# Wife mishears what I say



## Ram81 (Sep 22, 2020)

We have some serious miscommunication in our relationship. This is not just your typical I said ‘A’ but she interpreted it as ‘B’. This is a constant issue where I will say something and she will hear different words and if I try to tell her that is not what I said I am immediately accused of lying and gaslighting. She says I don’t remember exactly what I said and that I’m changing my words to make myself sound better. She has even convinced me a few times that maybe I didn’t say it how I thought I did. And maybe she was right. The thing is I am very aware of this now and aware of how sensitive she can be so I often choose my words very precisely in order to avoid being misunderstood. And still she will tell me that I said something I know 100% I did not say. I am then stuck between just agreeing I said whatever crappy thing she said that I said (which would be a lie), or I stick to my guns and repeat what I said, which always leads to accusations of lying and gaslighting. This happens on a very regular basis and I am really struggling with how to move past it. I have been trying in vain for years to have her understand me but it’s getting nowhere and now that she learned the word gaslighting it’s thrown around all the time. Every time my recollection of something doesn’t match hers exactly I’m gaslighting. Gaslighting is systemic and abusive and is used to manipulate and control a person not a minor disagreement about your recollection. I really don’t want to spend the rest of my life having to agree with someone who is telling me what I said and why I said it (which bugs me even more) when they are totally wrong but I also love my wife and family and couldn’t imagine being without them. I’m at a loss. We have tried therapy at my request a couple of times but she just feels attacked and it almost breaks us up. Maybe I’m too in the weeds to see the obvious. I’m hoping some of you have advice or have been through this situation yourselves. It’s all making me feel like I’m going nuts. Thanks for reading.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Ram81 said:


> I’m hoping some of you have advice


Yep. Stop saying anything. Make it "yes" or "no". Do what you want, when you want, with complete and utter disregard for her or her opinion. Do not encourage
her to take "therapy", she knows quite well what she is doing.

Just tell her "...if you want me to talk to you, then you will STOP this childish behavior. Until you stop, fuhgedaboudit....."

You are married to a controlling and selfish person who has developed ways to manipulate others through "twist" and "spin".


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

The fact that attending therapy together-- two different times--- almost broke you up because she felt "attacked" leads me to believe she is the one who has some serious issues, that came to light in therapy, and she didn't like that and refused to work on the issues. Is that what happened?


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Why is she accusing you of gaslighting? That is really a term used when a cheater tries to bent the truth to cover their tracks.


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## Golden Age (May 17, 2020)

In sounds to me like your wife is very insecure. Did she grow up in an environment where one, or both, parents were very critical? This often leads to someone being constantly on the defensive and feeling criticized in adult life even though the intention of what was actually said to them was completely different.


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## C.C. says ... (Aug 1, 2020)

Ram81 said:


> Maybe I’m too in the weeds to see the obvious


Maybe she needs a hearing aid? I know someone like this, but they can’t hear a word I say, so they make up their own words that they think I said and _believe_ that it’s what I said.

Me: “Nice day!”
Them: “I am not gay!”

Me: “Its blue, too.”
Them: “Well, screw you!”


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Golden Age said:


> In sounds to me like your wife is very insecure. Did she grow up in an environment where one, or both, parents were very critical? This often leads to someone being constantly on the defensive and feeling criticized in adult life even though the intention of what was actually said to them was completely different.


If so, its a reason and not an excuse, and if sometime like that wants to stay in a relationship they need to work on the issue themself, and learn to react in a fair and healthy way to people they want to have relationships with.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

ABHale said:


> Why is she accusing you of gaslighting? That is really a term used when a cheater tries to bent the truth to cover their tracks.


? You can gaslight someone about any topic.


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## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

I think maybe having a voice activated recorder with you would be able to prove to your wife that you are, in fact, not "gaslighting" her and that you are indeed saying exactly what you know you are saying. They're relatively cheap on Amazon and do a great job of recording the kinds of conversations you're talking about.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

hubbyintrubby said:


> I think maybe having a voice activated recorder with you would be able to prove to your wife that you are, in fact, not "gaslighting" her and that you are indeed saying exactly what you know you are saying. They're relatively cheap on Amazon and do a great job of recording the kinds of conversations you're talking about.


