# Your spouse cheated on you? That's on them, not you



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Because even if you were a bad husband/wife/significant other, they could have told you what you needed to do to fix it, or threatened you with divorce, rather than just stepping out on you.

Take responsibility for your actions, yes. But don't take responsibility for their actions.

That's down to them.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

What if they have told you but you didn't listen, and there are external issues (like children) that make it very difficult for them to divorce.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

uhtred said:


> What if they have told you but you didn't listen, and there are external issues (like children) that make it very difficult for them to divorce.


Cheating is still the wrong answer. Understandable, perhaps but still the wrong answer.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Not sure I always agree.

Imagine a woman who is in a great marriage, with a couple of kids, except her husband has no interest in sex. Is it really better for her to divorce, than to just have some flings on the side? Think how hard this is to explain to children - "Mommy i leaving daddy because daddy won't have sex". 


Without kids, I think the answer is much clearer.







MattMatt said:


> Cheating is still the wrong answer. Understandable, perhaps but still the wrong answer.


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## blazer prophet (Jun 1, 2019)

It's like you say, MattMatt, betrayers always have options aside from betraying. One of those is to leave the relationship.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

uhtred said:


> Not sure I always agree.
> 
> Imagine a woman who is in a great marriage, with a couple of kids, except her husband has no interest in sex. Is it really better for her to divorce, than to just have some flings on the side? Think how hard this is to explain to children - "Mommy i leaving daddy because daddy won't have sex".
> 
> ...


It's probably just me, but I think if one person controls the sexual relationship to the point of extreme infrequency or non-existence, they should give their spouse/partner permission to see other people. Neither may want to divorce, but neither should control the sex life like that either.

Something that has always been puzzling and ridiculous to me is the wife who doesn't have sex with her husband, and then cries "he cheated on me" because he was with someone else. I have a hard time equating that to cheatingand should be called something else entirely, something that isn't hurtful or offensive. How could it be considered cheating if you and he don't sex?


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

StarFires said:


> uhtred;1990378 is much clearer.[/quote said:
> 
> 
> > It's probably just me, but I think if one person controls the sexual relationship to the point of extreme infrequency or non-existence, they should give their spouse/partner permission to see other people. Neither may want to divorce, but neither should control the sex life like that either.
> ...


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> Cheating is still the wrong answer. *Understandable*, perhaps but still the wrong answer.


It seems.....

We have gotten an *understandable* response from you, the first.

Understandable is the first step towards, seeing, owning humility.

All is understandable, much, maybe most is not 'standable', hence, hated.

People are what they are, what you allow them to be.

The better person is one who can sincerely rationalize most anything away.

A person who can do this is a potato or a Saint.

Accepting all that life throws at you and moving on is near, dang near impossible.
For most, but those few some Philosophers and those Saints.

It is also possible for big time sinners, those who have harmed others see from whence it comes.
It comes from the dark side of mankind, no, from the dark side of a self serving existence, the dark side of the Moon.

Bugs and germs are self serving, we are only a few steps away from that.....place.





[THM]- King Brian


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

uhtred said:


> Not sure I always agree.
> 
> Imagine a woman who is in a great marriage, with a couple of kids, except her husband has no interest in sex. Is it really better for her to divorce, than to just have some flings on the side? Think how hard this is to explain to children - "Mommy i leaving daddy because daddy won't have sex".


WHAT?? OF COURSE it is better to divorce than to be a rotten cheater! 

But do see below...




StarFires said:


> It's probably just me, but I think if one person controls the sexual relationship to the point of extreme infrequency or non-existence, they should give their spouse/partner permission to see other people. Neither may want to divorce, but neither should control the sex life like that either.


While this leaves a bad taste in my mouth, it certainly can be an option for some. My aunt and uncle had this arrangement. 




StarFires said:


> Something that has always been puzzling and ridiculous to me is the wife who doesn't have sex with her husband, and then cries "he cheated on me" because he was with someone else. I have a hard time equating that to cheatingand should be called something else entirely, something that isn't hurtful or offensive. How could it be considered cheating if you and he don't sex?



But this, NO. Husband should divorce her if she refuses to meet her needs, not go out and cheat on her! 

