even if it's the smallest thing, she is nasty and cold. I don't know if she hates me that much or if she is just trying to get a reaction out of me. So my question is, HOW THE HELL DO YOU NOT GET MAD AT SOMEONE THAT TREATS YOU LIKE ****??? I'm still working on finding the answer to that one but man she does have a way of setting me off. Of course, all of this started a few weeks back when we were fighting all of the time and eventually started talking about divorce. Someone here said that maybe she does that so if she gets a rise out of me, she can justify her affair in her mind. I'm starting to believe that now.


Have you read up on the 180 at all?


----------



## RV9

Read 180. You need to follow it asap.


----------



## Suspecting2014

lawdawg said:


> LongWalk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Being so grossly overweight could effect your testosterone. Here is a scientific study on the subject.
> 
> Lift weights, run, cut junk food out of your diet.
> 
> What sports do your kids play?
> 
> Getting your self confidence back will be very important to fixing your marriage or successfully divorcing your wife.
> 
> Reach inside and get a grip over your panic and self doubt. Start showing your wife that you have found your testicles.
> 
> Do not get mad at her anymore. Open display of anger make you look weak.
> 
> 
> 
> I've been doing good for almost a week now and part of the reason is because we just don't talk at all. We literally pass by each other in the house and don't say anything unless it's something urgent. Even now, it's hard to control my temper. If you met her, you would think that she was the sweetest woman in the world. When she talks to me, even if it's the smallest thing, she is nasty and cold. I don't know if she hates me that much or if she is just trying to get a reaction out of me. So my question is, HOW THE HELL DO YOU NOT GET MAD AT SOMEONE THAT TREATS YOU LIKE ****??? I'm still working on finding the answer to that one but man she does have a way of setting me off. Of course, all of this started a few weeks back when we were fighting all of the time and eventually started talking about divorce. Someone here said that maybe she does that so if she gets a rise out of me, she can justify her affair in her mind. I'm starting to believe that now.
Click to expand...

Don't talk to her at all, just about kids and bill and by text better.

Avoid her and so 180 100â


----------



## Suspecting2014

lawdawg said:


> GusPolinski said:
> 
> 
> 
> So don't leave. _She_ can GTFO.
> 
> 
> 
> For the 2nd time this month, she has asked me what she has to pay and how much. She says she needs to know so she can start managing her money. I texted her the amounts again this morning. After reading your post (and a few others that mentioned it), I think that you're absolutely right. Since we've been living in our home, she has not paid 1 house note. Yes you read that right. Not even one! I have always took care of her car insurance every month. I'm always the one that goes to the store and buy food. Almost every single item in our house has been paid for by me. Yes, she has bought the kids clothes and she has been paying the electric bill for the past 2 years. All of her money goes towards clothes and shoes. It just hit me this morning how disconnected she is since she doesn't even know how much our house note is and we bought the house back in 07!
> 
> I know all this materialistic stuff doesn't matter since she would get half in a divorce. But you know what? I feel that I shouldn't continue to lie down anymore for a woman that doesn't respect me. I text her this morning and told her that since I wasn't the one that cheated, I'm not going anywhere. I told her she is welcome to go whenever she wants. All she did was text me back and say "I knew you weren't going to leave". She knows that I still want to work things out so maybe that's where she's getting that from. Either way, it's not fair for me to sit around stressed out about how I'm going to live once I go especially when I didn't do anything wrong. I haven't been the perfect husband but she has disrespected me for years and I'm tired of it. She hasn't text me back yet so we'll see if she says anything when I get back home. I'm not even going to do the heavy lifting for the divorce anymore. If she hates me so much and wants to separate, she can leave tomorrow and I would be happy. If she wants to divorce so bad, she can have her lawyer contact me. She said before that she wanted to stay in the house since the kids like it but I'm sure the kids weren't a factor when she was out screwing around. In my mind, it works out better for her if she goes because she couldn't afford to stay here anyway because she doesn't make enough to cover the house and all the bills.
> 
> I will be the first to admit that I do want to work things out with her. But, I will not lie down for her anymore. If it doesn't work out, I can move on to something better. I thought I was doing her a favor pampering her for her whole life because that's how I was raised. Now it's time for her to face the music. I really appreciate all the help
Click to expand...


You know that by doing nothing on your end she will cheat again and feel entytled , rigth?

Detach as most and as fast as you can


----------



## bigfoot

Lawdawg, 

Please stop the passive aggressive behavior. It is time to take charge of your life. You said that if she wanted the divorce, her lawyer could contact you. Don't take this the wrong way, but that is Bullsh[t. You are giving control to her because you don't want to commit to a move. You said it yourself, you want to work it out. By claiming to make her make the moves, you are hoping that she will somehow come to her senses and realize that you are worth fighting for. It is just a form of the pick me dance. 

I read all about the 180 and it has its purposes. I also know about the door. You show it to them. You tell her to get out. You tell her that you are going to file and you do it. You legally show her the door. Stop the pick me dance. Stop the, "I'll show her how miserable life can be by staying and letting her do whatever she wants". Its like beating someone's fist up with your face. Stop it.

Take charge. Ignore her and divorce her. Ignore her and have your lawyer ask for the house and the kids and whatever else you want. I read this somewhere recently by a betrayed husband, he wrote his wife and said, in sum and substance, "I could not force you to marry me, I could not follow you around to convince you marry me, so I will not do the same thing to make you stay with me." 

If you really want her, and I honestly do not know why you would risk your future with her at all, the best bet you have is to make her leave. Either she will realize that she should leave, you will come to your senses and realize that she should remain gone, or you will work it out. The only downside is that she may come back and you might let her.


----------



## LongWalk

You are getting good advice.


----------



## LostAndContent

lawdawg said:


> I'm not even going to do the heavy lifting for the divorce anymore. If she hates me so much and wants to separate, she can leave tomorrow and I would be happy. If she wants to divorce so bad, she can have her lawyer contact me. She said before that she wanted to stay in the house since the kids like it but I'm sure the kids weren't a factor when she was out screwing around. In my mind, it works out better for her if she goes because she couldn't afford to stay here anyway because she doesn't make enough to cover the house and all the bills.


We see this argument a lot, and we all realize it's bull by now. You waiting on her to proceed with the divorce isn't you being strong and forcing her to do the heavy lifting. It's just you being a wimp and trying to avoid being left by her. You're making excuses to not turn this into a real divorce. And you're once again giving her all the power.

When people on TAM say you should let her do the heavy lifting, we mean the heavy lifting that would be needed to save the marriage, not the heavy lifting needed to finish the divorce. You not pursuing the divorce is just telling her that she can do whatever and whoever she wants and you will wait around to take her back once all the other guys pump and dump her. I'm all for you staying in the house, but don't hide behind "letting her do the heavy lifting in the divorce." 

You're still hoping to work this out, and that's alright, but the only way you even have a chance to save your marriage is to push the divorce so that she know's this isn't acceptable behavior and can respect you as a man. Lawyer up and move on dude. Stop trying to bury your head in the sand, hoping things will get better.


----------



## lawdawg

GusPolinski said:


> Have you read up on the 180 at all?


Yes I have been reading about the 180 for a while now and I have been following it for the most part. The part I was referring to was this:

20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control. YOURSELF!

