# Can a person fool a counselor or psychologist?



## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

My wife is meeting with a counselor or psychologist today and claims that she will pass without problem. 

That got me to thinking can a person who is not in their top mental shape (usually all over the place from one day to the next) play themselves off as being normal and functional well enough and long enough to fool a experienced psychologist or counselor? 

I already went once and didn't raise any red flags and have openly agreed to do any form of psych testing or such to prove I am not mentally off but my wife up until now has shown a very high dislike of the idea of herself going through the same tests. 

Now she is going to a different person than I saw and claims she will be just fine and will prove I am the one who is off but I just can't see how she could pull it off convincingly but I have been wrong before.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Of course they can. My husband was in IC and had even been diagnosed as sex addicted, meanwhile he hired a hooker. Then we were in MC and he still never talked about what he'd done.

Some people are better at it than others.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

married tech said:


> My wife is meeting with a counselor or psychologist today and claims that she will pass without problem.


Take her up on it, she is in for s SHOCK.

:smthumbup:



married tech said:


> That got me to thinking can a person who is not in their top mental shape (usually all over the place from one day to the next) play themselves off as being normal and functional well enough and long enough to fool a experienced psychologist or counselor?


They can I guess. But it would be best for you to be there to stop her when she lies and tell the counselor the truth!!!



married tech said:


> I already went once and didn't raise any red flags and have openly agreed to do any form of psych testing or such to prove I am not mentally off but my wife up until now has shown a very high dislike of the idea of herself going through the same tests.


That's because she knows deep inside that you are right?



People have a tendancy to get upset/show anger when they slowly start to realize they are full of ssssshhhhiiit



married tech said:


> Now she is going to a different person than I saw and claims she will be just fine and will prove I am the one who is off but I just can't see how she could pull it off convincingly but I have been wrong before.


GO WITH HER!!!!! 

Watch/observe and see how funny it is when someone "full of themselves" gets on the podium to be proven wrong.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Yes. My ex-husband managed to pass himself off to both me and an experienced MC as a poor beleaguered soul who'd sort of haphazardly fallen into an EA with a friend during a rough patch in our marriage. What he failed to mention was that he had been a serial cheater throughout our marriage, that EA had been a LTA, and that he was actively cheating with both her and another woman for the duration of the time we were in MC. 

People who compartmentalize well are often able to fool even experienced therapists. 

On another note, the fact that you and your wife have an obviously adversarial relationship where you are requesting that she "pass" a psych evaluation, speaks of a deeply dysfunctional marital dynamic. And a dynamic is one of those things that takes at least two people to create.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Hope1964 said:


> Of course they can. My husband was in IC and had even been diagnosed as sex addicted, meanwhile he hired a hooker. Then we were in MC and he still never talked about what he'd done.
> 
> Some people are better at it than others.






Rowan said:


> Yes. My ex-husband managed to pass himself off to both me and an experienced MC as a poor beleaguered soul who'd sort of haphazardly fallen into an EA with a friend during a rough patch in our marriage. What he failed to mention was that he had been a serial cheater throughout our marriage, that EA had been a LTA, and that he was actively cheating with both her and another woman for the duration of the time we were in MC.
> 
> People who compartmentalize well are often able to fool even experienced therapists.
> 
> On another note, the fact that you and your wife have an obviously adversarial relationship where you are requesting that she "pass" a psych evaluation, speaks of a deeply dysfunctional marital dynamic. And a dynamic is one of those things that takes at least two people to create.


You should've been there to point his lies/BS.

Same for poster before you



Most decent professionals will make sure they hear both sides of the story before making any judgement or giving ANY advice.

Just me though.....

Perhaps that's a sign of POOR counseling professional?


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

What does your W mean by "_she will pass without problem_?" A therapists role is to help the client face the truth and find the necessary tools to help with their problems... Therapy cannot work if the client doesn't feel safe enough to be truthful with him/her.

An elephant in the office


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

I'm not trying to prove her wrong. I want to help her and get back the woman I married. Thats all. 

