# Husband wants permission to sleep with other women, says I can sleep with other men



## floridagirl (May 22, 2011)

i got married to my current husband almost 2 years ago and i have given up so much for him. he is my second husband. i moved from the u.s. to europe with him shortly after our marriage but we are planning on moving back to the united states, however to a state neither of us has lived in, this october if things go as planned. 

living so far from my country has been hard, however i agreed to move with him because i was, and still am, in love with him. before i married him i knew that his job sometimes required moving around, so i was willing to make this sacrifice. i dont regret it because i've learned and experienced a lot of new things here.

all of this is besides the point, however. as you can see by the title, he has currently proposed a very strange idea. i don't remember when he first brought it up, but it was at least 3 weeks ago. 

he told me that he had something to discuss with me and that he had been thinking about this for a while. he said that he believes the key to maintaining a marriage is sexual satisfaction. he told me that our sex life was very good, however all good things get stale. he says it's not stale right now, but that one day we will both get tired of each other. 

so he says that we should give each other permission to sleep with other people every once in a while. i was completely shocked and i thought he was joking but then he started setting up a bunch of rules. 

he said that first of all, when we were considering having sex with someone else, we should tell each other about it BEFORE we do it. that way neither of us is left in the dark. second of all, having a continuous sexual relationship with one particular person is not allowed. he says that although he is proposing that we open up our sexual lives to other people, we should keep our romantic affections for only each other. he believes that having a continuos sexual relationship with one other person would lead either me or him to develop feelings for that person, which he thinks is bad. thirdly, neither of us can have sex with close friends of ours. fourthly, he can't have sex with women i don't like, and i can't have sex with men he doesn't like.

basically he doesn't think it's natural for people to stay attracted to one person for their entire lives without having to tell themselves that they are or going to counseling. he says that we're all animals and that humans are not naturally monogamous and that it's only natural for people to want to sleep with others at some point. he also doesn't think that sex is always romantic or reserved for love. that sometimes it's simply to feed an appetite. he says as long as we only think of it as the other person pursing natural urges instead of as betrayal, that it won't hurt either of us.

he says that if we did this, it would not be cheating because cheating is only cheating if the other person doesn't know about the relationship and is against it. he says if we give each other permission then we are changing our game rules, so we wouldn't be cheating at the game.

well, i am not happy about this at all.  in fact i don't even know what to say as it has come completely out of the blue. he talked to me for a very long time, trying to make me understand his point of view, but i don't think i can handle something like that. i am very territorial when it comes to my men. i do NOT like to share.

i can't help but feel that he is just asking me for permission to have as many affairs as he wants. if i agreed he would never have to worry about hiding his tracks, in fact he would say it to my face.

i am feeling very very paranoid about all this. my first marriage ended after i discovered my husband had been having a long affair behind my back, so this is opening up a lot of wounds and insecurities for me. it bothers me that he would even bring this up because he knows very well about my past. this is making me feel all those old things like that i'm not desirable enough to keep a man for myself.  and after moving and making so many sacrifices to make this work, i don't know how to feel.

honestly even though i'm not old, i'm not so so young anymore that i can go out and find myself another man to have a long relationship with and to marry. people also suspect people like me who have been divorced not just once but multiple times. the thought of being alone terrifies me and i don't want to give up so easily. my husband is very good to me and he's very intelligent too. some of the things he says concerning this makes sense to me but the idea is too radical for my what i was brought up to believe, which is that you don't sleep around after you're married. i'm just very confused. i don't know if i should accept what he's saying.


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## Tourchwood (Feb 1, 2011)

have you guys tried swinging or three somes?
may be that would be a deal for both of you?

are you open to it?
this way you know what your husband is doing.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Um NO!! Not today not ever. I'm aware there are some men (I actually know a few in real life) out there who want to have their cake and eat it too but it won't be with me. No swinging, no three somes, no other woman, no EA's, nothing but me. And if they have a problem with that then don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Wants "permission to sleep with other women". Most rediculous thing any man could ever say to me.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Heres a perspective you might want to entertian,

Start to go out, even if its to the store or the library, let him believe you have a date.
I would be curious to see his take when you start going out every night for "dates"?

Even better go buy your self something really nice and tell your H your new boyfriend bought it for you.

For sure this will back fire so please take this with a grain of salt.

Your best bet is counseling.


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## floridagirl (May 22, 2011)

the guy said:


> Heres a perspective you might want to entertian,
> 
> Start to go out, even if its to the store or the library, let him believe you have a date.
> I would be curious to see his take when you start going out every night for "dates"?
> ...


this is not what he wants. i wrote it out in my post that he says a 'continuous relationship with one other person is not allowed.' in other words, i can't have a 'boyfriend' and he can't have a 'girlfriend.' only sex with different people each time.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

What he wants is to have a woman at home as an assured sex partner cook, maid and emotional support and to love him while he trolls for other women. His little plan is the dream of every male on the planet. . What he wants is male type sex and this will not appeal to you so he is not too worried tyat he will lose his convienient house frau and he is certain you will not want to cheat on him. If you did it probably would not concern him. 

He really does not sound like marriage material. Has he cheated in all of his other relationships? He is quite clever, he wants to avoid the expense of divorce and seems to be warning you that he will cheat. What better way to avoid the financial risk of divorce by telling you his plans. 

I think he is sure that you love him and are too weak or dependant financially to say no and let him know that when he wants someone else he will not have you. If you can not tell him that, you are in for a rough time. He had this planned, he knew he felt this way but hid it till he had you conered . Sounds like a deceptive user. The fact that you did not react by calling him on knowing this was his agenda before marriage and lying about his commitment to you in marriage. A woman with self respect would would have said she needed to reconsider staying married to a man who wants to cheat. Dont buy his stupid explanation he is insulting your intelligence with that explanation. 

You sound as if you will agree to this because you don't want to lose him. Believe me, he will cheat with or without your permission. Think about wheather you want to wait to go through that pain or cut your loses and get out now. Show him you are not the fool he thought you were. You have been dupped don't entertain doing this, you devalue yourself as he has done and your self esteem will nosedive. 

