# Implied consent from marriage



## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

In a discussion on another forum, someone brought up that marriage has an implied consent to sex, and this is why a husband shouldn't be charged with rape of his wife.

So the question is, does marriage have that implied consent?

I would say yes. However, consent is a thing that can be given and withdrawn. A spouse (because I won't assume that the wife can't rape the husband) can withdraw their consent at any time. Thus rape is possible. But with marriage being what it is, unless it was established at the beginning, there is not a need for the "enthusiastic consent" that seems to be the buzz word of late. This does not, BTW, dismiss coercion due to explicit or implied threat in order to get consent. A simple "no" or "not tonight" is sufficient to indicate the withdrawal of consent.

What do you think?


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

Back when I was still married to my ex a couple "enthusiastic consent" stories were in the news. At the time it had been years since I had verbally sought consent. One night I did ask something like, "can I take your pants off?" or something like that. Her response was, "What makes you think that I would just _let_ you do something I didn't want you to do. Now get over here and F me."

Honestly, by the time you're married, you should have a pretty good feel when the implied consent has been withdrawn. Slamming cabinets? Not talking about your day? Complaining about the level of support they got for housework or something? You probably don't have implied consent that day.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Always a good topic. Shifting sands and all that.
I'd say there is implied likeliness of steady consent.....which that statement is chock full of slippery words, granted.

The part two is no means no, and who wants to have sex with an SO who doesn't want to have sex anyway.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Hiner112 said:


> Back when I was still married to my ex a couple "enthusiastic consent" stories were in the news. At the time it had been years since I had verbally sought consent. One night I did ask something like, "can I take your pants off?" or something like that. Her response was, "What makes you think that I would just _let_ you do something I didn't want you to do. Now get over here and F me."
> 
> Honestly, by the time you're married, you should have a pretty good feel when the implied consent has been withdrawn. Slamming cabinets? Not talking about your day? Complaining about the level of support they got for housework or something? You probably don't have implied consent that day.


That sums it up pretty accurately for W and I, ie do you think I'd let you if I didn't want you to...etc.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I would say, marriage doesn't come with an implied consent any more. And rightly so. Because we are talking theoretically here. So, theoretically, IMO, the consent should always be expressed, although an expressed consent in marriage is often not necessary.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

It's a slippery slope. There are at least three prominent aspects to marriage: Moral, religious, and legal. "Till death do you part" is covered by moral (commitment to spouse) and by religious (commitment to God.) Even if there is consent to sex at marriage, as you said, that consent can be withdrawn. What happens if it is? Morally, it's a personal choice. Did your spouse do a "bait and switch" on you? Did one of you cheat? If you decide it's immoral for your spouse to withhold sex, you can hit the road. Religious? Most religions acknowledge divorce. There's a way out. Legally? Not a problem. The door is open.

Most often I see people struggle with the moral and religious aspects of loss of consent. If your spouse is not going to have sex with you, you have to decide how long you're willing to accept that condition. If your morals or your religion force you to live a celibate life because your spouse doesn't want to have sex with you, have at it. Many of us believe that a spouse's withdrawal of consent is immoral and a breach of the marriage vows.

If you don't like the way your spouse cooks, you can go to a restaurant. If you don't like the way your spouse fixes the car, you can take it to a repair shop. If you don't like the color your spouse paints the bedroom, you can paint it yourself. If your spouse refuses to have sex with you, what are your options? There is no one else in the world who can meet your needs if you believe in monogamous marriage with sex.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

I would say many marriages have implied consent but that won't look the same for everyone. 

My wife has a long history of sexual trauma so I often ask before doing things that other spouses may see no reason to ask consent. I've also known her long enough to know when her "yes" means "no", and when her "no" means "yes".

She doesn't need to ask consent for anything though, and I can't recall her ever asking. If she's in the mood, just go for it! That wouldn't work the other way around though. I'd either get smacked or she'd go along with it but would hate every second of it. 

It also doesn't mean a spouse shouldn't ever be charged with spousal rape. Someone can definitely rape their spouse, even if there is usually implied consent, so I don't agree with that part (not that it was your opinion).

There was a post somewhere recently (Reddit, maybe) that said a woman raped a guy because he didn't give "enthusiastic consent". He basically said he'd be up for sex but didn't care either way, and apparently that wasn't enough


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> I would say, marriage doesn't come with an implied consent any more. And rightly so. Because we are talking theoretically here. So, theoretically, IMO, the consent should always be expressed, although an expressed consent in marriage is often not necessary.


Who's to say who's M has passed the fluid line of "any more"?

As in it used to? Who decided things have changed if that was a persons understanding in previous days? Implied doesn't mean guaranteed btw.


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## Zedd (Jul 27, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> I would say, marriage doesn't come with an implied consent any more. And rightly so. Because we are talking theoretically here. So, theoretically, IMO, the consent should always be expressed, although an expressed consent in marriage is often not necessary.


Agreed, again, as you say, theoretically, where implied consent comes in, is say after a night out on the town and you come home a little tipsy. No will always mean no, but the absence of yes, is far different when you're married than when you're single/with someone you've just met/started dating.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

I would say in general marriage implies consent, but the unseen dynamics unique to every marriage mean that may not be universally true. And of course that implied consent doesn't change the fact that no means no. If one spouse doesn't want sex they aren't obligated. For the record I have never said no, nor do I ever expect to say no, lol. If my wife is down, so am I. 

I never ask my wife for sex, I initiate sex, which is common advice given to those trying to have a more robust sex life. In our marriage sex is always on the table, but it is also obvious when my wife isn't likely to be really interested. I need her to be all in, so no point in initiating if I sense she isn't all in. I am not 100% perfect at reading her, in both directions. She rarely will give me a straight up no, but more of a lack of interest that I can feel and I'll call it off. Other times I think no way are we having sex and she will do something that makes it obvious she has other plans. 

Except for instances where past trauma comes into play, like @bobert mentioned, I think a marriage is on shaky sexual ground if a spouse has to ask for explicit permission to engage in sexual contact. Marriage in my eyes is a sexual relationship at its core and if you have to ask to engage in a foundational element of your marriage I think there is a problem. 

