# I Struggle With Temptation



## wanttolove (Jan 25, 2012)

A large part of me wants to give up, to at least find a physical and emotional refuge, a woman who will make me feel good again. I need closeness, so painful my desire at times that it brings me to tears.

Christmas eve brought a new experience for me, at least new to my life as a married man. It feels like a signal to an end to me, yet at the same time it signals that the end may still be far away, maybe out of reach.

I feel good. I feel bad. What happened is a bit of an ego boost for me, but it also says quite a bit about my character – and not in a good way.

I’m a part of the outside greeting team (a parking lot attendant) and usher at church now. I started doing that a little over a year ago and am really having a good time with it. Every 1st and 3rd Sunday, I am outside directing traffic in one of our church parking lots. Our First Impressions team is a pretty large group, a lot of fun. Since it’s usually the same group each time I serve, I am getting to know everyone pretty well. They all know me any way from all of the time I spent on stage acting. One of the weeks I serve, a woman named Sophia also serves. She also works a few of the weeks I don’t work. We have gotten to know each other fairly well and she always greets me with a big hug. Sophia is real pretty, very personable and I like being around her. When she is a greeter, I always stop to talk to her. And recently she started parking in the lot that I work in, makes sure she walks by me while I am directing traffic. There is a little bit of casual flirting going on and I really like it. A guy my age, married, average looks at best, who just does not go looking for attention from a woman, doesn’t get to experience flirting from a pretty woman at all. It feels better than I would like it to feel. I am the type of person who wants people to like me, that wants to be the good guy. Flirting with a pretty woman is not being the good guy.

Kind of get an idea where this might be going?

And I didn’t really think about it until Christmas eve, but my wife almost never is with me at church. I go to early service, sit towards the front by myself. My wife goes to the later service and sits in the very back row of the balcony with our son. Several years ago, I lost my wedding ring so I don’t wear a ring. If you didn’t really know me, you might think I am single. Recently, one of the women on the greeting team asked me if I would be interested in going out with a friend of hers, so I know there are some that are trying to figure me out.

I didn’t realize how intentional I was being about looking like I am single, either. When I did realize, I didn’t feel very good about the character I am displaying. I could feel a bit of darkness inside of me.

My church has six Christmas eve services. Members of the greeting and parking lot teams were sent an email to ask if what Christmas eve services we could work at. I volunteered for the 3 and 5 PM services. One other person volunteered for the same services – Sophia. I had an idea that she knew she would have some time to talk to me during the down times. I actually hoped she would. And she did.

After the cars were parked for the 3 PM service, Sophia met me half way and walked in with me. She tugged on my arm and led me to some chairs in the corner of our lobby. I could tell she was nervous because she started to say something, stopped for a second, then continued on… “So what’s your story?… Oh geez, it sounds like I am hitting on you.”

“It’s OK. I’m flattered. But what do you mean?”

“I mean, I never see you with a woman except for your daughter now and then. Are you married?”

“Yeah, I am married. The reason you don’t see me with my wife is because we are two different types of people. She stays up late, sleeps late, goes to late service, sits in back. I am early to bed, early to rise, early service, front row.”

I didn’t go into what my marriage was like. A gentleman doesn’t do that. I felt a little creepy already because it was obvious that I had led her on and I felt bad about it. She had reason to think that I was single and interested in her because I had acted that way.

We talked a little more. She told me that she was going out to eat with friends for Christmas eve, wondered what I was doing. She wanted to know what Christmas was like for me growing up. Told me a bit more about herself. She has a boyfriend, I know, and I thought she was engaged to him. I met him one Sunday.

I excused myself when some friends of mine approached to ask me to take a family picture of them in front of the lobby Christmas tree. Sophia needed to take some time in her car to do her nails for the Christmas eve dinner, so she excused herself too.

So the next break she asked me why my wife was never with me, why I never talk about her. Was there something wrong? Then she told me that she had broken off her engagement recently. So I told her about asking for a divorce. Kind of a stupid and wrong thing to do, but I did it. She said it was pretty obvious from the way I act that I am in that limbo you get in when you want a divorce but it’s not the right time. She is divorced and went through that. So we talked about that for a while. I get the idea that she was hoping that I was available to go out to that Christmas eve dinner with her.

After cars were parked for the 5 PM service, Sophia looked me up and asked me if I wanted to sit with her in the service. I couldn’t since my family was there. I would have if they had not been there. She waited for me afterwards, when I was done directing traffic, walked me out to my car. And that was it. Nothing else happened. I am going to try to keep it that way, but I am pretty sure I won’t discourage it if she is still interested in me, which worries me a little. She knows that I am married. But she is an outdoors type, likes to hike and bike. While talking to her Christmas eve, I found out that she is Mexican (she has darker skin and brown eyes).. and I like that. She could be a problem, she could end up being nothing to worry about.

So there is my story. 

You may not understand the struggle I am dealing with. It may be a simple decision for someone who doesn’t believe in God the way I do, who is trying to make life choices that honor God. It’s not easy knowing what is right, no matter where you stand.

My journey continues. I have been struggling with thoughts of divorce for several years now, so much that I told my wife last June that I want a divorce. Still not there yet, but this Christmas eve story reveals a lot about where my heart already is. It feels like cheating, but is it really?


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Sounds like you're in an emotional affair. To get over it you would need to go no contact with this woman. Tell your wife, tell your preacher and change your schedule so you do not see her. 

If you aren't willing to do that, you might as well divorce IMO. 
What are the problems in your marriage? Why can't you sit with your wife and son or go when they go to church?


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## wanttolove (Jan 25, 2012)

I think I am heading for divorce. You are probably right about the emotional affair potential, but I don't think we are there yet.

Preacher doesn't care. I am not telling my wife -- I would rather just go through with the divorce. My wife and son will not go to the same service that I do and I do sit with them when I go to the late service.

No sex or affection for well over a decade. Respect issues on both sides.


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## New_Beginnings (Nov 16, 2015)

To me, if you aren't divorced and haven't moved forward with plans of divorce since that topic in June (5mth ago) then yes you're cheating. You having feeling guilty is also a sign to stop. 

You're being sneaky and not mentioning your wife, leading this woman (and others) onto believe a divorce is the making or that you're single. This while you're afraid your family can't see you sit with this woman. That means, they're unaware a divorce is in the making as well or the trouble in paradise that you're telling this other woman. 

You feel gentleman enough to not discuss your marriage but your ego has got the best of you, to engage in a flirtatious manner? Which is it? A gentleman or a sneak? If you plan to divorce, do that but don't play around with your wife's emotions and on your family behalf by being flattered off bad behavior. You might want to hold off on serving at the church, as you're using its purpose for a self pleasing purpose at this moment.


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## Driedlove (Oct 3, 2015)

wanttolove said:


> I think I am heading for divorce. You are probably right about the emotional affair potential, but I don't think we are there yet.
> 
> Preacher doesn't care. I am not telling my wife -- I would rather just go through with the divorce. My wife and son will not go to the same service that I do and I do sit with them when I go to the late service.
> 
> No sex or affection for well over a decade. Respect issues on both sides.


What happened to you two that caused this? Were you forced to marry her at gunpoint or something? 

You embarrassed yourself in front everyone in church by flirting with a pretty girl already. What if the group of angry Christian women decided to set you up with this pretty Mexican girl to find out if you're the one being sneaky and your wife was the innocent one? Asking for a divorce immediately isn't going to be easy. I've read lots of stories about divorce, they sound like nightmares. Also, when it comes to divorce in courts, women are usually the ones who win the most...

You're not a bad guy... or are you? Explain how you feel about your wife.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

wanttolove said:


> I think I am heading for divorce. You are probably right about the emotional affair potential, but I don't think we are there yet.
> 
> Preacher doesn't care. I am not telling my wife -- I would rather just go through with the divorce. My wife and son will not go to the same service that I do and I do sit with them when I go to the late service.
> 
> No sex or affection for well over a decade. Respect issues on both sides.


The preacher will care of two of his/her members are carrying on an affair. At best they will help separate you two until you are actually divorced. 

If you want to leave your marriage with any integrity, you need to do it NOW and cut off all contact with this woman until you do.


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## always_hopefull (Aug 11, 2011)

Let your preacher read what you wrote, if you have nothing to hide. For someone who seems to go to church regularly, you don't seem to be paying much attention. I suggest you start with the 10 commandments. People are getting curious about you because your acting like a cheater, you don't wear a ring or sit with your family. Actually you are cheating, your becoming emotionally involved with another woman and lying to both her and your wife. Have you thought of how it will look once "Sophia" finds out you haven't asked for a divorce? 

