# wife and best friend having (at least) an EA



## bff

My story probably starts like a lot of others. The signs have been there for a long time but I chose to ignore them because I'm confrontation averse and was in denial. But, I'm now sure my wife and my best friend have been having a secret relationship - no evidence (yet) of anything physical - for several years.

We spend a lot of time together (wife, friend, me) with groups of friends, so it's always been obvious to me that they are close with each other. I guess I never really understood how close. I won't go into all the details of the things that tipped me off, but I got that "6th sense" that they were talking with each other when I wasn't around.

After suspicion got the best of me, I finally took the time to dig around and found her cell phone bills. She and my friend have been talking about 5-6 times PER DAY for at least the last year. That's all the phone bills I was able to find. Who knows how long it has been going on. I see lots of calls that correspond with the time she's commuting to work and when she's at lunch. I looked at some times when I called her, and I was able to see that I interrupted her call with him, then as soon as she and I were off the phone, she called him right back. Neither of them will ever call the other when I'm present, so they are clearly concealing their conversations from me.

My job takes me to conferences all over the country for a week at a time once or twice a month, and I can see that when I've been out of town, many of the calls are later in the evening. Not sure if that is evidence that he's NOT coming over?? Wishful thinking, perhaps.

So now I'm not sure what to do. I think the first thing I have to do for my own sanity if figure out if there's a physical part to this relationship. How do I do that? Hidden camera? Hire a PI? I'm not sure I could afford that.

Of course, I'm already thinking ahead to what I'll do whether I do or do not find any evidence of physical contact. This guy is (was?) my best friend. Between her and him, they are pretty much my whole world. We run in the same social circles, so cutting them off would be a big mess.

edited to add: BTW, all the other normal signs of an affair exist, too. Secretive with phone, spending more time online, sex trailed off considerably, seems more distant and so on and so on.

Any thoughts on where I should go from here?


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## TDSC60

Is it just phone calls? Have you been able to look at text messages or emails? Any kids? How long married?

VAR in the bedroom plus any room you think she would be likely to take his calls and definitely one in her car.

Edit to add: Key logger on her computer. What type phone does she have?


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## keko

Double betrayel, sorry to hear bff.

Are you curently in your house or away on conference?

Try placing a VAR(voice activated recorder) in her car to listen to the conversations they're having. 

Which phone is she using? You might be able get texts(deleted or not) from her phone.


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## bff

Just phone calls that I have found out about. Text message app is set to not save history for just his number (I snuck a peek at her phone when she forgot it when going to the gym). I don't know her email password, so I haven't tried looking at email.

No kids, but are in the middle of doing fertility stuff. Oddly enough, we're not really "trying naturally" any more, just focused on the IVF treatments. Married almost 7 years. That kids could be involved soon is the reason for my sense of urgency.


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## AngryandUsed

Before anything, cool yourself. Dont confront WITHOUT evidences.

Now act normal.

You should first try to get the texts from her mobile phone. There are software to do that.

VAR in her car would give you more info.

Hang on here. People will chime in to give further advise.


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## Shaggy

I think you will find out a lot of info if you use a couple of VARs where you know she calls him from, especially her car and in the house.

Do not confront ortip your hand until you have hard evidence and know the full extent of the affair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

Put a key logger on the PC to get all her passwords. You only get one shot at this so don't jump the gun.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anonymouskitty

Keylogger on the comp mate.This will help you retrieve passwords and the emails subsequently

VAR is her car, under the driver's seat. Use heavy duty velcro to secure it in place. Keep a VAR in the bedroom and near the telephone too(keep it hidden).

And keep the IVF treatments going, and play dumb for now.


What do you propose to do once you have enough evidence?


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## wiigirl

AngryandUsed said:


> Before anything, cool yourself. Dont confront WITHOUT evidences.
> 
> Now act normal.
> 
> You should first try to get the texts from her mobile phone. There are software to do that.
> 
> VAR in her car would give you more info.
> 
> Hang on here. People will chime in to give further advise.












Seriously good advice...go ninja...and keep emotions out for now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko

bff said:


> (I snuck a peek at her phone when she forgot it when going to the gym).


How often does she go to gym? Is it on a regular schedule or whenever she likes?


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## bff

Thanks for the quick replies and advice, everyone! I did a little web reading before posting here and acting normal is consistent advice. As much as I want to confront them both right now, I do realize that this would kill all hopes of ever getting to the truth about whether it got physical. It sounds like hearing what they are saying is the next best step. 

Thanks again for the support. Just saying this out loud (virtually) is a big step and a huge weight that I have been carrying around on just my own shoulders.

The friend has a girl that he lives with, but I don't know her very well. When we all hang out, she's rarely a long.


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## Almostrecovered

1) read the newbie link in my signature, get familiar with affairs and the terminology
2) go to walmart or best buy, get at least 2 VAR's. Place one with heavy duty velcro under the seat of her car. Place an another in the home where you think she would make calls or have booty calls.
3) download a keylogger
4) tell us what kind of phone she has, perhaps we can help with getting to those texts


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## iheartlife

VAR.

Calling patterns identical to my H's, he was in a long term affair with a former coworker.

Wish I had known about VARs! I caught him initially but they got back together behind my back. A VAR for just a week would have busted it wide open, but it never occurred to me.

Also get the book Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass ASAP, you need to learn about the power of infatuation. She was a leading infidelity reasearcher and the book is very detailed and excellent.

Do NOT confront too early and never disclose your sources.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor

> 1) *read the newbie link* in my signature, get familiar with affairs and the terminology
> 2) go to walmart or best buy, get at least 2 VAR's. Place one with heavy duty velcro under the seat of her car. Place an another in the home where you think she would make calls or have booty calls.
> 3) download a keylogger
> 4) tell us what kind of phone she has, perhaps we can help with getting to those texts



Read, plan and then when you have secured the evidence expose to his wife/family/parents then confront your wife.


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## anonymouskitty

One good thing about OP is he's not in denial. He's probably going to be one of those rare ones that actually listen


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## TDSC60

bff said:


> Just phone calls that I have found out about. Text message app is set to not save history for just his number (I snuck a peek at her phone when she forgot it when going to the gym). I don't know her email password, so I haven't tried looking at email.
> 
> No kids, but are in the middle of doing fertility stuff. Oddly enough, we're not really "trying naturally" any more, just focused on the IVF treatments. Married almost 7 years. That kids could be involved soon is the reason for my sense of urgency.


Keyloggers and VARs for sure. App is set to delete history for his number only?  Big red flag!! This is a definite confirmation that something inappropriate is going on since she is making efforts to hide only their text history.

OH - Stop the treatments and definitely stop trying to have kids with this woman until you find out what is going on. If she turns up pregnant now - you are going to wonder if the child is yours.

You never said - type of phone? If it is an iPhone - there is a method to recover a back-up file that stores all text history, deleted or not.


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## anonymouskitty

TDSC60 said:


> Keyloggers and VARs for sure. App is set to delete history for his number only?  Big red flag!! This is a definite confirmation that something inappropriate is going on since she is making efforts to hide only their text history.
> 
> OH - Stop the treatments and definitely stop trying to have kids with this woman until you find out what is going on. If she turns up pregnant now - you are going to wonder if the child is yours.
> 
> You never said - type of phone? If it is an iPhone - there is a method to recover a back-up file that stores all text history, deleted or not.


NO!!,Don't stop the treatments(delay it) and don't change your sex life drastically , wear a condom maybe. Gather enough evidence about her affair before you take serious action. You do something drastic and they'll be on to you.


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## Unsure in Seattle

Do not take a chance on getting her pregnant. Simply do not.


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## TDSC60

anonymouskitty said:


> NO!!,Don't stop the treatments(delay it) and don't change your sex life drastically , wear a condom maybe. Gather enough evidence about her affair before you take serious action


AK - you're right. 

Don't do anything out of the ordinary that would alert them to your suspicions. 

Sorry - got carried away.


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## Shaggy

Aldo get contact info for the OMs gf like her cell number so when you do expose you can reach her.

You can also consider a GPS tracker on your wife's car.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

Oh and make sure she doesn't find you posting here. Use your browser in private mode and set your account settings to not send you email for every post.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## I'm The Prize

I agree with the VARs and the key logger. As for the GPS, depending on what kind of phone service you have you may be able to use family GPS locator to see where the phone is. Don't make the same mistake I did. Really have proof before you confront. And when you do confront DO NOT tell them how you know. Just give them the facts. When you tell them how you know they learn what not to do and take it underground.


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## snap

Yes, collect all the information you can, to see where you stand. Expect the worst (if it turns out wrong you can only be pleasantly surprised then). So far it points to a long-term, physical affair. There is absolutely no reason for them to have this tight, secret kind of communication for over the year: clearly not a case of surprise to your birthday party. Few men will invest so much into communication with reachable, reciprocating woman without any physical relationship.


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## bff

OK, all sorts of good advice here. I can't keep up.

I'm careful about covering my tracks posting here. I hope I haven't given enough details that she or anyone will find it. I have a feeling it has been going on so long that neither are actively worried about me being on to them as long as they don't slip up in a big way. 

We are in between IVF treatments right now and there is no risk of her initiating sex with me so I guess there is a silver lining there. If she gets pregnant right now, I will know on thing for sure. It is not mine. 

Phone is an android from sprint - I do not know the exact model. Given how much they seem to be talking on the phone according to the records, I think that is my best bet. VAR under the seat of her car. She drives a Lexus, so it should be nice and quiet in there. She has blue tooth, so I bet I can hear both sides of the conversation. I'm going to get on that right away. I am going out of town in a couple weeks for a conference out west. That will be a good time to hear any sort of meeting plans.

Someone asked about going to the gym. She works only mid-day and goes to the gym before work. The guy works in the other direction from her office. He works regular hours and has the type of job where he cannot get away from work easily during the day. She doesn't really have any time that I can't account for when I think they could get together other than when I go to my conferences. But that is often enough.


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## WorkingOnMe

If you have no kids and are out of town, then your bed would be the most logical place for them to have sex on a regular basis. So, ya, VAR in the bedroom.


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## snap

You sound like a smart guy.

She works part-time and drives a Lexus. Means you busting your *** affords her comfortable lifestyle and enough time to have a fling on the side.

I know you're not quite there yet, but when you confront you can expect her put up the most spectacular show of remorse you ever seen outside of theater performances. I'd suggest you still to file just to see her true colors.


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## keko

bff said:


> Phone is an android from sprint - I do not know the exact model. Given how much they seem to be talking on the phone according to the records, I think that is my best bet. VAR under the seat of her car. She drives a Lexus, so it should be nice and quiet in there. She has blue tooth, so I bet I can hear both sides of the conversation. I'm going to get on that right away. I am going out of town in a couple weeks for a conference out west. That will be a good time to hear any sort of meeting plans.
> 
> Someone asked about going to the gym. She works only mid-day and goes to the gym before work. The guy works in the other direction from her office. He works regular hours and has the type of job where he cannot get away from work easily during the day. She doesn't really have any time that I can't account for when I think they could get together other than when I go to my conferences. But that is often enough.


Since your next conference is out few weeks, I wouldn't buy a hidden camera just yet. Given how often they talk, a voice recorder will get you the truth within a day. Then you'll decide whether you have enough, if you want to divorce her or catch them on tape and send it to her parents.

If you get another chance to look at her phone, search for apps that are compatible with it that store backups(text/image/call log/etc.) and send them to an email address.

Is she using a personal laptop? If you can get access to hers, a keylogger install is in order, quickly if you can. Have a look at companies such as webwatchernow.com, destopshark.com.


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## bff

I'm very nervous about installing something on her computer. She is really smart and observant. Doesn't anti-virus software catch these programs trying to send all of this logged information from the computer to an online account? I think I'm going to start with VARs and listen in the car and then in the bedroom when I am at the next conference. These other things - GPS and keyloggers - sound like phase 2.


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## Jellybeans

You should invite him over for one dinner sometime soon and watch their interaction. It should be very telling.

The thing is, she has no business calling him all day and hiding it. If there was nothing to hide, she wouldn't.


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## Jellybeans

Bff... is he married or does he have a girlfriend?


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## bff

He lives with his girlfriend and has for many years. His girlfriend has kids from a previous marriage, but he doesn't have any kids of his own.

The interactions between my wife and this guy are one of the reasons I'm so suspicious. They are very clearly very good friends. It wouldn't surprise me if anyone who didn't know the two of use and saw all three of us out together in a social setting would identify THEM as being married and me being the friend. This is hard for me to admit. It's embarrassing. But I think this is probably very obvious to all of the other people who know us and no one has said anything to me about it. I bet you've all heard this a million times - "It seem so obvious, now."


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## keko

bff said:


> I'm very nervous about installing something on her computer. She is really smart and observant. Doesn't anti-virus software catch these programs trying to send all of this logged information from the computer to an online account? I think I'm going to start with VARs and listen in the car and then in the bedroom when I am at the next conference. These other things - GPS and keyloggers - sound like phase 2.


Yes, most decent quality anti-virus programs do catch keyloggers. You will have to either delete or disbale it make use of the keylogger.

Edit: Is her phone under your name? Can you call the phone company and get the text messages? Or does sprint has an online account for you to view the messages?


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## snap

It is not uncommon for betrayed spouse to find out that everyone and their dog knew about the affair already. Don't share with anyone from your social circle before you gather evidence/confront - you never know.


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## Jellybeans

bff said:


> He lives with his girlfriend and has for many years. His girlfriend has kids from a previous marriage, but he doesn't have any kids of his own.
> 
> The interactions between my wife and this guy are one of the reasons I'm so suspicious. They are very clearly very good friends. It wouldn't surprise me if anyone who didn't know the two of use and saw all three of us out together in a social setting would identify THEM as being married and me being the friend.


That sucks. 

And your gut is probably spot on if that is the case. 

You may want to alert his girlfriend about it (after having full proof) or ask her what she thinks of their "friendship."


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## I'm The Prize

bff- you said you're scared to use a program because she has anti-virus programs that might catch it. How physically observant is she? There is a type of keylogger you can plug in between the keyboard and the computer. If you think you could get away with that without her noticing for a few days try that instead. 

I wouldn't suggest you invite the guy over to watch them together unless you are extremely self controlled. Even in the suspicion phase of my investigating my H's A I would have lost it in the same room with the OW. May not be a good idea. If you see something you don't like you may tip your hand. You can't afford to do that.


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## bff

keko said:


> Yes, most decent quality anti-virus programs do catch keyloggers. You will have to either delete or disbale it make use of the keylogger.


Ok, wow, I'm glad I asked! She would notice that immediately. And it is a work laptop. I probably could not even disable it. She works for a corporation that has all sorts of IT policies.

I've come to accept that she is deceiving me and that this is very, very wrong. I'm going to have to figure out how I deal with that. If I can't find any evidence of it being a physical relationship, I'm honestly not sure what I'll do. It's the kind of thing that I'll always wonder --- did I just not catch them??

If I do find evidence that it has become a sexual relationship, I am very certain of my next step - divorce. I deserve better than that.


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## snap

bff said:


> I've come to accept that she is deceiving me and that this is very, very wrong. I'm going to have to figure out how I deal with that. If I can't find any evidence of it being a physical relationship, I'm honestly not sure what I'll do.


With the kind of close, persistent communication they maintain, you'll learn something very soon. Probably within first few conversations recorded.


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## keko

Are there any other computers at home? Does she use them?


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## bff

There are other computers at home, but she stopped using the home computer a couple years ago when she got her laptop from work and her smartphone. She keeps her phone very close to her at all times. I read that this is a very common sign of hiding communications.


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## TBT

bff said:


> I've come to accept that she is deceiving me and that this is very, very wrong. I'm going to have to figure out how I deal with that. If I can't find any evidence of it being a physical relationship, I'm honestly not sure what I'll do. It's the kind of thing that I'll always wonder --- did I just not catch them??


You may have to figure out some kind of bluff.Sorry that you find yourself here.Hang tough.


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## bff

I can't thank you all enough for all the replies! I went from feeling completely isolated and carrying this all on my own to having my own little support group to bounce ideas off of. The really hard part of all this is ahead of me, but I already feel so much better talking about it.

Thank you.


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## I'm The Prize

When the phone never leaves their sight it's bad. My H wouldn't let me touch his, slept with it, and took it in the bathroom with him.

You're right, you do deserve better.


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## keko

bff said:


> There are other computers at home, but she stopped using the home computer a couple years ago when she got her laptop from work and her smartphone. She keeps her phone very close to her at all times. I read that this is a very common sign of hiding communications.


Can you somehow disable that laptop? Maybe remove the RAM cards?


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## badbane

Bff keylogger is not a big deal you just have to disable and enable the AV when you install the key logger. I doubt the AV would catch it after it is already installed. Plus even if it gets detected she probably won't think her non tech savvy H would be able to do something like this.


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## Caribbean Man

bff said:


> He lives with his girlfriend and has for many years. His girlfriend has kids from a previous marriage, but he doesn't have any kids of his own.
> 
> *The interactions between my wife and this guy are one of the reasons I'm so suspicious. They are very clearly very good friends. It wouldn't surprise me if anyone who didn't know the two of use and saw all three of us out together in a social setting would identify THEM as being married and me being the friend. This is hard for me to admit. It's embarrassing. * But I think this is probably very obvious to all of the other people who know us and no one has said anything to me about it. I bet you've all heard this a million times - "It seem so obvious, now."




^^^^^^^^
This right there is a VERY BAD SIGN.
It means that she thinks she has control over you and she has absolutely no respect for you.
The chance that it has gone physical is extremely high,and most likely IN YOUR BED,because sometimes you are not at home for extended periods.
Look out for the " crazies " or " blame shifting " from her when you get enough evidence and expose it.
She will BLAME YOU, but DO NOT ACCEPT ANY BLAME......


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## kenmoore14217

Take action, don't re-act! You will eventually be leaving her so do it now when it's sooooo much easier!


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## bff

I'll answer the second question first. I earn quite a bit of money and the other guy is completely broke - struggling to pay for things day to day. The sad thing is, that I have been propping HIM up, too, for a long time. I think she desperately wants kids and is quite content with things the way they are now. Nice car, nice house, comfortable lifestyle and a friend with benefits that she finds more attractive (and interesting - even if they are having sex, they are talking a lot, too). She makes decent money, but not enough to support herself and him, which she would end up doing. 

I will know for sure soon enough, but part of me really does think that this is an EA only and that she will fight me hard when confronted saying that he's just a good friend that she enjoys talking to. Trust me, I've recently read a lot about EA's and I do understand that they represent serious infidelity, and I will deal with it regardless of what I find about else is going on.

Regarding the behaviors, it is little things like when her diet coke is empty, she'll "steal" some from his glass instead of mine. I confronted her about that once, and she said that she was doing me a favor - leaving mine alone. Also, whenever we're walking anywhere in a group, they will end up next to each other. He will never just walk near me, he always waits for her. There are some other things, but I'm afraid they are specific enough that I don't want to mention them on a public forum until this whole thing is out in the open.


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## COguy

As mentioned, do not install anything on her work computer. BAD MOJO! you could go to jail for that.

I'm sorry man but it really looks like you're in the club. The nature of how they hide the calls and how she deletes messages from only him. I mean, if they're just friends why would she be deleting all his messages.

Just prepare yourself when you listen to the VAR, when you get the evidence your body will go into shock.

I will give you ONE piece of advice that you as a smart guy need to heed more than anything else.

RESIST WITH EVERY URGE IN YOUR BODY TO CONFRONT WHEN YOU FIND OUT. Go directly to a lawyer, and gather as much information and evidence as you can.

Many men make the mistake of reconciling without proper guidelines, it's a mistake. Trust me, from experience, your reconciliation should be extremely difficult for her. Make her sign a post-nup. And for the love of god don't have kids with her!!!


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## Caribbean Man

bff said:


> Regarding the behaviors,* it is little things like when her diet coke is empty, she'll "steal" some from his glass instead of mine. I confronted her about that once, and she said that she was doing me a favor - leaving mine alone. * Also, whenever we're walking anywhere in a group, they will end up next to each other. He will never just walk near me, he always waits for her. There are some other things, but I'm afraid they are specific enough that I don't want to mention them on a public forum until this whole thing is out in the open.



^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This [ In bold letters] my brother is evidence that they have already exchanged body fluids.
A woman is VERY PICKY with whom she " shares her personal stuff " with.

She is not " stealing a drink " from your cup. She is " *stealing it* "from him.
My wife does this to me ALL the time whenever we are in social gatherings. She ALWAYS takes a sip from my glass , or pick out the h'ordeuvres from MY plate. It means she is marking her territory.

My guess is that your wife is older than this guy?


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## I'm The Prize

bff- you could be right but my instinct tells me this is physical and that when you're not there they are using your home to meet. 

You are being used. I think I hate that most of all. Of course they lie, couldn't do it and tell the truth now could they. Yes, know they are with someone else hurts too. But knowing that they played you and used you was the absolute worst for me. It was just so purposely devious. 

Hope you get answers soon. Oh, get two VAR's for the car so that you can switch one out so that you can listen to one while taping with the other. You might get chit chat one day and something quite different the next.

Good luck.


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## Jellybeans

bff said:


> I will know for sure soon enough, *but part of me really does think that this is an EA only and that she will fight me hard when confronted saying that he's just a good friend that she enjoys talking to*.


Heh.

Sorry to burst your bubble, my friend, but she is going to say he's "just a friend" and get defensive NO MATTER WHAT YOU FIND. Sometimes even with absolute proof she may still deny/minimize.

Re: the EA..........well. Hate to break it to you again but if your sex life has tapered off so much, it's very possible she has had sex with him if she having an affair. 

Without proof, there is no way to tell but I am just prepping you for worst-case-scenario.


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## Jellybeans

VAR, dude. Get one. For her car. For your house.

Does she take her phone into the bathroom with her? Cause that is a major red flag.


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## Jellybeans

drkensington said:


> Speaking as a couples counselor, her behavior certainly appears suspicious. The questions is have you asked her directly? Are you prepared for how she may answer?


And as a couples counselor you should know that 99.9% of the time a spouse asks their cheating spouse if they are cheating, the cheating spouse always says "No." 

They will deny usually until there is hardcore proof and evenstill, some continue to deny because they seriously think you won't believe actual physical proof over their lying words.

But I do agree that an EA is just as bad, if not worse, as a PA. Especially for a woman.


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## bff

This is all really good advice. The last four posts hurt to read, but they are exactly what I need to hear. Thanks. 

I promise to keep this up to date. I hope others will eventually learn from this. I hope I do, too.


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## I'm The Prize

drkensington said:


> Speaking as a couples counselor, her behavior certainly appears suspicious. The questions is have you asked her directly? Are you prepared for how she may answer? Also, you seem more ok with the idea that she is likely having an emotional affair compared to a physical one. They are one in the same...with the same causes, repercussions, etc.


:lol: :rofl: :lol: :rofl: :lol:
I'm sorry...what exactly do you think she'd say if he "asked her directly"? 

"Yes we've been having an affair for a while now but I can't afford for you to divorce me because he is a lazy a** deadbeat. So, we can just continue with you being my doormat so that I can suck your bank account and your emotional life dry".

I don't think so! First she'd try to make him think he is crazy and then she'd take it so far underground that it would take mining equipment to find it. I know you're a professional and all but....no.


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## bff

wow, the replies are coming in too fast for me to keep up with.

The "marking her territory" thing seems so right on. I had a strong visceral reaction to that - must be why.

You are right, DK. I am thinking the EA is not as bad as a PA. In my mind (at this point - still processing it all) I think I could get past or over an EA, but if it got physical, that we definitely be the end for me. I'm going to need counseling one way or the other, soon. I don't want to go this road alone. Given the two really important people to me are involved, I won't have many other places to turn.


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## bff

Prize and DK, please don't let this thread turn into a debate about confronting her. I am only going to do that once I have solid evidence of the extent of this whole thing. That issue is settled.

I will put a VAR in her car ASAP and report back what I find. It is a couple weeks until I go out of town. Maybe I'll catch them making plans for that week.


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## bff

JB - call me a doormat, but it's been going on so long, I am willing to maintain the current situation so I can gather more evidence. Right or not, it will be much easier for me to walk away if it is indeed a PA and I have evidence. That may not be the right way to think about it, but it's where I am right now.

I know this isn't my fault, but I have absolutely been an enabler for a long time. I spend a lot of time with both of them together. And if I'm honest with myself, I've seen signs of this for a long time. I want evidence before I make such a drastic move.


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## I'm The Prize

Sorry bff, it's just that I was given the same advice, "just ask him". I did, he flipped, tried to have me think I was nuts, and then took in underground. Sad part is, at that point it was only an EA (with planning for PA). The confrontation just pushed it forward and underground. 

Trigger. Sorry for the over kill DK.


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## keko

When is the next time you two will be out with friends?


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## Almostrecovered

Find out the phone model and google the name with "retrieve deleted texts". You may find a way to get them


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## thunderstruck

COguy said:


> Just prepare yourself when you listen to the VAR, when you get the evidence your body will go into shock.
> 
> RESIST WITH EVERY URGE IN YOUR BODY TO CONFRONT WHEN YOU FIND OUT. Go directly to a lawyer, and gather as much information and evidence as you can.


bff - this is some great advice that you may have missed with all of these replies flying in. I didn't find an EA/PA, but I did read my W's words trashing me pretty hard to several people. It was hard not to confront her on that. The crap you may hear on the VAR...you may want to drive over and kill your "friend." Brace yourself each time you listen to the VAR, and keep your cool. Don't blow your one chance. 

Sorry you're going through this.


----------



## bff

JB - the $ differential is big - at least enough to be a motive. Thanks for the follow up messages. I'm NOT going to sweep this under the rug. I'm NOT going to hide my head in the sand. I am going to get a VAR immediately (already on order from Amazon - mailed to work on a biz CC so she can't track it) and see what I can find. The only way for me to keep my sanity now that I've seen the phone records is to think of this as a challenge - to gather evidence - to outsmart them both.

Thunderstruck - I did catch that when it was posted. I can just imagine that it will be very very difficult not to confront them both immediately, but I'm angry enough now to take a long view and not let my emotions get the best of me. I understand I only have the element of surprise on my side until I say something, so I'll do all that I need to do before I say something.


----------



## jh52

Not sure if this idea was brought up earlier -- but can you hire a PI when you leave in a couple off weeks.

It can get expensive -- but you will have concrete proof if something is going on !!


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## keko

You can also try walmart and bestbuy for another VAR while you wait for the other one to arrive.


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## MattMatt

keko said:


> Can you somehow disable that laptop? Maybe remove the RAM cards?


On a company laptop? She'd just take it to be fixed, and they'd ID tampering right away.


----------



## jh52

MattMatt said:


> On a company laptop? She'd just take it to be fixed, and they'd ID tampering right away.


Agree -- stay away from the company laptop!!


----------



## MattMatt

jh52 said:


> Agree -- stay away from the company laptop!!


Might be advantageous. Running an affair in company time on company laptop? HR might have a policy...


----------



## keko

MattMatt said:


> On a company laptop? She'd just take it to be fixed, and they'd ID tampering right away.


He'll do it after she comes home from work, and puts it back in before she leaves the next day? I doubt they'll be able to determine screws that hold the back cover have been tampered with.

The point is to get her to use another computer with a keylogger since he has no access to anything written so far.


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## spudster

Plan to be gone one Saturday. Tell your wife about a week before that on that day you will be out all day on some pretense. Plant a hidden video camera in the bedroom and a voice activated recorder in the house somewhere where she usuall talks on the phone. 

Trap her and him either doing the deed or talking about it.


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## BrockLanders

Is the laptop physically locked or is it just locked by password? Do you know what they would use in order to communicate with each other (Skype, AIM, etc). You might not even need a keylogger to find what you need. If you need some help, post in the gathering evidence thread:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...one-interested-evidence-gathering-thread.html


----------



## DailyGrind

thunderstruck said:


> bff - this is some great advice that you may have missed with all of these replies flying in. I didn't find an EA/PA, but I did read my W's words trashing me pretty hard to several people. It was hard not to confront her on that. The crap you may hear on the VAR...you may want to drive over and kill your "friend." Brace yourself each time you listen to the VAR, and keep your cool. Don't blow your one chance.
> 
> Sorry you're going through this.


This!!! I put a VAR in my wife's car. When i started listening to it, I didn't have to even hear her words, to put me over the top. I'd been monitoring her cell records and knew she was 't talking on HER phone....so any words on the VAR just HAD to be a burner phone. As soon as I started hearing her talking, I completely lost it!!! I just couldn't control myself. I had EVERY intention of gathering more evidence....and blew it right there. It is easy to SAY you won't react. You have to steel yourself for the absolute WORST....and DON'T react. Easier said than done.

Good luck. Oh...and don't wait for Amazon delivery....go to Walmart tonight!


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## lovelygirl

bff said:


> Also, whenever we're walking anywhere in a group, they will end up next to each other. He will never just walk near me, he always waits for her.


Wow! Blatant disrespect!
They don't even bother/care to be discreet about it anymore!


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## COguy

BFF I'm going to give you some advice fresh from a guy who had to hire PI's, do VARs, hire lawyers and what not.

I"m not a lawyer, just an intelligent guy who according to his lawyer is, "the most proactive mother f*cker I've ever met."

First, I will repeat again, your body will go into literal physical shock when you find the evidence. You can not control this reaction, you will want to die. You will probably start shaking and you will be extremely angry and hurt. Be prepared for this, in that I mean don't listen to this sh*t upstairs 5 minutes before she comes home, or god forbid, at work like I did. Go to a hotel or friends house or park or somewhere secluded where you can give yourselves a solid 30-60 minutes to lose your sh*t.

Second, you need to find the divorce laws in your state. In many states now, adultery has absolutely no bearing in the divorce. In these states, should you live in one, spending money on PI's, VARs, and what not is a complete waste of time and money. If you live in a no-fault state, after speaking with a lawyer about the situation to verify what I'm going to say, get the evidence you need to feel good about ditching her ass, and then stop.

The other thing I learned, which I'm surprised no one on TAM mentioned, is that it is a felony and federal offense to audio record a conversation you are not a part of. I'm not saying don't do it, I'm just saying you don't want to play it for her. Don't share it with your friends, don't tell anyone you heard it. You can put a nanny cam in your house with no audio, but using a VAR is a crime. Just want you to know that up front so you can be smart about it.

As far as VARs go, I got mine at Walmart and it worked great. $50 and they had a few, I would spend the money here on this stuff and just go nuts. Stash one everywhere. Why? Because a VAR costs $50, and for $200 you can get absolute piece of mind anywhere she could be.

If you live in a no fault state and your lawyer says it won't matter in the divorce, then don't bother with a PI. It's effing expensive, like a few thousand for a retainer. For the money you'll spend you can put spy cameras all over the house (with no audio), GPS devices, etc. for a fraction of the cost and even better proof (actual sex).

Hell even if you live in an at fault state, when you're pissing away a few thousand to prove adultery, spend the few hundred to put nanny cams everywhere.

Just remember, you can't use the VAR stuff in court, and it is a crime, so don't rely on it as your evidence of the affair if you need it. You can confront her that you know what's going on and record the conversation where she admits it, but you definitely don't want to do that without talking to a lawyer first.

Good luck, glad you're not in denial. And also don't expect to make a decision on reconciliation up front either. Because you may feel different about it after you find out. Just make sure whatever decision you make you take things slow, and remember that you can change your mind either way throughout the process (assuming she doesn't keep whoring around).


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## bff

Good information, COguy. Thanks for taking the time to write it all out. I do live in a no fault state, so having evidence is just for me to make a decision I'm comfortable with. I think my state is also one with recording laws, so I'd need to be careful it I went this route. Last thing I need is to become the one who gets punished in all of this. Maybe cameras that would see if his car shows up in my driveway while I'm gone? I've already got rock solid evidence of all the phone calls...

I've already made peace with the fact that I will lose a lot of what I've worked so hard for over the years I've been with her. But, I've also made peace with the fact that I'd rather start over with nothing than continue to live a life where I'm being taken advantage of in this way.


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## COguy

Hire a shark lawyer, get his advice before you confront. In some cases if you can prove infidelity, even in a no fault state, you can still be awarded legal fees, punitive damages, or sue for alienation of affection. Listen to your lawyer.


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## MattMatt

keko said:


> He'll do it after she comes home from work, and puts it back in before she leaves the next day? I doubt they'll be able to determine screws that hold the back cover have been tampered with.
> 
> The point is to get her to use another computer with a keylogger since he has no access to anything written so far.


Some laptops have to be opened on special jigs, or have security tags. It ain't worth the risk.


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## workindad

bff, your friend is not a friend. Not even close. Sorry to hear of your story, but you are on the right path.

My XWW admitted to nothing that I didn't have solid proof of. Get your proof, sounds like it will not take long. 

If you are not comfortable with recording voice ( I didn't give a rip and only used it for my own knowledge not in court), use a camera to see who is visiting your house when you are not there. Get one that plugs in and looks like something else- clock, speaker, etc. Spend a little time on google and you'll find them. Buy one that is motion activated so you are not looking at hours of nothing. 

Good luck
WD


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## Entropy3000

bff said:


> My story probably starts like a lot of others. The signs have been there for a long time but I chose to ignore them because I'm confrontation averse and was in denial. But, I'm now sure my wife and my best friend have been having a secret relationship - no evidence (yet) of anything physical - for several years.
> 
> We spend a lot of time together (wife, friend, me) with groups of friends, so it's always been obvious to me that they are close with each other. I guess I never really understood how close. I won't go into all the details of the things that tipped me off, but I got that "6th sense" that they were talking with each other when I wasn't around.
> 
> After suspicion got the best of me, I finally took the time to dig around and found her cell phone bills. She and my friend have been talking about 5-6 times PER DAY for at least the last year. That's all the phone bills I was able to find. Who knows how long it has been going on. I see lots of calls that correspond with the time she's commuting to work and when she's at lunch. I looked at some times when I called her, and I was able to see that I interrupted her call with him, then as soon as she and I were off the phone, she called him right back. Neither of them will ever call the other when I'm present, so they are clearly concealing their conversations from me.
> 
> My job takes me to conferences all over the country for a week at a time once or twice a month, and I can see that when I've been out of town, many of the calls are later in the evening. Not sure if that is evidence that he's NOT coming over?? Wishful thinking, perhaps.
> 
> So now I'm not sure what to do. I think the first thing I have to do for my own sanity if figure out if there's a physical part to this relationship. How do I do that? Hidden camera? Hire a PI? I'm not sure I could afford that.
> 
> Of course, I'm already thinking ahead to what I'll do whether I do or do not find any evidence of physical contact. This guy is (was?) my best friend. Between her and him, they are pretty much my whole world. We run in the same social circles, so cutting them off would be a big mess.
> 
> edited to add: BTW, all the other normal signs of an affair exist, too. Secretive with phone, spending more time online, sex trailed off considerably, seems more distant and so on and so on.
> 
> Any thoughts on where I should go from here?


Sorry, my first thought is why you waited so long to check into this.

You AND your wife need to go full no contact with this guy immediatley .... and forever. You have had plenty of evidence of this for a long time. BUT you did not do anything about this and let this happen over time. I am not blaming you but you made them feel you were not going to interfere.

I understand why you want to gather evidence first because catching this early is no longer an option. So go ahead and get more evidence. I guess she figures she will get half of everything anyway and you friend will benefit further.


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## OldWolf57

Leave the laptop alone. that is company property. LEAVE IT ALONE!!! Go to Best Buy or Radio Shack for the VAR. Don't worry about getting into trouble for recording. The car is marriage property, so is the home. You can rcord on your own property. No DA would prosecute that. I can guarentee some know they are hooking up. So don't worry about friends. the ones who don't will thank you for outing them for the sleazy ppl they are. My Man, it's physical, and has been for a Longggggggg time. So don't even pretent anymore. Prepare yourself for that as best as you can, and just be grateful if it's not.

Leave the laptop alone. Go to the store and buy the VAR NOW, there is no reason you have to be in limbo waitng for a slipup. Remember heavy duty velcro.


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## aug

bff said:


> We are in between IVF treatments right now and there is no risk of her initiating sex with me so I guess there is a silver lining there. If she gets pregnant right now, I will know on thing for sure. It is not mine.



Sorry, havent read the whole thread but...

You should stop the IVF treatments *now *till you have all this turmoil under control. If she gets pregnant now, you wont know if the baby is from the IVF or from her boyfriend, your best friend.


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## spudster

Do not get this woman pregnant!


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## Shaggy

While waiting for the var, maybe go to bestbuy and pickoneup tonight.

Also make your plan on what you will do if your worst fear plays out.

1. Immediately isolate your money,may check etc.
2. Cancel joint credit


Instead of confronting him and her, tell his gf and expose to family. You want to disrupt her support network so she is isolated and can't hide behind lies with others.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aug

Dont have a baby when your marriage is not in a happy place.


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## BrockLanders

aug said:


> Sorry, havent read the whole thread but...
> 
> You should stop the IVF treatments *now *till you have all this turmoil under control. If she gets pregnant now, you wont know if the baby is from the IVF or from her boyfriend, your best friend.


This is a bit personal but its germaine to the conversation: is it your sperm or her eggs? My wife was a medical tech at a fertility doctor's practice. She described all kinds of scenarios, like the mother was HIV± and the husband had no idea and because of HIPPA laws, he could not be told. You also wouldnt believe the impossible blood types between father and child. They cannot say anything, under law. Don't stick your d*ck in crazy, bro.


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## BrockLanders

JB100 said:


> BrockLanders,
> 
> What do you mean by impossible blood types? Do you mean that the child is not really the father's child based on blood but the nurses/doctors are not allowed to divulge that information?


Exactly. Like a+ b=o-

The nurses will just giggle in silence.


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## bff

It's hard to get much more personal than what I've already divulged. ;-)

It's neither. Good quality embryos each of the first few IVF attempts. They just won't take once put inside her. Doctors are as befuddled as we are. It makes doing another round of IVF tempting. But, that's off topic at this point. I have a hard time imagining I have another IVF round in my future with her.

Bought a VAR locally. The wheels are in motion.


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## bff

Ah - got your point now on the blood type, etc. That's all behind us, but that is funny (ok, it's not funny, but given what I'm going through right now, I do have to laugh to keep myself sane.)


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## keko

bff said:


> Bought a VAR locally. The wheels are in motion.


Before you place it in her car, try it out yourself. Make sure it's audio level is set to record low noises, doesn't make a noise or turn on a light when its recording. Basically anything which will give away its location.


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## BrockLanders

bff said:


> It's hard to get much more personal than what I've already divulged. ;-)
> 
> It's neither. Good quality embryos each of the first few IVF attempts. They just won't take once put inside her. Doctors are as befuddled as we are. It makes doing another round of IVF tempting. But, that's off topic at this point. I have a hard time imagining I have another IVF round in my future with her.
> 
> Bought a VAR locally. The wheels are in motion.


I actually know a fair bit about this stuff. So the problem is implantation. Many times abortions form scar tissue that affects implantation. Has she had many (covert) abortions? Do you go to dr visits and hear everything?


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## bff

BL - I go to all the visits and have been in the room for the ultrasounds, etc. We talked specifically about the scar tissue from a prior ended pregnancy with the doctor. The doctors don't believe that's the issue. I'm going to put that all on the back burner for now, though.

Tried out VAR for sensitivity level. Seems good. Don't know how road noise will affect it.


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## BrockLanders

bff said:


> BL - I go to all the visits and have been in the room for the ultrasounds, etc. We talked specifically about the scar tissue from a prior ended pregnancy with the doctor. The doctors don't believe that's the issue. I'm going to put that all on the back burner for now, though.
> 
> Tried out VAR for sensitivity level. Seems good. Don't know how road noise will affect it.



K, you're well informed and that's good. I just wanted to make sure you were educated on all the bases. No malice intended, truthfully.

That being said I hope you find nada.


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## the guy

There's software out there that can clean it up.


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## bff

No worries, BL. I appreciate ALL the help and advice I'm getting here. If I ever sound defensive, I apologize. I've got a lot to process right now, so I'm not on my best behavior!

Good to know, guy. May ask for some leads on that if background noise is a problem.


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## COguy

I found it's best to use a good sound editing software to view the recordings. Road noise, fan noise, engine noise, TV, radio, etc. It all has a fairly consistent sound pattern. When you load it into a program with a volume band you can see spikes and tell right away when conversations happened. I used Sound Forge but there's probably free software out there that does the same thing.


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## OldWolf57

b, you are one of the few, that accept, and go proactive. GOOD WORK. DAMN GOOD work. Your wait shouldn't be long. These tow have gotten so comfortable, that they don't even see the looks they probably gets, when you are out.

But do this for yourself, try to be cool when you confirm, until you have seen a lawyer and got the papers ready. Give them to her and pack her sh*t. Tell her you will follow with what won't fit in her car over to om house. Be ready, she is going to go 1or 2 ways, bat sh*t crazy, or all remorseful. Forget that crap. You almost hinted, when you mentioned the coke thing. But she is sure she gaslighted you. You noticed I said when you confirm. you will.


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## aug

Start your own separate banking accounts. Put your earning into your own account.

Remove yourself from all joint loans and debts that you can.

Look into removing her as beneficiary from your life insurance, retirement plan, etc...

Protect your money and your assets now.


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## moxy

Put a VAR in the car and bedroom and a hidden camera in the bedroom when you go out of town. If there is a physical affair, you might find out this way. I'm sorry to hear of your predicament. Hang in there.


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## COguy

aug said:


> Start your own separate banking accounts. Put your earning into your own account.
> 
> Remove yourself from all joint loans and debts that you can.
> 
> Look into removing her as beneficiary from your life insurance, retirement plan, etc...
> 
> Protect your money and your assets now.


I know this sounds like overkill but believe me, women do this stuff. My wife's lawyer told her to wipe out my bank account. That was going to be used to pay OUR bills, mortgage, credit card payments, etc.

If I hadn't pulled the money out, I would have been effed. Some women pull the money out BEFORE their husbands even know something is wrong. Do your due diligence up front.


----------



## Ansley

People never cease to amaze me. The wife and "friend" have got the balls of a burglar. I dont know about the laws in your state but here if the income is substancially different (as you said your's and her's are) you could wind up paying alimony to her--Yikes! I dont see anything wrong with getting all the evidence you can, talking to a cut throat lawyer and going from there. Some of these dirt bags dont even deserve the energy to be confronted. Get what you need to get all question out of your mind and have her served at work. 

What is your relationship like with her parents & siblings? I bet they will be real proud when all of this comes out. 

Im proud of you man! Most people waller in it and say "_what should I do_" and "_now they've done this_" for months with out taking action. You are a smart dude. Dont ever call yourself a doormat again. 

BTW-totally agree with COguy about getting your money. You have footed the bill way to long. 

The only reason she would have to talk to this fool 5-6 times a day for the last year and a half is if they are planning some elaborate, excessive, blow out birthday party for you!


----------



## Ansley

COguy said:


> I know this sounds like overkill but believe me, women do this stuff. My wife's lawyer told her to wipe out my bank account. That was going to be used to pay OUR bills, mortgage, credit card payments, etc.
> 
> If I hadn't pulled the money out, I would have been effed. Some women pull the money out BEFORE their husbands even know something is wrong. Do your due diligence up front.


I wouldn't be shocked if she hasn't been skimmng from the top for awhile and has it stashed somewhere. Wouldn't suprise me either if she isn't helping the friend financially to some extent.


----------



## Caribbean Man

bff said:


> Good information, COguy. Thanks for taking the time to write it all out. I do live in a no fault state, so having evidence is just for me to make a decision I'm comfortable with. I think my state is also one with recording laws, so I'd need to be careful it I went this route. Last thing I need is to become the one who gets punished in all of this. Maybe cameras that would see if his car shows up in my driveway while I'm gone? I've already got rock solid evidence of all the phone calls...
> 
> *I've already made peace with the fact that I will lose a lot of what I've worked so hard for over the years I've been with her. But, I've also made peace with the fact that I'd rather start over with nothing than continue to live a life where I'm being taken advantage of in this way.*



:iagree:

It's just not worth it to throw away your future if she's at fault.
Let this experience , whichever way it turns out , make you stronger.


----------



## costa200

bff said:


> *Regarding the behaviors, it is little things like when her diet coke is empty, she'll "steal" some from his glass instead of mine. I confronted her about that once, and she said that she was doing me a favor - leaving mine alone.* Also, whenever we're walking anywhere in a group, they will end up next to each other. He will never just walk near me, he always waits for her. There are some other things, but I'm afraid they are specific enough that I don't want to mention them on a public forum until this whole thing is out in the open.


Yikes... Just arriving late at this thread but this caught my attention. If my partner did that i would be displaying all shades of furious red... WTF?! I don't want to end up trading spit with some dude. This level of physical comfort is highly suspicious. 

Oh and i saw that apparently some guys are failing to point out that not all keyloggers are treated the same by anti-virus software. If you get one of those keyloggers designed for parental control the anti-virus will probably not report it. Keyloggers and anti-virus conflict often because people are getting them from shady origins.

But even a shady keylogger can be used if you just give yourself the trouble of adding the keylogger to the exception list of the anti-virus. Goes like this:

1- Disable AV real-time protection
2- Install keylogger
3- Add Keylogger to exception list (ways to do it differ according to vendor)
4- Reactivate AV real-time protection
5- Type something in and check if the keylogger is working
6- Restart the computer re-check if keylogger is still working and there was no AV warning.

Some keyloggers will allow you to send report to a choosen email adress and so, if there is a firewall installed you need to add it to the firewall access safe applications list too, if you want to use this functionality.


----------



## Ansley

costa200 said:


> _Some keyloggers will allow you to send report to a choosen email adress and so, if there is a firewall installed you need to add it to the firewall access safe applications list too, if you want to use this functionality_.



I dont think he should mess with the company owned laptop. I only say that because it happened to a woman I used to work with. Her boyfriend was suspicious and installed "something" on her laptop. IT doing routine maintenence found it and she lost her job for tampering with company equiptment. Her last pay check was minus the cost of the laptop. Now that I think about it...she was cheating on him. hmmmm maybe do it.


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## anonymouskitty

Mate, if you find surveillance tedious or if you can't catch anything on the VAR, I'd schedule an impromptu out of town conference for two maybe three days and hire a good PI, I don't think it would hurt you financially and those guys are pretty efficient and the conclusions are backed by irrefutable proof. Think about it.

Oh and get yourself tested for STDs. Thats kind of proof right there if its positive(hopefully it isn't) eh?


----------



## happyman64

BFF

Patience. That is all I can add.

You will find your answers soon. And I hope you find nothing but we are rarely surprised when you do.

Good Luck

HM64


----------



## Davelli0331

Just want to clear up some confusion I'm seeing on this thread regarding the keylogger on work laptop issue. I work in IT, so let me provide some insight:

- If his W's laptop contains any information related to her business or her job (which it surely does), installing keylogger software could be misconstrued as corporate espionage, since some or all of that information might be considered intellectual property

- If his W has ever had to place an order on her laptop for a business-related purchase using a company-issued credit card, installing keylogger software could be misconstrued as identity theft, not to mention a security breach of credit card or purchasing information

- If his W has client or customer information on her laptop, installing a keylogger on her laptop would be considered a security breach of clients' privacy

Not all companies would look at it so severely, but I wouldn't take that chance. So IOW *do not install a keylogger on your wife's personal computer. It could get both of you into trouble.*


----------



## BrockLanders

costa200 said:


> Yikes... Just arriving late at this thread but this caught my attention. If my partner did that i would be displaying all shades of furious red... WTF?! I don't want to end up trading spit with some dude. This level of physical comfort is highly suspicious.
> 
> Oh and i saw that apparently some guys are failing to point out that not all keyloggers are treated the same by anti-virus software. If you get one of those keyloggers designed for parental control the anti-virus will probably not report it. Keyloggers and anti-virus conflict often because people are getting them from shady origins.
> 
> But even a shady keylogger can be used if you just give yourself the trouble of adding the keylogger to the exception list of the anti-virus. Goes like this:
> 
> 1- Disable AV real-time protection
> 2- Install keylogger
> 3- Add Keylogger to exception list (ways to do it differ according to vendor)
> 4- Reactivate AV real-time protection
> 5- Type something in and check if the keylogger is working
> 6- Restart the computer re-check if keylogger is still working and there was no AV warning.
> 
> Some keyloggers will allow you to send report to a choosen email adress and so, if there is a firewall installed you need to add it to the firewall access safe applications list too, if you want to use this functionality.



This is awful advice. There's an extremely good chance the keystroke logger will be found. I found one on my bosses computer once. His wife had installed it (baselessly as well). I'm the IT manager of a large accounting firm. Do you realize that if she had malicious intents and gained financial information from clients how ruinous it would have been? If the OP's wife is doing anything that involves having clients SSNs or medical information you're opening yourself to both prosecution and lawsuits. There are many other ways to get information from her machine without altering it any way. You can use cookie injection/session hijacking to get into someone's email. You can use a live cd in order to get access to files on the computer without needing a password. These methods aren't legal either, but they're not reckless and they almost certainly won't be discovered.

Imagine he installed a keystroke logger, found that his wife was not having an affair and then she got fired from her job?


----------



## bff

Thanks to everyone contributing here, especially on the key logging. I am NOT going to go that route. There's way too much risk, and I believe that I'll get all the evidence I need through other less risky means.

I'll keep the thread updated as I learn more.


----------



## Almostrecovered

with the amount of talking a day they do you probably wont have to investigate very long with VAR's, get them yet?


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## iheartlife

Agreed, I give VARs only a day or two to turn up the truth.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

Good hunting.

In the meantime really prepare how you will respond to your worst fears. Like others have said don't listen at home or just before she returns. Maybe have a bag packed and go on a sudden overnight trip to avoid her until you get your game face back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife

Shaggy said:


> Good hunting.
> 
> In the meantime really prepare how you will respond to your worst fears. Like others have said don't listen at home or just before she returns. Maybe have a bag packed and go on a sudden overnight trip to avoid her until you get your game face back.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is to avoid what well over 90% of people do, confront from a position of strong emotion. The WS might be blindsided, but experienced liars that they are, they will quickly come up with something to snow you. Because you love them, you'll believe what they say, although it's a crock of sh*t. Then they take it deeper underground, and now you get to hang out in ignorance or false R. Been there, done that...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ansley

I'm worried-he hasn't posted today
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

uhhh...posted at 1:13pm eastern time today, just a few posts above yours


----------



## costa200

BrockLanders said:


> This is awful advice. There's an extremely good chance the keystroke logger will be found. I found one on my bosses computer once. His wife had installed it (baselessly as well). I'm the IT manager of a large accounting firm. Do you realize that if she had malicious intents and gained financial information from clients how ruinous it would have been? If the OP's wife is doing anything that involves having clients SSNs or medical information you're opening yourself to both prosecution and lawsuits. There are many other ways to get information from her machine without altering it any way. You can use cookie injection/session hijacking to get into someone's email. You can use a live cd in order to get access to files on the computer without needing a password. These methods aren't legal either, but they're not reckless and they almost certainly won't be discovered.
> 
> Imagine he installed a keystroke logger, found that his wife was not having an affair and then she got fired from her job?


This was a generic way to do it. Of course, being a company computer he should not install it there. Just to say that is can be done even with an AV active.

Anyway i really doubt that a guy who doesn't know who to get around an AV to install a pitiful keylogger will do much of session hijacking or manage to get stuff with a linux boot CD for example.


----------



## Ansley

Almostrecovered said:


> uhhh...posted at 1:13pm eastern time today, just a few posts above yours


Stupid phone-i didn't see it
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

get a smartphone instead!!


----------



## TBT

and cue rimshot!


----------



## Almostrecovered

thank you, thank you

I will be here all week, try the veal


----------



## OldWolf57

don't like the way they raise the calves for veal AR.


----------



## bff

Still here. Still committed to the path. Trying to not let this consume me all day - I don't want my job to suffer the way my personal life is. In the process of gathering evidence. Travel, soon, too, so I'll have my answers soon. Be patient.

I've found it cathartic to list out the things that are wrong with what she has done, even if there is no PA. I am hoping this will help prepare me to control my emotions when I do find additional evidence, and like everyone here, I believe I will.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## OldWolf57

Start making a list of the things you will have to do before confronting. etc,etc, removing half the money, cancel CC, removing important docs of site, deciding who leaves and myrid others.

I really appreciate how you are not in denial, and taking the bull by the horns.


----------



## Ansley

Almostrecovered said:


> get a smartphone instead!!


Sadly I do have one!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

BFF

Patience. Stay focused. And prepare for the worst. The situation might not be as bad as you think.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jason439

By the sounds of things you will have the proof you need very soon. Some very good advice on this thread.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

OldWolf57 said:


> Start making a list of the things you will have to do before confronting. etc,etc, removing half the money, cancel CC, removing important docs of site, deciding who leaves and myrid others.
> 
> *I really appreciate how you are not in denial, and taking the bull by the horns.*


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

But he was tooo late for this. I hope If he done this long ago ............


----------



## bff

Quick update - tried to record yesterday but sensitivity was to low. I could see on the online phone records that they had a 30 minute conversation in the afternoon before I got home, but I wasn't able to capture it. Changed the sensitivity and relocated recorder for today. I'll let you know what I get.

Definitely haven't changed their routine - 5 calls yesterday.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Guess nobody mentioned to test it first


----------



## thunderstruck

OldWolf57 said:


> Start making a list of the things you will have to do before confronting. etc,etc, removing half the money, cancel CC, removing important docs of site, deciding who leaves and myrid others.


There's a good list for this over at dadsdivorce.com. Whether you have kids or not, it might be good to look at it...and start working it.


----------



## warlock07

Test the location again and keep gathering for sometime. You can also try looking into nannycams


----------



## happyman64

Patience BFF.

Get the recordings then you will know what you are dealing with.

Hm64


----------



## lovelygirl

JB100 said:


> I actually don't even think your wife and your best friend are friends with benefits, I think they are in love...


I'm afraid so.
The way they care and look up to each other speaks volumes about a possible love.

Sounds like you are her brother and your sister is falling in love...


----------



## sandc

The guy's got it bad enough without our speculation. Just give him time to record something solid.


----------



## BrockLanders

JB100 said:


> Poor guy is going to get his heart broken by two people close to him. I am sorry bff but 5 phone calls per day? one call the lasts 30 minutes?
> 
> I actually don't even think your wife and your best friend are friends with benefits, I think they are in love...


I couldn't imagine talking to anyone 30 minutes every single day.


----------



## jh52

bff said:


> Quick update - tried to record yesterday but sensitivity was to low.  I could see on the online phone records that they had a 30 minute conversation in the afternoon before I got home, but I wasn't able to capture it. Changed the sensitivity and relocated recorder for today. I'll let you know what I get.
> 
> Definitely haven't changed their routine - 5 calls yesterday.


Just curious -- how many times did she call you yesterday ?


----------



## Acabado

Just sending courage to keep sweeming a little more. Hang though, man.


----------



## piggyoink

BrockLanders said:


> I couldn't imagine talking to anyone 30 minutes every single day.


in Vancouver or Toronto cell phone prices start at $25/mo for unlimited local calls at any time of the day


----------



## BrockLanders

piggyoink said:


> in Vancouver or Toronto cell phone prices start at $25/mo for unlimited local calls at any time of the day


It has nothing to do with the cost, it's that I wouldn't have anywhere near 30 minutes of content to speak of.


----------



## Almostrecovered

I'm sure 5 minutes of it is spent playfully fighting over who has to hang up first


----------



## BrockLanders

JB100 said:


> EXACTLY! 30 minute phone calls...5 to 6 times a day?
> 
> What in the hell can they talk about if they are not in love?


Maybe they're exchanging recipes.


----------



## Almostrecovered

why on earth are you getting hung up on cell service pricing?


----------



## piggyoink

Almostrecovered said:


> why on earth are you getting hung up on cell service pricing?


Well, someone's saying that there's not much reason to talk for 30 minutes a day


----------



## lovelygirl

It doesn't matter how much it costs.
Who cares about the bill when there's passion and intensity between two people?


----------



## Almostrecovered

piggyoink said:


> Well, someone's saying that there's not much reason to talk for 30 minutes a day



so what, they could be selling poop for only 12 turds a dollar and I still wouldn't find that a reason to buy it- they're talking so much because it's likely that they are having an affair


----------



## BrockLanders

LOL

What's up with the OCD attention to pricing, as if were an issue. I'm sure the OP is mainly motivated to end the affair to save money on his monthly cell phone costs.


----------



## bff

Almostrecovered said:


> I'm sure 5 minutes of it is spent playfully fighting over who has to hang up first


Even as my life (as I know it today) is crumbling around me, I nearly spit out my coffee laughing at this!! 

W and I call each other less than twice a day. The sprint top 10 numbers reports for each of the last 12 months are a very clear scorecard on who she likes to spend her time talking to. It ranges from 3 to 1 to about 10 to 1 the number of minutes talking to him versus me. 

Patience everyone. This will get ugly, but one way or another, in the long run, it's going to end well FOR ME.


----------



## piggyoink

lovelygirl said:


> It doesn't matter how much it costs.
> Who cares about the bill when there's passion and intensity between two people?


It matters in Canada because people there do like talking on the phone, and it doesn't have to be related to business or having extramarital talks.

There's even a prepaid product targetted to people with bad credit - $40 a month for 2000 anytime minutes from a top tier company. And why is it 2000 and not unlimited? because the company wants to push people onto their $35/mo postpaid product with UNLIMITED airtime, which requires a credit check.

Have you tried going outdoors or socializing? then you'd find reasons to talk on the phone

I've noticed that people in Canada even in a relationship do get upset if you call them and burn up their minutes which in most cases are $0.30 a minute unless on an unlimited plan.


----------



## Almostrecovered

do they still pay for internet by the minute in Canada?


----------



## piggyoink

Almostrecovered said:


> do they still pay for internet by the minute in Canada?


No they do not. Dialup when it was common cost either $25/mo or around $2 an hour. Internet from the equivalent of comcast(NOT fibre) costs $45/mo for 10m speeds, $80/mo for 100m , and $110/mo for 250m

Maybe its a culture thing, but people there don't like burning up money talking to any person on the phone, including if they are married or otherwise in a relationship.


----------



## Almostrecovered

okay, I was havin a bit of fun with you but you seriously need to stop with the hijack, when people cheat they don't care about what harm they bring to their spouses let alone a cell phone bill, now stop it


----------



## bff

Will I lose the house and cars? I have no idea. I'd like to believe that at most I'd lose the house, everything in it, one [half] of the cars, half of all of our savings, and half of my income for the next several years. Am I being naive? Without kids involved, how could I lose more than that? I don't know anything about this stuff, though. I'm planning to take everyone's advice and lawyer up before any sort of confrontation, though. I have a close friend who is an excellent attorney that I'll talk to as soon as I know the extent of the A. Soon.


----------



## BrockLanders

piggyoink said:


> No they do not. Dialup when it was common cost either $25/mo or around $2 an hour. Internet from the equivalent of comcast(NOT fibre) costs $45/mo for 10m speeds, $80/mo for 100m , and $110/mo for 250m
> 
> Maybe its a culture thing, but people there don't like burning up money talking to any person on the phone, including if they are married or otherwise in a relationship.


I've never really noticed much of a cultural difference between Canadians and Americans. Any time I've been in Canada it always felt like I was in the USA's northern suburbs.


----------



## lovelygirl

What kind of man is your friend when he's able to do this to his close mate?
Doesn't your wife realize this? 

Oh well. Maybe they are made for each other. She's betraying her husband and he's betraying his best friend.
Someday they might end up betraying each other. A good match!


----------



## jh52

bff said:


> Will I lose the house and cars? I have no idea. I'd like to believe that at most I'd lose the house, everything in it, one [half] of the cars, half of all of our savings, and half of my income for the next several years. Am I being naive? Without kids involved, how could I lose more than that? I don't know anything about this stuff, though. I'm planning to take everyone's advice and lawyer up before any sort of confrontation, though. I have a close friend who is an excellent attorney that I'll talk to as soon as I know the extent of the A. Soon.


You sound like you are in total control and expect the worst. Just remember to once you find out -- just take some time to clear you head, contact lawyer, etc.......

DO NOT LOSE IT -- Easier said then done.


----------



## Ansley

bff said:


> Will I lose the house and cars? I have no idea. I'd like to believe that at most I'd lose the house, everything in it, one [half] of the cars, half of all of our savings, and half of my income for the next several years. Am I being naive? Without kids involved, how could I lose more than that? I don't know anything about this stuff, though. I'm planning to take everyone's advice and lawyer up before any sort of confrontation, though. I have a close friend who is an excellent attorney that I'll talk to as soon as I know the extent of the A. Soon.


Dont know what state you are in. I just looked it up in mine and even with children and 10 years in you wouldnt lose as much as you are projecting. 

You never answered my question about your wifes family? Sometimes the entire threat of "I will tell everyone what you did" makes them not so greedy when divorce time comes. 

Glad you are going to a lawyer. I cant tell you how awesome it is the way you are going forward with this and keeping your cool.


----------



## Ansley

Almostrecovered said:


> okay, I was havin a bit of fun with you but you seriously need to stop with the hijack, when people cheat they don't care about what harm they bring to their spouses let alone a cell phone bill, now stop it


thank you for this--i found the posts about cell phone coverage to be very sarcastic and insensitive.


----------



## AngryandUsed

Bff,

Take care.

I understand that you are determined to resolve the issue on hand and put yourself first. A good sign, and a rarity among the people come to post at TAM.

Take care, again.
AU


----------



## BrockLanders

bff said:


> Will I lose the house and cars? I have no idea. I'd like to believe that at most I'd lose the house, everything in it, one [half] of the cars, half of all of our savings, and half of my income for the next several years. Am I being naive? Without kids involved, how could I lose more than that? I don't know anything about this stuff, though. I'm planning to take everyone's advice and lawyer up before any sort of confrontation, though. I have a close friend who is an excellent attorney that I'll talk to as soon as I know the extent of the A. Soon.


Yes, but what you will gain will be priceless.


----------



## M2lngha1

Well i think the first thing you need to do prior to breaking our your P.I. equipment is ask yourself if you want the marriage to work? If you're truly committed to the success of the marriage then this will dictate your next move, what you say and how you make her your top priority moving forward. I hope you see that your current position at your job has played a major role in how this situation has probably evolved. I know you were being just a good provider but it probably costs you in the long run. And this guy you keep referring to as a Best Friend? No best friend does that to you. If you are convinced that there's probably something serious going on you can find some financial means to support a few small audio and video tools you can purchase online that can help either prove you right or prove you wrong. It's worth the investment if you're looking to move on and not get taken to the cleaners when it's court time! That type of proof goes a long way in court!


----------



## Ansley

M2lngha1 said:


> And this guy you keep referring to as a Best Friend? No best friend does that to you. QUOTE]
> 
> A friend especially a best friend would've long ago called the husband and said "_man something is up with your wife..she is blowing my phone up"_


----------



## Shaggy

Update? Did the var work yesterday?


----------



## bff

I overhead a short conversation, but couldn't hear everything from the other side of it, mostly just my W. She was just telling him about her day - mundane stuff that no one but a spouse/SO would ever sit and listen to day after day. They did have one nice little exchange where she was telling him about something she wanted to do to our house and said that I wouldn't want to spend the money. Then the OM said, yeah, he (meaning me) wouldn't. Then my W said mockingly in a voice that I assume was supposed to be me, "we're not spending any more money." Then they both laughed [at me]. Awesome.


----------



## lordmayhem

bff said:


> I overhead a short conversation, but couldn't hear everything from the other side of it, mostly just my W. She was just telling him about her day - mundane stuff that no one but a spouse/SO would ever sit and listen to day after day. They did have one nice little exchange where she was telling him about something she wanted to do to our house and said that I wouldn't want to spend the money. Then the OM said, yeah, he (meaning me) wouldn't. Then my W said mockingly in a voice that I assume was supposed to be me, "we're not spending any more money." Then they both laughed [at me]. Awesome.


It's painful to actually hear your spouse mocking you behind your back. This is a typical OM ploy, just like my fWW's OM. OM encourages any gripes your WW has against you, with the added "If you were mine, I would give you everything you want and treat you better than your POS husband". OM does this to show he's superior to you. findingmyway said the predators like him do that. 

You WILL hear the affair related convos sooner or later.


----------



## sandc

It will be hard but keep recording. You'll find what you don't want to find... eventually. It will be hard so brace yourself for the wait.


----------



## AngryandUsed

I know it will be hard for bff to listen to the conversations.
Bff, as someone said earlier, prepare yourself for the worst but keep hoping......
You have already demonstrated your level headedness, and I am happy that you are doing things which most of us failed.
Stay calm. Calm. Calm.


----------



## Almostrecovered

is it just the one VAR in the car?


----------



## bff

JB, you don't need to understand. It's MY life. I've put in nearly 7 years of marriage and I want PROOF of what really happened here and my only chance to get that is now, while I can still keep a straight face in front of her. I can only anticipate what will help me process this in the long run, and right now I think knowing more will help me. While the little jokes about me behind my back are solidifying my decision to file and move on, as you suggest, what I'm really looking for (and it will be for a limited time only) is the smoking gun: "I can't wait to see you next week" "Are you coming over both nights when he's out of town?" "I miss you" etc.

Can you respect that?


----------



## keko

Can you tell her you need to go out of town for a few days(work related) and stay at a hotel while monitoring the house and her?


----------



## spudster

bff said:


> JB, you don't need to understand. It's MY life. I've put in nearly 7 years of marriage and I want PROOF of what really happened here and my only chance to get that is now, while I can still keep a straight face in front of her. I can only anticipate what will help me process this in the long run, and right now I think knowing more will help me. While the little jokes about me behind my back are solidifying my decision to file and move on, as you suggest, what I'm really looking for (and it will be for a limited time only) is the smoking gun: "I can't wait to see you next week" "Are you coming over both nights when he's out of town?" "I miss you" etc.
> 
> Can you respect that?


Don't worry about what JB100 thinks. His wayward wife owns him.


----------



## AngryandUsed

bff,
Stay calm. Act just normal.
I know you are doing that.

Collect as much as solid evidences possible. Donot jump the gun. A mistake will spoil the case.
Take care


----------



## WorkingOnMe

You know you might just find that they're just friends. That she talks to him the same way she talks to the girls. I suspect my wife complains about me to her girlfriends. It's just locker room talk. Then again you might find a smoking gun. Just keep an open mind.


----------



## Ansley

bff said:


> JB, you don't need to understand. It's MY life. I've put in nearly 7 years of marriage and I want PROOF of what really happened here and my only chance to get that is now, while I can still keep a straight face in front of her. I can only anticipate what will help me process this in the long run, and right now I think knowing more will help me. While the little jokes about me behind my back are solidifying my decision to file and move on, as you suggest, what I'm really looking for (and it will be for a limited time only) is the smoking gun: "I can't wait to see you next week" "Are you coming over both nights when he's out of town?" "I miss you" etc.
> 
> Can you respect that?


don't worry about stuff like this. You are doing fine. Sadly soon you'll have more than you need. Hang in there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

altho, I don't think you'll need this advice I will state it anyways as BS's always surprise me with self-denial (and I've been there myself so I understand)



When you do get proof and considering it will be verbal (unless you get a recording of them having sex) you need to be very aware of trickle truth, gaslighting and blameshifting during confrontation

be cognizant that...
you will want to believe her lies (they trickle truth and admit only to what you can prove)
you will want to accept blame of the problems in the marriage leading to her cheating

fight these urges and stand strong, her cheating is not your fault and you can't believe her unless you can verify it


----------



## iheartlife

The volume and timing alone indicate it's an emotional affair. The mundane nature of their discussions show it's long term, which you already knew.

But I would want solid, undeniable proof myself. I assume you couldn't hear them sign off?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## thunderstruck

WorkingOnMe said:


> You know you might just find that they're just friends. That she talks to him the same way she talks to the girls.


There is a very tiny possibility that the W is using the OM only as an emotional t*mpon. Still wrong by both of them, but not a PA. An EA...yeah, but it still might make the decision to leave the marriage a bit harder.


----------



## Ansley

SprucHub said:


> BFF - there are so many reasons why getting proof is important. Independently knowing the truth (if something is going on) is the best protection. Otherwise, you'll never know if what she tells you or what you are thinking is the truth. You won't trust her or yourself. Also, use this period of not knowing, doubt, frustration and pain to steady yourself and prepare.
> 
> Work through the emotional devestation and how you plan to react. Also, plan to not hear anything damaging.
> 
> Also, talk to a lawyer to plan for the worst. So you are set and have a plan in place. Gain the upper hand so that it does not throw off your work and social interactions.
> 
> There is a chance that they're just friends, but that her boundries are damaged.


I think he is way way ahead of that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Acabado

Maybe you can speed up this by faking a unplanned work travel but actually staying a couple of at an hotel room and taking adventage to talk to your lawyer. Dysplay the snooping tools at home (bedroom¿). Even if the don't get adventage of it due logistics problems surely the will talk about it.


----------



## Acabado

What are your plans if you confirm it's actually a PA? Does it mean automatically divorce? What if she claims desire to R? What are your conditions? What if it's "just" an EA? WW seems to far gone even they are not in a PA. Given you share the same circle of friends... how can you asure total NC?


----------



## bff

I have a real trip coming up very soon. Surveillance gear will be deployed. I am coming back a little earlier than originally planned, but haven't shared that information. Talking to a lawyer with that time is a really, really good idea.


----------



## iheartlife

Let's say it's not a traditional EA, like no I love you's have ever been exchanged. It's still a betrayal, she spends an extraordinary amount of effort and energy in that man's direction, b*tches about her H, and is likely sharing hopes, dreams, fears she doesn't bother telling her H. I have good GFs, I've been known to spend an occasional hour on the phone with them (every few weeks), but nothing that rises to this level.

Most of us lead busy lives and don't get to spend quality time with our spouses. Experts say we need to spend 15 hrs a week of good alone time with them, no tv. She's siphoning off as much as she can towards this man. At some point none of that stuff matters.

But I still support finding out more, I'd do the same.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bff

You're asking the million dollar questions, Acabado. Confirmed PA = automatic divorce for me regardless of what WW says.

If I find it is just "girl talk" and I go away on these trips and there's no visits from the OM to our house, then I am really, really, really stumped on what to do. I think that it would really come down to how WW reacts to getting caught. If she wants to make it my fault and see's it as MY problem that I can't handle that she has such a close friend, then divorce would also be the decision.

If she immediately went to NC on her own or readily agreed on my request, then I think I would consider that. Maybe. Not sure.

BTW - I suspect this has been going on for many years, not just the one year of phone records. When I say many, it could be as long as six. Yes, that's right. Six. I'll share the details later.


----------



## iheartlife

I was sure it was at least 3 when you described how blah their convo was.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bff

Something an earlier poster said really has stuck with me, "No [straight] man in the world would talk to a woman 5-7 times a day, every day, for a year or more without getting some p***y." I'm paraphrasing and added the straight part, but I think this is true.


----------



## Shaggy

bff said:


> Something an earlier poster said really has stuck with me, "No [straight] man in the world would talk to a woman 5-7 times a day, every day, for a year or more without getting some p***y." I'm paraphrasing and added the straight part, but I think this is true.


Because it is true, with one tweak. There are friend zoned passive guys who would talk this much all the while carrying a secret hope of getting some one day,

I had a friend A who had a gf. GF and our other friend B carried on as best buddies like that for years without cheating. B was totally to much of a wuss to ever actually make the move. Even though every one could see he wanted to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife

So if this man is someone you know extremely well, what's his personal life like? How does this fit in with what you know about him?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## COguy

Bff you're doing good and light years ahead of many of us that have been in your shoes. You sound like your doing the right stuff, keep it up.


----------



## bff

Thanks for the support! I owe you all a beer, a hug or SOMEthing. You've all already helped more than you can imagine.

To answer iheartlife - this guy isn't passive and I have a hard time believing he'd hang on that long to something like that. But, you never know - sometimes a rough exterior doesn't tell the whole story. He's not very responsible, and I just yesterday heard from another friend that he's on the rocks with his live-in girlfriend. Go figure. Puzzle pieces that fit are flying in from every direction.


----------



## thunderstruck

bff - it's hard to believe that a friend could play act this well in front of you for years. Not knocking you...maybe he's just good at it. Nothing about his behavior when you're one on one with him that doesn't burn your gut?


----------



## happyman64

BFF,

I would call her up when you leave for the trip and say "Honey, you know that work we talked about doing in the house? I have thought about it and think I would like that work done too!

Great idea. I love you! Bye."

Then listen to the VAR.

That conversation would be enlightening.

HM64


----------



## OldWolf57

bff, pay no attention to jb100, he gets slapped around and locked in sheds, so when he ask how long will this go on, he needs to ask himself that same ??. in fact, I gotta go to his thread to see if he changed the locks at his parents house.

bff, i do wish i could shake your hand. you may be riding the roller coaster, but you are one of the VERY few who didn't let emotions paralyze him from takin actions.


----------



## Entropy3000

bff said:


> I overhead a short conversation, but couldn't hear everything from the other side of it, mostly just my W. She was just telling him about her day - mundane stuff that no one but a spouse/SO would ever sit and listen to day after day. They did have one nice little exchange where she was telling him about something she wanted to do to our house and said that I wouldn't want to spend the money. Then the OM said, yeah, he (meaning me) wouldn't. Then my W said mockingly in a voice that I assume was supposed to be me, "we're not spending any more money." Then they both laughed [at me]. Awesome.


Not good. As has been stated this is how OM get in between their prey and their spouse. It is somewhat intuitive for some folks.


----------



## Entropy3000

iheartlife said:


> Let's say it's not a traditional EA, like no I love you's have ever been exchanged. It's still a betrayal, she spends an extraordinary amount of effort and energy in that man's direction, b*tches about her H, and is likely sharing hopes, dreams, fears she doesn't bother telling her H. I have good GFs, I've been known to spend an occasional hour on the phone with them (every few weeks), but nothing that rises to this level.
> 
> Most of us lead busy lives and don't get to spend quality time with our spouses. Experts say we need to spend 15 hrs a week of good alone time with them, no tv. She's siphoning off as much as she can towards this man. At some point none of that stuff matters.
> 
> But I still support finding out more, I'd do the same.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There is an emotional bond that she has with this OM. It is emotional energy, time and commitment that belongs to her husband IMO. 

They are meeting each others needs. I say it is an EA. An EA does not have to be romantic I love you's. It is also possible there is or has been crossing physical boundaries over the long term. 

BUT, I contend that that is not the only issue. All of this emotional focus on each other is detracting from the marriage. There are three people in the marriage. Again this is my opinion. 

At the very least this is VERY risky. Especially with all the travel involved.
This guy appears to be her best male friend. Is this true? A husband needs to be his wifes best male friend .... again IMO.


----------



## bff

It may just be your opinion, but I think you nailed it. I agree, 100%. Without taking blame, I can definitely see now how I have enabled this over the years.


----------



## lifeisnotsogood

I'm patiently waiting for the smoking gun. After you get it, share it with his live-in GF and then have sex with her. It won't make her feel any better but it will piss them off.


----------



## Entropy3000

bff said:


> Something an earlier poster said really has stuck with me, "No [straight] man in the world would talk to a woman 5-7 times a day, every day, for a year or more without getting some p***y." I'm paraphrasing and added the straight part, but I think this is true.


It is possible this has gone in and out of levels over six years. He technically may be an ex of hers now. Six years is a long time. No doubt their relationship has evolved over time.

I do think this is a huge investment of his time.


----------



## BrockLanders

bff said:


> Something an earlier poster said really has stuck with me, "No [straight] man in the world would talk to a woman 5-7 times a day, every day, for a year or more without getting some p***y." I'm paraphrasing and added the straight part, but I think this is true.


I think I said that. What kind of mind fcuk would it be if you captured some audio of this guy talking to your wife about taking mandingo sized c*cks in his poop chute? Anyways, have a great Friday despite all this crap.


----------



## Cubby

Wife and Best Friend mocking and criticizing bff.....Not good. Even with my best guy friends I never criticize my wife. And needless to say, that kind of talk is completely off limits with other females.

I agree with others, the Best Friend is encouraging the mockery of bff to make himself look better in her deluded eyes. It probably relieves some of the guilt they might have to make bff appear worse, to justify their wayward behavior.


----------



## Shaggy

I wonder what you wife woulda if you mocked BFF to her, or her to BFF

Maybe you can have some fun with them?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lovelygirl

Cubby said:


> Wife and *Best Friend*.


He's not a best friend to begin with.

He's not even a friend.


----------



## country boy

BFF, I just wanted you to know you are headed down a long road of mind f---ing blowing sh!t if this all comes out like I think it will. 

I went through this exact same thing two years ago with my XWW and a XBF. 

It took me several months to get the smoking gun and it nearly drove me bat sh!t crazy getting it to. In the end I had wasted those months trying to prove what I already knew in my heart was true. 

I had the same scenario as you. They talked on the phone when I was not around. At family gatherings they were two peas in a pod. They cooked together, ate together. He even carried XWW favorite drink around in his cooler for her. XWW would have OMBF pick my daughter up from school. XWW would eat breakfast with him every morning under the cover as he was my BFF. 

I confronted early on about their relationship and phone calls and how it did not look good at the family functions for her to be sitting with OMBF all the time. The answer I got was they were just. You guessed it. Just friends. 

I let this sh!t eat at me for another 5 months before I got the undeniable proof that I knew I would need. 

I knew this a$$ hole for 25 years. I am closer to his family (mother, father, brother, sisters) than my own. Exposing this to all them hurt nearly as bad as the infidelity. 

I guess what I am trying to get at is if I had to do it all over again I would hire a P.I. and let them do the dirty work and I would load up and head for the lake and enjoy those 5 months if you know what I mean. The reason I say this is I remember how depressing it was to go out and get the VAR out of her car and the batteries were dead or it had nothing on it but road noise. 

You are doing everything right but when you do get the undeniable proof you are looking for try and be prepared. A double betrayal is mind f—ing and has long lasting effects on your ability trust anyone. 
Good luck in you hunt my friend.


----------



## spudster

bff said:


> It may just be your opinion, but I think you nailed it. I agree, 100%. Without taking blame, I can definitely see now how I have enabled this over the years.


You did not do it on purpose though. So don't beat yourself up for it. You trusted them both and they took advantage of you. They are the ones in the wrong, not you.


----------



## sandc

Entropy3000 said:


> It is possible this has gone in and out of levels over six years. He technically may be an ex of hers now. Six years is a long time. No doubt their relationship has evolved over time.
> 
> I do think this is a huge investment of his time.


Exactly what I was thinking. They may not be on a physical level right now, but they probably have been at one time or another.


----------



## COguy

country boy said:


> I guess what I am trying to get at is if I had to do it all over again I would hire a P.I. and let them do the dirty work and I would load up and head for the lake and enjoy those 5 months if you know what I mean. The reason I say this is I remember how depressing it was to go out and get the VAR out of her car and the batteries were dead or it had nothing on it but road noise.


I think the idea is right, but as someone who just dropped $7k for like 3 nights out of PI stuff, I'd rather take the emotional hit. PIs are expensive, more expensive than lawyers. Hiring one for 5 months straight would cost you your life.

Depending on where you live, expect to pay $150-$500 an hour.


----------



## OldWolf57

bff, you do know a polygraph may be the only way to get to the truth if they are not physical at this time, but have been in the past.
You may not have to go thur with it, sometime telling them you want one forces them to come clean.


----------



## Ansley

lifeisnotsogood said:


> I'm patiently waiting for the smoking gun. After you get it, share it with his live-in GF and then have sex with her. It won't make her feel any better but it will piss them off.



BFF~ please dont pay attention to stuff like this. There are alot of people here who support you and are praying for you.


----------



## Chaparral

Bff, do not forget to take care of yourself. Go to the gym, work out , whatever you have to do to get physical exercise. I think weight lifting is the thing since it gives you a break from thinking while you exercise.

Here is a list of books you need to read in order of importance (my opinion only)

Married Man Sex Life ( not a sex manual but a relationship primer)

No More Mister Nice Guy

Not Just Friends

His needs her Needs 

Five Love Languages

Love Busters

The first two are for men and must reads for every male, the others for you both if you stay together or for you and your nest realtionship.

Have you read the newbies post?

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...e-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html#post430739


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

Vitamin C, take lots and LOTS of it. You need it if you are going to be stressing out, cortisol hormone has an affect on your body and mind. Eat healthy, dont drink alcohol, a healthy lifestyle means a healthy mind, body, and spirit, which in turn give a greater advantage on thinking and deciding with clarity (although you can still make mistakes, it helps if you take every advantage you can). This might be just EA but seriously, if my wife was talking to any man 5-6 times a day, not me, not her mom, but to a man, I would think that this EA went from EA TO PA then to EA. This is probably one of the smartest ops I've read about in a while. I can't even say how I'd react, my first gut reaction would be to ask her to cease and desist the moment I figured it out but another would be to leave it be and collect evidence to see where it goes, where it has been. Keep going hard, you're doing great!


----------



## keko

Could be PA turned EA.


----------



## Chaparral

Forgot to mention, go talk to your MD ASAP.


----------



## lifeisnotsogood

Almostrecovered said:


> 1) read the newbie link in my signature, get familiar with affairs and the terminology
> 2) go to walmart or best buy, get at least 2 VAR's. Place one with heavy duty velcro under the seat of her car. Place an another in the home where you think she would make calls or have booty calls.
> 3) download a keylogger
> 4) tell us what kind of phone she has, perhaps we can help with getting to those texts


How could you get deleted texts off an iphone from AT&T?


----------



## kostas

I think you know what is going on just in denial. Try to control yourself and think straight. If you think you can forgive infidelity then go ahead and spy on her but do not confront untill you have all the proof to, then confront her and force her into counseling. If you are not willling to forgive infidelity do not let your self suffer from somebody else's mistake just call your best friend and offer him your wife as a gift trust me this is the only way you are going to be able to move on with the least damage, if you are sure that you cannot forgive do it as fast as you can it will bring some kind of peace within you and the swiftest exit from a sick relationship if that is. Whatever the choice do not try to reason there is no logic in these circumstances and am sure she will never be able to tell you why, as to her choice more often than not people closer to us are the perpetrators of these affairs. and by the way she is neither the first or the last unfortunately infidelity is a human trait that some can suppress and some cant or choose not to. Either way dont take any blaim even if you are the biggest A**hole on this earth as she had a choice to walk out and do anything she want but usually women like to have their future covered before they f**k their present. Become her past before she manages to secure her future that way you might save some pain because pain you will have. and dont hesitate to help them pack her bag that will show that you are a gentleman that knows when to accept "defeat". If only they knew what the future beholds for them which you can see in other threads on this forum.


----------



## kostas

one more dont go down the ego path it will only drive you to the ground, trust me i have been through it and could not get up, only after you realise that all these is superficial you will be able to think straight. By the way my advise to give her as a gift was given to me by a psychologist I visited and really worked the minute I made the gesture to my best friend i transfered all her baggage on him let alone three months down the line he was running away like hell. Because when you think about it would you be comfortable with somebody who cheated to be with you or you will always watch your back?


----------



## piggyoink

lifeisnotsogood said:


> How could you get deleted texts off an iphone from AT&T?


I don't know about AT&T but in Canada on the FIDO network you can download an app called the official fido billing app. it allows manual control of texts, including automated emailing of in/out texts to any email address. Maybe AT&T has something similar to that.


----------



## Shaggy

bff you can force their hand a bit by being out for house on end and leaving a VAR around, and by planting criticisms of the other with the two of them. Then listening to the resulting conversation. Once you have the lay of the land, which I think you do, you can actually really control them.


----------



## Chaparral

Shaggy said:


> bff you can force their hand a bit by being out for house on end and leaving a VAR around, and by planting criticisms of the other with the two of them. Then listening to the resulting conversation. Once you have the lay of the land, which I think you do, you can actually really control them.


Shaggy..............well you are just insidious.


----------



## KanDo

lifeisnotsogood said:


> How could you get deleted texts off an iphone from AT&T?


By extracting them from the itunes backup. I mention the programs and the things I found toward the end of my thread. Pretty easy, actually.


----------



## Shaggy

chapparal said:


> Shaggy..............well you are just insidious.


thank you? Actually I do this kind of twist for a living if you can believe it.


----------



## warlock07

Shaggy said:


> thank you? Actually I do this kind of twist for a living if you can believe it.


Now I am curious


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

kostas said:


> I think you know what is going on just in denial. Try to control yourself and think straight. If you think you can forgive infidelity then go ahead and spy on her but do not confront untill you have all the proof to, then confront her and force her into counseling. If you are not willling to forgive infidelity do not let your self suffer from somebody else's mistake j*ust call your best friend and offer him your wife as a gift trust me this is the only way you are going to be able to move on with the least damage*, if you are sure that you cannot forgive do it as fast as you can it will bring some kind of peace within you and the swiftest exit from a sick relationship if that is. Whatever the choice do not try to reason there is no logic in these circumstances and am sure she will never be able to tell you why, as to her choice more often than not people closer to us are the perpetrators of these affairs. and by the way she is neither the first or the last unfortunately infidelity is a human trait that some can suppress and some cant or choose not to. Either way dont take any blaim even if you are the biggest A**hole on this earth as she had a choice to walk out and do anything she want but usually women like to have their future covered before they f**k their present. Become her past before she manages to secure her future that way you might save some pain because pain you will have. and dont hesitate to help them pack her bag that will show that you are a gentleman that knows when to accept "defeat". If only they knew what the future beholds for them which you can see in other threads on this forum.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Throw a a party to your close friends and invite OM and hand over her belongings to him along with her.


----------



## Shaggy

warlock07 said:


> Now I am curious


Ive said too much. OP good hunting,
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bff

Thanks for the ongoing support. Just checking in so you all know I haven't cracked OR found a smoking gun just yet. Preparing to go out of town and have upped my surveillance arsenal. If there's any visitation going on, I'll know by the end of the week. Keep your fingers crossed for me and send positive thoughts my way. I'm about sick of this in between mode. It really is torture.


----------



## Jibril

bff said:


> Thanks for the ongoing support. Just checking in so you all know I haven't cracked OR found a smoking gun just yet. Preparing to go out of town and have upped my surveillance arsenal. If there's any visitation going on, I'll know by the end of the week. Keep your fingers crossed for me and send positive thoughts my way. I'm about sick of this in between mode. It really is torture.


Alright then. I hope and pray that your entire situations stems from your wife's abhorrent boundaries, and she is nothing more than overly-friendly with your friend. And if this is the case, I hope that you and your wife work through this and strengthen your marriage as a result.

Good luck, and safe travels.


----------



## Acabado

Positive thoughts your way.


----------



## AngryandUsed

BFF,

Things will be fine with you. Prayers.

AU


----------



## happyman64

BFF

Safe travels and focus on your trip.

Everything will be there when you get back.

HM64


----------



## Jellybeans

Ansley said:


> M2lngha1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And this guy you keep referring to as a Best Friend? No best friend does that to you. QUOTE]
> 
> A friend especially a best friend would've long ago called the husband and said "_man something is up with your wife..she is blowing my phone up"_
> 
> 
> 
> I totally agree.
> 
> A true friend would want no part of that. At all.
> 
> This reminds me of some of my colleagues, who are good friends. Colleague A was really into this guy, B and they had a thing goin. Colleague C was friends with both A & B and we were all out one day together and B hit on Colleague C. Colleague C told me about it and decided to let Colleague A know to not waste her time on him anymore.
> 
> THAT is what you call a "good" or "best friend" or a "friend" at all.
> 
> Colleague A ended it with B.
Click to expand...


----------



## Baffled01

keko said:


> Can you tell her you need to go out of town for a few days(work related) and stay at a hotel while monitoring the house and her?


Yes, faking an out of town trip is the best way to get a 'smoking gun'.


----------



## bff

OP, here. I should have specified that I believe my wife is having an EA with my best MALE friend. I've always considered my wife to be my best friend. If you look at my top 10 texting, calling and everything-else targets, it's her. She is where all my emotional energy goes. I just don't appear to be her best friend any more.

Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## Jellybeans

No confusion. I think Plan 9 was just saying how YOU should be her best friend, that this other guy shouldn't come close to the relationship she has with you. 

Your marriage should be prioritized over any "friendship" she has which isn't happening here. Which is why everyone is concerned (as are you).


----------



## AngryandUsed

BFF,

In the matter of EA (or worse PA), you are doing well. When I was there, I did not know TAM.

I mishandled the issue, jumped the gun. I attained my lowest self-esteem, lost appetite, lost weight. Did not do well at job.

So, I would not like to see you doing the mistakes I did. I know you are much better than me in handling this. Even a single mistake, you will get "jealous", "feeling insecure" etc. So, have all the evidences possible, and you are just on the right track.

Just to let you know, I wish you well. Take care, good care.


----------



## snap

I'm a bit envious of your self-control bff. If only I were able to not confront right away after every bit of evidence, it would've been less of a pain in the long run..

Stay strong and keep your cool.


----------



## shattered319

BFF, my heart goes out to you. I recently found out about my husband's EA and it broke my heart. He's not sure if he can give her up. We've only been married just under a year and five months and this hit me like a brick. My husband said there has been nothing sexual and I pray he is telling me the truth. I don't believe your wife's EA is just that, though. Too much time. I think it's gone to PA. So sorry you're going through this. Keep us updated. I think "faking a conference" is a great idea....


----------



## bff

Thanks again to all for the kind words and support. I'm several states away, now, and hoping to have *something* more definitive when I get home later this week. Phone records show more of the same - regular lunch/commute phone calls plus several extra calls in the evening. Makes me believe that he's not visiting our house given the timing of the calls. 

A&U, Shattered, so sorry to hear that you had to go through this all already (or are in the midst of it all). Being betrayed sucks. I still cannot believe that the happy, cheery woman I just talked to on the phone is hanging up with me and immediately calling another man and chatting for another 30 minutes after she already spoke to him several times earlier in the day. But, the evidence shows that's clearly what is happening. The deceit really is the worst part.


----------



## Jellybeans

Has his girlfriend ever said anything abot their relationship?


----------



## Ansley

She's happy and cheery because she can put the guard down this week
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

bff said:


> Makes me believe that he's not visiting our house given the timing of the calls. .


not to make you paranoid, but my wife and OM would call before and after their trysts, so it doesn't necessarily mean he isn't coming over.


----------



## Almostrecovered

where are the VAR's, do you have more than one?


----------



## Shaggy

Did you think ahead and tell her you woke be returning a day or two later than you really are, so you can show up home early and unannounced?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## thunderstruck

bff said:


> I still cannot believe that the happy, cheery woman I just talked to on the phone is hanging up with me and immediately calling another man and chatting for another 30 minutes after she already spoke to him several times earlier in the day.


bff - you are one strong mofo for keeping it together while this is going on. It would be incredibly hard for me to not confront based on what you already know, but you are playing this the right way. I'm guessing from your posts that you've already braced yourself for the worst in your mind. Don't let out of control anger make you do something you'll regret later.

Your post above...I've never caught my W in an EA/PA, but I've seen some of her conversations (she doesn't know) completely trashing me and the marriage. And she would be happy/cheery around me minutes before/after making those comments to someone else. Mind blowing.


----------



## bff

Shaggy, even though I've been fantasizing about it, I don't want to walk in on them. While gratifying on some level and clearly definitive, I'm afraid of how that situation could turn ugly or physical. The OM is not a small guy, and I know that he has a history of getting in fights when he was younger. I think I'll let judgment be the better part of valor here (ok, call me a wimp) and let electronic means capture the action for me.

As cool and calculating as I'm being now, I can imagine the rage I'd feel walking up to my house if his car was in the driveway. The last thing I need is to do something stupid (where did I put those golf clubs?) and ruin my position of relative squeaky clean strength, here.


----------



## thunderstruck

bff said:


> ...valor here (ok, call me a wimp) and let electronic means capture the action for me.


No, you aren't being a wimp. It would no doubt feel great to beat the OM with a club, but then you'd likely end up with massive legal troubles, while navigating a divorce. No valor there. 

Stay strong.


----------



## shattered319

BFF, this is so sad that you are going through this. I, myself, just found out about my husband's EA this past Saturday. To say that I am reeling is a VAST understatement. He admitted to the affair after he told me he has realized he doesn't want children. We've only been married for a year and less than five months so this hit me REALLY hard.  My self esteem feels like it's in the toilet and I think I'm going to get into counseling soon. I am hopeful that the marriage can be saved but I have to say that with each passing day, I am losing hope. I want us to try counseling and he said he will do that if he chooses to stay in the marriage. If he chooses that, I will have him write a NC letter and show me his texts and emails. What kills me is that while I was reading the letter he wrote to me about kids, she was texting him that she loved him and calling him hun. That's my job!! I did find her phone number on his phone last night and I'm contemplating what I want to do with it. :scratchhead: H and I are supposed to go to a family reunion this weekend and my birthday is next week. I guess I am just wanting to get through those first. He says that no matter what happens, he wants me to know that he's always loved and cared for me. Always. After he left for work this morning, I sat on our bed and sobbed. I am so tired of crying. 
I can't imagine the betrayal you must be feeling. Just know that there are others who know how you feel and we're all here for you.


----------



## shattered319

thunderstruck said:


> No, you aren't being a wimp. It would no doubt feel great to beat the OM with a club, but then you'd likely end up with massive legal troubles, while navigating a divorce. No valor there.
> 
> Stay strong.


:iagree:


----------



## bandit.45

Just keep your cool brother. You are doing fine. Just stay stealthy and gather the evidence... then when you have the evidence built up, drop it on them and everyone they know like a nuclear strike....full atomic blitzkrieg.

If you do it right it will be glorious.


----------



## Baffled01

BFF, hope you realize your 'best friend' is truly not your best friend, and really-- not your friend at all. Whatever becomes of this situation I hope you decide to put some distance between the two of you in the future, because that much communication between your wife and him really is inappropriate, especially when they are disrespectful like that. Even if they are not having a PA.


----------



## bff

I absolutely, positively understand that he's not my friend. Regardless of what other decision(s) I make about my future with my wife, my relationship with him is done for good once I'm able to be out in the open about what I know. It's going to be ugly, since we're in the same social circles and have many common friends. I have a feeling he won't get much sympathy from them.

BTW, I read most of NOT Just Friends on the plane yesterday. I didn't realize it was so completely focused on reconciliation and repair. There was only one chapter about whether the relationship is worth saving. I've ordered another book for my kindle about making the decision to stay or go. That's what I'm struggling with right now, even just knowing what I already know.


----------



## Zak68

bff, been reading this and it reads a lot like my life. Found out wife had EA for 6 mo with best friend. My spidey sense went off one day, cracked her email and found the proof. I confronted him after going to a friends house for emotional support. I wanted to deck the guy and held back. He wasn't worth it.
Wife was an alcoholic, says it was part of her addiction. She tried to kill herself 5 mo later, survived and is sober for almost 3 years now. 
We are working on the relationship but honestly, I do it mainly for the kids. I don't trust her, doubt I ever will again. Not sure if I can have love with no trust.
Another thing you can do is sneak her phone, she'll think she misplaced it. Use it to text him something to force the topic on what they may be doing. I did that with my wife's email to get the other guy to come over so I could confront him. That was after I forwarded all her emails to my private email so I would have proof for a divorce. I still have those, just in case...


----------



## sandc

Take your time and think it through. If you do find evidence I would suggest contacting a lawyer and drawing up D papers immediately. That way you're prepared no matter what you decide. Also, having the D papers in front of her is a great way to show your WS that you mean business in the event you do decide to R. She doesn't meet the terms of R, then the D goes through. You can always cancel if you change your mind.

You've kept cool and you seem to be a very intelligent man. I'm sure you've thought of this but I just wanted to make sure.


----------



## Jellybeans

I totally agree with Sand. 

If you do find out, file and have her served. Nothing says "I am totally serious & will not stand for this" like following through with actions.


----------



## Wazza

Zak68 said:


> We are working on the relationship but honestly, I do it mainly for the kids. I don't trust her, doubt I ever will again. Not sure if I can have love with no trust.


Without hijacking...I stayed for the kids and successfully rebuilt. The trust thing is hard but it gets better over time (our blowup was 20+ years ago). I know that my wife is a good person who made a mistake in a bad moment, and it hurt her terribly. She is not at heart a cheater.

You know your wife. If your gut feel is that she is decent but you doubt because she betrayed your trust before, time can heal that, mostly at least.


