# WW Remorse



## NYCBILL (Nov 27, 2017)

My wife and I have been in a very good reconciliation for over a year now. Since our DDAY last Aug, she's been nothing but remorseful and has worked very hard to figure out why she did it, and has worked hard to really better herself and thus our marriage (in IC and MC). I've never doubted her sincerity in knowing what she did was wrong, and how it almost cost her everything. As a point, she did not physically cheat. She sent pics and texted with a person whom I knew very well. We lost an entire group of friends b/c they wanted nothing to do with her after she did it and I've been 100% fine with it b/c these friends weren't really friends in the first place. We've now got new friends who are "safe" and support us 100%. It's a night and day difference between friends who only cared about themselves and new friends who have a vested interest in our happiness and reconciliation. 

Anyway, my issue is this. Last night my wife said she continues to be sad and sorry about how her decisions let me down and how her bad decisions impacted me. This all sounds nice, however, what irritates me is that she uses the word "me" and not "us". There is a big difference to me and she says those words are interchangeable. If she used "us" then it implies that she realizes that it wasn't just me that she let down but also herself, and our kids, etc. "Me" implies that she is sorry for what she did, knows it was wrong, but also could mean that despite all that, she still enjoyed it and even it was worth it. She says otherwise. Am I over-thinking it? Like i said, there hasn't been 1 day since our DDay that she's shown any sort of bad behavior, she's answered all my questions over and over, has really changed as a person etc. 

Me vs. Us is a big thing for me. She just didn't cheat on me, she cheated on us, herself, and her kids. She had cheap thrills with a loser who could have cost her everything. Luckily she didn't physically cheat or I'd have been out the door...Her affair didn't have anything to do with me per se and all to do with her lack of boundaries with men stemming all the way back to her childhood. She was depressed blah blah blah. 

Feel like I'm overthinking it but don't know...sorry for the ramble.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Me, is a hard thing to erase.
Us, is a concept hard to embrace.

Me, is safe.
Us, is divisive.

Us, cuts me in half.

If me is not secure.
Us, will be less than half of secure.

Just Sayin'





SunCMars- from the archives.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Some me's cannot be divided.
So strong do they identify with themselves.

These 'me's' are not worthy partners, not sharing partners.
Partners share the glory, share the pain, share life.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

So, her affair happened over a year ago? And you're confident that her apology and her commitment to your marriage are genuine and solid?

Why are the two of you still having these conversations about how sad and sorry she is?

And why do you continue to dissect her intentions?

The way this comes across to me is that you haven't forgiven her. Maybe on the surface, but not deep down. Otherwise, all this would be a nonissue, and you'd move on with life.

Have you shared your thoughts with her about her use of language?


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

Well bring this up on your MC if it's a big issue for you, that's what is for. But if isn't that big an issue then try to focus on bigger things, if she has been so Good at the rest then I would say pick your battles.... No WS is going to be perfect at R..... 

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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

I agree with other posters.

It's only been a year and you still understandably harbor some resentment.

You need more time to heal.

If her actions demonstrate a remorseful wife, that is all the matters.

Words mean very little and can be misinterpreted easily.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Confusing. Words can be defined differently by individuals. Most of the time it stems from seeing how different people used the words growing up. So when she says the me/us are interchangeable for her, she is probably telling you the truth.

Substitute "our marriage" for "Us" and it makes more sense to me. Marriage implies, not only the husband and wife, but also the kids, the promises made, and vows taken. She betrayed all that.

Honestly, I don't understand your level of anger over me/us. I think you are still extremely angry with her for what she did and are focusing that anger on semantics. If you are in IC, discuss it with your therapist. If not in IC, it might be a good idea to try it. 

I think you may be afraid that you don't know the whole truth. You are afraid that she did physically cheat in some manner and if that happened, you are going to have to act on it.

A polygraph may be the best thing for both of you.


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## NYCBILL (Nov 27, 2017)

I absolutely still harbor resentment towards her from time to time but it's not a constant thing....It's a wound that has healed tremendously but can still open up from time to time. I think I agree the post about actions mean more than words, so I'll pick my battles.

Thanks Everyone!


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## NYCBILL (Nov 27, 2017)

TDSC60 said:


> Confusing. Words can be defined differently by individuals. Most of the time it stems from seeing how different people used the words growing up. So when she says the me/us are interchangeable for her, she is probably telling you the truth.
> 
> Substitute "our marriage" for "Us" and it makes more sense to me. Marriage implies, not only the husband and wife, but also the kids, the promises made, and vows taken. She betrayed all that.
> 
> ...


She passed a polygraph and I believe it 99.5%. .5% of me will always think that she did...I just don't understand how she couldn't have given the proximity to the person. The dude definitely tried to get her alone but for some reason, it didn't happen. Well according to her, it was a red line. ha ha


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

How long was the affair? 

