# He wants to come home



## AFallenAngel (Jun 10, 2015)

My husband has been gone 5 days now and wants to come home. He was removed by police and I haven't taken out a restraining order yet because there are two kinds and I haven't decided if I want a full no contact or there is a nonviolence order that allows for contact and for him to be in the house but if he touches me, it's an automatic arrest. I am a stay at home mom and we need to be able to discuss finances, insurance and things like that. 

We have two kids and he has not even taken them for a visit. He Txts them but that's about it. His parents are pretty happy because they hate me and according to him have been telling him what to do to "screw me over" even IF he and I were to work things out, I know his parents are in the background preparing him to basically ambush me in a divorce. 

I told him that I am promising nothing but if he wants to keep in contact with me that he has to own up to what he did and find a way to understand that everything he did was wrong. 

I admit that I'm not perfect but refuse to take ANY responsibility for the abuse he has done to me and inadvertently to the kids. He doesn't understand that physically hitting me and sexually abusing me trickles down to them in many ways.

I am angry and rightfully so. I have been violated in every way possible and when he was here I lived in my bedroom so I could stay away from him. But in doing that I have missed out on many things with my kids. 

Now that he is gone, I have been comfortable being out and about and while I get depressed, it's because of what's happening right now and it comes in bursts. When he's here I have no energy or motivation. I don't want to give that up. 

But I am so confused over what to do and will not make any decisions until my brain has calmed down and had some time to process some of these things. I hope this is the right way to handle it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ange7 (Jul 2, 2015)

I'm sure the 5 days away has taught him a valuable lesson and once you reopen your home and your arms to this gentle, loving man, things will be amazing and you'll be glad you gave him another chance.

Just make sure you keep a can of mace handy in case he hasn't fully redeemed himself.

You know those urges to beat and sexually abuse a person don't always disappear overnight.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Why would you want to get back with someone who abuses you?

Have you found a counselor that deals with victims of abuse? You really need to do that because you need help in learning to love yourself and protect yourself and your children. He might not be abusing them directly.. but he does harm then when he harms you.

Of course he wants to come back right now. He wants any possibility of any charges and restraining order to be put to rest. If he goes into divorce with these on his record, he will be have a hard time. 

You say that his parents are busy coaching him on how to screw you over. Well this could very well be something that they are telling him to do. You see if you take him back and do not pursue the charges and restraining order, none of his abuse will count in the divorce. Why? Because he can argue that you made false accusations. After all if he had abused you, why would you let him back in your life and to live with you? 

What might very well happen if you continue to pursue the charges and restraining order is that he will be ordered to anger management classes and counseling.

You go to counseling yourself. 

See a lawyer to get at least a legal separation (or a divorce if you want) in place. This will give you child and spousal support. It will also establish custody of the children.

At this point it's important for you to establish that you have primary custody. Right now he can get your children and refuse to return them to you. Then you would have to go to court and fight him. So get custody locked down NOW. Do you really want him to have primary custody? His mother will be raising your children. Protect your children.

I think you want to feel like he loves you. You want the guy who he is in his best moments. That is why you are thinking of letting him back. You want that guy. Well he's not that guy. He's an emotionally and physically abusive person.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

oko said:


> Why people stay with abusers is a subject that this poor, lost, confused, and probably terrified woman is in no way able to even begin to answer.
> 
> Unfortunately not only is she placing herself back in danger but she's doing the same thing to her innocent children.


I agree with you. But it does not hurt to ask her to think of the question.

I know part of the reason. The hormone oxytocin is the hormone that bonds people and make them feel in-love.

In a good relationship, all the good things, keep your brains producing lots of it.

When a woman gives child birth, she produces lot of oxytocin. It helps to numb the memory of the pain. Oxytocin is often called the amnesia hormone. Without it there would probably never be any second children because the memory of the pain would make women not want to have more. 

But in an abusive relationship something the brain does something that sabotages the victim. It produces lots of oxytocin (and other brain chemicals) to try to protect the victim. With abuse, the victim's brain produces and uptakes a lot of oxytocin to numb the memory of the abuse.

This is why abuse victims often say how much they love their abuser and seem unable to break away. Abuse strongly bonds a victim to their abuser.

In order to break away from the abuser, the victim needs to have no contact with their abuser so that the oxytocin cycle stops. Until it stops they will feel like they are in withdrawal (emotional pain).

I've read about studies that they did on girls who are abused when they are young. They often develop abnormal oxytocin responses the predisposes them to getting into abusive relationships as an adult.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

AFallenAngel,

Something else that I think you need to know.

Most women who are murdered by their significant other or spouse, are murdered the 3rd time they try to leave their abuser (SO/spouse).

Each time you try to break up with him, the danger to you goes up.


You need to take leaving him very seriously. An please, please get some counseling and support from an organization that helps women in your situation.


