# Differing libidos



## discern (Jan 1, 2013)

I am re-married, thanks to this platform which offered tremendous advice about not settling for a dysfunctional marriage which I'd been in for 14 years, and I did not even know was dysfunctional until I found out that she was cheating. My religious convictions had blinded me to the emotional abuse. Fast forward to today, I am happily re-married, we have 4 kids between us. She is also divorced.

3.5 years into the marriage, the sex is now a challenge. It was not in the beginning. She's 46, I am 47. I keep fit (healthy mind, healthy body philosophy) . As a result, my sex drive is pretty healthy. She does not believe in being fit, prefers using medication, or is considering surgery etc. I have accepted my ways are not always what everyone wants.

Essentially, I now have to masturbate more regularly like every day just to release the pressure. She knows about it, I have told her about it. We only make love once in a while (probably once a month) but the fact that I know she is not enjoying it makes me not want to do it. For the first time, I no longer condemn my friends who get prostitutes - I always thought those friends were "immoral". But now I understand why prostitutes are an essential service. Sex is an important act - masturbation does not help much, sex is much better. I love my wife, but the lack of sex is causing us loads of tension - which results in unhappiness in the marriage.

Have we tried counselling - not as yet. Any advice is welcome!


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

She needs to get hormone levels checked. 1x a month i would be looking for evidence of someone else.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

discern said:


> Essentially, I now have to masturbate more regularly like every day just to release the pressure.


Honestly, you sound like a dog in heat. Every day to "relieve the pressure" just sounds freakin' ridiculous. It's not a necessary bodily function like breathing or sleeping, so let's stop acting like it is.



> But now I understand why prostitutes are an essential service. Sex is an important act - masturbation does not help much, sex is much better.


Talk about living for your damned genitals.

What do you do the other 16.5 minutes a day when yu're NOT thinking about your penis and how deprived you are?

Go get yourself a prostitute since you now think they're "essential" workers. I don't even know how to answer this self-indugant idiocy.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Honestly, you sound like a dog in heat. Every day to "relieve the pressure" just sounds freakin' ridiculous. It's not a necessary bodily function like breathing or sleeping, so let's stop acting like it is.
> 
> Talk about living for your damned genitals.
> 
> ...


Wow, way to shame someone for not being happy about being in a sexless marriage, in his 40s.

OP it seems you may have chosen unwisely a second time around. Now you might know the reason her first marriage didn't work out.

Have you talked to her about your lack of intimacy?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Livvie said:


> Wow, way to shame someone ...


You new here?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Second, relatively new marriage and already the lack of intimacy hits home. After my first sexless marriage, if I'd inadvertently chosen another woman like that I'd have filed for divorce if the problem wasn't resolved within a few months (or at least serious attempts made to find and fix any medical reasons for this, or psychological).


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Cletus said:


> You new here?


Ha that made me smile.

I'm always amazed at both the shaming for wanting a fulfilling sex life, and advice to happily accept a sexless marriage "because menopause" that goes on here.

Marriage is a sexual relationship. If you don't want to have sex with your spouse, you are friends. Stay friends then, and get divorced so you can go on to develop a full, intimate relationship (more than friendship) with someone else.


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## Aviator (Oct 22, 2020)

How do you know she isn't enjoying it? Did she tell you that?


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

discern said:


> Have we tried counselling - not as yet. Any advice is welcome!


Do a Google search for "Ted Talk Sex Starved Marriage". It's only 15 minutes long, and I think you'll find it very interesting. Then get your wife to watch it with you. She may have an "Oh my gosh, that's me" moment. 

An interesting thing I've learned over the years of rejection I've had. Rejection (of intimacy) causes you to think so much more about sex than otherwise is the case. When you are secure and not worried about being rejected, sex doesn't dominate your thinking. It's a pleasant part of life that has its place. This is something many don't get. The lower libido partner will often say "Is EVERYTHING about sex???!!!" And the truth may be, that person, the lower libido partner, has created that situation.


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## discern (Jan 1, 2013)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> just sounds freakin' ridiculous. It's not a necessary bodily function like breathing or sleeping


Ha ha ha... this is really funny. I laugh because I used to be like that in my religious former self. I condemned what I did not understand. FYI: All men masturbate - we just don't talk about it.


