# Marriage break up i dont want, what can i do?



## Digdug (10 d ago)

Hi all
I am in a dark place right now.
My wife and I have been married for 20 years, we have two children. 
I am quite a closed book emotionally and personally and this may have had a bearing on my situation.
About 3 years ago, my wife slowly withdrew the physical side of our marriage, it was once a year if I was lucky. She complained to me I wasnt understanding her emotions or showing empathy. This coupled with the lockdown where I was forced to stop work to home school while my wife was trying to work from home , plus her working for a terrible boss was the start of the cracks. I guess I didnt show her enough support with her job.
She eventually quit and I supported her descion and agreed to her having a year off. She quickly got head hunted, and within three months was back working for a company she previously worked for, and loved the job.
But she still was not happy emotionally.
From my point, I made her life as easy as possible. I did all the cooking, washing, putting the kids to bed, paid for a cleaner and got the ironing done, did bath times and school preps in the mornings when I could. I never went out, did any hobbies at weekends etc, and I even let her go out as often as she wanted, often on weekends away with her friends or on her own. My reasoning was to allow her to relax and enjoy life without the worry of day to day house stuff.
Still she would be distant with me and sometimes flinch if I went to touch her.
Yet we got on very well, never had arguments and I guess we became like brother and sister.
Then about 6 months ago she had an emotional outburst one night suggesting we were t right for each other and should split up. I suggested councilling, which we did, but she stopped it half way through wanting us to part.
Then, to my shame, i had extra marital activities to fulfill what i wasnt getting from her and I got found out.
She filed for divorce, and has arranged to buy me out of the house taking on a massive mortgage which she will have till she is 75.the kids can stay in the home this way.
I am sleeping on the sofa for the duration, and I have begged and pleaded with her for a second chance and to change our life to make it work, but it seems she is hell bent on this.
She is being so nice about it all, letting me stay until I have found somewhere and telling me I can keep stuff here as long as needed.
But that's not what I want. She hasnt signed on the dotted line yet, so I still hold on to a glimmer of hope that she will reconsider. What can I do to keep her?
My worry is once I am gone, she will realise just how much I do round the house, inside and out, and will see just how difficult it is to run a house, more so on your own.
I have told her I will do what it takes and be straight back if she changes her mind, but if it's too far down the line financially, its more difficult.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Digdug said:


> She complained to me I wasnt understanding her emotions or showing empathy.


*What do you think about that?* If it's true, have you got more like that, or have you always been this way?



Digdug said:


> I suggested councilling, which we did, but she stopped it half way through wanting us to part.


How many sessions, and *what happened* in the counselling?


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## Digdug (10 d ago)

Laurentium said:


> *What do you think about that?* If it's true, have you got more like that, or have you always been this way?
> I have been this way, I think it stemmed from bad childhood experience that caused me to shutdown
> 
> How many sessions, and *what happened* in the counselling?


It was not helpful. She spent first session asking about our families. I did touch on the physical aspect earlier on, and the wife dismissed it.
Then we talked about going on a date night, then it was discussed at the next session, where she asked if it was a success, but my wife said it felt too formal and not natural. It had been so long since we both went out just the two of us, so I understand that to be honest


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Digdug said:


> Hi all
> I am in a dark place right now.
> My wife and I have been married for 20 years, we have two children.
> I am quite a closed book emotionally and personally and this may have had a bearing on my situation.
> ...


What would "being happy emotionally" look like to your wife? You mentioned not supporting her in the new job... were you mean about it or something? How did you not support her?

I have to say, once you stepped out and had a sexual affair, you broke all the rules for possibly fixing this marriage. It may not be recoverable, especially since she is set against it. And honestly I don't blame her, it sounds like you didn't do the husband thing properly.

Best chance to have any chance with her, in my opinion, is to stop chasing her. Let her have what she wants. Focus on yourself and become a new man, the best dad in the world. Maybe at some point she will see changes enough to give you a second look.

Sorry OP, you seem really broken. But stepping out on your wife rather than fixing things might have been a one-way street.


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## Digdug (10 d ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> What would "being happy emotionally" look like to your wife? You mentioned not supporting her in the new job... were you mean about it or something? How did you not support her?
> 
> I have to say, once you stepped out and had a sexual affair, you broke all the rules for possibly fixing this marriage. It may not be recoverable, especially since she is set against it. And honestly I don't blame her, it sounds like you didn't do the husband thing properly.
> 
> ...


I think you are right. I wasnt at all mean to her in anyway, I guess I perhaps didnt ask her about how she was feeling about her job, or her emotions, it wasnt that I didnt care, it was more I didnt think it was an issue, or didnt know how to handle things


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Digdug said:


> I think you are right. I wasnt at all mean to her in anyway, I guess I perhaps didnt ask her about how she was feeling about her job, or her emotions, it wasnt that I didnt care, it was more I didnt think it was an issue, or didnt know how to handle things


I take this to mean that you were "checked out" so-to-say, not connected and engaged with her in her interests and activities. Is that it?

It seems like possibly the chasm between you and your wife grew to such a point that, even without your infidelity, it might be a long hard road to recover your marriage. But with the infidelity? Ouch. That's Mt. Everest. And with her not wanting to take a step to work on things, you don't stand a chance.

Let her go @Digdug. Focus on the new and improved you. Become super-dad and move on with your life. In some possible version of the future she might recognize a better you, but don't hold your breath on that. This is the cost of infidelity.


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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

Digdug said:


> Hi all
> I am in a dark place right now.
> My wife and I have been married for 20 years, we have two children.
> I am quite a closed book emotionally and personally and this may have had a bearing on my situation.
> ...


*I even let her go out as often as she wanted, often on weekends away with her friends or on her own.
Still she would be distant with me and sometimes flinch if I went to touch her.
Then about 6 months ago she had an emotional outburst one night suggesting we were not right for each other and should split up. I suggested counseling, which we did, but she stopped it half way through wanting us to part.*
A wife will rarely want to leave her husband to be worse off and not have a plan B.
This has all the hallmarks that your wife has an AP and by you having extra marital activities has now given her the perfect excuse to get out of the marriage.
I suggest you begin discretely checking out your wife`s online activities and what she does and with whom when she goes out.


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## Digdug (10 d ago)

gameopoly5 said:


> *I even let her go out as often as she wanted, often on weekends away with her friends or on her own.
> Still she would be distant with me and sometimes flinch if I went to touch her.
> Then about 6 months ago she had an emotional outburst one night suggesting we were not right for each other and should split up. I suggested counseling, which we did, but she stopped it half way through wanting us to part.*
> A wife will rarely want to leave her husband to be worse off and not have a plan B.
> ...


I wish I could, but she does everything on her phone it never leaves the palm of her hand. In fact, this is another problem. She spends all her time on that phone, day and night, often ignoring the children, it's like the virtual world ifors more important. It's actually given her a nervous twitch she is on it so much. We are both to blame for this downfall


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

I’m a wife with no plan b or thoughts of having one. If my husband had an affair I’d be done. That’s all. No coming back. Maybe that’s where she’s at.

Also I’m sure you thought the affair was no big deal and you’d talk your way out of it. Appears you didnt


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Digdug said:


> Hi all
> I am in a dark place right now.
> My wife and I have been married for 20 years, we have two children.
> I am quite a closed book emotionally and personally and this may have had a bearing on my situation.
> ...


I putting things into perspective for you to learn from:

Blue highlight = Some people are like this but it can be helpful to show affection to your spouse with words, hand gestures, and touching from time-to-time.

Purple highlight = Bad decision on your part. You became a doormat and allowed her to walk all over you in order to win her back [as a man]. THIS DOES NOT WORK with women in general. It is OK to allow your spouse to go out with friends *but* you should have INSISTED on "couple outings" with YOU as well. You should have told her to STEP UP for YOU while you were STEPPING UP for HER in regards to how to rekindle your marital relationship. Point is this: *ACT* like a spouse and *TALK* like a spouse. This creates your MARITAL VALUE.

Red highlights = Your wife was [also] acting up by withholding intimacy from you and she continued to give you ILYBINILWY treatment irrespective of your effort to STEP UP for her in whatever ways you felt you could. She also canceled Marital Counseling? I suspect that there might be another man in the picture for her.

Green highlight = You shot yourself in the foot by partaking in extra-marital activities and gave your wife LEGIT REASON to ditch you, unfortunately. I am not sure how you can RECOVER your marriage from this blunder when she had already checked-out on you [sort of].

----

You need to own up to your blunder(s) while communicating with her. *But* you need to ask yourself following questions:

1. Can you carry this marriage by YOURSELF?
2. Does your wife realize that she treated you poorly by withholding intimacy from you, disregarding your efforts to make her life easier, and canceling Marital Counseling? Was she trying on her part?

Pick up a pen and piece of paper and write this down: own up to your blunder(s) in first para, remind your wife of her questionable behavior with question no. 2 in second para, mention that you are willing to do everything to help restore this marriage but you CANNOT carry it by yourself with you begging and pleading for her affections all the time and you suggest following steps in 3rd para:

1. Insist on another round of Martial Counseling and completing it for both of you come to terms with your respective issues.
2. Absolute NO to separation and lack of intimacy while staying under one roof.
3. Absolute NO to phone privacy.

Give this write-up to your wife and tell her to read it. This is much better than begging and pleading with her in view of your completely dysfunctional marital situation.

Then see how it goes.

Time has come for you to man-up, find a way to make a living, and learn to not repeat same mistakes in your life.



Digdug said:


> I wish I could, but she does everything on her phone it never leaves the palm of her hand. In fact, this is another problem. She spends all her time on that phone, day and night, often ignoring the children, it's like the virtual world ifors more important. It's actually given her a nervous twitch she is on it so much. We are both to blame for this downfall


As I suspected - she isn't CLEAN either.

Refer back to what I said above.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Cheating is shooting your self in the head not the foot and not a blunder. Burning pizza is a blunder. Cheating is purposeful deceit and disrespect.


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## Digdug (10 d ago)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> I putting things into perspective for you to learn from:
> 
> Blue highlight = Some people are like this but it can be helpful to show affection to your spouse with words, hand gestures, and touching from time-to-time.
> 
> ...


Thanks. Sound advice!


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Hmm. It's not clear whether this is fixable. 



