# Did I give my husband a **** test?



## Penny905 (Mar 28, 2014)

1 YEAR LATER, UPDATED


I don't think so, and I don't want to be that person. Maybe I owe him an apology

A little background:

We have a campground April til November and go a lot of weekends. We have a park model, been there 20 years. My husband is very social I'm more of an introvert. He loves the group gatherings/meals which happen every weekend, me not so much. He thrives on trying new recipes for the other campers and I call him the happy wonderer. There have been a few incidents with other people that make me feel invisible. There has also been a bit of drama this past two years. In the beginning of September I told him, I'm done, I'm not going anymore. I told him, I don't expect him to give it up, but I won't be joining him. I like some lazy days at home.

One weekend when I was fried, he came home on Sunday and asked me what my problem was. I explained that I really hadn't spent time with him since Wednesday, (He played poker Thursday and went straight to camp after work Friday) I don't mind him going but I was sorry but I'm not going to jump up to greet him and be all warm and fuzzy. It will take a little bit once he is home for me to warm up. (It's not like he was away for work) 

So here is the questionable part:
He has gone every weekend since the beginning of September, except one. Some weekends it would be Friday to Sunday, other weekends it would be Saturday afternoon to Sunday. Last weekend when he came home, he was telling me what he planed for Friday and Saturday there. Ok, fine. Then Thursday night he saw the weather forcast had rain for Friday night and Saturday. He said how about if I stay home and we go to the Comedy Club, a movie something. I said no go to the campground. Yesterday when he came home, I wasn't warm and fuzzy. He again asked me what my problem was, he offered to stay home Friday and do something with me. I told him that I wouldn't have done anything with him if he even did stay home after the way it happened because I felt like a back-up plan. I wasn't good enough to do something with until he saw he would be camping in the rain. That's when the screaming started. Do I owe him an apology??


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Your relationship is very strange,you spend every weekend apart.
Do you even like each other?


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## BigDigg (Jan 11, 2018)

Technically not a **** test (which is about him). This is a comfort test (which is about you). You feel somewhat unloved and plan B to him. Do you owe him an apology? Well I can't say but acting pissy and passive aggressive and cold usually won't be effective even if it feels cathartic to you. You may feel justified in it but this won't make him *want* to spend more time with you (what you want, right?). 

For the record I don't think your husband is being fair here and you're right to feel upset that he isn't attentive to your needs or the relationship. The question is what should you do to properly convey this that will lead to a positive outcome?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

He wants to go and he wants you to be happy about it. Unfortunately, the frequency is ridiculous, so you can't be happy. He wants his cake and eat it. If he went once a month, I could understand, but every weekend? How can you be happy about that? Sh!t test? I think he is feeling guilty about it and he wants your approval to be a d!ck-head...


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Penny905 said:


> I don't think so, and I don't want to be that person. Maybe I owe him an apology
> 
> A little background:
> 
> ...


Whatever it is you are passive aggressive. You would do better to tell your husband how you feel and work on it. He isn't going to just magically get that you resent his time away from you especially when you send him on his way. I think you have a right to want to spend more time with him, it's just your execution isn't really going to make that happen. 

You mention that there were times that you felt invisible did you ever say that to him? Most people are just not good at picking this stuff up, they are just not that socially intelligent. You need to say what you want and let them react. It doesn't make them love you any less because they are not good at reading exactly how you are feeling, just makes them less intuitive. The real question will come when you tell him you feel invisible and need to spend more time with him. Judge him on that.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

I think yes but more importantly you need to find a compromise to this situation. I get you feeling left behind, but you decided to stay home and told him it is fine to go on his own. Us husbands usually take our wives words literally on things like this. Sometimes we get lucky with the mind reading sometimes we're oblivious. 

You've been going to this campground for 20 years, and all of a sudden you want to stop but he still really enjoys it and wants to keep going, it's an important part of his life. On the other hand you've had a great run for 20 years and maybe it's time for something new that you both enjoy. 

Is there a middle ground, maybe 1/3 of the time you go with him and enjoy the outdoors, fresh air and relax while he soaks up the social scene, 1/3 of the time you stay home and he goes but during those weeks he spends some extra time with you on date nights and stuff like that, and 1/3 of the time he skips the campground and you to find some stuff to do closer to home to allow him some social energy.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Penny905 said:


> I don't mind him going
> I'm not going to jump up to greet him and be all warm and fuzzy.
> (It's not like he was away for work)


The truth is, you resent hell out of his extroversion, and not "jumping up" means you want to punish him for having a different temperament set than you.

It's ok if he is away for "work" - meaning, if he is doing something which benefits you, it's ok. But he's not allowed to do something to recharge his batteries.....



BigDigg said:


> The question is what should you do to properly convey this that will lead to a positive outcome?


There's an old saying "...you'll get more flies with honey than with vinegar...." .... you are hurting your cause by your behavior. 

What will lead to a positive outcome is to forget about apologies, and "jump up".


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

It sounds like your relationship is at risk for becoming emotionally detached, if it isn't already. Men generally have a lower need for emotional connection, which is why he can be away and then expect everything to be all lovey-dovey when he gets back. I suspect you need more of that emotional connection to be there before the warmth can come out.

I guess you can call it a **** test, but it sounds more like you're are sounding the alarm about a crisis in your marriage. Can this marriage survive if he spends 4 days a week away from you? Not many marriages would survive. The major issue is that you are incompatible in this fundamental area. I doubt he would be happy chilling out all the time and you don't sound happy doing social stuff all the time. Is there a happy medium?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Technically, the proper label would have been a loyalty test vs a ----test. 

You were testing to see if he'd choose you over camping. 

The problem here is you were passive aggressive about it and set him up for failure. 

It's time for both of you to wake up and realize that you have some serious marital issues and dysfunctions that you both need to come to terms with and address. 

You are both gaming each other and both using passive-aggressiveness to extort the other. This is leading to resentment, anger and bitterness on both sides and while you each try to gain the upper hand, your marriage is swirling down the toiler. 

If you play and game hard enough, you may come out on top in the end. 

But when things are getting flushed down the toilet, the top turd is still a turd and it gets flushed into the sewer just the same as all the rest. 

You can win the game here or you can have a reasonably happy and healthy marriage. You are each going to have to decide which it is that you want in the end.


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## Penny905 (Mar 28, 2014)

We have been married 31 years, together 35. The past 3 years have been rough beyond belief, so many trials and tribulations and it has left us in a real bad spot. Yes we love each other but I have been telling him for about a year I don't feel a connection and it scares me. Just trying to pull ourselves up from circling the drain. Yes I know time apart doesn't do that but we both recharge in totally different ways, him socially me alone time. I went to IC last year, I asked him to go to MC, he won't. 

Before September, I would go about everyother time, it hasn't always been him going alone every weekend. Trying to come up with a happy medium. Maybe as the one poster mentioned we could do it 1/3 camp together, 1/3 home together, 1/3 seperate. 



sokillme said:


> Whatever it is you are passive aggressive. You would do better to tell your husband how you feel and work on it. He isn't going to just magically get that you resent his time away from you especially when you send him on his way. I think you have a right to want to spend more time with him, it's just your execution isn't really going to make that happen.
> 
> You mention that there were times that you felt invisible did you ever say that to him? Most people are just not good at picking this stuff up, they are just not that socially intelligent. You need to say what you want and let them react. It doesn't make them love you any less because they are not good at reading exactly how you are feeling, just makes them less intuitive. The real question will come when you tell him you feel invisible and need to spend more time with him. Judge him on that.


I see how I was passive aggressive. I wasn't upset until he asked to go somewhere once he saw the weather. Should I have told him I wasn't going to be planB then? 

I have told him many times I feel invisable. It wasn't just him making me feel that way. He made extra effort when I would go there and I appreciate it, it didn't work. Picture taking a kid to the candy store but they can only window shop. Then freinds felt it was my fault for him not being around alot, which it was. I got tired of it.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Let me see if I understand this correctly. You guys have had weekend plans for 20 years. Now you want to change them for you and want him to go along with it or you will yell at him and try to make him miserable. Is this a correct assessment? What ever happened to proper communication. Did you tell him why you don't want to do it anymore, if you are willing to compromise, and what you wanted him to do, or did you expect to change the routine and then expect him to read your mind? What have you two actually discussed?


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

Are there any kids involved or are they grown up? Just wondering how that plays into the dynamic, if they would go camping too, if you have to watch them while he is gone or if it's a non-issue? Just wondering how that aspect is before I respond fully.


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

TJW said:


> Penny905 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't mind him going
> ...


^this^


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Penny905 said:


> We have been married 31 years, together 35. The past 3 years have been rough beyond belief, so many trials and tribulations and it has left us in a real bad spot. Yes we love each other but I have been telling him for about a year I don't feel a connection and it scares me. Just trying to pull ourselves up from circling the drain. Yes I know time apart doesn't do that but we both recharge in totally different ways, him socially me alone time. I went to IC last year, I asked him to go to MC, he won't.
> 
> Before September, I would go about everyother time, it hasn't always been him going alone every weekend. Trying to come up with a happy medium. Maybe as the one poster mentioned we could do it 1/3 camp together, 1/3 home together, 1/3 seperate.
> 
> ...


I think you can use this situation as a way to reconnect. If you both make a commitment to be understanding of each others needs and approach the solution with good communication and a best for us goal instead of a best for me goal. I get where you're both coming from. I'm probably 55% extrovert and 45% introvert. I can go to a party and have a great time talking to lots of people friends and strangers alike, but it does drain me and I need quite down time to recharge. I need to be in the mood to be very social so I get your wanting/needing to have down time to yourself. But I also do enjoy the socializing and get a lot out of it so I can see how your husband being an extrovert needs this also. 

If you can navigate this both with empathy for each other and a genuine desire for the other to be happy you'll remind yourselves they you each are part of us and the us is most important. Communication is key and by communicating well you'll understand each other better. 

Also find some more stuff you both enjoy doing together even it's it something completely new to you both.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Bananapeel said:


> Let me see if I understand this correctly. You guys have had weekend plans for 20 years. Now you want to change them for you and want him to go along with it or you will yell at him and try to make him miserable. Is this a correct assessment? What ever happened to proper communication. Did you tell him why you don't want to do it anymore, if you are willing to compromise, and what you wanted him to do, or did you expect to change the routine and then *expect him to read your mind*? What have you two actually discussed?


