# FIL is dying. I don't know what to do.



## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

I just need a private place to vent and unload for a moment. 

My FIL has recently been diagnosed with lung cancer. Still in early stages of diagnosis but from scans it seems to be Stage IV. We should know more this week. In the last 10 days we've seen a huge decline in his health. The main tumor has doubled in size in the last 3 weeks per scans. 

I just did what I promised myself I wouldn't do and googled. I'm seeing a lot of medical sites saying life expectancy is usually weeks or a couple of months at most at this stage. I know it's just Google. We have not heard that from the doctor yet. Given the downhill progression we've seen just in the last week's it would not surprise me to hear the doctor confirm. 

I don't know what to do. My heart is shattered. For my husband, for my kids who are so close to my FIL and don't even know what's going on yet. They are 6 and 7. They don't know what cancer is. I don't know how to talk to them about this. My husband is shutting me out and I know he's hurting. My MIL, I just want to help her but every time i try to do or say something I feel like I'm making it worse. 

He doesn't have life insurance. He doesn't have health insurance. MIL is not old enough yet to collect social security. We support her and he was still working to pay the bills. (Part time jobs with no benefits.) We will have to come up with money to pay his medical bills, his funeral, to support her after he passes. They are below the poverty line. They have no retirement funds or pensions to draw from. The idea of it makes my head spin. 

Thinking about my kids enduring the pain of losing him just breaks me. 

I feel so helpless.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

kag123 said:


> I just need a private place to vent and unload for a moment.
> 
> My FIL has recently been diagnosed with lung cancer. Still in early stages of diagnosis but from scans it seems to be Stage IV. We should know more this week. In the last 10 days we've seen a huge decline in his health. The main tumor has doubled in size in the last 3 weeks per scans.
> 
> ...


I am so sorry for what you and your family are going through. It is clearly a very bad situation.

You say that you will have to come up with money to pay his hospital bills. You really do not have to because you are not legally liable for paying his bills. Now your MIL would liable, but if she does not have the money to pay, she simply does not pay them. The docs and hospital cannot get money that does not exist. There are federal and state funds to reimburse docs and hospitals for situations like this.

Plus... if your FIL/MIL are so poor, why aren't they on medicaid? Could they qualify for welfare? Your MIL should qualify for some sort of public assistance, especially once your FIL cannot work anymore. Getting them all the help you can will help life a good hunk of the burden you are under.

You say that you want to help but feel like whatever you are doing is not actually helping. Have you asked your FIL and MIL what they would like you to do at this time to help them?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I am so sorry to hear this. 

There is a great deal of help available. They are eligible for a number of government benefits if they are below the poverty line. Chief among them is Obamacare/Medicaid. Get a social worker involved at the hospital to assist them to determine their eligibility and make applications. 

Approval can be fast lined if necessary. Social security disability or food stamps and public assistance which includes a stipend for housing are available. Get hospice involved, they offer services for terminally ill patients in the form of nursing care, hospital bed and equipment. They also provide emotional support to the patient and family. 

Google for info in your state.


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## Pinksapphire (Jun 18, 2016)

Catherine and EleGirl have some good advice in terms of help. I am not in the US so don't know how it works.

I am so sorry for all of you. He is lucky to be blessed with a loving family such as yours.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

I'm sorry for what you're going through. But why are you considering paying his medical bills? You are not legally responsible for any of it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

My head is just swimming right now, I don't know how bills work. I always just assumed they come and you have to pay them. I have not looked into any of the programs that might be available to them. 

His parents have always been too proud to accept help. That includes government help. They feel it is shameful to accept food stamps or any type of assistance. They've always scraped by on cobbling together part time jobs (neither have any skills or education to speak of). His mom ran an in home daycare for decades but she has had to let it go because she is not in good enough shape herself to deal with taking care of young kids anymore. Plus she is FIL full time care taker. 

Re: health insurance. FIL is older and has medicare. Just the part that is free, not any supplemental insurance that costs money. MIL has looked into Obama care but said it still costs money monthly and it is cheaper for her to just pay the tax penalty for being uninsured than buy the insurance. (This is not the decision H and I would make in her shoes, but it's the decision she's made.) 

They do not talk easily about heavy topics like this so trying to ask questions or offering to advocate for them is not really welcome. They are very private people and the more you are seen as pushy the more they shut you out. I love them dearly regardless of this. I've offered every day to MIL to do anything for her - help her figure out bills, help her write a will, go to doctors appts with them to take notes, take care of FIL to give her a break, do her errands for her if she doesn't want to leave his side, research hospice and so on. She refuses all of it. I can see she is overwhelmed. 

FIL is not an easy patient. He is a bit senile and doesn't fully understand the medical world and what the doctors say or try to do. He just thinks they are all evil and out to get his money. He is combative and angry at all appointments. He does not want to treat the cancer (I don't think it's treatable to be honest), which is a respectable decision. But he doesn't understand the difference between curative treatments and comfort measures. There are still things the doctor can do to make him comfortable with the time he has left. For example, they have sent an oxygen tank home. He refuses to use it. He will sit right beside it and suffer immensely unable to breathe and won't use it. It's heart wrenching to watch. He doesn't understand what hospice is and that they are not going to haul him off to the hospital. He has said he does not want hospice. I think he should get it anyway. If nothing else than to give support to MIL. Right now he won't hear any of it. 

