# Wife's EA with Stepbrother...Expose to Family vs. Don't Ask Family for Help per 180



## EverEvolving (May 1, 2013)

I don't really suppose that my story is outrageously unique, and I'm working on putting my "full story" out there, but I have a specific question which I don't necessarily know requires the whole screenplay yet be completed.

My wife has been involved with an on-again/off-again EA with her stepbrother over (at the very least) the past 6 years, though I suspect it is considerably longer based on what information surfaced after D-Day #1. In fact, for longer than I even know her. She came with this baggage, and I hadn't any indication prior.

We're both in early 40s (married 5 years), and since I have hard evidence, I have been considering exposing the relationship to the parents, as I've been sitting on this for the aforementioned length of time and a recent discovery resulted in the reopening of wounds I thought were closed/closing. I am certain that it would mortify my MIL and "StepFIL", but I know it would likely piss all over whatever fire it is my wife and her stepbrother think keeps their involvement hot, and I know it would cause a likely incurable resentment against me on the part of my wife (not that I would accept any guilt for having done it).

I've read that exposure of the EA is important, but what I've read seems to center around OMWs or OWHs. This is a different dynamic, and I also understand that the tenets of the "180" dictate that you don't ask the family members for help. Unfortunately, exposing the EA to the parents is tantamount to asking them for help in quashing it.

I'm confused and would appreciate whatever thoughts people would care to share on this situation.

Thanks in advance. Hopefully, this is at least moderately coherent.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

*Wife's EA with Stepbrother...Expose to Family vs. Don't Ask Family for Help per*

Hi. I think the 180 is about the way you interact with your spouse.

Exposure is about stopping the affair.

You need to do both.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

So you're scared to expose because it would cause resentment from someone who doesn't respect you enough to stop her EA with her step brother?

This is your marriage, either she respects it and you or she goes. You expose, and you expose now. What they are doing is wrong and this is life, in life actions have consequences and sooner or later you to face the ramifications of what you have done in the cold light of day.

You didn't start the affair. They did. You have nothing to be afraid of.


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## ShootMePlz! (Oct 5, 2008)

How is your relationship now? What is your wife saying? and what was the interaction with the step-brother been during marriage and after D-Day?

P.S........that's a long time for a man to be involved with it just being a EA and not PA!!!


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

A good friend of mine at where I work had a girlfriend. They got serious. They moved in together. They ended up pregnant. Had a beautiful Daughter. They planed a wedding. Around the time their Daughter was 3, his fiance started spending more and more time with her stepbrother.

At first my friend didn't think much of it, as he knew they were close. Then it started to get weird. She would do things and go places with the stepbrother while he was at work. Many times taking the Daughter with them.

He still thought it was strange, but they were taking the Daughter along so he he wasn't worried.

Then he found out that they would drop the Daughter off at the Grandmother's(Mothers Mother) sometimes and spend the day together, alone...

He started checking her phone when she slept and her email when she was not around and BINGO!

He never found out how long it had gone on and she wouldn't give him any answers. He tried to R for about 6 months, but she refused the no contact, so he told her it was over.

I hadn't realized it until my friends problems, but it seems that many opposite sex step siblings build a strong, albeit weird, bond with each other. My friend researched it and found some information and studies concerning this.

You may have a VERY hard time enforcing a no, or at least, minimal contact order between your wife and the OM/SB. So going nuclear and telling her parents may be your best chance at ending their EA.

And keep in mind. It may only be an EA right now, but that doesn't mean that they've never had any physical contact over what the "normal" Brother/Sister contact would be. They've known each other a long time and remember, they're only related by their parents being married.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You don't want to expose because it will create an awkward family situation.

But you've tried the soft approach and it has failed.

If you want your marriage you need to expose and deal head on with the truth.

The 180 is what you need here, that's about helping you detach from a remorseless cheating spouse and moving on.


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## EverEvolving (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Re: Wife's EA with Stepbrother...Expose to Family vs. Don't Ask Family for Help p*



ShootMePlz! said:


> How is your relationship now? What is your wife saying? and what was the interaction with the step-brother been during marriage and after D-Day?
> 
> P.S........that's a long time for a man to be involved with it just being a EA and not PA!!!