----------



## Wazza

bff said:


> Being betrayed sucks. I still cannot believe that the happy, cheery woman I just talked to on the phone is hanging up with me and immediately calling another man and chatting for another 30 minutes after she already spoke to him several times earlier in the day. But, the evidence shows that's clearly what is happening. The deceit really is the worst part.


She may not get how you see it. That doesn't make it hurt less but it may offer a way forward, assuming you want it and assuming your VARs don't find the physical thing.

Lots of people suspicious here, but none of us actually know the truth.

You are cool headed, I am sure you already know this.

Good luck with your decision.


----------



## Chaparral

Almostrecovered said:


> not to make you paranoid, but my wife and OM would call before and after their trysts, so it doesn't necessarily mean he isn't coming over.


This was also my thought. When you mentioned previously when they were making late night calls. WW's love to call after a rendevous.

*Someone asked about going to the gym. She works only mid-day and goes to the gym before work. The guy works in the other direction from her office. He works regular hours and has the type of job where he cannot get away from work easily during the day. She doesn't really have any time that I can't account for when I think they could get together other than when I go to my conferences. But that is often enough. 
*

She may not be going to the gym. We have seen this before. Doing some early work for a friend of mine, I found out people were using his warehouse parking lot as early five in the morning to regularly meet.


----------



## Jonesey

Any updates mate?


----------



## Almostrecovered

well he's on his trip right now so I doubt it


----------



## thunderstruck

chapparal said:


> She may not be going to the gym.


On the gym thing, I recall reading a post along these lines at a diff marriage forum. An H put a tracker in his W's car, and saw that her car actually went to the gym, and remained there during the times she said she was there. His gut was burning, so he followed one time. He watched as his W parked at the gym, then hopped into the OM's truck and took off. Never underestimate what a FN cheater will do.


----------



## Almostrecovered

thunderstruck said:


> On the gym thing, I recall reading a post along these lines at a diff marriage forum. An H put a tracker in his W's car, and saw that her car actually went to the gym, and remained there during the times she said she was there. His gut was burning, so he followed one time. He watched as his W parked at the gym, then hopped into the OM's truck and took off. Never underestimate what a FN cheater will do.


while the scenario is very plausible, I think that was from a troll thread where she was in a cabal of a powerful sex club


----------



## anonim

thunderstruck said:


> On the gym thing, I recall reading a post along these lines at a diff marriage forum. An H put a tracker in his W's car, and saw that her car actually went to the gym, and remained there during the times she said she was there. His gut was burning, so he followed one time. He watched as his W parked at the gym, then hopped into the OM's truck and took off. Never underestimate what a FN cheater will do.


She was onto him. I think i saw a thread on DC website where someone advised this strategy to another member.


----------



## thunderstruck

The thread I mentioned with the gym and the tracker was over at the divorce busting forum years ago. No idea if it was legit or not, but it's something I've stored away for possible future use.


----------



## Entropy3000

Whether that thread was legit or not does not matter.

This IS very common as cheating goes.


----------



## Fvstringpicker

thunderstruck said:


> ago. No idea if it was legit or not, but it's something I've stored away for possible future use.


Why give a rat azz if its legit or not. If the busted spouse complains, tell um to sue you.


----------



## TDSC60

sandc said:


> Take your time and think it through. If you do find evidence I would suggest contacting a lawyer and drawing up D papers immediately. That way you're prepared no matter what you decide. Also, having the D papers in front of her is a great way to show your WS that you mean business in the event you do decide to R. She doesn't meet the terms of R, then the D goes through. You can always cancel if you change your mind.
> 
> You've kept cool and you seem to be a very intelligent man. I'm sure you've thought of this but I just wanted to make sure.


In most States you can download a DIY divorce kit and fill it out yourself. If you actually choose the divorce route go to a lawyer - definitely.

But - printing out and presenting the DIY divorce papers to the wife along with a print out of phone records would be good for the shock value. If it comes to that.


----------



## Chaparral

TDSC60 said:


> In most States you can download a DIY divorce kit and fill it out yourself. If you actually choose the divorce route go to a lawyer - definitely.
> 
> But - printing out and presenting the DIY divorce papers to the wife along with a print out of phone records would be good for the shock value. If it comes to that.


All the shock less the cost of an attorney plus yopur are asking her to start figuring out the division of property and assets.

You know like a bucket of cold water but way more effective.

If you can't download it you should be able to get it at the county courthouse.

Some people just leave it lying around in a conspicuous place. 

Like a surprise.


----------



## Jonesey

Almostrecovered said:


> well he's on his trip right now so I doubt it


thanks


----------



## keko

thunderstruck said:


> On the gym thing, I recall reading a post along these lines at a diff marriage forum. An H put a tracker in his W's car, and saw that her car actually went to the gym, and remained there during the times she said she was there. His gut was burning, so he followed one time. He watched as his W parked at the gym, then hopped into the OM's truck and took off. Never underestimate what a FN cheater will do.


Anyone remember RGoldman's thread? His wife was leaving gym to swinger parties...


----------



## Jonesey

keko said:


> Anyone remember RGoldman's thread? His wife was leaving gym to swinger parties...


Wasent he a TROLL?


----------



## bff

Hey friends. No significant updates since I'm away right now. Anxious, of course, as to what I'll find as far as evidence goes when I get home tomorrow night. One small bummer - my access to the cell phone records has been cut off. This morning when I went on, in addition to the normal password, it asked me the name of her first pet, and I don't know that. I assume it is just a normal procedure that after a certain number of logins, they ask you. Could be that I've logged in too many times over the last week. 

Anyway, I was smart enough to save off all the activity from the last year while I DID have access. No denying that, now!

Having a little time away from home has put me into sort of a low grade funk. I'm just so BUMMED that this is happening to me. But, I haven't lost my resolve to deal with it properly when I get home. I believe I'm not going to find any visits to the house, but hopefully will overhear enough on the phone to help make my decision easy.

We'll see. 

More updates once I am able to view/listen to my devices on Thursday night or Friday.


----------



## TDSC60

bff. You are one got-it-together man. I really hope you find what you are looking for - one way or the other. Limbo sucks.


----------



## Chaparral

Do you think it is possible she is intentionally keeping from getting pregnant and making it look like she is trying to get pregnant?


----------



## iheartlife

bff said:


> Hey friends. No significant updates since I'm away right now. Anxious, of course, as to what I'll find as far as evidence goes when I get home tomorrow night. One small bummer - my access to the cell phone records has been cut off. This morning when I went on, in addition to the normal password, it asked me the name of her first pet, and I don't know that. I assume it is just a normal procedure that after a certain number of logins, they ask you. Could be that I've logged in too many times over the last week.


Could it be you're using a different device to log in, or they can detect that you aren't using the same ISP? Hopefully it is nothing more than that.


----------



## AngryandUsed

bff said:


> Hey friends. No significant updates since I'm away right now. Anxious, of course, as to what I'll find as far as evidence goes when I get home tomorrow night. One small bummer - my access to the cell phone records has been cut off. This morning when I went on, in addition to the normal password, it asked me the name of her first pet, and I don't know that. I assume it is just a normal procedure that after a certain number of logins, they ask you. Could be that I've logged in too many times over the last week.
> 
> Anyway, I was smart enough to save off all the activity from the last year while I DID have access. No denying that, now!
> 
> Having a little time away from home has put me into sort of a low grade funk. I'm just so BUMMED that this is happening to me. But, I haven't lost my resolve to deal with it properly when I get home. I believe I'm not going to find any visits to the house, but hopefully will overhear enough on the phone to help make my decision easy.
> 
> We'll see.
> 
> More updates once I am able to view/listen to my devices on Thursday night or Friday.


Is it that she has started doubting that you are following the tail?


----------



## RClawson

BFF,

I have read your thread with great interest. Early in my marriage my wife had a female walking partner that she spent a great deal of time with. She walked every day of the week with her and they spent a couple of hours talking everyday. When it became ritual on Saturday mornings I thought it odd and asked if she would stop so we could spend time together. Imagine my shock when she told me no. I had no clue how to deal with it and fortunately we moved to the other side of town making it near impossible to keep that same routine. I cannot tell you how much that hurt having a spouse choose someone over you. Someone you thought you had waited all your life to find. 

You do not need evidence or records or anything. At this point it is just fact and you need to point it out and tell it stops, with complete transparency, or you stop. She is already invested in him and I have a difficult time believe she will be able to see you or recognize who you are and were through that fog she has surrounded herself with. 

In retrospect if I asked my wife to make that choice today and she chose her friend I would be getting the luggage down from the attic and begin packing.


----------



## happyman64

Patience BFF.

Focus on work.

Everything will be waiting for you once you get home.

And before you confront your wife ask her the name of her favorite pet........

Get the updated call records so you have all the info.


----------



## Almostrecovered

I agree with iheartlife, the fact you are trying to log into the phone records while out of town (with a different ip than usual) is the reason the site is asking a security question, I've had this happen to me as well. You'll probably regain access when accessing the records at home.


----------



## tears

its a security protocol that gmail adopts to ensure that you aren't a bot or a hacker accessing the account from a remote location. I think gmail warns the user about their account having been accessed from another location, your wife might have received the notification indicating the same. Do you have a vpn setup at home? If so, you can access her email through the VPN and this wouldn't give warnings of multiple access locations to your wife.


----------



## aug

So, now you may want to assume that she knows someone is trying to access her gmail (is it gmail?) account. If your VAR is working, the taped conversation could get very interesting.


----------



## snap

Thought he tried to access cellphone provider billing data


----------



## tears

Oh I'm sorry I misread the post.


----------



## thunderstruck

Hopefully the W didn't find the VAR, and then changed her password at the phone billing site. Or, maybe she's been keylogging bff, and saw that he was checking the phone records.


----------



## AngryandUsed

thunderstruck said:


> Hopefully the W didn't find the VAR, and then changed her password at the phone billing site. Or, maybe she's been keylogging bff, and saw that he was checking the phone records.


I think this is the case.


----------



## bff

Unknown IP address FTW. I'm back in now that I'm home (just landed). Will report back on findings in a few hours.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Unsure in Seattle

Be careful. Take it slow and easy. Most of all, take care of yourself. If anything is out of sorts, don't give anybody the satisfaction of seeing you have a meltdown.

Best of luck.


----------



## keko

Listen to the recordings away from home.


----------



## thunderstruck

For God's sake, brace yourself before you listen. Don't get thrown in jail over this. No matter what, remember that you have better days ahead.


----------



## Jibril

Brew yourself a nice, strong cup of tea (with lemon and honey, no milk), before you start checking your recordings. 

I find that hot tea helps calm the nerves when stressed, and the lemon/honey helps with the nausea. I hope you won't need it, but please, do this. Just in case.


----------



## Almostrecovered

And make copies of the recordings and store them somewhere safe right away


----------



## bff

Oh man. This hurts. Smoking gun. Video of his car showing up at my house around 7pm and leaving at 10:30pm each night I'm gone. F*&k.

I've got a couple hours to get myself under control before she comes home tonite. I think I'm going to try and see a lawyer tomorrow before I confront her.

Oh man. Honestly, the whole way home on the plane I was thinking about R, but this is the big D. Absolutely. Positively. F*&k.

I think the good news is, the VAR in the bedroom didn't work. I thought I wanted to hear it. Now I'm pretty sure I don't.

I'll stay strong. Just a couple more days. Maybe just one more day.


----------



## Complexity

So sorry man. Stay strong


----------



## COguy

Just an FYI, as I said, these recordings are ILLEGAL. So when you make them, put them in an encrypted file and don't share the password with anyone. You can use truecrypt (Untitled) for free which does this. If you use a strong password (like 15+ characters mixed case with numbers and punctuation), it is pretty much uncrackable.

Last thing you want is a felony on your record, so be smart about it.


----------



## Jellybeans

Sorry to hear about his car being there 3.5 hours... 

What did she tell you she was doing on the nights he was thee? If I were you, I'd ask again "Hey so what did you do in the evenings when I was gone?"

It's really too bad the VAR didn't work. Is there any way you can move it around tonight to try to pick up on something, anything at all???


----------



## keko

Damn. What kind of a friend does that.


----------



## Jellybeans

And how did you get video footage of him leaving your house? Curious.


----------



## DailyGrind

bff said:


> Oh man. This hurts. Smoking gun. Video of his car showing up at my house around 7pm and leaving at 10:30pm each night I'm gone. F*&k.
> 
> I've got a couple hours to get myself under control before she comes home tonite. I think I'm going to try and see a lawyer tomorrow before I confront her.
> 
> Oh man. Honestly, the whole way home on the plane I was thinking about R, but this is the big D. Absolutely. Positively. F*&k.
> 
> I think the good news is, the VAR in the bedroom didn't work. I thought I wanted to hear it. Now I'm pretty sure I don't.
> 
> I'll stay strong. Just a couple more days. Maybe just one more day.



Of course you realize that she will absolutely gaslight you....["He was just coming over to keep me company, cause you were gone. What a good friend he was being. What??? Are you accusing me of something?? How could you possibly dare think that?"] 

You know this is coming,...right?


----------



## Jellybeans

keko said:


> Damn. What kind of a friend does that.


He's not a "friend."


----------



## Wanting1

My heart just broke for you. I'm so sorry. I know you were pretty sure, but it must be devastating to see how bold they have become. 

They will try to convince you nothing happened while he was there. Be strong.


----------



## Jellybeans

DailyGrind said:


> Of course you realize that she will absolutely gaslight you....["He was just coming over to keep me company, cause you were gone. What a good friend he was being. What??? Are you accusing me of something?? How could you possibly dare think that?"]
> 
> You know this is coming,...right?


Agreed. That is why it's better if he has VAR-proof of the conversations. All she will do is deny it and say, Yeah he was here... so what??? And be more careful about it next time.


----------



## bandit.45

So sorry bff. See the lawyer then lower the boom. Expose to everyone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TDSC60

bff said:


> Oh man. This hurts. Smoking gun. Video of his car showing up at my house around 7pm and leaving at 10:30pm each night I'm gone. F*&k.
> 
> I've got a couple hours to get myself under control before she comes home tonite. I think I'm going to try and see a lawyer tomorrow before I confront her.
> 
> Oh man. Honestly, the whole way home on the plane I was thinking about R, but this is the big D. Absolutely. Positively. F*&k.
> 
> I think the good news is, the VAR in the bedroom didn't work. I thought I wanted to hear it. Now I'm pretty sure I don't.
> 
> I'll stay strong. Just a couple more days. Maybe just one more day.


Separate your bank accounts before you confront her. If you have direct deposit go open a new account in your name only.

Talk to the lawyer and get your option before confronting her.

When you do confront her DO NOT TELL HER how you found out. Just say I know what you and POSOM have been doing and that the divorce papers are being prepared.

Sorry for what you have to go through, but you will be better off without her.

She is going to deny everything. It was just him and her watching a movie. If you really need to nail it down tighter get out of the house before she gets home. I think you said you told her you would be back tomorrow. See if he shows up again. Reset that VAR in the bedroom - maybe put two in there.


----------



## Shaggy

Talk to the OM GF and ask her what he has been up to these nights while you were gone. Call her now and ask before your wife can warn him.


----------



## keko

Although you know she's cheating, she will deny it. It probably doesn't matter but if you're leaving again anytime soon, you can set up camera's inside as well.


----------



## bandit.45

And remember, if one of you moves out make sure it is her. If you leave she will nail you for abandonment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

Sorry BFF -- It doesn't help but your heart knew this was going on all along. Now you know 100% certain.

Take care of yourself -- listen to the advice on here --

Things will get better with time !!


----------



## BrockLanders

Is it possible to call and say your trip was delayed another day? Then you could go into the house and bust them physically.

Also, I know it's rough to hear, but maybe you should gather her underwear and have them tested so there's no questions. At this point I guess this is probably superfluous, but it would squash any lies they try to tell when you confront.


----------



## happyman64

BFF

If you want to try to get a confession then do this,

Confront her calmly. Play the 1st var that worked.

Ask her for the truth.

If you do not get it or only partial play the video. Ask her agian for the truth.

Hold up the VAR for the bedroom and say you have everything recorded. Tell her this is her last chance to come clean.

That is all you can do.

Or you can confront, listen to her BS and then go from there.

No matter what I do feel for you buddy.

HM64


----------



## Shaggy

You might want to grab her recently worn panties from the laundry and secure them outside the home like in your car in a plastic ziplock bag. You can use semen detection kits on them. 

Also check for sheets in the lauundry and recently worn lingers etc.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## betamale

This sucks, don't leave the house, she has to leave. Don't buy any excuse: low self esteem is BS, being neglected is BS, feeling lonely is also BS. DON'T LET HER TOUCH YOU.

The thrill of (not) being caught was feeding her fantasy, now that thrill is gone. 

As I said: kick her out today, not tomorrow, NOW. 

She needs to know who's in charge. Good luck.


----------



## cabin fever

Man this one really sucks BFF. I really feel for ya. 

I remember that feeling when you finally know for sure what is gonig on. Its truly like being kicked in the gut. 

My only advice is prepare your self for the fact that if she is really that emtionally attched this guy, then she will most likely be more worried about him, then you. That will hurt, but if you prepare yourself for it up front, it will make it easier. 

Good luck dude. Just keep telling yourself that you deserve better.


----------



## cabin fever

I also agree with kickin her azz to the curb! Tell her to go stay with OM. 


I would also try to confront OM's G/F shortly before she gets home. Before she knows, and before the OM< can warn her that you know.


----------



## Complexity

I suspect she will come out with the expected excuse that she got "lonely" and "needed attention" because of your travels.


----------



## Jibril

Disappointing news. I'm very sorry, Bff.

There is some conflicting advice here about handling the VAR and recordings. I don't know where you live, Bff, but I'd be cautious about revealing the footage/recordings to your spouse or OM. As others have stated, the recordings _may_ be illegal, and the last thing you need is her or him suing you over it.

Not that I imagine they'd do it.

Get in touch with a lawyer. Right now. At the latest, tomorrow morning. End this charade marriage as soon as you can and on _your_ terms.

With that said, the first order of business is exposing to the OM's girlfriend. Ask her if she knows where her boyfriend has been. Tell her what you know. Give her the recordings if she asks.

Then, expose to your wife's parents. This _needs_ to happen, because she will paint you as the abusive, neglectful villain when the divorce rolls around, to garner sympathy from friends and family. Knock that option out from under her before she can use it against you.

Afterwards, tell your parents. Hopefully, the Lawyer will have her served within a few days, and you can move on from there.

Remember - _Do not leave your house_.
- Do not touch her, and do not let her touch you. 
- Do not be afraid to call the police if she (or the OM) gets violent.

If you're lucky, you may get her to leave the house. Maybe put her stuff in garbage bags and leave it outside for her to take with her to her family's place. May work. May not. But worth a shot.


----------



## sandc

Dang. It always seems to be the most crucial VAR that doesn't work. I know you didn't want to hear what was on it but you needed that to be rock solid sure.

How did it not work? Was it turned off? Did it just not record anything? Don't use Happyman's bluff if it was turned off. She may have discovered it and turned it off herself. In this case if you try to bluff with it she'll know.


----------



## Wazza

IMO it's not necessarily your smoking gun.

They are close, they spend time together. You already know that and that is all that is actually proven.

I don't know what to suggest, but you don't have evidence yet. For example, did the VAR in the bedroom not work because they never went there?


----------



## Complexity

SprucHub said:


> And you are "emotionally distant" and/or "controlling". "Things have been bad for a while" she'll say. DO NOT BELIEVE THE BS. DO NOT FEEL THE NEED TO RESPOND BEYOND "Rationalize it any way you want. You know the truth, I know the truth, find yourself some place to stay."


Exactly. Or he could simply say: "don't you think I get lonely and need female affection as well?, but I kept true to my vows and never stepped out on our marriage, least of all with one your best friends"

That's an incredibly low thing to do.


----------



## Jellybeans

Wazza said:


> IMO it's not necessarily your smoking gun.
> 
> They are close, they spend time together. You already know that and that is all that is actually proven.
> 
> I don't know what to suggest, but *you don't have evidence yet.* For example, did the VAR in the bedroom not work because they never went there?


I have to agree with this :iagree:

The video isn't the smoking gun. Sure, it looks suspicious and your gut's prob spot on but you need more. More proof. You need the words to go along w/ it. 

Can you wait? All she is going to do is say "Yeah he came over... nothing happened. Why are you acting so jealous?"

She will play that card no matter what if you don't have the actual PROOF.


----------



## keko

On the other hand will seeing his stbx wife getting banged help him mentally move on or make him paranoid for the rest of his life?


----------



## aug

With the password challenge and the VAR "failing", I would think she knows by now that bff is suspicious.

At least the video camera worked. Backup this recording and put it offsite.

bff should get his finances in order.

bff should keep an active VAR on him at all times. Most States are one-party consent.

Then expose like crazy?


----------



## MarriedTex

If possible, tell them flight was cancelled for a day. Then show up about 8:30 with flowers, saying you were able to pull strings to finally get back home. Maybe catch them together?


----------



## aug

MarriedTex said:


> If possible, tell them flight was cancelled for a day. Then show up about 8:30 with flowers, saying you were able to pull strings to finally get back home. Maybe catch them together?



Quietly and bring a camera? Park your car away from the house.


----------



## thunderstruck

Have a VAR in your pocket when you confront. She may get violent...you never know how she'll react when cornered.


----------



## CH

keko said:


> Damn. What kind of a friend does that.


The kind of friend where a bunch of us takes him out somewhere and he finds a way home after getting beaten to within an inch of his life.

Stay strong bff

I would do a video montage for her before you left. pics of you, her growing up together then at the end splice in the video footage and in big letters, just sign the D papers please, goodbye.


----------



## Complexity

Wazza said:


> IMO it's not necessarily your smoking gun.
> 
> They are close, they spend time together. You already know that and that is all that is actually proven.
> 
> I don't know what to suggest, but you don't have evidence yet. For example, did the VAR in the bedroom not work because they never went there?


Whilst I agree, it's called putting two and two together. The texts, the distance and the late night 3 hour visits..... 
I doubt they were doing bible study.....


----------



## MarriedTex

Complexity said:


> Whilst I agree, it's called putting two and two together. The texts, the distance and the late night 3 hour visits.....
> I doubt they were doing bible study.....


Hey, maybe they were just watching the Olympics together all week. Yeah, that's it. The Olympics. Love that Michael Phelps!!


----------



## aug

Complexity said:


> Whilst I agree, it's called putting two and two together. The texts, the distance and the late night 3 hour visits.....
> I doubt they were doing bible study.....


and also the indications listed the first post.


----------



## happyman64

Complexity said:


> Whilst I agree, it's called putting two and two together. The texts, the distance and the late night 3 hour visits.....
> I doubt they were doing bible study.....


And I doubt she ever said her "friend" was over the house either. 

But the situation is just wrong.


----------



## Wazza

Complexity said:


> Whilst I agree, it's called putting two and two together. The texts, the distance and the late night 3 hour visits.....
> I doubt they were doing bible study.....


7 to 10 is not late night. That could be "come over, watch a movie, keep me company." 7pm to 7am might be a different matter.

I'm not saying nothing is going on. I'm saying at this stage all BFF has is further proof that they are close. We have a lot of us here who have been cheated on and are ready to think the worst. The worst may be true but it's not proven.


----------



## happyman64

Wazza said:


> 7 to 10 is not late night. That could be "come over, watch a movie, keep me company." 7pm to 7am might be a different matter.
> 
> I'm not saying nothing is going on. I'm saying at this stage all BFF has is further proof that they are close. We have a lot of us here who have been cheated on and are ready to think the worst. The worst may be true but it's not proven.


That is why I said to bluff with the video and Var's. 

Again, we do not know what his wife told him while away. He seemed upset about the friends visits which leads me to believe that he and his wife spoke every night and she never said her male buddy was coming over every night to watch the Olympics.

But we do not know and should not jump to conclusions.

So we wait until BFF returns.


----------



## Wazza

MarriedTex said:


> Hey, maybe they were just watching the Olympics together all week. Yeah, that's it. The Olympics. Love that Michael Phelps!!


You're having an affair with Michael Phelps?????????


----------



## aug

No kids, so move on.


----------



## MattMatt

bff said:


> Thanks for the support! I owe you all a beer, a hug or SOMEthing. You've all already helped more than you can imagine.
> 
> To answer iheartlife - this guy isn't passive and I have a hard time believing he'd hang on that long to something like that. But, you never know - sometimes a rough exterior doesn't tell the whole story. He's not very responsible, and I just yesterday heard from another friend that he's on the rocks with his live-in girlfriend. Go figure. Puzzle pieces that fit are flying in from every direction.


Mine is a Lagunista IPA. Please!


----------



## Wazza

happyman64 said:


> That is why I said to bluff with the video and Var's.
> 
> Again, we do not know what his wife told him while away. He seemed upset about the friends visits which leads me to believe that he and his wife spoke every night and she never said her male buddy was coming over every night to watch the Olympics.
> 
> But we do not know and should not jump to conclusions.
> 
> So we wait until BFF returns.


Based on the information provided I could sit down and come up with perfectly innocent scenarios to explain everything. They aren't necessarily true but they are logical. 

Same with the "she's doing him" scenario. It is logically consistent but not necessarily true.

BFF can talk to her and the friend on the basis of the facts he has, or he can try again for a smoking gun. 

The sad part here is that there is no way to prove that someone ISN'T having an affair, and the process of chasing proof is damaging in itself.


----------



## sandc

Wazza said:


> 7 to 10 is not late night. That could be "come over, watch a movie, keep me company." 7pm to 7am might be a different matter.
> 
> I'm not saying nothing is going on. I'm saying at this stage all BFF has is further proof that they are close. We have a lot of us here who have been cheated on and are ready to think the worst. The worst may be true but it's not proven.


You are right. However, OM has a girlfriend to keep so he can't arouse her suspicions or ire by being gone all night.

Point is that right now, OP's wife has plausible deniability. You need more evidence to remove any plausible deniability she may have.

That is unless you have convinced yourself and are ready to D. Then there is really no more need to put yourself through any more heartache. File for D ASAP.


----------



## MattMatt

What does his GF think of his and your wife's activities?


----------



## Wazza

sandc said:


> You are right. However, OM has a girlfriend to keep so he can't arouse her suspicions or ire by being gone all night.
> 
> Point is that right now, OP's wife has plausible deniability. You need more evidence to remove any plausible deniability she may have.
> 
> That is unless you have convinced yourself and are ready to D. Then there is really no more need to put yourself through any more heartache. File for D ASAP.


I think I read that friend's relationship with girlfriend is in trouble. Maybe it's on the rocks and he needed to talk?

During my sad times I have leaned on friends who were female for support, and some of them have been married to other men. In one case it was a work colleague and the rumour mill went into overdrive that we were doing the deed. Even friends who knew me took me aside and asked what I was up to. I wonder it that was an emotional affair for either of us, but it was certainly never physical.

Wife and best friend may be genuinely very close in a 'just friends" sense, feel that they know bff well and he trusts them, and be totally surprised at all this drama. Friend may have confided things to wife and asked him not to tell bff so she's keeping his confidence, including not mentioning the visits. I don't know. Since I don't know the people it's hard to judge.

Not saying it's all clean. Just saying it could be.


----------



## sandc

Wazza said:


> I think I read that friend's relationship with girlfriend is in trouble. Maybe it's on the rocks and he needed to talk?
> 
> During my sad times I have leaned on friends who were female for support, and some of them have been married to other men. In one case it was a work colleague and the rumour mill went into overdrive that we were doing the deed. Even friends who knew me took me aside and asked what I was up to. I wonder it that was an emotional affair for either of us, but it was certainly never physical.
> 
> Wife and best friend may be genuinely very close in a 'just friends" sense, feel that they know bff well and he trusts them, and be totally surprised at all this drama. Friend may have confided things to wife and asked him not to tell bff so she's keeping his confidence, including not mentioning the visits. I don't know. Since I don't know the people it's hard to judge.
> 
> Not saying it's all clean. Just saying it could be.


Exactly. This is plausible. It may be true, it may not be. There are other explanations as to why OM could have visited BFF's house at this point which is why he needs more evidence.


----------



## Entropy3000

This would be enough evidence for me. But that is just me. He has allowed a lot of things I would not have been ok with go on for a long time and is now acting. he was hoping to put the genie back in the bottle.

She will say nothing happened. She will use this as her justification to leave him and go with the OM. 

Yet again very very liberal boundaries with close opposite sex friends. Not having any leads to this. Meaning if there were proper boundaries in place this would be a smoking gun because it would have crossed a major boundary. Unfaithful by definition. But not having any boundaries she can deny all the way to you walking in on them having sex. Because the default boundary for many is penetration. All else is just fine or at least vague and plausible enough for some.

What he needs to do is to catch her in a lie. he needs to not confront her yet but see if she will lie about the guy coming over. he just needs to figure out how to ask her what she was doing in the evenings.

There are people on TAM that think it is fine for an unmarried guy to spend time with a married woman in the evening or even overnight while her husband is on a trip. To drink, cuddle, share intimacies and so on.

So his wife will need to claim this kind of openess in her marriage. But yes she will deny and blame him. He will be jealous, insecure and controlling. A bad husband and a bad friend. Yup.


----------



## Jibril

Thinking on this more, I agree with Entropy3000. What you need to do, Bff, is catch her in a lie. 

If she denies OM's nightly visits, you know they were at it. Considering how close they are, she would have no reason to lie about his visits.

Maybe ask her what she has been doing these last few days while you were away. Who she hung out with. Who came over. What your "friend" has been doing. How his girlfriend has been doing. If she doesn't bring up the fact that he's been coming over between 7 and 10, well. That says it all, really.

I'm sure you can get clever with the questions to get to the answer you want. The trick is to be subtle, so she doesn't suspect that you know something.

Once she blows it, get in touch with OM's girlfriend ASAP and expose like it's going out of style.


----------



## bff

Hey gang,

I really do appreciate all the advice, but the point has come where I need to make my own way. This is all the evidence I need. I don't NEED evidence of sex, penetration or anything else like that. What I have evidence of is a prolonged deception, lying to my face, joking about me behind my back and now visits while I'm out of town. The decision is now made. Divorce.

I've already got a call in to the attorney. Trying to arrange for a meeting tomorrow. Also trying to arrange to talk to a therapist tomorrow. Hoping I can do the confrontation and get started on my new reality and new life this weekend. I know this is far, far, far from being finished, but the first step is often the hardest, and I honestly now can't wait to get this out in the open. I f*&king hate sneaking around, even if it is to catch a liar. That's just not me.

Once this is out in the open, I'll share a lot more details with you all that will blow your minds. Stay tuned.


----------



## Jibril

Oh? Well, say no more. It sounds like you know a _lot_ more than you have let on.

In any case, you have my support and best wishes. Good luck, and keep us posted.


----------



## aug

bff said:


> Hey gang,
> 
> I really do appreciate all the advice, but the point has come where I need to make my own way. This is all the evidence I need. I don't NEED evidence of sex, penetration or anything else like that. What I have evidence of is a prolonged deception, lying to my face, joking about me behind my back and now visits while I'm out of town. The decision is now made. Divorce.
> 
> ...
> 
> Once this is out in the open, *I'll share a lot more details with you all that will blow your minds. * Stay tuned.



The bold is probably why you have the strength of conviction to move on. No kids -- easier to move on.


----------



## sandc

10-4 bff. Let us now how it goes.


----------



## bff

Well, unfortunately most of the shocking details are more around my situation than in the evidence camp. Nonetheless, the plot is thicker than I've revealed.

Thanks again for the support. Appointment with attorney tomorrow at 11am.


----------



## happyman64

Just take care of yourself BFF.


----------



## Caribbean Man

keko said:


> Damn. What kind of a friend does that.




That's why I believe every man ought to be careful of the type of 
" friends " he keeps,
Especially when he's married.


----------



## Ansley

Im very sorry that it turned out this way. With vidoe information I dont know who I would confront first..the wife..the OM girlfriend or call the "friend" up and ask what he was up to all week. This is absolutley disgusting. Im proud of you for not making excuses for her and being man enough to see the truth. When all is said and done...you will be much happier and its her loss. Big time loss. 

As for the "friend" he better learn a skill and learn how to work...she is used to nice things and a roof over her head---probably to much responsibility for him


----------



## Caribbean Man

bff said:


> Hey gang,
> 
> I really do appreciate all the advice, but the point has come where I need to make my own way. This is all the evidence I need. I don't NEED evidence of sex, penetration or anything else like that. What I have evidence of is a prolonged deception, lying to my face, joking about me behind my back and now visits while I'm out of town. The decision is now made. Divorce.
> 
> I've already got a call in to the attorney. Trying to arrange for a meeting tomorrow. Also trying to arrange to talk to a therapist tomorrow. Hoping I can do the confrontation and get started on my new reality and new life this weekend. *I know this is far, far, far from being finished, but the first step is often the hardest, *and I honestly now can't wait to get this out in the open. I f*&king hate sneaking around, even if it is to catch a liar. That's just not me.
> 
> Once this is out in the open, I'll share a lot more details with you all that will blow your minds. Stay tuned.


"...*A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step*..."
Lao-tzu, The Way of Lao-tzu
Chinese philosopher (604 BC - 531 BC)


----------



## Ansley

After you talk to the lawyer and figure out your game plan I would make some courtesy calls....mainly to her family and the POS friends girlfriend. Trust me when this blows up his first move will be to keep everything smooth with his girlfired...your wifes first move will be to let her family know how "wronged" she has been.
You're awesome---keep it up!


----------



## bff

I've now got attorney and psychotherapist appointments for tomorrow. Tonite I've got a buddy who knows what is going on to go have dinner with. I'm setting my path. I'm steeling myself for the worst.

I need to decide the "order" of who to talk to and how to do this. I think I agree with the others that I will give her the courtesy of asking her what went on this weekend, because when she lies straight to my face AGAIN, it will be that much easier to tell her that she's made her bed, now she gets to lie in it.

One of the other details - we just closed on a new house a few weeks ago. What was I doing this past weekend? MOVING! Yes, that's right, while I was tortured about all of this I was moving "us" into a huge new house. I had OM and my buddy over for drinks on "our" new deck Friday night. I'm a real glutton for punishment. The thin silver lining? She's been bending over backwards to redecorate and remodel our old house so we can sell it. Little does she know that either she or I will be living in that other house in a few days.

So there's one more disclosure. Trust me, the next one is going to turn your collective stomachs even more than this.


----------



## iJordan

bff said:


> I think I agree with the others that I will give her the courtesy of asking her what went on this weekend, because when she lies straight to my face AGAIN, it will be that much easier to tell her that she's made her bed, now she gets to lie in it.


If you ask her what she was up to whilst you were away and her story doesn't corroborate with the video evidence, then you should absolutely drop the bomb. 

To be honest, the fact that she had her phone set to delete her communications with him would be all I needed to know. With everything else thrown into the mix, I'd be confident in my dismissal of circumstantial claims.


----------



## KanDo

bff,

I am glad you have come to a decision. For many, fear keeps them from moving forward. I hope you are more successful in getting her out of the house. I had to endure months with her residing in MY home! Take the advice of your attorney to heart. He may recommend more snooping if you are in a for cause state or there are property divisions advantages to proving infidelity.

Good luck. I know how hard it is to feel betrayed. We are here to offer support.


----------



## Shaggy

Are you going to sleep at home tonight or stay out ll night and let her worry?


----------



## girlfromipanema

Bff, been following along and hoping for the best for you. I'm so sorry. My husband and my "friend" did same to me. Right in front of me, all the while denying, denying. It sucks. You seem so strong, and while I hate that you are hurting, the one I truly pity is your wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Don'tknowwhattothink

bff said:


> I've now got attorney and psychotherapist appointments for tomorrow. Tonite I've got a buddy who knows what is going on to go have dinner with. I'm setting my path. I'm steeling myself for the worst.
> 
> I need to decide the "order" of who to talk to and how to do this. I think I agree with the others that I will give her the courtesy of asking her what went on this weekend, because when she lies straight to my face AGAIN, it will be that much easier to tell her that she's made her bed, now she gets to lie in it.
> 
> One of the other details - we just closed on a new house a few weeks ago. What was I doing this past weekend? MOVING! Yes, that's right, while I was tortured about all of this I was moving "us" into a huge new house. I had OM and my buddy over for drinks on "our" new deck Friday night. I'm a real glutton for punishment. The thin silver lining? She's been bending over backwards to redecorate and remodel our old house so we can sell it. Little does she know that either she or I will be living in that other house in a few days.
> 
> *So there's one more disclosure. Trust me, the next one is going to turn your collective stomachs even more than this.*


Is she pregnant?


----------



## lovelygirl

Wazza said:


> Wife and best friend may be genuinely very close in a 'just friends" sense, feel that they know bff well and he trusts them, and be totally surprised at all this drama.


Please.....

They are just friends who keep company to each other every night for 3 and a half hours?


----------



## Ansley

_QUOTE bff: One of the other details - we just closed on a new house a few weeks ago. What was I doing this past weekend? MOVING! Yes, that's right, while I was tortured about all of this I was moving "us" into a huge new house. I had OM and my buddy over for drinks on "our" new deck Friday night. I'm a real glutton for punishment. The thin silver lining? She's been bending over backwards to redecorate and remodel our old house so we can sell it. Little does she know that either she or I will be living in that other house in a few days._


W T H !!! She doesnt deserve 1 day at the new house or 1 more day at the old house. I can not believe these people. Has your other buddy (the one not stabbing you in the back) offered any insight?


----------



## Ansley

lovelygirl said:


> Please.....
> 
> They are just friends who keep company to each other every night for 3 and a half hours?


Yeah these late in the game posts "_they could be watching the Olympics" "you need more proof" "You never know it could be nothing" "You need more evidence_" 

The situation is way past that. There is something going on and has been for along time. Because OP doesnt want to hear/see a bedroom tape doesnt mean he isnt fully aware of the situation. The drinking from each others cup and 6 phone calls a day would be enough for some people. The video of the "friends" care in the driveway every night while OP was away is sick. Funny how he doesnt visit like that when husband is home!


----------



## Chaparral

Ansley said:


> Yeah these late in the game posts "_they could be watching the Olympics" "you need more proof" "You never know it could be nothing" "You need more evidence_"
> 
> The situation is way past that. There is something going on and has been for along time. Because OP doesnt want to hear/see a bedroom tape doesnt mean he isnt fully aware of the situation. The drinking from each others cup and 6 phone calls a day would be enough for some people. The video of the "friends" care in the driveway every night while OP was away is sick. Funny how he doesnt visit like that when husband is home!


How often does the bff/OM visit you and your wife at home?

I don't understand her trying to get pregnant with you. Is she really trying to get pregnant by you? How do you know this?

Its hard to believe they are so in love but haven't ditched you. You think its for your money?


----------



## snap

The OP sounds well off and his wife does not hold a real job. Money has to be at least part of the equation.


----------



## DailyGrind

Ansley said:


> Yeah these late in the game posts "_they could be watching the Olympics" "you need more proof" "You never know it could be nothing" "You need more evidence_"
> 
> The situation is way past that. There is something going on and has been for along time. Because OP doesnt want to hear/see a bedroom tape doesnt mean he isnt fully aware of the situation. The drinking from each others cup and 6 phone calls a day would be enough for some people. The video of the "friends" care in the driveway every night while OP was away is sick. Funny how he doesnt visit like that when husband is home!


@Ansley - I don't think anyone was seriously suggesting that was all that was going on. Rather we were saying these are the things a WW would say, when confronted. They come out with the damndest things. You SO want to believe them...and they can take advantage of that. You really should have ironclad evidence when confronting....it alleviates your mind from the strong will to believe. You aren't trying to convince the WS....you are trying to overcome your instinct to believe.


----------



## bff

Thanks once again, everyone, for bringing and sharing your perspectives. I know everyone is trying to help, and I appreciate it.

An admission - I've "bent" a few of the facts about myself and my W in order to keep this thread from resonating too closely with someone who knows me, but at this point I sort of don't give a crap anymore.

The truth is that W has a real job, probably makes about $85k a year. I make 3 times that. So there is a big disparity and I'm going to end up paying her part of that difference for at least a few years, I'm sure. 

I'm growing increasingly comfortable with my decision. All of my anxiety now is just about the mechanics of telling her and then having to be in her presence as either she or I move out of the new house and into the other house. I have a feeling she isn't going to be very, uh, cooperative.


----------



## Jellybeans

Dang. I wish you could get a VAR recording...


----------



## Almostrecovered

just a reminder



Almostrecovered said:


> altho, I don't think you'll need this advice I will state it anyways as BS's always surprise me with self-denial (and I've been there myself so I understand)
> 
> 
> 
> When you do get proof and considering it will be verbal (unless you get a recording of them having sex) you need to be very aware of trickle truth, gaslighting and blameshifting during confrontation
> 
> be cognizant that...
> you will want to believe her lies (they trickle truth and admit only to what you can prove)
> you will want to accept blame of the problems in the marriage leading to her cheating
> 
> fight these urges and stand strong, her cheating is not your fault and you can't believe her unless you can verify it


----------



## Shaggy

Did you have a var in her car?


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

Shaggy said:


> Did you have a var in her car?


I think his VAR is found out by OM and his wife and they may have turned it off. May be that they found VAR the change in password.

Place one VAR on her car.

You don't have much evidence to confront her, if you do it now she will definitely gaslight you and make you paranoid.


----------



## Almostrecovered

the password wasn't changed, the site was designed to detect a different IP and asked a security question- bff confirmed this


----------



## cabin fever

Agreeed. I don't think they have any clue. 

When I log into my accounts from different PC's I always get the password question too. 

Not sure why the VAR didn't work in the Bedroom, but they either didn't go in there, or it was malfunctioning. 

If they were on to you knowing, they wouldn't be talking nonstop on the phone.


----------



## Shaggy

I think when setting up such traps you should have a backup var in place.


----------



## Shaggy

It could also be they used a different bedroom,


----------



## warlock07

> The truth is that W has a real job, probably makes about $85k a year. I make 3 times that. So there is a big disparity and I'm going to end up paying her part of that difference for at least a few years, I'm sure.


Alimony even if there are no kids?


----------



## Almostrecovered

most states don't have alimony when both spouses work, you usually split assets, perhaps some negotiation on how they are split


----------



## iheartlife

I find alimony when she earns $85K hard to believe, but then I'm not a divorce lawyer.


----------



## MarriedTex

bff said:


> Thanks once again, everyone, for bringing and sharing your perspectives. I know everyone is trying to help, and I appreciate it.
> I have a feeling she isn't going to be very, uh, cooperative.


I'm getting the feeling, BFF, that something more is at work here than just the interaction with the best friend. After laying all of this groundwork, you don't really have the definitive proof. Yet, you seem very anxious to pull the trigger and have us all here in cyberspace cheering you on in the process. I'm getting the sense that you may want her out for other reasons. Don't know what they are, but something's up here.

What would Mrs. BFF say is your greatest failing? You don't pull don $250 K without have some pressures/demands on the work side. Would she contend that you neglect her? Just wondering.

Do you have any candidates in mind for replacing Mrs. BFF if/when she does move out. How do you envision your life looking 18 months from now if you proceed with a split? I know you're dealing with the affair issues right now, and that's the priority. Just trying to see what other factors may be influencing you to pull the trigger so quickly after such a methodical approach to your untenable situation.


----------



## Unsure in Seattle

Regardless of definitive proof, the "friend" is far, far too involved with the wife.


----------



## warlock07

MarriedTex said:


> I'm getting the feeling, BFF, that something more is at work here than just the interaction with the best friend. After laying all of this groundwork, you don't really have the definitive proof. Yet, you seem very anxious to pull the trigger and have us all here in cyberspace cheering you on in the process. I'm getting the sense that you may want her out for other reasons. Don't know what they are, but something's up here.
> 
> What would Mrs. BFF say is your greatest failing? You don't pull don $250 K without have some pressures/demands on the work side. Would she contend that you neglect her? Just wondering.
> 
> Do you have any candidates in mind for replacing Mrs. BFF if/when she does move out. How do you envision your life looking 18 months from now if you proceed with a split? I know you're dealing with the affair issues right now, and that's the priority. Just trying to see what other factors may be influencing you to pull the trigger so quickly after such a methodical approach to your untenable situation.



Read his last few posts. he said there were some more revelations that he hasn't shared yet.


----------



## Unsure in Seattle

And I hope that the logical revelation is not what I expect (i.e. she's pregnant).


----------



## bff

Good and fair questions, Tex.

I've got nothing going on on the side. No "candidates". I figure 18 months from now I'll still be visiting a therapist trying to figure how out how to trust anyone after the two closest people in my life were living a double life they designed to keep me out of for the last 5-6 years.

My greatest failing? Failure to communicate my needs is definitely one of them. I've absolutely contributed to allowing this to happen by not speaking up when I saw all the signs for years.

Travel for work goes in spurts - I travel a couple days a week probably two weeks a months. Some months I don't travel at all. I'm always home by 7pm and work from home on most Fridays. I've always been there for her. I have a stressful job, but I'm definitely not a workaholic. W has supported all of my career decisions along the way. That's NEVER been a topic of argument or disagreement for us.

Not being able to "give her a child" added a ton of tension to our marriage, for sure. But, to be specific, the issues weren't with the sperm, so I can't believe she's just getting back at me for that.

I've also probably let myself go a little - I'm probably 25-30lbs heavier than I should be, but I weigh maybe 15lbs more than when she met me.

I do feel guilt about the rush I'm getting from actually having a supportive group of people here "cheering me on". But I think if you read the whole thread, you'll see that I've been the first to say that many of the suggestions where too over the top.

You think I have very little evidence? I have proof that my wife has been lying to me every single day for at least a year and is secretly spending 3+ hours a day with a another man in our house while I'm out of town - lying to me about what she was doing while I was gone. I have evidence of her calculated deceit. I don't know where your bar lies for "evidence", but this where my own personal comfort zone ends. I don't care if they're screwing or doing needlepoint. It's the ongoing deceit. I'd never trust her again.

Send me a PM and I'll send you all the notes I wrote on the plane yesterday where I was trying to work out a reconciliation plan, as I really didn't expect to find evidence of him coming to our house.


----------



## Jellybeans

Yeah I do think you have too "little" evidence. Granted, you've got evidence, just not the smoking gun. And w/o the smoking gun, you don't have jack. Cause she will minimize it to hell and back. 

Did you ask her what she was doing on the evenings he was at your house? "Wife, did you do anythin in the evenings when I was gone?"


----------



## bff

And for the record, my father cheated on my mother for a year, lying to her face about his whereabouts and activities, before leaving her for another woman. This all happened when I was in 3rd grade.

Maybe that makes me a little less tolerant of a lying, cheating spouse? I'll own that.


----------



## Shaggy

Why don't you casually make some comment to the OM gf to find out where he claims to have been those nights?

You could say something like I was trying to reach Dave the other night but he didn't respond, where the two of you out doing something? This will prompt her to fill in the detail of where they both hpw were.

Or is she in on it too?


----------



## lovelygirl

BFF, if you think you have enough evidence [and I think you do] there's no need to convince anyone of us about that.
The decision is all yours. You don't even need to show her the evidence you have, no matter if it's half or full evidence.
You have the right to D her right away without giving too much info about what you know regarding those two. 

No matter how much your cheating spouse will be able to minimize the truth. Deep in your heart and brain you know she's crossed many bounderies. 
That should be enough for you.


----------



## bff

I called her every single night (which I always do every time I'm traveling for work). She told me that she was doing stuff in the new house, unpacking this or that. She definitely accounted for all her time, and "Oh, your friend is here helping me," never came up.

I think I even posted throughout the week that I really didn't think he was coming over because she sounded so busy doing house stuff and accounted for all of her time.

Too little evidence for what, exactly? I don't have to prove anything to anyone but myself. As as Tex has already pointed out, this affair clearly isn't the only problem. If we had an otherwise completely awesome relationship, it wouldn't be so "easy" for me to make this decision.

And, so you all don't have to keep waiting for the other big revelation, we're in the middle of an adoption. So there's a 3rd party (birth mother) involved, and THAT is the biggest disappointment in all of this from my perspective. I'm maddest at my W for moving forward with that process and involving a completely innocent person while SHE knew that our relationship was a sham.


----------



## Jellybeans

Too little to confront. ALL she will say is that "Oh yeah, he did come over. I didn't think it was important to mention it since you know, we're all friends. Why are you getting defensive? Omg... are you jealous? What? Honey if I thought it was important I would have told you. I will def let you know next time. Besides It's not like I lied to you. I told you I was cleaning up around the house. Bff was helping me do that."

100% this is what she's going to say to you.

Unless you have actual SMOKING GUN PROOF (those VARS, dangit) or pictures, she is going to minimize every single thing. 

*Promise.*

Re: adoption--you REALLY need to get that VAR set up and fast somewhere where she talks.... you need to do it STAT. FOR REAL!


----------



## Complexity

bff said:


> I do feel guilt about the rush I'm getting from actually having a supportive group of people here "cheering me on". But I think if you read the whole thread, you'll see that I've been the first to say that many of the suggestions where too over the top.


BFF, none of us have anything invested in your relationship nor the fallout that you'll incur, both financial and emotional from the decision to divorce. This decision should be primarily yours to proceed with and who knows, maybe next week you'll come back and tell us that you're reconciling. Whatever you do next, do so with careful planning and deep thought. You're in no rush.


----------



## bff

VARs are illegal in my state. I'd never do that.

I think I need a little break from all of this. The variety of feedback is really starting to confuse me. 

I'm meeting with a therapist today. I think I'm going to work with that person, my family and my close friends on the next steps.

I'll report back as there's progress.

Thanks, everyone.


----------



## Jellybeans

Ok. So handle this as best as you see fit.

I can tell you though, rest ASSURED, she is going to say everything I typed up there.


----------



## MarriedTex

bff said:


> I called her every single night (which I always do every time I'm traveling for work). She told me that she was doing stuff in the new house, unpacking this or that. She definitely accounted for all her time, and "Oh, your friend is here helping me," never came up.
> 
> I think I even posted throughout the week that I really didn't think he was coming over because she sounded so busy doing house stuff and accounted for all of her time.
> 
> Too little evidence for what, exactly? I don't have to prove anything to anyone but myself. As as Tex has already pointed out, this affair clearly isn't the only problem. If we had an otherwise completely awesome relationship, it wouldn't be so "easy" for me to make this decision.
> 
> And, so you all don't have to keep waiting for the other big revelation, we're in the middle of an adoption. So there's a 3rd party (birth mother) involved, and THAT is the biggest disappointment in all of this from my perspective. I'm maddest at my W for moving forward with that process and involving a completely innocent person while SHE knew that our relationship was a sham.


BFF,

Thanks for the thoughtful, reasoned reply. Not accusing you of anything at all. Just trying to help you think this through. You have been much more measured, rationale than I could have been in similar circumstances. The majority of us would have called her out once noticing the calling pattern between best friend and wife. 

You got this 98% nailed. But with that extra 2% of uncertainty, she's going to turn the tables on you in some way you don't expect. It will turn your internal certainty into some doubt and will cloud your way forward.

If you've been living with this for months, what's another couple of weeks? Create a last-minute "emergency" trip for next week and try the VARs again. A couple of more days could save you from a lifetime of nagging uncertain doubt if she successfully gaslights you. 

Go see a lawyer today. Get the ducks in a row. But continue monitoring for just a bit longer before lowering the boom. It will be a rough weekend, but could do wonders for salvaging the rest of your life. Good luck.


----------



## Shaggy

bff said:


> VARs are illegal in my state. I'd never do that.
> .


Wait what do you mean by you won't do that? I though you had VARs in her car and in the house.


----------



## lovelygirl

Jellybeans said:


> *Too little to confront. ALL she will say is that "Oh yeah, he did come over. I didn't think it was important to mention it since you know, we're all friends. Why are you getting defensive? Omg... are you jealous? What?* Honey if I thought it was important I would have told you. I will def let you know next time. Besides It's not like I lied to you. I told you I was cleaning up around the house. Bff was helping me do that."
> 
> 100% this is what she's going to say to you.
> 
> Unless you have actual SMOKING GUN PROOF (those VARS, dangit) or pictures, she is going to minimize every single thing.
> 
> *Promise.*
> 
> Re: adoption--you REALLY need to get that VAR set up and fast somewhere where she talks.... you need to do it STAT. FOR REAL!


Why do you guys keep on telling him there's little evidence?
He doesn't have to confront her with anything.
Does it really matter what she says after all? 
As long as it's enough for him then that's what matters.


----------



## MarriedTex

Here's why you need more evidence and why it would be good to quiz best friend's girlfriend.

What if best friend AND his girlfriend both came over to help in household set-up all those nights? Extremely unlikely, granted. But, what if? Does video show best friend going into / leaving house alone? 

What happens if this version turns out to be the truth? Best friend helping you set up homestead and then you accuse him of hitting on wife. Again, it would be beyond naive to think in this way. I'm not saying it's what actually went down. But there is that 2% chance that it happened that way. 

With wife, best friend, adoption all hanging in the balance, keep collecting evidence until you have the absolute proof. You've come this far. Just push for a little bit more. Hang in there. I am rooting for you to find the truth that will help you make your life decisions easier to make.


----------



## Jellybeans

lovelygirl said:


> Why do you guys keep on telling him there's little evidence?


Because many of us feel there is a smoking gun yet.

They don't call is a Script for nothing.


----------



## DailyGrind

Shaggy said:


> Wait what do you mean by you won't do that? I though you had VARs in her car and in the house.


Yeah...that confused me too. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MarriedTex

lovelygirl said:


> Why do you guys keep on telling him there's little evidence?
> He doesn't have to confront her with anything.
> Does it really matter what she says after all?
> As long as it's enough for him then that's what matters.


BFF doesn't need to confront her with anything. I agree. He needs to be absolutely certain of the truth for his own piece of mind moving forward. 

If he was going to confront regarding spending excessive time together, that's something he should have done when he first noticed the phone logs.


----------



## Will_Kane

When you confront her, just tell her that you found out about her long SECRET relationship with the other man and that is why you are divorcing her.

Don't tell her how you found out or how you know anything else. Don't tell her what you know and what you don't know.

Tell her it's none of her business how you found out about her SECRET relationship, just that your found out, that it is UNACCEPTABLE, and that you're getting a divorce.


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## bff

I mean that now that I understand VARs are illegal, I don't want to use them any more. I've destroyed all those recordings. Under no circumstances am I going to put myself in jeopardy of a felony and ruin the rest of my life. If my attorney tells me that putting them in my own house is OK, then I very may well take the advice to hold off and gather evidence beyond ANY doubt. I honestly think I've already got more than enough evidence for beyond REASONABLE doubt.

I don't know OM's girlfriend. She was at one party that my W and I were at. OM didn't introduce us and as soon as my W saw she was there, my W wanted to leave. This was 5 years ago. I thought it was really strange, but again, I stuck my head back in the sand. His girlfriend is completely left out of the relationship that OM has with both my W and I.

The series of pictures of the OM's car in the drive way show just he, himself, getting out of the car. One of the three nights, my W and the OM stand next to each other on our deck for a minute, enjoying the view together. It's a very touching moment/image for me.

Tex, for me personally, there's a huge leap between spending time together on the phone and secret face-to-face meetings. I totally get your point about that 2% doubt eating at me forevermore, and maybe I'll make the decision to try and gather some more. But, honestly, I think I've seen enough and I'm tired of sneaking around myself. I feel like I'm an upcoming episode of Morey Povich.

I guarantee 1000% that if I ask her if she talked to my friend this week, she'll say no. If I ask if she's SEEN him, she'll say no. The three of us do things together all the time, so there is absolutely positively NO REASON to hide contact with him unless they're doing something they shouldn't be doing.

This isn't about proving anything to anyone. I'm doing what I need to do to put myself in a place where I can have the kind of relationship I want to have with the kind of person I can trust. 

I deserve better.


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## DailyGrind

So then, when will you confront? Does she know you are home? Did you talk last night at all?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

I personally would use the VAR to verify. You don't have to tell your lawyer or the court how you found out about she was cheating if you confirm that.

What would you do if she says he is just a friend and will completely give him up to save the adoption?


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## keko

bff you do deserve better but you only live this moment once, so think through it before deciding what to do or not to do.


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## bff

Seeing attorney today. Depending on what she says, could confront as early as this afternoon or it could be another week or more if "docs have to be filed". If so, then perhaps I will have another emergency trip mid next week and get the actual smoking gun. 

Chapparal - before I saw had evidence that they were getting together face to face behind my back, I think that is a deal I would have considered. But there absolutely no way I'm raising a child (especially taking on SOMEONE ELSE'S CHILD - do you realize how much trust THAT woman is putting in us?????) with someone who has demonstrated that she can live a lie day in and day out for this long. I think it took the shock of seeing that car in the driveway every night I was gone to make me realize this.


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## keko

Until then take care of yourself. Eat and rest well. Distract yourself with hobbies and other activities. Do you have a good friend that you can open yourself to? Or keep an eye on you until you confront your wife?


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## bandit.45

Be patient. 

Think things through.

Don't go off half-c0cked without a plan in place.

Good luck brother!


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## aug

I think basically what you need to do are:

- consult your attorney
- secure your finance
- secure your assets
- remove yourself from any joint debts/loans
- remove yourself from any joint bank accounts
- remove your wife from any life insurance and any other insurance
- change your will

Stop the adoption process. Stop the IVF process. Find a valid excuse to do so -- there's always one.

Gather more evidence if you need to. Hire a PI -- he/she will get all the evidence you need.

You have time to prepare yourself to move on. This has been going on for years. Keep your routine. What's another week or month?


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## aug

Is your sperm used for the birth mother?


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## SadSamIAm

I am with those that think you need more evidence.

But I also think it might be very easy to get what you need. Like you said, ask about whether she talked to the OM while you were away. Something like, "I have been trying to call OM all week and he hasn't been answering. Have you spoken to him?"

If she says, no, then I think that is all you need. If she says, yes, he was actually here helping me with the move, then you are going to need more information. If she is smart, I think she will give the later answer.

I like your idea of taking a pretend business trip right away. 

Best of luck. I feel terrible for you in this situation (wife, bestfriend, new house, adoption). You deserve better!


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## Kallan Pavithran

But i am confused now..........

You are waiting for yrs to see him coming to your home, so that you can D her.

You don't have any proof that they are cheating on you, other than he coming to your home and she not mentioning about it, am I wrong some where?


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## BrockLanders

Kallan Pavithran said:


> But i am confused now..........
> 
> You are waiting for yrs to see him coming to your home, so that you can D her.
> 
> You don't have any proof that they are cheating on you, other than he coming to your home and she not mentioning about it, am I wrong some where?


It doesn't matter at this point. Unless he wants to file divorce under grounds of adultery instead of no-fault, why bother? The two have been sneaking around together and lying about it for YEARS. Whether they've had a PA or not is completely superfluous at this point. His friend and wife are liars who have demonstrated that they have no qualms talking about him behind his back and making him look like a complete fool as his friends see them as a couple hiding in plain sight. 

They have no kids and the outcome of a divorce based on adultery will still leave him with alimony payments. There's no real reason to investigate anymore. His energy should be spent in fixing himself and building his new life.


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## betamale

Destroying evidence is never a good idea. I don't know anything about the law, but have a feeling that withouth physical evidence she could sue you back and your finances might get hurt.


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## MarriedTex

I think it would be instructive to ask wife if she knew anything about best freind's whereabouts, that BFF had been trying to get ahold of him all week. If she lies on that, that pretty much tells you everything you need to know.

A friendly exploratory call with the best friend might be in order before lowering the boom, as well. Heck, get them all to lie to you just one more time for old time's sake. Depending on the depth of their deception, this may help in identifying the closure you need to be sure that they're all just big self-involved liars. 

Please still consider the "emergency" trip next week. Unless something revolves around the adoption deadline, you should take the time to do this absolutely right. Also, on the adoption side, there will be plenty of folks lined up to adopt a new baby. If your situation precludes you from executing on the adoption, there will be a hundred couples behind you wanting to give the baby a home. (This assumes you are not the sperm donor on this, of course.)


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## BrockLanders

betamale said:


> Destroying evidence is never a good idea. I don't know anything about the law, but have a feeling that withouth physical evidence she could sue you back and your finances might get hurt.


Destroying evidence that implicates himself in the commission of a felony is not a good idea? 

Also, realize that very little evidence you collect personally is going to be able to be used in courts as there's been no chain of custody. Evidence collected in these events is simply to uncover the truth, nothing more, nothing less.


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## Baffled01

bff said:


> Seeing attorney today. Depending on what she says, could confront as early as this afternoon or it could be another week or more if "docs have to be filed". If so, then perhaps I will have another emergency trip mid next week and get the actual smoking gun.
> 
> Chapparal - before I saw had evidence that they were getting together face to face behind my back, I think that is a deal I would have considered. But there absolutely no way I'm raising a child (especially taking on SOMEONE ELSE'S CHILD - do you realize how much trust THAT woman is putting in us?????) with someone who has demonstrated that she can live a lie day in and day out for this long. I think it took the shock of seeing that car in the driveway every night I was gone to make me realize this.


I would consider confronting both of them at the same time, since they are both close to you. Maybe invite him over for drinks, loosen them up, present the evidence, show the photos. You can say it was gathered by a PI, you don't want to admit it was obtained by illegal means. My X of ten years ago still thinks I used a PI to catch her cheating, when all I used was a voice recorder on the phone. My lawyer advised me it was illegal, but did say almost every BS did it.


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## keko

BrockLanders said:


> Destroying evidence that implicates himself in the commission of a felony is not a good idea?


Voice recording his home is a felony? 

Did he tap the presidents phone and listened to top secret conversations?

Try more like misdemeanor at the best.


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## tacoma

Kallan Pavithran said:


> But i am confused now..........
> 
> You are waiting for yrs to see him coming to your home, so that you can D her.
> 
> You don't have any proof that they are cheating on you, other than he coming to your home and she not mentioning about it, am I wrong some where?


we all have our own levels of need concerning how much evidence is acceptable ro make whatever move we intend to make.

I myself need hard objective evidence and what BFF has is more than enough.

He apparently agrees
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Unsure in Seattle

Agreed. All of this argument about what's evidence and how much he needs is irrelevant. 

He's made his decision, folks. We should stand behind that.


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## BrockLanders

Baffled01 said:


> I would consider confronting both of them at the same time, since they are both close to you. Maybe invite him over for drinks, loosen them up, present the evidence, show the photos. You can say it was gathered by a PI, you don't want to admit it was obtained by illegal means. My X of ten years ago still thinks I used a PI to catch her cheating, when all I used was a voice recorder on the phone. My lawyer advised me it was illegal, but did say almost every BS did it.


It's not legal for a PI to listen to a conversation he's not part of either. If you had tried to use that BS in court your lawyer would have asked you the name of the PI as to save your ass from both perjuring yourself and performing an illegal wiretap.


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## BrockLanders

keko said:


> Voice recording his home is a felony?
> 
> Did he tap the presidents phone and listened to top secret conversations?
> 
> Try more like misdemeanor at the best.


He mentioned a car in the beginning of the thread. I'm referring to that.


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## Baffled01

BFF, also just me offer my sympathies here. Your wife is quite a deceiver to wholeheartedly pursue this adoption issue and buy a house, the whole time knowing she is involved with this OM.

I know you are probably already aware that if you had aggressively pursued this issue when you first began noticing it (eg: "sorry honey, you walking next to him all the time and not me is just not right, and our other friends are noticing it too.") you might have had a shot at heading this off before it got this far.


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## Ikaika

I know that there are a lot of very knowledgeable and very well meaning folks on here ready to give advice... most of which is based on trying to gather concrete evidence prior to confronting your wife. That is all fine and I do find that to be a credible way to deal with this particular situation. I would like to provide an alternative (which may have already have been presented). It cuts to the chase on what I think is important for you to find out. 

I know you say you are confrontation averse, but now is the time to put that side of you away. You probably should confront your so called best friend. You wife may be good at deflecting the truth, but chances are he is not. Yes, this may end your friendship, but better that than your marriage (if there is anything to salvage there). This needs to be a one on one talk, just you and him, no outside support or interference. Tell him frankly what you suspect and why. Ask him specifically why it is he and your wife have to talk so many times in one day. Ask him for details of the conversation, make him squirm. If you can't do this then I am not convinced you assume your marriage is worth "fighting" for. Don't let him off the hook, keep the conversation on the topic. Here is the thing if it is an EA for her, that is no good for you. You can get the nasty details later about any PA, once you get the truth (if it is an EA) and later confront her what you got as a first hand report from your best friend. 

I really wish you the best. Hang in there, but don't hang too long it is not healthy.


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## AngryandUsed

BFF,

Please see a therapist as soon as possible.
Please see your doctor as soon as possible.

Do you have fall back plan?
You know that she is going to lie and gaslight you. So be prepared for this.

You consider that you don't need to collect any further evidences. OK and NOT OK.


OK- because you know she did not mention to you that your friend was helping her.

NOT OK- because.... many posters before me have said that. Without evidences, she is going to find a way out easily.

What is enough - is upto you to consider and decide.
We all know that she is cheating.

In any case, don't discard the suggestion to see your doctor, and take adequate care of your health.

AU


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## aug

confrontation now is premature. He has to prepare himself financially and emotionally for a separated life.

All confrontation does right now is to allow his wife and his friend to start coming after him.

This has been going on for years. What's a few more weeks?


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## lovelygirl

chapparal said:


> What would you do if *she says *he is just a friend and will completely give him up to save the adoption?


Do you expect her to say he is more than a friend?

Of course she will say he's just a friend. Words remain just words.


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## Entropy3000

Will_Kane said:


> When you confront her, just tell her that you found out about her long SECRET relationship with the other man and that is why you are divorcing her.
> 
> Don't tell her how you found out or how you know anything else. Don't tell her what you know and what you don't know.
> 
> Tell her it's none of her business how you found out about her SECRET relationship, just that your found out, that it is UNACCEPTABLE, and that you're getting a divorce.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

This is the issue.


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## lovelygirl

Kallan Pavithran said:


> You don't have any proof that they are cheating on you, other than he coming to your home and she not mentioning about it, am I wrong some where?


It's how they are treating him that makes it more than a valid reason to want to break up from someone.
There doesn't have to be a physical contact to file for D. 
She might not have cheated at all but the truth is that she has betrayed his trust.


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## BrockLanders

For a little levity on this fine Friday.

Biz Markie - Just A Friend - YouTube


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## sandc

If it's a no fault state bff doesn't have to give his WS any reason. He can just present her with the D papers and say "We're done. Sign here please."


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## Ansley

Bff--what will happen with the adoption?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bff

She doesn't know what I know and what I don't. I plan to question her first about the last week "did you talk to him, I've been trying to reach him" which I know she will deny. Then I'll ask if she has SEEN him this week, which I'm sure she will deny. Then I will sit her down for a serious talk, tell her that I finally need to hear the truth and that only the full truth can possibly save our marriage. Then I will ask a long set of questions, some of which I know the answer to and some I do not. She will not know which ones I know the answer to, mixed in. I suspect she will lie about all of them. If she does come clean or if she says they are just friends, I will listen with an open mind if there is real remorse, accountability and honesty around the ongoing secrecy and it's impact on ME. I suspect I will not hear any of those things, just defensiveness and anger that I'm questioning her.

I now understand all the financial issues, and it is about what I thought. Me just telling her that the marriage is over, that I'm moving out and that I'm going to file for D is enough to put the stake in the ground for any expenditures post that date being her own responsibility, not shared. The divorce petition comes with restraining orders that don't allow her to spend anything out of the norm.
Attorney advised me that any evidence is ONLY for me and my inner peace. The courts in my no fault state could not care less if she did nothing wrong or has been screwing the OM every night for the last 5 years.


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## NaturalHeart

So sorry about this


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## MarriedTex

BFF,

This sounds like solid plan. One last chance for her to come clean. One last chance for confirm if she's on your side or not. 

Will she be blindsided by this? Or have things been rocky enough that she will resent "another inquisition" from you? In short, will she know your intentions from the start? Will she be on alert? Or will she only slowly realize that your talk is turning from a chat to a major discussion with significant long-term implications?


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## keko

Which state were you from?

Keep the VAR on yourself when you confront her incase she decides to call the cops and falsely claim domestic violence on you.


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## Entropy3000

Sorry if I missed it. Is the child to be adopted your biological child? Was she a surrogate mother?


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## Chaparral

Your wife doesn't know you are home yet?


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## SadSamIAm

I keep thinking that you don't have enough evidence. She will deny she has seen him and talked to him. When you tell her you know she is lying, she will say she lied because she wanted to avoid a fight. That she was with him, but they are only friends.

I think you either wait until you have more evidence or bluff that you have more evidence.

Tell her you know what she did all week, because you hired a private investigator. She might just spill her guts. If she calls your bluff, tell her, "How else would I know that he was at our house every night arriving at 7:30 and leaving at 10:30? Tell her she comes clean or the new house and adoption are over.

I prefer waiting for actual evidence that they are cheating. Go on an emergency trip next week. Hire a PI to get pictures of them in the act. It will be money well spent.


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## sandc

SadSamIAm said:


> I keep thinking that you don't have enough evidence. She will deny she has seen him and talked to him. When you tell her you know she is lying, she will say she lied because she wanted to avoid a fight. That she was with him, but they are only friends.
> 
> I think you either wait until you have more evidence or bluff that you have more evidence.
> 
> Tell her you know what she did all week, because you hired a private investigator. She might just spill her guts. If she calls your bluff, tell her, "How else would I know that he was at our house every night arriving at 7:30 and leaving at 10:30? Tell her she comes clean or the new house and adoption are over.
> 
> I prefer waiting for actual evidence that they are cheating. Go on an emergency trip next week. Hire a PI to get pictures of them in the act. It will be money well spent.



He doesn't need any of that. Let him be.


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## SadSamIAm

Sorry sandc, but his history shows that he does.

He has been watching this for years. He hasn't acted because he hasn't had enough evidence. 

She will twist around what he says to make it look like they are only friends. That they have been friends for years and that the OM coming over to help with moving is just more friendship. She will gaslight and put doubt in his mind.


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## Jibril

She's a chronic liar, and the OM has been coming by the house every night Bff was gone, in secret. It doesn't matter if they were having sex or playing Monopoly - Bff knows they have a secret relationship, and now he has conclusive proof. 

It seems that for Bff, that's good enough to divorce her over. I don't disagree. He _could_ go out of his way to catch them in the act, or uncover more about the affair, but at the same time, he doesn't need to witness that drama to know he's been betrayed.

Yes, learning the details may cement his feelings further, but at this point it seems Bff is already confident that he'll divorce.


----------



## Unsure in Seattle

We're past the gathering evidence phase, here. Something is wrong. he knows it and is going to give her one chance to come clean. If he doesn't like what he hears, it's over.

We should be applauding him for his clarity of vision, not harranging him for not satisfying everyone's need for details here on the board. This is not a soap opera, even if it sounds like it.


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## SadSamIAm

I don't want details. I just don't want him to get gas lighted.


----------



## Ansley

SadSamIAm said:


> I don't want details. I just don't want him to get gas lighted.



He wont...she will try...he has done his homework and jumping hurdles that took most of us years to get through. Im proud of him. 

It will suck to be her this weekend though!


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## SadSamIAm

I can hear her now ....

I didn't tell you he was here because I knew you would react this way.

He would never do that to you. I would never do that to you. He is your best friend. He is a nice guy and we get along great, but we are only friends. You are the one I love. You are the one I am starting a family with. You are the one that I am buying a house with. You are my husband, he is only a friend.


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## Jibril

SadSamIAm said:


> I don't want details. I just don't want him to get gas lighted.


The only way that could possibly happen is if she is up-front from the get-go when he approaches her with questions. If she were to walk up and tell Bff -

"Man, I've been so busy working on fixing the house with OM that week you were gone! He came by to help me every night, blah, blah, hoping to surprise you, blah, blah, etc."

- then I can see Bff get thrown off for a bit.

But that won't happen. What will happen is Bff asking her about her week, where OM was, if she saw him, etc. She will, almost undoubtedly, deny that she spent time with him. She will almost certainly not admit that he came over every night. By avoiding the truth, she will unwittingly give herself up. Nothing she says afterwards will change the fact that she was caught in a lie, and is covering up her secret relationship with OM.


----------



## Ansley

I dont even know the woman..yet I was mad at her when I furst started reading...now that I hear the noise about him buying her the new house and they are in the process of adopting a child...OMG! Who in their right mind throws that away?


----------



## SadSamIAm

Jibril said:


> The only way that could possibly happen is if she is up-front from the get-go when he approaches her with questions. If she were to walk up and tell Bff -
> 
> "Man, I've been so busy working on fixing the house with OM that week you were gone! He came by to help me every night, blah, blah, hoping to surprise you, blah, blah, etc."
> 
> - then I can see Bff get thrown off for a bit.
> 
> But that won't happen. What will happen is Bff asking her about her week, where OM was, if she saw him, etc. She will, almost undoubtedly, deny that she spent time with him. She will almost certainly not admit that he came over every night. By avoiding the truth, she will unwittingly give herself up. Nothing she says afterwards will change the fact that she was caught in a lie, and is covering up her secret relationship with OM.


"I didn't tell you he was here because I knew you would react this way."


----------



## Jibril

SadSamIAm said:


> "I didn't tell you he was here because I knew you would react this way."


"And that's why I'm divorcing you."

And that's the end of the conversation.


----------



## SadSamIAm

Jibril said:


> "And that's why I'm divorcing you."
> 
> And that's the end of the conversation.


It just seems to me, that since he has put up with this friendship for so long, she must know how to 'play him'. 

I think one of two things will happen:

1) She will gaslight and he won't know what to believe. He will wish he didn't say anything until he had the 'smoking gun'.

or

2) He will say, "end of conversation". She will beg and plead for him not to leave (which will go on for weeks). He will forever wonder if he made the correct decision.


I don't see her confessing to him about anything unless he can trick her into believing he has more evidence than he actually has.

I wish him the best.


----------



## warlock07

Jibril said:


> The only way that could possibly happen is if she is up-front from the get-go when he approaches her with questions. If she were to walk up and tell Bff -
> 
> "Man, I've been so busy working on fixing the house with OM that week you were gone! He came by to help me every night, blah, blah, hoping to surprise you, blah, blah, etc."
> 
> - then I can see Bff get thrown off for a bit.
> 
> But that won't happen. What will happen is Bff asking her about her week, where OM was, if she saw him, etc. She will, almost undoubtedly, deny that she spent time with him. She will almost certainly not admit that he came over every night. By avoiding the truth, she will unwittingly give herself up. Nothing she says afterwards will change the fact that she was caught in a lie, and is covering up her secret relationship with OM.



What if she says she lied only because she was scared on how OP will react? That she is not having an affair and it was a mistake and she will never do anything like that again?


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## sandc

The what-ifs don't matter. bff has a clear plan and seems clear headed enough to follow through. Now we wait...


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## Entropy3000

SadSamIAm said:


> I can hear her now ....
> 
> *I didn't tell you he was here because I knew you would react this way.*
> 
> He would never do that to you. I would never do that to you. He is your best friend. He is a nice guy and we get along great, but we are only friends. You are the one I love. You are the one I am starting a family with. You are the one that I am buying a house with. You are my husband, he is only a friend.


The bold is not an excuse. It is a statement of infidelity. I lied to you becuase you would object.


My point is that I get where you are coming from but none of that stuff matters. It is obvious gas lighting. He has seen enough IMO.


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## Entropy3000

warlock07 said:


> What if she says she lied only because she was scared on how OP will react? That she is not having an affair and it was a mistake and she will never do anything like that again?


She could say the same even with a video of her riding the OM.


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## TDSC60

Entropy3000 said:


> She could say the same even with a video of her riding the OM.


He has enough solid proof of her constant lies to be confident in his decision.

Edit. Whoops, Didn't mean to hit the quote button. Sorry E3000 this was not in response to your post.


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## iJordan

Entropy3000 said:


> The bold is not an excuse. It is a statement of infidelity. I lied to you becuase you would object.
> 
> 
> My point is that I get where you are coming form but none of that stuff matters. It is obvious gas lighting. he has seen enough IMO.


I agree. I think he has more than enough and his plan is well-thought-out. At this point, any lie or omission isn't to cover up innocuous conversation...


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## AngryandUsed

BFF,

I see your point, your resolve. Fine.

Go ahead. I know you have kept quiet for a long time (and it enabled their affair) and IT IS going to be hard for you to stand this betrayl.

So take care.

If you dont mind keep us posted of the developments.
I am proud of your resolve. Very clean and firm.


AU.


----------



## lovelygirl

warlock07 said:


> What if she says she lied only because she was scared on how OP will react? That she is not having an affair and it was a mistake and she will never do anything like that again?


The OP could answer "Why would you be scared to my reaction if you weren't doing anything wrong?
There's no need to be scared if nothing wrong was happenng.., right honey?"


----------



## Ansley

She will get defensive and possibly even laugh "_are you crazy?" "we are married i wouldnt do that" "omg we just bought a new house" "he isnt even my type" _
When she sees he means business and isnt buying it--she will cave. The 6 phone calls a day and appearing as a couple when the 3 of them are out is bad enough---him being at the house 3 hours a night when BFF is gone---there is no explaining that away.

Very very sad. What's messed up is that the "friend" will be the least affected and go about his miserable life.


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## OldWolf57

bff, if you have enough for you, thats all that matters. it seems some BS here are still the same after all they have been through. They wouldn't believe their WS was doing anything, and excused the evidence they had. Well, some of us don't need smoking guns. Some of us have gut feelings and are no afraid to act on them. We KNOW, 2+2 = 4. 
Bff is the BS, not some **** looking to get a thrill. He is not looking to help some get a lil tiltilation. He is a SOUND Bizman knowing what he know. So get off the guys back guys. BC it took some so long to accept, doesn't mean we all do.


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## Caribbean Man

OldWolf57 said:


> bff, if you have enough for you, thats all that matters. it seems some BS here are still the same after all they have been through. They wouldn't believe their WS was doing anything, and excused the evidence they had. Well, some of us don't need smoking guns. Some of us have gut feelings and are no afraid to act on them. We KNOW, 2+2 = 4.
> *Bff is the BS, not some **** looking to get a thrill. He is not looking to help some get a lil tiltilation. He is a SOUND Bizman knowing what he know. So get off the guys back guys. BC it took some so long to accept, doesn't mean we all do*.


:iagree:

We must remember too that it took him YEARS observing their behaviour to reach to the point of actually posting here.

I believe he has come a very long way , and deserves credit for how he's handling his situation.


----------



## country boy

BFF, 

One thing I did on my DD confrontation was have someone with OM that knew what was happening when I confronted my WW.

OM was a so called very good friend. The day I confronted I had another true friend with OM that knew I was confronting WW. Just as I suspected after confrontation she made an excuse to leave the house. She left her cell with me and stole my 12 year old daughters pre paid phone and called him to warn him I was on to them. She took my daughter to fast food joint, sent her in for food and WW made the call. 

I only got one side of the conversation from my true friend but it was enough to blow my WW’s mind on how I knew what she had done when she returned home. 

The true friend said Om’s face went white and he kept telling my WW that he (country boy) has no proof stop crying, he has no proof and you better not tell him anything. When he got off the phone with my WW my true friend slipped off and gave me a call. 

Not sure if this is possible for you BFF but it helped cement my stance and ended any second guessing.


----------



## bff

It's done. I am very grateful for much of the advice I got here. There's no way I would have been prepared or been strong enough to do what I did this morning without what I learned here. I would have gotten it wrong, and I would be trapped in this situation for who knows how long.

I'll write up the full details of confrontation later today when I'm at a proper keyboard, but the bottom line is that I was able to drag out of her that she had sex with the OM in our new house this week. It's clearly been physical from start to finish. Years.

She is pushing hard for reconciliation, but the path for me is clear. The marriage is over. I'm very happy that I have enough of the truth now to know that it was a PA and not just an EA.

Lots of grieving and rebuilding to do,now.

Please don't flood me with responses about getting finances in order. It's not what I need right now. I'll take care of that on Monday. That being said, I think I will go get my own bank account today. Might be therapeutic.


----------



## bff

Btw, my one indulgence was to text the OM with:

F&$king my wife in my new house? Classy. Don't know how you live with yourself. Later, "Buddy"

I hope that text got to him before my soon-to-be ex-wife called him. I can only image him dropping his coffee and his GF saying, "what's wrong, honey?"


----------



## MarriedTex

So sorry to hear this. Not surprising but still sad to see. At least you know the full truth now.


----------



## aug

Confirmation is a small step towards a better life for you. You'll feel like sh!t for a while, and that's something you'll have to go through.

Read up on the stages of grief when you have time. It'll help you understand what's happening with you and what will happen.


----------



## keko

Years? What a cheap skank.

Expose far and wide to family/friends.


----------



## aug

Oh, forgot to mention the boundaries of the various stages of grief are not clearly defined. You can get a mixture of stages at the same time. And it sounds like you had been going through them already.


----------



## iJordan

I'm sorry to hear this, bff. 

Your handling of this situation has been an exemplar.


----------



## Fvstringpicker

bff said:


> It's clearly been physical from start to finish. Years.





bff said:


> F&$king my wife in my new house? Classy. Don't know how you live with yourself. Later, "Buddy"


In the bright side, its good that you're eradicating these two parasites from your life. Now they can feed off of each other.


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT

We all know what's going on here. Try to break down every aspect of it is useless because two people in an affair don't have thought in their head except about themselves. bff is doing what he needs to do to get all of his ducks in a row. I know we all want to grab a popcorn and read about the confrontation carnage but that will come in time.


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT

bff said:


> Btw, my one indulgence was to text the OM with:
> 
> F&$king my wife in my new house? Classy. Don't know how you live with yourself. Later, "Buddy"
> 
> I hope that text got to him before my soon-to-be ex-wife called him. I can only image him dropping his coffee and his GF saying, "what's wrong, honey?"


Your next one should be to let his GF know exactly what Mr. Classy was doing. Followed by letting everyone around you guys know exactly what your soon to be ex decided to do.


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT

Fvstringpicker said:


> In the bright side, its good that you're eradicating these two parasites from your life. Now they can feed off of each other.


Very true. Not to mention screwing another guy while married disgusting. Doing it in your own house and the bed you share with your husband is depraved. That puts the final nail in any chance of continuing the marriage. How the hell could you live in that house with her after that?


----------



## Shaggy

Now make sure exposé it to the circle of friends today, and if possible the OM GF.


----------



## AngryandUsed

Sad, BFF.

Now that you know it is all physical, and your breaking point is reached.

You were already clear and it is time for you to send her packing.

Dont get into self-medication (drinks).

Read the link titled "Recently betrayed? see your doctor" under AlmostRecovered's signature.


----------



## lovelygirl

Am I the only one who's feeling a sudden happiness because of this divorce?
BFF, you now have the chance to start a new life without IFs and HOWs and all other doubts in your head.


----------



## BrockLanders

She wants R? Insist on a post-nuptual agreement where she gets nada if you divorce. Watch how quickly her tone changes. On the off chance she accepts it I'd sign it and D anyway.


----------



## Fvstringpicker

MAKINGSENSEOFIT said:


> Doing it in your own house and the bed you share with your husband is depraved.


That could explain why BFF picked nothing up on the recorder. His soon to be ex old lady and former best bud were over there, christening the new house.


----------



## keko

BrockLanders said:


> She wants R? Insist on a post-nuptual agreement where she gets nada if you divorce. Watch how quickly her tone changes. On the off chance she accepts it I'd sign it and D anyway.


Post-nup after years of deceit and lies? I don't think so. He deserves much better then that.


----------



## betamale

Kick her out and stop all contact with OM. Don't let him try to explain anything. 

This must hurt a lot, but at least you gain respect and she knows now that her sex fantasy is gone. She needs to leave the house ASAP.


----------



## iJordan

Normally, I stress the pointlessness of being angry at the OM; however, in your case, this is a betrayal from both parties. They both deserve the same consequence.


----------



## Complexity

Wow it's been going on for years?! I'm so sorry BFF. Take care of yourself mate.


----------



## bff

I'm in the "now what?" phase right now. My days were always filled with spending time with either my wife or my former best friend. I don't want to be at the old house on the off chance either one of them comes there. OM has called and texted asking me to call him. No thanks. It would feel great to let loose on him but I'm not going to do that. I've taken the high road every step along the way, and I'm going to continue to do that. I've had a couple of minor break downs this morning. I called a good friend who was betrayed by his wife several years ago. He broke down on the phone, because he knows exactly what I'm going through right now. God, this sucks. This is so not what I wanted....

But, that being said, I am holding my head high. I just went for a walk on the beach, and I'm looking around thinking how much I have to be thankful for. I'm only 43. I'm healthy. I have the love and support of my family. I have great friends who are have already been and will be there for me through all this. I have a great career and a stable financial position. I WILL be OK. I'm getting a chance to start again and find someone who appreciates me and wants MY love. This really is the first day of my new life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## keko

bff, go to your police department and tell them your "buddy" is harassing you, that you're afraid for your life. You could try to get a restraining order on him.


----------



## PBear

keko said:


> bff, go to your police department and tell them your "buddy" is harassing you, that you're afraid for your life. You could try to get a restraining order on him.


Right. Giving false testimony to the police is a great new beginning...

Block his number using your cell company. Or send him a text, saying if he contacts you again, the next messages are going to his GF, his parents, and up on FB.

C


----------



## BrockLanders

keko said:


> Post-nup after years of deceit and lies? I don't think so. He deserves much better then that.


I say this only to protect assets. Why should he pay her after years of betrayal?


----------



## keko

PBear said:


> Right. Giving false testimony to the police is a great new beginning...


Read his post again. He mentioned he doesn't want the chance for OM to show up at his house. One would assume things will get violent pretty quick if he were to approach him don't you think?


----------



## workindad

bff- my heart goes out to you. Understand, you did not lose a best friend... he was most certainly not your friend. As for your wife, she sounds badly broken by your descriptions. 

Good luck to you as you start a new phase. It is a difficult transition to make, but there is happiness and peace on the other side, at least from my experience.

One part of your story does confuse me a little. You spent a lot of time with the friend, but don't seem to know much about his GF. If I were you, I would make a point to know her now and let her know what has been going on. She may have details that you do not, if that is important to you.

All the best
WD


----------



## BrockLanders

keko said:


> Post-nup after years of deceit and lies? I don't think so. He deserves much better then that.


I say this only to protect assets. Why should he pay her after years of betrayal?


----------



## Jibril

PBear said:


> Right. Giving false testimony to the police is a great new beginning...
> 
> Block his number using your cell company. Or send him a text, saying if he contacts you again, the next messages are going to his GF, his parents, and up on FB.


I'd actually do this anyway. Since exposure is the next big thing you need to do alongside getting the divorce paperwork filed, use whatever ammo they give you to expose this affair to everyone you know mutually.

Above all, you should expose to OM's girlfriend, however you can. She's in the same boat you were in a few days ago - not knowing about the infidelity, but no doubt suspecting it. 

Afterwards, move on to family and mutual friends.

Also, I think drafting up a post-nup is a brilliant idea, and one you should pursue if possible, Bff.

I'm sorry about all of this. As scripted and predictable as these affairs are, its always wretched to see them play out. I'm sorry about your wife and friend's betrayal. Keep your head up and stay strong.


----------



## keko

BrockLanders said:


> I say this only to protect assets. Why should he pay her after years of betrayal?


He's already set on divorce, so he'll need to delay it months/years for it to be valid depending on his state laws. Thinking logically, why would his WW give up alimony/assets knowing he's already going to divorce her? He should cut his losses and freely give up some just to get out of this mess quickly.


----------



## Entropy3000

I always stress that both APs should be held accountable. Plenty of culpability to go around. In this case it is only more strongly so because of the friendship.

But this is just yet another example of guys being ok with thieir wives having this type of close relationship with other men. UFB.


----------



## sandc

bff said:


> I'm in the "now what?" phase right now.


That's good. Continue to hold your head high and reflect on the good things in your life. Now as to your soon to be Ex and your Ex best friend. They can't just walk away with nothing. You need to expose this to all your mutual friends. You need to expose to family. You need to expose to fBF's girlfriend. You need to expose to church. 

It really needs to be thermo-nuclear destruction. They deserve no less.


----------



## SomedayDig

I just read your entire thread bff. Man, you should really be proud of the way you've handled yourself. I applaud you!

I don't think I need to wish you good luck at all. I'll only say, it's gonna suck as you go through your emotions. Stay strong. Breathe.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattMatt

Ansley said:


> I dont even know the woman..yet I was mad at her when I furst started reading...now that I hear the noise about him buying her the new house and they are in the process of adopting a child...OMG! Who in their right mind throws that away?


She will not see it that way. She wants more of the yummy, scrummy cake, her husband's love, the new house, the child... 

_"Wheeee! Isn't my life such fun?!"_

But what about your husband, the cuckold?_ 

"Oh, my! Where on Earth has all this fog come from?"_


----------



## MattMatt

MAKINGSENSEOFIT said:


> Your next one should be to let his GF know exactly what Mr. Classy was doing. Followed by letting everyone around you guys know exactly what your soon to be ex decided to do.


_*
You and his GF both need STD/HIV testing ASAP.*_

Because your wife will probably not be the only other woman he was having sex with and as for your wife? Was your ex-friend the only OM in her life?

Oh. Just a random thought... what if you get a text from him saying: "OMG! She lied to me! She told me you wanted her and me to have sex! But she said never to mention it to you, so you could pretend not to know!"?


----------



## MattMatt

keko said:


> bff, go to your police department and tell them your "buddy" is harassing you, that you're afraid for your life. You could try to get a restraining order on him.


I have a horrible suspicion that bff might need to speak with the OM as he might have some useful information for him. 

It's possible that WW tricked OM into helping her cuckold bff.


----------



## Almostrecovered

stay strong bff, if you ever have the time find and read shamwow's threads as he demonstrated that there is indeed a great life after infidelity and divorce, you both have similar dispositions.


----------



## happyman64

Good for you BFF.

You got the truth and now you can move on knowing the truth.

I think your head is in as good a place as it can be.

Worry about the D, property, finances and your STBXW next week.

That mess will still be there.

And surround yourself with your true friends.

And getting yourself tested and letting the POSOM GF know what was going on can only help the situation.

You are in my prayers this weekend buddy.

And definitely read Shamwows thread. AR is right. It is uplifting when D is coming up in your life.

HM64


----------



## MattMatt

happyman64 said:


> Good for you BFF.
> 
> You got the truth and now you can move on knowing the truth.
> 
> I think your head is in as good a place as it can be.
> 
> Worry about the D, property, finances and your STBXW next week.
> 
> That mess will still be there.
> 
> And surround yourself with your true friends.
> 
> And getting yourself tested and letting the POSOM GF know what was going on can only help the situation.
> 
> You are in my prayers this weekend buddy.
> 
> And definitely read Shamwows thread. AR is right. It is uplifting when D is coming up in your life.
> 
> HM64


I think he has a good part of the truth. However, there might be more truths that will either make him nod and say: "Yep! That explains that!"

Or "OMG! Really? Wow! This stuff is even freakier than I thought!"

I would SMS the OM or even talk on the phone just for s**ts 'n' giggles. Besides, he might let slip some useful information.

Then talk with his GF and the relay any relevant parts of that conversation to her.


----------



## bff

Thanks for the support, everyone. Reading this is good for me.

To be clear, I'm not afraid of any sort of threat of violence from the OM. He's been trying to reach me, and I just don't want to talk to him. I also don't want to deal with my W either. I did go back to the house. Pretty depressing going in there - its almost completely empty since we moved out last week. No tv, no plate, cup or fork. Bed but no bedding or pillow. It all sort if hit me that I am REALLY starting from scratch.

My friends have been great. Lots of folks are out of town, but everyone is taking time on the phone with me.

Next week will be tough - coming home from the office to an empty house, dinner for one, etc. be an adjustment. But, I'll find my little reminders that will help keep me focused: new beginning, new beginning, new beginning.

And yes, I will go get checked for hiv/std. That will be a sad appointment to make, but it is worth it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Fvstringpicker

bff said:


> Next week will be tough - coming home from the office to an empty house, dinner for one, etc. be an adjustment.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The stark reality my friend is that you've been coming home to an empty house for a long time. At least you're not going to be used by these two sociopaths anymore. As bad as it feels, be glad it didn't go on another couple of years before you found out. You have to find some solace in knowing the party's over for these two and they'll be paddling their own boat for a change. 
One flaw in this world is that cheating, slu**y women look similar to good, loyal women. A man never knows what his getting until he committed his heart and soul.


----------



## Complexity

bff, when you get the time I'd love to know what her reaction was.


----------



## MattMatt

Complexity said:


> bff, when you get the time I'd love to know what her reaction was.


And the reaction of the GF, too. She could need the STD/HIV tests, too...


----------



## jh52

BFF -- I know this is obvious but with everything going on -- don't forget about the adoption that was in progress.


----------



## Shaggy

And for heavens sake warn the other friends about what a pair of liars the two of them are.


----------



## the guy

I went thru the double betrayal, hell when I 1st confronted fWW about her current OM I actually called "good friend" to cry on his shoulder.
It wasn't until I came back home a day after the whole "head clearing" period that I told my wife about the convo with said friend....thats when I got the "he's not that good of friend as you think" from my fWW.

So brother you are not along, even though the phone records show a short affair said "friend" it was the other 19 OM for the past 13 years that f^cked me up.

Any way you my friend are no were near alone with regards to this sh*8ty brotherhood we call double betrayal.

BTW you handled it well and I suggest other can learn from guys like us that take the time to get the real answers, no matter how painful they are. In these cases it gave us the confirmation and validation to take the next step. A confidence many need, by listening to or watching the painful reality.

I think deniel can be very powerful, it it takes the good folks here at TAM to help us thru.


----------



## the guy

Yes please share your STBXW reaction to the confrontation.

So she wants to R...why?

She admits to PA for years....why?

How much blameshifting was involved?

How did you shut down the blame shufting?

How much deniel did you get and what did it take to get an admission?

Did you mix in some bull crap along with what you knew as fact?


----------



## the guy

never mind about the why? you make more money and OM hasn't got sh*t.


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT

There's zero reason to talk to the OM. What's he going to say? I'm sorry? It just happened? There's no need to allow that piece of trash to try and cleanse his soul. The next conversation should be with his GF.


----------



## Ansley

MAKINGSENSEOFIT said:


> There's zero reason to talk to the OM. What's he going to say? I'm sorry? It just happened? There's no need to allow that piece of trash to try and cleanse his soul. The next conversation should be with his GF.



Because they were supposed to be friends....best friends... Telling his girlfriend wont make him break a sweat. He doesnt value people.


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT

Ansley said:


> Because they were supposed to be friends....best friends... Telling his girlfriend wont make him break a sweat. He doesnt value people.


Yes, but you help that girl get away from this piece of garbage. You also let him have to deal with whatever she decides to do. In regards to not having value for people you're right. That's why it would be useless to talk to him.


----------



## MattMatt

MAKINGSENSEOFIT said:


> There's zero reason to talk to the OM. What's he going to say? I'm sorry? It just happened? There's no need to allow that piece of trash to try and cleanse his soul. The next conversation should be with his GF.


I agree, he needs to speak to the GF.

But what if, when he speaks to the OM, the OM will either give him some useful information or let slip a useful fact?

If he does speak to him, what has he got to lose?


----------



## MattMatt

MAKINGSENSEOFIT said:


> Yes, but you help that girl get away from this piece of garbage. You also let him have to deal with whatever she decides to do. In regards to not having value for people you're right. That's why it would be useless to talk to him.


:iagree:


----------



## aug

At the old house? Why should you be in the old house? Stay at the new house. Let your cheating wife stay at the old house.

If she wants the new house, she should take over the mortgage and title and pay you out your portion.


----------



## MattMatt

aug said:


> At the old house? Why should you be in the old house? Stay at the new house. Let your cheating wife stay at the old house.
> 
> If she wants the new house, she should take over the mortgage and title and pay you out your portion.


Depends where he feels more comfortable, I suppose?


----------



## the guy

Don't tell Om or WW and expose to OMGF. she diserves to know and this action will show you how remorseful and how committed yout WW is to R.

Even though it don't matter OMGF needs to see the train wreck that is coming her way, she needs to know the why ..the why in knowing were her relationship has been going.

Plus it would be sweet to see OM dumb your STBXW to save his own relationaship. Don't be suprised it happens.


----------



## aug

the guy said:


> Plus it would be sweet to see OM dumb your STBXW to save his own relationaship. Don't be suprised it happens.



