# Long term bf has marriage phobia



## confused28 (Nov 23, 2012)

Ok so I'm 28 and my bf is 33. We have been together for 5 1/2 years and have a 4 yr old son together. I also have a son from a previous relationship that he takes great care of. We live together and do everything that married couples do. I'm ready to get married and he says he wants to marry me, but has never wanted to get married (makes no sense to me). Marriage just doesn't excite him (his words). He said he may have a phobia of marriage and keeps bringing up all the negative things about it, like divorce and feeling regret if it doesn't work out. We got in a huge argument about it today on Thanksgiving of all days. I love him deeply and I know that he is the one that I want to spend the rest of my life with, and he feels the same, just minus the marriage part. It's so frustrating because he flip flops back and forth between wanting to do it and not wanting to do it. Any advice for me and how to cope with this?


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## Chumpless (Oct 30, 2012)

He's stuck between doing the noble thing for the family (what he feels is "right") versus all the other things that scare the crap out of most men when faced with commitment.

I must say though, if he were to propose, I'd think he should've done it by now. 

Don't push it. It's likely not your fault. He's got cold feet, and you can't be too critical of it if he's a good man to you. But then again, ask yourself, what do you want and how important is it to the relationship?

Good luck.


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## anonim (Apr 24, 2012)

confused28 said:


> Ok so I'm 28 and my bf is 33. We have been together for 5 1/2 years and have a 4 yr old son together. I also have a son from a previous relationship that he takes great care of. We live together and do everything that married couples do. I'm ready to get married and he says he wants to marry me, but has never wanted to get married (makes no sense to me). Marriage just doesn't excite him (his words). He said he may have a phobia of marriage and keeps bringing up all the negative things about it, like divorce and feeling regret if it doesn't work out. We got in a huge argument about it today on Thanksgiving of all days. I love him deeply and I know that he is the one that I want to spend the rest of my life with, and he feels the same, just minus the marriage part. It's so frustrating because he flip flops back and forth between wanting to do it and not wanting to do it. Any advice for me and how to cope with this?


"_he says he wants to marry me, but has never wanted to get married_" *means he thinks you are marriage material, but he isn't ready to get married.*

Why do _*YOU *_want to get married? Is it because marriage is '_the next step_' in relationships? Is it because you want more commitment? Is it because you want to 'seal the deal?' 

If he isnt ready , then he just isnt ready. If you're both happy 
as you are, then what does marriage add/change?

What's most important, is that you have a reason that's solid within yourself, why you want to get married.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Two kids, 5 years and no marriage.

It's probably not going to happen. He already has a 'wife' and family.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

You are good enough to be the mother of his child but not to marry him?

I can understand why not being married can cause a lot of issues and for you to feel unstable, like he won't fully commit.

Yes 50% of marriages may end in divorce but far more defacto couples split up each year.

I personally would be reconsidering a relationship to man who wasn't fully committed to me.


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## oldgeezer (Sep 8, 2012)

Why buy the cow, when you get the milk for free?


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

*LittleDeer* said:


> You are good enough to be the mother of his child but not to marry him?
> 
> I can understand why not being married can cause a lot of issues and for you to feel unstable, like he won't fully commit.
> 
> ...


I personally would be reconsidering marriage in this day and age. One wonders why women are the ones to pursue marriage so aggressively, yet a majority of divorces are initiated by them. Marriage sets a man up to get screwed on the legal and financial fronts.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

oldgeezer said:


> Why buy the cow, when you get the milk for free?


This!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mel123 (Aug 4, 2012)

BjornFree said:


> I personally would be reconsidering marriage in this day and age. One wonders why women are the ones to pursue marriage so aggressively, yet a majority of divorces are initiated by them. Marriage sets a man up to get screwed on the legal and financial fronts.


Yes, I have seen a lot of these types of guys, they walk away and take no financial responsibility for their own children. Then the woman is left being a single mom trying to do it ALL and ends up the taxpayers foot the bill.

While these guys are out looking for another girl that is carefree because she has no responsibilities yet the new girls body hasn't been through having a couple of kids and still has her girly shape.

I have seen this happen many times


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## mel123 (Aug 4, 2012)

oldgeezer said:


> Why buy the cow, when you get the milk for free?


 :lol:

Why would a woman want to keep and take care of a pig, when all she gets is a "little sausage"

:rofl:


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

BjornFree said:


> I personally would be reconsidering marriage in this day and age. One wonders why women are the ones to pursue marriage so aggressively, yet a majority of divorces are initiated by them. Marriage sets a man up to get screwed on the legal and financial fronts.


I disagree.

