# The LC/NC Thread..



## AmImad (Jan 28, 2011)

So I have made this thread, so we can come and keep record of our contact, report when we backslide.. get advice from one another... and even the occasional spanking! If we feel like contacting... we can come here.. if we think there should be something we need to tell/ask our spouse come here first and see if it's important enough.. I for one 'find' reasons to text my H..

This is like an AA meeting for contact addicts!

So I'll start, my last back backslide was Wednesday 23rd when I told him about a song I heard on the radio 
We've texted since, but no R talk, talked about access to the kids, and something our son did. I was very light hearted when I spoke to him on the phone, last night when I said bye, he said (quietly) have a great night.. this shocked me a bit and I just said you too bye...ARGH I miss the f*ckwit! :scratchhead:


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## Crankshaw (Jan 12, 2011)

having a bit of a backstep myself at the moment, no, I don't want to contact her, guess thats a good thing, just don't really like my house anymore 
gone for a smoke.


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## AmImad (Jan 28, 2011)

*hugs* Nooooo don't give into the smokes you're doing so well! xx

Well H was texting me this am, he said he couldn't call the kids as he was in meetings early...

Right now my plan is to just be 'nice' and myself not going out of my way to text him, but to reply nicely...with no 'R' talk and also me being nice confuses him as he expects me to be a b1tch as I deleted him off FB and I wont tell him why!

M: "Ok, try not to fall asleep "
H: "I did yesterday.... give the kids a squeeze please"
M: "Now there's a suprise! Will do, don't work too hard."
H: "It was my 4th technical presentation of the day I was tired of being talked at and the room was really f'n hot. I'll try, but only because you asked so nicely"
M: "Did you dribble and Snore? Haha Ok "

He hasn't replied, he maybe busy as he's in meetings, but for once I am not bothered about him not replying. I am pleased with my interaction, I know there was more talk than necessary, but I kinda wanna screw with his mind, make him question it for a change and maybe even make him miss the nice me a little bit..

He has the most boring job in the world.. but he knows I will always listen when he is stressed out with it and I know he is right now and he doesn't have me...


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## Crankshaw (Jan 12, 2011)

AmImad said:


> *hugs* Nooooo don't give into the smokes you're doing so well! xx


too late, had one, had to ge the step ladder out though, didn't really enjoy it tho.



> Well H was texting me this am, he said he couldn't call the kids as he was in meetings early...
> 
> Right now my plan is to just be 'nice' and myself not going out of my way to text him, but to reply nicely...with no 'R' talk and also me being nice confuses him as he expects me to be a b1tch as I deleted him off FB and I wont tell him why!
> 
> ...


so now it is your turn to play mind games


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## AmImad (Jan 28, 2011)

*sigh* well no more ya hear?! It's good that it tasted yukky, it might deter you in the future and the fact that I am scowling at you! You're giving me premature wrinkles!

Well kinda.. is that what I am doing? :biggrinangelA:


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## Crankshaw (Jan 12, 2011)

AmImad said:


> *sigh* well no more ya hear?! It's good that it tasted yukky, it might deter you in the future and the fact that I am scowling at you! You're giving me premature wrinkles!


******, yes Ma'am, no ma'am shant do it again ma'am !



> Well kinda.. is that what I am doing? :biggrinangelA:


well, could be


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Great idea, AmI. H and I have been having those kinds of texts about stupid things, and on the phone, too. He actually joked with me a couple times over the last few days, which is a change. And I feel like last night was one of his "I had to hear your voice" moments, but he wouldn't just tell me that, so I talked to him. 

I need some strength today. I'm off work for a funeral, so no work to keep me semi-occupied. He will also get off work early because of his hours. So when I arrive home, he will be here. I'm pondering coming here first and then going to get the kids. Just to see what he does/says when we are alone. Or, should I just go get the kids and come home? My mom will be with me today, so that will make things interesting. I have to keep her away from H or she'll tear him limb to limb.


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## Babyheart (Feb 9, 2011)

Argh mine was last night. Ended up emailing him - we had 30 emails back & forth. He mostly danced around the questions I asked, maintained there was no affair & I was so horrid our whole marriage that he has "bent & adjusted to my requests our entire marriage". HUH?? News to me indeed...

And he said this:
You are so one sided and thick headed ! What the hell are you saying I don't have reason? I've said your the controlling and have never listened to me at all. You always do things your way! You know we afre going some where I'm working or out somewhere, make sure I'm back to washup and get going and yet kids still are not ready to go. Stop!!!!! Seriously stop. You are so onesided and honestly you know what maybe I should have been more like my father or yours. Don't want this to get messier. Stop with the affair!! Stop! Why did you go to "study" group looking better than when we got a chance to be togethjer. Why after Bday dinner, and kids in bed and quiet another 2 and half hours before we go tobed. You went right to computer. So STOP!!!!!!!

Now first off my dad rocks so wTF is he talking about, my dad would never ***** & moan about something like my mom not being ready (ok so he may moan a bit but not this [email protected]). And yeah 3 kids to get ready - not as easy as 1 friggin person!!!

And me being on the computer - I had homework for school that was due the next day, we went to bed at 930 & had some very hot sex. WFT is his problem? I didnt go to bed with him at 730 & have soem hot sex??


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## AmImad (Jan 28, 2011)

They love to play the blame game don't they? Some how it justifies their behaviour..It's mental!

The only thing my H has said about him not coming back, is because I am 'Hard work' and he's too lazy to put the effort in.. I asked how I was and he didn't answer.. I mean seriously.. and I am changing, how does he know if I am hard work or not??

I am actually sat here crying. I am so tempted to call him, just because I want to hear his voice, but I know I can't because it will go against everything I am supposed to be doing..


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## Crankshaw (Jan 12, 2011)

AmImad said:


> They love to play the blame game don't they? Some how it justifies their behaviour..It's mental!
> 
> The only thing my H has said about him not coming back, is because I am 'Hard work' and he's too lazy to put the effort in.. I asked how I was and he didn't answer.. I mean seriously.. and I am changing, how does he know if I am hard work or not??
> (


you ???? hard work ???? WTF, now I know I have never actually met you face to face, but we have had quite a few chat sessions etc, and I wish the next lady I meet is as light on as you are, FFS, hard work, gawd, he must be one lazy son of a b**ch !!!


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Stay strong, AmI! Babyheart, it sounds ugly over there. Sending Hugs! Crank, you better put those cigs down. They are no good for you. Go for a run instead or chew some gum.  

I think the forces that be are messing with me. Seriously. What are the chances that on my way back home this morning, on the exact moment I pass his work, he pulls out in front of me from the gas station and turns into his work.  Goodness. I honked to say hi, but not sure if he realized I was behind him. Then I texted, "I see you" like the big dork that I am. No response. He probably thinks I've gone mad. Going to clean my house up a bit before getting dressed nice for the funeral. Don't want H thinking I can't handle this single working mom business. Or maybe I do?


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## Gilgamesh (Dec 15, 2010)

mine was today....i needed a lift (cuz she has the car and public transport where i was going suckssssss) so i asked, it was all fine, saw my daughter etc, then on the way to drop me home, daughter fell asleep in the car seat and the ex started arguing that i am not organising my time with my daughter properly...
(the whole reason why she says this....)
3 weekends ago i was meant to have my daughter for the full weekend, except my ex wanted to take daughter to her grandpas bday, i said it was ok as long as i got her next weekend. Little did i realize that i would be working that weekend (i havent had work in like a year so i didnt want to knock back the money) and said can i change it to the weekend after, she said yes thats fine....
then come that weekend something else came up on her end, so i just had my daughter for the day not the night.
ANYWAYS my ex argued that im now not seeing my daughter on purpose....saying that im not organizing times properly and i just "show up" when its my turn to pick her up....(all because my ex wants to organize a weekend away with her new man)....
i kept as calm as i possibly could, didnt raise my voice, just added little comments in like....."so im inconveniencing you now, just like u inconvenienced me 6 months ago?"

I love my daughter.....ive tried my hardest to see her as much as i can, i had to work because i am literally flat broke almost 24/7 lately....and right now i feel like texting the ex so bad blowing up at her....i honestly dont think she thinks about what shes saying....about how blind she is to what she has actually done to destroy my life....or maybe she does and just doesnt care....i miss my daughter so much....everytime i see her lately she picks up new sayings and habits that absolutely shock me...it feels like im missing out on her life...3 times a fortnight just isnt enough....xept the ex wont budge anymore unless i goto court again.....


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## Shianne (Feb 5, 2011)

Can I join in?
I have to somehow find the strength to stop talking to my husband. He is the source of all my pain... and all my joy... and I never get to pick what I will get. 12 years of abusive cycles trying to save my marriage with good Ash always getting run over by bad Ash.
He says all I want to hear for a few days. Then runs me over and basicly takes it all back. Showing me that we are in fact excatly where we were last month. 
Why do I keep doing this to myself? I talked to him the night before last and cried and fought off panic attacks until yesterday evening. I am better for now but need the strength to not answer the phone.
I am so sick of living in fear and am so paranoid. But soooo lonely....

Every time I hope and pray that this time... this time he really does see... he never does... when will I be tsrong enough to just effing give up...