Yes I have spoken to her openly multiple time now about us both going together so that the other can't BS their way through a private session. So far that's a no go in every possible way.

Personally I just want her to explain how the space aliens run our world governments, 
how astrology (her new thing this month?) can predict the future and set our destinies yet has no provable scientific backing to support it, 
how a person can be highly controlling, confrontational, extremely competitive to the point of open cheating at kids games and call that normal,
be emotionally all over the place from one day to the next, and have two or more goals and intentions for their life that totally conflict with each other and not see that as a problem,
and generally just undermine themselves due to impatience and poor planning day after day and not get where the real source of their problems is coming from.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

DoF said:


> You should've been there to point his lies/BS.


I didn't know. Once I found out you can be damned sure I brought it up to our MC.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Perhaps the person you married wasn't the real person and the person you have now is. 

What you need is MC and not IC. If she won't, that tells you a lot.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

married tech said:


> I'm not trying to prove her wrong. I want to help her and get back the woman I married. Thats all.


Perhaps I miscommunicated a bit.

When she lies to therapist, be there and communicate to both of them that it is not true/give examples etc.



married tech said:


> Yes I have spoken to her openly multiple time now about us both going together so that the other can't BS their way through a private session. So far that's a no go in every possible way.


Let her go > arrange for family to watch kids > show up at the session.



You have to be creative man!!!

Besides, who is she to tell you what to do. If you want to go to the session, you GO.

Screw all that...




married tech said:


> Personally I just want her to explain how the space aliens run our world governments,
> how astrology (her new thing this month?) can predict the future and set our destinies yet has no provable scientific backing to support it,
> how a person can be highly controlling, confrontational, extremely competitive to the point of open cheating at kids games and call that normal,
> be emotionally all over the place from one day to the next, and have two or more goals and intentions for their life that totally conflict with each other and not see that as a problem,
> and generally just undermine themselves due to impatience and poor planning day after day and not get where the real source of their problems is coming from.


hehe, some of this stuff is probably pretty normal....your wife is not the only one.

And I don't mean normal as in true, normal for humans to do hehe


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## SirLoin (Mar 24, 2014)

A normal person can lie undetected. Some people are very accomplished. Also, people can refuse to share their thoughts and feelings, so the counselor has nothing to go on.

However, a person who has lost touch with reality will have a much tougher time appearing normal. By definition, they don't understand that they are abnormal, so they won't be able to hide their strange behaviors. I have a relative who is schizophrenic. Everyone he talks to immediately ascertains he is isn't quite right. He just can't "fake it."

So, if your wife is paranoid and/or delusional, a counselor will probably be able to pick up on that. Especially given a long enough period of contact with her.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> On another note, the fact that you and your wife have an obviously adversarial relationship where you are requesting that she "pass" a psych evaluation, speaks of a deeply dysfunctional marital dynamic. And a dynamic is one of those things that takes at least two people to create.


She is extremely competitive and very demanding to which effect from day one she has made things in our marriage into a sort of competition or contest that she has to win at all costs even if the whole thing is largely in her imagination. 
I don't have a problem with her wanting a better life but I have a major problem with me sacrificing my life to achieve her life goals for her. No ones achieving my life goals for me but me and that's work enough as is. 



> What does your W mean by "she will pass without problem?" A therapists role is to help the client face the truth and find the necessary tools to help with their problems... Therapy cannot work if the client doesn't feel safe enough to be truthful with him/her.


I don't really know to be honest. Her words not mine. My guess is convince the person that I am the whole source of her problems and why she acts the way she does.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

SirLoin said:


> A normal person can lie undetected. Some people are very accomplished. Also, people can refuse to share their thoughts and feelings, so the counselor has nothing to go on.
> 
> However, a person who has lost touch with reality will have a much tougher time appearing normal. By definition, they don't understand that they are abnormal, so they won't be able to hide their strange behaviors. I have a relative who is schizophrenic. Everyone he talks to immediately ascertains he is isn't quite right. He just can't "fake it."
> 
> So, if your wife is paranoid and/or delusional, a counselor will probably be able to pick up on that. Especially given a long enough period of contact with her.


