# Not Quite Sexless Marriage But....



## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

I know many of you have seen bits and pieces about my physical relationship with my wife but for those who haven't, here's the bullet list: (This may be more of a rant than anything!)

Married 26 yrs
3 kids (13, 18. 20) Oldest away at school
50 yr old male, wife is 48
Frequency - less than 1x/week
Did the counseling thing
Talked about it numerous times
She seems to understand the idea that it's about emotional bonding for men (thanks to input from Dr. Phil and Dr. Oz!)
Has outright on occasions told me I'm going to get sex on a particular night and nothing happens
RARELY intiates
I have been shot down so many times I feel like one of the Red Baron's victims
Currently not even trying to intiate things in the last three weeks because I'm tired of the rejection
Have done all the "make it about her" suggestions


Worst part of this whole thing is that I have to say she's perfect in every other aspect! If we could just get over this hump on a permanent basis!

We had a text exchange moments ago where she asked how I was feeling today (was a little under the weather earlier this week) and I told her I felt a little nauseous on the way into work this morning but I was OK now. 

She answered back "maybe u r pregnant" I know I probably shouldn't have but I answered back "its hard to get pregnant unless ur having sex"

Haven't heard a peep back since then and it's been a half an hour!

May need a place to stay tonight! Anyone have a spare room in the NYC/NJ area???


----------



## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

I'm not too far out of Philly and we can swap "war stories"...


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Hi toffer ~

Glad you posted - I've seen some of your responses in other threads, but didn't have the gist of what was going on in your marriage.

You mention that you have sex less than 1x a week. What is the desired frequency that you would like? Do you know what the desired frequency is that your wife would like?

Has your sex life ever been more heated? How long has it been at the 1x a week?

Does your wife have any health issues going on? She's a year older than I am, and in the upper 40's women are often on the hormonal imbalance carousel heading off to menopause - it causes a lot of fluctuations and variations in drive as well as many other unpleasant physical symptoms.

Based upon the response, or lack thereof, that you got to your joking around about the pregnancy bit, I tend to think that those kind of lines are usually better left unsaid - even though you are frustrated. She may already feel a tremendous amount of pressure from you on the topic, and that just can make her even more reluctant to meet you halfway.

You said you tried the MC route. What else have you tried? Any IC? Any marriage building programs or activities done on your own together? Any self-help books that you've tried?

Best wishes.


----------



## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

Yes Toffer, remember it is usually the man's fault and also YOUR job to fix it so get to it!! 

/* Frustr8dhubby goes into hiding now... */


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

frustr8dhubby said:


> Yes Toffer, remember it is usually the man's fault and also YOUR job to fix it so get to it!!
> 
> /* Frustr8dhubby goes into hiding now... */


It's whoever is posting here that gets to try and carry the ball forward because they are here with the problem. If that happens to be a man, then yes, he gets to try and pick up the ball and carry it. His wife should also pick up her ball, but since she's not here to take any advice, it's pretty hard to tell her that.

Do you want to start a thread and let us know what's going on frustr8d? You've been peppering the forum with backlash for the last couple of days. Maybe it would help you to let out a good rant.


----------



## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Enchantment, 

Think at this point I would be happy to be at a regular frequency of 2x a week (maybe a third time/week every now and then). I don't think my wife has a desired frequency/week because when we have our longer dry spells, I usually break it by intiating.

Not sure how long we've been at this point of 1x/week. Just started to really think about this since the beginning of this year after coming across articles on sexless marriages and sayng to myself "Ouch! I think we may be close to being in that range"

Wifes health is excellent, actually better than mine by a long shot! She is constantly on the look-out for the big M but it hasn't reared it head as of yet.

Like I said, I know I shouldn't have made the comment I did to her and just bit my lip but I am at the point where it's so infrequent anyway how can she make it worse?

I've been rejected once too often and I'm not sure now if I'm hurt or just pis*ed off!

We have read a couple of books together and as I've said, I often see improvement for periods of time and then back to the norm. I don't think I've put a lot of pressure on her. The last time we spoke she said it wasn't until recently (within the last year) that she realized/learned about the connection for men to the emotional aspect of sex. When we talked about this at length, I thought "Wow! She gets it!"

We even went beyond that and talked about frequencies. In retrospect I believe it was more an issue of her trying to determine what I was hoping for, not what she wanted (bare minimum?)

BTW, wife works part time (under 20 hrs/week) so I know there's some time in her schedule for us!


----------



## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

frustr8dhubby,

As I told you in an earlier post, you're my hero because of this line:

"Why when a woman comes on here and says she isn't getting enough everyone says "oh go get him checked".

When a man says it, the question/answer is virtually always "what need of hers aren't you meeting" or "Man Up"???"

Of course, all cases are different. I've read, I've done more around the house, Hell, I asked OUTRIGHT and things impove for a short while.


----------



## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

:rofl: Your reply was awesome. Too bad if she got upset. It's true....if...guys could get pregnant. lol.

Don't stay in a hotel. Go home like normal. Don't fear the beast.


----------



## Mistys dad (Dec 2, 2011)

Have you checked out www.Marriedmansexlife.com

Athol posts here occasionally, he has some great info on his site.

You need to stop making it about her and start making it about you. It is not selfish to get your needs met. 

Quit worrying about who initiates it. If you want it, you start it. 

Stop taking promises of "later" because that is an avoidance technique. Instead of "Later" start saying "Now". Make the time, make it a priority, make it happen.

Stop believing that she has the keys to a magic chest and you have to beg or pay tribute to see the contents. Sex should be on an equal playing field with both partners responsible for their roles.


----------



## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

Wow, took 8 posts to get to MMSL this time...


----------



## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

that girl - Just kidding about the spare room thing!

Misty's dad - Just got MMSL the other day but haven't started it yet but I swear to God this is the LAST book I'm buying!

The initiating doesn't bother me that much at all. It's the rejection that takes it's toll to the point of why bother initiating?

The "later" promises are usually made at a time where they can't be acted on now. Typical example was coming home from a night on the town via mass transit with some friends and she leaned over and told me something to the extent of how she was "so going to do me tonight" because we had such a great evening. Later comes and she just falls asleep. Makes ya feel real special ya know?


----------



## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Your situation would drive me crazy. She's just a betch. Sorry, but she is. She isn't meeting your needs and she withholds sex.

The nerve of people who do this! I don't get it. it's so damn mean and rude.


----------



## interested (Mar 20, 2012)

I can understand when you are married you expect to be having more sex than when you were single. More then once a week. But just think about if you were single, divorced or widowed. Would you get to have sex with someone you love more then once a week? I have been divorced for 12 years and only wish I could have sex with some one I love once a week, or once a month. I see a lot of posts from HD partners who maybe need to think about how they would get their needs met if they were not married. It would be even harder don't you think?