I actually use it as a tool to turn her on or create some tension. Basically asking her if I can do something, knowing the answer will be yes, but creating a delay in the act that makes her crave it even more. In those cases I'm not just looking for a yes, I'm looking for a, "hell yes and do it right now!" lol.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Who's to say who's M has passed the fluid line of "any more"?


I was talking as a general trend. I get the impression that these days women are much more aware of their rights in a marriage, so the implied consent is a lot less implied...  Of course, I can only talk about what I see, what I have experienced personally and what I read.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Not so sure there is implied consent to anything (especially sex).


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ccpowerslave said:


> Not so sure there is implied consent to anything (especially sex).


I guess we should first define the meaning of "implicit"...


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

Using the word “consent” in a marriage context just cheapens marriage. There are many principles and concepts that can rule marriage but consent is just a leftist buzzword used to reframe marriage into something legalistic and tawdry.

IMO.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

Marriage does not give a spouse right to force sex any more than unmarried couple. Rap is rape, be it married or not.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

In a marriage sex is "it" consent is implied and part of the deal. Having said that, the female or male can and do withdraw consent for various reasons, whether legit or not. Is up to us after analyzing the situation if it continues or it becomes permanent to stay or go.

With my first wife, she withdrew consent, after 3 months of the same I dumped her. She had the right to say "no", I had the right to dump her. It's very simple, you just get out of the relationship.

What I can't understand is those that paralyze in fear, self doubt, and plainly just cower-up and stay in a pathetic role of a supplicant and not getting any for years or decades. Those are cowards with little pride and self respect.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I’d say that if you have a healthy marriage, sex is something spouses look forward to but that doesn’t mean sex is on tap at any time. Sometimes people are not feeling well or whatever, so sex is something that shouldn’t be expected at all times. That said, if you’re not in the mood at all times, compromising benefits you both - meaning satisfying your partner should bring you happiness in and of itself. 

In unhealthy relationships, there are spouses who withhold sex and spouses who demand and expect it whenever they wish, and either scenario can be a reason to probably get out of the relationship.

Sex shouldn’t be something that feels forced, though.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

I wonder how many rape cases are prosecuted each year between married couples? I imagine most prosecutors would pound their head against their desk if they got stuck with that case... Impossible to prove and the whole implied consent as OP said that goes with marriage would make it near impossible to convict. I think there would have to be signs of actual physical abuse for it to be taken seriously.


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## CallingDrLove (9 mo ago)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I wonder how many rape cases are prosecuted each year between married couples? I imagine most prosecutors would pound their head against their desk if they got stuck with that case... Impossible to prove and the whole implied consent as OP said that goes with marriage would make it near impossible to convict. I think there would have to be signs of actual physical abuse for it to be taken seriously.


My wife is a prosecutor and I can confirm that would be her reaction.


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## CallingDrLove (9 mo ago)

I don’t think there is a Carte Blanche consent from wedding to the grave but it’s a little more subtle than the consent the media talks about. My wife is a prosecutor and she says she’s had conversations about this with some male attorneys. One of the public defenders made some comment about having sex with his wife while she was asleep (I’m pretty sure these conversations come out in the context of them discussing cases) and he told her “all men do it including your husband”. Well I don’t and I also have no desire to do it because sex just isn’t fun if your partner isn’t awake and enthusiastic. So I guess there are some men who think marriage implies that level of consent. Maybe it’s good and maybe it’s bad but we’ve just kind of fallen into a routine where we pretty much know if we will be having sex on any given night. I’m not sure either or both initiate. I rarely get turned down because I rarely have to ask.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

There was a reply in a post the other day that said "men should not expect sex in a marriage as sex is not owed" or something similar.

Between that statement, the idea of consent and the changeability of the topic, no wonder there are sexless marriages and the divorce rate is high. 

These topics make a good case for being single and NOT cohabitating with anyone I suppose?


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## James Correll (7 mo ago)

maquiscat said:


> In a discussion on another forum, someone brought up that marriage has an implied consent to sex, and this is why a husband shouldn't be charged with rape of his wife.
> 
> So the question is, does marriage have that implied consent?
> 
> ...


Well I would say when two people are married things between them such as preferences likes dislikes social thoughts and alot tend to come under discussion so shall be this topic for them to later not face problems... Now coming to unideal situations apart from alot of responsibilities that are put upon both genders after marriage they're also a source of pleasure for eachother... Marriage has always had implied consent to sex and other fantasies both genders would love to enjoy with eachother but the statement let alone is pretty narrow.... When talking about whether it should be charged or not we need to move to a more deeper meaning... Ultimate pleasure comes when both the parties consent starting off with arousal later moving on for sex rather than approaching one another like animals.... If the wife is having periods or a bad day or a tiring day simply doesn't feel like and refuses her wish should be valued and taken under consideration if not the onset is on men ..... But if the wife makes it a routine to refuse doesn't consent to sex despite calmly engaging with her trying to get her turned on and doing stuff within your capacity it creates frustration with in marriage and everyone has fantasies and desires and a great partner would help them fulfil and enojy but even in that case its not allowed to force your wife to any extent rather leave her and find another one... In most cases what we call forced is men trying to get their wives experience it thinking they might be scared and if it goes well she wont refuse again... but in other cases it might be the husband rather than acting mature would prefer to force it upon her wife which is highly condemable and should be charged after throw investigation....


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

CallingDrLove said:


> One of the public defenders made some comment about having sex with his wife while she was asleep (I’m pretty sure these conversations come out in the context of them discussing cases) and he told her “all men do it including your husband”. Well I don’t and I also have no desire to do it because sex just isn’t fun if your partner isn’t awake and enthusiastic.


This sort of thing has never made sense to me. No one would sleep through sex unless they were intoxicated to all hell.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

bobert said:


> This sort of thing has never made sense to me. No one would sleep through sex unless they were intoxicated to all hell.


I guess some wives would lie there pretending to be asleep waiting for the little pig to finish his deed...


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## James Correll (7 mo ago)

bobert said:


> This sort of thing has never made sense to me. No one would sleep through sex unless they were intoxicated to all hell.