That's where I have been having trouble. I don't see how I could not get angry with someone that is always being nasty and disrespectful. Either way, I feel much better after letting her know that she needs to leave. As far as the communication, it is kept to a minimum and that's getting easier also.


----------



## Lostinthought61

when she acts out like that...you do not have to take it, you can look her in the eye and with out a word you can leave for a while...grab a coffee anything the point being that ever time she does that you leave and she will eventually get the message.


----------



## lawdawg

bigfoot said:


> Lawdawg,
> 
> Please stop the passive aggressive behavior. It is time to take charge of your life. You said that if she wanted the divorce, her lawyer could contact you. Don't take this the wrong way, but that is Bullsh[t. You are giving control to her because you don't want to commit to a move. You said it yourself, you want to work it out. By claiming to make her make the moves, you are hoping that she will somehow come to her senses and realize that you are worth fighting for. It is just a form of the pick me dance.
> 
> I read all about the 180 and it has its purposes. I also know about the door. You show it to them. You tell her to get out. You tell her that you are going to file and you do it. You legally show her the door. Stop the pick me dance. Stop the, "I'll show her how miserable life can be by staying and letting her do whatever she wants". Its like beating someone's fist up with your face. Stop it.
> 
> Take charge. Ignore her and divorce her. Ignore her and have your lawyer ask for the house and the kids and whatever else you want. I read this somewhere recently by a betrayed husband, he wrote his wife and said, in sum and substance, "I could not force you to marry me, I could not follow you around to convince you marry me, so I will not do the same thing to make you stay with me."
> 
> If you really want her, and I honestly do not know why you would risk your future with her at all, the best bet you have is to make her leave. Either she will realize that she should leave, you will come to your senses and realize that she should remain gone, or you will work it out. The only downside is that she may come back and you might let her.


So, the last time we had a meaningful conversation (at the counselor), the plan was to separate. She seemed upset by the idea and to me, it seemed like she wanted to go forward with divorce. When the counselor asked her what she wanted, she said either separation or divorce. That right there should tell me that she doesn't really want to work it out right? 

The plan was for me to save up for a few months and move out and "separate" until we decide whether or not we are going to divorce. I just flipped it around to day and told her that she needs to move out since I'm not the one that cheated and she contributes little to nothing to the house. You are right though, deep down, I do have a little hope that she will see what she's had all this time and it would be enough to wake her up and make her do the heavy lifting to save the marriage. Are you saying that me asking her to leave would not be motivation enough for her to try to fix things? Do you think I should just skip the separation altogether and go straight to filing the papers for divorce? Is divorce going to be the only thing that makes her wake up?

Also, if I did get a lawyer and asked for the house, how does the judge determine who actually gets it? When we fought in the past, she used to tease that she has plenty of places to go and that she chooses to stay because the kids like it. Now I'm calling her out on it and I want her to call her those friends to see if they have room for her to move in. Yes I do still love her. However, I will say that the more I read and realize what my life has become, the decision of divorce is much easier. I know that lots of women would love to take her place and if things don't work out with her, I know I can move on to something better.


----------



## lawdawg

LongWalk said:


> Being so grossly overweight could effect your testosterone. Here is a scientific study on the subject.
> 
> Lift weights, run, cut junk food out of your diet.
> 
> What sports do your kids play?
> 
> Getting your self confidence back will be very important to fixing your marriage or successfully divorcing your wife.
> 
> Reach inside and get a grip over your panic and self doubt. Start showing your wife that you have found your testicles.
> 
> Do not get mad at her anymore. Open display of anger make you look weak.


I think my weight gain does play a role in the ED but I don't think it's a huge factor. I've had testotosterone tests in the past and I've been told that their fine. It works in the morning when I wake up and I can get a erection at any other time other than when we are together. When I think of being sexual with her, the first thing that pops in my mind is resentment and anger and I think that plays a major role. I think that we share this problem and it's not just my fault.


----------



## LostAndContent

I think divorce might be the only thing that wakes her up, but you need to come to terms with the fact that she probably will never wake up no matter what you do. Or if she does wake up it might be months or years after the divorce when she realizes life without you sucks. But while she probably won't wake up even if you divorce her, she DEFINITELY won't wake up if you don't. If you don't divorce her, she'll continue to see you as a doormat that will stick around waiting for her to change her mind forever. Her respect for you will continue to shrink because you refusing to leave her tells her you think you deserve to be treated like this. In her mind you're saying "Alright, she cheated on me, but she's way out of my league so I'll just put up with it so I can continue dating this perfect goddess even though I'm pondscum. It's ok that she walks all over me, because she's better than me, but if I stick around she might realize how nice I'm being and take me back."

That is not a sexy way to act as a man. You're lowering your own value by continually raising the bar on how much crap you're willing to take from her before you divorce her. 

Stay in the house, don't stay in the house. Do whatever feels right there. But for gods sake push the divorce through. That and getting her to finally start paying half the bills is the only thing that matters here.


----------



## NoChoice

Law,
What, exactly are you trying to accomplish when you lose your temper while talking to her? What are you trying to relate to her? Are you trying to make her feel your anguish, your frustration? Are you trying to make her see how badly this hurts you?

Has it worked to date? The reason it is not working is because your anger is her cue that she has affected you psychologically in such a way that you lose control and when you lose control guess where the control goes......straight to her. You have to realize this in order to prevent it.

If you want to keep the control and do to her all of the things in the first paragraph there is but one way. Number 20 on the 180 list. Your anger is her fuel and every time you express it you bolster her position of control. The only way to take it from her is to react to her in a calm, rational manner no matter how snide and uncaring her remarks are.

As long as you allow her the control she will steer your ship onto the rocks and eventually destroy it. If you want any chance of saving this you must take away her control. Do the 180, file for D asap and show her that she no longer controls the rudder. IT IS THE ONLY WAY.

Think of it this way. She is a raging fire of confusion and turmoil and you are trying to bring her under control by pouring gas on her. Calm, rational responses are water to her fire. You will never "nice" her out of this, it simply will not work.


----------



## ButtPunch

I agree with the others. She has not shown one shred of remorse or acted like reconciliation is even an option. You need to take charge and push this divorce thru. If there is any chance of saving this thing, she has to think it's her idea. Let her go. I'm sorry.


----------



## GusPolinski

lawdawg said:


> So, the last time we had a meaningful conversation (at the counselor), the plan was to separate. She seemed upset by the idea and to me, it seemed like she wanted to go forward with divorce. When the counselor asked her what she wanted, she said either separation or divorce. That right there should tell me that she doesn't really want to work it out right?


Hmm... maybe. Who cares? Give it to her (a divorce, that is) either way.



lawdawg said:


> The plan was for me to save up for a few months and move out and "separate" until we decide whether or not we are going to divorce. I just flipped it around to day and told her that she needs to move out since I'm not the one that cheated and she contributes little to nothing to the house.


Excellent!



lawdawg said:


> You are right though, deep down, I do have a little hope that she will see what she's had all this time and it would be enough to wake her up and make her do the heavy lifting to save the marriage. Are you saying that me asking her to leave would not be motivation enough for her to try to fix things? Do you think I should just skip the separation altogether and go straight to filing the papers for divorce?


Yes.



lawdawg said:


> Is divorce going to be the only thing that makes her wake up?


