# Were you "Love Bombed" by a narcissist?



## pink_lady (Dec 1, 2012)

I figured out my STBXH is a textbook passive-aggressive, but today I realized he is also a narcissist after reading this post:
Love Bombing – When It’s Too Good To Be True | Narcissism and Relationships Blog by Melanie Tonia Evans

Several people mentioned narcissism in the other threads I started, but I knew my H had low self-esteem, so I just didn't see how those two personality problems could co-exist.

I first came across the phrase "love bombing" on the Chump Lady blog and something clicked, as this is *exactly* what my H did to draw me in to a relationship.

We met online and lived a state away from each other. After we met in person, he sent me LONG exquisitely written love letters, gushing on and on about how I was the most amazing, sexiest woman ever, blah blah blah. He drew an entire book full of pictures of me, sent flowers, gifts and cards, we had so much in common...

I wondered if others on TAM have experienced this. Did you think it was how a normal relationship starts? 

Deep down I knew it was over the top. But I ignored the red flags, of course. I'm not sure why I fell for this. Desperation for a relationship, leftover issues from growing up a fat kid, a distant father who made it clear I was nothing but an inconvenience, an older sister who I now think is probably a narcissist also... all of the above?

Maybe I just thought that's how men act when they really, really like you. 

The fact that he's an actor/singer/performer (he told me once he got a rush from being on stage and getting applause), and constantly, desperately sought out female attention "ego kibbles" any way he could while treating me like I was nothing (the 'devalue' stage) also fits.

It says in the blog that narcissists have no 'self' of their own but are chameleons. My H uses the term 'shape-shifter' for his theater stuff and FB page. He also pretended to be an English exchange student successfully for a year and a half while he was in middle school. He said he adopted an alter ego so people would like him.

He told me he loved me (during sex) the 4th time we met. A few months ago I brought that up to him and asked him if he really did love me at the time. He said, "of course not, I didn't even know you." So why did you say it? I asked. His response was that he "just felt like saying it." He had a little smile on his face when he told me this.

Are narcissists capable of love? 

I've heard several people say that when a marriage goes to hell, we should stop trying to figure out the spouse's issues and focus on fixing ourselves, but applying actual terms to the horribly confusing and hurtful way my H has acted toward me has helped immeasurably, and it all came from this site.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

pink_lady said:


> Are narcissists capable of love?.


No. My ex was a raging narcissist. About 8 months after I left him, I chanced upon a book on the internet, which I downloaded for free.

There was a sort of the bottom-dropping-out sensation as I read an exact description of my husband.

Narcissists can mirror love, they can project an image, but the real person underneath it all scares the heck outta me. Why? 

Because underneath is something that strikes me as sociopathic. 

It's all about "things": acquiring people, clothing, cars, houses, or whatever else they need in order to "decorate" themselves. 

I finally understood why my husband had over 200 neckties, 40 suits, and a dozen pair of Frye and Tony Llama boots. He decorated himself. 

While we were dating, I was the adored object. However, as with all objects, I had an expiration date. When the novelty of me wore off for him, the abuse started. 

I've never been so glad to get the heck out of a relationship in my entire life! I didn't realize just how crazy and dangerous my ex was until I got out of that living hell on earth.

And I was able to reflect on his so-called "adoration" of me. Yes, he was extremely (and dangerously) charming. But most of all, I was one very sick puppy to have fallen for his b.s.


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## SkyHigh (Jun 17, 2012)

I'm not too sure if her Axis 2 is NPD, but she hinted at BPD. 

I definitely got all the love-bombing. 

"I've never been so happy, nobody's ever made me feel this complete."

"You're my soulmate."

"I feel like I can spend the rest of my life with you."

Flash forward nearly seven years later, and I'm basically dead to her. 

I'm NEVER falling for this one again.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

SkyHigh said:


> "You're my soulmate."


*Scary*. If I could count the number of times my ex said this very thing to me ...


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## pink_lady (Dec 1, 2012)

At what point does the adoration stop and the abuse begin? What's the trigger?


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## SkyHigh (Jun 17, 2012)

I believed that we were. We had our very rocky points during our friendship, but we always found a way through it. I always felt that meant something big.

I felt the same way about her. But her behavior just got more and more bizarre. I hung in there as long as I could.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

pink_lady said:


> At what point does the adoration stop and the abuse begin? What's the trigger?


They can't pretend forever. They have to be ugly to someone to get their high.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Pink said: "I wondered if others on TAM have experienced this. Did you think it was how a normal relationship starts?"

