# Marriage is Work?



## Kria (Aug 4, 2013)

I watched a short interview with Sylvester Stallone and he was asked a question about marriage. Do you agree with his perspective? What are your thoughts about his answer?

Question he was asked:

"What's your advice for men looking for wives?"

His answer:

"I find that if you have to work at a relationship, it's not working. It either happens or it doesn't. When you can just be yourself and she can be herself and somehow you both get along, that's the right girl. When you have to walk on eggshells or she has to change her whole personality to get along with you, that's not going to last I don't think. Eventually something's going to break."


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## tryingtobebetter (Aug 6, 2012)

I do not think he understands what people mean when they talk about working at their marriage. It does not involve either changing your whole personality or walking on eggshells.


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## Kria (Aug 4, 2013)

tryingtobebetter said:


> I do not think he understands what people mean when they talk about working at their marriage. It does not involve either changing your whole personality or walking on eggshells.


What does working at a marriage mean to you then? Do you believe that if a couple gets along well and are at ease with each other then less work would be required because the two people would be more in sync and see eye to eye on most matters?


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## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

He's right.

When you are truly in love with your spouse... and visa versa... you don't have to work at it.

Not only do we love each other.. we LIKE each other. We agree on virtually everything. There just aren't any areas that we disagree upon. 

So, that being the case, there just isn't a lot of conflict.

My first marriage was hell. When I got out of it.. I was done with marriage. I was so miserable when I was married that I never intended to every get married again..

I was dating a lot... but my rule was that I never date the same girl more than twice in a row. If they got clingy... I'd tell them. "Look I have no interest in getting married. If you want to get married you need to be dating someone else!"

Long story short... I met a girl that knocked my socks off... who made me feel just absolutely wonderful. I ended up marrying her.

been married 22 years and we're still in love.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Kria said:


> "I find that if you have to work at a relationship, it's not working. It either happens or it doesn't. When you can just be yourself and she can be herself and somehow you both get along, that's the right girl. When you have to walk on eggshells or she has to change her whole personality to get along with you, that's not going to last I don't think. Eventually something's going to break."


He must be as dumb as the characters he plays. Probably 95 percent of marriages fall in between the la-di-da "somehow" it's working and the complete incompatibility extremes he's talking about. Of course marriage is work, in the sense that it requires maintenance. Check out the Coping With Infidelity forum for some stories about people who didn't work at it.


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## Kria (Aug 4, 2013)

hambone said:


> He's right.
> 
> When you are truly in love with your spouse... and visa versa... you don't have to work at it.
> 
> ...


That's my take on it too. When you are truly in agreement with your partner on issues it is easier to get along and there is little conflict which requires less work.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Kria said:


> That's my take on it too. When you are truly in agreement with your partner on issues it is easier to get along and there is little conflict which requires less work.


Nope, sorry. 37 years of marriage talking here. Work is not about conflict resolution--it is about keeping communication open and adapting to one another's inevitable changes over time.


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## Kria (Aug 4, 2013)

Philat said:


> He must be as dumb as the characters he plays. Probably 95 percent of marriages fall in between the la-di-da "somehow" it's working and the complete incompatibility extremes he's talking about. Of course marriage is work, in the sense that it requires maintenance. Check out the Coping With Infidelity forum for some stories about people who didn't work at it.


I feel there is a difference between working at a relationship and maintaining it. If your relationship started on a good solid foundation there shouldn't be much to work on and only light to medium maintenance.

Also, Sylvester Stallone is far from dumb as well as many of the characters he has played.


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## Cleigh (Dec 5, 2013)

im not married but I still believe that it take, what kria said maintenance. It shouldn't be hard work but you do need to make sure its working in a sense.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Kria said:


> *I feel there is a difference between working at a relationship and maintaining it. If your relationship started on a good solid foundation there shouldn't be much to work on and only light to medium maintenance.*
> 
> Also, Sylvester Stallone is far from dumb as well as many of the characters he has played.


Your thread title uses the word "marriage" but your posts (and Sly's interview) talk about "relationships." There's a difference. In marriage, work and maintenance are one and the same. It simply means paying attention to what's going on and not becoming complacent. It does not mean having to correct deficiencies.


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## Kria (Aug 4, 2013)

Philat said:


> Nope, sorry. 37 years of marriage talking here. Work is not about conflict resolution--it is about keeping communication open and adapting to one another's inevitable changes over time.


I didn't just mention conflict. I also mentioned getting along and being in agreement on things which obviously requires communication. Without communication there is conflict and conflict can be without words and silent.



Philat said:


> Your thread title uses the word "marriage" but your posts (and Sly's interview) talk about "relationships." There's a difference. In marriage, work and maintenance are one and the same. It simply means paying attention to what's going on and not becoming complacent. It does not mean having to correct deficiencies.


The question asked of Sylvester Stallone was about looking for a wife and he himself is married so I take when he answered the question and said relationship he was talking about marriage. Having a marriage is a relationship so he can use that word.


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## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

Philat said:


> Nope, sorry. 37 years of marriage talking here. Work is not about conflict resolution--it is about keeping communication open and adapting to one another's inevitable changes over time.


When you love your spouse... you want to please them.. It is NOT work... you are considerate and it all comes so easy.


And, when you marry someone who you are totally compatible with.. there isn't a lot of conflict. There is no conflict to resolve in the first place.

My wife and I have never had a screaming/yelling argument. We love and respect each other too much to do that. 

We have not had to work at our marriage... It has not been a struggle.

For one thing... we don't get into power struggles... We focus on the issue and try to figure out what's the best solution for our family....

See, we agree on money, politics, children, religion, fashion, etc. etc. etc.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Sorry, I guess we just have different conceptions of the word "work." For me it is not a negative--it means investment of time and energy.

have a nice day.


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## Kria (Aug 4, 2013)

Philat said:


> Sorry, I guess we just have different conceptions of the word "work." For me it is not a negative--it means investment of time and energy.
> 
> have a nice day.


I'll compare a relationship or marriage in this case to a car with cruise control. You should be able to just coast sometimes in a relationship without always having to keep your foot on the gas in order to move ahead.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

hambone said:


> When you love your spouse... you want to please them.. It is NOT work... you are considerate and it all comes so easy.


"Work" doesn't always have to mean negative. Just because you like doing something doesn't mean it doesn't still take work. You can love your job, love your kids, love baking, etc but doing any of those things right will still take effort and actions. 
If you enjoy doing them, great. But you can't just sit around and do nothing in a relationship and expect it to last. You're working at it whether you enjoy it or not IMO.

I think a better point would be to find someone that you want to work for and with and who will work for and with you to make a good relationship, not that you should find someone who you'll never have to make an effort for.


ETA- Philat must have posted while I was typing  I agree with him


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Kria said:


> I'll compare a relationship or marriage in this case to a car with cruise control. You should be able to just coast sometimes in a relationship without always having to keep your foot on the gas in order to move ahead.


But you still need to pay attention to the road and operate the steering wheel.


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## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> "Work" doesn't always have to mean negative. Just because you like doing something doesn't mean it doesn't still take work. You can love your job, love your kids, love baking, etc but doing any of those things right will still take effort and actions.
> If you enjoy doing them, great. But you can't just sit around and do nothing in a relationship and expect it to last. You're working at it whether you enjoy it or not IMO.
> 
> I think a better point would be to find someone that you want to work for and with and who will work for and with you to make a good relationship, not that you should find someone who you'll never have to make an effort for.
> ...


Work implies effort in my book.. As in, an activity that makes you tired. I have never gotten tired of my wife.


My relationship with my wife as been effortless. 

We've spent 2 weeks apart in 22 years. After being apart one week, I drove all the way from Wisconsin to Louisiana non-stop because I was missing her so bad. I was ready to go home after 3 days but couldn't. I was just miserable that last 4 days. 

I retired at 45. We spend 24/7/365 and we never get tired of being with each other. 

I can't make it any clearer than I love my wife with all my heart and soul and she feels the same way about me. 

We still hold hands when we walk together.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

I think a marriage needs to be regularly tended to and nurtured, like a garden, as opposed to "work".

There will be rough times and during those times it will take "work" to keep it going...but having to work at it all.. the...time....no, I don't think so, not if the foundation is right


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

Work is somewhere I go to earn money and pay bills. Marriage is somewhere I would like to go to enjoy, to love and plan world domination with a person I care about deeply.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

I agree with Philat... 

When I married my exH we were the best of friends. We both changed over time and grew in different directions. I asked him a number of times to work with me, and he didn't. So I detached and eventually walked out. 

Anyone that thinks that relationships or marriage take work is an imbecile in my honest opinion. 

Kria if I had to peg your age, I'd say mid-20's based on your question and responses.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

Philat said:


> He must be as dumb as the characters he plays. Probably 95 percent of marriages fall in between the la-di-da "somehow" it's working and the complete incompatibility extremes he's talking about. Of course marriage is work, in the sense that it requires maintenance. Check out the Coping With Infidelity forum for some stories about people who didn't work at it.


:iagree:

Marriage does take work. But the work it takes is not the same as drudgery or busy work. I bet Hambone does a lot of things to keep in touch with his wife and to keep his marriage fresh and enjoyable. I call that work but he doesn't. It's pronably something he enjoys so to him it may not be work. Time and effort are put into successful marriages nevertheless.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Marriage takes effort. Kudos to those who sailed thru years of marriage and all of it was pure bliss. For most of us, it takes effort to grow in our marriages. It's not that people change a whole lot that causes marriages to crumble, it's the distance that develops due to external life events. Children can cause parents to do stupid things like sacrifice time with each other in order to fit in one more activity for a kid. Over time, that mentality accumulates more and more distance between parents to where they turn into care givers instead of remaining as husband and wife. The effort comes when you find ways to prioritize your spouse over everything else. Easier said than done for most of us.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

hambone said:


> Work implies effort in my book.. As in, an activity that makes you tired. I have never gotten tired of my wife.


Hambone, I admire what you have. And I say that with complete sincerity.

However, ever since Caine smote Abel, people have tended to be contentious. Siblings. Parents. Spouses. Friends. And any other combination you may wish to consider.

I have several friends in long-term, what I consider successful marriages. They are not without some differences. They are certainly not without a lot of effort.

Working out hard makes me tired. But it's a good tired. It's the satisfaction knowing that my hard work has strengthened my body.

Tired is not a bad thing if the results are good.

JMO.


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## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

meson said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Marriage does take work. But the work it takes is not the same as drudgery or busy work. I bet Hambone does a lot of things to keep in touch with his wife and to keep his marriage fresh and enjoyable. I call that work but he doesn't. It's pronably something he enjoys so to him it may not be work. Time and effort are put into successful marriages nevertheless.