Digdug said:


> Counselling: It was not helpful. She spent first session asking about our families. I did touch on the physical aspect earlier on, and the wife dismissed it.
> Then we talked about going on a date night, then it was discussed at the next session, where she asked if it was a success, but my wife said it felt too formal and not natural. It had been so long since we both went out just the two of us, so I understand that to be honest


That doesn't sound like excellent counselling. The counsellor allowed your wife to dismiss the physical side, just like that?



Digdug said:


> I wasnt at all mean to her in anyway, I guess I perhaps didnt ask her about how she was feeling about her job, or her emotions, it wasnt that I didnt care, it was more I didnt think it was an issue, or didnt know how to handle things


Does asking those kinds of questions come naturally to you? You may have to learn to behave differently.

Let me ask: what do you think she thinks about the marriage?


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## Digdug (10 d ago)

Laurentium said:


> Hmm. It's not clear whether this is fixable.
> 
> 
> That doesn't sound like excellent counselling. The counsellor allowed your wife to dismiss the physical side, just like that?
> ...


She thinks I love her, but not in love with her, which is not true. She told me I appear to be with her just for convenience. Truth be told, she has pushed me further away with her rejections to the point where I felt too awkward or scared to confront her about her feelings.


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## blackclover3 (Apr 23, 2021)

do you think she is cheating on you for a long time?
everything you listed or described checks out as a cheater red flag and more

phone not leaving her hand then that means there is someone else - 

you have to get to that phone


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

She very likely has another man entertaining her. Being with you is cheating on him.


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## Digdug (10 d ago)

blackclover3 said:


> do you think she is cheating on you for a long time?
> everything you listed or described checks out as a cheater red flag and more
> 
> phone not leaving her hand then that means there is someone else -
> ...


I actually dont suspect she has been . She is just obsessed with the phone. I always know where she is and with who, plus she has Christian values and no body confidence (also why she says away from the physical), despite me reassuring her that her body is fine.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

It sounds like your marriage has been struggling long before you had an affair, and the affair(s) just pushed it off the cliff. I'd do your best to learn from all that's happened, and just divorce.

Just a question though - did you lose your job/were you laid off during Covid? If I read that correctly, what was her level of empathy towards you?


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## Digdug (10 d ago)

*Deidre* said:


> It sounds like your marriage has been struggling long before you had an affair, and the affair(s) just pushed it off the cliff. I'd do your best to learn from all that's happened, and just divorce.
> 
> Just a question though - did you lose your job/were you laid off during Covid? If I read that correctly, what was her level of empathy towards you?


I am self employed, so no I didnt lose my job, I just didnt earn any, and went stir crazy. You are right, where was my empathy?


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Digdug said:


> I am self employed, so no I didnt lose my job, I just didnt earn any, and went stir crazy. You are right, where was my empathy?


Yea, it's just something that caught my eye reading your story. Of course, there's two sides to every story, but at this point, your wife is checked out, and there's nothing you can really do, at this point.

Having an affair was obviously not the answer, and made things even worse, so you'll have to accept that part of it. But, imo, there comes a point when you have to just walk away from a relationship that isn't healthy. 

The thing maybe you need to focus on is why do you want to stay in this marriage, if it's so unhealthy? Could it be that you're more afraid of divorce, being alone, etc...than staying married?


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## Teacherwifemom (5 mo ago)

Your wife wanted a partner in all ways. A friend, a romantic partner and someone to care for her emotions and emotional well being. It sounds like you are an unemotional person. It sounds like she spent years trying to explain this to you, and nothing changed. Maybe you just don’t have it in you, but leaving someone you are married to in an emotional desert will trump all that housework everyday of the week. She wants a full marriage. You sound happy just being household and parenting partners and you’d be content with that if the sex was there. Most people want more. They want and need a connection. The affair was her justification (rightfully so) to finally pull the plug. This is new to you. It’s been in her head for years. You’re at the beginning of this; she’s at the end. Our behavior has consequences and most of the time we’re given plenty of opportunities to negate those consequences. Unfortunately, she sounds 100% done here. I’m sure that sucks profoundly for you. Maybe the best you can hope for is to go through the divorce and try to romance her again. But that affair…..if only you didn’t. I’d have to assume that is really hard to come back from.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Thanks for answering.



Digdug said:


> She thinks I love her, but not in love with her, ... *She told me I appear to be with her just for convenience*.


This is really important information. That's her fear. That you are only with her because it's convenient, not because you care about her. 



Digdug said:


> to the point where I felt too awkward or scared to *confront *her about her feelings.


I don't know what you mean by "confront". That sounds like the opposite of what you would need to do!


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## Digdug (10 d ago)

*Deidre* said:


> Yea, it's just something that caught my eye reading your story. Of course, there's two sides to every story, but at this point, your wife is checked out, and there's nothing you can really do, at this point.
> 
> Having an affair was obviously not the answer, and made things even worse, so you'll have to accept that part of it. But, imo, there comes a point when you have to just walk away from a relationship that isn't healthy.
> 
> The thing maybe you need to focus on is why do you want to stay in this marriage, if it's so unhealthy? Could it be that you're more afraid of divorce, being alone, etc...than staying married?


I loved everything about our marriage apart from lack of physical. Being alone does worry me to a degree, but being pragmatic, there are so many benefits. I get to have a tidy place to live instead of constantly clearing up after everyone. I dont need to constantly turn lights off that have been left on, and worry about the heating being on full blast when everyone leaves doors open, or being woken up late at night. I can work hours that suit me, and work every other weekend without fear of unrest, but deep down it's being without my companion of over 20 years, not sharing life, holidays and the fun times that I'm scared of. I can build a new life, I can date again if i want, but it's her i want. I have not painted her in a great way,she is such a lovely person in herself and to to others.
I set myself a goal when she asked what i loved about her to write down a list of 100 things. It didnt take me long to be honest.


Laurentium said:


> Thanks for answering.
> 
> 
> This is really important information. That's her fear. That you are only with her because it's convenient, not because you care about her.
> ...


Yes I see what you mean. I guess I needed to just air my feelings much sooner, rather than confront


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Teacherwifemom said:


> Your wife wanted a partner in all ways. A friend, a romantic partner and someone to care for her emotions and emotional well being. It sounds like you are an unemotional person. It sounds like she spent years trying to explain this to you, and nothing changed. Maybe you just don’t have it in you, but leaving someone you are married to in an emotional desert will trump all that housework everyday of the week. She wants a full marriage. You sound happy just being household and parenting partners and you’d be content with that if the sex was there. Most people want more. They want and need a connection. The affair was her justification (rightfully so) to finally pull the plug. This is new to you. It’s been in her head for years. You’re at the beginning of this; she’s at the end. Our behavior has consequences and most of the time we’re given plenty of opportunities to negate those consequences. Unfortunately, she sounds 100% done here. I’m sure that sucks profoundly for you. Maybe the best you can hope for is to go through the divorce and try to romance her again. But that affair…..if only you didn’t. I’d have to assume that is really hard to come back from.


I agree with all of this too, OP.

Your wife likely grew tired of waiting on you to become more engaged, emotional and passionate about her and you tried to answer those needs in the way you thought would help. 

At this point, trying to rebuild from all of the prior resentment and adding an affair into the mix, I can understand her wanting to divorce, and move on.

You should just focus on you and being the best version of yourself you can be. I think this chapter of your life is coming to a close, and best to find a way to accept it.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Digdug said:


> I loved everything about our marriage apart from lack of physical. Being alone does worry me to a degree, but being pragmatic, there are so many benefits. I get to have a tidy place to live instead of constantly clearing up after everyone. I dont need to constantly turn lights off that have been left on, and worry about the heating being on full blast when everyone leaves doors open, or being woken up late at night. I can work hours that suit me, and work every other weekend without fear of unrest, but deep down it's being without my companion of over 20 years, not sharing life, holidays and the fun times that I'm scared of. I can build a new life, I can date again if i want, but it's her i want. I have not painted her in a great way,she is such a lovely person in herself and to to others.
> I set myself a goal when she asked what i loved about her to write down a list of 100 things. It didnt take me long to be honest.
> 
> Yes I see what you mean. I guess I needed to just air my feelings much sooner, rather than confront


Aw, it sounds like you both love one another. But, maybe your wife didn't feel loved by you? I'm not sure. Even though you love her, perceptions are reality. Her perception is different, you know?


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Digdug said:


> She thinks I love her, but not in love with her, which is not true. She told me I appear to be with her just for convenience. Truth be told, she has pushed me further away with her rejections to the point where I felt too awkward or scared to confront her about her feelings.


That is pure projection on her part. She’s stayed with you these past 3 sexless years, to keep you as a housekeeper babysitter. She has been wanting to leave you all these years but didn’t because of how hard you were trying to nice her. After 3 years of no sex, you cracked and went and had an affair. That gave her the perfect excuse to end the marriage with you being the bad guy. 

I would bet my next mortgage payment that she’s had a long term affair, which is why she cut you off and even flinches at your touch. She’s is another man’s girl and wants to be faithful to him.

There’s no use in doing any digging into if she’s actually having or had an affair. She wants out and is I unlikely to change her mind. Besides, do you want to stay with a cold woman that flinches at your touch. Just get your ducks in a row to move on. After so many years living with an indifferent woman, you will be amazed at how incredible it feels to be with a woman that’s really into you. And no, a woman that was willing to be a side piece does not count or come close to having a woman in a legit relationship.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

If what jsmart posts ^^^ is accurately what has happened, OP - would you still want to save your marriage?


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## Digdug (10 d ago)

Without going into too much detail, my extra martial activities had no emotional attachment. It was just sex. Once I move out, I will look for a long term partner and the hope we will be both into each other!


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Digdug said:


> Without going into too much detail, my extra martial activities had no emotional attachment. It was just sex. Once I move out, I will look for a long term partner and the hope we will be both into each other!


Give it a while before you do that, like a year or two.


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## Digdug (10 d ago)

Laurentium said:


> Give it a while before you do that, like a year or two.


Do you not think once you fall off a horse you should get straight back on?


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Digdug said:


> Do you not think once you fall off a horse you should get straight back on?


No. It depends how bad your injuries are. You've been married for 20 years. I think it would be a big mistake. Just my opinion.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I think you need time to heal, OP. It's also not fair to go into new relationships without properly healing, because new women may be ready for something more serious, but you're not in that place, yet. I've never believed that leaping into new relationships is helpful to ''getting over'' past ones. They could help to distract you, but healing takes time, and it's something that you have to do on your own.