Great point


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

DoF said:


> You should've been there to point his lies/BS.


Same as Hope. I _was_ there, as it was marriage counseling, which we did together.  I didn't know. At the time, I thought it was exactly as it appeared to be - a brief EA during a rough patch. I wouldn't find out the truth for another 2+ years - after nearly 3 years of False R.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> A normal person can lie undetected. Some people are very accomplished. Also, people can refuse to share their thoughts and feelings, so the counselor has nothing to go on.
> 
> However, a person who has lost touch with reality will have a much tougher time appearing normal. By definition, they don't understand that they are abnormal, so they won't be able to hide their strange behaviors. I have a relative who is schizophrenic. Everyone he talks to immediately ascertains he is isn't quite right. He just can't "fake it."
> 
> So, if your wife is paranoid and/or delusional, a counselor will probably be able to pick up on that. Especially given a long enough period of contact with her.


Well she very much a hot head so I am hoping a few pokes will get her balloon to burst and let the real her out. 



> Perhaps I miscommunicated a bit.
> 
> When she lies to therapist, be there and communicate to both of them that it is not true/give examples etc.


That's exactly what I want. With both of us in a session neither can get away with over biasing their personal views of the other. That however has been shot down every time and not by me. 
I know she has things she does not want to deal with and puts a huge effort into keeping hidden or at least greatly played down. 



> Let her go > arrange for family to watch kids > show up at the session.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yea unfortunately she has kept the exact location and time a secret and would not let me know the details. 



> Perhaps the person you married wasn't the real person and the person you have now is.
> 
> What you need is MC and not IC. If she won't, that tells you a lot.


I spent some time in her home country around a number of her long time friends, family, and coworkers and who she is now is not who they knew. Who they describe is the person I married not who is she is now.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

I have been trying to pry things out of her for some time now to find what all it is that makes her unhappy to which this is what I have came up with being the most predominant and linked. 

1: She wants a better life but does not actually have the drive, motivation, knowledge and skills that pay the bills to go and make it happen herself. She thinks that others should do it for her. 

2: She feels that she is too old,sick, in poor physical health to accomplish anything herself now or to learn to do anything new that would help her get closer to what and where she wants. 

3: conspicuously theories I can't begin to wrap my head around.

4: She has a very difficult time accepting that her life went where it did largely due to her own impulsive actions and no one want's to clean her mess up for her. 

5: Others should be doing more to make her happy and her life good. (I find that highly shallow and selfish by my nature.) 

6: Happily ever after should have came by now and at someone elses efforts and expense. Her knight in shining armor (me) who was supposed to come and rescue her turned out to be an ogre that live in a tree stump in a swamp and is happy with his life as is. 

7: Lifes unfair and someone should do something about it. Just not her. It's too much work.

8: Overwhelmed, burned out, disappointed, out of shape and all around tired. Likely mildly depressed but cant accept or will not accept it let alone will accept that there are things in her life that she can not control by will alone or force others to do for her. 

9: Jealousy, envy, want and the like but lacks the will to go and get those things she sees for herself.


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## SpinDaddy (Nov 12, 2012)

As others have noted it is not a matter of “pass or fail” but don’t hold the mental health profession out as a delivery mechanism of the sacrosanct word. Look up the _Rosenhan Experiment_ on Wikipedia. Interesting stuff.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

If everyone swears that was the real her that you married then another possibility is that she's just very unhappy at how her life since marriage has played out. Have you ever asked yourself why she married you? Other than to be a KISA?


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> If everyone swears that was the real her that you married then another possibility is that she's just very unhappy at how her life since marriage has played out.


I know she is not happy with how things turned out. She had a very unrealistic view of what marriage and life in the US would be. We are not all super rich pampered and wealthy. 

