# Anyone here been burnt more than once after their WS PROMISED to be faithful forever?



## still.hurting (Dec 10, 2012)

I'm interested to hear has there been anyone here that has been betrayed by their spouse, went through recovery and MC, etc... And thinking they were doing everything right and their relationship was stronger than ever, only to be betrayed again?

If so, what characteristics did/does your WS have? I'm wanting to hear any hints to what to look out for and how long after R did it take for them to stray again? 

What were their excuses this time, or did they have any? Did they walk away or did they try and convince you it would definitely be the 'last' time?

What were they like throughout your recovery, did they change excuses for why it happened eg; tell you that you had a part to play for their infidelity and then turn around and say no no it was all me???

I would like to hear stories just to compare my WS to other WS that have cheated again, after they have promised they NEVER would again...
I'm trying to work out if I really am with a serial cheater...?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Can't quote statistics but I would guess that more have been burnt a second time than not.


----------



## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

I think if a cheater is caught and can see the pain in your eyes, and can see the hurt they have caused and they have the ability to do this again, then they are not a worthy spouse and I personally would never give any one more than one chance!


----------



## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

After 7 years of reconciliation, my WW had a full blown (no pun intended) PA. I did catch her a number of times in EA's which quite possibly have progressed further. My ears perked up when she started the "the i love you, but not in love with you" lines(again). Among others, like closely guarded phone. Changing passwords, opening up yahoo, and gmail accounts. Disapearing all day on grocery shopping trips, only to come home with just a few items. Overall just stupid stuff like that. Guess my WW didnt think I was paying attention. My sons and I are all better that she is left and gone(mostly).


----------



## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

this could be a long thread!


----------



## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

Your cheater will cheat on YOU.This doesn't mean they can never stop, but you will never be able to trust them out of your sight.


----------



## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

hookares said:


> Your cheater will cheat on YOU.This doesn't mean they can never stop, but you will never be able to trust them out of your sight.


Actually I do now trust my WH, if I didn't he would be gone!

Having said that, it doesn't mean he wont cheat on me again....but nobody can say that about anyone.......can they?

I would prefer to give my H the chance to make wrongs right knowing he knows what his behavior almost cost/lost him.

I know that if i D and met someone else, i would always worry that they too would cheat....at least i trust that my H has learned from almost losing me.


----------



## N_chanted (Nov 11, 2012)

my WH looked me in the face, and swore on the lives of our children that he would never risk losing us again. About a year later, i walked in on him in our house, screwing a friend of my oldest DD (over 18).

i dont know how, but i managed to forgive this too, only for him to make more promises, and i find out about additional affairs.

each time he was more callous, pulled away more. and he was more comfortable with lying to my face. in fact, after that, he started screwing my friends. 

in regards to the lies, and keeping a straight face, they say that practice makes perfect....he had plenty.


----------



## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

N_chanted said:


> my WH looked me in the face, and swore on the lives of our children that he would never risk losing us again. About a year later, i walked in on him in our house, screwing a friend of my oldest DD (over 18).
> 
> i dont know how, but i managed to forgive this too, only for him to make more promises, and i find out about additional affairs.
> 
> ...


Are you still with your WS?

That is my point, if you forgive and they break your trust again after seeing the pain they have inflicted upon you, then no R. They blew it, end of!

Otherwise, and I hate to say this.......you are allowing it!

*I think if a cheater is caught and can see the pain in your eyes, and can see the hurt they have caused and they have the ability to do this again, then they are not a worthy spouse and I personally would never give any one more than one chance!*


----------



## Rckbttm (Mar 24, 2013)

still.hurting said:


> I'm interested to hear has there been anyone here that has been betrayed by their spouse, went through recovery and MC, etc... And thinking they were doing everything right and their relationship was stronger than ever, only to be betrayed again?
> 
> If so, what characteristics did/does your WS have? I'm wanting to hear any hints to what to look out for and how long after R did it take for them to stray again?
> 
> ...


It depends on your situation of the affair? Did your WS have a EA and PA with someone who is close to them, coworker, etc. or was it more like a one night stand kind of thing? My WW had an A with a coworker for several months before I found out...she did not volunteer this info! We tried to R, with me internalizing and buying her crap of why she did it because of "problems" in our marriage... only to catch her months later with the A just being more underground and involved! Here is the thing, if your spouse is not 110% remorseful and I mean "get on your knees type" of fear of losing you and the kids be verrrrry verrrrry skeptical about what you are hearing. I can promise you that the lies and deceit will compound ten fold if you are not on top of your game with this! It sounds like you want to save your marriage but you MUST be in control from here forward and not bury your head in the sand thinking what she is saying is the truth. 

With that said:

1. Does she blame you for the A?
2. Does she avoid talking about the A?
3. Does she make eye contact when discussing your relationship?
4. Does she voluntarily say I LOVE YOU? or is it only after you say it that she offers it up?
5. REMORSE, REMORSE, REMORSE!! Cant stress it enough! 

These are just a few things to pay attention to keep your focus if you are trying to R. Keep reading TAM as there is much more experienced advice than I can offer to you from others here, I for one wished id have seen it sooner. Serial cheater? Does it matter? For me, you sh*t on me and our kids twice you are nothing but garbage and should be tossed out like so!


----------



## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

STBXH cheated shortly before we were married. I was young and totally caught up in the wedding. But I will say I believed he showed true remorse. He swore he loved me, there was alcohol involved in the chearing (and he is not a drinker). There was no evidence he ever contacted her, and we moved to another state.
Last year (27 years later) he engaged in multiple EAs/PA. 
As for the signs: He lost his job, spent all his time online, I discovered a secret cellphone, he was in a deep depression.
On Dday he showed no remorse, denied it for months, said it was my fault, our kids' fault, his dead parents' fault ........We separated.
Before the infidelity was outed, we were trying MC-he stopped. 

Was anything else happening that I didn't discover. I'll never know, and right now I don't care. He did more than enough to end the marriage. He probably did a lot more online and it never came out. Maybe those other times when he would say everything in the world was my fault, he was chearing.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Yes.

I told him the second time that I might not forgive him and turns out I didn't.


----------



## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

I don't think cheaters realize the pain they're causing the first time around. If they know the pain they are causing and do it again, they don't love you, or they don't know how to love. 

My wife got her do over. I told her I can't do it again. Not won't. Can't.


----------



## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

I think without real consequences for the WSs actions, the promise to be faithful forever is a knee-jerk reaction out of guilt and something that has been carved within us since the dawn of time, survival instinct(in very very old days you probably would get speared if you were caught cheating.Or betraying someone else in a huge manner.)


----------



## still.hurting (Dec 10, 2012)

toonaive said:


> After 7 years of reconciliation, my WW had a full blown (no pun intended) PA. I did catch her a number of times in EA's which quite possibly have progressed further. My ears perked up when she started the "the i love you, but not in love with you" lines(again). Among others, like closely guarded phone. Changing passwords, opening up yahoo, and gmail accounts. Disapearing all day on grocery shopping trips, only to come home with just a few items. Overall just stupid stuff like that. Guess my WW didnt think I was paying attention. My sons and I are all better that she is left and gone(mostly).


Oh my gosh... Was your WW remorseful in the beginning at all? When you were in R, did you both experience the 'honeymoon' stage? Did she ever stop cheating on you, was she respectful to you for a period of time? How long before she went back to her old ways...?

Sorry this happened to you, I'm glad your in a better place in your life now!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SecretTears (Jul 18, 2010)

still.hurting said:


> I'm interested to hear has there been anyone here that has been betrayed by their spouse, went through recovery and MC, etc... And thinking they were doing everything right and their relationship was stronger than ever, only to be betrayed again?
> 
> If so, what characteristics did/does your WS have? I'm wanting to hear any hints to what to look out for and how long after R did it take for them to stray again?
> 
> ...


My XWH cheated and when I told him I was moving out he told me he would never cheat again, he loved me, he chose me etc... We read books together, we went through MC and an 18 month R. Then he left me for OW.