We are going on vacation for 2 weeks and leaving in a few days. It's something we've been planning for a year. I am scared to leave. H still insists on going. I think he wants to escape the reality for a bit. I am so scared that FIL will die while we are gone and that he will never forgive himself for being gone when it happened.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Take a deep breath!! Are you religious at all? In life there is death and when we get hit with the news of a passing loved one it is hard but try to find a way thru this that will benefit everyone. If this is your FIL's time rejoice in the life you shared....yes, you will morn your loss, that is needed. let your children it is his time to go. I don't know all in the ins and outs about medical cost and such but I am sure there must be some kind of help out there somewhere. 

My husband's father recently passed from lung cancer as well. He had a small spot on his lungs and without chemo they gave him 3 months to live. He did chemo and radiation, and did well with it. The thing I was concerned about was visitor's during this time when his body was vulnerable to germs. He had planned a cruise with family members and I suggested that they speak to the doc about all the outside exposure. According to family the doc was not concerned. Well, he caught something and he lasted 5 months from the time of his original diagnosis. There was a mix of feelings and these situations tend to bring out the best and worst in people and families so hang in there. You will get thru it.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

I am sorry you are in this situation. There are some things you will have to accept:

1) Your FIL is a bad patient. He chooses to be this way (unless the cancer or meds are affecting his mind.) Therefore focus on comforting your MIL, not your FIL.
2) He has the right to refuse treatment. Again, comfort your MIL and your husband.
3) He has the right to refuse hospice. Many do. Often hospice can be free of charge. Again, comfort your MIL and your husband.
4) Your husband knows his father. Your husband wants the vacation and needs the vacation. Go on the vacation. If you FIL dies, then deal with that later. Your husband knows what he is doing. And it is for a reason. He is not going to let his bad patient father control his life. Your H does not want his father's decisions (poor as they are) to stop him (your husband) from enjoying life with this family.

My dad is poor health, getting senile or something like that and is very mean to my mother. I comfort my mother. 

BTW, make sure you sign NOTHING about any treatment or medical bills. In that way you are not held responsible. My wife is very ill and we get huge bills. Insurance covers everything. It is absolutely sickening what a hospital or doctor will charge you if you do no have insurance. Sometimes the charge is five times or more higher than what insurance covers and the doctor accept as paid in full if you have insurance. Have NO GUILT on the bills.


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## Piper502 (Jun 2, 2016)

kag123 said:


> My head is just swimming right now, I don't know how bills work. I always just assumed they come and you have to pay them. I have not looked into any of the programs that might be available to them.
> 
> His parents have always been too proud to accept help. That includes government help. They feel it is shameful to accept food stamps or any type of assistance. They've always scraped by on cobbling together part time jobs (neither have any skills or education to speak of). His mom ran an in home daycare for decades but she has had to let it go because she is not in good enough shape herself to deal with taking care of young kids anymore. Plus she is FIL full time care taker.
> 
> ...




I am so sorry that you are going through this. November 2014 my father passed away from Metastatic Bladder cancer. He was first diagnosed in 2007 and beat it. When it came back, it was with a vengeance. I wanted to recommend Hosparus to you. They are very helpful not just with your loved one, but with the family too. Towards the end my dad also suffered from Terminal Agitation: severe mood swings, anxiety. It's hard to go through it. My mom and I did the best we could, but knew we needed help. It's something to look into. 

Just remember, you don't always have to say something. You could always do something, like a load of laundry. Cooking a meal for MIL, anything like that. If you need to talk about anything, I'm here. Now my MIL is going through cancer again too so I've been on both sides. 

Seriously. Look into Hosparus. They will ease the overwhelming struggle.

https://www.hosparus.org/


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## Unicus (Jun 2, 2016)

I am so sorry for you, this is awful.

I think you're rightly traumatized by all this, and you're in shock. When folks are like that, they often feel a need for control by thinking about the stuff that you are. You also seem like a very responsible person, too.

Here's what I recommend, though. Recognize the emotional injury here, and take care of yourself. Which might mean NOT thinking about and worrying about all the gruesome details. They have a way of working themselves out, regardless of all the good thoughts and plans.

Talk with your husband not so much about the details here, they're too overwhelming...but rather the emotional implications. Assuming you have a reasonably good relationship, the 2 of you might draw on that.

The other thing, the kids: They might not understand what "Cancer" is, but they surely must be aware that something is going on, if only b/c of your and H's reaction. I think you might need to sit them down and have the "Grand dad' is very very sick" talk with them so they have some perspective and understanding not only of what is unfortunately going to happen, but as importantly, why you and daddy are acting so strangely.

Godspeed, I know this is a hard one...


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Kag, I'm sorry for the emotional anguish you and your family are going through. 

When my brother was dying he made decisions that were not in his, or his kids, best interest, IMO. I felt strongly about what he should do. It was extremely difficult to watch what was happening, knowing something better could come if he just..... But I had to let him "do his death his way." That is the key. When you know you are dying you can only control how you want to do your death and it must be respected even if it's the worst way.

When my sister reached her final stage she had seen the mess our brother left, and she did her death brilliantly. Although we mourned her deeply, she had everything planned out for us.

