# Is it as over as I think?



## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

father of 4 (54). Got divorced in 2009 after my wife had an affair, and she wasn't in a place to try to work on anything. Her head was somewhere else. I got custody of my 4 kids, and raised them. 2 were 6, and the other two 11 and 12. Shortly after I met, or connected with a high school alum two years younger than me. I didn't know her, but I fell in love with her very slowly and cautiously. I know what people are going to say already- boy are you stupid- but here goes. She had told me that she had dated her husband through all of high school and college, never partied and was the valedictorian. All true. She then told me in a round about convoluted way that she got divorced because her husband worked too much, and didn't have any time for her....The truth came out in pieces...She had gone away to a family reunion(his side) and her husband got drunk and went to bed early. She hung out with his cousins etc...no mention of what went on. Next day someone has to drive a cousin to the airport, and she gets elected. Husband too hung over. They drive, Have conversation, etc, and "a hug goodbye was not just a hug" She felt something. (I already feel so finG stupid). She continues a phone relationship with him, her husband taps the phones and hears a lot of sex talk etc and they divorce. SHE ENDS UP dating him, him living in her house for 10 plus years with her 2 little kids a mile from her ex. Horrid story, unless you met her. So sweet, so kind, compassionate, honest...well, maybe not. 

I took it very slow. I had been through an ugly divorce. Very ugly, and she both helped me and watched my ex abuse everyone. We vowed to be faithful, but not marry. I gave her a ring, as a promise to stay together. forever She fell in love quickly. We had a great relationship for 5 years. I had dated a lot, been married etc, and when I say this relationship was the best I mean by a MILE. Many miles. after 5 years, She took a new job and worked over 100 hours some weeks, traveling up to 5 days a week, and the relationship cooled, but it was still great and I knew I could always count on her. She was supposed to move in permanently but never did. Always an excuse, when this one goes to school, when that one goes, etc. She did stay over a lot, but this always bothered me. Never sold her house, changed her address, license, mail, etc. Did not "move in". Although she claims she did.

My kids adored her, but my oldest girl started to get jealous and try to get her in trouble with me constantly. SO also seemed to have issues of jealousy toward my oldest daughter as well. There was always a rub. It grew into a huge problem so when my daughter graduated college and moved home, SO left and went to her beach house an hour and a half away. recipe for disaster. I knew it, and I predicted it. she worked a lot and i visited when i could. She rarely came home. We have been together almost 12 years now, and with the twins going off to college this past september, I believed it was OUR Time! Finally. I asked her to go away for her birthday in sept, she didn't want to. I thought that was very weird. She has been starting fights constantly for a few months at least, about nothing, and acting different. less intimate, hugging, etc...I had a scheduled trip to go on this late Oct/early Nov., and what do you know, she started a GIANT fight right before I left. GIANT, about Nothing. For no reason and about the past and decisions we made together she now resents, and she went to the meanest places she's ever gone(my ex). I was floored. She's never been a yeller but has developed this 'Im going to say the meanest sh** I can when I'm upset to get you mad. She even said "you want out of this relationship but don't have the balls to do it" I don't. I LOVE her to the ends of the earth. That has Never changed. While I was gone all i could think about was her. I sent her messages but she never replied. She sent me an email(weird) "I need to get coats from your house". She also texted my son, my best friend's wife, my mom and another friend "when is he coming back" but never asked me. I didn't know any of this, but had a serious gut instinct kick in when I was away and immediately came home. I f I'm being honest I had some signs over the past few months and they all started eating at me. I drove from Iowa to RI, to her house and she said this relationship has to end. I was pretty surprised but also not based on the recent crazy arguments we had had. I said I respect that, but I came here to look you in the eye and ask is there another guy. Her reply "yes but not on that level", then she started spewing a bunch of stuff about "meeting a lot of people guys and girls' and nothing physical, "get a lie detector test". I said no need for that, just go get me your phone. Her reply "Im not going to do that it would break your heart" We talked for a couple hours, she screamed and yelled and deflected from the elephant in the room as much as she could. I stayed calm and when about to leave I said, its been 11 1/2 years, I think you owe me the truth about the guy. she stared into space, her eyes welled up with tears and she said "i don't want this to be my legacy" and stopped. I said like because you did this before? She acted confused and started talking about a ton of other rubbish I redirected her and she pretended to not remember even saying it. It had been one minute. She asked me to leave, and I did. A day or so later she sent me a text "I did nothing wrong and I am tired of your insinuations, they are further dividing us". I said you admitted it. She is disagreeing. She did. 100% I have been sick for weeks. I couldn't sleep or eat while I was away, I have lost 19 pounds, had cardiac irregularities, can't sleep..shaking from anxiety...just really sick. I trusted her to the ends of the earth. She won't call, text, or reply. when there has been any communication she Is trying to say I made this mistake or that(and I made some mistakes but not infidelity or stuff like that) for many years and she's angry with me. Also says I am trying to make this about a guy, and it isn't -it is about how much I suck I guess, or what I chose to do for the kids in 2015 or something Don't get me wrong, I have admitted and apologized for my mistakes, lack of judgment, anger, immature handling of situations etc. I am human- and I thought we were in Love.. Funny she just wrote me a long email about "what a great man you are" a few months ago...She says she Needs time to sort it out....with her own therapist, and she isn't communicating with me but suddenly is reaching out to my kids and mom........THOUGHTS TBH, I am heartbroken, truly heartbroken. I trusted her, and I still love her, and I wanted our future together- to the end. I can't imagine this is just how abruptly our story just ends. Way too much good and way too many years of raising kids together, trips all over the place, vacations, and the best intimacy I have ever experienced. Im sick


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

crushed2x said:


> Is it over?



Yes, it's over. She did all the classic things that are done when a woman has more than one man in her life.
Focus on taking care of yourself and your kids.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You were in love and meant it to be forever. She may have been in love but only until someone else came along.


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## rugswept (May 8, 2019)

All this evasion to spend protracted periods of time with you may indicate this other arrangement is a total second life. And her aggressive push backs and pseudo fights (the fake ones she starts) indicate it's not possible for her to get away from the other whatever it is. 

You are going through torture. Only you can end that. She's not going to end that. It's up to you to take care of you without all the self destructive stuff. As long as you are tethered to this woman, it appears you are going to be in a combative mostly distant relationship. 

For now, just go. If she's meant to come back, she will. IMHO any return to you is because the other gig didn't work out and she's better off with you until there's some other deal and then she'd go back to what you have now.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

crushed2x said:


> father of 4 (54). Got divorced in 2009 after my wife had an affair, and wasn't; in a place to try to work on anything. Her head was somewhere else. I got custody of my 4 kids, and raised them. 2 were 6, and the other two 11 and 12. Shortly after I met or connected with a high school alum two years younger than me. I didn't know her, but I fell in love with her very slowly and cautiously. I know what people are going to say already- boy are you stupid- but here goes. She had told me that she had dated her husband through all of high school and college, never partied and was the valedictorian. All true. She then told me in a round about convoluted way that she got divorced because her husband worked too much, and didn't have any time for her....She had gone away to a family reunion(his side) and her husband got drunk and went to bed. She hung out with his cousins etc...Next dy someone has to drive a cousin to the airport, and she gets elected. Husband too drunk. Have conversation, etc, and "a hug goodbye was not just a hug" She felt something. (I already feel so finG stupid). She continues a phone relationship with him, her husband taps the phones and hears a lot of sex talk and they divorce. SHE ENDS UP dating him, him living in her house for 10 plus years with her 2 little kids a mile from her ex. Horrid story, unless you met her. So sweet, so kind, compassionate, honest...well, maybe not.
> 
> I took it very slow. I had been through an ugly divorce. Very ugly, and she both helped me and watched my ex abuse everyone. We vowed to be faithful, but not marry. I gave her a ring, as a promise to stay together. forever She fell in love quickly. We had a great relationship for 5 years. I had dated a lot, been married etc, and when I say this relationship was the best I mean by a MILE. Many miles. after 5 years, She took a new job and worked over 100 hours some weeks, traveling up to 5 days a week, and the relationship cooled, but it was still great and I knew I could always count on her. She was supposed to move in permanently but never did. Always an excuse, when this one goes to school, when that one goes, etc. She did stay over a lot, but this always bothered me.
> 
> My kids adored her, but my oldest girl started to get jealous and try to get her in trouble with me constantly. There was always a rub. It grew into a huge problem so when my daughter graduated college and moved home, she left and went to her beach house an hour and a half away. recipe for disaster. she worked a lot and i visited when i could. She rarely came home. We have been together almost 12 years now, and with th twins going off to college this past september, I believed it was OUR Time! Finally. I asked her to go away for her birthday in sept, she didn't want to. I thought that was weird. She has been starting fight constantly for a few months at least, and acting different. I had a scheduled trip to go on this late Oct/early Nov., and what do you know, she started a GIANT fight right before I left. GIANT, about Nothing. For no reason and about the past and decisions we made together she now resents, and she went to the meanest places she's ever gone(my ex). I was floored. She's never been a yeller but has developed this 'Im going to say the meanest sh** I can when Im upset to get you mad. She even said "you want out of this relationship but don't have the balls to do it" I don't I LOVE her to the ends of the earth. That has Never changed. While I was gone all i could think about was her. I sent her messages but she never replied. She sent me a message "I need to get coats from your house when are you coming back". She also texted my son, my best friend's wife, my mom and another friend "when is he coming back" but never asked me. I didn't know any of this, but ghad a serious gut instinct kick in when I was away and immediately came home. I drove from Iowa to RI, to her house and she said this relationship has to end. I said I respect that, but I came here to look you in the eye and ask is there another guy. Her reply "yes but not on that level", then she started spewing a bunch of stuff about "meeting a lot of people guys and girls' and nothing physical, "get a lie detector test". I said no need for that, just go get me your phone. Her reply "Im not going to do that it would break your heart" We talked for a couple hours, she screamed and yelled and deflected from the elephant in the room as much as she could. I stayed calm and when about to leave I said, its been 11 1/2 years, I think you owe me the truth about the guy. she stared into space, her eyes welled up with tears and she said "i don't want this to be my legacy" and stopped. I said like because you did this before? She acted confused and started talking about a ton of other rubbish I redirected her and she pretended to not remember saying it. It had been one minute. She asked me to leave, and I did. A day or so later she sent me a text "I did nothing wrong and I am tired of your insinuations, they are further dividing us". I said you admitted it. She is disagreeing. I have been sick for weeks. I couldn't sleep or eat while I was away, I have lost 19 pounds, had cardiac irregularities, can't sleep..shaking from anxiety...just really sick. I trusted her to the ends of the earth. She won't call, text, or reply. when there has been any communication she Is trying to say I made this mistake or that(and I made some mistakes but not infidelity or stuff like that) for many years and she's angry with me. Also says I am trying to make this about a guy, and it isn't -it is about how much I suck I guess, or what I chose to do for the kids in 2015 or something Don't get me wrong, I have admitted and apologized for my mistakes, lack of judgment, anger, immature handling of situations etc. I am human- and I thought we were in Love.. Funny she just wrote me a long email about "what a great man you are" a few months ago...She says she Needs time to sort it out....with her own therapist, and she isn't communicating with me but suddenly is reaching out to my kids and mom........THOUGHTS TBH, I am heartbroken, truly heartbroken. I trusted her, and I still love her, and I anted our future together. I can't imagine this is just how abruptly our story just ends. Way too much good and way too many years of raising kids together, trips all over the place, vacations, and the best intimacy I have ever experienced. Im sick


Sorry this has happened. It is not unusual for a man to gloss over past infidelity, attributing it to some bogus outside factor. I did this,mas well. In reality, it is an indication of one's s hubris, to some extent. I rationalized it with my wife and( here's the hubris component), figured she would not do it to someone as great as me etc. 
After reading thousands of infidelity stories, and speaking with hundreds of other betrayed men, I feel pretty comfortable saying that a history of infidelity of any sort( either a cheating spouse or as an OW to a married or committed guy), should immediately disqualify a woman from consideration as a partner.
But, it is water under the bridge for you and me, and you are already acknowledging the error. As I said, it is not an uncommon one, due to hubris, the KISA deal, and socialization of men failing to educate them to the true nature of women( not all, I know. But hypergamy etc.)
So, you are mid 50's? I am 67. I have had one serious girlfriend since my divorce 15 years ago. It lasted 9 years and we parted as friends. But, once I found out through her telling me she had once had an affair with a married man(she told me this 8 years in), I bailed. We still talk but I lost respect for her.
I think, after the shock wears off, the grief subsides, and the trauma is not so acute, you will be alright. You have 4 kids, and they can be a great source of joy( and pain, too. One of mine is a heroin addict, long term. Just a matter of time etc, but I still have hope for whatever reason).
Your girlfriend, now X, is just not a good person. Simplistic, eh? But , it is true. The recent stuff, which, undoubtedly, indicates cheating plus her history ( and, believe me, you know the tip of the iceberg((cynical, eh?)) ) is a good indicator of who/what she is. Do not doubt yourself on this.
Take it easy. You will not die from this. The trauma is great, and you may not be able to see this, but you can have a good life going forward. Life is never all,easy and happy for anyone. I think life is full of pain and hardship interspersed with times of joy and happiness. It is this way for all of us, despite outward appearances of having it all made.
I feel for you. This is a big loss. But, despite the suffering, please put this miscreant in the rearview mirror.
You and I learned a valuable but painful lesson. Have a meaningful life going forward. Enjoy the parts you can, and accept that life is really hard and seldom fair. Again, glad you have kids.


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

I'm asking everyone looking for a different answer. I just can't believe it. Not her. My ex, ok. My girl...just no


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

crushed2x said:


> I'm asking everyone looking for a different answer. I just can't believe it. Not her. My ex, ok. My girl...just no


If you're asking if she'll come back to you, she probably will, but only long enough to find somebody else.
If she thought you were really the best that she could get for pleasure, she would be faithful. She views you as good enough to be a port of safety in between her trying to find somebody better.

All we can do is tell you, based on our experiences, on what is going on. It's up to you to do with the information as you wish. Nobody here is going to criticize you if you are willing to try and outwait her ability to find new men.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Send her this in two separate texts:

“Cheaters cheat; that’s what and who you are, and that’s what you do. It is and will forever be your legacy.”

“We’re done. I’m so happy I didn’t marry you. Don’t bother contacting me again.”

And then block her everywhere. Never contact her again. If there’s anything of hers left at your place, pack it up and ship it to her.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

crushed2x said:


> I'm asking everyone looking for a different answer. I just can't believe it. Not her. My ex, ok. My girl...just no


Yep.

You got duped. Just read the terrain for what it is and drive accordingly.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

crushed2x said:


> I'm asking everyone looking for a different answer. I just can't believe it. Not her. My ex, ok. My girl...just no


What you have described is fairly conclusive. I have been through this twice, as well. Infidelity is pretty common, fairly widespread and pretty much equally distributed by gender. It is ,really, not that uncommon to be on the recieving end more than once, statistically. You acknowledge( again, like me) being aware of a history of cheating. It is really quite doubtful you know the true extent of her history. 
One thing you might want to look at is whether you have qualities that are appealing to a narcissist or sociopath or bordeline( the Cluster B personality disorders). If you are nice, trusting, a bit naive etc, the disordered are drawn to you. They target you.
Your girlfriend has exhibited some behaviors( not just the cheating), consistent with a personality disorder. First, she cheated in th he past with her husband's cousin. That is fairly egregious and shows a clear lack of empathy( one of the hallmarks of the disordered).
She has gas lighted you, another red flag for lack of empathy. She is somewhat sadistic. One of your kids intuitively recognized what she is( not uncommon, particularly for female kids as it relates to other women.
I had to really educate myself on the red flags for narcissists. I was still very fit, making good dough, relatively handsome at your age and was approached by a fair number of predatory women. Start learning the signs. Read about personality disorders. They are far more common than we think or than some of the literature suggests due to the disordered seldom being diagnosed ( they avoid counseling like the plague).


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

I am a realistic man. I understand and respect the direct responses, and that is what I believe too. But I am looking for all opinions, and maybe personal accounts of a similar nature that went differently. This isn't going to go differently but I'm not far removed from the shock, sickness, anxiety, palpitations, fear and sobbing...so. 

In therapy this week, I told her you looked me in the eye and admitted it, TWICE, and let me be clear, I am not 90% sure, I am 100% sure. She sobbed and sobbed and deflected and said I was 1000% wrong. She said you want this to be about a guy. You want this to be that Im not strong enough to leave you on my own. You're wrong. I think she is trying t buy time so when it gets found out by more people, that we have been broken up for a while and it fits her narrative that she wasn't cheating, and it doesn't "become her legacy". She is really a sweet girl. Not *****y in any way at all. Easy to get along with, warm and affectionate. Our relationship went off the rails because of my daughter, and fights we had about her, and there were some other things as well I own, but I thought this was forever, even just a month ago.. On this forum I guess it is foolish to say I just can't explain how completely screwed up I am over this. I'm broken. You people know, some more than once(me)


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I am very sorry, but she cheated on her husband and now she has cheated on you. Its a pattern.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

crushed2x said:


> I am a realistic man. I understand and respect the direct responses, and that is what I believe too. But I am looking for all opinions, and maybe personal accounts of a similar nature that went differently. This isn't going to go differently but I'm not far removed from the shock, sickness, anxiety, palpitations, fear and sobbing...so.
> 
> In therapy this week, I told her you looked me in the eye and admitted it, TWICE, and let me be clear, I am not 90% sure, I am 100% sure. She sobbed and sobbed and deflected and said I was 1000% wrong. She said you want this to be about a guy. You want this to be that Im not strong enough to leave you on my own. You're wrong. I think she is trying t buy time so when it gets found out by more people, that we have been broken up for a while and it fits her narrative that she wasn't cheating, and it doesn't "become her legacy". She is really a sweet girl. Not *****y in any way at all. Easy to get along with, warm and affectionate. Our relationship went off the rails because of my daughter, and fights we had about her, and there were some other things as well I own, but I thought this was forever, even just a month ago.. On this forum I guess it is foolish to say I just can't explain how completely screwed up I am over this. I'm broken. You people know, some more than once(me)


Please, whatever you do, do not lay any of this on your kid. My second XW tried to drive a wedge between me and one of my sons(her stepson who could, in retrospect, see her for what she is). There is a reason that so many traditional fairy tales describe the archetype of the evilmstep mother( think Hansel and Gretel, Snow White, Cinderella, etc).
By your own admission, you brought a woman with a history of cheating with her husband's cousin in contact with your kid( I did the something similar with my two boys from my first marriage. My second wife's s physical appearance blinded me to what she is. Made me ignore a clear sign of her true nature.
Ask yourself this, honestly: is it really possible for a kind, compassionate, empathetic woman Tom cheat on her husband with one of his relatives?. With distance and hindsight, the answer will,be clear to you. It is over the top egregious, as is a person now having yet a second affair( that you know of).
And, what type of brazeness and lack of empathy allows her to attempt to gaslight you now such that in your traumatized state you will question your perceptions. You have no history of auditory hallucinations, I presume.


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> I am very sorry, but she cheated on her husband and now she has cheated on you. Its a pattern.


