# Just found out about my wife cheating



## poppoppop

So 2 nights ago, I got up in the middle of the night because I couldn't sleep. I found my wife left her computer logged on and I've been suspicious she is cheating, so I looked and sure enough, there were emails between her and another man for about 6 months now.

We live in the West Coast, he lives in the East Coast. I quickly forwarded the emails to myself and then woke her up, confronted her, and made her leave the house. 

We have two small children and have been married almost 11 years. I had feelings something was up for a while because her behavior changed and there was no intimacy anymore, but I chalked it up to having to deal with the kids. I work from home and she works full time and so I'm the one who handles everything with the kids. She is the primary bread winner. 

After kicking her out, I made her come back and stay home with the kids that day and took off. I did some research and found out the guy is married, 10 years older, and has 3 kids. I got his contact info and his wife's. I tried contacting the OM but got no response at first. I contacted his wife to let her know what was going on. I never heard back from her either, but my wife (very angrily) informed me that his wife got my message. 

She asked me what I wanted and I told her I don't know. She says she has fallen out of love with me and that they've only met a few times on business trips and flirted, but the last time, they kissed. I also found out that she has another business trip planned and their emails indicated they were planning on taking it to the next level. The OM actually responded back to me and said that nothing happened and that they had been talking constantly and texting/emailing constantly and that they felt like it was love, but that he's been trying to be objective and has been telling her to go back to me. (What a great guy!)

My wife is saying she loves me, but is not in love anymore. She feels that I have every right to have custody of the kids if we divorce and is worried she will not be able to see the kids. She says she wants to be in love with me, but that she's not anymore and that she feels like I'm more like a brother to her than a lover. She said she thinks the best thing for her would be to stay with me, but she feels like the only reason she would be doing it is for the kids. I told her that we're so fractured now, the kids are going to pick up on it if things are the same as they've been. I asked her if she was in love with this OM and she admitted she was, but claims that even if he were not in the picture, she's been thinking about separation for a while because things have been so awkward. She cancelled the business trip today because she said she knew I would not trust her. 

I have gone back and forth on this and understand now that I contributed to us drifting apart emotionally and even physically, but nothing deserving of this affair. Do I walk away? Do I even try to stay married? In both cases, what do you think I should do?


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## PBear

I don't think anyone here would blame you for choosing either path, but it's still very early to be making permanent decisions. There's a few "after the affair" books that might aid in processing your feelings and making a decision. I don't know for sure which ones are recommended, so just hang on for them to pop up in here.

Do you have someone around you that you can talk to? Are you religious? Would you consider individual or marriage counselling?

C


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## poppoppop

PBear said:


> I don't think anyone here would blame you for choosing either path, but it's still very early to be making permanent decisions. There's a few "after the affair" books that might aid in processing your feelings and making a decision. I don't know for sure which ones are recommended, so just hang on for them to pop up in here.
> *Thanks! I will definitely stay tuned. How long do you think before I should make a decision?*
> 
> Do you have someone around you that you can talk to? Are you religious? Would you consider individual or marriage counselling?
> *Luckily for me, my best friend/best man just happened to move back to the West Coast a few months ago, so he's been someone to lean on. I also am friends with one of her girlfriends, who is in a unique (or maybe not so unique) position of having had the same situation occur about 2 years ago. She has not talked to my wife since this occurred (said she's too mad to talk to her) and has been giving me advice as well. I'm not religious. The topic of counseling came up, but my wife's parents stopped being a couple when she was born and went to counseling and stayed together for more than 10 years after, all the while hating each other. She said she doesn't think counseling will work and is afraid if we stay for the kids, we will end up like her parents - she said her childhood around them was miserable and the day they separated for good was a relief. Should I press counseling as a requirement?
> 
> By the way, her friend and her cheating husband separated and co-parented for 6 months and started hanging out again and now they have been back together for almost a year, but I think they are an anomaly. *


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## PBear

How long? Well, as long as you're both willing to try fixing it, I guess. If she demonstrates that she's remorseful and willing to do what you feel you need her to do to try to heal, and you still have things that you think will help, then you could keep trying. It might be days, it might be weeks, it might be months. That's up to the two of you. It can take years to recover "fully", and your marriage might not ever be what it was originally, though. 

Counselling... Your in-law's counsellor didn't cause those problems. They made decisions along the way that caused those problems. It could be that they got a bad counsellor, and they didn't chose to fire her. It could be that they decided on their own that they would stick together at all costs. But you and your wife are your own people, and you can decide for yourself what will work for you. I do agree that staying together just for the kids is a bad idea.

I'd say your first steps should be to make sure you understand the truth about what happened. You may not need details; that's up to you. But how long, how involved, etc... You can't agree to forgive if you don't know what you're forgiving.

Second step is making sure she accepts that what she did was entirely her decision, and that she's remorseful about making those decisions. It wasn't an accident or mistake. It was a deliberate sequence of decisions and actions that she took, all on her own volition. Until she owns that, there can't be any healing. She should be willing to explain herself to anyone that needs to know; that may include her and your parents. Kind of like the AA approach of apologizing to those that were affected.

You two also need to figure out what went wrong in your marriage. An analogy I've used is that an affair can be like a heart attack. Yes, you need to fix the immediate life threatening crisis (the fallout of the affair). But if you want the patient (marriage) to have a healthy recovery, you need to address the things that lead to the heart attack like bad diet, weight, etc. In a marriage, that may mean spending time dating each other again, working on connecting with each other and communicating, etc. While none of those things are acceptable reasons for her to have had an affair, her decision was likely not made in a vacuum. But she always had the option to end the marriage before seeking someone else, and she didn't do that.

I should say that I'm the one in my marriage who had an affair; as far as I know I've never been cheated on. Just saying that to let you know where I'm coming from.

Good luck. I really hope, for the sake of your family, that you two can recover from this and rebuild your Marriage 2.0. But I would understand completely if you can't. And to be honest, to truly fix the marriage, you (as the betrayed spouse) NEED to be willing to say "nope, this isn't enough" and stand your ground for what you need to heal. If you roll over and let this get swept under the rug, things won't get fixed and she's likely to reoffend. But based on your first post, I don't see that as likely.

C


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## PBear

Btw, you should make an appointment to talk to a lawyer ASAP an understand your rights, responsibilities, and options. What your next steps could be, going down either path (reconciliation, divorce/separation). Protecting yourself and your children has to be a priority. 

One plan I've heard suggested is finding out the "top" divorce lawyers in town, and have meetings with each of them ("top" likely determined by your budget). Once they've heard your story, they can no longer take her as a client. Not sure if this is true, but sounds reasonable. 

You don't say where you're from... You will want to find out soon if infidelity has any impact in your jurisdiction. Getting a signed confession from her now while she's feeling guilty may aid you later if things fall apart. But in many areas, infidelity isn't a consideration, and since they apparently never actually had sex, I'm not sure it would be a factor anyway. That's where talking to a local lawyer is critical ASAP.

C


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## Chaparral

They always say they did not have sex. This almost always turns out to be trickle truth. Your wife is in affair fog. The om just wanted to get laid . You need to talk to his wife and get her take. It would help if he would come clean about not being in love with your wife.

How did he contact your wife after you outed him? Looks like they are still talking to each other.

Make her take a poly.


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## rrrbbbttt

"They only met a few times on Business Trips and flirted and the Last Time they kissed"

Re read that to yourself and ask yourself do I truly believe this from the woman who has been keeping this affair with an OM from me?

The questions that start coming to mind after is this statement that you need answers to: 

They were both away from their respective spouses on several different Business Trips and they only kissed? 

Where were they when they kissed?

In whose room? 

Were you fully clothed? 

Did you fondle each other? 

The questions keep on coming.

If you've read many of the threads the statement of your wife is one of the classic statements of a cheater prior to it being revealed that it was a PA.

Prepare yourself that it was a PA.


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## Will_Kane

If they met up, assume they had sex. UNLESS you saw an email specifically saying "I can't wait to have sex for the first time next time we meet." Otherwise, when it comes to the words coming out of the cheater's mouth, "just kissing" usually means "sex." Even "just kissing" usually involves placing hands on private parts. Adults usually don't just stop at "just kissing," especially ones who are professing how much "in love" they are with each other.

