# Should I kick my wife out or let her stay?



## Wolfgar

I'm in a pretty difficult situation with my wife (perhaps what you guys would call limbo?). She cheated on me and no longer wants to be with me, but is fine living together for the time being. She regrets cheating and is going to start seeing a therapist to help herself out (not marriage counselling). She has promised that while living together and still being married, she will be faithful and not talk to or see other men (she says she has no interest right now). I still love her and I'd like to give our marriage a chance, but I obviously can't change how she feels and I don't want to come off as weak. I thought perhaps letting her stay, at least for the holidays, would be better for our two kids and perhaps give her a chance to realize what she's throwing away (we had a happy loving marriage up until her mental break down a month ago). In the meantime, I'd be looking for a job and saving up money to eventually move out ...should she not wake up.

Currently, I am laid off and have no money to move out and find a place of my own. She's working and paying the bills. I have no family/friends in the area I can live with either. So my only other option would be to kick her out and she'd be forced to either live with her dad or one of her friends. This is definitely the harder of the two options. I'd have no money (looking desperately for a job now) and I feel that kicking her out would leave us zero hope of working things out and it would essentially be the nail in the coffin. This would leave me in our home with all of the responsibility of taking care of the kids and running the house hold...and give her the freedom to live the single life with zero responsibility (that doesn't seem fair to me?).

The past 2 1/2 since her affair we have been living together and it has been up and down, i'd say for the most part it's been fine. Some days are good, we've even had fun...going out on dates and such (we are still intimate together and having sex a lot). Other days, the days when I can't get the mental images of what she did out of my head are bad and knowing that she has no intention of giving our marriage a chance doesn't help either. Lately, I have constantly been bringing it up and talking about it and wanting to know the details and it's been exhausting her and it's definitely pushing her further away. I realize that its probably best for me to stop talking about it and concentrate on myself for the time being, but its easier said than done. 

(Feel free to read up on my previous post)


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## Almostrecovered

so why are you having sex if it's over?

you need to detach


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## Yardman

Sounds to me like she is still lost in the affair fog. I'd let some time pass and see if see if the fog lifts


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## PBear

Unless things are different in your neck of the woods, you can't simply "kick her out". You can ask her to leave, try to convince her to leave, make her life unpleasant enough that she voluntarily wants to leave... But you can't force her out of the house. 

You can, however, distance yourself from her within the house. Separate sleeping arrangements, separate social arrangements, etc. And no sex until she commits to the marriage again! 

In the meantime, it would obviously be in your best interest to get yourself self supporting. You can't depend on her.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Yardman

Hope you find employment soon.
Is she still working in the bar?

Best sounding result to me would be that you find work, she quits the bar, and her affair fog evaporates


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## Wolfgar

PBear said:


> Unless things are different in your neck of the woods, you can't simply "kick her out". You can ask her to leave, try to convince her to leave, make her life unpleasant enough that she voluntarily wants to leave... But you can't force her out of the house.
> 
> You can, however, distance yourself from her within the house. Separate sleeping arrangements, separate social arrangements, etc. And no sex until she commits to the marriage again!
> 
> In the meantime, it would obviously be in your best interest to get yourself self supporting. You can't depend on her.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She has agreed to leave if I want her too. And ya, no sex would be more of a punishment to me then it would be to her. Maybe theres something wrong with me even wanting to touch her, but she's beautiful and I'm still highly attracted to her. But I agree, I should stop it.


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## Wolfgar

Yardman said:


> Hope you find employment soon.
> Is she still working in the bar?
> 
> Best sounding result to me would be that you find work, she quits the bar, and her affair fog evaporates


Yea, Michigan is a rough place to find a decent job right now

She's not quiting the bar and I haven't really asked her too. She wants to work there during the holiday rush (its in a mall), after that she said she'd look for another job.

I'm hoping that fog does evaporate and she starts seeing clearly (hopefully her therapist will help with that), she was an amazing person before all of this.


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## southern wife

Almostrecovered said:


> so why are you having sex if it's over?
> 
> you need to detach



:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

Why in the world are you still sleeping with her? :scratchhead:


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## Wolfgar

southern wife said:


> :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:
> 
> Why in the world are you still sleeping with her? :scratchhead:



Ya, I figured you guys would get upset with that. Like I said, I'm attracted to her and have needs 

I agree though, I should stop and show a bit more self control.


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## Almostrecovered

Seangar said:


> Ya, I figured you guys would get upset with that. Like I said, I'm attracted to her and have needs
> 
> I agree though, I should stop and show a bit more self control.



but the main problem is that she has established that she doesn't want to work on R, therefore you need to start detaching and showing yourself that you will be just fine without her, that includes the sex

another point- she cheated on you and could still be cheating on you and give you an std


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## Yardman

I get that you have needs and find her attractive. 

If you do have sex with her again, what would her reaction be if you used a condom? That would definately send her a message if it's not something you normally do.


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## PBear

You also need to show her that there's a price to be paid for her refusal to commit to your marriage. Why should she change anything if there is no reason to?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wolfgar

Yardman said:


> I get that you have needs and find her attractive.
> 
> If you do have sex with her again, what would her reaction be if you used a condom? That would definately send her a message if it's not something you normally do.


Haha ya, I suppose that would send a pretty strong message. And I agree Bear, she's gotta realize she can't have the life we once shared because of her decisions. I get that. I guess it seems like if I detach myself from her, it just makes it easier for her to let go...same goes with her moving out. Perhaps I'll move down to our basement and stop sleeping in the same bed with her though.

Anyhow, back on topic. Anyone else have any input?


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## Jen S

I had a good male work friend who went through this with his wife. He let her stay even after she offered to move out because he was still very much in love with her. It worked for about a year or so. Then she started bringing men into the home for the night while he slept on the couch. He was really messed up at work but he wouldn't ask her to leave or leave himself. He was just sure she would come around if he had her stay around, even when she was bringing men into the home. I'm not saying your wife would ever do this and this has always been my view of the worst case scenario, but be sure that she understands that there are absolute rules if she remains. It's kind of a catch 22 because she knew your rules before obviously and broke them, but if you're going to try this make sure you guys are on the same page.


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## Wolfgar

Jen S said:


> I had a good male work friend who went through this with his wife. He let her stay even after she offered to move out because he was still very much in love with her. It worked for about a year or so. Then she started bringing men into the home for the night while he slept on the couch. He was really messed up at work but he wouldn't ask her to leave or leave himself. He was just sure she would come around if he had her stay around, even when she was bringing men into the home. I'm not saying your wife would ever do this and this has always been my view of the worst case scenario, but be sure that she understands that there are absolute rules if she remains. It's kind of a catch 22 because she knew your rules before obviously and broke them, but if you're going to try this make sure you guys are on the same page.


I was out of state working when she cheated But ya, I would def. be long gone before it ever got to that point. If things have changed after the holidays, one of us is going...This is honestly the worst moment in my life, I can't get what she did out of my head...and living here with her makes it hard to just hold it all in.


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## Dadof3

Don't move out of your bed/room. She does until her Sh*t is together.


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## AppleDucklings

ok, ok, ok. All I see here is you making excuses (I'm guilty of doing that as well when my own marriage was on the rocks) But that's all your doing. "I have needs.", "she's so attractive", and "I'm hoping it will clear on its own" NO NO NO!!!!! No. Your needs right now are not sexual. No more thinking with your d!ck. Think with the head that is attached to your neck instead. Your needs are to find a job, and to start detaching. She is not attractive right now. She fvcked some other dude. What on earth is attractive about that? Right now, she is ugly. She can earn her pretty back later on when she becomes genuinely sorry. For now, she's a wart hog. And this does not go away on it's own. It must be dealt with. What is the best way to get dust out of a rug? You take it outside and beat it. (Don't literally do this with your wife.) But think of it that way if you really want to save your marriage. If you just vacuum over the rug, it only sucks up some dust, while stirring up more. Then that dust settles back into the rug, and it's not actually clean. Instead, you take the rug outside and you beat the hell out of it. Then the dust settles outside and not in your house to fall back onto your rug. In other words, man up and be tough. I don't mean to sound so harsh with you but come on now. I had to live with my ex for a time before I finally got him to leave. Yeah, I had needs, but I didn't sleep with my exhusband. I didn't find him the least bit appealing knowing what he had done. Okay, I'm sorry if I came across harsh. But, I saw a lot of myself with all the excuses.


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## Almostrecovered

apple, you certainly have come a long way

that post was perfect


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## morituri

AppleDucklings said:


> ok, ok, ok. All I see here is you making excuses (I'm guilty of doing that as well when my own marriage was on the rocks) But that's all your doing. "I have needs.", "she's so attractive", and "I'm hoping it will clear on its own" NO NO NO!!!!! No. Your needs right now are not sexual. No more thinking with your d!ck. Think with the head that is attached to your neck instead. Your needs are to find a job, and to start detaching. She is not attractive right now. She fvcked some other dude. What on earth is attractive about that? Right now, she is ugly. She can earn her pretty back later on when she becomes genuinely sorry. For now, she's a wart hog. And this does not go away on it's own. It must be dealt with. What is the best way to get dust out of a rug? You take it outside and beat it. (Don't literally do this with your wife.) But think of it that way if you really want to save your marriage. If you just vacuum over the rug, it only sucks up some dust, while stirring up more. Then that dust settles back into the rug, and it's not actually clean. Instead, you take the rug outside and you beat the hell out of it. Then the dust settles outside and not in your house to fall back onto your rug. In other words, man up and be tough. I don't mean to sound so harsh with you but come on now. I had to live with my ex for a time before I finally got him to leave. Yeah, I had needs, but I didn't sleep with my exhusband. I didn't find him the least bit appealing knowing what he had done. Okay, I'm sorry if I came across harsh. But, I saw a lot of myself with all the excuses.


Stop making too much damn sense girl


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## Wolfgar

Last night we talked and apparently she misses him, or misses the "fun" they had together (going out, him making her feel good, the excitement she got from kissing him, blah blah). She said she's been tempted to call him, but hasn't. She knows nothing can come of the relationship, seeing as he's married as well. I'm sure that if he was single, she'd easily still be seeing him and probably not be with me. Our talk also helped me understand her sudden change of feelings for me. Originally I thought her affiar was a result of our marriage problems (which I'm sure it is in a way), but I was confused by her lack or willingness to make things work and put an effort into fixing our problems. Now I realize that this guy has been around since the beginning of our problems over a month ago. He started off as a simple bar guest who she developed a crush on, after I went out of state to work a few weeks ago she took that opportunity to go on a date with him. She originally acted like she barely cared about him and she just wanted to have fun, that in her eyes our relationship was over anyhow. Her feelings for him have made her doubt her feelings for me. 

Last night after our talk, I told her to sleep on the couch, that she didn't deserve to sleep in our bed. No more sex, no more pleading with her and trying to make her realize she's thrown our family away for the cheap excitement she's gotten from a married man with two kids of his own. He level of selfishness throughout all of this has amazed me, she has truly transformed as a person.


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## morituri

> Last night after our talk, I told her to sleep on the couch, that she didn't deserve to sleep in our bed. No more sex, no more pleading with her and trying to make her realize she's thrown our family away for the cheap excitement she's gotten from a married man with two kids of his own. Her level of selfishness throughout all of this has amazed me, she has truly transformed as a person.


Good for you. She does not deserve to share a bed with a faithful husband, loving husband. With all due respect, she is an idiot because most weasels will treat her like a fvck toy


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## Shaggy

Seangar said:


> Last night we talked and apparently she misses him, or misses the "fun" they had together (going out, him making her feel good,
> 
> . Now I realize that this guy has been around since the beginning of our problems over a month ago. He started off as a simple bar guest who she developed a crush on, after I went out of state to work a few weeks ago she took that opportunity to go on a date with him. .


Now you realize the need to find him and tell his wife! This guy is still messing with your marriage, and given that he has suffered no consequences, he is still free to hook up with her the moment she decides to. Also note, she has a way of contacting him when she wants to. You need to be able to track if she does and blow it up.

Find this guy and make cheating with your wife painful for him.


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## ArmyofJuan

Seangar said:


> Last night after our talk, I told her to sleep on the couch, that she didn't deserve to sleep in our bed. No more sex, no more pleading with her and trying to make her realize she's thrown our family away for the cheap excitement she's gotten from a married man with two kids of his own. He level of selfishness throughout all of this has amazed me, she has truly transformed as a person.


Looks like you are coming out of YOUR fog. Sometimes we need a slap in the face ourselves to finally get the balls to man up and do what's best for us.

Know that she can be replaced, if you can get her you can get just as good or better down the road. Once you are over your fear of losing her and more focused on yourself you will feel a million times better. 5 years from now this will be a distant memory and you'll be wondering what the big deal was.


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## Initfortheduration

I commend you on confronting her. She will now begin to experience the fog clearing. Tell the OMs wife and he will surely throw her under the bus. Keep up the good work, and stay strong.


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## F-102

Find out where the OM lives, put all of her stuff in a u-haul and park it in his driveway. Tell him and his W that your W is THEIR problem now. When your W wonders where her stuff is, tell her that it is at the house of the man she wants to be with.


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## morituri

I am the survivor of both the death of a loving wife (first wife) and a cheating wife (second wife), and now the SO in a committed relationship for one year. I am a 53 year old man and am still being hit upon by women younger than me, what are the odds that there are women out there wanting to be with you?


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## Shaggy

BTW, from her words - I predict the following:
1. In the bar she works, she is still surrounded by cheaters and lowlifes. The people she works with and the customers. There is absolutely no hope of your marriage ever being remade with her there. She hears the tales and the drama, see sees the dates and the party she is denied being in because of YOU. 

2. She is likely still in contact with him somehow. Either she is seeing him in the bar - but maybe not talking to him - or he has been fishing for contact with her.


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## Initfortheduration

Go rent the movie "Bar rag". And you can show her what her future is. Two old alchy *****s (Faye Dunneway, and Alice Kriege) fighting over Mickey Rourke.


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## F-102

Even if she never sees the OM again, there is bound to be a long line of new guys behind him at the bar.


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## Yardman

Good to hear you reclaimed the bed and sent her to the couch. Hope you tell the wife of the OM what is going on.

Agree with F-102 that she will likey replace this man with another bar patron. Next guy might not be married. Does your wife still plan on quitting the bar job?


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## Shaggy

Beware, she may try to use your sending her to the couch as a justification for more cheating. 

It's crap, but in her head anything she wants - she should have, and anyone who stands in her way is wrong.


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## Wolfgar

This morning when she got up she basically ignored me, got ready for work, and left. She's acting pretty cold hearted now after our talk. She planned on making thanksgiving dinner for me and our two boys tomorrow, but I told her I was thinkin about going to my sisters instead (leaving her at home alone)...do you guys think this is a good idea?

Also concerning the guy she cheated on me with, the only solid info I have on him is his phone number. Only way I could find out where he lives and contact his wife would be to constantly stake out my wifes work (which I doubt I'll do). Although I did ask her to txt me if he comes up there again and she agreed too (not sure how honest she's being). I also may try contacting a private investigator and asking how much he would charge me to find some info on him (I'm pretty broke right now). 

I have yet to call the guy, do you guys think I should? Or would it be pointless. What should I say? I thought about sending him a txt from my wifes second phone (the one she used to hide talking to him from me) saying, "Don't contact my wife, don't go up to her work, I'm only going to tell you once"

And yes, I realize the only thing keeping her from having a real relationship with this guy is because he's married. I'm sure if she continues to work there she'll eventually find another single guy to replace him. She says she loves her job, that its fun...and it would be stupid of her to quit while I'm unemployed, especially during the holiday rush. She's expressed to me that she would look for new work after the holidays...not sure how serious she is about that.


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## Yardman

There are reverse phone number look up websites. Most charge a few bucks, but not that much.

I wouldn't change Thanksgiving plans. Of course she says her job is fun...it's where she gets male attention and hooks up. Hope you find work soon, I also question how serious she will be about looking for different employment after the holidays. I wouldn't call the OM until I found out some more info about him or at least made a couple new searches


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## Almostrecovered

Yardman said:


> There are reverse phone number look up websites. Most charge a few bucks, but not that much.


if I recall correctly he tried a bunch already with no success, could be a burner phone

some PI's have straight fees for just getting info from a phone number as they have connections of getting it but if it's a burner phone then it's going nowhere


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## Yardman

Ok, didn't catch the burner phone part earlier. The common name of the OM and the burner phone cause me to question Seangar's wife's "story". The OM could be anyone. He may just be a pick-up-artist who is not even married.


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## warlock07

I think Seangar is doing it wrong here. He is in a lot of anger now. The wife now has built up a lot of resentment(admittedly the OP's fault). She does not respect him now. She was working while the OP was depending on her(Did I mix up stories here?) and got tired of him. Right now, she does not care about the marriage. OP has shown her little progress(and also unemployed again). Since she is at least not actively pursuing OM and agreeing to not meet anyone for the time being, I think this is the time the OP has to work on the marriage. Her resentment isn't going to go away right now. If there is a chance to the marriage, the OP should hold back his anger and show her that he is committed to it(at least for 2 months). they could work on her part after OP has fixed his. The resentment/fog on her part will have subsided by then a little and they can discuss more reasonably. 

But his anger is ruining it for him. They can deal with the anger later. The anger here (on both sides) is ruining any chance of R. They should both hold back their words until the anger/resentment subside and until when they can actually analyse the situation on what needs to be done.


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## Wolfgar

warlock07 said:


> I think Seangar is doing it wrong here. He is in a lot of anger now. The wife now has built up a lot of resentment(admittedly the OP's fault). She does not respect him now. She was working while the OP was depending on her(Did I mix up stories here?) and got tired of him. Right now, she does not care about the marriage. OP has shown her little progress(and also unemployed again). Since she is at least not actively pursuing OM and agreeing to not meet anyone for the time being, I think this is the time the OP has to work on the marriage. Her resentment isn't going to go away right now. If there is a chance to the marriage, the OP should hold back his anger and show her that he is committed to it(at least for 2 months). they could work on her part after OP has fixed his. The resentment/fog on her part will have subsided by then a little and they can discuss more reasonably.
> 
> But his anger is ruining it for him. They can deal with the anger later. The anger here (on both sides) is ruining any chance of R. They should both hold back their words until the anger/resentment subside and until when they can actually analyse the situation on what needs to be done.


Thanks for your reply warlock and your different perspective. I pretty much agree with everything you have said, I desperately need to find a job...that would give me the power to be on my own and also show her that I'm stepping it up. But I think she is using this resentment excuse as a way of making her feel okay about what she has done and justifying it, I dont think its the real problem. She had no resentment 2 months ago...like I have said, she was perfectly fine with our situation (her working, me going to school), we were happy...but I def. didn't help out as much as I should have with the kids/house. Then we got dealt a tough blow by my student loan not being approved, and me not being able to take classes this semester (my last semester)...we were also depending on that money as well to help us get by as well. Right after this, it seems like she opened her self up to this guy and developed feelings for him. She hasn't owned up to this guy + working in that bar are the two main reasons for her sudden change in character and how she feels about me (in her eyes she reached a breaking point and the resentment built up). She's gone from being a loving and devoted mother/wife who thought she was lucky to have a guy like me, to being fine with being some married mans sex toy on the side? She's thrown all of her morals and values which made her a great person out the window. All of the excuses she has given me about why she no longer wants to be married (tired of carrying all the burden, we never have any fun, she can't be herself around me) are all things that are easily fixable with some effort. But she just doesn't want to fix them at this point. Last night she told me she doesn't even know if she believes in marriage anymore...this coming from a women who was madly in love with me and her top priority in live was her family just 2 months ago? 

I think all it would take is for this guy to come back into her bar and sweet talk her. Even though she know's its wrong and it won't go anywhere, she's weak right now, she still desires the fun they had together, she misses it. And from what I heard from her last night, it has been hard for her not to contact him, she's been tempted too. Two weeks ago she talked to this guy and told him that what they were doing is wrong, that they were both married and needed to stop and asked him not to come into her bar anymore while she was working. He told her that he understood and he would wouldn't anymore. Perhaps after 2 weeks of not talking to him and his lack of pursuing her, she's beginning to miss him and want him again? I do have gps on her phone, so I can see exactly where she is (she doesn't know that)...and I do believe that she's kept her word of not talking to him thus far. I just feel like its a matter of time before she caves in...and know that I realize she feels so strongly about him, it makes me feel differently about her. 

As for the reverse number look up, I have tried that on multiple sites and its just been a waste of money. All it tells me is that he has a verzion phone...


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## Almostrecovered

if it's verizon then it probably isn't a burner then, I guess it wouldnt hurt to call a few PI's and see what they charge for getting info from the number?


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## Wolfgar

Warlock-

I have been angry, it has come and gone. How do you suggest I treat her then while still living together and knowing she has no desire to work on things (although she has agreed to be faithful)? Should I just do my hardest to ignore my angry and how I'm feeling and treat her like I normally would? I think sweeping this under the rug and act like nothing happened is wrong, it's been making me look weak. She needs to realize she F'd up and what she's done is wrong on so many different levels...and it has consequences. I guess I just need to be a strong person, express to her that I'm not afraid to lose her, that I'm ashamed of her, I need to find a job, spend time with my kids, take care of the house...all while being in this limbo and living with her. 

I have considered going out tonight with some friends to let her know that I can act like a single person too, maybe even stay the night at one of their houses. Do you think this would be counter-productive and just cause her more resentment? Or maybe help her realize she's losing me (even though she doesn't seem to care that she's lost me)

and do you think I should txt this guy with what I said? Or should I call him. I feel like he needs to fear seeing my wife and understand there are consequences as well for being with another mans wife


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## Halien

Seangar said:


> and do you think I should txt this guy with what I said? Or should I call him. I feel like he needs to fear seeing my wife and understand there are consequences as well for being with another mans wife


You can call him without threatening, and still let him know that he is inviting alot of trouble by seeing your wife again. In your own words, let him know that you'll be a big part of his life if he continues. Everyone will know, including family, work.

I really feel for your job situation. So many of my friends have had to move away to find new employment. I wish you luck.


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## Wolfgar

anymore advice

My sister (who was best friends with my wife, but not is starting to dis like her very much so) had a txt conversation with my wife. In it my wife has basically said she's done supporting me, she's done waiting for me to change. She wants to move on in life My sister tried her best to open my wifes eyes, but obviously she's still in a fog and her talking to her did nothing.


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## Shaggy

Most times contacting the OM is pointless
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CH

Seangar said:


> anymore advice
> 
> My sister (who was best friends with my wife, but not is starting to dis like her very much so) had a txt conversation with my wife. In it my wife has basically said she's done supporting me, she's done waiting for me to change. She wants to move on in life My sister tried her best to open my wifes eyes, but obviously she's still in a fog and her talking to her did nothing.


Looks like it's time to plan and move on without her at this point.


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## Wolfgar

Do you guys think I should take my kids to my sisters for thanksgiving? Or stay here and let my wife make us dinner like she plans?


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## Chaparral

Shaggy said:


> Most times contacting the OM is pointless
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It wouldn't be pointless if I called him.


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## Shaggy

Seangar said:


> Do you guys think I should take my kids to my sisters for thanksgiving? Or stay here and let my wife make us dinner like she plans?


Stay home with your wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07

When ideally you should both start working together for the marriage to survive, the reality is different. Her resentment is holding her back while your anger is holding you back. She has given up. It is you that has any chance(no surety of R here) on salvaging the marriage. That would mean bearing the brunt of the negative emotions and pain for some time. If you ready for that, talk to her and tell her that you are ready to do that, carry the burden for quite some time and all she has to do during this time is to remain faithful and not close off all the doors. Do the 180 during this time. Seek to better yourself and your prospects. Get rid of the anger. It will wait for a different time. Give some time for the emotions to settle down and decide again if it is worth R. This also would give you time to find employment/get your life in order if things do go bad.

I also think the resentment was there before the 2 months but she did not have and outlet or opportunities. She discovered how happy she could have been and how much fun people of her age are having if it wasn't you that was holding her back. She regrets marrying so early I suppose and working in a bar just rubs it on your face I suppose.


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## intermilan1979

Your Story is my story..man, wow,,! I would like to talk to you personally or over the phone , I going through hell now.
I understand everything that you said.100%


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## Shaggy

As long as she is still working in the bar, every night there is a party you and beng married is keeping her from joining.

I think you need to change the game if you want to change the outcome, because on the current path she will be cheatng again soon, and you will be divorced. It will start as a separation while she figures out what she wants, followed shortly by a coworker or customer taking her out to help her have a break and feel better, followed by more cheating.

If you separate, you should just immediately file. It may be the last way to shock her into reality. But I highly recommend you refuse to separate, because in this case to her it will do nothing but juice her freedom to cheat.

I highly recommend you change things up another way. For instance can you find help with the kids, do you can go out with her? Can you get help wth the kid so you can pick her up each night like someone would do for their gf?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## intermilan1979

Listen, 

I love two women in my life 1st she cheated and left me , trust me it was hard for me for over a year because I didnt put more attention to the problems, I should it..but i didn't .. if she cheated is not because of you is beacuse of you both.. something was wrong already there.. you should call me because your story is also my story.. we have two kids now with my second wife ages 5 and 3 and I'm trying to safe our marriage.. is hard to image a day with out her , even after the problems that we had, we still slepping together, i put more attention to her.. you see I also see myself and look into the mirror, I did contribute to the problem , I should done so many things different but I dont excuse her. 
Im telling you fight for your family, show her that you care, dont bring the dirty laundry back, show her love , care and ensure that she knows that you are a change man and that you are willing to do everything for her, be strong , dont cry, cry alone in the shower like I do, dont push her away by asking over and over. Is hard to get it done, when Im with her is perfect but in bed my head and all the images of the affair cames out. 
I understand 100% what you say.. is hard my friend and also you still looking for job ..I admire you , you are a strong man, be strong and be yourself.. fight for her so she can remember you the good things and the good man that you were and not saying "ufff Im glad that I left him" , trust me I cry, I scream.. I can't eat or sleep but I have to be strong...Im not religios but the Bible says something strong about this:
"God, don’t let me feel arrogant when i succeed or hopeless when I fail, but remind me, always, that failure proceeds success." God teach me that forgiving is the highest level of strength and taking revenge is the first sign of weakness"
Dont listen to wrong advise if you want to kiss her and touch her is fine , just remember that you can't make somebody love you...Is easy to say but doing it..uffffff is very hard. 
Shoot me an email with your # or messanger so we can chat, sometimes comparing "notes" can help , I also understand your pain and I hate to talk to people that never been in your spot.
Good Luck to you my brothet, I read your first post and ikt was technically mine... Stay strong


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## Wolfgar

intermilan1979 said:


> Listen,
> 
> I love two women in my life 1st she cheated and left me , trust me it was hard for me for over a year because I didnt put more attention to the problems, I should it..but i didn't .. if she cheated is not because of you is beacuse of you both.. something was wrong already there.. you should call me because your story is also my story.. we have two kids now with my second wife ages 5 and 3 and I'm trying to safe our marriage.. is hard to image a day with out her , even after the problems that we had, we still slepping together, i put more attention to her.. you see I also see myself and look into the mirror, I did contribute to the problem , I should done so many things different but I dont excuse her.
> Im telling you fight for your family, show her that you care, dont bring the dirty laundry back, show her love , care and ensure that she knows that you are a change man and that you are willing to do everything for her, be strong , dont cry, cry alone in the shower like I do, dont push her away by asking over and over. Is hard to get it done, when Im with her is perfect but in bed my head and all the images of the affair cames out.
> I understand 100% what you say.. is hard my friend and also you still looking for job ..I admire you , you are a strong man, be strong and be yourself.. fight for her so she can remember you the good things and the good man that you were and not saying "ufff Im glad that I left him" , trust me I cry, I scream.. I can't eat or sleep but I have to be strong...Im not religios but the Bible says something strong about this:
> "God, don’t let me feel arrogant when i succeed or hopeless when I fail, but remind me, always, that failure proceeds success." God teach me that forgiving is the highest level of strength and taking revenge is the first sign of weakness"
> Dont listen to wrong advise if you want to kiss her and touch her is fine , just remember that you can't make somebody love you...Is easy to say but doing it..uffffff is very hard.
> Shoot me an email with your # or messanger so we can chat, sometimes comparing "notes" can help , I also understand your pain and I hate to talk to people that never been in your spot.
> Good Luck to you my brothet, I read your first post and ikt was technically mine... Stay strong


Thanks for your input, I sent you a message. I think I do have a lot to prove, not only to her but myself as well. Right now she doesn't believe I can change and doesn't think I can put what she did behind me. She's afraid to put her heart into it again and just have us revert back to how we were before, which I can understand. I think just being a strong man, not showing weakness and begging with her is key. The problem is, while I'm making this changes on my side, I want to be 100% sure she's going to be faithful (her not believing we have a future together is making that hard to do). I do have access to her phone, email, fb, and she has promised to be faithful. Today, I left her home to be alone on thanksgiving and took my boys to my sisters home. This upset her, she thought I was doing it to get back at her (I just wanted her to get a taste of what she was throwing away), and in return she went up to her bar to hang out, she's there now. She's responded to my txts and I just called her and she said she was visiting with a girl friend (who I heard in the background) and she'd be leaving soon. But I seem me being tough on her maybe just causing her to resent me more and pushing her further away. So I'm having trouble finding a middle ground, between being a nice respectable husband who's making an effort to fix things and change, but also one whos done taking her shiit and wants to show her he's not afraid to lose her. This bar is a HUGE problem though and the only way I can rid us of it, is to find a job so she can quit.


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## Wolfgar

Update: My wife got wasted last night at her bar...she kept texting me saying she's sorry for everything. I eventually had wake my 8 year old up to go pick her up, she was to drunk to drive home. It feels as if she's self destructing. 

Today I think I'm finally going to call the guy she had the affair with and try and get some answers. I'm going to give him an option, he can either be honest with me and answer my questions about the affair...or I'm going to have a long talk with his wife about what a slime ball husband she has (this would be a bluff as I have no way of contacting her right now). I'm going to let him know that my wife and I are trying to work on our marriage and before I can do that I need to know she's being honest with me about exactly what happened. I'm going to ask him how long its been going on, how many times they had sex (even though she says they didn't), what did they do exactly, how many dates did they go on, when is the last time they spoke and saw one another, and what she said to him when she broke it off. Then I'm going to tell him to not speak with her again and not go into her place of work anymore.

What do you guys think? Have any suggestions...


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## Yardman

Shaggy said:


> As long as she is still working in the bar, every night there is a party you and beng married is keeping her from joining.
> 
> I think you need to change the game if you want to change the outcome, because on the current path she will be cheatng again soon, and you will be divorced. It will start as a separation while she figures out what she wants, followed shortly by a coworker or customer taking her out to help her have a break and feel better, followed by more cheating.
> 
> If you separate, you should just immediately file. It may be the last way to shock her into reality. But I highly recommend you refuse to separate, because in this case to her it will do nothing but juice her freedom to cheat.
> 
> I highly recommend you change things up another way. For instance can you find help with the kids, do you can go out with her? Can you get help wth the kid so you can pick her up each night like someone would do for their gf?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:


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## Dadof3

Seangar said:


> Update: My wife got wasted last night at her bar...she kept texting me saying she's sorry for everything. I eventually had wake my 8 year old up to go pick her up, she was to drunk to drive home. It feels as if she's self destructing.
> 
> Today I think I'm finally going to call the guy she had the affair with and try and get some answers. I'm going to give him an option, he can either be honest with me and answer my questions about the affair...or I'm going to have a long talk with his wife about what a slime ball husband she has (this would be a bluff as I have no way of contacting her right now). I'm going to let him know that my wife and I are trying to work on our marriage and before I can do that I need to know she's being honest with me about exactly what happened. I'm going to ask him how long its been going on, how many times they had sex (even though she says they didn't), what did they do exactly, how many dates did they go on, when is the last time they spoke and saw one another, and what she said to him when she broke it off. Then I'm going to tell him to not speak with her again and not go into her place of work anymore.
> 
> What do you guys think? Have any suggestions...