Well said !!! But some wives do intoxicate themselves enough through sleeping pills to when they know their husband wont consider their consent


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

There is NO implied consent. Consent has to be freely given each time. Marital rape is as much of a CRIME as stranger rape or date rape. 

In a healthy marriage the parties should want to be intimate as an expression of their love for each other but if one person says no, for whatever, reason that has to be respected.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

maquiscat said:


> In a discussion on another forum, someone brought up that marriage has an implied consent to sex, and this is why a husband shouldn't be charged with rape of his wife.
> 
> So the question is, does marriage have that implied consent?
> 
> ...


I'd say I'm in agreement. If two people are getting married, yes, it is implied consent for sex. I know there are unusual circumstances that people will sometimes marry..... but I don't think there needs to be a ton of thought here. It is expected that if both people are looking to marry the other, then they are wanting and willing to have sex with each other. 


Rape is NEVER ok. Ever. Yes, I do believe some husbands will rape their wives when consent has been pulled. Not ok. That is horrible. 


Enthusiastic consent? ugh. Glad I haven't seen this buzzword yet. What constitutes enthusiastic? How do they define that?


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## James Correll (7 mo ago)

D0nnivain said:


> There is NO implied consent. Consent has to be freely given each time. Marital rape is as much of a CRIME as stranger rape or date rape.
> 
> In a healthy marriage the parties should want to be intimate as an expression of their love for each other but if one person says no, for whatever, reason that has to be respected.


If that's not happening one should step aside from such marriage


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## James Correll (7 mo ago)

LATERILUS79 said:


> I'd say I'm in agreement. If two people are getting married, yes, it is implied consent for sex. I know there are unusual circumstances that people will sometimes marry..... but I don't think there needs to be a ton of thought here. It is expected that if both people are looking to marry the other, then they are wanting and willing to have sex with each other.
> 
> 
> Rape is NEVER ok. Ever. Yes, I do believe some husbands will rape their wives when consent has been pulled. Not ok. That is horrible.
> ...


They obviously should be willing to enjoy and build a healthy RS


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## Kaliber (Apr 10, 2020)

D0nnivain said:


> There is NO implied consent. Consent has to be freely given each time.


Very interesting, so what does the marriage vows really mean?
If there is no *implied* consent in marriages and husbands have to always ask their wives if it's ok to touch them and have sex, does that mean "NO means NO" is not enough anymore, and "YES means YES" should be added to the deal?
And does that mean the husbands can withdraw consent on access to his *attention, commitment and resources* (ex. health insurance, mortgage, bells, retirement ..etc), and it's in his right to suspend such resource whenever he wants?


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

A person has the right to chose what they do with their bodies and being married does not give an automatic right to the use of that body.
That being said if one person in the marriage does not want to have sex with the other then why even stay married?
This delves into the use of sex as a weapon or position of power by both husbands and wives. And it is another prime example of why marriage is not a good idea for anyone.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

D0nnivain said:


> There is NO implied consent. Consent has to be freely given each time. Marital rape is as much of a CRIME as stranger rape or date rape.
> 
> In a healthy marriage the parties should want to be intimate as an expression of their love for each other but if one person says no, for whatever, reason that has to be respected.


I guess this comes down to how you define implied consent. It doesn't mean free use with no ability to refuse. 

To me it just means I don't have to say, "is it okay for me to touch your here", or "is it okay for me to penetrate you". Those seem like wasted words and, if needed, are indicative of a not so healthy sexual relationship with a person you sleep in the same bed with every night. 

In all cases implied consent doesn't mean you can't take away consent at any point. No and stop don't changed definitions under implied consent.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

Of course you don't have to say those words or words like them in a marriage. H & W aren't strangers but if your partner turns their head or says "Not tonight honey" that has to be respected. You can't just throw them down on the bed & have your way with them.


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## Kaliber (Apr 10, 2020)

D0nnivain said:


> Of course you don't have to say those words or words like them in a marriage. H & W aren't strangers but if your partner turns their head or says "Not tonight honey" that has to be respected. You can't just throw them down on the bed & have your way with them.


What you said now mean that there is an *implied consent* , and it can be withdrawing anytime (ex. "Not tonight honey", "Not in the mood" .. Etc) which every one agrees on, but this totally *contradict* your earlier reply:


D0nnivain said:


> There is NO implied consent. Consent has to be freely *given each time*.


So which is it, *implied consent* or *Consent given each time?*


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

In the cases I have know of spousal rape, it’s almost always being domestic violence situations. It’s not just sex that is happening without consent, it‘s a whole lot of other things that are happening Without consent, including violence, financial abuse, and emotional abuse. 

Side note: It would be a deal breaker if I found out my partner was having sex with me while I was unconscious/asleep.


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## CallingDrLove (9 mo ago)

By the way my wife’s response to the public defender was “why are you telling me this, you realize I’m the prosecutor, right?”


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

Yeah, that was dumb of the PD.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> There was a reply in a post the other day that said *"men should not expect sex in a marriage as sex is not owed"* or something similar.
> 
> Between that statement, the idea of consent and the changeability of the topic, no wonder there are sexless marriages and the divorce rate is high.
> 
> These topics make a good case for being single and NOT cohabitating with anyone I suppose?


Then I would say, their female partners should not expect monogamy, as that isn't owed in marriage either.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> Then I would say, their female partners should not expect monogamy, as that isn't owed in marriage either.


More importantly I would say, their female partners should not expect his money.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

Consent doesn't have to be verbal. Non-verbal acquiescence counts as does willing & enthusiastic participation. But a hard no has to be respected.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Numb26 said:


> More importantly I would say, their female partners should not expect his money.


Yeah, that might actually be more important to sex-refusing shrews!!! Lol!!!


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

LisaDiane said:


> Then I would say, their female partners should not expect monogamy, as that isn't owed in marriage either.


I don't know what kind of vows anybody else took, but traditional wedding vows include the phrase 

"forsaking all others."​
So yeah monogamy is part of the promises & is a valid expected component of marriage.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> Yeah, that might actually be more important to sex-refusing shrews!!! Lol!!!