Get out now love is not enough he does not love you the way you love him. He finds you useful but that seems to be it. No man who loves and respects his wife wants to share her. That's what he is doing, asking you to pass your self around while he cheats. What an insult!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

floridagirl said:


> this is not what he wants. i wrote it out in my post that he says a 'continuous relationship with one other person is not allowed.' in other words, i can't have a 'boyfriend' and he can't have a 'girlfriend.' only sex with different people each time.


I can't believe you are actually expelling what he wants like it is normal and you are considering this. Why do you entertain being used ask your self. How is your self esteem- have you had a problem with you self image? Are you fearful that you will not find another man who will cherish you. Have you been emotionally abused at any time in your life or treated badly by men? 

If you think that then you will stay with this deceptive loser and it will become a self- fulfilling prophecy. If you value your self you would not be explaining his plan you would have told him what's what. Have some repect and faith in yourself as a woman. In other words Woman Up and stop letting a man define you. Decide your value, draw a line in the sand, inform any man you are involved with and if they cross it knowingly let them feel the consequences. Dont allow this husband of your to degrad you you will deeply regret it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

^I rarely agree with what Catherine says but, this is spot on. I could not have said it as eloquently as she did.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

@Floridagirl

You have to be very careful with this... I remember bringing this up in the past with old exs and even with my wife. I didn't admit it to myself or to them but the truth is that those who had agreed to it I actually lost respect for.

I looked at them different, like only out of lust, the feelings kinda changed. I no longer saw them as long term material, it's strange. Only my wife refused my offers despite my constant attempts to get her into it - simply because she's been there done that (which kinda pisses me off that I wasn't there where I could witness for myself her full blown bi-sexual self which she always denies)

Just putting it out there. I know some swingers work, but I can't deny how different it feels before and after 'consented infidelity'.


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## ladypomegranate (May 15, 2011)

There are some people who can function perfectly well in an "open marriage." But if your past ex having an EA upset you, I seriously doubt your relationship could survive another similar betrayal. It sounds to me like your husband doesn't really have that much respect for you and you should call him on that. Does he have any idea how he could hurt you (beyond the emotional pain)? He could transmit an STD to you, get another woman pregnant, the list goes on and on. 

Unfortunately, you're kind of in between a rock and a hard place now. If you tell him no he's likely going to cheat anyway. He's already got the idea in his head and that's compromised his fidelity to you. If you tell him yes there is no coming back from that decision. You destroy all trust in the relationship.

I'd suggest therapy if he's willing. He needs to be told by a professional that cheating is cheating no matter how pretty you dress it up. If that doesn't work then who knows.

Of course, the advice you get on this forum is going to be tainted by what each poster views as a "normal" relationship, but just ask yourself: when you married him did you think that was a commitment from him that he would be yours and only yours from then on? If you did, then that should answer your question.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Here is a tainted view. It sounds like you are considering this because you don't think you have options. Do this if you want to do it but for no other reason. If this is not what you want in a marriage, I don't care if you have been married ten times. Bail out before it messes you up completely.

Your choice. Don't be coercered into this if it is not what you want.


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

Hell to the no!

This only works when both people want it. You don't want it so it should be off the table. Trusting your husband after this proposition will be hard.

Don't ever stay with someone because you feel like you have no options. Your partner should not BE your life. Your partner complements your life. You can find love at any age. Living with someone who doesn't want the same things as you do will be a bummer in the long run.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Why even bother being married then?


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

I'm getting over the flu. Why would I want it to hurt when I pee, too?


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

This is such a bad idea on so many levels, it's hard to even write a response. 

What quality of female would want to be on the receiving end of your husband's sexual favors, with no relationship, no dates, and no interaction. Either a prostitute and/or someone who will mess up your life, or SURPRISE "we got carried away and we are actually in love now".

I would come down hard and tell him no deal, you will not consider it, you will not discuss it, you will be extremely upset if he ever cheats on you, and he has to decide if he's in or out of the marriage with you.


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## MikeM6 (May 20, 2011)

Hicks said:


> I would come down hard and tell him no deal, you will not consider it, you will not discuss it, you will be extremely upset if he ever cheats on you, and he has to decide if he's in or out of the marriage with you.


:iagree:

Some are quick to jump on the divorce bandwagon on here IMO, when it sounds like he just asked the question so far? How does he react when you tell him you're not comfortable with it?

Also, where in Europe did you go? I lived there for a bit also, and this sounds like it might be influenced by how they handle marriage... which is very different than expectations here.


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## KJ5000 (May 29, 2011)

To his credit at least your husband didn't try the old "Honey let's have a FMF threesome but NO you can't be with other men."
I mean at least he was fair. That said, it always cracks me up when people try to implement "RULES" for swinging.

A lot of women attach more emottion to sex than men do and the first time Mr Goodmeat made your toes curl and started sending you cards, you would start catching feelings and hubby would start to sweat and say "Uhh, let's scale this open marriage thing back a bit!" 
Tell him somebody broke you off already and it was *GREAT! *Watch how fast he changes his tune.


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## Michael610 (Sep 20, 2010)

Did he make a genuine request for your consideration, or was it more of a demand? If the latter, I agree with some of those expressing outrage. If the former, I do not believe that he should be punished for opening up and expressing his desire honestly with you. Spouses should be free to express desires to each other, knowing that it won't cause the other to declare an end to their marriage and run away. I'd chose an honest spouse who shares with me her desire to sleep with others any day over the more common type who simply does it behind my back. Still, his ability to articulate the rationale and even lay out rules understandably alarms you, but it could only mean that he'd read an article or two on open marriages.

Would it be "cheating" if you gave the green light? Disagreement on this is often more of a semantic argument: What do we mean when we use the word, "cheating"? In getting married, you presumably took vows to stand by each other "till death". Those who tell you just to leave him now are telling you to break those vows on your own without being sure that he has broken any of those same vows. After what he's told you, you might think it just a matter of time before he does break them, but it doesn't appear that he has yet, so I don't think it wise to run to a lawyer right now.

