# Idk how to Title this. Will be long.



## Feeling-Lonely (Nov 13, 2013)

I have been on this site some time now, mostly just reading. There are some good advices around here but I find most unrealistic. It is like most regular posters have these ideal relationships. Are they even real? Am I suppose to leave my H because of his bad qualities and look for "better man" which isn't likely I will find.

My H is smart, hard working guy, that has provided good life for us. I have worked on it hard as well but he definitely has sacrificed more. Including hard work and some pretty tough years in military service.

He is a good man and respected and even admired by some people. Our life appears pretty nice from an outside but inside he has drinking and raging problems. He drinks every night, sometimes it doesn't affect him but sometimes he screams at me. Calls me names and tells me to get out of his house which we have been living in for the past few years and I have done lot of work on, most house work and paid bills. 

He has this very loving, cute side of him but then he has the rage monster and it has gotten physical as well. Not too far or anything but a slap and a kick. Kind a "pretend" slap and a kick but it seems like one day he will do it like he means it.

After 6 years I am very confused, he works hard but therefore drinks, he gets crazy mad, I know our neighbors have heard him. I ask him to stop yelling and I never participate but he has this explosive side, he yells, he has imaginary screaming matches where he mocks me. Talks in a voice like it is me talking to him saying things. We both have said some pretty hurtful things about each other but I thought it is like that in most relationships. 

I don't know what to do. He gives me pretty secure life and all but is abusive (sometimes). Is it better to be with someone less smart, less successful just because they never lose control? 

Am I going to know when enough is enough or I just have to make the decision and get myself out of here?

I love the nice part of him and accept some short coming as I know I have mine but his raging side is slowly killing off my commitment and my wedding woes. We don't have kids and I could go back home (to another country) I guess the hardest thing would be to give up my fantasy about the future, you know, the typical - Sundays spent together at the lake or park with kids. 

He is not going to do marriage counseling, I know that. I bought the book "His needs Her needs" personally, thought it wasn't very helpful. To sum it up, according to the author women need security and men need sex. We have both of those but it still is not working. 

I am a doormat when I don't fallow up with my promises. I have said I will leave if he yells again and he has yelled again and I am still here. 

He is good and very bad at the same time. How can I know if it is too much. There are so many people out there putting up with bs and abuse. They all have their reasons. 

THanks for those who read this far. I mostly wanted to express my dissatisfaction with the state of the world and fellow human but if you do have an advice and would like to share, it is appreciated.


----------



## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

The emotional abuse is what is keeping you hooked. Whenever he abuses you, you shut down and try to emotionally distance yourself. When he is being sweet, the both of you hyper bond. Your relationship is going through extremes. You get addicted to the drama since those times of bonding is very strong, reconnecting the both of you. It is a vicious cycle and that is how abuse victims become trapped in this cycle.

neurologically, your going through spikes when it comes to drama. The lows are really low, and when the highs come, they feel great, better than it should be. This hyper bonding makes you strongly attached to him.

The longer you stay with him, the harder it becomes to operate in a healthy relationship since good relationships do not have that spike.

Best way I can explain it is like being on drugs. The lows equates the withdrawal symptoms, and the good times is like scoring another hit. You can see some similarity with what you and other drug addicts go through. For abuse victims, this is their new norm until they have the strength to leave.


----------



## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Feeling-Lonely said:


> There are some good advices around here but I find most unrealistic...It is like most regular posters have these ideal relationships. Are they even real?


Many posters here have relationships that are far less than ideal. I was personally in one that lasted 20 years before I got out. 



Feeling-Lonely said:


> Am I suppose to leave my H because of his bad qualities and look for "better man" which isn't likely I will find.


I don't think most people here would advise you to leave your marriage before exhausting all your options.

But you have described being married to a tyrant who is likely an alcoholic, gets drunk, screams and rages at you, calls you names, orders you to leave your home, and has slapped and kicked you (I doubt it's "play" slapping).

You are caught in a dangerous place of emotional and physical abuse, and if you called a domestic hotline they would likely advise you to leave this terrible situation.



Feeling-Lonely said:


> Am I going to know when enough is enough or I just have to make the decision and get myself out of here?


Only you can make the decision that you've had enough.