----------



## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

interested said:


> I can understand when you are married you expect to be having more sex than when you were single. More then once a week. But just think about if you were single, divorced or widowed. Would you get to have sex with someone you love more then once a week? I have been divorced for 12 years and only wish I could have sex with some one I love once a week, or once a month. I see a lot of posts from HD partners who maybe need to think about how they would get their needs met if they were not married. It would be even harder don't you think?


Wasn't that hard when I was single. but if it is, at least when you're single, you have the OPPORTUNITY and the CHANCE to go chase it  You're not in a sexless hell.


----------



## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Interested,
Your response equates to something along the lines that I have a car in the garage but I can't take it out on weekends because someone I've trusted with the keys won't give them to me or tell me where they are.

Apples to oranges my friend

That Girl - I don't consider her a *****. She does so much for the kids and for me. She's fun to be with and loved by all. She just doesn't get this one aspect....

Like I said in the past, she's a great person but I think that my being more accepting of our low frfequency is a result of me going to the plate time and time again and getting struck out. Sometimes it's felt like pity sex too (and that works wonders for the Ol' Ego) and once when we went for a while (3+ weeks) she asked/said to me "I thought you were giving me a break" Well sorry if it's such a frickin chore!

In all honesty, I don't really think she meant it that way but with every other issue surrounding this topic that's how I took it.


----------



## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

However, IF a woman (or man) is LD and their mate is HD, then something has to give.

Your wife COULD give more sex. She loves you, right? So what would it hurt to make love to you? There's something there blocking it. but she denies you and it builds resentment. Does she care?


----------



## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Toffer, I could have written your story, all the way to the broken promises of "soon".

My solution? Currently separated and seeing a beautiful lady for about a year. Sex 5+ times a week for that time, and not vanilla, lights off under the covers sex.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mistys dad (Dec 2, 2011)

that_girl said:


> Wasn't that hard when I was single. but if it is, at least when you're single, you have the OPPORTUNITY and the CHANCE to go chase it  You're not in a sexless hell.


Opportunity and Chance keeps Lions fed.

If more people thought about married sex, like they thought about single sex, most problems wouldn't be there.


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

It can be hard to convince or cajole someone in to having more sex with you. Communicating the need is necessary, but most often the communication needs to be followed up with some kind of action on your part.

If she's always been a lower drive woman, and she has responsive sexual desire to boot, then she likely won't just spontaneously get in the mood for it very often ... she will need to be pulled toward you and led in to it by you.

So, you read on the forum about all of these gals that are hot for their H's and seem to be combusting with spontaneous desire, but I think in reality that most women are likely the responsive desire types ... but since sexuality is most often viewed with a male lens, meaning that we think that someone who does not have spontaneous desire for sex is somehow defective when in fact they aren't... means that many, many couples end up in a quandary about how to move forward together when their drives and desires are so divergent. My own H and I have had to learn how to dance this dance together for more than 20 years.

Hey, if you're into that evo-psych/bio stuff, having the carrier and main nurturer of the next generation be spontaneously horny all the time probably wouldn't be a good thing when trying to take care of a baby and being able to be alert to constant danger. Sorry, I had to put that in there, because I get a bit of a kick out of those kinds of stories. 

MMSL has had a number of success stories documented - both on here and on Athol's blog site. It can't hurt to try his MAP, because it's basically the mantra of assuming personal responsibility for a situation.

If something is a problem or a priority for you, then yes, you do have to take responsibility for the desired outcome that you want. If you do not ... if you defer to your spouse for that outcome... you hand over all control to your spouse to make that outcome happen. If they have a different set of priorities on their list or a misunderstanding of the desired outcome or what it means to you, then it's likely your desired outcome may not happen, or may not happen in the way you would want.

Whether your spouse goes along for the ride with you or not doesn't mean that you shouldn't start the journey. Taking charge of your own life, whether you are a man or a woman, is typically never a bad thing.


----------



## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

Toffer,
I can sympathize with your situation. Over the years (married 23+) my wife and I have spent many a sleepless night staying up until 3am arguing about our sex life. Like your wife, my wife is a wonderful person and I love her like no other. It just seems that at times, we are on totally different wave lengths when it comes to sex frequency. And, like your situation, there were times where it seemed as though a light bulb went off in her head and she finally had an epiphanie of how important our sex life was/is to me. Changes were made and she talked about turning a new leaf only to fall back into old patterns later. This up and down roller coaster was the worst. Even today, we are pretty sporadic when it comes to frequency. I wish I could offer you some good advice but I found no magic bullet. I have been able to manage by having the patience of Job (not to say that I can't be a jerk sometimes and sulk and pout when I don't get my way but I get over it and move on).
I know that my wife loves me...its just that most of the time, she truly doesn't "get" how important this aspect of our life is to me. If I never initiated, I'm sure we could go 6-8 weeks without having sex. Someone in a previous post mentioned that if you want sex, then don't worry about her initiating and you indicated that you didn't have a problem with that. However, I think that having her initiate sometimes is worth a lot to me. Not only do I not risk rejection when she initiates, but I am likely assured that I'm not getting "pity" sex or sex out of a sense of duty. Its also a nice ego boost when she comes after me. She only does this about 5-10% of the time. The rest of the time it is on me. 
Someone said in a previous thread that it is always the LD partner that is in control of the frequency. They are the gatekeeper. I learned this about 5 or 6 years ago and I have been trying to adjust to that reality ever since. If you truly love your wife and have no desire to leave, then you may have to as well.


----------



## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Enchantment, it sometimes feels like a fine line when one tries to take control of their life. In this subject area, I was once actually told that I was being too controlling by initiating. Not wanting to be a controlling ahole, I slacked off a bit.

Communication is often very positive in our lives. I hear her and act on what she wants/needs (not just in the sex dept) and I think she hears me too but then the message gets lost or diluted over time. I have no problem with being the one who has to take action after the communication has taken place. I have been the initiator throuhout our history together and in over 30 years of knowing her, if she's initiated more that 12 times, I'd be shocked.

Again it's always been about the times that you try and then get no where. Hell, I can see times when your partner isn't in the mood for whatever reason. Sometimes I'm tired too! I don't expect her to all of the sudden become a crazy horny woman chasing me through the house! I would continue to initiate if there was some reasonable chance of it getting somewhere! I don't mind trying to get her in the mood.

I am agreeing that I have, to a degree, handed over control for a desired outcome that I want. I am working on getting it back but I also realize that it's still possible I won't get it back. I'll have to evaluate my options at that time and see where they lead us


----------



## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Zatol, I know what you mean! Your situation and mine seem pretty identical!

When my wife initiates it is a wonderful thing to me! You actually feel truly desired and not just that you're going to get lucky! I can only recall her initiating once in the last five months (can't remember anything before November but I am old!)

