# I don't want to be here.



## Sad and numb (Apr 11, 2012)

But, I have to express myself somehow.

About a year ago, I found evidence that my wife had, at least, an emotional affair with a boyfriend that dumped her when she was 17. We have been married 30 years and though I could sense that something was up with her, I was blindsided. I did not sleep for three days, didn't eat for two. I didn't work said I was sick. I was sick.
After sitting around like a blob for a couple of days, I began to gather information. I never looked at her phone or her computer, but I did, Found both to be password protected. Took about a day to figure out the password for both. Found more evidence. Love letters, hopes and dreams, over a hundred phone calls and about a hundred texts to a guy that dumped her before we ever met. I looked in her laptop bag and found a hotel receipt--four hours in the middle of the day. 
I confronted her with the receipt. She said that she had met somebody and things had gotten out of hand, but that she had got the room to meet him and backed out at the last minute. She stated that she could not do that to me and apologized. I felt she was sincere. I accepted it, but I told her that people don't just go from saying hello to being in a hotel room. She said that she knew it was wrong and that I deserved better from her. I told her that I knew who she was seeing and that I had every intention of flooding his Facebook with the information. She begged me not to. I didn't. 
About a week later, I found another hotel receipt. I confronted her again. Both receipts were almost a year old. She said that she had not had any sexual relationship with her old boyfriend and that he was engaged and was not interested in her that way. She then admitted to meeting someone at a seminar and having a fling. I was crushed, I guess that I went into shock because I felt nothing. No anger, no fear, nothing. I went into a shell and have not come out of it. Later, we talked and came to the conclusion that we did love each other and were going to try to make things work. 
I remained vigilant and checked her phone and computer every so often. She no longer had contact with the old boyfriend. I later found out through snooping her email that the old BF is decent guy who did not want a relationship with my wife and he had basically turned her down. I confronted her with this information and she said that his breaking up with her at 17 had ripped her soul and that she had to know if it could have worked. She said that she knew it couldn't have and she is over it, but said that it had been an issue for her for 35 years and she had to resolve it. OK, seemed logical. 
Three weeks ago, she advised me that she needed space and that she had rented an apartment a couple of counties away. This was a trial separation and that she would still give her share for the mortgage and upkeep of our home. She said that she needed time to figure herself out and to figure out her relationship with me. She said that either one of our two sons could stay with her if they wanted and that I was welcome there at any time, but she needed space and needed to be alone for a while. She said that she had no intention of seeing anyone romantically and didn't want me to either. We agreed that at the end of six months, we would either divorce or reconcile. I am figuring we will divorce. 
As we talked about the separation, I told her that she would have to be 100% truthful with me and cut off all contact with the old boyfriend or anyone else. No secrecy and that I would have to verify everything she told me. She then dropped a bombshell on me. The person she had been seeing was a woman. She said that she met this woman at a seminar and that she was very flattered and that the other woman just would not quit. She said that she found out very quickly that she was not a lesbian. Still the other woman did not relent and talked her into seeing her one more time. My wife said that she broke it off and has not been in contact with her since. I was dumbfounded and I still am. 
I should add that we are both therapists. Her job has better pay, mine has insurance. We both have periods of time "in session" that we can't/don't talk about. Both of our jobs are mobile, meaning we visit homes and centers. Specialized, but it also means that counseling is pretty much out of the question as we each have working relationships with any one we might see. 
But, still, I am not doing well with this. I gave everything I had. I gave up my hobbies and most of my friends for her. I have told couples all the words before and I am having trouble hearing them myself.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

for starters please read the newbie link in my signature


next please be aware that you have experienced what most of us have here

gaslighting- flat out crazy lies that we so want to believe that we accept it
trickle truth- where the truth comes out in drips and drabs and you never know when it will end

also- the old "I need space" line from a cheater that actually means- "I want space so I have the guilt free freedom to cheat some more"



as a therapist you surely see the patterns that people engaged in affairs go through due to the heightened dopamine and serotonin and you may be too close to the situation to see it clearly



my advice- do not accept a separation

state that it's a full try at R or you file for D, all truth must come out straight away, she must be completely transparent, show true remorse and work on the marriage or it's over.


the best way to save the marriage is to destroy it and see if it can rebuilt, otherwise you will remain stuck for a long time


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Sad: I really feel for you after all of those years of marriage. Seems that if you're going to make some kind of a concerted effort to save your relationship, and provided that there is sincere contrition on her part for the wrong-doing that she has committed against you(and you will be the sole judge of that), then you and your WS may need to agree to see a therapist that you both can mutually agree upon. 