He needs to dry out, go to AA, and go to anger management counseling. *If he does those things, perhaps you can make it work.* If not, I think it's time to say enough is enough.

You also need intensive individual counseling to learn why you are willing to stay in an abusive relationship and allow yourself to be mistreated so badly. It can be hard for victims to get out of these situations on their own; that's why you need to seek counseling or go to a women's shelter for help.


----------



## Feeling-Lonely (Nov 13, 2013)

Mr.Fisty said:


> The emotional abuse is what is keeping you hooked. Whenever he abuses you, you shut down and try to emotionally distance yourself. When he is being sweet, the both of you hyper bond. Your relationship is going through extremes. You get addicted to the drama since those times of bonding is very strong, reconnecting the both of you. It is a vicious cycle and that is how abuse victims become trapped in this cycle.
> 
> neurologically, your going through spikes when it comes to drama. The lows are really low, and when the highs come, they feel great, better than it should be. This hyper bonding makes you strongly attached to him.
> 
> ...



I read this and I can't believe how right you are about this. I tell my family how perfect it is when things are good, I praise him. I have distanced myself from him emotionally when he is abusive and it doesn't hurt me like it used to. I just want to stay in my pretend life were everything is alright. 

I have planed a trip back home to visit my family soon, maybe that will help me get out, physically and emotionally. I think I have lost my self respect some what. I sometimes catch myself thinking - what if I didn't say this or do that, maybe he wouldn't of reacted that way. Something tells me that is typical in abusive relationships, victim blaming.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Feeling-Lonely said:


> After 6 years I am very confused, he works hard but therefore drinks, he gets crazy mad, I know our neighbors have heard him. I ask him to stop yelling and I never participate but he has this explosive side, he yells, he has imaginary screaming matches where he mocks me. Talks in a voice like it is me talking to him saying things. We both have said some pretty hurtful things about each other but I thought it is like that in most relationships.


If you want to try to keep this marriage, there are some things I suggest.

1)	You get in to counseling for domestic abuse (emotional & physical). Find a local organization that provides counseling for victims of abuse. They are much better suited to help you than a normal counselor. Yes he is emotionally abusing you with his outbursts, the kicking, and the slapping. While he has not really hurt you with the kicking & slapping it’s a very common type of message that physical abusers use. You even said it yourself. You are concerned/afraid that at some point he might do it a lot harder. He is threatening to harm you. (Does he also do things like break things, throw things, punch walls, furniture?)

2)	You need to learn to not engage in his angry outbursts. A tantrum or angry outburst needs an audience. If you are not around to see it, he has no audience. There is no fun putting on such a big show of anger if you are not there as a forced audience. 

One thing that you need to realize is that he has 100% control over his outbursts. How do I know this? Does he treat anyone else like he is treating you? Does you do this at work? How about in stores? Abusers know exactly what they are doing. Abuse is a tool used to control the victim. Your husband’s angry outbursts meant to keep you in line and under his control. 

Here is a way for you to stop being his audience and your stop participating in any way with his outbursts. This is something that I used when I was married to a man who was like your husband (Except he did not drink to the extent that your husband does.) I call it the “STOP” technique. 

The way it works is that when you notice that he is about to go into one of his crazy mad outbursts, you refuse to stay around him. You put up your hand in the “STOP” hand signal. And then you say “STOP” firmly. If he continues to rage, just say “I’m leaving. We can talk when you calm down.” And then you leave. Go to a room by yourself, or go out for a walk, or go drive somewhere. You stay away as long as you need to for him to calm down.. ½ hour, 1-2 hours, whatever it is. If you follows you to another room lock the room door. Have your cell with you. If he gets out of hand call 911. Do not let him follow you and/or intimidate you. While yes, calling the police will get him in trouble, a lot of times men like him will terrorize their wife because it’s behind closed doors. By calling 911 he learns that it’s not happening only in private any more. He has other men who now know that he’s an abusive bully. He has a court system that will send him to anger management classes. He will not be able to say no.

When I did this I practiced it in front of a mirror over and over until it was automatic. I conjured up mental images of my husband getting progressively agitated well on his way to a crazy rage. Then I’d put my hand up in a “stop” gesture and say “STOP”. I did it until the response was automatic to do it BEFORE he exploded. You know when your husband is escalating. Do the “STOP” thing BEFORE he blows up, when he just starts to escalate. 