That is what I was going to recommend. It sounds like her mind automatically translates to something negative.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

@hubbyintrubby is absolutely right carry a VAR and have it when you begin having long conversation and when she tell you what she thinks you said you can play it back and see who misunderstood who....of course this may lead to other issues, namely her telling you what are you saying that i can't hear correctly (which is scientifically possible in that we all have filters in our heads that impact what we hear especially from love ones)

which leads me to an old joke 

two guys are talking over a beer and the first guy said to the second "i think i really screwed up this morning at breakfast with my wife"
the second guy asked him what happen

"I was sitting having a nice quiet breakfast with the wife. What I meant to say was Honey could you please pass the butter but what I really said was you *****, ruined my life!!"


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Ram81 said:


> We have some serious miscommunication in our relationship. This is not just your typical I said ‘A’ but she interpreted it as ‘B’. This is a constant issue where I will say something and she will hear different words and if I try to tell her that is not what I said I am immediately accused of lying and gaslighting. She says I don’t remember exactly what I said and that I’m changing my words to make myself sound better. She has even convinced me a few times that maybe I didn’t say it how I thought I did. And maybe she was right. The thing is I am very aware of this now and aware of how sensitive she can be so I often choose my words very precisely in order to avoid being misunderstood. And still she will tell me that I said something I know 100% I did not say. I am then stuck between just agreeing I said whatever crappy thing she said that I said (which would be a lie), or I stick to my guns and repeat what I said, which always leads to accusations of lying and gaslighting. This happens on a very regular basis and I am really struggling with how to move past it. I have been trying in vain for years to have her understand me but it’s getting nowhere and now that she learned the word gaslighting it’s thrown around all the time. Every time my recollection of something doesn’t match hers exactly I’m gaslighting. Gaslighting is systemic and abusive and is used to manipulate and control a person not a minor disagreement about your recollection. I really don’t want to spend the rest of my life having to agree with someone who is telling me what I said and why I said it (which bugs me even more) when they are totally wrong but I also love my wife and family and couldn’t imagine being without them. I’m at a loss. We have tried therapy at my request a couple of times but she just feels attacked and it almost breaks us up. Maybe I’m too in the weeds to see the obvious. I’m hoping some of you have advice or have been through this situation yourselves. It’s all making me feel like I’m going nuts. Thanks for reading.


The recorder is a must. Not to persuade you wife, but to preserve your sanity. There are lots of women who will try and play with your sanity, so you have to be careful of it. Write down conversations when they happen.

We think we exchange words to communicate. It is only partially true. We listen and should hear the feelings, the motive and the words. 
"Do I look fat?" is asked by someone feeling insecure who is motivated to seek reassurance. Then we know to say how amazing they are and not even look.

Women and men all struggle to get this right. But, some people will either be very literal and others pay less attention to the words and more to their reading of the feeling and motivation.

The issue is that when someone is a bit paranoid, insecure and lacking in self-awareness. This is when they will insist you have motives and feelings you did not and that you said specific words than you did not. Generally, women who lack that self-awareness will accuse you of being abusive and gaslighting, whereas men will make accusations of laziness and stupidity.

Therapy is the only chance. Where in the world are you?


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## Ram81 (Sep 22, 2020)

Livvie said:


> The fact that attending therapy together-- two different times--- almost broke you up because she felt "attacked" leads me to believe she is the one who has some serious issues, that came to light in therapy, and she didn't like that and refused to work on the issues. Is that what happened?


Yeah I feel like she definitely has things she needs to work through that she doesn’t really want to. She just wants to focus on us in therapy but you can’t really separate the two. Both people need to start to understand themselves and improve themselves in order to improve the relationship. This is easier than me because I have a less traumatic childhood so it doesn’t feel like opening old wounds.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

The recorder idea is a good one. Just play it back to prove she's wrong.


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## Ram81 (Sep 22, 2020)

Blondilocks said:


> That is what I was going to recommend. It sounds like her mind automatically translates to something negative.