In reality, none of us here at TAM really want to be here. But it is so much better than staying alone, holding in our own thought processes, thereby isolating ourselves from rationality. From that respect, welcome to the fold. We're here to help, and conversely, to be helped. In either case, you'll remain in my prayers! Best of luck to you, my friend!


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Every hotel receipt is an evidence of sex. Married people don't clandestinely meet in hotels for any other purpose. And no, this rule has no exceptions.

She is still seeing whoever she was seeing, other man, other woman or both. They are continuously in contact. This is her motivator for separation.

Install a keylogger on her PC, and drop a VAR at her place or under a seat in her vehicle. This will likely give you the closest thing to the truth. Don't count on her coming clean, won't happen.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

The iron is hot, it wont be for long. Take action. 

There are 3 absolutes you need to understand right now...

1. Everything that comes out of her mouth is a lie. Believe none of what you hear, half of what you see and only what you can verify.

2. The marriage you know is over. What you have is a piece of paper and memories. Nothing more. I'm not being dramatic. It's dead. Mourn it. What you will have at the end of this process will not in anyway resemble what you remember. 

3. If you want to salvage a relationship with this women, you have to be proactive. Your toughest fight will be inside yourself. Your enemies are denial and fear. Know them when you see them.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Your wife has also exposed you to STDs with her behaviour. Get tested

She has been doing this for a while and she now has her own little love nest to carry on from

Sorry


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## Sad and numb (Apr 11, 2012)

I do agree with what you say. I have to have the full truth and she must be transparent and open. 

I need the time of the separation to decide what I am going to do. 

I would rather do anything in the world than counsel couples. It takes a lot out of you because of the pain and lies. I haven't done it in years. 

I do love my wife and I enjoy living with her. But this garbage cannot continue. It would kill me.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

She continues to trickle truth you. The other woman was relentless so she had to have sex with her? She realized she was not a lesbian but since the other woman was so relentless toward her she had to have sex again? What is wrong with this picture.

Please get tested for STD's. Please see an attorney to understand your options. It is pretty obvious you continue to be lied to and that she no longer has respect for you or your marriage. If you do not respect yourself then who will?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

If the OW was so relentless in her pursuit, then why was your WW footing the bill for the hotel room.

Maybe W paid a couple of times and the OW paid a couple of times?

The point to these questions is to show that the iceberg is alot larger under the water, and when the trickle truth keeps changing, it surely validate what other are telling "they will always lie".

Not very helpful I know, but just a perspective on what you, me, and all of us here at TAM/CWI deal with.

You are not alone, brother!


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

To heck with separation. You cannot rebuild a marriage while apart. She either moves back home and works on reconcilliation and shuts down all contact with her girlfriend or you go to a lawyer and get the divorce ball rolling. That is the two optipons you give her. As a therapist you know all the angles she will try to meneuver around you. Put your foot down with her.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

:iagree:
Seperation is a bad idea,


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## Sad and numb (Apr 11, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> Sad: I really feel for you after all of those years of marriage. Seems that if you're going to make some kind of a concerted effort to save your relationship, and provided that there is sincere contrition on her part for the wrong-doing that she has committed against you(and you will be the sole judge of that), then you and your WS may need to agree to see a therapist that you both can mutually agree upon.
> 
> In reality, none of us here at TAM really want to be here. But it is so much better than staying alone, holding in our own thought processes, thereby isolating ourselves from rationality. From that respect, welcome to the fold. We're here to help, and conversely, to be helped. In either case, you'll remain in my prayers! Best of luck to you, my friend!