SprucHub, you and I are on the same page and I know we've gone back and forth about this type of issue earlier.

I know there isn't one answer to resolve this type of issue. I continually read here hoping one day something will jump out at me to try and that will be the answer.

As I said earlier, I am taking back the ownership of the issue for something I want. When we were younger it seemed that no was less of an option. What the hell happened? I guess I became more vested in the marriage as the years went on and was truly concerned that my more aggressive behaviors needed to be tempered when we started our family (i was one of those guys that you did not want to cut off and then give ME the finger if I hit my horn). 

Whatever the case may be, I owe it to myself to try one MORE time and a different approach. After this go around I may as well get castrated. Maybe at that point I will lose interested and will finally have time to pick-up fly fishing!


----------



## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

So what is the solution then? Break up or deal? I dont' know...what do you do besides complain? I'm not being a betch, I'm honestly curious. Just let off steam every so often? It sounds like it can't be fixed.

I will definitely tell my daughters NOT to get into a marriage with someone with opposite sex desires. I think more people should make that a priority when dating so they don't end up miserable in the bedroom.


----------



## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Toffer said:


> that girl - Just kidding about the spare room thing!
> 
> Misty's dad - Just got MMSL the other day but haven't started it yet but I swear to God this is the LAST book I'm buying!
> 
> ...


I have been there with the broken promises. You might need to get to a place where you accept that it is not intentional, and her initial promise is heartfelt. My wife is the same way. I was very resentful when she broke those promises, often undersimilar circumstances. 

What I learned to accept was that, for my wife, she has a shut down point, if you will, where after drinking or staying up late, she just crashes. At the time she made the promise, she intended to keep it. But if the shut down moment hits before she can follow through, she just can't make it. It is not intentional, it is not her trying to hurt me, it just is. I was reading in an intent by her that just was not there.

It helped me a lot to let go of that and not dwell on it. That, in turn, seemed to help her want to make it up to me. By not sulking or pressuring her, her guilt was her own and her making it up to me was her own.


----------



## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

That_girl,

That is the open question that I (and I am sure the others) keep beating around. Everything else is good, is it worth throwing it away for "sex" (though sex isn't the ONLY aspect of it)?

The problem with your second comment is that we weren't mismatched at the beginning of our relationship and no indication was there that it would head this way... In fact, through the early parts of our relationship, I had trouble keeping up with her...

My personal fear is that if it doesn't get resolved, some day I slip up to temptation and now I have destroyed one thing of mine that I cherish and that is my honor and have also hurt people I love...


----------



## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Has she thought maybe HER testosterone is off?

A woman I work with had this issues when she was 38. She took some HRT and things are back to normal now.

But she sounded just like your wife and many wives here. She was shocked when the doc said that her testosterone levels were waaaay low. (women have testosterone too--- a bit of it, for a sex drive).

Possibility. I mean, if she was once freakeh, then what happened? She won't give you a reason, maybe she doesn't even know...and this would tell me it's time to see a doc.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

that_girl said:


> Your situation would drive me crazy. She's just a betch. Sorry, but she is. She isn't meeting your needs and she withholds sex.
> 
> The nerve of people who do this! I don't get it. it's so damn mean and rude.


Agree. She is out-and-out messing with your mind and telling you things that she knows full well will not happen. I will bet that she also uses the "well I was going to but XYZ came up / I was horny but it passed before you got home / etc.).


----------



## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

PBear said:


> Toffer, I could have written your story, all the way to the broken promises of "soon".
> 
> My solution? Currently separated and seeing a beautiful lady for about a year. Sex 5+ times a week for that time, and not vanilla, lights off under the covers sex.
> 
> ...


that is because you are not married.....


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I have been there with the broken promises. You might need to get to a place where you accept that it is not intentional, and her initial promise is heartfelt. My wife is the same way. I was very resentful when she broke those promises, often undersimilar circumstances.
> 
> What I learned to accept was that, for my wife, she has a shut down point, if you will, where after drinking or staying up late, she just crashes. At the time she made the promise, she intended to keep it. But if the shut down moment hits before she can follow through, she just can't make it.


Calling B.S. on this one (at least in most cases if not yours specifically).

We are all adults and are fully aware of our limits. She should know in any given situation what she can provide and not promise something that won't be fulfilled.

ETA: I'm curious for all spouses similarly situated. If they feel free to ignore a sexual commitment, are they equally accepting if you fall through on something you suddenly did not feel up to (say mowing the lawn or hanging a picture)?

Alternatively, once the promise is made, is it really that hard to have one drink less, or have a cup of coffee, and see that a committment is fulfilled?


----------



## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

that_girl said:


> Has she thought maybe HER testosterone is off?
> 
> A woman I work with had this issues when she was 38. She took some HRT and things are back to normal now.
> 
> ...


She sort of had them checked by GP. Won't go to gyno and won't go to MC/IC.

Her main problem (at least for what she will admit to me) seems to be mental. More along the lines of "mommies don't think about things like that" kind of stuff..


----------



## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

confusedinlife said:


> that is because you are not married.....


I was married, for 17 years. And I made a decision that I wasn't going to put up with it anymore. I decided to see if it would feel better if I stopped banging my head against the brick wall that my wife put up as the gatekeeper of our sex life.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

that_girl said:


> So what is the solution then? Break up or deal? I dont' know...what do you do besides complain? I'm not being a betch, I'm honestly curious. Just let off steam every so often? It sounds like it can't be fixed.
> 
> I will definitely tell my daughters NOT to get into a marriage with someone with opposite sex desires. I think more people should make that a priority when dating so they don't end up miserable in the bedroom.


The problem is that desires change....there are no guarantees...


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

SprucHub said:


> This is exactly how HD people (myself included) think. What is it that makes the LD person say "I do not want it." The LD person enjoys it when it happens, but somehow makes clear that they do not want it or are doing it as a favor. There must be something there. I just cannot understand. And, I understand lots of things I do not agree with - the other side of the political spectrum. I concur with you - if a woman says "tonight you're getting some", then goes to sleep, she is being a b*tch. While she may not be so in general, in that instance, she is being one.


But, not every LD person enjoys sex when it happens. Even when they have a physical response, often they are laden with anxiety before and during, or guilt and remorse after.

Some people really are that screwed up.


----------



## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

PBear said:


> I was married, for 17 years. And I made a decision that I wasn't going to put up with it anymore. I decided to see if it would feel better if I stopped banging my head against the brick wall that my wife put up as the gatekeeper of our sex life.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


let's face it...the ld person is the gatekeeper.....


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> The problem is that desires change....there are no guarantees...


Agree. As important as matching desires are, it is more important to have someone that says "your wants and needs will matter as much as my own meeting them will remain a priority for me regardless of how I may feel in the moment".

That is the approach I will take going into any future relationship I may have. I will not enter into a relationship with someone I don't feel this way about, and I will expect the same in return.


