# Caught wife in EA (at least) with female coworker



## Yankee99

Wow, never thought I would be posting on a forum like this. There is a lot of great info here. I am not the most illustrative of writers, but I will do my best to explain what happened and keep the thread updated if people are interested (I noticed several threads were the OP didn't return to say what happened)

So my wife started a new job in September, there was a lot of work for her to come up to speed on things. This entailed staying late usually 1 night a week. She told me she was staying late working with a coworker, and I didn't think much of it because it was a woman.

Then she decided she would get dinner with this person before they started their late night work, again no alarm bells. Then it was drinks after working (just the two of them), now this made me wonder since my wife doesn't really drink and usually likes to get to bed early.

During the last several weeks, my wife started talking about this person ALL the time (what a hoot she was, how much fun she was to be around), she also was becoming very short tempered with both me and our 5 year old son. I basically was not even getting eye contact from her and she didn't so much as want to sit and eat or watch a movie with me. Now my wife can be very very short tempered. When my son or I upset her, even over something trivial, she will say "I never wanted any of this, I wanted to live by myself with a dog". These moments would usually pass and I understood it was something she did, although I told her it upset me. I think it was this growing fantasy of escaping with this woman that was causing her to be short with me and our son.

About this time, curiosity got the better of me and I checked my wifes phone. There were hundreds of messages, mostly about work stuff, but also things like "miss you" "luv u!" etc. photos of the woman going about her daily activities and so forth. I questioned my wife about it and told her I thought it was strange, she told me it is how women communicate. Then she got angry that I read her messages. I noticed after that that there were obvious deletions in texts going back and forth.

Again, curiosity got the better of me so I devised a method of tracking her when she had her next late work night. Now at this time I had REALLY let my wife know that the situation was making me uncomfortable, that I felt ignored and that she was obsessing over this woman. She told me I was ridiculous, but did make a brief effort to be nicer to me. Now this woman invited herself to our son's birthday party (at least thats what my wife said) and I told her this made me really uncomfortable and was really inappropriate (it was a small gathering) Now this woman is pushing 50 while my wife is 36, this woman has two older children (and a husband) so there was no reason for her to be at the party. So I know that my wife stayed at work, went for a drink and then went - drumroll - to a vacant parking lot for about half an hour. At this point I lost it, accused her of cheating and said "how can you explain that" She claims she wanted to tell the woman not to come to the party because I felt uncomfortable. This is where my BS detector went off. Over the last few days, I kept telling her how uncomfortable I am with all the constant texting and spending time together, then she locked her phone.

Yesterday was a weird day, she told me she loved me several times, even cuddled with me but the issue of this woman kept coming up. Now I was in the full press for the truth. I pushed and pushed, specifically about how can you explain being in a parking lot?

Finally I told her I knew what was going on because I found a way to recover her messages (I hadn't) and that the messages contained declarations of love for each other. I said, tell me the truth or I am sending this to her husband.

Then she blurted out "I'm in love with her" and now claims that what happened in the car is that they were talking about the birthday party and the woman said "yeah that would be hard to explain, I would have to tell them I'm in love with you" To which my wife reciprocated.

Again, this is her story and while I have doubts, I think it may well be the truth since the floodgates of truth opened up when I threatened to expose the "texts" to the womans husband.

Things got a little ugly here, as my wife basically kept insisting "we are friends and coworkers and I am not going to stop seeing her" I said, yes, you have to see her at work, but you shouldn't be spending time together alone outside of work hours, this relationship is not appropriate. This talking circle went around for awhile and then I kind of snapped and said "look, either continue with this and I am telling her family our parents, your friends, your boss or end this relationship and come to counseling with me"

Here is where she finally started to cry, only once the prospect of not continuing this relationship continued. She told me I was a control freak, that I had monitored her and tricked her into telling me the truth (not her exact words but yes, she was mad I tricked her into divulging the truth) She was getting really emotional and I said "should we get this woman on the phone and have a chat?" Finally I told my wife she should probably go talk to her because she was getting really angry and frankly I was a little scared (again she has a temper). I was expecting my wife to be gone a long time, but she was only gone about an hour. Came back, said they are not continuing (although all they did was acknowledge their feelings before and not act physically on them, according to my wife) It seems this woman does not want her family finding out and that they are going to stop seeing each other after work.

Oh, and I am a psycho control freak, she won't live in this "prison" with me anymore and she will go to counseling only as a means to find out how to proceed in the divorce process. This all happened last (sunday) night. Now today she is still extremely angry and not at all remoresful (through emails, of which I have tried to take the high road and not be angry)

So basically 2 weeks ago (at least when I noticed it) I noticed my wife shining up like a school girl in love when she talked about this woman, unending texting (with a big lovesick smile on her face) gave her ample warning that I was suspicious, was lied to and finally had to resort to some less than honorable means to get the truth.

This forum was helpful in that I knew I wanted to act quickly. Strangely, when my wife said "I am in love with her" I felt a weight had lifted off my chest because not only was she denying it, she was basically trying to convince me I was going insane for even questioning her and saying "I feel sorry for you that you have such unfounded anxiety"

Now I know a lot of people would say to leave her, but she is a good mother for the most part and I truly believe that staying together is the best for me my wife and especially our son. But it looks like I maybe dragged through the divorce wringer, which I am not looking forward to.


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## ThreeStrikes

Tell the OW's husband, and expose the affair far and wide.

Then file for D.

If your WW shows genuine remorse, then consider marriage counselling.

Sorry you are here. My ex's last affair was with an older lesbian woman....just like yours


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## bryanp

Your wife is lying. You do not go to a parking lot in a car for at least a half an hour to tell her not to come to the birthday party. You both don't tell each other that they are in love with each other with at least kissing. Your wife is playing you for a fool. It would be no different if the other person was a man. You need to:

1. Tell the OW's husband immediately. If the roles were reversed wouldn't you want him to have told you?

2. Expose this to her family.

3. See a lawyer to understand your options.

4. Your wife's temper is a form of emotional abuse toward you and it is quite telling that you are afraid of her when she gets angry. This is no way to live a life.

5. Your wife by her actions shows she has very little respect for you. If you do not respect yourself then who will?


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## Yankee99

bryanp said:


> Your wife is lying. You do not go to a parking lot in a car for at least a half an hour to tell her not to come to the birthday party. You both don't tell each other that they are in love with each other with at least kissing. Your wife is playing you for a fool. It would be no different if the other person was a man. You need to:
> 
> 1. Tell the OW's husband immediately. If the roles were reversed wouldn't you want him to have told you?
> 
> 2. Expose this to her family.
> 
> 3. See a lawyer to understand your options.
> 
> 4. Your wife's temper is a form of emotional abuse toward you and it is quite telling that you are afraid of her when she gets angry. This is no way to live a life.
> 
> 5. Your wife by her actions shows she has very little respect for you. If you do not respect yourself then who will?


Whoa, stings a little when reality slaps you in the face, but thanks because I think I needed it. I am still willing to reconcile, yes at a minimum there had to be kissing I think you are right. I do want to reconcile for the sake of our child, I think the next several days will be very telling.

You struck a nerve with the temper because that is something I have been dealing with for a long time. My wife when angry can be extremely hurtful and will try to say whatever she can to make you feel bad about yourself. I can't even express how skillful she is at doing this.

Man, this reality is coming down heavy on me. It is hard to imagine not living with my child, I am terrified she will turn him against me without me there every day. She has never questioned my parenting.

If I do end up having to expose this (assuming they continue) I feel like I would need some real evidence. Any suggestions.

This kind of sucks, but the reason I am here is for objectivity. Thanks


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## tom67

Like everyone said expose to her husband both families but don't tell her just do it.

That's your only shot of ending this imo.


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## Hoosier

Just because your wife is having an affair with another woman it is no different than if it were with a man. Read all you can here about infidelity and plan your actions. Especially the note about "Let them go" If I were you I would DEMAND NC, have your wife quit her job, as NC is NC. Tell the other womans husband, he deserves to know and will be another set of eyes on the situation. Your wife is still in the "fog" just has taken it underground. Then ask yourself, if your son were to come to you in this situation, what would you tell him? What are you showing him by sticking around and being a doormat? Do you really think the "best" situation for a child is living in a home where his mother is having an affair with another married woman, while his father sits intimidated in the corner? Get a pair, be a man, he deserves this from his father.


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## Thorburn

*but she is a good mother for the most part and I truly believe that staying together is the best for me my wife and especially our son*


REALLY!!!!!!! 

Read this over and over again. Then read your post. Your wife is cheating on you, folowing the entire cheater's script of control, being in a prison, etc.

She is a rotten lying cheating mother and poor example for you son.

And are you really trying to convince us that you and your son being with a cheating, lying, and who knows what else, is the best for the two of you?

COME ON. IF THIS WAS THE CASE YOU WOULD NOT POSTING HERE.


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## Thorburn

she is a good mother for the most part


I am going to repeat this REALLY!!!!!!!!

You still have not convinced me.


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## badmemory

Yankee,

You need to rid yourself of the stereo type; that a wife's affair with another woman is not as threatening or as devastating. I would agree that same sex friends would not be a red flag for starters; but once you establish that there is an A, you should think of it no differently than if it was another man.

And proceed accordingly.


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## Yankee99

What is NC and what is the cheater's script? I am still not up to speed on everything.

No thoughts on possible reconciliation? Seven years of marriage and I do believe this is the first instance although I could always be wrong. Normally it was straight to work and straight home, not a lot of this "extra" time that I have seen in the last few weeks.

So yes I know divorce is an option, but still feel like reconciliation should be an option. First there needs to be remorse from her, which I have not seen yet.


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## Yankee99

badmemory said:


> Yankee,
> 
> You need to rid yourself of the stereo type; that a wife's affair with another woman is not as threatening or as devastating. I would agree that same sex friends would not be a red flag for starters; but once you establish that there is an A, you should think of it no differently than if it was another man.
> 
> And proceed accordingly.


Agreed, thats how I am treating it now.


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## tom67

Yankee99 said:


> What is NC and what is the cheater's script? I am still not up to speed on everything.
> 
> No thoughts on possible reconciliation? Seven years of marriage and I do believe this is the first instance although I could always be wrong. Normally it was straight to work and straight home, not a lot of this "extra" time that I have seen in the last few weeks.
> 
> So yes I know divorce is an option, but still feel like reconciliation should be an option. First there needs to be remorse from her, which I have not seen yet.


Yankee there is a saying here and it really fits "in order to save the marriage you have to be willing to end it"
NC is no contact.


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## harrybrown

Sometimes, you have to shock her into the consequences.

File for divorce.

She may wake up from the affair fog, she may not.

Give her the divorce papers. See what she does.

How would she like it if you had an affair?


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## tom67

harrybrown said:


> Sometimes, you have to shock her into the consequences.
> 
> File for divorce.
> 
> She may wake up from the affair fog, she may not.
> 
> Give her the divorce papers. See what she does.
> 
> How would she like it if you had an affair?


:iagree: Exactly if it were the other way around what would she do?


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## bryanp

What I find especially disturbing aside from her affair is the way you have tolerated her piercing humiliation in front of you and I am guessing your child also. If your child heard her say that she never wanted any of this and she just wanted to go live alone with a dog; then I think your child would be devastated and this would have long term effects on your child.

My guess is that this emotional humiliating criticism of you will lead to her doing the same thing to the child. In addition, if the child hears how she abuses and humiliates you; the child will think that is normal behavior. A good mother would never do this. I think you need to step back and see how your wife acts toward you will have a very detrimental effect on your child, your self-esteem and your relationship. Nobody should be fearful of their spouse inflicting emotional abuse. I am afraid that you are really in a type of fog yourself. Why would you wish to continue to love a woman who emotional abuses and humiliates you? What is wrong with this picture. I wish you luck.


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## ThreeStrikes

Yankee,

Since you want to attempt R, the first step is killing the affair.

The best way to kill the affair is exposure.

Start by telling OW's husband. Then tell her parents, her close friends, your family, etc.

Affairs thrive in secrecy and darkness. They die when they are exposed to the light of reality.

Once you expose, your WW will go nuclear on you. It's ok, just weather the storm. I recommend keeping a VAR on you (or your phone) to record her. She might do something stupid like accuse you of domestic abuse, and you need to protect yourself.

After things settle, if she starts to show genuine remorse for her affair (not for getting caught), then she needs to do the heavy lifting to save your marriage. This includes:

1.) Writing a no-contact letter to OW. No contact, ever again.

2.) Quitting her job and finding a new one.

3.) Complete transparency. No passcoding her phone or FB.

4.) Marriage counseling for both of you.

If she does not show remorse, then file for divorce.

Your WW is a lying, cheating, entitled shrew. She gets her act together, or she can be single.


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## Yankee99

Great advice, thanks folks.

Yes, I am in a fog. I admit I am deathly afraid of being alone and afraid of losing contact with my child.

I was a bachelor into my early 30s (now 40) and it did start to get lonely. But yes, it seems maybe I am kidding myself. I just know all of the stats about broken homes etc. My child is my life.

We have a big trip coming up end of December that has been planned for months. Wife now says (via email) no matter what, can't ruin trip for child. She now also says she doesn't want counseling after all (even to just ask for divorce) she said wait until January and reassess. No way in hell I am going to sit around for 2 months while she cheats because she thinks she can hold our family trip hostage.

I just checked and in my state the filing process takes 90+ days. I found an attorney supposedly specializing in helping men.


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## Yankee99

Can anyone recommend a good VAR? I will have one overnighted.

Yes, thought about phony accusations, especially in my state.

Any idea if phone records can be subpoenad in divorce hearing? I'm sure the text records would be an open and shut case for me.


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## Acabado

Exposure to BH, no matter what.
Lawyer, finances. ASAP
Reading and implementing the 180.
If by chance she snap out of her own fog be ready to lay the law if she wants you to stop the D.

ETA
To find out a good VAR an how to use them really well search for a member named weightlifter, follow his posts (from his profile) and you will get very soon good advice into it.


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## ThreeStrikes

Yankee99 said:


> Can anyone recommend a good VAR? I will have one overnighted.
> 
> Yes, thought about phony accusations, especially in my state.
> 
> Any idea if phone records can be subpoenad in divorce hearing? I'm sure the text records would be an open and shut case for me.


You can get a cheap VAR at Best Buy or Radioshack. Most electronic stores carry them.

Most states are no-fault when it comes to D. Infidelity doesn't matter. But you definitely need to protect yourself from false abuse accusations.

I like your stance on the vacation trip. 

Your cheater-wife's refusal to go to counseling pretty much sums it up. She's entitled, and she's guilting you about how cancelling the trip will affect the child.

NEWSFLASH!: Did she consider her child while she was having her affair?

This is all on her.

Stay strong. Remember to eat. Try your best to get some sleep. Start exercising, if you're not already.

Like Acabado said, it's time to implement the 180. The goal of the 180 is to help you detach from your toxic wife. It is not to win her back. It is for* you*.


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## MattMatt

Do *NOT* listen to the VAR yourself. What some posters have heard has seriously devastated them.

How many other marriages has this woman destroyed?

Out them on CheaterVille :: Don't Be the Last to Know

And I lost my first long term girl friend to another woman, so know a tiny bit of what you are going through, though we had no children. She had three from her previous marriage.


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## ThreeStrikes

He needs to keep a VAR on himself, especially after exposure.

My ex went ballistic on me. Thankfully I recorded the whole thing. 

If she goes nuts, it's possible she could call the cops and accuse him of Domestic Abuse.


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## sandc

Yankee99 said:


> Whoa, stings a little when reality slaps you in the face, but thanks because I think I needed it. I am still willing to reconcile, yes at a minimum there had to be kissing I think you are right. I do want to reconcile for the sake of our child, I think the next several days will be very telling.
> 
> You struck a nerve with the temper because that is something I have been dealing with for a long time. My wife when angry can be extremely hurtful and will try to say whatever she can to make you feel bad about yourself. I can't even express how skillful she is at doing this.
> 
> Man, this reality is coming down heavy on me. It is hard to imagine not living with my child, I am terrified she will turn him against me without me there every day. She has never questioned my parenting.
> 
> If I do end up having to expose this (assuming they continue) I feel like I would need some real evidence. Any suggestions.
> 
> This kind of sucks, but the reason I am here is for objectivity. Thanks


Why should you have to give up your child? I mean, she never asked for this, she wanted to live alone with a dog, right?

Tell her you are giving her that chance. She and that dog can go park in that lot for as long as they want when she's gone.


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## sandc

Oh, and it doesn't really matter if you want to R. What matters is if your wife wants to R. She signals her readiness to R by quitting her job and finding another (please don't tell me your a stay-at-home dad), going full no contact with this other woman, informing the OW's husband, oh, and you get to approve all the communications she sends out. That's how you get to R.

But don't make up your mind too quickly. You and your child may be better off with someone who isn't quite so quick to anger.


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## Acabado

Found out weightlifter's advice on VARs ---> Here (post 15) 

ANd given she has this temper and possess this delusional sense of entitlement I agree you also should carry a VAR on you, just in case she comes up with awful fake chargues to force your out the house. Protect yourself must be your mantra from now on.


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## Yankee99

Acabado said:


> Found out weightlifter's advice on VARs ---> Here (post 15)
> 
> ANd given she has this temper and possess this delusional sense of entitlement I agree you also should carry a VAR on you, just in case she comes up with awful fake chargues to force your out the house. Protect yourself must be your mantra from now on.


Awesome, exactly what I needed. Thanks! Seems like the plan now is to get all my ducks in a row and see what happens.

She thinks I would NEVER divorce her. But I know what remorse looks like and I ain't seen it. She may not have cheated before, but if I "let it slide" I know I am only setting myself up for future heartbreak. Also I believe quick action is the way to go, lawyer up first, be decisive, etc.

I will need to quell any desire for confrontation if I uncover more, and hold it until everything else is lined up (lawyer, VAR, email addresses of contacts etc)

Again, still hoping she will have an epiphany, in which case I agree about enforcing NC - but she still doesn't seem to me like she thinks she has done anything wrong.

However it works out, I will keep you all updated. Thanks all for the great advice and support. It is still very difficult, but the support here is really helping me.


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## 6301

Yankee99 said:


> Oh, and I am a psycho control freak, she won't live in this "prison" with me anymore and she will go to counseling only as a means to find out how to proceed in the divorce process. This all happened last (sunday) night. Now today she is still extremely angry and not at all remoresful (through emails, of which I have tried to take the high road and not be angry)
> 
> She's doing everything in her power to hurl the blame on you. Your a control freak and now she wants a divorce and now all pissed off at you.
> 
> She starts throwing hissy fits at you, look the woman in the eye and tell her that she started this mess and if she doesn't stop and now, you'll be happy to finish it and she can go find her own place with a dog and the 50 year old woman.
> 
> DO NOT LET HER WIGGLE HER WAY OUT OF THIS! make sure you have her ass boxed in and how you do it is by informing everyone. Friends, family, co workers and any one else who will listen. She has not only thrown you to the wolves but you kid also. It's one thing to go toe to toe with you but when she makes the claim that she never wanted none of this even in anger, she's telling you that even her child is going to come in second place.
> 
> If you want to keep this marriage then you better remember that it's two in the marriage not three. But if it was me, with her attitude and temper, you and your kid might be the one better off with a dog.


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## happyman64

Yankee99 said:


> Awesome, exactly what I needed. Thanks! Seems like the plan now is to get all my ducks in a row and see what happens.
> 
> She thinks I would NEVER divorce her. But I know what remorse looks like and I ain't seen it. She may not have cheated before, but if I "let it slide" I know I am only setting myself up for future heartbreak. Also I believe quick action is the way to go, lawyer up first, be decisive, etc.
> 
> I will need to quell any desire for confrontation if I uncover more, and hold it until everything else is lined up (lawyer, VAR, email addresses of contacts etc)
> 
> Again, still hoping she will have an epiphany, in which case I agree about enforcing NC - but she still doesn't seem to me like she thinks she has done anything wrong.
> 
> However it works out, I will keep you all updated. Thanks all for the great advice and support. It is still very difficult, but the support here is really helping me.



Yankee

STay firm with yourself. You know your wife is cake eating so let her.

Get the VAR. Get your evidence then nuke the Affair.

You will have your wifes attention then. ANd she has a bad temper? Then when she comes to you in a rage when her GF gets nuked hand her the D papers.

Even if you do not not want to get divorced hand them to her.

Tell her you want nothing to do with her infidelity.

Hand her a packed bag and tell her to leave.

Then she will realize who is in control.

And if you see no remorse from her you are already two steps ahead.

HM


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## Chaparral

Be prepared for the worse and do the 180. I can't remember any couples that have survived the lesbian affair thing on this forum. IF she is telling the truth about he OW not wanting her family to know, you might be a first.

Good luck, if you have to start negotiating tell her you will ask for full custody of your boy on fitness grounds but you will buy her a hound dog at the nearest shelter.


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## Yankee99

Hey all, quick update. Was doing the 180, thought it was working, cheating b***h kept trying to contact me. 

I thought tonight would be a good night to go visit with one of my buddies and get some takeout. Multiple texts basically asking where I was, all went ignored. Maybe she is getting a taste of her own medicine I thought.

Got back when she would normally be in bed, she was actually waiting up for me, demanding to know where I was. I said start telling the truth and I will do the same. Cheating b***h went apoplectic, demanding to know where I was.

Finally, "tell me where you over at OWs house?" The hell I thought, weird question. I refused to answer, I said she needs to call in sick on Friday so we can go to a counselor she has one shot to tell the truth (only so I can lay things out without her going completely ape) I have a pretty good amount of evidence (will get into it later) but would like to get more in the next couple of days if I can.

Cheating b***h was only concerned that I was exposing her, which is why she wants to know so desparatley where I was. I could have been out with 40 thai hookers and I don't think she would have cared as long as I wasn't exposing her.

I think the maybe she couldn't text the older cheating b***h to find out if I was there? weird, in any case I am pretty sure the OW will get bored of my wifes antics in a few months. As for me, barring some kind of divine intervention, I don't see how this is salvageable. 

I gave her warning I was uncomfortable, she continued. I busted her and forced her to admit she was in love and... "we are still friends and I will not stop seeing her" yeah ok. Disrespect me and insult my intelligence at the same time.

Dealing with betrayal is bad enough. A normal person will feel shame and remorse if caught in such despicable behavior. Her only thoughts are "what do I need to do to continue in relationship with OW" it is all SOOOOO transparent.

Right now the anger is masking some of the hurt I know will come, but this was not my doing. she can try to blame me all she wants, but she was given multiple chances to acknowledge her deceit and show remorse and she refused them all. A broken home sucks, it really does. But I was dealing with the anger outbursts and emotional abuse and tolerating it for the sake of the family, but the blatant, BLATANT infidelity to the point of not caring about me or my child, is just too far.