Before you do this, talk to him when he is calm and tell him that his angry outbursts, his kicking & slapping are killing your love for him. You do not want that to happen so you are never going to be around him when he’s in a rage. Instead you will leave to give both of you time to calm down and collect your thoughts. Tell him that it’s his responsibility to calm himself down, collect his thoughts and talk to you in a respectful manner. Suggest that he find ways to calm down like going for a walk, bike ride, going to a quiet room. What it takes.. he needs to learn to do this.

When I did the “STOP” technique with my husband it worked. It worked. Within a fairly short time the angry outbursts stopped because I never stuck around for them… never allowing them to even happen. My husband found that going for a long bike ride helped him calm down so he’s just grab his bike and head out the door.

If you are consistent with this is works.

3)	Your husband needs to stop drinking to the point of him getting into these states. Search in your area for a doctor who treats alcoholics with techniques other than AA. Here is an article for you to read. 

The Irrationality of Alcoholics Anonymous

It is not your job to fix him. But you can encourage him to do things that he needs to do.

Read the book “Co-Dependent No More”. You need it. You are enabling his drinking and bad behavior. Co-dependency is when you put his needs ahead of your own to the point that it starts to harm you emotionally and mentally. It’s a natural reaction to a bad situation.



Feeling-Lonely said:


> I don't know what to do. He gives me pretty secure life and all but is abusive (sometimes). Is it better to be with someone less smart, less successful just because they never lose control?


Why do you assume that a man who does not lose control will be less smart and less successful? This makes no sense at all. There are plenty of good men who do not lose control, who are very smart and very successful.



Feeling-Lonely said:


> Am I going to know when enough is enough or I just have to make the decision and get myself out of here?


Go to counseling as I suggested above. They will work with you. Hopefully they will help you find ways to fix the marriage. But if it cannot be fixed, they will help you develop a safety plan and help you determine when and if it’s time for you to leave.



Feeling-Lonely said:


> He is not going to do marriage counseling, I know that. I bought the book "His needs Her needs" personally, thought it wasn't very helpful. To sum it up, according to the author women need security and men need sex. We have both of those but it still is not working.


Marriage counseling is useless right now. A marriage cannot be worked on when one spouse is being abusive. You need individual counseling as I mention above. Once his angry outbursts stop (stop technique?) you can then start looking into fixing the marriage.

It sounds like instead of the HN/HN book, you need to read “Love Busters”. Your husband’s behavior is a HUGE love buster. Love busters kill your love for him. It takes a lot of good loving things to replace the damage done by one love buster.. especially one as HUGE as his drinking and out bursts.


Feeling-Lonely said:


> I am a doormat when I don't fallow up with my promises. I have said I will leave if he yells again and he has yelled again and I am still here.


You do not follow up because you are co-dependent. You are not taking care of yourself.

Since you are incapable right now of actually leaving, use the “STOP” technique. That way you are not making a decision right now to leave your marriage. You are just not engaging in the angry outbursts and being his audience.

Keep mind that one of the best ways to save a marriage is to really let your spouse know that you will divorce him. Often times that will shake a person up to the point that they change and see the light. But you have to be ready to do this. So don’t threaten it until you are really reading to follow through with leaving if he does not do whatever you and your counselors come up with that he has to do to keep you in his life.


----------



## FizzBomb (Dec 31, 2013)

I would advise you to leave this relationship. The push/pull, extreme ups and down. You are addicted to the highs. You know this is an extremely unhealthy relationship that is bringing you down. More lowpoints than highpoints. You deserve better.

From experience (emotionally/psychologically abusive boyfriend) this is how I did it:

1 DETACH EMOTIONALLY: Distance yourself emotionally. (to help this process, write down all the horrible things he has done to you (and read it FREQUENTLY) and ask yourself if you would treat him this way.) Goes without saying: _ don't let him find this list._

2. Along the same lines practice a soft 180 - I say soft b/c only you know how violent he'll get when he senses you pulling away.

3. Get *secret *plans ready to move (preferably near family for support) and tell family what is going on. I didn't have to do this last step b/c I was living at home with parents.