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## AmImad (Jan 28, 2011)

Shianne said:


> Can I join in?
> I have to somehow find the strength to stop talking to my husband. He is the source of all my pain... and all my joy... and I never get to pick what I will get. 12 years of abusive cycles trying to save my marriage with good Ash always getting run over by bad Ash.
> He says all I want to hear for a few days. Then runs me over and basicly takes it all back. Showing me that we are in fact excatly where we were last month.
> Why do I keep doing this to myself? I talked to him the night before last and cried and fought off panic attacks until yesterday evening. I am better for now but need the strength to not answer the phone.
> ...


*hugs* I know exactly where you are coming from  infact I feel pretty much the same as you, that I could have written it! My H builds me up to knock me down


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## Shianne (Feb 5, 2011)

Wouldn't it be nic if there was a switch to just turn it off?!?
I keep asking myself why do I hold on? It makes no sense to a logical mind. My therapist calls it traumatic bonding. That sounds like a lovely basis for a marriage doesn't it...


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## Crankshaw (Jan 12, 2011)

Shianne said:


> Can I join in?


I is not an open club here, we have certain rules, and certain standards we seek to maintain, so the answer is 'Hell yeah, of course you can'


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## Crankshaw (Jan 12, 2011)

LonelyNLost said:


> Sending Hugs! Crank, you better put those cigs down. They are no good for you. Go for a run instead or chew some gum.


ta for the hugs, always welcome 

yeah yeah, I know, I have smoked for 35 years, bit hard to break the habit ya know 
Nope, no running, my knees wouldn't handle it ! and I have some sugar free gum here (hmmm, must buy some more, and coffee as well!)


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## Shianne (Feb 5, 2011)

One more honest step into pathetic for me... it is not just lonely that makes me contact him. I am scared of what he might do and what his mood is and I am more fearful of not having a "bead" on his current mindset. I spent 12 years tending his mental state at all times and I am having a very hard time getting myself to believe that it is not my responsibility. I never could do it anyway. All I did was pick up pieces... over and over. This time I must leave them lay on the floor and I sure hope I can... 

good thread idea! This is so hard I might just post here 1000 times lol


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## AmImad (Jan 28, 2011)

Shianne, I hear you sweety! My H has aspergers, adhd and severe depression at times, but I would always do the same, infact I used to make excuses for him.... still do *sigh* but I always 'looked' after him and now I am trying to understand and learn that he didn't treat me as well as he should have...

My H called the kids this evening, my youngest wasn't really talking him, tv was more important... well she is 4! Well anyways he hung up on her! She was upset so I called him and he swore at me! I informed him I wouldn't be putting up with that language and I wanted an apology and hung up on him! He called back still arsey but did say sorry.. Yet this morning he was all laughing and joking... I always said to him he was Jekyll and Hyde..I was so tempted to text him giving me a piece of my mind... I didn't!

I know I hurt but I have to trust myself, I can do this, I am stronger than I give myself credit for.. 

Thanks, I can imagine us breaking a record with the amount of pages we'll get


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## Crankshaw (Jan 12, 2011)

AmImad said:


> Shianne, I hear you sweety! My H has aspergers, adhd and severe depression at times, but I would always do the same, infact I used to make excuses for him.... still do *sigh* but I always 'looked' after him and now I am trying to understand and learn that he didn't treat me as well as he should have...
> 
> My H called the kids this evening, my youngest wasn't really talking him, tv was more important... well she is 4! Well anyways he hung up on her! She was upset so I called him and he swore at me! I informed him I wouldn't be putting up with that language and I wanted an apology and hung up on him! He called back still arsey but did say sorry.. Yet this morning he was all laughing and joking... I always said to him he was Jekyll and Hyde..I was so tempted to text him giving me a piece of my mind... I didn't!
> 
> ...


way to go princess :smthumbup:


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## DjF (Nov 24, 2010)

Things are going really good for us right now, we talk almost everyday (she calls me or text me, I never initiate the conversations)...we are spending 2 to 3 nights together...

but almost every night, with her or without her, I can't sleep...It's like it is going to good and I am waiting for the next hammer to fall...I'm exhausted all the time...it's a petty problem when things are going so good...but literally...I'm struggling with my health because I'm expecting the worse to happen and can't enjoy the progress we are experiencing!


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

DjF said:


> Things are going really good for us right now, we talk almost everyday (she calls me or text me, I never initiate the conversations)...we are spending 2 to 3 nights together...
> 
> but almost every night, with her or without her, I can't sleep...It's like it is going to good and I am waiting for the next hammer to fall...I'm exhausted all the time...it's a petty problem when things are going so good...but literally...I'm struggling with my health because I'm expecting the worse to happen and can't enjoy the progress we are experiencing!


That's great, DjF! Well, except for not sleeping.  Have you tried sleeping pills or anxiety meds? You are right to take things slow. And always fear something happening. But try to stay positive. :smthumbup:


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## DjF (Nov 24, 2010)

I am positive for the most part...and I am focused on trying to do all the smalls things right, which we haven't done so well at in the past...

I just can't sleep...I'd take something to help, but we live out in the country and I am paranoid about sleeping too soundly...we've had a few instances of people driving up our road in the middle of the night...the dogs did their thing and the cars turned around, but I was at least woken up to see them leave...

I love living where we do..but once the youngest graduates from high school in a few years, I think the dream home we built will be a thing of our past...


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## Shianne (Feb 5, 2011)

He is texting all nice... I replied to the one about giving the kids hugs with i will
i left the sad face one talking of how he misses me bad and really trying to breath alone 
then the one that said he loved me
then replied to the one saying he was getting it back together i said good and without thinking typed i love you
thing is i do effing love him. hate me for it but love him... hate everything about him yet still love him? 

insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result...

I just want to text him more and give him what he wants. Like the crying baby that isn't yours it is so hard to not care...


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## Shianne (Feb 5, 2011)

ack more texts. all nice I am going to try silencing my phone and imagining I forgot to plug it in last night... oops dead battery... can I do that? making dinner will distract me... here I go


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## Crankshaw (Jan 12, 2011)

Shianne said:


> ack more texts. all nice I am going to try silencing my phone and imagining I forgot to plug it in last night... oops dead battery... can I do that? making dinner will distract me... here I go


yeah, you can do it 
we have faith in you !


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## denise1218 (Dec 24, 2010)

I am still pretty much doing the 180....somewhat successful....I started it last Thurs. We had no contact until Wed.

H: Can we meet sometime to talk about the divorce?

(I saw the text but did not respond to it....6 hrs. later.....

H: Did you get my message
Me: Yes. Sorry did not respond earlier....went to breakfast and the beach....what did you have in mind?

H: I was hoping we could take a look and start filling out forms. What do you think?

Me: Can you get the forms online?

H: Not sure.

Me: Fill out what you can then I will fill out the rest. After we can discuss later whatever else you wanted to talk about.

H: Ok, I will do my best on it. Thank you.
Me: no problem

So.... you think that was pretty good? I havent heard from him since. I will probably have to see him in a few days because he is getting the boys for spring break.....hope I can maintain my 180....


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Shianne, it's hard when you've spent years being responsible for someone else's mental health--hard to let go, to stop. I admire you for making the effort. Keep it up. Remember that as long as your kids are with you, there is no need to answer the phone--your mom and sibs (if in the picture) will understand, and you can call them back if they leave a voice message. Have you told him to stop calling and texting? If not, do it--he can have one email address for communicating about the kids or, better yet, set up a neutral intermediary (your lawyer, for example). Just do it. After you go through your initial panic about it, it will feel sooooooooo good! 

And keep telling yourself, "I am not responsible for him." Over and over again, when you get the urge to check up on him. 

Traumatic bonding--powerful term, powerful stuff. But you are stronger, and you will cut those chains that bind you!


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## AmImad (Jan 28, 2011)

Had a nightmare, 1st one for a while, have woken up wanting to talk to him, to be comforted.. I dreamt he came to pick up the kids & had a love bite on his neck, anxiety attack woke me up  he flaunted it at me thinking it was funny... I'm already thinking of asking him if he has someone else & had to be talked down.. 
Keep trying to drum it in, I don't want him, he hurt me & my babies, he's not the person I want, he left a long time ago. I deserve better... I cant text him.... I want to but can't.. if he's got someone else, what can I do? Goes to show he doesn't care. He still doesn't know my hospital results... why would I want him?? I feel sick 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Crankshaw (Jan 12, 2011)

Denise, yes, I think that was pretty damn good, nothing vindictive, keeping yourself first, making him do the work he should be doing, keep it up as best you can


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## Crankshaw (Jan 12, 2011)

AmImad said:


> Had a nightmare, 1st one for a while, have woken up wanting to talk to him, to be comforted.. I dreamt he came to pick up the kids & had a love bite on his neck, anxiety attack woke me up  he flaunted it at me thinking it was funny... I'm already thinking of asking him if he has someone else & had to be talked down..
> Keep trying to drum it in, I don't want him, he hurt me & my babies, he's not the person I want, he left a long time ago. I deserve better... I cant text him.... I want to but can't.. if he's got someone else, what can I do? Goes to show he doesn't care. He still doesn't know my hospital results... why would I want him?? I feel sick
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


trust what I told you princess.


