# Dealing with affair



## Travelmom (10 mo ago)

Hubby had a midlife crisis affair a few years ago. I chose to stay for various reasons. Sex life is not satisfactory- his drive is low. I have mostly moved on, except he works with her and I will have to have contact now and then. Sometimes I want to just leave and start over. Anyone else feel the same?


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## Spoons027 (Jun 19, 2017)

Yes, and it led me to eventually doing so.

Is it ok to ask that one of those ‘various reasons’ is financial?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Are you sure the affairs have stopped? Dudes on here seem pretty committed to lots and lots of sex, like 2-3 times a day. It's made me very suspicious of a guy who doesn't want sex multiple times a day.


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## Travelmom (10 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Are you sure the affairs have stopped? Dudes on here seem pretty committed to lots and lots of sex, like 2-3 times a day. It's made me very suspicious of a guy who doesn't want sex multiple times a day.


You can never be 100% sure, but I believe he is faithful now. He still loves porn and he says he wants sex, but it rarely happens any more. He is healthy and I am in great shape, so I am just frustrated. Marriage is ok. He is a narcissist and I think he sometimes forgets I exist.


Spoons027 said:


> Yes, and it led me to eventually doing so.
> 
> Is it ok to ask that one of those ‘various reasons’ is financial?


Of course financial plays a role. We have built a comfortable life together. We would each do well splitting what we have, but I'm not sure I want to. We have 5 kids and 35 years invested. Starting over sounds like a lot of work. Friends who have divorced don't seem any happier.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Travelmom said:


> You can never be 100% sure, but I believe he is faithful now. He still loves porn and he says he wants sex, but it rarely happens any more. He is healthy and I am in great shape, so I am just frustrated. Marriage is ok. He is a narcissist and I think he sometimes forgets I exist.
> 
> Of course financial plays a role. We have built a comfortable life together. We would each do well splitting what we have, but I'm not sure I want to. We have 5 kids and 35 years invested. Starting over sounds like a lot of work. Friends who have divorced don't seem any happier.


Sorry to hear you are having such difficulties @Travelmom 
I have a couple of thoughts to share.

First about his affair. If he is working with her then is unlikely the affair ended. It may have stopped temporarily when you found out but It is much more likely that it restarted, but they are being even more careful now. Even in the unlikely chance it did end, your husband relives the affair over and over in his head every time they see each other. Thus he isn‘t fully present for you.

Second your post sounds like you’re nearing the breaking point with all of this. What you’re feeling is really very normal. As a betrayed spouse, sometimes we can never really come back from that. Once the trust is broken and betrayal has occurred, reconciliation can be exceptionally difficult to achieve. And that is ok, we were betrayed. We don’t have to accept that someone did that to us.

I would suggest that if you decide to stay married, get into some regular counseling with him. If there’s any way to separate him and OW so they never see each other, even if it means changing jobs, then you should _require_ that. Any contact with the other cheater is a very powerful thing. And if he is a narcissist as you say, then individual counseling for him is also a requirement.

If you decide to end this and pursue happiness for yourself without the narcissist loser messing up your life, then talk to a lawyer and start taking steps to separate. He may not even notice. And yes, this route is a lot of work. But maybe it’s worth it to stand up for yourself and declare to the world that you will NOT be treated like this? That you are better than this and don’t have to stay with a jerk who barely knows you exist.

I hope the best for you Travelmom.
Keep posting here and let the good people of TAM help you through whatever you decide.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

normally i would recommend he get his testosterone checked out. that might increase his libido.

but if he still works with an AP....that might be a bad idea...


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Sounds like you’re willing to settle. I doubt anything will change. No magic fix for this.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Travelmom said:


> You can never be 100% sure, but I believe he is faithful now. He still loves porn and he says he wants sex, but it rarely happens any more. He is healthy and I am in great shape, so I am just frustrated. Marriage is ok. He is a narcissist and I think he sometimes forgets I exist.
> 
> Of course financial plays a role. We have built a comfortable life together. We would each do well splitting what we have, but I'm not sure I want to. We have 5 kids and 35 years invested. Starting over sounds like a lot of work. Friends who have divorced don't seem any happier.


Did you not ask him to look for a new job after his affair? That would have been one of the non negotiable conditions for me.
If he stopped focusing his sexual energies on the porn he would want more sex with you.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Are you sure the affairs have stopped? Dudes on here seem pretty committed to lots and lots of sex, like 2-3 times a day. It's made me very suspicious of a guy who doesn't want sex multiple times a day.


Name 3 that said they want it 2-3 times a day.
Supporting evidence???


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Mr.Married said:


> Name 3 that said they want it 2-3 times a day.
> Supporting evidence???