He did blame me (partly at least) for the affair. We had a failing business and the OW was supposedly "advising" him on how to run it, he felt I didn't get it etc... At the time I thought I should share the blame but only now (after months of IC) did it finally dawn on me that there is no excuse for cheating and that it was not my fault

Some of the signs, looking back (which were way different from the red flags the first time he cheated):
- He stopped going to IC
- He was moody and depressed and complained about things that he was unhappy about in the relationship (not just normal things but things he claimed to have been unhappy about for 7-8 years, out of the blue)
- We stopped having sex
- He became obsessed about his looks and weight


----------



## still.hurting (Dec 10, 2012)

N_chanted said:


> my WH looked me in the face, and swore on the lives of our children that he would never risk losing us again. About a year later, i walked in on him in our house, screwing a friend of my oldest DD (over 18).
> 
> i dont know how, but i managed to forgive this too, only for him to make more promises, and i find out about additional affairs.
> 
> ...


Holly [email protected]! You poor thing...!

My WH has had his fair share of flirting (with a few of my friends and strangers) he's had 1 ONS in 2006 or 2007 (as he can't remember what yr or month), and 1 very big EA from Jan 2011- Aug 2011. Tho, in Aug 2011, when she decided that she didn't want anything to do with him anymore, due to fear that her fiancé would find out, he then tried to make amends with me and during this time he was hooking up with ****s on FB and other social websites, until 1st of Oct when HE made his decision that he really wanted me and his family back, he was then only faithful to me (little did I know through our R from Aug 2001-Oct 2011 that he was trying to hook up with others, I found that out late March 2012, after countless sessions in MC and after he emailed the long term EA partner to not contact him again, as she sent him an email out of the blue in Feb 2012, I felt safe at that time and then BOOM, found out what crap he was doing during our recovery in Aug 2011...

He says he woke up to himself in Oct 2011, and didn't want to come clean about 'everything' incase he lost me, and his family...

Since then, he has been quite good, sometimes he doesn't handle my triggers very well, and there was an incident in Dec 2012 where he tryed to look up on FB and Google his long time EA partner, but nothing since then (as I am aware of :-/ )
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ALWAYS TRYING (Mar 2, 2013)

Just gonna say. Yes. 30 years of me rug sweeping. He is always sorry. I'm wonderful. Can't type more now. Sorry. This was so hard to read.


----------



## still.hurting (Dec 10, 2012)

Rckbttm said:


> It depends on your situation of the affair? Did your WS have a EA and PA with someone who is close to them, coworker, etc. or was it more like a one night stand kind of thing? My WW had an A with a coworker for several months before I found out...she did not volunteer this info! We tried to R, with me internalizing and buying her crap of why she did it because of "problems" in our marriage... only to catch her months later with the A just being more underground and involved! Here is the thing, if your spouse is not 110% remorseful and I mean "get on your knees type" of fear of losing you and the kids be verrrrry verrrrry skeptical about what you are hearing. I can promise you that the lies and deceit will compound ten fold if you are not on top of your game with this! It sounds like you want to save your marriage but you MUST be in control from here forward and not bury your head in the sand thinking what she is saying is the truth.
> 
> With that said:
> 
> ...



1: does he blame me for his A's?
- No, he says he takes full responsibility for being a coward (his choice of words) for looking elsewhere instead of fixing our marriage. He does believe we are both to blame for letting our marriage get into a bad state, by both of us being disrespectful towards each other...

2: Does he avoid talking about his A's?
- YES, like trying to avoid the plague!

3: Does he make eye contact when discussing our relationship?
-YES, always, and is always telling me that he WANTS us to work and doesn't want me to be so quick to decide it's useless and hearing that I want to give up/separate or divorce...

4: does he tell me he loves me or only after I have said it to him?
-He often is the first to say how much he loves me, sometimes I don't always say it back to him (depending how I'm feeling at the time) but he will always tell me he loves me too, if I am the one to say it first...

4: Is he remorseful?*
- Yes, and has cried many times about it and has explained in much depth how much shame and agony he feels when I remind him of things...
Sometimes when I have a trigger, he will do everything right by comforting and reassuring his love and dedication to me and our family, other times (if he has had a really bad day and/or has been drinking) he's doesn't do a good job handling things, but always the next day he tries to make up for being insensitive...

The thing that worries me is; he has been this 'wonderful' husband in the past, after his ONS before I knew about his ONS, and he was equally wonderful just before he, so quickly, decided to have an EA with a girl who he hadn't seen since highschool.

So really, what's going to stop him again?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## still.hurting (Dec 10, 2012)

ALWAYS TRYING said:


> Just gonna say. Yes. 30 years of me rug sweeping. He is always sorry. I'm wonderful. Can't type more now. Sorry. This was so hard to read.


Always Trying, I'm sorry you are so effected by reading the post.. 
I sincerely wish you strength, love and happiness in your life.

Please remember, you never know what's around the corner or how life took you there...

Be strong ;-)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## still.hurting (Dec 10, 2012)

SecretTears said:


> My XWH cheated and when I told him I was moving out he told me he would never cheat again, he loved me, he chose me etc... We read books together, we went through MC and an 18 month R. Then he left me for OW.
> 
> He did blame me (partly at least) for the affair. We had a failing business and the OW was supposedly "advising" him on how to run it, he felt I didn't get it etc... At the time I thought I should share the blame but only now (after months of IC) did it finally dawn on me that there is no excuse for cheating and that it was not my fault
> 
> ...


I've read and read and re-read your post... It scares me and I hope to God it's not my fate as it was yours. You, like so many, must of gone through so much anger, hate, unanswered questions (again), must of felt like living in hell...?

It was ME who organized all our MC & my IC, he never went to IC, and probably never will?

It is me who does most of the work around the house, I still see him as a bit selfish..,

Just last night I made a joke saying he must have RSI due to us having lack of intimacy, he laughed n said no, it's because he's been too tired and life has just been way too busy...

I wonder if the signs r there and I'm missing them? All I know is I do feel like I can't talk to him the way I use to and slowly my love for him is turning into resentment. I don't know if I'm going to recover from so much hurt? Yet, I feel like I don't have the balls to say "We need to go on our separate ways...", actually, I have said this to him, but he doesn't take me seriously and I don't follow through...

I guess in the future, if or when he does betray me, I'll have no one to blame but me, cause I am the one who has stayed in a relationship where ive allowed my partner to treat me worse than I would treat an enemy, I've allowed this....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

N_chanted said:


> my WH looked me in the face, and swore on the lives of our children that he would never risk losing us again. About a year later, i walked in on him in our house, screwing a friend of my oldest DD (over 18).
> 
> i dont know how, but i managed to forgive this too, only for him to make more promises, and i find out about additional affairs.
> 
> ...


sadly, they are not your friends...best wishes just the same.


----------



## Bellavista (May 29, 2012)

Yes, but I am on a mobile device so I can't post the whole story until tomorrow morning when I am back on my computer.


----------



## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Oh yeah 

briefly kids 9 and 10 last one 2004
dd 2006 then three more after that with less significant other in between
dd 2007
The last two were Dec 11 
me in between Jan Feb 12 
and last on in March April 12 (all married men with kids )

in between the last two she commented "I can't believe what I've done as we were in the best place in all our marriage" (11 years , 15 together)!! ....er yeah 

In terms of characteristics my sbxw has Border Pers Disor with other bits thrown in and obvious that does lead her down certain pathways but ultimately the choices are her own 

She was on her knees at first after each one then gradually the excuses became re assessed / re arranged. Over time surprise surprise the reasons veered towards things I had supposedly done not done. Sadly the exposure of each one was minimal and I helped stupidly with that wanting to save her embarrassment.......its was never ever going to work on that basis alone 

I can't be arsed with the full lengthy story but if there was a competition to see which one of us on here had lived with the Queen of cake eaters - I'd be in the top 5 I reckon!!


----------



## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

Well, dad cheated on mom and got caught. 

Then he tried reconciliation, but I don't know if he ever planned on it being permanent, or if it was just a saving face attempt. 

When he picked it back up, he was working more again, saying business was picking up and that he was needed. And he would often come home late after we had eaten dinner. He would find reasons to get out of the house. 
And when he would get calls, he said they would be from his friends, or business partners. 
And I am willing to bet he changed the contacts in his phone around to make it so the OW name didn't pop up, but a partner's name or a friend's name. 

But he was eventually caught.