Did she exchange "I love you's" with him? 

How did you find out? 

Did she try to trickle truth when you found out?

The answer to these questions may help us understand what you are dealing with.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Reconciliation is so much harder than divorce. Basically, your wife is a trigger for you. Every time you see her or hear her voice you are reminded of what she did. It will take time to feel comfortable with her again. But make no mistake, your marriage will never be what it was before her affair. It is forever changed. That is what you have to accept and decide if you can live with.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

NYCBILL said:


> I absolutely still harbor resentment towards her from time to time but it's not a constant thing....It's a wound that has healed tremendously but can still open up from time to time. I think I agree the post about actions mean more than words, so I'll pick my battles.
> 
> Thanks Everyone!


Forgiving someone doesn’t mean you forget everything. However it does mean you can’t punish them any more.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

I went back and read your other thread. It answered most of the questions I asked.

Since you are posting again in a new thread, I don't think you are as far along with R as you seem to think.

The common consensus is that it takes - years to get over an affair and truly reconcile. You are not there yet.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

NYCBILL said:


> My wife and I have been in a very good reconciliation for over a year now. Since our DDAY last Aug, she's been nothing but remorseful and has worked very hard to figure out why she did it, and has worked hard to really better herself and thus our marriage (in IC and MC). I've never doubted her sincerity in knowing what she did was wrong, and how it almost cost her everything. As a point, she did not physically cheat. She sent pics and texted with a person whom I knew very well. We lost an entire group of friends b/c they wanted nothing to do with her after she did it and I've been 100% fine with it b/c these friends weren't really friends in the first place. We've now got new friends who are "safe" and support us 100%. It's a night and day difference between friends who only cared about themselves and new friends who have a vested interest in our happiness and reconciliation.
> 
> Anyway, my issue is this. Last night my wife said she continues to be sad and sorry about how her decisions let me down and how her bad decisions impacted me. This all sounds nice, however, what irritates me is that she uses the word "me" and not "us". There is a big difference to me and she says those words are interchangeable. If she used "us" then it implies that she realizes that it wasn't just me that she let down but also herself, and our kids, etc. "Me" implies that she is sorry for what she did, knows it was wrong, but also could mean that despite all that, she still enjoyed it and even it was worth it. She says otherwise. Am I over-thinking it? Like i said, there hasn't been 1 day since our DDay that she's shown any sort of bad behavior, she's answered all my questions over and over, has really changed as a person etc.
> 
> ...



Yes, you are overthinking.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

personofinterest said:


> Yes, you are overthinking.


Agree. Take it from an overthinker. You are overthinking it.

You just need more time. The damage caused by an EA can take a long time to recover from. I am 6 years out and am 99% okay. You'll never quite be the same, but every year will get way easier. You are lucky she is so remorseful. Most of us don't get that.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

I went back to NYC and found the receipt for the Bill, the one yet to be paid.

Do not accept her money, her actions, her promises as payment.

Accept that she made a decision, not a mistake.

Her decision was made in error. 
The bill, while due, should never to be forgiven, is money in the bank.

It has, and it may continue to be, an inspiration for her to try harder.
For her to be more loving. More so than most non-cheating wives.

Her debt is her guilt working for you, repaying said debt, forever. 

Reading your past post(s), I agree with your conclusion.
Their minds mingled, their nether regions had tingled, never touched.

Use this owing it to your advantage. It is the only silver left in her lining.
Polish that silver, let her show it off, let it shine.




KB-


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

In the end, you own her end.

You own the Moon, her waning waxing, wayward Moon.
You own her oft sad, blue Moon.

Still.

The Moon acts on water, does raise the tide.

Her Moon still pulls, raises your watery passion.
She still raises your pillar of Manhood.

You won.

Still.

Still my heart.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Man 99% of these threads about Reconciliation are like this. Here is the truth. THIS IS IT. This is what you signed up for. You are trying to do something that is really really hard and against most people's impulse. It's going to suck some times. At least she is trying, most of the time the answer to questions like this is (what do you expect you are married to an *******.) All WS are self centered it's their nature it's how she cheated in the first place. I would point it out and see if she can change, probably not. At least in your case she is trying to be better. 

The only way to make it truly go away is to fall in love with someone else, since you have no desire to do that then you have to learn to live with it.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

The word forgive means to give for - to pay a debt/to cancel a debt that someone else owes. The innocent person takes on the weight and the damage and frees the guilty party.

It can't be earned. It's an undeserved gift.

It's totally up to you how long you keep your wife (or she keeps herself) in a perpetual state of grovelling, but that's not forgiveness.