No I don't. 

I just rock along... being myself. I am happily married and it is effortless. It really is.

I don't expend any energy thinking about maintaining or enriching my marriage. 

I don't do anything out of the ordinary. I am married to my vey best friend.


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## Blank (Apr 15, 2012)

frusdil said:


> I think a marriage needs to be regularly tended to and nurtured, like a garden, as opposed to "work".


This !

And love (or heart) plays more role here than brains.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

hambone said:


> No I don't.
> 
> I just rock along... being myself. I am happily married and it is effortless. It really is.
> 
> ...


Somehow I bet if we asked Mrs. Hambone she would have a list of the great things you do to keep you marriage strong. If its effortless and unconscious to you, that's great. But that's what a lot of superstars say about their field of excellence. 

But for most of us it does take effort and it's rewarding and fun.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

My pragmatic take on this: "workless" marriages may exist but most people are never going to be lucky enough to find a person that they can have that kind of marriage with. In fact, most people may simply not BE the kind of people that can be in a work-free marriage.


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## Kria (Aug 4, 2013)

Pepper123 said:


> Kria if I had to peg your age, I'd say mid-20's based on your question and responses.


I didn't ask for your opinion about me. That's not what this thread is about. People of different ages have agreed with my statements. You don't know me and I don't know you. I didn't make any assumptions about you so don't make any about me.

Also, you contradicted yourself about working on marriages and there's no need to call people imbeciles. You and the person you agreed with need to learn to disagree with people without trying to put people down.



Pepper123 said:


> I agree with Philat...
> 
> When I married my exH we were the best of friends. We both changed over time and grew in different directions. I asked him a number of times to work with me, and he didn't. So I detached and eventually walked out.
> 
> Anyone that thinks that relationships or marriage take work is an imbecile in my honest opinion.


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## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

meson said:


> Somehow I bet if we asked Mrs. Hambone she would have a list of the great things you do to keep you marriage strong. If its effortless and unconscious to you, that's great. But that's what a lot of superstars say about their field of excellence.
> 
> But for most of us it does take effort and it's rewarding and fun.


OK. I asked Mrs. Hambone what I do that she appreciates..

She says I keep her happy in the bedroom, and I don't ***** and grip... about anything, including her spending money. (That's because she is a wise shopper... she not a big spender... she's never brought anything home that peeved me off.. as in I thought she was wasting money)

She says I take her on lots of trips (we've been to every state except Minnesota and Alaska.) 

And that we have the same value system (Like I said, same view on money, religion, politics. etc etc. etc.)

I have never made her work.. (even got her a maid when the kids were little....)

She says that she enjoys taking care of people. (She does an excellent job of taking care of me and the kids... sometimes I wish she'd put herself a little higher on the totem pole... and I"ve told her that).

I tell her how much I love her frequently... way more than once a day.

She says she loves the fact that I don't look at her flaws. (Well, when you are in love... you don't notice their flaws...)

I"m telling you... my first marriage was hell. This one has been heaven and I attribute it to the fact that after the 1st marriage.. I had NO INTENTION of ever marrying again... I was dating around.. a lot... If I had started dating steady.. the first girl I half way liked... I'd never had met her. I kept rolling along and happened to bump into Mrs. Perfect.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Kria said:


> I'll compare a relationship or marriage in this case to a car with cruise control. You should be able to just coast sometimes in a relationship without always having to keep your foot on the gas in order to move ahead.


Are you even married? I don't understand why people who obviously have no idea what they're talking about bother to opine on these matters.


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## Kria (Aug 4, 2013)

John Lee said:


> Are you even married? I don't understand why people who obviously have no idea what they're talking about bother to opine on these matters.


And who the heck are you?! Don't come for me and I won't come for you. I don't know your details and you don't know mine.


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## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

John Lee said:


> My pragmatic take on this: "workless" marriages may exist but most people are never going to be lucky enough to find a person that they can have that kind of marriage with. In fact, most people may simply not BE the kind of people that can be in a work-free marriage..


I think you're right.

The key for us is agree on so much that we just don't have a lot of friction in the first place.

BUT, when we do have a decision to make... we focus on the issue. We don't play tit for tat... we don't get into power struggles. We're not keeping score... Neither of us has ever said, "We did it YOUR way last time..." That's because our choice was based on what we felt like was the best choice.

We like each other. We don't embarrass each other. We never make each other look bad in public.. We have too much respect for each other to ever do that.

For example... when we go to a wedding and see the bride and groom smear the cake into each others face. In our book.. that's a very bad sign... it's a sign of disrespect.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

How much "work" do you do with a best friend? A sibling you adore? 

That's how much work a great relationship takes, which means... very little.


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

All anyone can do here is discuss what "work" means. Argument resolution, as an example, is work. It takes effort to resolve and learn from. That doesn't negate the benefits as a result. Exercise is also work, enjoyable (to me) and provides benefit. Running is easy for me, and I love it... but it is still work (mentally and physically) To others it is akin to torture. It's all semantics.... work vs. Effort


That said i am gracefully bowing out of this one since an unnamed mid 20 year old feels a need to be so argumentative towards anyone with an opinion that varies from her own.


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## Kria (Aug 4, 2013)

KathyBatesel said:


> How much "work" do you do with a best friend? A sibling you adore?
> 
> That's how much work a great relationship takes, which means... very little.


Very well said because your spouse should be your closest family and best friend.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Pepper, just try to understand what she is saying and respond with empathy. If we are older and more experienced, we should be able to do that, right?


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Maintaining a friendship is work in that we work at it. However, it is also worthwhile in itself. 

I might go to my job just because they pay me or stay married out of duty and call it work. However, helping loved ones is a joy and giving the effot is also a joy.


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## Jakobi Greenleaf (Sep 19, 2012)

*Re: Re: Marriage is Work?*



Pepper123 said:


> That said i am gracefully bowing out of this one since an unnamed mid 20 year old feels a need to be so argumentative towards anyone with an opinion that varies from her own.


For what it's worth, I'm 32, I've been married for more than ten years, and I agree with Kira on the car analogy. There have been highs and lows in my marriage. Some things have been my fault. Some have been hers. Some have come from outside the marriage all together. It hasn't always been easy. It hasn't always been fun. But it has always been worth it. And in my opinion, that is all that matters.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> *Hambone said*: *When you love your spouse... you want to please them.. It is NOT work... you are considerate and it all comes so easy.
> 
> And, when you marry someone who you are totally compatible with.. there isn't a lot of conflict. There is no conflict to resolve in the first place.
> 
> ...


 I very much relate to the posts of Hambone....and well.. what Sylvester said about his marriage... 

Maybe he had other relationships where he wasn't compatible & he felt like walking on eggshells or he couldn't fully be himself.. I wouldn't enjoy that either.. 

But in the same breath.. I mean bringing our BEST SELVES to the table... not a woman or man who has little self awareness, jumps to blame others without looking at their own hand...if that is going on, marriage could never be a JOY... none of us are perfect and we do mess up... are we humble after the fact .....going to our spouse, apologizing from the heart...or do we brood.. wait for them to CAVE..... do we seek to meet each other half way when we disagree... 

Unlike Hambone & wife.. ..however....me & the husband does fight now & then... pretty much thanks to yours truly.... (never said I was perfect)... but they are short in duration (we never let the sun go down on our anger)... we always learn something from it...(he just says I want "Laid", my sex drive was higher for a time & I would get Pi$$y about it.. this is true....or I wanted more aggression out of him or to look in my "spice Jar"... so we've had our moments... 

I suppose HE might call that " a little WORK"...but he's always told me he'd happily take the good with the bad. 

At least he has a great attitude about it.. .some of our funniest moments have been during a fight... so I can't say I regret any of them... We always learn some important truth -that we carry with is.... we dig deep to understand each other...always...then laugh about it afterwards...

On the compatibility front... we have so much in common, it's probably not even normal... 

1. Our beliefs are pretty much the same (he could care less -while I enjoy learning though)...
2. both Homebodies 
3. both Savers (we've never fought over money..& equally despise debt)
4. both could care less about sports.... 
5. both love watching movies together..... he even watches Chick Flicks with me ...God love 'im! 
6. Both very safety conscious... 
7. Both love the country.... 
8. both Romantic...mushy, sensitive, expressing this to each other 
9. we're both Touchy Feely - both feel sexual pleasure IS the "highlight of the day". 
10. both love to spend time together....it's never "too much" or "I need my space"..
11. both very open with each other/ feel Transparency rocks!...
12. both Traditionally minded....wanted kids/ family
13. we're both sorta Toilet humored, straight shooters.. just saying it like it IS...a little crude, a little sarcasm... we know how to take each other and we like it...
14. He's always wanted to make me happy...and I want to give this back.. I love to please him... 

I think he is a little more of a Democrat over me -I tend to be more Independent minded...(but for us both, depends on the issue, we agree on most of those too).. but really...these things all add up to .."getting along pretty harmoniously"..... 



> *Kria said*: *Very well said because your spouse should be your closest family and best friend*.


 I've always felt he was my best friend since our teens.... I can take anything / everything to this man.... and he does the same... This part of our relationship meant so much to me....when searching for our wedding invitations...when I came to this... the search was over..


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## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

MissFroggie said:


> Does anyone else find it ironic that the majority of people shouting that marriage is 'hard work' are also the ones throwing personal insults, making assumptions and deviating from the original post (which was clearly asking opinions on a quote)?
> 
> I imagine being married to someone who refuses to 'discuss' and insists they are definitely right and know best _is_ hard work. The personal insults would make it hard work and changes a simple discussion into a hurtful argument. Deviating from the subject matter and manipulating the other person with confusion or contradictions in order to 'win' is hard work to deal with. I've had 'discussions' like this before and they are hard work, draining and serve no purpose as a true resolution can not be found and the only way to end the _attack_ is to back down...or walk out.
> 
> ...


I see the same thing. Some people are more focused on winning the argument than reaching the best choice...

That's what a power struggle is. You'd rather win the argument.. than actually reach the best solution. 

Being in charge is the most important thing.

My wife and I do not do that.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

hambone said:


> *For example... when we go to a wedding and see the bride and groom smear the cake into each others face. In our book.. that's a very bad sign... it's a sign of disrespect.*


Awe come on now Hambone, this isn't always true, at our wedding they were all hooping & hollering for husband to give it to me good..in my face.. .his little brother was the loudest ... and he did *A LITTLE*.. I did have to go clean up....(I didn't do it to him though)....I didn't mind! It's the spirit of the moment... I've never been the type to get all bent out of shape over something spilled on my dress or a broken nail though. 

