# 56 year old wife sexting 25 year old boy.



## firedog1

Found out my wife of 28 years has been sexting a 25 year old boy that goes to our church. He also went to school with our 24 year old son and lives 2 blocks away.
She lied and told me she never sent or received any pictures but, I found evidence on our phone bill. She then said she only sent pictures of her cleavage and he sent pictures of his tatoos. 
I don't think I can go on with our marriage but, I don't want to hurt our children. There is no way to keep them from finding out. 
Any suggestions will be helpful!!!


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## walkonmars

Sorry you're going through this. 
Has she been 'ok' throughout the marriage or is this another sign that things are bad? 

IF you truly feel that the marriage is over don't concern yourself with what others think. Not even your children. You can explain as much as you feel you need - but don't allow room for her to paint you as the villain - something she's likely to do to protect herself. 

If all has been well up to now - you should probably consider heavy duty MC. But FIRST total honesty from her with what's really been going on is in order.


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## Falene

You have nothing to explain to your children. Your wife does.

The most important thing you need to know is that her behavior is not about you, it says nothing about YOU, it says something about her.

I am sorry you are dealing with this.


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## aug

firedog1 said:


> Found out my wife of 28 years has been sexting a 25 year old boy that goes to our church. He also went to school with our 24 year old son and lives 2 blocks away.
> She lied and told me she never sent or received any pictures but, I found evidence on our phone bill. She then said she only sent pictures of her cleavage and he sent pictures of his tatoos.
> I don't think I can go on with our marriage *but, I don't want to hurt our children.* There is no way to keep them from finding out.
> Any suggestions will be helpful!!!


Aren't your kids adults now?


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## that_girl

That sucks that she was doing this.

But 25 isn't a boy. I guess compared to someone in their 50s it is, but he's a grown man. 

Still sucks...your situation is sad  Try to cool off before making any big decisions.


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## CandieGirl

Why do you have to share the details with your kids?


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## Machiavelli

firedog1 said:


> Found out my wife of 28 years has been sexting a 25 year old boy that goes to our church. He also went to school with our 24 year old son and lives 2 blocks away.
> She lied and told me she never sent or received any pictures but, I found evidence on our phone bill. She then said she only sent pictures of her cleavage and he sent pictures of his tatoos.
> I don't think I can go on with our marriage but, I don't want to hurt our children. There is no way to keep them from finding out.
> Any suggestions will be helpful!!!


Why do you want to keep them from finding out? How old are they?

How long has this been going on?

How many messages? 

Does your wife work?

What did you tell her to do and what did she say back?

How often did you and your wife get it on prior to the sexting relationship?

Is your waist size over 34 at the navel? (I'm not joking, it's important).


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## Machiavelli

BTW, 25 years of age is not a boy, it's the end of the old (pre-invention of "adolescence") first segment of adulthood formerly known as "youth" (12-25) and the start of middle-age, 25-45.


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## MattMatt

See your pastor, priest, vicar or whoever.

And please try to establish if this has gone to a PA yet. You might need to get STD tests, you see.

And it is OK because she only sent him cleavage shots? Oh... brother!


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## SomedayDig

LMAO!! Waist size...oh, brother!!

OP...okay, so you know your children aren't children any more as pointed out here already. Basically, if they ask then you tell them the deal. No need for sordid details.

And you don't think you can continue your marriage to her after the sexting? What else has happened?


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## Entropy3000

that_girl said:


> That sucks that she was doing this.
> 
> But 25 isn't a boy. I guess compared to someone in their 50s it is, but he's a grown man.
> 
> Still sucks...your situation is sad  Try to cool off before making any big decisions.


25 is not a boy. Not even close.


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## chumplady

This is a serious suggestion, if this is totally out of character -- she may have the beginnings of Alzheimer's. Lack of inhibitions, sexual acting out -- is she being inappropriate in other ways? Consider an appointment with a neurologist. Read this:
Alzheimer's Disease and Inappropriate Behavior: What to Do If Your Loved One with Dementia Acts Out Sexually | Suite101.com

I know people cheat at any age, but with an age gap that great, that 25 year old is playing with your wife. Your wife is out of her mind if she's serious.

I'm so sorry, it's a painful situation. Please get professional help.


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## wiigirl

Falene said:


> You have nothing to explain to your children. Your wife does.
> 
> The most important thing you need to know is that her behavior is not about you, it says nothing about YOU, it says something about her.
> 
> I am sorry you are dealing with this.


Really, you are not in the wrong...she is...and eventually she has to face up to what she did.


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## firedog1

She has lost a lot of weight lately and now looks like she did 28 years ago. She has started reading all of the Grey's books and I think that is when it started.
As for me, I am 60 but, everyone thinks I am 50 or younger. I had a 5 way bypass 6 years ago. I have worked hard to get back into shape and am now 95 percent of what I was before. Flab is not the problem. I inherited my arteries and they were junk. 
She has not been interested in sex for many years. Every 2 months was more than enough for her. 
As for my kids. They are my life and I don't ever want to let them hate their Mother because of something this crazy.


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## Caribbean Man

I have seen situations like this before,especially when the woman involved is financially well off, and in good shape.
It seems to be a new sort of new trend among females.
I cant figure out the rationale behind it.

To the OP
On the surface it may appear out of character for her, but I think you need to dig deeper. These things don't just happen
" out of the blue." There is a certain type of thinking that goes with it.
Wife is thinking : I'm a hot cougar.
Boy is thinking : MILF in heat.

You need to get to the bottom of this. Let the threat of exposure be your weapon of choice,
And find out the truth. 
There may be lots more.........


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## Count of Monte Cristo

After having worked almost 20 years in telecom, I have to say that I miss the days when there was only one line into the home. Nowadays, everyone has their own phone, which makes it easier to carry on these clandestine affairs. Ten years ago, what 50-something knew anything about texting - much less sexting? 

Even though my current business is focused on cell phones, I'll be the first to admit that smartphones will probably be the death of civilization as we know it.

I'm so sorry that you're here.


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## tonyarz

He probably makes her feel young again. I doubt they would have sex. That would be kind of creepy with him being so young.


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## Caribbean Man

tonyarz said:


> He probably makes her feel young again. I doubt they would have sex. That would be kind of creepy with him being so young.


As long as he makes her feel young and sexy again,
She WILL want to have sex with him.

That's why she's sexting him.


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## that_girl

And he's not that young! It's not like he's 19 or something. He's 25. A man.


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## Thundarr

firedog1 said:


> Found out my wife of 28 years has been sexting a 25 year old boy that goes to our church. He also went to school with our 24 year old son and lives 2 blocks away.
> She lied and told me she never sent or received any pictures but, I found evidence on our phone bill. She then said she only sent pictures of her cleavage and he sent pictures of his tatoos.
> I don't think I can go on with our marriage but, I don't want to hurt our children. There is no way to keep them from finding out.
> Any suggestions will be helpful!!!


fire,
your wife has issues coping with reality. Reality is that she if 56 and any 25 man sexting her has a granny fetish. I don't know if I'd try to get her to a shrink or if I'd divorce her. I guess it depends on what kind of wife she's been before this.

I wouldn't place any weight on how it affects the kids though. She's responsible for how it affects them.


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## MattMatt

tonyarz said:


> He probably makes her feel young again. I doubt they would have sex. That would be kind of creepy with him being so young.


Really? At age 25 if a hot looking 56-year-old had come on to me? I'd have been there like a flash.

After all, I did have a brief relationship with a woman who was many years my senior. I was besotted with her.


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## Entropy3000

Sexting is unfaithful. If pictures are involved more so. If video is involved more so. This stuff escalates. That is the point. It has to to have the same effect.

Anyway, sexting is of course sexual in nature so it is not just emotional cheating. This is a level of sexually cheating. 

Will this likely lead to a PA of some kind. Ummm. Of course. They for sure would embrace, kiss and caress if nothing else. But the thing is once that starts it is not enough. 

The thing is this is being unfaithful and needs to stop. She needs to go full NC with this guy.

Some guys get off on banging other mens wives. It is a power thing. An ego boost. That a woman would risk everything just to have him.

Stop this non-sense unless you are enjoying it and it is something you want to escalate.


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## bahbahsheep

Yes I found it creepy too...


but that is what woman is like...
they frustrate me but they also inspire me


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## jnj express

You say you want out of the mge---if that is what you need to do---go for it

Is your wife looking for strange sex, cuz the 2 of you arn't that intimate anymore??

I will tell you this, your wife is screwed up, I don't care how much weight she lost, and how good she looks---she is 56 yrs old, and she ain't gonna find any decent relationships out there, if you cut her lose------what she will get is guys looking for sex, guys looking for her to support them, druggies, criminals, psychos---believe me, at her age level, and is you are in a small population center, she is in big trouble, if you dump her

As to her looks, it won't be long now before it will be cosmetics, or surgery that will give her any chance of continuing to look good, also she better be working out, pretty strenously, otherwise, other parts of her body won't look so good----and those little happenings, will come up on her fairly quickly!!!!!

If you wanna stay in this mge, and that is solely up to you, lay down the law, and tell her the way it will be, which should include, her doing a whole lot more to make the mge work in re:intimacy, and you giving her some very strong boundaries, with actionable consequences!!!!!

Why is she screwing around on you????does she even know, cuz it really is kind of late in life for her to be pulling this crap on you!!!!!!


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## Doc Who

Firedog

I am afraid those who said that this is the tip of the iceberg are correct. This is an affair and you need to shut it down.

That starts with two things - get yourself to a lawyer YESTERDAY to find out what a divorce entails. You do not have to file, but you need information as to what will happen so you can make a rational decision. You have to be prepared to tell her you will not share her while married and D is the trump card.

Second - EXPOSURE. This is not your fault. And the fallout is NOT YOUR FAULT. But you have to stop this now. Your wife is in a affair and selling her soul for kibbles of attention from your son's friend. That is positively SICK.

Gather your evidence, make copies, and expose. DO NOT TELL HER you are exposing this. Just do it. Make the affair a hellish place to be. Stop the fantasy now.

And as a doctor, you need to get a full panel STD test. Even though you have not had sex for a long time, I would not risk your life on the 25 year old using protection when they had sex , and yes, it is highly likely they already had sex.

Good luck brother. You will need strength.

And you will need to push past the fear of exposure. YOU HAVE TO DO THIS. Your children can forgive their mother almost anything. But you will never forgive yourself if you continue to let this fester.


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## hurtingbadly

Men go after girls that age all the time, it's interesting to me when it's flipped people find it disturbing. It's disturbing either way. Sorry about this. 

ETA - My WS cheated with a girl he says was at least 21 cause she was in the bar.


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## hurtingbadly

tonyarz said:


> He probably makes her feel young again. I doubt they would have sex. That would be kind of creepy with him being so young.


And would you say that if it was a 56 year old man and a 25 year old woman?


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## chillymorn

the real thing is she has been sexuly neglecting him for years..... most likley because she has been cheating for years.


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## Sara8

firedog1 said:


> Found out my wife of 28 years has been sexting a 25 year old boy that goes to our church. He also went to school with our 24 year old son and lives 2 blocks away.
> She lied and told me she never sent or received any pictures but, I found evidence on our phone bill. She then said she only sent pictures of her cleavage and he sent pictures of his tatoos.
> I don't think I can go on with our marriage but, I don't want to hurt our children. There is no way to keep them from finding out.
> Any suggestions will be helpful!!!


Your wife is likely has porn compulsion bordering on addiction, to do something so pervy. 

I can't even think of having sex with a 25 year old. It's like having sex with a kid. Eeeek!

Look up porn addiction. STudies show that it is at the root of the uprise in cheating, particularly among women. 

The OW in my STBEH's affair was addicted to porn, got lap dances from both women and men at clubs, took my husband to those places, and also sent him sex videos from the interent as well as homemade ones of herself. She was quite the pig, IMO.

And the fact that my husband was turned on by such a pig made me lose respect for him.


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## Count of Monte Cristo

jnj express said:


> Why is she screwing around on you????does she even know, cuz it really is kind of late in life for her to be pulling this crap on you!!!!!!


Late in life? She's just getting started. Statistically, she has another 30 years left to live. I used to think that once you hit fifty and was married that you didn't have to worry about infidelity. Boy was I wrong! I had no idea how many soon to be seniors were cheating on their spouses.


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## Sara8

Entropy3000 said:


> Some guys get off on banging other mens wives. It is a power thing. An ego boost. That a woman would risk everything just to have him.
> 
> Stop this non-sense unless you are enjoying it and it is something you want to escalate.


I agree, and this pertains to married woman who get off on banging married men and attempting to take them away from the wife. 

These cheating people have low self esteem and feed their egos in this perverted way.


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## Sara8

jnj express said:


> e 2 of you arn't that intimate anymore??
> 
> I will tell you this, your wife is screwed up, I don't care how much weight she lost, and how good she looks---she is 56 yrs old, and she ain't gonna find any decent relationships out there, if you cut her lose------what she will get is guys looking for sex, guys looking for her to support them, druggies, criminals, psychos---believe me, at her age level, and is you are in a small population center, she is in big trouble, if you dump her


Unless she has been hit by the ugly stick, this woman may find plenty of age appropriate men who want an attractive age appropriate wife. 

My pretty aunt divorced in her late 50s because her husband cheated.

Within a year she was married to an attractive and much much wealthier man six years her senior. 

This guy should boot his wife not because he thinks she can't find anyone else. He should boot her because she is a pig.

older men often find a young wife who uses them and cheats on them as they age.

Just adding some perspective


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## Sara8

hurtingbadly said:


> Men go after girls that age all the time, it's interesting to me when it's flipped people find it disturbing. It's disturbing either way. Sorry about this.
> 
> ETA - My WS cheated with a girl he says was at least 21 cause she was in the bar.


I agree and excellent point. 

A person young enough to be someone's child is a sick relationship. No matter man or women. 

Neither ever work out in the end. 

The man often gets cuckoled as he ages and/or the woman simply stays for the money. 

Best thing, IMO, that could happen to my cheating spouse is that he marry his 20 years junior OW. 

She is such self absorbed user, just like my spouse. He doesn't want her. But IMO, they deserve each other.


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## Thor

firedog1 said:


> As for my kids. They are my life and I don't ever want to let them hate their Mother because of something this crazy.


