# Another thread on "Is It Too Late?"



## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Various threads exist on the topic, but like everyone else, I suppose I feel my situation is a bit unique:

Real brief background for thise who don't know me: WW had a long-term EA, somewhat PA (kissing & some groping, apparently no sex). After DDay (May 5) and initial trickle-truth, WW has really done everything she can to be the 'heavy lifter', showing true remorse & regret, immediate NC, full transparency, willing to sign post-nup/polygraph... really has worked hard. In MC, and her into IC. Day-by-day, and week-by-week we've been through the gamut - anger, fear, hysterical bonding, sex has been better than ever at times, and real transparent openness between us. I've continued to have my blow-ups, even left the home for a night, but trying - mostly for the sake of my young son (6 yo).

What I'm seeking feedback on from those who have been there and gotten through it successfully is this:

There's just a very real issue that it's clear I just do not feel the same depth anymore... Yeah I love her or I wouldn't be here, but obviously I don't and can't trust her; I'm wounded and scarred for life; I think I am overly trigger-sensitive, especially when it comes to kissing her (it never fails to enter my mind that she did this with OM... when in fact before her A, I was the one more into kissing than she was. Now, she's more into it...) I do not feel she's faking, lying, or acting about this. Again, the sex is better than it ever was before, we're more open and giving and exploratory. Of course I do not want that to stop progressing, but mentally I'm wary and have even conveyed I do not want to give any false 'hope' or message that this is all going to be OK because the sex is good... 

I'm concerned because my feelings - despite her doing everything 'right' by the book for a WW looking for successful R - just aren't totally *there* deeply-enough for what I know I'm capable of (and held for her before), and now I'm wondering if they ever will return to a level I need? And/or, do I need that level for a successful, happy marriage? I want this, to be clear, but not sure I can have it with her -- or anyone.

I know I'm setting up for the naysayers + the believers to fire away... I probably need to hear it all.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

You're on a path to recovery tht may or may not include her.

How long was the affair? And how long has it been since discovered?

It takes years for a lot of people to regain the trust and affection they once had for their cheating spouse. 

I have no idea how long it takes a cheater to return to that level affection as well.

Your hesitancy is a normal protection of yourself from further harm by your wife.

Maybe a part of you knows there is more to reveal?


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

It wouldn’t be surprising if you’ve shut down your emotions as some way of protecting yourself against further pain and maybe that’s why you don’t have the depth of feeling anymore. I think fear of further emotional pain has a lot to do with it. There are lots of automatic systems in our body, the emotional system is one of them.

Maybe unknowingly you may have erected new boundaries around yourself as far as your wife is concerned. Boundaries of self-protection. There’s also a matter of grieving, again unknowingly you may well be grieving what you thought you had in the past and what you thought the future was going to be. It might be worth looking up the grieving process.

Your wife has changed and she is changed. She is not the woman you thought she was or is. It will take you time to get to know the new woman in your life, while at the same time you are probably somewhat afraid to love her in the ways you did in the past.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

I of course worry there's more to reveal, but very much do not believe there is. Trickle truth at DDay (6 month EA, turned into an on-again/off-again PA as they tried to be 'just friends'. I know the guy, and when he's also said it was non-sexual when he could have said it was just to be hurtful...)

Yes I'm grieving


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

2xloser said:


> I of course worry there's more to reveal, but very much do not believe there is. Trickle truth at DDay (6 month EA, turned into an on-again/off-again PA as they tried to be 'just friends'. I know the guy, and when he's also said it was non-sexual when he could have said it was just to be hurtful...)
> 
> Yes I'm grieving


I'm confused. You say it was non-sexual but it was a PA for some part of the affair?

That is the definition of a physical affair. They had sexual contact.

I would not trust anything out of either of their mouths if I were you. 

If you are to recover trust and affection with your wife, he has to be gone. Get him out of your head.

Your interpretation of his motivations can be completely wrong. He doesn't care if he hurts you or not. If that were so, he wouldn't have been screwing around with your wife at any level of sexual contact.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

There were apparently several making-out sessions/kissing occurrences + some groping, but no sex (oral or otherwise). Of course I'll never really know, but it is what I believe at this point.

He is pretty well gone from my mind, actually. During the uncovering discovery period, he texted me once after I'd told his wife. In that text he too claimed it was 'non-sexual'. I think he'd rather hurt me than not, which is why if it were sexual I think he'd have tried to rub my nose in it.