While its definitely not the recommended approach, definitely can appreciate your willingness to take the bull by the horns. In a game of poker, you are "laying them out on the table". Keep in mind, there is nothing that could stop him from 1 - lying about the relationship; 2 - stop seeing your wife

In your situation, you don't have much to go on or resources to use to your advantage.

BTW - your wife was drunk off her butt at the bar? how do you know she was only at the bar? She called to say she was sorry about everything? Do you mean the fact that her and OM probably were doing stuff yesterday? You didn't have a lot to go on - recommend checking out her panties to make sure she didn't do something while you were at your sisters. 

Hate to be this crude about it, but again, you don't have much leverage right now in the relationship short of actual divorce and kicking her out.


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## Yardman

I doubt you'll find out much by calling the OM.

I'd show up at the bar randomly and see what is going on and make it known she is your wife. A better way of getting info would be to have someone she doesn't know do the observation instead of you.

I expected her to think that you taking the kids to your sisters was a form of punishment or a way to get back at her. Not suprised she went to her "Happy Place"/bar and got drunk. She probably pissed and moaned about what a jerk you are to anyone who would listen while seeking valadation of her former actions. Too bad there wasn't a VAR planted in her purse.

My wife briefly worked in a bar a few years ago, owned by the owners of the restaurant she worked part time at until recently. I could tell more of the story, but don't want to hijack your thread.


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## Wolfgar

-Yardman, feel free to message me if you want. 

I have gps on her phone, she doesn't know about it. I can basically see where she is at all times. She went down where she works (her bar is in a mall) to shop. When she got down there the mall was closed and wouldn't open until 9pm, she didn't realize this supposedly. So she went to her bar to eat and have a few drinks. She was there for 3 hours, and she immediately responded to my txts and would answer when I called. So I don't think she did anything wrong, atleast not with a guy. But she was putting herself in a bad situation, not sure if it was intentional or not. She's already admitted to me that she's been thinking about him and that she misses the fun they shared. She no longer has his phone number or a way of contacting him...s0 she goes up to the one place where she has a chance of running into that guy, she was alone and drinking...ready to make a bad decision. She justified this by saying he wouldn't come up there on thanksgiving, he'd be with his family (plus she had asked him to stop coming up there and he supposedly agreed).


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## Shaggy

If she's missing the fun she had with him, have you considered having some fun with her? Show up at the bar about an hour before closing and take her out afterward? Perhaps a make out session?

I'm torn here between you trying to R with her and showing her the door. What do you want?


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## Wolfgar

Shaggy said:


> If she's missing the fun she had with him, have you considered having some fun with her? Show up at the bar about an hour before closing and take her out afterward? Perhaps a make out session?
> 
> I'm torn here between you trying to R with her and showing her the door. What do you want?


I'd like to at least give our marriage a chance, I'd hate to just give up on our family and 10 year relationship. I love her, but she has deeply hurt me. Her still being stuck in that emotional fog and not wanting to be with me isn't helping any.


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## Shaggy

Seangar said:


> I'd like to at least give our marriage a chance, I'd hate to just give up on our family and 10 year relationship. I love her, but she has deeply hurt me. Her still being stuck in that emotional fog and not wanting to be with me isn't helping any.


Well then perhaps try being the exciting guy who picks her up. Treat her like the easy/cheap party girl she wants to be. Show up 1/2 hour before closing, tell her you're looking to hook up, and when she's done the two of you can go for a ride.


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## Wolfgar

Shaggy said:


> Well then perhaps try being the exciting guy who picks her up. Treat her like the easy/cheap party girl she wants to be. Show up 1/2 hour before closing, tell her you're looking to hook up, and when she's done the two of you can go for a ride.


That's similar to what I originally did when i first found out about her affair. I tried romancing her, took her out on dates, got a hotel for a night...basically trying to win her back. Although it didn't seem to work, we did have fun, but then eventually all those painful emotions and mental images came back, so i'd get pissed and keep bringing up what she did, trying to gain some kind of closure and understand how she could have did what she did (I realize this was the wrong time to do that after reading these forums). Me constantly talking about it pushed her further away and was making her hate living here together. I have since told her I'm done trying to wake her up and standing in her way of what she thinks will make her happy. In the past few days I have not brought up the affair or anything and I think things are improving. When I picked her up last night from her bar I could tell she was feeling like ****, she kept telling me..."you hate me don't you", "how much do you hate me"? I told her "I dont hate you, I'm just deeply hurt and disappointed in you....I still love you very much"


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## the guy

S-
There is a trick to all of this. There is competing, and there is making your self more attractive.
I have a sence that you are so worked up in competing that you have lost your self. What I mean is you must find what works for you...not for her. It is her job to decide what works for her, it is your job to find what works for you. Not competing with someone or something that is not winable.

She can except it and stay with you or she can move on. But you are doing things for her, when you need to do thing for your self. There by fnding a women that wants to be with the real you, not someone they think you are or want you to be.

Attracting women on what you think they want is lying to your self, but when you do things for your self and women are attract to *that* well thats you being true to your self and that is real.

Being real is what you need to look at, making your self out to be someone your not(competing) is wrong. It is up to the women that we have relations with to make the choice to be with us for this reason ...or soon they will see what they thought we were and are infact someone completely differant.

Stop competing.

Start being confident in what you want to be and allow a women that will except you for who you are.

It will be up to your wife to make the healthy choice to stay or except the consequence of lossing you.


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## Yardman

I'll send you a pm or start a thread in the private area about my experiences with my wife working in a bar. Long story run vey short, there were huge red flags, looking back I could have reacted better. She quit the job. It wasn't a regular bar, but one set uo in a hotel after the freebie food was gone. What a nightmare that was....

The tips were poor, I occasionally wonder what would have happened if the tips were primo... LOL

Any luck on the job hunt????


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## Shaggy

Seangar said:


> That's similar to what I originally did when i first found out about her affair. I tried romancing her, took her out on dates, got a hotel for a night...basically trying to win her back. Although it didn't seem to work, we did have fun, but then eventually all those painful emotions and mental images came back, so i'd get pissed and keep bringing up what she did, trying to gain some kind of closure and understand how she could have did what she did (I realize this was the wrong time to do that after reading these forums). Me constantly talking about it pushed her further away and was making her hate living here together. I have since told her I'm done trying to wake her up and standing in her way of what she thinks will make her happy. In the past few days I have not brought up the affair or anything and I think things are improving. When I picked her up last night from her bar I could tell she was feeling like ****, she kept telling me..."you hate me don't you", "how much do you hate me"? I told her "I dont hate you, I'm just deeply hurt and disappointed in you....I still love you very much"


I'm not suggesting competing. I'm purely suggesting that if she wants a guy to just use her like a tramp, then you might was well be that guy. Just meet up with her, put no effort in, and just use her. 

It appears that she just wants a guy to use her and not actually love or cherish her. 

Don't try to win her back - she's decided to leave and be a tramp. So you might was well just use her, instead of letting some stranger get use out of your wife.

It's kind of a modified plan B. Let her see what it's like to be the local pathetic bar tramp.


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## Yardman

Shaggy, 
Lets say she role plays that way and he gets sex from his "bar rag". 
How will that improve things?

Sean, focus on finding a job.
Take up the household tasks. They are not as monumentous as your wife would have you percieve them to be.

Do something in regards to your body. If you can't afford a gym memebership, and have no time... Do pushups and situps while you are at home. Everytime your mind wanders towards her infidelity... work out....punch a couch or pillow

Treat your kids like gold, cuz they are. Make time for them and you, offer that time to wife, but don't expect her to be enthused or participate.

Man up and focus on you and the kids.


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## the guy

Shag-
He loves his wife, I did exactly what you suggest and it got me no were. What I'm talking about is healthier behaviors. Not only for him self but the *oppertunity* that his current wife come along for the ride in his "self changing" work.
Sometimes its time to reinvent your self. A change that works for you not for the women you think you want to keep around.

It's a confidence that changes you as a man. I personally love my bar tramp and thats just how I'm wired. But its on my terms and the relationship I want to have.

I agree, if there is any winning to be done it should be on his wifes part, I'm just suggesting that when he walks away, he's not walking away from something , but walking towards something.....a life style that is healthier and protuctive. 

Walking away from a women knowing your better then what she wants you to be and walking away knowing it will only be a matter of time when she comes crawling back and being prepared for the emotional mind f*ck that is about to come.

Its all about letting them go and watching them make the healthy /unhealthy choices that makes one decide to take them back. 

Just letting them go will only clarify the disicion that we make as the betrayed. It is up to them to scew up more and push us away, or do the things as individuakls to change into better human beings and have any chance of having a better live with us....


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## Shaggy

It does distract her from forming more and deeper relationships with OM at the bar. He essentially fills the role of OM in her life. So my suggestion isn't entirely mad.

The bottom line is that she is going to one way or another find POSOM to be with at the bar as long as she works there. He might as well take the place of them while he can, that way there are fewer of them to get rid of.


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## the guy

Point taken, just like in my case S- wife doesn't have the boundries.
Quiting her job is cheaper then a divorce. 
S- you can not compete, yes the marriage has a small role, but she was a different person before she started working there. She may be that person you once fell in love with if she leaves the bar.

I would rather eat mac & cheese for dinner then deal with this crap. Is she willing to do the same?

She is a sinking ship, do not go down with her if she continues.

I hope she sees that growing old with you is a hell of alot better then growing old as a single bartender!


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## F-102

Try showing up at the bar, and start hitting on the women there-see how she likes that.

And for what it's worth, I don't know of many bars that are going to keep an employee that gets trashed at the bar they work at.


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## Yardman

F-102 said:


> Try showing up at the bar, and start hitting on the women there-see how she likes that.
> 
> And for what it's worth, I don't know of many bars that are going to keep an employee that gets trashed at the bar they work at.


Thats kinda what I did...it worked. I showed up on her nights off and hit on the female bartender working there that was my wife's new party friend.

Yes, an employee getting trashed at the bar they work at is not looked upon nicely. Especially one in a mall, at a dive..well, possibly. If she keeps up that behavior, she may not have to quit. She will be fired.


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## Shaggy

F-102 said:


> Try showing up at the bar, and start hitting on the women there-see how she likes that.


Oh, that's beautiful. The real nice part too, is he would be using the money she was making at her job there to hire the babysitter, buy his food and drinks, and to buy the other women drinks!!!

He might even be able to use her employee discount on the drinks for the other women.

She would be financing the whole thing. So beautiful.


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## Wolfgar

haha I like what I'm hearing out of you guys. I tried the "treating her like a tramp" thing. I told her I was done with her and I was done trying and I was done standing in her way, but I still expected her to be faithful while we're living together. Wednesday night when I went out with some friends to a bar. She had been sleeping on the couch the past two nights, when I got home I was tipsy and she was in our bed sleeping. I asked her to please go sleep on the couch. Once I laid in bed I realized, hey I want some ass. So I followed her down stairs to her couch, without saying a word to her I just had sex with her. After I was done, I said good night...went up stairs to our bed and went to sleep. Next day I took my kids to my sisters for thanksgiving without her, she felt like shiit...went down to her bar to "shop" and got wasted and I had to pick her up. That's the night she was telling me how sorry she was and being affectionate with me (without me initiating it). 

After all that good progress, I caved in last night/this morning. She came home from work, we hung out for a little while then went up to our bed and laid down (she asked me if she could sleep in our bed). While in bed, we started talking about things...bad move. I guess the past few days I thought her feelings were starting to change and she was waking up. After talking to her I realized this wasn't the case, she was still being cold hearted, telling me something has changed inside her and she just doesn't want to be with me anymore. I asked her if she'd want to go on a vacation together, she said no...I wouldn't want to go on a vacation with you. After that I basically just had enough and snapped. I yelled at her and told her to go back down onto the couch. I grabbed our lamp and threw it against the wall. After a few minutes of laying in bed the rage just continued to build, I went down stairs and screamed at her, she laid there and cried with a look of fear in her eyes. I said things like, "how can you just turn your feelings off for me! One minute your sorry and you love me, the next your back to being this cold hearted biiitch who doesn't give a shiiit about me! Wake up, look at what you're doing! You're throwing everything away for nothing! BLAH BLAH BLAH" This went on for a few minutes, then I went back up stairs and passed out. In the morning before she left for work I got up to get something to drink, I saw her laying on the couch and I started to regret how I had acted the night before. I woke her up and took her up stairs to our bed and we laid down together. I apologized for exploding...she told me she was scared of me, I promised her that I'd never hurt her. That she can't understand the pain she's putting me through and that her repressing her feelings for me, acting like I mean nothing to her, is very upsetting. She told me she cares about me, but how can she love me when she feels this way for another man? Something she said she never thought was possible? I told her that this man fulfilled certain needs she had, that I was not. And what she felt for him wasn't real and she would realize that in time. Anyhow, turning into a massive pu**y I gave her a body massage before she went to work. I asked her if she'd like me to come up there later tonight and take her on a date after work. She said no, she doesn't want to go on a date with me right now (she also brought clothes with her, just in case she goes out with her girl friends). She told me, "I thought you said you were done trying"? I said, "well I still love you and I'd like to have fun with you, but ya I've given up on the hope of you changing and us being together". Now I feel as if I'm coming off as way to needy and suffocating her with attention.

I'm a complete mess, I feel like I took 2 steps forward and 10 steps backwards. We talked a little before she went to work, I told her if we're still going to be living together and we're still married, then we should treat each as such. I asked her, why don't we just act like we first met each other, get to know one another again, go out on dates and have fun. She said, I don't think that's possible, we've been together for 10 years, I can't just ignore everything we've gone through (speaking about the resentment). I said, "well we should at least try". I asked her to think about her feelings for me and how she's locked them away...and that she shouldn't be afraid to let them out (she's even said maybe this is her defense mechanism, not letting me back into her heart)

Now she's off to work, guess we'll see what happens tonight. Not really sure how I need to proceed. 



Shaggy said:


> It does distract her from forming more and deeper relationships with OM at the bar. He essentially fills the role of OM in her life. So my suggestion isn't entirely mad.
> 
> The bottom line is that she is going to one way or another find POSOM to be with at the bar as long as she works there. He might as well take the place of them while he can, that way there are fewer of them to get rid of.


I think her relationship with the OM has to do with him being something different and someone that's new, him giving her something that I was not. He's shown her excitement she hasn't had in years, its like a drug for her. She doesn't want to be treated like a tramp, she doesn't want to be his tramp. She wants to have fun and have the freedom to experience new things/people I suppose.

Here's a piece of an article that I believe explains my situation perfectly...

"The only reason you’re faced with a cheating wife right now is because your wife has a set of needs that you were not able to fulfill. 

But that’s okay because SHE did not communicate them to you in the first place…so you had no way of knowing what you were doing wrong!"

I thought we were happy for the most part, I knew that I was ignoring some of her needs but I guess I never cared because she never expressed to me that it was bothering her. I guess we both just got complacent. It doesn't help that working where she does...she's constantly faced with men who want nothing more then to fulfill her needs (at least temporarily). This isn't an excuse for what she's done, she F'd up big time. I feel that if she would have came to me in the beginning and just let me know how she was feeling...I would have easily stepped up and made an effort to fulfill those needs. Instead she held it inside and by the time I found out it was to late...she had already made up her mind that she didn't want to be with me and she was going to pursue this relationship with another man.


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## lordmayhem

I have to say...that was a spectacular fail. Talking about the relationship, apologizing, losing temper....body massages (WTF?), etc, etc.










I'm sorry, but you lost a lot of credibility with her, I mean a lot. Now she thinks that you'll just be pissed off for a bit then calm down and back to normal. I'm sure she doesn't believe that you'll be upset for long, because I wouldn't. And that you will get over this in a few weeks or a few months and it will be neatly swept under the rug.

You've made it that much harder for yourself to draw any boundaries and doing a hard 180 will only be seen as temporary pouting by you.

The only thing you can do now is get on the 180 and stay on it. Try taking it in baby steps. Stop engaging her. Try for 2 days, then when you complete that, go for 4 days, and so on. Get back on that 180 horse because you have a lot of credibility to rebuild.


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## Shaggy

She is still seeing hm btw. That's why she's acting hot and cold. She likely has a date tonight after work. 

If I were you I woud show up an see who she heads out wth from work and where they go. Ths is why you need to find the OM and expose it, because it's still going on.

So is she going to diviorce you!? Because right now she is telling you that he doesn't want to be involved with you. She doesn't want to even go out with you. Yet here you are giving her massages.

Seriously please consider arranging to see who she is going on the date with tonight. It might be your best chance at finding the OM. You can find hs license plate number possibly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wolfgar

-lord
You're right, it was an extreme fail and thanks for the advice.

-shag
I really don't think she's seeing him, I feel like she's been brutally honest with me. She told me every detail of what they did. She told me she still thinks about him and misses the time they shared. She know's nothing can come of their relationship and she doesn't want to be his girl on the side. Plus, I took her 2nd phone (the one she was talking to him on), and have kept an eye on her other phone (call/txt records)...and I have gps on that phone. So far nothing suspicious. 

I am debating going up to her work later though (it sucks because its a 45 min drive). You don't think me going up there would make me look even more clingy, even after she's already told me she doesn't want me to come up there. Or should I just sit in the parking lot and wait for her to leave? And lets say my worst fears become a reality and she walks out with this guy. What do I do then? Odds are i'd be enraged and attack him.


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## Eli-Zor

> because its a 45 min drive


Is your marriage not worth it?



> Plus, I took her 2nd phone


Waywards are a lot smarter than you give credit for.



> And lets say my worst fears become a reality and she walks out with this guy. What do I do then? Odds are i'd be enraged and attack him.


OM are cowards that why they hide the affair away, scare him and her sh*%$%ss.


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## Ello1012

Hey guy, in all reality I think she's being tormented with the guilt of what she did..you can have mercy on her, but believe me, if she would be more happier with you getting a divorce and being with a woman who cares more about you...I think she be more happy for you and your new wife...she maybe just been tormented every single time she see's you. When you're not around she doesnt feel as guilty anymore cause she knows she made a mistake..will she continue down the wrong way, I can't answer for her, but you being patient and merciful is a very good sign sir. if it's better for the family to leave, then leave, and don't expect her to get anything from you with a divorce settlement, not unless you choose to elave her something, i think psychologicaly she already knows she's not good enough for you for her betrayal. I like a gentleman like yourself, but in honesty, if she's more happy without you in the picture, you may be more happy with out her in the picture too. Peace!Lol;!) (Again just my opinion.peacE!lol!


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## Wolfgar

You guys think I should stake out the parking lot of her bar and see what she does after work?


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## Yardman

Seangar said:


> You guys think I should stake out the parking lot of her bar and see what she does after work?


Yes, or have someone else do it. You said she took a change of clothes for after work activities.


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## Shaggy

Seangar said:


> You guys think I should stake out the parking lot of her bar and see what she does after work?


Yes. 

I think you should also write down the car and license which takes her away, and I think you should follow to see where she goes.

There could be a second guy you don't know about.

Look, it just seems odd that she is so connected with a guy who chatted her up, took her out a couple of times, and had sex with her. He used her, yet she is still hung up on him? There is more here than a bored wife getting a taste of freedom. I still think she is meeting up with him some how. The fact that she already had a burner phone shows it was a well planned and executed affair.


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## Wolfgar

Just called the guy. It honestly made me feel quite a bit better after talking to him. I basically told him my wife and I were going to work on things, but before I could do that I needed to know she was telling me the truth about everything. So I told him that I was giving him an option, he can either be honest with me and answer my questions...or I was going to have a long talk with his wife about what a pos husband she has. He said okay and answered my questions. I asked him how many times did you have sex? He said zero, we never got to that point. Everything he said went along with what my wife has told me. So either they went over each and every point of the story and they are both lying or she has been honest with me. I told him if I find out he's still trying to talk to her or going up to her work, that I was going to go out of my way to make his life hell. 

So after talking to him + my gps... I've established that more then likely she has been honest with me thus far (still going up to her work tonight). Now I have to work on is being strong and reminding her of why she fell in love with me...and stop being needy, stop accusing her of lying, stop bringing **** up about this guy (her telling me that something inside her has changed and that she just doesn't want to be with me anymore is the worst of all). Hopefully if I do things on my end, with time she'll snap out of this and turn back into the wife I used to know and love.


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## Eli-Zor

Seangar said:


> Just called the guy. It honestly made me feel quite a bit better after talking to him. I basically told him my wife and I were going to work on things, but before I could do that I needed to know she was telling me the truth about everything. So I told him that I was giving him an option, he can either be honest with me and answer my questions...or I was going to have a long talk with his wife about what a pos husband she has. He said okay and answered my questions. I asked him how many times did you have sex? He said zero, we never got to that point. Everything he said went along with what my wife has told me. So either they went over each and every point of the story and they are both lying or she has been honest with me. I told him if I find out he's still trying to talk to her or going up to her work, that I was going to go out of my way to make his life hell.
> 
> So after talking to him + my gps... I've established that more then likely she has been honest with me thus far (still going up to her work tonight). Now I have to work on is being strong and reminding her of why she fell in love with me...and stop being needy, stop accusing her of lying, stop bringing **** up about this guy (her telling me that something inside her has changed and that she just doesn't want to be with me anymore is the worst of all). Hopefully if I do things on my end, with time she'll snap out of this and turn back into the wife I used to know and love.



It still does not answer the hidden phone. That's is not a spontaneous decision but a planned action.

You can only for now assume you have the truth or at least part of it . A big part of the R is for you to have a decent job and for her to get out of her current place of work. You should have similar working hours and be together at home for family time
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wolfgar

Eli-Zor said:


> It still does not answer the hidden phone. That's is not a spontaneous decision but a planned action.
> 
> You can only for now assume you have the truth or at least part of it . A big part of the R is for you to have a decent job and for her to get out of her current place of work. You should have similar working hours and be together at home for family time
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Couldn't agree more.

1. I need a job
2. She needs to quit her job

The 2nd phone she used to talk to him was an emergency phone we had laying around...I have the phone now, actually its the phone I called the slime ball on.


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## Shaggy

Can you look at her phone calls from tonight? Did he contact her right after your call?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wolfgar

Shaggy said:


> Can you look at her phone calls from tonight? Did he contact her right after your call?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nope, only calls she had were from her mom...he did not contact her (I think me exposing him to his wife will be enough for him to knock it off).

From the beginning she said she was feeling this way before this guy was even in the picture. That her affair with him was a bi product of her changing feelings towards me (before all of this the thought of being sexual with another man would have disgusted her). I think because she enjoyed her relationship so much with this man it has left her confused and asking her self...well how can I love my husband when I feel like this for another man?


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## morituri

Seangar said:


> From the beginning she said she was feeling this way before this guy was even in the picture. That her affair with him was a bi product of her changing feelings towards me (before all of this the thought of being sexual with another man would have disgusted her). I think because she enjoyed her relationship so much with this man it has left her confused and asking her self...well how can I love my husband when I feel like this for another man?


Her affair was nothing more than an escape from the stresses of every day reality. The OM was a representation of freedom from that reality. That is what affairs are to begin with and that is why the vast majority usually have a very short shelf life.

What your wife fails to realize is that unless a woman is coming out of a loveless or emotionally/physically abusive marriage, that the stresses of every day reality are going to be much worse for her as a divorced single mother of two. This is not to say that she can't find and marry another man, but unless she first addresses and resolves her inability to cope with the stresses of every day life, she's unlikely to have a happy and fulfilling second marriage and more likely to repeat the bad choice (affair) she made in her first marriage. Just a thought.


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## Wolfgar

morituri said:


> Her affair was nothing more than an escape from the stresses of every day reality. The OM was a representation of freedom from that reality. That is what affairs are to begin with and that is why the vast majority usually have a very short shelf life.
> 
> What your wife fails to realize is that unless a woman is coming out of a loveless or emotionally/physically abusive marriage, that the stresses of every day reality are going to be much worse for her as a divorced single mother of two. This is not to say that she can't find and marry another man, but unless she first addresses and resolves her inability to cope with the stresses of every day life, she's unlikely to have a happy and fulfilling second marriage and more likely to repeat the bad choice (affair) she made in her first marriage. Just a thought.


Words of wisdom, thank you. That's the problem right now, she doesn't realize the consequences of what she's doing. She just "doesn't want to be with me anymore". She's throwing away a man whos loved her and been there for her for 10 years, throwing away our family together, throwing away my family (they are all in shock about whats she's doing right now), she's throwing away everything. 

I believe that she's so addicted to the feelings this fantasy have given her, shes using whatever reasons she can to justify her actions. She's thinking of all the negative parts of our marriage (resentment) and totally forgetting all the great moments we have shared. Because of the excitement and fun she's had with this fantasy, shes closed herself off to me and repressing her feelings...b/c she wants the fantasy to continue. (I think perhaps me finding out about the affair pretty much immediately, before it could go to far has perhaps made her wonder about what could have happened. ALmost like she hasnt had her fill yet).


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## morituri

She knows that you want to reconcile and thus feels no threat about the what a life after divorce will entail. That is why you should consider starting a plan to divorce her and informing her of your intentions to carry it out. If she sees that you are serious about divorce, she MAY stop and pause about what her life will be without you. It could be what is needed to help her come out of the fog. And even if it doesn't, you will avoid getting blindsided by a filing of divorce from her.


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## Sindo

morituri said:


> She knows that you want to reconcile and thus feels no threat about the what a life after divorce will entail. That is why you should consider starting a plan to divorce her and informing her of your intentions to carry it out. If she sees that you are serious about divorce, she MAY stop and pause about what her life will be without you. It could be what is needed to help her come out of the fog. And even if it doesn't, you will avoid getting blindsided by a filing of divorce from her.


:iagree:

One thing I'd like to point out, though. She's going to see divorce as an empty threat if you don't have a job. 

Finding a job needs to be your #1 priority. Apply for everything you can, and I mean everything. Your new full time job, for now, is finding a new job.

The harsh reality is in today's economy, jobs aren't as easy to come by. You need to go the extra mile.


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## morituri

Actually, him not having a job may put her in the unenviable position of having to pay him alimony. That is something he should find out about with a divorce attorney.


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## Sindo

True, but she is completely supporting him financially anyway. And she resents him for being dependent on her. She does not need to be reminded of that.


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## morituri

Sindo said:


> True, but she is completely supporting him financially anyway. And she resents him for being dependent on her. She does not need to be reminded of that.


But the point is that she wants out of the marriage. She has stated that to him in very clear terms. So if she wants to end the marriage then she should be ready for all the possible consequences, which may include being ordered to pay him alimony and possible child support - if he is deemed to be the primary caregiver of their children.

The OP's wife is filled with the belief that her life will be so much better without her husband. That may be IF the OP is someone who doesn't help her out with the kids and the housework. But chances are good that his absence will put a severe strain on her mentally and physically. Just ask divorced parents with kids if life is more challenging without a spouse to help her/him out. The odds are that more than half of them will answer you with an affirmative response.


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## Wolfgar

Well I think for the holidays my plans are to just ride it out and see if she wakes up. Get a job asap(I'm determined to find one this week), be the best father I can, take care of the house, take care of myself, stop talking to her about our relationship and her affair and stop taking her on dates. She's been sleeping in our bed again and I have let her thus far. (I thought about the divorce papers thing, and I think first I need to find a job and become a better person, then I'll give her the papers. I think this would make her realize that she's giving up on a man that loves her and has gotten his shiiit together)

I understand that I must take care of myself and be an "alpha male", but how do I treat her in the mean time? I guess that's what I'm confused about.


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## morituri

Click on the link below my signature titled 'No More Mr Nice Guy' to download and print a free copy of the ebook by Dr Robert Glover PhD. Also click on the link titled 'Married Man's Sex Life' which will take you to Athol Kay great website filled with dozens of good, informative articles on improving yourself.

A bit of a warning. Don't try to improve for your wife's sake for it is bound to fail. Do the improvements for yourself knowing that no matter what happens to the marriage, you will become a much better and happier man. Your wife's loss will be another woman's gain.


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## Wolfgar

Thanks Morituri. I am changing for myself, I have realized what I did wrong in the relationship with my wife...and as much as I'd like to take it all back, I cant. I can only change things going forward. My wife constantly has said to me, why are you changing now...why couldn't you have done it before things go so bad...and the truth is I didn't realize they were so bad (she should have communicated this to me), I felt like I was asleep. I thought we were happy for the most part . But since this has all happened I've been able to reflect on everything and how I became far to complacent and quit appreciating her, I only tried to change and fix things after it was to late. I'm not sure what's going to happen between her and I, when I think about her betrayal it still causes me a TON of anger...I'm not even sure I could forgive her for it. But I'm at least trying, for loves sake, for my childrens sake. And her lack of even being willing to giving our marriage and family that ONE chance is beginning to make me more angry and resentful.


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## morituri

A good response to her asking you about the changes in you would be 

_'You may not want me anymore, and I've accepted that, but I'm certain that the next woman in my life will appreciate me for the changes that I've begun in myself today'_. 

Which is very true.


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## Wolfgar

I think I just caught my wife in a lie. I have been monitoring her GPS, she's been out of work since 6pm....I called her twice, once at 7pm and 9pm, no answer. She just finally texted me telling me, "on my way, sorry". So I'm going to play along, ask her why they made her work so late. If she lies to me and confirms says she was working...what do you guys recommend I do (hopefully she was shopping or something and I'm just being insecure).

If she's lying I'll probably ask her to get her things and leave. I'm done.


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## morituri

I would agree with you in asking about why they kept her working late or in asking her to leave if you catch her lying but since there doesn't seem to be a reconciliation effort on her part and she has stated that she wants to divorce you, why the big drama about whether she was shopping or meeting up with OM? Let her go and do what you must to make the transition from married to divorce easier on you and your kids.


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## Wolfgar

She agreed to be a "good wife" and to be honest and faithful to me while we're still technically married and living together...thats why it's "big" drama


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## morituri

I see. Nevertheless, I still maintain the opinion that you should let her go. Your choice though.


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## ShootMePlz!

Did you call her office phone to check her being there??


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## Shaggy

Where did the gps say she was?

First a gno yesterday and now tonight. I still say she is hooking up with someone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Yardman

Yeah, where did the gps say she was?


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## Wolfgar

Well, I guess that's it...it's over. I gave her the chance to be honest with me. She acted like she was at work, I told her I called her work and they said she got out at 6. She said "ya, I went out to dinner and had a drink by myself". She could see the rage building on my face, I said I'm going to give you one last chance to be honest with me. She finally admitted that he came up to her work and they went out to eat afterwards. She said they didn't do anything sexual, other then a kiss on the cheek. I told her to get her things together and get out. On her way out I told her I would have given her the world if she had only let me. I gave her a hug, she started crying, I said "I hope he makes you happy". She left


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## Shaggy

Find asshat and expose to his wife. He needs to feel the love.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri

So what is your game plan?


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## Yardman

That stinks, but at least you know whats going on. If this guy is married, his wife should know whats going on too.


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## Yardman

She may be running off to meet with POSOM. Can you still track her with the GPS?


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## Wolfgar

Yea, I plan on going out of my way to exposing him to his wife. Only way I can do this is by using her GPS, find them when they are hanging out...follow him home or get his license plate number. 

My plain as of now is to cut off contact with her, get a job, move on. If she snaps out of it, I'd give our marriage a chance...if not I'm prepared to move on. Who wants to be married to a lying *****?


