# New, Struggling.



## leMiz

New here, been with spouse forever. He recently confessed he's never been particularly sexually attracted to me. He's not gay, not asexual, not having an affair, not ill. It's not about my weight or body type or grooming. When I asked why on earth he married me if he wasn't attracted to me, he muttered something about "choosing something more valuable" and "hoping I [he] could change".

I am, to my surprise, devastated. I feel like I've been lied to for decades. I feel like a fool. I feel like I've wasted my life, in a way. I feel taken advantage of - I've poured so much of my time and my energy into supporting him, thinking about him, doing for him.

I don't know what to do. Financially, a split would be disastrous for us both. He's my closest friend, by a wide margin. I'm embarrassed to talk about it to anyone I know. I don't see how counseling could help, don't see how to walk away and find something better, don't see how to stay and live with this.


----------



## Yeswecan

Seems to be a precursor to something more. Are you sure your H is not having an affair?


----------



## Lostinthought61

So can i ask what does he want to do? has he asked for a divorce?


----------



## BookOfJob

Yeswecan said:


> Seems to be a precursor to something more. Are you sure your H is not having an affair?


This needs to be thought carefully before even asked though this is a flag that needs to be raised in any case. I'd suggest maybe start looking into the dynamics of the relationship from the lowest, lightest possible disconnect and then increasing to more difficult problem.


leMiz said:


> I feel taken advantage of - I've poured so much of my time and my energy into supporting him, thinking about him, doing for him.


What do you think of the below analysis:
the-thermostat-the-ultimate-barometer-of-your-r.21278/
Do you think that there is a thermostat problem in your relationship?


----------



## Girl_power

We’ll automatically he put you in the friend zone. Go find someone who thinks your sexy and loves you for you. 

One time when I was married I checked his google search and he searched “I’m not attracted to my wife anymore”. I was devastated when I found out. (My looks hasn’t changed either). I automatically felt uncomfortable in my own skin around him. I felt like I couldn’t be me. 

I don’t know how you can get past this. Unless you just want to accept that you guys are two good friends and stay together for that reason only.


----------



## leMiz

Yeswecan said:


> Seems to be a precursor to something more. Are you sure your H is not having an affair?


Absolutely. He works from home most days, and generally wants to be in my company. Before COVID-19, I encouraged him to go out with buddies because I thought it was healthier and because I like some alone time, and even then he'd want me to go join them. Not to mention that he's an honorable person, which is part of his appeal.

He genuinely loves me. I'm his closest friend, too. He's just "not attracted" to me. And to me, that's not a romantic love.


----------



## Casual Observer

leMiz said:


> Absolutely. He works from home most days, and generally wants to be in my company. Before COVID-19, I encouraged him to go out with buddies because I thought it was healthier and because I like some alone time, and even then he'd want me to go join them. Not to mention that he's an honorable person, which is part of his appeal.
> 
> He genuinely loves me. I'm his closest friend, too. He's just "not attracted" to me. And to me, that's not a romantic love.


What has been (or not been) the physical manifestation of his not being "attracted" to you? If he'd never said that, how would you have felt about your sex life together? What "proof" do you have that, for reasons unknown, he's telling the truth right now? 

As for counseling, you need it. You need individual counseling because your self-esteem, your sense of importance in the relationship, went from normal to flatline in an instant. He's not going to be able to help with you that, and you've got him as your best friend. You have to go elsewhere. He also needs to get his head straight and seek counseling himself. I think individual counseling takes precedence over marriage counseling at the moment. You shouldn't be focusing on how to stay married; you should be focusing on who each of you are, what you're looking for. 

I am really sorry you have to go through this. Don't assume that he's telling the truth though. There may not be an affair, but there could be some change in his life recently that shook him up, or even mental illness. Or it could be the truth.


----------



## leMiz

Lostinthought61 said:


> So can i ask what does he want to do? has he asked for a divorce?


Ask away: I appreciate that anyone's even interested.

No, he doesn't want a divorce. At all. But he has no idea what to do to fix this.

The discussion came about because we've not had sex in years, and I'd assumed it was down to medication, which he needs. We'd talked on and off about additional meds to address this side effect, and last year I ran out of patience and asked point blank if he ever planned to address the issue. I told him it was important to me. 

He saw his GP, who said the first step was was to address his low testosterone level. And then, somehow, he just couldn't remember to apply the meds daily. Another year went by, and I asked if we should even continue filling the prescription; I felt we were just wasting money, since the Rx won't work if not used daily. I also told him I'm hurt that he couldn't manage to follow through for three months to see if it would be effective. 
And this led to the conversation where he admitted his lack of attraction.


----------



## leMiz

Casual Observer said:


> What has been (or not been) the physical manifestation of his not being "attracted" to you? If he'd never said that, how would you have felt about your sex life together? What "proof" do you have that, for reasons unknown, he's telling the truth right now?
> 
> As for counseling, you need it. You need individual counseling because your self-esteem, your sense of importance in the relationship, went from normal to flatline in an instant. He's not going to be able to help with you that, and you've got him as your best friend. You have to go elsewhere. He also needs to get his head straight and seek counseling himself. I think individual counseling takes precedence over marriage counseling at the moment. You shouldn't be focusing on how to stay married; you should be focusing on who each of you are, what you're looking for.
> 
> I am really sorry you have to go through this. Don't assume that he's telling the truth though. There may not be an affair, but there could be some change in his life recently that shook him up, or even mental illness. Or it could be the truth.


Thank you for responding.

This has been years in the making... I was on an SSRI for a few years, so I had little interest myself then; and I've had some sad times since (deaths, unemployment), so it hasn't always been at the forefront for me. But it's been over a decade since I asked him to consider addressing it.

I've seen his porn, and he doesn't appear to be hiding anything -- nothing gay or underage or bizarrely fetish-y. And as I said, I don't know how he could squeeze in an affair, considering he spends most of the day in my company. And he'd think having an affair was sleazy -- if he wanted someone else, I think he'd tell me, not hide it.

I've been looking for a counselor -- contacted three so far, and none were taking new clients. Dunno what's up with that, but it's hard to get excited about your 4th choice having room in her schedule...


----------



## leMiz

BookOfJob said:


> This needs to be thought carefully before even asked though this is a flag that needs to be raised in any case. I'd suggest maybe start looking into the dynamics of the relationship from the lowest, lightest possible disconnect and then increasing to more difficult problem.
> 
> What do you think of the below analysis:
> the-thermostat-the-ultimate-barometer-of-your-r.21278/
> Do you think that there is a thermostat problem in your relationship?


Thank you for the suggestion. I can see the sense if the idea.

He seems to be fine with the temp. He does have an issue with how much responsibility I take for outcomes -- e.g., if I read a great review of a play and suggest attending and it turns out he doesn't enjoy it, I'll feel guilty and apologize, which he finds unnecessary and irritating. But overall, he seems to thrive when I'm attentive, and feel unsure when I'm emotionally unavailable for some reason.