----------



## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

still.hurting. Everything was great the first year. By the second year, the open disrespect started again. It was at this time she said "you dont love me! you only love the idea of me!" It was a good while, and the discovery of some of her background information, that clued me into what that meant. By years 4 and 5, i uncovered two EA's for sure, and she became even more openly disrespectful and abusive towards me. By the end of year 6, she did not come home one night. She said she was going out for drinks and dinner with some work friends, and didnt come home. No phone calls or anything. I filed a missing persons report with the police at 3am. She showed up at 6am and did not have any excuses as to her behavior. She just said "I dont know what to tell you". I am divorcing her. Period! This is my story in a very small nutshell.

Im not even including her first(?)adultery and the events leading to that drama 7 years ago! I have one heck of a story to tell. But not today. I will wait till I am sprinting towards the finish line of divorce. Finally.


----------



## Bellavista (May 29, 2012)

Oct 2001 H went on overseas trip, hooked up with a woman he had met the previous year over there, came back & told me he was leaving me to marry her. In Aus you have to be separated 1 year before you can divorce. I moved 500km away with the kids after 8 months.

Oct 2002 H calls me up in a panic, he cannot go through with the D, would I agree to take him back. I agree & 5 months later we move back in together.

No TAM then, no marriage counseling and no in-depth look as what happened. Some behaviours changed for both of us, but issues really were not dealt with.

Unbeknownst to me, about 2 years later he starts emailing, texting and calling the OW again, as well as 2 other women he also found from the same country. He does not leave this country nor do they come here, it is all communication. I have no idea about this until..

May 2012 I find TAM and learn what an EA is. I join because my H is behaving strangely, he does not seem to be as connected as I am thinking he should be. I think he is falling for one of our friends and I ask him about this, he is shocked. I am suspicious, but have nothing to go on at the time.

Aug 2012 I decide to check his yahoo email, something I have not done for ages. Nothing suspicious in there, but I see a link to his phone bill and on the spur, decide to have a look. I am floored to see many many calls and texts to three overseas number.

I go to a park to be out of the house and call the numbers, first confirming what country they must be from and finding to my dismay, they were from the country I suspected. All were answered by women who would not talk to me. This was a Saturday.

I go dark on H for a day while I am figuring out how to get the information I need. Finally Monday night I confront him and he confesses all and hands over his phone. I give him a thorough run down on EAs and make him read information from credible sources. I also demand full access to his phone at all times + I set up access to his minute by minute phone log in so I can see who he contacts.

It turns out right back at the start it was the OW getting cold feet and she broke it off with him, he then took me back as his back up. Boy, did that hurt to hear! He then thought I would discover this and leave, so he had these other women as his back up plan to me. Really mixed up.

Since then he has been receiving IC and I am hopeful that there are no other women. Our communication is better overall now.

Can I say with 100% that he will be faithful forever? I can hope that this is the case, but nothing is certain. Why did I stay? Because I have hope. I will say and H knows this, anymore straying of any kind and I walk and take him to the cleaners.


----------



## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

I’ve sort of been through it twice. ‘02 was the first confrontation. Didn’t have much ‘evidence’ beyond stepping over boundaries severely and ‘possible’ adultery. There were a few months of conflict between us. Lots of promises and reassurances by her that she “gets it” and understood where my boundaries lay. Transparency was sort of started; Access to her phone, emails, etc. What didn’t really change was the attitude. Sort of a “I messed up and I am sorry. I understand why it looks bad, but you are blowing this entirely out of proportion!” (Note the *but*).. 

Watch out for the continuing excuses and blameshift toward you instead of solutions. She wanted me to fix myself. At the heart of it, she knew she did ‘wrong’ back then, but blamed and resented my reaction. She hated that I called her out and judged her. Eventually that transparency and actions for it started slacking... Took about 2 years. 

From there on out from the initial discovery, you could feel that tension between us. A line had been drawn that divided us into ‘protecting ourselves’ against each other. Everything was just sort of gravitating toward negative perceptions of each other. You could just feel it being “wrong” in your gut.

So, I’d ask yourself: Is she playing on your team, or does it feel like you are competitors?

Now that I’m in a somewhat successful R 4 years post DD on “round 2"... It feels like she is concerned about me and my well being. Not great yet since it feels like she’s walking on eggshells and afraid to do anything but follow... but it is entirely different than it’s been before.


----------



## SecretTears (Jul 18, 2010)

still.hurting said:


> I've read and read and re-read your post... It scares me and I hope to God it's not my fate as it was yours. You, like so many, must of gone through so much anger, hate, unanswered questions (again), must of felt like living in hell...?
> 
> It was ME who organized all our MC & my IC, he never went to IC, and probably never will?
> 
> ...


I'm sorry still.hurting. I don't know what to tell you. But I will be totally honest: your H's behavior doesn't look good. Another sign was that my exH stopped helping out around the house, stopped being attentive the few times we were having sex. And really honestly (I'm sorry, this is going to hurt) is that my single biggest regret, the thing that hurts me the most right now and I can't get past is the fact that I gave him another chance after his A. I should just have left. So much time and effort wasted and what a terrible emotional roller coaster. I beat myself up about it almost every day still. 

I know where you are coming from though. I totally did not have the guts to leave. But on the bright side, now that I'm single, I'm actually happy that I am not with him anymore. He lied to me for over a year, he cheated on me, he blamed me, he used me. I totally deserve better. And if I never have another significant relationship ever again in my life (which even in my darkest days I think is unlikely), I now know I prefer being single to being in a relationship where I was the only one making any kind of an effort and where I have to worry on a daily basis where he is, who he is with etc...


----------



## still.hurting (Dec 10, 2012)

SecretTears said:


> I'm sorry still.hurting. I don't know what to tell you. But I will be totally honest: your H's behavior doesn't look good. Another sign was that my exH stopped helping out around the house, stopped being attentive the few times we were having sex. And really honestly (I'm sorry, this is going to hurt) is that my single biggest regret, the thing that hurts me the most right now and I can't get past is the fact that I gave him another chance after his A. I should just have left. So much time and effort wasted and what a terrible emotional roller coaster. I beat myself up about it almost every day still.
> 
> I know where you are coming from though. I totally did not have the guts to leave. But on the bright side, now that I'm single, I'm actually happy that I am not with him anymore. He lied to me for over a year, he cheated on me, he blamed me, he used me. I totally deserve better. And if I never have another significant relationship ever again in my life (which even in my darkest days I think is unlikely), I now know I prefer being single to being in a relationship where I was the only one making any kind of an effort and where I have to worry on a daily basis where he is, who he is with etc...


Oh God, I'm feeling a bit numb right now...

Last night when H and I were watching a movie (Now Is Good) I was feeling really disappointed/shocked from his constant insensitive and to 'quick to judge' coments... I ended up saying to him how different we really are, and somehow the conversation got VERY heated and he was yelling at me... I ended up saying to him "Why are you yelling at me? Your not letting me explain my feelings, you keep talking/yelling over me..."
He said "Well explain yourself then, go on?" (in a rude tone) 
I said "I can't do this anymore. I think we are just two VERY different people, I'm sorry, I think it's best if we separate..."
He continued belittling me and saying "What because we have different views about a dumb Hollywood fake movie...? Well I'm not leaving here, if you want to break up our marriage fine, but you can find your own place to move into and marry a gay guy cause that's what type of person I think your looking for..."

I was trying to tell him it's not just over this movie, it's about everything, but I just couldn't explain things to him because of how he was talking/yelling at me, and basically my throat had the biggest lump in it, I just couldn't talk...

So, he went to bed, I stayed up doing the rest of the dishes and tiding up and fixing the babies, etc... I slept in my daughters bed, as she was at a sleepover.

The next morning; we started off civil to each other, then we had a minor disagreement (can't remember what over)... I said to him "We have to be civil to each other, we have to for everyone's sake" 
He responds "I know, it's just really hard to"
Me; "I know, but we have to. We can do this."
When he was leaving for work I said to him I hope he has a good day and hope our situation doesn't effect you too much...
He left saying "Yer right...!"