This doesn't mean you need to be 100% over your marriage before getting back into dating, you may always have a spot in your heart for your wife, but the anger/grief/sadness needs to be worked through, in my opinion.

Maybe getting some counseling will help, too.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Laurentium said:


> Give it a while before you do that, like a year or two.





Digdug said:


> Do you not think once you fall off a horse you should get straight back on?





Laurentium said:


> No. It depends how bad your injuries are. You've been married for 20 years. I think it would be a big mistake. Just my opinion.


i think the question that needs to be asked here is how long ago did you actually fall off the horse?

is this actually a recent event or has your marriage actually been dead a long time and you just haven’t admitted it to yourself yet?

you both sound very detached and disconnected.

you claim you still love her and want to be with her, but is that “love” really for her as the unique and separate person she is from your heart and soul?

or is your “love” actually your primal need to have sex and the resting inertia and convenience of having her in the house???


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

I’m with @*Deidre* and @Laurentium that you should chill on dating and looking for a partner until you’ve had some time to get your stbx out of your system. After 20 years it will take about a year to detach. Normally, I’d say about a month for every year you were with her but since you have been in a sexless marriage for 3 years and have had an affair, that time will be shortened. 

I’m not saying to become a hermit or a monk. Work on becoming the man that you will be proud to see in the mirror. Doesn’t mean you can’t casually date sooner than that but it shouldn’t be a crutch to help you forget your stbx. Just make sure that any person you hang out with, is just to hang out and have fun and do not lead a woman on that you’re ready for anything other than a causal date. It will not be fair to a woman to let her think you’re looking for love.

Not that it will matter much because any woman with a head on her shoulders knows that a man in the process of divorce or even recently divorced is not relationship material yet. just focus on healing and become a whole man. One that is no longer co-dependant.


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## Digdug (10 d ago)

Fair points. I guess we have been detached for 3 years or more. I think once I'm moved out my feelings may well wane


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Digdug said:


> Fair points. I guess we have been detached for 3 years or more. I think once I'm moved out my feelings may well wane


They will. But since she’s been your wife for so many years and she is the mother of your children, it is possible that you may carry her in your heart for along time. It just won’t be so dominant. I’ve known 2 guys and have read about some that years later still sweat their ex, even though they have a new loving wife that’s actually more attractive than their ex. Hopefully you won’t be one of those guys. Learning to be your own independent man will help insure you don’t become one of those type of guys.


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## Digdug (10 d ago)

I guess I am comparing to a very good friend of mine, he was in a loveless marriage, worse than mine, and he met someone else. Thee day he moved out of his house when they sold, he moved in with her. Been together 5 years now and married her! She was in the same situation as him


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Digdug said:


> I guess I am comparing to a very good friend of mine, he was in a loveless marriage, worse than mine, and he met someone else. Thee day he moved out of his house when they sold, he moved in with her. Been together 5 years now and married her! She was in the same situation as him


It happens, it's just not the norm.

I've seen plenty (including myself) who jumped back into a relationship too soon. I came into that relationship carrying the same BS that caused my previous one to fail. So guess what happened.

Take the time you need to properly heal and do some introspection\growing about how to treat your next partner. Go ahead and date, we all need social activity. Just be careful about any long-term commitments; avoid those for a while. How long? Everyone is different. A lot of people say 1-2 years minimum. I personally think "it depends on you" is a better answer.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Digdug said:


> Without going into too much detail, my extra martial activities had no emotional attachment. It was just sex. Once I move out, I will look for a long term partner and the hope we will be both into each other!


so it sounds like you’re ok with divorce now

Most wives aren’t ok with just sex affairs. How is that ok?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Digdug said:


> I guess I am comparing to a very good friend of mine, he was in a loveless marriage, worse than mine, and he met someone else. Thee day he moved out of his house when they sold, he moved in with her. Been together 5 years now and married her! She was in the same situation as him


The vast majority of people that jump right into another relationship right away probably shouldn’t and most will probably regret it at some point down the road and wished they had waited. 

I’ve know a lot of people who upon self-reflection wished they had divorced sooner.

And I’ve known people that upon self reflection wished they had not jumped into another relationship as soon after divorcing.

But I’ve never encountered anyone that regrets not getting into another relationship soon after divorce or regrets waiting too long to get back into another serious, committed relationship.

So yeah, there are going to some people out there that get into another Relationship and things worked out ok. But the odds greatly favor those that took some time, got their act together and learned to be comfortable and content with themselves before getting into another relationship.


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## Digdug (10 d ago)

Thanks. that's good to hear. I think from my point, my wife is my first girlfriend who I then married. I was living at home when we got together and we brought our first house 8 months later, got married 2 years after that. I was 27. Having only been in one relationship it's hard to contemplate anything else


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

You talk a lot about her distance in the last 3 years, but you mention you had some issue for the previous 17. Emotionally detached and so on, for a long time before she finally shut down. 

Being female, I know she would have been expressing a lot during those 17 years before finally going quiet and withdrawing intimacy. She would have tried a lot to fix things from her end.

What were the issues she was nagging about for 17 years?


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Digdug said:


> I guess I am comparing to a very good friend of mine, he was in a loveless marriage, worse than mine, and he met someone else. Thee day he moved out of his house when they sold, he moved in with her. Been together 5 years now and married her! She was in the same situation as him


She may be right in saying you’re just with her for convenience.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Digdug said:


> Thanks. that's good to hear. I think from my point, my wife is my first girlfriend who I then married. I was living at home when we got together and we brought our first house 8 months later, got married 2 years after that. I was 27. Having only been in one relationship it's hard to contemplate anything else


There's a ton of 'new' and 'first time' things in front of you. Some good, some not so much.

Learn to be better and treasure what you have as if tomorrow is not a guarantee.

And keep posting here on TAM. There is plenty of ongoing support here as you go through D and we can always use voices who have 'been there'. The younger version of you is going to post his story soon.


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## Digdug (10 d ago)

Luckylucky said:


> You talk a lot about her distance in the last 3 years, but you mention you had some issue for the previous 17. Emotionally detached and so on, for a long time before she finally shut down.
> 
> Being female, I know she would have been expressing a lot during those 17 years before finally going quiet and withdrawing intimacy. She would have tried a lot to fix things from her end.
> 
> What were the issues she was nagging about for 17 years?


I may have given you the wrong impression.
I would say the rot started to set in after my son was born in 2015. She made it clear I was to get a vasectomy, which I eventually booked, then when I told her she said, oh that seems a bit final!
Anyway, I booked it, we continued to have safe sex , then when i had the all clear from the doctors, in 2017, things tailed off. It's like i wasnt needed for that anymore.
She complained a few times that i talked down to her especially in front of people. I hadnt noticed i had done that, so i kept an eye on it. She said I had improved, but there were other issues. For example, she got a cat early on in our marriage. I hate cats, was dead against it, but caved in, and all o asked was that it didnt go upstairs. That rule got broken within weeks. The cat passed away after 12 years, and I vowed we would not get another. Then at the start of 2022, when I knew she wasnt happy, she broached the subject again. I had been continually saying no. But i took a step back and considered things. Why should i say no just because I dont want one? Give and take. So I agreed and even chopped a catflap into the outside wall well in advance.
I dont think this really earnt me any brownie points. But hey ho.
Just tonight she has told me how she has a call with her solicitor to finalise things tomorrow, and I got upset about it, rightly so. Then the children played up, so she stormed upstairs making a snidey comment about how she didnt ask for all this upset. 
When I now look back, I have Been plagued with snidey comments . She even sniped for voting brexit against her, saying she might be out of a job " thanks to me".
Yet I still love her! I almost wish I had argued with her and had some blazing rows like other couples now. It might have done some good


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Pretty amazing that this thread has made a cheater into a victim.

I wonder if everyone would be so kind so a sex starved wife that did another man?


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> Pretty amazing that this thread has made a cheater into a victim.
> 
> I wonder if everyone would be so kind so a sex starved wife that did another man?


No ****. He was emotionally unavailable, put her down, cheated and insults her like crazy he wants to move on so sex can start but titles this he doesn’t a divorce? He even said he feel cheating was wrong. This is nuts.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Digdug said:


> I may have given you the wrong impression.
> I would say the rot started to set in after my son was born in 2015. She made it clear I was to get a vasectomy, which I eventually booked, then when I told her she said, oh that seems a bit final!
> Anyway, I booked it, we continued to have safe sex , then when i had the all clear from the doctors, in 2017, things tailed off. It's like i wasnt needed for that anymore.
> She complained a few times that i talked down to her especially in front of people. I hadnt noticed i had done that, so i kept an eye on it. She said I had improved, but there were other issues. For example, she got a cat early on in our marriage. I hate cats, was dead against it, but caved in, and all o asked was that it didnt go upstairs. That rule got broken within weeks. The cat passed away after 12 years, and I vowed we would not get another. Then at the start of 2022, when I knew she wasnt happy, she broached the subject again. I had been continually saying no. But i took a step back and considered things. Why should i say no just because I dont want one? Give and take. So I agreed and even chopped a catflap into the outside wall well in advance.
> ...


She’s been plagued with an adulterer.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

lifeistooshort said:


> Pretty amazing that this thread has made a cheater into a victim.
> 
> I wonder if everyone would be so kind so a sex starved wife that did another man?


I don't know if I would say he's been made out to be any kind of victim. I think it's just pretty obvious this relationship has been dead for quite awhile and he is just now getting the memo. 

I think what's real telling here is he hooked up with someone else and she didn't blow a gasket or toss his ass into the street. Yeah, she finally ran the divorce flag up the flag pole after talking about it for years, but the impression I'm getting is that it is simply the next next step to do now that the final nails have been hammered into the marriage's coffin and not that it was some outburst of anger and shock and horror that someone who is actually invested in the marriage would have upon finding out their spouse had cheated. 

I think they just each kept each other around to help raise the kids, pay rent and utilities and keep the household running. And I think in the back of his mind he's been hoping that she might have sex with him again. She kept him around to help with the bills, kids and house work. When she found out about his affair, it was just the final sign of hopelessness. 