Yep. She'd just use a separation to continue f*cking around on you, all the while feeding you just enough bullsh*t to keep you on the line.



lawdawg said:


> Also, if I did get a lawyer and asked for the house, how does the judge determine who actually gets it? When we fought in the past, she used to tease that she has plenty of places to go and that she chooses to stay because the kids like it. Now I'm calling her out on it and I want her to call her those friends to see if they have room for her to move in. Yes I do still love her. However, I will say that the more I read and realize what my life has become, the decision of divorce is much easier. I know that lots of women would love to take her place and if things don't work out with her, I know I can move on to something better.


Unless you owned the house prior to marrying her, it's marital property legally speaking, which (unfortunately) means that -- in the eyes of the law -- it's as much hers as it is yours.

You could always sell it, but (again, assuming that you didn't own it prior to the marriage) you'll have to split the equity w/ her.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Your trying to validate your emotions through her, and you want her to acknowledge them. The best way to cure this is to realize, that only you can really own your own emotions, and you can't make anyone feel anything. 

Start by acknowledging your own sh1t, and don't express them in front of her. She does not care to understand you, and she has placed a wall in front of her. You keep banging your head against the wall and only hurting yourself. The best solution to this is to not engage. 

Simply disengage, live your own life, and your pretty much single. You just don't accept it yet. A piece of paper can't keep a relationship together. It is already broken and the faster you find acceptence , the faster you can move on.


----------



## Wazza

lawdawg said:


> Also, if I did get a lawyer and asked for the house, how does the judge determine who actually gets it?


You need legal advice that is specific to your circumstances. You will get lots of anecdotal information here and that is useful (for example in warning you about dirty tricks that get pulled) but the starting point is to know your rights.

Your wife is saying she wants to divorce you and that is going to have lots of major financial ramifications for you. You need to know what they are. How much is the house worth? Your other assets? Who will be liable for child and spousal support? How much? How long for? I get that money is tight. But it will be tighter if you don't take steps to protect yourself. Pay the lawyer's bill and let Netflix get cut off. 

If she was going to play by your rules, she would be paying a share of household bills as requested.

I understand how hard this is, I understand all you want is to win her back. I've been there. But letting her rape you financially is not going to win her back. Don't be angry at her. Just be very assertive of your rights.


----------



## Wazza

Mr.Fisty said:


> Your trying to validate your emotions through her, and you want her to acknowledge them. The best way to cure this is to realize, that only you can really own your own emotions, and you can't make anyone feel anything.
> 
> Start by acknowledging your own sh1t, and don't express them in front of her. She does not care to understand you, and she has placed a wall in front of her. You keep banging your head against the wall and only hurting yourself. The best solution to this is to not engage.
> 
> Simply disengage, live your own life, and your pretty much single. You just don't accept it yet. A piece of paper can't keep a relationship together. It is already broken and the faster you find acceptence , the faster you can move on.


This is exactly the right advice, whether you divorce or end up working things out. Either way, this is truth.


----------



## bigfoot

lawdawg,

I looked at your questions in response to my post and I want to answer you this way: Stop focusing on her, her reactions, her intent, and her wants. You need to focus on yourself. 

I don't buy the whole "fog" crap. It absolves cheaters of responsibility. There was no fog when they started down the path. There was no fog as they passed several clear boundaries. There is no fog once they get involved. The idea of fog gives the betrayed some imaginary enemy to fight. I see it all the time, "If I could just snap her out of it", "If I could wake them up"... The betrayed live in a fog. Their lives were turned upside down, instead of hearing that their loved one died suddenly, they learn that their loved one cheated. Now, unlike death, the betrayed want to negotiate and do all kind of things to "resurrect" their waywards. Stop. 

If you want separation, then fine. If you want it because you think its what she wants, then you will suffer. She will cheat and you will pine away. You cannot "wake her up" as she is already awake. 

Since you are so invested in the marriage and getting her back, you will only pursue courses of action that don't risk losing her and it. But you are the one in a confused state of mind. Since you are unwilling to lose your marriage, you will lose yourself and ultimately your marriage. If, on the other hand, you are willing to walk away from her and your marriage then you stand a chance. You stand a chance of living a happy and fulfilled life without this woman (good) or you stand a chance of forcing her to realize that sh[t is getting real and she might want to chose whom she wishes to grow old with cause you are moving on. If she chooses you (not so good imho), you get to decide if you want that or not. While I am all for walking away, some folks just have to hang on. Read a lot of stories on this site and others about those that get back. I tend to see more empty shell folks that could not detach. There are success stories, but they are in the minority.

Bottom line, you make the call based on what is best for LAWDAWG. She does not get to dictate the terms of your heartbreak or happiness anymore. If that does not answer your questions let me know and I will be more specific.


----------



## badmemory

lawdawg said:


> Are you saying that me asking her to leave would not be motivation enough for her to try to fix things?
> 
> *Yes.*
> 
> Do you think I should just skip the separation altogether and go straight to filing the papers for divorce?
> 
> *Yes.*
> 
> Is divorce going to be the only thing that makes her wake up?
> 
> *At this point, if anything wakes her up, that will be it. Yes.*


----------



## lawdawg

bigfoot said:


> lawdawg,
> 
> I looked at your questions in response to my post and I want to answer you this way: Stop focusing on her, her reactions, her intent, and her wants. You need to focus on yourself.
> 
> I don't buy the whole "fog" crap. It absolves cheaters of responsibility. There was no fog when they started down the path. There was no fog as they passed several clear boundaries. There is no fog once they get involved. The idea of fog gives the betrayed some imaginary enemy to fight. I see it all the time, "If I could just snap her out of it", "If I could wake them up"... The betrayed live in a fog. Their lives were turned upside down, instead of hearing that their loved one died suddenly, they learn that their loved one cheated. Now, unlike death, the betrayed want to negotiate and do all kind of things to "resurrect" their waywards. Stop.
> 
> If you want separation, then fine. If you want it because you think its what she wants, then you will suffer. She will cheat and you will pine away. You cannot "wake her up" as she is already awake.
> 
> Since you are so invested in the marriage and getting her back, you will only pursue courses of action that don't risk losing her and it. But you are the one in a confused state of mind. Since you are unwilling to lose your marriage, you will lose yourself and ultimately your marriage. If, on the other hand, you are willing to walk away from her and your marriage then you stand a chance. You stand a chance of living a happy and fulfilled life without this woman (good) or you stand a chance of forcing her to realize that sh[t is getting real and she might want to chose whom she wishes to grow old with cause you are moving on. If she chooses you (not so good imho), you get to decide if you want that or not. While I am all for walking away, some folks just have to hang on. Read a lot of stories on this site and others about those that get back. I tend to see more empty shell folks that could not detach. There are success stories, but they are in the minority.
> 
> Bottom line, you make the call based on what is best for LAWDAWG. She does not get to dictate the terms of your heartbreak or happiness anymore. If that does not answer your questions let me know and I will be more specific.


Thanks for this. The more and more time passes, the easier things are getting. In addition to telling her that she needs to leave, I've been ignoring her completely. We only talk when it's about the kids and we still sleep separately. I have noticed that since I've been doing all of this, her attitude has changed. She has a much worse attitude problem and she's been trying her best to set me off. Today I needed to write an address for her and she threw the pen and paper on the table like I disgust her. I didn't say anything. I just picked up the pen and wrote the address. This is huge for me since normally it would have set me off. It's almost like she is becoming frustrated that I'm not even giving her the benefit of the day.