I know that it is next to impossible to believe, but I know for certain that there has been no physical contact between them. He lives in Florida, and we live in Ohio. The relationship between him and his father (my stepFIL) is fairly strained, so in those six years, he has been physically present once, perhaps twice, and only for a matter of days. For any times he was here, my wife and I were together pretty much all the time. Believe it or not, that's not on my suspicions list. All contact between them has been via text, clandestine calls, and, most recently, Facebook. It was the fact that he popped up under "People You May Know" that caused my most recent trigger. Sure enough, he's friends with not just others in our family, but (ding ding ding) my wife. After our most recent "discussion," and, of course, after she got angry at me for "snooping" (F.U.), she eventually told me that he has been struggling with the self-discovery that he is gay, and that he hasn't told a soul but her, and that she promised him she'd tell no one, and that she has now "violated her integrity" (you did that a long time ago, sister). Me, I'm not buying the gay story. Maybe I'd be inclined to if she had EVIDENCE that he was gay that dated prior what turns out to be my third discovery in 6 years. But you know what? All of it is deleted, gone, up in smoke.


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## EverEvolving (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Re: Wife's EA with Stepbrother...Expose to Family vs. Don't Ask Family for Help p*



LanieB said:


> If you want this affair to end, you have to blow it up and expose - and that does mean exposing to family. Is the step-brother married? Every betrayed spouse (BS) considering exposing their wayward spouse (WS) wrestles with the same argument - they worry about how angry the WS is going to be. But obviously, NOT exposing hasn't worked so far, has it?
> 
> Tell the family. And don't feel bad about it. An affair is an affair, and it's wrong.


He is not married, so there is no other BS in the picture specifically connected to him. Whatever relationships he has had with women have been pretty crappy at best as I understand. Sometimes, a part of me wants to buy her a one-way ticket to Florida so she and he could explore their tensions and he could eventually wind up physically abusive like it seems he has in the past. Let's just say his picture is on some county Sheriff's website down in FL post-arrest. Seems the girl did some damage, too. You go, girl.


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## EverEvolving (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Re: Wife's EA with Stepbrother...Expose to Family vs. Don't Ask Family for Help p*



BobSimmons said:


> So you're scared to expose because it would cause resentment from someone who doesn't respect you enough to stop her EA with her step brother?
> 
> This is your marriage, either she respects it and you or she goes. You expose, and you expose now. What they are doing is wrong and this is life, in life actions have consequences and sooner or later you to face the ramifications of what you have done in the cold light of day.
> 
> You didn't start the affair. They did. You have nothing to be afraid of.


My reticence to "turn the keys" stems from the fact that I have no hard evidence of the most recent exchanges. If you read one of my above responses, there's the stated issue that she is acting as a confidant while he sorts through his "holy crap, I'm gay" issue. Like I said there, I am not really buying it, but I have no clear evidence that she's lying. It's all circumstantial. I guess the pivotal thing for me is "what if she's not actually lying, but her deletion of messages IS so that no one discovers what is a legitimately sensitive issue? What if this isn't actively A material and she's really coming correct?" The possibility exists, but I'm sure I'll get pounced on for that. Perhaps I deserve it, so...


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## EverEvolving (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Re: Wife's EA with Stepbrother...Expose to Family vs. Don't Ask Family for Help p*



GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> A good friend of mine at where I work had a girlfriend. They got serious. They moved in together. They ended up pregnant. Had a beautiful Daughter. They planed a wedding. Around the time their Daughter was 3, his fiance started spending more and more time with her stepbrother.
> 
> At first my friend didn't think much of it, as he knew they were close. Then it started to get weird. She would do things and go places with the stepbrother while he was at work. Many times taking the Daughter with them.
> 
> ...


I think this is one of the kinds of responses I was really hoping to see. This would be so very much easier if it were some complete stranger, but the fact that he's family by marriage brings a different dimension to this. I'd be interested to read some of this research. Not that it would make things better for me, but I'm very heavily left-brained.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

In the txts and messages that you have read, what do they talk about?


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## EverEvolving (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Re: Wife's EA with Stepbrother...Expose to Family vs. Don't Ask Family for Help p*



LanieB said:


> Every betrayed spouse (BS) considering exposing their wayward spouse (WS) wrestles with the same argument - they worry about how angry the WS is going to be. But obviously, NOT exposing hasn't worked so far, has it?


Sadly, an excellent point. My best thinking got me here.


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## EverEvolving (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Re: Wife's EA with Stepbrother...Expose to Family vs. Don't Ask Family for Help p*



EleGirl said:


> In the txts and messages that you have read, what do they talk about?


Well, I'm working on distilling the other "hard evidence" I have, but you can actually take a look at the very text of the conversation that started my journey through this crap back in 2007. Full text available at https://www.dropbox.com/s/iz3co2mdyck742f/20070307.pdf


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## EverEvolving (May 1, 2013)

The full text I published was back in the day when Yahoo! Chat was popular. That's where it came from.


