# Need Advice From A Man



## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

Second marriage. Blow up on Wednesday night. Longstanding issue involving finances and lack of communication like most married couples have on purchases. He and his son started a remodel project in a basement bathroom where he is letting his son live until he finds a job. 

I own the house and came home from work feeling sick and finding the bathroom fixtures all pulled out. I asked his son what was going on that I wasn't mad at him but mad that nobody thought to clue me in on this project when this is my house, I pay the mortgage and all of the bills here and I would think someone would approach me first and say..I'm thinking of doing "x", do you agree? Want to come along and pick things out? I told him later that my mention of the finances was a knee-jerk response but also meant to explain why I was frustrated and I went out of my way to let his son know that I wasn't mad at him--just the lack of communication.

Long-standing resentment on my part because I have even shown my husband a spreadsheet of what I pay each month, that it is 78% of my take-home pay but he also knows that sometimes I have to pull from savings. I would have thought his next words would be, "can I help, what do you need?" No, it was to circle the cable bill and to tell me that he thought it was a little high. While this is going on, he has spent $22K on a house for his daughter and two trips to Europe and other lavish gifts for his son because he can because he doesn't have to pay a mortgage or utilities.

He blew up real strong because I told his adult son that I pay for everything. The son told him. Husband refuses any contact with me. Sneaking into the house after hours leaving early. I've dealt with it for maybe 1/2 a day but this is a bit different. 

Not liking having the son who has no good will toward me living here for free while living the good life especially after this but I would never tell my husband this because it isn't fair because my son lives here (Autism) and my daughter might move in after graduation too in the future so fair is fair.

I am living my life in the interim and actually at peace. I have not made an effort to speak with him since yesterday morning because there was an issue to resolve involving my son. I plan to honor his space.

So is this a deal breaker? How long will you guys need to have no contact on average to resolve anger and sort things through? Awkward situation.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Not a guy, but I have had some similar types of issues with my H (my house, his house, money for this, money for that, etc....we don't have the kids, though).

What helped in our case was that I did a bunch of marriage related research and ended up finding Marriage Builders. Their program has a way of getting both spouses to agree on these types of decisions before making them. They call it the Policy of Joint Agreement. We use this now and it has eased up on so many stressful issues in our marriage.

The deal is though, that BOTH spouses have to be willing to implement the principals or else it obviously won't work.

Is it a deal breaker? Well, do you want to stay married or not? It can be worked through, but does he want to work on it or not?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I agree with the Policy of Joint Agreement. It's a good idea as long as both spouses honor it.

Why isn't your husband paying any bills? If he has the money to spend as he does, it seems very wrong for him to saddle you with all the household expenses.

I would also be upset to come home and find out that a bathroom was gutted and nothing said prior to that.

Right now it sounds like they are walking all over y ou.


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## Ostera (Nov 1, 2012)

Something isn't right here... you pay all the bills and his money goes towards his adult children? NOT.

My wife has 4 kids, all older than 18. I wouldn't tolerate paying all the bills while they live off my wife..

That would be a deal breaker.. I would not go around broke so the 'kids' can have a good life.... 

Husband needs to see you as the #1 priority..


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

I will read the policy of Joint Agreement; however, if the past is a predictor he won't . He told me when we were dating of how he did counseling with his ex. When we had an issue 2 years ago when he wanted experimental bariatric surgery in Mexico and I couldn't tell anyone or go with him I asked him about counseling and he said if there are no surprises, I isn't long and it's for me to give feedback about you I'll go.

As far as why I paid bills for so long. When we were first married there was a fear his ex would get into my finances so we kept separate accounts. He owns a small business so no bi-weekly paycheck like mine. I bought his house so he could use the equity to get her a house down payment. I have had a full-time good paying job and a bank account and it started out that he gave me some help. I knew cash was tight earlier at the shop and he had Child Support. He told me more than once if I need $ ask for it. I don't like to ask and think he should know if he is not paying he should throw in some $.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

Ostera: I have told my husband more than once that I don't want to be treated better than his kids--just like them. I found my wedding ring from my first marriage on his pregnant 19 YO daughter's purse. He apologized. A few months later he confronted her she denied. 6 months later I find an e-mail on our joint e-mail acct that he bought her a cruise and her half-sister to boost her self-esteem days after he took me shopping to replace a couch we had to pull eachother off to stand up but he asked me to hold off buying because we needed to be conservative to save money for the shop loan.

This Thanksgiving I cooked 10+ hours for a nice traditional dinner. He thanked his family for their time in joining us but no public thanks to me for my efforts!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