----------



## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

frustr8dhubby said:


> She sort of had them checked by GP. Won't go to gyno and won't go to MC/IC.
> 
> Her main problem (at least for what she will admit to me) seems to be mental. More along the lines of "mommies don't think about things like that" kind of stuff..


Wow. I'm sorry. Seems she just doesn't care.

Does that make you still think she's so awesome? I don't think so. She won't try to fix it, she doesn't care that you're suffering. I don't know. sad that she has control over you like that. She graciously allows you to have sex once in a blue moon. It's not fair nor right.

And mommies do think like that...that's how they become mommies again. Geez. I'm a mom. Doesn't mean I'm not a woman.


----------



## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

Yep, the LD person is totally the gatekeeper...


----------



## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Tall, sounds like your wife and mine are sisters! We have the same type of issue with the shut down point. Over the years, it hasn't been a real issue and for the most part I didn't read any real intent into it. She and I would often joke with friends about how if we were in the neighborhood at a party and she'd be a little hot and bothered, I'd have to drive back to our house (maybe 6 mins away) at 90 MPH to get her there before she dozed off!

Most times I've been able let go of that but lately it's been bothering me again, I don't know why. I recognize that it's not intentional but oft times it was also never "made up to me" and seemed to have been forgotten.

Another point of illustration was for Valentines Day, she gave me a pair of her very sexy undies in an envelope marked "for your eyes only". Needless to say, I was excited and anticipating something in the near future since VDay feel in the middle of the week this year. Time came and went and I eventually took the envelope out of the drawer, removed the panties from it and placed them back in her underwear drawer. this was two weeks ago and I placed the envelope in he trash in our room knowing she would see it (I know, we should have communicated about this but hell I was tired of it). She saw it, asked why and I told her. This did intiate another round of talking and I thought AGAIN we covered some real significant ground. Guess where those panties STILL are? Yep, her underwear drawer. Granted, she may be pis*ed at that approach but sometimes may actions over rule my brain!

that girl, like frustr8dhubby, we weren't mismatched either. She was right there with me and was always ready to go. I know starting a family and getting older takes a toll and I can live with that but don't think having the sex life of an 80 year old couple is acceptable. I too always have to wonder what would happen to me if I was truly faced with a real temptation. I hope I could walk away but if I get hit at one of my low points, I can't be totally sure I would. I do know I'd be guilt ridden the rest of my life.

The soultion? Wish I had the slightest clue! For now I intend to keep on trying. Sometimes my words are a form of complaining and blowing off steam and sometimes that helps me put the bigger picture in focus. Didn't think you were being a Beotch! No worries there!


----------



## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

that_girl,

Yes. That is the struggle. Her lack of desire for me (as I feel, or sex in general according to her) kills me but doesn't make her any less of a person/wife/mother in all other aspects.

And I am no perfect specimen. She has to put up with me too..


----------



## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

DTO said:


> Agree. As important as matching desires are, it is more important to have someone that says "your wants and needs will matter as much as my own meeting them will remain a priority for me regardless of how I may feel in the moment".
> 
> That is the approach I will take going into any future relationship I may have. I will not enter into a relationship with someone I don't feel this way about, and I will expect the same in return.


good luck getting that guaranteed as well...


----------



## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

DTO,
Just want to wish you luck with this:

"That is the approach I will take going into any future relationship I may have. I will not enter into a relationship with someone I don't feel this way about, and I will expect the same in return. "

Keep reading and come on back 20 years into your marriage and we can talk. Maybe you'll have gotten it right like some others here but from all I've read here and other places as well as what I hear from friends, chances are you won't!

Maybe you should not get married until you're my age and your ready for your sex life to slooooowww waaaayyy down!


----------



## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Well, it does make her less of a wife.

She may be a good woman and mother, but as a wife, she's lacking. Seriously.

I hope your problem gets better.


----------



## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I have been there with the broken promises. You might need to get to a place where you accept that it is not intentional, and her initial promise is heartfelt. My wife is the same way. I was very resentful when she broke those promises, often undersimilar circumstances.
> 
> What I learned to accept was that, for my wife, she has a shut down point, if you will, where after drinking or staying up late, she just crashes. At the time she made the promise, she intended to keep it. But if the shut down moment hits before she can follow through, she just can't make it. It is not intentional, it is not her trying to hurt me, it just is. I was reading in an intent by her that just was not there.
> 
> It helped me a lot to let go of that and not dwell on it. That, in turn, seemed to help her want to make it up to me. By not sulking or pressuring her, her guilt was her own and her making it up to me was her own.


:iagree:

I believe that I am in the same boat. There were many times where a promise was made only to have have it come to fruition. I can't even begin to describe how aggravating this is. But, I too came to the realization that it was not an intentional slight on my wife's part, that's why (in my case at least) I can't agree with calling her a b**ch because she didn't follow through. However, while I don't think her not following through was unintentional, I also believe that if she understood the importance that I attached to the original promise, there would be more of an effort to actually go through with it.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Toffer said:


> DTO,
> Just want to wish you luck with this:
> 
> "That is the approach I will take going into any future relationship I may have. I will not enter into a relationship with someone I don't feel this way about, and I will expect the same in return. "
> ...


Hi Toffer,

I'm not sure what the problem is. I will note:

(1) I freely admit that I have high standards. But I'm willing to hold myself to those same standards, so I do not see a problem with fairness. I will gladly ensure that any lady I am with in the future gets as much out of it as she puts in.

(2) I have no desire (currently) to be in a relationship where we do our own thing, and we will either get together (sexually or platonically) or we won't; that is what dating is for. Nor do I desire to be in a relationship where a partner expects much but provides little in return (which I think is at the crux of much of the resentment you see on TAM).

(3) I'm going to be 40 here in a few months - how much longer do you expect me to wait for it to slow down? Seriously, though, my expectations are not out of line. I would be content with 2-3x per week of involved sex and foreplay (not just PIV, and not just duty sex). The key will be to find a partner that actually has a matching sex drive and commitment to me. This is one of those things that a person in the right frame of mind would see that level of activity as positive or neutral, whereas the wrong person would see it as difficult if not untenable.

ETA: I'm not looking at this in just a sexual context, but in terms of an overall commitment context. I really believe in a marriage specifically being two people becoming one. I know it can be done because I see those types of relationships in my everyday life.

Being as concerned for your partner as you are for yourself is not incompatible with being a healthy person with individual goals and ideals. It more means that you learn to not always put the self first. I don't know what about that concept is so hard to grasp or put into practice.

Besides, what is the alternative to a marriage where both value their spouses equal to themselves? A marriage where both spouses do their own thing with only moderate (at most) sacrifice for the other and still manage a strong relationship? That is unlikely - what typically happens when spouses don't give equally and generously to each other is that one spouse winds up assuming dominance (makes little sacrifice) and the other of course is submissive (makes most of the sacrifices to prevent conflict).

