# Did I overreact to what I feel was an EM?



## goodguy401 (Sep 20, 2012)

My wife has know and worked with (not directly but as part of an association) this other man for about a year and a half. We have been married 10+ years and just recently it seemed we had reached the happiest place we had been since the very beginning of our relationship. However, she started talking about and spending more and more time with this recently divorced man and was also working for his business directly and through this association of business owners. The time she spent at his place of business extended beyond just work engagements. I started becoming suspicous of all the time and energy that was being directed towards this other man and his business. My wife responded to my inquiries that they were just good friends and she was feeling sorry for him going through this recent divorce. She said he seemed lonely and she was just trying to be a good friend.

However, the being a good friend extended to what could only be described as a flirty relationship. Communication was in person, on the phone and then an increasing amount of texting. I had suspicions that went back months and had intercepted a text of two that made me wonder. Things from her like "I know you like redheads best" when she texted him a picture of him with two blondes. Then texts referring to him as "boyfriend" or do "I need to get a new boyfriend since you don't respond to my texts". I also had a chance to meet the other man in a social situation and he was a total pompous ass. He put me down about one of my hobbies on the first meeting. Then on the 2nd social meeting he went on to berate my wife on her work in front of me and others (friends of my wife) for about an hour. I told my wife how uncomfortable I was and she said that I didn't understand their relationship (bantering at such). However, when discussing the situation with her friend she said that she was "very uncomfortable with the line of conversation".

Fast forward a few more months of feeling uneasy and her talking about and spending more time away from the family to be at his place of business (the business would be considered a place where you can gather socially). I continued to ask her if she had feelings for this man as my gut was telling me something was not right. This behavior was not like her. Anyway, after not being able to stand it any longer and seeing them texting each other frequently I finally decided that I needed to do some investigation to find out if something was "actually" going on or if my wife was just a flirt (which I know her to be). I looked at her phone when she was asleep one a couple different occasions. Again, just some flirty stuff from her (but not from him) and things like signing off "Nite Nite" and "xxoo". I kept inquiring and then she changed her password on her phone and started deleting their texts nightly. Because I was still suspicious I found software online that would allow me to download and save on my computer all her deleted texts.

I did so and found more things that seemed inappropriate. Texts like "I am kidless and dateless want to meet me at XYZ". Things like "do you miss me"? "I am here now can I get a hug". Again, less communication on his part and nothing really flirty from his end. I was also able to put together that she had given me "white lies" about her plans and whereabouts so she could spend more time at his place of business. This was after I had told her I was uncomfortable with their texting, etc. This is when I couldn't take it any longer and I printed out her white lies and these flirty texts. She responded that there was nothing going on and why did I break into her phone, etc.

Finally she came clean that she had a crush on him and was "playing with fire". However, again claimed adamently that nothing happened physically. She claimed it had to do with self esteem issues, etc. In essence that she needed an ego "pick me up". She left for a handful of days to think about why she had done this and how she felt about our marriage (which she said she was actually happy with but had just settled into this safe place).

I flew off the handle a bit and said some hurtful things (I was worried about losing my family--we have a son). I also set-up a meeting with the other man. But I worded it very carefully not to accuse him of anything (since I had read all the texts going back about a year). I worded it that I wanted to get to know him better so things would be better at home. He agreed to meet me and let me know about some concerns that he had with her behavior as well. Then here came the bomb. She found out about this secret meeting and flipped out. She claimed that I had met him behind her back in order to severe their friendship. This was not the case. My wife is super strong willed and I knew that she wouldn't stop working with him. I knew I would need to find a way to reconcile this without asking he to stop working with him. I also wanted to talk to him and see if I could rule out anything more then a EM.

My wife turned all this on me after finding out about this meeting. I was the bad guy that was out to sabotage her reputation within her industry and her relationship with this other man. She started talking about leaving me, etc. But she wanted to give it some time and see. I have worked so hard for this woman and our family. She seems to bring drama into her world at every turn.

Sorry so long. So first question, can this be considered an EM if the other party didn't reciprocate? He was working with her so he couldn't just ignore her communication. He told me in our meeting that she made him feel uncomfortable in several work situations (just being too needy, etc.).

Secondly, does she have a leg to stand on that my reaction was out of line? From my perspective I went into "save my family" mode. This was the reason for the meet and greet with the other man.

Thoughts?


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

goodguy401 said:


> My wife has know and worked with (not directly but as part of an association) this other man for about a year and a half. We have been married 10+ years and just recently it seemed we had reached the happiest place we had been since the very beginning of our relationship. However, she started talking about and spending more and more time with this recently divorced man and was also working for his business directly and through this association of business owners. The time she spent at his place of business extended beyond just work engagements. I started becoming suspicous of all the time and energy that was being directed towards this other man and his business. My wife responded to my inquiries that they were just good friends and she was feeling sorry for him going through this recent divorce. She said he seemed lonely and she was just trying to be a good friend.
> 
> However, the being a good friend extended to what could only be described as a flirty relationship. Communication was in person, on the phone and then an increasing amount of texting. I had suspicions that went back months and had intercepted a text of two that made me wonder. Things from her like "I know you like redheads best" when she texted him a picture of him with two blondes. *Then texts referring to him as "boyfriend" or do "I need to get a new boyfriend since you don't respond to my texts"*. I also had a chance to meet the other man in a social situation and he was a total pompous ass. *He put me down about one of my hobbies on the first meeting.* *Then on the 2nd social meeting he went on to berate my wife on her work in front of me and others (friends of my wife)* *for about an hour. * I told my wife how uncomfortable I was and she said that I didn't understand their relationship (bantering at such). However, when discussing the situation with her friend she said that she was "very uncomfortable with the line of conversation".
> 
> ...


read the bolded ..*He put me down about one of my hobbies on the first meeting*.Your Wife just stood and took it..Yeas she is cheating. Sorry


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

Forgot put a key logger on your home computer.And put Some VAR in her car..


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

goodguy401 said:


> My wife turned all this on me after finding out about this meeting. I was the bad guy that was out to sabotage her reputation within her industry and her relationship with this other man.
> Thoughts?


1. You: "Yes I met with him and he confirmed that your communications with him are borderline inappropriate and of concern to him. I'm protecting OUR marriage and if that means you have a chance to lose a friend then consider it better than having a chance at losing a husband and family"

2. Her 'pick me up self-esteem' is understandable but not at the price of costing you your self-esteem and dignity.


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## Cdelta02 (Sep 20, 2012)

Don't assume that just because he hasn't sent provocative texts that there is no PA. he may be smart enough to keep his side of the conversation clear. Or if he is in just for the booty, he may not really care much for texts when he knows he can get more without trying. Use the VAR and key logger as suggested. If there are patterns when she is out more, consider a PI. Also now you should consider that if the is a PA it's gone underground.


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

Let her get mad. You get madder. Shes having an EA and texting this guy. 

Don't let her flip it on you. 

Lay down the law, make it known that when it comes to the marriage you won't take any bullsh!t cause sometimes the wayward will only respond to harsh action. 

Also you shouldn't be this guys number 1 fan just because his text are flirty. He may just be keeping his nondescript so if a BS sees it they won't be suspicious. 

You may be dealing with a serious player here. Many men have met wtih husbands, shown 'concerns' and swear nothings happening or going to, but they'll still be getting oral from the BS's wife in the back of a car a week later.

Common misconception of the BS is that "They need time to go PA" not really. A broom closet, 3 minutes out in the parking lot, few minutes of stand up sex behind a stairwell, etc. Things can get physical pretty damn quick and the random nature of it usually makes the wayward crave more. 


You can stop this now though by manning up. By letting her know that when marriage is being threatened(and it is make no mistake) its no longer a democracy, its a dictatorship. 

A lot of what we post to you may sound excessive, extreme but thats the situation you are in right now. 

A 'harmless' EA can easily escalate to "I'm not happy and I want a divorce" or OM is prince charming and her soulmate and she wants to have his children and all that mess. 

Because in an EA the OM/OW is some perfect partner who never judges or antagonizes them and is so understanding while the emotionally abusive wife/husband at home is the devil incarnate and the wayward will rewrite the marriage history to where shes been miserable for years.

Thats why a common complaint is "I'm not happy and have not been for years" Now some of the time, thats the case. More often than not though, they were happy but just rewrote the history of the relationship to where they weren't. Minimizing the goods, exacerbating the bads. This allows them to justify the affair from the devilish shrew or the big bad boogie man they married.

EAs are like weeds, if you don't prevent them from growing early on they'll be a huge problem later and much more costly to get rid of.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

goodguy401 said:


> So first question, can this be considered an EM if the other party didn't reciprocate? He was working with her so he couldn't just ignore her communication. He told me in our meeting that she made him feel uncomfortable in several work situations (just being too needy, etc.).
> 
> Secondly, does she have a leg to stand on that my reaction was out of line? From my perspective I went into "save my family" mode. This was the reason for the meet and greet with the other man.
> 
> Thoughts?


Your wife is "in love" with another man. She calls herself his girlfriend. She texts him "Nite Nite xxoo." This is what married women do with their husbands, not what co-workers do.

She lies to you about spending time with him. She flat out admits she has a "crush" on him. He may be using her for sex. Hard to tell based on what you posted.

This I know: She is offering herself to him. Did he take her? Will he? In her eyes, it would be a great accomplishment to bag him. He thinks he's great. So do the two blondes on his arm. Your wife would love to capture this prize.

My guess is that they have had sex on one or more occasions, but he wants to keep it casual and play the field. He may even feel some level of guilt for having sex with her, but with her throwing herself at him every waking moment, with him being single, he is likely to have a moment of weakness now and then.

I am surprised she hasn't told you that she "loves you but is not in love with you." Ask her if that's how she feels.

Now, your question: "_Do I have a leg to stand on_?"