I have actually installed an app on my phone that records the last 10 minutes and you can save it whenever you feel you need it. I hope this helps for my sanity at least. She definitely has a habit of hearing things as she fells them. Which a lot of us do but I find that she is very sensitive to criticism and is always searching for it so things often get interpreted critically even if I choose my words very carefully so I don’t seem critical. She will remember different words than what was said and tell me I’m being mean. Her mother was quite critical of her growing up and now I think she just assumes everyone is being critical. I can understand that and be forgiving of it but she needs to first realize that is what is going on. She hasn’t realized this even though I have talked about it. She thinks the problem is me.


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## Ram81 (Sep 22, 2020)

Mr The Other said:


> The recorder is a must. Not to persuade you wife, but to preserve your sanity. There are lots of women who will try and play with your sanity, so you have to be careful of it. Write down conversations when they happen.
> 
> We think we exchange words to communicate. It is only partially true. We listen and should hear the feelings, the motive and the words.
> "Do I look fat?" is asked by someone feeling insecure who is motivated to seek reassurance. Then we know to say how amazing they are and not even look.
> ...


That is a pretty accurate description of my wife. We are in Canada.


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## Ram81 (Sep 22, 2020)

C.C. says ... said:


> Maybe she needs a hearing aid? I know someone like this, but they can’t hear a word I say, so they make up their own words that they think I said and _believe_ that it’s what I said.
> 
> Me: “Nice day!”
> Them: “I am not gay!”
> ...


It almost seems that way sometimes. It’s often so far off from what I said it becomes the opposite.


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## Oldtimer (May 25, 2018)

I agree with CC, she might need a hearing aid. My wife has the same issue with hearing and it doesn’t help that I wear hearing aids lol.


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## Married_in_michigan (Apr 9, 2014)

Can you give an example of one of the misunderstanding? Are they things that are major and impactful or day-to-day stuff? 

Does she literally claim you used different words when you spoke to her, or is she trying to claim you had a different meaning or intention? My wife sometimes claims that she "knows" the meaning or intent of something I said, and it is often not at all what I was trying to say, but that is very different than the actual words that came out of my mouth and agreeing what was said.


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## nekonamida (Feb 21, 2017)

Ram, people come here looking for advice on how to make their spouse do something that they don't want to do all the time so let's get this out of the way: You CANNOT make your wife do ANYTHING. We can't make her. A doctor can't make her. A therapist can't make her. NO ONE can make her do anything unless she wants to do it herself and she will find 1,001 reasons, no matter how nonsensical or illogical, as to why she can't/won't so there is no point in trying to convince her any further. Any thinking you have about, "If I just do X or say Y then..." can go out the window right this minute. Even if this is as simple as your wife needing a hearing aid, if she refuses to acknowledge that and go get one that still leaves you in the exact same spot you are right now dealing with her. While trying to figure out why she's doing this is illuminating for you, it doesn't mean jack **** if she won't help herself and stop mistreating you.

That said - she isn't really giving you much to work with and is making it clear that she has no interest in examining herself, accepting accountability (even if it's accepting that she made a mistake when she misheard you), or making any changes on her side of the fence. That leaves you with two options: Accept her as she is and accept that this is how your marriage will always be OR demand change and enact consequences if she does not follow through. Since you're here and posting, I'm guessing the first option is not what you want so you're going to have to get tough. You're going to have to sit her down and say something like:

"Wife, I can no longer stand the miscommunication issues in our marriage. I love you and want what is best for you so hearing you tell me that I am lying and gaslighting when I am not is hurtful. I can no longer stay in a marriage where my spouse hurts me with false accusations and is not willing to get to the bottom of why they keep happening. I also don't think that anyone who truly believes their spouse is lying and gaslighting them like this without resolution should stay in their marriage either. We can either go to counseling one last time and attempt to get to the bottom of why you believe I am doing these awful things and solve it for good or we will need to separate so that we stop hurting each other." Then stick to your guns!

If you're not ready to put it all on the line for the sake of your own sanity and happiness, get a counselor for yourself. Pick up a copy of "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Dr. Robert Glover. Dig deep and figure out if this is the kind of marriage you want to stay in or if you want better for yourself.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

There are two problems here.

First, your wife is allowing her internal dialogue to override what you are saying to her.

Second, you have a need for her to agree with you.

Typically having one of the two is only a minor problem. Having both together is like oil and water.

