# Why do men have EA's?



## Daisy10 (Nov 10, 2013)

I've heard it said time and time again (esp. by men) that men cheat just for sex, so tell me, why do men have emotional affairs?


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Various reasons I suppose, some have an EA to later escalate it to a PA.

Get them hooked emotionally and the physical will follow.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

You should ask Remorseful Strayer...


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Men have EA's for the same reason women do. Women have PA's for the same reason men do. None of it is gender specific.

C


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## Daisy10 (Nov 10, 2013)

WyshIknew said:


> Various reasons I suppose, some have an EA to later escalate it to a PA.
> 
> Get them hooked emotionally and the physical will follow.


Hoards of guys look for these things online, some cross-country, which is baffling. I really don't think there's much thinking of a PA involved to begin with.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Daisy10 said:


> Hoards of guys look for these things online, some cross-country, which is baffling. I really don't think there's much thinking of a PA involved to begin with.


True.

Perhaps they just like looking at lady bits. (If they can get the woman to post pics)


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## Daisy10 (Nov 10, 2013)

WyshIknew said:


> True.
> 
> Perhaps they just like looking at lady bits. (If they can get the woman to post pics)


You can see lady bits all over the internet for free. 

(maybe read that^ sentence again and again) 

It's more than just pictures or sexting. There is something about talking to the woman in the EA that the men like.


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Men have emotional affairs as a stepping stone to a physical affair. 

It think EAs that can't be consummated are likely just PA's on training wheels. Simple as that.

As a man, I already have someone to "share" with. I don't need two of them telling me about their problems. If I were ever going to stray, it sure wouldn't just be to talk over coffee.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Daisy10 said:


> You can see lady bits all over the internet for free.
> 
> (maybe read that^ sentence again and again)
> 
> It's more than just pictures or sexting. There is something about talking to the woman in the EA that the men like.


I don't know really.

Why complicate it?

It's sex, they can do it, it's 'naughty', it's someone elses wife.

And within reason you are allowed to look at the free lady bits, so not so much 'fun'.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

My husband did it for the ego stroke. It's validating to have a beautiful woman you'd like to sleep with telling you what you want to hear all the time in the complete absence of any reality-based issues. 

He would certainly have slept with her eventually, but she "couldn't do that to Rowan." He wasn't smart enough to figure out that meant she'd friend-zoned him because she wasn't into him sexually. But the buzz from "love" and "tragically thwarted desire" , the titillation, the enticement of having his little secret, and the bonus of getting something over on me (his terrible wife) was plenty to keep him going with her for several years without sex. 

Of course, he was also sleeping with me as well as several other OW at the same time, so perhaps he was just tired.


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## Daisy10 (Nov 10, 2013)

MovingAhead said:


> You should ask Remorseful Strayer...


He got banned, iirc, but he didn't seem so remorseful.



WyshIknew said:


> I don't know really.
> 
> Why complicate it?
> 
> ...


Exactamundo, which makes it a good question still. 
and it doesn't have to be with someone else's wife. It could be with a single woman. I honestly feel like it's the emotional connection they also desire.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

MovingAhead said:


> You should ask Remorseful Strayer...


Nope. Ask me.

I wanted someone to talk with who hadn't broken my heart. Just someone to talk with.

And so it went...


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Daisy10 said:


> Exactamundo, which makes it a good question still. and it doesn't have to be with someone else's wife. It could be with a single woman. I honestly feel like it's the emotional connection they also desire.


Most guys who cheat do it primarily for the sex. Not that they don't want or need some level of emotional connection, just that, if it was ONLY emotional, they would be out. You never hear a guy who got caught cheating say, "I felt like I had to give in and have sex with her in order to keep the attention coming." But that is not an uncommon statement from a woman who gets caught cheating.

I'm sure there are a very small group of guys who would be happy only with the emotional part, without any sex involved at all. In my opinion, a tiny subset. The large majority, if there's no sex involved, they wouldn't bother with the emotional part at all. Not that they don't like the emotional part, but that's not enough without the sex.

Some guys are done with their wives, looking for another woman to commit to them, before they ditch their wives. These guys are looking for a relationship, a place to land, because they don't want to just divorce and be single, they won't divorce until they have some other woman already lined up. In my opinion, a small subset.

Most guys who cheat, in my opinion, are not looking to divorce, just looking for some extra sex and excitement. Over 50%. They are not "in love" with the other woman, even though they may say they are. When they get caught, they don't leave. Many will take it underground. But when push comes to shove, they want their wife at home and their other woman on the side.

Most women who cheat are willing to trade sex for attention, it starts with the attention, then it leads to sex. Most guys who cheat are willing to trade attention for sex, they know they have to give the attention in order to get the sex. Attention and sex flows both ways, the guys like the attention, too, but they start out being more interested in getting the sex, later on they may become emotionally attached.

I think most single guys and women who date, it's somewhat the same. Most single guys are pushing for sex, they know they have to "romance" their dates to get it. Maybe they fall in love somewhere along the way, but their initial urge is sexual.

I have absolutely nothing to back this up other than my personal experience, observing people I know and people I don't know over the years. Nothing on this forum has changed my perception.

If you are a man and had an affair for mainly emotional reasons with sex being of minor importance, or if you are a woman who had an affair for sexual reasons, with emotional connection being of minor importance, I think you are in the minority.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Contrary to popular belief men want to be heard, admired and respected as much as women do.

I'm with Pbear EA's aren't gender specific.

Read the book Not Just Friends. Plenty of examples of men in EA's.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Daisy10 said:


> Hoards of guys look for these things online, some cross-country, which is baffling. I really don't think there's much thinking of a PA involved to begin with.


There isn't. I was in an EA. I had never heard of an EA.