----------



## leMiz

Girl_power said:


> I don’t know how you can get past this. Unless you just want to accept that you guys are two good friends and stay together for that reason only.


Yeah, I don't know either. I don't feel particularly valuable, and I'm questioning the hell out of my judgement.


----------



## Casual Observer

leMiz said:


> Thank you for responding.
> 
> This has been years in the making... I was on an SSRI for a few years, so I had little interest myself then; and I've had some sad times since (deaths, unemployment), so it hasn't always been at the forefront for me. But it's been over a decade since I asked him to consider addressing it.
> 
> I've seen his porn, and he doesn't appear to be hiding anything -- nothing gay or underage or bizarrely fetish-y. And as I said, I don't know how he could squeeze in an affair, considering he spends most of the day in my company. And he'd think having an affair was sleazy -- if he wanted someone else, I think he'd tell me, not hide it.
> 
> I've been looking for a counselor -- contacted three so far, and none were taking new clients. Dunno what's up with that, but it's hard to get excited about your 4th choice having room in her schedule...


You've been married how many years? How old are you? What age did you marry?
How did you meet and decide to get married?
Were things fine before the SSRI? Did you reject his desires for a number of years?
You have kids? If so, did things change when you had them, and are they still around?
It's been over a decade since you asked him to consider addressing what? A lack of sex?
What are your vacations like? Who plans them?
Do you have similar notions of privacy? When you say you've seen his porn, how did that happen?

Sorry for the random questions. Might provide some backstory, which could be good for nothing more than giving others here something to relate to, which can help you feel you're not alone. There also remains a significant possibility that you've got cause and effect reversed. He may feel he's lacking an attraction to you because he can't perform. It may be a way of rationalizing that the problem isn't completely himself. For some reason he may not want to take responsibility for fixing this. Definitely something for counseling. It could go back to any rejection you might have given him when you were on the SSRIs, if, in fact, he was wanting at that time and you were rejecting.

Regarding the counselors, they're in it deep right now with COVID-19. Lots of stress out there! Your husband may even be a perfect example. But here's the good news. Counseling right now is pretty much 100% via computer, and your counselor can be anywhere in the country. It's a pretty weird thing; I think for some stuff you lose something in the translation, but it's still useful. Point being you can go to Psychology Today and search for counselors anywhere in the country and it could be there are some areas where the supply (of counselors) is greater than the demand.

It is not a foregone conclusion that you will lose your best friend, your husband, or that sex is over for the two of you. You are here, seeking help, and finding strength. You go girl!


----------



## Diana7

Ahhhhh porn. Porn can easily affect the way men see their partners. They are constantly looking at young busty women with certain types of bodies. No woman past a certain age can hope to compete with that, and nor should they have to. Many men stop being able to get aroused without porn and many marriages end up like yours, with the wife feeling unloved and unnattractive, and the man not being willing to stop the porn and needing it to get an erection.
If he stopped the porn it will help, but it will take time and he isnt going to stop if you are ok with it.


----------



## ScottL

Actually I think you might be in a good place. This an opportunity for growth.
Look at what you have going for you. You have a partner that is your best friend. Most marriages more than a few years of length do not even have that. 

I don't quite believe his statement that he was never really physically attracted to you. He has something going on with him. But it really is not about you.
In fact, his feelings are never about you. They are about how he feels about himself. Most often, what we project is what we are actually struggling with ourselves.
This is where we need to do deeper work.

If you are appalled by his comments, it is truly time to start working on yourself. Ask yourself if you were in his shoes how would you want to be treated?
What if you came at this with love? Accepted his statement as is. Now ask yourself how can you help him forward? This is where a true partner and friend would go.

Have you both ever sat down and talked through what you both want out of life. I mean seriously. Not just travel and material things, but what do you want your relationship to look like, what do you want to accomplish together? Often these are difficult discussions to have and they are the most worthwhile. And this is not something that should happen just once. These conversations should be had throughout the marriage. We think that we should just know how to be married and that by just caring we will fix everything. Not so, unless we have done our own growth.

No one can make us happy. We think others do but this is not true. Only we can generate true happiness for ourselves.
This is the work we must do if we want to wake up from the dream that society has programmed into us. 

I invite you to start working on yourself. Build yourself into the person that is happy no matter what happens and things will change.

If you need any help let me know.

Great Journeys!


----------



## Casual Observer

Diana7 said:


> Ahhhhh porn. Porn can easily affect the way men see their partners. They are constantly looking at young busty women with certain types of bodies. No woman past a certain age can hope to compete with that, and nor should they have to. Many men stop being able to get aroused without porn and many marriages end up like yours, with the wife feeling unloved and unnattractive, and the man not being willing to stop the porn and needing it to get an erection.
> If he stopped the porn it will help, but it will take time and he isnt going to stop if you are ok with it.


Again, I think the biggest danger of porn is not that it creates unrealistic expectations of what sex should be, but that it might be allowing someone to avoid dealing with issues involving physical intimacy in their relationship. It can become a substitute that you go to when rejected. I don't think people quite get that. It's common for women to take it personally, an insult, an indication that their partner doesn't value them. It could be that the porn use by the (usually) husband is a result of their partner not valuing THEM.

When my relationship with my wife hit the fan, when I discovered the early on (and perpetuated) lies and deceit that created a wall between her own sexual feelings and any real intimacy with me, an explanation for why there'd been rejection for 40+ years... I stopped looking at porn cold-turkey. And haven't since, in over a year and a half. I don't see porn as evil; I see it as something that allowed me to keep from dealing with something I should have dealt with ages and ages ago. Our marriage should have hit the reset button, or failed, early on. We find so many reasons to keep on going though. Porn can facilitate just keeping on, going nowhere fast.


----------



## Imagirl

This will be an unpopular opinion but here goes. I don't think physical attraction is everything. I am by no means beautiful. Not even a little bit. But here I am attached to a gorgeous guy. I've known since I was little that I didn't fit the world's definition of beauty. I've always known I'd never have good morning beautiful texts. So I just have that acceptance. In fact my guy told me early on that before me he dated beautiful women. Yet those women got the boot and I got a ring. Beauty isn't everything. Sure, sometimes I wish I knew what it felt like to be gorgeous. To get all that comes with it... The compliments, the flowers, the pride when you're on his arm. But here we are, beauty and the beast in reverse. And I accept that because to have ever expected more would've been chasing rainbows. He loves you. Of course we want it all but if I had to pick I'd take love and friendship and kindness over attraction.