The Dj dared him to take my garter off with his teeth... he couldn't live that one down --when the whole place was clapping for him to go for it.. Loved our reception. 

He got me with the cake, couldn't ask for a more respectful man.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I agree with SA about the arguing. I certainly don't keep anything inside. Dh hears it all. I think he actually appreciates it.

He told me once it's easy to live with me, because he always knows what I am thinking and feeling.

And another thing: Dh never leaves the room when I am screaming at him. He is not scared of me, not in any way. And he takes nothing personally.

I didn't even realize, and dh didn't either, that some men cannot stay in the room when their women are yelling. We were both shocked to learn that.

I think arguing is good, when it is based on each one just getting everything off their chest and out on the table where it can be looked at and studied and used to make the marriage even better.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

My first marriage was mostly work, and very little reward. This marriage requires almost no effort, and is tremendously rewarding.

What's the difference? There are several things, I think. This time, we are very compatible in our values, attitudes, goals, interests, mutual respect and sincere desire to increase each other's happiness and well-being, and complete lack of selfishness. Love has not faded, nor has lust. Of course we have some misunderstandings and rare arguments, but we always assume there was a miscommunication and not malice or selfishness, so we soon take a step back and figure out where the misunderstanding occured. That's where the only real work comes in - the rest of the time the relationship is seemingly effortless. Yes, there is effort because we do things for each other constantly, but we are inspired to do this, and_ it does not feel like work - it feels like love_.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Okay, Married but Happy. Then where does the Open Marriage part come in? That's one I can't wrap my head around.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

jld said:


> Okay, Married but Happy. Then where does the Open Marriage part come in? That's one I can't wrap my head around.


It's not really relevant to this discussion, but I'll respond. We have always had the mindset (since our early teens) that we are polyamorous by nature, are capable of loving more than one person, have few feelings of jealousy, and don't think monogamy is right for everyone. Humans are naturally promiscuous, in our view (which seems validated by the high levels of non-monogamy evidenced by cheating). We didn't vow monogamy, or marriage for life - unless we decide it suits us both. The former does not (at least currently, though we've had significant stretches where we've acted monogamously), but the latter seems very likely. Anyway, it works for us and has for 14 years.


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## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Awe come on now Hambone, this isn't always true, at our wedding they were all hooping & hollering for husband to give it to me good..in my face.. .his little brother was the loudest ... and he did *A LITTLE*.. I did have to go clean up....(I didn't do it to him though)....I didn't mind! It's the spirit of the moment... I've never been the type to get all bent out of shape over something spilled on my dress or a broken nail though.
> 
> The Dj dared him to take my garter off with his teeth... he couldn't live that one down --when the whole place was clapping for him to go for it.. Loved our reception.
> 
> He got me with the cake, couldn't ask for a more respectful man.


We'll chalk your husband's actions up to simply youthful indiscretions!


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

Pepper123 said:


> All anyone can do here is discuss what "work" means. Argument resolution, as an example, is work. It takes effort to resolve and learn from. That doesn't negate the benefits as a result. Exercise is also work, enjoyable (to me) and provides benefit. Running is easy for me, and I love it... but it is still work (mentally and physically) To others it is akin to torture. It's all semantics.... work vs. Effort


For me it was the crux to understanding Hambone's position. It's clear that he is not advocating doing nothing leads to a successful marriage. I include more things in my usage of work than he does but that doesn't matter as you point out. The point is that now I can translate what he said and agree despite our difference of word usage.

My wife and I approach conflict resolution just like this all the time. We try to restate and bring in real examples that help to remove the ambiguity. In Hombone's view it's probably no work at all. In my verbiage it's very easy work. Because of this we too have very little friction anymore because most of our "disagreements" are really mistranslations of the spoken intent.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

I agree with Sly.

I already have a job (work).

My marriage is not work.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I guess you can choose not to view what you do in your marriage 'work' by whatever definition you decide to use. Or you can choose not to 'work' at your marriage. I like to look for ways to constantly improve my marriage, and I consider that to be 'work'. You may not. Or you may not think it needs improving. Which I think is naive. Anyone who thinks they have a perfect marriage is either newlywed or delusional.


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## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

meson said:


> For me it was the crux to understanding Hambone's position. It's clear that he is not advocating doing nothing leads to a successful marriage. I include more things in my usage of work than he does but that doesn't matter as you point out. The point is that now I can translate what he said and agree despite our difference of word usage.
> 
> My wife and I approach conflict resolution just like this all the time. We try to restate and bring in real examples that help to remove the ambiguity. In Hombone's view it's probably no work at all. In my verbiage it's very easy work. Because of this we too have very little friction anymore because most of our "disagreements" are really mistranslations of the spoken intent.


First, as I've said before, we don't have a lot of conflict... 

If we do have a decision to make... we kick the situation back and forth... bring up various choices... discuss the pros and cons. 

It just never get's down to her choice VS my choise... It's choice A vs choice B. The winner is the best choice... It's not her plan VS my plan it's plan A vs Plan B. No on is keeping score... we don't play tit for tat.

The way we solve problems doesn't feel like conflict... it doesn't feel like work... there are no winners and losers.

I guess what I'm trying to dispute is those folks that say marriage is hard work. It's not for me. Our situation might be the exception to the rule but my marriage has not been work. 

Now, my first marriage... yeah, it was work.. and it was miserable.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Kria said:


> And who the heck are you?! Don't come for me and I won't come for you. I don't know your details and you don't know mine.


Since you're making a lot of know-it-all statements about how marriage should or is supposed to work, I think people have every right to ask where you're coming from and what you're basing your opinions on. But I don't need you to tell me, because I can tell from your posts that you're not married and are very young.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

I think there is a difference between feeling love/attraction for your spouse because of who he/she is vs juggling all of the responsibilities that come your way when you are 1) working, 2) married and 3) raising a family.

If you have to work at trying to not to feel loathing for your spouse just by looking at him/her, that's one issue. However, it's a different situation entirely if you are feeling a loss of attraction, think your marriage is veering off course and/or wake up one day and wonder who your spouse became. 

Not all work is a soul crushing endeavor. In many cases, work is an endeavor based on love, commitment and maturity. Besides, I think most people are saying the same thing but are getting tripped up by the labels. What some people are calling commitment, others are referring to it as work. 

I would say this is an example of "working" at building a good marriage: You had a long, grueling day at work. All you want to do is go home, eat and then veg out in front of the TV or computer until bed time. Your wife is a SAHM and the LAST thing she wants to do today is stay cooped up in the house this evening after spending 9 - 10 hours with a bunch of screaming kids. She wants to go out to dinner and shopping. As a husband, you decide you want to go with her to spend quality time together so you go out with your wife and watch her try on some clothes. Some may call this "work", others may call it "an easy decision since you are in love". No matter what you call it, the husband going out with his wife - despite wanting to just relax at home - is the good call to make here because he loves his wife.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

^^^ great post


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

The thing with relationships is that they don't exist in a vacuum. You have your relationship, but the relationship is effected by other things in your lives. Being stressed at work effects your relationship, having children effects your relationship, having a disabled child really effects your relationship. 

So, you can be super compatible with your partner and still have a crappy relationship if other things in your life drag you down. A quick glance at threads here will vouch for that, over and over. 

In other words, how much "work" a relationship is at any current time might not have anything at all to do with the compatibility, directly. Maybe you just need to get out more, get some fresh air and exercise. Maybe the husband loses his job and it looks like you might lose your house. These things can play havoc with a relationship and to say that at that point it's too much work is really missing the point. It's not the relationship that needs work, it's just that life needs to be weathered. 

Some people have to weather more than others.


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## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I think there is a difference between feeling love/attraction for your spouse because of who he/she is vs juggling all of the responsibilities that come your way when you are 1) working, 2) married and 3) raising a family.
> 
> If you have to work at trying to not to feel loathing for your spouse just by looking at him/her, that's one issue. However, it's a different situation entirely if you are feeling a loss of attraction, think your marriage is veering off course and/or wake up one day and wonder who your spouse became.
> 
> ...


I understand and the way I handled it was, I got my wife a maid who came in for 4 hours 3 times a week when the kids were real little. She would do light house keeping and watch the kids. 

When the kids got a little older, they went to mother's day out a couple of times a week.


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

I don't feel we should be debating Sly's beliefs since he's currently on wife #3.

With over two decades of my first and only marriage under the belt, I'd say that there is some work involved as you change over time due to life experiences, kids, etc. There is compromise involved as you are a partnership (corporation/board of directors) of two people. But you do ultimately have to let each other be themselves.


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## Kria (Aug 4, 2013)

yeah_right said:


> I don't feel we should be debating Sly's beliefs since he's currently on wife #3.
> 
> With over two decades of my first and only marriage under the belt, I'd say that there is some work involved as you change over time due to life experiences, kids, etc. There is compromise involved as you are a partnership (corporation/board of directors) of two people. But you do ultimately have to let each other be themselves.


Sly being on his third and longest marriage by the way does not negate his knowledge on the subject. He obviously has learned some things along the way.

You being on your one and only long marriage does not make your experience better than others. There are plenty of people who have only had one long term marriage that were miserable because they felt they had to stick it out at all costs.


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## Kria (Aug 4, 2013)

John Lee said:


> Since you're making a lot of know-it-all statements about how marriage should or is supposed to work, I think people have every right to ask where you're coming from and what you're basing your opinions on. But I don't need you to tell me, because I can tell from your posts that you're not married and are very young.


In your few very short responses to me on this thread you did not kindly ask me if I am married or what my age is. You made assumptions and put down my opinions so why would I want to answer you. You come off attacking, rude and aggressive. Also, me posing a general question on this forum does not mean that I have to give details about my life just like no one else has to. I never demanded anyone tell me anything on here. People have shared freely because they chose to.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

hambone said:


> I understand and the way I handled it was, I got my wife a maid who came in for 4 hours 3 times a week when the kids were real little. She would do light house keeping and watch the kids.
> 
> When the kids got a little older, they went to mother's day out a couple of times a week.


Awesome. So what do you recommend for those of us who can't afford a maid?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Awesome. So what do you recommend for those of us who can't afford a maid?


Lower your standards, and help out.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

You definitely don't have to work as hard at marriage when you can pay people to do all the hard stuff for you.


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## Kria (Aug 4, 2013)

John Lee said:


> You definitely don't have to work as hard at marriage when you can pay people to do all the hard stuff for you.