Yes. It IS HER LEGACY, and it blows my mind and breaks my heart. We promised each other, we may break up but we'll never cheat. Never.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Why in hell's name do you keep referring to her as "a sweet girl" when she is the furthest thing from being a sweet girl??? She is a a deceitful, lying serial cheater who wil stomp on the heart of the one who loves her with no empathy, and then to continue the pain will continue to gaslight the guy. She has done this before. At best she is an accomplished actor.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

crushed2x said:


> I am a realistic man. I understand and respect the direct responses, and that is what I believe too. But I am looking for all opinions, and maybe personal accounts of a similar nature that went differently. This isn't going to go differently but I'm not far removed from the shock, sickness, anxiety, palpitations, fear and sobbing...so.


It sounds as though you are asking members to give you hope. To come up with some believable scenarios where your girl is really the angel you believe her to be. I'm sorry, but that is not the type of advice that will actually help you. 

Reread your own first post and ask yourself if this sounds like a woman who loves and respects you?

Have you had the talk with your daughter regarding interfering in your relationships? She is now an adult and doesn't get a pass just because she's daddy's girl.


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

Blondilocks said:


> It sounds as though you are asking members to give you hope. To come up with some believable scenarios where your girl is really the angel you believe her to be. I'm sorry, but that is not the type of advice that will actually help you.
> 
> Reread your own first post and ask yourself if this sounds like a woman who loves and respects you?
> 
> Have you had the talk with your daughter regarding interfering in your relationships? She is now an adult and doesn't get a pass just because she's daddy's girl.


I agree. She does not respect me and has gone all out offensive gaslighting whatever you want to characterize it as, certainly it is not humility, apologetic, its all self preservation. Worrying about her blessed reputation.

I have had many discussions with my adult daughter about her behavior. I made her move out in hopes my SO would move back in this past September. I WAS planning a Wedding, picking out music, locations etc and wanted to have that talk when we were to go away for her birthday 9/25. Its just so unreal to have been so duped. I wish I knew how long this has been going on. I will find out, but its going to take some work(yes I want to know for me). I just can't stop thinking how shocked I am. I will never get over this blindside. That bothers me because she can move on(has) but I, who had trust issues to begin with feel like I will never find a suitable partner again. And Im not 30. Fit, attractive, financially in a good spot, but I don't ever want to start dating again. Too much BS for me.


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

manfromlamancha said:


> Why in hell's name do you keep referring to her as "a sweet girl" when she is the furthest thing from being a sweet girl??? She is a a deceitful, lying serial cheater who wil stomp on the heart of the one who loves her with no empathy, and then to continue the pain will continue to gaslight the guy. She has done this before. At best she is an accomplished actor.


For most f our relationship she was sweet, and warm, and kind. That has all changed over the past year or so. Maybe this kind of **** has been going on for longer or with more people than I know. She was so theatrical in the therapy session last week I found it embarrassing for her. Dramatic voice the entire time, giving bits of history with no context meant to make me look bad, sobbing, it was awful, and a great percentage of it was simply untrue, or stated in such a one sided way that the counselor would think it was true. Thankfully I got to clarify much of the misleading stuff


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Blondilocks said:


> It sounds as though you are asking members to give you hope. To come up with some believable scenarios where your girl is really the angel you believe her to be. I'm sorry, but that is not the type of advice that will actually help you.
> 
> Reread your own first post and ask yourself if this sounds like a woman who loves and respects you?
> 
> Have you had the talk with your daughter regarding interfering in your relationships? She is now an adult and doesn't get a pass just because she's daddy's girl.


I would step back for a good long time before criticizing the daughter. Remember, this is a woman with a history of not just cheating, but doing it with her then husband's cousin. Then bringing that lowlife into her own kids home( the greatest threat to kids is from the boyfriend of a single mom, statistically).

It may well be that the daughter picked up on what this woman really is, since the daughter was not influenced by limerance and sexually generated dopamine. Seriously, can ther be any doubt that a serial cheater like this woman was sending out clues as to her true nature? 
My second XW was , pretty much, a Victoria's Secret model looking type. I was oblivious to her nature for a while. Not so my kids.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> It sounds as though you are asking members to give you hope. To come up with some believable scenarios where your girl is really the angel you believe her to be. I'm sorry, but that is not the type of advice that will actually help you.


Exactly.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Most affairs, the vast majority, go undetected forever. Much like murders, most of which remain unsolved. 
You now know of two for certain with this woman. What are the odds, particularly assuming she is roughly in your age bracket ( and even if not), that you just happen to know about the only two times she has been involved in this type of thing?
In my case, with both my XWs, I had formed relationships with their families and friends which were very close. They liked me a lot and were aghast at the cheating, although, apparently, not surprised. Many of these people came forward later to tell me of my XWs histories, which were far more extensive than the ones my XWs had coped to during courtship( done preemptively, as I was sure to have discovered the most blatant ones).
It was amazing. Siblings, friends, even in-law parents now came forward. Everyone had been reluctant before as they were fearful of interfering. 
Affairs are like the cockroaches you see when you first come into a room. If you see one, there are many more that remain hidden.
50 year old woman with two known affairs( one even being with her husband's cousin)? Only two, though? I'll lay odds and bet a year's salary there is a lot more to her history. Run.


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

yes I guess I am. I would like to know if anyone had a SO get emotionally involved, F up their relationship, get crazy mid life type of nuts and reel it back in and save the sinking ship. All sorts of scenarios are possible, and I hear you, this is pretty far fetched. I think we all know what happened. Yes I was looking for some dissenting opinions if any, if not I completely understand.


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> Most affairs, the vast majority, go undetected forever. Much like murders, most of which remain unsolved.
> You now know of two for certain with this woman. What are the odds, particularly assuming she is roughly in your age bracket ( and even if not), that you just happen to know about the only two times she has been involved in this type of thing?
> In my case, with both my XWs, I had formed relationships with their families and friends which were very close. They liked me a lot and were aghast at the cheating, although, apparently, not surprised. Many of these people came forward later to tell me of my XWs histories, which were far more extensive than the ones my XWs had coped to during courtship( done preemptively, as I was sure to have discovered the most blatant ones).
> It was amazing. Siblings, friends, even in-law parents now came forward. Everyone had been reluctant before as they were fearful of interfering.
> ...


Ouch. well said though


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You want to hear stories that will give you hope this can be fixed. That may happen now and then but a better relationship after reconciliation is difficult to achieve and takes years of work. Repeat, years. Only she knows exactly what happened but my guess is she found someone else and has been trying to decide if he’s worth breaking up with you over — or is he that serious — and she still doesn’t know. IOW, she doesn’t entirely consider you out of the picture yet because she may need to pull you back in. Proceed very cautiously.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

crushed2x said:


> For most f our relationship she was sweet, and warm, and kind. That has all changed over the past year or so. Maybe this kind of **** has been going on for longer or with more people than I know. She was so theatrical in the therapy session last week I found it embarrassing for her. Dramatic voice the entire time, giving bits of history with no context meant to make me look bad, sobbing, it was awful


Yep - seen that before. As you said - she puts on a good show. You need to see clearly now.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Openminded said:


> You want to hear stories that will give you hope this can be fixed. That may happen now and then but a better relationship after reconciliation is difficult to achieve and takes years of work. Repeat, years. Only she knows exactly what happened but my guess is she found someone else and has been trying to decide if he’s worth breaking up with you over — or is he that serious — and she still doesn’t know. IOW, she doesn’t entirely consider you out of the picture yet because she may need to pull you back in. Proceed very cautiously.


This.

There is another man, and it’s almost certainly physical. You have been betrayed for another man. Do you really want to tolerate that?

You are now plan-B. Do you really want to tolerate that?

Even if she decides to pick you (or her other man doesn’t want to commit), do you really want to accept that?

Your dignity as a man matters, don’t give it away over fear of losing something you’ve already lost.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Openminded said:


> You want to hear stories that will give you hope this can be fixed. That may happen now and then but a better relationship after reconciliation is difficult to achieve and takes years of work. Repeat, years. Only she knows exactly what happened but my guess is she found someone else and has been trying to decide if he’s worth breaking up with you over — or is he that serious — and she still doesn’t know. IOW, she doesn’t entirely consider you out of the picture yet because she may need to pull you back in. Proceed very cautiously.


Waywards don’t like losing options — especially their Plan B’s.

They’ll even engage in things like couples counseling to keep them on the line. 🤷🏻‍♂️


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

I’m not seeing anything here that tells me she’s sweet etc. And I’m saddened to hear that you threw your daughter under the bus for her.

I’m also saddened that she broke up another family. She cheated on her husband with her cousin. I can’t imagine how that was for him and the rest of the family, the implications would have been huge, and I imagine a lot of people would have sided with his cousin too. Wow, it’s astounding. And again, the pattern was repeated with you, it divided you and your daughter.

I also understand you’re looking for a happy ending. I think you’ll stay in this, given you accepted that type of person in the first place. Plenty of women on the outside write to murderers and rapists and marry them. 🤷🏻‍♀️ So, these things happen and I don’t see you moving on from her.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

The reason why I believe you will stay comes back to how you blame your daughter for her moving out because your daughter was jealous. I think your daughter was acting out because she sees her for what she is. I mean, look at cases where children are abused by step/biological parents. The kid rarely comes out and says it, but they find some way to fight against the dangerous person. You don’t seem at all concerned here, and largely blame your daughter. You chose wrong. I am aware of countless situations like this where a parent will blame the child for a relationship ending. YOUR DAUGHTER WAS A CHILD. You were the parent.

You made your daughter move out. Boy are you in so much shock, and have been for so long. I can’t really unpack this much, because I don’t see this ending favourably for anyone really.

How is this the best relationship you’ve ever had, by miles?


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Luckylucky said:


> The reason why I believe you will stay comes back to how you blame your daughter for her moving out because your daughter was jealous. I think your daughter was acting out because she sees her for what she is. I mean, look at cases where children are abused by step/biological parents. The kid rarely comes out and says it, but they find some way to fight against the dangerous person. You don’t seem at all concerned here, and largely blame your daughter. You chose wrong. I am aware of countless situations like this where a parent will blame the child for a relationship ending. YOUR DAUGHTER WAS A CHILD. You were the parent.
> 
> How is this the best relationship you’ve ever had, by miles?


There is a good chance the daughter saw the bad side of the woman in absence of the father, a wicked stepmother side.


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

crushed2x said:


> father of 4 (54). Got divorced in 2009 after my wife had an affair, and wasn't; in a place to try to work on anything. Her head was somewhere else. I got custody of my 4 kids, and raised them. 2 were 6, and the other two 11 and 12. Shortly after I met or connected with a high school alum two years younger than me. I didn't know her, but I fell in love with her very slowly and cautiously. I know what people are going to say already- boy are you stupid- but here goes. She had told me that she had dated her husband through all of high school and college, never partied and was the valedictorian. All true. She then told me in a round about convoluted way that she got divorced because her husband worked too much, and didn't have any time for her....She had gone away to a family reunion(his side) and her husband got drunk and went to bed. She hung out with his cousins etc...Next dy someone has to drive a cousin to the airport, and she gets elected. Husband too drunk. Have conversation, etc, and "a hug goodbye was not just a hug" She felt something. (I already feel so finG stupid). She continues a phone relationship with him, her husband taps the phones and hears a lot of sex talk and they divorce. SHE ENDS UP dating him, him living in her house for 10 plus years with her 2 little kids a mile from her ex. Horrid story, unless you met her. So sweet, so kind, compassionate, honest...well, maybe not.
> 
> I took it very slow. I had been through an ugly divorce. Very ugly, and she both helped me and watched my ex abuse everyone. We vowed to be faithful, but not marry. I gave her a ring, as a promise to stay together. forever She fell in love quickly. We had a great relationship for 5 years. I had dated a lot, been married etc, and when I say this relationship was the best I mean by a MILE. Many miles. after 5 years, She took a new job and worked over 100 hours some weeks, traveling up to 5 days a week, and the relationship cooled, but it was still great and I knew I could always count on her. She was supposed to move in permanently but never did. Always an excuse, when this one goes to school, when that one goes, etc. She did stay over a lot, but this always bothered me.
> 
> My kids adored her, but my oldest girl started to get jealous and try to get her in trouble with me constantly. There was always a rub. It grew into a huge problem so when my daughter graduated college and moved home, she left and went to her beach house an hour and a half away. recipe for disaster. she worked a lot and i visited when i could. She rarely came home. We have been together almost 12 years now, and with th twins going off to college this past september, I believed it was OUR Time! Finally. I asked her to go away for her birthday in sept, she didn't want to. I thought that was weird. She has been starting fight constantly for a few months at least, and acting different. I had a scheduled trip to go on this late Oct/early Nov., and what do you know, she started a GIANT fight right before I left. GIANT, about Nothing. For no reason and about the past and decisions we made together she now resents, and she went to the meanest places she's ever gone(my ex). I was floored. She's never been a yeller but has developed this 'Im going to say the meanest sh** I can when Im upset to get you mad. She even said "you want out of this relationship but don't have the balls to do it" I don't I LOVE her to the ends of the earth. That has Never changed. While I was gone all i could think about was her. I sent her messages but she never replied. She sent me a message "I need to get coats from your house when are you coming back". She also texted my son, my best friend's wife, my mom and another friend "when is he coming back" but never asked me. I didn't know any of this, but ghad a serious gut instinct kick in when I was away and immediately came home. I drove from Iowa to RI, to her house and she said this relationship has to end. I said I respect that, but I came here to look you in the eye and ask is there another guy. Her reply "yes but not on that level", then she started spewing a bunch of stuff about "meeting a lot of people guys and girls' and nothing physical, "get a lie detector test". I said no need for that, just go get me your phone. Her reply "Im not going to do that it would break your heart" We talked for a couple hours, she screamed and yelled and deflected from the elephant in the room as much as she could. I stayed calm and when about to leave I said, its been 11 1/2 years, I think you owe me the truth about the guy. she stared into space, her eyes welled up with tears and she said "i don't want this to be my legacy" and stopped. I said like because you did this before? She acted confused and started talking about a ton of other rubbish I redirected her and she pretended to not remember saying it. It had been one minute. She asked me to leave, and I did. A day or so later she sent me a text "I did nothing wrong and I am tired of your insinuations, they are further dividing us". I said you admitted it. She is disagreeing. I have been sick for weeks. I couldn't sleep or eat while I was away, I have lost 19 pounds, had cardiac irregularities, can't sleep..shaking from anxiety...just really sick. I trusted her to the ends of the earth. She won't call, text, or reply. when there has been any communication she Is trying to say I made this mistake or that(and I made some mistakes but not infidelity or stuff like that) for many years and she's angry with me. Also says I am trying to make this about a guy, and it isn't -it is about how much I suck I guess, or what I chose to do for the kids in 2015 or something Don't get me wrong, I have admitted and apologized for my mistakes, lack of judgment, anger, immature handling of situations etc. I am human- and I thought we were in Love.. Funny she just wrote me a long email about "what a great man you are" a few months ago...She says she Needs time to sort it out....with her own therapist, and she isn't communicating with me but suddenly is reaching out to my kids and mom........THOUGHTS TBH, I am heartbroken, truly heartbroken. I trusted her, and I still love her, and I anted our future together. I can't imagine this is just how abruptly our story just ends. Way too much good and way too many years of raising kids together, trips all over the place, vacations, and the best intimacy I have ever experienced. Im sick



It is plain that she has never been committed to you.

You were just a player in one compartment of her life.

Trust me, she had other compartments.

And now, well, how rude of you to try and upset her apple-cart.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

crushed2x said:


> I'm asking everyone looking for a different answer. I just can't believe it. Not her. My ex, ok. My girl...just no


She knew she was doing wrong, so she did the DARVO trick. What is DARVO?

She made her bad behaviour all about you.

Tell your family to block her. 

And I think you need counselling and a trip to your MD for some medical help.


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## gr8ful1 (Dec 3, 2016)

By chance did you ever contact her XH to ask him his side of the story? If not, if it would help to give you certainty now, perhaps you should. I bet your eyes would be opened….


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

gr8ful1 said:


> By chance did you ever contact her XH to ask him his side of the story? If not, if it would help to give you certainty now, perhaps you should. I bet your eyes would be opened….


No I would never do that. It has been a long time and I'm sure painful and personal


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

Luckylucky said:


> The reason why I believe you will stay comes back to how you blame your daughter for her moving out because your daughter was jealous. I think your daughter was acting out because she sees her for what she is. I mean, look at cases where children are abused by step/biological parents. The kid rarely comes out and says it, but they find some way to fight against the dangerous person. You don’t seem at all concerned here, and largely blame your daughter. You chose wrong. I am aware of countless situations like this where a parent will blame the child for a relationship ending. YOUR DAUGHTER WAS A CHILD. You were the parent.
> 
> You made your daughter move out. Boy are you in so much shock, and have been for so long. I can’t really unpack this much, because I don’t see this ending favourably for anyone really.
> 
> How is this the best relationship you’ve ever had, by miles?


Harsh, but I don't disagree. I made some choices that seemed clear at the time. My oldest son doesn't speak to my daughter because of what he saw her do to the people he cared about for years. I pushed her to move out after paying for college, and two years of her applying, and getting into grad school and deciding not to go. I got custody of four little kids and did my best to raise them every single day. There's no manual. I made decisions I thought were in everyones best interest, except usually mine. She was tough- to everyone, and had something going on, I believe BPD.

Why was it the best relationship I ever had? I have never felt more loved. Things just flowed. She was not high maintenance, just the opposite. She did unexpected nice things all the time, she gave a hug that could change your life, she came to my room every morning to lay on top of me naked, just to be close for a few minutes, I felt she would have taken a bullet for my kids, she was interested in everything I did, she loves dogs, she's humble, we had many friends in common, we went to the same high school, she looked at me like no one ever has, she held my hand, she was thoughtful, and could express herself, she was cute, silly, sexy as F. *We connected physically like in a spiritual way I have never experienced before*. She took care of me when I had surgery or got sick, she added a woman's touch around my home, she planned parties and events, she was a good cook and a selfless partner. She was so easy to travel with, but didn't expect you to do all the work. We visited many countries and god I just f'ing love her. Why go on, I am emotional now I don't know how to deal with each day. I can't eat or breathe and often cry. This is what makes it just impossible to believe she just went and started a new relationship. Pulled the rug out from under the guy she promised "to choose today and every day" Her words.


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

Luckylucky said:


> The reason why I believe you will stay comes back to how you blame your daughter for her moving out because your daughter was jealous. I think your daughter was acting out because she sees her for what she is. I mean, look at cases where children are abused by step/biological parents. The kid rarely comes out and says it, but they find some way to fight against the dangerous person. You don’t seem at all concerned here, and largely blame your daughter. You chose wrong. I am aware of countless situations like this where a parent will blame the child for a relationship ending. YOUR DAUGHTER WAS A CHILD. You were the parent.
> 
> You made your daughter move out. Boy are you in so much shock, and have been for so long. I can’t really unpack this much, because I don’t see this ending favourably for anyone really.
> 
> How is this the best relationship you’ve ever had, by miles?


I had three other kids in the household with far far different experiences. They all grew t love her deeply There ws never a sign of any type of aggression or violence, except- from my oldest girl toward everyone else.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

crushed2x said:


> She did unexpected nice things all the time


She did unexpected bad things too....