What's wrong with you going to a different mass with your wife? You guys lead opposite lives, but maybe your not getting much affection because your not giving any either. Your flirting with another woman who is not your wife in front of a whole congregation, are you so naive to think no one notices it.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I find it funny that the peanut gallery, unaware as they may be about being in a zombie marriage, sing in unison about the evils of affairs.

I would think less about Sophia short term and more about the financial realities a divorce brings. Think of how much you make, what child support and the like you will be on the hook for, and see if its workable. 

In your spare time also think what you have done to earn this treatment. Look at yourself objectively and decide if anything needs fixing. Maybe or maybe not.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
Having been in something rather like your position, my advice.

Give yourself 2 months to do everything you possibly can to save your marriage. Tell you wife what is wrong, what you need to be happy. Go to counseling. 

If it doesn't work, then after 2 months ask for a divorce.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

You've not stated why this is a sexless marriage, or why you want a divorce.

One thing is certain-- until you are divorced, you should not be going to church to carry on your woman chasing. And this woman who is chasing you should be ashamed if she's doing this and knows you are still married. You should be ashamed also. As stated, you are wrong if you don't think others don't notice what's happening.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

I would steer clear of this woman. She is pursuing a marrried man at church speaks volumes about her character.


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## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

wanttolove said:


> I think I am heading for divorce. You are probably right about the emotional affair potential, but I don't think we are there yet.
> 
> Preacher doesn't care. I am not telling my wife -- I would rather just go through with the divorce. My wife and son will not go to the same service that I do and I do sit with them when I go to the late service.
> 
> No sex or affection for well over a decade. Respect issues on both sides.


I find it weird that the preacher doesn't care. I wonder if you were a woman if he would react differently.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

Your señorita at church is showing you attention, and you miss that and are responding to the attention. Realize that she is probably not going to make your life better, the stigma of an affair will be like a dark stain on your life.

 Whatever your problems are in your marriage you need to close that chapter first, fix it or end it. Probably should start going to a different church until you get your life figured out.


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## Driedlove (Oct 3, 2015)

My opinion is you feel insecure, and you probably don't feel like you're all that attractive. I can tell from reading this post. You explained about Sophia's conversation with you in so much detail as if she was the greatest thing in your life. What you said about your wife was cold. It's like you're trying to make your wife out to be a loser. You didn't even explain what your wife did wrong, but only different serving time. 

I don't know Sophia, but what if she lied about being the victim (when it's possibly the opposite, her ex-husband was the true victim) of the divorce? If so, then she did a good job by making you (along with many other people in church) think she was such a good, innocent, sweet girl, even when it was so obvious that she didn't care about your VOW to your wife. Let me repeat... A VOW.

I mean, you go to the church where TONS of people go to. You'll regret making the mistake of cheating on your wife BIG time. Actually, when it comes to a church, a divorce is WORST than cheating. I've been attending church a few years ago, and I used to read the bible a lot. Everyone in church will look at you differently, no matter how friendly, genuine, or forgiving they appear to be. Imagine the kids growing up, thinking of you as "that guy"... 

Sophia not only disrespected your wife, but also disrespected YOU for being a faithful, perfect husband that every girl dream of. I assume that so far, you never have cheated on your wife, so that's good! That's very good! Sophia hates the fact you're that perfect, loyal husband that she wished she had, and she's jealous of your wife for having you. 

In my opinion, that Mexican beauty doesn't care about you or your relationship with your wife. She doesn't care if you're cheating on your wife or divorcing her. Sophia believes you would cheat on your wife, but she believes you TOTALLY WOULD NEVER cheat on her. She believes she's way more attractive than your wife and she could easily persuade you while she has you on a leash to follow her around, wagging your tail out of excitement for her. It's possible she doesn't even find you attractive, but only wants to use you as another one of her s3x doll along with her boyfriend, and her ex-husband she already has. Three men under her control, boy, would that be her biggest ego boost.

She has a boyfriend, so she was hitting on you, flirting with you while she KNOWS she's taken. That says a lot about her.

I noticed you have not said a single good thing about your wife. My guess is your wife never appreciated your attention, love, passion to her, am I right? 

Also, buy a ring for yourself to wear for your wife!


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

No sex for a decade? Divorce the wife and take out Sophia. A DECADE! You're a saint for going that long. I would say your marriage has been dead for nine years at least. I can't imagine there is any hope for a healthy marriage after all intimacy is cut off for a decade.


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## wanttolove (Jan 25, 2012)

Thanks to all who have taken the time to comment. I do appreciate the input whether it be negative or positive or in between. I expected negative and I had hoped I would have negative comments. I need to see that side of the situation too.

Here are a few nuggets of information, some of which are in previous posts:
1. I asked my wife for a divorce last June. I agreed to see a counselor since she said she wanted to at least try that one more time before we agree to part (and she will never agree).
2. We have seen a counselor together once since last June. She has seen the counselor twice since then. Counseling is expensive, as some may be aware, to the tune of $160 per session. I am not avoiding the counselor, I just can't afford the counselor.
3. I get the idea from some of the comments that I have been a cad of sorts. I really haven't been, far from it. But I have been interested in Sophia and have not avoided the attention.
4. Sophia hasn't been chasing me, no matter how it may sound from the story I told. She did back off quite a bit when she found out I am married.

Whoever said that I am a bit insecure about my appearance is correct. I am over fifty with a hairline that is beginning to recede. I am in very good shape physically, better than most, but I am no Adonis. The attention feels good. My wife does not make me feel desirable at all, has avoided physical contact with me for a long, long time. That takes its toll on a person.

The church I go to is very large, around 5000 people attend services each weekend. When I started feeling like I wanted to divorce and was struggling heavy with it, I contacted my pastor and asked to talk to him. He set me up with a free 30 minute session with a counselor, but would not agree to talk to me. That's why I say he doesn't care. It doesn't mean that he doesn't care about me, but he chooses to leave the counseling to professionals.

And I do agree that I need to close the chapter on my marriage before getting involved with someone else. It does feel like cheating even to enjoy the attention from another woman.. so it probably is.

Divorce does not hold the same stigma in the church as it once did, especially in large churches like the one that I attend. There are a lot of couples who come from divorce. There was even a pastor who went through a divorce that he did not initiate. He continued to preach for a while, but no longer pastors at our church. 

I do wonder what my part has been in the deterioration of my marriage. I know that I have made mistakes. One thing I do know is that I do not deserve the disrespect my wife has continued to give to me -- I have been a faithful and attentive husband to her, a man who has provided an excellent example to our children in many ways. All she says to me is that she can not respect a man that she thinks is wrong.. and she has demonstrated it way too many times. The sex thing? Believe it or not, it's not the main motivating factor for wanting a divorce (it definitely plays a large part, though). It's the respect. I don't even get the basic respect that a husband should get, any husband good or bad.


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## Driedlove (Oct 3, 2015)

There was an e-book given to me in my own thread that explains why a man never seems to be appreciated by his own wife. He did everything he could to her, but she never seems to return the favor. The answer to that is because... well, I forgot, but if you want to know what kind of ebook it is, I'd be more than happy to share a link to you. I read it, and found it kinda scary how it was almost describing my own life and my goals.

Are you suspicious of your wife? 

I have a feeling she caught a few porn in your history browser in your computer, so she got bitter the more she keeps finding out you were still looking at porn. It's one of the possibilities why she hasn't been respecting you as much. I hear wives do this all the time to find out if their husbands were still looking at internet porn. It seems to always make them the most bitter.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

wanttolove said:


> Thanks to all who have taken the time to comment. I do appreciate the input whether it be negative or positive or in between. I expected negative and I had hoped I would have negative comments. I need to see that side of the situation too.
> 
> Here are a few nuggets of information, some of which are in previous posts:
> 1. I asked my wife for a divorce last June. I agreed to see a counselor since she said she wanted to at least try that one more time before we agree to part (and she will never agree).
> ...


I think I would find a new church. Looks like your pastor is more interested in the offering plate than his flock. The number 2 priority of a pastor is his church members.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I want to hear more about what WENT WRONG in your marriage.... Were you deeply in love in the beginning... was it a whirlwind thing??

Then what happened... it's almost ALWAYS a case of *growing Resentment *-for whatever reasons .. that lead to this Grand canyon divide, communication dies.. sexual intimacy goes right along with it.

What you are experiencing... is as normal as normal can be -under these circumstances...you feel like a man thirsting/ crawling in the desert, deprived of touch, of affirmation.. barely any of your emotional needs are being met in this marriage...

But I bet she feels the same.. she can't be happy either ?? 

Meeting this woman, her attention to you.. it's awakening things inside you that -you won't have to power to shut off...once you become ensnared -no matter what your faith is... 

You still have TIME to act with integrity ...and be a good man.. 

YOU NEED to go to your wife.... and have an honest heart to heart.. about where you are.. what you NEED.. and make a decision to work on it.. (and cut all ties with this woman) ..OR go through with the divorce, as honestly this could be for the best..