This guy is out of line. I'll say that up front, still, I'm a father and when I sense my kids are in trouble or need help, I feel an almost irrational burden to help them. Numbers on a piece of paper won't overcome that any more than the appearance of flames would keep from running into the house and trying to drag my kids out. It's just not a rational thing.
You should have been consulted about this remodel thing, not because you earn X or pay X or your name is on the mortgage. You are married. You should have been consulted because it is a major decision and you are half of a team that is supposed to behave in a mutually respectful way. "Your" house belongs to some lending institution. You and your husband likely own some equity. Who owns what is something a court would decide should your marriage fail. It will be considerably less than either of you care to believe. 
Making assertions of power and authority in a relationship based on who pays what is dangerous. When I met my wife, she was paying her own mortgage, car payment, earning her own living, etc. She no longer works and hasn't for the past couple years. Without me, no house, no car, no food, no nothing. These power balances can and do shift. If you set the standard that whoever pays the most is in authority, you could end up with the crap end of the very stick that you poked into the cow pie. A man's pride is traditionally associated with his role as provider. This "I pay everything" statement, even if it's true, cut your husband very, very deeply. That is especially true because you didn't say it to him but to his son, the one person this man wants most to appear large and in-charge to. You humiliated your husband before his own son. I don't guess a woman can really get what that would mean to a father, but, trust me, it'd be like ridiculing his sexual prowess in the presence of his buddies. 
You two are rational adults. I believe if the matter were approached with some empathy from both sides, you both have reasons to apologize and you both have much to lose if this marriage fails and much to gain from it's success. If the fixtures haven't been installed, they can be exchanged for something you prefer. If the price for marital peace and for getting this ultimately self-sufficient and out of your marital home and pocket book is you have less than perfect bathroom fixtures downstairs, that's a small price. It's a toilet, not an investment in a work of art. People will crap in it. If it's excruciatingly hideous, after the kid leaves, chunk it on the curb and install one you like as a celebratory present to yourself. It honestly is, just a toilet and a sink. Most of the world use a hole in the dirt or a bucket. If it just works, it would be considered a scientific marvel to most of the earth's inhabitants. 
Pick your battles. It's only life and none of us are getting out alive or taking anything with us. Relationships are what are important.


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

I TOTALLY agree with you and apologized for revealing the financial to the son but not the lack of communication. I said normal married couples would have discussed this. He doesn't seem to think that is necessary. He has given his step-daughter from his first marriage a car that wasn't worth much but when he bounced the 2nd of 2 pmts I paid it and it was put in my name. He GAVE it to her without any discussion with me. I told him this was something we should have discussed. That was like 8 years ago. This is a pattern. He buys the son $254 pair of non-prescription sunglasses but doesn't pay the bills. He bought the son two trips to Europe, NFL playoff tickets, airfare to Chicago, Masters Tickets---I might have been wrong but this got to me. When the son graduated hubby said his son and his girlfriend were going to live in our furnished basement. I told him that I wasn't for them living together in the same room as that was not how I was raised and it would send a message to my daughter if she wanted to do that later on. The son and his girlfriend don't speak to me and it's no fun sharing a house with people who don't like you. I don't care if they screw like rabbits at college. I was their age once just not cohabitating in our home. No further discussion was held other than his calling me a prude--the girlfriend is living at the house too. Can you see that I feel as his wife I don't matter?

I am old fashioned and felt a husband and a wife are a team working together to face life's ups and downs. I loved seeing him every day. I told him curling up with him at the end of each day and waking up with him was the best thing in my life. I want that back. My "authoritarian" stance is a byproduct of trying to communicate fairly and honestly without any mutual effort to resolve. I feel if I were asked I would have agreed with the project but was hurt because I felt that it doesn't matter that I help out--he doesn't think enough of me or a sense of partnership to just ask me.

In closing, you are right on so many levels but he needs to recognize this spending can't go on...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

wifenumber2 said:


> I will read the policy of Joint Agreement; however, if the past is a predictor he won't . He told me when we were dating of how he did counseling with his ex. When we had an issue 2 years ago when he wanted experimental bariatric surgery in Mexico and I couldn't tell anyone or go with him I asked him about counseling and he said if there are no surprises, I isn't long and it's for me to give feedback about you I'll go.
> 
> As far as why I paid bills for so long. When we were first married there was a fear his ex would get into my finances so we kept separate accounts. He owns a small business so no bi-weekly paycheck like mine. I bought his house so he could use the equity to get her a house down payment. I have had a full-time good paying job and a bank account and it started out that he gave me some help. I knew cash was tight earlier at the shop and he had Child Support. *He told me more than once if I need $ ask for it. I don't like to ask and think he should know if he is not paying he should throw in some $.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



There is the problem right there. Expecting a mind reading spouse. This is BASIC BASIC stuff!

Okay, let me inform you how HE is feeling.

One, he is either a) not liking that he's had to crawl to his current wife for money to live or b) a manipulative loser jerk (more on this later)

Two, when you laid out the finances on a spreadsheet, this rubbed salt into the wound. Essentially, you called him a loser in business. The message you sent (not meant) was 'Why aren't you supporting this household?' IF (and I say IF) he has any sense of masculine pride, he felt awful about this but since as you say he's an independent business man, there isn't a lot he CAN do to MAKE people give him money if he's already trying as hard as he can. So he felt that was a cheap shot.

Third, what he is trying to do with the remodel is a) fill his time and b) give you a non monetary 'benefit'. He can't necessarily help with the finances, so he thought he'd do something nice to you. A surprise. Of course, the fact that suddenly you can't take a shower is a BIG surprise! One he didn't anticipate. While you tried your best to moderate your tone, want to care to guess what the SON heard? Why the hell are you talking to him instead of your husband anyway? All son probably passed along was the ingratitude. I've heard wives speak to their husbands in those gentle measured 'Jimmy do you know how you were bad?' tones and all men know exactly how p*ssed the woman is with us, with a soupcon of contempt for the guy in question, treating us like we are in 2nd grade. Not your intention, but you didn't hide a thing.

Fourth, when you spoke to his SON, he felt you belittiled his manhood and ability to provide for his family. It wasnt' bad enough you rub _his_ face in it, now you are making it public.

Fifth, since things ended so horribly with his children from a previous marriage and since he's been WILLFULLY hiding finances from his ex, he probably feels he shortchanged his kids. Hence the 'gifts', trickling cash and stuff to them quietly to make up for his lack.