Instead, you might choose to tell your husband that you honestly don't feel comfortable with this idea right now. If you can honestly imagine that there is at least some chance of you considering some form of open marriage in the future, tell him that, but if you firmly believe that you would only be miserable in such a relationship, tell him that very clearly. Do so in a loving manner, but being very clear. The default position, after all, is that you keep your vows and engage in such intimate acts only with each other, and he should be able to accept that and make the best of it, especially only two years into the marriage.

Still, if you turn him down (for now or forever) and if you don't want to end your marriage or punish him for sharing his intimate thoughts with you, try to present it in a way that does not make him feel that you're slamming a door on a major fantasy of his. After all, fantasizing about others is extremely common. You should make it clear that you hope, especially right now, that he can try to redirect his sexual fantasies so that they include only you, but if he cannot (or if you, from the beginning, are comfortable with this), the two of you could incorporate fantasies of other partners into your own sexual play. Right now, you might not be ready for that -- in fact, you might need a period of clear devotion & dedication from him for a while -- but if you think it possible that you could at least be open to that, you should tell him at the time you turn him down. In other words, in rejecting his proposal, you might still use his fantasy to make sex & intimacy better for both of you.

There are, however, some couples in happy marriages that allow each other at least some form or level of sexual activity with others. Is there any chance that you could be happy in such a marriage? If so, you could choose to "renegotiate your vows", either in the manner your husband is proposing or under a different set of "rules" or conditions with which you might feel more comfortable. Others mentioned threesomes, swinging, etc., and in such cases, a set of very clear rules would be wise. At first, you could ease into it, trying something like "soft swinging" to see what you're comfortable with. If your husband is very careful to follow the rules the 2 of you agreed on (and you're careful too) and the level of trust between the 2 of you strengthens, you might then be willing to revisit those rules and open things further. For your marriage to continue to have real meaning, each of you should be willing to stop all activities with others if or when the other requests it. The commitment to marriage & each others' happiness should come first, and neither of you should allow such things to threaten it.

Whatever you choose, if your husband really did make a genuine request for you to consider, don't end your marriage or punish him for his honesty.


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## ARF (Jan 26, 2011)

This would have been one of those conversations for him to have with you before you got married.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## maaz3231 (May 27, 2011)

I believe open relationships can work, but only with two people who both want the same thing and who are very comfortable with eachother. If one is not into it, it won't work. Since this will not work for you, you should not allow him to try to convince you it is ok. If further on down the marriage you change your mind about it, then you can talk about it again, but for now you should make it perfectly clear to him that you are not interested in it and that it is not ok for him to sleep with other women, and if he does, let him know it will be a relationship deal breaker.


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## Prometheus Pyrphoros (Jun 16, 2011)

Too many possible and likely problems and pitfalls in this course of action he is recommending. If this is him for real and not just some fantasy of his, then I would turn the light off when I'm gone if I were you. But I am not.
Such men should explore and satisfy their sexual fantasies and desires of this type before committing to marriage as this is clearly not going to happen when married. What is the point of the union then?
Should you do this, things will become a lot more complicated then they are now.
The decision on which road to take is however a difficult one. If he desires this so much, can you expect to deny it and he being ok with it from now on? Probably not. Your relationship will then be put under additional pressure.
A frog obviously must be swallowed, maybe the biggest one should go first. Perhaps you should reconsider your options with this marriage while there's still time, it only gets harder as time goes on.
Remember, your strength comes from within. There is nothing you can't do.

--
Gloria in excelsis Deo, et in terra pax hominibus bonae voluntatis


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## Cara (Aug 15, 2010)

Look, this guy is gonna sleep with other women whether you agree to it or not. If you want a husband who will be faithful to you, divorce & try again.


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## VioletLilac (Jul 28, 2011)

I am going through something very similar right now which is why I was looking for a forum to discuss some of these ideas.

It sounds like your husband never once asked you how you felt about what he presented and dictated to you. It seems like you are still confused about it almost a month after the conversation. 
He is correct about one thing. The game plan has been changed between the two of you since you got married. But he is seemingly the one dictating all of the rules. He hasn't asked for your feedback or comments regarding his thoughts..only that you be a door mat and listen to the "New Contract" as it befits him.

In an open or polyamorous relationship, people don't typically get married and contractually obligate themselves to one another and then change the rules of marriage half way through. Most polyamorous couples reject the ideas and tennets of marriage b/c they believe two people aren't meant to be faithful to one another as is the contract with traditional marriage. They agree BEFORE the relationship starts..not BEFORE he decides when he wants to have sex with other women.
If he felt this way, he should have mentioned this before you got married so you would have a clear choice to make. Now you are married, and suddenly he wants all of the benefits of being single.

I think it stinks and is a cheap ploy to avoid giving you half of his salary if/when you decide to divorce him. He feels like it is ok to seek out casual sex as long as he tells you about a few of his escapades. What is the point of being married if you two aren't on the same page emotionally and sexually? Doesn't that defeat the point of being married? A marriage is a partnership, not him telling you how it's going to be and you meekly agreeing.

He can say that his heart belongs to you but in my experience this is a selfish male ego thing. They want a woman who is smart, creative, and intelligent to be the brood mare, have kids with, and take care of the house...yet they still desire a wanton **** who will degrade themselves for his pleasure entirely. It doesn't even matter if you try to spice up your sex..he wants something else.

I am highly sexual, very attractive, study tantra, and am quite open, but my fiance wants someone who will let him degrade them in every way imaginable. I have openly allowed him to do these things with me and he enjoys it..but the truth is..it's NEVER going to be enough. 