This is so hard for me, but deep down I know we really aren't right for each other AND, I know I will never ever get over what he did to me (the A's) they play on my mind ALWAYS... I constantly feel like I'm comparing myself to the OW, especially in bed, and I still don't feel like he loves me the most (I feel like I'm 2nd choice, cause the OW choose her fiancé) plus, he doesn't admire and/or yearn/crave me, like how he told the OW in thousands of texts how much he wants her and how he would fight for her till death, he doesn't fight for me...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Serial cheater: when cheating will in stages (remember it gets progressively worse)

- Becoming overly excited about things/seems happier, almost gitty
- Want more sex possibly (variable with each person)
- Start missing your calls, texts and other forms of communication here and there
- Don't allow you to see their phone, hides it, keeps it with him/her as much as possible
- The tone of voice they speak will even change even in normal everyday conversation (hard to notice sometimes) 
- Grooming hair (down there) 
- Becoming agitated when questioned about communication issues and blame you for them
- Wears cologne when he leaves the house (variable)
- Leaves the house more often with whatever excuse will get them out.
- Sex dwindles
- Become regularly irritated and bothered by you over the smallest things 
- Blames you for things you didn't even know were even issues
- All of the sudden your with a totally different person you were with two months ago. 

If I think of more I'll post them


----------



## still.hurting (Dec 10, 2012)

somethingelse said:


> Serial cheater: when cheating will in stages (remember it gets progressively worse)
> 
> - Becoming overly excited about things/seems happier, almost gitty
> - Want more sex possibly (variable with each person)
> ...


Yes, yes, YES....
To a tee, you've explained how my H acted when having his EA, very very involved (in love with her) EA...

He WAS a completely different person, so sure of himself, groomed 'down their' for his pics and video sex to her... Became less, no very less interested in what was going on in our lives (like we/our family, were boring) even tho I was in hospital due to lots n lots of pregnancy problems with our twins... He was constantly picking fights just so he could say "You don't get me, I don't think I love you anymore and "Now I know when you come back home from hospital, I should move out" 
Constantly making excuses why he couldn't come in to see me at the hospital or why he was so late coming in, AND so many excuses of why I couldn't get in contact with him on his cell -but really he was ALWAYS talking/sexting/video sexing his sl*t...!

I'm still SO mad with him being late for my bday dinner, not coming to visit me in hospital the weekend I was suppose to be allowed to go home for a day visit, but couldn't cause enzymes showed up in my blood that I was either about to have a heart attack or had had one (while I was pregnant with our twins) I couldn't get in contact with him for hours that morning, wondering where he was, he was video sexting her for nearly 3hrs....!-A.hole...! Who does that...?
So many things I'm still so mad about, but I'll just write one last one; after giving birth to our babies (who were rushed to NICU, born just before 34wks) the FIRST f'ing phone call and pic to inform how our babies were doing, WHERE TO HER..... OMFG!

Thinking of some of the things he has done to me, reasures that I have made the right decision last night to end our marriage... Cause really, how could anyone forget that sh!t...? -Not me :-(
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

somethingelse said:


> Serial cheater: when cheating will in stages (remember it gets progressively worse)
> 
> - Becoming overly excited about things/seems happier, almost gitty
> - Want more sex possibly (variable with each person)
> ...


I can relate to so much of this list, even though my H refuses point blank he had an affair, either EA or PA. I think he wanted one, or thought he did, and i'm no way convinced that he didn't!

He did have a ONS with a colleague when drunk at a works party, which I didn't find out about until a year later.....but back when he'd had this ONS, afterwards, there were bedroom issues between him and I....he couldn't maintain his E******N and seemed very frustrated by this. This had never happened before during our 20 years.

I did consider it was guilt back then, and he even went to see the doctor about it, and guess what the doctor asked him? 'have you done anything to feel guilty about?' he even came home and told me the doctor said this!!

...and yet denied and denied and denied! Got me to snooping though.


----------



## still.hurting (Dec 10, 2012)

LRgirl said:


> I can relate to so much of this list, even though my H refuses point blank he had an affair, either EA or PA. I think he wanted one, or thought he did, and i'm no way convinced that he didn't!
> 
> He did have a ONS with a colleague when drunk at a works party, which I didn't find out about until a year later.....but back when he'd had this ONS, afterwards, there were bedroom issues between him and I....he couldn't maintain his E******N and seemed very frustrated by this. This had never happened before during our 20 years.
> 
> ...



Did you ever get concrete evidence??? Are u still together?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LRgirl (Apr 9, 2013)

still.hurting said:


> Did you ever get concrete evidence??? Are u still together?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes we are still together, and most of the time, very happy in R. He is doing everything he can practically, physically, he is like a different man since changes were made....not sure about my emotional needs....he tells me he loves me and cuddles me and wants me in other ways  all of the time....not quite sure he gets that my heart is still in many pieces 

What is concrete evidence? 

I have confessions that he cheated 3 times. Admitted to first on DD1 and then 2 more (DD2) a week before due to sit a polygraph. 3 ONS although strictly speaking that isn't entirely the case  He didn't have intercourse, but he was there and willing so? I have spoke to 2/3 women involved and they tell me same as him....but who knows?

He maintains I know everything now......and has offered to sit a poly, stating he has told me everything, but I think he's BS'ing me....I'm ready to call his bluff though., simply for my own sanity.

If he willingly gives me the truth, from EA, ONS, passionately kissing to full blown intercourse and everything in between, and even a PA I will try to accept it and continue to R. 

The truth is the most important thing for me to fully forgive and start to look forward to the rest of our lives.......I fear my doubts could haunt me for the rest of our time together, and could possibly be enough for us to separate.

It is extremely difficult to move forward and trust when you have been TT for a full year and the only thing you have to go in is instinct.

Never underestimate your intuition.


----------



## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

still.hurting said:


> Yes, yes, YES....
> To a tee, you've explained how my H acted when having his EA, very very involved (in love with her) EA...
> 
> He WAS a completely different person, so sure of himself, groomed 'down their' for his pics and video sex to her... Became less, no very less interested in what was going on in our lives (like we/our family, were boring) even tho I was in hospital due to lots n lots of pregnancy problems with our twins... He was constantly picking fights just so he could say "You don't get me, I don't think I love you anymore and "Now I know when you come back home from hospital, I should move out"
> ...


Yeah it's the script for these people. My H is a serial cheater. I can recognize within 3 weeks now if he's up to no good, because I've been through it so many times. They become very self absorbed and do things that just don't make sense at the time. I find that once I even start having questions in my mind about any different things he's doing, that's when the bell chimes go off. 

I'm sorry that you have gone through this with your H. It is really sickening and disturbed that he would put this OW before you and your pregnancy and newborn, but this is how serial cheaters get when they are in the "mode". They project such ignorant and vile behaviour.

I detest every part of what serial cheaters represent and I do not like to be married to one. I love the man that he is deep down inside, but unless he can be that man every day from now on, I frankly could care less about him other than he is the father of my children. I can respect that much.


----------



## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

LRgirl said:


> I can relate to so much of this list, even though my H refuses point blank he had an affair, either EA or PA. I think he wanted one, or thought he did, and i'm no way convinced that he didn't!
> 
> He did have a ONS with a colleague when drunk at a works party, which I didn't find out about until a year later.....but back when he'd had this ONS, afterwards, there were bedroom issues between him and I....he couldn't maintain his E******N and seemed very frustrated by this. This had never happened before during our 20 years.
> 
> ...


When did you suspect your H had the A? If you saw any of these signs it is likely that your H was talking with someone. When did you first notice the signs and how long did they last?


----------



## Lister (Jan 29, 2013)

Ovid said:


> I don't think cheaters realize the pain they're causing the first time around. If they know the pain they are causing and do it again, they don't love you, or they don't know how to love.
> 
> My wife got her do over. I told her I can't do it again. Not won't. Can't.


As a WS approaching one year after DDay I can absolutely guarantee that i will never cheat again. Why? Because it has been the worst experience of my life because of the realization (albeit slow) of the awfulness of what i did and the trauma it has caused to people i love.

Ovid you are correct that unless the WS really gets the pain they have caused they may do it again. They may also do it again if they are staying to work through R for the wrong reasons (easy life, guilt, financial security etc). They also need to understand why they did it, what made them feel it was OK to do what they did. This is a painful process that requires looking at dark stuff in your personality, it's a process i'm still going through. Unless a WS does this though, i suspect that they will still be at risk of cheating again.


----------



## littlesweetling (Feb 16, 2013)

I have been married to a serial cheater for over 30 yrs....I should write a book on this sad to say. To add to the list above.

