# Exposing to 7 yr old daughter?



## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

I asked this question on my original thread "could someone please explain this fog?" but I wanted to start a new thread to see if it would get more responses. 

Should I expose my wife's infidelity and all the activities to our daughter? Wife had a one night stand back in September and has since then, before seperation, during seperation, before filing for divorce, and after filing for divorce, she has been texting, emailing, talking to all kinds of guys, mostly from a dating website. I'm also pretty sure she has been on some dates, she just won't admit it.

I exposed back at the beginning to family and friends, but not to our daughter, the person most affected by this and a subsequent divorce. Wife has told her that "mommy and daddy just can't be together right now" but that is not the truth. 

Wife is knee deep in the fog and wants to hide the truth from our daughter but I feel she needs to know. Should I tell her? If so, what do I tell her? How much do I tell her? 

She is an extremely bright 7 yr old as she is in the accellerated learning program. I believe she will understand things very well, but how much do I tell her?


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

i think she is too young and that would make you look like you are just trying to make her look bad to your daughter. she will find out in due time.
i dont see any reason to involve your daughter in that part of it.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

2nd_t!me iz_best said:


> i think she is too young and that would make you look like you are just trying to make her look bad to your daughter. she will find out in due time.


So telling the truth about something that will turn my daughter's life upside down will make my wife look bad? Doesn't our daughter have a right to know the truth? Why should our daughter know about all the good but not the bad? This particular "bad" thing has resulted in her family being ripped apart. I think she needs to know that truth and not lies. The truth is "mommy committed adultery and wants to chase other men".


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## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

I told my 9 year old daughter.. only out of anger tho, which was wrong of me. One night my H left to go "jogging" this is a man who has not jogged in our 15 years of marriage. I knew he was calling OW.. and when daughter asked me, "wheres daddy?" the hurt that he is causing my children over this came rushing out of me.. and i said, "hes out talking to his girlfriend". I probably shouldn't have said it this way. 

When your wounds are still open and they keep shoving salt into them, and then your kids start asking questions and you see the hurt in their eyes... its hard not to answer in anger and tell them point blank what is going on.

At the same time, children, and this is my opinion, should not be knowledgeable to adult issues. I should be protecting my kids, and not saying mean things about their daddy and the OW. Just reassuring them that everythings ok. And that nothing that is going on is THEIR fault. There is no need for Mommy's and Daddy's to point fingers. Just tell them that things aren't going so well, and mommy and daddy are trying to fix it, but it has nothing to do with them and it is not their fault. If the kids are in their mid teens, then they probably know more than you know. So I feel you can be open to whats going on. but for those of us with young ones, I think the objective is to reassure, and comfort them. Pointing fingers and casting blame doesn't help things in their eyes.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

Lilyana said:


> I told my 9 year old daughter.. only out of anger tho, which was wrong of me. One night my H left to go "jogging" this is a man who has not jogged in our 15 years of marriage. I knew he was calling OW.. and when daughter asked me, "wheres daddy?" the hurt that he is causing my children over this came rushing out of me.. and i said, "hes out talking to his girlfriend". I probably shouldn't have said it this way.
> 
> When your wounds are still open and they keep shoving salt into them, and then your kids start asking questions and you see the hurt in their eyes... its hard not to answer in anger and tell them point blank what is going on.
> 
> At the same time, children, and this is my opinion, should not be knowledgeable to adult issues. I should be protecting my kids, and not saying mean things about their daddy and the OW. Just reassuring them that everythings ok. And that nothing that is going on is THEIR fault. There is no need for Mommy's and Daddy's to point fingers. Just tell them that things aren't going so well, and mommy and daddy are trying to fix it, but it has nothing to do with them and it is not their fault. If the kids are in their mid teens, then they probably know more than you know. So I feel you can be open to whats going on. but for those of us with young ones, I think the objective is to reassure, and comfort them. Pointing fingers and casting blame doesn't help things in their eyes.


i agree with this.
even small kids are not as dumb about things as people think.
when she is old enough she will know how her mother is all on her own.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Lilyana said:


> There is no need for Mommy's and Daddy's to point fingers. Just tell them that things aren't going so well, and mommy and daddy are trying to fix it, but it has nothing to do with them and it is not their fault.


I don't think I would be pointing fingers. I would be explaining to our daughter that daddy wants to work it out but mommy wants other men. I want to work it out, but her mom is so deep in the 'fog' it is unreal. I really think she should know. I think this even more so since I know that "we can't be together right now" is not the REAL reason we are getting the divorce. It is not the real reason why our daughter's life will change for ever.

I'm not angry. Hurt? Yes, but not angry. I still love my wife, as crazy as it sounds, in spite of all this, and I want to work things out with her. It just cannot happen as long as other men are filling the place that I should be occupying. Our daughter knowing may be the jolt of reality she needs to break her out of this rut.

I wouldn't be doing this for revenge or anything like that. I would do it as an attempt to save my marriage and my family.


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## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

Your daughter will find out when she grows up what happened and how her mother is.. I don't think it will help her any to know that her mom is running around town with other men lying and cheating on you. 

Seriously that could hurt the child more than anything.. just be a father, supportive.. reassuring.. I really don't think its necessary to throw this on your childs shoulders and cause her more unwanted pain and confusion. (trust me this is something kids grow up with on their heads and end up in therapy over) 

Your daughters day will come, where she will find out everything. but really she is too young to handle this.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

You guys' comments are seem to be slanted towards me accepting this, moving on, and living my life. I'm not doing any of that. I'm fighting to keep my family together. I'm fighting to save my daughter the trouble of having to deal with step-parents. I'm fighting for what I believe is right, marriage being a life-long commitment. I'm fighting to keep her from experiencing the many negative senarios that children with divorced parents face.

Also, it will help her to know if her knowing is what keeps her family together.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

I'll be honest--I told my kids and they were 9yo and 11yo at the time. I really believe that kids need to know the truth at a level they can understand or else they tend to do one of two things: a) blame themselves or b) develop mixed morality from it. 

I said that their dad had decided to move out because we very much disagreed about something: he wanted to have a girlfriend and I believed that when a mom and dad married they should love only each other. I also said that it was not anything they had done, nor was it that we "couldn't get along" because when people were married sometimes they don't get along and we're still supposed to find a way to work it out! But that was what I believed and may or may not be what their dad thought and they could talk to him about what he believed. 

Then I asked if they had any questions and if it was "where will we live?" or "what will happen?" I told them they'd stay in their room in their same school but if we did have to move we would decide it together and they wouldn't be forced to go where they didn't want to go. If it was "Why did dad do *this* or *that*?" or "What does dad think about that?" I said "That's something you'll have to ask your dad about and see what he thinks but if you want to talk about it or have a question you can ask me." 

Your daughter is not stupid, marksaysay. She knows that something is up and I sincerely doubt your STBX is telling her that you two are divorcing because she decided to continue living an adulterous lifestyle. Now, your daughter doesn't need to know all those details...but she does need to know that you believe it's wrong to be unfaithful and her mom may feel differently...and she does need to know that it's not because you two "can't get along right now" because when SHE can't get along with the bully in school it's not like she has the option of leaving the school or divorcing the bully! SHE has to find a way to deal with it, and it would be inconsistent in her head to think that's the reason. 

Do you need to "point fingers"? Nope. Will it hurt to tell her the truth at a level she can understand, in an age-appropriate way? Nope. Her world is already torn apart. If anything this will help her little head make some sense of it (not that there IS sense to it).


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## TNgirl232 (Oct 5, 2008)

I guess you should ask yourself "How will telling my child improve my marriage / keep my marriage together / make her life better?" Right now I would tell her that you and mommy are trying to work out some issues that you can all be a family, but you don't know if you'll be able to. What if you do work it out - do you want your 7 year old throwing it back at her mom all through childhood that she "cheated" on dad....because believe me as a teenager, that will become a huge weapon she will break out whenever mom makes her mad. Why drag your child into a fight between you and your wife. My daughter was 8 when her dad and I split...she is just now asking why we really got divorced, but I'm not sure I want to tell her yet. She loves her dad...so why should I give her information that might make her hate him? She'll find out sooner or later and I'll deal with it at that time. I haven't lied - we couldn't get along anymore...we were happier not together....it was not her fault and she has NEVER been placed in the middle of anything.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

TNgirl232 said:


> Right now I would tell her that you and mommy are trying to work out some issues that you can all be a family, but you don't know if you'll be able to.


This is not true in my situation. My wife is trying to get away from me as fast as she can so that she can get with somebody else. She is entangled by this desire and will not stop on her own. She doesn't want to work it out. 




TNgirl232 said:


> She loves her dad...so why should I give her information that might make her hate him? She'll find out sooner or later and I'll deal with it at that time.


She will love her mother regardless of what happens but I don't want her to grow up believing something that is not the truth and then resenting me or anyone else later. I also don't think it would send her a good message about marriage, lying, telling the truth or anything else. 



TNgirl232 said:


> I haven't lied - we couldn't get along anymore...we were happier not together....it was not her fault and she has NEVER been placed in the middle of anything.


Again, this would not be relevant. We did have our problems as all couple do, but we could get a long. Hell, just days before her ONS she was sending me texts on her way home about wanting to have sex. Then all of a sudden I get the "i love you but I'm not in love with you speech" which i now know was a sure sign that something was wrong. I know that there are things that needed to be fixed in our marriage. I know that there were needs that I wasn't meeting, but that is never an excuse for someone to be unfaithful.


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## TNgirl232 (Oct 5, 2008)

Ok - so it sounds like you've already made up your mind. The majority of us have said don't tell her - but you've had a ready response as to why our opinions are invalid. 

Your going to do what your going to do...but it seems like you are feeling very hurt/resentful towards your wife, for cheating, for not wanting to fix the marriage, for breaking up your family (all justified btw) - are you sure some of that hurt/resenment isn't fueling your need to share this with your 7 year old child? Maybe you want to hurt your wife by sharing her true nature with a 7 year old that has no idea how to process adult thoughts, emotions and concepts?

It seems like you are desperate to make sure that your daughter doesn't think YOU are the problem and to do that you have to share why you aren't. (You want to work it out but mom doesn't, Mom cheated...comes across as you are the Golden Boy being trampled on by mean mom)

I hate to say it...but in almost all affairs both partners have some part to play in why the other strayed be it feeling ignored or taken for granted or belittled or sex (not saying what she did is justified or right or anything) but hardly ever is either spouse blameless in the path that led to the infidelity choice.