I hate to down porn, because I think it can be a useful tool for couples, but he has been watching it on the internet since he was 12. Those images have put a false sense of what women want into his mind. They have also led him to believe that it is ok in some way to want to have a sex toy (woman) that he just uses on the side.
He and I had a conversation about this tonight. When we got together he told me he wanted a monogamous relationship, but he still has these fantasies that he can't seem to let go of. It infects our relationship.
I have put myself in a dependent situation, as you have, to make sacrifices to move in together etc..now I don't have my old job or any way of extricating myself from this situation immediately. I have tried to get comfortable with the idea of him being with another woman. I have considered threesomes mfm or fmf and I just am, at this point, disgusted and completely turned off at being pushed to do something that I may have been keen to do at first, but after a lot of his lies, half truths, and shenanigans, I certainly don't want to have any kind of "open" relationship with him.

When he says he isn't bored with you sexually, I am willing to bet that this isn't the truth. Why would he need to find another woman to have sex with if he was completely wrapped up in you?

I am not so naive as to think that this is somewhat human behavior even if it is a base monkey instinct. What makes us rational is when we know we have these feelings but don't act on them when we have made solid commitments. 

He broke his commitment to you and is now telling you that you should accept this. If he really cares about you, he would be willing to sit down and hear your thoughts pertaining to this. He would be willing to listen to what you would like to add to the "New Contract" instead of simply explain to you how it's going to be. 

Honestly, were it me, I would suspect him of cheating behind your back already. And I rather doubt that he is going to find a woman that neither of you know and then present her to you for inspection so that you can sign off your approval of her. So are you going to meet these women who is going to have sex with at dinner, approve of them, and then allow them to go find a hotel while you trudge home empty handed to take care of the kids and house? Eff that..that is bs. 

I don't mean to wizz in your cornflakes, but it sounds like he already got to them first. I don't see how he is planning to make this work the way he is telling you it is going to work. It's a nice theory but I guarantee his "new rules" aren't going to work for either of you. There are painful realities in store for both of you if you think this is going to work.

Woman up, be tough, and either tell him this is not what you want or get out. Otherwise you are going to sacrifice your sanity, time, and self-esteem for a wasted effort.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Correct me if I am wrong, but I have heard it's a fair cultural norm that European men believe it's "normal" to have a mistress, like a rite of passage.

I am not sure why European women tolerate this or if it is even true or not.

Anyway, I don't think it sounds like a good idea at all. Too many rules, conditions, to which it sounds like he is setting.


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

Some ppl can do this and have a great marriage but they are very few and far between. I tend to agree with Catherine. My advice is your gut is giving you the answer. Follow it, that's what its there for!


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## EvanderS (Jul 1, 2011)

floridagirl said:


> basically he doesn't think it's natural for people to stay attracted to one person for their entire lives without having to tell themselves that they are or going to counseling. he says that we're all animals and that humans are not naturally monogamous and that it's only natural for people to want to sleep with others at some point. he also doesn't think that sex is always romantic or reserved for love. that sometimes it's simply to feed an appetite. he says as long as we only think of it as the other person pursing natural urges instead of as betrayal, that it won't hurt either of us.


People's basic nature is non-monogamous. It is true. However people gave up this lifestyle a long time ago because of tension, inheritance, and genetic continuity.

So it's also ingrained into people through thousands of years of practice to be faithful to their spouses.

Also... open marriages are more at risk of breakup because people fall in love with other people during sexual union.

There is more risk of disease.

Time gets cut up and people feel left out and abandoned.

Jealousy is extremely difficult to deal with.

I agree that this should have been negotiated before the marriage... not after the contract was signed.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

floridagirl said:


> this is not what he wants. i wrote it out in my post that he says a 'continuous relationship with one other person is not allowed.' in other words, i can't have a 'boyfriend' and he can't have a 'girlfriend.' only sex with different people each time.


I hate to tell you this but there is the possibility that he is having or has had sex with another woman and wants to legitimize it either because he wants to do it out in the open and/or feels guilty and wants to give you the opportunity to do the same in order to relieve his conscience. Hopefully this is not the case especially since you've already gone through the ordeal I have also experienced of an unfaithful ex-spouse. But still it would be wise if you go and do some investigative work to determine if he is or isn't having an affair.


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## marital_discord (Jul 29, 2011)

He probably already is and wants to not feel so guilty if you sleep with another man.


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## BLS2010 (Jan 17, 2012)

Well like some of the people on here, I have been married and divorced twice and I am now on my third marriage to the man who has had my heart for nine years, we have a child together and the child is 8 mind you that we split up for quite awhile and I married someone else before him and I got married well to get to the point we have not even been married for 2 years yet and about a week ago he asks me something while we were doing something and it ended up being I want to blank other women and it floored me because here I am not thinking anything was wrong with us and then he says to me lets join a swingers group and I told him why I am not enough for you he said I love you and you are I just want to make our marriage stronger and I tell him that it would ruin us because for 1 I am not the sharing type when we got married it was the happiest day and the most nervous day and mind you I have been married 3 times and this one really meant something I love him but I hate him at the same time now and I cant look at him the same anymore I want us to go for help but he wont even try I need to find a way to get this out of his mind and to try and trust him again cause right now I have no trust anymore because I feel betrayed


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

Your husbands proposal is a recipe for disaster! I would never be okay with it ever.

Good luck with convincing your husband this is not okay by all means.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dubbizle (Jan 15, 2012)

Your ex lied to you about what he was doing and this guy is being honest even thought you don't agree,so I would calm down because he could have just lied like the first time,this is called open communication where you should be able to talk about ANYTHING,I did not say agree but at least talk.I also don't think because he ask you about its a huge divorce sign or he is already fooling around. 

If you don't like his ways of spicing up your sex life,put some of your own ideas on the table.

I do know many couples who are into swinger who have been together for years,but its something both partners want.They are just regular people who you would never guess are into it.


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## The_Good_Wife (Jan 13, 2012)

Is everything else in the relationship ok? Does he feel like your sex drive doesn't match his?


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## Pathfinder (Jan 1, 2012)

@floridaGirl

My 2 cents worth as a male, oh wait sorry as a man. I would never treat my wife like this. I gave her my word that I would cherish her so why would I take that back to get some cheap thrill...oh wait...why would some cheap thrill be more important than my commitment?