I've BTDT to the full and do not want to do that again. I have no desire to dominate someone else in a relationship (does not feel like much of a partnership). And, I know I cannot be happy in a relationship where my wants and needs are less than hers. I'm just being honest here.


----------



## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

DTO said:


> Hi Toffer,
> 
> I'm not sure what the problem is. I will note:
> 
> ...


I would stay single if I were you with those restrictions...


----------



## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

confusedinlife said:


> I would stay single if I were you with those restrictions...


No, he just needs to be picky. There is someone out there for everyone.


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

DTO said:


> Agree. As important as matching desires are, it is more important to have someone that says "your wants and needs will matter as much as my own meeting them will remain a priority for me regardless of how I may feel in the moment".
> 
> That is the approach I will take going into any future relationship I may have. I will not enter into a relationship with someone I don't feel this way about, and I will expect the same in return.


There you go!

As much as people may think the lower drive individual is the gatekeeper, THIS is the key - having someone who is willing and committed.  This is how it works in my marriage as I readily admit I am a lower drive, sexually responsive person, but as I like to tell my husband, I am high desire to make things work (stubborn, I guess) and I am high commitment.

Of course, I will admit that finding someone like that from the get-go can be a bit like when Harry Potter was trying to find the correct key amongst all of those flying keys...and for myself, it was something that I had to GROW into as a person - I was not like that when we got married (well, except for being very stubborn.)


----------



## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Enchantment said:


> There you go!
> 
> As much as people may think the lower drive individual is the gatekeeper, THIS is the key - having someone who is willing and committed.  This is how it works in my marriage as I readily admit I am a lower drive, sexually responsive person, but as I like to tell my husband, I am high desire to make things work (stubborn, I guess) and I am high commitment.
> 
> ...


----------



## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Confusedinlife, you seem very adamant that everyone ends up sexless in a marriage. I know this isn't the case for everyone. Maybe it was for you and others here, but it's not for everyone, especially when it's a part of life/conversation and a priority.

Maybe I'll eat my words, but I doubt it. We've never been this attracted to anyone and we didn't settle for each other. 

If people are LD and know it and are working on it, I find that way better than someone who is LD and doesn't want to deal with it and/or help it. THOSE people, to me, are being cruel to their mates.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

that_girl said:


> No, he just needs to be picky. There is someone out there for everyone.


I agree (obviously).

Besides (and here is a question you naysayers have ignored), what is the alternative? Accepting a relationship where either you are ignored to a significant extent?

Like I said before, at least one partner in a relationship is getting their needs met. The other partner can either be getting their needs met also, or is minimizing his or herself to avoid conflict.

Interesting that people are convinced the only way to have a successful marriage is to have low expectations (at least sexually).


----------



## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

that_girl said:


> Confusedinlife, you seem very adamant that everyone ends up sexless in a marriage. I know this isn't the case for everyone. Maybe it was for you and others here, but it's not for everyone, especially when it's a part of life/conversation and a priority.
> 
> Maybe I'll eat my words, but I doubt it. We've never been this attracted to anyone and we didn't settle for each other.
> 
> If people are LD and know it and are working on it, I find that way better than someone who is LD and doesn't want to deal with it and/or help it. THOSE people, to me, are being cruel to their mates.


All i am saying is that there are no guarantees...20 years ago my life and i were doing it every day....times change....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

my wife and i...not life and i.... 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Then what happened, Confused? Things just don't up and change for no reason. What snapped?


----------



## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I just feel bad for you guys (and ladies) who have spouses who don't want you sexually  It pisses me off that you just take this emotional abuse and make excuses for these people who WILL NOT fill your needs. 

It's wrong. I'm not judging you, or saying YOU'RE wrong, but the treatment you are getting is wrong. Why should your spouse get what they want (no sex) and expect you just to deal with it? Hell no. I'd love to slap the shet out of these people. I'm sorry you have this emotional abuse. It sucks. I know from experience. I honestly didn't think I'd find someone who was compatible with me that way...then I found Hubs. 

You guys mostly just seem like cool guys. You shouldn't be going through this bullshet. NO ONE signs up to have a sexless, passionless marriage


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Toffer ~

I asked you about frequency before. You said you're averaging 1x a week ... which isn't actually that bad of a frequency in comparison to what we normally see on TAM (which are sexless marriages with little to no sex at all for YEARS).

You said you wanted 2x a week or so. You didn't know what she wanted.

I asked the question because it is possible that she wants it much less than the 1x a week and is already compromising up a lot.

If so, she may feel like she's already showing a great deal of commitment and effort to meet your needs and possibly doesn't understand why you are still so unhappy...what more could he want? 

It might be an avenue to explore. Like for my H and I with such differing drives and differing things that are important to us individually, we've been able to develop empathy for each other's situation over time. Even though I may not understand what it feels like to be a HD, I feel for what he goes through. I also very much appreciate that he reciprocates now...there was a time when he did not have much empathy to my plight and that makes it much more difficult. Realizing that we really BOTH are making an effort for each other has made a big difference in our marriage.

Do you think your wife would be willing to engage in other sexual things ... if not PIV, then maybe hand jobs, or BJs, or other intimate activities during the week? Have you ever brought up those possibilities to her?

And, I don't know whether you addressed this before...but when you do have sex, does she easily get aroused, does she enjoy it? What are the ways that sex is initiated? A lot of women get a bigger thrill out of the overall experience than just the finish line, so how the sex is initiated, managed overall, and the ramp-down is just as important as having an orgasm.

Best wishes.


----------



## Jwayne (Dec 4, 2011)

I'm here man. Your wife sounds like my wife. Does anyone need a spare freezer in the house. I've got one for you and it will keep it cold forever. You guessed it. It's my wife. Right now, my wife couldn't lite a gas covered pile of dried up wood. There's a little anger here. Can you tell.


----------



## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

that_girl said:


> Then what happened, Confused? Things just don't up and change for no reason. What snapped?


well menopause did not help.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

DTO said:


> Calling B.S. on this one (at least in most cases if not yours specifically).
> 
> We are all adults and are fully aware of our limits. She should know in any given situation what she can provide and not promise something that won't be fulfilled.
> 
> ...


Yup, some people will simply say they changed their minds. And they can sometimes change their minds in 5 minutes, or while walking from the car to the house.... This is the BS story I have heard, anyways. Saying you will do something, mowing the lawn, or having sex, doesn't mean much to some.

Some would say that it being selfish. Not willing to meet your partners needs. Simply because they are too busy thinking about themselves. If you bring it up... well then you are being self centered, aren't you?

It should be a natural response. If you love your spouse you want them to be happy and you will do what makes them happy. Behavior outside of this to people who are focused on their spouse seems outrageous and cruel. 