I believe people should be happy, fulfilled within marriage ...intimacy is EVERYTHING.. when it dies.. it feels like a prison sentence.. this is no good.. this is NEVER what God intended.. 

So don't feel guilty that you FEEL.. that you need these things.. that you desire, you want.. you were designed like this..

Walk in the way of an Honorable man.. Do you want to save your marriage... give your wife one last chance to meet you half way? Do you have hope here ? If not.. understand if you don't get out and separate yourself from this woman... you will be ushered into the FOG.. 

Take a moment & read this thread *>>> *http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/21172-never-say-never.html


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## New_Beginnings (Nov 16, 2015)

Besides the lack of affection, I really haven't heard what went wrong In the marriage. I'm sure your wife feels some changes needed to be made on your part as well, what were those needs that she needed from you? 

I do not see how this Sophia appears so innocent (in your eyes), she told you she has a boyfriend. She's showing interest in wanting to know you but has she broken up with the boyfriend? Do you really believe this will lead to anything more than getting hurt? She might be liking things you are giving that she isn't getting in her relationship. Do either of you truly believe your interactions and conversations are healthy?

Both of you should be ashamed of yourselves and no this isn't just friendly talk. You hope to see her, wait on these interactions and wish there was more. You are sharing details of some divorce that has yet to happen. Why are you entertaining her questions about your marriage and still getting to know her? 

You are downplaying the innocence of this situation. Those thoughts you shared with Sophia, about how your marriage is ending in a divorce need to be clear to your wife first. She should be the one that you're discussing the end too. Although you and your wife may not be on the same page, you made vows to her. The fact you're so happy to have these "innocent" conversations and wish your family wasn't around on Christmas that's not innocent minded. The fact you're in a mind fog and still believing what you're doing is ok tells me that your wife deserves better. 

I believe you're pretty good at manipulating and twisting a story, to appear as the nice man that was treated poorly. I'd love to hear your wife's real thoughts and what really went wrong, for her to turn as cold as she supposedly did.


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## New_Beginnings (Nov 16, 2015)

Do you both work? If so, what's your twos schedules like. Do you both work different shifts? What things outside of counseling have you done to help rebuild this marriage? 

Have you two gone out and have you tried rekindling the romance? Have you tried a weekend getaway? If you both work different shifts, have you guys talked about trying to make more time for eachother? Possibly working different or less hours? Can you start going to church, at the same time as your wife? Wouldn't you both benefit, hearing the word of God together letting it speak to the both of you and discuss the message at home?

What does your wife want from you? Why does she want to stay in the marriage, if you both are unhappy? or has she explained her part of why you aren't getting what you're wanting? How does she react, when you say you need more affection? What's her response? What's her reasoning as to why she hasn't given what you're asking for?


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Wanttolove,

I know from reading your old posts that you do not believe your W was unfaithful to you but....

Is your W still attached romantically to an ex-boyfriend, or someone she wanted to date but who already had a girlfriend, this could be a below the radar once a year letter. She may feel that she did not marry her true love and had to settle for you.

When the sex turned off years ago were you suspicious that your W was in an affair at that time. Although the affair might be dead in terms of contact it can live on as a fantasy.

What explanation does she give as to why she does not have sex with you? 

Is she capable of orgasms if she masturbates? 

If the answer to this is yes then divorce.

Tamat


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## wanttolove (Jan 25, 2012)

Driedlove said:


> There was an e-book given to me in my own thread that explains why a man never seems to be appreciated by his own wife. He did everything he could to her, but she never seems to return the favor. The answer to that is because... well, I forgot, but if you want to know what kind of ebook it is, I'd be more than happy to share a link to you. I read it, and found it kinda scary how it was almost describing my own life and my goals.
> 
> Are you suspicious of your wife?
> 
> I have a feeling she caught a few porn in your history browser in your computer, so she got bitter the more she keeps finding out you were still looking at porn. It's one of the possibilities why she hasn't been respecting you as much. I hear wives do this all the time to find out if their husbands were still looking at internet porn. It seems to always make them the most bitter.


No porn. I wish it was porn as that would be easy to understand. 

If you find the link, please post it.. and thanks.


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## wanttolove (Jan 25, 2012)

New_Beginnings said:


> Besides the lack of affection, I really haven't heard what went wrong In the marriage. I'm sure your wife feels some changes needed to be made on your part as well, what were those needs that she needed from you?
> 
> I do not see how this Sophia appears so innocent (in your eyes), ...She might be liking things you are giving that she isn't getting in her relationship. Do either of you truly believe your interactions and conversations are healthy?
> 
> ...


Let me ask you this first -- if you haven't had sex with your spouse for over ten years, have not been treated with any interest for affection, have been rejected even when you have talked to your spouse about the lack of sex or attention from your spouse -- HOW WOULD YOU FEEL IF SOMEONE PAID ATTENTION TO YOU? We're not taking about sex, we are talking about how I feel.

Sophia tested the waters by asking me a question, while thinking I was available. We only talked briefly. Once again, how would you feel if someone paid attention to you after many years of feeling like you are undesirable? If you had already proposed divorce with your spouse, would that change your thinking even in the least bit?

My wife and I have had many, many conversations about the lack of respect in our relationship. In counseling, she identified the original reason for cutting me off was that she feels that I did not support her during the procedure that followed a miscarriage, mainly because she wanted a third child (I didn't) and my reaction to the miscarriage was sadness mixed with relief. We have different parenting styles and that has led to a gap especially when dealing with our son, enough that her reaction to him cussing me out after a tennis match that he lost (she made me the bad guy without me doing anything) is what finally broke me and I consulted a divorce mediator. I proposed seeing the mediator to her and she refused.

Is that enough or do you want to know more?

I am not manipulating a story. I needed to put my story into writing to be able to deal with it better.. and it has helped me put my thoughts into order.


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## wanttolove (Jan 25, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I want to hear more about what WENT WRONG in your marriage.... Were you deeply in love in the beginning... was it a whirlwind thing??
> 
> Then what happened... it's almost ALWAYS a case of *growing Resentment *-for whatever reasons .. that lead to this Grand canyon divide, communication dies.. sexual intimacy goes right along with it.
> 
> ...


A lot of what you say is very close to what has happened in my marriage. It was a quick courtship, around four months. We were married about a year after our first date, but we believed we were in love. Prior to and until we had kids, she was very affectionate with me, so much that her father commented that he had never seen her so much in love. She is the youngest of seven children, all daughters, and she learned a lot about parenting from a mother who smothered her youngest daughter to the point of never letting go.

As is common, having children created a physical gap that grew after our second was born (a boy). The boy has been difficult and our parenting styles are different, a constant source of conflict between us the last ten years or so. She rejects any sort of discipline, openly defies me in front of him, and has told me that she does not respect a man that she thinks is wrong. We both have issues of respect and have had many discussions about it.

She is not happy either. I don't trust (the key word) that she is willing to make the changes. I don't have the desire to make the changes that I need to make in order to restore a physical relationship. She is not a companion and has admitted she has no desire to try. I don't know what to do about being that for her either.

I will stay away from a relationship with Sophia. I think she will stay away from a relationship with me. One thing that is keeping me around in my marriage is my children, especially my daughter, and my integrity needs to stay intact in order to maintain the example I want to keep for my children. 

I have a lot to learn.. always will be learning.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

It must be painful to have to turn Sophia down. Like refusing a glass of cold water after a day under the desert sun.


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## wanttolove (Jan 25, 2012)

New_Beginnings said:


> Do you both work? If so, what's your twos schedules like. Do you both work different shifts? What things outside of counseling have you done to help rebuild this marriage?
> 
> Have you two gone out and have you tried rekindling the romance? Have you tried a weekend getaway? If you both work different shifts, have you guys talked about trying to make more time for eachother? Possibly working different or less hours? Can you start going to church, at the same time as your wife? Wouldn't you both benefit, hearing the word of God together letting it speak to the both of you and discuss the message at home?
> 
> What does your wife want from you? Why does she want to stay in the marriage, if you both are unhappy? or has she explained her part of why you aren't getting what you're wanting? How does she react, when you say you need more affection? What's her response? What's her reasoning as to why she hasn't given what you're asking for?


I wish I could answer all of those questions. Here are a few responses:

1. I do go to church with her now and then -- but I absolutely hate sitting in the back row of the balcony and I really don't like getting out of church at 12:30 in the afternoon. Half the time, I wait for her and she decides not to go because our son won't get out of bed. So I am 15 minutes late for church or more. I ask her to go to early service (9:30 AM) with me, but she won't. I try to get a commitment out of her and my son on Saturday night, but neither will commit. My daughter, when she is home, not only goes to early church and sits towards the front with me, she goes to breakfast with me.
2. Neither of us has resolved the issues (which are not all that clear) that make either of us have the desire to rekindle. I need to see her change but don't want to expect that out of her. I don't want to change any more.
3. She wants to stay in the marriage because of the stigma of divorce. She also says that I do not have grounds.
4. We both work. She started working full time about a year ago. She bought a car earlier this year and can not reduce her hours. Making time is really not an issue. It's more about wanting to.