OP has said:

*I have been telling him for about a year I don't feel a connection and it scares me

I have told him many times I feel invisable*


So, I think they have discussed things... :laugh:


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## Penny905 (Mar 28, 2014)

Bananapeel said:


> Let me see if I understand this correctly. You guys have had weekend plans for 20 years. Now you want to change them for you and want him to go along with it or you will yell at him and try to make him miserable. Is this a correct assessment? What ever happened to proper communication. Did you tell him why you don't want to do it anymore, if you are willing to compromise, and what you wanted him to do, or did you expect to change the routine and then expect him to read your mind? What have you two actually discussed?


Not exactly. We would go about 3 times a month, once in a while I wouldn't go or he would go on Friday, I would go on Saturday. After our son's accident, I know I changed. I wasn't going much because I was too burned out and needed to recharge. I am less tolerant, hate drama and have a need for solitude. I really don't have a problem with him going, maybe my problem is he is going everyweekend. My problem this time was he wanted to change his plans to include me because he was rained out. Yes that made me feel like Plan B. I don't expect him to read my mind, I just want him to understand my words. I have told him about being invisible, I have told him about how I feel when I go. He has told me "you are too sensative" "you take things too personal" "you overthink everything" and "you need to let things go".


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Not a **** test. But you should've told him you felt like plan b due to the weather. You were passive aggressive. He should not be gone every weekend without you for 3 months good grief!!!


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

As an extrovert married to an introvert, my opinion is that what you are doing is not going to work.
One of theses things is likely to happen.
He will give in to your demands, sell his recreational assets and stay home with you. He will resent you for it, grow restless and leave.
He will give in to your demands, successfully transition to homebody lifestyle. You will find the "new" him boring and you will leave him.
He will reject your demands, and strengthen his ties with friends until one of them replaces you.

What do you REALLY want?


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## Penny905 (Mar 28, 2014)

SentHereForAReason said:


> Are there any kids involved or are they grown up? Just wondering how that plays into the dynamic, if they would go camping too, if you have to watch them while he is gone or if it's a non-issue? Just wondering how that aspect is before I respond fully.


All kids are adults now 20, 22, 25, 26, 28 with 2 at home. This doesn't accurately give the right impression. The oldest has been going through issues for the past 3 years. He was injured at work, with 60 days in trauma unit. He just had his 21st surgery last month. 10 days later he ended up with an infection in surgical site. He was admitted in to hospital where they opened his wound and left it open. He just finished up with 4 weeks of a visiting nurse coming daily.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Mr. Nail said:


> What do you REALLY want?


I think she wants him to try and understand, not to go every single weekend, spend more time with her and not treat her as a Plan B when it's raining. Not difficult. I can feel detachment because he doesn't think it's a problem. It is for her. But he is burying his head in the sand.


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## BigDigg (Jan 11, 2018)

OK Penny...I think you see and get that this is about way more than just the camping. That's just the symptom of your declining marriage and a canary in the coal mine. I think you see this and have tried to communicate overtly but seems like your husband isn't on the same page. 

Let me ask you a question. And before you read it please know i'm not placing blame or calling you out or saying you are solely responsible for the state of your marriage. Everyone knows it's a two way street. The question is this: What value (in your own words) do you bring to your husband? In effect - other than having been together forever and having a marriage contract - what about you excites him *today* and makes him want to spend time with you?

I think your husband is being unreasonable and selfish here on the camping thing, yet by your own words you sound checked out and passionless. I know your son's accident plays into that and that's so hard. But sympathy, excuses and rationale aside are you the kind of person that your husband should want to spend time with these days? Are you fun? Loving? Interesting? Willing to do fun things? The truth is that people spend their time where they find the most value. Marriage as a contract cannot make people desire certain things (be it sex or time spent together). Your long marriage and ups and downs and shared experiences should *add* to your love and not subtract from it. Getting my point? Be honest with yourself here...


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

What happened at camp that made you not want to go there anymore? 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Penny905 (Mar 28, 2014)

Mr. Nail said:


> As an extrovert married to an introvert, my opinion is that what you are doing is not going to work.
> One of theses things is likely to happen.
> He will give in to your demands, sell his recreational assets and stay home with you. He will resent you for it, grow restless and leave.
> He will give in to your demands, successfully transition to homebody lifestyle. You will find the "new" him boring and you will leave him.
> ...


You are absolutely correct. He told me last year we could sell it. I wouldn't let him because I know he needs this outlet. With the way it has been the past two months, it is like his friends there have replace his family. Thank you for putting in to words my feelings.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Penny another area where our situation lines up. Your relationship with your husband is transitioning to empty nest. This is something I have also been going through. You are redefining what has been the definition of your relationship for 28 years. Now your kids are responsible for their own life decisions and you have more time available. You can choose how to use that time. One choice that I see all too often is to try to cling to the parent role and get very involved in your adult children's lives. Another Choice is to continue your hobbies or even expand them, trying to maintain the image that nothing has changed. A popular and frequently happy choice is to find new things to do together. To do the last you have to accept that your relationship is changed and it can not be what it was. That can be stressful. 

Essentially you have a choice, embrace the change, or have the change forced on you. 

My youngest is also 20. I also have 2 at home. The irish twins in the middle.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Sorry to hear about your son, I hope things can get remedied for him soon.

I'm going to go against the grain a bit and say YES you are giving him a **** test. Reason being, my understanding of a **** test is one he can't win no matter what he chooses ( a little more to it than that but...), and you have put him in that spot. You had a nice routine for 20 years and just because you decide you don't like it you expect for him to go along with you, and do so with limited to no communication. I've been on his side of this, although with something more life-altering, and it is very frustrating. If he goes along he won't be true to himself in doing so. He offered to stay because of the rain, but that wasn't good enough for you. Maybe you should have taken him up on it and had enough fun that maybe he'd want to stay when it's sunny next time. If you're cool with him being miserable, but at your disposal then carry on with the passive aggression. It might eventually wear him down, but how long will it be before @Mr. Nail s post above comes to fruition?


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

In Absentia said:


> OP has said:
> 
> *I have been telling him for about a year I don't feel a connection and it scares me
> 
> ...


That's not a discussion. That's a complaint. A discussion is when they both spend time reflecting on what they both want and talk about their options and how they want to proceed.


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## musicftw07 (Jun 23, 2016)

He goes camping and spends time with friends, and doesn't see you for a few days. By your own admission when he arrives home you are not "lovey dovey" to him after this time apart, which I interpret as you being cold and distant. When he tries to compromise to do something you want, you get passive aggressive and yell at him.

If that is what I came home to, I would spend as much time away as I could too. Just sayin.

You're not making it easier for him to choose you because it sounds like you're not much fun to be around.

Yes, I think he does spend too much time away. Yes, I think you have legitimate complaints. Yes, I think there's more he could do to help you two reconnect. But I'm not going to point the finger entirely at him when your behavior could be a driving factor in him choosing to spend so much time away in the first place.

The onus for you two to reconnect is not entirely on him. You have to try just as much as he does. You have to examine your own behavior and make healthier choices just as much as he does. I'm not saying you haven't tried before, I'm just saying that it takes two to tango.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Yes, you set him up to fail
You are being passive aggressive.

You don't just owe him an apology, you owe him a behavior change. You sound petulant and manipulative.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

personofinterest said:


> Yes, you set him up to fail
> You are being passive aggressive.
> 
> You don't just owe him an apology, you owe him a behavior change. You sound petulant and manipulative.


agreed.

she claims to desire "solitude" (and gets it) and then turns around and admittedly is *****y when he gets home.

sorry....but if your needed time alone was what your really desired, you would be happy to see him when he comes back home.

another poster suggested you are pushing him away...and I would bet this to be the case.


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## Penny905 (Mar 28, 2014)

BigDigg said:


> OK Penny...I think you see and get that this is about way more than just the camping. That's just the symptom of your declining marriage and a canary in the coal mine. I think you see this and have tried to communicate overtly but seems like your husband isn't on the same page.
> 
> Let me ask you a question. And before you read it please know i'm not placing blame or calling you out or saying you are solely responsible for the state of your marriage. Everyone knows it's a two way street. The question is this: What value (in your own words) do you bring to your husband? In effect - other than having been together forever and having a marriage contract - what about you excites him *today* and makes him want to spend time with you?
> 
> I think your husband is being unreasonable and selfish here on the camping thing, yet by your own words you sound checked out and passionless. I know your son's accident plays into that and that's so hard. But sympathy, excuses and rationale aside are you the kind of person that your husband should want to spend time with these days? Are you fun? Loving? Interesting? Willing to do fun things? The truth is that people spend their time where they find the most value. Marriage as a contract cannot make people desire certain things (be it sex or time spent together). Your long marriage and ups and downs and shared experiences should *add* to your love and not subtract from it. Getting my point? Be honest with yourself here...


You're right, I'm not much fun to be around. My son's accident isn't an excuse, I have always been the Plain Jane. I have always done things to make sure we enjoy things together besides kids/family. I learned everything about football and watched faithfully. That worked for over 15 years, I still watch. Then he started on Nascar, I learned and watched.
That got old for him so I thought we could start doing Sunday dinners for the family with new recipes. Find the recipes, shop, cook and hang. That worked for a bit. We still have family dinners on Sunday but he does his experimenting at the campground now. He likes bars I hate them. I don't mind going for lunch or to see music but I won't go just to hang out. He likes poker, occasionally he will have a game at our house. I wont play but I'm an awesome host, with plenty of home made food. I just don't know where to go from here


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

Penny905 said:


> Not exactly. We would go about 3 times a month, once in a while I wouldn't go or he would go on Friday, I would go on Saturday. After our son's accident, I know I changed. I wasn't going much because I was too burned out and needed to recharge. I am less tolerant, hate drama and have a need for solitude. I really don't have a problem with him going, maybe my problem is he is going everyweekend. My problem this time was he wanted to change his plans to include me because he was rained out. Yes that made me feel like Plan B. I don't expect him to read my mind, I just want him to understand my words. I have told him about being invisible, I have told him about how I feel when I go. He has told me "you are too sensative" "you take things too personal" "you overthink everything" and "you need to let things go".