Probably the OM will stay with the WW. After all, the WW does make quite a decent salary, $85K.


----------



## warlock07

> I'll write up the full details of confrontation later today when I'm at a proper keyboard, but the bottom line is that I was able to drag out of her that she had sex with the OM in our new house this week. It's clearly been physical from start to finish. Years.


I felt like I was punched in the gut after reading this. Stay strong OP. I have nothing else to say that can make you feel better.


----------



## OldWolf57

bff, our prayers are with you man.

I think for now you just needs to grieve. You have lost a life. So grieving is the next stage of the process. I'm glad you are not into the anger stage yet, but it will come no matter how rational you try to be, so be aware of it. The double betrayal from two ppl you love is a hurt that will bring you down low, as you can see from just the lil you have expeirence so far.
Take your time and stay dark to those 2 parasites. You have a NEW LIFE to lay out. You can still have the kids without all the drama and deceit.

There is NOTHING these parasites can say to forgive the way they totally betrayed your love for them. NOTHING. Let the lawyer do the talking.
I do feel that that lilperson you used to call a friend will try to approach you. But nothing he can say will excuse the dirt he threw on your marriage. So just beware of him trying. From reading yor posts, I bet you did a lot for him, and he don't want to lose your wallet. you see how he repay. There is nothing a person like that can say or do to enrich your life. So think ahead how you will handle him coming up to you.
What I can't believe is the gall of that woman. After the years of living a double life, she expect you to just overlook the the total disdain and disrespect she brrought into your house and bed. This woman SERIOUSLY needs some counseling.

For now, just take it 1 day at a time. Do the lil things that need doing that will make your living arrangments as comfortable as possible. Nothing is going to take the mind movies away, but by keeping you hands busy, you can at least not get stuck for hours lost in the slop they made.
My BEST Wishes are with you man,


----------



## warlock07

Do the friends know? And she is trying to drag a innocent kid through this **** ? F8ck her. Show her no sympathy at all. How dare she do it to you. Even doing it in the new house


----------



## the guy

Its not about the OM, it about this poor girl (OM GF) living in a lie. Not understanding why the man she loves is treating her this way.

Expose to OM GF....she diserves to know....just like you, if it was you still in the dark.


----------



## Shaggy

aug said:


> Probably the OM will stay with the WW. After all, the WW does make quite a decent salary, $85K.


It WW is used to living on 85+250K she will find it very very hard to live on 85K.


----------



## Jibril

Shaggy said:


> It WW is used to living on 85+250K she will find it very very hard to live on 85K.


_Especially_ if it falls on her shoulders to take care of OM should they shack-up. And, unless I'm mixing-up threads, I believe this particular OM is broke.


----------



## aug

Shaggy said:


> It WW is used to living on 85+250K she will find it very very hard to live on 85K.


But Shaggy, she'll have the OM and their love for each other will be enough.


----------



## Acabado

Sorry man. It's horrible. I hope WW and OM get banned from you circle of friends. Those total sociopaths deserve each other.
I don't get what can possily want to say to you OM.
And of course she wants to try, HA! How are you going to manage the adoption piece?


----------



## MattMatt

Acabado said:


> Sorry man. It's horrible. I hope WW and OM get banned from you circle of friends. Those total sociopaths deserve each other.
> I don't get what can possily want to say to you OM.
> And of course she wants to try, HA! How are you going to manage the adoption piece?


My guess is that they knew already, and thought he did, too. Tell them otherwise. That'll be interesting.


----------



## Shaggy

Want to mess with everyone? Tell them you are heart broken because you and OM where having a thing and he betrayed you.

Made you evil laugh didn't I?


----------



## gmerty

wtf?!?! is this fiction or something. i skimmed through a few pages and you are one calm guy for this slap in the face. i made one mistake and i feel like **** but your wife and best friend? how are you so calm?


----------



## bff

Hey everyone,

It was a rough day. I had a couple small breakdowns throughout the day. Shopping for sheets, a pillow and a towel just so I can exist in the old empty house was particularly rough. I'll post a full recount of the confrontation tomorrow in hopes that someone can learn or benefit from it in the future. Everything you all said would happen happened. I don't know how I mustered the courage to stay strong through it, but I felt really prepared from what I learned here.

I have called a bunch of our common friends to let them know what happened. All were shocked. All want to hurt both my STBxW and the OM. I think I might be able to find contact info for the OM's GF. I think you are all right. She deserves to know.

I'm trying to line up dinners and meetings with friends, etc for the next few days to keep myself busy. I will rebuild myself - stronger, better, faster 

I hate to say it, but W will walk away with about half a million before any spousal support, which I'll probably have to pay for 5 years. If she wants to, she'll have no trouble supporting both of them for a while. But that won't last forever at the rate she likes to spend.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## gmerty

bff said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> It was a rough day. I had a couple small breakdowns throughout the day. Shopping for sheets, a pillow and a towel just so I can exist in the old empty house was particularly rough. I'll post a full recount of the confrontation tomorrow in hopes that someone can learn or benefit from it in the future. Everything you all said would happen happened. I don't know how I mustered the courage to stay strong through it, but I felt really prepared from what I learned here.
> 
> I have called a bunch of our common friends to let them know what happened. All were shocked. All want to hurt both my STBxW and the OM. I think I might be able to find contact info for the OM's GF. I think you are all right. She deserves to know.
> 
> I'm trying to line up dinners and meetings with friends, etc for the next few days to keep myself busy. I will rebuild myself - stronger, better, faster
> 
> I hate to say it, but W will walk away with about half a million before any spousal support, which I'll probably have to pay for 5 years. If she wants to, she'll have no trouble supporting both of them for a while. But that won't last forever at the rate she likes to spend.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


dude this is sick. maybe if she is remorseful, she won't want to take your money? maybe place nice and trick her into agreeing to a nice divorce? beg her if you have to.


----------



## OldWolf57

Take heart my friend. they are dirt to your other friends now. The putting back together the old place will gie you something to do, beside wollow in the slop trough they built.

I think you should get your lawyer to draw up a smaller settlement than that. Say 65/35. You are a bizman, you know everything is negotiable. Also you will get a sense of how much she just wanted to trap you with a kids anyway she could.
Remember, he's going to try to approach you now that he see that you won't hit him back up. But there is no reason for you to lower yourself to talk to him. He wants to justify, but if you are not falling for it, and he see everyone dumping his butt, it will turn to anger. Also he will probably blame her. Saying she seduced him.
So remember "if a cheaters lips are moving, they are lying".


----------



## aug

bff said:


> I hate to say it, but W will walk away with about half a million before any spousal support.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Can you pull the value out and, say, lose it all in Las Vegas because you were depressed about your marital situation?


----------



## aug

Is yours an alienation of affection state?


----------



## AngryandUsed

bff said:


> I have called a bunch of our common friends to let them know what happened. All were shocked. All want to hurt both my STBxW and the OM. I think I might be able to find contact info for the OM's GF. I think you are all right. She deserves to know.
> 
> I'm trying to line up dinners and meetings with friends, etc for the next few days to keep myself busy. I will rebuild myself - stronger, better, faster


Be with your well wishers for some time from now on until you can be alone.

I hate to say that it will be hard. While I do know that you prepared for this, actually going through this is really hard, dude.

The hard times will pass, and you will emerge stronger.




bff said:


> I hate to say it, but W will walk away with about half a million before any spousal support, which I'll probably have to pay for 5 years. If she wants to, she'll have no trouble supporting both of them for a while. But that won't last forever at the rate she likes to spend.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh. BFF, Move on. It is infidelity of your wife that matters most.


----------



## snap

gmerty said:


> dude this is sick. maybe if she is remorseful, she won't want to take your money? maybe place nice and trick her into agreeing to a nice divorce? beg her if you have to.


It's not *that* kind of remorse  It's the person who had no problem cheating for much (all) of their marriage on his payroll, remember.

And no don't beg. Money come and go, but this humiliation will stay with you for years.


----------



## jh52

You have to do whatever is necessary for you to recover. You will get through all of this crap -- though at the moment you don't see that. Time is your friend -- and the more time that passes, the less pain you will be in. 

Take care of yourself....that is your # 1 goal.


----------



## happyman64

bff said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> It was a rough day. I had a couple small breakdowns throughout the day. Shopping for sheets, a pillow and a towel just so I can exist in the old empty house was particularly rough. I'll post a full recount of the confrontation tomorrow in hopes that someone can learn or benefit from it in the future. Everything you all said would happen happened. I don't know how I mustered the courage to stay strong through it, but I felt really prepared from what I learned here.
> 
> I have called a bunch of our common friends to let them know what happened. All were shocked. All want to hurt both my STBxW and the OM. I think I might be able to find contact info for the OM's GF. I think you are all right. She deserves to know.
> 
> I'm trying to line up dinners and meetings with friends, etc for the next few days to keep myself busy. I will rebuild myself - stronger, better, faster
> 
> I hate to say it, but W will walk away with about half a million before any spousal support, which I'll probably have to pay for 5 years. If she wants to, she'll have no trouble supporting both of them for a while. But that won't last forever at the rate she likes to spend.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wow BFF I wish I was married to you and I am a guy! LOL!

I am glad that you are doing ok. I wish you had at least asked your wife to stay at the old house or dropped her off at your "best" friends with her suitcases but hey you did great.

And I try my hardest to keep the alimony and assets as low as possible to her. She could not even give you honesty these past few years.

But I also agree getting away from her as fast as you can so you take what you get and you walk away from this mess you did not create.

My prayers are for you today.

HM64


----------



## Ansley

In the new house ...I cried when I read that. She is heartless and he isnt even a human. 

85k is great money but with the lifestyle she is used to...wont get her around the block. She is used to going to bff for all her monetary wants. I think the OM will be done for considering there is no way he can compete with that.


----------



## Sbrown

bff said:


> I hate to say it, but W will walk away with about half a million before any spousal support, which I'll probably have to pay for 5 years. If she wants to, she'll have no trouble supporting both of them for a while. But that won't last forever at the rate she likes to spend.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sounds like it might be worth every penny, just to get rid of them...


Why are divorces so expensive????? Because they are worth it...


----------



## kenmoore14217

" W will walk away with about half a million " hmmmmmm ????????


----------



## Almostrecovered

kenmoore14217 said:


> " W will walk away with about half a million " hmmmmmm ????????


If they make $335k combined per year then having a million in shared assets isn't unrealistic


----------



## country boy

BFF
You have just set a nuke off in the cheaterville camp. Good job. They are running scared right now and that is how it should be. I hope the OM sh!t his britches when he got your text. 

One thing that caught me off guard that I was not prepared for was the number of mutual friends that we both associated with (me and OM) in our gang as we called it that fell into his camp when the sh!t hit the fan. 

I eventually had to distance myself from nearly the whole group because they could not see the issue I had with them trying to walk the fence between OM and myself. These people I had been friends with for nearly 25 years. 

These double betrayals are a b!tch BFF so stick near the ones you can still trust and take it day by day. When the dust settles you need to look around and you will see who is still standing with you and that will be your true friends.


----------



## bff

"Why are divorces so expensive? Because they're worth it!
I love this! You know who told me that joke many years ago? OM.

I've been INCREDIBLY fortunate and just got a huge payoff a few months ago from over 8 years of very hard work in a small company I helped to build, grow and sell. Now half of that will be gone in a snap of the fingers.

In the long run, I will actual be better off financially than if I stayed in the marriage. I know how to sacrifice for long term benefit. My STBxW does not, obviously. So, now I can actually save some money for my future with someone who will appreciate it more.

I live in a no-fault divorce state, since someone asked.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jay80_98

No, why not spend all that money prior to divorce? or give it to a brother or parent who can hold on to it and then issue the divorce papers?i


----------



## spudster

If losing some of your money means you will rid yourself of these two parasites, then it will be money well spent.

Your former best friend and so-called wife need to be taken to the public square and put on display for the cheats they are. 

Horrible, horrible people.


----------



## Machiavelli

country boy said:


> BFF
> One thing that caught me off guard that I was not prepared for was the number of mutual friends that we both associated with (me and OM) in our gang as we called it that fell into his camp when the sh!t hit the fan.


That's because the husband is always the last to know. They'd been reconciled to your WW and OM for some time, most likely, and were happy to keep you in the dark. This will probably play out the same way, at least somewhat, with BFF here, once the smoke clears.


----------



## PBear

jay80_98 said:


> No, why not spend all that money prior to divorce? or give it to a brother or parent who can hold on to it and then issue the divorce papers?i


Because it will come out in the divorce proceedings, and judges frown on that kind of behavior. They're not idiots.

C


----------



## Sbrown

Use the cash to pay off marital debts if there is any.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

What is your WW reaction now? Did she contacted you after this? What she is telling to others?


----------



## spudster

Kallan Pavithran said:


> What is your WW reaction now? Did she contacted you after this? What she is telling to others?


You can bet she is minimizing, blame shifting and running around frantically trying to keep as many people on her side as she can.


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT

Haven't really seen anything posted about what the WW reaction was when confronted or any after that.


----------



## Fvstringpicker

bff said:


> I hate to say it, but W will walk away with about half a million before any spousal support, which I'll probably have to pay for 5 years. If she wants to, she'll have no trouble supporting both of them for a while. But that won't last forever at the rate she likes to spend.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Still seems better than her having access to more than a half mil and still using you to keep her up while doing her BF. I found out long ago that even with the spousal support I paid, I had more money in my pocket and was free. Funny how the math works.
Make sure any money you pay to her is structured as alimony according to the IRS code so its fully deductible by you. Don't fall into non-deductible distributions on her behalf.


----------



## bff

I lied about it being only 7 years of marriage. That was when I was trying to be stealthy. It's been almost 10 years.

STBxW is texting me frantically right now, begging me to hear her out and give her the chance to prove to me that she can be the "person I deserve." I told her she doesn't deserve that chance and she isn't getting it from me. I told her that swapping fluids with him and then having sex with me is the most selfish, horrible thing she could possibly have done. Told her I was getting STD and HIV testing and she should do the same. OM has a very sordid history, and I doubt he's clean. 

As for the confrontation here's the full story:


I was all amped up to confront her on Friday night, but her mother came over to our house and we all had dinner together. It was awful. She was being so nice to me – it was killing me inside to think that THIS is the woman that is cheating on me. Anyway, her mom stuck around too late and I was emotionally and mentally exhausted and knew that I couldn’t deal with it that night.
The next morning, I almost started the conversation in bed. But, I couldn’t do it. So, I took a shower and headed downstairs for a cup of coffee. She eventually came down, and after a couple minutes of pacing around and readying myself for battle, I said, “Honey, there’s something that’s been bothering me for a while now that I need to talk to you about. What would you say is your relationship to OM?”
She first said that he’s “like a brother”. I then asked how often she talked to him. To my surprise, she did say that it was “almost every day”. She immediately put the blame on him – “He’s very needy. He’s always calling me and saying, call me over lunch, call me on your way home.”
So then I started asking her if she ever SEES him, face to face, when I’m not around. Again, to my surprise, there was a small admission. She said that very occasionally, when I was out of town for “a long time”, they would have dinner together.

We started going around in circles on this. She was saying how he is her closest friend, and she doesn’t have any other close friends, and that he isn’t so much like a brother but more like a girl friend or a “gay guy” friend. She even admitted, when I pushed, that yes, she might complain to him about me just like she would with any other girl friend. When I implied that this is an affair, she blew up at my use of that word.
She started to come around and say, yes, she can now see that keeping this from me was wrong and why I might be upset about that, and she’s very, very sorry. I asked if they ever kissed and she said no.

So I kept pushing…

I told her that I know a lot more than she thinks I know, and that this is her one and last chance to be totally honest with me if she wants to save our marriage. So I started asking again about how often she would see him when I was out of town. She kept insisting that he only came over once in the last week –just brought dinner, stayed for 5 minutes and was gone. This was the thing she kept lying about that allowed me to keep saying to her, “I know you are lying about some of the things you’re telling me,” and I could keep asking questions.

So then I got her to admit that “just once” they kissed a little bit. So I kept pushing and pushing. Then I got her to admit that they had sex “just once” a long time ago – it was terrible mistake that escalated and it never happened again. So I kept pushing and pushing. Then I got her to admit that it was “2 times” that they had sex, of course, a long time ago. So then I said, that if she wants to earn my trust back, it needs to start NOW. I said we’re going to call the OM together, I’m going to say that you’ve come completely clean and told me the whole truth and we’re going to ask him the number of times. And if it is a small, specific number, then he should have the same number. I could tell by the look on her face, that this wasn’t going to play out well. So I said, “how many times?” She said nothing. I said, “more than 20?” She said, oh no, it was probably less than 20. So then I asked the last thing I needed to know. When was the most recent time? No answer. So I said, “Did you have sex with him in our new house on our new bed THIS WEEK?” She just stared at the ground and said, “I don’t want to answer that.” I said she didn’t have to say anything, she already answered it.
I told her I needed to leave and was going to the other house. I went upstairs and got my suitcase, a couple toiletries and nothing else. I was in shock and not thinking straight. As I walked out the door, she was curled up in the middle of the floor. I said nothing, and walked out the door.


----------



## Sbrown

Holy fok!


----------



## SomedayDig

Wow bff. You're pretty damn good, man!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Wanting1

Wow. I'm shaking just reading that. I'm so sorry. I hope all your friends and family rally around you. You have been so wronged.


----------



## Complexity

Like Warlock said earlier, it was a punch in the gut reading that. So sorry man.


----------



## snap

Have to say it was handled perfectly. It's rare we see that here.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Hard to pull it off that way as most BS's want to desperately believe their spouse, I don't recommend that method for most. Glad you could stick to your guns.


----------



## Complexity

Did she offer any explanation at all for this?


----------



## bff

STBxW's mother just called me. She started by begging me to give her daughter another chance because "everybody makes mistakes but everybody deserves another chance." She said, "She REALLY loves you and wants to be with YOU, not with OM."

I said she should have thought of that when OM was on top of her, f*&king her in our bed in our house.

She actually did a lot more blameshifting than my WW did. She kept saying that there must have been problems in our relationship and our marriage that "forced" her daughter to look elsewhere and that I owed it to her daughter and to myself to figure out what that was. I told her that while I agree that our marriage wasn't perfect back when this all started, I thought it was pretty good and that my WW never once told me that she wasn't satisfied with things. Her decision to go outside the marriage was her own selfish decision, it wasn't my refusal to work with her on any issues. 

We went round and round, her saying that her daughter loves me and is a good, trustworthy person who has ended her relationship with the OM. I pointed out again and again that the ONLY reason that relationship is over was because I CAUGHT THEM. She didn't make that decision and ask to work on our relationship. She only is asking to work on the relationship since I took away her preferred option of having her cake and f*&king it too.

Also had a text exchange with my WW. Here's my favorite from her in response to me saying, "How the hell could you do this to me?":

"I wasn't doing anything to you. I just let a close relationship get too far."

Boy, if I wasn't resolved before to get this person out of my life, her statement that she doesn't see this as doing anything TO ME makes me sure that I do, indeed, deserve better.


----------



## Jibril

Just cut these people from your life. Your STBxW's mother will forever side with her daughter, and she's made that clear by blaming you for the affair.

And your STBxW is an unremorseful, short-sighted idiot. That she can beg for forgiveness and another chance, and at the same time claim she didn't do anything to you, is just... Wow. 

Cease communications with them, at once. You'll only be stressing yourself more if you don't.


----------



## gotyounow

hi BFF 

whatever happens do not reconcille just get divorce absolutely the only answer. let her be horrible in her life and her OM has to be burned.

do not hear any reconcilliation, second chance advice from anybody and you must live your life without her never forgive cheating *****


----------



## gotyounow

also say to her mother that she is no different with her daughter yes she is a *****ee


----------



## Chaparral

Best friend hasn't texted you? Thats wierd.


----------



## Acabado

Sorry man


> "I wasn't doing anything to you. I just let a close relationship get too far."


That's how compartmentalization works. In her mind the affair is something completely unrelated to you and the marriage. It was something between her and OM, it was for hers, she can't grasp the impact it had in her, her perception of you or the marriage and of course the damage and ramifications in case of being busted. She got used to hid it at plain sight given OM was also your "friend", she though she was too good at it to get caught.
In a certain sense it's actually a "good" sign; she's owning it, she "slipped" you are not to blame, she wasnt doing it because you did X or didn't Z nor she did it to punishing you. She was just plain selfish, she was never supposed to be caught.
Anyhow the blameshifting will begin very soon, the very moment she realize there's no way back and friends are in the know. She will shift the blame and start gaslighting everyone very soon.

Of course 20 times, as recently as last week my a$$.


----------



## betamale

Your wife doesn't realized what she did. I see no remorse coming from her. That woman is cold. 

If you ever take her back, she'll cheat again.


----------



## aug

So bff, did she tell you how many years she had been doing this?

I'm thinking that the OM is so deeply ingrained into her and is part of her emotional being, she'll never be able to rid him from her mind and spirit even if she can be remorseful. 

Given her mother's position, your wife's behavior is clearly condoned by her family. 

Your wife has too much baggage for her to fix herself in your lifetime.

It's a good thing you are seriously considering moving on. No kids, just move on.


----------



## MattMatt

Almostrecovered said:


> If they make $335k combined per year then having a million in shared assets isn't unrealistic


Especially with owning two houses, plus business interests, shares, etc., etc.


----------



## MattMatt

country boy said:


> BFF
> You have just set a nuke off in the cheaterville camp. Good job. They are running scared right now and that is how it should be. I hope the OM sh!t his britches when he got your text.
> 
> One thing that caught me off guard that I was not prepared for was the number of mutual friends that we both associated with (me and OM) in our gang as we called it that fell into his camp when the sh!t hit the fan.
> 
> I eventually had to distance myself from nearly the whole group because they could not see the issue I had with them trying to walk the fence between OM and myself. These people I had been friends with for nearly 25 years.
> 
> These double betrayals are a b!tch BFF so stick near the ones you can still trust and take it day by day. When the dust settles you need to look around and you will see who is still standing with you and that will be your true friends.


When my best friend cheated on his wife, and did it in such an evil way, she was carrying their first babies, twins, and he left her for her best friend, I dropped him as a friend and was there for his wife and their boys.


----------



## keko

Your stbx wife's mother is simply disgusting. No wonder her daughter is just like her.


----------



## betamale

Everybody deserves a 2nd chance, not a 20th chance.


----------



## snap

Her mother likely was aware of the affair for years.


----------



## Complexity

snap said:


> Her mother likely was aware of the affair for years.


Very interesting point.


----------



## snap

aug said:


> It's a good thing you are seriously considering moving on. No kids, just move on.


:iagree:

I tend to be pro-R, but in this case it's too much damage and too little upside.


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT

She not only was screwing some guy she just had to go to the new house and do him in their new bed. There's no chance you can get back with somebody like that.


----------



## snap

Complexity said:


> Very interesting point.


From the sound of it his W and her mother have close relationship, there's no way she'd keep her mom in the dark for so long.

So you got new house, she broke it in with the OM while you were away, then had a dinner with her MIL and you as the only (as they thought) clueless party.


----------



## bff

Hold on, gang. Her mother is a wonderful person who is just trying to keep her daughter's world from collapsing around her. She told me that when her daughter told her about the affair this morning, she was devastated and asked how could she do something so stupid. She also said to me that she was always "uncomfortable" with their obvious close relationship and she now really regrets not saying something. She said, "I never could have believed that she would do something like this."

I have to believe this is very hard for her to see her daughter go through, especially because the daughter is so clearly at fault.

I don't hold anything against her trying to say ANYTHING to me to try to get another chance for her daughter. I probably misrepresented the call in my post above. It was a good conversation for me to have, and I have a lot of respect for her trying to help her daughter. I do believe that she wasn't aware of what was going on, but like me, saw the signs all along but didn't act on them.


----------



## iJordan

I hope your friends are taking you out for beer after handling this like a boss.


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT

There's always a lesson to be learned. Always trust your gut and when the signs are there address the situation. Many times it's nothing at all but a lot of times it the difference between stopping a EA before it goes physical and not. Inside of a marriage someone shouldn't have to be explaining to the other spouse that he or she is just a friend. You don't need boundaries set in my opinion for someone to know what's inappropriate.


----------



## bff

Now with minus one, I have a GREAT set of friends. Unconditional love and support. I'd be lost at sea without a few people close to me, here. Sadly enough, two of them have first hand experience with this sort of betrayal.


----------



## snap

bff, I also thought my MIL was a wonderful person, and always spoke highly of her. Until I heard her discussing the affair and me with my wife.

I could be projecting my bitter experience of course. You know your situation better.

But careful with the in-laws.


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT

snap said:


> bff, I also thought my MIL was a wonderful person, and always spoke highly of her. Until I heard her discussing the affair and me with my wife.
> 
> I could be projecting my bitter experience of course. You know your situation better.
> 
> But careful with the in-laws.


Yup...no matter what you think that's her daughter. She's not an ally of yours in all of this.


----------



## Shaggy

In your wife's mind this has been going on so long that she doesn't understand why it's a problem to you. she's been living this double life quite comfortably and happily and you've never spoken up or complained.

Yes from a cheating is wrong sense she knows she's crossed the line.

But from her view of the life she chose to live, she's shocked that it has fallen apart and that you aren't giving her a chance. 

See she and OM new the truth about everything - he knew she was married, they both knew you, they both knew they were carrying on. It as nice a tidy and they thought they knew the rules of the game and it was all working out well.

then you had to change the rules on them and brought it all crashing down.

So right now your wife isn't dealing with her betrayal and how it hurt you, she is entirely dealing with her carefully constructed world crashing down and the rules she's been living by for years having suddenly changed.

So her instinct is to try to figure out the new rules and to put her world back together like it was, like it was working for so long.

Only when she really comes to realize that it is never every returning and she accepts that - only then will she if she's got any empathy realize just what she's done to you. That's when you might see remorse. 

But not now, not yet. she's got to accept she can't put the pieces back together again.

What she will be doing for the next while is to try to put the pieces back together. She will chase you to convince you to return. She will enlist friends to badger you. She will plead beg etc. She will try to negotiate. She will whatever she can think of to do.

When none of that has worked she might just realize what she has done. it will be a while.


----------



## the guy

Of course it not a problem with WW....again entitle ment issue that go way back to her youth when Mommy did everything to keep DD (devoted daughter) out of trouble.
I bet WW hasn't had to face a single consequence growing up.

Her statement IMHO validate my opinion here. It sucks but maybe it will give you some understanding on how broken this chick is.

A decent MIL would have offered support and excepted your stance on the matter.....sorry brother but MIL is doing what she's been doing the entire life of your STBXW.

She may be a good person but I think she made some mistakes down the line when it comes to rising her daughter.

Sure MIL is heart broken and rightfully so she is losing a great SIL and now sees what she has created by always letting her DD get away without consequences.

Your a good dude, I would have told my MIL "I have some great movies of her DD and OM if she wanted some keepsakes" I'm sure that would get back to STBXW and totaly rock her world.

Anyway stay strong and she is no longer your problem...its your lawyers now! 


BTW find that GF and expose, try google or FB


----------



## sandc

bff said:


> .
> .
> .
> I have called a bunch of our common friends to let them know what happened. All were shocked. All want to hurt both my STBxW and the OM. I think I might be able to find contact info for the OM's GF. I think you are all right. She deserves to know.
> .
> .
> .
> 
> I hate to say it, but W will walk away with about half a million before any spousal support, which I'll probably have to pay for 5 years. If she wants to, she'll have no trouble supporting both of them for a while. But that won't last forever at the rate she likes to spend.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She probably won't support both of them for long. Now that everyone knows and hopefully do not approve of what they did the fantasy will come crashing down for both of them. In no time at all they will get sick of one another. Then hopefully she'll realize what she gave up.


----------



## MattMatt

bff said:


> Hold on, gang. Her mother is a wonderful person who is just trying to keep her daughter's world from collapsing around her. She told me that when her daughter told her about the affair this morning, she was devastated and asked how could she do something so stupid. She also said to me that she was always "uncomfortable" with their obvious close relationship and she now really regrets not saying something. She said, "I never could have believed that she would do something like this."
> 
> I have to believe this is very hard for her to see her daughter go through, especially because the daughter is so clearly at fault.
> 
> I don't hold anything against her trying to say ANYTHING to me to try to get another chance for her daughter. I probably misrepresented the call in my post above. It was a good conversation for me to have, and I have a lot of respect for her trying to help her daughter. I do believe that she wasn't aware of what was going on, but like me, saw the signs all along but didn't act on them.


That's good to know.

You didn't want to believe your wife would cheat on you, her mom did not want to believe her daughter could cheat on you, either.

Your wife let you down, her mother down, the OM's GF and also herself.


----------



## sandc

bff:

You've confronted your wife. You seem like a pretty level-headed and thorough dude. Are you planning on having any kind of conversation with OM? He was your best friend at one time. Or are you more of the mind to just have him cease to exist as far as you are concerned?


----------



## bff

Shaggy said:


> In your wife's mind this has been going on so long that she doesn't understand why it's a problem to you. she's been living this double life quite comfortably and happily and you've never spoken up or complained.
> 
> Yes from a cheating is wrong sense she knows she's crossed the line.
> 
> But from her view of the life she chose to live, she's shocked that it has fallen apart and that you aren't giving her a chance.
> 
> See she and OM new the truth about everything - he knew she was married, they both knew you, they both knew they were carrying on. It as nice a tidy and they thought they knew the rules of the game and it was all working out well.
> 
> then you had to change the rules on them and brought it all crashing down.
> 
> So right now your wife isn't dealing with her betrayal and how it hurt you, she is entirely dealing with her carefully constructed world crashing down and the rules she's been living by for years having suddenly changed.
> 
> So her instinct is to try to figure out the new rules and to put her world back together like it was, like it was working for so long.
> 
> Only when she really comes to realize that it is never every returning and she accepts that - only then will she if she's got any empathy realize just what she's done to you. That's when you might see remorse.
> 
> But not now, not yet. she's got to accept she can't put the pieces back together again.
> 
> What she will be doing for the next while is to try to put the pieces back together. She will chase you to convince you to return. She will enlist friends to badger you. She will plead beg etc. She will try to negotiate. She will whatever she can think of to do.
> 
> When none of that has worked she might just realize what she has done. it will be a while.


Shaggy, this is really insightful. Thanks for this. It does help me to understand what she's going through. I really do love this woman, and even though she has betrayed my trust in a way that I don't even want to try to repair, I still don't want her to suffer. She didn't do this to hurt me - I'm sure it was pure selfishness.

I just went over to the new house to collect my clothing and a couple other small things while she was away from the house with her mother. I looked around and all I could think is what a horribly lonely house that is going to be for her. I honestly think she's smart enough to not continue a relationship with the OM. I'll bet she will blame HIM for her world crashing down. Keeping a relationship going with him will invalidate all of her claims that he really "means nothing" to her.

I still can't believe I only got to spend 3 nights in that house. What a horror show.

To address the question of whether I'll talk to the OM, I'm sure I will eventually. But not right now. I want the full gravity of what he's done - participated in destroying two people's lives - to fully sink in. I shudder to think what would have happened if my STBxW would have ended it before I took action and then I NEVER WOULD HAVE KNOWN what these two did to me. I'm not a religious person, but I do believe in karma, or at least that "imbalance" is a bad thing. I can't imagine finding out 10 years from now that this all happened behind my back and I never knew.


----------



## keko

bff, were any of your friends/family aware of it but kept it quiet?


----------



## gotyounow

bff said:


> Hold on, gang. *Her mother is a wonderful person *.


you said that but i say that she is a *****


----------



## Chaparral

Do you know where your ex best friend lives? You could go by there and tell his girl friend. Do you have her name?


----------



## Wazza

bff said:


> Shaggy, this is really insightful. Thanks for this. It does help me to understand what she's going through. I really do love this woman, and even though she has betrayed my trust in a way that I don't even want to try to repair, I still don't want her to suffer. She didn't do this to hurt me - I'm sure it was pure selfishness.
> 
> I just went over to the new house to collect my clothing and a couple other small things while she was away from the house with her mother. I looked around and all I could think is what a horribly lonely house that is going to be for her. I honestly think she's smart enough to not continue a relationship with the OM. I'll bet she will blame HIM for her world crashing down. Keeping a relationship going with him will invalidate all of her claims that he really "means nothing" to her.
> 
> I still can't believe I only got to spend 3 nights in that house. What a horror show.
> 
> To address the question of whether I'll talk to the OM, I'm sure I will eventually. But not right now. I want the full gravity of what he's done - participated in destroying two people's lives - to fully sink in. I shudder to think what would have happened if my STBxW would have ended it before I took action and then I NEVER WOULD HAVE KNOWN what these two did to me. I'm not a religious person, but I do believe in karma, or at least that "imbalance" is a bad thing. I can't imagine finding out 10 years from now that this all happened behind my back and I never knew.


BFF, I am just a stranger on the internet, but fwiw, I have really admired your calm and logical demeanour, and also your focus on working the incredibly painful problem life threw at you without succumbing to bitterness or hate.

Without in any way defending your stbxw, I feel sorry for her. I imagine she fell into this situation by small steps and lost perspective, and when she regains perspective, if she is decent, she is going to suffer. I'm glad you can find a compassionate thought for her, even after she has done this to you. Apart from anything else, I think it will help you to heal.


----------



## Acabado

In her damage control admisions WW first admited ONS "years ago", finnlya had to admit sex as recent as the last week. Does MIL know about the extent of this betrayal? Assuming she was not aware she really has to be shocked. OF COURSe there has to be some powerful reasons her little princess commited such a crime? 
MIL is also likely thinking about not going to be a grandma, at least for a while.
The whole circunstances are horrible, the move, the adoption, the double betrayal... wow!

You have handled this so well man, I'm sure you have a good idea on how manage for now on. I justy wanted to remind the check list:
Take care of yuour health, eat properly and drink plenty of water. Run from the booze.
STD test, asap.
Lawyer, start putting the ball runing about spliting finances, etc. Also about the adoption.
Lean on friends, don't bury yourself in that empty house alone.

Man hugs.


----------



## Caribbean Man

bff said:


> Shaggy, this is really insightful. Thanks for this. It does help me to understand what she's going through. *I really do love this woman, and even though she has betrayed my trust in a way that I don't even want to try to repair, I still don't want her to suffer. * She didn't do this to hurt me - I'm sure it was pure selfishness.
> 
> I just went over to the new house to collect my clothing and a couple other small things while she was away from the house with her mother. I looked around and all I could think is what a horribly lonely house that is going to be for her. I honestly think she's smart enough to not continue a relationship with the OM. I'll bet she will blame HIM for her world crashing down. Keeping a relationship going with him will invalidate all of her claims that he really "means nothing" to her.
> 
> *I still can't believe I only got to spend 3 nights in that house. What a horror show.*




"........Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace in your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world.

Be cheerful. Strive to be happy..........."

Desiderata - by Max Ehrmann


----------



## zsu234

Change the locks and alarm code ASAP on the old house.


----------



## Fvstringpicker

bff said:


> Hold on, gang. Her mother is a wonderful person who is just trying to keep her daughter's world from collapsing around her.


Moms probably afraid the daughter's gonna wanta move back home with her.


----------



## bff

Just let her know that I'm filing for divorce tomorrow. She said she wishes we could work it out but she understands. She said "You're a great person. I am not."

My god this hurts. Even with the horrific images in my head of them together, the pain of flushing the last 12 years of my life (courtship + marriage) is unreal. I'm going to miss her so much. I know better days are ahead for me, but this is just awful. I always thought she was too good to be true. Turns out I was right.


----------



## jh52

bff said:


> Just let her know that I'm filing for divorce tomorrow. She said she wishes we could work it out but she understands. She said "You're a great person. I am not."
> 
> My god this hurts. Even with the horrific images in my head of them together, the pain of flushing the last 12 years of my life (courtship + marriage) is unreal. I'm going to miss her so much. I know better days are ahead for me, but this is just awful. I always thought she was too good to be true. Turns out I was right.


Hang strong man -- no one said this will be easy no matter what was done !!


----------



## Shaggy

Be prepared for the desperate attempts to get you back. I predict you'll have at least one tearful confrontation, one her showing up in the middle of the night throwing herself at you, and one "let's just meet for sex because I miss you so" moment.


----------



## Shaggy

Oh, and then there will be a series of things she will need your help with:

brakes, plumbers, stuck windows, car stuff, financial stuff, ....

prepare yourself on how you want these to go down.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

It sucks. Would be nice if she would fight for you a little. Even if you're going to dump her anyway.


----------



## happyman64

bff said:


> Just let her know that I'm filing for divorce tomorrow. She said she wishes we could work it out but she understands. She said "You're a great person. I am not."
> 
> My god this hurts. Even with the horrific images in my head of them together, the pain of flushing the last 12 years of my life (courtship + marriage) is unreal. I'm going to miss her so much. I know better days are ahead for me, but this is just awful. I always thought she was too good to be true. Turns out I was right.


BFF

I believe in Karma too! I have seen firsthand what Karma brings to these selfish individuals.

But their selfish actions still do not prevent us from feeling their pain. Because sadly, we still love them.

You are doing the right thing.

Go meet with your attorney and set the wheels in motion.

In a few weeks you will begin to realize just how good it will feel to have this burden off your shoulders.

And in time you find someone that is too good to be true.

It happened for me and it will happen for you.

For now, heal, take care of yourself and take care of business!

HM64


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

aug said:


> Oh, forgot to mention the boundaries of the various stages of grief are not clearly defined. You can get a mixture of stages at the same time.


No kidding. It's been 8 months since dday and 3 months since final divorce decree and I still cycle through the various stages. Fortunately, I spend 90% of my time in the acceptance stage.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

bff said:


> But, that being said, I am holding my head high. * I just went for a walk on the beach*, and I'm looking around thinking how much I have to be thankful for. I'm only 43. I'm healthy. I have the love and support of my family. I have great friends who are have already been and will be there for me through all this. I have a great career and a stable financial position. I WILL be OK. I'm getting a chance to start again and find someone who appreciates me and wants MY love. This really is the first day of my new life.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


BFF, you are indeed a lucky man. Your thread, like Shamwow's will be an inspiration to many other betrayed spouses for years to come. Also, how many people get to go for walks on the beach while not on vacation?

Believe me, things will get better. To quote one of my favorite singers: 'That which doesn't kill you only makes your stronger.' Good luck!


----------



## spudster

bff said:


> Just let her know that I'm filing for divorce tomorrow. She said she wishes we could work it out but she understands. She said "*You're a great person. I am not*."


I almost laughed myself outta my chair when I read this! :rofl: Well! That just makes everything okay then! All those years of marriage and this is her idea of being contrite? 

Doesn't sound like someone fighting to save her marriage to me. It sounds like someone who is relieved to be over and done with it all. The fact that she _has not _come over to the old house in person to see you and look you in the eye and tell you why she did what she did and what she is willing to do to get you back also says alot about how "sorry" she is.

bff, when she said all this was she crying? Did she seem honestly sad? Or was she talking to you like a business partner getting ready to sell all her shares of the company to you?


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

bff said:


> I hate to say it, but W will walk away with about half a million before any spousal support, which I'll probably have to pay for 5 years.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


BFF, it's only money and you will make it back tenfold. I consider the $150K that my ex got in the divorce settlement money well spent. I would undoubtedly have spent more in the future supporting her, taking her on exotic trips, buying new cars, etc. It's a small price for peace of mind.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

MAKINGSENSEOFIT said:


> She not only was screwing some guy she just had to go to the new house and do him in their new bed. There's no chance you can get back with somebody like that.


The fvcked up thing is that she probably christened the new house with OM before she did with BFF.


----------



## MattMatt

spudster said:


> I almost laughed myself outta my chair when I read this! :rofl: Well! That just makes everything okay then! All those years of marriage and this is her idea of being contrite?


For bff's wife, that might have been a sudden realisation. The fact that she has been faced with the consequences of her behaviour could have been like a dash of cold water to her face.

The discovery that you are, indeed, not the person you thought you were can be a painful one.

The reason why she was able to claim it was just a ONS years ago was because that was, indeed, how it began. But when she realised that bff had not noticed that she and his best friend had strayed, when she believed it had not affected bff and her marriage, had, she foolishly believed, actually made it stronger, she and bff's best friend had another ONS. And another and another until it became a regular thing.

She and best friend probably comforted themselves that bff must, really, know what was happening but that he was keeping quiet about it so as not to rock the boat. They mistook bff's trust in his wife and in his best friend as acquiescence and acceptance of their sexual relationship.

With the sharing of drinks, etc., it is clear that the wife and best friend actually had some romantic feelings for each other. That was perhaps why they spent so much time together. At some level they felt like a married couple together.


----------



## Ansley

What will happen with the adoption?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## J Valley

bff said:


> Just let her know that I'm filing for divorce tomorrow. She said she wishes we could work it out but she understands. She said "You're a great person. I am not."
> 
> My god this hurts. Even with the horrific images in my head of them together, the pain of flushing the last 12 years of my life (courtship + marriage) is unreal. I'm going to miss her so much. I know better days are ahead for me, but this is just awful. I always thought she was too good to be true. Turns out I was right.


I must admit that I did not read your entire thread but enough to know that you are detaching and moving on. You are on the right track.

If your wife truly loves for you, then she should waive all her rights to your properties and money.


----------



## MattMatt

Ansley said:


> What will happen with the adoption?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would imagine it would be halted because the stable couple represented to the authorities was, in effect, nothing but a sham.


----------



## MattMatt

J Valley said:


> I must admit that I did not read your entire thread but enough to know that you are detaching and moving on. You are on the right track.
> 
> If your wife truly loves for you, then she should waive all her rights to your properties and money.


I agree, in theory. But she might not be in a position to do this.

Bff would not let her. Why? Because bff's wife has it right when she acknowledges that bff is the better person of the two of them.


----------



## snap

the guy said:


> Sure MIL is heart broken and rightfully so she is losing a great SIL and now sees what she has created by always letting her DD get away without consequences.


Nope, she doesn't see that. From her perspective, she or her daughter can't be wrong, hence it has to be bff. Hence the whole "what have you done to make her cheat" rhetoric.


----------



## Ansley

The MIL isnt stupid. She knows life is tough. She knows the financial security WW has and that BFF is a good guy. Neither is easy to come by. She will plead with him probably more than WW.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

J Valley said:


> I must admit that I did not read your entire thread but enough to know that you are detaching and moving on. You are on the right track.
> 
> If your wife truly loves for you, then she should waive all her rights to your properties and money.


Not likely to happen though because she'll go through her own stages of grief and will spend a lot of time in the anger phase. In addition, her girlfriends would surely talk her out of this.

(BTW, a great way to quickly get through really long and compelling threads and fully understand what's going on is to read just the OP's posts and ignore most of the rest.)


----------



## freckleface

bff said:


> Just let her know that I'm filing for divorce tomorrow. She said she wishes we could work it out but she understands. She said "You're a great person. I am not."
> 
> My god this hurts. Even with the horrific images in my head of them together, the pain of flushing the last 12 years of my life (courtship + marriage) is unreal. I'm going to miss her so much. I know better days are ahead for me, but this is just awful. I always thought she was too good to be true. Turns out I was right.


Oh, bff. My heart aches for you. I'm so so sorry. I had hoped you'd find nothing, and you found the worst.

Stay strong, you are doing the right thing by focusing on yourself. Keep listening to you and your needs, and take care of you please.


----------



## thunderstruck

bff - you were one strong mofo throughout this, and I hope if I'm ever in your situation, I can hold up as well as you did.:toast:


bff said:


> I'm going to miss her so much.


I think you're actually going to miss the woman you once knew (or at least her facade) years ago. That woman is long gone, and has been replaced by this cheater/liar POS.


----------



## Bottled Up

I find it incredibly strange and suspect that this entire scenario unfolded in a matter of less than 2 weeks.


----------



## ing

Bottled Up said:


> I find it incredibly strange and suspect that this entire scenario unfolded in a matter of less than 2 weeks.


From first revelation to her moving out for me was 12 days
This is what happens when a hard boundary is crossed.
All systems. Emergency stop.


----------



## ing

thunderstruck said:


> bff - you were one strong mofo throughout this, and I hope if I'm ever in your situation, I can hold up as well as you did.:toast:
> 
> I think you're actually going to miss the woman you once knew (or at least her facade) years ago. That woman is long gone, and has been replaced by this cheater/liar POS.


You ARE goig to miss her. Terribly. You are going to need time to mourn and grieve. It may take several years. Give yourself time to feel this. It has all happened fast. Expect it to hit you soon. Keep posting, venting. There are people here who understand.


----------



## warlock07

What is with this cheaters who keep cheating until they get caught and suddenly they want to work it out!! It is like a conman who keeps defrauding people until the day he gets caught and suddenly he wants to live a honest life once. At least the one's that confess have a speck of integrity with them. They try to make it seem as if the burden of keeping the marriage together rests on the BS while they are the one that sh!tted all over it in the first place


----------



## rigcol

BFF:

I've been following along and wanted to commend you on how you're handling this incredibly difficult and painful situation. My prayers and best wishes are with you.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

MattMatt said:


> She and best friend probably comforted themselves that bff must, really, know what was happening but that he was keeping quiet about it so as not to rock the boat. They mistook bff's trust in his wife and in his best friend as acquiescence and acceptance of their sexual relationship.


I suspect there is much truth in this. Many others, even the MIL, saw the close relationship between those two. People likely did not say anything because they knew you saw it to. At that point, it becomes easy to beleive that you were at least willing to just look the other way. 

Not blaming you bff, only noted how it probably looked to many. Look at yourself and figure out why you let it go on, as well as how you will prevent things like this in the future.


----------



## thunderstruck

warlock07 said:


> What is with this cheaters who keep cheating until they get caught and suddenly they want to work it out!!


Hey, she had it pretty good...getting her needs met by two men. In her mind, she could have done this forever. Now, after her reality has been nuked, she's going to lose both men, her $$$ lifestyle, etc. She probably feels like she's drowning at sea now, so of course she's going to reach out to what she thought was her solid backup plan (bff). I'm not shedding a tear for her, but I imagine she's going through her own version of hell right now.


----------



## Fvstringpicker

J Valley said:


> If your wife truly loves for you, then she should waive all her rights to your properties and money.


The reality is that if she truly loved him she wouldn't have been banging his so called best friend time and time again. When a wife is banging other guys, it means she don't love you.


----------



## aug

Fvstringpicker said:


> The reality is that if she truly loved him she wouldn't have been banging his so called best friend time and time again. When a wife is banging other guys, it means she don't love you.



So, so true.


----------



## aug

thunderstruck said:


> Hey, she had it pretty good...getting her needs met by two men. In her mind, she could have done this forever. Now, after her reality has been nuked, she's going to lose both men, her $$$ lifestyle, etc. She probably feels like she's drowning at sea now, so of course she's going to reach out to what she thought was her solid backup plan (bff). I'm not shedding a tear for her, but *I imagine she's going through her own version of hell right now.*



Doubt it. She still has her lover. And her income is more than sufficient - so no great economic loss on her part.

And it'll be easy for her to move on and find another man since she did not have a deep love or attachment to bff. She has no substantial emotional value attached to bff, so she will not lose much.


----------



## Fvstringpicker

ing said:


> You ARE goig to miss her. Terribly. You are going to need time to mourn and grieve. It may take several years.


Unless he finds a younger hottie, and preferably several, to fill the void. Or he can sit around, crying in his beer, pondering the 10 years he invested, and what he did and the elements he's lacking that caused all this heartache in his life. 
Replacing this cheater, probably with him only to support her lifestyle, with a new and superior model will be like falling of a log.


----------



## bff

Tall Average Guy said:


> I suspect there is much truth in this. Many others, even the MIL, saw the close relationship between those two. People likely did not say anything because they knew you saw it to. At that point, it becomes easy to beleive that you were at least willing to just look the other way.
> 
> Not blaming you bff, only noted how it probably looked to many. Look at yourself and figure out why you let it go on, as well as how you will prevent things like this in the future.


It's hard to hear but it is definitely spot on. I absolutely enabled this by looking the other way. I knew it in the moment, and I know it now. This will absolutely be something that I work through with myself, with my friends and with my therapist over the coming weeks and months. I truly do hope that I learn something about myself that will help me to have a healthier long term relationship in the future.

BTW - you have to find a little humor in this to stay sane... a common friend of OM and me who didn't yet know what was going on sent me an email yesterday saying, "Hey, if you see OM, tell him to get some sleep. He sounded horrible on the phone when I talked to him today."

Back at work, today. Took down the pictures in my office of me and STBxW. I don't yet know what I'm going to say to my coworkers. All they know is I took Friday off for a "family emergency", so I'm sure they'll all be curious. Wonder if I should just get it out in the open?


----------



## thunderstruck

aug said:


> Doubt it. She still has her lver. And her income is more than sufficient - so no great economic loss on her part.
> 
> And it'll be easy for her to move on and find another man since she did not have a deep love or attachment to bff. She has no substantial emotional value attached to bff, so she will not lose much.


Possibly. It's was fun and games for the OM before. Now, he gets to deal with her being miserable and crying all the time, so he'll likely kick her azz to the curb. He'll move on the next shiny thing that catches his eye. bff said his W blows through cash, so she'll take a nice hit there as well.

On her emotional attachment to bff, she probably had one, in her own twisted way. It will hit her hard when she realizes that she F'd up and let a good man go.


----------



## Unsure in Seattle

bff said:


> It's hard to hear but it is definitely spot on. I absolutely enabled this by looking the other way. I knew it in the moment, and I know it now. This will absolutely be something that I work through with myself, with my friends and with my therapist over the coming weeks and months. I truly do hope that I learn something about myself that will help me to have a healthier long term relationship in the future.
> 
> BTW - you have to find a little humor in this to stay sane... a common friend of OM and me who didn't yet know what was going on sent me an email yesterday saying, "Hey, if you see OM, tell him to get some sleep. He sounded horrible on the phone when I talked to him today."
> 
> Back at work, today. Took down the pictures in my office of me and STBxW. I don't yet know what I'm going to say to my coworkers. All they know is I took Friday off for a "family emergency", so I'm sure they'll all be curious. Wonder if I should just get it out in the open?


Yeah, if someone asks you, I don't see any point innot telling them. Just tell them that you're trying to get on w
th life and so forth.


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

bff said:


> It's hard to hear but it is definitely spot on. I absolutely enabled this by looking the other way. I knew it in the moment, and I know it now. This will absolutely be something that I work through with myself, with my friends and with my therapist over the coming weeks and months. I truly do hope that I learn something about myself that will help me to have a healthier long term relationship in the future.
> 
> BTW - you have to find a little humor in this to stay sane... a common friend of OM and me who didn't yet know what was going on sent me an email yesterday saying, "Hey, if you see OM, tell him to get some sleep. He sounded horrible on the phone when I talked to him today."
> 
> Back at work, today. Took down the pictures in my office of me and STBxW. I don't yet know what I'm going to say to my coworkers. All they know is I took Friday off for a "family emergency", so I'm sure they'll all be curious. Wonder if I should just get it out in the open?



You can just let them know you and your wife are starting the process of divorcing. There's nothing wrong with keeping the details private. Look divorce has become so common place it's not shocking news for people to hear. As long as they know the basics of what's going on you will set up another support system for yourself.


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

Plan 9 from OS said:


> You have to bear in mind that his wife is accustomed to a certain lifestyle. Sure, she makes good money at 85K; however, if she's accustomed to having 200K/year at her disposal then it will be a huge adjustment. If these houses that bff and his wife own are as big as I think they are, then she probably cannot afford to live in either one of them based on what she makes alone. She would probably have to move away from the coast to get herself a nice place.
> 
> What will be funny is that now her and OM can set up house together, and I'll bet the farm that her feelings for the OM will change a great deal if they live together like a married couple. Something tells me that the OM is a real POS that did a great job of hiding his true personality from bff and their group of friends. I'm sure the wife will love seeing how much of an ass the OM really is...


The relationship with the other man will 99.9% fall apart very quickly. The high she was getting from the relationship was the fact that it was sex outside of the marriage. While inside of the marriage she was able to tell her family and friends about the great lifestyle she has. What is she reduced to now? Telling them she's shacking up with a jobless broke bum? Her fantasy world has been shattered and she knows it.


----------



## snap

Still I'd expect them to move in together at first. He was her Plan A, and Plan B now fell through. She is invested into him emotionally. She seems to have given up bff without much fighting.

If they do move in together though, you can bet they'd try to milk you for all they can to fund their new love nest. Remember that convo you heard on VAR mocking your perceived frugality? To them you are just a dude with money.


----------



## happyman64

BFF

You can clear the air with your coworkers.

It will stop them from being curious.


Just give them the short & sweet version.

HM64


----------



## jh52

"Back at work, today. Took down the pictures in my office of me and STBxW. I don't yet know what I'm going to say to my coworkers. All they know is I took Friday off for a "family emergency", so I'm sure they'll all be curious. Wonder if I should just get it out in the open?"

BFF you don't need any criticism now what you are going through == so don't take this the wrong way.

You seem to want to avoid what is there in front of your face. Now you are getting divorced and don't know what to tell your co-workers. Tell them the truth == you are getting divorced. No details necessary.

Maybe it's to avoid conflict, maybe it's thinking if I don't say it it is not real -- but this is something that you and IC should discuss.

Again -- this is not bashing you -- but from observing what you have written about stbxw and asswipe friend and now the co-workers.

At least think about it !!


----------



## TwiceBitten

It's sad for me to see how many marriages are tainted/hurt by EA...It's been one month since I witnessed H touching the OW under the table within one foot of my less than one-half hour after being affectionate with me.
Although we've been thru the confrontation and, I hope, the worst of the pain, I find myself having doubts about him ever changing long term. I agree with the contributors on this site who say that the married people who participate in EA and PA have low self esteem and are incredibly selfish. My H has even admitted that, but what keeps them, then, from repeating the same patterns over and over when they find someone who gives them the attention and stroking they seem to crave?
My H says he is "working on himself and finding out who he is" via books and videos, and I know he is watching/listening to these things and trying to apply them, but is that enough to fix his issues? I don't know.
The EA he had was with someone who sought out my "close" friendship so that she (and her husband) could be a part of our lives...camp with us, have mutual friends, travel with us. She takes no responsibility at all for the destruction, nor the participation, blames it all on my H and states that I am crazy/making up stories. I find myself wondering why I am sticking around to deal with all of the fallout from something I did not do...and wondering will it be worth it, ever? Or will I be back in this place because my H can't figure out how to love himself and actually feel empathy for other people....


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

jh52 said:


> "Back at work, today. Took down the pictures in my office of me and STBxW. I don't yet know what I'm going to say to my coworkers. All they know is I took Friday off for a "family emergency", so I'm sure they'll all be curious. Wonder if I should just get it out in the open?"
> 
> BFF you don't need any criticism now what you are going through == so don't take this the wrong way.
> 
> You seem to want to avoid what is there in front of your face. Now you are getting divorced and don't know what to tell your co-workers. Tell them the truth == you are getting divorced. No details necessary.
> 
> Maybe it's to avoid conflict, maybe it's thinking if I don't say it it is not real -- but this is something that you and IC should discuss.
> 
> Again -- this is not bashing you -- but from observing what you have written about stbxw and asswipe friend and now the co-workers.
> 
> At least think about it !!


Yup just keep it simple. My wife and I are getting a divorce. It's a difficult time for both of us and as far as details we're keeping things private.


----------



## bff

Hey everyone. I feel like I've done a bit of disservice in describing my STBxW. I don't want to portray her as a money grubbing, big spending , high maintenance type of person with expensive tastes. She is NOT that at all. I think it is important for anyone reading this thread now or in the future to know that she, on the surface, really did seem like a very good, practical person.

When I say that she was accustomed to spending money, I mean that it just never occurred to her to SACRIFICE anything in order to save money for the future. We bought this big house and immediately was already getting estimates for new floors, painting the walls, new fixtures in the bathrooms, etc. etc. without ever really consulting me on any of it. She's never spent a lot of money on clothing, shoes or stuff like that. She's never demanded expensive cars, etc. 

So, demonizing her as a spendthrift isn't accurate. Sorry, but I let that get out of control and it isn't right. She's done a lot to hurt me, but "cleaning me out" isn't a primary sin.


----------



## snap

Bff, you sure are better at making money than me, so am not going to give you an advice on finances.

Just remember your STBX has surprised you before. Watch your back.


----------



## bff

JH and others. When I said that I didn't know what to tell the co-workers, I meant about the details. I wasn't sure if I should say, "My wife and I are getting a divorce," or "I found out my wife and my best friend have been having an affair for the last 6 years, so I'm divorcing her."

Trust me - I have fully accepted what's happening, here!

Honestly, I feel like I've been too eager to tell people the full details. I don't know why that seems therapeutic for me. This is still really fresh and I haven't settled into any sort of new rhythm, yet. I've found that when I'm actively talking about it, I'm "fine". It's when I'm sitting along THINKING about it, that's when the crying and the sorrow and the breakdowns occur.


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT2

bff said:


> JH and others. When I said that I didn't know what to tell the co-workers, I meant about the details. I wasn't sure if I should say, "My wife and I are getting a divorce," or "I found out my wife and my best friend have been having an affair for the last 6 years, so I'm divorcing her."
> 
> Trust me - I have fully accepted what's happening, here!
> 
> Honestly, I feel like I've been too eager to tell people the full details. I don't know why that seems therapeutic for me. This is still really fresh and I haven't settled into any sort of new rhythm, yet. I've found that when I'm actively talking about it, I'm "fine". It's when I'm sitting along THINKING about it, that's when the crying and the sorrow and the breakdowns occur.


I don't think spreading the details around your work place is what you need right now. For the time being I would just let them know about the divorce.


----------



## aug

bff said:


> Hey everyone. I feel like I've done a bit of disservice in describing my STBxW. I don't want to portray her as a money grubbing, big spending , high maintenance type of person with expensive tastes. She is NOT that at all. I think it is important for anyone reading this thread now or in the future to know that she, on the surface, really did seem like a very good, practical person.
> 
> When I say that she was accustomed to spending money, I mean that it just never occurred to her to SACRIFICE anything in order to save money for the future. We bought this big house and immediately was already getting estimates for new floors, painting the walls, new fixtures in the bathrooms, etc. etc. without ever really consulting me on any of it. She's never spent a lot of money on clothing, shoes or stuff like that. She's never demanded expensive cars, etc.
> 
> So, demonizing her as a spendthrift isn't accurate. Sorry, but I let that get out of control and it isn't right. She's done a lot to hurt me, but "cleaning me out" isn't a primary sin.


Yes, she'll be okay. She's practical, she was less invested in the relationship, so she'll move on easier.

Learning to sacrifice for the future can easily be learnt when she needs to. She never had to in the past.


----------



## jh52

bff said:


> JH and others. When I said that I didn't know what to tell the co-workers, I meant about the details. I wasn't sure if I should say, "My wife and I are getting a divorce," or "I found out my wife and my best friend have been having an affair for the last 6 years, so I'm divorcing her."
> 
> Trust me - I have fully accepted what's happening, here!
> 
> Honestly, I feel like I've been too eager to tell people the full details. I don't know why that seems therapeutic for me. This is still really fresh and I haven't settled into any sort of new rhythm, yet. I've found that when I'm actively talking about it, I'm "fine". It's when I'm sitting along THINKING about it, that's when the crying and the sorrow and the breakdowns occur.


BFF -- only you can decide how much to say with co-workers.

I have co-workers who are like family to me and I would probably tell them more. Other I would just keep it simple.

Once again, only you can decide.

Good luck !!


----------



## lovelygirl

It's no one's business to know anything about your private life unless they are your friends outside of work.
I'd suggest you confess about the OM and your STBX only to those who know these two personally. This way they'll know what piece of sh*tty cheaters those two are.


----------



## Fvstringpicker

bff said:


> Hey everyone. I feel like I've done a bit of disservice in describing my STBxW. I don't want to portray her as a money grubbing, big spending , high maintenance type of person with expensive tastes. She is NOT that at all. I think it is important for anyone reading this thread now or in the future to know that she, on the surface, really did seem like a very good, practical person.


Perhaps "Jekyll and Hyde", would be better than "high maintenance" in your case. Sorry, I couldn't contain myself.


----------



## LastUnicorn

bff said:


> JH and others. When I said that I didn't know what to tell the co-workers, I meant about the details. I wasn't sure if I should say, "My wife and I are getting a divorce," or "I found out my wife and my best friend have been having an affair for the last 6 years, so I'm divorcing her."
> 
> Trust me - I have fully accepted what's happening, here!
> 
> Honestly, I feel like I've been too eager to tell people the full details. I don't know why that seems therapeutic for me. This is still really fresh and I haven't settled into any sort of new rhythm, yet. I've found that when I'm actively talking about it, I'm "fine". It's when I'm sitting along THINKING about it, that's when the crying and the sorrow and the breakdowns occur.


You can always say more later to coworkers if you feel the need to. I'm glad to hear you have good friends you can talk to while you get through this. It IS therapeutic to talk about it. You've done nothing to be ashamed of.


----------



## Almostrecovered

I think people you work closest to and supervisors should be told the short of it, it will affect your work after all.


----------



## Shooboomafoo

Find a few close people you can talk to. People who have gone thru it, and can sympathize with the chaos that is your emotions right now. I would maintain a pure sense of dignity and professionalism at work. No matter what, as soon as you start talking about going thru a difficult time with co-workers, theres always someone thats going to use it against you, or place you in that frame of being "out of sorts" lately. You dont want any of this to affect your employment or the perception those who have hired you have of you.


----------



## Ansley

Don't give out all the details at work--work people are the worst about gossip.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bff

Can someone give me a direct link to the Shamwow thread(s) that have been mentioned? I searched but found just hundreds of threads shamwow commented on.

I was reading lots of stuff before my decision to D, but I haven't read much (other than the stages of grief, thanks!) on the feeling after being betrayed.

TIA


----------



## snap

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ls-lot-sex-life-has-stalled-worried-help.html


----------



## Unsure in Seattle

Snap beat me to it-


----------



## Almostrecovered

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ls-lot-sex-life-has-stalled-worried-help.html

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/31388-go-time-time-go-sucks.html


----------



## Almostrecovered

2nd link is when he went to file for D


----------



## Scottt

Here's Shamwow's thread:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ls-lot-sex-life-has-stalled-worried-help.html


----------



## Almostrecovered

I wish it wouldn't take so long to get the link


----------



## Almostrecovered

it worked-




> _Last Activity: Today 01:13 PM
> Current Activity: Viewing Thread Go time...and time to go. Sucks..._


----------



## MattMatt

Fvstringpicker said:


> The reality is that if she truly loved him she wouldn't have been banging his so called best friend time and time again. When a wife is banging other guys, it means she don't love you.


It might not be that cut and dried. But if she could do this to someone she truly loved, doesn't that, somehow, make her betrayal even worse?:scratchhead:


----------



## MattMatt

snap said:


> Still I'd expect them to move in together at first. He was her Plan A, and Plan B now fell through. She is invested into him emotionally. She seems to have given up bff without much fighting.
> 
> If they do move in together though, you can bet they'd try to milk you for all they can to fund their new love nest. Remember that convo you heard on VAR mocking your perceived frugality? To them you are just a dude with money.


She had plans A and B? Nope! She was on plan C! Two loving husbands for ever and ever! And an adopted child to bless the whole union!

La La PinkNFluffy land is full of such nonsense.


----------



## MarriedTex

BFF,

The reason why it's therapeutic to tell other people is that you are clearly the wronged party in all of this. No matter what details we on the Internet may or may not know about your relationship, NOTHING justifies her long-term betrayal of you and your relationship. Every time somebody confirms that the way she & best friend treated you is awful, it's a validation that she has hurt you in a profound and meaningful way. In short, they are telling you that it is right to be feeling as miserable as you do right now.

In that vein, I would tell my immediate superiors what happened. It will affect your work over time. Somebody in your office should know the full details - regardless of what that means on the gossip wires. It will get out there, but you need only tell one or two people. Let other people find out through the grapevine. I would imagine that more widespread knowledge of your situation would only invoke sympathy from your colleagues. Better to get that out now rather than having word get out two months from now. When you get sympathies on the relationship at that point, it will only trigger memories of this horrible week. Just get the truth out there now.

Good to hear that you have a therapist already. Was this person in place before these revelations? What issues were you trying to address with the therapist before all of this happened? It may be a good idea to double up - or triple up- on sessions for the next couple of weeks to help you work through these emotions.

You have a much better life awaiting you once you come out the other side of this. You are clearly intelligent and seem remarkably well-grounded to be dealing with this situation in the manner that you have. Your income level will make you an attractive catch, as well. How's your fitness? Now would be a great time to work out your anger in they gym, and the resulting benefits in health/fitness won't hurt, either.

When you are ready (a month, six months, a decade from now), you will have your pick of really great women who can be loving AND loyal. Today is terrible. But the future is so bright, you should go out and buy yourself some shades.


----------



## sandc

bff said:


> BTW - you have to find a little humor in this to stay sane... a common friend of OM and me who didn't yet know what was going on sent me an email yesterday saying, "Hey, if you see OM, tell him to get some sleep. He sounded horrible on the phone when I talked to him today."


Nice! :smthumbup:




bff said:


> Back at work, today. Took down the pictures in my office of me and STBxW. I don't yet know what I'm going to say to my coworkers. All they know is I took Friday off for a "family emergency", so I'm sure they'll all be curious. Wonder if I should just get it out in the open?


I wouldn't bother. They'll notice the pictures are down and get the message.


----------



## Jellybeans

You don't have to tell your colleagues anything if you don't want to. 

When I went through my divorce I never spoke of it at work. It's such a personal thing, that, relationships. But I am the kind of person who keeps my professional and private life very separate. I am not at work to make friends.

Have you heard from your wife at all? Did you ever contact the bff? Has he reached out to you?

Hope you are doing well. It's a painful thing to endure but I can promise you that it does get better.


----------



## bff

Thank you so much, Tex! It is comforting to hear this. I know it in my heart, but there are a lot of miserable feelings around the surface right not that make if difficult to focus that far out on better days.

I contacted the therapist the day I found the "smoldering gun" and set up an appointment, my first ever with a therapist, for Friday afternoon before I confronted. I have no reference point for what a good or bad therapist does or says, but I was immediately comfortable talking to her and she did have one or two small gems of insight that made me stronger and more confident about what I was about to do.

I have a long list of things that I'll want to work through with her. Some of them about what's going on right now as a RESULT of all the betrayal, but I also need to look back further around how I did contribute to at least allowing this to go on so long. It can only be good for me to deal with those feelings out in the open.

BTW - just read a little bit of Shamwow's story, and he seems like a kindred soul for me. I know it ends in divorce, but I'm looking forward to seeing how the whole thing plays out. So much of what I've already read really resonated with me.


----------



## sandc

bff said:


> Hey everyone. I feel like I've done a bit of disservice in describing my STBxW. I don't want to portray her as a money grubbing, big spending , high maintenance type of person with expensive tastes. She is NOT that at all. I think it is important for anyone reading this thread now or in the future to know that she, on the surface, really did seem like a very good, practical person.
> 
> When I say that she was accustomed to spending money, I mean that it just never occurred to her to SACRIFICE anything in order to save money for the future. We bought this big house and immediately was already getting estimates for new floors, painting the walls, new fixtures in the bathrooms, etc. etc. without ever really consulting me on any of it. She's never spent a lot of money on clothing, shoes or stuff like that. She's never demanded expensive cars, etc.
> 
> So, demonizing her as a spendthrift isn't accurate. Sorry, but I let that get out of control and it isn't right. She's done a lot to hurt me, but "cleaning me out" isn't a primary sin.


Dude, I know she's done a lot hurt you. But let me tell you you she'll but hurting REALLY badly when she finally realizes what she gave up. It was her that gave up after all, not you.


----------



## bff

Jellybeans - I heard from her yesterday, she wanted to talk. I told her there was nothing to talk about and that she wasn't getting a second chance. When I told her I was filing, she expressed her regrets but accepted it. I'm not going to get upset that she isn't fighting for our marriage. Maybe she has come to the same conclusion I have - our relationship was a lot more hollow than it looked from the outside. Whether that was cause or effect in regards to the affair almost doesn't matter now.

OM tried to call and text just the morning of the confrontation. Haven't heard from him again. I did find his address and home phone number. Now debating what to do with that info. I don't have his GF's email or direct phone number, which would make contacting her easier. I don't want to risk leaving a message and him finding it. I have a very small, but real, worry that me telling his GF might send him over the cliff which could result in violence (toward me).


----------



## Jellybeans

If you are on Facebook, maybe you can find the girlfriend that way. Have you ever met her before?

If the OM tries to come at you with any bullsh*t or violence, call the cops on him. He fcked your wife. He can't expect you to be happy about it. Or his girlfriend. When you play with fire... 

Seems a little too late for him to be worried about you trying to interfere with his life when he was doing you dirty that whole time (he and your wife). 

I would continue to ignore him as you. Rest assured, he is probably going NUTS because he has no clue what is on your mind/what you are thinking.


----------



## iheartlife

bff said:


> OM tried to call and text just the morning of the confrontation. Haven't heard from him again. I did find his address and home phone number. Now debating what to do with that info.


Sorry--I have tried to keep up with your thread, but clearly I've missed something. Why don't you already know this information? Again, apologies if I'm making you repeat if you've already explained this.


----------



## keko

Does any of your friends have her number? Maybe they can drop by explain the situation?


----------



## AngryandUsed

BFF,

Is your STBxW remorseful? Nah, at least feeling guilty about it?
I dont get the impression that she is remorseful. I think she has resolved to deal with "having been caught".

I appreciate your clarifications on your wife. That she does not demand expensive items etc. You still have good feelings for her. God bless you.

I am not clear when you describe your marriage as "hollow". Do you believe that because of those "hollow" things, she chose to cheat?

How is your eating, sleeping? 

How do you really feel now?


----------



## the guy

As far as work goes, I had a bad experience trying to stay at work and work thru it. I gave me a bad rap and was labled a flake, I was called into the office (a month after d-day) and the boss told me I should have taken the time off.
See, now I have a long road ahead of me in getting rid of this reputation. My productivity went down, additude was crappy, and my attentence was low. 

Its funny how poeple remember the bad thing about you and forget the 15 years of great service.

So if I remember correctly I gave Shamwow the same story and he did infact take a week off to get it together.

So please inform the boss about the infidelity and the divorce and work out something that will give you the time off. 

As far as details, it is up to and the relationship you have with your boss and your co worker.

In my case I had a 15 year relationship with some coworkers and in some case some coworkes I knew longer, so I did tell some details more then others...you know depending on the relationship with the co worker.

Lets face it office cocip will get around so real whats it matter?

But please consider taking some time off, it not worth trying to force something thats just not there yet. Your reputation is at stake.


----------



## the guy

As far as the girl friend, go a head and expose and let this guy go after you, get a RO and make him out to be the POS he really is.

Do not be intiminated, he may not be smart so he may not see the damage he will cause to him self. If he was smart he himself should do some damage control and stay away from every one.

He won't and it will make for a great set up on your part to show everyone what a POS he really is.

So go for it and expose. Do not talk to him just find his chick and let her know.

And make sure you use the VAR


----------



## KanDo

I have read your story from the sidelines for the most part. They all end up reading very similarly, except only a few BS have the fortitude to respect themselves and avoid the false recovery trap. Your story reminds me of mine in many ways. 

My heart goes out to you as you continue down your path. I am here to tell you that it DOES get better. You will have an emotional roller-coaster ride in the weeks and months that go by. Expect the wrath of an indignant spouse to arise as the shock of your pending divorce dissipates. Be prepared to be vilified by your STBXW to anyone who will listen. Make sure you have exposed the truth to those who are important to you before her re-write of history surfaces.

It is hard to see a large chunk of the wealth you have created go to a cheating spouse. But, it will be worth it in the end to have her out of your life.


----------



## Almostrecovered

saw this recently and it reminds me of bff


----------



## OldWolf57

bff, do not fear that scum. He will be angry for you telling her, but your friends will clean his clock if he so much as breath in your direction.
And see, this may be another reason you overlooked their relationship so long. Afraid to say someting to him to piss him off. Well, if so and never realized, this is the perfect time to start working on those things in your makeup that contributed to this.
If he comes to your house call the cops. if he approach you in public, tell him you have nothing to say to someone like him. 
That frind that asked of him said he sounded bad, well you know why. think of all the help you have given him over the years. He know what type of friend he has lost, along with the many others in your circle. AND, he has to be worried if his girl will find out. So yeah, he sounded bad. See, he don't know who his girl is going to find out from first, you or another friend. She may not run in the group, but I bet someone in the group know her.
but don't you never let fear keep you from speaking out again.
And remember, it not a fair fight if you only use your hands. THATS RIGHT the way I said it. If this guy approach you with intent to hurt you, pick up the nearest object a start swinging like a mad man. He has done enough harm to you. Do NOT let him hurt you physically too.


----------



## Mike11

bff said:


> Thank you so much, Tex! It is comforting to hear this. I know it in my heart, but there are a lot of miserable feelings around the surface right not that make if difficult to focus that far out on better days.
> 
> I contacted the therapist the day I found the "smoldering gun" and set up an appointment, my first ever with a therapist, for Friday afternoon before I confronted. I have no reference point for what a good or bad therapist does or says, but I was immediately comfortable talking to her and she did have one or two small gems of insight that made me stronger and more confident about what I was about to do.
> 
> I have a long list of things that I'll want to work through with her. Some of them about what's going on right now as a RESULT of all the betrayal, but I also need to look back further around how I did contribute to at least allowing this to go on so long. It can only be good for me to deal with those feelings out in the open.
> 
> BTW - just read a little bit of Shamwow's story, and he seems like a kindred soul for me. I know it ends in divorce, but I'm looking forward to seeing how the whole thing plays out. So much of what I've already read really resonated with me.


bff

It resonates with all of us, although I was not betrayed the same way you have (or Shamwow for that matter) but some traumatic events can cause the same fallout, 

I do looked at him (and at you for that matter) as a blueprint of how a decent and strong man should behave in the face of this type of life altering events and indeed this is a very much desired no BS, dignified moral behavior that is an example to all of us here 

I offer my sympathy to you in your situation and commend you for the way you have handled your situation, and have you in my pryers that you will come out of it stronger 

Mike


----------



## bff

Although I'm having small near-break-down moments here at the office (I just signed the divorce petition and sent it back to my attorney), having the distraction and being out of the mostly-empty house is helping me on balance. I've made plans for nearly every evening this week to be with friends.

My direct boss is getting married this weekend, so I'm probably not going to give him all the sordid details. I don't want to taint him!

I've let a couple of others know who are close to me. They all say the same thing - I'm soooo sorry, and what can I do to help? I've basically just asked for a little empathy and understanding if I disappear on short notice to either take care of things or if I'm having a mini-meltdown.

I'm not eating much, but I have imposed a NO FAST FOOD rule, as I could easily see myself slipping into a trap of poor eating. My STBxW did all of the cooking (or ordering out, or picking up prepared food, etc.) so this is another adjustment for me. I lived on my own for 10 years before we were together, so I will manage just fine. It's just another part of my new reality. I am being careful to make sure that I'm not cutting corners, here. I'll be getting fish, veggies, etc. instead of frozen dinners. She had a real sweet tooth, and this is my opportunity to keep that crap out of the house altogether. I am hoping that cooking will be therapeutic for me.

I feel just a TINY bit better today than yesterday. I'm proud of my own resolve, and the blue sky on the other side of the fog seems attainable.


----------



## happyman64

Life will get better for you.

Because you will make it happen.

And you know what, be thankful there were no children in the mix.

That is a small blessing.


----------



## the guy

hang in ther brother and Don't forget you have a place to straighten out so its not so empty. 

I still think you could use a week off to have time to grieve and set the house up and get things the way you want them.

Like you said you have things in place for the evening, but what is wrong with having some alone time and getting what you can get done around the house, if you do melt down it won't effect your work.

Dude I was melting down alot at work and as the time passed even one week I was better then that 1st week. If your melting down every hour on the hour, then it might be good to wait until next week when you just melt down once a day.

Again brother just concerned b/c I'v been there...you know whats best.


----------



## Jellybeans

Bff--at the wedding, if people ask "How's wife/If wife coming" you can just say "She won't be attending." 

You dont have to go into details. 

Definitely try to eat some food, get sunlight, and exercise. It's good you are keeping busy this week.

I am still a lil confused as to how you didn't know where bff lives or know much about his girlf? Confused because you say he's your bff.


----------



## MattMatt

AngryandUsed said:


> BFF,
> 
> Is your STBxW remorseful? Nah, at least feeling guilty about it?
> I dont get the impression that she is remorseful. I think she has resolved to deal with "having been caught".
> 
> I appreciate your clarifications on your wife. That she does not demand expensive items etc. You still have good feelings for her. God bless you.
> 
> I am not clear when you describe your marriage as "hollow". Do you believe that because of those "hollow" things, she chose to cheat?
> 
> How is your eating, sleeping?
> 
> How do you really feel now?


After so many years of successfully living a double life, she might well be in shock at being found out. When she is out of the shock, things might get interesting.

She might accept the blame (allowing bff to file as she knows what she did is unforgivable) try to blame bff _"Well, he should have known what was going on!"_ or she might blame the OM.

Hopefully nobody will do anything stupid...


----------



## bff

JellyBean - Yeah, I can see how that would be strange. I have only been to his house once in the about 8 years that I've known him. He's been to our house (at least the times I knew about) hundreds of times. I've never actually been introduced to his GF. I think I said in an earlier post that I'd only met her a few times. Like I admitted before, I changed some facts early on so no one would identify this thread with me. I have called his cell phone 1000 times, but I never had a use for his home number.

I'm going to try calling his home number when I know he's at work to see if I get lucky and she picks up.


----------



## sandc

Only been to his house once in the 8 years you've known him? How was he your best friend then? Did he just buddy up to you to get to your wife?


----------



## bff

I'm not going to bother with all the details, but it's not quite as strange as it sounds. He lives 30+ miles in the "wrong" direction and there are lots of reasons (work and other - don't bother with any bad jokes, here) for him to be in the area around our house pretty much 7 days a week.


----------



## sandc

bff said:


> I'm not going to bother with all the details, but it's not quite as strange as it sounds. He lives 30+ miles in the "wrong" direction and there are lots of reasons (work and other - don't bother with any bad jokes, here) for him to be in the area around our house pretty much 7 days a week.


10-4. Just curious.


----------



## bff

Each day is a little better. Had some very civil contact with the STBxW who wants to come by the old house to collect a few things left over here (for the cats). I can only hope this level of civility and cooperation continues!

MIL called my mom yesterday to try to convince her to try to convince me that R is possible. My mom, whom my father cheated on for years when I was in elementary school before she finally divorced him, kept cool and just said that she supported my decision.

My phone keeps ringing throughout the day and evening - TRUE friends calling just to chat and keep me busy, checking in to see that I'm OK. I've gotten half a dozen offers of "come and stay with us!" But, I feel like not abandoning my neighborhood is important to me now. Even though all the memories in the house I'm staying in haunt me a little, on balance I think standing my ground there is helping me. Why should I have to run and hide at a friend's house?

TV on order. Cable and internet being installed Friday. My first small steps towards building my own new life.


----------



## sandc

Good man. 

She really screwed the pooch didn't she? Rhetorical question. No triggers intended.


----------



## Caribbean Man

bff said:


> Each day is a little better. Had some very civil contact with the STBxW who wants to come by the old house to collect a few things left over here (for the cats). I can only hope this level of civility and cooperation continues!
> 
> MIL called my mom yesterday to try to convince her to try to convince me that R is possible. My mom, whom my father cheated on for years when I was in elementary school before she finally divorced him, kept cool and just said that she supported my decision.
> 
> My phone keeps ringing throughout the day and evening - TRUE friends calling just to chat and keep me busy, checking in to see that I'm OK. I've gotten half a dozen offers of "come and stay with us!" *But, I feel like not abandoning my neighborhood is important to me now. Even though all the memories in the house I'm staying in haunt me a little, on balance I think standing my ground there is helping me. Why should I have to run and hide at a friend's house?*
> 
> TV on order. Cable and internet being installed Friday. My first small steps towards building my own new life.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

In life, I have learned to do three important things when faced with uncertainty and confusion.

1]Never RUN
2] Never Back DOWN
3] Never Hide

Always move forward,step by step.Even though those steps may be painfully slow, at times.
A large part of a successful life or business is overcoming obstacles. 

BTW,
Never fear what the OM could do if you told his significant other. Right now he is shaking in his boots and afraid that you would tell her. 

Don't disappoint him.............


----------



## iJordan

bff said:


> TV on order. Cable and internet being installed Friday. My first small steps towards building my own new life.


Get that mantuary built!


----------



## spudster

Sad when the MIL wants R more than her cheating child. She just saw her chances at becoming a grandmother go up in smoke. Methinks the STBXW is playing it cool. She knows better than to act self righteous in any way. I think she feels like all her family and friends will pigpile her at the slightest hint she is not sorry for what she did.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bff

Thanks, Caribbean Man! I agree.

As for telling the OM's GF, I was thinking about giving it a week so he thinks he got away with it, then contacting her so she can totally surprise him. But, then again, who knows what decisions she faces today or tomorrow that she might make differently if she knows the truth. For me, where we were with the adoption was at a critical juncture. The difference a week could have made was significant.


----------



## spudster

Quit being afraid of the OM. 

Ever think that's why your wife was attracted to him? He was alpha to your omega. 

Mess with his life. You've earned the right to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## snap

He was the dude who made your wife sip from his glass right in front of you. Time to make him choke.


----------



## bff

Alright, I manned up and am trying to contact her. The home phone number listed is disconnected (money problems, I'm guessing...) I thought I knew the grocery store that she managed, but I've spent 10 minutes calling different ones, got to a central manager who never heard her name. I've tried facebook, linkedin and just combing through the google searches. Any other ideas?

While I'm not fond of the idea of staking out his house and following her to work, it would be worth taking a day off to do that if necessary.

Other ideas before I have to resort to that?


----------



## bff

Forget it. I was being stupid in my searching. Found her on facebook through the OM's page. Message sent. Waiting...


----------



## MrK

snap said:


> He was the dude who made your wife sip from his glass right in front of you.


You know, at the time I'm sure it just seemed odd. A little red flag. In hindsight, he might as well have been sucking her tongue right in front of you. Their little joke. How cute.

Yeah, make him suffer.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Caribbean Man said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree:
> 
> In life, I have learned to do three important things when faced with uncertainty and confusion.
> 
> 1]Never RUN
> 2] Never Back DOWN
> 3] Never Hide
> 
> Always move forward,step by step.Even though those steps may be painfully slow, at times.
> A large part of a successful life or business is overcoming obstacles.
> 
> BTW,
> Never fear what the OM could do if you told his significant other. Right now he is shaking in his boots and afraid that you would tell her.
> 
> Don't disappoint him.............


Agree, and don't stop with his girlfriend.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Eli-Zor

bff said:


> Forget it. I was being stupid in my searching. Found her on facebook through the OM's page. Message sent. Waiting...


If you have access to his page you should expose to any family he has on there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

MrK said:


> You know, at the time I'm sure it just seemed odd. A little red flag. In hindsight, he might as well have been sucking her tongue right in front of you. Their little joke. How cute.
> 
> Yeah, *make him suffer*.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

While I've since come to realize that the focus of my wrath should mostly have been on my wayward ex, I still get pleasure thinking about how I fvcked up the OM by going thermo-nuclear and sending email copies of the 200-plus pages of explicit FB and email conversations between him and my ex to his boss and ALL of his coworkers (even the secretary). This, in addition to cc'ing the PTA and sending a thumb drive to his wife.

I expected him to fly across the country and take me on mano a mano but, instead, he had his lawyer send me a letter warning me to stop such communications. Which I did -- not because of the legal threat (because the way I was feeling I didn't care) -- but because I had made him hurt almost as much as I was hurting.


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## happyman64

BFF

Good for you. Make the old house your house.

And I am glad you are seeking his GF out. That is the right thing to do.

On a final note your Mom sounds awesome and has your back.

Give her a hug when you next see her.

HM64


----------



## MattMatt

happyman64 said:


> BFF
> 
> Good for you. Make the old house your house.
> 
> And I am glad you are seeking his GF out. That is the right thing to do.
> 
> On a final note your Mom sounds awesome and has your back.
> 
> Give her a hug when you next see her.
> 
> HM64


I feel sorry for you, bff, of course. But I also feel sympathy for your MIL. Finding out your child is a, well, what she is must be a shock.


----------



## MarriedTex

MrK said:


> You know, at the time I'm sure it just seemed odd. A little red flag. In hindsight, he might as well have been sucking her tongue right in front of you. Their little joke. How cute.
> 
> Yeah, make him suffer.


This detail plus the OM and wife laughing about BFF's spending habits while talking on the phone (heard via VAR) both really struck chords with me on how callous they both were to BFF during this whole situation. 

Trouble is, this was probably only the tip of the iceberg of their disrespect. I really don't want to hear how long they were going behind his back. The details of their indiscretion make me seethe with anger on BFF's behalf. BFF is handling this thousands of times better than I ever could. 

That said, BFF. There will be some point in this process where you do feel anger. Don't stuff it down. Don't be stoic. Let yourself be mad at the right time. It's part of the healing process.


----------



## Chaparral

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree:
> 
> While I've since come to realize that the focus of my wrath should mostly have been on my wayward ex, I still get pleasure thinking about how I fvcked up the OM by going thermo-nuclear and sending email copies of the 200-plus pages of explicit FB and email conversations between him and my ex to his boss and ALL of his coworkers (even the secretary). This, in addition to cc'ing the PTA and sending a thumb drive to his wife.
> 
> I expected him to fly across the country and take me on mano a mano but, instead, he had his lawyer send me a letter warning me to stop such communications. Which I did -- not because of the legal threat (because the way I was feeling I didn't care) -- but because I had made him hurt almost as much as I was hurting.



I'm courious as to what his lawyer could have done.


----------



## Chaparral

Hire painters have eveything painted different colors. Decorator?

Pool table/pingpong combo? Bar, giant screen projector. Keg

Uuuuum.............stereo,bluray etc.


----------



## Chaparral

Might as well get some furniture too.

Have you canceled joint accts?


----------



## Shaggy

And buy a hot new vehicle.


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## jh52

Do whatever and buy whatever you want -- not need -- but want.

You deserve this BFF.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

chapparal said:


> I'm courious as to what his lawyer could have done.


The letter had legal mumbo jumbo about me violating federal and state statutes, including The Stored Communications Act, Abuse of Mails, Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress and Tortuous Interference with Contract. I didn't give a shiite about any of this. I can just imagine how he screamed and bawled like a little girl when he opened that email and saw all the people that were copied on it.


----------



## bff

Thanks for the encouragement, folks. The funny (?) thing is, we started to really fix the place up because we were going to sell it. We remodeled the kitchen, all new doorknobs, painted, some landscaping, powerwashed the decks, etc. The place looks AWESOME, and I was initially bummed that we weren't going to get to enjoy all the improvements ourselves. If only I knew...

I'm resisting the urge to spend a dime on anything beyond the bare necessities. Not sure why, but I feel like a few months of rather austere living might be really good for me. OK, a new TV and the every-channel-in-the-world cable package aren't exactly minimalist in nature, but you know what I mean. I want to see where I land, financially, after the divorce is settled. It's not going to be bad, but it's only going to be half as good as it is today. I have to say that I consider myself INCREDIBLY INCREDIBLY fortunate in this regard. My heart breaks for the folks in some of the threads that I've read where both parties (or even one) are left in financial ruin at the end. This is stressful enough, and that's just with dividing up a pretty big pie. I can't imagine throwing financial survival into the mix as a concern. That must be horrible.

I want to focus on ME, and not by getting a car, but by spending more time on my bike or more time on the trails or more time on the beach. I'm blessed to live in a place with incredible resources, and since I've been married, I've stopped taking advantage of those (NOT blaming W for that!) but it is time to get back to the basics and diversify myself a little.


----------



## lordmayhem

bff said:


> Forget it. I was being stupid in my searching. Found her on facebook through the OM's page. Message sent. Waiting...


Keep in mind the possibility that OM might intercept your message. This happened to ing. He sent a message to the OMW, and OM intercepted, and sent a message back to ing, while pretending to be the OMW. The OM, posing as the OMW, told ing that she didn't care about his affairs because she was having her own affairs. Later on, ing sent another message to the OMW, and this time the OM didn't intercept it, and the OMW was devastated, she hadn't known the whole time. It was only then that the OMW threw ing's WW under the bus and the affair ended because the OM was scrambing to save his marriage. OM thought he was being so clever. So keep this in mind.

If possible, you should send a certified letter by mail and ask her to contact you. Because you don't know if the OM is waiting for you to try to expose the affair his GF.


----------



## bff

Really good point about intercepting that. Who knows if he gets to the computer first, it's open to her FB page and he sees it. If I get the brush off, I'll contact her at work. Once I found her page, I was able to find out where she works. I had the right store chain but the wrong city.

And for the record, I don't have "access" to his page. I am friends with him, so I can see HIS list of friends. Parents are probably in that list, too. Not sure how I feel about contacting them, though. His GF, yes. His folks, not so sure.


----------



## Ansley

bff said:


> Really good point about intercepting that. Who knows if he gets to the computer first, it's open to her FB page and he sees it. If I get the brush off, I'll contact her at work. Once I found her page, I was able to find out where she works. I had the right store chain but the wrong city.
> 
> And for the record, I don't have "access" to his page. I am friends with him, so I can see HIS list of friends. Parents are probably in that list, too. Not sure how I feel about contacting them, though. His GF, yes. His folks, not so sure.


You are a good person and that comes across loud and clear. They are all adults and can deal with it. No one took a second to protect your feelings.


----------



## Wazza

You have a lot of pain and you need to let it out, but given your logical handling of things so far, I'm sure you get the need to not let this make you bitter and twisted. I don't see how hurting a lot of other people who were presumably innocent helps things.

So I wouldn't contact the parents. I could understand it if you were trying to create pressure for OM to back off so you could save the marriage. Can't see a reason to do it given your choice not to reconcile.


----------



## Ansley

Wazza said:


> You have a lot of pain and you need to let it out, but given your logical handling of things so far, I'm sure you get the need to not let this make you bitter and twisted. I don't see how hurting a lot of other people who were presumably innocent helps things.
> 
> So I wouldn't contact the parents. I could understand it if you were trying to create pressure for OM to back off so you could save the marriage. Can't see a reason to do it given your choice not to reconcile.



i respectfully disagree...
his mom knows
WW mom knows (and is neck deep in trying to get them to work it out)
the friends know
the co-workers will begin asking questions soon
the adoption is called off 
bff isnt living in the new house he bought

The only person who hasnt been thus affected is a major player in the deception/destruction of their marriage. MAJOR player. he needs to be exposed.


----------



## Chaparral

Ansley said:


> i respectfully disagree...
> his mom knows
> WW mom knows (and is neck deep in trying to get them to work it out)
> the friends know
> the co-workers will begin asking questions soon
> the adoption is called off
> bff isnt living in the new house he bought
> 
> The only person who hasnt been thus affected is a major player in the deception/destruction of their marriage. MAJOR player. he needs to be exposed.


At this point he is just sitting back licking his chops over his harem. He isn't worried about bff at all. He knows they were only best friends because of bff's wife who he liked to hang around. She would have been gone a long time ago if POSOM had the jack.

bff, you really need to study Married Man Sex Life Primer and No More Mister Nice Guy to see waht happened and how to prevent this in the future. It is mind blowing/opening. Guaranteed


----------



## Caribbean Man

bff said:


> Thanks for the encouragement, folks. The funny (?) thing is, we started to really fix the place up because we were going to sell it. We remodeled the kitchen, all new doorknobs, painted, some landscaping, powerwashed the decks, etc. The place looks AWESOME, and I was initially bummed that we weren't going to get to enjoy all the improvements ourselves. If only I knew...
> 
> I'm resisting the urge to spend a dime on anything beyond the bare necessities. Not sure why, but I feel like a few months of rather austere living might be really good for me. OK, a new TV and the every-channel-in-the-world cable package aren't exactly minimalist in nature, but you know what I mean. I want to see where I land, financially, after the divorce is settled. It's not going to be bad, but it's only going to be half as good as it is today. I have to say that I consider myself INCREDIBLY INCREDIBLY fortunate in this regard. My heart breaks for the folks in some of the threads that I've read where both parties (or even one) are left in financial ruin at the end. This is stressful enough, and that's just with dividing up a pretty big pie. I can't imagine throwing financial survival into the mix as a concern. That must be horrible.
> 
> *I want to focus on ME, and not by getting a car, but by spending more time on my bike or more time on the trails or more time on the beach. I'm blessed to live in a place with incredible resources, and since I've been married, I've stopped taking advantage of those (NOT blaming W for that!) but it is time to get back to the basics and diversify myself a little.*


:iagree:

I like the sound of that.
Focus on YOU, go inside and fix your " inner game."
Situations like these can do a number on your self esteem, and a woman might come at " the right time " to help you " fix it."
FORGET THAT! Only You can fix YOU.
You are young, financially stable and own your home. You have a good job , and a sound intellect.

You have what it takes get any woman.
Very soon if you play your cards right, the ladies would come to you @ " a dime a dozen ." Don't chase after them they will come.
Have all the fun and,
Enjoy your new life.


----------



## bff

If it means anything, I've met OM's parents and so has my wife. The three of us were in the area where his parents live (several hours from our home) for an event and he invited us to go out to dinner with he and his folks. They seem like really nice people. I'd hate to hurt them unnecessarily, but I know that it would be an additional dose of horrible shame on him if they knew. Also, if W and OM want to continue a relationship (presumably after his GF dumps him after I talk to her...) the parents might not be so approving if they knew the truth. Maybe I should let the GF tell them if she wants to? I imagine she's much closer to them than me - who just met them once or twice.


----------



## Wazza

Ansley said:


> i respectfully disagree...
> his mom knows
> WW mom knows (and is neck deep in trying to get them to work it out)
> the friends know
> the co-workers will begin asking questions soon
> the adoption is called off
> bff isnt living in the new house he bought
> 
> The only person who hasnt been thus affected is a major player in the deception/destruction of their marriage. MAJOR player. he needs to be exposed.


It hurts the parents who afaik are innocent. Probably much more than it hurts OM. Like it or not, he may not suffer as he seems to deserve. 

BFF is a smart guy, he is going to make the right decision. There's enough pain in the world, we should avoid adding to it where we can.


----------



## bff

Chap, I picked up No More Mister Nice Guy and, I've got to be honest, it just didn't do it for me. I totally get that me being a doormat to my wife sometimes (and also to others, I'm sure) opens me up to sub-optimal situations. I am absolutely going to work on my assertiveness. I do like the idea that I've got to identify my own needs and then be very clear about them in future relationships. But, I just couldn't "get into" the material. I'll check out MMSLP. Maybe I'll have a better connection with that one.


----------



## MattMatt

Wazza said:


> It hurts the parents who afaik are innocent. Probably much more than it hurts OM. Like it or not, he may not suffer as he seems to deserve.
> 
> BFF is a smart guy, he is going to make the right decision. There's enough pain in the world, we should avoid adding to it where we can.


If his parents know, OM might then really suffer. Unless, of course, his parents already know or suspect?


----------



## Ansley

bff said:


> If it means anything, I've met OM's parents and so has my wife. The three of us were in the area where his parents live (several hours from our home) for an event and he invited us to go out to dinner with he and his folks. They seem like really nice people. I'd hate to hurt them unnecessarily, but I know that it would be an additional dose of horrible shame on him if they knew. Also, if W and OM want to continue a relationship (presumably after his GF dumps him after I talk to her...) the parents might not be so approving if they knew the truth. Maybe I should let the GF tell them if she wants to? I imagine she's much closer to them than me - who just met them once or twice.


I hope she does. Hopefully she learns from you and does what needs to be done. People just cant go around hurting others and reaking havoc on the world. There has to be a wake up call somewhere.


----------



## bff

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree:
> 
> While I've since come to realize that the focus of my wrath should mostly have been on my wayward ex, I still get pleasure thinking about how I fvcked up the OM by going thermo-nuclear and sending email copies of the 200-plus pages of explicit FB and email conversations between him and my ex to his boss and ALL of his coworkers (even the secretary). This, in addition to cc'ing the PTA and sending a thumb drive to his wife.
> 
> I expected him to fly across the country and take me on mano a mano but, instead, he had his lawyer send me a letter warning me to stop such communications. Which I did -- not because of the legal threat (because the way I was feeling I didn't care) -- but because I had made him hurt almost as much as I was hurting.