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## AFallenAngel (Jun 10, 2015)

ange7 said:


> I'm sure the 5 days away has taught him a valuable lesson and once you reopen your home and your arms to this gentle, loving man, things will be amazing and you'll be glad you gave him another chance.
> 
> Just make sure you keep a can of mace handy in case he hasn't fully redeemed himself.
> 
> You know those urges to beat and sexually abuse a person don't always disappear overnight.


I know those urges don't just disappear but I want to see him get help. Right now, he has a place to stay and he says he is going to meetings and reading. But he has to own up to what he did and I don't see that coming soon. But I will go to counseling with him as long as both he and the therapist understand that this is not an effort to get back together but more likely a preparation for an amicable divorce.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFallenAngel (Jun 10, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> AFallenAngel,
> 
> Something else that I think you need to know.
> 
> ...


I understand everything you are saying and I am taking it very seriously but my faith keeps telling me that God is greater than this and I believe that with all my heart. But I also know that we can pray and not get the answer we want and that each one of us has free will. 

All I want is for him to get help and the scariest thing if we get divorced is that he will have unsupervised visitation of the girls and I can't handle the thought of that. 

My gut instincts tell me Im an idiot to let him back but my moral side says that before I file for divorce, I need to do everything possible to change things first. But as of right now, I am happy with him gone and I like the feeling that I am safe in my bed or anywhere else in my house and I also understand that my feelings and confusion are from 18 years of brainwashing and abuse. 

As long as he has a place to stay, I am not saying yes. If it so happens that he no longer has a place to stay, that's when I'll be sure to get the restraining order so he is forced into finding a place. But as long as he doesn't actively try to move back in, Im content with the way things are. 

Idk if any of this makes sense because this is the first time I actually stood up and reported what happened to me. I have lived in silence for so long and I wasn't even the person who called the cops. He did because I had his phone and wouldn't give it back until I was sure he had no nude pictures of me. He has a habit of taking pictures without my knowledge and sharing them online. 

He wouldn't let me delete them so I took the phone. He hasn't slept in my bed for two years and am not sure when he took the latest pics but Im pretty sure he deleted them. He has three photo apps on his phone and has also shared his nude pics with other women. 

And I know to anyone reading this, I sound like a nutjob for being confused. The answer isn't really all that simple when you have no income and kids and no support system. 

What hurts the most is that my family didn't know any of this. They knew he cheated on me and that was it. I know some of them know a bit more now but am positive they don't know the worst of it. All they know is that he beat me up over his phone and why it was so important I not give it back and NOT ONE of them has called to ask how I am doing or offer emotional support. One thing I do know is that they talk about it among themselves because to them, it's just good gossip. I couldn't tell them what was happening because they all talk about me but not to me so all I have IRL are two friends but one has her own issues so really I have one friend I could talk to on Sunday but later that night Her husband had a stroke on Sunday, the day after it happened so that puts me back to nobody IRL
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFallenAngel (Jun 10, 2015)

oko said:


> That other poster was being sarcastic I think they were a troll and got banned.
> 
> Please don't let him back in the house. Perhaps after months and months of extensive therapy, only on the advice of your counselors who are intimately aware of the situation, can you even possibly begin to consider it.


I'm pretty sure I know who that troll is. Some creep is following me here and has already been banned in here after a response. But I'm thinking a year is probably a better time making the right choices for me and my family.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

AFallenAngel said:


> I'm pretty sure I know who that troll is. Some creep is following me here and has already been banned in here after a response. But I'm thinking a year is probably a better time making the right choices for me and my family.


No it is not a troll that is following you. We get these types of posts just about everyday. They create accounts with weird names, make short, odd posts and include a tracking pixel that usually cannot be seen in the posts. 

I've deleted a few of these by different user accounts tonight. I banned the accounts a well.


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## AFallenAngel (Jun 10, 2015)

Thank you
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

"I understand everything you are saying and I am taking it very seriously but my faith keeps telling me that God is greater than this and I believe that with all my heart." 

God is greater than this. Your husband isn't. God doesn't want his children to be beaten and abused. What if God considers it an insult that one of his children allows them-self to be beaten and abused? The first few times, you're a victim. After that, you're a volunteer.

Please get the restraining order asap.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Couple of things.

If he was "removed" by the police does that mean arrested? If so then their is a mandatory restraining order in place. Generally they are 72 hours though so it may have expired you would have to check you local statutes

You are wise to be considering the fact that he will have unsupervised visitation with the kiddos if you divorce cause he will unless it can be proven in court he abused them. Proven is more than testimonial evidence by the way. So my thought would be to use this opportunity to force him into counseling. He wants something, to come back home. Tell him that you will consider it only if he gets some individual counseling for a couple of months 

You shouldn't let somone you deem unsafe back in your lives. 