And something I've mentioned here before...the more she's required to keep rehashing this over time, the less 'sad and sorry' is going to mean. Keeping up the same level of heartfelt remorse - personally, I don't think it's possible. It just becomes an expected script.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

NYCBILL said:


> Am I over-thinking it?



Yes.

Also what exactly did she do/say? I don’t really view non physical betrayal the same as kinky physical betrayal. People say all kinds of crap, under certain circumstances. But it depends. If she planned a definitive getaway from you..maybe. But then she probably would have gotten away. Otherwise she didn’t mean it...And like I said, people say all kinds of crap and don’t mean it.
But somehow my wife getting dingdonged and enjoying it a lot would bother me.
On the other hand, it also depends...Under some circumstances maybe I would be ok. It’s really just ego. And if I can shed the feeling of being so attached to my ego, it should, in theory, also not bother me. But I haven’t tried yet.

Yeah. Now I am the one overthinking it...You were saying...?



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## NYCBILL (Nov 27, 2017)

TDSC60 said:


> How long was the affair?
> 
> Did she exchange "I love you's" with him?
> 
> ...


The actual affair went on for 3 months, but I didn't find out until several months later through my own PI skills. I felt our relationship had been off for months. There was 1 week of trickle truth and then it all stopped b/c she knew I was going to leave. She never exchanged any sort of "love" messages with this other person. It was strictly sexual. How do I know? Well I asked and she told me plus I recovered most of the text messages. They never spoke on the phone (looked at all the records), she didn't have a burner. I played detective for a few months after we started working on things and didn't find anything. She's playing it straight now, I could be wrong but I feel like she isn't hiding anything anymore. Her stories have stayed consistent despite me asking a billion questions in a billion different ways. She passed the poly so I feel I have 99% of the story.


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## NYCBILL (Nov 27, 2017)

inmyprime said:


> Yes.
> 
> Also what exactly did she do/say? I don’t really view non physical betrayal the same as kinky physical betrayal. People say all kinds of crap, under certain circumstances. But it depends. If she planned a definitive getaway from you..maybe. But then she probably would have gotten away. Otherwise she didn’t mean it...And like I said, people say all kinds of crap and don’t mean it.
> But somehow my wife getting dingdonged and enjoying it a lot would bother me.
> ...


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## NYCBILL (Nov 27, 2017)

minimalME said:


> The word forgive means to give for - to pay a debt/to cancel a debt that someone else owes. The innocent person takes on the weight and the damage and frees the guilty party.
> 
> It can't be earned. It's an undeserved gift.
> 
> ...


Agreed, and to be clear I rarely bring up the affair any longer (it's been months). Her apologizing to me was caused by something she was thinking about. But I agree that this can't be something that is held over her head like a weapon. I've forgiven her, told her to stop feeling guilty, and told her that we both need to hold up our respective ends of the bargain to keep our marriage moving forward.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

I see. I guess she never met him in person?
In which case I would view it as a fantasy thing that she’s acting out. It’s probably less to do with the guy but more about her own sexuality.

I don’t want to minimise it because what she did was still wrong...But I don’t think she did it because she was interested in somebody else but probably because she wanted to spice up her fantasy world or whatever. (Not like porn, but more interactive).

Either way it’s in a different league than a full on PA (and probably also not even as bad as an “I am going to leave my husband to runaway and live with you happily ever after” EA).
If you are confident she is not withholding other stuff (like kinky sex in motels with that guy), I would try and enjoy the ‘hysterical bonding’. This kind of thing can make couples stronger, paradoxically.



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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

I concur. Yes are overthinking it.

No, you haven't gotten over the A.

This is why it gnaws at you. This is why everything gnaws at you. This is why you nitpick.

You are still raw.

If she continues to be the model for R then trust that time will heal. 

And even if you heal, you will never forget.

That is about all I can guarantee.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

I'm thinking you are still in the process of healing. In her mind/heart you were the one MOST betrayed and she wants to assure you. 

She may be afraid to grasp the total concept of loss of everything, but underneath she knows. Trust comes and goes and loss of trust leads to dwelling on minutiae. Don't hurt yourself with painful junk thoughts.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

NYCBILL said:


> Her affair didn't have anything to do with me per se and all to do with her lack of boundaries with men stemming all the way back to her childhood. She was depressed blah blah blah.
> 
> Feel like I'm overthinking it but don't know...sorry for the ramble.