While not the route I would have chosen, personally, I have to give you serious, serious props for having the sack to do this. This is the stuff that most of us only dream of pulling off. Has anyone bought the movie rights, yet?? ;-)


----------



## Ansley

bff said:


> While not the route I would have chosen, personally, I have to give you serious, serious props for having the sack to do this. This is the stuff that most of us only dream of pulling off. Has anyone bought the movie rights, yet?? ;-)



HAHAHAHA see you are becoming happier everyday!


----------



## theroad

bff said:


> Really good point about intercepting that. Who knows if he gets to the computer first, it's open to her FB page and he sees it. If I get the brush off, I'll contact her at work. Once I found her page, I was able to find out where she works. I had the right store chain but the wrong city.
> 
> And for the record, I don't have "access" to his page. I am friends with him, so I can see HIS list of friends. Parents are probably in that list, too. Not sure how I feel about contacting them, though. His GF, yes. His folks, not so sure.


Copy and paste OM's contact list then expose the affair to every one on his list. Specially his parents.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

bff said:


> While not the route I would have chosen, personally, I have to give you serious, serious props for having the sack to do this. This is the stuff that most of us only dream of pulling off. Has anyone bought the movie rights, yet?? ;-)


BFF, interesting that you should mention movie rights. One of the conditions that my ex wanted in the divorce settlement was that I agree to an injunction to keep me from publishing her and the OM's sexual manifesto. I told her that I had no problem with this request because I did not want my kids reading it.

Surprisingly, in the divorce decree there was no mention of the injunction and I never had to sign off on anything saying I wouldn't publish the material. This was confusing to me until a good friend of mine pointed out the obvious. Which is, if such an injunction was included in the settlement it would become part of the public record and everyone would know (instead of speculating) that she did some heinous act to cause the dissolution of the marriage.

BTW, I have about 10 copies floating around on various thumb drives, CDs, external hard drives, and in cyberspace but I don't think I'll ever make them public. The fact is I don't ever want to read any of the material ever again. This is stuff that no husband (or ex husband) should ever have to read.


----------



## betamale

If your wife and OM keep seing each other, it will show that you were 100% right about filing for divorce.


----------



## Entropy3000

bff said:


> If it means anything, I've met OM's parents and so has my wife. The three of us were in the area where his parents live (several hours from our home) for an event and he invited us to go out to dinner with he and his folks. They seem like really nice people. I'd hate to hurt them unnecessarily, but I know that it would be an additional dose of horrible shame on him if they knew. Also, if W and OM want to continue a relationship (presumably after his GF dumps him after I talk to her...) the parents might not be so approving if they knew the truth. Maybe I should let the GF tell them if she wants to? I imagine she's much closer to them than me - who just met them once or twice.


Let the chips fall where they may. None of these folks give a darn about you. Seriously. Just hold folks accountable. Any hurt that goes around is on them. But your purpose is not to hurt them. They deserve to know the truth. What your best friend did to you was reprehensiable. Do not let him off the hook. Nor your wife. Expose.

Let the truth see the light of day. There is plenty of culpability to go around.

Realize that your buddy is going to now be moving in with your wife and will be living very much on your money. Not rubbing it in but rather pointing out that this is also good reason to let everyone know what is going on. If it is not known that they were in an affair he will be seen as a hero coming to the aid of his abusive friends wife to comfort her in her time of need.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

They - whoever the are - say that things happen for a reason. BFF, I know you were disappointed over the years because your wife couldn't conceive, but think of what would've happened had she gotten pregnant with that fvcker's child. You would've probably been so happy that you might never have picked up on the fact that you were raising another man's kid.


----------



## bff

You know, I haven't been able to summon much anger so far in this process, mostly just sadness and disappointment. However, thinking through a scenario like that one first makes outraged, then awesomely relieved I'm getting out with a clean slate and bright future.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

Thats a great additude, STBXW will be kicking her self for years as she watchs you move on happy, while she drops money on guys time and again.

BTW, what are your plans and how is it going with regards to exposing to Om GF?


----------



## MattMatt

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> BFF, interesting that you should mention movie rights. One of the conditions that my ex wanted in the divorce settlement was that I agree to an injunction to keep me from publishing her and the OM's sexual manifesto. I told her that I had no problem with this request because I did not want my kids reading it.
> 
> Surprisingly, in the divorce decree there was no mention of the injunction and I never had to sign off on anything saying I wouldn't publish the material. This was confusing to me until a good friend of mine pointed out the obvious. Which is, if such an injunction was included in the settlement it would become part of the public record and everyone would know (instead of speculating) that she did some heinous act to cause the dissolution of the marriage.
> 
> BTW, I have about 10 copies floating around on various thumb drives, CDs, external hard drives, and in cyberspace but I don't think I'll ever make them public. The fact is I don't ever want to read any of the material ever again. This is stuff that no husband (or ex husband) should ever have to read.


_*They had a sexual manifesto*_??


----------



## MattMatt

the guy said:


> Thats a great additude, STBXW will be kicking her self for years as she watchs you move on happy, while she drops money on guys time and again.
> 
> BTW, what are your plans and how is it going with regards to exposing to Om GF?


My God. That poor girl! She's probably going to need some support, herself.


----------



## Eli-Zor

bff said:


> Really good point about intercepting that. Who knows if he gets to the computer first, it's open to her FB page and he sees it. If I get the brush off, I'll contact her at work. Once I found her page, I was able to find out where she works. I had the right store chain but the wrong city.
> 
> And for the record, I don't have "access" to his page. I am friends with him, so I can see HIS list of friends. Parents are probably in that list, too. Not sure how I feel about contacting them, though. His GF, yes. His folks, not so sure.


Seeing his friends list on Facebook should allow you to message them , part of the reason to expose him to his family and/or close friends is to warn his friends that he could easily have an affair with their wives and to counter any gas lighting he will do. His parents will probably not do anything however knowing he is an adulterer will cause them to question everything he says to them.

Exposing now is telling the truth , having to do so later because he is bad mouthing you will be seen as you making up stories.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lovelygirl

betamale said:


> *If your wife and OM keep seing each other*, it will show that you were 100% right about filing for divorce.


Even if they don't keep seeing each other anymore, BFF was/is still 100% right about the D.
What they did in the past is enough to file and walk out of this marriage.


----------



## Ansley

lovelygirl said:


> Even if they don't keep seeing each other anymore, BFF was/is still 100% right about the D.
> What they did in the past is enough to file and walk out of this marriage.


I agree bff has been right all along.


----------



## Ansley

It would be interesting if he was checking her phone records now. I wonder how many times a day she is talking to POSOM now?


----------



## Chaparral

Eli-Zor said:


> Seeing his friends list on Facebook should allow you to message them , part of the reason to expose him to his family and/or close friends is to warn his friends that he could easily have an affair with their wives and to counter any gas lighting he will do. His parents will probably not do anything however knowing he is an adulterer will cause them to question everything he says to them.
> 
> Exposing now is telling the truth , having to do so later because he is bad mouthing you will be seen as you making up stories.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have no doubt this isn't the first friend he has betrayed. It wiuld have been great if bff had been warned about him. I expect he has more than one fish on the line now.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

MattMatt said:


> _*They had a sexual manifesto*_??


Yeah, that's what I would call it. The ex enjoyed having the OM make up stories about what he planned on doing to her - in graphic details. 

I have to admit, the bastard was pretty good. He definitely missed his calling writing sleazy porn novels.


----------



## bff

OM GF just messaged me back saying that she knows about the relationship, OM told her. She gave me her cell and said she's open to talking about it. I'm going to give her a call to see just how much he's told her. Also, he may have disclosed his plans for the future.... Moving out on GF so he can live with my STBxW? I'm sadly curious.

Also, I tried one last time to look at the phone records. Password changed, so they at least figured that much out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ansley

I am very curious as to how he is spinning this
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bff

I assume he has only disclosed the EA and probably minimized it at that. I have thought about this, and the story they will probably tell is, "W and OM had a close friendship, H was so jealous that he his left without trying to work things out. Since H left, W and OM have fallen in love..."

Ugh. I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jh52

bff said:


> OM GF just messaged me back saying that she knows about the relationship, OM told her. She gave me her cell and said she's open to talking about it. I'm going to give her a call to see just how much he's told her. Also, he may have disclosed his plans for the future.... Moving out on GF so he can live with my STBxW? I'm sadly curious.
> 
> Also, I tried one last time to look at the phone records. Password changed, so they at least figured that much out.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


BFF -- prepare for him moving out on GF so he can live with my STBxW.

Don't know if that will happen -- but get ready for another jolt.


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## Almostrecovered

on the flip side, she may actually know more than you


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## Wazza

Tidy up the finances. If that all happens, one thing it proves is how sincere your ex was about reconciliation...but he may also be more willing than her to go for everything they can get from you.

Man this sucks.


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## turnera

bff said:


> If it means anything, I've met OM's parents and so has my wife. The three of us were in the area where his parents live (several hours from our home) for an event and he invited us to go out to dinner with he and his folks. They seem like really nice people. I'd hate to hurt them unnecessarily, but I know that it would be an additional dose of horrible shame on him if they knew. Also, if W and OM want to continue a relationship (presumably after his GF dumps him after I talk to her...) the parents might not be so approving if they knew the truth. Maybe I should let the GF tell them if she wants to? I imagine she's much closer to them than me - who just met them once or twice.


If you still want your wife, then you have to man up and call OM's parents yourself. Fight for your marriage, ok?

If you don't want her back, then just move on.


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## Almostrecovered

if OM does move in it does demonstrate that her wishes for R were most certainly insincere and empty


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## Count of Monte Cristo

turnera said:


> If you still want your wife, then you have to man up and call OM's parents yourself. Fight for your marriage, ok?
> 
> If you don't want her back, then just move on.


He already said infidelity was a deal breaker.


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## turnera

Then why are we even discussing this? Just divorce her.


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## Jellybeans

bff said:


> OM GF just messaged me back saying that she knows about the relationship, OM told her. She gave me her cell and said she's open to talking about it. I'm going to give her a call to see just how much he's told her.





bff said:


> I assume he has only disclosed the EA and probably minimized it at that. I have thought about this, and the story they will probably tell is, "W and OM had a close friendship, H was so jealous that he his left without trying to work things out. Since H left, W and OM have fallen in love..."


This is why you need to talk to the GF and compare notes so you both know the truth. 

Have either your wife or the OM reached out to you again?


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## aug

turnera said:


> Then why are we even discussing this? Just divorce her.


He already signed the divorce paper.


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## MarriedTex

jh52 said:


> BFF -- prepare for him moving out on GF so he can live with my STBxW.
> 
> Don't know if that will happen -- but get ready for another jolt.


I would say the odds of this happening are quite high. If WW was calling him six times a day, sharing his drinks etc., it was almost as if BFF had become the other man in their three-way relationship. Now, that he's out of the picture, OM will almost certainly take his place.

But it will be a relationship built on sand. Give them three years to run through divorce proceeds, then they'll hit the rocks.

BFF, you will be in fulfilling long-term relationship long before then. The best revenge is living well. 

But the second best revenge would be to look up your ex in two to three years if you are unattached at that time. By that point, she'll be primed and ready to cheat on her new victim. You could bed her just for ol' times sake. (I would not advise this, of course. It's not living well. But it is delicious to think about the irony.)


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## Shaggy

turnera said:


> Then why are we even discussing this? Just divorce her.


Because this is also very new to bff and he's still trying to find out what the real truth is, what the game is going forward for him, and what the best plan is.

Filing for D is a good step forward, but it doesn't turn off his emotional need to deal with these two.

BFF - is your cell on the same plan as hers? You might want to get your phone moved onto it's own plan so she can't see who you are talking to.


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## bff

A few things to respond to.

1 - Yes, I already signed the divorce papers. I'm not fighting for someone who spent most of her day, every day, for six years, carefully conducting a relationship with another man so that I was completely kept out of it. It wasn't a second relationship, it clearly was her PRIMARY relationship. I was, indeed, the OM. Just not legally.

2 - Neither has reached out again. W and I have exchanged a couple logistical texts - "Can I come by the old house to pick up x", etc. At first I did have that, "you mean that's it? That's all she's going to fight for me?" thoughts. But you know what? If I'm really honest with myself, I've seen the quality of the relationship with my wife degrade over the last 6 years. Because of the affair or a catalyst for the affair? It almost doesn't matter at this point. Buried inside me somewhere is a small (and growing) sense of RELIEF that I'm getting out of this situation and get a fresh start. That being said, I am (and don't let me off the hook!) going to work with my therapist and on my own to examine how I contributed to letting the relationship crumble over time and how I let this go on for so long. Both of these are things I need to address for my own good and for the good of any future SO of mine.

3 - we are on completely separate cell phone plans, so that's not a concern. She has changed the password on her account, so that's one less thing for me to obsess over. ;-)


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## zsu234

You've expressed fear of the OM, why are you afraid of this guy? It should be the other way around.


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## jh52

"I am (and don't let me off the hook!) going to work with my therapist and on my own to examine how I contributed to letting the relationship crumble over time and how I let this go on for so long. Both of these are things I need to address for my own good and for the good of any future SO of mine"


The only thing I would say is that you saw the relationship between stbxw and so call friend develop over this time -- and really never said anything about it -- to either of them.

My guess is that other people saw the same thing -- but didn't say anything because for some reason they thought you were okay with it.

IN IC -- I would try to figure out why you let the situation between the 2 of them develop and not say/confront either one.

Just my 2 cents...


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## OldWolf57

bff, you are getting some good advice, but what does your lawyer say? At this stage he should be advising separating accs., cc's debts, an anything thing else the law will allow.

What you need to do now is FIND the Anger you need to be a REAL Bastard.
The EVIL level of backstabbing by these two go beyond things we normally see here.
Does he and GF have kids ?? if not, why?? Can he have kids ?? We know ww have trouble, So maybe they needed you for that. A poster mentioned him talking her into going after you for all she can get. I can see this. Find your inner bastard NOW. Her trying so hard to get a kid, could mean they wanted you on the hook if this all came out. Say a prayer this did'nt happen.
Another mentioned how while out together, they seemed more like the couple, an you the friend. This man has a plan for WW and you as his payday dude. ww might not see it, but he does, trust me on this.
So now is the time to drain accs and close CCs. The only $$ she should have acess to is her paycheck. YEAH you will have to split it later. BUT let a judge make you. This guy has been living off your dime long enough. And has plans to get even more. Investments and all other finances should be out of her reach before he advise her to drain things. We have seen WW do this dude, so get on this NOW. this is no time to be sleeping. between her pay and combined marital assets, they know she will be fine. AND, remember you are the only one who don't know the game plan. So your plan should be SHOCK and AWE with SCORCHED EARTH thrown in. Some say don't stoop to there level. ME, I'll crawl under a maggots belly to get even. So they can save the nobel sh*t. I play to win. And I want you too. 
ALSO, until you know more of GF, don't look at her as a victim. She has been with this scum for yrs. Was she really in the dark, OR is she counting on him to bring home the bacon. I've seen it dude. All these yrs. and she NEVER was interested in this relationship where he even intro'ed to his parents. Doesn't seem normal to me. 
So with you never knowing what the real is, just think of yourself as these 3 ppl payday.


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## bff

zsu234 said:


> You've expressed fear of the OM, why are you afraid of this guy? It should be the other way around.


Because he's a big, physical guy with a history of fights in his past. I think it is not only practical but wise advice: Don't ever get into a fight with someone who has nothing to lose.

Other than the physical aspect, I'm not afraid of him. I contacted his GF yesterday and I'm going to call her today to make sure she knows the WHOLE truth. I've also called just about all of our common friends to make sure they know the truth about my W and OM. My guess is that he's had a string of people calling him and brow-beating him.

That being said, another good friend of mine told me to have pretty low expectations if I think that our circle of friends will completely ostracize the two of them. He said, and I believe it, that people are in general quite tolerant and resilient when it comes to things like this, and the two of them will be back in decent standing before too long.

Hearing about (or seeing) W and OM going out as a couple with some of our common friends will be one of those future kick-in-the-nads that I'll have to prepare myself for.


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## keko

bff said:


> Hearing about (or seeing) W and OM going out as a couple with some of our common friends will be one of those future kick-in-the-nads that I'll have to prepare myself for.


If this does happen, understand that they were never your friends. Drop them like a hot potato!


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## bff

OldWolf57 said:


> bff, you are getting some good advice, but what does your lawyer say? At this stage he should be advising separating accs., cc's debts, an anything thing else the law will allow.
> 
> What you need to do now is FIND the Anger you need to be a REAL Bastard.
> The EVIL level of backstabbing by these two go beyond things we normally see here.
> Does he and GF have kids ?? if not, why?? Can he have kids ?? We know ww have trouble, So maybe they needed you for that. A poster mentioned him talking her into going after you for all she can get. I can see this. Find your inner bastard NOW. Her trying so hard to get a kid, could mean they wanted you on the hook if this all came out. Say a prayer this did'nt happen.
> Another mentioned how while out together, they seemed more like the couple, an you the friend. This man has a plan for WW and you as his payday dude. ww might not see it, but he does, trust me on this.
> So now is the time to drain accs and close CCs. The only $$ she should have acess to is her paycheck. YEAH you will have to split it later. BUT let a judge make you. This guy has been living off your dime long enough. And has plans to get even more. Investments and all other finances should be out of her reach before he advise her to drain things. We have seen WW do this dude, so get on this NOW. this is no time to be sleeping. between her pay and combined marital assets, they know she will be fine. AND, remember you are the only one who don't know the game plan. So your plan should be SHOCK and AWE with SCORCHED EARTH thrown in. Some say don't stoop to there level. ME, I'll crawl under a maggots belly to get even. So they can save the nobel sh*t. I play to win. And I want you too.
> ALSO, until you know more of GF, don't look at her as a victim. She has been with this scum for yrs. Was she really in the dark, OR is she counting on him to bring home the bacon. I've seen it dude. All these yrs. and she NEVER was interested in this relationship where he even intro'ed to his parents. Doesn't seem normal to me.
> So with you never knowing what the real is, just think of yourself as these 3 ppl payday.


Yep, I hear you loud and clear. I actually contacted my attorney earlier this morning about some of these exact questions. I want to make sure that I'm protected and that we set the stage correctly for how the next few months are going to go... And, I've got my own expenses, too. I have to set up a household from scratch. Should I be using common funds or my own paycheck for that? I'm sure she'll advise me.

Good point about the OM GF. She had so see at least some of the same signs I did. I guarantee you she doesn't see him as a big breadwinner. The d*&khead barely has two stick to rub together. Well, we'll see in a few months. He may have plenty of [my former] money. Since my state is a no fault state, I really don't think this was a conspiracy to set me up to initiate divorce so they could take the money and ride off into the sunset. If so, SHE could have initiated that at any time. They could have been way more brash and put the relationship in my face to get me to initiate, if appearances were important. It must be a genetic flaw of mine that I trust people too much.


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## jh52

bff said:


> Because he's a big, physical guy with a history of fights in his past. I think it is not only practical but wise advice: Don't ever get into a fight with someone who has nothing to lose.
> 
> Other than the physical aspect, I'm not afraid of him. I contacted his GF yesterday and I'm going to call her today to make sure she knows the WHOLE truth. I've also called just about all of our common friends to make sure they know the truth about my W and OM. My guess is that he's had a string of people calling him and brow-beating him.
> 
> That being said, another good friend of mine told me to have pretty low expectations if I think that our circle of friends will completely ostracize the two of them. He said, and I believe it, that people are in general quite tolerant and resilient when it comes to things like this, and the two of them will be back in decent standing before too long.
> 
> Hearing about (or seeing) W and OM going out as a couple with some of our common friends will be one of those future kick-in-the-nads that I'll have to prepare myself for.


Your stbxw may stay with OM --- because OM will sponge her money dry since he is broke. 

But this is not your problem or concern.

Do prepare yourself like I said before about her and OM dating. I think that is a real posibilty since the affair went on for so long. But like the old saying goes -- you don't know someone until you live with them. She may find out soon enough.

But focus on yourself now -- when the time is right you will find someone who will love you back the way you deserve.


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## OldWolf57

The way to combat that is to make it clear, any friend of theirs is no friend of yours. Loyality to real friends don't include entertaining cheating scum. So if they do, they never was a real friend.
Make it VERY PLAIN to ALL. You don't need a counselor to walk you thru every step, you already see many that need your best efforts.
And cutting out enabling false friends you wont have to pay by the hour to learn. Should go a long way toward your growth.


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## Jellybeans

bff said:


> It must be a genetic flaw of mine that I trust people too much.


Don't beat yourself about trusting. You are supposed to trust your spouse. That's how it goes. They betrayed your trust. Don't kick yourself though for believing in her and wanting your marriage and to be happy with her. That is what a marriage is.


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## OldWolf57

Not saying they did it to get the D started. Saying HE knows you guys have $$. He knows she is his. He put it in your face every time you guys was out. He is using her, and if cause a D, she will walk with $$. Get me now ?? This scum is scum i know Bff. No matter what, he walks a winner.

Now see, this is where you HAVE to be the BASTARD. AND let me say, YOU will not get a criminal record for draining all accounts. Since most of the money was earned by you. MOVE EVERYTHING.
Bonds funds, close an reopen in your name only. CD's same thing. I'm talking everything. BUT,,, this has to be done quickly. So lay out a list with every acc., starting with the largest amounts you want protected.
I don't think he is some finance guy, so you should be able to endrun them on this.
As for spending, did'nt you earn this money. Then spend it how you want. Call your money manager before she do. But,, you may have to find out if the acc's are locked since you filed. We always advise taking care of these things before filing for that reason.
Either way, talk to your mouthpiece about setting up the house, or, if you want to be an ass, kicking her out of the new one so you can move into it. I actually like that. It has been sullied less. And, he won't get the pleasure of it. 
Actually, what is considered the primary residence now?? If it's the old place. Put the other on the market now.


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## bff

Wolf,

My attorney is giving me exactly the opposite advice, and since I'm paying her $425 an hour, I'm going to follow her directions. I mean no disrespect to you, of course!

She said that the summons my W will get today has temporary restraining orders on all property and accounts. That means she can't touch anything (and neither can I) until the property is divided. All of our accounts are joint accounts. This means neither she nor I can close them without the other's consent anyway. To make matters slightly more complicated, my W is in finance and manages all of our money. So, there will be some "discovery" to do there to make sure that we uncover all of the money we BOTH have invested or stored away...

Neither of us can sell anything, open lines of credit against assets, etc. My attorney suspects that when W gets the petition/summons today, she'll retain an attorney and they will immediately file a motion for spousal support. That is actually the best thing that could happen, since then W will have to cover all of the expenses on the residence she's living in (the new house) from her own pocket (plus my support). Since that house is bigger, more expensive, higher taxes, higher utilities, more landscaping upkeep, etc. I'd like to see that all coming 100% out of what she's eventually going to get instead of it coming out of the funds to be divided.


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## MattMatt

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Yeah, that's what I would call it. The ex enjoyed having the OM make up stories about what he planned on doing to her - in graphic details.
> 
> I have to admit, the bastard was pretty good. He definitely missed his calling writing sleazy porn novels.


Maybe he does write sleazy porn novels?


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## MattMatt

turnera said:


> Then why are we even discussing this? Just divorce her.


For closure, maybe?


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## happyman64

BFF

Follow your attorneys advice.

With respect to mutual friends, my fiancé was banging my best friend and a handful of my closest friends knew. 

I actually know. She dated a few of these guys while I was deployed.

When I found out the whole story I walked away from them all.

A few tried to initiate contact and apologize.

I told them apologies not accepted and Bro's before Ho's.

Then I beat the crap out of each one of them. They got the message loud and clear.

I made new friends and never looked back. 

You will make new friends too! You will also find out who your real, true friends are after the fallout.

And people always ask if Karma is real.

Everyone of my so called friends from that period in my life have had crappy lives. I follow their progress through my HS website.

The BFF OM just had brain surgery and lost both of his parents really early on. I wished I ad known so I could have paid my respects to his Mom and Dad. They were good people.

So sad but true.

Live your life, work on you for your next relationship. Settle your D as soon as you can.

Then go find a good woman for yourself.

I guaranty you one thing. Your STBXW is really messed up and has really messed up her life.

The show is about to start. And that is if you even care enough to watch.

HM64


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## Shaggy

Actually the OM making any threats or doing anything can play out well for you. Be very ready to seek an RO especially if it can apply to any property you own, that way you might be able to legally bar him from both homes you own.

Ask your lawyer if you can do this.


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## the guy

Why would want to hang out with poeple who hang out with STBXW and OM?

As far as why she isn't fighting harder.."thats all" moment, I suspect she now has a small amount of respect for you today and knows she is screwed. Its good for you cuz so many are stuck in limbo with there waywards fighting so hard to keep there marraige with lip service and no action ....you are lucky in that aspect.

The LTA was not about taking your dough, it was about the exciting taboo secret that drove this A...thats what I think, The good thing about that it onces the light of day shines on these vampires the relationship falls apart. Stats show it won't last and it makes sence when you think about it. Once the day to day kind of thing start, the attraction will no longer be there. It will be a matter of time before your STBXW gets tired of paying for eveything.
But prepare your self any way, b/c they might try to make it a thing and try to be a couple in the light of day but it just won't last.


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## the guy

Is OM GF going to work it out or bail?


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## MarriedTex

Shaggy said:


> Actually the OM making any threats or doing anything can play out well for you. Be very ready to seek an RO especially if it can apply to any property you own, that way you might be able to legally bar him from both homes you own.
> 
> Ask your lawyer if you can do this.


This is very good idea! Alternatively, could he seek Restraining order keeping him out of house based on "alienation of affection" terms? 

BFF, you made it relatively easy for them to carry on their relationship in front of you for quite some time. I recognize you will likely take the high road and not pursue this. You're a better man than I, for sure. But, I sure as heck would be tempted to go nuclear with the lawyers and make STBX feel some consequences.

Others will weigh in on the value / hazards of vindictive behavior. I recognize it's not healthy in the long run. I'm rooting for you to get some measure of satisfaction. This may be good topic of therapist conversation.Talking out why (or why not) you feel need for vindication could be revealing in recovery process.


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## bff

Lot's of interesting advice, here. I accept that some of my decisions will be viewed by some (many?) here as a sign of weakness. That's ok. I'll accept that. But, I don't think I will get any personal satisfaction or additional "closure" by being vindictive or aggressive. I honestly don't care if the two of them end up together. In fact, I've said it before and I'll say it again - if they end up together, having each other will be the best punishment I could possibly imagine for them. I mean, really. Do cheaters ever expect the other person in their deceitful relationship to remain true to JUST THEM?

I'm not afraid of him and I don't care if they're f*&king away in the new house right now. They already have - it can't hurt me anymore than it already has. Sure, the mental image of that stings a little, but I'm GOING TO DO MUCH BETTER going forward than either of these slugs. Living well is the best revenge, and that is revenge that I will exact with a vengeance!! I absolutely, positively under NO CIRCUMSTANCES am going to let this **** define me or put me into a hermit-like funk. I'm waking up each day with a little more optimism, and I'm excited for the future. I've got so much pent up desire for a little appreciation and a little affection. My biggest challenge will be to avoid getting too attached the to first woman that actually seems to care even a little bit about me.  That's a much better problem to have, though, than what I've been dealing with in the past.

Sorry - that was a big rant and totally stream of consciousness.


----------



## jh52

bff said:


> Lot's of interesting advice, here. I accept that some of my decisions will be viewed by some (many?) here as a sign of weakness. That's ok. I'll accept that. But, I don't think I will get any personal satisfaction or additional "closure" by being vindictive or aggressive. I honestly don't care if the two of them end up together. In fact, I've said it before and I'll say it again - if they end up together, having each other will be the best punishment I could possibly imagine for them. I mean, really. Do cheaters ever expect the other person in their deceitful relationship to remain true to JUST THEM?
> 
> I'm not afraid of him and I don't care if they're f*&king away in the new house right now. They already have - it can't hurt me anymore than it already has. Sure, the mental image of that stings a little, but I'm GOING TO DO MUCH BETTER going forward than either of these slugs. Living well is the best revenge, and that is revenge that I will exact with a vengeance!! I absolutely, positively under NO CIRCUMSTANCES am going to let this **** define me or put me into a hermit-like funk. I'm waking up each day with a little more optimism, and I'm excited for the future. I've got so much pent up desire for a little appreciation and a little affection. My biggest challenge will be to avoid getting too attached the to first woman that actually seems to care even a little bit about me.  That's a much better problem to have, though, than what I've been dealing with in the past.
> 
> Sorry - that was a big rant and totally stream of consciousness.


Vent and rant away !!!


----------



## sandc

bff said:


> Lot's of interesting advice, here. I accept that some of my decisions will be viewed by some (many?) here as a sign of weakness. That's ok. I'll accept that. But, I don't think I will get any personal satisfaction or additional "closure" by being vindictive or aggressive. I honestly don't care if the two of them end up together. In fact, I've said it before and I'll say it again - if they end up together, having each other will be the best punishment I could possibly imagine for them. I mean, really. Do cheaters ever expect the other person in their deceitful relationship to remain true to JUST THEM?
> 
> I'm not afraid of him and I don't care if they're f*&king away in the new house right now. They already have - it can't hurt me anymore than it already has. Sure, the mental image of that stings a little, but I'm GOING TO DO MUCH BETTER going forward than either of these slugs. Living well is the best revenge, and that is revenge that I will exact with a vengeance!! I absolutely, positively under NO CIRCUMSTANCES am going to let this **** define me or put me into a hermit-like funk. I'm waking up each day with a little more optimism, and I'm excited for the future. I've got so much pent up desire for a little appreciation and a little affection. My biggest challenge will be to avoid getting too attached the to first woman that actually seems to care even a little bit about me.  That's a much better problem to have, though, than what I've been dealing with in the past.
> 
> Sorry - that was a big rant and totally stream of consciousness.


Heck no, man, that was great! Try to date several women fairly quickly. Make sure your STBXW sees you. Wave and smile cordially. Then drive off laughing in your new car or bike. You've actually been given a great opportunity, make the most of it.


----------



## lordmayhem

the guy said:


> Why would want to hang out with poeple who hang out with STBXW and OM?
> 
> As far as why she isn't fighting harder.."thats all" moment, I suspect she now has a small amount of respect for you today and knows she is screwed. Its good for you cuz so many are stuck in limbo with there waywards fighting so hard to keep there marraige with lip service and no action ....you are lucky in that aspect.
> 
> The LTA was not about taking your dough, it was about the exciting taboo secret that drove this A...thats what I think, The good thing about that it onces the light of day shines on these vampires the relationship falls apart. Stats show it won't last and it makes sence when you think about it. Once the day to day kind of thing start, the attraction will no longer be there. It will be a matter of time before your STBXW gets tired of paying for eveything.
> But prepare your self any way, b/c they might try to make it a thing and try to be a couple in the light of day but it just won't last.


:iagree:

Her LTA was all about cake eating, pure and simple.


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## happyman64

That's it BFF.

Use your anger to move forward.

And in no way was I condoning violence. Sorry if I lead you to that conclusion.

That was a long time ago in my life when people were not sue happy like they are okay.

The best revenge is too live your life and be happy......


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## OldWolf57

None taken man, I was afraid it was too late for that stuff. MUCH RESPECT for the way you handling this.
As for discovery of finances, have it done by the best. I think there was a OP who WW set up secret acc's, and was putting money in he knew nothing about. Surprised the hell out of her when she was notified not to move it.

You seem to be OK, but it will hurt for a while, so keep the socials going.


----------



## aug

bff said:


> Wolf,
> 
> My attorney is giving me exactly the opposite advice, and since I'm paying her $425 an hour, I'm going to follow her directions. I mean no disrespect to you, of course!
> 
> She said that the summons my W will get today has temporary restraining orders on all property and accounts. That means she can't touch anything (and neither can I) until the property is divided. All of our accounts are joint accounts. This means neither she nor I can close them without the other's consent anyway. To make matters slightly more complicated,* my W is in finance and manages all of our money. * So, there will be some "discovery" to do there to make sure that we uncover all of the money we BOTH have invested or stored away...
> 
> Neither of us can sell anything, open lines of credit against assets, etc. My attorney suspects that when W gets the petition/summons today, she'll retain an attorney and they will immediately file a motion for spousal support. That is actually the best thing that could happen, since then W will have to cover all of the expenses on the residence she's living in (the new house) from her own pocket (plus my support). Since that house is bigger, more expensive, higher taxes, higher utilities, more landscaping upkeep, etc. I'd like to see that all coming 100% out of what she's eventually going to get instead of it coming out of the funds to be divided.



Wife manages money. Wow! I am seriously thinking that she had siphoned money away to support her lover.

Spend a few thousand dollars to do a forensic auditing of her money handling the last 6 years. I would think any money she fraudulently gave to her lover should be clawed back via your settlement.


----------



## aug

Shaggy said:


> Actually the OM making any threats or doing anything can play out well for you. Be very ready to seek an RO especially if it can apply to any property you own, that way you might be able to legally bar him from both homes you own.
> 
> Ask your lawyer if you can do this.



Good idea to carry a VAR on you whenever you interact with him.


----------



## OldWolf57

thats my way of thinking too. so bff don' really know how much she may have hidden or spent.


----------



## bff

Even though she "managed" the money, I've always had and watched the statements. I would have seen any large withdrawals. And, although I am ashamed and embarrassed to admit it, I was the one that was propping up the OM financially. I paid for a lot of things for him in exchange for him doing work (he is a talented craftsman in some trades I have a need for), but I don't think we've ever come close to "squaring up". I'm sure he'd say he's done way more for me (us, really) than what I've paid, but I see it the other way. I also didn't realize he was getting p***y as compensation, too.


----------



## lordmayhem

I have to say: You really have an unusual best friend relationship. If I didn't read the title of your thread, I would think this OM was just an acquaintance.


----------



## the guy

How is the comms with OM GF?

Has she added any more details or have you enlightened her more?


----------



## happyman64

bff said:


> Even though she "managed" the money, I've always had and watched the statements. I would have seen any large withdrawals. And, although I am ashamed and embarrassed to admit it, I was the one that was propping up the OM financially. I paid for a lot of things for him in exchange for him doing work (he is a talented craftsman in some trades I have a need for), but I don't think we've ever come close to "squaring up". I'm sure he'd say he's done way more for me (us, really) than what I've paid, but I see it the other way. I also didn't realize he was getting p***y as compensation, too.



Then he owes you big time for services rendered. If only you could put a $$$ amount in for her services rendered.


Maybe you can come up with a figure and have it deducted from any settlement she is awarded.

Since she was acting like a ho you might as well get a management fee.

If only the courts would decide in our favor on that one us BS's would not feel totally screwed over......

It is just a thought.


----------



## Shaggy

You should send him an invoice for double billing you!


----------



## bff

That made me laugh so hard a little coke zero shot out my nose!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bff

Calling OM GF this afternoon. I'll report back this evening on what I learn there. 

Yes, plan to stick around TAM. Is the protocol now that I've filed to open a new thread over there and let this one die?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

Please stick to one thread so that anyone stepping in won't have to look for other ones to see what the story is. If you need to have it moved, you can contact the mods for that.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Sham did it right in my eyes
One thread for uncovering infidelity and one thread for the D process


----------



## Almostrecovered

Bandit did the same thing but had his 2nd thread locked


----------



## MarriedTex

Almostrecovered said:


> Bandit did the same thing but had his 2nd thread locked


If you do start a second thread, post the link here so that future readers can follow the story to its conclusion, if interested.


----------



## Shaggy

You could also open it in the private section so she doesn't stumble on it and read it. You should have enough posts to open one there now.


----------



## MattMatt

bff said:


> Calling OM GF this afternoon. I'll report back this evening on what I learn there.
> 
> Yes, plan to stick around TAM. Is the protocol now that I've filed to open a new thread over there and let this one die?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, you can stay here as you are still Coping With Infidelity.


----------



## zsu234

"Because he's a big, physical guy with a history of fights in his past."

Then sniping at a distance, or an L shaped ambush would be the preferred method of taking the OM out.


----------



## sandc

zsu234 said:


> "Because he's a big, physical guy with a history of fights in his past."
> 
> Then sniping at a distance, or an L shaped ambush would be the preferred method of taking the OM out.


Hoo-rah.


----------



## happyman64

bff said:


> That made me laugh so hard a little coke zero shot out my nose!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nothing like a little coke zero to clean the sinuses out. And it legal to.


----------



## bff

I'm in California. Nearly everything is legal here. Except smoking. I'm not going to bother checking on the legality of the L shaped ambush. Sometimes, it's better just to ask for forgiveness than permission.

Just left the OM GF a vm. Hope she calls back and this isn't just me chasing her. I want her to know the full truth. 

Got to another common friend of OM today, another "benefactor" of his who props him up financially. I think that might be coming to an end after he learned a little more about the character of his "friend".

Talked to our Realtor today. He said my STBxW had already called him, between choking back tears told him "it's all my fault" and said the old house wasn't going to be on the market any time soon. Glad to know that with common acquaintances, at least for now, she isn't putting it all on me.


----------



## bff

G*D D%$MIT M*&HERF&*KING SH&T!

Just spoke to the OM GF. SHE KNEW ABOUT IT SIX YEARS AGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But she thought it "was just a little fling that ended after 5 months". And she apologized that she never reached out to me, but she thought "it was up you your W if she wanted to tell you. I didn't want to break anyone up."

Boy, you all were soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo right about reaching out to her. She had no idea that it had continued and she didn't realize the explosion on the other end, my end, this past weekend. She told me, "I'm still trying to process this all", but that she's ending it with OM immediately.

F*&k.


----------



## bff

BTW - I found the anger I've been looking for. Tempted to go recruit the rest of an L formation right now.


----------



## MattMatt

bff said:


> G*D D%$MIT M*&HERF&*KING SH&T!
> 
> Just spoke to the OM GF. SHE KNEW ABOUT IT SIX YEARS AGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> But she thought it "was just a little fling that ended after 5 months". And she apologized that she never reached out to me, but she thought "it was up you your W if she wanted to tell you. I didn't want to break anyone up."
> 
> Boy, you all were soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo right about reaching out to her. She had no idea that it had continued and she didn't realize the explosion on the other end, my end, this past weekend. She told me, "I'm still trying to process this all", but that she's ending it with OM immediately.
> 
> F*&k.


 Oh, well it's time for me to say: RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! again.

So he gaslighted his gf for six years, too? :wtf: 

Thank God you told her, bff!

Remind her about the advisability of std tests, because it is unlikely your wife was his only extracurricular carnal action. 

I think I see it all, now. OM is a super skilled player who convinced his gf it was only a little fling and who convinced your wife that it was a 'good' thing for your marriage as it helped her be more relaxed and loving and oooh, look! Is that a cute little pink cloud we spy, floating over the chocolate leafed trees of lalapinknfluffy land?


----------



## Almostrecovered

People who wish to have solid evidence before ending a marriage or get gaslighted aren't dunceheads


----------



## bff

Thanks, Satch and MM. I've calmed down (a little) but that 0.0001% of me that was questioning whether I made the right decision to D is now gone. Not down to 0.00000001%. GONE!

The really sad thing is that I could just tell from talking to OM GF that she's a freaking doormat and probably won't leave. At least not right away. She was the me of a few weeks ago. I tried to do you all proud and I gave her a real pep talk. You deserve better. We can't change the past, but we have complete control of how we react to it, so focus on that. I'm here if you need to talk. Etc. I think it all fell on deaf ears. I doubt I'll ever hear from her again. It honestly just sounded like she was telling me that she'd leave because she was too embarrassed to tell me that she's not strong enough to sack up and leave the lying cheating little prick.


----------



## MattMatt

Almostrecovered said:


> People who wish to have solid evidence before ending a marriage or get gaslighted aren't dunceheads


:iagree:

I think bff knew that if he had a small amount of evidence his wife would fold and confess. She did.

Other waywards are far more devious, so, often, more evidence is needed.


----------



## MattMatt

bff said:


> Thanks, Satch and MM. I've calmed down (a little) but that 0.0001% of me that was questioning whether I made the right decision to D is now gone. Not down to 0.00000001%. GONE!
> 
> The really sad thing is that I could just tell from talking to OM GF that she's a freaking doormat and probably won't leave. At least not right away. She was the me of a few weeks ago. I tried to do you all proud and I gave her a real pep talk. You deserve better. We can't change the past, but we have complete control of how we react to it, so focus on that. I'm here if you need to talk. Etc. I think it all fell on deaf ears. I doubt I'll ever hear from her again. It honestly just sounded like she was telling me that she'd leave because she was too embarrassed to tell me that she's not strong enough to sack up and leave the lying cheating little prick.


Give her the link to your thread, mate. Then the decision is hers.


----------



## Shaggy

Now you also know it has been going on at least 6 years now, an likely before that too.


----------



## bff

Almostrecovered said:


> People who wish to have solid evidence before ending a marriage or get gaslighted aren't dunceheads


Yeah, I have to agree, here. My confrontation could VERY EASILY have gone the other direction. I don't know if it was a subconscious desire on my W's part to finally have it exposed, the overwhelming guilt or my masterful line of questioning and bluffing, but if she didn't admit to the physical part of the relationship, I would be a complete effing mess right now in a horrible limbo and they'd be deep deep underground. Looking back, I have to agree that I should have kept my cool, placed a VAR in the bedroom or in the kitchen and gotten out of the house for one more miserable night of evidence gathering. I took a calculated risk and it worked out. But, that was a big risk. I don't think I could have divorced if I had no evidence or admission of a physical affair, and I don't know how I could have continued my PI work for much longer, either.


----------



## Ansley

turnera said:


> Then why are we even discussing this? Just divorce her.



he already is--he has been through hell with this .... he needs support....monday morning keyboard quarterbacks arent helpful


----------



## Shaggy

bff said:


> G*D D%$MIT M*&HERF&*KING SH&T!
> 
> Just spoke to the OM GF. SHE KNEW ABOUT IT SIX YEARS AGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> But she thought it "was just a little fling that ended after 5 months". And she apologized that she never reached out to me, but she thought "it was up you your W if she wanted to tell you. I didn't want to break anyone up."
> 
> Boy, you all were soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo right about reaching out to her. She had no idea that it had continued and she didn't realize the explosion on the other end, my end, this past weekend. She told me, "I'm still trying to process this all", but that she's ending it with OM immediately.
> 
> F*&k.


For all those enablers who say " why let the betrayed spouse know". This is why! You could have saved the last six years of your life if the woman had done the right thing and just told you. What a total bs way of passing the buck saying it was up to your wife to inform you that she was a cheating ******


----------



## bff

Just 24 hours ago I was on the fence about contacting her. Shaggy is absolutely right.


----------



## Ansley

MattMatt said:


> Give her the link to your thread, mate. Then the decision is hers.



She has been used for years. She wont want to admit that to anyone especially herself.


----------



## Ansley

Satchel Rage said:


> Cool Story Bro.
> 
> You handled it well. Most men that come on TAM and talk about their Cheating Wives are shrinking violets. Glad you pulled through. I'm also glad that you didn't listen to the dunce heads that kept saying "you need more evidence, You need more proof", like you're trying to be 007 or sherlock holmes trying to catch your ex-wife in the act. I think people just wanted to read a train wreck thriller.
> 
> Your questioning of your wife was Epic for TAM. It's a blue print for the Beta's on here. They really need it.


I agree. I wish when my exhusband was doing his thing(s) I would have been more proactive.


----------



## Mike11

bff said:


> Thanks, Satch and MM. I've calmed down (a little) but that 0.0001% of me that was questioning whether I made the right decision to D is now gone. Not down to 0.00000001%. GONE!
> 
> The really sad thing is that I could just tell from talking to OM GF that she's a freaking doormat and probably won't leave. At least not right away. She was the me of a few weeks ago. I tried to do you all proud and I gave her a real pep talk. You deserve better. We can't change the past, but we have complete control of how we react to it, so focus on that. I'm here if you need to talk. Etc. I think it all fell on deaf ears. I doubt I'll ever hear from her again. It honestly just sounded like she was telling me that she'd leave because she was too embarrassed to tell me that she's not strong enough to sack up and leave the lying cheating little prick.


Here you go, a lesson in human psychology, 
Unfortunately OM gf will have very little choice as OM will probably dump her if the plan for him was your STBXW all along
just be prepared, she(your STBXW) will flaunt at you with him as this is her way to exert revenge on you for not giving her a second change, Your STBXW, to my opinion unfortunately going to run to the OM quickly once the gravity of the Divorce is going to hit her, her moral compass is off so don't expect any dignity or respect towards you when this is going to hit her
having a 6 y relationship with the OM means she had non for you all along, she is not going to mourn you Bff more of the Gravy train she just missed leaving the station hence the life she had lost with you.

Her true crash and WTFHID moment will reach to her in the near future, once you will find another good woman and enter another relationship and start a real family with this woman, this will hit her hard I promise you, 
and she will realize that sleazebags do not make good husband material who can provide a good life like she had lost.

These realizations normally come too late to the WS, 
too late to do something about it and it is very saddening to witness as the devastation is huge, not that is of your concern any more.

This is something that I sometimes find hard to understand, how a spouse(man and woman) that has it all, good husband/wife, good life, everything and they end up trading down cheating with someone that even remotely cannot provide all the good that they had, only to end up broken and with nothing left to speak for eventually,

You on the other 

I have seen it again and again even with my own circle of friends and could not understand this.


----------



## happyman64

BFF

Just be glad you know everything now.
As much as it hurts you it is even worse when you are lied to for days months and years.

You now have closure. And you realize just how bad a liar your wife was.

Now you can focus on you.

I am sure you will find out that more friends knew about the affair.

But who cares.

Move on, heal and live for a new day with a new beautiful woman.

And be glad that you never had children with her. Take that as a good sign after all these years.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Just one question....is the OMGF hot? 

Ok, don't answer that.


----------



## sandc

bff said:


> BTW - I found the anger I've been looking for. Tempted to go recruit the rest of an L formation right now.


I'm in California too. Let me know if you need air support.


----------



## BrockLanders

bff said:


> G*D D%$MIT M*&HERF&*KING SH&T!
> 
> Just spoke to the OM GF. SHE KNEW ABOUT IT SIX YEARS AGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> But she thought it "was just a little fling that ended after 5 months". And she apologized that she never reached out to me, but she thought "it was up you your W if she wanted to tell you. I didn't want to break anyone up."
> 
> Boy, you all were soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo right about reaching out to her. She had no idea that it had continued and she didn't realize the explosion on the other end, my end, this past weekend. She told me, "I'm still trying to process this all", but that she's ending it with OM immediately.
> 
> F*&k.


I think that's a load of bs. If she knew about it in the beginning there's no way she hasn't seen it for SIX FcUKING years. She's either blind or stupid. Are you sure the three of them are not together? Unreal, SIX years. You need to fcuk themup something proper.


----------



## turnera

Ansley said:


> he already is--he has been through hell with this .... he needs support....monday morning keyboard quarterbacks arent helpful


 I meant no disrespect. But it helps to have a plan, to feel better sooner.


----------



## Machiavelli

zsu234 said:


> "Because he's a big, physical guy with a history of fights in his past."
> 
> Then sniping at a distance, or an L shaped ambush would be the preferred method of taking the OM out.


Just remember, the M60 goes on the short side and the claymores go on the long side. Oh yeah, "front toward enemy!"


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

MattMatt said:


> Give her the link to your thread, mate. Then the decision is hers.


Don't do this. She might tell the OM and then BFF's playbook would be in the enemy's hands.

She could've saved him six years of his life had she informed him when she found out about the affair.

The OM will dump her soon to be with his sugar mama.


----------



## aug

MattMatt said:


> Give her the link to your thread, mate. Then the decision is hers.



No. Dont.

The OMW will let it slip for sure. Then the OM will know, which means the STBXW will know too.

bff needs a place to vent and discuss openly (somewhat).


----------



## zsu234

"Just remember, the M60 goes on the short side and the claymores go on the long side. Oh yeah, "front toward enemy!" 


Infantry leads the way!


----------



## lordmayhem

aug said:


> No. Dont.
> 
> The OMW will let it slip for sure. Then the OM will know, which means the STBXW will know too.
> 
> bff needs a place to vent and discuss openly (somewhat).


:iagree:

Even though these forums are public, from reading the cheater forums, many people in affairs tend to stay away from betrayed spouse forums. Seeing the pain and anger that BSs go through kind of keeps them away. After all, they're in the BS fog...and it's all puppy dogs, lollipops and rainbows in affair land.


----------



## lordmayhem

bff said:


> G*D D%$MIT M*&HERF&*KING SH&T!
> 
> Just spoke to the OM GF. SHE KNEW ABOUT IT SIX YEARS AGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> But she thought it "was just a little fling that ended after 5 months". And she apologized that she never reached out to me, but she thought "it was up you your W if she wanted to tell you. I didn't want to break anyone up."
> 
> Boy, you all were soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo right about reaching out to her. She had no idea that it had continued and she didn't realize the explosion on the other end, my end, this past weekend. She told me, "I'm still trying to process this all", but that she's ending it with OM immediately.
> 
> F*&k.


I knew it was at least a 5 year LTA, because OM brought his GF to a party 5 years ago, your WW got upset and wanted to go. She was obviously jealous of the GF. And seeing as how the OMGF knew about about it 6 years ago, she knew about the affair 1 year before going to the party. She probably wanted to see your WW. That probably explains why you didn't see her after that.

If only she had exposed the affair to you 6 years ago. For the past 6 years, your marriage has been a lie. Which means technically, you've only been married to her for 4 years. But damn, it must really hurt to know your WW has been banging this OM behind your back for the past 6 years. Was there any indication at all that she was doing this for the past 6 years? Or had she gotten so good at hiding her double life from you that she didn't show any red flags of an affair? 

But here's a question for you: *IF* the OMGF had exposed the affair to you 6 years ago, would you have believed her?


----------



## Shaggy

I do think that you should tell you WWs mother about his long it went on for, just so she doesn't down play it as recent or one time.

This will help get them to back off trying to get you to condider R.


----------



## MattMatt

BrockLanders said:


> I think that's a load of bs. If she knew about it in the beginning there's no way she hasn't seen it for SIX FcUKING years. She's either blind or stupid. Are you sure the three of them are not together? Unreal, SIX years. You need to fcuk themup something proper.


Unless she was gaslighted by a pro? She was probably made to feel that she was imagining things.


> "What, babes? Me? Cheat on you? No way, honey! Oh, I know you think me and bff's wife had a fling, but that's not right! No way would I do that! She was just hurting over something cruel that bff said. Well, she can't have children, so I was just a shoulder to cry on, etc., etc., etc..."


They played bff and the played the gff. bff's wife probably had her script given to her by the OM. Which was why, when confronted alone, she folded so relatively easy, perhaps? Some actors, when they do have a script in front of them, really are no good at pretending to be someone or something they aren't.

Hopefully bff, ww or gf will be able to hold themselves together and not become depressed by how they were played by an expert.


----------



## MattMatt

aug said:


> No. Dont.
> 
> The OMW will let it slip for sure. Then the OM will know, which means the STBXW will know too.
> 
> bff needs a place to vent and discuss openly (somewhat).


That's a good point. So sadly, due to the evil of OM. his gf could well have to face her own problems alone? That sucks.


----------



## lordmayhem

MattMatt said:


> Hopefully bff, ww or gf will be able to hold themselves together and not become depressed by how they were played by an expert.


:iagree:

WW is an expert liar too. She was able to lie straight to bff's face and shag OM for 6 years without bff finding out.


----------



## MattMatt

lordmayhem said:


> :iagree:
> 
> WW is an expert liar too. She was able to lie straight to bff's face and shag OM for 6 years without bff finding out.


It's possible she became an expert in repeating the lines that OM fed her. When bff suddenly told her that he knew about the affair, when he, in effect, went very badly off script, she crumbled.


----------



## warlock07

10 years or more means splitting to half of the total property, right? Would it have been much lesser(to give her) if you had been married for lesser than 10 years?


----------



## MattMatt

warlock07 said:


> 10 years or more means splitting to half of the total property, right? Would it have been much lesser(to give her) if you had been married for lesser than 10 years?


I know next-to-nothing about US law, but if the affair can be proven to have started before the marriage, or at the start of the marriage, would it be worthwhile seeking an annulment on the grounds that the whole basis of the marriage was an utter sham on the part of the wife?:scratchhead:


----------



## lordmayhem

MattMatt said:


> I know next-to-nothing about US law, but if the affair can be proven to have started before the marriage, or at the start of the marriage, would it be worthwhile seeking an annulment on the grounds that the whole basis of the marriage was an utter sham on the part of the wife?:scratchhead:


In the US, Family Law falls under the jurisdiction of each state. The US is a federal republic and a union of 50 sovereign states, so laws vary from state to state. I know California is a very cheater friendly state and it's laws are different from my own state. So he's best off consulting a lawyer who's versed in California family law. 

I know, I know. Having 50 states with differing laws can be quite the pain in the ass.


----------



## MattMatt

lordmayhem said:


> In the US, Family Law falls under the jurisdiction of each state. The US is a federal republic and a union of 50 sovereign states, so laws vary from state to state. I know California is a very cheater friendly state and it's laws are different from my own state. So he's best off consulting a lawyer who's versed in California family law.
> 
> I know, I know. Having 50 states with differing laws can be quite the pain in the ass.


Even in the UK the laws of Scotland are different to those of England and Wales, and Northern Ireland is different in some ways, too.


----------



## lordmayhem

MattMatt said:


> Even in the UK the laws of Scotland are different to those of England and Wales, and Northern Ireland is different in some ways, too.


Then you have an idea of the frustration we feel here.


----------



## Wazza

lordmayhem said:


> :iagree:
> 
> WW is an expert liar too. She was able to lie straight to bff's face and shag OM for 6 years without bff finding out.


Not sure that is true. Once BFF became suspicious it all unravelled pretty quickly. Mind you, the initial conversation suggests someone had thought about what to say in advance, since the normal reaction would be to just deny everything. But whether it was her...don't know.

For what it's worth, I'm in the camp that the WW and BFF were probably both played for suckers by the OM. BFF is a smart guy who didn't get suspicious for a long time, either of his wife's behaviour or at what many of us think is a very odd best friend relationship. That's why I posted earlier to watch for the money. At least one possible scenario is that he sweet talks her sufficiently to get hold of the cash before burning her. The fact that they changed the phone passwords says someone is thinking strategically in that camp. But BFFs story about the conversation with the realtor suggests to me that she really is going "What have I done?"


If I am right, then a few years from now she is going to be in a very sad place.

Not feeling sorry for her, she is responsible for her decision to cheat over an extended period.


----------



## Wazza

Satchel Rage said:


> Cool Story Bro.
> 
> You handled it well. Most men that come on TAM and talk about their Cheating Wives are shrinking violets. Glad you pulled through. I'm also glad that you didn't listen to the dunce heads that kept saying "you need more evidence, You need more proof", like you're trying to be 007 or sherlock holmes trying to catch your ex-wife in the act. I think people just wanted to read a train wreck thriller.
> 
> Your questioning of your wife was Epic for TAM. It's a blue print for the Beta's on here. They really need it.


Well as one of those dunces I guess....all I did was point out that BFF didn't have a smoking gun. Still true. Read his story of the encounter. If she hadn't lied about OM coming over so often while he was away, he would not have been able to say "I know more than you think and you are lying."

Mind you, fwiw I would have personally confronted sooner, not that it makes much difference when something has gone on this long. But I still think the way BFF handled it was masterful.


----------



## Wazza

bff said:


> Yeah, I have to agree, here. My confrontation could VERY EASILY have gone the other direction. I don't know if it was a subconscious desire on my W's part to finally have it exposed, the overwhelming guilt or my masterful line of questioning and bluffing, but if she didn't admit to the physical part of the relationship, I would be a complete effing mess right now in a horrible limbo and they'd be deep deep underground. Looking back, I have to agree that I should have kept my cool, placed a VAR in the bedroom or in the kitchen and gotten out of the house for one more miserable night of evidence gathering. I took a calculated risk and it worked out. But, that was a big risk. I don't think I could have divorced if I had no evidence or admission of a physical affair, and I don't know how I could have continued my PI work for much longer, either.


I don't think I could ever recover from hearing the recording that would have been a smoking gun.


----------



## warlock07

bff, you need to be careful with these people now. She is not you. While she might remain decent and rational through the whole thing, don't bank on it. Don't expect them to play fair


----------



## TBT

Sounds like the OM is a conman of a certain type.He relies on the largesse of bff and other men in this group of friends to pad his income while ingratiating himself with the women.Wonder how many other wives and husbands in this social mix he has taken for a ride?


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

lordmayhem said:


> :iagree:
> 
> WW is an expert liar too. She was able to lie straight to bff's face and shag OM for 6 years without bff finding out.


Sadly, sometimes the cheater doesn't have to be that great of a liar. It appears that while BFF was busting his arse making a sizable income to provide for his wife (and possible kid), he missed a lot of clues that otherwise less ambitious people would've noticed. This isn't a putdown of BFF, it's just a fact that sometimes we get so consumed by our work that we don't pay attention to what's going on in our personal lives.

This sucks because I've been there. I spent a year trying to start a business and missed things about my ex that should've been obvious. I just convinced myself that she was acting funny because she was fearful about me going out on my own.


----------



## Caribbean Man

happyman64 said:


> BFF
> 
> Follow your attorneys advice.
> 
> With respect to mutual friends, my fiancé was banging my best friend and a handful of my closest friends knew.
> 
> I actually know. She dated a few of these guys while I was deployed.
> 
> When I found out the whole story I walked away from them all.
> 
> A f*ew tried to initiate contact and apologize.
> 
> I told them apologies not accepted and Bro's before Ho's.
> 
> Then I beat the crap out of each one of them. They got the message loud and clear.*
> 
> I made new friends and never looked back.
> 
> You will make new friends too! You will also find out who your real, true friends are after the fallout.
> 
> And people always ask if Karma is real.
> 
> Everyone of my so called friends from that period in my life have had crappy lives. I follow their progress through my HS website.
> 
> The BFF OM just had brain surgery and lost both of his parents really early on. I wished I ad known so I could have paid my respects to his Mom and Dad. They were good people.
> 
> So sad but true.
> 
> Live your life, work on you for your next relationship. Settle your D as soon as you can.
> 
> Then go find a good woman for yourself.
> 
> I guaranty you one thing. Your STBXW is really messed up and has really messed up her life.
> 
> The show is about to start. And that is if you even care enough to watch.
> 
> HM64


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
:smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:

Sometimes you just have to get it out of your system........


----------



## BrockLanders

MattMatt said:


> Even in the UK the laws of Scotland are different to those of England and Wales, and Northern Ireland is different in some ways, too.


Wales has lots of laws governing sheep-human relations from what I hear.

:lol:


----------



## Caribbean Man

TBT said:


> *Sounds like the OM is a conman of a certain type.He relies on the largesse of bff and other men in this group of friends to pad his income while ingratiating himself with the women.Wonder how many other wives and husbands in this social mix he has taken for a ride?*



:iagree:
The OM is what I call a hyena. They never hunt for their own food,they always feed off the kill of other animals...
But one thing I have learned is that lions & hyenas NEVER coexist.
Every married man is supposed to be a lion, a [email protected]/ hyena blocker.
You cannot come into MY house, put your filthy hands and steal things from my cookie jar....
That is the ultimate disrespect.
Like the poster," happyman" above said, I will beat the crap out of you....
Some men only understand and respect physical pain.


----------



## theroad

lordmayhem said:


> I knew it was at least a 5 year LTA, because OM brought his GF to a party 5 years ago, your WW got upset and wanted to go. She was obviously jealous of the GF. And seeing as how the OMGF knew about about it 6 years ago, she knew about the affair 1 year before going to the party. She probably wanted to see your WW. That probably explains why you didn't see her after that.
> 
> If only she had exposed the affair to you 6 years ago. For the past 6 years, your marriage has been a lie. Which means technically, you've only been married to her for 4 years. But damn, it must really hurt to know your WW has been banging this OM behind your back for the past 6 years. Was there any indication at all that she was doing this for the past 6 years? Or had she gotten so good at hiding her double life from you that she didn't show any red flags of an affair?


Great insight. All to often we miss the clues.


----------



## turnera

Shaggy said:


> I do think that you should tell you WWs mother about his long it went on for, just so she doesn't down play it as recent or one time.
> 
> This will help get them to back off trying to get you to condider R.


 Most definitely!


----------



## bff

Were there signs? Yes, of course. Knowing what I know now, the signs were so obvious that they were essentially hitting me over the head. I will list out what I saw and either didn't realize was a sign or realized but yet didn't confront on for reasons that I need to work on, clearly....

- already mentioned that 6 years ago I found out there were hundreds of texts between the two in a month. We were all relatively new friends at that point and my wife was his instructor for a hobby we all share (winter disclose for privacy reasons). So she explained it away as him asking her lots of questions
- couple years ago I found a t shirt that wasn't mine in the laundry as it came out of the dryer. She said she borrowed it from him after she went running one time and ended up at his shop (which happened all the time so I wasn't too suspicious.
- several months ago, after coming home from work, I went back to her office, kissed her hello and secondary later after walking back into the living room, got an IM saying "sorry I had to hang up, H walked in the door". Confronted her on that but then eventually didn't push in it. Sigh.
- sex all but stopped a few years ago. Even while paying big $$ for IVF we weren't "trying" every month. When I asked about that, she insisted that she did, indeed make sure we had sex every month when she was ovulating. Maybe I misheard her and she said she made sure SHE had sex every month at that time...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

bff said:


> Were there signs? Yes, of course. Knowing what I know now, the signs were so obvious that they were essentially hitting me over the head. I will list out what I saw and either didn't realize was a sign or realized but yet didn't confront on for reasons that I need to work on, clearly....
> 
> - already mentioned that 6 years ago I found out there were hundreds of texts between the two in a month. We were all relatively new friends at that point and my wife was his instructor for a hobby we all share (winter disclose for privacy reasons). So she explained it away as him asking her lots of questions
> - couple years ago I found a t shirt that wasn't mine in the laundry as it came out of the dryer. She said she borrowed it from him after she went running one time and ended up at his shop (which happened all the time so I wasn't too suspicious.
> - several months ago, after coming home from work, I went back to her office, kissed her hello and secondary later after walking back into the living room, got an IM saying "sorry I had to hang up, H walked in the door". Confronted her on that but then eventually didn't push in it. Sigh.
> - sex all but stopped a few years ago. Even while paying big $$ for IVF we weren't "trying" every month. When I asked about that, she insisted that she did, indeed make sure we had sex every month when she was ovulating. Maybe I misheard her and she said she made sure SHE had sex every month at that time...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


WOW -- no doubt in my mind that I think your wife was in love with this guy. If she had sex with you -- she would be cheating on him. Now that this is all out in the open it will interesting to see what happens.

Again -- not your problem --- just protect yourself from these two -- as I don't believe you have heard or seen the last from them. 

Continue to take care of yourself and prepare for the worse.


----------



## bff

Accidental submittal on phone....

- she kept her phone with her 24/7. Even took it into the bathroom when she showered. Also kept it locked all the time. Claimed that was because she got work email on it.
- the sipping from his drink thing I already talked about. There were more things like that. If cold, she would often borrow his fleece.
- our group of friends always had this thing that if you didn't make eye contact on a "cheers" before you drank. You'd have 7 years of bad sex. I always felt like WW and OM always made a special effort to lock eyes and I swore I could see a little smirk on his face each time. Believe it or not THIS is the little mind movie that hurts me the most. It is the most personal, graphic example to me that he knew he was f&?king me over and was enjoying it, right in front of my face.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bff

Jh52 - hurts to think about it that way but you are right. I've been the OM for a long time. I was her primary relationship only on paper.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jellybeans

bff said:


> Were there signs? Yes, of course. Knowing what I know now, the signs were so obvious that they were essentially hitting me over the head. I will list out what I saw and either didn't realize was a sign or realized but yet didn't confront on for reasons that I need to work on, clearly....
> 
> - already mentioned that 6 years ago I found out there were hundreds of texts between the two in a month.
> 
> - couple years ago I found a t shirt that wasn't mine in the laundry as it came out of the dryer. She said she borrowed it from him after she went running one time and ended up at his shop (which happened all the time so I wasn't too suspicious.
> 
> - several months ago, after coming home from work, I went back to her office, kissed her hello and secondary later after walking back into the living room, got an IM saying "sorry I had to hang up, H walked in the door". Confronted her on that but then eventually didn't push in it. Sigh.
> - sex all but stopped a few years ago.
> 
> - she kept her phone with her 24/7. Even took it into the bathroom when she showered. Also kept it locked all the time. Claimed that was because she got work email on it.
> 
> - our group of friends always had this thing that if you didn't make eye contact on a "cheers" before you drank. You'd have 7 years of bad sex. I always felt like WW and OM always made a special effort to lock eyes and I swore I could see a little smirk on his face each time. Believe it or not THIS is the little mind movie that hurts me the most. It is the most personal, graphic example to me that he knew he was f&?king me over and was enjoying it, right in front of my face.


UGH.  I am so sorry. Yeah it seems like they were pretty blatant about it. And the fact it went on so long really sucks, Bff. I really hope you are keeping yourself hydrated and well-fed and getting outside for fresh air. 

The thing you mentioned about the phone--her taking it everything and especially to the bathroom with her--that is seriously 1 of the most telling signs of cheating.

Sorry for your pain. You are much better off.


----------



## KanDo

bff,

I applaud you for heeding the advice to contact the girl friend. You did her and yourself a favor by doing so. As I have opined before, I am glad to see your strength through out this tragedy. Just be mindful that there are rough times ahead. You may have feelings of regret and confusion as you remember the good times of your marriage. This is normal. Just stay strong and realize that those memories are a fantasy. Great things lie ahead. I have found that remaining no contact except for divorce essentials has served me well. Others have recommended the same. I dumped all friends that I was confident were complicit. I believe anger is useful in the early days. It will eventually pass and you will be left with indifference. This is sign that you are truly "over" it. 

There are many here who will provide virtual support through the rest of your ordeal. I share the thoughts of others that this will likely get more messy as the divorce terms are worked on.

Good luck!


----------



## DailyGrind

bff said:


> - already mentioned that 6 years ago I found out there were hundreds of texts between the two in a month. *We were all relatively new friends at that point and my wife was his instructor for a hobby we all share *(winter disclose for privacy reasons). So she explained it away as him asking her lots of questions
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This tells me he ABSOLUTELY never was your friend. He was after her from the start. I think you need to forget about the "losing an old friend" thing. He never was. My guess....as you get out of the betrayal fog.....looking back, you will realize...he really never was there for YOU.....he was there for HER.

One example is that he never included his GF in your get togethers. That struck me as very odd, from the beginning of your story. It also struck me as odd...that you (BFF) didn't find it odd. If you were important to him, and GF was important to him, she would have been a part of your group. Very odd.


----------



## betamale

bff, your STBxW is the most dishonest person I've read about on this site. Get rid of her. You'll get more honesty from a professional sex worker than from your W. She sounds like a serial cheater.


----------



## betamale

Yes, I know bff filed for divorce, but that doesn't mean he'll get rid of her for ever.


----------



## Jellybeans

betamale said:


> Yes, I know bff filed for divorce, but that doesn't mean he'll get rid of her for ever.


Um, actually, that is exactly what it means. They have no children so he can start over completely fresh. Which is great.


----------



## Hoosier

BFF, so sorry man, so sorry! My D day was 7/10/2011. On that day I found out that my wife of 30 years was having an affair with a friend of ours of 20 years! When confronted about a text message found on her phone she literally went upstairs to our bedroom, packed two suit cases and WALKED to his home 5 blocks away. She has been there since, and two weeks ago they got married. 
Just want you to know that missing the signs is nothing to be ashamed about. Since this happened I have found out that 1. They texted constantly, 480 or more a month for over a year! 2. the Christmas before DD she texted him at 1am (after having sex with me) then immediately upon waking up on Christmas day. 3. They worked a small handy man business together, which I liked as it made her happy and was going to bring an additional amount of money into our home (she had been a stay at home mom for 25 years). Our usual course of the day was for me to meet them at a local restaurant for lunch, in which I always paid. When I think of how they must of loved me being the fool I want to kick his ass. He is 65, she, and I are 52. I have three daughters all in their twentys, who are the only reason I havent as they have begged me to stay out of the fray, not go to jail. My point is that I am a reasonably smart guy, own my own business, make a good living, and I missed it all! Do not fault yourself for believing in your spouse, thinking that she like you would not do this kind of thing. Truth is your w is a damaged person, her carrying on for so long proves this. The fact that you trusted her, never checked up on her just means that you are a stand up guy, you wouldnt do that to someone and cant believe someone who "loves" you would do it to you. Now, you must take care of yourself! Eat right, sleep right, do some physical activity. I lift weights and swim (down 65 pounds) and find that when I am at my lowest, working out is the best cure. Time does heal, but it is a slow change not something that happens overnight. I am now in a relationship with a wonderful woman, who is positive, happy and active. The exact opposite of my xw. I am much happier than anytime in the last 10 years of my marriage. Loving a woman who truely wants to be with you is wonderful! I did not realize the difference, but now, everyday, I find myself shaking my head in disbelief in how much better thnigs are. I still love and miss my x at times, but they are fewer and less severe as time goes by. Give yourself some time to heal and take care.


----------



## bff

Quickly - give betaman a break! It's a legit question/concern and unless you've followed all 50 pages, you might not know that I am 100% resolved to rid my life of STBxW and OM. For those late to the party, know that this is now INEVITABLE.

Hoosier - your post means a lot to me. Thanks! What you say really resonates with me. The lunches where I always paid for OM. The sickening feeling I have now that they were touching under the table or who knows... The OM GF told me that the way she found out was a christmas eve text 6 years ago. One of the greatest (and also saddest) things about finding TAM is how often your story and my story (and many of those posting and supporting me here) are repeated around the world. I just had NO IDEA how much infidelity there is out there. I guess I've learned an important life lesson and now know to look out for myself and my friends in a whole different way. That doesn't mean I won't trust people, it just means that, like the anti-terrorist mantra goes... If you see something, say something.


----------



## bff

Oh, and one other thing. While I really appreciate (I *really* do!) the sympathy and condolences, I think it is time that instead a saying how sorry you feel for me, we turn the corner... it's CONGRATULATIONS time!! I know that I'll fall back into some deeply sorrowful feelings from time to time, but right now, I FEEL F*&KING AWESOME and there is a HUGE weight lifted off my shoulders. It's like a lost a freaking anchor around my waist that I didn't even realize I was dragging around. Every day instead of thinking about all the things that I'm going to miss (I did have a lot of great times with those two), I'm thinking about all the little things I haven't had for years and years - a heartfelt "welcome home, I missed you!" after a business trip, almost any sort of playfulness, *fun* in the bedroom, any sort of passionate kissing, an "I love you" for no reason at all... I am so, so, so, so looking forward to the next couple years of my life as I make up for lost ground.

Pause button is off. Straight to fast forward.


----------



## sandc

bff said:


> right now, I FEEL F*&KING AWESOME and there is a HUGE weight lifted off my shoulders. It's like a lost a freaking anchor around my waist that I didn't even realize I was dragging around.
> ...
> Pause button is off. Straight to fast forward.


All ahead, warp factor 12 captain. 

That "hobby" you guys shared. I assume other women are in that hobby as well? Either a) pick a really good one from that hobby and smile and wave a lot at POSOM and STBXW or b) find a new hobby with more women in it and smile and wave a lot at POSOM and STBXW.

Hearing 'I love you' and 'I missed you' and having a clean phone bill.... that's what life's all about bud.


----------



## Unsure in Seattle

The rest of your life looms ahead, brother.


----------



## Entropy3000

Caribbean Man said:


> [/B]
> :iagree:
> The OM is what I call a hyena. They never hunt for their own food,they always feed off the kill of other animals...
> But one thing I have learned is that lions & hyenas NEVER coexist.
> Every married man is supposed to be a lion, a [email protected]/ hyena blocker.
> You cannot come into MY house, put your filthy hands and steal things from my cookie jar....
> That is the ultimate disrespect.
> Like the poster," happyman" above said, I will beat the crap out of you....
> Some men only understand and respect physical pain.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Ansley

bff said:


> Oh, and one other thing. While I really appreciate (I *really* do!) the sympathy and condolences, I think it is time that instead a saying how sorry you feel for me, we turn the corner... it's CONGRATULATIONS time!! I know that I'll fall back into some deeply sorrowful feelings from time to time, but right now, I FEEL F*&KING AWESOME and there is a HUGE weight lifted off my shoulders. It's like a lost a freaking anchor around my waist that I didn't even realize I was dragging around. Every day instead of thinking about all the things that I'm going to miss (I did have a lot of great times with those two), I'm thinking about all the little things I haven't had for years and years - a heartfelt "welcome home, I missed you!" after a business trip, almost any sort of playfulness, *fun* in the bedroom, any sort of passionate kissing, an "I love you" for no reason at all... I am so, so, so, so looking forward to the next couple years of my life as I make up for lost ground.
> 
> Pause button is off. Straight to fast forward.



I LOVE IT ! THAT IS GREAT! :smthumbup:


----------



## sandc

Oh, and don't forget the STD test. Though if you were going to get a disease you'd probably already have it by now. I'd check anyway.


----------



## bff

Dr. appointment this afternoon. STD/HIV testing, asking for prescription for something to help with sleep and WTF is up with these cold symptoms I've had for the last 3 weeks while under constant stress?

See, I am taking [most of] the advice, here!


----------



## Almostrecovered

bff said:


> Dr. appointment this afternoon. STD/HIV testing, asking for prescription for something to help with sleep and WTF is up with these cold symptoms I've had for the last 3 weeks while under constant stress?
> 
> See, I am taking [most of] the advice, here!


your immune system gets repressed during times of high stress, the see your doctor link in my signature goes over that in more detail


----------



## warlock07

bff said:


> Accidental submittal on phone....
> 
> - she kept her phone with her 24/7. Even took it into the bathroom when she showered. Also kept it locked all the time. Claimed that was because she got work email on it.
> - the sipping from his drink thing I already talked about. There were more things like that. If cold, she would often borrow his fleece.
> - our group of friends always had this thing that if you didn't make eye contact on a "cheers" before you drank. You'd have 7 years of bad sex. I always felt like WW and OM always made a special effort to lock eyes and I swore I could see a little smirk on his face each time. Believe it or not THIS is the little mind movie that hurts me the most. It is the most personal, graphic example to me that he knew he was f&?king me over and was enjoying it, right in front of my face.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know this all seems nought for now but I don't think you even have 1% of the amount of betrayal that went on. You did not even get to the tip of the iceberg here. The truth will be horrific but I am not sure if that will be helpful to you at this point!!


----------



## bff

warlock07 said:


> I know this all seems nought for now but I don't think you even have 1% of the amount of betrayal that went on. You did not even get to the tip of the iceberg here. The truth will be horrific but I am not sure if that will be helpful to you at this point!!


I'm afraid you're right. I also feel ok (at least for now, as you said) not knowing. It's not like they're "dead to me", but I'm moving on. I do have some important lessons to learn from this, clearly, but I'm not sure knowing the full extent of the betrayal, unless there are other parties involved that I should be wary of, will help me in my pursuit of happiness. 

What do others think? Should I waste even a second of my life looking backwards and digging in to that? Or should I keep the focus ahead?


----------



## Unsure in Seattle

They should be dead to you. But having said that- full steam ahead.


----------



## Almostrecovered

bff said:


> I'm afraid you're right. I also feel ok (at least for now, as you said) not knowing. It's not like they're "dead to me", but I'm moving on. I do have some important lessons to learn from this, clearly, but I'm not sure knowing the full extent of the betrayal, unless there are other parties involved that I should be wary of, will help me in my pursuit of happiness.
> 
> What do others think? Should I waste even a second of my life looking backwards and digging in to that? Or should I keep the focus ahead?


learn from it, don't dwell on it

there's balance in most everything in life that we should achieve


----------



## Jellybeans

Keep the focus ahead.

You already know the basics (that she had a long term affair with hijm) and have filed divorce. Move forward, never backward.


----------



## AngryandUsed

BFF has acknowledged that he had indirectly enabled the affair.

Given the strength and intelligence of BFF, I dont understand how he missed it for 7 long years.

I also remember BFF was saying something about "hollow" marriage.


----------



## MattMatt

warlock07 said:


> I know this all seems nought for now but I don't think you even have 1% of the amount of betrayal that went on. You did not even get to the tip of the iceberg here. The truth will be horrific but I am not sure if that will be helpful to you at this point!!


Wait until all the other husbands find out about what he was doing with their wives... And I am being serious when I make that point.

Oh, probably not as often as with his Number 1 target, but even so...


----------



## sandc

bff said:


> Dr. appointment this afternoon. STD/HIV testing, asking for prescription for something to help with sleep and WTF is up with these cold symptoms I've had for the last 3 weeks while under constant stress?
> 
> See, I am taking [most of] the advice, here!


Allergies? Valley fever? Stress does weird things to you. Try to decompress. Go riding. Do adrenaline junkie stuff. Whatever relaxes you at the end of the day. It will help.


----------



## warlock07

bff said:


> I'm afraid you're right. I also feel ok (at least for now, as you said) not knowing. It's not like they're "dead to me", but I'm moving on. I do have some important lessons to learn from this, clearly, but I'm not sure knowing the full extent of the betrayal, unless there are other parties involved that I should be wary of, will help me in my pursuit of happiness.
> 
> What do others think? Should I waste even a second of my life looking backwards and digging in to that? Or should I keep the focus ahead?


Well, that depends on how you will let it affect you.While you might not want to actively obsess over it, having the truth in black and white might help you in many other ways. 
The discussions with her about the finances should also give you an insight about how remorseful she is. May be additional proof might be useful as a bargain tool during divorce proceedings if she decides to get nasty or spiteful.
I hate that she is getting away with so much of your hard earned money. I would rather have it donated to a charity.


----------



## sandc

bff said:


> What do others think? Should I waste even a second of my life looking backwards and digging in to that? Or should I keep the focus ahead?


What? Is this really a question? :scratchhead: 

What the (insert favorite word here) do you think? 

Dude there is so much out there. Get out of the miserable little swamp that POSOM and WW have you living in and freaking LIVE! You have a tremendous opportunity here.


----------



## Mike11

Did your STBXW tried to make more contact ? or have you heard more from other Friends, it would have been good to gather as much intelligence as possible at this stage of her state of mind and whereabouts to prepare for any nastiness that may start once she will get served

you also need to be prepared to the fact that he will try to get control over your house (trough your STBXW)


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

Almostrecovered said:


> your immune system gets repressed during times of high stress, the see your doctor link in my signature goes over that in more detail


Vitamin C handles cortisol well, very well infact its the ultimate stress buster. No need to get prescribed an anti depressant or anything of the sort for your matter, eat plenty healthy, lots of raw vegetables in salads and fruits in the morning and for snacks!

Oh and maybe.. hmm...congratulations..?


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

bff said:


> I'm afraid you're right. I also feel ok (at least for now, as you said) not knowing. It's not like they're "dead to me", but I'm moving on. I do have some important lessons to learn from this, clearly, but I'm not sure knowing the full extent of the betrayal, unless there are other parties involved that I should be wary of, will help me in my pursuit of happiness.
> 
> What do others think? Should I waste even a second of my life looking backwards and digging in to that? Or should I keep the focus ahead?


Don't look back, you'll crash. You don't need the details, you've already decided, you're set on, you're the pilot of the X/A wing fighters from star wars so I say to you "stay on target, stay on target, stay on target!!!!!!!!!"


----------



## NaturalHeart

bff said:


> Oh, and one other thing. While I really appreciate (I *really* do!) the sympathy and condolences, I think it is time that instead a saying how sorry you feel for me, we turn the corner... it's CONGRATULATIONS time!! I know that I'll fall back into some deeply sorrowful feelings from time to time, but right now, I FEEL F*&KING AWESOME and there is a HUGE weight lifted off my shoulders. It's like a lost a freaking anchor around my waist that I didn't even realize I was dragging around. Every day instead of thinking about all the things that I'm going to miss (I did have a lot of great times with those two), *I'm thinking about all the little things I haven't had for years and years - a heartfelt "welcome home, I missed you!" after a business trip, almost any sort of playfulness, *fun* in the bedroom, any sort of passionate kissing, an "I love you" for no reason at all... I am so, so, so, so looking forward to the next couple years of my life as I make up for lost ground.*
> 
> Pause button is off. Straight to fast forward.


Now that's what I'm talking about!


----------



## Wazza

bff said:


> I'm afraid you're right. I also feel ok (at least for now, as you said) not knowing. It's not like they're "dead to me", but I'm moving on. I do have some important lessons to learn from this, clearly, but I'm not sure knowing the full extent of the betrayal, unless there are other parties involved that I should be wary of, will help me in my pursuit of happiness.
> 
> What do others think? Should I waste even a second of my life looking backwards and digging in to that? Or should I keep the focus ahead?


I think you know everything that matters. I would have said youofo know the full extent (sexual, emotional, financial) but just not details which would not change the big picture.

Dig if you have to but stopping digging is key to healing.


----------



## BrockLanders

bff said:


> I'm afraid you're right. I also feel ok (at least for now, as you said) not knowing. It's not like they're "dead to me", but I'm moving on. I do have some important lessons to learn from this, clearly, but I'm not sure knowing the full extent of the betrayal, unless there are other parties involved that I should be wary of, will help me in my pursuit of happiness.
> 
> What do others think? Should I waste even a second of my life looking backwards and digging in to that? Or should I keep the focus ahead?


There's one thing I'd be dying to know. If you guys were at the point of doing IVF then you definitely had to have been doing lesser things before. Was she taking Clomid at any time while getting creampies from the POSOM? How close did you come to raising another man's triplets?


----------



## Chaparral

One thing you might consider, is asking OMW if she knows of any other affairs he has had.


----------



## justincase

I was wondering the same thing. Were you paying for THEIR IVF? Maybe their plan was to get you on the hook for child support? This would have also been the case for adoption. If she left before you had really bonded with the child, then you might have given up visitation and still been on the hook for child support.


----------



## BrockLanders

justincase said:


> I was wondering the same thing. Were you paying for THEIR IVF? Maybe their plan was to get you on the hook for child support? This would have also been the case for adoption. If she left before you had really bonded with the child, then you might have given up visitation and still been on the hook for child support.


 With IVF the OP would have had to give sperm to the Dr as they implant an embryo in the woman. There's no faking it. My question was about before they did IVF. I find it hard to believe that the OM and WW were using condoms as they would have eventually messed up and left behind evidence. Therefore its likely that the WW was at one point taking drugs to make her super fertile while banging both guys.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Time to find yourself a hot new (younger) replacement. Oh ya...


----------



## PBear

I just wonder how useful the idle speculation with graphic detail is to the OP... Seems a little much, to me...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Unsure in Seattle

Totally agreed, Bear. The speculation is pointless. We don't need to put anymore bad images in Bff's head.


----------



## bff

Bring it. I don't mind. It all just hardens my 100% resolve. This situation is so eff'd up that it seems almost surreal. All of this type of speculation just *might* someday be enough to get someone like me off the couch and sifting through phone records or placing time-lapse cameras. Much as all of you have helped me in ways that I will never, ever be able to thank you enough, for, perhaps this thread might scare someone into action. "Oh, my wife couldn't possibly be cheating on me. We're in the middle of fertility treatments. That wouldn't make any sense at all!" Well, my friends, I'm living proof that something doesn't have to make sense to be true.

I'm very strangely detached from the mind movies and images of the physical stuff. It's that mocking little voice and his laugh when they were making fun of me being "cheap" because I didn't immediately want to put all new flooring in the $1m house we moved in to 48 hours ago and the way he smirked when they made eye contact when toasting a drink. That's the sh1t that will haunt me and make me feel used and exploited. But, just enough to make me mad. Just mad enough to do what's gotta be done. Then it's all me-time for a while.


----------



## Shaggy

I suggest you post both of them on cheaterville.com. They both deserve it.

Now if this was me, I'd be demanding both houses get sold. Why let her and him have a nice new house you've paid for. Sell the houses divide the money and run, knowing that she and he will blow through it no matter how much she gets.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

tdwal said:


> What gets me us why would they have this affair so long? If they were truly so attached to each other, why didn't the WH just go for divorce and be with him.


What, and give up access to all of BFF's money?


----------



## lordmayhem

tdwal said:


> What gets me us why would they have this affair so long? If they were truly so attached to each other, why didn't the WH just go for divorce and be with him.


Because she's a cake eater. She wants keep BFF as the provider, while OM provides the sex and excitement.


----------



## bff

I don't think I want both houses sold. I don't CARE what she gets. I just want what I want. I like the house I'm in and don't want her to try and push me out of this one. If she stays in the new house, it's going to be VERY expensive for her on her own. Would rather see it bleed her/them dry.

To be clear, the houses will be assessed a fair value and then they need to be divided equally. So, if she wants to stay in that one, she'll have to give up an amount of cash equal to "buying me out" of the equity we have in it (the down payment, essentially). Correspondingly, I'll have to buy her out of this one. While this one is smaller and worth less, we have more equity in it, so I'll "owe" her more money. I'd rather work it out that way than have to deal with selling the houses, paying Realtor fees, etc.

Maybe I should post a picture of the view from where I'm sitting. You'll understand. ;-)


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

Lord Mayhem, I said it before and I'll say it again - that's some mighty fine looking cake.


----------



## iheartlife

tdwal said:


> What gets me us why would they have this affair so long? If they were truly so attached to each other, why didn't the WH just go for divorce and be with him.


tdwal, this is one of those great mysteries in life that we could spend eons pondering, like, Is There An Afterlife? or, Why Do Birds Suddenly Appear, Every Time You Are Near?

If cheaters DIDN'T do this, there would be no 'coping with infidelity,' there would be only, coping with divorce.

This is also why there are so many accoutrements to 'coping with infidelity,' i.e., exposure and verification.


----------



## iheartlife

bff said:


> I don't think I want both houses sold. I don't CARE what she gets. I just want what I want. I like the house I'm in and don't want her to try and push me out of this one. If she stays in the new house, it's going to be VERY expensive for her on her own. Would rather see it bleed her/them dry.
> 
> To be clear, the houses will be assessed a fair value and then they need to be divided equally. So, if she wants to stay in that one, she'll have to give up an amount of cash equal to "buying me out" of the equity we have in it (the down payment, essentially). Correspondingly, I'll have to buy her out of this one. While this one is smaller and worth less, we have more equity in it, so I'll "owe" her more money. I'd rather work it out that way than have to deal with selling the houses, paying Realtor fees, etc.
> 
> Maybe I should post a picture of the view from where I'm sitting. You'll understand. ;-)


I figured as much.

If you don't mind my saying so, how long has it been since you've felt a deep emotional connection with your wife. You seem (no offense) incredibly in control.


----------



## lordmayhem

tdwal said:


> What gets me us why would they have this affair so long? If they were truly so attached to each other, why didn't the WH just go for divorce and be with him.


Waywards who are in LTAs don't necessarily want to marry or run off with their Affair Partner (AP) for various reasons. For WHs, its usually because he has kids, for WWs its usually because her BHs makes a very good living and her OM would not be able to provide for her as well as her BH. So they keep their BS as their provider/babysitter while they go off and have fun and sex with their AP. Its having the best of both worlds. Hence the term, cake eater, from the saying "having your cake and eating it too". 

And who suffers the sexual and emotional neglect because the WS is putting all their emotional and sexual energy into the affair? The betrayed spouse of course.


----------



## lordmayhem

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Lord Mayhem, I said it before and I'll say it again - that's some mighty fine looking cake.


Thanks. It's carrot cake by the way. :smthumbup:


----------



## OldWolf57

bff, you da man bro. and BIG CONGRATS on dumping some dead weight.
Now you said he has a shop, does this mean he has a biz ?? If so you should get the word out. It already sound as if he is no biz man having to have you loan him money and stuff. Ruin that sucker rep and hope by that time ww has invested in the biz, so she lose all too.
There are just times I wish you guys was'nt so moral. But then again, thats why I admire you guys, and hate when you are done wrong.


----------



## TDSC60

lordmayhem said:


> Thanks. It's carrot cake by the way. :smthumbup:


With cream cheese frosting? My favorite.


----------



## the guy

Guys like that POSOM's, me and you have had to deal with are the kind of guys that will grow old and alone in some beat up trailer or ragged old house. You know the old codcher the neighbor kids make fun of.

These kind of evil poeple are the kind that get run over by the karma bus again and again but are to dumb to know it. It only hits them in there old age when they look around there beat up home and only see a million cats as they walk thru the cat boo. Soon they will be found dead by the postman with out one sigle person giving a damb about them.

God seems to reward poeple like you...after such b*llsh*t early in life, I have a feeling you will grow old a very fullfilled man with plenty of good poeple surronding you.

Like you said this is a begaining for you, but as far as the POS OM, it is the end, he will continue to slip away into emptiness, only to be some bitter old and alone hermit.


----------



## OldWolf57

Oh, that relief you feel, is from having the burden and worry of her not being able to have a child naturally is finally coming to the fore. You may have never even realized it was there, but was.


----------



## aug

the guy said:


> God seems to reward poeple like you...after such b*llsh*t early in life, I have a feeling you will grow old a very fullfilled man with plenty of good poeple surronding you.



You'll end up with a loving wife and 3 kids. You'll enjoy watching them grow up and be proud of their accomplishments.

Your ex will be barren the rest of her life. She'll see you one day with your kids and realize she gave it all up 6 years ago.


----------



## aug

OldWolf57 said:


> Oh, that relief you feel, is from having the burden and worry of her not being able to have a child naturally is finally coming to the fore. You may have never even realized it was there, but was.


I suspect she did not want any children while she was in her affair. She probably took some drugs to sabotage any chance of pregnancy. If she did get pregnant, she would not had known who the father of the child is and the logistics of the child upbringing would be messy. I think she figured out the best way to remain with her lover is to be infertile.


----------



## OldWolf57

Another note bff, he might be gloating to her, but in his thoughts, he is still jealous of you and your success, which seem to come without much effort to him.
And now that you have just DUMP her without breaking down for all to see, and without repeated attempts to question her for more details, he is hating you. 
You have not giving him what he has dreamed would happened when it came out. He saw a big blowup and you being destroyed emotionally, calling him and questioning. Instead, you got what you wanted to know and KICKED HIM and HER in the gutter, and never looked back.
All those times he was laughing under his breath at weak lil you, you have shown him and her that you really don't value her that much. Thats what they are seeing now. NEVER let the scum see the hurt.
Oh, and she might be nice now, but once she gets over her lil embrassment toward you, she is going to resent you for not at least talking of R. So let the lawyers do the talking. If she needs anything from the house, tell her to set it up through them.


----------



## sandc

aug said:


> You'll end up with a loving wife and 3 kids. You'll enjoy watching them grow up and be proud of their accomplishments.
> 
> Your ex will be barren the rest of her life. She'll see you one day with your kids and realize she gave it all up 6 years ago.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

THIS will be your revenge for the affair. When she sees you with a pregnant woman, or walking with your kids, or both??! She's going to be hating life.


----------



## spudster

Wolf is right. The less you talk to her directly the better. 

Let her know through text or e-mail that if she wants to talk to you, she needs to pass the message on through your lawyer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

I like to look at it this way:

You're getting your freedom from a liar and a cheater. You have a great income and a future. The OM, at best he's stuck with a broken person who has no guilt at being at liar and cheat for years.

In other words, out of three of you, only you are winning here.


----------



## mina

to me seems like it's time to put this thread to bed and put it in the past, along with everything that happened. 

what's to be gained by rehashing and going over it all again? you've been through it, you made it to the other side, time to go forward and never look back. 

I'd not spend one more minute of your time worrying about it. it's just another minute of your life they are stealing from you.


----------



## sandc

mina said:


> to me seems like it's time to put this thread to bed and put it in the past, along with everything that happened.
> 
> what's to be gained by rehashing and going over it all again? you've been through it, you made it to the other side, time to go forward and never look back.
> 
> I'd not spend one more minute of your time worrying about it. it's just another minute of your life they are stealing from you.


He is here to help other people by telling his story. Maybe someone will read this and see similarities to their own situation and be helped by what bff discovered, what he went through, and how his story progresses.


----------



## Ansley

mina said:


> to me seems like it's time to put this thread to bed and put it in the past, along with everything that happened.
> 
> what's to be gained by rehashing and going over it all again? you've been through it, you made it to the other side, time to go forward and never look back.
> 
> I'd not spend one more minute of your time worrying about it. it's just another minute of your life they are stealing from you.



Please dont be cruel. When a relationship ends it is like a death..total flip in universe. You dont sum it up with "lets talk about something else and get over it"


----------



## MattMatt

mina said:


> to me seems like it's time to put this thread to bed and put it in the past, along with everything that happened.
> 
> what's to be gained by rehashing and going over it all again? you've been through it, you made it to the other side, time to go forward and never look back.
> 
> I'd not spend one more minute of your time worrying about it. it's just another minute of your life they are stealing from you.


Ummm... so he can get closure? Help other people?


----------



## jh52

mina said:


> to me seems like it's time to put this thread to bed and put it in the past, along with everything that happened.
> 
> what's to be gained by rehashing and going over it all again? you've been through it, you made it to the other side, time to go forward and never look back.
> 
> I'd not spend one more minute of your time worrying about it. it's just another minute of your life they are stealing from you.


Mina -- if you don't like what is on this channel -- just change the channel and/or don't watch. :scratchhead:


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

mina said:


> to me seems like it's time to put this thread to bed and put it in the past, along with everything that happened.
> 
> what's to be gained by rehashing and going over it all again? you've been through it, you made it to the other side, time to go forward and never look back.
> 
> I'd not spend one more minute of your time worrying about it. it's just another minute of your life they are stealing from you.


Rugsweeper?


----------



## MarriedTex

bff said:


> I don't think I want both houses sold. I don't CARE what she gets. I just want what I want. I like the house I'm in and don't want her to try and push me out of this one. If she stays in the new house, it's going to be VERY expensive for her on her own. Would rather see it bleed her/them dry.
> 
> To be clear, the houses will be assessed a fair value and then they need to be divided equally. So, if she wants to stay in that one, she'll have to give up an amount of cash equal to "buying me out" of the equity we have in it (the down payment, essentially). Correspondingly, I'll have to buy her out of this one. While this one is smaller and worth less, we have more equity in it, so I'll "owe" her more money. I'd rather work it out that way than have to deal with selling the houses, paying Realtor fees, etc.
> 
> Maybe I should post a picture of the view from where I'm sitting. You'll understand. ;-)


This is absolutely right way to go. She will not be able to support payment & taxes on $85 K salary (at least not in a way that she can buy new flooring at the drop of a hat.) Sounds like he won't be able to pitch in any more than she makes. Put together, their household would pull in $150 K pre-tax, $120 K after-tax, if they have good accountant.

She can either keep the house or lead a nice lifestyle with nice things, good vacations etc. But probably not both. 

The affair fog probably is keeping her from realizing this right now. But BFF has the score figured out. STBX and buddy will soon learn that money doesn't go quite as far when BFF sugar daddy is not around to pad the bank account. They won't be laughing about cheapskates not putting in new flooring soon enough. They won't have enough to pay those bills. 

BFF knows their weakness is in money management. If those two hold onto that house, it will be sold or in foreclosure within three years.


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

Post a picture of the view. Keep us updated!


----------



## aug

MarriedTex said:


> This is absolutely right way to go. She will not be able to support payment & taxes on $85 K salary (at least not in a way that she can buy new flooring at the drop of a hat.) Sounds like he won't be able to pitch in any more than she makes. Put together, their household would pull in $150 K pre-tax, $120 K after-tax, if they have good accountant.
> 
> She can either keep the house or lead a nice lifestyle with nice things, good vacations etc. But probably not both.
> 
> The affair fog probably is keeping her from realizing this right now. But BFF has the score figured out. STBX and buddy will soon learn that money doesn't go quite as far when BFF sugar daddy is not around to pad the bank account. They won't be laughing about cheapskates not putting in new flooring soon enough. They won't have enough to pay those bills.
> 
> BFF knows their weakness is in money management. If those two hold onto that house, it will be sold or in foreclosure within three years.