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## Shaggy

Tonight may be one of your best changes to gnd him. See where the gps leads you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Yardman

Shaggy said:


> Tonight may be one of your best changes to gnd him. See where the gps leads you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:


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## Yardman

Other than the fact your wife told you POSOM is married, do you have any other evidence that supports it?


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## Wolfgar

He's back at home with his wife and family now...so I doubt she'll be running back to him. But she's been pretty detailed in explaining him to me, she told me his kids car seats were in the back of his car while they messed around. I'll be monitoring her gps tonight though, sadly I'd have to take my kids with me (I dont really want to cause them any emotional trauma, my 8 year old was awake in bed and just heard all of this).

Thanks again everyone on here for opening my eyes and for all the support. You have no idea how much you all have helped and how much I appreciate it. Thank you all!


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## Shaggy

She will get a hotel and ask him to come over. He will. Tell his wife a friend as a car problem.

Get a friend to stay with the kids. Blow her cheating partner out of the water.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri

Have you exposed the affair to her parents? They need to know that their daughter has been cheating with a married man she met at work, destroying not only her marriage but her family as well.


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## Wolfgar

Yes I have exposed the affair to both her parents.
My GPS is showing me that she is at a best western, I'm considering going up there. But I think it's a slim chance he would be there, I dont think she has another phone or way of contacting him other then the bar.

It's kind of scary how nothing I have said to her has had any impact. Exposing her affair to both my family or hers. Her infatuation with this guy has become too strong, she's welling to give up everything for the feelings she gets when with him, even though she knows he's married and she has no chance at a real relationship with him.


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## avenrandom

Seangar said:


> It's kind of scary how nothing I have said to her has had any impact.


Remember those words when she gives you glimmers of hope again. There is no quick fix for this... we don't want anymore (double) facepalm situations.


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## Wolfgar

Just drove up to the best western, expecting to beat some ass. She was sleeping in the back seat of her car Before I made her leave tonight I took all of the cash she made over the weekend and I told her I was going to pay rent with it, I said "is that okay with you"? She said "yes". So now she has no money, I have all the banking cards and its all in my name. I'll admit, it's hard as hell letting her go...knowing that she'll just run back into the arms of this guy...and that their relationship will become greater now that she has her freedom. I'm hoping tonight will slap some sense into her, but I fear she is to far gone


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## PBear

Let her new reality hit here. Do not weaken or lower your boundaries. If you do, she'll see the weakness and lose respect for you. If you're at all interested in reconciling, write down your conditions, and make sure they're addressed. part of it could be his full contact info, as she has to demonstrate that you and your feelings are more important to her than his are.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy

The best impact you have right now is to find the OMW and expose it to her.
There is a chance that the OM will throw your W under the bus to keep his wife. There by making it pretty inconvienent for your W to continue the affair. In addition the OMW will also help make the affair difficult to continue by keeping a closer eye on OM.


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## Wolfgar

Thats why I went to the hotel tonight, hoping to find him there. Really the only chance I have of exposing him to his wife is either, going up to her bar while he's there (long shot and I'll look like a creepy stalker in her eyes), or I use my gps and find them when they are on a date (which would take the powers of a jedi for me to not get out of the car and beat him with a baseball bat). I could also hire a private investigator to run a search on his cell phone number, perhaps I'll call around tomorrow. I did an intellus search for him, and I found a guy that could be him...matches his name and age...but has about 8 different addresses, so perhaps I will drive to each one and look for his car (she told me he drove a new white colored buick). 

I do need to stay strong and make boundaries (does anyone have any advice on this?). I'm finally in a position of power over here and I need to use it.


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## Almostrecovered

have you tried calling a few PI's to see what they charge to investigate a phone number?


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## Shaggy

So don't beat him or confront him - that will get you a restraining order against you.

However, exposing to his wife will certainly get him a different kind of beating and a far far more effective one.


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## Wolfgar

Almostrecovered said:


> have you tried calling a few PI's to see what they charge to investigate a phone number?


Yea I have, but they say it's usually hit or miss. One of them ran it for me on his database and got the same information phone detective gave me....just the location and the carrier. I typed him in on intellius, and got a hit on someone matching his age/name...they have about 8 addresses listed. I suppose I could drive to each one of them and look for his white buick (my wife could be lying about that). Otherwise, my only alternative is to use the gps on my wife's phone to follow her when she's meeting up with him.

Honestly though, I'm beginning to feel this is pointless. Outside of the satisfaction I would get from exposing this pos to his wife, what would be the point? My wife's already told me she doesn't want to be with me anymore and that she doesn't feel the same way for me anymore (probably b/c of how she feels for him and b/c she wants to be single). If she want's to be some married man's girl on the side...then why should I want to even want to be with a person like that (even if she is in an emotional fog)? The fact that I feel as if she's had a sort of life crisis and this isn't isn't really her, is the ONLY reason I'd be willing to work things out and forgive her and move on. Sadly, I'm not sure she'll snap out of this anytime soon. I guess I'll find out in the next few days when she has no money and no longer has her family.

Also, I realize her infatuation with this guy is causing a lot the problems and keeping her from "waking up" (not to mention making me feel worthless after loving her and being faithful for 10 years). Contacting his wife and getting him to stop pursuing mine would be the best way to end this. So I suppose I will try, for the sake of lour once amazing ove and our children.


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## Almostrecovered

even if it does nothing you are doing a great service for his wife


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## F-102

You say you've already talked to this guy? Ten-to-one, he has already warned his W about the "psycho that's trying to blackmail me".


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## ArmyofJuan

Seangar said:


> It's kind of scary how nothing I have said to her has had any impact. Exposing her affair to both my family or hers. Her infatuation with this guy has become too strong, she's welling to give up everything for the feelings she gets when with him, even though she knows he's married and she has no chance at a real relationship with him.


Affairs are very much like drug addictions and when you are in the middle of one all rational thought takes a back seat. The good news is that it will eventually wear off, the bad news is it won't be anytime soon.

I found the best way to try to nullify the "high" effects from an affair is by countering it will high anxiety. You slap them in the face with reality (exposing to the other BS, file for divorce, kick them out) and once the shock wears off then they start to think again. 

My FWW moved in with the OM which was someone everyone knew was a poor match and wouldn't last 6 months with. It only lasted 4 months but it took that long for her to see the reality everyone else was trying to explain to her. At the time she thought she was in "love" with him, today she hates his guts and thinks he is the Devil.


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## Wolfgar

F-102 said:


> You say you've already talked to this guy? Ten-to-one, he has already warned his W about the "psycho that's trying to blackmail me".


Yea I was thinking the same thing, I think if I found her and I needed real evidence I could call my wife and she would admit to the affair over the phone to his wife. She know's what she's doing is wrong but she's to weak to say no. She doesn't like having feelings for a married man, but she can't help it. I love how after talking to the guy, calmly I might add, asking him to stay away from her work and not contact her...the first F'ING thing he does is go up to her work the next day and take her on a date. So trust me, I'd love to pay him back. 

Army- Yea divorce papers are my next step, maybe i'll look into that today. She has zero chance of having a relationship with this man, so I'm hoping she'll snap out of it a bit sooner. But I'm sure her job and all of her single bartending 20 year old girlfriends will probably be there to support her and keep her on this self destructing path.


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## Shaggy

Seangar, her current state of mind seems very focused on him - exposing to his wife and getting him to throw your WW under the bus might help knock sense into her.

Right now he is free and clear to engage her at will and to continue to feed her hope that they can be together - even if that isn't really possible.

Bringing it home for him, removes him.


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## Wolfgar

How should I act/treat her when she comes back to the house? What should I say to her, if anything at all?


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## morituri

I think you blew up your best opportunity to locate this guy the minute you let your wife know that you were on to her. Now she's probably told him that you are tracking her whereabouts and he's going to take extra precautions to make himself even harder to locate.

I would suggest that you follow ArmyOfJuan's advice and file for divorce, and seek temporary custody of the kids. The latter may be the most painful because it means that she won't be able to take the kids if she chooses to make the separation from you permanent. This may also help you as a bargaining chip in obtaining more detailed information about the OM such as his full name and the license plate number of his car. Emotional blackmail? You bet, but who cares when your marriage and your children's well being is at stake.


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## Wolfgar

morituri- She doesn't know I have gps, she thinks I found out b/c I called her work and they told me she was gone. While we have been living together, I was fine with it...but I needed to know that she was keeping her word and being faithful and cutting off communication with this guy. Confronting her last night just gave me proof that she was being dishonest and now that I know that...I'm "detaching" and letting her go (probably what I should have done from the begining). I could see it in her eyes that it was a constant struggle for her, she even admitted to me that she has been tempted to contact him. All it took was him going up to her bar and she couldn't resist him.

Right now I have her on gps, she's been driving around our town all morning(which is about 45 min from her work/friends/lover), not really sure what she's doing. She has no money and apparently has yet to find a friend to stay with.

If I tell her that I'd let her move back in if she quit her job and completely gave me full transparency and stopped contact with this guy....would that be to soon? Does she need to naturally let go of her feelings for him on her own? I fear that letting her go free, she's just going to dig herself deeper and deeper and self destruct more, then we will have zero chance of getting back together.


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## Sindo

You have OM's name. Do you know what he looks like? Maybe he has a Facebook.


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## Shaggy

I was thinking about their meeting up so soon after you called him.

I think he was trying to find out how much you knew about him and if you really coud contact his wife.

Hopefully your wife told him you didn't knw enough, since that will mske him let his guard down, and that will give you opportunity to nail him.

She will run out of gas soon if she keeps driving and has no money, not to mention she will need to eat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri

Seangar said:


> If I tell her that I'd let her move back in if she quit her job and completely gave me full transparency and stopped contact with this guy....would that be to soon? Does she need to naturally let go of her feelings for him on her own? *I fear* that letting her go free, she's just going to dig herself deeper and deeper and self destruct more, then we will have zero chance of getting back together.


As much as it hurts you to see her suffer, resist the temptation to make her not feel the pain of the consequences of her affair. Follow through with the filing of divorce and seeking temporary custody of the children. Her brain needs to replace the pleasure she has derived from her affair with pain. Only then can she start to come out of 'the fog'. You have a window of opportunity that may soon close if you don't take advantage of it.


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## Eli-Zor

morituri said:


> As much as it hurts you to see her suffer, resist the temptation to make her not feel the pain of the consequences of her affair. Follow through with the filing of divorce and seeking temporary custody of the children. Her brain needs to replace the pleasure she has derived from her affair with pain. Only then can she start to come out of 'the fog'. You have a window of opportunity that may soon close if you don't take advantage of it.



I agree with this, normally I would say hang in and don't seperate however as your wife is no longer in the house I suggest you move fast to secure a legal seperation , be the primary carer and require alimony . Your wife may choose to reconsider her options . The challenge then is if she does not love you , you cannot make her. 

Out the OM , work on yourself and fight hard to keep your children.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri

The point of the tough love approach is for her to face the following question:

_"Was the pleasure of the sucking the OM's d!ck worth losing my family and marriage?"_

Crass? You bet. Nevertheless, brutally true.


----------



## Wolfgar

Yes, basically thats why the guy went up there to see my wife...to feel out what I knew and if I could indeed contact his wife....so his guard is still low

I need to read up on the "tough love" approach, I feel like it's kind of what I'm naturally progressing too. I read that "just let them go" thread, and it's solid advice. I just don't think I would want her back after letting her go, I have boundaries and once that line is crossed I doubt I'll want to be with her. 

She called me just a little while ago, we talked about things. She's still detached of course, everything I say goes in one ear and out the other. 

I told her I was putting everything on the table, I said I was willing to give her a chance...to work on things, go to counseling, but she must quit her job and stop contact with him....if she did that I would let her move back in and we can see what happens. Otherwise, I said I'm prepared to go on without you and be a single father, I've come to terms with that. I said, I don't expect you to make the right choice in your current state of mind, but I'm still giving you the choice regardless. Her response, "i dont know". I said ok, well you can think about it....she said "alright I will and I'll call you later". 

Not sure this is tough love, perhaps I caved in a bit to soon after kicking her out, I suppose i'm just trying to prevent her from crossing that line of no return.


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## morituri

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ________
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. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .`=-,. . . . . . . . . .,%`>--==``
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . _\. . . . . ._,-%. . . ..`\

I'm sorry Seangar but you are far from implementing a tough love approach. When she told you 'I don't know' your response to her should have been:

_"Look wife, I won't be in an open relationship with you, I won't give you X number of days, weeks, months to make your mind, if you really feel like you need to sit on the fence on this decision and can't decide between your affair partner and me well I will make the decision for you, you can be with them because I'm no longer an option. I love you and wish you a good life with them and hope it works out for you because it didn't work out for us. Now the best thing we can do for each other is to make this process as graceful and peaceful as possible for us and our children, I'll contact a lawyer/mediator and get started on the process of our legal separation/divorce."_

But since you did not allow her to feel the pain of the consequences of her betrayal, the only thing you managed to do was to extend the status quo.

Like it or not, you are in a one sided open marriage. How long you want to continue being in it? Only you can answer that.


----------



## Wolfgar

And what if she calls me tonight and says she will quit her job, stop contact, and go to counseling? 

I just wanted to give her an option before it was completely over. I understand the tough love, all I'm saying is I wont want her back after a prolonged relationship with her other guy...if that's what she needs to wake up then I DO NOT WANT HER. Right now it's still early, she just has a childish infatuation with him. I will use what you just gave me though when I talk to her tonight, at this point it can go one way or the other, I'm prepared for both


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## morituri

Seangar said:


> And what if she calls me tonight and says she will quit her job, stop contact, and go to counseling?


Then ask her:

How are you going to prove this to me when you've already broken your word that you would never again have any contact with the OM?

If she can't answer that question to your satisfaction then propose the following non negotiable demand. Have her setup the OM by calling him right tonight and requesting to see him outside the bar. Call a male friend to accompany you and your wife to 1) prevent you from doing something stupid like beating the OM to a bloody pulp, and 2) have him take down the license plate information, make and manufacturer of his vehicle which can be used to track his home address. 

The point is to show your wife what a miserable, cowardly worm the OM truly is when he publicly throws her under the bus in both your presence (and that of your friend). In many cases, this action alone opens the eyes of a cheating wife who had developed feelings of love for the OM. Of course there is the risk that he will man up and declare his undying love for her, but I seriously doubt it from what you conveyed to us from the last time you talked with him. But if it does play out to form, you can then ask her in his presence.

"Is this the kind of crap you are willing to throw awat your marriage and family for?. If it is then I want nothing more to do with you."

Give it some thought.


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## Yardman

That's your call on what to do IF she calls and agrees to your terms. There is a difference in her taking a few hours to make a decision and putting it off for days/weeks/months.

What is your plan if she doesn't call or calls and says she can't decide?


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## turnera

Seangar said:


> And what if she calls me tonight and says she will quit her job, stop contact, and go to counseling?


Then you say, great! Call me after you no longer work there, and after you have written the NC letter for me to send to OM, and after you have lined up an appointment for us to attend MC. Until then, I have nothing to say to you.


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## Dadof3

Maybe throw in a negative STD panel too...


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## the guy

I agree with turnera, and in addition....depending on which way she goes pile on the bs if she still can't make a choice or deside to stay with OM then lay on the consequence crap.

What I mean is scare her with cusdody and infrom her that until her transient life style is fixed she will not see the kid. Inform her you will contact her in a few months as a court order is *final*. The thinking here is to come up with as many scary possiblities in regard to how final this all is .....and even it its all bull in what you tell her, my point is a scare straight kind of approach if she can't decide or chooses the OM.

BUT..............................

If she chooses to NC & guiting then as much as I aggree with turnera, I have to say her (turnera) approach seems like you are piling on more demands. My thinking is if she does want to come back, get her back home and work with her on the job thing....thats # 1 and tied for #1 is also the NC and contacting OWM with your W. You can work on these things together, it sounds like she the type that will need the help!

My experience is when they do choose to come back they are doing it for convience. *So* make sure you make it loud and clear that there will be heavy cosequence and make sure you prepare her for what you are expecting and recap the boundries you have and crossing them will put her back on the streets.

Make it very clear that her choice to come home may not be as convienent as she thinks and no matter what, there will be consequences. So many times the wayward comes home with the perception that it will all work out and don't realize the harder work it is to fix them selves and the marriage. So make sure you take any expectatiion away by being very forward in what you need to heal from her betrayal.....if she chooses to stay.

Again my opinion is getting her home if she choose to quiting & NC and working with her .....face it she is to weak to do the things on her own that tunera suggest....you will never get that call......but with your persuasion and stronger influence of being with her, it might get her to get her boo together.

One last thing, you also need to be *warned* this R crap aint easy and she will for sure go through withdrawals and a deep depression....Thats why MC is #2 on the list, even some IC.

The only thing about IC is you aren't there and you lose somesort of influence. Mabye months from now after the NC and she finds a "safer" job then IC would be a good help. But for now if this R thing goes south and she bails months from now then you can walk away knowing you gave it a shot for your family, her, and for you.

Who knows if you don't take the step. IMHO you can have the tough love and have forgiveness. It will be up to her to screw up this last chance.....A three strick policy that will not give you any regrets later on.


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## Wolfgar

Ready to hear the next chapter in the worst experience of my life?

I finally said F it, I went to each of the 10 addresses that intelius.com gave me. Going up to each one asking, "Does John Lewis live here"? Finally, I found his house. His mother came to the door and told me yes he lives here but he's at work, I asked if his wife was available...she said no she's out shopping....I asked for her number, she gave it to me (even let me in his house, I saw his 2 month old baby laying there, a pretty strange experience). I immediately called the mom and broke her the news. Told her everything I know...she thanks me for contacting her and said she was in shock, etc. 

So there it is, operation contact wife....ACCOMPLISHED! 

Not sure where it will go from here. Should I talk to my wife when she calls me later or just ignore her?


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## Shaggy

Talk to her, but only listen. She will accuse you of doing something unnecessary and mean. That being tellng the truth. 

Let her have her rant, and wait for the OM to throw her under the bus.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

Oh and damn good work there!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered

2 month old baby? Yeah, he's throwing her under the bus
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## baldmale

First step in recovery is to kill the affair. Well, done.

When she accuses you of being mean and vengeful, remind her that it only the truth of her actions that you've revealed.

And that you are fighting for your marriage, nothing more or less.


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## Yardman

Glad you found him and told his wife. Good Job!

Yes, take the call if your wife calls you. Don't bring up the fact you contacted OM's wife. Just ask her what her decision is.


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## Dadof3

Wow! I'm impressed! Good work Seangar!


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## lordmayhem

Almostrecovered said:


> 2 month old baby? Yeah, he's throwing her under the bus
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

Most definitely. Your WW is about to get thrown under the bus by her OM alright. You definitely deserve the knuckle bump.


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## F-102

Good job, Seangar!

Read up on the threads from the legendary Shamwow-his STBXW did it too: tried to guilt him when he exposed the affair to the OM's W by saying he needlessly made the OMW's life miserable-after the OMW thanked him profusely for the info.

And yes, the OM dropped her like a greased bowling ball.


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## F-102

Oh, and if you can, talk to your W and get that decision from her BEFORE the OM has time to contact her.


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## the guy

Well played sir.

As far as talking to your wife, I think you still need to finalize this, she is on the fence, your still on the fence......Give her a shot then if she choose to guit the bar and NC/OM then continue to talk, but if this "last" contact goes the other way, then go dark.

This is it, the line in the sand IMHO.

All have beed exposed, your boundries are set, it is her day to decide. She has slept in her car, she has no money, has no were to go, everyone now knows, her husband (you) have excepted the lose of his marriage and is working on moving on. 

The ball is in her court, a choice that will change the rest of her life.


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## Dadof3

yea - that'd be telling. just explain to her that you thought about it for a while and you decided that you couldn't wait forever. As her decision to cheat was made quickly, so is her decision to quit cheating.


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## Wolfgar

Is there a sticky for all the acronyms you guys use, it can be hard to understand?

and THANKS GUYS, I owe it to everyone of you for keeping me motivated and not giving up on contacting this guys wife. As of now she's down at her bar working, I believe she picked up a shift. The guys wife expressed to me that she has noticed him being detached and think's he might just leave and be with my wife, and that she doesn't really care what he does at this point. She said she's confronting him in an hour and telling him to get out of their house. Now that he'll be out and my wife has no where to go, I think you can imagine what's going to happen. 

I thought about telling her to come home, that this needs to be discussed tonight...and a decision must be made (telling her the things you guys have suggested).


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## Almostrecovered

If you click the newbie link in my signature you'll find the acronyms
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered

Btw, if ow is kicking him out, you can guarantee he will be at the bar tonight
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wolfgar

So should I go up to the bar and speak with my wife there?


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## Shaggy

Let her go. If she can find a man that cheats on a new born kid attractive, then let her go. He's a pathetic worm. But he will be now dealing with his own baggage and not the free and fun guy he was. He will be angry and resentful of her too. They will quickly turn on each other if left alone. He is a selfish jerk, do you think he is going to be able to put effort in for any time listening to her problems? Nope! Instead he'll be dumping on her, on how badly you messed things up for him. How nasty you are.

Nw step back and look at you and him. You are the strong alpha that has kicked sand back in the predators face. He, while once fun and attractive to her, is now the pathetic cheater who has been kicked out his own home. Oh, and he cheated on his new born.

When you do talk to her about it, mention how you met the guys mother, and how you saw his new born kid. Show her how ****ty this guy is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

Seangar said:


> So should I go up to the bar and speak with my wife there?


No. Let her come to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wolfgar

His wife just told him, she said he denied everything, now he's probably going to warn my wife. FUCCCCKK there goes the element of surprise. He will not doubt be going up there, I'd kind of like to punk him out in front of my wife (be an alpha). 

Shag- Your advice makes sense, and I def planned on telling her I got to meet his newborn and old mom


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## Yardman

Try this thread for acronyms

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/forum-guidelines/464-common-message-board-abbreviations-acronyms.html


If OM's wife kicks him out, odds are He will go to the bar to see your wife and compare notes.


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## Shaggy

Your in the alpha male spot right now. You've successfully dealt a damaging blow to the OM. So don't give up that spot of power by trying to negotiate or entice her.

Alphas set terms and they are take it or leave it terms.

They don't plead and they don't negotiate on stuff like this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

Seangar said:


> His wife just told him, she said he denied everything, now he's probably going to warn my wife. FUCCCCKK


Warn her about what! That you dealt with the OM. Hold your head high, you've told the truth.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

Seangar said:


> His wife just told him, she said he denied everything, now he's probably going to warn my wife. FUCCCCKK there goes the element of surprise. He will not doubt be going up there, I'd kind of like to punk him out in front of my wife (be an alpha).
> 
> Shag- Your advice makes sense, and I def planned on telling her I got to meet his newborn and old mom


Actually let him go to her and be the scared pathetic worm. Heck he might even make a scene and get thrown out, or better yet get her fired.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadof3

Yea - in this case - you've done whats important - whether he admits it or not to his W is not your concern. The fact is, he's been exposed, she already had a sneaking suspicion, and if he tries to stay, he will certainly throw your W under the bus to do so. 

His W will be on him like flies on a pile of s*it, provided she gives him the benefit of the doubt that you might be a kook. 

What will truly be telling is what your W makes out of his exposure. There is where the gold is. This will tell you whether you are fantasizing about R or not.


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## Dadof3

Shaggy said:


> Actually let him go to her and be the scared pathetic worm. Heck he might even make a scene and get thrown out, or better yet get her fired.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Actually, this might be the time to monitor the traffic at the bar when he shows up to talk to her. This where you and a friend give him the fright of his life. (without touching or threatening, of course).


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## Wolfgar

Dadof3 said:


> What will truly be telling is what your W makes out of his exposure. There is where the gold is. This will tell you whether you are fantasizing about R or not.


Can you be more specific Dadof?


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## Wolfgar

Dadof3 said:


> Actually, this might be the time to monitor the traffic at the bar when he shows up to talk to her. This where you and a friend give him the fright of his life. (without touching or threatening, of course).


haha and more specifics on this? This is an idea I like, out alpha male'ing him even more. I'd also like to go up to the bar and talk to my wife before she has a chance to know that I exposed him to his wife. If she's knows I have exposed him, she will be more likely to agree to my terms....and I don't want that, I was her to make a decision in her mind set as of now. I won't be a second choice


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## Shaggy

Seangar said:


> haha and more specifics on this? This is an idea I like, out alpha male'ing him even more. I'd also like to go up to the bar and talk to my wife before she has a chance to know that I exposed him to his wife. If she's knows I have exposed him, she will be more likely to agree to my terms....and I don't want that, I was her to make a decision in her mind set as of now. I won't be a second choice


I really think you shoud play it cool here. Nothing good will come from you going to her, or telling her. Let the drama play out, you are the director who set it in motion, but right now it's best to let it play out without more tinkering.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadof3

I'm taking the tact the others have - let him seek her out to talk, but in this situation, you ask her for her decision to stay or leave BEFORE he gets there, say you thought it over, and you can't wait around forever. Then don't mention the exposure to OMW. Leave it alone.

Then stake out the bar with your buddy and wait for him to show up and talk to the W. Question is - do it if W doesn't want to R, or do it either way. Hmmm..


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## Wolfgar

I'm a bit torn as to how I should proceed. I think for now, I'll just sit back and let it play out...I'll be the bigger person. I still do have my gps, so I will know when she's out of work and where she goes


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## Yardman

Does the OM's wife know where your wife works? If so, she may be showing up there to confront your wife. If you go to the bar, USE EXTREME SELF-RESTRAINT!!!


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## Wolfgar

Yard- I told the guys wife where my wife works and that she was working tonight. I hope she does go up there and cause a scene


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## Dadof3

Yea - Sean - this is part of what i referred to as the "gold". If the OMW shows ups to confront your W and your W lies to OMW - you'll know that W has no integrity and you can make the decision to go dark and draw up divorce papers. Its the "moment of truth".


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## Dadof3

If she lies to protect OM, and throws YOU under the bus, well then, you have your answer.


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## CH

Seangar said:


> Yard- I told the guys wife where my wife works and that she was working tonight. I hope she does go up there and cause a scene


I probably wouldn't have done that. The bar owner doesn't deserve to have his place become some soap opera for his patrons.

BTW, it could damage the bar owners reputation if word spreads that his employees sleep with married men/women. Unless you have proof that the bar owner condones and wants his employees to sleep with customers, not a cool thing to do to his business IMO.


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## Dadof3

True CH - however, that is the risk that bar owners take when they hire employees. I hate to say this for risking offense to those who are / are married to restaurant employees, but I've heard one too many stories about how easy bar / restaurant employees are. Whether single or married. I know that all restaurant employees don't fall under this, this is not uncommon ground for a bar owner.


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## morituri

Seangar said:


> Yard- I told the guys wife where my wife works and that she was working tonight. I hope she does go up there and cause a scene


I hope she (the OM's wife) does go to the bar and causes a scene. 

Your wife needs to see the face of one of her two victims. Hopefully the OM's wife will show her a picture of her baby so that your wife sees the face of an innocent whose family life she helped to destroy, just like she has destroyed the family life of the innocent children she gave birth.


----------



## Dadof3

morituri said:


> I hope she (the OM's wife) does go to the bar and causes a scene.
> 
> Your wife needs to see the face of one of her two victims. Hopefully the OM's wife will show her a picture of her baby so that your wife sees the face of an innocent whose family life she helped to destroy, just like she has destroyed the family life of the innocent children she gave birth.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Yardman

I would NOT be worried about what the bar owner thinks, that's just me. Heck, his business might increase if men find out his barmaids are easy and or looking for action.

Seangar, is this gps tracking her phone or planted in her car?


----------



## Wolfgar

morituri said:


> I hope she (the OM's wife) does go to the bar and causes a scene.
> 
> Your wife needs to see the face of one of her two victims. Hopefully the OM's wife will show her a picture of her baby so that your wife sees the face of an innocent whose family life she helped to destroy, just like she has destroyed the family life of the innocent children she gave birth.


I found his wife on facebook, I have been looking at their families pictures. I thought about txting her a pic of his wife and baby. I'll hold off on that for now. But ya thats exactly why I told the other guys wife, I want her to go up there...wake my childish wife out of her fantasy. 

And the bar owner? Really? It's a f'ing bar...they deal with that on a nightly basis. If something does happen, then he fires my wife...a win win


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## Chaparral

Kinda doubt POSOM will be leaving the house tonight. LOL

Good luck Seangar


----------



## Yardman

Dadof3 said:


> True CH - however, that is the risk that bar owners take when they hire employees. I hate to say this for risking offense to those who are / are married to restaurant employees, but I've heard one too many stories about how easy bar / restaurant employees are. Whether single or married. I know that all restaurant employees don't fall under this, this is not uncommon ground for a bar owner.


My experience has been that bar/restuarant employees are more likely to cheat than those employed in other occupations.


----------



## Wolfgar

chapparal said:


> Kinda doubt POSOM will be leaving the house tonight. LOL
> 
> Good luck Seangar


Thanks man, and I'm not sure he has much of a choice. His wife seemed pretty determined that he leave She's actually pretty hot and a successful physical therapist, maybe i'll trade my bar rag wife in for his.




Yardman said:


> My experience has been that bar/restuarant employees are more likely to cheat than those employed in other occupations.


lets not get back on the topic of which profession is the worst for married people yard. We need to figure out my next move to own this situation and wake my wife the hell up (but yes the bar/restaurant industry is the worst)


----------



## Yardman

I think you own this situation now. It's now a waiting game to see how your wife handles herself and what she decides to do. A non-action by her is actually a telling action.


----------



## F-102

Say, Sean-here's an idea: if the OMW goes to confront and cause a scene, see if you can have her tell the owner that her H has a DUI on his record. Not only will your W get fired, but he'll never be let in that dive again!


----------



## Wolfgar

Yardman said:


> I think you own this situation now. It's now a waiting game to see how your wife handles herself and what she decides to do. A non-action by her is actually a telling action.


Yes I realize that yard, but I guess I'm torn. I feel like she hasn't reached the point of no return yet. Tonight she is vulnerable, has no money, no place to stay....he just got kicked out as well. There's nothing to stop them from getting a hotel and staying the night together. I feel like if that happens, I'm completely done. I believe that bad choices are usually largely dependent on the circumstances and situations we're faced with, I'd rather prevent her being with him as an option. Although, me doing nothing...her turning him down would be amazing and would prove A LOT to me, but she obviously isn't in the right state of mind to make a decision like that, shes lost in the fog. So I feel like I have to treat her like a child who doesn't know what they are doing.

If I had thought things passed the point of no return, I would easily be fine with having zero contact with her and letting her do what she wants. (I feel that this affair has been 90% emotional for her)

Does that make any sense or is that just foolish of me?


----------



## morituri

Seangar, you forget that part of the 'fun' of affairs is their secrecy. Now that the OM's world is about to be blown to smithereens, the likelyhood that he's going to want to keep seeing your wife is slim to none. He's got bigger things to be concerned about, like how much is the divorce is going to cost him and how much he is going to be paying in child support. The days of getting another man's wife to give him a BJ without anybody finding out, have come to an end. Where's Lorena Bobbitt when you need her?


----------



## the guy

If its not to late, tell OMW that you are going to WW work and hope her WH is there.
Confront this POSOM and warn him the extent you are willing to go to make this affair as inconvienent and as uncomfortable as possible.
Inform him you will stop at this point if he breaks it off with your WW, or you will continue to inform his employer and his parents that OM is involved with your wife.

Part of me agrees with you and letting things play out but like you said, but it could play out in the wrong direction. there by making it more difficult to keep throwing sand in this engine call infidelity.

My take is your WW is weak and is fence sitting, make an effort to stand up to POSOM infront of your WW....it is empowering you just have to have self control.....it won't do you or your kids if get busted, but getting kicked out of a bar well i would think it would be worth the effort to make a seen...