Stats show that women are the ones who are left with majority child care and more likely to end up living in poverty due to career sacrifices for children and so forth.

Women should be careful who the marry. (As should men for various reasons).

If they stay married they die earlier and are more likely to more housework, childcare and still end up working full time.

Men are better off in marriage as they usually get a housekeeper and a person who will look after their children.

There are some women who don't fit this bill, but that's not a majority.

Moreover women don't like to be married to bitter and cynical men.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

mel123 said:


> Yes, I have seen a lot of these types of guys, they walk away and take no financial responsibility for their own children. Then the woman is left being a single mom trying to do it ALL and ends up the taxpayers foot the bill.
> 
> While these guys are out looking for another girl that is carefree because she has no responsibilities yet the new girls body hasn't been through having a couple of kids and still has her girly shape.
> 
> I have seen this happen many times


Stop idealizing the great single mother or women in general and thinking of all men as *******s or the like. This is what has led to the state of the society today. You've seen those kind of women. Well I've seen men who have to fight tooth and nail just so they can visit their children once or twice a month. Men who pay child support for children that aren't theirs. 

You want a real solution to this problem? Rescind all the anti male laws. All of them. Stop fleecing men in divorce court. Stop portraying your everyday man as a variant of Homer Simpson. Stop scapegoating men for each and every problem that arises in society. 

[url="http://www.askmen.com/daily/austin_60/92_fashion_style.html]Read This[/url]

And you wonder why the new age man fears commitment?

Simple answer. He isn't protected by the law. What set marriages of 50 years ago ago from the marriages today 
was that it was a legal contract that couldn't be made void without a reason. A legal fabric that provided both security to the couple on a financial basis as well as on a social basis. 

Now you have your No Fault where anyone can initiate divorce for absolutely no reason. She might cheat on him and still get everything he worked for. You do realize how bad a position it is for anyone to be in, right?

My advice is for men to hold off on marriage till they've achieved their dreams and goals in life.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

*LittleDeer* said:


> I disagree.
> 
> Stats show that women are the ones who are left with majority child care and more likely to end up living in poverty due to career sacrifices for children and so forth.
> 
> ...



Please do show us the stats.



> Moreover women don't like to be married to bitter and cynical men.


So let them divorce and milk the bitter and cynical man dry. Why stay married when, as you said the women die earlier?

Men with money can afford a housekeeper and committed fathers love nothing more than taking care of their children. If push comes to shove hire a nanny to do that. If all I wanted was a housekeeper or a babysitter, I would definitely have not married. And if the woman resents the role of housekeeper or a mother, she is not fit to be married IMO.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

BjornFree said:


> Please do show us the stats.
> 
> 
> So let them divorce and milk the bitter and cynical man dry. Why stay married when, as you said the women die earlier?
> ...


HUH? So when a woman marries it's to be a housekeeper? Really? She has to like being a housekeeper?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

BjornFree said:


> Men with money can afford a housekeeper and committed fathers love nothing more than taking care of their children. If push comes to shove hire a nanny to do that. If all I wanted was a housekeeper or a babysitter, I would definitely have not married. And if the woman resents the role of housekeeper or a mother, she is not fit to be married IMO.


Most married men do not have money and thus cannot afford a housekeeper.

Little Deer was not talking about committed fathers. Too many women stupidly hook up with and have children with men who are not committed fathers.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> HUH? So when a woman marries it's to be a housekeeper? Really? She has to like being a housekeeper?


She doesn't need to resent being in that role. After all she's keeping house for the people she loves or claims to love. Do you resent the housework? 

Do you think that a man resents providing for his children or his wife? We don't have to like our jobs, certainly. I love my job but even if I were to hate it I would still do it if it ensured that my family lived in relative comfort.

But then again I grew up watching my parents struggle hard to keep us floating financially at least, but they still gave me and my siblings a good family life and a lot of happiness during my childhood. And I didn't see either my mother or father complaining about the work they had. So I suppose its only fair that I looked for a spouse who was on the same page as me regarding family and life in general.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Little Deer was not talking about committed fathers. Too many women stupidly hook up with and have children with men who are not committed fathers.


Whose fault was that then?

Little Deer was not even talking about fathers. She was talking about men who were in committed relationships but refused to marry the women they were committed to.

Doesn't the very fact that the OP's boyfriend loves all of her children and plays an active role in taking care of them show that he is a committed father?

To the OP, how would a marriage improve how you are as a couple? How would each of you benefit from marriage? Do you think your boyfriend is the kind who hops from bed to bed?
Finally, do want the wedding to fulfill a fantasy or do you want a happy life with your boyfriend sans the marriage?