I don't know if we will try to fix the marriage and the next marriage appointment is in another week. Besides the emotional lost and possibly my kids, I have absolutely nothing to lose if she leaves. Her on the other hand will have to change her whole lifestyle. No more Coach and MK bags for her. She will need to learn how to survive on her own and have to sacrifice for the kids. She's been taken care of her entire life and she even admitted to me a while ago that she's afraid to be out on her own. That same day, she teased me that she has plenty of friends that would let her move in. That was back when I thought that I should move out because it was the right thing to do. She knows that I have few friends and none that I'm comfortable with asking to move in with. With that being said, I don't think I would be able to believe her if she came to me today and told me that she wanted to work on the marriage. For all I know, she could just be settling for me in hopes that she can go back to her worry free life of online shopping, netflix, and screwing her lover. I don't even know if there is anything that she can do to prove to me that she really loves me and that she will start respecting me. The more and more I think about this, the more logical divorce seems.

Also, I still haven't received one penny of her share of the bills. I know when we eventually talk about it, she will claim that she forgot or she spent it all on holiday gifts. That right there shows me how much she respects me.


----------



## NoChoice

Lawdawg,
This is very true. She has no respect for you whatsoever. The reason she becomes so enraged when you do not acknowledge her is because you take her power to get under your skin and she hates it. People say that hate is the opposite of love but really it's not. Love and hate are actually the same in that they are both strong emotions just aimed in different directions. The opposite of strong emotion is indifference. When you can show her that you truly do not care either way (love or hate) then you will have removed all of her power to manipulate you. Only then do you have a chance of getting her back, if that is what you still want when the time comes. I would consider this carefully.


----------



## happyman64

Lawdawg

Nothing shows a wayward wife consequences like holding out your hand for her share of the bills.

Start there.

Tell her that her freedom comes with a price. Paying her share of the bills.

And I will crime in that separation in certain cases is just a waste of time. Her separation will be funded by you.

Just like all her past "fun" times have been funded by you.

The quicker she sees reality the fater her feet will hit the floor.

Show her consequences.

HM


----------



## shalom_82

My heart goes out to you. It sounds like you and your wife are working up to the hard work that goes into splitting up... Please let me just say a few things from the perspective of an adult child of divorced parents. 

As I've grown up, my hopes of my parents reconciling faded and I accept that my parents were not going to be happy and healthy together. I believe that they did the right thing for me and my sister as well as for themselves by splitting. I'm glad that they had their time together, made me and my sister, and split up. Such is life.

Second, the hurts that I have experienced and still affect me to this day stem from my parents not being there for ME. You can be a wonderful father without being married to your children's mother. I wish that my father had kept me in all of his decisions, such as where to move and how much time to spend with me and just being there for important times in my life. As much as possible, do not let your relationship with your wife affect the relationships with your children.

Last, I would like to suggest that you not think in terms of either you or your wife staying put in your home. When it comes to splitting, the mindset should be that both of you move to new places. Hopefully, you both get setup with equally good places for the children to come to so visitation is as easy as possible on them. Distances shouldn't be far, the differences in their two homes should be minimal so they can transition easily each time they have to go from one place to the next. Things like that. There will be enough upsets in their lives whether you stay married or go ahead with divorce, so just do what you can to be there for them and to help them get through them. That's what I'd like all fathers to do.


----------



## carmen ohio

lawdawg,

A few weeks ago, I made the post below. I'm reposting it because, while you seem to have made a bit of progress in locating your _cojones_, you still display most of the signs of _'nice guy'_ syndrome (NGS). As many guys on this site can attest, NGS, if left untreated, is fatal to to male-female relationships and, ultimately, to manliness itself.



carmen ohio said:


> Dear lawdawg,
> 
> First, let me thank you for your service.
> 
> You face a number of serious problems and, IMO, your marriage is not the most important one. Rather, as you yourself indicate, you need to rebuild your life and prepare for a better future. That requires that you regain your self-confidence and independence.
> 
> Based on what your therapist told you, it sounds like you suffer from what is commonly called the _'nice guy'_ syndrome. It is a form of codependence.
> 
> Please download _"No More Mr. Nice Guy"_ by Dr. Robert Glover. Here's the link: https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf. Read it and do the exercises. It can help you.


Please, download the book (it's free). Read it. It really will help you.


----------



## lawdawg

carmen ohio said:


> lawdawg,
> 
> A few weeks ago, I made the post below. I'm reposting it because, while you seem to have made a bit of progress in locating your _cojones_, you still display most of the signs of _'nice guy'_ syndrome (NGS). As many guys on this site can attest, NGS, if left untreated, is fatal to to male-female relationships and, ultimately, to manliness itself.
> 
> 
> 
> Please, download the book (it's free). Read it. It really will help you.


I don't think I responded to your original message but I did take the advice. I'm already about 25% through the book and it's like the author is talking directly to me. Thanks again!


----------



## HobbesTheTiger

It's great that you're reading this, it has helped me tremendously.

I'd also recommend you read these advice - http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...prepare-potential-divorce-custody-battle.html .

When will she moving out?

What's your "battle plan" for the next couple of weeks?


----------



## RV9

Your life is a game for her. She's mad coz you aren't playing anymore.


----------



## turnera

lawdawg, what are you doing to change up your life? Are you going on walks, hitting the gym, hanging out with friends?


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## carmen ohio

lawdawg said:


> I don't think I responded to your original message but I did take the advice. I'm already about 25% through the book and it's like the author is talking directly to me. Thanks again!


You've made my day.


----------



## lawdawg

turnera said:


> lawdawg, what are you doing to change up your life? Are you going on walks, hitting the gym, hanging out with friends?


Well I've been doing ok. I've dropped 15 pounds already and I'm looking to drop another 10 before the new year comes. I've been spending most of my free time around the house painting, working in the garage, and spending time with the kids. I took them bowling yesterday and we're going to see a movie on tomorrow. I've been reconnecting with a few old friends and we plan to get together soon for a jam session. I'm sleeping in the other room and I barely have any contact with her. We did have a conversation earlier and it was a bit awkward. First, she told me out the blue to take her car off the car insurance since she's going with another company and also to cancel her phone as she is going with another service. Normally, in these situations, I would ask her why and try to plead with her. Instead, I just told her ok and that it would be effective immediately. I went online and took her car off the policy and that knocked $1k off of the total premium. There's a part on there where you are supposed to tell them what company did you switch to and when I asked her, she said she didn't know which one she was going with. I'm thinking it was a bluff because she didn't really think I was going to cancel it. The change is effective Monday so I told her that as of Tuesday, she will not have any car insurance unless she finds another company on her own. As for the phone, I was ready to call and cancel it but now she said that she needs until the end of the month and she also wants to keep her number. I think this was all a ploy to get a rise out of me or to get me begging her again to try to make things work.

