# I need closure; My husband doesn't: Is this a Man thing?



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I'm so used to fighting against the Man (businesses and government entities) with all their tricks of the trade to get you to pay twice or hope they you give up on your refund and so on that I think ahead now when I'm faced with an issue.

the current issue: My flat in London is empty except when I visit it. So I am entitled to a sole occupier discount. The bourough has gotten online so this wa the first year that I RE-confirmed that declaration online.

Somehow they didn't receive it. Also interesting, the council started person accounts for everyone. I always use the same e-email for council tax payment. There is neither a confirmation e-mail for my efforts nor any remarks in my Borough Council online account that I did it. I wonder if that was intentional?

So I immediately went to a borough council office. The frontline staff member was very nice. I filled out a form; she gave me a stamped copy of it......... but I accept that she cannot confirm whether that declaration will be on my account by the time the nex payment is due. She was not optimistic about receving refunds from the council when it deemed later that you over paid.

Strangely enough, my husband thinks that I am detonating a neutron bomb by bringing in a 3rd party / "my" borough councillor into the issue. I need someone on the inside to be on my side.

This is just the latest example of his suggesting that I am paranoid and that the world against me.

My exH was like that as well.

I am imaginging that this stems from a few things:

1. Men are more conflict averse than women are. 

2. The idea of bringing a third party into a matter could be interpreted as a sign of weakness.

3. Well, perhaps you could me with this one.........


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

My husband leaves all paperwork to me. He does not like to deal with taxes or the city. The incompetence is too much for him. He says I have more patience and I know how to deal with them. It's all paper trail and more paper trail. I have folders and makes notes of names, dates and time. Copy copies of checks etc

My husband gets easily frustrated. It upsets him when people cant seemed to understand simple things. I already paid why are you still billing me. I have my system and it works. 

So, I do think its conflict avoidance and not wanting to admit defeat. Plus, they have us to figure it out, so why should they have to worry. My husband has it down pat, the look in his eyes, the simile and then, "Babe, can you take care of this for me?". I am a sucker.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

personality difference not a gender thing and, what does this have to do with closure? Anyway good luck tilting that windmill. What you are doing id the right way to approach it, eventually you will wear them down.


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## donalorow (Dec 14, 2015)

It upsets him when people cant seemed to understand simple things.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I never fight a bureaucracy just to make a point, only if it is in my own interest. A bureaucracy is not a person, it is just a mindless collection of people and rules. It doesn't "care", if you win or lose. Its like getting angry at a rock because it stubbed your toe.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> I never fight a bureaucracy just to make a point, only if it is in my own interest. A bureaucracy is not a person, it is just a mindless collection of people and rules. It doesn't "care", if you win or lose. Its like getting angry at a rock because it stubbed your toe.


I am not fighting bureaucracy to make a point.

there is a real danger that the sole occupier declaration will not be processed in the 8 or so business days left in December. The payment is due on 1st Jan. Once the declaration gets processed the agreed payment will be less than what it is now.

These days given how nasty large organisations can be -- consumer columns are always clogged with people due refunds that the large organisation just can't get around to processing.

Guess you're one of the lucky ones, like my husband. You always receive exemplary service from every entity you deal with.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

NextTimeAround said:


> I'm so used to fighting against the Man (businesses and government entities) with all their tricks of the trade to get you to pay twice or hope they you give up on your refund and so on that I think ahead now when I'm faced with an issue.
> 
> the current issue: My flat in London is empty except when I visit it. So I am entitled to a sole occupier discount. The bourough has gotten online so this wa the first year that I RE-confirmed that declaration online.
> 
> ...


I think today more men are risk averse than was the case in previous centuries, but I don't know if that's what's going on here. Probably he just doesn't think it's worth the hassle.

Is it worth it to you? Is this enough money that it matters? Is this an issue of principles for you? I don't know enough about the UK to really understand your situation. What is a sole occupier discount? Some sort of government rebate for living alone?

If it were me, I'd probably be all over fixing it. I'm in the US and just received a notice that I didn't pay $2 in property taxes from last year. I'm about to take my tax statement down and refuse to pay it.. It's not worth my time or the gas to find the statement, and the check stub and drive over to do it, but I like to think that if people push back, they won't pull this on less fortunate folks so I will anyways.

ETA: You posted while I was typing. If it's worth it financially, chase it down.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I sent the e-mail to the borough councillor today. Within an hour, she responded and said that she would investigate it.

I would rather that, than a lot of threatening letters from the collections agency for not paying the £30 extra in council tax. (It's more than that, but that's extra difference due to this "missing"sole occupier declaration.

I would rather spend my time telling people about the potential problem in advance than having to clean after the fact. ie, penalties charges; reputation tarnished......


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

If something is not done about this sole occupier declaration, that would mean that I owe £274 more than what a sole occupier is required to pay.

Now, council tax is assessed yearly. So if they assume that I am not a sole occupier for the 2015 to 2016 tax year, then what do you think that they will assume for the 2016 to 2017 tax year?

These days, I prefer to comeout all guns blazing so to speak. It save my time and it may remind them not to f^ck with me next time.

Saves time; saves money; saves agro; saves reputation.

What more do you want?


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I long ago decided that I was willing to give up 10% of my income to not stress about money - basically I arrange to live about that much below my means. The lack of stress from not worrying about this sort of thing is worth a lot to me. It does sort of drive my wife nuts at times though....