Usually is


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

D0nnivain said:


> I don't know what kind of vows anybody else took, but traditional wedding vows include the phrase
> 
> "forsaking all others."​
> So yeah monogamy is part of the promises & is a valid expected component of marriage.


So is sex. You are forsaking sex with all others to only have with your spouse, that's what that vow means.
Also many couples write their own vows and don't even put that in there.

My point is, if sex isn't a standard part of a marriage, then it's only LEGAL, and shouldn't include monogamy either then.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Sfort said:


> It's a slippery slope. There are at least three prominent aspects to marriage: Moral, religious, and legal. "Till death do you part" is covered by moral (commitment to spouse) and by religious (commitment to God.) Even if there is consent to sex at marriage, as you said, that consent can be withdrawn. What happens if it is? Morally, it's a personal choice. Did your spouse do a "bait and switch" on you? Did one of you cheat? If you decide it's immoral for your spouse to withhold sex, you can hit the road. Religious? Most religions acknowledge divorce. There's a way out. Legally? Not a problem. The door is open.
> 
> Most often I see people struggle with the moral and religious aspects of loss of consent. If your spouse is not going to have sex with you, you have to decide how long you're willing to accept that condition. If your morals or your religion force you to live a celibate life because your spouse doesn't want to have sex with you, have at it. Many of us believe that a spouse's withdrawal of consent is immoral and a breach of the marriage vows.
> 
> If you don't like the way your spouse cooks, you can go to a restaurant. If you don't like the way your spouse fixes the car, you can take it to a repair shop. If you don't like the color your spouse paints the bedroom, you can paint it yourself. If your spouse refuses to have sex with you, what are your options? There is no one else in the world who can meet your needs if you believe in monogamous marriage with sex.


Many people think adultry is only reason. It is the most common one, Bible lists Sexual immorality which includes other things besides adultry, as Biblical grounds for divorce. I believe withholding physical intimacy from your spouse as sexually immoral behavior and grounds for divorce. 

Crying coercion is BS though. Spouse calling no go on marriage and other spouse deciding to bump up the sex to save the marriage is labeled as coercion. Having sex with someone because you do not want them to be mad at you is a choice made of one's own accord.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

CallingDrLove said:


> I don’t think there is a Carte Blanche consent from wedding to the grave but it’s a little more subtle than the consent the media talks about. My wife is a prosecutor and she says she’s had conversations about this with some male attorneys. One of the public defenders made some comment about having sex with his wife while she was asleep (I’m pretty sure these conversations come out in the context of them discussing cases) and he told her “all men do it including your husband”. Well I don’t and I also have no desire to do it because sex just isn’t fun if your partner isn’t awake and enthusiastic. So I guess there are some men who think marriage implies that level of consent. Maybe it’s good and maybe it’s bad but we’ve just kind of fallen into a routine where we pretty much know if we will be having sex on any given night. I’m not sure either or both initiate. I rarely get turned down because I rarely have to ask.


I don't see how one could not wake up. Couple weeks back I was asleep and in bed. Wife had her hand on my chest and reached down and grabbed my semi-erect penis firmly with her left hand. She was handsy with me. I was thinking she was going to start initiating and she started snoring lightly. She was doing it in her sleep.


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## CallingDrLove (9 mo ago)

Divinely Favored said:


> I don't see how one could not wake up. Couple weeks back I was asleep and in bed. Wife had her hand on my chest and reached down and grabbed my semi-erect penis firmly with her left hand. She was handsy with me. I was thinking she was going to start initiating and she started snoring lightly. She was doing it in her sleep.


In situations like that I pretend to be asleep until she’s on top then I “wake up” and feign confusion.

It’s funny how I could never interrupt her sleep for sex but she knows I’ll be game if she’s horny in the middle of the night.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

D0nnivain said:


> There is NO implied consent. Consent has to be freely given each time. Marital rape is as much of a CRIME as stranger rape or date rape.
> 
> In a healthy marriage the parties should want to be intimate as an expression of their love for each other but if one person says no, for whatever, reason that has to be respected.


I'm pretty sure, no I'm sure, no one posting here is even remotely saying sex is ok when a partner says no.

No need to hype that nonsense.


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

There have been questions about marital rape. I've read a couple statistics that say that between 1/10 and 1/7 of wives are raped by their husbands. If the relationship is abusive it goes up to coin flip territory. In general it doesn't get reported very often and prosecuted even less.

Psychology Today source

By implied consent, I meant that I wouldn't have to ask every time we were going to be intimate if it was OK with her. She obviously had no trouble expressing when she wasn't in the mood and exercised the right of refusal quite a lot there at the end. My proposition and her refusal were almost always non-verbal. A hand pushed away. A hug not returned.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Marriage in my eyes is a sexual relationship at its core





BigDaddyNY said:


> If one spouse doesn't want sex *they aren't obligated.*





BigDaddyNY said:


> *I never ask my wife for sex, *I initiate sex,


These pretty much summarize my opinions. Having said that, I am not sure where"implied" consent is a factor. Why would a man want to force the issue?

When I initiate ( I have *NEVER* asked ) and the wife doesn't enthusiastically respond, she will tell me why. Like maybe what she ate for lunch is making her uncomfortable. As we age, aches and pains sometimes intervene.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

D0nnivain said:


> I don't know what kind of vows anybody else took, but traditional wedding vows include the phrase
> 
> "forsaking all others."​
> So yeah monogamy is part of the promises & is a valid expected component of marriage.


I think sex is expected and a valid component of a marriage. I can't think why anyone would ever marry if that wasn't part of the relationship or atleast expected. Then you are just roommates and I don't even think monogamy is necessary at that point whatever the vows or any document says.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I think sex is expected and a valid component of a marriage. I can't think why anyone would ever marry if that wasn't part of the relationship or atleast expected. Then you are just roommates and I don't even think monogamy is necessary at that point whatever the vows or any document says.


Right. Very few people would agree to monogamy if it really meant periodic (or continual) celibacy. 
Monogamy implies that the couple will be meeting eachother's sexual needs.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

LisaDiane said:


> My point is, if sex isn't a standard part of a marriage, then it's only LEGAL, and shouldn't include monogamy either then.