She also initiated a talk about our future. She asked me why did I decide to stay and told her that she could leave. I told her that I know we had problems but at the end of the day, I did nothing wrong. She cheated so she needs to leave. She tried so hard to get a rise out of me but I just kept thinking about what I read here and I never raised my voice. At no point did I feel that she had power over me. She did say "IF" she moves out, it will be because of (insert list of marriage problems here). I didn't think about it until later but she said IF and not WHEN. Anyway, I stood my ground and told her that I'm not rushing her but the sooner she leaves, the better. I told her that if she leaves tomorrow, I will not miss her at all. That really hurt me to say that and even she said "Are you serious" when I said that. I told her that the decision is easy for me because I refuse to be with a woman that doesn't respect me. I told her that since she loves her friends so much and bragged about having lots of people to move in with, she could call one of them and see if they have room on their couch. At the end, she said she would leave and that she would need some furniture and a TV for the kids. Honestly, I don't know what she wants. She never mentioned divorce so I'm thinking she is hoping that her moving out will somehow rekindle our love and we can start over. Maybe that could happen but I don't know. Anyway, that's where we are. We have another appointment with the counselor on Tuesday and she has expressed a lot of interest in going. That's new because before, it was me that had to push her into going. I'm still keeping my guard up for now and I'm still focused on the kids. I don't want them to look back at this time and have any bad memories especially since it's the holidays.


----------



## farsidejunky

Yes!!! I freaking love the "I got it" moment. I bet the look on her face was priceless when you cancelled the insurance. 

You are starting to see things from 50000 feet now, brother.

The person that needs the relationship less has the power.


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## Suspecting2014

She is bluffing, she is afraid of D thats why she didnt say a thing about it.

The insurance and phone were a test, nothing more. IMO she is trying to get the control and she can see now that the way she has behaved all this time is taking you away after her affair.

Lets see what she has to say on MC.
Remember not to expect anything from her. 
Even if she starts to do the rigth things there is too much she should do before you concider to R

Stop talking to her about feelings, do 180 at 100 pecent


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## HobbesTheTiger

Good update, proud of you, man!

May I ask what do you want? Divorce or reconciliation? Under which conditions etc.? What are "the hills you're willing to die on", either in divorce or in reconciliation?

Best wishes


----------



## Mr.Fisty

She does not know what to make of the new you. You knocked her off balanced. She was expecting someone else, and you showed her strength. 

Only agree with her if it is beneficial for you. Like the insurance, it benefits you because you save money. Her moving out, will help you focus on you more. It really is,out of sight, out of mind as long as your busy. You will adapt to the new reality.

Wear a calm, cool, collective mask around her. Talk dispassionately as much as you can towards her. Seek neutral.


----------



## lawdawg

HobbesTheTiger said:


> Good update, proud of you, man!
> 
> May I ask what do you want? Divorce or reconciliation? Under which conditions etc.? What are "the hills you're willing to die on", either in divorce or in reconciliation?
> 
> Best wishes


That's a tough question. As far as the cheating, I forgive her. It's going to take some time for me to get over the trust issues but I do forgive her. The thing that has me leaning towards divorce is the fact that she doesn't respect me. For years, I always felt that I was number 2 in her life with her friends being number 1. I always put my own feelings and needs aside just so she could be happy. I've always took responsibility for the problems in our marriage and it's always been my job to "fix" things. When I look back at our arguments in the past, it was always about something that I did or didn't do. She never took responsibility for the problems in our marriage and I allowed it to happen. I have a lot of resentment and anger in my heart which is why I'm leaning towards divorce. If she can somehow change her ways, take half of the ownership for the problems in our marriage, and make me get the feeling that she respects me, then I'm willing to work on the marriage. Sadly, I think she is too oblivious to my needs and she won't change. When I told her that I feel that she doesn't respect me, she said, "I don't even know what that means". I told her that she'll realize it one day. Also, in her mind, she didn't cheat since she didn't have sex. I told her that it doesn't matter and that even if she did have sex, the emotional involvement is much worse in my eyes.


----------



## G.J.

Lawdawg :smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:

The new you...*OWN IT*


----------



## RWB

lawdawg said:


> The thing that has me leaning towards divorce is the fact that she doesn't respect me. *For years, I always felt that I was number 2 in her life* with her friends being number 1.
> 
> I always put my own feelings and needs aside just so she could be happy. I've always took responsibility for the problems in our marriage and it's *always been my job to "fix" things. *
> 
> When I look back at our arguments in the past, *it was always about something that I did or didn't do.* She never took responsibility for the problems in our marriage and I allowed it to happen. I have a lot of resentment and anger in my heart..


LD,

When I finally caught my wife cheating (years of lies), this was exactly the state of our marriage. You sound (like me) the classic Fixer and Provider. 

I recently asked my to name 3 things that I personally asked her to Do For Me? She looked at me and drew a blank... finally she said Sex, as in a duty. 

You state that your are #2... I got shuttled to #4

#1 children i
#2 her parents
#3 friends
#4 me

As you state, total lack of Respect.


----------



## happyman64

Lawdawg

Keep giving the tough love and showing her consequences.

HM


----------



## carmen ohio

lawdawg said:


> That's a tough question. As far as the cheating, I forgive her. It's going to take some time for me to get over the trust issues but I do forgive her. The thing that has me leaning towards divorce is the fact that she doesn't respect me. For years, I always felt that I was number 2 in her life with her friends being number 1. I always put my own feelings and needs aside just so she could be happy. I've always took responsibility for the problems in our marriage and it's always been my job to "fix" things. When I look back at our arguments in the past, it was always about something that I did or didn't do. She never took responsibility for the problems in our marriage and I allowed it to happen. I have a lot of resentment and anger in my heart which is why I'm leaning towards divorce. If she can somehow change her ways, take half of the ownership for the problems in our marriage, and make me get the feeling that she respects me, then I'm willing to work on the marriage. Sadly, I think she is too oblivious to my needs and she won't change. When I told her that I feel that she doesn't respect me, she said, "I don't even know what that means". I told her that she'll realize it one day. Also, in her mind, she didn't cheat since she didn't have sex. I told her that it doesn't matter and that even if she did have sex, the emotional involvement is much worse in my eyes.


lawdawg,

You are beginning to get what marriage, cheating and reconciliation are all about. But, to shorten your learning curve, here are a few fundamentals:


A marriage is only as strong as the commitment of the least committed partner. What this means is that, if one party is not committed to his or her marriage, the marriage is in trouble no matter how much the other is committed. It may survive, if the more committed partner is willing to put up with a crappy marriage and the less committed partner does not end it, but ultimately it will be a marriage in name only.
A corollary of the first point is that the partner who is least committed to the marriage has greater control over it. Since, in the western world today, either party can walk away from the marriage with little or for no reason, the party who is less committed can extract concessions from the other simply by threatening, explicitly or implicitly, to end the marriage. As long as the more committed partner refuses to end the marriage, the less committed partner can, for example, regularly go carousing with toxic friends, carry on inappropriate internet relationships members of the opposite sex, behave badly at home, withhold sex and even cheat.
Sexual attraction is transient and sexual novelty is stimulating. As a result, marriages based on the physical attraction of the parties for each other are inherently unstable. Conversely, marriages based on more evolutionarily fundamental values, such as sexually attractive behavior and economic interest, are more stable (see _"MMSLP"_).
Once one marriage partner begins to lose interest in the other, that partner will over time find it increasingly easy to justify conduct that is destructive of the marriage until, ultimately, virtually no conduct (including adultery) will be considered unjustified. In practical language, what this means is that cheaters can almost always come up with what they believe are convincing reasons why it was OK for them to cheat.
A related point is that, especially for cheating women, the opposite of love is more often lack of respect than hate. A cheating partner may in fact still have _'feelings'_ for the betrayed partner, albeit ones of pity.
After infidelity occurs, it is rare for the cheating partner to feel significant guilt or genuine remorse unless and until he or she experiences painful repercussions (such as exposure of the affair to family, friends and co-workers, withdrawal of the other partners affection and the threat if not the act of filing for divorce). Even if these things occur, a significant percentage of cheaters never feel guilt or remorse.
A corollary of point 6 is that a betrayed partner will rarely succeed at regaining the wayward's love or respect by chasing after, pleading with or lavishing things on him or her.
The implication of the foregoing is that, if infidelity occurs, the betrayed spouse must in most cases be prepared to end the marriage in order to have any chance of saving it. As long as the wayward is remains less committed to the marriage, he or she has little incentive to go through the painful process of admitting what he or she did, attempting to earning forgiveness and identifying and overcoming the character flaws that led to adultery.
In order for reconciliation to succeed, the betrayed must convince the wayward of his or her preparedness to end the marriage, not just when the affair is discovered but well into the reconciliation process. Otherwise, the wayward is likely to fall back on rugsweeping and gaslighting in order to avoid the so-called heavy lifting. In many cases, once the initial threat of divorce fades from memory, the wayward may even rekindle the affair; hence the need for the betrayed to periodically reinforce the _'I am prepared to divorce you'_ message.
The most effective way of convincing a wayward spouse of one's willingness to end the marriage is to file for divorce. If the wayward then demonstrates genuine remorse and a willingness to do what is necessary to reestablish trust, the divorce procedure can be ended (or if the divorce has already been granted the reconciled parties can remarry).
Hope this helps.