On a serious note I'm going to go with Borderline Personality Disorder. I had a GF like this for awhile, she treated me like a million bucks until she didn’t. When things get bad, they get really bad. It took you a long time to experience it because:

1. She didn't live with you.
2. She worked a lot.

Good luck with this.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

crushed2x said:


> Harsh, but I don't disagree. I made some choices that seemed clear at the time. My oldest son doesn't;t speak to my daughter because of what he saw her d to the people he cared about for years. I pushed her to move out after paying for college, and two years of her applying, and getting into grad school and deciding not to go. I got custody of four little kids and did my best to raise them every single day. There's no manual. I made decisions I thought were in everyones best interest, except usually mine. She was tough- to everyone, and had something going on, I believe BPD.
> 
> Why was it the best relationship I ever had? I have never felt more loved. Things just flowed. She was not high maintenance, just the opposite. She did unexpected nice things all the time, she gave a hug that could change your life, she came to my room every morning to lay on top of me naked, just to be close for a few minutes, she would have taken a bullet for my kids, she was interested in everything I did, she loves dogs, she's humble, we had many friends in common, we went to the same high school, she looked at me like no one ever has, she held my hand, she was thoughtful, and could express herself, she was cute, silly, sexy as F. *We connected physically like in a spiritual way I have never experienced before*. She took care of me when I had surgery or got sick, she added a woman's touch around my home, she planned parties and events, she was a good cook and a selfless partner. She was so easy to travel with, but didn't expect you to do all the work. We visited many countries and god I just f'ing love her. Why go on, I am emotional now I don't know how to deal with each day. I ca't eat or breathe and often cry.


The best way to say it is that the best manipulators put there can make it seem that you're their one and only, even if they are testing the waters in the meantime.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

Here is my input on your situation:

1. You need to sever all ties with this woman and gray rock her. She is a cancer. Make sure that all your family and friends know the real story from you. Let the cold, hard facts of the story be her legacy. She's a big girl. Actions have consequences.

2. Make amends with your Daughter. She may actually have been trying to tell you something back then. Remember, blood is thicker than water.

3. Take some time and really get your s**t sorted. Get some therapy. Get your picker fixed. Work on you. Redefine the new you. Be the person you want to be, not the pushover you present yourself as. It is much better to be alone on your own accord, than to be with someone who makes you feel alone. You can only be treated like crap with your own permission.

4. Your best path (as well as your best revenge) is to go out and be the best person that you can be and live the life you always wanted. Extract yourself from being the victim, and leave both #'s 1 and 2 in the dust, on the streets, where they belong.


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

Tdbo said:


> Here is my input on your situation:
> 
> 1. You need to sever all ties with this woman and gray rock her. She is a cancer. Make sure that all your family and friends know the real story from you. Let the cold, hard facts of the story be her legacy. She's a big girl. Actions have consequences.
> 
> ...


i don't know what grey rock means?

I agree with 1above entirely. I have told one friend and blown his mind, but I will tell my other close friends as time passes. My son is probably going to get mad at me for the "truth", and he trusts her implicitly and she's lying.......no idea how to handle that. I don't want to hurt him and I don't want her to lie to him. Life is hard and the kid hs been through enough. My wish would be that he would think on it for a long time, and point blank tell her- you watched my Grandfather do this, you saw what I went through with my own Mom- and I trusted you. She will lie, but I never lie to my kids. I would have no reason to tell them something untruthful that I know will hurt them. I love my boy way too much.

2 We have been doing better, both working at this. I told her about SO and she apologized for "her part" in that but the catch 22 is when I do better with her, my son gets mad says "i'm rewarding her bad behavior again" mad about 20 years of my decisions. so hard to get it right honestly. I love them all.

3 Getting therapy a lot right now. not sure how I get my picker fixed. I really thought I had this one nailed down as nearly perfect for the duration. I am FAR from a pushover. I have tried to respect everyones position in this mess that was created when I divorced. It wasn't my kids fault and I tried to give them the best. I hold anger, and suppress it fairly often and fairly well, but when I am attacked, I just shut down because I am afraid to inappropriately blow up. If you keep pushing, like the SO had been doing to try to get me to blow up and break up with her, I often can't help myself. i work on it every day, and think I manage well 99% of the time. "Better to be alone than with someone who makes you feel alone", is well said. She was away. She moved away. I begged for us to close the distance, buy or build our house together. I have told her I'm lonely for years...no changes. She may have had another life. Shut me off the security cam access, and told me I don't give her enough notice when I'm coming to see her. Weird. Like calling your wife and saying just want to give you a heads up I'm coming home.

4. Impossible to even think of right now. Hard to get off the couch and if it were up to me I'd sleep for a month. Dreading Thanksgiving etc... But I appreciate your point


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

crushed2x said:


> Why go on


You go on because you have four children and a life that is worth living to the fullest. This woman isn't the end all, be all and there is life outside of her. Adults or not, your children still need and want you to be present, happy, and healthy. 

For the holidays, can you make plans with your kids?


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

crushed2x said:


> i don't know what grey rock means?
> 
> I agree with 1above entirely. I have told one friend and blown his mind, but I will tell my other close friends as time passes. My son is probably going to get mad at me for the "truth", and he trusts her implicitly and she's lying.......no idea how to crack that
> 
> ...



This explains grey rock:









Grey Rock Method: What Is It and How Is It Used?


The grey rock method can be a valid alternative for protecting yourself from abuse, as it takes away what the narcissist needs and desires most, attention.




www.e-counseling.com





The Grey rock is one option for you.
Truly, I think the best option for your long term happiness and sanity is to unload her.
She cannot be trusted. She only cares about herself.
Sure, she may have tossed you some crumbs, once upon a time.
These "Crumbs" helped her to build the relationship that is now taking you down.
Your son is a smart young man. He is telling you the issue. You are much too passive. This carries over into your relationship with #2. Daughters are generally protective of their fathers. I still think that she was trying to send you a message, perhaps in the only way she knew how. Do the right thing towards your daughter and bring her back into the fold. Your son will come along in time.

Think of it this way, if you were told that you had cancer, and there was a malignant tumor in your chest, would you not want that removed?
In this case, your #2 is the tumor. Remove her.
Recover. Get well.
Move on. Learn from your mistakes.
Improve your plight in life.


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

bobert said:


> You go on because you have four children and a life that is worth living to the fullest. This woman isn't the end all, be all and there is life outside of her. Adults or not, your children still need and want you to be present, happy, and healthy.
> 
> For the holidays, can you make plans with your kids?


I am pretty beaten down. I have lost 19 pounds since 10/4. I am not ok physically or emotionally. can't process this yet, and I'm not much of a cook. The other problem here is my EXW has a big family, and they will certainly be doing something big(assuming without my son). That leaves me and him. My Mom just had surgery. Used to be SO and her Kids and Mom and an occasional kids friend. Prior to my parents divorce in 2005 it was 40+ people. My kids have been through a lot of difficult changes


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

I notice two things...

1. You blew past a red flag when you decided to start a relationship with a known and admitted cheater.

2. You didn't "mate guard" very well by allowing her to be traveling so much and working so much, that setup never helps a relationship.


The other guy is likely a co-worker, hence the long hours and traveling. The fact that she wouldn't give her phone up and its' contents "would break your heart" per her own admission is all you need to know.

It doesn't matter who he is, tell her to go be with him.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

crushed2x said:


> I am pretty beaten down. I have lost 19 pounds since 10/4. I am not ok physically or emotionally. can't process this yet, and I'm not much of a cook. The other problem here is my EXW has a big family, and they will certainly be doing something big(assuming without my son). That leaves me and him. My Mom just had surgery. Used to be SO and her Kids and Mom and an occasional kids friend. Prior to my parents divorce in 2003 it was 40+ people. My kids have been through a lot of difficult changes


This is the toughest period, the initial shock period. It is pretty brutal. You are on the "High Impact Infidelity Diet". Many go through this( I lost 47 lbs. from a fit, lean body in about 3 months. Folks thought I had cancer.).
Eat what you can. Exercise and hydrate. Easier said then done , but try.
I am 15 years post the second marriage discovery. And, my XW( both, actually), is a narcissist for sure. On some level, the cheating was a relief, my golden ticket out from an abuser. Yet, the betrayal still affected me. You are ,probably, not ready to accept or understand what many here can see and are telling you about. But you really, really dodged a bullet here. Does not reduce the initial pain, though.
Odds are high your girlfriend has a history of cheating far beyond what you know. As I said, that cousin deal alone has her many standard deviations from a normal person. Throw in that she then lived with the guy( a man who she knew for certain was immoral and a snake) exposing her own kids to him. That behavior is so astronomically repugnant it should, by itself show you what you were dealing with. But, it will take time for this to dawn on you.
I think, with time, various other strange, abusive behaviors of hers will be recollected, stuff that you glossed over, not realizing its nature.
One that jumps to my mind is how she interacted with your daughter. Any empathetic, compassionate ADULT, would have realized the trauma your daughter went through as the result of her mother'infideliy and the resulting divorce. Naturally, any child wants its parents together and has issues with the replacement. This was your oldest, right, the one with the greatest consciousness of what your first wife did. The one with the longest history in what she thought was a stable family.
Your girlfriend ( and my opinion is, of course, biased because she is a known serial cheater), should have bent over backwards to try to help your daughter adjust. I cannot imagine how your daughter felt being kicked out for a person capable of what we know your girlfriend has done.
I made a similar mistake with my son, the one now fighting heroin addiction. I tried to shield him from his step mom's antipathy, but was nowhere near assertive enough. To this day, it is a huge source of shame for me. My son loves me and I have apologized, but this still haunts me.
In any case, know that the massive weight loss is common. Anxiety, lack of concentration, forgetfulness, sleep disturbances - all par for the course.
They subside gradually over time. Hang in there. Rely on trusted friends and family. Let work know if it is affecting performance, assuming you have decent bosses etc.


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

re16 said:


> I notice two things...
> 
> 1. You blew past a red flag when you decided to start a relationship with a known and admitted cheater.
> 
> ...


True. on one. Took it slow, had a lot of common friends, went to HS together, most people didm't know about her divorce, maybe none Im aware of, but it is a fact. I thought she learned a lot from it. She said she learned that she could never cause that much pain again. She seemed to have learned enough anyways and people do stupid things. I forgave her, but here I am.

I definitely did not mate guard. Too torn between going to see her and being a Dad. And I believe in freedom in relationships- but this amount of distance and the irregularity with which we saw each other was always on my mind, especially because I had been cheated on before. Would definitely do that differently today

"break your heart" Is all I can think about. I just can't wrap my head around this...


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

crushed2x said:


> True. on one. Took it slow, has a lot of common friends, went to HS together, outside of this one incident had a great reputation and most people didm't know. I thought she learned a lot from it. enough anyways and people do stupid things. I forgave her
> 
> I definitely did not mate guard. Too torn between going to see her and being a Dad. Would definitely do that differently today
> 
> :break your heart" Is all I can think about. I just can't wrap my head around this...


No one needs to " mate guard" a person who has integrity. 

Pray tell, how does onelearn something from banging her husband's cousin and moving him in for 10 years. Slow learner or a sociopath? 
I hope, by now, you are beginning to really think about the gravity of this particular red flag.SHE CHEATED WITH AND FELT COMFORTABLE LIVING FOR A DECADE WITH HER HUSBAND'S COUSIN. This sishit right out of" Deliverance", or Hunter Biden's playbook( although his brother was deceased, so maybe a bit of a distinction).


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

" One incident" THAT YOU KNOW OF. My wager offer still stands.


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> This is the toughest period, the initial shock period. It is pretty brutal. You are on the "High Impact Infidelity Diet". Many go through this( I lost 47 lbs. from a fit, lean body in about 3 months. Folks thought I had cancer.).
> Eat what you can. Exercise and hydrate. Easier said then done , but try.
> I am 15 years post the second marriage discovery. And, my XW( both, actually), is a narcissist for sure. On some level, the cheating was a relief, my golden ticket out from an abuser. Yet, the betrayal still affected me. You are ,probably, not ready to accept or understand what many here can see and are telling you about. But you really, really dodged a bullet here. Does not reduce the initial pain, though.
> Odds are high your girlfriend has a history of cheating far beyond what you know. As I said, that cousin deal alone has her many standard deviations from a normal person. Throw in that she then lived with the guy( a man who she knew for certain was immoral and a snake) exposing her own kids to him. That behavior is so astronomically repugnant it should, by itself show you what you were dealing with. But, it will take time for this to dawn on you.
> ...


Thank you very much for the lengthy thoughtful reply. I wish you luck with your son. You never know, sometimes these things work out.

I have all the symptoms you said and a few more. Can barely walk around I'm so weak. confused often, tired but can't sleep, shaky af, I'm usually outdoors every day in November but can't get off the couch, and if it weren't for my dogs I'd be in bed. Down 20 but hasn't been that long and I only started at 178# When I originally got divorced i was 192# and lost 24. Worked hard to keep it off, and changed my workouts Unfortunatey I have an injured neck and shoulder right now or workouts would be the plan to bring me back from hell. I can't work out.

One thing that keeps ringing in my head is "how long until I feel normal" And "will I ever trust again". And how long until I date ANYONE? I don't know. Its depressing to think I will never look into someones eyes and trust them with my soul again. This is the third big betrayal if I count what happened to me in HS, which was awful. I know no-one can provide a timeline, but I sure wish they could. I can get through anything if I know how long I have to buckle up for.

This forum is great. I don't know what I would do without it in the state Im in right now. A lot of people have shared personal things and given bits of hope for future happiness. That means a lot to me. more than you know Thank you and thank everyone.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

crushed2x said:


> One thing that keeps ringing in my head is "how long until I feel normal" And "will I ever trust again". And how long until I date ANYONE? I don't know. Its depressing to think I will never look into someones eyes and trust them with my soul again. This is the third big betrayal if I count what happened to me in HS, which was awful. I know no-one can provide a timeline, but I sure wish they could. I can get through anything if I know how long I have to buckle up for.


From seeing many stories on here, often times the one year update is very positive, so it must be significantly less than a year that people are back on track and out in the world.

I think you probably have a tough 90 days coming, but the quicker you start to 'fake it until you make it'... the better.

She's already taken a lot of time from you, stop letting her take more.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Truthfully, I do not think I ever fully normalized. Look, it has been 27 years since discovery of mynfirstvwife's serial cheating( found her writings in our desk describing her desire to " Sop my destructive habits: drinking, smoking, SEX WITH STRANGERS"). We had two toddlers at the time, one with Down Syndrome and autism. I had been taking care of them ,virtually, by myself as her commitment to cheating was very time consuming.
My second wife's s cheating was discovered 16 years ago. And, yet, here I am, still dealing with it( albeit by trying to help other guys get through it. ((When I first sought support way back, there was a real paucity of help for men. Almost all books used the feminine pronoun for the betrayed and folks had not caught on to the prevalence of cheating among women yet)) ). Fortunately, times have changed.
In any case, do not bank on normalizing. And, in your and my cases, that is a good thing. Our " normals" are what got us into these messes. Well adjusted, confident, ethical people simply do not get involved with known cheaters, like we did. We need to own that. Does not make us evil, simply very, very misguided.
You will see in the responses to you, many of the betrayed men pointing to MGTOW or red pill concepts. The temptation is to label these guys misogynistic. It is amazing how the research into infidelity leads many of us to MGTOW concepts, as well as to expertise (amateur) in Cluster B personality disorders. 
I was never capable( thankfully), of returning to my naive baseline. I sort of mourned this, initially, but my cynicism, skepticism, whatever has served me well. I have a good life now, lots of friends, meaning, good relationships with kids and family( including ex in laws). 
You cannot unseen or unknown what you now are aware of. There are, truly, monsters(sociopaths and narcissists) among us. With education, you can minimize your future risk of involvement with one. And, having now become aware of your own lack of perceptiveness, as regards recognizing these types( 3 times now? (( well, I am no better if you include girlfriends as well as wives )) ), you can take the necessary steps Tom wise up.
Yeah, it is innocence lost and, initially, that feels like a big loss. But, life is, actually, better when you live in reality. And, you will know that, other than something bad happening to your kids or loved ones, nothing can really hurt you so much that it puts you dow. The old " that which does not kill me" deal.
This whole metamorphosis is going to take time.
I found one of my now best friends on the internet during this ordeal. Our stories were so much alike. The time frames lined up( marriages, discovery, divorces, kids). We shared the same profession. We both played basketball collegiately. We were basketball junkies etc. We live on opposite coasts but visit each other and talk weekly.
I hope you find a similar source of support. Virtually no one who has not been through this will fully understand like a fellow betrayed. Seek out support.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Another thing, the extent of the effect of betrayal, while never easy, affects some folks with a past history of abandonment more extremely than others. A good book on this is Susan Anderson's " THE JOURNEY FROM ABANDONMENT TO HEALING".
It is quite interesting how she describes the differences in the neurochemistry of how a previously traumatized (abandoned ) person's s brain reacts to betrayal like this. There are measurable difference in the nature and quantity of the chemicals released. I had a background that predisposed me to a pretty severe reaction (alcoholic dad, sexual abuse by a neighbor at age 11).
Perhaps read the book as you have now had multiple betrayals. This stuff does change one, not always for the worse. Empathy increased for me. Same with patience and compassion. My priorities are much different now,and I am much more assertive, less tolerant of crap from anyone. Pretty much fearless. I do not get nervous in court or in golf tournaments.


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## skerzoid (Feb 7, 2017)

What you are feeling has been felt by most people on the this board. You are not alone.

However, you are co-dependent in the extreme.

You want us to reassure you that it is possible she will return to you and all will be well. Our lying to you will not make you better, but only give you false hope.

You need to reach down and find strength for your children (all of them). You need to show them how to deal with a terrible situation. Unfortunately, you are choosing to do the opposite,

You put her on a pedestal. Nobody is worthy of that. All of us are capable of terrible things. Its human.

Find strength not only for yourself, but your kids (all of them).


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

skerzoid said:


> What you are feeling has been felt by most people on the this board. You are not alone.
> 
> However, you are co-dependent in the extreme.
> 
> ...


I believe everything you say here is correct. I am still in shock and still want to believe some couples therapy and hard work will right this ship before it sinks. I want to believe she hasn't gone too far emotionally. I know both of these things are unlikely but I just can't give up on her. Its been 9 days since I found out. About 6-8 weeks since I had reason to suspect. Still can't process. I have periods of strength and acceptance and a firm feeling of the need to close the book and not look back, but it happened so fast I feel like I have no closure, not all the facts, or at least not enough, and that's bad for the way my brain functions.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

crushed2x said:


> I believe everything you say here is correct. I am still in shock and still want to believe some couples therapy and hard work will right this ship before it sinks. I want to believe she hasn't gone too far emotionally. I know both of these things are unlikely but I just can't give up on her. Its been 9 days since I found out. About 6-8 weeks since I had reason to suspect. Still can't process. I have periods of strength and acceptance and a firm feeling of the need to close the book and not look back, but it happened so fast I feel like I have no closure, not all the facts, or at least not enough, and that's bad for the way my brain functions.


What is she admitting to at this point?