Keep an eye on the prize, if your lucky he hits you 1st then you drop (no matter if he misses drop any ways) and then maybe your wife comforts you and he goes to jail.

Just my $0.02


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## Dadof3

Stake out the hotel for W and POSM using GPS. Find out from OMW what make and model car he drives (and license) as you want to find out if they stay together or not. Then you'll have your answer. Wont matter if she denies them having sex or not - it's totally inappropriate considering the circumstances, and OMW will want to know the outcome too!


----------



## Yardman

I understand where you are coming from/feeling. A way to stay Alpha and not push her away would be to contact her and demand a decision.

The bad part about that is she is likely to give into your demands/boundaries as an "easy-out" from the hell she is in now. If you take her back after calling her...stick with your boundaries and what she must do be welcomed back into your life.


----------



## the guy

Again my view is she's fence sitting and she can turn either way. Getting punched by OM my get her to see what a piece of work he is.

My point is show the "olive leaf" now, you can alway take it back. Everything is falling around her, make the peace offering. And don't forget to bring a picture of OM family from OMW FB page.

Go down to the bar now "there is a family emergency" get her out and get her home. Its the hour of darkness for her, be there for her. If she turns you away then you for sure know were you stand and then it will be time to go dark.

I did something totaly bad...I used my "son's in a car acident" to get my bartender wife out of work....she was pissed...I told her extreme measure were needed. I will never do that again BTW..


----------



## Yardman

Another option....call OMW and see if OM left da house. If so, you and OMW go to bar shortly before closing time. I'm betting OM's mother would watch all the kids if needed.


----------



## Wolfgar

Yardman said:


> Another option....call OMW and see if OM left da house. If so, you and OMW go to bar shortly before closing time. I'm betting OM's mother would watch all the kids if needed.


His wife told me he was staying at a hotel down by my wifes work. Not looking good. I texted her, "take a break from your married man and call you're kids, they miss you"

And my gps hasnt updated in 50 minutes


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## Yardman

If the gps was in her phone, she might have figured that out and shut the phone down. If the POSOM is staying near her work at a hotel...yeah, not good

Stop down there with his wife and say hello, or just hit da bar before closing


----------



## Shaggy

If she hasn't charged her iPhone it may have runout of power.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Wolfgar

yea the gps is updating now...i'll keep you guys informed, I know you're all on the edge of your seats


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## sadcalifornian

Yes, with sweaty palms !!!


----------



## avenrandom

Seangar said:


> I texted her, "take a break from your married man and call you're kids, they miss you"


I know you are trying to distract her from whatever other actions could be taking place, but unless she contacts you, >>stop<<. Every single time you contact her, you lose your power position. Being the alpha is not a game, not something you do to one-up the OM... it's a way of life you need to embrace. I've been there and I know how hard it is, but you've got to try harder. My wife (the one who left and came back) is sitting right next to me, and I asked her this question...

Q: "Remember that night when I kept sending you random messages about the cat, your wedding ring, a sleeping-bag etc? How did you feel?"
Her Response: "I wanted to scream 'STOP CONTACTING ME' because you were annoying, clingy, and obviously trying to keep a hold onto something that was already gone."


----------



## aug

avenrandom said:


> I know you are trying to distract her from whatever other actions could be taking place, but unless she contacts you, >>stop<<. Every single time you contact her, you lose your power position. Being the alpha is not a game, not something you do to one-up the OM... it's a way of life you need to embrace. I've been there and I know how hard it is, but you've got to try harder.* My wife* (the one who left and came back) *is sitting right next to me*, and I asked her this question...
> 
> Q: "Remember that night when I kept sending you random messages about the cat, your wedding ring, a sleeping-bag etc? How did you feel?"
> Her Response: "I wanted to scream 'STOP CONTACTING ME' because you were annoying, clingy, and obviously trying to keep a *hold onto something that was already gone.*"



Obviously didnt go very far...


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## Shaggy

Anyone else worried that he's gone dark? I hope nothing nasty has happened.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadof3

i suspect there is a deep conversation taking place or undercover monitoring happening.


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## Yardman

I hope he is down at the bar having a good discussion with OMW over a few drinks. The odds are better on Do3's guess.


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## Dadof3

Yardman - that would be the preferred option - wouldn't it? How would W like to see that? Seangar and OMW meeting for drinks?! I LIKE that IDEA!


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## Yardman

The look on his wife's face would be priceless


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## Wolfgar

She went back to a hotel with him, one of the worst days of my life. I'll tell more tomorrow. Gnight


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## Yardman

That sucks! She made her choice. Might as well pack her stuff and have it on the porch or in the garage for her.


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## sadcalifornian

Call OMW immediately !


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## Yardman

sadcalifornian said:


> Call OMW immediately !


:iagree:

Do that and pack up her stuff. Garabage bags will work fine


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## Dadof3

So sorry for you and your kids. Well, now she lives the law of natural consequence. 

I believe D papers are in order now. She WILL regret her actions some day. It will be difficult for her to pay alimony and child support on a waitress wages. 

My condolences to you.


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## Wolfgar

His wife knows they are together at a hotel right now, I sent her a pic of their cars next to each other. She's on her way up there right now. 

I was at the hotel with my 2 kids, my wife knew I was there...wouldn't come out. I found her at a bar with him using my gps, followed them from there to a pharmacy (probably buying condoms), then from there to the hotel I lost them (it's dark and raining here). By the time I found them using my gps they were already in the hotel, which sucks b/c I was going to confront them in the hotel parking lot. They wouldnt tell me the room number. Called her and him both. They both turned their phones off. Hotel called the police on me, I had the police check on her to make sure she wasn't under the influence. They said she was fine, she was there by her own free will. One cop said he brought her aside and talked to her privately, told her that her husband and two kids were in the parking lot. She said she didn't want to come down. 

Definitely one of the lowest points in my life and the line I was trying to hard to prevent from being crossed. Seems like she had her mind made up, not sure there was anything I could do. My wife just picked a being a married mans hotel room whhore over her husband and 2 babies.


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## sadcalifornian

Wow, Just Wow....


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## SadSamIAm

It is so sad to watch these stories unfold. Many lives have been ruined. The OMW is now left with very young kids and no father. The OP has tried all he can to get his wife to think about what she is doing. Now she has ruined her marriage and is stuck with a Cheating loser of a guy that can leave his wife and small kids. 

The two of them are in love. How sweet! But we all know the end of this story. The two of them won't last. They will see that their fantasy is just a fantasy. They will both come to realize that they are with a cheater. That they can't trust each other. That they have families and responsibilities that won't go away. 

One of them or both of them will realize that they screwed up and they will want their family back. But it will be too late. Their faithful spouse may take them back but their marriage will never be the same. 

The two people that are hurting the most right now are the two with the best chance at a future. They have their integrity. I hope you both the best. Be strong, and look after yourselves. Your children need you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Yardman

Hang in there, it ain't your fault and you've handled the situation well. I feel bad for you and your kids. Heck, his wife and kids too. 

It would be tempting to just throw all her stuff out in the rain. Garbage bags have better symbolism though.


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## morituri

First, get the idea that you could have prevented this from happening out of your head. You can't control her, accept that. She made her choice.

So what can you do? Dump her, file for divorce, and seek temporary custody of your kids. You need to implement 'Just Let Them Go' and 'The 180' for your emotional healing and strength.

We know what your are going through because we've been where you are at this very moment. If we could make it through the ordeal of betrayal, so can you. You have us, you are not alone.


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## warlock07

Wow...Things like this make me hate humanity in general. I will be depressed for today. Looks like she was lying all this time.


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## Shaggy

Get the divrce papers going tomorrow and go for full custody. She is disgusting and not worthy of bring called a mother. After all that has gone on, to openly shack up in a hotel with a married man in front of her kids. Wow,what a vile piece if human trash.

I'm sorry if this just comes across as hurtful, you really seem like a good dad and guy. I'm just do disgusted with what has gone wrong here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

warlock07 said:


> Wow...Things like this make me hate humanity in general. I will be depressed for today. Looks like she was lying all this time.


Yes, this is just about as bad as it could have turned out to be. Looking back on it, with last nights escapades thrown in, this looks like its been a PA for quite sometime. Probably as far back as when OMs wife was giving birth to the pile of sh!ts baby.


----------



## Chaparral

Shaggy said:


> Get the divrce papers going tomorrow and go for full custody. She is disgusting and not worthy of bring called a mother. After all that has gone on, to openly shack up in a hotel with a married man in front of her kids. Wow,what a vile piece if human trash.
> 
> I'm sorry if this just comes across as hurtful, you really seem like a good dad and guy. I'm just do disgusted with what has gone wrong here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Almostrecovered

My sympathies Sean, 

do know that by exposing you merely sped up the process, they would have kept seeing each other in secret and you would have been left hanging by a string and the OMW would be clueless and wondering what was wrong, now you and OMW can make plans for a better life. Meanwhile your wife and OM will likely self-destruct.


----------



## lordmayhem

chapparal said:


> Yes, this is just about as bad as it could have turned out to be. Looking back on it, with last nights escapades thrown in, this looks like its been a PA for quite sometime. Probably as far back as when OMs wife was giving birth to the pile of sh!ts baby.


:iagree:

PA for quite a while I'm sure of it.


----------



## Shaggy

chapparal said:


> Yes, this is just about as bad as it could have turned out to be. Looking back on it, with last nights escapades thrown in, this looks like its been a PA for quite sometime. Probably as far back as when OMs wife was giving birth to the pile of sh!ts baby.


This makes sense, Her connection to the OM has been way too strong for someone who just talked and went on a couple dates and a little "in car" fooling around that didn't get completed.


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## Chaparral

Almostrecovered said:


> My sympathies Sean,
> 
> do know that by exposing you merely sped up the process, they would have kept seeing each other in secret and you would have been left hanging by a string and the OMW would be clueless and wondering what was wrong, now you and OMW can make plans for a better life. Meanwhile your wife and OM will likely self-destruct.


110% percent of this train wreck is WW's and POSOM's fault. Odds are POSOM will still end up with his wife and WW will be left holding the bag with a broken marriage/family in it.


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## Chaparral

I would also get his picture and expose him on cheaterville.com. Then I would text him to google his name. Some posters here do notlike cheaerville but I feel roaches need all the light shining on them as possible. Let'em carry that weight that they have picked up.


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## Wolfgar

His wife told me that he's trying to work on things with her and that he wants to come back home. So it sounds like he's basically throwing my wife under the bus, which we all knew would happen. 

He also told his wife that my wife slept in the car the night before and that she had not money and no place to stay. That's why he let her stay with him. Both him and my wife have said they did not have sex. He told his wife my wife slept on a cot haha. My wife told me they messed around a little and slept in the same bed, BUT DID NOT HAVE SEX she expressed 90% chance she's lying, even if she wasn't, it's not like it matters. 

Now I'm about to do the 180/just let them go...I told her I wouldnt let her see the kids until she got her shiit straightened out and started seeing a therapist. I told her she can come get her **** tmmr morning and she can have a good life with her married man. I also txt her a pic of his wife holding his baby, and I said "say hi to lisa, a loving wife and mother. She's a sweet person, maybe we can trade spouses"

I like that cheaterville idea...I'll check it out


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## Dadof3

That was a forgone conclusion! I have a difficult time believing POS W would take POS back after that. "We spent the night together (but little to nothing happened). SURE!"

I'm sad for you and your family too, Seangar.


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## Dadof3

Also - lest I forget my Clintonese - doesn't "messing around" qualify as sex? Just cause it doesn't end in a climax through sexual intercourse?


----------



## morituri

Seangar said:


> I also txt her a pic of his wife holding his baby, and I said "say hi to Lisa, a loving wife and mother. She's a sweet person, maybe we can trade spouses"


Good job. The gutless cowards must be forced to see the faces of their victims.

If you and Lisa divorce your cheating POS spouses, maybe you should consider establishing a platonic friendship with her.


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## Almostrecovered

would give new meaning to the term "wife swapping"


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## Wolfgar

Whats sad, is I thought what she did last night would have made me want nothing to do with her and care nothing about her. But honestly, I feel sorry for her. She's not the same person...she was an amazing person 95% of our relationship, now she's turned into someone that's disgusting...it honestly breaks my heart to see her this way. And surprisingly, I'm open to the idea of us being together later down the road after she's figured things out and has gotten help. I still love her


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## morituri

The woman you are seeing is the woman she has been all along. You are just seeing her for the first time. The woman you thought you married was simply an illusion.

Granted that she may not have been unfaithful to you in the past but at the very least she subconsciously had entertained the idea of leaving you for another man. Then came the ideal conditions and she was up and running. Her lack of true remorse and willingness to end the affair and commit to doing the hard work of marital recovery, is proof of this.


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## warlock07

She messed around the night you found her with him waiting in the rain with your kids. She wouldn't even have the decency to face you but still messed around with him the same day. And you would give her a chance again? Think again, think hard this time? Who is she?


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## turnera

Have you called her parents and siblings yet today to inform them? Get on it.


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## Shaggy

So if the OM is throwing her under the bus, and she has no money. What is she going to do?

Removing the OM from her support network was a good good step. 

She will be finding it harder and harder moving forward. Of course if OMW decides she's done with him after he's let back in, he may still be out.


Either way you know a few things:

1. You know more about him and through his wife can continue to track if they are meeting up. (You should maintain some kind of contact with the OMW as a way of both of you keeping tabs on them)

2. You know that she was likely lying about how little they've done in the past. They are way to quick to run to one another for a couple that has just had a couple of dates and some fumble play in a car. they are acting the part of a couple that is in way deeper together. Knowing this is important because it tells you how far she would need to come out of the fog before any R is possible.

3. You know she is a coward. She will run in hide in a hotel room and even call the cops to hide from facing the truth to you and the kids. 

4. You also know she is currently beyond feeling remorse. She is still in the fog of you being the bad guy who wants to stop her happiness.

5. You also have memories to give you strength to hold out for a real R and real truth if she offers you a small negotiated return to the status quo. You know she's been lying, she has been in contact with him, and she has down played what they've engaged in together. This will hopefully give you strength in only accepting real remorse and real truth, if she ever comes out of the fog.


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## morituri

Calling her parents may not be a bad idea for as loathsome as her actions have been so far, her mental state may be such that she might consider suicide as an escape.


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## Wolfgar

I have basically exposed her to my entire family and her mother and father, in hopes that this would snap her out of it. Instead she's basically just cut off all contact from her family and mine. The only people she has now are her friends at the bar and her "lover". Everyone in my family is disgusted in her, it will definitely make reconciliation a bit harder I think...especially for her. 




shaggy said:


> if she ever comes out of the fog.


This is where I'm at right now. I'm not sure if she's made a permanent transformation or if she's just in this emotional fog? Which I honestly think it's just a matter of time before her infatuation cloud disappears and reality smacks her in the face (especially now that her lover will be running back to his wife, fantasy time is over). Someone said earlier that this is who she really has been all along, who I thought she was is an illusion...its a great line but I'm not sure I agree with it. She's stood by me and loved me when I've had nothing, up until this point she has always been an amazing mother and wife, she never even looked at another man...must less fantasied about being with one. The truth is I didn't step up in our marriage and she drifted away, she got her bar job and thought the grass was greener. She has always had problems (was raped by her brother growing up, had awful parents), she's weak, easily influenced, probably bi-polar, she's on anti depressants (she's told me that I'm a fixer)...and we've worked through a lot of those problems in the 10 years we've been together. This time around, when our marriage hit a low (mostly for financial reasons, me not having a job, me not being in school, her feeling like she was carrying all the burden) she just hit a breaking point and snapped. She quit caring, she quit putting her children and husband first and just did whatever she thought would make her happy (starting a relationship with a successful man), even if it meant destroying to families. She was finally being selfish for the first time and loved it, the fun they had was like a drug for her. After this happened and I realized I was losing her I played it completely wrong. I tried to show her I could be the man she's always wanted, doing whatever I could to make her happy, essentially competing for her with this other man, taking her out on dates, moving out of state to work, etc...but none of that mattered b/c by this point she was already infatuated by this other man and lost her feelings for me. It also didn't help that I constantly talked to her about it. I should have been more of an alpha male from the moment I found out.


----------



## sadcalifornian

What would it be like having sex for them while knowing their betrayed spouses are anxiously waiting down in the parking lot looking up at their window the whole time? The stress of situation heightened their sensory organs? Whatever they did must have magnified the intensity ten times. There is some very sick and perverted element in what they did.


----------



## morituri

The way to become more alpha male is to keep on searching for a job (even ones that sucks), Implement the 180 and 'Just Let Them Go', file for divorce, and seek temporary custody of the kids.

Oh and keep communications open with Lisa (OMW). The two of you can commiserate with each other to the chagrin of her POS husband.


----------



## Wolfgar

morituri said:


> The way to become more alpha male is to keep on searching for a job (even ones that sucks), Implement the 180 and 'Just Let Them Go', file for divorce, and seek temporary custody of the kids.
> Oh and keep communications open with Lisa (OMW). The two of you can commiserate with each other to the chagrin of her POS husband.


Yep, that's pretty much my plan of action. I have been talking to his wife all morning, looks like he's coming clean. Has basically told her the same things my wife has told me. She wants to stay in touch and let each other know if they are talking. I told her now that she's not living here I'm not sure how much help I can be, but I'll do my best to let her know. I also told her how to put gps on his phone and track him

Lets say a week goes by, my wife has no where to live, misses her kids, has no money, Christmas is around the corner...and she wants to move back in and work on things. Would that be false reconciliation? How will I know if she's really learned from what she's done and wants to be back with me for the right reasons?

Also, any responses to what I said here....

I have basically exposed her to my entire family and her mother and father, in hopes that this would snap her out of it. Instead she's basically just cut off all contact from her family and mine. The only people she has now are her friends at the bar and her "lover". Everyone in my family is disgusted in her, it will definitely make reconciliation a bit harder I think...especially for her. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaggy 
"if she ever comes out of the fog."

This is where I'm at right now. I'm not sure if she's made a permanent transformation or if she's just in this emotional fog? Which I honestly think it's just a matter of time before her infatuation cloud disappears and reality smacks her in the face (especially now that her lover will be running back to his wife, fantasy time is over). Someone said earlier that this is who she really has been all along, who I thought she was is an illusion...its a great line but I'm not sure I agree with it. She's stood by me and loved me when I've had nothing, up until this point she has always been an amazing mother and wife, she never even looked at another man...must less fantasied about being with one. The truth is I didn't step up in our marriage and she drifted away, she got her bar job and thought the grass was greener. She has always had problems (was raped by her brother growing up, had awful parents), she's weak, easily influenced, probably bi-polar, she's on anti depressants (she's told me that I'm a fixer)...and we've worked through a lot of those problems in the 10 years we've been together. This time around, when our marriage hit a low (mostly for financial reasons, me not having a job, me not being in school, her feeling like she was carrying all the burden) she just hit a breaking point and snapped. She quit caring, she quit putting her children and husband first and just did whatever she thought would make her happy (starting a relationship with a successful man), even if it meant destroying to families. She was finally being selfish for the first time and loved it, the fun they had was like a drug for her. After this happened and I realized I was losing her I played it completely wrong. I tried to show her I could be the man she's always wanted, doing whatever I could to make her happy, essentially competing for her with this other man, taking her out on dates, moving out of state to work, etc...but none of that mattered b/c by this point she was already infatuated by this other man and lost her feelings for me. It also didn't help that I constantly talked to her about it. I should have been more of an alpha male from the moment I found out.


----------



## Chaparral

Seangar said:


> I have basically exposed her to my entire family and her mother and father, in hopes that this would snap her out of it. Instead she's basically just cut off all contact from her family and mine. The only people she has now are her friends at the bar and her "lover". Everyone in my family is disgusted in her, it will definitely make reconciliation a bit harder I think...especially for her.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is where I'm at right now. I'm not sure if she's made a permanent transformation or if she's just in this emotional fog? Which I honestly think it's just a matter of time before her infatuation cloud disappears and reality smacks her in the face (especially now that her lover will be running back to his wife, fantasy time is over). Someone said earlier that this is who she really has been all along, who I thought she was is an illusion...its a great line but I'm not sure I agree with it. She's stood by me and loved me when I've had nothing, up until this point she has always been an amazing mother and wife, she never even looked at another man...must less fantasied about being with one. The truth is I didn't step up in our marriage and she drifted away, she got her bar job and thought the grass was greener. She has always had problems (was raped by her brother growing up, had awful parents), she's weak, easily influenced, probably bi-polar, she's on anti depressants (she's told me that I'm a fixer)...and we've worked through a lot of those problems in the 10 years we've been together. This time around, when our marriage hit a low (mostly for financial reasons, me not having a job, me not being in school, her feeling like she was carrying all the burden) she just hit a breaking point and snapped. She quit caring, she quit putting her children and husband first and just did whatever she thought would make her happy (starting a relationship with a successful man), even if it meant destroying to families. She was finally being selfish for the first time and loved it, the fun they had was like a drug for her. After this happened and I realized I was losing her I played it completely wrong. I tried to show her I could be the man she's always wanted, doing whatever I could to make her happy, essentially competing for her with this other man, taking her out on dates, moving out of state to work, etc...but none of that mattered b/c by this point she was already infatuated by this other man and lost her feelings for me. It also didn't help that I constantly talked to her about it. I should have been more of an alpha male from the moment I found out.


Read the first couple of chapters in Harley's book "His Needs Her Needs" and see if you don't see yourselves. If you can read this book and convince your wife to go along you might just save this situation.

Do not show meaness or anger. Hope for the best and prepare for the worst. Encourage OMW to take him back, I don't see what you have to lose at this point. 

Frankly, I think refusing to let her have Thanksgiving with you and then kicking her out to spend the night in the car was going way overboard. However I've been wrong before.


----------



## morituri

Seangar said:


> Lets say a week goes by, my wife has no where to live, misses her kids, has no money, Christmas is around the corner...and she wants to move back in and work on things. Would that be false reconciliation? How will I know if she's really learned from what she's done and wants to be back with me for the right reasons?


No. First you go file for divorce and get the temporary custody order. You must establish becoming the primary care giver for your children. Her leaving will be considered by the court as abandonment of her children and will work in your favor when trying to secure child support on their behalf as well as alimony. 

If you don't protect yourself legally you will be screwing yourself and you will have no one to blame but yourself. The courts are still biased against fathers and you will need every bit of evidence to support that you are the better parent to guard your children's best interests.

Forget about reconciliation that is far from happening at this point. Let her have a taste of reality and see how she likes it.


----------



## aug

morituri said:


> No. First you go file for divorce and get the temporary custody order. You must establish becoming the primary care giver for your children. Her leaving will be considered by the court as abandonment of her children and will work in your favor when trying to secure child support on their behalf as well as alimony.
> 
> If you don't protect yourself legally you will be screwing yourself and you will have no one to blame but yourself. The courts are still biased against fathers and you will need every bit of evidence to support that you are the better parent to guard your children's best interests.
> 
> Forget about reconciliation that is far from happening at this point. Let her have a taste of reality and see how she likes it.




The police was called last night(?) at the hotel and got involved. Did you get the police file number or the officer's name? The incident at the hotel with police involvement should be considered piece of evidence against your wife for abandonment.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Use your common sense , if and it's a big IF she shows remorse and agrees to the terms of marriage and a programme to rebuild the R , then have her home for Chrisrmas. If you chose not to give her a safe haven to talk to you and work things out then write your marriage off. There is a balance between being tough , playing hard ball and giving the opportunity to resolve the issues.

There is a further book "surviving an affair" by Harley that will give you guidance as to what to expect and what to do when confronting and dealing with an affair.

Your wife was on the streets sleeping in the car , if she is still out of the home tonight at least buy a bus or plane ticket and send her to her folks. How you behave today is what your children will remember. There is zero tolerance for the affair and your wife's adultery however your behaviour must be impeccable .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

aug said:


> The police was called last night(?) at the hotel and got involved. Did you get the police file number or the officer's name? The incident at the hotel with police involvement should be considered piece of evidence against your wife for abandonment.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

You must get a statement from the police officer that you talked too. Insurance if nothing else. Don't wait until he's forgotten about it.


----------



## Yardman

Seangar said:


> Lets say a week goes by, my wife has no where to live, misses her kids, has no money, Christmas is around the corner...and she wants to move back in and work on things. Would that be false reconciliation?
> 
> How will I know if she's really learned from what she's done and wants to be back with me for the right reas She was finally being selfish for the first time and loved it, the fun they had was like a drug for her. After this happened and I realized I was losing her I played it completely wrong. I tried to show her I could be the man she's always wanted, doing whatever I could to make her happy, essentially competing for her with this other man, taking her out on dates, moving out of state to work, etc...but none of that mattered b/c by this point she was already infatuated by this other man and lost her feelings for me. It also didn't help that I constantly talked to her about it. I should have been more of an alpha male from the moment I found out.


Trying to please her by being a "better husband" and making her "happy" didn't work. She was already checked out and "happy" with POSOM.

Focus on your kids and finding a job.

If she does show remorse and asks to R, then it is your call. Is this PA a deal breaker for you? You will need to set down terms for the R and have a way of verifing that she is living up to these terms. You will kinda be her marriage probation officer. Are you willing to do that?

All this R stuff is still a big IF.

Focus on finding a job and taking care of your kids


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## Yardman

Oh, read up the links at the bottom of morituri's posts


----------



## WhereAmI

Be careful about revealing your methods to OMW. You don't know her well enough to judge how she'll behave in a highly emotional situation. She may blurt out, "Sean put tracking on OWs cell! I can find you no matter WHERE you go with her." Naturally, OM would tell your wife and you'd lose one of your verifying tools.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadof3

yeah - not to mention he might get her another cell phone.


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## Dadof3

Voice Activated Recorders in your house (when you are out of town or away for several hours), her car

etc.


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## Dadof3

Seangar: I recommend that if she wants to come back home - you ask her the open ended question of what she is willing to do to get back in the home - and guess what - you get to decide if it is sufficient enough to justify. If she doesn't want to provide full transparency and honesty - no deal! etc.


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## Yardman

Soon, the kids will be wondering, "Where is Mommy?" How will you answer that?

Has your wife shown any interest in what her children are doing and how this has impacted them?


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## sadcalifornian

OM is likely to go back to his W, considering they have a little baby. So, WW has basically no future with him at this point. She seem to have been a wonderful, sacrificing wife and a mother all these years meaning if she comes around you may have a chance to rebuild your M. 

Anything is possible in life. As horrendous as this experience has been, if you are willing, why not? Give her time to cool down her head and see how things go. Don't overly humiliate her by rubbing this in her face. Be cordial and understanding, yet be firm with your demand of NC and remorse. She must take the ownership of her poor behavior no matter what shortcomings in your M is her excuse.


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## F-102

And don't forget: even if she never sees the POSOM again, there is more that likely to be a line of other men behind him who would LOVE to "spend a little time" with a barmaid.


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## sadcalifornian

F-102 said:


> And don't forget: even if she never sees the POSOM again, there is more that likely to be a line of other men behind him who would LOVE to "spend a little time" with a barmaid.


I agree. She must quit that job. For that, you must find a job pronto. This, you shoud do.


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## Yardman

F-102 said:


> And don't forget: even if she never sees the POSOM again, there is more that likely to be a line of other men behind him who would LOVE to "spend a little time" with a barmaid.


That is true. I've worked those place, mostly as a chef, and the atmosphere of waitress flirting to get tips does get out of hand, or perhaps into hand/mouth. A person needs to really trust a spouse that is banking on tips for an income.

" If you sit in a barber shop long enough, you will eventually get a haircut" An old AA saying about alkies hanging in a bar, but not drinking alcohol, just there for the commraderie. That's kinda like working in a bar where people are " just having a few after work", "hanging out with the girls and going to xyz afterward", and engaing in a cheating endorsing atmosphere.

Seangar, if you take back in, make no bar jobs part of the "R". A family dining job is different IMHO


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## Wolfgar

Oh yea, if we did R there would be zero chance of her working at the bar ever again, she was to weak of a person and our relationship wasn't nearly strong enough (especially with her constantly being faced with successful men while I didnt have a job)...but anyhow that's getting a head of myself. I'm not sure R is even possible at this point, she's scarred me for life and I'm not sure I can just forgive her for this. Especially last night, me and my two boys sitting in the parking lot while she's in a hotel with another man...not even having the courage to come out and talk to me. Not to mention at this point she still doesn't want to be with me, which will probably change after the fog clears (unless she does find another guy to take her married guys spot).

When I talked to her earlier about getting her stuff out, I told her I'm done caring for her, that she can get her shiiit out in the morning and go be with the married guy....I said they deserve each other (knowing that he's going back to his wife). I told her I wouldnt allow her to see the kids until she worked her problems out and started living a more stable life and saw a therapist. She started crying and think's I'm using the kids as a way to punish her. 

Anyone have any suggestions on how I can get the mental images out of my head? I got no sleep last night, I can't quit thinking about this shiiit.

Also, she will probably call me tonight...should I answer? Let her talk to the kids? Talk to her about anything? What do you guys suggest


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## Chaparral

Seangar said:


> Oh yea, if we did R there would be zero chance of her working at the bar ever again, she was to weak of a person and our relationship wasn't nearly strong enough (especially with her constantly being faced with successful men while I didnt have a job)...but anyhow that's getting a head of myself. I'm not sure R is even possible at this point, she's scarred me for life and I'm not sure I can just forgive her for this. Especially last night, me and my two boys sitting in the parking lot while she's in a hotel with another man...not even having the courage to come out and talk to me. Not to mention at this point she still doesn't want to be with me, which will probably change after the fog clears (unless she does find another guy to take her married guys spot).
> 
> When I talked to her earlier about getting her stuff out, I told her I'm done caring for her, that she can get her shiiit out in the morning and go be with the married guy....I said they deserve each other (knowing that he's going back to his wife). I told her I wouldnt allow her to see the kids until she worked her problems out and started living a more stable life and saw a therapist. She started crying and think's I'm using the kids as a way to punish her.
> 
> Anyone have any suggestions on how I can get the mental images out of my head? I got no sleep last night, I can't quit thinking about this shiiit.
> 
> Also, she will probably call me tonight...should I answer? Let her talk to the kids? Talk to her about anything? What do you guys suggest


Do not cut off communication yet. Unless you are trying to drive her away. Number one make sure she has someplace to stay. Do not behave as an A$$HOLE!

Go to the doctor, explain situation get meds tomorrow.


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## lordmayhem

I think you should let her talk to the kids at least, but keep your conversation with her strictly about finances and the children. There should not be any talk about fixing the marriage or why she did it, etc, not right now, not while shes with OM.


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## Wolfgar

The OM and his wife went to the hotel room and got all of his stuff out. She told me she looked for condom wrappers and didn't find anything (not that it matters), she said she truly believes they did not have sex...she said he came clean about everything (possibly trickle truth). My wife has been pretty convincing as well denying they have had sex, and like I said before...she's been pretty brutally honest about everything else. If they didn't have sexy last night, the only reason is b/c I showed up with our kids...she must have felt like the biggest worthless whorrre in the world. Anyhow, so he has moved out of the hotel...my gps is showing that she's there now probably wondering where all of his stuff has gone. She has still not called me and I have no intention of calling her. 

But still, more suggestions on what I should say...if anything...when she does call. I guess at this point, since the OM is out of the picture I have faith she'll eventually snap out of this...and I would be willing to give R a chance. How can I best do this? Using the "just let them go" approach is what I had in mind, but I dont really want to push her further away either.


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## sadcalifornian

First, listen to her. Figure out what she wants. If she shows any interest in R, then suggest going to MC. That would buy you time to think more about what you want and observe how she acts. If she insists on D, then it would be a different story.