I have a close girlfriend who went through it (with another woman, they are both gay). Yes, my friend was love bombed, for SURE. She also did think that this was how a normal relationship starts.

The narcissist girlfriend of hers was sooooo freaking messed up, but no one except only 1 or 2 closest people to her would ever know this. She kept enough distance with all other acquaintances, co-workers, and friends, that they never saw her in full NPD mode. Therefore, she appeared to be a very beautiful and charismatic person to all who knew her. Familiar, right?

She was a manipulation expert at the beginning of all her relationships, and made her targets feel so loved and adored and special. The art work, poems, love songs...in their case, she even gave my gf a car! 

Anyway, when it all unraveled the mess ended up looking pretty much like your relationship (except that the NPD was financially in great shape of her own efforts) ... (oh and, the NPD was officially cheating on my gf, not just susptected). She moved on immediately after my gf left her, and yet my gf's life was devastated...it literally never occurred to her until the end that she was dealing with an NPD. In other words, she still, until the breakup really happened, thought the NPD really was capable of love, and thought all the gestures had been genuine. 

Pink said "Maybe I just thought that's how men act when they really, really like you".


That's sad, because it kind of IS! 

Though I am sure now you see red flags you ignored at the time, because you didn't realize what you were dealing with. I am not sure people who haven't really dealt with it (on that relationship level) can understand what it is like. I only peripherally understand it by being there for my gf as she went through a massive grief and loss and spiritual questioning brought on by that break up. I had read already several article about NPD just out of curiousity from other websites and stories I read there. So at least I could sort of process what was happening to her and understand how big of a mind f*ck it was for her.

She's great now, by the way! Totally moved on. It has been only a couple of years but all is well.

For future reference and for anyone who is still single:

Too much, too fast is ALWAYS a huge red flag.


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## SouthernMiss (Apr 25, 2013)

I was love bombed by a sociopath. Somewhat similar to a narcissistic personality.

It chills you to the core when you realize the person you've felt a lifelong commitment to was really only playing out their personality disorder.

Mine also eventually couldn't keep up his personality (the one he kept up with me) and it turned into rage (at being exposed) and physical and mental abuse.

The more mentally well I became, the more his sickness became evident. He cracked. He couldn't keep up the appearance anymore.

But at first? At first, he heard voices from Angels saying my name (weird I know), I was his soulmate, I was his reason for breathing, I was his world...everything about me brought high praise. Everything about me...he couldn't live without. I was an answer to his every prayer.

It's very complimentary. It's intoxicating to be "loved" so heartily. 

But it's all an act. Designed to ensnare you into being with him...so he can "try on" a new life. 

Eventually they always want to try on another though.

When he was gone, I was left homeless, with three kids, no money and no job (8 years as a SAHM)...and he never had the decency to even say he was sorry. 

Well that's because he wasn't. Sociopaths don't have empathy, so he'll never be sorry.

My revenge? Marrying a wonderful man who is a truly great stepdad...and building a happy life...while he still struggles to meet out any meaningful existence for himself. 

I feel sorry for him. He will always be like this. I don't have to be. I'm the winner.


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

Oh god yes! Long love letters about how perfect our lives would be, flowers, platitudes

It lasted a few years (until we got married actually) and then the signs started to show

The new girlfriend has only done a year of servitude so she's got a little while to go yet before he shows his true colours. Unfortunately for her she's not financially independent of him

Oh dear

Mwahahahahaha


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Yes.
I was , before I got married.

I will always remember that girl.
Madly in love from the word go, thought she was god's gift to men, always flirting with other men ,gave me expensive gifts, extremely jealous, very sexual ,she was VERY intelligent and articulate, also self motivated. Very competitive, always had to win. She owned a small business, which was very successful.
What I liked about her was that she was very successful in her professional life, house , car, business, travel etc.
Biggest turn off was the lying and she always had to have things her way.
But I spotted the signs early , even though I din't know term for her behaviour. I never really invested much emotions in her, because I knew it couldn't last. I knew she would have left me so I just gave her the attention hat she craved. 
She moved on , got married and was divorced about three years later.


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## neganagatime (Feb 10, 2012)

I just read this article and then a bunch of other stuff on NPD, and am beginning to think my ex may be a narcissist. If not NPD, certainly some personality disorder ... although many times the definitions could apply to a lot of people at various points in their lives.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> Yes.
> I was , before I got married.
> 
> I will always remember that girl.
> ...


Narcissist suck. You can't even explain it to them. Life has to teach them that one, and the most hard headed narcissist will still not change. They suck the life out of you.

However some of us go through periods of increasing and decreasing self involvement. We can become narcissistic at certain points, but later we could reflect and not like this part of our character.