After ~6 months of EA, the kissing started and was on & off for about a year or so. It had ended months before I discovered it.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Not advice, just an observation but I often wonder that of those that reconcile with the BS... if it's harder because of the fact that the BS in and of themself is the trigger. 

Divorce or reocnciliation though--both are difficult and have completely different paths. But no matter which path is taken, infidelity will leave a scar no matter what.


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## Numb-badger (May 18, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> if it's harder because of the fact that the BS in and of themself is the trigger.


Absolutely.
There are times I look at my WW and think, for no obvious reason, WTF were you doing?!? Then I get angry and have to control it again. :s


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Numb-badger said:


> Absolutely.
> There are times I look at my WW and think, for no obvious reason, WTF were you doing?!? Then I get angry and have to control it again. :s


"you" in this case meaning her AND myself.
Yeah... ...and round and round it goes...


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## Numb-badger (May 18, 2011)

It's part of a healing process mate. I am now at a point that I can generally control my anger, the mind movies have all but stopped and I can think clearly most of the time. 
That you say you feel you're just not "there" is evidence of a defensive wall. I think your problem is not that you don't feel "there", but rather you're putting too much thought and emphasis on being "there" rather than allowing your wife to do the work with you, give yourself time to heal and let your own form of "there" appear naturally.
You're putting pressure on yourself at one of your most vunerable moments. Just kick off your shoes, take a break and let things develop over time. Don't place yourself under the cosh just yet. Give yourself some breathing space to heal.

All the best

N-B


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

2X - I thought I would respond since my DDAy was the exact same day as yours (happy Cinco De Mayo mother f*ckers!). 

My wife's EA never went PA at all, so my situation may be easier than yours. You can see my thread on here about how it almost feels like it was part of a nightmare from a past time, like not real. My W has done some heavy lifting as well. My triggers have been bouncing off more and more and we are doing well. You wanted someone in your situation that had some success to respond....

First, you need to spend a lot less time on this board. It keeps you wallowing. Frankly, I feel it is a place to vent at first, get good advice, then leave and recover for awhile, come back when you are in a healthier place and can give some advice of your own. This is where I am right now.

A vacation with the wife really helps. We had a prescheduled trip planned, went on it, and it was phenomenal. Creating new, positive memories, just the two of us. I know this might not be feasible but try to do this if you can.

Also, when you speak to her, try to be compassionate and open for back-and-forth. You will get a lot more info from her this way and make you both more comfortable. She is hurting too. If you are too hard headed and demand all the healing be one-directional, it won't work. Work on helping each other get through the "situation" at hand. You'll catch a lot more flies with honey than with vinegar. Trust me, I tried both.

Good luck to you. I hope your pain subsides quickly.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Thanks you guys. I hear you, and appreciate it. I get the honey vs vinegar, time off the board, and allowing myself the room & space. Thanks.

Yet, there's a real follow-on here: when on your vacation, or 'letting it happen naturally' did you not feel like you were essentially being fake with her? Smiling and looking into her eyes, her back in hope and wonderment, but in your head the little voice: "you did this with him, too and simply didn't want to with me, dammit! Why, why why?"....and if I let it pass and it evolves to a kiss, then I sometimes fight pulling away, almost in disgust, knowing she did *that* with him too, while telling and showing me she wasn't all that into kissing.... on and on and on it goes. Did it not for you? Or more importantly, how did you fight it off? Does the 'fake it till you make it' saying apply?

Again, thanks much. I'm struggling a bit here and don't want to...


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

2xloser said:


> Thanks you guys. I hear you, and appreciate it. I get the honey vs vinegar, time off the board, and allowing myself the room & space. Thanks.
> 
> Yet, there's a real follow-on here: when on your vacation, or 'letting it happen naturally' did you not feel like you were essentially being fake with her? Smiling and looking into her eyes, her back in hope and wonderment, but in your head the little voice: "you did this with him, too and simply didn't want to with me, dammit! Why, why why?"....and if I let it pass and it evolves to a kiss, then I sometimes fight pulling away, almost in disgust, knowing she did *that* with him too, while telling and showing me she wasn't all that into kissing.... on and on and on it goes. Did it not for you? Or more importantly, how did you fight it off? Does the 'fake it till you make it' saying apply?
> 
> Again, thanks much. I'm struggling a bit here and don't want to...


Happened alot. Still does sometimes. I look at her and wonder why. I was no good at faking it, she took it in stride though knowing that if I was going to stay I had an inner battle to fight.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

2xloser, my situation is similar to yours but I'm almost 13 months out. My WWs EA was a short term EA and nothing physical due to the distance involved. But it hurts nonetheless because like you, its hurts worse because this is the second time I've been burned in a second marriage. 