I think you should shift your focus away from advocating, or trying to get them help because they are both capable of making sound decisions and have the right to make a damn mess of their deaths.

Focus instead on your husband and your children because there you do have sway. If your husband wants distance, support it. Your children are too young to understand cancer and the dying process. "Pop is very sick and won't get better." Is all they have to understand. 

Your husband may very well have regrets after his father passes. Here is what I've learned by watching my brother, my sister and my mother die: There are always regrets and doubts. Always. Some are deep and painful regrets, some are not, but they go hand in hand with death. 

For right now, keep a mental list of the things you and your husband do to help your in laws because obviously that will be an avenue of regret after his death. Remember you do not get to control his death, only he can.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Sorry for your situation. I can read the pain, frustration and dire need to be of some help to ease your, your husband's and children's pain. You love them very much.

Sometimes family can help by talking things out. If your husband has siblings, it might be good if they all get together and talk it all through. Probably best if they do it amongst themselves. 

If there are none, support and understanding helps. Just listening will help. It's tough to do, so I feel for you. Don't forget time away for yourself. Just taking care of yourself will reenergize you to some extent. You will need the support of your family and friends. 

I'm sorry you are in this situation and hurting so much. Take care.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Terrible situation. We will be here for you and them.

Is he ex military? 

Any church that could step in?

Could you launch a Gofundme account to run an appeal?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Kag123,
You say that your FIL/MIL are proud and private people and thus do not want to accept any kind of help from outsiders. But they do apparently accept some help from you and your husband because you said that you help them some financially.

Maybe if you approach this as you (you and your husband) want them to get help so that it’s not as much of a burden on you and your husband. With some of the burden lifted off you two, you can actually do more.. and you want to do more.

Were I you I’d write your MIL and maybe your FIL a letter and explain that you want to help, but you need them to help themselves with things like getting medical care covered, any kind a welfare available, etc.

For example, in my state, you FIL would probably be eligible for Medicaid. You say that he’s low income, so he does not need to spend money on supplemental insurance. Instead he can sign up for Medicaid. Your MIL could do that too.

If you look around, you might be able to find other things that they qualify for. Don’t allow their being proud to end up being a heavier burden on you.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> Kag123,
> 
> Were I you I’d write your MIL and maybe your FIL a letter and explain that you want to help, but you need them to help themselves with things like getting medical care covered, any kind a welfare available, etc.
> 
> ...


Kag, this is good advice. Remind your parents that these programs are not welfare as far as they should be concerned. Like Medicare and Social Security, they paid taxes their whole lives and earned access to these programs. They paid their dues, their taxes, and now it is time to collect.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

Thank you all for being so kind. 

I broke down and started crying last night once the kids were in bed, and then I felt stupid for it, like I don't want to be a burden on my husband. I knew he'd want to comfort me, when he should be the one who gets comforted. I felt selfish. So I quickly stopped. 

My H hasn't talked to me about any of it. I've been talking to his mom directly for details and being her ear to listen when she wants to talk. H hasn't said a thing. I kind of don't want to talk to the kids without him being present and having a say in the conversation. He actually doesn't want to talk to them about it at all and would rather just wait until FIL is imminently going to die. I guess I've had some scary experiences with cancer and have come face to face with death before, and remember how hard it was for me then to see my relative in such a scary state. I think the kids should be told. They are smarter than they get credit for. But without his agreement or involvement it feels like an underhanded thing to do.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Sorry you are going thru this...

Reading a post like this makes me glad I live in Canada...here everyone gets full health care...you get cancer up here and you get full treatment and don't have to spend anything.

In regards to your inlaws...it is not fair to you and your family to have to go into debt for them. You have children to look after. I find it funny when people will say well I am too proud to take money from the governmetn, etc. but think nothing of taking it from their relatives.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

highwood said:


> Sorry you are going thru this...
> 
> Reading a post like this makes me glad I live in Canada...here everyone gets full health care...you get cancer up here and you get full treatment and don't have to spend anything.
> 
> In regards to your inlaws...it is not fair to you and your family to have to go into debt for them. You have children to look after. I find it funny when people will say well I am too proud to take money from the governmetn, etc. but think nothing of taking it from their relatives.


To be fair they don't really willingly take the money from us, either. 

FIL doesn't even know about it. I've been slipping MIL money on a weekly basis under his nose since our kids were born. 

She ran an in home daycare and when our kids were not in school yet, they were part of her daycare. She did not want to accept payment from us even though we took up two full time spots in her daycare that could have gone to other (paying) customers. I didn't like that at all, so over a period of 18 months I forced her to take the money from us. (The regular paying rate for two kids in her daycare.) Every week it was a fight. The first two years she saved all of the money and then went absolutely crazy buying gifts for the kids on Christmas and birthdays with it. It was kind of her way of saying - if you won't take the cash back, I'll give it back to you one way or the other. 

Then she slowly lost customers (kids got older and didn't need daycare anymore) and the money we paid her was needed more. Eventually it became clear she was just getting too old for taking care of babies and young kids all the time, and then FIL started going senile and needed her to watch him 24/7. She stopped protesting so hard and we kept the money going. 