It wouldn’t shock me if she has someone all warmed up on deck ready to step up to the plate as well. She may have had someone on the side for quite some time. He is at least admitting to his affair. 

So I don't think it's a case of assigning victim status. I think it's just one of those cases where no one really cares and it just doesn't really matter all that much.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

@Digdug
At this point, I don't think you have any say in rather she divorces you or not. If you did have any say you lost all of that when you cheated. WTF were you thinking?
From her behavior and all the red flags, I'd say she likely cheated as well.
If you could prove that then you could extort her into staying with you (tit for tat) and you could live happily ever after. 
Just be done with it and fix yourself so you don't allow it to happen again.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> I don't know if I would say he's been made out to be any kind of victim. I think it's just pretty obvious this relationship has been dead for quite awhile and he is just now getting the memo.
> 
> I think what's real telling here is he hooked up with someone else and she didn't blow a gasket or toss his ass into the street. Yeah, she finally ran the divorce flag up the flag pole after talking about it for years, but the impression I'm getting is that it is simply the next next step to do now that the final nails have been hammered into the marriage's coffin and not that it was some outburst of anger and shock and horror that someone who is actually invested in the marriage would have upon finding out their spouse had cheated.
> 
> ...


Quite possible. I just feel like a woman who screwed another guy rather then just leaving would've been torn to shreds here.

But I agree the marriage is over. I got to the point with my ex where I didn't care what he did, but I also filed for divorce and left before I started dating.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

lifeistooshort said:


> I wonder if everyone would be so kind so a sex starved wife that did another man?


I can't speak for the other guys, especially the BH's. But I am probably less sympathetic to men who intentionally and willfully reject and deny their wives than I am the other way around. 

If some gal comes on and says she cheated on her H who had been consistently rejecting her for several years, my response will probably be along the lines of, "what took you so long?"


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> I can't speak for the other guys, especially the BH's. But I am probably less sympathetic to men who intentionally and willfully reject and deny their wives than I am the other way around.
> 
> If some gal comes on and says she cheated on her H who had been consistently rejecting her for several years, my response will probably be along the lines of, "what took you so long?"


I believe you. I think you are one of the more even handed posters here when it comes to dealing with each gender.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

lifeistooshort said:


> Quite possible. I just feel like a woman who screwed another guy rather then just leaving would've been torn to shreds here.


We were cross posting, see my additional response above. 

I offer no quarter for either a man or woman that chronically denies their spouse and doesn't do anything to address the issues and just expects their spouse to maintain their domestic, financial and parental duties despite being willfully denied love and affection. 

It's not that I agree with or support adultery per se. But it's a completely predictable and logical ramification of chronic rejection that no one better come crying to me if they have denied their partner for years and then find out their partner is getting it elsewhere.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> We were cross posting, see my additional response above.
> 
> I offer no quarter for either a man or woman that chronically denies their spouse and doesn't do anything to address the issues and just expects their spouse to maintain their domestic, financial and parental duties despite being willfully denied love and affection.
> 
> It's not that I agree with or support adultery per se. But it's a completely predictable and logical ramification of chronic rejection that no one better come crying to me if they have denied their partner for years and then find out their partner is getting it elsewhere.


Are you in support of the female or male here?


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## Digdug (10 d ago)

Lots of posts here vilifying me. Quite rightly so. But looking at this last few responses, the underlying message I have recieved from all my Male counterparts is "I dint blame you" they know why I did what I did. Some of them have been stuck in a loveless marriage. Men are programmed different when it comes to sex , and it's this differential that has and will continue to cause this divide.
It wasnt like my wife didnt want pleasure. Often I would come home and find one of her sex toys on charge or left in the shower. That hurt to think she would rather use them than her own husband. And to blatantly leave them on show. Whenever I do the washing I have to sort her sexy underwear that I never get to see her wearing. Whilst I know I broke my wedding vows, what happened to the "with my body i honour you" one?
Sorry if I'm coming across the victim or harsh. Just woken up here and have slept on this again, on an uncomfortable sofa.


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## Jimi007 (6 mo ago)

I don't think your going to get much sympathy HERE...on TAM...

TRY SI. They love to stroke the cheaters egos


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

There’s so much detachment from your posts, detachment from your wife (it doesn’t sound like you love her much at all? Or even admire her?). Detachment from the women/woman you ‘just had sex with’ and your eagerness to just be married again. You talk so clinically about the next marriage, but you will be married to an actual person with feelings. So my concern is that marriage is simply convenient to you, as your wife mentioned in counselling. 

So quite a few posters have asked some probing questions, that remain unanswered. 

I know many people who like being married, but forget there’s a wife or husband who wants a connection and real partnership. And who has all kinds of needs. I’ve seen some terrible situations where the other spouse is screaming to be seen/heard/admired and cared for. And the other is happy to flirt, cheat, ignore, do their own hobbies, go out reluctantly to social events and put down their spouse, talk to their family & friends on the phone for hours while the wife and kids get ignored… the wife having to call him to dinner 5 times. You get the picture.

Eventually some of these spouse just stop chasing and pleading. And they crack and leave.


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## Digdug (10 d ago)

Luckylucky said:


> There’s so much detachment from your posts, detachment from your wife (it doesn’t sound like you love her much at all? Or even admire her?). Detachment from the women/woman you ‘just had sex with’ and your eagerness to just be married again. You talk so clinically about the next marriage, but you will be married to an actual person with feelings. So my concern is that marriage is simply convenient to you, as your wife mentioned in counselling.
> 
> So quite a few posters have asked some probing questions, that remain unanswered.
> 
> ...


Quite right. I felt like I put a lot of effort into making her life as easy as possible without focusing on the interaction tion and closeness we both needed. We both admit we have struggled to even have a conversation without being interrupted every 5 minutes , or demanded upon by the children.
And no, I certainly was not one of those guys who missed his dinner as he was more interested in something else.
I can see how this has panned out and how this comes across. I'm not asking for anyone to condone what I done. I recognise it was wrong and the gravity of the situation. Merely is there any way of fixing things. Its clear from the responses that no ks the answer.
Losing a 20myear marriage is something I will have to live for for the rest of my life, and its going to be tough for a few years, but never easy.


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## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

Digdug said:


> Hi all
> I am in a dark place right now.
> My wife and I have been married for 20 years, we have two children.
> I am quite a closed book emotionally and personally and this may have had a bearing on my situation.
> ...


Put 2 chairs in the garden, bring something you like do drink to relax (you bear, her wine or whatever, juice, soda, tea, coffee) and talk, tell her thats the moment you need to open up and be vulnerable, to talk about your inner issues and feelings more freely amd if she want to talk, she can talk too.

Tell her you need some of those moments before youre ready to sign the divorce, IF EVER.

If she open up, REMEMBER what she says and act acordingly. Focus on what she says its been missing for so long (she already told you, but youre not getting it).

Thats BONDING. You bond through conversation, LISTENING, openess and vulnerabibity. BE EAGER TO PLEASE HER. Lightly touch her arm here and there while talking. Dont sit far, sit near her so you can reach her without moving.

Thats the 1st step. Making a bridge from where she can "un-step out" if she still has it in her to try to emotionally bond with you. Bc she steped out, she gave up this conection will ever exist.

Make it permanent this moment between you both. Same place, a drink, a snack, talking about your inner world and hoping she talks about hers, ASKING ABOUT HERS, being *THERE* emotionally. Put a movie or something for the kids inside the house.

Reading some good books will likely improve your self awareness and where you lack with your spouse. But the spouse always talk and tell you, show very obvious clues to try to make you understand. Youre just tuned out (by your personality or trauma, who knows) and didnt notice, chose not to _engage_ and bond with her and locked her out.

Those moments are to invite her in.

It doesnt come to you _naturally_ like it comes for others, so build this *special moment* to talk about it (inner world, emotions, love, revisiting memories, share, no pragmatic sh!t or daily schedule). A safe space. You build it and make it permanent.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

jsmart said:


> That is pure projection on her part. She’s stayed with you these past 3 sexless years, to keep you as a housekeeper babysitter. She has been wanting to leave you all these years but didn’t because of how hard you were trying to nice her. After 3 years of no sex, you cracked and went and had an affair. That gave her the perfect excuse to end the marriage with you being the bad guy.
> 
> I would bet my next mortgage payment that she’s had a long term affair, which is why she cut you off and even flinches at your touch. She’s is another man’s girl and wants to be faithful to him.
> 
> There’s no use in doing any digging into if she’s actually having or had an affair. She wants out and is I unlikely to change her mind. Besides, do you want to stay with a cold woman that flinches at your touch. Just get your ducks in a row to move on. After so many years living with an indifferent woman, you will be amazed at how incredible it feels to be with a woman that’s really into you. And no, a woman that was willing to be a side piece does not count or come close to having a woman in a legit relationship.


There seems to be a whole lot of supposition here. She has been emotionally neglected for years, as long as OP got his physical rocks off, everything else was ok. A woman needs her emotional need met as much as a man needs his physical needs met, but I love how quick you are to jump to her having an affair


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Luckylucky said:


> You talk a lot about her distance in the last 3 years, but you mention you had some issue for the previous 17. Emotionally detached and so on, for a long time before she finally shut down.
> 
> Being female, I know she would have been expressing a lot during those 17 years before finally going quiet and withdrawing intimacy. She would have tried a lot to fix things from her end.
> 
> What were the issues she was nagging about for 17 years?


Been there done that, like throwing oneself against a wall, no point, eventually you close down and meet your needs elsewhere, and I do not mean an affair. 17 years is a very very long time.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Digdug said:


> Thanks. Sound advice!


You conveyed the message to her in writing as per my suggestion?

Do it, and then provide an update.



Digdug said:


> I may have given you the wrong impression.
> I would say the rot started to set in after my son was born in 2015. She made it clear I was to get a vasectomy, which I eventually booked, then when I told her she said, oh that seems a bit final!
> Anyway, I booked it, we continued to have safe sex , then when i had the all clear from the doctors, in 2017, things tailed off. It's like i wasnt needed for that anymore.
> She complained a few times that i talked down to her especially in front of people. I hadnt noticed i had done that, so i kept an eye on it. She said I had improved, but there were other issues. For example, she got a cat early on in our marriage. I hate cats, was dead against it, but caved in, and all o asked was that it didnt go upstairs. That rule got broken within weeks. The cat passed away after 12 years, and I vowed we would not get another. Then at the start of 2022, when I knew she wasnt happy, she broached the subject again. I had been continually saying no. But i took a step back and considered things. Why should i say no just because I dont want one? Give and take. So I agreed and even chopped a catflap into the outside wall well in advance.
> ...