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## EverEvolving (May 1, 2013)

And, no, there was never a meeting as proposed in the convo.


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

That conversation you posted seemed pretty clear to me. What else do you need to have as "hard" evidence that she has betrayed your trust and her marriage for years now?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Glad you posted the conversation. Until that I wasn't sure if you were misreading normal emotional connection. Obviously everything's in the chat though.

Yes expose and give the conversation to her parents. Otherwise she can continue to live in fantasy land and eventually paint you as the bad guy that she left and her SB as the loving step brother who was their to listen. No one will ever believe they were saying this stuff and you will be the vilian.

Plus exposure is just as important purely to snap people back into reality.


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## EverEvolving (May 1, 2013)

I haven't really spoken to my wife in the better part of 3-4 days now, though she's seemingly trying to engage me. Not confrontationally, but just (I'm guessing) wanting to just be able to get back to where it was before my latest discovery (which wasn't bad).

After this discovery (of breach of NC, regardless of whether or not the gay story is true), I can only describe her attitude as one of righteous indignation (wow). The last text messages she sent me prior to my non-communication with her were these:



> Her: I figured you left the card in my car before you didn't trust me anymore. (I left a greeting card on her steering wheel a couple of days prior, but since she occasionally works from home, the discussion we had came after my having left it there)
> 
> Me: I don't really know what to say to that. I don't want to make you angrier.
> 
> Her: Say what you want. Anger has never stopped you before.


Now, I don't know what happened, but nit long after this, something in me just snapped. It was like "I don't give a F, I really don't feel like talking to you." She was of like mind until last night, I think it was. She asked me when I'd be home, and I gave her a rough idea. She told me to be careful (I was DJing a wedding in Dayton, about 45 minutes away). On my way home, she asked me if I was almost home. I felt that tinge of "I don't want to talk to you" again, so I told her I decided I was going out afterwards (to the place where I normally DJ on Saturday nights). 

Here I am now, and she's sending me messages on Facebook, which I haven't read, nor do I really care to.


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## EverEvolving (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Re: Wife's EA with Stepbrother...Expose to Family vs. Don't Ask Family for Help p*



Thundarr said:


> Glad you posted the conversation. Until that I wasn't sure if you were misreading normal emotional connection. Obviously everything's in the chat though.
> 
> Yes expose and give the conversation to her parents. Otherwise she can continue to live in fantasy land and eventually paint you as the bad guy that she left and her SB as the loving step brother who was their to listen. No one will ever believe they were saying this stuff and you will be the vilian.
> 
> Plus exposure is just as important purely to snap people back into reality.


I will eventually post the discovery from a year later, but I am on an Android phone right now, so file manipulation is somewhat clumsy. I also have to distill identities and whatnot.


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## EverEvolving (May 1, 2013)

So, she just asked me if I was still angry with her. I answered with a "non-answer" of "You still angry at me?" She denies she's angry with me, but wants "peace all around". I tell her, "Yeah, so would I, but sometimes that's hard to come by." She asks why. I reply, "why do you think?" She says "I am asking you." I said, "And I'm asking you to take a stab at it." She says "not playing this game." I simply said, "OK." and ended the exchange. Now she's asking me to "just tell [her] what's on my mind." And while I'm typing this out, she says "... Or not." 

God, this is infuriating.


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## EverEvolving (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Re: Wife's EA with Stepbrother...Expose to Family vs. Don't Ask Family for Help p*



EverEvolving said:


> So, she just asked me if I was still angry with her. I answered with a "non-answer" of "You still angry at me?" She denies she's angry with me, but wants "peace all around". I tell her, "Yeah, so would I, but sometimes that's hard to come by." She asks why. I reply, "why do you think?" She says "I am asking you." I said, "And I'm asking you to take a stab at it." She says "not playing this game." I simply said, "OK." and ended the exchange. Now she's asking me to "just tell [her] what's on my mind." And while I'm typing this out, she says "... Or not."
> 
> God, this is infuriating.


This was all in FB chat, btw. I don't know if I can maintain composure talking to her about it face-to-face right now.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

*Re: Wife's EA with Stepbrother...Expose to Family vs. Don't Ask Family for Help per*



Chris989 said:


> Hi. I think the 180 is about the way you interact with your spouse.
> 
> Exposure is about stopping the affair.
> 
> You need to do both.


Agree 1000%!