How could you even ask that? She's got you so screwed up that you don't know whether you're coming or going. Can you not see that your wife is in love with him and not with you? She wants him for sex and you for financial stability and to babysit the kids. To paraphrase your wife to the other man: "I am kidless and dateless, want to meet me? (_I'm available whenever you want me_)"


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

goodguy401 said:


> Things from her like *"I know you like redheads best" when she texted him a picture of him with two blondes*. Then texts referring to him as "boyfriend" or *do "I need to get a new boyfriend since you don't respond to my texts*".


Makes me think they had sex once, he wasn't all that thrilled with it. She calls him her boyfriend, but he doesn't respond to her texts. He already got what he wanted, no need to pursue it too hard any longer.


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## sharkeey (Apr 27, 2012)

You're asking the wrong questions. 

She's in the wrong yet you're questioning your own actions. 

She's got your head spinning that's for sure.


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

Also, big thing here. You cannot control her. Shes gonna do what shes gonna do. Unless you're able to stand behind her shoulder 24/7 you can't change. You need to give her reason to think otherwise. Let her know that if any thing happens, you're filing papers. 

This isn't a threat. Tell her that if shes gonna run around doing whatever she wants then you can do the same. Like I can't control what you do, but I can control whether I choose to tolerate it. Women are attracted to decisive and in control men. Women are NOT attracted to weakness, Begging pleading, licking her boots for her to stay faithful to her vows is THE WORST thing you can do in this situation. As it makes OM look like a real man, while you are emasculated in her eyes. 

Shes calling him her boyfriend and sh!t. If it hasn't gone physical(it most likely already has) its going to in short order.

Like I said in my other post, time to man up and lay down the law.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

goodguy401 said:


> Finally she came clean that she had a crush on him and was "playing with fire". However, again claimed adamently that nothing happened physically. She claimed it had to do with self esteem issues, etc. In essence that she needed an ego "pick me up".


Exactly how is it an "ego pick me up" to have other man put you down for an hour in front of your husband and your friends and ignore your texts?


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

goodguy401 said:


> I also had a chance to meet the other man in a social situation and he was a total pompous ass. He put me down about one of my hobbies on the first meeting. Then on the 2nd social meeting he went on to berate my wife on her work in front of me and others (friends of my wife) for about an hour. I told my wife how uncomfortable I was and she said that I didn't understand their relationship (bantering at such). However, when discussing the situation with her friend she said that she was "very uncomfortable with the line of conversation".


Why did your wife let other man put you down without speaking up to defend you? Did you speak up to defend yourself and put him down, or just suffer in "uncomfortable" silence?

Why did you not stand up to other man as he put down your wife for about an hour? Or did you?


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

Will_Kane said:


> Exactly how is it an "ego pick me up" to have other man put you down for an hour in front of your husband and your friends and ignore your texts?


Its not. Shes just minimizing her emotional attachment to OM. 

Hes got her line and hes probably been sinking into her for quite some time. 

OP needs to realize this before its too late.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Your chick is flipping this on you.....wrong!

I've been her long enouhg to know your chick is playing with fire and as her husband you have every right to protect your family.

She will label you controling so don't fall for it. LEt her know you will not control her but you will never share your wife and if she refuses the protection you have to offer then you will find another wife who wants the protection you have to offer.

See brother your old lady knows you ain't going anywere so she continues to screw with you. Hell why should she stop? She has your number.

I'm not saying you have to go all balls to the walls and cop an additude with her, but be calm but firm...YOU WILL NO LONGER SHARE YOUR WIFE........

Like I said before you can't control your wife but you can control what you will tolorate and if she wants to continue with this behavior then wish her the best and it will be on her for breaking up your kids family.......again you will not share your wife.


On a side note it might do you some good to alpha up a little and stop letting jerk off bad mouth you and your old lady. See the lack of respect you have now lost not only from your oldlady but from your self.

You can get it back though by setting up some new boundries and if those boundries are crossed then its time for the 180. A tactic of indifference that will protect you from more emotional pain your chick is dishing out to you.

Its time to get some respect back brother.....trust me I lost a lot when my chick was screwing around on me...you can get it back...we all do....what sucks is our ladies don't dig the new guys we become.....they respect us but just don't like the new guys we have become.......no longer getting pushed around by our wifes.
No longer the back up plan. No longer second choice.

Its time for the new goodguy401 to step up and ask him self, "do I diserve good thing"?

BTW, your kid will be fine once dad mans up and shows his kid he will no longer tolorate a strong willed women.

"Don't walk in front of me, don't walk behind me, but walk next to me"


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

You should have shut this down at the very beginning. Why you would sit by and watch this going on is nothing but amazing. EAs can flare up in a few weeks. Yet you watched this get worse and worse and worse. 

You stood by and watched another man steal your wife. You stood by and watched your wife give herself to another man.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Your wife is in love with another man.

Your wife is offering herself to him at every opportunity.

Your wife lies to you about where she is and what she is doing in order to spend time with the other man.

Your wife put a password on her phone and deletes texts daily to hide her interaction with another man.

Your wife was mad at you for approaching the other man. To her the other man is more important to her than you or your marriage.

You can not control her but you can set a boundary as far as what you are willing to accept if she remains your wife.

Normally I would say that she has to go No Contact with this man and never talk to him again, but I see that this is not going to happen since her career keeps her in contact with him. You really need to put your foot down now. She is going to be in the marriage or out of it - her choice and she has to choose now.

Be ready to let her go.


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## sharkeey (Apr 27, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> Yet you watched this get worse and worse and worse.
> 
> You stood by and watched abother man steal your wife. You stood by and watched your wife give herself to another man.


I think your tense is wrong.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Entropy3000 said:


> You should have shut this down at the very beginning. Why you would sit by and watch this going on is nothing but amazing. EAs can flare up in a few weeks. Yet you watched this get worse and worse and worse.
> 
> You stood by and watched abother man steal your wife. You stood by and watched your wife give herself to another man.


Like I said his WW has his number.

OP can turn this around but she won't like it.

Sure, what of, could of, should of.....but OP was affraid he would lose his wife if he stood up to her.........A mistake I will no longer make and I'm damb sure positive the guys that have already posted replies to this thread won't either!


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

It is really amazing to me how many men on here recently are so paralyzed by the fear of what WW will do, what WW will say, what WW with think that they sit by passively and let their marriage go to hell on rails and do absolutely nothing to stop it because of fear.

After it happens they sit around and cry about it and ask "How could this have happened to me?" "How could she do this to me."

Sad for them.


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## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

Do you really want to save your marriage cause so far you are doing the opposite. Stop being afraid, stand up for yourself and give her real consequences...
You are currently plan B. Her back up plan..

Women are not into weak, spineless men. Read some threads on here you aren't alone. You will be amazed how once you give an WS real consequences, stay strong, and start acting like you could care less about them, they wake up.

Really is the only way to snap a WS out of it and achieve true R.


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## goodguy401 (Sep 20, 2012)

Wow I certainly appreciate all the responses. This is my first time here. Also noticing there are a lot of pissed off guys here. Any ladies perspectives? Just wondering. I didnt just standby and do nothing. The aituation was certainly complicated by the working situation. The industry is new to my wife and she was trying hard to make her way professionally (I realize this will be scrutinized). She didnt hear him make fun of my hobby (an athletic endeavor btw). On the second meeting when he was belittling her I wasnt sure how to react because she works for the guy. If I exploded on him not sure that would have worked well at all jeapordizing her work.


Also the whole "boyfriend" thing makes this scenario seem so obvious. The truth is that she works as a kind of consultant to this business owner. Her job is to help his and other businesses in this industry succeed. Anyway her girlfriends refer to me as boyfriend as well. The picture with the blondes were two models that he was posing with at a function.

I am just trying to provide a bit more info. I am early 40's my wife is 7 yrs my senior. The guy is mid 50's in a business that is struggling financially. However, he is smart and has been to this rodeo before. Not so sure he was bangin away at a married woman shortly after getting divorced. We are not talking about a guy in his 20's. Also his reputation in this association would be pretty smeared if he was banging married help. Again, iys entirely possible that he was...but do we really have enough evidence to go there?

As soon as I brought my evidence to my wife I let her know this was going to go in an ugly direction. She asked me what needed to happen so that didnt happen. Thats when she came clean on the crush but said it easnt physical at all. If you saw this guy u would understand. I spoke to him, spoke to her friends...never did find a smoking gun. Not trying to be naive...but seems possible it is only this....one sided EA. I have known my wife for 15 yrs...she is a horrible liar and clumbsy at covering things up.

I have been doing the aloof i dont care thing for a bit now.


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## AlphaHalf (Aug 5, 2012)

> I also had a chance to meet the other man in a social situation and he was a total pompous ass. He put me down about one of my hobbies on the first meeting. Then on the 2nd social meeting he went on to berate my wife on her work in front of me and others (friends of my wife) for about an hour.


He chin checked you the first time and you folded. He knew he had you. Don't EVER,EVER,EVER let another man punk you down, especial front of your woman. It was a power play on his part to see what you would do. Then you let him talk down to your wife for an HOUR. Really I mean......Really. If you have weak boundaries you will be invaded.

You didn't overreact you reacted to late. Yes your wife is in a EA/PA with her boss...you sat on the sidelines to long and watched the action.


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## goodguy401 (Sep 20, 2012)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## goodguy401 (Sep 20, 2012)

Also thanks "the guy" for good level headed advice. I am listening.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

You wrote*If you saw this guy u would understand.*
My ex-wife just to give you an idea of her looks.Think Monica belucci ,.And the guy she was banging well, jabba the hut comes to mind.

So dont make that mistake to think looks has anything to do with it..