If someone said that to me, after they regained consciousness I would chick them out on their a** and divorce them. I know you say you love this guy but seriously?? He stands at the alter and says all those vows but doesn't believe two mature people cannot find pleasure in themselves? Maybe I am too old fashioned but I have a number of phrases that describe people like this...

Oh and the fact that he knows your previous marriage history and then the a**hole comes up with this idea is reprehensible. WTF! This guy has no respect for you, clearly does not love you and I could care less what his issues are this is not how you treat a woman. A woman should feel safe, secure, loved and protected around her husband. You feel insecure, scared, confused and lost.

Divorce him now because this guy is going to tear you up and leave you behind


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## jezza (Jan 12, 2011)

If all you are getting at home is a lump of stale bread and a carrot then I can understand someone wanting to go out for a burger...

BUT.....if you are getting steak at home, why go out for a burger?


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## kidcanman (Dec 20, 2010)

Wow. Whelp...it seems like Floridagirl is in quite a pickle. I imagine that the advice that everybody has given her has totally changed her reality for the worse. Her husband introduced a cancerous thought into their relationship. Her relationship is quite ill indeed. There is no cure, and no recovery.

I hope you find happiness fg.


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> What he wants is to have a woman at home as an assured sex partner cook, maid and emotional support and to love him while he trolls for other women. His little plan is the dream of every male on the planet. . What he wants is male type sex and this will not appeal to you so he is not too worried tyat he will lose his convienient house frau and he is certain you will not want to cheat on him. If you did it probably would not concern him.
> 
> He really does not sound like marriage material. Has he cheated in all of his other relationships? He is quite clever, he wants to avoid the expense of divorce and seems to be warning you that he will cheat. What better way to avoid the financial risk of divorce by telling you his plans.
> 
> ...


Catherine is right with the exception of "every male on the planet." I would agree with almost every male but there are a few exceptions. I am one of them. I have turned girls away more than once. I just could not do that to my wife.


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## Wantsmore (Sep 13, 2011)

I have to weight in here for a moment, not to be judgmental or to agree or disagree. But this is my thoughts on it.

I think it is wrong for either side to say this is the way it is going to be and that is that. My way or the highway. I can agree with the wife's point of view and my wife has just had the same conversation with me. I am a very happily married man to a great woman for 15 years. Our relationship is more then 20 years long. There isn't anything I wouldn't do for her. I do take our commitment to one another very seriously. And I completely understand her views on what outside playtime means to her. She doesn't share the same outlook I do when it comes to this either.

I had the same views on the whole thing up until the last couple of years. We just spoke about this last week and her reaction to it was very much the same as what everyone here has to say. I told her that I am secure enough in our relationship that her having another man with me present is not cheating. IF both partners agree to the arrangement and there are set boundaries. I would be happy to introduce her to a 3 some with MFM as she would be the one in control of the situation and would be the one making the decisions. I have wanted to bring this up long before but didn't know how to bring it up.

I don't know what has changed my views on this over the last couple years but I have talked to enough people that do this and they all have very healthy, strong emotional relationships in their marriage. Kind of where we have been for many years. The thing most people confuse is the feeling that love and sex can not be separated. They most certainly can and the human brain is wired this way. 

Have any of you never had a sexual encounter that didn't lead to getting married. Most guys can say they have picked a girl up at a bar or at the beach or where ever and had sex with her and never spoke to her again. I know a lot of girls I used to work with did this on a regular basis. Pick a guy up and see if she can get some. So it goes both ways. Sex and love is different. If there is a deep seated love, respect and commitment to one another then sexual playtime once in a while with others as long as it is in the boundaries of what both can agree to then there should be no issues. When it starts to be an issue then it isn't right.

I would never force the issue on to her. My hope is that by talking openly about it and not condemning the other for speaking about it that one day she may see what I mean, and see out love and the sex we have can be separate. Not saying we would take that step but I have opened the doors and if she was to come around one day and say I want to give it a try I will be ready.


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## andeypandy (Jan 19, 2012)

floridagirl said:


> this is not what he wants. i wrote it out in my post that he says a 'continuous relationship with one other person is not allowed.' in other words, i can't have a 'boyfriend' and he can't have a 'girlfriend.' only sex with different people each time.



Still do what the guy is saying.

This is what I would do if i was ever in your situation.

Go out on your dates, dress very sexy for them, make sure you have a date every night and that your husband no longer gets to see you. I would advise you also plan activities during the time that you cant go out on your date..and make him feel like you are going on the date.

Your husband in theory will start to miss you. He wont be getting a glimpse of you because you'll either be working (assuming you have a job) or you'll be out on your activities or dates.

There is no way he will have a date for every night and it will give him the opportunity to THINK about where you are when you are gone. This may make him realise what A STUPID idea that was and what he is in the process of losing.


There is no counselling for this, you will just spend heaps of money and it wont fix anything. He has openly told you he wants to **** other people. If you deny him, he will either not do it to keep you happy or he will do it and lie to you.


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## The_Good_Wife (Jan 13, 2012)

Let him do it!
If my husband asked me anything like that I would not get upset, I would just give him permission to do it. No doubt about that.
If he actually went ahead and did it I would be out the next second and send him divorce papers. What the heck???? Men sometimes just talk to talk. They don't really mean things they say. They just want to see our reaction. If yours actually means and does what he is asking for then divorce his ass.


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## nicky1 (Jan 20, 2012)

His heart is no longer in the marriage, he is always looking for that other person , he says one things and secretly wants another, he wants the stability you provide but also wants to be like a single dog again, do you want to have that in your husband, Be firm and tell him to stop being like an animal and focus on you, if not then go and dont look back, dont believe anything he says trying to justify that behaviour.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

The_Good_Wife said:


> Let him do it!
> If my husband asked me anything like that I would not get upset, I would just give him permission to do it. No doubt about that.
> If he actually went ahead and did it I would be out the next second and send him divorce papers. What the heck???? Men sometimes just talk to talk. They don't really mean things they say. They just want to see our reaction. If yours actually means and does what he is asking for then divorce his ass.