1. They will begin to diatance themselves. 
2. Will become overly focused on their appearance.
3. Happy, excited, life is their oyster.
4. More sex and wants new things....this will usually change as affair progresses.
5. At first they tell you they love you all the time and unexpected gifts (guilt complex). That changes as affair progresses.
6. Communication get vague and generalization guarded answers to questions
7. Mood swings from excited to depressed to aggitated.
8. Isolates themslves in another room or leaves house for dumb resons.
9. All of a sudden they have sleeping problems and can't sleep so they stay up alone. Tell you to go to bed without them.
10. New hobbies that your not included in because it would bore you supposedly.
11. Guarding the cell phone and PC.... big one!
12. Sex becomes focused on their needs, less and less attention to your needs.
13. New email and fb accounts.
14. Focus on where's the money and what is it being spent on.

Ok I'll quit for now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## still.hurting (Dec 10, 2012)

LRgirl said:


> Yes we are still together, and most of the time, very happy in R. He is doing everything he can practically, physically, he is like a different man since changes were made....not sure about my emotional needs....he tells me he loves me and cuddles me and wants me in other ways  all of the time....not quite sure he gets that my heart is still in many pieces
> 
> What is concrete evidence?
> 
> ...


Too true, about your comment 'Never underestimate your intuition'
I was, and still am gob smacked about what he did to me and our family... After our big fight that made him leave our house and go to his mates place, months went by and how he was acting I had thoughts that maybe he met someone at the pub (as his mate ALWAYS goes to the pub) I dismissed that thought thinking 'there's no way he has that in him'. My God, if I had only really knew what he was doing, and not to mention what he had done 5 years ago- Actually, I do remember having a funny feeling that something was odd 5 years ago, and I remember getting that fearful shiver that runs through your body when u know somethings up. That happened when I asked him on the phone if he was coming over to see the kids today... He was hung over and I asked if he had a big night/went out...? He said he went out, and I asked who all went out with you? When he replied 'no one, just me, I was bored...' my blood ran cold. I remember asking him if he had slept with anyone? He got SO defensive and said 'You broke up with me and you have no business what I do, but NO, I didn't sleep with anyone..."
I suppose in a way he was telling the truth, they didn't 'sleep' they [email protected]*ked...! AND, I said to him, "What? I never broke up with you. We had a disagreement and u ran away to your mates place...!"

The crap this guy has put me through...

My gut feeling is, I'm still continuing to have a break from him. It's hard tho, trying very hard not to fall for his niceness n get back with him... I HAVE to keep telling myself, that I Can't get over what he did to us and there's no point stringing him along while he can't handle my triggers and.... Basically we are just two very very very different people!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## still.hurting (Dec 10, 2012)

Lister said:


> As a WS approaching one year after DDay I can absolutely guarantee that i will never cheat again. Why? Because it has been the worst experience of my life because of the realization (albeit slow) of the awfulness of what i did and the trauma it has caused to people i love.
> 
> Ovid you are correct that unless the WS really gets the pain they have caused they may do it again. They may also do it again if they are staying to work through R for the wrong reasons (easy life, guilt, financial security etc). They also need to understand why they did it, what made them feel it was OK to do what they did. This is a painful process that requires looking at dark stuff in your personality, it's a process i'm still going through. Unless a WS does this though, i suspect that they will still be at risk of cheating again.


What makes you feel so sure that you will NEVER betray or cheat on your spose again? I mean, I bet in the beginning of your relationship you never would have thought that years to come that you would cheat on them? So what if; he/she has trouble trying to get over your affair and it takes way too long for you to handle and you get sick of his/her behavior or just bored in your relationship? 

See, I'm afraid that because my H has done it more than once, but only been caught once (as I found out about his earlier PA through the text msg's to his EA partner) oh, and then again when he was trying to reconcile with me, he was on dating sites and other social sites trying to pick up other girls to have sextings with... Anyway, sorry for going off track...
What makes you so sure that in years to come that you will never hurt your spose again? And, just from a little bit of info that I have given you about my H, do you think he has it in him to NEVER betray me again?

I would like everyones opinion on my last question about my H too, please...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

still.hurting said:


> And, just from a little bit of info that I have given you about my H, do you think he has it in him to NEVER betray me again?
> 
> I would like everyones opinion on my last question about my H too, please...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No he does not have it in him to never betray you again. Only my opinion but yes I think he will.

Having been living with a serial cheat for 15 yrs 11 married, (and one before that too for 6 years) although its not in the born dna, because imo of childhood situations it's certainly evolves into their dna. It's starts to define their personality over time as any one who has gone through this would know. 

Again only my opinion but I think its a disorder in itself as well as parts of established disorders.

The biggest pivotal point of it is having got away with it more than once. Even we the betrayed, have to agree that that is simply a green light for them and us. It's the danger point, the crossroads point because we all to a man / woman are saying internally 'We both know I shouldn't be giving you this chance you should be gone', and they the wayward spouse know it to. They expect to get the boot but for them when you accept this it's the biggest loss of respect for you they can get. For me it's right at this juncture that two massive things happen their loss of respect for you and your fear about them - the balance of power in the relationship goes completely out of kilter because of this- it's almost an overnight thing. They know now you will accept it - fully. 

It's a very very difficult situation because your gut feeling, the thing that has got you fever pitch of detection *will now never get turned off* so the game is hyper now, your ability to detect heightens their ability to get the next one underground and make no mistake that 'game' is part of the euphoria they get from the adultery. Its why you often hear about the forbidden excitement of it. That toxicity becomes a component part of why they do it.

I'm biased I'm betrayed, multiple times, but after watching what goes on in this forum on this website for the last year, I'm negative about reconciliations of a true and healthy nature .I think it's almost impossible but for very very few couples. I don't believe two people having gone through all this are capable of a proper reconciliation - it almost for me goes against the grain. There seem to be exceptions ,extremely rare, but even they highlight it's never the same, can never be and you have to start of from a completely different standpoint for you both, which means the original spark that brought you both together will never be there again and that is something for a couple almost impossible to live without. 

It seems to me as human beings, we are built, instinctively, to 'use' each other take selfishly and then move on. Sadly that's negative but from what I see that's the bottom line.

In my time, especially on here, I see more evidence of that than anything else.


----------



## still.hurting (Dec 10, 2012)

Headspin said:


> No he does not have it in him to never betray you again. Only my opinion but yes I think he will.
> 
> Having been living with a serial cheat for 15 yrs 11 married, (and one before that too for 6 years) although its not in the born dna, because imo of childhood situations it's certainly evolves into their dna. It's starts to define their personality over time as any one who has gone through this would know.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your honesty... I sadly agree with you, I think he will cheat on me again, maybe not in the next 'few' years, but definitely within the next 5-10years...!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ALWAYS TRYING (Mar 2, 2013)

Well I'm in a really bad place but wanted to respond to this thread. 

Been married 31 years, in a month. Hubby is a serial cheater. First time I caught him 25 years ago. Made him call her with me standing there. Told him me or her pick. He chose me and we went on. We really didn't address any issues just went on. Young and stupid. Many years and many affaires later. Could not prove anything just my gut talking. I was always snooping. He said stop going through my stuff I said stop giving me reasons. 

Any way fast forward to two years ago. My gut was hurting so many red flags. I started snooping big time and found emails to an old GF. very innocent and he told me about her and the emails. So ok alls good. But still not feeling good. So October last year I see he had signed up for hookup with your favorite MILF site and was getting lots of replies. Yay. 

Mid February I confronted and demanded. Lots of talking and working and I was willing to once again try. He was really doing everything I asked. He has said he likes the chase and the ego boost. The sex is not what it's about. Sure ok I don't buy that. But ok. Another issue is our sex life, or lack there of. 

So yesterday I checked his email again and guess what? He has started another conversation with some other wh ore. 

I'm done this time. You all have taught me that this guy is not worthy. He can't stop. But......(you all are going to slap me). If he would just give me the attention that he gives to all these wh ores. Because divorce is gonna be so hard. I feel the slaps.

I think some guys just don't want a wife. They want the respectability and resume that says he's a good stable guy. But still wants to be single and enjoy many girls. 

I feel so sad for all of us who want to make it work and try and try and come back with more hurt. I do not understand why they continue to hurt us and why we stay to get hurt.