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## goodguy401 (Sep 20, 2012)

Jonesey, I get that. How did you uncover it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

goodguy401 said:


> Wow I certainly appreciate all the responses. This is my first time here. Also noticing there are a lot of pissed off guys here. Any ladies perspectives? Just wondering. I didnt just standby and do nothing. The aituation was certainly complicated by the working situation. The industry is new to my wife and she was trying hard to make her way professionally (I realize this will be scrutinized). She didnt hear him make fun of my hobby (an athletic endeavor btw). On the second meeting when he was belittling her I wasnt sure how to react because she works for the guy. If I exploded on him not sure that would have worked well at all jeapordizing her work.
> 
> 
> Also the whole "boyfriend" thing makes this scenario seem so obvious. The truth is that she works as a kind of consultant to this business owner. Her job is to help his and other businesses in this industry succeed. Anyway her girlfriends refer to me as boyfriend as well. The picture with the blondes were two models that he was posing with at a function.
> ...


Famous last words


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Malaise said:


> Famous last words


My wife was always a terrible liar, couldn't keep a secret to save her life, but she was able to compartmentalize and cover her ea/pa for months.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

goodguy401 said:


> The time she spent at his place of business extended beyond just work engagements. I started becoming suspicous of all the time and energy that was being directed towards this other man and his business.
> *EA Red flag.*
> 
> My wife responded to my inquiries that they were just good friends and she was feeling sorry for him going through this recent divorce. She said he seemed lonely and she was just trying to be a good friend.
> ...


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## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

I am not trying to belittle you. I am a serial cheater and know the cheating game oh so well. The wife you once knew is not the wife you know now... She is a liar, a manipulator, and very selfish. And as long as she can get away with it, she will. 

Oh and as I have learned the women posters on here are actually tougher and equally pissed off .


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

goodguy401 said:


> Wow I certainly appreciate all the responses. This is my first time here. Also noticing there are a lot of pissed off guys here. Any ladies perspectives? Just wondering...


Here's one lady's perspective: The guys are all right. You need to get tough with her.


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

So sorry you're going through this GoodGuy, at least you've found this site to help you. Great advice from a lot of people who have also suffered from betrayal.

I'm a BS and in R for over a year and a half. I know how badly you want to believe your wife and I understand that after 15 years you feel you know her more than anyone. I felt the same way once. I never ever thought my H capable of cheating on me, I trusted him 100%. Two kids together and married 14 years when I discovered I was wrong, so terribly wrong about who I thought I married. 

It took a stranger on my doorstep (the ow's H) and several evidence emails to convince me that my H _might_ of had an EA. He confessed to a crush, but said it wasn't as sordid as it looked (trickle truth). It took me bluffing to get him to discuss the PA portion of the affair. After his confession I mentioned divorce, then something seemed to click inside him and he finally started to realize that he had royally €*^ked up.

This all happened within one night, not even a 12 hour time span. I held off on divorce and allowed him to stay at home, even though it was like living with a stranger. He trickle truthed small details over the next few days, but it wasn't until he confessed to another affair from 10 years early that the trickle truth seemed to stop. He wanted to "prove" to me he was finally being honest, so he confessed to something I probably would have never discovered. Another knife in the heart, but afterwards I felt like he wasn't a stranger anymore. He still wasn't the man I thought I knew, but I was willing to try and get to know the broken person I married.

R is not easy. I will never trust my H or anyone like I did prior to d-day, but that's fine by me. Being blindsided is incredibly painful, I hope to avoid it happening again in the future. You can only be blindsided if you trust blindly.

My very long winded point is this, you do not know the person you are married to right now. Maybe she once deserved your trust, but not anymore. I read your posts and I see the person I used to be, and I fear you too will be blindsided. Don't trust words, only actions. Your wife's defensiveness is a HUGE red flag for it shows lack of remorse. She should be willing to do whatever you need to earn back your trust. Meanwhile, do not let her make you feel bad for doing what you need to heal. If that means you talk to th OM, then talk to him....but don't believe his bu11$hit either. My H and OW had already agreed to their "story" if busted, so corroborating stories means very little.

Good luck and stay strong!! I'm not on the threads as often, amazingly the pain of infidelity does fade, but I like to help others cope since so many were such a help to me after d-day.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

From reading through your post there might be one reason why your wife is not bedding this OM at every available opportunity... *because he did not return her feelings*.

If he had have done, or if he just wanted sex with a willing woman, it is more than likely that your marriage would be toast.

But if not with him, then with who? She might do this again with someone who does want her sexually. What then?

At the moment -possibly due to your vigilance- your marriage is only slightly grilled, but not yet toast.

What to do? I think MC is a must.

Your wife does not respect you, your son or the marriage. This is a concern.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Ok, get these books first and read them

"No more Mr.Nice Guy"

"Married man's sex life"

Don't be fooled by the title. Please do read them.

The only reason it did not get physical seems to because OM isn't interested in her. How dare she get indignant after doing what she did? If she gets mad, you get madder. You seem to be the typical "nice" guy that women like your wife do not respect. She did not care how you felt over the whole thing because she does not respect you and she knows she can walk all over you. Read the books first. They can save your marriage


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You are getting bamboozled by your wife.

This is very bad for a marriage.

You MUST make her decide betweent his frieindship and her marriage.

A friendship of this nature is totally inconsistent with a marriage.

Why you need a woman to confirm this makes no sense.

Wake up!


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

goodguy401 said:


> Jonesey, I get that. How did you uncover it?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She got busted,and was forced to come clean..

Most of us men here that has been betrayed.Are stunned how ugly
OM is..very often real losers..Strange but truth..

Its called affair down


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

goodguy401 said:


> Wow I certainly appreciate all the responses. This is my first time here. Also noticing there are a lot of pissed off guys here. Any ladies perspectives? Just wondering. I didnt just standby and do nothing. The aituation was certainly complicated by the working situation. The industry is new to my wife and she was trying hard to make her way professionally (I realize this will be scrutinized). She didnt hear him make fun of my hobby (an athletic endeavor btw). On the second meeting when he was belittling her I wasnt sure how to react because she works for the guy. If I exploded on him not sure that would have worked well at all jeapordizing her work.
> 
> 
> Also the whole "boyfriend" thing makes this scenario seem so obvious. The truth is that she works as a kind of consultant to this business owner. Her job is to help his and other businesses in this industry succeed. Anyway her girlfriends refer to me as boyfriend as well. The picture with the blondes were two models that he was posing with at a function.
> ...


You seem dead set on the one-sided emotional affair tack.

Take a look at the other threads on this forum, find some other guys married a while with young kids who posted here, also married to horrible liars who are terrible at covering things up, see what happened with them. Try to learn from the experiences of others instead of learning through the school of hard knocks.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

goodguy401 said:


> Wow I certainly appreciate all the responses. This is my first time here. Also noticing there are a lot of pissed off guys here. Any ladies perspectives? Just wondering. I didnt just standby and do nothing. The aituation was certainly complicated by the working situation. The industry is new to my wife and she was trying hard to make her way professionally (I realize this will be scrutinized). She didnt hear him make fun of my hobby (an athletic endeavor btw). On the second meeting when he was belittling her I wasnt sure how to react because she works for the guy. If I exploded on him not sure that would have worked well at all jeapordizing her work.
> 
> 
> Also the whole "boyfriend" thing makes this scenario seem so obvious. The truth is that she works as a kind of consultant to this business owner. Her job is to help his and other businesses in this industry succeed. Anyway her girlfriends refer to me as boyfriend as well. The picture with the blondes were two models that he was posing with at a function.
> ...


I am a woman, and I agree with all posts above your reply here (I haven't read past it yet though). It seems you have done the right thing on the whole (edit: I say right thing in that you have snooped and confronted. But not in that you have watched this for far too long before confronting. And DON'T EVER, EVER, let her know your snooping techniques again. If you know stuff, she does not need to know what or how. Let her come clean. If she chooses not to, give her the consequences. But don't EVER reveal your hand), but her whole behaviour and attitude stinks. The reason it stinks is because she was guilty and you caught her. 

She needs to be fully transparent to you now. Make sure you know her password on the phone, that she is not making excuses to see him, and that all inappropriate texts halt. 

I do think though, that the level of inappropriate texts that she was sending, the content and frequency and times of sending, that is too overkill for a one sided EA. Sounds to me they probably had sex, he went cool because he didn't want to continue once he had had a go. Or just that he is cool regardless and they have sex frequently. This is no way JUST her texts to him and her making excuses to just BE in his company. No way. More had happened, he has given the green light somehow for her to be so full on with him.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

I have now read all posts. And still agree.

Your wife has cheated on you and she is manipulating you. Prepare for battle. Get your armour on too because it will hurt. And stay strong. Do not bend or sway to her strength. Batter her down with yours.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

PA for sure!!!!


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> Ok, get these books first and read them
> 
> "No more Mr.Nice Guy"
> 
> ...



Here is a quote from another poster bff:


*Re: wife and best friend having (at least) an EA 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm only about 25% of the way through the Married Man Sex Life Primer, but I think it is a MUST READ for every man who is in or ever wants to be in a long term relationship. Talk about a mis-titled book!

The chapter on balancing alpha/beta characteristics alone is worth the price of admission. Thanks for being so insistent, chapparal. Based on the title alone I didn't want to buy/read the book, but it is fantastic so far.

BFF*


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Get a VAR for her car, use heavy duty velcro under the front seat. They always call from the car. You can get a great one (Olympus $99) at best buy. There are cheaper models but they may not work as well. Check phone bill for how many texts calls she is making to him.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Call his ex and see why they divorced.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

goodguy401 said:


> The aituation was certainly complicated by the working situation. The industry is new to my wife and she was trying hard to make her way professionally (I realize this will be scrutinized). .


Then she has completely failed, because she's not kept this at business or at a professional level.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

goodguy401 said:


> I have known my wife for 15 yrs...she is a horrible liar and clumbsy at covering things up.
> 
> .


Cheaters are highly motivated to hide and protected their affairs, so while your wife may have started out a bad liar and clumsy she will be learning to hide and lie better, and each time you confront she is getting better at it.

You've got maybe one last chance to get the evidence and blow this out of the water.