What is she denying?


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

I hope you leave her in the dust and reconnect with your daughter. Also, I hope you learn that you never drive from Iowa to Rhode Island for a chick, any chick.


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

GusPolinski said:


> What is she admitting to at this point?
> 
> What is she denying?


She is admitting to going out and "having new friends" Admitted there is a 'guy but not on that level" on the first day when I asked. Since the first day's admissions, she has denied any involvement with "a guy" whatsoever and in our counseling appointment, 2x went pretty hard on "there is no guy" Clearly she has a safety net and someone/people talking in her ear. She never did this to me before, as in will not answer a call, meet, and will answer a text sometimes but only after several hours. I hadn't texted her in over a week until yesterday. I haven't called her in over a week. I have asked her to meet via text that she never answered. She agreed to couples therapy, I set a date and now she is waffling a little bit saying she wants to get with her therapist first. Problem there, as I see it, is she will more than likely say the same things to this woman that she recently has to her friends- and in our therapy session, creating a fictitious past, and making things that were off a little bit look like she was with Hitler himself. We had some issues, most I would consider minor I did NOT see this coming. but you already knew that.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

She’s lying and you know it.

This can’t work for as long as she’s lying — and you know that, too.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

crushed2x said:


> She is admitting to going out and "having new friends" Admitted there is a 'guy but not on that level" on the first day when I asked. Since the first day's admissions, she has denied any involvement with "a guy" whatsoever and in our counseling appointment, 2x went pretty hard on "there is no guy" Clearly she has a safety net and someone/people talking in her ear. She never did this to me before, as in will not answer a call, meet, and will answer a text sometimes but only after several hours. I hadn't texted her in over a week until yesterday. I haven't called her in over a week. I have asked her to meet via text that she never answered. She agreed to couples therapy, I set a date and now she is waffling a little bit saying she wants to get with her therapist first. Problem there, as I see it, is she will more than likely say the same things to this woman that she recently has to her friends- and in our therapy session, creating a fictitious past, and making things that were off a little bit look like she was with Hitler himself. We had some issues, most I would consider minor I did NOT see this coming. but you already knew that.



You must be a glutton for punishment, or you have lost all sense of dignity and self respect, because what I see here is man bent on playing the "I must keep her at all cost" while forgetting about your sense of manhood. You basically are willing to put aside your dignity and self respect as long as you can keep her. I don't understand what is it that you are trying to achieve by "forcing her" to have couples therapy? why? your relationship is dead. You should get this through your head. You say you're not really a pushover, but that's basically all you've been doing, pretending, holding yourself, not being the individual that you once were, but doing whatever soul crushing, tongue biting, hand wringing that you think it will give you a change, and edge to bring her back to you. That's pathetic dude. 

Let's suppose for a moment that she has not really cheated on you with another person (obviously she has) but she has made clear to your face that she's done with the relationship, that should be more than enough for you to just say to yourself and her: sorry you feel that way, good luck and goodbye, but no, you just have to be the weak pushover trying everything in your head to convince yourself that if you try harder you can"keep her". Yeah, you might be able to keep her at least for a while longer, but you will not longer have her love for you, her heart is somewhere else.

be a man and accept it. when you need to force someone into staying with you, then there's not love, all you have is that person's weak attempt/cowardice to stay because the person feel coerced, but eventually she will leave. Love is an easy peaceful feeling that flows positively, once that flow is interrupted, is gone. You can try to glue it together, but not to avail because that which is forced is not real, is not there. Only those that have not love, no dignity, no self respect for themselves can think of forcing someone to love them.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

First off, try to stay calm. If you cannot workout because of your injuries, walk, try to hydrate and eat well. You are in the very early days, the worst time. This will, very gradually, get better.
I went back and read the first paragraph of your first post and a couple of things occurred to me.
First, you got custody of your children in your divorce. This is a bit unusual for a male. You were, most likely, your kids main caregiver and the stable parent. But, this also indicates to me that your wife must have been a very screwed up person, not only since she cheated but her nurturing skills/ instincts were deficient.
Then, post divorce, you entered into a relationship with not just a known cheater, but one who became involved with her husband's cousin, was busted sexting him, and who eventually moved him in with her young children. Yet, you describe her as sweet, compassionate etc. You just accepted this woman as such despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Didn't t it occur to you how abberent her behavior had been? Her reason for cheating was that her husband worked too much? That is mind bogglingly ****ed up. Your subconscious must have taken this in.
Now, despite knowing her past( some of it. That which as well as her recent cheating


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## ArthurGPym (Jun 28, 2021)

Stop trying to dig the truth out of her. You and she know she cheated. That is all you need. Divorce her and begin moving on. One day at a time.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Sorry, got cut off.
In a nutshell , I hope you learn a valuable lesson from this. Once you recover, never, ever get involved with a woman who has cheated. Cheaters are, fundamentally, different than normal people. 
You are paying a much smaller price here than you did when your wife cheated. This has zero impact on your finances or access to your kids. It sucks, don't get me wrong, but it pales in comparison to what many fathers have faced. They are crushed financially, and have limited access to their children. And, I know you went through worse hell the first in your marriage. And, I know you are sensitized because of the previous trauma. So, you have my sympathy. 
But you really need to see this lying, gaslighting, serially cheating woman for what she is.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Fortunately, Arthur, they are not married. You are right, he needs to ghost her ass.


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## Chaparralredux (Apr 21, 2021)

You should stop going to therapy with her immediately. This is your way of doing the pick me dance. The dance that never works. If you had/have any chance you need to go no contact with her and stand up for yourself. If she does ask you why you're stopping, simply tell her there is no point sitting there and watching her lie her ass off. Show some anger instead of whipped puppy dog. 
From your first post, it sounds like she was never all in. Like there was always some reason to keep a certain amount of distance between the two of you. Now that the time has come that nothing stands in the way, she turns on you. 

You seem to be doing well for yourself. Do not contact her. See how long it takes for her to contact you. Hire a PI to see what he can find for your piece of mind. 

Just to repeat myself, the pick me dance never works. Shock and awe does sometimes. Weakness drives them away. Strength is attractive. Your whole body isn't hurt, exercise what is working. Its the best medicine.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Serial cheaters almost never stop. It’s too much fun.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> Send her this in two separate texts:
> 
> “Cheaters cheat; that’s what and who you are, and that’s what you do. It is and will forever be your legacy.”
> 
> ...


@crushed2x

Think I’d use this as the second text instead:

“We’re done. I’m so happy I didn’t marry you. I realize now why <your daughter> was giving us so much grief — she was onto you, even if she didn’t know it. Don’t bother contacting me again.”

…and then turn off your phone because HOLY **** the calls and texts will start pouring in like a hurricane. 🤣🤣🤣


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## SnowToArmPits (Jan 2, 2016)

Hi OP. Sorry for your pain.

Does she still travel 5 days a week, working 100 hour weeks? Difficult to repair a relationship with someone with that work life.

Hindsight and all that, but sounds like when she took that job it was the beginning of the end of your relationship. It's great to be a hard worker, not great to be the significant other of someone working that job. 

All the stalling on her end when you were trying to make your relationship closer were red flags, she was wobbly on your future together.

Cheating on her husband with his cousin, then lives with him. Oy, who does that OP? Your lady has a selfish cruel streak that most people don't.


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## skerzoid (Feb 7, 2017)

You are not listening. You still hope to save this. You will continue to torture yourself. Why do you value yourself so lowly? She was not who you thought she was. Move on with your life!


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

SnowToArmPits said:


> Hi OP. Sorry for your pain.
> 
> Does she still travel 5 days a week, working 100 hour weeks? Difficult to repair a relationship with someone with that work life.
> 
> ...


No she stopped traveling a few years ago, but the hours never lessened. She's Up every day at 3;30 am- or 4 if she was lazy. Used to drive me nuts. (now she's closing bars and sleeping to 7 Try being woken up every day at 330-4 then again after she worked out at 5;30. When I complained I was a di*k. But I used to say not many people could deal with that. Am I wrong? She'd also go to bed by 8 or if we were lucky 9, and shed be upset that I didn't come lay with her for at least a little bit before she fell asleep. My kids were doing stuff, and If I laid down I'd fall asleep, and miss what they were doing. Works still 80 hours a week, and calls and emails almost alway take up significant parts of the weekend. The job was the beginning of the end for sure. I begged her to quit, change etc..said I would pay any difference in salary. She is caught up in the titles and rhetoric of "that's not a heavy lift" and all this stupid jargon that makes smart people look really dumb. But she feels important which is good but at what sacrifice. She barely saw her kids, and manages to blame spending time with mine for that. I always told her- priorities- get to your house.

The stalling, or as it you said wobbly made me nuts. I guarantee when I do recover that I could get a woman to live in this house in short order. or marry me. But she won't be a cheater! @Megaforce. It is one of the nicest houses in my town, 8 acres, full gym, she paid zero dollars for anything too. And we are all easy to live with most of the time. We really never had any issues.

When I found out about the cousin. I was literally sick for weeks. I questioned my own sanity several times a day for a while. She seemed so remorseful that it almost seemed as if she'd take her own life before cheating again. She seemed like a young lady that had worn the scarlet letter and learned more than most. It was forgiveness, or move on. Perhaps I chose wrong. The selfish cruel streak has returned. And as bad as it sounds, I'm still in love but I am working every day to pull my head out of my a**, and you guys are an immense help. No sugarcoated BS.


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## SnowToArmPits (Jan 2, 2016)

crushed2x said:


> When I found out about the cousin. I was literally sick for weeks. I questioned my own sanity several times a day for a while. She seemed so remorseful that it almost seemed as if she'd take her own life before cheating again.


Mate we're in your corner, not to pile onto your misery... but... she then lived with said cousin for 10 YEARS. 

Remorseful, OK that can work for a one night stand. Living for 10 years with her husband's cousin? No if she told you she was remorseful, she was full of ****. 

I apologize for saying your lady love is full of ****, but man oh man sounds like nonsense OP.


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## manowar (Oct 3, 2020)

You are another Nice Guy. There's a very good reason why fewer Not-Nice-Guys arrive here. 

This is for you amigo. You are part of your problem and your bellyaching quite frankly is hard to take. You were treated this way for a reason. I think I know why.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Right, many of us made mistakes in overlooking stuff like you did. You are not a bad person, just a guy brought up in an era where males were indoctrinated with a lot of bogus crap as regards the nature of women. Flip the genders. Do you think a decent woman would have overlooked a guy having cheated on his wife and kids with his wife's cousin and shacking up with her exposing his kids to her ?
Infidelity has led to many men educating themselves on the true nature of women and the red flags indicating you have found a bad one.
Best way to heal fastest is no more contact of any kind. Frankly, the way you describe this woman, her work habits and values, she is no p


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> Right, many of us made mistakes in overlooking stuff like you did. You are not a bad person, just a guy brought up in an era where males were indoctrinated with a lot of bogus crap as regards the nature of women. Flip the genders. Do you think a decent woman would have overlooked a guy having cheated on his wife and kids with his wife's cousin and shacking up with her exposing his kids to her ?
> Infidelity has led to many men educating themselves on the true nature of women and the red flags indicating you have found a bad one.
> Best way to heal fastest is no more contact of any kind. Frankly, the way you describe this woman, her work habits and values, she is no p


no p? please explain


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

skerzoid said:


> You are not listening. You still hope to save this. You will continue to torture yourself. Why do you value yourself so lowly? She was not who you thought she was. Move on with your life!


You are right. I am not listening. I am hearing, but I am not listening. I am still squarely in disbelief, and the fact that she went off in therapy and swore up and down she isn't seeing someone, although I believe ZERO of that charade still screws me up and makes me feel the need to ask her questions. And she isn't talking to me. Strangest thing ever, just cut off. So frustrating and mean as F***


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Do you not understand that she will not give you the answers you are demanding? She gains nothing by doing that. It all comes down to, she did what she did because she wanted to do it. Simple. No logical reason. No thoughts of your love for her. Probably even no intention of hurting you. In fact, probably no thoughts of you what so ever.

Cheaters are not logical. There no magic reason for cheating, so stop thinking you will find one.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

crushed2x said:


> no p? please explain


No prize. Sorry, got cut off again.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

crushed2x said:


> You are right. I am not listening. I am hearing, but I am not listening. I am still squarely in disbelief, and the fact that she went off in therapy and swore up and down she isn't seeing someone, although I believe ZERO of that charade still screws me up and makes me feel the need to ask her questions. And she isn't talking to me. Strangest thing ever, just cut off. So frustrating and mean as F***


You are seeing the real her now.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

It’s over. File for divorce!


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## SnowToArmPits (Jan 2, 2016)

> And she isn't talking to me.


Dude. A workaholic who won't make time for you, now won't even talk to you. 

At this point she's a distant friend not a GF. 

She's not living with you right? if you need to know what she's up to, hire a PI. This could allow you to fully move on if she's seeing other men. Right now you're in limbo-land.


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## manowar (Oct 3, 2020)

WATCH ----


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Really? You’d want just any woman in your home just so you aren’t alone?
You need help. That would be a terrible way to approach a chance to grow AND learn about yourself!
Start by learning to cook! Really learn how to be good at it! Clean the house and start working out. You need to take care of yourself and stop being so desperate for any woman that you’ll take a warm body!
Read co dependent no more by melody Beattie - you should never place someone in such high regard that you would harm yourself over them.
See a therapist - tell them you are depressed and need help becoming confident and self reliant.
No one should ever hold this much of YOUR power!
Get busy living! Take a vacation.


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

Beach123 said:


> It’s over. File for divorce!


we never married. I'm thankful, but also wondering if we had would this have played out differently. Probably not just more expensive.


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

SnowToArmPits said:


> Dude. A workaholic who won't make time for you, now won't even talk to you.
> 
> At this point she's a distant friend not a GF.
> 
> She's not living with you right? if you need to know what she's up to, hire a PI. This could allow you to fully move on if she's seeing other men. Right now you're in limbo-land.


Yes a work a colic, who I have asked to change her job. I even told her I'd pay her salary every year to Not work and she makes a lot of money. I just wanted US. 

Limbo land is the most difficult place to live. Give me facts, give me reasons, give me anything concrete so I can move on. She is NOT living with me. Moved out 18 mom ago because my daughter was causing her so much anxiety that she was very sick)lost 30 pounds) I have never seen someone look so close to death and I a not exaggerating. She probably weighed 85 pounds and you could see every bone.

She hooked up with a 70 year old surgeon, who has the largest oceanfront estate in her RI community. She thinks I'm stupid, and she thinks everyone else is too. This relationship is not what she wants. She is a hometown girl, likes simplicity, getting her hands dirty, and doesn't like fake people. She's going to cocktail parties, hanging with rich snobs, and feels super important right now. It won't make her truly happy in the end. Makes me sick


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

manowar said:


> READCATED


You have most of this dead wrong. No disrespect, but you're filling in blanks with theory.

No one you know stands up for themselves more than I do. It is how I am wired. I don't tolerate BS from anyone.

I am not even a fan of TV or movies, never was. But there is something to religion and what you are taught about respect and truth that I believe more people should respect. She didn't, and yes it is here breaking, and yes I have cried like a woman and I'm not at all afraid to admit it. Men cry too. This wasn't an easy loss and not something I saw coming, like this anyways. So you don't need to read my posts, you don't need to make fun of me. I am in the lowest spot I've ever been in with no roadmap to navigate it. MOST of the people on here have shared thoughts and experiences that have shed light, and been helpful.

My daughter always came first. that changed when my daughter started causing problems with all of my other kids and those relationships started to get strained. My son moved out because of it, and my younger kids asked me to have her move out- but my GF had already hit the road.

Advice is appreciated, pretending you know everything I've done or been through and criticizing is unnecessary, and inaccurate


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

Beach123 said:


> Really? You’d want just any woman in your home just so you aren’t alone?
> You need help. That would be a terrible way to approach a chance to grow AND learn about yourself!
> Start by learning to cook! Really learn how to be good at it! Clean the house and start working out. You need to take care of yourself and stop being so desperate for any woman that you’ll take a warm body!
> Read co dependent no more by melody Beattie - you should never place someone in such high regard that you would harm yourself over them.
> ...


I have no idea what you're talking about, "any woman". I never said I want ANY woman. I don't want anyone right now. i have always been fine living alone. This time period of my life is different because my two youngest just left for college and my GF left soon after unexpectedly. It left me unexpectedly alone, and in a rough spot. One know I can get through eventually. I think most would feel some sense of WTF. I cook, I clean, I do laundry, am totally self reliant and just started looking for jobs and volunteer work(I am retired), and I do limited working out because of a neck injury. I have taken a break from working out because some things were acting up.

I do need a vacation. I just need to get in a better head space before I go. Maybe January or Feb.

I do see a therapist

I do need to get MY power back. I'm just not sure how to do that.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Drop the hopium pipe. It just keeps you bound.


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

manowar said:


> The more I read about you dude the worse it gets.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


again you misinterpreted what I was saying here. completely. You jump to conclusions. And I have been married once, not twice. I said Id never do that again and I didn't


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

Rob_1 said:


> Of course you're right, but do you think OP would be able to comprehend this? Do you think that even if OP were to be able to comprehend this he would actually do a thing? I don't think so. He would continue to wallow in his chimera because this type of men actually don't know better, they are unable to detach from that which they had mentally/emotionally made their life's reason to live for.
> 
> It's not just an obsession, but also a sign of a controlling individual. Unless they are the one letting go is OK; otherwise, like a pit bull they won't let go.


i never said I'd get married again. Especially to solve a problem lk=ike you're making it sound. This is out of context. Re read what I wrote. And I have been married once, learned a hard lesson and didn't do it again. I didn't drink the kool aide and jump into another marriage. I sent 12 years with a woman with no marriage, and no plan for marriage although I wanted to plan it for 2022, it didn't work out.


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

manowar said:


> WATCH ----


I get some of this, and it makes sense. The loss here for me I think is this. I got Fd by my ex. My kids were little and I got custody. I met a girl that was from my hometown, who knew my friends and I knew hers. We raised our kids together like a machine, and I felt like at some point we EACH got ourselves back after our divorces and had a great life with a very "normal" loving relationship. She was a critical part of raising my kids and they did, and DO love her. I thought that was forever, and this break up is NOT just about me. If it was, it would be much more simple. I feel like my first marriage failed, and the kids suffered, greatly. I always told them if this relationship ends, "it will not end ugly" because we vowed no matter what it would not be cheating because of the pain we had each lived individually. It makes me sick to think the kids will have another loss at the hands of a selfish w. It's huge to me, and where most of my angst and sadness come from. I don't know what to tell them and Im afraid that she will lie to them. The video is not a fit for the complexities of my situation, but something to be learned from it going forward. Thx.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Simply, she fooled you. She was never who she pretended to be. Not a crime that you fell for it.
The red pill stuff has a lot of merit. But, you were dealing with a personality disordered woman. So, in addition to , perhaps, learning about the true nature of women and ethnocentrism, take a look at the information on Cluster B personality disorders. 

Simply tell your kids the truth about finding out she was cheating. 

Many of us were deceived as you were. Your life can be infinitely better without this woman.