That would take forever, but dudes say stuff like that all the time. Time and contact permitting, wouldn’t you? It’s not a criticism, guys seem to have a high drive. I’ll do a search if you want to make a big thing over it, but I don’t get why that would upset you.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

TexasMom1216 said:


> That would take forever, but dudes say stuff like that all the time. Time and contact permitting, wouldn’t you? It’s not a criticism, guys seem to have a high drive. I’ll do a search if you want to make a big thing over it, but I don’t get why that would upset you.


I didn’t take it that way. Guys are definitely higher drive but I don’t see too many saying 2-3 times a day is what they are after.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Mr.Married said:


> I didn’t take it that way. Guys are definitely higher drive but I don’t see too many saying 2-3 times a day is what they are after.


Oh I see. I guess could have phrased my post a little better. I didn't mean they were DEMANDING 2-3 times a day, but that they would prefer it. All things being equal, lots of guys on here would want sex multiple times a day. I mean, a couple of guys liked my original post, I didn't understand why you were mad over it. You've quoted it so I can't change it, or I'd reword so as not to offend so much. You can ask to have it removed but again, you quoted it, so you'd have to edit your post.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Travelmom said:


> You can never be 100% sure, but I believe he is faithful now. He still loves porn and he says he wants sex, but it rarely happens any more. He is healthy and I am in great shape, so I am just frustrated. Marriage is ok. He is a narcissist and I think he sometimes forgets I exist.
> 
> Of course financial plays a role. We have built a comfortable life together. We would each do well splitting what we have, but I'm not sure I want to. We have 5 kids and 35 years invested. Starting over sounds like a lot of work. Friends who have divorced don't seem any happier.


In essence he is still cheating on you, even if he isn't getting physical with his AP. He is replacing you with porn. Really just an AP in a different form in this case.

Here is something I never understand and see it all the time. You say the marriage is okay and in the next sentence you say he is a narcissist and sometimes forgets you exist. Those two statements are in opposition to one another. Your marriage is not okay.

You have a "husband" that cheated on you, still works with the AP (which means probably still cheating), chooses porn over sex with you and forgets you exist. If you stay you have no one to blame for your misery except yourself.


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## Travelmom (10 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> Did you not ask him to look for a new job after his affair? That would have been one of the non negotiable conditions for me.
> If he stopped focusing his sexual energies on the porn he would want more sex with you.


He is a very specific dr and I didn't think it would be fair to patients to ask him to look for new job. She did move from his MA to another department, but still too close. I agree about the porn.


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## Travelmom (10 mo ago)

Marc878 said:


> Sounds like you’re willing to settle. I doubt anything will change. No magic fix for this.


You are right.


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## Travelmom (10 mo ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Sorry to hear you are having such difficulties @Travelmom
> I have a couple of thoughts to share.
> 
> First about his affair. If he is working with her then is unlikely the affair ended. It may have stopped temporarily when you found out but It is much more likely that it restarted, but they are being even more careful now. Even in the unlikely chance it did end, your husband relives the affair over and over in his head every time they see each other. Thus he isn‘t fully present for you.
> ...


This is a great response! Thank you. Funny thing is I am a counselor and have given the same advice to many others. Why is it harder for me to follow good advice?


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Travelmom said:


> This is a great response! Thank you. Funny thing is I am a counselor and have given the same advice to many others. Why is it harder for me to follow good advice?


Ha Ha. Like we listen to our own advice or something?
Aren’t we all great at telling other people what to do 

I guess that’s why they say not to do it. 🤷‍♂️


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Travelmom said:


> He is a very specific dr and I didn't think it would be fair to patients to ask him to look for new job. She did move from his MA to another department, but still too close. I agree about the porn.


I doubt he is irreplaceable though. For many making sure there is no more contact with the AP is one of the first steps of reconciliation. 
I would have ended it then though as the porn is a no no for me as well.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Travelmom said:


> Starting over sounds like a lot of work. Friends who have divorced don't seem any happier.


That depends on what you mean when you say starting over. What would starting over mean to you?

If you mean finding Mr Right, remarrying and having another family, Then yeah that would be a tall order and a lot of work. Lots of people do it so it’s not unreasonable, but it may sound a bit daunting.

But if starting over to you means getting out and doing things with friends and getting back into hobbies and pursuing passions and dating people that catch your eye and having fun ..... then I guess that would depend on if you consider that “work” or fun. 

As far as your friends, their happiness would be up to them and what they are doing.

If they’re 100lbs overweight and sit at home watching soap operas all day and watching people singing in front of judges all night with their cats, then yeah, they’re probably not having a great time. 