Hope to have an update soon, thanks again for the support.


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## sandc

You're doing good, Yankee. Hang in there.


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## Yankee99

It is hard to wait, I need a couple more days for the exposure to work best. I kind of lost it once I got home and hope I didn't tip my hand.

"I can't help how I feel" Oh no? Can you also not control your actions, or are they being driven by some unknown force?

For just a second tonight, I thought she was concerned about me, wondering if I was falling off a bar stool somewhere or with another woman. In the end she was only concerned that I was exposing her "precious"


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## tom67

Yankee99 said:


> It is hard to wait, I need a couple more days for the exposure to work best. I kind of lost it once I got home and hope I didn't tip my hand.
> 
> "I can't help how I feel" Oh no? Can you also not control your actions, or are they being driven by some unknown force?
> 
> For just a second tonight, I thought she was concerned about me, wondering if I was falling off a bar stool somewhere or with another woman. In the end she was only concerned that I was exposing her "precious"


Start exposing tomorrow
Why would she care she is in love.
Then grab the popcorn!:smthumbup:


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## sandc

You can't sleep anyway, so tell us what's going on. Do you have something new or was it just her reaction to your 180 and going out?


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## tom67

sandc said:


> You can't sleep anyway, so tell us what's going on. Do you have something new or was it just her reaction to your 180 and going out?


Next time just say I was out it's none of your business.

You fired me remember?


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## Yankee99

sandc said:


> You can't sleep anyway, so tell us what's going on. Do you have something new or was it just her reaction to your 180 and going out?


I completely lost it when she said she felt sick about not knowing where I was. Really? I have barely slept in the last 4 or 5 nights and you feel sick because you think you may walk into work tomorrow and have people look at you and know what a worthless piece of trash you are?

The saddest thing for me right now is there is not one iota of concern for me, she is all consumed in this relationship. I busted her and she has refused to stop. What does she expect me to do?


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## sandc

Show her what you can do.


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## Chaparral

You can expose and move on one way or the other or you can stay in limbo indefinitely.

Good hunting.


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## Chaparral

You can expose and move on one way or the other or you can stay in limbo indefinitely.

Good hunting.


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## ThreeStrikes

Yankee99 said:


> I completely lost it when she said she felt sick about not knowing where I was. Really? I have barely slept in the last 4 or 5 nights and you feel sick because you think you may walk into work tomorrow and have people look at you and know what a worthless piece of trash you are?
> 
> The saddest thing for me right now is there is not one iota of concern for me, she is all consumed in this relationship. I busted her and she has refused to stop. What does she expect me to do?


That's the thing with disordered cheaters. Everything is about *them*.

The frequent anger outbursts, pathological lying, infidelity, ability to compartmentalize, sexual identity issues, etc really seem to point to a Cluster B personality disorder.

You aren't going to fix this. She's broken. Sorry...she sounds a lot like my ex.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

Saying that you wanted to be single with a dog = good mother?
Something is unbalanced about this equation.


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## Pault

Just read through this. Ouch!
The blame shift is huge and your doing well to take the blows my friend. You are right in your assumption about her paranoia regarding where you are, who your with and what you are doing. It might be that this 180 is starting to work. The secretive you is really upsetting her apple cart. She is starting NOT to be able to plan, work out where you could pop up and what your planning. In the past she has to a degree been the controller. That has shifted and because she has cheated she is envisaging you doing similar. 

The threat to disclose MUST be kept real. Its the only weapon you have at this time. By keeping her unbalanced she is starting to play her own mind movies about what your likely to do next.

Keep your planning to yourself. Play the game she dislikes and this will continue to force her hand. You dont need to be "unfaithfull", but you do need to be careful. 

Going dark clearly is hyping her up to the max. Keep an alibi that can be checked if need. That way there can be no counter claims etc. Plus, it will allow you to focus not on the hurt as such but on the retribution. This will keep you focused and more in control. Remember "Knowledge is power". 

I certainly feel that exposure is required. This is at a time and place you decide but be aware that the other parties H needs the heads up first and then swiftly move across the cheats network. That way all eyes will be in their direction and they will have issues to deal with thus lowering their defenses.

If you can record some of the clains your W made then fine it will look really good when you transcribe this and send it to the otehr parties H. That along with a statement of "Sorry to tell you but!" will hit home. Sadly the other guy may well be really hurt by this, but, no more than you!

I wish you well here on in. Keep in touch and Im sure that guys will rally around you here to support as best it can be done on a forum.


----------



## 86857

> I was dealing with the anger outbursts and emotional abuse and tolerating it for the sake of the family, but the blatant, BLATANT infidelity to the point of not caring about me or my child, is just too far.


Your marriage was no walk in the park before this. Maybe it's all for the best that this has happened because that is NO way for you or your little boy to live. It sounds as if she was a she-devil ruling your home with the two of you walking on eggshells around her.



> Now my wife can be very very short tempered. When my son or I upset her, even over something trivial, she will say* "I never wanted any of this, I wanted to live by myself with a dog".*


I winced when I read this and I imagined your innocent little 5 year old cowering on the sidelines. Did your son hear this? Does he witness her outbursts? Does she get angry with him when you are not there? 
You need to VAR your home to check that. Buy a couple more.
It could have a serious psychological effect on him. 

If she says these things in front of him or doesn't manage her anger she is an unfit mother and I would go for full custody on those grounds. As you said your son is your life. She needs anger management counselling either way. 

I'm sure I'm repeating what others have said but because of her anger issue, keep a VAR or phone on you at all times through this.


----------



## nogutsnoglory

Yankee99 said:


> It is hard to wait, I need a couple more days for the exposure to work best. I kind of lost it once I got home and hope I didn't tip my hand.
> 
> "I can't help how I feel" Oh no? Can you also not control your actions, or are they being driven by some unknown force?
> 
> For just a second tonight, I thought she was concerned about me, wondering if I was falling off a bar stool somewhere or with another woman. In the end she was only concerned that I was exposing her "precious"


You have no choice but to blow this up and expose it to her work, family, friends, OWH, everyone. You also need to file for D and let her realize she has lost everything. The OW will go away, that is not a real threat IMO but who cares, your wife is a selfish bit** and needs to be treated as such to realize her actions have real consequences. You need to rid yourself of her to begin to heal. She will not be changing anytime soon, if at all.


----------



## InlandTXMM

Yankee I like where your mind is during this mess. Yes, divorce sucks, but a life of hell for you and your son is far worse.

Healthy people will not stay with dysfunctional ones for very long.

I agree with the others now - blow up the affair with exposure. Bring this fantasy lesbian thing crashing down. It's one thing for her to get the sizzle of some secret taboo sexual fantasy. It's quite another to have friends and family know you're cheating on your husband and child with another woman. She desperately doesn't want the fantasy to end.

(And just as an aside, gentlemen, we all have the fantasy of having our wives be sexually into women, even if just a little. Don't make the fantasy a reality. In a lot of cases, this kind of crap is the result. Be careful what you wish for. You may get it.)


----------



## Chaparral

I'm afraid op is going to wait around until its too late. The trash heap of reluctant husbands being nice, around here could fill the super dome.


----------



## InlandTXMM

Chaparral said:


> I'm afraid op is going to wait around until its too late. The trash heap of reluctant husbands being nice, around here could fill the super dome.


So true. My first instinct during the shock and panic was to think I could "love" her back. 

Thank God my self respect wasn't more than a week behind my Nice Guy panic.

Cheaters are ALWAYS to blame for their infidelity. Cheating is a boundary and ego problem, not a marital problem.


----------



## Vorlon

InlandTXMM said:


> Yankee I like where your mind is during this mess. Yes, divorce sucks, but a life of hell for you and your son is far worse.
> 
> Healthy people will not stay with dysfunctional ones for very long.
> 
> I agree with the others now - blow up the affair with exposure. Bring this fantasy lesbian thing crashing down. It's one thing for her to get the sizzle of some secret taboo sexual fantasy. It's quite another to have friends and family know you're cheating on your husband and child with another woman. She desperately doesn't want the fantasy to end.
> 
> (And just as an aside, gentlemen, we all have the fantasy of having our wives be sexually into women, even if just a little. Don't make the fantasy a reality. In a lot of cases, this kind of crap is the result. Be careful what you wish for. You may get it.)


I agree with you on the "Be careful what you wish for".. statement. Its very true. 

But I strongly disagree that ALL men have the fantasy of having their wives at least a little into other women. I'll grant you that many may have it, but I for one do not nor have I ever had that fantasy or the other often quoted one about see their wives with other men. They are both an equally horrible betrayal to me. I do not share in reality or fantasy. Maybe I'm the odd one out on this but that's who I am and how I feel.


----------



## Pault

I believe that OP IS hanging on in there but hes there because of his feelings and his young family. When a W goes walk about and is involved to what appears to be boarder PA or having indulged then they become a completely differing personality. All the past communication seems to be corrupted, they are fogged to heck and cannot see that what they are involved in a as bad as a nuclear war. Sadly the fall out will affect the child as well as the H. Children in a case like this cannot understand the sexual chemistry that is going on and why "mummy" is with another woman. 

For the H in this its a smack to the solar plexus in a big way.
Trying to get to the bottom of a mountain of lies, trying to make sense of the complete rubbish they are being told and then becoming the mother and father in the house to try and "keep things normal" is initself a massive task. 

I just hope Yankee takes some of the suggestion posted here on board, seeks legal support, protects he and his child and then blows the cover of the 2 women so that others in the look who are unaware can heap pressure in that direction. This is of course especially important for the other woman as her H probably has no real indication another woman is replacing him and both parties employer will really feel uncomfortable about "the good name of the company" being dragged kicking andn screaming through a mound of scandal.


----------



## Yankee99

Hello all,

It has been a trying few days for sure. The affair has been exposed, I will get into more details later.

Before I posted here, I stupidly sent my wife a link to a (what I thought was inspirational) post. I don't think she cares enough or even remembers what forum it was, but there are a few things that I don't want to mention just yet in the event she stumbles across this thread.

TO ALL SPOUSES IN MY SITUATION:
When I first read the advice here, I thought it was ridiculously harsh. Some things, like the 180 can be difficult to implement depending on your temperament. But I can tell you exposing the affair as soon as possible is absolutely critical. The posters here are 100% correct on this, and the sooner the better.

OW has been sent running for the hills, she didn't want any part of this.

Like you have gathered from the posts, our marriage wasn't strong to begin with. Had it been, this might have been easier to overcome.

I have been firm in my willingness to move on, but lately wife has tried to begin emotional manipulation. Like waking me up in the morning by coming upstairs to the guest bedroom where I have been sleeping and telling me she misses me and is sorry. The night before she wanted to move straight from talking about D to how custody is going to work (what days who lives where etc). Then later the same day she was back to talking about custody again. So in 36 hours I had hate, a glimmer of remorse (the sincerity of which I doubt) back to hate again. 

I admit I wavered when she offered the bit of remorse, I even got to the point of telling her what I would need to move past this ie counselling and other changes. I think the only reason she did this was so that she could gain the upper hand again. 

Like I said, I will try to keep all updated. I need to focus on my work and health, they have been seriously neglected in the last week.

Thanks for the support. I appreciate the advice, but please don't denigrate my actions or my failure to act more decisively, I am doing the best I can.


----------



## TheFlood117

Was the affair physical? 

Are you going for Divorce, or are you going to reconcile?


----------



## Pault

Well done Yankee!

The major part is nearly over. Your stregth wil gain as you find truth and see that decision you make are right. The OW is hiding and I feel that her family will start to turn the screws when the truth drifts out.

There will be many discussions with your w which will make your feelsing bounce around. But, by staying sharpe and concentrating you will take the right path

The guys are here when you need a shoulder to lean on Im sure


----------



## InlandTXMM

Yankee, I think you are doing great so far.

The affair might be over now but the fog for your wife remains. She will go through withdrawal from the dopamine hits her brain got used to during the affair. She very much is addicted to the OW at the moment, and like any druggie, the path to sobriety is a painful one.

Expect your wife to be all over the place emotionally - yes she wants you, but you also spoiled her fun, etc. etc. etc. You must now be that sturdy tree in her emotional storm that does not budge.

The one critical element for any addict coming clean, though, is 100% cold-turkey elimination of the source of their addiction. The OW must be completely gone and that is why NO CONTACT is so vigorously pushed here. Your wife cannot go back for a fix, though she will want to in the next few days, weeks, even months.

(That's also why R is sometimes too much to handle - the WW got a taste of the nasty, and sadly, some never get over it and want that feeling again.)

Great job - please let us know what happened, and ask a Mod to move this to the Private section if you are worried about your wife finding the thread.


----------



## InlandTXMM

TheFlood117 said:


> Was the affair physical?
> 
> Are you going for Divorce, or are you going to reconcile?


Probably way too early for him to decide that.

Nearly every BS, I believe, at first panics and wants to save it, then they get furious and want it over. Let him ride our familiar roller coaster a while and see where he is a few weeks from now.


----------



## Yankee99

TheFlood117 said:


> Was the affair physical?
> 
> Are you going for Divorce, or are you going to reconcile?


I don't believe the affair was physical, although a doubt will always remain. 

In terms of divorce or reconcile -the rational side of me knows 100% that I should go for divorce. But there is still that part of me that tells me to sacrifice for my family. How can I balance my need to be loved and respected vs uprooting my family? Maybe this is a false choice, but it is going through my mind.

As it stands now, wife has basically said she is not willing to do anything to make the relationship better.

We had a long ago scheduled lunch date for Sunday, which I am guessing she will cancel at some point. I was hoping to have a conversation in a public place where emotions can be kept in check.


----------



## 6301

InlandTXMM said:


> (And just as an aside, gentlemen, we all have the fantasy of having our wives be sexually into women, even if just a little. Don't make the fantasy a reality. In a lot of cases, this kind of crap is the result. Be careful what you wish for. You may get it.)


 I never had the fantasy of seeing my wife with another woman. Anyone going to be in bed with her was going to be me. 

Being with another woman sexually is still cheating and cheating to me is a deal breaker.


----------



## InlandTXMM

6301 said:


> I never had the fantasy of seeing my wife with another woman. Anyone going to be in bed with her was going to be me.
> 
> Being with another woman sexually is still cheating and cheating to me is a deal breaker.


I know - and I also would never be okay with sharing what's mine.
But come on, guys, who's kidding who: nearly every man thinks about two women together, at least in the abstract. 

My warning was about taking a porn movie fantasy and letting it loose in your own family.


----------



## InlandTXMM

Yankee99 said:


> I don't believe the affair was physical, although a doubt will always remain.
> 
> In terms of divorce or reconcile -the rational side of me knows 100% that I should go for divorce. But there is still that part of me that tells me to sacrifice for my family. How can I balance my need to be loved and respected vs uprooting my family? Maybe this is a false choice, but it is going through my mind.
> 
> As it stands now, wife has basically said she is not willing to do anything to make the relationship better.
> 
> We had a long ago scheduled lunch date for Sunday, which I am guessing she will cancel at some point. I was hoping to have a conversation in a public place where emotions can be kept in check.


Reconciliation is only possible with real remorse on her part, and a willingness on her part to do whatever is going to be necessary for you to recover from the betrayal. It will mean a significant loss of privacy for her - you will need to know where she is and who she's with, who she's texting and messaging, etc. She will have to be eager to hand over her phone and passwords for you to check up on at a moment's notice. It will mean new boundaries of what is and is not acceptable behavior and who are acceptable friends.

You will trigger in the future at odd times and over odd things - she must be prepared to calmly and lovingly walk you through that.

You possibly cannot reconcile, or really even contemplate it, if you do not have a wife basically begging to do the heavy work now of restoring your trust and faith in her.


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## missthelove2013

The fantasy:
The two women pleasure themselves and you, love it, and then everyone returns to their lives until its time for another round

The Reality:
The two women quickly realize they have no need for the third wheel and your dumped, they stay together

as far as affairs go, forget the fantasy and realize there is NO difference between the wife cheating with another man or woman...its still cheating...

I know I am generalizing but I do know something about this...but many lesbian and bisexual women LOVE to turn a straight woman...I have gay friends and have heard them admit this like its a secret taboo thing, mostly when they were younger...this older woman is either bisexual or a lesbian with a beard/family and she is probably GONE now that youve exposed...keep snooping though

ANY CHANCE at R begins with your wife getting a new job, she cant work with this woman anymore...this woman has probably targeted straight women in the past and seduced them...

I would also bet a teste it went physical...maybe not full blown sex (oral, finger penetration) but they were most definitely passionate kissing and caressing each other...apparently, and again I know I am generalizing, it doesnt take much time to get the straight women comfortable enough for kissing...but it takes a LONG time to get them to the point where there is sexual stimulation


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## sandc

Yankee99 said:


> I don't believe the affair was physical, although a doubt will always remain.
> 
> In terms of divorce or reconcile -the rational side of me knows 100% that I should go for divorce. But there is still that part of me that tells me to sacrifice for my family. How can I balance my need to be loved and respected vs uprooting my family? Maybe this is a false choice, but it is going through my mind.
> 
> As it stands now, wife has basically said she is not willing to do anything to make the relationship better.
> 
> We had a long ago scheduled lunch date for Sunday, which I am guessing she will cancel at some point. I was hoping to have a conversation in a public place where emotions can be kept in check.


See a lawyer, file for D. You will be AMAZED at how her attitude changes once this goes from theoretical to reality. It's okay for her to know you love her but you don't need her. You can move on just fine without her. That's usually like a 2x4 to the head for a WS. They never consider that YOU could find someone else. Tell her that as of now you are going to D. But if you see sufficient progress on her part, you MAY consider not finalizing the D. Let her know the ball is in her court. There is no need to rush to any decision. It's your life.


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## hereinthemidwest

Yankee99 take a deep breath and step back. Your wife may of always been a lesbian. I was dating a guy who's ex wife left him for women. Through out their 18 YEAR marriage she had 3 PA and 2 EA. Maybe your fighting a battle that you should walk away from. 
Somethings in life can't be explained. Don't waste 18 years of your life. Hugs the sun will shine again.


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## TheFlood117

So you don't know if it was physical eh? 

I'd say perhaps a polygraph. Or just serve her D-papers and get on with it. 

Whatever you decide, stay strong and stay the course. 

Good luck.


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## 6301

Yankee99 said:


> I don't believe the affair was physical, although a doubt will always remain.
> 
> In terms of divorce or reconcile -the rational side of me knows 100% that I should go for divorce. But there is still that part of me that tells me to sacrifice for my family. How can I balance my need to be loved and respected vs uprooting my family? Maybe this is a false choice, but it is going through my mind.
> 
> As it stands now, wife has basically said she is not willing to do anything to make the relationship better.
> 
> We had a long ago scheduled lunch date for Sunday, which I am guessing she will cancel at some point. I was hoping to have a conversation in a public place where emotions can be kept in check.


 Your not doing anything that is sacrificing your family. Don't you understand that SHE IS! 

If she's not willing to take any steps to make the relationship better, the you have to understand that it take two to want it and if your the only one that does, it ain't happening.

Screw the lunch with her. If anything have lunch with your lawyer and let him handle the mess. The time for conversations are over. She's already told you what she wants and you are not listening. 

I know you have kids and speaking from experience, kids survive divorce as long as at least one parent is going to stand up and be there for the kids. That has to be you because your wife is thinking about something other then her family. Time to take the bull by the horns friend.


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## Will_Kane

Your wife sounds demonic.

That temper.

The unwillingness to compromise.

The unwillingness to consider your point of view.

Has this always been her M.O.?


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## Chaparral

Workout, see your MD, investigate, put the ow on cheaterville.com, google her too, never cry/lose it in front of your wife. Don't show any emotion to her, be like an executioner. Do not let her think you are anything but strong and more than willing to trade for a newer model if she can't get her act together.

Google free online version of NO MORE MISTER NICE GUY. Most importantly read the book about how to attract a nd keep a wife. MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER, something men forget during marriage.


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## Yankee99

6301 said:


> Your not doing anything that is sacrificing your family. Don't you understand that SHE IS!
> 
> If she's not willing to take any steps to make the relationship better, the you have to understand that it take two to want it and if your the only one that does, it ain't happening.
> 
> Screw the lunch with her. If anything have lunch with your lawyer and let him handle the mess. The time for conversations are over. She's already told you what she wants and you are not listening.
> 
> I know you have kids and speaking from experience, kids survive divorce as long as at least one parent is going to stand up and be there for the kids. That has to be you because your wife is thinking about something other then her family. Time to take the bull by the horns friend.


Why is it that what you are telling me makes PERFECT sense, but I am afraid to act on it? 

So a little more background, we have been married for 7 years, prior to that she had ONE long term relationship of about a year when she was 19 or 20 (the love of her life as she never tires of telling me) Every other relationship had gone a few months and then fizzled. so when I met her, all was great for 3 months, then I saw a totally new personality. If only I had a time machine. I dealt with her threats to leave, her temper and volatile personality again and again. Then she needed to change her living arrangement so "hey, lets move in" Then it was "hey we shouldn't live in sin" I guess at that point I didn't want to be alone and the rest is history.

So much I could start talking about, you all could be billing me by the hour. Where is my strength when I need it? You are right, SHE has burned this family down. A little, ANY modicum of effort on her part probably would have had me looking to forgive and move on, but its not happening.


----------



## Yankee99

Will_Kane said:


> Your wife sounds demonic.
> 
> That temper.
> 
> The unwillingness to compromise.
> 
> The unwillingness to consider your point of view.
> 
> Has this always been her M.O.?


For the most part, yes. We are both strong willed, but I am very even tempered. So any thing where I don't agree blows up into a hate filled tirade on her part.

She also says I am controlling, she cites as a recent example me yelling at her to come home when she was still at work around 10:30. At the time, I was merely concerned for her safety and she took it as a sign of controlling.


----------



## nogutsnoglory

Yankee99 said:


> Why is it that what you are telling me makes PERFECT sense, but I am afraid to act on it?
> 
> So a little more background, we have been married for 7 years, prior to that she had ONE long term relationship of about a year when she was 19 or 20 (the love of her life as she never tires of telling me) Every other relationship had gone a few months and then fizzled. so when I met her, all was great for 3 months, then I saw a totally new personality. If only I had a time machine. I dealt with her threats to leave, her temper and volatile personality again and again. Then she needed to change her living arrangement so "hey, lets move in" Then it was "hey we shouldn't live in sin" I guess at that point I didn't want to be alone and the rest is history.
> 
> So much I could start talking about, you all could be billing me by the hour. Where is my strength when I need it? You are right, SHE has burned this family down. A little, ANY modicum of effort on her part probably would have had me looking to forgive and move on, but its not happening.


kind of sounds like you were a plan B from the start. "lover of her life" being gone and all. Can't believe you married someone that refers to a past lover as the love of her life. 
She sounds pretty bad man. Certainly not someone that you would continue to work on being with if you have any self respect.
Get it over with as fast as possible is my recommendation.


