# Venting to anyone who will listen.



## Aboutgivenup (Sep 30, 2013)

This is my first post on here, just joined yesterday and glad I found this site. 

My wife and I have been married for almost 15 years, and we have always had a bit of financial trouble. I hate to blame it all on her, but she has struggled with being financially responsible for most of those 15 years. I mean everyone screws up now and then, but we learn from those mistakes- live and learn. 

Five years ago my job took me to a very rural area where she was unable to find employment, but she kept spending like she was still making money. I'll spare you all the details, but over a two year period she drained our nest egg of 50k, took the kids savings accounts, and borrowed money from friends and family to support her spending and gambling habit. I kicked her out for about a month,but then took her back in with the agreement to do some marriage counseling (for sake of our children). Things got alot better, and a year later I loved her more than ever. I did have to take total control over ALL aspects of our finances. I don't think she like that, but I did openly talk to her often about things she needed. We went grocery shopping together, paid the bills together, and balance the checkbook together. 

A little over a year ago we moved back closer to home and she was employed within a week with a good job in her field. As soon as she gained employment she opened her own bank account, which is fine-I refused to have her on my account because of past problems with her spending and taking checks and then screwing up our finances. Soon after she got a job, I realized she was no longer getting mail at our home, after months of prying she finally admitted to having her own PO Box. I have never seen any of her mail, bank statements, check book register, or anything of a personal nature of hers in over a year. I know she is on her third bank in the last year, I assume due to bad checks, etc. 

I know she cannot manage her money and I want to help, but she will not talk to me about it, she absolutely refuses. I pay the rent and all household bills, because when I relied on her to help with them they were always late, or the checks were returned. Her only obligation to our family is to buy groceries, and her gas and other personal expenses. And she is still broke at the end of every month. 

Several months ago we found a house we really liked and decided to buy it. She has terrible credit so I did all the negotiating. I told her I would only buy the house if she came clean with all of the skeletons in her closet and we act like mature, responsible grownups. I told her I needed to see bank statements, she had to forward her mail to our house, etc. She agreed. Never happened. 

Well it just so happened we had a hard time getting the house due to a second lien, but the realtor called me Friday and they cleared it all up and we are ready to go. I told my wife the good news that evening, but told her that I was not comfortable buying the house until we changed the things in our relationship we had talked about earlier. She has not spoken to me since.

I really do not know how to get through to her. I have tried and tried to talk about our problems with her, and told her I dont care what comes out in the wash - we can work through it. We could have a really good life if she would just act like an adult and be responsible. This morning someone called for her from one of these payday loan places saying her application had been approved. WTH!

I could go on and on but I don't know that would help. I don't know if I want advice, or someone to tell me I am over-reacting, or someone to just feel sorry for me. Is it normal to have everything separate like this? I know she is hiding things from me, but how do I get her to open up? Divorce has been discussed in detail, but I really want my kids to grow up with both parents...


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## Aboutgivenup (Sep 30, 2013)

MissFroggie said:


> You are not over-reacting and I empathise with your situation, although mine was less complicated as we were not married. Where are you located and what are the laws relating to finance and marriage there? It might be worth speaking to a lawyer to find out what your actual risks are and what your rights are. Some places where a partner in a marriage runs up debts the debts are automatically shared debt and not just the person who created them. If that is the case there can sometimes be ways to demand the proof you need and be able to take more control over the situation as it directly affects you. She has a gambling addiction so you already know where the money is going and why she is hiding things from you. I think you would be smart to get this sorted before investing in the house and find out where you stand legally. I've heard of situations where the company paying someone is made to hand over all or part of the pay to the spouse. It totally depends on where you are though and what laws you are under. See if you can get a free initial consultation with a lawyer and write your list of questions - everything you can think of - so you make full use of the free hour. Good luck x


Thanks for the reply. We are in Texas. I really pray it is not the gambling again, I hoped we were past that. But at this point I can deal with anything (besides cheating) if she will just let me in to her personal life.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