----------



## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

ALWAYS TRYING said:


> Well I'm in a really bad place but wanted to respond to this thread.
> 
> Been married 31 years, in a month. Hubby is a serial cheater. First time I caught him 25 years ago. Made him call her with me standing there. Told him me or her pick. He chose me and we went on. We really didn't address any issues just went on. Young and stupid. Many years and many affaires later. Could not prove anything just my gut talking. I was always snooping. He said stop going through my stuff I said stop giving me reasons.
> 
> ...


Sorry you're there. After all that I won't have to tell you but some people are never satisfied never happy you give them the world, they want the moon as well 

One thing I can tell you is this, rest assured, that had you given him all the attention you maybe think you did'nt *it would have made no difference at all*. He's cake eater and was never going to be any different 30 years ago or yesterday.

In consolation I'll say there are probably many men out there more than willing to take you on in an honest relationship.

You're better than what he has given you


----------



## still.hurting (Dec 10, 2012)

ALWAYS TRYING said:


> Well I'm in a really bad place but wanted to respond to this thread.
> 
> Been married 31 years, in a month. Hubby is a serial cheater. First time I caught him 25 years ago. Made him call her with me standing there. Told him me or her pick. He chose me and we went on. We really didn't address any issues just went on. Young and stupid. Many years and many affaires later. Could not prove anything just my gut talking. I was always snooping. He said stop going through my stuff I said stop giving me reasons.
> 
> ...


Dear Always Trying, after reading your post I thought to myself 'My God, this is me 25 years from now!' 

My H and I got together when we were very young, although I'm 5 years older than him, he was and has always been mature for his age, but he ALWAYS has this weird ego thing thinking I think that he doesn't know better than me cause I have had 'more life experience'...(I haven't thought this and sometimes I think he uses it as an excuse to get his own way...?) 
In the beginning of our relationship he use to always question how many men I have slept with? Because I was his 3rd sexual partner (before his affairs) he use to get quite jelous of me. That should have been enough to set off the alarm bells, but unfortunately I just thought in time he would get over such a silly thing... -I was wrong...!

Throughout our relationship I feel like I have always put him before me, our kids and my family and my friends... I kind of always felt 'obligated' to let him go out, instead of me, cause I had had my 'party' life, that he expressed many times that it had been ripped away from him... (because of me. When we met I had a 10 month old son, and within 3 years of us being together we fell pregnant and the 6weeks after giving birth, we fell pregnant AGAIN. All the pregnancies were BIG shocks not only to us but for our dr's as well, but that is too long of a story...)

So, by giving him WAY too much freedom over the years, he just became more and more selfish and more and more disrespectful towards me.
He is a heavy drinker and I always feel I need to 'tread on egg shell's' when he has had too much to drink, cause he has been physically abusive to me a number of times in the past...
Like last night; it was my brothers bday and he went out drinking with the boys for at least 6hrs after the kids n I had come home (not that I had a problem with him being out) When he came home, he wanted me to cook him some noodles and started going off his head, calling me stupid and yelling abusing me cause I cooked it 'wrong' not the way it said to on the packet... I tried to calm him down and tried to explain it's going to turn out the same... In the end he wouldn't let me throw away the packet 'for evidence' that I had cooked it wrong (even tho I told him there's another packet in the cupboard...) and he threw out the noodles...

I just can't believe after EVERYTHING we have gone through, and everything I do for him, he STILL treats me like sh!t... 
I don't have much confidence for our future....

I'm so so sorry that you have lived a life of regret and pain. It's never too late to find happiness tho...
I hope we are both strong enough and do the right thing and leave our H's, so we can really live ;-)

Good luck to you...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## still.hurting (Dec 10, 2012)

ALWAYS TRYING said:


> Well I'm in a really bad place but wanted to respond to this thread.
> 
> Been married 31 years, in a month. Hubby is a serial cheater. First time I caught him 25 years ago. Made him call her with me standing there. Told him me or her pick. He chose me and we went on. We really didn't address any issues just went on. Young and stupid. Many years and many affaires later. Could not prove anything just my gut talking. I was always snooping. He said stop going through my stuff I said stop giving me reasons.
> 
> ...


Dear Always Trying, after reading your post I thought to myself 'My God, this is me 25 years from now!' 

My H and I got together when we were very young, although I'm 5 years older than him, he was and has always been mature for his age, but he ALWAYS has this weird ego thing thinking I think that he doesn't know better than me cause I have had 'more life experience'...(I haven't thought this and sometimes I think he uses it as an excuse to get his own way...?) 
In the beginning of our relationship he use to always question how many men I have slept with? Because I was his 3rd sexual partner (before his affairs) he use to get quite jelous of me. That should have been enough to set off the alarm bells, but unfortunately I just thought in time he would get over such a silly thing... -I was wrong...!

Throughout our relationship I feel like I have always put him before me, our kids and my family and my friends... I kind of always felt 'obligated' to let him go out, instead of me, cause I had had my 'party' life, that he expressed many times that it had been ripped away from him... (because of me. When we met I had a 10 month old son, and within 3 years of us being together we fell pregnant and the 6weeks after giving birth, we fell pregnant AGAIN. All the pregnancies were BIG shocks not only to us but for our dr's as well, but that is too long of a story...)

So, by giving him WAY too much freedom over the years, he just became more and more selfish and more and more disrespectful towards me.
He is a heavy drinker and I always feel I need to 'tread on egg shell's' when he has had too much to drink, cause he has been physically abusive to me a number of times in the past...
Like last night; it was my brothers bday and he went out drinking with the boys for at least 6hrs after the kids n I had come home (not that I had a problem with him being out) When he came home, he wanted me to cook him some noodles and started going off his head, calling me stupid and yelling abusing me cause I cooked it 'wrong' not the way it said to on the packet... I tried to calm him down and tried to explain it's going to turn out the same... In the end he wouldn't let me throw away the packet 'for evidence' that I had cooked it wrong (even tho I told him there's another packet in the cupboard...) and he threw out the noodles...

I just can't believe after EVERYTHING we have gone through, and everything I do for him, he STILL treats me like sh!t... 
I don't have much confidence for our future....

I'm so so sorry that you have lived a life of regret and pain. It's never too late to find happiness tho...
I hope we are both strong enough and do the right thing and leave our H's, so we can really live ;-)

Good luck to you...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

4X for me.. 

Well actually 3x and on the 4th I was discarded like yesterdays trash.. I don't know if the first was a PA or even an EA as I just caught her searching a name online but she crumbled. The second was an EA that I caught before it was a PA, but 2 months before the whole incident she shut down sexually completely. I am thinking she had someone else but it fell apart and then she met this other person online. Again I don't have any ideas about that 2 month period. The third, 7 years ago was her reaching out to her old junkie boyfriend turned drug counselor in florida. I caught her yet again and went to some good counseling. The 4th and final one she met someone in july of 2012 and was leaving to move in with him by Sept 2012. She dragged me around until January of 2013 faking reconciliation while the OM fixed the apartment for him and her. 

Nutshell after 19 years, 4 *known* incidents and 2 boys 13 and 8 she left me for a man she knew a total of 3 to 5 months.


----------



## still.hurting (Dec 10, 2012)

Hardtohandle said:


> 4X for me..
> 
> Well actually 3x and on the 4th I was discarded like yesterdays trash.. I don't know if the first was a PA or even an EA as I just caught her searching a name online but she crumbled. The second was an EA that I caught before it was a PA, but 2 months before the whole incident she shut down sexually completely. I am thinking she had someone else but it fell apart and then she met this other person online. Again I don't have any ideas about that 2 month period. The third, 7 years ago was her reaching out to her old junkie boyfriend turned drug counselor in florida. I caught her yet again and went to some good counseling. The 4th and final one she met someone in july of 2012 and was leaving to move in with him by Sept 2012. She dragged me around until January of 2013 faking reconciliation while the OM fixed the apartment for him and her.
> 
> Nutshell after 19 years, 4 *known* incidents and 2 boys 13 and 8 she left me for a man she knew a total of 3 to 5 months.


Oh man... I can believe some people can be so insensitive! I hope you are in a better place in your life now?

To me, it sounds like her n her new man won't last anyway, if they do, he must be as efft up as her...! 