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## discern (Jan 1, 2013)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Go get yourself a prostitute since you now think they're "essential" workers. I don't even know how to answer this self-indugant idiocy


another funny remark - really! Understanding something does not mean I will go with it. I think once you go down that lane, one never really recovers. There is a reason it is called the "oldest trade".


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## discern (Jan 1, 2013)

Casual Observer said:


> Do a Google search for "Ted Talk Sex Starved Marriage". It's only 15 minutes long, and I think you'll find it very interesting. Then get your wife to watch it with you. She may have an "Oh my gosh, that's me" moment.
> 
> An interesting thing I've learned over the years of rejection I've had. Rejection (of intimacy) causes you to think so much more about sex than otherwise is the case. When you are secure and not worried about being rejected, sex doesn't dominate your thinking. It's a pleasant part of life that has its place. This is something many don't get. The lower libido partner will often say "Is EVERYTHING about sex???!!!" And the truth may be, that person, the lower libido partner, has created that situation.


Wow - brilliant advice! Thanks for the referral - let me go watch it now.


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## discern (Jan 1, 2013)

Aviator said:


> How do you know she isn't enjoying it? Did she tell you that?


Yeah, when she gets into it, she enjoys it. But like many women will say, sometimes (half of the time) they fake it to make us happy.


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## discern (Jan 1, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> Second, relatively new marriage and already the lack of intimacy hits home. After my first sexless marriage, if I'd inadvertently chosen another woman like that I'd have filed for divorce if the problem wasn't resolved within a few months (or at least serious attempts made to find and fix any medical reasons for this, or psychological).


Early in the marriage, it was rocking! This challenge has been over the last year mainly - started with her getting hot flashes, then fear of menopause then...


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## discern (Jan 1, 2013)

Livvie said:


> Have you talked to her about your lack of intimac


Yeah, we have talked about it - many times the conversation ends up in her crying and saying she feels terrible that her sex drive is low. I think it's a way of her ending that conversation.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

discern said:


> Early in the marriage, it was rocking! This challenge has been over the last year mainly - started with her getting hot flashes, then fear of menopause then...


She might consider hormone replacement therapy if her doctor/specialist thinks it is safe and useful for her. There are a variety of pills and creams that can help.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

discern said:


> I am re-married, thanks to this platform which offered tremendous advice about not settling for a dysfunctional marriage which I'd been in for 14 years, and I did not even know was dysfunctional until I found out that she was cheating. My religious convictions had blinded me to the emotional abuse. Fast forward to today, I am happily re-married, we have 4 kids between us. She is also divorced.
> 
> 3.5 years into the marriage, the sex is now a challenge. It was not in the beginning. She's 46, I am 47. I keep fit (healthy mind, healthy body philosophy) . As a result, my sex drive is pretty healthy. She does not believe in being fit, prefers using medication, or is considering surgery etc. I have accepted my ways are not always what everyone wants.
> 
> ...


Has she said why she no longer wants sex? Can you agree to a compromise of say once a week? 

You mentioned religious convictions, so are you both religious? Christians? If so try some good Christian marriage counselling. God does have things to say about sex in marriage, and that is not to deprive each other. 
Going to a prostitite is immoral, there are no two ways about it, so dont go there.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Married but Happy said:


> She might consider hormone replacement therapy if her doctor/specialist thinks it is safe and useful for her. There are a variety of pills and creams that can help.





discern said:


> Yeah, we have talked about it - many times the conversation ends up in her crying and saying she feels terrible that her sex drive is low. I think it's a way of her ending that conversation.


I wish she could understand that you dont have to always feel like having sex or have a high sex drive in order to have and enjoy sex with our spouse. It can be a lovely time of closeness and intimacy regardless, and to know that she is giving her spouse pleasure and meeting his needs is surely positive if there is love there?


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

discern said:


> Wow - brilliant advice! Thanks for the referral - let me go watch it now.


Unfortunately, it took 42 years for me to become "brilliant." The plan is to dramatically shorten your learning curve, and offer some insight into how rejection can heighten the seemingly, to her, preoccupied with sex issue. Which, frankly, came out pretty strongly in your opening post as well. But I get it. Totally. And now I think you're beginning to as well.


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## discern (Jan 1, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> Has she said why she no longer wants sex? Can you agree to a compromise of say once a week?
> 
> You mentioned religious convictions, so are you both religious? Christians? If so try some good Christian marriage counselling. God does have things to say about sex in marriage, and that is not to deprive each other.
> Going to a prostitute is immoral, there are no two ways about it, so don't go there.