Because you are here, let's start with you. Why do you need her to see it your way?

Next time she gaslights you while you are having one of these discussions, State one time (and one time only) what you actually said. If she continues to argue, simply shrug your shoulders and say, "I see it differently." Then walk away and go do something you want to do. The more you engage, the more she subconsciously sees it as an opportunity to sway your opinion.

One other line that I like to use when my wife pulls this **** is as follows:

"I don't have the ability nor the inclination to compete with your internal dialogue."

Now, on to her. When this happens, it is typically a reflection of how she feels about herself. Her inside voice is telling her the worst possible spin on what she hears. That **** is for her to own. That is the beauty of the second statement. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> There are two problems here.
> 
> First, your wife is allowing her internal dialogue to override what you are saying to her.
> 
> ...


A slightly softer path is to not identify her internal dialogue with her. These are usually self-hating dialogues, so give it a separate name (Preben works for us).


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

My wife does this. But I doubt it's due to mishearing.


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## Ram81 (Sep 22, 2020)

Married_in_michigan said:


> Can you give an example of one of the misunderstanding? Are they things that are major and impactful or day-to-day stuff?
> 
> Does she literally claim you used different words when you spoke to her, or is she trying to claim you had a different meaning or intention? My wife sometimes claims that she "knows" the meaning or intent of something I said, and it is often not at all what I was trying to say, but that is very different than the actual words that came out of my mouth and agreeing what was said.


A recent example is I was getting ready for bed and I saw some floss in the toilet. I know it’s not a good idea to be doing that because you’ll eventually clog your drains. I figure this is either something the kids did, or maybe she did it by accident, or maybe she thinks that’s how you dispose of floss. I know she doesn’t take criticism well so I chose my words intentionally and said “Did you put floss in the toilet?” Trying to imply that maybe it was the kid (we have a very busy 1 1/2 year old). My tone was not harsh or mean as I was not upset and I know she is sensitive so was trying to be very careful with it. She said ‘yes’ and I asked if that is how she always disposed of it. She got a little upset and said that is what her mother always did and she can do that if she wants etc etc. obviously trying to fight me. I’m a little confused why she is so upset by it but I just calmly told her that it is ok but in future it would be best to put it in the trash so it doesn’t clog things up. I crawl into bed and she gets upset and says I didn’t have to be so mean about it? I asked what did I do that was mean because I was really at a loss as to why she was upset. She said that I said “Oh we’re just throwing floss in the toilet now?” At this point I’m just like, no that’s not what I said, I just asked if you did it because I wasn’t sure if it was you or the kids or if it was an accident or whatever. Then she tells me I’m changing what I said, and I’m a liar, and a gaslighter. At this point I have two choices agree that I said a rude remark and am a liar and a gaslighter or I stick to my guns. I chose the latter and it has been two days of hell. It might literally break us up. I might be inclined to entertain that maybe I chose words I didn’t mean to use, as has been the case before, but this time I know what I said because I did it very deliberately. Maybe I could have asked if the kids did it and that would have been better but who knows.


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## C.C. says ... (Aug 1, 2020)

^
Omg why is she doing this? This is horrible. Crazy making behavior. As in she is going to make you crazy. This is just nuts to me. She would’ve been mad no matter how you put it because it seems like she’s purposely twisting every single thing you say. Sounds like contempt. Does she hate you? If so, why??


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## nekonamida (Feb 21, 2017)

This is no longer a medical issue with her hearing territory. This is personality disorder territory.



Ram81 said:


> It might literally break us up. I might be inclined to entertain that maybe I chose words I didn’t mean to use, as has been the case before, but this time I know what I said because I did it very deliberately. Maybe I could have asked if the kids did it and that would have been better but who knows.


You need to change your thinking here. If this does lead to divorce - and divorce should absolutely be on the table because she's emotionally abusing you with false allegations and put downs - it's not because she tried to fight you over where to dispose of the floss. It's because your wife doesn't respect you, treats you like you're abusive, puts you down, has you walking on eggshells daily, and most importantly she absolutely refuses to take any amount of accountability for herself or entertain the idea that she needs to make changes too for your marriage to be successful. Stop trivializing it. Stop entertaining the idea that maybe you're in the wrong when she does this. She is 100% wrong in this example and dysfunctional in her approach. Don't start asking yourself what you can do to work around her. And even if you had asked the kids, it wouldn't have mattered because SHE did it. And she isn't going to change a thing so now if the toilet clogs, you're the one dealing with the fallout.