A true, strong and hardened narcissist will not hear your complaints. It will actually look at you like you are less than them and should be thank ful for the opportunity to kiss their a$$.

Kindest regards.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> Yes.
> I was , before I got married.
> 
> I will always remember that girl.
> ...


Being a high level narcissist. Were you able to get a high level of involvement or attention from her, or was it about showering her with it? What about the sex and intimacy? What about you guys communication? Where you able to communicate effectively your wants and needs, or it had to be always about her?


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## pink_lady (Dec 1, 2012)

Prodigal said:


> There was a sort of the bottom-dropping-out sensation as I read an exact description of my husband.


That is how I felt too. I think deep down I knew that he never really loved or even cared about me as a person. But seeing it right there in black and white was devastating.


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## SweetDee47 (Jun 1, 2013)

He told me he loved me (during sex) the 4th time we met. A few months ago I brought that up to him and asked him if he really did love me at the time. He said, "of course not, I didn't even know you." So why did you say it? I asked. His response was that he "just felt like saying it." He had a little smile on his face when he told me this.


Oh man. Narcissicists smile whenever they get away with a lie. He was probably thinking back to the lie and it was making him feel all fuzzy inside about it. Many sociopaths do this as well. 

Sam Vaknin is actually on youtube and does many videos about the subject the link to his book is below. I'd do more research before you move forward. Unfortunately the narcissist I had in my life, I had to cut off completely. Unfortunately there is no real cure for Narcissim. 

Malignant Self-Love: Narcissism Revisited: Sam Vaknin, Lidija Rangelovska: 9788023833843: Amazon.com: Books


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## SweetDee47 (Jun 1, 2013)

pink_lady said:


> At what point does the adoration stop and the abuse begin? What's the trigger?


Narcissists use you for whatever they need. You need to figure out what your use is to him. It's like a Narcissistic supply, once you no longer have use to them or violate their ego in some way they go into a Narcisstic rage....and you don't want that. For me, I was the Narcissistics source of love and admiration, because I was a good person if I validated their actions they could assume they were good as well...they would constantly ask me for advice....and once, and I mean it once, I disagreed with something they said mean about someone and thats when the abuse began....death threats, texts, emails, telling me I should kill myself, they also practiced textbook "displacement".....where all of the sudden I was the mean, hurtful, vindictative one, not them....they were the victim even though I was the one who suffered abuse by their hand.....when you assault thier ego its down the rabbit hole they go....


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

SweetDee47 said:


> He told me he loved me (during sex) the 4th time we met. A few months ago I brought that up to him and asked him if he really did love me at the time. He said, "of course not, I didn't even know you." So why did you say it? I asked. His response was that he "just felt like saying it." He had a little smile on his face when he told me this.
> 
> 
> Oh man. Narcissicists smile whenever they get away with a lie. He was probably thinking back to the lie and it was making him feel all fuzzy inside about it. Many sociopaths do this as well.
> ...


You did your part for the cure by breaking up with the guy.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

SweetDee47 said:


> Narcissists use you for whatever they need. You need to figure out what your use is to him. It's like a Narcissistic supply, once you no longer have use to them or violate their ego in some way they go into a Narcisstic rage....and you don't want that. For me, I was the Narcissistics source of love and admiration, because I was a good person if I validated their actions they could assume they were good as well...they would constantly ask me for advice....and once, and I mean it once, I disagreed with something they said mean about someone and thats when the abuse began....death threats, texts, emails, telling me I should kill myself, they also practiced textbook "displacement".....where all of the sudden I was the mean, hurtful, vindictative one, not them....they were the victim even though I was the one who suffered abuse by their hand.....when you assault thier ego its down the rabbit hole they go....


Interesting to understand them from this perspective.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

SweetDee47 said:


> Narcissists use you for whatever they need. You need to figure out what your use is to him. It's like a Narcissistic supply, once you no longer have use to them or violate their ego in some way they go into a Narcisstic rage....and you don't want that. For me, I was the Narcissistics source of love and admiration, because I was a good person if I validated their actions they could assume they were good as well...they would constantly ask me for advice....and once, and I mean it once, I disagreed with something they said mean about someone and thats when the abuse began....death threats, texts, emails, telling me I should kill myself, they also practiced textbook "displacement".....where all of the sudden I was the mean, hurtful, vindictative one, not them....they were the victim even though I was the one who suffered abuse by their hand.....when you assault thier ego its down the rabbit hole they go....