----------



## ThePheonix

Carmen, As its stated in #6, significant guilt or genuine remorse comes from the cheater experiencing painful repercussions, such as exposure of the affair to family, friends and co-workers, etc.
This being the case, the cheater is remorseful for the pain it has caused them; not the pain it caused the BS.
I do agree that's the way it goes down. I don't agree that the definition of "guilt and true remorse.

Additionally, on the issue of "trust", most often the BS comments that, "I'm having trouble trusting my spouse again" as if a person is failing to make a conscience effort to trust. "Trust" is more of a reaction to the other persons actions over a period of time. You don't just decide, "I'm going to trust them" without merit on their part.


----------



## harrybrown

Have you exposed her A to everyone and also to the OM's family?

Do not bother going to counseling. She has to be remorseful and she is not remorseful.

How old are the kids?


----------



## loyallad

RWB said:


> You state that your are #2... I got shuttled to #4
> 
> #1 children i
> #2 her parents
> #3 friends
> #4 me
> 
> As you state, total lack of Respect.


At least you are #4 RWB. I come in a very distant LAST PLACE!
WW puts me behind all those you mention as well as 1) her job, 2) the effin gym, 3) the laundry...... The list goes on and on. Oh well, at least I know where I stand.


----------



## loyallad

lawdawg said:


> That's a tough question. As far as the cheating, I forgive her. It's going to take some time for me to get over the trust issues but I do forgive her. The thing that has me leaning towards divorce is the fact that she doesn't respect me. For years, I always felt that I was number 2 in her life with her friends being number 1. I always put my own feelings and needs aside just so she could be happy. I've always took responsibility for the problems in our marriage and it's always been my job to "fix" things. When I look back at our arguments in the past, it was always about something that I did or didn't do. She never took responsibility for the problems in our marriage and I allowed it to happen. I have a lot of resentment and anger in my heart which is why I'm leaning towards divorce. If she can somehow change her ways, take half of the ownership for the problems in our marriage, and make me get the feeling that she respects me, then I'm willing to work on the marriage. Sadly, I think she is too oblivious to my needs and she won't change. When I told her that I feel that she doesn't respect me, she said, "I don't even know what that means". I told her that she'll realize it one day. Also, in her mind, she didn't cheat since she didn't have sex. I told her that it doesn't matter and that even if she did have sex, the emotional involvement is much worse in my eyes.


lawdawg I see your WW also flunked geography. Denial ain't that river in Egypt. 

Doubtful she's going to change her ways. She doesn't show remorse so nothing weighs on her mind or heart to want to change. All the wishing and talking to her in the world won't help. If she's not willing then you're just pissing in the wind.


----------



## Chaparral

From what I'm reading you still haven't read MMSLP. You're wandering in the wilderness without a map or compass. You're going to get nowhere with out regaining her respect.

While you're reading it do the 180. See how she reacts to you actually not giving a sh!t if she comes or goes.


----------



## justsomedudeNJ

lawdawg said:


> I told her that if we separate, I am gone for good and I am not coming back. She said "oh you'll be back".


Leave her. Right now. Maybe you already have as I only read your first post. I hope you have. I'll keep reading, but not until after work. Leave her. Now.


----------



## LongWalk

Cut off her money and divorce her. Don't engage in relationship discussion. Be polite, pleasant and detached.


----------



## badmemory

carmen ohio said:


> A marriage is only as strong as the commitment of the least committed partner. What this means is that, if one party is not committed to his or her marriage, the marriage is in trouble no matter how much the other is committed. It may survive, if the more committed partner is willing to put up with a crappy marriage and the less committed partner does not end it, but ultimately it will be a marriage in name only.
> A corollary of the first point is that the partner who is least committed to the marriage has greater control over it. Since, in the western world today, either party can walk away from the marriage with little or for no reason, the party who is less committed can extract concessions from the other simply by threatening, explicitly or implicitly, to end the marriage. As long as the more committed partner refuses to end the marriage, the less committed partner can, for example, regularly go carousing with toxic friends, carry on inappropriate internet relationships members of the opposite sex, behave badly at home, withhold sex and even cheat.
> Sexual attraction is transient and sexual novelty is stimulating. As a result, marriages based on the physical attraction of the parties for each other are inherently unstable. Conversely, marriages based on more evolutionarily fundamental values, such as sexually attractive behavior and economic interest, are more stable (see _"MMSLP"_).
> Once one marriage partner begins to lose interest in the other, that partner will over time find it increasingly easy to justify conduct that is destructive of the marriage until, ultimately, virtually no conduct (including adultery) will be considered unjustified. In practical language, what this means is that cheaters can almost always come up with what they believe are convincing reasons why it was OK for them to cheat.
> A related point is that, especially for cheating women, the opposite of love is more often lack of respect than hate. A cheating partner may in fact still have _'feelings'_ for the betrayed partner, albeit ones of pity.
> After infidelity occurs, it is rare for the cheating partner to feel significant guilt or genuine remorse unless and until he or she experiences painful repercussions (such as exposure of the affair to family, friends and co-workers, withdrawal of the other partners affection and the threat if not the act of filing for divorce). Even if these things occur, a significant percentage of cheaters never feel guilt or remorse.
> A corollary of point 6 is that a betrayed partner will rarely succeed at regaining the wayward's love or respect by chasing after, pleading with or lavishing things on him or her.
> The implication of the foregoing is that, if infidelity occurs, the betrayed spouse must in most cases be prepared to end the marriage in order to have any chance of saving it. As long as the wayward is remains less committed to the marriage, he or she has little incentive to go through the painful process of admitting what he or she did, attempting to earning forgiveness and identifying and overcoming the character flaws that led to adultery.
> In order for reconciliation to succeed, the betrayed must convince the wayward of his or her preparedness to end the marriage, not just when the affair is discovered but well into the reconciliation process. Otherwise, the wayward is likely to fall back on rugsweeping and gaslighting in order to avoid the so-called heavy lifting. In many cases, once the initial threat of divorce fades from memory, the wayward may even rekindle the affair; hence the need for the betrayed to periodically reinforce the _'I am prepared to divorce you'_ message.
> The most effective way of convincing a wayward spouse of one's willingness to end the marriage is to file for divorce. If the wayward then demonstrates genuine remorse and a willingness to do what is necessary to reestablish trust, the divorce procedure can be ended (or if the divorce has already been granted the reconciled parties can remarry).