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## wanttolove (Jan 25, 2012)

jld said:


> It must be painful to have to turn Sophia down. Like refusing a glass of cold water after a day under the desert sun.


Yes. I am very thirsty! I have been wandering the desert for more than a day.

What she said about my being in limbo is very true and tells me she understands. I wish I didn't have to say no, but I do.


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## New_Beginnings (Nov 16, 2015)

wanttolove said:


> New_Beginnings said:
> 
> 
> > Besides the lack of affection, I really haven't heard what went wrong In the marriage. I'm sure your wife feels some changes needed to be made on your part as well, what were those needs that she needed from you?
> ...



Here's the thing, I wouldn't get to 10years of no affection. Let alone a month without a touch from my husband. I would for sure address the issue and yes a sexless marriage could cause a major problem. I'm 100% with you on that.
No, I don't think that gives anyone a pass to find excitement outside of the marriage (whether it's being excited in just conversation and hoping for more). 

You're preaching to the wrong one, I did have a guy give me more attention (in conversation) before my husband and I got married. My husband and I had a child, we lived as a married couple (just not on paper). I wasn't getting certain things at home and found it in conversation with "a friend". 
Finally clicked, that I found what I wasn't getting at home and this guy wasnt Anyone special. Why would I want to know and get to know him better, he's aware I have a child and live with my boyfriend? If he's capable to start this off as a lie, me being committed to someone else then who's to say he wouldn't do same to me, if we decided to go further? Also I wasn't married and yet I felt real guilty. I didn't want to hurt the father of my child and I couldn't imagine losing him, over being flattered by attention he wasn't giving. What did I do? I told the guy we could no longer talk and it was disrespectful (to my BF!!) not my husband... I talked with my now husband (then BF) of things that I needed and what we needed to work on together. Here's the kicker, I even told him of my inappropriate talks and how I met up with the other man... He forgave me and guess what, he placed the effort into showing me he truly didn't want to lose our relationship. 

I was wrong for what I did. I can tell you that how you're going about either 1. Saving your marriage (wrong) or 2. Getting a divorce (wrong). I do by all means understand the need for physical and an emotional bond, I'm not saying you don't deserve those things. I'm saying if you feel you are no longer getting those needs met, divorce is what you're leaning towards then draw up the papers. 

I'm sorry your wife went through a loss, I'm sure it can be hard not being on the same page with wanting or not wanting more children. Parenting can also cause rifts, if not on the same page but those two things alone shouldn't cause reasons to seek divorce. Maybe she needed you in her time of loss. Maybe she felt you both were on the same page for another child? I'm not entirely sure. I'm not sure how old your child is but with him cussing you out, maybe he needs some counsel to get out why he's so angry? Why does he feel that's ok to talk to either parent that way. 

I wish you well and maybe I see this interaction as bad behavior because I've already been there done that. :/ I can tell you either way to leave Sophia alone. If you plan on divorce, get to know yourself better by finding yourself and self confidence.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

wanttolove said:


> Let me ask you this first -- if you haven't had sex with your spouse for over ten years, have not been treated with any interest for affection, have been rejected even when you have talked to your spouse about the lack of sex or attention from your spouse -- HOW WOULD YOU FEEL IF SOMEONE PAID ATTENTION TO YOU? We're not taking about sex, we are talking about how I feel.


wanttolove- please understand that I know how you must feel to be rejected for so long. You are so vulnerable at this point and have gone so long without basic, minimum needs being met that you will absolutely get deep into affair fog early and quickly with this woman if you don't shut it down.
That's why I say you need to get away from her. Not because you shouldn't be wanted but because you are so needy (and I don't mean that in a bad way) that you'll fall quick and do something you'll regret for the rest of your life. You're a good man. Stay that way. Don't taint yourself and your conscience. 

I think you deserve a good marriage, a good sex life, someone who wants you and pays attention to you. But you need to divorce first. 

Now you've seen it. A taste of what life can be like when you are single. Make your new years resolution to be with someone who wants you for the next. It may not be Sophia but she's out there and when you are divorced and ready, you'll find her.


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## New_Beginnings (Nov 16, 2015)

wanttolove said:


> New_Beginnings said:
> 
> 
> > Do you both work? If so, what's your twos schedules like. Do you both work different shifts? What things outside of counseling have you done to help rebuild this marriage?
> ...



1. You're the man of the house, tell your son to get his lazy A up and time for church. My father did same for me. If I wouldn't get out of bed? I wasn't able to do much of anything. I would have sports ect taken away if I wasn't following rules of the house. Your house and your rules until your child moves out. *****I can't follow with how you lean towards how your wife parents but you're the man of the house and allow your son to just stay in bed. You need to take control and take back being the man of your household. 

2. You both need to have a serious talk and outline the real issues. What are the real problems (for her and you) and if she doesn't want a divorce, how is she going to start putting effort to help save this marriage to being a happy one. If she doesn't truly try be clear that you will move forward with divorce, do so.

3. I would flat out tell your wife that your mind is slowing leaving the marriage and being stimulated elsewhere. That's grounds enough to claim an EA. She may end up trying to take that out on you, in a divorce so probably not the best idea to come out and state. 

4. If she's not wanting to make time for you, I would most definitely not continue on in a miserable marriage.


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## QuietNarrative (Dec 13, 2015)

Sounds like you are in a marriage that is over. If you truly are interested in being with Sophia, do it right. Leave your wife and go from there. If this is someone you truly want to be with don't start your relationship with deceit.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> *wanttolove said*: My wife and I have had many, many conversations about the *lack of respect* in our relationship.
> 
> *In counseling, she identified the original reason for cutting me off was that she feels that I did not support her during the procedure that followed a miscarriage, mainly because she wanted a third child (I didn't) and my reaction to the miscarriage was sadness mixed with relief.*
> 
> *We have different parenting styles *and that has led to a gap especially when dealing with our son, enough that her reaction to him cussing me out after a tennis match that he lost (she made me the bad guy without me doing anything) is what finally broke me and I consulted a divorce mediator. I proposed seeing the mediator to her and she refused.





> *wanttolove said*As is common, having children created a physical gap that grew after our second was born (a boy). The boy has been difficult and our parenting styles are different, a constant source of conflict between us the last ten years or so. She rejects any sort of discipline, openly defies me in front of him, *and has told me that she does not respect a man that she thinks is wrong. We both have issues of respect and have had many discussions about it*.


Ok... so whirlwind Infatuation marrying within a year..(always FEELS LIKE LOVE in it's beginnings -we can't get enough of each other, we can be blinded to the incompatibilities that lie ahead)... 

Then enters children "I'm too tired".. your advances being refused... your resentment grows.. she wants a 3rd child meanwhile daily conflicts with parenting styles has already destroyed the harmony in the marriage.. on top of what feels like "sexlessness".... 

Each can only see their own pain ... your wife was not feeling Loved ...most especially with the loss of this 3rd child...when she needed your emotional support the most.. but you were feeling "spent"... while she struggled alone, leaned on others .. 

This further lowered her respect for you.... you & she would end up taking your frustrations out "through the kids" ... vulnerability....a little humility.. NEVER [email protected]# .. We do the worst things when we're hurting.. we react... we blame.. we build walls.. it's a bad bad cycle...

Have you ever heard of this book... 

>>  Love & Respect: The Love She Most Desires, The Respect He Desperately Needs ... read the *Crazy Cycle* below... would this describe what you've been living the last 10 yrs or so? .....



> "Love And Respect" by Dr. Emerson Eggerichs is a phenomenal marriage tool that should be in the hands of every husband and wife. This book has drastically changed my approach to marriage, especially helping my husband and I understand each other and our responses a bit better. This book highlights some of the greatest communication mysteries that have perplexed husbands and wives for centuries! Eggerichs and his wife discovered a truth regarding marriages found in Ephesians 5:33,
> 
> “However, each one of you also must _love his wife_ as he loves himself, and the wife must _respect her husband_.”
> 
> ...


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## Duguesclin (Jan 18, 2014)

Wantolove, Are you scared of your wife?


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Losing your ring is no reason for not wearing one. The stores are full of wedding rings, cheap and expensive. Go buy yourself one, or better yet, tell your wife that you miss wearing a wedding ring, and ask her if she would like to help you pick one out.