The vast majority are just like the rest of the world. Average no name unassuming people who go about their days living the best they can with what they have and are content to accept it. 
Not much I can do about that. It's my lot in life and I am not upset by it.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

married tech said:


> My wife is meeting with a counselor or psychologist today and claims that she will pass without problem.


If she thinks it is is a test, then she has already failed. Why go to a counselor if you don't mean to do the thing?



> That got me to thinking can a person who is not in their top mental shape (usually all over the place from one day to the next) play themselves off as being normal and functional well enough and long enough to fool a experienced psychologist or counselor?
> 
> I already went once and didn't raise any red flags and have openly agreed to do any form of psych testing or such to prove I am not mentally off but my wife up until now has shown a very high dislike of the idea of herself going through the same tests.


What is this? Acquiring supporting evidence for a blame game? Find and fix the problem. Both of you. 



> Now she is going to a different person than I saw and claims she will be just fine and will prove I am the one who is off but I just can't see how she could pull it off convincingly but I have been wrong before.


Do both of you understand that a marriage does not get in trouble because and only because one of your is "off"?


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

married tech said:


> I'm not trying to prove her wrong. I want to help her and get back the woman I married. Thats all.
> 
> Yes I have spoken to her openly multiple time now about us both going together so that the other can't BS their way through a private session. So far that's a no go in every possible way.
> 
> ...


Do those things matter? Can you accept that she believes them and you do not? 



> how a person can be highly controlling, confrontational, extremely competitive to the point of open cheating at kids games and call that normal,


How about instead of attacking her for being "abnormal" you try to work with her to understand what is in the best interest of the kids. (Hint, that aint it!)



> be emotionally all over the place from one day to the next, and have two or more goals and intentions for their life that totally conflict with each other and not see that as a problem,


Why are her goals your problem? They are what they are. Can you accept them?


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## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

If someone can cheat on you and still look you in the eye and say I love you and fool you how easy is it to fool someone they have never met and will only be with for an hour or so.
We are all actors very seldom does the real person come out she will pick a character for the psyc and they will never know the difference.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

married tech said:


> I know she is not happy with how things turned out. She had a very unrealistic view of what marriage and life in the US would be. We are not all super rich pampered and wealthy.
> 
> The vast majority are just like the rest of the world. Average no name unassuming people who go about their days living the best they can with what they have and are content to accept it.
> Not much I can do about that. It's my lot in life and I am not upset by it.


I have a great deal of sympathy, though in my case I brought someone from the USA to a rich country. 

An annoying aspect is that this is an educated sensible person. We discussed every aspect of marriage before getting married and it turns out it was all BS and yet she cannot see it. The MC is looking at her aghast at times and would not recognise the lady I was engaged to.

Consider the reason the old friends do not recognise the nasty person is because she is not a nasty person. I have major marital strife, but I can see that there is no spite whatsoever, it was just thought that it would be fairytale land. Reality is a shock.

Frankly, I think I am doing a slightly better job about shoving reality in the face than you are. However, when the obvious step is divorce I hesitate. 

PS: I will add to that, I am writing as a man who does wihtout regular sex, earns all the money and wanted children but has will not be getting them.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

IIRC isn't your wife a highly accomplished, artistic, well paid architect? And the major breadwinner? And a lot of your arguing is over money (you wanted to keep the entire tax return IIRC) and your time- you are supposed to be building y'all a house (which you count as a massive financial contribution to the M)? But you didn't work on that over the winter? And you have young children?

I think you and she might be surprised by what the counselor notices.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Didn't she want you to hire out housebuilding stuff and get a job? And didn't you mentioned how incredibly thrifty you are, how much you have saved and lived without debt for a young man?

I am not unsympathetic with that. I am very thrifty myself. But I can also see legitimate concerns and frustrations from your wife's perspective and hopefully the counselor will help you hear her instead of just trying to prove that she is a crazy woman.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

married tech said:


> Well she very much a hot head so I am hoping a few pokes will get her balloon to burst and let the real her out.