I'm thinking it is not really about the Plan B rainy weekend, but instead a gradual build-up of your resentment. Your cold shoulder on his return will have the opposite affect from what you want. You rightly feel 'diminished' by his attacking/rejecting your feelings. You are entitled to your feelings. This season is almost over. Now, you both need to calmly state your wants and feelings to each other and be respectful. I'm thinking he has already withdrawn and you 'feel' panicky about this. He chose you with your personality, looks, character. Honesty and respect are going to be necessary to do this work. Outside therapy would be good. Focus on positives, not negatives.


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## Penny905 (Mar 28, 2014)

Bananapeel said:


> That's not a discussion. That's a complaint. A discussion is when they both spend time reflecting on what they both want and talk about their options and how they want to proceed.



We have had discussions, which led us to our one solution that we tried the beginning of this season. Unfortunately it didn't work out. I posted this earlier in this thread:

"I have told him many times I feel invisable. It wasn't just him making me feel that way. He made extra effort when I would go there and I appreciate it, it didn't work. Picture taking a kid to the candy store but they can only window shop. Then freinds felt it was my fault for him not being around alot, which it was. I got tired of it. "


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

to succeed you both need to redefine the relationship in a way that fills both of your needs. It may take more than one try. 

I haven't nailed it down yet.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Penny905 said:


> You're right, I'm not much fun to be around. My son's accident isn't an excuse, I have always been the Plain Jane. I have always done things to make sure we enjoy things together besides kids/family. I learned everything about football and watched faithfully. That worked for over 15 years, I still watch. Then he started on Nascar, I learned and watched.
> That got old for him so I thought we could start doing Sunday dinners for the family with new recipes. Find the recipes, shop, cook and hang. That worked for a bit. We still have family dinners on Sunday but he does his experimenting at the campground now. He likes bars I hate them. I don't mind going for lunch or to see music but I won't go just to hang out. He likes poker, occasionally he will have a game at our house. I wont play but I'm an awesome host, with plenty of home made food. I just don't know where to go from here


Wow you are a trouper. I think it's time for your husband to step up to the plate and do activities you like to do. What would that look like?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

@Penny905

I don't think that what describe is any kind of test. Instead I think that your situation is one that's a classic case of two people not communicating well and not meeting each others needs.

The first thing you need to do is to work out what you really want and what you can and cannot live with. Then the two of you need to have a heart to heart talk. There are two books that I think would help you two work through this. 

"Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs". My suggestion is that you read the books in that order and of the work that they layout. Then, once you have worked through your part of this and know what you want, talk to your husband. See if he will read the books as well, then the two of you can do the work together. If he will not read them, at least you will have learned a lot about what you can ask for and how to ask it.

I think that you two can work through this and restructure your marriage is a way that meets both of your needs.

From what you wrote, the two of you are very disconnected emotionally. If you do not address this soon, it bodes badly for your marriage.

Also, one thing that comes to mind is that while you do not particularly enjoy the camping, would you consider doing it once in a while. Perhaps going once every month or two. If it were me, while I'm ok with my husband going on his own to do things, I would be concerned about him going to a very social activity just about every weekend without me. It's a situation that is ripe for an affair to develop.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Penny905 said:


> I don't think so, and I don't want to be that person. Maybe I owe him an apology
> 
> A little background:
> 
> ...


So, when you told him: " *In the beginning of September I told him, I'm done, I'm not going anymore. I told him, I don't expect him to give it up, but I won't be joining him. I like some lazy days at home.* you didn't really mean it? That you didn't want him to continue going to the camping ground every weekend? But didn't bother to tell him that, you wanted him to develop a hitherto absent telepathic ability to read your mind and discern that what you said was the exact opposite of what you meant? :scratchhead:

What do you actually want from your husband and your marriage? And have you told him what that is?


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## Penny905 (Mar 28, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> So, when you told him: " *In the beginning of September I told him, I'm done, I'm not going anymore. I told him, I don't expect him to give it up, but I won't be joining him. I like some lazy days at home.* you didn't really mean it? That you didn't want him to continue going to the camping ground every weekend? But didn't bother to tell him that, you wanted him to develop a hitherto absent telepathic ability to read your mind and discern that what you said was the exact opposite of what you meant? :scratchhead:
> 
> What do you actually want from your husband and your marriage? And have you told him what that is?


I told him not to give it up, I know he enjoys it and I didn't want him to resent me. I really do enjoy some solitude. 
I'm not sure who mentioned that I said it would be different if he was working, which it would be. Not for the reason suggested, him making money. It would be different because he didn't choose to go to work. Through this post I am coming to realize that I really don't mind him going, I do mind him going every single weekend. I want him to choose me once in a while, not just because it rained.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Penny905 said:


> I want him to choose me once in a while


Right now, it sounds like you each have your own hobbies and don't really enjoy doing things together. Just like you want him to do your hobbies, he wants you to do his. But not only just do them, but to enjoy them. It's clear that camping is something he really enjoys, but you struggle with. If you only go 1-2 times per month, try to make the best of it at that time. Have a great time and he'll be happy you're there. Then when you want him to spend time with you, he'll be more likely to want to your hobbies. 

There's another marriage website that has something called Plan A, where you try to be the best spouse you can. This helps re-ignite the love and desire in your spouse that may be missing. Right now, you guys sound a little snippy towards each other, and you both may actually be pulling away to avoid that negative energy. Why spend time together when it's just going to be a chore? Instead, make the time together really enjoyable so that he wants to spend more time together.

Yes, it is unfair that you have to do this hard work, but you're the one here. If you both were, I'd say you both need to make this effort. But even if he's not here, making improvements just on your side will set the foundation for a good recovery. Right now, there's likely a lot of animosity between you too that will sabotage any recovery. But if you can make things seem better, he will be more open to making changes in his behavior.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Penny905 said:


> I told him not to give it up, I know he enjoys it and I didn't want him to resent me. I really do enjoy some solitude.
> I'm not sure who mentioned that I said it would be different if he was working, which it would be. Not for the reason suggested, him making money. It would be different because he didn't choose to go to work. Through this post I am coming to realize that I really don't mind him going, I do mind him going every single weekend. I want him to choose me once in a while, not just because it rained.


OK, how about this? In an average month on two weekends he goes to the camping ground by himself. You go with him on one weekend, but on the fourth weekend, you and he do something together, not at the camping ground.

Could that work, do you think?


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Your H does need to compromise and spend time at home on the weekends with you. In short, enjoy the activities you like together. You enjoy what your H likes to do together. One sided weekend entertainment does not work.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Penny905 said:


> I told him not to give it up, I know he enjoys it and I didn't want him to resent me. I really do enjoy some solitude.
> I'm not sure who mentioned that I said it would be different if he was working, which it would be. Not for the reason suggested, him making money. It would be different because he didn't choose to go to work. Through this post I am coming to realize that I really don't mind him going, I do mind him going every single weekend. I want him to choose me once in a while, not just because it rained.


Again, compromise. You need to tell you H that some weekends are for you and your H to enjoy together doing an activity of your choice. You, in turn, go to the campsite every now and then.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Penny905 said:


> I see how I was passive aggressive. I wasn't upset until he asked to go somewhere once he saw the weather. Should I have told him I wasn't going to be planB then?
> 
> I have told him many times I feel invisable. It wasn't just him making me feel that way. He made extra effort when I would go there and I appreciate it, it didn't work. Picture taking a kid to the candy store but they can only window shop. Then freinds felt it was my fault for him not being around alot, which it was. I got tired of it.


First off check your phone. Sudden changes in spouses always cause me to say this. 

Anyway to your question YES you need to say something. At first I would say try to entreat him but if that doesn't work say something. Everything you have said should be said to him. Eventually you should get to the point of saying, hey what are we doing here? You have a right to say that. Only you know how do do that but presumably after so many years of marriage you should have some idea.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

@Mr. Nail has this spot on.

You two folks are never going to be very compatible. His whole life-definition is diametrically opposite to yours. He's not going to change, neither are you. This is a born-in personality trait set.

Best case scenario, you live your life, let him live his. You two can share the important things, fidelity, love, caring, providing for each other. The entertainment modes are just not going to fit well together. Just do it separately.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Penny905 said:


> My problem this time was he wanted to change his plans to include me because he was rained out. Yes that made me feel like Plan B.


So if he'd said "Oh crap, rained out, guess I'll be home after all. But I still won't do any stuff you like." you'd have been happy? I don't think so. You can say no thanks, but I don't get going off on him b/c he tried to make the best of a rainy day.

As others have said, you both need to work out some compromises, how many times he goes camping, how many times you do difft. other stuff. I think it is fine to have hobbies the other spouse isn't into and to spend some time apart, but when it is too much time it can stop being a marriage. If he really won't talk about this, marriage counselling might help. Sometimes a referee can convince him better than you can.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

SpinyNorman said:


> Penny905 said:
> 
> 
> > My problem this time was he wanted to change his plans to include me because he was rained out. Yes that made me feel like Plan B.
> ...


This


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## Penny905 (Mar 28, 2014)

SpinyNorman said:


> So if he'd said "Oh crap, rained out, guess I'll be home after all. But I still won't do any stuff you like." you'd have been happy? I don't think so. You can say no thanks, but I don't get going off on him b/c he tried to make the best of a rainy day.


You’re right I wouldn’t have been happy. He told me last week when he came home he was going again this weekend. Either way I was his second choice only because of the weather. If he would have made it about me and not the weather I think I would have felt a lot different. 

If he hadn’t been there in a few weeks and that happened I wouldn’t have been upset. I would have felt bad for him.


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## Penny905 (Mar 28, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> OK, how about this? In an average month on two weekends he goes to the camping ground by himself. You go with him on one weekend, but on the fourth weekend, you and he do something together, not at the camping ground.
> 
> Could that work, do you think?


I’m thinking something like this might be the best solution. 1/3 camp together 1/3 he camps and I stay home and 1/3 we both stay home. Rotate very week.


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## Violet28 (Oct 4, 2018)

What do you like to do? It seems like you have spent a lot of time learning to like what he likes, has he spent time doing things you enjoy?


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Penny905 said:


> You’re right I wouldn’t have been happy. He told me last week when he came home he was going again this weekend. Either way I was his second choice only because of the weather. If he would have made it about me and not the weather I think I would have felt a lot different.
> 
> If he hadn’t been there in a few weeks and that happened I wouldn’t have been upset. I would have felt bad for him.