Also start to consider where you might go in the mean time. I know you said he has a place to stay however I have dealt with these types all the time. The entitlement runs high and soon as he figures out that you can't force him out the house then he can move back in or get a restraining order to get you out of the house. I hope that he is not like that and he legitimately wants to work on this but I have seen it one to many times not to be jaded


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## AFallenAngel (Jun 10, 2015)

Blondilocks said:


> "I understand everything you are saying and I am taking it very seriously but my faith keeps telling me that God is greater than this and I believe that with all my heart."
> 
> God is greater than this. Your husband isn't. God doesn't want his children to be beaten and abused. What if God considers it an insult that one of his children allows them-self to be beaten and abused? The first few times, you're a victim. After that, you're a volunteer.
> 
> Please get the restraining order asap.


So you are saying that if a person is in an abusive relationship, if they stay because they are afraid, feel trapped, have been so mentally beaten down that they don't know what to do or where to go, it's their fault when it happens again? It's not that simple and as for the restraining order, 
I am following the advice of my advocate. She has dealt with this from both the inside and the outside and I've already explained why I haven't gotten the restraining order as,well as he has honored my wishes and stayed away. There are multiple things to consider and I realize that with my situation, there are quite a few things in play so as long as I can keep this amicable, I am going to follow the advice of the advocate I am working with. But thank you for your input. Sometimes it's better to hear from ppl who are outside the situation because when you are,inside, you can't even begin to think clearly which is,where I am at right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

God had an answer to the man that was abusing my mother and me and my sister.

It was a nearly insane 14 year old boy with a knife.

I stopped the piece of shyt because my mother damn sure wouldn't.

Get clear of this pathetic azzhole and grow healthy with your children.

You have already given this abuser too much of your life and harmed your children in the process.

The God argument that you are considering is similar to cult brainwashing. I know and love God.

He gets violent when men harm women and children.

Protect yourself and your children.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFallenAngel (Jun 10, 2015)

Wolf1974 said:


> Couple of things.
> 
> If he was "removed" by the police does that mean arrested? If so then their is a mandatory restraining order in place. Generally they are 72 hours though so it may have expired you would have to check you local statutes
> 
> ...


Ok. No. He wasn't arrested. The cops that were here treated me like a criminal because I took his phone and tried to delete some sensitive images that I never gave him permission to have. I could even show them proof he shared pics with strangers in an attempt to initiate group sex without my knowlege but all they said was "You took his phone. You can't just take his,property" I was also pretty upset when they got here after what happened and I was crying and shaking and the cop talking to me said that I was being belligerent and he was so calm that he (the cop) could see how it could have been me who attacked him. I said I wanted to press charges and my injuries,documented but they ignored the part about pressing charges and believe it or not said they didn't see a need to document my injuries,because I had his phone and can't just take,his property. 

I gave the phone to the officer and told him I wanted to either have my husband watch me delete the images or I see him delete the images. The officer took the phone and walked over and handed it to my husband and walked away. I told him again that I wanted to see that the images,we're gone and he told me I had the phone long enough that I should have had time to do that except until I got away from him and in my car and locked the doors, the police showed up and so I got out of the car. After talking to both of us he was told to pack some things and leave for the night. He was allowed back on Sunday but he came with a police escort to pick up more things. 

I really don't have a place to go but since he moved all of his,personal belongings,out of the house and has a residence, if I get the restraining order, he will have to leave. The DA is still looking at charges through sensitive crimes and he knows that for the most part if they decide to file that, he will be labeled a sex offender and that will change the terms of any visitation for the girls. He also knows that if they file those charges that I will cooperate fully and he will be found guilty so he has been very accommodating when it comes to listening when I say no. He made an appointment with a,therapist and wants me to go with and if I get a,no contact order, that can't happen and if I get a non violent restraining order, the first two weeks will be no contact and I'll have to miss that appointment 

I want to be there not with a,goal of restoring our marriage, but more as a prep for him to accept the fact that this will likely end in divorce and he can work with the therapist and understand that what he had been doing to me is wrong and that he is lucky that I stayed with him this long and gave him as many chances as I did. 

All I really want is for him to get help and to make sure that the placement arrangement for my girls is appropriate. I hope I answered everything because I haven't slept much and my brain is fried.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

You've been to hell and back. I'm so very very sorry. 

I know the road you're on. You want to help him. I get that. I really do. I wanted to help my abuser, too, as sick as it sounds. And i hadnt loved him for years! I cared about him as a human being, that's all. But this problem is way bigger than you can handle. I Learned the hard way. 12 years too long.

I think you should stay with the status quo with him living elsewhere. He should get help separately from you. Both of you need to get mentally healthy. Separately. Then, if he's done the work and it's a true change, maybe you two can talk about a future together. Notice how I said talk ? Don't shack up with him again in the near future. 