Sex is part of marriage. If somebody is withholding sex the other person should get a divorce not cheat or otherwise seek to open the marriage. 



Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I'm pretty sure, no I'm sure, no one posting here is even remotely saying sex is ok when a partner says no.
> 
> No need to hype that nonsense.


I'm not hyping anything. The OP's question involved somebody's right to say no.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

D0nnivain said:


> Sex is part of marriage. If somebody is withholding sex the other person should get a divorce not cheat or otherwise seek to open the marriage.


Mostly I agree with you, although my opinion is that opening the marriage is fine if it's consensual, just like sexlessness is also perfectly fine if it's consensual between them.

Neither of those would work for ME, but if it does for others, great.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Mrs. Conan has an obligation and her own requirements of me.

Sex is a mandate.😉


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

D0nnivain said:


> Sex is part of marriage. If somebody is withholding sex the other person should get a divorce not cheat or otherwise seek to open the marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not hyping anything. The OP's question involved somebody's right to say no.


Yeah, I think the way the original question and the preceding statement is causes us to mingle two different things. 

_"In a discussion on another forum, someone brought up that marriage has an implied consent to sex, and this is why a husband shouldn't be charged with rape of his wife.

So the question is, does marriage have that implied consent? "_

I think you can have implied consent and still have a husband charged with rape. As I think everyone has said in one way or another, marriage is a sexual relationship, so of course sexual consent is implied on some level, but that consent can be withdrawn at any time. Once withdrawn it is all stop. If the other spouse continues they are raping the other person, plain and simple.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Yeah, I think the way the original question and the preceding statement is causes us to mingle two different things.
> 
> _"In a discussion on another forum, someone brought up that marriage has an implied consent to sex, and this is why a husband shouldn't be charged with rape of his wife.
> 
> ...


So if your wife straddles you in the middle of the night while you are asleep and you wake up to her riding you, is that rape? No consent was given, not even tacitly. It could only be implied.


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## CallingDrLove (9 mo ago)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> So if your wife straddles you in the middle of the night while you are asleep and you wake up to her riding you, is that rape? No consent was given, not even tacitly. It could only be implied.


I wouldn’t press charges.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> So if your wife straddles you in the middle of the night while you are asleep and you wake up to her riding you, is that rape? No consent was given, not even tacitly. It could only be implied.


No it isn't because consent is implied and stands until withdrawn, at least in my marriage. Now if I woke up and said stop it and she didn't that would be rape. 

True story. On a rare occasion my wife can't sleep. I've been woken up at 2am by her fondling my penis. My eyes were barely open by the time we were having sex. When we were done she snuggled up to me and fell asleep. Consent was implied and I did not withdraw it once I woke up. The next morning I told her to feel free to wake me up like that any time she pleases


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

BigDaddyNY said:


> No it isn't because consent is implied and stands until withdrawn, at least in my marriage. Now if I woke up and said stop it and she didn't that would be rape.
> 
> True story. On a rare occasion my wife can't sleep. I've been woken up at 2am by her fondling my penis. My eyes were barely open by the time we were having sex. When we were done she snuggled up to me and fell asleep. Consent was implied and I did not withdraw it once I woke up. The next morning I told her to feel free to wake me up like that any time she pleases


So then reverse roles, man starts having sex with wife while asleep. Is it still implied? Assume they never had any such discussion prior about sleep sex. 

I'm just curious if it's a double standard in spousal rape.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Sex shouldn’t be “implied” in marriage. Expected, of course, but nothing should be implied in a sexual relationship.


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## CallingDrLove (9 mo ago)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> So then reverse roles, man starts having sex with wife while asleep. Is it still implied? Assume they never had any such discussion prior about sleep sex.
> 
> I'm just curious if it's a double standard in spousal rape.


Probably has a lot to do with how the other spouse responds the first time you try it. If I start feeling up my wife in the middle of the night and she yells stop it then precedent has been set and I know going forward. Likewise if I participate enthusiastically when she does the same then precedent has been set. I think it’s less a double standard and more that a precedent was probably set early on.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> So then reverse roles, man starts having sex with wife while asleep. Is it still implied? Assume they never had any such discussion prior about sleep sex.
> 
> I'm just curious if it's a double standard in spousal rape.


All is good until she say stop. They are a married couple and consent is implied. I've woken my wife up in the morning by initiating sex while she was still pretty much asleep.


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> So then reverse roles, man starts having sex with wife while asleep. Is it still implied? Assume they never had any such discussion prior about sleep sex.
> 
> I'm just curious if it's a double standard in spousal rape.


From my perspective: Did I wake up and enjoy it. Then, no, not rape. 
Was it done while I was too intoxicated or on heavy medication to have an opinion? Then technically yeah. 

I doubt that I would press charges, but that person would never have access to my body again. I didn't marry a man that would do that, and if I ever get married again, I would have to be able to believe that when I am at my most vulnerable he would be protecting me, not taking advantage of my helplessness (unless of course that was negotiated. And that's a whole different thing.)


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> So then reverse roles, man starts having sex with wife while asleep. Is it still implied? Assume they never had any such discussion prior about sleep sex.
> 
> I'm just curious if it's a double standard in spousal rape.


Yes double standard


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

who knows? My wife once started in the middle of the night. In her first trimester, she was actually horny. That was 22 years ago. Since then, she's initiated once. implied consent? Dusty consent? I don't know.


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

Also, unless you're marrying a stranger, you should know what your wife is down for or not. But here's a suggestion: If you're not sure, don't do it until you talked about it.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

maquiscat said:


> In a discussion on another forum, someone brought up that marriage has an implied consent to sex, and this is why a husband shouldn't be charged with rape of his wife.
> 
> So the question is, does marriage have that implied consent?
> 
> ...


I agree consent can be given and withdrawn. I don't think marriage is a guarantee of it but it is certainly something you ought to find out before you marry someone. And then any reasonable adults should understand that crap happens and consent can go away on either side at any time for any reason. You don't own your spouse's body ever.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> All is good until she say stop. They are a married couple and consent is implied. I've woken my wife up in the morning by initiating sex while she was still pretty much asleep.