----------



## tom67

nogutsnoglory said:


> kind of sounds like you were a plan B from the start. "lover of her life" being gone and all. Can't believe you married someone that refers to a past lover as the love of her life.
> She sounds pretty bad man. Certainly not someone that you would continue to work on being with if you have any self respect.
> Get it over with as fast as possible is my recommendation.


Yankee read theFlood's thread.
This is how you breakup.


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## Yankee99

tom67 said:


> Yankee read theFlood's thread.
> This is how you breakup.


Which one?


----------



## tom67

Here

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/125921-update.html


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## ThreeStrikes

Yankee,

From what you describe, your WW exhibits several Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) traits.

This is why, after 3 months, she suddenly developed a new persona.

I spent 15 years with my BPD ex. Three affairs (that I know of), and erratic behavior similar to your WW. You can't fix this.

Here's a link to an article that may help.

More Thoughts on FOG, Hoovers and No Contact When Ending a Relationship with a Narcissist, Borderline, Histrionic and/or Sociopath | Shrink4Men

Shrink4Men is a good resource. Also BPDfamily.

Advice: Don't accuse your WW of being BPD. BPDers don't take any sort of criticism well (as I'm sure you've discovered). BPDers almost never seek help, because they don't think there is anything wrong with them.

Get counseling for yourself, and begin the D process. I'm telling you, the world you've been living in with her* is not normal*. And you won't realize how abnormal it is until you free yourself from her....which will be a whole story unto itself.

There are also some posts in the Physical and Mental Health subforums about BPD. Read, and see if you can relate.


----------



## Chaparral

Something else you need to read...........google free version NO MOE MISTER NICE GUY. You can read it online and you will quickly see if it pertains to you.

Also get the two books linked to below in my signature. Amazon links but they are available elsewhere.

You definitely need to read mmslp.


----------



## Yankee99

ThreeStrikes said:


> Yankee,
> 
> From what you describe, your WW exhibits several Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) traits.
> 
> This is why, after 3 months, she suddenly developed a new persona.
> 
> I spent 15 years with my BPD ex. Three affairs (that I know of), and erratic behavior similar to your WW. You can't fix this.
> 
> Here's a link to an article that may help.
> 
> More Thoughts on FOG, Hoovers and No Contact When Ending a Relationship with a Narcissist, Borderline, Histrionic and/or Sociopath | Shrink4Men
> 
> Shrink4Men is a good resource. Also BPDfamily.
> 
> Advice: Don't accuse your WW of being BPD. BPDers don't take any sort of criticism well (as I'm sure you've discovered). BPDers almost never seek help, because they don't think there is anything wrong with them.
> 
> Get counseling for yourself, and begin the D process. I'm telling you, the world you've been living in with her* is not normal*. And you won't realize how abnormal it is until you free yourself from her....which will be a whole story unto itself.
> 
> There are also some posts in the Physical and Mental Health subforums about BPD. Read, and see if you can relate.


Yeah, BPD for sure I remember researching that a few years ago. Thanks for the resources


----------



## Yankee99

Another thing I am getting hung up on is I feel ashamed to tell people. To be honest, I don't think family and friends will be all that surprised, having other people around hasn't been a deterrent to her frequent blow ups on me. Its more my colleagues and bosses.

The majority of people I work with are off-site ie my boss and co-workers mostly work out of other locations. Did you guys tell your bosses when you were going through this? 

Its an awkward conversation but I already can tell I have been dropping the ball work wise the last week. And I know it will come up eventually "Did you and your family have a good holiday?" etc.


----------



## azteca1986

Yankee99, you should tell your immediate boss. Let them know you are having marital problems and that it looks terminal. You needn't give details. They'll cut you some slack.


----------



## 6301

Yankee99 said:


> Why is it that what you are telling me makes PERFECT sense, but I am afraid to act on it?
> QUOTE]
> 
> Because if you look in the mirror, you'll see that your still wearing the "good guy hat" and she took hers off.
> 
> Basically, you don't understand that she isn't your friend anymore. She doesn't consider you a friend and she shoed you right away by changing the locks and to me that is a symbol of just locking you out of her life. Your nothing but someone in her past while your still looking at her like she's still your partner and with you in the present.
> 
> Until you start realizing that she is moving on and will do so by any means including taking you to the cleaners your going to lose.
> 
> You need to level the playing field and let her know that everything is not going to go her way without a fight.
> 
> It's time to change hats and start playing the part of the heel and defend your ground. So far you have given up a lot of territory and it's time you reclaim it. If not, things will get a whole lot worse. Stop looking at her as your wife but as a stranger trying to take advantage of you.


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## Chaparral

sounds like you need to be carrying a var with you whenever you are a round her. This has saved many men from the cops.


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## Remains

Yankee, like you I thought the advice given here was very harsh....like a bit 'totally out there' harsh. That is because we are programmed to think certain things. About our freedoms, about sex, about the opposite sex, about friends of the opposite sex, and of course same sex relationships....infidelity is just a 'normal' occurrence nowadays. It took some time for me to really see that these harsh words of advice were actually spot on, and were actually words of wisdom.

I was here for some time while I got what I needed from the site. I still wasn't fully on board, but a lot of it rang true. I then was fulfilled and felt no need to come here anymore. But...I wasn't getting what I needed from my man. So I came back. It was only some time after that, that I really was full on board with the basic theme of advice given here. And I agree fully. I wish I had found this site at the very beginning. Things would be very different. 

Believe what you are being told. Don't discount it. Follow it and you will avoid much pain and limbo. Limbo is just as bad as all the other crap you are experiencing...just more subtle. It slowly seeps away your soul.


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## Uptown

Yankee99 said:


> Yeah, BPD for sure I remember researching that a few years ago.


Yankee, the BPD resources that 3Strikes cites are excellent. I would only add that, if you are divorcing a BPDer, things will get nasty really quick because BPDers tend to be very vindictive. My BPDer exW, for example, had me arrested on a bogus charge and thrown into jail. It therefore would be prudent to read _Splitting: Protecting Yourself when Divorcing a Borderline or Narcissist_.


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## See_Listen_Love

Yankee99 said:


> *Why is it that what you are telling me makes PERFECT sense, but I am afraid to act on it?*
> Because you are a Nice Guy, and taken easily advantage off. That's what she did, and does.
> 
> So a little more background, we have been married for 7 years, prior to that she had ONE long term relationship of about a year when she was 19 or 20 (the love of her life *as she never tires of telling me*)
> - accepting this is a crucial error
> 
> Every other relationship had gone a few months and then fizzled. so when I met her, all was great for 3 months, *then I saw a totally new personality.
> *- and forgot to act
> 
> If only I had a time machine. I dealt with her threats to leave, her temper and volatile personality again and again. Then she needed to change her living arrangement so "hey, lets move in" Then it was "hey we shouldn't live in sin" I guess at that point *I didn't want to be alone*
> - And you sold your soul...
> 
> and the rest is history.
> 
> So much I could start talking about, you all could be billing me by the hour. Where is my strength when I need it? You are right, SHE has burned this family down. A little, ANY modicum of effort on her part probably would have had me looking to forgive and move on, but its not happening.


No More Mr Nice Guy

That your road to follow. Man up. You can do it, you are not hopeless!


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## Pault

All you need to do is give your "boss" some basic heads up on your issues. You dont need to say what your wife has done and with whom. Thats your business. But you can explain openly that there has been some difficulties at home which, whilst your trying to sort out taking their tll on you. Therefore youd appreaciate some understanding until you can get through this. Work for you will be a huge disraction for some of the day. It will allow you to clear your head a little and allow space to rethink stratagy. A good boss will allow some space and may be supprisingly supportive as youve put the needs of the business up there and have been bee n open. Dont be drawn into a full on gut wrenching explaination. - You can do that here with great anonimity.

Keep strong


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## Yankee99

Thanks again all for your advice.

As you have read, our relationship was not strong already so there wasn't a good base to withstand a shock like this. My heart goes out to those of you who were in good relationships (or at least thought so) and had the cheating and/or divorce bomb dropped on you unexpectedly.

So where we are now is that things were obviously very heated and emotions high. We agreed to take 6 weeks just to cool off and focus on our respective careers before we start talking about things like custody, etc. I don't think it would be good to discuss these things when emotions are so high. I am basically living upstairs in our guest bedroom, and it has actually been a bit of a relief to get some distance from her. Maybe not the textbook approach, but it is helping me right now.

I am trying my best to avoid her emotional roller-coaster. So far she has made sexual advances towards me (which is unusual for us lately) - not reconciliation sex but more some kind of taboo thing since it looks like we are headed towards divorce, then she will try to hug me and say "I do love you" and then an hour or two later she will be saying, "you need to start practicing some things for when you have our son by yourself" - all literally within hours of each other. I have not given a reaction to any of these things, no agreement/reciprocation or disagreement, just trying to stay calm and even keeled.

This is unusual behavior, even by my wife's standards. I am doing my best to ignore it all saying Lets put some distance between us so we can approach what is coming from a rational rather than a vindictive standpoint.

I have stopped all but basic communication, there are no overtures, I have also stopped arguing/disagreeing. Just trying to create some distance right now.

Like I said, if there were no children involved this would be easier. The urge to protect my child from a breakup is still there, but slowly starting to accept the seemingly inevitable.


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## Chaparral

Have you talked to the other womans husband? Is your wife still in contact with the ow?


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## nogutsnoglory

Yankee99 said:


> Thanks again all for your advice.
> 
> As you have read, our relationship was not strong already so there wasn't a good base to withstand a shock like this. My heart goes out to those of you who were in good relationships (or at least thought so) and had the cheating and/or divorce bomb dropped on you unexpectedly.
> 
> So where we are now is that things were obviously very heated and emotions high. We agreed to take 6 weeks just to cool off and focus on our respective careers before we start talking about things like custody, etc. I don't think it would be good to discuss these things when emotions are so high. I am basically living upstairs in our guest bedroom, and it has actually been a bit of a relief to get some distance from her. Maybe not the textbook approach, but it is helping me right now.
> 
> I am trying my best to avoid her emotional roller-coaster. So far she has made sexual advances towards me (which is unusual for us lately) - not reconciliation sex but more some kind of taboo thing since it looks like we are headed towards divorce, then she will try to hug me and say "I do love you" and then an hour or two later she will be saying, "you need to start practicing some things for when you have our son by yourself" - all literally within hours of each other. I have not given a reaction to any of these things, no agreement/reciprocation or disagreement, just trying to stay calm and even keeled.
> 
> This is unusual behavior, even by my wife's standards. I am doing my best to ignore it all saying Lets put some distance between us so we can approach what is coming from a rational rather than a vindictive standpoint.
> 
> I have stopped all but basic communication, there are no overtures, I have also stopped arguing/disagreeing. Just trying to create some distance right now.
> 
> Like I said, if there were no children involved this would be easier. The urge to protect my child from a breakup is still there, but slowly starting to accept the seemingly inevitable.


Sounds like you are on the right path. Make sure you have your ducks in a row for D. Also be ready for her to be a bad parent all of a sudden. Her emotions are on high alert and she will begin to take her selfishness to an even higher level, this will undoubtedly hurt your child at some point. I would also find out about gathering evidence and having a psych eval required by the courts prior to giving custody to a BPD parent.


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## ThreeStrikes

Yankee99 said:


> This is unusual behavior, even by my wife's standards. I am doing my best to ignore it all saying Lets put some distance between us so we can approach what is coming from a rational rather than a vindictive standpoint.


Unusual, but typical for a BPDer. They will flip quickly. It's called "splitting". 

Distance will not matter for somebody like her. Your best bet is to get this done as quickly as possible.

She will definitely Hoover you, because she has a tremendous fear of abandonment.


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## Yankee99

Had a consult with divorce lawyer today.

Learned the following as it pertains to my State:

Infedility really doesn't have any bearing unless there are financial implications (ie paying money to the mistress)
If anything, the courts would most likely be sympathetic to my wife (say she repressed her natural biological urges) keep in mind I live in the northeast very "progressive" here
$5-6k would be my total legal costs assuming nothing crazy
He felt she may want to get things over quickly once I file to avoid any embarassment

Now in regards to exposure, I can't get into to much detail other than to say OW knows I am on to her. In terms of job, my wife works for the county, unlikely they would do anything but if she lost her job, it would be hard for her to replace and then I will get REAMED on alimony.

Husband I only have the home number very hard to reach. There are some other reasons why I am wary to openly contact him, suffice it to say where I live, one unfounded allegation against me can cause a world of hurt and I'll leave it at that. 

Right now I am keeping my wife placated, not disagreeing with anything, making myself scarce, etc etc. Yes she is back to texting up a storm the few times I have been around her (surprise surprise) but the look on her face has gone from elation to a look of boredom and or disappointment. 

Yes she has also been a worse parent then normal, yelling at our son when he hurt himself when he was playing a little too wildly. Luckily I was there to be the one to pick up, hold, tell him its ok. The thought of me not being around all the time is still breaking my heart.

Tonight, she said "if it wasn't for him I think our marriage would be a lot stronger" I swallowed, took a deep breath and told her calmly that I didn't appreciate her saying that and please not to say it around me again.

Did finally make it out to the gym today, it felt surprisingly good, have to make a habit of doing that again. I have been having trouble with sleep the last week or so, I have needed a few belts of bourbon to fall asleep some nights.

The focus is starting to come back and I feel like I can concentrate a little better at work. I know in my heart it is over, but I feel like she is still trying to manipulate me at times. Anyone know Charlie Brown? When Lucy would say "I am going to hold the football while you kick it" and then yank it away at the last second causing Charlie Brown to fall over and hurt himself? That has been our relationship in a nutshell, with the football representing her love/affection/commitment to the relationship. She knows she doesn't really have any power over me now, but it doesn't stop her from trying.

The bad part for me lately is that she can blow up whenever she wants to, and then she is over it and will go sleep like a baby. For me, I take things more inside where it is hard to get them out of my mind, hence the sleep trouble. I am trying to act rationally in terms of "what can I do to have to pay the least amount of $ and still get to spend as much time with my son as I possibly can" If that means I have to eat an occasional s*** sandwich and avoid the satisfaction of revenge for revenge's sake, then I will do it, although it is really getting to me.


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## Chaparral

Just do everything to get away quickly. I usually advise exposure and destroying the affair. In your case I thinkyou just need to be rid od her.

Saying that about your son tells me everything I need to know. Too bad you didn't have a var on you.


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## Chaparral

Consider asking your atty about a psych evaluation for you wife. You should try for full custody at least.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Get a voice activated recorder and tell your lawyer that your wife is acting erratic. Not for court, but to protect yourself. Yelling at your child, because her fun was ruined, is completely inappropriate.


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## Yankee99

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Get a voice activated recorder and tell your lawyer that your wife is acting erratic. Not for court, but to protect yourself. Yelling at your child, because her fun was ruined, is completely inappropriate.


I am REALLY scared about the laws as it pertains to this stuff. 

I think presenting any evidence like that would end up getting me in more trouble than it would her. 

Think its time to get this moving.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Yankee99 said:


> I am REALLY scared about the laws as it pertains to this stuff.


 That's because you didn't understand my post.



> I think presenting any evidence like that would end up getting me in more trouble than it would her.


Please, read my post again. I said get a VAR and tell YOUR lawyer she is acting erratic. Obviously, he will advise you on any laws that includes taping conversations. That's why I said not for court, but for your protection. She flips out, hits you, screams at the kid and calls the cops you'll be wishing you had something to help. Yes, that has happened.


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## Pault

IN regard to the continued chnages of your Ws attitude.
Consider keeping a secret journal day by day of what is happening and inparticular comments - it may show a judge how hard its been


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## Yankee99

Sent an appointment request to a therapist today (just for me). Never thought I would do something like that, let alone talk about it on a forum.

I committed to this cooling off period, but it is f'ing difficult. Again, only thinking about my son and what this is going to mean for his life.

We all ate dinner out together tonight, for the most part I did well playing it cool, knowing (yes knowing, but I am not going to get into it on a public forum) that I am being lied to. Lying to me when I am not even asking where she is. 

I still am questioning how I acted, how I could have prevented my wife from resuming and heightening this affair. Basically she took our cooling off period as a license to resume and escalate her cheating without me trying to spoil her fun (didn't seem like thats what we were agreeing to at the time - it was supposed to be to let tempers cool before we start talking custody, etc)

Son's B-Day party is this weekend, so I don't want to ruin it for him by doing anything in the next couple of days. 

Not sure I can make it the full cooling off period before I file.

Not really much of an update, keeping this thread going has been therapeutic for me and I appreciate the replies.

Oh, I will also say I get a sick feeling in my stomach every time I see a woman looking at her iphone. Guess that will be a trigger for me since texting was the catalyst for the affair that finally blew up my marriage.

A few months from now when I am looking to date (one bright side I suppose), it is going to be tough for me to deal with since every woman I know seems addicted to those phones and texting.


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## Aspydad

You need the VAR.

Good friend of mine was going through a divorce when things got bad for him. He was trying to protect his business and of course his wife's attorney was trying to get as much money for her as he could. The wife was also mad that my friend had already started seeing someone new - this was a big mistake by the way - always need to get the divorce complete prior to starting new relationship.

So, my friends wife tells him to meet her at the dentist office to pick up his son - she gets him in a room alone right next to the main waiting room to talk to him - she then proceeds to yell and scream that she was being attacked by my friend! Mind you, not one witness saw him lay hands on her but all heard the commotion - my friend ends up getting arrested - cost him 80K to defend himself against the charges - she told the officers that he tried to choke her - in the state he is in this is a felony! Up to three years in jail if convicted. So not only was he trying to protect his business - now he was trying to keep himself out of jail.

I will tell you that he ended up getting taken to the cleaners in both his divorce and with the other charge - he was actually found innocent of choking but the jury felt that something must have happed so they convicted him of assault.

Watch out - these lawyers get paid on how much money they get for their client and are scrupulous.


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## phillybeffandswiss

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/140762-i-will-probably-delete-thread.html#post5486266

I want you to read the first few posts in this thread. This is why I said get a VAR if you really feel your wife's anger is erratic. I wasn't trying to be funny or over the top.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Yankee99 said:


> Sent an appointment request to a therapist today (just for me). Never thought I would do something like that, let alone talk about it on a forum.
> 
> I committed to this cooling off period, but it is f'ing difficult. Again, only thinking about my son and what this is going to mean for his life.
> 
> We all ate dinner out together tonight, for the most part I did well playing it cool, knowing (yes knowing, but I am not going to get into it on a public forum) that I am being lied to. Lying to me when I am not even asking where she is.
> 
> I still am questioning how I acted, how I could have prevented my wife from resuming and heightening this affair. Basically she took our cooling off period as a license to resume and escalate her cheating without me trying to spoil her fun (didn't seem like thats what we were agreeing to at the time - it was supposed to be to let tempers cool before we start talking custody, etc)
> 
> Son's B-Day party is this weekend, so I don't want to ruin it for him by doing anything in the next couple of days.
> 
> Not sure I can make it the full cooling off period before I file.
> 
> Not really much of an update, keeping this thread going has been therapeutic for me and I appreciate the replies.
> 
> Oh, I will also say I get a sick feeling in my stomach every time I see a woman looking at her iphone. Guess that will be a trigger for me since texting was the catalyst for the affair that finally blew up my marriage.
> 
> A few months from now when I am looking to date (one bright side I suppose), it is going to be tough for me to deal with since every woman I know seems addicted to those phones and texting.


If the cooling of period included no contact between her and other woman just file asap. Why torture yourself waiting? She does nor care. Why should you suffer more than you have too? You don't have to reveal your sources. Just tell her you know and she should have some dignity and stop lying.


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## CASE_Sensitive

My cousin had his wife leave him for another woman. She was a lesbian who never knew she was a lesbian when she married him. They have one son together. He's now remarried and with another kid with the new wife. 

Life will go on and you can/will find happiness. This woman you thought you married does not exist any longer. Time to focus on the future and find the healing you will need. Not an easy road but you'll get there.


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## Yankee99

phillybeffandswiss said:


> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/140762-i-will-probably-delete-thread.html#post5486266
> 
> I want you to read the first few posts in this thread. This is why I said get a VAR if you really feel your wife's anger is erratic. I wasn't trying to be funny or over the top.


Yes, I have it covered. Thanks for you concern.


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## Yankee99

Yeah, to hell with the cooling off period. Kid's birthday is Sunday. I just have to make it through that.

I don't want to leave my house, and it will take a good 3 or 4 months at least to push the D through.


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## weightlifter

Yankee99 said:


> Oh, and I am a psycho control freak, she won't live in this "prison" with me anymore and she will go to counseling only as a means to find out how to proceed in the divorce process. This all happened last (sunday) night. Now today she is still extremely angry and not at all remoresful (through emails, of which I have tried to take the high road and not be angry)


Damn I am getting to be a cynical bastage. 

Metallica - King Nothing [Official Music Video] - YouTube I would like to quote the great philosphers Metallica at position 0:03:58 thru 0:04:15

Careful what you wish, careful what you say
Careful what you wish, you may regret it
Careful what you wish, you just might get it

Anyway IF you want to save it or IF you want to see how deep the affair REALLY is; 

My standard post below.

VARs and evidence

Your wife is acting funny. Her phone and email suddenly have passwords you don't know. She shuts down phone apps or changes windows on the computer whenever you enter the room. She is suddenly staying out until 2 to 5 in the morning. She has new single friends. She has lost weight and is dressing hotter to boot. Her ex contacted her 3 weeks ago and she wants “to meet to catch up at some public place” Any of this sound familiar? 

If you are reading this your gut is going crazy. “Relax”, in that there is a high liklihood that you are not crazy at least. “Your gut” is your basic instinct from the caveman period. There is something up with your mate. It is part of your mind built into you and in your DNA. You probably cant sleep. You are losing weight like crazy and are not hungry. Well if you are reading this and that is 90% of you reading this if its your first time... You are embarking on what is probably going to be the worst time of your life.

Chin up, yes I know it is damn near impossible to believe now, but I and the people at TAM here have taken dozens of men through this process. Some reconcile, most dont in the long run so be aware. Most of us hang around this grim grim place for a sense of “pay it forward” and “getting at the truth” Even in divorce, the long run the majority find love again... yes really. Often selecting a far far better future companion. Read poster BFF for a thread of disaster, divorce, recovery, and a new wonderful woman in his life. Younger and hotter, yes, but also one with better boundaries, often a far far better personality match. Oh and they get to go through that first time with her after the first I love you's have been exchanged. Just know, that for the majority, even if the marriage crashes, in six months, a year, maybe two you will wonder how you got so far so fast and how great your new life is. You will also be MUCH MUCH stronger as a person.