Or show the counselor the ways in which you "poke" her...

Your wife should not be afraid of MC. I think she will be very pleasantly surprised.


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

Depends on the person doing the assessment. If they are dead as a door knob for non verbal communication. Yes a person can pass it no problem.

If the person is adept at seeing the "tells" so to speak then no matter how much a person presents themselves as normal they aren't going to pass that assessment.

Ever watch a behavior analyst assess someone? It's rather fascinating. There are always "tells". Body language, micro expressions, manipulators and illustrators. These are body movements like playing with you hair or touching the face when telling a lie or half truth.

Eye movement patterns that indicate auditory memory or auditory imagination...most lies are told while looking a person dead in the eyes.

I think all psychologists and counsellors and any working with the public community should take micro expression and body language courses. It would improve our community services sector greatly.

If the assessor is good she doesn't have a snowballs chance in he-ll of passing.


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## SpinDaddy (Nov 12, 2012)

CantePe said:


> Depends on the person doing the assessment. If they are dead as a door knob for non verbal communication. Yes a person can pass it no problem.
> 
> If the person is adept at seeing the "tells" so to speak then no matter how much a person presents themselves as normal they aren't going to pass that assessment.
> 
> ...



Actually the odds are about 80% the diagnosis will be incorrect: Rosenhan experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

*Re: Re: Can a person fool a counselor or psychologist?*



SpinDaddy said:


> Actually the odds are about 80% the diagnosis will be incorrect: Rosenhan experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Perhaps then psych assessors should have courses for micro expression and body language in their programs or seek to upgrade their skills with an outside source.

That is kind of sad the statistical data from that study. Very sad.


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## maybe not true love (Apr 4, 2014)

married tech said:


> My wife is meeting with a counselor or psychologist today and claims that she will pass without problem.
> 
> That got me to thinking can a person who is not in their top mental shape (usually all over the place from one day to the next) play themselves off as being normal and functional well enough and long enough to fool a experienced psychologist or counselor?
> 
> ...



Speaking from experience, yes and no. It depends on how much time a person spends with the therapist and how serious the therapist is about their work. I don't have things figured out by ANY means, however, I have worked through some of this in my early journey. Sometimes people go in with the intent to "trick" the therapist and other times the person really is having difficulty seeing that they are contributing to the problem. 

As far as "passing with no problem" - seeing a therapist is not a pass/fail event. It takes time, self evaluation, and hard work to rewrite some of the things that might be changing. If indeed, she needs help the therapist (given they take what they do seriously) will see this and guide her in the direction she might benefit from.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

This isn't really difficult to accomplish. Most of them aren't near as intelligent as they think they are. And if your goal is to tell them what they want to hear then yes you can fool them.


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## maybe not true love (Apr 4, 2014)

First, I want to say that if she is acting this way, it is not okay. Second, I want to say that by your descriptions of her behavior, you are extremely frustrated by this. However, I am sure that there are some things that she could reveal about you that would change the light in which we see you in. I believe that I have seen in another post that she just gave birth 11 months ago. Please correct me if this is incorrect. There are many changes that goes on with a woman's body both physically and chemically, so I would suggest that you try to keep this in mind. In relation to this statement, if this behavior was happening before the pregnancy then there are deeper issues going on. 

In reference to her going to counseling, are you more afraid that she is going to lie her way through to bash you or are you concerned with controlling the session? This is an answer that only you can give and it is none of my business to hear the answer. It is just something for you to think about. 

Also, are you attending counseling to get help for an unresolved issues that you may or may not have or are you going to prove your not the "crazy" one? My husband held this attitude. I have discovered many things about myself through therapy and while I am nothing close to "fixed" I have grown a lot and been able to accept more responsibility myself. One of the major hurdles I had to get over was that I am not crazy. I have a lot of crappy messages that are fogging my ability to be the person I want to be and know that I am. 