They won't hate her most likely. There was infidelity in my parents' marriage when I was in my mid 20's. They divorced and told us why. None of us kids hate any of the people involved. In fact we all recognize that the divorce was long overdue and they are happier now.

Don't assume the kids will hate their mom for doing this to you. They are likely not going to think of it that way, and you have a lot of power to frame the discussion with them. Instead of making yourself out to be the poor hapless victim, frame it as you are not willing to accept this within your marriage and so you chose to divorce. This is you with the power in the decision.

I think the part which helped us kids most with our parents was them telling us that they want us to continue having a good relationship with each of them separately. They did not ask us to take sides or try to convince us of the horribleness of the other.


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## Entropy3000

I don't know how many years I have left. I am 57 ... I look 35. Last week I set lifetime records in the Squat. I hope I am no where near retirement. 

While health can get you at anytime, the point is that this post is dead on. As they say 50 is the new 40 anyway. Yes this varies from person to person.

Why this matters? Well it truly matter on this forum. Issues folks did not feel they had to deal with years gone by are issues now. 

Hey my wife is no longer 25. Understood. However, this does not mean She and I do not require good boundaries still.

And really .. she is sending pictures of her cleavage to another man. I don't care how old they are. That says you have a free pass to F me. We just need to hook up. He is two blocks away. Ha! What makes you think they have not taken this physical yet?

Calling him a boy is counter productive. Because as a man that boy is taking your wife from you. He is not a boy. He is looking to nail your wife if he has not yet. She is looking to him for sex. Period.

You are helping to finance this. Stay away from those meat market churches.


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## badbane

firedog1 said:


> Found out my wife of 28 years has been sexting a 25 year old boy that goes to our church. He also went to school with our 24 year old son and lives 2 blocks away.
> She lied and told me she never sent or received any pictures but, I found evidence on our phone bill. She then said she only sent pictures of her cleavage and he sent pictures of his tatoos.
> I don't think I can go on with our marriage but, I don't want to hurt our children. There is no way to keep them from finding out.
> Any suggestions will be helpful!!!


First off you need to get the boy thing out of your head. Yes he may appear to you as a boy however at age 25 he is a man. Your son is a man. Your wife deserves to feel the full brunt of what she has done. Your son is likely find out one day when your wife's pictures the she sent him get forwarded to all of his friends. Yea that is pretty much exactly what is going to happen. Second you need to make sure the anger is only at your wife. She is the one the screwed up not this twenty five year old man. I am close to his age and I have children, a job, and a career. 

Have you examined her facebook, and email accounts since it is likely they could easily be messaging in facebook. Facebook messages won't show up on your phone bill. She will have to have a smart phone for this to be so. I think there is a lot more to this and you need to start digging before she dumps every thing in the trash.


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## Entropy3000

Sara8 said:


> Unless she has been hit by the ugly stick, this woman may find plenty of age appropriate men who want an attractive age appropriate wife.
> 
> My pretty aunt divorced in her late 50s because her husband cheated.
> 
> Within a year she was married to an attractive and much much wealthier man six years her senior.
> 
> This guy should boot his wife not because he thinks she can't find anyone else. He should boot her because she is a pig.
> 
> older men often find a young wife who uses them and cheats on them as they age.
> 
> Just adding some perspective


Yes. Women in their 50s will have men in their 50s available to them.


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## Entropy3000

I agree to hold the wife responsible but you have every right to hold that guy responsible too. They are both culpable.

The key is not to just blame the predator. In this case I think your wife and he are predatory.

So hold your wife accountable but also the 25 year guy. No free passes. I view anyone who has an affair with a marriage person to be a cheater whether they made vows or not. Sorry, I know its trendy for folks to give these people a free pass but it is absurd. There is nothing acceptable for a single person to be going after a married party. Who gets to decide this? The BS does.


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## thunderstruck

Amazing and sad how often "met in church" comes up in threads like this.


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## Thundarr

hurtingbadly said:


> Men go after girls that age all the time, it's interesting to me when it's flipped people find it disturbing. It's disturbing either way. Sorry about this.
> 
> ETA - My WS cheated with a girl he says was at least 21 cause she was in the bar.


Unless the gender role changes regarding who becomes pregnant then this double standard will never change. It's indirectly driven by physical realities.

It's screwed up but fair doesn't have anything to do with it.


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## alte Dame

This sounds like many of the bizarre stories that we hear today about seemingly stable, upstanding women suddenly acting out sexually in shocking ways. (There was a report of a woman in her 80's who aggressively presented her 80+ yo husband with handcuffs one night; she'd been reading 'Fifty Shades' with her women's book club.)

With the advent of e-readers, many average, respectable women are essentially addicted to the soft porn of modern romance novels & some of them are acting out because it's encouraging them to think in ways that hadn't really occurred to them before, especially about sexuality and their own desires.

Confiscate her Kindle or Nook; clear out her electronic library; make her go cold turkey for a month. I'm 58 & usually told that I look young for my age, but 25 years old? That's not within any range of OK.


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## firedog1

We live in a very small town, 2500. She works in a professional office. I am surprised it hasn't gotten around yet. He works out of town and just comes in once a month or so. 
I have heard someone knock on our bedroom outside wall in the early morning hours but, I never saw her get out of bed. I am a very light sleeper and would have seen her. 
I now sleep with a pistol near the bed and pack it with me when not working. I have told her, without a doubt, if I ever catch him near our home or near her, someone WILL die. I will shoot him like any other rabid dog!
I live in a right to carry state and we also have the Castle Law. I have no doubt that I can and will defend my home and marriage. She also has NO doubt that I will.
I have talked to a local police officer and he knows all information except for the guys name. He agrees I have every right! He knows I have printed out all the information from the phone bill. I have written down ALL of my wife's story and lame excuses. He said if all this gets out of control, he would get the phone company to produce ALL of the Texts and Photos! He will also place a restraining order on him.


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## Thundarr

firedog1 said:


> We live in a very small town, 2500. She works in a professional office. I am surprised it hasn't gotten around yet. He works out of town and just comes in once a month or so.
> I have heard someone knock on our bedroom outside wall in the early morning hours but, I never saw her get out of bed. I am a very light sleeper and would have seen her.
> I now sleep with a pistol near the bed and pack it with me when not working. I have told her, without a doubt, if I ever catch him near our home or near her, someone WILL die. I will shoot him like any other rabid dog!
> I live in a right to carry state and we also have the Castle Law. I have no doubt that I can and will defend my home and marriage. She also has NO doubt that I will.
> I have talked to a local police officer and he knows all information except for the guys name. He agrees I have every right! He knows I have printed out all the information from the phone bill. I have written down ALL of my wife's story and lame excuses. He said if all this gets out of control, he would get the phone company to produce ALL of the Texts and Photos! He will also place a restraining order on him.


You know it takes two to tango. Nothing can happen unless your wife allows it. With your approach, a small amount of bad judgment is the difference between handling the problem versus ruining your life. Plus this low life 25 year old is still someones son, sibling, father perhaps. It would be a shame for a little tail chasing to put him to dirt. Especially when your wife should be held accountable for her actions as well.


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## Sara8

alte Dame said:


> This sounds like many of the bizarre stories that we hear today about seemingly stable, upstanding women suddenly acting out sexually in shocking ways. (There was a report of a woman in her 80's who aggressively presented her 80+ yo husband with handcuffs one night; she'd been reading 'Fifty Shades' with her women's book club.)
> 
> With the advent of e-readers, many average, respectable women are essentially addicted to the soft porn of modern romance novels & some of them are acting out because it's encouraging them to think in ways that hadn't really occurred to them before, especially about sexuality and their own desires.
> 
> Confiscate her Kindle or Nook; clear out her electronic library; make her go cold turkey for a month. I'm 58 & usually told that I look young for my age, but 25 years old? That's not within any range of OK.


I agree. 

If you research sex compulsions and sex addictions you will find that viewing internet porn compulsively or even too often (like twice per week) changes the structure of the frontal lobes. 

It creates a condition similar to alzheimers in which the person may lose impulse control and act in ways that in the past would have been out of character for them. 

The studies say it is too easy to cross the line viewing porn on the internet.

People start out saying they will only watch softer porn than peek at more perverse porn and it escalates. 

Eventually they start viewing kiddie porn and get themselves in trouble with underage boys or girls 

It's really a growing problem.


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## aug

What are the consequences for your wife? Any at all?


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## turnera

firedog1 said:


> We live in a very small town, 2500. She works in a professional office. I am surprised it hasn't gotten around yet. He works out of town and just comes in once a month or so.
> I have heard someone knock on our bedroom outside wall in the early morning hours but, I never saw her get out of bed. I am a very light sleeper and would have seen her.
> I now sleep with a pistol near the bed and pack it with me when not working. I have told her, without a doubt, if I ever catch him near our home or near her, someone WILL die. I will shoot him like any other rabid dog!
> I live in a right to carry state and we also have the Castle Law. I have no doubt that I can and will defend my home and marriage. She also has NO doubt that I will.
> I have talked to a local police officer and he knows all information except for the guys name. He agrees I have every right! He knows I have printed out all the information from the phone bill. I have written down ALL of my wife's story and lame excuses. He said if all this gets out of control, he would get the phone company to produce ALL of the Texts and Photos! He will also place a restraining order on him.


Oh, yeah, cos it's all the guy's fault.

What's going on here is you are a beta and she's bored with you. And here you are, acting even MORE beta! 

She wants a real man. And you have stopped being that in her eyes. Threatening HIM isn't gonna do it, threatening to kick her ass out on the street will. She wants you to respect yourself and tell her NO MORE.


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## Thor

firedog1 said:


> I now sleep with a pistol near the bed and pack it with me when not working. I have told her, without a doubt, if I ever catch him near our home or near her, someone WILL die. I will shoot him like any other rabid dog!
> I live in a right to carry state and we also have the Castle Law. I have no doubt that I can and will defend my home and marriage.
> 
> 
> *I have talked to a local police officer* and he knows all information except for the guys name. *He agrees I have every right!*



Sigh. This is what gives gun owners a bad name.

First off, never ever go to a cop for legal advice about firearms laws. NEVER. Cops are not trained in the intricacies of the law, only on the circumstances which their supervisors thinks should result in an arrest. Cops arrest suspects and collect evidence.

Secondly, the Castle Doctrine only provides for you to not retreat in the face of _an existing threat which rises to the level authorizing you to use lethal force_. Read that again several times if you must. Castle Doctrine does not allow you to go hunt someone to shoot them. Castle Doctrine does not allow you to escalate a confrontation. All it does is say you don't have to retreat before using lethal force. Lethal force must already be authorized by the circumstances.

In most places the requirement is that you have a reasonable fear of grave bodily harm or death. In my state they specify the term "forcible felony" which is defined in the law. Your location will have similar _very specific_ requirements before you can use lethal force. Learn them now before you end up in prison forever.

Do you know that brandishing a weapon is considered use of lethal force? So are warning shots. So you can't wave your gun around or fire warning shots unless you would otherwise be able to shoot the guy.

I completely sympathize with your anger, but don't destroy your life for this young piece of sh1t or for your cheating wife. There is an old man and his wife who, if they are still alive, would not be if I knew who they are. They abused my wife as a grade school child. I know how dark your thoughts are right now, but just realize that you would be giving away your life for no good reason.

All of my guns were deactivated, disassembled, and locked away in pieces in multiple locations in the house when emotions started running amok here. You would be well advised to do the same. Or find a trusted friend to store your guns for you.


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## Chaparral

There is a good chance he is playing your wife. There is also a good chance he is passing her pictures around and posting them on the internet. Let her know that.


----------



## TDSC60

firedog1 said:


> *I have heard someone knock on our bedroom outside wall in the early morning hours but*, I never saw her get out of bed. I am a very light sleeper and would have seen her.
> 
> He said if all this gets out of control, he would get the phone company to produce ALL of the Texts and Photos! He will also place a restraining order on him.


Someone knocking on your bedroom wall in the middle of the night is something I would call out of hand already.

Tell your police officer friend to get those texts and photos ASAP. Tell him you need it before it gets violent.

You really do not know for sure who or what you may be dealing with. If it is OM outside your house in the middle of the night, it has gone much further than just texting or this guy is a psycho. Either way is not good for you.


----------



## Caribbean Man

chapparal said:


> There is a good chance he is playing your wife. There is also a good chance he is passing her pictures around and posting them on the internet. Let her know that.


Never even thought of that.
I wonder if she purchases gifts and stuff for him?


----------



## SomedayDig

Hmmm...not responding directly to commentary, just continuing to post escalating things happening...

OP - can you or will you at least respond to these last 4 pages of posts to you? I mean, you've got 3 posts. There are people here trying to help ya out.


----------



## Machiavelli

firedog1 said:


> She has lost a lot of weight lately and now looks like she did 28 years ago.


Big Red Flag. Did she have weight loss surgery or do it the hard way? It doesn't really matter as the end result is the same, but there are stats for the surgery that indicate 4 out of 5 marriages won't survive the wife's weight loss due to adultery.



firedog1 said:


> She has started reading all of the Grey's books and I think that is when it started.


This may just be the latest iteration of this behavior.



firedog1 said:


> As for me, I am 60 but, everyone thinks I am 50 or younger. I had a 5 way bypass 6 years ago. I have worked hard to get back into shape and am now 95 percent of what I was before. Flab is not the problem.


This is very good for you. You'll be in big demand among the 50 year old women after you are rid of your wife.



firedog1 said:


> She has not been interested in sex for many years. Every 2 months was more than enough for her.


Very typical, standard stuff. She didn't lose interest in sex, just lost interest in sex with you. You've been "beta-ized" in her mind over a long period of time. As you cater to her needs, she loses attraction and seeks for a "badboy" in her imagination. Now she has one in real life. There may be earlier affair(s) that were undetected by you, which seems to increase their contempt for the husband even more.

They've probably gotten together.

What did she say when you told her you were divorcing?


----------



## Mr Blunt

*Make your wife face your children about this*. The children will give her a lot more reason to stop this action. 

*If this woman will not listen to your children then you need to dump her*. This 25 year old man will dump her in a very short time, especially if he has to put up with any of her bad points or support her in amy way.

this man is having his ego strocked but he is not about to get real serious with a woman that is pushing 60 unless he is a real loser.

Dont consenterate on the man so much; it is your wife that can put a stop to this. There are lots of men that will do what he is doing as long as it cost them nothing. You canot shoot every man that does this kind of thing.