4. Get into IC and find out why you are attracted to this abuser and why you stayed so long. So that when you're healed your next relationship will be healthy, easy and enjoyable with the normal ups and downs.


----------



## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

You are not going to convince him to go to counseling. You are not going to get him to AA. You are not going to reason with an alcoholic abuser.

What you ARE going to do is scare the S*#t out of him.

You know those highs you feel when things are good? He feels them also. He is not the kind of guy who would hit a woman. Sure, he has a tantrum every now and then, but "SURELY she knows that's not me. Look how great we are 90% of the time. She forgets and forgives as soon as they are over. After-all, look how much we love each other"

What he DOESN'T know is how you fear him still in those good times. That the 90% of the time that things are great, you are walking on eggshells waiting for his next outburst. You can't live that way. That's where the scaring the crap out of him comes in.



Feeling-Lonely said:


> I have planed a trip back home to visit my family soon...


You write him a letter. You do it so that he opens it after your plane is in the air. Put it somewhere that you can text him "look in the cabinet nest to the cooking spray" (just in case you miss the flight or it is cancelled you can regroup).

In that letter you tell him how his drinking and temper have you living in fear 100% of the time and you can't do it any more. You changed your flight to one-way and will be staying in your home country. You will not be coming home. You'll send for the rest of your things later. Then you go dark for a while and watch your phone light up.

You need to read a lot of threads on this site. Pay close attention to all of the men who were "shocked" to find out their wives had fallen out of love with them. Every single one will then go on to list what drove their wives away. They KNEW they were doing it but they didn't stop. But now that their lives just disintegrated to dust they'll do ANYTHING to get their wife back. Problem is, for almost all of them it is too late. She is gone

I can guarantee your husband doesn't know how far gone you are. And I can GUARANTEE this kick in his gut will get him to AA. Get him to counseling. Get him to anger management. Get him to do anything you want him to do.

It's going to be hard. You will need to plan. I don't know if you work, but you may even need to quit your job if they can't give you open ended extended leave. You are living a nightmare. You have to fix it.

I was your husband. The list of things that drove my wife away wasn't exactly the same as yours, but it's close. I was just thinking last night while I was walking. Just last night thinking of a moment that happened over four years ago that altered my life forever. And in hindsight, I even see it was for good. After prodding and prodding I finally got my wife to blurt out a single sentence that changed me forever. That one horrible moment made me realize that:

a - my wife was gone.
b - she will be forever.
c - ...get ready... IT WAS ALL MY FAULT.

I changed IMMEDIATELY. The realization that I was the kind of man that could do that to a woman I love. That I could drive away the greatest thing that had ever happened to me. That I caused SO MUCH PAIN in both of our lives.

My DNA changed immediately. I changed into a new man. The man she always wanted me to be. But it was too late. She was gone.

You are lucky. You came to us before it was too late. But it is going to take work. And it won't be easy. But he needs his world to crumble for him to rebuild it. 

Good luck to you.


----------



## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Just the fact that you came to the ladies lounge to get into the head of a man tells me you have NO CLUE what you're dealing with.


----------



## Feeling-Lonely (Nov 13, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> If you want to try to keep this marriage, there are some things I suggest.
> 
> 1)	You get in to counseling for domestic abuse (emotional & physical). Find a local organization that provides counseling for victims of abuse. They are much better suited to help you than a normal counselor. Yes he is emotionally abusing you with his outbursts, the kicking, and the slapping. While he has not really hurt you with the kicking & slapping it’s a very common type of message that physical abusers use. You even said it yourself. You are concerned/afraid that at some point he might do it a lot harder. He is threatening to harm you. (Does he also do things like break things, throw things, punch walls, furniture?)
> 
> ...



Thank you for this great advice. 

I will have to go for a walk or a drive next time he is angry and stay away a while. I don't think he will yell and rage by himself. When I am in a house doesn't matter what room he still yells because he knows I can hear him. 

The stop technique isn't going to work here because he would take it as me being bossy. He will say: "You don't tell me to stop!" I will just leave. 