If she is evaluated and is diagnose with something like bipolar ( I only suggest this bc you talk about the mood swings) then the medication will cause weight gain. Is that the next thing you will not be willing to accept. And by the way, I was diagnosed with this by the pill pusher doctors who didn't care to take the time to figure out the issues. They just slapped a diagnosis on my chart and it turns out that the underlining issues were from abandonment fears and trust issues. This is why I offer this warning. 

I promise you that I am not trying to through you under the bus here. I just would like for you to step back and look objectively at yourself also. This is EXTREMELY hard to do. I know I am still in the process of doing this, but it might help you to take a more understanding approach rather than a blaming and scorned approach. I do not doubt that you feel hurt by her actions and maybe her by yours - I don't know because I don't know you guys, but I would suggest looking up things about abandonment issues and see if she follows these patterns for understanding purposes if you really love her and want what's best for her as you say you do. Honestly, this would have saved me many, many years of misery if someone would have pointed this out to me and I didn't have to get here through trial and error through therapy.

She has to come to the place of accepting things for herself. It isn't something that you can do for her or force her to do. Also remember, with knowledge you have the ability to be more compassionate and patient. Everyone does have limits of what they can take and you have to decide for yourself what you limit is, but try not to give her a certain time frame in which she should be back "to normal". Things come out in therapy that a person might not know is still bothering them or that they have pushed so far down and ignored because the hurt was too painful. Keep in mind too. You both, if therapy is indeed being effective, will have to reopen wounds that have been scabbed over for a long time. Some things that you are not willing to endure the pain at this time and some things that will bring up bad reactions. This is because you are making yourself vulnerable and for adult who think we are functioning just fine, it can be a breath taking blow. If this is the case, you, her, or both of you might have to rely on each other for strength which might also be difficult with the built up resentment and hurt between you.

I hope that what I have to offer has been beneficial to your and her growth so that you can be better individuals for yourself, each other, and your family. Take care and good luck.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> This isn't really difficult to accomplish. Most of them aren't near as intelligent as they think they are.


Hmm. Fair chance she would get found out then being my wife is not nearly as smart as she thinks she ie either! Skipped questions on an IQ test and had a fit that I didn't help her then said her score was meaningless because of it. 



> I believe that I have seen in another post that she just gave birth 11 months ago. Please correct me if this is incorrect.


No. She has one daughter that is 5 and a half. That's it and she is very well behaved. 



> In reference to her going to counseling, are you more afraid that she is going to lie her way through to bash you or are you concerned with controlling the session?


She can say what ever she wants. I am not afraid of the truth. What I don't want is all of her gross over exaggerations being used that she does at home to keep control over everything. 



> Also, are you attending counseling to get help for an unresolved issues that you may or may not have or are you going to prove your not the "crazy" one? My husband held this attitude.


I did a lot of counselling years ago and got all of my major past life issues dealt with. Some still bug/haunt me but I now know where they come from what to do and how to correctly deal with them in a non self destructive manner. Largely those coping techniques is what I am trying to get my wife learn to accept and implement into her life better so she won't be so controlling and confrontational about small inconsequential stuff.



> She has to come to the place of accepting things for herself. It isn't something that you can do for her or force her to do.


I have no problems with her accepting herself for what she is. What I do not like is her picking at me and being unaccepting of the things I do that she herself is far more guilty of. 

Fix yourself before trying to fix others is what I am getting at. I went through that a long time ago and now understand how important that is. 

Believe me if I felt there was no hope for us I would have tossed her out already and never shed a tear for having done it.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

married tech said:


> My wife is meeting with a counselor or psychologist today and claims that she will pass without problem.
> 
> That got me to thinking can a person who is not in their top mental shape (usually all over the place from one day to the next) play themselves off as being normal and functional well enough and long enough to fool a experienced psychologist or counselor?