The interesting thing I have found about them is that they make good casual friendships. In social settings they are usually fun to have around. But in personal relationships, they will suck life out of you to get their " fix."
I don't know if this makes sense but,
IMO, sometimes even " normal " people may have some narcissistic traits in them,but it doesn't negate their other good traits.
Maybe that's why its hard to spot the real, 
" hardcore "narcissists up front until its almost too late.
In order to spot them, a person would have to know what a healthy relationship is. 
Just my .02cents worth, lol, I am not very knowledgeable about these things!


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Many people display slight tendancies torward narcissism and sociopathy. They are the "get what you can" crowd.

But people are more complex than that. They are a mixture of good and bad. Smart people learn to recognize the syptoms of self centered, entitled people and avoid getting close to them. Unless they are family and then you're stuck with them


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> The interesting thing I have found about them is that they make good casual friendships. In social settings they are usually fun to have around. But in personal relationships, they will suck life out of you to get their " fix."
> I don't know if this makes sense but,
> IMO, sometimes even " normal " people may have some narcissistic traits in them,but it doesn't negate their other good traits.
> Maybe that's why its hard to spot the real,
> ...


It's hard to spot because narcissist have lots of self confidence which attracts others.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> Many people display slight tendancies torward narcissism and sociopathy. They are the "get what you can" crowd.
> 
> But people are more complex than that. They are a mixture of good and bad. Smart people learn to recognize the syptoms of self centered, entitled people and avoid getting close to them. * Unless they are family and then you're stuck with them*


Ok,

I get what you're saying and I agree especially with the last sentence!


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## pink_lady (Dec 1, 2012)

Regular people can have narcissistic traits- everyone does to some degree. 

Narcissistic personality disorder is a different animal. The 'real' self is replaced by a 'false' self- a facade the narcissist has to constantly protect and feed. They are actually desperate, miserable people.

For my H, NPD would explain his 'Peter Pan' syndrome & belief that he should receive unconditional love and be supported by his 'secondary sources' of narcissistic supply (family and spouse) while offering absolutely nothing in return. He did not think he should have to earn a living, or do any housework or upkeep of the free house his parents gave him to live in.

It also explains why he could not tolerate listening to me talk about myself and my own career and aspirations, or any type of criticism, and why he ignored and dissed me when primary sources of ns were present.

It explains the constant need for outside validation and attention from other women, and anyone else he could get any ns from, the lying and his inability to trust me or anyone else.

I thought I was healthy, but healthy people don't fall for the narcissist's line of bullsh!t like I did.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Thundarr said:


> Many people display slight tendancies torward narcissism and sociopathy. They are the "get what you can" crowd.
> 
> But people are more complex than that. They are a mixture of good and bad. Smart people learn to recognize the syptoms of self centered, entitled people and avoid getting close to them. Unless they are family and then you're stuck with them


Just cause their family doesn't mean you have to let them close. Family can ruin your life as easily as an enemy, sometimes are the enemy.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Even when I worked as a counselor, I hadn't come across a true narcissist. But while divorcing, I met a guy online and we became involved in a long-distance relationship. Yes, the whole love bombing thing was there. 

Literally everyone said that we seemed great together - and for a number of months, I thought so, too. I think I probably wouldn't have fallen for it normally, but I was vulnerable and hurting while mourning the loss of my marriage, which was reasonably friendly all the way through - including our divorce. 

Then I moved with the guy, and OVERNIGHT, all hell broke loose. The first trigger was that he said he'd open up a joint checking account and I'd put my earnings into it. Um... no! I also made the grand mistake of saying I'd need to buy a house soon, because his was too small. (His was 900 sq. ft. and I'd just left a 3,600 sq. ft. home - and his house was already furnished, so there was no room for my belongings. They sat in a trailer parked behind the house.) He told me I was a spoiled, selfish child for wanting to buy a house of my own. I was also unappreciative of the fact that he was "putting a roof over my head" even though I wrote him a check each month that covered half of the bills. Finally, he got mad because he wanted to get married and I told him that I would have to have a prenup and wanted to wait until we'd been together a year or more. This was a slap in the face to him.

In the earliest days, he'd told me his email passwords. When he started with this behavior, I looked through his e-mails. His letters to me were nearly identical to the ones he had sent other women - one after another during the months before us getting together. They were full of the same flattering compliments, the same nicknames. 

I learned from his family that he had a habit of targeting females in the process of divorce. The only exception in his past was a terminally ill woman who relied on him completely until the day she died. He swore it was his best relationship - and even when we lived together, I was not allowed to throw away the many 18-inch boxes full of bandages because it was his reminder of that time in his life. 