Pregnancy and subsequent child birth can affect a woman's hormones which in turn might cause mood swings and shift in attitude for a time.









Baby Blues and Postpartum Depression: Mood Disorders and Pregnancy


Baby blues and postpartum depression symptoms and can be distressing or even debilitating, but effective treatments are available.




www.hopkinsmedicine.org





The vasectomy demand sounds like one of those ****-tests to me. You hinted that your wife was surprised that you booked it (not surprising to me), but I am surprised that you considered it when your heart was not into it.

You should respect your wife and value her feelings but you must have terms of your own. You show weakness to a woman by accepting everything she tells you just to expect sex from her. This is not how it works.


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## Digdug (10 d ago)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> You conveyed the message to her in writing as per my suggestion?
> 
> Do it, and then provide an update.
> 
> ...


I have not done it yet. We are still on xmas holidays here till tomorrow when kids go back.
Waiting till routine starts again and kids are not here


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## Digdug (10 d ago)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> You conveyed the message to her in writing as per my suggestion?
> 
> Do it, and then provide an update.
> 
> ...


I think you misunderstand. She asked me to get it done. I was worried about having it done and the effects it would have on me. As it turns out , I was right to be concerned as the procedure has left me with some discomfort from time to time, which does happen. That said, we both didn't want any more children, and this was a way forward. She had gone through a childbirth and a c section which is a massive thing to go through, this was the very least I could have done. She had been nagging me for sometime.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Digdug said:


> I have not done it yet. We are still on xmas holidays here till tomorrow when kids go back.
> Waiting till routine starts again and kids are not here


OK.

Prepare your write-up in advance and give it to her at the right time as per your judgement.

What you convey to her, should reflect in your responses to her as well. Be good to her but do not beg or plead to her. She is not being honest with you when she feels the need to guard her phone.

Do you suspect anything off in her office?



Digdug said:


> I think you misunderstand. She asked me to get it done. I was worried about having it done and the effects it would have on me. As it turns out , I was right to be concerned as the procedure has left me with some discomfort from time to time, which does happen. That said, we both didn't want any more children, and this was a way forward. She had gone through a childbirth and a c section which is a massive thing to go through, this was the very least I could have done. She had been nagging me for sometime.


There is difference between "option" and "necessity."

C-section would be deemed "necessary" by the doctor in view of her condition at the time of childbirth. And 100% recovery is likely.

Your wife does not take birth control pills? This is an option if you are not comfortable with using condoms.

My point is to not do something that can affect you for life if your heart is not into it.

I will not consider vasectomy if I am not OK with it. I am not capping my family at one child either. This is me though. My wife understands and is fine with it. I can be convincing in my talks as well.


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## Digdug (10 d ago)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> OK.
> 
> Prepare your write-up in advance and give it to her at the right time as per your judgement.
> 
> ...


The pill mucked up hee cycle and gave her other side effects. As for condoms, she always complained they made her sore, but we managed just fine.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Luckylucky said:


> Are you in support of the female or male here?


I’m not really passing any judgement or taking either side here.

i think this marriage died a long time ago if it was ever actually alive and things are just coming to their logical conclusions.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> I’m not really passing any judgement or taking either side here.
> 
> i think this marriage died a long time ago if it was ever actually alive and things are just coming to their logical conclusions.


I'm taking both sides.

Wife needs to get away from this mess of a husband, and she's doing it.

This mess of a husband needs to own his failures, let his wife go, and get on a better path. check check check.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Digdug said:


> Quite right. I felt like I put a lot of effort into making her life as easy as possible without focusing on the interaction tion and closeness we both needed. We both admit we have struggled to even have a conversation without being interrupted every 5 minutes , or demanded upon by the children.
> And no, I certainly was not one of those guys who missed his dinner as he was more interested in something else.
> I can see how this has panned out and how this comes across. I'm not asking for anyone to condone what I done. I recognise it was wrong and the gravity of the situation. Merely is there any way of fixing things. Its clear from the responses that no ks the answer.
> Losing a 20myear marriage is something I will have to live for for the rest of my life, and its going to be tough for a few years, but never easy.


Do you really not get the degree cheating messed up your wife? You seem like you don’t not understand human emotion.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

snowbum said:


> Do you really not get the degree cheating messed up your wife? You seem like you don’t not understand human emotion.


i wonder if he is actually undiagnosed and on the spectrum.

I also wonder if his affair was more a final straw that broke the camel’s back and her final realization that if she wanted to have an actual emotionally close and intimate relationship, it was not going to be with him and the kids are old enough now that they don’t need 24/7 hands on care by both parents in the same house.

this is likely a marriage that will die with a final muffled breath rather than a roar.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> i wonder if he is actually undiagnosed and on the spectrum.
> 
> I also wonder if his affair was more a final straw that broke the camel’s back and her final realization that if she wanted to have an actual emotionally close and intimate relationship, it was not going to be with him and the kids are old enough now that they don’t need 24/7 hands on care by both parents in the same house.
> 
> this is likely a marriage that will die with a final muffled breath rather than a roar.


This somewhat like what happened with my ex hb. Finding out about his ex gf on the side was the final straw on a marriage that I'd already been unhappy in. My ex was also empathy lacking and emotionally unavailable....in fact I wasn't allowed to talk about anything that made him uncomfortable. Sports and the weather were allowed and that's it.

When I thought he was honest and trustworthy I put up with a lot, but once I realized he wasn't I realized he brought nothing of value.

Maybe that's the case here.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> i wonder if he is actually undiagnosed and on the spectrum.
> 
> I also wonder if his affair was more a final straw that broke the camel’s back and her final realization that if she wanted to have an actual emotionally close and intimate relationship, it was not going to be with him and the kids are old enough now that they don’t need 24/7 hands on care by both parents in the same house.
> 
> this is likely a marriage that will die with a final muffled breath rather than a roar.


Seems possible, undiagnosed something, I agree.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

snowbum said:


> Do you really not get the degree cheating messed up your wife? You seem like you don’t not understand human emotion.


I don't see it that way. I see his cheating as a happy moment for his wife. Now she can leave and feel good about it. She longed checked out before his indiscretion. That meant nothing to her.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Mybabysgotit said:


> I don't see it that way. I see his cheating as a happy moment for his wife. Now she can leave and feel good about it. She longed checked out before his indiscretion. That meant nothing to her.


That’s what I think. He said her detachment started after they had their kid. Getting a vasectomy, that it sounded like she didn’t want him to get, didn’t help the situation. She has been wanting to pull the plug on the marriage but didn’t want to be the bad guy. By him having an affair, she got what she wanted, a reason to divorce. He said his affair was only for sex but it doesn’t matter. Never mind that she very likely had an affair that very likely involved an emotional connection which is likely the reason she sexually cut him off.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

jsmart said:


> That’s what I think. He said her detachment started after they had their kid. Getting a vasectomy, that it sounded like she didn’t want him to get, didn’t help the situation. She has been wanting to pull the plug on the marriage but didn’t want to be the bad guy. By him having an affair, she got what she wanted, a reason to divorce. He said his affair was only for sex but it doesn’t matter. Never mind that she very likely had an affair that very likely involved an emotional connection which is likely the reason she sexually cut him off.


So we can assune that a wife who cheats on a guy who's clearly miserable with her did him a favor by getting him to file?

If so then I respect the opinion.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> So we can assune that a wife who cheats on a guy who's clearly miserable with her did him a favor by getting him to file?
> 
> If so then I respect the opinion.


Yes it could be but I suspect that general, not being seen as the bad guy is more important to a woman. We men, expect to be dragged through the mud of public opinion from from family and friends of the couple. 

I also want to add, that I agree with @oldshirt that if a person sexually/emotionally neglects their spouse for too long, that expecting that spouse to be loyal doesn’t make sense. That goes for both men & women.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

jsmart said:


> Yes it could be but I suspect that general, not being seen as the bad guy is more important to a woman. We men, expect to be dragged through the mud of public opinion from from family and friends of the couple.
> 
> I also want to add, that I agree with @oldshirt that if a person sexually/emotionally neglects their spouse for too long, that expecting that spouse to be loyal doesn’t make sense. That goes for both men & women.


I agree with your last statement.....it's unreasonable to expect loyalty if you don't take care of your spouse. But I also expect an honest conversation where you tell your spouse that you won't live like this so you’ll either get your needs met elsewhere or you're out. It's trashy to look elsewhere, hide it, then beg for the marriage....if anything that guarantees he'll be dragged through the mud.

It sounds like neither one has been getting needs met. Will she be understood if she's having an EA because her husband can't emotionally connect? I hope so.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

lifeistooshort said:


> So we can assune that a wife who cheats on a guy who's clearly miserable with her did him a favor by getting him to file?
> 
> If so then I respect the opinion.


yeah sometimes that is the case as well.

i have the feeling there are a lot of men and women both that are just going through the motions of daily living but have no real emotional attachment or investment in the marriage, but since the bills are getting paid, the kids are being fed and the house is operating in an orderly manner, they may be unsatisfied and lonely but they don’t want to be the one to pull the ejection handle without a definable cause they can point a finger at.

the OP doesn’t sound particularly religious, but there are a lot of religious people that don’t think they can divorce unless the spouse commits one of the “A”s (Adultery, Abuse, Addiction etc etc).

So I think the OP simply handed her a golden ticket to move on.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

lifeistooshort said:


> It sounds like neither one has been getting needs met. Will she be understood if she's having an EA because her husband can't emotionally connect? I hope so.


I would understand even if she were having a PA.

We need to remember she was the one asking for more connection and empathy and consideration from the OP.

he was the one that described himself as emotionally closed and measured his worth in the marriage by how many dishes he washed and how many loads of laundry he did.

They sounded pretty closed off from each other going way way back, perhaps even forever. 

if he was the one that had little need for human connection, yet he still went elsewhere to meet basic needs, Then it simply makes sense that the one who wanted connection most and who more actively sought it would also eventually find comfort elsewhere.

That is my logical assumption. In that sense I understand her finding comfort elsewhere.