These are the questions the both of you need to ask yourselves before making a decision.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

BjornFree said:


> Simple answer. He isn't protected by the law. What set marriages of 50 years ago ago from the marriages today was that it was a legal contract that couldn't be made void without a reason. A legal fabric that provided both security to the couple on a financial basis as well as on a social basis.


But these laws also forced people, mostly women, to stay in marriages where they were abused. The laws basically say that a person does not have the right to make up their own mind if there are huge problems in their marriage. Do you know how hard it is to prove abuse?

There are good things and bad things about the old laws and the new laws.



BjornFree said:


> Now you have your No Fault where anyone can initiate divorce for absolutely no reason. She might cheat on him and still get everything he worked for. You do realize how bad a position it is for anyone to be in, right?


Divorce laws do not give women everything ‘he’ worked for. Each party gets 50% of the accumulated assets. 

Today between 63%-77% (depending on age) of all all women work outside the home. Don’t assume that only the man worked outside the home for their assets.

Women who are SAHMs are not leaches. They bring value to the marriage by taking care of the home and raising children. Your outlook that everything the couple built and accumulated is only his and that only he worked for it is false. She did too. A SAHM, if she does what she should be doing, works are a$$ off 12 and more hours a day.. often 7 days a week.

Why would any woman ever agree to marry, have children and stay at home as a SAHM if the laws did not offer her protection financially?


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## oldgeezer (Sep 8, 2012)

BjornFree said:


> Little Deer was not even talking about fathers. She was talking about men who were in committed relationships but refused to marry the women they were committed to.
> 
> Doesn't the very fact that the OP's boyfriend loves all of her children and plays an active role in taking care of them show that he is a committed father?


If they won't marry them, they are NOT committed. End of story. They're just still attracted to the situation more than to any other possibilities.

He's getting the milk for free, and has the option of jumping into the next attractive bed for fresher milk. This is NOT "committed", it is the precise opposite of committed. It is opportunistic indulgence.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

BjornFree said:


> Whose fault was that then?


A woman who hooks up with a guy who ends up a dead beat dad is at fault for choosing him.

The dead beat dad is at fault for being a dead beat dad. She’s has no blame for him being a low life.


BjornFree said:


> Little Deer was not even talking about fathers. She was talking about men who were in committed relationships but refused to marry the women they were committed to.


I believe that the following is talking about fathers… fathers who are deadbeats.. do not help out with child care and/or financial support for the children.


*LittleDeer* said:


> Stats show that women are the ones who are left with majority child care and more likely to end up living in poverty due to career sacrifices for children and so forth.





BjornFree said:


> Finally, do want the wedding to fulfill a fantasy or do you want a happy life with your boyfriend sans the marriage?


Marriage is not about a wedding to fulfill a fantasy. Marriage has benefits that single life and co-habitation do not. There are tax benefits. There are share assets. Inheritance laws, etc. etc. there is the emotional benefit of forming a legal union … making the parties feel safer.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> There are good things and bad things about the old laws and the new laws.



What they need to do is revamp the entire system so that they take the best from both the old and the new.




> The dead beat dad is at fault for being a dead beat dad. She’s has no blame for him being a low life.


 I agree. But the woman isn't too sharp either.

We can have this discussion all day but I think its futile to do so.
I stand by my position on this issue.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Marriage is not about a wedding to fulfill a fantasy. Marriage has benefits that single life and co-habitation do not. There are tax benefits. There are share assets. Inheritance laws, etc. etc. there is the emotional benefit of forming a legal union … making the parties feel safer.


Of course, I never discounted the financial benefits of marriage. But one has to weigh the pros and the cons before making any decision(especially if you don't marry the right person, but then you'll never know unless you do).


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## Viseral (Feb 25, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> But these laws also forced people, mostly women, to stay in marriages where they were abused. The laws basically say that a person does not have the right to make up their own mind if there are huge problems in their marriage. Do you know how hard it is to prove abuse?
> 
> There are good things and bad things about the old laws and the new laws.
> 
> ...


SAHM's do work hard and add value. 

The problem is that even if a couple doesn't have children, the woman still walks with half of all the assets, even if she did nothing to earn those assets. I know, because I pay $1600/mo to my ex for a two year marriage with no kids.

Marriage laws don't protect men, period. No Fault divorce, VAWA, and Equitable Distribution Statutes are laws that harm men and dis-incentivize marriage for men.

Under these laws, women have the legal right to leave their husbands for any reason they wish (no fault), accuse him of violence and have him thrown in jail with no evidence (VAWA), and take half of everything he ever worked for even if she never worked to earn those assets (equitable distribution statutes). 