The last thing I'll say is if you do tell her or don't tell her- I'd recommend setting up counseling so that someone with no vested interest in the relationship can help her sort through the why's and the insecurity that comes with it.

A few articles on the topic:

http://www.beyondaffairs.com/articles/Tell_Your_Children.htm
http://www.divorce360.com/divorce-a...sex-lies-and-telling-the-kids.aspx?artid=1248


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

TNgirl232 said:


> I guess you should ask yourself "How will telling my child improve my marriage / keep my marriage together / make her life better?" Right now I would tell her that you and mommy are trying to work out some issues that you can all be a family, but you don't know if you'll be able to. What if you do work it out - do you want your 7 year old throwing it back at her mom all through childhood that she "cheated" on dad....because believe me as a teenager, that will become a huge weapon she will break out whenever mom makes her mad. Why drag your child into a fight between you and your wife. My daughter was 8 when her dad and I split...she is just now asking why we really got divorced, but I'm not sure I want to tell her yet. She loves her dad...so why should I give her information that might make her hate him? She'll find out sooner or later and I'll deal with it at that time. I haven't lied - we couldn't get along anymore...we were happier not together....it was not her fault and she has NEVER been placed in the middle of anything.


i agree with this. i also believe especially as a teen it would become a weapon used by your daughter. i see no need for that.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

looks to me like you want to use your child and you just wanted reassurance it is ok. i dont think it is.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

TNgirl232 said:


> Ok - so it sounds like you've already made up your mind. The majority of us have said don't tell her - but you've had a ready response as to why our opinions are invalid.
> 
> This may be true, but it didn't seem as though the "no don't tell" comments were coming from people who thought telling would help save the marriage. It seemed like the comments were from people who had given up. I haven't and I will fight to the end.
> 
> ...


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

oh, and as far as using your daughter to win your wife back by informing her that her mother is a [email protected]?
i would bet you 2 of my paychecks to one of yours that would make her resent you more. the end.


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## RunningOnEmpty (Aug 29, 2010)

Do you want to tell your daughter because that is what's right/best for her?

Or because your are upset at your wife for what she is putting you through?

Deal with your wife's action like an adult. Get pissed off, scream, go see a counselor, punch a wall, cry, whatever.

But when dealing with your daughter, you need a cool head, and you need to protect her as much as possible. Your daughter is going to be stressed, disoriented, blaming herelf. Your number one job is to be a father, isolate her for the mess you and your wife find yourselves in.

In essence, be a parent. You cannot control what your wife does, but you can control what you do. What will reduce the trauma on your daughter? What will give her a better childhood, given the circumstances?


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

I want to tell her because what she has been told is a lie. It's not because mommy and daddy can't work things out. I've told our daughter her whole life that "can't" is not an acceptable word around me. So for her mom to tell her we can't work things out just undermines the determination and drive I've been teaching her.


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## TNgirl232 (Oct 5, 2008)

There is also a thing called tact - I've been teaching it to my child - just because something is true doesn't mean it has to be shared in full or shared at all. 

It is true from your wife's point of view that you can't work things out. Whether its because she just doesn't want to or not - the fact remains in her mind you can't work things out.

If you want to tell her the truth (without the details) tell her that Mommy decided that she can't be married to daddy anymore and while daddy would like for her to stay and work things out, unless Mommy decides she can do that then there is nothing more that daddy can do. Maybe compare it to someone she wanted to be her friend but wouldn't - you can't make someone be your friend, and you can't make someone stay married to you if they don't want to.

I know that you want to teach your child determination and drive but there are things in life that will be can't moments. People can't be allowed to do various things due too medical conditions, mental conditions, etc. Some people can't dance because they simply can not pick up on the rhythm in the song. In most cases as long as "tried really hard" comes before I can't, I think sometimes you have to accept the inevitable. Sometimes people just can't stay married even if they've tried to work it out. In this case, your wife has decided she's tried hard enough and she's tired of trying and she's done. There isn't anything you can do to change that. Telling your child this will not change that. Your wife still can't stay married to you and be happy.


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## KathyGriffinFan (Apr 4, 2011)

TNgirl232 said:


> There is also a thing called tact - I've been teaching it to my child - just because something is true doesn't mean it has to be shared in full or shared at all.
> 
> It is true from your wife's point of view that you can't work things out. Whether its because she just doesn't want to or not - the fact remains in her mind you can't work things out.
> 
> ...


^I agree with this. I also agree that the OP has already made up his mind.

It is going to be tough for the child, why throw the entire kitchen sink at a 7 year oldt? She'll have the rest of her life to ask you why mommy/daddy didn't work out. You can always decide at a later time to tell her, however if you let the cat out of the bag now, you can't take that back.

I think the OP needs to talk to a counselor about this and go over his feelings and motivation for wanting to tell his child.

Also, where does this end? If your wife lies to your daughter about something else, are you going to be there pointing the finger back at her every time?


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

I wouldn't disclose any details that need not be shared. I've been reading up on this topic since i started it and have found countless numbers of places that say the truth should be shared in an age appropriate way. I can definitely do that. Believe me, I would most certainly reassure her that she is still loved by both my wife and I. 

The problem is not that she can't stay married to me and be happy, it's that she is not willing to accept her responsibility as all she has done is blame me for everything. She's blamed me for her drinking. She's blamed me for her not going to church any more. She said repeatedly that she did nothing wrong during our marriage. 

I recently just got finished reading HIS NEEDS/HER NEEDS and quickly recognized that neither of us were meeting the others needs in recent years. 

I've accepted full responsibility for my part. She just refuses to and she won't as long as she has needs being met somewhere else. She feels it is easier for her to run from the problems than work on fixing them because it would not only require that I change, but it would require that she changes. She doesn't want to do that.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

RunningOnEmpty said:


> Do you want to tell your daughter because that is what's right/best for her?
> 
> ...
> 
> In essence, be a parent. You cannot control what your wife does, but you can control what you do. What will reduce the trauma on your daughter? What will give her a better childhood, given the circumstances?


This is right on but I doubt if it is in the way that you mean it. His daughter does not need adults to lie to her and confuse her morality any more than a disloyal needs the loyal to keep their affair a secret so they can keep it going! 

If he does not tell his daughter the truth, his daughter will learn that "when you are an adult and you can't work things out...you can quit, leave, divorce them, or move out". If he does not tell his daughter the truth now, his wife will tell her half-truths that will make her think "Well...that part was true so maybe THIS part is true too." 

Is he his daughter's PARENT--who teaches her right from wrong and morality--or is he going to teach his daughter that sometimes it is okay to lie "to protect someone"? Is he his daughter's PARENT--who will tell the truth even when it's hard and hard to hear--because it teaches her that it's the RIGHT THING TO DO?? Or is he going to show her, by keeping quiet, that what her mom says is right and that it's okay to quit and give up on your covenants and lie if you think it will hurt the other person or make them mad or be hard to be honest? Which is it? Does he STAND for RIGHT and HONESTY as her parent and guide her ... or does he keep quiet because it's hard to admit his own errors and scary to have to tell the truth to his child and see the hurt in her eyes? 

I still vote that he does what is best for his daughter. Tell her the truth. Tell her that he doesn't believe mom's and dad's should have boyfriends or girlfriends...and that he does not believe that when someone makes a covenant before God that they should end it because "they can't get along." In our families we don't get along with that aunt who pinches our cheek or that weird, crazy cousin but we find a way to DEAL WITH IT and we don't leave them. 

He's not telling his daughter ANYTHING about her mom or cutting her down...that is between his daughter and wife. But he is telling his daughter what HE believes and making it clear that if she's confused about a mom and dad divorcing because "they can't get along right now" that she is RIGHT to be confused because that is not a reasonable reason....not for a kid and not for an adult.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

You can tell your daughter your truth but you're not going to get from it what you hoped. A child doesnt think the way you do. She already has her truth, a truth shaped by experiences independent of what you hope your words will mold. Nothing you say will convince her to adopt your truth. Your experience is not, nor will it ever, be her truth. 

You're hiding behind this bravado of being "honest" but everyone that has read your post knows that honesty is not your real intent. You're not being emotionally honest with yourself.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Blanca said:


> You can tell your daughter your truth but you're not going to get from it what you hoped. A child doesnt think the way you do. She already has her truth, a truth shaped by experiences independent of what you hope your words will mold. Nothing you say will convince her to adopt your truth. Your experience is not, nor will it ever, be her truth.
> 
> You're hiding behind this bravado of being "honest" but everyone that has read your post knows that honesty is not your real intent. You're not being emotionally honest with yourself.


So many of you guys think I'm trying to hurt my wife. You imply that I'm trying to get back at her for the hurt that she has caused me. I'm NOT. I still want my marriage. I am still trying to put the pieces back together. I don't want to hurt her, I want her to get her head out of this "fog" and see the reality of what she has done to me, our daughter, our family. 

At this point, NO ONE has decided to stand up for what is right and address my wife about her activities. Not her mother. Not her father. Not our pastor. 

At this point, my daughter is being told things that are not true. Our daughter has made many comments about "our family" that has brought tears to my eyes. 

As a very spiritual person, I want to do nothing but what is right. Is it right for our daughter to be misled into thinking that her world has changed so drastically by thinking something that's not the truth.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

As a parent who wishes to teach your daughter right from wrong, honesty from dishonesty you should tell your daughter the truth, your wife committed adultery and has little remorse for doing it. Telling your daughter this and then saying if your wife shows remorse your would foregive her, this will set the record straight and help you act as a light for your daughter to follow.

Your wife is blatantly lying and deceiving your child, do not stand for it an do not absolve her of it by saying there are problem in your marriage, the only problem is her affair and actions thereafter any issues prior to the affair could have been resolved, the pre affair issues and affair are two separate topics and for the conversation with your daughter should be kept so.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## just_peachy (Apr 8, 2011)

Let me relate a little of what we've done so far. My boys are 11 and 8, and they are well aware that something is terribly, drastically wrong.

While we're attempting reconciliation, we've told them that we've both hurt each other very much, and we're going to see a doctor to help us be better spouses to each other, and better parents to them. Of course, we told them it was not in any way their fault.

Separately (without my previous knowledge), my husband sat down with them both and told them that he had done something very bad that hurt me very much and caused me a lot of stress. He said I was trying to forgive him, but that what he had done was so wrong, I needed time for it to be okay.