The "in love" feeling, the infatuation feeling, wears off in any relationship after awhile. Rarely does it last three years. The passion can be re-kindled, but it requires willingness and effort. I don't see what you have to lose to give it a try for six months for the sake of the kids. 

If you do give it a try, your wife would have to end all contact with other man. She won't fall back "in love" with you if he still is on her mind. He will be on her mind, if she keeps seeing him, talking to him, thinking about him. So if she wanted to give it a try to make your marriage work, she would have to agree to no contact, which means ZERO, none at all, not even looking him up on the internet, not even looking at his facebook page.

When it comes to the affair, don't believe anything your wife or the other man tells you. Cheaters will lie about the affair, so you should only believe what they say if it is supported by actions or you can verify it. The desire to contact each other, to check up on each other, will be strong. You may need to monitor in order to rebuild trust. A voice-activated recorder in her car can be an effective way to see if they still are in contact; she will be expecting you to snoop her emails and texts, but she won't expect the hidden recorder in her car. It will either help to rebuild your trust or it will completely destroy it.

It is important for you to be confident that you will be OK either way - whether your marriage works out or it doesn't. Start to prepare yourself for the latter. Consult with an attorney to find out what you can expect in a divorce regarding living arrangements, alimony, child support, custody.


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## workindad

They live on opposite ends of the country and met up a few times but only kissed. Read what you wrote again. Does that make sense to you? Sounds like your wife is also ready to leave the kids with you. Not good. 

See a lawyer ASAP. Good move on letting his wife know. 

Get checked for stds the odds that she is trickle truthing are very high. 6 months worth of contact and several meet ups ending with only a kiss. Very hard to believe. 

If you want more information consider a var in her car. Cheap and effective. 

Make strong decisive actions. This is not a time to be weak. Do a 180 and do it now
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## weightlifter

Men are numbers animals so let me give you some odds.

IF they met twice the odds of PIV sex are about 51% IE just north of half
IF they met three times the odds of PIV are about 70%
Four times 85%
Five times 90%
Six 95%
Seven 99%

The I love you but not in love with you speech is bad. Its how cheaters compartmentalize whether or not they got to the full out sex.

Above questions are good let me expand a bit. Ask her:
1) First innocent meeting date
2) First innappropriate meeting date (sexting dirty talk)
3) First kiss?
4) Where kiss? How long was the makeout session?
5) Groping? Under or over clothes? (you can sometimes use this one to get her to admit to more bit by bit)
6) Nudity? Even toplessness (you can sometimes use this one to get her to admit to more bit by bit)
7) Sexting?
8) nude pics?


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## weightlifter

Here is my standard set of instructions on VARs. It will seem a bit stilted as I deleted some of the stuff that does not apply to you.

VARs

Your wife is acting funny. Her phone and email suddenly have passwords you don't know. She shuts down phone apps or changes windows on the computer whenever you enter the room. She is suddenly staying out until 2 to 5 in the morning. She has new single friends. She has lost weight and is dressing hotter to boot. Her ex contacted her 3 weeks ago and she wants “to meet to catch up at some public place” Any of this sound familiar? 

If you are reading this your gut is going crazy. “Relax”, in that there is a high liklihood that you are not crazy at least. “Your gut” is your basic instinct from the caveman period. There is something up with your mate. It is part of your mind built into you and in your DNA. You probably cant sleep. You are losing weight like crazy and are not hungry. Well if you are reading this and that is 90% of you reading this if its your first time... You are embarking on what is probably going to be the worst time of your life.

Chin up, yes I know it is damn near impossible to believe now, but I and the people at TAM here have taken dozens of men through this process. Some reconcile, most dont in the long run so be aware. Most of us hang around this grim grim place for a sense of “pay it forward” and “getting at the truth” Even in divorce, the long run the majority find love again... yes really. Often selecting a far far better future companion. Read poster BFF for a thread of disaster, divorce, recovery, and a new wonderful woman in his life. Younger and hotter, yes, but also one with better boundaries, often a far far better personality match. Oh and they get to go through that first time with her after the first I love you's have been exchanged. Just know, that for the majority, even if the marriage crashes, in six months, a year, maybe two you will wonder how you got so far so fast and how great your new life is. You will also be MUCH MUCH stronger as a person.

Buy 2 sony ICDPX312 voice activated recorders. Best Buy sells them for like 50 bucks. DO NOT BUY THE cheapies. USE LITHIUM batteries. We have examples of 25 hour recordings using them on these sony recorders. My icon IS a Sony ICDPX312. No I do not have stock in nor work for Sony.

Setup instructions are on page 19. Also good stuff on page 31.
Use 44K bit rate for balancing file size vs quality DO NOT USE 8K!!!!! Simply put. The higher the quality the better the sound and 8K sucks. ALSO. The higher the quality the more you can manipulate the mp3 in Audacity.
Set VOR "on" see page 38
See page 40 for adding memory if necessary
Play with it yourself to get familiar. TEST IT OUT 
Turn off the beep feature. Its on one of the menus. You can even play prevent defense by going to a dollar store, buying uber-cheapie earbuds, cut off the buds but put in the jack which will actually disable the speaker for additional protection.

Go to Walmart and buy heavy duty velcro.
This is one item: Velcro Heavy-Duty Hook and Loop Fastener: Office : Walmart.com
also
Purchase VELCRO Hook and Loop Fasteners, Sticky-Back, for less at Walmart.com. Save money. Live better.

Use the velcro to attach the var under her seat UP INSIDE. SECURE IT WELL!!!!!! So well even a big bump wont knock it off. attach one side HD velcro from Walmart to back. USE BIG PIECE
attach other side HD velcro again UP INSIDE car seat. 

ATTACH THE CRAP out of it. It needs to stay put going over big potholes or railroad tracks.
I recommend exporting the sound files to your comp. The recorder is very cumbersome for playback.

Put the second VAR in whatever room she uses to talk in when you are not around. If you are a typical man, use your size advantage to put it someplace she cant reach, even on a chair. Beware spring cleaning season if she does it.

Usual warning. If you hear another man and perhaps a little kissing or... STOP Listening and have a trusted friend listen and tell you what went on. Knowing she is a cheat will kill you. Hearing her moan while another man is inside her will murder you to your very soul!!!!!! You are not strong enough to hear that. Dont try it. I know what I am talking about in this.

If you need clean up the recordings get Audacity. Its free from the internet. I have used it on var work for others here to remove things like engine noise. If needed, I have done var work for three men here. RDMU is the only one who has released some of the confidentiality. Read his second thread for my reliability and confidentiality. NEVER GIVE UP YOUR ELECTRONIC EVIDENCE. They were seen by a PI or something NOT your VAR!!

The ezoom GPS has been found to be easy to buy at Radio shack and useful.

Look for a burner phone. That is often why wives let the husband "see their phone"

Look for apps on her phone like words with friends. It has a non traceable texting feature.
Here is a list 25 Apps to Help You Cheat On Your Girlfriend | Complex


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## sinnister

OP it doesn't seem like the ball is in your court. She says she thinks of you as a brother. What is the benefit of staying married in that type of relationship?


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## harrybrown

Your wife does not respect you or love you. She is in love with the other man. Go see a lawyer. When you give her the divorce papers sometimes that wakes them up. Your wife and OM are the enemy. Do not believe your wife. She is lying to you. Ask her to get tested for stds.


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## Thorburn

What should you do? I believe it is too early to tell. Get your finances in order, get all your accounts together, go see an attorney. Do the 180. Don't believe her.


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## poppoppop

Thank you everyone for your responses. 

In terms of infidelity, to me it doesn't matter much if it was just kissing or fondling or sex. She has been deceptive and I don't believe any of the things she's said. All of them are betrayals of our marriage and none are acceptable. I realize I need to not focus on her and the OM anymore. 

When I contacted the OM's wife, my wife was livid (as if my part was the hurtful part). Since then, she has focused only on consoling the OM. She is not taking a single step toward repairing our marriage. Last night and this morning, she did not even acknowledge me when she walked in (and quickly out) of the room. I think regardless of what I want, I need to protect myself. 