But if they are healthy and vigorous and getting out and doing fun things with fun people and pursuing their passions and dating and having hot monkey sex with other heathy and vigorous people, then they’re probably not complaining that much. 

It’s all in what YOU make it.


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## Travelmom (10 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> That depends on what you mean when you say starting over. What would starting over mean to you?
> 
> If you mean finding Mr Right, remarrying and having another family, Then yeah that would be a tall order and a lot of work. Lots of people do it so it’s not unreasonable, but it may sound a bit daunting.
> 
> ...


We are all extremely fit, outgoing, adventurous people. As I learned when younger, having lots of hot sex with all sorts of random guys got old quickly. I am a world traveler, adrenaline seeking, sports coach, independent woman. My husband and I travel and do activities together. With his crazy medical schedule plus his love of hunting/fishing, I spent a lot of time raising kids and doing things solo. I have no fear of being alone. I guess what I am trying to figure out is if there is anything "abnormal" about being semi-alone within a marriage. Or if I would be better off completely solo. Not interested in remarriage. I don't believe in Mr. Right. Just think the random dating would get tiresome. If I had more regular sex like we used to, I think my life would be good- maybe not the ideal marriage, but one that works with my independent personality. I just need to clear the affair cobwebs from my head.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Why do you want to be married to a narcissist that forgets you even exist and isn't satisfying you sexually? Are you really that comfortable that you'll live with that?


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

How did he finagle staying in the same job working with his AP? My first volley, if D is not on the table is to report them. Do a cost benefit analysis of your current situation. Does this marriage add anything to you? OR Is it costing you? From my side of the desk, he still works with his AP, your sex life sucks, and bottom line what rewards does this marriage bring to the table. From what I read here, I would give you the promo rate, and then take utter glee at dismantling your husband and his squeeze.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Travelmom said:


> We are all extremely fit, outgoing, adventurous people. As I learned when younger, having lots of hot sex with all sorts of random guys got old quickly. I am a world traveler, adrenaline seeking, sports coach, independent woman. My husband and I travel and do activities together. With his crazy medical schedule plus his love of hunting/fishing, I spent a lot of time raising kids and doing things solo. I have no fear of being alone. I guess what I am trying to figure out is if there is anything "abnormal" about being semi-alone within a marriage. Or if I would be better off completely solo. Not interested in remarriage. I don't believe in Mr. Right. Just think the random dating would get tiresome. If I had more regular sex like we used to, I think my life would be good- maybe not the ideal marriage, but one that works with my independent personality. I just need to clear the affair cobwebs from my head.


You’re a fit, healthy, self supporting, adventurous, professional woman,, who cares what’s normal or abnormal - do what you want. 

If you want to stay and have a steady sex life him, hit him up about it. If he won’t or cant do that, then you can decide how you want to proceed from there. 

I’m not sure why any time dating is mentioned, people jump right to thinking that automatically means “...lots of random guys.” 

There is a wide spectrum between a traditional,monogamous marriage and “sex with lots of random guys.” 

You’re a grown woman and can do whatever suits you and you don’t have to do what you don’t.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Travelmom said:


> This is a great response! Thank you. Funny thing is I am a counselor and have given the same advice to many others. Why is it harder for me to follow good advice?


Easy. Emotions play a part when you follow your heart and not your brain. That’s what kept me in a dysfunctional marriage to a cheater for 45 years.


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## ShatteredKat (Mar 23, 2016)

Travelmom:

this part of your post "hit" me:

"He is healthy and I am in great shape, so I am just frustrated. Marriage is ok. He is a narcissist and I think he sometimes forgets I exist."

(side comment - wish i had - ) I better stop with that thought.

a random bunch of thoughts -

I think you are in error thinking he is not attracted to you due to your physical attributes. He isn't "forgetting" you exist. I bet his mind is on another woman (aka body) - some (no idea what %) of men look at bedding women like a pilot getting a mission icon painted on the outside of their cockpit. 

I have known a few "men" who claim they like their woman dumb. Just there to cook/clean/raise kid. I put such people on the bottom end of the "value to the human race" totem pole.

I would take the info in post by TAXMAN and digest - "What am I getting out of this marriage?" going a bit further - any possibility of making positive changes? Note that some personality traits are more or less permanent. Narcissism?

Is it possible there is some attribute of yours that bothers him? - that you are aware? or suspect? Get it on the table for discussion.

Another thought - get him to take you to a hook-up type club. Dress *provocatively* and if asked to dance by strange - do it and see if he gives a snort. Would be that he is not bothered? That should tell you something. If he is bothered? Why so? 

I would not wish your frustration on any married person. I think someone else mentioned his physical (as in chemical/hormone) health been checked out?