She's cross the line in terms of loyalty - she's chosen the OM over you in that regard. She's lying to you, to visit him. She's hiding conversations and texts from you, while having them with him. And when you want to talk to him, she gets ballistic - ON YOU.

See how each step of the way, she cuts you out more to be with him and expand the relationship and the contact she has with him?

Get a VAR in her car.

If you've got the money hire a PI to watch them together.


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

What is EM? I don't know how anything could be an overreation to this situation. She's clearly ****ing him.


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

goodguy401 said:


> I have known my wife for 15 yrs...she is a horrible liar and clumbsy at covering things up.


Hence all the things you have found that you now seem to be denying are evidence that she's ****ing him.

Why are you being aloof? Why would you pretend you didn't care about your wife acting this way? By doing that you're practically telling her to go ahead and **** him.


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## goodguy401 (Sep 20, 2012)

Alright I am hearing you all. Believe me when I started uncovering the texts (in detail once I downloaded all of them-even deleted ones) I was sure that this had gone beyond a simple crush. It was obvious that my wife was throwing herself at this OM. When I put some of the **** that she was doing on paper I left it on her bedside table at 3am and left the house in my car. I called her, told her to read the letter, and continued to let her know that I was currently driving to OM to ask if he thought it was kosher to be texting my wife at all times. Also, for the record many of the texts were work related, questions on events and what not. Since I have all the texts I am obviously able to take my time and digest them, compare them to my calendar (when I was out of town, etc). There really isn't much for me to go on...other then what would be considered these "flirty" responses from my wife. I checked all the images that go along with the texts (the software allows you to do so). No sexting, no images other then things like food.

So back to the night where I dropped the bomb on her. You all know that she turned it on me since I had obviously gotten into her phone. She didn't know that I had used Icloud to track her whereaouts as well. She was able to calm me down enough for me to turn around and not try and confront OM at 3am in the morning. Plus truthfully other then being a prick I didn't have any hard evidence that the OM had done more. From reviewing their texts sometimes it would be several weeks between contacts.

Fast forward now to my meeting with OM (which my wife did not know about). I had asked him in the email to not disclose this to her. I said I didn't want to make her unduly nervous and again I reiterated that I just wanted to get to know him better (one to one) since my wife seemed so vested in his business. He didn't delay in responding to my email and mentioned that he had concerns about her (she seemed more overwhelmed then usual, spinning her wheels with work, etc) and he was wanting some guidance on how he could help her without it being akward (his words). So we sat down at a bar and he just started talking. He told me that she created some uncomfortable situations for him in various working environments. Wanting him to join her and her girlfriend's for a glass of wine while he was trying to work, etc. That he had stepped down earlier in the year as president of the association as a result of not being able to work with her. (She doesn't listen, doesn't finish one project before going on to the next great idea, etc etc.). Again, his words. I just listened. Never did I accuse him or ask a direct question that would make him have to deny something. He went on about these texts with her and how they were making him uncomfortable and he had been trying to "distance himself" from her. He didn't mention the content of the texts but more about one night where they texted for a couple hours while watching the same event on tv (I was away that weekend). I had already read the texts from the evening he was referring to and there was nothing flirty from either of them. But he said it felt akward knowing that she was home in her bedroom and he was sitting in his living room.

Then he told me a story about his recent ex and a guy friend that she was communicating with when they were married. He said the OM was going through a divorce, his wife worked with him, there were texts, lunches, etc. He said he continued to become more and more uncomfortable with their interaction. After his divorce he ran into the guy and he tried to buddy up with him. He said that he wanted to tell this dude to screw off as he probably had something to do with their divorce (as it turns out the ex now has a boyfriend but not this same guy). I just continued to listen. He told me that he had "no interest in being that guy".

The next day after this meeting my wife went out to apologize to boss OM. She told me she was going there. She said she was going to let him know that her husband thought her interactions where inappropriate and apologize if that put him in an akward situation. Again, just to be clear she did not know that I had just met with OM the previous night. She texted me while she was there. On the way back from talking to him she called me and wanted to meet me early (me leave work). She was excited that when she bought it up he acted like he was actually somewhat oblivious to her advances. He told her if these texts had come from anyone else that he would have thought so...but not from her (based on knowing her). But then he went on to tell her the story of the OM in his story...however not to as much detail as he had given me. For example, he told me the guys name but not her. She was happy in that she felt like she hadn't totally embarassed herself. However, she did come clean with him that she had a sophmoric crush on him. Then she asked him if he had even a little itty bit crush on her and he said "no". She seemed pretty darn transparent at this point telling me about their conversation. And his conincided with what he had told me with the exception of the feeling uncomfortable in some work situations...he didn't reveal that part to her. Maybe just not wanting to embarass her too much? I also found out later that she asked him if he had talked to me and he told her no. Which I believe...read on.

So my wife and I hook up for dinner and she tells me all the above. Of course I am taking it all in because I have just met with OM. She keeps going on about how he was obvlious to her crush. So I keep the wraps on it for several hours but that one comment keeps bugging me. I crack and say that "I have reason to believe that you made OM uncomfortable". This is where she absolutely snaps...red face, throwing things down in the restaurant/bar. Now she wants to know my source and is getting more and more pissed as I tell her I'm not revealing it. I leave the bar and do not come home that night. She calls and texts what feels like a thousand times until I finally respond and I tell her that I met with OM. She goes crazy saying that I have ruined her professional relationship, etc etc...lied to her etc etc. She turns around and texts him too calling him a liar etc. 

He responds to her via text (which she shares with me the next day) in a pissed off tone that her and I need to get on the same page. He says yes he was uncomfortable but that it was only in these working situations and that he was oblivious to her crush. Goes on that he is not interested in being part of the drama, never chose to have a part. He feels like he is being made responsible for someone elses feelings, actions and insecurities that he was oblivious too. This is the beginning of my hell week....I don't have time for this.

Since then she hasn't been texting him anymore. They still have some email contact but it is business related. I just read their emails over the past couple days. Just refers to an event coming up that she is planning. And he only answers in one word responses. We have been working on our marriage and she was doing a lot of work at first, writing a letter to me about her vision of a healthy marriage, etc.

I am by no means letting her off the hook for this. Whether EA or PA the same truth exists and that is she was spending time and energy towards another man. Whoever said I was plan B is exactly right. I was and continue to be the safe guy. The guy that takes care of things financially, helps with our son (she is the first to say I am the best dad). She continues to spin and introduce drama into her life. That is what I have dealt with for 12 years now. I am level headed safe consistent guy. But I have a bad streak too and believe it or not I have a killer instinct. She knows and I have reminded her that if someone was to threaten my family it would get seriously ugly for them. She knows this to be the truth. She has taken me to the edge (arguments) a couple times in the past 12 years and she saw first hand what I become. She is scared of this side and has told me that she is.

I am standing back and watching her actions. She said all the right things after being turned in. That she loved me and our family didn't want that part to end. Was willing to see a counselor or therapist (just her) to work though whatever insecurities she has that manifest themselves in different ways. That she was happy in our marriage and this was some sort of midlife crisis and that her girlfriends have crushes, etc. I will continue to track her actions also but must do so very carefully now. I am a successful business person, she has a work at home business that doesn't amount to much of anything financially (she contracts with this association). I don't need this BS. I need someone who is committed to me and loves me the way that I love them. I am not weak...I have muscled my way through several businesses that almost falied but are now successful, almost lost our house, but am now on top financially. I have achieved what many would consider a very high level athletically while struggling though these issues. I just love my son and my life. There have been times where I have been very happy in my marriage as well. I have made my wife out to be a villian but she also has very endearing qualities. I do not have my head in the sand. It is time for her to step up for our family or step the hell out. About 5 years ago I almost divorced her (not for these same reasons) and she knows it. Another thing of interest is that this is a woman who has never been dumped in her life. Dating all the way back to grade school, she was always the one to break the guys heart. So she doesn't know the feeling of having your heart stepped on. I will do just fine if I have to go it alone. It will just be different.

Thanks for all your responses and advice. I really do appreciate it.


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## goodguy401 (Sep 20, 2012)

Drover said:


> Hence all the things you have found that you now seem to be denying are evidence that she's ****ing him.
> 
> Why are you being aloof? Why would you pretend you didn't care about your wife acting this way? By doing that you're practically telling her to go ahead and **** him.


Sorry new here. I meant EA from the beginning...not EM. Also, I think I didn;t communicate the aloof part very well. I was everything but aloof when I finally got enough evidence to bring this out. That was about a month ago. What I am doing now is stepping back and not giving her the attention that she is used to. I am using the push-pull technique. Bring them in, be sweet, and then step away and be aloof like you are not that interested (pissed in other words).


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Yeah..Everyone seems reasonable except your wife. She is the one with problems here. Maybe she likes the drama. I guessing the your wife was just an ego boost to the OM(?).


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

the guy said:


> Like I said his WW has his number.
> 
> OP can turn this around but she won't like it.
> 
> Sure, what of, could of, should of.....but OP was affraid he would lose his wife if he stood up to her.........A mistake I will no longer make and I'm damb sure positive the guys that have already posted replies to this thread won't either!


He asked if he over reacted so I was answering that question. 

You know how I feel about fear. We learn from our past. Hopefully from others as well.

Indeed he was afraid and the point I will continue to make is that one has to stop being afraid.

He needs to let go of the fear. She does have to go NC with this guy.

His fear of losing her has pretty much assured that he has / will. His chances of keeping her have lessened day by day. He knew this was all wrong a very long time ago.

It is a display of low value for a man to let another man take his wife in front of him as well as watch his wife give herself to another man.

I know we agree. I am just elaborating. My comments were not about being hurtful but to say that he under reacted and that because of this his worst fears may have been realized.

You know I absolutely blame affairs on the people in them. However, sometimes, the BS can intervene in these situations where their WS needs help to get back on track. Maybe these WS are not worth the effort. Idunno. But given the choice of intervening as the bad guy, having my spouse fall in love and possibly have intimacy with another and then reconsile after this, I would rather make my stand early on. So I suggest that to folks. 