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## AmImad (Jan 28, 2011)

Sat talking to my Dad this morning, I am NOT contacting the H, he's not bothered about me, he's not interested in me at all, not even asking how I am, not even asking about treatment/results... My H has left the building 5 months tomorrow... no show of remorse, nothing...


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## attmay13 (Mar 17, 2011)

I had a big one last night myself. My wife has me jumpimg through hoops which now i think is a joke for her to see what I would do for her. I have no problem with that because of what I put her through. 
So I go to the house to pick up the kido and see is outside on the phone. I stop by and bought her a nice card wrote some sweet words and handed it to her. See wouldnt even look at it! Then tells me that I wasting my time with all the things that Im doing and see is done, its over. My countseller asked me to see if she would be willing to come to the next appointment, so I asked her the next day after countselling. With no reply for two days! The last night she gets right up in my face and said "I will go with you to countselling but its not going to do anygood because I dont care, I dont trust you". Well OK im thinking that lest she is going right?
So I leave the house with the kido and the phone rings it her. She told me that my father was lieing to me that she never told him that she wanted to work on this and he is fill me full of $**T. 
My father and I are just now starting up contact after 16 years. We are both trying very hard to make this work and believe it or not SHE is the one to THANK for that! Now she is trying to rip us apart. I dont understand it at all. She loves him to death.
So Im an emotional train wreck at this point. I dont know who to believe my wife or my dad. So I call him to confront him about it. After talking to him I totaly believe him. Plus the fact that he has never lied to me before not matter how much it hurt me. I dont know what to do Im going crazy! The 180 plan has work a little but she is fighting me every step of the way.
Why did she give me a list of thinks that I had to do for us to get back together only when I bust my butt to do them she start running away from me? I know that she thought that I would never do the thinks that she had on the list ie: countselling, give her space and spend more time with the kido, and work on being unselfish. All of the things on the list are being done or still being done. I dont understand!


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## Shianne (Feb 5, 2011)

AmImad, I am so sorry you had to have a nightmare like that!! I hope it fades into the strength that will keep him away and help push him out of your heart.

sisters359, thank you and you are right. In fact I sit here now loving this thread and telling myself I don't care. Don't feed the bear. I don't care. Don't feed the bear.
It rhymes and if I do it enough it makes me smile. 
(When you feed a bear in your yard they will always sniff around for more and come back. Make a mess, dump out your trash, eat the dogs food lol.)

denise1218, I am actually jealous that was an awesome exchange. Maybe I can get you online before I reply to my hubby  That was good, not mean or snotty but not loving or begging. 

I am not going to text him. He scheduled over my next weeks therapy appointment his own appointment. So he will not be able to watch the kids. He texted when his was, i texted that I would find a sitter or reschedule and he did not reply. That was 8 hours ago. Is he pissed? feeling guilty for forgetting (unlikely)? cancelling his appointment (better not be I said I would work with it) is he mad at me? 
I have to stop caring


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## Shianne (Feb 5, 2011)

attmay,
I am thinking about the why would she give you a list. You say she didn't think you would do it. I have to say I am so in that boat with my husband. I don't think he can follow this all the way through. I still want him to despite my pain. I just fear (maybe this is where your wife is) that with a list he could do the things just to get me back but there would be no real change. How often will I be submitting lists? I want my husband to change, I try to help him on the road to change but ...

I am terrified ... if he does change... will I be able to let go of the past? Will I be able to see the change or will I always be waiting for the other shoe to drop? Will I always have this tense feeling of not knowing when my world will crumble again? Is it better to deal with my not having him to love and love me back for the security of stability for myself and the kids? 
I don't care. Don't feed the bear.


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## DjF (Nov 24, 2010)

Shianne....sometimes we have to not feed the bear inside of us too...you ask a lot of tough questions about the future....is it better to not have love and be lonely or to have love with doubts and pain? is essentially your question...your own bear...

now isn't the time to worry about that...now is time to heal yourself, too grow...to find your own peace and happiness...

don't feed the bear!


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## Shianne (Feb 5, 2011)

See, but right now, right here I struggle. I not only feed the bear but I wrestle it. Every day I have to choose to not tell him to come home. I have to choose to have no time other than this morning time when the kids are in their morning groove. I have to choose no sex. No hugs. I have to choose a deep and achy loneliness.
I could call him and he would make it go away but at what price. I could call someone else and they would make it go away at a deeper price.
I can't though I have to choose to hurt and I hate it. I just want to be loved. I give love freely why is it too much to ask that I get a little back...

I can let go of the future but it is my right now... right now I would love a hug... and if I could stop crying I used to love sex... been over a month so I don't remember, but I swear I do lol

I'm way sad and crying this morning... have 10 minutes to pull it together...


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## attmay13 (Mar 17, 2011)

Shianne said:


> attmay,
> I am thinking about the why would she give you a list. You say she didn't think you would do it. I have to say I am so in that boat with my husband. I don't think he can follow this all the way through. I still want him to despite my pain. I just fear (maybe this is where your wife is) that with a list he could do the things just to get me back but there would be no real change. How often will I be submitting lists? I want my husband to change, I try to help him on the road to change but ...
> 
> I am terrified ... if he does change... will I be able to let go of the past? Will I be able to see the change or will I always be waiting for the other shoe to drop? Will I always have this tense feeling of not knowing when my world will crumble again? Is it better to deal with my not having him to love and love me back for the security of stability for myself and the kids?
> I don't care. Don't feed the bear.


Shianne
Well all that I can say is that of myself. Is change possable you ask? YES Im proof of that! but true question I see here is if he does change could/would you be will to work with him? I am to the point in my change that IF my wife and I work this out SHE needs to work with me. Go to countcelling with me ect.... If she is not willing then all I can do at that point is only work on me and I know that she will get left behind and that is NOT at all what I want. It took this mess that I am in to see that I have hurt her and that was the BIGGEST wake-up call in my life. Is it to little to late? Maybe but thats not up to me, the balls is in her court. I waiting and hoping that she will see that I have changed and that I am trying... Its up to her


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## rome2012 (Sep 10, 2010)

Dear Ex-h,

Really  ???

You are getting food from a place that's 5 minutes away and it takes you over 45 minutes (so far).....a *fast* food chain.....:scratchhead:

I am NOT going to say it to you....no....I'm not going to ask you where the hell you got the food, because you're probably got a booty call somewhere or had to call a girl on your blackberry in private..... 

But I'm not going to give you the satisfaction to say "See....nothing has changed." because I'm not going to make one comment !!!!!!

NO !!!!!


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## Shianne (Feb 5, 2011)

Man Rome...
That is ouch...
I hope you start sorting this out for yourself soon...


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## Kcrat (Mar 18, 2011)

@Shianne~ I feel you on the "Why do I hold on" front. I am (was) like a pit bull who wouldn't let go! AND, it was a terrible marriage for pretty much 22 years! BUT, when he had an affair and all the other betrayal "stuff" he's done, why would one not just say, "GOOD RIDDANCE?" I am getting stronger each day. I think I have "traumatic bonding" too! LOVELY FOR US! LOL Let's work on "Traumatic Letting Go," ok?


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## Shianne (Feb 5, 2011)

Today I woke well and I do not need to tell him that because he had nothing to do with it 
Well I think the quiet day yesterday had something to do with it. Seems it took me about 3 days to recover from the loud
(swears he was not yelling or mad, just excited) *my a$$*
ongoing monologue that he gave me (it was not a conversation) about how his lack of money before payday was my fault. He wanted more accountability this time around and he has bills. 
In reality he was just mad that I was right and 2+2=4. He was really counting on 2+2=3 so he would have spending money lol
I have earned my wet blanket insults well by being smart about money. I have earned my insults and digs about not being any fun, think too much and being a downer about money.
Guess what, when you have to get through the year on less that 
20K and a 5 person household there is not much room for fun!!!!!! 
So really he was just pissed that we had food and we were okay. He should be glad his kids are cared for but I swear that he was pissed and would have preferred I shorted them for his desires. Eff that, never again. Ever, the kids are first now.
Then the rant about me not letting him shower here. He can't understand why I wouldn't let him it is his house still. Hehehe noooo.... it's not. The courts have the papers and so do I and he signed giving me sole ownership of the lease here and this is MY apartment now. He lives down the road now where his bed and TV are, where his mail goes. If he wants a better place he can find one. (I had to secure that place for him to expedite getting him out)


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## Shianne (Feb 5, 2011)

lol I am and I am pretty sure it is pretty traumatic for him. Or it will be when he sees it.
Funny thing (I am bolstering myself for tonight) last time we talked I told him I wanted to get to some deep stuff. He only sees his rage... so I told him there was more and we needed to talk. He said he wants to know, he wants to be and get and do better. So I start trying to tell him how whenever I have something I need to say he cuts me off... but he kept cutting me off *shakes head* I tried and tried but never got it out. Only heard about how great he is doing and how I need to stop living in the past because he is better and I just ned to let go and see

big fat WHATEVER...

is it Monday yet


**in my paranoia I deleted posts so for clarification purposes I will add that in the legal seperation paperwork he gave me 100% placement of the kids with a sunday night visit over dinner at my place with me there. I hung myself as bait for the sake of the kids and it sucks but far less than having them go with him anywhere ever. They are my babies and I would let rabid dogs chew my legs to protect them. I just wish this didn't feel so much like that lol


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Alright, I'm officially in the LC/NC category. I gave him the 3 page letter yesterday where I asked that we take a step back until he figures out what he wants to do because I can't trust myself to not pressure him into working this out. He responded by deleting me, my friends, and my family off facebook. Nice. He is still acting mad at me for calling his ex gf and letting it ring twice the other night. Of course, his reason was that he was embarrassed that she called him and asked who was calling, but I think he was on the phone with her and she read him the number. But it's not like he'd hand me his phone to prove the point now would he? I'm torn on whether or not to change the locks, take the key to his motorcyle, and/or separate our finances. Ugh.


