# I want to confront the OW...to verify details and give her WHAT FOR...PLEASE ADVISE!



## Xena (Feb 11, 2011)

Not sure who has read my story, so I'll sum it up here: 

My partner was unfaithful through the internet for 9 months, doing webcam sex with strangers and also a 3 week 'fling' through second life (an online virtual world). He's very remorseful and we're well on the way to putting things back together.

Here is the current problem:

He is answering whatever questions I ask about his infidelity and giving me whatever info I request. However it is important for me to know that he is NOW telling the truth 100% and not leaving things out or lying. It is so important to know he is being honest...for example, he says with the virtual world fling, that they only had sex chat, not voice chat. I want to verify this and other details.

I asked him if he would be willing to get back in touch with the woman he did this with and ask her, while I was looking over his shoulder, the answers to whatever questions I wanted to know - her answers matching with his would verify what he is saying is 100% true. He said yes he would be willing to do this as he will do whatever it takes. I also said once we have these answers I want him to tell her certain other things like NO CONTACT, that what he did was wrong, that I am the centre of his world...etc. Things to make it clear it's over between them and he loves me so much and she means nothing to him. He said he is willing to do this too. I also said if she is willing I want to be able to speak with her over voice and camera, to look into her eyes and tell her how much her selfishness hurt me - and also that she had no business getting close to MY fiance and finally that she's a selfish, dishonourable ***** because she showed no regard for my partner, just used him for sex - and was cheating on her own boyfriend / husband while she did it.

We tried contacting the other woman through his account (she does NOT yet know that I know). We thought if she knew what it was about she wouldn't come online. Twice she has not been online when we tried (this has all been with me observing, and I also now have all his passwords and he said I can go into his accounts anytime). This was getting too stressful, so we sent her a message asking her to meet us (well, him, she doesn't know about me yet) online next Sunday night.

She wrote back saying 
- she would not meet him
- he should just ask what he wants
- she will never talk about 'those conversations we had', and then she said 'not that interesting sorry'.

I don't know if she meant to say 'not that interesting' as in 'the conversations weren't interesting' or as in 'not INTERESTED' ..'i'm not INTERESTED in you or what we talked about' and she just made a typo.

We haven't replied yet. Fiance is upset by this as am I...we need her to co-operate to put this behind us. He's still willing to do whatever it takes and whatever I deem necessary to fix this. I'm not sure where to go from here. My fiance said from what he could tell she was a selfish and reckless person (yes he is aware he was being the same at the time) so appealing to her 'better nature' might not do anything.

What I am TEMPTED to do is send her a message on that world from my fiance's account (with him knowing of course). To tell her that I am aware of the 3 week affair and that the two of us are trying to heal and move on, but we need her help and I need to talk to the woman that was intimate with my fiance so can she please meet us online? On the other hand if she is such a selfish ***** she will cheat on her own partner I don't know if she would turn up.

Can anyone suggest anything please? I want to talk to this woman face to face and verify some answers and also ask her what the hell she thought she was doing. I know it's my fiance I am engaged to and he is the one that cheated but she has morally wronged ME and I want the chance to face her down!


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## bluesky (Jan 29, 2011)

Do not confront the OW.

Facing the OM/OW will not bring you satisfaction or closure.

This affair occurred because of your fiance.
He has the commitment with you.
There are a MILLION people out there whose morals are not in alignment with ours. 

The only final contact should be your fiance sending her a no contact letter.


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## Xena (Feb 11, 2011)

Thanks for the reply, bluesky. Are you able to tell me why I shouldn't contact her? As I see it at the moment, there are good reasons for me to:

1. verify info I was given, this in turn reinforces me seeing that fiance is now being 100% truthful.

2. Have it out with her - she has treated me with extreme disrespect; It is wrong for me to be insulted in this way and allow her to get away with it. It feels like a slight on my honour.

2b. She also treated my fiance with extreme disrespect by USING him for sex chat...whatever he did or did not do, I want to rip apart ANYONE who dishonours him in this way.