If reconciliation does not work and we end up separating, we have both already determined to tell the boys the truth. Both of us will be in the room when we tell the boys that Daddy has found another lady to love, and that while he still loves the boys, he does not love me. We will tell them that I do not believe in sharing a husband with another woman, that it is breaking the promise he made to me when we were married, and that that is a promise I believe *must* be kept for marriage to work.

If you need to tell your daughter, I strongly suggest you do it with your wife in the room, in terms your daughter can understand - without going into details. I also strongly suggest you both, you and your wife, plan the conversation together. This lessens both the ability to, and the feeling of, sabotage.

I would also only give your daughter this kind of detail if your wife is actually moving on. That's just me, though. I can't imagine telling my boys their father is a liar and a cheat while he's still living with us - I just cannot see it helping anything.


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## KathyGriffinFan (Apr 4, 2011)

marksaysay said:


> So many of you guys think I'm trying to hurt my wife. You imply that I'm trying to get back at her for the hurt that she has caused me. I'm NOT. I still want my marriage. I am still trying to put the pieces back together. I don't want to hurt her, I want her to get her head out of this "fog" and see the reality of what she has done to me, our daughter, our family.
> 
> At this point, NO ONE has decided to stand up for what is right and address my wife about her activities. Not her mother. Not her father. Not our pastor.
> 
> ...


You seem perturbed that some are disagreeing with you...am I mistaken? You came to a forum to gain perspective from others.

With that said, I hope that if you are resigned to tell her, you speak to a counselor first. My opinion is that you might possibly coming from the place of teaching your wife a lesson, rather than just attempting to be honest with your child.

I hope that you go see a counselor to discuss this, and then go from there. Possibly, have your child talk to someone (depending on how she reacts)? Or talk to your wife and *try* to talk some sense in to her, and make a plan to tell your child together.

I believe I read on another topic that you have/had a porn addiction, I'm sure it didn't help your marriage...are you going to admit a shared culpability in the demise in your marriage or just tell your child the _momma wants to be with other men_ part?


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

No no no no no no. Do not expose your daughter to any of this or use her in any way. What kind of psychotic child hating monster does that? You like making little girls cry? You like tearing away their childhood, their innocence, their love? We're suppose kill and die for our babies if need be.


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## HungUp (Feb 26, 2011)

marksaysay said:


> I don't think I would be pointing fingers. I would be explaining to our daughter that daddy wants to work it out but mommy wants other men. I want to work it out, but her mom is so deep in the 'fog' it is unreal. I really think she should know. I think this even more so since I know that "we can't be together right now" is not the REAL reason we are getting the divorce. It is not the real reason why our daughter's life will change for ever.
> 
> I'm not angry. Hurt? Yes, but not angry. I still love my wife, as crazy as it sounds, in spite of all this, and I want to work things out with her. It just cannot happen as long as other men are filling the place that I should be occupying. Our daughter knowing may be the jolt of reality she needs to break her out of this rut.
> 
> I wouldn't be doing this for revenge or anything like that. I would do it as an attempt to save my marriage and my family.


This sounds so much like yoyu are trying to use your daughter as leverage to try and get your wife out of the 'fog' and back to you.

I didn't have children when my wife cheated (I now have 2), but I do know that whatever happens between us in the future, it is/was between us and nobody else. I do not intend ever telling our children - they may find out in their own time when their older.

I'd say you should be sitting down with your daughter and telling her that BOTH her parents love her so much - give her encouragement and reinforce the love 'from both of you'. I've been cheated on too, so I know how difficult it can be to think anything good about a cheating spouse but it is not a childs fault - it's YOUR and your wifes faults/issues.
Your wife may have fallen out of love with you, but I'd guess she stills loves your daughter aswell.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

HungUp said:


> This sounds so much like yoyu are trying to use your daughter as leverage to try and get your wife out of the 'fog' and back to you.
> 
> I didn't have children when my wife cheated (I now have 2), but I do know that whatever happens between us in the future, it is/was between us and nobody else. I do not intend ever telling our children - they may find out in their own time when their older.
> 
> ...


Who is being hurt the most by the choices my wife has made for our family? Our daughter. Those of you have dealt with infidelity and have tried to find a plan to put things back together. Most of the plans I've seen have any success say that exposure to those who are affected the most should be done in an effort to get the wayward spouse out of fantasy land and back to reality. So if you are asking if I plan on "using" my daughter to try and save our family, then maybe the answer is yes. 

Also, as a Christian I am bothered that my wife took the liberty without me to explain the situation to our daughter. She told her something that is not true. I don't want my daughter to be taught that hiding the truth in any way is the right thing to do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MisguidedMiscreant (Dec 28, 2010)

marksaysay said:


> Who is being hurt the most by the choices my wife has made for our family? Our daughter. Those of you have dealt with infidelity and have tried to find a plan to put things back together. Most of the plans I've seen have any success say that exposure to those who are affected the most should be done in an effort to get the wayward spouse out of fantasy land and back to reality. So if you are asking if I plan on "using" my daughter to try and save our family, then maybe the answer is yes.
> 
> Also, as a Christian I am bothered that my wife took the liberty without me to explain the situation to our daughter. She told her something that is not true. I don't want my daughter to be taught that hiding the truth in any way is the right thing to do.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ok, I say give her the gist of what's going on but leave out anything that could color her views of her mother. Even if divorce happens, you may not be her husband but that's still her daughter. This could seriously affect their relationship and let her grow up maladjusted(sp?). I understand that she may be attempting to use her against you but that's just another thing she'll have to pay for. I'm not a religious man but, I'm hip to the Christian doctrine, "Vengeance is mine," sayeth the Lord. Let God deal with her, he can do a better job than you ever could anyway.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

My 11yr old daughter found out about my PA and her dad's EA while he and I were fighting. She fell into such a depression and we were too wrapped up in our own crap to notice. She ultimately tried to hang herself and was put in a pediatric psychiatric ward. My daughter now has to be on mood stabilizers. She told her doctor she felt like she had to choose between her parents. Granted she found out in a horrible way but, I don't feel a 7yr old is going to quite grasp your situation no matter how bright she is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

just_peachy said:


> Daddy has found another lady to love, and that while he still loves the boys, he does not love me.


wouldnt this in the eyes of a child tell them that if one parent loved the other so much before but now said parent doesnt any more that maybe at some point the parents can stop loving the child too at?
that would be a very destructive message to send.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

There is no way to explain adult emotions, sexuality and catastrophic marital failure to child. Period. And if your other is doing it be the bigger heroic person and don't. Hug your babies and tell them that you will always be there for them 1000% no matter what and fire breathing dragons couldn't keep you apart. Don't even mention anything else. Young children look at their parents and see gods and goddesses. Be that.


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## ladyybyrd (Jan 4, 2011)

I think your daughter is way to young to understand what is going on. So no i would not tell her!


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## KathyGriffinFan (Apr 4, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> There is no way to explain adult emotions, sexuality and catastrophic marital failure to child. Period. And if your other is doing it be the bigger heroic person and don't. Hug your babies and tell them that you will always be there for them 1000% no matter what and fire breathing dragons couldn't keep you apart. Don't even mention anything else. Young children look at their parents and see gods and goddesses. Be that.


^:iagree:

And at one point does it stop. If your wife lies, will you always be there explaining every detail to your child? Will those begin to include intimate details of affairs and lying that a 7 year old cannot comprehend?

I agree with the others on here that advise you to focus on the fact that the two of you love your daughter dearly.

If you tell your daughter about your wifes infidelity, should your wife then explain to your daughter that daddy was hooked on porn (I'm pretty sure you mentioned that in another thread) and that drove her to be with another man?
I'm not privy to your entire situation obviously, but I just can't see how exposing this one fact would stop there and would not result in a barrage of barbs being thrown at one another, through your daughter.

At the very least, please talk to someone before you make a decision.


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## just_peachy (Apr 8, 2011)

2nd_t!me iz_best said:


> wouldnt this in the eyes of a child tell them that if one parent loved the other so much before but now said parent doesnt any more that maybe at some point the parents can stop loving the child too at?
> that would be a very destructive message to send.


I can't say for sure. I just know that if it comes to separation, my kids deserve better than "we can't get along anymore." In the end, that would send basically the same message - what if we (the boys) don't get along with Daddy? Will he leave us, too?

We're taking the older son to therapy next week since he's been much more tuned in to what's going on. As I said, we've given no details to either yet, other than that we're hurt by and angry at each other right now.

And, if we reconcile, it's a moot point. I've no intention of telling the boys about the affair if we can work it out; it's only in the event of separation/divorce - for which there really is no good answer for a kid.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Affaircare said:


> I'll be honest--I told my kids and they were 9yo and 11yo at the time. I really believe that kids need to know the truth at a level they can understand or else they tend to do one of two things: a) blame themselves or b) develop mixed morality from it.
> 
> I said that their dad had decided to move out because we very much disagreed about something: he wanted to have a girlfriend and I believed that when a mom and dad married they should love only each other. I also said that it was not anything they had done, nor was it that we "couldn't get along" because when people were married sometimes they don't get along and we're still supposed to find a way to work it out! But that was what I believed and may or may not be what their dad thought and they could talk to him about what he believed.
> 
> ...


:iagree:




Affaircare said:


> This is right on but I doubt if it is in the way that you mean it. His daughter does not need adults to lie to her and confuse her morality any more than a disloyal needs the loyal to keep their affair a secret so they can keep it going!
> 
> If he does not tell his daughter the truth, his daughter will learn that "when you are an adult and you can't work things out...you can quit, leave, divorce them, or move out". If he does not tell his daughter the truth now, his wife will tell her half-truths that will make her think "Well...that part was true so maybe THIS part is true too."
> 
> ...