 :iagree:
Call his bluff. Anyone deserves better.


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## marriedinpei (Jan 15, 2012)

Oh my, the whole open marriage thing, the whole lets have a trial separation so we can "date" other people notion ...

Variety should be within marriage - toys, lingerie, games, husband-wife phone sex when on a business trip, role play [the handsome cop [me] who pulls over the buxom nurse [my wife] ...


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## spyece (Jan 21, 2012)

I don't think that's a good idea, i would never even think of getting along with other girl when i am in married with one, also the though of my wife sleeping with someone else will just kill me inside. but then again that's just my opinion.


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## L.M.COYL (Nov 16, 2010)

Wantsmore said:


> I have to weight in here for a moment, not to be judgmental or to agree or disagree. But this is my thoughts on it.
> 
> I think it is wrong for either side to say this is the way it is going to be and that is that. My way or the highway. I can agree with the wife's point of view and my wife has just had the same conversation with me. I am a very happily married man to a great woman for 15 years. Our relationship is more then 20 years long. There isn't anything I wouldn't do for her. I do take our commitment to one another very seriously. And I completely understand her views on what outside playtime means to her. She doesn't share the same outlook I do when it comes to this either.
> 
> ...


Although I don't agree with you, I do agree that people on this topic can be judgmental. I bet those who are the most judgmental have been cheated on already!

But seriously, when I was younger (so much younger than today!) I felt the same way: sex and marriage weren't necessarily the same. However, as I've aged, I've begun to mellow out regarding my rampaging desires. I mean I am still rampaging, but I scale back my ambitions and release them in controlled and utterly moderated way whereby my wife feels both involved and focussed on. Make her the center of your world and she will do just about anything. If you really want to have sex with someone else, turn out the lights. I think that using your imagination now and then is ok but you prolly might want to remember why it is you married the woman in the first place.

As to the original poster, what can I say but, did you cheat with your present husband while he was with someone else?


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

I know this is a shock to you and your husband probably should have had this conversation with you before you got married, but...

He is technically right. Monogamy is not natural to humans or any other animals. A minority of us manage to be monogamous over the course of our lives and there is no evidence that any of the 'socially' monogamous animals are sexually monogamous. This goes for females as well as males (who do you think the men are sleeping with?).

He is being straight with you. As far as you know he hasn't just gone out there and had affairs. He is talking to you in a mature way. Any mature, adult approach to any subject should be given a hearing in my opinion. 

Please, think about what he is saying and why he is saying it. Talk to him about this, don't just dismiss him. Don't listen to the sexist ranters who tell you he is just a 'typical male'. That is a simplistic response that won't help you to understand anything. Give him a chance, hear him out, find out why he is saying this and why now. Be open-minded, please, you are likely to learn a lot more about the man you married that way.

The key to a good marriage is communication.


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## gonefishin (Oct 7, 2011)

floridagirl

Tell your husband that this makes you very uncomfortable and if he has any respect for you he will set up a meeting with a MC to discuss further.

Why does he need more women in his life?


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## gonefishin (Oct 7, 2011)

the guy said:


> Heres a perspective you might want to entertian,
> 
> Start to go out, even if its to the store or the library, let him believe you have a date.
> I would be curious to see his take when you start going out every night for "dates"?
> ...


Good idea! Go away for the week end. If he asked where you are going tell him some rich guy wants to fly you to Paris for the weekend. Also tell him you are going to write the rule book. Why does he get to write the rule book.


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## duchesspink (Jan 28, 2012)

apologies as i've not read all of the pages but i'm outraged on your behalf.

Yes if you are a genuinely open couple that is happy to have an open marriage, but no if it makes either one of you uncomfortable.

What I am thinking is that your husband has seen or met someone that he wants to have sex with so he's proposing this to you as his "get out of jail" card.

Tell him that many couples have been married 40+ years and manage to keep things fresh in the bedroom without resorting to having sex with others.

He's a joke trying to put conditions onto his proposal as if to make it seem not so unusual ie not the same partner etc.

tell him to shape up or ship out


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## hildegain (Apr 22, 2012)

I see so much closed-mindedness about this that I just had to say something. I'm sick and tired of people saying **** like "he just wants to cheat" or "he wants to have his cake and eat it" and NO it's not about that!

Not every two people are the same, he has expressed his position and wants an honest response. "I don't feel comfortable with that, I'm sorry" is a response he can take, he wants to be open and able to share everything inside and outside of the relationship, believe it or not but some people are perfectly happy with sharing absolutely everything in their relationship.

My only advice to the person asking the question is this: be honest and open. Do not judge, do not get angry and do not overreact. Just be honest and express your exact feelings, nothing good ever came of being over-reactive. If you really love your husband, tell him everything and tell him that you can't entertain the idea of having sex with other partners, it's then up to him to accept your feelings.

I don't want to sound like an ******* but everyone else that came here to judge and overreact can just shut up. The only real thing you can do in this kind of situation is be honest and vocal.

johnnycomelately was right on many points, the fact that your husband spoke to you about this openly is a GOOD thing, if he were interested in cheating and did not care at all about you nor your feelings he would not have spoken to you of this at all. He was also right on the subject of sexism, my girlfriend was the one that suggested some similar things to me a few months ago. Understanding and conversation is the only way through something like this.

In short: One word - Communication.


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## Mr B (Feb 6, 2009)

He probably has no plans to leave, he just wants a little variety so he can get that rush of high sexual desire you get with someone new. I approached my wife with this same proposition 25 years ago just after we stopped having sex. Like you she refused which meant that neither of us has had sex in all the years since then. If you think that might happen in your marriage I'd go for it. Better to share him sexually than to have no sex at all.


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

I realize tonight is a slow night, but this thread is about 3 months old. Is there a reason it's being added to now? The OP has probably long since decided what to do.