I know you want to protect your children but they are your best bet. Killing this man will not change your wife's ideas and will only make things worse and you may go to prison. That would not be protecting your chioldren from a whole bunch of extra drama and emotional turmoil *Letting your children know is a LOT better than killing the man.*

*Make your wife face up to her actions. Her children will have a huge impact on her.*


----------



## MattMatt

chapparal said:


> There is a good chance he is playing your wife. There is also a good chance he is passing her pictures around and posting them on the internet. Let her know that.


Use TinEye Reverse Image Search to search for matches with your wife's photo.


----------



## MattMatt

BTW, look at it from the POV of a 25 year-old man. 

An attractive woman with a good cleavage comes to you and says "my husband can't do it for me any more. You are so handsome, blah, blah, blah..."

He'd have to have a will of iron NOT to respond. Your wife is to blame for this happening.

The consequences should be on her, not him.


----------



## AlphaHalf

Hmmm I thought about that POV statement from a the 25 yr old. I remember getting hit on by older married women when I was 19 years old working at the supermarket. I was flattered but no way in hell did I accept. Why...because I was worried about getting my a$$ kicked or shot by the husband. Old timers when I was young did not play around. (at least in my neighborhood). Times are different now. (Facebook, cell phones, "40 is the new 20", Psychological excuses for every behavior or action committed.....on...and...on,,,and on... 
Bottom line don't [email protected]#k with another man's wife. Vice Versa for Women.


----------



## Entropy3000

AlphaHalf said:


> Hmmm I thought about that POV statement from a the 25 yr old. I remember getting hit on by older married women when I was 19 years old working at the supermarket. I was flattered but no way in hell did I accept. Why...because I was worried about getting my a$$ kicked or shot by the husband. Old timers when I was young did not play around. (at least in my neighborhood). Times are different now. (Facebook, cell phones, "40 is the new 20", Psychological excuses for every behavior or action committed.....on...and...on,,,and on...
> Bottom line don't [email protected]#k with another man's wife. Vice Versa for Women.


This is partly why I am so amazed at this new trend to just be ok with predators. Sure your spouse is accountable. But so is the guy trying to bang her. Any guy pursuing another man's wife should be afraid.


----------



## tonyarz

Now that I think about it, when I was 28 or 29 I met a woman on AOL that was around 50. She was married and she wanted to sleep with me badly. Well one day she came over in a skimpy tennis outfit and wanted to sleep with me. I couldn't resist. I didn't have any feelings for her though. So I guess it could happen.


----------



## Entropy3000

MattMatt said:


> BTW, look at it from the POV of a 25 year-old man.
> 
> An attractive woman with a good cleavage comes to you and says "my husband can't do it for me any more. You are so handsome, blah, blah, blah..."
> 
> He'd have to have a will of iron NOT to respond. Your wife is to blame for this happening.
> 
> The consequences should be on her, not him.


Why, because we are not capable of a complex thought? Like holding the wife repsonsible AND the OM?

Why has our species become so limited? Yes he needs to deal with his wife. But that does not mean he should not with the guy. 

Frankly if he finds the guy in his house he has every right to assume what ever he wants. I would.

But you can be sure I would hold my wife accountable.


----------



## Doc Who

While I understand fear, I cannot accept that people are so willing to hurt themselves by not exposing. I see it all the time in my profession. People do not want to know if they have cancer because having the doctor tell them they have a tumor makes it real. Somehow denial is preferable.

I hope the OP can push past the denial phase here and make this affair real for both himself and his wayward wife. EXPOSE.


----------



## Thundarr

Entropy3000 said:


> This is partly why I am so amazed at this new trend to just be ok with predators. Sure your spouse is accountable. But so is the guy trying to bang her. Any guy pursuing another man's wife should be afraid.


I agree. If my wife had an an EA or PA the OM better be afraid. whether physical or emotional I'd find for a way to make him suffer. These guys are playing russian roulette.

Now my wife on the other hand would have to be remorseful beyond belief and a strong woman to put up with the BS version of me. I tried R with my first wife years ago but she didn't deserve R and that was that. I don't think it's in me to deal with infidelity now.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Entropy3000 said:


> Why, because we are not capable of a complex thought? Like holding the wife repsonsible AND the OM?
> 
> *Why has our species become so limited? Yes he needs to deal with his wife. But that does not mean he should not with the guy. *
> 
> Frankly if he finds the guy in his house he has every right to assume what ever he wants. I would.
> 
> But you can be sure I would hold my wife accountable.


:iagree:

Seems to me that men who take principled stands are fast becoming an "endangered species " too.

Somebody needs to teach this nasty Philistine a lesson.
That 25 yr OM is a despicable piece of shyt.


----------



## firedog1

Sorry I can't be on here all of the time to answer your questions. I have to work for a living!
In my state, all he has to do is be on my property, near my car, or near my Wife or Family to get shot! I would not hesitate!
I got her phone, recovered the deleted photos, she told the truth about the photos. I check our phone calls and texts daily. I do not trust her and I may never trust her again. She is well aware of the steps I will take to insure this never happens again. 
I well know the LAWS covering this. I will exercise my rights to deal with HER and HIM.
I also retrieved the texts and have printed copies and gave her a copy to let her know that I KNOW EVERYTHING! I can and will use this in court if needed.


----------



## turnera

So what is SHE doing at this point?


----------



## Fvstringpicker

MattMatt said:


> Really? At age 25 if a hot looking 56-year-old had come on to me? I'd have been there like a flash.


If she don't have sex with him, it not her fault. I was about 9-10 years older than the "kid" but I used to service a couple of 50 year old ladies back when I did some minor escorting.


----------



## Thundarr

Fvstringpicker said:


> If she don't have sex with him, it not her fault. I was about 9-10 years older than the "kid" but I used to service a couple of 50 year old ladies back when I did some minor escorting.


Isn't there supposed to be a point somewhere in comments? "What not her fault?" I have no clue what you're telling OP or anyone else.


----------



## MattMatt

I was 28, she was 58.

I was absolutely besotted with her. 

It was a brief relationship, she decided to end her separation and give her marriage another try. Me? Well, though it hurt me to say it to her, I encouraged her to get back with her husband, if that was what she wanted. Last thing I heard, they were still together, and happy enough.

Funny the stuff that happens to you.


----------



## Machiavelli

Entropy3000 said:


> This is partly why I am so amazed at this new trend to just be ok with predators. Sure your spouse is accountable. But so is the guy trying to bang her. Any guy pursuing another man's wife should be afraid.


First dueling was banned, then the Paramour Law was repealed. Then alienation of affection laws went away. What do you expect when there are no legal courses of remedial action for the BH? No doubt these laws were repealed to protect the crooked, adulterous politicians themselves under the guise of "social progress."


----------



## Thor

Talk to a crimminal defense lawyer before you declare an absolute right to shoot an intruderon your property. Texas? Where ever. The major fact of his involvement with your wife could encourage a prosecutor and jury to believe he was lured by you or even legitimately invited (by your wife). You have motive to hurt him. 

Put aside $50k for a lawyer's retainer. You might be acquitted but you almost certainly will bde arrested and charged.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Fvstringpicker

Thundarr said:


> Isn't there supposed to be a point somewhere in comments? "What not her fault?" I have no clue what you're telling OP or anyone else.


It was tongue n cheek meaning if they don't have sex it would be because he turned her down. (she didn't do anything to prevent it)


----------



## firedog1

He was out of state for 2 weeks on vacation with his parents. I found out about it and confronted her while he was gone. She ended it the first week. The next Monday, while he was gone, she sent him a 3 page text. *(For closure) her words*


----------



## SomedayDig

FYI...if you plan on killing this guy, make sure you have a good lawyer cuz a little computer check will easily show pre-meditation.

Other than that...what's your plan?


----------



## turnera

So what are you doing to FIX your marriage so your wife no longer feels a need to look outside the marriage to get her needs met?


----------



## Wazza

With respect this is ludicrous.

If your marriage is so bad that you have to kill people to stop your wife from cheating, what have you got?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

Machiavelli said:


> First dueling was banned, then the Paramour Law was repealed. Then alienation of affection laws went away. What do you expect when there are no legal courses of remedial action for the BH? No doubt these laws were repealed to protect the crooked, adulterous politicians themselves under the guise of "social progress."


I am an honest man. I have respect for all living things. Above all else though I am a man of honor. Laws in general are a good thing to follow. It is respectful and right much of the time. Render unto Caesar what is Caesars. I am modern and I am ancient. A time for all things under heaven. One must search within their own self for what is right and just and live accordingly. I know what is in _my_ heart.

_If you take everything from me. I have nothing left to lose. Never do that to anyone and feel safe. -- Entropy3000_

_Ask yourself is the OM stealing my wife, my everything or is he just taking out the trash. -- Entropy3000_

_Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves -- Confucius_

_And therefore those skilled in war bring the enemy to the field of battle and are not brought there by him -- Sun Tzu
_
The predator has made this journey, this choice. They are the perpetrator. It is their dishonor. It is an imbalance in the universe that screams to be reconsiled. 

_The general who wins the battle makes many calculations in his temple before the battle is fought. The general who loses makes but few calculations beforehand. He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot will be victorious. __Put yourself beyond the possibility of defeat, and then wait for an opportunity of defeating the enemy.__ Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win. _ _-- Sun Tzu
_ 
Think things through. Let any action be at the time and place and manner and measure of _your_ choosing according to your available resources and degree of panache and sense of justice. _la vengeance se mange très-bien froide_

_To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy. What is of supreme importance in war is to attack the enemy's strategy. Speed is the essence of war. Take advantage of the enemy's unpreparedness; travel by unexpected routes and strike him where he has taken no precautions. The best victory is when the opponent surrenders of its own accord before there are any actual hostilities... It is best to win without fighting. For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill._ _Opportunities multiply as they are seized. __All warfare is based on deception._
_-- Sun Tzu
_
Understand the predator's strategies and tactics. Understand, Instigation, Isolation and Escalation. It will help one in the timing of the actions to interfere with the plans ... early on. It is better to put swift efforts into an effective ****bl0ck than to put the genie back in the bottle and seek scorched earth justice. So DO NOT WAIT UNTIL THINGS ARE VERY BAD BEFORE TAKING ACTION.

The best way to avoid actually climbing up on the pale horse is to have personal boundaries and values that enable one to deal with issues when they are relatively small. Appeasement will surely cause the most damage in the long run. So indeed deal with the WS sooner than later.
This is best for all concerned. It is compassinate, just, manly and honorable. 

Ka Mate HAKA

Ka mate, ka mate! ka ora! ka ora! Ka mate! ka mate! ka ora! ka ora!
Tēnei te tangata pūhuruhuru
Nāna nei i tiki mai whakawhiti te rā
Ā, upane! ka upane!
Ā, upane, ka upane, whiti te ra!

Silly little dance. Archaic? Perhaps. Somewhat tongue in cheek on my part here. But the spirit is essentially about being _all-in_. I may live or I may die. I have no fear. This is where I make my stand. This is my interpretation.

I believe that a man with modern sensibilities and skillz added to ancient wisdoms is the best prepared to survive. After all we are all a product of our environment and hereditiy so why would a blend of modern and ancient not make sense? YMMV.

Oh what was my point? Engage swiftly and decisively and scare the ever lovin crap out of the OM. Convince him you are all in and that nothing on earth will stop you from running him off and if need be destroying him even if it means your own destruction. Then mean it. This is not about threats. It is about taking action. It is about doing everything to blow up the affair or better yet stopping it before it gains momentum. BTW, nothing wrong with over reacting a little at the beginning. It will be noted.


----------



## Fvstringpicker

Wazza said:


> With respect this is ludicrous.
> 
> If your marriage is so bad that you have to kill people to stop your wife from cheating, what have you got?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I said it before, guys typically blame the other guy. No matter what you do to the OM however, it will never cause him to un-F your wife. Sorry mods, I've tried to be good. If you have to ditch me, let her rip.


----------



## Entropy3000

Caribbean Man said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Seems to me that men who take principled stands are fast becoming an "endangered species " too.
> 
> Somebody needs to teach this nasty Philistine a lesson.
> That 25 yr OM is a despicable piece of shyt.


The meek shall inherit the earth.


----------



## Entropy3000

firedog1 said:


> He was out of state for 2 weeks on vacation with his parents. I found out about it and confronted her while he was gone. She ended it the first week. The next Monday, while he was gone, she sent him a 3 page text. *(For closure) her words*


Where you went wrong here was that you did not undertsand the boundaries around going NC. NC means no contact other than an NC letter that is handled with the BS.

What you descibe is SOP.

Do you have the the three page text? 

It is also common for a WS to backslide. This is why it requires transparency.

So does she see him at church or any where else?


----------



## Thor

Entropy, I like your style. Sun Tzu applies to life in general in so many ways. Hoisting a cyber-beer in your direction in salute to your excellent post.

For OP, I am not saying you are wrong just that the law is against you. There are "clean shoot" situations but yours is not because of your wife's involvement.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thundarr

Entropy3000 said:


> Where you wnet wrong here was that you did not undertsand the boundaries around going NC. NC means no contact other than an NC letter that is handled with the BS.
> 
> What you descibe is SOP.
> 
> Do you have the the three page text?
> 
> It is also common for a WS to backslide. This is why it requires transparency.
> 
> So does she see him at church or any where else?


I don't know if you go to church with your wife FD but go and ask the congregation to pray for your wife and brother X for their transgressions and make sure it's known what they've done. Then it's exposed and any fog she has now will disappear.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Thundarr said:


> I don't know if you go to church with your wife FD but go and* ask the congregation to pray for your wife and brother X for their transgressions and make sure it's known what they've done. Then it's exposed and any fog she has now will disappear*.


:iagree:
I think this is a good suggestion.
Nobody could argue against that. After all the church must have some standard regarding matters such as this.


----------



## Entropy3000

Thor said:


> Entropy, I like your style. Sun Tzu applies to life in general in so many ways. Hoisting a cyber-beer in your direction in salute to your excellent post.
> 
> For OP, I am not saying you are wrong just that the law is against you. There are "clean shoot" situations but yours is not because of your wife's involvement.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, as many of us know we use the Art Of War by Sun Tzu in business. It does apply to so many things in life. Sun Tzu above all else is pragmatic. 