I should clarify that neither of us have had sex with the other while actually asleep. Honestly I don't know how you could stay asleep during full on sex unless you are seriously intoxicated. We've both initiated sex while the other is asleep. I not sure why anyone would want to have sex with someone that is asleep, but maybe that's because I'm not a scum rapist.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> *So then reverse roles, man starts having sex with wife while asleep. *Is it still implied? Assume they never had any such discussion prior about sleep sex.
> 
> I'm just curious if it's a double standard in spousal rape.


Let me tell you, for our marriage, if my wife is asleep, waking her for any reason unless the house is on fire or we received an emergency phone call is not good. She doesn't get angry, but wouldn't appreciate it. At our age, sleep is difficult enough without having the spouse waking us when we are asleep. There is no damn way I would wake her for sex (or anything else) while she is sleeping.

Beyond that, I can't even feature starting to have sex with a sleeping person. At least for this old goat it seems highly disrespectful. And personally, I want her actively interested and fully engaged, not waking confused. So consent has nothing to do with it, it is a hard NO for me.

When her hormones were through the roof a few years ago, she told me once anytime I wanted, she was available, to wake her anytime. I put it back on her that she needed to wake *me* whenever she was in the mood. That worked fine. 

Since she had DCIS and stopped HRT, she has calmed down somewhat so she hasn't woke me for it in awhile. When we both wake up in the morning that starts our day.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

In Absentia said:


> I would say, marriage doesn't come with an implied consent any more. And rightly so. Because we are talking theoretically here. So, theoretically, IMO, the consent should always be expressed, although an expressed consent in marriage is often not necessary.


So if a husband wakes up to his wife giving him oral where she was thinking that would be a fun thing to do, technically she has committed a felony? Sincere question.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

Theoretically yes. If the husband felt violated because he did not want sex at that moment, a wife an be equally guilty of a marital rape. It's much less common but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. 

If you are having a healthy sexual relationship with your spouse carry on. If you feel abused / manipulated or otherwise violated that is a problem. Nobody should be forced to have sex against their will, man or woman.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Harken Banks said:


> So if a husband wakes up to his wife giving him oral where she was thinking that would be a fun thing to do, technically she has committed a felony? Sincere question.


She is guilty of fellatio. No felony.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Harken Banks said:


> So if a husband wakes up to his wife giving him oral where she was thinking that would be a fun thing to do, technically she has committed a felony? Sincere question.


Technically, yes. It's really no different than if you are sleeping in a hotel and wakeup to someone from housekeeping fondling your junk. It may be harder (and it's already hard enough to get someone behind bars for SA), but it can still be sexual assault. 

Personally, I would have absolutely no problem with it whatsoever. If I'm asleep and my wife wants to do it, go for it. I'd love it. That is something we have discussed countless times though. If it hasn't been discussed or was a long time ago but was never acted on, a conversation is a good idea. 

Same goes for being heavily intoxicated and any other condition where one cannot give consent.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Harken Banks said:


> So if a husband wakes up to his wife giving him oral where she was thinking that would be a fun thing to do, technically she has committed a felony? Sincere question.


In our world that is lacking common sense more and more that is technically sexual assault. Especially if you contend that marriage does not include implied consent. If we want to get really crazy, kissing your wife or kids without asking them first could be considered sexual assault. 

Now if there is a man out there that will cry rape when woken by his wife going down on him we need to have a serious heart to heart talk, lol. 

At the end of the day it is all about knowing and respecting your partner. As for me, I regularly tell my wife she is free to use me at any time.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

D0nnivain said:


> Theoretically yes. If the husband felt violated because he did not want sex at that moment, a wife an be equally guilty of a marital rape. It's much less common but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
> 
> If you are having a healthy sexual relationship with your spouse carry on. If you feel abused / manipulated or otherwise violated that is a problem. Nobody should be forced to have sex against their will, man or woman.


This theory is never true though.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

romantic_dreamer said:


> Marriage does not give a spouse right to force sex any more than unmarried couple. Rap is rape, be it married or not.


I very clearly put in that either spouse has a right to withdraw consent at any time. Hence, it is right out there in the open that there is no condoning forced sex of any sort. The question at hand is looking at the difference between being married and not, and as to whether the initiator should be seeking consent each and every time after marriage, as they should prior to marriage, sans any prior agreement.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

maquiscat said:


> The question at hand is looking at the difference between being married and not, and as to whether the initiator should be seeking consent each and every time after marriage, as they should prior to marriage, sans any prior agreement.


Yes, some kind of consent is required but it doesn't have to be as quantified. When your partner leans in as you come near for the kiss or kisses you back that is enough of consent between married people & even long time couples. If the partner pulls away, puts up a hand to stop you, or says no, then it's a non-starter & continuing after that could be marital rape depending on how far things go.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

bobert said:


> This sort of thing has never made sense to me. No one would sleep through sex unless they were intoxicated to all hell.


I think that the implication is that it is initiated while they are asleep. My one wife and I have both initiated sex while the other is asleep. I doubt that either of us has completely slept though it all, but I can say that at least once, I was pretty much hovering on the edge after I woke up to her actions (with no true conscious idea of how long she had been doing it), and once she was done fell right back to sleep. I know she has fallen right back to sleep after I've finished up when I started with her asleep. I'm pretty sure it's like getting up to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night. You're awake and aware, but because you are hovering on the edge, you don't store the event in long term.


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## CallingDrLove (9 mo ago)

romantic_dreamer said:


> Rap is rape


To my ears.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

maquiscat said:


> I think that the implication is that it is initiated while they are asleep. My one wife and I have both initiated sex while the other is asleep. I doubt that either of us has completely slept though it all, but I can say that at least once, I was pretty much hovering on the edge after I woke up to her actions (with no true conscious idea of how long she had been doing it), and once she was done fell right back to sleep. I know she has fallen right back to sleep after I've finished up when I started with her asleep. I'm pretty sure it's like getting up to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night. You're awake and aware, but because you are hovering on the edge, you don't store the event in long term.