My husband has lost 2 wedding rings at work since he isn't allowed to wear one, and forgets to leave it at home. He thinks the first one fell out of his pocket, and the other one fell off his key ring. Both times he let me know that he really wanted to buy another, because he likes wearing one. It made me feel good that he wanted to wear a ring whenever he wasn't at work.

Also, you are all about "service" while at church, helping everyone park. You should be home using all that energy serving your family.

I am speaking this way as a fellow Christian woman who thinks that married people shouldn't be using church as a pick-up site.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> I am speaking this way as a fellow Christian woman who thinks that *married people shouldn't be using church as a pick-up site*.


I have to admit, the bolded made me laugh. Just not what I think of when I think of "church."


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> The second cycle mentioned is referred to as The Energizing Cycle, in which case a husband or wife initiates a positive response, energizing the other to reciprocate a positive response. This is a great cycle in marriage, until someone drops the ball and no one desires to initiate again. If a husband or wife fails to initiate the marriage will quickly land back into The Crazy Cycle.


You & your wife are Christians.. you are those who believe that GOD can do miracles.. that God can take the worst situation and turn it around..breathe new life into it... what @IMFarAboveRubies suggested here...



> knowing that she would be more than happy to go to the later service with you.
> 
> Since you are an early riser, you could use the extra time (while your wife is sleeping) to make breakfast for the two of you. Take her a nice coffee to the bedroom when you hear she is up and about.


 These suggestions are good ! ... now there would be putting some "*ENERGIZING*" into your marriage.. have you & she watched  Fireproof -the movie .... have you ever heard of the book  the Love Dare -(I think this was used in that movie).... 




What do you want @wanttolove ? I realize you no longer believe there is hope with your wife..but how hard have you TRIED... truly tried to reach her ...to seek reconciliation?? 

How does she fill her days... her alone time...to make up for the loss of intimacy / connection/ bonding that you've both let go due to stubborness.. bitterness.... living as bickering roommates for the past 10 yrs ....

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...l-etc-how-robs-us-intimacy-we-crave-most.html



> *wanttolove said: *2. Neither of us has resolved the issues (which are not all that clear) that make either of us have the desire to rekindle. *I need to see her change* but don't want to expect that out of her.* I don't want to change any more.*
> 3. She wants to stay in the marriage because of the stigma of divorce. She also says that I do not have grounds.


 Staying within a marriage for these reasons ... what you don't realize is the message to your children.. do you think they don't see it.. FEEL IT every day. .. that mom & Dad cant stand each other.. when was the last time you laughed with each other.. and fell into each others arms.. in front of the kids ?? 

It doesn't matter if you all sit in a church pew every week & put on a smiley face before others... your examples before them, within the home where the heart is ......your influence is larger than you know..... 

Break the silence... Show your children HOW to communicate.. take that lead... give her something to respect... that when things get rough... that you'll still reach out to her/ to each other.. that you will try to meet the others needs ... and wants.. 

You both sound "Stubborn..set in your ways.. 'not willing to give an inch".. Change has to start with one of you.. 

You are HERE....so what do you want ...to reconnect, save your marriage , feeling it is worth the effort, or OUT.. to start a new life, meet new women?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

wanttolove said:


> Let me ask you this first --* if you haven't had sex with your spouse for over ten years, have not been treated with any interest for affection, have been rejected even when you have talked to your spouse about the lack of sex or attention from your spouse -- HOW WOULD YOU FEEL IF SOMEONE PAID ATTENTION TO YOU? We're not taking about sex, we are talking about how I feel*.


I believe we're all wired for intimacy.... for touching .. for bonding/ connection .. some of us NEED it / crave it more than others...it is ever more painful for those... I could never judge you.. for feeling this.. for being HUMAN basically.. as I'd have 10 fingers pointing back at myself..

If I wasn't being "fed" at home, our gardens watered & fertilized by our lovers....I'd emotionally melt into a puddle on the ground thinking "Take me.. take me.. take me"... you've been near drowning / thirsting in the desert... however one wants to describe desolate "emptiness" -it's a wonder you aren't depressed, have grown Numb.. . and you have towards your wife after all these yrs....anyone in your shoes is at *high risk* for falling into the arms of another....it's no way to live. 

Speaking about FEELING...I want to share this write up....this was written by a women in a sexless marriage.. Do you think it's possible your wife could be feeling this too, that she misses what once was... but she'd never let you see that...the resentment walls too high.... the saddest thing is.. you probably both crave what is laid out here... just with someone else.. 



> *This is What a Sexless Marriage Feels Like
> *
> 
> This post is not about virtue. It is not an ask for sympathy. It attempts to explore what I've learned about sex and sexuality since sex ended within my long-term relationship. I won't say much about why, because half of it is not my story to tell and I have no right. Just know that because of illness and after sharing a normal, monogamous, sexually active relationship for nearly a decade, my spouse suddenly lost the need, desire, and passion for sex.
> ...


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## fetishwife (Apr 22, 2012)

Can leave God our of this for a minute? 

God hasn't helped your marriage OR hurt it. God isn't leading you into this flirting/EA or stopping it from happening. God obviously doesn't care if you are happy or not, cant you tell by now? Have you heard the cliche...God helps those who help themselves? 

So since God has not led you to a happy marriage, why do you think God will help you out of it? 

I am NOT trying to speak against your believe in god or your religion. Please no one flame me for that. Thats up to you. HOWEVER...

I am somewhat disguised by your use of your beliefs and the name of God to apparently somehow justify staying in the marriage, which somehow justifies your pretty deceptive behavior.

I can see that you are using God as some sort of excuse or crutch in your life. That is pretty pathetic. If you really followed your supposed beliefs, then you would not be acting in this way. You would have acted in the way that any God would expect, which is to act like a true man and make something of your emotional life and if you have children...think about them FIRST....

Im trying to point out to you that you are using this as some sort of excuse or cover for your actions in this world.

Its YOU deciding to act in the way you are acting. Its YOU who are 1/2 or your apparently non-fulllfilling marriage.

STOP flirting. STOP heading down the horrible road towards a destructive affair. 

If your marriage is not fixable (10 years? I doubt it), AND you wish to have a real connection with another human being, then file for divorce.

Think of your children. Let me say that again (Im assuming you have children).

From personal experience, they may not react in the way you expect. If you have an affair are are not honest, they will be hurt and damaged.

Think or your finances. 

If that is who you are, re-examine your faith and find it again perhaps (as you are obviously lost according to my understanding of most faiths, you can not face your God and act the way you are acting).

Once you file for divorce and inform your family, as far as Im concerned (others may disagree) you are free to pursue another relationship IF YOU ARE HONEST with the other person.

And for your own best interest, consult an attorney immediately about your financial future.


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## New_Beginnings (Nov 16, 2015)

fetishwife said:


> Can leave God our of this for a minute?
> 
> God hasn't helped your marriage OR hurt it. God isn't leading you into this flirting/EA or stopping it from happening. God obviously doesn't care if you are happy or not, cant you tell by now? Have you heard the cliche...God helps those who help themselves?
> 
> ...



I defintely agree. OP, it's sickening to tell everyone about your involvement in the church but how you're getting your ego struck as well. As one who grew up in the church, this is not why people gather to church to set eyes on another woman, your eyes should be lifted to God. 

What would Jesus do?


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## New_Beginnings (Nov 16, 2015)

I called you manipulative early on, for painting this person who's serving God and a holy man at church (you said yourself a people pleaser). You painted a picture of a man who's wife turned cold and been cold for 10yrs?? A man who's truly tried working on his marriage and her not putting forth any effort.

Then when called on it, you asked how I would feel if I was in a sexless marriage (defensively). Pointing fingers at me, instead of facing or accepting wrong doing on your part. You are at church for the wrong reasons. If you are one who claims to put God first, do you really think he will bless you and Sophia in the future? You should already be aware that this service should no longer be a service you attend. You possibly should look for another church period. If you are a God fearing man that you claim to be?? Your sight in the Lords house should be on him, not looking forward to interactions with another woman. 

You need to seek forgiveness and find counsel for yourself. You need to work through how you seem to think you have it so together and clearly covering up the real you. The real you is being tempted, the real you is wanting to act out and finding the temptation in the Lords house. This is not a place of worship.. The Lord will hold you accountable and you can't keep turning this on your wife, be accountable for your actions.


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## wanttolove (Jan 25, 2012)

For those who want to bring my belief in God into this or take it out -- I believe in God and that will not ever change. People who believe in God are people who need God's forgiveness, who are tempted, who sin, just like anyone else. Temptation happens in a church building -- the building is not some magical sanctuary and the fact that a Christian can be tempted while in that building proves one thing, that the people are the church, not the building.

I am tempted by this woman. Her attention has made me feel good. It shouldn't matter where it happened. The sin is not in the temptation, it is in accepting the temptation. Will I take it farther? I don't know but writing this out has made me see how vulnerable I am (although I had a pretty good idea that I am).

