# I have to keep this on the down low for 2 weeks.



## Taxman

Yesterday, my daughter's young man came to visit me in my office. That would not be usual, as he lives in a neighboring city about an hour's drive from here. I basically said, I think I know why you are here, but if you would not mind...and he did. He asked for her hand in marriage. Taxman is going to walk his beautiful, and I mean beautiful daughter down the aisle. I give him a ton of credit. She is intimidating. He is an architect. She is a physician. She was the medalist of her class. She has a masters in heart transplants (no use doing anything unless it isthe hardest thing) Her mentor was not pleased when she switched from cardiac surgery to high risk obstetrics. Her and her girlfriends, all physicians will talk shop around the table, while he cooks, (she went out and found a guy who would cook and fix stuff like dad-yay he gets to fix her closet when bars fall down under the weight of masses of clothing) and manages to keep from getting really grossed out. (What the hell is it with women wanting to know the grizzly details, I swear my wife asks all of these gross questions. My son, soon to be son in law, and I retreat to my cave to partake in cigars and to watch body contact sports on TV)

So here is the problem. I know, my wife knows. His folks do not know. He is going to propose in early January. They are going out west to be at her friend's wedding. SIL to be has booked a romantic getaway after the wedding. He will be popping the question there. We can't breathe a word even though we are doing Xmas eve with his folks. Do the words bite your tongue mean anything to you?:grin2:


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## tropicalbeachiwish

Ahhh. . . . . . . that's so sweet! He came to you for your permission. I love some good old fashioned respect. 

Can you keep a secret!?


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## EleGirl

Congratulations! Sounds like you are pleased and excited about this.

Yea, bit your tongue, you are the Cheshire Cat through Christmas. :grin2:


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## Taxman

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> Ahhh. . . . . . . that's so sweet! He came to you for your permission. I love some good old fashioned respect.
> 
> Can you keep a secret!?


I know....and he came to my office. My staff was hanging outside my door, and my business partner, who is an "earth mother" type, just grabbed him and hugged the hell out of him. OMG. OMG. OMG. 

We are going to throw a fun wedding, lots of food and dancing....


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## Diana7

Its nice when young men ask the parents. My son did that with his now wife's parents and they said you DEFINITELY have our permission and blessing. 
Not sure if this has stopped happening much because most couples live together for years first so its rather pointless?


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## Affaircare

I hear ya taxman--my oldest son and DIL are expecting, and they told me right away. They didn't tell anyone else because she's had a few miscarriages and didn't want to say anything until she was 12 weeks. 

Naturally I was SQUEEEEEEEEEEE happy, but her own parents didn't know, my MIL didn't know...so I had to keep it on the downlow for weeks! It drove me batty and when I was with her parents, I had to literally be civil but steer clear because I was afraid I'd spill the beans. 

CONGRATULATIONS and have fun grinning from ear to ear at Christmas!


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## Akfranklin2014

I'm 32 and married my third husband a little over a year ago. (Long stories, don't ask lol.) my current husband is the only one who thought anything about talking to my dad. I already knew what was going on because we'd talked about it, but we got in the car and we drove four hours so he could have the conversation with him in person. My mother passed in 2011 but I know she would've loved him. We've had our issues, no couple is perfect, but that one gesture meant more to me than anything else.


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## introvert

Congrats! He sounds like a real gentleman.

As for women asking for grizzly details, do you mean about medical stuff? I have worked in the medical field for most of my life, and I LOVE to hear about gross stuff and can talk about it at the dinner table, LOL.

Anyway, good luck at biting your tongues over the holidays. I can't wait to hear how everything unfolds!


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## WilliamM

Is he asking you to keep this secret from your daughter?

I suppose the sweet sentiments are nice and all, but keeping secrets about my daughter from my daughter is something I never did, nor would have done. But that's just me, I suppose.