I caught myself thinking again about the last time and if I hadn't reacted that way, maybe it was my fault, maybe I initiated. I didn't like that he acted drunk in front of my friends. He also danced and sang in front of a restaurant. Which shouldn't be a big deal right? He likes to draw attention to himself. I am easily embarrassed, my cultural heritage as a northerner is very cool and calm and keep it to your self. When we dated that was something I liked about him, that he was different and didn't care much what others think.

Anyway, I said something like, why do you have to act like a drunken idiot in front of my friends and he got upset and kicked me in my butt. I hit him back with my purse. I know, physical violence is not acceptable, doesn't matter who hits first. I know that. But the fact of matter is that I did hit back. 

We went home and he screamed at me for a half an hour, fallowed me to a guest bedroom and kept screaming till I said nothing. 

This is one example and I feel like I wasn't in the right how I acted. I apologized about that. I was controlling in this situation and was first to use poor language. That doesn't excuse his kicking me and me hitting him back with my purse.

I apologized and said that we have to stop acting so poorly to each other and screaming and physical violence is not acceptable. He didn't say that he agrees. He is still mad that I hurt him, I have a pretty big purse. I am not trying to be funny here. 

Anyway, Thanks for all the advice.


----------



## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Feeling-Lonely said:


> The stop technique isn't going to work here because he would take it as me being bossy. He will say: "You don't tell me to stop!" I will just leave.


Yeah. My first thought was that you could get hurt trying that one. I mean PHYSICALLY injured. I would have LOVED my wife holding up her stop sign hand while I was raging. Back in the day.




Feeling-Lonely said:


> I will have to go for a walk or a drive next time he is angry and stay away a while. I don't think he will yell and rage by himself. When I am in a house doesn't matter what room he still yells because he knows I can hear him.


OK. Good plan. I am so glad we could help. I wish they were all this easy. I'm glad you will be good with being out of the house so much for the next 30 years. So, you will live in a LITTLE BIT of terror while you fear, 24-7, of him bursting in the door in a drunken rage at any moment and doing some SERIOUS damage. But that's a small price to pay for not having to deal with the situation.

Good luck. I REALLY wish I could get my wife to talk to you.


----------



## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Macho, that was one hell of the post. 

Feeling lonely - unfortunatly, you are still in denial phase. you really believe that this is best you can get in life? 

My husband was somewhat like that, but without alcoholism and physical abuse. When it was great, we were flying. And then we were crushing. Things did not changed until I asked for divorce. Now we are working on it. It looks good. But it won't happen wihtout you shattering his world. He is too comfortable right now, and has no reason to change. 

It took me 20 years. Don't wait that long, this won't be improving, the opposite.


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

MachoMcCoy said:


> You are not going to convince him to go to counseling. You are not going to get him to AA. You are not going to reason with an alcoholic abuser.
> 
> What you ARE going to do is scare the S*#t out of him.
> 
> ...


Feeling-Lonely, you should really (really!) pay attention to this ^^^.

It is on the money.


----------



## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

I think she is not ready yet to face it


----------



## maritalloneliness (Mar 18, 2015)

He can have PTSD, especially if he was in the service. He might not even be aware of this so he uses alcohol as a coping mechanism. I have a brother in law that does the same thing. Very nice guy until he drinks and he also served in the military.


----------



## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> Am I suppose to leave my H because of his bad qualities and look for "better man" which isn't likely I will find.


You don't leave a marriage to find another man. You leave a marriage because you've tried to resolve issues and can't and the situation is unbearable. You need to be ok with yourself and take the risk of being single for the rest of your life. If you think you're leaving for someone better...you need to resolve the issues with yourself before you move better with any decision.



> I don't know what to do. He gives me pretty secure life and all but is abusive (sometimes). Is it better to be with someone less smart, less successful just because they never lose control?


This is the second red flag in your post that indicates you have serious things to deal with on a personal level separate from your relationship.

Anyone who makes the choice to stay with a verbally abusive guy because he's successful has problems. What about you getting successful and standing on your own feet so that you can be in a relationship of equals and have some leverage on your own terms.

When I left my marriage....I did it with the knowledge that A. I might be alone for the rest of my life and I was fine with that and B. That I was very capable of taking care of myself. I was successful and financially secure. I certainly didn't need to put up with my crappy marriage because I needed his success or money.