Seems like someone is envious. That explains your demeanor.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Kria said:


> Seems like someone is envious. That explains your demeanor.


Actually, I pay someone to clean my house now. Doing pretty well financially. So no, not envious, I just know what it's like both when you can't afford it and when you can.


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## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Awesome. So what do you recommend for those of us who can't afford a maid?


Life is filled with choices.

People spend their time and money doing what is important to them..

When something is important to them.. they find a way to get it done. When it's not... they make excuses.

You could either work extra or watch the kids yourself and do some house work so your spouse can have time off.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

hambone said:


> Life is filled with choices.
> 
> People spend their time and money doing what is important to them..
> 
> ...


Right, which would be an example of "work." So what is your point?


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

Kria said:


> Sly being on his third and longest marriage by the way does not negate his knowledge on the subject. He obviously has learned some things along the way. Fair enough.
> 
> You being on your one and only long marriage does not make your experience better than others. Never said it did. We've had our fair share of issues along the way, as all married folks do. There are plenty of people who have only had one long term marriage that were miserable because they felt they had to stick it out at all costs.


I was just posting opinions as requested in the post. I'm sorry if you feel I've offended you in some way. This entire thread seems to be turning into an argument so I'll just step out and let the rest of you debate. Enjoy!


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

hambone said:


> Life is filled with choices.
> 
> People spend their time and money doing what is important to them..
> 
> ...


Bingo. To have a good marriage, you need to put some sort of work/effort into it. That was the point all along. People keyed in on whether you still had that feeling for your spouse or not. That is definitely important and you need to have that attraction to your spouse. At the same time though, if you want to MAINTAIN that level of attraction, then you need to put in your share of effort to make sure that the things within your life are taken care of as a team. That involves rolling up your sleeves and pitching in. 

Like I said earlier, we're talking about the same things. We're just calling it by different names.


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## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

John Lee said:


> Right, which would be an example of "work." So what is your point?



I guess it would be "work" if you didn't love your wife.


I gave my wife time off because I could see that the children were grinding her down. She was exhausted all the time.

Besides, along about that that time.. I was averaging about 50 hours a week... Not by choice, my job required it. The company I was working for was young and growing... A very exciting time. We were all young, everybody was having kids..


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

hambone said:


> I guess it would be "work" if you didn't love your wife.



You make it sound like working on your relationship so negative, like you don't love them as much if you do.

You never use "work" for anything not negative?
I'm going to go _work _on my garden, I did some _work _on my art project, etc? (or even just _work _on your tan  ) You do things for your wife, she does things for you. What's so bad about that?


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

hambone said:


> I guess it would be "work" if you didn't love your wife.
> 
> 
> I gave my wife time off because I could see that the children were grinding her down. She was exhausted all the time.
> ...


Ok, and I always work over 50 hours a week, and I always still do things to give my wife a break. That doesn't mean I always enjoy it.


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## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> You make it sound like working on your relationship so negative, like you don't love them as much if you do.
> 
> You never use "work" for anything not negative?
> I'm going to go _work _on my garden, I did some _work _on my art project, etc? (or even just _work _on your tan  ) You do things for your wife, she does things for you. What's so bad about that?


I don't mean to make it sound negative. I'm just saying that my second marriage has been effortless as a counter point to those that say you HAVE to work at your marriage...

I agree with Sly... When you've got a great marriage.. you don't have to work at it..


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

hambone said:


> I don't mean to make it sound negative. I'm just saying that my second marriage has been effortless as a counter point to those that say you HAVE to work at your marriage...
> 
> I agree with Sly... When you've got a great marriage.. you don't have to work at it..


I think he's right... and he's wrong. The comment was made that you should have to be walking on eggshells, and that is true. In that respect, you shouldn't HAVE to work to make the relationship...well, WORK. But, it doesn't mean you shouldn't put forth some sort of effort, be it hiring a maid to give your wife time off, to her self...or planning a trip to give her a much needed vacation, or to plan a nice evening out, just the two of you. It all requires effort. Effort is work.. but it is GOOD work. It isn't the type that keeps you walking on eggshells. It's the type that shows you appreciate her, and that you want to SHOW her that you do. 

The point others were trying to make is that it does take some effort, even if it isn't noticeable, to maintain a relationship. Using the car analogy Kria brought up...sure, you can "coast" on cruise for awhile. However, at some point, cruise needs to be turned off and you have to actively drive. Cruise is effortless, but you can't maintain at that speed forever. Sooner or later, you will have to change speed. Sooner or later, you need to take the car in for maintenance checks. All work, but still, something that is necessary... effort you need to put forth to keep going. Sure, it doesn't seem like it's work, to you, anyway. It's not much effort on your part, and you do it because you see it needs to be done. But, if the car had feelings, it would appreciate the effort you put forth to maintain it, knowing you do it because you care.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Not all work is a soul crushing endeavor. In many cases, work is an endeavor based on love, commitment and maturity. Besides, I think most people are saying the same thing but are getting tripped up by the labels. *What some people are calling commitment, others are referring to it as work*.


 This is probably very true... but can I add... the attitudes we carry , we present to each other...in this giving back... it's huge...when you FEEL GOOD to do..to help, to contribute, when it makes YOU feel good to love like that, cause it feels our cup too...knowing the other is happy... it just doesn't feel like 'work"... This is where I am coming from.

I always enjoy your posts Plan 9 from OS.. always so insightful..



> I would say this is an example of "working" at building a good marriage: *You had a long, grueling day at work. All you want to do is go home, eat and then veg out in front of the TV or computer until bed time. Your wife is a SAHM and the LAST thing she wants to do today is stay cooped up in the house this evening after spending 9 - 10 hours with a bunch of screaming kids. She wants to go out to dinner and shopping. As a husband, you decide you want to go with her to spend quality time together so you go out with your wife and watch her try on some clothes. Some may call this "work", others may call it "an easy decision since you are in love". No matter what you call it, the husband going out with his wife - despite wanting to just relax at home - is the good call to make here because he loves his wife*.


 Great example of putting each other 1st..:smthumbup:...I'll give 2 from our marriage... these are work related /being tired..

A few yrs back I was on a sex high....couldn't get enough, had to calm my jets (I wasn't easy for me)...to not overburden him.... one day he worked 16 hrs straight.... I surely wasn't going to bother him knowing he had to get up in 6 hrs for work again!....but ya know...he came on to me that night.. I felt so overwhelmingly loved, I think I even cried... ...cause I know he was tired but he was thinking of me... even when I told him "honey, you need to sleep"... 

In the past couple days...someone slashed one of our truck tires-- we were parking on top of the hill cause our driveway turns to ice - (a big one 750ft long), husband had to work a double the next day, no time to get to it... ....he has been so tired.... but he insisted on driving me to work yesterday when he got home -cause the roads were bad...(doing for me)....

When he was at work, I worked on that driveway.. shoveling , salting.. so he wouldn't have to do this later..or the next day (today) on his off day..... I wanted to do anything/ everything I could do -on my end- to make it *easier* on him...

I insisted he sleep in this morning - I pampered him all day.... I want him to feel good... you just help each other , you want the best for each other. ..you pick up when the other is down... It's a labor of JOY really.. that's how I see it...


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## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> I think he's right... and he's wrong. The comment was made that you should have to be walking on eggshells, and that is true. In that respect, you shouldn't HAVE to work to make the relationship...well, WORK. But, it doesn't mean you shouldn't put forth some sort of effort, be it hiring a maid to give your wife time off, to her self...or planning a trip to give her a much needed vacation, or to plan a nice evening out, just the two of you. It all requires effort. Effort is work.. but it is GOOD work. It isn't the type that keeps you walking on eggshells. It's the type that shows you appreciate her, and that you want to SHOW her that you do.
> 
> The point others were trying to make is that it does take some effort, even if it isn't noticeable, to maintain a relationship. Using the car analogy Kria brought up...sure, you can "coast" on cruise for awhile. However, at some point, cruise needs to be turned off and you have to actively drive. Cruise is effortless, but you can't maintain at that speed forever. Sooner or later, you will have to change speed. Sooner or later, you need to take the car in for maintenance checks. All work, but still, something that is necessary... effort you need to put forth to keep going. Sure, it doesn't seem like it's work, to you, anyway. It's not much effort on your part, and you do it because you see it needs to be done. But, if the car had feelings, it would appreciate the effort you put forth to maintain it, knowing you do it because you care.


I find the emotional aspect of a bad marriage much more taxing and tiring than the taking them out for a nice meal, cleaning the house, etc. etc. physical work of a marriage.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

hambone said:


> I find the emotional aspect of a bad marriage much more taxing and tiring than the taking them out for a nice meal, cleaning the house, etc. etc. physical work of a marriage.


Totally agree with you! And, I'd be surprised if most, if not all, of the people who have disagreed with you earlier on would agree with you as well. But, even if it doesn't _seem_ like work, it is a _type_ of work... but it is _enjoyable_ work. Enjoyable because you are doing for someone you KNOW appreciates your efforts, and you ENJOY doing for them. That's the difference. The motivation, and how it is received.


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## Midlifeturmoil (Dec 30, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I think there is a difference between feeling love/attraction for your spouse because of who he/she is vs juggling all of the responsibilities that come your way when you are 1) working, 2) married and 3) raising a family.
> 
> If you have to work at trying to not to feel loathing for your spouse just by looking at him/her, that's one issue. However, it's a different situation entirely if you are feeling a loss of attraction, think your marriage is veering off course and/or wake up one day and wonder who your spouse became.
> 
> Not all work is a soul crushing endeavor. In many cases, work is an endeavor based on love, commitment and maturity. Besides, I think most people are saying the same thing but are getting tripped up by the labels. What some people are calling commitment, others are referring to it as work.


Agree with this totally. Right now, I am "working" at falling in love with my wife. And she is "working" at helping me do that. She is a wonderful lady in so many ways. I so admire and envy the relationships described here by Hambone, Sly and many others. 

Maybe the context here though is that a maintenance level of work is required for some couples (not all) so that a relationship doesn't gradually erode over time. I honestly don't think mine started at anywhere near the place that Hambone describes in his second marriage, and so that is a big factor in my case I am sure. 

Maybe it can be viewed as a graph with a response line or trend line. The line has an intercept on the Y axis, which represents the connection or degree of love and affection/adoration at the beginning of the marriage. The line itself represents the movement of the...I'll just say connection over time and of course the X axis represents time. Some relationships started at the top of the graph and has just stayed there, requiring little to no effort or work. Wow! It is interesting to read on here of so many marriages that start out with a very high intercept and just plunge to near the bottom of the graph within the first year or two. The lower the Y intercept, the less room the line has to fall. But then, the more room there is for improvement too and I have read a few success stories like that on here as well.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

My marriage is my favorite hobby. It takes my focus,drive,and care in order for me to be truly proficient and happy at any great hobby worth sticking with.