You know the loving gestures and talk is all a farce, right? He's an abusive, narcissistic, sexual deviant. I have nothing against group sex or naked pictures. What I am against, however, is doing all this crap without your consent. That's what makes him a sexual deviant. 

I'm glad you have an advocate. They are angels here on earth. I know mine was. 

I hope you come to the right decision for you and the kids. I'm just a PM away if you need to talk.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Your first concern is for you and your children. F him. Do not go to therapy with him as that may mitigate the DA's options. His treatment is on him. Worry about you and your children.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

AFallenAngel said:


> Ok. No. He wasn't arrested. The cops that were here treated me like a criminal because I took his phone and tried to delete some sensitive images that I never gave him permission to have. I could even show them proof he shared pics with strangers in an attempt to initiate group sex without my knowlege but all they said was "You took his phone. You can't just take his,property" I was also pretty upset when they got here after what happened and I was crying and shaking and the cop talking to me said that I was being belligerent and he was so calm that he (the cop) could see how it could have been me who attacked him. I said I wanted to press charges and my injuries,documented but they ignored the part about pressing charges and believe it or not said they didn't see a need to document my injuries,because I had his phone and can't just take,his property.
> 
> *This would be correct. In this state, Colorado, you could definetly be arrested for taking the phone I guess that's pretty similar in most states . What were the injuries you had? Can you describe them? Sometime we can go with clear injuries that can be seen like finger prints on an arm, cuts, lacerations, black eye and so on. My guess would be that you had read marks , he had read marks so it was going to come down to either everyone goes to jail or no one does. *
> 
> ...


lol you actually did very well for being sleep deprived :smile2: I'm sorry I misunderstood earlier that you don't want this marriage to work. I think you should absolutely go and get a restraining order and get it NOW before he does. Don't fool yourself that he can't and that it wouldn't force you out of your house. When domestic violence is alleged they will give a temp restraining order to anyone with almost no purden of proof, that all comes when you try and make it permanent. Get it ASAP, make sure your kids are listed and if he violates the order make sure you press charges. Those are generally contemp of court charges and judges hate when thier orders are not followed 

Good luck !


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> Your first concern is for you and your children. F him. Do not go to therapy with him as that may mitigate the DA's options. His treatment is on him. Worry about you and your children.


I also agree therapy will not work. And zero reason for it if you don't want to reconcile. Just cut all ties, get restraining order, and proceed with divorce


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Blondilocks said:


> Your first concern is for you and your children. F him. Do not go to therapy with him as that may mitigate the DA's options. His treatment is on him. Worry about you and your children.


I agree with this.

You should not go to counseling with him right now. You should be in counseling for yourself.

He got the police to escort him to your home so he can see you and continue his control of you. Now he wants you to go to counseling with him because he wants to see you and continue his control of you.

Be careful. Abusers are master manipulators. They often convince a therapist that the victim is the crazy one. Thus turning the abuser into you victim. Then you have the counselor and your abuser, further abusing you. Do not go to counseling with him.

He needs to do this on his own. That is when you can tell that he's changing.. when he does it on his own without you mothering him. 

Yes you are mothering him. You seem to be co-dependent. That's when you put another person's wellbeing ahead of your own. It's also a form of trying to control your environment. If only you could come up with the exact right thing to do (like go to counseling with him) he will be fixed. The more involved you are with him, the worse he will be. 


Here are some books that will help you. Often time the right book is much more helpful than a counselor.. or is at least as good as hours of counseling... so it's good to augment counseling this way.

Amazon.com: Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men: Lundy Bancroft

Amazon.com: Daily Wisdom for Why Does He Do That?: Encouragement for Women Involved with Angry and Controlling Men: Lundy Bancroft

Codependent No More: How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself: Melody Beattie


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## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

Get an RO and get help from family, friends and/or a domestic violence organization. File for divorce, no therapy can fix this IMO.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Wolf1974 has some good input.

Also, get a VAR (voice activated recorder) keep in on you, or near you out of sight, at all times when he is around. this could make the difference in having something to prove that he's the aggressor.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Glad I came back to this thread; I somehow missed that you don't want to R. And I was trying to be gentle, holding back what I really think you should do because I thought you wanted to R and needed support in that regard. LOL. Sorry about that.

In that case, full guns blazing. Throw every legal thing at him that you can (RO). Don't look back. He's a dirtbag to the nth degree.


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## AFallenAngel (Jun 10, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> I agree with this.
> 
> You should not go to counseling with him right now. You should be in counseling for yourself.
> 
> ...