Mens rights are a legitimate issue, and women would benefit from understanding men's perspectives on the risks of marriage especially given the laws above. If women want more marriage, then change the laws so that the risk doesn't outweigh the reward for men.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

A man might be excused if he doesn't find the prospect of marriage enticing. What's in it for him? He's already getting sex and that's about the only possible benefit for the average husband (when they can get that). As soon as he says "I do", he's lost half of all present and future property. Unless he's married to a verifiable psycho or monster, if things don't work out, she's nearly certain to get child custody. In some states, he could end up legally responsible for paying child support for both kids, whereas he now might be legally responsible for one. Statistically, in America, 80% of household spending decisions are made by women. The guy legally loses half of everything he has and will have if the marriage fails and 80% control of his earnings if it succeeds. If he says "I do", what does he get that he isn't already getting? Look around on this forum and see how many guys are financing a wife that doesn't do a blessed thing for them and haven't for decades. Sound like a good deal to you? I can think of several advantages marriage provides for a woman. For a guy, it's like investing everything into a partnership where only the male has any legally enforceable obligation. The other party can do or not do as they please. The only enforcement mechanism he has is divorce (in which case he loses custody of his kid, at least 1/3 of his income in child support, and half of all his stuff. Your guy is already getting anything he'd ever get from marriage. Without a marriage contract, he can walk any day. You know this and have some motivation to keep him in the game. With a ring and a marriage contract, he has legal penalties hanging over his head to keep him in the game, so you might very well forget your motivation.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

that_girl said:


> Two kids, 5 years and no marriage.
> 
> It's probably not going to happen. He already has a 'wife' and family.


:iagree:


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## galian84 (May 7, 2012)

Going back to the OP's dilemma...sorry to say but it doesn't sound like he's going to marry you. He already has everything he wants, without having to make a commitment :/

Have you tried sitting down with him and talking to him about the issue? Why you think marriage is important? Does he ever see himself married to you?

I disagree with the anti-male laws as well, and I do think the laws need to be re-vamped and that each divorce needs to be taken on a case-by-case basis (for example, if a father has joint custody and faithfully visits his child, buys him things, helps pay for the child's schooling, etc, then why should he have to pay child support?).

I have seen way too many cases, my own mother included, who abuse the system. Unfortunately, I can see why so many men are averse to marriage.

For this reason, I won't move in or "play wife" with a man unless we're engaged, and will not have children with him unless we're married. 

SAHMs and devoted fathers should be given more recognition, IMO! And people definitely need to be VERY careful about who they marry.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

OP, YOU'RE going to have to take responsibility for this YOURSELF.



> I'm 28...We have been together for 5 1/2 years and have a 4 yr old son together. I also have a son from a previous relationship that he takes great care of. We live together and do everything that married couples do. I'm ready to get married


So, by my reckoning, you've been with BF since you were 22-23yo. Before THAT, you were with some other BF whom you did NOT marry, but with whom you had a child.

I am *NOT* being judgemental; I *AM* pointing out that you sabotage your own life.


Boyfriend #1, have a child, never marry
Boyfriend #2, have a child, never marry

If marriage is SO IMPORTANT to YOU, then WHY aren't you waiting UNTIL YOU'RE MARRIED to have children? Are you just moving in with them, eager to show them how loving and easy-to-get-along-with you are, having a child with these men and then EXPECTING that they will see the 'value' of having you be a permanent wife?

If your goal is to be a married wife and mother, you should be dating a man (not moving in), getting ENGAGED (then MAYBE moving in, maybe not), getting MARRIED, THEN having children.

You have been a 'wife' to these two boyfriends WITHOUT REQUIRING them to marry you. You're HOPING they'll marry you, you're WANTING THEM to marry you, you're EXPECTING that they'll marry you. But, as a very WISE person here on TAM pointed out having 'hope' is not the same thing as having 'a plan'.

It's possible this BF will NEVER marry you; can you live with that? If so, let it go. If not, then you need to set a timeframe WITH HIS INPUT and decide when you will get married. If marriage is NOT in his future and it is a deal breaker for you, then you need to move on.

There is NOTHING WRONG with your goal of being a wife and mother. You cannot, however, blame BF (or anyone else) for the poor decisions that have led you to your current situation. If you feel you NEED to be married, then YOU NEED to REQUIRE it...of yourself AND your significant others.


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## anonim (Apr 24, 2012)

galian84 said:


> He already has everything he wants, without having to make a commitment :/


He *has *committed to her, he had children with her right? He shares his life with her and them right? So do not discount this. Dont say 'he is not making a commitment,' if he lives with her and has had children by her, and supports them, that is a commitment in and of itself. 