My emotional needs were either a) unmet or b) unmeetable because I am a narcissistic ass according to some of the betrayed here. It was nice to talk to someone of the opposite sex who made me feel good about myself for a change. It started easily and breezily. It got quite a bit more intense as time went on.

My wife and I have since started communicating better and filling those needs.


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

Some men like to feel they are helping these female friends, they like the adoration and feelings of understanding from these women.
Some men also like the secrecy, the thrill of the affair. They like to know that they could bang them if they wanted to. THey feel something is lacking in their marriage, but are content, and leaving would be too complicated.


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## Daisy10 (Nov 10, 2013)

Rowan said:


> My husband did it for the ego stroke. It's validating to have a beautiful woman you'd like to sleep with telling you what you want to hear all the time in the complete absence of any reality-based issues.
> 
> He would certainly have slept with her eventually, but she "couldn't do that to Rowan." He wasn't smart enough to figure out that meant she'd friend-zoned him because she wasn't into him sexually. But the buzz from "love" and "tragically thwarted desire" , the titillation, the enticement of having his little secret, and the bonus of getting something over on me (his terrible wife) was plenty to keep him going with her for several years without sex.
> 
> Of course, he was also sleeping with me as well as several other OW at the same time, so perhaps he was just tired.


I was with you, up until that last line. I wasn't really talking about men who are sleeping with several OW at the same time.




MattMatt said:


> Nope. Ask me.
> 
> I wanted someone to talk with who hadn't broken my heart. Just someone to talk with.
> 
> And so it went...





JCD said:


> There isn't. I was in an EA. I had never heard of an EA.
> 
> My emotional needs were either a) unmet or b) unmeetable because I am a narcissistic ass according to some of the betrayed here. It was nice to talk to someone of the opposite sex who made me feel good about myself for a change. It started easily and breezily. It got quite a bit more intense as time went on.
> 
> My wife and I have since started communicating better and filling those needs.


Thank you. It's especially helpful to hear from men who have experienced it. I know a lot of men who have not been on that end like to speculate why these guys do it, but it's good to hear directly from ones who have done it.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Still trying to figure out why my WW has so many. No morals.
Selfish. Seems like many married females are having them. 

Maybe seems like she likes single guys.


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## Daisy10 (Nov 10, 2013)

harrybrown said:


> Still trying to figure out why my WW has so many. No morals.
> Selfish. Seems like many married females are having them.
> 
> Maybe seems like she likes single guys.


Are they all single? I know you may find this hard to believe but there are a lot of single men who would never touch a married woman.


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

PBear said:


> Men have EA's for the same reason women do. Women have PA's for the same reason men do. None of it is gender specific.
> 
> C


Exactly....women do it as well. I'm going through it with my wife as she did it al of Sept till Oct 4th when I caught her.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Control issues, want to have some autonomy, something that W doesn't get to decide on, and which they don't have to compromise, make nice-nice, get permission...

Knowing that they're still attractive to someone.

Having options, and feeling secure in the options.

Being listened to.

Having someone who is available and isn't asking for money to have the driveway paved or the living room furniture re-upholstered.

Something to do when they've had a few beers and the W finds them disagreeable (and tells them so.)

Fear of death. 

Shared interests that W doesn't have. 

Curiosity in lifestyle different than their own.

Voyeurism, fulfilled (access to another person's personal life.)

Networking/financial & job hedging.

Personalized porn even if it's soft porn, better than 800 number and doesn't show up on credit card. 

On a more sinister level might want to be able to manipulate another person, and is not emotionally attached at all, other than to self and manipulation needs.

Or, marriage is dead, has been dead for years (sometimes decade) and has friendship that really doesn't involve sex and never will, i.e. man is gender-neutral in his choice of friendships, and W is making the case that wrongness of EA trumps 10 years of no sex due to her lack of interest. 

As above, gender-neutral friendships where no sex is involved and often no sexual interest either. I have male friends I wouldn't give up if involved in an intimate relationship with a guy.

Because he can, and does. And when someone can, and does, you can't just undo an emotional attachment. People are like cats, they pick their favorites and that's that. Even women get jealous of their women friends' other friendships, and for all I know men are jealous of their men friends' other friendships, at times. 

There's a fine line between overindulgence in an emotional attachment, and being properly emotionally attached to people who can enrich your life in one way or another.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> Control issues, want to have some autonomy, something that W doesn't get to decide on, and which they don't have to compromise, make nice-nice, get permission...
> 
> Knowing that they're still attractive to someone.
> 
> ...


You know one of the main things that launched the EA into a near night of PIV sex? (unprotected, at that) was a mutual interested in Star Trek: Voyager. 

So hard for me to believe and I know it is true.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Daisy10 said:


> I've heard it said time and time again (esp. by men) that men cheat just for sex, so tell me, why do men have emotional affairs?


So they can eventually have sex.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

WyshIknew said:


> Various reasons I suppose, some have an EA to later escalate it to a PA.
> 
> Get them hooked emotionally and the physical will follow.


Those women that have to be wooed, make it all the more exciting for them. They're a diversion from the mundane life of the regular sex they're getting from some other woman. 

Well, sometimes, anyway.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

I'm in a 20+ year marriage. I found out a few years ago that she hasn't really liked me for most of that time. Possibly was NEVER into me physically. I'm staying with her for the family and for my own security. I REALLY need somebody to be into me again. Whether physical (preferred) or emotional (I'll take it).

I need to feel wanted. I don't know how much more of this I can take. I can see where an emotional affair would probably help a lot.

But the MAIN reason men probably choose EA's is the hope of future sex. We like sex. And preferably from someone who likes it with us.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Daisy10 said:


> I've heard it said time and time again (esp. by men) that men cheat just for sex, so tell me, why do men have emotional affairs?


The same reason women do..

Its not a gender thing.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I have some ideas......

A man will engage in an EA (or some form of inappropriate relationship with the opposite sex when he is married) because

1. He wants to appear hip and capable of being "just friends" with the opposite sex and doesn't understand what this relationship actually looks like to others.