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

*Re: Wife's EA with Stepbrother...Expose to Family vs. Don't Ask Family for Help p*



EverEvolving said:


> S*ometimes, a part of me wants to buy her a one-way ticket to Florida *so she and he could explore their tensions and he could eventually wind up physically abusive like it seems he has in the past. Let's just say his picture is on some county Sheriff's website down in FL post-arrest. Seems the girl did some damage, too. You go, girl.


Now I like this idea!


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## EverEvolving (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Re: Wife's EA with Stepbrother...Expose to Family vs. Don't Ask Family for Help p*



thatbpguy said:


> Now I like this idea!


Of course, that's my anger talking.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

*Re: Wife's EA with Stepbrother...Expose to Family vs. Don't Ask Family for Help p*



EverEvolving said:


> Well, I'm working on distilling the other "hard evidence" I have, but you can actually take a look at the very text of the conversation that started my journey through this crap back in 2007. Full text available at https://www.dropbox.com/s/iz3co2mdyck742f/20070307.pdf


WOW!!

Send that to everyone and expose this for what it is.


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## EverEvolving (May 1, 2013)

*Re: Re: Wife's EA with Stepbrother...Expose to Family vs. Don't Ask Family for Help p*



thatbpguy said:


> WOW!!
> 
> Send that to everyone and expose this for what it is.


I'm sure this pales in comparison to what many here have laid eyes on, but yeah. I still go cold when I read it.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Honestly? You sound like two teenagers and both of you need to stop. You both are playing the "no u" game. She is right to call it a game, but she is silly for thinking she is above it. See, there should have been repercussions with the No Contact letter. Apparently there were none because she is still at home, the parents do not know and you two are arguing like teens when she was in the wrong.

She is in the wrong period. Now the dude is gay? If you read enough threads gay, married, kids, distance, time, In-laws, friends and any other reason doesn't matter when EAs or PAs are involved.

You need to make a decision and put your foot down.


> She says "not playing this game."





> "peace all around".


She doesn't respect your decision making at all with these type of comments. 

If you are going to engage stop playing games. If she says she wants peace all around:
You: End ALL CONTACT with SB or this happens.
Are you angry:
You: Yes, END ALL CONTACT with SB or this happens.

You set the parameters and then follow through even if it hurts.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

My guess is she has communicated with the step brother (sb) and he probably told her they should "cool it" for a while. 

IMHO you're being played. I also think that what "they" have is actual affection for one another - probably true-love of a sort that develops over a long time and can't be sated because of family ties. 

Do you share kids with her? What do you see as success? - her cutting out all contact with him or just cutting out romantic contact? BC I don't think either is possible, not for a long time anyway. 

Considering divorce? It's a tool that can be a sobering wake-up call.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey EE----this doesn't pale in comparison to anything---its WAY out of line---and it needs to be stopped

Her parents need to know----and she needs to be put on notice---that if she doesn't stop, and stop RIGHT NOW-----she can go let him support her, as in D.

You need to take a very hard line---before they do figure out someway to get together---and then things are a thousand times worse

I don't care how innocent she says the talk may be---it is NOT innocent----BROTHERS AND SISTER DO NOT TALK TO EACH OTHER LIKE THAT

Put a stop to it now---and do it with D, on the table---she needs a hard dose of REALITY, and she needs it NOW---she is either a married wife---or she isn't---tell her she can decide what she wants---but you just may not be around to await her decision----she EITHER LOVES YOU, AND IS PROPERLY MARRIED TO YOU, OR SHE IS NOT.

Also do not put up with any drama by her---nor arguing/discussions/manipulations---JUST TELL HER---IT STOPS, OR HER MGE IS OVER


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## EverEvolving (May 1, 2013)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> If you are going to engage stop playing games. If she says she wants peace all around:
> You: End ALL CONTACT with SB or this happens.
> Are you angry:
> You: Yes, END ALL CONTACT with SB or this happens.


I appreciate everyone's responses, and I can understand why you say that we sound like we're "arguing like teenagers," and perhaps we are, but I would hope, even as a "newbie" to this site, that it is taken for granted to some extent that most of us "newb's" aren't really thinking clearly in the first place. I recognize that. I've said earlier that "my best thinking got me here."

Now, with respect to what I've quoted above, you end each line with "this happens." I'm assuming that you mean "whatever consequence I decide to set," such as "you move out," "we're done," "I buy you a one-way ticket to Florida so your stepbrotherboyfriend can bang you and beat the snot out of you eventually when he feels like it," etc.?


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

You're a grown man, you obviously don't need to read between the lines to see what is happening. You want to engage in rug sweeping that is fine, whatever is going on here is deeper than any rug sweep or temporary silent treatment can fix. 