I do appreciate your response. Until I find out the facts, I don't know what to do. My mind is spinning now. 
About the therapist thing, we know and have a working relationship with with every decent therapist for 250 miles in any direction. And though confidentiality is the rule and none of the therapist we would seek out would violate this confidentiality, it would hurt both of us professionally. Therapists do talk among themselves, regularly. We both see mentors a couple of times a year or when we encounter something out of the ordinary. Couples counseling just wouldn't work. If it gets fixed, we will have to fix it ourselves.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

I'm not even sure there is the other woman. He knows about her only from WW's words: he had evidence about her contact with the former BF, but none of the woman. She might be gaslighting him.


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## FormerNiceGuy (Feb 13, 2012)

Sad and numb said:


> I gave everything I had. I gave up my hobbies and most of my friends for her. I have told couples all the words before and I am having trouble hearing them myself.


Read your words again. This is the root of your problem. As a therapist, I am guessing you understand co-dependence better than the rest of us.

I found No More Mr. Nice Guy to be a great help in understanding my own similar behavior. 

Your wife's behavior is deplorable. No healthy person would put up with it. There are lots of ways to deal with her infidelity and folks on this forum with experience to help you navigate the choices. 

I think you need to focus on yourself before you can be in a relationship with your wife, if there is a relationship to be had. Most therapists I know have their own therapist. This isn't about couples therapy, this is about you fixing you. As for hurting you professionally, sometimes the truth hurts.

Good luck.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Sad and numb said:


> I do love my wife and I enjoy living with her. But this garbage cannot continue. It would kill me.


ask yourself

of the patients you see


which become happier faster-

the ones who complain about what happens to them and are frozen in fear about doing something about it

or the ones who are proactive and take action?


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

I'm guessing your wife is approaching 50 if she was dumped 30 years ago at age 17. You surely realize that women's sex drives start cratering around 45-50 as their testosterone goes away. Just from the bio perspective her most prolific cheating years should be from 30 to 40, so it's highly likely this is long term behavior just coming to light. Your wife probably hasn't any sexual attraction toward you in a long long time. In fact, she probably thinks you'd have to pay to get any action at all.

Check this out and see where you fall on the spectrum (be realistic in your assessment): Alpha Game: The socio-sexual hierarchy

As for your wife's bisexuality, read this: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/25/magazine/25desire-t.html?pagewanted=all

The best, easiest, and most pain free solution is to go straight to divorce right now. Most guys do this, but not most of the guys who post here. If you're not up for immediate, decisive action in court then you must obtain intelligence. This means a PI or do it yourself, as others have advised above. GPS her car, VAR her car and apartment, key logger, cell phone crack, etc. She will engage in sexual activities while the so-called "trial separation" keeps her out of your line of sight.

If you decide you wish to continue with what has probably been an open marriage for years, you will have to start moving yourself upwards from your present gamma or delta on the male scale. You need to start projecting alpha behaviors.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

snap said:


> I'm not even sure there is the other woman. He knows about her only from WW's words: he had evidence about her contact with the former BF, but none of the woman. She might be gaslighting him.


Dead on the money.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Machiavelli said:


> The best, easiest, and most pain free solution is to go straight to divorce right now.* Most guys do this*, but not most of the guys who post here. .



orly?


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Snap makes an excellent point. You must consider that there is no other woman and she is with her male lover at the hotels. She probably thinks saying she is being with another woman would not be as hurtful and rejecting to you than saying she has been making love to her male lover. You have to consider this. You have to also get tested for STD's. I think Snap may be right that there is no other woman.


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## Sad and numb (Apr 11, 2012)

I have been to my physician and I have been checked for STDs. I even had a blood tox profile to see if I was being poisoned. I wasn't. I was just paranoid. 

I have also talked to an attorney and the belief is that she can't really hurt me financially only emotionally. 
Both of our boys are adult and one is out of college. They are both aware of the separation. Both are in the therapy field. 

The way I see it is that this thing is probably done. I will probably divorce her and get the records sealed. Waiting out a separation would benefit me and I can act on it when it suits ME.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> orly?