WTF, people???


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Like just about everything in life, binary black and white answers don't suffice to solve every complex problem. 

Seems to me the people who get to decide what is best for their marriage are not necessarily those of us outside it.

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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

uhtred said:


> Not sure I always agree.
> 
> Imagine a woman who is in a great marriage, with a couple of kids, except her husband has no interest in sex. Is it really better for her to divorce, than to just have some flings on the side? Think how hard this is to explain to children - "Mommy i leaving daddy because daddy won't have sex".
> 
> Without kids, I think the answer is much clearer.


So, while I take your "take" with a grain of salt based on your situation, no offense, the answer for me is just no. For a lot of reasons. 

While the cheater, may like everything about the relationship, except no sex, it does not now or at any time make it right. 

But honestly, I guess a lot of people live like this, but it is a lie. A lie to the kids, a lie to the other spouse, and a lie to the world. I personally don't like lying. But that is just me, maybe. 

Further, in reality for the most part, it is not a "real" relationship, the way that I define it, it is still fake. 

I have friends, plenty of them. But I only have "one" wife, SO, or whatever. Or at this stage of my life I just have one, and I only want one. Other ages were different. 

Why would I want to be with someone that did not sexually desire me? This is the one part that I cannot figure out. Maybe people a live with asexual, or super LD partners really feel differently, and I try to understand their perspective, but I cannot. 

Now, if the spouse that wanted sex asked or told the other spouse the they were going to have a BF/GF because they wanted sex, that would be different. It would not work for me at this stage, for one reason... because I want it all. 

I want a loving partner, I want great sex, I want desire, I want all the other things the a relationship/marriage has to offer, and for me, I just will not settle for any less than what I want. 

I get that people do this, but I think it is dishonest and wrong, unless the other spouse is aware...


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

uhtred said:


> Not sure I always agree.
> 
> Imagine a woman *who is in a great marriage*, with a couple of kids, except her husband has *no interest in sex.* Is it really better for her to divorce, than to just have some flings on the side? Think how hard this is to explain to children - "Mommy i leaving daddy because daddy won't have sex".
> 
> ...


Your premise is flawed. If there is no sex, then it is not a "great marriage."

Nor do you have to tell young children anything in explicit terms.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

My wife gave me the option of seeking sex (but not love) from other women several years ago.

But I turned her idea down.

Fraught with too many potential problems and pitfalls in my opinion.


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## nekonamida (Feb 21, 2017)

I don't consider it cheating if you have permission but this is a big issue I see with uhtred's proposal. It's a messy situation by nature. It's always just sex until it's not. It's always a secret until it's not. It sounds good in theory but rarely does it play out where everything is fine and no one gets hurt.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> My wife gave me the option of seeking sex (but not love) from other women several years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Then you made the correct choice for your marriage.

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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Here's a decent discussion on why it is not a universal given that divorce is preferable to cheating for all couples in all situations for all time (which, after all, is what always means). 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sou...aw3hasacMWCx7aXHr573dvwR&ust=1561143085210016

Both break a marital promise, and different couples may weigh differently which is the more egregious offense.

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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

The responsibility of the infidelity lies solely with the cheater.

If something is missing in the marriage, there are options that don't hurt people. If all of those options fail then there is still the separation and/or divorce route. 

A betrayed spouse should never feel responsible for the actions of the cheating spouse. There is no excuse.

A betrayed spouse should however take responsibility for their own actions and behaviours that led to the downfall of the marriage.


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## Spoons027 (Jun 19, 2017)

Well sure, actual adultery would be considered ‘okay’ if you’re in an abusive relationship or you’re absolutely sure that your ‘denying’ spouse won’t care, but if you have a decent spouse that’s at least receptive to blunt, honest communication, then that’s a pretty crappy action to take.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

The first time.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Spoons027 said:


> *Well sure, actual adultery would be considered ‘okay’ if you’re in an abusive relationship or you’re absolutely sure that your ‘denying’ spouse won’t care,* but if you have a decent spouse that’s at least receptive to blunt, honest communication, then that’s a pretty crappy action to take.