I think the OM can provide the free labor to upkeep the house, so save lots of money there.

The mortgage should have a favorable rate from the bank the ex-wife works at. $85K is fair change. The ex-wife can live on it fairly comfortably. The OM would also be contributing with his income.

The OM can now settle down with the ex-wife, find religion, and turn himself around. But they cant have kids.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

The mortgage on a million dollar home is probably between 3K and 4K a month (depending on how much was put down) and I don't think a salary of 85K in California is going to cover that and the living expenses. They'll soon find themselves house poor with nothing left over for the niceties of life that BFF provided them.


----------



## mina

wow you guys really read a lot into what I wrote. being supportive my advice was to stop wasting time thinking about the gory details of what the WW did during her 6 years of being a not-wife. 

why waste any more time thinking about her? why waste time imagining what they did? time to move forward. time to stop wasting time on them. they obviously don't deserve being a part of bff's life any more.


----------



## iheartlife

mina said:


> wow you guys really read a lot into what I wrote. being supportive my advice was to stop wasting time thinking about the gory details of what the WW did during her 6 years of being a not-wife.
> 
> why waste any more time thinking about her? why waste time imagining what they did? time to move forward. time to stop wasting time on them. they obviously don't deserve being a part of bff's life any more.


That's how I took your post, actually. You were just saying, stop expending any energy in their direction and giving them any residual control over his life.


----------



## Shaggy

Unless you have put a lot down on the new house she won't qualify for the mortgage on it with only an 85k income if its a million dollar home. The taxes alone per year in CA will be at least 10K, insurance another 700-1500 etc.

Her only option will be to turn her share of assets into cash and use it to pay the mortgage down to her size, but the property taxes alone are what about 13% of her gross income.

Karma train is coming her way soon.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

Shaggy, you are so right. Hopefully, she's stupid enough to try and live in her 'dream' home. She may end up having to rent out the rooms just to afford it.


----------



## bff

There are a lot of smart people on here... Yes, mortgage will be about $3100 for the first few years before they'll have to lock in at a slightly higher rate. Spousal support, simply a fact of life given California law, will be around $1300 after taxes. So if she's bringing in $5.5k ish per month, doubt it will be attractive to pat that mortgage plus taxes (at least $1k per month) plus insurance. OM can't contribute squat. Even if he dumps GF, they sell their house (underwater), he's still got a pair of kids in college. This means WW is starting to take down the cash she'll have in the bank starting day one. That's the road to hell. I wouldn't want to be on it, especially with a trailer full of freeloaders hitched to your ass. Good luck!

Tonite I had dinner with a couple - old friends - who reminded me again just how blessed I FM to be surrounded by such caring, loving people. To measure WW and OM against these people is a joke. Jeez, several of you on this forum are quicker to come to my defense than my wife of almost 10 years. It's sad that it has taken such a tragedy to help me see what is really worth valuing in life - people who love you and you can trust.

Dr. appt went fine. Blood tests and therapist tomorrow. Friends house in sonoma for the weekend. I'm the luckiest guy on the planet! 

BTW - don't know if it is against protocol, but if any of you are in the SF bay area and want to meet for ****tails sometime, PM me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattMatt

mina said:


> wow you guys really read a lot into what I wrote. being supportive my advice was to stop wasting time thinking about the gory details of what the WW did during her 6 years of being a not-wife.
> 
> why waste any more time thinking about her? why waste time imagining what they did? time to move forward. time to stop wasting time on them. they obviously don't deserve being a part of bff's life any more.


Mina, because of what has happened to bff, and the way it happened, bff has a lot of issues to deal with. Issues that he knows he needs to think about, address and then process.

Issues like: Who of his friends knew? If they knew anything, what did they know? Who of his friends can he trust? 

How could his wife do it to him for so long? Could he have prevented it? Does he hold any responsibility?

What, and how much did the OM's GF know? 

And so on. Unless he can have answers to those questions, and others, he will not be able to move on with his life in any meaningful sense.


----------



## MattMatt

Shaggy said:


> Unless you have put a lot down on the new house she won't qualify for the mortgage on it with only an 85k income if its a million dollar home. The taxes alone per year in CA will be at least 10K, insurance another 700-1500 etc.
> 
> Her only option will be to turn her share of assets into cash and use it to pay the mortgage down to her size, but the property taxes alone are what about 13% of her gross income.
> 
> Karma train is coming her way soon.


Might have to sell house and then move into OM's place. Which would leave the GF in a very vulnerable position.


----------



## MattMatt

bff said:


> There are a lot of smart people on here... Yes, mortgage will be about $3100 for the first few years before they'll have to lock in at a slightly higher rate. Spousal support, simply a fact of life given California law, will be around $1300 after taxes. So if she's bringing in $5.5k ish per month, doubt it will be attractive to pat that mortgage plus taxes (at least $1k per month) plus insurance. OM can't contribute squat. Even if he dumps GF, they sell their house (underwater), he's still got a pair of kids in college. This means WW is starting to take down the cash she'll have in the bank starting day one. That's the road to hell. I wouldn't want to be on it, especially with a trailer full of freeloaders hitched to your ass. Good luck!
> 
> Tonite I had dinner with a couple - old friends - who reminded me again just how blessed I FM to be surrounded by such caring, loving people. To measure WW and OM against these people is a joke. Jeez, several of you on this forum are quicker to come to my defense than my wife of almost 10 years. It's sad that it has taken such a tragedy to help me see what is really worth valuing in life - people who love you and you can trust.
> 
> Dr. appt went fine. Blood tests and therapist tomorrow. Friends house in sonoma for the weekend. I'm the luckiest guy on the planet!
> 
> BTW - don't know if it is against protocol, but if any of you are in the SF bay area and want to meet for ****tails sometime, PM me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If only this was last year! I was on a business trip to the SF Bay area last September. Lagunista IPA! Now! There's a beer!


----------



## aug

bff said:


> There are a lot of smart people on here... Yes, mortgage will be about $3100 for the first few years before they'll have to lock in at a slightly higher rate. Spousal support, simply a fact of life given California law, will be around $1300 after taxes. So if she's bringing in $5.5k ish per month, doubt it will be attractive to pat that mortgage plus taxes (at least $1k per month) plus insurance. OM can't contribute squat. Even if he dumps GF, they sell their house (underwater), he's still got a pair of kids in college. This means WW is starting to take down the cash she'll have in the bank starting day one. That's the road to hell. I wouldn't want to be on it, especially with a trailer full of freeloaders hitched to your ass. Good luck!



So if she gets $1.3K from you, plus her $5.5K net from her job, that's $6.8K. House expense is $3.1K + $1K tax + $1K misc, that's still about $1.7K per month remaining.

If she starts hunkering down, she could get by. 

Her big payoff would be the divorce settlement.


----------



## MattMatt

aug said:


> So if she gets $1.3K from you, plus her $5.5K net from her job, that's $6.8K. House expense is $3.1K + $1K tax + $1K misc, that's still about $1.7K per month remaining.
> 
> If she starts hunkering down, she could get by.
> 
> Her big payoff would be the divorce settlement.


If there is a divorce settlement. If it can be proved her affair lasted the entire marriage, or even started before the marriage, could the marriage be annulled on the grounds of fraud or some such? (After all, no man would agree to marry if they wife had a lover and wanted to continue seeing their lover who she treated as her husband.)


----------



## aug

MattMatt said:


> If there is a divorce settlement. If it can be proved her affair lasted the entire marriage, or even started before the marriage, could the marriage be annulled on the grounds of fraud or some such? (After all, no man would agree to marry if they wife had a lover and wanted to continue seeing their lover who she treated as her husband.)


Been married 10+ years. Cant annul, I would think. 

affair started 6 years ago when she was an hobby instructor and the OM took her class.


----------



## golfergirl

aug said:


> So if she gets $1.3K from you, plus her $5.5K net from her job, that's $6.8K. House expense is $3.1K + $1K tax + $1K misc, that's still about $1.7K per month remaining.
> 
> If she starts hunkering down, she could get by.
> 
> Her big payoff would be the divorce settlement.


5.5 is alimony and income from work, not just income the way I read it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

million dollar house in SanFan= 1600 sq ft

okay, so that may be a bit of hyperbole, but cost of living there is incredibly high


----------



## Ansley

ahhh I didnt know the POSOM had kids in college...hmmmm... wonder what happened there? 

Exwife's cushy life is a thing of the past. Her $85k was a second income. Now she will have to watch every penny plus save for the future (given she plans to retire someday) It is a rarity in our house where we only have to pay our bills. Something always comes up..car repairs, holidays, appliances break etc... I think when the reality of the finances hits she will become very resentful of OM.


----------



## snap

On the other hand she worked part-time job for this $85k. Can she get promoted to full-time?


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

Actually, the 85K is from her full-time job. BFF trickled truthed us early on to protect his privacy.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

The wife works in Finance and if she is smart she would sell the house and rent a condo for around 3K a month. Then she wouldn't have to worry about property taxes and she could invest the 1/2 mil from the divorce settlement in something safe.


----------



## Almostrecovered

I would think that BFF has to pay STBXW half the equity in the old and take the hit on the half they are upside down on the new house if sold, but I guess that is what the lawyers do


----------



## happyman64

Hey BFF,

Just enjoy the weekend in Sonoma with your friends.

Try not to think about all this crap you are dealing with until Monday.

I guaranty you it will still be there when you get back.

Have a great time.

HM64


----------



## bff

Clarifications.

5.5 would be total income including spousal support.

85 is a full time job.

The house that's underwater that I referred to is the house the OM and his GF have together.

The only way I can see for her to remain in that house is if she lives an otherwise very frugal life (house poor), spends a bunch of the settlement cash to pay it down to lower payments (no money left to invest for future) or gets mommy to start paying part of the mortgage. Third option is probably what will happen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

so is the new house you bought upsidedown?


----------



## Jellybeans

bff said:


> *Friends house in sonoma for the weekend.* I'm the luckiest guy on the planet!


Sounds like the perfect weekend getaway. You deserve it.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

Almostrecovered said:


> so is the new house you bought upsidedown?


I would think the new house has equity in the form of what they put down plus any discount off the original asking price.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> I would think the new house has equity in the form of what they put down plus any discount off the original asking price.


not always, but at least the real estate market is recovering


----------



## Almostrecovered

saw this pic this morning and reminded me of BFF's supposed best friend


----------



## bff

I think some others have already mentioned it, but when I put the timing together of when the three of us (me, WW, OM) all started to be friends instead of acquaintances and then the information I got from OM GF about when she caught them and how long OM told her it was going on, it's pretty clear to me that WW and OM were together from literally the first day and OM and I started being friends. When I've been saying best friend, I really mean "closest friend". I have other people in my life that I go WAY back with who will always be the most special people in my life, but this guy and I spent almost (clearly not all!) of our free time together on weekends, working on our hobby stuff. There were times we put in super late night, long days getting ready for events, etc. WW would always bring us food (we paid for OM, of course) to keep us going. I think now about how great this was for her - two men working together, happily, and her sleeping with whichever one happened to be in her bed that night... 

Anyway, from a timeline perspective, as others have said, he was NEVER really my friend. He buddied up to me for ACCESS. What a d1ck.

FWIW, we could sell the house we just bought for what we paid for it, minus a few points for realtor fees, etc. So, that would almost be a wash. We put a couple hundred k $$ down, so that would be the "equity" we'd split. The house I'm in would sell for about $250k more than we owe on it, so it'll cost me half of that to own this one myself.


----------



## Complexity

Has she tried contacting you lately or has she gone dark?


----------



## bff

Life is good.


----------



## happyman64

BFF

He was a **** in more ways than one.

Stop thinking about him. He is just a user.

And your STBXW was a bigger user.

I cannot even contemplate her reasoning for the LTA.

Just boggles my mind and I am sure yours.

I hope you are in Sonoma BFF???

Just get away for a few days.

HM64


----------



## bff

We have had very civil communication about changing addresses, paying off any balances and closing joint credit cards to there's less for the attorneys to talk about, discussing which expenses are still "joint" and which are now separate. Been extremely cool and cooperative.

I'd like to believe that once the shock has subsided, she will realize that she doesn't want to be in the marriage, either, and that a quick easy separation of assets will be best for both of us. I know the conspiracy theorists won't accept that explanation, but only time will tell.


----------



## thunderstruck

bff said:


> Anyway, from a timeline perspective, as others have said, he was NEVER really my friend. He buddied up to me for ACCESS. What a dck.
> .


A couple of times, when I had to stomp out a relationship between my W and a too cozy guy friend, she tried - "Why can't you try to be friends with him?" 

Me - "Maybe I could have, before I read his comments about your azz."


----------



## happyman64

bff said:


> We have had very civil communication about changing addresses, paying off any balances and closing joint credit cards to there's less for the attorneys to talk about, discussing which expenses are still "joint" and which are now separate. Been extremely cool and cooperative.
> 
> I'd like to believe that once the shock has subsided, she will realize that she doesn't want to be in the marriage, either, and that a quick easy separation of assets will be best for both of us. I know the conspiracy theorists won't accept that explanation, but only time will tell.


I do not think she will come to this realization soon.

She had the best of both worlds BFF. Him and you.

I just cannot comprehend what he brought to the relationship.

No money. No future. 

Has she even tried to explain any of this craziness to you?


----------



## bff

happyman64 said:


> Has she even tried to explain any of this craziness to you?


The day after the confrontation she wanted to talk and I told her that if she had anything she wanted to say to me in order to help her - to get it off her chest, to start to rebuild her own life, etc. - then I was willing to listen. But I said do NOT say anything for my benefit - you've done enough for me already. No words, not even any actions, will get you a second chance.

Since then, she's made absolutely no attempt to have any more communication about the A itself or her actions. When I told her I was filing and when to expect to get the summons, she simply said that she wishes we could work things out, but she understands my decision.

Like I said, it appears that she's showing signs that she also wants out.


----------



## lordmayhem

happyman64 said:


> I do not think she will come to this realization soon.
> 
> She had the best of both worlds BFF. Him and you.
> 
> *I just cannot comprehend what he brought to the relationship.*
> 
> No money. No future.
> 
> Has she even tried to explain any of this craziness to you?


As with many WWs, she's attracted to his alpha male personality and bad boy qualities. Hot steamy sex and the thrill of sneaking around and getting away with it. In the cheater forum, one WW loved giving OM a BJ and coming home and kissing her BH.

This was a Long Term Affair (LTA), not just some short term affair or an ONS. She's fully and wilfully complicit in the deceit here. I don't understand how someone will make her out to be a victim of OMs manipulation. *NOT for 6 damn years*.


----------



## lordmayhem

Good, you're kicking her off the gravy train and taking her cake from her.


----------



## Mike11

bff said:


> The day after the confrontation she wanted to talk and I told her that if she had anything she wanted to say to me in order to help her - to get it off her chest, to start to rebuild her own life, etc. - then I was willing to listen. But I said do NOT say anything for my benefit - you've done enough for me already. No words, not even any actions, will get you a second chance.
> 
> Since then, she's made absolutely no attempt to have any more communication about the A itself or her actions. When I told her I was filing and when to expect to get the summons, she simply said that she wishes we could work things out, but she understands my decision.
> 
> Like I said, it appears that she's showing signs that she also wants out.


She is showing signs of resolve to your decision, you stood up to her big time with this and she has some self dignity for herself (and for you) not to beg and plead, also you probably came across as very decisive and most likely she understand that there is no point in begging or trying to explain anything as you will not buy it, 

it does not mean that she is not breaking when your are not watching, it would be interesting to hear about her behavior right now from a 3rd party, again it can give you a clue on how this is going to play in your divorce action


----------



## Almostrecovered

part of me is surprised that she hasnt sent angry texts on that you told OM's gf


----------



## dymo

She might not be in contact with OM anymore. For that matter, OM's GF might not yet have summoned up the balls to confront.


----------



## Cubby

In addition to a big drop-off financially, bff's wife is now faced with one boring relationship with the OM. No sneaking around, no naughty sex, no secret glances at each other.....


----------



## theroad

bff said:


> The day after the confrontation she wanted to talk and I told her that if she had anything she wanted to say to me in order to help her - to get it off her chest, to start to rebuild her own life, etc. - then I was willing to listen. But I said do NOT say anything for my benefit - you've done enough for me already. No words, not even any actions, will get you a second chance.
> 
> Since then, she's made absolutely no attempt to have any more communication about the A itself or her actions. When I told her I was filing and when to expect to get the summons, she simply said that she wishes we could work things out, but she understands my decision.
> 
> Like I said, it appears that she's showing signs that she also wants out.


No not that she wants out she realizes the chance getting her BH back are to long against her.

Combined with that she makes $85,000 on her own.

As pointed out CA's laws she'll keep the house things will be tight but she won't go hungry and afford the AC/heat.

She'll keep boning the OM till she can trade up to a new husband/BF that can support her the way she was.


----------



## bff

theroad said:


> No not that she wants out she realizes the chance getting her BH back are to long against her.
> 
> Combined with that she makes $85,000 on her own.
> 
> As pointed out CA's laws she'll keep the house things will be tight but she won't go hungry and afford the AC/heat.
> 
> She'll keep boning the OM till she can trade up to a new husband/BF that can support her the way she was.


This is how I'd place my money if I needed to place a bet on the mid-term outcome. She's a hottie, is in GREAT shape and can be a ton of fun when she feels like it. She'll have no problem luring in another H to provide whatever sort of life it is she wants now. OM is going to be the biggest long term loser in this. My guess is that he'll eventually lose WW, too, and be stuck back in his boring life, struggling to get by. In his business, he lives and dies with referrals. I think when word gets around what a snake he is, those referrals will tail off at least a little... I've probably sent close to a dozen people his way. Some of them and the concentric circles around them will no longer do business with him.


----------



## turnera

You can always put him on cheaterville.com.


----------



## sandc

bff said:


> When I told her I was filing and when to expect to get the summons, *she simply said that she wishes we could work things out, but she understands my decision*.


TRANSLATION: I'm going to miss your money but I guess you don't want to pay for me and my boyfriend any longer.


----------



## betamale

That makes sense, bff. The thrill of being caught is gone. Your STBxW felt atracted to OM when the 3 of you were doing things together, because you didn't know what was going on in front of you. Now OM has less excitement to offer. 

If she was average, she'd be happy to have a husband, a job and a nice home, but since she's hot and fun, she wants more and she'll always want more. HOWEVER, no matter how hot she is, she'll get old and wont be able to turn heads anymore. That's when nature will tell her that the game is over. Just wait.


----------



## Shaggy

Since he lives by referrals seriously consider posting him on cheaterville.com that way it will come up hen someone googles his name.

And anything you post there will be truth so it's not slander!


----------



## happyman64

Shaggy said:


> Since he lives by referrals seriously consider posting him on cheaterville.com that way it will come up hen someone googles his name.
> 
> And anything you post there will be truth so it's not slander!


Honestly both of them belong on cheaterville.

They are quite the pair after 6 years aren't they?

I like the view by the way BFF.


----------



## warlock07

She might be assuming what she did was ok based on your reactions and interactions(and her replies).

A little anger will be great once in a while. Her reaction to getting caught cheating is "Oops, sorry!!" Even then, you did not get the whole truth.


----------



## Chaparral

bff said:


> The day after the confrontation she wanted to talk and I told her that if she had anything she wanted to say to me in order to help her - to get it off her chest, to start to rebuild her own life, etc. - then I was willing to listen. But I said do NOT say anything for my benefit - you've done enough for me already. No words, not even any actions, will get you a second chance.
> 
> Since then, she's made absolutely no attempt to have any more communication about the A itself or her actions. When I told her I was filing and when to expect to get the summons, she simply said that she wishes we could work things out, but she understands my decision.
> 
> Like I said, it appears that she's showing signs that she also wants out.



She is simply looking at it from her point of view. If she found out you had been banging her best girfriend for 6 years would she forgive you? Not many people would. She sees no chance of R and is just saving her breath. MIL could not help her, she just can't see you coming back.

Her A was just fun and games with no consideration for your feelings because you were not going to catch on because you trusted them and believed ridiculus explanations for their behavior. If she saw any hope you would be smothered with regret and love. She knows the bottom line on OM, or she would have already been gone.


----------



## Chaparral

turnera said:


> You can always put him on cheaterville.com.


And when a prospective customer googles his name, thats where he will pop up. Hehe:rofl:


----------



## Shamwow

Wow...

Just got caught up on your thread bff, clearly a bit late to the party. Just wanted to say congrats for handling this sh!tstorm so well...never something you want to go through, but you did a fine job of navigating through. Goes to show, yet again, that the advice given by the people here really is invaluable if you follow it.

As others have said, there's still a long road ahead getting through the divorce and all that goes with it, but where you are now reminds me of where I was at almost a year ago (without the spectacular view of the bay, of course), and I'd like to just say this - you'll be fine. Better, actually.

Good luck and enjoy your new beginning...


----------



## Mike11

Words from the Master himself:lol::smthumbup:


----------



## Shamwow

Careful Mike, don't feed my ego too much, he's already full...


----------



## aug

bff said:


> This is how I'd place my money if I needed to place a bet on the mid-term outcome. She's a hottie, is in GREAT shape and can be a ton of fun when she feels like it. She'll have no problem luring in another H to provide whatever sort of life it is she wants now.



I put her around 40 years old. The hottie expiration date is coming up if she wants to lure another H.

Just curious about her mother. Do you think your wife will be look like her? If so, there's this.


----------



## OldWolf57

Man you are a true gentalman. there is no way I wouldn't have put at least one sleazy sk**k in there doing the conversation, just to let her know how I now see her.

And Dude,,, you got the VIEW !!! Reminds me of places in NC and Tenn.


----------



## Mike11

aug said:


> I put her around 40 years old. The hottie expiration date is coming up if she wants to lure another H.
> 
> Just curious about her mother. Do you think your wife will be look like her? If so, there's this.


I love that clip, it is hilarious:rofl:


----------



## sandc

aug said:


> I put her around 40 years old. The hottie expiration date is coming up if she wants to lure another H.
> 
> Just curious about her mother. Do you think your wife will be look like her? If so, there's this.


That's a classic!


----------



## spudster

My hat's off to you bff. You have been hit with the kamikaze of all betrayals and yet here you are....standing tall.

We all admire you. 

Stupid WW does not realize what she has let go. Stupid, stupid woman.


----------



## Ansley

aug said:


> I put her around 40 years old. The hottie expiration date is coming up if she wants to lure another H.
> 
> Just curious about her mother. Do you think your wife will be look like her? If so, there's this.



ohhh aug...for the women on here that are 37 ...um me... that hurt...:rofl:


----------



## WorkingOnMe

BFF, for the youngest acceptable age of your next woman, divide your age by 2 and add 8. Ya that should piss her off.


----------



## aug

Ansley said:


> ohhh aug...for the women on here that are 37 ...um me... that hurt...:rofl:


Oh no, not you! Your beauty is timeless. Keep up that clean living!


----------



## Ansley

aug said:


> Oh no, not you! Your beauty is timeless. Keep up that clean living!



============================


----------



## the guy

thread jacking!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Ansley

the guy said:


> thread jacking!!!!!!!!!



not me!


----------



## aug

Ansley said:


> are you making fun of me because I am an alcoholic? i should never have mentioned i had a drinking problem on this forum.



What the heck?!? Where did this come from?

/my apologies for the thread jack


----------



## girlfromipanema

Shamwow said:


> Careful Mike, don't feed my ego too much, he's already full...


Sorry for more threadjacking...

Shamwow! Not to feed the monster, but you and bff are two of my favorites. I have a tiny crush on both of you.

There was a thread on TAM asking to help name a puppy. My contribution was "Shamwow". Since no one on the thread seemed too excited I'm guessing they never spent much time in the CWI forum.

Take care ya all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

girl: It's y'all


----------



## MattMatt

Mike11 said:


> I love that clip, it is hilarious:rofl:


Great. Thanks. The older woman? I am probably close to her age. Gosh. I feel old!

Mind you, she is very pretty!


----------



## bff

I guess that I've reached minor celebrity status on TAM when Sham himself comments on the thread ;-). Granted I did PM him after reading through his story...

No major updates. I do want to share how much the "little" things are making a difference for me and my road to recovery. On my day of confrontation (henceforth known as the worst/best day of my life) I bought some pretty low quality sheets and a fleece throw to sleep with. Yesterday, I took the time to visit a friend who sells high quality bedding and down comforters. He spent almost an hour with me picking out sheets, shame, the right comforter and duvet. 

Now this may all seem inconsequential, but it really made me feel great after I went home, assembled it all and stood back and looked at my creation. It was like I reclaimed my bedroom. It also made it feel so much more permanent! I got my first really got sleep last night 

You can't underestimate the power of some of these seemingly small acts of recovery!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

Ansley said:


> are you making fun of me because I am an alcoholic? i should never have mentioned i had a drinking problem on this forum.


DO not worry Ansley. Your secret is safe with all 30,000 of us on TAM.


----------



## MattMatt

bff said:


> I guess that I've reached minor celebrity status on TAM when Sham himself comments on the thread ;-). Granted I did PM him after reading through his story...
> 
> No major updates. I do want to share how much the "little" things are making a difference for me and my road to recovery. On my day of confrontation (henceforth known as the worst/best day of my life) I bought some pretty low quality sheets and a fleece throw to sleep with. Yesterday, I took the time to visit a friend who sells high quality bedding and down comforters. He spent almost an hour with me picking out sheets, shame, the right comforter and duvet.
> 
> Now this may all seem inconsequential, but it really made me feel great after I went home, assembled it all and stood back and looked at my creation. It was like I reclaimed my bedroom. It also made it feel so much more permanent! I got my first really got sleep last night
> 
> You can't underestimate the power of some of these seemingly small acts of recovery!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's often apparently small things like this that are, in truth, quite major things.

Like what Tom Cats do when they spray!

BTW... we have to make sure to comfort and love our little Tom cat after my wife and I make love. He has a habit of attempting to stake his claim to my wife by sneaking back into our bedroom and p***ing on my pillow!


----------



## happyman64

BFF

One small act a day keeps the old STBXW away!

Keep those changes coming everyday. Sooner rather than later you will feel great again about yourself.

HM64


----------



## happyman64

Matt

Just go over to the DAS bed and pee on it.

I am sure he will get the hint.

Bad Kitty........

HM64


----------



## MattMatt

happyman64 said:


> Matt
> 
> Just go over to the DAS bed and pee on it.
> 
> I am sure he will get the hint.
> 
> Bad Kitty........
> 
> HM64


I am just such a softy I didn't even tell him off. I just tickled his head. But his little face! He looked so damned angry with me!:rofl:


----------



## Ansley

happyman64 said:


> DO not worry Ansley. Your secret is safe with all 30,000 of us on TAM.


===i made a stupid joke on a serious thread ==now feel very stupid ===thank you though!


----------



## Ansley

girlfromipanema said:


> Sorry for more threadjacking...
> 
> Shamwow! Not to feed the monster, but you and bff are two of my favorites. I have a tiny crush on both of you.
> 
> There was a thread on TAM asking to help name a puppy. My contribution was "Shamwow". Since no one on the thread seemed too excited I'm guessing they never spent much time in the CWI forum.
> 
> Take care ya all.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



BFF is no longer an appropriate user name...we should find another for him


----------



## sandc

Ansley said:


> BFF is no longer an appropriate user name...we should find another for him


BFF still works. Betrayed, Fierce, Famous


----------



## Ansley

bff said:


> I guess that I've reached minor celebrity status on TAM when Sham himself comments on the thread ;-). Granted I did PM him after reading through his story...
> 
> No major updates. I do want to share how much the "little" things are making a difference for me and my road to recovery. On my day of confrontation (henceforth known as the worst/best day of my life) I bought some pretty low quality sheets and a fleece throw to sleep with. Yesterday, I took the time to visit a friend who sells high quality bedding and down comforters. He spent almost an hour with me picking out sheets, shame, the right comforter and duvet.
> 
> Now this may all seem inconsequential, but it really made me feel great after I went home, assembled it all and stood back and looked at my creation. It was like I reclaimed my bedroom. It also made it feel so much more permanent! I got my first really got sleep last night
> 
> You can't underestimate the power of some of these seemingly small acts of recovery!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



you break my heart...really you do


----------



## OldWolf57

bff, make sure you change your locks. posom may have a key she gave him. and you don't want either snooping.


----------



## sandc

Did BFF start a new thread?


----------



## bff

I have not started a new thread, yet. I guess I should do that. I'll definitely link it here.

Just going about the business of getting on with my life. Great weekend with friends. Got rip roaring drunk (in a good way...) on Saturday night in Glen Ellen at a martini bar/restaurant. Went flying Sunday morning with a buddy. Did some cleaning up around the house on Sunday afternoon and then a b-day party for another buddy. My "new normal" is great. 

I am very anxious to get started with the D proceedings. I spent some more time listing out essentially every single "asset" we own, down the the floor lamp and the coffee table. Since pretty much EVERYTHING is at the new house that my wife is in, I want to make sure that I somehow get compensating at least a little for all the things that I'm going to have to go out and buy for myself.

Am going to get the locks changed at the house I'm staying in this week. That's a really good idea. I know that OM has a key to the house. He was such a "close friend" that he house-sat for us to take care of the plants and cats while we were on vacations.

At work for the second week. I need to stop checking in here so much during the day and refocus on kicking ass at work.


----------



## happyman64

That's it BFF.

Get back to the new normal and focus on work.

I am glad you had a good weekend.

Have your heard from the STBXW or is she Dark?

HM64


----------



## sandc

bff said:


> Went flying Sunday morning with a buddy.


Then we almost shared the same air. Where did you guys go? You weren't in that 182 that tried to eat me up were you?


----------



## MattMatt

Glad things are working well for you, BFF.

Don't want to make you paranoid, but you might like to check your computer for keyloggers and the house for VARs, etc. Just in case.


----------



## bff

sandc said:


> Then we almost shared the same air. Where did you guys go? You weren't in that 182 that tried to eat me up were you?


It was a Marchetti (sp?) and we just hopped from San Rafael to Schellville with a little aerobatics thrown in for good measure. Nothing like going upside down to start off a Sunday morning right. Glad I held on to what was left of the martinis in me, too... 

Good point about checking the house. I'm never paranoid enough, but given the situation and with money on the line, it is worthwhile to dial that up a notch. I have to remember that these are people that I CANNOT TRUST AT ALL.

No contact with STBxW or OM.


----------



## Ansley

I am so glad you are doing good, staying busy and are happy. you deserve it.


----------



## bff

Howdy, folks. I've got a pretty unremarkable update. I'll get around to starting a thread over in the "going through a divorce" section and will link it here, soon. 

But, for the record, I'm doing just fine. The STBxW and I are corresponding almost daily - all business - agreeing to many things around the D so that our attorneys have very little to discuss. She's been incredibly civil and cooperative. I have to imagine that she just wants out of this, too. I can live with that.

The OM has slowly started to crawl out of the darkness and has pinged a couple of our common friends who, of course, immediately just told me. He was texting things like "life is basically over", "so sad", crap like that. Interesting choice of words: "sad". Not, "feel so guilty" or "what have I done" or "really sorry". I think both STBxW and OM both have compartmentalization issues and don't see how what they've done really affects anyone but them.

Anyway, not focusing on that. Just going about my business of closing common accounts, getting utilities at the new house out of my name, establishing my own credit/accounts/etc. Lot's of little things to do. Oddly, I'm finding each one a small victory and a bright spot instead of a trigger to mourn. I continue to realize with more clarity that our marriage was dead for a long time before this D-Day.


----------



## happyman64

Hey BFF

Good update. I am glad you are well.

And even though your marriage might have been done for a while you can still wish your wife had enough integrity to tell you.

And my friend, when their is infidelity in a marriage of course it was done. She did not love or respect you.

I am happy for you.

Go find a good woman that has self esteem and will appreciate a good, hard woorking man.

HM64


----------



## COguy

I'm happy for you bud and you're a million miles away from where many of us were in similar situations.

Your life is just starting! Make the best of it.


----------



## jh52

" I think both STBxW and OM both have compartmentalization issues and don't see how what they've done really affects anyone but them."

BFF -- stay strong you are on rthe right track.

IMO about the comment above -- you were the OM in your stbxw's life for so long, that they both accepted the affair as being normal day to day life and were interrupted when you were home and not traveling.


----------



## Almostrecovered

bff said:


> The OM has slowly started to crawl out of the darkness and has pinged a couple of our common friends who, of course, immediately just told me. He was texting things like "life is basically over", "so sad", crap like that. Interesting choice of words: "sad". Not, "feel so guilty" or "what have I done" or "really sorry". .



Translation

"Pity me! PITY ME!!"


----------



## sandc

BFF, dude, you are an amazing fellow. Can't wait to share that meal with you. Yes folks, I am going to meet this TAM legend one day soon.


----------



## bff

Just unfriended STBxW and OM on facebook. I have to admit, that hurt a little. Perhaps one of my first "Trigger" experiences.

A good friend of mine suggested I do it, as any sort of stalking of them is inconsistent with my stated goal of focusing forward and making them and their actions a thing of the past for me. Too many future trigger opportunities if I keep them on my friends list.


----------



## Almostrecovered

consider blocking them as well, they might show up on other friends' comments and such so that would blot them out from you


----------



## sandc

bff said:


> Just unfriended STBxW and OM on facebook. I have to admit, that hurt a little. Perhaps one of my first "Trigger" experiences.
> 
> A good friend of mine suggested I do it, as any sort of stalking of them is inconsistent with my stated goal of focusing forward and making them and their actions a thing of the past for me. Too many future trigger opportunities if I keep them on my friends list.


I know it doesn't make it feel any better but I bet they felt it too. You're moving forward. Take consolation in that at least.


----------



## cantdecide

bff said:


> Just unfriended STBxW and OM on facebook. I have to admit, that hurt a little. Perhaps one of my first "Trigger" experiences.
> 
> A good friend of mine suggested I do it, as any sort of stalking of them is inconsistent with my stated goal of focusing forward and making them and their actions a thing of the past for me. Too many future trigger opportunities if I keep them on my friends list.


I had a hard time with this as well. My ex was posting things knowing that I would read them. Very hurtful things. I went the full monty though and just deactivated my account. Best thing I ever did. You'll feel better about it as time goes by.


----------



## happyman64

Detach, detach, detach.

She has so you should too......

And your friend is wise.


----------



## Wazza

bff said:


> The OM has slowly started to crawl out of the darkness and has pinged a couple of our common friends who, of course, immediately just told me. He was texting things like "life is basically over", "so sad", crap like that. Interesting choice of words: "sad". Not, "feel so guilty" or "what have I done" or "really sorry". I think both STBxW and OM both have compartmentalization issues and don't see how what they've done really affects anyone but them.


Life is over? Did she dump him or his he mourning the loss of access to your money? What an utter, utter pr1ck he is...but then you already knew that.


----------



## Eco

bff said:


> It was a Marchetti (sp?) and we just hopped from San Rafael to Schellville with a little aerobatics thrown in for good measure. Nothing like going upside down to start off a Sunday morning right. Glad I held on to what was left of the martinis in me, too...


I've been following this thread for a while...I guess we might run in the same circles, or at least the same planes in the same area. An SF-260 c0ckpit seems like a great place to get a bit of rejuvenation going. Good luck with the next steps, stay strong!


----------



## Complexity

Bff you said that you sent a couple of business associates to help the OM get on his feet. I'm sure you don't want to divulge your personal life in business relations, but is there a way you could tell them what a piece of crap he is?

Regarding your ex, for some reason I feel really sorry for the next poor sap that'll get tangled up with her. People who carry out such long term affairs and are to able function like nothing's happening are terrifying to say the least. I wish there was a way people could know what she's capable of, sort of like a credit history.


----------



## mina

Blocking on FB is a great thing, you will truly never, ever see anything they post. OTOH if you don't block them you'll see all of their activity on your mutual friends pages. You don't want that. Block. Nice and quiet. Out of sight, out of mind.


----------



## bff

Thanks for the clarifications on unfriend versus block on FB. Block is what I want!

Regarding the folks I referred to the OM... It's not like they're investing in his business, they just used his "service" one time. And yes, I've told them what a dishonest person he is. A huge part of his clientele is based on referrals and it is a small world. Life *may* be over...


----------



## sandc

bff said:


> Thanks for the clarifications on unfriend versus block on FB. Block is what I want!
> 
> Regarding the folks I referred to the OM... It's not like they're investing in his business, they just used his "service" one time. And yes, I've told them what a dishonest person he is. A huge part of his clientele is based on referrals and it is a small world. Life *may* be over...


Pity...


----------



## MattMatt

Wazza said:


> Life is over? Did she dump him or his he mourning the loss of access to your money? What an utter, utter pr1ck he is...but then you already knew that.


Is it possible to have regular sex with someone's wife, yet have genuine feelings of friendship for him? God help me... but the answer is yes.  Damn. That has triggered me. Just realised I was sat staring at the screen, with my hand over my mouth, the post not sent. I have come out in a cold sweat.

I seriously hope nobody thinks any the less of me for my being able to share that realisation.

Look, bff, they probably both love or like you, but they are too broken to continue in your life.

Could you reconcile with your wife? Yes, probably. But would it be worth the angst, anxiety and stress of never being able to 100 percent trust her again? Almost certainly not.

You have made the right decision. And she knows it. In fact, any love she still feels for you might be why she is being so civil about it.


----------



## bff

This is a safe space, MM. Thanks for sharing and thanks for the insight. I still cannot believe they are high-fiving behind my back right now. I'm SURE they both "feel bad" for me and probably feel like they've done something wrong. I just don't think they're really connecting the two like a normally functioning human being's brain should.

Agree 100% with you're entire post.


----------



## the guy

Complexity said:


> Bff you said that you sent a couple of business associates to help the OM get on his feet. I'm sure you don't want to divulge your personal life in business relations, but is there a way you could tell them what a piece of crap he is?
> 
> Regarding your ex, for some reason I feel really sorry for the next poor sap that'll get tangled up with her. People who carry out such long term affairs and are to able function like nothing's happening are terrifying to say the least. I wish there was a way people could know what she's capable of, sort of like a credit history.



Back in the olden days didn't they have to wear a big letter "A"....they should bring that back!


----------



## MattMatt

bff said:


> This is a safe space, MM. Thanks for sharing and thanks for the insight. I still cannot believe they are high-fiving behind my back right now. I'm SURE they both "feel bad" for me and probably feel like they've done something wrong. I just don't think they're really connecting the two like a normally functioning human being's brain should.
> 
> Agree 100% with you're entire post.


Thank you bff. That means more to me than you could know.

You weren't supposed to be hurt by their affair, as you weren't ever supposed to find out.

Torn Between Two Lovers, again. 

But reality hits and it all goes to hell.


----------



## Wazza

MattMatt said:


> Thank you bff. That means more to me than you could know.
> 
> You weren't supposed to be hurt by their affair, as you weren't ever supposed to find out.
> 
> Torn Between Two Lovers, again.
> 
> But reality hits and it all goes to hell.


But that's the issue. Reality always hits. Even if bff never knew the lie marshalls against intimacy.

Mattmatt you are right, if om was sincere. I have my doubts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bff

MattMatt said:


> You weren't supposed to be hurt by their affair, as you weren't ever supposed to find out.


Well that about sums it up. That, my friend, is one great piece of wisdom that really, really helps me to understand how they could have rationalized this.


----------



## MattMatt

bff said:


> Well that about sums it up. That, my friend, is one great piece of wisdom that really, really helps me to understand how they could have rationalized this.


And how could this work? Because for part of the time they lived in Lalapinknfluffy land, where the sky is a lovely pink colour and the leaves on the trees are made of chocolate.

Oh-oh. I think they thought you knew, but that you didn't want to acknowledge that you knew. The smiles to you might not have been smiles of knowing cuckolders, but smiles of fellow conspirators, as they thought!

They might have either read you wrong or lied to themselves in order to facilitate their affair, which, if they really did believe you knew about it, would not have been an affair in their eyes but a relationship with your -unstated- blessing.

They mistook your absolute trust and faith in your wife as acquiescence regarding their affair.

When it became clear that not only had you not known but that when you revealed yourself to be genuinely heartbroken by it, the rug is pulled out from beneath them and it does indeed all go to hell.


----------



## TBT

MattMatt said:


> And how could this work? Because for part of the time they lived in Lalapinknfluffy land, where the sky is a lovely pink colour and the leaves on the trees are made of chocolate.


Or after so many years they were just cold hearted cheaters.


----------



## Ansley

She is being civil and agreeable because she knows not to screw with you anymore. She knows you mean business. Confronting her, exposing the affair and filing for divorce..... Im am sure for a woman that is used to always getting her way, that way a very rude awakening.


----------



## bff

Last night I saw my STBxW for the first time since walking out. When I say "saw", I just saw her going for a run as I was driving down the street. I beeped and waived, mostly out of habit, and she waived back. It wasn't much of a trigger for me, so I was happy about that.

Today I realized that I can still control the DVRs at the house she's living in through the website. While I'm 99% sure I won't actually do it (why poke the sleeping bear?) I'm extremely tempted to record a marathon of the reality show "Cheaters" and perhaps "Fatal Attraction" every time it comes on... Any suggestions for other shows that might be appropriate to seed on her TV?


----------



## the guy

Theres a movie I can't remeber the name, it with Richard Gear and he ends up killing the AP (some book dealer) and his wife covers for him.

I like the Cheaters idea, that would be classic!


----------



## Ansley

Unfaithful!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sandc

Ansley said:


> Unfaithful!!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You beat me to it! That's a good one. OM get's bludgeoned to death!


----------



## TDSC60

bff said:


> Today I realized that I can still control the DVRs at the house she's living in through the website. While I'm 99% sure I won't actually do it (why poke the sleeping bear?) I'm extremely tempted to record a marathon of the reality show "Cheaters" and perhaps "Fatal Attraction" every time it comes on... Any suggestions for other shows that might be appropriate to seed on her TV?


:lol: :rofl: Love it!!


----------



## lordmayhem

the guy said:


> Theres a movie I can't remeber the name, it with Richard Gear and he ends up killing the AP (some book dealer) and his wife covers for him.


Haven't seen that one, but now I'm going to have to see it. :smthumbup:


----------



## the guy

beware of triggers Lord-


----------



## happyman64

BFF

You crack me up.

I love that idea. I watch cheaters and my loving wife gets absolutely crazy over that show.

Just Do It!

HM64


----------



## the guy

Mrs. the-guy mentioned a series on the OWN (Oprays Winfry network) " Unfaithful Stories"


----------



## the guy

Fill that DVR up bff...... LOL


----------



## Ansley

Unfaithful is on E right now--channel 236 outside Tulsa
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## OldWolf57

Gear did another where he was the Om.The wife got sent to a south american *****house an Gear was beaten.


----------



## TBT

OldWolf57 said:


> Gear did another where he was the Om.The wife got sent to a south american *****house an Gear was beaten.


Didn't see this one,but I saw one with Kevin Costner and Anthony Quinn called Revenge.Was a good movie.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Presumed Innocent


----------



## Ansley

not sure what channel but dont forget about that show 
"Who the BLEEP Did I Marry?"


----------



## Mike11

bff said:


> Last night I saw my STBxW for the first time since walking out. When I say "saw", I just saw her going for a run as I was driving down the street. I beeped and waived, mostly out of habit, and she waived back. It wasn't much of a trigger for me, so I was happy about that.
> 
> Today I realized that I can still control the DVRs at the house she's living in through the website. While I'm 99% sure I won't actually do it (why poke the sleeping bear?) I'm extremely tempted to record a marathon of the reality show "Cheaters" and perhaps "Fatal Attraction" every time it comes on... Any suggestions for other shows that might be appropriate to seed on her TV?


Why would you even wave at her? , she is "persona non grata" for you


----------



## Almostrecovered

he said it was habit, those types of automatic reactions aren't easy to control


----------



## bff

Well, haven't posted for a few days because things have been really good. I'm settling into my new routine. I'm still not sleeping well and while I'm eating good food, I really just don't have much of an appetite. I've lost about 10lbs in the last 2.5 weeks but not from a lot of exercise but rather from not eating as much. Maybe I'm eating the right amount now - who knows...

STBxW (should that be ETBxW as in eventually - doesn't sound like "divorce" and "soon" should be in the same sentence...) and I have been communicating more - all civil. I'm actually going to see her face to face for the first time tomorrow night. I'm going to the other house to pick up some remaining clothing and other stuff that she said I should take. We had good conversation about how we're both dealing with it, but haven't talked about the "it" at all. I don't think she's ready for that just yet.

She's seeing a therapist, too, now. She hasn't shared much with me about that, but just said that in the first meeting the therapist was just "gathering information" about "our communication problems" and about her family history/relationships, etc.

Sigh. I need some sleep!


----------



## MarriedTex

Yeah, "communication problems." 

Like "Oh honey, did I forget to tell you that I've been f***ing your good friend for the past six years." Those "communications problems" are just so pesky, aren't they?


----------



## jh52

BFF -- give it 2 more weeks about the sleep. If not --please see a doctor -- I am not a big med fan -- but maybe for a short time.

As far as stbxw -- she goes to a therapist NOW !!

Maybe reality has hit her -- and she will get the help and do the things she needs.

Take care -- keep us updated how the F2F tomorrow goes.


----------



## bff

MarriedTex said:


> Yeah, "communication problems."
> 
> Like "Oh honey, did I forget to tell you that I've been f***ing your good friend for the past six years." Those "communications problems" are just so pesky, aren't they?


That I can honestly have a good belly-laugh at this tells me I'm doing pretty good right about now...


----------



## MattMatt

Mike11 said:


> Why would you even wave at her? , she is "persona non grata" for you


It was probably heaping hot coals on her head.



> "Oh, great! There's my husband, bff! Oh. He's not my husband, any more. I crushed his heart. Oh, s***! I hope he doesn't see me cry!"


----------



## MattMatt

Just had a random thought. What if her therapy shows her that what she did was totally and utterly wrong and she accepts full blame for everything?

Could you ever consider taking her back?

I do not think I could under your circumstances...


----------



## spudster

No. Sounds like the therapist is already jumping the gun to lay equal blame on bff for not being perceptive enough over the last six years to understand his WW's needs, and thus drove her into his best friend's arms.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jh52

spudster said:


> No. Sounds like the therapist is already jumping the gun to lay equal blame on bff for not being perceptive enough over the last six years to understand his WW's needs, and thus drove her into his best friend's arms.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Spud:

How did you get this from BFF's post.

He said the therapist was gathering information and what he quoted was what his stbxw stated to the therapist.

Just wondering !!:scratchhead:


----------



## WorkingOnMe

jh52 said:


> Spud:
> 
> How did you get this from BFF's post.
> 
> He said the therapist was gathering information and what he quoted was what his stbxw stated to the therapist.
> 
> Just wondering !!:scratchhead:


If the therapist referred to it as a "communication problem" it shows that the therapist is either not experienced in matters of infidelity or is not treating that particular problem.


----------



## spudster

WorkingOnMe said:


> If the therapist referred to it as a "communication problem" it shows that the therapist is either not experienced in matters of infidelity or is not treating that particular problem.


Exacitically.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Malaise

spudster said:


> No. Sounds like the therapist is already jumping the gun to lay equal blame on bff for not being perceptive enough over the last six years to understand his WW's needs, and thus drove her into his best friend's arms.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah...

Will this be a therapist who doesn't want to blame anyone, we're all to blame...everyone gets a trophy for participating!


----------



## MattMatt

WorkingOnMe said:


> If the therapist referred to it as a "communication problem" it shows that the therapist is either not experienced in matters of infidelity or is not treating that particular problem.


Or being sarcastic. Or laying some groundwork? Or that was the WS' version of this conversation:-

"You had an affair for nearly the entire length of your marriage? With your husband's best friend? What in the heck were you thinking? Why did you do it? Did you never, ever communicate your needs to your husband, before you decided to cheat on him?"

See how that so easily translates into: "a communication problem"?


----------



## jh52

I read it as BFF's stbxw words about communication problems and not the therapist.


----------



## happyman64

bff said:


> That I can honestly have a good belly-laugh at this tells me I'm doing pretty good right about now...


I always say humor solves everything.

Just stay healthy and sane. I am sure you are probably a little uneasy about seeing your wife tomorrow night.

Just remain civil. 

And you are going to be fine. Of that I am sure.

Please take care of yourself and I am pleased that your wife is in counselling.

*She needs it!*
:redcard:


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

I read it that she told the therapist about their 'communication' problem and he/she is gathering information so that he/she can place the blame on BFF and his wife.

(But I could be wrong.)


----------



## happyman64

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> I read it that she told the therapist about their 'communication' problem and he/she is gathering information so that he/she can place the blame on BFF and his wife.
> 
> (But I could be wrong.)


You are wrong!

The WW has a problem communicating with the POSOM.

*She did not know how to say No!

She did not know how to say No because I am married!!!!*


----------



## Malaise

happyman64 said:


> You are wrong!
> 
> The WW has a problem communicating with the POSOM.
> 
> *She did not know how to say No!
> 
> She did not know how to say No because I am married!!!!*


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

happyman64 said:


> You are wrong!
> 
> The WW has a problem communicating with the POSOM.
> 
> *She did not know how to say No!
> 
> She did not know how to say No because I am married!!!!*


How was I wrong? 

I never said that this was the case. I've followed BFF's thread from the beginning so I know the score. 

What I said is that this is how she and the therapist will spin it.


----------



## Acabado

Well if a IC, at the first session with a soon to be divorcee, after gathering basic info start talking about "comunication problems" after knowing about her client 6 years deep EA-PA with her husband best friend (wich is half the marriage) well...


----------



## happyman64

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> How was I wrong?
> 
> I never said that this was the case. I've followed BFF's thread from the beginning so I know the score.
> 
> What I said is that this is how she and the therapist will spin it.


Sorry Count! I was just taking liberal journalism to a new level.

Please excuse the liberty I took.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

No worries, Happyman.

Besides, your avatar always makes me smile (almost as much as AR's dancing ninja turtle.)


----------



## bff

MattMatt said:


> Just had a random thought. What if her therapy shows her that what she did was totally and utterly wrong and she accepts full blame for everything?
> 
> Could you ever consider taking her back?


NO F*&KING WAY!

Are we clear on that point?


----------



## jh52

bff said:


> NO F*&KING WAY!
> 
> Are we clear on that point?


Tell us how you really feel !!!:smthumbup:


----------



## Shaggy

How about her communication problem is she can't stop lying.


----------



## justincase

My XW and I had one of those "communication problem" therapists for 11 months until the therapist finally got it. I still don't know what was said, but as soon as the therapist got it, something was said in private between the therapist and the XW and after that, the XW refused to ever go back. Funny how that works.


----------



## bff

I need to detach a little more. A very good friend of mine pointed out that I'm starting to take her problems onto my own shoulders - as if we were still in a relationship. I shouldn't be listening to details from her about what she's talking to her therapist about, how the cats are doing, etc. Although it's easy to type no eff'ing way into a browser, I'm still in a vulnerable place right now. My *real* friend helped me to see that.

I'm taking a friend along to pick up the stuff tomorrow. I'm not going to engage in any sort of discussion about our situation.


----------



## Shaggy

As she begins every sentence ask yourself, this is my problem how??


----------



## happyman64

bff said:


> I need to detach a little more. A very good friend of mine pointed out that I'm starting to take her problems onto my own shoulders - as if we were still in a relationship. I shouldn't be listening to details from her about what she's talking to her therapist about, how the cats are doing, etc. Although it's easy to type no eff'ing way into a browser, I'm still in a vulnerable place right now. My *real* friend helped me to see that.
> 
> I'm taking a friend along to pick up the stuff tomorrow. I'm not going to engage in any sort of discussion about our situation.


I think taking the buddy is a great idea. Any hot femaile coworker that you can bring????

And you are doing great. Keep it up.


----------



## happyman64

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> No worries, Happyman.
> 
> Besides, your avatar always makes me smile (almost as much as AR's dancing ninja turtle.)


I love that ninja turtle too!


----------



## turnera

bff said:


> I need to detach a little more. A very good friend of mine pointed out that I'm starting to take her problems onto my own shoulders - as if we were still in a relationship. I shouldn't be listening to details from her about what she's talking to her therapist about, how the cats are doing, etc. Although it's easy to type no eff'ing way into a browser, I'm still in a vulnerable place right now. My *real* friend helped me to see that.
> 
> I'm taking a friend along to pick up the stuff tomorrow. I'm not going to engage in any sort of discussion about our situation.


 A wise person once said that, once your spouse fires you, you need to start looking at them like the mailman. Would you fix the mailman's car? Loan him/her money? Let him stay at your house?

Then why would you do it for your stbx?


----------



## happyman64

turnera said:


> A wise person once said that, once your spouse fires you, you need to start looking at them like the mailman. Would you fix the mailman's car? Loan him/her money? Let him stay at your house?
> 
> Then why would you do it for your stbx?


:iagree:

Turnera is right!

And BFF your wife created the majority of these problems in her life through he horrible actions.

They are not yours to deal with. You wanna know why?

Because you cannot fix them for her. Only she can.


----------



## surfryhder

DUDE, YOUR MY HERO...I do not think I could have played any that cool....Things are going to be great for you...

CHEERS!!!!


----------



## Zak68

MattMatt said:


> Just had a random thought. What if her therapy shows her that what she did was totally and utterly wrong and she accepts full blame for everything?
> 
> Could you ever consider taking her back?


I'm going through this right now. Wife (at the time alcoholic) had 6 mo affair with BF. Long story short, I found out, we tried to work it out, he drinking continued, I told her to leave, she tried to commit suicide the next day. Been sober for almost 3 years now. 

After she got out of rehab we were separated for about 6 mo. I tried to figure out if I loved her. Decided I still did but I didn't trust her. She asked how she could gain that trust back, said I really don't know. We'll see in time.

To this day I still have flashbacks, mental movies, you name it. I love her but I am not "in love" with her. I often wonder if I am just wasting my time in this relationship. I can't ever trust her again after what she did and can I have a marriage without that level of trust? That is the hard question.

She sort of accepts blame and I think this is my hang up. She feels is was part of her addiction. I told her that's c r a p. She was sober every time she screwd him by her own admission. To me that is a choice, not a consequence of her addiction to alcohol. I think this is my big hang up in healing. Yet, even if she were to admit she was wrong about the addiction causing bad choices I wouldn't feel better because it meant she willingly betrayed our vows.

Not easy to heal. I heard it will take time if you try to work it out. Some get over it, some don't. I just hope one day I can get over it, either by leaving or forgiving. To be honest I can't forgive, that means it was ok for her to screw him and that I just can't do.


----------



## bff

Zak, that's a tough situation. And the alcoholism adds a variable that's probably almost impossible to understand. On one hand, it does offer a "convenient" excuse to lay blame on for selfish choices. On the other hand, it really is a disease and I have to imagine (I'm NOT a doctor!!!!) that even in the sober moments between drinking binges, judgment is impaired or at least clouded to some degree. 

That being said, it sounds like you're thinking about it the right way. How do YOU really feel about her? That's how I have looked at it in my own case. Even if she has a breakthrough and realizes what a horrible thing she's done TO ME, I no longer even like the person she has become.

About 100 posts back, someone asked when the last time was that I felt a "true heartfelt connection" to my wife. The honest answer is, I can't even remember...

So, while I appreciate the kudos for being so strong in all of this, I think many of you still don't understand that my relationship had been declining for so long that I didn't have a big fall from it ending, I merely stepped off of it directly onto solid ground, it was at that low of a point already.

Zak - best of luck to you in whatever choice you make. Make sure you that you give your OWN wants and needs enough weight in the decision. You sound like a good person who might be too willing to take on the problems of others onto your own shoulders. You only go through life once, so make sure you maximize whatever it is that you want out of it.

BFF


----------



## Acabado

Recovering alcoholic here. And a BS.


> She feels is was part of her addiction. I told her that's c r a p. She was sober every time she screwd him by her own admission. To me that is a choice, not a consequence of her addiction to alcohol.


Alcoholics are not always drunk. Alcolholism is a way to be, to think, to process, to behave, to manage emotions... If the problem was just about to stop drinking there will be very few alcoholics out there. People who just stop drinking are called dry drunks with reason, the still have stinkin thinkin (google it). I'm the other hand if she's really recovering she's owning her addiction and all with comes along. I think that's what she's telling you. She's not shifting the blame.
They say with alcoholics is not a matter of asking whether they might be also cheating but when. Almost a sure thing. Likely the set of reasons she become an alcoholic are the same driven forces behind the cheating.


----------



## Zak68

She descibed it once to me as her afternoon fix. She was too proud to drink during work but the excitement of the affair was the rush she needed when she couldn't drink to kill her pain.

I get that a bit but I just don't accept it.

BFF you are so right. I said in another thread the woman I am with now is a cheap copy of the woman I married. She's flawed and liable to break down again in my mind. The woman I married died the day I found out about the affair.

I think we all have to look at our WS after d-day and see if that person is someone we can still love. The old person we loved is gone, this new person is like a brand new marriage. 

Would any of us get into a relationship with a new person if we found out they cheated on a previous spouse? I don't think so. If we did we'd always wonder when the hammer was going to fall on this relationship.


----------



## warlock07

Zak68 said:


> She descibed it once to me as her afternoon fix. She was too proud to drink during work but the excitement of the affair was the rush she needed when she couldn't drink to kill her pain.
> 
> I get that a bit but I just don't accept it.
> 
> BFF you are so right. I said in another thread the woman I am with now is a cheap copy of the woman I married. She's flawed and liable to break down again in my mind. The woman I married died the day I found out about the affair.
> 
> I think we all have to look at our WS after d-day and see if that person is someone we can still love. The old person we loved is gone, this new person is like a brand new marriage.
> 
> Would any of us get into a relationship with a new person if we found out they cheated on a previous spouse? I don't think so. If we did we'd always wonder when the hammer was going to fall on this relationship.



Are you with her because you are scared that she might attempt suicide again?


----------



## Zak68

Nope. The biggest part of my healing came when I realized I can't fix her. Tried for 5 years to help her with drinking. Stopped her twice from killing herself (long stories, psycologist said it was a cry for help. No sh1t, lol) and came home to find her passed out after 2 bottles of sleeping pills and a 5th of vodka. 

She is responsible for her own life and I know I can't stop her.

I was your typical enabler. I don't do that now. She drinks, she goes. I have no tolerance for that. As long as she is sober I will try to heal myself and we can work on our marriage.


----------



## warlock07

Zak68 said:


> Nope. The biggest part of my healing came when I realized I can't fix her. Tried for 5 years to help her with drinking. Stopped her twice from killing herself (long stories, psycologist said it was a cry for help. No sh1t, lol) and came home to find her passed out after 2 bottles of sleeping pills and a 5th of vodka.
> 
> She is responsible for her own life and I know I can't stop her.
> 
> I was your typical enabler. I don't do that now. She drinks, she goes. I have no tolerance for that. As long as she is sober I will try to heal myself and we can work on our marriage.



Are you happy now? Do you think you will ever be? I remember your older thread. I was heart breaking to read again.

Sorry for the thread jack bff.


----------



## happyman64

Zak,



> BFF you are so right. I said in another thread the woman I am with now is a cheap copy of the woman I married. She's flawed and liable to break down again in my mind. The woman I married died the day I found out about the affair.


You are so right. But I think a little differently than some people Zak. I would not tolerate the cheap copy. 

If I chose to stay with my wife not only would I want her to be the person she was when I married her, I would want her to be better.

I would not accept her cheating ever again.
I would not accept her drinking ever again.
I would not tolerate her lies.
I would not tolerate her excuses.
I would encourage/push her to find out what really made her so unhappy to make those terrible choices.
I would encourage her to be happy with herself and not to settle until she was truly happy. Even if that meant she would not stay with me.

Because as a man, I would not respect myself loving a woman that did not love and respect herself. Do not accept the cheap copy. You deserve better. You deserve to be truly happy in this life.

And who knows, you just may find that happiness together.....

HM64


----------



## cpacan

happyman64 said:


> Zak,
> 
> 
> 
> You are so right. But I think a little differently than some people Zak. I would not tolerate the cheap copy.
> 
> If I chose to stay with my wife not only would I want her to be the person she was when I married her, I would want her to be better.
> 
> I would not accept her cheating ever again.
> I would not accept her drinking ever again.
> I would not tolerate her lies.
> I would not tolerate her excuses.
> I would encourage/push her to find out what really made her so unhappy to make those terrible choices.
> I would encourage her to be happy with herself and not to settle until she was truly happy. Even if that meant she would not stay with me.
> 
> Because as a man, I would not respect myself loving a woman that did not love and respect herself. Do not accept the cheap copy. You deserve better. You deserve to be truly happy in this life.
> 
> And who knows, you just may find that happiness together.....
> 
> HM64


Thank you HM, I like this, as always a pleasure to read your posts, though this would probably not help OP...


----------



## bff

If by the OP you mean me, no worries. It's about time that I stop focusing only on my own thread and start trying to help others now that I'm in a much better place. Time to pay it forward. You all have helped me so much! So, small thread hijacks are totally fine.


----------



## happyman64

Hey BFF

How was the face2fa e with your wife?

Did everything go ok?

HM64


----------



## bff

Reschedule to this afternoon. Taking a friend. Not anticipating any sort of issues. Will report back anyway.

BTW - for those who remember all the details from earlier in the thread, she went ahead and got the hardwood floors installed in "her new house". So I'll get to see those today. ;-)


----------



## happyman64

bff said:


> Reschedule to this afternoon. Taking a friend. Not anticipating any sort of issues. Will report back anyway.
> 
> BTW - for those who remember all the details from earlier in the thread, she went ahead and got the hardwood floors installed in "her new house". So I'll get to see those today. ;-)


I guess she is trying to "cheer" herself up.

Just have a good day and I respect the way you are handling this situation.

Because if it was me there would be blood on those hardwood floors. And it would not be mine. You are a really good guy.

And your STBXW is a real sad case.


----------



## the guy

bff said:


> Reschedule to this afternoon. Taking a friend. Not anticipating any sort of issues. Will report back anyway.
> 
> BTW - for those who remember all the details from earlier in the thread, she went ahead and got the hardwood floors installed in "her new house". So I'll get to see those today. ;-)


It might be a good time to put some work boots on and walk thru the mud on your way over to check out the new flooring...LOL


----------



## bff

Seeing so many small things in communications that reinforce my D decision and continue to show the lack of guilt and remorse. She offered to give me a couple pieces of furniture. And she didn't say "I want you to have these because I know you don't have anything right now and have a stack of cardboard boxes in front of your couch" but rather made it a point to say, "I think these end tables are too modern, so why don't you take them." In other words, "this is a good opportunity for me to upgrade my stuff". Can't believe that she still seems completely unphased by the decrease in standard of living she's going to be facing.

Also of note - when I threw out a figure for what spousal support would be, I got it all wrong. It's not 40% of my salary minus her total income. It's 40% of my salary minus HALF of her income. So, I'm going to be paying out a pretty penny for several years... Still far from a disaster for me, but just another nice little kick in the nuts. But hey, anyone touching my nuts (even with a kick) is better than the complete lack of touching I got in recent years...


----------



## Zak68

Just tell her, "Yeah. I'm upgrading stuff too. Did I mention my new GF?"


----------



## lordmayhem

bff said:


> Can't believe that she still seems completely unphased by the decrease in standard of living she's going to be facing.


You know why, because she's still deep in the fog. When reality hits, its going to hit her hard.


----------



## bff

Zak68 said:


> Just tell her, "Yeah. I'm upgrading stuff too. Did I mention my new GF?"


Glad you brought that up... Have a first date with a totally smokin' hot, very tall russian born woman (LOVE the accent!!) in about a week. Intellectual and confident without being ****y. Very witty. Can't wait... It's good to be back out there.


----------



## happyman64

bff said:


> Seeing so many small things in communications that reinforce my D decision and continue to show the lack of guilt and remorse. She offered to give me a couple pieces of furniture. And she didn't say "I want you to have these because I know you don't have anything right now and have a stack of cardboard boxes in front of your couch" but rather made it a point to say, "I think these end tables are too modern, so why don't you take them." In other words, "this is a good opportunity for me to upgrade my stuff". Can't believe that she still seems completely unphased by the decrease in standard of living she's going to be facing.
> 
> Also of note - when I threw out a figure for what spousal support would be, I got it all wrong. It's not 40% of my salary minus her total income. It's 40% of my salary minus HALF of her income. So, I'm going to be paying out a pretty penny for several years... Still far from a disaster for me, but just another nice little kick in the nuts. But hey, anyone touching my nuts (even with a kick) is better than the complete lack of touching I got in recent years...


And you know what. She is going to realize some day that money does not buy you happiness or love.

But until then she will not say I'm sorry and really mean it BFF.

That is how sick she really is......


----------



## Zak68

Excellent point HM64. A huge reason I decided to take my wife back was something she said after rehab. She said it was up to me, she had her own life to get back in order. She knows she completely f'd up and would respect my decision if I chose to leave. She knew she blew it and would always love me but respected if she pushed me too far.

That showed me she had grown and was worth a shot.

One thing I learned after her drinking is I/we can't change people or make them see what is right. They have to open their own eyes.

One day she will open her eyes BFF and regret choices in her life. By that point you will be healthier and happier.


----------



## Jonesey

BFF
your one cool dude if you for some reason happen to be in Sweden.Look me up,and il take you out for some CRAZY knight out.. I mean the way you have handle this.. Purely AMAZING.


----------



## warlock07

bff said:


> Seeing so many small things in communications that reinforce my D decision and continue to show the lack of guilt and remorse. She offered to give me a couple pieces of furniture. And she didn't say "I want you to have these because I know you don't have anything right now and have a stack of cardboard boxes in front of your couch" but rather made it a point to say, "I think these end tables are too modern, so why don't you take them." In other words, "this is a good opportunity for me to upgrade my stuff". Can't believe that she still seems completely unphased by the decrease in standard of living she's going to be facing.
> 
> Also of note - when I threw out a figure for what spousal support would be, I got it all wrong. It's not 40% of my salary minus her total income. It's 40% of my salary minus HALF of her income. So, I'm going to be paying out a pretty penny for several years... Still far from a disaster for me, but just another nice little kick in the nuts. But hey, anyone touching my nuts (even with a kick) is better than the complete lack of touching I got in recent years...


She is shamelessly asking for spousal supprt? After throwing the marriage down the gutter?


----------



## warlock07

bff said:


> Glad you brought that up... Have a first date with a totally smokin' hot, very tall russian born woman (LOVE the accent!!) in about a week. Intellectual and confident without being ****y. Very witty. Can't wait... It's good to be back out there.


Umm.. how old was she when she moved to US?


----------



## Jonesey

BFF
stay away from Russian,or eastern Europe women.
The have a warped way of thinking..Not even we Europeans 
are willing to date them for long..Unless the are born in the country you are born in. And she is to.


----------



## happyman64

bff said:


> Glad you brought that up... Have a first date with a totally smokin' hot, very tall russian born woman (LOVE the accent!!) in about a week. Intellectual and confident without being ****y. Very witty. Can't wait... It's good to be back out there.


That is good news. Have a good time Comrade BFF.


----------



## bff

Well, she has Swedish heritage... does that make her worse or better?  I've known her for a while as a casual acquaintance. So I know she's stable. We talked a lot about how the culture in Russia places so much more in the way of expectations of marriage at a young age on women there. She moved here when she was about 24 - 12 years ago. C'mon, gang! It's ONE date! I'm just trying to get back out there, not already screening for the next Mrs. BFF!

Warlock - in California, I have absolutely no choice but to give her spousal support. If I don't just agree to it, then her attorney will file a motion to the court and a judge will simply use the formula I stated above. That's just more in lawyer fees. I'm pretty sure that even if she said "I want NOTHING from you, that's how sorry I am" that the court wouldn't allow such an inequitable distribution of assets. In Cali, it has to be viewed as equitable.


----------



## Jonesey

bff said:


> *Well, she has Swedish heritage... * Then your safedoes that make her worse or better?  I've known her for a while as a casual acquaintance. So I know she's stable. We talked a lot about how the culture in Russia places so much more in the way of expectations of marriage at a young age on women there. She moved here when she was about 24 - 12 years ago. C'mon, gang! It's ONE date!If she as hot as you describe.One date? really?  I'm just trying to get back out there, not already screening for the next Mrs. BFF!
> 
> Warlock - in California, I have absolutely no choice but to give her spousal support. If I don't just agree to it, then her attorney will file a motion to the court and a judge will simply use the formula I stated above. That's just more in lawyer fees. I'm pretty sure that even if she said "I want NOTHING from you, that's how sorry I am" that the court wouldn't allow such an inequitable distribution of assets. In Cali, it has to be viewed as equitable.


----------



## happyman64

bff said:


> Well, she has Swedish heritage... does that make her worse or better?  I've known her for a while as a casual acquaintance. So I know she's stable. We talked a lot about how the culture in Russia places so much more in the way of expectations of marriage at a young age on women there. She moved here when she was about 24 - 12 years ago. C'mon, gang! It's ONE date! I'm just trying to get back out there, not already screening for the next Mrs. BFF!
> 
> Warlock - in California, I have absolutely no choice but to give her spousal support. If I don't just agree to it, then her attorney will file a motion to the court and a judge will simply use the formula I stated above. That's just more in lawyer fees. I'm pretty sure that even if she said "I want NOTHING from you, that's how sorry I am" that the court wouldn't allow such an inequitable distribution of assets. *In Cali, it has to be viewed as equitable.*


Hint - Move out of California.......


----------



## bff

Nooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! For all of its faults, Cali is still my HOME now.


----------



## lordmayhem

bff said:


> Nooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! For all of its faults, Cali is still my HOME now.


My condolences for living in a cheater friendly state.


----------



## bff

Seeing my STBxWon Friday was such a "non event" that I honestly just forgot to post an update. I took a friend with me and we just made a couple back-and-forth trips for me to collect some more of my things. Seeing her wasn't a trigger for either anger or sadness. It was almost clinical. I'm feeling stronger every day!

Also had to return a key to the OM for the space we rented together. I had half a dozen very passive-aggressive messages thought up to send him when I told him where I left the key, but I opted to take the high road and just say "Here's where the key is". He just replied, "Ok, thanks."

In other news, I had the great pleasure of actually meeting up with SandC for some sushi last night! I must say, it was GREAT to actually get to shake hands and thank in person just one of the many on this forum who helped me beyond measure through one of the most difficult things I've had to face. I love you guys and gals!

He also gave me hope that great relationships ARE possible, but that they don't come easy. You've got work for them. A great lesson to learn as I move forward...

BFF


----------



## Almostrecovered

sushi, eh?

code for something nefarious?


----------



## happyman64

Great update BFF and I am glad that you are moving on and feeling stronger.

Maybe SandC will take you flying????

Just no aerobatics after the sushi!!!


----------



## sandc

BFF it was an absolute pleasure and honor to meet you. Folks I can tell you BFF is the real deal. You think his wife is crazy for doing what she did? Have dinner with him some time and his wife will beyond your comprehension. BFF is smart, does all kinds of alpha-male stuff in his off time, he's well-off, smart, and good looking. (damn you.)  My wife thinks BFF's wife was an absolute fool to mess that up. TAM ladies, you would absolutely agree. (damn you again.) 


Looking forward to dinner #2 when the D becomes final. And yes, that airplane ride is available any time.


----------



## MattMatt

Zak68 said:


> I'm going through this right now. Wife (at the time alcoholic) had 6 mo affair with BF. Long story short, I found out, we tried to work it out, he drinking continued, I told her to leave, she tried to commit suicide the next day. Been sober for almost 3 years now.
> 
> After she got out of rehab we were separated for about 6 mo. I tried to figure out if I loved her. Decided I still did but I didn't trust her. She asked how she could gain that trust back, said I really don't know. We'll see in time.
> 
> To this day I still have flashbacks, mental movies, you name it. I love her but I am not "in love" with her. I often wonder if I am just wasting my time in this relationship. I can't ever trust her again after what she did and can I have a marriage without that level of trust? That is the hard question.
> 
> She sort of accepts blame and I think this is my hang up. She feels is was part of her addiction. I told her that's c r a p. She was sober every time she screwd him by her own admission. To me that is a choice, not a consequence of her addiction to alcohol. I think this is my big hang up in healing. Yet, even if she were to admit she was wrong about the addiction causing bad choices I wouldn't feel better because it meant she willingly betrayed our vows.
> 
> Not easy to heal. I heard it will take time if you try to work it out. Some get over it, some don't. I just hope one day I can get over it, either by leaving or forgiving. To be honest I can't forgive, that means it was ok for her to screw him and that I just can't do.


No alcoholic is ever really sober. I had a cousin who was a functioning alcoholic. He was good at his job but was not sober for 20 years.


----------



## bff

While my freshly bruised and betrayed ego certainly appreciates all the compliments and kind words, I can assure you I was far from the perfect husband. I complain about the lack of appreciation and affection from her, I'm sure she has a list of things that she needed that I didn't provide. In any event, I got some very meaningful feedback from SandC during the dinner and in some thoughts he shared later. It's good to interact with not just those who have known me for a long time but with those I've just met, as they may hear something different in my words or see something different in my face or eyes.

BTW, STBxW just let me know that she got a new companion... A dog!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattMatt

bff said:


> While my freshly bruised and betrayed ego certainly appreciates all the compliments and kind words, I can assure you I was far from the perfect husband. I complain about the lack of appreciation and affection from her, I'm sure she has a list of things that she needed that I didn't provide. In any event, I got some very meaningful feedback from SandC during the dinner and in some thoughts he shared later. It's good to interact with not just those who have known me for a long time but with those I've just met, as they may hear something different in my words or see something different in my face or eyes.
> 
> BTW, STBxW just let me know that she got a new companion... A dog!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why a dog? Because OMs GF will not let him move in? Oops! Have the wheels on her bus started to wobble already?


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

Poor dog.


Edit: In a year he'll find out that she's been two-timing him with the Rottweiler down the street. (Which is equivalent to the time that she cheated on BFF in dog years.)


----------



## warlock07




----------



## happyman64

bff said:


> While my freshly bruised and betrayed ego certainly appreciates all the compliments and kind words, I can assure you I was far from the perfect husband. I complain about the lack of appreciation and affection from her, I'm sure she has a list of things that she needed that I didn't provide. In any event, I got some very meaningful feedback from SandC during the dinner and in some thoughts he shared later. It's good to interact with not just those who have known me for a long time but with those I've just met, as they may hear something different in my words or see something different in my face or eyes.
> 
> BTW, STBxW just let me know that she got a new companion... A dog!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


BFF

No one is perfect. Not opne of us. All your wife had to do was tell you to your face she did not want to be married to you.

Or she could have walked out the door.

The easiest thing to be in a marriage is honest with each other. On TAM we so rarely see it. 

Glad the dinner was great. And about time your wife did something right. She only replaced you with a dog. I would take that any day over a POSOM!!!

Peace.

HM64


----------



## Wazza

happyman64 said:


> The easiest thing to be in a marriage is honest with each other.
> HM64


Actually I think it's the hardest thing. Fundamentally important but SO hard sometimes.

Let's face it, we struggle to be honest with ourselves.


----------



## here2learn

BFF, I am new to this forum and this thread captivated me. Bravo for handling this difficult situation so well. Keep your head up and enjoy what the next phase of your life has in store for you.


----------



## Zak68

Wazza said:


> Actually I think it's the hardest thing. Fundamentally important but SO hard sometimes.
> 
> Let's face it, we struggle to be honest with ourselves.


Amen to that. I spent too many years lying to myself. I can look back now and see all the crap I put myself through before the EA. I wish I could go back in time and just slap myself across the face and say "WAKE UP!".

I was talking with my brother the other day about all of this. He said it wasn't his place to tell me how bad it was. I told him he was wrong. If we can't be honest with our family we are only adding to the pain they are going through. 

I think most of us come out of all this pain with a better view on life. We stop pretending life is beautiful and we see all the ugliness around us. But, it also allow us to see what is truly beautiful and appreciate it all the more. 

The problem is, we have to get through our pain before we can appreciate life again. 

Glad to hear life is good for you BFF. I hope it stays that way.


----------



## dymo

Have you heard from OMW since you exposed? Curious as to whether she kicked him to the curb.


----------



## TroubledSexLife

Why the hell is she still asking for alimony? She cheated and makes a pretty good salary? Any chance she will waive alimony?


----------



## Almostrecovered

CA law


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

TroubledSexLife said:


> Any chance she will waive alimony?


- House she can't really afford

- Just installed new hardwood floors

- Alimony from BFF

PRICELESS


----------



## bff

Haven't heard from OMGF (not married - just living together and own house together for like 10 years) and don't expect to. I could hear in her voice that she had no intention of kicking him to the curb - probably can't afford to, which is sad. Hate to see someone continue to be disrespected based on financial reasons, but I guess I understand. She has a kid still living in that house, so it isn't so simple to make the decision to leave.

No chance of her waiving alimony given that she just asked for it. I don't see things going that direction. I'm resigned to that - as AR said - CA law...


----------



## missmolly

bff said:


> Haven't heard from OMGF (not married - just living together and own house together for like 10 years) and don't expect to. I could hear in her voice that she had no intention of kicking him to the curb - probably can't afford to, which is sad. Hate to see someone continue to be disrespected based on financial reasons, but I guess I understand. She has a kid still living in that house, so it isn't so simple to make the decision to leave.
> 
> No chance of her waiving alimony given that she just asked for it. I don't see things going that direction. I'm resigned to that - as AR said - CA law...


That law is so wrong - it sucks


----------



## GotMeWonderingNow

the guy said:


> Theres a movie I can't remeber the name, it with Richard Gear and he ends up killing the AP (some book dealer) and his wife covers for him.


I can't remember the name either, but I did watch this from my hotel room when I was on a month long business trip with my wife home alone. This was before the situation in my life that brought me to TAM though.

EDIT: BTW - I just finished reading all 77 pages of this thread over two days. I'm lost for words to be honest. BFF, I think you have handled this whole thing amazingly well. This thread is really an eye opener for sure.


----------



## sandc

GotMeWonderingNow said:


> I can't remember the name either, but I did watch this from my hotel room when I was on a month long business trip with my wife home alone. This was before the situation in my life that brought me to TAM though.
> 
> EDIT: BTW - I just finished reading all 77 pages of this thread over two days. I'm lost for words to be honest. BFF, I think you have handled this whole thing amazingly well. This thread is really an eye opener for sure.


The movie was "Unfaithful."


----------



## theroad

bff said:


> NO F*&KING WAY!
> 
> Are we clear on that point?


I'm seeing the comunication problem. You need to stop Beating around the Bush.


----------



## theroad

Zak68 said:


> I'm going through this right now. Wife (at the time alcoholic) had 6 mo affair with BF. Long story short, I found out, we tried to work it out, he drinking continued, I told her to leave, she tried to commit suicide the next day. Been sober for almost 3 years now.
> 
> After she got out of rehab we were separated for about 6 mo. I tried to figure out if I loved her. Decided I still did but I didn't trust her. She asked how she could gain that trust back, said I really don't know. We'll see in time.
> 
> To this day I still have flashbacks, mental movies, you name it. I love her but I am not "in love" with her. I often wonder if I am just wasting my time in this relationship. I can't ever trust her again after what she did and can I have a marriage without that level of trust? That is the hard question.
> 
> She sort of accepts blame and I think this is my hang up. She feels is was part of her addiction. I told her that's c r a p. She was sober every time she screwd him by her own admission. To me that is a choice, not a consequence of her addiction to alcohol. I think this is my big hang up in healing. Yet, even if she were to admit she was wrong about the addiction causing bad choices I wouldn't feel better because it meant she willingly betrayed our vows.
> 
> Not easy to heal. I heard it will take time if you try to work it out. Some get over it, some don't. I just hope one day I can get over it, either by leaving or forgiving. To be honest I can't forgive, that means it was ok for her to screw him and that I just can't do.


You need to get the book Surviving An Affair by Dr Harley. Trust will never the same but it can restored 99%, but never the blind trust.

Get that book there will be many ways to work on making your marraige better post dday then it was before.

Better then being stuck in no mans land.


----------



## sandc

He is divorcing his wife. She's earned it.


----------



## humanbecoming

and creating another TAM epic, a`la bandit.45 and Shamwow :thumbup:


----------



## Rosemary's Granddaughter

bff said:


> Haven't heard from OMGF (not married - just living together and own house together for like 10 years) and don't expect to. I could hear in her voice that she had no intention of kicking him to the curb - probably can't afford to, which is sad. Hate to see someone continue to be disrespected based on financial reasons, but I guess I understand. She has a kid still living in that house, so it isn't so simple to make the decision to leave.
> 
> No chance of her waiving alimony given that she just asked for it. I don't see things going that direction. I'm resigned to that - as AR said - CA law...


Hello. I read this thread in one sitting. *whew*

How is IC going for you, and what happened with the adoption?

Thanks!


----------



## TroubledSexLife

I was hoping she would have some sort of heart and not ask for alimony. I believe they can waive it if they want but I guess she is choosing not to waive it. How freaking cruel of her. Is there any way you can reason with her? Hell, even beg her if you need to. 

So this has been going on for 6 years? When did these two betrayers get to meet up for sex? When you were out on business trips? In one of your older posts, you asked her if they had sex more than 20 times and she said "no". Do you think she was lying? I just hate to imagine her having sex with this guy on a weekly basis or something. I don't know why but when it comes to affair, I care about the frequency of sex.

She is getting to keep the house but at least you will get equity. Did she at least help pay the down payment or mortgages on these houses you guys bought together? 

Finally, during this whole affair ordeal, how often did you guys have sex? Did it start to decrease when the OM appeared in the picture?


----------



## sandc

They had two houses so neither BFF nor STBXW will be homeless. Don't worry about BFF, he's coming out with the long end of the stick.


----------



## TroubledSexLife

Yea but it is so unfair that she gets to make money off of cheating on bff. Plus, they don't even have kids together so it isn't like all that money is going to help his future children.


----------



## TheProf

bff said:


> No chance of her waiving alimony given that she just asked for it. I don't see things going that direction. I'm resigned to that - as AR said - CA law...


Like they say, "its the F-ing you get for the F-ing you got"
As bad as alimony is to have to pay, its tax deductible and a damn sight cheaper than keeping her around.


----------



## sandc

TheProf said:


> Like they say, "its the F-ing you get for the F-ing you got"
> As bad as alimony is to have to pay, its tax deductible and a damn sight cheaper than keeping her around.


And self-respect is priceless.


----------



## fishfast41

bff..High Fives to you, sir! Let me add my compliments to the general kudos. I spent a lot of time reading this thread yesterday and today,and you have dealt with this sordid mess as a real man should. Hang in there, and my prayers are with ya. WOW!


----------



## bff

Thanks, newcomers! I really appreciate the support. 

To answer some of the questions, sex absolutely had decreased over the last few years for us. I thought that it really had to do with her having emotional issues with the us not being able to have a kid... Clearly she didn't hvr issues with having sex, just with me! Do I believe it was less than 20? Is that a serious question? . No, I don't believe it was less than 20. I'd say if was roughly equal to the number of nights that I was out of town over the last 6 years which is probably several hundred.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TroubledSexLife

Ouch. I don't know why but I had always focused on the number of times the wayward had sex. Maybe I care too much about that aspect...

I wonder though bff, why don't you just sit down with her one day and just hear her side out. There will be a lot of BS but just ask her for the whole truth. I think it could help you heal faster because not knowing would kill me. A 6 year affair...ouch. Several hundred times would be a killer! This is worse that somedaydig's wife's 5 year affair. 

Best case out of this little talk would be getting her to agree to waive alimony or not rip you off in the divorce settlement.

Do you think you will talk to her or is this an absurd suggestion? How long till your divorce is finalized?


----------



## Wazza

TroubledSexLife said:


> Ouch. I don't know why but I had always focused on the number of times the wayward had sex. Maybe I care too much about that aspect...
> 
> I wonder though bff, why don't you just sit down with her one day and just hear her side out. There will be a lot of BS but just ask her for the whole truth. I think it could help you heal faster because not knowing would kill me. A 6 year affair...ouch. Several hundred times would be a killer! This is worse that somedaydig's wife's 5 year affair.
> 
> Best case out of this little talk would be getting her to agree to waive alimony or not rip you off in the divorce settlement.
> 
> Do you think you will talk to her or is this an absurd suggestion? How long till your divorce is finalized?


What reason has she got to tell the truth? Not consistent with her modus operandi to do so. 

BFF knows enough to be settled on his path. Gotta let go of rehashing the past and move on if you want to heal.


----------



## MattMatt

bff said:


> Thanks, newcomers! I really appreciate the support.
> 
> To answer some of the questions, sex absolutely had decreased over the last few years for us. I thought that it really had to do with her having emotional issues with the us not being able to have a kid... Clearly she didn't hvr issues with having sex, just with me! Do I believe it was less than 20? Is that a serious question? . No, I don't believe it was less than 20. I'd say if was roughly equal to the number of nights that I was out of town over the last 6 years which is probably several hundred.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She probably rounded the number down. Then, seeing it was still at 400 times, decided to discount a number of them. Not really sex, using the Clinton Agenda Dictum (or CAD ) wasn't in the marital bed, so doesn't count, only done standing up, so they don't really count, felt guilty for cheating on bff during the sex act, so we can remove those from the total, thought about what bff was doing whilst having sex with OM, during the sex act, so well, have to remove those, too. Wow! Wadya know! That brings the number down to 20!


----------



## bff

I don't believe there's any possibility at all of her waiving alimony. None. And, while it may help some people to heal to know all the details, I'm not one of them. I don't need to look back to move forward. I have a date tonite.  I think I'll focus on that...

And MM's math is probably about right.


----------



## happyman64

BFF

Enjoy your date. 

Keep moving forward.

I agree with you screw the details. None of her answers (truth or lies) will make any difference or change the outcome.

Just go be happy. Life is too short.

HM64


----------



## sandc

bff said:


> I don't believe there's any possibility at all of her waiving alimony. None. And, while it may help some people to heal to know all the details, I'm not one of them. I don't need to look back to move forward. I have a date tonite.  I think I'll focus on that...
> 
> And MM's math is probably about right.


Kind of wish your stbxw could spot you out on your date. Does that make me petty and vindictive? Good!


----------



## bff

Ah, life is good!  It is wonderful to get a taste of what's out there now that I have unlimited possibilities. Had a GREAT date last night. Won't be my last.


----------



## AngryandUsed

Bff,
Happy that you are finding .......
Take care however, I am sure you will


----------



## the guy

bff said:


> Ah, life is good! It is wonderful to get a taste of what's out there now that I have unlimited possibilities. Had a GREAT date last night. Won't be my last.


Sweet!!!!!!


----------



## happyman64

Good for you.

And report back often so that those of us with the ball & chain can live vicariously through you.....

:rofl:

HM64


----------



## bff

So I was out for a run this evening after work... my virtual hero, Shamwow, gave me the advice to drop "that last 20 lbs - it makes all the difference", so I'm working on it! Down from 215 to 202 and on my way to 185!

As a refresher, my STBxW lives just a mile or so from me now, further back into a valley. So, there's only one road in and out. So I'm about 3/4 mile into my run, feeling pretty good, and I look over and who's stopped in traffic with his window down, on his way to my STBxW's house?? The OM! Without breaking stride, I give a nice cheery "Hiiiiii ________!" He looks over, sees it's me waving at him and snaps his head back straight. 

I felt GREAT. No triggers. No emotional breakdown. No anger. Just thinking "That's pretty funny. Those two sad f*&ks are still together!" All it did was motivate me to run harder and faster. I completed my 4 mile loop THREE FULL MINUTES faster than I had in the last 5 years. You know what that means? That means for the last 5 years, I've been SOFT. I've been working at LESS THAN MY POTENTIAL. I've been WEAK. I've been CONTENT to be MEDIOCRE.

NO MORE!!! NO FREAKING WAY!!! BFF 2.0 is on the scene now. That new time is now the slowest I will ever run that loop again. I feel like I've taken several years off my age in the last couple weeks. I bought some weights and have been hitting those. I'm getting out on the road running and on my bike. I've been on a couple dates, have another lined up this weekend, have been cooking great food for myself and am now considering moving into the city instead of staying in this same suburban neighborhood that I've been in for the last 8 years.

I don't know if there's a different forum for "bragging after separation" threads that I should be posting in, but I think that's what I'm going to be doing here for a little while! 

Thanks for listening...

BFF


----------



## bff

sorry - double post.


----------



## Complexity

Yeesh!, what scumbags. I'm glad you managed to hold your composure.


----------



## COguy

LOL glad you're working on BFF 2.0 

I can definitely say I know what you mean. I feel like I have a new lease on life. Glad you didn't have kids with that monster.

Have fun living life!


----------



## dymo

May want to let OMGF know. Assuming they are still together.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bff

Thought about that. She made it clear that she doesn't really care to do anything about this relationship.

I think the more important person to inform is my attorney. I assume her having a "roommate" will reduce my spousal support.

And at this point I guess we should be calling him the STBxWBF instead of the OM?


----------



## MattMatt

Mess with his mind. Ask his GF out on a date.


----------



## Malaise

Matt this is evil! 

I like it


----------



## MattMatt

Malaise said:


> Matt this is evil!
> 
> I like it


Thank you. Sometimes I surprise myself.


----------



## sandc

BFF, my man, I think it's time for a new thread. ;-)


----------



## warlock07

I don't mind. And yes, a change of place might be good.


----------



## Jonesey

Malaise said:


> Matt this is evil!
> 
> I like it


You forgot to say it´s little Kinky as well


----------



## Jonesey

Maybe it has been asked,and explained. But what was her explanation For the relationship with OM and still married to at the same time?

If answerd,so under which post number can i read it..


----------



## Malaise

Jonesey said:


> Maybe it has been asked,and explained. But what was her explanation For the relationship with OM and still married to at the same time?
> 
> If answerd,so under which post number can i read it..


I may be wrong but I beleive the explanation is that she was a cake-eating cheat.

But I could be wrong.


----------



## Seawolf

bff said:


> So I was out for a run this evening after work... my virtual hero, Shamwow, gave me the advice to drop "that last 20 lbs - it makes all the difference", so I'm working on it! Down from 215 to 202 and on my way to 185!
> 
> As a refresher, my STBxW lives just a mile or so from me now, further back into a valley. So, there's only one road in and out. So I'm about 3/4 mile into my run, feeling pretty good, and I look over and who's stopped in traffic with his window down, on his way to my STBxW's house?? The OM! Without breaking stride, I give a nice cheery "Hiiiiii ________!" He looks over, sees it's me waving at him and snaps his head back straight.
> 
> I felt GREAT. No triggers. No emotional breakdown. No anger. Just thinking "That's pretty funny. Those two sad f*&ks are still together!" All it did was motivate me to run harder and faster. I completed my 4 mile loop THREE FULL MINUTES faster than I had in the last 5 years. You know what that means? That means for the last 5 years, I've been SOFT. I've been working at LESS THAN MY POTENTIAL. I've been WEAK. I've been CONTENT to be MEDIOCRE.
> 
> NO MORE!!! NO FREAKING WAY!!! BFF 2.0 is on the scene now. That new time is now the slowest I will ever run that loop again. I feel like I've taken several years off my age in the last couple weeks. I bought some weights and have been hitting those. I'm getting out on the road running and on my bike. I've been on a couple dates, have another lined up this weekend, have been cooking great food for myself and am now considering moving into the city instead of staying in this same suburban neighborhood that I've been in for the last 8 years.
> 
> I don't know if there's a different forum for "bragging after separation" threads that I should be posting in, but I think that's what I'm going to be doing here for a little while!
> 
> Thanks for listening...
> 
> BFF


If you want to really take it to the next level, I've got one word for you: P90X. Ok, it's not a word, but you get the point. 90 days, with diet you will be transformed


----------



## happyman64

Hey BFF

Your post made my eyes tear up. And I do not cry.

That is the key to your success.

Use that anger/emotion to shave off a few minutes off your time, to improve yourself.

Use that anger to see clearly, to call your attorney and get that spousal support lowered.

That is the key to BFF2.0. To get revenge by living a great happy life. To find a woman that truly loves you for you. The new you.

So glad that you posted.

And even thought Matt's idea to date the OM GF was funny, do not waste your time.

Find a new hottie that is totally new and has her own set of friends. That blows away your STBXW. That will not be too hard.

And oh yeah, when you do get serious and have a few BFF's running around, send her a Xmas card with a nice picture of your new wife and kids on the front to her just once.

And on the inside just write "Wishing You Well...."

That says it all about who you are. And I guarantee you she will ponder that message for the rest of her life.

HM64

PS
My tears were tears of joy for you!!!


----------



## MattMatt

Something struck me, today. My wife and I were out with a female friend of hers.

Sometimes her friend likes to get me to try what she is eating, and samples my beer. (At the same time my wife samples it.)

She is an attractive woman, BUT sex is not on the agenda.

How can people in a similar situation like bff's wife and best friend not see where the boundary is and completely cross over it? 

From what bff has posted, they now feel remorse and guilt over what they did.


----------



## jh52

MattMatt said:


> Something struck me, today. My wife and I were out with a female friend of hers.
> 
> Sometimes her friend likes to get me to try what she is eating, and samples my beer. (At the same time my wife samples it.)
> 
> She is an attractive woman, BUT sex is not on the agenda.
> 
> How can people in a similar situation like bff's wife and best friend not see where the boundary is and completely cross over it?
> 
> From what bff has posted, they now feel remorse and guilt over what they did.


Hey MM -- I don't remember reading the stbxw and OM are feeling any remorse since bff posted OM was on his way last week to see his stbxw while he was out running.


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

Seawolf said:


> If you want to really take it to the next level, I've got one word for you: P90X. Ok, it's not a word, but you get the point. 90 days, with diet you will be transformed


I approve this message.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattMatt

jh52 said:


> Hey MM -- I don't remember reading the stbxw and OM are feeling any remorse since bff posted OM was on his way last week to see his stbxw while he was out running.


Something bff said a while back certainly gave me the impression that they felt remorse or guilt.


----------



## Zak68

MattMatt said:


> How can people in a similar situation like bff's wife and best friend not see where the boundary is and completely cross over it?


That's easy. The world right now is all about ME. What do I want? What do I need?

ME, ME, ME...

I asked my wife the same thing. How could she not see the line, even when she had that moment just before it happened when she asked him if he'd done it before and he said yes. Even after that revalation she went through with it.

Simple, she only thought about herself. What she wanted.

They don't care about the long term impacts. The rush, the excitement of doing something taboo blinds them to reason and what is right. After it is done it's just a matter of "What the heck, I've all ready done it once."

When I was confronted with a chance to cheat the woman asked me and I looked at my wedding ring and told her I couldn't. There were issues in my marriage but I knew doing that was not the answer and was only self serving.


----------



## turnera

And it will only get worse with this generation, which was RAISED on ME.


----------



## TroubledSexLife

bff, i have a question about your XW after reading a post by juicer:

Did you XW at least contribute financially towards the downpayments/mortgages of the house? or at least in other financial ways.

So messed up how screwed the court system is.


----------



## dymo

MattMatt said:


> Something bff said a while back certainly gave me the impression that they felt remorse or guilt.


I think you may have been reading too much into things.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Machiavelli

Seawolf said:


> If you want to really take it to the next level, I've got one word for you: P90X. Ok, it's not a word, but you get the point. 90 days, *with diet* you will be transformed


Fixed that for ya.


----------



## bff

Hey gang,

Been away for a little while and missed a flurry of posts, here. I'm going to answer those and then start a new thread over on the Divorce forum. That's where the discussion will be going.

First - HM64 - Thanks!! I am completely overwhelmed by how much support I've gotten here and how emotionally invested many of you have become in my situation alongside me. It means more to me than you'll ever know!

A couple other questions to answer or address. Yes, she did contribute to the properties. While I make considerably more than her, the money she made went "into the pot" and went towards the property taxes and other stuff related to the house, if not the mortgage payment directly. So, if you were headed towards making the case that she doesn't really deserve a piece of the property, that's not the case.

And, about them feeling remorse or guilt... if they do or did and I reported on it, I was wrong. I've seen my STBxW multiple times and the words "I'm sorry" have never materialized. Now, to be fair, we've had essentially NO conversation about the what/why/how since the day after I walked out. We've only talked simple logistics about finances and property.