Wait! you said marriage is OK - what is "OK" in your definition? Nice house/financial stability/new car/nice vacations?

Are you sure your only frustration is lack of physical relations? Have you had a serious discussion about it?
Maybe ask him if he would mind you having an open marriage. (Lots of negatives there from my point of view) and see what his reaction would be? Just posting the idea to get you thinking in different directions.

You are missing a big ( and I consider integral ) part of being married. You are being cheated out of a joy of life even if he is or isn't dreaming of another woman or ? 

Maybe a getaway long weekend to St. Vincent? Maybe The Homestead with some fun activities including full body massage and dip in the warm springs?

Good luck -


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

TexasMom1216 said:


> That would take forever, but dudes say stuff like that all the time. Time and contact permitting, wouldn’t you? It’s not a criticism, guys seem to have a high drive. I’ll do a search if you want to make a big thing over it, but I don’t get why that would upset you.


Don't stereotype men. Some have a high drive, some are trying to live up to the alpha male stereotype, some are insecure if they don't express that attitude, some are just yanking your chain.

I am a pretty sexual person. My brother and I (and, my wife tells me, my wife's first fiance) have multiple orgasms (no down time) during each session. My wife's fiance might have been more demanding as they were in a rough cut socio-economic group where it is all about the man, but my brother and I just go with what our partners want. One of my partners seemed insatiable, but that was her call.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Making your husband get a new job should have been a requirement for him to get a 2nd chance. 

That he still works with the OW and is not passionate with you makes my spidey senses tingle. A fit guy with a fit wife and he’s not all over you? Nope. You need to go James Bond on his @ss. Dig deep in his phone. Look through his text, social media. And emails 

Did you expose the whor..to her husband? If not, it’s never to late. There’s no statue of limitations on exposing the OW or in dumping your husband.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Oh I see. I guess could have phrased my post a little better. I didn't mean they were DEMANDING 2-3 times a day, but that they would prefer it. All things being equal, lots of guys on here would want sex multiple times a day. I mean, a couple of guys liked my original post, I didn't understand why you were mad over it. You've quoted it so I can't change it, or I'd reword so as not to offend so much. You can ask to have it removed but again, you quoted it, so you'd have to edit your post.


the reality is, many guys here would LOVE sex 2-3 times a day. they are sex starved, and frequent sex is ALL THEY THINK ABOUT.

but a few days after they were getting this magical 3x a day sex, the crazy sex drive they had would start to wane, and 2x a day would be fine. then a few days later, 1x a day would be ok. then every other day.

it is the total absense of sex that drives them crazy. if they finally started getting normal sex, 2 times a week might be their preferrend end point.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

TexasMom1216 said:


> ...I didn't mean they were DEMANDING 2-3 times a day, but that they would prefer it. All things being equal, lots of guys on here would want sex multiple times a day.


It dawned on me that the reason men who have a series of orgasms in one session don't look for sex 2 to 3 or more times a day is because we get it all done in one session.

Some interesting reading at the links below. There are few good studies on multi orgasmic men. The subject seems to be taboo. All okay to snoop on women, but not on men I guess.

I prefer the Dunn and Trost study as half of their subjects were outed by their partners. There is always doubt about the self reporting in the other studies so the corroboration by ladies who should know is useful. The Gabrielle Griffin-Mathieu et al study has typical biases they seem to want to prove out.

I have worked with Dr. Richard Wassersug and Dr. Eric Wilowo and shared my experiences with them. I'm putting together suggestions for Dr. Wilowo on how he might set up a serious study of men who have serial orgasms.

Male multiple orgasms: a descriptive study

Exploring Male Multiple Orgasm in a Large Online Sample: Refining Our Understanding


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## Travelmom (10 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> You’re a fit, healthy, self supporting, adventurous, professional woman,, who cares what’s normal or abnormal - do what you want.
> 
> If you want to stay and have a steady sex life him, hit him up about it. If he won’t or cant do that, then you can decide how you want to proceed from there.
> 
> ...


Thanks for response. I find it interesting that you judge me for seeing "hot monkey sex" as with random guys and yet you see unhappy divorced women as "100 lbs overweight" and watching soap operas.


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## Travelmom (10 mo ago)

jsmart said:


> Making your husband get a new job should have been a requirement for him to get a 2nd chance.
> 
> That he still works with the OW and is not passionate with you makes my spidey senses tingle. A fit guy with a fit wife and he’s not all over you? Nope. You need to go James Bond on his @ss. Dig deep in his phone. Look through his text, social media. And emails
> 
> Did you expose the whor..to her husband? If not, it’s never to late. There’s no statue of limitations on exposing the OW or in dumping your husband.