Um, no.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> Spoons027 said:
> 
> 
> > *Well sure, actual adultery would be considered ‘okay’ if you’re in an abusive relationship or you’re absolutely sure that your ‘denying’ spouse won’t care,* but if you have a decent spouse that’s at least receptive to blunt, honest communication, then that’s a pretty crappy action to take.
> ...


3x is right.

There is no excuse for adultery, ever.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Agreed, but it happens surprisingly often in HD/LD relationships, and both genders.

Often the LD person things that the HD person should not *want* sex, or that "normal" people don't need that much sex, or "Sex is just for making babies" or some such. The HD person is portrayed as a perv / slXX/ old goat / whatever, and their sexual desires mocked.


I agree that if you constantly turn your partner down for sex, you shouldn't be surprised if they cheat. The it *is* on you.







StarFires said:


> It's probably just me, but I think if one person controls the sexual relationship to the point of extreme infrequency or non-existence, they should give their spouse/partner permission to see other people. Neither may want to divorce, but neither should control the sex life like that either.
> 
> Something that has always been puzzling and ridiculous to me is the wife who doesn't have sex with her husband, and then cries "he cheated on me" because he was with someone else. I have a hard time equating that to cheatingand should be called something else entirely, something that isn't hurtful or offensive. How could it be considered cheating if you and he don't sex?


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

StarFires said:


> It's probably just me, but I think if one person controls the sexual relationship to the point of extreme infrequency or non-existence, they should give their spouse/partner permission to see other people. Neither may want to divorce, but neither should control the sex life like that either.
> 
> Something that has always been puzzling and ridiculous to me is the wife who doesn't have sex with her husband, and then cries "he cheated on me" because he was with someone else. I have a hard time equating that to cheatingand should be called something else entirely, something that isn't hurtful or offensive. How could it be considered cheating if you and he don't sex?



I agree with you in that there WAS cheating. the cheating was by the spouse who withheld sex/intimacy. isn't that part of your vows...."love, honor and cherish" thing?

I think the term cheating is widely reserved for affairs, but in reality there are other ways to cheat (breaking a vow).


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> My wife gave me the option of seeking sex (but not love) from other women several years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I thought you did sleep with someone else and then hated it? Or am I going senile.

Either way, very often when people suggest such things, it’s because they would want that themselves.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

uhtred said:


> Not sure I always agree.
> 
> Imagine a woman who is in a great marriage, with a couple of kids, except her husband has no interest in sex. Is it really better for her to divorce, than to just have some flings on the side? Think how hard this is to explain to children - "Mommy i leaving daddy because daddy won't have sex".
> 
> ...


So, the person is "staying for the kids" and then risks their children's family stability by cheating? Makes no sense to me.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Imagine you were in a mostly happy marriage with a couple of kids, you as homemaker, husband working. Husband decided no more sex, or more realistically wanted occasional very selfish sex. (a few minutes of PIV pounding until he got off).

Would you break that up, need to either leave your kids mostly with him, or maybe move them to a much poorer neighborhood that you could afford without his income (since it was a decade since you worked and you don't have marketable skills - maybe can't get a job at all). Pull the kids away from their friends / school. Sure there is alimony and child support, but it doesn't reproduce anything like the previous standard of living, and the courts are going to assign joint custody. 

You love your husband, he just doesn't want sex. 

What do you tell your kids? 

I think the reality of leaving a marriage with children is much harder than many people think. 




Red Sonja said:


> So, the person is "staying for the kids" and then risks their children's family stability by cheating? Makes no sense to me.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

InMyPrime said:


> I thought you did sleep with someone else and then hated it? Or am I going senile.
> 
> Either way, very often when people suggest such things, it’s because they would want that themselves.
> 
> ...


No, that was an entirely different incident. And luckily I was able to stop that incident just before sex occurred.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

GotLifeBack said:


> 3x is right.
> 
> There is no excuse for adultery, ever.


I agree but it should be said that human nature being what it is, if you abuse or even severally neglect your spouse you are putting yourself in danger of that. Not treating your spouse well is a bad strategy in life.


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## Spoons027 (Jun 19, 2017)

GotLifeBack said:


> 3Xnocharm said:
> 
> 
> > Spoons027 said:
> ...