Work,effort,maintenance,nurturing,whatever...if your marriage is a happy one then you're doing something right regardless of what vocab word you assign to it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kria (Aug 4, 2013)

Midlifeturmoil said:


> It is interesting to read on here of so many marriages that start out with a very high intercept and just plunge to near the bottom of the graph within the first year or two.


I would say that's because a lot of people rush into getting married, aren't ready for marriage, marry the wrong person or marry for the wrong reasons.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

SA, thanks for the kind words and great examples from your marriage. I think it helps demonstrate how marriage does take effort AND how the effort is easy when you choose to show love for your spouse. See, it can be both.


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## tryingtobebetter (Aug 6, 2012)

Kria said:


> What does working at a marriage mean to you then? Do you believe that if a couple gets along well and are at ease with each other then less work would be required because the two people would be more in sync and see eye to eye on most matters?


OP

My apologies for not getting back sooner on your question. What a lot of comments the thread has generated!

What does working at a marriage mean for me? I think two related but fairly distinct ideas.

When a marriage is 'in trouble', then couples often seek counselling. To me that is 'working' on the marriage. If it is to be successful, then some change will probably be required, probably from both parties to the marriage, in terms at the very least of how they behave toward each other, but perhaps more profoundly in how they think of each other.

I do not think that this requires complete personality changes, which would be unrealistic to look for, but some modifications. I also think it unlikely that 'walking on eggshells' is likely to produce good results as it implies to me a lack of honesty - and love - which is never going to be the basis for a truly good marriage.

There is another sense in which I understand the term to be commonly used. That is when a couple who are in a perfectly 'ok' marriage, decide that it could improve. In my own case I decided to try to be a better husband. One of the things I did was read 'The Five Love Languages' as a result of which I understood my wife better and learned to show my love to her in a way that really touches her heart.

That is why I said I did not think SS understood how people commonly use the term 'work at' in the context of marriage, as it seemed to me to he was implying either that if you get to the point where you think you might see a marriage counsellor (or seek advice on TAM!), you should not bother but just head straight to the divorce court, or that if people choose to 'work at' their marriage, that they are going to unnecessary efforts when the relationship should be perfect without effort. And, by implication, if it is not perfect, they too should divorce?!

Quite a lot of my friends 'work at' their golf game to try to perfect it! And my daughter 'works at' her singing for much the same reason!

I agree absolutely that the more naturally compatible a couple are the less 'work' will be required. I suspect that the couples that are so very compatible that no work is required (e.g. know each other's love language without having to think about it) are very much in the minority.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

I think one cannot generalise about this as some couples who are really compatible sail plainly through the marriage. However, other couples may have been compatible in their 20s but in their 40's grown into very different people, no person ever stays the same. Work, further education, bringing up kids, life's adventures all change a person. Further, unless a person is brain dead there are bound to be times when they do not always see eye to eye with even their closest hence the differences, arguments, etc. Therefore most marriages will need some time of maintenance, one cannot expect the marriage to thrive without work. A bit like a car really.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Well, my DH and I are enough alike to not get into arguments much, but different enough to make life fairly interesting. Those differences can potentially lead to misunderstandings, and can also lead to assumptions about how they think to be incorrect. It can lead to needs being unmet.

Some people may be completely content with how they interact with their partner, maybe they never have needs unmet or misunderstandings or incorrect assumptions. This does not mean that another couple who has to delve into the workings of their partners mind, who has to make compromises, who has to sometimes say sorry, who has to read books to figure out the next step is in a relationship, isn't in a worthwhile relationship. Maybe some people have more problems to work out, or their partners do, before they can find their own utopia, and who's to say that a little work for them isn't worth it in the end.


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## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> Totally agree with you! And, I'd be surprised if most, if not all, of the people who have disagreed with you earlier on would agree with you as well. But, even if it doesn't _seem_ like work, it is a _type_ of work... but it is _enjoyable_ work. Enjoyable because you are doing for someone you KNOW appreciates your efforts, and you ENJOY doing for them. That's the difference. The motivation, and how it is received.


So, let me ask you... is making love to my wife work? sometimes, I get sweaty, huffing and puffing, tired etc. etc. etc.

I look forward to it... I am a lot happier when it happens... It's a rare day when we don't make love. 

Mowing the yard makes me tired and sweaty etc... but I hire someone else to do that for me.

I'd be very upset if the yardman was servicing my wife for me. Even if he threw that service in for free.

Being married to my wife has not been work. In fact, I'd say my life got a lot easier after I got married. Emotionally, I am a lot happier. We have a very open and honest relationship. We don't keep secrets. I share my burdens with my wife... I'm an open book. I have no fear of sharing things with her.

Emotionally, it's been a piece of cake. And, I don't look at anything i do with my wife as being a chore... as being work.

I retired at 45. We spend a LOT of time together. We spend that time in our den... with each other. 

Even when we have an issue... it's not work... We focus on the problem until we come up with a plan we are both comfortable with. We check our egos. 

Not once has my wife every embarrassed me in public. She covers for me. She might whisper in my ear... or pull me aside to tell me something but she has never made me look bad in public.

We celebrate our strengths and fell like we compliment each other. Between the two of us... we got all the bases covered. She thinks faster than I do... she has a much higher emotional quotient than I do... She handles the common ordinary things of life very well. She can read people... I can't. I, on the other hand, am better educated and more capable of high order thinking.

I love her so much..


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## trentetrois (Jul 2, 2013)

hambone said:


> When you love your spouse... you want to please them.. It is NOT work... you are considerate and it all comes so easy.
> 
> 
> And, when you marry someone who you are totally compatible with.. there isn't a lot of conflict. There is no conflict to resolve in the first place.
> ...


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## trentetrois (Jul 2, 2013)

For how long have you been married?


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## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

trentetrois said:


> For how long have you been married?


I'm assuming you're talking to me...


22+ years.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion, but I'll just share my experience in a nutshell.

I was married to my x wife for 18 years. We rarely disagreed and never had a "knock down drag out." I never felt like it was the least bit of work; as a man, I never felt the old ball and chain. Had it been up to my marriage to have created that joke, it never would have existed. We seemed to click and just got along. We had two kids and nothing seemed to change. 

We would often wallow in puzzlement as to why other people couldn't get along. 

Then, after 18 years, she said she was no longer happy and wanted a divorce. There was no cheating on my part or abuse. She just didn't feel like I loved her anymore and I was boring. 

Should I have been working when it didn't seem like I needed to? I don't know. I don't usually climb on the roof with shingles and nails if the roof seems already intact. 

Someone told me latter that if a person thinks their marriage isn't work, they are probably headed for trouble. Just my experience.


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## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

southbound said:


> I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion, but I'll just share my experience in a nutshell.
> 
> I was married to my x wife for 18 years. We rarely disagreed and never had a "knock down drag out." I never felt like it was the least bit of work; as a man, I never felt the old ball and chain. Had it been up to my marriage to have created that joke, it never would have existed. We seemed to click and just got along. We had two kids and nothing seemed to change.
> 
> ...


So, everything was hunky dory... right up until she walked out?


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

hambone said:


> So, everything was hunky dory... right up until she walked out?


I read what he posted as humble. He did not see the problem and frankly he is still uncertain as to where it was. It is very different to people who post everything is fine but my ex- is a *****.


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## MysticSoul (Mar 3, 2014)

Wow! This is a very complicated topic. 

The quote from Sly, tbh, rubs me the wrong way. I feel like his quote says, "If you're marriage isn't like mine. You're doing it wrong." 

My marriage isn't like anyone else's marriage. My marriage is my marriage, and for us it takes time, effort, and conscious decisions to do things for each other's benefit. For me, that is WORK! It's hard. It can be frustrating. It can be joyful. It can be magical. It could give me the greatest sense of pride. But it is work. 

Now, IDK if it's because we're both young. If it's because we're both growing, and learning, and maturing for that matter. But I have to make sure I remember things like: 
-Let it go if he doesn't text you back right away
-Don't assume he knows what's for dinner, plan it out
-Don't wake him up, no matter HOW much you want to spend that time to connect with him, right now he needs the sleep
-Got a bone to pick? Put it aside and schedule a family meeting
-Don't forget to hug and kiss DH before you leave and when you get home, regardless of how scatterbrained or rushed you are. 

Because if I don't WORK on our marriage, this silly little thing called Life crops up and before you know it, life is wedged between you and your spouse. It's WORK to hold back your own needs, and be selfless. I was not born to be selfless. It is not hard-coded into my personality or genes. 

Does that mean that my marriage isn't great? That my marriage isn't working? No. It just means that my marriage has it's own circumstances, needs, and demands, and that our definition of those things will vary from person to person, from marriage to marriage.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

hambone said:


> So, everything was hunky dory... right up until she walked out?


I sure thought it was. We hadn't started throwing things at each other or anything. I'm not going to pretend we were acting like newlyweds, but nothing major in my view, at least nothing that was divorce material.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

southbound said:


> I sure thought it was. We hadn't started throwing things at each other or anything. I'm not going to pretend we were acting like newlyweds, but nothing major in my view, at least nothing that was divorce material.


thats the difficult part of being a man. our women often say nothing about how they feel. they often think that we know what they feel by their subtle cues. 

unfortunately, we are not able to interpret their signals. 



i have made it a habit of sitting down with my wife once a week to find out what she likes about our relationship, and what she doesn't like. i also ask her about where she wants us to go. 

its important because im not a freaking mind reader. there is absolutely no way i can know what she is thinking or feeling unless she tells me. 

its part of the "work" in our marriage, but its led to an amazing relationship... i feel pretty confident that our relationship will only get stronger. i have already said that it cant get better three times....

each time i thought that it was the height of bliss, but she has proven me wrong, each time. if it weren't for vigilance, i doubt i would be here now. 

i literally crave her presence, her touch, her soul. 

i have never experienced this before... openness is what led me here. sometimes it hurt, sometimes i was not sure of myself, but...

... i can never go back.


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## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

southbound said:


> I sure thought it was. We hadn't started throwing things at each other or anything. I'm not going to pretend we were acting like newlyweds, but nothing major in my view, at least nothing that was divorce material.


Sounds like she made a very cold and calculated decision..

Like, once the kids were up of age... she was finished.

She got her ducks in a row and moved on... Is that a fair statement?

Has she remarried?