THIS BEHAVIOR IS INAPPROPRIATE

end of, no excuses. You *****foot around this, you only encourage it, expose and blow this out the water.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

*Re: Wife's EA with Stepbrother...Expose to Family vs. Don't Ask Family for Help p*



EverEvolving said:


> Well, I'm working on distilling the other "hard evidence" I have, but you can actually take a look at the very text of the conversation that started my journey through this crap back in 2007. Full text available at https://www.dropbox.com/s/iz3co2mdyck742f/20070307.pdf


Why do you refer to this as an EA, when it's clearly been a PA in the past and it's probably been a PA again. You were just looking away briefly. Hand these out at the next family get together. You might want to DNA your kids, if you have any.


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## EverEvolving (May 1, 2013)

walkonmars said:


> My guess is she has communicated with the step brother (sb) and he probably told her they should "cool it" for a while.


Entirely possible. No real way of knowing.



walkonmars said:


> Do you share kids with her? What do you see as success? - her cutting out all contact with him or just cutting out romantic contact? BC I don't think either is possible, not for a long time anyway.
> 
> Considering divorce? It's a tool that can be a sobering wake-up call.


We have no kids, unless you consider three dogs that I love as kids :scratchhead:. I think, ideally, it'd be great if there was no contact whatsoever, but I don't think that's likely. He doesn't come around much at all (again, he lives a number of states away), but there will be the very infrequent, occasional opportunities to present himself, perhaps at monumental family events such as funerals, etc. To be realistic, for me, success would be an *intrinsic* commitment on her part to cease and desist from all romantic communication or anything that could be so construed. I don't even know for sure that I can have that without babysitting the effort, in which case it would be more an extrinsic motivation rather than intrinsic. As wild as this sounds for me, I have thought about the D word a number of times over this past week. If it were to happen, as long as _she_ wasn't, I don't think _I'd_ want to be vindictive or anything. I would just want out ASAP, and then I don't know you.



jnj express said:


> Her parents need to know----and she needs to be put on notice---that if she doesn't stop, and stop RIGHT NOW-----she can go let him support her, as in D.
> 
> I don't care how innocent she says the talk may be---it is NOT innocent----BROTHERS AND SISTER DO NOT TALK TO EACH OTHER LIKE THAT
> 
> ...


I'm not at all defending her in any way, but just to maintain some chronological perspective, the transcript I posted was from 2007. That's hard evidence from that time. I will be distilling and posting a transcript from 2008 (after we were married) just for everyone's reading pleasure, and people can make of it what they will. To my current knowledge, there hasn't been any real communication between them since then until recently. I have checked in the interim, and despite the fact that the means I have are not all-encompassing and exhaustive, I've been fairly satisfied that there hasn't been communication in the intervening years. Of course, I could be wrong.

I think it was the fact that my experience has been that there _hasn't_ been banter in the last few years which made the most recent discovery that much more intense. It clearly brought back all of it. I feel as though I'm right back in 2007. Even if we were to assume that the most recent stint of contact with her SB *WAS* on the up-and-up, I have no way of knowing it. It would have been smarter for her to SAVE all the text messages and whatever other conversations so that if I WERE to discover it, she could show me, in a measure of good faith, that the contact HAS been appropriate. But I suppose we'll never know.

At this point, D is not off the table, but I don't know that I'm there quite yet. There are some options that I've only recently started learning about. As has been thrown back-and-forth on this thread, I haven't exposed what evidence I DO have to their parents (yes, I've been sitting with the huge elephant in the middle of the living room up my a$s for 6 years now). Although I really didn't know about this thing they call a "180," it would seem that I almost instinctively started down one or two of the paths paved by its tenets. I have not had any meaningful conversation with my wife, now, for 3-4 days, and she just wants peace. Well, let's just say I haven't offered it to her. I told her that "sometimes, peace is hard to come by." When she asked me, "why," I put that back on her (hence, the "game" she said she wasn't playing). It's like I just want her to say it, to own it. Not that I really think that she will, but I don't really have to spoon feed it to her so that she can get angry with me again because I am accusing her of something. This way, I don't accuse anyone, and she can be left "hacking the password", though I think she knows why she's getting the cold shoulder right now but doesn't want to hear herself say, "I betrayed you."


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

I mentioned that D can sometimes be used as a tool. 

IOW, when a WW (or WH) is being influenced by brain chemicals that keep them in a state of euphoria for the AP - otherwise known as "being in a fog". The serving of a petition for dissolution of marriage can counter the fog and snap them back into reality. 