Just my feeling on the matter having been the person in an EA. I know my situation was just my situation.


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

I think you've got your head in the sand if you believe she's not already ****ing him. But if that's what you believe, you have to end this. Why the hell are you doing push-pull aloof nonsense? You have to tell her if she wants to be married to you, she has to cut off all contact with him except business-related at work in the presence of other people. No texting. No going over to discuss things or apologize or any other nonsense. It's ultimatum time, not time for nonsense games.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Drover said:


> I think you've got your head in the sand if you believe she's not already ****ing him. But if that's what you believe, you have to end this. Why the hell are you doing push-pull aloof nonsense? You have to tell her if she wants to be married to you, she has to cut off all contact with him except business-related at work in the presence of other people. No texting. No going over to discuss things or apologize or any other nonsense. It's ultimatum time, not time for nonsense games.


Are you even reading his posts ?


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Are you even reading his posts ?


Yes. Why?


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## goodguy401 (Sep 20, 2012)

I'm going to do the VAR thing for sure. Will go to best buy today. So how do you retrieve the recordings? Is it true the battery only lasts for a couple hrs?


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## goodguy401 (Sep 20, 2012)

Forgot to mention that when I met OM I let him know in no uncertain terms that "I didn't like him" the first few times that I met him. He didn't seem too surprised and didn't take issue with that statement. He probably knows that he rubs people the wrong way. However, our conversation was actually pretty easy and not that tense. I had prepared myself for this meeting. And again, I am a professional, I have run companies, led people through difficult times, etc. He told me that he would follow my lead and told me to let him know if there was anything in the future that seemed inappropriate about their interactions. Also, that he would be distancing himself further...which he seems to have done and which I can tell has frustrated her (and she wants to blame me for). If he really was banging my wife don't you think he would have shown up to this meeting and waited to see what I had to say rather then just spilling his beans? Seems he would have denied everything. Instead he kinda went into bashing mode along with me.


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

goodguy401 said:


> I'm going to do the VAR thing for sure. Will go to best buy today. *So how do you retrieve the recordings?[/B Is it true the battery only lasts for a couple hrs?*


*

Smart choice.. A lot of VAR out there have battery time
everything from a couple of hours to 100 hours.

It all depends how much moony you are Willing to spend..*


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

goodguy401 said:


> Forgot to mention that when I met OM I let him know in no uncertain terms that "I didn't like him" the first few times that I met him. He didn't seem too surprised and didn't take issue with that statement. He probably knows that he rubs people the wrong way. However, our conversation was actually pretty easy and not that tense. I had prepared myself for this meeting. And again, I am a professional, I have run companies, led people through difficult times, etc. He told me that he would follow my lead and told me to let him know if there was anything in the future that seemed inappropriate about their interactions. Also, that he would be distancing himself further...which he seems to have done and which I can tell has frustrated her (and she wants to blame me for). If he really was banging my wife don't you think he would have shown up to this meeting and waited to see what I had to say rather then just spilling his beans? Seems he would have denied everything. Instead he kinda went into bashing mode along with me.


Please don't be so naive about OM..He is not the good guy, you would like to think..
he has had to much inappropriate behavior with your wife..So of course he will try to act like a decent man.trust but verify


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You're story is both scary and pretty classic.

Notice she went to the OM because she was worried about how HE felt. She didn't really worry about your feelings, what you got was denial.

Then when he said he was OK, she told him she had a crush on him. She could have walked away, but no, she had to fish to see if he was going to bite and be open to more.

Then she even asked him he felt the same way!!! More fishing seeing if he would be open to more.

Bottom line: Your wife was very much trying to develop more than a friendship with him.

My advice is to get busy with some affair proofing of your marriage.

You yourself - really need to read Married Man's Sex Life by Kay Athol - not a sex manual , it's got a really misleading title.

For both of you - try His Needs, Her Needs.

Right now your wife basically got turned down cold by the OM. That doesn't mean she's done trying however.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Have read through all of your posts and think:

Worst case scenario: What you know is the tip of the iceberg & there's a full-blown affair (OM in this case is good at deflecting).

Best case scenario: Wife is chasing after a man who is definitely not you & clearly has no interest in her.

There are many possible scenarios in between.

In all possible scenarios, your wife is not behaving the way a wife should. No matter the reality here, she has to stop.


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

It is very possible that the whole situation was your wife chasing after a man who did not want to be chased. Regardless, it's a very bold move and should make you question if she's done it before and met with success. Her pursuit seems too confident and bold to be a first time offense. Cheaters don't usually go full blown pursuit the first time out. It usually takes time to ease into a cheater mentality with subtle hints and thinly veiled inuendo. That's how it was for my H 10 years ago, a comment in IM that could've been blown off if not reciprocated. Fast forward to the recent affair and there was no mistaking intent this time around.

Hopefully you've already checked all your wife's old sent emails. That's how my H and OW got busted, so it's a good place to look for past slip ups. Also, if possible, read any of her old emails to girlfriends. Don't feel guilty for doing so either, you're trying to discover if you really know the woman you married. Odds are her girlfriends know her better than you at this point.

Bottom line, your wife pursued another man. She made her intent clear, whether it was her first attempt to have an affair you might never know. But right now she is thinking like a cake eater. She wants the financial & emotional security you provide, but also another man to validate her sexual and emotional appeal. It's a dangerous combination.


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## goodguy401 (Sep 20, 2012)

Saffron said:


> It is very possible that the whole situation was your wife chasing after a man who did not want to be chased. Regardless, it's a very bold move and should make you question if she's done it before and met with success. Her pursuit seems too confident and bold to be a first time offense. Cheaters don't usually go full blown pursuit the first time out. It usually takes time to ease into a cheater mentality with subtle hints and thinly veiled inuendo. That's how it was for my H 10 years ago, a comment in IM that could've been blown off if not reciprocated. Fast forward to the recent affair and there was no mistaking intent this time around.
> 
> Hopefully you've already checked all your wife's old sent emails. That's how my H and OW got busted, so it's a good place to look for past slip ups. Also, if possible, read any of her old emails to girlfriends. Don't feel guilty for doing so either, you're trying to discover if you really know the woman you married. Odds are her girlfriends know her better than you at this point.
> 
> Bottom line, your wife pursued another man. She made her intent clear, whether it was her first attempt to have an affair you might never know. But right now she is thinking like a cake eater. She wants the financial & emotional security you provide, but also another man to validate her sexual and emotional appeal. It's a dangerous combination.


Saffron, thanks for your comments and suggestions. I feel the same way as you, I understand that there was intent and likely something before this. I did read all her texts to her GF's as well, for the past year. This was part of my investigation. I'll see what I can do about the emails as well. To this point I have just focused on the emails between her and OM. It's a bit tricky to get on her computer without being found out. Luckily she keeps her email open and just puts emails in trash without deleting them from there. So again, she is not that sophisticated with covering up. She has left the same passcode on her phone and I know it...although I have stopped snooping on the phone for the time being. That is a very tricky proposition without being caught...and even more so now that she knows I have snooped.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> Have read through all of your posts and think:
> 
> Worst case scenario: What you know is the tip of the iceberg & there's a full-blown affair (OM in this case is good at deflecting).
> 
> ...


Looks to me like your wife and this guy got PA pretty quickly. He saw her as sexual satisfaction or an ego boost and when she got all dreamy eyes for him, he started back peddling fast because that's not what he was after.

Now the problem is that he's dumped her and your the backup plan. This guy's rejection is the only thing this will stop her from continuing. She may accept booty call status with him if she's in deep. Either way if you can't force NC then there's not much else can help.


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## jamie323 (Jan 18, 2012)

Im confused with your timeline.. Your first message about this possible EA was yesterday - and how your wife was being inappropriate and you said you met with the guy once etc and your wife didnt like it. Then you posted again with an update about things that seemed to happen for several days. Like meeting the guy a second time, then her apologizing to him the next morning, then going out to dinner and her flipping out - and you not coming home that night, and now seemingly the guy never wanted an EA and is now they only have a professional relationship..

I dont understand - did all of this happen between the first post yesterday evening and your long post this morning at 7:30am - or did all of this happen before you even posted the first time?

Sorry, Im just trying to make sense of your posts - it almost seems like things got 'solved' in a matter of hours.


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## goodguy401 (Sep 20, 2012)

So what I hear the vast majority of you saying, and it sounds like people that have more experience at this then me, is that there was for sure a PA here. Because I can't prove that my guess is that I should continue to snoop (which as you are all probably aware is a royal pain in the ass and extremely distracting). She's adamant that nothing physical happened at all...and that she has never cheated on me physically. A text I intercepted from her close GF said the same thing "you didn't sleep with the guy". Obviously she could be snowing the GF too. 

So is the process for me any different whether it was EA or PA (as so many of you are adamant about). She's not coming clean if it was or at least I don't have enough to make that happen.

She did show tons of remorse once found out. She just feels like I blew this out of proportion. To me it's kinda the same. Whether PA or EA it's energy and actions outside the marriage...so does it get treated differently?

I really want to do the NC thing but that will be a difficult road. She doesn't just work for the OM it's a group that he is a part of. This is such a royal pain in the butt (saying it lightly). However, I think I am getting close. As already mentioned she needs to show commitment (which obviously wasn't there prior) to me and our son. To date she has backed away from OM (as he seems to have as well) but as previously mentioned I could see her trying again once things settle down.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

I think it wasn't a PA though it wasn't your wife who stopped it from going there. The OM wasn't interested in her. But i could be wrong. Cheaters can be the best actors.Trust but keep verifying


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## goodguy401 (Sep 20, 2012)

jamie323 said:


> Im confused with your timeline.. Your first message about this possible EA was yesterday - and how your wife was being inappropriate and you said you met with the guy once etc and your wife didnt like it. Then you posted again with an update about things that seemed to happen for several days. Like meeting the guy a second time, then her apologizing to him the next morning, then going out to dinner and her flipping out - and you not coming home that night, and now seemingly the guy never wanted an EA and is now they only have a professional relationship..
> 
> I dont understand - did all of this happen between the first post yesterday evening and your long post this morning at 7:30am - or did all of this happen before you even posted the first time?
> 
> Sorry, Im just trying to make sense of your posts - it almost seems like things got 'solved' in a matter of hours.