Wake up, Ram. This is your life. This is your sanity and happiness at stake. Do you want to keep walking on eggshells, acting scared and fearful over every little thing because of her childish tantrums or do you want to take back control of your life and start living in a healthy and fulfilling way? If you're not ready to see the reality in front of you and DO something about it, you're not ready but at least start working on yourself and get yourself to a place where you can stand up to her. Does she treat your kids like this too?


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## C.C. says ... (Aug 1, 2020)

nekonamida said:


> This is no longer a medical issue with her hearing territory. This is personality disorder territory.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This !!!


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## Kaliber (Apr 10, 2020)

Ram81 said:


> A recent example is I was getting ready for bed and I saw some floss in the toilet. I know it’s not a good idea to be doing that because you’ll eventually clog your drains. I figure this is either something the kids did, or maybe she did it by accident, or maybe she thinks that’s how you dispose of floss. I know she doesn’t take criticism well so I chose my words intentionally and said “Did you put floss in the toilet?” Trying to imply that maybe it was the kid (we have a very busy 1 1/2 year old). My tone was not harsh or mean as I was not upset and I know she is sensitive so was trying to be very careful with it. She said ‘yes’ and I asked if that is how she always disposed of it. She got a little upset and said that is what her mother always did and she can do that if she wants etc etc. obviously trying to fight me. I’m a little confused why she is so upset by it but I just calmly told her that it is ok but in future it would be best to put it in the trash so it doesn’t clog things up. I crawl into bed and she gets upset and says I didn’t have to be so mean about it? I asked what did I do that was mean because I was really at a loss as to why she was upset. She said that I said “Oh we’re just throwing floss in the toilet now?” At this point I’m just like, no that’s not what I said, I just asked if you did it because I wasn’t sure if it was you or the kids or if it was an accident or whatever. Then she tells me I’m changing what I said, and I’m a liar, and a gaslighter. At this point I have two choices agree that I said a rude remark and am a liar and a gaslighter or I stick to my guns. I chose the latter and it has been two days of hell. It might literally break us up. I might be inclined to entertain that maybe I chose words I didn’t mean to use, as has been the case before, but this time I know what I said because I did it very deliberately. Maybe I could have asked if the kids did it and that would have been better but who knows.


Buddy, you will get all sort of illness in this marriage, you name it, blood pressure, heart issues ... etc
I would put a stop of this nonsense, she needs therapy, and she needs it badly!
This women has an issue with you!
It will not get any better!
This is not a life you're living, put you foot down and end this madness!
tell her you are done if she doesn't seek therapy!
Did you record that incident and played it to her?! because I thought you started to record these interactions!
Record one incident, play it to her, tell her to start therapy or you are done!

This is madness!


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

You need to talk to her. It’s clear you are walking on egg shells in your own home and that is not ok. Even if you said.. so what were throwing floss in the toilet now?? Who cares! That doesn’t mean she should make the environment in your home so hostile and awkward. 

Stop rolling over and being passive. You need to put your foot down. She’s an adult, why is she acting like a child.


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## Ram81 (Sep 22, 2020)

C.C. says ... said:


> ^
> Omg why is she doing this? This is horrible. Crazy making behavior. As in she is going to make you crazy. This is just nuts to me. She would’ve been mad no matter how you put it because it seems like she’s purposely twisting every single thing you say. Sounds like contempt. Does she hate you? If so, why??


I don’t believe she is hearing it correctly and just twisting it to get upset at me. I honestly think she hears that. She is always on high alert for criticism or hidden meanings and is always scanning tone or body language for it and I think she hears what she feels. She truly believes that is what I said because that is how she felt about it. We all do this to an extent but I think her self esteem is at an all time low and she grew up with abuse and a lot of criticism so she is preconditioned to find it even when it isn’t there. It leads he to always hear thing more negatively than they are said. I can be understanding of it but I’m not going to treated like I’m the asshole for standing up for myself.