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## Taxman

A little distance helps, plus she is brand new in practice this year, so as the young associate she is covering an awful lot of time during the holidays. It is more that we have been sworn, and I do not break a confidence, especially, she already knows it is about to happen. My girl is my girl. She knew what diamond ring she wanted-she does NOT mess about. She is clear and confident. A little boast, one of her colleagues from her masters days became a client. As I will NEVER really get to see her do her thing, I asked what she is like in the OR. His words, don't mess up. When she operates, she is in charge of the room. She is efficient and clear in her commands. Damn, I will not have a button left on my shirts. The only time I got to see her, as an angel of mercy, on the day my MIL passed away. We were going to visit her and her beau, but the home called and said MIL could not be awakened. I called my daughter and told her what was going on, and she said firmly, "Dad, go to the home, I will be there in the hour." Why? "Dad, just do it." I watched as she stood by her grandma's side, took her vitals, listened to her heart, her beautiful life giving hands never left her grandma. She said in quietest voice, "Her heart has stopped", then, she kissed her. Our girl helped care for her, conferred with the home's physician on pronouncing her, and stayed until the mortuary took her away. If her patients get even a mere fraction of that, wow.


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## manwithnoname

Taxman said:


> A little distance helps, plus she is brand new in practice this year, so as the young associate she is covering an awful lot of time during the holidays. It is more that we have been sworn, and I do not break a confidence, especially, she already knows it is about to happen. My girl is my girl. She knew what diamond ring she wanted-she does NOT mess about. She is clear and confident. A little boast, one of her colleagues from her masters days became a client. As I will NEVER really get to see her do her thing, I asked what she is like in the OR. His words, don't mess up. When she operates, she is in charge of the room. She is efficient and clear in her commands. Damn, I will not have a button left on my shirts. *The only time I got to see her, as an angel of mercy, on the day my MIL passed away. We were going to visit her and her beau, but the home called and said MIL could not be awakened. I called my daughter and told her what was going on, and she said firmly, "Dad, go to the home, I will be there in the hour." Why? "Dad, just do it." I watched as she stood by her grandma's side, took her vitals, listened to her heart, her beautiful life giving hands never left her grandma. She said in quietest voice, "Her heart has stopped", then, she kissed her. Our girl helped care for her, conferred with the home's physician on pronouncing her, and stayed until the mortuary took her away. If her patients get even a mere fraction of that, wow.*


**** Dude.....I got glassy eyed. You must be beaming with pride!


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## Taxman

manwithnoname said:


> **** Dude.....I got glassy eyed. You must be beaming with pride!


Glassy eyes? Hell no, I tear up and weep


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## Satya

That's very wonderful news, @Taxman!
Your daughter sound like a very upstanding young woman. That's testament to you as a parent!


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## GusPolinski

Tell him no blessing without a pre-nup — one that provides equal protection for the both of them.


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## Diana7

GusPolinski said:


> Tell him no blessing without a pre-nup — one that provides equal protection for the both of them.


Not everyone wants a prenup. I would never marry a man who wanted one.


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## SunCMars

Taxman said:


> Yesterday, my daughter's young man came to visit me in my office. That would not be usual, as he lives in a neighboring city about an hour's drive from here. I basically said, I think I know why you are here, but if you would not mind...and he did. He asked for her hand in marriage. Taxman is going to walk his beautiful, and I mean beautiful daughter down the aisle. I give him a ton of credit. She is intimidating. He is an architect. She is a physician. She was the medalist of her class. She has a masters in heart transplants (no use doing anything unless it isthe hardest thing) Her mentor was not pleased when she switched from cardiac surgery to high risk obstetrics. Her and her girlfriends, all physicians will talk shop around the table, while he cooks, (she went out and found a guy who would cook and fix stuff like dad-yay he gets to fix her closet when bars fall down under the weight of masses of clothing) and manages to keep from getting really grossed out. *(What the hell is it with women wanting to know the grizzly details, I swear my wife asks all of these gross questions.* My son, soon to be son in law, and I retreat to my cave to partake in cigars and to watch body contact sports on TV)
> 
> So here is the problem. I know, my wife knows. His folks do not know. He is going to propose in early January. They are going out west to be at her friend's wedding. SIL to be has booked a romantic getaway after the wedding. He will be popping the question there. We can't breathe a word even though we are doing Xmas eve with his folks. Do the words bite your tongue mean anything to you?:grin2:


Taxman...

Yes, it can be taxing. 
Women..... God, I love them more than they deserve!!