3. He tells her what he did was wrong and advises NO CONTACT.

Now, if I do not speak with her, all I get is number 3 on that list. If I do speak with her, I possibly get 1, 2, 2b and 3. Why should I not speak with her?

I do appreciate your contribution, I just don't understand the advice. Thanks


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

The process is straight forward, he sends her a no contact mail that you read and approve, a sample can be found on the affaircare.com website under articles . It is up to you to verify you have been told he truth, arrange a polygraph give two or three days notice to your fiancé to come clean about everything , he has the polygraph and if he passes you move to the next stage of transparency and recovery. If he declines then this is a red flag for you. Do not lower your requirements for the full truth.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Xena (Feb 11, 2011)

Thanks for your contribution, Eli-Zor. I've just done a websearch and it seems a polygraph is quite expensive.

Sorry if I'm missing the point here, but two people have told me NOT to contact the OW, and neither of you have really said WHY not to. As I can see it, if I DID afford a polygraph, I would still only get number 1 and number 3 on my above list. I would not get number 2...being able to confront this monster. So again, it feels like I would get more if I contact her than if I don't...but no one has told me why I should NOT contact...just that I shouldn't.

I was more looking for advice on what to say to her to get her to come and talk to me. But if you think I shouldn't contact her, please say why not, rather than just saying what I should / shouldn't do.

Thank you again.


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## bluesky (Jan 29, 2011)

1. verify info I was given, this in turn reinforces me seeing that fiance is now being 100% truthful.

*It's up to him to be honest....not her. Also, she can lie as well....causing you MORE problems.*

2. Have it out with her - she has treated me with extreme disrespect; It is wrong for me to be insulted in this way and allow her to get away with it. It feels like a slight on my honour.

*Your fiance dishonored you, not her. She owes you nothing. There are scumbags all over the place. It's up to the people we love to not bring them into our lives.*

2b. She also treated my fiance with extreme disrespect by USING him for sex chat...whatever he did or did not do, I want to rip apart ANYONE who dishonours him in this way.

*This must be a joke. Sex chat is a 2 way street. He engaged in sex chat.....that is all you need to know.*

3. He tells her what he did was wrong and advises NO CONTACT.
Now, if I do not speak with her, all I get is number 3 on that list. If I do speak with her, I possibly get 1, 2, 2b and 3. Why should I not speak with her?

*You wont get ANYTHING positive from contacting OW. Furthermore, it can get MUCH more complicated than you expect. The blame should be place precisely where it belongs.....on your finance.*


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

To add to the above they may have plan agreed between them as to what to say and to who, do not underestimate the ability of waywards to work together and support the common lie. The only sure fire way of you knowing if your fiancé is telling the truth is a polygraph, get him to pay for it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Xena (Feb 11, 2011)

Thanks Bluesky. I am wondering though...what reason would she have to lie? Just to be spiteful? Do OWs / OMs do this? I am just so damn angry with her...I want to wipe her of the face of the earth! And I would LOVE if we could get in touch with her 'other' to let him know what she's been doing! 

As a side note: would you say the fact that my partner agreed yes I could speak to her, he could speak to her, verify anything...does that say he no longer has anything to hide? He's being very very open now.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

How do you know he has not agreed a way forward with her, you distrust him enough to want to talk to the OW so why imply you trust him because he agreed you can call her. Park all thoughts of talking to the OW and focus on what you require to secure your relationship.

If you want to ensure she stays away from your fiancé you do an exposure to her friends, if you chose this route there is a template of words, do not tell anyone you are going to expose, copy all her friend contacts into a word document. Post if you choose to do this and further advice will be given.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Xena said:


> Thanks Bluesky. I am wondering though...what reason would she have to lie? Just to be spiteful? Do OWs / OMs do this? I am just so damn angry with her...I want to wipe her of the face of the earth! And I would LOVE if we could get in touch with her 'other' to let him know what she's been doing!
> 
> As a side note: would you say the fact that my partner agreed yes I could speak to her, he could speak to her, verify anything...does that say he no longer has anything to hide? He's being very very open now.