To others... who don't even know how to put their partner first... it's the natural thing to do. They don't even see anything wrong with it.


----------



## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Enchantment,
I'm not sure what to tell you about how many times she would want to have sex. I expressed to her how many times I would like to and she never told me that it was too much or too little or anything in between.

Besides, everyone here has been going on about how a partner should meet the other's needs and sacrifice. So if she wants 0 and I want 2, we compromise at 1? Seems like we are both still not meeting each other's needs. We've merely spilt the baby down the middle. When I said we average 1x a week that is truly an average. Since January 1, we've had sex 10 times including HJ and BJ and yes they have been discussed and she knows they are alternatives.

When we do have sex, she does enjoy it (of course every guy wants to say that!). Getting her aroused through foreplay is pretty easy as a matter of fact and sometimes she's almost climaxed during foreplay. 

Not sure what details you're asking for about how sex is "managed" (you're not a management consultant or industrial engineer are you?). 

Sex is usually intiated by me once we've gotten behind closed doors (because of the kids) but also happens throughout the week wth hand holding, touches and I love yous from both of us. Once in bed, it will often start with me rubbing her shoulders or back (she loves my massages) and it progresses from there (make mental picture).

Afterwards, we're both usually spent for a while and cuddle a bit as we drift off to sleep. Some mornings I'll manually stimulate her to O again and don't always get reciprocation nor expect it. Some mornings are followed by a massage (most weekend mornings regardless of any sex).

Confused, I agree that things change throughout the progression of the marriage. 

Enchantment and That Girl, just curious but how long have the bith of you been married, how many kids, is this your first marraiges and how old are you guys?


----------



## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

Toffer said:


> Enchantment,
> I'm not sure what to tell you about how many times she would want to have sex. I expressed to her how many times I would like to and she never told me that it was too much or too little or anything in between.
> 
> Besides, everyone here has been going on about how a partner should meet the other's needs and sacrifice. So if she wants 0 and I want 2, we compromise at 1? Seems like we are both still not meeting each other's needs. Is 1 time a week acceptable to you? is it acceptable with your wife? if so you are in fact trying to meet one anothers needs?
> ...


----------



## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

We may be trying but we ARE not meeting!

Her Needs are 0. Mine are 2 (This is all hypothetical remember)

We have MEET each other's needs but we tried. What we've done in this case is COMPROMISE


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Toffer said:


> Enchantment,
> I'm not sure what to tell you about how many times she would want to have sex. I expressed to her how many times I would like to and she never told me that it was too much or too little or anything in between.
> 
> Besides, everyone here has been going on about how a partner should meet the other's needs and sacrifice. So if she wants 0 and I want 2, we compromise at 1? Seems like we are both still not meeting each other's needs. We've merely spilt the baby down the middle. When I said we average 1x a week that is truly an average. Since January 1, we've had sex 10 times including HJ and BJ and yes they have been discussed and she knows they are alternatives.
> ...


Hi toffer ~

You and your wife are in a similar stage of life as me and my husband. I am 47, he just turned 50!  We are coming up on 23 years being married - first (and hopefully only) marriage for both of us.  We have two sons - older teen @ 17 and a little guy who just turned 8. We both work, share household tasks, both have a few assorted health things going on. My H has always been much, much higher drive - always had spontaneous desire. I've always had a lot less drive, been more prone to having stress and fatigue really knock me down. I can relate to a lot of guy's wives probably. 

It's awfully hard when your spouse doesn't communicate with you, though. I can't remember whether it was you or somebody else who mentioned that their wife was finally starting to get a glimpse of what sex meant to their husband or what it might feel like for him. I certainly didn't have that kind of a glimpse for many years in, and was something that I learned over time. I always felt defective because I wasn't like my H - I had the philosophy that something must be wrong because I just wasn't hot to trot all the time and didn't think about it all the time. Had no problems getting going when we started, though. But, I like to read and research and when I hit 40 I started doing that a lot and finally came to some kind of epiphany that I was totally normal, and that we should just continue learning how to make it work. Helps a lot that both my H and I were on board. It's been better than ever - even with all of the various health issues and typical kid and work problems you encounter.

Yah --- I think you do have to compromise at times, and the definition of compromise means that you do give up some things in order to pursue and have the greater part of what you want. One person cannot always have to sacrifice everything they desire, both have to be willing to sacrifice something. That's why I asked about her desires. Sucks that she won't really talk about it - but she may genuinely not know. You don't know what you don't know and you don't feel what you don't feel.

I'd be more concerned about a lack of initiative in wanting to make things better in your marriage. Does she really feel that everything is a-ok? Why would she feel that way if you are so visibly upset with this aspect of your lives?

If she's willing one of the things you may consider doing together is "His Needs, Her Needs". It can be a real eye-opener. There's a book you can read together, and there's a website (marriagebuilders.com) where they have additional information and worksheets. You each go off and fill out a worksheet on the things that turn you off of your partner (they call it the 'lovebusters') and then you each fill out a worksheet on things that you feel you need (your 'emotional needs'.) It can open a dialogue and discussion into things that may be hard to articulate verbally - you can simply fill out the sheets, review them together, and discuss them. Maybe something will come to light out of all of that. Maybe she will have an epiphany about what you are trying to tell her, and maybe you will have one about her about something she hasn't ever been able to articulate.

Heck, my oldest just finished some kind of pyschology profile where he profiled both me and my husband separately. I just read through my husband's profile and there was something in there that he had never ever told me about - it kind of blew me away actually - just a personal detail from something when he was a kid that really impacted some of his thinking as an adult. You never know what you might find.

Best wishes.


----------



## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

Toffer said:


> We may be trying but we ARE not meeting!
> 
> Her Needs are 0. Mine are 2 (This is all hypothetical remember)
> 
> We have MEET each other's needs but we tried. What we've done in this case is COMPROMISE


Compromise, isnt that what both of you should be looking to do, in a way that makes BOTH of you generally happy to do it....

I'm in the same boat as you, tried it all, read it all, banged my head on the wall etc etc, she changed, I changed, then back to the same ole,same ole...we always fall back to our true selves...

Last week after years, I let go of my resentment for her being who she is sexually, 
I love her, she's my best friend, still takes my breath away when I see her...I know she will always have my back and I will have hers...

I am trying to change my way of thinking on what exactly my needs are and possibly repriotize them (trying being the operative word here) and she said she is willing to do the same, maybe it will work maybe it wont, but I will try everything before I would consider throwing in the towel..


----------



## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

DTO said:


> Calling B.S. on this one (at least in most cases if not yours specifically).
> 
> We are all adults and are fully aware of our limits. She should know in any given situation what she can provide and not promise something that won't be fulfilled.
> 
> ...