They are intensely curious about all the minutiae, the detail, the fluff...
In reality, the foundations of human interaction. That is their power. 

We [men] study how things work, i.e., machines, taxes, spreadsheets, truth tables, mathematics, construction, law, medicine.

Women study people. They study how they are put together.
So, when pissed off, they can dis-assemble them rather quickly.

Have you ever watched a chipmunk deal with life?
They are ever looking, studying their environment, looking for predators and their next meal. They fritter here, scamper there.
Never really comfortable. Never really happy.

Can you blame them, the chipmunks? Every predator wants a piece of them..literally. 

Can you blame women? Every man wants a piece of them....literally.

Those women who have managed to slog through life have [often] adopted the nasty ways of men.
Or they are just luckier than most, finding a nice safe place to rest their bosoms in/on.


SunCMars- still chained to the wall, in the Red Queens dark cellar. That beautiful She, a woman having a man's temperament. Not a flattering combination.


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## MrsHolland

That is very sweet and congrats to all.

Both of my husbands asked for my Dads permission to marry me.


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## Diana7

MY first husband asked my dad, but my second marriage wasn't till I was in my late 40's and my dad had died by then. I wouldn't have expected him to ask for permission when I was that age anyway, with a 25 year marriage behind me, 6 years as a single mum and having been away from home for nearly 30 years. I think I was pretty much able to make my own decisions by then.:surprise:


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## Satya

Diana7 said:


> MY first husband asked my dad, but my second marriage wasn't till I was in my late 40's and my dad had died by then. I wouldn't have expected him to ask for permission when I was that age anyway, with a 25 year marriage behind me, 6 years as a single mum and having been away from home for nearly 30 years. I think I was pretty much able to make my own decisions by then.:surprise:


 @Diana7, I'm sure he asked for @Taxman 's permission out of a sense of propriety, not because he didn't think she was capable of deciding for herself. She seems more than capable of that.

Age aside, some men still do think that it's only right to ask permission of the father. That it's the proper and respectful thing to do when you want to eventually be part of another man's family.


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## Taxman

My future son-in-law is a very traditional and well raised young man. He comes from good people. His mom and dad are divorced, and we have been welcomed with open arms in both their homes. Our girl was quite specific in looking for a life partner. He had to have traditional, even some old fashioned ideas, and part of it, was when the time was right, he would ask for her hand in marriage. We knew that she would have difficulties dating. Many men are intimidated by a woman with her accomplishments. This girl was famous for the one and done dates. Many guys felt they could never compete. She was a valedictorian of her middle school and high school. She made the deans list four years running, on full academic scholarship. She got her masters degree summa cum laude, the degree was conferred by Dr. Jane Goodall. She did medical school, and was the silver medallist of her class. She started off wanting to be a cardiac surgeon, but in her first few weeks, they, as she said, they let her deliver a number of babies. She fell in love with the birthing suite. There was no looking back. Like I said, she is pretty intimidating. On top of everything, she looks like her mom. She is an absolute knockout. When she was a little girl, and I was a student-in-accounts, I would bring her to my office while I worked, she would color at the next desk. Most of my colleagues were single men and women. Several suggested that I buy a rocking chair and a shotgun to let the boys know to look but don't touch. 

The young man is not intimidated. I give him kudos for that. And a little tradition now and then is a good thing.


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## MJJEAN

It's neat how we get different points of view here at TAM. If my most challenging daughter's BF came and "asked for her hand", I'd tell him no. Why? Because she's a cast iron ***** and if he feels he has to ask anyone's permission to do what he plans on doing, he lacks the spine to handle her.


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## Diana7

Satya said:


> @Diana7, I'm sure he asked for @Taxman 's permission out of a sense of propriety, not because he didn't think she was capable of deciding for herself. She seems more than capable of that.
> 
> Age aside, some men still do think that it's only right to ask permission of the father. That it's the proper and respectful thing to do when you want to eventually be part of another man's family.


So what if you are middle aged and have lived away from home for 30 years and he says no? 
I agree that in a first marriage and if you are still quite young, yes. Remember that not so long ago people lived at home till they married and they also married at a much younger age. So basically you were going from under your dad's protection into the husband protection. 
Now most women leave home and are independent way before they marry. They also live with the partner before they marry most of the time as well. They are no longer seen as property. So things are very different.