You sound like a decent man who has been put through the mill, for many many years... I'm feeling sorry for you for that.

I sure hope you find your perfect, beautiful, faithful, happy solemate soon (that's if you haven't already?)

Thanks for sharing
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## still.hurting (Dec 10, 2012)

Unfortunatly I don't think I have had one good or promising post here that can give me a glimce of hope that he will NEVER cheat on me again....

Don't you just wish you could look into that crystal ball to see what your future relationship is going to be like?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

*Proverbs 26:11*

*As a dog returns to his own vomit,
So a fool repeats his folly.
*
For me, it was 3 times. Each time she got more clever about hiding it but I knew in the pit of my stomach something was wrong. So I looked into it and there it was.

I think 90+% of betrayers either betray again or go through the motions to betray. Why? See above.


----------



## still.hurting (Dec 10, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> *Proverbs 26:11*
> 
> *As a dog returns to his own vomit,
> So a fool repeats his folly.
> ...


I like your 'Quote'

I think your thought of 90+% would be right on the money... I think if they have betrayed you once, you might just be able to rebuild your relationship again? BUT, twice or more...? then I definitely think there's no way that relationship could work, for all the obvious reasons where love, honour n trust has been shattered again and again. Also the betrayed spouse would most certainly hold so much anger and resentment towards the WS, and it would take far too long to get over and be in a position to rebuild the love, trust n honor, that personally I think those breeds of people don't have the patience to wait that long for their partner to heal, so they move onto their next affair....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

Well - mine promised to be "good" after an EA with my best friend - who did not even know what was going on - until she asked him to arrange out separation for us - he is a lawyer...then he clued in about what she was doing. She was as good as gold - then started to pick at me again....my weight, my work, my habits, not cooking meals, etc....I knew something was up..
Anyhow here is my take on this stuff.....
They do it once and you come back - it is almost like you are giving them permission to do it again....
Here's the deal - they know the pain they are causing fist time out....it is not rocket science....they know how they would feel if the same thing was offered to them.
My ex just thought she was so beautiful and so wonderful - she used to send me emails all the time with songs that would say how I would never find anyone better than her. Now my friends see her on the bus all the time (her and her new boyfriend do not even have a car) and I think to myself "yea right" to all her songs...


----------



## still.hurting (Dec 10, 2012)

bigtone128 said:


> Well - mine promised to be "good" after an EA with my best friend - who did not even know what was going on - until she asked him to arrange out separation for us - he is a lawyer...then he clued in about what she was doing. She was as good as gold - then started to pick at me again....my weight, my work, my habits, not cooking meals, etc....I knew something was up..
> Anyhow here is my take on this stuff.....
> They do it once and you come back - it is almost like you are giving them permission to do it again....
> Here's the deal - they know the pain they are causing fist time out....it is not rocket science....they know how they would feel if the same thing was offered to them.
> My ex just thought she was so beautiful and so wonderful - she used to send me emails all the time with songs that would say how I would never find anyone better than her. Now my friends see her on the bus all the time (her and her new boyfriend do not even have a car) and I think to myself "yea right" to all her songs...


Wow, what a way to find out your separating (not)

I'm hoping there are no kids involved, and that you meet your perfect girl soon!

Did you two get MC ever?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

still.hurting said:


> I'm interested to hear has there been anyone here that has been betrayed by their spouse, went through recovery and MC, etc... And thinking they were doing everything right and their relationship was stronger than ever, only to be betrayed again?
> 
> If so, what characteristics did/does your WS have? I'm wanting to hear any hints to what to look out for and how long after R did it take for them to stray again?
> 
> ...


Well.

If you use your feelings when dealing with a cheater, it may be logical to show your wayward spouse that you love them and appreciate them. And work very hard to prove this.

What's funny is exactly what you think you should do if you want to get them back, you should do the opposite.

If the WAS never lost anything in the affair, they have no reason to believe they will lose anything in the future. So if you took them back home, made them know they were safe and OK. When the embers die down, inside they will know they can get away with it again.

I'm a fan of removing all support for a cheating spouse. Have the affair partner take care of them. It brings to light the reality of the situation, in that the affair partner wanted some free sex, but not be stuck with the burden of a relationship or support, since the betrayed spouse provides this.

You may have created a serial cheater, and your best choice may be to let go.


----------



## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

still.hurting said:


> Wow, what a way to find out your separating (not)
> 
> I'm hoping there are no kids involved, and that you meet your perfect girl soon!
> 
> ...


No but we probably should have - you see, she was as good as gold after I found out - and I thought she learned her lesson. When she was younger and went away on a business trip with her boss and something went on - we went to marriage counselling then....she kept saying she had no clue that her behaviour would hurt me...so I came out looking like a bad guy. I did not want a repeat of the same performance. I figured she is sorry and so be it. Besides she kept denying anything went on so I thought she was embarrassed by her behaviour so I let it go....BIG mistake...by the way two boys involved - 17 and 19 then - 18 and 20 now.....harder when they are older....they know what is going on.


----------



## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

still.hurting said:


> I like your 'Quote'
> 
> I think your thought of 90+% would be right on the money... I think if they have betrayed you once, you might just be able to rebuild your relationship again? BUT, twice or more...? then I definitely think there's no way that relationship could work, for all the obvious reasons where love, honour n trust has been shattered again and again. Also the betrayed spouse would most certainly hold so much anger and resentment towards the WS, and it would take far too long to get over and be in a position to rebuild the love, trust n honor, that personally I think those breeds of people don't have the patience to wait that long for their partner to heal, so they move onto their next affair....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah,

but you cannot rebuild the relationship unless you go through the steps.

If you are a safe refuge from the affairs, when he or she gets burned or tired of affair land, they always know they can come home and be safe.

Then they get comfortable and healed and go out and do it again.


----------



## SecretTears (Jul 18, 2010)

still.hurting said:


> Dear Always Trying, after reading your post I thought to myself 'My God, this is me 25 years from now!'
> 
> My H and I got together when we were very young, although I'm 5 years older than him, he was and has always been mature for his age, but he ALWAYS has this weird ego thing thinking I think that he doesn't know better than me cause I have had 'more life experience'...(I haven't thought this and sometimes I think he uses it as an excuse to get his own way...?)
> In the beginning of our relationship he use to always question how many men I have slept with? Because I was his 3rd sexual partner (before his affairs) he use to get quite jelous of me. That should have been enough to set off the alarm bells, but unfortunately I just thought in time he would get over such a silly thing... -I was wrong...!
> ...


still.hurtin: lots of hugs! that sounds like a really difficult situation. A lot of it was true for me too (except the physical abuse part). He wanted me to have supper on the table when he got home (even though I worked full time), everything was always about him, he always came/put himself first. Now that I've had distance from it, I see what a horrible situation and a terribly unhealthy relationship it was. I was codependent and I think you are too BTW in supporting his drinking. 

Ultimately ONLY YOU can make the decision to stay or go. It is really tough, I know. But ask yourself: how much more of his abuse can you take (because it is abuse)? How many more years are you going to worry about whether he is cheating, being super paranoid and obsessive everytime something even seems out of whack? It's not too late to leave now and build a happy, healthy life for yourself. Or do you still want to be in this situation 2, 5 or 10 years down the road? 

If you think you are ready to leave, make a plan, step by step, deal with the logistics but don't tell him anything until you have it all figured out. Is there anything logistically that prevents you from leaving? 

Good luck! I am rooting for you! I know how incredibly tough this decision is. Be strong!


----------



## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

still.hurting said:


> I'm interested to hear has there been anyone here that has been betrayed by their spouse, went through recovery and MC, etc... And thinking they were doing everything right and their relationship was stronger than ever, only to be betrayed again?
> 
> If so, what characteristics did/does your WS have? I'm wanting to hear any hints to what to look out for and how long after R did it take for them to stray again?
> 
> ...


Hi SH. There are signs if you know what to look for. Here's my timeline. Married young, at 4 year mark just after second son was born, ex became unhappy and cheated. She blamed it on post pardom. At 7 year I knew something wasn't right again and caught her via VAR attached to the home phone.