That's how I usually interpret it as well, because the alternative just doesn't make sense. However Dr.Whatever said the public defender said “all men do it including your husband”, which to me sounds like he was saying "all men do it (including your husband), you just don't know it.


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## CallingDrLove (9 mo ago)

bobert said:


> That's how I usually interpret it as well, because the alternative just doesn't make sense. However Dr.Whatever said the public defender said “all men do it including your husband”, which to me sounds like he was saying "all men do it (including your husband), you just don't know it.


From the way she described the conversation he was definitely talking rape.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

D0nnivain said:


> There is NO implied consent. Consent has to be freely given each time. Marital rape is as much of a CRIME as stranger rape or date rape.
> 
> In a healthy marriage the parties should want to be intimate as an expression of their love for each other* but if one person says no*, for whatever, reason that has to be respected.


I already covered that. Explicitly stated as much. I don't think anyone here, at least to this point in the thread, has made any claim that being married means that you can keep going even when the other says no.

What is being asked is, by the fact of being married is "yes" considered automatic, i.e. implied, *EXCEPT *when "no" is said or indicated? This is under the assumption that the marriage was entered into freely. For a shotgun or arranged marriage, I'm willing to assume that the consent is not implied but forced.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Why does this thread have me feeling like .... "whereas the party of the first part wants to insert his penis into the vagina of the party of the second part, and whereas the party of the first part may want to do this in the middle of the night when the party of the second part is asleep, and whereas a marriage, by implication, is already a legal contract with duties expected from each party involved...." 

Sheesh


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Numb26 said:


> A person has the right to chose what they do with their bodies and being married does not give an automatic right to the use of that body.


I can see how it can be misconstrued, but this is not what is being asked. The question does not assume that one spouse has the right to the use of the other, but is asking if by agreeing to marriage, that also means agreeing to sex unless specifically saying no. IOW, if I consent to marry you (generalized not necessarily specifically you), am I also not consenting to have sex with you, with the understanding that I can withdraw that consent at any time?


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

D0nnivain said:


> *Of course you don't have to say those words or words like them in a marriage.* H & W aren't strangers but if your partner turns their head or says "Not tonight honey" that has to be respected. You can't just throw them down on the bed & have your way with them.


So then it does seem that you agree that there is implied consent within a marriage.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

D0nnivain said:


> Consent doesn't have to be verbal. Non-verbal acquiescence counts as does willing & enthusiastic participation. But a hard no has to be respected.


The question is asked because there is a faction out there that wants to promote the idea that Non-verbal acquiescence and willing & enthusiastic participation are not enough and that it is rape even if the woman (because they only make this point of men on women and never consider that men can be raped) claims it is not.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

D0nnivain said:


> *I don't know what kind of vows anybody else took,* but traditional wedding vows include the phrase


Thank you for acknowledging that not everyone takes the "traditional" vows nowadays.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

LisaDiane said:


> So is sex. You are forsaking sex with all others to only have with your spouse, that's what that vow means.
> Also many couples write their own vows and don't even put that in there.
> 
> My point is, if sex isn't a standard part of a marriage, then it's only LEGAL, and shouldn't include monogamy either then.


Sex is a standard, albeit not universal, part of a marriage on a social and maybe religious level. On a legal level, sex, love and children hold no bearing on the legal marriage.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

CallingDrLove said:


> In situations like that I pretend to be asleep until she’s on top then I “wake up” and feign confusion.
> 
> It’s funny how I could never interrupt her sleep for sex but she knows I’ll be game if she’s horny in the middle of the night.


You probably ought to ask her if that is something she would like. She might be wanting you to do it also.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

D0nnivain said:


> The OP's question involved somebody's right to say no.


No, it acknowledge and fully asserted a person's right to say no. The question is not whether they can say no, but whether they have to verbally and enthusiastically say yes each and every time, or is that yes implied unless they say otherwise?


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> Sex shouldn’t be “implied” in marriage. Expected, of course, but nothing should be implied in a sexual relationship.


Point of order. We're discussing consent to sex, not sex itself. I'd be very frustrated where the sex itself is implied and not explicit.


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## CallingDrLove (9 mo ago)

maquiscat said:


> You probably ought to ask her if that is something she would like. She might be wanting you to do it also.


oh, we’ve talked about it.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Sfort said:


> If you don't like the way your spouse cooks, you can go to a restaurant. If you don't like the way your spouse fixes the car, you can take it to a repair shop. If you don't like the color your spouse paints the bedroom, you can paint it yourself. *If your spouse refuses to have sex with you, what are your options?* There is no one else in the world who can meet your needs if you believe in monogamous marriage with sex.


Do I really have to say it? The oldest option in the world, one which many people both married and unmarried exercise on a regular basis.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> Yeah, that might actually be more important to sex-refusing shrews!!! Lol!!!


Which is one reason among many so many wives work and have their own money and divorce clueless husbands.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

maquiscat said:


> Point of order. We're discussing consent to sex, not sex itself. I'd be very frustrated where the sex itself is implied and not explicit.


Fair enough…


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Do I really have to say it? The oldest option in the world, one which many people both married and unmarried exercise on a regular basis.


Do I really have to say it? There are at least two primary components of sex: Physical and emotional. Masturbation only provides the physical component. It is a stop gap, not a substitute.


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

Sfort said:


> Do I really have to say it? There are at least two primary components of sex: Physical and emotional. Masturbation only provides the physical component. It is a stop gap, not a substitute.


Oldest option. I think she was talking about prostitutes.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

DownButNotOut said:


> Oldest option. I think she was talking about prostitutes.


Maybe, but if you read what I wrote, prostitutes are not an option.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

BlueWoman said:


> From my perspective: Did I wake up and enjoy it. Then, no, not rape.
> Was it done while I was too intoxicated or on heavy medication to have an opinion? Then technically yeah.
> 
> I doubt that I would press charges, but that person would never have access to my body again. I didn't marry a man that would do that, and if I ever get married again, I would have to be able to believe that when I am at my most vulnerable he would be protecting me, not taking advantage of my helplessness (unless of course that was negotiated. And that's a whole different thing.)