Sixth, if, as you say, his ex wife is a wallet bloodhound, tracking every spare ducat he has, he's probably a bit gunshy in discussing finances WITH YOU. He might (MIGHT) be hiding money still. After all, his last wife raped him...and things seem rocky with you.

If he's a manipulative jerk, there's nothing to say but perhaps pull the eject handle. 

However whatever his Character, because of your Lack of Communication (he should 'just know' right? Right? REALLY?), the money situation has become a 'status quo'. This is the new normal and like every human being on the planet, he's already 'budgeted' his money for other purposes. What these purposes are, I have no idea.

Please note, that I am not Defending his actions, but giving you the rationales behind them. 

So...what do you do?

You need to mention that the money situation isn't working for you. That while you appreciate his contribution, there needs to be some equity. Outline the bills and tell him he has 2-3 months to 'find' his share...or have a frank discussion with you about the state of HIS finances. Say this lovingly but firmly. Tell him that it isn't fair to constantly drain your savings. HE offered! HE said to tell you when you need money. Well, now you are telling him! Express every confidence that he will do the right and noble thing.

Tell him that you respect what he is trying to do in the bathroom and want a say in how things go. Here is the other turd in the punchbowl. You bought HIS house. So he isn't seeing it as YOUR house. It was his. He felt no need to ask permission to change HIS house. It is making him feel that he is no longer control in the basics of his life. He wants to paint on the walls of his cave darn it and his wife isn't letting him, showing him the title...

Mention that if he doesn't 'do' counseling, then he is picking the path of communication. Either you can talk to a counselor, OR to each other. Not talking is NOT an option.

Hopefully this helps


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

It helps a lot. I could be more clear about asking for money but how does one live in a house, enjoy gas, electric, water, cable services etc. and not want to offer to pay "some money" to help out. 

I did the spreadsheet as a means to take emotion out of it, make it more like a business analysis and line up what it takes to run the house, how much I take home and what I pay. I make him spreadsheets for his business-related bills, rental payments and if he loans an employee money and he likes them. I think in the past year I said I could draw one up each month so we could split expenses but I don't know if he heard it or if I was direct enough. 

He is not destitute. He is able to spend on his kids (scroll up). 

His response to the spreadsheet was not one of anger. He looked it over and said that the cable bill was high--not how can I help. 

The bathroom downstairs was never an issue until the son wanted it done. The son and my husband remodeled an upstairs bathroom when my son and his lived upstairs. This was 5 years ago and the floor wasn't grouted, the floor boards are still off and gathering dust and the mirror they pulled off wasn't replaced. This bathroom is now used mostly by my son and there is no urgency to fix that one like it is with the one downstairs. At least with the upstairs bathroom he told me what he wanted to do and I supported it and we both went and picked out the fixtures together. Normal stuff!

There is more to this situation than the above event. During the last two years he has also been hotly pursuing kinky stuff. I'm ok with being kinky with him alone at home (toys, clothes, etc.). but I've told him no third parties/swinging. He wants to go to private clubs, have me flirt and make out with another woman and he wants me to dress real sexy and pick up a man while he watches--he doesn't necessarily want it go any where just wants me to flirt. I've tried to find a middle ground but how many times can you tell him lovingly and to the point that this is making me uncomfortable. I told him what I was comfortable with in clear words. I think if I felt more respected, I would do more to drive him wild at home but I feel more like a prostitute than a wife. 

I was sick Monday night. I slept two hours. I moved out of our room into the family room because every time I coughed, he tossed and turned. He came in to the family room at 4AM asking me why I was out there. I told him that I couldn't sleep, I was keeping him from sleeping and felt that one of us should at least get rest. I told him that I had 2 hours of sleep and felt bad. He told me to come back to bed. Less than 5 minutes later, he is groping me and wanting sex. I normally wouldn't have said anything but I said "Didn't you just hear what I said? I am sick? Why is it when you are sick, I leave you alone so you can rest and get better. When I'm sick, I don't have that same choice?" I was angry because he didn't listen, he didn't care about me--he only cared about his needs. I gave in to a quickie so I could get some rest and this may have made him mad on top of the bathroom issue. 

I try to be kind, I try to be patient and decide what situation requires saying something--always thinking would it cause more harm than good, I try to communicate clearly, and I put my marriage first.

I think I just got tired of it. I now know I shouldn't have said anything to the son. I apologized to him but it's up to him if he will accept it. I don't apologize for my frustration of his not acting like we are a married couple where we do communicate about issues such as "projects", lack of respect and money as well as the treatment his kids get over me. He has great points--he is wonderful with my autistic son. He is kind to many people. I have stayed in this because I have seen good. I would love it if he would say yes to counseling but he wasn't interested two years ago because he didn't want any surprises or more than a session or two. He said he would be glad to go to give the counselor feedback about me.

Sorry for the length but I feel like I need to provide detail needed to identify all dynamics and good advice from a man's point-of-view!

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I'll never understand all this his stuff, her stuff business in marriage. I know that's how a lot of people do it, but I just don't get it. Sure looks like it just leads to trouble.


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

I wanted a joint account and an "us" approach. He didn't want that. In the beginning due to his recent divorce and protecting my assets from his wife. Most couples have a joint account and pay their bills first and discuss other potential purchases. That is what I wanted. Husband owns a small business and does not take a bi-weekly salary. If someone pays in cash he is walking around with a wad of cash. He will help out some but it's not routinely.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Two issues: 1. Why does he feel the need to give in to his kids' every demand? Guilt? Helping them out if they truly need it is great. Buying 250.00 sunglasses when bills need to be paid isn't logical or necessary.
2. Why is he reluctant to talk to his wife about finances? Is he afraid? Is he embarrassed? Does he feel some sort of irrational, narcissistic sense of entitlement?