----------



## Casual Observer

Imagirl said:


> This will be an unpopular opinion but here goes. I don't think physical attraction is everything. I am by no means beautiful. Not even a little bit. But here I am attached to a gorgeous guy. I've known since I was little that I didn't fit the world's definition of beauty. I've always known I'd never have good morning beautiful texts. So I just have that acceptance. In fact my guy told me early on that before me he dated beautiful women. Yet those women got the boot and I got a ring. Beauty isn't everything. Sure, sometimes I wish I knew what it felt like to be gorgeous. To get all that comes with it... The compliments, the flowers, the pride when you're on his arm. But here we are, beauty and the beast in reverse. And I accept that because to have ever expected more would've been chasing rainbows. He loves you. Of course we want it all but if I had to pick I'd take love and friendship and kindness over attraction.


i know it wasn’t your intent but your post makes me terribly sad. You can be hugely physically attracted to a partner who doesn’t in any way meet the normal standards for drop-dead gorgeous. Because the only vote that matters is in the only mind that matters.

My wife is 5’3”, 200(+?) pounds, horribly done false boobs post-mastectomy. And I’m proud to have her on my arm, and send her flirty texts in the morning. Her self-esteem issues are of her own making. I want to take her places, I want to make out with her, I desire her. Despite a whole lot of years of rejection and torment caused by undeclared baggage.

Attractiveness does not have to have anything to do with sexual desire. It can, it often does, but it doesn’t have to.

“I’ve always known I’d never have good morning beautiful texts.” Don’t sell yourself short. You may have put on a facade that tells the man who loves you that you’re not into that, because you think you don’t deserve it. You do.


----------



## leMiz

Casual Observer said:


> You've been married how many years? How old are you? What age did you marry?
> How did you meet and decide to get married?
> Were things fine before the SSRI? Did you reject his desires for a number of years?
> You have kids? If so, did things change when you had them, and are they still around?
> It's been over a decade since you asked him to consider addressing what? A lack of sex?
> What are your vacations like? Who plans them?
> Do you have similar notions of privacy? When you say you've seen his porn, how did that happen?
> 
> Sorry for the random questions. Might provide some backstory, which could be good for nothing more than giving others here something to relate to, which can help you feel you're not alone. There also remains a significant possibility that you've got cause and effect reversed. He may feel he's lacking an attraction to you because he can't perform. It may be a way of rationalizing that the problem isn't completely himself. For some reason he may not want to take responsibility for fixing this. Definitely something for counseling. It could go back to any rejection you might have given him when you were on the SSRIs, if, in fact, he was wanting at that time and you were rejecting.
> 
> Regarding the counselors, they're in it deep right now with COVID-19. Lots of stress out there! Your husband may even be a perfect example. But here's the good news. Counseling right now is pretty much 100% via computer, and your counselor can be anywhere in the country. It's a pretty weird thing; I think for some stuff you lose something in the translation, but it's still useful. Point being you can go to Psychology Today and search for counselors anywhere in the country and it could be there are some areas where the supply (of counselors) is greater than the demand.
> 
> It is not a foregone conclusion that you will lose your best friend, your husband, or that sex is over for the two of you. You are here, seeking help, and finding strength. You go girl!


You're very kind. Thank you for the good wishes, and good ideas. I hadn't considered looking outside my geographic area for a therapist -- I'll have to see if there are insurance restrictions.

Answers/background --
We met early 20's at university, and have been together for a decade before marriage, over a decade married. No kids.

For over a decade we had no sex; I was on an SSRI for about two years of that. I don't believe I routinely rejected his desires, with two exceptions: morning sex is problematic for me because my hugely acute sense of smell/taste makes morning breath a trial (my own breath as well as his) but mentioning it made him self-conscious; and drunken sex (because, um, the reach often exceeds the grasp, as it were). But even with those exceptions, he's definitely said no more often than I have. 

I'd always assumed I'm just the higher-libido person. For the first half of our relationship, we lived in different cities during the week and saw each other on the weekends, which I think helped obscure the issue. He had a bad bout of mono right after we first started having sex and is rather a hypochondriac; again, I think this helped hide the lack of interest. Hard to play Romeo when you're exhausted after 10 minutes of sitting up! And we both had flu on our honeymoon... 

Anyway, I first brought up the question about addressing his medication's side effects a year or two after the sex stopped. I was being patient, and understanding. He really needs the medication, and I didn't want to pressure him or make him feel bad about taking it. Every time I brought it up, he agreed it was something to consider; he just never did anything about it. I'd wait a year or more to bring it up again, still wanting to be patient and understanding. I stopped even trying to initiate sex about six months after he started the medication. During the period I was on the SSRI, I didn't have much libido myself and it wasn't so bad. He told me during The Conversation that he'd just assumed I wasn't interested in sex either. 

Since he finally went to his GP last spring (so, almost 18 months ago), I tried to initiate again, and we've had "sex" about a half-dozen times, I think. It's in quotes because, well, he's not actually a recipient, if that's clear? It's not particularly satisfying to me, because one of the great pleasures of sex is giving the other person pleasure. It feels like a favor he's doing me because he cares about me, not something we're sharing.

We don't vacation often. When we do, I plan. Generally we rent a vacation house with other friends/family. He's never ben interested in romantic getaways (to be fair, it's not something I've ever expressed an interest in).

He's actually less private than I am. I've seen his porn because I've stumbled over it (into it?) at various times over the years when on devices we share (counting phones, tablets, and a smart tv, there are 8 in the household). It's never seemed deliberately left up and I've generally not mentioned it. 

I wish it were possible that I've reversed cause and effect, but he was quite clear. We've had two conversations now, and the during the second I asked him to clarify. He confirmed that his lack of attractions isn't something that developed: he's never been particularly attracted to me.

Thank you again. Sorry if that was TMI.


----------



## leMiz

Diana7 said:


> Ahhhhh porn. Porn can easily affect the way men see their partners. They are constantly looking at young busty women with certain types of bodies. No woman past a certain age can hope to compete with that, and nor should they have to. Many men stop being able to get aroused without porn and many marriages end up like yours, with the wife feeling unloved and unnattractive, and the man not being willing to stop the porn and needing it to get an erection.
> If he stopped the porn it will help, but it will take time and he isnt going to stop if you are ok with it.


Thank you for responding.

I'm not actually okay with porn, for a number of reasons, and he knows that. I'm not comfortable asking him to stop using it, however. FWIW, based on what I've seen, he's not interested in particular body types or age groups, and seems to prefer ordinary-looking women who aren't air-brushed, bleached, or otherwise "enhanced".