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## morituri

Please stop this 'I don't want to push her' nonsense. Nobody, including she, does anything unless they truly want to. Just like you, she has free will as thus free to choose what she wants.

Keep on improving yourself for your own benefit (i.e. Get a job (even a sh!tty one for the time being), download a free copy of 'No More Mr Nice Guy (click on the link below signature) do the 180, the 'Just Let Them Go', etc.). If she takes notice and starts making baby steps towards you, then you can respond in kind. And even if she doesn't want anything to do with you and the divorce proceeds and you go your separate ways, you are going to be a very attractive man to a lot of women.


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## golfergirl

chapparal said:


> Do not cut off communication yet. Unless you are trying to drive her away. Number one make sure she has someplace to stay. Do not behave as an A$$HOLE!
> 
> Go to the doctor, explain situation get meds tomorrow.



I disagree with making sure she has place to stay. She has parents, she has options. Not his call unless she makes a move to R. She doesn't want him anymore.
Sean, I'd be very worried that her remorse at this point would have nothing to do with you - everything to do with desperation. Remember who she chose 24 hours ago.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

golfergirl said:


> I disagree with making sure she has place to stay. She has parents, she has options. Not his call unless she makes a move to R. She doesn't want him anymore.
> Sean, I'd be very worried that her remorse at this point would have nothing to do with you - everything to do with desperation. Remember who she chose 24 hours ago.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well actually she had been kicked out without any money 24 hrs ago and so was other man. Things kind of fell into place.


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## Wolfgar

She called to talk to the kids, I let her. My 8 year old asked her why she was with that other man last night. My 4 year old told her he missed her and asked her when she was coming home. By the time I got on the phone she was crying, I told her I hope she's doing alright, that I still love her and if she needs someone to talk to I'm here....I said have a goodnight...bye. (Do you think I was to soft?) I didn't ask her about where she was, if she was with him, or anything else. Anyhow, this was all at 8:30, I haven't heard from her since. I think tonight is the first night the fogs perhaps starting to clear.

I'm not positive where she is right now, I'm pretty sure she's staying at one of her girlfriends


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## morituri

Seangar said:


> I told her I hope she's doing alright, that I still love her and if she needs someone to talk to I'm here....I said have a goodnight...bye. (Do you think I was to soft?)


:wtf:

It seems clear that you do want to take our advice. So be it. Good luck, I'm out of here.


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## SadSamIAm

Yes you were too soft. You should have not talked to her at all. Certainly no "I love you". 

You might as well have said come back home until you find someone new to screw. She needs to feel consequences for cheating. Not rewarded.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wolfgar

Morituri don't be like that, your advice has helped tremendously. I'm honestly worried about her, like I said earlier she's not all that stable, I dont even know if she's taking her meds. I dont want her realizing she's destroyed her life and killing herself. After I said that to her I honestly did regret it, I guess I'll have to work on holding back my feelings and giving her tough love.

But alright, I get it...no more of that


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## sadcalifornian

I think you handled it OK, although not perfect. Don't try to shame her with hotel incident, but don't try to be too nice to her. This will backfire. I say, just be cordial and show affection in a controlled manner. Use the kids card carefully, which is also a big factor now. 

You show her just enough room so that she can ask to come back, but it has to be her conviction to come back to you. She is not in a state of mind where she can reciprocate your niceness. She is just confused and devastated not knowing what to do. Don't try to force the outcome you want. Instead, just listen to what she says carefully. When she states her desire to R, you give her that option. But, don't try to lecture her or shame her or even "nice" her to make her come back. Such approach would be very risky. Just hold your tongue and try to listen to what she says. Let her talk. Save your words.


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## Yardman

Seangar said:


> She called to talk to the kids, I let her. My 8 year old asked her why she was with that other man last night. My 4 year old told her he missed her and asked her when she was coming home. By the time I got on the phone she was crying, I told her I hope she's doing alright, that I still love her and if she needs someone to talk to I'm here....I said have a goodnight...bye. (Do you think I was to soft?) I didn't ask her about where she was, if she was with him, or anything else. Anyhow, this was all at 8:30, I haven't heard from her since. I think tonight is the first night the fogs perhaps starting to clear.
> 
> I'm not positive where she is right now, I'm pretty sure she's staying at one of her girlfriends


It is good to hear that she eventually cares about her kids.


You are acting as dog sheet on the porch and just hoping she ain't offended that she stepped all over you. You are apologizing for for any offence on your part.


YES, YOU WERE TOO SOFT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Buy some garbage bags and stuff her sheet in them. Toss them out into the yard. I'd have tossed her crap into the yard without the plastic. Remember their going to a pharamacy before the motel.....


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## warlock07

What you project of your wife to us does not match to what she is actually doing. Either you are in 

1)UTTER UTTER denial, or 
2)your wife has changed completely in a couple of months. 

I would pick the former. I think you are in a big denial. I can only say that don't be the second fiddle. Don't be waiting around while she goes around making her mistakes. 

I'm also confused about the sex part. You wife said they messed around and he denied it completely to his wife. He also said that he would end it when he talked to you remember? No condoms does not prove anything. Actually it proves something much worse. Stop believing your wife for now.(Maybe you can get her to confess saying that the OM confessed to the wife.) She might have been a good one for 95% of the marriage but she isn't one now. Assume that the marriage has ended and work from there. The moment the OM gives up his wife, she will go back running to him. 

Have you posted him on cheaterville?


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## warlock07

> . I think tonight is the first night the fogs perhaps starting to clear.





> ..when she does call. I guess at this point, since the OM is out of the picture I have faith she'll eventually snap out of this...and I would be willing to give R a chance.


No no no!! Don't even think about it Seangar. Its not the OM that is the problem. It's your wife. It is her indifference to you and your feelings. It is utter disrespect to you. Nothing will be fixed until that changes. R would be a good thing but I wouldn't be waiting if I were you. Think about it. How far would you have to go(indifference, disrespect) to do the same thing to your wife? How less should you think of her to subject her to such misery and pain?

Edit: In my dream, Sean hooks up with the OM's wife and sends him some pics. A man can dream, can't he?


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## morituri

I understand your concern. My ex-wife tried to commit suicide a few months ago and was institutionalized to a psychiatric hospital by her parents. When the news got to me, I grieved and felt guilty. You see, unlike your wife, my then wife cried hysterically on her hands and knees begging me to forgive her. But the video I found of her and the OM engaging in sexual acts was simply too much for me to bear. I made the excruciatingly painful decision to divorce her, not because I no longer loved her - God knows I loved her so much - but because my personal recovery could not take place being with her. 

My therapist told me that I was not responsible for the issues that drove my ex-wife to try to end her life. You are also not responsible for your wife's issues that have caused her to make self destructive choices. It's hard to accept this but nevertheless it is true.


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## MrK

Seangar said:


> My 8 year old asked her why she was with that other man last night.


Yeah, he was too soft. But cut him some slack. Anyone ever hear their 8 year old ask their mother/father a question like that?


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## turnera

You need to write out a list of what you would require before you'd let her come back. Do it now while you're still logical - when she starts begging you and using your soft spots against you, you will cave. Keep a copy of the list with you at all times. Read it every day. If she ever calls and talks about coming home, whip out the list and read it to her. Tell her that when she has accomplished everything on the list to let you know. Until then, you are moving on.


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## turnera

The list will include such things as:
Write OM a No Contact letter that YOU read, approve, and send yourself.
Find a MC and set up the first appointment.
Give you passwords to all electronic devices she owns so you can verify NC - with OM or any OTHER man.
Tell her parents the truth of what she did - in front of you.

You may include other things such as signing a postnup agreement so if she cheats again, she forgoes any rights to y'all's assets, or arranging for a polygraph so you can get the REAL truth, not the one she's feeding you now.


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## Almostrecovered

to add-

std test

she must understand that you will have triggers and bouts of anger for 2-5 years regarding the infidelity and must do what she needs to help you thru it

spend 10-15 hours a week of alone time with each other


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## Shaggy

How has today been?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wolfgar

Hey guys, sorry to keep you waiting

Today she came over to see the kids and get her things. She said, "it's good to know you guys are all doing really well (as in without her)". We talked for a while, she basically feels worthless after getting thrown out like garbage by the OM and her infatuation is gone. She's still pretty numb and in a fog, but I already notice the change. If I told her I wanted to work on things, I feel like she would definitely be all about it at this point...luckily I know better after reading on these forums. Before R can even be considered I think she needs to feel the pain of what she's done, I want her to beg me to come back and truly feel remorse. It's hard enough on me, feeling like her back up option...after he's done with her, she comes back to me. She's feeling it out it seems, saying thing's like, "there's no way you could ever forgive me", to see what my response is. I said, "ya, I dunno...I'm not sure I can, but I still care about you". 

Her and the OM talked today, she told me that he basically told her that his time with her was the most amazing time in his life and that he wants to be with her and not his wife, but he's not going to give up his kids. And that his kids are the only reason he's staying with his wife (sounds like he's still trying to keep her on the side). My wife told him that it was over, she didn't want to see him ever again, not to call her, not to come up to her work. 

On the flip side, his wife told me he was crying to her, begging her to take him back. Telling her that he's so disgusted with himself and that he would take it all back if he could. I also let my wife know that after talking to his wife, he's made her out to be just a bar whoorrre who pursued him (which is'nt necessarily true). 

She's gonna call in a while to say good night to the boys and talk to me, what do you guys think I should say? I'm open to trying MC and R, how to I express this without being "soft". I have been holding back a lot of my feelings when we talked earlier and it's been a struggle. I'm trying my best to be alpha. What do you guys suggest?

I like the list idea too, of things that have to happen for R to work.
1. she needs therapy
2. open about everything
3. she needs to find a new job
4. she needs to stop smoking (she started after workin at that bar)
5. std test
any thing i'm missing?


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## Chaparral

Hope she figures out what little he really wanted her for. Thats just what a player would say.


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## gearhead65

I'll give this a go. You can't change her or make any of this better. She's going to do what she does and you have to choose how to respond. You need to respond from a place of power not desperation. Go and file tomorrow. Get a temporary order of protection and serve her with the papers at her work. You can't nice your way through this. Take it from someone who knows. I was nice and now I'm having to fight for custody and live with my wife, while she's seeing someone else. You don't want to be in that position.

Read as much as you can and see a therapist yourself. You're going to need it.

*Edit* 
After reading your post here is what I would do. Let her talk and you listen. In this situation it is information warfare, don't give her anything concrete or get into the What If's scenarios. Don't let her anticipate your next move. Be nice and pleasant to talk to hear her out, but don't even attempt to console her. Filling for divorce will make your intentions crystal clear and bring this to a head. Don't drag it out and let her get comfortable with everything. You are in a great position with her being out of the house which ever way it goes. If you file now you can drop it/extend it, but you'll have the upper hand. If she comes home after it won't matter much.


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## sadcalifornian

Save your words. Let her make the initiative of wanting to come back to you. This is the least she owes to you considering what she has done. Also, if you offer R to her too soon too easily, your good intention can easily backfire into helping her taking offensive position all of a sudden. Blaming you for her A and many other shortcomings in your M pre-A. 

Let her talk at least twice as much as you do. Just listen to her. Try using your feelers to your best and read between the lines carefully and respond carefully. 

You know what you want, which is R. But, do not make this obvious. This is a tricky time.


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## sadcalifornian

When she makes her intention clear in wanting to R, just tell her that you are willing to try. Save your words. Because of the hotel incident, she already knows she put herself in an awful position. You can vent your anger and frustration later when the situation is a bit more stable.


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## Wolfgar

Yea I'm not going to make it obvious. The problem is she's got a ton of things going through her head, she's still in the fog, she just lost her OM today, his wife's txting her about what a home wrecker she is, she feels worthless...so I'm not sure she's at the point of wanting to talk about things. She needs time to process everything and I guess I just have to hold out until she initiates it (I 1000% agree here). I feel like in her current state I could either push her away or let her know we still have a chance. If she feels like there's no way I could possibly forgive her and that I hate her, she'll just give up and not try probably.

So how do I treat her/talk to her, in her current state?


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## lordmayhem

Gee....it hurts getting thrown under the bus.

Like the 180 says, be cheerful and confident, but non committal.


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## gearhead65

Be willing to listen, to a point. You need to exude self-confidence. I had someone tell me something in the beginning that didn't make sense until recently. "You need to love them not need them." I.E. You're going to be fine. Your kids are going to be fine, With/Or without her. If you are getting tired of talking to her then just tell her that. If she starts into a big sob story or about what you did/didn't do to cause all of it don't listen to that. She's going to want to tear you down because of how bad she feels. Don't believe any of it. Be cool, be confident, don't put up with any crap, and don't blow up at her. You need to come off as an emotional rock.


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## bangun

I think you are still in the fog. will be better if you follow morituri advice.


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## SadSamIAm

I have a feeling that you are going to have a hard time being tough with her. I think you should listen. Not say anything other than you have some big decisions to make. 

You will be better off cutting the call short and keeping her guessing than to soften up and show her all your cards. 

Be polite, listen and then say goodbye. No I love you. No I miss you. Nothing to show weakness.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wolfgar

Agreed, I think I'll stick with the 180 sticky. I need to be confident, let her know I love her, but I'm perfectly fine moving on without her. She started listing reasons why this all happened, about how I never did anything to help her and let her carry all the burden...I probably didn't respond how I should have. I basically said that I thought we were happy and she didn't communicate to me what problems we had or how she felt...and if she did, I would have did whatever it took to make her happy. She tried saying that she shouldn't have had to tell me, blah blah. I told her she needs to step up and take responsibility for what she's done and stop trying to justify everything, because there is no excuse.

I think when she calls, I'm just going to give my kids the phone. If she wants to talk to me she will tell them to put me on the phone after she's done talking to them. If she doesn't ask to speak with me, we won't be talking at all. If we do talk, I'll be letting her do all the talking


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## gearhead65

Actually, that was EXACTLY what you should have said. Well done! We're not mind readers and we can't be expected to be.


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## warlock07

> Her and the OM talked today, she told me that he basically told her that his time with her was the most amazing time in his life and that he wants to be with her and not his wife, but he's not going to give up his kids. And that his kids are the only reason he's staying with his wife (sounds like he's still trying to keep her on the side). My wife told him that it was over, she didn't want to see him ever again, not to call her, not to come up to her work.
> 
> On the flip side, his wife told me he was crying to her, begging her to take him back. Telling her that he's so disgusted with himself and that he would take it all back if he could. I also let my wife know that after talking to his wife, he's made her out to be just a bar whoorrre who pursued him (which is'nt necessarily true).



It isn't still over. She is still being manipulated/influenced by the OM. You are not rescuing or saving her her when she is doing it on her own accord. The OM can still prey upon you marriage when he wants to. Did you tell his wife what he told her? That SOB. How dare he do that when you still there. I don't think I could have restrained myself in such a situation. He is trying to destroy your family that POS ...Your wife is in no position for R. She will try a little and relapse again. 

I am quoting this again.

* How far would you have to go(indifference, disrespect) to do the same thing to your wife? How less should you think of her to subject her to such misery and pain? Again and again
*

The affair ended because it had to in the present circumstances and not because she wanted to end it. Please don't even think about R for quite some time. 
The moment his marriage fails or things calm down, the OM would be back.Remember that you wife told you earlier that she never wanted to be a home wrecker/not that kind of person bull$hit and she is stopping it to give the marriage a chance. But she lied. What makes you think it would be different this time?


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## the guy

Your putting to much emotion in your convos, I know its tough but be indifferent, and state the facts in the things she needs to do for you.

Sure she feelss bad and you naturally want to console her...STOP. You are the one hurt and its not about her and how low she feels, as indiferently as possible just tell her the facts. The NC LETTER, quiting her job, thats #1, then IC and MC, she makes the appoint ment. Welcome her home with these term 

Again the line was drawn and she crossed it the night at the hotel, but you still want to R, so make her do the work. Until then go dark.

The 2nd message from her should say " I quit my job, I wrote the NC letter, can I come home so you can read it" Until you hear this stay dark.


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## Wolfgar

warlock07 said:


> The affair ended because it had to in the present circumstances and not because she wanted to end it. Please don't even think about R for quite some time.


I agree, the OM being forced to fix things with his wife is why it ended. If it was up to my wife, they would still be seeing each other drowning in their infatuation (and that's hard for me to deal with honestly). The one positive in all this is that she now feels like complete trash...he so easily threw her away like nothing and I believe it's woken her up. Her feelings have immediately changed for him from good to bad. I'm not sure how much of a threat the OM is now...his wife has a pretty tight leash on him now, all of his passwords, phone access, gps, she told him if he goes to her work again or contacts her at all she's done with him. If I have any threat at all it would be a new rebound guy, but I doubt she's looking to jump into a relationship immediately following this disaster. 

I haven't told his wife about how he told mine that he wants to be with her and he would if it wasn't for his kids. I feel like she deserves to know, but if I do tell her there's a strong chance she will kick him out and we're back to square one...then he begins pursuing my wife again (sometimes I wish we lived a few hundred years ago where men could take care of these problems personally). Perhaps after I see where things are going with me and my wife I will let her know what a POS her husband is. 

Tonight I let her talk to the kids, then I got on the phone and I told her to have a good night and bye. As much as I want to talk with her about things, this is not the right time. It is a constant struggle, but one I must deal with. I'm not contacting her, if she wants to talk she will contact me. I'm not starting a conversation about any of this, unless she starts it. 

I've been reading the book "tough love" tonight and man I wish I would have had it about a month ago. I did everything wrong.


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## MrK

You did everything you need to with the OM's wife. You are exactly right. You don't want him kicked out of his house right now.


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## sadcalifornian

I agree that it would be counterproductive to agravate the situation by revealing unnecesary details to OMW at this point. The hotel incident was devastating enough for her. Be patient and wait for her to make the decision by herself. There is a chance that she will ask for D, but then with children in picture, it would be a close call on her part. You can deal with it with a different strategy if she decides to play that card. 

In the meantime, do what you can to find yourself a job so that you can make yourself more attractive to your W. A lawyer may advise you against it as it would work against getting the maximum CS or alimony, but that would be a cheap shot, IMHO.


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## Dadof3

Folks - Not sure I agree with Sean NOT telling OMW about OM convo with W.

Affairs flourish with lies - and quite frankly - I agree with warlock above in the above "it aint over". I know you don't want them flocking back together, but - jeez, why not - they deserve each other at this point. But, that's not why I disagree though...

OM will continue to predate the otherwise "over" marriage as long as he gets to be two-faced with his W. She kicks him out and hits him hard where it hurts (in the checkbook) - that will make him get his **** straight if he's really serious. I mean, common - as long as he regards Sean's W as Plan B. she'll regard Sean as Plan B. This is the way Sean's W can demonstrate her willingness to change with OM free to take her back in. This would be a great test. If she's gonna fail, she won't be back. Sean has nothing to lose at this point, and gives her a chance to rebuild some credibility, while at the same time, making OM put his money where his mouth is.

Who has more credibility with OMW than Sean does at this point? He IS in a position of power, if he uses it correctly.


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## Eli-Zor

Dadof3 said:


> Folks - Not sure I agree with Sean NOT telling OMW about OM convo with W.
> 
> Affairs flourish with lies - and quite frankly - I agree with warlock above in the above "it aint over". I know you don't want them flocking back together, but - jeez, why not - they deserve each other at this point. But, that's not why I disagree though...
> 
> OM will continue to predate the otherwise "over" marriage as long as he gets to be two-faced with his W. She kicks him out and hits him hard where it hurts (in the checkbook) - that will make him get his **** straight if he's really serious. I mean, common - as long as he regards Sean's W as Plan B. she'll regard Sean as Plan B. This is the way Sean's W can demonstrate her willingness to change with OM free to take her back in. This would be a great test. If she's gonna fail, she won't be back. Sean has nothing to lose at this point, and gives her a chance to rebuild some credibility, while at the same time, making OM put his money where his mouth is.
> 
> Who has more credibility with OMW than Sean does at this point? He IS in a position of power, if he uses it correctly.


Agree, tell the OM's wife truth of what he said to your wife, she can then decide. It give you a better option for the future , you cannot ever reconcile with your wife with his parting message. He must be exposed as a preditor and will have to prove he "loves" your wife or was lying.

Further advice for his wife is for him to hand write a no contact letter to your wife clearly stating he wants no contact and has never loved her . 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sadcalifornian

Well, I think each situation is unique. In this case, Sean does not have a job, and I am afraid to say this, but this may be the part of the reason of why she felt burned out of her M. Even with OM out of the picture, the M itself has to be attractive enough for W to come back to. If she indeed had already set her mind to leave the M regardless of this A, then she may well ask for D. 

I think in this particular case it would be better not to disrupt things any further until his W decides what she wants to do.


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## warlock07

Sean, is your wife aware of what OM told his wife about her? I'm not sure if your wife would believe you completely when you told her that the OM projected her as a bar whorre in front of his wife. 
You wife most likely still has feelings for him. Eventually when the other marriage breaks down, sooner or later, he will be preying on your wife. If you reconcile now and try to work it out and she leaves/strays when he comes back into the picture, it would be false R all this time. If she stays committed now, then you will know for sure that you are not the back up option, you can work this out and R is something that is worth it.

I hope I' making sense her. I'll rephrase . If she chooses R now when the OM is out there trying to steal her, then there is a chance to this marriage.

I'm also confused about what you said happened in the hotel? There was no PA presumably but did they mess around??


@Sad_californian Have you noticed the difference between SAHD and SAHM. You are seen as a loser when you are SAHD while it isn't in case of a SAHM.


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## sadcalifornian

warlock07 said:


> @Sad_californian Have you noticed the difference between SAHD and SAHM. You are seen as a loser when you are SAHD while it isn't in case of a SAHM.


Yeah, tell me about it. It's so unfair and a great injustice. The society still has a way to go to establish the true gender-equal society. But, for now, it is what it is. What can we do? 

Instead of trying to persuade women to see SAHD in better light, maybe we men should just learn to despise SAHM, to make things fair?


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## Kaincops

southern wife your right haha
and bhai sona chod de bhar mauj le sali apne ap bhag jayegi bhen ki lodi haha.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem

sadcalifornian said:


> Yeah, tell me about it. It's so unfair and a great injustice. The society still has a way to go to establish the true gender-equal society. But, for now, it is what it is. What can we do?
> 
> Instead of trying to persuade women to see SAHD in better light, maybe we men should just learn to despise SAHM, to make things fair?


:iagree:

Just like in this thread in the Men's Clubhouse:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/35507-not-nice-guy-but-how-would-you-handle.html


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## Locard

There will never be true gender equality in that sense, our brains cannot be rewired, sad but true.


----------



## Shaggy

Sean realize that your wife's current feelings aren't those of a wife who trashed her own marriage.

They are the feelings a little girl has when her boyfriend dumps her. She hates him. She's feeling terrible that she wasn't a good enough woman to keep him. She's thinking if she just was better to him, he would have choose her.

You know all those things you've been thinking about why she left you for this looser OM?

when she says she hates him - she hates how he dumped her. She would take him back right now if he showed up.

that's why you need to tell her what the OM told his wife about her being just another bar wh0re. You also need to let your wife know that you are continuing to talk to the OMW. She needs to understand that you aren't a push over any more.

You've done very well fighting this. You've proven how very effective bringing the OMW into the fold really helps, especially early in the affair. 

Now don't mess it up by returning to being the guy who begged his wife to stay, and tried to be more nice, and who gave her a back rub.

Be the guy who will take her back, but only on his terms, and without accepting any crap from her. She comes back, to the marriage as a choice - not as an option. No fence sitting, no time to think. If she wants time, she'll have lots of it after the divorce while she's working to pay alimony and child support.

Playing hardball is the only thing that has worked so far. Remember that can keep up your game.


----------



## F-102

And, she hates that her "two-for-the-price-of-one" fantasy came crashing down.


----------



## morituri

Seangar others have told you the truth, your wife is addicted to the OM because of the infatuation chemicals in her brain. Seldom does any woman, married or single, gives BJ to another man without having some emotional investment in that man. It is part of the 'fog' and she will need to go through a withdrawal period to flush out those 'in love' chemicals inside her head. The only way this withdrawal can take place is for her to commit to NC (no contact) with the OM FOREVER, *willingly*. Without NC your marriage has no hope for R and you may as well just go file for divorce. 

So far she has broken her promise to you as far as NC, how many chances are you willing to give her before you open your eyes and move on? Do not allow your own fog to make you a victim of wishful thinking.


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## Wolfgar

Exposing the OM to his wife is/was KEY! I wish I would have made a harder effort the moment I found out. I could have escaped a lot of pain and begun the process of waking her up much earlier. Instead I basically competed with him by taking her out on dates, I stood no chance while she still felt that way for him. If he was out of the picture in the beginning, those date nights would have had a MUCH bigger impact and made her realize we still can have fun.

Getting a job is huge and it would definitely make me much more attractive to her. When she came over and the house was spotless (far from normal with her living there) and both the kids in school, I think it hit her…wow he can get by without me and he’s doing a pretty good job at it. 

My wife is aware that the OM told his wife about her, like I said I made it perfectly clear to my wife that he was throwing her under the bus to his wife making it seem like the she was the one pursuing him. This pissed my wife off and she gave me more ammo to give to his wife to show what a slim ball he was. “Well did you tell her that on our first date he wanted to get a hotel room and have sex”, I said yes, “I told her that. I told her that before all of this you were a great mother and wife”. Although when my wife told me about their phone call yesterday, when she broke it off for good…she originally didn’t want to tell me the details about what he said. That he said he wishes he could be with her but he can’t leave his wife b/c of the kids (wife will take his kids if he isn’t with her)…she asked me not to tell his wife. She told me this b/c I would say ya you called him to break it off after he ran back to his wife? That makes no sense. That’s when she told me about what he said to her, her telling him to never call her again or go up to her work or she’d have him kicked out was her response to that. The OM’s wife and I do agree that this was more of an emotional affair, by the sounds of it they did do a lot of talking about their marriages and they were just both lost in the excitement of being with a new person. 

As for the hotel, about 2 min. after they got there I went up to the front desk and had them call his room so I could go up, the front desk asked who I was, I told him to tell him “lisa” (his wifes name). They asked him if he wanted me to come up, he said no. So at that point he must have been shiiiting bricks, but he didn’t tell my wife about it. She only knew I was there about 40 min. later when the cops went to there room (the hotel was calling them on me, so I called them too and told them I thought my wife was under the influence of something and in a hotel room with another man). I think after she knew her kids and me were in the parking lot she felt like a complete whooore and it probably killed the mood. He told his wife that he was just being a good guy, my wife didn’t have money or a place to stay, so he let her stay with him but made her sleep on the couch. My wife told me what I think is the truth. She said she took a shower when they first got back, got naked in front of him to tease him while she was changing into her pjs. She said they did sleep in the same bed and mostly talked, she said they kissed and petted (she felt his diccck through is pants she said). Like before, she was pretty detailed about everything. I guess it doesn’t really matter to me at this point what they did.

Shaggy- I do realize her feelings, she feels worthless…she’s thrown everything away for this infatuation and now its gone. She has a rude awakening a head of her. She understood from the beginning that he wasn’t going to leave his wife (she told me so), but she was still willing to be his mysterious to keep the excitement they shared going…perhaps that makes it even worse. I have made it perfectly clear how he is making her seem to his wife (like a home wrecking bar whoore). I have NO intention of returning to the nice guy, trying to talk to her about everything and taking her on dates (especially no back rubs, wtf was I thinking). As for her coming back, I think she feels like what she did is unforgiveable, that I am disgusted in her, that I feel like her second option, and she feels like I want nothing to do with her right now. If she feels that way it seems like she would just save herself the pain and move on…why be with a guy that feels that way about you? I need to let her know I love her and would be willing to work on things…without directly saying it. 

Morituri- Sorry to hear about you’re infidelity story, sounds like a nightmare. That withdrawal period is where we’re at now; I’m letting her have her space to figure things out. Trying my hardest not to initiate conversation. She has a million emotions flowing through her head right now, she hasn’t even begun to understand or take accountability for what she’s done yet. I asked her why she ended it with him (even though he basically did), she said because she wants her kids back in her life…that she doesn’t want to lose them. I honestly believe she is committing to NC with the OM, she seems like she’s had enough…but she was honestly committed to it the first time after I found out, unfortunately the temptation was still there and she was too weak (I think its different this time around now that his wife knows and is keeping him in line). How many chances? I suppose this would be the last one…and I’m not doing anything to go out of my way to give her that chance. If she wants it, she’s going to have to do the heavy lifting.


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## Dadof3

Fact remains, Sean, you need to let OMW know what OM said to your W, even if she asked you not to. She made promises before God and all to be faithful and true to you at all times - she broke that. You need to explain to her that part of "working it out" includes full disclosure and visibility to you and no promises on your part for everything. This is what a path to R looks like. She doesn't get a say, except for if she decides its NOT for her and she wants to move on.


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## turnera

Don't tell her you're willing to work on it. Ask her why you should consider it. Make her make a case for it.


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## Chaparral

Sounds like a good plan to me but I'm no expert. Good luck and prayers Sean. Keep posting.


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## Chaparral

Dadof3 said:


> Fact remains, Sean, you need to let OMW know what OM said to your W, even if she asked you not to. She made promises before God and all to be faithful and true to you at all times - she broke that. You need to explain to her that part of "working it out" includes full disclosure and visibility to you and no promises on your part for everything. This is what a path to R looks like. She doesn't get a say, except for if she decides its NOT for her and she wants to move on.


I would question whether or not this would be productive. I would stay in contact with OMW. 

At this point the last thing I would want is to get OMW so pi$$ed she kicks the OM out. It looks like Sean has things going his way for now and needs to be patient.


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## Yardman

I can see the pros and cons of telling OMW about what OM told W

Where is your W staying? A hotel?


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## Wolfgar

Yardman said:


> I can see the pros and cons of telling OMW about what OM told W
> 
> Where is your W staying? A hotel?


With her father (go back to page 21 and read my update)


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## Yardman

sorry, I missed that part. 

That's good, it's doubtful OM will be as likely to show up at her Dad's house as he would at a hotel room.

Has she comitted to quitting the bar job or quit it? That would be a positive thing...


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## Wolfgar

Yardman said:


> sorry, I missed that part.
> 
> That's good, it's doubtful OM will be as likely to show up at her Dad's house as he would at a hotel room.
> 
> Has she comitted to quitting the bar job or quit it? That would be a positive thing...


Nope in her eyes she has lost everything, me, her family, and now her lover. She has no money, so she has no intention of quiting this job. If we eventually R I'm sure she'd have no problem leaving it. That's a big IF though


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## Yardman

I hope she gets her sh!t together and comes back to you showing true remorse and is willing to do what you feel is necessary for R.

Have you made a list of what you'd require from her for R? If so is she aware of the terms? I can understand why you would not have made her aware of terms yet


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## Wolfgar

Yardman said:


> I hope she gets her sh!t together and comes back to you showing true remorse and is willing to do what you feel is necessary for R.
> 
> Have you made a list of what you'd require from her for R? If so is she aware of the terms? I can understand why you would not have made her aware of terms yet


Yes i've made a list, but no I have not let her know about it yet. Going to give her a week at least to see what its like being out of the house, being away from me and the kids. Plus she needs time to herself to figure **** out. I don't want to give her my terms until I'm convinced she's truly sorry and wants to be together. Today has been tough, I guess everythings starting to hit me. It's painful as F thinking about what she's done to me and my boys...I'm getting feelings of extreme anger.


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## Yardman

Your plan sounds solid. 
The anger is normal. Hope you can deal with it ok. Physical excercise helps. Are you sleeping and eating ok?