She still watches our kids quite a bit, including during the summers when school is out. We just never stopped paying her the daycare payment. Now I do not plan to stop. She cannot work while FIL is sick and she could not handle a job on her feet all day such as retail. She hasn't worked in a business ever. Went right out of high school to running the daycare, so she will likely be hard to employ if she did try to find a job. 

She's still not happy that we give her the money but we slip it in her purse each week like always and we both just pretend it didn't happen, to save their pride.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Something popped into my head. Can you go with her financial information to the local welfare office and ask them what amount of help she qualifies to receive? Can you talk to the hospital about getting help with her payments for his care? Maybe when she sees how much it will cost and what will be forgiven and/or paid for her, she will change her mind? 

I'm not sure this is a good idea. I just wanted to throw it out there for consideration. 

I know for certain that many, if not all hospitals will cover costs. So will big pharmaceutical companies, if the meds are too expensive. Those apps may be done online, if I'm not mistaken. A few phone calls will get you pointed in the right direction. 

There are many elderly with little retirement income. It's normal to feel ashamed when your parents have to get help from their children. Aren't they supposed to help their kids? If their parents came from the depression era, it will be tough for them to accept anything, since their parents made it on their own with seemingly greater roadblocks. It's not the same era. Laws have changed. The economy has changed. Attitudes about the elderly have changed. Attitudes about what success looks like have changed. It is confusing and disheartening for them. 

The cost of living has risen so rapidly, what someone planned for years ago is no longer able to pay for reality today. I hope you can talk her into getting help, or find a way to circumvent her pride. She needs and deserves the help. It's how things are done today. The government is in charge, not individuals. We are more socialist today than ever, and we are forced to be by law. It isn't her fault.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

2ntnuf said:


> Something popped into my head. Can you go with her financial information to the local welfare office and ask them what amount of help she qualifies to receive? Can you talk to the hospital about getting help with her payments for his care? Maybe when she sees how much it will cost and what will be forgiven and/or paid for her, she will change her mind? I'm not sure this is a good idea. I just wanted to throw it out there for consideration.
> 
> I'm not sure this is a good idea. I just wanted to throw it out there for consideration.


A lot of this research can be done online. You can find your state’s welfare website. It should have the rules posted, what they consider poverty level, etc. The forms should also be provided online and you print them off. IN some cases, they can be filled out online.

He should be eligible for Medicaid to supplement his Medicare. Those applications should be on line as well. 

Many states have programs to help the elderly find out what’s available to them and navigate the system. Here, the senior state and city senior program also has people who help care for the elderly. There are even people like plumbers, repair men, etc to do volunteer work through the state for the low income elderly. like they will unclog the toilet, replace/fix leaking faucets, etc… for free.

And I agree that a trip to the welfare office, after you have done all the research you can online might be a good idea.

If you would share what state and city you live in, maybe we could help you find resources.



2ntnuf said:


> I know for certain that many, if not all hospitals will cover costs. So will big pharmaceutical companies, if the meds are too expensive. Those apps may be done online, if I'm not mistaken. A few phone calls will get you pointed in the right direction.


This is good too. But he might be able to get on Medicaid. But yes, you can negotiate with hospitals and they will greatly reduce or forgive the bill. There will most likely be a lot of bills from individual doctors. I have about 15 bills from doctors who say that they did something for me when I was in the hospital. (read xrays, scans, etc, gave their 2 cents I guess). So the hospital is not the only one to worry about. Medicaid would help with those tool.



2ntnuf said:


> There are many elderly with little retirement income. It's normal to feel ashamed when your parents have to get help from their children. Aren't they supposed to help their kids? If their parents came from the depression era, it will be tough for them to accept anything, since their parents made it on their own with seemingly greater roadblocks. It's not the same era. Laws have changed. The economy has changed. Attitudes about the elderly have changed. Attitudes about what success looks like have changed. It is confusing and disheartening for them.


I agree with this. The best way to help, I think, is to keep telling them that this is why they and you pay taxes. For years all of you have paid into the system so that when help is needed, there is a strong support system. It’s their system as much as anyone else’s.


2ntnuf said:


> The cost of living has risen so rapidly, what someone planned for years ago is no longer able to pay for reality today. I hope you can talk her into getting help, or find a way to circumvent her pride. She needs and deserves the help. It's how things are done today. The government is in charge, not individuals. We are more socialist today than ever, and we are forced to be by law. It isn't her fault.


Yep!!


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I think the elderly have a right to expect support in their time of need. The cost of living has increased more rapidly than at any time in our history and none of us were prepared for it. 

The elderly are especially impacted because it was impossible for them to predict and they had no time to change course to meet the challenge.

That's where the community comes in. These old folks contribute in ways they do not realize. They have children and grandchildren who work, pay taxes and form the community that sustains us. 

Perhaps your MIL can look at the situation in that way. They are not accepting charity. They belong to the collective Us and we are responsible for them.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

I think the money aspect of this is going to have to take a back seat for the time being. I'm trying to be an emotional support for MIL and not stress her out too much while she processes all of this new information. FIL condition is deteriorating daily and faster than anyone thought and I think it's really a lot for her to take in. It's a lot for all of us to absorb. 

I talked to her for a long time today. He has his first appointment with the cancer center on Thursday. We will already be gone on vacation. I asked her a thousand times if we could postpone our trip to go with her. She insisted we don't. We do not expect this to be treatable. She is expecting to hear a final verdict on how much time he has left. I don't know if they will actually tell her that. Do doctors do that? She is in shambles waiting for this appointment. Like waiting for the other shoe to drop. I so wish she would let me go with her. 