NextTimeAround said:


> I am not fighting bureaucracy to make a point.
> 
> there is a real danger that the sole occupier declaration will not be processed in the 8 or so business days left in December. The payment is due on 1st Jan. Once the declaration gets processed the agreed payment will be less than what it is now.
> 
> ...


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

First rule of third world driving: what is behind me is unimportant.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

My husband would carry the load if it was a big ticket item. His attitude was time versus money.

My attitude is it's the principle of the thing. Yes, I will track down and dispute a $10 charge and watch for it on my statement for 6 months to make sure they are billing correctly. I'm not stubborn.:wink2:


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## Lionelhutz (Feb 2, 2012)

I deal in conflict all day long and I have an upfront view of the costs of emotional costs of conflict, so in my personal life something has to be clearly worth the fight before I start down that path. I also know see that I am no different than anyone else and that if I allow myself to get caught up in the emotion of a pointless and eventually petty fight, I can exhaust myself in search of a hollow victory. 


My wife seems to enjoy the novelty of it of the "good fight" but also seems gets more of a charge out of "being right". I tend to feel that is an empty victory when dealing when mere stupidity and or all bureaucracy. I get no charge out of it so it must be worth something meaningful to me in real dollars when viewed as an hourly rate.

I don't know enough about your situation to say it is paranoia or not, but I would say that in general if you are receiving consistent feedback on that issue there is probably some truth to the charge,


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Blondilocks said:


> My husband would carry the load if it was a big ticket item. His attitude was time versus money.
> 
> My attitude is it's the principle of the thing. Yes, I will track down and dispute a $10 charge and watch for it on my statement for 6 months to make sure they are billing correctly. I'm not stubborn.:wink2:



Dealing with small companies and charities, yes I have let small charges of $10 or $20 go.

Banks that are constantly charging you $10 or $20 here and there and all the time. I will relentlessly pursue them. If you allow the charge once, it may be interpreted that you are alright with them.

My mother discovered that Bank of America was charging my sister $14 a month because she was NOT using her hardcopy checks related to the checking account. Go figure.

Is $14 every month into perpetuity worth it to you?

Last night I told my husband that I saw some earrings that I wanted for $1000 (online and to be sent to my mother in the US) BUT would also get discounted by %20 as per the coupon I was holding. He hemmed and hawed a bit, "well that will be it for Christmas" he said.

So I came back with "well, aren't you glad you have a wife who will fight for every £274 ($440 in US dollars, that's about half the cost of the earrings) that is owed to us.

Sometimes people don't really know what they want.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Let's also look at a hypothetical that is not impossible to bring to real life:

the Council (government entity) has out sourced to an agency to collect the taxes.

The agency then reports to the Council that it has collected taxes from 10 properties that are deemed as "sole occupiers"......

while the agency pockets the other £274 they got fraudulently off those properties. 

When elected officials are reminded to look into the practices of the agencies that they hire, there will be less of a chance of these kinds of things happening.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

NextTimeAround said:


> I am imaginging that this stems from a few things:
> 
> 1. Men are more conflict averse than women are.
> 
> ...


Some of this applies to me, and probably lots of men. The "why?" I suppose is what you're after.

Speaking for myself, and very much in general, I think many men believe in "economy of effort". This has been a catch-phrase of mine since I first heard it in Chariots of Fire. Describes me perfectly.
Probabilities figure into every action I take, weighed against outcomes. The goal must outweigh the BS involved to get there.

Conflict averse? Yes. Conflict nearly always ends in head butting, rather that headway.

Third party? Yeah, a bit sissy, but mostly I just don't trust anyone to do their job anymore.

Closure? I kinda hate the term. Things either turn out good, and you're happy; or bad and you're pissed. Those are the options, you're just going to have to live with it. No one can really help me in that area, and I don't want them to. So, the idea of helping someone else seems insincere.

On the topic at hand, though, I doesn't seem to me you've actually brought a 3rd party into the fray. I don't understand the whole London burough thing, but it seems you went to the only office that could logically address the matter. I think I'd have done the same.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Conflict averse?!?!?!

That's why more men than women are passive agressive.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

I am probably in the minority here, but I fight again abuse every time. Part of the problem that we have in the world today is that way to many people just roll over and take it. Government, corporations, businesses and people will abuse you as long as you allow them to. They just don't care. But standing up for yourself and not taking it is the only we can push back against the abuse. 
I hate it when I am not treated as a real live human being and get treated like a number. I used to live in a small town and banked at a small branch near our post office. It was so convenient. Everytime I went in I got teased by the tellers "Oh boy, here comes trouble!", "Act busy, here come Ynot!" "What do you want today?" I enjoyed feeling like I was visiting with friends.
So one day I went in and was greeted with "Thank you for visiting the XXX bank, how may I help you today?"
I asked her what that was all about. She said it was the official corporate greeting that they were required to say to every customer walking in the door. I told them that they were never to greet me like that again. I enjoy them calling me by name and making some reference to me as a person and I did not want to be treated as a number. The teller said she understood but she was just following the rules. So I suggested that she greet me as she always had, unless the azzhole that came up with that rule was in the branch. Then she could use to cold generic greeting and sort of nod in the direction of the moron. At which point I would light his AZZ up like a Christmas tree for being such an idiot. Needless to say I was never treated like a number again. Refuse to accept crappy service, refuse to be abused by a heartless system. I have found that somewhere, perhaps a way down the food chain you will find someone who actually gives a rats azz and you will get satisfaction.
Screw bureaucracy, screw too big to fail corporations and screw corporate drones!
Sorry, just my rant for the day!


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