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

My kids know that I will always be there to take care of their needs. Their "wants" I review on an individual basis. Case in point, bought my daughter a $399 laptop for college. It got stolen. Insurance paid for replacement. One year later she thinks she needs a MacBook Air ($1199). I told her that I didn't see what the need was but if she felt it was that important, I would help arrange for a 12 months same as cash purchase and she agreed she could afford $100/month. Unlike his son, she has worked since she has been in high school and while in college she tutors in two places and has some monthly child support from her Dad. I bought her Microsoft Office software because she did need that for school. That is how I differ from my husband.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

What a selfish prick. He doesn't need to be shown a spreadshee to know he's living rent and utility free.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

How old is this "boy"?


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> How old is this "boy"?


52.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mel123 (Aug 4, 2012)

Sometimes you don't get respect if you don't demand it, please don't let them treat you like a door mat.

When my sons graduated HS , I told them If they wanted to live at home they had to go full time to college. If not, they had to leave our home, otherwise they would have to get a job and pay rent and food expense, or move out. I was tough on my boys, all three are college graduates, work hard and are productive members of society, now at late 20s- early 30s.

Your kids and H do not respect you and are walking on you. Is that what you want? You must put a stop to it or it will continue. That is most likely, why he and his 1st wife divorced ,she got tired of it. He was self-centered before you met him.

Bottom line is this, he is not going to change, unless you put your foot down. Then he may leave. 

Sounds like everyone is living off you


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

Increasingly over the past 6 or so years, I've been feeling like I've been taken advantage of and that is why I think ultimately got me upset and in the moment didn't care that the son heard that I pay the bills because I think he needs to start seeing things for what they are--he is 23 and not a child. He works when he needs money for his Dad doing business-related errands. Non-essential tasks but at least he is doing something in exchange for the money. It doesn't look like he is saving for an apt (he wants to live in an expensive part of town and husband has warned him the cost of living will be high). Instead he in girlfriend go out to dinner quite a bit, buy high end clothes and drink (not to excess--but it isn't cheap). Hubby joined the son and his girlfriend at a sports bar this week and the bill was $100! The son doesn't have the drive his dad has to be independent financially (surprise) but when he wants stuff like having husband go in a partial baseball season ticket package, he will aggressively pursue things. Husband did at least push back on that. Husband wants him to succeed; however, I think his actions are creating someone with no ambition and a sense of entitlement. 

If I push I suspect he would leave. Up to this point I felt there was good to outweigh the bad. We also have the issue that our finances are tangled (he admits this) because I ended up putting the house up as collateral, signing 50% of the life insurance proceeds and some form of co-sign for the commercial loans for his business. I told him after the argument that I was still going to do the books because I have "skin in the game" he said no. He would take away the key to my office and I said if you can get me fully released from the loan then I will walk away from doing the books (at this point it reverts back no my having no more risk associated with the business). He said "Oh I see how you are going to play this, you are going to bully me". I said it had nothing to do with bullying and everything to do with my having my most valuable asset tied up in his loan and if the shoe were on the other foot he would do the same. 

His ex was an alcoholic and didn't work. I witnessed some of her behavior but now suspect that his behavior may have been the same with her and while not the full cause for her drinking--it probably didn't help either. She cheated on him during their marriage.


My daughter who is in college and worked since high school sees this and what he does for his son (who didn't work in high school and had a 4 week stint working as a senior in college) and it gets her mad. I tell her I am her parent and I parent differently than him and while it might not be fair, she will thank me down the road for helping her be independent. 

I no longer have as much discretionary income since 78% of my take home pay goes to the mortgage and all utilities. I also pay the life insurance. Vet bills for our dogs. About 60% of the groceries. He pays the car insurance but there are like 9 cars that are in different states of repair and he loans out our personal cars to customers or his kids. Only 3 of the 9 are mine and my daughter's.

When he called me after his son told him what I said about paying bills, the only thing that my husband said the next time my daughter was in town he was going to tell her how she is a f---ing pig the way she takes care of her car and how much he spends on her car. 1) he fixes all three of his cars for free for them so it's not like he is doing anything he wouldn't do for his kids 2) his daughter's car looks the same if not worse than my daughter's and 3) I work for free. He used to pay someone $2K/month so I figure that anything he does on her car or mine is well-offset by my not being paid to work. 

My faults: I am away from home from 5:30 AM - 7PM on the days I work for him first thing, then at my real job and then for him again ( I do this voluntarily). 3 nights per week my son and I work out which he supports. Weekends work for him most of Saturday so house is not clutter-free. I will dust, vacuum, wipe down counters, try to trash stuff, do laundry. I also hate waste. And I recycle. He is working with me on getting rid of stuff. I freely admit its a problem and I'm working on it. The house doesn't have good storage (no garage and the basement is furnished and no room to store). Last night my son and I came home from a hockey game and husband had tossed my brand new catalogs that I got Tues in the trash. They were on the coffee table and really no reason to do that except out of spite.

I would like to see us having dinner at the table as a family. I try to have a nice Sunday dinner with him and his daughter's family once/month. He will say, don't wait for me to get home, just eat and he will get fast food. I have a passion for cooking and to make a nice meal for me is a way of saying "I love you".