----------



## leMiz

ScottL said:


> Actually I think you might be in a good place. This an opportunity for growth.
> Look at what you have going for you. You have a partner that is your best friend. Most marriages more than a few years of length do not even have that.
> 
> I don't quite believe his statement that he was never really physically attracted to you. He has something going on with him. But it really is not about you.
> In fact, his feelings are never about you. They are about how he feels about himself. Most often, what we project is what we are actually struggling with ourselves.
> This is where we need to do deeper work.
> 
> If you are appalled by his comments, it is truly time to start working on yourself. Ask yourself if you were in his shoes how would you want to be treated?
> What if you came at this with love? Accepted his statement as is. Now ask yourself how can you help him forward? This is where a true partner and friend would go.
> 
> Have you both ever sat down and talked through what you both want out of life. I mean seriously. Not just travel and material things, but what do you want your relationship to look like, what do you want to accomplish together? Often these are difficult discussions to have and they are the most worthwhile. And this is not something that should happen just once. These conversations should be had throughout the marriage. We think that we should just know how to be married and that by just caring we will fix everything. Not so, unless we have done our own growth.
> 
> No one can make us happy. We think others do but this is not true. Only we can generate true happiness for ourselves.
> This is the work we must do if we want to wake up from the dream that society has programmed into us.
> 
> I invite you to start working on yourself. Build yourself into the person that is happy no matter what happens and things will change.
> 
> If you need any help let me know.
> 
> Great Journeys!


 I appreciate your thoughtful response.

But he's been quite clear that he was never really attracted to me. And I don't know if I want to help him forward. He's lied to me, at least by omission, for our entire relationship. I have struggled to be understanding and patient and accepting, and all along he was with me -- he _married _me -- under false pretenses. I don't expect someone else to make me happy. But I've spent my entire adult life on this lie. I can't get those years back. I want someone who wants me the way I've always wanted him, I've always wanted that, and I've made allowances and excuses and told myself not to be selfish and reminded myself to value what we had and all along, all along, he _knew _he was lying to me. For decades. I can't see how to be happy with that. 

For whatever it's worth, we've had the conversations you're talking about. From the beginning. I'm no romantic prize, I'll grant you, but I am emotionally present and responsible. I'm a planner. I've initiated almost every one of those conversations over the years, because I agree, caring alone won't fix things.


----------



## leMiz

Casual Observer said:


> Again, I think the biggest danger of porn is not that it creates unrealistic expectations of what sex should be, but that it might be allowing someone to avoid dealing with issues involving physical intimacy in their relationship. It can become a substitute that you go to when rejected. I don't think people quite get that. It's common for women to take it personally, an insult, an indication that their partner doesn't value them. It could be that the porn use by the (usually) husband is a result of their partner not valuing THEM.
> 
> When my relationship with my wife hit the fan, when I discovered the early on (and perpetuated) lies and deceit that created a wall between her own sexual feelings and any real intimacy with me, an explanation for why there'd been rejection for 40+ years... I stopped looking at porn cold-turkey. And haven't since, in over a year and a half. I don't see porn as evil; I see it as something that allowed me to keep from dealing with something I should have dealt with ages and ages ago. Our marriage should have hit the reset button, or failed, early on. We find so many reasons to keep on going though. Porn can facilitate just keeping on, going nowhere fast.


Thank you for responding so thoughtfully. I agree with most of it, and I'm glad to hear that giving up porn has been empowering and cathartic for you.

I don't take his porn use personally. I don't care for it, but I know it's not about me.


----------



## leMiz

Imagirl said:


> This will be an unpopular opinion but here goes. I don't think physical attraction is everything. I am by no means beautiful. Not even a little bit. But here I am attached to a gorgeous guy. I've known since I was little that I didn't fit the world's definition of beauty. I've always known I'd never have good morning beautiful texts. So I just have that acceptance. In fact my guy told me early on that before me he dated beautiful women. Yet those women got the boot and I got a ring. Beauty isn't everything. Sure, sometimes I wish I knew what it felt like to be gorgeous. To get all that comes with it... The compliments, the flowers, the pride when you're on his arm. But here we are, beauty and the beast in reverse. And I accept that because to have ever expected more would've been chasing rainbows. He loves you. Of course we want it all but if I had to pick I'd take love and friendship and kindness over attraction.


Thank you for responding.

My husband doesn't think I'm unattractive. He says -- has always said -- he thinks I'm appealing, cute, pretty, stylish (all his words). He's not _sexually attracted _to me. 

I understand. I know many people I find aesthetically attractive --- appealing, cute, pretty, stylish -- but have no sexual desire for. I've known a number of people who objectively, by society's standards, were just ordinary-looking or even ugly, but found tremendously sexually desirable. (Truly! In fact, my husband met a crush of mine -- he knew about the crush -- and told me crush was the ugliest man he'd ever met.)


----------



## leMiz

Casual Observer said:


> i know it wasn’t your intent but your post makes me terribly sad. You can be hugely physically attracted to a partner who doesn’t in any way meet the normal standards for drop-dead gorgeous. Because the only vote that matters is in the only mind that matters.
> 
> My wife is 5’3”, 200(+?) pounds, horribly done false boobs post-mastectomy. And I’m proud to have her on my arm, and send her flirty texts in the morning. Her self-esteem issues are of her own making. I want to take her places, I want to make out with her, I desire her. Despite a whole lot of years of rejection and torment caused by undeclared baggage.
> 
> Attractiveness does not have to have anything to do with sexual desire. It can, it often does, but it doesn’t have to.
> 
> “I’ve always known I’d never have good morning beautiful texts.” Don’t sell yourself short. You may have put on a facade that tells the man who loves you that you’re not into that, because you think you don’t deserve it. You do.


Thank you for responding. 

I envy your wife. She has with you what I've always wanted with my husband. I wish you every happiness in each other.


----------



## frusdil

Imagirl said:


> This will be an unpopular opinion but here goes. I don't think physical attraction is everything. I am by no means beautiful. Not even a little bit. But here I am attached to a gorgeous guy. I've known since I was little that I didn't fit the world's definition of beauty. I've always known I'd never have good morning beautiful texts. So I just have that acceptance. In fact my guy told me early on that before me he dated beautiful women. Yet those women got the boot and I got a ring. Beauty isn't everything. Sure, sometimes I wish I knew what it felt like to be gorgeous. To get all that comes with it... The compliments, the flowers, the pride when you're on his arm. But here we are, beauty and the beast in reverse. And I accept that because to have ever expected more would've been chasing rainbows. He loves you. Of course we want it all but if I had to pick I'd take love and friendship and kindness over attraction.


Your post really moved me @Imagirl . How do you know you're not beautiful honey? Your man clearly thinks you are the most beautiful woman in the world  Beauty is very much in the eye of the beholder. The most beautiful (aesthetically) appearing person who's ugly on the inside, isn't actually beautiful at all. Someone who is what others consider plain to look at, who is confident in herself, knows her worth and is beautiful inside, can actually be the most beautiful woman to a man who loves her. True, real beauty comes from within. I believe that with all my heart x


----------



## Dadto2

From a guy's point of view....

Are you two having any sex? A guy doesn't have to be attracted to someone to want to have sex. Sure, it helps. But we have needs and will take what is readily available to get a release (one reason guys masturbate...no woman in our lives or wife doesn't want to have sex).