And even if he has '_Everything he wants,_' there is nothing wrong with that. He seems happy with the _level _of commitment he is giving and receiving.



The rest of you guys are derailing this thread with your own issues. Yes men get screwed in marriage. Yes women get screwed by deadbeat dads. People get screwed. Make a new thread about it, don't ruin this one, someone came here for help.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

It's a commitment but it's not enough for her.

I've been there. THANK GOD he didn't want to marry me because I know I would have walked anyway (my daughter's father who is abusive), but there was always that feeling of "I'm not good enough". 

Sure, he was dedicated to our child but he wasn't dedicated to me. I don't know the dynamics of the OP, but for me, looking back on that pseudo-marriage, there are huge red flags of cheating and the such. I didn't even want to legally get married at that time...just wanted a civil ceremony without papers. He wouldn't do it.

OP, perhaps in the meantime, draw up papers of power of attorney for medical/financial and get trusts/living wills. We (My H and I) went to Legacywriters.com to get these papers because before we got married, we were just 'us'...with children...and this made us feel more secure. 

I was worried that medical decisions would go to our parents (which it would) and we were worried that if something happened to either of us, then his parents (who are horrible and insane) would get his money (which they would) and wouldn't share (which they wouldn't). My mom would have gotten my stuff, but I'm pretty sure she would have given it to him...although we weren't SURE. These papers helped while we weren't married. It's relatively cheap...you just have to get them notorized.

Something to think about anyway.


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## Married in VA (Jan 6, 2012)

OP,
IMHO, you will need to sit down with your BF and have a discussion about marriage. I recommend you do this from a non-emotional standpoint so as not to turn the discussion into an arugument. You cannot control him but you can be assertive and state your needs. Once your needs are out in the open you can then hear and evaluate his response. You then have to take his response and bounce it off your value system. It comes down to this:

1. Marriage is a must for you. If this is the case, then make it known to him that if he does not marry you then you will reconsider being in a relationship with him.

2. Marriage is not a must for you. If that is the case then you will continue in your relationship content with his LEVEL of commitment to you. Doing nothing is the same as marriage not being important for you since your needs are being ignored. 

Once you decide where your values lie, then you act accordingly. When you take all the emotion out of it, it really comes down to the two courses of action above. Best of luck.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

My husband didn't want to get married. Ever. I was 'eh' about it....didn't care either way. I was 31, fine on my own, wasn't looking to get married. We got pregnant, he moved in, and it was good. But we decided one morning (randomly) just to get married (it was April 1) and we were married 2 months later. This all happened within 19 months.

5 years though...I dunno....talk to him and figure out WHY he doesn't want to marry. My husband didn't want to marry because he saw his parents go through HELL ....both abusive and crazy. He didn't want any part of that. I was "eh" about marriage because my mom had three marriages and they all failed. I didn't understand why i should get married. There was no engagement for us...just a discussion about why WE should get married, or not. What would WE do differently than our parents? Why should we let the government control our relationship, etc.
I will say, though, we get EFFED during tax season. For that, we should have stayed single :lol: truth.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

BjornFree said:


> Please do show us the stats.





> Poverty is a women's issue; Female headed families are more likely to be poor
> 
> In 2011, more than 5 million more women than men lived in poverty.
> Families headed by a single adult are more likely to be headed by women, and these female-headed families are at greater risk of poverty and deep poverty; 34.2% of families with a female householder where no husband is present were poor and 16.9% were living in deep poverty; 16.5% of families with a male householder where no wife was present were poor and 6.7% were living in deep poverty; and 7.4% of married couple families with children were living in poverty, 2.4% were in deep poverty.
> Children living in single female-headed families were more than four times as likely to be living in poverty, and eight times as likely to be living in deep poverty, than children living in married couple families.


Poverty in the United States: A Snapshot | National Center for Law and Economic Justice

As women are more likely to end up caring for the children even after divorce this means they are far more likely to end up in poverty.

I know this site is full of women and men who have been cheated on, but most women do not leave their husbands over an affair. Some men abandon their families and some women leave because of abuse or neglect etc

That is why women should choose carefully and be more worried then men.

The laws have been changed to help protect women, who as Elle said have probably sacrificed a lot to raise their children or have also worked outside the home. 

Stats show more and more women do both- they work and still do the majority of child care and house work.

I get sick and tired of the spin of poor men, getting ripped off bla bla. It happens to both sexes but women are more likely to be worse off at the end of the day.

I also can see it from both sides, as I am marrying a man whos ex W tried to take him to the cleaners and my ex H is still making my life difficult and we are still wasting money on lawyers and court, when we accumulated everything together and he admits that we wouldn't have the assets we do have if it wasn't for me.