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## daveca (Jan 14, 2014)

southbound said:


> I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion, but I'll just share my experience in a nutshell.
> 
> I was married to my x wife for 18 years. We rarely disagreed and never had a "knock down drag out." I never felt like it was the least bit of work; as a man, I never felt the old ball and chain. Had it been up to my marriage to have created that joke, it never would have existed. We seemed to click and just got along. We had two kids and nothing seemed to change.
> 
> ...


It sounds like your wife had someone lined up. If the marriage was boring she could have done something to break the boredom. Why leave a relationship to be alone if one can do what they want while in the relationship? Except have another lover, of course. 

That's my take on it. 

As for working on a marriage it depends on ones definition of work. Two people can fix cars. One guy is at work and the other at home fixing his classic '55 Chevy. The latter guy doesn't consider it work. 

I don't consider what I do as work. I think relationships should flow easily even if people are different. Regarding my wife and I our differences include native language, religion, culture, education, income and a nine year age difference. She is younger and considerably more educated than I. We're in our 18th year. First marriage for her, second for me. 

We agree on the important things such as homeownership. We don't have children so that wasn't a concern. When voting time comes around sometimes we vote for the same person and sometimes we vote differently.

I think a big problem today is people look for a buddy or pal. I don't see marriage that way. Today, men and woman can do the same things but it was never like that in the past. Men and women usually had different interests, different likes and dislikes and that's OK. I want a lover, not a golf partner. HA!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

MysticSoul said:


> Now, IDK if it's because we're both young. If it's because we're both growing, and learning, and maturing for that matter. But I have to make sure I remember things like:
> -*Let it go if he doesn't text you back right away
> -Don't assume he knows what's for dinner, plan it out
> -Don't wake him up, no matter HOW much you want to spend that time to connect with him, right now he needs the sleep
> ...


 I think so much of this is just HOW someone defines the word *WORK* within marriage..... I so agree with your little list....the little things we do...it helps marriage flow and breathe...but I wouldn't really call those "WORK" personally... maybe I should but those things seem awfully small to me...like peas... and I guess my work ethic would not consider it work somehow.....

Work to me would be GRUELING... digging ditches... sweat pouring off of me..I was thirsty & hungry...but you keep going...you might start complaining it's hot out there... you're tired....when will it be finished...and I can have a BREAK !!...... 

Contrast that scenario with....we ENJOY the experience....maybe it's a beautiful day/ the sun is shining... the birds are singing...we're digging the ditch *together*....keeping each other company... we're laughing as we dig...he is thankful he has a wife who gets her hands dirty & I am happy to help him -so then we can spend more FREE time together ....we flirt with each other & have some snacks in bucket on hand/ water bottles filled .....we could walk away from that thinking..."OH that wasn't so bad..."... we can look at our labor...and ...and just be thankful we have each other.....

Alot of this is just ..."ATTITUDE" ... Our attitudes affect one another...it can be "catchy"... I will admit my husband has a sweeter demeanor over me... he has a way of putting me in a good mood....the man is always UP...this helps...

I personally love having someone in my life to dote on, to share things with... I would not enjoy being single... ...If the man wasn't Romantic in the ways I crave (not about flowers/ cards/ jewelry- but time & touch.. some mushy verbal - I eat that up!).....if he lacked these things..I'd pretty much want to throw him off the nearest cliff... Yeah not nice to say.. 

For example...if we had that in dating...then it went sour later on....dried up like a prune....I'd cause some ruckus about it!!! but ya know after a time, if it felt like pulling teeth, he didn't give a crap...you learn he doesn't care....then ENTERS "*WORK*" for me...because now it entails me putting down something I love & crave...I'd feel slighted, ignored...irritated...and resentment would start to GROW....and GROW... 

I'd want to UN-DO this and get back to where we were, sharing, expressing, laughing together emotionally - where it didn't feel like "*work*" (something grueling, waiting for it to pass)... but a JOY to be in each others presence...AGAIN...despite all the little things...taking care of kids, going to work, cooking, projects, paying bills..it's mundane but Idon't see it as "grueling"...

Just like Sex...one wants more than the other....putting oneself down here....but you do it for the marriage...and if you find yourself doing it OFTEN to where you are edgy, angry, feel neglected...ENTER WORK.....actually I would call this "*misery*" ---but anyway...

This is no good *>>*







...Just another perspective is all.. 



> *Does that mean that my marriage isn't great? That my marriage isn't working? No. It just means that my marriage has it's own circumstances, needs, and demands, and that our definition of those things will vary from person to person, from marriage to marriage*.


 Summed up very well MysticSoul! :smthumbup:


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## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I think so much of this is just HOW someone defines the word *WORK* within marriage..... I so agree with your little list....the little things we do...it helps marriage flow and breathe...but I wouldn't really call those "WORK" personally... maybe I should but those things seem awfully small to me...like peas... and I guess my work ethic would not consider it work somehow.....
> 
> Work to me would be GRUELING... digging ditches... sweat pouring off of me..I was thirsty & hungry...but you keep going...you might start complaining it's hot out there... you're tired....when will it be finished...and I can have a BREAK !!......
> 
> ...


Back when my wife and I were buying rental property and rehabbing it... We worked many a nights... side by side... until midnight.. night after night after night... Until we got that house to the point we could rent it. It was hard work BUT, as long as my wife was beside me... working just as hard as I was working... it wasn't so bad... We were working for our future.... And she's the one that is ALWAYS up... she can find the silver lining in any cloud..

Good times.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

As'laDain said:


> *thats the difficult part of being a man. our women often say nothing about how they feel. they often think that we know what they feel by their subtle cues.
> 
> unfortunately, we are not able to interpret their signals.*


In our marriage, this is backwards...he is more the subtle one... what has helped us, though I missed it in the past to some degree...is I am very interested in his opinion & his feelings..always inquiring...Thank God this doesn't bother him... he is happy to share!...



> *i have made it a habit of sitting down with my wife once a week to find out what she likes about our relationship, and what she doesn't like. i also ask her about where she wants us to go.
> 
> its important because im not a freaking mind reader. there is absolutely no way i can know what she is thinking or feeling unless she tells me*.


 You are very wise As'laDain !







...this is where a couple greatly benefits by understanding their spouses *temperament*...sometimes we need to be ever "watchful" and ask more questions, *seek to learn of each other*... so they have their slice of pie too. Often opposites attract ....so it is so important to understand these things...these differences & how we can work them.....it can be a great blessing..



> its part of the "work" in our marriage, but its led to an amazing relationship... i feel pretty confident that our relationship will only get stronger. i have already said that it cant get better three times....
> 
> *each time i thought that it was the height of bliss, but she has proven me wrong, each time. if it weren't for vigilance, i doubt i would be here now.*


 very profound point...things can look good on the outside...as many do NOT wear their







on their sleeves...they try to bury their hurt feelings, not wanting to show* vulnerability*...as this comes off as WEAKNESS...

So if we don't show Interest in how our spouses are feeling, what they care about....but just take for granted "*all is well and good*" ...just because there is no ugly words uttered or something being hurled at each other....it's still possible we could be missing each other....

Especially from a couple who doesn't feel fighting is ever productive....if they have not learned how to open up the conflict/ the inner tension by other means to resolve....it will just fester silently under the surface.... having a sit down talk every so often as you have learned ....it just could save a marriage..
Intimacy deeply felt* IS* the barometer....and this can still be present for couples who have an occasion







)..or a little of this going on *>>*









It's not the Fighting...it's the NOT SHARING OF OURSELVES that leads to the divide... we should feel an a freedom here, a respect and trust that we are cared for... and our feelings matter...or a couple still has some things to work out... It's just that important.. 

This even happened to US...my biggest regrets...and I want to blame my husband for this..because he REFUSED to toot his own HORN when he wanted MORE from me...darn him ! but it was my fault too!! ... for not seeking out how he was feeling...as he was the more SUBTLE partner...

See...me not being subtle at all..(someone would have to tie my mouth shut)... it was difficult for me to reason anyone would suffer & not speak up ...make a FUSS !!.

It's a Live and learn here....Love him anyway! 



> *i literally crave her presence, her touch, her soul.
> 
> i have never experienced this before... openness is what led me here. sometimes it hurt, sometimes i was not sure of myself, but...
> 
> ... i can never go back.*


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

As'laDain said:


> thats the difficult part of being a man. our women often say nothing about how they feel. they often think that we know what they feel by their subtle cues.
> 
> unfortunately, we are not able to interpret their signals.
> 
> ...


I've always said I'm not a mind reader either, and even if they say things, it's not with enough urgency that we take it as a deal breaker. Heck, there are probably a lot of things I don't like in some form or fashion, but they aren't dragging me in the mud, so, I just chalk it up as part of life, smile, and go on.

It sounds like you have a great plan that works with communication. If I were still married, I think it would be a great thing for me to try.

Being that I am no longer married, it's things that are mentioned in this thread that makes me think I will be happy being single the rest of my life. I'm just not excited about the hoops and mind mystery games. 

I look at other relationships I have had in my life: mom, dad, grandparents, children, brother, best friends. It's not "work" to keep my relationship with them, all I have to do is use my common sense and be a normal human. I don't have to sit down with my mother or brother ever so often and ask what it is about me they like or don't like so I can work to strengthen our relationship, and I'm not particularly excited about doing that with anyone.


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

Work, effort, investment, energy etc. a lot of the banter in this thread is all just semantics. 

You can't just walk down the aisle and go back to your little house and then do nothing (no sex, no talking, no time spent together et al.) and expect to have a great marriage. 

Or than maybe you can if you're both deaf, blind, mute, double arm amputee paraplegics. 

Every interaction you have with your spouse has the potential to add or detract from how positively you feel about them.

Personally, I like Sly's quote but I don't take it too literally or word for word. To me it's akin to the Confuscious quote about doing what you love and never having to work another day in your life.

If you love investing energy, time, resources, affection and acts of love into your marriage, it's not going to feel like the negative interpretation applied to "work". But it still is "work".


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Miss Taken said:


> You can't just walk down the aisle and go back to your little house and then do nothing (no sex, no talking, no time spent together et al.) and expect to have a great marriage.


True, but that kind of stuff seems natural. I think the "work" comes in with the mind reading, or a guy does something for Valentine's day and it's not enough and she's in the dumps.

I realize this forum is mostly to discuss problems, and a lot of the problems I read here would drive someone nuts. 