Bill, my man, you keep telling yourself her affair had nothing to do with you and everything to do with her, is a load of crap and the reason you keep wrestling with this issue. The reason she had an affair is she had lowered her romantic interest in you and upon close examination, you most likely contributed to it. If you take an open minded look at the situation surrounding other men in your shoes, you'll see that women with a high romantic interest in their partner don't get lured in by guys casting bait. Every one of the cats have the same, "A distance has develped between us" story. At least, as far as you know, she didn't end up in the guys creel. Your job needs to be what you did to lower her romantic interest and take corrective action unless you want a repeat of the same thing down the road. (ever ask yourself why some guys get cheated on by every girl they meet)
As far as "us" goes, you're making too much out of semantics. Knowing women like I do, the girl is telling you she sees your pain and she knows she caused it. That's as good as its going to get because, just like you and everybody else, she justified it in her mind before she did whatever she did. Of course if you ride her azz long enough, she may break down a phrase it like you want to hear it. If you can get her to do that, compare it to duty sex.
You're not overthinking it. You're obsessing on it. You discovered the tort, you confronted, she fessed up, passed a polygraph, et cetera. You took the reconciliation highway. It don't take you to Perfection Valley. Either you're going to have to stay on it with the passenger you got or take an exit and part ways.


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## NYCBILL (Nov 27, 2017)

@VladDracul, You are right, it did have something to do with romantic interest in "us" which was supplemented by someone who was paying way more attention to her at the time, no doubt about that. We had grown complacent, got distracted by our kids, stopped focusing on us, etc. I guess I mean I didn't cause her to cheat. We didn't address our issues, neither her or I and thus we were going through the motions. She took the easy way out in a way that caused her to feel good temporarily yet risk everything.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

NYC,

You said the affair was not physical, not romantic, but just sexual.

Does that mean it was mostly sexting and masturbation?

I've never been in a modern EA just wondering.

Tamat


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Kind of a catch22. You didnt pay her enough attention so some other dude moved in for the leftovers. Now you feel you have to give her more attention or it will happen again. Only now since she cheated, you wonder why you should have to pay her any attention unless it is to remind her she f-ked it up.

Whatever the case, if you are confident nothing physical happened and believe it, you just need to let it go. That doesnt mean you will forget or try to, but you heard all the details, youve approached it in a 1000 direction, now you are just beating a dead horse. Enjoy your life, with or without her.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

NYCBILL, did she ever use the word "you"? Well, she did cheat. An ERA is cheating. And since it went on for months, I'd be surprised if it weren't a PA, the poly notwithstanding.
In any event, you are still hurting, and it will go on, one way or another, for a long time. I hope you touched bases with an attorney.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

@NYCBILL

Curious? Did she *confess* on her own, without pressure or being exposed... or as usual she got sloppy and got caught?

DD sux regardless, but R with a _"honest" _confessing cheater is at least a start.


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

NYCBILL, standard recovery is easily at least 2 years out, don't rush it, u gotta let your feelings flow and talk to her and your IC. Is just how recovery works, no shortcuts, and sweeping under rug will not work, leads to resentment


Best of luck


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

CantBelieveThis said:


> NYCBILL, standard recovery is easily at least 2 years out, don't rush it, u gotta let your feelings flow and talk to her and your IC. Is just how recovery works, no shortcuts, and sweeping under rug will not work, leads to resentment
> 
> 
> Best of luck


 @NYCBILL I have been exactly where you are. It took me a solid 2-3 years before I didn't think about it every day. But it does fade. 

Be careful of the backsliding. It sometimes happens and you have to be mentally prepared for what you will do if it does. Your wife does seem more remorseful than most, so odds are more in your favor than average. If your wife is doing a lot of heavy lifting, you are in good shape. 

Only bring up the affair if there is a real purpose, something you need to work out. Don't do it to punish her, that won't help your relationship.

Don't overthink. Accept her heavy lifting as a gift. Now, if you go another year or two and aren't healing, then maybe no amount of heavy lifting will be enough, and you'll have to let her go. But it's too soon now to know that. 2-3 years is about right.


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## mickybill (Nov 29, 2016)

I am just catching your thread so maybe this has been covered. 
She may feel that the A #1 person she hurt was you. By calling it "us" it may feel to her that she is diffusing the impact she made on YOU by adding the kids, the family, the trust and herself.
Maybe you are overthinking but talk to the IC/MC about it, I don't think it's a bad thing. She knows that she hurt a lot more people than just you.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

NYCBILL said:


> Last night my wife said she continues to be sad and sorry about how her decisions let me down and how her bad decisions impacted me. This all sounds nice, however, what irritates me is that she uses the word "me" and not "us". There is a big difference to me and she says those words are interchangeable. If she used "us" then it implies that she realizes that it wasn't just me that she let down but also herself, and our kids, etc. "Me" implies that she is sorry for what she did, knows it was wrong, but also could mean that despite all that, she still enjoyed it and even it was worth it.


See, my first instinct is that she is still so remorseful that she is hyper-focused on you, and sees all her bad actions as hurting YOU, meaning whatever SHE was part of no longer matters as much because she has to atone for herself. In other words, to her, you have become the #1 focus and she still doesn't feel safe or worthy. JMHO


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