It seems to me that this long (and you know about how long) term relationship is ruled by more than just temporary foggy brain chemicals. So, I doubt the 'tool' aspect will do much - you never know though, it could. 

My guess is that if you want to keep her as your wife you're going to have to go all out. Including therapy for her - and you, plus the elimination of this guy from her life. Doubtful IMO.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

I think you can download deleted FB messages from the archive. Have you tried that ?


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Good grief. 

If the roles were reversed and you were engaged in an EA with your step sister for 6 years; do you honestly think you wife would have put up with such humiliation and disrespect from you?

You judge a person by their actions and her actions continue to show that she has very little respect for you whatsoever. If you do not respect yourself then who will? Enough is enough. She is an idiot and you are a fool for continuing to put up with this.


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## EverEvolving (May 1, 2013)

Here's the second exchange I discovered, back in 2008.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5s76l2iiyy7ihql/20080522.pdf


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

The second one isn't as bad, but coupled with that first one holy crap. Sorry dude, I NEVER call my sister Hot. Something happened between those two that is inappropriate.

As long as they stay in contact, that potential will always exist.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

You'll find the step brother..like any man trying to seduce someone often steers the conversation into sexual/emotional territory. The You know I love you or wow you look good, regardless, this is supposed to be her brother (step), there is heavy steering on his part and tacit acknowledgement and reciprocation on her part..my question, this was in 2008 and till now you're still treating this with kid gloves, 5 years!


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## EverEvolving (May 1, 2013)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> The second one isn't as bad, but coupled with that first one holy crap. Sorry dude, I NEVER call my sister Hot. Something happened between those two that is inappropriate.
> 
> As long as they stay in contact, that potential will always exist.


I know that the second TS isn't as "juicy" as the first, but what enraged me about it was the fact that it was a sheer breach of NC that was not the result of some need-to-know situation, such as a death in the family, etc. It was casual and not out of necessity.

More interesting: 



phillybeffandswiss said:


> Sorry dude, I NEVER call my sister Hot.


Back when this first happened, I initially confronted the stepbrother (since, well, ya know, he's "family"), and while his tone throughout his response e-mail to me was very contrite, he did say this:



> "As far as the creepiness of the whole thing? The reality of it is that I met [my WW] when we were both 16. *We are no more family than you and I...we just lived under the same roof for 4 years*." (emphasis mine)


So, it seems as though, whether or not he cared to admit it at the time, that he doesn't really consider her "family."


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## EverEvolving (May 1, 2013)

Also from the SB/OM files (part of the response he sent to me upon my initial discovery and confrontation):



> *"Finally, thank you for being a man and confronting me with no uncertain terms. I respect that."
> 
> "I can assure you that there will be no more text messages (innocent or not), no emails ... or the like. I don't feel it is appropriate in the least for me to do any of the above."*


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## EverEvolving (May 1, 2013)

...not like that happened, though. Go figure.


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## EverEvolving (May 1, 2013)

BobSimmons said:


> You'll find the step brother..like any man trying to seduce someone often steers the conversation into sexual/emotional territory. The You know I love you or wow you look good, regardless, this is supposed to be her brother (step), there is heavy steering on his part and tacit acknowledgement and reciprocation on her part..my question, this was in 2008 and till now you're still treating this with kid gloves, 5 years!


Bob, if we were all impeccably adept at handling these situations, this forum would not exist, now, would it?


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

So the man essentially says, she's not really my sister, just a girl I lived with under the same roof, so all bets are off, writes nonsense to your wife, says to you he'll respect you and not write anymore then goes and disrespects you and continues to do so..with your wife doing likewise...

yes, aye, you can be snarky with your answers to me..still your wife and this man disrespecting you...save it for them


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Face book messages may be retrieved. Phone texts may be retrieved. What kind of phone is she using? Do you have the computer keylogged?

What sent you into this latest episode, did I miss something? Why are you beating about the bush, it doesn't sound like she even knows why you are mad?


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## EverEvolving (May 1, 2013)

Believe me, having read much of what's here, I, myself, am being squarely confronted with the fact that I suffer from a classic case of Nice Guy Syndrome and that it is time for the beast to awaken, so to speak.

Even so, rather than be completely reckless, I've come here for experience and information sharing. It's my hope that you'll all continue to do this with and for me.

Thanks.


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## EverEvolving (May 1, 2013)

She uses a Samsung Stellar (the Galaxy S3's smaller brother). Hope she's not having an EA with that!