Of course this is my point here. The usage has nothing to do with violence. In fact it has everything to do with not getting to that point. Surely any BS is at war with the OM / OW. It is a serious matter and requires serious thought and refelction on ones boundaries and values. Run the poacher off. Sun Tzu says "Build a golden bridge of escape for your enemy."
By engaging early you offer that choice. This is honorable. But you do not wait until damage is done.


----------



## Thundarr

Entropy3000 said:


> Yes, as many of us know we use the Art Of War by Sun Tzu in business. It does apply to so many things in life. Sun Tzu above all else is pragmatic.
> 
> Of course this is my point here. The usage has nothing to do with violence. In fact it has everything to do with not getting to that point. Surely any BS is at war with the OM / OW. It is a serious matter and requires serious thought and refelction on ones boundaries and values. Run the poacher off. Sun Tzu says "Build a golden bridge of escape for your enemy."
> By engaging early you offer that choice. This is honorable. But you do not wait until damage is done.


Reason, logic, and core principles transcend single verticals of usage. Much in the art of war is truly the art of strategic thinking.


----------



## Entropy3000

Fvstringpicker said:


> I said it before, guys typically blame the other guy. No matter what you do to the OM however, it will never cause him to un-F your wife. Sorry mods, I've tried to be good. If you have to ditch me, let her rip.


I personally think you have a valid comment here even if I do not agree with it.

A person who perpetrates an offense being dealt with in a just way rarely undoes an offense.

A drunk driver who kills a family will never bring back that family.

A child molester who molests a child will never be able to undue what they did.

A rapist who rapes a woman can never undue what they did. 

A predator who destroys a family will never be able to undue that. It matters not that the wife was also culpable. There is plenty of blame to go around. It takes two in this case.

It is called accountability.


----------



## Thundarr

Entropy3000 said:


> I personally think you have a valid comment here even if I do not agree with it.
> 
> A person who perpetrates an offense being dealt with in a just way rarely undoes an offense.
> 
> A drunk driver who kills a family will never bring back that family.
> 
> A child molester who molests a child will never be able to undue what they did.
> 
> A rapist who rapes a woman can never undue what they did.
> 
> A predator who destroys a family will never be able to undue that. It matters not that the wife was also culpable. There is plenty of blame to go around. It takes two in this case.
> 
> It is called accountability.


I like these analogies. For these other offenses, punishment is used as a deterrent as well as time serves prevents offenses from being repeated while in jail anyway. If Joe stud nails some guy's wife and there's no danger or consequences then why what prevents him from doing it over and over.


----------



## Wazza

Thundarr said:


> I like these analogies. For these other offenses, punishment is used as a deterrent as well as time serves prevents offenses from being repeated while in jail anyway. If Joe stud nails some guy's wife and there's no danger or consequences then why what prevents him from doing it over and over.


Not defending cheating. Not at all. But what are you suggesting? Maybe make adultery punishable by stoning like it is under shariah law perhaps? We are participating in a thread where the OP has expressed the intent to shoot the affair partner should he return. Shooting, stoning....not much different.

If not those then what?

I understand the desire to punish but it won't work, and will lead to greater problems.


----------



## Thundarr

Wazza said:


> Not defending cheating. Not at all. But what are you suggesting? Maybe make adultery punishable by stoning like it is under shariah law perhaps? We are participating in a thread where the OP has expressed the intent to shoot the affair partner should he return. Shooting, stoning....not much different.
> 
> If not those then what?
> 
> I understand the desire to punish but it won't work, and will lead to greater problems.


Good point Wazza. *For the record I think it's crazy for anyone to throw away their life over something like this.*
I was voicing concern over the OPs bold statements a few pages back but I got sucked into the theoretical aspect of this rather than remembering that OP is a real person contemplating something that could backfire terribly. In the end though OP is responsible for his actions and the consequences they create.

And I'm not suggesting death, dismemberment but it would make me EXTREMELY happy to see singles who are knowingly screwing married people *get their arses beat* though. I also think any man messing with a married woman had better think about who she's could be married to.


----------



## Fvstringpicker

Entropy3000 said:


> I personally think you have a valid comment here even if I do not agree with it.
> 
> A predator who destroys a family will never be able to undue that. It matters not that the wife was also culpable. There is plenty of blame to go around. It takes two in this case.
> 
> It is called accountability.


My belief is that when the wife is lapping up this "kids" attention like a starving cat, its going to be a Pyrrhic victory for firedog to dole out some physical hostility against him. While firedog is doing time for assault and battery, his spouse may well be interviewing for new entertainment. The predator destroying a family may be the person you sleep with. His real problem is with her in my opinion.


----------



## Wazza

Thundarr said:


> Good point Wazza. *For the record I think it's crazy for anyone to throw away their life over something like this.*
> I was voicing concern over the OPs bold statements a few pages back but I got sucked into the theoretical aspect of this rather than remembering that OP is a real person contemplating something that could backfire terribly. In the end though OP is responsible for his actions and the consequences they create.
> 
> And I'm not suggesting death, dismemberment but it would make me EXTREMELY happy to see singles who are knowingly screwing married people *get their arses beat* though. I also think any man messing with a married woman had better think about who she's could be married to.


I believe in single, monogamous, till-the-death marriage and intend to live by those values. Totally with you there. 

I just don't think you can enforce it by punishment.

I could probably have cost my wife's affair partner his job, since he was one of her tutors at college, and there's an obvious conflict of interest if he's grading her assignments. So I've faced my moment of truth and been able to step back from revenge (though I did go so far as to have her write the letter that would have brought him down. I just didn't post it).


----------



## Thundarr

Wazza said:


> I believe in single, monogamous, till-the-death marriage and intend to live by those values. Totally with you there.
> 
> I just don't think you can enforce it by punishment.
> 
> I could probably have cost my wife's affair partner his job, since he was one of her tutors at college, and there's an obvious conflict of interest if he's grading her assignments. So I've faced my moment of truth and been able to step back from revenge (though I did go so far as to have her write the letter that would have brought him down. I just didn't post it).


You may be indirectly responsible for his future victims then. Why in the world would you not report his inappropriate use of his authority and then knowingly leave this guy to do it to someone else. That's messed up Wazza.


----------



## Wazza

Thundarr said:


> You may be indirectly responsible for his future victims then. Why in the world would you not report his inappropriate use of his authority and then knowingly leave this guy to do it to someone else. That's messed up Wazza.


I agree with you. If I had my time over again I would handle a lot of things differently. That's one of them.

At the time I was thinking of revenge and that is what I walked away from. I didn't really think through the issues in his professional ethics. Nor did I have any idea about affairs.


----------



## Kasler

Wayward wife must be laughing her ass off. 

It takes two to tango, and if anyone is at greater fault its her. He couldn't have fvcked unless she allowed him to. Yet all your doing here is going on and on about OM while wayward sits at home unpunished.

"I don't trust her" You think she gives a fvck? As long as you take no action shouldn't care less about you and your malicious plans for OMs demise.

You can blame for being around your home, but don't blame him because your wife was beside herself in her lust to spread her legs for him.

I agree with tunera on this one. Beta.


----------



## Thundarr

Wazza said:


> I agree with you. If I had my time over again I would handle a lot of things differently. That's one of them.
> 
> At the time I was thinking of revenge and that is what I walked away from. I didn't really think through the issues in his professional ethics. Nor did I have any idea about affairs.


It's good to learn from past mistakes and even better to own them. I expected you to take offense and have a "how dare you" response because other TAMERs do that to me sometimes. But instead you provide a humble, honest, response so I'm a fan Wazza

In regards to "if we had do-overs". I could have seen myself doing the same thing in the past, thinking I was being the better man, and then looking back on it and regretting it later.


----------



## shenox

as someone said here 25 years old person is not a boy. So don't consider this as a small thing. You may talk seriously about this and stop or file a divorce. I think you can solve this problem by talk without going for a divorce.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Thundarr said:


> *You may be indirectly responsible for his future victims then. * Why in the world would you not report his inappropriate use of his authority and then knowingly leave this guy to do it to someone else. That's messed up Wazza.


:iagree:

I agree with both you and Entropy.
If a persons is not held accountable for their actions, they simply continue along their destructive paths without any remorse or consideration for their victims whatsoever.
Somebody has to put an end to their madness.


----------



## Entropy3000

Thundarr said:


> I like these analogies. For these other offenses, punishment is used as a deterrent as well as time serves prevents offenses from being repeated while in jail anyway. If Joe stud nails some guy's wife and there's no danger or consequences then why what prevents him from doing it over and over.


And this is my point. The difference is that society is moving towards accepting predators for some reason.

I get that laws have changed. 

So it comes down to putting some cost to the carnage. There needs to be some cost. Otherwise it is just sport for these people.


----------



## Entropy3000

Wazza said:


> Not defending cheating. Not at all. But what are you suggesting? Maybe make adultery punishable by stoning like it is under shariah law perhaps? We are participating in a thread where the OP has expressed the intent to shoot the affair partner should he return. Shooting, stoning....not much different.
> 
> If not those then what?
> 
> I* understand the desire to punish but it won't work, and will lead to greater problems*.


Seriously? There is nothing anyone can think of?

Stoning or nothing?

Glad I am not that limited. 

How about exposure? People get all upset by exposure because it is vindictive. Why are folks so worried about taking actions against someone who is pruposely trying to do this?

What greater problem is there than this?

But this is why one does not wait to act. You act early on to shut things down.


----------



## Entropy3000

Fvstringpicker said:


> My belief is that when the wife is lapping up this "kids" attention like a starving cat, its going to be a Pyrrhic victory for firedog to dole out some physical hostility against him. While firedog is doing time for assault and battery, his spouse may well be interviewing for new entertainment. The predator destroying a family may be the person you sleep with. His real problem is with her in my opinion.


I am glad I do not have this limitation. No I would deal with predator number one harshly and discard this wife.

I know many of you are dealing with spouses who are serial cheaters. I am not talking about that. I am talking about a predator with a wife worth having.

I am flat just not a passive person in the important things in my life. I get that many people are. There are things worth fighting for.


----------



## Wazza

Entropy3000 said:


> Seriously? There is nothing anyone can think of?
> 
> Stoning or nothing?
> 
> Glad I am not that limited.
> 
> How about exposure? People get all upset by exposure because it is vindictive. Why are folks so worried about taking actions against someone who is pruposely trying to do this?
> 
> What greater problem is there than this?
> 
> But this is why one does not wait to act. You act early on to shut things down.


Read my posts again, in the context of what I was responding to. You have missed my point.


----------



## Entropy3000

Wazza said:


> Read my posts again, in the context of what I was responding to. You have missed my point.


I will. I apologize if I just knee jerked on this.

I agree that his approach is totally wrong. He needs to channel those feelings into positive actions.

But I am ok with vengeance.


----------



## Entropy3000

Thundarr said:


> Reason, logic, and core principles transcend single verticals of usage. Much in the art of war is truly the art of strategic thinking.


Nice


----------



## Entropy3000

Wazza said:


> I believe in single, monogamous, till-the-death marriage and intend to live by those values. Totally with you there.
> 
> I just don't think you can enforce it by punishment.
> 
> I could probably have cost my wife's affair partner his job, since he was one of her tutors at college, and there's an obvious conflict of interest if he's grading her assignments. So I've faced my moment of truth and been able to step back from revenge (though I did go so far as to have her write the letter that would have brought him down. I just didn't post it).


You made your choice and I will not berate you on this.

I would have exposed him to consequences. We all have our values.

I would have held him accountable. I would have held myself accountable as well. You can call it revenge, or vengeance or justice or maybe just the responsible and right thing to do. This is a personal choice and I respect that. I would still urge folks to do this. I think it is right.


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

Entropy3000 said:


> And this is my point. The difference is that society is moving towards accepting predators for some reason.
> 
> I get that laws have changed.
> 
> So it comes down to putting some cost to the carnage. There needs to be some cost. Otherwise it is just sport for these people.


Its the false compassion. Dont blame the waywards, theyre sick, they have mental problems. Blame the ow/om! 

Ridiculous
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## firedog1

The guys Dad is a Deacon of the Church and a close friend of mine. I am NOT trying to destroy EVERYONE! He has been away from home for 6 or 7 years working in the Oil field. His upbringing has faded considerably!
I made it plain to my Wife that it WILL NOT be tolerated. LAST chance. 
I said I would SHOOT the SOB and I mean it! He comes around My HOME, My FAMILY or My WIFE again HE IS RESPONSIBLE for the outcome!
As of this moment in time, we are trying to work through this. I have put 28 years into this and I WILL NOT make any rushed decisions. 
I will not be posting on this every 10 minutes just to Stir the crap up. I WILL try to update advancements or declines. Thanks for understanding.


----------



## Jonesey

firedog1 said:


> The guys Dad is a Deacon of the Church and a close friend of mine. I am NOT trying to destroy EVERYONE! He has been away from home for 6 or 7 years working in the Oil field. His upbringing has faded considerably!
> I made it plain to my Wife that it WILL NOT be tolerated. LAST chance.
> I said I would SHOOT the SOB and I mean it! He comes around My HOME, My FAMILY or My WIFE again HE IS RESPONSIBLE for the outcome!
> As of this moment in time, we are trying to work through this. I have put 28 years into this and I WILL NOT make any rushed decisions.
> I will not be posting on this every 10 minutes just to Stir the crap up. I WILL try to update advancements or declines. Thanks for understanding.


With all due respect. But you have taken this way to far man..
Please calm down.He aint worth it..


----------



## turnera

firedog1 said:


> The guys Dad is a Deacon of the Church and a close friend of mine.
> I said I would SHOOT the SOB and I mean it!


Do you want to know how to REALLY ABSOLUTELY give him a consequence he'll never forget?

Tell his dad and mom.


----------



## Wazza

Entropy3000 said:


> You made your choice and I will not berate you on this.
> 
> I would have exposed him to consequences. We all have our values.
> 
> I would have held him accountable. I would have held myself accountable as well. You can call it revenge, or vengeance or justice or maybe just the responsible and right thing to do. This is a personal choice and I respect that. I would still urge folks to do this. I think it is right.


As I looked at it then..revenge would have made me feel better, but I went that path and then realised it was all very negative. That was why I stopped.

As I look at it now....well revenge still seems hollow. Ethically, what he did was wrong on many levels, and as I have already admitted I would see it as right to report this as a matter of professional misconduct. On the other hand, the side effect of that might have been to invalidate my wife's study, which would have wrecked her career plans, impacting myself and my children. So it's just a mess.