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## Ram81 (Sep 22, 2020)

Kaliber said:


> Buddy, you will get all sort of illness in this marriage, you name it, blood pressure, heart issues ... etc
> I would put a stop of this nonsense, she needs therapy, and she needs it badly!
> This women has an issue with you!
> It will not get any better!
> ...


This is the incident that made me get the recorder. I’ve been recording everything since that argument.


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## Ram81 (Sep 22, 2020)

nekonamida said:


> This is no longer a medical issue with her hearing territory. This is personality disorder territory.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No she doesn’t treat the kids this way. Probably because she isn’t looking for hidden meanings in what a 5 year old says. She is a good mother. I wouldn’t ever fault her there.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

C.C. says ... said:


> ^
> Omg why is she doing this? This is horrible. Crazy making behavior. As in she is going to make you crazy. This is just nuts to me. She would’ve been mad no matter how you put it because it seems like she’s purposely twisting every single thing you say. Sounds like contempt. Does she hate you? If so, why??


You can be listening to someone, and answer...but if you were asked to repeat exactly what they said you would struggle. If you have a tyrannical inner-monologue, everyone will fit into it.

My very lovely wife and I had some miscommunication. She is a very impressive woman and that is how I viewed her. She saw me as a very masculine patriarcical figure. 
If she was speaking, I would be impressed, I might even mention something to support or add to her point. She would get defensive at this and snippy, I would back off and be irritated at her picking a fight when I had enough to deal with. 
Once we figured out how we were seeing each other, it resolved. We were closer than ever.
But, this required self-awareness on her part. She could see that she was listening, but (like everyone else) was filtering my words through her own perception. Not many people have that level of self-awareness. 
We are domesiticated creatures. There is pressure on us to be "good" like a good dog, particularly on women. Identifying as the goodie means your husband is the baddie. It can be an impossible dynamic to shift.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Ram81 said:


> No she doesn’t treat the kids this way. Probably because she isn’t looking for hidden meanings in what a 5 year old says. She is a good mother. I wouldn’t ever fault her there.


Then you might be dealing with a far worse thing than my wife and I went through. As I say, my wife is self-aware and very perceptive. Without that, it can be far harder.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Mr The Other said:


> You can be listening to someone, and answer...but if you were asked to repeat exactly what they said you would struggle. If you have a tyrannical inner-monologue, everyone will fit into it.


This happens a lot on the forum! There are certain people who, even if I post something *agreeing* with what they said, will automatically snap back angrily.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Laurentium said:


> This happens a lot on the forum! There are certain people who, even if I post something *agreeing* with what they said, will automatically snap back angrily.


For God's sake man!
I am trying to agree with you!
😠


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## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

Ram81 said:


> A recent example is I was getting ready for bed and I saw some floss in the toilet. I know it’s not a good idea to be doing that because you’ll eventually clog your drains. I figure this is either something the kids did, or maybe she did it by accident, or maybe she thinks that’s how you dispose of floss. I know she doesn’t take criticism well so I chose my words intentionally and said “Did you put floss in the toilet?” Trying to imply that maybe it was the kid (we have a very busy 1 1/2 year old). My tone was not harsh or mean as I was not upset and I know she is sensitive so was trying to be very careful with it. She said ‘yes’ and I asked if that is how she always disposed of it. She got a little upset and said that is what her mother always did and she can do that if she wants etc etc. obviously trying to fight me. I’m a little confused why she is so upset by it but I just calmly told her that it is ok but in future it would be best to put it in the trash so it doesn’t clog things up. I crawl into bed and she gets upset and says I didn’t have to be so mean about it? I asked what did I do that was mean because I was really at a loss as to why she was upset. She said that I said “Oh we’re just throwing floss in the toilet now?” At this point I’m just like, no that’s not what I said, I just asked if you did it because I wasn’t sure if it was you or the kids or if it was an accident or whatever. Then she tells me I’m changing what I said, and I’m a liar, and a gaslighter. At this point I have two choices agree that I said a rude remark and am a liar and a gaslighter or I stick to my guns.* I chose the latter and it has been two days of hell. It might literally break us up.* I might be inclined to entertain that maybe I chose words I didn’t mean to use, as has been the case before, but this time I know what I said because I did it very deliberately. Maybe I could have asked if the kids did it and that would have been better but who knows.