That is not a moral judgement and i am not saying that there are no moral implications here. 

I am stating that if she had been neglected and deprived for years, it is understandable and a logical consequence that she may find connection elsewhere.

mid someone wants to make the moral argument that she should have left first, that’s their prerogative on moral grounds.

but the way I see it, if one does not try to meet their spouse’s needs, they may or may not follow moral convention to the letter on their way out.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

And I have not seen him say anything about the OW that he got with or seen any description of how they met or got together or anything or whether he has had any further contact with her.

This leads me to believe it was a sex worker, which demonstrates to me an even further disconnect.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> And I have not seen him say anything about the OW that he got with or seen any description of how they met or got together or anything or whether he has had any further contact with her.
> 
> This leads me to believe it was a sex worker, which demonstrates to me an even further disconnect.


Agree. I only saw this:



Digdug said:


> Then, to my shame, i had extra marital activities to fulfill what i wasnt getting from her


Specific activities (plural) to fill the sex void



Digdug said:


> Without going into too much detail, my extra martial activities had no emotional attachment. It was just sex. Once I move out, I will look for a long term partner and the hope we will be both into each other!


"activities" (plural)
"No emotion"
"Just sex"

Most likely a sex worker.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Agree. I only saw this:
> 
> 
> Specific activities (plural) to fill the sex void
> ...


The reason I think this is relevant is I think it gives a little glimpse into the OP’s motives.

Julia Roberts said it best in the movie Pretty Woman - “guys don’t pay hookers for sex, they pay them to leave.”

sex may be the stated product, but the money is handed over so they can walk away.


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## Digdug (10 d ago)

oldshirt said:


> i wonder if he is actually undiagnosed and on the spectrum.
> 
> I also wonder if his affair was more a final straw that broke the camel’s back and her final realization that if she wanted to have an actual emotionally close and intimate relationship, it was not going to be with him and the kids are old enough now that they don’t need 24/7 hands on care by both parents in the same house.
> 
> this is likely a marriage that will die with a final muffled breath rather than a roar.


Apologies for the late replies.
My wife thinks I have aspergers, and she gives this as a reason the tone marriage breakdown, so yes I could well be on the spectrum


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## Digdug (10 d ago)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Agree. I only saw this:
> 
> 
> Specific activities (plural) to fill the sex void
> ...


Interesting comment. Does it make the situation any worse if it was a sex worker?


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## ArthurGPym (Jun 28, 2021)

Digdug said:


> Apologies for the late replies.
> My wife thinks I have aspergers, and she gives this as a reason the tone marriage breakdown, so yes I could well be on the spectrum


Then make an appointment with an educational psychologist and get tested for it. Don't assume anything. ADD, ADHD, ASD and dyslexia can all mimic each other's traits. Only proper testing can determine what you might have. 

If you want a preview, go to Aspergers Adult AQ Test Quiz Online: Autism Spectrum Quotient and take the test.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Digdug said:


> Interesting comment. Does it make the situation any worse if it was a sex worker?


No, not better or worse from an objective viewpoint. Infidelity is infidelity. Of course, the opinion that matters is your wife's.

It's more common for women to be devastated by emotional connection affairs than "just sex" affairs. And men are the opposite. And all generalizations are wrong so there's that.

Having said that, the specifics of an affair can lend insight into your mindset, motive, and intent (and much more). I think that's what @oldshirt was speculating about and I agreed.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Digdug said:


> Interesting comment. Does it make the situation any worse if it was a sex worker?


Not better, not worse. 

But it does give insight into your values and motives.

when you were faced with the possible end of your relationship, You did not reach out for another relationship or connection.

your sex supplier was canceling the sexual contract for good so you paid another woman for that service without any kind of relationship or connection.

The reason your wife is leaving is because she felt like a hooker providing a service but wasn’t getting paid.

You thought you were paying her with housekeeping chores, but the currency she was wanting out of the relationship was love and emotional connection… for which you are broke.

if you are willing to pay green cash for sex without emotional connection, then why would a woman who wants connection want to be with you.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

blackclover3 said:


> do you think she is cheating on you for a long time?
> everything you listed or described checks out as a cheater red flag and more
> 
> phone not leaving her hand then that means there is someone else -
> ...


Amen, amen AND…. AMEN!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

My take:

1. You weren’t a perfect husband (nobody is). But every criticism of you was just a pretext. Her real concern was not emotional but that you made less money. Your becoming a SAHD made things worse.

2. She was having a physical affair for at least the three sexless years.

3. She isn’t in love with you and hasn’t been for a long, long time (if ever).

4. Your affair, if it occurred during those years, was basically beside the point. It was caused by her neglect of your needs, which in turn was caused by her affair.

End it. If you cannot get to her phone, hire a PI. $500 is chump change compared to what you are facing.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

[QUOTE="oldshirt, post: 20685109, member: 284017"[/quote]

*I think what's real telling here is he hooked up with someone else and she didn't blow a gasket or toss his ass into the street. *

This^^^^

She’s been cheating for many years. She doesn’t love him now, if she ever did. Whether or not he cheats, he’s just a roommate and coparent.



> I think they just each kept each other around to help raise the kids, pay rent and utilities and keep the household running. And I think in the back of his mind he's been hoping that she might have sex with him again. She kept him around to help with the bills, kids and house work.


Yes.



> When she found out about his affair, it was just the final sign of hopelessness.


No, she didn’t feel hopeless. She had no hope to lose.

“You say I let you down. You know it’s not like that. If you’re so hurt, then why then don’t you show it? You say you lost your faith, but you know it’s not like that. You had no faith to lose and you know it.”



> It wouldn’t shock me if she has someone all warmed up on deck ready to step up to the plate as well. She may have had someone on the side for quite some time. He is at least admitting to his affair.


She’s been getting her back blown out for over 3 years now.



> So I don't think it's a case of assigning victim status. I think it's just one of those cases where no one really cares and it just doesn't really matter all that much.


She’s the villain and he’s the victim. QED.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

CraigBesuden said:


> [QUOTE="oldshirt, post: 20685109, member: 284017"


*I think what's real telling here is he hooked up with someone else and she didn't blow a gasket or toss his ass into the street. *

This^^^^

She’s been cheating for many years. She doesn’t love him now, if she ever did. Whether or not he cheats, he’s just a roommate and coparent.



Yes.



No, she didn’t feel hopeless. She had no hope to lose.

“You say I let you down. You know it’s not like that. If you’re so hurt, then why then don’t you show it? You say you lost your faith, but you know it’s not like that. You had no faith to lose and you know it.”



She’s been getting her back blown out for over 3 years now.



She’s the villain and he’s the victim. QED.
[/QUOTE]

How did we get from HIM cheating to his marriage ending, to her cheating? I’m baffled. He has cheated and his wife wants a divorce.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CraigBesuden said:


> She’s the villain and he’s the victim. QED.


if things are the way he described it, I don’t really see villain vs innocent victim here.

I see two incompatible human beings, who probably should have split up 19 years ago., where neither are getting their needs met.

We can try to make moral arguments and assign degree of blame like two insurance companies after a car wreck.

or we can chalk it up to two people who just do not click together and things are just finally coming to their logical conclusion and both will probably be better off in a short time.

Is he really morally superior to her when he admits that she has been expressing her concerns for years and he responds by doing more dishes and paying prostitutes and thinking she should be good with that? 

At minimum he was asleep at the wheel.

he doesn’t think she cheated but I would not be surprised if she did and I would not be surprised if she did before him.

But I don’t know if that automatically makes her the bad guy or if it makes her more human.

Just reading his words makes him sound so detached you have to wonder how they even lasted this long.

There doesn’t always have to be a villain and victim. Sometimes it’s just two people who aren’t compatible and they each would be better off apart.

Does this mean I condone cheating wives and husbands who solicit prostitutes? 
No. But like in football when there are multiple flags on the field and both the offense and the defense are flagged for clipping, they both cancel each other out and the game resumes.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> if things are the way he described it, I don’t really see villain vs innocent victim here.
> 
> I see two incompatible human beings, who probably should have split up 19 years ago., where neither are getting their needs met.
> 
> ...


His cheating was disgusting and inexcusable. By doing that, he surrendered the moral high ground.

But it appears that it was recent. If he did it first, then she cut him off and became distant, I would have a very different view.

The cheating spouse often blames the betrayed spouse for anything and everything. Here, the wife was doing that to OP. She suddenly cut him off sexually, so as to be faithful to her AP.

OP is taking his wife’s criticisms seriously. If the wife is cheating, though, they are just pretexts. If he has always been cold and distant, why wasn’t it a problem before they married? Why not a problem for 17 years of their marriage? Then suddenly his personality deficiencies are so huge that she only wants sex once a year (at most)? I don’t buy it. And she’s constantly on her phone….

When the WS makes criticisms of the BS, my response is that while there may be reasons for cheating there are no excuses. And in this case, I’m not even sure that the criticisms are even reasons; they are probably just excuses to try and calm her guilt.

If they are just an unhappy couple going to MC, I’m fine with “It takes two to tango.” But if the criticisms of OP come from a cheating spouse then I don’t want to hear it.

I don’t think OP should be accepting and internalizing her criticisms and changing himself to please her. No matter what he does, the situation will not improve. Why? Because her criticisms are mere pretexts. She will keep moving the goal posts so that he is always falling short.

Yes, he shouldn’t have cheated. He should have gotten the proof that she’s been cheating on him for years and then divorce her. Or, if they both want to be socially monogamous for the sake of the kids (or for financial reasons), then they should have an open marriage. But trying to change himself to fix the marriage is a fool’s errand if she has an AP and doesn’t want it to work.

Happily, she appears dead set on divorce and is treating him well during it. That is the best outcome here. Split amicably, coparent well, and move on with your lives. (She must be overjoyed that he cheated and never caught her cheating, so she can divorce him without any damage to her reputation.)