Thank you. Today I read that it's the the strongest that stay according to the AMA as well that women stay because they have been weakened over time. I still disagree with your statement that ppl who stay become volunteers because that simply isn't true. But I agree with everything else.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFallenAngel (Jun 10, 2015)

lucy999 said:


> Glad I came back to this thread; I somehow missed that you don't want to R. And I was trying to be gentle, holding back what I really think you should do because I thought you wanted to R and needed support in that regard. LOL. Sorry about that.
> 
> In that case, full guns blazing. Throw every legal thing at him that you can (RO). Don't look back. He's a dirtbag to the nth degree.


Thanks. It is all in the hands of the DA now. I gave them everything I had including a copy of his handwritten journal of the things he has confessed to doing to me. But I still insist that he get help because of the kids. He thinks that I use the word abuse lightly so today I forwarded him an article that was sent to me and told him that I won't see the therapist with him until he reads and highlights everything that pertains to him and is and that I would do the same.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFallenAngel (Jun 10, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> Wolf1974 has some good input.
> 
> Also, get a VAR (voice activated recorder) keep in on you, or near you out of sight, at all times when he is around. this could make the difference in having something to prove that he's the aggressor.


I won't say what precautions I have taken in case he finds me here because I learned exactly how easy it is to find this place based simply on an e:Mail address but I am reading and listening and taking precautions and advice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFallenAngel (Jun 10, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> I agree with this.
> 
> You should not go to counseling with him right now. You should be in counseling for yourself.
> 
> ...


I still can't multi quote here but I have had that happen with a therapist and have stated my reasons for agreeing to go see the therapist with him and also told him that one lie or deception or manipulation on his part and that is the last he will see of me. 

I also replied on a different post that quoted you by mistake so I'll repeat this. According to the AMA, it's the strongest women who stay the longest and most women start out as strong women but after years of being manipulated and beaten down, they are weak and have many reasons they see as not only valid but important to stay. So they are not volunteers for staying. They have been manipulated to the point where they can't even begin to think clearly and afraid and those fears are valid.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

AFallenAngel said:


> Thank you. Today I read that it's the the strongest that stay according to the AMA as well that women stay because they have been weakened over time. *I still disagree with your statement that ppl who stay become volunteers because that simply isn't true*. But I agree with everything else.


I did not say that. Some other poster did.

However, I have an opinion.

I was in an abusive relationship. I have also since volunteered to help people in abusive relationships. So I know that dynamics very well.

When I was in that relationship I started out a strong person. But his antics wore me down slowly. I went through a time when I was in lala land basically and put up with it. But, once I woke up from lala land, I knew exactly what was going on. At that point... one of the things that kept me on the path to get away from him is that there was a voice in my head telling me that I was not a victim at that point. I would be a volunteer if I stayed. Since I knew what he would do and I chose not to just walk out, I was now volunteering to be in that situation. I don't know where that voice came from except somewhere deep in my subconscious. It was that thought that kept pushing 

Now I had to stay longer than I wanted to make sure that my son was safe. But my mindset was completely different. I just told him that if he got violent I'm calling the cops and having his a$$ thrown in jail. If he tried being emotionally abusive, I told him to stop and walked away. I would not allow the behavior. 

It's was like someone flipped the switch in my head.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

AFallenAngel said:


> I still can't multi quote here but I have had that happen with a therapist and have stated my reasons for agreeing to go see the therapist with him and also told him that one lie or deception or manipulation on his part and that is the last he will see of me.
> 
> I also replied on a different post that quoted you by mistake so I'll repeat this. According to the AMA, it's the strongest women who stay the longest and most women start out as strong women but after years of being manipulated and beaten down, they are weak and have many reasons they see as not only valid but important to stay. So they are not volunteers for staying. They have been manipulated to the point where they can't even begin to think clearly and afraid and those fears are valid.


I'd love to see a link to an AMA article that says that.

I think that what they are saying is that it is the strongest women who will stay the longest, because they are determined not to give up, convinced that they can change or fix their relationship.

I'm not sure that I would call that being strong.... continuing to do the same thing over and over again, expecting different results is not strength. It's hard headedness. (Keep in mind that I am talking about myself here as well.)

I've seen some things written in Christian sites that say the above about strong women. But my take is that they are trying to convince women to stay in a marriage no matter how awful and abusive it is. So they throw out a compliment to make such women feel strong.


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## AFallenAngel (Jun 10, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> I did not say that. Some other poster did.
> 
> However, I have an opinion.
> 
> ...


And that is exactly what I did. I started to realize I had to get out of this about a year ago but I will not leave without knowing that I can legally take my daughters and be safe. I contacted a lawyer who has been pretty good at helping me over the phone at no charge and talked to me in person over lunch and told me first I call the cops, then I call him. And this time that is exactly what I did. We are taking if from there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFallenAngel (Jun 10, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> I'd love to see a link to an AMA article that says that.
> 
> I think that what they are saying is that it is the strongest women who will stay the longest, because they are determined not to give up, convinced that they can change or fix their relationship.
> 
> ...