She is walking on eggshells around FIL. He is very angry and easily agitated right now. She is so afraid that he will die at any moment that she does not want to spend a single moment fighting with him, afraid anything she says to him might be her last words to him. It's so sad. I understand how she feels. So she won't advocate for him at the doctors at all if he doesn't want the help. The thing is that he doesn't understand what he's turning away - comfort measures that he's refusing. He's refusing hospice and pain medication. I hope he changes his mind, or that eventually when he is unable to fight it we can get them on board. He's refusing to make a will or to discuss a living will and what his wishes might be if he cannot answer for himself. He gets angry if you bring it up. I think he plans to just drop dead but I don't know how much control a person has to will that to happen. 

My poor H has been in a horrible deadline at work. Pulling 100 hr weeks. I have not wanted to talk to him about anything to do with his dad unless he asks me because he's got enough on his plate right now. I haven't been seeing him much over the last week. He's been crushing it to try to get on vacation where he can unplug a bit. I'm worried that he's going to miss this time with his dad and regret it later, but this could also be an avoidance tactic. I've just been letting him make his own decisions and trying to be here if he needs me. 

Despite his protests, I went ahead and talked to the kids for the first time today. They are at MILs house still for the next few days before we leave while H and I work, and home health is coming over tomorrow to evaluate him at the house ahead of his cancer center appt. The cancer center sent them out. I assume this is so they can get him some comfort at home and perhaps offer him hospice. They are going to do some tests on him and will be talking to MIL about medical things, and my kids overhear everything and know enough to know when things are bad. I decided I would rather them hear from me what is happening and what they might see than find out by overhearing strangers in the house talking. It was a hard conversation and they asked me a lot of tough questions that I tried to answer truthfully. We are not religious, not really, so we don't talk about heaven and those types of things. I tried to be truthful and fair about what I said, not make false promises to them about him getting better. I hope I did the right thing. 

One of the most surprising questions they asked me was, what can they do to help MIL and FIL feel better. I thought that was so amazing. They are good kids. So we tried to brainstorm some age appropriate things they can do to help. 

I expect H will not be thrilled I had the talk without him. I didnt know what to do. My kids are smart and said themselves that FIL seems very sick and why isn't he getting better. I suppose H and I might have a fight about it later.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Yep. And believe it, husband is stewing inside. It's building up. He's got a lot on his mental plate. 

I'm not minimizing your ordeals, or the children's. Just commenting on the last part. I see it coming. 

FIL is stubborn. He doesn't want to believe it. He can't believe it. He will need some counseling and so will MIL and maybe you, your husband and children. 

Got nothing much other than that. I really wish I did. Best I can do is recommend you read some sites I found. I know it's likely FIL will be on some antidepressants, but it isn't certain. He will likely need pain meds and care beyond what MIL and your family can handle. He isn't able to think at the moment. Can't really fault anyone for any of that. I'm so sorry. 

Here are some links. I do hope they are of help to you. It's all I know to do. My mum was in a home when she contracted cancer and passed. They did what they could. I didn't have to do much, nor could I have done much. So sad.

Terminal illness: Supporting a terminally ill loved one - Mayo Clinic

Coping ? For Family and Friends - National Cancer Institute

Tips for Family and Friends of Cancer Patients

Terminal Illness ? Preparing for Death ? Dealing with Illness

End-of-Life Care - National Cancer Institute

When a Loved One is Terminally Ill: Talking About Death and Making End?of?life Decisions

I know it's a lot of reading, but maybe it will help you to feel better knowing what is happening and what you can and cannot do? I'm sorry I can't provide more.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> Yep. And believe it, husband is stewing inside. It's building up. He's got a lot on his mental plate.
> 
> I'm not minimizing your ordeals, or the children's. Just commenting on the last part. I see it coming.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the links. 

Re: H, I see it coming too. What can I do though. This is how he has always been. When he's dealing with anything heavy he pushes me away. I'm just letting him lead the way and will be here when he breaks. If he breaks. I wish it didn't have to be this way, but I have never figured out a way to better support him in all of the years we've been together. This is no different.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

MIL asked me today to attend the first appointment with the cancer center to take notes and ask the questions she will write down for me. I guess she gave some thought to what I said to her before and I am thankful she is asking for help. We are postponing our vacation to go to the appt. I am hopeful I can be supportive enough for MIL and my H. She warned me she will probably fall apart and cry during the appt. I feel so bad for her.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

FIL has only days left now, and my husband is taking vigil by his bedside. Today I had to tell my kids that pop pop is dying (very soon) and it was such a difficult conversation. Probably one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. I don't think I did a very good job. It is so hard to watch your children and your husband hurt.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Hugs. I'm so sorry to hear this. It's okay to no know what to say. It's okay to let your kids see your sadness.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

@kag123

You are a very kind and generous person.

Your family is lucky to have you.


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## Seasong (Mar 1, 2012)

Kag123,

I am so sorry you and your family are going through this right now. I had to tell my children that their father died a little over five years ago. They were older than your kids but still, death is so hard because you yourself don't want it to be true. But they will be glad they heard it from you.
Hospice has classes in some areas for children on helping them with grieving. My ex husband was unwell but his death was unexpected. Don't be afraid to keep pop pop's memory alive. It will help them.