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## Digdug (10 d ago)

Wow. Lots to take on board. Things have moved on a pace here. I looked at two properties yesterday, one crap, the other was ideal. I came home and made sure she was 100% sure this was what she wanted and there was no going back. She confirmed it.
So now I have put an offer in and will await the outcome.
Before all this kicked off, I had a plan to change our lifestyle and that would have meant sacrifices on her half. I wanted at least two nights a week where the phone and tech was banned. We can then sit an talk, like people used to do. I wanted one night a month for date night. So we could re connect .
Reading through all your comments, its clear none of that would have worked.
I really do appreciate all of your comments and advice, even if some of it is harsh and to the point. It's been a help. Even the blatant accusation I used a prostitute! That's never been said by me, it's been assumed though.
I now need to work on being a better person, getting a diagnosis for aspergers, and learn from this so I can move forward socially.
The hardest part will be getting over my love for her, that's the biggest mountain I need to climb


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## Jimi007 (6 mo ago)

Where does the OP say his wife was having an affair 🤔 ?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Jimi007 said:


> Where does the OP say his wife was having an affair 🤔 ?


All women who aren't putting out on demand and don't care what hubby does must be having an affair. There's no other possible explanation for it.

SMH


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Jimi007 said:


> Where does the OP say his wife was having an affair  ?


Nobody ever said that OP said that. He never provided that conclusion. Instead, he provided facts that support that conclusion.

There are patterns in these posts. The spouse constantly on the phone and never giving the other spouse an opportunity to look at it is a big one. There are many others that posters have noted above. The signs all clearly point in one direction.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Digdug said:


> Even the blatant accusation I used a prostitute! That's never been said by me, it's been assumed though.


Part of that assumption comes from the fact that if we are wrong and you have not obtained the services of a sex worker, you have not corrected us or denied it.

Now personally, as long as it was a consenting adult and you mutually agreed upon the fee for the service, I don’t have an issue with it.

But in the interest of transparency and disclosure, did you or did you not exchange money or material goods for sexual activities?

If you did not not exchange money or material goods for sex acts, this is your opportunity to correct and clarify.


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## Digdug (10 d ago)

oldshirt said:


> Part of that assumption comes from the fact that if we are wrong and you have not obtained the services of a sex worker, you have not corrected us or denied it.
> 
> Now personally, as long as it was a consenting adult and you mutually agreed upon the fee for the service, I don’t have an issue with it.
> 
> ...


Yes I did !


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Digdug said:


> Before all this kicked off, I had a plan to change our lifestyle and that would have meant sacrifices on her half. I wanted at least two nights a week where the phone and tech was banned. We can then sit an talk, like people used to do. I wanted one night a month for date night. So we could re connect .
> Reading through all your comments, its clear none of that would have worked.


That's a good plan you had there.

That might have worked prior to 3 years ago, or at some point in between now and then.

But, yea... it's a high likelihood it is now a too-little too-late scenario, unfortunately.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Digdug said:


> Yes I did !


Collectively, TAM is pretty good at reading people & situations. Somebody always can see one layer deeper.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CraigBesuden said:


> His cheating was disgusting and inexcusable. By doing that, he surrendered the moral high ground.
> 
> But it appears that it was recent. If he did it first, then she cut him off and became distant, I would have a very different view.
> 
> ...


In the case of normal, loving, emotionally invested husband dedicated to health and sanctity of his marriage, I would agree with you. 

But I think this is an altogether different scenario.

they are so disconnected and separate in their temperaments that typical red pill arguments don’t really apply.

When she made her numerous complaints known, did he lift a finger to try to meet her where she was at?

yes he went to MC when the sex spigot was shutting down, but when the MC wanted to talk about all this silly emotional and relationship stuff, he lost interest.

my suspicion is she has been involved to one degree or another with someone or a variety of someone(s) for years.

did he bother to look into WHY she was turning off the sex spigot? Did he even ask if she was seeing someone else? (Not that that is effective but it’s at least posing the question)

I have no quarter for people that knowingly and willfully deny their spouse.

HOWEVER, I also have no sympathy for people that have been cut off for multiple YEARS and do nothing about it. 

IMHO they are completely disconnected and each remained under one roof for child rearing, financial and housekeeping purposes.

he only cares (slightly) now because now he has to come to terms that she will probably never fck him again and that he won’t have access to her financial resources.

other than that, he sounds pretty content to be gone with her.

So I do not see this in terms of morality or good guy vs bad guy thing.

i see two fallible humans that are incompatible for continuing this relationship any longer and things are coming to their natural conclusion.

Natural does not always conform with a societal standard of morality.


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## SoulCrushed (8 d ago)

To the OP: I feel like I am in a very similar situation as you, however I have not cheated on my wife. We've been together for nearly 20 years, two beautiful children, paid off mortgage, and most aspects of our life seem to be ideal. We go on vacations together, usually her choice of location, we go out on dates fairly regularly, with me being the one making the arrangements, but she never seems to be happy with me, doesn't seem interested in sexual activity and I feel like I have to be nearly perfect for weeks at a time, otherwise she tells me that she loves be but she doesn't like me. We do have sex occassionally, maybe once or twice a month when things are bad but slightly more frequently when I haven't done anyhing to make her dislike me, but she seems disinterested in I try to flirt with her, she doesn't initiate physical intimacy and she used to invite me to join her in the shower from time to time and now a joint shower is off limits as the shower is her "private time." She has complained about me losing my temper with our children, which maybe happens once every month or two, but generally I'm relaxed, calm in tense situations and if I actually yell it's after my wife and I have both reached our limit with a child and have hit our bioling point. She also says I punish her by giving her the silent treatment and being cold to her if we don't have any intimacy, which is true, but I've been working on that. More than not I feel like I am the last priority. Her work, the kids, her friends, vacations, and the next things she wants to do (concerts, movies, dinner plans) are all more important than how I feel or the needs that I have. We went to therapy a number of years ago and it helped, and I have recently gone to two seperate therapists, one who has worked with men who have sexual frustration in their relationships, and our original therapist. Both have said that my hopes and expectations are normal and that my wife and I have different sex drives as well as different love languages. Our original therapist suggested that perhaps my wife just wanted to have kids and that I'll need to decide if I want to continue to be in a relationship where I am no longer desired and need to try and be perfect all of the time. I worked from home during the pandemic and much like the OP, I was with my kids each day getting them on their computers to do virtual school while doing my own job. My kids leave the lights on all time. In addition to doing all of the yard work, waking up before anyone else to snow blowing the driveway in the winter, fixing anything that breaks around the house, replacing air filters and light bulbs and smoke detector batteries, dealing with all technology challenges, doing the grocery shopping, make my daugter's breakfast and lunch each day (my other daughter is older and buys lunch at school), I try to take household duties off of my wife's hands whenever I can. I run, fold and put away laundry whenever it's needed. I run and empty the dishwasher as much as possible. 

Most days my wife comes home from work (she gets home 90 minutes before me most days) and she cooks dinner for herself and if the kids want any of it they may eat some too, but when I get home I either eat whatever is remaining from what she made by myself or I need to cook something for myself and the kids if they didn't eat what she made. We seem to only eat together as a family when I pick something up or I make one of her favorite meals (usually chicken parm). When I get home, she is usually finishing up dinner or doing something with the kids and within 30 minutes she tells me she is going to take a shower, after her shower she gets in her pajamas and gets in bed and plays on her phone while I hang out with the kids until their bedtime. Some nights she goes out with her female friend from work or her female friends from her childhood for dinner. There are nights when my kids have activities that start before I get home, so she is bringing them to singing lessons or dance once or twice a week, but I always offer to pick them up and bring them home and in many cases my wife seems appreciative that I saved her one trip out again. At bed time she usually wants to watch "her shows" and typically has drama reality TV on while scrolling endlessly through gossip websites, checking her email constantly, texting her friends and playing solitaire. While I try to focus on being a good dad, trying to make myself happy and trying to engage in conversation with her, I have a hard time thinking about the fact that we maybe spend 10-15 minutes a week (sometimes once every two or three weeks), while she spends 3 hours each night on her phone and watching TV. I've asked her to go back to therapy and she says she doesn't want to go through it again. I've asked her if we can have a night or two each week with no phones or TV and she won't do it. She says she loves me and that she is in love with me, and that she notices that I've been trying to do the things she wants from me, but if I do one thing she doesn't like, she says that she doesn't want to do this anymore and shuts down and gives me the same silent treatment that she complains I give her when we aren't intimate. 

OP: does this sound familiar? I have never truly considered cheating on my wife, but I do miss the feelings of being desired. I know our frequency of intimacy is higher than yours was, but even though it occurs more often, it often feels very transactional and not an expression of our love and attraction. I wonder if my mariage will go in the same direction as yours, despite the fact that I haven't cheated and could never see myself cheating. Sometimes I wonder if those dating apps would help me find someone with similar physical needs if my wife and I divorced, however I would much prefer to rediscover the spark I had with my wife, even if it's a faint spark, as I said above, we make such a good team in so many ways.

Sorry to the OP if I co-opted your post. I saw so many similarities that resonated with me and it helped me express my experience and hopefully it's useful to know you aren't the only one going through it. I'm sorry it got so bad for you that it resulted in your cheating on your wife, but I am also sorry for your wife that she had to experience her husband opting to cheat on her.