That; should be a sticky. Logical, to the point, unemotional, easy to understand. You're beginning to make me re-think lawyers carmen ohio.


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## lawdawg

Guys I need some interpretation about what just happened. She was adamant about having the counseling session and we went earlier. During the session, she pretty much said that she plans to leave this Saturday and either stay with her sister or get her own place. It didn't really sound like she had a plan in place. She said that she wants to be close to her job as well as his school. I mentioned how I didn't see the use in separating when I've been disrespected for so long. I was blind sided with her mentioning leaving this weekend since Christmas is next week and I earned the kids to spend the holiday at home with their tree and all their gifts. The counselor pretty much gave us guidance on getting a lawyer and getting therapy for our oldest. That thought scares me since my oldest has little to no idea that something is wrong and he is about to be blind sided. We ended the session not making a followup appointment since we agreed that divorce is the only option. I could add that divorce is my idea while she is keen on separation. Anyway, we get outside and I ask her if she is happy. I told her that this is what she wanted and she should be happy. I also wished her luck and told her that I would get a truck if she needs help moving this weekend. She started crying and cried more and more until she got in her car and went back to work.

So now I'm confused. I thought she wanted the single life and I thought this is what she wanted. A few weeks back, I put myself down telling her that I'm sorry and that I want to fix things. She looked me in my eye and told me it's better we separate and I will miss her. Since then, I told her that I would not miss her if she left tomorrow. She doesn't believe me but I was serious. Now I don't know what to think. It's almost like she wants me to get on my knees and beg her to give the marriage another chance. I thought she would be happy that she is back on the market but it seems to be just the opposite. Maybe she is just going to miss being taken care of since now, everything is on her shoulders. I don't know what to make of all this.


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## naiveonedave

she is either lying to you or truly doesn't know what she wants. 

I think you need to lead, not follow. You are following her lead. She moves, out you keep the kids, give the a great Xmas, independent of what the W does.


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## Mr.Fisty

You really cannot read too much into it, it will drive you crazy. You can come up with a multitude of possibilities and still be wrong. She pretty much wants you to place your life on hold for her, while she explores. She is not doing it to work on herself, and why should you wait around. In about a years time, what if she found someone new, and breaks your marriage, while you have wasted a year of your life waiting for her. Life is precious and does not go on hold for anyone. You will not get that lost time back. 

As for your child, just be a stable role model for them. Teach them what you learn as they get older, and teach them about boundaries, and how to act in a relationship. Teach them how to spot red flags, so they have a better chance of finding someone.


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## badmemory

Tears are not even close to the most important thing you'd need to see from her. Tears come easily.

When you've been married a good while, I'd say it's typical for even a cheating non-remorseful spouse, particularly a woman, to get emotional when there is some finality to the separation. But it's mostly due to the loss of companionship and familiarity. If she wanted to save the marriage, and was willing to own what she did, she would demonstrate remorse.

I'm not trying to minimize the fact that she still cares about you. I'm sure she does. But don't be blinded by your own emotions - as hard as it is. You did the right thing.


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## ButtPunch

lawdawg said:


> Anyway, we get outside and I ask her if she is happy. I told her that this is what she wanted and she should be happy. I also wished her luck and told her that I would get a truck if she needs help moving this weekend.


She wants it all Lawdog. It's called cake-eating. You did great except for the above. Don't ask her if she's happy and don't help her move. You have plans that day. 


180


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## terrence4159

it is just an act she is putting on right now to get you to feel bad for her, to keep you on the hook as plan b. trust me mine did the same thing. dont fall for it. she is sad she is missing her security blanket and your wallet, thats it.

hang tough man it will get better.


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## the guy

Here's what I think....I think reality is slowly sinking in and what really sucks....I mean who moves a week before Christmas, hell that's sad all by it's self.

I'm guessing your old lady is just scared.

And another thing moving just sucks....I mean you gotta pack your crap, move your crap into a truck or something then haul it a cross town and hope nothing falls out....then you gotta do it all over again and carry your crap into the new place and unpack it all. maybe she is crying cuz she got a place on the top floor?

I'd be cry too if I had to move...even more so if it was on Christmas!


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## lawdawg

the guy said:


> Here's what I think....I think reality is slowly sinking in and what really sucks....I mean who moves a week before Christmas, hell that's sad all by it's self.
> 
> I'm guessing your old lady is just scared.
> 
> And another thing moving just sucks....I mean you gotta pack your crap, move your crap into a truck or something then haul it a cross town and hope nothing falls out....then you gotta do it all over again and carry your crap into the new place and unpack it all. maybe she is crying cuz she got a place on the top floor?
> 
> I'd be cry too if I had to move...even more so if it was on Christmas!


I kind of feel the same way. I think it was a bluff to get a reaction out of me. I mean, she hasn't even started trying to move and Saturday is just a few days away. On top of that, I don't know why she would move less than 1 week before Christmas. Our oldest is looking forward to it as all his gifts are already under the tree. If she wants to work things out, she needs to just come out and tell me. Not playing these stupid mind games. I'm done anyway. I'll try to enjoy the holiday if I can then I will get a lawyer and start the divorce process.


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## lawdawg

badmemory said:


> Tears are not even close to the most important thing you'd need to see from her. Tears come easily.
> 
> When you've been married a good while, I'd say it's typical for even a cheating non-remorseful spouse, particularly a woman, to get emotional when there is some finality to the separation. But it's mostly due to the loss of companionship and familiarity. If she wanted to save the marriage, and was willing to own what she did, she would demonstrate remorse.
> 
> I'm not trying to minimize the fact that she still cares about you. I'm sure she does. But don't be blinded by your own emotions - as hard as it is. You did the right thing.


Maybe that's what it is. I was just surprised since I thought she would be jumping for joy. All this time, she called me jealous, called me gay, and called me insecure. If I were living with someone like that, I would be happy when it was time to leave. Oh well, I guess that's life. I've learned so much over the past few weeks that it's not even funny. It just sucks seeing her go through that earlier and being that I do still have feelings for her, it was hard not to reach out and comfort her.


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## G.J.

Hang in Lawdawg your doing fine at the minute
Give the kids a great xmas


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## GusPolinski

lawdawg said:


> Guys I need some interpretation about what just happened. She was adamant about having the counseling session and we went earlier. During the session, she pretty much said that she plans to leave this Saturday and either stay with her sister or get her own place. It didn't really sound like she had a plan in place. She said that she wants to be close to her job as well as his school.