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## RNTracee1 (Oct 9, 2012)

Tourchwood said:


> have you guys tried swinging or three somes?
> may be that would be a deal for both of you?
> 
> are you open to it?
> this way you know what your husband is doing.


:iagree:I have to agree with this answer. My husband also brought this up and at first I was upset. But then I thought about it and set up MY OWN RULES of what I would and would not do, and what I would and would not allow him to do. He was happy that I was at least open to the idea. And believe it or not, I was not jealous at all watching him.:smthumbup: It was quite exciting. We kept intercourse for us only, but were open to anything up to but excluding intercourse. 
What we did was, with another couple, we met them, had dinner and drinks, played pool and got to know them. After a couple of times of that we went to their place and just did watch/watch for the first time. The next time we did light touching. It never went any farther with them however we met another couple and did more with them, including more bisexual play too. As a woman, I am not into going down on a woman, so it didn't get that far, but what I did do, I really enjoyed. I find that I really enjoy watching my husband go down on a man. I know that sounds odd, but it is a BIG turn on for me. You may find that you are more excited by it than you think.
My husband and I both agree that we wouldn't have affairs on our own, like you think your husband is asking for permission to do. I would bring up the idea of doing it together. If he is not open to that, then you may need to find a new husband. Any husband who wants to go off and have sex without his wife present, I would question: what does he want to do that he doesn't want you to see? Hubby and I enjoy seeing the enjoyment of the other.


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## justbidingtime (Sep 25, 2012)

RNTracee1 said:


> :iagree:I have to agree with this answer. My husband also brought this up and at first I was upset. But then I thought about it and set up MY OWN RULES of what I would and would not do, and what I would and would not allow him to do. He was happy that I was at least open to the idea. And believe it or not, I was not jealous at all watching him.:smthumbup: It was quite exciting. We kept intercourse for us only, but were open to anything up to but excluding intercourse.
> What we did was, with another couple, we met them, had dinner and drinks, played pool and got to know them. After a couple of times of that we went to their place and just did watch/watch for the first time. The next time we did light touching. It never went any farther with them however we met another couple and did more with them, including more bisexual play too. As a woman, I am not into going down on a woman, so it didn't get that far, but what I did do, I really enjoyed. *I find that I really enjoy watching my husband go down on a man*. I know that sounds odd, but it is a BIG turn on for me. You may find that you are more excited by it than you think.
> My husband and I both agree that we wouldn't have affairs on our own, like you think your husband is asking for permission to do. I would bring up the idea of doing it together. If he is not open to that, then you may need to find a new husband. Any husband who wants to go off and have sex without his wife present, I would question: what does he want to do that he doesn't want you to see? Hubby and I enjoy seeing the enjoyment of the other.


Troll!!!!!!!:scratchhead:

How the heck does someone find a thread from 2011, with no posts since April 21, 2012 and then responds?????

Well I had to read and all seemed pretty straightforward until what I bolded above......

On to the next thread......


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## KaySara (May 25, 2014)

@JustBidingTime --
What are you upset about? That someone commented on an old thread? Even if the OP isn't around anymore, LOTS of people probably look for subject headings that interest them (or the "similar" post shows up at the bottom of the page). 

Is there something wrong with adding to a thread that interests you even if the OP isn't still active? Don't people "bump" posts all the time that they would like to see generate some conversation??

Second point:
are you saying that there is something wrong or suspicious about a woman who enjoys watching her fella go down on another man? If you don't like it, don't do it. If you think she is making it up, you may need to "get out more" or do some reading. it's a BIG world out there.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

yuk........


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## bkaydezz (Jul 9, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> yuk........


Exactly...where is the respect and loyalty? Shet....

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## catfan (Jan 12, 2013)

*Re: Re: Husband wants permission to sleep with other women, says I can sleep with oth*



Scannerguard said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, but I have heard it's a fair cultural norm that European men believe it's "normal" to have a mistress, like a rite of passage.
> 
> I am not sure why European women tolerate this or if it is even true or not.
> 
> Anyway, I don't think it sounds like a good idea at all. Too many rules, conditions, to which it sounds like he is setting.


I'm from the Netherlands and NO that is not normal! Neither is the surrounding countries. I don't know if it's more acceptable in southern Europe though.


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## catfan (Jan 12, 2013)

*Re: Re: Husband wants permission to sleep with other women, says I can sleep with oth*



MikeM6 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Some are quick to jump on the divorce bandwagon on here IMO, when it sounds like he just asked the question so far? How does he react when you tell him you're not comfortable with it?
> 
> Also, where in Europe did you go? I lived there for a bit also, and this sounds like it might be influenced by how they handle marriage... which is very different than expectations here.


Where in Europe did you live? In the Netherlands marriage is handled the same way, and cheating is not normal.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

There are swinging clubs in Europe. The papers write about them. You know how it works. Couples go to some house and pay a fee to enter. Single men not allowed. People wander round and hook up. I guess you can watch. Don't know if there are private rooms. The papers that interview ask people if they are happy or not.

For sure everyone knows that some people are having fun while others are not. Of course it must be a special kind of Hell to talk your wife into it because you are bored and then to suddenly witness her getting it and enjoying it more than you imagined she would.

Also, sexual intercourse, bad as that might be to see, would be one thing. To see your spouse kissing another person passionately during intercourse would be a new level of Hell.

And to top it off, just as your life was crumbling, what if the a guy standing next to you with potato chip breath said that his wife was really turned on by what she was seeing and wanted to have sex with you and then pointed at her. You might look over at her, find her ok, but not as attractive as your wife and realize you were not able to get an erection.

I don't doubt there are people who really love each other and can handle open marriages but they are not the majority.


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## Zouz (May 28, 2014)

A good idea would be to set a trap where you will be the other women and he doesn't know it ...

disguise and be his B.... ; change your style too...

keep it a secret and after a day or two , do the same at home ....
good luck .