But back to the OP

I would tell him it's very important you and either you mean enough to him to make it official or you need to rethink if you want to spend your life with someone who is not fully committed to you.


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## oldgeezer (Sep 8, 2012)

anonim said:


> He *has *committed to her, he had children with her right? He shares his life with her and them right? So do not discount this. Dont say 'he is not making a commitment,' if he lives with her and has had children by her, and supports them, that is a commitment in and of itself.


I'm curious what you think this commitment is. 

Old joke: Bacon and eggs for breakfast. The chicken participated... the pig was committed. 

What you write above and what she's written looks like "participate" to me but you're calling it "committed". 

I, at least, can't see any commitment. He simply has no obligations whatsoever, other than his own wishes. Not even just a promise on his own with no ceremony to inform the world of his promise, so as to hold him to his commitments.


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## mel123 (Aug 4, 2012)

oldgeezer said:


> Old joke: Bacon and eggs for breakfast. The chicken participated... the pig was committed.
> 
> 
> I, at least, can't see any commitment. He simply has no obligations whatsoever, other than his own wishes. Not even just a promise on his own with no ceremony to inform the world of his promise, so as to hold him to his commitments.


:iagree:


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## Summer4744 (Oct 15, 2012)

Little deer I am sick and tired of the propaganda of the poor single mom. Fifty years ago you may have been correct but not today.

Today women get the best of both worlds. If they choose to get knocked up by a dead beat dad I will have to pay for it through welfare. Meanwhile as others here have noted marriage for a man no longer provides any benefits. Instead marriage is the single biggest risk a man will go through in his life. Something that can make or break you.

I applaud this man for being astute enough to realize this. Women have backed themselves into a corner by offering something to men that no longer has any meaning. Marriage. You cant honestly blame this guy for being reluctant after reading the train wrecks here at TAM. 

My advice to this man would be to stay strong and don't back down. What are the odds this woman will be able to find another man like him?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

:rofl: I was a knocked up single mom. NOT on welfare. And it was rough, but it was life. 

However, having children without marriage or some sort of protection is a gamble. It is doable though. 

To me, if a man doesn't marry a woman, he is not 100% sure she is the one. Simple as that. "There's no benefit for a man to marry". Perhaps. Although, my husband wouldn't be living where we live without my salary as well.


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## bobby5 (Mar 21, 2011)

If he is looking after you and your child and your child from a different relationship he stepped up to the plate. Would be alot worse if you married a guy who didnt care or messed you about. Your expectations may be the issue. If marraige is really imprtant to you then talk about it butn i rekon you might have something more special than a marraige cert.
Id like your opinion on my situation
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...counseling-end-all-hope-me-help-new-post.html


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## anonim (Apr 24, 2012)

oldgeezer said:


> I'm curious what you think this commitment is.
> 
> Old joke: Bacon and eggs for breakfast. The chicken participated... the pig was committed.
> 
> ...


so what are you saying is commitment? why do you equate being sent to the slaughter as being committed?

He is already doing everything a husband does. why do you want the piece of paper?

you say "I, at least, can't see any commitment. He simply has no obligations whatsoever, other than his own wishes. Not even just a promise on his own with no ceremony to inform the world of his promise, so as to hold him to his commitments. "

Why do you think, someone should be obligated to stay in a relationship they don't wish to be in?

The point is that he wants to be in that relationship, his actions are the voice of his wishes and no piece of paper can ever force his feelings to change, or to stay the same.

Marriages dont keep people together. What you are referring to is 'control.' And it doesnt work. Having a choice is what makes it a choice.


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## Viseral (Feb 25, 2011)

Actually, Dead Beat Dad's have more legal rights in the USA than men who marry. Dead beats only have to pay child support. 

Married men who go through a divorce, 70% of which are initiated by women, have to pay for child support, alimony, half the bank accounts, half the retirement fund, half his future pension, plus legal fees.

Both go to jail if they don't pay.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I no longer feel the desire to try marriage again

It's just too much BS to get out of it, I pretty much set myself up to a world of pain by marrying my STBXW

He's committed to you, every day he wakes up and he chooses to be committed to you. It's better this way then every day he wakes up knowing that he's committed because he has no other choice, knowing how fked divorce is going to be like.

De facto relationships don't feel like cages. Marriage does especially during the bad times. To be honest, I no longer believe in marriage, and I'm 28. But does that make me a less commited person? Why does caging = commitment?

As I said before - he chooses everyday to commit himself to your relationship. How can he be judged as not commited simply because he doesn't want to feel caged or to risk going through what I'm going through at present?