Is it possible he has low T or is depression? Both can kill our desire for sex and in turn, our physical attraction to others. 



leMiz said:


> And as I said, I don't know how he could squeeze in an affair, considering he spends most of the day in my company. And he'd think having an affair was sleazy -- if he wanted someone else, I think he'd tell me, not hide it.


Thought the same thing about my first wife. She went to work, came home and was with me all the time on the weekends. She still found time to cheat while on breaks from work. And everyone hides their affairs. Not saying he's cheating...probably not...but don't count it out. Keep your eyes open.


----------



## routerx

Here is why you should not be devastated: You loved him and supported him. You had character. You should look in the mirror and see yourself as someone with integrity. What he said to you was horrible and is his issue. The reality is that he likely isn't attracted to you because he has an internal issue. After living with ANYONE he likely would not be attracted to them. Love is much deeper than physical attraction - it's wanting to be intimate with someone because there is a bond and a love for someone that doesn't depend on body type or how someone's eyes, ears or nose looks. 

I share your pain - I recently found out my wife had a nice little collection of lingerie she said was from the past (maybe it is, maybe it's not) but the reality is she got dolled up for other men at some point but never for me. Never has worn them for me. Gee - makes me feel pretty UNspecial. I consider that a HER problem though. I HAVE supported her. I HAVE given her the money and time to do what she wants. So, I realize I'm married to someone with some intimacy issues. 

What do we do? We start with the self - and ask ourselves if we have loved them? Have we honored them? Do we respect them? We have done our best. Then there is no shame for us. 

I wish you well. You deserve to be loved and appreciated.


----------



## Casual Observer

leMiz said:


> Thank you for responding.
> 
> I envy your wife. She has with you what I've always wanted with my husband. I wish you every happiness in each other.


You may have what you've always wanted in a husband too; your own insecurities might be holding you back. He may be more excited by you than you think. Give him the opportunity.

As for being envious of my wife, that's a mixed bag, with everything we've been going through. Between us we are seeing THREE therapists presently; an individual therapist for her, who specializes in EMDR work to deal with severe guilt & shame from an undisclosed past, a marriage counselor to try and deal with the flood of emotion that has come with the disclosure of that undisclosed past and how it resulted in her telling me she's "resented sex for 40 years" and basically rejected sex throughout our marriage, and now a sex therapist who is very expensive and I'm not quite sure she's ready for. So she's going through a bit of a meat grinder at the moment, and continuing as things were and splitting up or working through her shame and acknowledging and finally dealing with a past that was very much at odds with her narrative.

And despite all that I remain crazy in love with this woman and the goal is to be there for each other until one of us dies. But the physical intimacy issues have to be fixed. 

Please consider yourself worthy of your dreams. You are. Don't let a couple decades go by and still be thinking the same thoughts. Don't let yourself shrink into the background. The rest of your life starts today.


----------



## MattMatt

@leMiz have you thought of counselling for him? And marital counselling, too?


----------



## leMiz

routerx said:


> Here is why you should not be devastated: You loved him and supported him. You had character. You should look in the mirror and see yourself as someone with integrity. What he said to you was horrible and is his issue. The reality is that he likely isn't attracted to you because he has an internal issue. After living with ANYONE he likely would not be attracted to them. Love is much deeper than physical attraction - it's wanting to be intimate with someone because there is a bond and a love for someone that doesn't depend on body type or how someone's eyes, ears or nose looks.
> 
> I share your pain - I recently found out my wife had a nice little collection of lingerie she said was from the past (maybe it is, maybe it's not) but the reality is she got dolled up for other men at some point but never for me. Never has worn them for me. Gee - makes me feel pretty UNspecial. I consider that a HER problem though. I HAVE supported her. I HAVE given her the money and time to do what she wants. So, I realize I'm married to someone with some intimacy issues.
> 
> What do we do? We start with the self - and ask ourselves if we have loved them? Have we honored them? Do we respect them? We have done our best. Then there is no shame for us.
> 
> I wish you well. You deserve to be loved and appreciated.


Thank you for your kind words.


----------



## leMiz

Casual Observer said:


> You may have what you've always wanted in a husband too; your own insecurities might be holding you back. He may be more excited by you than you think. Give him the opportunity.
> 
> As for being envious of my wife, that's a mixed bag, with everything we've been going through. Between us we are seeing THREE therapists presently; an individual therapist for her, who specializes in EMDR work to deal with severe guilt & shame from an undisclosed past, a marriage counselor to try and deal with the flood of emotion that has come with the disclosure of that undisclosed past and how it resulted in her telling me she's "resented sex for 40 years" and basically rejected sex throughout our marriage, and now a sex therapist who is very expensive and I'm not quite sure she's ready for. So she's going through a bit of a meat grinder at the moment, and continuing as things were and splitting up or working through her shame and acknowledging and finally dealing with a past that was very much at odds with her narrative.
> 
> And despite all that I remain crazy in love with this woman and the goal is to be there for each other until one of us dies. But the physical intimacy issues have to be fixed.
> 
> Please consider yourself worthy of your dreams. You are. Don't let a couple decades go by and still be thinking the same thoughts. Don't let yourself shrink into the background. The rest of your life starts today.


Casual Observer -- wow, that sounds like a ton to deal with. I hope it all works out for you and your wife. And thank you for your kind words, and taking the time to respond at such length.


----------



## leMiz

routerx said:


> Here is why you should not be devastated: You loved him and supported him. You had character. You should look in the mirror and see yourself as someone with integrity. What he said to you was horrible and is his issue. The reality is that he likely isn't attracted to you because he has an internal issue. After living with ANYONE he likely would not be attracted to them. Love is much deeper than physical attraction - it's wanting to be intimate with someone because there is a bond and a love for someone that doesn't depend on body type or how someone's eyes, ears or nose looks.
> 
> I share your pain - I recently found out my wife had a nice little collection of lingerie she said was from the past (maybe it is, maybe it's not) but the reality is she got dolled up for other men at some point but never for me. Never has worn them for me. Gee - makes me feel pretty UNspecial. I consider that a HER problem though. I HAVE supported her. I HAVE given her the money and time to do what she wants. So, I realize I'm married to someone with some intimacy issues.
> 
> What do we do? We start with the self - and ask ourselves if we have loved them? Have we honored them? Do we respect them? We have done our best. Then there is no shame for us.
> 
> I wish you well. You deserve to be loved and appreciated.


Thank you for your kind response. I hope things work out for you and your wife.

In my husband's defense, he really didn't mean to hurt my feelings. I don't believe he's really thought about the implications of it all.


----------



## leMiz

MattMatt said:


> @leMiz have you thought of counselling for him? And marital counselling, too?


Hi, MattMatt.

He has been in counseling, most recently from about 2016-2018. It was quite successful, I think, and he's a much more peaceful, centered, responsible person now. However, it was also quite expensive, and that was a factor in his decision to leave.