Besides...she spend six months with him. I'm not stupid enough to think that it was all him, and for all I know she might have been the instigator.

All of which goes to show affairs are messy things.


----------



## Wazza

firedog1 said:


> The guys Dad is a Deacon of the Church and a close friend of mine. I am NOT trying to destroy EVERYONE! He has been away from home for 6 or 7 years working in the Oil field. His upbringing has faded considerably!
> I made it plain to my Wife that it WILL NOT be tolerated. LAST chance.
> I said I would SHOOT the SOB and I mean it! He comes around My HOME, My FAMILY or My WIFE again HE IS RESPONSIBLE for the outcome!
> As of this moment in time, we are trying to work through this. I have put 28 years into this and I WILL NOT make any rushed decisions.
> I will not be posting on this every 10 minutes just to Stir the crap up. I WILL try to update advancements or declines. Thanks for understanding.


Recognising the need not to destroy everyone is good.

What does God say about shotgun justice?


----------



## Thundarr

turnera said:


> Do you want to know how to REALLY ABSOLUTELY give him a consequence he'll never forget?
> 
> Tell his dad and mom.


Telling them does little. Telling the congregation will embarrasses them and that does something. Parents will sweep their children's in a heart beat. Let everyone know so he and your wife are embarrassed.


----------



## Entropy3000

Wazza said:


> As I looked at it then..revenge would have made me feel better, but I went that path and then realised it was all very negative. That was why I stopped.
> 
> As I look at it now....well revenge still seems hollow. Ethically, what he did was wrong on many levels, and as I have already admitted I would see it as right to report this as a matter of professional misconduct. On the other hand, the side effect of that might have been to invalidate my wife's study, which would have wrecked her career plans, impacting myself and my children. So it's just a mess.
> 
> Besides...she spend six months with him. *I'm not stupid enough to think that it was all him,* and for all I know she might have been the instigator.
> 
> All of which goes to show affairs are messy things.


Why does it have to ba all him? I keep seeing people saying that like one has to choose. Yes the wife is culpable. Some choose to reconsile with their wives. But you do not have to reconsile with the predator. 

But this was your choice and your reasoning. Fine. I have different values and different sense of right and wrong. I just do not believe in giving predators a free pass. But that is just me. 

It is ok we disagree here.


----------



## Entropy3000

CleanJerkSnatch said:


> Its the false compassion. Dont blame the waywards, theyre sick, they have mental problems. Blame the ow/om!
> 
> Ridiculous
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Is this a repsonse to my post?

Because I do not have this limitation that many have. For some reason people feel they need to blame one person or the other.

Holding both parties accountable is my view. 

You have never seen me suggest to let the WS off the hook. I don't get why many people want to let the AP off the hook. 

I would deal with the AP even if I let the WS go.

I realize some people do not blame the WS. I am not one of them. Also realize where I am coming from. As much as I hate to even think about it. I was the OM.


----------



## Thor

Wazza said:


> Not defending cheating. Not at all. But what are you suggesting? Maybe make adultery punishable by stoning like it is under shariah law perhaps? We are participating in a thread where the OP has expressed the intent to shoot the affair partner should he return. Shooting, stoning....not much different.
> 
> If not those then what?
> 
> I understand the desire to punish but it won't work, and will lead to greater problems.


I don't understand at all your statement that punishment won't work and that it will lead to greater problems.

Since we live in a heavy handed legal environment, I think there is no way to have approved beat downs. How can that be controlled from some central authority? If things were less legalistic, I would be all for the BS and a few buddies being able to apply a little "course correction" to the OM.

In the real world there are punishments which could accomplish both punishment and deterrence. Alienation of Affection lawsuits should be welcomed by the courts. In my state there is a law which allows for the lawsuits, but apparently the judges kill the suits in court and thus it is not a viable tool.

I would support some kind of criminal prosecution for knowingly being the affair partner with a married person. We prosecute all manner of victimless and technical foul types of crimes, yet there is no criminality for destroying a family? Ninety days mandatory jail time and a permanent criminal record would be deterrence. 

If Joe BusinessOwner stood to lose his business for screwing a married woman, he might think twice about pursuing married women. My wife's ex-bf is a known poacher of married women for the last 30+ years. He might turn his attentions to fewer married women if he did some jail time.

Another valid punishment aspect is the consideration of infidelity in the divorce settlement. No alimony for a cheater. No major share in the marital assets if you are the cheater. These kinds of punishments would first of all provide some relief to the victim BS, and secondly would provide deterrence to others.


----------



## AlphaHalf

If you won't divorce, then embarrass the S#!t out of both of them. Give his parents the copies of text messages. Keeping it secret only protects them. Show both of them consequences of there actions. 
If his father is a Deacon then he will/should eventually forgive. But keeping it secret will help enable the OM/WS to continue there ways in the future.(may not be with each other)

SHOOTING YOUR "CLOSE FRIEND" SON WILL REALLY DESTROY EVERYONE. Especially after they find out they didn't have a opportunity to stop it because YOU DIDN'T EXPOSE THEM.


----------



## The Middleman

AlphaHalf said:


> If you won't divorce, then embarrass the S#!t out of both of them. Give his parents the copies of text messages. Keeping it secret only protects them. Show both of them consequences of there actions.
> If his father is a Deacon then he will/should eventually forgive. But keeping it secret will help enable the OM/WS to continue


:iagree: You are so right! I would find a spot to post it on the internet and send everyone a link to it.


----------



## Wazza

Thor said:


> I don't understand at all your statement that punishment won't work and that it will lead to greater problems.
> 
> Since we live in a heavy handed legal environment, I think there is no way to have approved beat downs. How can that be controlled from some central authority? If things were less legalistic, I would be all for the BS and a few buddies being able to apply a little "course correction" to the OM.
> 
> In the real world there are punishments which could accomplish both punishment and deterrence. Alienation of Affection lawsuits should be welcomed by the courts. In my state there is a law which allows for the lawsuits, but apparently the judges kill the suits in court and thus it is not a viable tool.
> 
> I would support some kind of criminal prosecution for knowingly being the affair partner with a married person. We prosecute all manner of victimless and technical foul types of crimes, yet there is no criminality for destroying a family? Ninety days mandatory jail time and a permanent criminal record would be deterrence.
> 
> If Joe BusinessOwner stood to lose his business for screwing a married woman, he might think twice about pursuing married women. My wife's ex-bf is a known poacher of married women for the last 30+ years. He might turn his attentions to fewer married women if he did some jail time.
> 
> Another valid punishment aspect is the consideration of infidelity in the divorce settlement. No alimony for a cheater. No major share in the marital assets if you are the cheater. These kinds of punishments would first of all provide some relief to the victim BS, and secondly would provide deterrence to others.


Consideration of infidelity in divorce settlements I agree with. Not sure how to extend it to the AP. The burden of legal proof seems difficult.

I remain horrified at the OPs intent to shoot the OM.


----------



## Thor

Wazza said:


> Consideration of infidelity in divorce settlements I agree with. Not sure how to extend it to the AP. The burden of legal proof seems difficult.
> 
> I remain horrified at the OPs intent to shoot the OM.


If the AP knows the person is married, an Alienation of Affection lawsuit could extend financial penalties to him. Perhaps the cost of my divorce lawyer should be billed to him. Perhaps reimburse me for the half of the assets I lose. The incremental cost of having two households after the divorce instead of just one. Those would be real losses incurred in a divorce due to infidelity. If there were no divorce there would still probably be expenses such as marriage counseling, STD tests and treatment, cost of the PI or technology to discover the extent of the affair. Then there would be the emotional trauma endured by the BS whether or not there is a divorce.

Proving the affair is not difficult if there are photos. In a civil matter the burden of proof is "preponderance of evidence", which could be met by establishing patterns of text messaging, phone, or email frequency. Nobody texts one person hundreds or more times per month unless there is a very good reason. We're not talking about the death penalty, so I am comfortable with the current standards of civil law suits.


----------



## Wazza

Thor said:


> If the AP knows the person is married, an Alienation of Affection lawsuit could extend financial penalties to him. Perhaps the cost of my divorce lawyer should be billed to him. Perhaps reimburse me for the half of the assets I lose. The incremental cost of having two households after the divorce instead of just one. Those would be real losses incurred in a divorce due to infidelity. If there were no divorce there would still probably be expenses such as marriage counseling, STD tests and treatment, cost of the PI or technology to discover the extent of the affair. Then there would be the emotional trauma endured by the BS whether or not there is a divorce.
> 
> Proving the affair is not difficult if there are photos. In a civil matter the burden of proof is "preponderance of evidence", which could be met by establishing patterns of text messaging, phone, or email frequency. Nobody texts one person hundreds or more times per month unless there is a very good reason. We're not talking about the death penalty, so I am comfortable with the current standards of civil law suits.


How do you touch AP's assets when they are married without affecting their spouse?

How do you prove that they knew your wife was married?

Is it a valid defence to claim your spouse said you had an open relationship?

Just off the top of my head to illustrate potential complexity.


----------



## SomedayDig

The Middleman said:


> :iagree: You are so right! I would find a spot to post it on the internet and send everyone a link to it.


2 words.....

Free Blog.


----------



## MattMatt

SomedayDig said:


> 2 words.....
> 
> Free Blog.


I have seen some. They looked obsessive and very, very sad.


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

Entropy3000 said:


> I just do not believe in giving predators a free pass. But that is just me.
> 
> It is ok we disagree here.


Let the collateral damage be done.


----------



## Wazza

CleanJerkSnatch said:


> Let the collateral damage be done.


But is it that simple?

When my wife was studying, we were tight financially...we needed her to get qualified and employed so that we could afford to raise her children.

I let her continue study, the risk is she keeps seeing the OM and the affair continues. I blow things up, she gets disbarred from what she was studying, we face serious financial issues which affect our children as well (like at the time we were fighting not to lose our house).

And then blowing it up creates a gulf between the children and their mother, and exacerbates some already difficult relationships with in-laws.

It was a crap situation. Another reason why exposure may not be the best approach.

Sometimes when life throws you a sh1t sandwich, the best option is to eat it.


----------



## turnera

Wazza said:


> I remain horrified at the OPs intent to shoot the OM.


What gets me more is that he's so beta male that he won't stand up to his freakin' cheating wife, but he'll shoot a man?

How chicken IS that, if you're so freakin' scared of upsetting your woman that you're willing to instead do something to YOURSELF (and OM) like shooting a man.

If ANYONE needed to read No More Mr Nice Guy, it's the OP.


----------



## jfv

firedog1 said:


> The guys Dad is a Deacon of the Church and a close friend of mine. I am NOT trying to destroy EVERYONE! He has been away from home for 6 or 7 years working in the Oil field. His upbringing has faded considerably!
> I made it plain to my Wife that it WILL NOT be tolerated. LAST chance.
> * I said I would SHOOT the SOB and I mean it! He comes around My HOME, My FAMILY or My WIFE again HE IS RESPONSIBLE for the outcome!* As of this moment in time, we are trying to work through this. I have put 28 years into this and I WILL NOT make any rushed decisions.
> I will not be posting on this every 10 minutes just to Stir the crap up. I WILL try to update advancements or declines. Thanks for understanding.


I'm getting off this thread before I get subpoenaed! LOL
BTW, Tunera's post is spot on.


----------



## Wazza

turnera said:


> What gets me more is that he's so beta male that he won't stand up to his freakin' cheating wife, but he'll shoot a man?
> 
> How chicken IS that, if you're so freakin' scared of upsetting your woman that you're willing to instead do something to YOURSELF (and OM) like shooting a man.
> 
> If ANYONE needed to read No More Mr Nice Guy, it's the OP.


It could be all talk. I hope it is.


----------



## mrstj4sho88

tonyarz said:


> He probably makes her feel young again. I doubt they would have sex. That would be kind of creepy with him being so young.


She is just looking for some attention. You need to stop calling him a boy (25 yr old man).


----------



## Thundarr

Wazza said:


> But is it that simple?
> 
> When my wife was studying, we were tight financially...we needed her to get qualified and employed so that we could afford to raise her children.
> 
> I let her continue study, the risk is she keeps seeing the OM and the affair continues. I blow things up, she gets disbarred from what she was studying, we face serious financial issues which affect our children as well (like at the time we were fighting not to lose our house).
> 
> And then blowing it up creates a gulf between the children and their mother, and exacerbates some already difficult relationships with in-laws.
> 
> It was a crap situation. Another reason why exposure may not be the best approach.
> 
> Sometimes when life throws you a sh1t sandwich, the best option is to eat it.


Your case may have been unique wazza. Every scenario is different but the rule of thumb almost always applies. Exposure and NC are fundamentals OP and 99% of BS need to employ. Remorse and heavy lifting are fundamentals that OPs wife has to do if real R will happen.

Outside of these fundamentals, the odds are very slim that R is possible.


----------



## Thor

Wazza said:


> How do you touch AP's assets when they are married without affecting their spouse?
> 
> How do you prove that they knew your wife was married?
> 
> Is it a valid defence to claim your spouse said you had an open relationship?
> 
> Just off the top of my head to illustrate potential complexity.


1) If I don't shovel the snow off the front steps and the mailman breaks his neck slipping on the ice, it is my mistake. If I commit a fraud and get caught there could be a very large fine to be paid. It is my crime, yet my wife stands to lose financially. A spouse's negligent or intentional actions do attach to the innocent partner's finances in all other areas of the law. I don't have a problem with it in cases of infidelity.

Though I could see the wisdom of perhaps shielding the innocent spouse's half of the assets, and not attaching an future obligation to the innocent spouse's earnings.


2) It may not always be possible to prove the AP knew the person was married. But in many cases there would be emails, other communications, or circumstances which make it obvious. Just because some times it would not be possible to prove the AP knew doesn't mean the entire possibility of prosecuting the AP should be deleted. Should medical malpractice lawsuits be eliminated just because sometimes it cannot be proven that the doc failed?


3) I would say no, an open marriage is not a de facto acquittal. It might become an affirmative defense, where if the AP could prove in court the wife told him her marriage was open (i.e. the BS in fact gave permission for her to have sex with others), then the AP would be acquitted. But this would require strong evidence to prove the open marriage.