It sort of boggles my mind, however, that you were willing to pay her salary so she would not work. That does indicate desperation, lack of self respect, and may have been instrumental in her losing attraction. Just way to differential and subservient. Women are not attracted to that.

Hang in there. You caught a break not being married to her. Your first wife's s cheating( a major trauma), may have set the stage for your being vulnerable to this latest cheater' s deception.

You have the financial resources and decent looks to attract women. But vet them better. Take off the blue pill goggles. I was in a similar position post second divorce. 52 years old, had a high paying job, still pretty fit. I had some hard and fast rules for dating: no one who ever cheated on someone or with someone was number one.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Gynocentrism. Spell check must have changed it.


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> Simply, she fooled you. She was never who she pretended to be. Not a crime that you fell for it.
> The red pill stuff has a lot of merit. But, you were dealing with a personality disordered woman. So, in addition to , perhaps, learning about the true nature of women and ethnocentrism, take a look at the information on Cluster B personality disorders.
> 
> Simply tell your kids the truth about finding out she was cheating.
> ...


I did say I would pay her a differential if she took a lower paying, less demanding job at one point because her new job demands were ridiculous. like 100 hour ridiculous. Up at 3:330 - 4 every day, spill over into significant portions of weekend, etc When she had a normal job and didn't seem to act so important we were at our best. I had sold a company and wanted to take care of her but didn't want to make her feel like I was making or pressuring her to quit. You have t understand I wanted her to feel like we were partners and I wasn't the only one who "hit it big" or who could retire. Tricky spot, and maybe I handled it wrong. I had good intentions. I did also eventually tell her if its the money, and you're worried about paying for your houses I will pay your salary and we will travel, do volunteer jobs, whatever makes it work. I was desperately missing her and how good our relationship was, for me, prior to the new job. I thought I could fix it with $, to get her time back. She didn't let me but she let me buy her a car, expensive jewelry, driveways for her two homes, outdoor shower, landscaping, bunk house, and a complete re-do of her failing beach house. That stuff was ok.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

crushed2x said:


> i never said I'd get married again. Especially to solve a problem lk=ike you're making it sound. This is out of context. Re read what I wrote. And I have been married once, learned a hard lesson and didn't do it again. I didn't drink the kool aide and jump into another marriage. I sent 12 years with a woman with no marriage, and no plan for marriage although I wanted to plan it for 2022, it didn't work out.


We're not talking at all about you getting marry. It's about your lack of self respect and dignity as a man when you are pining and trying to retain a woman that is nothing but a cheating, immoral individual. It's about you not understanding that when a woman ****s a dude not her husband/partner and the husband/partner is willing to look the other way as long as he can have her back (essentially a reluctant cuckold) then you are nothing but a weak individual that has not respect for himself. How can you look at her and desire her when you know she's been royally ****ed by another dude.? how can you be willing to want her? No man that respects himself would want to do anything at all with a cheating ****. This is what we are trying to tell you. But no, you must keep her at all cost, including your manhood. this is what we're talking about because you've been saying all along that what you want is her. 

You know she cheated, you you know she has previously cheated, you know that she has not respect for you, still you're looking at how to get her back that's the bottom line: YOU acting like a dude that does not respect himself by the mere act that you want her back. That's what we are talking about. That's the the whole point.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

You are living in the past. Nostalgia is nice, but has little to do with present reality. Stop with the "I think", "Why did she", "What if I had", and the "Maybes". None of that has anything to do with the present and what she is doing now. Move on and live your life for yourself and your kids. Looks like she has already done that.


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

Rob_1 said:


> We're not talking at all about you getting marry. It's about your lack of self respect and dignity as a man when you are pining and trying to retain a woman that is nothing but a cheating, immoral individual. It's about you not understanding that when a woman **s a dude not her husband/partner and the husband/partner is willing to look the other way as long as he can have her back (essentially a reluctant cuckold) then you are nothing but a weak individual that has not respect for himself. How can you look at her and desire her when you know she's been royally ****ed by another dude.? how can you be willing to want her? No man that respects himself would want to do anything at all with a cheating **. This is what we are trying to tell you. But no, you must keep her at all cost, including your manhood. this is what we're talking about because you've been saying all along that what you want is her.
> 
> You know she cheated, you you know she has previously cheated, you know that she has not respect for you, still you're looking at how to get her back that's the bottom line: YOU acting like a dude that does not respect himself by the mere act that you want her back. That's what we are talking about. That's the the whole point.


I am sure every woman you have ever been with was a virgin. You're very lucky. Most have had a fair amount of sex if they are over 16 when you meet them. I'm Not sure I remember saying I want to get her back at all costs. I'm in a tough spot here trying to navigate it and concerned about my kids. She didn't admit ***ing another dude, and I didn't see it. I do believe wholeheartedly that she did. I want-ed her. And I wanted her forever. Our lives were pretty linked. I don't want her again unless she takes a lie detector test and wasn't doing what you've said, and what I believe. Tough road to navigate with emotions this high, and I'm doing the best I can. I will turn the switch to off fairly soon, and when I do it doesn't turn back. I was hoping to get some answers, and to tell her how I feel and walk away with what little self respect I have left. I think the best place for that is in a therapy place where A) she will feel comfortable B) she might be pressed by a counselor, and C) I can unload what I have to unload without her hanging up, driving away, or leaving, and be done. She needs to know what she did and how it impacts me and all of the rest of the people she claims she loves, including my kids, my mom, and her own kids. Once a cheater, always a cheater. I am absolutely not willing to just look the other way.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*MODERATOR WARNING:- *Just because another member is not 100% on board with what you are telling them they should feel, think or do, doesn't give you the right to beat up on them. 

Do it again, you will be banned.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

crushed2x said:


> *I am sure every woman you have ever been with was a virgin*. You're very lucky. Most have had a fair amount of sex if they are over 16 when you meet them. *I'm Not sure I remember saying I want to get her back at all costs*. I'm in a tough spot here trying to navigate it and concerned about my kids. She didn't admit ***ing another dude, and I didn't see it. I do believe wholeheartedly that she did. I want-ed her. *And I wanted her forever*. Our lives were pretty linked. I don't want her again unless she takes a lie detector test and wasn't doing what you've said, and what I believe. Tough road to navigate with emotions this high, and I'm doing the best I can. I will turn the switch to off fairly soon, and when I do it doesn't turn back. I was hoping to get some answers, and to tell her how I feel and walk away with what little self respect I have left. I think the best place for that is in a therapy place where A) she will feel comfortable B) she might be pressed by a counselor, and C) I can unload what I have to unload without her hanging up, driving away, or leaving, and be done. She needs to know what she did and how it impacts me and all of the rest of the people she claims she loves, including my kids, my mom, and her own kids. Once a cheater, always a cheater. I am absolutely not willing to just look the other way.


?? what? what me having virgins have to do at all with your situation or her not being a virgin? when you met her she was not a virgin, but she was an immoral cheater that fooled you. Just because a woman is not a virgen, that does not makes her a cheater if what you're trying to imply is that only virgins are capable of not cheating. And for your info, Yes I married a virgin, but was married before (no a virgin), and also had plenty of girlfriends. Some were, some weren't but that not makes non virgin cheaters. Your woman is thought.

You may never be able to prove that she cheated, but you certainly know deep in your guts that she did, Period; nonetheless, you're trying by whatever means you can get to make her tell you that she did/didn't cheated on you. This by your own admission is to salvage the relationship, because of your excuses about your children, about your forever promises. Re-read yourself:



crushed2x said:


> I'm asking everyone looking for a different answer. I just can't believe it. Not her. My ex, ok. My girl...just no





crushed2x said:


> I am still in shock and still want to believe some couples therapy and hard work will right this ship before it sinks. I





crushed2x said:


> You are right. I am not listening. I am hearing, but I am not listening. I am still squarely in disbelief, and the fact that she went off in therapy and swore up and down she isn't seeing someone, although I believe ZERO of that charade still screws me up and makes me feel the need to ask her questions. And she isn't talking to me. Strangest thing ever, just cut off. So frustrating and mean as F***





crushed2x said:


> This relationship is not what she wants. She is a hometown girl, likes simplicity, getting her hands dirty, and doesn't like fake people. She's going to ****tail parties, hanging with rich snobs, and feels super important right now. It won't make her truly happy in the end. Makes me sick


isn't all of the above wanting to keep her knowing very well that indeed she cheated on you even if you can't prove it. Moreover, can't you see that she's not what you think she is ?
You are now saying that if you find that she actually cheated you will not keep her. I said to you why bother? why all this angst, all this suffering when you already know deep in your heart that she did. Let's suppose for a moment that she actually did not have sex with anybody, wouldn't just the fact that the way that she has treated you, the disrespect that she has shown you, the callous, and dismissive replies to you, wouldn't that constitute enough to terminate this relationship? If you think that no sex means that you can continue in the relationship then, you are sadly showing your lack of self respect. That's the bottom line. Who cares about your previous history with her now? she's gone and should stay gone. Time for you to start looking at things realistically, rather than what if's, and wishful thinking.

This is my take. But you are you and do what you must.


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

MattMatt said:


> *MODERATOR WARNING:- *Just because another member is not 100% on board with what you are telling them they should feel, think or do, doesn't give you the right to beat up on them.
> 
> Do it again, you will be banned.


Apologies. I reacted to a flagrant post, and don't think I said anything to beat up on anyone. I just found out my girl is cheating and this guy writes about her getting royally f**** by another guy. I think I was less disrespectful than that but I will be more mindful. Sorry to Rob


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

Rob_1 said:


> ?? what? what me having virgins have to do at all with your situation or her not being a virgin? when you met her she was not a virgin, but she was an immoral cheater that fooled you. Just because a woman is not a virgen, that does not makes her a cheater if what you're trying to imply is that only virgins are capable of not cheating. And for your info, Yes I married a virgin, but was married before (no a virgin), and also had plenty of girlfriends. Some were, some weren't but that not makes non virgin cheaters. Your woman is thought.
> 
> You may never be able to prove that she cheated, but you certainly know deep in your guts that she did, Period; nonetheless, you're trying by whatever means you can get to make her tell you that she did/didn't cheated on you. This by your own admission is to salvage the relationship, because of your excuses about your children, about your forever promises. Re-read yourself:
> 
> ...


She told me she cheated. End of story. I am trying to have a meeting with her to tell her what that did to me, whether she hears it or not is irrelevant. I need to do it to close the book and move on. I am still in the beginning stages and can't help but do some what if's but I agree that is weak. I will get stronger and be able to heal. Sorry if I offended you I thought your post about getting royally **** by another dude wasn't very nice but I get it. I was trying to make a point. Some people have open marriages. Some people have a lot of sex before marriage, some people cheat and they find a way to work through it eventually. I am not that guy, it would bother me forever, but I have wanted to hear stories of all sorts.


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## SnowToArmPits (Jan 2, 2016)

> She told me she cheated. End of story. I am trying to have a meeting with her to tell her what that did to me, whether she hears it or not is irrelevant. I need to do it to close the book and move on. I am still in the beginning stages and can't help but do some what if's but I agree that is weak.


Instead of spinning your wheels imagining a final meeting where you slay her with heartfelt words and leave her sobbing for her misdeeds (this is fantasy land), spend that time and energy on dating other women. Get yourself a new girlfriend, focusing on her will help you forget your ex.

Just move on. It's what healthy people do when a relationship ends. 18 months since she moved out... it's time man.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

crushed2x said:


> She told me she cheated. End of story. I am trying to have a meeting with her to tell her what that did to me, whether she hears it or not is irrelevant. I need to do it to close the book and move on. I am still in the beginning stages and can't help but do some what if's but I agree that is weak. I will get stronger and be able to heal. Sorry if I offended you I thought your post about getting royally **** by another dude wasn't very nice but I get it. I was trying to make a point. Some people have open marriages. Some people have a lot of sex before marriage, some people cheat and they find a way to work through it eventually. I am not that guy, it would bother me forever, but I have wanted to hear stories of all sorts.


I was not offended at all. No need to apologize. The reason some of us write things more raw than others is because, here we have seem it all, and normally we can tell when an OP is not reacting to reasons as some other poster try to tell the OP in a more rational, easy way, that's when some of us go with the 4 X 4 not to offend the OP, but to try to shock him/her out of the fog in which they are due to their trauma.

I'm glad for you that you finally got your answer and now you can move on. We all saw it from the get go, you did too, but were so shocked that you didn't want to believe it.

I'm not you, but if I were you I would ghost her, gray rock her, period. I wouldn't feel the need to have a face to face in the end it only humiliates you more in front of her. Remember, nothing like gray rocking a woman to really get to her.

Best luck going forward.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Ok, crushed. Get a grip. 
First, I do not think the moderators was addressing you, but, rather the folks posting to you.

Second, buying all that stuff for her and offering to pay a salary differential is nuts, even if you are wealthy. Did it not dawn on you that if she wanted more time around you, you would not have to pay her anything to do so? 100 hours a week, strictly voluntary? If she wanted more time with you, she would have made it happen, even without the bribe. I mean the answer is obvious, she did not want time with you.

And, I would take that as a compliment knowing her character. I hate to keep repeating this, but think about it. SHE CHEATED WITH HER HUSBAND'S COUSIN. How is that lost on you? She put on a good act for 12 years( you are wealthy, after all).

So, when did her devoting all her time to work become acceptable to you? Do you really think she was just working all that time? You know she is dishonest. Remember, she gaslit you brazenly re meeting and he other guy. I mean right to your face, in therapy, right?

Next time around with someone else, vet better and never debase yourself by. Buying her all that stuff and offering cash for her time. There is a word for this: prostitution. Let this scrawny, 85lbs woman go. Must have been like curling up with a sack of antlers.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

crushed2x said:


> I am sure every woman you have ever been with was a virgin. You're very lucky. Most have had a fair amount of sex if they are over 16 when you meet them. I'm Not sure I remember saying I want to get her back at all costs. I'm in a tough spot here trying to navigate it and concerned about my kids. She didn't admit ***ing another dude, and I didn't see it. I do believe wholeheartedly that she did. I want-ed her. And I wanted her forever. Our lives were pretty linked. I don't want her again unless she takes a lie detector test and wasn't doing what you've said, and what I believe. Tough road to navigate with emotions this high, and I'm doing the best I can. I will turn the switch to off fairly soon, and when I do it doesn't turn back. I was hoping to get some answers, and to tell her how I feel and walk away with what little self respect I have left. I think the best place for that is in a therapy place where A) she will feel comfortable B) she might be pressed by a counselor, and C) I can unload what I have to unload without her hanging up, driving away, or leaving, and be done. She needs to know what she did and how it impacts me and all of the rest of the people she claims she loves, including my kids, my mom, and her own kids. Once a cheater, always a cheater. I am absolutely not willing to just look the other way.


I get that you want answers about what is real - I do…but you likely won’t ever get answers.
I was with my exH for 27 years - I left him because I had evidence of his cheating… for the second time.
I knew I wouldn’t have him admit to anything - I knew what he was doing - but honestly if I hadn’t seen the mound of evidence I might have believed him when he tried lying about it.

Still now - 16 years after leaving him - he hasn’t admitted to anything - yet he did actually apologize (shocking) about 4 years ago out of the blue. It was an odd apology where it seemed like he regretted ruining our family - but he never admitted to anything he did. I had forgiven him ten years prior and reminded him it didn’t matter anymore…I was WAY past that. But of course, he was doing the apology for himself - not me. 🙄

So really, you get that closure from yourself. If you wait for her to make a move you will be waiting a long long time. Just move forward knowing you can’t change who she is.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

I see now she actually admitted to cheating.
But still, there isn’t any value in telling her how that made you FEEL.

She doesn’t care anymore. It’s useless to talk with her. Anything you say is irrelevant since she is now focused on someone new.
Just block her!


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Oh, and I agree. Why humiliate yourself with some meeting with her. Think she cares? Remember her character( cousin etc).
Tell your kids, age appropriately, you busted her.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I‘m female and if I had cheated and my ex wanted to have a meeting so he could tell me how he felt about what I had done I wouldn’t do it. There would be no benefit to me (and if I had cheated I wouldn’t care about it being a benefit to him — I very likely would consider it weak on his part).


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Got to agree. You will never get the truth or apology owning the specifics. May some blanket, generalized apology someday. That's about it. 
Many of us were left only with our evidence, never an admission.

See, one of the things we do is attribute normal values and character to these folks. We tend to believe they are like we are and project how we would feel having cheated.

But, here is the Catch 22: A person capable of real remorse, real guilt such that she felt compelled to apologize and own the cheating, never would have been capable of cheating in the first place.

I liken it to what I would tell the victims of some of the criminal defendants I dealt with. These folks, the victims, had the notion that while my clients were incarcerated, their misdeeds would eat at them, really bother them.
I would tell them " No, you do not understand. This guy will spend his time just dying to get out, some can do it again. The fact that he was capable of doing this to begin with indicates no conscience. REMEMBER: Cousin, around her kids; 10 years. She is a sociopath.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

crushed2x said:


> She told me she cheated. End of story. I am trying to have a meeting with her to tell her what that did to me, whether she hears it or not is irrelevant. I need to do it to close the book and move on. I am still in the beginning stages and can't help but do some what if's but I agree that is weak. I will get stronger and be able to heal. Sorry if I offended you I thought your post about getting royally **** by another dude wasn't very nice but I get it. I was trying to make a point. Some people have open marriages. Some people have a lot of sex before marriage, some people cheat and they find a way to work through it eventually. I am not that guy, it would bother me forever, but I have wanted to hear stories of all sorts.


Come on, man. Don’t go out like that.

If you want closure, send the texts I posted earlier (or something like them) and then drop and block her — immediately, everywhere, and permanently.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Why did she admit to cheating? How much have you been in contact with her?


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

Beach123 said:


> Why did she admit to cheating? How much have you been in contact with her?


When I first asked her I think it caught her off guard. She admitted it. A day or so later she texted me "I did nothing wrong, your accusations are further dividing us" to which I replied "you admitted it, twice" She's taking a hard line stance that she didn't and she did say some lie detector non-sense BEFORE I asked to see her phone which she said no that would break your heart. 

I have been in contact with her very little. Almost none for a week, but some recent texts that she has just been unreasonable about. She's clearly with another guy but doesn't want it to come out until it looks respectable for her she is buying time, putting me off as much as possible so when she spills the beans, "it just happened" we have been broken up... pretty easy to see but not easy to live with. She has put me in limbo. I want some answers. I don't need answers about "did you ****" or whatever. She is an adult I am sure she's not playing monopoly. I need answers to yes I am with someone else and yes this is over FROM her. I want to hear it, right or wrong. I am sure many have different opinions but this is what I want.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

What you want and what you get are likely two very different things. Answers from cheaters tend to be in short supply.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

crushed2x said:


> I get some of this, and it makes sense. The loss here for me I think is this. I got Fd by my ex. My kids were little and I got custody. I met a girl that was from my hometown, who knew my friends and I knew hers. We raised our kids together like a machine, and I felt like at some point we EACH got ourselves back after our divorces and had a great life with a very "normal" loving relationship. She was a critical part of raising my kids and they did, and DO love her. I thought that was forever, and this break up is NOT just about me. If it was, it would be much more simple. I feel like my first marriage failed, and the kids suffered, greatly. I always told them if this relationship ends, "it will not end ugly" because we vowed no matter what it would not be cheating because of the pain we had each lived individually. It makes me sick to think the kids will have another loss at the hands of a selfish w. It's huge to me, and where most of my angst and sadness come from. I don't know what to tell them and Im afraid that she will lie to them. The video is *not a fit for the complexities of my situation,* but something to be learned from it going forward. Thx.