She is divorced, not married. I have total access to phone and computer passwords. Nothing found. He is not on social media. That is why affair threw me. He hates technology.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Travelmom said:


> Thanks for response. I find it interesting that you judge me for seeing "hot monkey sex" as with random guys and yet you see unhappy divorced women as "100 lbs overweight" and watching soap operas.


Still doesn't change the fact that your husband is a narcissist that forgets you even exist and isn't satisfying you sexually?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Travelmom said:


> Thanks for response. I find it interesting that you judge me for seeing "hot monkey sex" as with random guys and yet you see unhappy divorced women as "100 lbs overweight" and watching soap operas.


Yeah, opening your marriage isn’t a solution. Sorry about that, it’s the last thing you need to hear. At least in divorce there’s dignity. Very little dignity in an STD. 😂


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Travelmom said:


> Thanks for response. I find it interesting that you judge me for seeing "hot monkey sex" as with random guys and yet you see unhappy divorced women as "100 lbs overweight" and watching soap operas.


I’m not judging anything. I’m saying do whatever you want and don’t do whatever you don’t want.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Travelmom said:


> She is divorced, not married. I have total access to phone and computer passwords. Nothing found. He is not on social media. That is why affair threw me. He hates technology.


Burner phone perhapse?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Travelmom said:


> She is divorced, not married. I have total access to phone and computer passwords. Nothing found. He is not on social media. That is why affair threw me. He hates technology.


Affairs existed long before social media, phones and computers. The workplace is a prime place to strike up a relationship out of the peering eyes of a spouse. Also, he doesn't hate tech too much, I assume that is where he gets his porn.


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## Travelmom (10 mo ago)

ShatteredKat said:


> Travelmom:
> 
> this part of your post "hit" me:
> 
> ...


Good response. I am not into big house, money. I grew up in a very rich socioeconomic area and hate that lifestyle. Funny you mention men liking dumb women. I am highly intelligent
My husband over the years has mentioned how much easier life would be with a dumb women who doesn't want intellectual conversation. His AP was way beneath him (and me). Pregnant in high school, divorced, kid in jail, no relationship with oldest kid. Our kids are close to us, successful, and independent. Why her?? I have dressed provocatively, done strip teases.... He is extremely jealous if I go out with friends. We have discussed swinging, but I can't do it. We have gone on sexy vacations with sex 2x day. That is all good. It is home that is tough. Anyway, thanks for making me think....


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Travelmom said:


> _*You can never be 100% sure, but I believe he is faithful now. He still loves porn and he says he wants sex, but it rarely happens any more. He is healthy and I am in great shape, so I am just frustrated. Marriage is ok. He is a narcissist and I think he sometimes forgets I exist.*_


Well golly. He sounds like a real prize. I can see why you'd want to stay with such a Prince Charming.

It's a shame you're willing to settle for so precious little, OP.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

You seem like a person that puts forth the necessary effort to make things happen and get the things you want, ie Fitness, education, career, lifestyle, relationships with friends and children etc etc

So why is this any different. If you want an active and vigorous sex life with your H, why not pursue it with the same vigor and determination?

Look him in the eye and tell him what you want. Make things happen and set the stage and environment that most nurtures and enables that to occur.

Give it your honest, college try.

From there it’s on him. He can either step up to the plate and reciprocate.

Or if he doesn’t want to, he can say no and reject the idea.

If he says no, then you have your answer that he isn’t the one to fit that bill. 

With that knowledge, then you can decide what you want to do that would work best for you.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Travelmom said:


> I guess what I am trying to figure out is if there is anything "abnormal" about being semi-alone within a marriage.


Plenty of threads here suggest it is not abnormal.

Ultimately you need to figure out how much a strong sexual connection with your spouse means to you.

If you’re ready to go golden girls and go out on adventures and travel with girlfriends rather than a husband then maybe not much.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Talker67 said:


> the reality is, many guys here would LOVE sex 2-3 times a day. they are sex starved, and frequent sex is ALL THEY THINK ABOUT.
> 
> but a few days after they were getting this magical 3x a day sex, the crazy sex drive they had would start to wane, and 2x a day would be fine. then a few days later, 1x a day would be ok. then every other day.
> 
> it is the total absense of sex that drives them crazy. if they finally started getting normal sex, 2 times a week might be their preferrend end point.


Nope. Having more sex makes me want more. My wife put in an amazing effort last night and I woke up this morning super horny (at 5am). 3x a day at my age every day would be too much but 2x with an occasional 3x would be perfect for me.


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## Travelmom (10 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> You seem like a person that puts forth the necessary effort to make things happen and get the things you want, ie Fitness, education, career, lifestyle, relationships with friends and children etc etc
> 
> So why is this any different. If you want an active and vigorous sex life with your H, why not pursue it with the same vigor and determination?
> 
> ...