Do you know if your fil was diagnosed with mesothelioma by any chance? It's common in those who worked around asbestos (construction, etc). It's rare but if that's the type of lung cancer he has, he would qualify for monetary compensation (mil would). I hate to bring this up at such a sensitive time but I hope they tested him if he did any sort of work that could have exposed him.

My prayers and thoughts to your family. My heart goes out to you.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

I have never understood a spouse who are NOT as supportive as you are. Good on you.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@kag123 are there any cancer support charities where you llive?

Local church groups, pethaps?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I'm sure you did a good job. It isn't an easy one. I'm sorry you all have to go through this.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Kag, I'm so sorry. I have been exactly where you are except it was my father.....stage 4 lung cancer with 2-6 months.

My dad lasted 3 years and when he finally went it came on quickly. I don't know if any of you are close enough to your fil for him to talk to but I was very close to my father and when the time came I told him to go.....he passed the same night.

Sometimes they need that. 

It's a stressful time and it's probably going to get worse for a while, but one thing I learned about cancer is that the actual passing is a mixed bag. Sure I was sad to see him go.....it's been 4 years and I still can't talk about him with dry eyes, but I was glad to see the suffering end. Cancer is a roller coaster ride for the whole family.

Cancer sucks.....there's nothing else to say about it. Hang in there and make sure everyone takes care of themselves......and don't worry about small things.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Kag: From a purely theological and spiritual standpoint, be receptive to addressing his spiritual needs and questions if he so requests. If he does not, then do not bring it up on your own!

In any event, praise him continuously for being the great father and person that he has always been! Comfort him and talk with or to him at length, because that, in and of itself, will make him feel wanted and secure!

Meanwhile, he as well as your entire family remains firmly entrenched in my prayers!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

OP my heart breaks for you and your family. They are so blessed to have you, you have been wonderful to them all.

You did the right thing telling the children - children aren't silly, they know when something's up. He is their pop, they have the right to know.

I too have been where you are, except it was my dad who passed away. The next few days are going to be tough, very tough, but you will get through it as a family and come through stronger for it.

My heart is with you all xx


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

Thank you all so much for the kind support. It really means a lot. I can't even tell you. I'm playing the "rock" right now for everyone. Doesn't mean I am cold and unemotional...anything but. But it's hard. 

We met with hospice today and talked about pulling everything that is not necessary from him. He was in agony with a lot of the monitors and testing and feeding tubes, the constant suctioning. We all just said enough...and today was the day that all of those things went away. We don't know whether he's got a day left or days plural. For some reason as soon as all of the crap was taken away, he has become more lucid than hes been in weeks. It's been a blessing. I don't know how long it will last. He used that time to express his sadness at knowing his end was near. He said how unfair it is that he does not want to go now, and there's still so much he wanted to do and see and wanted to see his grandchildren grow up. To hear someone saying those things is just beyond sadness. I tried to offer words of comfort as best as I can. I have no idea what I am doing. 

I am the unofficial family representative now that gathers the families wishes and dictates them when no one else can. I have the hospice contact. 

I volunteered to take over funeral and burial arrangements. I did not realize that things might escalate so quickly. I hadn't had the chance to do anything yet. In a panic today I called the closest funeral home that I knew and just was anxiety ridden over the phone about what I needed to do. The hospice contact told me I needed to have a funeral home lined up to take his body and I panicked thinking that meant we had to have everything done. The funeral director was an angel with me and she told me just what I needed to hear - don't spend time right now worrying about what's going to happen after, just be present with him and when he does pass, call us and we will take it from there. All plans can be made after he passes. I did not know that. That was a huge weight off my shoulders.

FIL is Catholic and today had two visits from two priests, one of which read him his last rights. I am not Catholic and have never witnessed such a thing before. What an overwhelmingly emotional moment. I will be frank that I am not a religious person but I had some time to speak to FIL today and let him tell me his history with what his religion means to him. He wanted to talk and I just wanted to make sure he's heard, no matter what he says. I've never sat and listened to someone talk about why they believe what they believe and it was so moving to hear that from him. 

We've got so many more tears to go. So many. I have been crying in front of my kids and letting them cry too. As soon as we saw that FIL was lucid for the first time in weeks, I grabbed my kids and took them to the hospital. I wasn't sure whether it was a good idea or bad idea, but it just felt like it needed to happen. I didn't know if his lucid state would last 10 minutes or until he's gone but I think we needed to grab that chance while we could. So we took them and it was super emotional. They didn't understand it as goodbye, but I think it comforted my kids that they could see him and see he was awake and "ok". He didn't look too scary. He responded to them pretty normally. We only visited for about 15 mins but man my husband was a mess, which made me a mess. We did not have to even look at each other in that room to know exactly what the other was thinking. If that is not a marriage then I dont know what is...to feel that other persons emotions in your heart as a knife without a word being spoken. We have to assume that this was their last visit with him at this point. Who knows really but just the gravity of knowing how much they love him and knowing it might be the last goodbye. Just so hard. We had someone else to take them home and then my husband and I went into the waiting room and just absolutely lost it sobbing. We both cannot believe how much more painful it is to experience that loss through your children. Why does it hurt so much. Why do they have to hurt. We are watching them lose some of their innocence in a way that we wish we could shield them from. I just want to absorb their pain and take it from them instead of watch them go through this. 