Certainly, but sometimes it is too late. In the example I am thinking about personally, the promise was made on the way home, similar to the OP's situation. My wife did not drink any more. She went upstairs to get in bed, while I locked up the house and got things in order. She was out like a light when I walked in the bedroom door less than 10 minutes later. Further, I am not sure that with her having been drinking that I can expect the same level of analysis and judgment that would occur is she had not been.

So with that in mind, my point is merely that assuming she is making the promise with the intent to break it or not caring if she breaks it may not be accurate. Understanding this helped me avoid resentment. I also had a quick talk with her about this, and she has worked on only making these promises when she is confident that events won't get in the way. Just as I need to be a man of my word, she understands I need the same from her.

Finally, I changed my behavior to head up to the bedroom with her right away, then worry about getting the house ready for the night. While she has changed, I figure why take the chance that she will slip up.


----------



## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Enchantment, I don't think communication is a huge issue for us. Guess it's more of an issue of follow through on what is communicated and committed to. 

Yes, it was me when I mentioned that she actually brought up the subject about that she was finally starting to get a glimpse of what sex meant to me in the last year (this discussion was about a 8 weeks ago) so I was hoping it would lead to some more dialouge but it didn't. Nor did it lead to increased contact.

Believe me, I/we know how to compromise. I don't think we could have been married for 26 years without this ability.

Not really sure how she feels right now and if she thinks everything is OK. That's my fault because I haven't brought the subject up in a while because I have been in a bit of a funk during this last "drought" of two and a half weeks (and it will hit three by this weekend since when we do have sex, it tends to have to be either on a Friday or Saturday night. Lack of spontaneity is a whole different issue)

I do intend to bring the matter up again this weekend when we have some time by ourselves. It's hard to have this type of discussion when I typically don't walk through the door before 7:30 PM or so during the week. then there's dinner, cleaning up afterwards, picking a kid up at pratice and you know the rest!

Don't know that I'm that obviously upset in her eyes. I still pretty much do all the same things I normally do at night with the exception of the non-sexual touches I usually do. She's said in the past that she's fraid to touch me because it will lead to sex (at least in my eyes) so often times when we sit together I've come to notice that I am the one who is holding her hand or placing my hand on her thigh. She just sits there.

Did the his needs her needs excercise before and it helped for a while. Going to try the MMSL and then that's it in the self help book exercise. Thought she had her ephaniny weeks ago. Guess I was wrong.

Struggling, I haven't been able to let go of the resentment yet. Like you, I am trying. I feel exactly the same way about my wife as you do. "I love her, she's my best friend, still takes my breath away when I see her...I know she will always have my back and I will have hers...". The problem with this view is that it also makes me want her sexually.

I'm not ready to throw in the towel yet. Too much good to just walk away from. We truly do not have any other real issues. Again, this is the result of years of change and I understand that. I've changed too! My drive has diminished significantly but unfortunately her has gone down even further than mine.

Also want to ask her to have DR check her T levels when she next goes (she's also one of those people who don't like to go so this will be an issue)

Thanks to all for your viewpoints. It has again given me quite a bit to digest and think about.

Easiest approach may be to go all Alpha on her ass and just tell her how it will be! Just kidding but it felt good to write that!


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Toffer,
Perhaps this is more a communications issue than you believe.

For example your w gave you a valentines day present that she expected you to respond to in a specific manner.

Perhaps she thought you would take her upstairs a bit early one night and directly tell her to put them on.
You however have no idea what she expects, only what you expected which was for her to put gem on and initiate.

If it were me I would NOT have a long involved conversation about my feelings.

I would just ask her directly: why did you give me that gift? What did you want/hope/expect me to do with it? What were you (she) thinking when you bought them?

Why did you promise to connect with menon V day and then not do so? Or more importantly not follow up the next day.

Btw my wife on occasion will promise and then get tired but she always follows thru the next day.

You have not enforced some basic boundaries. And they are simple: if you promise, you get a day of slack to follow thru in the event you are tired or have had a couple drinks. But if you promise and don't follow thru and I pursue you the next day "no" is not an option as that is simply cruel teasing of an already semi starved partner.

And it is cruel. Btw: my w has a mean streak. She does. Hey no one is perfect. But when she is mean I immediately go into "problem solving mode" and detach/freeze her out until we agree that she isn't going to do "that" again, whatever "that" happens to be.

You seem not to realize that a kind loving partner is also capable of being cruel if you let them.



OTE=Toffer;639492]Enchantment, I don't think communication is a huge issue for us. Guess it's more of an issue of follow through on what is communicated and committed to. 

Yes, it was me when I mentioned that she actually brought up the subject about that she was finally starting to get a glimpse of what sex meant to me in the last year (this discussion was about a 8 weeks ago) so I was hoping it would lead to some more dialouge but it didn't. Nor did it lead to increased contact.

Believe me, I/we know how to compromise. I don't think we could have been married for 26 years without this ability.

Not really sure how she feels right now and if she thinks everything is OK. That's my fault because I haven't brought the subject up in a while because I have been in a bit of a funk during this last "drought" of two and a half weeks (and it will hit three by this weekend since when we do have sex, it tends to have to be either on a Friday or Saturday night. Lack of spontaneity is a whole different issue)

I do intend to bring the matter up again this weekend when we have some time by ourselves. It's hard to have this type of discussion when I typically don't walk through the door before 7:30 PM or so during the week. then there's dinner, cleaning up afterwards, picking a kid up at pratice and you know the rest!

Don't know that I'm that obviously upset in her eyes. I still pretty much do all the same things I normally do at night with the exception of the non-sexual touches I usually do. She's said in the past that she's fraid to touch me because it will lead to sex (at least in my eyes) so often times when we sit together I've come to notice that I am the one who is holding her hand or placing my hand on her thigh. She just sits there.

Did the his needs her needs excercise before and it helped for a while. Going to try the MMSL and then that's it in the self help book exercise. Thought she had her ephaniny weeks ago. Guess I was wrong.

Struggling, I haven't been able to let go of the resentment yet. Like you, I am trying. I feel exactly the same way about my wife as you do. "I love her, she's my best friend, still takes my breath away when I see her...I know she will always have my back and I will have hers...". The problem with this view is that it also makes me want her sexually.

I'm not ready to throw in the towel yet. Too much good to just walk away from. We truly do not have any other real issues. Again, this is the result of years of change and I understand that. I've changed too! My drive has diminished significantly but unfortunately her has gone down even further than mine.

Also want to ask her to have DR check her T levels when she next goes (she's also one of those people who don't like to go so this will be an issue)

Thanks to all for your viewpoints. It has again given me quite a bit to digest and think about.