Statutory rape is a crime even when the girl claims she is of legal age. It is a crime even when she shows a driver license or other ID which shows her being of age, even if that ID is falsified. So it should be with affairs, it is a crime to be the AP even if the WS lies about their marriage status.

It may be difficult to prove some cases. That is why lawyers are consulted before filing the lawsuit, and why prosecutors evaluate the evidence before filing charges. Some cases will fail in court. True. But many cases could be proven in court, and the option should be there imo to both punish and deter APs.


----------



## Wazza

Thor said:


> 1) If I don't shovel the snow off the front steps and the mailman breaks his neck slipping on the ice, it is my mistake. If I commit a fraud and get caught there could be a very large fine to be paid. It is my crime, yet my wife stands to lose financially. A spouse's negligent or intentional actions do attach to the innocent partner's finances in all other areas of the law. I don't have a problem with it in cases of infidelity.
> 
> Though I could see the wisdom of perhaps shielding the innocent spouse's half of the assets, and not attaching an future obligation to the innocent spouse's earnings.
> 
> 
> 2) It may not always be possible to prove the AP knew the person was married. But in many cases there would be emails, other communications, or circumstances which make it obvious. Just because some times it would not be possible to prove the AP knew doesn't mean the entire possibility of prosecuting the AP should be deleted. Should medical malpractice lawsuits be eliminated just because sometimes it cannot be proven that the doc failed?
> 
> 
> 3) I would say no, an open marriage is not a de facto acquittal. It might become an affirmative defense, where if the AP could prove in court the wife told him her marriage was open (i.e. the BS in fact gave permission for her to have sex with others), then the AP would be acquitted. But this would require strong evidence to prove the open marriage.
> 
> Statutory rape is a crime even when the girl claims she is of legal age. It is a crime even when she shows a driver license or other ID which shows her being of age, even if that ID is falsified. So it should be with affairs, it is a crime to be the AP even if the WS lies about their marriage status.
> 
> It may be difficult to prove some cases. That is why lawyers are consulted before filing the lawsuit, and why prosecutors evaluate the evidence before filing charges. Some cases will fail in court. True. But many cases could be proven in court, and the option should be there imo to both punish and deter APs.


I think it's a minefield, since the legal system seems to me to be so thoroughly corrupted. If you are poor you cannot afford the legal system. If you are rich, you can afford for lawyers to play games with words to get the outcome you want even if it is totally unjust. I look at divorce, and without exception, those cases I've seen where the divorce got into protracted legal fighting, the only winners were the lawyers. 

I totally get the desire to enforce morality, and I share your disgust at players who go around destroying marriages so they can get their rocks off. I just don't think the legal system is a workable tool.

But I get where you are coming from.


----------



## Wazza

Thundarr said:


> Your case may have been unique wazza. Every scenario is different but the rule of thumb almost always applies. Exposure and NC are fundamentals OP and 99% of BS need to employ. Remorse and heavy lifting are fundamentals that OPs wife has to do if real R will happen.
> 
> Outside of these fundamentals, the odds are very slim that R is possible.


I've never seen reliable statistics on all this stuff. How can you prove your 99% number? (It's a genuine question, I would love to see statistics. Heck I'd love to know what percentage of marriages recover from infidelity. I suspect it's low.)

When my wife's affair happened, I had no resources other than figuring it out myself. No internet, no useful books, no one knowledgable to talk to. And that we made it had an element of dumb luck in it, so I don't claim any incredible wisdom.

So on your points, I try to think about the underlying principles, not just apply a recipe.

No contact is necessary so the spouse can get over the affair partner, and in my case it happened because my wife realised what she was doing was wrong, and ended contact without being asked. But we went for about six months with me demanding she stop seeing him socially and her refusing. If I had followed the TAM wisdom, I would have drawn a line, packed her bags and kicked her out. Maybe it would have ended the affair sooner, or maybe it would have ended the marriage. I don't know.

The point of exposure seems to be creating pressure on the WS to end the affair. I can see how selective exposure can be useful, but a scattergun explosion, no way. When my friends have marital issues, I don't take sides, because I don't assume I know enough, and it gets really awkward when someone tries to get you to take their side. In my wife's case, she was at a very low point emotionally. Exposing her could very easily have deepened the emotional crisis that caused her to have an affair.

I want my kids to love their mother. They know we had a rough patch in our marriage, but they don't know that it was an affair, or any of the details. If something happens between us, why ruin their lives as well?


----------



## chattycathy

Exposure simply reveals truth.

It isn't to 'do' anything other than to reveal facts to other people in the circle of community.

That the 25 year old is a peer of her child.....well......the adult offsprings need to know NOT to bring their buddies around mom who may start making moves on them. Exposing to them is giving them power to protect their own circle of support from more mess. (so it will help their lives potentially be less ruined overall)

YK?

I say, expose the truth. Tell it out in the open. It will allow others to know what you are going through and they can choose to be on your side to support you through this nightmare OR to be uninvolved and distance themselves OR to be slimey supporters of her cruelty to you.

You won't get to decide the outcome of exposure but it is still the right thing to do.


----------



## Entropy3000

CleanJerkSnatch said:


> Let the collateral damage be done.


Indeed. How about the collateral damage that is caused by folks just out to nail some married woman?

As I said let the journey be theirs. If they are the predator them they are the cause. 

Again, I am not a passive person. I do not turn the other cheek. I rip your head off.

Now indeed the way around me ripping your head off is for you to treat me in a decent way. Do not attack my family. Do not treat my wife as prey. Do not ake avantage of a situation. A car having the keys left in them my be irresponsible and tempting to some. That said if you jump in the car and start the engine and you get your head blown off blame no one but yourself. Do not blame the person who left the kesy in the car.

But all in all realize this IS the high road. To hold the affair secret is enabling the affair. In no way does this take responsibility off of the WS.


----------



## Entropy3000

Wazza said:


> But is it that simple?
> 
> When my wife was studying, we were tight financially...we needed her to get qualified and employed so that we could afford to raise her children.
> 
> I let her continue study, the risk is she keeps seeing the OM and the affair continues. I blow things up, she gets disbarred from what she was studying, we face serious financial issues which affect our children as well (like at the time we were fighting not to lose our house).
> 
> And then blowing it up creates a gulf between the children and their mother, and exacerbates some already difficult relationships with in-laws.
> 
> It was a crap situation. Another reason why exposure may not be the best approach.
> 
> Sometimes when life throws you a sh1t sandwich, the best option is to eat it.


To me there was only one clear way to move ahead. To blowup the affair no matter the rest. As all of this is, a personal choice. But to be held hostage by these collateral things seems like focus on the less important things. One has to consider the marraige to be the most important thing. if one desides that hacking off the inlaws is somehow important then fine. 

All of that collateral damage was on her. This the cost of the affair. Not blowing it up is enabling the affair.


----------



## Wazza

Thundarr said:


> Hmm. It was my way of saying NC and WS heavy lifting are fundamental rights "almost all of the time". I'm sure you know it's not a provable concept but I bet it's provable that "99% of councilors and trained professionals in the field will agree that NC and heavy lifting by the WS is the best chance for R.
> 
> 
> That seems like a great approach but I think it gets people into trouble unless they truly are resound to following logic and reason versus emotion. Reason being is that we are not very objective looking from the inside out. Emotions and insecurities often cloud our judgment.
> 
> 
> Again most literature on the subject and most trained professionals would tell you NC and heavy lifting by WS was your best chance of lasting R. Apparently conventional wisdom says that it's the best way to R and also prevent repeat offense. To me though it's common sense.
> 
> 
> Exposure, NC, 180 are all ways to wake WS up from the fog. They're hit with the reality of what the stand to lose in one hard shot and they have to re-evaluate all of their rationalization. Add to that the BS is portraying admirable traits like confidence, self respect, etc. Rather than deepening her emotional crisis it may have expedited her ability to start taking ownership in turn reducing her feeling of helplessness.
> 
> 
> Trust me. You don't have power to make your children stop loving their mother. Personally I think "protection from consequences" is a form of enabling and very damaging when applied to a spouse or children. Please hold your children accountable for their actions even though you may not hold your wife to hers. Enabling her might mean repeats but enabling them later on can cripple their chances in life.


A couple of clarifying comments that don't really change the thrust of my argument.

First - kicking her to the curb assumes that divorce is a good outcome. How willing you are to contemplate divorce influences how much you risk it. 

Second - I reject the notion that not exposing wide = enabling. There are other ways to communication consequences. 

Third - you don't have to make children hate a parent to mess up the relationship.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Entropy3000 said:


> Again, I am not a passive person. I do not turn the other cheek. I rip your head off.
> 
> Now indeed the way around me ripping your head off is for you to treat me in a decent way. * Do not attack my family. Do not treat my wife as prey. Do not ake avantage of a situation. * A car having the keys left in them my be irresponsible and tempting to some. That said if you jump in the car and start the engine and you get your head blown off blame no one but yourself. Do not blame the person who left the kesy in the car.
> 
> But all in all realize this IS the high road. To hold the affair secret is enabling the affair. In no way does this take responsibility off of the WS.


:iagree:

Its called SELF PRESERVATION.

Self-preservation is behavior that ensures the survival of an organism. It is universal among living organisms. Pain and fear are parts of this mechanism.
A man's wife and immediate family are an extension of himself.


----------



## Malaise

I can't understand how, for the most part, OM don't seem to fear the reaction of the BH. Self-preservation, at least , should kick in. 

Obviously the answer is that in modern times OM doesn't fear the retaliation of the BH, not as in days past or in some less 'civilzed' parts of the world.


----------



## Doc Who

I am not trying to threadjack this, but given that the OP seems gone and that we've moved onto a debate about exposure, I must strongly disagree with Wazza. Specifically 

****Second - I reject the notion that not exposing wide = enabling. There are other ways to communication consequences.****

There are many ways to communicate LOTS of things. But consequences are not communicated. They are understood/felt/suffered. If you really believe that a WS who is doped up on attention hits really understands the destruction that they wreak without feeling it themselves, then I submit that WS is a freak of nature. If they have such a high degree of emotional intelligence to really fathom consequences and, on-a-dime, turn the affair around without some negative consequence, then they probably would not engage in affair behavior in the first place.

I realize you chose not to expose because you were afraid your wife would lose her training and future income. Yes, that was your choice. But it was also YOUR fear. You very well know that your wife could have sought other training/education/work. But you instead took the way you thought was easiest for you and her. Glad it worked for you.

But you have to understand, IT DOESN'T FOR MOST PEOPLE. Holding onto the dirty little affair secrets because we as BS are frightened, is horrific for most of us. It makes us complicit in the affair, it makes us question our sanity, it means we give into the fear of losing our waywards, and it empowers the waywards to keep the relationship in a state of infidelity.

Exposure should not be vindictive, but it MUST be the first option of the betrayed. I believe a very wise man many years ago that many people follow today said "The truth shall set you free."

If that means her kids will hate her - WELL SHE CHOSE TO HAVE AN AFFAIR WITH A 25 YEAR OLD BOY. If you make it the BS's responsibility to coddle, protect, and LIE (yes, LIE) for the WS, then marriage as an institution is doomed.

You can argue until the cows come home that the BS has to take every approach other than exposure because that is what you did. But your projection does not mean in any way, shape, or form that your approach is a healthy or healing one. It simply piles bull**** over the gaping wound of the marriage. You may no longer see the wound, but it is not better.


----------



## Thor

Wazza said:


> I totally get the desire to enforce morality, and I share your disgust at players who go around destroying marriages so they can get their rocks off. I just don't think the legal system is a workable tool.
> 
> But I get where you are coming from.


If the legal system is not a viable solution to protect citizens who have been harmed, we should be able to use self-remedy solutions. Seriously. If the legal system is going to turn a blind eye to the intentional infliction of harm, the victims have the right to defend their families, their labors (think alimony...), and their honor using whatever method is necessary in their own judgment.

As we became a civilized nation of laws, the legal system took away our self-remedy solutions in favor of legal solutions. Seems reasonable. But now the legal system has abdicated its role.


----------



## Wazza

Doc Who said:


> I am not trying to threadjack this, but given that the OP seems gone and that we've moved onto a debate about exposure, I must strongly disagree with Wazza. Specifically
> 
> ****Second - I reject the notion that not exposing wide = enabling. There are other ways to communication consequences.****
> 
> There are many ways to communicate LOTS of things. But consequences are not communicated. They are understood/felt/suffered. If you really believe that a WS who is doped up on attention hits really understands the destruction that they wreak without feeling it themselves, then I submit that WS is a freak of nature. If they have such a high degree of emotional intelligence to really fathom consequences and, on-a-dime, turn the affair around without some negative consequence, then they probably would not engage in affair behavior in the first place.
> 
> I realize you chose not to expose because you were afraid your wife would lose her training and future income. Yes, that was your choice. But it was also YOUR fear. You very well know that your wife could have sought other training/education/work. But you instead took the way you thought was easiest for you and her. Glad it worked for you.
> 
> But you have to understand, IT DOESN'T FOR MOST PEOPLE. Holding onto the dirty little affair secrets because we as BS are frightened, is horrific for most of us. It makes us complicit in the affair, it makes us question our sanity, it means we give into the fear of losing our waywards, and it empowers the waywards to keep the relationship in a state of infidelity.
> 
> Exposure should not be vindictive, but it MUST be the first option of the betrayed. I believe a very wise man many years ago that many people follow today said "The truth shall set you free."
> 
> If that means her kids will hate her - WELL SHE CHOSE TO HAVE AN AFFAIR WITH A 25 YEAR OLD BOY. If you make it the BS's responsibility to coddle, protect, and LIE (yes, LIE) for the WS, then marriage as an institution is doomed.
> 
> You can argue until the cows come home that the BS has to take every approach other than exposure because that is what you did. But your projection does not mean in any way, shape, or form that your approach is a healthy or healing one. It simply piles bull**** over the gaping wound of the marriage. You may no longer see the wound, but it is not better.


Doc, I post to provide a counter viewpoint. It's ok for us to disagree.

There seems to be one indisputable fact. And that fact is that there are NO numbers proving that exposure is better than non exposure. Therefore neither of us has a factual basis to say any approach is best most of the time. If you disagree, point me to the materials. 

Now, you have misread the specifics of my circumstances. I did not sit there in fear, not exposing.

I "exposed" to her parents to ask them to support her, at a time when I thought the marriage was gone.