So. Here are your instructions. Do this now. I dont mean next week. I mean make something up within the next day and GET IT DONE! Not looking will only prolong your agony.
Rule 1 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 
Rule 2 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 
Rule 3 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 

NO MORE CONFRONTS!! Play dumb husband for a bit. Dont drive her further underground! Soft confronts RARELY WORK AND ONLY MAKE GETTING AT THE TRUTH HARDER!!! THIS PROLONGS YOUR AGONY! NEVER give up you get your intel from the VAR. You tell her, you always got your info from a PI or someone saw them. Hard confronts with overwhelming evidence to crush all resistance are the name of the game.

Buy 2 sony ICDPX312 or ICDPX333 voice activated recorders. Best Buy sells them for like 50 bucks. DO NOT BUY THE cheapies. USE LITHIUM batteries. We have examples of 25 hour recordings using them on these sony recorders. My icon IS a Sony ICDPX312. No I do not have stock in nor work for Sony.

Setup instructions are on page 19. Also good stuff on page 31.
Use 44K bit rate for balancing file size vs quality DO NOT USE 8K!!!!! Simply put. The higher the quality the better the sound and 8K sucks. ALSO. The higher the quality the more you can manipulate the mp3 in Audacity.
Set VOR "on" see page 38
See page 40 for adding memory if necessary
Play with it yourself to get familiar. TEST IT OUT 
Turn off the beep feature. Its on one of the menus. You can even play prevent defense by going to a dollar store, buying uber-cheapie earbuds, cut off the buds but put in the jack which will actually disable the speaker for additional protection.

Go to Walmart and buy heavy duty velcro.
This is one item: Velcro Heavy-Duty Hook and Loop Fastener VEK90117: Office : Walmart.com
also
Purchase VELCRO Hook and Loop Fasteners, Sticky-Back, for less at Walmart.com. Save money. Live better.
The velcro is usually in the fabric section or less often in the aisle with the fasteners like screws. The velcro pack is mostly blue with a yellow top. Clear pack shows the vecro color which is black or white. 

Use the velcro to attach the var under her seat UP INSIDE. SECURE IT WELL!!!!!! So well even a big bump wont knock it off. attach one side HD velcro from Walmart to back. USE BIG PIECE
attach other side HD velcro again UP INSIDE car seat. 

ATTACH THE CRAP out of it. It needs to stay put going over big potholes or railroad tracks.
I recommend exporting the sound files to your comp. The recorder is very cumbersome for playback.

Put the second VAR in whatever room she uses to talk in when you are not around. If you are a typical man, use your size advantage to put it someplace she cant reach, even on a chair. Beware spring cleaning season if she does it.

Amazon has a pen VAR that can be placed in a purse or other small place to get remote conversations. Yes the pen works.

Usual warning. If you hear another man and perhaps a little kissing or... STOP Listening and have a trusted friend listen and tell you what went on. Knowing she is a cheat will kill you. Hearing her moan while another man is inside her will murder you to your very soul!!!!!! You are not strong enough to hear that. Dont try it. I know what I am talking about in this.

If you need clean up the recordings get Audacity. Its free from the internet. I have used it on var work for others here to remove things like engine noise. If needed, I have done var work for four men here. RDMU is the only one who has released some of the confidentiality. Read his second thread for my reliability and confidentiality. 

Lets be very clear about what the VAR is for and is not for. It will not be court admissible evidence. It is not for the confrontation. IT IS TO GET YOU AHEAD OF THE AFFAIR so you can gain other real evidence by knowing the who and when. NEVER MENTION YOUR VAR EVIDENCE. As far as the cheater is concerned, they were seen by a PI or something NOT your VAR!!

If your wife comes home from an alone time does she immediately change liners, change panties possibly even immediately laundering them?, shower? This can be an after the fact clean up. Amazon sells a semen detection kit called checkmate.

The ezoom GPS has been found to be easy to buy at Radio shack and useful. There is even a locator webpage you can track with.

Look for a burner phone. This is a second phone from a prepay service just used for cheating communications. That is often why wives let the husband "see their phone" The dont use their main phone for cheating purposes.

There is an app out there called teensafe. Its for both Iphone and Android. It monitors texts, GPS and facebook. Needs no jailbreak. Not perfect and delayed but no jailbreak required.

Look for apps on her phone like words with friends. It has a non traceable texting feature.
Here is a list 25 Apps to Help You Cheat On Your Girlfriend | Complex
Rclawson came up with how to get the PW on an ipad
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...eling-my-wife-cheating-me-16.html#post4692714

A poster named Stigmatizer came up with this nice app that appears to give the caller name for iphones:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...y-creepy-happening-my-home-7.html#post4769890

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/4854930-post220.html
Hi rosie!

If he uses chrome or firefox, there is probably a list of saved passwords you can look at. Even if his email isn't saved there, people usually only use a couple of different passwords, so one from the list might work. 

For firefox it's Tools -> Options -> Security -> Saved Passwords

For Chrome it's the little box with three bars in the top right -> Settings - Show advanced settings -> Managed saved passwords


----------



## torn2012

Hey Yankee. Your thread brings back a few bad memories for me. There's a few similarities to what I went through here. My ex wasn't the total nut case yours seems to be but the whole lesbian thing cuts deep for me. Refusing to give up the friend she has feeling for... I hated that.

I have a thread detailing my discovery of my exs sexual confusion. If anything you might find comfort in finding others that went through this kind of stuff before. I know I did. There's also lots of advice from others that might be relevant to you.

There's also a support network you might be interested in tapping into for partners of people who come out as LGBT. It's called the Straight Spouse Network. Look it up on the web. 

Oh yeah, you are what is referred to as a "straight spouse" now (I prefer that term to beard). 

Most of the emotions you're going through now will be a direct result of your wife's affair and that will soak up most of your thinking power for a little while. But there may come a time when you analyze all this in your mind and the sexual identity side of things bring a whole range of emotions you may not be prepared for. Understand this a is normal reaction. Arm yourself with knowledge.

I wish you well brother.

T12


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## Pault

Yankee, I really think the VAR is a great idea. It might be wise to have something similar on you 24/7 which you can hit on in stelth mode and record these outbursts. The comment about your wife wishing she didnt have your son would be well received (not) by your family and hers Im sure. But it will as philly and some otehrs have said at least provide those can can use it as an example of how your dealing with this who situation and what your contending with.

Mnay countries and US states will not accept covert recordings in any legal affairs - but there may be other agencies and certainly family/friend who will hear and start supporting you. The weaker her case the more pressure she is feeling. Beside (I hoep this is never going to go down) but if in one of her loosing it moments he attackes you or god forbid your son at least you can highlight the issue. Just remember, keep you hands to yourslef no matter what, keep thinking control when you feel like letting her have the verbals full out and record any and everything. Its supprising when you make comments, add in dates and times just how the other party starts to see that they have an "incoming" on its way.

Keep it up you really are doing well.


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## Chaparral

Just because a recording may not be admissable as evidence doesn't mean the police would not listen to it if called by a lying wife/spouse.

Also, most recordings are for yourself to prove what you know to a wayward spouse or to find out if no contact has been maintained, or maybe prove to family that you are not the liar.

Never give up sources, you may need them later. Most waywards lie when they agree to no contact.


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## LongWalk

Has your wife ever talked about being a repressed lesbian? Perhaps for her it is love comes in both genders. Maybe OW encourages her to see her coming out as the victory of truth in her life. Never mind that she became a cheater in the name of honesty.

It wouldn't surprise me if she played with the liberation from the straight jacket on her sexuality up in her own mind, not because it was always torture for her to be straight, but because she wants an easy explanation to her dishonesty. After all, if her desire for women were such an issue, she could have brought it up with you. Difficult to be sure, but it would have given you something to work with. Divorce, open marriage, swinging, threesomes, therapy, whatever, all could have been discussed.

The comment she made about your son disturbing your relationship was unbalanced to say the least.

Her going between hot, e.g., wanting sex, and cold, e.g., nagging, in attempts to manipulate you make her sound disordered.

To increase security you can ask a moderator to put this thread in Private. The biggest security risk is her getting your browsing history.

It seems that they went physical early on and never stopped really, is that correct?


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## Yankee99

Chaparral said:


> .... Most waywards lie when they agree to no contact.


That should be a sig line.


Thanks again for the support, everyone.


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## betrayed2013

Oh, I will also say I get a sick feeling in my stomach every time I see a woman looking at her iphone. Guess that will be a trigger for me since texting was the catalyst for the affair that finally blew up my marriage.

A few months from now when I am looking to date (one bright side I suppose), it is going to be tough for me to deal with since every woman I know seems addicted to those phones and texting.[/QUOTE]

man, i know exactly wat ur saying. Every woman i see on their phone i already think that they r cheating on someone with someone else. I dont know how to trust anymore.


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## Thorburn

I am with everyone about getting the VAR and keeping it on you at all times.

I did the VAR in the car, caught my wife having sex. It was illegal, my attorney told me so and said the courts will not do a darn thing, so I don't have to worry. In my state (PA) it is legal to use a VAR if one party is present. So yes, I carried one on my person without my wife knowing about it.

As far the other part of me not being present in her car, again it was illegal, but WTH, it is rare that they go after a person. And who is to say that I forgot I left it in the car.

And by the way. In my state, if my wife would had complained about the VAR, guess what? It becomes admissible in court. So the recording would had been played and my attorney was going to go there.


----------



## sandc

A VAR may not be admissible in court, but if you play it for the responding police officer it may keep you out of jail. Especially when he hears a recording of her saying, "I'm going to call the cops and tell them you hit me."


----------



## LostViking

Many of you are mistaking what is admissable in CIVIL hearings and what is admissable in CRIMINAL hearings. Civil cases require perponderance of evidence to determine who is at fault, while criminal cases require "beyond reasonable doubt" to establish guilt. 

In most states a one-sided recording, not done by a law enforcement agent, is inadmissable as evidence in court ...BUT THAT DOES NOT MAKE IT "ILLEGAL". No one is going to get arrested. It just means that evidence is thrown out. 

In civil cases, such as a divorce or child custody hearing, a one-sided recording can _sometimes _be admissable depending on the judge. But it also depends on the state laws and the jurisdiction.


----------



## LostViking

sandc said:


> A VAR may not be admissible in court, but if you play it for the responding police officer it may keep you out of jail. Especially when he hears a recording of her saying, "I'm going to call the cops and tell them you hit me."


Or if she goes to the JP Court and files a restraining order or order of protection against him, it is a CIVIL matter, not a criminal matter. The burden of evidence is different. 

I do not see why a husband could not present the police or judge with a VAR recording of the incident to get a RO or OP overturned.


----------



## Chaparral

Didn't you say the other woman was running the other way after being outed?


----------



## Thorburn

LostViking said:


> Or if she goes to the JP Court and files a restraining order or order of protection against him, it is a CIVIL matter, not a criminal matter. The burden of evidence is different.
> 
> I do not see why a husband could not present the police or judge with a VAR recording of the incident to get a RO or OP overturned.


Several folks I know stayed out of jail by having a VAR when their spouses went off on them and called the police with another story. A Vet I have in couseling did this and the police heard the recording and took his wife away in handcuffs.

As far as using it in court. In our state, we are a one party state. Which means if you are present in the room or have the VAR on your person it is legal to record without the other person's knowledge. As far as the VAR in my wife's car, without me in the car that was illegal, but, had she brought this up and had her attorney try to make it an issue, then the recording and the transcript become admissable in civil court. My wife's attorney knew this and told my wife not to push it. He told her yes what I did was illegal but if we go there then there is a good chance that it becomes evidence as far as your adultery goes and we don't want that.


----------



## Yankee99

Chaparral said:


> Didn't you say the other woman was running the other way after being outed?


Was is the operative word there. Basically this cooling off period has just been used as a way to take the affair further. I appreciate everyones patience, should have more news as we get into next week.


----------



## Yankee99

She is still very much in the total love phase, and lying about it. Talked to the liar today (via phone since I can't stand the sight of her and (as of today at least which doesn't hold much water) was very agreeable on theoretical divorce terms.

This has been eye opening to say the least. I went to my MD because I told him I was feeling anxious and I noticed my hearbeat was high. He ended up doing a friggin EKG on me (which I never had before) I was terrified. "Who's your emergency contact?" I had to think and give the name of my mother! Because I knew the cheater wouldn't care! Keep in mind I was there earlier in the year for a physical, normal BP and heart rate. This time, even though I had lost more weight (205 for the first time in a long time!) my BP and heart rate were off the charts. I was actually kind of scared that something worse was wrong. Doctor ended up saying "its nerves, I wish you good luck" and wrote me a script.

We are on my wife's insurance (a better plan) and her only concern was how much the EKG will end up costing.

This thread has certainly evolved. Even if she begged for R now, there is tooo much damage. There could never be repair, and she would never allow the things we would need to repair anyway.

My head (vs my visceral instincts of rage) is to just exploit her love affair to get her to sign a D as quick as possible. Terms are usually cut and dry in my state unless one side tries to get difficult.

Oh, and she is still lying through her teeth. This is counter to most situations, but presenting the evidence to her would not be the best thing for me or for the outcome I want. It would lead to rage and then trying to find the most expensive lawyer she can find and possibly worse. She has already told me she is planning to go for bankruptcy after D. Spending addiction was a HUGE component of her BPD. I actually cleaned up all her debt at some point and she still managed to open a thousand cards (including store cards at 22+%)

It is fully physical and beyond (again can't discuss methods) and she is still denying anything happened.

Thanks for listening to the rant. Looks like I have a real gem here.

On the plus side, have really been reconnecting with my friends and especially family, and they have been wonderful. We have a long birthday party this weekend for my son, and I know my parents will be at my side the entire time helping me to get through. I can't put on the phony face and tell the easy white lies that she does.


----------



## Chaparral

Good luck, do what you have to do to protect yourself. She is just a cheater and with her attitude you are going to be one of the posters coming back saying how you can't believe how good things can be. This is more than a divorce, its independence day. It may just feel like hell now but give it time, real happiness is just down the road. You will be better than fine.


----------



## azteca1986

I hope your son has a wonderful birthday party (under the circumstances). I wish you strength to get through this. Just take a time out to collect yourself if putting on a happy face gets too much.


----------



## Yankee99

Thanks all. Tomorrow is the big day. Wish me luck, I will do whatever I have to do to hold my tongue and not ruin the day for my child.

On a plus note, I feel like I am over this relationship. I know its fast and all, but there was so little that she gave me before, I don't really feel like SHE will be missed.

The shock is starting to wear off. I love music but haven't listened in a few weeks because I just couldn't focus on it. Today, lots of music in the car and starting to smile again!:smthumbup:

Just girding myself for the inevitable insanity of the coming months, followed by "independence day". But first, the party and our last chance to publicly pretend we are still a couple...


----------



## Pault

HI Yankee,

I guessed Id see some kind of "reation" from the shock and initial discovery. Id similar. Hope your ok?

The issue of her already stating she'll declare bankrupcy may be a good point to store away as the law in most countires is that if it is a planned event to avoid any financial obligations then it can become a criminal act. But youll need to just check that out. If its criminal then she may not have the power to demand custardy over your child, especially if shes having to consider a custodial term 

Keeping the "powder dry" is becoming even more important now as your getting lies, smoke and mirrors.

Does the H from the otehr side know any of this? 
It might be that his finding ot at he last minute (about the time that certain papers are delivered to your W) would be a strategic line. 

I always feel that if you have the evidence and enough to get the other cheated spouse involved as well means that the battle lines are weakened for the cheats.

Keep weel and safe

Hope the B-day party was good for you and your son


----------



## Yankee99

Yesterday was hard. Real hard. As I said, my soon to be ex being the liar she is very easily put on the happy face and pretended all was normal.

I looked miserable the entire time and I could tell some of the parents of the other children and especially family who doesn't know picked up on it. I kept it together as best I could, and luckily my kid was so into the activities that he had no clue anything was amiss.

I did lose it at one point on her parents (well not yelling or anything) when words were exchanged. Wife's father had the nerve to jump in and say everything was my fault (now this is a guy who abandoned his family for 10+ years to live with his mistress after he had his family's house foreclosed on because he gave away all his money to support his various sexual conquests) I basically said "oh here comes the family man chiming in" and let it go at that. Glad I stopped myself from going further, and I admit that remark was pretty petty.

Going to see lawyer #2 tomorrow, the first lawyer I saw I was a little concerned about his age (he rambled on a few times with stories of his glorious past - luckily it was a free consult), so going to see a family law practice who specialize in mediation.

Wife still claims to want 50/50 custody and doesn't want the house.

No way she would ever agree to 50/50 custody if she weren't in the throws of her affair. So as I said, as painful as it is, I will probably get the best terms as long as I let her have her lover's shoulder to lean on through the process.

Taking action (going to doctor, lawyer, therapist) has definitely helped. Sitting back doing nothing is the worst.


----------



## sandc

This is the sh!t part. From now all the way through the D. Just keep gritting your teeth and making it look like a smile. Pretend to be happy for her. Think about the straight woman you will be having sex with soon. Start planning out your dating life. Think how unhappy your wife will look once her "woman" finds a new conquest and dumps here, meanwhile your banging a woman even younger and prettier than her.

This happens in 96.7% of all TAM cases.

(Disclaimer: that is a completely fictional statistic)


----------



## Yankee99

Somewhat related to the thread, I found an interesting article about BPD relationships:

How a Borderline Personality Disorder Love Relationship Evolves - Roger Melton, M.A.

The part about the rage I never really connected completely to the BPD.

I think this is worth mentioning to my therapist, over time I conditioned myself to be the recipient of these outbursts. The make ups and I'm sorrys usually followed, but definitely decreased over the years.

Does anyone know what I am talking about? Maybe there is a term for it.


----------



## weightlifter

NOTHING wrong with using affair fog against a cheater in D!

Napoleon said something to the effect of never interfere when the enemy is destroying itself.


----------



## Yankee99

weightlifter said:


> NOTHING wrong with using affair fog against a cheater in D!
> 
> Napoleon said something to the effect of never interfere when the enemy is destroying itself.


Like the quote. I was thinking Sun Tzu as well "Know your enemy and know yourself and you can fight 1000 battles without defeat"

The wife will be served tomorrow. Signed and payed the retainer today. I am totally taking the high road to get this done as quickly as possible. Could have had her served in front of her co-workers TODAY, but talked to lawyer and decided to have sheriff call her to schedule a time to get served.

She was shocked today. Not sad, but shocked. I know it is a long road ahead, but I feel a weight lifting from me. All the years of abuse that I took for the sake of our family, all the "I'm sorry"s I accepted only to be hurt over and over. Then the sorrys stopped and the cheating began, it is over now. Never again. 

As a sign of how f-ed up my soon to be exs mind is, she never had a pet growing up, we got a dog and she LIVED for this dog LOVED this dog, cuddled and smooched with the dog (until a few months ago anyway) Her first and only pet, she truly adored her. Words really can't do it justice. To the point where she cried on every trip we took when the dog was in the kennel, called every day to make sure she was ok.

Now she says "you can keep her, she will be too much bother and is getting old" Keep in mind she just turned 7, and is a small dog, probably not even half way through her life and still full of energy and love.

I am over the relationship, but I feel sorry for my soon to be ex. If this continues, I can eventually see her granting me primary custody, she wants nothing to do with her old life. As it is, she is not arguing 50/50 at all.

So, no confrontation, no exposure. Enjoy what you have before the OW eventually dumps you. You had someone who overlooked and put up with your many flaws, a home and family that you ran and controlled, love and stability all around you that you chose to throw away. I can't unmake that choice for you.

As heavy as this all is, its funny because I need my wife not to blow this "relationship" with the OW until the ink dries on the divorce papers. I joked with a friend today that we should get them gift certificates so they can go out to dinner and spend time with each other.

Did I mention she also spent 2 hours on the phone with an exboyfriend recently? Maybe she is already starting to feel insecure in her relationship with OW.


----------



## Yankee99

Hate to bump my own thread, but was curious what kind of feedback you all have.

Seems there maybe time when a non confrontational approach is useful.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Well, if it looks like she is wanting to be single try to get primary in joint custody. 

If you are set on divorce, let her detach and have her fun. It''ll make thing easier until she signs the papers.


----------



## Chaparral

I think, from the way you describe your wife, what you are getting is a get out of jail free card. Be nice nd sweet, get the divorce, and then drop the bomb on their cheating, immoral asses.

Good luck and prayers

Chap


----------



## sandc

Play nice and get a nice settlement. It will be far cheaper if you two can work it out beforehand. Once the judge signs off exose far and wide. Especially OW's husband.

Or... basically what Chap said.


----------



## bryanp

Did I miss this that the OW's husband still does not know? Is the OW planning to leave her husband?


----------



## Yankee99

bryanp said:


> Did I miss this that the OW's husband still does not know? Is the OW planning to leave her husband?


OW husband doesn't know and f-ing unlikely that OW will leave. I can't wait to reveal everything.

100+ days of watching cheating under my own roof (among other places) while the divorce clears. How can I manage? I know it will work out for me, but hard to stop making little quips when I see the iphone in my wifes hands. soon to be ex is completely off in fantasy land.

For the pet owners, the previous comment about the dog should really tip things off.

As hard as it is I CAN'T interrupt the fantasy she has going. Everything stacks up in my favor if I can only keep my mouth shut. But 3 months is a long time!! Help!!


----------



## sandc

Vent here. Make fun of the situation. Hey, if you can't laugh at pain and misery what can you laugh at?


----------



## torn2012

When it's all over and your ready to get back out there you will be surprised how easy it is to upgrade.

Then you'll wonder why you put up with her for so long.


----------



## jack.c

3 months against the rest of your life...... is it really that hard to find the strenght to resist? Think about it! 3 months in exchange for many years of happyness ahead of you.....


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## weightlifter

What is the divorce process like in your state as far as time to final, division of assets etc?


----------



## bryanp

Thanks for clarifying. After the divorce you will expose everything and more than likely the OW will dump your soon to be ex-wife in order to remain with her husband.

The comments about her leaving the dog says a whole lot about what a selfish broken woman she is. I wish you luck.


----------



## Chaparral

Start leaving your computer open on dating websites. Then go out shopping or whatever. Make sure it looks like you are looking at prettier younger women.

All fair in love and war.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Have you got yourself checked for STDs?


----------



## Pault

Yankee as many have said. Keep the smile, grit the teeth and above all keep cool. Write down everything somewhere and then when you feel the timing is just right let the cat out of the bag. Thats especially true of the OWs H. That way your Wont know whats happeneing and the pressure youve been under will have the butterfly effect. 

I guess by doing a really good reveal youll also be able to feel that these two cheats wont actually get away with anything.