----------



## Dadof3

Seangar said:


> Exposing the OM to his wife is/was KEY! I wish I would have made a harder effort the moment I found out. I could have escaped a lot of pain and begun the process of waking her up much earlier. Instead I basically competed with him by taking her out on dates, I stood no chance while she still felt that way for him. If he was out of the picture in the beginning, those date nights would have had a MUCH bigger impact and made her realize we still can have fun.
> 
> Getting a job is huge and it would definitely make me much more attractive to her. When she came over and the house was spotless (far from normal with her living there) and both the kids in school, I think it hit her…wow he can get by without me and he’s doing a pretty good job at it.
> 
> My wife is aware that the OM told his wife about her, like I said I made it perfectly clear to my wife that he was throwing her under the bus to his wife making it seem like the she was the one pursuing him. This pissed my wife off and she gave me more ammo to give to his wife to show what a slim ball he was. “Well did you tell her that on our first date he wanted to get a hotel room and have sex”, I said yes, “I told her that. I told her that before all of this you were a great mother and wife”. Although when my wife told me about their phone call yesterday, when she broke it off for good…she originally didn’t want to tell me the details about what he said. That he said he wishes he could be with her but he can’t leave his wife b/c of the kids (wife will take his kids if he isn’t with her)…she asked me not to tell his wife. She told me this b/c I would say ya you called him to break it off after he ran back to his wife? That makes no sense. That’s when she told me about what he said to her, her telling him to never call her again or go up to her work or she’d have him kicked out was her response to that. The OM’s wife and I do agree that this was more of an emotional affair, by the sounds of it they did do a lot of talking about their marriages and they were just both lost in the excitement of being with a new person.
> 
> As for the hotel, about 2 min. after they got there I went up to the front desk and had them call his room so I could go up, the front desk asked who I was, I told him to tell him “lisa” (his wifes name). They asked him if he wanted me to come up, he said no. So at that point he must have been shiiiting bricks, but he didn’t tell my wife about it. She only knew I was there about 40 min. later when the cops went to there room (the hotel was calling them on me, so I called them too and told them I thought my wife was under the influence of something and in a hotel room with another man). I think after she knew her kids and me were in the parking lot she felt like a complete whooore and it probably killed the mood. He told his wife that he was just being a good guy, my wife didn’t have money or a place to stay, so he let her stay with him but made her sleep on the couch. My wife told me what I think is the truth. She said she took a shower when they first got back, got naked in front of him to tease him while she was changing into her pjs. She said they did sleep in the same bed and mostly talked, she said they kissed and petted (she felt his diccck through is pants she said). Like before, she was pretty detailed about everything. I guess it doesn’t really matter to me at this point what they did.
> 
> Shaggy- I do realize her feelings, she feels worthless…she’s thrown everything away for this infatuation and now its gone. She has a rude awakening a head of her. She understood from the beginning that he wasn’t going to leave his wife (she told me so), but she was still willing to be his mysterious to keep the excitement they shared going…perhaps that makes it even worse. I have made it perfectly clear how he is making her seem to his wife (like a home wrecking bar whoore). I have NO intention of returning to the nice guy, trying to talk to her about everything and taking her on dates (especially no back rubs, wtf was I thinking). As for her coming back, I think she feels like what she did is unforgiveable, that I am disgusted in her, that I feel like her second option, and she feels like I want nothing to do with her right now. If she feels that way it seems like she would just save herself the pain and move on…why be with a guy that feels that way about you? I need to let her know I love her and would be willing to work on things…without directly saying it.
> 
> Morituri- Sorry to hear about you’re infidelity story, sounds like a nightmare. That withdrawal period is where we’re at now; I’m letting her have her space to figure things out. Trying my hardest not to initiate conversation. She has a million emotions flowing through her head right now, she hasn’t even begun to understand or take accountability for what she’s done yet. I asked her why she ended it with him (even though he basically did), she said because she wants her kids back in her life…that she doesn’t want to lose them. I honestly believe she is committing to NC with the OM, she seems like she’s had enough…but she was honestly committed to it the first time after I found out, unfortunately the temptation was still there and she was too weak (I think its different this time around now that his wife knows and is keeping him in line). How many chances? I suppose this would be the last one…and I’m not doing anything to go out of my way to give her that chance. If she wants it, she’s going to have to do the heavy lifting.


So your W pretty much threw herself at him again in the hotel. Niiiiccccee!


----------



## Wolfgar

Dadof3 said:


> So your W pretty much threw herself at him again in the hotel. Niiiiccccee!


Well ya, what do you expect two people to do in a hotel? Trust me it's def hard to deal with and think about. 

Just found an old email she sent to me from back in the day, 8 years ago when I was alpha, funny how things can change. 

"hey Sean, i just wanted to tell you that i love you and good night, and i want u to know that if you just dont feel like talking to me that i'd rather you tell me that then tell me your tired and your going to bed and then you really just go online, it hurts my feelings. I just wanted to let you know how i feel. and i know we're on a "break" but i really miss you and i really wanted to just cuddle with you tonight, and none of that could really happen so i wanted to talk to you, and it just seems like your losing intrest or something because lately you dont even want to talk to me. I dont like feeling not wanted and thats exactly how i've been feeling. And if thats the case then just let me know and i'll back off, it seems like maybe you want your space, i dont know. Your going to have to tell me because you've been sending me mixed signals. Well i'm going to bed now. I love you. good night Sean"


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## Dadof3

Not trying to upset you Sean - just trying to point out that, even though she's out of the house and said a LOT of things to you about telling OM not to see her again, etc, you will only be able to judge her willingness to R (if she begs) by her actions. Her actions the other night demonstrate desperation and disregard for the consequences administered for her prior actions. 

I know if my W did stuff like that to me (as your W did to OM in the hotel), she's interested in 1 thing. Do you know what part of her cycle she was in (ovulation?). The other reason I re-emphasize this is because of what I said earlier - anything coming out of her mouth has to be suspect. I would bet that more happened than her diddling around with his twinkie. Only the two of them know, and I suspect his two faced message to your W and his W is reflective of true reality. 

If she was in ovulation part of cycle - in addition to STD - Pregnancy tests just in case. Wouldn't trust her at this point. I'm not advocating for premature R as some think - just helping to prep u in case it comes up from her at some point. 

Reality check.


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## StrangerThanFiction

Seangar said:


> "hey Sean, i just wanted to tell you that i love you and good night, and i want u to know that if you just dont feel like talking to me that i'd rather you tell me that then tell me your tired and your going to bed and then you really just go online, it hurts my feelings. I just wanted to let you know how i feel. and i know we're on a "break" but i really miss you and i really wanted to just cuddle with you tonight, and none of that could really happen so i wanted to talk to you, and it just seems like your losing intrest or something because lately you dont even want to talk to me. I dont like feeling not wanted and thats exactly how i've been feeling. And if thats the case then just let me know and i'll back off, it seems like maybe you want your space, i dont know. Your going to have to tell me because you've been sending me mixed signals. Well i'm going to bed now. I love you. good night Sean"


For some reason your last post just amplifies the sadness of this entire thread. Don't mean to defend your wife or her recent choices, but this is such a cheerless view into the inner workings of her mind years ago.


----------



## sadcalifornian

I think you are handling the whole thing quite well. And, I hope she comes around and ask for your forgiveness. Also, even though she said she ended the A, don't be complacent. If OM finds a way to contact her again, she may well start up the relationship again, just way deeper underground the next time. 

Her cutting him off was done in the heat of the moment, and I suspect she still carries a deep attraction to him. Maintain your vigilance and brace yourself for all possibilities. And, maybe not now, but you must know that you have to contact OMW time to time what's going on on her end.


----------



## turnera

That message has valuable information on how you pushed her away. What are you doing to change that part of you?


----------



## calif_hope

After the drama (as you described) at the hotel, her husband and kids in the parking lot, the cops, OM wife ------ and all the emotion and personal value judgement she said she was feeling ---- she pranced around nude in front of the other man, she made out with him and fondled his penis while their wad a possibility that you and your kids were just yards away.

She is warped, I don't think your just dealing with her being in a fog, she has bigger issues.

Do what you have to do to protect your kids from her illness....barrow and beg for the $$ for the divorse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07

@calif I think she did it in the 40 mins before the cops were there.
Also knowing the sick fu ck the OM is, they might still have had sex that night. 




> they first got back, got naked in front of him to tease him while she was changing into her pjs. She said they did sleep in the same bed and mostly talked, she said they kissed and petted (she felt his diccck through is pants she said).





> she said because she wants her kids back in her life…that she doesn’t want to lose them.



This part killed me. What is the problem Sean? Maybe you have a co-dependency problem? Why can't you let her go? You mention R in every post you make. I don't see any signs of R from her. You are desperate for it. Even if you did, it will only be a false R. Remember her reason to come back is only the kids, not you at any point. Find your self respect wherever you lost it..

Right now you wife is angry at her lover because he dumped her. The usual lovers breakup. The feeling will be back soon. tell his wife immediately


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## Wolfgar

turnera said:


> That message has valuable information on how you pushed her away. What are you doing to change that part of you?


That email was from when I was 19, I've obviously changed quite a bit since then. I treated her amazingly before all of this happened.


----------



## Wolfgar

warlock07 said:


> This part killed me. What is the problem Sean? Maybe you have a co-dependency problem? Why can't you let her go? You mention R in every post you make. I don't see any signs of R from her. You are desperate for it. Even if you did, it will only be a false R. Remember her reason to come back is only the kids, not you at any point. Find your self respect wherever you lost it..


The problem? I've been with this women for 10 years of my life, she's the mother of my two children, and during our time together she's always been an amazing honest loving wife. She reached a breaking point, partly caused by me, by her job, and her own weakness...she's destroyed every meaningful relationship she's had, I feel wrong giving up on her when she's always been there for me (and I've F'd up quite a bit). What she did is horrible and I'm not even sure it's something I could forgive or get over. I'm more than willing to let her go, but I'm not shutting the door to the idea of R...I'm prepared for either or.


----------



## Chaparral

Seangar said:


> The problem? I've been with this women for 10 years of my life, she's the mother of my two children, and during our time together she's always been an amazing honest loving wife. She reached a breaking point, partly caused by me, by her job, and her own weakness...she's destroyed every meaningful relationship she's had, I feel wrong giving up on her when she's always been there for me (and I've F'd up quite a bit). What she did is horrible and I'm not even sure it's something I could forgive or get over. I'm more than willing to let her go, but I'm not shutting the door to the idea of R...I'm prepared for either or.


This is your life, your call. A lot of posters seem to ignore/miss what BS wants and continue to hound the BS to divorce. Thats really easy when you have no skin in the game.

Its your family and unfortunately your walking a thin line with the rest of your families whole future at stake. You do have support here whatever you decide.

Good luck and prayers.


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## warlock07

Sorry, bad communication on my part. I was not pushing for divorce. My concern is that you are not ready to be without her. You are willing to forget and forgive at the slightest hint of regret from her part. Maybe she does not regret them as much as you make it out to be. I could understand that you want to be there for her but I am worried that you will end up hurt again.


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## golfergirl

Seangar said:


> My wife is aware that the OM told his wife about her, like I said I made it perfectly clear to my wife that he was throwing her under the bus to his wife making it seem like the she was the one pursuing him. This pissed my wife off and she gave me more ammo to give to his wife to show what a slim ball he was. “Well did you tell her that on our first date he wanted to get a hotel room and have sex”, I said yes, “I told her that. I told her that before all of this you were a great mother and wife”.


So your wife wants you to tattle on OM to his wife to p!ss her off enough to throw him out and clear the way for your wife? That's not good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wolfgar

golfergirl said:


> So your wife wants you to tattle on OM to his wife to p!ss her off enough to throw him out and clear the way for your wife? That's not good.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She wouldn't tell me what he said at first, I forced it out of her on the condition I wouldn't go back and tell his wife. So no, I wouldn't say she wants me to tattle on him.

Although I agree, I doubt she'd turn him down if he continued to pursue her...especially if he left his wife for her.


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## sadcalifornian

Ideally, if this somehow works out, you must remember the ultimate of state of mind for your wife should be "indifference". Right now, she still carries alot of love/missing/hate/resentment type of emotions. This means she is still in deep fog of A. Even if she says stuff that indicate as though she hates him, that is not a good place to see her in. The feeling of hate is extremely close of the feeling of love. 

When my XWW left me, I did fight for her for the first 2-3 months, but then I just gave up on her. I never even tried to do much about OM either. The reason in my case was that my XWW was just a horrible W and mother throughout my entire M. I fought to change her mind only because I did not want to break up the family for the sake of my kids and maybe for the sake of marriage itself, if that makes any sense. 

In your case, you definitely feel strongly that your W is worth saving. She has been a wonderful wife and a mother until she gave up on her M and delve into this A. So, don't give up easily as I on the other hand did. You know what you are fighting for. 

However, as I mentioned before, fighting for your M does not mean you have to be clingy and begging her to come back. You have to play your cards carefully and patiently. 

I hope you and your W can overcome this difficult time together to rebuild your marriage.


----------



## the guy

:iagree:

You did a great job in making this affair as as inconvienent and as uncomfortable as possible. Better late then never.

Have you talked to your FIL? Is he an enabler, or is he promarraige?

Right now...with as much indifference as you can re enforce her past achievements as a mother and a wife before the "new job" and reidierate the point that she needs to do to get back to the place she once was.

My point here is leave the door open, for her to make the healthy choice, but in the same breath show her the alpha male that has new boundries and healthier behaviors.

We keep our fingers crossed that she sees the man she fell in love with so many years ago and not the man that dated her while she was with another man.

Again make it is clear as possible that there is an open door, she just needs to step through it. Also make this point clear to everyone that will have a positive impact in her life, poeple she looks up to...


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## Wolfgar

NEW REVELATIONS: 

Tonight my wife and I talked for hours and she came completely clean about everything. I will admit, I manipulated her a little to break down her wall and get the truth out (I know how to push my own wifes buttons of course). I told her that me and his wife talked today, and that she told me how her husband said my wife was trying to seduce him basically, being naked after the shower, kissing and rubbing on his penis...but that he felt to guilty and turned her advances down. I knew this would upset her, especially after he's thrown her away like garbage. She finally came out and told me that she was the one that originally turned down his advancements, he wanted to have sex with her and she said no...but he kept coming onto her and she eventually caved in. SO YES, they did have sex (I guess everyone already figured that). And apparently it was really long sex, she said an hour wtf? This explains her intense reaction after him leaving her and going back to his wife, b/c she had just had sex with him. She feels like a worthless piece of shiiit right now. She told me that everything she told me in the beginning was true, that they didn't have sex until that night in the hotel. She said she did break things off with him when she said she did, but he kept pursuing her...he came up to the bar the next 3 days in a row, the first 2 days she ignored him, the 3rd day they talked and he told her to "never throw him away like that again". So her breaking contact with him never really happened, this pos never gave up. My wife basically fell for this guy and threw everything away for him, she said he made her feel so special and happy, he told her he wanted to be with her and not his wife, blah blah (all the basic stuff a married man would say to a women he wants to sleep with). 

I plan on telling his wife and exposing this slimball for what he is. My wife told me they both went over there stories so they went together, and that night in the hotel they both promised not to tell me or his wife about them having sex. I know that once his wife finds out theres a good chance she'll be done with him...and in return he'll continue to pursue my wife. She says she wants nothing to do with him after he just threw her away like nothing, but I doubt thats the case...all it would take is a little sweet talking but we'll see. This can be her test.

PS, they didn't use a condom, he came inside of her. She has HPV, who knows what he has. My life ***kking sucks


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## sadcalifornian

OK, two things.

First, does she want R now?

Secondly, do not trust what she says. Not informing OMW in fear that she may kick him out is your choice. But, for you at least, she must come completely clean. I still have some doubt she has come clean. I think poly is in order. I know you are financially tight, but you mention that you expect her to take one down the road some time in the future.


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## Wolfgar

She's definitely come clean about everything, she was crying hysterically, telling me how sorry she was...and what more is there to really even lie about? She expressed wanting to come back home, I told her she needed a few weeks atleast to figure things out...and by that time I might be moving out and she could live here (If I get this job out of state). I think if I pushed it she would def. be open for R now, but I think its to soon...she needs to feel the pain from what she's done and realize what she's lost. She needs to learn from this.

I feel like I'm still in shock right now, I just had this conversation with her like 15 minutes ago. Tmmr everything will hit me and I'm sure a new form of anger will set in


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## aug

Seangar said:


> PS, they didn't use a condom, *he came inside of her.* She has HPV, who knows what he has. My life ***kking sucks


Well, it should go without saying that you should not have sex with your wife now till you know for sure she's not pregnant with the OM's baby. You know an hour is a long time and a lot of swimmers can be produced during that hour, and for those swimmers to reach their goal.


You may want to inform the OMW's so that she can be prepared in case the OM is the father.


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## Bugz Bunny

I'm following this thread from beginning and only thing that I have to say is that she is disgusting...after you were in the hotel with your kids and after the police incident she had sex with him after all that...just digusting...

Please expose him to his wife because this poor woman deserves to know the truth ( and give her advice to check for STD)...no one deserves to live in a lie...

Good luck to you and your children...


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## Wolfgar

aug- she's on birth control

Bugz- Yea, I agree...it doesnt get much more disgusting than that. Goes to show your the power of emotions, they have the ability to completely transform a person. She'll have to live with this regret all her life. Have no worries, I will expose him. I pray she divorces him and takes everything, his money, house, kids. I'd love to smash this guys face in with a bat.


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## aug

Bugz Bunny said:


> I'm following this thread from beginning and only thing that I have to say is that she is disgusting...after you were in the hotel with your kids and after the police incident she had sex with him after all that...just digusting...
> 
> *Please expose him to his wife because this poor woman deserves to know the truth ( and give her advice to check for STD)...no one deserves to live in a lie...*
> 
> Good luck to you and your children...



So true. You must tell the OMW so that she does not get HPV. But after telling her, and the OMW still want to have sex with her husband, the OM, then it's her risk to take if she want uterine cancer in her future.


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## sadcalifornian

Look, many BS here discover years long PAs and some even have to deal with OC. I am not trying to downplay your pain, but if her confession is true, her PA was only for that one night. I know it sucks big time that she did that knowing you and the kids were out in the parking lot. Then again, WW in affair fog does crazy things like that. I bet that since she has come this far, she was willing to commit totaly to OM at that point. Then, the rude awakening occurred that OM kicked her to the curb. It's just another version of same old script.

The important thing is for you to look at the big picture. According to you, she has been a real good W and mother throughout your M, and she is indeed worth saving. Then, console yourself thinking it could have been much worse. I hope I am not making you feel even worse, but believe it or not, I am trying to help you here.

You are doing well that you make her suffer a little and not forgiving her too easily. I say, give her no more than a week and let her come back. Keeping her out of your house too long would be counterproductive. Any kind of separation usually lessens the chance of R. It is better to work it out living in the same house. She can't show her remorse if she is not with you. She cannot help you heal if she's not with you. Also, she gets more tempted to reconnect with OM while separated.


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## warlock07

Sean...Sean...Sean... I don't want to tell you "I told you so" but I did... Your wife is no way ready for R in any form. I am not sure she will ever be for quite some time. You think you are there being for her. But she is repeatedly stabbing you and spitting on your face when you are dying. Remember, all this time you were defending the wife saying that she is telling the truth. Your old wife would never do that remember. She changed. I am repeating this again.

*How far would you have to go(indifference, disrespect) to do the same thing to your wife? How less should you think of her to subject her to such misery and pain? Again and again*

What kind of person will have sex that night? She might hate him now but she does not love/care for you one bit either. This thread is making me sick. And get that sick fu ck's name on www.cheaterville.com

Think about how long will it take for *YOU* to recover from this ****. Are you ready to go through the process? What else do you have to save when the trust is gone?


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## Wolfgar

sadcalifornian- You're not making me feel worse, I appreciate your words. Any form of infidelity is like a knife to the back, but I agree this could have been much worse. Some of the stories on this forum are true nightmares...affairs that go on for years without the other spouse ever knowing. So I realize as horrible as my situation is, it could be worse. 

I'll see how things go the next few days and gauge it from there, as to when I will allow her to move back in. I'm still unsure of a few things... If I can control my anger/pain and even get past her betrayal...Knowing that b/c he doesn't want her, now I get to have her back? If he choose to leave his wife, she would have happily been with him. Thats hard to stomach and I'm not sure I can.

Warlock- I see your point. To be honest, I've never fallen in love or have been infatuated with another women, so I honestly can't answer that. I know for her, the emotions were so powerful she threw everything away for them. There's nothing more selfish in this world then what she has done. I have never really defended her (other than talking about what a good mother/wife she was before all of this) and I dont remember saying she changed. I argued with you guys about the trickle truth and said I believed she was being honest with me...which it turns out she was about the sex, but she wasn't about the no contact.


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## warlock07

edited post...pls read again..

Also please take care about yourself. I hope you have time to do it

Edit: I am not arguing but she did lie about the sex too..Right?


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## morituri

Seangar said:


> She's definitely come clean about everything, she was crying hysterically, telling me how sorry she was...and what more is there to really even lie about? She expressed wanting to come back home, I told her she needed a few weeks atleast to figure things out...and by that time I might be moving out and she could live here (If I get this job out of state). I think if I pushed it she would def. be open for R now, but I think its to soon...*she needs to feel the pain from what she's done and realize what she's lost. She needs to learn from this.*


Yes she does need to feel the pain and what better way than to have her served with divorce papers and seeking temporary custody of the children. Divorce is not instantaneous and there is enough time to withdraw the petition.

Believe me I truly empathize with you because it is painfully hard to see the woman you love crying hysterically telling you how sorry she was for having betrayed you. Nevertheless, your emotional healing is your first priority and if that entails divorcing her, then so be it.


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## warlock07

@morituri Remember , she was crying everytime she confessed and it just got bad to worse


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## sadcalifornian

People's feelings change. You are not the same person as you once were ten years ago. So, which is the real you? No one can answer. Both of you are real, just a different Sean at different time. Right now, let's say, she may still have feeling strong enough to go to him if he accepts her (This is hypothetical, by the way). That does not mean she will feel the same way after several months of R. By then, she may laugh at the thought of going to him no matter what he offers her. This is life. It's just like that. 

Don't dwell on those thoughts. I know you are hurt and angry, rightfully so. But, you must not lose the sight of the big picture. To have a successful R, you need to be really strong. You have to learn to control your emotions. It's unfair, but this is the self sacrifice you have to make for your family and kids. When you married your W and had kids, I am sure you thought you would be willing to fight to your death protecting this family from any outside threat. Now is the time to prove your resolve. It's just that you never expected it to be this kind of enemy you would be fighting. It's still a fight nonethless.


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## aug

Take a few days or weeks to decide if you want to stay married. Give yourself some time for your emotions to settle.


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## Sindo

This was supposedly the first time they had sex, but it's been a PA since they started. From Sean's first thread: 



> 1st date, they went to dinner, kissed in his car, she put her mouth on his penis for a few seconds, they fondled each other, he fingered her.
> 2nd date, they just went to dinner/kissed (she had to get home to pick our kids up from day care).
> 3rd date, after she told me she was done talking to him. They again went out to dinner, afterwards they found somewhere to park. This time around they did the same type of fooling around, but she jerked him off to the point of orgasm.


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## Wolfgar

A New New Revelation:

I have yet to admit this on here and it's hard to do, even online. But I have cheated on her in our past and she has no idea. It was sexual for me, I never fell for another girl, or was willing to throw my wife away for them...not that it makes it better. I haven't been with another women since our original separation and I honestly think I learned something from my brief sexual encounters...it made me appreciate my wife so much more. The past 4 years I have been completely honest and faithful with her and our relationship has been the best it ever has been (until this of course). But still, I cheated as well. Perhaps this is why I am a bit more understanding them most of you believe she deserves. How can I pass judgment on her when I feel that I've done the same thing? The only difference is that for her it was emotional (this man tricked her into believing he wanted to be with her), for me it was purely sexual. We are all human beings, we all have inherit flaws...I've accepted that. All we can do is learn from the mistakes we've made and try to be better. For her this is a life changing event, she can either be destroyed by it...or come out of it a better person.

@Sindo- You're forgetting him coming into her bar every day to see her...that happened a month before their first date. They first developed a strong emotional relationship, then the physical part followed.


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## sadcalifornian

Sindo said:


> This was supposedly the first time they had sex, but it's been a PA since they started. From Sean's first thread:


Yeah, I forgot that. Well, it's Sean's decision whether to R. But, from what I hear, his W seems worth fighting for.


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## warlock07

It is hard to fight when you are so undesired and unwanted..It definitely takes a very strong man to do that. But is it the right thing to do? What about his self respect? Sacrifice for the greater good of the family? A broken family with self respect or a united family destroyed self respect? Tough options either way. 
She even had sex with him after he found them at the hotel; How do you get over that?

Edit: Wow, Sean confession changes many things. No wonder he wasn't getting angry and very forgiving. he was justifying that he deserved it some shape or form.


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## sadcalifornian

Wow, I am losing respect for you real quick here. Gee....

What can we do? What's done's done. 

At some point, I think you should come clean to her with your past indescretion. Whether to confess this to her now is upto you, because timingwise the fallout would be very unpredictable, although it would be the right thing to do of course.

However, think about it this way. If you give her a really hard time over this A, and then some time later, you confess your past indescretion, how do you think she would feel then? She would be very very hurt and destroyed not only by the fact you cheated but also by the fact you were so unforgiving to her over her A. 

I don't mean to say, go easy on her this time, but don't be too harsh either. Let's be honest here. We both know that you don't deserve it. So, let her come back in after a few days and tell her you are willing to work on R. 

As for your confession, it's your decision when to do it. I don't know the right answer for this.


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## Sindo

Sean, how long ago are we talking about. Was this while you were married?


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## Wolfgar

Oh i've gotten very angry, but yes I suppose I have always been willing to forgive. I don't agree, I don't feel I deserved this...I have been a loving father and husband the past few years. While she's out at her bar flirting with OM, I'm at home reading my kids books and putting them to bed. But yea, perhaps it's karma. The fact that she was willing to throw everything away for him just stings all the more...I never came close to being at that point.

@Sindo it was when we were only dating, but had a child together (7 years ago). I was away at college and was with a few women. Then when we were married we hit a rough patch (4 years ago), I started going out with my guy friends and slept with a girl (after discovering my wifes affair). It's not something I'm proud of and I made a decision to never do it again


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## warlock07

Were they escorts?


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## sadcalifornian

I think you are justifying your A as something less significant and hurtful because it did not involve deep emotion like her A? What you describe is a very typical difference between man's A vs. woman's A. Nothing more. 

Even in the case of your W's A, to your W, it may have been an EA/PA, but to OM, it must have been just PA with no emotion attached. Whatever he told her was a bunch of bull crap just to get in her pants. So, in any of these typical affair, women are always more disgusting and unforgivable because they have more emotion? 

I know you are hurt and I empathize, but we have to keep things in proper perspective. I cannot agree with your rationale there. 

I repeat what I said. Don't be too harsh on her. Just be harsh enough so that she wouldn't repeat this. But, don't be overly harsh since you are no different. It does not matter even if those As happened years ago. If you tell her now, do you think she would agree to dismiss them easily because they were long ago?


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## warlock07

> women are always more disgusting and unforgivable because they have more emotion?


I would replace "disgusting and unforgivable" with more painful to the SO because of the emotional attachment and also the relative societal standards on men's vs women's infidelity ie A man is seen inadequate if the women cheats. I am sure this will cause an argument but i hope people understand what I mean.


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## Wolfgar

I'm not saying my A's were less significant....if anything I said they may have been worse b/c I had more than one. The fact that she was willing to throw everything away for this man makes it worse to me. But regardless and A is an A and there's no excuse for it. I deeply regret what I did, as I'm sure she will as well. As for telling her at this point, nothing positive could come from it. Especially after she just had an affair, she'd think I was only telling her now to hurt her and get back at her.


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## warlock07

Do you plan to tell her later?


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## sadcalifornian

If the marriage is worth saving, I am extremely pro-marriage. In your case, it seems it is. So, just concentrate on how to make this work with your W. If everything works out, who knows that maybe you will have a even better and stronger marriage than ever before?


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## Sindo

@Sean: If the two of you R, and you ask her for full transparency, consider offering full transparency on your part as well. This means if she gives you all her passwords, you give her all of yours. Even if you never tell her about your As.

Unlike your wife, you have never felt consequences. And so although you might not believe it now, you may end up more likely than she to cheat down the road. I think transparency might save you from something you regret, or at least give you hesitation.


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## warlock07

Seangar, kudos to you for telling the truth to the forum though there might be a backlash. But I still think what she did is many times much worse and more disgusting than what you did, Give her R too easily and she might not learn from it.


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## sadcalifornian

warlock07 said:


> But I still think what she did is many times much worse and more disgusting than what you did,


How do you know? You don't even know the full stories of his PAs, let alone how to compare them.


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## warlock07

Be she did it when the husband was waiting in the hotel lobby in rain with his children when she did it. She still did it when he knew that she was with the OM in the hotel. Only much worse would be tying him to a chair and having sex in front him in the same room. At least she has the luxury of not knowing of the explicit details of his affairs and watching the unfold live


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## sadcalifornian

warlock07 said:


> Be she did it when the husband was waiting in the hotel lobby in rain with his children when she did it. She still did it when he knew that she was with the OM in the hotel. Only much worse would be tying him to a chair and having sex in front him in the same room. At least she has the luxury of not knowing of the explicit details of his affairs and watching the unfold live


I know there are some very wicked elements in that incident. But, still you hardly know any details of his multiple PAs. Sean never revealed much info other than they existed. I think you are over-speculating here. Also, these sort of things are hard to compare as each of us has different area of A that we put more value to. 

There was a BS on a forum that decide to forgive his W for having ONS, which resulted in OC. His reasoning was that there was no emotion attached and it was only ONS so he decided to forgive. To me, this is quite baffling since I just cannot see myself forving my W for bringing OC in my family no matter the circumstance. But, then again, he's not me. 

We always like to dismiss or downplay our own mistakes but make others pay the full price for theirs. You can't just assume your perceptions as the absolute without knowing the full truth. And, even if you do have all the details, it would still be very subjective to say which is worse.


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## Yardman

Wow, so she had unprotected sex in hotel while she knew you were outside with the kids and she hpv. That's something the OMW should hear. Does she know about the bj and handjob your wife originally told you about?

Double Wow, You've cheated on your wife multiple times in the past and never come clean about this. Pot meet kettle. My hunch is your wife at least suspected this and that sort of gave her a green light for cheating on you.

If you two do consider R, you should come clean about your past infidelity. Heck, you should do it irregardless of R. Now may not seem like a good time, but when will it. You've kept it hidden for this long, how long were intending to kept it secret?


----------



## warlock07

sadcalifornian said:


> I know there are some very wicked elements in that incident. But, still you hardly know any details of his multiple PAs. Sean never revealed much info other than they existed. I think you are over-speculating here. Also, these sort of things are hard to compare as each of us has different area of A that we put more value to.
> 
> There was a BS on a forum that decide to forgive his W for having ONS, which resulted in OC. His reasoning was that there was no emotion attached and it was only ONS so he decided to forgive. To me, this is quite baffling since I just cannot see myself forving my W for bringing OC in my family no matter the circumstance. But, then again, he's not me.
> 
> We always like to dismiss or downplay our own mistakes but make others pay the full price for theirs. You can't just assume your perceptions as the absolute without knowing the full truth. And, even if you do have all the details, it would still be very subjective to say which is worse.





> But* I still think *what she did is many times much worse and more disgusting than what you did


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## Yardman

Seangar said:


> I'm not saying my A's were less significant....if anything I said they may have been worse b/c I had more than one. The fact that she was willing to throw everything away for this man makes it worse to me. But regardless and A is an A and there's no excuse for it. I deeply regret what I did, as I'm sure she will as well. As for telling her at this point, nothing positive could come from it. Especially after she just had an affair, she'd think I was only telling her now to hurt her and get back at her.