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

that_girl said:


> I will say, though, we get EFFED during tax season. For that, we should have stayed single :lol: truth.


How did you get screwed by being married?

I'm about to get effed this year, Wife was SAHM and was essentially halfing my income. Now I'm apparently ripe for the taking by Uncle Sam.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

COguy said:


> How did you get screwed by being married?
> 
> I'm about to get effed this year, Wife was SAHM and was essentially halfing my income. Now I'm apparently ripe for the taking by Uncle Sam.


You see... I dont understand this. Why would you look at it that way? Do you resent being married? Just as I dont understand those woman who feel they have to control all finances rather then treat thier man as an equal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

that_girl said:


> To me, if a man doesn't marry a woman, he is not 100% sure she is the one. Simple as that.


:iagree:


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Dollystanford said:


> :iagree:


By the way... I do agree with what dolly agreed with. If a man isnt sure then he needs to say so... Not play this flip flop game.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Deleted a few posts because I felt they were projecting a bit too much.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Gaia said:


> You see... I dont understand this. Why would you look at it that way? Do you resent being married? Just as I dont understand those woman who feel they have to control all finances rather then treat thier man as an equal.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, she said she got screwed tax wise by being married.

From a pure financial/tax basis being married saved me many thousands of dollars every year. Wondering how it would "screw" anyone unless they were making substantially less than their partner.

It was a purely financial statement, nothing to do with how I felt about my marriage.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

COguy said:


> How did you get screwed by being married?
> 
> I'm about to get effed this year, Wife was SAHM and was essentially halfing my income. Now I'm apparently ripe for the taking by Uncle Sam.


For some reason, when we do our taxes together, we are in the higher bracket so we always owe. If we do them separately, we can get back about $3,000. But here in CA, doing it separately is the same as joint (they are tricky how they do it). So...we owe. I never owed until I got married, and neither did he.

That's been our only negative thing about marriage. And here in CA, I'm not the only person/couple with that problem. Even our tax lady laughed when we went as a married couple...she said, "You know, now that you're in the higher bracket, things will change." Yup. They did. It sucks.


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## Thoreau (Nov 12, 2012)

*LittleDeer* said:


> I know this site is full of women and men who have been cheated on, but most women do not leave their husbands over an affair. Some men abandon their families and some women leave because of abuse or neglect etc
> 
> 
> Stats show more and more women do both- they work and still do the majority of child care and house work.
> ...


70% of women file for divorce. And if I may enlighten you further, the number one reason is infidelity.
Abuse or neglect is much farther down the list.

Did you know that 73% of all statistics are made up on the spot???

As my good friend Mark Twain once said:

"There are 3 kinds of lies; lies, damned lies, and statistics."


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## Creedence (Dec 2, 2012)

Bjorn i do agree to a extent,i take care of my son,clothe him and bathe and feed him,she takes care of him 1 day aweek,i gave up a promotion and MADE sure i got a 2 bed room apartment so he had a room,and i STILL had to defend my ability to take care of him full time


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

COguy said:


> No, she said she got screwed tax wise by being married.
> 
> From a pure financial/tax basis being married saved me many thousands of dollars every year. Wondering how it would "screw" anyone unless they were making substantially less than their partner.
> 
> It was a purely financial statement, nothing to do with how I felt about my marriage.


Ah ok thanks for clearing that up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)




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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

> To me, if a man doesn't marry a woman, he is not 100% sure she is the one. Simple as that.


I disagree

From sounds of things, he is committed and DOESN'T need a piece of paper to prove it. However he is protecting his relationship which he obviously values from trauma by risking marriage.

I was sure my STBX was the one, dead sure, still didn't want it. Only thing that made me get married was baby bells. Now history is repeating itself, two broken homes in two generations. OP's bf is smart, and in my opinion, he shouldn't follow after society's norms.

Why isn't it enough that he chooses to commits to his relationship DAILY, rather than waking up knowing he's stuck in a commitment?


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

What traumas do marriage bring that arent experienced by unmarried couples hmm? Damn if people look at it as "being stuck" no wonder things dont work out. But really... What so called traumas do marriages bring that arent experienced in unmarried relationships?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Viseral (Feb 25, 2011)

A 50% chance of divorce and financial ruin.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Aside from the getting divorced financial ruin can happen regardless of being married or not. It just depends on who one was with, if they had kids, and if theu were the kind of person who had it in them to ruin someone else. That happens without one having to be married.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Viseral (Feb 25, 2011)

Nope.

My girlfriend can't ruin me financially. If we broke up, we go our separate ways, she keeps her stuff, I keep mine. 

If we had a kid like the OP, then I pay child support. Even Steven. There's a healthy balance of power in the relationship.