----------



## Yankee99

10:15pm and cheater is still "working". This after she "worked" until 9:45 last night.

4-6 months of no confrontation (90 days is bare minimum for D in my state 4-6 months more likely) 

She says she won't move out until divorce is done.


Good grief I need something to look forward to to keep me from going off the rails. Vegas anyone? :smthumbup:

Edit: Home at 11 and tiptoed in while I faked being asleep. Not suspicious at all. Now all of a sudden she knows how to walk quietly in the house. When she wakes up before I do it sounds like a herd of elephants moving around, tonight it could be a ballerina moving around.

The OW's husband must be a complete fool if he hasn't figured it out for himself by now.


----------



## the guy

Yankee99 said:


> The OW's husband must be a complete fool if he hasn't figured it out for himself by now.


Inlighten the poor fool!


----------



## tom67

the guy said:


> Inlighten the poor fool!


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

If it was the other way around wouldn't you appreciate it?
I would.


----------



## the guy

Chaparral said:


> Start leaving your computer open on dating websites. Then go out shopping or whatever. Make sure it looks like you are looking at prettier younger women.
> 
> All fair in love and war.


There are two lines of thinking to this tactic.

One, it helps pull the wayward out of the fantasy fog and makes them second guess in what they are about to lose if the wayward continues while the betrayed "finds" someone better.

Second line of thinking is, it strengthens the exit affair and adds justification towards the wayward action in continuing the affair.

If a betrayed believes this is in fact an exit affair then take the high road and do not add any ammunition for the waywards affair. If its clear the wayward is long gone then this tactic is useless.

I think if there is some hope and the wayward is "on the fence" then it could be a good tactic in pushing the waywards over the fence...be it in the betrayed favor or not.....but at the end of the day getting out of that limbo most betrayed find them selves in, then it's worth trying this tactic.


----------



## LostViking

There are no tactics that will work for him. She's a lesbian who's been hiding her real self in the closet their entire relationship. 

No saving this relationship at all. His main priority should be preserving his mental and emotional health. I recommend one night he take all momentos of his marriage that he has remaining and burn them in the backyard like a funeral pyre. He should do it with all the pomp and ceremony of a real funeral. It will be a great mental process of letting go of her and fixing his mind on the idea that she is dead to him. Then, after this he should follow every tenant of the 180 hardcore and treat her like a ghost in the house. He needs to stop watching where she goes and wondering what she is doing at night. He needs to quit calling her and taking her calls. They can arrange care of the child via text. 

He needs to quit speaking to her and avoid her completely.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LostViking

I would also add that he need to quit being a baby sitter while she is out rubbing fuzzies with her girlfriend. He needs to pick a few nights a week, hire a reputable babysitter and have the sitter come over while he goes out and enjoys himself with buds or a woman. 

Yes I said woman. The marriage is dead. Once he files for divorce he is legally separated and he should date all the hetero ladies he wants. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sidney2718

LostViking said:


> There are no tactics that will work for him. She's a lesbian who's been hiding her real self in the closet their entire relationship.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I believe that many studies have shown that women are more plastic than men when it comes to sexuality. A fair number have had lesbian relationships and then returned to relationships with men. This sort of behavior is much more rare with men.

So while there may be reasons to give up on the marriage, the fact that her present affair is with a woman isn't necessarily one of them. Note that the other woman is also married. Once upon a time this was done for "safety", but that's not really needed now.


----------



## Yankee99

I am really not hung up on the sexuality side of things, but rather how she has reacted, both before and after she told me she was "in love". I do agree that women's sexuality maybe more plastic. Just look at popular culture, two women kissing passionately is more accepted and even considered erotic vs two men doing the same, and everyone hears the stories about girls experimenting in college.

In terms of exposing the affair, like I said, I am trying to get the best possible divorce settlement as the cheater wants nothing to do with her old life. Use the haze of the affair to my advantage.

It has been really hard to not say anything when she stays late at "work" or is texting until 11pm (keep in mind she used to be in bed by 9) and I have slipped up a few times (calling her a liar but not letting onto everything I know), but still just trying to think what is best for my kid.

I found some old letters from her, and it really did reinforce the classic Borderline Personality Disorder. I had forgotten how much she idealized me at the beginning before she got into the rage/apologize/rage/apologize cycle.

Just taking it day by day for now. Like I said she has been served, I am getting therapy for myself and the divorce process will take 4-6 months so I have a long road ahead.

Sometimes I beat myself up and think I should have been able to stop the affair, but going back through my posts is a good reminder of how many alarm bells I rang that she ignored.


----------



## LostViking

If the petition has been filed, start going out more. Date, socialize, don't mope around the house.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Yankee99

LostViking said:


> If the petition has been filed, start going out more. Date, socialize, don't mope around the house.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I hear ya man. I haven't been on a date in almost 10 years, so not sure I know where to begin. I have definitely been getting out more, spending more time with friends, etc.


Luckily I have one good friend who is still single who is willing to help me get reacquainted with the bar scene. Hopefully the bar scene works better the second time around than it did the first. When I was younger, we too often were looking to go out and get our drink on, I am hoping now to stay more focused, but it will be a weird experience for sure.


----------



## torn2012

*Re: Re: Caught wife in EA (at least) with female coworker*



Yankee99 said:


> I hear ya man. I haven't been on a date in almost 10 years, so not sure I know where to begin. I have definitely been getting out more, spending more time with friends, etc.
> 
> 
> Luckily I have one good friend who is still single who is willing to help me get reacquainted with the bar scene. Hopefully the bar scene works better the second time around than it did the first. When I was younger, we too often were looking to go out and get our drink on, I am hoping now to stay more focused, but it will be a weird experience for sure.


I also thought the bar scene would be a good place to start. Then when I started going to them I realized that I was still crap at it. So instead of focusing on picking up girls I just enjoyed spending time with my buddies.


----------



## weightlifter

HOUSE PARTIES are your friend. Get invited to max number of house parties. Go to be with your buddies but you will find women in those circles... Several long time posters got their first post separation / divorce strange from meeting women at house parties.


----------



## tom67

weightlifter said:


> HOUSE PARTIES are your friend. Get invited to max number of house parties. Go to be with your buddies but you will find women in those circles... Several long time posters got their first post separation / divorce strange from meeting women at house parties.


:iagree::iagree::smthumbup:
As weight knows tonight is THE biggest bar night of the year in the US.
Have a house party instead.


----------



## bfree

weightlifter said:


> HOUSE PARTIES are your friend. Get invited to max number of house parties. Go to be with your buddies but you will find women in those circles... Several long time posters got their first post separation / divorce strange from meeting women at house parties.


Absolutely. Women feel safer at house parties. They're more willing to open up and engage with a man. I think it will also be safer for you since your emotions are still pretty raw right now.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

It almost sounds like this thread is about how to get laid the fastest.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Caught wife in EA (at least) with female coworker*



CouldItBeSo said:


> It almost sounds like this thread is about how to get laid the fastest.


I wasn't talking about sex. I was talking about male/female interaction. It doesn't always have to end in sex to have fun with a woman.


----------



## weightlifter

bfree said:


> I wasn't talking about sex. I was talking about male/female interaction. It doesn't always have to end in sex to have fun with a woman.


I would say it not JUST about sex. It ends up in sex at some point for many. Several did get some strange but also relearned flirting and just how to chat up a woman and get some of the swagger back. The first few were not sex then the second or ninth or whatever...

House parties are lower pressure also and also tend to self create some male-female interaction without the dreaded walk-to-the-target>break the gaggle and ignore her 300 lbs friend blah blah.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

bfree said:


> I wasn't talking about sex. I was talking about male/female interaction. It doesn't always have to end in sex to have fun with a woman.





> Several long time posters *got their first post separation / divorce strange* from meeting women at house parties.


Maybe it's the wording but that sounds like getting laid to me at least.

I guess my point is, is this, as a marriage forum, a proper place for discussing how to hook up with people? I think there are websites designed for that very purpose.


----------



## bfree

It is a marriage forum but we also help people recover when their marriages end don't we? By encouraging people to go out and socialize aren't we helping them to recover from divorces? By encouraging people to talk and engage with those of the opposite sex aren't we helping them to move on?


----------



## CouldItBeSo

bfree said:


> It is a marriage forum but we also help people recover when their marriages end don't we? By encouraging people to go out and socialize aren't we helping them to recover from divorces? By encouraging people to talk and engage with those of the opposite sex aren't we helping them to move on?


In my opinion you can't move on by replacing a failed relationship with another if you're still recovering. Sure you can get an ONS hookups but the next morning you will feel like sh1t again. But that's just me.


----------



## bfree

CouldItBeSo said:


> In my opinion you can't move on by replacing a failed relationship with another if you're still recovering. Sure you can get an ONS hookups but the next morning you will feel like sh1t again. But that's just me.


Who says it is a good idea to replace a failed relationship with another one? I simply suggest that getting out and talking to people is a good way to move on from the heartache of divorce. And interacting with the opposite sex is a good way to heal from the self esteem issues that are often present in the aftermath. Talking to people doesn't necessarily translate into hookups or relationships. Frankly hookups get old after a while anyway. But I found talking to women to be very stimulating and can be quite fun in and of itself. And I'm sure women can get something out of just talking with men after a failed relationship without the pressure and expectation of sex. Don't get me wrong, men do enjoy sex. And I'm sure most women do as well. But it doesn't have to be the goal or the destination. Sometimes the enjoyment lies in the journey. Haven't you ever gone out on a date and just had fun? It doesn't mean you have to bang or marry the woman to have fun.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Yes, you did not say but someone else did. "Get some strange" means "get laid", no?


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Caught wife in EA (at least) with female coworker*



CouldItBeSo said:


> Yes, you did not say but someone else did. "Get some strange" means "get laid", no?


Don't know who said it or what they meant. I only know what I posted.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

bfree said:


> Don't know who said it or what they meant. I only know what I posted.





weightlifter said:


> HOUSE PARTIES are your friend. Get invited to max number of house parties. Go to be with your buddies but you will find women in those circles... *Several long time posters got their first post separation / divorce strange from meeting women at house parties.*


There you go. That sounds very much like instructions how to get laid fastest with strangers.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Caught wife in EA (at least) with female coworker*



CouldItBeSo said:


> There you go. That sounds very much like instructions how to get laid fastest with strangers.


You'll have to ask weightlifter what he meant. I wouldn't want to put words in his mouth nor would I want to misinterpret his post.


----------



## MattMatt

CouldItBeSo said:


> There you go. That sounds very much like instructions how to get laid fastest with strangers.


Geez. You make that sound like it's a *bad* thing.


----------



## verpin zal

CouldItBeSo said:


> Yes, you did not say but someone else did. "Get some strange" means "get laid", no?


And getting laid is wrong how? And why?

Edit: Whoops, my fine British bloke beat me to it.


----------



## weightlifter

bfree said:


> You'll have to ask weightlifter what he meant. I wouldn't want to put words in his mouth nor would I want to misinterpret his post.


Let me be blunt

At a minimum AFTER filing divorce. Those 90 day states wait for final. 5 year states.... Some states are stupid long on divorce times.

1) Go to house parties
2) Socialize with BOTH sexes. Get man friends too. Build the biggest damn social network you can!
3) Relearn flirting
4) If opportunity presents itself FVCK THE CRAP OUT OF HER (With a condom) Now dont make this a daily thing because in the future you might just meet your future Mrs v2.0 and if you have a sex history with 99 women on it you may lose a shot at something wonderful. Nonetheless a pvssy or two will do enormous amounts of ego repair for many men. MODERATION, do NOT become a player do NOT be Wilt Chamberlain and bed 1000 women.

You might pick up a few women who simply want FWB... 

Yes I mean it and no I do NOT apologize. 

PVSSY is SUPERGLUE for a mans betrayed shattered ego.
USE IT!
(in moderation)

there we go. Words from my mouth. Thanks BFree!


----------



## bfree

See there weightlifter. I knew you didn't need me to give voice to your thoughts. Lol

Btw, I don't believe Wilt Chamberlain bedded 1000 women. I very much doubt he even talked to 1000 women.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

MattMatt said:


> Geez. You make that sound like it's a *bad* thing.





verpin zal said:


> And getting laid is wrong how? And why?
> 
> Edit: Whoops, my fine British bloke beat me to it.


Nothing wrong with getting laid. Imo it's questionable when people give ONS hookup instructions on a marriage forum. Such hypocrisy around here. That kind of talk is probably common on hookup sites like A***** M******. But that's just me saying my opinion.


----------



## weightlifter

Ego recovery is part of the steps after the marriage crashes. yes this is a marriage site but this is the infidelity section and that includes divorces and break ups. That is why I am careful to say AFTER filing D. Its just in the US, some states are hideously long in their divorce process. 

90 days? Wait for D final. You can do this. That is what Mr hand is for. (sorry for the image)
5 years? You expect a man to go 5 years without sex while is stbxw is still screwing the OM?

AM advice includes a lot of advice on how to hide cheating... also a lot of actually very valid advice on attraction. Yes even the devil will tell you the truth sometimes. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

BF wilt Chamerbain reference. Guess it was 10000 women.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060616100358AAImTYl

My point is. We men are primitive creatures. Pvssy is superglue for that shattered ego. Is that dumb? Yep. It is also often true. A hook up or two will do a lot of post D men a ton of good. All things in moderation. I am NOT recommending bedding 4 women a week forever.

Hell I know a dude who should be in that 1000 women range. He is a looks player. Does the Jersey Shore house thing every summer. Single, so good looking even hetero me can tell he is good looking, makes ~90K, 29 single... Different girl most every night. Never mind what he gets in winter.

Dont worship him. 1 relationship in his life and that was high school. IF he gets married it will be a super model and it will end in gunfire. Sad really.

I respect ya CIBS, just dont agree. BTW CIBS. I remember your thread. How about an update.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

WL, all I am saying is maybe the ONS hookup talk could be left off this site. We just disagree on this simple as that.


----------



## weightlifter

CouldItBeSo said:


> WL, all I am saying is maybe the ONS hookup talk could be left off this site. We just disagree on this simple as that.


Uhkay. How about uptating your thread CIBS!


----------



## CouldItBeSo

It's too embarassing and I'm not sure I want to look back on it. Basically we are divorced in a couple of weeks and she still lives with her.


----------



## weightlifter

CouldItBeSo said:


> It's too embarassing and I'm not sure I want to look back on it. Basically we are divorced in a couple of weeks and she still lives with her.


Actually that is all I was looking for. Wasn't looking for muff diving stories.

The only part I am still curious about is how are YOU doing? Dating? blah blah blah.

End hijack. Sorry


----------



## LostViking

CouldItBeSo said:


> WL, all I am saying is maybe the ONS hookup talk could be left off this site. We just disagree on this simple as that.


This isn't your thread. If Yankee asks us to stop talking about after-separation dating then we will.


----------



## Pault

LostViking said:


> This isn't your thread. If Yankee asks us to stop talking about after-separation dating then we will.


:iagree:

Yankee is hurting at the moment and we ALL must respect this. Surely no one here can say he's wrong for feeling that dating etc is just a step to far at present. Many of us have been there.

Yankee, everyone will offer advise. But, you are the end user and see and feel what is going on now. In your mind I suspect youve done the what if, why me why us, whose fault, and what did I do wrong thinking.

Its time for "ground zero". When your ready to talk - we're all here. When you want to vent , we're all here and when you want to move forward I guess we're all standing just one step behind you........ just in case.

Keep us informed if you wish. We understand that there are aspects of this story that you dont feel you want to elaberate on and thats fine. Youve a number of "responsibilities" that need to be cared for and taken care of before anything is resolved. There is pleanty of time when all is sorted out.


----------



## Yankee99

Hi all, first off I dont take the dating talk as a hijack, good info on all sides.

I am on mobile and will follow up with more later, but stbxw is finally starting to show signs that she realizes what a mess she has created. She still wont confess to the pa, I am keeping the evidence to myseld for now, but is starting to realize she will be in a tiny apartment, no dog etc. 

She has made some overtures and is being nicer, but I think too much damage has been done to even consider R. For my kid only I may consider one counselling session and give her a chance to come clean, but I doubt that would happen. Even if she did come clean I dont see how I could forgive, but I might be less angry and able to better work with her when we have joint custody.

It makes it harder on me because I was doing well with pulling away from her and thinking about moving on. But knowing her she could just be pulling menin enough just so that she could hurt me with some rage filled comments the next time she flies off the handle.

I also wondering whatnlife would be like if I move on and find someone else. Better for me for sure but I worry about my kid . I will keep you al updated, your support has been really helpful. Her acting something short of a heartless b to me was unexpected and something I have to deal with now.


----------



## sandc

If she's starting to come out of the fog then maybe OW is starting to tire of her. Bad news.

Make it perfectly clear she has only one chance to come clean and then stick to your guns. She won't come clean. She'll trickle truth you. The only way you should even consider R is if she sets up IC for herself and her rage issues. I don't think she will though. 

You would be amazed at how good life can be without anger dominating it. When someone is actually happy to see you.


----------



## azteca1986

Yankee99 said:


> She has made some overtures and is being nicer, but I think too much damage has been done to even consider R. *For my kid only I may consider one counselling session *and give her a chance to come clean, but I doubt that would happen. Even if she did come clean I dont see how I could forgive, but *I might be less angry and able to better work with her when we have joint custody.*


Good reason for counselling, imo.


----------



## Yankee99

Of course a couple hours after my post, the cheater calls me and asks me to pick son up from daycare since she has to "work late" 

I said no way, then I tried calling her 20 minutes later to see where she was and no answer.

I cant do this. She wont giventhis up or come clean, time to go back to distancing myself. She pulled me in a little closer the last few days and now the lying hurts more. She thinks that she can pull me back in whenever she wants because she has done it are whole relationship.

I need to stay off her damn rollercoaster.


----------



## tom67

Let her get used to the single mother lifestyle.
Glad you told her no. Start being more unavailable and don't tell her where you are at.
If it's her day to pick up the kid too bad.


----------



## sandc

Yankee99 said:


> Of course a couple hours after my post, the cheater calls me and asks me to pick son up from daycare since she has to "work late"
> 
> I said no way, then I tried calling her 20 minutes later to see where she was and no answer.
> 
> I cant do this. She wont giventhis up or come clean, time to go back to distancing myself. She pulled me in a little closer the last few days and now the lying hurts more. She thinks that she can pull me back in whenever she wants because she has done it are whole relationship.
> 
> I need to stay off her damn rollercoaster.


So what have we learned about ourselves? 

Have you started the 180 yet? Sorry if I missed it. Stick to it. It's for YOU, not her. Everything we tell you is to help you.


----------



## Yankee99

Yeah was doing 180, but the last few days she has been nicer, asked me for a hug, etc and broke me down a little bit. Its easynto sayni will be strong, but sticking to it 100 percent is harder.

need to get back to 180, yes for myself.


----------



## sandc

Do the 180 and stick to it. Even when she starts being nice again. Most guys stick to the 180 up until the begging, crying, curled up on the floor moment, and then they waver. So, you got a row to hoe here.


----------



## LostViking

Tell her no more hugs. Hugs are a spouse's privelege. She is really no longer your wife and you are no longer her husband. She fired you, remember?


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Caught wife in EA (at least) with female coworker*



Yankee99 said:


> Yeah was doing 180, but the last few days she has been nicer, asked me for a hug, etc and broke me down a little bit. Its easynto sayni will be strong, but sticking to it 100 percent is harder.
> 
> need to get back to 180, yes for myself.


When she tries to pull you in this is when the 180 is most effective. It protects you from this exact thing happening and shows her she is no longer important in your life. Allowing yourself to be pulled back in is THE reason she is now back to treating you like trash. Had you continued to detach she would have come out of the fog more. Instead she now knows you are still wrapped around her little finger and she can still manipulate you whenever she wants.


----------



## torn2012

Yankee your kid will be ok. I always say that my kids are better off now because 2 happy homes are better than one unhappy home.

Many children of separated parents go on to have happy childhoods. 

Growing under the guidance of 2 loving parents is the ideal scenario, but it's not the only scenario that works. You shouldn't throw away your life to persue an ideal which may only be a marginal improvement on your other options.

Besides, how will you ever provide this ideal happy home if your ex doesn't respect boundaries? The only example you will set for your child is how to not stand up for what's best for you. 

When your child is an adult do you want them to absorb abuse from their partner the way you do or would you like them to have the courage to make a better life for themselves? 

Show your child the way by setting an example now.


----------



## weightlifter

Best scenarios
1) TWO parents in a functional marriage
2) Divorced parents in functional relationships
3) Divorced parents where one is in a functional relationship
4) Parents married and watch one of them cheat on the other.


----------



## ScubaSteve61

CouldItBeSo said:


> Nothing wrong with getting laid. Imo it's questionable when people give ONS hookup instructions on a marriage forum. Such hypocrisy around here. That kind of talk is probably common on hookup sites like A***** M******. But that's just me saying my opinion.


I'm in agreement here. NSA ONS hookups don't fix anything. Half an hour of feeling good followed by days of feeling like crap.


----------



## Yankee99

OK, fairly major update.

The good news is that the reason I only had access to my mobile is because our computer is in the guest room.

I told stbxw YOU are the one who should be banished, not me. I am sleeping in my own bed and she is in guest room. Getting some time in now on the computer while she is still "out".

I pushed on Monday for the truth that I already knew, and she finally admitted to me that she had sex with OW. Of course she only said it was once because I kept asking her about one specific day and about how things didn't add up. Still being lied to, but at least she admitted it. And she admitted to kissing when they were in the parking lot (see first post).

Now here is where I thought I would feel better. But she had no remorse, no sorrow, no guilt, she told me she felt relieved. she also said she's madly in love with OW and "its different" than any other relationship. She then said she didn't consider it cheating since it was with a woman, further, she says she is a lesbian, but only for OW. I don't know why she told me all this to be honest. She claims she looked at other women and didn't feel anything sexual, only for OW.

I asked her why OW wasn't divorcing her husband. She told me "she needs more time". Keep in mind the 13 or 14 year age gap here. She then said "OW is wondering why you haven't confronted her yet" - could be more lies for all I know. I couldn't keep silent, I told her the OW is cake eating, and is not going to leave her family and come out of the closet with her! I said does she feel the same? "She does" Why I asked then isn't she leaving her family "I don't know, I have been pressuring her but shes not ready"

So, sorry for the quality of the text here, but my mind is racing and fingers are flying. I know I have repeatedly said it, but I am done with her. I am also not going to clean up her mess (yet) and will let her be off with her cake eating lover. Why? I am not going to be plan f-ing B. She made clear she wants to spend her life with this woman, but admitted she wasn't sure the OW would go through with it.