In my opinion you should tell her and offer to hit the "reset button" of your marriage, or tell her and offer divorce. You've never had any negavitve repercussions from your cheating, yet you won't offer her R now as you belive she has not felt enough pain for her affair. That's just wrong


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## PBear

As someone who has cheated on his wife, I think if you want to work on your marriage, you need to come clean to her on your affair. How can the two of you fix the issues when there's still skeletons in the closet? the fact that you decided on your own to never do it again, and the fact that they were "just physical" are irrelevant.

If you don't want to work on your marriage and just want to end it (which would seem pretty hypocritical to me), don't bother telling her, and just end it. Although in your situation, it might ease her guilt if you confess, if you wanted to give her that.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustaJerk

How classic is that... I guess KARMA dealt you a b!tch slap, considering you cheated first.


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## F-102

So, you cheated on her, and now she's done it to you, and you're howling like a b**ch in heat.

Really sucks when someone stabs you in the back the same as you did, don't it?

As far as I'm concerned, you're on your own.


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## Shaggy

Your cheating aside 

She did it after knowing you and her kids were outside the hotel.

Honestly what kind of evil woman would be in the mood to have sex with anyone knowing her husband and kids where there trying to get her to come out and home??

You gotta be very messed up to get in the mood after that.

Then there is the fact that she said she cut off contact with him and didn't. She said she's tell you if he came in, and he did night after night.

She's lied and lied and lied. She does deserve to fell worthless. she's acted like someone who is worthless.


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## Shaggy

Now for the cheating - yeah you're crap for having done it - there is a difference here in that you didn't leave your family for it, but she did and planned on doing it.

You didn't do it after being caught - she did

You seem to have felt guilt - she didn't and still doesn't.

I'm not giving you a pass , but I am saying the type of cheating is different.


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## turnera

Yardman said:


> In my opinion you should tell her and offer to hit the "reset button" of your marriage, or tell her and offer divorce. You've never had any negavitve repercussions from your cheating, yet you won't offer her R now as you belive she has not felt enough pain for her affair. That's just wrong


Yep.


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## turnera

PBear said:


> As someone who has cheated on his wife, I think if you want to work on your marriage, you need to come clean to her on your affair. How can the two of you fix the issues when there's still skeletons in the closet? the fact that you decided on your own to never do it again, and the fact that they were "just physical" are irrelevant.
> 
> If you don't want to work on your marriage and just want to end it (which would seem pretty hypocritical to me), don't bother telling her, and just end it. Although in your situation, it might ease her guilt if you confess, if you wanted to give her that.


Yep again.

Anything else is just a convenience. Built on lies.


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## Almostrecovered

wow

what a cluster fvck this turned out to be

how can you expect honesty and remorse from her when you have shown none to her?

You need to come clean on this and hope for the best, bear in mind that even though the cheating was years ago, it will be fresh to her


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## turnera

ONLY 3 years ago. Which he justified by saying they were having a 'rough patch.'


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## WhereAmI

Geezy peezy! 

You can't hold her to a higher standard than yourself. Come clean.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered

turnera said:


> ONLY 3 years ago. Which he *justified *by saying they were having a 'rough patch.'



he's rather verse in wayward speak


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## aug

Yardman said:


> Double Wow, You've cheated on your wife multiple times in the past and never come clean about this. Pot meet kettle. *My hunch is your wife at least suspected this and that sort of gave her a green light for cheating on you.*



I would agree with this. Women (okay men too) can sense something is off. She probably suspected? Well, you'll know the answer when you ask her.


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## morituri

:wtf:

If the roles were reversed and she were the one posting here, would you agree with her decision to keep the truth about her multiple affairs a secret from you while you beg to let you come back to her and the kids after she blew your affair sky high?

Sorry Sean but you need to face the consequences of your past marital betrayals by confessing them to her. She has a right to know and decide if she can continue being married to you or divorce you and move on with her life. You have no right to control her with lies of omission.


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## StrangerThanFiction

morituri said:


> :wtf:
> 
> If the roles were reversed and she were the one posting here, would you agree with her decision to keep the truth about her multiple affairs a secret from you while you beg to let you come back to her and the kids after she blew your affair sky high?
> 
> Sorry Sean but you need to face the consequences of your past marital betrayals by confessing them to her. She has a right to know and decide if she can continue being married to you or divorce you and move on with her life. You have no right to control her with lies of omission.


:iagree:

If you kick her out now with no chance to reconcile, you will have to live with your own hypocritical double standard for the rest of your life. You won’t likely get an easier time to come clean to her about your past indiscretions. Say you reconcile now and this comes out years later, do you think it would be easier to swallow then?? She will rightfully resent that she had to go through this time as the “bad person”.

What you have to gain by revealing now is total honesty for the first time in years. What you have to gain by continuing the secret is that you get to continue being the “good one” in the relationship in everyone else’s eyes, although in reality it’s a sham.


----------



## Locard

All the above is true, that said.....these last couple of days for Sean have to be some of most ****ed up a human could endure. I can give him a little slack, for now.


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## Dadof3

Cheating aside (I'm not surprised BTW - your approach didn't make sense until now - and I won't address it yet, like the others), I want to go back to the "W got kicked to the curbside" considering they had full blown sex (which was predictable considering the circumstances) - I don't know about you, but with what your wife told you, what he is telling his wife, still makes perfect sense that the OM is telling OMW is part of the concocted tale to keep their "relationship" underground. this is how he is doing his part. While your W is now telling you the full details about what really happened, it makes sense with the approach the OM is taking with his W. 

Your W's confession is more of a symptom of being left in the cold, having lost her home and family than it is from being kicked by the curbside by OM - *"curbside" was part of the plan*! Their story was concocted to get both back in their homes and to continue their affair.

The problem came when Sean didn't let her come back. Now she's feeling the sting of loneliness, hence the confession and may STILL be susceptible to restarting once things have cooled off between OM and OMW. That was the whole point of the original story. Getting both back into their homes and able to "EAT CAKE". 

So - Sean - are you man enough to confess your "ONS" to your W in the spirit of what you are willing to offer? 

Frankly, as disgusted in your W as I am, I am disgusted that you went behind your W back when married and having a "rough patch" and cheated. Doesn't make what she did right, and what she did doesn't make what you did right. It all makes sense now!


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## Eli-Zor

> Frankly, as disgusted in your W as I am, I am disgusted that you went behind your W back when married and having a "rough patch" and cheated. Doesn't make what she did right, and what she did doesn't make what you did right. It all makes sense now


! 

:iagree:


Fetch your wife and bring her home, considering your past actions she now has every entitlement to live in the family home as well. 


The process of telling her is a gentle one, for now you tell her you will not discuss her affair and the home is her home as well so long as she gives up the OM and evidences it. Let her know that you are not innocent in your past behaviors and that there will be no rug sweeping from either of you. Wait till Christmas is past before you both sit and share the truth . 

Lay the truth out , the good and the bad, be open be honest and give her space to think. She will blame you and call you a hypocrite, as such she will have every right to. 


Will your marriage fall apart? no one knows but it will never recover if you and her do not talk and practice honesty .


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## working_together

I think your wife knows that you have cheated on her in the past....the email she sent you years ago clearly says she knew something was up with you. It's best to come clean with your past ONS's.

Just curious, why all of a sudden did you feel the need to share this info on TAM? guilt?


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## Wolfgar

I can understand all the hate, you all have the right to your opinions. I have left a lot of details out about our past relationship, including the "rough patch" I referred too. I wanted help with the current problem, I felt it was unnecessary to share our entire relationship history. She's basically lied to me quite a bit in our relationship, from the very beginning. I started off as an amazing partner to her, but as she kept lying the resentment began to build (this was pre marriage). So I quit caring and cheated on her when I was away at college and than again 4 years ago, we were separated, I moved out. She had a phone sex (emotional affair) with a man that lived out of state (while she was pregnant) she lied to me about it when I gave her the chance to be honest...he was also a married man (this emotional affair is almost a clone to what is happening now, it happened almost the same way, the only difference is that this one took the next step). During that time, I found out about her relationship and starting having relationships of my own (perhaps to get back at her). I slept with a women, and I later told her the truth about it...but I held back from telling her about the other women I was with previously. To this day I feel that me having sex with a women has caused her to resent me, seeing as she has always been faithful outside of the phone sex. She was disgusted in herself for having a phone sex relationship with a married man while she was pregnant, she seemed genuinely sorry and remorseful. After all of that we got back together and things have been the best they ever have been, up until this happened. Remember, we have been together since we were 17 & 18, our relationship has been quite immature in a lot of ways...after the separation we both grew and became better people and our marriage flourished. 

I have no problem being honest with her at this point. She has suspected that I've been with other women, but has told me if I have she'd rather not know...and be "blissfully ignorant". I feel that if I come out and tell her right now, this would completely ruin her healing/growing process. Her mind is just now starting to clear, she's starting to realize what she did was wrong (even if she wasn't married to me). If I added this to all of that, it would be extreme overload for her. She wouldn't be able to feel true remorse because she would tell herself, "Well he did it to me, so he deserved what I did to him". At this point, if we stay married or not, she's the mother of my children and I'd like to see her learn from this and become a better person. She shouldn't feel so little about herself that she's willing to be some married mans girl on the side...and she should NEVER put another man before he kids (like she has done throughout this). 

I came out and told you guys b/c I wanted you to see my perspective and why I was so willing to forgive her.


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## sadcalifornian

After all, this is your thread, and we are here to give you the best advise to help you go thru this affair issues. Sometimes some posters including myself get carried away to be a bit judgmental and act as though we are in a Bible club or something acting and talking all noble and divine. 

I hope you would tell her the truth at some point in the future to clean the slate between the two of you. When to confess is really your call. Morally, confessing asap would be the right thing to do. In terms of saving your marriage now, which is already hanging by a thread, I don't know when would be the best. 

So, you guys have had some issues of infidelity both sides big or small throughout your marriage and neither one is an angel, I guess. Just do what you can to save your marraige out of your genuine concern for your kids and your wife. But, be careful how you tread the water; Don't be a hypocrite.


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## Dadof3

Sean - I don't think we are hating on you for cheating on her. Your back story definitely puts a lot of light on your current situation. I'm a person of context, which to me, means you have to know the past to understand the future. 

I didn't specifically comment on your college days - why? you weren't married. I think that what matters here is your marriage and how it got here. Personally, I'm with Eli-zor on opinion. Get her back in the house (of course, there HAS to be full disclosure and transparency, she STILL has to do some heavy lifting to stay married), but ease her into the total marital picture after the holidays are over.

Spouses know when something else has happened, even a suspicion as to what, even when we haven't been explicit in coming out with what it was. 

Totally understand that you left this out to get assistance with the present problem. Being the context person that I am (and I'm sure others here are too) might have given modified advice (BIG MAYBE). Either way, while we ARE disappointed, it does sound like you've matured and have changed for the better. If you love your W and are willing to stick with her, it will be important for you to share your mistakes and the wisdom you've learned from it. 

Forgiveness is definitely in order, although forgetting will probably never happen, whatever the outcome with your marriage.


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## turnera

I don't hate you. I just think you have little right to morality over her at this point. And justifying remaining silent because it will 'keep her from feeling true remorse' is horsesh*t.


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## Yardman

turnera said:


> I don't hate you. I just think you have little right to morality over her at this point. And justifying remaining silent because it will 'keep her from feeling true remorse' is horsesh*t.


Same here


----------



## aug

Seangar said:


> I can understand all the hate, you all have the right to your opinions. I have left a lot of details out about our past relationship, including the "rough patch" I referred too. I wanted help with the current problem, I felt it was unnecessary to share our entire relationship history. She's basically lied to me quite a bit in our relationship, from the very beginning. I started off as an amazing partner to her, but as she kept lying the resentment began to build (this was pre marriage). So I quit caring and cheated on her when I was away at college and again a few years later. Then about 3 years ago, we were separated, I moved out. She had a phone sex (emotional affair) with a man that lived out of state (while she was pregnant) she lied to me about it when I gave her the chance to be honest...he was also a married man (this emotional affair is almost a clone to what is happening now, it happened almost the same way, the only difference is that this one took the next step). During that time, I found out about her relationship and starting having relationships of my own (perhaps to get back at her). I slept with a women, and I later told her the truth about it...but I held back from telling her about the other women I was with previously. To this day I feel that me having sex with a women has caused her to resent me, *seeing as she has always been faithful outside of the phone sex.* She was disgusted in herself for having a phone sex relationship with a married man while she was pregnant, she seemed genuinely sorry and remorseful. After all of that we got back together and things have been the best they ever have been, up until this happened. Remember, *we have been together since we were 17 & 18*, our relationship has been quite immature in a lot of ways...after the separation we both grew and became better people and our marriage flourished. .





Seangar said:


> PS, they didn't use a condom, he came inside of her. She has HPV, who knows what he has. My life ***kking sucks




If she has been with you since 17 and been faithful outside of the phone sex, how did she get HPV? From you?


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## Dadof3

Good catch, Aug!


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## aug

Dadof3 said:


> Good catch, Aug!


It just stood out. I dont know if we have the whole picture.


Isnt she on anti-depressant or some medication? If she knows she's did not have outside physical sex but got HPV, then keeping that emotional turmoil inside her was breaking her. And if she knew that she may develop cancer due to the HPV, she had to live with that every day.


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## Almostrecovered

aug said:


> If she has been with you since 17 and been faithful outside of the phone sex, how did she get HPV? From you?


Well if he cheated, it could be from him
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wolfgar

She was with 4 other men before me, now she's up to 6 I didn't give her HPV


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## Chaparral

Family first. Take her back. Never lord it over her. That doesn't mean be a doormat. She doesn't want to know about any other women so don't tell her if she doesn't ask. Thats your punishment, along with her cheating.

Both of you read "Love Busters", "His Needs Her Needs" and "Five Love Languages".

Take care of your babies and each other. Both of you need new jobs. 

Remind OM that you know where he lives through OMW and he damn well better stay away from your wife.

Sign a post nup giving up custody if one of you cheats.

Good luck and prayers for your family.


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## Dadof3

PS and you can add to that he knows where he lives and you may just have some revenge S*x with his W too! JK! LOL


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## Chaparral

By the way no hate here," but for the grace of God there go I/we"


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## warlock07

I am going to type the denial post gain. 


You are in denial 


Was she working in the bar when she had phone sex with the guy too?
Would it have been PA if he was intown?(I'm pretty sure)
You wife is not the perfect woman you make her out to be .

She has some major major issues.


She was disgusted in herself for having a phone sex relationship with a married man while she was pregnant, she seemed genuinely sorry and remorseful.

She was genuinely remorseful when she got caught the first time.

She seemed genuinely remorseful when she returned from the hotel

She was genuinely remorseful when she confessed the PA and let a man come inside her esp when her husband and children were in the hotel lobby

Stop making excuses for her.

She has major issues beyond you. 

She is not the perfect person you are making her out to be. 
*I don't see why these things shouldn't repeat again.*
They have every chance of repeating again once the feelings of guilt go away. You are going to get burned if you overlook these signs just because you cheated in the past too.
Take her to IC before anything.


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## Wolfgar

warlock07 said:


> I am going to type the denial post gain.
> 
> 
> You are in denial
> 
> 
> Was she working in the bar when she had phone sex with the guy too?
> Would it have been PA if he was intown?(I'm pretty sure)
> You wife is not the perfect woman you make her out to be .
> 
> She has some major major issues.
> 
> 
> She was disgusted in herself for having a phone sex relationship with a married man while she was pregnant, she seemed genuinely sorry and remorseful.
> 
> She was genuinely remorseful when she got caught the first time.
> 
> She seemed genuinely remorseful when she returned from the hotel
> 
> She was genuinely remorseful when she confessed the PA and let a man come inside her esp when her husband and children were in the hotel lobby
> 
> Stop making excuses for her.
> 
> She has major issues beyond you.
> 
> She is not the perfect person you are making her out to be.
> *I don't see why these things shouldn't repeat again.*
> They have every chance of repeating again once the feelings of guilt go away. You are going to get burned if you overlook these signs just because you cheated in the past too.
> Take her to IC before anything.


Agreed, she does have MAJOR issues. I've said many times within my posts that as a human being we are all far from perfect, we all have our flaws...and dealing with those flaws is a constant battle. I also agree with you, that unless she gets serious help, I have a good chance of getting burned again if we decide to R. What is IC? I can't begin to explain to you guys the love I have for her. You read this post and you see a deeply flawed and dysfunctional relationship. But I have always loved her and I always will, she has been there for me through everything (the passing of my mother and father for example). She is a good person, that's not denial. But she's also a weak person, I knew the risks when I signed onto this.

And regardless of what everyone thinks of my situation, you all have helped me tremendously...and I thank you all for that.


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## sadcalifornian

Well, it's too bad she is not bad enough to divorce. I guess it's your onus.


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## warlock07

IC -> Individual counselling


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## Chaparral

IC = individual counseling

I do not think you should keep her out of the house much longer at all. Time to let her come back and start rebonding with her family, no?


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## sadcalifornian

chapparal said:


> IC = individual counseling
> 
> I do not think you should keep her out of the house much longer at all. Time to let her come back and start rebonding with her family, no?


Yeah, don't keep her out too long.


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## warlock07

Sean,, have you talked to OM's wife?


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## warlock07

Quoted from an another thread



> I have been keeping up with your story. I am very sorry this happened to you as well. I have been married for 14 years and have 3 children. My wife also had an affair. I wish I had the courage to do what you are doing when I got the evidence. Not a day goes by that I wish would have just filed for divorce like you did. I went and talked to several attorneys…but never did. I kept holding out for hope that she would change and realize what we had. She knew about the appointments and it seemed to wake her up a little. I wrongly deduced that bluffing her would be enough. In retrospect, I think that was a big mistake.
> 
> After that she did seem to come out of the fog and commit to our marriage. We are still together but I feel I am doing most of the work. She tells me she loves me everyday but can I believe her? She claims NC for 6 months. I have no evidence otherwise. She still has not opened up and told me the whole story and why she allowed it to happen. She shuts down and stares at the floor whenever I try to discuss it. She is making efforts in other ways but I need honesty...I need the whole truth to move on. I feel that if I would have just filed for D like you did it would have been over sooner…one way or another. We would have been divorced by now or it is possible that she may have woke up sooner and that might have saved me months of emotional and physical torture. The shocking reality of divorce papers can sometimes wake up a WS.
> 
> It has been 9 months since D day #1 (Trickle Truth and lies began) and about 6 months since D day #2 (When I got the hard evidence…she did not deny it anymore) I have good days and bad days. With the exception of her not opening up with the whole story, our life at home seems to be OK.
> 
> I feel like I handled my situation like a fool. I am ashamed that I allowed my wife and her affair to destroy my self esteem to a point that I couldn't face life without her. I was far too trusting of a woman that I thought I knew. The advice I was given by the good people on these boards was to do what you are now doing. I think you are doing the right thing. I commend you on your courage and wish you and your children the best in the future.


I think some parts do apply to you.


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## HelloooNurse

If it's good for the goose, its good for the gander. She had to admit her infidelity and then feel the consequences of her actions. I think it's your turn now, Seangar.

I don't think it matters whose indescretions are "worse". On both sides, it's pretty wrong. Maybe both of you could learn/heal/grow together, as a team effort. This could be an opportunity, rather than a crisis. Lessons need to be learnt on both sides.. maybe you guys could learn together.


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## Wolfgar

@warlock yes I have talked to OMW, she has him on lock down.

I'll probably let her move back in within a the next week, she still needs time to herself to figure things out...she's had a complete collapse of everything that made her who she was, there's a lot of pieces to put together. She came over last night and we all went out to dinner as a family, it was more pleasant than I thought it would be. We talked, she cried.

I told her about the other women I was with as well, she asked me a few questions... and we didn't talk about it after that. She didn't seem to effected by it.


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## JustaJerk

> She didn't seem to effected by it.


She's probably in emotional shock right now. Don't be surprised if after she has processed it, she "loses it" in some way.


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## Sindo

Seangar said:


> I told her about the other women I was with as well, she asked me a few questions... and we didn't talk about it after that. She didn't seem to effected by it.


I'm glad you told her. I think this supports what a lot of us suspected. She knew. She might not have had proof, but on some level she knew.

Edit: JustaJerk's interpretation could be correct too.


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## Dadof3

Sean: I think the telling point of her moving back in will be when she re-commits to the marriage. Remember, before she didn't want to be married yet wanted the benefits of living in the house while "figuring herself out". Even with your past, I still think its fair to make sure she is fully committed to moving forward.


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## Wolfgar

@sindo yes, I think you're right. She had suspicions of me in the past, I think she just told her self she'd rather not know. She know's I've been completely honest and faithful since getting back together after our seperation.

@dadof3 I agree, that's why I have not asked her to move back. I need to know that she wants to be a family and work on our marriage. I'm not going to give her the option of having both worlds. I'm not really sure what she's thinking or feeling right now...I'm just trying to give her space for the time being.

@yardman Yes his wife knows about HPV.


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## Yardman

Hope you two can work things out, if she is willing to make the effort.

Did you tell OMW about your wife's HPV?


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## Patricia B. Pina

If you want to, move on.


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## Wolfgar

Well it's been a few days, she still hasn't really tried to talk to me about anything concerning our relationship. I think she's more bitter about the OM running back to his wife than anything. It's obvious she's in pain, she feels disgusted in herself by letting this happen...by being so naive and getting thrown out right after her and the OM had sex for the first time. She called him a coward. I asked, why...b/c he wouldn't leave his family for you? She cried and she said you should have heard the things he told me, he wanted to be with me and not his wife, he made me feel so special, blah blah (pretty hard for me to hear that shiiit while keeping my cool, but I did). I told her, well I tried telling you from the beginning, he would never leave his wife for you, all you were was a piece of a$$ for him...you knew what you were getting into and you did it anyways.

She came over to see the boys the other night, we went to dinner as a family, had a few drinks together when we got home. She sleep in bed with me and we did have sex It was honestly pretty great, it lasted about an hour...I guess I was pissed off and wanted to show her what she threw away (and I was tipsy). She said the sex was amazing...so much better than with him. The next day after I sobered up, I kind of regretted it. I'll try to keep from doing that again until she's ready for real R. Although it was a bit of an ego boost I suppose, her telling me how much better/bigger I was than him. Now I just need to erase the pain of her betrayal and I'm good to go.

Also, last night she called me after work (3:30am, she closed). She said she was just going to sleep in the parking lot, since she had to be back there at 9am. I told her I didn't want her to do that, it was dangerous. I told her she could come home and sleep if she wanted. So she agreed and drove back to our house (45 min drive). On the way she got pulled over, she was barely over the legal limit for drinking and driving. They could have taken her to jail for a dui, but instead they called me and told me I could come pick her up. So I went and got her and she cried the whole way home. When she got home her crying intensified even more. I held her and gave her a hug, told her it was okay. I think she's starting to realize she's self destructing It's sad

(Concerning STDs, I did not wear a condom. I have spoke to OM's wife and she said he doesn't have any STDs she knows of, and that she was just checked after delivering her baby a month ago. I still want my wife to get checked, guess this was just a lapse of weakness)


----------



## the guy

Yes ask her to take a STD test...even though.

The point here is another consequence that will bring the reality of what she did out there for her to face.

Just the possiblity of catching a desease may bring her futher out of the fog. IMHO your W needs to face this consequence, just like she is facing all the others that have been placed in her lap for her unhealthy choices. She needs to face this consequence of what she could have done to her phsyical health as well.

She may want to deny this possiblity, but she must face it and look at the reality of her cheating and the health risk this life style can lead to. It may lead to some preventive medicine in the future when she thinks she to weak to say no to the next guy. She may or may not think twice about cheating but she may think twice about using protection for her self so that she will be around long enough to watch her kids grow up.

At the very least this will educate her on the dangers of STD's and even if the two of you don't work out and she continues down this unhealthy life style at least she should know about safe sex.

Most here on TAM would demand a STD test from there wayward spouses.


Has there been any talk at all about her quiting the bar?


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## Wolfgar

@the guy

At this point, I'm pretty sure she thinks there's no way I want to be with her after all of this, so she has no incentive of wanting to quit the job...yet. I haven't given her any signs that I'd like to R. Just trying to give her space, let her realize what she's done and see how it plays out I suppose (that's why I think the sex may have complicated that process).

Do you guys think I should say something to her directly about R? Ask her something like, "What do you want to happen between us"? Or is this to soon? Should I let her come to me (I want to at least give things a chance and try to R)


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## Eli-Zor

If you want to R then make it clear you want her to make a choice, that choice must be immediate not one where she has to go away and think about it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Wolfgar

@ eli-zor
Yes but at the same time I want her to know I have enough respect for myself to be done with her and move on after her betrayal. 

I kind of feel like if I directly give her the option of R, this would show her "wow, Ive lied and lied, carried on this affair with a married man, even had sex in a hotel room after he was down in the parking lot with our kids, and even after all that he still wants me back". 

Doesn't that display weakness? I want her to understand what she's done and understand that I will never again put up with this shiiiit. That she just can't put a knife in my back and expect me to be there when she gets back. I want R, but it needs to be done right. Plus, at this point she's still in a fog and confused. I feel like I should see true remorse from her before asking her about R? But than again I dont want her to drift away b/c she thinks I want nothing to do with her


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## the guy

Tell her what you just told us!

"I see no remorse from you to R, do want to change that?"

You just banged her, so whats the point about self respect, it sound like that went out the window, so go ahead and tell her there is an open door for her to choose, but under your terms.

At least get the dialog open.


Again she works in a bar it won't be long before some little penis guy picks her up with his smooth talk and her weak boundries.


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## calif_hope

Tell her that you have not closed the door on R, but that their will be a lot to be done on both sides (words and action) and make it clear that the heavy lifting, the greater amount of work is in her side. NC absolute, disclosure and access to phone, PC, and accounts...new job ASAP...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri

Sean, ask yourself if you truly can handle R. Not many can, especially after the affair turns sexual. The ER (emotional roller coaster) can be very intense at times. For example let's say that after all that has happened both you and your wife chose to commit to marital R, and one day an argument came up, would you be able hold your tongue and never throw the affair in her face? If you can honestly answer yes, then you may want to convey this to her. Addressing the affair is something that will be done for purposes of helping the two of you to recover, but should never be used as a weapon to hurt each other.


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## Wolfgar

@morituri
I really truly do believe R is possible, but it largely depends on her. Like I said before all of this she said something changed inside of her, that she no longer wanted to be with me. I still dont know if that's still the case, or if that was largely due to her infatuation with him (I think it was). I believe I can forgive her, but for that to happen I need to know she's truly sorry and wants to be forgiven. I realize for real R to happen, things like this can't be constantly brought up in every argument and thrown into the other persons face (which is what I think she's afraid of, that I will never be able to get over this). 

I have a basketball game tonight, she's on her way over here with dinner for me and the boys. After I get back, perhaps I'll say a few words. See if I can't get her to open up and talk about our future or R. I still feel like she's lost though, she feels worthless. Not sure if this is the best time to bring it up?

Any more suggestions as to what I should say to her about R, while not coming off as needy...I need to convey my strength to her still, she needs to know that I'm more than prepared to let her go at this point. But I am willing to give R a shot


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## warlock07

> She sleep in bed with me and we did have sexIt was honestly pretty great, it lasted about an hour...I guess I was pissed off and wanted to show her what she threw away (and I was tipsy). She said the sex was amazing...so much better than with him. The next day after I sobered up, I kind of regretted it. I'll try to keep from doing that again until she's ready for real R. Although it was a bit of an ego boost I suppose, her telling me how much better/bigger I was than him.


don't believe one word of it. She said things to make you happy and you are lapping it up like an idiot. Its kinda pathetic how you are happy with this when she actually desired him and only came back when he dumped her. Doesn't matter if you are bigger, she still slept with him. I truly don't believe this is last of her indiscretions. She will either run back to him when he comes back and tells that you were lying to keep them separate or she will be easily manipulated by an another guy


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## Shaggy

She doesn't think you'd want her back, because no one should want someone who did what she did back,

She willing had sex in a hotel while her husband and son waited outside.

No I know you are overriding what should be done, and hoping to R, so your ignoring what makes sense here.

But you have to get around the part of her that does actually realize just how awful her actions have been.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## aug

Seangar said:


> She came over to see the boys the other night, we went to dinner as a family, had a few drinks together when we got home. She sleep in bed with me and we did have sex It was honestly pretty great, it lasted about an hour...I guess I was pissed off and wanted to show her what she threw away (and I was tipsy). *She said the sex was amazing...so much better than with him.* The next day after I sobered up, I kind of regretted it. I'll try to keep from doing that again until she's ready for real R. Although it was a bit of an ego boost I suppose, her telling me how much better/bigger I was than him. Now I just need to erase the pain of her betrayal and I'm good to go.



Well, what did you expect her to say?

Now that you had sex with her after the OM did without a condom, let's hope she's not pregnant. You'll have to get a paternity test for the baby and, if not yours, support the OM's child.


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## golfergirl

Seangar said:


> Well it's been a few days, she still hasn't really tried to talk to me about anything concerning our relationship. I think she's more bitter about the OM running back to his wife than anything. It's obvious she's in pain, she feels disgusted in herself by letting this happen...by being so naive and getting thrown out right after her and the OM had sex for the first time. She called him a coward. I asked, why...b/c he wouldn't leave his family for you? She cried and she said you should have heard the things he told me, he wanted to be with me and not his wife, he made me feel so special, blah blah (pretty hard for me to hear that shiiit while keeping my cool, but I did). I told her, well I tried telling you from the beginning, he would never leave his wife for you, all you were was a piece of a$$ for him...you knew what you were getting into and you did it anyways.
> 
> She came over to see the boys the other night, we went to dinner as a family, had a few drinks together when we got home. She sleep in bed with me and we did have sex It was honestly pretty great, it lasted about an hour...I guess I was pissed off and wanted to show her what she threw away (and I was tipsy). She said the sex was amazing...so much better than with him. The next day after I sobered up, I kind of regretted it. I'll try to keep from doing that again until she's ready for real R. Although it was a bit of an ego boost I suppose, her telling me how much better/bigger I was than him. Now I just need to erase the pain of her betrayal and I'm good to go.
> 
> Also, last night she called me after work (3:30am, she closed). She said she was just going to sleep in the parking lot, since she had to be back there at 9am. I told her I didn't want her to do that, it was dangerous. I told her she could come home and sleep if she wanted. So she agreed and drove back to our house (45 min drive). On the way she got pulled over, she was barely over the legal limit for drinking and driving. They could have taken her to jail for a dui, but instead they called me and told me I could come pick her up. So I went and got her and she cried the whole way home. When she got home her crying intensified even more. I held her and gave her a hug, told her it was okay. I think she's starting to realize she's self destructing It's sad
> 
> (Concerning STDs, I did not wear a condom. I have spoke to OM's wife and she said he doesn't have any STDs she knows of, and that she was just checked after delivering her baby a month ago. I still want my wife to get checked, guess this was just a lapse of weakness)


This makes me so sad. She's won. No consequences - just a bit of flattery (sad if you call being compared to another man an ego boost) and all is well. Double sad if that is your confident proof on STD check. Just because his wife is clear means a bit more than nothing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem

The fact that she's still bitter about being thrown under the bus by the OM shows that *the sex with you is only an attempt at manipulation*, you're not near the stage for hysterical bonding yet. 

Oh, she only just dodged the bullet on that DUI. Since the preliminary breath test showed she was only barely over the legal limit, by the time they processed her and had the official breath test, she would have been under it, so it wasn't worth the effort. Next time she won't be as lucky. Sooner or later, if she continues to drink and drive, she will get popped for it.