:iagree:




Eli-Zor said:


> As a parent who wishes to teach your daughter right from wrong, honesty from dishonesty you should tell your daughter the truth, your wife committed adultery and has little remorse for doing it. Telling your daughter this and then saying if your wife shows remorse your would foregive her, this will set the record straight and help you act as a light for your daughter to follow.
> 
> Your wife is blatantly lying and deceiving your child, do not stand for it an do not absolve her of it by saying there are problem in your marriage, the only problem is her affair and actions thereafter any issues prior to the affair could have been resolved, the pre affair issues and affair are two separate topics and for the conversation with your daughter should be kept so.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

This is a moral lesson. The child was lied to by her mother. That is not acceptable! There is a way for marksaysay to tell his child the truth in terms she can understand.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

I'd tell her straight up that her mom found some other man. You may think it rough but I would not risk her mom lying to her. Kids can develop an idea from nothing. As an example when my son was nineteen we were having an argument and he all of sudden throws out that I had to marry his mother because she was pregnant with him. And that we never really wanted him. So I got out a calendar and showed him that for him to be illegitimate he would have had to have gestated for 15 months. So I naturally had to ask the question. How long have you thought that? He said always. He has treated us differently since then. Has anyone ever seen the movie "Idiocracy"? I have counseled my son on giving procreation a second thought.


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## MisguidedMiscreant (Dec 28, 2010)

Initfortheduration said:


> I'd tell her straight up that her mom found some other man. You may think it rough but I would not risk her mom lying to her. Kids can develop an idea from nothing. As an example when my son was nineteen we were having an argument and he all of sudden throws out that I had to marry his mother because she was pregnant with him. And that we never really wanted him. So I got out a calendar and showed him that for him to be illegitimate he would have had to have gestated for 15 months. So I naturally had to ask the question. How long have you thought that? He said always. He has treated us differently since then. Has anyone ever seen the movie "Idiocracy"? I have counseled my son on giving procreation a second thought.


I've seen that movie, it had an air of truth on the aspect of procreation. It also had one of my favorite rappers, Scarface, who played Upgrayedd. I love that last line when he woke up in the future, "Imma find this 'ho."


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

KathyGriffinFan said:


> If you tell your daughter about your wifes infidelity, should your wife then explain to your daughter that daddy was hooked on porn (I'm pretty sure you mentioned that in another thread) and that drove her to be with another man?
> I'm not privy to your entire situation obviously, but I just can't see how exposing this one fact would stop there and would not result in a barrage of barbs being thrown at one another, through your daughter.
> 
> At the very least, please talk to someone before you make a decision.


Your are exactly right about the porn issue. There WAS a porn issue but that is an issue I would openly admit that I had and have took great pains to correct it. I haven't indulged in quite some time and will stay committed to keeping this as a part of my past. The issue is that we all make mistakes but we are to acknowledge them and fix them. Isn't that what we're supposed to teach our kids? 

I have openly admitted my porn issue to those when describing my part of our marital issues. I'm not ashamed to tell someone I had a problem. My wife doesn't want our daughter to know because she is still entangled in it and refuses to do the very thing our daughter has been taught, accept responsibility and work on making a change. She hasn't done it and doesnt want to do it. I have. That's a huge difference.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TNgirl232 (Oct 5, 2008)

If your porn addiction is part of the reason your marriage reached the point where your wife went out and had an affair then that should be part of the story your daughter is told....otherwise Mommy is made the villain all by herself.

So the story would go "Daddy liked to look at pictures of naked women doing things all the time and that made Mommy very sad. Unfortunately because of that Mommy went out and got a boyfriend to try and make herself feel needed and happy. Both Daddy and Mommy made mistakes. Daddy has worked on fixing his mistake so that Mommy won't have to have a boyfriend to feel needed and happy, but Mommy says its to little to late and she doesn't want to to be married to Daddy anymore."

An alcoholic wouldn't try and hide that their drinking helped destroy their marriage....so why hide your fault in the marriage while highlighting hers simply because you've 'taken responsibility'. Taking responsibility means owning up to it in all ways. Not conveniently leaving out what part you had to play in the circumstances that led up to your wife having an affair when you tell your daughter the story. Do you think that won't come out in the future? Your wife won't tell your teenage or adult daughter that you had a porn addiction that was part of what led to her cheating...isn't that what you are calling lying to your daughter now? Mom isn't telling her the full truth in your eyes?

This smacks of being just a little hypocritical....


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

TNgirl232 said:


> If your porn addiction is part of the reason your marriage reached the point where your wife went out and had an affair then that should be part of the story your daughter is told....otherwise Mommy is made the villain all by herself.
> So the story would go "Daddy liked to look at pictures of naked women doing things all the time and that made Mommy very sad. Unfortunat ely because of that Mommy went out and got a boyfriend to try and make herself feel needed and happy. Both Daddy and Mommy made mistakes. Daddy has worked on fixing his mistake so that Mommy won't have to have a boyfriend to feel needed and happy, but Mommy says its to little to late and she doesn't want to to be married to Daddy anymore."
> 
> An alcoholic wouldn't try and hide that their drinking helped destroy their marriage....so why hide your fault in the marriage while highlighting hers simply because you've 'taken responsibility'. Taking responsibility means owning up to it in all ways. Not conveniently leaving out what part you had to play in the circumstances that led up to your wife having an affair when you tell your daughter the story. Do you think that won't come out in the future? Your wife won't tell your teenage or adult daughter that you had a porn addiction that was part of what led to her cheating...isn't that what you are calling lying to your daughter now? Mom isn't telling her the full truth in your eyes?
> ...


First of all, marital problems are one thing but going outside of the marriage. I had a problem but I didn't make my wife go out and sleep with another man. She chose to do that. My wrong does not justify adultery. 

Secondly, I never said that I wouldn't tell her. The thing is my porn didn't break up our family. It contributed to our marital problems. Our family broke up because wife decided to be adulterous. So do I go about listing all of the things that contributed to our issues? Yes we had problems on both sides but they were not serious enough for her to leave until she slept with somebody else and after I confronted. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

Unless it's done properly, you seriously run the risk of causing some long lasting emotional and psychological issues for your daughter. I would find a child pyschologist or therapist to start talking to her, let them determine what she's ready to hear.

Also, what if telling your daughter the whole ugly truth just pushes away her Mom even more? You seem to think it might break the fog, but what if it does the opposite? What if it makes your wife feel tainted and shamed in the eyes of her daugher, so she pulls away from her child? Mothers have left their children to pursue a single lifestyle before... be very careful in how you proceed.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Saffron said:


> Unless it's done properly, you seriously run the risk of causing some long lasting emotional and psychological issues for your daughter. I would find a child pyschologist or therapist to start talking to her, let them determine what she's ready to hear.
> 
> Also, what if telling your daughter the whole ugly truth just pushes away her Mom even more? You seem to think it might break the fog, but what if it does the opposite? What if it makes your wife feel tainted and shamed in the eyes of her daugher, so she pulls away from her child? Mothers have left their children to pursue a single lifestyle before... be very careful in how you proceed.


I wouldn't do anything but tell the truth in a language my daughter can understand. I was actually thinking more about this and somewhat compare it to the death of a loved one, an event that can also be as tramatic as what my family is going through. Do you hide the fact that a loved one has died or do you explain in a way the child can understand?


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## twotimeloser (Feb 13, 2011)

In my opinion, you would be asking a 9 year old to develop emotional maturity that most adults do not have. That is the capicity to forgive. 

A child can process the act, the concept and the tresspass, but to ask them to forgive and not have it change the ongoing perception of the indivual cheater is much to ask of a 9 year old.

That is my opinion.


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## purrhotstuff (Apr 21, 2011)

Here is what I found on some sites:

*What to say and how to say it
*
Difficult as it may be to do, try to strike an empathetic tone and address the most important points right up front. Give your children the benefit of an honest—but kid-friendly—explanation.

* Tell the truth. Your kids are entitled to know why you are getting a divorce, but long-winded reasons may only confuse them. Pick something simple and honest, like “We can’t get along anymore.” You may need to remind your children that while sometimes parents and kids don't always get along, parents and kids don't stop loving each other or get divorced from each other.
* Say “I love you.” However simple it may sound, letting your children know that your love for them hasn’t changed is a powerful message. Tell them you’ll still be caring for them in every way, from fixing their breakfast to helping with homework. 
* Address changes. Preempt your kids’ questions about changes in their lives by acknowledging that some things will be different now, and other things won’t. Let them know that you can together deal with each detail as you go.

*Avoid blaming*

It’s vital to be honest with your kids, but without being critical of your spouse. This can be especially difficult when there have been hurtful events, such as infidelity, but with a little diplomacy, you can avoid playing the blame game.

* Present a united front. As much as you can, try to agree in advance on an explanation for your separation or divorce—and stick to it.
* Plan your conversations. Make plans to talk with your children before any changes in the living arrangements occur. And plan to talk when your spouse is present, if possible.
* Show restraint. Be respectful of your spouse when giving the reasons for the separation. 

Be age-aware. In general, younger children need less detail and will do better with a simple explanation, while older kids may need more information. 

-------------------

*3. Remain Calm and Avoid Blaming.*

The manner in which you present this news to your kids will, in large part, affect the degree of their anxiety and whether they anticipate a positive outcome for themselves. If the meeting becomes a screaming match, your kids will be far more unsettled about what is happening. Instead, avoid the tendency to assign blame or say whose “fault” this is. To the extent that you can, try to incorporate the word “we” when you’re explaining the decisions that have been made.

*4. Provide a General Reason for What is Happening.*

It is not important, or even appropriate, that you provide specific details about why you are planning a divorce. However, your kids will want to know why this is happening. Older children will recognize that this is a huge life change, and they will weigh that change against the reason you give them. So while you don’t want to share details of a personal nature, be prepared to give some type of general explanation.

-----------------------------

*Breaking the News*

As soon as you're certain of your plans, talk to your kids about your decision to live apart. Although there's no easy way to break the news, if possible have both parents present for this conversation. It's important to try to leave feelings of anger, guilt, or blame out of it. Practice how you're going to manage telling your kids so you don't become upset or angry during the talk.

Although the discussion about divorce should be tailored to a child's age, maturity, and temperament, be sure to convey one basic message: What happened is between mom and dad and is not the kids' fault. Most kids will feel they are to blame even after parents have said that they are not. So it's vital for parents to keep providing this reassurance.

-----------------------------
*
Be honest, realistic, and avoid emotion*

Be honest with your children about why you are getting divorced, but remember to keep their ages in mind and avoid sharing the lurid details behind your split. Tell them as much as they need to know and no more.