You are definitely NOT over reacting. I hate to say this, but I think divorce may be your best option here. Usually people who have this kind of lack of financial sense are not capable of changing. And if she isnt being a partner in the marriage, then really, what is the point of being married? She clearly does not care what kind of burden her actions have on you and your life together. The fact that she has a PO box so that you cannot see what she is up to shows just how far she is gone. Thats just sick. DO NOT buy that house for the two of you, unless it is something that YOU want and can afford all by yourself. I am sorry you are here.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

My ex ran us into a 15K debt that I knew nothing about. She was a stay at home mom & I let her handle most of the finances. I blame myself for not being aware of our finances.
When we divorced, I got stuck with 80% of the debt because I made more money than her. As long as we were married, it was OUR debt. Even after the divorce, creditors still came after me. I would get a lawyer & get a date in writing that you are no longer responsible for any new debts.


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## accept1 (Sep 23, 2013)

No you dont divorce.

It is only your finances in trouble. What you need is a third person who should hold the finances of your wife. 

You although you are the husband in this case are not the best person for it. Maybe a bank manager can be persuaded. It should still be secret from you (I know this is hard to take) but at least you will know that she is not overspending. 

I think she would agree to this as long as it is not you. In time she may come round. 

If you have a house in mind you should buy it. If you need her wages to help pay for it my suggestion is still sound.

Stop talking about divorce there is no need for it here. 

This is really one of the easiest problems on here to solve.

I wish you luck.


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## accept1 (Sep 23, 2013)

MissFroggie said:


> Are you serious? I agree with not getting a divorce but the idea of getting a third party to hold her money is madness - they're married and have shared responsibilities. He absolutely has a right to know how much is there, how big the debts are and what he can do to help THEIR situation. If this was a woman saying her husband was behaving like this I don't think anyone would be saying he could hide his income from her or hide debts that she may later be found liable for. They're a married couple not siblings helping each other out.


 I am very serious!!!!

We are not talking here about a normal marriage. We are talking here about SAVING a marriage. And if you read my many posts you will see I would suggest anything to stop divorce.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

What a very sad sad situation indeed...I give you credit for even being there, holding out ... I would have had to leave a spouse like this, I wouldn't have the patience to deal with it...and the hiding the debt, a pure deal breaker in marriage. 

I found the same question you have with some advice..."Dear Debt Adviser,
*My wife is spending us into bankruptcy. I need a legal means to separate our credit without having to divorce her.*" 

Click on the Link for more links inside to follow ....



> 7 steps to stop an overspending spouse
> 
> *1*.	Talk about money before you get married! That was unfair wasn't it? Sorry, I couldn't resist.
> 
> ...


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Only you can decide what boundaries you will enforce. You have no way to "force" your wife to disclose anything; all you can do is decide whether you will tolerate her hiding things. But most likely, she's got some scary stuff hidden in the closet and will be willing to do pretty much anything to keep you from uncovering it. If you back down from your boundary now, she will know that she can continue ignoring you. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Aboutgivenup (Sep 30, 2013)

I appreciate everyone's input and advice. Divorce has been discussed repeatedly. My biggest problem with that is that she will get the kids. I don't have a problem with paying child support, but I am pretty sure the money won't be handled wisely and then I won't have the money to make sure my kids are taken care of. In other words, if she doesn't pay the bills, my kids will suffer and I won't have the money left after paying child support to bail her out and buy them the things they need. I can't even imagine the thought of my kids having to do without and not be able to help. Seems I'm screwed if I do and screwed if I don,t. At least at my current situation her hands are out of my wallet and her credit is bad enough that she can't acquire any real debt besides maybe those payday loan places. I make enough that I can support our household by myself, but it really isn't fair.