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

BobSimmons said:


> So the man essentially says, she's not really my sister, just a girl I lived with under the same roof, so all bets are off, writes nonsense to your wife, says to you he'll respect you and not write anymore then goes and disrespects you and continues to do so..with your wife doing likewise...
> 
> yes, aye, you can be snarky with your answers to me..still your wife and this man disrespecting you...save it for them


What was your wifes reponse to all this?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Have you checked the online phone bill to see who she is calling and texting?


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## EverEvolving (May 1, 2013)

Yes, Chapparal. I've noted that it seems she's begun contacting him again since the end of February. Both voice and text. Facebook friending was a recent development, though, so if I get to feeling like talking to her, I may ask her about that, as if I didn't know that she's been texting/calling since February. If she simply agrees with the fact that I "know" that she friended him on FB, then I know for sure that she's being dishonest again and copping only to what she thinks I know.

And, Bob, I apologize. It's easy to get your a$s in a row when this is in your face.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

EverEvolving said:


> I know that the second TS isn't as "juicy" as the first, but what enraged me about it was the fact that it was a sheer breach of NC that was not the result of some need-to-know situation, such as a death in the family, etc. It was casual and not out of necessity.


 I think you misunderstand me. I'm saying that one isn't as bad on its own. Reading the first one shows you all of the underlying sexual tension in the second one. 



> Back when this first happened, I initially confronted the stepbrother (since, well, ya know, he's "family"), and while his tone throughout his response e-mail to me was very contrite, he did say this:


 Wow, you are a better man than me. I'd have been running for the door after that response. He's right, she isn't blood and I have heard of a few SB's and SS getting married. The problem is, it sounds like she settled for you. No, I do not know the dynamics, but those email exchanges are terrible. Oh and what gay person is going to type that crap? I'm talking about making sure you understand that what he feels for his step sister is appropriate. 




> So, it seems as though, whether or not he cared to admit it at the time, that he doesn't really consider her "family."


No, he thinks of her as family making material.


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## EverEvolving (May 1, 2013)

chapparal said:


> What was your wifes reponse to all this?


I never showed her that response. Honestly, I don't think it would change anything.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

So, right now she only know you aren't wanting to speak with her but she doesn't know why?


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Well your wife called your bluff and has resumed contact. Again if the roles were reversed would she be acting like you? She is so disrespecting you and your marriage. Please remember the following:

NO CONSEQUENCES TO HER ACTIONS EQUALS NO MOTIVATION TO CHANGE.

My question is why would you wish to remain with someone who treats you wish such disrespect? She continues to do this because she clearly has no fears that you will do anything serious.


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

EverEvolving, you have been rug sweeping this EA (maybe PA) for six years now (2007 - 2013). You said you have no children together, so why do you feel you don't deserve better ? For SIX YEARS now, some part of her is emotionally drawn to another man, and she gives you the emotional left overs. Why are you still with her ?

Now add to the above that the POSOM is her STEP-BROTHER !!! I don't care that they are not blood related, that's still some sort of incest in my book.

And I ask you again, "Why are you still with her ? " 

You sound like a decent guy. Drop this damaged woman and move on with your life to greener pastures !


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

It is quite clear to me that your wife considers this step-brother and her to be star-crossed lovers, brought together by fate, but also kept apart by fate.

She states pretty obviously that she would have undertaken a "serious" relationship with him if he would have done it, but that he cared too much about what others would think.

_Wife/New Fiancee(3/8/2007 11:43:07 PM): used to think it could be a possiblity...but you knew that. 
OM/Stepbrother(3/8/2007 11:46:03 PM): i just think of the family, what they would think--​_
It could all be lies on his part and he just is interested in her sexually.

I think the truth probably lies somewhere in between, he doesn't consider her to be his soulmate (as she does him), but he does like her and definitely would be up for meeting for sex.

She doesn't badmouth you and neither does he. That is a good sign. 

But still it seems that your wife thinks of you as the best alternative to the true love she could share with her stepbrother if only the world wouldn't frown upon such a relationship. That she and her stepbrother are soulmates is an idea that is deeply embedded in her and I doubt that there's anything anyone can do to rid her of it except her stepbrother.

One last observation for now: You really seem terrified of doing irreperable harm by exposing, by putting it in her face and making her explain it, heck, you even put up with sh1t from her over stuff that SHE has done wrong. But it seems that she doesn't care about doing any irreparable harm to you by continuing secret contact. She's not afraid of YOU getting angry. If she wanted to talk to him, shouldn't she have told you, so you don't get the wrong idea? You haven't exposed them yet, so couldn't you be trusted with the gay thing?

This may not have been an "affair" in the past, but it does seem that your wife and this stepbrother have had a PHYSICAL relationship in the past, and that makes the exes as well as steps.