I think the problem isn't that you were plan B instead of plan X that weekend, but that too often, you aren't plan A. And I agree that too often, you aren't plan A. 

It sounds nice if your spouse is ALWAYS plan A, but that isn't reasonable. No person can meet all of another person's needs all of the time. Now and then, each of us should go off and do stuff alone or w/ other people. But this isn't now and then, and you should ask for more.

The two of you had something that you liked, and you don't like it any more. This happens, unless your spouse is dead. You respect that he still likes this, and that is huge! But he needs to respect that it no longer works for the person he took vows with. All spouses change, we need to make reasonable accommodations for that. I think he should go camping now and then, and you should keep an open mind to going along some time. But most of your time should be based on stuff that works for both of you. 

If a couples counsellor will help w/ this discussion, then it is money well spent and it doesn't reflect on either of you. I spent money on a financial planner b/c what he charged me was a lot less than I could lose by doing w/o what he could do for me.


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## Dusk (Oct 29, 2018)

You've been together a long time and still don't communicate very well. Either say yes it's fine for him to go and actually be okay with it, or say no it's not and find some ways to have as much fun spending time together as he has camping with friends. Saying yes, go and then being resentful about it is really passive aggressive.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Bananapeel said:


> That's not a discussion. That's a complaint. A discussion is when they both spend time reflecting on what they both want and talk about their options and how they want to proceed.


Ok, so you know for sure he didn't reply, walked out each single time and didn't discuss anything. :laugh:


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Penny905 said:


> We have had discussions, which led us to our one solution that we tried the beginning of this season. Unfortunately it didn't work out. I posted this earlier in this thread:
> 
> "I have told him many times I feel invisable. It wasn't just him making me feel that way. He made extra effort when I would go there and I appreciate it, it didn't work. Picture taking a kid to the candy store but they can only window shop. Then freinds felt it was my fault for him not being around alot, which it was. I got tired of it. "


Thank you for confirming this...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

SpinyNorman said:


> So if he'd said "Oh crap, rained out, guess I'll be home after all. But I still won't do any stuff you like." you'd have been happy? I don't think so. You can say no thanks, but I don't get going off on him b/c he tried to make the best of a rainy day.
> 
> As others have said, you both need to work out some compromises, how many times he goes camping, how many times you do difft. other stuff. I think it is fine to have hobbies the other spouse isn't into and to spend some time apart, but when it is too much time it can stop being a marriage. If he really won't talk about this, marriage counselling might help. Sometimes a referee can convince him better than you can.



She feels second choice all the time (to his hobbies) - she takes part but it's difficult to enjoy something you don't like _all the time_. I'm sure Penny would like her husband to take notice of her and choose to stay at home with her from time to time, _*without her having to ask him*_...


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Penny905 said:


> I learned everything about football and watched faithfully. That worked for over 15 years, I still watch. Then he started on Nascar, I learned and watched.


 I'd blow my brains out before forcing myself to watch either of these things even *once*, much less on a regular basis. LOL. There isn't a man on this planet worth that torture. 

You're a better woman than I.









Penny, the ONLY one making an effort is *you*. That's painfully clear. But as the others have said, people don't do what they don't want to do (and you're proof of that - you don't want to go to the campground every weekend so you don't), but my point is, your husband is simply doing what _he_wants to do. He doesn't want to stay home and cook and he doesn't want to stay home and play Monopoly or go antiquing, he finds the campground exciting and fulfilling for whatever reasons are his own, and that's where he wants to be. My husband bought the classic midlife crisis car - a new Corvette - a few years ago, and I'm actually tickled pink that he has a new passion. He belongs to car clubs now and goes to car shows where he sometimes participates and sometimes is just a spectator, and he's now got different groups of friends with which he attends various car-related events, etc. etc. I'm *thrilled* to have the house to myself when he goes to one of these events and only wish he'd go to more. LOL.

Marriage is all about compromise. He knows that but I kind of get the feeling you're the only one whose been doing most of the the compromising over the years. As another suggested, he'll have to compromise and spend less time at the campground and be more of an active and present participant in your marriage. It doesn't have to be all or nothing but it seems he's made it that way.

Sending prayers for your son's speedy recovery.


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## PigglyWiggly (May 1, 2018)

I wonder how he would feel if you were gone on the weekends while he attended to the house. Your husband lives as though he is single. Why is a married man going to bars? You may not have exercised the best approach to confronting this situation but that seems irrelevant in comparison to him basically replacing his family with his camping friends. The situation with your son is tragic and it seems the man who should be your emotional support would rather pretend he is single. How is your sex life?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

I'm reaching way back in the TAM archives. Here is a simple definition of a fitness or sh** test provided by a user back in 2009.



> Don't imagine a woman thinks or feels like a man, in sexual nature, as different as east from west.
> 
> Sh!t tests, they are not intellectual or logical, a woman often doesn't realize it when asked outright what she is even doing.
> 
> ...


That should give you your answer. More importantly in your case, whether it was a test or not isn't really relevant. Your feelings about his behavior are pretty clear.


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## Dusk (Oct 29, 2018)

I'm pretty sure the idea of women giving **** tests comes straight from the Red Pill crowd. It's not a great community and basically full of men describing what women do, why they do it and refusing to listen to actual women about their motivations. It's fairly misogynistic and divisive language, probably best avoided.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Penny905 said:


> I’m thinking something like this might be the best solution. 1/3 camp together 1/3 he camps and I stay home and 1/3 we both stay home. Rotate very week.


I just had another thought about this to make things even more equal. Are there anythings you enjoy as a hobby that you husband could take part in with you. If your still going camping to maintain some closeness maybe he could do something with you for you.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Dusk said:


> I'm pretty sure the idea of women giving **** tests comes straight from the Red Pill crowd. It's not a great community and basically full of men describing what women do, why they do it and refusing to listen to actual women about their motivations. It's fairly misogynistic and divisive language, probably best avoided.


Well how else are women supposed to know why they do the stuff they do if us men don't explain it to them? :wink2:


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Penny905 said:


> I’m thinking something like this might be the best solution. 1/3 camp together 1/3 he camps and I stay home and 1/3 we both stay home. Rotate very week.


That can work great, but it also has to be accompanied with a change in attitude. When you're doing things together, you both have to be enjoying that time. If you or he treat it as a favor and an obligation, that will likely lead to problems. So when you go camping, you need to really try to enjoy it. And when he's home with you, he needs to be enjoying that time you spend together.

Is there any problem with the amount of time away and your son's condition? Is he able to take care of himself when he's alone?


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## Penny905 (Mar 28, 2014)

wilson said:


> That can work great, but it also has to be accompanied with a change in attitude. When you're doing things together, you both have to be enjoying that time. If you or he treat it as a favor and an obligation, that will likely lead to problems. So when you go camping, you need to really try to enjoy it. And when he's home with you, he needs to be enjoying that time you spend together.
> 
> Is there any problem with the amount of time away and your son's condition? Is he able to take care of himself when he's alone?


I never thought of that, but you are absolutely correct. If we do this, when I go I can't feel or act like it is a punishment. Being aware of this, I will try to make sure it doesn't happen. Thank You!

With our son, if he's recently had surgery I won't go. He has CRPS, a nerve condition. When it flares he can't even walk or do anything and he is in excruciating pain. ( the McGill pain scale this is worse than childbirth and amputation) I don't even work then until the flare subsides a bit. 

Violet - I couldn't even tell you what I like, I have lost myself. These past few years have made it worse.

Piggly - I don't have a problem with him going to a bar, so that is a non-issue. We have a good sex life and average twice a week

Dusk - I am fine with him going. The beginning of Sept when I told him I was done and he could go, It didn't become a problem until now. We had one weekend with an issue because he went to the bar Thursday, came home after I was in bed then went straight from work to the campground. I mentioned that earlier in this thread.

I truly do not have a problem with him going, I have realized I have a problem with him going every week.
If he decided on that Thursday that he wanted to stay home to do stuff I really don't think I would have had a problem. I whole heartedly believe it was his wording. "It's going to rain, how about I stay home and we..........." That's when it made me feel like Plan B.

He is going this weekend and the season is over, we will work on this through the winter.


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## BigDigg (Jan 11, 2018)

Penny905 said:


> Violet - I couldn't even tell you what I like, I have lost myself. These past few years have made it worse..


Penny...this *IS* the problem. I asked you earlier what 'value' you thought you provided. Everything you told me were basically sacrifices you make to be around your husband or things you directly do for him. That's wonderful of course and your heart is in the right place. You are certainly a great mother and probably a great wife. Possibly a great lover too. But are you a great friend and companion? Someone that adds and compliments his life's enjoyment? You can't expect him to return the favor if you've got little to add to the mix and your husband can't be mad for you or miss you if you have no passion yourself...

Yes you are married and he should want to spend time with you. But that 'contract' is really only to try and make effort. You can't guarantee or force feelings. Eventually we all are responsible for our own happiness and we choose activities and surround our self with people that enrich. In a great marriage being together is something *both* sides can't live without because each complements and adds value to their partner. 

I'm not trying to be mean at all but would suggest you really look at yourself and what you want in life. And make defining and chasing your own happiness a priority. If you've lost yourself make it your mission to find yourself again. It's not your husband's responsibility to carry you in life. Long-term it's too much to ask of a partner. If you find your passion again i'm betting he'll see the spark that made him fall in love with you initially and he'll *want* to be around you. You'll add value to his life. But most importantly you'll be happy again.

Related side note - your marriage sounds a bit like my parents (minus the kids health issues). My dad is a bit of a renaissance man of many interests and always out doing something or away at events. He's a college professor and naturally very social and outgoing. My mom loves her church, grand kids, own kids and dog (in that order) and not much else. She's happy and upbeat but generally quiet and relaxed and introverted. My parents rarely do things together outside of family events and have each found their own space and their own happiness. At some point my dad just decided that he was going to do things that brought him happiness and my mom was OK to let him and do her own things. But it's more than a bit sad to me in some ways. Truthfully though she's a wonderful person (a saint) I feel like my mom doesn't add much for my dad. I bet he'd wish he had a more compatible partner too and would do things differently if he had a second chance. But they've both come to peace with it and decided being together for kids/grandkids was the most important thing. Sad.