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## Diana7

Taxman said:


> My future son-in-law is a very traditional and well raised young man. He comes from good people. His mom and dad are divorced, and we have been welcomed with open arms in both their homes. Our girl was quite specific in looking for a life partner. He had to have traditional, even some old fashioned ideas, and part of it, was when the time was right, he would ask for her hand in marriage. We knew that she would have difficulties dating. Many men are intimidated by a woman with her accomplishments. This girl was famous for the one and done dates. Many guys felt they could never compete. She was a valedictorian of her middle school and high school. She made the deans list four years running, on full academic scholarship. She got her masters degree summa cum laude, the degree was conferred by Dr. Jane Goodall. She did medical school, and was the silver medallist of her class. She started off wanting to be a cardiac surgeon, but in her first few weeks, they, as she said, they let her deliver a number of babies. She fell in love with the birthing suite. There was no looking back. Like I said, she is pretty intimidating. On top of everything, she looks like her mom. She is an absolute knockout. When she was a little girl, and I was a student-in-accounts, I would bring her to my office while I worked, she would color at the next desk. Most of my colleagues were single men and women. Several suggested that I buy a rocking chair and a shotgun to let the boys know to look but don't touch.
> 
> The young man is not intimidated. I give him kudos for that. And a little tradition now and then is a good thing.


I always think its odd that anyone would be intimidated by someone else's qualifications. I keep hearing it from women with professional careers as the reason why they haven't met 'the one', but I haven't seen it in real life. I know several good marriages where one spouse has high qualifications and the other doesn't, such as doctors, professors, airline pilots etc, including mine. I have found that while someone may be highly qualified in one area of life, they are often weak in another and visa versa. I have also learnt that intelligence isn't always measured by letters after your name. 
I think its also depends on what way a person is intimidating. My husband has a PHD, is a scientist and researcher in health care. Yet he is the nicest man, had great humility and understands that while he is very intelligent in some areas, such as maths and science, he is less so in others. 

I suppose its hard to prove why someone hasn't met the one, but many such women will blame the fact that men are intimidated which cant be proved. Maybe they have spent so much time working they haven't had time to socialise and meet a man? Then they get to 40 and wonder why they are still alone, and they desperately want children.


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## Taxman

Frankly, I found it rather disgusting that guys could not deal with a female with impressive qualifications. My remarks were that these were not anything near a candidate for a relationship. I too know of a good many marriages where the wife is a highly qualified professional and the husband is a good solid working stiff. I could not hold my tongue and have referred to her earlier dates as wimps. Wet noodles. And not really worthy of the title "Man". She came home in tears when one of her dates left in the middle of dinner, he said that he could not date anyone who would make more money and was "smarter". Real winner that one.

Her fiance has street smarts. She does not. (Which scared me, she trained at an inner city hospital-I drove a taxi to put myself through school, and I knew the hospital's neighborhood like the back of my hand-I insisted that every time she went outside to confines of the hospital, she wore the white coat. I knew that the denizens of the neighborhood would show sufficient respect to a person who keeps them alive. She delivered a good number of their babies, treated a good number for various venereal diseases, so she earned their respect.) Her fiance is good, and loving and is the shoulder strong enough for her to lean on. What else could a father want for his daughter


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## MrsHolland

Diana7 said:


> So what if you are middle aged and have lived away from home for 30 years and he says no?
> I agree that in a first marriage and if you are still quite young, yes. Remember that not so long ago people lived at home till they married and they also married at a much younger age. So basically you were going from under your dad's protection into the husband protection.
> Now most women leave home and are independent way before they marry. They also live with the partner before they marry most of the time as well. They are no longer seen as property. So things are very different.


Property? Too funny. 

I was in my 40's when MrH asked for my hand it had zero to do with being his property. MrH is a gentleman and honors some of the traditional ways such as opening doors for me, walking on the outside to make sure I am away from the road etc. He asked for my hand in marriage out of respect for my dad as dad and I have a beautiful and close relationship. To me it showed that MrH is respectful and a very good man. How someone could turn that into a negative is a reflection on them.