It actually hadn't occurred to me to ask if this was something he discussed in therapy. He generally shared with me the outline of his conversations in therapy, but of course this could be something he held back; it could also be something he never discussed. I honestly have a feeling that he believed it wasn't a big deal, although of course that begs the question of why it's taken decades for it to be discussed. 

As for marital counseling -- I dunno where I stand. I feel pretty sure that sexual attraction is outside the bounds of what therapy can accomplish, so therapy would be about accepting the situation and trying to find a way to keep the marriage going. At the same time.... well, at the same time, I don't know if there's really a marriage to save. It's not that his interest in me has diminished: he literally never felt much interest at all. 

While I ponder, I haven't mentioned marital counseling to him. My feeling is that he will panic at the suggestion, and want to know if I'm planning to leave. Since I don't know myself what I'll ultimately do, I don't want to discuss it. I'm emotionally exhausted from this revelation already: I've been examining our years together through this new lens, and recognizing that yes, he has behaved very much more like a good friend than like an intimate partner. I'm sure it's not healthy and a major factor in my exhaustion, but every time I try to put the topic aside I remember, out of the blue, another example. 

Sorry to be so wordy. Right now, this forum is my only outlet for these feelings. Thank you for responding.


----------



## heartsbeating

leMiz said:


> My husband doesn't think I'm unattractive. He says -- has always said -- he thinks I'm appealing, cute, pretty, stylish (all his words). He's not _sexually attracted _to me.


I'm a bit devastated for you, too. I can only imagine how you must feel. What I will say though, is that it sounds like you gave all the support you could give - so if you decide to part ways - you can know this within yourself. I also agree with your sentiment that while physical aspects can be a part of sexual attraction, it's not the whole; particularly in long-term relationships. What you shared in your opening post about how he thought he would change, well, yeah here is someone who has done both of you a disservice. And seemingly does have issues around intimacy. 

I can't help but ask - do you know what does stir sexual attraction for him?


----------



## Casual Observer

leMiz said:


> Hi, MattMatt.
> 
> He has been in counseling, most recently from about 2016-2018. It was quite successful, I think, and he's a much more peaceful, centered, responsible person now. However, it was also quite expensive, and that was a factor in his decision to leave.
> 
> It actually hadn't occurred to me to ask if this was something he discussed in therapy. He generally shared with me the outline of his conversations in therapy, but of course this could be something he held back; it could also be something he never discussed. I honestly have a feeling that he believed it wasn't a big deal, although of course that begs the question of why it's taken decades for it to be discussed.
> 
> As for marital counseling -- I dunno where I stand. I feel pretty sure that sexual attraction is outside the bounds of what therapy can accomplish, so therapy would be about accepting the situation and trying to find a way to keep the marriage going. At the same time.... well, at the same time, I don't know if there's really a marriage to save. It's not that his interest in me has diminished: he literally never felt much interest at all.
> 
> While I ponder, I haven't mentioned marital counseling to him. My feeling is that he will panic at the suggestion, and want to know if I'm planning to leave. Since I don't know myself what I'll ultimately do, I don't want to discuss it. I'm emotionally exhausted from this revelation already: I've been examining our years together through this new lens, and recognizing that yes, he has behaved very much more like a good friend than like an intimate partner. I'm sure it's not healthy and a major factor in my exhaustion, but every time I try to put the topic aside I remember, out of the blue, another example.
> 
> Sorry to be so wordy. Right now, this forum is my only outlet for these feelings. Thank you for responding.


Wordy? You’re an amateur compared to some of us!

I think marriage counseling will give you some clarity as there will be a 3rd party that you will be accountable to and will challenge your husband for the truth. You have nothing to lose that’s not already lost or at risk.


----------



## heartsbeating

leMiz said:


> While I ponder, I haven't mentioned marital counseling to him. My feeling is that he will panic at the suggestion, and want to know if I'm planning to leave. Since I don't know myself what I'll ultimately do, I don't want to discuss it.


So what if he panics?

Also, I agree with the suggestion of you seeking IC - above MC.
(edited as I went back and re-read)


----------



## heartsbeating

leMiz said:


> He saw his GP, who said the first step was was to address his low testosterone level. And then, somehow, he just couldn't remember to apply the meds daily. Another year went by, and I asked if we should even continue filling the prescription; I felt we were just wasting money, since the Rx won't work if not used daily. I also told him I'm hurt that he couldn't manage to follow through for three months to see if it would be effective.
> And this led to the conversation where he admitted his lack of attraction.


Sorry love, but this is a big sign... he may seem honorable in aspects of his life, yet he didn't follow through with what was needed to facilitate you both to become closer. He disregarded your needs. I wonder why he did that. It's not for you to solve or figure out, though. That's very much on him.

You do need to look after yourself though. And this is where IC may benefit you (as suggested by others already).


----------



## leMiz

Dadto2 said:


> From a guy's point of view....
> 
> Are you two having any sex? A guy doesn't have to be attracted to someone to want to have sex. Sure, it helps. But we have needs and will take what is readily available to get a release (one reason guys masturbate...no woman in our lives or wife doesn't want to have sex).
> 
> Is it possible he has low T or is depression? Both can kill our desire for sex and in turn, our physical attraction to others.
> 
> 
> 
> Thought the same thing about my first wife. She went to work, came home and was with me all the time on the weekends. She still found time to cheat while on breaks from work. And everyone hides their affairs. Not saying he's cheating...probably not...but don't count it out. Keep your eyes open.


Thank you for responding

He does have depression and low T, and has medication for both. The medication for low T is the one that he forgets to take. It's actually a first step -- if that's not sufficient, the GP will try something else. But he forgets to take it, so we can't judge if it's effective on its own or not... so, no second step.

FWIW, I also have clinical depression, diagnosed as more severe ("major depressive disorder, recurrent severe without psychotic features") than his ("major depressive disorder, recurrent, moderate").

I think I explained in an earlier comment that we have been sort of "intimate" a few times this year, but that it felt like a favor he was doing me rather than something shared, the more so because he clearly wasn't aroused. It just got embarrassing. 

I appreciate the concern you voice about cheating, and I'm sorry you experienced that betrayal. But it would be entirely out of character for him. Years ago, we had a friend staying with us, and one evening I went to bed with a migraine while they stayed up drinking and watching movies. She kissed him, they made out, and he was so overcome with guilt that he woke me up to confess, in tears.


----------



## leMiz

heartsbeating said:


> I'm a bit devastated for you, too. I can only imagine how you must feel. What I will say though, is that it sounds like you gave all the support you could give - so if you decide to part ways - you can know this within yourself. I also agree with your sentiment that while physical aspects can be a part of sexual attraction, it's not the whole; particularly in long-term relationships. What you shared in your opening post about how he thought he would change, well, yeah here is someone who has done both of you a disservice. And seemingly does have issues around intimacy.
> 
> I can't help but ask - do you know what does stir sexual attraction for him?