You ever think that maybe this is for the best? This sounds like less of an issue of hearing difficulty and more along the lines of a personality disorder of some kind. 

Get out.


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

Just be ready because you know the first time you prove her wrong by playing a recording back to her, she's going to lose her mind.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

How long have you been married? Are you passive-aggressive?


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Mr The Other said:


> For God's sake man!
> I am trying to agree with you!
> 😠


How very dare you!


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## Married_in_michigan (Apr 9, 2014)

Ram81 said:


> A recent example is I was getting ready for bed and I saw some floss in the toilet. I know it’s not a good idea to be doing that because you’ll eventually clog your drains. I figure this is either something the kids did, or maybe she did it by accident, or maybe she thinks that’s how you dispose of floss. I know she doesn’t take criticism well so I chose my words intentionally and said “Did you put floss in the toilet?” Trying to imply that maybe it was the kid (we have a very busy 1 1/2 year old). My tone was not harsh or mean as I was not upset and I know she is sensitive so was trying to be very careful with it. She said ‘yes’ and I asked if that is how she always disposed of it. She got a little upset and said that is what her mother always did and she can do that if she wants etc etc. obviously trying to fight me. I’m a little confused why she is so upset by it but I just calmly told her that it is ok but in future it would be best to put it in the trash so it doesn’t clog things up. I crawl into bed and she gets upset and says I didn’t have to be so mean about it? I asked what did I do that was mean because I was really at a loss as to why she was upset. She said that I said “Oh we’re just throwing floss in the toilet now?” At this point I’m just like, no that’s not what I said, I just asked if you did it because I wasn’t sure if it was you or the kids or if it was an accident or whatever. Then she tells me I’m changing what I said, and I’m a liar, and a gaslighter. At this point I have two choices agree that I said a rude remark and am a liar and a gaslighter or I stick to my guns. I chose the latter and it has been two days of hell. It might literally break us up. I might be inclined to entertain that maybe I chose words I didn’t mean to use, as has been the case before, but this time I know what I said because I did it very deliberately. Maybe I could have asked if the kids did it and that would have been better but who knows.


So...I really then think it is not about her arguing over the exact words used, she is hearing a message and deciding meaning behind it. Using your example, I am guessing regardless of what words you did use, or even if you used a different set of words, what your wife heard is criticism of her. She was being scolded. What words you used did not matter, in her mind you were saying something to her about correcting her or telling her that the behavior was bad. Based on what you said in this thread, I am guessing it has to do with her upbringing and how critical her mother was with her. Without therapy, its not going to get better on its own. You have to choose to either look the other way for anything she ever does (which will cause you to feel resentment), force the therapy issue, or divorce. 

People get imprinted at your ages, and that is a very hard habit to change. Often people do not even recognize their own imprinting and assume it is normal, so they often see no reason to seek help or motivation to change it. Although very different subject areas, both my wife and I have come to realize some very key areas of our personalities that were heavily influenced by early years imprinting. 

Has your wife always been this way? Dating period? Pre-children?


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## Ram81 (Sep 22, 2020)

Mr The Other said:


> You can be listening to someone, and answer...but if you were asked to repeat exactly what they said you would struggle. If you have a tyrannical inner-monologue, everyone will fit into it.
> 
> My very lovely wife and I had some miscommunication. She is a very impressive woman and that is how I viewed her. She saw me as a very masculine patriarcical figure.
> If she was speaking, I would be impressed, I might even mention something to support or add to her point. She would get defensive at this and snippy, I would back off and be irritated at her picking a fight when I had enough to deal with.
> ...