I think you have brought up a very important point. There is a major difference between whether or not rape has been committed, and if the victim decides to report it or otherwise act upon it. It was similar to a point in the thread that prompted this one in which I made the point that the fact of the crime being committed is separate from whether that fact could be proved in a court of law. I also made the point that if we make examples, we are stating what happened and can determine whether the specific crime occurred. With a specific real life case, we only have what facts are revealed, and don't always have enough to make that determination, especially when it's possible that one, the other or both parties are lying.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Harken Banks said:


> So if a husband wakes up to his wife giving him oral where she was thinking that would be a fun thing to do, technically she has committed a felony? Sincere question.





D0nnivain said:


> *Theoretically yes.* If the husband felt violated because he did not want sex at that moment, a wife an be equally guilty of a marital rape. It's much less common but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
> 
> If you are having a healthy sexual relationship with your spouse carry on. If you feel abused / manipulated or otherwise violated that is a problem. Nobody should be forced to have sex against their will, man or woman.


As I just pointed out in my previous post, this fact of what the woman did, is independent from whether or not anyone would believe the man, bother to press the charges, or convict her in a court. Even if there were an actual rape of the man by the woman, right now there is too much belief out there that such an event is not possible.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

maquiscat said:


> ....."no" or "not tonight" is sufficient to indicate the withdrawal of consent.
> 
> What do you think?


I do believe that there can be rape within marriage.

I do believe there can be bait and switch to trap a partner within marriage.

A good marriage requires doing things for your partner that you may not wish to do, but occassionaly do for the good of your marriage because you like making your partner happy. 

Just as consent to sex may be withdrawn at any time, commitment to a marriage may be withdrawn and divorce may be initiated at any time.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Longtime Hubby said:


> She is guilty of fellatio. No felony.


Incorrect, or rather incorrect by many states and country laws, depending on where one lives. The definition of rape has changed over time, to reflect both the wide variety of things that can be done as well as taking into account that men can be raped by both men and woman, and that a woman can rape another woman. Rape is generally defined as any forced penetration of the mouth, anus or vagina by an object, natural or artificial. If he had been the aggressor, the forcing of his penis into her mouth would count as rape in many locations. so it stands to reason that her forcing his penis into her mouth would be the same. Same principle, as if she forced PIV onto him. While not many within the legal system will follow up and actually believe or peruse a man getting raped, especially by a woman, the actual law itself has at least been updated to account for such a crime.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

D0nnivain said:


> Yes, some kind of consent is required but it doesn't have to be as quantified. *When your partner leans in as you come near for the kiss or kisses you back that is enough of consent between married people & even long time couples.* If the partner pulls away, puts up a hand to stop you, or says no, then it's a non-starter & continuing after that could be marital rape depending on how far things go.


This is part of implied consent, because it is not being explicitly given. Or we can look at it as initiating without asking shows the implied consent, with any withdrawing from an initiating action as a show of consent withdrawn.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Why does this thread have me feeling like .... "whereas the party of the first part wants to insert his penis into the vagina of the party of the second part, and whereas the party of the first part may want to do this in the middle of the night when the party of the second part is asleep, and whereas a marriage, by implication, is already a legal contract with duties expected from each party involved...."
> 
> Sheesh


Yeah, I am not sure why this has evolved to a focus to initiating sex while the other is asleep. Granted it's a possible example, but it has somehow become the focus.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Young at Heart said:


> A good marriage requires doing things for your partner that you may not wish to do, but occassionaly do for the good of your marriage because you like making your partner happy.


This is consent. It's not enthusiastic consent, but I have never been a believer in that. To me that phrase means an high energy want to do what you are consenting to, but I would say that a willingness to do something for someone else's happiness is still consent. Which is what you just described.



> Just as consent to sex may be withdrawn at any time, commitment to a marriage may be withdrawn and divorce may be initiated at any time.


Granted. A refusal to have sex with one's spouse can have multiple results. But it wasn't the intent of this thread to explore the results of such refusal. We are exploring where consents exists and whether or not it needs to be expressed every time within a marriage.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

maquiscat said:


> Incorrect, or rather incorrect by many states and country laws, depending on where one lives. The definition of rape has changed over time, to reflect both the wide variety of things that can be done as well as taking into account that men can be raped by both men and woman, and that a woman can rape another woman. Rape is generally defined as any forced penetration of the mouth, anus or vagina by an object, natural or artificial. If he had been the aggressor, the forcing of his penis into her mouth would count as rape in many locations. so it stands to reason that her forcing his penis into her mouth would be the same. Same principle, as if she forced PIV onto him. While not many within the legal system will follow up and actually believe or peruse a man getting raped, especially by a woman, the actual law itself has at least been updated to account for such a crime.


that's wild. I'd be happy to the victim of that. Has happened once, long ago, with a former girlfriend. Heck of a wakeup, me in her mouth. Never forget that moment.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Longtime Hubby said:


> that's wild. I'd be happy to the victim of that. Has happened once, long ago, with a former girlfriend. Heck of a wakeup, me in her mouth. Never forget that moment.


Keep in mind that I was more addressing that such an act, if there was not consent, does meet the definition of rape as it is being looked at today. If there is either the implied consent we have been discussing, or previously expressed consent, then no the situation would not be rape.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Rob_1 said:


> What I can't understand is those that paralyze in fear, self doubt, and plainly just cower-up and stay in a pathetic role of a supplicant and not getting any for years or decades. Those are cowards with little pride and self respect.


I agree. And the solution to this is for the person who is regularly being denied sex to divorce.


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## Kaliber (Apr 10, 2020)

Rob_1 said:


> What I can't understand is those that paralyze in fear, self doubt, and plainly just cower-up and stay in a pathetic role of a supplicant and not getting any for years or decades. Those are cowards with little pride and self respect.


Checking dead bedroom sub reddit you will find some men searching for ways to kill their libido!!


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Kaliber said:


> Checking dead bedroom sub reddit you will find some men searching for ways to kill their libido!!


yes... it's usually people who are not prepared to be financially worse off and only seeing their little children 50% of the time. They'd rather be sexually starved.


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