I am fortunate that my income has been increasing the last several years, a trend I hope continues. In my state, as in many 10 years also marks a magic spot when you could be on the hook for considerably more in the way of alimony. So "best" case in this situation is that she would crawl back after OW dumps her, and we would likely repeat the cycle in a couple years, only next time she would be entitled to significantly more money. Trust is gone, it will never come back. As is the hurt she caused by her eye rolling and gaffawing when I told her how the doctor ordered an EKG when I went to see him and I was scared.

So I could go to OW husband, try to blow this up. Maybe they run into each others arms and off into the sunset, maybe OW calls the whole thing off. In any case, I AM GETTING A DIVORCE, and I know that if stbxw thought I blew up her one chance at happiness, she would make my life and the D a living hell and more importantly, probably go for primary custody.

So, I think about confrontation every day, but trying not to do it. Also trying to keep 180 with wife but it is HARD. Today for instance, I picked my kid up from school and did the whole dinner, bath, bed routine. Stbxw calls later and says "why didn't you call me so I could say goodnight?" My answer, "because I know what you do after work and I am not going to call you while you are face deep in p****."

The part that's hard is I know my stbxw is ruining her life, its like watching a car drive over a cliff. Should I try to stop it? Well I think I already have tried, multiple warnings, offering counseling, etc etc etc. No, she is in love. She has figured out why none of her other relationships worked (duh, they were all guys) So I am back to just trying to get this done as fast as possible. She says OW is waiting for me to confront everyone and then she will tell her husband the truth. Firstly, who knows if that is true, secondly, this is stbxw mess, I am going to leave her in it, at least until D is finished.

As an aside, I don't believe stbxw is a lesbian. I believe the older OW has done this before, but stbxw thinks it is true love the likes of which the world has never witnessed. When this relationship blows up, she will go back to a series of short, failed relationships with men. Just my opinion, who knows.

Sorry for the rant, very discombobulated tonight, but look forward to your comments.

As I finished typing this, stbxw pulled into the driveway and has been sitting texting for 20 minutes. 90% of this affair took place via text between a mid thirties woman and a near 50. Odd world. If OW is so into her, I wonder why they never talk on phone. I never here her on her cell and I check our home phone records regularly. It is just texting constant texting. I asked my kid what he did with Mommy yesterday and he said "Mommy was messaging her friends with her phone"


----------



## Yankee99

Wow, that was long. Sorry for the length all 

Readers digest version: she confessed but I still want a D!


----------



## sandc

I think you're plan is a good one. File for D. Be very understanding and let her keep diving face deep into pnssy. Just grit your teeth until the D is done, finis, completely done. THEN... expose to OW's husband. Tell him, I divorced my wife because she developed a terminal case of muff-diving with your wife... or whatever words you choose. Go nuclear after the D, not before. Get your favorable terms, then expose and grab a box of popcorn and watch the fireworks.


----------



## Yankee99

sandc said:


> I think you're plan is a good one. File for D. Be very understanding and let her keep diving face deep into pnssy. Just grit your teeth until the D is done, finis, completely done. THEN... expose to OW's husband. Tell him, I divorced my wife because she developed a terminal case of muff-diving with your wife... or whatever words you choose. Go nuclear after the D, not before. Get your favorable terms, then expose and grab a box of popcorn and watch the fireworks.


Yep, D was filed a few weeks ago so looking forward to kicking things into gear.


----------



## happyman64

I agree Yankee. Get the D done. You have a good grasp of the situation. 

Sadly your wife will be the big loser in the end. 

HM
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Philat

_further, she says she is a lesbian, but only for OW._

:rofl::rofl::rofl:


----------



## weightlifter

Exposure is fun.

Using threats of it to reduce alimony and using her fog against her is even more fun.

NEVER interfere with your enemy destroying itself!


----------



## tom67

weightlifter said:


> Exposure is fun.
> 
> Using threats of it to reduce alimony and using her fog against her is even more fun.
> 
> NEVER interfere with your enemy destroying itself!


Sun Tzu's Art of War

Thanks WL


----------



## Chaparral

weightlifter said:


> Exposure is fun.
> 
> Using threats of it to reduce alimony and using her fog against her is even more fun.
> 
> NEVER interfere with your enemy destroying itself!


Its a reverse confront sityation. Ww wants you to confront in order to bust up ow marriage. Tell her you will but she has to give you primary custody.. They both deserve each other. Dumb and dumber. Use it as a bargaining chip and the let the fireworks fly when your wife signs the paperwork. You know, you are in the drivers seat.


----------



## TheFlood117

Wow, the selfishness and entitlement and DELUSION from you STBXW is astonishing. 

May I ask, what type of mother (if any) is your stbxw? 

Because this sounds so, so all encompassing in her life- coming out of the closet, getting her "lickher" license, breaking up families. 

I mean, who the fvck does that??? 


What type of mom would do such a thing? 

She's willing to leave her family, become a part time mom, destroy her hubby self esteem. Then on top of all that, break up another family and wreck other kids lives?? Dafuq is wrong with people? I saw some pretty raw and fvcked up stuff today at work. But damn, this is just sociopath stuff. What the hell? 

Bizzare. I feel for you op. I really do. 

I am just bewildered.


----------



## tom67

Flood she may be chasing a high it's sad.

Not to hijack but I hope the best for you.
End hijack.


----------



## TheFlood117

Thanks tom, I'm doing good.

. I guess it's a high. I just can't fathom doing this when innocent kids are involved. It's horrible enough to have an affair with a single man, then leave you hubby for said man. But two married women with kids and major marital history?? Dafuq? It's wrong on so many levels. The kids are gonna be, as we call it, "fvcked for life". 

Having mommy all of a sudden leaving family and going into a lesbian lifestyle??? This are gonna create issues for these kids. 

Just disgusting. Be selfish. But be selfish on your own dime. Not at the expense of kids.

Leaving a family, destroying multiple kids homes, changing lifestyles. And I haven't even gotten to the husbands and the affects it will have on them. 

Both of these women are unworthy of being mothers. Trash. True trash and scum. Okay vent over.


----------



## Pault

Your doing a grand job now Yankee.

Keep the 180 going. Its clear that your W's still looking to have input (as stated in bedtime comment). keep playing the single Dad and keep the distance. That way it will play heavily on her. The OW seems to be wondering what your plans are. Good. Whilst that goes on mind games will kick in and both "ladies" will be on edge waiting for the bomb to drop.

Once the D notices are in place you could if you feel like hit the exposure button. The fallout may just unsettle the W and if her H is not aware that she playing away then it will put pressure else where for you.
I suspect this isnt the first "fresh meat" the OW has gone for. From what Ive read some ladies like the OW like the chase and first encounters then drop their victim like a stone and move on. Ive afeeling this is one of those people. Its more evident that the OW doesnt want her H knowing yet because shes enjoying the cake factor, however, the cake can be made stale by a few choice words.

As to your Ws comments about not being lesbian, not cheating because its another woman............ Well, you can see where her mind is. Shes going to drop like a stone soon when reality hits.

keep up the spirit.


----------



## weightlifter

Chaparral said:


> Its a reverse confront sityation. Ww wants you to confront in order to bust up ow marriage. Tell her you will but she has to give you primary custody.. They both deserve each other. Dumb and dumber. Use it as a bargaining chip and the let the fireworks fly when your wife signs the paperwork. You know, you are in the drivers seat.


That is an EEEVIL idea.

I LIKE IT!


----------



## weightlifter

TheFlood117 said:


> Thanks tom, I'm doing good.
> 
> . I guess it's a high. I just can't fathom doing this when innocent kids are involved. It's horrible enough to have an affair with a single man, then leave you hubby for said man. But two married women with kids and major marital history?? Dafuq? It's wrong on so many levels. The kids are gonna be, as we call it, "fvcked for life".
> 
> Having mommy all of a sudden leaving family and going into a lesbian lifestyle??? This are gonna create issues for these kids.
> 
> Just disgusting. Be selfish. But be selfish on your own dime. Not at the expense of kids.
> 
> Leaving a family, destroying multiple kids homes, changing lifestyles. And I haven't even gotten to the husbands and the affects it will have on them.
> 
> Both of these women are unworthy of being mothers. Trash. True trash and scum. Okay vent over.


My aunt did it. Left the kids to her mom, went to SF to live the lifestyle with her partner. That whole side of the family is unusual. Im mid 40s and have a half black cousin 25 years younger. She was one of the dropped off kids. One cool thing about him. For helping with grandma with some thing I forget what, he got a trip to FL and Disneyworld. *I* got to take him. It was the one and only time I went to Disney and had someone who could keep up with me. It was FAWSOME!


----------



## cdbaker

I think you have everything properly figured out Yankee. Let the boat sink itself. If you need a bit of leverage, you could threaten to expose everything publicly. It sounds like your wife would be the type to willingly give up money and parental privileges for the sake of her selfish desires.


----------



## sidney2718

TheFlood117 said:


> Thanks tom, I'm doing good.
> 
> . I guess it's a high. I just can't fathom doing this when innocent kids are involved. It's horrible enough to have an affair with a single man, then leave you hubby for said man. But two married women with kids and major marital history?? Dafuq? It's wrong on so many levels. The kids are gonna be, as we call it, "fvcked for life".
> 
> Having mommy all of a sudden leaving family and going into a lesbian lifestyle??? This are gonna create issues for these kids.
> 
> Just disgusting. Be selfish. But be selfish on your own dime. Not at the expense of kids.
> 
> Leaving a family, destroying multiple kids homes, changing lifestyles. And I haven't even gotten to the husbands and the affects it will have on them.
> 
> Both of these women are unworthy of being mothers. Trash. True trash and scum. Okay vent over.


The lesbian life-style isn't the issue. This is just like any other cheating wife scenario. No male should feel his manhood threatened because his wife went off with another woman. The point is that she went off, not with whom.

As for two families being broken up, if the WW had run off with a MM, there'd still be two families being broken up.


----------



## LongWalk

Now you praise her for her courage. Tell her you wish her happiness. As long as OW is sitting on the fence your wife will be uncertain what sacrifice means.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## Yankee99

TheFlood117 said:


> Wow, the selfishness and entitlement and DELUSION from you STBXW is astonishing.
> 
> May I ask, what type of mother (if any) is your stbxw?
> 
> Because this sounds so, so all encompassing in her life- coming out of the closet, getting her "lickher" license, breaking up families.
> 
> I mean, who the fvck does that???
> 
> 
> What type of mom would do such a thing?
> 
> She's willing to leave her family, become a part time mom, destroy her hubby self esteem. Then on top of all that, break up another family and wreck other kids lives?? Dafuq is wrong with people? I saw some pretty raw and fvcked up stuff today at work. But damn, this is just sociopath stuff. What the hell?
> 
> Bizzare. I feel for you op. I really do.
> 
> I am just bewildered.


Flood, your post had an impact on me, this is exactly the way I have been feeling. Bewilderment and dismay. Extreme anger but also sadness and pity because I know that this is not going to end well for her and frankly, she is literally not in her right mind at this stage. I sincerely believe OW will not stick around.

In terms of what kind of a mother she is? I will say inconsistent to be kind. At times she was what I would call a complete "gatekeeper", she would say "you do the bath wrong, you do this wrong, and that, I will do everything" Then she would complain that "you are the one who plays with her, I get all the tough stuff"

At times she was so doting as to be almost overbearing, excessive amounts of money spent on books, toys, clothes, etc. Constant activities, trips to the mall, lunches etc planned where they would spend a lot of time together. My mother in law spent over $700 IN ONE YEAR on shoes alone, and she is by no means wealthy.

Then there were times when EVERYTHING my son did would piss her off and send her into a screaming and swearing frenzy. IE not zipping a coat up fast enough or putting shoes on the right way. Then I would jump in and this is always where the "I never wanted any of this" comments would come in. So her relationship with my son was like most things in her life, at one extreme or the other. The "chill" and calm moments have been few and are pretty much gone now.

The obsession with OW is truly life encompassing. Not to make light of other peoples situations, but I think I have a sense of what its like to lose someone to drug addiction, because this is totally irrational and self destructive (and destructive to lots of others) and she just can't give up the high as you astutely point out.

My individual counseling sessions have been really productive, as has the support of my family and close friends. I do feel that emotionally I am really turning the page. I look back and the month of November is like a blurred fog in my mind, weeks of work lost because I couldn't stop thinking about what was happening.

All of you have been really helpful too. The sharing of my story and feedback from you all has been therapeutic.


----------



## Yankee99

sidney2718 said:


> The lesbian life-style isn't the issue. This is just like any other cheating wife scenario. No male should feel his manhood threatened because his wife went off with another woman. The point is that she went off, not with whom.
> 
> As for two families being broken up, if the WW had run off with a MM, there'd still be two families being broken up.


I have to respectfully disagree about the lesbian life style not being an issue. While yes, infidelity is infidelity regardless of the gender of the cheating parties, a homosexual relationship is different from a heterosexual one in many important ways:

Even in the progressive Northeast - it is still outside societal norms and my child may face mocking teasing and confusion if my wife successfully ends up in a homosexual relationship
This may be controversial, but frankly homosexual relationships are statistically more disordered than heterosexual ones - higher rates of domestic violence/abuse and mental and emotional instability. The research is out there and my psychologist pointed this fact out to me as well

I am not trying to stir up controversy, rather pointing out that while there are many similarities between a heterosexual and homosexual infidelity and relationships, there are some *statistical* differences.


----------



## TheFlood117

Yankee99 said:


> Flood, your post had an impact on me, this is exactly the way I have been feeling. Bewilderment and dismay. Extreme anger but also sadness and pity because I know that this is not going to end well for her and frankly, she is literally not in her right mind at this stage. I sincerely believe OW will not stick around.
> 
> In terms of what kind of a mother she is? I will say inconsistent to be kind. At times she was what I would call a complete "gatekeeper", she would say "you do the bath wrong, you do this wrong, and that, I will do everything" Then she would complain that "you are the one who plays with her, I get all the tough stuff"
> 
> At times she was so doting as to be almost overbearing, excessive amounts of money spent on books, toys, clothes, etc. Constant activities, trips to the mall, lunches etc planned where they would spend a lot of time together. My mother in law spent over $700 IN ONE YEAR on shoes alone, and she is by no means wealthy.
> 
> Then there were times when EVERYTHING my son did would piss her off and send her into a screaming and swearing frenzy. IE not zipping a coat up fast enough or putting shoes on the right way. Then I would jump in and this is always where the "I never wanted any of this" comments would come in. So her relationship with my son was like most things in her life, at one extreme or the other. The "chill" and calm moments have been few and are pretty much gone now.
> 
> The obsession with OW is truly life encompassing. Not to make light of other peoples situations, but I think I have a sense of what its like to lose someone to drug addiction, because this is totally irrational and self destructive (and destructive to lots of others) and she just can't give up the high as you astutely point out.
> 
> My individual counseling sessions have been really productive, as has the support of my family and close friends. I do feel that emotionally I am really turning the page. I look back and the month of November is like a blurred fog in my mind, weeks of work lost because I couldn't stop thinking about what was happening.
> 
> All of you have been really helpful too. The sharing of my story and feedback from you all has been therapeutic.



Yeah. keep posting here bro. As long as it helps we all will listen. And yeah, I agree with you. This is a unique thing, because it's not just the "in love with another" type of thing, but it's a lifestyle change. And that's just bizarre at her age, that might be a little un-political correct or de-sensitive for me to say in today's age of hand holding and neo-feminist society, but that's what I see. And I have some experience with this. Well, not directly, but I know a friend who dealt with his wife's affair... With another woman. And it fvcked him up. Bad. And the kids too. They have all sorts of issues. He just got sole custody-thank God. But it was tough on him. 

This type of behavior you typically see in a teenagers-"discovering" themselves, rebelling, changing their identity and personality. This is normal for Youth. But a Mother and Wife???? 

No, there are some mental health issues me thinks. I wouldn't be surprised if your wife is Bipolar or has other personality disorders. 

Sorry, so, so sorry you are here. Welcome to the brotherhood and club, no man ever wants to be apart of. The betrayed husband club. It sucks. But, we are here and will give advice. 

And vent away. Vent, vent vent away. I do still. And it helps.


----------



## Yankee99

TheFlood117 said:


> ...
> 
> This type of behavior you typically see in a teenagers-"discovering" themselves, rebelling, changing their identity and personality. This is normal for Youth. But a Mother and Wife????
> 
> ....


Its like you are reading my thoughts dude! One example, my stbxw is addicted to blistex, always has it around, plain blistex for YEARS. Now I see tropical mint and wild berry blistex - like the flavored lip gloss I remember girls going through when they first discovered kissing. Its revolting and perplexing at the same time.


----------



## TheFlood117

Yankee99 said:


> Its like you are reading my thoughts dude! One example, my stbxw is addicted to blistex, always has it around, plain blistex for YEARS. Now I see tropical mint and wild berry blistex - like the flavored lip gloss I remember girls going through when they first discovered kissing. Its revolting and perplexing at the same time.



wow!!! Like I said, teenage stuff. 

Did she not have fun when she was younger and stuff? 

What do her parents and family think of this? 

What about her close friends?


----------



## Yankee99

TheFlood117 said:


> wow!!! Like I said, teenage stuff.
> 
> Did she not have fun when she was younger and stuff?
> 
> What do her parents and family think of this?
> 
> What about her close friends?


Yeah, to finish the teenage thing, like I said 90% of this affair has been conducted via texting. Now that you mention stbxw was overweight when she was younger, so didn't do any dating until she lost weight in college. You a therapist in your day job? 

I know she has one friend who she has confided in that is basically encouraging her to "follow her heart" I suspect her mother knows but I'm not sure what she really thinks other than that it is probably all my fault according to her.


----------



## TheFlood117

I think you should expose this, if you haven't already. 

Wow, your wife is so, well how do I put this nicely. 

Dumb.


----------



## Yankee99

TheFlood117 said:


> I think you should expose this, if you haven't already.
> 
> Wow, your wife is so, well how do I put this nicely.
> 
> Dumb.


Its to my advantage to wait at this point (custody, money, etc) since there is no possibility of R. Also, as others have said, its leverage. Use it and its gone, so I think its wise to hold it for now.


----------



## TheFlood117

Yankee99 said:


> Its to my advantage to wait at this point (custody, money, etc) since there is no possibility of R. Also, as others have said, its leverage. Use it and its gone, so I think its wise to hold it for now.



Yeah, I think in this case it might be wise to hold that card. After the divorce feel free to expose and make her life as hard as possible. 

I actually think if you push hard enough you can get sole custody. Just let her live in fantasy land and get abandonment, then serve her d papers and custody. Make sure when you expose and file that the kids are in your possession- 9/10 of the law. 

I like your approach to this, it's actually very smart and Machiavellian- Keep your friends close but your enemies closer. And always fight with the sun at your back and in your enemies eyes- I think that's Art of War, but still good stuff. 

Good luck. I think you got a decent plan.


----------



## LostViking

Yankee99 said:


> I have to respectfully disagree about the lesbian life style not being an issue. While yes, infidelity is infidelity regardless of the gender of the cheating parties, a homosexual relationship is different from a heterosexual one in many important ways:
> 
> Even in the progressive Northeast - it is still outside societal norms and my child may face mocking teasing and confusion if my wife successfully ends up in a homosexual relationship
> This may be controversial, but frankly homosexual relationships are statistically more disordered than heterosexual ones - higher rates of domestic violence/abuse and mental and emotional instability. The research is out there and my psychologist pointed this fact out to me as well
> 
> I am not trying to stir up controversy, rather pointing out that while there are many similarities between a heterosexual and homosexual infidelity and relationships, there are some *statistical* differences.


I don't know the statistics. However, I have two lesbian neighbors who live a couple of houses down from mine. At least once every two weeks or so the cops are at their house breaking up fights and hauling one of them off for thrashing the other. They are constantly disturbing the peace on a very quiet street of close knit neighbors. I have a sister who is a lesbian, and I consider myself fairly open-minded, but I wish those two women would just leave.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Re custody, are you recording your dealings with her and the way she deals with your kids


----------



## Yankee99

Chaparral said:


> Re custody, are you recording your dealings with her and the way she deals with your kids


Getting as much I can, lawyer said it is more for my own protection. She would need to have a major breakdown for me to get full. Just trying to get her to stick to 50 50nfor now.


----------



## TheFlood117

Yankee99 said:


> Getting as much I can, lawyer said it is more for my own protection. She would need to have a major breakdown for me to get full. Just trying to get her to stick to 50 50nfor now.


Good. But I wonder, if say, the shoe was on the other foot. And you decided to turn gay all of a sudden and change your lifestyle and throw your wife under the bus. I wonder


Would you get joint 50/50 custody. Methinks, you would not. Call me crazy but because you got a d!ck and pee standing up, for some reason the courts view you as a less capable parent.... 

Anyway's, I hope the best for you. I am rooting for you to "win" this thing. You, if any BS ever has, deserve it.


----------



## Chaparral

Yankee99 said:


> Getting as much I can, lawyer said it is more for my own protection. She would need to have a major breakdown for me to get full. Just trying to get her to stick to 50 50nfor now.


If you want 50/50 ask for 70/30 and negotiate down.


----------



## Chaparral

Also, get a copy of a new study that is out about the effects of same sex parents on children and use it as a bargaining tool. You may also be able to use it in court.


----------



## Chaparral

New Research on Children of Same-Sex Parents Suggests Differences Matter | The Foundry: Conservative Policy News Blog from The Heritage Foundation

New Family Structures Study


----------



## Yankee99

Chaparral said:


> New Research on Children of Same-Sex Parents Suggests Differences Matter | The Foundry: Conservative Policy News Blog from The Heritage Foundation
> 
> New Family Structures Study


Interesting research. In addition to what my psychologist told me, I also know a clinical social worker who told me that lesbian relationships are much more prone to domestic and emotional abuse.

I finally put up our tree and did our Christmas decorations with my son. My wife had refused to do them this year so kid and I did it together, which was actually great. Finally got to put the nativity scene where I always wanted to put it!


----------



## sandc

Yankee99 said:


> Interesting research. In addition to what my psychologist told me, I also know a clinical social worker who told me that lesbian relationships are much more prone to domestic and emotional abuse.
> 
> I finally put up our tree and did our Christmas decorations with my son. My wife had refused to do them this year so kid and I did it together, which was actually great. Finally got to put the nativity scene where I always wanted to put it!


Is that the nativity scene with Mary and her girlfriend at the inn, and Joseph is home taking care of the baby Jesus?


----------



## Yankee99

sandc said:


> Is that the nativity scene with Mary and her girlfriend at the inn, and Joseph is home taking care of the baby Jesus?


A little to soon for me to be joking about it, but no, it was a conventional nativity scene.


----------



## sandc

Yankee99 said:


> A little to soon for me to be joking about it, but no, it was a conventional nativity scene.


Insensitive of me. I apologize.