Actually, you're correct. That statement was a form of survivor's bias. We only hear about it from the guys who did it. Those of us who are indecisive are not quick to share that fact with our associates.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

I really didnt want to be here but Im SO glad I found TAM. My friends just werent getting it. I think you have to have experienced the pain of infidelity first hand before you truly KNOW. I was feeling very alone. It helps to have people that 'get it' and can offer advice because they have already walked in my shoes.

Good luck. Prayers to you.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You do not have all the truth, if you did you would know who she is planning on being with while separated.

You do one that she has pursued multiple physical affairs behind your back, this shows a complete lack of love, caring, and respect for your feelings.

She is remorseless serial cheater.

Now she is having you cool your heels for months while she tests out taking this other relationship, which she is denying, to a new level, one without you at all in her daily life.

You are being strung along as plan B or even plan C while she cheats. She has faced NO consequences at all frm her previous cheating and she views you as a stupid puppy dog that will take this emotional abuse from her and wait to get more.

Why wait for her new relationship to pan or die? Divorce her now. She hasn't treated you with any respect, why would you accept being treated like this by another person? Are you so lacking in self respect?

Act now, don't wait idly for months while she cheats. Divorce her and begin living life again, begin finding someone who isn't cold hearted like her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sad and numb (Apr 11, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> I'm guessing your wife is approaching 50 if she was dumped 30 years ago at age 17. You surely realize that women's sex drives start cratering around 45-50 as their testosterone goes away. Just from the bio perspective her most prolific cheating years should be from 30 to 40, so it's highly likely this is long term behavior just coming to light. Your wife probably hasn't any sexual attraction toward you in a long long time. In fact, she probably thinks you'd have to pay to get any action at all.
> 
> Check this out and see where you fall on the spectrum (be realistic in your assessment): Alpha Game: The socio-sexual hierarchy
> 
> ...


Are your kidding? I categorically reject any attempt to label or classify human beings. It is just not done. It is overly simplistic and fatalistic. Were I to entertain such beliefs I would be ignoring free will and my own dignity. I came into my marriage with dignity and, if need be, I will go out with dignity. I came here after stewing on it for a good while hoping for a point of view. I know where the blame lies. I know what must be done. I am just looking for the best way to resolve or reject. There are things here that I needed to hear. At least I know I am not alone. 
This alpha beta garbage is not backed up by any research and appears be be a pointless exercise in not taking responsibility for one's own life.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

The alpha-beta thing originates from canine behavior (dog pack dynamics) studies and as such has only limited relevance to humans. There are similarities but people tend to over-extend the conclusions.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I agree that people take the whole alpha thing too far here, my guess is that they wish to see others not make the same mistakes and be more decisive and tell them to "man up" and such

while I agree the message may be a bit too abrasive, the intent is still the same, people want to help and see you move from your limbo


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Yes, it's very much the good old advice to "man up", in Greek-sounding terms


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Alpha bets or not, you have allowed her to face no consequences for cheating and have accepted her calling the shots. From her view you are a push over that she can use and abuse with impunity and no guilt.

Perhaps that's the thing which you should really be realizing, She has no guilt. None.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aeg512 (Mar 22, 2011)

What I find very odd is that both you and your wife are therapists, yet when you discover information pertaining to the A, she seperates! That would make me think she is still in the A. If she was having problems with the M before hand she knew how to handle it if she wished. Something tells me she does not wish to even attempt to save the M.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

I am a therapist as well. If you separate you are making R difficult or it will not happen at all and it gives your WS a chance to really ramp up any A that is occuring. You two should not try to work on this yourselves and you should know better. Believe me brother, I made mistakes over the last several months, drinking, letting my anger control me, etc. where I became the bad guy.

There are good online counselors and folks that do it over the phone and even through live video, so if you are known as far as you say you are give this a shot. You need IC.

Get on some meds. How many times do we as therapist recommend that our clients go see their doctors? We refer all the time and in my practise I see good results when meds are used in conjunction with therapy.

Start practising some of the things that you teach your clients. Easier said then done, but it does work.

Two days ago I got a call that a client of mine was distraught over his wife. They are living apart (long story). I knew the situation must be bad. I called him and asked him what was going on and he told me he went to visit his wife at his MIL's house and saw her with another guy and he went off. He was drunk. I asked him if he was going to kill himself and he said, yes. He is now in a behavioral health hospital under suicide watch. I talked to him and his case manager today and he will be seeing me in about a week. I say all this because this sh*t is real and it will chew you up.