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## AmImad (Jan 28, 2011)

Dear C*ntchops,

Thank you for turning up 45 minutes late for picking up our children..

I appreciate that you made an effort to buy birthday and mothers day gifts for them to give me next week... nothing from you so that's nice..

Thank you for having a huge f*cking love bite on your neck and not trying to hide it, so much for not being with anyone else.. I f*cking hate that you have broken my heart yet again and made me feel not good enough. Well guess what, I am the best you'll ever f*cking get mate, You may think you're over me, but you'll never be able to replace me and one day you'll realise what a mistake you've made. And how you've lost out on the 4 most precious things in the world.

I hate that I love you, you don't deserve my love, you're not worthy of it. Well now you'll truely learn what it's like to be divorced.. the kids will answer the phone when you call but that is the only contact you'll be having with me.. I need to do this for me, I can't move on if you are in my life....

Oh and right now at this very second, I wish you the worst pain and suffering known to man, I also hope you get knob rot and die.

Love and Kisses
Your amazingly wonderful DOORMAT of a Wife....


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## Shianne (Feb 5, 2011)

yeah! You are mad!  
I like this thread

he really did have a lovebite! a$$!!!! I was hoping that was just a dream hun...


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## rome2012 (Sep 10, 2010)

AmImad said:


> Dear C*ntchops,
> 
> Thank you for turning up 45 minutes late for picking up our children..
> 
> ...


 I can't believe it !!!!!!!

He really had a hickey ??? That's scary crazy, you just had a dream about it !!!!!

You know what....maybe that is what he needs !!!!!

I do my best 180 when I'm mad at him....

Be strong !!!!!


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## AmImad (Jan 28, 2011)

Shianne said:


> yeah! You are mad!
> I like this thread
> 
> he really did have a lovebite! a$$!!!! I was hoping that was just a dream hun...


Yeah so did I... I am hoping I dream of the winning lotto numbers tonight!!

I actually feel HATE for him right now... the cheeky f*cking [email protected] had the cheek to ask me how the hosptial went.. too ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!:cussing::gun: 

I wish I could turn my feelings off, I really do. Thing is you see a pic of my H and you'd say AmI, WHY?! Whats the fuss about?!


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## Shianne (Feb 5, 2011)

Lets cuddle our mad today  I think I need to nurture my anger rather than avoid it at this point.

It is Sunday after all. 
No showers! He will not shower here even if he argues it and says I'm mean in front of the kids.


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## rome2012 (Sep 10, 2010)

Gosh, ex-h....why are you sooooooo confusing !!!!

I have an abscess and my cheek is hilariously fat....

You are making lunch for the youngest and yourself and come to ask me if I'm going to be able to eat ???

Why do you care, yet sleep in the spare ????

:rofl: That rhymes :rofl:

But seriously.....are you trying to mess with my head ????

Being caring and sweet, yet distance yourself from me physically....

Should you really try to make things right ???

That can't be...I hope....but then....it just would be too good to be true !!!!!!

Is there a pull-out-hair smiley ???

Maybe this one :scratchhead:


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## Shianne (Feb 5, 2011)

Yah me
Today I text him that dinner is at 7 and how is he doing? He texts back that he is good and what time should he come. I text 6 so that he can play with our son while I fry chicken (our son is 7 and has autism, pretty hefty dose of it...) I threw in a bit extra against the NC/LC thing to relieve my anxiety. I probably saved him from digging himself further into a hole but I was going crazy. The whole showering here is pissing me off so I texted him just before he came
Me~ ok I am taking a new approach i am just going to know that you would not ask me to shower here and stop worrying about it... 
Him~ 12 minutes later, no worries
It is 6:06 when he sends this.
He did not show until 6:37. I am amazed at how pissed that made me. I said nothing, already not with him and if he doesn't want to come spend time with his kids we will carry on without him. I did and had it half way done when he got here. All quiet and sad. Uneventful dinner, no real anything, the kids ate and off they went. he sat , got sad and left. 
I feel good, no regrets this Sunday 
I did not cry and he did not push... good Sunday


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## Crankshaw (Jan 12, 2011)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ good stuff !!!

I had an amazing conversation with my W today, couldn't believe it, she sat quietly, listening to what I had to say, didn't interrupt once, she apologized for the way she has been acting and asked if we could give our marriage another go.... then I woke up, it was only a nightmare


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Awe, crank, you had me going! 

Wish me luck this week with no contact. I need strength and self control to keep from texting or calling him. I will only respond to his texts about the children, which is all I'm going to get I think. I can't believe he's shut me out of his life, just like that. I told my son last night that "mommy wants to save the marriage, and daddy doesn't." I had to tell him the truth.


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## Oak (Mar 21, 2011)

Crankshaw said:


> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ good stuff !!!
> 
> I had an amazing conversation with my W today, couldn't believe it, she sat quietly, listening to what I had to say, didn't interrupt once, she apologized for the way she has been acting and asked if we could give our marriage another go.... then I woke up, it was only a nightmare


Gawd I hate that nightmare. I tend to have them over something really mundane so they are nice and believable. The last one I had we were folding laundry together in the bedroom, talking about how her classes were going, what to get for dinner, so forth. 

When I woke up alone in the dark I think I experienced a "moment of madness." I even had to reach over and check the empty spot to make sure the separation wasn't really the dream.

No more watching Inception with red wine.


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## Shianne (Feb 5, 2011)

Talked to him on the phone this morning. He is doing well and last night went well. He texted me to tell me that he was on his way home from his intake for an abusers group. I feel mean to say I am actually shocked but he did it... it is a 24 week program... he didn't sound like that was so bad to him. Is it for real, could it be for real or am I getting played like a fiddle? Who could know at this point. My fear of being the [email protected]*ch that can't get over the past will probably come true at some point but at least I have 24 weeks to see what happens without question 
For now we go on  I am here with the kids living life and being happy  I could do 10 years of this lol Sunday dinner and LC otherwise. 
Oh and one other big hurdle he is going to have I realize. Him being calm and happy and well on his own really says nothing of how he would be back here. It may be best for us all, all of our happiness, if he lives somewhere else forever, and comes over to be a great dad for 2 hours a week. or a lousy one that sits and is dad so the kids know they have one and I'm not trying to keep him away...


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## rome2012 (Sep 10, 2010)

Crank my friend,

I hate those dreams  .....I wake up happy and have to realize it was all just a dream and my life still sucks....

One thing I realized today.....

Gotta stop the "W"s.....

When ???? Why ???? Who ???? Where ???? What ????


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## rome2012 (Sep 10, 2010)

Shianne said:


> Talked to him on the phone this morning. He is doing well and last night went well. He texted me to tell me that he was on his way home from his intake for an abusers group. I feel mean to say I am actually shocked but he did it... it is a 24 week program... he didn't sound like that was so bad to him. Is it for real, could it be for real or am I getting played like a fiddle? Who could know at this point. My fear of being the [email protected]*ch that can't get over the past will probably come true at some point but at least I have 24 weeks to see what happens without question
> For now we go on  I am here with the kids living life and being happy  I could do 10 years of this lol Sunday dinner and LC otherwise.
> Oh and one other big hurdle he is going to have I realize. Him being calm and happy and well on his own really says nothing of how he would be back here. It may be best for us all, all of our happiness, if he lives somewhere else forever, and comes over to be a great dad for 2 hours a week. or a lousy one that sits and is dad so the kids know they have one and I'm not trying to keep him away...


Shianne, that sounds great !!!!

Even though my ex-husband might think otherwise..... because since my mother passed away end of January I had an all time low and I neglected a lot of my changes (picking them up now though).....but I believe people can change....I am not liking who I was and who I still am to a point, but I know I can change into this better person, I'm determined and am going to do it !!!!!!

Your husband might be on the right track....and who knows maybe you'll like the new and improved him so much, you'll change your mind about it  .....

I'm happy for you !!!!!


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Okay, I'm forced to go full no contact. My suspicions about him having an EA with the ex gf 3000 miles away was spot on. I'm furious, disgusted, sick. How dare he make me feel bad and say I'm pushing him away. I've let my suspicions be known a million times and I was right. I will never again second guess my instincts. I think I'm done with him. How can I get over a second time of this happening?


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## paperclip (Feb 24, 2011)

LonelyNLost said:


> Okay, I'm forced to go full no contact. My suspicions about him having an EA with the ex gf 3000 miles away was spot on. I'm furious, disgusted, sick. How dare he make me feel bad and say I'm pushing him away. I've let my suspicions be known a million times and I was right. I will never again second guess my instincts. I think I'm done with him. How can I get over a second time of this happening?