Wait... whose school?



lawdawg said:


> I mentioned how I didn't see the use in separating when I've been disrespected for so long. I was blind sided with her mentioning leaving this weekend since Christmas is next week and I earned the kids to spend the holiday at home with their tree and all their gifts. The counselor pretty much gave us guidance on getting a lawyer and getting therapy for our oldest. That thought scares me since my oldest has little to no idea that something is wrong and he is about to be blind sided. We ended the session not making a followup appointment since we agreed that divorce is the only option. I could add that divorce is my idea while she is keen on separation. Anyway, we get outside and I ask her if she is happy. I told her that this is what she wanted and she should be happy. I also wished her luck and told her that I would get a truck if she needs help moving this weekend. She started crying and cried more and more until she got in her car and went back to work.
> 
> So now I'm confused. I thought she wanted the single life and I thought this is what she wanted. A few weeks back, I put myself down telling her that I'm sorry and that I want to fix things. She looked me in my eye and told me it's better we separate and I will miss her. Since then, I told her that I would not miss her if she left tomorrow. She doesn't believe me but I was serious. Now I don't know what to think. *It's almost like she wants me to get on my knees and beg her to give the marriage another chance.* I thought she would be happy that she is back on the market but it seems to be just the opposite. Maybe she is just going to miss being taken care of since now, everything is on her shoulders. I don't know what to make of all this.


That's probably true to some degree. Either way, your best case scenario here would mean that she truly doesn't know whether or not she wants to end the marriage, whether or not she'll be able to put in the work required to reconcile, etc; therefore, she wants to separate for a while as a sort of trial. On the other hand, a worst case scenario has her looking to ride the c*ck carousel for a while so that she can land another guy while separated from you, leaving her free of any guilt involved in doing so... because hey, you'd be separted. *Right...?!?*

The bottom line either way is that, by virtue of you pushing for divorce instead of separation, you're taking options away from her, and she doesn't like it.


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## 3putt

GusPolinski said:


> You're taking options away from her, and she doesn't like it.


Yep! She was expecting you to beg her not to do this and you didn't bow to her.

Now she's really thinking things through. And it ain't purty.


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## Mr Blunt

> *By lawdawg*
> I thought she would be happy that she is back on the market but it seems to be just the opposite. Maybe she is just going to miss being taken care of since now, everything is on her shoulders. I don't know what to make of all this.



*Your wife is twisted in her mind and emotions so stop allowing her to confuse you or take your time and emotions to focus on her*. You have already stated what you are going to do so be a leader and focus on you plan.

*In your situation you should remember that emotions cannot be trusted. Instead look at only actions as they tell the truth.* Has her actions shown you that you are her number one man and has she proven that she has forsaken all other men? Has she taken at least 50% of the responsibility for this mess? Has she apologized and shown you with actions that she regrets deeply her disrespect she has shown you and then done everything to prove that she will respect you? *Those are just a few of the ACTIONS that will tell you the truth. *Make your list of the ACTIONS you would like for her to do and then list the things she has done to prove her remorse. Her crying all the way to the car means nothing!

You cannot afford to trust emotions; it was those selfish emotions that got your wife to betray you and replace you with another man. She was not being true to her principles and acting on those principles but going with her emotions. Emotions are very good when you follow the right principles and logic. Without principles and logic you have what you have; a woman that is twisted in mind and emotions and a man that is hurt to the bone and children that will have to suffer before they get better.

*Stick with your principles and logic and keep focusing on you and your children!!!* You and your children will be a lot better if you do that.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

lawdawg said:


> it was hard not to reach out and comfort her.


Not your job anymore.

She fired you.

It's tough to watch and not try to help her, but she is where she is because of her own choices. Not you.

You're where you are, not by your own choices. That's tough enough to deal with.

Let her figure her own problems out. You need to spend your energy on your kids and you right now.

If she moves in with her GF, then starts seeing the OM again, or dating... You'll know that her show of tears was just that - A show.


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## bigfoot

dawg,
That part where you took her tears as her signaling you that she wanted you to get on your knees and beg her to try again....that was all you. The heart makes us see things that are not there. of all that she could have said or signaled to you, or thought, why that act of desperation? that was all your heart projecting....sorry.

Her tears validate your past history. Her actions confirm her intent and desire. she still got in the car and left. your desire to comfort her also validates your past. you refusal to act on it confirm that you can move on.


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## carmen ohio

badmemory said:


> That; should be a sticky. Logical, to the point, unemotional, easy to understand. *You're beginning to make me re-think lawyers* carmen ohio.


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## carmen ohio

lawdawg said:


> Guys I need some interpretation about what just happened. She was adamant about having the counseling session and we went earlier. During the session, she pretty much said that she plans to leave this Saturday and either stay with her sister or get her own place. It didn't really sound like she had a plan in place. She said that she wants to be close to her job as well as his school. I mentioned how I didn't see the use in separating when I've been disrespected for so long. I was blind sided with her mentioning leaving this weekend since Christmas is next week and I earned the kids to spend the holiday at home with their tree and all their gifts. The counselor pretty much gave us guidance on getting a lawyer and getting therapy for our oldest. That thought scares me since my oldest has little to no idea that something is wrong and he is about to be blind sided. We ended the session not making a followup appointment since we agreed that divorce is the only option. I could add that divorce is my idea while she is keen on separation. Anyway, we get outside and I ask her if she is happy. I told her that this is what she wanted and she should be happy. I also wished her luck and told her that I would get a truck if she needs help moving this weekend. She started crying and cried more and more until she got in her car and went back to work.
> 
> So now I'm confused. I thought she wanted the single life and I thought this is what she wanted. A few weeks back, I put myself down telling her that I'm sorry and that I want to fix things. She looked me in my eye and told me it's better we separate and I will miss her. Since then, I told her that I would not miss her if she left tomorrow. She doesn't believe me but I was serious. Now I don't know what to think. It's almost like she wants me to get on my knees and beg her to give the marriage another chance. I thought she would be happy that she is back on the market but it seems to be just the opposite. Maybe she is just going to miss being taken care of since now, everything is on her shoulders. I don't know what to make of all this.


lawdawg,

This is simply an attempt to manipulate your emotions so that you will lose focus on what you know you need to do and become more accommodating to what she wants you to do.

From here on out (at least until your get divorced and probably for some time thereafter), you can expect that your WW will use a variety of tactics to embarrass you, shame you, anger you, make you feel sorry for her, make you feel the fool, etc. As a woman, she knows instinctively that, if she can get to you emotionally, you will be less rational and make poorer decisions. This, of course, will benefit her.

For the most part, men are creatures of reason and women are creatures of emotion. Don't forget this. You cannot begin to compete with her in the emotions department so don't even try. Also, don't spend much time trying to figure her out when she does things like this. Your not a woman so you'll never understand it.

Just continue to think things through and then apply what you believe to be the best solution to the _problème de jour.
_


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## ArmyofJuan

lawdawg said:


> Maybe that's what it is. I was just surprised since I thought she would be jumping for joy. All this time, she called me jealous, called me gay, and called me insecure. If I were living with someone like that, I would be happy when it was time to leave.


Considering how she treated you I would expect you to be jumping for joy, you don't have to tolerate her nonsense anymore.

She doesn't know how to handle you standing up for yourself but dollars to donuts a couple years from now she'll be telling people how you were the one that got away.

That's what happened to me and lucky I did get away, she was a nightmare.


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## Q tip

She can get her own truck and moving crew. You owe her nothing. Just make sure she don't rip you off. 

180 is a total cold shoulder. Start yesterday. You no longer care to even talk to her about anything except kids and D status.

When she's around, look at your watch/phone and you gotta be somewhere...

And spend your spare time reading and memorizing MMSLP.


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