I have a friend, in his 40s, for example, who dated a girl for a couple of months after not dating anyone for a year. He said he had forgotten how much work and crazy time a relationship is. He said if he didn't reply to a text soon enough or didn't phrase a response a certain way, she thought he was upset. He said he gave her a Valentine's gift a day early and then didn't say or do anything on the actual day, and she acted weird. He said he felt like he was in grade school.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Miss Taken said:


> *If you love investing energy, time, resources, affection and acts of love into your marriage, it's not going to feel like the negative interpretation applied to "work". But it still is "work".*



What you said here reminds me of this saying...it's ending..."*a couple must learn the art, and form the habit ..of giving, Loving, Serving, praising...*"... 










But as in all healthy relationships..it takes 2 ..



> *Southbound said*: *True, but that kind of stuff seems natural. I think the "work" comes in with the mind reading, or a guy does something for Valentine's day and it's not enough and she's in the dumps.*


 Here is the thing Southbound...True, some women need to be more forthcoming....men are not mind readers...(neither are women, my husband wanted me to be!)... yet some are just not comfortable spilling too much...it may seem bossy...too direct... it's their personality...they give little clues (if we are not paying close attention, we might miss them entirely).....but it doesn't mean they don't have feelings ...call it a flaw if you will.. (we all have something)... or some need more balance..

But we have the power as the spouse to seek out to KNOW our partners ...what floats their boats (what would they jump up & down for on Valentines Day, where they'd like to go on vacation...what they enjoy doing for Playtime... what little surprises make them puurrrr).....is it really *Work* to seek this learning of each other....to understand what emotionally uplifts our partners...what brings them the highest Joys...cause we want to give to them, seeing them happy makes us happy too? ...wouldn't you want a wife like this... who wants to please you.... 

If Both DO THIS... that's a recipe for some mutual satisfaction on many levels...

One thing I know about you is this...*YOU LIKE TO ASK QUESTIONS*...you like to learn about people / their thoughts/ opinions....look at how many thread questions you have started here...PAGES of [email protected]#$...


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> What you said here reminds me of this saying...it's ending..."*a couple must learn the art, and form the habit ..of giving, Loving, Serving, praising...*"...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


True, I do like to ask questions, but what you described seems like work to me. I guess in all the questions that I have asked, I have reinforced a simple idea within myself; like a Don Williams song says, "I guess we're all gonna be what we're gonna be." I am what I am, and I just can't see myself enjoying a daily journey where I have to search, dig, solve puzzles, and decipher messages, to discover what my partner wants. 

You are correct that it's not everyone's nature to just spill so much. I think that is fine, but I don't think it should be held against the partner if they don't decipher correctly. 

I am very literal minded. I'm even this way at work. Sometimes things are handed down from the top in mystery documents. They spend 200 pages saying what could have been said in a half page, but we are supposed to play the game. I always tell them, tell me what you want me to do and I'll do it, but cut out all the junk. I guess that may work on the job, but not too romantic. However, I just am who I am.


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## ballygirl1971 (Nov 20, 2012)

Not work. It shouldnt feel like work to meet each others needs. It should be a blessing. Not a chore. I enjoy meeting my spouses needs and wish he felt the same.


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

I think one does have to work hard, very hard to keep the marriage strong. It's a labor of love. I consider it loving job that I continually try to change myself into a better and better wife for my DH. He does the same for me. We both continually work at the relationship. Like a diamond in the rough. Hopefully at the end of our lives we will have that diamond of a marriage.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

over20 said:


> Hopefully at the end of our lives we will have that diamond of a marriage.


Sounds kinda sweet.... but to me, this is a little bit off. Wait till the end of our life? And then you can look back and see how good it was??? 

How about treasure it today.... because it IS good. 

I'm with the not work crowd...semantics aside. I was in a marriage, for 23 years, THAT one was work, alot of work.... all the time. Same with my now H. 

We know what doesn't work. We know what we DON'T want (all the things that were so much work!). That part is easy.... 

Turns out we just really LIKE and APPRECIATE each other. And none of it is work.


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

I just meant because we are both works in progress, by the end of our lives I pray we will look back and be very proud of all that we accomplished in life with no regrets. That we never settle and grow apart but keep striving for an even better relationship.

We do treasure our relationship now. We know how blessed we are. He is my rock and my best friend, I adore him.


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## MysticSoul (Mar 3, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I think so much of this is just HOW someone defines the word *WORK* within marriage.....
> 
> Work to me would be GRUELING... digging ditches... sweat pouring off of me..I was thirsty & hungry...but you keep going...you might start complaining it's hot out there... you're tired....when will it be finished...and I can have a BREAK !!......
> 
> ...





SimplyAmorous said:


> What you said here reminds me of this saying...it's ending..."*a couple must learn the art, and form the habit ..of giving, Loving, Serving, praising...*"...


Thanks SA! I do think it comes down to semantics. Work to me is anything that requires a conscious effort. I'm VERY selfish by nature. I have to CHOOSE to put that on the shelf, and rise above my nature. That itself is work. 

I agree about it being subject to your attitude. If you go into this with a mindset of, "Ugh. This is going to suck! Why doesn't he do such-and-such himself!! I'm missing my shows!" then of course it'll be grueling. But if you go into it like, "This needs to get done. I've got some time. DH will talk with me while I do it. It'll be done in a flash!" then it's not going to be grueling. 

I'm not the best person. I'm lazy and selfish. But I try to be better not because my DH EXPECTS me to be better, but because I want to be better FOR my DH. IDK if that makes sense. So I volunteer to cook a few nights a week (he normally cooks b/c of his schedule), and I do the dishes EVERY night even though it is my most hated chore. And I don't complain about having to do it. To me that is work (mostly the not complaining part!). I am making a HUGE effort to do whatever I can to make the household run smoothly for both of us. 

When we do everything together, it doesn't *seem *like work. Unfortunately, we're RARELY together because of him working the third shift. 

Thankfully, I make the dogs keep me company for the grueling chores so at least it doesn't seem so lonely. Folding clothes is so much more enjoyable when there is a 70 lb puppy playing in the laundry, and handing you items. 

P.S. I love your marriage box quote. I'm saving that! Thanks!


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

MysticSoul said:


> Thanks SA! I do think it comes down to semantics. Work to me is anything that requires a conscious effort.


That is probably my definition as well, at least in a relationship. Some may not consider mood interpretations, solving wants and needs mysteries, mind reading, and such to be work, some may even think it is fun, but it would be work to me.

I suppose it's because I'm so logically minded and the fact that no other relationship I have requires that kind of attention. I don't have to sit down with my mother, brother, or best friend, every week and ask what i can do to keep our relationship strong; we both just act normal and it happens naturally.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Philat said:


> Nope, sorry. 37 years of marriage talking here. Work is not about conflict resolution--it is about keeping communication open and adapting to one another's inevitable changes over time.


Yah we are going through this right now. We love each other madly and would prefer to hang out with each other than anyone else. Still we are missing each other. He got ticked at me for the way I put the toilet paper on the roll. The "work" involves some reflection about why we are making somethings out of nothings so that we can enjoy each other again. There is just no way you go into the decades gliding by on compatibility.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

southbound said:


> True, *I do like to ask questions, but what you described seems like work to me. * I guess in all the questions that I have asked, I have reinforced a simple idea within myself; like a Don Williams song says, *"I guess we're all gonna be what we're gonna be." I am what I am, and I just can't see myself enjoying a daily journey where I have to search, dig, solve puzzles, and decipher messages, to discover what my partner wants. *


 Thank you for sharing that....it's kinda like what I am hitting on.. what some may feel is work ...another may not...everyone is so individual and depending on how they view a Partnership & what they deeply desire from it... if they desire it at all.. 

I asked my H last night.....how he would define *"WORK*" in a marriage, ...his answer was "when there is conflict.. in the resolving....that is the work".... outside of this, he doesn't see work.. and we DO fight now & then.. this is not always pleasant...even if we can laugh about it later.. (which I feel is healthy- most of our fights are so stupid)....I asked him to give me a % of what he considers "Work"...I'm going to say he was being gracious replying 1%.. I've started more fights than that !! 



> You are correct that it's not everyone's nature to just spill so much. *I think that is fine, but I don't think it should be held against the partner if they don't decipher correctly.*


 Speaking of my own marriage... what you said right here is WHY I can't take all the blame for where I missed it with my husband in the past.. ... I was seriously ANGRY with him when I learned ..(by some of that digging that needed uprooted mind you)... *he had a slow growing resentment stirring towards me* about wanting more sex.. this man never started a fight, never rocked the boat... He always seemed happy...except I'd notice he was "short" with the kids sometimes & I'd say something about that...but he kept stuffing it down...

It wasn't a deal breaker for him by any means, he would even say he was still happy...he is not a whiner or complainer....yet I feel I had a right to KNOW... that I would have cared to change some things if I KNEW the depth he was FEELING... 

He failed by not opening that subject up with me..I will say he did try ONCE..but he never used the word SEX [email protected]# He said he wanted to hold me more at night.. I am a fidgety sleeper & felt that would just cause him to get less sleep -and he was always more tired over me.... My goodness... had he just used *the right words*... looked into my eyes.. ... I freaking misunderstood him.. blew him off.. and he seethed a little more...unbeknownst to me..this is why during the years before my heightened drive, it seems I initiated him more than he initiated me... he secretly wanted to deny me -so I could get a taste of what it felt like...but didn't have the will power when I came to him..... I just never caught on!...this should have never been. 

I failed by not exploring further on a more emotional level.. by throwing myself too much into our kids / projects....he felt on the back burner...yet we were still so close, did everything together....so WHO KNEW !.....The  thing about all of this was....I LIKE TO DIG...learn his feelings, ask questions, doesn't bother me at all -if my spouse hated that...he'd abhor my [email protected]#$.. ..but for some reason I was off in La La land...and wasn't asking the right darn questions... 

Spouses really can miss each other...

He knows NOW that damn it...if he is upset with me about ANYTHING.. He needs to speak it [email protected]#$ I want that.. I want his happiness too...He's always cared about mine. 



> I am very literal minded. I'm even this way at work. Sometimes things are handed down from the top in mystery documents. They spend 200 pages saying what could have been said in a half page, but we are supposed to play the game. *I always tell them, tell me what you want me to do and I'll do it, but cut out all the junk. I guess that may work on the job, but not too romantic. However, I just am who I am.*


 It's true, we are all geared a certain way...it can't be beat out of us.. ..yet still...working within our own temperaments...and learning more about our partners...we may begin to appreciate those differences , even seeing how they benefit the relationship...we may have to tweak a few things..but not change our over all personality... If we have vastly different desires, wants and emotional needs though ... it will feel like a lot of WORK... not sure how to get around that one... cause it is putting ourselves down A LOT to please another..