From my experience with my ex-wife. They will do anything to justify their own guilt.


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## Shianne (Feb 5, 2011)

I'm so sorry lonely...


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

paperclip said:


> From my experience with my ex-wife. They will do anything to justify their own guilt.


What'd your ex-wife do?


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Now his friend just messaged me and said he just talked to him and he doesn't think anything is going on between them. Ugh. Is he just changing his mind because he's afraid I'll throw him under the bus? I don't know what to believe now. So confusing.


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## Shianne (Feb 5, 2011)

or you do know what to believe... and just don't want to believe it

That was my issue, I knew, just didn't want to know. 
But I knew we would be better with him out and we are. Still take some getting used to...


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Yeah sometimes we keep our blinders on just because we "love" someone. But a wise person once told me "Don't let someone walk all over you just because you have 'feelings' for them."

Truer words have never been spoken.

You want him to be something that he is not right now. That is a tough pill to swallow but the sooner you accept the reality of what's happening, the better position you will be in.

For me I stopped wondering if it was true or not, since he kept saying there was no involvement. One day I just decided "Yes he is cheating and won't come out and tell me and that is sad." I just accepted that as the truth and it makes it easier than having all these little things not add up. I also believe that in time, the truth always always reveals itself.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

He replied after I asked him why he changed his mind and said he just got a different reading on everything after talking to him. I just let him know that I feel the same way. I'm convinced he's cheating, then when I talk to him I believe everything he says. Grrr. I guess I'll just go with the "in time things will reveal themselves". Right now, I'm going to proceed the same way I would either way. I'm going no contact and worrying about myself. Trying not to make things ugly.


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## AmImad (Jan 28, 2011)

Dear H,

I was just sat here and anxiety grabbed at my stomach, thoughts of Dubai last August popped into my head... 

We had such an amazing time..

A month later you was talking to her..

A month after that.. you'd gone...

How did you just stop loving me? I'll guess I'll never know.
I hope you know I loved you more than anything.

Love 

Your Angel.





I really wish these anxiety attacks would stop, the sickness in my stomach and the going cold, I hate this...


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

AmI, you're making me sad! Hang in there. Remember, you don't want him! He's treated you like crap, dragged you through the mud, abandoned you and your kids, emotionally manipulated you. Remember? Now get mad again. You can do this. Men want you. You're a great mom. We love you. Who cares what some jerk thinks of you? He missed his chance. Would you really be okay if he came running back to you? I think it would be easier to get over it all and move forward without him than it would be to move forward with him. I know it's what you want, but not what you need. Your heart is hurting. It's understandable. Mine is too.

But I've decided that my H isn't the man I love. He is some other version of him. His internal struggle is his and his alone. Whatever the reason be. And I'm going to take care of myself for now. He can self destruct on his own. Not my problem.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

I just wanted to add that I'm on my 4th day of NO CONTACT. Unless you count the texts he sent asking to have the kids call and asking when he could come get them, to which I replied very businesslike. I even told him to just honk when he got to the house. So we haven't even seen each other. I think I'm doing good. If I make it a week, I'm going to celebrate. We'll see, though, since he will want to see the kids and all, and I'm not sure that our original agreement is still on the table after this past weekend.


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## AmImad (Jan 28, 2011)

*hugs* Thank you Lonely  Feeling a tad low, but I think I am a bit hormonal too  **sorry boys** so I always get emotional.

He's not my husband any more, he doesn't care, he hasn't for the last 5 months. I couldn't trust him again could I?

EA or PA they have cheated on the person that loves them the most in the world, he's blown it.

I'm so proud of you! You're doin better than I did!! I had cancer to deal with and all I wanted was him


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Well, I think if that was thrown on my plate, I'd be a little less able to be strong. Even right now I just want someone to hold me while I cry. I dreamed of him holding me and telling me it would be okay. But then I woke up. And realized he is only thinking of himself. Sure you love me, that's why you left, right?!


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## AmImad (Jan 28, 2011)

Same, I had a big break down today, sobbed my eyes out, knowing that I'll never ever get back what I had, that I'll never kiss that man again and just feel safe. I wonder if he ever looks at me like me like that?

I guess not.. or if he does, he shakes it straight back off again.


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## Oak (Mar 21, 2011)

Mourning the innocence lost by this is one of the worst things I have gone through. Before this, we always laughed about how strong our relationship was and how well we communicated. I looked back at birthday and anniversary cards and how heartfelt the messages were, even recently.

No matter what happens, I will NEVER feel that secure, that unconditionally loved, ever again. And I cannot help but grieve about how wonderful the feeling was even knowing now how flawed it became.

I do not doubt that my wife has spent her time crying over the same thoughts. 

We all can mourn, and we should. Just remember that mourning is a natural way of saying goodbye. Say your goodbyes. When you are done, wipe your tears away and say hello to your new life and embrace your ability to choose whomever you wish to share it with.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

You will feel great about someone just not right now. You have to get over her before you can move on to that.


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## Oak (Mar 21, 2011)

See I always mean what Jelly says, I'm just verbose about it.:rofl::rofl:


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## AmImad (Jan 28, 2011)

Oak, that was actually very moving to read, thank you for that xxx


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Oak said:


> See I always mean what Jelly says, I'm just verbose about it.:rofl::rofl:


LOL.  Maybe we have the same brain with different words.

Today I was walking in the hallway at work and started smiling at the thought that one day I am going to have VERY good sex with someone who I probably haven't met yet. LOL. And while I am nowhere NEAR that happening yet, it made me smile and feel kind of silly--like a 16 yr old in a candy shop!


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## AmImad (Jan 28, 2011)

Well he called the kids, had a quite a long chat with them. 

My youngest handed me the phone and I did the "Ok, all done, bye"
Cept today he seemed to want to talk to me, he asked me how the kids were doing (as they had a tummy upset) I said they were fine and they'd be back at school tomorrow. I attempted to say good bye again, he went quiet for a few seconds then said "Oh ok, have a good evening" And I hung up..

I was like the ice queen...


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## Oak (Mar 21, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> LOL.  Maybe we have the same brain with different words.
> 
> Today I was walking in the hallway at work and started smiling at the thought that one day I am going to have VERY good sex with someone who I probably haven't met yet. LOL. And while I am nowhere NEAR that happening yet, it made me smile and feel kind of silly--like a 16 yr old in a candy shop!


Haha that is great! I am not quite there yet myself, not even mentally. My wife was my first and only. She always said it was odd because I was so confident but she was the one with experience lol. Age does give a slight edge there I guess.

P.S. Just stay away from the Jaw Breakers!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

LOL. Yeah for me I am only there mentally. Sex post-divorce is a scary thought but I am only 30 so it's GONNA HAPPEN 

And apparently I'm in my sex. peak at this age. Sweet!


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## Oak (Mar 21, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> LOL. Yeah for me I am only there mentally. Sex post-divorce is a scary thought but I am only 30 so it's GONNA HAPPEN
> 
> And apparently I'm in my sex. peak at this age. Sweet!


I am also 30. Except my peak was 12 years ago. F$%#!


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Wow, that's kind of funny, we are all around 30. I'm 32. We're still young, right?! 

I feel I must have hit some sort of peak. Sex is one of the things I miss the most about my H.


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## AmImad (Jan 28, 2011)

I'm going to be 31 on Friday  I'm practically dust...


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## Oak (Mar 21, 2011)

We are still young and perfectly capable of finding companionship. 

I'll add that to the list of things I AM going to repeat each morning lol.


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## Oak (Mar 21, 2011)

AmImad said:


> I'm going to be 31 on Friday  I'm practically dust...


/FACEPALM :lol:

I will be 31 in September, you are not THAT far ahead.


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## Oak (Mar 21, 2011)

And since we are on the subject and this was in the news...here is some reference material in case it becomes necessary:

A world map of penis sizes: Which countries have the largest and smallest | Daily Loaf


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## Shianne (Feb 5, 2011)

I'm gonna be 37... I still like to think it could happen... sex might be nice...
then the whole with who question comes to mind and ... not ready lol
Yesterday early he got up and went in to do intake for an abusers program, got accepted and has insurance in place for full coverage. I tel him good job. I actually think he is going to do this...
then...
last night he showed that we are still running the same 3-4 day loop.
My dumb a$$ talked on the phone with him when he called and listened to way too much of his feelings on entitlement to a portion of my rent money. He will pay me back next check. My rent comes out of my disabled sons SSI that he feels he is entitled to a portion of since it was part of our families income and he was counting on it. I am being clearly unreasonable he says. He threatens to give up and walk away but this time I told him that he should. I can't take that threat anymore. 
I am not asking to be rich. I did not spend his money. I am not living large here. We addressed the money issue and I took it on by the horns (was proud of me for that) I told him flat out that his always quitting jobs and never striving to do better than $10 and hour but wanting to be sole provider and then reckless spending. All not an option anymore, our finances are legally split and we are done. Fair shares are handed out in the beginning and there is no asking for more from the other. I never have asked but figured I would give him that.
We left the call on a very bad not with him saying he was done, didn't want to wait for me to say it he wanted to be the one to say we are done. I said ok bye and hung up. I went to bed (2 freaking am!) he called and texted from 3:30-4:30 and I did not answer. I silenced the one call so as not to be disturbed and the texts didn't wake me until 8:30. I replied in a fog as I woke. He was ... of course... taking it all back. Then I realized that he is now finally sleeping. He will wake in a few hours...