You stand absolutely nothing to gain by trying to get 'facts' from TOW.
She has zero incentive to tell you a blessed thing. Given the nature of the interaction with your husband, (virtual) she likely would find it bizarre that you would want information at all. She obviously isn't interested in your man ... she was titillated by the online interaction. As far as trying to 'confront' her ... let it go.

Certainly sounds like your man is trying to atone. Only time and his ongoing behavior will tell.


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## Andrew2011 (Feb 17, 2011)

I have no experience in these matters (yet). But however tempting to the imagination it might be to give the OW/OM a thorough talking-to (we don't duel any more), I would tend to suggest not to do it. I concur that the downside of this action is potentially much worse than any benefit. And it also takes the focus off of your spouse, which, as others have mentioned, is where it is properly placed.


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## Bigwayneo (Jan 22, 2011)

I can understand why you would want to. The OP was my ex best friend of 8 years. I should have decked him, (not even for the A, but the lies that followed, and during) but instead I talked to him, gave him one last chance to fess up to everything before we departed and to never see each other. I told my wife not to bother let me add a note on the NC letter because I saw him the day before and laid it on him. He is scum, he has no friends, some of his own family is pissed at him, any girl that knows what happened won't talk to him, and he is pretty much a homeless bum. A part of me still wants to punch him, or at least get him to admit to some of the BS he did, but he never will. but, I can smile knowing that in the end his life is sucking more for it. Sure I have to work on my marriage, and right now life is kind of dim.....but if everything works out, I know I will be much better off then he will be.


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

I agree with everyone that is suggesting not to contact the OW.

My husband had a 7 month EA in which they ended up having sex on two different occasions. When I kept asking my DS if it was only the two times, he offered to let me contact the OW and ask her myself for verification. I said "What if she tells me you had sex 10 times?" My husband's eyes nearly bugged out of his head and he responded, "Why would she tell you that?" Duh! Because she's already a liar and may possibly be mad that you didn't keep the PA secret! His response, "Well, that would be b!%*#y." No $#!t Sherlock! Needless to say, I never contacted the OW. 

If you're wondering if I believe the part about him having sex just the two times... the answer is yes. Believe me, I have the details of those two times and I think I would've prefered the fabricated 10 as long as they were all rushed encounters in a parking lot or something. He didn't sugar coat his answers to the questions I asked regarding those two incidents, but the transparency is helping to SLOWLY build back trust. Although I doubt it will ever be 100% again... with anyone.


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## tpb72 (Feb 18, 2011)

And here's another do not contact the OW vote.

The idea that some random woman or man owes you anything is just not so. By the way on SL *a lot *of men pick female avatars and pretend to be female - the idea is to live a life different than your current life after all. If they never did the voice chatting, the chances are pretty high it could have been a man because voice chatting is pretty big there. 

I think you are really displacing your rage to avoid raging at your SO. I get that your pi$$ed off at him but your turning the brunt of it onto someone who doesn't matter. IMO there are two ways that could go for you ... your rage burns out and your better able to deal with your SO, or it will linger for a very long time.


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## twotimeloser (Feb 13, 2011)

Video games kill relationships.

Delete the account and give +5 dexterity to your life.


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## Xena (Feb 11, 2011)

Okay, thanks all  Think I've worked out that contacting the OW is NOT a good idea  I dunno about 'video games killing relationships'. We're both pretty happy gamer type social network type peoples. I would be sad without my lappy


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## Bigwayneo (Jan 22, 2011)

twotimeloser said:


> Video games kill relationships.
> 
> Delete the account and give +5 dexterity to your life.


Yes they can. 3 years ago my wife wanted to leave me because I ended up playing to much. BUT!!!! they can also help. We are both back to playing WoW because it is one thing we both enjoy a LOT! The problem 3 years ago was that she stopped playing and I kept going.


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## twotimeloser (Feb 13, 2011)

Wayne, my wife's EA started in WoW. So my reaction to what you said here was like... dude, are you kidding me? But I realize that was my experience.