> *MysticSoul said*: *Thanks SA! I do think it comes down to semantics. Work to me is anything that requires a conscious effort. I'm VERY selfish by nature. I have to CHOOSE to put that on the shelf, and rise above my nature. That itself is work.*


 I am selfish too..... when it comes to compatibility I like to explain it in such a way that... since we're basically all selfish (can we just admit it).... that it's beneficial (as much as we can) to marry someone who has similar selfish desires...that way we can selfishly Be happy together and it won't seem like work, for the most part... 

For instance, I just LOVE being with my man, yesterday...he was off, we cuddled up & watched 2 movies in a row, then went out with the kids and watched another.. that was 6 hours of movie watching.. but we enjoy that...he isn't thinking "OH MY GOD.. another chick flick I gotta sit through to entertain my wife.... get me out of here !".. He generally enjoys spending time with me, no matter what we do.. this means the world to me.



> *I agree about it being subject to your attitude. If you go into this with a mindset of, "Ugh. This is going to suck! Why doesn't he do such-and-such himself!! I'm missing my shows!" then of course it'll be grueling. But if you go into it like, "This needs to get done. I've got some time. DH will talk with me while I do it. It'll be done in a flash!" then it's not going to be grueling*.


 and we miss it sometimes... 2 days ago he wanted my help making a book shelf....he needed me to hold something while he sawed it...I did.. then asked if he needed anymore help...he said he didn't....








...Now if I am honest, I KNEW he wanted me to stay... it was cold out there & I wanted to get back in the house..(I was being selfish!)...hopped back on TAM even..... he dropped the thing, chipped it...came in the house complaining...it affected his mood... later that night I wanted to have some FUN....he was tired.... he brings up the fact I didn't help him earlier, that I left..... or maybe he wouldn't be tired (Good for him, he is telling me what is on his mind!!)....but yeah.. we miss it sometimes. I should have done better....  



> I'm not the best person. I'm lazy and selfish. *But I try to be better not because my DH EXPECTS me to be better, but because I want to be better FOR my DH*. IDK if that makes sense. So I volunteer to cook a few nights a week (he normally cooks b/c of his schedule), and I do the dishes EVERY night even though it is my most hated chore. And I don't complain about having to do it. To me that is work (mostly the not complaining part!).* I am making a HUGE effort to do whatever I can to make the household run smoothly for both of us*.


Yes ...makes sense :smthumbup: ...even though some may say this is just what is "expected" -helping each other out.. ..when you started to add those extra days of cooking...I am sure it went a long way if he NOTICED & showed a heightened appreciation..... and saying we are sorry when we do miss it. It's all in how we communicate...

I really like this thread.. it's something a lot of us can do a little more >> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/39565-validating-your-spouse.html

..I want my husband to know how much I appreciate all he brings.. this encourages him ...makes him feel he's needed, wanted , loved...this brightens *his mood*.. which in turn brightens MY mood... it keeps that "you are the magnet and I am steel" feeling going on.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

NobodySpecial said:


> Yah we are going through this right now. We love each other madly and would prefer to hang out with each other than anyone else. Still we are missing each other. *He got ticked at me for the way I put the toilet paper on the roll. *The "work" involves some reflection about why we are making somethings out of nothings so that we can enjoy each other again. There is just no way you go into the decades gliding by on compatibility.


You just gotta :rofl: about something like that...the other day he says to me..."Why is the toilet paper roll all wet in the kids bathroom?"...beats me!... did they take it off the roll & it dropped in the tub...pee on it.. honestly with kids, the adventure & mystery is never ending....another day they had a ball stuck in the roll & I couldn't get it out to put it on the holder...I just shake my head...

Neither of us care how it's on the roll.. just that we can get it off... it's available...and well ...it's not wet.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

[email protected] toilet paper roll issues

We're both "roll over" people.The only exception is when my eyes are barely open and I'm changing the roll.
In the middle of the night I changed the roll and didn't put it on correctly,DH flipped in the next day without mentioning it.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

southbound said:


> I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion, but I'll just share my experience in a nutshell.
> 
> *I was married to my x wife for 18 years. We rarely disagreed *and never had a "knock down drag out." I never felt like it was the least bit of work; as a man, I never felt the old ball and chain. Had it been up to my marriage to have created that joke, it never would have existed. We seemed to click and just got along. We had two kids and nothing seemed to change.
> 
> ...


On the surface these types of situations look puzzling. But when you dig deeper, I believe you typically find out that one (or both) spouses keep things to themselves. Maybe they're little things that are of no consequence. But overtime, little things build and build until one day - it bubbles over and one (or both) elect to call it quits. I always thought that whenever you have a situation where a couple rarely disagrees and never fights, most likely someone is bottling up their feelings and slowly building up resentment. Meanwhile, the other spouse is thinking "if it's not broken, don't fix it" and therefore continues on in ignorance. This is the cruise control analogy right here. Also note that this paragraph assumes no cheating. If the wife suddenly finds another man that she connects with, then it could be a completely different situation altogether.


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## MysticSoul (Mar 3, 2014)

LOL! at TP issues!!! Our biggest issue is over chores. And so much of it has to do with validation, SA. Thanks for bringing it up. 

I like the TP a certain way, but I can never remember what way that is, until I go to use it. If it's wrong, just flip it. 

We have three dogs, if the TP is wet, chances are someone either slobbered on it, or someone got a bath recently. lol!!


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

The chore thing was huge for us at first.I felt like his mommy. Turns out,he was just uncomfortable insinuating himself into my chore routine bc he didn't want to overstep. lol such a simple fix all I had to do was ask for help and let him know it was ok for him to clean things his way.


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## MysticSoul (Mar 3, 2014)

ScarletBegonias said:


> The chore thing was huge for us at first.I felt like his mommy. Turns out,he was just uncomfortable insinuating himself into my chore routine bc he didn't want to overstep. lol such a simple fix all I had to do was ask for help and let him know it was ok for him to clean things his way.


Yea. We have designated chores for each person. His problem is FOLLOW THROUGH. 

I do my best to make sure it's balanced between the two of us. He cooks dinner most nights. I do the dishes EVERY night (sometimes twice a day, depending on how many items we've managed to dirty up). He is responsible for the litter boxes. I am responsible for the dog poop. He does the wash. I fold. ETC. 

Lately, I'm doing most everything. And feel unappreciated and taken for granted. But I'm letting it slide since he JUST started third shift and his body is all sorts of crazy. But I have told him how I feel. And I make sure to LOOK for the things he DOES do. Like this morning, one of the dogs stepped in poo and pranced it all around the house. I scrambled to get him bathed, and DH mopped the floors (all laminate, thankfully!) with white vinegar. 

I spent a couple hours last night prepping food for a potluck at work this morning. Got up @ 4:30 am :sleeping: to get everything cooked in time. DH spent some time helping me flip the many many little bacon wrapped smokies on the cookie sheet so they could finish cooking. I just have to remember to encourage that, and REMEMBER all those times he DOES help me. Cause it's SO EASY to fall into the "you don't care about me! Why do I have to DO EVERYTHING" trap.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

MysticSoul said:


> Yea. We have designated chores for each person. His problem is FOLLOW THROUGH.
> 
> I do my best to make sure it's balanced between the two of us. He cooks dinner most nights. I do the dishes EVERY night (sometimes twice a day, depending on how many items we've managed to dirty up). He is responsible for the litter boxes. I am responsible for the dog poop. He does the wash. I fold. ETC.
> 
> ...


Isn't that the tough part  Remembering the good helpful stuff he does when you're feeling stressed and pulled in a thousand directions...

W/my bpd I used to have to keep little post it notes all over the place with DH's good qualities,why I love him,how he helps me,etc. I did it with chores too. It sounds batty but it certainly worked for me to keep things in perspective.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

ScarletBegonias said:


> Isn't that the tough part  Remembering the good helpful stuff he does when you're feeling stressed and pulled in a thousand directions...
> 
> *W/my bpd I used to have to keep little post it notes all over the place with DH's good qualities,why I love him,how he helps me,etc. I did it with chores too. It sounds batty but it certainly worked for me to keep things in perspective*.


I think this is very sweet...you do what works! 

Many yrs ago now...when I couldn't conceive, I would get very moody...I did something similar.. putting scriptures around the house...trying to hold on to Faith, to keep hope alive so I wouldn't get too down in the dumps... I really needed to focus on the positive.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Thank you for sharing that....it's kinda like what I am hitting on.. what some may feel is work ...another may not...everyone is so individual and depending on how they view a Partnership & what they deeply desire from it... if they desire it at all..
> 
> I asked my H last night.....how he would define *"WORK*" in a marriage, ...his answer was "when there is conflict.. in the resolving....that is the work".... outside of this, he doesn't see work...


It's like i mentioned, I don't have to work to keep a great relationship with anyone else in my life, so why would it be enjoyable in a romantic relationship? 

Then again, maybe some people don't see it as work because the people in their relationships don't play the games and require mind reading that I know happens with some people. Perhaps that's it. 

I know a lot of relationships require a lot of stuff that makes one feel like they are in grade school instead of an adult, and that would be work to me.


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## krismimo (Jan 26, 2011)

I think SS was talking about if your in constant disagreements and you don't see eye to eye, that almost everytime you open your mouth something is disected into something negative. I do not think he is dumb and I think what he says hit's home because I have been there and I know what he is refering to. I don't think when he used the word work it was mean't to be a bad thing I feel the context of what he was saying he was refering to what I call The Toy box syndrome, when a person is forcing a circle toy into a squre one and you know the circle part does not fit it but you try anyway and to no avail you get the same result.

My husband and I talk about this all the time how it's just easy with us even when we don't see eye to eye on something we communicate to each other and respect each others opinion enough to hear the other out. I don't think SS was saying marriage has to be perfect and you have to agree ALL the time, but there is some peace of mind where the two of you have a foundation to build upon that is built on love, trust, respect and understanding. If you don't have those things your marriage or any relationship you find yourself in is doomed to fail.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I think this is very sweet...you do what works!
> 
> Many yrs ago now...when I couldn't conceive, I would get very moody...I did something similar.. putting scriptures around the house...trying to hold on to Faith, to keep hope alive so I wouldn't get too down in the dumps... I really needed to focus on the positive.


thanks I usually keep that stuff to myself bc people seem to think if you have to do things like this it's bc you're not that in love w/your partner,ya know? 

It's nice to know others have done similar things 

I say do whatever helps you keep a peaceful mind and heart.Do whatever keeps love as the dominant emotion in your life. I struggle w/that more than I care to admit sometimes.


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