If you'll look through one of my comments here, you'll see that I have tried to find counsel. The pastor won't meet with me. The counselor is too expensive for me to see on a regular basis ($160 per hour until the $6000 deductible is met). I haven't painted myself as perfect. 

Thanks to you who have not judged and are trying to offer practical encouragement. I am reading your comments.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I would not have lasted any time at all without my husband's love. And certainly not ten years!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## giddiot (Jun 28, 2015)

jld said:


> I would not have lasted any time at all without my husband's love. And certainly not ten years!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



So you liked this post, why have you procrastinated in an unhealthy marriage for 10 years? Everybody has choices.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

New_Beginnings said:


> I defintely agree. OP, it's sickening to tell everyone about your involvement in the church but how you're getting your ego struck as well. As one who grew up in the church, this is not why people gather to church to set eyes on another woman, your eyes should be lifted to God.
> 
> What would Jesus do?


This man has NOT stepped out *yet*.. the feelings he is struggling with would happen to anyone.. who has blood running through their veins.... christian or non... 

I'm personally not a christian anymore...I always struggled with guilt for the dumbest things when I tried to be.... one thing that's always bugged me is.. trying to shame someone into submission before listening to their human struggle... 

Don't cast the 1st stone here before throwing a blood stained Jesus in another's face.. when others speak how he SAT with SINNERS.. and he rebuked the self righteous.. yeah... there's a reason for this.. because he , too identified with our human pain.. what causes us tears...( @wanttolove spoke in his opening post "I need closeness, so painful my desire at times that it brings me to tears."... 

Would Jesus speak to DO the right thing.. the honest thing.. the hard thing.. Yes ! that could lead to saving this marriage.. absolutely.. but he'd also offer some compassion , to his struggle ..to encourage him in the right way, the honorable way.... 

If all we do is trample, judge & shame when another opens up.. well this is why society is so COLD & full of Betrayal.. people learn it's better to be secretive than get lashed.. though it's never the way of "conscience" or doing the right thing..regardless of what faith we are.. it's about integrity.. 

I work for a woman whose husband cheated on her....these were Church going people also.... what led up to this happening was heartbreaking.. she got a staff infection -which led to her being confined to her bed for nearly 2 yrs.. he fell under the weight of being a Caretaker... he didn't resist the temptation.... this man hid , he lied to his family.. when his daughter found out.. she NEVER forgave him.. he's never seen his 2 grandchildren... this was 20 yrs ago now.. there are heavy consequences to our actions...

Don't make these mistakes WanttoLove...


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## wanttolove (Jan 25, 2012)

giddiot said:


> Where did that come from? She has not projected anything I can see. You just don't like the message. There are rules in this forum that you don't criticize others for their opinions. I think this is a cruel comment.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


It came from what she has said in several replies to this thread. And I feel like what she is saying is coming from something that has happened to her and it's causing her to judge me and criticize me based on the actions of someone else. It's less about expressing opinion than it is about an attempt to punish. That IS projection. It's also bullying. It's also cruel. I believe there are rules about that also.


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## giddiot (Jun 28, 2015)

wanttolove said:


> It came from what she has said in several replies to this thread. And I feel like what she is saying is coming from something that has happened to her and it's causing her to judge me and criticize me based on the actions of someone else. It's less about expressing opinion than it is about an attempt to punish. That IS projection. It's also bullying. It's also cruel. I believe there are rules about that also.


That does not give you the right to say what you did. If you have an issue with a poster you can either report them to a mod or put them in your ignore list. Comments like yours are against the rules.


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## New_Beginnings (Nov 16, 2015)

wanttolove said:


> giddiot said:
> 
> 
> > Where did that come from? She has not projected anything I can see. You just don't like the message. There are rules in this forum that you don't criticize others for their opinions. I think this is a cruel comment.
> ...



Hmmm you asked what I would do in a sexless marriage and how I'd possibly like attention that I wasn't receiving. I shared I carried out a conversation such as you and now I'm projecting???? I'm letting you know that you're not innocent and for those saying you haven't stepped out of your marriage.. Your inner thoughts and secret thoughts might be that of one who is. 

Christian or not, the house of God isn't the place to dwell in active sin.. I wasn't married and still saw my wrong as a wrong, I owned it. Thanks again for telling me off about myself and trying to portray what or how you're going about your wrongdoing as ok.


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## New_Beginnings (Nov 16, 2015)

wanttolove said:


> And New Beginnings, please get some help. It is real obvious that you have some issues and you are trying to project them on someone else.



If you can't handle the truth so be it. Doesn't mean come point fingers in this direction. You need the help, you asked how I would feel and just because I shared that I had felt attention elsewhere (like you) doesn't mean project that as now I need to fix my issues. That was only showcasing been there done that, my boyfriend was well aware. Does your wife know of your friendship with Sophia???ok then.


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## wanttolove (Jan 25, 2012)

giddiot said:


> So you liked this post, why have you procrastinated in an unhealthy marriage for 10 years? Everybody has choices.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I did like her post and her other post, as well as the posts she liked. I felt support from those comments.

"Procrastinated" is a pretty harsh word and it conveys an attitude of judgement. You know that I believe in God and am a Christian. Persistence and hope are the marks of someone who believes in God, someone who believes that God is providing and that there is something better to come once this life is through. A counselor, a devout Jewish man, talked to me about that as he could not understand how Christians will persist in an unhappy situation (in my case it was both my marriage and the stress of my job) all because of the hope of heaven.

There is more than one reason, but the first is the most significant.

- I made a vow. I am trying to stick to it. 
- I believe that there is always love and that love changes.. and I am trying to figure out what to do about the love I still feel.
- I have children who I believe need two parents in the same household. My children are 19 and 16. I don't believe that they are at the point of maturity where it would be healthy for their parents to separate. Our house is not hell, even if the parents do not have a relationship that is affectionate.
- My wife's family adores me and I know it. Her family is one of the reasons she is fighting a divorce.

There are more. Does this help you to understand?


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## JukeboxHero (Mar 3, 2015)

Hello @wanttolove

1. Have you literally had NO sex or physical intimacy in a decade? Like 0 times in past 10 yrs? I just want to make sure, because some people define sexless or NO sex when they actually mean "not enough sex for me". 

Are you just 2 people sharing a house and raising your kids?

2. I haven't read all your posts, but you should share more details about the downfall of your marriage.


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## wanttolove (Jan 25, 2012)

New_Beginnings said:


> ...you asked how I would feel..


Did you answer that question? If you did, I am sorry for not noticing. However, you are filling in a lot of blanks, blaming and accusing me of something that has not happened. You really seem to be more concerned about pointing a finger. Those issues are yours, not mine. You do not seem to be concerned about how I feel, only about what I have done or even what I may do. That is accusing. It doesn't help. It only hurts.


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## wanttolove (Jan 25, 2012)

JukeboxHero said:


> Hello @wanttolove
> 
> 1. Have you literally had NO sex or physical intimacy in a decade? Like 0 times in past 10 yrs? I just want to make sure, because some people define sexless or NO sex when they actually mean "not enough sex for me".
> 
> ...


Zero. We are two people sharing a house and raising our kids.

I do have other posts that share more details. I have shared a few more details in comments on this post. If you want to know more, I would be glad to share them with you. Message me!


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## New_Beginnings (Nov 16, 2015)

wanttolove said:


> New_Beginnings said:
> 
> 
> > ...you asked how I would feel..
> ...



Honestly, I've just read your replies to pretty much everyone on here about how tempted you are and yet enjoy engaging with this woman. That's playing with fire. I'm not sure where I'm pointing fingers, when you've said things for yourself that says guilty behavior. I'm only addressing things you have stated. It's not accusing its showing you facts, of what you shared. 

I wouldn't get upset. Ask yourself, what would I have to gain to bully you over your marriage and this other woman? Truly nothing. If my being blunt and trying to make light of how bad this could be, currently is I'm sorry. I do think this could be a saved marriage. I think taking ownership is the first step to trying to fix issues. The blame one vs other (you and your wife) won't save the marriage.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

wanttolove said:


> It came from what she has said in several replies to this thread. And I feel like what she is saying is coming from something that has happened to her and it's causing her to judge me and criticize me based on the actions of someone else. It's less about expressing opinion than it is about an attempt to punish. That IS projection. It's also bullying. It's also cruel. I believe there are rules about that also.


Our strong reactions could be from being Betrayed in this way/ on the receiving end.. or maybe we grew up watching a parent go through it.. someone we loved.. it can "trigger"... 

Or just having very strong feelings that a man should Never look at another woman.. I don't think anything said needs reported by any means.. one has to have a tough skin here.. you'll learn this earlier enough.. 