Exactly what I did. Told him I need more sex. He came home early and definitely made me feel desired. We had always been very physical- at times I worried that our marriage was based too much on good sex. Yes, I do need to be more vocal about my needs. We all get caught up in life and forget to communicate well. I know I am a woman who has a much better disposition when I am physically satisfied. 😉


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## Travelmom (10 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Still doesn't change the fact that your husband is a narcissist that forgets you even exist and isn't satisfying you sexually?


You are correct. I deserve more. However, being in the mental health field gives me a bit more understanding and empathy. Narcissism is a disorder, similar to the autism spectrum, OCD, and many others. I would never stop loving an autistic child. I would try to help the child learn healthy coping skills. I am not excusing my husband's behavior. He understands his neglect, but often has difficulty seeing things from others' viewpoints. Narcissism can be extremely tough to deal with. Many people believe it is within the narcissist's power to just stop the self-centered behavior. It is not that simple.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Travelmom said:


> We had always been very physical- at times I worried that our marriage was based too much on good sex.


Now you’re sounding like a girl. 

Do you worry about finding things to worry about? LOL. 

As long as everything is mutually consensual, no one is being abused or exploited, and as long as bills are getting paid, kids are getting fed and no one is getting fired from their place of employment, who cares if a relationship is based on good sex. What’s wrong with good sex? What would you rather a relationship be based on politics or codependency? 

I and a number of other posters believe that romance/sexuality is what separates our spouse from all other relationships and what makes our special someone special. 

You can share rent and split utilities with a roommate from Craigslist. You can go out from drinks and burgers with coworkers after work. You go for walks and hikes with a dog, and the dog will always love it and never complain about mud on its paws. And you can do whatever hobbies and activities you want with friends and various activity buddies.

Sexuality is what makes our special someone special so doesn’t that make it a good thing? 

Why are we compelled to think that sexuality should be lesser or sacrificial component of a relationship?


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

ccpowerslave said:


> Nope. Having more sex makes me want more. My wife put in an amazing effort last night and I woke up this morning super horny (at 5am). 3x a day at my age every day would be too much but 2x with an occasional 3x would be perfect for me.


come back to this thread a month from now, and tell me how it is then.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Talker67 said:


> come back to this thread a month from now, and tell me how it is then.


I have had an extended period of 3+/week sex topping out at 10x. Drive is still 14+. Maybe if my 14+ was being met I would taper off, but I didn’t when I was younger and I doubt I would now.


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## Travelmom (10 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> Now you’re sounding like a girl.
> 
> Do you worry about finding things to worry about? LOL.
> 
> ...


Great points. Yes, I am a girl. I worry too much. Lol. Sometimes, I was/am flawed in thinking that if my husband doesn't want sex with me all the time and sometimes prefers porn (which I am not a prude about), there is something wrong in my marriage. Marriage is a blend of all the things you mentioned, companionship with the added benefit of sex. Lulls will happen. Unfortunately, his affair has made me hypervigilant to those lulls. Not that it matters, but he told me affair was not about sex. It was more a coworker understanding the stress of having to work later while I was irritated that he was coming home later and later. He was still a coward by turning elsewhere.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Travelmom said:


> Not that it matters, but he told me affair was not about sex. It was more a coworker understanding the stress of having to work later while I was irritated that he was coming home later and later. He was still a coward by turning elsewhere.


I've worked in the medical field for 40 years and I get out late way more often than I get out on time and I have never once had sex with a coworker because they understood that the medical field was demanding. 

In my younger days I banged a number of people at the hospitals I worked at because they were hot and horny and had great tits and long legs and firm butts and wanted my schlong etc. But I never once, even in my single days, had sex with a coworker because they understood why I was often late getting out of work. 

Is there a possibility that much of your consternation about your relationship due to rugsweeping and unresolved issues around your WH's cheating? 

Often times when people's spouse cheat on them, they simply don't like them anymore and don't feel comfortable or safe with them and they lose attraction and desire for them. Infidelity is a perfectly valid reason to end a marriage. Even the Vatican considers adultery a valid deal breaker.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Travelmom said:


> ... My husband over the years has mentioned how much easier life would be with a dumb women who doesn't want intellectual conversation. His AP was way beneath him (and me). Pregnant in high school, divorced, kid in jail, no relationship with oldest kid. Our kids are close to us, successful, and independent. Why her?? ....