He says I'm controlling. He said he doesn't put his plates in the dishwasher because once I moved his plates around after he put them in there. I told him that I did so because I was trying to squeeze more stuff in to get a fuller load and to save money. He takes everything I do like that personally but I'm just thinking more like a housewife and by no means trying to second guess him.

He didn't finish high school. I have a BBA degree from a major university. I have *NEVER* thrown that in his face, yet when he doesn't understand why I don't "get" a financing concept he will say "You're the one with the business degree, why am I a mechanic able to understand this." I have to remind him my degree was in marketing and I really am not interested in finance/economics. 


I'm not as into sex as he is. I'm good for about 3-5 times per week. He wants it first thing every morning and night and it must be kinky. I want half of it to be quality (making love). I think of sex more so as an extension of being intimate. I don't think that way all the time but for him it is more about getting off.

He doesn't talk much and I like to but he'll talk my ear off about his business or first thing in the morning why I don't give him a blow job or what would it be like to have "this minoriity" woman because he "hasn't been with that kind". He will talk enthusiastically with his son and the son's girlfriend with signs of active interest. I get it after being married for 12 years that you are not always going to be interested in what I have to say or want to talk but there is a difference and I get it. 

I do favor talking through conflict and try to do that. He shuts down.

We don't do things with friends. Sometimes customers that we like. I'm outgoing and do not know a stranger. I don't need to go out and party at bars etc. I just mean maybe a nice dinner out at a moderate restaurant with friends for conversation would be nice once/month. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

wifenumber2,

You work a full time job and then work for your husband before and after your job? Is that right? Do does he pay you any income for the work you do for his business?

The more you write about your husband, the more I wonder why you are still with him. He seems to be taking serious advantage of you. 

He's a grown man. He knows very well that he should be paying a fair share of the mortage and expenses to run the home.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Honestly, what redeeming value does this guy bring to your life? You literally own the house and he and his son demo a bathroom without your permission or even so much as a mention? He doesn't contribute a penny to the mortgage or maintenance of the house but has his mootching ADULT children living there? He lets them treat you badly? Then he complains about not having sex more than 3-5 times a week and wants to hump other women who are more "ethnic"? Why on Earth is this guy still there?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

By the way, someone made the comment that it's really his house. That you just bought it off him to hide it from his ex. If I read correctly you bought it off him so he'd have the cash to give his ex so she could have a down payment on a house.

So basically you financed a pretty significant portion of his divorce settlement. 

How much equity do you have in this house? If the two of you split up, he will get half the equity. But you are stuck with the payments for his ex's home down payment.

What a scam he pulled on you.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> By the way, someone made the comment that it's really his house. That you just bought it off him to hide it from his ex. If I read correctly you bought it off him so he'd have the cash to give his ex so she could have a down payment on a house.
> 
> So basically you financed a pretty significant portion of his divorce settlement.
> 
> ...


No kidding! OP, this guy is a con-artist. Go back to your first post almost two years ago and keep reading them until today. Does this guy sound like anything other than a scammer?


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

When I read this I think how dumb I am. I knew him for two years as a customer before we ever dated. He was a nice guy. We always kept it strictly business when I found out he was married I did not consider him as a potential mate. Two years later he told me that he was divorcing his wife. I thought that they were at the point of signing off on the papers. I fell in love and didn't see clearly. They weren't as far into their divorce as he insinuated. I sold my house and folded $107K equity in to the house. I bought the house so he could cash out his equity to put the down payment for his ex-wife's house as part of their divorce agreement. The housing market sunk. I refinanced to cash out to pay off the house his ex had abandoned that he was on the loan for. His loan had a 10.99% APR and I brought it down to 5%. But then he suggested a LIBOR loan because at the time, everyone was doing it so I probably will not have a lot of equity. Plus how can I sell if it it is tied up as collateral? 

There were good times and caring because if it was then like it was today I would have ended it because I divorced before and survived. I just didn't want another failure.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

I didn't intend on dismissing your feelings.

Here are a couple things that I observed from what you are telling me.

First, off, he seems pretty dismissive about your fiscal concerns. They are REAL and they are VALID. This needs a strong talking about.

Second...these 'episodes' of free spending seem to be far apart. Maybe I am misreading things, but some thing happened...and then several YEARS later, something else happened...and again a few more years and something ELSE happens.

There is a difference between constant 'binge' spending and the occasional blowout. Could you clarify this point a little more? HE has his son there...but you also have your son there as well as adding a daughter. I am not accusing you of anything. But ONE pair of sunglasses over the course of the son's life? Well...not a big deal in the larger scheme of things. Constantly blowing money to his son when the bills don't go paying...that's a horse of another color.

Third...you are letting these things build up. Men, for all their faults, tend to blow up AT THE IGNITION POINT. They have a problem, they yell and scream about the problem RIGHT THEN. 

You are letting these issues fester and build up. You need to deal with these things as they occur or reasonably regularly, not suddenly blow up in his face with 4, 10, 15 years of resentment. It isn't healthy and it doesn't allow him to correct his behaviors.

Lastly, start to defend yourself financially. KEEP that seperate account. ASK him for bill money much more regularly. You can't stop him from p*ssing away his 'walking around' money, but you DON'T finance his adventures anymore. Sure...pay the mortgage and electricity. When he wonders where the groceries are, ask him for money. When you need to fuel up the car...ask him for money. Stop being a dope pretending to be a 'good wife'. You are being a dope. 

But let him KNOW the trouble. If he won't fix it...than that tells you something right there.