2. He is passive aggressive and consciously or subconsciously gets a thrill from pitting his wife against one other person, a lifelong female friend (from the neighborhood, university, whatever).

3. ETA: Whether it is someone he used to date or someone that he has never dated, he may still want to use an EA as a way to groom someone for a PA. One thing that I noticed both with my exH and my fiance, they end up finding themselves at a juncture in which they believe that their behavior "had led someone on." Was that the effect that they were looking for? .... so that they have a reason to continue the relationship with that person..... the only way to make amends, perhaps......

Of course, these can be the same reasons that a woman might have an EA.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Daisy10 said:


> I've heard it said time and time again (esp. by men) that men cheat just for sex, so tell me, why do men have emotional affairs?


Read Glass, she breaks down in % what men look for in an affair vs women.

It's not just sex, but sex is a greater part of the pie for men in an affair than it is for women.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I should also add, if your husband sees himself as a "loyal friend" to his buddies, it also possible that he can start inappropriate relationships with his buddy's wife. 

So, okay, maybe your husband would never dream of poking his best buddy's wife, but he won't mind being "her servant"; making decisions to her favor and to his wife's disfavor; unfavorably comparing his wife to his friend's wife and so on......


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

NextTimeAround said:


> I should also add, if your husband sees himself as a "loyal friend" to his buddies, it also possible that he can start inappropriate relationships with his buddy's wife.
> 
> So, okay, maybe your husband would never dream of poking his best buddy's wife, but he won't mind being "her servant"; making decisions to her favor and to his wife's disfavor; unfavorably comparing his wife to his friend's wife and so on......


Which treads on emotional affair.


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

Fooling around with friends in anyway is not cool. It's just plain low.
EA's come in all shapes and sizes I guess.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I've heard men use the excuse, "I love women". 

Well, yeah, so do I. Why didn't I have one or more EA's, then?

:scratchhead:

There's someone for everyone, even if you are not attracted to them. They can still be used to prop up your self esteem.


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

Well, according to my WH (who, BTW, I don't believe for a second regarding his EAs being just that), it was never about sex. It was about manipulation and control. 
To paraphrase him: "I didn't want them for sex. I wanted to see how much I could get out of them without doing anything. I could get them to talk/text dirty to me, share their intimate details and fantasies, send me pics, call and text me all the time, stroke my ego, and I didn't have to do a thing in return. I never sent them pics ( I checked the phone bill - all picture messages were incoming), I never took them out, I never bought them things, I never did a thing for them, but yet they were fawning all over me."

Again, I don't believe that was the ONLY thing happening, unless there are stupid women out there who would give up just about everything for a man who clearly offers nothing in return... actually on second thought, I know PLENTY of women like that!

Hmmmmm. 

What a sick, twisted world "Affairland" is. Everyone is mentally unhinged it seems...


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

ScorchedEarth said:


> Well, according to my WH (who, BTW, I don't believe for a second regarding his EAs being just that), it was never about sex. It was about manipulation and control.
> To paraphrase him: "I didn't want them for sex. I wanted to see how much I could get out of them without doing anything. I could get them to talk/text dirty to me, share their intimate details and fantasies, send me pics, call and text me all the time, stroke my ego, and I didn't have to do a thing in return. I never sent them pics ( I checked the phone bill - all picture messages were incoming), I never took them out, I never bought them things, I never did a thing for them, but yet they were fawning all over me."
> 
> *Again, I don't believe that was the ONLY thing happening, unless there are stupid women out there who would give up just about everything for a man who clearly offers nothing in return... actually on second thought, I know PLENTY of women like that!*
> ...


Is your husband a manager or in some other way have some social status. For your husband to get off on those arrangements, it sounds as if something is wrong with him. but still I'm m curious as to what these woman are getting out of him.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

Poor boundaries in my case. I became too close and more than a friend and didn't realize it until my wife brought it up. I wasn't looking for it or anything like sex it just happened because I didn't pay attention to boundaries to keep the relationship with my wife primary. Now I have much better boundaries. My story is also in my signature link Listen to your Spouse.


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

NextTimeAround said:


> Is your husband a manager or in some other way have some social status. For your husband to get off on those arrangements, it sounds as if something is wrong with him.  but still I'm m curious as to what these woman are getting out of him.


He was at the time (he no longer works there). He wasn't, however, upper level management, so it's not like he could've helped promote them or get any sort of advantage in the workplace. OW1 was his departments secretary, and the other girl was a contractor. I guess on the totem pole he was higher than them, but again, not high enough to be of any assistance if they were looking to climb up the ladder. The common thread with the two was both were divorced, single moms. OW2 was twice divorced with three kids! I guess she was looking for husband/ baby daddy #3. Anyway, the whole thing is jacked up. I don't know what or who to believe. Both OWs deny any physical contact. So.... It was either some weird, bullcrap mind game for all concerned, OR they all made a pact to deny to the end. I will never know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

^^ I suppose I should add that he was an alcoholic. As in $200 a night bar-tabs alcoholic. As in DUI arrest alcoholic. That *may* have also played a part in his behavior.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

ScorchedEarth said:


> ^^ I suppose I should add that he was an alcoholic. As in $200 a night bar-tabs alcoholic. As in DUI arrest alcoholic. That *may* have also played a part in his behavior.


those women probably also enjoyed the freebies that came with that. 

I noticed 2 large charges at bars with my fiance's EA. And then months later, under the guise of "just friends", my fiance received an invitation to her 30th b-day party the day of. (I'm guessing her bf didn't want him to come so waited until the day of to send the invitation through FB when they were FB friends.) That evening around closing time of the pub, she texted him verbatim "Why didn't you come?"