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## Digdug (10 d ago)

SoulCrushed said:


> To the OP: I feel like I am in a very similar situation as you, however I have not cheated on my wife. We've been together for nearly 20 years, two beautiful children, paid off mortgage, and most aspects of our life seem to be ideal. We go on vacations together, usually her choice of location, we go out on dates fairly regularly, with me being the one making the arrangements, but she never seems to be happy with me, doesn't seem interested in sexual activity and I feel like I have to be nearly perfect for weeks at a time, otherwise she tells me that she loves be but she doesn't like me. We do have sex occassionally, maybe once or twice a month when things are bad but slightly more frequently when I haven't done anyhing to make her dislike me, but she seems disinterested in I try to flirt with her, she doesn't initiate physical intimacy and she used to invite me to join her in the shower from time to time and now a joint shower is off limits as the shower is her "private time." She has complained about me losing my temper with our children, which maybe happens once every month or two, but generally I'm relaxed, calm in tense situations and if I actually yell it's after my wife and I have both reached our limit with a child and have hit our bioling point. She also says I punish her by giving her the silent treatment and being cold to her if we don't have any intimacy, which is true, but I've been working on that. More than not I feel like I am the last priority. Her work, the kids, her friends, vacations, and the next things she wants to do (concerts, movies, dinner plans) are all more important than how I feel or the needs that I have. We went to therapy a number of years ago and it helped, and I have recently gone to two seperate therapists, one who has worked with men who have sexual frustration in their relationships, and our original therapist. Both have said that my hopes and expectations are normal and that my wife and I have different sex drives as well as different love languages. Our original therapist suggested that perhaps my wife just wanted to have kids and that I'll need to decide if I want to continue to be in a relationship where I am no longer desired and need to try and be perfect all of the time. I worked from home during the pandemic and much like the OP, I was with my kids each day getting them on their computers to do virtual school while doing my own job. My kids leave the lights on all time. In addition to doing all of the yard work, waking up before anyone else to snow blowing the driveway in the winter, fixing anything that breaks around the house, replacing air filters and light bulbs and smoke detector batteries, dealing with all technology challenges, doing the grocery shopping, make my daugter's breakfast and lunch each day (my other daughter is older and buys lunch at school), I try to take household duties off of my wife's hands whenever I can. I run, fold and put away laundry whenever it's needed. I run and empty the dishwasher as much as possible.
> 
> Most days my wife comes home from work (she gets home 90 minutes before me most days) and she cooks dinner for herself and if the kids want any of it they may eat some too, but when I get home I either eat whatever is remaining from what she made by myself or I need to cook something for myself and the kids if they didn't eat what she made. We seem to only eat together as a family when I pick something up or I make one of her favorite meals (usually chicken parm). When I get home, she is usually finishing up dinner or doing something with the kids and within 30 minutes she tells me she is going to take a shower, after her shower she gets in her pajamas and gets in bed and plays on her phone while I hang out with the kids until their bedtime. Some nights she goes out with her female friend from work or her female friends from her childhood for dinner. There are nights when my kids have activities that start before I get home, so she is bringing them to singing lessons or dance once or twice a week, but I always offer to pick them up and bring them home and in many cases my wife seems appreciative that I saved her one trip out again. At bed time she usually wants to watch "her shows" and typically has drama reality TV on while scrolling endlessly through gossip websites, checking her email constantly, texting her friends and playing solitaire. While I try to focus on being a good dad, trying to make myself happy and trying to engage in conversation with her, I have a hard time thinking about the fact that we maybe spend 10-15 minutes a week (sometimes once every two or three weeks), while she spends 3 hours each night on her phone and watching TV. I've asked her to go back to therapy and she says she doesn't want to go through it again. I've asked her if we can have a night or two each week with no phones or TV and she won't do it. She says she loves me and that she is in love with me, and that she notices that I've been trying to do the things she wants from me, but if I do one thing she doesn't like, she says that she doesn't want to do this anymore and shuts down and gives me the same silent treatment that she complains I give her when we aren't intimate.
> 
> ...


My goodness. Reading that was sounding just like me, without the cheating. Can I ask, do you get to see your wife in sexy underwear, topless or even naked from time to time without it leading to sex? I never even got that in the last couple of years.
I have enourmous enormous sympathy for you. It sounds like you are in the same situation, almost.
I hope you can work things out and not end up like me!


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## Digdug (10 d ago)

oldshirt said:


> yes he went to MC when the sex spigot was shutting down, but when the MC wanted to talk about all this silly emotional and relationship stuff, he lost interest.



Where did I say I lost interest? 


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Digdug said:


> Where did I say I lost interest?





Digdug said:


> It was not helpful. She spent first session asking about our families. I did touch on the physical aspect earlier on, and the wife dismissed it.
> Then we talked about going on a date night, then it was discussed at the next session, where she asked if it was a success, but my wife said it felt too formal and not natural. It had been so long since we both went out just the two of us, so I understand that to be honest


what I was referring to is you not having any interest in continuing MC.

i can’t say that I necessarily blame you and you did state that it was your wife that put the kabosh on further MC.


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## SoulCrushed (8 d ago)

Digdug said:


> My goodness. Reading that was sounding just like me, without the cheating. Can I ask, do you get to see your wife in sexy underwear, topless or even naked from time to time without it leading to sex? I never even got that in the last couple of years.
> I have enourmous enormous sympathy for you. It sounds like you are in the same situation, almost.
> I hope you can work things out and not end up like me!


My wife has not worn sexy underwear in years. My natural attraction for her makes any underwear she wears appear sexy to me, but because I know she doesn't have the same sex drive that I do, when I see her naked or in just her underwear I try not to suggest or pressure her into sex just because I don't want her to feel like she has to "service" me whenever I want. I do wish she might flash me before going into the shower or grope me out of the blue, just to demonstrate that she is sexually attracted to me, but that part of our relationship has not been a priority for years. When we do have sex, it is usually in the evening after the kids have gone to bed, and she will get naked with me, but she only wants to have sex one way (missionary) so I can keep her warm. She won't let me stimulate her or try to give her pleasure in any other way, which is why I said it feels transactional. I have my own childhood trauma - raised by a single mom, who was always working and my dad moved to another state, so I have fears of abandonment and a need for affection, but I feel like her parents expected her to be perfect and if she wasn't then they were angry and her dad would yell and her mom would give her the silent treatment. She also mentioned that her mom's church had a priest that did some bad things and her overall personal faith (catholic) seems to favor shame and guilt when it comes to sex over caring and passion. I feel like she thinks I am the bad guy, and we are not compatible in the long term, but like you, I still love my wife, find her to be beautiful, smart, and caring for others....just not so much for me...


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## Digdug (10 d ago)

SoulCrushed said:


> My wife has not worn sexy underwear in years. My natural attraction for her makes any underwear she wears appear sexy to me, but because I know she doesn't have the same sex drive that I do, when I see her naked or in just her underwear I try not to suggest or pressure her into sex just because I don't want her to feel like she has to "service" me whenever I want. I do wish she might flash me before going into the shower or grope me out of the blue, just to demonstrate that she is sexually attracted to me, but that part of our relationship has not been a priority for years. When we do have sex, it is usually in the evening after the kids have gone to bed, and she will get naked with me, but she only wants to have sex one way (missionary) so I can keep her warm. She won't let me stimulate her or try to give her pleasure in any other way, which is why I said it feels transactional. I have my own childhood trauma - raised by a single mom, who was always working and my dad moved to another state, so I have fears of abandonment and a need for affection, but I feel like her parents expected her to be perfect and if she wasn't then they were angry and her dad would yell and her mom would give her the silent treatment. She also mentioned that her mom's church had a priest that did some bad things and her overall personal faith (catholic) seems to favor shame and guilt when it comes to sex over caring and passion. I feel like she thinks I am the bad guy, and we are not compatible in the long term, but like you, I still love my wife, find her to be beautiful, smart, and caring for others....just not so much for me...


Blimey. This really does sound familiar. Sex in missionary and thats about it. And her underwear to her wasnt sexy, but it was to me! I used to get a floor show before bed, where the puppies would come out, but that all stilled as she would come to bed an hour or so after me and I would be asleep.
Blimey mate, if you werent so far away we can chew the fat in the pub over this


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## SoulCrushed (8 d ago)

Digdug said:


> Blimey. This really does sound familiar. Sex in missionary and thats about it. And her underwear to her wasnt sexy, but it was to me! I used to get a floor show before bed, where the puppies would come out, but that all stilled as she would come to bed an hour or so after me and I would be asleep.
> Blimey mate, if you werent so far away we can chew the fat in the pub over this


My neighbor is experiencing something very similar, although I am still more fortunate than him as his wife is interested in a physical relationship once every month or two, but he doesn't know what to do either. I'm not sure if this has something to do with screen based technology influencing brain chemistry, or our therapist is correct in saying that there are a lot of couples with mismatched sex drives and different love languages. For the last year I've been romanticizing the idea of giving my wife what she seems to want, and giving up on trying so hard to keep our marriage together and finding someone who is more compatible sexually, but it sounds like other people who have posted have experience with this type of thing and it doesn't always work out that way. As a person raised by a single mother, with a dad who was never around, the last thing I want to do is put my kids in the same situation that I was in. 

Keep us posted on how things are going with you. Perhaps at the very least you can help me and anyone else out there who stumbles across this post figure out how we can try to be happy again.


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## Digdug (10 d ago)

Tonight I discovered my wife's profile on a dating site. I confronted her on what's app, as she has gone out. She claimed she set it up when she was angry at me now I'm suspicious. I told her it looked 
Planned, and she has accused me of turning it around on her. .


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Digdug said:


> Tonight I discovered my wife's profile on a dating site. I confronted her on what's app, as she has gone out. She claimed she set it up when she was angry at me now I'm suspicious. I told her it looked
> Planned, and she has accused me of turning it around on her. .


what is there to be “suspicious “ of?

This is blatantly obvious right in front of your eyes?


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Wow, these are some depressing marriages that you guys are settling for. Work on yourself to up your confidence get your financial ducks in a row, then bounce. Life is too short to live with a miserable woman, who very likely is or has stepped on you guys.


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## Digdug (10 d ago)

Final update. I managed to chat with the wife last night. Deffo no going back sadly.
I am I pieces over it but advice to move on from you guys has helped. I have had an offer I made on a flat accepted today, so I am making plans to move out once my finances are sorted.
A good friend and his wife have both gone through divorce and are reassuring me that things will get better for me. 
Yesterday I spent the day clearing gutters on the house, cleared all the leaves and tried to make the house in good order for her. 
I dont think it will ever be done again, unless she gets a new fella which may not be for a while.


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## Jimi007 (6 mo ago)

Dating profile ? You should have made your own and played it out . See how far she's already gone. Yes , she is cheating


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## Digdug (10 d ago)

Jimi007 said:


> Dating profile ? You should have made your own and played it out . See how far she's already gone. Yes , she is cheating


I'm not vindictive. And besides, we had a discussion about it, she ad witted she set it up when she was hurt to see what it was all about and had loads of messages from asians and weirdos. That really upset her so she deleted it. I checked and it has gone. She assures me she doenst want to find live using a dating app. I truly believe she is not cheating.i just do


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## Jimi007 (6 mo ago)

Digdug said:


> I'm not vindictive. And besides, we had a discussion about it, she ad witted she set it up when she was hurt to see what it was all about and had loads of messages from asians and weirdos. That really upset her so she deleted it. I checked and it has gone. She assures me she doenst want to find live using a dating app. I truly believe she is not cheating.i just do


You need to be slapped back into conscienceness . She set up a dating profile for a reason...Not because of an argument. 
You can't be that naive....Good Luck , your F$ cked


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