Idk how to get a link up but this was an article from a Christian magazine and they do NOT push ppl to stay in abusive relationships. If I can get it, and get it up, I'll do that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

AFallenAngel said:


> And that is exactly what I did. I started to realize I had to get out of this about a year ago but I will not leave without knowing that I can legally take my daughters and be safe. I contacted a lawyer who has been pretty good at helping me over the phone at no charge and talked to me in person over lunch and told me first I call the cops, then I call him. And this time that is exactly what I did. We are taking if from there.


I agree that you need to keep your children safe. So going about this the right way is very important.

Have you talked to anyone the local organizations that help victims of abuse? They often have a list of attorneys who will do pro bono legal work, including divorces, for victims of abuse.


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## AFallenAngel (Jun 10, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> I agree that you need to keep your children safe. So going about this the right way is very important.
> 
> Have you talked to anyone the local organizations that help victims of abuse? They often have a list of attorneys who will do pro bono legal work, including divorces, for victims of abuse.


Yes. I have an advocate and a lawyer and my kids are taking a class for children who have witnessed DV (did I get the DV right) violence?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFallenAngel (Jun 10, 2015)

oko said:


> I'd really like to see this article that supposedly states that strong women stay in abusive relationships and weak women leave them.
> 
> All you need to do is open that website in another browser window and then copy the entire url and paste it into a post on this forum.


Just in the post?
Responding to Physical Abuse
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I do not buy that the AMA actually said that it is the strongest women who stay. I did see an article on Christian website yesterday that made the claim. I tried to find the article today but it's not coming up.

My bet is that the article is written by someone who does not really understand something that the AMA said.

Here is a quote from an other interesting article that found....


"Research also shows that abusers are drawn to people who already feel powerless in other aspects of their life. These people question their own worth and thus do not consider whether their needs are being met. Predators build up the victim’s self-esteem before introducing the abuse. Many were victims of domestic abuse as children or grew up with parents who were in an abusive relationship. “They don’t have a model for anything different,” explains Malkin. “They accept it as the price of intimacy.”

Steiner says that once an abuser has made the victim feel special, he or she isolates him or her. Only then does the abuser introduce the threat of violence.

“Why did I stay?” she asks in her Ted Talk. “I didn’t know he was abusing me. Even though he held those loaded guns to my head, pushed me down stairs, threatened to kill our dog, pulled the key out of the car ignition as I drove down the highway, poured coffee grinds on my head as a dressed for a job interview, I never once thought of myself as a battered wife. Instead I was a very strong woman in love with a deeply troubled man, and I was the only person on earth who could help [him] face his demons.”

She adds that it can be dangerous to leave an abuser because the final step in the domestic violence pattern is to kill the victim. Over 70% of domestic violence murders happen after the victim has left the relationship. What finally compelled her to leave was a final beating that convinced her she was no longer safe. She combatted her abusive husband by sharing her story—telling everyone she knows. Something similar is happening with #WhyIStayed."


Why Janay Rice Stayed in an Abusive Relationship with Ray Rice


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## AFallenAngel (Jun 10, 2015)

oko said:


> I see where you got that from:
> 
> _In fact, it is often the strongest women who will stay the longest, because they are determined not to give up, convinced that they can change or fix their relationship_
> 
> Suffice it to say that I disagree with this in it's entirety. It's my opinion that the stronger women will be brave enough to take the steps that are necessary to get themselves out of a situation that is dangerous, maybe even life threatening to themselves and their children, and that the weaker women will be paralyzed by fear and indecision and do nothing to extricate themselves from such misery.


I think any woman could be beaten down enough to be afraid to leave. Look at ppl who get drawn into cults. You can totally transform a person in as little as 72 hours so imagine even just 6 months to a year could do to a person. I stayed because he stopped hitting me for years and things were actually good. Then all of the sudden, I got hit with certain sexual things and after that, I was paralyzed. It took me two years to begin to realize I need to leave. Then another year of worrying about how I would be able to do it. I didn't know there was help out there til maybe three months ago.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Here are paragraphs from that article.

The below paragraph is the only place that the AMA is mentioned. The words "strong" and "strongest" do not appear in that paragraph. The article did not claim that the AMA said that the strongest stay.



> According to the American Medical Association, husbands and boyfriends severely assault as many as four million women every year. Many of these women feel trapped, anxious, afraid, and helpless. Some feel they are to blame—that if they could just do better at pleasing their husbands, they could change their situations. Others don't know what to do, or where to go to get help. Most suffer in silence, hiding their situations from family and friends because of the shame and embarrassment they feel. Or perhaps they fear others will not believe them.


The second paragraph does not mention the AMA and is not referring to the AMA. 