You know him best. I'm a house ape on the internet. Maybe this won't work at all


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

_"Second...these 'episodes' of free spending seem to be far apart. Maybe I am misreading things, but some thing happened...and then several YEARS later, something else happened...and again a few more years and something ELSE happens.

There is a difference between constant 'binge' spending and the occasional blowout. Could you clarify this point a little more? HE has his son there...but you also have your son there as well as adding a daughter. I am not accusing you of anything. But ONE pair of sunglasses over the course of the son's life? Well...not a big deal in the larger scheme of things. Constantly blowing money to his son when the bills don't go paying...that's a horse of another color."_

My son is 23 years old and diagnosed with Asperger's/Autism. He tried community college and couldn't pass, he tried working through the State Voc program with Goodwill and behaviorally he wasn't able to work past 6 weeks. Social Security Claim pending. 

My daughter is 21 and attends college 4 hours away. She doesn't like to come home any more because of him. Her dad stopped paying child support for a while when she was under 18 so he resumed when he was able so I sign over all of those checks to her so she gets about $300-$400/month from him and I pay $400/month rent for her and $107/month for her student loan. She doesn't ask me for anything else.

History:

1) 2000 buy my house so we can get equity out of it. He figured that the check I would write at the closing would be given to him and he would reimburse me for that. Didn't work that way, I lost some savings (4 figures).

2) 2001. He buys a used car from a customer for $1K to be split over two payments. His second payment bounced. I paid it. He titled the car in my name. Two years later, he wakes up one morning in a hurry to change the oil and to fix it. Why out of the blue, he is giving it to his step daughter. No prior discussion there. I think he reimbursed me but giving a shared asset to a step child who has a father and a mother in her life was problematic.

3) The following are highlights of payments that the business makes to his son and daughter over the past 4-6 years (separate from paying college-related stuff which he should help with)


2 cruises for the daughter
2 cruises for the son

In the past 18 months:
2 trips to Europe for the son (approximately $5K each)
2 trips to the Masters for the son
1 trip to Vegas for the son and his girlfriend
Trades one pair of NFL playoff tickets in exchange for one of the Masters tickets for his son
NFL playoff tickets
Several MLB game tickets
Various NCAA road trips for the son
Subsidizing his son's Christmas gifts for his girlfriend ($100 restaurant gift certificates, $200 Cooking School)
The infamous $254 pair of sunglasses (sorry but that's just crazy)
$22,000 towards interim mortgage and remodeling his daughter's house

To be fair, my daughter went to Europe twice with her high school but at half the cost of his son's and funded by my bonuses. She did study abroad last year and again, funded by my bonus and gift from her grandmother. She got college credit for these classes. All of our bills continued to be paid by me with no extra assistance from him during the time she took those trips. 

The son's first trip to Europe was to be for study abroad but he didn't turn in the forms in time and "all of his friends were going" so my husband bartered a buddy pass for air fare and paid his way and ended up paying twice the price. No college credit for being there. Son panicked when he couldn't book a flight home on the buddy pass (stand by basis) so girlfriend and her father came to the house at 4 AM to book a flight for him through conventional billing. The cheapest (same day from Europe--like $1850. Husband didn't have enough in his company account so we used my card. I got reimbursed for that).

I don't hold it in all of the time. But it's a tough place to be in a second wife's role complaining about $ spent on his child. I think he should be able to spend without justifying but I think this is far from average spending when you really don't have the money and you are not helping out each month with your own personal bills. His justification is that the son stayed in school and didn't get in trouble. But you know, that is what you should be doing and shouldn't have to be compensated above your means for that. His justification for spending the $22K on his daughter's house was "Well she didn't go to college so that is what I probably would have had to pay for her to go to school".

I have told him off and on when the need arises when I'm in a cash flow crunch because the tenant is late with his check that I am having to pull from savings. He will get a bit snappy because he doesn't see an issue with the tenant paying 10 days into the month. In fact the tenant paid on the first for the first time in a while so my husband wanted to thank him with letting him not pay rent for a month for an Easter gift. I told him if you want to give him an Easter gift buy him a ham. He is getting a place to live at a reasonable price. In the earlier years, when I saw his books, his balance could be in the negative so to ask would be fruitless. What I am looking for is not to have to ask for it. If I'm in a pinch I will ask and he will give it to me but if you are living and not paying bills clearly you know that it costs to do that and to give me some help either at the beginning of the month or bi-weekly. Why should I have to ask. It should be automatic. He pays loans and utilities for his shop--he knows these don't get provided for free.

He just snuck out of the house so since Wednesday night he is living here but avoiding me. So if this continues by the end of the month, I will provide him with a statement of what was paid and carve out his portion. It's 5 people living here: my son and me/ him, his son and the girlfriend. I will credit the car insurance which is under $200/month for my clunker, my car and my daughter's car. If he is living here in a hostile state it will not be for free.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

I think you are correct in 90% of your post. Really. That high.

BUT...the one point where I think you are off base is not thinking you should ask for him to pay his bills. It is NOT a habit. By not asking, YOU are giving him a perfect excuse to keep things going the way they are.

He offered. All you need to do is ask

And

yet

you

don't.

So you are essentially letting him off the hook until you've finally had enough (sounds pretty close and I don't blame you much)

I am all about communication. Grabbing him by his hair and shouting "I WANT MY MONEY" IS a communication technique...not necessarily an efficient one, but it has the benefit of clarity...