What the hell is "normal". Now "functional" is another thing.



married tech said:


> I already went once and didn't raise any red flags and have openly agreed to do any form of psych testing or such to prove I am not mentally off but my wife up until now has shown a very high dislike of the idea of herself going through the same tests.
> 
> Now she is going to a different person than I saw and claims she will be just fine and will prove I am the one who is off but I just can't see how she could pull it off convincingly but I have been wrong before.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Blonde said:


> IIRC isn't your wife a highly accomplished, artistic, well paid architect?



Well paid and architect don't belong in the same sentence


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## maybe not true love (Apr 4, 2014)

I apologize for getting the pregnancy thing wrong. I remembered your name and I thought it was from that post. Anyways, scratch pregnancy hormones.

I understand that you don't want her exaggerations about you to demonize you in her therapist's eye if there is absolutely no truth to them, even the slightest bit. However, if the therapist is good and serious about what they are doing then this will come out if that is what she tries to do. The next obstacle for you might be the therapist figuring this out, making her mad and she just shops until she finds one that will agree with her and tell her what she wants to hear. Also common when people aren't ready to face their problems. 

I absolutely agree that before she comments on something you are doing she needs to make sure this is not also a fault of hers. Sometimes when people are confronted with something that needs changing they lash out whether they are guilty of the same thing or not. Something I have learned through my therapy is that even though we are not perfect - none of us- we can be very beneficial to each other if we just listen to what others have to offer. For example, I don't have an issue with smoking anymore, therefore, because I have overcome it, I am better equipped to help someone who is struggling who wants the help. I understand first hand about the regress and getting back on track on this issue. I do however, have major issues with self esteem, so my advice may only go so far because I have not had much success in changing the mindset. I have had some but only enough to give limited advice without being hypocritical. From your explanation above, this is where she seems to be? Ignoring her faults and "picking" on you for your when they may be the same? Am I understanding that correctly?

I'm sorry things are tough right now, but hopefully the future will be brighter. Good luck and take care!


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*The only real things that the psychologist/counselor is truly worried about is twofold:


(1) That they get their requisite hour or two of appointment time in ~ (that is, 45 minutes of a normal hour), and

(2) That you have the requisite cash to pay their announced hourly fee.

They could simply care less about whether you can fool them or not!*


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I participated in probably half the 3 years worth of therapy my older girl did. A good therapist/psychologist can tell when they're being smoked long term, i.e. after a few sessions.

The question is, do you have a few sessions or do you expect blood test like results after a couple sessions? if you are, it ain't happening.

There are a few clinical/behavioral standard tests that are about as useful as the test strips I check my aquarium water. After a couple of those the therapist will establish that you're not an ax murderer, that you're likely to open up and discuss things, and that you're likely to continue (revenue stream) and improve (reputation). 

Do expect fireworks from time to time, but do realize that it's a long term process, not an IQ test. 

Since I have powers of remote diagnosis :scratchhead:I would prescribe lot of contact with someone from the same culture who has been thru the system and knows the ins and outs of the USA. That someone would convince Mrs. MT that aliens are not likely to be walking the earth, and so on.

She's lacking validation. She has feelings and fears that need to be listened to and validated and then discussed and mitigated. 

Also if memory serves right you guys live in a very small community in a relatively isolated part of the country where the nearest non-local guy is on TV commercials, meaning, nobody from remotely her culture. So, she's trying to adjust as well as she can but...

If aliens from outer space listened to the mass media or talk radio they'd get back on their flying saucers and fly back as fast as possible, leaving radiation markers around our earth. That's how she's feeling. I was there. Thankfully I went to grad school first and that took the blunt of it.

I had a friend from India who literally started weeping when he saw another Indian at the local mall. That was 30+ years ago, my friend was the second Indian in town. Me, my country is obscure enough it takes Watson to remember the capital, but for the most part we had semi-western culture. Mrs. MT may or may NOT have such 'luck'.

Another thought would be to spend a month in Turkey (Turkiye?) and see if she behaves differently. Maybe she's not accustomed to little towns and such. I know I'm far more comfortable in downtown Chicago than in the middle of suburbia USA...

Things to think about. Remind her therapy is a process not a prescription.


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