No, sorry this did not just happen since I posted. I brought the info that I had accumulated (texts, gps) to light about the middle of Aug. I met the OM just once and it was about two weeks after. She met him the next day without knowing that I already met with him. And again, she told me about it.


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## goodguy401 (Sep 20, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> I think it wasn't a PA though it wasn't your wife who stopped it from going there. The OM wasn't interested in her. But i could be wrong. Cheaters can be the best actors.Trust but keep verifying


Warlock, you are one of the few who are able to calm me down. I like "trust but keep verifying". It's just a difficult dilemna. It's really hard for me to trust when I am constantly trying to find something (verify). I get that it has to be done but it's a contradiction of sorts.

To me it is obvious that my wife is being greedy. She wants everything that I offer but then to also live the life of a single person (be independent, etc). As you are all likely aware from your own experiences she is doing the "you are controling and possessive thing". Makes me want to just walk away and see what happens. She won't do better then me and she knows it (or will know it very soon after).


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

Jonesey said:


> And the guy she was banging well, jabba the hut comes to mind.
> 
> So dont make that mistake to think looks has anything to do with it..


The OM in my case looked like he walked off the set of the walking dead. I agree to not let the looks throw you off.


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

HurtinginTN said:


> The OM in my case looked like he walked off the set of the walking dead. I agree to not let the looks throw you off.


It effing unbeliveble:scratchhead:
The sure know how to pick them


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## jamie323 (Jan 18, 2012)

HurtinginTN said:


> The OM in my case looked like he walked off the set of the walking dead. I agree to not let the looks throw you off.


Its not about looks.. its about attention. These unattractive guys will absolutely worship a beautiful wife - stroking her ego like you could never do (because you have more self worth than that). 

Believe me, my wife has known, and been seeing the OM for going on 6 months now (several of them during our marriage) and her close friends have NOT met him yet.. her parents have not met him. Its a selfish thing - once her friends meet him they will say 'what the hell are you doing?'

..


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

goodguy401 said:


> Warlock, you are one of the few who are able to calm me down. I like "trust but keep verifying". It's just a difficult dilemna. It's really hard for me to trust when I am constantly trying to find something (verify). I get that it has to be done but it's a contradiction of sorts.
> 
> To me it is obvious that my wife is being greedy. She wants everything that I offer but then to also live the life of a single person (be independent, etc). As you are all likely aware from your own experiences she is doing the "you are controling and possessive thing". Makes me want to just walk away and see what happens. She won't do better then me and she knows it (or will know it very soon after).


I think in your heart you know you have to act. She doesn't deserve to have the ball of your relationship in her court. She's blame shifting as cheaters do. Don't fall for it or allow it. Your integrity is NOT in question here.


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## goodguy401 (Sep 20, 2012)

sinnister said:


> I think in your heart you know you have to act. She doesn't deserve to have the ball of your relationship in her court. She's blame shifting as cheaters do. Don't fall for it or allow it. Your integrity is NOT in question here.


Thanks Sinnister. It feels bad snooping on someone that you are supposed to trust. She acts at times like I am on trial and not her. F'd up thinking and like you say "blame shifting". The challenge for me, and likely for a lot of guys, is that we are straight forward thinkers generally. Not great at manipulation at all. And I feel like I am in a situation where I need to manipulate. I want to also distance myself to a certain degree and see if she comes to her senses or not. And if not, then I just move on.


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## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

okay, I'm a guy, nothing special by a long shot but still a guy. If some female starts to show me an inordinate amount of attention, no matter how much I love my wife, and I do, I'm going to listen and see what grows ..... unfortunately!!


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

goodguy401 said:


> Warlock, you are one of the few who are able to calm me down. I like "trust but keep verifying". It's just a difficult dilemna. It's really hard for me to trust when I am constantly trying to find something (verify). I get that it has to be done but it's a contradiction of sorts.
> 
> To me it is obvious that my wife is being greedy. She wants everything that I offer but then to also live the life of a single person (be independent, etc). As you are all likely aware from your own experiences she is doing the "you are controling and possessive thing". Makes me want to just walk away and see what happens. She won't do better then me and she knows it (or will know it very soon after).


Never let the controling comment go unanswered. Tell her you can't and would not control her or anyone else. That is just new age speak for people to shame other people into getting their way. Tell her you control only yourself and who and what kind of people you live and socialize with. Tell her you have no doubt she was try and might have seduced the OM. Let her know up front that your marriage is on thin ice. Tell her you are leting her know this because you are honest and you are giving her the chance to be honest. 

Let her know that her "crush" is the same as a full blown affair or might as well be and if it wasn't, it wasn't for a lack of her trying.

Also, tell her you read on the internet cheaters always use the controlling and possesive words. (Its True)


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

One VAR claims over a thousand hours!

voice activated recorder - Best Buy


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## goodguy401 (Sep 20, 2012)

chapparal said:


> One VAR claims over a thousand hours!
> 
> voice activated recorder - Best Buy


Thanks!


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## goodguy401 (Sep 20, 2012)

Review on this particular one (makes me nervous):

There is one downside, it auto plays-back when you stop it from recording. I guess it's so you can listen and make sure it's all right but sometimes I want to stop and check it in class, it has pretty loud playback so that's kinda annoying.
Overall I would recommend, it's a nice product


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## goodguy401 (Sep 20, 2012)

goodguy401 said:


> Review on this particular one (makes me nervous):
> 
> There is one downside, it auto plays-back when you stop it from recording. I guess it's so you can listen and make sure it's all right but sometimes I want to stop and check it in class, it has pretty loud playback so that's kinda annoying.
> Overall I would recommend, it's a nice product


Anybody used this one or something similar that doesn't have this issue? I can just see it now playing back for her in her vehicle.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

For me now, doesnt matter if it was ea or pa, the betrayal is just as bad. its all on the spectrum, and it is all on the wrong side of the line as to what's ok. In an ea the ws starts to put more into a relationship outside of the primary one, then escalates into damaging the primary to justify the effort take by this other one. The damage is done way way before the sex happens IMO. It needs to be treated at least as seriously. As seriously as any destructive addiction.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

For me now, doesnt matter if it was ea or pa, the betrayal is just as bad. its all on the spectrum, and it is all on the wrong side of the line as to what's ok. In an ea the ws starts to put more into a relationship outside of the primary one, then escalates into damaging the primary to justify the effort take by this other one. The damage is done way way before the sex happens IMO. It needs to be treated at least as seriously. As seriously as any destructive addiction.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

goodguy401 said:


> *Then she asked him if he had even a little itty bit crush on her and he said "no". *


Okay so I deleted the entire text wall to get this part out.

You do understand what this question was from your wife to the OM. FISHING!!!

She's had an undeniable and frankly UNHEALTHY OBSESSION (not crush) on this guy. 

If someone was truly trying to stop an inappropriate relationship. "Look I'm sorry, I've had a crush on you." The next question wouldn't be "Did you have a crush on me. "

Sorry man, she's not over him. You can't move forward in fixing your marriage until she is. SHE is the problem here. Not you and DEFINITELY not the OM.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

SadandAngry said:


> For me now, doesnt matter if it was ea or pa, the betrayal is just as bad. its all on the spectrum, and it is all on the wrong side of the line as to what's ok. In an ea the ws starts to put more into a relationship outside of the primary one, then escalates into damaging the primary to justify the effort take by this other one. The damage is done way way before the sex happens IMO. It needs to be treated at least as seriously. As seriously as any destructive addiction.


:iagree:

If not,what happens with the next crush?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

goodguy401 said:


> Forgot to mention that when I met OM I let him know in no uncertain terms that "I didn't like him" the first few times that I met him. He didn't seem too surprised and didn't take issue with that statement. He probably knows that he rubs people the wrong way. However, our conversation was actually pretty easy and not that tense. I had prepared myself for this meeting. And again, I am a professional, I have run companies, led people through difficult times, etc. He told me that he would follow my lead and told me to let him know if there was anything in the future that seemed inappropriate about their interactions. Also, that he would be distancing himself further...which he seems to have done and which I can tell has frustrated her (and she wants to blame me for). If he really was banging my wife don't you think he would have shown up to this meeting and waited to see what I had to say rather then just spilling his beans? Seems he would have denied everything. Instead he kinda went into bashing mode along with me.


Be aware that some men will go out of their way to try to bed the wives of men they do not like. The ultimate FU.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

goodguy401 said:


> Thanks Sinnister. * It feels bad snooping on someone that you are supposed to trust. *She acts at times like I am on trial and not her. F'd up thinking and like you say "blame shifting". The challenge for me, and likely for a lot of guys, is that we are straight forward thinkers generally. Not great at manipulation at all. And I feel like I am in a situation where I need to manipulate. I want to also distance myself to a certain degree and see if she comes to her senses or not. And if not, then I just move on.


Get over it. Marriage is about love and respect. Trust is a by product. Blind trust is one or more of naive, lazy or ambivalent.

If you have to "feel" bad go ahead but do not let that feeling keep you from acting.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

And some men will sleep with a women they're not really interested in anything more with and once they have they lose interest quickly which leaves her clinging and insecure.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

From your further post that elaborates the situation it does seem that all comes/came from her. Though whether there was a 'session' or not that fired up all this mess, it seems pretty likely the more I think about it. After reading your post update I thought 'blimey, it looks like it is all innocent' - the crush question backs this up I would say. I font think she would say about her crush and ask him if he felt the same if they had slept together. On the other hand, her behaviour seems well over the top for an unrequited desire.