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## AmImad (Jan 28, 2011)

Dear Stupid thickheaded spaz that I am ashamed to call my Husband..

I wanted to tell you about all the funny things your children have been upto.. Livvy can type her whole name out on the computer, they've been telling me jokes this afternoon, I love that our 4 year old thinks she is hilarious, with her made up jokes, you're missing out on all of this, all because you are selfish. Our 3 amazing children are growing up so fast. One day, you're going to realise just how much you've missed and I hope that you hate yourself.

One day our children may call someone else Dad, have you ever thought about that? They may love someone else, in the way that they should love you and only you, and this is all because of what?

I wish I knew...

Good luck with your fabulous new life, but one thing is for certain, it will never ever be as good as mine.


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

Hey Shianne,

I'm going to be 37 next week and am in the middle of working out the finances so that we can file for divorce...I absolutely refuse to believe that there isn't someone out there! If I thought that for a second, I'd stay and be roommates with my husband forever, believe me! Living together is the one thing we're good at in all of this...

Oh--and my little wise-a$$, but very true advice for the day--you know, your phone has a little red button on the right. Turns the whole darn thing off and you don't have to deal with any phone calls or texts or anything until you feel like it  And anytime you want/need to use the phone, you can just push the green button on the other side and it's all ready to go again! No middle of the night calls, texts, or anything. When you're done, phone's off and you're done! :smthumbup:

You know you miss my approach to these things, don't you??!!??


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## Shianne (Feb 5, 2011)

I sure do  And I swear I heard you when I silenced it at 4am. He is going to crash and burn and it makes me sad but it does kinda prove my point that I have been saving his butt for better than a decade. 
I can't save him. I can only save myself *que old stabbing westward songs lol*
I can save the kids. we can start on a path of meger living but the kid of meger that has security in where dinner will come from and the rent being paid, in full, on time. That is not a big magic thing, normal people do it all the time. I am not mean or cruel to expect this.
Maybe the threat of possible jail if he quits this job will be enough to get him to keep it. Just caring for his family was never enough...

So I slid but I am okay. None is what he expected... wtf?!? of course it isn't! He seemingly expected us to keep going like this forever. It was good for him.


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## Oak (Mar 21, 2011)

COGypsy said:


> Hey Shianne,
> 
> 
> Oh--and my little wise-a$$, but very true advice for the day--you know, your phone has a little red button on the right. Turns the whole darn thing off and you don't have to deal with any phone calls or texts or anything until you feel like it  And anytime you want/need to use the phone, you can just push the green button on the other side and it's all ready to go again! No middle of the night calls, texts, or anything. When you're done, phone's off and you're done! :smthumbup:
> ...


Oh I like you...


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

Shianne said:


> I sure do  And I swear I heard you when I silenced it at 4am. He is going to crash and burn and it makes me sad but it does kinda prove my point that I have been saving his butt for better than a decade.
> I can't save him. I can only save myself *que old stabbing westward songs lol*
> I can save the kids. we can start on a path of meger living but the kid of meger that has security in where dinner will come from and the rent being paid, in full, on time. That is not a big magic thing, normal people do it all the time. I am not mean or cruel to expect this.
> Maybe the threat of possible jail if he quits this job will be enough to get him to keep it. Just caring for his family was never enough...
> ...


Oh but it WAS magic, doncha know?!? He said "jump" and everybody did. He worked...or didn't and yet the roof didn't disappear, food landed in front of him and he still got toys! Poof! Magic, I tells ya!!

Now he gets to find out that you were the Wizard all along....


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

Oak said:


> Oh I like you...


Lol--thanks!


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## rome2012 (Sep 10, 2010)

Dear E.,

you must be reading here, because after writing about you saying good bye where you used to just walk out without a word, you stopped saying good bye again....:scratchhead:

So I wanted to say....thank you so much for doing all these things for me today, you were a great help !!!!

You don't have to read here anymore, cause I'm not going to write anymore....

Don't get any answers to my questions anyway .....

Stay safe at work please !!!!!!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Oak said:


> I am also 30. Except my peak was 12 years ago. F$%#!



:rofl:



LonelyNLost said:


> Wow, that's kind of funny, we are all around 30. I'm 32. We're still young, right?!


Yes we are!!! I do miss a steady sex partner but have found other ways to indulge myself.



AmImad said:


> I'm going to be 31 on Friday  I'm practically dust...


How is that I'm a yr yonger than you and still feel like I'm in my early 20s? MAD, listen to yourself. Stop being a Debbie Downer!!!!


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## AmImad (Jan 28, 2011)

Probably because I have 3 kids JB LOL!!


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## Crankshaw (Jan 12, 2011)

LonelyNLost said:


> Wow, that's kind of funny, we are all around 30. I'm 32. We're still young, right?!
> 
> I feel I must have hit some sort of peak. Sex is one of the things I miss the most about my H.


damn youngsters always think they at their peak


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## Crankshaw (Jan 12, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Yes we are!!!


No we aren't 



> I do miss a steady sex partner but have found other ways to indulge myself.


a steady what partner, guess I had better look that up on google 

BTW I am going on a date this weekend, so there


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## Shianne (Feb 5, 2011)

Yes I am old and I don't care! I'm still good... I could totally play well in the 40yr old male crowd... and they have just hit they age where they slow down a bit and do it right so I am good ... someday... I hope... lol


I feel ya on that one AmI... I have 3 too and I have given birth to 7... my body and soul have paid for all that life. I feel old lol but I feel GOOD. I have done good things. I am a good person. I made people... top that 

Sure my belly is squishy but I am healthy


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

I let H rope me into a text message war. He's PISSED that I emailed the ex gf's ex-husband. PISSED! Says I crossed a line, pushed him to the breaking point, and now the camel's back is broken. I'm hurting bad today. It's hard to have any hope that he'll snap out of this and realize what he's doing to me. He is so heartless and spineless at the moment. Says he kind of read my letter but it didn't seem real because it was written at the same time I was digging and snooping. I point out the fact that I snoop and dig because he is putting her needs before me. His big argument yesterday was that I made him look like a fool. And he had to answer questions from her and that I drag other people into this. He was such an @ss. I don't deserve this. At all.

He makes me beat myself up over my actions and they are all justified.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

He doesn't "make" you anything, Lonely. 

You are in control of your actions. 

If he wants to cry like a little p-ssy then let him


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## AmImad (Jan 28, 2011)

Shianne, I would of had 6  I feel old and tired and haggard and cranky and sore and... yeah you get the idea lol

I have a squishy belly c-section scar from all 3 bubbas, 2 scars on my left breast from cancer and now I have shingles, but hey I am still here, I am still looking after my gorgeous kids, on my own... he see's them for a few hours once a week... not even this weekend..

He doesn't have a clue whats going on with me, and I am not telling him anything. I am a good person too, far too good for him thats for sure.

I pray that one day in the not too distant future I can turn around and say "You've done us a favour" and I pray to everything holy that he is a miserable S.O.B who looks back with so much regret it kills him.


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## AmImad (Jan 28, 2011)

Lonely, H did the same thing with me, they lay the blame on us, so it makes them feel justified. xx


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

^ This x 10


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## Babyheart (Feb 9, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> ^ This x 10


Make it 20.


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## Crankshaw (Jan 12, 2011)

AmImad said:


> Shianne, I would of had 6  I feel old and tired and haggard and cranky and sore and... yeah you get the idea lol


you have not, stop starting rumors


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## Crankshaw (Jan 12, 2011)

Babyheart said:


> Make it 20.


30

(starting to sound like an auction!)


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

40 over here!


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## Crankshaw (Jan 12, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> 40 over here!


And the current winner is.....


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Sold!!!


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## Crankshaw (Jan 12, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Sold!!!


:rofl:


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

But when they lay blame on us, and feel justified, does that last forever? Do they ever realize they've wronged us? 

How can they promise to love and cherish us forever and then throw us to the curb? We are wanting it to work and they just don't care. Ultimate selfishness.


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## Crankshaw (Jan 12, 2011)

LonelyNLost said:


> But when they lay blame on us, and feel justified, does that last forever? Do they ever realize they've wronged us?
> 
> How can they promise to love and cherish us forever and then throw us to the curb? We are wanting it to work and they just don't care. Ultimate selfishness.


Does seem selfish, doesn't it, do they feel justified forever ? does it really matter ?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

What Crank said. They feel bad. They may not. But tehre is no point in waiting around wondering if they will.

Most waywards fall under two camps:
1.. Either they have been emotionally removed from their spouse lightyears ago so they are waaaay ahead in healing time than the left behind spouse

or

2. They are deeply involved in an affair. When this is the case, they do not at all feel the consequences of their actions because they are high on the "lovey high school" feelings from the affair. It's only til the "new" wears off and they come down from the high that that realize the gravity of what they've done.

And by then you have long moved on.