I left tonight to be with my kids at home. I hugged my FIL when I left and told him "I'll see you tomorrow" and the look he gave me burned right through my soul. We both know that there's no guarantee for tomorrow. I don't think I will ever forget those eyes locking with mine.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

I just went back and read my previous posts here from June. About my husband being walled off and pushing me out. Now that things are critical he is no longer doing that. I've been so proud of him for being so genuine and letting himself cry in front of others. I know he isn't that type of guy. His pain is my pain. 

I take medications to control my anxiety and depression and thought that they made me numb. It doesn't. I care so deeply about him and my in laws that I can feel everyone's pain coursing through me, but especially my husbands. To watch him hurting is as bad as having his wound myself.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

God bless you. What a difficult time. You are doing fine. Don't worry about whether you are "doing it right" or not. You are.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Are ya'll square on your MIL possible qualifying for his social security benefits as a surviving spouse?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Kag, death is a part of life and there's nothing wrong with your kids facing that. We in the western world do a poor job of accepting death as a part of life, which makes no sense given how religious so many claim to be. 

My kids knew about everything where their grandfather's illness and passing was concerned and I think they're better off for it. They were 8 and 11 when he passed and it had started 3 years before that. 

I've also found it helpful to be grateful for what I've had. My father was only 67, but he got more than many, and our time together was quality.

Tomorrow isn't guaranteed for any of us, but moving on is. Try to make some peace with this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

FIL passed two days ago after a sleepless 72 hour vigil at his bedside. I was lucky to have someone help with our kids so I could be there for the family. I held his hand as he passed and I was the last one to speak to him before he slipped into unconsciousness. 

I have taken over the funeral arrangements and all of the details for his mom so she did not have to do it. This is my first time at the helm of a funeral and it's like planning a wedding but in two days and for a horrible reason. 

I am exhausted. Physically and emotionally. Trying to stay strong for my H though. 

Funeral is on Monday.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

kag123 said:


> FIL passed two days ago after a sleepless 72 hour vigil at his bedside. I was lucky to have someone help with our kids so I could be there for the family. I held his hand as he passed and I was the last one to speak to him before he slipped into unconsciousness.
> 
> I have taken over the funeral arrangements and all of the details for his mom so she did not have to do it. This is my first time at the helm of a funeral and it's like planning a wedding but in two days and for a horrible reason.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry for your loss. 
I hope that you will plan for some time to recuperate after the funeral. If you don't meet your own needs, you won't be able to function at an optimal level.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)




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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I'm so sorry and am so touched by your devotion to him and your family. Take care.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I'm sorry. I know exactly how it feels. 

It gets better.....try to focus on his life and what he brought to the family.

One of the nicest things anyone said to me after my dad passed was that while he didn't know him personally he left behind a great daughter, so the world was better off for having had him in it. 

I'm sure that's true of your fil.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Seasong (Mar 1, 2012)

I am so sorry for your loss. I am always touched deeply when family can mesh this close. I am sure he thought of you as more of a daughter, as well as your mil. I hope things go smoothly for the funeral and after. Hold your family tight.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

Thanks all. FIL had no life insurance so my H and I are paying for everything. It is shocking how much a death costs. I don't know what else we can do. No one else has money to pay for this. We didn't either but we can handle a loan payment where others can't. 

My H has been in an absolutely horrible mood...lashing out at me here and there. I'm not sure if it's about the money or just his coping mechanism in general. I'd rather see him be sad than angry. The anger is really hard for me to deal with right now. I'm just trying to be patient with him. Patience is running thin though. 

MIL wants an open casket and I cannot stop envisioning my kids when they see him in that casket for the first time. I am giving a speech on behalf of MIL because she doesn't think she can do it. I hope I can get through it without being a total mess. This is so much harder having little kids.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

kag123 said:


> FIL passed two days ago after a sleepless 72 hour vigil at his bedside. I was lucky to have someone help with our kids so I could be there for the family. I held his hand as he passed and I was the last one to speak to him before he slipped into unconsciousness.
> 
> I have taken over the funeral arrangements and all of the details for his mom so she did not have to do it. This is my first time at the helm of a funeral and it's like planning a wedding but in two days and for a horrible reason.
> 
> ...


What an honor that you were able to be there for him. And be there for the rest of the family during this time. You are beautiful, courageous and generous of heart. I'm so very sorry for your loss.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

The funeral was yesterday. What a long and tough day. 

Now that it's over I think reality is really hitting me that he is gone. There's nothing left to busy myself with. I spent the whole time he was dying making sure everyone else was taken care of and now I'm fatigued and depressed. 