At this point, I'm the one that is going to be doing things behind her back. I'm contacting an attorney today to see what I need to do. I've already contacted the OM's family. However, I think the best course for me is to hold off on telling anyone else until the divorce papers are served and then letting her family know. (She still has a bad relationship with her mom, so will not be talking to her about it anytime soon. I actually talk to her mom more than she does.) I think at that time, I should start letting our mutual friends know as well (she hasn't talked to anyone but the OM about it as far as I know...she's got too much pride to say anything to them.) This way, I can unleash all of these things at the same time and really send the message home that what she did was wrong and to let her deal with all of it at once. 

I've gotten no respect from her. She is the one who did this and I shouldn't be the one fighting to keep our marriage together, but I've come to the realization that that is exactly what I'm doing. You guys are right. If she doesn't show she's fully invested in fixing things, there's no point in pushing her to. There are only two outcomes that will not leave me a broken person at this point. A reconciliation in which she shows she does want to fix things 100%, or a divorce in which I am able to protect myself and my kids (or a combination of those two).


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## Lovemytruck

You have nerves of steel. Kudos. Hope you keep moving forward, and find a decent outcome. Sounds like you will.


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## Healer

They've been alone together on business trips? I would be astonished if they haven't had sex. She is trickle truthing you. There's more to this than you know.


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## Healer

poppoppop said:


> Thank you everyone for your responses.
> 
> In terms of infidelity, to me it doesn't matter much if it was just kissing or fondling or sex. She has been deceptive and I don't believe any of the things she's said. All of them are betrayals of our marriage and none are acceptable. I realize I need to not focus on her and the OM anymore.
> 
> When I contacted the OM's wife, my wife was livid (as if my part was the hurtful part). Since then, she has focused only on consoling the OM. She is not taking a single step toward repairing our marriage. Last night and this morning, she did not even acknowledge me when she walked in (and quickly out) of the room. I think regardless of what I want, I need to protect myself.
> 
> At this point, I'm the one that is going to be doing things behind her back. I'm contacting an attorney today to see what I need to do. I've already contacted the OM's family. However, I think the best course for me is to hold off on telling anyone else until the divorce papers are served and then letting her family know. (She still has a bad relationship with her mom, so will not be talking to her about it anytime soon. I actually talk to her mom more than she does.) I think at that time, I should start letting our mutual friends know as well (she hasn't talked to anyone but the OM about it as far as I know...she's got too much pride to say anything to them.) This way, I can unleash all of these things at the same time and really send the message home that what she did was wrong and to let her deal with all of it at once.
> 
> I've gotten no respect from her. She is the one who did this and I shouldn't be the one fighting to keep our marriage together, but I've come to the realization that that is exactly what I'm doing. You guys are right. If she doesn't show she's fully invested in fixing things, there's no point in pushing her to. There are only two outcomes that will not leave me a broken person at this point. A reconciliation in which she shows she does want to fix things 100%, or a divorce in which I am able to protect myself and my kids (or a combination of those two).


You are handling this very well. Very logical - my hat is off to you. I know you are in pain, a lot of pain. And uncertainty, and bewilderment, and anger. But you are on the right track - stay the course. But but careful not to jump into taking her back if she happens to throw you a bone. Think about what she has said and what she has done. 

Kids are the hardest part - and the fact she has hinted at relinquishing them to you says a LOT about her. Protect yourself and your kids. Please. You can do MUCH better. I've been exactly where you are. 

You're doing great though, my man.


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## Married but Happy

My main takeaway points are that she no longer loves you and was thinking about separation before this affair started. It also struck me as odd that she'd willingly give up custody - that doesn't sound very "normal." She's willing to abandon everything to get away?

For me, those would be enough to end it, but I can't evaluate your situation and the chances that she may fall back in love with you if you both make needed changes. I feel that it would be more likely a superficial thing than real and deep, but that's only IMO.


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## Healer

Married but Happy said:


> I feel that it would be more likely a superficial thing than real and deep, but that's only IMO.


It's one we share.


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## TRy

poppoppop said:


> When I contacted the OM's wife, my wife was livid (as if my part was the hurtful part). Since then, she has focused only on consoling the OM. She is not taking a single step toward repairing our marriage.


 That says it all right there. She and the other man are the couple. There is no marraige to be saved.


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## Dyokemm

You are doing well.

Make sure to let OMW know that the affair is continuing and that you will be filing for D. That way this lady is prepared for the full court press your foggy WW will probably put on the POS to D too and be with her.

If OMW puts this POS on the spot, there's a good chance he will throw your WW under the bus to save his own a** and M.

Getting dumped by two guys at once may wake your foolish W up from the fog her head is in right now. Maybe then, you could see R with her.

Until she gets out of the fog though, I would proceed with the D.


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## OnTheRocks

Married but Happy said:


> My main takeaway points are that *she no longer loves you and was thinking about separation before this affair started. *It also struck me as odd that she'd willingly give up custody - that doesn't sound very "normal." She's willing to abandon everything to get away?
> 
> For me, those would be enough to end it, but I can't evaluate your situation and the chances that she may fall back in love with you if you both make needed changes. I feel that it would be more likely a superficial thing than real and deep, but that's only IMO.


QFT, and they all say that after they've been caught.


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## Dyokemm

OnTheRocks,

Yeah...its funny how their epiphany magically coincides with your confrontation.

But expressing this problem/feeling never occurred to them in all the time leading up to them turning into dirtbags.


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## life101

Sorry you are here.

1. You might want to file for divorce.

2. You might want to protect your finances.

3. Always keep a VAR on you so that she cannot accuse you of abusing her, keep your calm, and record her confession as much as you can.

4. Once a cheater, always a cheater. A cheater will only stay in a relationship if there is no suitable outside option available. They just don't get reformed overnight by the intervention of some magical divine light. Nature doesn't progress in jumps.

5. Happiness is a cheating spouse on the rearview mirror. A cheater is not worth a decent person's time and effort. Do you want to live a life of constant surveillance, always wondering what she is up to? Why? Why is she such a catch?

Good luck.


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## MattMatt

They only kissed, she loves you but she is not in love with you, it's all your fault because you yada, yada, yada, the OM is going to leave his wife as they haven't had sex since 1996, etc, etc, etc. 

That is the affair fog effect.

Right. Wake your wife up.

Have STD and HIV tests done and ask for paternity tests on your children. 

The latter is not to test paternity (though sometimes it does) in your case it is a way of letting her know that you can no longer trust anything about her from the early days of your relationship.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aug

poppoppop said:


> We have two small children and have been married almost 11 years. I had feelings something was up for a while because her behavior changed and there was no intimacy anymore, but I chalked it up to having to deal with the kids. I work from home and she works full time and so I'*m the one who handles everything with the kids. She is the primary bread winner.*
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> I have gone back and forth on this and understand now that I contributed to us drifting apart emotionally and even physically, but nothing deserving of this affair. Do I walk away? Do I even try to stay married? In both cases,* what do you think I should do?*



Find a lawyer. File for divorce. Dont move out of the house.

Seek full custody of the kids. Seek spousal support.


Doing all this may wake her up but I doubt it. Start the ball rolling. It takes months before finalization. During that time consider your options: reconciliation or divorce.

They had sex. She has bonded with him; that's why she's consoling him. That's why she doesnt care about you like she does him.

Let her go.


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## alte Dame

She is following the script to the letter. Try not to take the 'not in love with you for a long time' declaration for the truth. People who cheat typically rewrite everything to make what they are doing seem not just palatable, but noble.

I would go ahead with the divorce and then see how things develop. Outing them to the OMW was the best thing you could have done. The effects of that could be profound and you don't yet know what they will be. Typically, the OM will come to Jesus regarding his family and disavow his AP. You can't know exactly what's going on in his house, so it may take some time before you understand whether he's thrown your WW or his BW under the bus.


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## carmen ohio

poppoppop said:


> . . . I work from home and she works full time and so *I'm the one who handles everything with the kids. She is the primary bread winner* . . .
> 
> My wife is saying she loves me, but is not in love anymore . . . She says she wants to be in love with me, but that she's not anymore and that she feels like I'm more like a brother to her than a lover . . . I asked her if she was in love with this OM and she admitted she was, but claims that even if he were not in the picture, she's been thinking about separation for a while because things have been so awkward . . .


Dear poppoppop.

You are getting good advice and you seem to have a handle on how to deal with your immediate problem.