Read more: Telling Your Children about the Divorce - For Dummies

---------------------------------

What to talk about – dos and don’ts

* Use age-appropriate terms that your children are sure to understand.
* Stick to immediate issues – to explaining that you are getting a divorce, explaining what divorce means, and addressing immediate concerns such as who is going to live where.
* When explaining what will change, remember to talk about all the things that will stay the same.
* Do not go into detail about your marital problems. It is enough for your children to know that they exist and that you have not been able to work them out. However, children may press for a reason. Agree with your spouse beforehand on what this is, again, keeping it simple.
* Provide key reassurances. The things that children most need to hear when you talk to them about divorce are:
o That they are not at fault.
o That neither parent is rejecting them: that both of you love, and will continue to love your children.
o That they still have a family, including both parents, grandparents and other favorite relatives.
o That their basic needs will still be met
* Emphasize the amount of time and thought that went into your decision. False hopes must be nipped in the bud to protect your children from an emotionally damaging cycle of hope and disappointment.

---------------------------

If children truly are unaware of the infidelity, there is no need for them to know, said Sonia Rahel-Ahmadzai, a licensed marriage and family therapist in Rocklin, Calif.

----------------------------

*Should You Tell Your Kids That Your Spouse Cheated?*

Should you tell your children that your spouse cheated? In a word, no. Reason number one is the obvious. It is simply not good for the children. In fact, whatever the circumstances that lead to divorce, it is not in the children's best interest to know which parent is "at fault".

Isoina Ricci explains in Mom's House, Dad's House (1980, page 180):
"...do not give all the gory details of the fights you've had or how you feel betrayed by the other parent. Your children do not want to know--and they should not know--how you hurt each other. They need to be able to respect both of you, now more than ever. And most of all they need to know that it is all right for them to love the other parent even though you don't."

Reason number two is that infidelity is NOT the unforgiveable sin our society treats it as. Some marriages do in fact recover from infidelity, and some ex's eventually forgive each other at some point after the marriage dissolves. The hurt and anger experienced when one partner learns that the other has cheated does diminish with time. Chances are that you will regret sharing the charged emotions of the early rollercoaster.

Then What Do You Tell the Kids?

Again from Ricci, "Try to have a short, true explanation and, if possible, one that is phrased in a positive way: 'Your mom (dad) and I decided it is best for us to live apart' conveys a more reassuring message than 'We simply can't stand to stay together any longer' or 'We don't love each other enough to live together anymore.'"

Ricci emphasizes throughout her book the importance of chosing your words carefully when talking to your children about your breakup. Learning a positive language is just as important for your own healing as it is for your children. We create our own realities with the words we say. Forgiving a spouse who has cheated is incredibly difficult, but doing so releases you from the victim mentality and allows you to move forward to more enriching relationships.

----------------------------------


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## purrhotstuff (Apr 21, 2011)

My opinion is to not tell a young child about an affair. Does it matter whose fault it is? It does not change anything. All that matters to your 7yo baby is that you aren't going to be together and it isn't her fault and you both love her to no end. Sometimes mothers and fathers do not stay together but they will always be their for their little princess. All the things I read said that you and your w should do it together and come to an agreement about what to say.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

i found this yesterday:

My position on many aspects of marital therapy has been admittedly controversial when first expressed. His Needs, Her Needs was ripped by many therapists in 1986 when it was first published because they didn't believe that men and women's emotional needs were different. Today, there are very few that believe that anymore.

My position on conflict management (Policy of Joint Agreement) was also roundly criticized by some feminists as giving away women's right to independence. Of course, most of these critics were not in favor of marriage in the first place. But today, the idea of finding mutually adventageous solutions to problems in marriage is main-stream.

And, my position on radical honesty and transparency in marriage, which was definitely not in the tool box of most counselors when I first brought it up, is now becoming much more accepted by therapists working in the trenches.

At first, whenever I came up with a new idea, I'd try it out on the couples I counseled. My goal was always to "do no harm" in my effort to help. I was very concerned about unintended consequences. But as I created methods that were logical outcomes of my basic theory, I found that these methods worked amazingly well every time they were implemented. That's why I can speak with such confidence today. I've personally witnessed thousands of successful outcomes when couples learn to meet each other's emotional needs, learn to make decisions with mutual enthusiastic agreement, and learn to be radically honest with each other.

The same can be said about telling children about an affair. My experience with the positive outcomes of hundreds of families where an affair has been exposed to children has led me to encourage a betrayed spouse not to fear such exposure. In fact, to mislead children, giving other false explanations as to why their parents are not getting along, causes children to be very confused. When they finally discover the truth, it sets an example to children that dishonesty is sometimes acceptable, making them the judge of when that might occur. 

An affair is an attack on children as well as the betrayed spouse. And it's true that children are deeply affected by this form of irresponsible behavior. But it's the act of infidelity that causes children to suffer, not the exposure of it. Facts point us toward solutions. Illusion leads us astray. That's true for children as well as adults.

Best wishes,
Dr. Harley
Originally Posted By: Dr Willard Harley, licensed clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

marksaysay said:


> I wouldn't do anything but tell the truth in a language my daughter can understand. I was actually thinking more about this and somewhat compare it to the death of a loved one, an event that can also be as tramatic as what my family is going through. Do you hide the fact that a loved one has died or do you explain in a way the child can understand?



It may feel like the death of a loved one to you, but not to your daughter. To your daughter she is still just Mom.

Your wife wants to divorce you, not her daughter. If you give your daughter too much information or phrase it poorly, she may think her mother loves dating other men more than she loves her. I don't see how you can phrase the details without making your daughter question her mother's love. In this situation your daughter's sense of feeling loved and secure is the first priority.

I don't approve of your wife's choices by any means, but she doesn't deserve to have her daughter doubt her devotion and love to her child.

From the previous posts, it sounds like you should discuss with your wife what to tell your daughter. Research what to say and how to say it. You can still tell the truth without the details or blame. But everything you want to tell your daughter sounds like placing blame and fault with her Mom. 

In a failed marriage, one person is not 100% responsible. Part of rebuilding after infidelity is for both parties to realize what they contributed to the breakdown of the marriage. I would focus on that in trying to get your wife to give up the other men, rather than guilting or shaming her into it by telling your daughter.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Saffron said:


> From the previous posts, it sounds like you should discuss with your wife what to tell your daughter. Research what to say and how to say it. You can still tell the truth without the details or blame. But everything you want to tell your daughter sounds like placing blame and fault with her Mom.
> 
> In a failed marriage, one person is not 100% responsible. Part of rebuilding after infidelity is for both parties to realize what they contributed to the breakdown of the marriage. I would focus on that in trying to get your wife to give up the other men, rather than guilting or shaming her into it by telling your daughter.


The blame of my divorce as it stands now does belong on my wife for pursuing other relationships while she is married. She is thinking of no one but herself, not our daughter. 

Throughout this, I have done nothing but accept my part of the blame for our marital issues. I've don that more than you can imagine. At this point, my wife doesn't want to accept HER part because she doesn't want to so she can justify dating other guys and being unfaithful on the fact that 'I made her do it'.


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

marksaysay said:


> i found this yesterday:
> 
> My position on many aspects of marital therapy has been admittedly controversial when first expressed. His Needs, Her Needs was ripped by many therapists in 1986 when it was first published because they didn't believe that men and women's emotional needs were different. Today, there are very few that believe that anymore.
> 
> ...


By the way, when I first found out about my husband's affair the kids could tell something was wrong. My husband told them "Daddy did something to really hurt Mommy's feelings, so she's really sad right now." Our kids didn't ask for more inforation, so we didn't give it. They didn't get details, but they got the truth.


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## just_peachy (Apr 8, 2011)

Mark,

Trying to place myself in your wife's shoes - telling your daughter would not shake me out of the fog or make me want to stay. It would be the perfect excuse to finally make a permanent decision and end it.

If you want to tell your daughter because the marriage is ending, I'm one of the few who agree with you that the truth is better, so long as it comes from both parents.

If you're thinking of this as a last-ditch effort to make her stay, however, and recommit to the marriage, I cannot see any other result than that it backfires on you and gives you the exact opposite result.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

Mark ~ I can't tell you what is best for your daughter, but I can tell you why I decided there was no reason to involved my children. I have two sons. They identify more with their dad, because they want to be like him. I do not under any circumstance want to give my children a reason to believe that they are part of their father, and he is a bad husband. Setting that in their mind is almost leaving them to have some serious self esteem problems and could possible leave them in a place where they think " I am just like my dad, so I must be a ******** too" kind of thing. But as I said, its truly up to you, you know your daughter best.


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## mommy2 (Oct 27, 2009)

My children were 6 and 3 at the time. I would never have told them. They are children - babies. I want them to enjoy their childhood - save all the adult crap for when they are adults. She's 7 - she should be playing princess and fairy tales, etc. (or cars and trucks and superheros if that's what she prefers) She's 7 - she can't process and understand adult issues. 

Now, their daddy & I were fortunate and we decided to work & repair our marriage hours after I was told about the A. He never moved out, we never seperated. He ended it as soon as he told me. But even if it had played out differently, I would have went with what others have said - "Daddy & I are having some problems. Hopefully we can work it out, etc." When she's older, she'll find out the truth.


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## mommy2 (Oct 27, 2009)

I should add - my sis has a friend who's parents divorced when she was young. Once she was an adult - she found out the truth and her mother had done some pretty crappy things. (forget all the details) I think she was reason for divorce. Well, her dad never told her any of that - he always spoke highly of the mother, never led on to any of it. Once she found out as adult - she was so grateful to her father. She said she was glad he never told her and let her have her childhood. It made her appreciate him even more and gained lots of respect.


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

mommy2 said:


> I should add - my sis has a friend who's parents divorced when she was young. Once she was an adult - she found out the truth and her mother had done some pretty crappy things. (forget all the details) I think she was reason for divorce. Well, her dad never told her any of that - he always spoke highly of the mother, never led on to any of it. Once she found out as adult - she was so grateful to her father. She said she was glad he never told her and let her have her childhood. It made her appreciate him even more and gained lots of respect.


I agree with this. This guy just wants to get back at his wife at his daughters expense, and in the guise of "honesty". This kind of trauma this child does not need. I bet he has already told this kid and just wants validation. I can get an "expert to tell me bathing is actually bad for you, especially if I'm motivated not to bathe.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

oaksthorne said:


> I agree with this. This guy just wants to get back at his wife at his daughters expense, and in the guise of "honesty". This kind of trauma this child does not need. I bet he has already told this kid and just wants validation. I can get an "expert to tell me bathing is actually bad for you, especially if I'm motivated not to bathe.