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## Penny905 (Mar 28, 2014)

Bigdigg, you are right, me losing myself needs to change, I really don't think it's the only issue. No I don't have that passion about anything besides my family. 
I think he needs to put effort in changing also. He needs to try to even enjoy something I like or would do. He should even watch a show I may like, I do this type of thing a lot. Don't get me wrong he will sit with me but he will be on his Ipad playing a game or checking email, sorry I feel like that doesn't count. I loved going to this quaint town in the next state about 90 minute drive, beautiful sights, we could see a show or concert there. Great restaurants and shops. We used to go maybe twice a year, not even yearly now. That is because I got disheartened when he told me it "gets old"


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## BigDigg (Jan 11, 2018)

Penny - for sure - not trying to imply at all that your husband shouldn't be making an effort. But realize that if you aren't interesting or fun to be with that can become a chore. And maybe over time that's the way it's been (i cannot say - you tell me). Eventually the flame can die and it becomes an obligation. 

Funny thing about TV shows - my wife LOVES Hallmark Channel type movies. She's legitimately excited about the upcoming holiday slate (OMG...). If you've ever seen them they are mindless and IMO terrible. But she loves that about them. So once or twice a week I'll come to bed (where she usually watches) and watch them with her and be totally 'present' (no phone/ipad). I try to make it fun by making it a game - guess the mindless plot (it's like a mad-libs game for romantic comedies) - or just generally goofing on the people and circumstances. Movies are still terrible but the time together is golden. We interact a lot more than just watch.

If you want a trip away then schedule it and let him know it's mandatory and make it FUN. Make sure you find a way to entice him. Maybe find a way to wrap some of his interests to the trip, promise to wear something sexy, schedule a surprise pit stop  Keep it light and fun and remember to be the kind of girl you were when you had to 'earn' his attention vs. obligation. Be this girl and watch as he transforms back to that boy.

Sorry hope you don't think i'm picking on you. Honestly trying to help! I have no idea who you are and maybe you are a really interesting and fun person. But you sound a bit beaten down in life (understandable) and depressed and the weight of everything has impacted you. Your husband should be your rock and help lift you up, but long term you will need to get back to being the interesting girl that captured his attention. If you're not or not willing to then your relationship will follow the path its on.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Penny905 said:


> I loved going to this quaint town in the next state about 90 minute drive, beautiful sights, we could see a show or concert there. Great restaurants and shops. We used to go maybe twice a year, not even yearly now. That is because I got disheartened when he told me it "gets old"


Ahh, so THAT gets old, but going every single weekend to the SAME campground with the SAME people doesn't... got it....

With this in mind, he should be able to relate this to how you feel about the campground, and realize that you deserve the same consideration. Also, he should WANT to spend time with you, not leave you behind every weekend. I think also BiggDigg makes some good points in his last posts.


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## azimuth (May 15, 2018)

BigDigg said:


> Penny - for sure - not trying to imply at all that your husband shouldn't be making an effort. But realize that if you aren't interesting or fun to be with that can become a chore. And maybe over time that's the way it's been (i cannot say - you tell me). Eventually the flame can die and it becomes an obligation.
> 
> Funny thing about TV shows - my wife LOVES Hallmark Channel type movies. She's legitimately excited about the upcoming holiday slate (OMG...). If you've ever seen them they are mindless and IMO terrible. But she loves that about them. So once or twice a week I'll come to bed (where she usually watches) and watch them with her and be totally 'present' (no phone/ipad). I try to make it fun by making it a game - guess the mindless plot (it's like a mad-libs game for romantic comedies) - or just generally goofing on the people and circumstances. Movies are still terrible but the time together is golden. We interact a lot more than just watch.
> 
> ...



@Penny905 I hope the above post by BigDig didn't make you feel too bad. I can tell you are interesting, smart and have fun ideas about what you can your husband can do together. I don't think you need to make yourself more interesting in order to attract him to stay with you. From reading this thread you have devoted your entire life, heart and soul to this man and in return he goes camping without you every weekend and makes you feel inferior about it. No one should make you feel inferior. You and your husband should be a team and partners. Take care of the things that need to be first together, like rehabilitating your son, and then decide what to do during free time together. If it's decided that he camps while you relax at home that's great, but the important thing is that you would have decided that together beforehand and are both ok with it. Improving yourself, making yourself interesting, just seems like some version of the pick me dance. Not that we can't all benefit from self-growth but it should be for ourselves first, not to attract or keep someone.


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## PigglyWiggly (May 1, 2018)

Somebody explain to me why Penny is sinking alone while her husband is MIA on the weekends? I have to wonder how valuable her presence was while camping if her absence barely changed his schedule. They are having sex twice a week so is she really that boring and uninteresting? It sounds to me like they are friends with benefits and she takes the scraps he gives her. I am obviously projecting my own values but there is no way I would leave my wife at home with our sick child while her identity withers away. All I would need to hear from her is, "Baby I'm feeling lost and I need you." Camping would be chucked to the backburner and she would become my #1 priority. Please, someone explain what I am obviously misunderstanding because this just chaps my ass and i am somewhat embarrassed to have lost my composure over this.


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## BigDigg (Jan 11, 2018)

@azimuthReally sorry if I'm giving off the idea OP is responsible for this situation or being critical. I'm absolutely not and it's not my intent to tear her down or make her feel bad. But it's clear that OPs husband doesn't value time with her. Why is that? You can sit there and shout "marriage vows!" or "selfish *******!" all you want but that won't help OP. Bottom line is that people spend their time where they get value. It's human nature. I'm using the term 'value' as a hazy term since it's different for everyone. By OPs own admission she doesn't even know what she likes anymore. You don't think that's a problem here?

Funny - when we give the same general advice to a guy for why her wife won't have sex with him - be attractive, add value, up your game. Nobody complains about that. It's common sense.

PW - yes they seem have a decent sex life (great!). Is that really the barometer on his overall level of interest in her as a person? Wouldn't this tell you that he's still physically attracted but maybe something else is off if he's not making effort to spend time with her?

And yes - behind all of this is a husband that isn't cutting it. But you can't change him or beg for his time and attention. You can't negotiate desire. If he isn't having fun interacting with his wife showing him a marriage certificate and forcing him isn't the kind of attention she wants or deserves. Same as for men - if you want to change the dynamic you need to be ready to be really introspective and understand the root cause and what (if anything) you have done to influence or could do to improve. Common sense I think.


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## PigglyWiggly (May 1, 2018)

BigDigg said:


> @azimuthReally sorry if I'm giving off the idea OP is responsible for this situation or being critical. I'm absolutely not and it's not my intent to tear her down or make her feel bad. But it's clear that OPs husband doesn't value time with her. Why is that? You can sit there and shout "marriage vows!" or "selfish *******!" all you want but that won't help OP. Bottom line is that people spend their time where they get value. It's human nature. I'm using the term 'value' as a hazy term since it's different for everyone. By OPs own admission she doesn't even know what she likes anymore. You don't think that's a problem here?
> 
> Funny - when we give the same general advice to a guy for why her wife won't have sex with the - be attractive, add value, up your game. Nobody complains about that. It's common sense.
> 
> ...


I think it's a great indicator that she is interesting enough to F but not interesting enough to spend quality time with if it interferes with the enjoyment he gets from camping. She is a friend with benefits. If he doesn't desire her, he should express that and try to fix it together or get out of the marriage. Running off camping every weekend tells me he doesn't really care about her or his marriage as much as he does camping. You won't fix it at the campground while she is at home. His has shown what his priorities are and it isn't his marriage.


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## Penny905 (Mar 28, 2014)

I am hearing a lot of things I need to hear. I want you to know, I haven't just stopped doing things, real life just became more important and time consuming and everything else including myself took a back seat. My husband and I have been through a lot together, the death of my father, Taking in and raising 3 nephews. 2 are my sister's sons. because of being born addicted to drugs and removed from their parents. The illness and death of his sister(36). Taking in her son because the father was abusing and neglecting him and his sister. The death of both of my sisters, young (39 & 45, yes drugs) so now I am the only one my mom has to help her. Then this past 3 years have been hell. Our oldest son's accident. Multiple Hospitalizations with 21 surgeries to date. 2 years ago in October of 16 my mother-in-law got very ill. I took her to every dr appt and when she was hospitalized I would visit every day. She ended up coming home on hospice to our home, right after Christmas that year and died a few days later. Last August we lost our "grandson" at 4 1/2 months old to SIDS. 
.
Come April, when not as many regulars are there yet I can actually enjoy it. It's not camping that I don't like, I don't like everything being a crowd. Let me sit at a fire with 3 other couples I'm fine then 10 other couples show up and I go inside, alone. In my infinite wisdom, I decided if I'm going to be alone, I'm much happier at home. My mind doesn't stop and I think that is why I have a low tolerance for crowds now and don't enjoy camping


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

BigDigg said:


> Bottom line is that people spend their time where they get value. It's human nature. I'm using the term 'value' as a hazy term since it's different for everyone.


Leisure time is where this really shows up. People tend to do what's "required" of them, for the sake of their family, children, spouses, etc... But when it comes down to the "disposable" time, it's usually quite a small amount compared to the sacrificial time, and people become rather adamant about maintaining the activities which "recharge the batteries".

For you and your husband, this "recharge" time likely takes very different form. You want time with one, or maybe two, select "friends", or just being completely alone..... your husband wants "the party"....

Case in point:



Penny905 said:


> I don't have that passion about anything besides my family.


But, you have to accept that your husband is not "wired" like you. And,



BigDigg said:


> It's not your husband's responsibility to carry you in life.


Find things to do which satisfy you, things of which your husband does not have to be a part of. If that's simply staying home with your family, that is perfectly legitimate and acceptable.



Penny905 said:


> I don't like everything being a crowd.


Believe me, I "get it". I don't like anything to do with a crowd. In fact, the best moments of life are when there's NOBODY ELSE. But, my wife loves a crowd.... and, she needs the crowd, every bit as much as I need the "not crowd"....

What I had to figure out was this: she wants to go to the crowd, and that has nothing, absolutely nothing whatsoever, to do with me. She is not "failing at her marital vows", she does not have screwed-up priorities, in fact, she is a wonderfully-good wife, attending to her family with excellence. It's not that I'm a "plan B", or an "afterthought", or anything like that. She just likes the crowd, and I don't. That's it.....