All I can say is that WoW is filled with a bunch of people who chase after the ladies. Having her play is like taking her into the lion's den. Likewise, it is socially acceptable for men to flirt with girls in the game. Quitting wow after 4 years was the best thing i ever did. Was hard to break the addiction, but I am really living well now.

You have my very best wishes.


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## Lazarus (Jan 17, 2011)

He will break your heart in the future, if not already. 

You aren't married yet and he is treating you with little or no respect.

Why does the women not want to talk or play right now? Did he forewarn her, hence her reluctance to play?

Your problem is your man, not the OW. She is already cheating and so is he. 4 people affected because of two people playing flirt and sex chat games online. Your future isn't a game, not when he's playing away "at home"!

You are blaming her and justifying his bad behaviour and now the two of you want to tackle her online? It's a game going no-where for 2 players with another two in reserve.

You need to lay it on the line that he needs to work on winning you back from cheating online, otherwise you may regret any decision in the future to stay with your cheater man.


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## Xena (Feb 11, 2011)

Lazarus said:


> He will break your heart in the future, if not already.


Not necessarily. 

Past behaviour isn't always a predictor of future behaviour (otherwise we'd all still be sitting about in nappies, pooping ourselves and drinking Mummy's milk! ). People change, learn and grow all the time and I see that from him...

There were a lot of things that lead up to this infidelity. First, emotional pain he has from various abuses committed on him in childhood. From what I have read, those who are victims of childhood sexual abuse OFTEN have trouble with intimate relationships, especially fidelity problems UNLESS AND UNTIL they seek proper treatment for dealing with this pain. He is now seeking this treatment via mental health services who re referring him to a psychologist. They have said they can see a strong link between a lot of his problems and what happened to him as a child.

Second, the circumstance is now very different. 95% of his cheating was done while I was on the other side of the world, in a long distance relationship with him. While I had bad depression and was being very emotionally abusive to him. The other 5% was once I moved here, because he felt trapped in a bad cycle.

I am no longer on the other side of the world, I am no longer an abusive partner and I am no longer depressed. This makes a huge amount of difference.

Also, the brain and soul and heart are very 'plastic'...they can rewrite themselves. I don't believe that whole 'once a cheater, always a cheater' thing. Anyone who knows about personality, the neuroplasticity and the effect unresolved trauma can have can see there is much more to this than 'oh he did it once...he'll do it again'.

Lastly, I think at a basic level someone cannot ;break your heart'. That is a real victim mentality, one we can enter into sometimes for emotional growth. I have been in it the last few weeks. I am now stepping out of it and being the MAGICIAN archetype and saying 'no one can make me FEEL anything. I can CHOOSE to feel certain things and go through certain journeys for my own personal growth. I attracted this person to me at the right time so we could help each other learn, grow and get in touch with some pain and resolve it'.



Lazarus said:


> You aren't married yet and he is treating you with little or no respect.


Actually, now he is treating me with a great deal of respect. He felt trapped and afraid before. Now that the secret is out and he can see I'm NOT going to leave him, he is treating me with great love, kindness and reverence. It's wonderful. He couldn't be himself before because he was so clogged up with pain, fear and guilt. Now the air is much clearer and it's wonderful!



Lazarus said:


> Why does the women not want to talk or play right now? Did he forewarn her, hence her reluctance to play?


It's a possibility, but my soul says 'no'. The air is so much clearer. His attitude is different. I feel the love flowing between us again. I believe he's being 100% upfront now.



Lazarus said:


> Your problem is your man, not the OW. She is already cheating and so is he. 4 people affected because of two people playing flirt and sex chat games online. Your future isn't a game, not when he's playing away "at home"!
> 
> You are blaming her and justifying his bad behaviour and now the two of you want to tackle her online? It's a game going no-where for 2 players with another two in reserve.
> 
> You need to lay it on the line that he needs to work on winning you back from cheating online, otherwise you may regret any decision in the future to stay with your cheater man.


Yes, I can see the issue is not with her...it's not really with him either, it's with his past behaviour. He is doing whatever it takes to repair that, and I'm proud and grateful. Given what he himself is going through, he's behaved like a champion since this came out. 