Thank you for your kind reply! I do feel he's done us both a disservice. If he'd acknowledged his lack of attraction, I might still have married him -- but I'd have _known_. I might have married him and found a boyfriend. I might have stayed single, but still lived with him. I acted on bad information, because he acted in bad faith. 

He's not very forthcoming about what does stir attraction for him. He has a hard time talking about sex. I know he likes "strong" women, but when I tried taking charge, he just seemed bored. And he's not particularly vocal. For all know, our sex has been thoroughly mediocre or even bad for him, because he doesn't respond in a way that indicates, "yes keep doing that" or even "meh, kind of dull" -- only, and rarely, when something's not comfortable for him.


----------



## leMiz

heartsbeating said:


> Sorry love, but this is a big sign... he may seem honorable in aspects of his life, yet he didn't follow through with what was needed to facilitate you both to become closer. He disregarded your needs. I wonder why he did that. It's not for you to solve or figure out, though. That's very much on him.
> 
> You do need to look after yourself though. And this is where IC may benefit you (as suggested by others already).


"He disregarded your needs." This, so much this! I actually taxed him with this in The Conversation. He said he hadn't seen it that way, he just kept forgetting. He's been very diligent the last few weeks, in fact just told me t his morning that he's submitted the refill request so he doesn't run out (another thing that kept occurring).

He's a kind and loving person. But he was raised in a household where his father sucked up all the emotional energy and the family complied as if it were his right; his mother routinely put her husband's needs above their children's. The result is he can be oddly self-centered, where he doesn't disregard my wishes out of lack of concern, but literally doesn't think far enough ahead to consider what effect his actions (that aren't direct interactions with me) might have on me. 

I just feel so _stuck_. The sunk costs here (if that's not too cold an analogy) are enormous... but at the same time, I feel bereft and utterly sure I want, possibly deserve, more. And at the very same time, I'm quite aware that my aesthetic, social, and economic capital are probably not sufficient to improve on what I have with him if I leave. 

Sorry to drone on so. I'm feeling down to my bones, like a bad depressive episode. It's as if it's literally weighing one me.


----------



## Casual Observer

leMiz said:


> "He disregarded your needs." This, so much this! I actually taxed him with this in The Conversation. He said he hadn't seen it that way, he just kept forgetting. He's been very diligent the last few weeks, in fact just told me t his morning that he's submitted the refill request so he doesn't run out (another thing that kept occurring).


This would seem like a rather major change in attitude on his part. What would happen if you simply took that ball and ran with it? Assume that this is the start of a "new him" and you're there to both encourage and take advantage of it? Give him a lot of credit for investing in your relationship, finally, instead of focusing on the past.

Or are you so burned out by now that he could totally reinvent himself and it wouldn't matter?


----------



## Casual Observer

leMiz said:


> I think I explained in an earlier comment that we have been sort of "intimate" a few times this year, but that it felt like a favor he was doing me rather than something shared, the more so because he clearly wasn't aroused. It just got embarrassing.
> 
> I appreciate the concern you voice about cheating, and I'm sorry you experienced that betrayal. But it would be entirely out of character for him. Years ago, we had a friend staying with us, and one evening I went to bed with a migraine while they stayed up drinking and watching movies. She kissed him, they made out, and he was so overcome with guilt that he woke me up to confess, in tears.


Two things going on here. First, if he can get any pleasure from trying to make you happy, that's a really good thing. He doesn't have to derive personal physical pleasure for it to be a moving experience for him. If he feels he can do something for you, with you... that can be more than enough. That's more than many have. 

Second thing. Making out with another woman, even if it's just kissing and fully-clothed groping, is cheating. That was an opportunity for the two of you to get things right, establish standards of privacy and boundaries and recognize something was seriously wrong in your relationship and deal with it. Why didn't you??? If you just moved on after he tearfully confessed etc., no big deal, you contributed to the problem you're facing now. He needs more validation than that, more anger that he crossed a bridge he shouldn't have crossed. He was not able to fully deal with what went on. You may have actually been rather cruel to him in not making a big thing out of it, because you undermined how important (exclusive) intimacy is in your relationship. 

I think you need to go back to that experience and deal with it, probably through a counselor. That was really quite a surprising and shocking thing to see you kind of casually post.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

You defend everything this guy does. I've seen several differenrt excuses for his **** behavior that you've made, here in this thread.

It' quite clear you're bending over backwards in order to hold onto this guy who has put exactly *ZERO* effort into your marriage. Even when *given* the damned medication for low T, you make excuses for him because he "forgets" to take it(a/k/a doesn't give enough of a rat's ass to MAKE an effort to take it every day).

You know what? People don't do what they don't want to do and if he REALLY gave a crap about youand your marriage, he'd be all OVER the T medication. he's not. Instead, he tells you how he's never been attracted to you.

What a prince.



> I just feel so _stuck_. The sunk costs here (if that's not too cold an analogy) are enormous


I figured that's why you were bending over backwards to accept his **** behavoir. I guess your choices are to stay with someone who clearly doesn't give a **** and has* no* problem letting you know that through his lack of actions year after year.

I'd live in a tenement apartment and eat Spaghettios for a year before I'd stay with someone who has let me know - through his words *AND* his lack of actions - how little he cares romantically and that he only married me because I was the more honorable choice. I wouldn't waste another day on someone like t his.

Screw thart.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

Casual Observer said:


> Two things going on here. First, if he can get any pleasure from trying to make you happy, that's a really good thing. He doesn't have to derive personal physical pleasure for it to be a moving experience for him. If he feels he can do something for you, with you... that can be more than enough. That's more than many have.


You mean like continually "forgetting" to take his "T" medication to see if that would finally improve things? 

Here he had the chance to FINALLY make an actual *effort* and what does he do? He conveniently "forgets" to take his medication more than he remembers..and the end result - big surprise! - is that there IS no result due to inconsistency. Only a freakin' 15 year old kid is this immature and irresponsible.

He's a real prince, this one.


----------



## lifeistooshort

She'sStillGotIt said:


> You defend everything this guy does. I've seen several differenrt excuses for his **** behavior that you've made, here in this thread.
> 
> It' quite clear you're bending over backwards in order to hold onto this guy who has put exactly *ZERO* effort into your marriage. Even when *given* the damned medication for low T, you make excuses for him because he "forgets" to take it(a/k/a doesn't give enough of a rat's ass to MAKE an effort to take it every day).
> 
> You know what? People don't do what they don't want to do and if he REALLY gave a crap about youand your marriage, he'd be all OVER the T medication. he's not. Instead, he tells you how he's never been attracted to you.
> 
> What a prince.
> 
> 
> 
> I figured that's why you were bending over backwards to accept his *** behavoir. I guess your choices are to stay with someone who clearly doesn't give a *** and has* no* problem letting you know that through his lack of actions year after year.
> 
> I'd live in a tenement apartment and eat Spaghettios for a year before I'd stay with someone who has let me know - through his words *AND* his lack of actions - how little he cares romantically and that he only married me because I was the more honorable choice. I wouldn't waste another day on someone like t his.
> 
> Screw thart.