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

NextTimeAround said:


> those women probably also enjoyed the freebies that came with that.
> 
> I noticed 2 large charges at bars with my fiance's EA. And then months later, under the guise of "just friends", my fiance received an invitation to her 30th b-day party the day of. (I'm guessing her bf didn't want him to come so waited until the day of to send the invitation through FB when they were FB friends.) That evening around closing time of the pub, she texted him verbatim "Why didn't you come?"



Oh, I'm sure. Of COURSE he is full of denials, saying that it is easy to rack up a $200 bar tab on your own when you buy top-shelf ****tails (and he was a top-shelf drinker. Our house was filled with Moet, Grey Goose, Gentleman Jack - no cheap stuff!). It may be true, it may not. No way for me to know. He may have been so drunk that other people were just taking advantage of his open tab, maybe he was giving large tips to the female bartenders in a pathetic attempt to be some big-shot. Who knows. What I do know is he is a liar, so there is no point in digging for details.

IF he didn't actually consummate these relationships, IF they were just talk and fantasy... wow. It's unimaginable that anyone would throw away EVERYTHING just for fantasy and mind-games. I almost feel like "Well, dang! If you were going to go through all this, and go through all this effort, you may as well have taken it all the way. At LEAST get something out of it! Who throws away their family for silly games?" 

So stupid. :loser:


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## Daisy10 (Nov 10, 2013)

ScorchedEarth said:


> IF he didn't actually consummate these relationships, IF they were just talk and fantasy... wow. It's unimaginable that anyone would throw away EVERYTHING just for fantasy and mind-games. I almost feel like "Well, dang! If you were going to go through all this, and go through all this effort, you may as well have taken it all the way. At LEAST get something out of it! Who throws away their family for silly games?"
> 
> So stupid. :loser:


Men do that with porn addictions all the time. Some like to go to strip clubs. It's an addiction and one they find to be "harmless" because they feel like they haven't done anything physical with women. I bet your WH was jerking off a lot whilst thinking about these women. He was just feeding his spank bank.


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

Daisy10 said:


> Men do that with porn addictions all the time. Some like to go to strip clubs. It's an addiction and one they find to be "harmless" because they feel like they haven't done anything physical with women. I bet your WH was jerking off a lot whilst thinking about these women. He was just feeding his spank bank.


Yeah, and that would be somewhat believable except for the fact that he did have a porn problem, a strip club problem, a "lying about who he was calling at all hours of the night" problem, a "several female phone numbers in his phone" problem... you get the drift.

He had FAR too much opportunity not to take it. Weekly "business" trips out of state, and coincidentally in the city where both OWs lived? Yeah... the likelyhood of fantasy, while not impossible, is very improbable.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

I think EA's for both men and women happen because they aren't getting their emotional needs met at home. Now this could be from their own fault or their spouses.

They could have a loving open spouse at home that for whatever reason they don't open up to OR it could be because they have an emotionally unavailable spouse at home. 

I think once they find someone who strokes their ego a bit they can dive right in. In a lot of ways you can see how insecure and unhappy someone is by how quickly and deeply they fall into an affair in my opinion.


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

2yearsago said:


> I think EA's for both men and women happen because they aren't getting their emotional needs met at home. Now this could be from their own fault or their spouses.
> 
> They could have a loving open spouse at home that for whatever reason they don't open up to OR it could be because they have an emotionally unavailable spouse at home.
> 
> I think once they find someone who strokes their ego a bit they can dive right in. In a lot of ways you can see how insecure and unhappy someone is by how quickly and deeply they fall into an affair in my opinion.


If all that is true, then I should have had a million affairs by now. 

Married 10 years to a porn/alcohol/sex/strip club/spending/gambling addict who went through wild mood swings of treating me like a princess to not talking to me for days. 

Still, and in spite of all the crappy treatment, I stayed faithful. Never even thought about running to the arms of another man to "save me". I did the best with what little I had. Perfect? Noooooo way! After so many years, I shut down. Openly admit it. Gave up. Just tried to get through day by day as best I could. I'm sure the shutdown fueled his chasing other women, but the shutdown happened as a result of years of mistreatment.

No, people just have affairs because they want to. There is no "reason". It just comes down to "I wanted to".


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

For a man, an EA is the waiting period...its all part of the work they have to put in to get to the sex...period!!!

So many women fall for it too..."oh but he loves me, he is going to leave his wife for me"...um ok it does happen, but sweets, you are in the minority if it does...he is saying whatever ne needs to say to get waiste deep in the vagi-gi


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## Daisy10 (Nov 10, 2013)

ScorchedEarth said:


> Yeah, and that would be somewhat believable except for the fact that he did have a porn problem, a strip club problem, a "lying about who he was calling at all hours of the night" problem, a "several female phone numbers in his phone" problem... you get the drift.
> 
> He had FAR too much opportunity not to take it. Weekly "business" trips out of state, and coincidentally in the city where both OWs lived? Yeah... the likelyhood of fantasy, while not impossible, is very improbable.


Some of them like to flirt around with danger for a while first, like a cat playing with a toy, before diving in, especially if they're unsure if the rewards will definitely outweigh the risks. The flirting turns them on too. It sounds like your exH was well practiced with fantasy and the "look-but-don't-touch" phenom. If he hadn't touched by the time you left him, he would have eventually.


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

Daisy10 said:


> Some of them like to flirt around with danger for a while first, like a cat playing with a toy, before diving in, especially if they're unsure if the rewards will definitely outweigh the risks. The flirting turns them on too. It sounds like your exH was well practiced with fantasy and the "look-but-don't-touch" phenom. If he hadn't touched by the time you left him, he would have eventually.



Well, that's the thing. After years of lies, there is nothing I can ever believe to be the truth. 

He may well have never touched. Oh well. No way for me to know, and combined with all the other stuff, no real reason to believe. 

I hope my story hits someone like a ton of bricks - you may never touch, but it doesn't matter. Trust takes YEARS to build and seconds to destroy. You lie - you're done.