Didn’t think so. The response I gave was a response I’ve seen once. Wanted to see how that would’ve been received here.

Though I do have to agree with sokillme that abusing/severely mistreating/severely neglecting your spouse could open them up to making desperate decisions and thus isn’t really acceptable either.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

uhtred said:


> Imagine you were in a mostly happy marriage with a couple of kids, you as homemaker, husband working. Husband decided no more sex, or more realistically wanted occasional very selfish sex. (a few minutes of PIV pounding until he got off).
> 
> Would you break that up, need to either leave your kids mostly with him, or maybe move them to a much poorer neighborhood that you could afford without his income (since it was a decade since you worked and you don't have marketable skills - maybe can't get a job at all). Pull the kids away from their friends / school. Sure there is alimony and child support, but it doesn't reproduce anything like the previous standard of living, and the courts are going to assign joint custody.
> 
> ...


But the marriage won't be happy or mostly happy for long. A hd/ld situation is a long term problem. You can self justify an affair and it's just sex but it's a temporary divesion at best. Sooner or later feelings get in the way especially the longer an affair goes on. Do you become the town bicycle and have a revolving door of partners so you don't develop feelings? The love a spouse may have for a ld partner will wither and die as resentment builds. Kids eventually grow up, then what. Youve still got the hd/ld dynamic. 

Yes leaving a marriage with kids is hard but avoiding the issue and creating a much bigger mess down the road is hardly a good solution.


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

sokillme said:


> GotLifeBack said:
> 
> 
> > 3x is right.
> ...


Abuse is unacceptable too.

I suppose if one spouse behaves in an unacceptable way, they shouldn't be surprised when the other does.

Neither actions are excusable though.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

I spent 6 years being married to someone I knew was gay (or bisexual, still not sure) who clearly wanted nothing to do with me sexually. I stayed "for the kids" and I did not cheat. At the very end of my marriage as I was trying to get up the courage to completely change my kids' lives and end the marriage I had an ex boyfriend get in touch. He made it very clear he was down for starting something up. I declined. I hadn't had sex in 6 years and I knew my husband was gay. I still declined, because cheating is just wrong no matter what. 

And I have a hard time believing a marriage without sex is otherwise perfect. I think it might be a perfect friendship, but it's not a real romantic relationship. Once intimacy goes away, it starts to affect the entire rest of the relationship.

Having said all that, I think it's completely awful and unfair, maybe even cruel for a person to expect both monogamy and celibacy from their spouse. If you really don't want your spouse, for God's sake set them free to go find love elsewhere.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Spoons027 said:


> Well sure, actual adultery would be considered ‘okay’ if you’re in an abusive relationship or you’re absolutely sure that your ‘denying’ spouse won’t care, but if you have a decent spouse that’s at least receptive to blunt, honest communication, then that’s a pretty crappy action to take.


Partly right, I'd say. If the 'denying' spouse won't care because _you've discussed it and they have given their permission_, then adultery is okay. Technically it's still adultery but it isn't cheating.

Abuse doesn't make it okay, but it makes it understandable.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

notmyjamie said:


> I spent 6 years being married to someone I knew was gay (or bisexual, still not sure) who clearly wanted nothing to do with me sexually. I stayed "for the kids" and I did not cheat. At the very end of my marriage as I was trying to get up the courage to completely change my kids' lives and end the marriage I had an ex boyfriend get in touch. He made it very clear he was down for starting something up. I declined. I hadn't had sex in 6 years and I knew my husband was gay. I still declined, because cheating is just wrong no matter what.
> 
> And I have a hard time believing a marriage without sex is otherwise perfect. I think it might be a perfect friendship, but it's not a real romantic relationship. Once intimacy goes away, it starts to affect the entire rest of the relationship.
> 
> Having said all that, *I think it's completely awful and unfair, maybe even cruel for a person to expect both monogamy and celibacy from their spouse.* If you really don't want your spouse, for God's sake set them free to go find love elsewhere.


That's very true and pretty black and white when we're talking about complete celibacy. It gets very grey very fast when we're talking about merely low frequency and/or unenthusiastic engagement.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> That's very true and pretty black and white when we're talking about complete celibacy. It gets very grey very fast when we're talking about merely low frequency and/or unenthusiastic engagement.