No, I haven't told her yet but I will in the next few minutes after she is done with dinner. I guess maybe I did have my mind made up before I posed the question and just wanted to see what others thought. I really don't want to hurt at my daughter's expense. I want her to understand that the truth needs to be told. I don't feel as if covering up things is the right thing to do and neither does the bible which tells us to "speak the truth in love". Mommy and daddy just can't work things out is not the truth.


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## lou (Apr 22, 2011)

I had to register just to reply to this.

NO!!! Don't tell her!!!

As the daughter of an unfaithful man, my mother told me. I wish that she hadn't. I now have zero respect for my father, even though they worked their marriage out. I went through phases of being incredibly angry with my mother for telling me. In my teenage years, my dad could not have any control over me as everything he ever said about morals or ethics was met with a defiant attitude by me. I grew up with CLASSIC "daddy issues" and only with therapy was able to get over them. Even now, I have an incredibly strained relationship with my dad.

Please. Do not do this to your daughter. She needs a mother, regardless. Your wife might be an awful spouse, but unless she's neglectful or abusive, it's best that your daughter has BOTH parents (and respect for them both).


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

marksaysay said:


> the bible which tells us to "speak the truth in love".


right, out of love, not hate. hate for what your wife or what she is doing. thats not love.
wonder why you come here to inform everybody here that you are planning to emotionally abuse your daughter?


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

2nd_t!me iz_best said:


> right, out of love, not hate. hate for what your wife or what she is doing. thats not love.
> wonder why you come here to inform everybody here that you are planning to emotionally abuse your daughter?


There is no hate. I still love my wife in spite of what she is doing and still want her as my wife. If I hated her, why would I still want her. Wouldn't I be trying to run her name through the mud as much as possible? Wouldn't I be trying to retaliate by having my own flings and such? Wouldn't I have given up fighting for my marriage and family a long time ago? 

I don't hate my wife. I hate what she is doing but I don't hate her.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Lou I do understand what you're saying but I think circumstances here are very different. 

Marksaysay and his soon-to-be-ex are divorcing. No matter what the daughter is going to notice that mom and dad don't live together anymore AND she will probably ask "why" at some point. His options are to tell her the truth or lie. Telling her that "mom and dad just couldn't get along" or "mom and dad can't live together" is not true. 

One of the things that I find almost eye-openningly shocking here is that many people are advocating effectively lying to the kids "because the truth might hurt them" and then wonder why children grow up and become spouses who lie to their wife or husband "because the truth might hurt them." 

I understand lou that as a young child especially you needed to be able to respect your father. But the way to earn that respect is not to lie to you so that you have false respect for someone who actually behaves in a harmful way--that kind of duality is what messes with your mind! What a child needs is to be able to respect their parent because the parent ACTS in a way that is worthy of trust!! If your dad was unfaithful that actually was disrespectful and harmful to you and to your mom--and part of the crazy-making comes in when people are told they have to "respect" someone who is not acting respectfully!! 

Marksaysays daughter needs her mom AND HER DAD...but rather than acting in a way that builds what the daughter needs, her mom has deliberately acted in a way that tore her away from her dad, and then lied to her about the reason. Those are not actions that lead to respect. If mom/wife actually wants respect then she would need to ACT respectfully!!

Thus again, I suggest that marksaysay view it like he said--sort of similar to a death in the family. If someone dies, it is not helpful to the child (even a toddler) to say they "went to sleep" or "went away". That is lying and the child will build a life and plans on the lie. Instead you would tell a child that the person has died or maybe say they've gone to heaven or gone to be with God...and YES it is going to hurt them because they'll miss the person or cry...but they can build a life and plans on THE TRUTH. 

Details = NO. The truth = YES!!! And furthermore in a way that shows her how to deal with it morally.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

marksaysay said:


> There is no hate. I still love my wife in spite of what she is doing and still want her as my wife. If I hated her, why would I still want her. Wouldn't I be trying to run her name through the mud as much as possible? Wouldn't I be trying to retaliate by having my own flings and such? Wouldn't I have given up fighting for my marriage and family a long time ago?
> 
> I don't hate my wife. I hate what she is doing but I don't hate her.


you are wanting (or maybe already have by now) to run her through the mud with you daughter.
telling the details to a seven year old daughter is just evil i think.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best (Feb 28, 2011)

affaircare, i respect you very much and almost always agree with what you say. 
i dont feel that keeping things to the very basic TRUTH, they dont get along, is lying.
a 7 year old does not have to know the gory details of mommy wants to sleep around.
the truth is they do not get along because they disagree on what marriage means.
she will most likely find out or figure out the details when she is old enough to process them.


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## KathyGriffinFan (Apr 4, 2011)

I did a quick google search on the matter and they all pretty much were consistent:

Do not blame. Communicate with your ex and come up with a plan. Possibly, tell the child together. Be honest but be age appropriate. Avoid intimate, lurid, or specific details.

This is a 7 year old girl. 

Can't you just say that "mommy doesn't want to be married to daddy anymore, but mommy and daddy will never leave you."
You're honest in the fact that your wife doesn't want to be with you. Perhaps you could add that if at a later time, when she gets older, you'll tell her more.

If your wife left you because she just didn't want to be with you but she told your child that "mommy and daddy just don't want to live together anymore" or something to that nature, would you still be upset and wanting to express to your child that her mother is to blame. It's mommy that doesn't want to be with daddy.

Your wife doesn't want to be with you. That is the truth.


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## KathyGriffinFan (Apr 4, 2011)

Affaircare said:


> Lou I do understand what you're saying but I think circumstances here are very different.
> 
> One of the things that I find almost eye-openningly shocking here is that many people are advocating effectively lying to the kids "because the truth might hurt them" and then wonder why children grow up and become spouses who lie to their wife or husband "because the truth might hurt them." .


Okay, lets say that since Marksaysay has an addiction to porn, his wife decided to leave him over it before she had an affair (this is just an example, I am NOT privy to the details of the OP's marriage. Do not take this as what happened), should the mother have told the child the exact truth?

Everything I read said to be age appropriate. This child is 7 years old.
The truth is that his wife does not want to be with him. Why can't that be said? It isn't a lie.

I don't think the OP is coming from a 100% pure place of wanting to just be honest with his daughter. It's normal, I am not going to bash him 'cuz he's pissed off. I would be too. I just wouldn't even consider telling my child until I've cooled down and can make an educated decision.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

You guys are forgetting that my wife had already taken the liberty on her own to say that "mommy and daddy can't work things out". That is a lie. 

Mommy wants to date other guys is the truth. Mommy slept with another man is the truth. Mommy has lost her mind is the truth (LOL). Mommy and daddy can't work things out is not the truth.


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## lou (Apr 22, 2011)

Just remember your daughter is 7. She will inevitably turn "Mommy wants to be with other men" into "Mommy wants a new family because you weren't good enough."

Be SO careful in what you tell her!


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Affaircare said:


> Lou I do understand what you're saying but I think circumstances here are very different.
> 
> Marksaysay and his soon-to-be-ex are divorcing. No matter what the daughter is going to notice that mom and dad don't live together anymore AND she will probably ask "why" at some point. His options are to tell her the truth or lie. Telling her that "mom and dad just couldn't get along" or "mom and dad can't live together" is not true.
> 
> ...


Excellent post! We've got to quit condoning lying just because it is convenient. Children who are taught lying is okay will become adults who lie. Look over in the infidelity section. How many people are over there complaining that a spouse is lying? So, we should pick and choose when lying is okay? How do we do that? Lying is not okay! I know it is now the great American way to do things. Put a positive "spin" on something and classify it as truth. There is a way for marksaysay to communicate the truth to his 7 year old daughter in a way she can understand.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

KathyGriffinFan said:


> Can't you just say that "mommy doesn't want to be married to daddy anymore, but mommy and daddy will never leave you."
> You're honest in the fact that your wife doesn't want to be with you. Perhaps you could add that if at a later time, when she gets older, you'll tell her more.


You know, one of the motivations i've had for fighting for my family so hard is the fact that my wife and I both come from families where we've been taught that divorce is okay. Divorce has become an epidemic now a days and it is this type of stuff that causes it to perpetuate. 

As a Christian, I know and believe that God's will for a husband and a wife is a lifelong union filled with ups and downs. The vows include the words "for better or for worse" and "til death do us part" for a reason. By saying "mommy and daddy just can't get along or live together" sends a wrong message about what marriage is about. It's not "until things get too hard" or "until I find someone I like more". 

My wife's dad has pretty much said that her adulterous ways are okay because she has filed for divorce (even though they started prior to filing divorce). His brother and SIL say the same thing. 

My wife's mom basically says "this is what happens" and knows what her daughter is doing but refuses to say that it is wrong, in my opinion, because their relationship has never been good and this is her chance to rally behind her daughter to create the relationship they've never had. 

It is not surprising that my wife is doing these things now knowing what I know. Look at the role models she's had. I'm trying to teach my daughter the right things which include not trying to cover up the truth or sugar coat things. I'm trying to teach her that marriage is not a fad that plays out when a difficult patch surfaces. I'm not going to apologize for that.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

just_peachy said:


> If you're thinking of this as a last-ditch effort to make her stay, however, and recommit to the marriage, I cannot see any other result than that it backfires on you and gives you the exact opposite result.


You may be right. If I do have a hope that it might shake my wife up enough to really think about the fact that she's tearing up a family by being adulterous and it backfires, oh well. But what if it doesn't. 

I guess I also have to wonder. What would make you the angriest? The fact that I told the truth. The fact that your daughter knows that you made a mistake, which is pretty much what I said, or the fact that our daughter knows that you made a mistake and refused to learn from it and correct it (isn't that what we should teach our kids).


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## KathyGriffinFan (Apr 4, 2011)

> The fact that your daughter knows that you made a mistake, which is pretty much what I said, or the fact that our daughter knows that you made a mistake and refused to learn from it and correct it (isn't that what we should teach our kids


I get the mistake your wife made, obviously, but how should she learn from it and correct it? I'm just curious as to your answer.
If you have had a porn addiction since 14, shouldn't the same be said for you? You made a mistake and refused to learn from or correct it for years. Do you tell this to a 7 year old?



marksaysay said:


> You know, one of the motivations i've had for fighting for my family so hard is the fact that my wife and I both come from families where we've been taught that divorce is okay. Divorce has become an epidemic now a days and it is this type of stuff that causes it to perpetuate.
> 
> As a Christian, I know and believe that God's will for a husband and a wife is a lifelong union filled with ups and downs. The vows include the words "for better or for worse" and "til death do us part" for a reason. By saying "mommy and daddy just can't get along or live together" sends a wrong message about what marriage is about. It's not "until things get too hard" or "until I find someone I like more".
> 
> ...