I was reading this thread the other day.. the strong emotions unleashed .. when infidelity touches a marriage... heartbreaking.. soul crushing.. whether it be a Wayward spouse OR the Betrayed.. both shared ...this should be a STICKY here on TAM.. a warning to all...

*>> *http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/306482-whats-worst-thing-about-infidelity.html




> *New_Beginnings said*: I'm letting you know that you're not innocent and for those saying you haven't stepped out of your marriage.. Your inner thoughts and secret thoughts might be that of one who is.


 Ok.. this gets to the heart of it.. it's a difference of opinion.. a difference of where your line is.. Year ago I caught this christian program called "*the Way of the Master*'... it always rubbed me the wrong way.. in a very bad way.. . it seemed pure manipulation to me... 

How Kirk Cameron & his side kick would walk the streets -- seeking people to convert to Christianity.....what was their HOOK ....always the same question..."Have you ever looked at a woman and lusted for her in your heart?"..

GUILTY !.... you are a pathetic lustful sinner deserving of rotting in hell for the rest of your life.. Shamed into submission again... 

I don't see it this black & white...not at all... Do our actions mean anything?? Is their any virtue in *restraint*?? .. I surely believe THERE IS.. if the man who has a lustful thought is AS GUILTY as the man who took a woman to bed... We might as well all cut off our right arms or purge our eyes out.. 

I can't go there.. *I see honor in restraint*... But true.... acknowledge your temptation...your weakness, you don't want to FEED IT (others warnings here have value - heed it).....Pray for strength , direction.... seek counsel to do the honorable thing... opening the communication with your wife to see what can be found among the ashes... or bring this to an End...



> *JukeboxHero said*: 1. Have you literally had NO sex or physical intimacy in a decade? Like 0 times in past 10 yrs? I just want to make sure, because some people define sexless or NO sex when they actually mean "not enough sex for me".


 just want to give the Sex therapist definition = anything less than 10 or less times in a year ..would be labeled "sexless"..


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## New_Beginnings (Nov 16, 2015)

SimplyAmorous said:


> wanttolove said:
> 
> 
> > It came from what she has said in several replies to this thread. And I feel like what she is saying is coming from something that has happened to her and it's causing her to judge me and criticize me based on the actions of someone else. It's less about expressing opinion than it is about an attempt to punish. That IS projection. It's also bullying. It's also cruel. I believe there are rules about that also.
> ...



I honestly don't attend church regularly and don't watch church programs. For me something is wrong (personal opinion) if you can place yourself in the other persons shoes and feel hurt. If I'd be crushed if my husband was placing interest (even with just his mind) then I would refrain in zero contact. If I saw temptation, I'd remove myself from the temptation and or place an end to my marriage. 

I wouldn't continue to place an interest into someone else without putting an end first to my current partner. You're right though, it's a matter of opinion if inner thoughts hold just as much weight as acting on them. I would say by not shutting down the temptation it's only hurting yourself and whomever involved just as an affair would.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

@SimplyAmorous

I think Jesus just meant that we should not judge those who are not sexually pure. Who of us truly is?


OP, how have you lasted so long? Love for the kids? Desire to live a godly life?

I would have been out of a marriage like that so fast. Could not have lasted more than a few hours being treated coldly and without love. I would have shut down and then started seeking an escape.

But I am a woman, and maybe that makes it different. My husband, Duguesclin, is following this thread and thinks you need to start meeting your wife's needs, and that can start the healing of your marriage.

Could you answer his question to you about being afraid of your wife, please? Any truth to that?


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## giddiot (Jun 28, 2015)

wanttolove said:


> I did like her post and her other post, as well as the posts she liked. I felt support from those comments.
> 
> "Procrastinated" is a pretty harsh word and it conveys an attitude of judgement. You know that I believe in God and am a Christian. Persistence and hope are the marks of someone who believes in God, someone who believes that God is providing and that there is something better to come once this life is through. A counselor, a devout Jewish man, talked to me about that as he could not understand how Christians will persist in an unhappy situation (in my case it was both my marriage and the stress of my job) all because of the hope of heaven.
> 
> ...


I am a Christian too and procrastination is not a implication of fault it is the description of an action. She has broken her vows of protecting you from temptation.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

wanttolove said:


> - My wife's family adores me and I know it. Her family is one of the reasons she is fighting a divorce.


Have you been transparent with her family? Have you laid everything out on the table for them?

I would.


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## Hope Shimmers (Jul 10, 2015)

wanttolove said:


> You may not understand the struggle I am dealing with. It may be a simple decision for someone who doesn’t believe in God the way I do, who is trying to make life choices that honor God. It’s not easy knowing what is right, no matter where you stand.


Do you think that what you are doing now is right? Do you think that God wants us to spend decades of our lives in a marriage that is completely sexless and is not emotionally fulfilling because "you took a vow"?

Are you teaching your teenage children what marriage is supposed to look like? Or are you teaching them that they should 'settle' - that a loving partnership is not necessary?

Maybe your son is acting out because deep down (or not so deep down) he knows that he doesn't live in a happy household. Maybe he even blames himself for it.



wanttolove said:


> A large part of me wants to give up, to at least find a physical and emotional refuge, a woman who will make me feel good again. I need closeness, so painful my desire at times that it brings me to tears.


This is your problem, right here. The church woman is irrelevant. She just represents what you don't have. It could be any woman who you found remotely attractive and who made you feel attractive and gave you emotional support.

The first thing you should do, IMO, is to completely ignore the judgmental posts on "how could you do this in a house of God". You are a human being, you have opened up to members here which is what this forum is supposed to be about. You're not perfect and haven't claimed to be. In fact, you are here BEFORE taking steps to go further with this woman rather than waiting until it's too late.

All of that is good. What you do at this point will make all the difference.



wanttolove said:


> My journey continues. I have been struggling with thoughts of divorce for several years now, so much that I told my wife last June that I want a divorce. Still not there yet, but this Christmas eve story reveals a lot about where my heart already is. It feels like cheating, but is it really?


Is it "cheating"?

Does it really matter?

Some will define it one way; others will say the complete opposite. 

What matter is what YOU think. And YOU think it is, on some level, wrong - because you are here posting about it. 

I don't believe it matters how you label it. The fact is, you are struggling with feelings for another person (whom you barely know - and who very well could be saying things that are not quite true to you). The fact that you are tempted, but barely know her, is telling. it is not HER, per se, but rather the idea of her. You are emotionally and sexually starved and you need to fix THAT. And NOT by having a full-blown affair. Things are bad enough already; that will just blow everything up to a whole new level of disaster.

You need to get off the fence about your marriage. One way or the other. All in, or all out. How many more YEARS or DECADES are you going to live like this, and watch life pass you by? Because if you spend another decade like this, I can guarantee you that you. Will. Regret. It. You have One Life. That's it.

Make 2016 your year of action. It's okay to think about your own wants and needs, because when you are happy, you radiate that to your kids and everyone around you. They KNOW you are miserable. That has to be tearing them up inside.

Your kids are old enough that you need to stop using them as an excuse not to divorce. 

If you decide to stay in your marriage, then you must put 100% effort in making it work - making it fulfilling for both of you. And SHE must be willing to put 100% effort in as well. If she isn't, then leave. It takes two people to have a marriage. If you cannot (or if you or she will not) put forth that effort, then the marriage is fulfilling no one, and you should leave. My opinion.


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

Well thought through post. I hope the OP takes it seriously.


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## VeryHurt (Mar 11, 2011)

I could type pages and pages about my feelings but I fear that I would blow up this website. 

So, I'll give you the Reader's Digest version:

Your Church sounds more like a Meat Market than a Place of Worship!

And Sophia, well quite frankly women like her is the reason why marriages and families are breaking up by the nanoseconds.

I don't think you are "struggling with temptation," you are struggling with morality.


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## wanttolove (Jan 25, 2012)

giddiot said:


> I am a Christian too and procrastination is not a implication of fault it is the description of an action. She has broken her vows of protecting you from temptation.


That's what Paul addressed in his letter to the Corinthians, I Corinthians chapters 6 and 7. In a culture where sex is readily available (and this day and age is just as bad or worse than it was in Corinth), spouses must "protect" each other by not neglecting physical sexual needs. He doesn't describe it as a vow, but he may as well have.

Of course, Paul also says that a woman should not separate from her husband and that a husband should not divorce his wife....


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## wanttolove (Jan 25, 2012)

VeryHurt said:


> I don't think you are "struggling with temptation," you are struggling with morality.


What's the difference?


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## wanttolove (Jan 25, 2012)

jld said:


> @SimplyAmorous
> Could you answer his question to you about being afraid of your wife, please? Any truth to that?


I didn't answer the question because I didn't know why the question was asked? "Afraid" can take a lot of different forms.

The short answer is no, I am not afraid of my wife.