No offense, but the only thing complex about this situation is the mental gymnastics you’re using on yourself.
She’s just a run of the mill cheater that is doing all the classic things a cheater does.
You’re doing what countless men do which is wallow in self pity, over analyze a simple situation, and allow YOUR emotions to make this seem “complex”.
I’ve done it, I’ve been there.

The way to get past it is to move on and ghost her as much as you can. If you have an adult daughter that is screwing up her own life and is going to drag everyone around her down also, you have to deal with that logically rather than emotionally.

Stop allowing your ex to take up real estate in your mind by going no contact unless absolutely necessary and working on improving the parts of your life you have control over. Your cheating ex is not the end all, be all of women. She’s not even an average specimen. You’re floundering. Move on by building a new life by getting your mind occupied by the things YOU have always wanted to do. Bring single isn’t a death sentence. Don’t treat it that way.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Your “wants” are unreasonable given her mindset.
She moved on long ago. You are just catching up to reality. She’s been done with you. Accept that. Accept that she isn’t about to provide you additional info.
She won’t because she’s done with you.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Exactly what pain did this woman live " individually "? She was banging her husband'cousin for 10 years.
Your pain from your ex-wife' s cheating, I understand. But vowing that if things end it would not be ugly or due to cheating because of the pain you had "both experienced individually"? No, she did not experience the kind of pain you did. In fact, she had inflicted that pain on her husband and is. Now,she is doing it again.

It is going to take a while, but down the road, with more distance and perspective, you will realize how for you are to be out. You know of two affairs. These are the tip of the iceberg, I would wager.


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## skerzoid (Feb 7, 2017)

Walk away, don't look back. 

You are still trying to do the pick-me-dance. 

You are still hoping to shame her into returning. 

The problem is that she has no shame.


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## Kaliber (Apr 10, 2020)

crushed2x said:


> I want some answers. I don't need answers about "did you ****" or whatever. She is an adult I am sure she's not playing monopoly. *I need answers to yes I am with someone else and yes this is over FROM her. I want to hear it, right or wrong.* I am sure many have different opinions but this is what I want.


Take control, dump her and ghost her!
Take your power and life back!
You're to old for this teenage scenarios!
You're to old to be weak and act like a sad poppy!
When your women becomes disloyal you kick them to the curb, lick your wounds and move on, that's what strong successful men do. Are you one?!


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

crushed2x said:


> She told me she cheated. End of story. I am trying to have a meeting with her to tell her what that did to me, whether she hears it or not is irrelevant. I need to do it to close the book and move on. I am still in the beginning stages and can't help but do some what if's but I agree that is weak. I will get stronger and be able to heal. Sorry if I offended you I thought your post about getting royally **** by another dude wasn't very nice but I get it. I was trying to make a point. Some people have open marriages. Some people have a lot of sex before marriage, some people cheat and they find a way to work through it eventually. I am not that guy, it would bother me forever, but I have wanted to hear stories of all sorts.


Bud, she doesn’t care. Talk in these situations won’t get you a thing. Closure comes from within. You’ll get nothing from her.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Sit your kids down tell them the truth and cut her off.

No one can make you a chump or keep you in limbo but yourself.

There is no magic in these situations.


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## PreRaph (Jun 13, 2017)

crushed2x said:


> When I first asked her I think it caught her off guard. She admitted it. A day or so later she texted me "I did nothing wrong, your accusations are further dividing us" to which I replied "you admitted it, twice" She's taking a hard line stance that she didn't and she did say some lie detector non-sense BEFORE I asked to see her phone which she said no that would break your heart.
> 
> I have been in contact with her very little. Almost none for a week, but some recent texts that she has just been unreasonable about. She's clearly with another guy but doesn't want it to come out until it looks respectable for her she is buying time, putting me off as much as possible so when she spills the beans, "it just happened" we have been broken up... pretty easy to see but not easy to live with. She has put me in limbo. I want some answers. I don't need answers about "did you ****" or whatever. She is an adult I am sure she's not playing monopoly. I need answers to yes I am with someone else and yes this is over FROM her. I want to hear it, right or wrong. I am sure many have different opinions but this is what I want.


Let her go my friend, just let her go. Don't contact her. Be done with her. That is what everyone here is telling you. Nothing is standing in the way of you doing this except your own fears of losing her and being alone -- no marriage, no kids. Face your fears, understand them and who knows? You may rediscover a sense of freedom that you lost when you became so much a slave to her affections.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

Marc878 said:


> Closure comes from within.


Closure is already a dubious concept. Or an ambiguous one at it´s best.
But ohhhhhhhh boy!
.......whatever includes "from within" is IMO an empty mantra.



Marc878 said:


> You’ll get nothing from her.


I agree with this, anyhow.


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## ArthurGPym (Jun 28, 2021)

You won't get anything more from her but disrespect and stonewalling. Expose what you know to family and friends and show them the evidence you have if you need to. Then go dark on her. Full 180.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

crushed2x said:


> 1) I have been in contact with her very little.
> 2) She has put me in limbo. I want some answers.
> 3) I need answers to yes I am with someone else
> 4) I am sure many have different opinions but this is what I want.


1). No contact will help you more than contacting her!
2). SHE has NOT put you in limbo. YOU put YOURSELF in limbo. Stop being her victim.
Stop being in limbo - move forward knowing it is OVER!
3). You have answers. Know that. It’s over.
4). We don’t always get what we want. You have the info you need. She isn’t focused on YOU anymore and that tells you everything.
She is done. It’s over. Move forward knowing you don’t need more info.

Whatever info you want - that info will hurt you even more. So let it go.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Hope you are alright. Hang in there. Ghost this woman. She is badly messed up.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

crushed2x said:


> When I first asked her I think it caught her off guard. She admitted it. A day or so later she texted me "I did nothing wrong, your accusations are further dividing us" to which I replied "you admitted it, twice" She's taking a hard line stance that she didn't and she did say some lie detector non-sense BEFORE I asked to see her phone which she said no that would break your heart.
> 
> I have been in contact with her very little. Almost none for a week, but some recent texts that she has just been unreasonable about. She's clearly with another guy but doesn't want it to come out until it looks respectable for her she is buying time, putting me off as much as possible so when she spills the beans, "it just happened" we have been broken up... pretty easy to see but not easy to live with. She has put me in limbo. I want some answers. I don't need answers about "did you ****" or whatever. She is an adult I am sure she's not playing monopoly. I need answers to yes I am with someone else and yes this is over FROM her. I want to hear it, right or wrong. I am sure many have different opinions but this is what I want.


There is no closure on this. Even if she were completely truthful with you, you still would not have every answer you desire.


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## marko polo (Jan 26, 2021)

crushed2x said:


> father of 4 (54). Got divorced in 2009 after my wife had an affair, and she wasn't in a place to try to work on anything. Her head was somewhere else. I got custody of my 4 kids, and raised them. 2 were 6, and the other two 11 and 12. Shortly after I met, or connected with a high school alum two years younger than me. I didn't know her, but I fell in love with her very slowly and cautiously. I know what people are going to say already- boy are you stupid- but here goes. She had told me that she had dated her husband through all of high school and college, never partied and was the valedictorian. All true. She then told me in a round about convoluted way that she got divorced because her husband worked too much, and didn't have any time for her....The truth came out in pieces...She had gone away to a family reunion(his side) and her husband got drunk and went to bed early. She hung out with his cousins etc...no mention of what went on. Next day someone has to drive a cousin to the airport, and she gets elected. Husband too hung over. They drive, Have conversation, etc, and "a hug goodbye was not just a hug" She felt something. (I already feel so finG stupid). She continues a phone relationship with him, her husband taps the phones and hears a lot of sex talk etc and they divorce. SHE ENDS UP dating him, him living in her house for 10 plus years with her 2 little kids a mile from her ex. Horrid story, unless you met her. So sweet, so kind, compassionate, honest...well, maybe not.
> 
> I took it very slow. I had been through an ugly divorce. Very ugly, and she both helped me and watched my ex abuse everyone. We vowed to be faithful, but not marry. I gave her a ring, as a promise to stay together. forever She fell in love quickly. We had a great relationship for 5 years. I had dated a lot, been married etc, and when I say this relationship was the best I mean by a MILE. Many miles. after 5 years, She took a new job and worked over 100 hours some weeks, traveling up to 5 days a week, and the relationship cooled, but it was still great and I knew I could always count on her. She was supposed to move in permanently but never did. Always an excuse, when this one goes to school, when that one goes, etc. She did stay over a lot, but this always bothered me. Never sold her house, changed her address, license, mail, etc. Did not "move in". Although she claims she did.
> 
> My kids adored her, but my oldest girl started to get jealous and try to get her in trouble with me constantly. SO also seemed to have issues of jealousy toward my oldest daughter as well. There was always a rub. It grew into a huge problem so when my daughter graduated college and moved home, SO left and went to her beach house an hour and a half away. recipe for disaster. I knew it, and I predicted it. she worked a lot and i visited when i could. She rarely came home. We have been together almost 12 years now, and with the twins going off to college this past september, I believed it was OUR Time! Finally. I asked her to go away for her birthday in sept, she didn't want to. I thought that was very weird. She has been starting fights constantly for a few months at least, about nothing, and acting different. less intimate, hugging, etc...I had a scheduled trip to go on this late Oct/early Nov., and what do you know, she started a GIANT fight right before I left. GIANT, about Nothing. For no reason and about the past and decisions we made together she now resents, and she went to the meanest places she's ever gone(my ex). I was floored. She's never been a yeller but has developed this 'Im going to say the meanest sh** I can when I'm upset to get you mad. She even said "you want out of this relationship but don't have the balls to do it" I don't. I LOVE her to the ends of the earth. That has Never changed. While I was gone all i could think about was her. I sent her messages but she never replied. She sent me an email(weird) "I need to get coats from your house". She also texted my son, my best friend's wife, my mom and another friend "when is he coming back" but never asked me. I didn't know any of this, but had a serious gut instinct kick in when I was away and immediately came home. I f I'm being honest I had some signs over the past few months and they all started eating at me. I drove from Iowa to RI, to her house and she said this relationship has to end. I was pretty surprised but also not based on the recent crazy arguments we had had. I said I respect that, but I came here to look you in the eye and ask is there another guy. Her reply "yes but not on that level", then she started spewing a bunch of stuff about "meeting a lot of people guys and girls' and nothing physical, "get a lie detector test". I said no need for that, just go get me your phone. Her reply "Im not going to do that it would break your heart" We talked for a couple hours, she screamed and yelled and deflected from the elephant in the room as much as she could. I stayed calm and when about to leave I said, its been 11 1/2 years, I think you owe me the truth about the guy. she stared into space, her eyes welled up with tears and she said "i don't want this to be my legacy" and stopped. I said like because you did this before? She acted confused and started talking about a ton of other rubbish I redirected her and she pretended to not remember even saying it. It had been one minute. She asked me to leave, and I did. A day or so later she sent me a text "I did nothing wrong and I am tired of your insinuations, they are further dividing us". I said you admitted it. She is disagreeing. She did. 100% I have been sick for weeks. I couldn't sleep or eat while I was away, I have lost 19 pounds, had cardiac irregularities, can't sleep..shaking from anxiety...just really sick. I trusted her to the ends of the earth. She won't call, text, or reply. when there has been any communication she Is trying to say I made this mistake or that(and I made some mistakes but not infidelity or stuff like that) for many years and she's angry with me. Also says I am trying to make this about a guy, and it isn't -it is about how much I suck I guess, or what I chose to do for the kids in 2015 or something Don't get me wrong, I have admitted and apologized for my mistakes, lack of judgment, anger, immature handling of situations etc. I am human- and I thought we were in Love.. Funny she just wrote me a long email about "what a great man you are" a few months ago...She says she Needs time to sort it out....with her own therapist, and she isn't communicating with me but suddenly is reaching out to my kids and mom........THOUGHTS TBH, I am heartbroken, truly heartbroken. I trusted her, and I still love her, and I wanted our future together- to the end. I can't imagine this is just how abruptly our story just ends. Way too much good and way too many years of raising kids together, trips all over the place, vacations, and the best intimacy I have ever experienced. Im sick


She has shown you who she is. Believe her. Cut your losses and focus on your children. 

Do not waste further time communicating with her save for the topics of divorce or childcare. If she will not stay focused on these two topics then end the conversation. Otherwise you will accomplish nothing. She will not want you to move on.

You will find closure within. It requires time, distance and no contact with your betrayer. If you attempt to seek closure from her she will deny it to you. It will be a game. She will dangle it in front of you only to pull it away. Closure means you can move on and leave her behind. She will not allow this.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Fortunately, they are not married and have no kids together. That woman was driving a wedge between him and one of his kids. Now, the relationship with his daughter can be repaired.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Megaforce said:


> Fortunately, they are not married and have no kids together. That woman was driving a wedge between him and one of his kids. Now, the relationship with his daughter can be repaired.


Maybe his daughter can repair her relationships with her siblings who she also alienated. Daughter is not a victim.


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

ArthurGPym said:


> You won't get anything more from her but disrespect and stonewalling. Expose what you know to family and friends and show them the evidence you have if you need to. Then go dark on her. Full 180.


I told her today was D day a week or so ago. She has messed with me at every opportunity since I found out. She surprised me on Thanksgiving. I had a bad(emotional) am and had just gotten my act together came downstairs to hang with my kids. Phone rings and its her. Mind you she told my twins "its dad's choice this year if we are coming over for thanksgiving, and they answered great see you Thursday. I didn't know about that and when I found out I texted her to see if she was coming. She went off on me some shi* about "I have been clear for the better part of two months we will not be coming to thanksgiving" Really? The better part of two months pus us at a time we were doing perfectly fine, and who is thinking about thanksgiving in September? whatever, she is constantly making up false timelines. I sent her a copy of the text to my girls. She just went off and the conversation ended...So I'm sitting alone on Thanksgiving am, the phone rings, its her. Wish I could say I didn't want totally to her but the way she ghosted me 11/7 has had me all F'd up for weeks. I answered and she said can I come over for a few minutes. I said yes. She showed up, handed me a plant, and hugged me like I was going to die tomorrow. I hugged her back, it felt good. I miss her. She said she wanted to talk so I said come upstairs into the bedroom where its private. We sat on the floor. She said I was supposed to come here today to tell you I don't love you and its over, I can't do that. She said she loves me. It felt good to hear, she was emotional, and I haven't been able to turn off my feelings so we talked for about 20 minutes. She said she is "dating" this guy I had pegged for months, acting like it is fresh out of the laundry. She said she kissed him but (made bad face) and said i just knew it wasn't romantic. Mind you I didn't believe a fing word of that. She left, kept my ring, and the whole thing bothered me all day. I felt played. I reached out to her late that evening and said I want to talk. She didn't want to. She called me the next am and was like a different person. Mean as a snake, vile, yelling, just awful. Hung up on me, and made my decision about everything much easier. I composed a lengthy email to her and the guy, set some things straight, polite, abrupt, pointed, hit send then blocked her on all platforms I can think of. I feel a great sense of relief, and I am 100% sure she will regret the impulsive stupidity of what she has done, the relationships she has ruined, it will just take some time. I read a bit on mid-life crises for women. Looks like she fits all the criteria. Good luck to the golden boy, they only last 2-5 years of *****iness, unpredictability, low sex drive...sounds like fun. Don't get me wrong here, I still spontaneously cry out of sheer frustration for having worked so hard to get through raising kids, thinking I had a perfect companion, only to be completely blindsided on the goal line. Will take a long long time for me to trust someone with my heart again- I'd be willing to bet Never. Sad but true.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

crushed2x said:


> I told her today was D day a week or so ago. She has messed with me at every opportunity since I found out. She surprised me on Thanksgiving. I had a bad(emotional) am and had just gotten my act together came downstairs to hang with my kids. Phone rings and its her. Mind you she told my twins "its dad's choice this year if we are coming over for thanksgiving, and they answered great see you Thursday. I didn't know about that and when I found out I texted her to see if she was coming. She went off on me some shi* about "I have been clear for the better part of two months we will not be coming to thanksgiving" Really? The better part of two months pus us at a time we were doing perfectly fine, and who is thinking about thanksgiving in September? whatever, she is constantly making up false timelines. I sent her a copy of the text to my girls. She just went off and the conversation ended...So I'm sitting alone on Thanksgiving am, the phone rings, its her. Wish I could say I didn't want totally to her but the way she ghosted me 11/7 has had me all F'd up for weeks. I answered and she said can I come over for a few minutes. I said yes. She showed up, handed me a plant, and hugged me like I was going to die tomorrow. I hugged her back, it felt good. I miss her. She said she wanted to talk so I said come upstairs into the bedroom where its private. We sat on the floor. She said I was supposed to come here today to tell you I don't love you and its over, I can't do that. She said she loves me. It felt good to hear, she was emotional, and I haven't been able to turn off my feelings so we talked for about 20 minutes. She said she is "dating" this guy I had pegged for months, acting like it is fresh out of the laundry. She said she kissed him but (made bad face) and said i just knew it wasn't romantic. Mind you I didn't believe a fing word of that. She left, kept my ring, and the whole thing bothered me all day. I felt played. I reached out to her late that evening and said I want to talk. She didn't want to. She called me the next am and was like a different person. Mean as a snake, vile, yelling, just awful. Hung up on me, and made my decision about everything much easier. I composed a lengthy email to her and the guy, set some things straight, polite, abrupt, pointed, hit send then blocked her on all platforms I can think of. I feel a great sense of relief, and I am 100% sure she will regret the impulsive stupidity of what she has done, the relationships she has ruined, it will just take some time. I read a bit on mid-life crises for women. Looks like she fits all the criteria. Good luck to the golden boy, they only last 2-5 years of *****iness, unpredictability, low sex drive...sounds like fun. Don't get me wrong here, I still spontaneously cry out of sheer frustration for having worked so hard to get through raising kids, thinking I had a perfect companion, only to be completely blindsided on the goal line. Will take a long long time for me to trust someone with my heart again- I'd be willing to bet Never. Sad but true.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

This woman sounds insane. Stay the **** away from her.

And, relative to your daughter, the fact that some siblings were taken in by this woman and sided with her does not mean that your daughter had this woman pegged wrong. I hope you can see now that your daughter was right all along about her. The behavior you describe is straight out of the Cluster B playbook. You have a personality disordered woman on your hands. This woman alienated your daughter, as she knew your daughter was on to her.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Bud any contact resets the clock. You like a lot have to write a long letter. They both probably had a good laugh at you over it.
Her words don’t mean a thing. Mid life crisis is an excuse for her actions. Their is no excuse.
Stay zero contact or suffer more. No one can make you a chump but yourself.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Comes over, makes sure you’re still on the hook to keep her ego boosted, takes off. Leaves you in stitches.
So when you unblock her, she does this crap again….. leaves you wondering which way is up or down……. Know Charlie Brown that you keep trying to kick her football.
Keep your dignity and stop giving it away to her. You miss her. Let it sink in, the kind of person you’re missing.