Penny905 said:


> My husband and I have been through a lot together


You sure have..... and the most significant thing I hear in your discourse is that your husband was "there"....and, still is.....


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## Penny905 (Mar 28, 2014)

PigglyWiggly said:


> I think it's a great indicator that she is interesting enough to F but not interesting enough to spend quality time with if it interferes with the enjoyment he gets from camping. She is a friend with benefits. If he doesn't desire her, he should express that and try to fix it together or get out of the marriage. Running off camping every weekend tells me he doesn't really care about her or his marriage as much as he does camping. You won't fix it at the campground while she is at home. His has shown what his priorities are and it isn't his marriage.


I think this sums it up, I feel like FWB


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## PigglyWiggly (May 1, 2018)

Penny905 said:


> I think this sums it up, I feel like FWB


I am sorry for what you are going through. Have you actually said something to the effect, "I am struggling. I need you and I need your help"? You don't have to know exactly what's wrong or exactly what you need but you do need support to get out of this hole and he is supposed to be the 1st in line to offer that.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Penny905 said:


> I am hearing a lot of things I need to hear. I want you to know, I haven't just stopped doing things, real life just became more important and time consuming and everything else including myself took a back seat. My husband and I have been through a lot together, the death of my father, Taking in and raising 3 nephews. 2 are my sister's sons. because of being born addicted to drugs and removed from their parents. The illness and death of his sister(36). Taking in her son because the father was abusing and neglecting him and his sister. The death of both of my sisters, young (39 & 45, yes drugs) so now I am the only one my mom has to help her. Then this past 3 years have been hell. Our oldest son's accident. Multiple Hospitalizations with 21 surgeries to date. 2 years ago in October of 16 my mother-in-law got very ill. I took her to every dr appt and when she was hospitalized I would visit every day. She ended up coming home on hospice to our home, right after Christmas that year and died a few days later. Last August we lost our "grandson" at 4 1/2 months old to SIDS.
> .
> Come April, when not as many regulars are there yet I can actually enjoy it. It's not camping that I don't like, I don't like everything being a crowd. Let me sit at a fire with 3 other couples I'm fine then 10 other couples show up and I go inside, alone. In my infinite wisdom, I decided if I'm going to be alone, I'm much happier at home. My mind doesn't stop and I think that is why I have a low tolerance for crowds now and don't enjoy camping


I hope the people who came on here initially and gave you a really hard time come back and read this. It hurt my heart......


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Penny905 said:


> I think this sums it up, I feel like FWB


No "friend with benefits" is going to hang around during all those hard times. A "FWB" is a "fair-weather" friend... your husband is loving, dedicated, and sacrificial. He put his family first. I can guarantee that you are precious beyond measure to him. His actions speak very loudly, and completely proclaim that you are not a "FWB".


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## PigglyWiggly (May 1, 2018)

TJW said:


> No "friend with benefits" is going to hang around during all those hard times. A "FWB" is a "fair-weather" friend... your husband is loving, dedicated, and sacrificial. He put his family first. I can guarantee that you are precious beyond measure to him. His actions speak very loudly, and completely proclaim that you are not a "FWB".


They have a sick son at home and he bails on the weekend to the campground while his precious beyond measure wife stays behind because camping is more fun that an unhappy wife and sick kid..hard times. Is that putting your family first? What about his actions speak loudly that she is not a FWB? Is it going to bars without her? Is it the 2x a week they have sex? Is it the support he hasn't offered to help his wife get out of this rut that makes her seem precious beyond measure to him? I am genuinely curious as to what you see that that makes you believe what you've said.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Penny905 said:


> I am hearing a lot of things I need to hear. I want you to know, I haven't just stopped doing things, real life just became more important and time consuming and everything else including myself took a back seat. My husband and I have been through a lot together, the death of my father, Taking in and raising 3 nephews. 2 are my sister's sons. because of being born addicted to drugs and removed from their parents. The illness and death of his sister(36). Taking in her son because the father was abusing and neglecting him and his sister. The death of both of my sisters, young (39 & 45, yes drugs) so now I am the only one my mom has to help her. Then this past 3 years have been hell. Our oldest son's accident. Multiple Hospitalizations with 21 surgeries to date. 2 years ago in October of 16 my mother-in-law got very ill. I took her to every dr appt and when she was hospitalized I would visit every day. She ended up coming home on hospice to our home, right after Christmas that year and died a few days later. Last August we lost our "grandson" at 4 1/2 months old to SIDS.
> .
> Come April, when not as many regulars are there yet I can actually enjoy it. It's not camping that I don't like, I don't like everything being a crowd. Let me sit at a fire with 3 other couples I'm fine then 10 other couples show up and I go inside, alone. In my infinite wisdom, I decided if I'm going to be alone, I'm much happier at home. My mind doesn't stop and I think that is why I have a low tolerance for crowds now and don't enjoy camping


My goodness you sure do alot for others. Bless you. It's time for others, namely your husband, to do for you.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

PigglyWiggly said:


> I am genuinely curious as to what you see that that makes you believe what you've said.


He hasn't "bailed" on his sick son nor his wife. His batteries need recharge. He gets the recharge, then goes back to his role as supporter and provider.

He cannot "help" his wife get out of her rut. She has to do that herself. There's nothing he can do, it's likely he doesn't understand why she's in the rut.
Staying at home on the weekends isn't going to change anything. He will still have his nature, and she will still have her nature.


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## Steelman (Mar 5, 2018)

happyhusband0005 said:


> I think yes but more importantly you need to find a compromise to this situation. I get you feeling left behind, but you decided to stay home and told him it is fine to go on his own. Us husbands usually take our wives words literally on things like this. Sometimes we get lucky with the mind reading sometimes we're oblivious.
> 
> You've been going to this campground for 20 years, and all of a sudden you want to stop but he still really enjoys it and wants to keep going, it's an important part of his life. On the other hand you've had a great run for 20 years and maybe it's time for something new that you both enjoy.
> 
> Is there a middle ground, maybe 1/3 of the time you go with him and enjoy the outdoors, fresh air and relax while he soaks up the social scene, 1/3 of the time you stay home and he goes but during those weeks he spends some extra time with you on date nights and stuff like that, and 1/3 of the time he skips the campground and you to find some stuff to do closer to home to allow him some social energy.


This sounds like a compromise I was going to recommend. The fact is, its been a part of your lives for 20 years. So maybe he cuts back to a few weekends a month, where you go at least one of them. And the other weekend he stays home.


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## PigglyWiggly (May 1, 2018)

TJW said:


> He hasn't "bailed" on his sick son nor his wife. His batteries need recharge. He gets the recharge, then goes back to his role as supporter and provider.
> 
> He cannot "help" his wife get out of her rut. She has to do that herself. There's nothing he can do, it's likely he doesn't understand why she's in the rut.
> Staying at home on the weekends isn't going to change anything. He will still have his nature, and she will still have her nature.


When does she get her batteries recharged? When does she get her weekends away or time at the bars? If you are suffering from depression, you don't just pull yourself out of it. His role as supporter and provider doesn't end with a paycheck. There is mental and emotional support that he is supposed to provide. I really wonder how many people think it is okay to spend 1-2 nights per week away from home for leisure activities. You don't take weekends away from home to go camping when your marriage is suffering. That just sounds like a piss poor husband to me but maybe I think of wife differently than others.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Probably the critical problem is the amount of time he spends away from home. Time apart can often stress the relationship. Even when it's justified, like for work or caring for a relative, the time away can add a lot of stress to the marriage. He should probably do a lot of introspection to understand if he really needs to be away for all that time, and if he's trying to escape his homelife or something like that. Pretty much any marriage would develop cracks if one partner said they were going to spend several weekends a month out of town for recreation. Just from an objective perspective, his behavior should probably change. If he still feels like he needs to camp several times a month, then it should be a kind of camping which you enjoy (e.g. small groups). Right now he's spending so much time "recharging" that it's significantly impacting the marriage.

Just from a house chores perspective, I don't understand how he can be away that much. Most of my weekends include a significant amount of time working in the yard or doing stuff like cleaning and laundry. Aside from the relationship aspect, I would suspect that he's skipping out on many household duties with his time away. 

Maybe the best way to approach this is to say that you're spending too much time apart and it's hurting the marriage. Say that you need to be spending more time together, which means finding things you both like to do. It may mean that he doesn't go camping and you don't get your lazy days at home, but instead you find some new activity which you both enjoy. Even if he say he needs time to recharge, try to get him to limit the amount of time away. Part of the problem is that he's acting like he's a single guy rather than a father and husband with the associated responsibilities. Hopefully you can at least get him to understand that he can't be away from his family that much and expect the family to be okay with it.


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## Violet28 (Oct 4, 2018)

Penny905 said:


> I am hearing a lot of things I need to hear. I want you to know, I haven't just stopped doing things, real life just became more important and time consuming and everything else including myself took a back seat. My husband and I have been through a lot together, the death of my father, Taking in and raising 3 nephews. 2 are my sister's sons. because of being born addicted to drugs and removed from their parents. The illness and death of his sister(36). Taking in her son because the father was abusing and neglecting him and his sister. The death of both of my sisters, young (39 & 45, yes drugs) so now I am the only one my mom has to help her. Then this past 3 years have been hell. Our oldest son's accident. Multiple Hospitalizations with 21 surgeries to date. 2 years ago in October of 16 my mother-in-law got very ill. I took her to every dr appt and when she was hospitalized I would visit every day. She ended up coming home on hospice to our home, right after Christmas that year and died a few days later. Last August we lost our "grandson" at 4 1/2 months old to SIDS.


This all takes a toll on you, are you able to take some time for yourself now? It doesn't have to be every day but a couple times a week for an hour or so doing something relaxing. You could try a yoga class, join a book club, go to church, get a makeover. 



Penny905 said:


> I loved going to this quaint town in the next state about 90 minute drive, beautiful sights, we could see a show or concert there. Great restaurants and shops. We used to go maybe twice a year, not even yearly now. That is because I got disheartened when he told me it "gets old"


This sound like a perfect day trip you do by yourself, with your mother or with your daughter (if you have one), don't stop doing things you enjoy simply because he doesn't want to go. He doesn't let the lack of your presence keep him from doing things.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

PigglyWiggly said:


> I really wonder how many people think it is okay to spend 1-2 nights per week away from home for leisure activities.