Now, if my girlfriend was my wife, and we broke up, then I'd not only have to pay child support, but alimony, half the house, half the bank accounts, half the retirement accounts, half of future pensions, legal fees, and in my case, even half my frequent flyer miles. 

In today's legal climate, it's extremely risky for men to get married, especially if they've worked hard to build wealth. Specifically, no fault divorce, VAWA, and Equitable Distribution Statutes, are laws which tilt the justice system in women's favor.

Men see this. They see their male friends and family being financially and emotionally ripped apart in the court system. So, men, mostly being rational creatures, usually perform a mental risk to benefit analysis inside their heads before making big decisions, and often times the risk of marriage outweighs the reward. Simple as that.

Honestly, I would love to marry again, but if I do, it won't be without a pre-nup and completely separate finances. I simply can't live with the fact that, on a whim, another person could completely destroy me financially and ruin my future. That is in essence what No Fault divorce amounts to.


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

confused28 said:


> Long term bf has marriage phobia


Who can blame him.

Were I to divorce, I would never marry again. No way. Marriage as an institution seems to be in its death throes after decades of being white-anted, and has nothing but life guttingly negative consequences for men in its current form, so why bother?

I will not be encouraging my son to marry, no way is a woman going to destroy my boy


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Am a the only female here that didn't want to get married and got with someone who did?


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

oldgeezer said:


> I'm curious what you think this commitment is.
> 
> Old joke: Bacon and eggs for breakfast. The chicken participated... the pig was committed.
> 
> ...


Haha funny, that just tells me your view on commitment. You're more committed to telling the whole world you made a promise than to the promise itself and the only reason to honor your commitment is because you've told the whole world. That's a commitment a person can do without.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

confused28 said:


> Ok so I'm 28 and my bf is 33. We have been together for 5 1/2 years and have a 4 yr old son together. I also have a son from a previous relationship that he takes great care of. We live together and do everything that married couples do. I'm ready to get married and he says he wants to marry me, but has never wanted to get married (makes no sense to me). Marriage just doesn't excite him (his words). He said he may have a phobia of marriage and keeps bringing up all the negative things about it, like divorce and feeling regret if it doesn't work out. We got in a huge argument about it today on Thanksgiving of all days. I love him deeply and I know that he is the one that I want to spend the rest of my life with, and he feels the same, just minus the marriage part. It's so frustrating because he flip flops back and forth between wanting to do it and not wanting to do it. Any advice for me and how to cope with this?


*REAL MEN FEAR NEITHER MARRIAGE NOR COMMITMENT *

You have given him everything , yet he's afraid to commit in marriage?
So its ok for you to prepare his meals, do his laundry , take care of the kids, have sex whenever he wants it for over five and a half years,
But he cannot marry you?

Nuff said.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> *REAL MEN FEAR NEITHER MARRIAGE NOR COMMITMENT *
> 
> You have given him everything , yet he's afraid to commit in marriage?
> So its ok for you to prepare his meals, do his laundry , take care of the kids, have sex whenever he wants it for over five and a half years,
> ...


There we go again with the Real Men philosophy. What happened to the other Real Men thread CM? It was getting interesting.....

Btw, this guy has been with her for those 5 years and he's given her sex too and he's also taking care of her son from a previous relationship and by her own admission they're doing everything a married couple does.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

*LittleDeer* said:


> Moreover women don't like to be married to bitter and cynical men.



I am going to call this a thinly veiled ad hominem attack.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

Wolfman1968 said:


> I am going to call this a thinly veiled ad hominem attack.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It was glaringly obvious.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

oldgeezer said:


> Why buy the cow, when you get the milk for free?


 Many men feel this way, it is not nice to say, but women should be aware of this fact.



EleGirl said:


> Too many women stupidly hook up with and have children with men who are not committed fathers.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:



> *Caribbean Man said*: REAL MEN FEAR NEITHER MARRIAGE NOR COMMITMENT


 An honorable man of Good character will do the right thing by his woman ..... he will go out of his way to protect, provide & give her the highest assurance of commitment. And he will keep his word.

Unfortunately Confused 28...you had the heads up he was NOT the marrying type from the get go ...you said >>>>


> I'm ready to get married and he says he wants to marry me, but has never wanted to get married (makes no sense to me). Marriage just doesn't excite him (his words)


... I don't feel it is ever good to push a man here , he may grow to resent this - even if you break him down & he conforms to your wishes - it just shouldn't work this way. 

If I was you, I would accept this is unlikely to happen after 5 years ...or decide to leave him if it matters that much to you......but with a child in toe, I know it's not so easy..


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