My H is showing anger and irritation instead of the sadness I expected. I was expecting tears and depression. Instead he's yelling at us and lashing out and pushing me away. I am staying silent...I know now is not the time to talk about any of his behavior. But I am deeply hurt. I want to grieve with him and instead we are pitted against each other. He is being bad tempered with our kids who are also in a deep state of sadness and I have to play goalkeeper between them so they don't get hurt like I am. I keep my tears to myself now and save them for my commutes to and from work. I sure hope this phase of anger ends soon. We are so out if sync right now.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I'm so sorry. That sounds terrible. Grief does not give your husband an excuse for hurting his family. He is adding to the grief of his children. It's okay to tell him to knock it off.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

It sounds like your husband could use a boxing bag as an outlet for his anger.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Do you know what he's angry about? Have you suggested he seek help from a therapist to get this under control as it's hurting you and the children?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

He may need a therapist. Anger is what he chooses to show. The reason for it is underneath. Typically, it can be fear or pain. It can be many things. He needs to talk to a professional. 

I'm sorry you are going through this.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

My H's anger is now gone. It dissipated just as suddenly as it began. Once he was in a normal state of mind again I did ask him what was up, was he ok? He seemed very sheepish about it and regretful for the anger spilling over to us at home. I think it was his way of grieving- just hit me way out of left field. I wasn't expecting that at all. 

He's actually been very kind and sweet since then. 

Me? I'm a hot mess. Functional from an outsiders point of view. But I have constant visions and replays that are invading my thoughts all of the time. Any quiet moment, driving to work, in the shower, that moment before you fall asleep...I just relive that night holding his hand and watching him take his last breath...over and over again. I hear the hospital sounds and the death rattle breathing all the time. Is this was PTSD feels like? 

I remember being there when my grandmother died when I was in my early 20's and being haunted by that for awhile too. I don't remember it being this severe.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

CynthiaDe said:


> I'm so sorry. That sounds terrible. Grief does not give your husband an excuse for hurting his family. *He is adding to the grief of his children*. It's okay to tell him to knock it off.


And his wife, who's been the entire family and extended family's rock throughout this whole process.

OP - can you take a couple of days off work? Perhaps a Friday and Monday to give you several days to have some down time? Ask your husband to take the kids out for a day so that you can catch up on some much needed rest?

I'm worried that if you don't, you're going to fall in a heap from complete and utter exhaustion.

Don't ask yourself can you afford to...ask yourself can you afford NOT to? xx


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

I am so sorry. My most heartfelt condolences to you. I also second the idea of taking a few days off work. Maybe even a week.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I'm glad your husband has turned a corner. 

It does sound like you've got some PTSD from this. Can you seek counseling? It might help to have EMDR. What is EMDR Therapy? - EMDR International Association


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

Things have been slowly getting back to a normal routine in our house. I am dreading the holidays but I am trying not to think about it. 

We went on a day trip last weekend and the cemetery where FIL is buried happened to be on the way there. (He's buried about 1 hr away from us.) We had not been back to the cemetery since his funeral, and I wanted to go so I drove us there. In hindsight maybe it was stupid. The kids were with us and didn't seem to mind but H clearly wanted to spend no more than a minute there and was itching to leave as soon as possible. So we did, and then he was a bit grouchy for the rest of that day. I guess my fault for not thinking through the visit and whether it was a good idea before I just stopped there. 

Our anniversary was a couple of days ago. On a work day. We normally don't see each other in the mornings. I leave for work when everyone in the house is still asleep. At some point in the late morning he will usually text me to say hi, once the kids are off to school and hes gotten himself settled at work. For some reason I was waiting around for him to acknowledge our anniversary that morning. Waiting for that text. I could have made the first move, but for some reason I didn't. I was left waiting for his message. He finally messaged me in the afternoon. By that time I was having a full woe is me moment. Being totally ridiculous and upset that he "didn't care" about our anniversary at all. I didn't address those feelings while either of us were at work. Just texted happy anniversary in response to his and no other words were spoken after that until we were both home. 

When he got home I was hoping he would ask me to do something, go to dinner or order takeout maybe. We had the kids so nothing elaborate could be done. He didn't. The thoughts running through my mind all day were about his parents. Comparing their 40+ years happily married, and how FIL would have treated MIL on their anniversary. My overwhelming thought was, MIL would do anything to get one more anniversary with her deceased husband. Here I am with a husband that doesn't care at all. I would trade my place right now with FIL to bring him back if I could. 

Like I said...craziness on my part. I don't know where those thoughts came from. I decided to try to be direct with H about my feelings and how I was disappointed that we hadn't made a bigger deal about the day. He explained he was busy at work all day and then he started crying because I was upset and he felt like he had failed me. Seeing his tears broke my heart. I instantly realized how stupid and self centered I was being. We had cards for each other and exchanged them (we don't do anniversary gifts) and later that evening I asked him if we could both take the day off of work the following day for some couple time. He agreed and we spent our day off (for the time kids were in school) walking a trail at a local park and going out to lunch. Unfortunately, whatever we had at lunch did not agree with me, and as soon as I got home I was sick for the rest of the night. So that stunk. Story of my life! The beginning of the day was good though. But the sickness made it so our evening plans of bedroom time did not happen and I know he was disappointed about that. 

I still feel dumb when I think about some of the thoughts that roll through my head. I feel badly for ruining our anniversary. :/


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

kag123 said:


> I still feel dumb when I think about some of the thoughts that roll through my head. I feel badly for ruining our anniversary. :/


I'm assuming you apologized to your husband and he forgave you. If this is true, then move on and stop beating yourself up. You recongized what you did and are making an effort to not be like that. It's growth. Keep growing.


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