A good example of how Jesus reacted to someone who was sexually immoral (caught in adultery) can be found in John 8. He didn't judge or condemn her for what she had done, he told her to stop doing it. His strongest reaction was to her accusers, saying to them "Let any of you who is without sin throw the first stone" and Jesus also wrote something in the dirt (I would love to know what it was).


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## wanttolove (Jan 25, 2012)

jld said:


> Have you been transparent with her family? Have you laid everything out on the table for them?
> 
> I would.


I went to my father in law and his wife, had a very frank discussion with him. I asked him questions about his relationship with my mother in law, about what it was like in the house that my wife grew up in. He was fairly frank with me and I learned a lot from the discussion. I also let him know about the struggles I was having with my wife and that I was considering divorce, why I was considering it.

My wife has six older sisters. No brothers. You asked me if I am afraid of my wife. I'm not, but dealing with her sisters would be a royal PIA.


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## wanttolove (Jan 25, 2012)

Hope Shimmers said:


> Do you think that what you are doing now is right? Do you think that God wants us to spend decades of our lives in a marriage that is completely sexless and is not emotionally fulfilling because "you took a vow"?
> 
> Are you teaching your teenage children what marriage is supposed to look like? Or are you teaching them that they should 'settle' - that a loving partnership is not necessary?


All questions that I have been asked or have asked myself before. The second question is my biggest struggle, one I have prayed about a lot. It's difficult to move what I want out of the way, which is to chuck it all and move on because I don't have hope that my marriage will ever be anything but a coexistence. 

But what if my teenage children need to learn the power of persistence and sticking to a vow? My parents both share with me that their marriage has not always been bliss, but after more than fifty years they are experiencing a vibrant marriage with respect developed through sticking with it.. and a deep faith.



Hope Shimmers said:


> Maybe your son is acting out because deep down (or not so deep down) he knows that he doesn't live in a happy household. Maybe he even blames himself for it.


It's possible. He has been the source of much of the conflict in his parents' marriage.





Hope Shimmers said:


> This is your problem, right here. The church woman is irrelevant. She just represents what you don't have. It could be any woman who you found remotely attractive and who made you feel attractive and gave you emotional support....In fact, you are here BEFORE taking steps to go further with this woman rather than waiting until it's too late.
> 
> All of that is good. What you do at this point will make all the difference.
> 
> ...


Thanks. Good opinion and very well said. I appreciate it.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

What if your teenage children seek out partners that lead to a relationship that mirrors the only one with which they have intimate experience?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## wanttolove (Jan 25, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> What if your teenage children seek out partners that lead to a relationship that mirrors the only one with which they have intimate experience?


That really is totally out of my control. Someone might say differently, that seeing their parents unhappy and without physical affection for each other is something terrible, and I can do something about that. Maybe so. The truth is that it is reality. The benefit of having two parents who care enough about them to stay together is more important, obviously IMO. 

Our daughter is old enough to talk to her mother about the relationship she sees between her parents, and she has. As her father, I am trying to find the right way to talk to my daughter about that very thing. It's not easy for me to do, not that I do not have deeper conversations with my daughter, but I am trying to figure out the right way to talk to her about the relationship that I have with her mother.


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## VeryHurt (Mar 11, 2011)

wanttolove said:


> What's the difference?


A dictionary may be helpful.


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## Heatherknows (Aug 21, 2015)

wanttolove said:


> That's what Paul addressed in his letter to the Corinthians, I Corinthians chapters 6 and 7. In a culture where sex is readily available (and this day and age is just as bad or worse than it was in Corinth), spouses must "protect" each other by not neglecting physical sexual needs. He doesn't describe it as a vow, but he may as well have.
> 
> Of course, Paul also says that a woman should not separate from her husband and that a husband should not divorce his wife....


And in the end everyone ultimately does what is best for them. You're not a saint for staying, you're not a sinner for leaving. Deep down I don't think people are afraid of God or going to hell. I think people are afraid of being unhappy.


There are no great choices if you're already married. There are just choices.


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## Hope Shimmers (Jul 10, 2015)

wanttolove said:


> But what if my teenage children need to learn the power of persistence and sticking to a vow? My parents both share with me that their marriage has not always been bliss, but after more than fifty years they are experiencing a vibrant marriage with respect developed through sticking with it.. and a deep faith.


But persistence to what? Sticking to what vow? Persistence in staying in a marriage that is emotionally dead? Did you take a vow for that? What about if your spouse is not upholding HER vows (which is arguably the case)? Then what are you really "sticking" to, and where is the honor in it?

If your daughter married someone who beat her, should she stay in the marriage because she took a vow? Where is the line?

I'm not suggesting you get divorced. I'm suggesting that if your reason to stay is because you "took a vow", you should be very clear (with yourself) what vows you are upholding, and be accepting of how your wife's behavior might impact that promise. Because the picture you paint doesn't suggest a lot of love, honor, or respect (the latter word being one you just used to describe your parents' marriage), and that's what marriage vows mean to many people.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## wanttolove (Jan 25, 2012)

VeryHurt said:


> Your Church sounds more like a Meat Market than a Place of Worship!{/QUOTE]
> 
> Some can be, I suppose. What better place for another Christian to meet another Christian? However, I would never say that my church remotely resembles a meat market unless meeting God there makes it a meet market.
> 
> ...


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## wanttolove (Jan 25, 2012)

Hope Shimmers said:


> But persistence to what? Sticking to what vow? Persistence in staying in a marriage that is emotionally dead? Did you take a vow for that? What about if your spouse is not upholding HER vows (which is arguably the case)? Then what are you really "sticking" to, and where is the honor in it?
> 
> If your daughter married someone who beat her, should she stay in the marriage because she took a vow? Where is the line?
> 
> I'm not suggesting you get divorced. I'm suggesting that if your reason to stay is because you "took a vow", you should be very clear (with yourself) what vows you are upholding, and be accepting of how your wife's behavior might impact that promise. Because the picture you paint doesn't suggest a lot of love, honor, or respect (the latter word being one you just used to describe your parents' marriage), and that's what marriage vows mean to many people.


Oh, I do get it. There is that whole "for better, for worse" and "until death do us part" thing. A vow or covenant made before God. That is hard to break. I really struggle with that because, contrary to what it may seem, I really want to do what is right before God. I am trying (yes, I said "trying") to do what is right.

I am only still with my wife because I said I would stay, that I would try counseling. The problem with counseling is that I can not afford it, so I don't go. That's not an excuse (before someone says it is).

Believe me when I say that I have already considered that my wife's behavior must constitute breaking her vow to me. When I read I Corinthians 6-7 that is very clear to me. But Paul also says that a woman must not separate from her husband and a husband must not divorce his wife. Jesus says that divorce can only happen due to infidelity (although breaking the vow might be considered that).

Thanks for the care in your response. I appreciate (added via edit from here on) food for thought. I am here at TAM to cope and to think things through.


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## Hope Shimmers (Jul 10, 2015)

wanttolove said:


> But Paul also says that a woman must not separate from her husband and a husband must not divorce his wife. Jesus says that divorce can only happen due to infidelity (although breaking the vow might be considered that).


This is where my problems with treating the Bible as black and white come in. I was in an abusive marriage for many years. I believe that to be at least as good of a reason for divorce as infidelity. Yet, according to the Bible, I should have stayed and just dealt with it.

Pretty hard to come to terms with something like that. 



wanttolove said:


> Thanks for the care in your response. I appreciate (added via edit from here on) food for thought. I am here at TAM to cope and to think things through.


You are welcome.


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## wanttolove (Jan 25, 2012)

Hope Shimmers said:


> This is where my problems with treating the Bible as black and white come in. I was in an abusive marriage for many years. I believe that to be at least as good of a reason for divorce as infidelity. Yet, according to the Bible, I should have stayed and just dealt with it.
> 
> Pretty hard to come to terms with something like that.


As I get older (not necessarily more mature), I don't see the Bible in as much black and white as I once did. This is a dangerous thing to say, but I think many Christians make the mistake of taking what they have been taught to believe as truth and without questioning it. My parents, even though I look at them as genuine, real Christians, are stuck on cliche'. They are foundation Christians with a strong, rock solid faith. But they are also the people who taught me to ask questions, that doubt is good and essential for growth.

My parents believe that abuse is a reason for divorce. They think I am being abused. They have told me that they will support my decision, whether it be to leave or stay. Everything they have demonstrated to me and to my wife shows that they mean it. Can you tell that I like my parents? 

My wife is conservative Baptist, stubborn in her beliefs. We butt heads in a lot of the ways of faith. She comes across as judgemental and can be condenscending, is very black and white, and she was that way when I proposed divorce to her a few months ago. She says that I have no grounds or spiritual reason for divorce. I told her that alienation of affection is grounds.. and is breaking her vow to me.


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