Good points, she just says she no longer feels like it. Yes, we are both Christians but not religious - I was religious in my first marriage, as in, overly zealous about right/wrong. I am less religious - more spiritual now. Let me see about that compromise - that TED talk is actually very insightful. We'll see about watching it together.


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## discern (Jan 1, 2013)

Casual Observer said:


> Do a Google search for "Ted Talk Sex Starved Marriage". It's only 15 minutes long, and I think you'll find it very interesting.


I just watched it - oh my gosh! It totally speaks to our situation. Thanks again.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

discern said:


> Good points, she just says she no longer feels like it. Yes, we are both Christians but not religious - I was religious in my first marriage, as in, overly zealous about right/wrong. I am less religious - more spiritual now. Let me see about that compromise - that TED talk is actually very insightful. We'll see about watching it together.


I am not in the least religious either, that isnt a term I ever use to describe myself as a Christian. It was just that you used it so I did. I hope that your wife can learn that she can enjoy having sex with you whatever she 'feels' like and that God, who is FOR marriage is also FOR sex.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

discern said:


> I just watched it - oh my gosh! It totally speaks to our situation. Thanks again.


My wife was in tears after watching it. BUT. Emotions are temporary and do not create change. That Ted Talk formed the basis of recognizing the NEED to change, but you still have to WANT to change. And that's not so easy. We tend to self-center back to how we've been doing things for years. It needs to be watched more than once.

Of course, an advantage is that you haven't wasted years and years in a marriage filled with rejection. She still has memories of how things used to be, because it wasn't that long ago.

I wish you the very best, and truly believe you've got a great shot at things working out. Do realize, though, that if you go to therapy, including a sex therapist, you may be told point-blank that it's not your wife's responsibility to take care of all of your sexual needs. I still have a hard time with this, because it's an opt-out for the low-drive partner, who will take it as a black & white statement. All of a sudden it becomes your problem, not theirs. I don't understand why therapists sometimes say the things they do without understanding how they can be twisted.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

You haven’t learned the main lesson yet - don’t marry. 

Sex is great before marriage, household chores, bills and daily life sets in. 

Men are often accused of being dogs (as you have experienced here) and that men are the ones that crave variety and novelty and are thus promiscuous.

But the reality is women are actually the ones that lose sexual interest in a long term relationship more than men. Men often remain interested in sex with their partner long term. Women seem to lose interest and then blame work, stress, health, tiredness blah blah blah.

The real libido killer here is marriage and cohabitation itself.

If you get divorced, she would lose weight, get a new wardrobe, get her hair and nails done, squeeze into uncomfortable shoes and lay her next man like tile. 

The lesson here is don’t remarry.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

discern said:


> For the first time, I no longer condemn my friends who get prostitutes - I always thought those friends were "immoral". But now I understand why prostitutes are an essential service. Sex is an important act - masturbation does not help much, sex is much better. I love my wife, but the lack of sex is causing us loads of tension - which results in unhappiness in the marriage.
> 
> Have we tried counselling - not as yet. Any advice is welcome!


Since your only problem you discuss is sexual, try counseling with a Sex Therapist. It helped save my sex starved marriage.

Cheating on your wife will just increase the problems you will need to address if you want to save your marriage. I understand the temptation, the feeling of entitlement when in a sex starved marriage. It is not the answer and will not provide any solutions.

For me, "making love" or the emotional connection associated with sex in a long term committed relationship is what I really want. "Just Sex" with my wife is almost as good, because it can often give me the illusion of making love and emotional connection and intimacy.

Sex with a prostitute or a one night stand would just be meaningless sex. No emotional connection associated with building and maintaining a long term relationship. I strongly suggest that you figure out what it is that you really want and if it is just orgasmic release or sex with strangers, don't bother to try to save your marriage.

Good Luck.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> You haven’t learned the main lesson yet - don’t marry.
> 
> Sex is great before marriage, household chores, bills and daily life sets in.
> 
> ...


Sex in marriage is the best sex, with full committment to each other.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> Sex in marriage is the best sex, with full committment to each other.


You don't get it. A woman will phase out sex once she's scored the marriage partner. 

But if he divorces her, she'll lose weight, update herself, and hop on the lots of sex train to try to bag a new dude.