I don't know if I'll ever talk to her about the what and the why. I'm at a point where I wish she and the OM would just vanish. I don't have a burning need for answers. I look at it as having very little to do with me - I think I was marginalized as they built their own relationship. I definitely "own" that I wasn't really providing a fulfilling relationship in terms of our marriage, but I can only own 50% of that and only up until the point that she started investing in her "other" relationship instead of ours. So, it's not like I don't want to learn from this, I just think the best thing for me is to move forward and not look back.

I'll post the link here for the thread in the Divorce forum once I start it.

Thanks again to all of you. I love you guys!!!!

BFF


----------



## MattMatt

dymo said:


> I think you may have been reading too much into things.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You could be right. But I hope you are wrong. Because otherwise they'd be well, not very nice people...


----------



## sandc

BFF! Good to get an update from you. I was just about to ask how you have been doing. Sounds like you're doing just fine! OM and STBXW are just marbles now.


----------



## happyman64

BFF

Thanks for the update.

I am glad you are well.

Just keep putting one foot in front of the other.

And as far as your STBXW or POSOM, who really cares what the could say, would say or shoud have said.

Because in your mind they will always be who they are, Not True Friends Of Yours.......

Look to the future, everything you need and desire is in that direction.

HM64

Ps
Keep getting your times down.


----------



## ladybird

Depending on what type of phone your wife has, you can install keyloggers on cell phones too. webwatcher.com - web monitoring

DO NOT confront until you have evidence, she will only deny it and will make it much hard to find the truth (covering tracks) 

I am sorry

Your BFF wasn't really a friend to begin with if he is indeed having an affair with your wife.


----------



## sandc

ladybird said:


> Depending on what type of phone your wife has, you can install keyloggers on cell phones too. webwatcher.com - web monitoring
> 
> DO NOT confront until you have evidence, she will only deny it and will make it much hard to find the truth (covering tracks)
> 
> I am sorry
> 
> Your BFF wasn't really a friend to begin with if he is indeed having an affair with your wife.



Ladybird you missed much of the thread. In short: he caught her, he confronted her, he is divorcing her, he is moving on. :smthumbup:


----------



## ladybird

bff said:


> I'm very nervous about installing something on her computer. She is really smart and observant. Doesn't anti-virus software catch these programs trying to send all of this logged information from the computer to an online account? I think I'm going to start with VARs and listen in the car and then in the bedroom when I am at the next conference. These other things - GPS and keyloggers - sound like phase 2.


 NO!! There are some really good key loggers out there that are undetectable, unless you really know what you are looking for, most people wouldn't know what to look for anyways, unless you are a computer wiz.

Some of the key loggers you have to set the antivirus software so it wont detect it.

webwatcher.com is one of the best there is (that I have used) You can have all logs sent to an online account and access them from anywhere, so you will never have to get on her computer again after installing. The down side is that webwatcher is about 100.00 to buy, but so worth every penny.


----------



## Chaparral

How has it been going with your families and friends? Have you been getting plenty of support or any surprises?

The way your thread went, I am not sure you were made aware of the book Married Man Sex Life (very much misnamed IMHO as it sounds like a sex manual but isn't). You, as well as every man, should be required to read it before they start. If you haven't read it, please do so before you start dating again.


----------



## bff

eBook acquired, Chapparal. And in just skimming through it, I can tell that I have a lot to learn! I will read it this week and report back...


----------



## sandc

I got the book just before my vacation. I don't have any major problems in my marriage but I figured I'd pick it up anyway to see what all the fuss is about. Great book. Written in a very conversational style. Like you best buddy sat you down and is giving you the answers to life.


----------



## bff

I'm only about 25% of the way through the Married Man Sex Life Primer, but I think it is a MUST READ for every man who is in or ever wants to be in a long term relationship. Talk about a mis-titled book!

The chapter on balancing alpha/beta characteristics alone is worth the price of admission. Thanks for being so insistent, chapparal. Based on the title alone I didn't want to buy/read the book, but it is fantastic so far.

BFF


----------



## bff

Hey gang,

I'm 4.5 months past my separation date and thought I'd give a quick update. It's all good news!

My STBXW and I sat down with our attorneys earlier this week and hammered out all of the details for a complete settlement. This was after we spent about $25k on attorney fees and got NOWHERE. My advice to anyone in a no-fault state - if you can interact amicably with your STBX, do a mediated divorce or just hire one attorney to work with both of you. 90% of the money was completely wasted on the attorneys intentionally complicating things versus trying to get to a resolution.

My STBXW and I are on fine speaking terms. We've had to interact to sell the house I am living in, exchange property, etc. We're almost done there, and I'm moving into San Francisco and getting an apartment.

Personally, I'm doing awesome. I'm down about 20 lbs and nearly FOUR inches on my pant size! I'm feeling great and have a very positive outlook on the future. I've been dabbling in [online] dating, but am more focused just on taking care of ME at this point and getting settled in the city. Then I can turn on that spigot!

I can't say enough how much you all have helped me through this process. Being further away now and looking back over my shoulder, I realize even MORE how important some of the decisions were that you helped drive me to, against my own instincts often.

Thanks, TAM family! Consider this one a success story.

I'll check back in when things are FINAL FINAL in February.

BFF


----------



## happyman64

Hey BFF

Glad you are doing well. Sorry you wasted all that money.

Hope you will be having better times in the future.

HM64


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

BFF, it's great to hear from you and I'm glad that you're doing well. Twenty-five large? Wow, that's a lot of scratch.

Wasn't it Shakespeare that said 'first thing, kill all the lawyers'?

I've been to a lot of great cities and San Francisco is one of my favorites. I might have to look you up next time I'm out that way.


----------



## Shaggy

More usefully the 25K could be spent making the OMs life a living hell for a long time.


----------



## WyshIknew

Any remorse from her over what happened?

Is she still with ex best friend?


----------



## warlock07

bff said:


> Hey gang,
> 
> I'm 4.5 months past my separation date and thought I'd give a quick update. It's all good news!
> 
> My STBXW and I sat down with our attorneys earlier this week and hammered out all of the details for a complete settlement. This was after we spent about $25k on attorney fees and got NOWHERE. My advice to anyone in a no-fault state - if you can interact amicably with your STBX, do a mediated divorce or just hire one attorney to work with both of you. 90% of the money was completely wasted on the attorneys intentionally complicating things versus trying to get to a resolution.
> 
> My STBXW and I are on fine speaking terms. We've had to interact to sell the house I am living in, exchange property, etc. We're almost done there, and I'm moving into San Francisco and getting an apartment.
> 
> Personally, I'm doing awesome. I'm down about 20 lbs and nearly FOUR inches on my pant size! I'm feeling great and have a very positive outlook on the future. I've been dabbling in [online] dating, but am more focused just on taking care of ME at this point and getting settled in the city. Then I can turn on that spigot!
> 
> I can't say enough how much you all have helped me through this process. Being further away now and looking back over my shoulder, I realize even MORE how important some of the decisions were that you helped drive me to, against my own instincts often.
> 
> Thanks, TAM family! Consider this one a success story.
> 
> I'll check back in when things are FINAL FINAL in February.
> 
> BFF


bff comes off a genuinely great guy.. So much positive attitude..


----------



## Caribbean Man

Thanks for the update.
$25K is a lot of money! 
But I guess its worth your peace of mind .

Good to see that you have read the MMSL and from all indications its having a positive impact on you.
Best wishes on your new life and may the gods be with you.


----------



## BjornFree

WyshIknew said:


> Any remorse from her over what happened?
> 
> Is she still with ex best friend?


Eh,

Who cares?


----------



## Chaparral

BjornFree said:


> Eh,
> 
> Who cares?


Because it gives you a warm and cheery feeling when their actions come home to roost.

I bet their old friends are so happy to be around them now.


----------



## WyshIknew

chapparal said:


> Because it gives you a warm and cheery feeling when their actions come home to roost.
> 
> I bet their old friends are so happy to be around them now.


Yes, It's probably a bad aspect of me but it would be nice to know (for me anyway) that things have turned to shet for them.

Also a little curious because Bff stated that he and STBXW were on fine speaking terms.


----------



## bff

We are completely cordial as far as working through issues related to selling the house and finalizing the divorce, but we've not talked at all about what happened. She's never apologized, asked how I'm doing - nothing. I still haven't talked to OM.

I'm not sure if they're together. I do know that OM's GF left him and he walked away from the house they owned together. Rumor is he "got an apartment" which probably means he's living with my STBXW. But my attitude is, as above, "eh, who cares?" I'll eventually care purely for financial reasons and if I find out they are truly living together I'll get spousal support adjusted downward. I've got my own life to focus on now.

Karma, god, balance of energy in the universe - whatever you choose to believe in - will take care of them in the long run. They're no longer "my project". 

It's probably worth mentioning that several people have finally come forward and said to me either that they suspected or knew what was going on. I guess they confess to me to make themselves feel better, because it sure doesn't make ME feel better to know that others have known for a long time...

BFF


----------



## BjornFree

chapparal said:


> Because it gives you a warm and cheery feeling when their actions come home to roost.
> 
> I bet their old friends are so happy to be around them now.


You know what would give me a warmer cheerier feeling? Taking that hottie down the street out on a date.


----------



## turnera

I sure hope you told those friends that that's not your definition of a friend.


----------



## WyshIknew

Thing is Bff, even if the Karma Bus never truly hits them you will still be the man living the better life.

And when you finally get back into the dating market you will find that you are hot property.

I think it was Sandc that mentioned meeting you IRL and saying you were one handsome, intelligent dude.

Are you still going to keep that cabin/house with the beautiful view that you posted in this thread?

Or is that one of the properties going?

It looked like an awesome place.


----------



## bff

turnera - I definitely let them know that while it would have been awkward for them to tell me 5 years ago, imagine how awkward it was for me to find out that 5+ years of my life was a complete lie!! I forgave them all, but let them know that if they ever see something like that again with any of their friends, they should say something about it. It's the Homeland Security mantra - if you see something, say something!

WyshIknew - Agreed - I don't need (or even want) to see them suffer to be happy. To the contrary, I want to actually embrace the live and let live philosophy I claim to follow.

The house with the view is the one I'm currently selling and moving out of. The problem with that house is that I can *almost* see my STBXW's house from the deck. :-/

Any apartment in the city will have a better view, simply because it will be new and different and miles away from a period of my life that I need to put behind me. It's all good.

BFF


----------



## keko

Bff I'm so glad you're much better then when you first found out what was going on. You deserve the best so never settle for anything less. :smthumbup:



bff said:


> It's probably worth mentioning that several people have finally come forward and said to me either that they suspected or knew what was going on. I guess they confess to me to make themselves feel better, because it sure doesn't make ME feel better to know that others have known for a long time...


Bunch of spineless, immoral people. Why not say it before?


----------



## COguy

Glad you're doing well.

You're going to have an awesome life, because you're one of those positive people that will always better themselves.

Go easy on the ladies....


----------



## Jason439

Good to hear you are doing well. Your story has been an inspiration to many. 

All the best in this new chapter!


----------



## OldWolf57

Man don't you disappear on us anymore !!!

hahahaha. By the way, we are telling others to use you as an example for bff and ww's.

Damn it's good to know you OK man !!

God Bless Bro.


----------



## Chaparral

BjornFree said:


> You know what would give me a warmer cheerier feeling? Taking that hottie down the street out on a date.


He could date a rock and it would be a big improvement. And his ex bf sounds like a world class loser. Her biggest punishment would be to struggle on with him.

I hope she sees bff with newer, more advanced model soon.


----------



## warlock07

Did not want to threadjack the other thread but she was cheating on you for 7 years in a 10 year marriage ? That is f*cked up!!!


----------



## MattMatt

bff said:


> We are completely cordial as far as working through issues related to selling the house and finalizing the divorce, but we've not talked at all about what happened. She's never apologized, asked how I'm doing - nothing. I still haven't talked to OM.
> 
> I'm not sure if they're together. I do know that OM's GF left him and he walked away from the house they owned together. Rumor is he "got an apartment" which probably means he's living with my STBXW. But my attitude is, as above, "eh, who cares?" I'll eventually care purely for financial reasons and if I find out they are truly living together I'll get spousal support adjusted downward. I've got my own life to focus on now.
> 
> Karma, god, balance of energy in the universe - whatever you choose to believe in - will take care of them in the long run. They're no longer "my project".
> 
> It's probably worth mentioning that several people have finally come forward and said to me either that they suspected or knew what was going on. I guess they confess to me to make themselves feel better, because it sure doesn't make ME feel better to know that others have known for a long time...
> 
> BFF


They might have assumed that you knew, or that you were working things on a "don't ask, don't tell basis."

Really good to see you doing well. And that you are back on TAM. Your input will be most helpful.

I was in Santa Clara in September 2011 visiting the Googleplex. The SF Bay area is just awesome!:smthumbup:


----------



## bff

Yep, cheating 7 of a little less than 10 years. Add in no fault divorce in California and the f'd-up factor is off the charts! But, I have moved on and am not letting that hold me back.

MattMatt, PM me if you come back to the Bay Area. Would live to buy you a drink or a meal. I'm indebted to so many of you on this board and would love to thank you personally.

BFF
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattMatt

bff said:


> Yep, cheating 7 of a little less than 10 years. Add in no fault divorce in California and the f'd-up factor is off the charts! But, I have moved on and am not letting that hold me back.
> 
> MattMatt, PM me if you come back to the Bay Area. Would live to buy you a drink or a meal. I'm indebted to so many of you on this board and would love to thank you personally.
> 
> BFF
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am hoping to be possibly back in Santa Clara/Mountain View next Fall/Autumn for a week, so that sounds like a plan!:smthumbup:


----------



## dymo

How's it going? Is the divorce final yet?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bff

Hey gang,

Thanks for checking in. My story has a happy ending, although my ending is really just the beginning for me!

The divorce is final-final early next week. We filed our stipulated judgment a couple weeks ago which court just rubber stamped within a few days. We just have to wait for the mandatory 6 month California mandated waiting period to expire (next week).

Financially, this was painful. Half of all of my assets - gone. About $3500 a month in alimony for almost 5 years - expensive. My freedom from liars and cheaters and my newfound happiness - PRICELESS!!! 

I am really focusing on what I still have (which is still more than adequate - I feel very blessed) instead of what I've lost. Karma has paid me off in spades. I got a great promotion at work. I found a super-sweet apartment in San Francisco that brings me great joy. I've rediscovered some great friendships that had atrophied over the course of my marriage. I've discovered cardio boxing and am in the best shape I've been in 15 years. I've recently started dating a woman who had only been a friend for several years, and now we find ourselves in a position where a different type of relationship is possible.

My life is GOOD! I'm happier today than since I don't know when. All of my friends and coworkers are stunned by my transformation into a happier, more alive person.

My thinking about my ex and the OM and the cheating have evolved, too. While I am still shocked by the depth and duration of the deception, I am harboring no anger or need for revenge or justice towards either one. They made bad bad decisions and now they have to live with the concequences. More than anything, I feel sorry for them, as they have to live with that guilt. I'd forgive them both, bit neither has said they were sorry or shown any remorse. For me, they just exist in the rearview mirror. And I'm only looking out the windshield...

BFF
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

Great news BFF you turned a sh!t sandwich into prime rib. You deserve nothing but the best. Sad you couldn't get a simple apology oh well they will get theirs in the end.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

That is awesome. Good to hear.

Does make me sick to my stomach to hear you have to pay $3500 a month for 5 years. Crazy. So she breaks her vows, treats you with complete disrespect ... and you end up having to pay her for it. Seems really unfair.

Ahh well, that beef aside, I really happy that you have found peace. You have a much better life ahead of you.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Sucks financially, but 5 beats some of the people I know. They would have LOVED only 5 years.


----------



## Almostrecovered

reason to never live in CA #108


----------



## bff

If I hadn't figured things out when I did - just THREE more months - and I would have been paying FOREVER! Yep, 5 doesn't seem so bad in that context.


----------



## tom67

Almostrecovered said:


> reason to never live in CA #108


Ha that and being taxed into oblivion or as mike tyson said into bolivian


----------



## tom67

bff said:


> If I hadn't figured things out when I did - just THREE more months - and I would have been paying FOREVER! Yep, 5 doesn't seem so bad in that context.


Have to love that term "community property" ugh!


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

bff said:


> If I hadn't figured things out when I did - just THREE more months - and I would have been paying FOREVER! Yep, 5 doesn't seem so bad in that context.


Holy crap, lol


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

Almostrecovered said:


> reason to never live in CA #108


Only #108?


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

Bff, it's always nice to hear from you.

Your story has been an inspiration for many and is often referenced in this forum.

Like you, I took a hit financially but as the old joke goes: 'Why do divorces cost so much? Because they're worth it.'

There's nothing like peace of mind.

Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Almostrecovered

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Only #108?


it's reason number 108 OF 3000


----------



## tom67

Almostrecovered said:


> it's reason number 108 OF 3000


California residents, businesses consider bailing on Golden State over taxes | Fox News


----------



## spudster

California is a beautiful, wonderful state rich with natural resources and natural wonders...which unfortunately is governed by well meaning amateurs who, frankly, are clueless as to how to be fiscally responsible and who continue to uphold archaic laws such as alimony...

Wait, am I talking about California or the US in general?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

earthquakes
traffic
hippies
no fois gras


----------



## tom67

The socialist hippies want programs for everyone but fail to realize you actually have to pay for it in the end.


----------



## bff

Really guys? After 83 pages of me pouring out my life, this has become a CA politics bashing thread?

It ain't perfect, but it is a pretty awesome place to live.

BFF


----------



## spudster

Bff do you ever talk with your ex wife at all or have you cut all ties?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch

Great to hear from you bff! 

FWIW I was in san francisco a few weeks back and it was super nice!! Definitely will be going back soon.


----------



## spudster

bff said:


> Really guys? After 83 pages of me pouring out my life, this has become a CA politics bashing thread?
> 
> It ain't perfect, but it is a pretty awesome place to live.
> 
> BFF


Cali is a fantastic state. Beautiful. But you have to admit you have some boneheads handling the money.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jasel

bff said:


> Really guys? After 83 pages of me pouring out my life, this has become a CA politics bashing thread?


Unfortunately I've noticed several topics lately throughout TAM, including this section, have desolved into political gripes and ideological side commentary. Wish people would keep it in the politics and religion section.


----------



## tom67

bff said:


> Really guys? After 83 pages of me pouring out my life, this has become a CA politics bashing thread?
> 
> It ain't perfect, but it is a pretty awesome place to live.
> 
> BFF


Ha it's a multipurpose thread. Illinois is just as bad with our guaranteed pensions. BFF did Eric415 pm you? I hope he did he is on vaca in bc for a week.


----------



## tom67

His thread is in the private section.


----------



## spudster

You guys can feel free to harp on Arizona. I'm game.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered




----------



## tom67

Almostrecovered said:


>


Who has more fun than people.:scratchhead:


----------



## Caribbean Man

bff said:


> *My life is GOOD! * I'm happier today than since I don't know when. All of my friends and coworkers are stunned by my transformation into a happier, more alive person.


^^^Most important of all!
You feel happier because the weight is off your shoulder.


----------



## bff

Someone asked if I ever talk to her... the answer is that I communicate with her all the time, but I rarely talk to her. We took the reigns from the attorneys who were simply racking up billable hours arguing over things that she and I could easily agree on. So, we've been working together very constructively with little/no conflict to finalize the divorce terms (done), sell the house I was living in (done), divide up the retirement accounts (done), divide up the cars (done), remove each other from shared services like auto insurance (done) and finally separate the remaining cash and investments (in process, going well).

[edit] We do 99% of this via email.

I am going to have to have ongoing communication with her because I have to be the custodian for all of the stock options in my company that she now owns but are not transferable. So, I'll have to sell them when she instructs me to do so.

And, as I think I mentioned a long way back in the thread, we share a common hobby (small community) so I will see her 8-10 weekends a year when we're doing that hobby. The OM is also involved, so I'll be seeing them TOGETHER at those events.

Cheers,

BFF


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

bff said:


> And, as I think I mentioned a long way back in the thread, we share a common hobby (small community) so I will see her 8-10 weekends a year when we're doing that hobby. The OM is also involved, so I'll be seeing them TOGETHER at those events.
> 
> BFF


Maybe you can convince them to find another hobby.


----------



## Almostrecovered

I have a feeling their hobby of being unfaithful will catch up to them eventually, there's a reason most affairs don't survive long term


----------



## sandc

almostrecovered said:


> earthquakes
> traffic
> hippies
> no fois gras


bff
sandc
.
.
.


----------



## Numbersixxx

spudster said:


> California is a beautiful, wonderful state rich with natural resources and natural wonders...which unfortunately is governed by well meaning amateurs who, frankly, are clueless as to how to be fiscally responsible and who continue to uphold archaic laws such as alimony...
> 
> Wait, am I talking about California or the US in general?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, it's a government from the people and by the people, so I guess people got what they are asking for.

It's unfortunate how Americans fought a civil war to end the abomination of slavery, and yet they don't show enough political will to reform the family court system that is depriving people (mostly men) of wealth and putting them into another form of slavery. Sorry for sounding so melodramatic, but there is no other way to describe the alimony system.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Maybe you can convince them to find another hobby.


That's ok bring your new lady friend with you, or hire Suzy F Hamilton for those times. or not.


----------



## bff

Hate isn't the opposite of love, indifference is. I couldn't give a **** if they're there or not. It's of no consequence to me. I hope that's a good sign of how far I've come emotionally.

That being said, my gal and a couple of her hot friends are coming to the next event... ;-)


----------



## Mike11

I am willing to bet bff that this will stir the S1hit pot heavily 

Are they officially together in the open ? (your Ex and Posom)


----------



## tom67

bff said:


> Hate isn't the opposite of love, indifference is. I couldn't give a **** if they're there or not. It's of no consequence to me. I hope that's a good sign of how far I've come emotionally.
> 
> That being said, my gal and a couple of her hot friends are coming to the next event... ;-)


Ha you'll be too busy to deal with them, nice!


----------



## bff

Are they together out in the open? It's not clear, so I guess the answer is no. Since I've moved, I don't run in to them and I don't talk to people who interact with them frequently, so I don't really know. I've asked her point blank if they're cohabitating and she says absolutely not. But, she accidentally sent me an IM about a week ago that clearly wasn't meant for me and if I read between the lines it was "I'm home now, so you can come over." I politely asked her to delete me as a contact. Those of you who have followed the whole thread might remember that her accidentally sending me an IM that wasn't intended for me was one of the things that tipped her hand a couple months before D-Day.

I'm sure they'll be "together" at our next event, but they'll be mixed in with a larger group of people. That doesn't mean they're a couple, just that they are still cordial. I'd bet any amount of money that they ARE still a couple, even though I couldn't give a ****.


----------



## MattMatt

There would be a way for you to get a bit more closure and to heap burning coals on their heads, from the very heights of the moral high ground.

How? *Do not wait for them to apologise before you forgive them. Forgive them now.* Play the angel :biggrinangelA: and see them feel like


----------



## Malaise

bff said:


> Are they together out in the open? It's not clear, so I guess the answer is no. Since I've moved, I don't run in to them and I don't talk to people who interact with them frequently, so I don't really know. I've asked her point blank if they're cohabitating and she says absolutely not. But, she accidentally sent me an IM about a week ago that clearly wasn't meant for me and if I read between the lines it was "I'm home now, so you can come over." I politely asked her to delete me as a contact. Those of you who have followed the whole thread might remember that her accidentally sending me an IM that wasn't intended for me was one of the things that tipped her hand a couple months before D-Day.
> 
> I'm sure they'll be "together" at our next event, but they'll be mixed in with a larger group of people. That doesn't mean they're a couple, just that they are still cordial. I'd bet any amount of money that they ARE still a couple, even though I couldn't give a ****.


You're a far better man than I. If I saw them at the event I would have to say something. That's me. Kudos for being stronger, indifferent, more mature.


----------



## bff

Not better, just more analytical  Through this entire process, I've collected information and make the decisions that would be best for me in the long run, leaving my emotional needs for things to be "right" aside. That process has served me well. And after several months of envisioning all the different ways my confrontation with the POSOM could go - ranging from me punching the crap out of him (thank you boxing classes!) to me spitting in his face - I decided that just ignoring him is what will have the best outcome for me. So, it's just me being selfish (and smart) ;-)

I really like MattMatt's suggestion. I plan to just ignore the guy, but if he does try to engage me, I very well might forgive him and possibly even thank him and then walk away.


----------



## spudster

You have a great frame of mind about the whole thing bff. Frankly I would have a big problem being cordial with a WW who did what she did to you. 

But you are correct: indifference is healthier than hate. And I agree with the others that your STBXW is going to wake up one day and realize what she lost, but by that time you will have long moved on. Well, you already have to a large extent. 

My hat's off to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JMGrey

Numbersixxx said:


> Well, it's a government from the people and by the people, so I guess people got what they are asking for.
> 
> It's unfortunate how Americans fought a civil war to end the abomination of slavery, and yet they don't show enough political will to reform the family court system that is depriving people (mostly men) of wealth and putting them into another form of slavery. Sorry for sounding so melodramatic, but there is no other way to describe the alimony system.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't kid yourself. The abolition of slavery was just the pretext. The purpose of the Civil War was to determine the fate of states' rights (and by extension the efficacy of the 10th amendment) and whether the executive branch would be able to effectively suspend protection of inalienable rights (remember that such rights, says the Constitution, are not granted by the government, merely safeguarded). Since the end of the war, the US has been a de facto oligarchy shrouded in the myth of a republic

And before you ask, no, I'm not a Southerner.


----------



## keko

bff said:


> Financially, this was painful. Half of all of my assets - gone. About $3500 a month in alimony for almost 5 years - expensive. My freedom from liars and cheaters and my newfound happiness - PRICELESS!!!


:smthumbup:

I'm glad you're doing much better.


----------



## spudster

JMGrey said:


> Don't kid yourself. The abolition of slavery was just the pretext. The purpose of the Civil War was to determine the fate of states' rights (and by extension the efficacy of the 10th amendment) and whether the executive branch would be able to effectively suspend protection of inalienable rights (remember that such rights, says the Constitution, are not granted by the government, merely safeguarded). Since the end of the war, the US has been a de facto oligarchy shrouded in the myth of a republic
> 
> And before you ask, no, I'm not a Southerner.


Another goal of the Civil War was to trnsform the Republic into a Federal system where the central government was more powerful than the combined states. Prior to the war we were a Republic of little independent countries basically.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

Bff, the hobby of which you speak wouldn't happen to be needlepoint or crocheting?

I can't help but envisioning you 'accidentally' stabbing the sh!t out of that loser best friend of yours.

But seriously, I totally understand what you mean about indifference. This past Saturday was my ex's 50th birthday, which normally would've been time for a big party celebrating said event. (My 50th was eleven days earlier and in years past we would've had a joint celebration.)

On my birthday, she sent me a text wishing me Happy Birthday. Did I return the favor? Heck no. For me it was a non-event. Of course, I triggered several times that day pondering what might have been. In fact, it hurt me tremendously not to wish her happy birthday but she's no longer a part of my life (except for interactions concerning the kids.)


----------



## sandc

Bff, you're very good at forgiveness. I think that's the way to go.

Living the dream is the best revenge. And ain't California great?


----------



## MattMatt

sandc said:


> Bff, you're very good at forgiveness. I think that's the way to go.
> 
> Living the dream is the best revenge. And ain't California great?


I only saw the route from the airport to Santa Clara, the Santa Clara Marriott and Mountain View.

*And I still think California is great*!:smthumbup:


----------



## sandc

MattMatt said:


> I only saw the route from the airport to Santa Clara, the Santa Clara Marriott and Mountain View.
> 
> *And I still think California is great*!:smthumbup:


I used to work in Sunnyvale right next door. It only gets better from there.


----------



## Jonesey

Spudster and JMGREY 

Interesting to hear you guys saying that.. Is there any place on the net. You two would recommend me to get more info about what has been said.. 

I´m always been interested in History and politic´s.

I always knew that ending the slavery ,wasen´t the sole reason
Just never heard any one put down the way you two have done


----------



## happyman64

> *I plan to just ignore the guy, but if he does try to engage me, I very well might forgive him and possibly even thank him and then walk away.*


Why I think that is the best revenge plan I have ever seen on TAM.

I am glad your head is in the right place and it sounds like your heart is following new interests.

I wish you nothing but the best.

But to pay alimony and half your assets to such a loser sucks. But it is reality.

If you ever get angry do me a favor.

Cash in your stock. Take your dough and GF to Mexico and spend all your Ex's $$$ on your new GF and her hot friends.

Be well BFF. Live long and prosper!

HM64


----------



## bff

CoMC - sorry that day was a trigger for you, but I think you did the right thing by not succumbing to the temptation of texting a quick Happy B-Day. 

HM64 - Thanks again for the always-positive messages! You've got some great therapeutic ideas on how to heal!

I sort of don't give a crap anymore if anyone finds this thread and realizes who I am. The hobby that I've spoke of is auto racing. The OM and I had a shop together and built a couple race cars from the ground up and all three of us actively race together. 

I sold my race cars this morning. Not because I am giving up the sport, but because I've finally gotten into some deals where I can race other people's cars... Like I said, EVERYTHING is going my way!! Shedding a lot of these material possessions has been incredibly cleansing. Lightening my load of material things has felt as good as losing the excess crap around my stomach - everything is easier, now, because I'm slimmer, trimmer and faster. 

BFF


----------



## sandc

*Re: Re: wife and best friend having (at least) an EA*



bff said:


> CoMC - sorry that day was a trigger for you, but I think you did the right thing by not succumbing to the temptation of texting a quick Happy B-Day.
> 
> HM64 - Thanks again for the always-positive messages! You've got some great therapeutic ideas on how to heal!
> 
> I sort of don't give a crap anymore if anyone finds this thread and realizes who I am. The hobby that I've spoke of is auto racing. The OM and I had a shop together and built a couple race cars from the ground up and all three of us actively race together.
> 
> I sold my race cars this morning. Not because I am giving up the sport, but because I've finally gotten into some deals where I can race other people's cars... Like I said, EVERYTHING is going my way!! Shedding a lot of these material possessions has been incredibly cleansing. Lightening my load of material things has felt as good as losing the excess crap around my stomach - everything is easier, now, because I'm slimmer, trimmer and faster.
> 
> BFF


I know this is a good deal for you but that car in the garage was cool.


----------



## LostAndContent

How have her friends reacted? Have they all forgiven or is she still being shunned at all? I would hope most of them just became your friends and stopped talking to her.


----------



## bff

She doesn't have many close friends nearby. I got a lot of holiday cards to our old addressed to both of us, so I'm assuming she hasn't told that many people back on the east coast. I talked to the husband of her closest friend, and he told me she was having a hard time dealing with my XW's lying and cheating.

BTW, my divorce is final TODAY!!!

As a homage to this whole event, and a bit of a cleansing ritual, I went back and retread this entire thread and my journal. It's amazing to read the things I was saying and thinking before I really discovered the truth.

Thanks again to all of you who contributed advice, support or tough love along the way. 

BFF


----------



## tom67

bff said:


> She doesn't have many close friends nearby. I got a lot of holiday cards to our old addressed to both of us, so I'm assuming she hasn't told that many people back on the east coast. I talked to the husband of her closest friend, and he told me she was having a hard time dealing with my XW's lying and cheating.
> 
> BTW, my divorce is final TODAY!!!
> 
> As a homage to this whole event, and a bit of a cleansing ritual, I went back and retread this entire thread and my journal. It's amazing to read the things I was saying and thinking before I really discovered the truth.
> 
> Thanks again to all of you who contributed advice, support or tough love along the way.
> 
> BFF


:smthumbup::woohoo:


----------



## bandit.45

Congratulations bff!

And good luck to your future. I think it is going to be a bright one.

Your ex's future? Not so much....even with all the alimony you are so unfairly having to pay her.


----------



## keko

Congrats bff. :smthumbup:

Stick around and help other newcomers in need.


----------



## sandc

bff said:


> BTW, my divorce is final TODAY!!!
> 
> BFF


I guess our work here is done....

:allhail:


----------



## LostAndContent

bff said:


> She doesn't have many close friends nearby. I got a lot of holiday cards to our old addressed to both of us, so I'm assuming she hasn't told that many people back on the east coast. I talked to the husband of her closest friend, and he told me she was having a hard time dealing with my XW's lying and cheating.
> 
> BTW, my divorce is final TODAY!!!
> 
> As a homage to this whole event, and a bit of a cleansing ritual, I went back and retread this entire thread and my journal. It's amazing to read the things I was saying and thinking before I really discovered the truth.
> 
> Thanks again to all of you who contributed advice, support or tough love along the way.
> 
> BFF


Congratulations!! Your new life will fantastic and you will find happiness you never dreamed of.


----------



## JCD

How is the new relationship going?

Were they at the event? I'm betting if the XW goes, it is to be with POS.


----------



## VFW

bff said:


> BTW, my divorce is final TODAY!!!


Great to hear a happy ending. Your statement of indifference tells us all that you are well. You have a new girl, get to race cars on someone elses dime, what more can you ask for in life? Unfortunately you have the alimony. I bet at the end of five years she will be no farther down the road and her and Barney will have squandered it away. Look at it as your contribution to helping the local economy. Best wishes to you.


----------



## happyman64

BFF

Today is the 1st day of your new life.

Go celebrate and make a promise to yourself to make all your dreams come true.

HM64


----------



## bff

VFW said:


> Look at it as your contribution to helping the local economy.


I laughed out loud at this!! 

Event is in two weeks. I'll report back if there's anything of note, but I'm hoping there is not. I don't need to rub anyone's face in my happiness. I've taken the high road at almost every junction, and now that things are final from a legal standpoint, I'm even less interested in "them".

Two words come to mind whenever I think of all the money, stock, houses, furniture, cars and now alimony that are or will be gone: WORTH IT.


----------



## illwill

Bff, If it's no trigger for you, maybe try to stay around a bit. You handled your mess in such a strong and classy way, and you never lost your self esteem. We could use more guys like you, showing how it's done. You never became a victim of fear, of the unknown, and I think that fear keeps many men from moving on.

Either way, good luck, I see a happy woman in your future.


----------



## lordmayhem

I had to re-read this thread and I have to say CONGRATULATIONS. While I'm a Pro R guy, there was absolutely no chance to save this marriage. The WW was in a 6 Year Long Term Affair with OM being married to bff for 10 years. The WS was completely unremorseful and made no attempt to even try to save the marriage.

Its great to see bff *thriving again* after living in a sham marriage.


----------



## LostAndContent

illwill said:


> Bff, If it's no trigger for you, maybe try to stay around a bit. You handled your mess in such a strong and classy way, and you never lost your self esteem. We could use more guys like you, showing how it's done. You never became a victim of fear, of the unknown, and I think that fear keeps many men from moving on.
> 
> Either way, good luck, I see a happy woman in your future.


:iagree:


----------



## Mtts

Racing huh? I happen to enjoy some road racing events in Oregon. Have participated in autocross here in WA. What kind of cars? (apologize if I missed it.)

Mine obviously being amature/grass roots. I have a mildly modded MR2 turbo that I've enjoyed. 

Glad to get through this thread and I felt some serious relief just reading it. Sorry for the whole fruition at the end, but glad that you've grown as an individual.

Interesting how we grow in most cases through strife, anguish and suffering more than through reaffirmation, love and support. I guess it's just one of life's fun "got ya!" aspects.


----------



## Decorum

bff,
I wish you all the best!


----------



## JCD

I personally would love to hear about how sh*tty her relationship is going...but you don't care anymore, so it's unlikely.


----------



## LostAndContent

JCD said:


> I personally would love to hear about how sh*tty her relationship is going...but you don't care anymore, so it's unlikely.


Yeah I struggle with this sometimes on TAM. On the one hand I really want to find out how much people's XW and XH are suffering, but I also want the BS to detach and never talk to them again.


----------



## bff

I actually hope they live happily ever after. I'm sort of a "positive energy" guy. Anyone suffering or being unhappy doesn't help me in any way. From a completely selfish standpoint, if she's happy she won't cause me any trouble going forward (there are still some financials intertwined) whereas if she's miserable, she has the capacity to try and make me miserable too.

I've grown immensely as an individual. I feel stronger emotionally and much more connected to my own needs as well as an increased sensitivity to the needs of others. I'm just at the beginning stages of dating someone, and she and I are already having more open dialog about our respective needs and expectations than I ever had with my XW. Feels good - like I'm investing in something that's worthwhile.

BFF
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mike11

I know you are not looking for that but That will be the Ultimate Revenge on your ex


----------



## river rat

bff said:


> I laughed out loud at this!!
> 
> Event is in two weeks. I'll report back if there's anything of note, but I'm hoping there is not. I don't need to rub anyone's face in my happiness. I've taken the high road at almost every junction, and now that things are final from a legal standpoint, I'm even less interested in "them".
> 
> Two words come to mind whenever I think of all the money, stock, houses, furniture, cars and now alimony that are or will be gone: WORTH IT.


In the end it's all just stuff. You've maintained honor and integrity. Kudos.


----------



## bff

Quick update - went to the event this past weekend and yes, the two of them were there and were very obviously "together". Almost every time I saw one, I saw the other. The one time I saw just my XW we chatted very cordially. The few times I saw OM, he saw me too and headed off in another direction. He was holding her dog (the one she got as a "companion" to replace me when I left) a lot. When they were walking around together, often he'd be the one holding the leash. He's clearly making an effort to show that they are together - you know, pissing on the fire hydrant to mark his territory. What's great is that I have absolutely ZERO desire to get anywhere near that hydrant, and not just because it smells like piss.

My new gal and a couple of her friends showed up Saturday afternoon. It's a little sad, I guess, that XW and OM didn't see them. The vain side of me probably would have liked that. However, a bunch of my good friends gathered around, and to a person everyone that met the new gal said the same thing: NICE UPGRADE!


----------



## tom67

bff said:


> Quick update - went to the event this past weekend and yes, the two of them were there and were very obviously "together". Almost every time I saw one, I saw the other. The one time I saw just my XW we chatted very cordially. The few times I saw OM, he saw me too and headed off in another direction. He was holding her dog (the one she got as a "companion" to replace me when I left) a lot. When they were walking around together, often he'd be the one holding the leash. He's clearly making an effort to show that they are together - you know, pissing on the fire hydrant to mark his territory. What's great is that I have absolutely ZERO desire to get anywhere near that hydrant, and not just because it smells like piss.
> 
> My new gal and a couple of her friends showed up Saturday afternoon. It's a little sad, I guess, that XW and OM didn't see them. The vain side of me probably would have liked that. However, a bunch of my good friends gathered around, and to a person everyone that met the new gal said the same thing: NICE UPGRADE!


Great news yea too bad maybe next time ex will get a glimpse ha!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## verpin zal

bff said:


> NICE UPGRADE!


I'll toast to THAT.


----------



## keko

Are they living together as well? If they are, wouldn't that help you on the alimony?


----------



## bandit.45

You can bet your ex has gotten the word of your new lady friend from your mutual friends, so even though she wasn't around to see this lady, the images in her mind will be much more colorful than the reality. She'll imagine you're dating someone who looks liks a supermodel. 

I think in time your STBXW will tire of sharing her alimony with the loser XBFF and dump him like a hot rock, or he will push her to marry him, cheat on her in the near future, then divorce her and demand alimony from her. Wouldn't that be cool?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sandc

Oh, your ex saw her alright. Make no mistake.


----------



## bandit.45

sandc said:


> Oh, your ex saw her alright. Make no mistake.


Someone there had to have taken a clandestine phone pic of her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sandc

bandit.45 said:


> Someone there had to have taken a clandestine phone pic of her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah. And even if they didn't, a woman would never miss taking a look at her "replacement."


----------



## bff

keko said:


> Are they living together as well? If they are, wouldn't that help you on the alimony?


I don't have any evidence of this, but then again I haven't been looking. I noticed they came in separate vehicles on Saturday, but that might just be to give the illusion that they aren't living together. My ex absolutely knows that if I find that they are living together that I will file to reduce alimony.

It's a difficult decision for me - I want to not ever think about them and truly put it all far, far behind me. But yet on principle it will bother me if they are still taking advantage of me financially, so I want to pay attention if there are signs they're cohabitating. Realistically, the OM doesn't make much money, so even if I prove they're cohabitating, the financial analysis will show that he can't contribute much to reduce her cost of living, so I doubt I could reduce alimony by very much. While I've preached the kill 'em kindness mantra, it would be at least a little emotionally gratifying to put him through the ringer of having to prove to the court that he isn't worth sh*t and can barely support himself and certainly can't support his mate.

At some level, it is just a cost/benefit analysis. Is a couple hundred bucks a month worth me NEVER having to think about it again, never having to re-engage with her/him?

And BTW, I think new gal does look like a supermodel... 

BFF


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

bff said:


> I don't have any evidence of this, but then again I haven't been looking. I noticed they came in separate vehicles on Saturday, but that might just be to give the illusion that they aren't living together. My ex absolutely knows that if I find that they are living together that I will file to reduce alimony.
> 
> It's a difficult decision for me - I want to not ever think about them and truly put it all far, far behind me. But yet on principle it will bother me if they are still taking advantage of me financially, so I want to pay attention if there are signs they're cohabitating. Realistically, the OM doesn't make much money, so even if I prove they're cohabitating, the financial analysis will show that he can't contribute much to reduce her cost of living, so I doubt I could reduce alimony by very much. While I've preached the kill 'em kindness mantra, it would be at least a little emotionally gratifying to put him through the ringer of having to prove to the court that he isn't worth sh*t and can barely support himself and certainly can't support his mate.
> 
> At some level, it is just a cost/benefit analysis. Is a couple hundred bucks a month worth me NEVER having to think about it again, never having to re-engage with her/him?
> 
> And BTW, I think new gal does look like a supermodel...
> 
> BFF


Hmmm ... peace of mind ... or the principle of the thing. If I didn't go after them, I think I would lose a little peace of mind knowing they were taking advantage of me yet again ... but would you lose more peace of mind having to deal with them again.


----------



## bandit.45

Was your STBXWW able to make eye contact with you? How did she treat you? Like her STBXH or just a guy she used to know?


----------



## bff

She is no longer STBXW, as of a couple weeks ago, she is a full-fledged ex, as the divorce is final-final as recognized by the state.

And, to answer your question, she treats me like an old friend - talked about how things were going at the event, wishing me good luck in my races, etc. It's so strange, but I'm fine with that, as it just makes dealing with her easier. And like I've said a few times on here already, I'm so incredibly happy with my "new life" that it's hard for me to continue to harbor bitterness as to the circumstances that released me from my previous hollow relationship.


----------



## verpin zal

I seem to recall that she was the one to curl up on the floor and cry the **** out of her eyes.

Ah, there we find the remorseful one, with her toy next to her, leash on his hand as an added bonus. Almost hearing her from out here, where asia and europe is bridged into one - "look bff, how well i'm coping."

That be one of the super powers cheaters possess - believing the lies they themselves tell. Supervillains, the lot of 'em I'd say.

And knowing this is way past to be a trigger for you and punching the keyboard feralessly - man. Way to handle yourself. Keep on track. Make your new woman known (and seen) to her, even.


----------



## JasonReity

wow man. I read through most of your thread and damn this hurts. can i ask some questions to better understand what happened to you?

1.) Do you think she married you for your money? (were you already rich before you met her or did you become rich (like the $200K rich) while married to her? Do you think she supported you in achieving these goals?)

2.) Did she ever apologize? Did she ever explain why she did it?

3.) Did you meet OM after you met your wife?

4.) Any signs before this that she would be a cheater like narcissism?

glad to hear you are moving on well.


----------



## bff

VZ,

I think you're right on the money, but for the OM, not my XW. She never acknowledged that she did anything wrong to me, and I don't think she feels like she has anything to prove to me. If anything, she's gone out of her way to try and pretend nothing has happened at all.

The OM, on the other hand, is a Supervillain, as you said. I think he actually understands wrong from right more than my XW does, and therefore has a NEED to rationalize it to himself and prove to the world that they two of them really do belong together, therefore his actions were completely justified in the name of love. He's always followed her around like a puppy dog. The only thing missings from that trio while he's walking the dog is the leash in her hand and the collar around his neck.

I think it is killing him that I have yet to talk to him or acknowledge his presence. I'm sure his little display of territorialism is for my benefit.


----------



## bandit.45

bff said:


> She is no longer STBXW, as of a couple weeks ago, she is a full-fledged ex, as the divorce is final-final as recognized by the state.
> 
> And, to answer your question, she treats me like an old friend - talked about how things were going at the event, wishing me good luck in my races, etc. It's so strange, but I'm fine with that, as it just makes dealing with her easier. And like I've said a few times on here already, I'm so incredibly happy with my "new life" that it's hard for me to continue to harbor bitterness as to the circumstances that released me from my previous hollow relationship.


Sorry I guess I need to pay better attention. 

Well I think you have a great attitude bff. 

And for what its worth, dont buy into her nicey nicey behavior. She knows you let her off easy, and she knows she'll never find a man as solid as you again. Don't for a minute think she left that party without a feeling of regret. 

I know you don't wish it on her, but she's slowly weaving a hell of her own making. I doubt she has learned her lesson. And those who fail to learn from their bad decisions are doomed for more pain in the future.

She has lost a huge chunk of her reputation over this. Her family and friends will forgive her and go on...but no one really forgets. As for her boyfriend....there isn't a mutual person they know who has any semblance of respect for him. He's scum, and everyone knows it. 

Your ex will wear this black mark on her for the rest of her life.


----------



## bff

JasonReity said:


> wow man. I read through most of your thread and damn this hurts. can i ask some questions to better understand what happened to you?
> 
> 1.) Do you think she married you for your money? (were you already rich before you met her or did you become rich (like the $200K rich) while married to her? Do you think she supported you in achieving these goals?)
> 
> 2.) Did she ever apologize? Did she ever explain why she did it?
> 
> 3.) Did you meet OM after you met your wife?
> 
> 4.) Any signs before this that she would be a cheater like narcissism?
> 
> glad to hear you are moving on well.


Thanks, Brother. Don't feel sorry for me, congratulate me! I'm happier now than I ever remember. Like I said, it's a f*&ked up path to happiness, but the result is the same. 

To answer your questions (all good questions, BTW)

1 - I had a good job but no assets when we got together. Good "beta potential", let's call it for you MMSLP fans. She supported me quite well through the last 10 years when I worked REALLY hard with a small company that we grew and sold to a public company and made a bunch of money in the last 18 months. I think I said before that had my XW and OM declared their undying love for each other 6 years ago and left me standing alone, I'm not sure I would have had the strength to stick with my career through that. So, in some twisted way, she "deserves" (that's a strong word, I know) at least SOME of the money, if not the half she got.

2 - She never apologized. She never explained herself. She did say via SMS when I told her I was filing for divorce, "I wish we could work things out, but I understand. You are a good person. I am not." That was as close as she came to any sort of admission of guilt.

3 - Yes. My XW and I met OM at the same time, about 7 years ago. So, he wasn't my friend who hit on my wife. I simply represented access to her from the moment he met both of us. That's clear to me now.

4 - She told me when we were dating that she was once "in love" with a married man who had a couple kids. I guess I'd call that a sign that I missed...   She has always had issues taking responsibility for anything. I probably heard the words "I'm sorry" from her maybe 3-4 times in the 12 years I've known her. She's got a super sarcastic, biting sense of humor that I really fell in love with a long time ago, and I ignored all the other issues that came along with it.


----------



## JasonReity

bff said:


> Thanks, Brother. Don't feel sorry for me, congratulate me! I'm happier now than I ever remember. Like I said, it's a f*&ked up path to happiness, but the result is the same.
> 
> To answer your questions (all good questions, BTW)
> 
> 1 - I had a good job but no assets when we got together. Good "beta potential", let's call it for you MMSLP fans. She supported me quite well through the last 10 years when I worked REALLY hard with a small company that we grew and sold to a public company and made a bunch of money in the last 18 months. I think I said before that had my XW and OM declared their undying love for each other 6 years ago and left me standing alone, I'm not sure I would have had the strength to stick with my career through that. So, in some twisted way, she "deserves" (that's a strong word, I know) at least SOME of the money, if not the half she got.
> 
> 2 - She never apologized. She never explained herself. She did say via SMS when I told her I was filing for divorce, "I wish we could work things out, but I understand. You are a good person. I am not." That was as close as she came to any sort of admission of guilt.
> 
> 3 - Yes. My XW and I met OM at the same time, about 7 years ago. So, he wasn't my friend who hit on my wife. I simply represented access to her from the moment he met both of us. That's clear to me now.
> 
> 4 - She told me when we were dating that she was once "in love" with a married man who had a couple kids. I guess I'd call that a sign that I missed...   She has always had issues taking responsibility for anything. I probably heard the words "I'm sorry" from her maybe 3-4 times in the 12 years I've known her. She's got a super sarcastic, biting sense of humor that I really fell in love with a long time ago, and I ignored all the other issues that came along with it.


MMSLP? 

when you say she supported you? you mean monetarily or with things like cooking and cleaning or both? i guess at least she did have some claim to your assets despite the f'ed up way she went about getting it.


----------



## bff

bandit.45 said:


> Sorry I guess I need to pay better attention.
> 
> Well I think you have a great attitude bff.
> 
> And for what its worth, dont buy into her nicey nicey behavior. She knows you let her off easy, and she knows she'll never find a man as solid as you again. Don't for a minute think she left that party without a feeling of regret.
> 
> I know you don't wish it on her, but she's slowly weaving a hell of her own making. I doubt she has learned her lesson. And those who fail to learn from their bad decisions are doomed for more pain in the future.
> 
> She has lost a huge chunk of her reputation over this. Her family and friends will forgive her and go on...but no one really forgets. As for her boyfriend....there isn't a mutual person they know who has any semblance of respect for him. He's scum, and everyone knows it.
> 
> Your ex will wear this black mark on her for the rest of her life.


No need to apologize. I didn't mean to imply you should have known, I was just clarifying that she was already an ex in case you were going to suggest that she might still be trying to convince me to stop the D process... ;-)

And, unfortunately for her, I think you're absolutely right. People have an enormous capacity to forgive, but forgetting is much more difficult. And OM is a scumbag, that is certain. I believe he's going to end up standing alone before too long. She's too selfish to support him for long, and he's too much of an arrogant ******* to tolerate being controlled for very long. Turbulent waters ahead!


----------



## bff

JasonReity said:


> MMSLP?
> 
> when you say she supported you? you mean monetarily or with things like cooking and cleaning or both? i guess at least she did have some claim to your assets despite the f'ed up way she went about getting it.


MMSLP = Married Man Sex Life Primer. The most important book on the face of the earth for every man to read, it just so happens to have the most unappealing title of any book on the planet. Do yourself a favor if you're married or ever want to be (and stay) married, READ IT!!!!!!!!

When I say supported me, I mean cooking, cleaning, taking care of every other little aspect of our lives so that I could work my butt off building the company into something valuable to sell. She always was emotionally supportive, too, when I was struggling with someone at work or a customer or anything like that. I am not sure I would have had the strength to do that on my own, and I'm almost positive I wouldn't have stuck with it had I had the gut-punch of the two of them betraying me then announcing it and leaving me standing alone in the middle of the tough years at work. 

In the end, I discovered the affair, I gathered the evidence, I exposed them and I made the decision to leave and then divorce. That has played a big part in how quickly I was able to emotionally recover and then soar above where I was previously.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

bff, I'm new around here, but your thread was one of the first I read. I'm glad things turned out so well for you. It's great to see a happy ending for a BS after a divorce. It gives us a little more hope for the BS's that follow. Thanks for the updates and take care.


----------



## happyman64

BFF



> In the end, I discovered the affair, I gathered the evidence, I exposed them and I made the decision to leave and then divorce. That has played a big part in how quickly I was able to emotionally recover and then soar above where I was previously.


You know the little footers that people have at the bottom of their posts.

The above should be yours. But at the end yours should say "and I have never been happier!!"

Glad you are doing well. Kill your ex with kindness. 

And treat the OM exactly how your ex treats him? As the "pooper scooper".

HM64


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## LongWalk

Read your thread. Very cool that you were able survive and flourish.

Let us know if the cohabitation factor pops in the spousal support arrangement. Eric514, also CA, is trying to get his wife to take nothing.

To find out if they are living together you could contact OM's XW.


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## doubletrouble

Just read this thread. Wish my situation was as clear cut. But I am, after reading through 80+ pages of this story, really happy for you, and you can be proud the way you have handled yourself, from what we can read here. What a ride!


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## bff

Hey friends!

Two days ago marked 1 year since I confronted, walked out and filed. And perhaps the best indicator of how well I'm doing is that the milestone passed and I forgot it was my "anniversary"!

Quick status update - I'm doing GREAT! It's almost impossible for me to believe that I tolerated so many years of sub-par living in a relationship that was so unfulfilling. I'm happier and more vibrant now than I've been in 10+ years. I've been dating my girlfriend for 6 months, now (and that's after knowing her for about 9 years in a completely different context). We're talking about the long term and have even had discussions about starting a family in due course.

I've shed a considerable amount of the stuff I had accumulated over the years, and I've gone through a refactoring of my priorities for lack of a better term. I'm not focused at all on material possessions, but rather am finding joy in spending my time and resources on enjoying weekend vacations with my GF, working out, dinners with friends, bike/motorcycle rides, etc. It really is a rebirth for me!

I've also had the opportunity to help others in similar situations. I've had two friends with wives in infidelity situations, and I've been able to apply the lessons I've learned here to support them. I also believe that I've helped to proactively save and strengthen the relationships of some of my friends by sharing with them the ideas and principles I learned in the Married Man Sex Life Primer. Chaparral, I cannot even begin to thank you enough for turning me on to this book. I've said it before - it is the best book in the world with the worst title. I truly believe that understanding it has created a great foundation for my current relationship, and I have friends who have read it who have had similar reactions... "Why don't they teach this to everyone in high school???"

Anyway, thought I'd do my one year check-in to once again thank you all for your unconditional support and tough love during a time when I really needed it. It was all worth it.

BFF


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## workindad

BFF outstanding update thanks for sharing 

Make the most of this opportunity 
WDa
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Malaise

Good news BFF

Any update on the EX?


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## Mike11

bff sorry If I ask but how is your Ex doing, I hope the Karma bus hit her hard


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## bff

Regarding the EX, no update of any significance. I suspect the OM is living with her at this point, but I couldn't possibly care less. He is a deadbeat as far as generating any income, so even if I cared enough to go after them for cohabitation, I'm sure since he provides very little in terms of financial support, it wouldn't make a difference to what I pay every month. So, I plan to just let that go.

I still see her (and him) occasionally in our shared hobby. It's not a trigger for me. We're still very cordial in dealing with financial stuff, but we are interacting even on those matters less and less frequently.

If I'm totally honest, I still occasionally feel like this has been simply too painless for the OM and am sometimes tempted to take some action to hand out justice. However, prudence and my track record of taking the high road kick in, and I once again trust that karma (whatever that is) will take care of him eventually.

BFF


----------



## happyman64

BFF

Glad you are doing well. I will not ask you about your Ex because hopefully you do not think about her at all.

I pray that your future only gets brighter, happier and fuller (children of your own).

Continued good luck and personal growth.

HM64


----------



## Jellybeans

bff said:


> Regarding the EX, no update of any significance. I suspect the OM is living with her at this point, but I couldn't possibly care less. He is a deadbeat as far as generating any income, so even if I cared enough to go after them for cohabitation, I'm sure since he provides very little in terms of financial support, it wouldn't make a difference to what I pay every month. So, I plan to just let that go.


Sounds like she picked a real winner.

Does he not work?


----------



## Mike11

bff said:


> Regarding the EX, no update of any significance. I suspect the OM is living with her at this point, but I couldn't possibly care less. He is a deadbeat as far as generating any income, so even if I cared enough to go after them for cohabitation, I'm sure since he provides very little in terms of financial support, it wouldn't make a difference to what I pay every month. So, I plan to just let that go.
> 
> I still see her (and him) occasionally in our shared hobby. It's not a trigger for me. We're still very cordial in dealing with financial stuff, but we are interacting even on those matters less and less frequently.
> 
> If I'm totally honest, I still occasionally feel like this has been simply too painless for the OM and am sometimes tempted to take some action to hand out justice. However, prudence and my track record of taking the high road kick in, and I once again trust that karma (whatever that is) will take care of him eventually.
> 
> BFF


bff

The day Karma is going to hit her will be the day she is going to hear about your newborn son or daughter or seeing you with your family in these joint events, this is when the full force of the karma will hit, her novelty with POSOM will wear out eventually and you came out of this getting the better deal 

All the best for you bff :smthumbup:


----------



## bff

Jellybeans said:


> Sounds like she picked a real winner.
> 
> Does he not work?


He works, he just outspends his income. He's a financial disaster - can't even get a credit card. He's 48 and his parents had to co-sign so he could lease a car.

My guess is that the two of them together will burn through the money she took from our marriage in just a couple years.


----------



## Jellybeans

Too bad, so sad for them.

Good riddance!


----------



## Malaise

I wish that I could trust in karma.

Sometimes karma needs a helping hand.


----------



## Acabado

Thanks for the update friend. So glad to hear from you.
It's obvious yours is a story of true sucess, the screen transpires it.

:smthumbup:


----------



## kenmoore14217

Great update BFF. SAN FRAN huh? Too bad you don't know RDMU. he could use some of your experience in his situation.


----------



## Jellybeans

I love San Francisco


----------



## MattMatt

Malaise said:


> I wish that I could trust in karma.
> 
> Sometimes karma needs a helping hand.


Yes... but I get the impression that BFF just doesn't care about them enough to be arsed to go for vengeance or to hire the karma bus and the driver.


----------



## MattMatt

BFF, so glad to hear from you and so pleased it's going well for you.


----------



## badbane

kudos Bff may your thread show that happiness can come out of sinister betrayal. BTW what kind of auto racing are you in Drag, dirt, autocross, drifting, pm me and we will talk.


----------



## LostViking

BFF I read your thread and I have to say you are a class act the way you handled this situation. 

And I agree with the others that your ex will have a comeuppance of her own making one day down the road. I think all the friendly behavior is a ruse. Deep down she knows she messed up 

It took twenty years before I got a true heartfelt apology from my first wife who cheated on me. I don't think you will have to wait that long.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

So, she is dating her "brother" ? after shamelessly cheating with him for years?

And he has the nerve to show his face around you ? This guy found his sugar mommy.

Do you think she shows any guilt during the cordial talks ?


----------



## Chaparral

Well, it may just be me, but I think the karma bus hit her when you left her and all she got was a 48 year old loser. As a matter of fact, unless she is just stupid, she is bound to see what a drain e is on her money. She will probably hang onto him for awhile just due to stubborness.

Of course many here have been happy starting the karma bus up with a kickstart from cheaterville.com.


----------



## weightlifter

Gf is Younger and hotter right?

Always good to see people win the war after a big lost battle.


----------



## bff

Does my xW show any guilt? Absolutely not. Certainly not to me.

Is my GF younger and hotter. Check and check! She's 10 years younger than my xW and waaaaay hotter. But by far the most important thing is that she and I communicate really well. I've had more constructive conversations with her, discussing what we each want/need, in the last 6 months than I had with my xW in 12 years.

BFF


----------



## LostViking

That is beyond awesome.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64

bff said:


> Does my xW show any guilt? Absolutely not. Certainly not to me.
> 
> Is my GF younger and hotter. Check and check! She's 10 years younger than my xW and waaaaay hotter. But by far the most important thing is that she and I communicate really well. I've had more constructive conversations with her, discussing what we each want/need, in the last 6 months than I had with my xW in 12 years.
> 
> BFF


You have learned one of the secrets to long term happiness.

Congrats!


----------



## weightlifter

Congrats BFF yours is one of the best examples of get thru the impossible and come out the other end better, stronger and believe it or not maybe ?In love again?


----------



## tom67

bff said:


> Does my xW show any guilt? Absolutely not. Certainly not to me.
> 
> Is my GF younger and hotter. Check and check! She's 10 years younger than my xW and waaaaay hotter. But by far the most important thing is that she and I communicate really well. I've had more constructive conversations with her, discussing what we each want/need, in the last 6 months than I had with my xW in 12 years. That is the good karma well done!
> 
> BFF


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Truthseeker1

bff said:


> Does my xW show any guilt? Absolutely not. Certainly not to me.
> 
> Is my GF younger and hotter. Check and check! She's 10 years younger than my xW and waaaaay hotter. But by far the most important thing is that she and I communicate really well. I've had more constructive conversations with her, discussing what we each want/need, in the last 6 months than I had with my xW in 12 years.
> 
> BFF


The best revenge is living well my man!! :smthumbup: Oh the 10 years younger and way hotter will drive the XW - CRAZYYYYYYY - although she will never show it to you...:rofl:


----------



## weightlifter

Truthseeker1 said:


> The best revenge is living well my man!! :smthumbup: Oh the 10 years younger and way hotter will drive the XW - CRAZYYYYYYY - although she will never show it to you...:rofl:


Quoted for truth!


----------



## LostViking

Keying his car can be satisfying too though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

Truthseeker1 said:


> The best revenge is living well my man!! :smthumbup: Oh the 10 years younger and way hotter will drive the XW - CRAZYYYYYYY - although she will never show it to you...:rofl:


Yeah, she'll probably be stalking you on FB. Post some pics, haha.


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## weightlifter

That is how to use FB for good!


----------



## livinfree

LongWalk said:


> Yeah, she'll probably be stalking you on FB. Post some pics, haha.


Her friends will email her the pics if she isn't on FB even.


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## ArmyofJuan

This is a thread noobs need to read start to finish.

Sometimes a happy ending is NOT reconciling. Many people are so afraid of change and the unknown they will stay in a bad situation until basically forced out. Sometimes the worse day of your life ends up being the beginning of a better life in the long run.

I heard this somewhere once: Suffer short term pain for long term happiness or long term pain for short term happiness. Your call.


----------



## bff

Hey gang,

While I appreciate the sentiments of how much it will bother my XW to see me with a young hottie, I'm in a very different place. I feel sorry for her - she's made some terrible decisions and the sort of selfishness she exhibits is never going to lead her to happiness. That's sad.

I have ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY no desire to hurt her. No desire to make her jealous. No desire to get even. No desire to focus even an ounce of attention on what is behind us. I have said before that I still harbor some frustration about how "easy" this has all been for the OM, and that's still there. But towards my XW... nothing.

I know it might not seem rational, but that's truly how I feel.

BFF


----------



## LostViking

Key his car. Hehe.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

LostViking said:


> Key his car. Hehe.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Evil bastage!


----------



## workindad

I know a guy who keyed his wifes OM's car. Unfortunately he did it where there was a surveillance camera. He had to pay to repaint the car of the guy banging his wife. Talk about getting fvcked. 

He said he should have looked for the cameras before hand...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bff

I can tell you from first hand experience that it isn't that hard to hide a camera...


----------



## doubletrouble

There are cameras everywhere. Best to let God sort it out instead of getting revenge yourself. 

Sounds pithy, but man, I could NOT pay for a paint job on POSOM's POS car.


----------



## weightlifter

bff said:


> I can tell you from first hand experience that it isn't that hard to hide a camera...


QFT

LOL. BFF did you know Cheaterville has an anonymous email feature?... To the right people...

Just sayin...


----------



## Shaggy

Cheaterville.com is way better than keying a car and longer lasting.


----------



## bff

Hey forum friends! It's been 7 months since I last posted, so I thought I check in to let you all know that this is STILL a wonderful story with a continuing "happy ending" that I hope never ends. My GF moved in with me in November. We took a few months off work and traveled all over the world. I believe an engagement may be on the horizon... ;-)

I rarely see my xW anymore, but I'm still dealing with her on financial matters for another few years (the term of my alimony was just over 4 years). No triggers remain of any sort. It doesn't even bother me when I have to write the checks, anymore. I just think about how much happier I am now and the incredible trajectory I'm on. WORTH IT!

I still think about what a god-send this forum and you all were for me in a time of confusion and need. Your guidance and advice literally saved my life. I can't say it enough - THANKS!

bff


----------



## tom67

bff said:


> Hey forum friends! It's been 7 months since I last posted, so I thought I check in to let you all know that this is STILL a wonderful story with a continuing "happy ending" that I hope never ends. My GF moved in with me in November. We took a few months off work and traveled all over the world. I believe an engagement may be on the horizon... ;-)
> 
> I rarely see my xW anymore, but I'm still dealing with her on financial matters for another few years (the term of my alimony was just over 4 years). No triggers remain of any sort. It doesn't even bother me when I have to write the checks, anymore. I just think about how much happier I am now and the incredible trajectory I'm on. WORTH IT!
> 
> I still think about what a god-send this forum and you all were for me in a time of confusion and need. Your guidance and advice literally saved my life. I can't say it enough - THANKS!
> 
> bff


Great news glad you are not looking back but moving forward.
Thanks for checking in.


----------



## happyman64

:iagree:

bff

Glad you are happy. Never look back.

Your future lies in front of you.

HM


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

bff said:


> Hey forum friends! It's been 7 months since I last posted, so I thought I check in to let you all know that this is STILL a wonderful story with a continuing "happy ending" that I hope never ends. My GF moved in with me in November. We took a few months off work and traveled all over the world. I believe an engagement may be on the horizon... ;-)
> 
> I rarely see my xW anymore, but I'm still dealing with her on financial matters for another few years (the term of my alimony was just over 4 years). No triggers remain of any sort. It doesn't even bother me when I have to write the checks, anymore. I just think about how much happier I am now and the incredible trajectory I'm on. WORTH IT!
> 
> I still think about what a god-send this forum and you all were for me in a time of confusion and need. Your guidance and advice literally saved my life. I can't say it enough - THANKS!
> 
> bff


Another BS posting back and only mentioning his ex-WS as a side bar. Talking about how good things are with his life and new gal.

We haven't had a week like this in a long time.

BFF, thanks for the update. It was nice to here from you again and on such a positive note.

Take care.


----------



## manticore

glad to read about you man, I read your story for first time almost when you stopped posting 7 months ago, I am happy to hear that you have completely moved on and you are now with a person who respects you and with who you can even consider again the idea of marriage.

just remember that a prenup is not a bad idea for whatever happens in the future.


----------



## WyshIknew

BFF, along with Shamwow one of the legends of TAM.

There are several threads that should be required reading and yours is one of them.

Not an accolade you wanted obviously but you played the cards you were given and turned them into a royal flush.


----------



## Chaparral

Thanks for the update, you would probably be surprised how many times posters have been encouraged to read your thread.

Good luck


----------



## manticore

BTW: I would have liked to see the face of your XW when she found about the hottie that is now with you. I know, I know, you already left all of that behind you (and that shows that you have really moved on) but still to see the moment when reality hits and she realizes how she exchanged a winner for cheating loser it would have been nice.


----------



## thummper

Bff, I just came across your thread today. I love the way you handled the whole situation. Just for myself, I hope your ex is realizing what a huge mistake she made in leaving you for the POSOM. If it was me, I'd flaunt my lovely new sweetie in front of her just to let her know I could get someone beautiful to want me. Be happy. They say "happiness is the best revenge." Be well. Enjoy your life. :smthumbup:


----------



## Philat

bff said:


> Hey forum friends! It's been 7 months since I last posted, so I thought I check in to let you all know that this is STILL a wonderful story with a continuing "happy ending" that I hope never ends. My GF moved in with me in November. We took a few months off work and traveled all over the world. I believe an engagement may be on the horizon... ;-)
> 
> I rarely see my xW anymore, but I'm still dealing with her on financial matters for another few years (the term of my alimony was just over 4 years). No triggers remain of any sort. It doesn't even bother me when I have to write the checks, anymore. I just think about how much happier I am now and the incredible trajectory I'm on. WORTH IT!
> 
> I still think about what a god-send this forum and you all were for me in a time of confusion and need. Your guidance and advice literally saved my life. I can't say it enough - THANKS!
> 
> bff


:toast:


----------



## Graywolf2

bff said:


> My GF moved in with me in November. We took a few months off work and traveled all over the world. I believe an engagement may be on the horizon... ;-)


I'm glad that you're doing so well. Please get a prenup.


I just discovered this thread. I know it is ancient history, but what would your ex-wife have done if by some miracle she had gotten pregnant during the affair? I think she was relieved when she didn’t have to discuss things. You were about to adopt a child.


----------



## weightlifter

Pure awesomeness


----------



## WhiteRaven

bff- The Legend.


----------



## tom67

Please get a prenup

This^^^


----------



## COguy

Congrats brother. Glad your life is doing good and you turned a negative into a positive.

Seconding the mandatory prenup


----------



## LongWalk

Bff,

Any update on your hobby? Did POSOM lose his customers?

Is ex still active in it?

Your thread is a classic, an unforgettable journey to the truth. I can understand why you are indifferent to your ex, not hating her. She must have suffered a lot. Her reputation could not have been too good. She had to sell the dream house, right?

And most of all, she never had the baby.


----------



## bff

Hey Gang,

Thanks for the encouraging words. As for "the hobby" - I've walked away from that. The xW and POSOM are still very active in it, though, according to several friends who feel it's important to keep me posted... ;-)

I've moved on and have many other more productive priorities in my life, many of those I happen to share with my GF.

I won't argue the point of a pre-nup, but that's just not me. California law allows for what I bring to the marriage to be mine and only mine, and what is acquired during the marriage to be shared. Believe it or not, that sounds fair to me. 

Anyway, I love all of you and for those who have gleaned even the smallest bit of encouragement, wisdom or hope from my story and my thread.... well that makes me happy.

bff


----------



## tom67

bff said:


> Hey Gang,
> 
> Thanks for the encouraging words. As for "the hobby" - I've walked away from that. The xW and POSOM are still very active in it, though, according to several friends who feel it's important to keep me posted... ;-)
> 
> I've moved on and have many other more productive priorities in my life, many of those I happen to share with my GF.
> 
> I won't argue the point of a pre-nup, but that's just not me. California law allows for what I bring to the marriage to be mine and only mine, and what is acquired during the marriage to be shared. Believe it or not, that sounds fair to me.
> 
> Anyway, I love all of you and for those who have gleaned even the smallest bit of encouragement, wisdom or hope from my story and my thread.... well that makes me happy.
> 
> bff


Okay well then
Go make some kids


----------



## GusPolinski

tom67 said:


> Okay well then
> Go make some kids


...and make sure that xW is well aware of their arrival.

Too cruel? Maybe, but I'd sure as f*ck do it.


----------



## Ripper

So OP's wife cheats for 7 out of 10 years and still walks away with assets and years of spousal support. Apparently, in California, not only is Lady Justice blind, but also a deaf mute.

Basically, OP had four choices:
a) Lead a revolution against the government.
b) Flee to a non-extradition treaty county.
c) Wallow in self-pity
d) Pay no notice because he was too busy being awesome.

Fortunately for this story OP choose option D.


----------



## weightlifter

How many years alimony?


----------



## bff

Just under 5 years of alimony, half the term of the marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WhiteRaven

bff said:


> Just under 5 years of alimony, half the term of the marriage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank the Lord there were no kids. Just think about the alimony as paying an overpriced hooker in installments for her 'services'.


----------



## bff

Well gang, I think the time has finally come to put this thread to rest for good.

I got married two weeks ago and my wife and I are expecting a baby boy near the end of the year!!! This is a great conclusion for the previous chapter of my life and the perfect start to the next. 

I will say it one last time: THANK YOU TAM FAMILY!!!! I often look back with incredible appreciation for all the advice, tough love and support I got here. It really made all the difference and allowed me to make the bold moves I needed to make to move from a life of simple existence in a hollow relationship to a whole new world of fulfilling love and appreciation with my girl.

And before anyone says it:

- No prenup. I was smart in how I have segregated my finances and the money I'm bringing into the marriage will sit aside and be there for us for retirement or for me should anything terrible happen before then.

- I have already told my ex-wife about my recent remarriage and impending child. She was happy for me and wished us both congratulations and the best.

Mission Accomplished.

bff


----------



## jim123

bff said:


> Well gang, I think the time has finally come to put this thread to rest for good.
> 
> I got married two weeks ago and my wife and I are expecting a baby boy near the end of the year!!! This is a great conclusion for the previous chapter of my life and the perfect start to the next.
> 
> I will say it one last time: THANK YOU TAM FAMILY!!!! I often look back with incredible appreciation for all the advice, tough love and support I got here. It really made all the difference and allowed me to make the bold moves I needed to make to move from a life of simple existence in a hollow relationship to a whole new world of fulfilling love and appreciation with my girl.
> 
> And before anyone says it:
> 
> - No prenup. I was smart in how I have segregated my finances and the money I'm bringing into the marriage will sit aside and be there for us for retirement or for me should anything terrible happen before then.
> 
> - I have already told my ex-wife about my recent remarriage and impending child. She was happy for me and wished us both congratulations and the best.
> 
> Mission Accomplished.
> 
> bff


Very happy for you. Your story can teach how to be strong


----------



## aug

a baby and an new marriage, what more can you ask for?


----------



## Mike11

Amazing ending to an Epic Story bff, Happy for you and Congratulations on your marriage and child, this is the best outcome one can expect, and this is one of the very few stories of personal triumph and perseverance that one can read on TAM and use as an example, Well Done bff


----------



## Ripper

Awesome!

“Fairy tales are more than true: not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten.”
― Neil Gaiman, Coraline 

I don't know what else to say. Good luck OP, and have a happy future.


----------



## manticore

congratz, you have really move on to a better life, and in 4 more years you will be able to cut any reamaining contact with the xw and completly erase all trace of them of your life.


----------



## WhiteRaven

Amen!


----------



## MattMatt

Thank you for the update. I was thinking about you only the other evening.

So glad this is the outcome.


----------



## LongWalk

I am going to add your thread to the CWI classics list.


----------



## happyman64

I am glad you chose happiness BFF.

Good Luck!

HM


----------



## Acabado

Incredible journey!

Good Luck BFF!


----------



## Chaparral

Having a child will be wonderful. Make the best dad you can.. Be a strong dad, kind gentle............and rough when necessary. Lol

There are three things you can't tell people about and get a true meaning conveyed. Sex, education and having kids. Unless you experience it, you cat understand it. I'm sure there are other things too. Haha

I've had friends that decided not to have kids. They don't know it but I pity them so much. I'm guessing you will thank your ww and ex friend for freeing you up so you can lead this new life...........if you haven't already done that.


----------



## weightlifter

I hope you dont mean delete! This is an inspiring story. This shoud be hall of fame and stickied!


----------



## Malaise

True. It's inspirational.


----------



## bff

Thanks, everyone. No, I don't mean we should delete it. If it helps just one person to make a better decision or realize that finding out your spouse isn't the person you thought doesn't have to be the end of the world, then we should leave it up.

bff


----------



## See_Listen_Love

I reread your posts only and you are a wonderful example for many people. You managed to keep a positive way of thinking and acting right through devastating circumstances. 

:allhail:


Please keep this thread up!


----------



## Truthseeker1

bff said:


> Well gang, I think the time has finally come to put this thread to rest for good.
> 
> I got married two weeks ago and my wife and I are expecting a baby boy near the end of the year!!! This is a great conclusion for the previous chapter of my life and the perfect start to the next.
> 
> I will say it one last time: THANK YOU TAM FAMILY!!!! I often look back with incredible appreciation for all the advice, tough love and support I got here. It really made all the difference and allowed me to make the bold moves I needed to make to move from a life of simple existence in a hollow relationship to a whole new world of fulfilling love and appreciation with my girl.
> 
> And before anyone says it:
> 
> - No prenup. I was smart in how I have segregated my finances and the money I'm bringing into the marriage will sit aside and be there for us for retirement or for me should anything terrible happen before then.
> 
> - I have already told my ex-wife about my recent remarriage and impending child. She was happy for me and wished us both congratulations and the best.
> 
> Mission Accomplished.
> 
> bff


Congratulations! Sometimes the road to happiness takes us straight through hell. You made it!!! :smthumbup:


----------



## X-B

BFF deserves a standing ovation. Great job.


----------



## bff

What am I thankful for today? How about the birth of my son last week!?!? 

It's been a wild ride, TAM family, but the "ending" just keeps getting happier and happier. Mother and son are doing great, and I'm enjoying my new role as dad.

I recount and am thankful for, EVERY day, what a turnaround I've had in the last two years. 

For anyone who is going through tough times, please know that it can get better. Not just better than it is at the bottom, but better than it's ever been! Don't get caught up in the poison of holding onto anger. Let it go, and move on.

I wish the absolute best to all of you. 

BFF


----------



## happyman64

Awesome news BFF. Thanks for the update.

You could not ask for a better holiday present than that.

HM


----------



## See_Listen_Love

bff said:


> For anyone who is going through tough times, please know that it can get better. Not just better than it is at the bottom, but better than it's ever been! _Don't get caught up in the poison of holding onto anger. Let it go, and move on.
> _
> I wish the absolute best to all of you.
> 
> BFF


Wise words! 

Hard to perform, but good. Motivating each other is a valid way to enhance situations. Google on self-effacacy.


----------



## Malaise

Congratulations!


----------



## warlock07

Kind a still curious on what happened to the house ?


----------



## warlock07

> I have ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY no desire to hurt her. No desire to make her jealous. No desire to get even. No desire to focus even an ounce of attention on what is behind us. I have said before that I still harbor some frustration about how "easy" this has all been for the OM, and that's still there. But towards my XW... nothing.


Fantastic guy bff, isn't he ?


----------



## bff

warlock07 said:


> Kind a still curious on what happened to the house ?


She bought me out of the house she was living in (which we had just bought) by giving me half our downpayment and was able to secure a mortgage for it. So, she has that house and is living in it. Real estate around here is INSANE so she's probably made a couple hundred grand in equity already. 

The house we had just moved out of, the one I moved into for several months, we sold above our asking price and split the proceeds.

All's well.

BFF


----------



## ConanHub

Just read through most of this thread. I honestly hate your ex and OM but I am glad you are so free.

This was a gut churning tale with a pleasant outcome. Very interesting read. I wish you and your new family great happiness, which you already have, and I wish genital warts on the cheaters. But, I am more vindictive than you. Probably less happy overall as well. Maybe I could learn a few things here.

Regardless, thank you for sharing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## thatbpguy

Just read the entire thread.

Wow.

Glad you came out on top!!


----------



## thenub

What an awesome ending to a sad story. When you fill out the alimony checks, in the little memo box just write in.... "Worth it"


----------



## leon1

Great to see it turn out so well for you . It must hurt your ex to see you so happily married with a little baby now to .


----------



## happyman64

BFF

Did your EX stay with the OM?

Just curious.

HM


----------



## bff

As far as I know, yes. They have been very careful about cohabitation, since that would lower my alimony payment. But, we have enough common friends that I've heard they're still "together". 

Another interesting thing someone told me very recently is that the OM has "changed" and isn't the same old tough guy he was before but is running around at her beck and call as her bee-atch. That actually made me smile. As I've said before, it's really the OM that seemed to have come out ahead in all of this, but maybe now... not so much? 

My only contact with XW is on financial matters around alimony.

BFF


----------



## happyman64

That was why I was asking.

I hope she marries the @ss.

They deserve each other.

Glad you are happy. In life that is all that matters.

HM


----------



## GusPolinski

Just wondering... in terms of alimony, for how much longer are you on the hook?


----------



## bff

I've been debating about disclosing everything that's gone on recently with my XW. It's relatively negative, and I just want to put it all behind me. But, since I've been very open with everything else, I might as well put it out there so the story is "complete".

Quick recap - late last year my now-wife and I both left our jobs to travel for several months so that we could "accelerate" our relationship and get down to starting a family quickly. That worked out GREAT, btw! 

Anyway, when we were done traveling, I got a new job in May. The job I left had a somewhat inflated salary because they acquired my company and were trying to retain me. When I got two separate raises in that job in the 18 months since the divorce, we recalculated alimony and I paid more. The new job I got is still a VERY good paying job, but it pays considerably less than my previous job. I figured, probably pretty naively, that it wouldn't be controversial for me to request a small reduction in alimony. To give a frame of reference, I am making $4k less per month and proposed paying her only $400 less per month for the remaining almost 3 years of support. That reduction would be smaller when I got a raise which I'm sure I will. So, I was proposing about $14k less BEFORE TAXES over TWO YEARS. Not much money to her (or me) given how much more she got in support because of my raises over the last two years.

Well, you would have thought I'd suggested we sacrifice her cats on a alter or something. Not only did she (and her attorney) not agree to the reduction, forcing me to file a court motion, they came after me for MORE support than I was paying! It got relatively ugly (I'll spare you the details) and I could have just retracted my motion, since it became clear that my legal fees were going to cost more than it would cost me just to continue to pay support at the current level. 

However, I decided that she had taken advantage of me long enough and I was NOT going to back down. I had the full support of my wife in this decision.

To make a long story short, the court found completely in my favor, and reduced the support I'm paying her by almost 3 times the reduction I was requesting! For me, it was a wash - what I've saved in alimony I gave to my attorney in fees. For the XW, she is out more than what I proposed AND all of her legal fees plus the feeling of losing "a fight" to me.

I gotta tell you, in the days before the court hearing, I was starting to regret my decision to go through with the motion. It was affecting me emotionally, the injustice of it all, that she could come after me like that. I was starting to bring some of that stress home to my then-pregnant wife, which wasn't fair to her. And, there was a risk the court would find in her favor and she could have gotten more support or even a piece of my stock options in my new company.

But, in the end, I'm VERY happy that I stayed the course and stood my ground. It all ended in my favor and it feels good to not just once again give in to avoid a confrontation with her.

I hope she learned an important lesson to not attempt to over-reach what is fair, and this will be the last flare-up before I'm done writing checks to her for good in 2.5 years.

BFF


----------



## thatbpguy

bff said:


> I've been debating about disclosing everything that's gone on recently with my XW. It's relatively negative, and I just want to put it all behind me. But, since I've been very open with everything else, I might as well put it out there so the story is "complete".
> 
> Quick recap - late last year my now-wife and I both left our jobs to travel for several months so that we could "accelerate" our relationship and get down to starting a family quickly. That worked out GREAT, btw!
> 
> Anyway, when we were done traveling, I got a new job in May. The job I left had a somewhat inflated salary because they acquired my company and were trying to retain me. When I got two separate raises in that job in the 18 months since the divorce, we recalculated alimony and I paid more. The new job I got is still a VERY good paying job, but it pays considerably less than my previous job. I figured, probably pretty naively, that it wouldn't be controversial for me to request a small reduction in alimony. To give a frame of reference, I am making $4k less per month and proposed paying her only $400 less per month for the remaining almost 3 years of support. That reduction would be smaller when I got a raise which I'm sure I will. So, I was proposing about $14k less BEFORE TAXES over TWO YEARS. Not much money to her (or me) given how much more she got in support because of my raises over the last two years.
> 
> Well, you would have thought I'd suggested we sacrifice her cats on a alter or something. Not only did she (and her attorney) not agree to the reduction, forcing me to file a court motion, they came after me for MORE support than I was paying! It got relatively ugly (I'll spare you the details) and I could have just retracted my motion, since it became clear that my legal fees were going to cost more than it would cost me just to continue to pay support at the current level.
> 
> However, I decided that she had taken advantage of me long enough and I was NOT going to back down. I had the full support of my wife in this decision.
> 
> To make a long story short, the court found completely in my favor, and reduced the support I'm paying her by almost 3 times the reduction I was requesting! For me, it was a wash - what I've saved in alimony I gave to my attorney in fees. For the XW, she is out more than what I proposed AND all of her legal fees plus the feeling of losing "a fight" to me.
> 
> I gotta tell you, in the days before the court hearing, I was starting to regret my decision to go through with the motion. It was affecting me emotionally, the injustice of it all, that she could come after me like that. I was starting to bring some of that stress home to my then-pregnant wife, which wasn't fair to her. And, there was a risk the court would find in her favor and she could have gotten more support or even a piece of my stock options in my new company.
> 
> But, in the end, I'm VERY happy that I stayed the course and stood my ground. It all ended in my favor and it feels good to not just once again give in to avoid a confrontation with her.
> 
> I hope she learned an important lesson to not attempt to over-reach what is fair, and this will be the last flare-up before I'm done writing checks to her for good in 2.5 years.
> 
> BFF


Greedy ex.


----------



## GusPolinski

bff said:


> I've been debating about disclosing everything that's gone on recently with my XW. It's relatively negative, and I just want to put it all behind me. But, since I've been very open with everything else, I might as well put it out there so the story is "complete".
> 
> Quick recap - late last year my now-wife and I both left our jobs to travel for several months so that we could "accelerate" our relationship and get down to starting a family quickly. That worked out GREAT, btw!
> 
> Anyway, when we were done traveling, I got a new job in May. The job I left had a somewhat inflated salary because they acquired my company and were trying to retain me. When I got two separate raises in that job in the 18 months since the divorce, we recalculated alimony and I paid more. The new job I got is still a VERY good paying job, but it pays considerably less than my previous job. I figured, probably pretty naively, that it wouldn't be controversial for me to request a small reduction in alimony. To give a frame of reference, I am making $4k less per month and proposed paying her only $400 less per month for the remaining almost 3 years of support. That reduction would be smaller when I got a raise which I'm sure I will. So, I was proposing about $14k less BEFORE TAXES over TWO YEARS. Not much money to her (or me) given how much more she got in support because of my raises over the last two years.
> 
> Well, you would have thought I'd suggested we sacrifice her cats on a alter or something. Not only did she (and her attorney) not agree to the reduction, forcing me to file a court motion, they came after me for MORE support than I was paying! It got relatively ugly (I'll spare you the details) and I could have just retracted my motion, since it became clear that my legal fees were going to cost more than it would cost me just to continue to pay support at the current level.
> 
> However, I decided that she had taken advantage of me long enough and I was NOT going to back down. I had the full support of my wife in this decision.
> 
> To make a long story short, the court found completely in my favor, and reduced the support I'm paying her by almost 3 times the reduction I was requesting! For me, it was a wash - what I've saved in alimony I gave to my attorney in fees. For the XW, she is out more than what I proposed AND all of her legal fees plus the feeling of losing "a fight" to me.
> 
> I gotta tell you, in the days before the court hearing, I was starting to regret my decision to go through with the motion. It was affecting me emotionally, the injustice of it all, that she could come after me like that. I was starting to bring some of that stress home to my then-pregnant wife, which wasn't fair to her. And, there was a risk the court would find in her favor and she could have gotten more support or even a piece of my stock options in my new company.
> 
> But, in the end, I'm VERY happy that I stayed the course and stood my ground. It all ended in my favor and it feels good to not just once again give in to avoid a confrontation with her.
> 
> I hope she learned an important lesson to not attempt to over-reach what is fair, and this will be the last flare-up before I'm done writing checks to her for good in 2.5 years.
> 
> BFF


Dude...

NICELY DONE!!! :smthumbup:

:allhail:

And about any prospective raises... I'd ask the boss to hold any pay increases "in escrow" until after that last check has been cashed.


----------



## warlock07

Yeah, the affair was not a mistake that went on for too long. She just is a ****ty person.

This woman has absolutely no shame or a speck of integrity. Just more disappointment, isn't it?


----------



## warlock07

Does she have a serious career now ?


----------



## happyman64

warlock07 said:


> Does she have a serious career now ?


Selfish Biotch, Wayward ExWife, 

I think those qualify as her careers.

But on a serious note:

Just glad you stuck it out and hopefully taught her a lesson BFF.

When a person becomes that entitled and selfish there needs to be a clean line drawn in the sand.

I hope her Mom is proud of her now.......

Your new wife sounds like a doll. Now get your Mojo rocking and keep adding to the family.

HM


----------



## warlock07

Can't help but think that she probably was lashing out using the only opportunity she had.

She probably is pissed off that you remarried and are having kids with your new wife and happily putting her in the past,while she is stuck with the dependent leech of an OM(The affair is probably not as exciting now) and if she wanted kids with him, fertility treatments.


----------



## bff

warlock07 said:


> Can't help but think that she probably was lashing out using the only opportunity she had.
> 
> She probably is pissed off that you remarried and are having kids with your new wife and happily putting her in the past,while she is stuck with the dependent leech of an OM(The affair is probably not as exciting now) and if she wanted kids with him, fertility treatments.


This. 100%.

If she has any emotions at all (and I honestly don't have concrete evidence that she does), effectively losing her opportunity to be a mother has to be the thing that hurts her the most when she looks back at all that's transpired. She replaced me with the ********* OM and a puppy, but ending the adoption had to really hurt. And she's 47 now, so even fertility treatments are pretty much a pipe dream given her track record so far when she was 7 years younger and I can't imagine her "story" is going to be palatable to mothers giving their kids up for adoption. She's going to have to just be satisfied with the leech OM as her only dependent.

Seeing me move on and realize "her" dream has to hurt, and yes, I'm certain that played into her actions. There wasn't really enough money on the table to warrant her actions, so there had to be other motivation.

BFF


----------



## warlock07

> and I honestly don't have concrete evidence that she does















> As far as I know, yes. They have been very careful about cohabitation, since that would lower my alimony payment. But, we have enough common friends that I've heard they're still "together".


How much more would it reduce if you can prove that they are co-habiting ?

I'm guessing not much.


----------



## bff

warlock07 said:


> How much more would it reduce if you can prove that they are co-habiting ?
> 
> I'm guessing not much.


I'm guessing you're right. He doesn't make that much money and has a couple daughters in college, so I imagine he has little to contribute to "the household". 

I can only reduce support based on how much her expenses go down because he's living there. Her expenses probably would go UP with the deadbeat there leeching off of her, so the legal fees to pursue it wouldn't be worth it. And I've got more important things to focus on now, anyway! 

BFF


----------



## weightlifter

BFF. Hope you don't mind me pointing your story to others as a story of full recovery. The latest being Frankman over in general board. He seems pretty down ATM. He kind of reminds me of you in some ways. Pretty strong reaction. No disastrous betaness etc. not perfect but not horrid.


----------



## bff

weightlifter said:


> BFF. Hope you don't mind me pointing your story to others as a story of full recovery.


If it can help anyone at all (like Shamwow's thread did for me) then I'm happy for you to reference it. This forum is an incredible resource, and I think each person will have to find the thread(s) that resonate with their own situation.

BFF


----------



## thatbpguy

I can't help but wonder if the plan all along for her was to marry someone who would keep her from being trailer trash. If it worked out, fine. If it didn't, Californicaton has those darling community property laws and problem solved.


----------



## ifweonly

Well BFF, I cannot add any new intelligent comments to what has already been posted. My heart goes out to you for the trek that you have been forced to experience.

My only comment is that not all marriages (yes, I know of the statics) experience the extra outside sex as your ex was doing for such a long time. I admire your resolve in exterminating this blight from your life; I am also sorry for being blunt but your ex is sooo stupid! 

Fortunately, infidelity is not an issue in my marriage but I really wish you all of the many Great Things that a loyal relationship has to offer. And for crying out loud BFF, take time to get some really good pu**y on a regular basis. Men just need it for good prostate health!:smthumbup:


----------



## Wolfman1968

bff said:


> I've been debating about disclosing everything that's gone on recently with my XW. It's relatively negative, and I just want to put it all behind me. But, since I've been very open with everything else, I might as well put it out there so the story is "complete".
> 
> Quick recap - late last year my now-wife and I both left our jobs to travel for several months so that we could "accelerate" our relationship and get down to starting a family quickly. That worked out GREAT, btw!
> 
> Anyway, when we were done traveling, I got a new job in May. The job I left had a somewhat inflated salary because they acquired my company and were trying to retain me. When I got two separate raises in that job in the 18 months since the divorce, we recalculated alimony and I paid more. The new job I got is still a VERY good paying job, but it pays considerably less than my previous job. I figured, probably pretty naively, that it wouldn't be controversial for me to request a small reduction in alimony. To give a frame of reference, I am making $4k less per month and proposed paying her only $400 less per month for the remaining almost 3 years of support. That reduction would be smaller when I got a raise which I'm sure I will. So, I was proposing about $14k less BEFORE TAXES over TWO YEARS. Not much money to her (or me) given how much more she got in support because of my raises over the last two years.
> 
> Well, you would have thought I'd suggested we sacrifice her cats on a alter or something. Not only did she (and her attorney) not agree to the reduction, forcing me to file a court motion, they came after me for MORE support than I was paying! It got relatively ugly (I'll spare you the details) and I could have just retracted my motion, since it became clear that my legal fees were going to cost more than it would cost me just to continue to pay support at the current level.
> 
> However, I decided that she had taken advantage of me long enough and I was NOT going to back down. I had the full support of my wife in this decision.
> 
> To make a long story short, the court found completely in my favor, and reduced the support I'm paying her by almost 3 times the reduction I was requesting! For me, it was a wash - what I've saved in alimony I gave to my attorney in fees. For the XW, she is out more than what I proposed AND all of her legal fees plus the feeling of losing "a fight" to me.
> 
> I gotta tell you, in the days before the court hearing, I was starting to regret my decision to go through with the motion. It was affecting me emotionally, the injustice of it all, that she could come after me like that. I was starting to bring some of that stress home to my then-pregnant wife, which wasn't fair to her. And, there was a risk the court would find in her favor and she could have gotten more support or even a piece of my stock options in my new company.
> 
> But, in the end, I'm VERY happy that I stayed the course and stood my ground. It all ended in my favor and it feels good to not just once again give in to avoid a confrontation with her.
> 
> I hope she learned an important lesson to not attempt to over-reach what is fair, and this will be the last flare-up before I'm done writing checks to her for good in 2.5 years.
> 
> BFF


Love it!


----------



## Ripper

bff said:


> She replaced me with the ********* OM and a puppy, but ending the adoption had to really hurt. And she's 47 now, so even fertility treatments are pretty much a pipe dream given her track record so far when she was 7 years younger and I can't imagine her "story" is going to be palatable to mothers giving their kids up for adoption. She's going to have to just be satisfied with the leech OM as her only dependent.


This schadenfreude is delicious. Thank you.

The affair and her attempt to sodomize you with alimony convinces me that she would love nothing more than to see you wallow in misery. What an absolutely loathsome creature she has become. Hopefully you will never see/hear from her again once the alimony payments are done.

Living well is the best revenge (and sometimes only) one can have.


----------



## bff

Ripper said:


> This schadenfreude is delicious. Thank you.
> 
> The affair and her attempt to sodomize you with alimony convinces me that *she would love nothing more than to see you wallow in misery.* What an absolutely loathsome creature she has become. Hopefully you will never see/hear from her again once the alimony payments are done.
> 
> Living well is the best revenge (and sometimes only) one can have.


I agree with everything except the bolded part. I'm still convinced that her primary motivations are selfish in nature. I don't think she cares if I'm happy or not as long as she gets her "share" of the money. That being said, I'm sure it does pain her to see me have the things she wanted... 

I just realized that I left one thing out of the story that also could have been a motivation for her to be more aggressive these past couple months in seeking support. 

As part of our original settlement agreement, we set an income cap for me that above which she no longer gets any part of the income. So, if I were to win the lottery for $20m, she would still only get at most about $150k in support. This is relatively common, as the point of the California laws is to try to maintain the marital standard of living, not have someone benefit from a windfall to the other party. Likewise, if she were to win the lottery, it would only zero out my support obligation to her - she wouldn't have to pay me anything.

So, at the end of 2013, I had a very good year income-wise and was very close to my "cap". So, I sold a bunch of stock in my former company in the second half of December. This meant that almost all of the proceeds were above the cap and she got no part of it. I don't think she realized the implications of this at the time, but her attorney clearly pointed it out to her recently and actually tried to make this point in court - implying that I should have waited until January to sell my stock so that my XW could get a piece of it (would have amounted to well over $50k)!! Can you imagine?? I'm supposed to act in HER best interest instead of my own?? But like I said, their arguments were so one sided and over-reaching that the judge saw it for what it was - pure greed.

BFF


----------



## soccermom2three

BFF, yours was one of the first posts I read here. I glad you found happiness. Enjoy your new little family.