What is most worrying is her behaviour. That is shocking for a married woman, a mother. That is teen infantile behaviour. And she doesn't seem to take on the full enormity of her actions. You say she was very sorry at first, but also seems to still be defensive and angry. She needs some boundary chats and books to read. She needs a tighter rein (put in place by herself ideally) if she is going avoid those situations in future. She should fully WANT to avoid them. If her story is true, or even if not, she is a danger to herself....and her family.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Yeah..Everyone seems reasonable except your wife. She is the one with problems here. Maybe she likes the drama. I guessing the your wife was just an ego boost to the OM(?).


She might have been a major pain in the rear to him! 

His reaction might have been: "Oh, thank God! Her husband will save me from those bloody text messages!"


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

The OM sounds kind of odd to me.He tells the OP he's not comfortable with the wife's texts,but then talks about texting her on at least one occasion for 2 hours.He could be someone who gets off on f*cking with their marriage.Nothing surprises me anymore.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

I think the most likely scenario here is the two of them have matched up their stories, the one thought up by the OM. You can't actually trust anything that either one of them say yet.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

I can't fathom where the doubt about this being PA is coming from. OM dumped her after the fling.

Back when going through my D. I'm ashamed to say I was hurting and needing validation and messed around with a married girl. She was not my type at all and it was a cowardly thing I did. I knew it right away it wasn't right but she didn't. I ended it quickly but she tried hard to rekindle it for months. 

This post triggers my guilt which may be why I've been blunt with prior comments. To me this just adds up. I don't like to admit what happened because it's shameful but If R is an option nice guy then your wife has to come clean. It just won't work otherwise. My apologies.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Hi - I'm sorry about all of this.

My advice is that she quit her job & have no more contact with OM.

You said you make a good living.

You said that her job does not bring in much money.

You have a child; she could be a SAHM and/or find another job.

Your family & marriage should be her top priority.

She could be "obsessed" with OM. Everytime she sees him, her obsession is fed. It needs to starve & die.

My Husband's 1st wife worked with a fugly OM (her boss) became obsessed with him & destroyed her family (2 children).


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

I agree with Thundarr, obsession arose due to sex and him doing a 180. 

ALL makes sense with this scenario.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Well, this might sound odd and I am not making a direct comparison to your wife, but she reminds me of my mum's old Welsh Border Collie.

The object of her desire was the handsome male dog who lived next door. She would do anything to attract his attention. Roll on her back, run up and down until my mother made here go in to lie down and get some water, as she would be so tired and dehydrated.

Yet the dog next door did not even notice her. 

You wife's relationship with 'OM' might have been one of "Notice me! Please notice me! Please notice me!" Notice me! Please notice me! Please notice me! Notice me! Please notice me! Please notice me! Notice me! Please notice me! Please notice me!"ray:

"No."


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Well, this might sound odd and I am not making a direct comparison to your wife, but she reminds me of my mum's old Welsh Border Collie.
> 
> The object of her desire was the handsome male dog who lived next door. She would do anything to attract his attention. Roll on her back, run up and down until my mother made here go in to lie down and get some water, as she would be so tired and dehydrated.
> 
> ...


It is possible, but it is also possible to effectively slam the brakes on someone like that with as little as a look or a well chosen word at the right time. If the attention wad truly unwanted, OM could have stopped it cold.


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## goodguy401 (Sep 20, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> She might have been a major pain in the rear to him!
> 
> His reaction might have been: "Oh, thank God! Her husband will save me from those bloody text messages!"


This is actually a distinct possibility. When I contacted him via email he responded that he was a bit surprised that someone (me or a friend) hadn't done so yet. He was referring to what he described as a person who seemed overwhelmed and would start new projects before finishing earlier ones. He said as a friend it was difficult to watch and he wanted guidance from me on how he might be able to give her guidance without it seeming akward. 

When she would send him emails that seemed kinda innapropriate many times he would never respond to them. It is possible that he got stuck in the middle of this obsession and because of the unique work environment (the fact that she works for an association with him just being one of the owners) he decided not to sour the realtionship by calling her out. I can tell from their communication that many times he made it very difficult for her to work with him (not responding to emails or responding only after days had passed or responding in just one word, etc.) I can tell she was frustrated many times by his lack of communication.

So it seems either MattMatt is right or there was PA and he was then trying to distance himself. Either way her intention seems the same to me.

The update as of today is that I am moving out of our house and we are going to seek MC. Her latest is that she never had a crush on him and I coerced her into saying that. Absolutely total line of BS. She is the one that came up with the crush thing after I had called her out on stuff that couldn't easily be explained. So now she contends that she did NOTHING and I have this crazy obsession that has gone postal. She says she will no longer allow me to coerce her into saying things. However, if you knew my wife you would know that nobody and I mean NOBODY has ever coerced her into saying something. She is fiercely independent and absolutely goes crazy if she is unjustly accused of something.

She broke this story with her mom last night while I was away camping with some buddies. This is where I think this new ploy of being coerced was hatched. I told her we will need to have an independent party (MC) talk to us, gather the information, and make a determination of whether of not she did ANYTHING.

OMG what a head tripper. Even her best friends aren't understanding how she cannot she her part in this. But you can't tell this woman anything...she won't listen!!!

I will wait to see what happens with the MC and see if she comes around at all while I live elsewhere. I am seeking validation, new boundaries and the love and respect that I think I deserve. It doesn't seem like I am asking for that much, right?


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## goodguy401 (Sep 20, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> I can't fathom where the doubt about this being PA is coming from. OM dumped her after the fling.
> 
> Back when going through my D. I'm ashamed to say I was hurting and needing validation and messed around with a married girl. She was not my type at all and it was a cowardly thing I did. I knew it right away it wasn't right but she didn't. I ended it quickly but she tried hard to rekindle it for months.
> 
> This post triggers my guilt which may be why I've been blunt with prior comments. To me this just adds up. I don't like to admit what happened because it's shameful but If R is an option nice guy then your wife has to come clean. It just won't work otherwise. My apologies.


Thundarr, thanks for sharing. This does seem like a logical explanation as well. It just a bummer that I might never really know. The ex-wife did not like my wife at all...I am sure due to my wife's flirty and overly friendly ways. It is possible that if there was a fling it happened quite some time ago possibly while he was still married or shortly thereafter. I want to say he has been divorced now for about 6 mos.

Either way, should it make a difference to me? Whether there was actual PA or only EA? She claims on her childrens heads that she has never ever cheated on me.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Do not leave if this thing head south you will get labeled as abandoning her, she will durn this around and you will be the bad guy for leaving her.

If I was your lawyer I would advise you on what a big mistake this will be in the near future.

Dude, STAY IN THE MARITAL HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Trust me, she wants more time to work on OM....hell there may even be a new OM you arent aware of. 

Not only will you be charged with abandonment, leaving the home is not the best way to protect your marriage, so stop maiking it easier for her to continue to behave this way and stay home.

This is a set up and your falling right into it!!


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

DO NOT MOVE OUT OF YOUR HOUSE! Are you crazy!! Absolutely NOT! She can leave if she wants to but you stay put!!!


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## goodguy401 (Sep 20, 2012)

Sbrown said:


> DO NOT MOVE OUT OF YOUR HOUSE! Are you crazy!! Absolutely NOT! She can leave if she wants to but you stay put!!!


Dude, I am feeling like I could be done with this crazy woman. The only chance is a MC that can call her on her ****. If there is really affair with OM then I am done because rather then come clean she has decided to flip 180 and say I coerced her. That is a messed up head right there. If she is being truthful and there was no PA, just her being a dumb ass, then the MC should be able to help. Also, there is no way with her personality that we can spill beans to MC and then live together. She doesn't want to lose her family and has made that clear. Me moving out is signifying that there are consequences to being an idiot.

Why do I want to stay married to a chick that can't see the destuction that she creates. I will give this a chance with MC but otherwise am ready to move down the road (like I was about 5 yrs ago).


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## goodguy401 (Sep 20, 2012)

Sbrown said:


> DO NOT MOVE OUT OF YOUR HOUSE! Are you crazy!! Absolutely NOT! She can leave if she wants to but you stay put!!!


Also, I am talking about a temp separation while we go to MC. Not a long term thing at this point. There is no reasoning with this person....not connected to reality.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

goodguy401 said:


> Dude, I am feeling like I could be done with this crazy woman. The only chance is a MC that can call her on her ****. If there is really affair with OM then I am done because rather then come clean she has decided to flip 180 and say I coerced her. That is a messed up head right there. If she is being truthful and there was no PA, just her being a dumb ass, then the MC should be able to help. Also, there is no way with her personality that we can spill beans to MC and then live together. She doesn't want to lose her family and has made that clear. Me moving out is signifying that there are consequences to being an idiot.
> 
> Why do I want to stay married to a chick that can't see the destuction that she creates. I will give this a chance with MC but otherwise am ready to move down the road (like I was about 5 yrs ago).


I think your missing Brown's point. It's not whether you D or not. It's that you need to be in a position of control when you D. Getting her to leave the marital home is crucial to this.

I know how difficult this is to realize when you're going through it. Heck I left the marital home when I divorced which I look back on now realize was a mistake. It's because I didn't have people like Brown and the_guy helping me know how to do it. And really the precedence for that position will start if you move out for separation.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

goodguy401 said:


> Me moving out is signifying that there are consequences to being an idiot.
> 
> To me,it signifies that you don't care about the family/marriage and are bailing on me...but thats just me and how I would twist it if I was tring to look like the good wife tormented by a horrible husband that drove me to OM !
> 
> Why do I want to stay married to a chick that can't see the destuction that she creates. I will give this a chance with MC but otherwise am ready to move down the road (like I was about 5 yrs ago).