Stop giving excuses for getting help. You can't heal yourself.

Personnally I think it is bull that you can't see a therapist in your area. Hel* I am in therapy. First time I heard this excuse. I work with psychologists that are in therapy as well as doctors and it has not affected their positions.

I think you are embarrassed that this happened to you, get over it and face your demons and get help.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

She seems to be not really concerned about OP's concerns inasmuch as she wants to separate although for 6 months.

She has not come out fully yet.

How did you come to know about her affair 35 years ago?

I think her respect for you has drained out! Sorry.

I don't think she is so naive to keep the hotel receipts in her bag, after the first encounter. I think she wanted you to know that she is visiting hotels, for whatever reasons.

Respect for you is missing, OP.

Stand Up. Dont agree for 6 months separation.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

S&D,

I will add my two cents because your story just sucks as all of our stories do.

Your wife has walked out on you. That is what separations really are.

Your wife has cheated on you and still continues to.

Your wife continues to trickle truth you. Why? Because she is still cheating on you. Hence the lies just keep a rolling....

*Your wife has set a deadline of 6 months. How nice of her!*

*WHAT A MARRIAGE YOU HAVE! She has called every shot so far.*

I really do feel for you. Being blindsided by someone you love and trust is just horrible. 

I think you know what you have to do. Give her everything she now deserves. 

What a woman she turned out to be. What a therapist she has turned out to be. I pray to God I never meet a therapist with this type of experience. You will probably find out the OM/OW is a patient of hers. It has happened on here before.

My prayers today are for you.

Good Luck and I wish you strength on this horrible journey.

HM64


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

happyman64 said:


> S&D,
> 
> I will add my two cents because your story just sucks as all of our stories do.
> 
> ...


Or another therapist.

I imagine your WS has a fantasy of a happy blissful marriage that never happened with her old BF. Built it up in her mind. The old "what if". The BF rejects her. Knows she is a POS, maybe even knew she was fooling around with others in a hotel. She did not leave to figure things out. She left (I need space) to continue cheating. Just my opinion.

Your WS is messed up and is self destructing. Her behavior is reprehensible. 

Wait till she starts telling you all the rotten things you did or the things you did not do.

Brother, it will get worse. Prepare for it. And if she is truely evil, wait till she starts telling your other therapist friends how rotten you are.

Again, I don't get your situation. In my area therapists, psychologists, pyschiatrists, etc do not know each other well. There are too many groups and practises. Even in my organization I do not know most of them.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Someone is definitely in the picture. That you can be assured of. How you find him/her is up to you. Something tells me that your wife had more than 2 flings in the marriage


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

I agree with Warlock. When the situation smells like fish there is something fishy going on???

Isn't it amazing after a wayward spouse, lies to you, cheats on you with a man and/or a woman multiple times, they then have the nerve to say they need their space to figure things out!!!!

My answer would have been, "Oh you want space? How about starting now till infinity douche! Stop by next week for the divorce papers".

It is time to shake the tree S&D and see what things fall out. 

Your wife is very selfish.

Was she always like this?


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

Sad and numb said:


> I do agree with what you say. I have to have the full truth and she must be transparent and open.
> 
> I need the time of the separation to decide what I am going to do.
> 
> ...


:scratchhead:I am so sorry for you. First because this is happening to you and second because you have so little self respect that you are allowing your wife to walk all over you. You don't need a separation to work out you feelings and neither does she. you are rationalizing her desire to have "space" (translates to guilt free cheating). Man up. Tell her if she leaves it is divorce. Expose her infidelity. Quite frankly, you have been gas lighted multiple times here. You don't deserve this. Drop her like the piece of excrement she is and move on with your life.

I've been there and can tell you the grass _*is*_ greener on the other side. 

Good luck


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

snap said:


> The alpha-beta thing originates from canine behavior (dog pack dynamics) studies and as such has only limited relevance to humans. There are similarities but people tend to over-extend the conclusions.