----------



## Yankee99

OK, all. Long time since an update. About to leave on the family trip that she opted out of. 

Nothing really has changed except her behavior has become even more depraved. She claims to have a lease agreement on a condo and will be looking to move out while we are away on the trip. I'll believe it when I see it, but a step in the right direction. Then we will hammer out a temporary custody agreement. I told her to have her lawyer talk to mine, I will only communicate with my lawyer.

OW is, as I predicted, refusing to commit (as in leave her family and come out) and I have sensed an on again off again kinda stupid high school vibe going on between the two of them. So stbxw went out and had unprotected sex with an old boyfriend, then went back to OW and they have been full on again. 
She even admitted to having sex with the ex-boyfriend and was very cavalier about it.

Both my psychologist and a member of my family who is a mental health professional and has known stbxw a long time are EXTREMELY concerned about her. I am too, but only in the sense that she is my child's mother.

As for me, work is going much better, I would say I am about 80% of the way to being back to where I was before this started. I have had a couple nights out with a friend who is single, so that has also been nice.

Just moving forward. I have a TON of paperwork to do after my trip to get this divorce rolling.

Dudes, if any of you stumble upon this thread, I have to say if your spouse does not feel guilty about having the affair busted, I don't know what else you can do. At times I think maybe I was hasty, but I am not going to be anyone's plan B. It is hard to forgive and reconcile if the cheating spouse basically tells you they are doing nothing wrong (and that its my fault to boot). So chin up and face the music if you have to. If she wants to reconcile, there are others who can give advice, but it was never an option for me and is positively ruled out at this point no matter what happens.


----------



## Yankee99

I should add this old boyfriend has a much younger and more attractive girlfriend. Some guys just must love the thrill of the chase.

So glad I broke off sexual contact, still gonna have to add the STD check to my next physical though.


----------



## aug

Tell the much younger and more attractive girlfriend.


----------



## Yankee99

aug said:


> Tell the much younger and more attractive girlfriend.


Oh I am planning on it. Revelations will all be at a time and place of my choosing and to my maximum benefit.


----------



## bfree

What a trail of destruction she's leaving in her wake.


----------



## Yankee99

bfree said:


> What a trail of destruction she's leaving in her wake.


Yeah, it is really crazy! I think she started to flip out when she realized the OW is not leaving her family any time soon (she is stalling for time, just like an older man would who is having an affair with a younger woman - keep in mind 14 year or so age gap)

I told her no way in hell I was plan B, and I wasn't taking her back (not that she even asked) maybe that was part of her thinking in going with the old BF? Or a way to make OW jealous? Who the hell knows. Honest to God my wife had her faults when I first met her, but we used to go to church and bible study together while we were still dating!

I think I said also but she had some rapid and dramatic weight loss, she let herself go through the years pretty bad, then I lost a bunch of weight, and then she REALLY lost a bunch of weight (like 85 pounds) and I think that new identity coupled with whatever mental/mood disorders... I don't know. Not really my mess to figure out


----------



## bfree

Yankee99 said:


> Yeah, it is really crazy! I think she started to flip out when she realized the OW is not leaving her family any time soon (she is stalling for time, just like an older man would who is having an affair with a younger woman - keep in mind 14 year or so age gap)
> 
> I told her no way in hell I was plan B, and I wasn't taking her back (not that she even asked) maybe that was part of her thinking in going with the old BF? Or a way to make OW jealous? Who the hell knows. Honest to God my wife had her faults when I first met her, but we used to go to church and bible study together while we were still dating!
> 
> I think I said also but she had some rapid and dramatic weight loss, she let herself go through the years pretty bad, then I lost a bunch of weight, and then she REALLY lost a bunch of weight (like 85 pounds) and I think that new identity coupled with whatever mental/mood disorders... I don't know. Not really my mess to figure out


No, nothing you could or can do. Seems like she has abandoned all her values and beliefs. All you can do is do the best you can for yourself. Her problems are her problems.


----------



## MattMatt

Yankee99 said:


> Interesting research. In addition to what my psychologist told me, I also know a clinical social worker who told me that lesbian relationships are much more prone to domestic and emotional abuse.
> 
> I finally put up our tree and did our Christmas decorations with my son. My wife had refused to do them this year so kid and I did it together, which was actually great. Finally got to put the nativity scene where I always wanted to put it!


Interesting!

She has refused to interact with your son in a traditional, nurturing activity that she previously enjoyed participating in, yet this year, since coming out as a Lesbian, took a decision not to involve herself with your son, thus putting at risk the mother-son relationship that hitherto-for, had been important to her. 

It also now appears that she is emotionally distancing herself from her own son, even to the point of refusing to accompany him on a planned family trip.

You can give the above points to your lawyer and use it to show she is now becoming unstable and untrustworthy as a mother figure for your boy.


----------



## Clay2013

Sounds like my xW. 

Full of resentment and on a path of destruction. Its been six years since the divorce and wow she looks bad. When I see her with the OM I smile she is not with me. You are absolutely right about if they feel no remorse for there actions then send them packing. My xW has not once in any time ever apologized for doing the things she did. I wished I had found this site back then. 

I am glad you are moving on for you. Its hard but it is so worth it. To be with someone that does not cheat is great. Its so nice to have some peace of mind. 

Clay


----------



## MattMatt

This reminds me of someone my wife and I knew years back.

She was a church-going volunteer youth worker and she was an attractive woman.

She told us that she had decided she was a Lesbian. She dumped her boyfriend, resigned from all her church commitments, started smoking and began dressing like a comic book 'political' lesbian.

Every time we saw her she looked more coarse featured, more scruffy, more unkempt and generally looked and smelt unwashed. 

We haven't seen her in several years.


----------



## bryanp

Don't you think it is time to inform the OW's husband?


----------



## Will_Kane

Yankee99 said:


> I think I said also but she had some rapid and dramatic weight loss, she let herself go through the years pretty bad, then I lost a bunch of weight, and then she REALLY lost a bunch of weight (like 85 pounds) and I think that new identity coupled with whatever mental/mood disorders... I don't know. Not really my mess to figure out


I have seen this a number of times, the drastic weight loss and/or intensive working out, followed shortly after by an affair - enough times to make me think it's not just a coincidence.

I wonder, which came first, the chicken or the egg? Was the plan to lose weight/get in shape SO they could have the affair, or did opportunity that they couldn't resist just present itself AFTER they lost weight/got in shape?


----------



## Machiavelli

Will_Kane said:


> I have seen this a number of times, the drastic weight loss and/or intensive working out, followed shortly after by an affair - enough times to make me think it's not just a coincidence.
> 
> I wonder, which came first, the chicken or the egg? Was the plan to lose weight/get in shape SO they could have the affair, or did opportunity that they couldn't resist just present itself AFTER they lost weight/got in shape?


In my professional experience, most of the time a woman starts getting very serious about her physique, she's already decided to move on. There are exceptions.

It's a little different with weight loss surgery, which is often done for health reasons. those marriages have an 85% divorce rate after the surgery. The ones that survive are the those where the wife was hot before she got fat. If the woman was already fat at the time she met her husband, that marriage is going down.


----------



## ReGroup

Machiavelli said:


> In my professional experience, most of the time a woman starts getting very serious about her physique, she's already decided to move on. There are exceptions.
> 
> It's a little different with weight loss surgery, which is often done for health reasons. those marriages have an 85% divorce rate after the surgery. The ones that survive are the those where the wife was hot before she got fat. If the woman was already fat at the time she met her husband, that marriage is going down.


I have a co worker who had the surgery and has lost 80+ pounds.

She's married with four kids and in her mid 30's. It seems she was always big.

I don't know much about her marriage, but she is really enjoying the new attention.

Now there is talk about a boob job.

Things are going to get interesting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## weightlifter

ReGroup said:


> I have a co worker who had the surgery and has lost 80+ pounds.
> 
> She's married with four kids and in her mid 30's. It seems she was always big.
> 
> I don't know much about her marriage, but she is really enjoying the new attention.
> 
> Now there is talk about a boob job.
> 
> Things are going to get interesting.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Keep us updated. Call it a blind study. See if it is predicted before it happens.


----------



## Pault

Hi Yankee
( to you and your child I wish with all sincerity a happy Christmas).

I note that the OW is still in the comfort of her family and that the "relationship" seems to have some ice under its feet? If your W is looking around for other sexual encounters I guess shes starting to feel that the nest she was hoping was being built by her and the OW is not going up as positivly as she first that. That, to me anyway smackes of your W looking to find another relationship in readiness for the leabian one to break down. I smell panic as well going on here.

It might be usful if the GF of the guy your W slept with got to know. After all, there could be an issue of STi transfes going on. The poor gorl really doesnt deserve that.

Might be coming to the time where youve cleared down the D papers and allow the female relationship to leak out in the appropriate areas. I suspect, from your comments about erratic behaviour that your W is starting to lose the plot. Making some other key players aware of whats happening might be an idea because as your W's behaviour becomes more unstable at least others will know why and not apotion blame in your direction, indeed they might actually rally round you to provide more support.

Thank on it - but start by having the best Christmas you can as its the first one in the start of your new life.


----------



## Wolfman1968

Machiavelli said:


> In my professional experience, most of the time a woman starts getting very serious about her physique, she's already decided to move on. There are exceptions.
> 
> It's a little different with weight loss surgery, which is often done for health reasons. those marriages have an 85% divorce rate after the surgery. The ones that survive are the those where the wife was hot before she got fat. If the woman was already fat at the time she met her husband, that marriage is going down.


That seems consistent with something I once read--basically that people choose as their mates the best that they think they can get based on their own assessment of themselves.

Based on that, if the husband was the best she could do when she was fat, she may feel she can do better when she loses the weight (and therefore becomes higher status).


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Machiavelli said:


> In my professional experience, most of the time a woman starts getting very serious about her physique, she's already decided to move on. There are exceptions.


I don't really buy this. What kind of profession is it you do where you know intimate details about strange people?


----------



## Machiavelli

CouldItBeSo said:


> I don't really buy this. What kind of profession is it you do where you know intimate details about strange people?


I'm the guy that gets the women shaped up when they are ready for a new man.


----------



## Machiavelli

ReGroup said:


> I have a co worker who had the surgery and has lost 80+ pounds.
> 
> She's married with four kids and in her mid 30's. It seems she was always big.
> 
> I don't know much about her marriage, but she is really enjoying the new attention.
> 
> Now there is talk about a boob job.
> 
> Things are going to get interesting.


Yeah, the boob job will be the death knell.

Keep us posted.


----------



## barbados

Wolfman1968 said:


> basically that people choose as their mates the best that they think they can get based on their own assessment of themselves.


This is simply a restatement of he old adage " A man is as faithful as his options"

But in today's western society, that should be restated as "A PERSON is only as faithful as THEIR options"

Not always the case, but true more often than not. And again, in todays's society, in applies equally to both sexes.

.... And since we all know what sex has the easier time to copulate if they so desire.........


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Machiavelli said:


> I'm the guy that gets the women shaped up when they are ready for a new man.


And you know they are "ready for a new man" by how? Doesn't sound very professional if you chat about personal stuff like love life, relationship problems and boyfriends with your female clients.


----------



## happyman64

CouldItBeSo said:


> And you know this by how? Doesn't sound very professional if you chat about personal stuff like love life and boyfriends with your female clients.


CIBS

I am married to my wife. She is 47. I have three daughters 19,13 & 12.

I do not have to pry at all into their lives.

I just mute the TV and listen to my wifes calls and my oldest daughters calls.

I just listen to my 13 and 12 years olds video/facetime chats with their friends.

I am in the middle of these conversations and have very keen hearing.

The best part is they think I am oblivious to their conversations.

All Mach has to do is listen. The rest is easy. 95% of the women i have met are like this.

If a guy just listens he can rule the world.

Try it.

HM


----------



## CouldItBeSo

happyman64 said:


> All Mach has to do is listen. The rest is easy. 95% of the women i have met are like this.
> 
> If a guy just listens he can rule the world.
> 
> Try it.
> 
> HM


Who are they talking to if Machie here is training them one on one? Funny women you've been meeting. I've been going to the gym quite a long time now and not once I've heard any woman say that they are there because they "are ready for a new man." In fact most people are there just to train and do not talk at all. Of course you can't answer any of this since you're not Machie.


----------



## Machiavelli

CouldItBeSo said:


> And you know they are "ready for a new man" by how? Doesn't sound very professional if you chat about personal stuff like love life, relationship problems and boyfriends with your female clients.


Here's some direct quotes from orientation sessions:

Machiavelli: What are you goals, what do you want to achieve?

Married Woman #1: _I want to be a MILF. Do you know what that is? (laughing)_

Now that was the most crass one yet, but the bottom line meaning is the same as this one, which is also a direct quote:

Machiavelli: What are you goals, what do you want to achieve?

Married Woman #2: _I don't feel attractive and sexual anymore; I am so fat, only black men look at me._

And the most honest with herself:

Machiavelli: What are you goals, what do you want to achieve?

Married Woman #3: _I'm getting ready to make a change and I need the hottest body possible at my age. Can I look like this? (holding up iPhone screen of naked woman)._

Those are pretty typical.

Then there are the ones like this:

Machiavelli: What are you goals, what do you want to achieve?

Married Woman #4: _I got these boobs for my husband to play with, but he ignores me. I think maybe if I get very fit, he will become interested in me, again._

Of course, the underlying and overlying reason in all the above is the same as #3, just worded differently.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Machiavelli said:


> Here's some direct quotes from orientation sessions:
> 
> Machiavelli: What are you goals, what do you want to achieve?
> 
> Married Woman #1: _I want to be a MILF. Do you know what that is? (laughing)_
> 
> Now that was the most crass one yet, but the bottom line meaning is the same as this one, which is also a direct quote:
> 
> Machiavelli: What are you goals, what do you want to achieve?
> 
> Married Woman #2: _I don't feel attractive and sexual anymore; I am so fat, only black men look at me._
> 
> And the most honest with herself:
> 
> Machiavelli: What are you goals, what do you want to achieve?
> 
> Married Woman #3: _I'm getting ready to make a change and I need the hottest body possible at my age. Can I look like this? (holding up iPhone screen of naked woman)._
> 
> Those are pretty typical.
> 
> Then there are the ones like this:
> 
> Machiavelli: What are you goals, what do you want to achieve?
> 
> Married Woman #4: _I got these boobs for my husband to play with, but he ignores me. I think maybe if I get very fit, he will become interested in me, again._
> 
> Of course, the underlying and overlying reason in all the above is the same as #3, just worded differently.


None of those quotes indicate they are doing anything else than self improvement or trying to impress their partners. Isn't this what's told to men here every day. I think you are letting your imagination run wild and are reading too much into it.

How do you know they are married by the way?


----------



## tom67

CouldItBeSo said:


> None of those quotes indicate they are doing anything else than self improvement or trying to impress their partners. Isn't this what's told to men here every day. I think you are letting your imagination run wild and are reading too much into it.
> 
> How do you know they are married by the way?


Dude they are upping their sex rank it may be for their husband but most of the time not.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

tom67 said:


> Dude they are upping their sex rank it may be for their husband but most of the time not.


That's just your cynical guess and you do not know that for sure. The reason for anyone to workout and improve their physics should be for yourself not anyone else.


----------



## WayUpNorth

Yankee99 said:


> Oh, I will also say I get a sick feeling in my stomach every time I see a woman looking at her iphone. Guess that will be a trigger for me since texting was the catalyst for the affair that finally blew up my marriage.
> 
> A few months from now when I am looking to date (one bright side I suppose), it is going to be tough for me to deal with since every woman I know seems addicted to those phones and texting.


I really dislike the smart phones and the way people are addicted to them. Can't even have a conversation anymore. And the constant texting. You never know what is on that screen that they don't show you.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Caught wife in EA (at least) with female coworker*



CouldItBeSo said:


> That's just your cynical guess and you do not know that for sure. The reason for anyone to workout and improve their physics should be for yourself not anyone else.


Working out or doing anything to improve yourself "should be" for yourself. But most of the time there is an underlying reason and it is based on someone else. I can certainly see how Machiavelli interprets the comments as these women are looking for outside validation and therefore extremely susceptible to an affair. The truth is if you look at those comments you can see that they are not satisfied with certain aspects of their lives and some are blatantly pointing at their relationships as the root cause of their unhappiness.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Exactly, like you said he interprets which is pretty much the same as guessing. Also your statement "most of the time" is your guess not a fact.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Caught wife in EA (at least) with female coworker*



CouldItBeSo said:


> Exactly, like you said he interprets which is pretty much the same as guessing. Also your statement "most of the time" is your guess not a fact.


Actually it's not a guess or a fact. It's a statement.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

bfree said:


> Actually it's not a guess or a fact. It's a statement.


Statement not based on facts; a guess; an opinion...


----------



## bfree

So if I guess correctly is it now a fact? Facts are malleable and can be manipulated. Opinions are subjective. A statement is just what it is. You can agree or disagree at your pleasure. Matters not to me.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

bfree said:


> So if I guess correctly is it now a fact? Facts are malleable and can be manipulated. Opinions are subjective. A statement is just what it is. You can agree or disagree at your pleasure. Matters not to me.


The very root of your "statement" is based on assumption that is just your imagination: _"most of the time there is an underlying reason and it is based on someone else"_. You have no way of knowing this to make such generalizations. Unless you've been into every gym in the world and asked every woman why they are working out...


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

CouldItBeSo said:


> The very root of your "statement" is based on assumption that is just your imagination: _"most of the time there is an underlying reason and it is based on someone else"_. You have no way of knowing this to make such generalizations. Unless you've been into every gym in the world and asked every woman why they are working out...


Dude, quit being pedantic and parsing this into a derail. He made a statement and you disagreed, the end.

Here's some real parsing pedantry, every opinion, fact, assumption or generalization is a statement.


----------



## Machiavelli

CouldItBeSo said:


> None of those quotes indicate they are doing anything else than self improvement or trying to impress their partners. Isn't this what's told to men here every day. I think you are letting your imagination run wild and are reading too much into it.
> 
> How do you know they are married by the way?


Usually, the rings are a clue. Then the complaints about the husband not getting in shape, not wanting sex, looking at other women, etc.


----------



## Machiavelli

CouldItBeSo said:


> The very root of your "statement" is based on assumption that is just your imagination: _"most of the time there is an underlying reason and it is based on someone else"_. You have no way of knowing this to make such generalizations. *Unless you've been into every gym in the world and asked every woman why they are working out.*..


Classic solipsism.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Dude, quit being pedantic and parsing this into a derail. He made a statement and you disagreed, the end.
> 
> Here's some real parsing pedantry, every opinion, fact, assumption or generalization is a statement.


I'm just making sure everyone understands that bfree is stating an opinion, guess or assumption, not a fact based on reality in any way.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Machiavelli said:


> Usually, the rings are a clue. Then the complaints about the husband not getting in shape, not wanting sex, looking at other women, etc.


Why are these married women complaining about their husbands and talking about their sex lives with you? By TAM criterion that sounds awfully lot a like an emotional affair to me. Aren't you married yourself?


----------



## happy as a clam

So Yankee, any updates?


----------



## Machiavelli

CouldItBeSo said:


> Why are these married women complaining about their husbands and talking about their sex lives with you? By TAM criterion that sounds awfully lot a like an emotional affair to me. Aren't you married yourself?


That's what they do at the beauty shop, that's what they do with the guys at the office, that's what they do at happy hour. Why do you think a trip to the physique studio is going to be any different? 

In fact, it's going to be even more so, since we're looking at their blood work, their meds, hormone levels, and basically discussing how they can get a bigger ass and flatter abdomen. Of course, by the time they leave here, they are out of breath and have an elevated heart rate.

You're a "social scientist", so you should be able to figure it out.


----------



## thummper

Yeah, Yankee. What's going on with your situation? Is your wife showing any signs that she's rethinking what she's doing? I hope all is well with you.


----------



## CouldItBeSo

Machiavelli said:


> That's what they do at the beauty shop, that's what they do with the guys at the office, that's what they do at happy hour. Why do you think a trip to the physique studio is going to be any different?
> 
> In fact, it's going to be even more so, since we're looking at their blood work, their meds, hormone levels, and basically discussing how they can get a bigger ass and flatter abdomen. Of course, by the time they leave here, they are out of breath and have an elevated heart rate.
> 
> You're a "social scientist", so you should be able to figure it out.


It sounds like you need to read the book "Not Just Friends" and re-check your boundaries with married women.

I'm not a scientist. You are mixing me up with someone else.


----------



## Machiavelli

CouldItBeSo said:


> It sounds like you need to read the book "Not Just Friends" and re-check your boundaries with married women.
> 
> I'm not a scientist. You are mixing me up with someone else.


Sorry about the mix up. As for boundaries, I'm a professional. Furthermore, I don't believe in the existence of "emotional affairs," unless they involve surreptitious activity.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Machiavelli said:


> I don't believe in the existence of "emotional affairs," unless they involve surreptitious activity.


:rofl:

Sorry, I had to laugh at how this was written.


----------



## Machiavelli

phillybeffandswiss said:


> :rofl:
> 
> Sorry, I had to laugh at how this was written.


How so?


----------



## just got it 55

Machiavelli said:


> Here's some direct quotes from orientation sessions:
> 
> Machiavelli: What are you goals, what do you want to achieve?
> 
> Married Woman #1: _I want to be a MILF. Do you know what that is? (laughing)_
> 
> Now that was the most crass one yet, but the bottom line meaning is the same as this one, which is also a direct quote:
> 
> Machiavelli: What are you goals, what do you want to achieve?
> 
> Married Woman #2: _I don't feel attractive and sexual anymore; I am so fat, only black men look at me._
> 
> And the most honest with herself:
> 
> Machiavelli: What are you goals, what do you want to achieve?
> 
> Married Woman #3: _I'm getting ready to make a change and I need the hottest body possible at my age. Can I look like this? (holding up iPhone screen of naked woman)._
> 
> Those are pretty typical.
> 
> Then there are the ones like this:
> 
> Machiavelli: What are you goals, what do you want to achieve?
> 
> Married Woman #4: _I got these boobs for my husband to play with, but he ignores me. I think maybe if I get very fit, he will become interested in me, again._
> 
> Of course, the underlying and overlying reason in all the above is the same as #3, just worded differently.


Mach Please start a thread on this subject and the "Golden Ratio"

It would be fascinating

55


----------



## thummper

Machiavelli
Married Woman #4: [I said:


> I got these boobs for my husband to play with
> 
> 
> 
> Nice mental picture. *sigh* Sorry.:yawn2:


----------



## Yankee99

thummper said:


> Yeah, Yankee. What's going on with your situation? Is your wife showing any signs that she's rethinking what she's doing? I hope all is well with you.


Thanks all. She moved out and is still seeing ow. We are splitting custody 50 50, it has been hard on my child. 