First thing we did wrong was rug sweeping and it wasn't just her. I did it too. She didn't even have to trickle truth. Second thing we did wrong was to not fix problems that led to it. The main thing I should have done was have boundaries regarding disrespect. In our case it wouldn't have mattered since she's proven to be a serial cheater after we split and she remarried. 

Other than the obvious things that you find on google top 10 lists, there's a few big ones they miss.
- If she understands what she's done and it remorseful then she won't get annoyed or frustrated at you over stupid things like where you park and she won't be snarky with you all of the time.
- My ex would find a way to justify anything she'd done and make herself the victom but not all BS are that type.
- Another big one to watch for is the start if re-writing history. If you get into an argument and she has some gloomy picture that you've never heard to apply boot to buttocks immediately.


----------



## krismimo (Jan 26, 2011)

Hey Still hurting I read your post but before I give my input does your question also pertain to unmarried couples who were/are in long term relationships? If not I totally understand seeing how marriage is on another level than a long term relationship.


----------



## krismimo (Jan 26, 2011)

Still hurting I would like to help but I need to know where you stand in regards to your question about married couples?


----------



## still.hurting (Dec 10, 2012)

krismimo said:


> Still hurting I would like to help but I need to know where you stand in regards to your question about married couples?


Hi Krismimo, Sorry for my delayed reply, a lot of family issues...
To answer your question, my views on couples being married or in long time committed relationship (especially with children involved) to me, they are equally the same, so I feel either way the cheating is just the same for someone who has been married/defacto relationship for over a couple of years, is the same betrayal.

I understand others would disagree and say 'but if your married, you have made a bigger commitment and broken vows' but they've broken their committed relationship values, just the same...

Hope that makes sence...?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## krismimo (Jan 26, 2011)

No worries! I'm on your time. I want to answer your question the best I know how so how you feel about certain things is all that is important.


----------



## mswho (May 3, 2013)

Yes, my WS has cheated on me with twice. Quick stats; been married 11+years with 2 kids, 1 is 5 yr old, other is 2 yrs old. Was very remorseful first time, we did MC and all that about 7 yrs ago. 

Now I'm furious I'm back to square 1 as I just found out he cheated on me again. Besides the cheating, he's a model husband in every other way. Very kind and loving to our 2 kids, good provider, helps me around the house, does date nite and sends me flowers on special occasions. But in this last incident, he had an opportunity arise with OW before he left town as she made it abundantly clear what she wanted, so he took her up on it as we were going through a rough patch--total cake eater.

Same story now that I confronted him--remorseful, promises won't do it again, blah blah. What's another twist to this issue is that he admitted he has had a problem with porn for years, and wants to seek help in stopping it. I have kicked him out this time and we are doing a controlled separation. I've already contacted a divorce lawyer who gave me some advice, but I'm so angry I can't see straight, and don't want to file angry. 

My reason and logic tells me to run away, but I admit, my heart is still attached to this man. What he did was so disrespectful and hurtful, but now he's talking about finding God which he never did before, and seeking treatment. He knows his words mean nothing, and its his actions that speaks volumes.

And please no lectures on serial cheaters. It's easy to tell someone to walk but it sucks when you're in their shoes. I am seeing a counselor to work out whether to stay or go (believe me, if I didn't have 2 young kids, I'd go). I am drawing boundaries on what is acceptable by kicking him out and minimizing contact, although it's a gut punch to watch the effects on my son, who is close to his Dad. I will not take him back unless there are major changes to his behavior and even then, it still may not be enough.

Sorry I had to vent. I'm also sorry for everyone else who is in a similar situation on these boards, and hope you find the support you need. Only thing I know is there are no guaranteed outcomes in life, and in deciding to stay or go, you have to decide on the lesser of 2 evils.


----------



## Mtts (Apr 16, 2012)

This thread is difficult for me to read too. So many signs and issues that told me what was going on but I ignored them. Even prior to learning so much here, I had an inate understanding of what was off. 

So many wake up calls we don't really understand until it's the emotional EMT carrying you out on a stretcher. 

Still.Hurting, I hope you find peace but I know for myself that once I really let what was going on set in I knew there was no turning back. Which is difficult especially the longer you've been with someone. I can say that I have days I go back and forth on trying to still work on things but much of me knows that even if you go through R and it never happens again, you'll always have to deal with wondering.

Fear of the unknown is something most people can identify with, I just wanted to do it as a couple not as "I" or "me."


----------



## krismimo (Jan 26, 2011)

Still hurting so sorry to have taken so long to post this I hope you know I didn't forget about you.

I wasn't married but I was with my ex for close to seven years. we shared a room together in his mothers house.My ex was a serial cheater the worst of the bunch. I lost count how may false R's we had over dozens. When I busted him the first time he tried to play down his actions, it went down hill ever since, I caught him about five times each time (that I know of) he vowed he was sorry and wouldn't do it again, the next time I caught him was this nasty woman with a bunch of kids I asked her nicely through email and she got very defensive and bragged about sleeping in the bed we shared, I'm sarcastic on a good day she didn't like what I had to say she got so wild up that she threatened to hurt me, btw I was in my early twenties then and this woman was in her mid thirties, classy huh? ...

I felt like it was a tug of war and to my own admission I accepted this dysfunctional relationship it sort of reminded me of a abusive relationship (he wasn't abusive) from time to time he was emotionally abusive he was more condescending than anything but our relationship reminded me of this constant see saw we would fight he would act good for a little while then back to his habits again. In between the times things were going ok I always had to do the old trust but verify and that was a living hell I cant live with someone who I can't trust because if you trusted them there wouldn't be a reason to check up on them. 

The final straw? 

Wow side note here: Weird I'm writing this because this was the around the time period five years ago this month that I called a woman who I suspected he was seeing off and on. It was much worse than that. So I call this woman up she had no clue about me and not only that she thought my bf was her bf she dated my bf for four years. She was devastated I can still hear her cry over the phone. She had her own place and his room was so small we didn't have space to put pictures of us anywhere and he lived with his mom so not really a spot you want to go to if you want alone time. 


And yes to answer that question he was seeing me, her and other women on the side at the same time. After our lovely talk she asked his friends about me he told his friends to lie about me he said pretend Kris never there if she asks about kris just say she is a friend... ouch.. I saw this from a text a friend showed me. 

She learned the truth then dumped him, after she dumped him he tried to get back with me. After all that you would think that he wanted to throw the towel in. My ex was very convincing each time he acted the part and I fell for it, when I thought he was sincere and never do it again guess what he would do it again. 

Besides him cheating on me my ex really didn't treat me all the well he treated me like crap, and I allowed it. People will treat you the way you allow them to. I had no self confidence I use to blame myself for his cheating I used to ask what is wrong with me what can I do better for him to love me more? And I would try the next thing and the next I was competing with these other women I let my pride get in the way I didn't want them to have him because I wanted to "win". 

I wanted to show them that I could win, I even tried to take a blind eye to it and acted as though it was normal he would one day see the error of his ways and he would know that I was the right one for him, because he loved me. Right.... little did I know that I encouraged his actions not prevented it. 

I made every mistake that TAM tells you not to do and I mean every. But I'm also grateful because I learned so much through the process. And I would never put myself through that again.

Serial cheaters are the worse kind to deal with and most of the time are not worth the hassle unless they get some serious serious help, change their lifestyles, and let you look through phones, laptop, whatever feels safe. 

But personally I have been there done that I got tired of holding my breathe and feeling the shakes when I would read a email he would receive from a girl that I didn't recognize and it was only to talk about work. I was a prisoner in my own mind, I was waiting for the other shoe to drop, I expected it to drop it took me a long time to figure out that I couldn't stay with someone who cheated on me. 

Through all that after I dumped him some time later I met the man I was suppose to be with. I can't tell you or stress how much PEACE in my mind that I feel with him. I always say this to my friends when they were at the boarder of either dumping or staying. I say way the pros and cons and if you decide to leave and when you do if you feel a huge sense of relief like a huge weight has been lifted or feel a sense of peace? Then you have made the right choice. I hope you find what is right for you and I hope this helped. Sorry that this is long but these things as you know can be complicated.


----------



## Hudson0697 (Dec 22, 2013)

She knows I'm going to jail if it happens again.


----------



## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

Well, I've been given the promise numerous times since DDay. She has been warned, any default, any sniff of a hint that she is playing up and she is gone - and I mean gone!


----------