Soooo, at what point do you consider divulging the porn addiction to your daughter? 8 or 9 old enough?

Mark, you're gonna do what you're gonna do. You have some of us that recommend that you don't point to the affair, some say do. Your intentions have been clear all along, you're going to tell her. 

If your wife left you after discovering your porn addiction- and like I've said before, I have NO IDEA what exactly happened and the time frame of it all- would you be honest and say that "daddy likes looking at pictures and videos of naked ladies"??

I guess that doesn't matter though, because you have already made your choice. Regardless, I hope you do this in a healthy way and maybe you'll consult with a counselor prior, to come across as best you can.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

KathyGriffinFan said:


> what point do you consider divulging the porn issue


My porn didn't break up our family. Neither did the pot smoking I used to do. Neither did the drinking that I used to do. Neither did the gambling that I used to do. I listed those things because in due time, they will become issues that will have to be addressed with our daughter at some point. We all have things in our closets that we are probably not proud of. 

My wife dealt with all of those things at some point throughout the marriage and all but the porn issue were given up many years ago. The fact is that she did not leave because of any of these. She left because she slept with somebody else and seems to want to do more of it.

Also, my porn was something she was aware of while we were dating and she never had a problem with it. She even used to watch movies with be for several years at the beginning of our relationship so it's not like it was a new discovery. I'm not trying to take away the fact that I do believe it is wrong for anytime to indulge in. But she has been aware of it for all 11 years of our relationship.


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## KathyGriffinFan (Apr 4, 2011)

marksaysay said:


> My porn didn't break up our family. Neither did the pot smoking I used to do. Neither did the drinking that I used to do. Neither did the gambling that I used to do. I listed those things because in due time, they will become issues that will have to be addressed with our daughter at some point. We all have things in our closets that we are probably not proud of.
> 
> My wife dealt with all of those things at some point throughout the marriage and all but the porn issue were given up many years ago. The fact is that she did not leave because of any of these. She left because she slept with somebody else and seems to want to do more of it.


Had the porn addiction broken up your family, would you be honest with a 7 year old about it?


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

The mistake was not the one time act of adultery. It is continuing in adultery and walking away from the family in order to continue to commit it. The way to fix it is to give up the adulterous ways, admit that she to was part of the problems that our marriage had (which she refuses to do) and recommit to the family. The way to fix it would be to not force her daughter to live the rest of her life being shuffled from house to house week after week. The way to fix it is to stop blaming someone else for her drinking, for her lack of church attendence, for her choice to pursue other relationships while she is still married.


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## KathyGriffinFan (Apr 4, 2011)

> Coming from someone who dealt with a porn problem since about 14, there may be some deep rooted issues that contributed to his issue as did mine. This does present an issue because he seems resistant to counseling. I know now why I even started and it was extremely helpful to make that discovery. I will admit that it's been an uphill battle but I've made some incredible progress. I also was deceptive about my activity but I think a lot of mine had to do with the shame of doing something I wanted to stop but couldn't. It can really get a hold of you.


The above is what you wrote in a previous thread. Making "incredible progress" does not scream to me that your porn addiction was merely years ago. 
Please understand I am not condoning her cheating ways. I imagine Mark, that you must be in great pain and still enduring it. I just cannot help but think that this is more to teach your wife a lesson, than to tell your child the truth. It's a fine line. While the end of your marriage was in part due to adultery, there were many other issues (probably) along the way. Should your child learn all of those? Should she know the big picture?

You're only divulging from the 7th inning stretch to the end of the ball game, there is a whole beginning and middle before that. In all honesty, if you want your child to learn from you and your wifes mistakes, shouldn't she know everything? Shouldn't she know that daddy made mistakes too? Heck, daddy made mistakes repeatedly over an addiction that is a big topic on this board, and some deem as a "divorceable" offense.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

KathyGriffinFan said:


> Had the porn addiction broken up your family, would you be honest with a 7 year old about it?


Yes, I would. I have been nothing but honest to all who I've talked with about our situation: our pastor, her mother, her father, my mother and father. I've told them all about my issue. If that was what caused the family to break up, I would have no problem admitting in a child appropriate way. "Mommy got tired of daddy looking at things that were inappropriate for anyone to look at" would be a child appropriate explanation or something along those lines. But I would also say that "daddy got help for that and no longer does it".


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

marksaysay said:


> all but the porn issue were given up many years ago.


This is what I said. I said everything but the porn had been given up until recently. Yes, I HAD a terrible porn problem that started well before my wife and I ever met. This is not something I've ever denied.


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

marksaysay said:


> No, I haven't told her yet but I will in the next few minutes after she is done with dinner. I guess maybe I did have my mind made up before I posed the question and just wanted to see what others thought. I really don't want to hurt at my daughter's expense. I want her to understand that the truth needs to be told. I don't feel as if covering up things is the right thing to do and neither does the bible which tells us to "speak the truth in love". Mommy and daddy just can't work things out is not the truth.


Oh please! It also says that love does not keep account of injury, and that it covers a multitude of sins. This would not be speaking the truth in" love" but in vengeance, and you know what the Bible says about that I am sure. In any event the Bible isn't a weapon. So many "Christians " use it for that. Why don't you ask your child's mom what she thinks about it? This is her child too, and she has a right to input in what she is told. I of course know that you will not do that.


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## Lazarus (Jan 17, 2011)

You tell your daughter and you screw her up and yourself. 

You screwed up your relationship with porn and your wife screwed up you by screwing another guy. 

To bring your daughter into the equation is damned wrong. Why? Because kids usually love both parents and for one parent to turn a child against the other means the child has been further burdened. Kids aren't stupid. They know. The best thing you can do is offer to be a supportive father with only your daughter's best interest at heart. 

She'll love her father even more for trying to protect her and she will likely dislike her mother for causing her father such terrible pain.

Your porn problem appears to have made your wife feel neglected. She's screwed up by falling into the arms of another man who has showered her with affection while you showered your affection on porn.

Take ownership. You blew it with your wife and she will suffer because you have the most wonderful opportunity to make this terrible situation better for you and your daughter. 

If you tell your daughter then you've blown it twice. Don't be foolish, be responsible.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

I wouldn’t tell a seven year old. Way too vulnerable for that sort of thing and her “understanding” will be absolute zero. My two sons both in their 30s know nothing of my wife’s, their mother's infidelity. And I will keep it that way. If they ever ask, they will get the truth from me.

Bob


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

AFEH said:


> I wouldn’t tell a seven year old. Way too vulnerable for that sort of thing and her “understanding” will be absolute zero. My two sons both in their 30s know nothing of my wife’s, their mother's infidelity. And I will keep it that way. If they ever ask, they will get the truth from me.
> 
> Bob


You can be honest while protecting your child. 
'Mom and dad are having problems. Dad wants to work on them but Mom doesn't right now'
7 year olds don't understand cheating. You can say it but she won't really get it.
I told my ex I wouldn't lie to protect his image to the kids but I wouldn't drag him through the mud either. Kids are 19 and 16 now and have the whole story of his abuse. At 5 and 8 they got the truth too but PG version.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

golfergirl said:


> You can be honest while protecting your child.
> 'Mom and dad are having problems. Dad wants to work on them but Mom doesn't right now'
> 7 year olds don't understand cheating. You can say it but she won't really get it.
> I told my ex I wouldn't lie to protect his image to the kids but I wouldn't drag him through the mud either. Kids are 19 and 16 now and have the whole story of his abuse. At 5 and 8 they got the truth too but PG version.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's what I'm saying! There is a way to tell the 7 year old without lying.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Wife called tonight in an uproar because she found out from daughter that I'd told about her affair. I didn't really explain it that way but that's what it is. She was HOTTTTT. She said how could I hurt our daughter like that. So I hurt her by taking her father away from her and making her have to live the rest of her childhood going from home to home?


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## lou (Apr 22, 2011)

What did you end up telling her?


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

just told her that mommy wants to have other boyfriends and you can't do that when you're married (somethiing like that).


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

I had this big long critique on your decision to say "Mommy wants boyfriends" and how that is clearly a act of desperation.....no matter how you word it. I deleted it because you've already said it!!

It's all water under the bridge now so........best of luck!! Focus on yourself and your daughter that's all you can control. 

The wife is gone......years of porn will/has killed many marriages. Sometimes changing after years of abuse and resentments just isn't enough. It doesn't matter the addiction and even calling it such pisses some people off maybe your wife is one of those types. I've seen 1 alcoholic, 1 gambler/alcoholic, and even a video game junky (WOW) all get divorced and all have since quit their respective vices. Unfortunately not before losing their wives.

So, while both of you are at fault at least you've learned what not to do, and hopefully your soon to be ex learns too. In the future stay off the porn unless she is cool with it.

Move on!! I strongly urge you from now on try to protect your daughter, love, support, and be there for her more than you even think you need to be. Trust me when I say she'll grow up fast and you'll wonder where your 7yr old went. Years down the line get ready for the backlash when you wife (if she chooses too) divulges your years of porn addiction etc etc that will be a game changer!! Always better to take the high road imo which is what I would have done!

Good luck!!


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

OhGeesh said:


> After you and your wife get divorced and this act of desperation has failed your wife will spill the beans about your indescretions.....and mistakes year after year.
> 
> About your porn addictions etc etc and in the end you'll look back and say "I should have taken the high road"


The only "indescretion I had was the pornography and last Sunday, I stood before the church and admitted it to EVERYONE because I knew that God had help with beat it. I don't have to hide behind it anymore....and telling felt good. I feel so free now.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Mark, I have to tell you something. I've followed people's responses, because I'm in a similar situation. I have a thread in Going Through Divorce or Separation that's huge, and well, there's been a new development. You know how they say the truth comes out eventually? Sometimes eventually comes sooner rather than later! I sat and went back and forth on this issue. My son is 8, almost 9, and very smart. Very intuitive, and he's got ears like a hawk. 