Absolutely agree. A difference in libido is one thing. No desire at all for your spouse is another.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Agreed . One problem is that often the LD person doesn't see themselves as LD, but thinks they are normal. They may honestly believe that 3 miutes of PIV, once a month, with no foreplay is a normal and good sex life. 



notmyjamie said:


> snip
> 
> Having said all that, I think it's completely awful and unfair, maybe even cruel for a person to expect both monogamy and celibacy from their spouse. If you really don't want your spouse, for God's sake set them free to go find love elsewhere.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

uhtred said:


> Agreed . One problem is that often the LD person doesn't see themselves as LD, but thinks they are normal. They may honestly believe that 3 miutes of PIV, once a month, with no foreplay is a normal and good sex life.



Indeed. At one point, my wife kept a diary so if I ever expressed dissatisfaction with frequency, she could show me the proof.

When I mentioned we should have been getting busy more she told me I was wrong because we had been having _A LOT _of sex. _A LOT!_ With emphasis, *A LOT!!!
*

I, of course disagreed. 

So she consulted her diary, which revealed a pretty steady once-a-week pace (with a few misses here and there). 

And she was quite honest and genuine that she thought that was a lot. Nothing I could say, no evidence I could produce, could possibly convince her otherwise. It was A LOT for her.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> And she was quite honest and genuine that she thought that was a lot. Nothing I could say, no evidence I could produce, could possibly convince her otherwise. It was A LOT for her.


There is no evidence you could produce that would show her otherwise because TO HER, this WAS a lot. Neither of you was wrong. Not everyone has the same need. To me, once a week is not a lot, but it IS consistent and steady. This was pretty much the frequency in my second marriage, once or twice a week, and my XH used to rant to whoever would listen about how we NEVER had sex. That hurt me and made me feel incompetent, because it wasnt true, but the fact that this is how he saw things really cut me. (It would have been more often if he hadnt been such a critical jackass and foreplay more than him shoving his hand in my crotch.) So one size does not fit all, for sure. 

To stay on subject, there was no cheating in that marriage, for sure not by me. Him, I honestly am not sure all these years later.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

I feel there's absolutely no justification for an affair, but I do understand that certain conditions will create the environment where having an affair is more likely. No intimacy is not a justification for having an affair, but it will certainly make it more likely. Humans are very fallible and morally flexible. If an unhappy spouse wants something, they can always come up with a convoluted way to justify that it's okay. 

But even when someone has an affair, typically there are linked reasons for how they feel justified. "I had an affair because we stopped having sex." "We stopped having sex because I was overwhelmed with the kids." "I don't have time to help with the kids because I had to take on a second job when you quit to be a SAHM." and so on. Even if there's an affair and it leads to a divorce, I often get the sense that there were preceding issues which could have just as easily lead to a divorce. An affair often springs from a nearly-dead marriage.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

3Xnocharm said:


> There is no evidence you could produce that would show her otherwise because *TO HER, this WAS a lot.* Neither of you was wrong. Not everyone has the same need. To me, once a week is not a lot, but it IS consistent and steady. This was pretty much the frequency in my second marriage, once or twice a week, and my XH used to rant to whoever would listen about how we NEVER had sex. That hurt me and made me feel incompetent, because it wasnt true, but the fact that this is how he saw things really cut me. (It would have been more often if he hadnt been such a critical jackass and foreplay more than him shoving his hand in my crotch.) So one size does not fit all, for sure.
> 
> To stay on subject, there was no cheating in that marriage, for sure not by me. Him, I honestly am not sure all these years later.


That was my whole point. 

Fortunately, she never felt incompetent or inadequate as a result. As far as she was concerned, it was all my problem and chalked it up to tough **** buddy. Grow up, get over it, and move on.

The additional problem that eventually arose was her thinking I only wanted her for sex. Now when she said that, that really hurt and cut me. Probably the most harmful thing she's ever said in our relationship. It's one thing to have differences, but if she thinks so poorly of me, that's hard to overcome. 