As for them diverting the blame to the left behind spouse--all waywards HAVE to do this. It's the only reason they can justify their horrible actions. It's the only way that keeps them from grasping what they have done,. They have you made the scapegoat of all of their problems. That is where the "scorched earth" thing comes in. They have to demonize you in order to paint themselves as patron saints.

As for folks walking out on committments such as marriage -- Idk. I think it takes someone who was never really committed in the first place to do that. Like the committment and attachment meant a lot less to them than it did for the left behind spouse. 

This is all just my opinion.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Regardless it hurts. I know my H loved me with all his heart at least a year ago. He was committed to us and would do anything for me. But I think this ex gf from high school got her claws into him before I fully suspected. She just makes him feel good about himself so he's minimized our marriage. 

He doesn't blame me in the direct sense, since he won't even admit to the EA. But he says I drove him away with all my suspicions. One of these days I'll make a list of the red flags and see how many people believe that his friendship is "innocent". Pffft.


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## Crankshaw (Jan 12, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> As for folks walking out on committments such as marriage -- Idk. I think it takes someone who was never really committed in the first place to do that. Like the committment and attachment meant a lot less to them than it did for the left behind spouse.
> 
> This is all just my opinion.


have to agree to this  If only I had know 20 years ago, oh well, live and learn I guess!


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## AmImad (Jan 28, 2011)

Heart is breaking today, I don't want him to move away, I want him to come home. I want to talk to him, I am sobbing my heart out. It's my birthday tomorrow he should be here.


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## Babyheart (Feb 9, 2011)

It does hurt. I found a letter from my husband, he had written it 6 weeks before he left. 6 BLOODY WEEKS!! Nice heartfelt, love letter about how wonderful I was, and how he loved me so much. 

Then in the blink of an eye, he does that. WTH??!! I think that is what is so painful, the fact that it all changed so fast, and you wonder how much of it is/was lies.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Babyheart said:


> It does hurt. I found a letter from my husband, he had written it 6 weeks before he left. 6 BLOODY WEEKS!! Nice heartfelt, love letter about how wonderful I was, and how he loved me so much.
> 
> Then in the blink of an eye, he does that. WTH??!! I think that is what is so painful, the fact that it all changed so fast, and you wonder how much of it is/was lies.


That's how I feel. This all happened in a blink of an eye. And he's freaked out about me trying to get to the bottom of it?


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## Shianne (Feb 5, 2011)

Well he stayed away until 1am. Then he called and I answered. I hung up on him once and he called right back and I let him have his say. I told him that talking to me about his gripes at this point before he even sees how to work on his problems is going to give me more I have to get over and more resent to recover from but he talked anyway. He ran himself totally out of money and has a week before payday. Now he wants a short term loan until his payday of $100. He wants me to short my rent to give it him and he will pay me back on the 7th when he also gives me money for child support. He says that I am trying to punish him by not giving it to him. Thing is I can't decide. I could give it to him. My landlord couldn't care less. I have access to his paycheck and could easily take it back and my child support money. He says that next round he will be smarter. I have sheltered him from his own undoing for better than a decade so I am sure he is shocked but I have to admit I dont think he is going to do any better. 
So to not give it would be on principle. To teach him, but if he can't get to work I lose big time. But he knows that... so I fear an ongoing problem. Do I allow for a learning curve? I am not good at being a ***** at all. He is so clueless, he can't be this stupid... so it must be a game... or is it?...
I kept it shorter than I have been and told him I would not answer until Friday. I said no contact today.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Babyheart said:


> It does hurt. I found a letter from my husband, he had written it 6 weeks before he left. 6 BLOODY WEEKS!! Nice heartfelt, love letter about how wonderful I was, and how he loved me so much.
> 
> Then in the blink of an eye, he does that. WTH??!! I think that is what is so painful, the fact that it all changed so fast, and you wonder how much of it is/was lies.


Ugh. It's really sick the way waywards think.

I just moved about two weeks ago and in cleaning out some of my nightstands I found a card he gave me for our wedding anniversary, my most favorite one he ever gave me. It's the one I used to keep on my nightstand every day. It said 

_To my Wife--I plan on loving you the only way I know how...forever._

Well forever ended yesterday when I signed his divorce papers.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> Ugh. It's really sick the way waywards think.
> 
> I just moved about two weeks ago and in cleaning out some of my nightstands I found a card he gave me for our wedding anniversary, my most favorite one he ever gave me. It's the one I used to keep on my nightstand every day. It said
> 
> ...


It really makes me ill. Makes sense why my H changed his tune back in December when I showed him our handwritten vows and wedding day cards, that he cried and decided that he wanted to make us work. 3 weeks later he was in the same town as her, and when he came home things collapsed.  I even MADE him 7 homemade love letter type cards to take with him on his trip and read one per day. How could he do this to me? It's the biggest stab in the heart I could ever imagine. I don't know how I can ever give a man my heart again. It seems anyone is capable of doing this.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Anyone IS capable of it. Sick thought, right?


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## Oak (Mar 21, 2011)

Trusting someone is what makes love possible. What is crazy is that having gone through this in our own unique way, ALL of us will eventually give that trust again in some form or fashion. 

Next time (with the W or with someone new) I just want to remind myself not to take anything for granted!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Oak said:


> What is crazy is that having gone through this in our own unique way, ALL of us will eventually give that trust again in some form or fashion.


Agreed. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger


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## Babyheart (Feb 9, 2011)

Oak;287048
Next time (with the W or with someone new) I just want to remind myself not to take anything for granted![/QUOTE said:


> :iagree:


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> Agreed. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger


I guess what I struggle with, is that if my marriage fails, what have I learned? Really, what have I learned? What has he learned? That he should ever get married because he can't be emotionally faithful to someone? I've learned a lot here and by reading books and going to counseling, so I've learned a lot in that regards. But what mistake did I make in all this? 

I guess if you ask turnera, she'll say that I'm a nagging, controlling, horrible to be around wife. But I tend to disagree.  As does everyone who hears my story and knows me personally. The one comment I get from EVERYONE is, "Wow, you are stronger than you get credit for. You also have unbelievable self-control. Can't believe you've been putting up with this for this long." Even my H has told me that!


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## Babyheart (Feb 9, 2011)

You will have learned that you are stronger that you ever thought was possible, and there is nothing you could not do if you set your mind to it. 

I really don't know though. For me, I am sad that it came to this, I thought he would always have my back. I don't want to lose that trust in the ones I love. I don't want to be bitter & angry. I think in many ways I am now getting back to me, the person I used to be before kids came along, except now I am better because of what I have gone through in my life. Perhaps thats what this was all about?


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## Oak (Mar 21, 2011)

LonelyNLost said:


> I guess what I struggle with, is that if my marriage fails, what have I learned? Really, what have I learned? What has he learned? That he should ever get married because he can't be emotionally faithful to someone? I've learned a lot here and by reading books and going to counseling, so I've learned a lot in that regards. But what mistake did I make in all this?
> 
> I guess if you ask turnera, she'll say that I'm a nagging, controlling, horrible to be around wife. But I tend to disagree.  As does everyone who hears my story and knows me personally. The one comment I get from EVERYONE is, "Wow, you are stronger than you get credit for. You also have unbelievable self-control. Can't believe you've been putting up with this for this long." Even my H has told me that!


Well, I guess for me it's about learning not to cater to my worst personality traits. 

For example: Controlling is on my list too, and although I don't think that word defines me as a person, I will admit that I tend to want things "my way."

Before this I would have said "Well my way is the RIGHT way because A, B, and C." At least now I see that having facts to back up my opinion doesn't change another persons emotions about THEIR opinion. 

If I can only remember these things the next time I feel sure my relationships will be stronger.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Babyheart said:


> You will have learned that you are stronger that you ever thought was possible, and there is nothing you could not do if you set your mind to it.
> 
> I really don't know though. For me, I am sad that it came to this, I thought he would always have my back. I don't want to lose that trust in the ones I love. I don't want to be bitter & angry. I think in many ways I am now getting back to me, the person I used to be before kids came along, except now I am better because of what I have gone through in my life. Perhaps thats what this was all about?


I don't know. I guess you're right but it does pain me badly. The only thing I can't accomplish if I set my mind to it is saving my marriage. But that takes two. I will not be second choice. I'm thinking about telling him that. I was only 18 when I met H. I guess I haven't lived. I look forward to that, but I doubt it's fun to be single at 32-33.  Is my fish still out there? Will he love and care for my children? And then I think of how painful it will be to see MY husband with someone else. And my kids around someone else. My kids will help him get women because they get so much attention. But for me, I don't think it works that way. 

I am broken, and having a really hard time getting off the ground. The knot in my stomach is horrible today. But I look good. Wearing a really cute dress and some heels. I'll see him tonight when he drops the kids off. Not sure what to say, if anything. Doubt he'll try to talk to me. But if he does, I'll just tell him that "I won't be disrespected and spoken at, when he has calmed down and chooses to speak to me like his wife should be spoken to, I will be here to listen."


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

LonelyNLost said:


> I guess what I struggle with, is that if my marriage fails, what have I learned? Really, what have I learned? What has he learned? That he should ever get married because he can't be emotionally faithful to someone?