The author of the article on the web page said that it is often the strongest women who stay. 
It does not say the women who stay longer are the strongest.

The distinction is very important. My interpretation of what is said in the below paragraph is that a stronger woman might stay longer. Because it's harder for the abuser to break her down and she's delusional in thinking that she can fix him. Plus she gains much needed self worth in thinking that she's the only person who can fix him. {Again my interpretation.}




> Women do not stay in abusive relationships because they like being abused. Nor is it true that only weak, helpless women are caught up in abusive relationships. These are just myths. Many of the women who are involved in abusive relationships are strong, capable women, but over time have been weakened by domestic abuse. In fact, it is often the strongest, women who will stay the longest, because they are determined not to give up, convinced that they can change or fix their relationship.


And then this in the article. It's an irresponsible statement and is not true. 



> we understand there are an increasing number of women who are abusive to their husbands.


There is not more abuse, there is less. The statistics show that domestic violence has gone down by 63% since 1994.

“Annual rates of nonfatal domestic violence fell by 63 percent between 1994 and 2012 – from 13.5 victimizations per 1,000 people to 5 per 1,000."


This is due to public education, new laws that criminalize domestic violence, and the easy availability to victims (male and female) to good support systems.

In the past, there were “chastisement laws” that stated that a husband and the legal right to “chastise” his wife. Chastise=”hit”, “beat”, physically abuse. Just about every state in the USA had these laws.

Until the latter half of the 1900’s, it was not considered crime in the USA as long as the guy did not kill or seriously injure (broken bones, etc) his wife. 

Article link: 

Responding to Physical Abuse


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

AFallenAngel said:


> I think any woman could be beaten down enough to be afraid to leave. Look at ppl who get drawn into cults. You can totally transform a person in as little as 72 hours so imagine even just 6 months to a year could do to a person. I stayed because he stopped hitting me for years and things were actually good. Then all of the sudden, I got hit with certain sexual things and after that, I was paralyzed. It took me two years to begin to realize I need to leave. Then another year of worrying about how I would be able to do it. I didn't know there was help out there til maybe three months ago.


Yep, this is what happens. Even a very strong man or woman can be slowly beaten down.

Abusers know how to manipulate. They are usually taught this by watching an abusive adult in their FOO. It's done in very small incremental steps.

I was with my first husband (Tom for ease of discussion) almost 7 years before started the physical abuse. Abuse always escalates at the rate that the abuser can tear down the abused.

In the early years of the relationship I thought Tom could never be violent. But I can now see, with 20/20 hindsight, how he chipped away at me to get to the point of physical abuse.

The emotional abuse started with small things. When we first started dating Tom criticized the way I dressed. He said that I dress up too much. So I started wearing jeans more (my first capitulation). Then Tom criticized my hair style. I never did change my hair style. While the comments bothered me, they were small and silly. I wrote them off as a nice guy who can be a jerk once in a while.

By the time the physical violence started, it was almost 7 years of very slowly increasing verbal abuse. By that time Tom was an angry man who took out his frustrations on me. He criticized and insulted just about everything I did. 

If I made a meal with sauce, sauce was too many calories. If I made a meal without sauce, it was too dry. IT got to the point that Tom yelled at me and threw a plate full of food at me while we were sitting at the table eating. My response to that was to tell him that I would never cook another meal for him. I was 5 years before I did cook him another meal. When I did start cooking for him, Tom was so nice, thanked me and complimented every meal I made. 

Keep in mind that at first we both worked and made about the same income. If Tom came home and found me cleaning the kitchen, he would yell that our bedroom was a mess and I should have cleaned it first. Or visa versa depending on the moon, direction of the wind, etc.
If we were around other people, after we were home alone he’d yell at me for everything I had said around others. Apparently I was stupid and could not read his mind and guess what he wanted me to say. Or I was too stupid to not just shut up.
By the time the physical violence started, I was in a deep depression. Tom had quit his job and was in medical school. So I was the sole break winner. We also had a 1 year old son (DS). 

I think that it was about 2 years into the physical violence when I first tried to leave. So I did what my lawyer told me to do. Move out, with our son, when Tom was not at home. (I was afraid of being violently attacked if Tom was there.) I had never called the police on him because, well I never even thought about it. So Tom had his lawyer call an emergency court hearing. The judge had the divorce petition sealed because it mentioned domestic abuse/violence. Her words were “We cannot have that in the public records defaming a doctor.” Since I had never called the police on him the Judge believed that I was using that to gain an advantage. Then she gave Tom 100% custody of our son. So I stopped the divorce and moved back into our house.

I told Tom from there on out that I would call the police if there was any more physical violence. I tolerated a lot less of the emotional crap. It helped that he was in medical school and then residence because he was gone most of the time. I later found out that he was a serial cheater though all of our marriage, so he was apparently gone a lot with is girlfriends. 