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## accept1 (Sep 23, 2013)

Aboutgivenup said:


> I appreciate everyone's input and advice. Divorce has been discussed repeatedly. My biggest problem with that is that she will get the kids. I don't have a problem with paying child support, but I am pretty sure the money won't be handled wisely and then I won't have the money to make sure my kids are taken care of. In other words, if she doesn't pay the bills, my kids will suffer and I won't have the money left after paying child support to bail her out and buy them the things they need. I can't even imagine the thought of my kids having to do without and not be able to help. Seems I'm screwed if I do and screwed if I don,t. At least at my current situation her hands are out of my wallet and her credit is bad enough that she can't acquire any real debt besides maybe those payday loan places. I make enough that I can support our household by myself, but it really isn't fair.


Perhaps you havent read my post. It has been repeated here already twice.


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## accept1 (Sep 23, 2013)

MissFroggie said:


> I haven't mentioned divorce at all, in fact I was very positive about the OP's attitude towards working things out. For this to be possible he needs to have the right to see what their financial situation is and take control of it for them both. Even then it's going to be tricky because she has even tried taking more loans. He needs to have transparency when it comes to her finances and have control over it to be able to help her through her issues. How does bringing in someone else to hold her money help them? It just means trusting someone else not to allow her to get into more debt - debt that HE will end up liable for! Only one poster said that divorce MAY be the best solution. The second who mentioned divorce was simply pointing out that even after his marriage he was left with 80% of the debts his ex had accumulated. I read this as a warning to take control of the situation now and not think it will just disappear. Again, at no point have I said they should divorce.


It seems we disagree on many threads. There is nothing wrong with that. Healthy discussion is always welcome.

Can you explain to me why my suggestion that he should use a bank manager to look after her affairs and make sure she doesnt over spend will lead him into debt. And why as you put it wont it help them. Is there really no one trustworthy in this world only the husband.

Look if the wife agreed I would also suggest your solution. But the fact is she doesnt. The OP has for some reason not replied to my suggestion, maybe he needs time to think it out. Until he does there is nothing I can add.


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## accept1 (Sep 23, 2013)

MissFroggie said:


> Can you explain to me why he should be kept in the dark as to how serious the debt is and what HIS financial position really is? Also please explain to me why he should be paying for EVERYTHING when she is earning too? Can you explain how this would ever help a marriage and how long it would have to last for before they could start behaving like a couple...or do they just do this forever with him paying for everything and the family getting no benefit from her earnings? If it goes on until the debt is paid they are simply back to square one with her starting up over-spending again. It doesn't solve anything and is totally disrespectful to the husband. He has a right to know what his family's financial situation is.


She DOES pay towards the household expenses. He does not say she is in serious debt at the moment. And even if she was him finding out now about it wont be of much help.

Perhaps you have not understood me. If someone like a bank manager were to be in charge of her finances making sure how much she spends and also making sure she doesnt over spend, it may not be a 'marriage' but at least it can work. As I already wrote unless the OP comes back on this there is nothing I can add.


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## Aboutgivenup (Sep 30, 2013)

MissFroggie said:


> Are you serious? I agree with not getting a divorce but the idea of getting a third party to hold her money is madness - they're married and have shared responsibilities. He absolutely has a right to know how much is there, how big the debts are and what he can do to help THEIR situation. If this was a woman saying her husband was behaving like this I don't think anyone would be saying he could hide his income from her or hide debts that she may later be found liable for. They're a married couple not siblings helping each other out.





accept1 said:


> No you dont divorce.
> 
> It is only your finances in trouble. What you need is a third person who should hold the finances of your wife.
> 
> ...


Third party involvement doesn't sound too bad. I mean if I am going to try to salvage a marriage out of this mess I could consider it. In reality her current income does little for our household due to her spending; at least this way her spending would benefit our family. 

I would probably only go for that once all of the skeletons are out of the closet. I need to see what she has been spending on. If it is just overspending or buying frivolous things - that is easy to deal with. If she's spending a day at the Hampton Inn every week bith a boyfriend that is an entirely different matter. 