Oh, btw, I wasn't critical and I've always been a big fan of foreplay, and even before the foreplay, courting and wooing.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> No, that was an entirely different incident. And luckily I was able to stop that incident just before sex occurred.



I thought you said you actually (revenge?) cheated but then felt crappy about it.
Didn’t realise it didn’t happen.
By different incident, you mean with a different wife/partner?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Because even if you were a bad husband/wife/significant other, they could have told you what you needed to do to fix it, or threatened you with divorce, rather than just stepping out on you.
> 
> *Take responsibility for your actions, yes. But don't take responsibility for their actions.
> 
> That's down to them.*


*It still doesn't do you a hell of a lot of good to get kicked to the curb by them like that! More especially if you don't have the first damned clue that her infidelity is going on! *


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## GotLifeBack (Sep 12, 2013)

arbitrator said:


> *It still doesn't do you a hell of a lot of good to get kicked to the curb by them like that! More especially if you don't have the first damned clue that her infidelity is going on! *


At the start no... but any life change is an opportunity to learn, to grow. As much as a newly betrayed spouse will think I'm crazy, but it is what you make it.

My ex wife cheating on me was the catalyst I needed to sort my own issues out. 

It wasn't her intention, so I give her no credit... but in the long run it worked out great for me 😉


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

StarFires said:


> It's probably just me, but I think if one person controls the sexual relationship to the point of extreme infrequency or non-existence, they should give their spouse/partner permission to see other people. Neither may want to divorce, but neither should control the sex life like that either.
> 
> Something that has always been puzzling and ridiculous to me is the wife who doesn't have sex with her husband, and then cries "he cheated on me" because he was with someone else. I have a hard time equating that to cheatingand should be called something else entirely, something that isn't hurtful or offensive. How could it be considered cheating if you and he don't sex?


I often thought this *with regards to men* who are low desire, not sexually interested or are just too damn busy to participate.

How is it that they expect their love-starved wife to 'just suck it up'?

Of course, the wife should first state her dissatisfaction and demand that he make needed changes, not just go out and cheat.

Of course, yes, of course, of course, but I cannot wait, so, of course, I cheated.
Sorry!

If you want to be burned, stick your finger in the flames, or close your eyes when your house is smoking, and forget that flames are likely following, close behind.





[THM]- Lilith


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Everyone must be responsible for their actions. Your actions may influence my decisions, positively or negatively - but they're still my decisions. If you mistreat me or neglect me, then don't expect loyalty and fidelity - you may technically be owed them, but not deserve them. Actions have consequences, so think ahead to what yours may incur. IMO, you are not perfect, and neither am I - if we don't work to bring out the best in each other, we may bring out the worst.


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## hptessla (Jun 4, 2019)

Personally, and I have a wife who weaponized sex (as in cutting it off completely) almost 5 years ago, I did not take vows that allow me to break them. They were not conditional in any way, as in as long as you _ _ _ _ I will _ _ _ _. The vows were what I would do and they were vows I made willingly; certainly with different expectations than the reality turned out to be.

What if my wife was in a car accident the day after the wedding and boom, she's in a coma that lasts years. Would anyone think me a stand up guy if I left her? How many parents among us will disown their child if they make a series of bad choices and end up on drugs, alcoholic, in prison, etc.? We don't even take vows related to our kids but rarely do parents abandon them simply because they aren't headed where we thought they would be.

So what if I'm unhappy, I can still be content and have joy in my life. Happiness is by nature an impermanent state, it comes and it goes. My internal well being and sense of self are determined by my own actions. My wife cheated on me, is that on me or on her...who did she damage, me? I haven't had sex with her or anyone else going on 5 years. I'd like to have sex certainly but at this time in my life it's not an option, again is that a reflection on me or is it a reflection of her? Clearly I could hold out longer than she did so who did she really turn the weapon of sex on...me, herself or her married AP and his wife? I look in the mirror and none of those are the things that haunt me with their reflection; the things I have done or not done do that. It sounds very theoretical but these are the true realities. Mostly they are too painful and confusing to face. when I lay dying I suspect that the regrets I have will not be that my wife cheated, that she withheld sex, that I didn't divorce her or have sex with someone else while I was married. I suspect they will be the things I failed to live up to my standards and potential in.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

uhtred said:


> Often the LD person things that the HD person should not *want* sex, or that "normal" people don't need that much sex, or "Sex is just for making babies" or some such. The HD person is portrayed as a perv / slXX/ old goat / whatever, and their sexual desires mocked.