----------



## GusPolinski

bff said:


> I agree with everything except the bolded part. I'm still convinced that her primary motivations are selfish in nature. I don't think she cares if I'm happy or not as long as she gets her "share" of the money. That being said, I'm sure it does pain her to see me have the things she wanted...
> 
> I just realized that I left one thing out of the story that also could have been a motivation for her to be more aggressive these past couple months in seeking support.
> 
> As part of our original settlement agreement, we set an income cap for me that above which she no longer gets any part of the income. So, if I were to win the lottery for $20m, she would still only get at most about $150k in support. This is relatively common, *as the point of the California laws is to try to maintain the marital standard of living*, not have someone benefit from a windfall to the other party. Likewise, if she were to win the lottery, it would only zero out my support obligation to her - she wouldn't have to pay me anything.
> 
> So, at the end of 2013, I had a very good year income-wise and was very close to my "cap". So, I sold a bunch of stock in my former company in the second half of December. This meant that almost all of the proceeds were above the cap and she got no part of it. I don't think she realized the implications of this at the time, but her attorney clearly pointed it out to her recently and actually tried to make this point in court - implying that I should have waited until January to sell my stock so that my XW could get a piece of it (would have amounted to well over $50k)!! Can you imagine?? I'm supposed to act in HER best interest instead of my own?? But like I said, their arguments were so one sided and over-reaching that the judge saw it for what it was - pure greed.
> 
> BFF


Sorry, but a BS should be in no way obligated to maintain his or her WS's standard of living... ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE ARE NO CHILDREN INVOLVED!!! What a bunch of bullsh*t!

End rant (for now)...


----------



## tom67

GusPolinski said:


> Sorry, but a BS should be in no way obligated to maintain his or her WS's standard of living... ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE ARE NO CHILDREN INVOLVED!!! What a bunch of bullsh*t!
> 
> End rant (for now)...


:iagree::iagree:
He has a great life now.


----------



## bff

GusPolinski said:


> Sorry, but a BS should be in no way obligated to maintain his or her WS's standard of living... ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE ARE NO CHILDREN INVOLVED!!! What a bunch of bullsh*t!
> 
> End rant (for now)...


To be clear up front, I am NOT an advocate for California's laws as they stand for the exact reason you state above. Now, that being said, I do want to point out one very important upside, or silver lining or whatever you want to call it, to true "no fault" divorce laws. That upside is that, when there are no kids involved, you do not have to spend any time with attorneys or in court trying to assign, assess or apportion blame on each other. You simply divide up the assets and come to agreement on duration and amount of support based on some pretty simple rules.

Personally, although financially it was painful for me to "give" my XW all that I've had to and continue to give her in $$ terms, avoiding that legal and court battle was worth it to me. I think back about how much longer I would have had to stay in the hollow marriage while I hired PI's to "gather evidence" - and then to have to stand there in court as they read off and show pictures of her meeting up with, kissing, ****ing and whatever else with the OM; well I'm not sure I could have moved on with such a healthy positive outlook if I had gone through that. 

While my XW admitted the affair to me when I confronted her and bluffed about how much I knew, I seriously doubt she would have admitted that in court. It would have been a BATTLE.

Anyway, that's just another thing to consider, no matter how unjust it seems that a lying, cheating WS collects checks each month for years and years.

BFF


----------



## MattMatt

I wonder? Is this the only way she can punish you for moving on? Moving on and getting your new wife pregnant?

See, that's not how it was supposed to be! She and OM were supposed to be happy together and you were supposed to be in perpetual misery, all by yourself.

Maybe she'd help you out by finding a friend of hers who she would arrange for you to date?

Her friend who looks like this, maybe?









And then you ruin it all and her Great and Terrible Plan fell to pieces.

So she had to punish you.


----------



## tom67

MattMatt said:


> I wonder? Is this the only way she can punish you for moving on? Moving on and getting your new wife pregnant?
> 
> See, that's not how it was supposed to be! She and OM were supposed to be happy together and you were supposed to be in perpetual misery, all by yourself.
> 
> Maybe she'd help you out by finding a friend of hers who she would arrange for you to date?
> 
> Her friend who looks like this, maybe?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And then you ruin it all and her Great and Terrible Plan fell to pieces.
> 
> So she had to punish you.


:rofl:


----------



## canadiangirl

bff said:


> If it can help anyone at all (like Shamwow's thread did for me) then I'm happy for you to reference it. This forum is an incredible resource, and I think each person will have to find the thread(s) that resonate with their own situation.
> 
> BFF


BFF, you have NO idea about how much your thread helped me in 2012. I even PMd you. You are so strong. Your story is and will be so helpful. 

The Girl From Canada. ❤🍁


----------



## warlock07

bff said:


> To be clear up front, I am NOT an advocate for California's laws as they stand for the exact reason you state above. Now, that being said, I do want to point out one very important upside, or silver lining or whatever you want to call it, to true "no fault" divorce laws. That upside is that, when there are no kids involved, you do not have to spend any time with attorneys or in court trying to assign, assess or apportion blame on each other. You simply divide up the assets and come to agreement on duration and amount of support based on some pretty simple rules.
> 
> Personally, although financially it was painful for me to "give" my XW all that I've had to and continue to give her in $$ terms, avoiding that legal and court battle was worth it to me. I think back about how much longer I would have had to stay in the hollow marriage while I hired PI's to "gather evidence" - and then to have to stand there in court as they read off and show pictures of her meeting up with, kissing, ****ing and whatever else with the OM; well I'm not sure I could have moved on with such a healthy positive outlook if I had gone through that.
> 
> While my XW admitted the affair to me when I confronted her and bluffed about how much I knew, I seriously doubt she would have admitted that in court. It would have been a BATTLE.
> 
> Anyway, that's just another thing to consider, no matter how unjust it seems that a lying, cheating WS collects checks each month for years and years.
> 
> BFF



No fault divorce are like the lesser of the two evils. Well and good if the WS confesses to the affair otherwise imagine the hell the BS should go through to collect the relevant evidence and WS to hide hers. 

Remember dadof2's thread ? His PI was pretty much useless.


----------



## bff

canadiangirl said:


> BFF, you have NO idea about how much your thread helped me in 2012. I even PMd you. You are so strong. Your story is and will be so helpful.
> 
> The Girl From Canada. ❤🍁


Bisous, girl from Canada! I sincerely hope you are doing great. YOU were an inspiration for ME.

BFF


----------



## tom67

bff in between changing diapers come back if you can and contribute.:smthumbup:
All the best.


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

I did it! I finished reading the thread! 

bff, you strike me as a combination of the best of Chumplady and Gandhi combined.

One thing I'm curious about: In 2005, when I dragged my wife to a divorce mediator I'd made contact with based on a recommendation from my IC, he told us that we could arrange for spousal support to be paid monthly (for MANY years, since we'd been married 30 by that point), or, since we would have to sell our historic home to be able to afford life on our own, we could determine a lump sum amount that I'd pay and be done with by the time the divorce was final.

Could something like that work for you?

-10th Engineer Harrison


----------



## bff

I asked about that often during the settlement process, simply because I wanted to avoid the possibility of ongoing "negotiations" (exactly what just happened) and didn't want to have to continue to interact with her for 5 more years. I just want her to be out of sight in my rear view mirror...

But, there are two issues.

1 - The tax treatment of a lump-sum is very tricky. My attorney and my tax accountant have both said the IRS could view it as a property division instead of alimony, and therefore it would NOT be tax deductible to me. That would make it financially unpalatable given my tax bracket.

2 - I'm sure my XW and her attorney would want an astronomical sum of money to "let me off the hook". Because my pay is variable AND because they know I have stock in a startup company that could do "very well", they would ask for a settlement that assumes near maximum earnings for me.

So, it's not worth it. If she was cash-poor at this point, maybe she'd accept some fraction of the expected payout up front just for the time-value of cash, but that's not the case.

I've come to grips with the fact that I have to continue to deal with her until mid 2017.

BFF


----------



## tripad

bff said:


> Chap, I picked up No More Mister Nice Guy and, I've got to be honest, it just didn't do it for me. I totally get that me being a doormat to my wife sometimes (and also to others, I'm sure) opens me up to sub-optimal situations. I am absolutely going to work on my assertiveness. I do like the idea that I've got to identify my own needs and then be very clear about them in future relationships. But, I just couldn't "get into" the material. I'll check out MMSLP. Maybe I'll have a better connection with that one.


Another Tam told me to read your story. 
Half way through. Cant help to wonder. R u sure u r a doormat n unassertive? I mean u can't possibly earn a decent Income without being confident n assertive? 

I m thinking, speaking from own experience, is that you r only a softie to your loved ones. I m that too n my ex abused tt. The moment I detached n filed, I m back to the confident emotionless working woman.


----------



## ThePheonix

bff said:


> 1 - The tax treatment of a lump-sum is very tricky. My attorney and my tax accountant have both said the IRS could view it as a property division instead of alimony, and therefore it would NOT be tax deductible to me. That would make it financially unpalatable given my tax bracket.




Its not that tricky. If its a lump-sum, the IRS does consider it not to be alimony and therefore not deductible.


----------



## Cynthia

bff said:


> 1 - The tax treatment of a lump-sum is very tricky. My attorney and my tax accountant have both said the IRS could view it as a property division instead of alimony, and therefore it would NOT be tax deductible to me. That would make it financially unpalatable given my tax bracket.
> 
> 2 - I'm sure my XW and her attorney would want an astronomical sum of money to "let me off the hook". Because my pay is variable AND because they know I have stock in a startup company that could do "very well", they would ask for a settlement that assumes near maximum earnings for me.
> 
> So, it's not worth it. If she was cash-poor at this point, maybe she'd accept some fraction of the expected payout up front just for the time-value of cash, but that's not the case.
> 
> I've come to grips with the fact that I have to continue to deal with her until mid 2017.
> 
> BFF


If you have a lump sum you could give her, then can you have it put into an account that is administered to automatically deposit an amount into her account monthly? This way you would not have to physically write her a check or deal with it again, until you would have to close out the account and be done.


----------



## ThePheonix

He could do it through a fiduciary and not have to deal directly with her. Another good way of handling it is simply drop a check in the mail once a month. The alimony is part of the divorce decree and amended only by the courts so direct interaction tween the exes about payment is willful on their part.


----------



## LongWalk

In much of Europe checks have not existed for many years. A 20-something-year-old in Sweden wouldn't get the concept. Doesn't everybody just do all banking on the Internet? Ironic that California originated so much high tech.

In the calculus of this whole disaster BFF made one key decision, he knew he would divorce exWW once he documented physical infidelity.

BFF, you are a pretty philosophical guy. Did the thought ever go through your head that the inability to conceive, although it was hers, stimulated her to cheat? Was her infidelity partly a subconscious sort of blame shifting?

Do you feel that the selfish gene within you spoke clearly in the darkest hours: "This woman is not only a cheater but infertile. Why the eff would I want to sacrifice having my own children for her happiness?"

Do doubt she will look at the baby pics on Facebook. She'll hate it and be unable to stop herself.

MIL may also stalk you on FB. She may feel even worse than your ex.

Whether or not OM moved in with her doesn't concern you anymore. Still she doesn't have the freedom to shack up with anyone for the duration of the alimony. That is surely an irritation.


----------



## tripad

OldWolf57 said:


> Another note bff, he might be gloating to her, but in his thoughts, he is still jealous of you and your success, which seem to come without much effort to him.
> And now that you have just DUMP her without breaking down for all to see, and without repeated attempts to question her for more details, he is hating you.
> You have not giving him what he has dreamed would happened when it came out. He saw a big blowup and you being destroyed emotionally, calling him and questioning. Instead, you got what you wanted to know and KICKED HIM and HER in the gutter, and never looked back.
> All those times he was laughing under his breath at weak lil you, you have shown him and her that you really don't value her that much. Thats what they are seeing now. NEVER let the scum see the hurt.
> Oh, and she might be nice now, but once she gets over her lil embrassment toward you, she is going to resent you for not at least talking of R. So let the lawyers do the talking. If she needs anything from the house, tell her to set it up through them.



Yup 

So true


----------



## alte Dame

LongWalk said:


> In much of Europe checks have not existed for many years. A 20-something-year-old in Sweden wouldn't get the concept. Doesn't everybody just do all banking on the Internet? Ironic that California originated so much high tech.


(Just fwiw, LW, I don't know anyone who writes checks anymore, although the option is there and I'm sure some people use it, just the way my German friends can still write paper bank transfer orders. Where I live I almost never see anyone paying with cash. It's all apps on phones or other electronic options.)


----------



## Remains

alte Dame said:


> (Just fwiw, LW, I don't know anyone who writes checks anymore, although the option is there and I'm sure some people use it, just the way my German friends can still write paper bank transfer orders. Where I live I almost never see anyone paying with cash. It's all apps on phones or other electronic options.)


I don't know if the UK is classed as Europe seeing as we're not quite all in, but I still write the odd cheque or 2. School expenses for my kids and my rent


----------



## larry.gray

It's pretty much school stuff that we write checks for. I'd say it's about once a month. 

We have a few bills that can't take EFT, and my bank mails them a check. We never see it, it's just setup to send it the same day every month.


----------



## tripad

bff said:


> Hey gang,
> 
> While I appreciate the sentiments of how much it will bother my XW to see me with a young hottie, I'm in a very different place. I feel sorry for her - she's made some terrible decisions and the sort of selfishness she exhibits is never going to lead her to happiness. That's sad.
> 
> I have ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY no desire to hurt her. No desire to make her jealous. No desire to get even. No desire to focus even an ounce of attention on what is behind us. I have said before that I still harbor some frustration about how "easy" this has all been for the OM, and that's still there. But towards my XW... nothing.
> 
> I know it might not seem rational, but that's truly how I feel.
> 
> BFF



Bff

You have a kind soul 

I m with you on this. Aft all my initial anger n shock is over, ( my ex H cheated me financially n hits me, affair I didnt bother to check although he grope a woman in front of me in a company function) , I don't wish any hurt on him. I pity him as he got into debts again. I'm just not paying anymore. I've 2 children to feed. 

Against my gf s advice to sign away chunks on credit card for him to pay, I didn't see the need to sink him further. If he's pretending to be in debt to cheat my alimony n support, I pity him as a man / ex husband / n father.


----------



## tripad

warlock07 said:


> Can't help but think that she probably was lashing out using the only opportunity she had.
> 
> She probably is pissed off that you remarried and are having kids with your new wife and happily putting her in the past,while she is stuck with the dependent leech of an OM(The affair is probably not as exciting now) and if she wanted kids with him, fertility treatments.


Agreed


----------



## tripad

I shed some tears for u when I read abt the birth of your soN 

Good for you 

Bff


----------



## NosborCrop

finally read the entire thread, happy ending ^^


----------



## justsomedudeNJ

BFF - I just read your story. Wow, man. I dunno why I was reading this forum, I think next time I'll just punch myself in the face for an hour .. less painful. 
I just got divorced myself after having discovered my wife was cheating. I love the way you handled it and your strength. Good for you!


----------



## bff

Howdy TAM family,

Time for my quarterly check in. Before I respond to some of the questions and posts, I'd like to say that life is good. My son is just past 4 months old and is the joy of my life. My wife and I are tired all the time (of course!) but still manage to work well as a team to raise the little ******. He's almost 19 lbs at 4 months - a BIG boy! 

I still have to pinch myself sometimes when I think that it was only a couple years ago that my life seemed at such a low point. I hope this is an inspiration that taking the high road in a situation like mine - not focussing on revenge but rather on living well - can be a recipe for success and happiness. Don't let bitterness consume you.

Now, to address some of the specific posts.

Regarding ways to avoid having to interact with her, I pretty much do that. I have automated payments from my account to hers. But, because I have to do calculations every time she or I get some "additional" income, there seems every other month or so some little wrinkle that needs to be addressed. She gets a work bonus or a raise (I get credit for those). I get a bonus from work (quarterly), she gets a piece of that. So, I'm constantly having to email her and say "here's what the payments will be this month".

None of this is a trigger for me, so it's not something I need to spend time or money trying to work around. It's just a pretty constant reminder that she still has a "piece" of me, and I hate that. That she gets to participate in my ongoing hard work and success sucks. I've had to re-arrange my investment portfolio to avoid any sort of material gains in the next two years, since she gets 38% of anything that is actual income... dividends, anything like that.

To the question of whether the fact that we couldn't have kids could have lead to the affair... yes and no. From what I pieced together with relative certainty, the affair started very, very close to when we first started trying (came off birth control). So, it's not like it was the result of frustration from years of trying.

Was my decision to leave her rooted in the feeling that she couldn't "give me children"? Honestly, I can say I don't believe so. I was never the one pushing for kids. I am just not someone who had a deep-seated need to pro-create. She was really the one driving that. 

When I got together with my [second] wife, my feelings about kids changed. I could see she and I, together, raising a family. I always had trouble visualizing that with my ex. So, maybe I DID have those internal drives, I just wasn't with the right mate for them to surface?

In any event, I maintain that the affair and our divorce was not ABOUT kids or lackthereof, but that certainly is an important context to the situation.

To the question of whether I'm a doormat - just to the ones I love - that's probably a good observation. I'm not a timid person at all, but I was very timid and non-confrontational to my ex. 

BFF


----------



## alte Dame

You've done what for so many is very, very difficult - let go of the past and the pain and find the good things that life can offer.

Life is short, bff, and before you know it, you'll be free of any obligation to your ex. Your wife, the one who was meant to be, and your son will fill up every page. This is all because you realized that you have a lot of life left & that it can be happy and fulfilling if you go for it.

Every time I read about your new family, I smile, wide.

Best of luck to all of you!


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## LongWalk

BFF,

You are a TAM legend if you didn't know. There is a thread discussing the favorite "stories" and yours was mentioned.

All we need now for a dramatic ending is a Hidden camera disguised as a rock that records your jerk former friend living with her so that you can get out of alimony.

In any case, she is looking at your baby on Facebook and wishing her life had turned out differently. Her unethical selfish genes failed. Yours had good upbringing.


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## weightlifter

Bff you have no idea how many people you have helped. I get a lot of no thread poster pms and i near always point them here to see there is a road forward.


----------



## Borntohang

BFF, I have to respond. I started "lurking" on TAM shortly before you started posting. I watched your journey unfold!
Like most here, I kept hoping that your suspicions were wrong... I waited anxiously for your returns. 
We could all feel your pain on discovery. But you handled it such class! Everyone was rooting for you! 
Seeing you emerge with a great new marriage and a beautiful son has been remarkable! 
But I have to fess up...I would love to hear about "some" pain your ex and ex BFF are experiencing! Please share some discomfort!


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## happyman64

The only discomfort his ExW might be feeling is his happiness at moving on in life being happy with someone else.

And IMO his ExW is so selfish she cannot see or feel past her own nose.

Good for you BFF. Live Long & Prosper.

HM


----------



## tom67

happyman64 said:


> The only discomfort his ExW might be feeling is his happiness at moving on in life being happy with someone else.
> 
> And IMO his ExW is so selfish she cannot seeor feel past her own nose.
> 
> Good for you BFF. Live Long & Prosper.
> 
> HM


As Mach would say it will hit her when she is alone with 6 cats and a bottle gin.
Hope she is saving that alimony.


----------



## bff

Thanks for the kind words, everyone. 

She's already well on her way to discovery. She's got two cats and a dog. Two dogs if you count my ex-bff. ;-)

As for the discomfort they might be experiencing? It's not material discomfort by any stretch. She's got the $1m house (worth $1.4m now according to Zillow - I just checked - thanks to an insane Bay Area housing market). She bought herself a late model Porsche 911 convertible in 2013. OM got a 3 series BMW which his father had to co-sign the loan for. When I learned that, I almost fell out of my chair laughing. 

Their discomfort will come when the money starts to run out. And it WILL start to run out. The way they both spend far outpaces either's ability to actually produce income. Mid 2017, the checks from me will stop coming. I happen to know from looking at her tax returns (her lawyer demands mine, so I ask for hers) that she's tied nearly all the cash from our settlement into that house. So, when the well starts to dry up, she'll either have to sell the house (which will destroy her) or she'll have to cut back spending, which will be nearly impossible for both of them.

Their pain is coming. Patience.

BFF


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## LongWalk

So he does live with her and you could say that she has remarried? Given his income, perhaps he only counts as a dependent. Vet bills are expensive these days.

One suspects that your former MIL will never see her daughter's mate swap favorably. Have you ever bumped into her by accident?


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## tom67

LongWalk said:


> So he does live with her and you could say that she has remarried? Given his income, perhaps he only counts as a dependent. Vet bills are expensive these days.
> 
> One suspects that your former MIL will never see her daughter's mate swap favorably. Have you ever bumped into her by accident?


LW
I teeter between UK divorce law and California.
They both suck.
He was a few months of LIFETIME alimony.
Yes that is scary.


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## bff

As far as I know, he does not live with her. I did a little "checking" when she was getting aggressive with her lawyer, trying to get her alimony raised last Fall. At that point, it looked like they were spending most (every?) evening together but he was leaving the house and sleeping somewhere else.

Haven't bumped into the MIL, but that could happen. She lives in a small town in wine country that we frequent. It's only a matter of time. I'm likely to run into all three of them together at a restaurant, which would actually be great! I'd say my "three" versus her "three" isn't much of a contest. We win, hands down.


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## bff

tom67 said:


> LW
> He was a few months of LIFETIME alimony.
> Yes that is scary.


I literally have nightmares about this, every once in a while. Between the adoption and that 10 year rule, both just a few months away... I didn't dodge a bullet, I dodged a hellfire missile!

BFF


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## LongWalk

bff said:


> STBxW's mother just called me. She started by begging me to give her daughter another chance because "everybody makes mistakes but everybody deserves another chance." She said, "She REALLY loves you and wants to be with YOU, not with OM."
> 
> I said she should have thought of that when OM was on top of her, f*&king her in our bed in our house.
> 
> She actually did a lot more blameshifting than my WW did. She kept saying that there must have been problems in our relationship and our marriage that "forced" her daughter to look elsewhere and that I owed it to her daughter and to myself to figure out what that was. I told her that while I agree that our marriage wasn't perfect back when this all started, I thought it was pretty good and that my WW never once told me that she wasn't satisfied with things. Her decision to go outside the marriage was her own selfish decision, it wasn't my refusal to work with her on any issues.
> 
> We went round and round, her saying that her daughter loves me and is a good, trustworthy person who has ended her relationship with the OM. I pointed out again and again that the ONLY reason that relationship is over was because I CAUGHT THEM. She didn't make that decision and ask to work on our relationship. She only is asking to work on the relationship since I took away her preferred option of having her cake and f*&king it too.
> 
> Also had a text exchange with my WW. Here's my favorite from her in response to me saying, "How the hell could you do this to me?":
> 
> "I wasn't doing anything to you. I just let a close relationship get too far."
> 
> Boy, if I wasn't resolved before to get this person out of my life, her statement that she doesn't see this as doing anything TO ME makes me sure that I do, indeed, deserve better.


----------



## tom67

bff said:


> As far as I know, he does not live with her. I did a little "checking" when she was getting aggressive with her lawyer, trying to get her alimony raised last Fall. At that point, it looked like they were spending most (every?) evening together but he was leaving the house and sleeping somewhere else.
> 
> Haven't bumped into the MIL, but that could happen. She lives in a small town in wine country that we frequent. It's only a matter of time. I'm likely to run into all three of them together at a restaurant, which would actually be great! I'd say my "three" versus her "three" isn't much of a contest. We win, hands down.


bff
It's all good it's your journey
My d16 and my parents will help watching my sisters 2.5 year old and the 7 month tornado and watch... sigh... thomas the train


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## MattMatt

This is good news. Thanks for the update. It was a heck of a journey.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Graywolf2

bff said:


> In any event, I maintain that the affair and our divorce was not ABOUT kids or lack thereof, but that certainly is an important context to the situation.


If I remember correctly your WW was undergoing treatments to increase the chances of getting pregnant. You two didn’t have sex except when she was in the fertile part of her cycle. 

Your WW insisted that you had sex every cycle. You remembered that some cycles were skipped. I would tend to give a horny husband’s recollection more credence. 

I seriously doubt that your WW and the OM scrupulously abstained from sex during these periods. I also doubt that she would have gotten an abortion if it were the OM’s child.



bff said:


> I literally have nightmares about this, every once in a while. Between the adoption and that 10 year rule, both just a few months away... *I didn't dodge a bullet, I dodged a hellfire missile!*BFF


:iagree:


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## See_Listen_Love

bff said:


> Even as my life (as I know it today) is crumbling around me, I nearly spit out my coffee laughing at this!!
> ......
> Patience everyone. This will get ugly, but one way or another, in the long run, it's going to end well FOR ME.


07-26-2012


:allhail:


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## joannacroc

You were in a horrible situation and managed to not only trust someone new, enough to communicate with them, but are building a new life and family with them. It gave me a lot of hope to read your thread. I'm really encouraged by your positivity in the face of so much betrayal and hurt. I'm not there yet, after my husband cheated on me and I left him. I kind of hate them both. But I will be eventually. Your posts helped me see how much of your recovery was gradual steps. Enjoy your son and new wife. You deserve it!


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## LongWalk

bff said:


> As far as I know, he does not live with her. I did a little "checking" when she was getting aggressive with her lawyer, trying to get her alimony raised last Fall. *At that point, it looked like they were spending most (every?) evening together but he was leaving the house and sleeping somewhere else.*
> 
> Haven't bumped into the MIL, but that could happen. She lives in a small town in wine country that we frequent. It's only a matter of time. I'm likely to run into all three of them together at a restaurant, which would actually be great! I'd say my "three" versus her "three" isn't much of a contest. We win, hands down.


The need to safe guard the income from you c*ck blocked OM. What a humiliation that each night your ex had to tell him to go home to his apartment.


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## happyman64

What will be really interesting is when the well runs dry in 2017 if the OM even stays with her......

That will be a very interesting end to their story.

Fortunately BFF's new story is far more interesting....

Especially when your ExMIL might see 4 at the other table?????


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## Deejo

The story that defines you isn't the heartbreaking sadness, disbelief, or anger of a failed relationship.

It's the story you choose to write after that chapter is closed.

Very well done.

Your updates are greatly appreciated, and I can confidently say, admired.


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## verpin zal

I really don't know, as a man who has "walked in" and seen it, but I should think that there must be something different between having to endure a web of lies and abruptly getting enlightened with a visage right before the very pair of eyes.

And as a man who've resisted resorting to violence, I admire your resolve.

For a moment there, I placed myself in your place, in your kitchen in your house somewhere in the united states, a cup of coffee running cold in my hand and interrogating my wife, with the tiniest hope of she would come clean and thinking, yes, she admitted, there should still be a chance for us.

But that wouldn't be.

Again, sir, I commend you for the course of action you took so far. I appreciate the updates you provide.

Live long and prosper.


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## bff

It brings back a lot of memories to see some of the quotes you've all posted above. I spent a few hours and read the whole thread again from beginning to end. It's easier to read now that I know the ending 

Rereading it reminded me how fortunate I am to be with the woman I'm with. I took some time earlier today to tell her how much I appreciate her, and we ended up having a great discussion about little things we should be doing more for each other. The baby in the mix has had the effect of distracting us from the basics of our own relationship.

Anyway, part me thinks its not "healthy" for me to come back to this thread. But the other part of me (the part that's winning) says those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. I'm happy this is helping others, but reminding myself from time to time how I got here helps me, too.

BFF


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## LongWalk

BFF,

I am glad you weren't offended that I quote the old dramatic passage. It stimulated you to become a reader of your own diary, which is a new modern literary form. Not all TAM threads are complete or artistic enough to rate being art. But yours is. Gut Punch's thread is another one.

I am a 56-year-old father of two teens, 17 and 19. Our generation began having children later in life and you started in the 11th hour. You will probably discover that your child (and as someone suggested, why not make it a four person family) will keep you young.

You're a wise guy and your experience with infidelity has reinforced your values. If your ex hadn't cheated you might still be stuck with her. Thank goodness she did.


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## happyman64

"Winning" is conquering ones own fears. 

Coming back here and posting your own continuous journey Just shows everyone on TAM your true values. 

But what your journey is also showing is that their a lot of life to live after infidelity. 

And a lot of love can also still be given as well as received if the BS moves on to that "winning" strategy. 

Keep proving it BFF.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bff

Hey there TAM family!

I'm a couple weeks late to post this, but I recently passed the 3 year "anniversary" of my confrontation. I thought I'd give a quick update and again thank all of you who supported me through my whole journey. 

Things are GOOD! My little guy is just over 9 months old and is happy, healthy and a constant source of joy. My wife is back to work and we recently bought a home together. While that is a joyous occasion, it has the unfortunate effect of increasing the monthly support I have to pay her because of the additional interest tax deduction I get. While I usually love California, sometimes I hate it. But, that's a small price to pay (no pun intended) and it's only for two more years... Now that we have some space, we're talking about increasing our family size by one more... :-O

I hope anyone reading this post who feels like their world is crumbling and that only dark days are ahead can capture a glimmer of hope here and realize that things can turn around quickly if you take the high road and don't let spite and anger control your decisions.

Best to you all!

bff


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## farsidejunky

Thanks for continuing to share, BFF. This thread needs to be a guide book for a BS to get back on their feet.


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## sparrow555

bff said:


> Hey there TAM family!
> 
> I'm a couple weeks late to post this, but I recently passed the 3 year "anniversary" of my confrontation. I thought I'd give a quick update and again thank all of you who supported me through my whole journey.
> 
> Things are GOOD! My little guy is just over 9 months old and is happy, healthy and a constant source of joy. My wife is back to work and we recently bought a home together. While that is a joyous occasion, it has the unfortunate effect of increasing the monthly support I have to pay her because of the additional interest tax deduction I get. While I usually love California, sometimes I hate it. But, that's a small price to pay (no pun intended) and it's only for two more years... Now that we have some space, we're talking about increasing our family size by one more... :-O
> 
> I hope anyone reading this post who feels like their world is crumbling and that only dark days are ahead can capture a glimmer of hope here and realize that things can turn around quickly if you take the high road and don't let spite and anger control your decisions.
> 
> Best to you all!
> 
> bff



Your ex has truly no shame...


----------



## happyman64

> I hope anyone reading this post who feels like their world is crumbling and that only dark days are ahead can capture a glimmer of hope here and realize that things can turn around quickly if you take the high road and don't let spite and anger control your decisions.


Sometimes the best revenge is to live well.

Glad your life, new wife and family are great BFF.

Keep on living.


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## LongWalk

How many months of spousal support left?


----------



## Healer

Just read (most of) this thread. What a great ending BFF. You handled things really well. And while my heart broke for you while reading a lot of it, it turned into a happy story. So glad that person is (mostly) out of your life. Congrats on your new life.


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## Kalrayan

I just read through the entire postings 99 pages! Wow! I felt like living through your entire experience of 3 years. You came out winner and never showed spite and anger. It is a lesson worth remembering. Have a great day, bbf!:smthumbup:


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## GusPolinski

LongWalk said:


> How many months of spousal support left?



Too many.


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## LongWalk

Well, the way I look at it, BFF's DNA is going on at least another generation. DNA expressed in a child also takes a person's language, culture and values further among mankind. His ex, and I feel sorry for her, will never have this joy. So BFF, being the kind of guy that he is, will grin and bear it.

Still, it would be nice to know how he cuts the final check. Perhaps he is doing by internet banking deposits. But the last one could be on a piece of paper, not with any written message. His signature would be enough. She would have to sign it to cash the final payment. He could get it back from the bank.


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## Cynthia

The divorce was final July of 2012. 


bff said:


> I rarely see my xW anymore, but I'm still dealing with her on financial matters for another few years (the term of my alimony was just over 4 years).
> No triggers remain of any sort. It doesn't even bother me when I have to write the checks, anymore. I just think about how much


I guess he has until the end of 2016 or so, about another year.


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## LongWalk

He could have two children by then.


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## Cynthia

LongWalk said:


> He could have two children by then.


Don't rule out twins. lol


----------



## bff

July 2017 is when alimony ends, unfortunately. So, nearly 2 more years. The full term of alimony was half the 9 years and 9 months of marriage.

We're working on expanding our family. But TWINS???!?! Oh man, I don't know.... :-O :-D

FWIW I am paying through the bank's bill pay service. It's the most convenient for me and the least convenient for her. I click through the website, then they mail her a paper check she has to deposit. I have no intention of making the money just "appear" every couple weeks in her account with a direct transfer. I want her to have to sign and deposit a check. I'm sure she doesn't think of it as taking anything from me - after all, the state tells her she "deserves" it and is entitled to it and she said herself that she didn't "do anything to me". 

No problem. With a little one running around (well, still crawling) and hopefully another one coming soon, two years will fly by. If I do anything ceremonial for that last payment, it won't be visible to her. I'd prefer to just end all contact at that point with no fanfare. I'll continue to write those checks every month, they'll just be made out to my kid's college fund. Just thinking about that makes me smile.

bff


----------



## Malaise

She actually said she didn't do anything to you?


----------



## sparrow555

bff said:


> July 2017 is when alimony ends, unfortunately. So, nearly 2 more years. The full term of alimony was half the 9 years and 9 months of marriage.
> 
> We're working on expanding our family. But TWINS???!?! Oh man, I don't know.... :-O :-D
> 
> FWIW I am paying through the bank's bill pay service. It's the most convenient for me and the least convenient for her. I click through the website, then they mail her a paper check she has to deposit. I have no intention of making the money just "appear" every couple weeks in her account with a direct transfer. I want her to have to sign and deposit a check. I'm sure she doesn't think of it as taking anything from me - after all, the state tells her she "deserves" it and is entitled to it and she said herself that she didn't "do anything to me".
> 
> No problem. With a little one running around (well, still crawling) and hopefully another one coming soon, two years will fly by. If I do anything ceremonial for that last payment, it won't be visible to her. I'd prefer to just end all contact at that point with no fanfare. I'll continue to write those checks every month, they'll just be made out to my kid's college fund. Just thinking about that makes me smile.
> 
> bff


There are pretty valid situations where alimony is pretty relevant and necessary. Unfortunately, it also provides for women like your ex-wife where it is just unfair and people taking advantage of it. You were lucky in that you were well off enough that the payments do not affect your standard of living and that you were married for 9 years and 9 months instead of 10 years. Imagine the nightmare it would have been to pay her alimony for the rest of your life. :surprise:

At the very least, it would be nice to remove the years that she was cheating from the number of years she was married when considering alimony. But I guess it can be a legal nighmare for the government. 


Do you know if she is still with the douche bag that she cheated with ?


----------



## LongWalk

I am probably not alone in hoping you will put a hidden camera in a rock by her driveway so that you can see if she has a guy living with her. If she does, invest in a PI and go back to court to get scrap the leech off of your child's college fund. Probably has let her guard down by now.

Great with the check. Make her sign. Every time she does it, there is a mini confrontation with reality.


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## happyman64

No PI required. There is nothing really to see IMO.

If it was me I would send the last check with a little handwritten note.

*"Dear ExWW,

Attached is your last spousal check. I wanted to thank you for showing me the way to happiness. Without you I would not have found a loving, loyal wife nor the blessings of my two children.

I truly hope you find your happiness."*

She will get the message and after all BFF has become one of those men that has learned great things come from crappy events in our lives.

The key is to letting go, forgiving and moving on to a better place.

JMO

HM


----------



## gouge_away

I just subscribed to this thread, hopefully it will help me to read it entirely.


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## Satya

I personally disagree with any vengeful tactic, no matter how subtle.

Don't stoop to that level and be petty and mean to your ex. Be indifferent, carry on, and focus your whole energies on you and your new family.


----------



## Chaparral

If I recall, her living with the posom would stop alimony. I agree with having a PI check up on her occasionally. There are one or two better ways to spend money besides giving it to a back stabbing friend and cheating ex.


----------



## Dycedarg

happyman64 said:


> No PI required. There is nothing really to see IMO.
> 
> If it was me I would send the last check with a little handwritten note.
> 
> *"Dear ExWW,
> 
> Attached is your last spousal check. I wanted to tank you for showing me the way to happiness. Without you I would not have found a loving, loyal wife nor the blessings of my two children.
> 
> I truly hope you find your happiness."*
> 
> She will get the message and after all BFF has become one of those men that has learned great things come from crappy events in our lives.
> 
> The key is to letting go, forgiving and moving on to a better place.
> 
> JMO
> 
> HM


I agree that letting go is the key. But I don't think a letter like that would convey that sentiment. It seems too bitter and heavy-handed. No letter at all would probably be best. 

Letting go truly is the key to ending a relationship in a healthy fashion. Even if the relationship itself was toxic, ending things well will matter in the years to come. It can't be about appearances- it can't be about that final edge of self-vindication of twisting the knife to add the increment of discomfort we feel they deserve. It really has to be about moving on, and leaving the other person to do as they please. It's such a difficult thing to do.


----------



## sparrow555

sparrow555 said:


> There are pretty valid situations where alimony is pretty relevant and necessary. Unfortunately, it also provides for women like your ex-wife where it is just unfair and people taking advantage of it. You were lucky in that you were well off enough that the payments do not affect your standard of living and that you were married for 9 years and 9 months instead of 10 years. Imagine the nightmare it would have been to pay her alimony for the rest of your life. :surprise:
> 
> At the very least, it would be nice to remove the years that she was cheating from the number of years she was married when considering alimony. But I guess it can be a legal nighmare for the government.
> 
> 
> Do you know if she is still with the douche bag that she cheated with ?



Just went back and read again. it was a 5-6 year old affair while she was OM's sugar momma. 6 years in a 9 year old marriage.

How do these people live with themselves ?


----------



## GusPolinski

bff said:


> July 2017 is when alimony ends, unfortunately. So, nearly 2 more years. The full term of alimony was half the 9 years and 9 months of marriage.
> 
> We're working on expanding our family. But TWINS???!?! Oh man, I don't know.... :-O :-D
> 
> FWIW I am paying through the bank's bill pay service. It's the most convenient for me and the least convenient for her. I click through the website, then they mail her a paper check she has to deposit. I have no intention of making the money just "appear" every couple weeks in her account with a direct transfer. I want her to have to sign and deposit a check. I'm sure she doesn't think of it as taking anything from me - after all, the state tells her she "deserves" it and is entitled to it and she said herself that she didn't "do anything to me".
> 
> No problem. With a little one running around (well, still crawling) and hopefully another one coming soon, two years will fly by. If I do anything ceremonial for that last payment, it won't be visible to her. I'd prefer to just end all contact at that point with no fanfare. I'll continue to write those checks every month, they'll just be made out to my kid's college fund. Just thinking about that makes me smile.
> 
> bff


For the last payment, I'd cancel the auto-check and write a check out to her by hand and mail it to her. In the comments field, I'd write...

"Free at last!"

If you like, once the check has been cashed, download the image from the bank, print it out, and frame it. :smthumbup:

Oh... I'd probably also send pics of the kid(s) along w/ the check.


----------



## GusPolinski

sparrow555 said:


> Just went back and read again. it was a 5-6 year old affair while she was OM's sugar momma. 6 years in a 9 year old marriage.
> 
> *How do these people live with themselves ?*


With bff's hard-earned money, apparently.


----------



## tripad

sparrow555 said:


> Just went back and read again. it was a 5-6 year old affair while she was OM's sugar momma. 6 years in a 9 year old marriage.
> 
> *How do these people live with themselves ?*


I was told by a lawyer 
They csn sleep and live with it with no remorse


----------



## Cynthia

Chaparral said:


> If I recall, her living with the posom would stop alimony. I agree with having a PI check up on her occasionally. There are one or two better ways to spend money besides giving it to a back stabbing friend and cheating ex.


He said earlier in the thread that the OM doesn't make any money. The alimony wouldn't stop due to someone moving in. It would only be adjusted according to the OM's contribution to the household expenses, which apparently would be nothing that would make any difference. That's why he has let it go. It would be more money and negativity for no real payback.


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## LongWalk

If BFF does not have privacy on his Facebook photos, sooner or later exWW will gaze at his children and her heart will flood with sadness and regret. Actually, she probably Facebook stalks him already.

So, indeed as several posters have pointed out twisting the knife is pure overkill.

Nothing in BFF's thread that I recall off hand suggested that his exWW suffered from mental illness or a personality disorder. Her account of what happened was probably true. She let the best friend get too close and once she succumbed to become his illicit lover she felt trapped. She was a typical cake eater. Infertility was a major issue. From a purely Machiavellian analysis – and hear I refer to TAM's Mach – her subliminal mind was desperately trying to get something to fasten to her womb. Two different potential fathers was better than one. Sadly, though, it was she who could not conceive.

She probably would have gone NC with POSexBF, but how comfortable would reconciliation have been?

Thank you BFF for not ruining your thread by attempting to fix things with her. Sure would wrecked the happy ending. TAM needs a few to motivate readers and posters.

I wouldn't be surprized if OM or some new OM sleep over frequently. She may have ditched POSexBF by now. He probably lost his luster. After all the principle thing that recommended him was his friendship to BFF.


----------



## GusPolinski

Satya said:


> I personally disagree with any vengeful tactic, no matter how subtle.
> 
> Don't stoop to that level and be petty and mean to your ex. Be indifferent, carry on, and focus your whole energies on you and your new family.


I'm being completely sincere when I say this... ^this^ is awesome advice. In fact, it's probably the best advice to be found in any thread here at TAM. Or anywhere, for that matter.

And it's just a crying damn shame that I'd be unable to follow it.


----------



## Marc878

Gus is my hero!!!!!!


----------



## LongWalk

There are two possible attitudes, both hurt.

If BFF despised her and she felt it, might hurt a lot. She might also be very callous.

If BFF felt sorry for her, pitied her, that might hurt even more.


----------



## Satya

GusPolinski said:


> I'm being completely sincere when I say this... ^this^ is awesome advice. In fact, it's probably the best advice to be found in any thread here at TAM. Or anywhere, for that matter.
> 
> And it's just a crying damn shame that I'd be unable to follow it.


I have to appreciate honesty like that, Gus. 

I had the perfect opportunity to be mean and spiteful to my ex H... But that's still giving him attention he didn't deserve and all it would have net me is high blood pressure and much slower progress with my self-healing. 

Hey if a person wants to exact revenge in a spiteful way... By all means do and feel better... Personally I'm trying to rack up my good Karma, so it's not a strategy I'd personally endorse.


----------



## Dyokemm

GusPolinski said:


> I'm being completely sincere when I say this... ^this^ is awesome advice. In fact, it's probably the best advice to be found in any thread here at TAM. Or anywhere, for that matter.
> 
> And it's just a crying damn shame that I'd be unable to follow it.


I don't think I could either Gus.

And one thing I have noticed about sh*tty people in life.

Someone earlier asked how can these people sleep at night.

It's easy for them, scummy people have little or no conscience from what I have seen my years.

But the one thing that does seem to upset their little apple cart...

When someone they have wronged delivers some consequences and retribution on them.

Generally speaking, these people don't handle it well...to say the least.

And the thought of destroying their peace of mind has always been something I could never resist.


Oh well >


----------



## GusPolinski

Satya said:


> I have to appreciate honesty like that, Gus.
> 
> I had the perfect opportunity to be mean and spiteful to my ex H... But that's still giving him attention he didn't deserve and all it would have net me is high blood pressure and much slower progress with my self-healing.
> 
> Hey if a person wants to exact revenge in a spiteful way... By all means do and feel better... Personally I'm trying to rack up my good Karma, so it's not a strategy I'd personally endorse.


Satya, I believe that we actually discussed this in another thread a few months ago.

And yes, again, I'm _mostly_ joking here. I'm maybe 75% joking. Or maybe 60%. OK... maybe 50.1%.

And as for the remaining 25%/40%/49.9% ...? I'll admit that some of it is drawn from my own story. Or, rather, a very specific piece of it that I've not shared here. At least not in the open forums. So yeah, maybe it's projection to some degree.

Now... would I do that to _*my* wife_ should a) she become my _ex_-wife due to infidelity and b) I remarry and wind up having a child or children w/ my new wife? No, probably not. But the reasons for that have to do primarily w/ how I feel about my wife, how I'd probably feel about her should that come to pass, and how I feel she'd likely conduct herself throughout all of it. And that last bit has to do w/ how she conducted herself on both D-Day #1 and #2, as well as the months and years that have since followed.

Now... would I do it to bff's ex if she were my ex?

Yeah. Probably so.

_ETA: Satya, I tried you send you a PM but couldn't.

Anyway, while browsing your profile, I realized that your join date is the day AFTER my D-Day #2. Weird.

Also, your avatars are awesome.

I promise I'm not stalking you.

LOL_


----------



## Satya

Sorry for the slight TJ...

Yeah, I totally understand Gus... like I said, my own story would have made it really easy to go down a revenge route... so I know from a feeling perspective how tempting that can be, because I was once tempted. We're all different in how we process things... I see things through my own particular lens and I'm pretty confident in what I've learned as it pertains to my own life and personality. I don't expect others to just magically agree. 

I made it a point to disable my PMs because what I post in the topics here is the limit I put on my contribution and connection to other members... nothing personal of course!

End of TJ...!


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

CynthiaDe said:


> He said earlier in the thread that the OM doesn't make any money. The alimony wouldn't stop due to someone moving in. It would only be adjusted according to the OM's contribution to the household expenses, which apparently would be nothing that would make any difference. That's why he has let it go. It would be more money and negativity for no real payback.


Yes, I think that's what I recall in his situation.

For others though, check with your lawyer as it depends on the state and roommate vs being a couple. If they are living as a couple it can be eliminated in certain states.


----------



## GusPolinski

Satya said:


> Sorry for the slight TJ...
> 
> Yeah, I totally understand Gus... like I said, my own story would have made it really easy to go down a revenge route... so I know from a feeling perspective how tempting that can be, because I was once tempted. We're all different in how we process things... I see things through my own particular lens and I'm pretty confident in what I've learned as it pertains to my own life and personality. I don't expect others to just magically agree.
> 
> I made it a point to disable my PMs because what I post in the topics here is the limit I put on my contribution and connection to other members... nothing personal of course!
> 
> End of TJ...!


Understood.


----------



## brokenguy

bff said:


> bff


HI, I stumbled upon this forum by accident. Could you help me?

How do you cope with your self? I have the problem as yours and I feel pretty useless...I don't think I can't trust anyone anymore.

Since I have a 3 years old daughter, how long should I hang on for the sake of my daughter ? Should I stay single ?

Any advice on how should I live my live?


----------



## happyman64

brokenguy

Please start your own thread. I assure you your questions will receive answers and the help you desire.

HM


----------



## Chaparral

GusPolinski said:


> I'm being completely sincere when I say this... ^this^ is awesome advice. In fact, it's probably the best advice to be found in any thread here at TAM. Or anywhere, for that matter.
> 
> And it's just a crying damn shame that I'd be unable to follow it.


It seems like cheaters affair down. I guess to end up with an affair partner, its affairing down by definition. Therefore, ergo, ipso facto and subpoena deuces takeum, (thanks Perry Mason), bff's ex scraped the bottom of the barrel and got stuck there. No babies and stuck with a loser, I can only feel sorry for her. Even if she doesn't get it, she jumped the shark bad.

Bff should send her a gift certificate to DAA (dumb a$$es anonymous) with his last check.


----------



## LongWalk

OM's mojo was in no small part due to Bff's business. Bff paid OM to fix a racing car. Did all three of them drive it in competition? They were tight, the three of them. I imagine that the racing was no fun once Bff was gone. Neither OM nor exWW could enjoy their relationship either. The cheating was a way for the two of them boost each other's egos but once the victim resigned the fun was gone.

OM could not even sleep over. Bff's spousal support had a so-called "c*ck blocking" effect.


----------



## bff

LongWalk said:


> OM's mojo was in no small part due to Bff's business. Bff paid OM to fix a racing car. Did all three of them drive it in competition? They were tight, the three of them. I imagine that the racing was no fun once Bff was gone. Neither OM nor exWW could enjoy their relationship either. The cheating was a way for the two of them boost each other's egos but once the victim resigned the fun was gone.
> 
> OM could not even sleep over. Bff's spousal support had a so-called "c*ck blocking" effect.


Maybe, but they're still at it. And, they're still together, it seems. I've decided not to follow up on confirming whether or not he's "sleeping over". It's really of no consequence to me because as someone pointed out above, he doesn't contribute enough to make it worth it financially to pursue legally. I want 22 more drama-free months of alimony and then I'm free of my last ties to either of them.

bff


----------



## LongWalk

I will try and stay active on TAM for two more years to not miss your final couple posts.

Bff, I have two kids, D20 and D17.

It is very important to have two because when one of them asks you where her tennis shoes are, you can reply "ask your sister". This saves a lot of time.

One more lie: If they get married once the spousal support runs out, people will ask them why they waited so long. How are they going to answer that one?


----------



## bff

Malaise said:


> She actually said she didn't do anything to you?


Yeah, the day after I confronted her we were texting and I said, "How could you do this to me." Her reply was, "I didn't do anything to you. I just let a close friendship go too far." 

That was the understatement of the year!

bff


----------



## sparrow555

How else could she have rationalized a 6 year affair ? She kept lying to herself again and again that this has nothing to do with you(bff).

She sounds like a psycho nutcase.. Never noticed anything odd with her during the marriage ?


----------



## bandit.45

bff said:


> Maybe, but they're still at it. And, they're still together, it seems. I've decided not to follow up on confirming whether or not he's "sleeping over".
> 
> bff


In the end....who cares?

You've got a good woman sharing your bed and giving you children, not some cheating slag with a dead womb.


----------



## bandit.45

LongWalk said:


> One more lie: If they get married once the spousal support runs out, people will ask them why they waited so long. How are they going to answer that one?


Who cares?

Do we worry about how the wino in the alley is panhandling enough money to buy a bottle of ripple?

Do we worry about how the meth heads in the trailer at the end of the road are going to get hold of enough cough medicine to cook their next batch?

Who cares what bff's scummy ex is doing. Scum are scum, and we leave them to filter filth off the bottom of the pond. 

Don't give her a second thought. She's nothing.... A nobody.


----------



## LongWalk

Bandit,

You need learn to rephrase things.

She was a polyamorous, fertility challenged woman who loved auto sports.


----------



## Clay2013

I would just keep in mind it does come back around. I have seen far to many things to think that it does not. You are right the smoother your next 22 months are the better off you will be but there will come a day when her choices will come back around.

I booted my xW out in 2007. She ran straight to the OM. They were together until last year when she cheated on him with another guy and ran off with that guy leaving her three kids she had with him. Two weeks ago my daughter gets a call asking if she can come over and see her mother. Due to her mother being a complete flake and vanishing from my kids life this last year I told them It would be supervised visitation. The next day we met at the restaurant when I got there I could see my xW suffered greatly from the new guy. He beat her damn near to death. She looked like she went three rounds with a professional boxer and on top of that she is now three months pregnant with his child. She claims she had to jump out of the car while they were at a stop light. He was going to take her out to a field and take care of her. I really don't like her but no one deserves what she got. Right now she has no home. damn near no clothes. It turns out her and her exOM put most of there things in storage and missed the payments. 

Her life right about now is xxit. I did not say anything to rub it in but it sure didn't help that I am driving a new Camaro and she is walking. 

Hopefully she will get some counceling and reevaluate her life. I doubt it. I expect she will at the very least get back with the xOM but who is to say. 

What goes around comes around. Your just not always able to see it. 

Just live your life and consider her nothing more than your past and leave her there once your done with your alimony payments. 

C


----------



## bandit.45

LongWalk said:


> Bandit,
> 
> You need learn to rephrase things.
> 
> She was a polyamorous, fertility challenged woman who loved auto sports.


Okay....


She was a polyamorous, fertility challenged scumbag who loved auto sports.


----------



## LongWalk

There once was a race car driver
who let a mechanic fiddle round inside her
When her husband found out
she had no chance to pout
for he knew to discard that ho liar


----------



## commonsenseisn't

Clay2013 said:


> I would just keep in mind it does come back around. I have seen far to many things to think that it does not. You are right the smoother your next 22 months are the better off you will be but there will come a day when her choices will come back around.
> 
> I booted my xW out in 2007. She ran straight to the OM. They were together until last year when she cheated on him with another guy and ran off with that guy leaving her three kids she had with him. Two weeks ago my daughter gets a call asking if she can come over and see her mother. Due to her mother being a complete flake and vanishing from my kids life this last year I told them It would be supervised visitation. The next day we met at the restaurant when I got there I could see my xW suffered greatly from the new guy. He beat her damn near to death. She looked like she went three rounds with a professional boxer and on top of that she is now three months pregnant with his child. She claims she had to jump out of the car while they were at a stop light. He was going to take her out to a field and take care of her. I really don't like her but no one deserves what she got. Right now she has no home. damn near no clothes. It turns out her and her exOM put most of there things in storage and missed the payments.
> 
> Her life right about now is xxit. I did not say anything to rub it in but it sure didn't help that I am driving a new Camaro and she is walking.
> 
> Hopefully she will get some counceling and reevaluate her life. I doubt it. I expect she will at the very least get back with the xOM but who is to say.
> 
> What goes around comes around. Your just not always able to see it.
> 
> Just live your life and consider her nothing more than your past and leave her there once your done with your alimony payments.
> 
> C


Damn, just damn. What a shame she's having kids with these guys.


----------



## LongWalk

How's life BFF?

Has cheating ex seen your new family?


----------



## Cynthia

LongWalk said:


> How's life BFF?
> 
> Has cheating ex seen your new family?


Hopefully not. Hopefully he has moved past her and never thinks of her anymore.


----------



## bff

The answers to your questions, LongWalk are "awesome" and "no".

Life is really good! My son is almost a year and a half old, now, and he is an incredible joy for us every single day. My wife is amazing to both me and my son. To say that I've "traded up" my entire life compared to my life a few years ago is the understatement of the century.

I've bought a house quite far away from where she lives and works, so there's little chance of running into her randomly. I'd like to take my son to see the races some of my old buddies, but when I do, I'll steer him well clear of the ex. I have no need to hurt her (and it WOULD hurt her, I'm sure, to see him) not to mention the risk of how she might react. It's not worth it. I want to run out my alimony obligation (a year and a couple months left) with no more drama and then never have to see, talk to or interact with her ever again.

bff


----------



## farsidejunky

Thanks for the update, brother.

Keep being great.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## LongWalk

Great update.

We'll tune in again in 14 months.

You don't even care if they are shacking up. That is true detachment. 

I am certain that she has checked up on you via some friend of a friend. She knows about your marriage and child. It bugs her. It's patch of hell in the bottom of her soul. But you never know. She may wistfully wish you happiness now. You never know.

Your ex "best friend" is probably not happy with his life. Metaphorically, you have lapped him many times.


----------



## aine

BFF, really inspiring life story. Glad you found your true love and happiness, you deserve it!


----------



## bff

LongWalk said:


> Metaphorically, you have lapped him many times.


This made me smile. :grin2:

bff


----------



## Truthseeker1

@bff Great update - remember this at the end of the day your ex wife only got some money - big deal - what you got is so much more enduring and precious with your new wife and son...it is worth much much more than any money you could have given your XW because her aching for a family will be there long after the cash runs out - best of luck to you.....


----------



## LongWalk

Exactly, the DNA is everything.

As a cheater your ex inwardly hoped the extra sex would get her pregnant. Even though your child is not biologically connected to her, emotionally she probably feels it should have been hers.

Also, she lives in the same house that you bought together. That must remind her of it all.

Sad, really.


----------



## Truthseeker1

LongWalk said:


> Exactly, the DNA is everything.
> 
> As a cheater your ex inwardly hoped the extra sex would get her pregnant. Even though your child is not biologically connected to her, emotionally she probably feels it should have been hers.
> 
> Also, she lives in the same house that you bought together. That must remind her of it all.
> 
> Sad, really.


I can imagine how it must eat at her, if she really wants kids, that her ex has a child now with another woman...but she made her bed and whatever suffering comes her way she has earned.. @bff is doing the right thing - walking away - no drama - and being thankful for his new family - rarely in cases of infidelity do we see a clear winner but here we absolutely have one - bFF has stated he has traded up!


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Truthseeker1 said:


> I can imagine how it must eat at her, if she really wants kids, that her ex has a child now with another woman...*but she made her bed and whatever suffering comes her way she has earned..* @bff is doing the right thing - walking away - no drama - and being thankful for his new family - rarely in cases of infidelity do we see a clear winner but here we absolutely have one - bFF has stated he has traded up!


This brings to mind the old addage "if they cheat with you, they'll cheat on you".

Eventually either his ex, or the OM, will see red flags, or at least seemingly red flags. Once this happens, they're off to the races.
(^^^see what I did there^^^)

It's very likely that her relationship with the OM will be felled by the axe of unfaithfulness.


----------



## sparrow555

bff said:


> The answers to your questions, LongWalk are "awesome" and "no".
> 
> Life is really good! My son is almost a year and a half old, now, and he is an incredible joy for us every single day. My wife is amazing to both me and my son. To say that I've "traded up" my entire life compared to my life a few years ago is the understatement of the century.
> 
> I've bought a house quite far away from where she lives and works, so there's little chance of running into her randomly. I'd like to take my son to see the races some of my old buddies, but when I do, I'll steer him well clear of the ex. I have no need to hurt her (and it WOULD hurt her, I'm sure, to see him) not to mention the risk of how she might react. It's not worth it. I want to run out my alimony obligation (a year and a couple months left) with no more drama and then never have to see, talk to or interact with her ever again.
> 
> bff



I think the way you handled the whole thing is inspirational bff.


----------



## sparrow555

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> This brings to mind the old addage "if they cheat with you, they'll cheat on you".
> 
> Eventually either his ex, or the OM, will see red flags, or at least seemingly red flags. Once this happens, they're off to the races.
> (^^^see what I did there^^^)
> 
> It's very likely that her relationship with the OM will be felled by the axe of unfaithfulness.




Actually the OM could care less if she cheated or not. he used bffs ex to climb socially and lifestyle wise. He is now freeloading and living off their money. 

The only true loser in the situation is bff's ex. 

bff, any idea what this guy is up to these days?


----------



## Truthseeker1

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> This brings to mind the old addage "if they cheat with you, they'll cheat on you".
> 
> Eventually either his ex, or the OM, will see red flags, or at least seemingly red flags. Once this happens, they're off to the races.
> (^^^see what I did there^^^)
> 
> It's very likely that her relationship with the OM will be felled by the axe of unfaithfulness.


When two APs end up together - they deserve to experience all the misery they created in the lives they left behind....


----------



## bff

sparrow555 said:


> bff, any idea what this guy is up to these days?


I honestly don't know. I have some common friends who have enough good sense to not bring him up with me, and I've made no attempt to ask about him or them.

I've heard in passing that they still are "together" at the races, but have no idea nor interest in what that means.

I really wish this wasn't such a public forum, as I'd love to post a picture of my son. He's the cutest little ****** in the whole world, and every day makes me happy with the path I've taken through life since it led to him. A few years of pain and couple dozen checks to a cheater? Who cares. I win.

bff


----------



## alte Dame

Congratulations on your marriage, fatherhood, and happiness with your new life! I'm sure your son is the sweetest boy ever - that's what makes everything worth it. My two children are grown and they bring such immense joy that it's almost indescribable.

So glad for you, bff!


----------



## MattMatt

Earlier today I made reference to a game show where the contestant would win a booby prize but, cruelly, the host would say "But here is what you could have won!" and shows them a new car or whatever the prize was.

You were the main prize and your wife got her booby
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

And it sounds like you will keep winning. :wink2:

Keep on being happy with your family.

That is what life is all about.


----------



## weightlifter

BFF RE Public forum. OTOH. 

You have NO IDEA how many people your thread has helped. It numbers in the HUNDREDS and possibly THOUSANDS. Think on that. Simply by sticking around and showing the path does end on the other side, even at the lowest depths, they can see the possibilities.


----------



## Marc878

BFF once he figured it out never wavered, questioned or looked back. The best action in a bad situation.


----------



## 86857

Marc878 said:


> BFF once he figured it out never wavered, questioned or looked back. The best action in a bad situation.


Somebody mentioned you in another thread @bff along the lines of what @Marc878 said above, to encourage a BS who has just had a D-day. So I had a quick read through your story. Amazing. 

I hope you leave this thread up so BS on here can use it as inspiration. I like when happy endings like this get bumped. There's not enough of them on here & it's great you posted an update. 

Congratulations on your new life. Showing the strength you did through the nightmare, got you to where you are today. 

I'm sure your son is the cutest. 
Nothing better than parenthood & being in the warm embrace of a loving partner IMO. 
That is what it means to be 'rich'.
.


----------



## bff

********** said:


> So I had a quick read through your story.


Quick read? I doubt that's possible. ;-)

Thanks for the kind words. I'm thankful every day that I took the high road and didn't let the negativity drag me down. I'm in a great place because of those decisions. I truly believe that.

Quick update for the folks who have followed along the journey. I got some additional insight from a common acquaintance last week that that XW and OM are, indeed, cohabitating in her house now. Apparently, his parents took over the mortgage on the house he owned with his XGF so he wouldn't get foreclosed on, but they're renting out the house. XW and OM are taking vacations together, etc. In other words, the full definition of cohabitation. 

A friend was able to run the OM's name through People Finder and it does still show that house's address as his primary address even though he isn't living there and it's being rented. So, they're clearly being careful and trying to cover tracks to squeeze every last penny from me before the gravy train pulls out of the station in just over a year.

I thought about getting a PI to check out the comings and goings from my XW's house, but then thought better of it. At best, I would get enough relief from Support to cover the legal costs it would take to get a request for relief through the court. No way to cover the emotional cost of getting involved in another legal tussle.

About 15 or so more checks and I'm done with her (and him) for good. I'll just tough it out.

bff


----------



## MattMatt

bff said:


> Quick read? I doubt that's possible. ;-)
> 
> Thanks for the kind words. I'm thankful every day that I took the high road and didn't let the negativity drag me down. I'm in a great place because of those decisions. I truly believe that.
> 
> Quick update for the folks who have followed along the journey. I got some additional insight from a common acquaintance last week that that XW and OM are, indeed, cohabitating in her house now. Apparently, his parents took over the mortgage on the house he owned with his XGF so he wouldn't get foreclosed on, but they're renting out the house. XW and OM are taking vacations together, etc. In other words, the full definition of cohabitation.
> 
> A friend was able to run the OM's name through People Finder and it does still show that house's address as his primary address even though he isn't living there and it's being rented. So, they're clearly being careful and trying to cover tracks to squeeze every last penny from me before the gravy train pulls out of the station in just over a year.
> 
> I thought about getting a PI to check out the comings and goings from my XW's house, but then thought better of it. At best, I would get enough relief from Support to cover the legal costs it would take to get a request for relief through the court. No way to cover the emotional cost of getting involved in another legal tussle.
> 
> About 15 or so more checks and I'm done with her (and him) for good. I'll just tough it out.
> 
> bff


You could play a reverse D!ck Dastardly? (But not really!)

Offer to increase your payments by $5 a week. With the message: "After all, times must be tough on you if you and OM are having to rent out the house that he and his ex used to live in."


----------



## 86857

@bff. I speed read LOL. 
If you don't need the money & I'm pretty sure you don't, regard whatever you have to pay for the next 15 payments as money well spent, just to watch xWW & OM disappear into the distance in the rearview mirror. 

Heck, it's cheap at the price .


----------



## bff

Hey everyone,

About time for my every-six-months-or-so update. Happily, I have almost nothing to report, which is good news! These days, I'm out looking at pre-schools for my son instead of wasting my time with disloyal "friends" 

I'm under a year now remaining in my alimony obligations. More confirmations of my XW and the OM living together have come in, along with more temptation to do something about it, but I'm sticking by the advice many of you have given - just ride it out. They seem to be doing the same. It'll be interesting to see if things change with them next year after the gravy train pulls out of the station.

Best to all of you,

bff


----------



## TRy

bff said:


> I'm under a year now remaining in my alimony obligations. More confirmations of my XW and the OM living together have come in, along with more temptation to do something about it, but I'm sticking by the advice many of you have given - just ride it out. They seem to be doing the same. It'll be interesting to see if things change with them next year after the gravy train pulls out of the station.


 Check with your attorney, if she is now living with someone that she is in a committed relationship with, you may be able to get the alimony reduced. Although I can see the logic of "just riding it out", I for one would want to do it just because I was tired of being taken advantage of.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

It would make me sick to my stomach if I had to give my wife my hard earned money as she shacks up with the guy who broke up my marriage. What a messed up system.

Stay strong brother.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## farsidejunky

Good to hear from you, brother.


----------



## becareful2

What your exwife and former best friend did to you was so wrong. They have no conscience. Let's see if they can outrun the karma bus.


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## Cynthia

becareful2 said:


> What your exwife and former best friend did to you was so wrong. They have no conscience. Let's see if they can outrun the karma bus.


It's not in the past. People like that get away with their crimes unless someone does something about it.
They had a plan to live off @bff indefinitely. They had it all planned out until they got caught. Then they simply altered their plan to live off him and carry on as normal for as long as possible. They are probably hatching some kind of plan to defraud someone else in some other way.

Seriously, I'd want to stop them from taking further advantage.


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## Wazza

CynthiaDe said:


> It's not in the past. People like that get away with their crimes unless someone does something about it.
> They had a plan to live off @bff indefinitely. They had it all planned out until they got caught. Then they simply altered their plan to live off him and carry on as normal for as long as possible. They are probably hatching some kind of plan to defraud someone else in some other way.
> 
> Seriously, I'd want to stop them from taking further advantage.


I thought bff handled it perfectly.


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## Catfish1986

bff, did great! He missed Lifetime Alimony by only a few months. Yes its not fun paying out for a few years but it's much better than paying the rest of his life!


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## bff

CynthiaDe said:


> Seriously, I'd want to stop them from taking further advantage.


I have struggled with doing "something" versus doing nothing and just riding it out. There are three potential benefits to doing something, as I see it.

1 - There's a possibility of some financial benefit if I file a petition and the judge really wanted to hammer them. I could get the roughly $50k or so that I'll pay over the next 10 months reduced by some amount.

2 - I might feel better about myself for no letting them continue to take advantage of me.

3 - Maybe they'll learn a lesson from this and stop taking advantage of people. (LOL - I couldn't even type that without laughing!!)

I also have several options of what to do:

1 - Go to my attorney, gather some evidence with a PI and then let the court handle it.

2 - Contact my XW and OM and threaten #1

3 - Take some other sort of revenge.

If I execute on #1, it will cost me a bunch of money in PI fees and in attorney fees just to get to the point of filing the petition. Since the OM is not a high earner, and the reduction in support would only be based on how much he contributes to the household, at BEST this would be a break even situation where the reduction in support covers my costs. I think that's a BEST CASE scenario after talking to my attorney about it multiple times over the last 3-4 years.

I'm not sure what just threatening to file petition would do, other than probably just stir the hornets nest. Maybe she'd kick him out. Maybe they'd just have a good laugh at me.

The last option has lots of appeal, but at the very least, it again starts to drag me mentally back into their world instead of just moving on with my own.

At the end of the day, I don't really give a sh*t about balancing the scales of justice or letting them get away with something, I want to do what is best for ME and MY FAMILY. While the money I'm paying in support is a LOT, once you consider that it's all tax deductible to me AND that it would cost a fair amount of money to get that amount reduced, there's no good financial argument to proceed. And the other options will take an emotional toll on me no matter how they play out. I've decided to occasionally dream about #3, but have ruled out #1 or #2.

bff


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## becareful2

@bff,

Don't you now have a baby boy and your exwife is past child bearing age, even though one of the reasons for her cheating was to get pregnant? If so, that's karma, right there.


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## VladDracul

BFF, I haven't read your thread; only the last few post, so I plead ignorance. If you two are divorced, you're apparently paying alimony, and she has some cat on extended stay at her house, how is proving that going to result in a financial or any other benefit to you, unless you can show she committed fraud in getting the court to award alimony? Did the divorce decree say she could date or move a man into her house? As far a benefit from exposing what's going on, it seems everybody and their cousin already knows. 
If you can school me on this, I'd appreciate it. :scratchhead:


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## bandit.45

The trouble you would go through bff would not be worth it. They are scum. Your friends and family know they are scum. Deep down your ex-wife knows she's scum, but her selfishness on't allow her to act on her principles. 

The OM? Fvck him. Let him be the piece of sh!t he is. Once the money runs out he will find another chick to leech off of. It will serve your exWW right if she ends up abandoned. 

You got married in California and there is a price to be paid for getting divorced in California. It is just what it is. Concentrate your energy on your new bride and baby.


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## bff

becareful2: You are correct. EVERYTHING bad in this thread has been 100% worth it, because I now have an awesome wife and a wonderful, healthy son. Karma. Delivered.

bandit.45: Agreed. Thanks for the support.

VladDracul: The alimony that I pay her is based upon our relative incomes and her assumed living expenses. There's a complicated calculation in the CA laws that calculates the alimony based on a bunch of factors. The divorce judgment states that alimony continues until either of us die, she remarries or June 2017, whichever comes first. It also states that if she cohabitates (but does not marry) that she has to notify me, and we are to re-calculate the alimony. The theory here is that to the extent the person she cohabitates with contributes to the household (pays her rent, pays some portion of utilities, pays for the groceries, etc.), her living expenses are reduced and therefore the alimony she receives from me can be reduced accordingly. The way my attorney described the process is that if I have evidence that she is cohabitating and has not disclosed it, then I would need to petition the court and provide "enough" evidence to convince a judge that she "probably" is cohabitating. This could be in form of a PI documenting the OM sleeps there every night (video of him arriving and leaving her driveway every evening/morning) or perhaps some sort of documentation that shows he receives his mail there, etc. etc. I believe it also helps if there's some evidence they are in a "relationship". Testimony from family/friends that they spend holidays together, vacation together, etc. Once you convince a judge that there's smoke, the responsibility to prove there's no fire shifts to the XW. I imagine she'd have to document that she's paying ALL of the living expenses, that he maintains another address, etc. 

Since he makes crap for income, he probably is NOT contributing much to the household. So, even if they are indeed cohabitating (I know this) he probably is NOT paying for much. He's a professional mooch which is documented throughout this long thread/story. So, I likely would not get much alimony relief, I'd just be out all the attorney fees. For that price, I'd just get really good documentation that I am the one supporting his life with my XW.

If she sold her house and was shacking up with a rich man, it would be a whole different story. I could probably get a big portion of my alimony waived.

It ain't fair, but it's the law here in CA.

bff


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## JohnA

I has been awhile since I read your thread. I was under impression you where your son's dad and where raising him but not the bio dad.


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## MattMatt




----------



## bff

JohnA said:


> I has been awhile since I read your thread. I was under impression you where your son's dad and where raising him but not the bio dad.


You must be confusing me with another poster, JohnA. I never had a child with my XW. I remarried and my wife and I have, together, our son of just over 20 months. 

bff


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## JohnA

I must on that thread the posters new girlfriend was all ready pregnant with a guy she was with before he knew her and got dumped for another woman. Like you he was on top of the world raseing his son. Thanks for the response.


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## MattMatt

bff said:


> You must be confusing me with another poster, JohnA. I never had a child with my XW. I remarried and my wife and I have, together, our son of just over 20 months.
> 
> bff


Wasn't she undergoing IVF treatment or something of that nature, bff?


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## TaDor

Well... since they have been co-habitation for so long - perhaps they could include that time frame and reduce what YOU pay her even more? If it cuts your pay in half, it does hurt. And if the cost of it *is* the same as the savings and your lawyer can DO IT with minimal effort on your part - then that allows you to get some revenge that costs you nothing and very little energy and yet - cause her/POSOM more grief.

It shouldn't matter *WHAT* amount the POSOM makes (I would think.) as they are both able-body adults and he should be considered as paying for half of the bills.. there are calculations based on head count, not by actual income... if that can apply. Afterall, what if she had 4 guys living there, charging them for rent... that would change her living expenses, right?


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## alte Dame

I don't know. I tend to lean toward legal revenge that doesn't cost much in terms of time and money. Things like making bad actors THINK that something will happen but perhaps not doing anything. Just letting them stew and watch their backs. Or something real like a call to the IRS. Just some agita coming from places that they can't be sure of.

Frankly, as long as it isn't illegal or expensive or time-consuming, it's worth offering lessons to some people, in my opinion.


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## VladDracul

bff said:


> It also states that if she cohabitates (but does not marry) that she has to notify me, and we are to re-calculate the alimony. The theory here is that to the extent the person she cohabitates with contributes to the household (pays her rent, pays some portion of utilities, pays for the groceries, etc.), her living expenses are reduced and therefore the alimony she receives from me can be reduced accordingly. The way my attorney described the process is that if I have evidence that she is cohabitating and has not disclosed it, then I would need to petition the court and provide "enough" evidence to convince a judge that she "probably" is cohabitating. bff


Have you calculated the cost/benefit of proving she's cohabiting with this cat. If you can show that, the courts may view his living there as de facto contributing to the household and impute an amount of that support. You mentioned a potential savings of 50 large. Could a PI gather enough to prove he's living there and along with attorney fees and court cost, save you enough, after tax saving for alimony, to make it worthwhile?


----------



## Cynthia

bff said:


> If I execute on #1, it will cost me a bunch of money in PI fees and in attorney fees just to get to the point of filing the petition. Since the OM is not a high earner, and the reduction in support would only be based on how much he contributes to the household, at BEST this would be a break even situation where the reduction in support covers my costs. I think that's a BEST CASE scenario after talking to my attorney about it multiple times over the last 3-4 years.
> 
> I'm not sure what just threatening to file petition would do, other than probably just stir the hornets nest. Maybe she'd kick him out. Maybe they'd just have a good laugh at me.


I was under the impression that if she moved in with someone else that all alimony would stop permanently. Now I understand. Thanks for clearing that up. I think you are right to just let it go.


----------



## bff

VladDracul said:


> Have you calculated the cost/benefit of proving she's cohabiting with this cat. If you can show that, the courts may view his living there as de facto contributing to the household and impute an amount of that support. You mentioned a potential savings of 50 large. Could a PI gather enough to prove he's living there and along with attorney fees and court cost, save you enough, after tax saving for alimony, to make it worthwhile?


50 large is the total amount I'll pay between now and the end of June 2017 when alimony ends. If he or 4 other guys were paying her rent, she is obligated by the court order to report that additional income and there's a "bonus calculation" that would then provide me with a credit equal to about 40% of that additional income. So even if he was paying her $1000 a month (which I guarantee you he is not), at most I'd get a few thousand dollars of relief when it was all said and done. And, she's paying a mortgage on the house (like $3k a month) he's living in. I think she's smart enough to not let him pay any of that, lest he make a claim on partial ownership of the house. She also has a nice, new-ish 911 Cabriolet. Same deal there. So the utilities and food are the balance of the expenses that he could be contributing to. That's peanuts.

My attorney charges $425 an hour. PI's aren't cheap. Do the math. :-(

The cost/value of my time (remember, I have a young son!) and the emotional swamp this would drag me back into layered on top of minimal financial upside (and possible downside if legal costs outweigh alimony relief) make it not worth it. My wife is a wonderful person and told me she'd support me in whatever path I choose - if I wanted to go after them - but I know that I'd bring home the emotional baggage with me if I went through with this.

Again - I come back to the decision that the best thing for me and my family is to just let it go. The money isn't important to me. I mean, it's not like $50k isn't a lot of money to me, it's just not that important in the grand scheme of things.

bff


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## bff

alte Dame said:


> Frankly, as long as it isn't illegal or expensive or time-consuming, it's worth offering lessons to some people, in my opinion.


My experience so far with what I thought would be relatively straightforward legal issues associated with this divorce have been extremely expensive, massively time consuming and horribly emotionally draining. My XW has an completely unreasonable pitbull of an attorney. Last time I tried for a small modification to the alimony because I took a lower paying job at a startup, her attorney went on offense and tried to extract MORE alimony from me! It didn't work in the end, but it cost me a lot of money and time to defend against it. Trust me, I absolutely HATE that this aggressive legal tactic has had the desired effect (I'm afraid to go after her to reduce alimony) but once again, I'm just making the most of the situation I find myself in.

If I thought they might actually learn a lesson from anything I did, I might feel differently.

bff


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## See_Listen_Love

bff said:


> 50 large is the total amount I'll pay between now and the end of June 2017 when alimony ends. If he or 4 other guys were paying her rent, she is obligated by the court order to report that additional income and there's a "bonus calculation" that would then provide me with a credit equal to about 40% of that additional income. So even if he was paying her $1000 a month (which I guarantee you he is not), at most I'd get a few thousand dollars of relief when it was all said and done. And, she's paying a mortgage on the house (like $3k a month) he's living in. I think she's smart enough to not let him pay any of that, lest he make a claim on partial ownership of the house. She also has a nice, new-ish 911 Cabriolet. Same deal there. So the utilities and food are the balance of the expenses that he could be contributing to. That's peanuts.
> 
> My attorney charges $425 an hour. PI's aren't cheap. Do the math. :-(
> 
> The cost/value of my time (remember, I have a young son!) and the emotional swamp this would drag me back into layered on top of minimal financial upside (and possible downside if legal costs outweigh alimony relief) make it not worth it. My wife is a wonderful person and told me she'd support me in whatever path I choose - if I wanted to go after them - but I know that I'd bring home the emotional baggage with me if I went through with this.
> 
> Again - I come back to the decision that the best thing for me and my family is to just let it go. The money isn't important to me. I mean, it's not like $50k isn't a lot of money to me, it's just not that important in the grand scheme of things.
> 
> bff


One to admire bff, you choose a new life which is soo much more liberating than miserating about old losses. :toast:


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## bandit.45

TaDor said:


> Well... since they have been co-habitation for so long - perhaps they could include that time frame and reduce what YOU pay her even more? If it cuts your pay in half, it does hurt. And if the cost of it *is* the same as the savings and your lawyer can DO IT with minimal effort on your part - then that allows you to get some revenge that costs you nothing and very little energy and yet - cause her/POSOM more grief.
> 
> It shouldn't matter *WHAT* amount the POSOM makes (I would think.) as they are both able-body adults and he should be considered as paying for half of the bills.. there are calculations based on head count, not by actual income... if that can apply. Afterall, what if she had 4 guys living there, charging them for rent... that would change her living expenses, right?


The amount of money he would have to lay down for a PI and lawyer would end up costing him much more in the long term than just paying the b!tch off as he is doing, and would never be offset by any pittance he would end up saving for reduced alimony. There is no net financial benefit here. 

California is a tough state to get married and divorced in, and divorce lawyers there charge about 30% higher fees than those in the rest of the country. And San Francisco? Oh god......


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## Seppuku

Read this whole thread, what an accomplishment. Congrats on the outcome.


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## weightlifter

#stamps BFF's man card with a brass balls endorsement.

Uh folks remember BFF is at worst in the upper 5% of income and sometimes you have to look at the overall strategy. I knew a couple that spent 60K in lawyers fighting over the last 10K in assets.

BFF. Never ever delete this thread. It has helped THOUSANDS of people by this point. Ive worked with people who PMed me who never had a thread and pointed them here.

Hell, it should be stickied.


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## RWB

bandit.45 said:


> The amount of money he would have to lay down for a PI and lawyer would end up costing him much more in the long term than just paying the b!tch off as he is doing, and would never be offset by any pittance he would end up saving for reduced alimony. * There is no net financial benefit here. *
> 
> California is a tough state to get married and divorced in, and divorce lawyers there charge about 30% higher fees than those in the rest of the country. And San Francisco? Oh god......





weightlifter said:


> Uh folks remember BFF is at worst in the upper 5% of income and sometimes *you have to look at the overall strategy. * I knew *a couple that spent 60K in lawyers fighting over the last 10K in assets.*


California, married 10+ years, no fault is a 50/50 split by law. Now what's is 50% is all for the $Lawyers$ to hash out. Meaning... somebody's going to get screwed.:surprise:
@bandit.45 *There is no net financial benefit here.*

With divorce rates for all reason including cheating, marriage is by far the most financial risk a man can undertake. Personally, betting on the ponies at the track is a safer proposition. If a man looked at marriage as a financial risk/reward business proposition... how many would willingly assume the risk?

In all honesty (me), how many men are _willing_ to R with a cheating wife because _"for the children"_ when in reality the potential financial ruin is paramount in their reasoning? No shame, just good reasonable business sense.


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## TaDor

After bff's explaining his XW's lawyer's tactics... then its understandable. It would be different if it would get him back $20k or more back.

I would *think* that the courts (I would) count the POSOM as paying the bills - since he's living there. Otherwise, he is purposely just living off the bff.

Reading most of this thread, and the lovely wife and child he has NOW... and while the $50K loss sucks - he's still financially good (that is a ton bunch of money to me. I could start a new biz with that) but mainly dealing with the POS-XW's lawyer, the drama isn't worth it. Hey, maybe those low-lifes will buy a ton of crack with the money and end up on the streets in 18 months?

I hate dealing with lawyers or the idea of burning money paying them. $60K to fight over $10K - that is pure STUPIDITY! A friend of mine went through a divorce, between her and her jerk-EX, they spent about $200,000! That could have gone towards their kids's education, etc. Even though he still went to college, etc. Its like, why not SIT down and break up and be done with it? Another friend spent $400, done. I'm glad it only cost me a few hundred dollars as I filed myself and my WW worked on an agreement as we both didn't want to go to court and she would have lost, plus the costs of a lawyer. (I'm Not in California)


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## VladDracul

BFF problem from my perspective:

Having to pay alimony until June 2017 --$50,000.

Getting rid of her --priceless.


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## leon1

I wouldnt do anything legal wise . But i would consider leaving it till before xmas and letting her know that you heard about them living together and are considering your options . If they are still hiding it at that stage it might make there xmas holidays a little bit on edge if they think you have a pi watching them .


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## bandit.45

If WWIII breaks out and America is attacked, they need to take all lawyers into custody and use them to build a long human wall around the perimeter of the country. As many lawyers as there are in the U.S. they should stretch around our borders completely. That way when the tanks roll in they are the first to get croaked.


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## bff

Thanks for the support, everyone. Bandit, I don't disagree about the lawyers, but in the end, my lawyer did right by me. A fair amount of the net-worth of my XW and I was tied up in stock options that I held that were partially vested during our marriage, partially after the separation. There's surprisingly little law and precedent on how to deal with this. I believe she negotiated a division of that property that was quite favorable to me. She also got the other lawyer and my XW to agree to a yearly maximum income for me above which I don't have to pay any incremental alimony (any additional income I get now - like bonuses or realized investment gains - I have to pay XW about 40% of). This worked out REALLY well for me about 3 years ago. I hit the maximum and was able to liquidate a bunch of stock options and not pay a cent in alimony on them. My XW's attorney realized I did this - sold a bunch of stock in the last week of the calendar year to avoid paying alimony on it - and actually argued to the court that doing so "wasn't in the best interests of her client." The judge literally laughed at her when she made that argument.

I paid more than I should have to the attorney, but in the end I feel like it was worth it.

Leon - I've thought about doing what you've suggested. Although it makes me smirk to think about it, I don't think I will do it. I've read other places in this forum that doing so is essentially trying to "control" what my XW and the POS OM do. That just sucks me back into their world. Even if I spend a little time imagining them looking over their shoulders or parking down the block and sneaking through back yards to avoid a non-existent PI, that's attention I'm taking away from my wife and son.

bff


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## Cynthia

bff said:


> Leon - I've thought about doing what you've suggested. Although it makes me smirk to think about it, I don't think I will do it. I've read other places in this forum that doing so is essentially trying to "control" what my XW and the POS OM do. That just sucks me back into their world. Even if I spend a little time imagining them looking over their shoulders or parking down the block and sneaking through back yards to avoid a non-existent PI, that's attention I'm taking away from my wife and son.
> 
> bff


This is a healthy point of view. This is how we should all view our family. Worthy of our time and attention above all others.


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## TaDor

bandit.45 said:


> If WWIII breaks out and America is attacked, they need to take all lawyers into custody and use them to build a long human wall around the perimeter of the country. As many lawyers as there are in the U.S. they should stretch around our borders completely. That way when the tanks roll in they are the first to get croaked.


YEP! My WW meet her lawyer at the courthouse when dealing with the DV charge against her. I had already signed paperwork at the DA that makes them drop the case... but she still had to show up.
Anyway, the DA told me they were done. But at this time, I had kicked out my WW. She was paying him $250 a month x 8 months to keep her from going to court. I thought things didn't seem right and I have some experience dealing with legal matters (Why I was able filed against her without a lawyer). Her lawyer sent her a letter "You have a court date on Sept 28 2016, you don't have to be there as I will represent you" + reminder her that she is behind on payment.
Because of her work hours, I went to the court clerk to check on the case filings and see what WAS really going on. As a I worked with a lawyer years ago said who with said, "don't trust your own lawyer". Guess what? No court dates. Nothing filed. No representation. Nothing. My WW case is in a dormant-limbo (charged, but no court) as is our State's practice IN CASE she gets a charge in the next 12 months. Gee... she got screwed out of only $500, but with my help she will no longer be sending him money.

I don't like lawyers...


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## MattMatt

TaDor said:


> YEP! My WW meet her lawyer at the courthouse when dealing with the DV charge against her. I had already signed paperwork at the DA that makes them drop the case... but she still had to show up.
> Anyway, the DA told me they were done. But at this time, I had kicked out my WW. She was paying him $250 a month x 8 months to keep her from going to court. I thought things didn't seem right and I have some experience dealing with legal matters (Why I was able filed against her without a lawyer). Her lawyer sent her a letter "You have a court date on Sept 28 2016, you don't have to be there as I will represent you" + reminder her that she is behind on payment.
> Because of her work hours, I went to the court clerk to check on the case filings and see what WAS really going on. As a I worked with a lawyer years ago said who with said, "don't trust your own lawyer". Guess what? No court dates. Nothing filed. No representation. Nothing. My WW case is in a dormant-limbo (charged, but no court) as is our State's practice IN CASE she gets a charge in the next 12 months. Gee... she got screwed out of only $500, but with my help she will no longer be sending him money.
> 
> I don't like lawyers...


Report the lawyer?


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## Seppuku

MattMatt said:


> Report the lawyer?


+1

That is unscrupulous.


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## TaDor

Not shocked... many lawyers are scum. Just gotta hope for the best with what you get.


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## knightRider

Just gone this whole thread. What an outstanding example on how to handle a split with integrity, well done bff!


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## phillybeffandswiss

Good choice Bff. I paid a small amount of child support even though my daughter lived with me. Yes, I could have stopped it, but at the end of the day the cost would have saved me a negligible amount. Why deal with the drama and most likely higher CS, when I had my daughter like I wanted in the first place? So, I let it go. I ended up in a much happier place. 


The end is in sight, why rock the boat at this late juncture? Heck, with the games some lawyers play, It'd be in your best interest to save any money for any stupidity that may appear when May and June roll around. People act stupid when the money train is coming to an end.


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## bff

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Heck, with the games some lawyers play, It'd be in your best interest to save any money for any stupidity that may appear when May and June roll around. People act stupid when the money train is coming to an end.


I've already braced myself for this. I assume at the very least they'll ask for my last two tax returns and scour them for any gains I might have had and not "reported" to my PoSXW. She's got nothing to lose at that point except attorney fees. I sort of hope she's spent every dime I've given her and can't even afford an attorney at that point! I hear she's driving a nice convertible 911 these days.

bff


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## Marc878

Put a pic of you and your family in with the last check. 

Put "thanks" I wouldn't have this if not for you.


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## bff

So did anyone think this would end without a little more drama? XW has gotten a sizable bonus every six months like clockwork for the last 5 years. I get a credit towards support I have to pay equal to about 50% of her bonus. Now that support ends in June, her February bonus is all of a sudden "in question". They are moving offices and her boss may need to "conserve cash" she says. I'm guessing in another week or two, the story is that she won't get a bonus until after June.

This is material $$$. After taxes, it's $5k to me. Hard to imagine I would end up ahead if I got my attorney involved and we tried so subpoena her boss to confirm that everyone's bonuses were deferred, not just hers. Looks like she's still trying to make one last money grab, and will probably get away with it.

bff


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## farsidejunky

No surprise.

She is as callous as ever.

You still have to smile every time you realize she is HIS problem...


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## Marc878

Yeah but once that last check is written it's completely over. You can go completely dark forever.


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## Marc878

farsidejunky said:


> No surprise.
> 
> She is as callous as ever.
> 
> You still have to smile every time you realize she is HIS problem...


The reality is she's his meal ticket. Probably the only reason he's hung on. 

Then again there's the "birds of a feather" thing.


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## adegirl2016

Thank you for keeping this thread going. I am 2 months from d day. I keep telling myself I deserve and could have a better life. You are proof of that. Thank you.


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## Nucking Futs

bff said:


> So did anyone think this would end without a little more drama? XW has gotten a sizable bonus every six months like clockwork for the last 5 years. I get a credit towards support I have to pay equal to about 50% of her bonus. Now that support ends in June, her February bonus is all of a sudden "in question". They are moving offices and her boss may need to "conserve cash" she says. I'm guessing in another week or two, the story is that she won't get a bonus until after June.
> 
> This is material $$$. After taxes, it's $5k to me. Hard to imagine I would end up ahead if I got my attorney involved and we tried so subpoena her boss to confirm that everyone's bonuses were deferred, not just hers. Looks like she's still trying to make one last money grab, and will probably get away with it.
> 
> bff


Would it cost more than that to take her to court? If not I'd do it. You won't come out any better but if you don't she's going to get an extra $5k of your money. Just delivering the subpoena to the boss might be enough to shake it loose.


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## bff

adegirl2016 said:


> I am 2 months from d day. I keep telling myself I deserve and could have a better life.


There's absolutely no doubt about that! Focus on the positive, take the high road and you can rebuild a wonderful life.


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## bff

Nucking Futs said:


> Would it cost more than that to take her to court? If not I'd do it. You won't come out any better but if you don't she's going to get an extra $5k of your money. Just delivering the subpoena to the boss might be enough to shake it loose.


I've got a call into my attorney. I'll speak to her this week. I'm willing to invest a little money to keep things on the up and up. I have a hard time believing her boss (the owner of the company) would lie for her or put his own business' reputation at risk to help her save a few grand.

Perhaps it might not even take a subpoena, but just an official, aggressive letter to the owner to shake it loose, as you said.


----------



## alte Dame

One would like to think that someone who did what your XW did to your marriage would have some shame, but she has never shown any, has she?

They say the best revenge is living well and I know that you are not the vengeful type, but I have to say that your good life now will be even better when she is finally out of it.

Hope your family is well, bff.


----------



## bff

Hey gang,

Quick check in as the I'm nearing the end of this nearly 5 year saga. I have only 2 more months of spousal support left!!! Can I get an AMEN??

A good friend of mine who still talks to many people who are close to my XW and the OM told me today that they're planning to get married "soon". I assume "soon" means as soon as my spousal support runs out. I've known for a long time that he's been living with her and she hasn't disclosed it which violates the dissolution court order, as this would reduce my support burden. And now it's clear they've wanted to marry, which would end spousal support, but they've waited patiently to milk the last dollars from me.

My friend was sort of afraid to tell me. He was worried how I'd react. I told him it's par for the course. I'm actually a little surprised. I figured that my XW would have seen how bad the higher earner gets screwed by divorce in California and she would be reticent to marry the financial disaster that is the OM.

If they take vows to be with each other forever, well, I can't possibly imagine a better revenge for me. I'd call this "closure"


----------



## Malaise

May they get all that they deserve


----------



## TaDor

May the karma bus roll down a mountain, into a lake of crocs and molten lava. Yep, Lava Crocs.


----------



## goingsolo12

TaDor said:


> May the karma bus roll down a mountain, into a lake of crocs and molten lava. Yep, Lava Crocs.


I hope the bus catches fire on the way down to the lake of lava and both the scumbags get to see all the nasty selfish things they did on a big screen inside the bus as the fire consumes them. >


----------



## manwithnoname

goingsolo12 said:


> I hope the bus catches fire on the way down to the lake of lava and both the scumbags get to see all the nasty selfish things they did on a big screen inside the bus as the fire consumes them. >



And a huge flock of seagulls flies towards the bus and they all **** at the perfect time to shower them with **** through the window.


----------



## Satya

Just leave them in the dust where they belong. 

Onwards and upwards for you!


----------



## wmn1

bff said:


> Hey gang,
> 
> Quick check in as the I'm nearing the end of this nearly 5 year saga. I have only 2 more months of spousal support left!!! Can I get an AMEN??
> 
> A good friend of mine who still talks to many people who are close to my XW and the OM told me today that they're planning to get married "soon". I assume "soon" means as soon as my spousal support runs out. I've known for a long time that he's been living with her and she hasn't disclosed it which violates the dissolution court order, as this would reduce my support burden. And now it's clear they've wanted to marry, which would end spousal support, but they've waited patiently to milk the last dollars from me.
> 
> My friend was sort of afraid to tell me. He was worried how I'd react. I told him it's par for the course. I'm actually a little surprised. I figured that my XW would have seen how bad the higher earner gets screwed by divorce in California and she would be reticent to marry the financial disaster that is the OM.
> 
> If they take vows to be with each other forever, well, I can't possibly imagine a better revenge for me. I'd call this "closure"



California, NJ and NY's laws $uck.

I wish you could have hired a PI in order to prove they were living together.

How much of a financial disaster will these two be after the spousal support is done ? Compared to you ? I just want to know because I want to imagine their pain in order to brighten my day


----------



## MattMatt

bff said:


> Hey gang,
> 
> Quick check in as the I'm nearing the end of this nearly 5 year saga. I have only 2 more months of spousal support left!!! Can I get an AMEN??
> 
> A good friend of mine who still talks to many people who are close to my XW and the OM told me today that they're planning to get married "soon". I assume "soon" means as soon as my spousal support runs out. I've known for a long time that he's been living with her and she hasn't disclosed it which violates the dissolution court order, as this would reduce my support burden. And now it's clear they've wanted to marry, which would end spousal support, but they've waited patiently to milk the last dollars from me.
> 
> My friend was sort of afraid to tell me. He was worried how I'd react. I told him it's par for the course. I'm actually a little surprised. I figured that my XW would have seen how bad the higher earner gets screwed by divorce in California and she would be reticent to marry the financial disaster that is the OM.
> 
> If they take vows to be with each other forever, well, I can't possibly imagine a better revenge for me. I'd call this "closure"


----------



## bff

First of all, thanks everyone for the graphic karma images. Made my day!



wmn1 said:


> How much of a financial disaster will these two be after the spousal support is done ? Compared to you ? I just want to know because I want to imagine their pain in order to brighten my day


Regarding this, it's all relative. They earn respectable salaries, but neither of them is a responsible consumer, and they over spend. They have a very expensive hobby (auto racing). Neither lives within their means, so I see expensive sports cars, race cars, tow vehicles, etc. in their future, all highly leveraged with life crusher that is high interest credit card debt. She probably earns a third to 50% more than he does. Together they earn much less than half of what my wife and I earn. In fact, my wife now earns more than they do, combined. :-D 

I honestly hope they live happily ever after. But the more likely scenario is that after a few years he loses his job, tension builds because she's paying all the bills and he can't find a job, they end up divorcing and she has to pay him 40% of her salary (and he has claim to part of the house) for a few years. THAT, my friends, would a flaming karma bus into hot magma for her. The OM, he seems to be a survivor and a parasite. He'll find another host.


----------



## wmn1

bff said:


> First of all, thanks everyone for the graphic karma images. Made my day!
> 
> 
> 
> Regarding this, it's all relative. They earn respectable salaries, but neither of them is a responsible consumer, and they over spend. They have a very expensive hobby (auto racing). Neither lives within their means, so I see expensive sports cars, race cars, tow vehicles, etc. in their future, all highly leveraged with life crusher that is high interest credit card debt. She probably earns a third to 50% more than he does. Together they earn much less than half of what my wife and I earn. In fact, my wife now earns more than they do, combined. :-D
> 
> I honestly hope they live happily ever after. But the more likely scenario is that after a few years he loses his job, tension builds because she's paying all the bills and he can't find a job, they end up divorcing and she has to pay him 40% of her salary (and he has claim to part of the house) for a few years. THAT, my friends, would a flaming karma bus into hot magma for her. The OM, he seems to be a survivor and a parasite. He'll find another host.


good for you brother. Karma is a *****. Le them wallow in it. It is great that you upped your game and found someone better. For once, some story ends up good.

Foreard and move on and Godspeed from here on out Keep us posted. I am laughing for you as you came out on top. Thank God for that


----------



## wmn1

bff said:


> First of all, thanks everyone for the graphic karma images. Made my day!
> 
> 
> 
> Regarding this, it's all relative. They earn respectable salaries, but neither of them is a responsible consumer, and they over spend. They have a very expensive hobby (auto racing). Neither lives within their means, so I see expensive sports cars, race cars, tow vehicles, etc. in their future, all highly leveraged with life crusher that is high interest credit card debt. She probably earns a third to 50% more than he does. Together they earn much less than half of what my wife and I earn. In fact, my wife now earns more than they do, combined. :-D
> 
> I honestly hope they live happily ever after. But the more likely scenario is that after a few years he loses his job, tension builds because she's paying all the bills and he can't find a job, they end up divorcing and she has to pay him 40% of her salary (and he has claim to part of the house) for a few years. THAT, my friends, would a flaming karma bus into hot magma for her. The OM, he seems to be a survivor and a parasite. He'll find another host.


it's almost like a disease, the OM. 