This I believe I can answer for you. People very, VERY rarely "affair up" although that is the common misconception. The majority of the time, people "affair down" because they want to be with someone who makes them feel good about themselves--and being a narcissist, your husband literally needs those ego kibbles to feel alright about himself. As smart, in shape, and together as you are--that may be a bit threatening to him, even if he is also smart, in shape, and successful from an outward appearance. On the other hand, the OW is beneath him. He can feel intellectually superior because she's not too smart. He can feel morally superior because she got pregnant in HS. He can feel successful because his kids are close to him and contributing members of society--hers aren't. He can feel physically superior because she isn't in as great a shape as he is. He can feel sexually superior because like porn, a mistress doesn't "turn you down" or deflate you. In other words, he chose HER because she feeds his NPD need for ego fuel. He's better than her and because he is, he feels great about himself. Compared to you, he may be equal...and honestly he probably wonders if you aren't better than him or at least "competition" instead of an ego fix. 

See, affairs usually have something to do with the WS feeling "less than" in some aspect of their life. Maybe they are aging and feel "less than attractive." Maybe they don't feel loved and feel "less than loveable." You get the drift. So to fill the "less than" hole, they want to feel better about that. Now, a healthy person might say, "I'm feeling a bit unsure of my physicality due to aging, so I'm going to go to a doctor or change up my workout routine..." etc. to address that "less than" feeling. But an UNHEALTHY person, such as NPD, will turn externally...to others...and want others to make them feel better. Thus, they end up connecting with someone who is even "less than" they are, and they feel like they aren't so bad! "Wife lives morally and won't act on sexual desires to other men, but the mistress--oh she's slutty and I'm not nearly as deviant as her, therefore I'm not so bad!" 

It's messed up, but there it is.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Travelmom said:


> Good response. I am not into big house, money. I grew up in a very rich socioeconomic area and hate that lifestyle. Funny you mention men liking dumb women. I am highly intelligent
> My husband over the years has mentioned how much easier life would be with a dumb women who doesn't want intellectual conversation. His AP was way beneath him (and me). Pregnant in high school, divorced, kid in jail, no relationship with oldest kid. Our kids are close to us, successful, and independent. Why her?? I have dressed provocatively, done strip teases.... He is extremely jealous if I go out with friends. We have discussed swinging, but I can't do it. We have gone on sexy vacations with sex 2x day. That is all good. It is home that is tough. Anyway, thanks for making me think....


We need to talk about the differences between the boys and the girls and the difference between having an affair and actually choosing someone else over the current partner. 

First lets talk about affairs in general. An affair that lasts more than a quick romp in the broom closet at work or the bathroom of a bar or a wild night in a hotel on business trip or solo vacation is almost always an "affair-down" situation. It's just scoring some extra fun and frivolity. 

If someone is convinced the AP is a Bigger, Better, Deal (BBD) they will leave the BS... some times in a matter of days. (I personally know a couple that literally met on a Friday night and by Monday told each of their respective spouses they were leaving) 

The difference between the boys and the girls and is girls are usually the ones looking to trade up and more likely to leave the BS if the OM will have them full time (most won't). 

Men on the other hand aren't naturally prone to get rid of one woman in favor of another but often try to maintain both or all of them as much as they can. Instead of trading one for another, he will try to just add to the collection. 

And if all he is after is just some fun and extra poon, she just has to be physically attractive "enough." She doesn't have to be prettier that the BW, she doesn't have to be smart and she doesn't have to have angel wings. For a guy to marry and be committed with someone, she may need to be a BBD and check off a whole bunch of boxes, but for a place to park his Johnson, she just has to be attractive enough and willing. 

I also want to mention the jealousy with friends. Cheaters are some of the most jealous and suspicious people out there. Since they have a cheating heart and are on the market for others, they assume you are as well. And they know just how enticing and alluring the sex is. 

And in your case being very fit and good looking, he knows that with just a wink and a nod, you could be in the restroom of the club getting down with any guy(s) of your choosing within minutes. And since he has cheated, he knows that your dedication to fidelity to him has likely been significantly eroded.


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## Travelmom (10 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> We need to talk about the differences between the boys and the girls and the difference between having an affair and actually choosing someone else over the current partner.
> 
> First lets talk about affairs in general. An affair that lasts more than a quick romp in the broom closet at work or the bathroom of a bar or a wild night in a hotel on business trip or solo vacation is almost always an "affair-down" situation. It's just scoring some extra fun and frivolity.
> 
> ...