So let me raise another, longer term issue that you need to think about. You describe yourself as a SAHD who is largely dependent on your WW financially. While there is nothing wrong with this situation in theory, in fact it is likely to have played a part in the demise of your WW's feelings for you.

I won't give you a lecture on this but I will note that we are all the product of millions of years of evolution and that, as a species, we are hardwired to have certain feelings. As a result, woman tend to be more attracted to men who display certain traits and child rearing and financial dependency are not on the list.

Whether you decide to try to reconcile or not with your WW, you need to rethink your lifestyle choice. If you divorce, when you start dating again, you will not want to have to tell prospective paramours that you are a SAHD who depends on your ex for sustenance.

My advice would be, when the dust settles a bit, to start looking for employment opportunities that up your earning potential.

Also, read "Married Man Sex Life Primer" by Athol Kay. It is a how-to manual on attracting and keeping the interest of desirable woman. Every man should read it.

Wishing you and your family the best possible outcome in this difficult situation.


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## Wolf359

This is a strange one, Mothers do not usually let their kids go so easy!!! I think she may be sick or, doing drugs. It's just very odd to hear that from a woman with kids. She does not care at all about them. She must have had a very bad time as a child, and it messed her up. You know, later in life, she will regret this. *If it was me*, I do not know if I could let her go without at least trying to get her some help. I do know that my life would be over with her, as the marriage would be done." Please I would not trust her at all with the kids, after what she said".


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## MattMatt

sinnister said:


> OP it doesn't seem like the ball is in your court. She says she thinks of you as a brother. What is the benefit of staying married in that type f relationship?


Ask her this question: "Would she lie to her brother? Cheat him?"

If the answer is "no" then she clearly does not "love you like a brother."


----------



## Shaggy

You should let the OMW know that they are still in contact and planning to meet up. He's no doubt told his wife it was nothing but you bring crazy,

Fix that misconception.


----------



## ironman

popp,

A woman acting the way you describe your wife ... definitely has been having sex with the OM (99% chance) ... for a while now, too. But it sounds like her lies and deception are enough of a deal breaker for you. Good for you, standing up for yourself. Your mindset is far ahead of where many betrayed spouses are when they first come here.

Now just follow through with actions. Although, I don't think you'll need much advice .. you seem very level-headed, her loss.


----------



## ironman

Oh, and listen to Shaggy ... try contacting the OW again to let her know how as soon as you contacted her the first time .. the OM was in contact with your wife.

In fact, if I were you I'd go nuclear right now ... let everyone know. Crash her fantasy. It's the only way you'll know if there is a shot of reconciliation .. if you even want to bother (my 2 cents .. i wouldn't bother).

Good luck in whatever you choose to do.


----------



## weightlifter

Op. how many conferences have they had together?


----------



## 6301

I love that phrase. "I love you but I don't love you". It's like saying "I'm hungry but I'm not hungry". You either want to eat something or you don't. I think it's a piss poor way of getting out from under the knife. If she says I love you but don't love you, I would go on the assumption that she doesn't. So if she doesn't love you then she should find another place to live. Nothing like trying to have it both ways huh?


----------



## BashfulB

6301 said:


> I love that phrase. "I love you but I don't love you". It's like saying "I'm hungry but I'm not hungry". You either want to eat something or you don't. I think it's a piss poor way of getting out from under the knife. If she says I love you but don't love you, I would go on the assumption that she doesn't. So if she doesn't love you then she should find another place to live. Nothing like trying to have it both ways huh?


It is a chicken sh!t coward's excuse. Cheaters, at heir core are cowards, either by birth or choice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TRy

6301 said:


> I love that phrase. "I love you but I don't love you". It's like saying "I'm hungry but I'm not hungry".


 The correct phrase is "I love you, but I am not in love with you". There is a difference between "loving" someone and "being in love". I love my children, but I am not in love with my children. Sometimes cheater's actually say, "I think of you more like a brother/sister". They are telling you that you have been friend zoned and that they are no longer romantically interested in you. Bottom line, they are focusing their romantic attention elsewhere. Cheaters often tell you this just before their emotional affair (EA) becomes a physical affair (PA), because they rationalize to themselves that since they have now told you that the two of you are no longer a romantic couple, it is no longer really cheating to have sex with their affair partner.

I am not saying that I agree with this thinking. Just telling what they are really saying so that people can better understand what is going on.


----------



## 6301

TRy said:


> The correct phrase is "I love you, but I am not in love with you". There is a difference between "loving" someone and "being in love". I love my children, but I am not in love with my children. Sometimes cheater's actually say, "I think of you more like a brother/sister". They are telling you that you have been friend zoned and that they are no longer romantically interested in you. Bottom line, they are focusing their romantic attention elsewhere. Cheaters often tell you this just before their emotional affair (EA) becomes a physical affair (PA), because they rationalize to themselves that since they have now told you that the two of you are no longer a romantic couple, it is no longer really cheating to have sex with their affair partner.
> 
> I am not saying that I agree with this thinking. Just telling what they are really saying so that people can better understand what is going on.


 Six of one, half dozen of the other. She's fooling around on the guy and IMO it doesn't matter if she loves me or doesn't or she loves me but not in love with me. When you get hit with that, it's time for someone to leave...............her. Be damned if they try to leave you hanging with hope that maybe I'll return and you can kiss my feet to show your appreciation.


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## poppoppop

Hey everyone...OP here. I really want to thank you all for your heartfelt and honest replies. I did believe they had sex because a few months ago she bought all this new sexy underwear and made a big deal of it. But when I did laundry, I never saw it. I realized each business trip, the underwear would be in the hamper. Instead of accusing her of this, I told her I needed her to be brutally honest because I knew "everything...and I mean EVERYthing." You guys were all correct. She quickly confessed. Yesterday, I was out with the kids and being active to get it off my mind. It really did seem far removed as I was enjoying my day, but I suddenly had a panic attack. I actually thought it might be a stroke or heart attack. It lasted almost 3 hours. Super rapid heartbeat, wheezing, and numb arms. My friend assured me it was a panic attack and to just sit, but it really lasted 3 hours. That's when I decided to confront her about the truth. When she got home, I told her about the panic attack and said I couldn't be a good parent if I was dealing with panic attacks so I told her she had to move out. I said I would stay with friends this weekend and by Monday she had to be out. She asked if she could have more time. I stood my ground and said no, dont come home Monday. She told me the OM's wife got my message at the breakfast table with her 3 kids and just started screaming, so even his kids know about it. (I did want to spare his kids, but felt the wife deserved to know.). I told her for the time being, she could see the kids on the weekend only unless she made a request and I said yes. I told her that I reread the emails and told her to do the same and she would notice her emails would be along the lines of "I miss you, can't wait to see you". The OM's emails replies would be sexual innuendo. I said, he's out for sex only and fooled you. I also showed her a picture of her 2 days after our 1st child was born and said that I kept that picture out be because I thought it was one of the most beautiful pictures of her (she is full of hormones in the picture and her face is swollen). She has said repeatedly that she hates the picture and wishes I would put it away. I told her, would you think to show this to him? Do you think he'd love if you looked like this all the time? I told her, that is real love and that is what she has ruined, then I walked out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Vanguard

OP you are a god among men.


----------



## Vanguard

poppoppop said:


> Hey everyone...OP here. I really want to thank you all for your heartfelt and honest replies. I did believe they had sex because a few months ago she bought all this new sexy underwear and made a big deal of it. But when I did laundry, I never saw it. I realized each business trip, the underwear would be in the hamper. Instead of accusing her of this, I told her I needed her to be brutally honest because I knew "everything...and I mean EVERYthing." You guys were all correct. She quickly confessed. Yesterday, I was out with the kids and being active to get it off my mind. It really did seem far removed as I was enjoying my day, but I suddenly had a panic attack. I actually thought it might be a stroke or heart attack. It lasted almost 3 hours. Super rapid heartbeat, wheezing, and numb arms. My friend assured me it was a panic attack and to just sit, but it really lasted 3 hours. That's when I decided to confront her about the truth. When she got home, I told her about the panic attack and said I couldn't be a good parent if I was dealing with panic attacks so I told her she had to move out. I said I would stay with friends this weekend and by Monday she had to be out. She asked if she could have more time. I stood my ground and said no, dont come home Monday. She told me the OM's wife got my message at the breakfast table with her 3 kids and just started screaming, so even his kids know about it. (I did want to spare his kids, but felt the wife deserved to know.). I told her for the time being, she could see the kids on the weekend only unless she made a request and I said yes. I told her that I reread the emails and told her to do the same and she would notice her emails would be along the lines of "I miss you, can't wait to see you". The OM's emails replies would be sexual innuendo. I said, he's out for sex only and fooled you. I also showed her a picture of her 2 days after our 1st child was born and said that I kept that picture out be because I thought it was one of the most beautiful pictures of her (she is full of hormones in the picture and her face is swollen). She has said repeatedly that she hates the picture and wishes I would put it away. I told her, would you think to show this to him? Do you think he'd love if you looked like this all the time? I told her, that is real love and that is what she has ruined, then I walked out.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good for you man. I'm so, so sorry you're going through this. But I'm so glad that you were given this set of cards to deal with it. You really do have the upper hand here, and when she's an old woman she will remember that moment with you and the picture. 