If he did not have a child, I would have left when I first filed for divorce. But there was no way that I was going to leave a small child with an abusive man to fend for himself. It took me 3.5 more years to get to the point where I could leave and had built a case about Tom’s abuse. Also that judge was no longer there.

By then DS was 6. DS was begging me to divorce his father because of the abuse. DS also would not stay home alone with his father. If I was going out to a store, DS would beg to come with me. I asked him why. DS told me that when I was not there, his father treated DS in the same way he treated me. (Yikes)

Finally I was able to leave with DS (won’t go into the details as they are too long.) I had a better lawyer. I had a case. I knew that DS would be with his father part of the time. So I got the court to order a custody evaluation. The evaluators recommended that Tom have 2 years of counseling before Tom could get any more time with DS.

What is the point of posting the above? It is not always easy to just walk out on an abusive person. Sometimes our system makes it very hard to leave. 

AFallenAngel has the same problem. She has to make sure that her husband gets as little time with the children as possible.


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## AFallenAngel (Jun 10, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> Here are paragraphs from that article.
> 
> The below paragraph is the only place that the AMA is mentioned. The words "strong" and "strongest" do not appear in that paragraph. The article did not claim that the AMA said that the strongest stay.
> 
> ...


Then I read wrong. Having kid issues and so out for a bit.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ILoveSparkles (Oct 28, 2013)

AFallenAngel said:


> I won't say what precautions I have taken in case he finds me here because I learned exactly how easy it is to find this place based simply on an e:Mail address but I am reading and listening and taking precautions and advice.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Have Elegirl move this to the private section. Could you create a new email address so notifications don't go to an account that he knows about?


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

AFallenAngel said:


> I know those urges don't just disappear but I want to see him get help. Right now, he has a place to stay and he says he is going to meetings and reading. But he has to own up to what he did and I don't see that coming soon. But I will go to counseling with him as long as both he and the therapist understand that this is not an effort to get back together but more likely a preparation for an amicable divorce.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm not sure I see the value of you joining him in the counseling. It sounds like it will give him the impression he still has a hold on you regardless of whether or not he claims to understands you're not getting back together.

You say he is going to meetings and reading - but 5 days is nothing. It's barely a blip. I think it would require months or consistent attendance before you can believe he is going to meetings and committed to change.

Good luck. I think you'll find the longer you are away from him the better you and your children feel.


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## AFallenAngel (Jun 10, 2015)

WorkingWife said:


> I'm not sure I see the value of you joining him in the counseling. It sounds like it will give him the impression he still has a hold on you regardless of whether or not he claims to understands you're not getting back together.
> 
> You say he is going to meetings and reading - but 5 days is nothing. It's barely a blip. I think it would require months or consistent attendance before you can believe he is going to meetings and committed to change.
> 
> Good luck. I think you'll find the longer you are away from him the better you and your children feel.


Oh we already feel pretty good for the most part. My nights are hard but always have been. He knows why I agreed to go to the therapist with him and I only agreed to the one time and no promises after that. We had already agreed on terms of a divorce and I had my lawyer write up what we agreed to including custody and placement of the kids. 

He also knows that I have resources and that using money and health insurance as a hold no longer matter to me because once I got past that initial shock, I talked to an advocate who will help me with all of that. I think little by little Im starting to realize I am not as dependent on him as I thought and I think he sees that I am more independent than he thought. 

I know this won't be easy but I also know I can do this. All these years he had me thinking I can't but now he sees me doing it and I think that scares him a little because he knows that I understand that I don't need him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFallenAngel (Jun 10, 2015)

Yes said:


> Have Elegirl move this to the private section. Could you create a new email address so notifications don't go to an account that he knows about?


Yes I can and thanks
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFallenAngel (Jun 10, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> Yep, this is what happens. Even a very strong man or woman can be slowly beaten down.
> 
> Abusers know how to manipulate. They are usually taught this by watching an abusive adult in their FOO. It's done in very small incremental steps.
> 
> ...


THANK YOU SO MUCH! I am doing both what I need and what I can but sometimes what you need means doing things outsiders don't understand.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

AFallenAngel said:


> Oh we already feel pretty good for the most part. My nights are hard but always have been. He knows why I agreed to go to the therapist with him and I only agreed to the one time and no promises after that. We had already agreed on terms of a divorce and I had my lawyer write up what we agreed to including custody and placement of the kids.
> 
> He also knows that I have resources and that using money and health insurance as a hold no longer matter to me because once I got past that initial shock, I talked to an advocate who will help me with all of that. I think little by little Im starting to realize I am not as dependent on him as I thought and I think he sees that I am more independent than he thought.
> 
> ...


That is awesome! I am really happy for you. Things will get better and better. You must be feeling very proud of yourself, with good reason.


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