Married_in_michigan said:


> So...I really then think it is not about her arguing over the exact words used, she is hearing a message and deciding meaning behind it. Using your example, I am guessing regardless of what words you did use, or even if you used a different set of words, what your wife heard is criticism of her. She was being scolded. What words you used did not matter, in her mind you were saying something to her about correcting her or telling her that the behavior was bad. Based on what you said in this thread, I am guessing it has to do with her upbringing and how critical her mother was with her. Without therapy, its not going to get better on its own. You have to choose to either look the other way for anything she ever does (which will cause you to feel resentment), force the therapy issue, or divorce.
> 
> People get imprinted at your ages, and that is a very hard habit to change. Often people do not even recognize their own imprinting and assume it is normal, so they often see no reason to seek help or motivation to change it. Although very different subject areas, both my wife and I have come to realize some very key areas of our personalities that were heavily influenced by early years imprinting.
> 
> Has your wife always been this way? Dating period? Pre-children?


i feel like she has always had this tendency to some extent. I think having children made it worse as it has affected her self esteem and she feels like I must not love her because she has some stretch marks and what not. I really am not bothered by those things but she is. If she doesn’t love herself how could I love her - that’s how she sees it. And if I am telling her I love her but she believes I don’t she is then hyper aware of anything that can prove I don’t love her. It’s like it’s her brains way of trying to reconcile two things that can’t both be true. Finding a way to prove I don’t really love her aligns with her view of herself.


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## Ram81 (Sep 22, 2020)

Mr The Other said:


> You can be listening to someone, and answer...but if you were asked to repeat exactly what they said you would struggle. If you have a tyrannical inner-monologue, everyone will fit into it.
> 
> My very lovely wife and I had some miscommunication. She is a very impressive woman and that is how I viewed her. She saw me as a very masculine patriarcical figure.
> If she was speaking, I would be impressed, I might even mention something to support or add to her point. She would get defensive at this and snippy, I would back off and be irritated at her picking a fight when I had enough to deal with.
> ...





Diceplayer said:


> Just be ready because you know the first time you prove her wrong by playing a recording back to her, she's going to lose her mind.


Oh I know it! She already hates it when I’m right about something. Recorded proof... that’ll be interesting.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Ram81 said:


> Oh I know it! She already hates it when I’m right about something. Recorded proof... that’ll be interesting.


I think there is a gentler way.
-----------------------------------
I can start with;
Step 1: A regular intervention along the lines of...
I think what you heard me say was "You are an evil scorpion *****", what I actually said was "thank you for the coffee". I did not mean to give the impression you are an evil scorpion *****, sorry that I did _so [do not apologise for actually saying that though, only for your part in her getting that impression, while acknowledging her perception], _what I meant to convey was how grateful I am for the coffee. I love you.

Step 2: I think you struggle to realise how special you are [specifics] and I am bad at showing you [this is valid]. I see myself as hopefully an loving and equal partner who is lucky to be with you. Do I give the impression of being someone else?
-----------------------------------
The idea is to move the conversation on from what you actually said (where you are probably completely right, but she will just feel attacked). And, move it to the core issue, the personality that she is projecting onto you. You can ask her help into how to go about changing that.

That said, it does require self-analysis on both parts. A look at the politics forum on here shows people struggle to be slightly self-aware. But it does give more or a chance.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

So...about the floss. Is floss in the toilet really a big deal? Was it a big roll of floss or just a small amount like one would use if they actually did floss prior to tossing it in the toilet? To me, bringing up something so small like a bit of floss in the crapper seems like something so petty that I would never mention. How often do you find little things like this to talk about?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Yeah it is. Floss over time can really clog things up. I know someone who spent 6k fixing a clog from their property out to the street sewer line. Same goes for hair cuttings down the toilet. When worse if they have a septic system.

And this is a long term marriage. You should be able to have a quick conversation about please don't put floss down the toilet.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Livvie said:


> Yeah it is. Floss over time can really clog things up. I know someone who spent 6k fixing a clog from their property out to the street sewer line. Same goes for hair cuttings down the toilet. When worse if they have a septic system.
> 
> And this is a long term marriage. You should be able to have a quick conversation about please don't put floss down the toilet.


Yeah, maybe. But maybe they don't have a septic tank. Maybe a little floss in the toilet is absolutely harmless, especially if this is the first time he's ever seen it. 

I'm not saying this is the case, but I did want to give a different opinion that the OP doesn't seem to be getting. I'm not suggesting this is what is actually going on but if the OP is overly critical and has something to say about many little things his wife does, I can understand a little more why she might overreact. That might not be what is happening here but I thought it was worth thinking about.


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