Think about it... when she's old, ugly and rotting in a nursing home, what is she going to be thinking about? The times with the OM? Or the husband and children she betrayed, the ones who loved her most? It's her price to pay.


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## Chaparral

She just fell for another player, a horny goof with a line that gets lucky once in awhile when he can find a woman gullible or drunk enough to be impressed.


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## MattMatt

> *She told me the OM's wife got my message at the breakfast table with her 3 kids and just started screaming, so even his kids know about it.*


Remind your wife that there are two people responsible for the hurt on the OMW, her kids and your kids. 

Then point out that it's a very short list, as it excludes you and the OMW.

Put him on Cheaterville.

Do you want your marriage salvaged? Or no? Either way is doable, it depends on what you want.


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## Chaparral

I hope you made it clear it was her and her boyfriend all by themselves that have effed up two families.

Print this off and give it to her. This was posted before I came to TAM by another poster

* Default Re: Any former players/womanizers here on Tams? 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Findingmyway was a player, I don't know if he comes on here much now, but he did leave a point of view thread although I can't find it. He posted something similar to me, here it is.:
***********************************************

My perspective- as a serial cheat. Before I start, I'm no GQ model look alike and I'm not wealthy.

For me, it was always about extra sex. The thrill of the chase and ego boost was a plus, but I just wanted more sex than my wife did. I always loved my wife and certainly never ever wanted to leave her or lose her. Especially not over someone else's wayward wife.

I had a simple method. I used it because it worked. I targeted married women. I figured they were safer for several important reasons.
1- Less likely to be sleeping around with random guys (STDs).
2- Less likely to pull the crazy girlfriend BS and call my wife.
3- In case of an unwanted pregnancy, I had a built in schmuck to pay the tab and would have claimed to have had a vasectomy.

The most important part of being a player is to hide it. I started with shy looks making certain I'd get caught and then doing my best to look embarrassed. If she started to come around more or dress sexier then I'd try a safe compliment. If she called me on my BS (yes, it happened) I simply acted highly offended. After all, I'm a married family man. That usually got me an apology. A few really smart ones just avoided me altogether.

If she accepted the compliment, I knew I had a chance. I never ever wasted time with someone that I didn't want to bed. If the compliment was successful, I simply followed with more as time permitted and just let things develop. Who knew where it would go? When she would speak with me about her frustrations with her husband (they always complained about their husband) I used that to my advantage. If they complained that he didn't do enough with the kids, I was dad of the year. If he didn't help out around the house, I did everything at home so my wife didn't have to. Yes, it was complete BS, but so what. My job was to make them feel special, pretty and needed and to paint the fantasy. After all, my goal was not conversation or friendship. I wanted to score.

Once things progressed and I had to keep it intense unless it was simply a once and done kind of thing. I would do that by pushing her boundaries for sex. Anal, public hook-up whatever. Keep in mind, I'm in it for the sex so I tried for everything I liked and heard more than once statements like... I never even let my husband do that. That was usually with anal, but sometimes public hook-ups also.

I certainly didn't want to be paying for hotel rooms out my pocket. If she wanted to pay, that was fine. Otherwise, we could hook-up anywhere, it didn't matter to me.

I always advised them to keep the secret between us, because it was so special. Actually, I didn't want to get busted. If they got busted, and some did. That was their tough crap to deal with. I certainly never vowed to love/honor/cherish them.

As I look back, I'm stunned at how easy it was and how many fell for my crap. I had some that would try to pull away and I'd feed them the star crossed lovers BS, you know... kept apart by the cruel hand of fate. That worked like magic to seal the deal. I also used things like I think my wife may have cheated on me. Then I'd work in how I got tested for STDs and it was clear and somehow manage to mention my vasectomy (never had one). Understand? I'm safe, you won't catch anything if you sleep with me and I won't get you pregnant. That was the message.

The one thing that sent me running was the fear of getting caught and sometimes I just wanted a quick bang and wasn't in it for a couple of months of an affair. I'm still also amazed by how many didn't see through my crap either. They didn't have to deal with the day to day stresses that adults face with me (finances, mortgages, car payments, child care, time commitments, etc.). With me, it was just fun and sex. The poor bastard at home didn't have a chance once the play was in motion. It also helped me to see him as a douche-bag when his wife whined about him for whatever reason.

I work with a woman that has lost everything over an affair with me. The house, husband, family, etc. It's difficult to see. She hates me now, but I never vowed anything to her or forced her to do anything. That's her tough crap. Her kids are in therapy, their grades tanked and she's struggling financially and the kids blame her, etc. Honestly, I wish she'd quit so I didn't have to see her every freaking day.


I do know a few like me that I consider even worse. They brag and laugh about getting wayward wives to do things and try to get email or text proof to show off. It's pretty easy, just tell her how much he liked doing X with her last night and let her respond. Then they had proof to brag about and trade notes. I didn't do that. I just wanted the sex and avoided the women they talked about. I liked to find the ones who would seem to be the last to ever do anything like this. Goes back to my 3 reasons.

I never flirted with a married woman unless I wanted in her pants. Plain and simple, you do have to hide it so they don't see it coming, but it's really that basic. Other players use different methods, but we all use what works and modify sometimes if we're not progressing to try a different angle. Not all women are the same, and sometimes deviations are required if she'll let you in her pants.

It was never about love, just sex. I sold the fantasy, yes. But that is all it ever was. A fair trade. They were adults and quite frankly should have known better. Am I a predator, I certainly never thought so and I certainly never thought about what would happen to them when we were done. Yes, all my affairs ended. Most stayed married to their H they *****ed about and screwed around on. Therefore, he must not have been that bad. People just get caught up with unrealistic expectations on life I think. For goodness sake, Prince charming is only charming because he wants a blow job.

Before I close, I'll say this as well. An engaged woman would have worked for me also, but I never found one that would go for me. Also, newly married women are much harder to get. I had the best luck with women who had been married for at least several years, throw a kid or two in the mix and they were usually more susceptible to being chased.

It was a fair trade. Attention and compliments for sex.
findingmyway is offline Forward Message*

Stupid is as stupid does


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## warlock07

Confirm the physical affair to the wife.



> The OM actually responded back to me and said that nothing happened and that they had been talking constantly and texting/emailing constantly and that they felt like it was love, but that he's been trying to be objective and has been telling her to go back to me. (What a great guy!)


Hope his wife destroys him in a divorce


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## BashfulB

You did good man. I sorry you have to deal with all of this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThePheonix

TRy said:


> The correct phrase is "I love you, but I am not in love with you". There is a difference between "loving" someone and "being in love". I love my children, but I am not in love with my children.


You're right. What it really means is, "I love you but you just don't turn me on anymore."
I think a lot of the problem with betrayed men is that they believe the other man stepped in and stole her affections and they get the ILYBINILWY speech. They feel if they can just get rid of the other man, things will go back to the way were. It's actually the other way around. She fell out of being "in love" with you long before the other man came along. He is filling a void in her life.


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## MattMatt

wolf359 said:


> This is a strange one, Mothers do not usually let their kids go so easy!!! I think she may be sick or, doing drugs. It's just very odd to hear that from a woman with kids. She does not care at all about them. She must have had a very bad time as a child, and it messed her up. You know, later in life, she will regret this. *If it was me*, I do not know if I could let her go without at least trying to get her some help. I do know that my life would be over with her, as the marriage would be done." Please I would not trust her at all with the kids, after what she said".