And no I'm not talking every woman. But a lot of them.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Livvie said:


> You don't get it. A woman will phase out sex once she's scored the marriage partner.
> 
> But if he divorces her, she'll lose weight, update herself, and hop on the lots of sex train to try to bag a new dude.
> 
> And no I'm not talking every woman. But a lot of them.


Absolutely true, and men will similarly lose interest in what's in front of them after the hunt is over, right? The excitement of the hunt and the conquest is primal. Not every man.

The goal should be to properly vet the LTR early on. Go over boundaries & privacy issues and what you expect 5, 10 & 20 years down the road. Create accountability. And if that seems unreasonable, then don't expect the LTR to turn out the way you wish 5, 10 & 20 years down the road. There is virtually no pitfall to the LTR that isn't a cliche, isn't frequently discussed here, and yet they persist and people act surprised. 

Therapy comes far too late for most. It, or something like it, should occur early in the marriage, before the various relationship-killing milestones occur. Before you have kids, talk about how things might change, how the wife might seem to be more in love with the kids and running the house than she is with the husband. Talk about how the husband might feel pushed aside and work his butt off as the provider yet feel greatly unappreciated for doing so. And each will say no, we won't let that happen, that's not who I am, that's not who he is. Then revisit the couple while pregnant, and again at some point not long after birth. Maybe whenever postpartum depression is known to kick in.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Casual Observer said:


> The goal should be to properly vet the LTR early on. Go over boundaries & privacy issues and what you expect 5, 10 & 20 years down the road. Create accountability. And if that seems unreasonable, then don't expect the LTR to turn out the way you wish 5, 10 & 20 years down the road.


If you are fortunate enough that you both stay on the same page, _perhaps_. Mostly, this idea seems delusional.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Married but Happy said:


> If you are fortunate enough that you both stay on the same page, _perhaps_. Mostly, this idea seems delusional.


There are no corrective measures taken if you don’t recognize an issue. To recognize things one of you don’t want to deal with, they have to have been previously defined and discussed. We go into this stuff without enough thought.


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## Aviator (Oct 22, 2020)

discern said:


> Ha ha ha... this is really funny. I laugh because I used to be like that in my religious former self. I condemned what I did not understand. FYI: All men masturbate - we just don't talk about it.


I don't.... not that it matters. Perhaps it gives your wife an out or is a secret turn off.. she knows your desire for her is shallow because you can just go take care of yourself after all. Maybe this causes a loss of respect a bit... that you are engaging in this juvenile behavior and even envying friends and their prostitutes. Maybe she's tired and instead of going along with you're desire she's more thinking "he can go do his little deed".

My wife is pretty reactive... I don't masturbate but I will pretty much sort of require/demand/beg my wife to give herself to me... sometimes she ends up getting into it and it becomes something fantastic (getting rarer the older we get).

A prostitute probably doesn't enjoy sex with clients either... isn't it an acting job?(I have no personal experience with this and only spoke to one prostitute that I know- lol).


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Casual Observer said:


> Absolutely true, and men will similarly lose interest in what's in front of them after the hunt is over, right? The excitement of the hunt and the conquest is primal. Not every man.


I truly do not believe men lose interest sexually in their partner the way women do. 

I think if a man is sincerely attracted to his partner and they really click sexually in the beginning and he thinks of her as his sexual match,,,, that interest and desires continues long term. 

Sure he may still think other women are hot and he may even look back at his bachelor days with some fondness, but he doesn't truly loose love and desire and attraction for his partner unless she makes some very significant changes for the worst. 

And by changes i don't mean putting on 10 lbs or developing a new hobby of fostering orphaned kittens from the rescue or league or even completing an education or starting a new job. I mean more like putting on 50-100lbs or turning into a raving lunatic or simply rejecting him relentlessly for years. 

Men don't really lose a desire that truly there to begin with. It may wax and wane over time and everyone kind of settles down after the honeymoon phase/NRE has worn off. 

But 10, 15, 20 years later, most men are still interested in an active sex life with their wives. 

Countless women however completely lose all attraction and desire for their husbands however. And I'm not just talking about not being horny or not having a spontaneous desire to jump their H's bones. I am talking about an actual repulsion and an active wanting to avoid all sexual contact with them. Or at the very least, just sucking it up and gritting their teeth on the H's birthday or their anniversary and praying that it gets over quick. 