If Am waered and request smthing like what he did from my wife ; I will adore her if she does it ....

best


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## catfan (Jan 12, 2013)

There are swinging clubs or gatherings in America too, I've seen it on t.v. 
That a minority of people like to do this, doesn't mean marriage is taken more lightly here at all.
Then I can just as lightly state marriage is taken less serious in America, as there are strip clubs in most towns, here they are very rare.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Catfan,

I don't mean to suggest Europe is less serious about monogamous marriage than Europe.

Many phenomenon are identical. The US has Spring Break in Florida, where promiscuity is contextual.

European young people go sunny holiday resorts and repudiate their normal life patterns.

Alcohol is a common feature of the pilgrimage to orgy.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## Michael610 (Sep 20, 2010)

KaySara said:


> @JustBidingTime --
> What are you upset about? That someone commented on an old thread? Even if the OP isn't around anymore, LOTS of people probably look for subject headings that interest them (or the "similar" post shows up at the bottom of the page).
> 
> Is there something wrong with adding to a thread that interests you even if the OP isn't still active? Don't people "bump" posts all the time that they would like to see generate some conversation??
> ...


*KaySara, I agree completely with everything you say!* I agree that it's rather strange that some people would have any problem with adding comments to an old thread. After all, sometimes you come across an older thread that addresses your current concerns more closely than any other. Relevance trumps chronology.

I also think you're right in addressing his reaction to her statement about enjoying watching her guy go down on another man. While I would never suggest that most women would or could be into that, I hardly think it shocking that a significant minority of women think it's hot. After all, would many doubt the veracity of a male poster who said that he gets turned on by seeing his wife/gf go down on another woman? Skeptics would number few to none - most likely none.

*When it comes to sex, if you don't have at least one turn-on that - if shared on this site - would result in your receiving one or more unproductively judgmental responses like "Ewww!" or "Yuck!", you are not normal. Your lack of any such turn-ons means that you are, in fact, the real sexual freak! *


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

floridagirl said:


> this is not what he wants. i wrote it out in my post that he says a 'continuous relationship with one other person is not allowed.' in other words, i can't have a 'boyfriend' and he can't have a 'girlfriend.' only sex with different people each time.


I Am A Broken Record

http://www.amazon.com/Opening-Up-Creating-Sustaining-Relationships/dp/157344295X

My recollection is that this does not just sell the up side but talks about things like when one partner pressures the other unwilling partner. 

Learn. And live.

Some of us do things like (though your husband's model is what I perceive to be the most risky) this and thrive. Many don't.

Good luck to you.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

SHOCKING..... Its not natural to stay attracted to one man/ woman for the rest of his life, he says...... yes it is, and its called MARRIAGE. 

Well, I am gobsmacked, he wants permission from you to sleep around with other women, when the day comes he gets bored with you, and wants a change, well what an arsehole.

If my husband came home and said to me what your husband said to you, I would take my rings off put them down upon the table, and tell him that i want a divorce..... Then he can go and shag whoever he likes.....

And the ghoul of your husband actually laying rules down to you about how the cheating, and deceiving is gonna go.

Are you sure hes also not already doing it??.... whatever I am not sure this is somebody i would want to stay married to... he has it in him to be unfaithful... I would be worried.


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

melw74 said:


> SHOCKING..... Its not natural to stay attracted to one man/ woman for the rest of his life, he says...... yes it is, and its called MARRIAGE.
> .


yeah I suppose some people have this problem. And naturally when things get repetitive and routine, you can get bored. But there is NO REASON whatsoever that you can not stay horny for your marriage partner. You both have to work at it a little.

Lets say your wife has gotten a lot of cellulite in her thighs, and it turns you off. Well, some obvious tactics....buy her a bunch of hot pantyhose, get her to wear a bunch of sexy skirts that cover the thighs but show her lower legs (maybe with her wearing thigh high sexy hose), have sex with the lights dimmed a little so you can feel but not see too well, have her wear a lot of sun dresses that show off her figure but not the "details", get one of those stretchy mesh body suits for her to wear in bed...and on and on. With a little work you can easily ignore the specific body feature or mannerism, and pay attention to only her sexy features. 

Same for guys, have a big gut? Wear a nice shirt and some hot colored shorts....ditch the tighty whities....

the point is you can CHOOSE to be horny for your spouse, just so long as the spouse is willing to at least go along for the ride. I don't care if you have been married for 40 years...it can be done.


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## thebadmanicure (Jul 31, 2015)

*On the flip side*

I know that this is an old thread but I felt compelled to respond.

My marriage is recently open at my request after fifteen years together and I am a woman. 

Our sex life was in the gutter for years after all the things that can come up in an LTR. Lots of feelings and history. Plenty of therapy alone and as a couple. He was never able to be very emotionally intimate with me and in turn, after years of trying to get what I needed I just kind let that go. It's hard for me not to feel like my heart is being held by someone and to remain physically intimate with them. I am terrible at laying next to someone who can't love me on my level at least some of the time. Especially if I fee as though I go out of my way to ,meet their needs. 

That's basically it. The whole story in a nutshell. My husband had his needs met including sex for many years past the point that I felt comfortable with it. Beyond that I still made sure his needs were met but took my lady parts "off the table" and found other ways to satisfy his desires till my own wants and needs became something I couldn't face alone anymore. I did that for many years and it damn near killed me. I'm a passionate person and in my husbands own way and a much more physical level, I suppose he is too. I can't meet him on his level any longer nor will I attempt to.

That said he is my best friend, my chosen family, my business partner , my doggy daddy. The idea of divorce leaves us both devastated. We like coming home to eachother. We like sharing meals and cracking jokes and getting in the car to explore. We like formulating plans and going for long walks and hugging in the kitchen. I love his family. Somehow it works for us. I feel proud of us for maintaining our commitment to eachother while opening ourselves up for something unconventional. 

It takes all kinds. That said, if you feel like the idea of opening your relationship is going to break you or ruin the foundation you strove to build, talk about it. Go to couples therapy. If the first one doesn't work out, see another and another till you find the one that can help you both feel held and heard. 

Best of luck to you both.


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