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## Diana7

MrsHolland said:


> Property? Too funny.
> 
> I was in my 40's when MrH asked for my hand it had zero to do with being his property. MrH is a gentleman and honors some of the traditional ways such as opening doors for me, walking on the outside to make sure I am away from the road etc. He asked for my hand in marriage out of respect for my dad as dad and I have a beautiful and close relationship. To me it showed that MrH is respectful and a very good man. How someone could turn that into a negative is a reflection on them.



Thats fine for you, but had my dad still been alive when I married in my late 40's, I would have thought it very strange if my husband had wanted to see my dad. And I am married to a very good, respectful, moral, kind man. 
Had I asked his mum(and why cant mums get asked, my son asked both parents), she would have probably have said no because she tried to break up all of her sons marriages and didn't think anyone was good enough for them. So its not always good or wise to ask parents especially if they are toxic and you are middle aged or older.


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## Diana7

Some men want to provide for their family or be the main provider and there is nothing wrong with that. As long as he is honest up front(as that man was with your daughter) and stops the relationship before its gets serious then why is that bad? Calling them wimps or wet noodles or whatever isn't nice, we are all different and it doesn't mean they are intimidated by the women at all, just that they have different ideas of marriage than you.

Better that he was honest and told your daughter on the first date(which he did) than after many months.
Mind you we didn't talk about earnings/income on the first date, it was a few weeks before I even found out he was a scientist with a PHD. By then I knew he was the one anyway.


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## MrsHolland

Diana7 said:


> Thats fine for you, but had my dad still been alive when I married in my late 40's, I would have thought it very strange if my husband had wanted to see my dad. And I am married to a very good, respectful, moral, kind man.
> Had I asked his mum(and why cant mums get asked, my son asked both parents), she would have probably have said no because she tried to break up all of her sons marriages and didn't think anyone was good enough for them. So its not always good or wise to ask parents especially if they are toxic and you are middle aged or older.


I would not marry someone that had toxic parents or family so it is a moot point for me personally. But yeah if you are marrying into the crazy train then best to not ask them anything and keep lots of space.


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## Diana7

MrsHolland said:


> I would not marry someone that had toxic parents or family so it is a moot point for me personally. But yeah if you are marrying into the crazy train then best to not ask them anything and keep lots of space.


It would have taken far more than one weird family member to put me off such a lovely man. Especially as she lived the other side of the world.


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## Taxman

I found it both humbling and touching that I was shown that great respect. As I am writing this, they are going on their trip. Should be any day now.

Did I say that I am tearing up?


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## Taxman

It's official. They were on vacation, and he proposed in the middle of a frozen lake. She called me, and said, "Dad, have you been keeping secrets from me". I have not stopped tearing up since. I am going to have the worst hangover tomorrow, my beautiful wife and I have killed a bottle of champagne between the two of us, and I have been toasting over facebook with the young man's father, a glass of 12 year old Auchentoshan is my dessert tonight. Damn, a well earned hangover.


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## FieryHairedLady

@Taxman I read thru this last night. Congratulations to you and your wife and your daughter and your son in law! This is exciting news! Hooray! 

You two must be very proud of the young couple. God bless all of you and best wishes for a happy healthy marriage for them!

Let us know how the wedding goes!!


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## Taxman

And don't get me started on my boy. I have great dinner conversations. My son is in the film industry, an editor. An artist and writer. My daughter is the scientist. I shut the hell up, and listen, it is entertaining, sometimes raw, enlightening, and never fails to bring a tear to my eye. The son in law to be, just adds to the mix. Going to throw some really nice parties this year.


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## FieryHairedLady

That is awesome!! Happy for you!


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## Diana7

Taxman said:


> And don't get me started on my boy. I have great dinner conversations. My son is in the film industry, an editor. An artist and writer. My daughter is the scientist. I shut the hell up, and listen, it is entertaining, sometimes raw, enlightening, and never fails to bring a tear to my eye. The son in law to be, just adds to the mix. Going to throw some really nice parties this year.


Its such a blessing to have children we can be proud of isn't it:smile2:.


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