For now just wanting some input. And all of it has been appreciated. I really don't have anyone I am comfortable talking to so I am glad to hear any ideas. 

-Thanks


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

accept1 said:


> No you dont divorce.
> 
> It is only your finances in trouble. What you need is a third person who should hold the finances of your wife.
> 
> ...


"ONLY your finances"?? Sorry, but this is nuts! You are acting like what she is doing is NO BIG DEAL, and it IS a big deal! A little slap on the wrist here isnt going to cut it. She has serious issues, disrespecting her spouse and her marriage at the top of that list! Spouses are supposed to be partners, and she is NOT a partner here. Financial irresponsibility is HUGE! Especially if she is out gambling away her earnings, while he holds everything together at home!


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Aboutgivenup said:


> I appreciate everyone's input and advice. Divorce has been discussed repeatedly. My biggest problem with that is that she will get the kids. I don't have a problem with paying child support, but I am pretty sure the money won't be handled wisely and then I won't have the money to make sure my kids are taken care of. In other words, if she doesn't pay the bills, my kids will suffer and I won't have the money left after paying child support to bail her out and buy them the things they need. I can't even imagine the thought of my kids having to do without and not be able to help. Seems I'm screwed if I do and screwed if I don,t. At least at my current situation her hands are out of my wallet and her credit is bad enough that she can't acquire any real debt besides maybe those payday loan places. I make enough that I can support our household by myself, but it really isn't fair.


As long as you're willing to continue enabling her actions, I'm sure she'll continue taking advantage of you. If you're ok with that, then carry on, I guess. But you better make sure you're well protected financially, as you may well be responsible for her debts. I'd make sure you get some legal advice, as well as constant monitoring of your credit information. She will know everything required to open a credit card in your name, most likely. 

And don't make ultimatums/boundaries you're not willing to enforce. It just further reinforces the fact that she can safely ignore you. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## accept1 (Sep 23, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> "ONLY your finances"?? Sorry, but this is nuts! You are acting like what she is doing is NO BIG DEAL, and it IS a big deal! A little slap on the wrist here isnt going to cut it. She has serious issues, disrespecting her spouse and her marriage at the top of that list! Spouses are supposed to be partners, and she is NOT a partner here. Financial irresponsibility is HUGE! Especially if she is out gambling away her earnings, while he holds everything together at home!


It may be a big deal but not lethal. The OP has now mentioned a day at the races with a BF. If he suspects that is the case it puts a whole new 'light' on the case and I take everything back. He should have mentioned it earlier.


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## Aboutgivenup (Sep 30, 2013)

accept1 said:


> It may be a big deal but not lethal. The OP has now mentioned a day at the races with a BF. If he suspects that is the case it puts a whole new 'light' on the case and I take everything back. He should have mentioned it earlier.


No I would be very surprised to find there is a BF. I was just throwing in a "what if".


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

I failed to point out that my first marriage ended because she cheated & not for spending us into the ground, that surprise came out later.
I agree with the posters that believe a marriage is about trust, honesty & responsibility. Involving a 3rd party to keep track of her spending is the same as hiring a private detective to follow her to make sure she isn't cheating? That's not a marriage. If you need a babysitter, you don't have anything. Who would want to live that way??


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

Wow... aren't you scared what you're going to find out when you do get access to her bank/CC statements . You have no idea right now how much debt she has built up.

If she had nothing to hide she would be transparent about her $$$ and would have got rid of the PO box when you asked etc... she clearly has something to hide.

Her refusing you access to her financial info (especially after her previous problems) is not exactly marriage friendly is it? How does she justify it?

My husband hid debt from me a few years ago...it did terrible damage to our relationship and my trust. Only way we have got through is by being 100% transparent and open and honest and about all things financial.

I really feel for you.


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## WalterWhite (Sep 14, 2012)

To the OP: your wife has very bad character. This you cannot fix. Divorce this scumbag before she destroys you!


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