I am glad you are gone from it.

Keep moving forward bro and celebrate your new life


----------



## TaDor

Fantasy thoughts are always fun... they should anyway. 

There is a movie in which a guy drives off a cliff, into a pond below. He swims away as the car explodes, he's attacked in the water by an animal (I think a gator), gets away and other bad things happen that I cannot remember - it was almost 30 years ago. It was funny.

I remember a bit over a year ago when my WW and I were co-parenting and she posted a meme on FB and tagged me: about the benefits of parents being good at co-parenting is good for the child. This was after we had a truce of posting our crap on FB. In which I THEN totally bombed her post with about 15 memes about being a cheater, that breaking up the family was harmful to children, lies, betrayal, etc. I think some of that got her thinking about life choices.  Boy was she pissed when I did that.


----------



## MattMatt

TaDor said:


> Fantasy thoughts are always fun... they should anyway.
> 
> There is a movie in which a guy drives off a cliff, into a pond below. He swims away as the car explodes, he's attacked in the water by an animal (I think a gator), gets away and other bad things happen that I cannot remember - it was almost 30 years ago. It was funny.
> 
> I remember a bit over a year ago when my WW and I were co-parenting and she posted a meme on FB and tagged me: about the benefits of parents being good at co-parenting is good for the child. This was after we had a truce of posting our crap on FB. In which I THEN totally bombed her post with about 15 memes about being a cheater, that breaking up the family was harmful to children, lies, betrayal, etc. I think some of that got her thinking about life choices.  Boy was she pissed when I did that.


----------



## goingsolo12

@bff

This thread actually contains a message of hope, it shows that life can actually be better when you get out of infidelity. @bff you did not wait for infidelity to ruin you emotionally and financially, you took the required necessary steps, showed tremendous self belief and got of the morose situation. I applaud you for that. You kept your moral dignity and life has rewarded you in spades. I am so happy for you. I hope you keep doing well in life. My wishes are with you and your family.  

All the best.


----------



## DayOne

MattMatt said:


>


Our colonial cousins will have NO idea who that is! :grin2:


----------



## MattMatt

DayOne said:


> Our colonial cousins will have NO idea who that is! :grin2:


True! Windsor Davies one of the best Welsh actors of his generation.


----------



## bff

MattMatt said:


> True! Windsor Davies one of the best Welsh actors of his generation.


I admit I had to look it up.
@goingsolo12 Thanks for the kind words. Anyone I meet or talk to who is in a similar situation I give the same advice - take the high road at every intersection and you'll have no regrets.

bff


----------



## bff

TAM Friends,

Today I sent my LAST spousal support payment, almost 5 years after this all started. It's technically not over until the end of the month, but I made the last payment a couple weeks early so I could wrap this all up and put it behind me. I sent a nice email to my XW saying that I sincerely wish her the best in the future. She replied saying the same, nothing more.

I'll say one last time THANK YOU to all of you who weighed in on my thread throughout the years. Whether I agreed or disagreed with any advice offered, whether I took it or not, it doesn't matter. Every single one of you contributed in some way to my journey through suspecting, discovering and dealing with her infidelity and then walking the path to a new life. And for that, I thank each and every one of you.

It seems pretty fitting that I am able to wrap this up all just before Father's Day, as my wife and my boy have taken me down a whole new path in life. As my buddy said to me this morning, it's not just a new chapter, but a whole new book.

Let's call this officially "over" and also a success story.

Take care, friends.

bff


----------



## MattMatt

bff said:


> TAM Friends,
> 
> Today I sent my LAST spousal support payment, almost 5 years after this all started. It's technically not over until the end of the month, but I made the last payment a couple weeks early so I could wrap this all up and put it behind me. I sent a nice email to my XW saying that I sincerely wish her the best in the future. She replied saying the same, nothing more.
> 
> I'll say one last time THANK YOU to all of you who weighed in on my thread throughout the years. Whether I agreed or disagreed with any advice offered, whether I took it or not, it doesn't matter. Every single one of you contributed in some way to my journey through suspecting, discovering and dealing with her infidelity and then walking the path to a new life. And for that, I thank each and every one of you.
> 
> It seems pretty fitting that I am able to wrap this up all just before Father's Day, as my wife and my boy have taken me down a whole new path in life. As my buddy said to me this morning, it's not just a new chapter, but a whole new book.
> 
> Let's call this officially "over" and also a success story.
> 
> Take care, friends.
> 
> bff


Thank you for the update, bff.

You are a true hero to all on TAM, with the way you handled what transpired. :allhail:

Please don't be a stranger.


----------



## TX-SC

Congratulations to you on finally putting all of this behind you. Enjoy your new life and your new family!


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

bff said:


> I admit I had to look it up.


Ditto. 
I don't watch much TV, but about 80% of what I watch is British (via Netflix or PBS). Looks like his heyday was prior to my discovering higher quality programming. I shall have to see if I can access some of his work.


----------



## weightlifter

bff said:


> TAM Friends,
> 
> Today I sent my LAST spousal support payment, almost 5 years after this all started. It's technically not over until the end of the month, but I made the last payment a couple weeks early so I could wrap this all up and put it behind me. I sent a nice email to my XW saying that I sincerely wish her the best in the future. She replied saying the same, nothing more.
> 
> I'll say one last time THANK YOU to all of you who weighed in on my thread throughout the years. Whether I agreed or disagreed with any advice offered, whether I took it or not, it doesn't matter. Every single one of you contributed in some way to my journey through suspecting, discovering and dealing with her infidelity and then walking the path to a new life. And for that, I thank each and every one of you.
> 
> It seems pretty fitting that I am able to wrap this up all just before Father's Day, as my wife and my boy have taken me down a whole new path in life. As my buddy said to me this morning, it's not just a new chapter, but a whole new book.
> 
> Let's call this officially "over" and also a success story.
> 
> Take care, friends.
> 
> bff


In the long run, you won. There are 10 paths from A to B and life never provides a straight path. You won. Nothing to disagree with.

This is one of my two pointers (The other is Whyeme) for those just starting the difficult path through being cheated on. This thread show there is hope. The path is long and brutal, but it does end and end well if you let it.


----------



## turnera

Wow!


----------



## Malaise

Well played, Sir.


----------



## Marc878

bff said:


> TAM Friends,
> 
> Today I sent my LAST spousal support payment, almost 5 years after this all started. It's technically not over until the end of the month, but I made the last payment a couple weeks early so I could wrap this all up and put it behind me. I sent a nice email to my XW saying that I sincerely wish her the best in the future. She replied saying the same, nothing more.
> 
> I'll say one last time THANK YOU to all of you who weighed in on my thread throughout the years. Whether I agreed or disagreed with any advice offered, whether I took it or not, it doesn't matter. Every single one of you contributed in some way to my journey through suspecting, discovering and dealing with her infidelity and then walking the path to a new life. And for that, I thank each and every one of you.
> 
> It seems pretty fitting that I am able to wrap this up all just before Father's Day, as my wife and my boy have taken me down a whole new path in life. As my buddy said to me this morning, it's not just a new chapter, but a whole new book.
> 
> Let's call this officially "over" and also a success story.
> 
> Take care, friends.
> 
> bff


IMO you should block everything as a last act.


----------



## bff

I thought my last post would close this out for good, but I had to share the latest and hopefully last update:

My XW and the OM got married about two weeks after the alimony was finished. In that relationship, Money > Love. 

Now that they TRULY have each other, my revenge is complete.

bff


----------



## *Deidre*

bff said:


> I thought my last post would close this out for good, but I had to share the latest and hopefully last update:
> 
> My XW and the OM got married about two weeks after the alimony was finished. In that relationship, Money > Love.
> 
> Now that they TRULY have each other, my revenge is complete.
> 
> bff


I skimmed through this thread, but congrats on getting out and moving on with your life!

I find it sad that men have to pay ''spousal support'' even when they didn't do anything wrong. Oh well, good luck with new adventures!


----------



## Truthseeker1

bff said:


> I thought my last post would close this out for good, but I had to share the latest and hopefully last update:
> 
> My XW and the OM got married about two weeks after the alimony was finished. In that relationship, Money > Love.
> 
> Now that they TRULY have each other, my revenge is complete.
> 
> bff


That should be one "special" marriage. I hope they both get the future they so richly deserve.


----------



## Marc878

Were you not invited to the wedding?

How rude!!!!


Hahahahahaha


----------



## bff

Marc878 said:


> Were you not invited to the wedding?


I know, right??

Was thinking of sending them my covert video camera and voice recorders as a wedding gift. Sooner or later, one of them will need all that stuff.


----------



## Truthseeker1

bff said:


> I know, right??
> 
> Was thinking of sending them my covert video camera and voice recorders as a wedding gift. Sooner or later, one of them will need all that stuff.


----------



## Truthseeker1

bff said:


> I know, right??
> 
> Was thinking of sending them my covert video camera and voice recorders as a wedding gift. Sooner or later, one of them will need all that stuff.


Any man who moves in on his best friends wife is an irredeemable POS - he is no man but a punk and a mutt. Hope he gets plowed by the karma bus..wait he married your XW so he already did. lol


----------



## honcho

bff said:


> I thought my last post would close this out for good, but I had to share the latest and hopefully last update:
> 
> My XW and the OM got married about two weeks after the alimony was finished. In that relationship, Money > Love.
> 
> Now that they TRULY have each other, my revenge is complete.
> 
> bff


It'll never happen but in circumstances like this you ought to be able to recoup part of the alimony. It's legalized robbery. They could at least send you a piece of cake since you paid for it....


----------



## Truthseeker1

honcho said:


> It'll never happen but in circumstances like this you ought to be able to recoup part of the alimony. It's legalized robbery. They could at least send you a piece of cake since you paid for it....


Wait until the money gets tight without Bff around to write the check...lets see how long their "love" lasts...and if I was in a circle of friends that accepted a couple like this - well I'd no longer be part of that circle of friends - honor seems to be in short supply these days...a couple like this should be ostracized - period.


----------



## sokillme

bff said:


> I thought my last post would close this out for good, but I had to share the latest and hopefully last update:
> 
> My XW and the OM got married about two weeks after the alimony was finished. In that relationship, Money > Love.
> 
> Now that they TRULY have each other, my revenge is complete.
> 
> bff


Two people so in love that they basically waited until the gravy train from the ex was over to profess before God and their families. You think your ex friend would be embarrassed to have anther man support his love while she enjoys the spoils of it. Not much of a man, but we knew that. You are SO lucky to have those wonderful people gone from your life. They truly do deserve each other. There morals are a barren as your ex's womb. OUCH!

> I'm a stinker I know.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Bff, last month when you sent her the last of the 5 years worth of alimony payments you sincerely wrote here that you wrote her and you wished her the best. I thought to myself you are way too nice a gentlemen to that pair of snakes but I kept it to myself. That you have since had a child but kept your new family at a distance at the races so as to not humiliate her - as she had problems conceiving and was on IVF treatments (while banging her lover behind your back). You are a very kind gentlemen. Myself, I hope you have 8 more kids and that you parade them right in front of them at your car shows whilst completely ignoring them. They deserve to see your new happiness.


----------



## Graywolf2

bff said:


> I thought my last post would close this out for good, but I had to share the latest and hopefully last update:
> 
> My XW and the OM got married about two weeks after the alimony was finished. In that relationship, Money > Love.


People do bad things. People have affairs. But that's an entirely new level of bad. She had two husbands for years. You should have just paid her half the alimony because you had half a marriage. For the two of them to soak your for the very last dime is evil. I bet when they received your last check early they said now we can move up the wedding date. 

IMO the affair was nothing compared to that. Any price is worth it to get those snakes out of your life. What upsets me is that I bet they think that they are good people.


----------



## TaDor

8 more kids? That would be punishment for BFF and especially his wife! One or two kids is already a handful.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

TaDor said:


> 8 more kids? That would be punishment for BFF and especially his wife! One or two kids is already a handful.


Nahh, he can afford and has the perfect disposition!


----------



## TaDor

I think I'd rather have 8 wives with 1 child from each...  That would really sting her, no?

The one kid is enough. We shall wish the worst for them.


----------



## bff

I got some seriously good laughs from your responses, folks. @sokillme wins both cruelest and funniest!

It's inevitable that she'll eventually see my son with me. That'll gut her. 

I just hope they stay married long enough that when he finally cheats on her and they get divorced, she will get to pay him alimony for a good, long time (he will NEVER be the high earner). Her mom has a couple million $$ and is in her mid 80's. He's definitely going to get a chunk of that, now!

bff


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

bff said:


> I got some seriously good laughs from your responses, folks. @sokillme wins both cruelest and funniest!
> 
> It's inevitable that she'll eventually see my son with me. That'll gut her.
> 
> I just hope they stay married long enough that when he finally cheats on her and they get divorced, she will get to pay him alimony for a good, long time (he will NEVER be the high earner). Her mom has a couple million $$ and is in her mid 80's. He's definitely going to get a chunk of that, now!
> 
> bff


Poetic justice indeed!!


----------



## Marc878

I hope you've now blocked her on everything.


----------



## bff

Marc878 said:


> I hope you've now blocked her on everything.


I did that as soon as we were separated. The only exception is twitter, where she's still a follower. I rarely use that account, but you can bet that when I do, it's going to be pics of my family!


----------



## Vinnydee

I lost my ex fiancee and an ex girlfriend to my best friends. When it comes to sex trust no man. No matter what they say, they want to have sex with your wife. They will befriend her, take her side in arguments and agree with all that she says. She will pour her heart out and complain about you. Then when there is a fight or they just secretly meet for drinks or a meal, they strike, especially if there is alcohol and emotions involved. I think we all know by now that feelings can turn into love real quick. 

I was a nice guy and had no problem in having my exes go out with my friends or have them keep an eye on her when I went out of town for a few weeks. Big mistake I never repeated. My wife has no male friends and I have no female friends. Most men view women as potential mates even if they do not realize their genetic urges. I find that you should have a healthy mistrust of everyone. I know husbands and wives who easily cheated because their spouses could not believe that they would cheat. I traveled with many of them on business. Every boss I had over the last 47 years, males and females, cheated on their trusting spouses and never got caught. I have job security because I came across emails between my boss and one of her employees that was very explicit. I merely reminded them that company emails are not private and perhaps they would like to delete any that they did not want archived for 7 years. They know that I know. Anyone can cheat, even the most faithful wife or husband under the right circumstances. A little alcohol or weak emotional moment is all that is needed.


----------



## MattMatt

bff said:


> I got some seriously good laughs from your responses, folks. @sokillme wins both cruelest and funniest!
> 
> It's inevitable that she'll eventually see my son with me. That'll gut her.
> 
> I just hope they stay married long enough that when he finally cheats on her and they get divorced, she will get to pay him alimony for a good, long time (he will NEVER be the high earner). Her mom has a couple million $$ and is in her mid 80's. He's definitely going to get a chunk of that, now!
> 
> bff


Unless she made him sign a prenup?

And I wonder if, in a few years time, you might receive a late night, hysterical, drunken call from him: "bff! I am so sorry for what I did to you and your marriage. But I thought it was true love, because she came on to me. But now she has cheated on me!"


----------



## MattMatt

Marc878 said:


> Were you not invited to the wedding?
> 
> How rude!!!!
> 
> 
> Hahahahahaha


I was invited to the wedding of an ex who had dumped me for a millionaire property developer (who turned out to be a penniless, convicted fraudster who lived with his mom in a two up two down terraced house in the red light district of a failed industrial city). She was marrying someone else, less than a year after she cheated on me/dumped me.

I did not even bother to reply to the invitation.


----------



## Talker67

MattMatt said:


> I was invited to the wedding of an ex who had dumped me for a millionaire property developer (who turned out to be a penniless, convicted fraudster who lived with his mom in a two up two down terraced house in the red light district of a failed industrial city). She was marrying someone else, less than a year after she cheated on me/dumped me.
> 
> I did not even bother to reply to the invitation.


you could have gone to the reception, and left a deuce in the punch bowl


----------



## Marc878

MattMatt said:


> I was invited to the wedding of an ex who had dumped me for a millionaire property developer (who turned out to be a penniless, convicted fraudster who lived with his mom in a two up two down terraced house in the red light district of a failed industrial city). She was marrying someone else, less than a year after she cheated on me/dumped me.
> 
> I did not even bother to reply to the invitation.


Who turns down free food and drink?

Very un British of you >


----------



## alte Dame

Congrats to you on having the cord finally cut. She's shameless right to the bitter end. So calculated about the money.

You're living the good life, though, bff and have been having the best revenge for a long time. As always, all the best.

aD


----------



## Truthseeker1

alte Dame said:


> Congrats to you on having the cord finally cut. She's shameless right to the bitter end. So calculated about the money.
> 
> You're living the good life, though, bff and have been having the best revenge for a long time. As always, all the best.
> 
> aD


Agreed and lets be honest @bff has subsidized the first years of their relationship - during and after the affair they had his hard earned money to rely on. Not anymore. Lets see how long the "love" lasts after the money runs out. The OM is a loser by any definition...


----------



## Taxman

BFF
Send her a family Christmas card with a picture of you, your beautiful wife and your handsome son. Wish them the best in their "new" life. Hopefully she has an attack of diarrhea on the XMAS tree and the OM. (Its a shame you can't send her a picture of something she really loved...your bank balance)


----------



## Truthseeker1

Taxman said:


> BFF
> Send her a family Christmas card with a picture of you, your beautiful wife and your handsome son. Wish them the best in their "new" life. Hopefully she has an attack of diarrhea on the XMAS tree and the OM. (Its a shame you can't send her a picture of something she really loved...your bank balance)


without Bff's cash she might be at a new address soon lol


----------



## bandit.45

I take issue with "no fault" states like California who recuse themselves from getting involved in judgment over the moral repercussions of adultery, yet enforce the financial repercussions of a divorce caused by same. 

IMO, a "no fault state" should have no mandatory alimony or spousal maintenance.


----------



## Cynthia

bandit.45 said:


> I take issue with "no fault" states like California who recuse themselves from getting involved in judgment over the moral repercussions of adultery, yet enforce the financial repercussions of a divorce caused by same.
> 
> IMO, a "no fault state" should have no mandatory alimony or spousal maintenance.


I disagree. That's like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. If a couple has agreed for one spouse to stay home and raise the children, then the spouse who commits adultery gets off scott free and can leave his spouse in poverty, that is terribly unfair.


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## dubsey

ignore the infidelity part of it and that bit of unfairness, you're essentially forcing abused spouses to stay in a relationship for the finances.

that's no bueno.


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## bandit.45

CynthiaDe said:


> I disagree. That's like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. If a couple has agreed for one spouse to stay home and raise the children, then the spouse who commits adultery gets off scott free and can leave his spouse in poverty, that is terribly unfair.


I'm not saying do away with child support. And anyway, ost states are community property based when it cones to division of assets. Even then it is not always fair, and the offended party gets hosed; but just as unfair or moreso to the offended party when he or she has to pay an adulterer for the rest of her or his life. BFF got off lucky with five years. His wife would have been more than happy to go unmarried for the rest of her life, shacking up with the OM or some other sucker, gleefully allowing BFF to foot her bill for the rest of her life like the parasite she is.


----------



## Cynthia

I think no fault divorce is terrible for families. 

I see your point of view and understand, but I think people should be held accountable for destroying their families.


----------



## bandit.45

CynthiaDe said:


> I think no fault divorce is terrible for families.
> 
> I see your point of view and understand, but I think people should be held accountable for destroying their families.


Unfortunately adultery just doesn't factor into it at all...but it should when it comes to alimony. A BS should be entitled to alimony but should not have to pay it forever.


----------



## Taxman

Vinnydee said:


> When it comes to sex trust no man. No matter what they say, they want to have sex with your wife. They will befriend her, take her side in arguments and agree with all that she says. She will pour her heart out and complain about you. Then when there is a fight or they just secretly meet for drinks or a meal, they strike, especially if there is alcohol and emotions involved. I think we all know by now that feelings can turn into love real quick.


My best friend and a guy I trusted with my kids' lives admitted that when my wife and I were split, he fully intended on trying to get her in the sack. I told my wife in front of him and she laughed in his face. (Really? Sorry dude, you are not in the least attractive to me) I needed for her to do that. I let his wife know his little secret as well. Even tho we had been reconciled for nearly 3 decades, he was still interested. (Because his wife hasn't slept with him in years)


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Taxman said:


> My best friend and a guy I trusted with my kids' lives admitted that when my wife and I were split, he fully intended on trying to get her in the sack. I told my wife in front of him and she laughed in his face. (Really? Sorry dude, *you are not in the least attractive to me*) I needed for her to do that. I let his wife know his little secret as well. Even tho we had been reconciled for nearly 3 decades, he was still interested. (Because his wife hasn't slept with him in years)


 I'd be willing to wager that a huge percentage of women didn't find their affair partners 'attractive' , they just say the right stuff , and your buddy may have succeeded no matter what your wife says. Even if she had found him attractive ,she never would have admitted it in front of you, she played it as would be expected. Good onya for letting his wife know also. I hope he's no longer a friend.


----------



## Taxman

At this point in his life, he is screwed, blewed and tattooed. He spent the first half of their marriage cheating on her, then he got ill. Lost his job. Spent the last decade on psych meds, you name it, he's got it. He now looks and acts 20 years older than me. Even his old AP's (I met them all....sorry! You'd have to scour a number of back alleys to find women of that quality) avoid him. His wife is a sharp cookie, if she cuts him loose, he's dead. He knows it, and kisses the appropriate amount of a$$.

PS
BFF, still your thread dude, we're just kibitzing.


----------



## bff

Kibitz away! 

FWIW, although it may seem strange, I'm not totally against the no-fault divorce thing. In some ways it was worth the $$ over 5 years to not have to go to court to prove just how bad their affair was. However, I am totally against the "forever" alimony thing in CA after 10 years of marriage. I was 3 months away from paying her at least $5k a month FOREVER. And I would bet every dollar I have that, as another poster said, she would have taken advantage of that forever - never marrying OM.

Regarding sending the family picture holiday card... I've thought long and hard about this exact thing. At this point, I think there's still no benefit to trying to rub her face in my happiness and her own barren condition. Knowing them, it would just help them rationalize their own horrible behavior: "Oh look! He's happy, so I guess we did nothing wrong. We did him a favor!" While they did do me a favor (if you take the long view), and I am happy, they should get no guilt relief because of it.

bff


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## Taxman

No, just let them run into you your lovely new wife and your child. She has one good look at you with a child and her world will crash and burn. I'd get her a t-shirt for her birthday, and send it anonymously. It has one word on it: barren.


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## Graywolf2

I would be tempted to let her mother know that they got married two weeks after the alimony ran out.

You can just send a note to your EX MIL saying good by and that you will always have good memories of her. Then slip in when the alimony ended.


----------



## Cynthia

He's finally done with her and some would have him spent time and energy thinking about ways to take revenge on someone who is finally out of his life. This is wallowing in the past rather than enjoying the present and planning for a happy, prosperous future. The best revenge is to forget she ever existed and to move forward with a wonderful family life completely removed from her.


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## Taxman

Revenge is a dish best served cold. Problematically, BFF, you do not need to do one solitary thing to wreak vengeance on your XW & XF, just living well with a new wife and child is sufficient. Sooner or later, the ex is going to see you with a younger prettier wife and a child. Then she will look in the mirror and see an older woman who could not bear children. So, she wasted herself on your former friend. Yes, they got you for a few years worth of your dough, BUT, one day she is going to see a child with your face, and a young pretty Mom who did not fvck around on her husband and now has a marriage and a life to show for her faithfulness.

Your ex is less than five minutes from a complete nervous breakdown. Why do I know this? Fairly simple, a good friend and his wife split. They split while trying for kids. She could not take the disappointment, and took it all out on my friend. They divorced, and he moved onto another woman. Just so happened that the new woman got pregnant, virtually on the wedding night. The Ex-Wife saw the new wife at religious services, pregnant. She blew their phones up. Was warned that she was going to be charged with harassment. She backed down until a year later, when she saw the child in the pram with her ex-husband's face. She suffered a psychotic break later that week. He is in a very nice marriage, and he has two children now. His ex-W begrudges this all.


----------



## jane2017

bff said:


> My story probably starts like a lot of others. The signs have been there for a long time but I chose to ignore them because I'm confrontation averse and was in denial. But, I'm now sure my wife and my best friend have been having a secret relationship - no evidence (yet) of anything physical - for several years.
> 
> We spend a lot of time together (wife, friend, me) with groups of friends, so it's always been obvious to me that they are close with each other. I guess I never really understood how close. I won't go into all the details of the things that tipped me off, but I got that "6th sense" that they were talking with each other when I wasn't around.
> 
> After suspicion got the best of me, I finally took the time to dig around and found her cell phone bills. She and my friend have been talking about 5-6 times PER DAY for at least the last year. That's all the phone bills I was able to find. Who knows how long it has been going on. I see lots of calls that correspond with the time she's commuting to work and when she's at lunch. I looked at some times when I called her, and I was able to see that I interrupted her call with him, then as soon as she and I were off the phone, she called him right back. Neither of them will ever call the other when I'm present, so they are clearly concealing their conversations from me.
> 
> My job takes me to conferences all over the country for a week at a time once or twice a month, and I can see that when I've been out of town, many of the calls are later in the evening. Not sure if that is evidence that he's NOT coming over?? Wishful thinking, perhaps.
> 
> So now I'm not sure what to do. I think the first thing I have to do for my own sanity if figure out if there's a physical part to this relationship. How do I do that? Hidden camera? Hire a PI? I'm not sure I could afford that.
> 
> Of course, I'm already thinking ahead to what I'll do whether I do or do not find any evidence of physical contact. This guy is (was?) my best friend. Between her and him, they are pretty much my whole world. We run in the same social circles, so cutting them off would be a big mess.
> 
> edited to add: BTW, all the other normal signs of an affair exist, too. Secretive with phone, spending more time online, sex trailed off considerably, seems more distant and so on and so on.
> 
> Any thoughts on where I should go from here?


I am really sorry to hear this is happening. I recently went through something very similar with my husband. I got that gut instinct about his interactions with this girl at the e-cig vape shop he would go into. He would go there all the time and hang out, he was becoming friends with the owners of the shop, too. I started going with him on and off and her and I kind of became friends. He was diagnosed as bi-polar back in December. In March he had a bad weekend and was out all night for both days. I eventually did what you did and looked at the phone records. He had been calling and texting her while he was gone. I confronted him, he said nothing physical happened, lord knows if that is true. Needless to say, we separated. I came to find out, he went to live with her and slept on the couch. He said she was there for emotionally and then they ended up dating while him and I were separated. He broke it off with her a few months ago. Some of my anger left and I decided to give him another chance... big mistake. We just found out on Sunday, she is pregnant. And now, instead of focusing on putting our relationship back together, he is fully invested in this child, who he doesn't even know if it's his or not. 

With my experience, I thought the emotional affair was enough to confront him on. I didn't think it was right that he was speaking to another woman. And, I was right. They got together and now might be having a kid. You need to focus on yourself and what makes you happy. If that means, leaving her, then do that. It will all work out in the end. I was afraid to initially do the separation, but things totally fell into place the second I dropped him. If you chose to stay and forgive, you need to fully forgive and not resent her over it. It may be one of those things where you loose your friend, but maybe save the marriage. They have been thinking about themselves, not you. So, now you need to focus on your happiness.


----------



## bff

@jane2017 That post you quoted was from almost exactly 5 years ago :-D

I'm divorced and remarried now with an incredible 2 year old son. My ex-wife and ex-best friend got married a few weeks ago. They waited until the alimony term expired (almost 5 years) so they could get every last cent out of me. 

Trust me when I say, divorce was the right decision for me!

I hope you find a path forward you're "comfortable" with. I know there are no truly comfortable choices in your situation, but I hope there's one that seems clear to you and you commit to it and see it through without malice.

All the best to you,

bff


----------



## naiveonedave

bff said:


> @jane2017
> I'm divorced and remarried now with an incredible 2 year old son. My ex-wife and ex-best friend got married a few weeks ago. They waited until the alimony term expired (almost 5 years) so they could get every last cent out of me.
> 
> 
> bff


Thread Jack: this is why alimony is messed up when the WS gets it from the BS. Incredibly unfair, to the point of actually being cruel. BFF essentially was forced to pay for his ex and her new beau. Steaming pile of you know what. 
end thread jack


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## MattMatt

@bff Look on the money you paid as a dowry to your former best friend in order to take her off your hands.


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## Graywolf2

Graywolf2 said:


> I would be tempted to let her mother know that they got married two weeks after the alimony ran out.
> 
> You can just send a note to your EX MIL saying good by and that you will always have good memories of her. Then slip in when the alimony ended.


I admire bff greatly. I’ve reminded myself numerous times during this thread that his actions were the smart ones. Of course the best revenge is to live well. I tell my kids that all the time.
But I can’t help putting myself in his position and having a little bit of vicarious fun. > I wrote that “I would be tempted” not that I recommend it.


----------



## BetrayedDad

naiveonedave said:


> Thread Jack: this is why alimony is messed up when the WS gets it from the BS. Incredibly unfair, to the point of actually being cruel. BFF essentially was forced to pay for his ex and her new beau. Steaming pile of you know what.
> end thread jack


I would of paid in pennies. Every week, have a sack of pennies dropped off at her house. For five years, just because.


----------



## bff

Graywolf2 said:


> But I can’t help putting myself in his position and having a little bit of vicarious fun. > I wrote that “I would be tempted” not that I recommend it.


Yeah, me too. I've though many, many times about vengeful acts I could perform. It's pretty therapeutic, actually.

I don't think I ever mentioned it in the thread, but completely on a whim as I was driving past a Barnes and Noble one day several months ago, I stopped in. I went to the magazine section and found a magazine that I thought my ex best buddy might enjoy, stole the "subscription" card and subscribed in his name (his first name, my XW's last, just to show him I know who's the man in that relationship) at my XW's house with the "bill me later" box checked. The magazine? "Chickens" 

Lame, I know, but it makes me laugh every time I think about it him getting the mail and seeing the first issue, being confused, then eventually realizing who sent it... :-D

bff


----------



## Taxman

I tend to be cruel with my practical jokes, I probably would have taken out a subscription to "PARENTS" magazine in the name of your EXWW. Yup, I'm a nasty boy.


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## Marc878

BFF,

How are you liking no alimony?


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## bff

Marc878 said:


> BFF,
> 
> How are you liking no alimony?


Loving it!!! More than the additional $$ in my bank account each month, not having the twice-a-month reminder of the alimony withdrawals is great. Them being off my dole and married to each other finally allows me to *really* put them behind me and out of my life forever. 

My boy turned 3 a few months ago. My wife is awesome. Life is goooooooood.

bff


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## MattMatt

Sometimes people are hit by the karma bus.

Other times people are attacked by the Stuka Divebomber of vengeance.


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## DaisyBug

BFF: WOW....Just wow!!!!! I literally joined this forum yesterday afternoon, and i couldn't stop reading this!!!! This is my 1st read here at TAM!!! I'm not only shocked at how your XW not only did that, for so long....but your so called BF....the OM did that to you, which in my opinion was not even a true friend to begin with. I'm so happy that you handled it incredibly well, with poise....but that you had everything in plan and went down. Congratulations for not only becoming a better you, but finding the happiness you deserved....and finding someone that gets you, and you now have a precious 3 yr old boy too!!!! I'm glad you kept in touch!!!


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## weightlifter

Daisy bug. Your next read should be the poster Whyeme. Really rough at first but even bigger turnaround.


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## bff

DaisyBug said:


> but your so called BF....the OM did that to you, which in my opinion was not even a true friend to begin with.


You are correct. When I pieced it all together, it was obvious that his friendship with me was just a way to get access to my XW. I'm much more careful about who my friends are now. :-D

Thanks for the kind words. Even with everything bad that happened, I'm glad it all did, since it led me to a truly wonderful family and life.

bff


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## Truthseeker1

bff said:


> You are correct. When I pieced it all together, it was obvious that his friendship with me was just a way to get access to my XW. I'm much more careful about who my friends are now. :-D
> 
> Thanks for the kind words. Even with everything bad that happened, I'm glad it all did, since it led me to a truly wonderful family and life.
> 
> bff


Glad to see your life is going well...hope your ex is blowing through her $$$$ and will be poor soon enough lol


----------



## Truthseeker1

GTdad said:


> I'm guessing that bff is way beyond caring that we're having this conversation on his thread; he's gone on to much better and happier things. And I get your curiosity, too. With everything on your plate, though, I hope you get something useful out of what you see and that it's not just one more thing in your life that's going to merely piss you off. I wish you the best.


BFF


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## Chuck71

Can not believe I missed your thread for all these years. Someone mentioned your thread on another

and I saved it. Well... then life got in the way...blah blah. Finally finished it. You made the best out

of a crap situation. You sometimes "lose to win" and you have a son, great W... the POS-XW gets something

resembling gum smeared in motor oil on the bottom of your shoe. I'm an author and I could not have

wrote a more telling story of downfall, tragedy, recovery, thriving.

It's sad but true... many of who you thought to be your best bros.... end up being man-hos.

My HS running buddy, we were very tight for years...was best man at his wedding. Thought they would

last forever, have tons of kids..... two years later.... kapoot! She was cheating. Once RB got remarried,

his new W wasn't cool with us being tight.... I told him -I'm here when you want to hang-

Few years went by... got "new-monia" (I'm from the country, dat how wes tawlk) and Ibedamn.... a nurse

was.... his XW. Long story short....she made an offer. I refused.... even though RB and I rarely talked anymore,

I still held my belief you don't mess with a bro's girl. Yes they were D, but what she did to him, I would 

not break that trust, talking or not. I know the 90s term "bros before hos" is cliche but it's true.

Glad you stuck around, many post through their separation, D, maybe a few months afterwards... then

go *poof* ... My DDay was after yours but the D was before, just 60 days in my state.

I figured I'd post a bit after D and go poof too. Egh... I stuck around, tossed advice.

So glad you have too..... Too bad you didn't know anyone in GA... 30 days there! Even if you owned a 

single wide trailer lot in Gooberville, GA. Yes... I thought about it back in 2012.


----------



## bff

Time for my not quite annual check-in to let all that helped me here or those who found some inspiration from my recovery know that things are going GREAT! My boy is 3 and a half and is a complete joy. My wife and I are hoping for a second kid but feel absolutely blessed with one, so not stressing about it.

I've made it several months past filing my first tax return after the alimony period ended, so I'm pretty sure I'm in the clear now and there won't be one last attempt by the XW (or her attorney) to mop up any $$$ from me. XW has taken OM's surname, so now I don't have to have her out there running around with my name. That makes me pretty happy.

For those of you on Karma Bus watch, OM totaled his race car a few weeks ago. Have no idea if he's building another. Either way, that alimony $$$ must be running out fast.

bff


----------



## Truthseeker1

bff said:


> Time for my not quite annual check-in to let all that helped me here or those who found some inspiration from my recovery know that things are going GREAT! My boy is 3 and a half and is a complete joy. My wife and I are hoping for a second kid but feel absolutely blessed with one, so not stressing about it.
> 
> I've made it several months past filing my first tax return after the alimony period ended, so I'm pretty sure I'm in the clear now and there won't be one last attempt by the XW (or her attorney) to mop up any $$$ from me. XW has taken OM's surname, so now I don't have to have her out there running around with my name. That makes me pretty happy.
> 
> For those of you on Karma Bus watch, OM totaled his race car a few weeks ago. Have no idea if he's building another. Either way, that alimony $$$ must be running out fast.
> 
> bff


I love these updates. We read too many stories here and elsewhere of people suffering for years and years in some sort of limbo. Glad you are enjoying your life!!


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## Marc878

You should send them a Christmas card this year. One of those with the family picture.

Just because you can. >


----------



## RWB

bff said:


> *No kids, but are in the middle of doing fertility stuff.* Oddly enough, we're not really "trying naturally" any more, just focused on the IVF treatments. Married almost 7 years. That kids could be involved soon is the reason for my sense of urgency.


From 2012...

I couldn't exactly remember the details. BFF you dodged a massive freight train while stuck on the tracks brother. 2018... good news abounds, leave her memories like a bad habit.


----------



## bff

Marc878 said:


> You should send them a Christmas card this year. One of those with the family picture.
> 
> Just because you can. >


This may be the year I actually do it.


----------



## Wolfman1968

bff said:


> Time for my not quite annual check-in to let all that helped me here or those who found some inspiration from my recovery know that things are going GREAT! My boy is 3 and a half and is a complete joy. My wife and I are hoping for a second kid but feel absolutely blessed with one, so not stressing about it.
> 
> I've made it several months past filing my first tax return after the alimony period ended, so I'm pretty sure I'm in the clear now and there won't be one last attempt by the XW (or her attorney) to mop up any $$$ from me. XW has taken OM's surname, so now I don't have to have her out there running around with my name. That makes me pretty happy.
> 
> For those of you on Karma Bus watch, OM totaled his race car a few weeks ago. Have no idea if he's building another. Either way, that alimony $$$ must be running out fast.
> 
> bff


Great to hear from you!
I remember your posts from the beginning, although the details are a little fuzzy with time. I remember fertility issues were an issue with the ex.

Sadly, so many people who helped you back then--- keko, entropy, caribbean man, shaggy, jelly beans, old wolf 57, aug, etc.--- no longer post here. I think they would have liked to hear your updates.

At least MattMatt is a constant here!


----------



## bandit.45

Marc878 said:


> You should send them a Christmas card this year. One of those with the family picture.
> 
> Just because you can. >


I agree bff. They should love to get a big picture of the happy and fulfilled man who financed their sordid life.


----------



## BruceBanner

snap said:


> Nope, she doesn't see that. From her perspective, she or her daughter can't be wrong, hence it has to be bff. Hence the whole "what have you done to make her cheat" rhetoric.


You hit the nail directly on the head snap; She's shifting the blame from her daughter onto BFF. I don't believe she's a good person at all.


----------



## GusPolinski

BruceBanner said:


> You hit the nail directly on the head snap; She's shifting the blame from her daughter onto BFF. I don't believe she's a good person at all.


Check the time/date stamp on the post you quoted.


----------



## colingrant

I look forward to the OM and your xwife divorcing. That's what the f I look forward to. Your story was the first I read on this site and remains the one that bothers me the most even after having read hundreds. Maybe because it was the first, but it still bothers the hell out of me.


----------



## Vinnydee

Just a word of caution from someone who lost his ex fiancé and ex girlfriend to a friend. EA easily turn into more. All it took the first time was me being away for combat duty and for the second time, an argument where she found a sympathetic ear in my friend. Guys often will side with females because you know what they are hoping for and I do not care who the guy is. Given an opening, pardon the pun, a guy will swoop in or the woman will make the first overture. I learned my lesson and my wife of 46 years did not have any male friends as I had no female friends. We went out with other married couples and did not text, call or otherwise interface with members of the opposite sex.

I was in an EA a few times and had sex with the women a long time ago before I got married. Two were married, one specifically separated from her husband to be with me and one was engaged. After I married I avoided EA's since they always led to sex with me. We are genetically wired to view the opposite sex as potential mates. That does not mean we have to act on the attraction. However, once emotions come into play, we humans tend to make bad choices.

This may sound weird but my wife and I both know he best friend since we were kids. She came from a dysfunctional and cold family who showed her no love. She married an alcoholic and had a kid with him. She often stayed with us for a weekend or two each month and we provided her with support. Once I told her that I loved her and she cried since she never felt loved. My wife also provided her with emotional support and before long we became he family, moved her into our home after she divorced her ex and she became a part of our marriage for 30 years. My wife and I both loved her and loved each other so why not. Turned out that our girlfriend had dated women before and my wife was fantasizing about sex with her BFF so we went for it and it was perfect.

For both me and my wife, emotions come before sex and often lead to sex. We have had sex with everyone of our friends that we felt emotionally bonded got in either a wife swap, foursome or threesome. I am married 46 years. My wife and I have full access to each other's electronic devices. Yet we do not snoop. However since my career was in IT I maintain all of my wife's devices as I did today so I could see her emails and texts. She had my password for all of my devices too and never looks. Knowing what we know about how emotions can easily lead to bad decisions, we do not have male or female friends of the opposite sex. My wife complains about me to her married female friends and I do the same with my male friends. No one gets in trouble that way.


----------



## [email protected]

bff, you before my time around here, but it's heartening to read that you are ok now.


----------



## lovelygirl

Wolfman1968 said:


> Sadly, so many people who helped you back then--- entropy, caribbean man, shaggy, etc.--- no longer post here. I think they would have liked to hear your updates.


I miss those guys!!!! :|

Thanx for the updates bff! Glad you're doing ok!


----------



## colingrant

Vinnydee said:


> Just a word of caution from someone who lost his ex fiancé and ex girlfriend to a friend. EA easily turn into more. All it took the first time was me being away for combat duty and for the second time, an argument where she found a sympathetic ear in my friend. *Guys often will side with females because you know what they are hoping for and I do not care who the guy is. *Given an opening, pardon the pun, a guy will swoop in or the woman will make the first overture. I learned my lesson and my wife of 46 years did not have any male friends as I had no female friends. We went out with other married couples and did not text, call or otherwise interface with members of the opposite sex.
> 
> I was in an EA a few times and had sex with the women a long time ago before I got married. Two were married, one specifically separated from her husband to be with me and one was engaged. After I married I avoided EA's since they always led to sex with me. We are genetically wired to view the opposite sex as potential mates. That does not mean we have to act on the attraction. However, once emotions come into play, we humans tend to make bad choices.
> 
> This may sound weird but my wife and I both know he best friend since we were kids. She came from a dysfunctional and cold family who showed her no love. She married an alcoholic and had a kid with him. She often stayed with us for a weekend or two each month and we provided her with support. Once I told her that I loved her and she cried since she never felt loved. My wife also provided her with emotional support and before long we became he family, moved her into our home after she divorced her ex and she became a part of our marriage for 30 years. My wife and I both loved her and loved each other so why not. Turned out that our girlfriend had dated women before and my wife was fantasizing about sex with her BFF so we went for it and it was perfect.
> 
> For both me and my wife, emotions come before sex and often lead to sex. We have had sex with everyone of our friends that we felt emotionally bonded got in either a wife swap, foursome or threesome. I am married 46 years. My wife and I have full access to each other's electronic devices. Yet we do not snoop. However since my career was in IT I maintain all of my wife's devices as I did today so I could see her emails and texts. She had my password for all of my devices too and never looks. Knowing what we know about how emotions can easily lead to bad decisions, we do not have male or female friends of the opposite sex. My wife complains about me to her married female friends and I do the same with my male friends. No one gets in trouble that way.


Bolded above......Either women are unbeleivably naive to this fact or they pretend they don't know. It's probably the latter, as I can't believe there would be that many clueless women in the world. Men can see when all they have to do is LISTEN and agree, and in time, they got the pxxxy. 

Very high probability rate and it's in this scenario when it's easiest to hit a homerun. Don't have to spend much money, quality time or anything. Just listen to their problems, pretend to be in disgust when the woman is talking about the things their significant others are doing wrong and in time,............ta! ta!!! Bingo....the prize is yours.

I found out about this in college purely by happenstance. I was very shy and befriended girls who found me approachable and mature. I lived in a co-ed dorm. Next thing you know, they're coming to my room to talk. I was so clueless, I still thought that's all they wanted to do, until one came in a nightgown after 11:30. It then hit me. I was being rewarded for listening. 

I mistook it because my initial thoughts were, I didn't say or do anything to warrant female interest, when in fact I did and didn't even know it. I listened, talked and didn't ask for anything in return. In time, they let me know I was there's for the asking. In fact, I normally didn't even have to ask, they let it be known. They ALL had boyfriends. I discontinued after college, as I was experienced and surmised that I was taking advantage of emotionally weakened women, regardless if they were the aggressors or not. It was too easy and I began to feel as though I was taking advantage of their vulnerabilities.


----------



## rv10flyer

colingrant said:


> Bolded above......Either women are unbeleivably naive to this fact or they pretend they don't know. It's probably the latter, as I can't believe there would be that many clueless women in the world. Men can see when all they have to do is LISTEN and agree, and in time, they got the pxxxy.
> 
> Very high probability rate and it's in this scenario when it's easiest to hit a homerun. Don't have to spend much money, quality time or anything. Just listen to their problems, pretend to be in disgust when the woman is talking about the things their significant others are doing wrong and in time,............ta! ta!!! Bingo....the prize is yours.
> 
> I found out about this in college purely by happenstance. I was very shy and befriended girls who found me approachable and mature. I lived in a co-ed dorm. Next thing you know, they're coming to my room to talk. I was so clueless, I still thought that's all they wanted to do, until one came in a nightgown after 11:30. It then hit me. I was being rewarded for listening.
> 
> I mistook it because my initial thoughts were, I didn't say or do anything to warrant female interest, when in fact I did and didn't even know it. I listened, talked and didn't ask for anything in return. In time, they let me know I was there's for the asking. In fact, I normally didn't even have to ask, they let it be known. They ALL had boyfriends. I discontinued after college, as I was experienced and surmised that I was taking advantage of emotionally weakened women, regardless if they were the aggressors or not. It was too easy and I began to feel as though I was taking advantage of their vulnerabilities.


Women in their 40’s are as easily fooled as they are in their 20’s. I busted a married preacher last year that had been using his position to take advantage of vulnerable women for 8 years. My wife being his last. He got what he deserved. We have a married sheriff and principal pulling the same shenanigans on other local married women. They will get busted before long. Yes, I know their poor decisions are mutual and the women suffer the consequences too.


----------



## sokillme

rv10flyer said:


> Women in their 40’s are as easily fooled as they are in their 20’s. I busted a married preacher last year that had been using his position to take advantage of vulnerable women for 8 years. My wife being his last. He got what he deserved. We have a married sheriff and principal pulling the same shenanigans on other local married women. They will get busted before long. Yes, I know their poor decisions are mutual and the women suffer the consequences too.


The truth is women like this pray on men who think of them like children, to stupid or naive to know any better. These are the men they marry and who they know will stay with them after they treat them like garbage. They know they just have to shed some tears and pretend that they were fooled and too stupid to know any better and there knight and shining armor will forgive them. It's a continuing dynamic that is usually present at the start of the relationship. Extramarital affairs are just the apex of that dynamic. 

The truth is they know exactly what they are doing and enjoy every minute of it, they also know they can play innocent and gullible to get away with it. No one is "fooled" into infidelity unless they are mentally retarded. It feels good while they are doing it, damn the consequences or who they hurt. The only ones who are naive are the men who stay married to them, thinking the whole time that they were too innocent to know what they were doing.


----------



## bff

colingrant said:


> I look forward to the OM and your xwife divorcing. That's what the f I look forward to. Your story was the first I read on this site and remains the one that bothers me the most even after having read hundreds. Maybe because it was the first, but it still bothers the hell out of me.


She's already gotten what she deserves - the POS OM. They live a pretty isolated, sad existence. Material possessions are the only true "love" either of them have. When the money runs out (and it will!!) they will head for the rocks and FAST. I don't care what happens to either of them or their relationship, but there's a tiny part of me that would love to see her have to pay him alimony.

bff


----------



## Marc878

It's because they are looking for "things" to make them happy. They'll search in vain but never find it because they have no soul. It's and endless cycle.


----------



## Imajerk17

I read through this thread. @bff, I am really impressed how you took the high road through all this and I am happy that things turned out great for you.

I do think there are other lessons here though. It is on us as men to set the tone and to set the boundaries in our relationships. Very often if we do not do so, then the woman in question will rationalize her atrocious actions (or early on, her "questionable" actions as she slides down the slippery slope into an EA and then later on into a PA) with "oh he must not really care about me". There were a lot of signs along the way that something was not right long before D-day.

I'm not justifying your xWW's actions, not at all. I am not justifying her GIVING HERSELF PERMISSION to cheat. It sucks that California is a no-fault divorce state, people who cheat do not deserve alimony. That said, I am not sure I can agree 100% with the mindset that all cheaters are "broken". I think instead it is this--women tend to be externally-validated creatures--and they tend to look to us to set the tone. And if we don't do this, then they are prone to stepping out. The self-aware ones get this and are better at setting boundaries, but well, most people aren't that self-aware.


----------



## sokillme

sokillme said:


> The truth is women like this pray on men who think of them like children, to stupid or naive to know any better. These are the men they marry and who they know will stay with them after they treat them like garbage. They know they just have to shed some tears and pretend that they were fooled and too stupid to know any better and there knight and shining armor will forgive them. It's a continuing dynamic that is usually present at the start of the relationship. Extramarital affairs are just the apex of that dynamic.
> 
> The truth is they know exactly what they are doing and enjoy every minute of it, they also know they can play innocent and gullible to get away with it. No one is "fooled" into infidelity unless they are mentally retarded. It feels good while they are doing it, damn the consequences or who they hurt. The only ones who are naive are the men who stay married to them, thinking the whole time that they were too innocent to know what they were doing.


I wanted to expand on this thought but didn't want to thread jack so I started a new post.  So here is a post that no one asked for. ha ha.


----------



## bff

Imajerk17 said:


> I read through this thread. @bff, I am really impressed how you took the high road through all this and I am happy that things turned out great for you.
> 
> I do think there are other lessons here though. It is on us as men to set the tone and to set the boundaries in our relationships. Very often if we do not do so, then the woman in question will rationalize her atrocious actions (or early on, her "questionable" actions as she slides down the slippery slope into an EA and then later on into a PA) with "oh he must not really care about me". There were a lot of signs along the way that something was not right long before D-day.
> 
> I'm not justifying your xWW's actions, not at all. I am not justifying her GIVING HERSELF PERMISSION to cheat. It sucks that California is a no-fault divorce state, people who cheat do not deserve alimony. That said, I am not sure I can agree 100% with the mindset that all cheaters are "broken". I think instead it is this--women tend to be externally-validated creatures--and they tend to look to us to set the tone. And if we don't do this, then they are prone to stepping out. The self-aware ones get this and are better at setting boundaries, but well, most people aren't that self-aware.


Agree ^^^^^ Somewhere inside these 1,500+ posts in this thread someone recommended the Married Man's Sex Life Primer. While it is horribly named and a little tough to read at times given some of the explicit sex stuff, I believe it should be required reading for EVERY YOUNG MALE in the entire world before they're allowed to start dating in earnest, certainly before they're allowed to marry. That book reads like the story of everything I did wrong in my relationship with my XW. I don't think my XW is broken. I think she's incredibly selfish. But I also know that I played a part in setting the context for what happened.

bff


----------



## Faithful Wife

bff said:


> Agree ^^^^^ Somewhere inside these 1,500+ posts in this thread someone recommended the Married Man's Sex Life Primer. While it is horribly named and a little tough to read at times given some of the explicit sex stuff, I believe it should be required reading for EVERY YOUNG MALE in the entire world before they're allowed to start dating in earnest, certainly before they're allowed to marry. That book reads like the story of everything I did wrong in my relationship with my XW. I don't think my XW is broken. I think she's incredibly selfish. But I also know that I played a part in setting the context for what happened.
> 
> bff


Bff, if you mentioned this, I must have missed it.

What ever happened to the adoption baby and mom? Did you go through an agency and the agency helped reassign the adoption to new parents? Or did you speak to the mother about the impending divorce yourself? Do you know what became of the baby who was almost yours?


----------



## bff

Faithful Wife said:


> Bff, if you mentioned this, I must have missed it.
> 
> What ever happened to the adoption baby and mom? Did you go through an agency and the agency helped reassign the adoption to new parents? Or did you speak to the mother about the impending divorce yourself? Do you know what became of the baby who was almost yours?


Not sure I ever provided that level of detail. My XW called the agency. We were still early in the process and were just planning our first visit to meet the birth mother in person. So, we didn't really have a relationship with her, yet. I have no idea what happened beyond that. Given how hard it is to adopt, I'm sure in less than 48 hours they had another adoptive couple lined up.

bff


----------



## bandit.45

bff said:


> Agree ^^^^^ Somewhere inside these 1,500+ posts in this thread someone recommended the Married Man's Sex Life Primer. While it is horribly named and a little tough to read at times given some of the explicit sex stuff, I believe it should be required reading for EVERY YOUNG MALE in the entire world before they're allowed to start dating in earnest, certainly before they're allowed to marry. That book reads like the story of everything I did wrong in my relationship with my XW. I don't think my XW is broken. I think she's incredibly selfish. But I also know that I played a part in setting the context for what happened.
> 
> bff


Self reflection is fine. All of us dudes should work towards self improvement. But in your case you trusted too much, and the person you trusted was a woman of low moral character. That's it. You can't blame yourself for her being rotten. She was that way before you married her.


----------



## bff

Hey TAM family,

I can't bring myself to wait for my semi-annual update because I have great news! My wife and I are expecting our second child mid-year. My "best revenge" of living well continues! All else is well. 

bff


----------



## MattMatt

bff said:


> Hey TAM family,
> 
> I can't bring myself to wait for my semi-annual update because I have great news! My wife and I are expecting our second child mid-year. My "best revenge" of living well continues! All else is well.
> 
> bff


Oh, wow! That's such great news, @bff!


----------



## Cynthia

Congratulations! That's wonderful news.


----------



## colingrant

bff said:


> Hey TAM family,
> 
> I can't bring myself to wait for my semi-annual update because I have great news! My wife and I are expecting our second child mid-year. My "best revenge" of living well continues! All else is well.
> 
> bff


Honestly, I was hoping to read your XW and her spineless partner were picked up for trafficking heroin and were looking at 20-30 years without parole, or the house granted to your XW was foreclosed or burned down or something else giving me great pleasure. I know, it's not cool to wish bad on someone, but I did stop short of them getting killed. Least give me that. 

BFF...I've told you before, your story was the first story I read on TAM, and it's still the one that ticks me off to no end. Please keep me informed if the hammer falls down upon your XW and former best friend. I GREATLY look forward to KARMA blowing there lives up. When it happens, I want to know.


----------



## bff

colingrant said:


> Honestly, I was hoping to read your XW and her spineless partner were picked up for trafficking heroin and were looking at 20-30 years without parole, or the house granted to your XW was foreclosed or burned down or something else giving me great pleasure. I know, it's not cool to wish bad on someone, but I did stop short of them getting killed. Least give me that.
> 
> BFF...I've told you before, your story was the first story I read on TAM, and it's still the one that ticks me off to no end. Please keep me informed if the hammer falls down upon your XW and former best friend. I GREATLY look forward to KARMA blowing there lives up. When it happens, I want to know.


LOL - @colingrant you've got my word that I will post that news here when I hear it. And I believe that day is coming. Maybe not soon, but eventually.

bff


----------



## farsidejunky

I would wager that XWW's infertility in the face of BFF's family working on their second child is enough to keep her up at night. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Chuck71

I'm a huge Dave Ramsey fan. He often says -I've never heard about anyone going broke from tithing 

to a church- So as saying 'good deeds do not go unnoticed' Pretty much sums up how you life

has went since you shook the modern day "Spanish Flu." You have a wonderful woman, a child and another

on the way. Your WW....well she has pretty much got what she deserves. Karma bus..... not quite.

More the Karma Train. Best wishes for your new addition BFF.


----------



## colingrant

farsidejunky said:


> I would wager that XWW's infertility in the face of BFF's family working on their second child is enough to keep her up at night.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


I didn't know (or forgot, as I can't stand to reread or review the story it ticks me off so) about the infertility. That's great news, although I would prefer something to happen to her/them more sinister in nature. If I knew BFF's old address, I'd *mistakenly* send flowers and two balloons to BFF's XW congratulating BFF and his current wife on there 2nd child to rub it in. Would pay extra to ensure delivery took place in person to BFF's XW, and that the person delivering smiled and congratulated her enthusiastically.


----------



## bff

For all you long-time thread watchers, I'm thrilled to announce my second child (daughter this time) arrived happy and healthy! Amazing to think about how far I've come in the last seven years, from unhappy in a sham of a marriage to ecstatic with an amazing wife and a couple of awesome kids. There is life beyond divorce.

bff


----------



## Wolfman1968

bff said:


> For all you long-time thread watchers, I'm thrilled to announce my second child (daughter this time) arrived happy and healthy! Amazing to think about how far I've come in the last seven years, from unhappy in a sham of a marriage to ecstatic with an amazing wife and a couple of awesome kids. There is life beyond divorce.
> 
> bff



Great!

Best wishes for your future!


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## alte Dame

Congratulations!

You have such a beautiful family now. I wish you all much joy.


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## Taxman

BFF
Mazel tov
Only the best for you and your lovely family.
Be sure to send a family photo to your ex at Christmas. 
I am a prick and would likely write, we wish you a barren christmas and a crappy new year.


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## Robert22205

Thanks for sharing.


----------



## bff

Annual check-in for my long-time supporters and post-watchers. My kids are now 5 1/2 and 1 y.o. My wife and I are doing fantastic. Life is really, really good. I don't have any news to report on the XW and her husband. As far as I know, they're still together and doing fine. I don't hear much about them anymore from common friends and acquaintances, which is fine with me. I know that's a disappointment for all those eagerly waiting for karmic revenge. My guess is, that will come in time, so hold fast. Hope you all are safe and healthy amidst the pandemic.

bff


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## MattMatt

Very pleased for you and your family. 😀


----------



## sokillme

bff said:


> Annual check-in for my long-time supporters and post-watchers. My kids are now 5 1/2 and 1 y.o. My wife and I are doing fantastic. Life is really, really good. I don't have any news to report on the XW and her husband. As far as I know, they're still together and doing fine. I don't hear much about them anymore from common friends and acquaintances, which is fine with me. I know that's a disappointment for all those eagerly waiting for karmic revenge. My guess is, that will come in time, so hold fast. Hope you all are safe and healthy amidst the pandemic.
> 
> bff


Great, for you. And they get stuck with each other. That's pretty good revenge.


----------



## Taxman

BFF blessings on you and your little family. People tend to forget that Karma also works positively. In your case, all of the evil done you bounced back onto the perpetrators, the positive Karma came to you, and gave you a new wife, new life and two great kids. Enjoy. You deserve it. Love the hell out of them every day.


----------



## Clay2013

Its great coming back and seeing that you posted an update. Its really amazing how you turned your life around and moved past your xW and her BS. I am glad to hear you are building a wonderful family. I think in the end that's all we really all ever wanted. Good for you and your family. As for your xW. I would just put her in the past where she belongs. When I run into my xW. We don't talk. I don't avoid her. I just walk right passed her life she never mattered in the first place. Thankfully she doesn't even try to stop me or say anything. If should would it would be her loss because I wouldn't stop and talk. Its not personal anymore. Its just the fact I really don't care. 

I hope you continue to have a wonder life with your family. 

Clay


----------



## colingrant

🤬 f all parties on your x wife's side. Including, but not limited to the massive pos husband, their house, land and street. I'm putting the champagne back it the box BFF.


----------



## Chuck71

BFF...... I came to your thread super late. But the way you went down and came back up was amazing.

Your thread is a road map for those who think a D means their life is over. I agree with @Clay2013 

on seeing people come back and post positive updates once or twice a year. I don't post much at all here

anymore. Pulling 55 hours a week and getting M soon will do that!

This Fall will make eight years since my DDay. It's like a lifetime ago.

You pick up the pieces and move on. Having no children with an XW makes it much easier.

Keep climbing BFF


----------



## bandit.45

Thanks ffor the update BFF. It is good to know that good people are still rewarded for being good people.


----------



## Buffer

Strength and respect ✊ 
Buffer


----------



## Cuobs

Your story was the first one I read in full.

I will really always see it as one in which you did the right thing from the beginning because while you respected your own sensitivity, you did not allow for begging and perverse games or humiliation by someone who did not deserve your trust and less your love.
I was glad to see that with the passing of time you were able to acquire wisdom to strengthen the healthy boundaries in your relationships. Also knowing that you had children in a happy marriage made me burst with joy (feeling something like that for a stranger is something very rare in me)
I'm really happy for you.

Your ex probably has almost no place in your life. But this is more of a personal wish, based on certain very real things that I saw in your posts: If the "karma" has not reached your ex yet, I have a feeling that mid-year 2022 will be when you will see it.


I had to tell you this as my last message in this forum, I hope to hear soon a new update on how your life is going. I wish that everything in your life continues well, even better than in your last update, because according to everything I saw in your publications, you deserve it.

Health, good luck and happiness @bff


----------



## bff

Cuobs said:


> Your story was the first one I read in full.
> 
> I will really always see it as one in which you did the right thing from the beginning because while you respected your own sensitivity, you did not allow for begging and perverse games or humiliation by someone who did not deserve your trust and less your love.
> I was glad to see that with the passing of time you were able to acquire wisdom to strengthen the healthy boundaries in your relationships. Also knowing that you had children in a happy marriage made me burst with joy (feeling something like that for a stranger is something very rare in me)
> I'm really happy for you.
> 
> Your ex probably has almost no place in your life. But this is more of a personal wish, based on certain very real things that I saw in your posts: If the "karma" has not reached your ex yet, I have a feeling that mid-year 2022 will be when you will see it.
> 
> 
> I had to tell you this as my last message in this forum, I hope to hear soon a new update on how your life is going. I wish that everything in your life continues well, even better than in your last update, because according to everything I saw in your publications, you deserve it.
> 
> Health, good luck and happiness @bff


@Cuobs Thank you. Messages like this still mean a lot to me, even after so many years have passed. My life has, indeed, gotten even better. A couple years into my alimony, I changed jobs and went to a small tech startup. My ex-wife (and her attorney) made an appeal to get a piece of my equity stake (stock options) at that time, which the court totally denied. Last year, more than 6 years later, that company IPO'd. This has resulted in a significant, almost life-changing, financial windfall for my family. I have no problem if karma continues to just reward me rather than punish my ex wife and friend.

My kids, 6 and just about 2, are wonderful and have thrived during the pandemic given all the time we've spent together as a family. My wife continues to be the quality partner I've always wanted.

Life is good.

bff


----------



## Marc878

@bff congratulations. Chumplady said it best “Leave a cheater, gain a life”. Way to many wallow in infidelity too long. 

Hopefully the cheaters will stay together. It’ll make the world a safer place 😂


----------



## Cuobs

bff said:


> @Cuobs Thank you. Messages like this still mean a lot to me, even after so many years have passed. My life has, indeed, gotten even better. A couple years into my alimony, I changed jobs and went to a small tech startup. My wife (and her attorney) made an appeal to get a piece of my equity stake (stock options) at that time, which the court totally denied. Last year, more than 6 years later, that company IPO'd. This has resulted in a significant, almost life-changing, financial windfall for my family. I have no problem if karma continues to just reward me rather than punish my ex wife and friend.
> 
> My kids, 6 and just about 2, are wonderful and have thrived during the pandemic given all the time we've spent together as a family. My wife continues to be the quality partner I've always wanted.
> 
> Life is good.
> 
> bff


How good it is to know that you and your family are well and happy!

That past that you had to face is not something you deserve but by the way you have faced it, this happy present, in my opinion, is more than deserved.

Reading your story will surely be a push to many who hesitate between conforming with a unfaithful spouse or starting to be happy without that unfair backpack of a betrayal behind.

It is annoying to know that your ex-wife keeps trying to muddy your happiness (as if she somehow wishes to be present in your life, even if it is like a cockroach )
But you seem armored against that, so it's something else to add to the epic of your life.
Think about how your children will benefit, when you can tell them about this. They will be much more prepared to face this crazy world of romantic relationships (and marriage).



bff said:


> I have no problem if karma continues to just reward me rather than punish my ex wife and friend.


That is very, very wise.

Congratulations bff!


----------



## Harold Demure

bff, I have just read your thread from start to finish.

IMO, you have shown everyone just how to do it. Your taking the higher ground at every turn has demonstrated integrity and I am glad you have the family life you so richly deserve.

People often refer to karma in a negative way with disaster falling on those wrongdoers who deserve an unhappy ending. As you say, karma can also have a very positive side and I have learnt here how good karma can result from good thoughts and actions.

God forbid I find myself in this situation but if I did then I would come back to your thread for support and guidance.

In a weird way, I found this thread an enjoyable read. Like many others, I became engaged in the story, wanted to know what happened next and connected with the characters involved. Your story would make a great book, particularly in terms of offering help to others which could actually be life changing for them.

Wishing you and your new family all the best for a long and happy future and looking forward to any updates.


----------



## MattMatt

Hi, @bff I think your ex is having long term buyer's remorse. She knows she backed the wrong horse.


----------



## Cuobs

Harold Demure said:


> bff, I have just read your thread from start to finish.
> 
> IMO, you have shown everyone just how to do it. Your taking the higher ground at every turn has demonstrated integrity and I am glad you have the family life you so richly deserve.
> 
> People often refer to karma in a negative way with disaster falling on those wrongdoers who deserve an unhappy ending. As you say, karma can also have a very positive side and I have learnt here how good karma can result from good thoughts and actions.
> 
> God forbid I find myself in this situation but if I did then I would come back to your thread for support and guidance.
> 
> In a weird way, I found this thread an enjoyable read. Like many others, I became engaged in the story, wanted to know what happened next and connected with the characters involved. Your story would make a great book, particularly in terms of offering help to others which could actually be life changing for them.
> 
> Wishing you and your new family all the best for a long and happy future and looking forward to any updates.


I do not believe in karma as such, that is why I put it like this "karma", unfortunately, that the wrongdoer one receives his just retribution costs much more than a metaphysical law of cause and effect. That's the truth i believe in.

Although I do not believe in karma, I do believe that there are certain types of people prone to receiving retribution for their actions, be they good or bad. There are other people who never seem to have to pay for their wrongdoing. Some never pay.

Is there something spiritual behind it? I think so.

I am not a saint, nor will I say anything against revenge but I only advocate for it as long as it is balanced and you do not burn yourself in the process, it does not make sense to fall along with the objective of your revenge. I know that saying objective is to depersonalize who you It has hurt and you intend to hurt, but whoever takes revenge will have to deal with many of these inconsistencies.


In the case of bff that your life is as good as it is, I think that it responds to the spirit of this sentence

"* I have no problem if karma continues to just reward me rather than punish my ex wife and friend. "*

What bff has today, I think it responds to the mentality behind that sentence, the hard work, self-denial and sacrifices required to achieve this present, not to karma and we know that this is of more value and more imperishable.

Although sometimes some of us miss some old-fashioned karma!! LOL




MattMatt said:


> Hi, @bff I think your ex is having long term buyer's remorse. She knows she backed the wrong horse.


How beautiful, almost even poetic it would be...


----------



## Marc878

MattMatt said:


> Hi, @bff I think your ex is having long term buyer's remorse. She knows she backed the wrong horse.


Yep, even if it’s never said it’s definitely there.


----------



## Evinrude58

Glad to hear a good ending to a divorce from a cheater.


----------



## SunCMars

MattMatt said:


> Hi, @bff I think your ex is having long term buyer's remorse. She knows she backed the wrong horse.


She rode the wrong horse.
And, she tried to jockey two studs.


----------



## Jeffsmith35

bff, you're an inspiration to me. I'm just starting this journey but it is eerily similar to your first post. Seeing your story and happy ending brings me a feeling of hope. Thank you for sharing it.


----------



## bff

Jeffsmith35 said:


> bff, you're an inspiration to me. I'm just starting this journey but it is eerily similar to your first post. Seeing your story and happy ending brings me a feeling of hope. Thank you for sharing it.


Happy you've found some inspiration in the story, but I'm sorry that you're here in the first place. If I can ever help in any way, please DM me.

bff


----------



## alte Dame

I haven't been here for a long time, but got on today when I saw that you had updated.

It's wonderful to see how beautiful and fulfilling your family is for you.

As to the ex? Revenge, schmevenge - the best revenge is living well. I actually really believe that. You're showing us how that's done.


----------



## Lostinthought61

So so glad to hear BFF, love to see that the karma bus keeps running her over.


----------



## gr8ful1

bff said:


> My wife (and her attorney) made an appeal to get a piece of my equity stake (stock options) at that time, which the court totally denied. Last year, more than 6 years later, that company IPO'd. This has resulted in a significant, almost life-changing, financial windfall for my family.


You’re far too nice to do the following @bff but I’d be so tempted to send XW a note revealing what you made on the equity and it’s so delightful she’s getting none of it....


----------



## bff

gr8ful1 said:


> You’re far too nice to do the following @bff but I’d be so tempted to send XW a note revealing what you made on the equity and it’s so delightful she’s getting none of it....


She works in wealth management. She watches the IPOs like a hawk, because that’s where they get their new clients. She absolutely knows my company went public and she knows I was there early, so I have a lot of stock. No note required.

I actually saw xw and om this weekend. I took my son to a racetrack to see some racing and they were there. Saw them as I was walking through the pits. They looked... old. Tired. I didn’t bother parading my son in front of her. Zero triggers, fwiw.

bff


----------



## Cuobs

Being defeated while you flourish won't be fun for her, the existence of your childrens is already a blow to them.



bff said:


> I didn’t bother parading my son in front of her


It was a good decision not to use them to cause them pain.


----------



## colingrant

bff said:


> She works in wealth management. She watches the IPOs like a hawk, because that’s where they get their new clients. She absolutely knows my company went public and *she knows I was there early*, so I have a lot of stock. No note required.
> 
> I actually saw xw and om this weekend. I took my son to a racetrack to see some racing and they were there. Saw them as I was walking through the pits. *They looked... old. Tired*. I didn’t bother parading my son in front of her. Zero triggers, fwiw.
> 
> bff


I finally get a morsel. A f'n bone. Been waiting 3.5 years for this BFF. I want a pound of flesh from these people BFF, but I'll take this.


----------



## Jeffsmith35

bff said:


> She works in wealth management. She watches the IPOs like a hawk, because that’s where they get their new clients. She absolutely knows my company went public and she knows I was there early, so I have a lot of stock. No note required.
> 
> I actually saw xw and om this weekend. I took my son to a racetrack to see some racing and they were there. Saw them as I was walking through the pits. They looked... old. Tired. I didn’t bother parading my son in front of her. Zero triggers, fwiw.
> 
> bff


They looked old and tired because their thrill is gone, replaced by constant reminders and guilt that they are terrible people who made the biggest mistake of their lives. Today's word: Schadenfreude.


----------



## bff

Quick update that the karma/revenge seekers won't like... the wife of a common friend of mine and XW/OM passed away last week after a 12 year battle with cancer. The funeral was this morning, and I ended up having to take my daughter with me to the service. I got there early and was hanging around in back with my young daughter so we could make a quick exit if she got noisy. XW/OM came in and on their way to the restroom passed right by me. We were all wearing masks. I waved, and she didn't acknowledge me. On their way back from the restroom, she stopped and said sorry that it took her a minute to realize it was me. The three of us chatted for about 30 minutes - talking about all sorts of stuff - the pandemic, my kids, our parents' health, wine. Like we were old friends.

It was in some ways cathartic to me that I had ZERO triggers of any sort interacting with them. And they got to see my incredibly cute daughter and how happy I am. Felt like additional "closure" (which I really don't think I needed, but whatever) because I had not talked to OM since the day before I confronted my XW 9 years ago. We've all moved on and everyone seems to be in a good spot.

bff


----------



## Rob_1

Chatted for 30 mins???. Uhgg. I wouldn't have done it. Too much pride. Well, at least you got your closure.


----------



## Rus47

bff said:


> Quick update that the karma/revenge seekers won't like... the wife of a common friend of mine and XW/OM passed away last week after a 12 year battle with cancer. The funeral was this morning, and I ended up having to take my daughter with me to the service. I got there early and was hanging around in back with my young daughter so we could make a quick exit if she got noisy. XW/OM came in and on their way to the restroom passed right by me. We were all wearing masks. I waved, and she didn't acknowledge me. On their way back from the restroom, she stopped and said sorry that it took her a minute to realize it was me. The three of us chatted for about 30 minutes - talking about all sorts of stuff - the pandemic, my kids, our parents' health, wine. Like we were old friends.
> 
> It was in some ways cathartic to me that I had ZERO triggers of any sort interacting with them. And they got to see my incredibly cute daughter and how happy I am. Felt like additional "closure" (which I really don't think I needed, but whatever) because I had not talked to OM since the day before I confronted my XW 9 years ago. We've all moved on and everyone seems to be in a good spot.
> 
> bff


BFF: Encountered your thread because of this update, went back and read from the beginning 9 years ago. A very impressive story, ought to be a "sticky" in this forum. Wonderful to see a betrayed overcome, prosper, and forget those who did the betraying.


----------



## Chuck71

BFF..... you obliterated them. You are eagle, they are gum on bottom shoe. Nothing more should be said.

You went from one of the dead to a king.

Thank you for the updates...... road map.

You are in the TAM "Hall of Fame"


----------



## MattMatt

Rob_1 said:


> Chatted for 30 mins???. Uhgg. I wouldn't have done it. Too much pride. Well, at least you got your closure.


Wow. The snark is strong in this one.  

@bff didn't need closure. He already_ *had* _closure.

So now what he gets is heaping coals upon their heads.

And he has plenty of real pride in himself as a man, a successful man, a husband and a father.

After they parted from him, their scalps will be smoking from the burning coals he heaped upon their heads for a long time to come.


----------



## Rob_1

MattMatt said:


> After they parted from him, their scalps will be smoking from the burning coals he heaped upon their heads for a long time to come.


Nah. Nice wishful thinking for revenge. In reality people like his ex, and ex friend, don't give a ****. They go about their amoral life in blissful la, la, land.


----------



## Cuobs

Don't worry about karma. If you no longer feel resentment, or a desire to be paid for what they did to you, probably nothing will happen to them, unless they have harvested hatred from someone else with a strong will.

So goodbye mid-2022, which was the date I assumed it would be time to pay.

In any case, going from moving away from resentment to talking as friends for 30 minutes, as if nothing had happened, is a very strange path. Beware BFF, you are on dangerous ground and your achievements on this path, like the achievements of anyone, are not eternal nor do they make you invulnerable.

I wonder, what did you intend to achieve with such an intimate conversation? Why the hell would you want people like them in your life?

You have made me skip so many questions and question a number of things.

Good Luck BFF


----------



## Marc878

IMO karma doesn’t exist. The good thing is YOU TRADED WAY UP!!!!

I wouldn’t have engaged but I’m an ass so…..

The good thing is she saw what you have now and will compare to where she is. 😵‍💫

The other thing is she wanted reconciliation which you denied. In this case she ended up with pan B 😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣. Hilarious when you think about it.


----------



## notmyjamie

It may have seemed like a no big deal non karma meeting but as she lost her chance at motherhood by cheating on you, you can bet she’s feeling quite awful that you are now happy with 2 children living a life she can only dream about. And she was confronted full on with that. It hurt her to see you holding your daughter. Of that you can be sure. 

Condolences on the loss of your friend.


----------



## bff

Cuobs said:


> Don't worry about karma. If you no longer feel resentment, or a desire to be paid for what they did to you, probably nothing will happen to them, unless they have harvested hatred from someone else with a strong will.
> 
> So goodbye mid-2022, which was the date I assumed it would be time to pay.
> 
> In any case, going from moving away from resentment to talking as friends for 30 minutes, as if nothing had happened, is a very strange path. Beware BFF, you are on dangerous ground and your achievements on this path, like the achievements of anyone, are not eternal nor do they make you invulnerable.
> 
> I wonder, what did you intend to achieve with such an intimate conversation? Why the hell would you want people like them in your life?
> 
> You have made me skip so many questions and question a number of things.
> 
> Good Luck BFF


I don’t understand what you mean by being on dangerous ground. I didn’t hope to achieve anything with the conversation. My XW started talking to me and I talked to her instead of turning tail and running. I didn’t bring them into my life.

I said multiple times in this thread over the years that I thought those two were just acting very selfishly, not acting to hurt me. I still believe that. We’ve all moved on, and that’s good IMHO. Now I don’t feel like I need to dread running into them.

bff


----------



## Rus47

Seeking revenge harms the seeker more than the target(s). Rising above the fray and prospering is much more productive. 

BFF gained a faithful wife, two beautiful children, a peaceful productive life. Being able to look in the mirror and be proud of what he sees. 

What did XW "gain"? A parasite loser who can't support himself and who could jump to another anytime it suits. What did XBF "gain"? A woman who lied and cheated on her husband, who can't give him children.

Seems to me BFF came out way ahead on the trade, for sure XW knows that. What do you think goes through her mind watching BFF and his little girl, seeing he isn't phased at all talking with her and her parasite? I have always believed that adulterers deserve one another, and my observation is they usually get all the misery they deserve.


----------



## ABHale

bff said:


> Quick update that the karma/revenge seekers won't like... the wife of a common friend of mine and XW/OM passed away last week after a 12 year battle with cancer. The funeral was this morning, and I ended up having to take my daughter with me to the service. I got there early and was hanging around in back with my young daughter so we could make a quick exit if she got noisy. XW/OM came in and on their way to the restroom passed right by me. We were all wearing masks. I waved, and she didn't acknowledge me. On their way back from the restroom, she stopped and said sorry that it took her a minute to realize it was me. The three of us chatted for about 30 minutes - talking about all sorts of stuff - the pandemic, my kids, our parents' health, wine. Like we were old friends.
> 
> It was in some ways cathartic to me that I had ZERO triggers of any sort interacting with them. And they got to see my incredibly cute daughter and how happy I am. Felt like additional "closure" (which I really don't think I needed, but whatever) because I had not talked to OM since the day before I confronted my XW 9 years ago. We've all moved on and everyone seems to be in a good spot.
> 
> bff


Zero triggers = complete forgiveness and that you have moved on. Still doesn’t mean interaction starts but what sweet revenge after the hell she put you through to see how happy you are with out her. Your happiness will be like a knife in exww back if she has any animosity towards you still.


----------



## ABHale

Rob_1 said:


> Nah. Nice wishful thinking for revenge. In reality people like his ex, and ex friend, don't give a ****. They go about their amoral life in blissful la, la, land.


I will disagree with you on this. I am sure the ex has blown through her divorce settlement. She can’t help but think about bff’s money. bff was supposed to be the wallet while she was allowed to be with her OM. bff didn’t stay in his place in her little fantasy, she will hate bff for the rest of her life because of this. My mom still hates my dad and it’s been 48 yrs since he divorced her.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Rob_1 said:


> Chatted for 30 mins???. Uhgg. I wouldn't have done it. Too much pride. Well, at least you got your closure.





bff said:


> Quick update that the karma/revenge seekers won't like... the wife of a common friend of mine and XW/OM passed away last week after a 12 year battle with cancer. The funeral was this morning, and I ended up having to take my daughter with me to the service. I got there early and was hanging around in back with my young daughter so we could make a quick exit if she got noisy. XW/OM came in and on their way to the restroom passed right by me. We were all wearing masks. I waved, and she didn't acknowledge me. On their way back from the restroom, she stopped and said sorry that it took her a minute to realize it was me. The three of us chatted for about 30 minutes - talking about all sorts of stuff - the pandemic, my kids, our parents' health, wine. Like we were old friends.
> 
> It was in some ways cathartic to me that I had ZERO triggers of any sort interacting with them. And they got to see my incredibly cute daughter and how happy I am. Felt like additional "closure" (which I really don't think I needed, but whatever) because I had not talked to OM since the day before I confronted my XW 9 years ago. We've all moved on and everyone seems to be in a good spot.
> 
> bff


they may be in a good spot but she did want more from money from you (i.e. part of your hare in the company you work for) so it does tell me that greed is still a motive for her at least


----------



## Cuobs

bff said:


> I don’t understand what you mean by being on dangerous ground. I didn’t hope to achieve anything with the conversation. My XW started talking to me and I talked to her instead of turning tail and running. I didn’t bring them into my life.
> 
> I said multiple times in this thread over the years that I thought those two were just acting very selfishly, not acting to hurt me. I still believe that. We’ve all moved on, and that’s good IMHO. Now I don’t feel like I need to dread running into them.
> 
> bff


BFF I start by repeating what I told you before...
I think of your story as one that exemplifies how to respect your own sensitivity and moral boundaries and still move quickly through the steps to take concrete steps to get those who hurt you out of your life. I have respect for your path.

That said I remember you yourself saying the role you played in your own marriage, the disrespect given to you in front of everyone by those 2, the times your now ex-wife, without any remorse, tried to harm you financially by trying to increase how much you paid her and more recently take over part of your company. 

You didn't need to run, but I never expected a 30 minute conversation, "as if you were old friends". In my humble opinion if you brought them back into your life, you talked as close friends about very personal things at a very sensitive time for you, which is the death of an acquaintance from cancer, plus being in the middle of a pandemic, which is another stressor. This is all that is needed by people with highly functional psychopathic traits who know what keys to squeeze from the old but not dead BFF.

It is very difficult to change your whole persona, you seem to be kind by nature, you let aggression pass if the harm to you is not too much and you fear disproportionate harm to those who harm you. The dangerous ground is related to this, in the past you were manipulated by your XW because of your excess of kindness, having clear signs of the inappropriate relationship of your XW and your friend, you gave in to his inappropriate behaviors. Today, in my opinion, having had some experience in dealing with really manipulative people, I see again an excess of kindness on your part towards them. The past shows you that they are not trustworthy people. There has been no apology to you, no gradual rapprochement, no attempt to gain your trust. You went from 0 to 8G in 1 second, from not talking to each other to acting as intimate friends and it was you who had the upper hand in that situation as the wronged one that you are, besides you keep defending them, because you refer to yourself as a mere collateral damage to the selfishness of those two lovers, of course before you also did it but before it allowed you to rationalize having to give your money to people who betrayed you, but this time you gain nothing except being able to talk to them as if nothing had happened. All this added to the chaos over covid19 and the recent death of your friend's wife makes me think that emotionally you may be on dangerous ground. 

BFF I am suspicious by nature, you certainly have a path of success to this very day that I will not overlook. 
I only saw something that from my point of view is worrying and I point it out to you.


Good Luck BFF


----------



## bff

Cuobs said:


> BFF I start by repeating what I told you before...
> I think of your story as one that exemplifies how to respect your own sensitivity and moral boundaries and still move quickly through the steps to take concrete steps to get those who hurt you out of your life. I have respect for your path.
> 
> That said I remember you yourself saying the role you played in your own marriage, the disrespect given to you in front of everyone by those 2, the times your now ex-wife, without any remorse, tried to harm you financially by trying to increase how much you paid her and more recently take over part of your company.
> 
> You didn't need to run, but I never expected a 30 minute conversation, "as if you were old friends". In my humble opinion if you brought them back into your life, you talked as close friends about very personal things at a very sensitive time for you, which is the death of an acquaintance from cancer, plus being in the middle of a pandemic, which is another stressor. This is all that is needed by people with highly functional psychopathic traits who know what keys to squeeze from the old but not dead BFF.
> 
> It is very difficult to change your whole persona, you seem to be kind by nature, you let aggression pass if the harm to you is not too much and you fear disproportionate harm to those who harm you. The dangerous ground is related to this, in the past you were manipulated by your XW because of your excess of kindness, having clear signs of the inappropriate relationship of your XW and your friend, you gave in to his inappropriate behaviors. Today, in my opinion, having had some experience in dealing with really manipulative people, I see again an excess of kindness on your part towards them. The past shows you that they are not trustworthy people. There has been no apology to you, no gradual rapprochement, no attempt to gain your trust. You went from 0 to 8G in 1 second, from not talking to each other to acting as intimate friends and it was you who had the upper hand in that situation as the wronged one that you are, besides you keep defending them, because you refer to yourself as a mere collateral damage to the selfishness of those two lovers, of course before you also did it but before it allowed you to rationalize having to give your money to people who betrayed you, but this time you gain nothing except being able to talk to them as if nothing had happened. All this added to the chaos over covid19 and the recent death of your friend's wife makes me think that emotionally you may be on dangerous ground.
> 
> BFF I am suspicious by nature, you certainly have a path of success to this very day that I will not overlook.
> I only saw something that from my point of view is worrying and I point it out to you.
> 
> 
> Good Luck BFF


Ah, got it. I just wasn’t sure what you meant!

Yeah, I see your point and I am incredibly trusting by nature. And while I don’t believe the infidelity was designed to hurt me, the same can’t be said of the aggressive pursuit of additional money years later. So yeah, I’m not welcoming them back into my life, I just made the call to have a conversation rather than a confrontation at a funeral. ;-)

You’re advice to be careful is appreciated.

bff


----------



## Cuobs

bff said:


> Ah, got it. I just wasn’t sure what you meant!
> 
> Yeah, I see your point and I am incredibly trusting by nature. And while I don’t believe the infidelity was designed to hurt me, the same can’t be said of the aggressive pursuit of additional money years later. So yeah, I’m not welcoming them back into my life, I just made the call to have a conversation rather than a confrontation at a funeral. ;-)
> 
> You’re advice to be careful is appreciated.
> 
> bff


Haha yeah translators don't exactly help me to be clear. 
Nothing more to say then, I'm sure you will continue to take good care of yourself and your family.


----------



## bff

Hey gang, nothing really new to report, but I still like to check-in every six months or so. My little girl is 2.5 years old, now, and has me wrapped around her finger. We've all managed to stay healthy throughout the pandemic. My family and I are doing fantastic. 

My best to all of you for a happy and healthy 2022.

bff


----------



## MattMatt

Hi, @bff, good to hear from you! 

So pleased you are doing so well.


----------



## Davit Bek

@bff So nice to hear you're doing so well. Nothing beats being loved, in peace with oneself, and truly happy. The best "revenge" is when you don't need one. And you've shown that.


----------



## SunCMars

bff said:


> Ah, got it. I just wasn’t sure what you meant!
> 
> Yeah, I see your point and I am incredibly trusting by nature. And while I don’t believe the infidelity was designed to hurt me, the same can’t be said of the aggressive pursuit of additional money years later. So yeah, I’m not welcoming them back into my life, I just made the call to have a conversation rather than a confrontation at a funeral. ;-)
> 
> You’re advice to be careful is appreciated.
> 
> bff


There is that power, that which we label as, _evil eyes_.

Their evil eyes were always upon you and your's.
And likely, even now, on your new family.

Most would think it is a weak thing, and it may be (now).

Knowing its value and strength _in each case _is beyond our calling.

At one time, it was a significant, but unknown potion/portion, that hidden malignancy.

Their tryst was that relationship cancer, and barely detectable for such a long time.

It still exists, its power over you seemingly harmless, witness your wealth and new family.

You know this evil undercurrent exists(theirs) if these 'two' are still in your thoughts.

In your thoughts '_for any reason_'.

Harm can be had from physical objects.
Harm can be had from flotsam psychic detritus, sourced and let loose by haters.

They had their slow poison hooks in you once. 
Ach! I reckon they always will, Aye, from afar.




_King Brian-_


----------



## Taxman

BFF good to hear from you. Thank you for the update. I hope she plastered a smile on her face while burning up seeing your daughter. It has always warmed my heart to see the barren ex cheater look into their ex's child's face and see what they could not do. That their replacement surpassed them in every way. Ok I may be an arse, but I have seen Karma do her thing too many times not to appreciate her.


----------



## ArthurGPym

Taxman said:


> BFF good to hear from you. Thank you for the update. I hope she plastered a smile on her face while burning up seeing your daughter. It has always warmed my heart to see the barren ex cheater look into their ex's child's face and see what they could not do. That their replacement surpassed them in every way. Ok I may be an arse, but I have seen Karma do her thing too many times not to appreciate her.



I'm not so sure I buy she ever wanted kids. If XWW truly wanted children, she and POS husband could have adopted one or two. 

I have friends who have adopted five kids and are blissfully happy. They have two white sons, one African American daughter, one Asian daughter and one white daughter with Down's Syndrome. They could be the subject of a reality TV show. They chose adoption instead of staying childless because they are kind, loving people with generous hearts... the exact opposite of OP's XWW.


----------



## bff

ArthurGPym said:


> I'm not so sure I buy she ever wanted kids. If XWW truly wanted children, she and POS husband could have adopted one or two.
> 
> I have friends who have adopted five kids and are blissfully happy. They have two white sons, one African American daughter, one Asian daughter and one white daughter with Down's Syndrome. They could be the subject of a reality TV show. They chose adoption instead of staying childless because they are kind, loving people with generous hearts... the exact opposite of OP's XWW.


^^^^ I've thought about this several times over the last 9+ years. She was so selfish in almost every aspect of her life. I can't imagine how that would translate into motherhood. We had two cats, and she started neglecting them over time. I guess it's hard to give attention to two 'relationships' AND two pets all at the same time. Her husband had two college-age daughters when they married, so I guess she gets some elements of what she might have wanted as a stepmother. They also got two dogs, so there's that.

Anyway, not my problem(s)! 🙃 

bff


----------



## Cynthia

bff said:


> Anyway, not my problem(s)! 🙃


Yay! You have traded up. Way up.


----------



## Wolfman1968

bff said:


> Hey gang, nothing really new to report, but I still like to check-in every six months or so. My little girl is 2.5 years old, now, and has me wrapped around her finger. We've all managed to stay healthy throughout the pandemic. My family and I are doing fantastic.
> 
> My best to all of you for a happy and healthy 2022.
> 
> bff


Thanks for keeping us updated.


----------



## Marc878

Cynthia said:


> Yay! You have traded up. Way up.


He’s the Lemonade Man🍋


----------



## WilsonGH

I just wanted to say that I've known men like OM, men who are successful with women, but who otherwise can't get their lives together. Their lives end up being directed by their overwhelming sense of inferiority and resentment toward other men. They constantly react to what they see as threatening stimuli instead of taking positive, constructive action to better themselves.

Given what I understand about men like this, OM was probably less interested in a relationship with your wife and more interested (subconsciously) in hurting you (a successful man) because he was resentful of your success. He probably still thinks he actually _is_ interested in her, but I'm guessing he's still confused based on your "old and tired" description of him. He thinks that he should now feel like a winner, but instead he still feels like a loser inside.

I've had to leave friends behind in the past because they were so negatively driven by this. Their lives end up being sad, and full of dysfunction and needless drama.

This is so common that it's cliché... it's mundane. It looks like you've moved on, in any case, and have a lifetime of love and success to look forward to.


----------



## Marc878

WilsonGH said:


> I just wanted to say that I've known men like OM, men who are successful with women, but who otherwise can't get their lives together. Their lives end up being directed by their overwhelming sense of inferiority and resentment toward other men. They constantly react to what they see as threatening stimuli instead of taking positive, constructive actions to better themselves.
> 
> Given what I understand about men like this, OM was probably less interested in a relationship with your wife and more interested (subconsciously) in hurting you (the successful man) because he was resentful of your success. He probably still thinks he actually _is_ interested in her, but I'm guessing he's still confused based on your "old and tired" description of him. He thinks that he should now feel like a winner, but instead he still feels like a loser inside.
> 
> I've had to leave friends behind in the past because they were so negatively driven by this. Their lives end up being sad, and full of dysfunction and needless drama.
> 
> This is so common that it's cliché... it's mundane. It looks like you've moved on, in any case, and have a lifetime of love and success to look forward to.


The big problem wasn’t the OM but his ex wife. This is why you never want to win a “pick me dance”.
His wife ended up with plan B because of her horrific choices. Long term affairs don’t just happen. They require lots of time, planning and deceit.
She like many knew this after the fact but must try and make the best of a bad situation. To not would be admitting who they really are. 
I’ve seen this happen a lot. The only good path is cut them and any enablers off. You can’t really fix or change people.
BFF made a great decision in recognizing this upfront. In doing so he saved himself a lot of turmoil and lost time/life that he’d never get back. Painful upfront but so worth it long term.


----------



## bff

Hey TAM friends and followers, 

It's been just over 10 years since I started this thread, ended my first marriage and began anew. 

I've been married now for 8 years, and my amazing wife and I have a 7 year old boy and a 3 year old girl. Nothing new to report other than steady as she goes! The kids put added pressure on my wife and I sometimes, but we're doing great - have much more open communication than I ever did with my XW. 

For anyone going through divorce, I hope my path through it and the results can be an inspiration. As I've said multiple times, the saying "Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting someone else to die" really stuck with me. I believe letting go of anger towards my XW and OM was key to my healing and moving on to better things. Of course, having TAM, this thread and the support from all of you as an outlet made this possible.

Hope you all are doing amazing.

bff


----------



## MattMatt

Thanks for your update @bff . Glad it's going so well for you and your family


----------



## Evinrude58

Glad you are happy and enjoyed the update. Strength and courage is a lot more rewarding than weakness and fear!


----------



## Marc878

Many seem to think it’s the end of the world. It’s the end of one life and the begging of a new one. 
You get to make that happen.


----------



## Cynthia

It's always nice to get an update on your happy life. It seems that some dreams really can come true. 
Blessings to you and your family, @bff.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


----------



## Wolfman1968

bff said:


> Hey TAM friends and followers,
> 
> It's been just over 10 years since I started this thread, ended my first marriage and began anew.
> 
> I've been married now for 8 years, and my amazing wife and I have a 7 year old boy and a 3 year old girl. Nothing new to report other than steady as she goes! The kids put added pressure on my wife and I sometimes, but we're doing great - have much more open communication than I ever did with my XW.
> 
> For anyone going through divorce, I hope my path through it and the results can be an inspiration. As I've said multiple times, the saying "Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting someone else to die" really stuck with me. I believe letting go of anger towards my XW and OM was key to my healing and moving on to better things. Of course, having TAM, this thread and the support from all of you as an outlet made this possible.
> 
> Hope you all are doing amazing.
> 
> bff


BFF--Thank you for continuing to keep us updated. 

Your thread has a lot of pointers for newbies; your experience is so typical that many people who suddenly find themselves in the position of a BS can use your example as a guide. You handled things magnificently.

I went back and read your early posts to refresh my memory. It's shocking to see how cheaters seem to follow the same script. That bizarre consistency makes examples like yours so useful, however, as there is a high likelihood that things will unravel in the exact same way for others. 

As a side note, I followed your story as it unfolded 10 years ago, although I didn't post much in those days. It seems like almost everyone from those days have moved on (or were banned) except for @MattMatt . But that makes your updates even more important, as it refreshes your story for a new crowd.


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## MattMatt

Several requested bans.


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## SunCMars

bff said:


> I believe letting go of anger towards my XW and OM was key to my healing and moving on to better things.
> 
> bff


By letting go of that hate, those poisonous memories, those Engrams, you self healed.
The memories were not erased, they were effectively painted over.
You are no longer 'pained' over them.

You put them in a proper perspective.

You do not necessarily want to totally erase a memory, any memory.

Better, would be, successfully putting it, or them, in a better light, taking the sting out of them.
You reformatted those bad memories.

You did this _intellectually._
You 'reasoned' them into a palatable package.

Few can do this.

The majority of humans have emotions that over-power reason.

Few humans can look down from that 50K feet and rationalize things to neutral.
Almost all suffer from this inability to 'get-over' true, or felt, injustice.

Humans are fallible, selfish, and lustful.
Many give in to their lower urging's, to their own detriment.

You realized that and forgave your XWW and OM.

The greatest example of forgiving was _Christ on the Cross._
In agony, and at the end, he said, _"Father forgive them, they know not what they do"._

I would add, _"They may know what they do, but they just do not have the tools, or the higher mindset to become those good, and better human beings"._

A vicious tiger that kills for sport, does not know what he is doing, in the larger sense, but he must be put down, regardless.
Most humans would not hate the tiger, they would merely fear him.

Applying the same logic with selfish and nasty human misbehavior should be possible, but it is not!

Having that larger sense of purpose is not something that insures our survival, as a species.
*Actually, it does and that is a flaw in our makeup!*

Religion gives us that sense of purpose, and that influence is slowly being erased from civilization.

Our makeup, our genetics prevents that race of Saints to emerge.
If such a race were to settle on Earth, the other races would plunder and kill it.

We *generally* and innately, harbor the seven deadly sins: _pride, greed, wrath, envy, lust, gluttony and __sloth_

Few can truly overcome our lower animal natures.

@bff, you apparently do not possess any of those 7 deadly sins, thus, you are lucky!

Congratulations!


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## ArthurGPym

bff is the kind of OP we should all aspire to be like.


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## Chuck71

Again......dunno how I missed your thread. My 10 year mark is in 5 weeks. Sometimes in life.....

we have to "lose" to "win"

Best wishes to a TAM HoF'er


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