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

Ugh
trigger, trigger, trigger.......

But I am forcing myself to read this, I am filling my heart of triggers, so I will stop caring.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

kristin2349 said:


> I think for my WH, it started with a MLC add the attention and fawning adoration of a younger woman who looked up to him. It was at a time when we were struggling in our marriage, he was also struggling personally.
> 
> His career is at an all time high, he is good looking, well educated and has a big title and the paycheck and perks to go with it.
> 
> ...


You're not alone.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

NextTimeAround said:


> You're not alone.



I know, I hate that we are all here . At the same time I am so grateful for all of the advice and support.

I do wish it had been a ONS sometimes. There is something so utterly painful about the idea that he looked me in the eye and lied over and over. And that he was sharing how he was feeling and all of his positive energy with her. In that time he demonized me (I'm sure to feel less sh!tty about what he was doing)

There are days that I wonder why I don't hop on the Alimony Pony and ride off into the sunset.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

kristin2349 said:


> I know, I hate that we are all here . At the same time I am so grateful for all of the advice and support.
> 
> I do wish it had been a ONS sometimes. There is something so utterly painful about the idea that he looked me in the eye and lied over and over. And that he was sharing how he was feeling and all of his positive energy with her. In that time he demonized me (I'm sure to feel less sh!tty about what he was doing)
> 
> There are days that I wonder why I don't hop on the Alimony Pony and ride off into the sunset.


Kristin, just curious...... when you were looking for advice were you chastised for denying your husband "the right" to have friends. Or that if you address directly the relationship it would make you look jealous and insecure?


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

NextTimeAround said:


> Kristin, just curious...... when you were looking for advice were you chastised for denying your husband "the right" to have friends. Or that if you address directly the relationship it would make you look jealous and insecure?


Well, during that time I did feel jealous and insecure. I knew something was going on so I asked about the obvious females he has contact with. He laughed it off. But it was during his midlife crisis that he all of the sudden felt the need to talk to text with and socialize with (with me included in most) other OS friends. Some are friends of the marriage. But during that time he was like a rebel teenager. A totally different person. He ranted at me that he can do what he wants. Like I was controlling him. He sounded about 8 when he did it.

When I found this site I immediately checked out phone bill and it was right there. He was talking to someone every day. I paid for a reverse cell lookup and I saw the name and knew who she was. So he was talking about other women he was really platonic friends with to throw me off the trail.

I didn't really seek the "advice" of many people. Because I knew their perception of my H was a "good guy". I knew what he was doing was wrong. I spoke to one good friend only about it and even though she is very well aware of EA's she defended him at first. Told me that wasn't in his DNA. When I told her the details after she asked questions. She realized how serious it was.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

missthelove2013 said:


> For a man, an EA is the waiting period...its all part of the work they have to put in to get to the sex...period!!!...


No, that`s not necessarily true at all. You can`t lump all men in the same basket,... just like women, men have EA`s for a number of different reasons, and some, just like women, are starving for attention. Plenty of men in EA`s never actually have sex with the OW, and the same can be said for women. It`s not always the first thing on their minds, and it could be the farthest thing from their minds.

A neglected spouse, IMO, is prime for an EA. Of course not every neglected spouse will have and EA, but it does happen. They don`t feel special, appreciated, loved, etc. Happens to both sexes.

People fantasize about all sorts of things...some just want affection, some want to feel a connection, and yes, some just want to get laid. 

In no way do I condone affairs in any circumstance, but I don`t think it`s fair to assume all men only think with their d1cks.


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

missthelove2013 said:


> For a man, an EA is the waiting period...its all part of the work they have to put in to get to the sex...period!!!
> 
> So many women fall for it too..."oh but he loves me, he is going to leave his wife for me"...um ok it does happen, but sweets, you are in the minority if it does...he is saying whatever ne needs to say to get waiste deep in the vagi-gi


Quoted for truth, except I am now far more cynical about how innocent and involuntarily seduced the women in affairs are. Yes, for appearances' sake, they have to be the "taken" one, but they all went into affairs knowing full well what they were doing.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

tulsy said:


> A neglected spouse, IMO, is prime for an EA. Of course not every neglected spouse will have and EA, but it does happen. They don`t feel special, appreciated, loved, etc. Happens to both sxes.


Agree. I've been on the edge of EA's a few times, for whatever reason - ego stroke, attention, the possibility of s**, etc. Neglect your spouse, and they might become an easy target for predators.


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

:scratchhead: Umm, what?


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

maggie3 said:


> i have seen him complain online to women about me, though. golly, is complaining an emotion?


To some predators, a spouse complaining about their marriage is giving out a green light to ramp things up.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

maggie3 said:


> as it turns out, there is no one place on this forum for the multitude of things going wrong in my marriage.
> 
> why do men without emotions have emotional affairs. that is my question.


There is a long list of answers to your question. Only your H can tell you why he did it.

On the forum thing, have you started your own thread with the details of your situation? If not, do that, and I'm sure you'll get good advice.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

maggie3 said:


> thunderstruck, i'm terrified to share my life with him with others. that's why we haven't been to marriage counseling. we tried once, and it was awful. not to mention incredibly expensive. i feel like it would cost thousands to treat us in an office. we are so in debt from the gaming, there's just no money left...


There are so many different situations discussed here. There are so many people with great insight and all sorts of perspectives. So IMO it can be more useful than IC or MC in many ways. You are getting insight from so many viewpoints instead of one MC.

I really think that good MC can be so very hard to find. If you happen to find one I still think that it is difficult. I found in IC that on my appt. day I might not have been in the mood to dig it up and rip the bandage off. And there is the time constraint. So having someone you can talk to is invaluable. 

There are all sorts of stories posted here and so many understanding people willing to give advice. I'd put the shame aside and give us a shot.