While the terminology did originate with wolf pack study, as it applies to humans the terminology is carried over from primates, specifically chimpanzee troops. The key phrase to remember: "Most men can be attracted to most women, most women will never be attracted to most men."


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## kittykat09 (Mar 26, 2012)

If your wife spent all those years wishing she was with her ex, then you have always been guy #2 for her. She settled. She does not love you. If she loved you, she would not have cheated on you physically with these people, or emotionally with the ex. 

You deserve better. Get out, get help. Even if she wants you back after the separation, it will be because she has decided to stick with someone who enables her to cheat and not because she loves you.

It's sad, but it is the truth.


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## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

S&D, my wife's affair occurred after 26 yrs of marriage. She changed her attitude toward me only when she discovered my plans to leave. Consider serving her w/ divorce papers. If she has not completely checked out of your marriage, this may force her to re-evaluate her position and her intentions. That is, if you would even consider trying to save the marriage.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Sad and numb said:


> Are your kidding? I categorically reject any attempt to label or classify human beings. It is just not done. It is overly simplistic and fatalistic. Were I to entertain such beliefs I would be ignoring free will and my own dignity. I came into my marriage with dignity and, if need be, I will go out with dignity. I came here after stewing on it for a good while hoping for a point of view. I know where the blame lies. I know what must be done. I am just looking for the best way to resolve or reject. There are things here that I needed to hear. At least I know I am not alone.
> This alpha beta garbage is not backed up by any research and appears be be a pointless exercise in not taking responsibility for one's own life.


Suit yourself, but regardless of your philosophical view of the soul, PEA is a real substance with real effects on mood and behavior. Semen is full of mood elevating substances that are absorbed through the skin. That info has been documented from "hard" science, for what it's worth. A woman who is ovulating is attracted to a completely different type of man than she is the other 3 weeks. That last bit comes from social science, a "soft" science. Now, I'm sure you know that scientific fraud is rampant and about 55% of social science studies are fatally flawed, but you should at least be aware that there is much university research going on in the field of female sexual behavior.

Look at some of the stories on this site and you'll see that most of the women on the bell curve seen to be working from the same unwritten "script," free will or not. You can deny the biological imperatives all you want, but they still exist.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

S&N, you were never your wife's first choice. If she does come back to you, it's only because you are her only option right now. She will no doubt leave you when someone better comes along.

Like you, I was my wife's second choice. The love of her life dumped her over twenty years ago and weaseled his way back into her life almost three years ago (via Facebook.) She carried on an EA, which turned physical, for almost two years. He is (was?) married and lives in another state and eventually dumped her once again -- but by that time the damage was already done. She checked out of the marriage and distanced herself from me.

Come to think of it, I might have really been her third choice because I found out that she had been romantically involved with a guy that she had previously described to me as a 'really good friend.' She kept in contact with him all through our marriage and me, not being the jealous type, thought nothing of it. In retrospect, all those pictures of him and her with other 'couples' should've made it clear that they were once an item. Dam -- I was dumb.

As a therapist, I'm sure that you know that things will eventually get better. I'm four months out from Dday and I've found some positives that came out of this mess. They include: 1) being able to park smack dab in the middle of the garage; 2) new hopes and aspirations for a better future; 3) peace and quiet in the home; and finally, UNBELIEVABLE MONKEY SEX WITH A STUNNING DIVORCEE.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

The Count Strikes Again!

All Good Points, especially the last one......


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> The Count Strikes Again!
> 
> All Good Points, especially the last one......


Thanks happyman. One of the most insidious aspects of infidelity is the damage that it does to the psyche of the betrayed spouse. To have my wife tell me that she's just not attracted to me (pre Dday) was one of the most crushing things I've ever heard. If she didn't find me attractive, then how could anyone else? Clearly, this is not the case.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> To have my wife tell me that she's just not attracted to me (pre Dday) was one of the most crushing things I've ever heard. If she didn't find me attractive, then how could anyone else? Clearly, this is not the case.


Exactly. Men think their wives have lost interest in sex when in reality the wives have only lost interest in sex with the husband. It's pretty unusual for a woman to admit that, though.


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