His idea of seduction was to say "wanna F?" and to just start without permission if I was asleep. He bluntly told me I should be willing to let him use my body any way he wanted to. 

He got extremely upset if I actually spoke to anyone about real estate. We were both in the business and he felt I was stepping on his toes if I ever tried to talk to anyone about it. Obviously, this had a major effect on my earnings. 

He also got upset because when he whined about business competitors who had started in the same business as him, at around the same time as him. They'd turned their businesses into much larger operations, while he still had ONE excavator after 17 years. He would say that it was because they had family money and that it was unfair. My response was that he could do whatever he wanted if only he'd learn how, which he got angry about hearing. 

He went so far as to insist that his father's property belonged half to him because he'd helped build his dad's garage. 

Surprisingly, he insisted on counseling. His goal was to fix me, I think, but the counselor started to confront his own behaviors, too, and he stormed out. I can't say it surprised me. 

If you're looking for a great insight into narcissism, please read my article about it. I think you'll find the video especially interesting. Narcissism: Recognizing, Coping With, and Treating It


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## SweetDee47 (Jun 1, 2013)

I thought I was healthy, but healthy people don't fall for the narcissist's line of bullsh!t like I did.[/QUOTE]

Don't blame yourself! I thought forever there was something wrong with me that I kept attracting these types but truth is they seek out kind, giving people, it appears as weakness to them. They are cunning and manipulative. And if you are like myself you try to see the best in people...so you are more forgiving.....this is another weapon in their twisted arsenal. The best thing to do is recognize the signs of narcissism. 

I realized that I also attracted NPD friends as well. i.e. for example my one friend was down on her luck and had a little girl so I would give her a ride to where she needed to go, and even buy groceries for her. One time I got really sick and received a call from her at 3am. She wanted me to give her a drive to a gas station to get cigarettes, she was a short walk from there mind you and I said I am sorry but I can barely move....she screamed at me and called me a stupid *****....etc. etc. and that I should get my ass there now and give her a ride.....I was shocked.......I said look I'm sick and I don't know what you want me to do its 3am.....Suffice to say I cut off that relationship and have since continued to attract the same kinds of people, now I keep new relationships at arms length....and got myself a little dose of narcissism myself in that I don't apologize for saying "no" to people and have no qualms voicing my opinion about peoples wrong behaviors.....

you want to know what I found out.....normal people i.e. will respect you and your BOUNDARIES/opinions.....NPDs will hate you...and almost immediately display narcissistic behavior....I had another friend who I recently cut off ties with because she was also an NPD....she would get angry every time I didn't bend to her will on something....and would rant to other people like a crazy person...I caught her in a lie and all heck broke loose....(getting caught is like a violation of their façade/ego) so all of the sudden because I caught her in a lie, I became a liar, because I wouldn't bend to her will and engage in her self loathing ways, I became egotistical....and because she failed in manipulating me, I became manipulative....."displacement" is such a common occurrences with NPDs that whenever that happens I know its time to cut off the relationship before it gets any worse.....

unfortunately you can cut off these relationships but what I find is NPDs can't let it go some times and continue to try and tear you down through your other social relationships....they will talk to anyone who will listen and try to get your attention this way and through hate messages.....its always best to ignore them...they are trying to bait you back into a relationship with them through cruel means.......look up "gas lighting"....

Okay now I think I've ranted enough lmao.....I just want you to understand your not alone and to never blame yourself....research is the best tool in your arsenal ; )


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## SweetDee47 (Jun 1, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> The interesting thing I have found about them is that they make good casual friendships. In social settings they are usually fun to have around. But in personal relationships, they will suck life out of you to get their " fix."
> I don't know if this makes sense but,
> IMO, sometimes even " normal " people may have some narcissistic traits in them,but it doesn't negate their other good traits.
> Maybe that's why its hard to spot the real,
> ...


Absolutely! You won't know its a narcissist until you get close with them....then you have to go through the painstaking process of suffering abuse, cutting them off etc..


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

SweetDee47 said:


> Don't blame yourself! I thought forever there was something wrong with me that I kept attracting these types* but truth is they seek out kind, giving people, it appears as weakness to them. They are cunning and manipulative. And if you are like myself you try to see the best in people...so you are more forgiving.....this is another weapon in their twisted arsenal. The best thing to do is recognize the signs of narcissism. *
> 
> I realized that I also attracted NPD friends as well. i.e. for example my one friend was down on her luck and had a little girl so I would give her a ride to where she needed to go, and even buy groceries for her. One time I got really sick and received a call from her at 3am. She wanted me to give her a drive to a gas station to get cigarettes, she was a short walk from there mind you and I said I am sorry but I can barely move....she screamed at me and called me a stupid *****....etc. etc. and that I should get my ass there now and give her a ride.....I was shocked.......I said look I'm sick and I don't know what you want me to do its 3am.....Suffice to say I cut off that relationship and have since continued to attract the same kinds of people, now I keep new relationships at arms length....and got myself a little dose of narcissism myself in that I don't apologize for saying "no" to people and have no qualms voicing my opinion about peoples wrong behaviors.....
> 
> ...