Still using the affair to get what I want out of this. She could make the divorce hell, but she would rather focus on the ow. 

Will provide more later. Thanks foe the interest. I am doing really well, only concern is the horrible impact on my child.


----------



## Yankee99

Hey All,

As promised, just want to keep you all updated. I haven't really been visiting this site much lately, trying to move on and sometimes reading the other stories here is still too upsetting for me.

We have a big meeting with us and the lawyers coming up that has me very nervous. I have been going out of my way to be nice to her, limiting contact to text messages basically but also sending pics of our kid and dog, telling her to have a nice day, etc. Don't want to get her temper going before we begin negotiations. Just trying to do what is in my best interest

This is still extremely hard on my child, although I feel like I am progressing. 

Its funny, because stbxw only started showing SOME signs of guilt once I started being nicer to her. I admit prior to the past couple weeks I couldn't resist throwing in digs about her affair since I am still hurt and flabbergasted (though getting much better). She even went so far as to say she was sorry for "everything" (via text not very long) and that she "missed me". I did a little digging and to me it sounded like a breadcrumb, nothing more. I am not sure what her motives were behind saying that. In any case, being nicer to her caused a little bit of a setback in that I actually started to be bothered again about what she is doing, even though she has been out of the house for over a month.

The breaking point was when she asked me to lunch to "talk" I said I wasn't ready, but on a short phone conversation, she said we BOTH are responsible and I didn't try very hard in the marriage. This set me off and I sent her a litany of things I did in the last year (via text since she hung up the phone after dropping that bomb) and asked her to name just one that she did.

In any case, Its been 4 or 5 steps forward and now one back, but will be moving on. Looking forward to my IC to discuss, it has been very helpful.

Just really focusing now on not having her be disagreeable, since any custody dispute in my state = legal bills in the tens of thousands of dollars.

I feel like I am starting to see the light ahead, but still aways to go. Learning how to keep the house up is a daunting challenge, and I still can't get over the absurdity of the situation. I knew we would end here eventually, OW not leaving her family and both of us unhappy. I hope to turn around MY unhappy part once I start dating. Will wait for the divorce to be final first.


----------



## jack.c

Yankee99 said:


> Hey All,
> 
> As promised, just want to keep you all updated. I haven't really been visiting this site much lately, trying to move on and sometimes reading the other stories here is still too upsetting for me.
> 
> We have a big meeting with us and the lawyers coming up that has me very nervous. I have been going out of my way to be nice to her, limiting contact to text messages basically but also sending pics of our kid and dog, telling her to have a nice day, etc. Don't want to get her temper going before we begin negotiations. Just trying to do what is in my best interest
> 
> This is still extremely hard on my child, although I feel like I am progressing.
> 
> Its funny, because stbxw only started showing SOME signs of guilt once I started being nicer to her. I admit prior to the past couple weeks I couldn't resist throwing in digs about her affair since I am still hurt and flabbergasted (though getting much better). She even went so far as to say she was sorry for "everything" (via text not very long) and that she "missed me". I did a little digging and to me it sounded like a breadcrumb, nothing more. I am not sure what her motives were behind saying that. In any case, being nicer to her caused a little bit of a setback in that I actually started to be bothered again about what she is doing, even though she has been out of the house for over a month.
> 
> The breaking point was when she asked me to lunch to "talk" I said I wasn't ready, but on a short phone conversation, she said we BOTH are responsible and I didn't try very hard in the marriage. This set me off and I sent her a litany of things I did in the last year (via text since she hung up the phone after dropping that bomb) and asked her to name just one that she did.
> 
> In any case, Its been 4 or 5 steps forward and now one back, but will be moving on. Looking forward to my IC to discuss, it has been very helpful.
> 
> Just really focusing now on not having her be disagreeable, since any custody dispute in my state = legal bills in the tens of thousands of dollars.
> 
> I feel like I am starting to see the light ahead, but still aways to go. Learning how to keep the house up is a daunting challenge, and I still can't get over the absurdity of the situation. I knew we would end here eventually, OW not leaving her family and both of us unhappy. I hope to turn around MY unhappy part once I start dating. Will wait for the divorce to be final first.


Good update and thank you for getting back 
Dont be surprized if she wants to R. .... get ready for it but mostly get you answer ready!


----------



## weightlifter

Dont R. She is way too far gone and the bi tendencies... Unless you are OK with sharing with women on occasion.

All I can say is this. You are very likely to love again. You are far too injured ATM to consider it but in a year... two... Open your heart and believe.

Meanwhile go to house parties expand your male friend circle and (in moderation) GET LAID with a few of the women inside those ciricles! Vagina juice is SUPERGLUE for that smashed ego of yours.


----------



## Yankee99

No worries, R is out of the question. Although I admit I would have liked to have her in that frame of mind as we went through the negotiations.

I also wanted to be able to tell her no if she came crawling back. But after spending 5 minutes on the phone with her the other night, I don't think that will ever happen. Not sure what she wanted to "talk" about it was either just her exploring a plan B or her trying to shed some of her guilt by discussing how we both contributed to the breakup.


----------



## sandc

I would not be surprised if at some point during the D process she approaches you with the possibility of R. Or even afterwards. I do think you will have the satisfaction of telling her NO one day. Bonus points if you're being doted on by your new girlfriend.


----------



## happyman64

Yankee99 said:


> No worries, R is out of the question. Although I admit I would have liked to have her in that frame of mind as we went through the negotiations.
> 
> I also wanted to be able to tell her no if she came crawling back. But after spending 5 minutes on the phone with her the other night, I don't think that will ever happen. Not sure what she wanted to "talk" about it was either just her exploring a plan B or her trying to shed some of her guilt by discussing how we both contributed to the breakup.


And until she owns the affair and puts her big girl panties on you keep the conversation on track about the divorce, finances or the kid.

Be cause any other topic is a waste of your time.

Of course she wants to alleviate her guilt.

She cheated. She is confused about her sexual orientation. She is alone.

It sucks to be her. And you cannot fix her issues. Those are her issues.
You sound good.

Do not let her confuse you or make you over think the outcome of your marriage.

All you can control is where your life heads now.

And there is nothing wrong with keeping the divorce amicable. $$$$ and a kid warrant a amicable divorce.

Just make sure she keeps up with her responsibilities.

HM


----------



## Lostinthought61

are you still going to out the OW, once the dust has settled


----------



## Yankee99

happyman64 said:


> And until she owns the affair and puts her big girl panties on you keep the conversation on track about the divorce, finances or the kid.
> 
> Be cause any other topic is a waste of your time.
> 
> Of course she wants to alleviate her guilt.
> 
> She cheated. She is confused about her sexual orientation. She is alone.
> 
> It sucks to be her. And you cannot fix her issues. Those are her issues.
> You sound good.
> 
> Do not let her confuse you or make you over think the outcome of your marriage.
> 
> All you can control is where your life heads now.
> 
> And there is nothing wrong with keeping the divorce amicable. $$$$ and a kid warrant a amicable divorce.
> 
> Just make sure she keeps up with her responsibilities.
> 
> HM


Thanks dude, you hit the nail on the head, my therapist made a lot of these points as well. 

Not to get off topic too much, but my therapist is pretty high on Albert Ellis, lots of books and videos available, I really like his "rational" approach to therapy. I think it appeals to men especially.


----------



## Yankee99

Xenote said:


> are you still going to out the OW, once the dust has settled


Its still an option on the table and an unmentioned negotiating chip my stbxw is probably aware of. 

It is hard to get the idea of exposure out of my head, doing it after divorce would be purely for the satisfaction of revenge, it is something I am trying to put off thinking about for now, though. Trying to stay focused on making D as smooth as possible.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Your stbxw claims she is a lesbian but only for the OW. Yet she slept with an ex-bf. Why ??? Did she give you a reason for this ? Is she part time lesbian and part time conventional cheater ?

Don't understand why she slept with another man who already has a gf?


----------



## tdwal

Yankee99 said:


> Its still an option on the table and an unmentioned negotiating chip my stbxw is probably aware of.
> 
> It is hard to get the idea of exposure out of my head, doing it after divorce would be purely for the satisfaction of revenge, it is something I am trying to put off thinking about for now, though. Trying to stay focused on making D as smooth as possible.


It would not be for revenge, you would be letting OWH know whats going on in his marriage. He has a right to know that his wife is a cheater. How would you have felt if you were in the reverse situation.


----------



## Chaparral

Making someone suffer the consequences of their actions is not revenge, its called justice. Frankly, I have no idea what to make of a person that would walk away letting the person that destroyed their marriage live happily ever after.


----------



## Yankee99

manfromlamancha said:


> Your stbxw claims she is a lesbian but only for the OW. Yet she slept with an ex-bf. Why ??? Did she give you a reason for this ? Is she part time lesbian and part time conventional cheater ?
> 
> Don't understand why she slept with another man who already has a gf?


Who knows. Its really not my problem. 

She was VERY cavalier about sex with the ex-bf. Like psychologically disordered cavalier. Like I was asking her about having a drink with another guy. My guess is she was looking for a plan B, exploring the field after dropping all the weight and possibly trying to move the OW in some way. stbxw like I said has gone off the deep end and their is no rationality or reason that I can see.

Its not my problem to figure out, the energy I put into trying to figure it out was totally counter productive. Just trying to move on and control what I can control.


----------



## Yankee99

Chaparral said:


> Making someone suffer the consequences of their actions is not revenge, its called justice. Frankly, I have no idea what to make of a person that would walk away letting the person that destroyed their marriage live happily ever after.


Not disagreeing, like I said I am struggling with it. The fact that I haven't exposed yet is to my advantage. Exposure if there is a chance of R makes perfect sense. Otherwise it is just powder to be kept dry if needed. Then once the war is over, who knows?

What will I do after D? Honestly I don't know. I will deal with it at that time. But yes, the words of justice and wanting OW husband to know to get tested etc has been in my mind.


----------



## Yankee99

I am hoping this will be behind me in a couple months


----------



## spanz

I would disagree with the others here. She is obviously interested in exploring lesbian sex. A lot of women are bi or lesbian. The Bi ones can make excellent wives and mothers....just need to have some same sex fun with their own sex once in a great while. You two obviously need to communicate more, and totally truthfully. If she wants to see this woman...try to cut her some slack and let her go. But she can not be sneaking around, or lying to you about it....that is cheating. Try to work out these issues, set up some rules, and see how it goes. See if it is enough for her, and if you can handle it. If so...you can still have an excellent marriage with a now much hornier wife. good luck mate


----------



## happyman64

spanz said:


> I would disagree with the others here. She is obviously interested in exploring lesbian sex. A lot of women are bi or lesbian. The Bi ones can make excellent wives and mothers....just need to have some same sex fun with their own sex once in a great while. You two obviously need to communicate more, and totally truthfully. If she wants to see this woman...try to cut her some slack and let her go. But she can not be sneaking around, or lying to you about it....that is cheating. Try to work out these issues, set up some rules, and see how it goes. See if it is enough for her, and if you can handle it. If so...you can still have an excellent marriage with a now much hornier wife. good luck mate


Spanz
There is only a few issues with your post.

His wife already cheated.
His wife is a liar.
His wife has been sneaking around for some time.
His wife does not know what the heck she is. Bi? Les? Straight?

So bright now she cannot be classified as a " horny" wife, just a "wayward" wife.

That does not leave much for the OP to work with does it.

HM


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

spanz said:


> I would disagree with the others here. She is obviously interested in exploring lesbian sex. A lot of women are bi or lesbian. The Bi ones can make excellent wives and mothers....just need to have some same sex fun with their own sex once in a great while.


 LOL. They make great wives if the Husband is cool with it. If you are married to be in a monogamous relationship they make terrible wives.



> If she wants to see this woman...try to cut her some slack and let her go.


 Why does he need to compromise his belief of monogamy to appease her? 



> But she can not be sneaking around, or lying to you about it....that is cheating.


 It's still cheating if there is no secrecy, especially if you know your spouse doesn't approve. 


> If so...you can still have an excellent marriage with a now much hornier wife. good luck mate


How would it be an excellent marriage, if he acquiesces to her cheating because most women are bi or lesbian?

Bi-sexuality isn't like a husband going to see a "chick flick" when he'd rather sit home and watch football.


----------



## Yankee99

Hey all, as promised, I wanted to keep you all updated.

In spite of some detractors, NOT exposing has worked to my advantage so far. stbxw head is so far in the clouds that close family friends who know her well are concerned she might be in a manic state (it runs in her family).

Long story short, she is so distracted by the affair that I am about to finalize the divorce details, and they are very favorable to me. I used her distraction, and predilection for short term gain to my advantage and things are looking good for me at this point.

After everything is final, I will re-assess, but will continue to do what is in my best interest and the interest of my child.

In my case, where R was ruled out very early on, using the affair to my advantage has worked. I hope others read this and know that this could be possible for them as well if they are in my situation.


----------



## weightlifter

Did you ever figure out PA part started roughly when? 

I remember you well. So ya bought her alimony out? Good job. Using fog against a cheater... wise. I see your state has reasonably fast D. Some... 1 year ++++.


----------



## CASE_Sensitive

Just wondering if you child has been exposed to the O/W?


----------



## Chaparral

Are you going to tell the OW husband now?


----------



## Yankee99

Its over. No alimony. I keep my house and assets. Not liable for her debts. 50/50 custody and minimal child support.

I used the fog against her. Best yet, I STILL have risk of exposure as a tool to protect my child. This other woman wants no part of being outed. 

I was unable to read a lot of the other threads here, it brought back bad memories, but I feel I have moved on. This is largely due to good therapy, specifically cognitive/behavioral therapy, I can reccommend it.

To all, your posts have been helpful in getting me through this. 

For the heavy posters, you have been helpful as well. I mean this most respectfully when I say, maybe its time to move on at some point. Don't let the wrongs committed against you or your divorces define your lives. I know if it was me, I could not be on here all the time and heal/move on as I need to.

Just offering something to think about, I sincerely mean no disrespect.

Every one of these cases is different, for me using this affair against my now EX wife worked. The results speak for themselves. At this point I almost, ALMOST feel sorry for her. Her crazy spending has continued unabated, I won't be there to bail her out any more. I put the child support on direct deposit so there won't be any "can I get it early this week and pay you back blah blah blah"

She also claimed about 2 months ago that the OW was getting divorced. That she had chosen her over her husband. Well, family court records are public in my state, no divorce has been filed. Old lesbian stretching out some steady action from someone way younger, that's all this is. I will have some measure of satisfaction when it falls down on her, but now I really just don't care that much. I am more concerned with finally setting up my online dating profiles and getting back out there.

I will stick around for a bit to answer questions for anyone curious. Best of luck to all of you. Live life, don't let your exes define you.

And yes, PA did start at least by the time I posted if not earlier. So for those of you wondering if your spouse is cheating, they probably are. Take action and control your fate.


----------



## tom67

Good to hear making the best of a sh!t sandwich.
Now go on the prowl:lol:
When you are ready just kidding.


----------



## Ripper




----------



## sammy7111

your going to leave the other guy in the fog


----------



## GusPolinski

Yankee99 said:


> Its over. No alimony. I keep my house and assets. Not liable for her debts. 50/50 custody and minimal child support.
> 
> I used the fog against her. Best yet, I STILL have risk of exposure as a tool to protect my child. This other woman wants no part of being outed.
> 
> I was unable to read a lot of the other threads here, it brought back bad memories, but I feel I have moved on. This is largely due to good therapy, specifically cognitive/behavioral therapy, I can reccommend it.
> 
> To all, your posts have been helpful in getting me through this.
> 
> For the heavy posters, you have been helpful as well. I mean this most respectfully when I say, maybe its time to move on at some point. Don't let the wrongs committed against you or your divorces define your lives. I know if it was me, I could not be on here all the time and heal/move on as I need to.
> 
> Just offering something to think about, I sincerely mean no disrespect.
> 
> Every one of these cases is different, for me using this affair against my now EX wife worked. The results speak for themselves. At this point I almost, ALMOST feel sorry for her. Her crazy spending has continued unabated, I won't be there to bail her out any more. I put the child support on direct deposit so there won't be any "can I get it early this week and pay you back blah blah blah"
> 
> She also claimed about 2 months ago that the OW was getting divorced. That she had chosen her over her husband. Well, family court records are public in my state, no divorce has been filed. Old lesbian stretching out some steady action from someone way younger, that's all this is. I will have some measure of satisfaction when it falls down on her, but now I really just don't care that much. I am more concerned with finally setting up my online dating profiles and getting back out there.
> 
> I will stick around for a bit to answer questions for anyone curious. Best of luck to all of you. Live life, don't let your exes define you.
> 
> And yes, PA did start at least by the time I posted if not earlier. So for those of you wondering if your spouse is cheating, they probably are. Take action and control your fate.


Less than 6 months and 20 full pages from start to very advantageous finish. Now _that's_ f*cking pro.


----------



## happyman64

> Take action and control your fate.


Wise words Yankee and the only way to live life.

Congratulations and glad you are moving on.

HM


----------



## Pault

I for one am delighted this has worked out for you. You know why.

The past months have been incredible for you and in great credit youve maintained dignity throughout. 

I suppose keeping "the great reveal" to yourself is a big decision and I see the stratagy behind it. In truth, I would now have made that affair open to the other H. I agree that the other female enjoyed the chase and the initial capture. Now it's time for some new meat. 

keep you chin up and look after yourself and your famly. 
:smthumbup:


----------



## Chaparral

By not telling her husband, you have become part of their conspiracy. He has as much cause to despise you as he will your wife. You're playing him for your own gain. Beware the karma bus...............maybe its already struck.


----------



## happyman64

Chap

While I agree with you I also believe in "timing".

He can get the best divorce settlement now and then out her other woman and the affair after the divorce is final.

HM


----------



## Nucking Futs

happyman64 said:


> Chap
> 
> While I agree with you I also believe in "timing".
> 
> He can get the best divorce settlement now and then out her other woman and the affair after the divorce is final.
> 
> HM


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he has already gotten the best divorce settlement. It's already final, time to help out OWH.


----------



## GusPolinski

Nucking Futs said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he has already gotten the best divorce settlement. It's already final, time to help out OWH.


:iagree:


----------



## barbados

Nucking Futs said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he has already gotten the best divorce settlement. It's already final, time to help out OWH.



:iagree:


----------



## Acabado

Chaparral said:


> By not telling her husband, you have become part of their conspiracy. He has as much cause to despise you as he will your wife. You're playing him for your own gain. Beware the karma bus...............maybe its already struck.


Beyong the "timing", already brought by happyman it happens he did expose. He dismissed and asked to be left alone.
Sure he was being gaslightted but you can't force anyone to see the light.
He can expose now.. and still the odds are he will be gaslighted again as OP has no real undeniable evidence to put on the table. Aparently the young bisexual married AP has no intention to leave her BH for this delusional XWW.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Yankee99 said:


> Not disagreeing, like I said I am struggling with it. The fact that *I haven't exposed yet* is to my advantage. Exposure if there is a chance of R makes perfect sense. Otherwise it is just powder to be kept dry if needed. Then once the war is over, who knows?
> 
> What will I do after D? Honestly I don't know. I will deal with it at that time. But yes, the words of justice and wanting OW husband to know to get tested etc has been in my mind.





Yankee99 said:


> Hey all, as promised, I wanted to keep you all updated.
> 
> In spite of some detractors, *NOT exposing has worked to my advantage so far.* stbxw head is so far in the clouds that close family friends who know her well are concerned she might be in a manic state (it runs in her family).
> 
> Long story short, she is so distracted by the affair that I am about to finalize the divorce details, and they are very favorable to me. I used her distraction, and predilection for short term gain to my advantage and things are looking good for me at this point.
> 
> After everything is final, I will re-assess, but will continue to do what is in my best interest and the interest of my child.
> 
> In my case, where R was ruled out very early on, using the affair to my advantage has worked. I hope others read this and know that this could be possible for them as well if they are in my situation.





Yankee99 said:


> Its over. No alimony. I keep my house and assets. Not liable for her debts. 50/50 custody and minimal child support.
> 
> I used the fog against her. Best yet, *I STILL have risk of exposure as a tool* to protect my child. This other woman wants no part of being outed.
> 
> I was unable to read a lot of the other threads here, it brought back bad memories, but I feel I have moved on. This is largely due to good therapy, specifically cognitive/behavioral therapy, I can reccommend it.
> 
> To all, your posts have been helpful in getting me through this.
> 
> For the heavy posters, you have been helpful as well. I mean this most respectfully when I say, maybe its time to move on at some point. Don't let the wrongs committed against you or your divorces define your lives. I know if it was me, I could not be on here all the time and heal/move on as I need to.
> 
> Just offering something to think about, I sincerely mean no disrespect.
> 
> Every one of these cases is different, for me using this affair against my now EX wife worked. The results speak for themselves. At this point I almost, ALMOST feel sorry for her. Her crazy spending has continued unabated, I won't be there to bail her out any more. I put the child support on direct deposit so there won't be any "can I get it early this week and pay you back blah blah blah"
> 
> She also claimed about 2 months ago that the OW was getting divorced. That she had chosen her over her husband. Well, family court records are public in my state, no divorce has been filed. Old lesbian stretching out some steady action from someone way younger, that's all this is. I will have some measure of satisfaction when it falls down on her, but now I really just don't care that much. I am more concerned with finally setting up my online dating profiles and getting back out there.
> 
> I will stick around for a bit to answer questions for anyone curious. Best of luck to all of you. Live life, don't let your exes define you.
> 
> And yes, PA did start at least by the time I posted if not earlier. So for those of you wondering if your spouse is cheating, they probably are. Take action and control your fate.





Acabado said:


> Beyong the "timing", already brought by happyman it happens he did expose. He dismissed and asked to be left alone.
> Sure he was being gaslightted but you can't force anyone to see the light.
> He can expose now.. and still the odds are he will be gaslighted again as OP has no real undeniable evidence to put on the table. Aparently the young bisexual married AP has no intention to leave her BH for this delusional XWW.


As you can see by the 3 quotes above, all from the last two pages, he did not expose. You might be thinking of another thread.


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## Acabado

Nucking Futs said:


> As you can see by the 3 quotes above, all from the last two pages, he did not expose. You might be thinking of another thread.


You are right and I was mistaken. I did believe he exposed initialy, when he believed it wasn't a full blown EA-PA...


Yankee99 said:


> Hello all,
> It has been a trying few days for sure. The affair has been exposed, I will get into more details later.


... but he never exposed to BH, at work. Not even confronted OW, albeit she was aparently warned that OP "knew" so they toke things undeground while pretending she was getting away from further drama.

BH must be informed now. It's not right to be the only one in the dark in this four sides bussiness, unable to take informed decisions about his life.
OP already has what he wanted to get out the "smooth" divorce... time to do the right thing.


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