That's a simple conversation, which starts with: "Yes I am an old goat/perv whatever, I/we can end this now or I/we can be open or discrete. Yet you should be aware I am not going to settle for less. Since just as you are entitled to wanting and having less, I am also entitled to wanting and having more.

Those who choose to abandon marital fidelity are responsible for that choice. Yet that doesn't mean such choices are always the worst choices to make. Sure cheating sexually is most certainly poor form, yet adultery absent cheating certainly isn't always poor form at all.

At the end of the day having through choice, never cheated on any of my sexual partners. I would have no problem at all with seeking sex elsewhere openly or discretely, if ever I found myself in a sexual relationship with someone who decided to turn their sex tap off.

In the absence of there being any or much sex in a sexual relationship. Some of us think that such conditions, void any entitlement to sexual fidelity gong forward. Of which if someone thinks like that, they tend not to have a problem with such choices and tend not to disown them as well.

So although some people here may not share my point of view on this. It is worth understanding that I am not alone in having that point of view.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Fortunately, she never felt incompetent or inadequate as a result. As far as she was concerned, it was all my problem and chalked it up to tough **** buddy. Grow up, get over it, and move on.


If my wife had that attitude and had sex with me as infrequently as your wife did. I would agree with her that it was my problem and that I ought to get over it. To which I would happily have the I can be discreet or open, yet like you I will not compromise conversation.



> The additional problem that eventually arose was her thinking I only wanted her for sex. Now when she said that, that really hurt and cut me. Probably the most harmful thing she's ever said in our relationship. It's one thing to have differences, but if she thinks so poorly of me, that's hard to overcome.


I'm greedy and have wanted my sexual partners for more things than just sex.

Yet whenever I have been told by a sexual partner (including my wife) that I only want them for sex, I have had no problem immediately agreeing with them. Rather than be hurt by such assertions, I have always taken them as compliments.

Some people are happy with wanting or getting less sex, while other aren't. At the end of the day whoever each person is, I think they should be true to themselves and act accordingly.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

hptessla said:


> Personally, and I have a wife who weaponized sex (as in cutting it off completely) almost 5 years ago, I did not take vows that allow me to break them. They were not conditional in any way, as in as long as you _ _ _ _ I will _ _ _ _. The vows were what I would do and they were vows I made willingly; certainly with different expectations than the reality turned out to be.
> 
> What if my wife was in a car accident the day after the wedding and boom, she's in a coma that lasts years. Would anyone think me a stand up guy if I left her? How many parents among us will disown their child if they make a series of bad choices and end up on drugs, alcoholic, in prison, etc.? We don't even take vows related to our kids but rarely do parents abandon them simply because they aren't headed where we thought they would be.
> 
> So what if I'm unhappy, I can still be content and have joy in my life. Happiness is by nature an impermanent state, it comes and it goes. My internal well being and sense of self are determined by my own actions. My wife cheated on me, is that on me or on her...who did she damage, me? I haven't had sex with her or anyone else going on 5 years. I'd like to have sex certainly but at this time in my life it's not an option, again is that a reflection on me or is it a reflection of her? Clearly I could hold out longer than she did so who did she really turn the weapon of sex on...me, herself or her married AP and his wife? I look in the mirror and none of those are the things that haunt me with their reflection; the things I have done or not done do that. It sounds very theoretical but these are the true realities. Mostly they are too painful and confusing to face. when I lay dying I suspect that the regrets I have will not be that my wife cheated, that she withheld sex, that I didn't divorce her or have sex with someone else while I was married. I suspect they will be the things I failed to live up to my standards and potential in.


Her cheating is not on you but staying married to a wife who cheats on you and "weaponized sex" is 100% on you.


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## hptessla (Jun 4, 2019)

sokillme said:


> Her cheating is not on you but staying married to a wife who cheats on you and "weaponized sex" is 100% on you.


Exactly.


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