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## AGoodFlogging (Dec 19, 2020)

I hope you are still reading these last few posts OP, they are some good advice.

She is well and truly under your skin and you need a total break from her to sort your head out.

She is the proverbial leopard with unchangeable spots and she is not happy with who she is so don't expect the truth from her any time soon. She is a cheater, you know it, act on that and sever contact, don't waste more time as all she is doing is trying to rewrite history so that it covers up who she is. Keeping you ****ed up helps her do that.


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

Marc878 said:


> Bud any contact resets the clock. You like a lot have to write a long letter. They both probably had a good laugh at you over it.
> Her words don’t mean a thing. Mid life crisis is an excuse for her actions. Their is no excuse.
> Stay zero contact or suffer more. No one can make you a chump but yourself.


They definitely did not have a god laugh over it I assure you that. It may not have had the impact I wanted it to but I said some things that had to be said. For me I could not move on with her fake narrative, fake timelines, and the fake **** she told him. I set some things straight, and there is no way he doesn't have a seed of doubt about what kind of ride he is in for if he takes the time to read it. He too has a lot to lose if he invests wrong, and I think given her repeated history, lies and deceit, he may be a little gun shy at this point. I don't care if they ride a white horse off into the sunset, I did this for me. 

You are right about resetting the clock in a way, and I think no contact will eventually help me get moving in a positive direction. I never in my life thought I would be on this forum. Every day I walk around in complete disbelief. I trusted her so much.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

crushed2x said:


> They definitely did not have a god laugh over it I assure you that. It may not have had the impact I wanted it to but I said some things that had to be said. For me I could not move on with her fake narrative, fake timelines, and the fake **** she told him. I set some things straight, and there is no way he doesn't have a seed of doubt about what kind of ride he is in for if he takes the time to read it. He too has a lot to lose if he invests wrong, and I think given her repeated history, lies and deceit, he may be a little gun shy at this point. I don't care if they ride a white horse off into the sunset, I did this for me.
> 
> You are right about resetting the clock in a way, and I think no contact will eventually help me get moving in a positive direction. I never in my life thought I would be on this forum. Every day I walk around in complete disbelief. I trusted her so much.


He doesn't matter, because once she's free, he will likely abandon her.


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> This woman sounds insane. Stay the **** away from her.
> 
> And, relative to your daughter, the fact that some siblings were taken in by this woman and sided with her does not mean that your daughter had this woman pegged wrong. I hope you can see now that your daughter was right all along about her. The behavior you describe is straight out of the Cluster B playbook. You have a personality disordered woman on your hands. This woman alienated your daughter, as she knew your daughter was on to her.


So hard for me to wrap my head around. I saw no signs of any disorder and my ex was definitely BPD. My daughter may be as well, but I can see now from a different vantage point that there is clearly some validity. It doesn't change the fact that I am in shock, and my heart is so fing broken I don't know how to get through each day. I need an infidelity support group, medication, or both. I'm not in a good way and there is NO fix other than time.


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> Comes over, makes sure you’re still on the hook to keep her ego boosted, takes off. Leaves you in stitches.
> So when you unblock her, she does this crap again….. leaves you wondering which way is up or down……. Know Charlie Brown that you keep trying to kick her football.
> Keep your dignity and stop giving it away to her. You miss her. Let it sink in, the kind of person you’re missing.


I am trying bud. And this forum has helped me SO much. People are so nice to take the time to give advice from a detached position, and many or most from going through something similar. I'm just broken. I have never cried like this in my life. I am 54, just left my last two kids at college, I'm all alone and had my future kind of figured out. Everything fell apart like a bomb hit, and I don't know which direction to even crawl in. I am pretty messed up. You can't just shut off love and deep emotion in one day, but I have been telling myself she is never going to be a part of my life again every single hour of the day. i am trying to picture the summer, in a new place, maybe even with a new woman, smiling again. 

I blocked her on all accounts, and I will not unblock her. I haven't blocked then unblocked so far. Yesterday was a big day for me in moving forward. Today I tell my kids, with the exception of my son, who loves her maybe more than me. I don't want him to be mad at me and I believe that's the position he will take. The kid got slaughtered by his real mom, and I don't think he is mentally/emotionally capable of dealing with another similar situation. He just wants it to go away.

Thank you for your help


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

If it helps, a lot of us were pretty decimated. As you know from experience, when you are married to the cheater, not only do you deal with the emotional trauma, but, often the financial hit is massive. Not to minimize your pain, but try to take solace that you never married this vampire. Your recovery will be hastened by a firm commitment to no contact. Just resist. It gets easier with time.
54, man I wish I was that young again. My divorce was 15 years ago. I was 52. The dating opportunities were plentiful.


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> If it helps, a lot of us were pretty decimated. As you know from experience, when you are married to the cheater, not only do you deal with the emotional trauma, but, often the financial hit is massive. Not to minimize your pain, but try to take solace that you never married this vampire. Your recovery will be hastened by a firm commitment to no contact. Just resist. It gets easier with time.
> 54, man I wish I was that young again. My divorce was 15 years ago. I was 52. The dating opportunities were plentiful.


Well not having to go through the finncial mess again is a serious bonus. Last time it was two years, then a one year appeal by the ex. Cost several hundred thousand dollars. Disgusting. But in the end I got the opportunity to raise my kids and for that, any price would have been worth it.

I am not worried about dating "opportunity", as I never seem to have had a problem with that. I'm certainly not 25, lost some hair, but in good shape(once I gain back the pounds I didn't need to lose/down 23 and losing daily) I am a decent looking guy and I have done well financially, but that stuff means nothing to me.

What bothers me is the fact that I just won't have a life partner. The cheater and I had raised our kids together, after the divorce. Pulled each other out of deep dark holes, and stood by each other with pride. It just felt like we would always be together and maybe I took that for granted. Not blaming myself for her **ing someones ** it just tears me up that I had another failure. I pride myself on succeeding, and I worked hard at it, and it went off the rails.

I need an outlet, like an infidelity group or something. I am retired- I have no idea what to do with myself all day. She's just gone. And I don't even want to wake up in the morning. I have been selling things around my house, and I want to move to a smaller place, but when I look at new homes I feel so ridiculously lonely its just not going to be possible. Plus I raised my kids here, and I am going through some empty nest stuff too on top of this infidelity Sh**. Just so messed up on so many levels. I was around my house all day saying I just can't believe it. I never will.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Well, ok. No signs of a disorder? This woman cheated on her husband with his cousin because her husband worked too much, as I recall. She lived with the cousin for 10 years exposing her kids to him. She " worked" 100 hours a week. She got down to 85lbs. She was okay with you refurbishing her house with your money. These are big red flags for a personality disorder. 
Bigger signs are now manifesting themselves, like additional cheating and that insane interaction about Thanksgiving. She is doing the classic push/pull of a BPD, combined with gaslighting. 
So, yeah, there were signs and you got taken in. Many of us did by our spouses. 
I had to look in the mirror. Why did I overlook signs a healthier person would not have? 
These folks do target certain types, primarily trusting nice guys. But, there is as also some hubris on our parts, knowing what we did about them, but overlooking it because, in my case, " I am special, so special she would not cheat on me."
****, I knew my XWs, both of them, had cheated with married men. What hubris to think they wo UK ld change for me.
You are retired. Maybe try volunteering, doing charitable work. Rescue dogs or something.


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## ArthurGPym (Jun 28, 2021)

It is pretty clear to me reading your updates that you have some very serious codependency issues. Everyone here is focusing on your WW's obvious mental issues, but I think yours are just as dangerous. Please, please, please get into some counseling with a therapist who is versed in codependency and PTSD: someone who can fit you with the tools to extricate yourself from this abusive relationship you have with your ex-wife.


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## blackclover3 (Apr 23, 2021)

our brains trick us to think negative - you might enjoy being single until you meet the one - find yourself, travel, meet new people/ladies. if it was me, I will travel Europe, visit every site and museum. I will travel to Greenland with a nice Telescope and Cam. 

Dont worry about your kids - or the one who love her the most, they will eventually come around and they will understand once they get married. 

this is a new chapter - similar to when you moved out your parents house to college or when you got you first own place. we are scared at first, worried about failing.


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

ArthurGPym said:


> It is pretty clear to me reading your updates that you have some very serious codependency issues. Everyone here is focusing on your WW's obvious mental issues, but I think yours are just as dangerous. Please, please, please get into some counseling with a therapist who is versed in codependency and PTSD: someone who can fit you with the tools to extricate yourself from this abusive relationship you have with your ex-wife.


Thanks for your reply. I don't have any of the signs of co dependency from what I know, just going through a very emotional time and hard letting go of a woman I believed in. She on the other hand, has every single trait of the definition of co-dependency, and I didn't previously even know what that is. She was always saying,"Im just not good enough" "I'll never get it right" Didn't have one relationship outside of ours, not one hobby, nothing. Our relationship defined who she was. I am, and was through the relationship, just the opposite. I am in counseling, and I believe I need someone versed in PTSD or PTIS because I have been through a lot, and I am not just referring to divorce and infidelity. A real lot.


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

blackclover3 said:


> our brains trick us to think negative - you might enjoy being single until you meet the one - find yourself, travel, meet new people/ladies. if it was me, I will travel Europe, visit every site and museum. I will travel to Greenland with a nice Telescope and Cam.
> 
> Dont worry about your kids - or the one who love her the most, they will eventually come around and they will understand once they get married.
> 
> this is a new chapter - similar to when you moved out your parents house to college or when you got you first own place. we are scared at first, worried about failing.


Thanks. I will eventually bounce back. And I will probably have fun meeting people and new women at some point, but right now my mind is just broken. I never thought I would trust after my ex wife cheating, and maybe my WW co-dependency issues made me feel extra safe. Everything she did she did for us. I always felt safe and I feel so duped, it is just overwhelming. I will get there, I hope. But I will forever be disappointed that I didn't get forever with the woman who saved my life when I was in the depths of hell. I loved her more than anyone I have ever loved without question, and trusted her more too. I will never completely trust again. It Is just a mess..


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

What is interesting to me is not one single person, since the day I posted has ever said this is something that is savable or fixable. Very telling, very sad and I guess most importantly, very accurate. I always enjoy seeing/hearing both side of the coin, but it looks like this coin has two heads.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

You should’ve just sent the texts.

Hell, maybe you still can.


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

GusPolinski said:


> You should’ve just sent the texts.
> 
> Hell, maybe you still can.


i don't understand this...please clarify


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

crushed2x said:


> i don't understand this...please clarify





GusPolinski said:


> Send her this in two separate texts:
> 
> “Cheaters cheat; that’s what and who you are, and that’s what you do. It is and will forever be your legacy.”
> 
> ...


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

I sent something very similar although longer, in an email,, and immediately blocked all contact last Friday


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Might not be the last you hear from her, somremain committed to not responding however she may make contact.

On the codependency deal, IMO it is diagnosed way too often. In many cases, there is so much entanglement and enmeshment( like kids to consider, mortgages, finances, marriage vows etc), that a betrayed stays due to a desire not to destroy kids'lives or be destroyed financially. This seems to be somewhat true for you as regards your kids' attachment to her and your concern that now two moms, one kind of a surrogate, have abandoned them. But, fortunately, you have no legal or financial entanglements.
It seems you are starting to realize what this woman is and are acting accordingly. This is not a situation where you are signing up for more abuse, like a codependent person would. Having doubts, feeling sad, wavering a bit does not make you codependent. It is very early in the game here. You are making good progress. 
I am on my own now. I have my kids, but they are grown and have their own lives. I am pretty happy, although, as mentioned, it is my belief that life always contains a fair dose of pain and hardship for everyone and happiness creeps in occassionally. 
Your life with this woman, had it continued, would have been infinitely more painful than what is in front of you now.
I harp on on this a bit, because it applies to me. I brought a personality disordered woman into my boys' lives. My son with Down Syndrome and autism was less affected. My other son was badly damaged and I will feel guilty until the day I die. My son and I are close, as close as one can be to a heroin addict. There is no doubt in my mind that his mother's chemical dependency and infidelity, as well as the mistreatment he experienced from his stepmother, play a role in his becoming an addict.
So, please see if you can repair the relationship with your eldest.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Working with a professional on your codependency issues would help you.
You don’t recognize them… and that issue is really causing you some serious harm.

Your happiness is way too dependent on her.


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

Beach123 said:


> Working with a professional on your codependency issues would help you.
> You don’t recognize them… and that issue is really causing you some serious harm.
> 
> Your happiness is way too dependent on her.


my happiness WAS tied to her but not dependent on her. I realize already the future doesn't have any place for her in my life, and I will be happy without her.. probably happier than i would have been had she stayed. As I have said, my biggest disappointment in this is the lack of continuity and long term shared experiences the next person in my life most likely will not have unless it is someone from my past which I guess could happen.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Chaparralredux said:


> You should stop going to therapy with her immediately. This is your way of doing the pick me dance. The dance that never works. If you had/have any chance you need to go no contact with her and stand up for yourself. If she does ask you why you're stopping, simply tell her there is no point sitting there and watching her lie her ass off. Show some anger instead of whipped puppy dog.
> From your first post, it sounds like she was never all in. Like there was always some reason to keep a certain amount of distance between the two of you. Now that the time has come that nothing stands in the way, she turns on you.
> 
> You seem to be doing well for yourself. Do not contact her. See how long it takes for her to contact you. Hire a PI to see what he can find for your piece of mind.
> ...


This is correct.

Stop being weak, needy, codependent. Stop chasing her, stop pursuing her. Stop the marriage counseling immediately, it’s ridiculous.

It’s pathetic and it’s further degrading your dignity and self-respect, and destroying any remaining respect she might still have for you. If nothing else, show your children a strong, competent man, rather than a weak, pathetic doormat.

Please start acting with strength, in your own best interest. Please stop tolerating this behavior immediately.


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

Chaparralredux said:


> You should stop going to therapy with her immediately. This is your way of doing the pick me dance. The dance that never works. If you had/have any chance you need to go no contact with her and stand up for yourself. If she does ask you why you're stopping, simply tell her there is no point sitting there and watching her lie her ass off. Show some anger instead of whipped puppy dog.
> From your first post, it sounds like she was never all in. Like there was always some reason to keep a certain amount of distance between the two of you. Now that the time has come that nothing stands in the way, she turns on you.
> 
> You seem to be doing well for yourself. Do not contact her. See how long it takes for her to contact you. Hire a PI to see what he can find for your piece of mind.
> ...


I never went to therapy with her. We had one call 2 days after D day with a person we had talked to about my daughter years ago. It was a forum for her to assassinate my character. Never did it again I shut her off and blocked ALL outlets on Friday and will probably never speak to her again. Best day emotionally I’ve had since D day and going out tomorrow night with friends and Thursday night with my daughter. Not going to be a puppy dog for long. I realize it’s a looong road but I’m going to push rather than lie down.


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

DudeInProgress said:


> This is correct.
> 
> Stop being weak, needy, codependent. Stop chasing her, stop pursuing her. Stop the marriage counseling immediately, it’s ridiculous.
> 
> ...


I have no idea what pathetic behavior you’re talking about. I haven’t talked to her, she stopped by on thanksgiving, played me and I shut her off the next day from any and all contact. She’s blocked on everything. I think that’s pretty good from D day to no contact in 20 days. And very many of those 20 days were no contact. She’s moved on. I need to accept it and move on too. Going to be a while before I feel great but I think I’m starting down a different path- anger. And it feels good.

we never did really consider counseling but had one meeting with a counselor we had used previously. It sucked. Sorry if that’s too pathetic for you.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

crushed2x said:


> I have no idea what pathetic behavior you’re talking about. I haven’t talked to her, she stopped by on thanksgiving, played me and I shut her off the next day from any and all contact. She’s blocked on everything. I think that’s pretty good from D day to no contact in 20 days. And very many of those 20 days were no contact. She’s moved on. I need to accept it and move on too. Going to be a while before I feel great but I think I’m starting down a different path- anger. And it feels good.
> 
> we never did really consider counseling but had one meeting with a counselor we had used previously. It sucked. Sorry if that’s too pathetic for you.


You're doing good. I think he was reading your earlier posts, where you did think that supplicating to the wife "might" win her back somehow. 
You're doing very well now, once you realized that doing 180 was the only viable route.


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## blackclover3 (Apr 23, 2021)

crushed2x said:


> Thanks. I will eventually bounce back. And I will probably have fun meeting people and new women at some point, but right now my mind is just broken. I never thought I would trust after my ex wife cheating, and maybe my WW co-dependency issues made me feel extra safe. Everything she did she did for us. I always felt safe and I feel so duped, it is just overwhelming. I will get there, I hope. But I will forever be disappointed that I didn't get forever with the woman who saved my life when I was in the depths of hell. I loved her more than anyone I have ever loved without question, and trusted her more too. I will never completely trust again. It Is just a mess..


there is no thing called Trust in this life and age. you can trust but to a limit. Men should have the jealousy instinct in them. this Jealousy could've prevented many affair. of course there is a limit to Jealousy. I firmly believe, a man cant be just a friend with a married woman, and Married man cant just be friend with a single or married woman. call me old style or crazy but I will never allow my wife to go clubbing or to the bars with her girl friends or allow her to text or chat to someone from work after 5pm. I do check her phone every once and a while. she never hinted or showed any signs of being unfaithful or anything close to it. 

Women should do the same thing. 

Sometimes I'm blown away with guys allowing their wives to go out on a girls night out clubbing or bars.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

I haven’t talked to her, she stopped by on thanksgiving, played me and I shut her off the next day from any and all contact. She’s blocked on everything. I think that’s pretty good from D day to no contact in 20 days. And very many of those 20 days were no contact


^^^^ those are your words. Can you see how many times you contradict yourself? I don’t know what Your definition is of no contact. But I believe you have no idea what it actually entails.


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

crushed2x said:


> I have no idea what pathetic behavior you’re talking about. I haven’t talked to her, she stopped by on thanksgiving, played me and I shut her off the next day from any and all contact. She’s blocked on everything. I think that’s pretty good from D day to no contact in 20 days. And very many of those 20 days were no contact. She’s moved on. I need to accept it and move on too. Going to be a while before I feel great but I think I’m starting down a different path- anger. And it feels good.
> 
> we never did really consider counseling but had one meeting with a counselor we had used previously. It sucked. Sorry if that’s too pathetic for you.


Be strong. From what I've seen here, no matter how much of a s!mp someone was, they can turn that around and feel good about themselves moving forward. You have a chance to turn this around. If you stick to your guns and follow through, you'll feel good about yourself a year from now. If you backtrack and let her back in (no matter how briefly), you are going to feel bad about it.

From this day forward, be a hard ass!


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

Beach123 said:


> I haven’t talked to her, she stopped by on thanksgiving, played me and I shut her off the next day from any and all contact. She’s blocked on everything. I think that’s pretty good from D day to no contact in 20 days. And very many of those 20 days were no contact
> 
> 
> ^^^^ those are your words. Can you see how many times you contradict yourself? I don’t know what Your definition is of no contact. But I believe you have no idea what it actually entails.


contradict how? I blocked her from every source available to her friday. I haven't changed that or contradicted that. I also said that over the first 20 days there were a lot of no contact days but I realize I hadn't gone "no contact" yet. That started day 20, as I said, and I am pretty clear on that. It has been a very long 5 days, honestly.