What I do know is that the triggers come far less often now, she's doing the heavy lifting. Yet, somehow the spark that I held for her is just not there. I feel numb. The trust has been rebuilding and I rarely check now and my gut is not screaming anymore. I'm quite sure of that. So now, I have very little incentive to dump a 22 year marriage, pull the trigger on D, break up the family and financial devastation. All I can do now is continue to heal and fake it till I make it I guess.

You've done a lot of healing in only 2 months. You're doing a helluva lot better than I was doing at that point in time. The emotional roller coaster will start to slow down eventually, and the highs and the dips won't be as extreme as time goes by and your WW does the heavy lifting and regains back some of your trust. It doesnt feel like it right now, but it will. You will heal. I certainly wish I had found sites like these when this first happened. For the first 2 months I was in agony and couldnt think straight. You may even heal at a faster rate than I did. In fact, I think you're way ahead at this point in time.


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## Numb-badger (May 18, 2011)

2xloser said:


> Thanks you guys. I hear you, and appreciate it. I get the honey vs vinegar, time off the board, and allowing myself the room & space. Thanks.
> 
> Yet, there's a real follow-on here: when on your vacation, or 'letting it happen naturally' did you not feel like you were essentially being fake with her? Smiling and looking into her eyes, her back in hope and wonderment, but in your head the little voice: "you did this with him, too and simply didn't want to with me, dammit! Why, why why?"....and if I let it pass and it evolves to a kiss, then I sometimes fight pulling away, almost in disgust, knowing she did *that* with him too, while telling and showing me she wasn't all that into kissing.... on and on and on it goes. Did it not for you? Or more importantly, how did you fight it off? Does the 'fake it till you make it' saying apply?
> 
> Again, thanks much. I'm struggling a bit here and don't want to...


At times, yes. There are times when I have to turn away in disgust, there are times when I can't look at her. I sometimes think, 'Why, why, why?' But I can't let those thoughts rule my life. Sometimes I wonder whether I'm faking it, but when she spends every spare hour clinging to me, wanting to be with me, allowing me to be hurt when it appears, attending the MC with enthusiasm, taking extra time off work to spend more time with me, telling me how much she wants us to renew the vows and get another wedding band (I threw the last one away) over the next few years (she knows it will NOT be a quick process), concentrating all her efforts on the children and myself and telling me how much she loves me, I owe it to myself and the kids to put the anger aside and really give it a go. 
Those doubts and pangs of anger are natural 2xl. You may have a great day out with your wife, yet one thought may jump in and try to ruin the whole moment - don't worry about it. When this happens I won't allow it to anger me, but I WILL allow it to hurt. At which point I go a little quiet as I process it. When my wife asks what's up I tell her that I'm hurting a little and pull her closer. This lets her know that I'm upset, but I'm NOT pushing her away. This prevents any tension that would make the situation worse.
The pangs are fewer and further between. They still happen at the most unexpected moments, but they no longer dictate the pace of my life.

Best wishes 2XL

N-B


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

On this vacation, I did not feel I was faking it. Like Mayhem (you are a legend on this board, BTW), her A was only EA and not long term, so the kissing stuff doesn't apply.

But on feelings, no, not faking. I have had 16 years of marriage with her - which dwarfs what she had with the OM. I find it pretty easy to reach back and remember the good and draw from that. If you are really trying to R, you need to draw from the good parts as much as possible until you heal.

If that's called faking it, then I guess that's faking it.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Gosh, I'm doing the same thing. Just trying to make everyday a little better than the day before. I know I loved him, pre affair,but post affair, I see things so differently. Maybe we both were faking instead (pre affair) .

I use to feel really proud to be married to my husband. I use to tease him that those other girls didn't realize what they past up. I use to defend him thick or thin if I needed to, say against sibs or if he felt he made a incorrect decisions. I don't have that inside me anymore... and it makes me sad . 

~sammy


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## Sparkles422 (Jun 3, 2011)

I admire you immensely that you're trying. I don't know where you have the strength from.

I know, I think, I couldn't trust again and that is what destroyed it for me or would have given the option of reconciliation. But that was never remotely in the pic. stbxh too egotistical (he had ED episode) and proud and runs away (he had EA which is still ongoing).

My divorce is is in 5 days.

Best wishes for courage and love.


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