I have to agree with this. My ex had ED he refused to do anything about.

He knew it was an issue....he just didn't want to deal with it, and even he wasn't nasty enough to tell me he just wasn't attracted to me.

That is a deliberate response to go for the jugular so that you wouldn't approach him anymore.

Its a real **** move.

Men make all kinds of efforts for women they really want. I'd seriously consider letting this one go. There are plenty of men put there who will want you sexually and be great guys.

I know....i left my ex and currently have a great guy who really wants me sexually.....on a regular basis.

Don't waste your life.


----------



## leMiz

It would be the kind thing to do. But...

I feel like I've been thru this cycle before, with other behaviors: I bring it up while trying to be patient; he promises to do better; nothing changes; I get determined and tell him to stop yessing me; he panics and becomes very demonstrative about changing; and then, over months or weeks, goes back to how he was.

I'm so tired of taking care, trying to be kind and fair and reasonable. I want to be selfish right now.


----------



## leMiz

She'sStillGotIt said:


> You mean like continually "forgetting" to take his "T" medication to see if that would finally improve things?
> 
> Here he had the chance to FINALLY make an actual *effort* and what does he do? He conveniently "forgets" to take his medication more than he remembers..and the end result - big surprise! - is that there IS no result due to inconsistency. Only a freakin' 15 year old kid is this immature and irresponsible.
> 
> He's a real prince, this one.


Yes! Exactly! This is such a simple, obvious task: must take drug to see if drug works. Every morning he remembers to shower. Every morning he remembers to brush his teeth. How can he not remember this one, fast, easy thing meant to address a need of mine that he agrees is valid?

The complicated part is he is actually princely, in so many ways. And then I'm torn: I have a husband who genuinely believes I'm wonderful. Am I just greedy to want more? Should I be complaining at all, given the balance?


----------



## heartsbeating

leMiz said:


> Yes! Exactly! This is such a simple, obvious task: must take drug to see if drug works. Every morning he remembers to shower. Every morning he remembers to brush his teeth. How can he not remember this one, fast, easy thing meant to address a need of mine that he agrees is valid?
> 
> The complicated part is he is actually princely, in so many ways. And then I'm torn: I have a husband who genuinely believes I'm wonderful. Am I just greedy to want more? Should I be complaining at all, given the balance?


How can he not remember?

Because it’s passive-aggressive b*s that’s why. However, as I mentioned in my last post - the reason that he doesn’t isn’t for you to solve or work out.

If you want a lover and sexual connection, that’s more than reasonable to want that in your marriage with your husband. Unless you have a non-traditional arrangement, the way I view things is that my man is the only one I can fulfil that sexual energy with. And it’s important to me. If he wasn’t sexually attracted - and never had been - I wouldn’t be taking that very gracefully. Regardless of how ‘princely’ he might be. And I’m a big Prince fan, so that’s saying something.

What’s really keeping you? Fear? Self-esteem? Value friendship and roomie scenario over physical? Financial fear?


----------



## MattMatt

My wife doesn't find me sexually attractive. But after 30+ years, I must be getting something right?


----------



## ScottL

leMiz said:


> I appreciate your thoughtful response.
> 
> But he's been quite clear that he was never really attracted to me. And I don't know if I want to help him forward. He's lied to me, at least by omission, for our entire relationship. I have struggled to be understanding and patient and accepting, and all along he was with me -- he _married _me -- under false pretenses. I don't expect someone else to make me happy. But I've spent my entire adult life on this lie. I can't get those years back. I want someone who wants me the way I've always wanted him, I've always wanted that, and I've made allowances and excuses and told myself not to be selfish and reminded myself to value what we had and all along, all along, he _knew _he was lying to me. For decades. I can't see how to be happy with that.
> 
> For whatever it's worth, we've had the conversations you're talking about. From the beginning. I'm no romantic prize, I'll grant you, but I am emotionally present and responsible. I'm a planner. I've initiated almost every one of those conversations over the years, because I agree, caring alone won't fix things.


You are a romantic prize because you are present and responsible. You see his actions have nothing truly to do with you. He has his own issues. That is why starting on the journey to change the way you think, the way you feel and the way you are is the most important thing you can do. So many people believe they are who they are and they can't really change. You would be amazed at the changes I have seen in people. You can do it. And you will know that you are worthy of being loved fully and you will attract those who will love you fully. I do not know how your relationship will end up. But if you take the same person you are into the next relationship it will turn out similarly. Life is our adventure and when we can see there are greater things for us we can move to a new place. 
Part of this is letting go of the past, not easy because we have been trained to hold on to the past and live in the future. The only change we can make is the one we are actually doing now.


----------



## leMiz

I wanted to post an update of sorts for all the kind people (and the few not-so-kind) who took the time to respond.

So, point 1: I finally asked him to clarify for me how he saw our relationship, what he wanted from it, why on earth he married me, in fact.

He was shocked. Horrified. Tearful, again.

He apparently didn't realize how "I've never been attracted to you" could be heard. Yeah, he does this sometimes -- he's so clear on what _x_ means to him he doesn't realize any other interpretation is possible. Even his therapist shook his head over that one.

He told me he married me because I'm everything to him. He loves me, he treasures me, he thinks I am the finest person he's ever known. He's not with me because he wanted to be with _some_one: it's me, specifically, absolutely.

Grappling with that part. But, it's something he's never said before.

Point 2: While not asexual, he was trying to speak to his profound discomfort with viewing himself as a sexual person. Physical intimacy is so emotionally uncomfortable that the discomfort overcomes any attraction/interest he's feeling. Which fits with the sex-when-drunk phenomenon.

The source of the discomfort is complex and personal, and dates back to his adolescence.

3: He has acknowledged that he should not have kept this from me and explained that for a long while he was relieved by his belief that I was mostly ok with the utter lack of sex, mostly sharing his disinterest. He has additionally acknowledged that his default to selfishness is juvenile and unfair.

He's also realized that physical intimacy is something he wants. He's unsure how to address the discomfort.

4: He is trying. He is working on it. He's seeing his therapist again, taking his meds diligently, raising issues with me as he feels able. It's been several months since we had our second, clarifying talk, and he's been persistent.

That's where things are.

Thank you all so much for responding to me when I was so low, so crushed. It was an amazing thing to reach out, and have absolute strangers respond with encouragement, understanding, the wisdom bought by their own experiences... You were so helpful to me, strangers, and I will always be grateful.

Be well.


----------



## So Married

I just read through all of this, not realizing at first that it was an old thread. I was about to stop, but I scrolled down to see that you had updated. I hope it works out for you. I wish you well.


----------