I "exposed" to some friends whose support I sought. Some were supportive, others were uncomfortable and avoided taking sides, some ceased to be friends. As far as I'm aware, none of them did anything to try and save the marriage.

I did not "expose" the OM at his work, where it could have had consequences for him because he had a professional relationship with my wife that was a clear conflict of interest. I didn't do that because my only motivation would have been revenge. If I had my time over I would probably have exposed to avoid him repeating his behaviour. But it was nothing to do with fear. The impacts on my wife had I exposed are considerations I put forward here as a counter argument, not factors in my original decision.

This is my circumstance. I have spoken to others who exposed and felt all it achieved was cost them friendships. 

I think in some cases it is good strategy. Just not always.

We are free to disagree.


----------



## Wazza

Thor said:


> If the legal system is not a viable solution to protect citizens who have been harmed, we should be able to use self-remedy solutions. Seriously. If the legal system is going to turn a blind eye to the intentional infliction of harm, the victims have the right to defend their families, their labors (think alimony...), and their honor using whatever method is necessary in their own judgment.
> 
> As we became a civilized nation of laws, the legal system took away our self-remedy solutions in favor of legal solutions. Seems reasonable. But now the legal system has abdicated its role.


That is an issue in all sorts of areas.


----------



## Entropy3000

[


Malaise said:


> I can't understand how, for the most part, OM don't seem to fear the reaction of the BH. Self-preservation, at least , should kick in.
> 
> Obviously the answer is that in modern times OM doesn't fear the retaliation of the BH, not as in days past or in some less 'civilzed' parts of the world.


All OMs are not created equal. Some are just guys who think they are in love. Indeed they are in an EA. Maybe they were a close friend of the woman and she has convinced the guy that her marriage is bad and so on. Is he an idiot? Sure. Should he have his butt kicked? Absolutely. They are very dangerous to the marriage. But this is just one type. This OM is a predator of course but he is an amateur.

Now on the other end of the spectrum, the predator. The predator is all about the conquest. It is sport. Humiliating the husband by taking his woman. This is a indeed a low life. BUT this low life is very selfish. THIS is the OM who will first respond to a challenge by trying to nail the wife even more BUT, this person will act out of fear and will act in their own selfish interest. They will drop the woman and move onto the ext conquest if it starts to cost him. After there is an endless supply of targets for him. No point in wasitng his energies if it is going to get tough.

But IMO many husbands are just too darn nice about this stuff. Naive maybe. Misguided for sure.

I thik you take a two pronged attack. You run off the poacher as the affair must end before you can work on the marriage. Just like he isolated the BS the BS must isolate him. One way to isolate him is to cause him great stress and pain. The affair must cost him. Afterall it is costing the BS everything.


----------



## firedog1

I have NOT abandoned the post. I read every day. I just have not read much in the last few days that warranted a comment. 
Just to be clear. I do not intend to blow the SOB away and not looking for an excuse. He has already given me a reason. IF he gets stupid enough to push me, it is HIS decision! I WILL NOT BE RESPONSIBLE for His decision. HE HAS BEEN WARNED and PROMISED!
We are trying to work through this and if that upsets you then you are on the WRONG website! I came on here to get support and try NOT to screw this up. 
I have been through a lot worse, in a previous marriage and may have given up too easily. I will not give up easily this time. 
I am partly to blame for what has happened and am smart enough to know that.


----------



## turnera

So, what exactly are you and your wife doing at this point? I'm a bit confused.


----------



## Thorburn

Hang in there firedog. Hoping for the best for ya.


----------



## aug

What are the consequences for her? She's 56. Shouldnt she be old enough to have consequences?


----------



## Danielfom

^

Well for him killing a man is easier than dealing with the real adulterer and the real problem. His wife of 28 years who chucked the marriage like a bad habit. 

^ Thats who he should be focusing his actions on.


----------



## mrstj4sho88

The w has found her a boy toy .


----------



## MattMatt

It is possible the OM is infatuated with the WW. I have been there. When I was 28 I had a similar thing happen with a woman of 58. She was separated from her husband, and she was the most beautiful woman I had even seen. 

She decided to give her marriage another try, so, with heavy heart, I bowed out and wished her well with trying to get back with her husband. And I am glad I did, as last time I heard, they were still together.


----------



## Danielfom

^ Getting involved with a married/separated man/woman is always a can of worms.


----------



## mrstj4sho88

MattMatt said:


> It is possible the OM is infatuated with the WW. I have been there. When I was 28 I had a similar thing happen with a woman of 58. She was separated from her husband, and she was the most beautiful woman I had even seen.
> 
> She decided to give her marriage another try, so, with heavy heart, I bowed out and wished her well with trying to get back with her husband. And I am glad I did, as last time I heard, they were still together.


Unless the H can give her the same time,attention and sex she will not give OM up. That OM is her boy toy (young and always ready).


----------



## mrstj4sho88

firedog1 said:


> I am partly to blame for what has happened and am smart enough to know that.


You are making excuses for your W. She made a choice to cheat with the Man not boy. If you keep making excuses, she will not stop cheating on you. She will just get better at hiding it. This OM can end the A. But your W will only find another Man.


----------



## mrstj4sho88

You should handle your W. You don't threaten the OM ( the boy) . You have called the OM a boy. How can you repair your marriage with threats? If your W tells OM it's over, he will leave her alone. If you bully your W, she will keep going to the OM. She has to want to end it (not you).


----------



## mrstj4sho88

turnera said:


> What gets me more is that he's so beta male that he won't stand up to his freakin' cheating wife, but he'll shoot a man?
> 
> How chicken IS that, if you're so freakin' scared of upsetting your woman that you're willing to instead do something to YOURSELF (and OM) like shooting a man.
> 
> If ANYONE needed to read No More Mr Nice Guy, it's the OP.


What gets me is that the OP does not see the 25 year old as a man. The OM might be a hard act to follow now. The OM young and in shape was sleeping with the W. That OM might have made it hard for the W to let go. It sound like OM was putting in work (putting it on her ).


----------



## MattMatt

mrstj4sho88 said:


> Unless the H can give her the same time,attention and sex she will not give OM up. That OM is her boy toy (young and always ready).


We never did get to fully consummate the relationship. And her husband had left home. So sometimes it is not sex, it is just finding someone who just talks to you, not at you, etc.


----------



## mrstj4sho88

MattMatt said:


> We never did get to fully consummate the relationship. And her husband had left home. So sometimes it is not sex, it is just finding someone who just talks to you, not at you, etc.


True that is why I said time and attention too. :iagree:


----------



## firedog1

2 weeks ago, I found where he had sent a friend request to my wife on Facebook. I lost it then and unloaded on him. I told him to stay away from my wife and used lots of 4 letter words. I told him he was stupid for trying to friend her because everyone could see this including his parents and my kids. I would not ever let him rest if this got around and to stay the F___ away. 
He sent me a reply and said it was not him. He was the victim in this, that it was all her. She was the one texting, sending pictures and following him around. He said SHE is the predator and he never wanted anything to do with her. She is a stalker and I need to take care of her. He did not appreciate my disrespecting him with my language! Really a Dumbass!
I told him that I have copies of the texts and the 3 nude pictures he sent her. I also have a copy of the picture she sent him, cleavage only. I told him I have no respect for him and I would continue to use whatever language I wanted with him. The only reason I haven't kicked his ass was his parents but, If he ever tried anything again I would go straight to his parents and the church. He is NOT the innocent one. He was just as guilty as her. He needs to look over his shoulder from now on. I told him that I have filed a police report and I would follow through with it if he causes any problems. 
I showed his note to my wife and she was really upset that he blamed all of it on her. She thought he really cared for her. DUMBASS! He cares for only what he can get from her. She now swears she hates his guts and will never try anything like this again. I said I will never trust her again and will not stop double checking EVERYTHING! 
If I ever find anything again, I will divorce her and not look back!


----------



## Chaparral

Way to go, props to you. Too few around here stand up to the affair partner.


----------



## turnera

Good job.


----------



## Mario Kempes

Yes, well done, Firedog. I like your style.


----------



## Acabado

Well done!


----------



## tonyarz

He probably just wanted sex and she wanted the companionship. I could see how he thinks he is the victim in all of this. But it's really both of their faults.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Finally a man with some real , steel cojones!


----------



## Mr Blunt

> I showed his note to my wife and she was really upset that he blamed all of it on her. She thought he really cared for her.


I am amazed at how someone would think that a person 31 years younger than them would really be interested in them in a marriage way.

What normal man at 25 would want a 56 year old cheating woman that has a husband and children? It is disgusting!


----------



## Kasler

I'm in my mid-late twenties and I could never fathom dating an old woman 30+ yrs my senior. 

Sounds nasty, even without the cheating aspect to be perfectly honest.


----------



## fishfast41

thats the way to handle it,firedog I like that.


----------



## mrstj4sho88

*At this point you have done a great job. OP has a W that is 56 years old. I know a few 56 year old women that look like they are ten years younger. I would think the W is very pretty and does look younger. Anyway OP you stay close with this issue. You have told him to stay away now. I think the OM just likes to bang women . It does not matter about age for him. I am wishing you goodluck with this issue. *


----------



## mrstj4sho88

MattMatt said:


> We never did get to fully consummate the relationship. And her husband had left home. So sometimes it is not sex, it is just finding someone who just talks to you, not at you, etc.



*Your're right emotional connects can be dangerous to.*


----------



## MattMatt

Mr Blunt said:


> I am amazed at how someone would think that a person 31 years younger than them would really be interested in them in a marriage way.
> 
> What normal man at 25 would want a 56 year old cheating woman that has a husband and children? It is disgusting!


Now, before you get all moralising, and shouting "disgusting" when I was 28 I fell very heavily in love with a woman who was 58.

To me she was the most beautiful woman I had ever seen. As I have explained, it never went anywhere, but I still remember her fondly.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> Originally Posted by Mr Blunt
> I am amazed at how someone would think that a person 31 years younger than them would really be interested in them in a marriage way.
> 
> What normal man at 25 would want a 56 year old cheating woman that has a husband and children? It is disgusting!
> 
> 
> By Matt
> Now, before you get all moralising, and shouting "disgusting" when I was 28 I fell very heavily in love with a woman who was 58.
> 
> To me she was the most beautiful woman I had ever seen. As I have explained, it never went anywhere, but I still remember her fondly.


So Matt here is the question that tells the real story

How did your “…very heavenly in love” with a woman 30 year older than you work out for you and her?

*Your relationship “never went anywhere” and neither will this woman’s relationship with the 25 year old.*

Just because you got involved with a woman 30 years older than you and want to discredit my post does not change the fact that your relationship was a failure and so will this woman’s relationship fail

The point of my post was that anyone that cheats on their faithful spouse and their children with a person 31 years younger than they are is disgusting!

*Why don’t you ask Firedog1 if he thinks if it disgusting or not.*


----------



## Wazza

Mr Blunt said:


> So Matt here is the question that tells the real story
> 
> How did your “…very heavenly in love” with a woman 30 year older than you work out for you and her?
> 
> *Your relationship “never went anywhere” and neither will this woman’s relationship with the 25 year old.*
> 
> Just because you got involved with a woman 30 years older than you and want to discredit my post does not change the fact that your relationship was a failure and so will this woman’s relationship fail
> 
> The point of my post was that anyone that cheats on their faithful spouse and their children with a person 31 years younger than they are is disgusting!
> 
> *Why don’t you ask Firedog1 if he thinks if it disgusting or not.*


Cheating is disgusting. I don't care if they were born 30 years apart or 30 seconds apart. I think Firedog would still be upset if the OM was his age.


----------



## MattMatt

Mr Blunt said:


> So Matt here is the question that tells the real story
> 
> How did your “…very heavenly in love” with a woman 30 year older than you work out for you and her?
> 
> *Your relationship “never went anywhere” and neither will this woman’s relationship with the 25 year old.*
> 
> Just because you got involved with a woman 30 years older than you and want to discredit my post does not change the fact that your relationship was a failure and so will this woman’s relationship fail
> 
> The point of my post was that anyone that cheats on their faithful spouse and their children with a person 31 years younger than they are is disgusting!
> 
> *Why don’t you ask Firedog1 if he thinks if it disgusting or not.*


You seem to have confused two issues.

1) It is disgusting for people to have a 31 year age gap in their relationship.

2) It is disgusting for people to have an affair with a 31 year age gap.

1) is not true. 2) is partially true, because it is arguable that *any* affair no matter what the age gap is disgusting.

Firedog1's wife would have been equally guilty if she had had an affair with a man of her own age.

And do not try to set me up for a fight with Firedog1. The poor fellow is upset enough without other people adding to his misery.


----------



## MattMatt

Wazza said:


> Cheating is disgusting. I don't care if they were born 30 years apart or 30 seconds apart. I think Firedog would still be upset if the OM was his age.


:iagree:


----------



## firedog1

Last night I told my Wife she has until Jan. 1 to decide to be a WIFE again or I am OUT! I am making arrangements to buy a mobile home to put on the lot next door, that I own.
She got upset that I am still checking up on her. I told her to just deal with it. She created this Crap, not me!


----------



## Wazza

firedog1 said:


> Last night I told my Wife she has until Jan. 1 to decide to be a WIFE again or I am OUT! I am making arrangements to buy a mobile home to put on the lot next door, that I own.
> She got upset that I am still checking up on her. I told her to just deal with it. She created this Crap, not me!


What is she doing? Still cheating, or just sulking?


----------



## turnera

I would give her more specific 'instructions,' if I were you. You're just setting yourself up for another pointless argument that no one wins.


----------



## The Middleman

Why are you giving her that much time. If she can't make that choice in 60 seconds, you know exactly what the result is going to be.


----------



## TDSC60

firedog1 said:


> Last night I told my Wife she has until Jan. 1 to decide to be a WIFE again or I am OUT! I am making arrangements to buy a mobile home to put on the lot next door, that I own.
> She got upset that I am still checking up on her. I told her to just deal with it. She created this Crap, not me!


In one of your last posts he had just thrown her under bus and was blaming her for being the one doing the chasing. She said she now (then) hated his guts.

This was little over a month ago.

Has she started up again?


----------



## Caribbean Man

The Middleman said:


> Why are you giving her that much time. If she can't make that choice in 60 seconds, you know exactly what the result is going to be.