There are some people on TAM who have reported that their mother did, indeed, abandon their children to go with "the man of their dreams."

It's not as uncommon as we might like to think, or hope.


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## happyman64

Pop pop

Keep being you.

Calm, cool and dispassionate.

You are handling your wife the right way.

Keep showing her consequences and continue to expose the affair.

It is exposure that will end their affair.

HM


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## Shaggy

Please collect her nice underwear and either burn it, or cut them up.

And followup by confirming to the OMW tat she's confessed sex.

And post OM up on cheaterville.com

This isn't the time to be taking prisoners or negotiating, it's the time to shout the truth and deal out consequences.


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## Dyokemm

ThePhoenix,

I think you are 100% correct on how and why this crap happens.

The disconnect/void is there long before the POSOM/OW.

The problem with WS is that they do not have the morals or empathy for others to avoid turning into a scummy person.

After all, the void/disconnect has to exist for both spouses because it is a factor of the M itself. Yet the BS doesn't go off and try to fill that void with some trashy AP. (unless were dealing with a madhatters situation where both partners are waywards, and those screwed up situations are disasters that just need to end ASAP).


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## Shaggy

Btw, my suggestions focus on the om because all that comes his way is due to your wife, so going after him helps break up,the affair and gives her consequences.

His trouble is due to her choices.


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## Dyokemm

Shaggy,

I agree with you.

I also am of the sentiment that it is never enough to just deal severely with the WS.

The trashy AP deserves any and all consequences the BS can heap on their head.

This person is a f***ing stranger who came in and helped destroy your and your kids lives without you ever doing a single wrong to them.

To h**l with them. Ruin them in any way possible.


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## poppoppop

Hi everyone...OP again. Something new everyday. So I talked to my older kid (age 6) who called me today and wanted to talk to me. She is usually very chatty and exciteable. Today she was very quiet and reserved and took long pauses between speaking. My heart was broken.

I was having lunch with a friend (who is putting me up for the night...here's to good friends) and in the middle of lunch, I checked my email. Guess what? Some of my emails had gone missing! They were not in my trash folder either. I sent my wife a text asking if she had deleted any of my emails. Her reply: "When?" 

My reply: "ANYTIME?" She said, yes, I deleted the emails you forwarded to yourself. So, my friend say that if its a Yahoo account, they will restore emails deleted within 7 days! So I requested my emails be restored and changed all my passwords. Tomorrow, I go home after a weekend spent with supportive friends (I can't eat anymore steak!)

I'm going to let her know it didn't even work and that if she intends to be a good co-parent, she needs to stop all this deception. It's obvious to me that she is still doing what she has been for months...trying to hide her tracks...even the ones that have already been discovered. 

By the way, someone asked earlier how many trips they've both been on. Since this started she's been on a ton of trips, but I can only confirm he's been on 3 of them. Although, it's possible it was up to 5. Also, to clear up my first post regarding custody. She didn't actually say she relinquishes custody, but said that she felt the kids and I should stay in the house no matter what. She said her staying in the house is up to me. She said she would like to be able to stay on the weekends. I know this is going to sound like me conceding, but I do want her to be in their lives. I am still only letting her stay on weekends, but I don't want my kids to feel like something is missing. I would be open to her helping on a daily basis, but not anytime soon. One of the main reasons I am mad about this is because it woke me up to how little she has paid attention to the kids as well all these months. She comes home and goes to the bedroom to try on outfits for hours, hides behind the computer and her cell phone instead of interacting with them. That was time thinking about looking good for the OM and emailing/texting/calling him. It made me aware that the OM had become more important than the kids too! It wasn't just me she left behind...she ignored the kids for months. I look back and think of how many times I sat on the floor in front of her playing with the kids while she was sitting on the couch emailing this guy on her computer or texting him on her phone. I told her she had neglected the kids too all these months when we last spoke last Friday as well...and when I said it, she began crying and said she didn't realize she had done that, but now that I brought it to her attention, she agreed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dyokemm

Neglecting her kids, breaking up their family, and ruining your relationship...all for the butterfly feelings with a complete POS who will cheat on his spouse (as proven by their affair).

The stupidity of cheaters never ceases to amaze me.


----------



## Dyokemm

OP,

Have you scheduled STD tests since she now has admitted the PA?

And make sure to tell her to do the same since this POS is a proven cheater. Remind her she can't be sure he's not banging other women in addition to her since he obviously doesn't care about his BW.

Cheaters hate the idea that their scumbag AP might be cheating on them as well.


----------



## poppoppop

OP again...by the way, i just want to reiterate all of those who have taken time out to respond and give advice to a total stranger. You've all brought me a lot of comfort knowing that others have been here and can relate at a time I feel very alone. 

Honestly, we haven't had sex in such a long time, I don't think the tests are necessary yet. It's almost been a year and her job only started in February. True, she could have been cheating before, but she was still interested back in February when she last tried to have sex with me. In actuality, it's been almost a year that we've actually had sex. I realize now that when I say I contributed to the marriage failing (but bear no responsibility for the affair) the part I played is that I have hang ups about sex. Child birth was very difficult on my wife and she wanted me to be there to watch the whole thing. After, I know I withdrew from her and it never got back to how it was before. If it was bad, we stopped for a while then tried again. Anytime it was bad, we stopped again for a while. After she had surgery in December, I kept thinking she needed lots of time to recover, but now I know it was an excuse because of the fear I had of her child birthing experience. It terrified me that I would hurt her (the first time after childbirth was very painful for her and it was about 6 months after the baby). 

At this point, all the deception she is piling on makes me think this is over. There hasn't been one attempt to comfort me or make me think she wants to be with me. If at some point we reconcile, yes I will require it be done. 

Also, I'm now concerned about one other issue. The OM wife did not reply to my message, but she friend requested me on Facebook. I am suspicious of this because she didn't write anything back. I'm afraid it's the OM with access to her account. Additionally, I'm concerned about contacting the OM wife again because I don't want to fan the flames. I'm concerned about the possibility of a civil suit against my wife which would affect the finances of my kids and myself. My wife could get fired too because these geniuses used their work email and I remember another employee at her work getting fired a while back for this very reason. Yes, losing her job would make things come crashing down on her, but it would also affect my kids finances. 

Also, a previous poster responded regarding my wife losing respect for me because I was not working. I completely agree that contributed greatly to her loss of respect. I do work but I work from home. My job requires I sometimes go at the drop of a hat, so if I have the kids, I have to give that paycheck to someone else instead of taking the job. I do still make money and could make enough to support the household if I did it full time, but we agreed when we had kids, one of us would stay home until they were in school. My youngest starts preschool next month, so that was when I was supposed to go back full time. I allowed her to work instead of me because she is very ambitious and landed a job at a really good company. It was really important to her to have a career she was proud of, so i supported it, even though I wanted to work too. She started getting promoted a few years ago, so I pushed back going to work. We bought a bigger house to accommodate a growing family, but that meant no more child care to save money. I would love to continue the plan for me to go back to work full time, but because it now seems like an impending divorce, I have been applying for jobs this week that pay about half of what I could make and that I'm over qualified for because if its me with the kids all weekdays, I'm going to have to get a job that will require a more defined work schedule (9-5) so I can have child care in place and still pay expenses. But I have to consider what is best for the kids, even if that means a career that is different from the one I want.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## poppoppop

Dyokemm said:


> ThePhoenix,
> 
> I think you are 100% correct on how and why this crap happens.
> 
> The disconnect/void is there long before the POSOM/OW.
> 
> The problem with WS is that they do not have the morals or empathy for others to avoid turning into a scummy person.
> 
> After all, the void/disconnect has to exist for both spouses because it is a factor of the M itself. Yet the BS doesn't go off and try to fill that void with some trashy AP. (unless were dealing with a madhatters situation where both partners are waywards, and those screwed up situations are disasters that just need to end ASAP).


I agree with you regarding the void/disconnect. I always made excuses for it (kids, being tired, too busy) but looking back, it is apparent. You are right, the big difference is that I would not cheat or allow myself to consider cheating. Everyone falls in and out of love in the course of a marriage. It's what you do to keep your focus on your significant other that allows the marriage to last. For better or for worse. 