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

By the way, if this guy is King Weasel (and I could be persuaded as to that fact) guard your finances since he might MIGHT see that it's time for the 'exit' strategy and grab everything that isn't nailed down (and since you indicated that he is into home improvement, those claw hammers will probably help get some of that as well...)


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

Have appt 4/23 with attorney to draw up my will so my kids are protected. My mother sensed something there so my inheritance is being highly structured as well.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

wifenumber2 said:


> Have appt 4/23 with attorney to draw up my will so my kids are protected. My mother sensed something there so my inheritance is being highly structured as well.


While you are there, please ask about the house situation. Does he have a claim to any equity, etc?


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

Thank you I wiil
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You did not answer this so I'm asking again. You work at his business before and after your 'real job'. Does he pay you for the work you do in his business? Or is this just one more way he's taking advantage of you?

If I was supporting a husband who had a business, I'd make having complete insight into his business finances before being sole income provider while he 'played' at a business that did not contribute to our joint financial well being.

Yes I consider it 'playing' at a business if the business does not bring in income... some call it a hobby.


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> You did not answer this so I'm asking again. You work at his business before and after your 'real job'. Does he pay you for the work you do in his business? Or is this just one more way he's taking advantage of you?
> 
> If I was supporting a husband who had a business, I'd make having complete insight into his business finances before being sole income provider while he 'played' at a business that did not contribute to our joint financial well being.
> 
> Yes I consider it 'playing' at a business if the business does not bring in income... some call it a hobby.


I worked without pay because of many factors: first was a sense of partnership with my husband. As a wife I never thought to draw a salary and we were trying to get the expenses down. He has been in business for over 20 years. He now has a service/writer who is a customer/friend. This guy has started to show my husband that he could be billing a bit more and offer services that are needed at a fair price for both him and the customer as my husband didn't really make the connection of what average billing is compared to a few years ago. I tried to tell him that too. I do it now because I have learned a lot and I am proud of my work, it did keep us closer, I do reap benefits as we do travel twice/year etc. AND I ensure the cash flow is good to ensure the loans are paid timely. Also I didn't want to have a level of income that would push us into another bracket when combined with my full-time salary. When I worked at night, we would drive home together and relax with a good (cheap) meal out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

Will do!


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

If you owned this home before you met and married him then he should have consulted with you before starting any major remodel on the house. If you bought it together he should have consulted with you before starting any major remodel. And the jobless son should show a little gratitude.

Just sayin'.


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

This is a bit tricky. I sold my pre-marital house, merged my equity from the proceeds of the sale of my pre-marital house when I bought his house so he could have access to the equity in it to resolve some things with his ex-wife per their Decree. So technically: the house is in my name, the mortgage is in my name. I do pay the mortgage, and all utilities. The gray area is that this is the house he raised his kids in so as another poster suggested, he still thinks of it as his. 

The son has shown no gratitude since day one and this an unresolved issue that I have is that my husband since he showers attention and gifts on him. He probably was blind to his son's attitude with be but when his daughter stole my wedding ring from my first marriage (found in her purse when I went to launder it for her) he should have set expectations to his kids that you don't have to love her but she is my wife and you will respect her. 

My husband alerted me that that the son was moving in and mention was made that his girlfriend was as well as they were December graduates. She spent some nights over in his room during Summer Break last year and I told him that I didn't want that happening as that is not my parenting style and I have to think of my kids and creating precedents--how can you tell one they can shack up and the other they can't. He told me that I was a prude. I said I don't care what they did in college--I was their age once, but my parents did not and my friends mostly agree that it is not right for 23 YO kids to be sleeping together in their parent's house. He let it happen anyways...I wasn't sure what to do after that. Maybe if I was more forceful...I will never know. I did tell him Thursday morning after our argument as it came out that he said it's your house do with it how you want (he's always said the shop is his kingdom but he'll let me do what I want in the house). I said if that was the case then why is she living here. His response, I will tell my son and her to get the F*** out of the house and I will move in downstairs.

Now you see why I just finally exploded...


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Okay, if I was just taking a 30,000 foot look at this problem, it would look for all the world like he is using you as a meal ticket. You bought his house from him, you work for him unpaid. I know there are extenuating circumstances. But what are you getting out of this? Except frustration?

But then I'm almost 50 and my eyes are getting bad.


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

I'm 50 and your eyesight is 20/20. In retrospect, I put the fear of losing this marriage over being treated with respect. It's easy when you are in the middle of it to lose sight of your 30,000 foot look.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

So buying his house was a money laundering exercise to pay the ex-wife off. It was a dowry. 

Since then though, the good news is that it has been made up for by you paying most of the living expenses. You realize that despite owning the house on paper that he is entitled to half of all marital assets accumulated during the marriage? 

So the right strategy is to blow all of his money on trips, booze, and hookers, and have all of your money go into the house. That way when you get divorced he will get half of that money in addition to having spent all his own lavishly during the marriage. 

This is the situation in which some women find an ice pick, a shovel, and two bags of lime a handy shopping list.


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

Wiserforit said:


> So buying his house was a money laundering exercise to pay the ex-wife off. It was a dowry.
> 
> Since then though, the good news is that it has been made up for by you paying most of the living expenses. You realize that despite owning the house on paper that he is entitled to half of all marital assets accumulated during the marriage?
> 
> ...


I bought his house BEFORE we got married. Your warning is well-taken and I'm leaning to retain counsel to analyze and to protect myself even if this marriage doesn't end in the near future as I am in no hurry to if Im not released from his loan. (I've warned close friends of this in case something happens to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Wiserforit said:


> This is the situation in which some women find an ice pick, a shovel, and two bags of lime a handy shopping list.