File for divorce, have her seviced will you are packing her things, or have her served while you are packing your things...... The point of the matter here isn't about staying married to a WW its about protecting your @ss and getting a lawyer that will keep you from getting screwed will you show your WW an effective consequnence.

Your little consequence will turn in to a reward...sorry man, thats just how it pans out!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

The problem is that had he said: "yes, please!" she would have.

What about the next time with some man who takes her upon her offer?


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

I still doubt he turned her down. The whole putting you down in public episode was about getting a shot at your wife.


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## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

snap said:


> I still doubt he turned her down. The whole putting you down in public episode was about getting a shot at your wife.


He actually put her down that same night. This was a one way affair; doesn't make it right, as she would of if the OM was game. The OP read the texts and they seems to jive with the OM. If they did have an PA, he would of noticed something in the text, especially if it abruptly stopped.

I am a cheater so I am going to tell you OP, this isn't her first time, she was way to comfortable doing this. She was the aggressor. Women like her know what they are doing and have done it before will do it again.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Unless you are just done with her, you need to set up a polygraph. Is she convincing you she doesn't want to lose you? That way you can get a more accurate idea of what is/was going on. It may have been almost nothing to an all out PA.

The thing is, around here it almost, but not always turns out to be much worse as thinsg keep coming to light. 

The OM is basically saying, it seems , that your wife is incompetent in her job. Do you believe this?

Leaving the marital home is what most men are inclined to do and almost always leads to them getting screwed. Talk to lawyer ASAP.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

goodguy401 said:


> The update as of today is that I am moving out of our house and we are going to seek MC. Her latest is that she never had a crush on him and I coerced her into saying that. Absolutely total line of BS. She is the one that came up with the crush thing after I had called her out on stuff that couldn't easily be explained. So now she contends that she did NOTHING and I have this crazy obsession that has gone postal. She says she will no longer allow me to coerce her into saying things. However, if you knew my wife you would know that nobody and I mean NOBODY has ever coerced her into saying something. She is fiercely independent and absolutely goes crazy if she is unjustly accused of something.


Why are you moving out? You did nothing wrong. Now she is gaslighting you & calling you crazy?

OMG


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## AlphaHalf (Aug 5, 2012)

So she cheats, lies to your face and gets the house to herself. hmmm..... Being bad pays off.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

goodguy401, just dump her lying ass... Seriously. The only way a real R can work is if there two pulling the wagon.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

dude, find that dark side and let Hyde talk to her next time.
Let Hyde tell her she is taking a poly if she want to stay married. Let her know her ass is one step from being an OLDER D woman alone.
While you are a successful mature man with a playboy life to look forward to.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

goodguy401 said:


> Either way, should it make a difference to me? Whether there was actual PA or only EA? She claims on her childrens heads that she has never ever cheated on me.


I guess it doesn't really matter if you want to continue and it is ok just to let it go. And yes, you will never know...other than what your gut tells you. Is she being generally remorseful? Has she given you truths she didn't HAVE to? 

My man has an only daughter. He totally adores her, dotes on her. He is an amazing Dad. I wish he was my kid's dad because even as an ex he is ace!

He swore on his daughter's life that something I knew to be true was not. Over and again. Until I gave him the evidence. 

I know my man (ex now) is a liar. He didn't come clean on anything. He never gave me any hurtful truths. You know your partner. Does she come clean? Does she offer anything big that you don't know already? 

Please don't think I am saying she is lying. All I am saying is that if she is a liar and a cheater, this is the lengths they go to.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

goodguy401 said:


> The update as of today is that I am moving out of our house and we are going to seek MC. Her latest is that she never had a crush on him and I coerced her into saying that. Absolutely total line of BS. She is the one that came up with the crush thing after I had called her out on stuff that couldn't easily be explained. So now she contends that she did NOTHING and I have this crazy obsession that has gone postal. She says she will no longer allow me to coerce her into saying things. However, if you knew my wife you would know that nobody and I mean NOBODY has ever coerced her into saying something. She is fiercely independent and absolutely goes crazy if she is unjustly accused of something.
> 
> She broke this story with her mom last night while I was away camping with some buddies. This is where I think this new ploy of being coerced was hatched. I told her we will need to have an independent party (MC) talk to us, gather the information, and make a determination of whether of not she did ANYTHING.
> 
> OMG what a head tripper. Even her best friends aren't understanding how she cannot she her part in this. But you can't tell this woman anything...she won't listen!!!


She fuc*ed him.
Now she is clutching at straws. Badly.

Do NOT move out. Kick HER out!


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

MC teaches communication and listening IF you want to learn those things.

MC does not teach being honest nor does it stop affairs or cheaters. It doesn't teach morals or values.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

goodguy401 said:


> Dude, I am feeling like I could be done with this crazy woman. The only chance is a MC that can call her on her ****. If there is really affair with OM then I am done because rather then come clean she has decided to flip 180 and say I coerced her. That is a messed up head right there. If she is being truthful and there was no PA, just her being a dumb ass, then the MC should be able to help. Also, there is no way with her personality that we can spill beans to MC and then live together. She doesn't want to lose her family and has made that clear. Me moving out is signifying that there are consequences to being an idiot.
> 
> Why do I want to stay married to a chick that can't see the destuction that she creates. I will give this a chance with MC but otherwise am ready to move down the road (like I was about 5 yrs ago).


MC does nothing, if she's lying to you, she can and will lie to the MC. She wants you to cave and go crawling back to her to apologize, you were wrong she was right.

Zero remorse, it's all your fault. At this point, there is nothing worth saving.


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## tonyarz (Sep 15, 2012)

I think this is a PA from an outsider. I don't know your wife, but that has all the signs of a PA.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

It doesn't really matter whether she went physical or not

Your wife had a serious crush on another man, and had replaced you------SHE CROSSED THE LINE

Had her unwilling partner, been willing, it would have gone physical---so what more do you need

This whole situation needs to be handled harshly, no mr nice--guy, at this time, no lovey--dovey.

If you decide to R., this situation, she needs to KNOW, that if she looks cross-eyed, at ANY OTHER MAN----she will be in a D., situation

You need to be Hard about this----at this point, her attitude, and feelings, do not come into play

You tell her what will be, and if she doesn't like it---show her where the door is---she needs to see what REALITY, looks like---as in her, out in the big wide world, on her own, as a single D., mother, who has cheated----and yes she has definitely cheated---in that she replaced you with another man, in her mind---that is what that crush on him was----SHE WANTED HIM, you were on the back burner, and she better know from now on, that will NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN

Problem is in all reality, what does she really feel for you now---she has crossed the line, is your mge., emotionally over----she needs to become open, and discuss this aspect with you.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

The bishop said:


> He actually put her down that same night.


Put-downs, or "negs", are a basic tactic of pick up artists, nothing surprising here whatsoever.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

goodguy401 said:


> Dude, I am feeling like I could be done with this crazy woman. The only chance is a MC that can call her on her ****. If there is really affair with OM then I am done because rather then come clean she has decided to flip 180 and say I coerced her. That is a messed up head right there. If she is being truthful and there was no PA, just her being a dumb ass, then the MC should be able to help. Also, there is no way with her personality that we can spill beans to MC and then live together. She doesn't want to lose her family and has made that clear. Me moving out is signifying that there are consequences to being an idiot.
> 
> Why do I want to stay married to a chick that can't see the destuction that she creates. I will give this a chance with MC but otherwise am ready to move down the road (like I was about 5 yrs ago).


If you don't mind if she gets the house, then by all means. But ask me how I know you can lose the house by doing a 'trial' separation. MC is for people that want to fix their marriage.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

goodguy401 said:


> This is actually a distinct possibility. When I contacted him via email he responded that he was a bit surprised that someone (me or a friend) hadn't done so yet. He was referring to what he described as a person who seemed overwhelmed and would start new projects before finishing earlier ones. He said as a friend it was difficult to watch and he wanted guidance from me on how he might be able to give her guidance without it seeming akward.
> 
> When she would send him emails that seemed kinda innapropriate many times he would never respond to them. It is possible that he got stuck in the middle of this obsession and because of the unique work environment (the fact that she works for an association with him just being one of the owners) he decided not to sour the realtionship by calling her out. I can tell from their communication that many times he made it very difficult for her to work with him (not responding to emails or responding only after days had passed or responding in just one word, etc.) I can tell she was frustrated many times by his lack of communication.
> 
> ...


*Do Not Move out until you meet with an attorney. She can use that aginst you later.

Speak to an attorney and understand your rights first!!!*


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

And good guy how old is your son?


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

*Hey goodguy401:*

Before I start, you know that I have a lot of respect for how you handled this in the beginning. No bull$hit, you ended what could have been a messy situation. That's a lot to be proud of.

Having said that; moving out is not a good idea. Let's detach a second and look at the facts (as per your postings). 


You saw the issue happening and nipped it in the bud and accepted no bill$hit.
All indications are that this didn't progress to a PA.
Your wife seems remorseful and wants to work on making this right.
She is even considering to leave a job that she likes because she knows she screwed up.
The door with the OM seems to be closed for good because you did a good job of exposing.
You are the one having problems moving beyond this (and I do know how difficult it can be)

Leaving the home does have it's benefits but it also has many negatives. Put the legal aspects aside for a moment. There are 100's of posters here who have temporary separations with the only result being that their wives had time to think about things and decide that they want out of the marriage. Think about this: She's living with her parents who are committed to helping her. While you are away, the burden of caring for your family is not all on her, she is sharing it with her parents AND the burden of your constant lamenting and bringing the infidelity up has been lifted from her. I'm willing to bet that she might actually feel that she is in a better place without you. (at least short term) 

*DO NOT LEAVE HER! You will be the only loser in this situation.*

See a councilor and a doctor. Maybe they will give you some Xanax to relieve your anxiety, but you have to make an effort to move on. Based on everything you posted, she seems to be trying.

_*I know that a lot of you won't see it this way, but that is how I read his postings (and I re-read them this morning)*_


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