Thank to both you and the OP, for the useful insights.
Hindsight is really 20/20 vision.
Reading our posts and the others has helped me put certain things about past relationships and some people's behaviour in perspective!


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

SweetDee47 said:


> I thought forever there was something wrong with me that I kept attracting these types but truth is they seek out kind, giving people, it appears as weakness to them. They are cunning and manipulative.


God almighty ain't that the truth!

In criminology, there is what is known as the "victim stance" that purse-snatchers or robbery men look for when choosing targets and there is an exact parallel with manipulative people and their targets. 

It is remarkably easy for them to spot us. All of the manipulative sub-orders like the emotional vampire, the snake in a suit, the borderline personality disordered, covert aggressive, etc. - they are really quick to evaluate people and they each have batteries of tests they run us through upon meeting us.

I was so naiive. The one thing we are instilling in our children that was not at all discussed with me was how deceptive people can be and how they absolutely cannot just give their trust to people. It has to be earned.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Allowing myself to be 'love bombed' by a narcissistic abuser resulted in some pretty life changing circumstances for me some years back.

The only way that people like this manage to get themselves into relationships in the first place, IMO, is by adopting whatever fake persona they feel they need to hook you in, then manipulating the relationship forward at lightening speed. After all, time is of the essence, because deep down they know that they can't keep up their act for too long... They shower you with so much flattery and over the top attention (constant phone calls/texts/emails when you're not with them) that you barely have time to think, whilst at the same time cunningly isolating you from family and friends. It's at this point that the narcissist's games begin and they slowly turn your life into one of chaos.

Anyone finding themselves prey to someone like this should run. Very, very fast!


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

Thundarr said:


> It's hard to spot because narcissist have lots of self confidence which attracts others.


Considering they have no sense of self, and have extremely low self esteem, I would sooner believe that their exhibited confidence is just a fake as everything else about them.


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## SweetDee47 (Jun 1, 2013)

Wiserforit said:


> God almighty ain't that the truth!
> 
> In criminology, there is what is known as the "victim stance" that purse-snatchers or robbery men look for when choosing targets and there is an exact parallel with manipulative people and their targets.
> 
> ...


And I attract them all as well....its like a deck of cards....collect em all lol....Absolutely, building trust is important and NPDs don't like it at all....its like you have to make yourself little emotional, mental armor....and if they can't penetrate it or manipulate you in any way it sends them into a rage...the last NPD I encountered was interesting because they would literally cry if they couldn't manipulate me...in a ploy to make me feel guilty for not trusting or questioning them....I was just in shock and wondered why I didn't feel bad for them, I mean the situation didn't call for crying but I cry at the drop of a hat when someones hurting....and it dawned on me, its because it wasn't genuine....my intuition told me it was fake before my mind could process what was going on....Once I caught them red handed in a lie, its like I could see pure hatred in their eyes...and I saw their true self.....


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

SweetDee47 said:


> I could see pure hatred in their eyes...and I saw their true self.....


OMG. Hello fellow traveler.

This is an insight that sends chills down me. When I had my breakthrough on this I was in the grips of a malicious and cunning covert aggressive. 

I realized something was being done to me, that I was always a step or two behind, so I read three books in rapid succession. I also wrote down on paper the things that were being said to me instead of responding to them. 

There was a list of seven emotional attacks that I typed out and when I was ready I confronted this individual. Every response I got was straight off the list. I was holding the list and calling out "number two, number four, etc." and pointing each one out.

Whereas before I had always been manipulated into frustration and anger, I started laughing and became elated and positively giddy. It was like facing a machine, not a person, and it had no other output except these emotionally manipulative outputs on the list.

I remember the apex of this encounter when I said "I got your number!", the rage that overcame my opponent. The list was snatched out of my hands, crumpled and torn...

I will never forget as long as I live seeing what I saw in those eyes. The darkness. The hate. It was like looking into a bottomless black hole of evil. I realized how completely I had been duped - that I was finally seeing beneath the mask. The last thing this covert aggressive ever said to me was on that day: Don't... talk... to... me.