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

Galabar01 said:


> Be strong. From what I've seen here, no matter how much of a s!mp someone was, they can turn that around and feel good about themselves moving forward. You have a chance to turn this around. If you stick to your guns and follow through, you'll feel good about yourself a year from now. If you backtrack and let her back in (no matter how briefly), you are going to feel bad about it.
> 
> From this day forward, be a hard ass!


This is great advice. I pulled my ass off the couch last night and went out with several friends to a hockey game. I had zero interest and still haven't been eating much, but I went. It showed me some hope for at least some fun times ahead. Didn't solve my problems, but gave me a glimpse of something positive. That's all I have to hold onto right now are the nuggets of hope, and the kind intelligent words from this forum. Thanks


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

crushed2x said:


> contradict how? I blocked her from every source available to her friday. I haven't changed that or contradicted that. I also said that over the first 20 days there were a lot of no contact days but I realize I hadn't gone "no contact" yet. That started day 20, as I said, and I am pretty clear on that. It has been a very long 5 days, honestly.


We just want to make sure you do what is best for you. Most of us are also aware of how difficult it is to do what we are requesting you do. It isn't easy to completely block somebody you have known and loved for years. That's how powerful hopeium is.


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

I sut her off on last Friday. I am struggling a lot today. My biggest setback is she is now talking to my friends, and in fact my best friends wife telling them "i never cheated on him" and even on the same exact day she came here and told me she is "dating" this new guy she spoke to my friends wife on the phone an hour earlier and told her the guy I had told my friends wife she was seeing a couple months ago, "we are just friends". I had a guy friend see her out two nights later holding hands and kissing her "friend" It's not bad enough to try to just say F her about the cheating, but now she's hitting close to home with my son, and my best friends and sowing her lies. Makes it all fresh every day.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

crushed2x said:


> I sut her off on last Friday. I am struggling a lot today. My biggest setback is she is now talking to my friends, and in fact my best friends wife telling them "i never cheated on him" and even on the same exact day she came here and told me she is "dating" this new guy she spoke to my friends wife on the phone an hour earlier and told her the guy I had told my friends wife she was seeing a couple months ago, "we are just friends". I had a guy friend see her out two nights later holding hands and kissing her "friend" It's not bad enough to try to just say F her about the cheating, but now she's hitting close to home with my son, and my best friends and sowing her lies. Makes it all fresh every day.


Public Facebook post —

“Yes, she cheated. No, she’s not going to admit it. Cheaters never do. 🤷🏻‍♂️“


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

GusPolinski said:


> Public Facebook post —
> 
> “Yes, she cheated. No, she’s not going to admit it. Cheaters never do. 🤷🏻‍♂️“


I agree and understand, what pisses me off is why do they have to go on a lying and smear campaign. Isn't it bad enough you cheated and upended my life? Now you have to make it my fault and lie to my kids and my best friends...hurts more, and more than it should. Makes healing harder


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

crushed2x said:


> I agree and understand, what pisses me off is why do they have to go on a lying and smear campaign. Isn't it bad enough you cheated and upended my life? Now you have to make it my fault and lie to my kids and my best friends...hurts more, and more than it should. Makes healing harder


An addendum: 

“Ask yourself this — why is she calling you out of the blue to tell you she didn’t cheat?

Hell, it’s not even the first time she’s done this. Years ago she cheated on her husband… with his own cousin.

Please — if you have nothing else to say to me, please just leave me alone and let me heal.”


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

GusPolinski said:


> An addendum:
> 
> “Ask yourself this — why is she calling you out of the blue to tell you she didn’t cheat?
> 
> ...


I have no lines of communication open with her. She is now hitting my friends and my kids with the self-preservation calls and texts. I can't say the above, I'm not opening up communication again. I just don't know why people who break your heart have to keep breaking it over and over again for their own benefit, its awful


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

GusPolinski said:


> Public Facebook post —
> 
> “Yes, she cheated. No, she’s not going to admit it. Cheaters never do. 🤷🏻‍♂️“


too much respect for her kids, and Mine, believe me I have written it on my phone and thought about it a lot. I also don't need the backlash from her troops that have been assembled behind my back for who knows how long..


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

crushed2x said:


> I have no lines of communication open with her. She is now hitting my friends and my kids with the self-preservation calls and texts. I can't say the above, I'm not opening up communication again. I just don't know why people who break your heart have to keep breaking it over and over again for their own benefit, its awful


You misunderstand — I meant that to be the second part of a public Facebook post that YOU could post. Hence the quotes. You’d basically be saying that (along with my post before that) to your FB friends and any mutual FB friends — and anyone else that wound up stalking your FB page, which you can bet she’s doing right now. Doesn’t matter if she’s blocked, she’ll just open another account to stalk you.

She’s out to protect (or salvage, really) her reputation. Waywards hate the truth like cockroaches hate sunlight.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

crushed2x said:


> too much respect for her kids, and Mine, believe me I have written it on my phone and thought about it a lot. I also don't need the backlash from her troops that have been assembled behind my back for who knows how long..


You don’t have to mention her by name.

And if she weren’t smearing you there’d be nothing to say, right?


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

crushed2x said:


> too much respect for her kids, and Mine, believe me I have written it on my phone and thought about it a lot. I also don't need the backlash from her troops that have been assembled behind my back for who knows how long..


You have to have respect for yourself, before you can have it for anyone else.
She is spewing lies, you would be merely presenting the facts.
Allow people to draw their own conclusions.
Reasonable people will see her for what she is.
If they don't, they really aren't worth your time anyway.


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## skerzoid (Feb 7, 2017)

You are still refusing to see the forest for the trees.

No contact.

Drop it.

You are trying to reason with a mentally ill person.

Walk away from anyone that is her ally.

You are trying to understand because you believed in her. It was a fantasy. 

Accept it and walk away.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

crushed2x said:


> I sut her off on last Friday. I am struggling a lot today. My biggest setback is she is now talking to my friends, and in fact my best friends wife telling them "i never cheated on him" and even on the same exact day she came here and told me she is "dating" this new guy she spoke to my friends wife on the phone an hour earlier and told her the guy I had told my friends wife she was seeing a couple months ago, "we are just friends". I had a guy friend see her out two nights later holding hands and kissing her "friend" It's not bad enough to try to just say F her about the cheating, but now she's hitting close to home with my son, and my best friends and sowing her lies. Makes it all fresh every day.


Just make sure that you explain to these friends that she is full of sh*t and trying to re-write the history of what went down to make HER look better. Then, you can explain that you'd rather they NOT talk with her about this.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Best way to react is to laugh and roll your eyes, something to that effect. Folks that believe her were never your true friends. Stay dark.

Many of us faced smearing. Weeds out non friends.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

GusPolinski said:


> You misunderstand — I meant that to be the second part of a public Facebook post that YOU could post. Hence the quotes. You’d basically be saying that (along with my post before that) to your FB friends and any mutual FB friends — and anyone else that wound up stalking your FB page, which you can bet she’s doing right now. Doesn’t matter if she’s blocked, she’ll just open another account to stalk you.
> 
> She’s out to protect (or salvage, really) her reputation. Waywards hate the truth like ****roaches hate sunlight.


I know a couple where the WW had been gaslighting him for months and months and basically convincing him he was crazy and was all his fault and that he was a “controlling” and paranoid narcissist.

He eventually hid cameras in the house and bedroom and posted actual pictures of her and her female lover getting it on and then posted directly to her friends, family and supporters asking if they still thought it was all in his head. 

He blurred out most of their faces and lady bits and didn’t use names so I don’t think anything ever came of it legally. 

He did take some heat and had some accusations of vengeance and defamation from her family for posting their dirty laundry publicly, but it definitely shut up the people saying he was being paranoid and controlling and that it was in his head.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

crushed2x said:


> too much respect for her kids, and Mine, believe me I have written it on my phone and thought about it a lot. I also don't need the backlash from her troops that have been assembled behind my back for who knows how long..


Because tgey do not k ow the truthbecause the betrayed usually clam up so they only hear the cheaters side of things. What do you expect them to believe if you ain't talking. Do the kids know the truth?


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> Because tgey do not k ow the truthbecause the betrayed usually clam up so they only hear the cheaters side of things. What do you expect them to believe if you ain't talking. Do the kids know the truth?


three of my four know. I am actually afraid to have the discussion with my son. He’s 25 and as I’ve said on here this woman picked him up and loved him when his own mother wouldn’t. I don’t think he cares what she did to me and it would break my heart to confirm that with some **** about “I’m going to have a relationship with her regardless”which is his right but it’s how he acts almost mad at me for telling him things sometimes. And he has or will be told by her “I did NOT CHEAT on your father”. Would love opinions on how to discuss this with him. He’s a good kid. And she was good to him.


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## 352525 (Dec 4, 2021)

crushed2x said:


> father of 4 (54). Got divorced in 2009 after my wife had an affair, and she wasn't in a place to try to work on anything. Her head was somewhere else. I got custody of my 4 kids, and raised them. 2 were 6, and the other two 11 and 12. Shortly after I met, or connected with a high school alum two years younger than me. I didn't know her, but I fell in love with her very slowly and cautiously. I know what people are going to say already- boy are you stupid- but here goes. She had told me that she had dated her husband through all of high school and college, never partied and was the valedictorian. All true. She then told me in a round about convoluted way that she got divorced because her husband worked too much, and didn't have any time for her....The truth came out in pieces...She had gone away to a family reunion(his side) and her husband got drunk and went to bed early. She hung out with his cousins etc...no mention of what went on. Next day someone has to drive a cousin to the airport, and she gets elected. Husband too hung over. They drive, Have conversation, etc, and "a hug goodbye was not just a hug" She felt something. (I already feel so finG stupid). She continues a phone relationship with him, her husband taps the phones and hears a lot of sex talk etc and they divorce. SHE ENDS UP dating him, him living in her house for 10 plus years with her 2 little kids a mile from her ex. Horrid story, unless you met her. So sweet, so kind, compassionate, honest...well, maybe not.
> 
> I took it very slow. I had been through an ugly divorce. Very ugly, and she both helped me and watched my ex abuse everyone. We vowed to be faithful, but not marry. I gave her a ring, as a promise to stay together. forever She fell in love quickly. We had a great relationship for 5 years. I had dated a lot, been married etc, and when I say this relationship was the best I mean by a MILE. Many miles. after 5 years, She took a new job and worked over 100 hours some weeks, traveling up to 5 days a week, and the relationship cooled, but it was still great and I knew I could always count on her. She was supposed to move in permanently but never did. Always an excuse, when this one goes to school, when that one goes, etc. She did stay over a lot, but this always bothered me. Never sold her house, changed her address, license, mail, etc. Did not "move in". Although she claims she did.
> 
> My kids adored her, but my oldest girl started to get jealous and try to get her in trouble with me constantly. SO also seemed to have issues of jealousy toward my oldest daughter as well. There was always a rub. It grew into a huge problem so when my daughter graduated college and moved home, SO left and went to her beach house an hour and a half away. recipe for disaster. I knew it, and I predicted it. she worked a lot and i visited when i could. She rarely came home. We have been together almost 12 years now, and with the twins going off to college this past september, I believed it was OUR Time! Finally. I asked her to go away for her birthday in sept, she didn't want to. I thought that was very weird. She has been starting fights constantly for a few months at least, about nothing, and acting different. less intimate, hugging, etc...I had a scheduled trip to go on this late Oct/early Nov., and what do you know, she started a GIANT fight right before I left. GIANT, about Nothing. For no reason and about the past and decisions we made together she now resents, and she went to the meanest places she's ever gone(my ex). I was floored. She's never been a yeller but has developed this 'Im going to say the meanest sh** I can when I'm upset to get you mad. She even said "you want out of this relationship but don't have the balls to do it" I don't. I LOVE her to the ends of the earth. That has Never changed. While I was gone all i could think about was her. I sent her messages but she never replied. She sent me an email(weird) "I need to get coats from your house". She also texted my son, my best friend's wife, my mom and another friend "when is he coming back" but never asked me. I didn't know any of this, but had a serious gut instinct kick in when I was away and immediately came home. I f I'm being honest I had some signs over the past few months and they all started eating at me. I drove from Iowa to RI, to her house and she said this relationship has to end. I was pretty surprised but also not based on the recent crazy arguments we had had. I said I respect that, but I came here to look you in the eye and ask is there another guy. Her reply "yes but not on that level", then she started spewing a bunch of stuff about "meeting a lot of people guys and girls' and nothing physical, "get a lie detector test". I said no need for that, just go get me your phone. Her reply "Im not going to do that it would break your heart" We talked for a couple hours, she screamed and yelled and deflected from the elephant in the room as much as she could. I stayed calm and when about to leave I said, its been 11 1/2 years, I think you owe me the truth about the guy. she stared into space, her eyes welled up with tears and she said "i don't want this to be my legacy" and stopped. I said like because you did this before? She acted confused and started talking about a ton of other rubbish I redirected her and she pretended to not remember even saying it. It had been one minute. She asked me to leave, and I did. A day or so later she sent me a text "I did nothing wrong and I am tired of your insinuations, they are further dividing us". I said you admitted it. She is disagreeing. She did. 100% I have been sick for weeks. I couldn't sleep or eat while I was away, I have lost 19 pounds, had cardiac irregularities, can't sleep..shaking from anxiety...just really sick. I trusted her to the ends of the earth. She won't call, text, or reply. when there has been any communication she Is trying to say I made this mistake or that(and I made some mistakes but not infidelity or stuff like that) for many years and she's angry with me. Also says I am trying to make this about a guy, and it isn't -it is about how much I suck I guess, or what I chose to do for the kids in 2015 or something Don't get me wrong, I have admitted and apologized for my mistakes, lack of judgment, anger, immature handling of situations etc. I am human- and I thought we were in Love.. Funny she just wrote me a long email about "what a great man you are" a few months ago...She says she Needs time to sort it out....with her own therapist, and she isn't communicating with me but suddenly is reaching out to my kids and mom........THOUGHTS TBH, I am heartbroken, truly heartbroken. I trusted her, and I still love her, and I wanted our future together- to the end. I can't imagine this is just how abruptly our story just ends. Way too much good and way too many years of raising kids together, trips all over the place, vacations, and the best intimacy I have ever experienced. Im sick


punch out dude. I should have 38 years ago.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

I just never got into a debate with anyone re my XWS' cheating. Never tried to convince anyone. Just acted like it was a well,known, accepted fact, not really worth arguing over. Acted like I was not terribly invested in convincing anyone. Just tried to give off a sort of nonchalant confidence about it . Of course many people that knew my Xs, were aware of their proclivities for cheating, historically, so it was not too difficult having my version accepted.
You do hold a Trump card here, her past cheating with her husband's cousin no less, which is probably known and has affected her reputation already.
It may not, at this time, anyway, be persuasive to your son, but, eventually it may be, particularly if he sees others believe you.
You have to sort of finesse getting your version out. There is this concept called "Fundamental Attribution Error " that you need to be aware of. Read up on it so you will know how to act.
Essentially, it describes how third parties, unaware of the full picture ( in infidelity's case, extreme trauma and abuse of th he betrayed), see only your behavior, not the underlying cause of it, an judge you based only on what they observe.
Classic example, a simple one, is a person driving like a maniac, running stop signs etc. Observers think the driver is crazed. In reality, the driver's kid is in the backseat choking or something and they are rushing to the ER.
A common mistake traumatized betrayed folks make is not realizing that any display of erratic behavior, anger etc. Is viewed by outsiders who are, most likely, unaware that the betrayed person is responding to trauma and abuse. They just see the extreme behavior which they feel lends credence to the narrative your cheater is invariably spinning about you.
This is my long winded way of saying be calm. Do not plead your case too strongly. Act non- invested in convincing folks. You come off as way more credible this way and do not lend any support to your cheater 's narrative.


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> I just never got into a debate with anyone re my XWS' cheating. Never tried to convince anyone. Just acted like it was a well,known, accepted fact, not really worth arguing over. Acted like I was not terribly invested in convincing anyone. Just tried to give off a sort of nonchalant confidence about it . Of course many people that knew my Xs, were aware of their proclivities for cheating, historically, so it was not too difficult having my version accepted.
> You do hold a Trump card here, her past cheating with her husband's cousin no less, which is probably known and has affected her reputation already.
> It may not, at this time, anyway, be persuasive to your son, but, eventually it may be, particularly if he sees others believe you.
> You have to sort of finesse getting your version out. There is this concept called "Fundamental Attribution Error " that you need to be aware of. Read up on it so you will know how to act.
> ...


This is spot on advice. I have been passionate with some friends about this and got the feeling they were thinking exactly what you describe here. I had a great discussion with my son. He was great, listened, didn't say a whole lot except she is clearly f'd up right now and obviously needs time and space. I explained that the time and space to have a boyfriend was all the time and space I needed to be in a different universe when she came back to earth, and how I had hoped she'd have come down a couple months ago but that never happened. I got the chance to tell him the truth and he accepts it for what it is. I didn't ask him to feel, act, believe, nothing...just listen. He was great. She's still telling my friends 'were dating but he's 66 and Im not interested in that way" Makes zero sense, a 66 year old multi millionaire would drive 7 hours every weekend to "check on his house" and go on a date with someone that isn't interested in him... And people BUY THIS ****?!?!


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Anyone with half a brain has it figured out. No need for advocacy. 
Good about your son. No editorializing, just facts. Soon she will jettison your son too, I expect.

Her new " benefactor " will not want him around. 
This is one cold, calculating woman. She drained resources from you but has found a new bank now.
Worked 100 plus hours a week, yet required you to pay for upgrades to her house, trips etc. Yeah, right. She was working alright, but not at her job. 
She gets the increased equity in the house now, correct? Gets to keep her ring, eh? New guy is rich as F, right? Glad she was not the beneficiary on your life insurance. You might not be with us.


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## crushed2x (Nov 14, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> Anyone with half a brain has it figured out. No need for advocacy.
> Good about your son. No editorializing, just facts. Soon she will jettison your son too, I expect.
> 
> Her new " benefactor " will not want him around.
> ...


the whole thing just kills me. Yes she has the additional equity in her house. I bought her a 2 carat ring with side stones, she thought it looked small so I upgraded it to three carat. Now it’s “what she holds onto to help her sleep” and “the only thing she has to remind her that at one time she mattered and I actually loved her”. Lot of guilt so she can keep the $35k ring. I don’t think I’ll ever see that again even though we vowed forever and fidelity with the exchange. Her new guy has more money than most. Far more than me. House just went on the market for 12.5 mm and it’s his vacation house. He has a bigger house in PA. I don’t see any other reason she would be interested in him he is 15 years older than her and not a looker by any stretch.

Since I’ve had time to think- I do think my son may have already been told her story. He was great though but seemingly unaffected. I thought he’d be upset but more or less just said she’s f’d up right now.” She needs time and space” of which she will be getting plenty of except from the scrawny older Man suffocating her currently.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

Simple advice. Let her go. She is not worth putting forth any effort.


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