I'm one who does. My wife does this on a consistent basis. It works. She is like @Penny905s husband, extroverted, has a need for lots of personal interaction and leisure activity.

This is the time that I get "recharge"....I can do things alone. My needs are quite different from my wife's. Not objecting to her life mode, allowing money for her to do these things, is one of the ways I can provide and support her.


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## PigglyWiggly (May 1, 2018)

TJW said:


> I'm one who does. My wife does this on a consistent basis. It works. She is like @Penny905s husband, extroverted, has a need for lots of personal interaction and leisure activity.
> 
> This is the time that I get "recharge"....I can do things alone. My needs are quite different from my wife's. Not objecting to her life mode, allowing money for her to do these things, is one of the ways I can provide and support her.


That's wonderful that you have found an arrangement that meets both of your needs. Both parties are happy which is the result we all hope for. That arrangement isn't working for Penny so the arrangement may need to be changed.


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

Penny905 said:


> I am hearing a lot of things I need to hear. I want you to know, I haven't just stopped doing things, real life just became more important and time consuming and everything else including myself took a back seat. My husband and I have been through a lot together, the death of my father, Taking in and raising 3 nephews. 2 are my sister's sons. because of being born addicted to drugs and removed from their parents. The illness and death of his sister(36). Taking in her son because the father was abusing and neglecting him and his sister. The death of both of my sisters, young (39 & 45, yes drugs) so now I am the only one my mom has to help her. Then this past 3 years have been hell. Our oldest son's accident. Multiple Hospitalizations with 21 surgeries to date. 2 years ago in October of 16 my mother-in-law got very ill. I took her to every dr appt and when she was hospitalized I would visit every day. She ended up coming home on hospice to our home, right after Christmas that year and died a few days later. Last August we lost our "grandson" at 4 1/2 months old to SIDS.
> .
> Come April, when not as many regulars are there yet I can actually enjoy it. It's not camping that I don't like, I don't like everything being a crowd. Let me sit at a fire with 3 other couples I'm fine then 10 other couples show up and I go inside, alone. In my infinite wisdom, I decided if I'm going to be alone, I'm much happier at home. My mind doesn't stop and I think that is why I have a low tolerance for crowds now and don't enjoy camping


I am sorry to hear all you have been thru. You are a strong woman. SO sorry to hear about the grand baby and son having so many surgeries. Hang in there kiddo!


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

TJW said:


> No "friend with benefits" is going to hang around during all those hard times. A "FWB" is a "fair-weather" friend... your husband is loving, dedicated, and sacrificial. He put his family first. I can guarantee that you are precious beyond measure to him. His actions speak very loudly, and completely proclaim that you are not a "FWB".


This is a very nice post and it is true. But she FEELS like a FWB.

SHe needs more time with him and more emotional connection.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

PigglyWiggly said:


> That arrangement isn't working for Penny so the arrangement may need to be changed.


Then, the arrangement won't work for Mr. Penny. Would it need to be changed again?


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

FieryHairedLady said:


> . But she FEELS like a FWB.


Yes, I get it.... But, what can change her feelings is to recognize that they have no basis in FACT. Her husband cannot change her feelings. Only she can.


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## PigglyWiggly (May 1, 2018)

TJW said:


> Then, the arrangement won't work for Mr. Penny. Would it need to be changed again?


We don't know that but that's quite possible. Is he willing to make a change for the sake of his marriage? Stay tuned


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

FieryHairedLady said:


> This is a very nice post and it is true. But she FEELS like a FWB.
> 
> SHe needs more time with him and more emotional connection.


Should also be taken into consideration that the husband here has suffered through all this as well. He could very well be in a lot of pain and getting away on the weekends is how he is coping. @Penny905 Have you guys had any counseling to help process all the loss and stress, there's a lot there. Has your husband just internalized all of it how have you both supported each other through this all. 

A lot of couple who have dealt with this much trauma don't survive. Often the cause is they deal with the pain in completely different ways and don't have the capacity to help each other while helping themselves, you need to find that balance.


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## Penny905 (Mar 28, 2014)

I am taking all of this advice to heart, reading some of this does make my heart hurt, but it also gives me ideas to come up with a game plan. When I told all of you what we have been through, I did it so you would understand what we have dealt with and that we still managed to come out together. Our history plays a big part in who we are today, yet I am not sure if the advice needs to change too much because of it. No our marriage isn’t in a great spot and something needs to change. After he comes home this weekend we are going to come up with a plan together, in the mean time I am going to figure out what I need to do for me. 

PS – yes he is going again, no I don’t have a problem with it. It is something that he has worked on since the beginning of the season, to raise the money for this. It is the end of the season party with multiple bands, magicians, food & drink. No I won’t be going. If I went he would be too worried about me to have fun and I don’t want to do that to him. It’s too much for me and I actually haven’t gone to the end of season party in the past 3 years. 

If anyone has more input or ideas, please share them.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

penny905 said:


> in the mean time i am going to figure out what i need to do for me.


^^^^ yes


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## Penny905 (Mar 28, 2014)

FieryHairedLady said:


> This is a very nice post and it is true. But she FEELS like a FWB.
> 
> SHe needs more time with him and more emotional connection.


Thank You

I know I am not a FWB, but yes that IS how I feel. Just like last weekend made me feel like Plan B. 
Feelings aren't always logical and I don't need my husband to justify them. I don't need my husband to tell me I'm too emotional or I'm too sensitive either. I need him to hear me, be understanding and accept how I feel.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Penny905 said:


> PS – yes he is going again, no I don’t have a problem with it. It is something that he has worked on since the beginning of the season, to raise the money for this. It is the end of the season party with multiple bands, magicians, food & drink. No I won’t be going. If I went he would be too worried about me to have fun and I don’t want to do that to him. It’s too much for me and I actually haven’t gone to the end of season party in the past 3 years.


Maybe you should consider going. Is there any way you can go and have a good time? Even if you have to fake it and act the part, could you make it seem like you're really having a good time? It sounds like there's a lot going on, so you could easily go off on your own if you need some time alone. If you could go, it would be a great way to start this process. Next week you could say that you have so much fun when you're with him, but you find the large-group environment overwhelming. It would be a good way to start the conversation on spending more quality time together in shared activities.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

I will say this.....if your husband's day to day life during the week is Soooooooo overwhelming he needs to recharge EVERY SINGLE WEEKEND....he needs to make some changes in his day to day life. Recharging is having a beer after work and maybe fishing a couple times a month with the boys. Let's get real.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Penny905 said:


> PS – yes he is going again, no I don’t have a problem with it. It is something that he has worked on since the beginning of the season, to raise the money for this. It is the end of the season party with multiple bands, magicians, food & drink. *No I won’t be going. If I went he would be too worried about me to have fun and I don’t want to do that to him.* It’s too much for me and I actually haven’t gone to the end of season party in the past 3 years.
> 
> If anyone has more input or ideas, please share them.


 I think the bolded is a load of tripe. You're trying to do exactly what you want and make yourself look selfless while doing it. You say in the next sentence you don't want to go. Just be honest about it. Look, I get not wanting to be in crowds, I think it comes with depression, at least I think it did for me. Is there no way you can make some friends that are in the campground group that would make you look forward to going there? I'd bet there are at least a couple of like-minded folks that aren't big on the crowds as well. You kind of changed the rules on your hubby after 20 years, so expecting him to turn around and follow your every step (I know you are not doing this just, making a point) wouldn't ever work without building up a ton of resentment for you. So, whatever the solution you'll need to ease into it. Making the campground thing fun for you would be ideal.

Have you looked into any depression or anti-anxiety meds? It sounds like to me that may be part of the problem, but I'm no shrink or Dr., just offering my own experience. Welbutrin has helped me without really changing "me".
It may also just be that your hubby knows lots of folks so flits from one conversation to another and that leaves you just sort of standing there. This could be projection on my part because my wife is like that. I just politely walk away and find something that interests me until she's "done". As I mentioned above, the Welbutrin at least took the dread of being around crowds to a semi-tolerable level. Still not real keen on her work functions. Of course, she felt this way as well when we used to be around "my" crowd and she quit being involved with that scene(serious level hobby) many years ago.
Sorry for the stream of consciousness style, it's a bit disconnected.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Penny905 said:


> I don't need my husband to tell me I'm too emotional or I'm too sensitive either.


I hear this. Your H is making a mistake by invalidating your feelings. He's also trying to "fix" it. From his extroverted perspective, he would not see his actions as producing this kind of feelings or emotions. So, his reaction, along with his "maleness" which makes him want to "fix it", causes him to provide you with a "solution" which would "work" for him.


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## PigglyWiggly (May 1, 2018)

TJW said:


> I hear this. Your H is making a mistake by invalidating your feelings. He's also trying to "fix" it. From his extroverted perspective, he would not see his actions as producing this kind of feelings or emotions. So, his reaction, along with his "maleness" which makes him want to "fix it", causes him to provide you with a "solution" which would "work" for him.


I can attest to what TJW is saying by reflecting on my own marriage. There are times when my wife is complaining, if you will, about a situation and I am constantly hurling solutions at her. She gets very frustrated and asks me why I continue to do this. I can only say that it's because I see her suffering and as her protector, I want to make that stop. She has had to stop me and tell me that she just needs me to listen to her on more than one occasion. She just wants someone to hear her story. She doesn't need me to even agree with her but to just listen. I'm a dumb caveman so I now ask, "do you want solutions or for me to just listen?". This has been a great compromise that has worked for us.


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## PigglyWiggly (May 1, 2018)

Penny905 said:


> Thank You
> 
> I know I am not a FWB, but yes that IS how I feel. Just like last weekend made me feel like Plan B.
> Feelings aren't always logical and I don't need my husband to justify them. * I don't need my husband to tell me I'm too emotional or I'm too sensitive either. * I need him to hear me, be understanding and accept how I feel.


He needs to HEAR you when you tell him that you agree that you MAY be too sensitive or too emotional but he has to also understand that he MAY be not sensitive and/or emotional enough. It's actually more likely that his emotional and sensitivity level has been blunted by being raised as a male, where we are taught that we don't cry and to choke our emotions down so as not to be perceived as weak.