A few weeks ago I was at the grocery store with my kids and had take off my wedding ring because my finger was swollen. A cute young girl came up and struck up a conversation with me about my kids. She then nervously asked if I was divorced or a widow. I told her my wife works and I'm at home with the kids. She said she noticed no ring. She said that's too bad. When I asked what she meant she said I must have been married for a while to not know when someone was picking up on me. Flattered...yes! Super flattered...but would I have pursued it even though my wife and I were not connecting? No way. That's the difference between a cheater and someone who is faithful.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Headspin

Okay my friend you've done brilliantly in dealing with this but what you've done is _emotional response hard line reaction_ OM/OM wife etc and well done 

Having done that, and you've almost certainly closed the door on any reconciliation you now have to look at things in a very different way 

I will be your warning light beacon going off rather loudly and brightly 



poppoppop said:


> ..... She said, yes, I deleted the emails you forwarded to yourself. So, my friend say that if its a Yahoo account, they will restore emails deleted within 7 days! So I requested my emails be restored and changed all my passwords. .............
> 
> ..... if she intends to be a good co-parent, she needs to stop all this deception. It's obvious to me that she is still doing what she has been for months...trying to hide her tracks...even the ones that have already been discovered.
> 
> ..... Also, to clear up my first post regarding custody. She didn't actually say she relinquishes custody, but said that she felt the kids and I should stay in the house no matter what. She said her staying in the house is up to me. She said she would like to be able to stay on the weekends. I know this is going to sound like me conceding, but I do want her to be in their lives. I am still only letting her stay on weekends, but I don't want my kids to feel like something is missing. I would be open to her helping on a daily basis, but not anytime soon.


These responses (letting her stay at the house) are huge calamitous mistakes. I am a year and half down the line from the exact position where you are now.

There are some big things you need to understand now 

Her deletion of your evidence, even if you can restore it, is telling you she will fight you about every bit of this. She is already got her mind into 'he has no proof ' mode already thinking about the future when the blame comes. How will you prove it all with no evidence? This will also tell you she intends blaming you for the whole thing - to all and sundry.

You have to think about the future particularity in relation to the kids and to the finances house etc etc especially the moment she gets legal advice because when she does your letting her stay, have a foothold in the house will become an entirely different matter

Here's the most important bit of advice you can get 

What she is saying now about kids possessions etc WILL change the moment other things come into view EXPECT this. She's "okay" about the arrangements now as throughout your marriage you shown how capable you are as a househusband ( like I was /am). Well after taking legal advice filling her in about her financial prospect she will decide to challenge all that at some point. SHE WILL. Her saying it's up to you for her to stay she will absolutely deny later on when the legal fight starts

You WILL start to see a very different person to the one you thought you would spend the rest of your days with when money comes into it.

You let her stay 'officially ' in the house and I can guarantee you that later you will never get her out and you will, and your kids live to regret it when you have to sell it even if you can afford to keep it

Yes you are "conceding" 
Do not let her stay at weekends 
do not let her have daily interaction 
fix up a definitive official schedule that keeps her away from the house but gives her agreed access custody times 
You have to accept that in these situations the kids will be "missing something" it's part of what this does to a family ( not of course that she considered that whilst fking around on on her trips as she ripped your lives to shreds!)
Your kids will grow up fast and it's heartbreaking but once you 'get that' you will of course be the brilliant dad you've alwys been and keep on looking out for them nomatter what all this throws at them 
Be under no illusions this will get nasty, the kids will get used 

I know you will not want to think about these things now my friend but believe me decisions you make today about this based on emotional responses will come back and bite your arse. You will feel the need 'to be fair' because you still love her but she's checked out and frankly you will not get the same consideration from her once the serious 'aftermath shvt' starts

Try to be mentally 'dark' think about where you want to be in terms of the kids access custody the house in a years time

Again you've done so well pop ....so don't let your heart now go and undo all that you are fighting for 
Best of luck


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## Simon Phoenix

I really don't think that I could write anything that isn't any different from what the others have but I'll try. All I can say after reading this is that the safest play you have is to see an attorney. As in right now.

Let's get one part of the puzzle dealt with first; SHE DID HAVE SEX WITH THE OM. What she is attempting to do is trickle-truth you with the 'we kissed but didn't touch' bit in order to keep you off the scent. A few months later, it will be 'well, I gave him oral but I stopped before he came'. Then later it will be 'okay we had sex but I didn't like it'. See a pattern? No two adults in a secluded hotel away from their spouses just make out and stop, especially when the fire was previously stoked with texts, phone calls, illicit pics, and the like. 

And the 'I love you but not in love with you' and 'you are more like a brother to me than a lover' lines? Seriously? The affair fog she's in has her believing that you are nothing more than a Plan B, a backup plan, the third string QB that can be easily replaced. Otherwise, she would not have went ballistic when you told his wife. She would be making every effort to reconcile your marriage and not worrying over his well-being.

Read between the lines, my man. You will always be wary of every phone call, e-mail, and text she gets if you decide to stay with her for the kids like I tried to. That is no way to live life. Get a lawyer and deep-six this cancer before it spreads...

Uh, never mind. Seems like you have been proactive regarding the situation. Good deal. Just make sure that you don't give her any ground regarding custody. Once she gets some legal advice, she'll do a 180 and want custody; take it from many of us who deal with this every day...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

1. Open up a new email account at a new place and do not use your old email account as the password reset address.

2. Copy all the emails to a cd or flash drive, make 2 copies - give one to a friend to hold for you.

3. Find the real world address for the OMW and mail her the info including the emails. She deserves to know her husband is cheating.


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## Dyokemm

Simon Phoenix,

OP didn't make it really clear (I myself had to reread his post) but he did say she confessed to this being a full blown PA.

And I agree with other posters.

Expose to all friends and family.

File D. 

Go hard 180.

There can be no 'play nice' in a situation like this where the WS is not playing by the same rules.

That will just set you up to be hurt even further by this crap.


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## Garm

My situation is remarkably similar to yours. I'm a SAHD so I am going to try to stick around and see what happens. Hopefully you have more employment options than I do.


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## poppoppop

Sorry to hear that Garm. It's been very tough, but a weekend away gave me a little more clarity. 

We talked for hours last night and got down to why things went the way they did...how did she get to the point that cheating was acceptable. My wife is so embarrassed, she has only told one person who doesn't have space to put her up. She's now staying in a hotel in a part of town that isn't exactly the best. 

She showed me some of the emails going back and forth last night and by the end of the night, we made the decision to separate. This morning, we both were so tired (I didn't actually sleep at all again) I realized we were in no shape to make any definitive choice about what to do (especially if we are going to have a talk with my daughter about it). 

She did turn over financial information to me today and also recommended a book that she gave a friend 2 years ago when her friend's husband cheated. I think the weight of what she's done is starting to set in, but everyday something new happens.


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## warlock07

> also recommended a book that she gave a friend 2 years ago when her friend's husband cheated.


What the ? It is like an abuser giving the one he abuses a book about domestic violence or abuse.. It is her that needs to read a book.

And they did have sex. The way she is acting now confirms it


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## rrrbbbttt

"How did she get to the point where cheating was acceptable" Seems she is trying to Rug sweep this affair as well as Blame shift.

You have not exposed yet, you need to expose to your family, her family etc. otherwise, the affair may go underground.

You need to get tested for STDs.

Get a written timeline from her so you can know what occurred and when and it will not allow her to lie to you about it.

Don't stop gathering information just because you have now exposed it. What you do not know can and will hurt you.


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## poppoppop

warlock: Yes, a few posts back I did confirm it was sex. The book is about how to cope with someone cheating on you. Funny though, huh? She was her friend's confidant when this happened and was furious at the time. Look at her now.

rrbbtt: I haven't said anything to her family yet. I'm waiting for divorce papers so it can all happen at once. I'm not doing it to spare her, I'm trying to be strategic. At this point, if it goes underground or not, it wouldn't really make a difference. I don't want to bother the OM wife anymore either, but I am tempted to contact her again, just to be able to confirm what's been going on since it was discovered.


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## workindad

What a joke, she recommended a book. Did you ask her if she actually read and got anything from it? 