Easiest approach may be to go all Alpha on her ass and just tell her how it will be! Just kidding but it felt good to write that![/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## confusedinlife (Mar 9, 2012)

Toffer said:


> Enchantment, I don't think communication is a huge issue for us. Guess it's more of an issue of follow through on what is communicated and committed to.
> 
> Yes, it was me when I mentioned that she actually brought up the subject about that she was finally starting to get a glimpse of what sex meant to me in the last year (this discussion was about a 8 weeks ago) so I was hoping it would lead to some more dialouge but it didn't. Nor did it lead to increased contact.
> 
> ...


"I have been in a bit of a funk during this last "drought" of two and a half weeks (and it will hit three by this weekend "

drought? count your blessings....


----------



## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Confused,

Not trying to rub it in to anyone here, hence the title of the thread. last time we went through this type of drought it went for a couple of months and I do not want to go down that path AGAIN.

Not sure if you've read this whole thread or some of my others but a few months back when I was feeling pretty low and not initiating at all she said to me that she thought I was "giving her a break". Really? A break from 1 every two weeks? That comment really made me feel like sh*t since I felt that maybe being with me was a "chore". Real ego bruiser even though I know she didn't mean it that way.

MEM, I know I don't know it all but I do know my wife pretty well (at least I like to think I do but maybe not in THIS one area) and I know that what she would have done was slip into those panties if she was really interested. She had before

Think I may be in my "problem solving" mode now. I haven't frozen her out completely but I know she thinks something is up. As I've said a number of times here, if you keep trying and get rejected, after a while you don't want to try anymore to avoid that whole "Am I not good looking enough? What's wrong with me?" self-doubting process.


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Toffer said:


> Enchantment, I don't think communication is a huge issue for us. Guess it's more of an issue of follow through on what is communicated and committed to.


Interesting ... as I was going to say that communication seems like a really big issue. Both of you are communicating past the other - on the surface only. 

The other thing is that communication involves more than just words - it involves the body and your senses as well.

If you get uncommunicative, down, or detached during the times when you don't have sex, that is still communicating something to your wife. It's just that it's a very negative way of trying to say what you really want to say... which she may find in itself very distancing. You shoot yourself in the foot.

She doesn't want to touch because it can lead to sex...she is not emotionally connected to you ... and it's likely not sex that she needs for that, but something else. Something that is not currently present.

If there have been times in the past when you both have been really in tune and in sync with each other, what was different about then and now - about both of your actions?

I know you said you tried MC before. When was that? What was the reason you went? What was the reason you stopped? And what's the reason why you wouldn't be willing to try again if there's a chance that it could help? It may help you two to be able to understand what the obstacles may be in why there isn't able to be any follow-through.

As I said in another post the other day, a quote by the great Wayne Gretzky: "_You miss 100% of the shots you don't take_."


----------



## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Toffer said:


> Confused,
> 
> Not trying to rub it in to anyone here, hence the title of the thread. last time we went through this type of drought it went for a couple of months and I do not want to go down that path AGAIN.
> 
> ...


Is there anything specific going on in your/her life during the times when there is a drought? Is there additional stress? Are there health issues? Are you two fighting about something?

How is it that the droughts end? What's the catalyst that breaks the droughts?

Are the droughts more often in recent years? I know you said she's on the lookout for menopause, but women have years of hormonal imbalance before they hit menopause. Hormonal imbalance can be a nasty business - does she see her doc regularly - let them know what kinds of symptoms she may be having?


----------



## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Enchantment, Don't know how to explain the comm problem but all other issues we've ever had we've managed to talk through and act on and they've rarely re-surfaced.

I understand that currently I am communicating a negative message with body language and the lack of touch. I the type that tends to get pis*ed off but wait a while before I say anything because I want to calm down and try and work it through my mind first and don't want to say something in the heat of the moment.

The issue of touch has always been a sore point for me. I do not fell that way at all. It may have been that way 20 years ago but not in recent memory. I wonder if it could be another reason to avoid it?

Again, i have tried finding out what it is she needs/wants to feel emotionally connected and in the past I have been given examples of what she wants and I did/do them and she agrees that I have (I've heard this from so many other men here!).

We went the MC route a few years back after some family related (in-law issues) caused some friction between us. During that time we worked on this issue and also on improving communication and compromising skills, some of the same techniques we still use today.

She at one point felt she had enough when it seemed like I was progressing more than she was and she felt the MC turned against her. I told her we could find another but she didn't want to. I went for a few more sessions but realized what was the point of joint counseling if I was alone.

Believe it or not, things were fine for quite q while on all fronts after that.

Nothing different than normal in our lives at this point. Been trying to figure that out for a while and actually started to journal things about 9 months back to see if I could see any specific patterns but nothing apparent yet.

Not sure exactly why drought ends. She'll all of the sudden be very affectionate one day/evening and then it's over!

Guess I'll have to pursue the med side of this and get her to go to her Dr and check hormones.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Toffer,
A bit of preface, I love, fear and respect my wife. I do not tussle with her lightly. I believe that you know your wife. And that she knows you quite well also. Therefore she knew that her gift would put you into an intense state of sexual anticipation. Do not let her off the hook in that. Babe knew exactly how you would react. And then she ignored you. Even when you put the wrapper in a place she would see. Why is it ok for her to get you wound up and then ignore you? 
Why is it ok for her to get the "validation" of knowing you have intense desire for her, without her having the obligation to reciprocate?

You have created this monster Over the years by letting her tease you with a promise and then act as if she never even offered to have sex. This is not about "that night" or alcohol or fatigue. I would not give my wife grief about being tired. But this offer - luxuriate in the ego bath that follows - and then pretend to forget the offer. That would never fly with me.




QUOTE=Toffer;639640]Confused,

Not trying to rub it in to anyone here, hence the title of the thread. last time we went through this type of drought it went for a couple of months and I do not want to go down that path AGAIN.

Not sure if you've read this whole thread or some of my others but a few months back when I was feeling pretty low and not initiating at all she said to me that she thought I was "giving her a break". Really? A break from 1 every two weeks? That comment really made me feel like sh*t since I felt that maybe being with me was a "chore". Real ego bruiser even though I know she didn't mean it that way.

MEM, I know I don't know it all but I do know my wife pretty well (at least I like to think I do but maybe not in THIS one area) and I know that what she would have done was slip into those panties if she was really interested. She had before

Think I may be in my "problem solving" mode now. I haven't frozen her out completely but I know she thinks something is up. As I've said a number of times here, if you keep trying and get rejected, after a while you don't want to try anymore to avoid that whole "Am I not good looking enough? What's wrong with me?" self-doubting process.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Toffer said:


> she said it wasn't until recently (within the last year) that she realized/learned about the connection for men to the emotional aspect of sex.


On that subject, and how painful and devastating frequent rejection can be to a man...

(EDIT: I went on to say more, but have since decided it would be more appropriate to start my own thread with my own pain, rather than try to drop some here. Please pardon the inconvenience -- I'm new here  )


----------