When I learned of affair, he did say he loved OW and wanted a divorce. I think he was shocked that I said, "That saddens me, but whatever you think will make you happy." I continued to be kind to him, while also reminding him that affairs rarely turn into anything long lasting. I also went to therapy to maintain my self-esteem. I became prepared to move on, not because I necessarily wanted to, but cheating was a deal breaker. Within a week, he cried to me, said he had no idea why he did what he did, and begged me to come back. I said no, and moved out.He offered to move. I didn't want house. We communicated through actual written letters, talking about regrets and negativity on both sides that led to breakdown of marriage. He admitted affair was mistake and that I was the better person for not cheating on him through the years with all his neglect. I admitted my contribution to breakdown, but said never did I think we were to divorce point. It took a while, but ultimately I chose to focus on the 30+ years of building a strong family. We slowly grew closer. Unfortunately, situations arise that trigger me (lack of sex, knowing he might see her, etc). I reached out to this site when triggered in a huge way. I thank everyone who responded and helped me evaluate my situation.


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## Travelmom (10 mo ago)

Affaircare said:


> This I believe I can answer for you. People very, VERY rarely "affair up" although that is the common misconception. The majority of the time, people "affair down" because they want to be with someone who makes them feel good about themselves--and being a narcissist, your husband literally needs those ego kibbles to feel alright about himself. As smart, in shape, and together as you are--that may be a bit threatening to him, even if he is also smart, in shape, and successful from an outward appearance. On the other hand, the OW is beneath him. He can feel intellectually superior because she's not too smart. He can feel morally superior because she got pregnant in HS. He can feel successful because his kids are close to him and contributing members of society--hers aren't. He can feel physically superior because she isn't in as great a shape as he is. He can feel sexually superior because like porn, a mistress doesn't "turn you down" or deflate you. In other words, he chose HER because she feeds his NPD need for ego fuel. He's better than her and because he is, he feels great about himself. Compared to you, he may be equal...and honestly he probably wonders if you aren't better than him or at least "competition" instead of an ego fix.
> 
> See, affairs usually have something to do with the WS feeling "less than" in some aspect of their life. Maybe they are aging and feel "less than attractive." Maybe they don't feel loved and feel "less than loveable." You get the drift. So to fill the "less than" hole, they want to feel better about that. Now, a healthy person might say, "I'm feeling a bit unsure of my physicality due to aging, so I'm going to go to a doctor or change up my workout routine..." etc. to address that "less than" feeling. But an UNHEALTHY person, such as NPD, will turn externally...to others...and want others to make them feel better. Thus, they end up connecting with someone who is even "less than" they are, and they feel like they aren't so bad! "Wife lives morally and won't act on sexual desires to other men, but the mistress--oh she's slutty and I'm not nearly as deviant as her, therefore I'm not so bad!"
> 
> It's messed up, but there it is.


great discussion. I learned through therapy to focus on his insecure need for validation from her. She could have been anyone. He thought her loved her, but the fog is thick when a person needs that building up. Hardest part is I had conversations with her prior to affair in which she told me I was too good to him. He told me she kept telling him to go back, until she didn't...


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## Lotsofheart73 (Oct 13, 2021)

My humble opinion about this situation is that as long as he works with/near/ same place of employment as affair partner, things will never get better. Other posters have mentioned this and you seem to blow it off for whatever reason (he’s highly specialized, not fair to patients etc). If his marriage was his priority, he would work else where and if it was yours, you’d require it. Not saying that if he changed his place of employment everything will magically get better. However, it would be the biggest step in the right direction.


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## Travelmom (10 mo ago)

Lotsofheart73 said:


> My humble opinion about this situation is that as long as he works with/near/ same place of employment as affair partner, things will never get better. Other posters have mentioned this and you seem to blow it off for whatever reason (he’s highly specialized, not fair to patients etc). If his marriage was his priority, he would work else where and if it was yours, you’d require it. Not saying that if he changed his place of employment everything will magically get better. However, it would be the biggest step in the right direction.


I guess why I "blow it off" is because she moved on very quickly with several partners and is now remarried. I think my husband is just a blip to her. He says she was a mistake. I am the one left still bothered by her. That is on me.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Travelmom said:


> I guess why I "blow it off" is because she moved on very quickly with several partners and is now remarried. I think my husband is just a blip to her. He says she was a mistake. I am the one left still bothered by her. That is on me.


Thing is, it isn't really her that is the problem. It is your husband. He professed love for this woman while married to you. How is that a mistake? He fell in love with her and odds are he still holds on to some feelings for her. As long as their is any proximity to her how can you expect him to totally detach? And this isn't on you.


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## drencrom (Jul 1, 2021)

Travelmom said:


> Hubby had a midlife crisis affair a few years ago. I chose to stay for various reasons. Sex life is not satisfactory- his drive is low. I have mostly moved on, except he works with her and I will have to have contact now and then. Sometimes I want to just leave and start over. Anyone else feel the same?


I think you should. You shouldn't waste the rest of your life with a low libido, cheater that still works with his OW. Life is too short, get out there and live!!!!


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