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## CH

She called him a coward. I asked, why...b/c he wouldn't leave his family for you? She cried and she said you should have heard the things he told me, he wanted to be with me and not his wife, he made me feel so special, blah blah 

Well at least you came in 2nd place and still got a prize of some sorts.


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## lordmayhem

cheatinghubby said:


> Well at least you came in 2nd place and still got a prize of some sorts.


:iagree:

She should be bitter about being used as a piece of ass, but instead she's bitter about OM not leaving his wife and family for her.


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## JustaJerk

> Well at least *you came in 2nd place and still got a prize of some sorts*.


That one even hurt me, and I'm the Jerk around here.


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## Tall Average Guy

calif_hope said:


> Tell her that you have not closed the door on R, but that their will be a lot to be done on both sides (words and action) and make it clear that the heavy lifting, the greater amount of work is in her side. NC absolute, disclosure and access to phone, PC, and accounts...new job ASAP...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


While she does have a lot of heavy lifting to do, so do you. Prior to this, you cheated multiple times. The choice to remain in the marriage is not just yours, and without some remorse for your lies, she may decide you are not worth it. In fact, had she come here before her affair, the advice she received from many would have included leaving you because you are a serial cheater.

None of this justifies what she did. In some ways, what she did was worse, in other ways perhaps not. But I write this to remind you that you do not just get to sit back and make her jump through hoops to fix your marriage. You need to own the $h!t you brought to the table and the lies and cheating that you did when things got “rough.” You will have some of your own heavy lifting to do if your marriage is going to survive.


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## warlock07

> Well at least you *came in 2nd place* and still got a prize of some sorts.


Is that a double entendre or is my mind in the gutter?


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## turnera

Seangar said:


> At this point, I'm pretty sure she thinks there's no way I want to be with her after all of this, so she has no incentive of wanting to quit the job...yet. I haven't given her any signs that I'd like to R.


Let's see...in the last 3 days, you took her to dinner, you took her home and got her drunk, you had *sex* with her after she betrayed you, you told her the next night to come home so she wouldn't sleep in the car for 5 hours, and you rescued her when she was pulled over, and you fed her again. Oh, and now you'll have to have a paternity test if she comes up pregnant.

If you're trying to make her think you don't want her, you're doing a pretty poor job of it.

And all she had to do was sob a bit and tell you you're bigger.

Geesh.


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## Wolfgar

turnera said:


> Let's see...in the last 3 days, you took her to dinner, you took her home and got her drunk, you had *sex* with her after she betrayed you, you told her the next night to come home so she wouldn't sleep in the car for 5 hours, and you rescued her when she was pulled over, and you fed her again. Oh, and now you'll have to have a paternity test if she comes up pregnant.
> 
> If you're trying to make her think you don't want her, you're doing a pretty poor job of it.
> 
> And all she had to do was sob a bit and tell you you're bigger.
> 
> Geesh.


Seems like a most of you have felt the sting of being betrayed by a spouse. It no doubt leaves a lasting scar. But where are all the pro-marriage people? I still love my wife, I want to be with her. She's the one that actually took us out to dinner...and of course I'm going to pick her up and not let her get a dui and ruin her life. She's at a horrible spot in her life, I do believe she needs space to figure things out, but she also needs to know she has someone there that genuinely cares for her (compared to just throwing her away). Regardless of if I'm with her or not, I care about her and don't mind helping her (she's the mother of my kids). Even if we're not together, I don't want to hate her for what she's done. Perhaps I am being a little to nice a little to soon...I have to do a better job of controlling myself. She does need to feel the consequences of what she's done...she's still not living here. A lot of you are giving opposing advice. Some of you think I should let her move in immediately and begin R (which I dont think I can do until she figures things out for herself). Others say I should "man up" do the "180" and let her come crawling back to me (I believe she's already disgusted in herself and doesnt think I want her, so this would push her further away). I guess I'm taking an approach that's a hybrid of both of those.


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## Eli-Zor

Read my posts again, ask her if she wants to R , if yes she moves home abiding to the marital boundaries and requirements to protect the marriage . If the answer is no, maybe, perhaps then file .

If she does want to R she has to leave her job today, you in turn commit to her and actively seek and get a job . She is in an environment that will always be open to problems .

Make the call to her and together make a decision ?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SadSamIAm

I think the message that most are trying to convey is that if you just let her come back without any real consequences, then ...

1) You will have a more difficult time trusting her
2) She will be more likely to cheat again

If you do the 180, let her really feel the pain and know that you won't tolerate cheating then, if you do reconcile ...

1) You will see her remorse and will have an easier time trusting her
2) She will be less likely to cheat again, because she will know that she will lose you.

Standing up for yourself and showing that you will go on without her is attractive to women. They like knowing that their man is strong enough and confident enough to live without them. They like knowing that their man has firm boundaries and won't be taken advantage of.


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## Dadof3

I am along the lines of Eli-Zor's recommendation above. Put it out there and ask for a quick decision with the requirements for R being known up front - which would apply to BOTH of you in this case. This is as pro-marriage is you can get!

No more of that softie stuff until she shows some heavy lifting. BTW - I would consider Sean's willingness to bring her back in - provided NC, transparency requirements are met at this point - would be considered "heavy lifting" somewhat in my book, considering he has little room to lord this over her. 

The big difference between the two (and NO justification for his having done this in the past) is that she did this with both eyes WIDE OPEN and kids and hubby in hotel lobby! 

Reality is, Sean, if she doesn't want to meet the requirements to R, you both WILL be better off divorcing and pursuing healthier relationships. Could the affairs on both sides lead to better bonding / marriage? I'm not an expert so I have no idea, could be though. Could be.

This can be presented to her as the opportunity to make a clean break, as long as the NC, transparency, and heavy lifting requirements are met and move forward. 

Poor kids. this is where I feel the worst. Kids get to see drama like they should never have had to. 

Bring the family back together, if the conditions are met. Do it quick, or move on.


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## Yardman

turnera said:


> Let's see...in the last 3 days, you took her to dinner, you took her home and got her drunk, you had *sex* with her after she betrayed you, you told her the next night to come home so she wouldn't sleep in the car for 5 hours, and you rescued her when she was pulled over, and you fed her again. Oh, and now you'll have to have a paternity test if she comes up pregnant.
> 
> If you're trying to make her think you don't want her, you're doing a pretty poor job of it.
> 
> And all she had to do was sob a bit and tell you you're bigger.
> 
> Geesh.



Yeah, she is a good MAN-ip-U-Later.

I don't think Sean is try to make her think he doesn't want her. He want her to show remorse, which she hasn't and most likely won't unless he changes his interactions with her.

Sean, sent you a pm, but it's not showing as sent...

I can understand why you had fast and furious sex with her. Not a smart move, but I get why. If it happens again, USE CONDOMS!!! That action will send a clear message to her that words can never come close too. Buy some!!! Just in case you fall off the 180 wagon.

How is the job hunt going? That is probably one of the huge elephants in the room that led up to this that doesn't require spending hard to find money on therapy. I'm sure the bar doesn't have an EAP.

Deal with anger by working out or punching something that won't break your fist. If you cant get to a gym, make a punching bag out of a duffle bag. Heck, put POSOM's face on it. Yell profanity while you are getting rid of your anger.


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## ArmyofJuan

Seangar said:


> Seems like a most of you have felt the sting of being betrayed by a spouse. It no doubt leaves a lasting scar. But where are all the pro-marriage people?


I used to think like this too, it made me ignore the advice I was given at the time which was a mistake. Most of these people are pro-marriage but you need to understand that the old marriage is over and trying to recreate it will end in failure.

Sometimes the best way to save a marriage is to try to end it.

In 6 months, you'll be giving the same advice to people we are giving you now.


> I still love my wife, I want to be with her. She's the one that actually took us out to dinner...and of course I'm going to pick her up and not let her get a dui and ruin her life. She's at a horrible spot in her life, I do believe she needs space to figure things out, but she also needs to know she has someone there that genuinely cares for her (compared to just throwing her away).


She tried throwing you away, why reward her for that?

This makes you sound like an enabler. Being a safety net means she’s only with you because it’s better than being on the streets. If she won the lotto tomorrow she would be long gone.


> Regardless of if I'm with her or not, I care about her and don't mind helping her (she's the mother of my kids). Even if we're not together, I don't want to hate her for what she's done. Perhaps I am being a little to nice a little to soon...


Don’t let your feelings for her cloud your judgment. Being nice never works long term. Right now she wants to use you and you are not earning any respect by becoming a doormat. She brought this on herself, don’t try to save her from suffering the consequences of her poor choices. 



> A lot of you are giving opposing advice. Some of you think I should let her move in immediately and begin R (which I dont think I can do until she figures things out for herself).


You can’t let her back in or even think of R until she is begging and pleading with you to take her back. This means admitting it’s all her fault and telling you things like she doesn’t deserve you and the like. Also she must HATE the OM.



> Others say I should "man up" do the "180" and let her come crawling back to me (I believe she's already disgusted in herself and doesnt think I want her, so this would push her further away). I guess I'm taking an approach that's a hybrid of both of those.


Tough love is the right choice; it will NOT push her away. The more you reject her the more she will want you. 

She betrayed and disrespected you and the marriage. You would be a fool to just be the nice guy and let her get away with it. What will she learn? That at the end of the day you won’t leave her and she knows how to talk her way back in when/if she does this again. Don’t assume like I did that she “learned her lesson” because her A didn’t pan out.


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## Yardman

I agree with Dadof3 on the time table. "Bring the family back together, if the conditions are met. Do it quick, or move on."

Make your conditions known to her. Do you know what your conditions are? Ask her what her conditions are. Sounds crazy, but that can give you good insight to where her head is at. 

If you want a "R" , and have terms on conditions, go with the flow, keep your eyes open to signs she ain't into it. You will kinda have to be a probation officer, lover, husband, and dad. Are you willing to do all that? What about anger issues concerning her in-your-face sex with OM?

You can also call it quits. Your choice, and hers.


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## turnera

Seangar said:


> Seems like a most of you have felt the sting of being betrayed by a spouse. It no doubt leaves a lasting scar.


Not me. Never been cheated on that I know of - and he's had tons of chances - that he tells me about!

I just know psychology and I have been doing this for nearly 10 years now and I know which actions betrayed husbands take that work, and which actions that don't work. 

You are desperate to keep your wife and it shows. She has been chemically changed due to the PEA chemicals in her brain from the affair. She is NOT your wife right now, she is an alien and, as such, is incapable of thinking like your wife. She will make ALL decisions based solely on one thing - to recreate that high she gets from the PEAs. She's an addict and you are nothing more than something to be used at the moment.

Now, if she goes long enough without seeing OM, she will go through a withdrawal and the old wife MAY return. But if you make the mistake right now of letting her suffer no real consequences - and so far, there have been few - she will not shake the PEAs out of her system. If you let her back now, you will have to rule with an iron thumb to ensure she doesn't cheat again. And odds are good that, with her shattered ego, she'll hunt out ANOTHER guy just to recreate that high she's missing.

In my experience, every wayward who has returned without coming to the betrayed figuratively on their knees has reverted to cheating again. Every one. Why? Because they sequed right from the cheating high to being the pampered spouse again, and learned nothing. Hey, I got away with it once, he didn't seem all that upset, after all, I'm home, aren't I? It must not be a big deal to him if I get some on the side.


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## working_together

Seangar said:


> @ eli-zor
> Yes but at the same time I want her to know I have enough respect for myself to be done with her and move on after her betrayal.
> 
> I kind of feel like if I directly give her the option of R, this would show her "wow, Ive lied and lied, carried on this affair with a married man, even had sex in a hotel room after he was down in the parking lot with our kids, and even after all that he still wants me back".
> 
> Doesn't that display weakness? I want her to understand what she's done and understand that I will never again put up with this shiiiit. That she just can't put a knife in my back and expect me to be there when she gets back. I want R, but it needs to be done right. Plus, at this point she's still in a fog and confused. I feel like I should see true remorse from her before asking her about R? But than again I dont want her to drift away b/c she thinks I want nothing to do with her


Having sex with your wife displays total weakness, in my opinion, she already knows "you're good to go".


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## Wolfgar

Thanks everyone for your advice

Basically sounds like there's two options...

1. Make a quick decision to R or not (even though she still doesn't know and says she's numb feeling). Let her move back in and get my family together as soon as possible. Give her my requirements for a successful R. 

2. Keep doing the 180, wait for her to crawl back to me and feel the consequences and real remorse of what she's done. Which risks her thinking I don't want her anymore and perhaps enables her to search out another man.

Tough choices and honestly I'm not sure which road to take. Like I said, I guess I've been doing a mixture of both. I feel like she's still not ready to talk and she hasn't had time to figure everything out. Would she be able to do this while still living at home with us?

EDIT: She's at the house and I said something to her about her being numb. I told her she can't just be numb and expect everything that's going on to change or go away. She said she is confused and doesn't know what to do going forward. I asked for more specifics. She said she doesn't know if she should go and be on her own or if we should try to salvage something out of our marriage. I told her yea, that's something we need to talk about. That was pretty much the end of the conversation.


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## Locard

Sean, you're a mess bud. You have no plan nor focus. I can't fault you for though. I think you need to think about a plan, one of the plans you can find here, and stick with it. Be strong!

Edit to say, darn you posted the same time about what I was hoping you would do!


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## Locard

Can't do a mixture of both! If you go down the middle of the road you will be run over!


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## Shaggy

Sean,

Your spinning because you are trying to cover all the bases, but you don't even knows game is being played.

Stop and focus.

You want her back? The only way you will get her back is for her to decide to return and work on the marriage.

To do tat she needs time to come to terms with just who awful she has acted.

She also needs to know that you will consider R, but with terms.

Tell her the door is open if she chooses you walk back into the families lives and the marriage. But you won't have her back because she feels she has no other option, or if she sees or treats you as the fall back option. Only as option A and her choice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem

Seangar, you seem stuck on the emotional roller coaster right now. Stay on the 180, that will lessen the highs and the lows of the roller coaster.


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## Dadof3

Shaggy said what I said better.


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## Locard

Yup, pretty sure the 180 doesn't involve sex!


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## skip76

This would be my plan. Very tough love until she eventually asks the question you are looking for. Can we salvage this? You say, haven't seen any reason from you to try. She will say something to the effect, what can I do? You say, you moved heaven and earth to be with him and all I get is that? You figure it out cause I don't see any reason Her head will be spinning?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Seangar said:


> Keep doing the 180, wait for her to crawl back to me and feel the consequences and real remorse of what she's done. Which risks her thinking I don't want her anymore and perhaps enables her to search out another man.


That is very easily solved. VERY easily. And it has been suggested to you several times. All it requires is for you to make a list of what you would require - all her passwords, a NC letter to OM, therapy for her AND MC, spending 15 hours a week together, maybe a postnup agreement, whatever else you need - and you look her in the eyes, hand her the list, and say "I want you back, but not like this. This is what I would require for us to get back together." And then you walk away.



> She said she doesn't know if she should go and be on her own or if we should try to salvage something out of our marriage. I told her yea, that's something we need to talk about. That was pretty much the end of the conversation.


A BIG wasted opportunity for you to say 'I would LOVE to salvage something, but it will require some changes on both our parts. Starting with you proving to me why I should trust you again.'

But you didn't. Because your #1 fear is she will leave you. And it shows. She has no reason to do anything, she can sense that all she has to do is wait you out.


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## Wolfgar

Alright guys, I borrowed some money from a friend...bought her a ring. I'm going to re-propose to her tonight. Wish me luck

edit: joking


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## morituri

Seangar said:


> Alright guys, I borrowed some money from a friend...bought her a ring. I'm going to re-propose to her tonight. Wish me luck
> 
> edit: joking


Good. I was on the verge of saying to you :wtf:


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## Wolfgar

Last night we talked. I told her I was open to the idea of R and I gave her my terms. I told her I wasn't sure if our marriage could be fixed, but I was at least willing to try. She told me she doesn't know what she wants, that she hasn't had time to figure things out. That she feels it would be unfair to me to try and R if she couldn't put everything she had into it. I agreed. I told her I was perfectly prepared to move on without her, but if we were going to try and R...the sooner we tried the better. So as of now I'm giving her more time to "absorb" everything she's done. Do you feel like this is the right thing to do? Or should I ask for an immediate decision and just move on. I understand she's got a lot going through her head and shes confused about how she feels for me (in her eyes if she loved me how could she have did what she did to me), but I'm done sitting on the fence. Either we put effort into R, or I say f it and move on.


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## JustaJerk

She's waffling. Either she wants to be with you, or not. What's there to think about? If she loved you; she wouldn't hesitate.


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## Sindo

You can't have genuine R with someone who doesn't want it. She's still deep in the fog right now, and clearly isn't ready.

I think it's sensible to wait, but not indefinitely. Set yourself a fixed timeframe for how long you are prepared to wait before moving on. You've said your piece about R. Now get back onto the 180 and stick to it.

Be prepared for the possibility that she might never want to R.


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## warlock07

Sean, maybe you need IC. I am thinking that she is letting you down nicely that she doesn't want an R.


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## turnera

Tell yourself that if she hasn't turned around by Jan. 31, you are filing. Or whatever fits. And then forget about it and start putting your life back together without her until the 31st.


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## warlock07

He is re-proposing her when all this **** happened. He is delusional/becoming one. I wish Sean all the best for his life.


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## Wolfgar

@turnera

I like that Idea, infact I may even move that Date up to Jan 1st. What better way to start off a new year, with a new life. I hope she comes around, but I've said what I had to say...its up to her now.




warlock07 said:


> He is re-proposing her when all this **** happened. He is delusional/becoming one. I wish Sean all the best for his life.


haha and I said that was a joke. Figured this post could use a little humor


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## Shaggy

Sorry, but the ongoing "I don't know right now..." is BS.

I can see it in the first couple of hours after the event, but this woman has years with her family etc. If she had any feelings of remorse or love in her she'd be running back fast to make it work.

This fence sitting is her telling you that you no longer interest her. She no longer respects you, worries about your feelings, etc.

Her having sex with him in that hotel that night showed her true choices and feelings about you and the kids. It goes beyond her affair. 

Think about the emotional core of a woman who with her husband and kids in the car outside, and after having spoken with a cop, could turn around and get in the mood. - only a woman who think has no care or interest in their feelings. None at all.

So I don't think she is struggling with her decision to be that woman, she is just struggling with how to finally end her connection with the family.


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## morituri

Sean, you know very well that filing for divorce does not instantaneously make you a divorced man. It will be months before it becomes finalized and in those months, your wife will either step up to the plate or will continue being in the 'fog'. Furthermore, while it doesn't happen in all cases, the cheating wife after she has been served, often starts changing her view of her betrayed husband from a doormat to a man with sexual value, especially if said husband starts going out on dates with other women - no with the intention of getting into a sexual relationship but as a way of making platonic friendships with members of the opposite sex. So filing for divorce is a win-win situation for you no matter what the outcome of the marriage will be.


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## Dadof3

Yeah - I wouldn't let her fence-sit. She's either in, or she's not. Get on with your life. If she wants back in it, she'll let you know she's ready to accept your requirements. Otherwise, 180 and move on with your life. 

Such as sad situation!


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## warlock07

> Think about the emotional core of a woman who with her husband and kids in the car outside, and after having spoken with a cop, could turn around and get in the mood. - only a woman who think has no care or interest in their feelings. None at all.


:iagree:


I think that us forum posters are more pissed off about this issue than Sean. He seems to be cool about this. I see him making a post about how he should have left her earlier in a couple of months. Like the WS, most of the BS seem to have script too. 

Sean, are you on any medication? Sometimes depression meds remove feelings. I did read in a different forum where the husband was asking why he is feeling ndifferent when his wife was cheating on him. On the advice of other forum members he stopped taking medication and **** hit the fan.


----------



## the guy

Yes it is a script and a proven one, but some people like limbo so take the soft stance and see what happens. Its just a matter of time before her current enviorment produces the same behavior.

Sooner or later man, sooner or later...........


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## Tall Average Guy

warlock07 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> 
> I think that us forum posters are more pissed off about this issue than Sean. He seems to be cool about this. I see him making a post about how he should have left her earlier in a couple of months. Like the WS, most of the BS seem to have script too.


I suspect some of it is because Sean is facing the same issues that his wife is. He knows that if this is going to work, he will need to show her full transparency, remorse and a willingness to own his own $h!t. He swept his adultery under the rug a few years ago, and this stuff will now need to come out. My guess is that he is not looking forward to that.


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## Wolfgar

Well I guess after letting her know last night that I'm open to R...all I can do now is move on with my life and give her the time she needs to figure things out. Until she makes the move and shows me she's truly sorry, R isn't possible. So far she hasn't done that. 

*@shaggy*
"I can see it in the first couple of hours after the event, but this woman has years with her family etc. If she had any feelings of remorse or love in her she'd be running back fast to make it work."

I agree with a lot of what you've said. I was hoping that him leaving her and running back to his family would be the wake up call she needed, but apparently not...at least not yet. It has only been a week since the hotel incident. She's been working none stop, hasn't really had time to absorb anything. She's still in the fog. She has a therapist appointment next week, we'll see what happens with some therapy/time. She's admitted that somethings wrong with her to be able to do what she has done to me and our kids...she says she still feels numb

*@morituri*
If things don't change within the next week I will probably progress with the divorce proceedings. Eventually I plan on dating other women, but honestly that's the last thing on my mind right now. But yes it may serve as a good way to wake her up.

*@dadof*
I'm not sure she has a choice in fence sitting or not, she's still in the fog and she's still deeply confused. And I can't really demand an immediate answer from her. From her end, she questions her love for me...shes thinking...how can I be in love with my husband and do this to him and have an affair with a married man? She's told me she doesn't want to hurt me anymore and she's afraid that if we try and R she wouldn't be able to put the effort in that I deserve. 

*@warlock*
No meds for me (although she is on anti depressants), but trust me I'm pretty depressed. I've lost about 20lbs since all of this has happened...but I honestly feel healthy and look the best I have in years. I've flown of the handle a few times, like I've said in previous posts, so trust me I care deeply about what she's done...its the hardest thing I've ever had to deal without side of my parents both passing away. I guess now I'm at the point where I'm beginning to detach and things aren't bothering me as much as they used to. I feel like this isn't her, that she's had a sort of mid life crisis and needs professional help.

*@the guy*
Right now I think the last thing she wants is to get involved with another man, but sure...if things don't change it's bound to happen later on down the road. I think right now she honestly just wants to figure things out for herself...she's done a complete 180 (not the good kind) as a person. Before this she was honest, loving, selfless, would go out of her way for anyone, great mother, great wife, hard worker, she was disgusted in people with no morals and spouses that cheated.


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## the guy

Thats the best thing you can do "move on" sometimes you just have to "let them go".

Work on your self man and don't let this crap define who you are. Be positive and its not what knocks us down that counts, its how we get back up that matters.


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## Chaparral

turnera said:


> Tell yourself that if she hasn't turned around by Jan. 31, you are filing. Or whatever fits. And then forget about it and start putting your life back together without her until the 31st.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Yardman

Sean, how are things?


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## Wolfgar

Well the fog seems to have lifted. She's back to loving me and wants to R. She's afraid that I'll never be able to forgive her, she said it kills her knowing how disgusted and ashamed I am of her...and so on. I haven't let her move back in yet. If I'm going to put my heart and soul into R, I'd like to make sure it's the real deal. I don't want to just sweet this under the rug and have it happen again a few years down the road when we hit another rough patch or she has another mental break down. 

I've told her for R to be possible there are somethings that need to change...
1. She needs to find a new job (the OM's friends have came into her work, they supposedly don't know about the affair. But they still talk to her about him, they told her he wasn't allowed to come in there anymore. So even if he's not coming in there she's still reminded of him)
2. We need MC
3. Sign a post-nup giving me all of our belongings and full custody if she cheats on me again (not sure this is legal, but regardless if it isn't I'll have something drawn up even if it can't be used in court)
4. She must get counselling for herself
5. Transparency with all passwords/email accounts/fb (still have gps she doesn't know about)
6. She needs to stop smoking (something she picked up at her bar job)
7. Work on communicating with each other...be as open and honest as possible (this may be hard to enforce)
8. She needs to start giving me more BJ's (I've gotten about 1 per year for 10 years) Jk...but not really

What do you guys think? Anything else? How can I insure a proper R? How can I know she's really learned from what she's done and would never do it again?


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## Eli-Zor

Having this list is a start, now what is on your list for you to do? Suggest you start with " get a job". She cannot be left to feel she is the only bread winner particularly since cash is so short .

Take this as an observation from an outsider , you let your wife work in a bar to make money. Get off your ass and find employment , show her you have enough metal to do what needs to be done to bring in money.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sadcalifornian

I am so glad that things are finally looking up. As for the list, well, I would be a bit careful with #3 post-nup. It may make you look bad focusing on material compensation from this marriage due to the fact you haven't been working for a while. If she is very willing to agree without much arguing, this certainly would be another added insurance that she won't do this ever again. But....

With #8, you are joking, right? Well, if you want to throw some humor in it, go right ahead. Be careful not to spoil your serious intent being suddenly goofy throwing in stuff like this.


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## Shaggy

dump #3 - not worth the bother

#5 - you should give each other your passwords

#9 she writes a no contact letter to the OM, and an appology letter to OMW

#8 - do not give up #8

#10 - date nights for the two of you twice a week - even if it's to just walk down the street holding hands.


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## morituri

Seangar said:


> She's afraid that I'll never be able to forgive her, she said it kills her knowing how disgusted and ashamed I am of her...and so on.


How was she able to forgive you for your affairs? Remember that you cannot claim the moral high ground since you cheated on her in the past, so ask her. If she's truly forgiven you for yours then tell her you can do the same but to give you some healthy processing time.



> 3. Sign a post-nup giving me all of our belongings and full custody if she cheats on me again (not sure this is legal, but regardless if it isn't I'll have something drawn up even if it can't be used in court)


I would nix this one. Many women have the need to feel secure emotionally and financially. This one may have the effect of keeping her detached from you. JMO.


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## TDSC60

Post Nups are BS. Drop it. I've seen them tossed in court more often than not ( come to think of it I've only seen a few, but the judge just laughed at them all and tossed them). All the W has to say is that she was under stress when she signed and boom! Paper goes into the round file never to be seen again.

Work on your list.

While you're at it. Work on a list of things that you commit to do if R is possible and give that list to her as well. Taking responsibility for your short-comings and committing to fix them goes a long way. But make it clear the affair was her choice and don't let her blame it on things that you did or did not do in the past.

Sounds like you two COULD have a better marriage in the future. Good luck.


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## the guy

Even if a pretup is worthless in court (talk to a lawyer) the statement alone tells your wife how serious you are and how serious it is for her to commit to the marriage. 

Having a writen document telling your W that the next time it is over and this is her one and only chance and have her sign this believing she will lose everything if she does it again makes a very loud and clear statement that you are and willing to not tolorating her bad behaviors now or in the future.


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## Chaparral

the guy said:


> Even if a pretup is worthless in court (talk to a lawyer) the statement alone tells your wife how serious you are and how serious it is for her to commit to the marriage.
> 
> Having a writen document telling your W that the next time it is over and this is her one and only chance and have her sign this believing she will lose everything if she does it again makes a very loud and clear statement that you are and willing to not tolorating her bad behaviors now or in the future.


From your history, you should put in the post nup, whether its valid or not, that if either spouse cheats the other spouse gets everything. Including primary custody. It may even be more enforceable that way.


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## Sindo

The list is fine, but conditions on that list need to apply equally to you if applicable. Although her affair is fresh, you have no solid claim to the high ground.

That means if you have a post-nup, if you cheat, your wife should get all your belongings and full custody. Same goes for transparency. You get her passwords, then she gets yours.

You should also consider asking her if she could prepare a list of things that she wants from you. You both need to do some heavy lifting.


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## turnera

I agree. If you don't agree to make it work for BOTH of you, why bother? It's not like you can claim high moral ground.


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## Wolfgar

I agree with all of you, this list will apply to both of us. I'm not claiming any kind of moral high ground and I know it will take effort on both our parts to get past this, learn from our mistakes, and create a stronger marriage with one another. But what she did is very fresh, I still have bouts of anger. I'll feel fine, then out of no where the thoughts of what she did will pop into my mind and I'll feel awful. I will admit, it's nice having her back home...and it feels good to see her love for me returning. We'll see what happens

(I'll take the post nup Idea out of the list...seems to negative)


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## Yardman

Best Wishes on your marriage and job hunt

Did she move back home or is she at her Dad's house? Just asking cause in the post above," I will admit, it's nice having her back home", and on the previous post, " I haven't let her move back in yet."


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## turnera

Didn't you just tell her last week about your cheating?


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## Wolfgar

@yardman 
Yea she stayed the night Sunday and has gradually been moving her stuff back in. 

@turnera
Yes I told her about my cheating. She honestly hasn't really brought it up since the night I told her...I guess b/c we weren't married when it first happened...and seperated and not living together the other time (and she had a phone sex relationship)...she doesn't really believe it compares. 


She saw a therapist on Monday, it seemed to go well. He gave her a book to read, "After the Affair: healing the pain and rebuilding trust" (has anyone heard of it?) That night we had a long talk, she feels horrible and disgusted in herself and is fully committed to doing whatever it takes to reconcile. I feel like she is genuinely sorry.

It's crazy how these affairs play out, after reading so many stories on here they are all essentially the same. It's honestly scary to me how a person can completely be transformed by the intoxicating emotions brought on by the excitement of the affair. I wish I would have had the information I have now when I originally discovered it, I handled it totally wrong and probably pushed her closer to him (would have been nice to end this before that night at the hotel). I am happy she's back to "normal", but at the same time MY emotional fog has also began to life...and it's still hard for me to accept what she's done (especially when I sit back and reflect on everything that has happened). This all feels like a nightmare.


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## Beowulf

Seangar said:


> @yardman
> Yea she stayed the night Sunday and has gradually been moving her stuff back in.
> 
> @turnera
> Yes I told her about my cheating. She honestly hasn't really brought it up since the night I told her...I guess b/c we weren't married when it first happened...and seperated and not living together the other time (and she had a phone sex relationship)...she doesn't really believe it compares.
> 
> 
> She saw a therapist on Monday, it seemed to go well. He gave her a book to read, "After the Affair: healing the pain and rebuilding trust" (has anyone heard of it?) That night we had a long talk, she feels horrible and disgusted in herself and is fully committed to doing whatever it takes to reconcile. I feel like she is genuinely sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> It's crazy how these affairs play out, after reading so many stories on here they are all essentially the same. It's honestly scary to me how a person can completely be transformed by the intoxicating emotions brought on by the excitement of the affair. I am happy she's back to "normal", but at the same time MY emotional fog has also began to life...and it's still hard for me to accept what she's done (especially when I sit back and reflect on everything that has happened). This all feels like a nightmare.


Remember that the WS is getting a large dose of dopamine in the brain because of the affair. Dopamine is also released when someone does cocaine. When you think about it in those terms it makes it somewhat less surprising about the personality change. I've read that book. It's very good.


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## Dadof3

Make sure she reconciles with you as Plan A - not Plan B. Think about that for a moment.


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## Wolfgar

@beowulf
Yep, that's what I keep telling myself...and I think it's honestly the only way I can forgive her...believing that this wasn't really her. Throughout all of this she acted identical to a drug addict (which i sadly have experience with, my dad). She did whatever it took, lied, destroyed relationships, stopping being a mother, didn't care what pain she caused me or those around her...all so she could get her "fix". She acted totally outside her character and sacrificed who she was as a person for this. 

@dadof
I will indeed


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