My H reconnected with his hs sweetheart that lives 2500 miles away, and basically left us for her, though he won't admit it. He's done a good job covering up. But now he says he started talking to her about 6 weeks ago when he was "done" with me. (But he never told me as much...I guess saying he's calling an attorney is the same as sitting down and saying he wants to divorce.) Lol. He just spent a week with her over Easter and didn't see the kids because of it, and my son was wondering why. He eavesdropped on some of my conversations and heard her name and where his dad was for the week. He just asked me about it and I said I didn't know for sure.

Well, the other night my son comes home. We've had a lot of open conversations about what's going on, but I've just said that it's grown up stuff, I don't want him to know the whole truth because I don't want him to be mad at his dad because he loves him. I've just reassured him that I've done everything I can and sometimes even grownups have to make mistakes. Well, my son says, "Mommy I heard something tonight" so I ask what. He overheard my MIL walk into the kitchen and say to my H, "How are things with your girlfriend?" and then my H said, "Shhhh". Following that, my son asked me the right questions but I let him put the pieces together. I told him that mommy and daddy's arguing and not getting along over the past 6 months was about one thing...his friendship with her and how mommy didn't think it was appropriate. And my son responded with, "She's not just a friend, mommy." He them told me that daddy left to be with her because he didn't want to be with me anymore. Hard to hear, but yes, he knows the truth. 

I'm going to get him into a counselor really soon. But you know what? He's fine. The fragile thing right now is his relationship with his father. His father has never talked to him about any of this, and now he needs to. My son is smiling, hugging me, cuddling, laughing, he will be okay. Yes, he'll be affected by it all. But such is life. Hopefully he can learn from his father's mistakes. He knows it's wrong, and he knows who his rock is right now.

Just wanted to share, in case you were still wrestling with this.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Nexy time she calls say how would she like to explain her affair ask if she would prefer you to use he word adultry, then say goodbye and put the phone down.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WAYNEO (May 7, 2011)

She is a child and should have child-sized problems. when she is an adult, then deal w it as adults. how is a seven year old supposed to grasp the emotions needless to say the more mature subject matter (boyfriends, sex, etc). you are angry at your wife, but dont damage your daughter in the process. you are the mature one. protect her. act like it.


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## WAYNEO (May 7, 2011)

WOW! u told your 7yo? So sad.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

WAYNEO said:


> She is a child and should have child-sized problems. when she is an adult, then deal w it as adults. how is a seven year old supposed to grasp the emotions needless to say the more mature subject matter (boyfriends, sex, etc). you are angry at your wife, but dont damage your daughter in the process. you are the mature one. protect her. act like it.


You're right. I am the mature one. Mature people, especially mature Christians, don't lie to cover up the truth no matter how hurtful the truth is. And she does understand boyfriends. She knows about wife's best friend's boyfriend who comes around a lot while they are over at her house. She doesn't know what the do, but she knows they spend a lot of time together. 

Maybe you are right that I'm angry. I'm angry that the truth has been hidden and that everyone has been so willing to not disrupt my wife's fantasy world and say something that would make her mad. Okay, so she's mad and may not even talk to me again. But wasn't that pretty much what I had already? But what if reality hits her in the face and she recognizes what she has done is what's best for her and not for our daughter?

Either way, I win. I've told the truth. I've also lost someone who was only out for herself. I've learned my mistakes that I vow to never repeat again. I've overcome a terrible pornography addiction that caused so much pain in my marriage. 

Or maybe I regain a relationship with my wife who recognizes the errors of her ways and recommits to the family. Maybe I get a restored relationship. Maybe we both change making it possible for our marriage to change for the better.

Either way, I WIN....


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## Powerbane (Nov 8, 2010)

Mark - I think you did the right thing.

I was younger than your daughter when my parents split. I did find out later what happened and I was more hurt and betrayed that no one told me the truth at that time. 

Kids a pretty resilient except when lied to or the truth is covered up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Powerbane said:


> Kids a pretty resilient except when lied to or the truth is covered up.


*EVERYONE *is pretty resilient except when lied to or the truth is covered up (even grownups).


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

marksaysay said:


> You're right. I am the mature one. Mature people, especially mature Christians, don't lie to cover up the truth no matter how hurtful the truth is. And she does understand boyfriends. She knows about wife's best friend's boyfriend who comes around a lot while they are over at her house. She doesn't know what the do, but she knows they spend a lot of time together.
> 
> Maybe you are right that I'm angry. I'm angry that the truth has been hidden and that everyone has been so willing to not disrupt my wife's fantasy world and say something that would make her mad. Okay, so she's mad and may not even talk to me again. But wasn't that pretty much what I had already? But what if reality hits her in the face and she recognizes what she has done is what's best for her and not for our daughter?
> 
> ...


No not really. You know that scripture about not stumbling others by your conduct? Well guy, you are made of fail.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

oaksthorne said:


> No not really. You know that scripture about not stumbling others by your conduct? Well guy, you are made of fail.


Please explain this statement. I don't understand what you're saying. If you're saying that I'm causing my daughter to sin because I told her the truth, then you are mistaken. The scripture you are referencing speaks of another person "stumbling" as in sinning because they don't see you living like a disciple of Christ should. I told the truth. There is no wrong in that. 

Romans 14:13 (NKJV) 
{13} Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother's way. 

Is the above the scripture you were referring to?


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Everyone has an opinion no one has the answer. 

Suggest you park this thread you have already spoken to your daughter, regardless of what others think, let it be. Focus on the future.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

Eli-Zor said:


> Everyone has an opinion no one has the answer.
> 
> Suggest you park this thread you have already spoken to your daughter, regardless of what others think, let it be. Focus on the future.


I agree. I'm done with it...


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## Tempted6119 (Apr 29, 2011)

I haven't read through all of the posts and so don't know if you've made a decision yet or not. But I would say you need to consider your child's well being above all else right now. It might be satisfying to you to be able to point out your wife's mistakes, but what is really best for your child? That's the bottom line. Is it going to help or hurt them? Have you talked to a professional about how to approach this with your child. A school counselor might be an excellent resource for you.
Best of luck with your decision.


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

marksaysay said:


> Please explain this statement. I don't understand what you're saying. If you're saying that I'm causing my daughter to sin because I told her the truth, then you are mistaken. The scripture you are referencing speaks of another person "stumbling" as in sinning because they don't see you living like a disciple of Christ should. I told the truth. There is no wrong in that.
> 
> Romans 14:13 (NKJV)
> {13} Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother's way.
> ...


 You took vengeance and you used an innocent child as an instrument of that vengeance. When the nazis were hunting for certain real Christians during the war they asked their Christian friends if they had seen them.They said no, they lied to protect their Christian bros, they did not tell the hurtful "truth". Where do you think they stood with God?. There is a time and a place for "the truth" and it is not your time or place, and certainly not for your motives. Better a millstone fella. Christians like you are why so many have disassociated themselves from "Christians" and why you see that famous bumper sticker.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Actually I think this is a common misconception. As a Christian I would actively hide and not wish to die, but I also would not want my brother or sister in Christ to lie for me. For me to live is Christ and to die is gain--I have nothing to fear! So if Dear Hubby and I are in jail and they tell me they will kill him if I don't have sex with the jailer, I'm going to look the man I love in the eye and tell him I love him, I'll see him in eternity and I'm not doing what I know is wrong. Wrong is wrong no matter how "stressful" the circumstances, and lying is wrong. And yep I practice it that stringently applying what I preach to my own self.


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## KathyGriffinFan (Apr 4, 2011)

marksaysay said:


> Either way, I WIN....


This is a disgusting comment based upon nothing but immaturity and attitude of revenge.:scratchhead:

You already told your daughter, now I hope you focus on yourself and improving yourself and getting YOU healthy.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> "...When the nazis were hunting for certain real Christians during the war they asked their Christian friends if they had seen them.They said no, they lied to protect their Christian bros, they did not tell the hurtful "truth". Where do you think they stood with God?. There is a time and a place for "the truth" and it is not your time or place, and certainly not for your motives. Better a millstone fella. Christians like you are why so many have disassociated themselves from "Christians" and why you see that famous bumper sticker..."


This thread is turning into a flame war, and needs to end. But there are errors in this post that need to be countered. This is my only entry into this topic.

What Mark did was the _right_ thing. It is always, in all ways, _wrong_ to teach children that lying is an moral option, and that it is OK to lie to your children. A child who learns that telling the truth is right is miles above the riff-raff that runs amok in our world. A parent who is willing to teach their kids to lie, and to teach their kids that they are not worth the truth is a questionable parent indeed.

Lying is wrong, period. It is not a matter of pragmatism, it is a matter of what God declares to be right or wrong. Does this mean we therefore don't lie? Of course not, because none of us is perfect. But it is still wrong. 

The question above: when people lied to 'protect' their 'bros', is ..."how do you think they stood with God?..." If the issue depended upon their actions, then the answer is "...doomed and condemned for breaking one of God's laws..." However, since the author of this post declared that these were 'real' Christians, I'll take that as a fact. Because of this, their status with God was not dependent upon their actions: their standing with God was entirely dependent upon how God looks at Christ. The Judge does not see the believer (the 'real' Christian) but instead a perfect Christ. SO their standing was unchanged - regardless of their actions. But what they did was sin. There are moral options to any dilemma, and our actions are done for the glory of God. 

How about saying, "Yes, I know where they are, but I refuse to tell you." In that event, no lie has been told. The end result is the same, but no sin committed.

Yes, there is a time and place for truth (putting quotes around the word implies that what Mark told his daughter was not true). The time and the place for the truth is now, always. 

As for "Christians like you...etc...," the author is quite right. Unbelievers would much rather see Christianity abandoned in exchange for a modified, watered down, weak and offense-less pass-time rather than adherence to a code of honoring God above man's whims. Of course Christianity is an offense: if you are not for Christ, you are against Him, there is no middle ground. The world hates God and the truth. Not so surprising at all. Anyone who would rather avoid offending unbelievers than offend God is most likely not a Christian at all, or else has grown very little in their faith.

TP out


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

As I've read through this entire thread, it's getting obvious that this is approaching a flame war. We don't need to go there!

Affaircare and Tanelornpete, thanks for putting this dilemma marksaysay has been faced with into such well written Christian perspectives. I enjoyed reading them.

marksaysay, I think you did the right thing. It's never okay to lie; the sooner your daughter learns this, the better. I have seen first hand what damage an unbridled liar can do as an adult. It's best to teach children at a very young age that lying is never acceptable. Then, they will grow into adults who tell the truth and can be TRUSTED. No one trust a liar!


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