If not for this place and my best girlfriend. I really don't know where I'd be right now...Take care OK


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

tulsy said:


> No, that`s not necessarily true at all. You can`t lump all men in the same basket,... just like women, men have EA`s for a number of different reasons, and some, just like women, are starving for attention. Plenty of men in EA`s never actually have sex with the OW, and the same can be said for women. It`s not always the first thing on their minds, and it could be the farthest thing from their minds.
> 
> A neglected spouse, IMO, is prime for an EA. Of course not every neglected spouse will have and EA, but it does happen. They don`t feel special, appreciated, loved, etc. Happens to both sexes.
> 
> ...


there is NO such thing as ALWAYS and NEVER...there will be exceptions to the rule...but imo your "neglected spouse" is the exception to the rule...most men who have affairs want physical sex affairs...for the sex...

look at a SINGLE man, in his 20's, who wants sex...generally speaking if he could have quick one nighters constantly, he would...but those are few and far between, so, he "dates"...he plays the "getting to know each other better" game until the sex happens...again im not talking ALL men...but most men, look back at your 20's when you were single...I equate this to men who are married and open to or looking for affairs, their mindset is that of an immature single 2o something...and again, its not ALWAYS or ALL men...im sure there are a few who just want to be held and cuddled :smthumbup::smthumbup::rofl:


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

maggie3 said:


> thunderstruck, i'm terrified to share my life with him with others. that's why we haven't been to marriage counseling. .


Then...do it here. Nobody knows who you are, so blast away. You may learn something that helps you.


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

tulsy said:


> No, that`s not necessarily true at all. You can`t lump all men in the same basket,... just like women, men have EA`s for a number of different reasons, and some, just like women, are starving for attention. Plenty of men in EA`s never actually have sex with the OW, and the same can be said for women. It`s not always the first thing on their minds, and it could be the farthest thing from their minds.
> 
> A neglected spouse, IMO, is prime for an EA. Of course not every neglected spouse will have and EA, but it does happen. They don`t feel special, appreciated, loved, etc. Happens to both sexes.
> 
> ...


EAs turn sexual REAL QUICK! Read through the myriad posts here, just about every EA involved sexting and nude pics being exchanged. Add to that the ability for the persons involved in the EA to be in close physical proximity to each other and I find it VERY difficult to believe that so many lines could be crossed... but not THAT one. 

Now granted, I can only speak for my situation, but I find it very hard to believe my WH could have multiple EAs, where sexting and nude pics were involved (them to him) AND him being in their physical presence every day (co-workers), but yet somehow, with all that sexual tension and energy, NEVER consummating the relationship.

Just doesn't fly.


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

Actually, I think men can have EA's based on reading His Needs, Her Needs. I believe my H had his EA due to a lack of "recreational companionship". While the fault for the EA lays 150% firmly on him, I can admit to being 50% of the problem that contributed to problems in the marriage. Some guys really do want more than sex. Some really do need emotional attention and companionship.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

yeah_right said:


> Some guys really do want more than sex. Some really do need emotional attention and companionship.


I'm that big pu$$y...


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## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

maggie3 said:


> deleted my post :/ i'm so ashamed of my life.


Maggie there is no need to be ashamed but reading along, we just can't hear your inflections and follow your train of thought.

Start your own thread and the good people here will be really happy to help you pick through the issues you're struggling with.


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## sedona (Oct 10, 2013)

I think there should be another category besides Emotional Affair or Physical Affair. I don't know what it would be, but it's something my H would fit into. Something like an Ego Affair. Ego Fuel. 

I do not believe sex is the main thing with him crossing boundaries. I also do not think it's because he's seeking a truly bonding emotional experience. I give him all the sex he wants and any way he wants it, and I couldn't possibly be anymore available for emotional bonding. I'm not saying these factors will stop someone who simply is a selfish jerk or wants new stuff, but pointing out that is my situation. 

Any time I know he's crossed a boundary it's been some sort of ego fuel. All about HIM and whomever is the most willing to fill up his ego tank. It's almost like he doesn't make the choice to target the woman most attractive, but the woman whom is an attention junkie and needs shallow ego stroking as much as he does. Someone in another thread said it perfectly about beautiful women get all the blame, but it's the plainer ones who lap up any sort of attention whatsoever are the ones most likely to be an AP. This has always been my experience. I think if anyone actually wanted a dinner or an I love you, he'd be done with that. If anyone pushed for sex, idk, of course I'm worried he would/has, but I really do not think it's the motivating factor. 

And sorry, I do not at all believe men are more prone to affairs mostly for sex than women are. Not at all, but women are every bit as sexually motivated as men. I do think a lot of men like to convince themselves otherwise because it enrages them to consider that women will go out and get strange sex for no other reason than that. It seems sometimes men like to "blame" some other factor, as if the sex was secondary to seeking an emotional bond, or an expectation of the OM.


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## Daisy10 (Nov 10, 2013)

What about when a man turns down sex _offered _to him, but wants to keep flirting and talking? Wouldn't that be a desire for an EA only? (and yes that happens)


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

Daisy10 said:


> What about when a man turns down sex _offered _to him, but wants to keep flirting and talking? Wouldn't that be a desire for an EA only? (and yes that happens)


And who is this man? And where is he? Hanging out with the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny? :rofl:


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

Daisy10 said:


> What about when a man turns down sex _offered _to him, but wants to keep flirting and talking? Wouldn't that be a desire for an EA only? (and yes that happens)



Daisy the only men I've seen do that are my gay guy friends. Love to flirt and share everything and they will turn sex down. 