You just don't see that in men very often. And if it does happen, men are often able to give a direct cause such as a wife's affair or years of rejection by wife or wife gaining 100lbs etc. You don't hear men say, "I just don't feel that way about her anymore." or ILYBNILWY like you do with women.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> I truly do not believe men lose interest sexually in their partner the way women do.
> 
> I think if a man is sincerely attracted to his partner and they really click sexually in the beginning and he thinks of her as his sexual match,,,, that interest and desires continues long term.
> 
> ...


In general I agree. But the context was that men are these wild animals that have been tamed to act against their natural instincts to rape & pillage, and I just don't think this is true. Or if you want to believe it is, I don't see it as much different than saying women really aren't that much into sex to begin with and that the only reason they go through a period in which they are is because they're trying to attract a male. That, just like for guys, it's entirely a biological programming that has to be subverted through training (learning ethics & morals). There's some truth to it, but not enough to claim universality. We know of many women who maintain a strong interest in sex throughout their lives, sometimes greater after menopause. We know of many women who never "transition" from wanting sex to the capturing a mate programming. No interest in "capturing" for purposes of an LTR or even to just have kids. 

We are not slaves to some sort of biological destiny. And yet I do agree with you, that sexuality is something that keeps (many) men strongly attached to their wives, even when not reciprocated. Men bond sexually to their partners, which is ironic, because traditional wisdom is that it's the woman who initially bonds with a partner through sex. Loss of virginity is typically seen as a bonding experience more for women than men. Women, it's said, see first-time sex as something leading to a more emotional and long-term relationship. Men, it's said, see first-time sex as something leading to... more sex.

So there we have the real contradiction. It starts one way for women, but evolves into that direction, over time, for men. This, I think, is so much more important than the static model (Men are from Mars, Women from Venus).


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Casual Observer said:


> In general I agree. But the context was that men are these wild animals that have been tamed to act against their natural instincts to rape & pillage, and I just don't think this is true. Or if you want to believe it is, I don't see it as much different than saying women really aren't that much into sex to begin with and that the only reason they go through a period in which they are is because they're trying to attract a male. That, just like for guys, it's entirely a biological programming that has to be subverted through training (learning ethics & morals). There's some truth to it, but not enough to claim universality. We know of many women who maintain a strong interest in sex throughout their lives, sometimes greater after menopause. We know of many women who never "transition" from wanting sex to the capturing a mate programming. No interest in "capturing" for purposes of an LTR or even to just have kids.
> 
> We are not slaves to some sort of biological destiny. And yet I do agree with you, that sexuality is something that keeps (many) men strongly attached to their wives, even when not reciprocated. Men bond sexually to their partners, which is ironic, because traditional wisdom is that it's the woman who initially bonds with a partner through sex. Loss of virginity is typically seen as a bonding experience more for women than men. Women, it's said, see first-time sex as something leading to a more emotional and long-term relationship. Men, it's said, see first-time sex as something leading to... more sex.
> 
> So there we have the real contradiction. It starts one way for women, but evolves into that direction, over time, for men. This, I think, is so much more important than the static model (Men are from Mars, Women from Venus).



As threads go on, they tend to get branch off into other topics and some times people end up discussion things that they aren't even sure where they got started.  

If it was something I said earlier in the thread, I did not say that men's natural instinct is to rape and pillage. My point in the thread is that often it is being with someone long term and committed by legal marriage that can term a woman's sexual desire for her partner south. 

I think and I have heard enough evidence and have seen enough here and other forums, that long term committed relationships have more of a detrimental effect on women's sexual desire for their spouse than it does on a man's sexual desire for his spouse. 

IMHO it doesn't have anything to do with raping and pillaging at all. 

Gather up a bunch of couples that have been together exclusively for 20 years and ask them on a 1-10 scale how much sexual interest and desire they have for their spouses. 

Men may come in somewhere around 5, 6, 7 on average. 

Women may come in around a 2 or 3 if the guys are lucky. 

There will be outliers in each. There will be a few guys that have dropped off the charts and there may be be a few women that are still burning it up. 

But generally speaking, I imagine that those that have dropped into the 0-2 catagories will be almost entirely women and those in the 8-10 ranges will be almost exclusively men with very very few men in the bottom range and very, very few women in the 8-10 ranges.


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