Don't worry about his lessons. Worry about yours. You are far too enmeshed emotionally to see your situation objectively right now, Lonely. And tha's ok too. You're in the thick of it which is not making you view things practically. As for being single sucking... you only feel that way cause you have been in a relationship basically you'r eentire adult life with your H. 18 is young as hell! You are not who you were at 18 at all. You have basically never been a single adult before that is why it's so mind-boggling to you and mystifying. 




Babyheart said:


> I really don't know though. For me, I am sad that it came to this, I thought he would always have my back. I don't want to lose that trust in the ones I love. I don't want to be bitter & angry. I think in many ways I am now getting back to me, the person I used to be before kids came along, except now I am better because of what I have gone through in my life. Perhaps thats what this was all about?


I like this.

For me, I've learned marriage is a total compromise. I've learned I need to listen to my gut and put on the brakes when something isn't ok. To not give so much of myself to the point where I'm not getting my needs met. To listen more to my partner. To not take things for granted. To know when to walk away.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> Don't worry about his lessons. Worry about yours. You are far too enmeshed emotionally to see your situation objectively right now, Lonely. And tha's ok too. You're in the thick of it which is not making you view things practically. As for being single sucking... you only feel that way cause you have been in a relationship basically you'r eentire adult life with your H. 18 is young as hell! You are not who you were at 18 at all. You have basically never been a single adult before that is why it's so mind-boggling to you and mystifying.


I know, you're right. I just feel so old. And tied down. Like how would I ever get out and meet someone. But I guess I'll learn that I don't need a man.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Ugh. He just sent me this email. 


Hey, I am missing the kids and was wondering if I could have them 
Sunday overnight and take T to school and K to daycare Monday. 
Let me know if this is something that we can work out. I know that you 
would miss them but I would like to have some time with them too.


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## AmImad (Jan 28, 2011)

Dear H,

We really missed you today, the kids loved Hop, you should have heard their giggles! 
Mum and Dad took us out for dinner and they behaved beautifully, I was so proud of them, Myá cried for you..... why did you have to do this to our family? We were so happy once.. I want the hate and anger to consume me, so I can just move on... You're going to miss out on days like this all the time... you're not going to see them grow up... I hope you can live with yourself.


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## rome2012 (Sep 10, 2010)

AmImad said:


> Dear H,
> 
> We really missed you today, the kids loved Hop, you should have heard their giggles!
> Mum and Dad took us out for dinner and they behaved beautifully, I was so proud of them, Myá cried for you..... why did you have to do this to our family? We were so happy once.. I want the hate and anger to consume me, so I can just move on... You're going to miss out on days like this all the time... you're not going to see them grow up... I hope you can live with yourself.


Where is the hug smiley ???

{{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}

Sad thing is....they don't think that far....they are being selfish and only think about themselves....

You are a beautiful woman and there will be this man in your life who will treat you with the respect and love you deserve.....I'm sure of it !!!!!

Some have to kiss a couple of frogs before they find their prince.....

XOXO


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

Shianne said:


> Well he stayed away until 1am. Then he called and I answered. I hung up on him once and he called right back and I let him have his say. I told him that talking to me about his gripes at this point before he even sees how to work on his problems is going to give me more I have to get over and more resent to recover from but he talked anyway. He ran himself totally out of money and has a week before payday. Now he wants a short term loan until his payday of $100. He wants me to short my rent to give it him and he will pay me back on the 7th when he also gives me money for child support. He says that I am trying to punish him by not giving it to him. Thing is I can't decide. I could give it to him. My landlord couldn't care less. I have access to his paycheck and could easily take it back and my child support money. He says that next round he will be smarter. I have sheltered him from his own undoing for better than a decade so I am sure he is shocked but I have to admit I dont think he is going to do any better.
> So to not give it would be on principle. To teach him, but if he can't get to work I lose big time. But he knows that... so I fear an ongoing problem. Do I allow for a learning curve? I am not good at being a ***** at all. He is so clueless, he can't be this stupid... so it must be a game... or is it?...
> I kept it shorter than I have been and told him I would not answer until Friday. I said no contact today.


Just popped in and read whole thread. What did you end up doing?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shianne (Feb 5, 2011)

well, he ended up just showing me that he is an entitled prick...

Seriously though. He called and texted and kept on the whole he cant understand why I won't. I get better at hanging up now I need to learn not to answer. He is very certain I am attacking him out od spite and to "teach him a lesson". I am not, I just need money to pay rent for me and the children to have a stable place to live. I know this is not a priority with him but it is with me. So is food and electricity and running water. Bills should be paid! Why is that so unthinkable to him. It is as if he cares nothing for the kids...
Friday morning I checked the balance to confirm the deposit. There was a refund that had been there for 2 weeks lol I had no idea but he did get different net service and had used that card (i didn't know that either...) so I figured yay! I don't have to feel guilt he will have $60 and I don't have to take any money away from my budget. I put it on his card and tell him. I get moans about how it is not enough... cut that convo right off and went shopping. He went on and on as much as I would let him via text and call but I kept it short. Then last night he says in one of these calls. He is so bored and has to sit on the computer all day. I say (ya I was a bit snappy I admit) I would love a turn on the computer, or just to be able to clean the living room. He says he would come over and play outside withthe kids so I could have a minute. I say that would be awesome. Just come over and they are outside and you can play and I will clean and we will keep it light. Not to replace Sunday dinner just a light visit. He says no he doesn't want to makes him too sad. I say fine, gotta go and play with the kids. 

I do and am out in the yard when the phone rings again, about an hour later. It is him saying "is it cool if I change my mind?" I say well ya I suppose since we have quite a bit of daylight left, then I look and he is already here... f*@ker. The kids run over and say hi. I try to smile. He comes in and tries to talk our son into staying in the house!!!! My babe had my back and dragged him right out  I stuck my head out and said "cool, you have this then?" he sadly said "yeah but it's cold" 
I went in and started cleaning, my living room had the leavins of the days cardboard creations, a fleet of lego space ships... etc 
I lack faith so I am checking out the window often. He did not play he stood on the sidewalk, watching. Never put a foot in the field that I saw and I know he can throw a football. sad 
I keep cleaning. Son gets thirsty and comes in for a drink. He SITS RIGHT DOWN! sulking...Son goes right back out and I have to say to him "are you still on that or are we done?" He says yeah, I'm on it. The tone you would swear I had just asked him to go to the opera lol
He tries this move again when they came in and I even gave him leftovers to show that it was time to leave in a nice way. He got in a dig in front of the kids about how I was making him go... a$$hole 
and still I had to say flat out "this is not supposed to be deep and was for the kids, I will see you tomorrow" He left in a big huff, then came back in a big huff to say bye to son (said he forgot) then left in the same huff.
Then texts he is not coming tomorrow (Sunday, today). Then texts love. Then facebooks love and apoligies and more and I am really hoping he doesn't come today but I bet he will....

There is so much more but this is a freaking novel!! Taht was just a 12 hour period.
He can't stop abusing me in one way or another. I need to learn now how to not pick up the phone...


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

Shianne said:


> well, he ended up just showing me that he is an entitled prick...
> 
> Seriously though. He called and texted and kept on the whole he cant understand why I won't. I get better at hanging up now I need to learn not to answer. He is very certain I am attacking him out od spite and to "teach him a lesson". I am not, I just need money to pay rent for me and the children to have a stable place to live. I know this is not a priority with him but it is with me. So is food and electricity and running water. Bills should be paid! Why is that so unthinkable to him. It is as if he cares nothing for the kids...
> Friday morning I checked the balance to confirm the deposit. There was a refund that had been there for 2 weeks lol I had no idea but he did get different net service and had used that card (i didn't know that either...) so I figured yay! I don't have to feel guilt he will have $60 and I don't have to take any money away from my budget. I put it on his card and tell him. I get moans about how it is not enough... cut that convo right off and went shopping. He went on and on as much as I would let him via text and call but I kept it short. Then last night he says in one of these calls. He is so bored and has to sit on the computer all day. I say (ya I was a bit snappy I admit) I would love a turn on the computer, or just to be able to clean the living room. He says he would come over and play outside withthe kids so I could have a minute. I say that would be awesome. Just come over and they are outside and you can play and I will clean and we will keep it light. Not to replace Sunday dinner just a light visit. He says no he doesn't want to makes him too sad. I say fine, gotta go and play with the kids.
> ...


At least you put your foot down re: money. I too have an ex that was a boundary pusher and thought nothing of using kids to see me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AmImad (Jan 28, 2011)

Arrrgh having a hard time today  He is going to send me his 'new' address.. he's texted asked how the kids and I are... normally he doesn't ask about me  He doesn't love me or want me, why send me bloody texts?!


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## Shianne (Feb 5, 2011)

I agree AmI...
why can't they just be consistant?!?
I get sweet and awesome, then rage and entitlement, and right back to sweet.
The sweet really hurt yesterday. Trying not to feel crazy but I sure do... I cry this morning because he was nice?... no... I cry because I don't trust it's not a game but I want to so bad...


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Mine has turned into a full fledge jackass. Spineless, heartless, coward. COWARD! Hasn't even sat down with me and said he can't do this anymore, he wants a divorce. Instead he texts everything but those words, and then yesterday leaves paperwork for figuring out custody in my car after he picks the kids up for the night. Oh, and he's filled them all out asking for 50/50! Um, I don't think so!


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