Straight guys who only want an EA are in the minority (just an educated guess). Eventually it just gets there, men are goal/result oriented. Just my .02


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## unheld (Sep 20, 2013)

missthelove2013 said:


> there is NO such thing as ALWAYS and NEVER...there will be exceptions to the rule...but imo your "neglected spouse" is the exception to the rule...most men who have affairs want physical sex affairs...for the sex...
> 
> look at a SINGLE man, in his 20's, who wants sex...generally speaking if he could have quick one nighters constantly, he would...but those are few and far between, so, he "dates"...he plays the "getting to know each other better" game until the sex happens...again im not talking ALL men...but most men, look back at your 20's when you were single...I equate this to men who are married and open to or looking for affairs, their mindset is that of an immature single 2o something...and again, its not ALWAYS or ALL men...im sure there are a few who just want to be held and cuddled :smthumbup::smthumbup::rofl:


I don't think you can compare single guys doing the accepted and normal courtship and mating dance thing to a man who has pledged vows of fidelity to a woman for life and ALSO goes out and does the courting/mating dance... albeit in a creepier and more predatory way online.

Single guys are doing the socially accepted thing. Married guys who go hunting online for whatever reason are doing something that is predominantly NOT socially accepted.

I also think that some guys get into the EA thing because they are too chickens**t to do the deed for real and can hide behind the relative anonymity of the Internet and pretend they are daring alpha-men who get any woman they want. I think many guys don't want to give up the family/kids/comfort of marriage but still want the thrills of the chase, the ego-stroking and the fantasy of being some swashbuckling d**k-slinger. 

I think for many of them, they are perfectly content to send pix, naughty chat and masturbate in front of their computers, but if the actual flesh-and-blood fantasy woman made an appearance they'd freak out and run for the hills


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## Jeffster (Nov 26, 2013)

Hi, I am a man who is somewhat emotionally involved with someone other than my significant other (GF). It has been going on for over 6 years. I say somewhat because the feelings seem to come and go on both our parts and have only rarely ever been sexual on either of our parts, but there is no doubt that we have feelings for each other.

Btw, my girlfriend knows all about this and I've never hidden anything from her. She didn't really like it at first, but she became okay with it several years ago when she realized it wasn't ever going to become sexual and they have since become friendly.

I have to say that there have been about two times that she wanted to get physical, but the thing was I didn't want to cheat, she is 23 years my junior and I had mixed feelings about ruining our friendship. I love that we are best friends and cherish it very much. 

Even if I was single at the time, I doubt I would've gone for it with her even though I find her attractive and I am not gay. This happened when she ended relationships with a couple of her boyfriends. I also found that she is one of the only women I have ever known who didn't get offended or resentful over getting turned down. That is a rare woman, indeed!

I know from the fact that many other people have told each of us that our relationship is very weird, unusual or downright strange that it is not at all common, but it works for us.

We have actually gotten in fights a few times and "broken up" for fairly long periods, but something always brought us back together. For example, we have recently gotten closer because I have recently realized that it is an almost absolute certainty that my GF is cheating on me and my "girl friend" has given me tons of invaluable advice and has been there for me all along. I actually don't know what I would do without her. It's almost as if God sent her to me for just this reason.

Incidently, this has never happened to me before with any other girl as other emotional affairs i had always went sexual.

It's funny, but this relationship has been one of the best of my life even though there is no sex. The most we have ever done is hugged. There is just something about having a girl as a friend that no guy friend could ever provide. I can talk with her more openly, get female opinions, share my feelings without feeling like a wimp or for fear of being judged. It's just nice... Like having a special relationship with a trusted and admired sister.

In closing, I am so glad I met her and that we never slept together. I think a lot of time sex only complicates matters. I actually don't care about her any less than any other woman I've known, (including sexually), but it's just that it's in a completely different and unique way. This actually makes it more special if any of that makes sense.

Another possibly interesting thing is that we actually say I love you to each other all the time, but even though we surely both mean it, we both know it has a different meaning than it would if we were having a physical relationship. We both know we are each free to date and sleep with anyone we choose without any feelings getting hurt. For me, this freedom makes our relationship completely free of any jeolousy or insecurity and this is something I've rarely had with any other girl....


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## Daisy10 (Nov 10, 2013)

ScorchedEarth said:


> And who is this man? And where is he? Hanging out with the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny? :rofl:


It really did happen and I'm asking for an explanation.


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## Daisy10 (Nov 10, 2013)

ScorchedEarth said:


> And who is this man? And where is he? Hanging out with the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny? :rofl:





Jeffster said:


> Hi, I am a man who is somewhat emotionally involved with someone other than my significant other (GF). It has been going on for over 6 years. I say somewhat because the feelings seem to come and go on both our parts and have only rarely ever been sexual on either of our parts, but there is no doubt that we have feelings for each other.
> 
> Btw, my girlfriend knows all about this and I've never hidden anything from her. She didn't really like it at first, but she became okay with it several years ago when she realized it wasn't ever going to become sexual and they have since become friendly.
> 
> ...


Is there heavy flirting and sexual hinting between you two or just platonic yet deep friendly chats?


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## Daisy10 (Nov 10, 2013)

unheld said:


> I don't think you can compare single guys doing the accepted and normal courtship and mating dance thing to a man who has pledged vows of fidelity to a woman for life and ALSO goes out and does the courting/mating dance... albeit in a creepier and more predatory way online.
> 
> Single guys are doing the socially accepted thing. Married guys who go hunting online for whatever reason are doing something that is predominantly NOT socially accepted.
> 
> ...


This is on point to me.


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## CaptainLOTO (Nov 6, 2013)

Daisy10 said:


> What about when a man turns down sex _offered _to him, but wants to keep flirting and talking? Wouldn't that be a desire for an EA only? (and yes that happens)



That was me. I was just profoundly lonely. I had years of a depressed wife who had essentially "abandoned me in place". I needed companionship and my wife wasn't willing or able to provide it. (My wife was very sexual, so I didn't need to seek that from elsewhere and NEVER wanted to cross that line.)