The reason I wanted to talk to her was to tell her off somewhat, and to get her version of events to see if they tally with his. I don't think I care about those things any more. Stuff her! She's going to end up lonely and alone inside a suitcase somewhere and probably have thousands of STDs and bugs in her panties....UUUEEERRRRGHHH!

:lol::smthumbup: thanks for all your help, advice and support, people


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

twotimeloser said:


> Wayne, my wife's EA started in WoW. So my reaction to what you said here was like... dude, are you kidding me? But I realize that was my experience.
> 
> All I can say is that WoW is filled with a bunch of people who chase after the ladies. Having her play is like taking her into the lion's den. Likewise, it is socially acceptable for men to flirt with girls in the game. Quitting wow after 4 years was the best thing i ever did. Was hard to break the addiction, but I am really living well now.
> 
> You have my very best wishes.


I have mixed feelings about WoW. I met my EA on the game and he and his wife were the ones we swapped with. Told him absolutely no more contact on the game no in game emails, no live id, whisps, etc, and he has abided by that. Right now I can barely get myself to play because of the negative feelings it brings up, but me and my husband play together, it was supposed to be a hobby we had in common. Really good how that turned out huh?  

Xena I am glad you came to a conclusion about OW. I spoke with the latest EA OW on the phone on Monday, was polite, she asked me to call. Didn't do much for me, still wanna drive over to her apt. and smash her face up, but I won't of course. I was gonna say don't even bother with her, in my personal experience, it did me no good.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Xena said:


> and also that she had no business getting close to MY fiance and finally that she's a selfish, dishonourable ***** because she showed no regard for my partner, just used him for sex - and was cheating on her own boyfriend / husband while she did it.


You want her to agree to come online so that you can lambaste her, and you are surprised that she does not want to?



> She wrote back saying
> - she would not meet him
> - he should just ask what he wants
> - she will never talk about 'those conversations we had', and then she said 'not that interesting sorry'.
> ...


She meant that the conversations were not interesting enough for her to waste her time with recounting them.


> We haven't replied yet. Fiance is upset by this as am I...we need her to co-operate to put this behind us.


You don't get to have that. You don't get to tell people what YOU need THEM to do for you. Keep this between you and your fiance. 


> What I am TEMPTED to do is send her a message on that world from my fiance's account (with him knowing of course). To tell her that I am aware of the 3 week affair and that the two of us are trying to heal and move on, but we need her help and I need to talk to the woman that was intimate with my fiance so can she please meet us online? On the other hand if she is such a selfish ***** she will cheat on her own partner I don't know if she would turn up.


Give me a break. Heel and move on by forgetting what a horrid person she is. HE did this to you. NOT HER. She did not break a commitment to you.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

She may have not broken a commitment to Xena, but it gives a feeling of self satisfaction when you can make them accountable for their actions, I can totally relate to how Xena is feeling. I just wish I had gotten that feeling when I talked to the OW in my situation.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Here's just a couple thoughts: 

If she were the kind of person who would accept personal responsibility for her choices and actions--she wouldn't have had an online affair with an engaged man. 

If she were the kind of person who would answer your questions truthfully--she wouldn't have been the kind of person to engage in lies and have an online affair with an engaged man.

Her actions have already demonstrated she's willing and able to blame others for what she does..and she's willing and able to lie through her teeth in order to avoid responsibility or self-reflection. So given that we already KNOW she is this kind of person...you tell me. Is she very likely to be honest with you, tell you she was to blame for the online affair, and admit she was wrong? Not just no, but HECK NO!!! 

No profit can come from this, and in real life she doesn't "owe" you anything. Your man is the one who made a commitment to you, and he made the choice to break that commitment. Thus, the only one here who might "owe" you anything would be him and it seems to me he's being transparent and working it out with himself and with you. So delete her, block her, and be utterly DONE with "her"!!!!!


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Affaircare said:


> Here's just a couple thoughts:
> 
> If she were the kind of person who would accept personal responsibility for her choices and actions--she wouldn't have had an online affair with an engaged man.
> 
> ...