Underneath that narcissist is a boiling cauldron of seething poison that is concealed by a mask of glib, charming countenance when you first meet them. It's just amazing how they camoflage themselves, but when the mask is pulled off - it can be frightening how evil they are.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

pink_lady said:


> At what point does the adoration stop and the abuse begin? What's the trigger?


When you hurt them.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Wiserforit said:


> OMG. Hello fellow traveler.
> 
> This is an insight that sends chills down me. When I had my breakthrough on this I was in the grips of a malicious and cunning covert aggressive.
> 
> ...


Wow. Can they slip past you now? Or are there certain types you are succeptible to?


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

pink_lady said:


> At what point does the adoration stop and the abuse begin? What's the trigger?


When they realize that even YOU can't make them feel whole or good about themselves. They can never get enough love, and once they realize that their new 'source' (you) isn't healing that which can never be healed (without, possibly, intense therapy), their histrionic behaviour takes over and the abuse begins.

They will destroy you completely, if necessary, in an endeavour to make you feel as bad about yourself as they feel about themselves. To a narc, another's pain is balm to their damaged soul.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

treyvion said:


> Wow. Can they slip past you now? Or are there certain types you are succeptible to?


I decided to make this an avid pursuit of mine and no, they don't fool me anymore. When you know what to look for, you can spot them immediately. 

That doesn't mean you engage with them though. Avoiding them is the best policy. But sometimes you can't avoid, and they will manipulate everyone around them to their advantage against you. I have them in my family for example and it isn't often I have to deal with them, but you have to be on top of your game at all times to handle them.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Wiserforit said:


> I decided to make this an avid pursuit of mine and no, they don't fool me anymore. When you know what to look for, you can spot them immediately.
> 
> That doesn't mean you engage with them though. Avoiding them is the best policy. But sometimes you can't avoid, and they will manipulate everyone around them to their advantage against you. I have them in my family for example and it isn't often I have to deal with them, but you have to be on top of your game at all times to handle them.


And they probably recognize YOU as well, or another YOU in any environment. Perhaps they figure your like that magical cube in the movie "Hell Raiser", and they get you manipulated, leveraged just right for them to have an advantage or to feel a certain way. I'm glad you pointed out they can be in families... Some of us refuse to believe this.


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## pink_lady (Dec 1, 2012)

treyvion said:


> And they probably recognize YOU as well, or another YOU in any environment. Perhaps they figure your like that magical cube in the movie "Hell Raiser", and they get you manipulated, leveraged just right for them to have an advantage or to feel a certain way. I'm glad you pointed out they can be in families... Some of us refuse to believe this.


Oh yes, they are very good at seeking out those who will make a good target. People who grew up with NPDs in their families and are trying to 'fix' that relationship, people with low self-esteem, people who want to rescue or help others, etc.

I kept most of my H's emails from way back. If I posted the letter he wrote after we first met, ya'll would be stunned that a person actually fell for the drivel. Once you know the signs, it's very easy to spot an N. Clear as day in his emails.

The very first 2 times we talked on the phone he did not ask me ONE question about myself. I knew this was a red flag and I almost nipped the thing in the bud right then. But he was funny, intelligent, vegetarian...my age...didn't want kids...wasn't religious...I figured there weren't many men around that matched me in so many ways, so I kept talking to him. Big mistake that I will not make again.


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## pink_lady (Dec 1, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> His idea of seduction was to say "wanna F?" and to just start without permission if I was asleep. He bluntly told me I should be willing to let him use my body any way he wanted to.


My H's idea of initiating sex was basically the same. He would say 'Let's do it' and that was supposed to be enough to get me in the mood, I guess. I think he resented even having to say it at all.

He always wanted me to coax and seduce him and then do all the work. And of course I should always be in a certain kind of lingerie, make-up and hair done.

Meanwhile he would deliberately come to bed without brushing his teeth, forcing me to ask him to go brush them as tasting his dinner was not exactly turning me on.

I have to say, I don't miss this person at all. I feel angry that I wasted years of my life with him. I'm almost to the point of feeling sorry for him. If I thought there was any chance of therapy helping him, I would do my best to get him into it somehow. But from what I've read, NPDs are pretty much hopeless cases.


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## SweetDee47 (Jun 1, 2013)

Underneath that narcissist is a boiling cauldron of seething poison that is concealed by a mask of glib, charming countenance when you first meet them. It's just amazing how they camoflage themselves, but when the mask is pulled off - it can be frightening how evil they are.[/QUOTE]


Absolutely! You feel like you never really knew them at all....but on the upside it confirms your decision to walk away is the right thing to do....