At the time I felt that my male friends were not safe to be vulnerable with and I needed a deeper connection with someone. (I've since decided that if I can't be real with my friends, then they aren't really friends. It's been amazing how my leadership in opening up has been reciprocated and appreciated by many men.)

So, at the time, an EA seemed like a rational choice (given my very distraught state of mind at the time. :scratchhead: ) Strangely, it was my AP who pointed out to me that I wasn't really looking for a lover and that I was just lonely. She hit the nail on the head. Maybe it wasn't even an EA because I didn't really "feel" much for her, she was just a pleasant companion who I hid from my wife, and kissed. Or maybe the kissing makes it a PA, depends on your definition I suppose.

It's not justified but it did teach me about myself and force me to see some of my own shortcomings so I think I'm a better person as a result of what I learned from my mistakes.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

kristin2349 said:


> Daisy the only men I've seen do that are my gay guy friends. ....


Plenty of straight guys want an emotional connection, something their wives aren't giving them. It's a lot more common than you realize.



Hardtohandle said:


> I'm that big pu$$y...





CaptainLOTO said:


> That was me. I was just profoundly lonely. I had years of a depressed wife who had essentially "abandoned me in place". I needed companionship and my wife wasn't willing or able to provide it. .....





Jeffster said:


> Hi, I am a man who is somewhat emotionally involved with someone other than my significant other (GF). ...It's funny, but this relationship has been one of the best of my life even though there is no sex. .....





unheld said:


> I don't think you can compare single guys doing the accepted and normal courtship and mating dance thing to a man who has pledged vows ...Single guys are doing the socially accepted thing. ...I also think that some guys get into the EA thing because they are too chickens**t to do the deed for real ...


Exactly, it's not the same thing. Single guys in their 20's who hang out at bars and try to be pick-up-artists compared to married men...not the same ballpark. Not every emotional affair is a shroud of manipulation for sex.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Daisy10 said:


> What about when a man turns down sx _offered _to him, but wants to keep flirting and talking? Wouldn't that be a desire for an EA only? (and yes that happens)


Yeah, it happens. A man can lie to himself and think that what he's doing (the EA) isn't quite as bad as actually nailing someone other than their W.

It doesn't mean he's gay, LD, or that the tooth fairy is involved in any way.


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## Jeffster (Nov 26, 2013)

There is no flirting between us other than just very warm and friendly conversation. There used to be a little when we first met, but that was a long time ago.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

Jeffster said:


> There is no flirting between us other than just very warm and friendly conversation. There used to be a little when we first met, but that was a long time ago.


So are you open and honest with your partner about this friend? Is there no jealousy (on your end if she is dating and doesn't have the same kind of time for you or you for her).

What you are describing is pretty rare and if you enter into relationships with your female friend being a pre existing condition. It is really up to the other person to decide if they are OK with that.

That is far, far different than a person in a committed relationship developing a relationship (even if it never becomes sexual) diverting energy that should be focused on their partner. Lying and hiding to keep up communications.

For me it was the lying and covering up about the EA that has been really hard to get past. If it was all innocent and was going to stay that way, then it should all be out in the open and no one gets hurt.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

ScorchedEarth said:


> And who is this man? And where is he? Hanging out with the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny? :rofl:


I've been offer sex without any flirting and had a nude woman in my bed 3000 miles away from home, wife and kids.. 

I NEVER had sex or kissed another woman that wasn't my wife regardless of how many times she was looking to cheat on me.. 

Its called moral pride.. 
Its called not wanting to lose my wife and kids no MATTER what the temptation.. 
Its called love.. 
Its called respect not only for myself but my wife and MY KIDS...

That is what it is to be in love with someone for 19 years.


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

Ok, I think there is a disconnect here. I understand that there are men who just talk to women, like Jeffster, whose relationship seems platonic. I get that that is possible.

What I am talking about though are the sexually charged EAs. Again, my posts are based on my experiences with my WH, who I do not believe for a second did not go all the way. 

Allow me to provide some examples of things he has messaged them and you tell me if this type of thing can go on for almost 3 years with NO touching of any kind, even though they work together and he spends time in her city on his "business" trips:

"This is kinda like Truth or Dare but without the dare lol. Answer
should include a question for the other person.

Have you ever given a blowjob while the guy was driving?

Trimmed or shaved?

Anal?

You do want it to be somewhat tight to keep the sensation, but the ability of a woman to tighten her muscles around the shaft provides much greater sensation

Would you rather have multiple orgasms from being licked or a quickie?"

Another message: 

"Ok so I went by the video store and got a movie. After dinner I went back upstairs to have some "me" time. So I got undressed, got in bed, and started the movie. The first scene was pretty good, and then the second one started... The lady looked like you. It made me stop and I chuckled and said ok I can't watch now. I went down to the bar and had a couple of drinks but couldn't stop thinking about what I saw. I was very horny by now so I went back upstairs, stripped, got in the bed, and started the movie again. That woman was very sexy and had me imagining you instead. I found myself closing my eyes and fantasizing. The more I thought the closer I got to cumming. I had a very intense orgasm. It was indeed an unexpected turn of events."

That was just OW1. OW2 was strictly text, so unfortunately I don't have much in that regard, but she sent him DAILY pics of her "getting ready" for work (i.e. various stages of undress), and then finally the pic of her going "all in" with her cheap, pink vibrator.

Add to this years of porn, strip clubs, *paid* sex dating site subscriptions... Really? 

JUST an EA, huh?

Very difficult to believe. Again, just my personal experience.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I know there are better men out there than I, but I see zero point to an EA.

If ever I were to have an EA it would be for the end goal of having a PA. Otherwise I'd be investing a whole lot of emotion for nothing.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

ScorchedEarth said:


> And who is this man? And where is he? Hanging out with the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny? :rofl:


no...he is too busy with hairstyling school and disco dancing...


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