:rofl:

It's akin to a wife screwing some other guy, divorcing her husband, taking his kids and moving Stud Muffin in to the house he has to pay for.

Bad behavior is gender neutral.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

When you talk to an attorney, also talk to them about your husband's business. Even if it's in his name, you probably own a good hunk of it now. You will need to know this as leverage when you either start to stand up to him or you divorce.

Do you and your husband file join income tax returns?


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

We file joint. Those are questions that will need to be asked. Scenario is very complex.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Wiserforit said:


> He doesn't need to be shown a spreadsheet to know he's living rent and utility free.


This is how I feel about this. The guy is a con man no doubt about it. Oh and in case you haven't read her other thread HE is saving $2k a month because he no longer has to pay a bookkeeper. She's doing it for FREE at night on top of her full time job.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

wifenumber2, 

It's a good thing that you are now doing the bookkeeping because you know exactly what is going on in his business. I suggest that you make copies of every bit of the paperwork for the business. You can do this by either downloading bank statments directly from the bank. Get copies of all receivables and payables, profit/loss statements etc. And keep them somewhere that only you can access.

User either a removable drive or some place that on the internet where you can store data safely.

This way if anything happens, like a divorce, you can prove what the business is worth.


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

He came back last night . I am following the 180 detachment. I'm upbeat but not doting. I didn't apologize or raise any issues? I barely lifted my head from what I was doing when he said hello to me. I left him in peace and I chilled on the front porch enjoying some tunes with the dogs. Something that gave me peace.

Tonight Im going to read--something I usually have No time for. He and his son are watching MLB. Only conversation was did you eat as I was cooking dinner. He and son ate out while my son and I were working out.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

What is your goal right now?


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

Goal build up some "uneventful" time so I can get to a point where we can communicate. I am looking for an IC near me and reading lots of books about identifying and addressing any issues I have. Preferred outcome: communicate and negotiate for middle ground and stay together. Not sure if that is possible but I'll work towards it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

Still here. I'm trying to apply what I have been reading (the 180 aka loving detachment an Desperate Marriage by Chapman). 

Have another question for the men: H doesn't speak much in general unless it's about his favorite topics. I enjoying a quiet moment outside chilling but would be lying if I didn't feel some hurt because he and his son are having an active ongoing conversation. This happened consistently even before the recent blow up. I'm not a girly girl--I like sports, the news, his business but he will not speak to me but he is glued to his 23YO son. He Makes eye contact, asks him questions, goves his opinion. I'd understand if he wasn't living here and they only see each other occasionly but this isn't the case. Add the son's girlfriend and it only gets worse. I feel invisible and have for some time. Short of stripping in front of him, what advice do you have to have him keep his relationship with his son but also give me of his attention outside of sex. Remember I'm not asking for him not to engage with his son, I would just like the same!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

He sounds codependent towards his son and you are just the financial backer.


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## wifenumber2 (Jul 29, 2011)

I didn't think co-dep more on the lines of insecure/guilt feelings at play here. I remember when the kids would visit when they were pre-teens saying love doesn't have to cost. On some visits why not just hang out!!! you're a good guy they are lucky to have you. No response
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You husband is ignoring you. It's just more of the same. I'm sorry but he seems to do just enough to keep you around to pay the bills. Keep repeating that to yourself so that you get strong enough to stand up for your rights.

A counselor once told me that one problem she saw with me is that I was asking like the girlfriend and not the wife. A girlfriend is a guest in his home. The wife is the QUEEN of HER home. Yes the husband is the KING. But she has as much rights, etc as he does.

Stop hopeing people pay attention to you, hoping he will give you time, etc. If he will not then invite people over to YOUR home. Throw your own dinner parties. Go out with friends. Stop working for his busines for free. Stop enabling him to not pay his way. And start being a person who is so interesting that either he will want to be with you or you will find someone who will be intested in you.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

The house belongs to you. See an attorney about how to evict his son and girl friend. You probably have to give them a 30 day notice. 

Just kick them out. YOu have every right to do this. If your husband does not want them to move, he can move with them.

That's how the QUEEN behaves in her kindgom.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

wifenumber2 said:


> Still here. I'm trying to apply what I have been reading (the 180 aka loving detachment an Desperate Marriage by Chapman).
> 
> Have another question for the men: H doesn't speak much in general unless it's about his favorite topics. I enjoying a quiet moment outside chilling but would be lying if I didn't feel some hurt because he and his son are having an active ongoing conversation. This happened consistently even before the recent blow up. I'm not a girly girl--I like sports, the news, his business but he will not speak to me but he is glued to his 23YO son. He Makes eye contact, asks him questions, goves his opinion. I'd understand if he wasn't living here and they only see each other occasionly but this isn't the case. Add the son's girlfriend and it only gets worse. I feel invisible and have for some time. Short of stripping in front of him, what advice do you have to have him keep his relationship with his son but also give me of his attention outside of sex. Remember I'm not asking for him not to engage with his son, I would just like the same!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What more does this man need to do to communicate to you that you dont matter, and that he doesnt respect you? Your marriage is one of the more appalling ones that I have read on this forum, and it makes me very very sad for you. You are being used. You are not being valued, or cherished, or respected. How in the world you can stomach to have sex with this man is beyond my comprehension. I hope your rights as far as divorce goes are being discussed with your attorney in addition to everything else. You deserve WAY better than this.


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