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## SweetDee47 (Jun 1, 2013)

I think the big part of the problem is victims of the NPDs are always thought to be crazy. Like they are exaggerating the abuse they suffered because these NPDs will appear as perfect little saints to everyone else...and quite often NPDs will try to assassinate your character, whether through friends or family and they usually can lie better then you can tell the truth....


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

SaltInWound said:


> Considering they have no sense of self, and have extremely low self esteem, I would sooner believe that their exhibited confidence is just a fake as everything else about them.


This thread is like a revelation to me - I am sure that my exes self confidence was fake because in the rare moments he let his guard down he exhibited real self-loathing. Then his natural belligerence came to the fore so who knows, maybe that was fake too!


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

> Pink_Lady: Oh yes, they are very good at seeking out those who will make a good target. People who grew up with NPDs in their families and are trying to 'fix' that relationship, people with low self-esteem, people who want to rescue or help others, etc.


:iagree:

Around the time that I became a sitting duck for my narc/abuser, I was pretty vulnerable. I was still coming to terms with 3 family bereavements, a major geographical move and my son had flown the nest and was doing his own thing. The narc's 'love' and constant attention felt like manna from heaven back then, and I was ravenous for it...


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Yes, reading this thread is like a capsule of my relationship with my Ex. Totally love-bombed in the beginning. NO self-esteem, narcsissistic mother that I was living with and taking care of, no experience with relationships, etc. There were things that made me uncomfortable about his excessive 'adoration' but he assured me it was just because I wasn't used to being treated nicely by someone. That was actually true, but I can see now that my misgivings were not just based on lack of experience. It was my gut telling me to watch out. He basically started discarding me when I expected him to do things regular people do, like help around the house, stay faithful, not be emotionally abusive, etc.

Ex swings from almost laughable arrogance to extremes of self-loathing. He needs to be adored, not just liked -- he needs to be *adored*. When he started a new semester, he would say that it wasn't enough to get the best grade in the class, that the professor had better think he was the best student he/she'd ever taught, *or it would show that the professor was an idiot.* He often was, as he's quite intelligent, which didn't help. 

And oddly, even though he constantly sought adoration from female friends, had multiple EAs, and had very few male friends, he chose very few university courses taught by females. And when he had no choice, he was extremely derogatory towards them (behind their backs, of course). 

And it's absolutely true that his charm fools everyone who didn't know both of us (I'm not counting his family, as his splitting of me, and consequent blackening of me and changing our history has affected my relationship with them -- and who knows how much his FOO made him the way he is, anyway?) But around here, there's a very big difference in the way he's treated by people who knew/saw both of us closely, and those who knew just him. He told me when we were having trouble, but still together, that his friends criticized me when they came over, because I seemed so uncomfortable and nervous and insecure. Well, yes, I was, partially as a result of my upbringing in my dysfunctional family, but mainly because of the pressure he was putting on me behind the scenes and leading up to the event. He was charming host to them, but criticizing me like crazy for how I was, every time we were alone in the kitchen. Around our guests, he ignored me like I wasn't there. 'Dinner parties' were an automatic exercise in humiliation and abuse for me, so, no I didn't look forward to them. Yet, I'm looked at as crazy and evil for saying he was abusive, and I have no doubt that my continued participation in DV support groups is viewed as some kind of show-boating, particularly by his _female_ friends. It was around the time I started going that big changes happened with the way they all treated me. 

He is now living with his last EA partner, who is herself quite manipulative. So far, he is a decent father, and she treats our son fairly well, from what I can see. But since I'm experienced in this, I worry that when he starts puberty and begins that push-back, Ex's feelings about him will start to change. Whenever DS misbehaves, he is treated much more harshly than when we were together, and he gets very angry at DS, and isn't sensitive to him at all regarding our D or posGF moving in. I am keeping on my toes so that I can help DS if he needs it. I don't want him ending up like I did.

If it wasn't for worrying about DS, it would just be interesting to sit back and watch what happens when two cheaters and manipulators get together.

******

I am throwing this out there for the rest of you. After our split, and especially when posGF finally moved in, I somehow had the idea that his treatment of me would improve. That if he was happier, had moved on to another 'love' (i.e., supply), we could reach some sort of, for lack of a better word, friendship. Like I wouldn't have to be on my toes, waiting for the next nasty behavior. Like happens for 'normal' divorces, maybe. But from what I've seen the splitting is permanent. I am irredeemable in his eyes. He always assumes the worst of me, unless it's something inconsequential, or if acting nice towards me makes him look good to someone watching. 

Does this seem the same for those of you dealing with your narc exes?


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