:iagree:


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## Bigwayneo (Jan 22, 2011)

twotimeloser said:


> Video games kill relationships.
> 
> Delete the account and give +5 dexterity to your life.


Or they can help. I think we have talked about this before. Everything is bad in overdoses. It's like drugs and alcohol Use sparingly, know when you can play and not play. Being a dad to two daughters I learned this very fast. In fact video games where not the reason we had problems as of the last year or so.


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## twotimeloser (Feb 13, 2011)

Bigwayneo said:


> Or they can help. I think we have talked about this before. Everything is bad in overdoses. It's like drugs and alcohol Use sparingly, know when you can play and not play. Being a dad to two daughters I learned this very fast. In fact video games where not the reason we had problems as of the last year or so.


However...

There are more productive things to do than WoW. I dont think its fair for me personally to comment because i am really anti-gaming for a marriage. I personally view it as "me" time and as a staunch supporter of "we" time, It goes against my foundation of beliefs. 

All I can say is that when you are playing, you are ignoring everyone else, and focusing on game objectives instead of the family in an enviroment that does not promote a positive moral compass.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

That I agree with Twotime. There was a period of time these last several months I was guilty of just that. I recently in the last few weeks vowed to myself to cut down, and man I have, I am actually thinking about just quitting the game, or keep it for only and I mean ONLY I am alone and all the necessary stuff is done. Haven't decided yet. In my case the game was quite the catalyst in my situation, I wouldn't have had an EA, then in turn me or the hubby would have never had the PA's. I would just be dealing with his very first EA, I may have never even found out.


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## valeriedp (Feb 13, 2011)

I did confront the OW (actually, she confronted me), and I can not tell you how much I regret that. There were way to many details that I did not need to know, that killed me. I talked to her many times, and she told me EVERYTHING and it hurt so bad. I wish I just knew about the affair and not all the little details. At the time i wanted to know everything. BUt the knowledge did not help me at all, it did not make life easier, it did not make my decision about what to do easier, it really did nothing but hurt me. My advice would be now that you know what happened, try to move past it, not dwell on the details.


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## Bigwayneo (Jan 22, 2011)

twotimeloser said:


> However...
> 
> There are more productive things to do than WoW. I dont think its fair for me personally to comment because i am really anti-gaming for a marriage. I personally view it as "me" time and as a staunch supporter of "we" time, It goes against my foundation of beliefs.
> 
> All I can say is that when you are playing, you are ignoring everyone else, and focusing on game objectives instead of the family in an enviroment that does not promote a positive moral compass.


To each there own. I think everyone needs a little bit of Me time, and that is mine. I try to involve my wife, and WoW works. Every one has an opinion about it. But instead of thread jacking we should maybe just make our own thread.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

I was thinking the same thing Wayne lol


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## Xena (Feb 11, 2011)

Thanks for replying guys. I don't mind this thread being hijacked...I have had my question answered. If it goes into a discussion about online gaming that is fine. 

By the way, second life is not just a game...it is a virtual world that we are both into. Businesses, schools and universities use it too. Right now he is doing everything he can to make it 'our place' again. He's agreed to write this person a no contact letter. Then he's going to let me see through all of his accounts. He's going to delete the ones he no longer uses, and for the ones he uses I will also have full access to them. He will also go through all the ones he's keeping and delete anything inappropriate to 'us' off there. Then at some point soon we're going to have a virtual wedding on second life and re-partner our avatars  We're also going to start running Philosophy discussions on there TOGETHER again...

As for me, I think games and virtual worlds have lots of good points. You can learn, imagine, play, have fun in them. It's only when they become an unbalance or an addiction that it becomes bad. I think it's the same with a lot of potentially addictive things...like having a drink one or two nights a week is OK by me, but having it every night would feel unhealthy. 

My partner is playing the playstation right now...and I'm having some internet time. But we're right here in the same room, chatting to each other as well. It doesn't feel unhealthy. On the other hand if this was our ONLY or even MAIN interaction...that would feel bad.


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## Bigwayneo (Jan 22, 2011)

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

110%


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