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## Penny905 (Mar 28, 2014)

Piggly & TJW, it’s funny you should say this.
On Sunday when the fight was subsided and we were talking, I told him what I think about his responses
He doesn’t want me feeling that way and thinks he is protecting me or giving me a solution.
Sometimes he doesn’t understand what I’m trying to say so I explained it this way

If I cut my foot on a nail coming out of our deck what would you do
He said he would get a hammer pound it in and check for other ones
I said exactly but I’m over here with a bleeding foot just wanting you to 
Help relieve the pain and bandage up my foot


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Did he get it ?


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## PigglyWiggly (May 1, 2018)

Penny905 said:


> Piggly & TJW, it’s funny you should say this.
> On Sunday when the fight was subsided and we were talking, I told him what I think about his responses
> He doesn’t want me feeling that way and thinks he is protecting me or giving me a solution.
> Sometimes he doesn’t understand what I’m trying to say so I explained it this way
> ...


"Have you had a Tetanus shot? Ok you will live. i'm going to get my hammer!" 

I kid but we are taught all our lives that it's our job to protect you. Rewiring the brain takes time but is doable if we are WILLING to learn. 

Establish where both of you would like the relationship to be. Talk about what a perfect relationship between you would look like. Discuss how you can both work to get you guys there. You must fight together towards a common goal and not lob emotional grenades at each other to inflict pain. "If we could work on X some, I think it would make me more receptive to Y" Work on solutions, not blame.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

It's not about the nail.


Still.


Just in case someone hasn't seen it:


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

PigglyWiggly said:


> Talk about what a perfect relationship between you would look like....... Work on solutions, not blame.


There are as many opinions about what "correct" conduct is as there are people. Don't assume that because something is in your mind, that the other person can "read" it, and "know" what to do. 

Almost all "blame" in marriages comes from preconceived expectations which aren't being "met". Don't have any. Wake up in a new world today. A world in which you're required to explain your needs, why they are needs, and what the best way to satisfy your needs is.


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## Penny905 (Mar 28, 2014)

Wilson, Me going this weekend isn't workable, I won't do that to myself. This is the "BIG" weekend for everyone. It becomes a big drunk fest, my husband included. Last year there was drama with someone and one of my kids (21), I called my husband and he took care of it. If I went, I would have a drink or two and then be frustrated because he will make a mess tracking dirt, mixing drinks and cooking. Then Sunday I would have to get up and clean the damages with him. I am happy he is going, he looks forward to this every year. I am even happier that this means the season is over. I will stay home go to lunch with a friend, visit with mom and clean the house, he can clean up the camper

TJW I don't know if he 'got it', I have told him before but never this way, we will see. You are absolutely correct about expectations, I know this, knowing this and not letting it happen are 2 different things. I will work on it.

Mr. Nail, I love the NAIL video, lol , I even showed my husband.

Rubix 7 years ago I was in a bad state, with meds and counselors. That was after I lost both sisters in a 1 1/2 years of each other. Maybe I need something, but this is not the same I am not depressed but more defeated, I am not on any meds at all. Yes you hit the nail on the head with how my husband is, it's like he is the mayor of the campground.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

Penny905 said:


> ...... I want you to know, I haven't just stopped doing things, real life just became more important and time consuming....
> 
> Come April, when not as many regulars are there yet I can actually enjoy it. I*t's not camping that I don't like, I don't like everything being a crowd. * Let me sit at a fire with 3 other couples I'm fine then 10 other couples show up and I go inside, alone. In my infinite wisdom, I decided if I'm going to be alone, I'm much happier at home. My mind doesn't stop and I think that is why I have a low tolerance for crowds now and don't enjoy camping.
> 
> Later.......I feel like a FWB.......


To me, it's partially about crowds, not camping. She has reasons/excuses for her stand. But, there is more.. a beginning of a bigger disconnect in this marriage. 

I would love to hear Penny's husband's POV! Has he adjusted to no longer having someone to share his fun time with or does he not even miss her? We can make all kinds of suppositions from our experience, but they aren't the truth of this situation.


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## Penny905 (Mar 28, 2014)

After the camping season ended last year we worked some things out and our marriage got more on track than it had been in a while. We were doing more things together, both with some of the campground people (smaller groups, not at the cg since it was closed) and some things just us. Life wasn't all good, our one boy deployed to Djibouti with the Army. Things were improving though, we were looking forward to our daughters wedding in May. Camping season was getting ready to start and we had our plan, rotating 1 week at home 1 week cg 1 week him there me home. 

Well we planned and life laughed at us. In April our daughter whos wedding was less than 4 weeks away got severely ill with a rare disease called aplastic anemia (bone marrow failure). She ended up hospitalized for a month part of that time she was even on a ventilator and with a feeding tube. She needed chemo and a bone marrow transplant. Her reception got postponed (it is now scheduled for next July) but she did get married on her date. Once released she needed blood and platelet transfusions multiple times a week. Our son who was in the accident was a perfect match but they weren't sure they would get enough bone marrow because of all the metal in his pelvis. The doctors decided to harvest and make sure they had enough before giving our daughter chemo. There was enough so they froze it and started her on Chemo. She had her bone marrow transplant the middle of June and was hospitalized for over a month again. She has been hospitalized a few other times with different things (an infection from ventilator tube, c-diff and EBV) because she has no immune system. She has been transfusion free for a bit now and the bone marrow is doing it's job. All of her counts are improving. She has clinical once a week, and has to give herself IV magnesium 2 hours every day. In December they will start to take her off the immune suppressive drugs and then hopefully she won't need magnesium any longer. She will then need to be re-immunized for all childhood vaccines. 

Of course camping season didn't go as planned, he didn't even make it there until the end of June. I only went 2 times the whole season. Here we are a year later and I am more defeated than I was this time last year  In dealing with our daughter things went awry, I feel like every time I start to get my footing something bad happens. We as a couple aren't as bad as last year but I personally am worse. I have been in IC but clearly I need something different. I find I it is hard or I am afraid to have a positive outlook. I am so defeated and I am at a loss.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Penny905 said:


> After the camping season ended last year we worked some things out and our marriage got more on track than it had been in a while. We were doing more things together, both with some of the campground people (smaller groups, not at the cg since it was closed) and some things just us. Life wasn't all good, our one boy deployed to Djibouti with the Army. Things were improving though, we were looking forward to our daughters wedding in May. Camping season was getting ready to start and we had our plan, rotating 1 week at home 1 week cg 1 week him there me home.
> 
> Well we planned and life laughed at us. In April our daughter whos wedding was less than 4 weeks away got severely ill with a rare disease called aplastic anemia (bone marrow failure). She ended up hospitalized for a month part of that time she was even on a ventilator and with a feeding tube. She needed chemo and a bone marrow transplant. Her reception got postponed (it is now scheduled for next July) but she did get married on her date. Once released she needed blood and platelet transfusions multiple times a week. Our son who was in the accident was a perfect match but they weren't sure they would get enough bone marrow because of all the metal in his pelvis. The doctors decided to harvest and make sure they had enough before giving our daughter chemo. There was enough so they froze it and started her on Chemo. She had her bone marrow transplant the middle of June and was hospitalized for over a month again. She has been hospitalized a few other times with different things (an infection from ventilator tube, c-diff and EBV) because she has no immune system. She has been transfusion free for a bit now and the bone marrow is doing it's job. All of her counts are improving. She has clinical once a week, and has to give herself IV magnesium 2 hours every day. In December they will start to take her off the immune suppressive drugs and then hopefully she won't need magnesium any longer. She will then need to be re-immunized for all childhood vaccines.
> 
> Of course camping season didn't go as planned, he didn't even make it there until the end of June. I only went 2 times the whole season. Here we are a year later and I am more defeated than I was this time last year  In dealing with our daughter things went awry, I feel like every time I start to get my footing something bad happens. We as a couple aren't as bad as last year but I personally am worse. I have been in IC but clearly I need something different. I find I it is hard or I am afraid to have a positive outlook. I am so defeated and I am at a loss.


I am so sorry to hear how all this has gone down recently. It's tough to offer advice for someone walking in your shoes, but one thing that might help to focus on is that, had these issues with son & daughter come up just a couple decades ago, they might not be with you now. And how amazing it is that your daughter was able to get married when planned. You've been thrown a lot of curve balls but you can still swing the bat. You're going to miss quite a few coming your way, but occasionally you can look forward to hitting one out of the park. My best to your family.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

So sorry---you must feel overwhelmed and are likely depressed. Would a new/different type therapy help? Maybe CBT? Find extra support...lean on others (pastor, priest, friends, family)--you cannot always be the glue holding all together.

Take care of yourself, health, exercise, upkeep, eat, sleep. Do you believe in meditation, prayer? 

I try to focus on the good as best I can. Has so much has gone wrong that you are afraid to hope? When one is in such a deep valley, it is difficult, but necessary to look up. 

If you could wave a magic wand right now, what would happen? ((hugs))


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

You sound overwhelmed and discouraged. {{hugs}} I'm sorry you've been having such a hard time of it, but I'm glad you and your husband are moving in a forward direction for your marriage. Sometimes life is two steps forward one step back or even five steps back and then you get on a roll. Hopefully that roll forward is on the way!

I find that when there are particularly difficult things happening that dwelling what is right about my life is tremendously helpful. For example, you have a good relationship with your daughter and her health is improving. My therapist also told me that this has been proven to be an effective way of dealing with depression. But I understand that the situation must have exhausted you.

Is it possible for you and your husband to take a vacation, just the two of you, doing something romantic and relaxing?


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

I work in a rough job isolated from my friends and family for long periods of time and in some very unusual circumstances. I’m a very difficult person to beat down.

If I were you I would be feeling like my head was just above the water. I unfortunately don’t have any words of encouragement but I sure hope for the best for you.

Hang in there!!


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Wow, what an ordeal. I am sorry you have been going through all this, but glad that your daughter's health is finally on the upswing.


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## Penny905 (Mar 28, 2014)

Thank you all for the concern and well wishes for my daughter and son. Your kindness is appreciated.

I guess I am afraid to hope. The past 4 years has really changed me to the core. I get overwhelmed very easily by simple things like having a extended family dinner which we used to do every week or two. It seems odd but I find myself constantly changing the radio station in my car, if I don't like it I keep changing it until I find something I'm willing to listen to. I can't handle crowds. I am unable to truly relax for fear of what may be happening. I feel like I'm paranoid. It is kind of like the only time I really have any ability or direction is when I am responding to a health issue with one of them.


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