You have some work to do on yourself.


----------



## FizzBomb (Dec 31, 2013)

Read and note what EnigmaGirl has posted. You need to work on yourself before you even think about hitching your wagon to someone else.

And I totally agree with WandaJ - You are in denial big time. You don't want to face your reality. And that's ok. Hopefully in your own time you will. You come across almost 'helpless' and 'stuck' as if there is no way out and you have no choices. You DO have choices but you need to see the situation for what it is and not how you wish it to be.

Read your initial post again but read it through the eyes of a friend/daughter/sister telling you their situation. What would you advise them to do?

Is this really how you wish to spend the rest of your life?


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Very few people posting on TAM have great marriages. Many people tell you to leave because they hung on too long and want to help other people not to do the same.


----------



## Feeling-Lonely (Nov 13, 2013)

An update,

I am still in Europe and I feel great. I feel ok physically and mentally, one other reason for me going to Europe was to see a doc as my physical health was also suffering, I suspect from the stress. I had a really bad/scary experience with ovarian cyst that really had all the symptoms of an ovarian cancer, but thankfully it wasn't that. 

I am going to do blood test too and perhaps CT scan to see if everything is ok as I still feel pains and aces and nausea sometimes.

I realize my way of thinking was - if there is something wrong with me physically and I can blame it on stress I have a legit reason to leave. for myself. I know I have a lot of reasons to leave this relationship but I have that need to justify them, like I have no choice but to leave.

I was very much emotional and PMSing and wrote a long email to H telling him how I feel. I will just post it here and his answer. 

My email;

"I know you are busy and I am on a vacation and it sucks that I'm not helping but it's either I get my head straight or we break up. I was really low and felt physically sick and constantly stressed out. 

We were fighting terribly. Don't deny it. I was going to leave because I couldn't do it anymore. The fighting the stress, I don't know what constantly brought that on because from a side I have a perfect life. 

Even now I feel like you are making sacrifices so I can have a vacation. But it wasn't like that. I didn't leave because I wanted to. I was really hurt and confused. I know I am not such a strong person like you and I don't handle stress that well. 

I need less to be happy, I could easily sacrifice some quality of life for less stress. I could live like my sisters and be happy with less. You are always making sacrifices for others it seems and your glass is always half empty. 

I am tired of fighting and I cannot live like we used to. You are saying that things will be easier now that you have a job security, that we could have a family but I'm not sure that is what you want. Another headache for you, another thing to work for. I am conflicted, from one hand I feel bad I am here from the other hand it was either I am here for a vacation or I am here forever. I needed to get away and clear my head. 

Right now I stand were I can come back and stay forever, I love you but if it will be too hard, too much fighting and too much stress, I can go back being student, renting a room. It would suck at first but it wouldn't kill me, what would kill me is making you miserable for the rest of your life. 

Figure out what you want and what makes you happy and if you want me to be part of it."

His answer:

I've had it with this one.
If you think any sister of yours has "less stress" than you have here; go try it. "

I try to think of the good times and our future we have planned but all I can think of is the bad. The time he was yelling as I was sleeping in a bed, he came and sat next to me and kept yelling, I sit up close to his face and he head butted me and said- don't get into my face! The times he has been yelling and raging and called me names. I know there were initial conflicts and hostility from my part too but I honestly believe nothing I did deserved such extreme counter reaction. I mean, what does?.. 

I kinda feel it is over. I will go back and tell him that I can't have kids in an environment were yelling, name calling and physical abuse takes place. I will ask him these three things, No yelling, no name calling and no physical confrontation. I promise those from my part as well. I am not even asking him to lay off the beer every night. I think I know how it will end, he will throw a fit as he doesn't even like to talk about it. he will blame me for his reaction. I will either have to swallow it or leave. God, give me strength. (I don't even believe in God). 

Have a good day guys, thanks for previously expressed support and good advice.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

So why would you even go back?

There is no fixing a marriage until he had dealt with his alcoholism and his anger.

While some people will have a life-altering experience when their spouse leaves or threatens to live, most do not.

Your husband had not had that life altering experience.
Mine did not either.

You cannot fix this. If you go back, it will be more of the same ... or it could be worse because he will need to exercise more control on you.


----------