:iagree:

At this point I think he needs to be a lot more firm and decisive.
His wife would be able to spot any " weaknesses" in his approach,and cold prolong everything.
He will appear weak and accommodating .


----------



## Kasler

You need to be much more firm. why jan 1st? 

Dec 1st. 

Hell even February 27th. 

When it comes to marriage you're either in or your out. Those who fence sit are for the most part out, they just don't know it yet. 

You deal with your wife too passively. 

As if shes going to take your 1+ month deadline seriously, don't kid yourself.


----------



## The Cro-Magnon

firedog1 said:


> Last night I told my Wife she has until Jan. 1 to decide to be a WIFE again or I am OUT! I am making arrangements to buy a mobile home to put on the lot next door, that I own.
> She got upset that I am still checking up on her. I told her to just deal with it. She created this Crap, not me!


WTF? What is with the Jan 1 deadline? That is weak IMO.

The deadline should have been for the very same day. 

She'll just spend the next few months doing whatever she wants now, thinking she is free up until "Jan 1".


----------



## The Middleman

I think it's Jan 1 because the OP realized that he can't control this situation or his wife's behavior. On Jan 1 he will either have to push the date out again or actually leave her. (Did he say move next door?). I'm curious as to why he hasn't told us what is going on now and just gave the one blurb.


----------



## Shamwow

Okay...it can certainly take a few tries to get enough momentum to leave and detach. But gotta ask, even if she says no and you leave her, how you can be "out" if you're setting up shop 50 feet away from her in the next lot? Sorry, but either you plan to continue to leave the door open for her or you don't. Sell your lot next door and grab another elsewhere. She almost certainly will say "I'm still confused" when Jan 1st rolls around...the question is will you accept that and roll the date further back, or will you say "Sorry, W of many years, but I can't accept that. I asked for a simple answer and you can't even give me that after plenty of time. I'll be leaving tonight."

Meantime, are you getting along in any way? Or is it limbo hell? Good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## old_soldier

I took 10 days, that was the length of time my lawyer took to get the paperwork together and the realator to put the house on the market. Then 1 yr of seperation, because that's what it takes here, divorce came fast and furious after that.


----------



## firedog1

Wazza said:


> What is she doing? Still cheating, or just sulking?


She is basically just acting like we are just roommates. She is sleeping in our room and I am in another room. 
The reason I gave her until Jan.1 is to get through Christmas, so I can enjoy the time with my 4 kids and 6 Grandkids. After that time, I just don't really give a damn.
The reason for the move next door is so she will have to see me there and know it is her fault, every day!:lol:

I also told her I want to be treated just like she treated me while she was having her EA, without her lover. Best treatment in our 28 years. We went places together as a couple, laughed, held hands, sit close together, she acted like she really cared and wanted to make me happy. People even commented on how much in love we seemed to be after all the years. They were actually jealous! (Wish I could figure this part out.)


----------



## firedog1

When I got home from work today she had listed all of the financial things and decided she doesnt want to work things out. I will be moving out soon and getting on with my life!
She says there is no one else and just wants her freedom. I really believe her. I also believe we have a president that really cares about America. RIGHT!


----------



## Numbersixxx

firedog1 said:


> When I got home from work today she had listed all of the financial things and decided she doesnt want to work things out. I will be moving out soon and getting on with my life!
> She says there is no one else and just wants her freedom. I really believe her. I also believe we have a president that really cares about America. RIGHT!


Well, in the meantime you can enjoy YOUR freedom. Good luck. Expose the OM.

EDIT: listen to the others and don't move out.


----------



## 3putt

UHHH, why are you leaving your home while she is the one leaving your marriage? Tell her if this is what she truly wants, then she can move HER ass out. Don't leave your home!

Don't make it easy on her. Make her do the work.


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## MattMatt

3putt said:


> UHHH, why are you leaving your home while she is the one leaving your marriage? Tell her if this is what she truly wants, then she can move HER ass out. Don't leave your home!
> 
> Don't make it easy on her. Make her do the work.


:iagree:


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## Acabado

Don't move out without talking to a lawyer!


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## Kasler

Shoulda kicked her ass out day one, saw this one coming miles away. 

Also why are you moving out? She wants 'freedom'? she leaves.


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## Shaggy

Do not move out of your house.

Cut her off financially, and tell her to get out.


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## Chaparral

Anyone have that link that shows the stats for remarriage? She has a better chance than a snowball in hell of getting remarried, but not much more.


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## firedog1

Update! I am still here! We worked things out for a while and it was fantastic. We took a long weekend, went to another town and screwed our brains out. Everything was wonderful until... 
Our youngest Daughter asked her if she was really serious about us getting things right and was she really going to be a wife? She told her NO, I am just trying to get him to stay long enough to get things worked out financially. Then I will file for divorce! I want my freedom to enjoy my life. Daughter made her tell me the truth. 
I agreed to stay until we got money problems worked out and some major repairs done on the house. Then we will sell the house and she can go to hell! Six months later, I am still living in the back of the house and she in the front. 
Today is our 30th anniversary. She chose to spend the weekend at the lake with our daughter and was supposed to be back this afternoon. At 8:00 PM she had daughter send me a text to say she would be spending another night at the lake. She will see me at noon tomorrow because we are supposed to have lunch with friends from church. She expects me to be there!
I am going to another town 150 miles away to visit my brother in the hospital. I will send her a text sometime tomorrow! MAYBE!!!
I posted a very nice note on her Facebook page. It said Happy 30th Anniversary, Darling! I really DO NOT deserve the LOVE and RESPECT you have shown me in the last year! Hope your day was as WONDERFUL as you have made mine! :rofl:


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## bandit.45

Quit talking to her. Be done with her. 

It's funny, the stupid woman thinks she has so many options going forward. She'll think that in about 15 years when she's living on Alpo and government cheese and her kids want nothing to do with her. 

No worse kind of skank than an old skank.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Uh, have you even READ No More Mr Nice Guy? You sure don't act like it.


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## manfromlamancha

firedog1 said:


> Update! I am still here! We worked things out for a while and it was fantastic. We took a long weekend, *went to another town and screwed our brains out. *Everything was wonderful until...
> Our youngest Daughter asked her if she was really serious about us getting things right and was she really going to be a wife? She told her NO, I am *just trying to get him to stay long enough to get things worked out financially*. Then I will file for divorce! I want my freedom to enjoy my life. Daughter made her tell me the truth.
> I agreed to stay until we got money problems worked out and some major repairs done on the house. Then we will sell the house and she can go to hell! Six months later, I am still living in the back of the house and she in the front.
> Today is our 30th anniversary. She chose to spend the weekend at the lake with our daughter and was supposed to be back this afternoon. At 8:00 PM she had daughter send me a text to say she would be spending another night at the lake. She will see me at noon tomorrow because we are supposed to have lunch with friends from church. She expects me to be there!
> I am going to another town 150 miles away to visit my brother in the hospital. I will send her a text sometime tomorrow! MAYBE!!!
> I posted a very nice note on her Facebook page. It said Happy 30th Anniversary, Darling! I really DO NOT deserve the LOVE and RESPECT you have shown me in the last year! Hope your day was as WONDERFUL as you have made mine! :rofl:


When looking at the bolded bits above, I wonder if your daughter understood the full impact of what her mother was saying - what kind of woman sleeps with a man to sort her finances out.


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## firedog1

manfromlamancha said:


> When looking at the bolded bits above, I wonder if your daughter understood the full impact of what her mother was saying - what kind of woman sleeps with a man to sort her finances out.


The kind that is now 57 and had an affair with a now 27 yo. man from church! Today was our 30th Anniversary and she stayed at the lake with our Daughter so she wont have to feel the pain!!! Very HIGH morals!:lol:


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## Chaparral

You never did say why you are the one moving out. Seems like you letting her have her cake and eat it too.

Edit, just saw where you are selling the house.


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## Thinkitthrough

Maybe you could pack up her stuff and leave it on the POSOM Front Porch. You could leave her a note telling her where her stuff is or let her try to find it on her own. Why would you give her the time to get her financial house in order unless there was some unmentioned benefit to it. Best of Luck.


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## alte Dame

I take it, firedog, that your marriage wasn't always this surreal. I'm around her age & her vaunted freedom is going to be more like lonely days and lonely nights (throw in all the body aches and sags and bags & it looks even less promising).


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## Malaise

alte Dame said:


> I take it, firedog, that your marriage wasn't always this surreal. I'm around her age & her vaunted freedom is going to be more like lonely days and lonely nights (throw in all the body aches and sags and bags & it looks even less promising).


I think that she'll start dressing too young and hitting the bars.


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## Entropy3000

firedog1 said:


> Update! I am still here! We worked things out for a while and it was fantastic. We took a long weekend, went to another town and screwed our brains out. Everything was wonderful until...
> Our youngest Daughter asked her if she was really serious about us getting things right and was she really going to be a wife? She told her NO, I am just trying to get him to stay long enough to get things worked out financially. Then I will file for divorce! I want my freedom to enjoy my life. Daughter made her tell me the truth.
> I agreed to stay until we got money problems worked out and some major repairs done on the house. Then we will sell the house and she can go to hell! Six months later, I am still living in the back of the house and she in the front.
> Today is our 30th anniversary. She chose to spend the weekend at the lake with our daughter and was supposed to be back this afternoon. At 8:00 PM she had daughter send me a text to say she would be spending another night at the lake. She will see me at noon tomorrow because we are supposed to have lunch with friends from church. She expects me to be there!
> I am going to another town 150 miles away to visit my brother in the hospital. I will send her a text sometime tomorrow! MAYBE!!!
> I posted a very nice note on her Facebook page. It said Happy 30th Anniversary, Darling! I really DO NOT deserve the LOVE and RESPECT you have shown me in the last year! Hope your day was as WONDERFUL as you have made mine! :rofl:


Maybe you should rethink this whole church thing. I am not anti-church perse. But this church has basically ruined your life.


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## Decorum

Not surprising, thanks for the update.


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## 86857

Sorry I haven't read all your posts so I may not be up to date:

Line up the best D lawyer you can afford if you haven't already. 

Sounds like she's a step ahead of you given what she said to your daughter. Mightn't be a bad idea to snoop on her if you can so you know her gameplan. But be VERY VERY careful if you do. Run it past TAM first. 

Do the total 180. Search for it on here if you don't know about it. It will mean engaging with her as little as possible only when you have to. This will give you the added benefit of getting used to not engaging with her for when you do leave. 

Given her age, her options are going to be pretty limited if it's any consolation. 

My opinion only.


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## MattMatt

Time for CheaterVille :: Don't Be the Last to Know and to out them at church.


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## Chaparral

Just curious, has she told what great friends you will be after the divorce?


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## manfromlamancha

firedog1 said:


> The kind that is now 57 and had an affair with a now 27 yo. man from church! Today was our 30th Anniversary and she stayed at the lake with our Daughter so she wont have to feel the pain!!! Very HIGH morals!:lol:


Yes, but she is telling your daughter that she is sleeping with you for money! How is your daughter handling that !?!

Wow she is something else!


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## 6301

You know, there's a time and place for everything. To be in your mid to late 50's and all of a sudden you want your freedom and be a crazy single M/F is a bit late. 

There's a bar about an hour from where I live that is a pick up joint for people of that age. Anywhere from mid to late 30's and up. I was in there one night when I was in my late 20's and these women who for lack of a better term past their prime trying to hit on me was a joke. They tried their best to look like they once were with their manner of dress and...............IT JUST DOESN'T WORK! They made complete fools of themselves. Not just the women but the guys were just as bad. I never saw so many comb overs when they try to cover up a receding forehead that went from their eyebrows to the back of their head and doing it with maybe a dozen hairs. One guy had a toupee that looked like Moe from the Three Stooges. He would have been better off with "Hair In A Can". 

Your young once in your life and you can't go back. I know because I'm 66 and for me to try to look 30 would be a joke. I had my time. Had my fun and when the time came I moved on rather than making an ass out of myself. I found out that after a while, trying to suck my gut in to a point that my navel fell out of my ass just ain't worth it and trying to be something that your not like this guys wife is not worth losing a marriage of 28 years. No doubt she'll find out it wasn't worth it. By then, she will have burned all her bridges.


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## bandit.45

Firedog if I were to wager good money I would bet your wife has been cheating on you throughout the marriage. 

No one waits until they are in their late 50s to start exhibiting this kind of behavior. She's been this way all along, but she got sloppy and you finally stumbled on it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## firedog1

Funny you mentioned my Daughter! Her best friend of 25 years is married. She has a friend, from the same church, that she is seeing! She lets him come over at all hours of the night to "Visit". She sits outside with him at 3:00 in the morning and "Just talks" while she is in her night gown with NO bra! Her husband doesn't give a damn! My Daughter has all but disowned this woman because she says it is against every thing in the bible! Yet, she continues to support her Mother! REALLY do not understand this logic but, she doesn't want to take sides with us!!??? :scratchhead:


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## phillybeffandswiss

firedog1 said:


> Funny you mentioned my Daughter! Her best friend of 25 years is married. She has a friend, from the same church, that she is seeing! She lets him come over at all hours of the night to "Visit". She sits outside with him at 3:00 in the morning and "Just talks" while she is in her night gown with NO bra! Her husband doesn't give a damn! My Daughter has all but disowned this woman because she says it is against every thing in the bible! Yet, she continues to support her Mother! REALLY do not understand this logic but, she doesn't want to take sides with us!!??? :scratchhead:


So, this church has produced two men who sit back and watch their marriages fall apart?

You might want to read the post below again.




Entropy3000 said:


> Maybe you should rethink this whole church thing. I am not anti-church perse. But this church has basically ruined your life.


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## Thorburn

*When I got home from work today she had listed all of the financial things and decided she doesnt want to work things out. I will be moving out soon and getting on with my life!
She says there is no one else and just wants her freedom. *

Firedog, this is your post from Dec. 2012. Nothing has changed. Nothing, nada, zip, zero, for almost a year. She is playing you big time.

1. Take whatever steps you feel you need to do to get yourself set up financially.
2. As suggested, stop talking to her, unless it has to do with the house or finances.
3. Look at your life with this woman. You state that everything was fantastic. It never was. It was all a ploy, a sham, created by this B of a wife.

Now is the time to lawyer up. Go dark on your wife. You are playing like the nice BS. Don't give your wife information and please do not share things with your daughter. 

Since you have not posted about a good R I suspected that things were not going to pan out for you.


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