_OM/Stepbrother(3/8/2007 11:28:23 PM): what would you think of a road trip in the near future...say, halfway to floridaWife/New Fiancee(3/8/2007 11:28:37 PM): may be a possibilityWife/New Fiancee(3/8/2007 11:28:51 PM): *sure you wanna go down that path again?*​_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*Re: Wife's EA with Stepbrother...Expose to Family vs. Don't Ask Family for Help p*



EverEvolving said:


> Well, I'm working on distilling the other "hard evidence" I have, but you can actually take a look at the very text of the conversation that started my journey through this crap back in 2007. Full text available at https://www.dropbox.com/s/iz3co2mdyck742f/20070307.pdf


Cheatiing varmints. I waited 'til I could get to my computer (Dropbox on my 'droid needs looking at) and what I read made my skin crawl. The levels of deceit and the fact that your wife was obviously getting some sort of thrill communicating clandestinely with her lover whilst her husband was close by? They're in a particularly *nasty* fantasy land with carnivorous unicorns and where the clouds are only pink because they are filled with blood.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

It's as close to incest as it could get.

Darn, this is not good.

She has known him since she was 16 years old. Now she's in her early 40s -- that's close to 30 years of this relationship. She's not about to erase all this memory now that's so deep within her.

No kids together, better to move on instead of dealing with this for the remaining half of your life.

I wonder if her attachment to her SB damaged any of her other earlier relationships?


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

*Wife's EA with Stepbrother...Expose to Family vs. Don't Ask Family for Help per*

It seems they have had sex at some point. 
I think you are not taking this seriously enough. 
(praying to god that my d and stepson met early enough in life that the incest taboo kicked in)


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## Mtts (Apr 16, 2012)

I think this has definitely been physical. For me it'd be impossible to move past this. The guys is attatched, one way or another, to the family. So much harder to get rid of this when part of it is permanently attatched in some form. 

Good luck and keep us updated


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

What is her history between her teen years and her meeting you? Where did you meet her?


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

walkonmars said:


> My guess is she has communicated with the step brother (sb) and he probably told her they should "cool it" for a while.
> 
> IMHO you're being played. I also think that what "they" have is actual affection for one another - probably true-love of a sort that develops over a long time and can't be sated because of family ties.
> 
> ...


:iagree:


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## distraughtfromtexas (Apr 25, 2013)

jnj express said:


> Hey EE----this doesn't pale in comparison to anything---its WAY out of line---and it needs to be stopped
> 
> Her parents need to know----and she needs to be put on notice---that if she doesn't stop, and stop RIGHT NOW-----she can go let him support her, as in D.
> 
> ...


:iagree:


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

So I'd send that to the family and frankly I'd be filing for D tomorrow.

Clearly he ain't gay and very clearly they've hooked up and has sex as far back as those texts.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I'd put a key logger on her computer and a voice activated recorder I the room, dump the transcript on the table pick up my bag and leave without saying a word to her.

She'll be on the phone to him within minute of you leaving.


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## BetrayedAgain7 (Apr 27, 2013)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Honestly? You sound like two teenagers and both of you need to stop. You both are playing the "no u" game. She is right to call it a game, but she is silly for thinking she is above it. See, there should have been repercussions with the No Contact letter. Apparently there were none because she is still at home, the parents do not know and you two are arguing like teens when she was in the wrong.
> 
> She is in the wrong period. Now the dude is gay? If you read enough threads gay, married, kids, distance, time, In-laws, friends and any other reason doesn't matter when EAs or PAs are involved.
> 
> ...


:iagree: Absolutely!!


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

The text exchanges that you have between your wife and her step brother confirm that your wife's step brother has the hots for your wife and is thus not gay. The text exchange between you and the step brother not only confirm the he has the hots for your wife and is not gay, but that they never thought of themselves as brother & sister so in his mind your wife is fair game to him.

The minute that he told you that "As far as the creepiness of the whole thing? The reality of it is that I met [my WW] when we were both 16. We are no more family than you and I...we just lived under the same roof for 4 years", you should have stopped treating him as her brother, and started treating him the same way that you would have treated any of your wife's former exs. Expose the true nature of their non-family relationship to both families, as well as their past inappropriate romantic interaction, when you explain to them why you are treating him as one of your wife's exs rather than as family.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

TRy said:


> "As far as the creepiness of the whole thing? The reality of it is that I met [my WW] when we were both 16. We are no more family than you and I...we just lived under the same roof for 4 years",


That would have been the first line in my exposure. 
Dude is "gay" as long as EverEvolving is snooping.


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