Separate is a big relief to her now she will feel like she is free to cheat as much as she wants. Maybe om can arrange a trip to see her. Make sure you keep his wife informed. 

I would file 

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame

It sounds like your WW is too far gone at this point & it's certainly good for you to find your strength and do what is right for you and your children.

It is difficult and amazing to me to hear how parents can get so caught up in their bs fog that they literally push their own, often very young, children into the background noise of their lives. Your WW needs to be tremendously ashamed of her A, but she also very seriously needs to feel unrelenting shame for the way she has treated your children.

And she continues to do it. I would bet that her deletion of the forwarded e-mails means that she and her OM are terrified that you will take all of this to their company HR or higher-ups. He is busy not just trying to keep his own BW from throwing him out, but to stop you from exposing them at work. Your WW now has her mind taken up both by her A and her fears about her job.

Kids? What kids? Can't worry about those pests while important things are happening.


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## Shaggy

That hotel she is living in - she is spending family money on it and on meals to continue her affair - make sure you account for that in any division of assets.


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## poppoppop

OP again...yes, the issue of work getting involved has been brought up many times. I considered doing it, but I had to stop because I realized the fallout from that would negatively affect my kids and even though it would be great to cause all this fallout, I'm trying to minimize the fallout my kids feel. 

In terms of the hotel, it is a sticky point. We don't have a lot of extra money to be spending on a hotel. She brought up the very same point...that each hotel stay is basically money that would have gone towards the kids savings. I told her she should have thought of that. I also told her I'd gladly change places with her and be the one that was not betrayed and stay at a hotel. I told her, if it comes to money and it was me that did what you did, I'd be sleeping in my car to save money for the kids. 

She said she read the book with her friend 2 years ago.


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## LostViking

Meaning she was planning on cheating on you two years ago, or it was at least festering in her mind. Did you point out the absolute hypocrisy of that to her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mahike

I am sorry you are going through all of this crap. Your wife never thought about the outcome of her choices neither did mine or how it would effect the kids.

She is still in Trickle Truth mode. It took months to get the whole truth out of my wife but the real death nail to an affair is to expose to the other mans wife and your friends and family and I mean both sides.

I am glad you are here, you are going to get good advice and support from this group. You need to think about your kids and yourself. 

Lets really be honest your wife had sex with this guy and I would bet unprotected. You need to get checked for STD's. You can let your wife know that you did that and it makes the point you do not believe her. That is a good stance on everything at this point, do not believe her about anything verify everything.

Get your self into IC books will help but you will need some one on one help


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## awake1

You seem to be doing okay OP. 

But I must address what I hope is temporary madness: You thought about letting your wife stay...on the weekends? Have you gone crazy? 

She was banging some guy and betrayed her children and husband!


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## poppoppop

OP here: The reason I've let her stay weekends is that the attorney I spoke to said I should create a pattern of behavior to establish what is the norm for the kids. If she stays at home with the kids on the weekends, it establishes that she gets them weekends. I need a break from them too. I would make her take them out of the house to stay with her somewhere else, but they don't know the situation yet and I don't want to displace them while she is staying in a seedy hotel. 

We did have a conversation at length this past weekend. I told her all the signs this guy was just manipulating her. I predicted he would bail now that his wife and kids know and make some excuse to her. I told her over and over that this guy was lying to her and that he would make up a lie about one of his kids to call it off, so he would have an easier exit. I must have a crystal ball because he did exactly as I said. Yup, he lied about one of his kids again, just as he did to make her sympathetic to him at the beginning. She's now starting to realize he was just screwing with her and has asked to sit down and talk sometime this week to sort through the mess she's made. 

I don't know if she wants to reconcile, but it appears so. I'm still not sure what I want, but it looks like a long road ahead either way.


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## slater

DO NOT let her move back in. One on my biggest mistakes was letting my wife stay at home. You already have inertia here, use it. Trust me, even if you are going to R, she needs to stay away for a few months to have time to really understand what she has done. Otherwise she will minimize everything. Good luck.


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## warlock07

poppoppop said:


> OP here: The reason I've let her stay weekends is that the attorney I spoke to said I should create a pattern of behavior to establish what is the norm for the kids. If she stays at home with the kids on the weekends, it establishes that she gets them weekends. I need a break from them too. I would make her take them out of the house to stay with her somewhere else, but they don't know the situation yet and I don't want to displace them while she is staying in a seedy hotel.
> 
> We did have a conversation at length this past weekend. I told her all the signs this guy was just manipulating her. I predicted he would bail now that his wife and kids know and make some excuse to her. I told her over and over that this guy was lying to her and that he would make up a lie about one of his kids to call it off, so he would have an easier exit. I must have a crystal ball because he did exactly as I said. Yup, he lied about one of his kids again, just as he did to make her sympathetic to him at the beginning. She's now starting to realize he was just screwing with her and has asked to sit down and talk sometime this week to sort through the mess she's made.
> 
> I don't know if she wants to reconcile, but it appears so. I'm still not sure what I want, but it looks like a long road ahead either way.


You should let her find this out on her own instead of spelling it out for her. Distance yourself from her and the situation. Don't ;et her be back back with you, only because the OM dumped her


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## bfree

poppoppop said:


> OP here: The reason I've let her stay weekends is that the attorney I spoke to said I should create a pattern of behavior to establish what is the norm for the kids. If she stays at home with the kids on the weekends, it establishes that she gets them weekends. I need a break from them too. I would make her take them out of the house to stay with her somewhere else, but they don't know the situation yet and I don't want to displace them while she is staying in a seedy hotel.
> 
> We did have a conversation at length this past weekend. I told her all the signs this guy was just manipulating her. I predicted he would bail now that his wife and kids know and make some excuse to her. I told her over and over that this guy was lying to her and that he would make up a lie about one of his kids to call it off, so he would have an easier exit. I must have a crystal ball because he did exactly as I said. Yup, he lied about one of his kids again, just as he did to make her sympathetic to him at the beginning. She's now starting to realize he was just screwing with her and has asked to sit down and talk sometime this week to sort through the mess she's made.
> 
> I don't know if she wants to reconcile, but it appears so. I'm still not sure what I want, but it looks like a long road ahead either way.


First you need to decide whether YOU want reconciliation. Try to make an objective decision although I know its almost impossible to take all your feelings out of the equation. If you decide R is something you would be open to you need to have a list of conditions to build upon. Otherwise you will be tempted to rugsweep all of this and that is just going to delay the divorce for a while. Sit down and really think what you will need your wife to do in order to make you feel safe to stay married to her. And understand that if you do R your old marriage is dead. This is a completely new marriage and it is an opportunity to structure it better so it will be stronger going forward. But most important try to stay as detached from her as possible. She is going to be going through a lot of emotional turmoil and until you actually are in R you don't want to get wrapped up in her drama.


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## Jasel

slater said:


> DO NOT let her move back in. One on my biggest mistakes was letting my wife stay at home. You already have inertia here, use it. Trust me, even if you are going to R, she needs to stay away for a few months to have time to really understand what she has done. Otherwise she will minimize everything. Good luck.


Definitely this. She's going to have to float in the wind for awhile until it sinks in how serious what she did is and the consequences of not only losing her AP but throwing away her marriage and her family. Do NOT make it easy for her which will only make her more inclined to rugsweep, minimize what she has done, encourage cake eating, and is much more likely to cause a false reconciliation. And the fog doesn't just disappear like flipping a switch either. She's probably still hung up on this guy somewhat regardless of whether he throws her under the bus or not.


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## LongWalk

Pop, you have instinctively done a good job. Exposing to OMW right off the bat crippled the affair. Erection and lubrication are more difficult when the lovers are struggling with angry spouses.

To R or not R, that is the question. It will interesting to hear what your wife now thinks. As other posters have said OM's rejection is no basis to stay married. 

You have horse sense. As D rolls forward your wife may fall in live with you because you have been strong in the crisis. 
O

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## Will_Kane

poppoppop said:


> I told her that I reread the emails and told her to do the same and she would notice her emails would be along the lines of "I miss you, can't wait to see you". The OM's emails replies would be sexual innuendo. I said, he's out for sex only and fooled you._Posted via Mobile Device_





poppoppop said:


> Hi everyone...OP again. Something new everyday. I checked my email. Guess what? Some of my emails had gone missing! They were not in my trash folder either. I sent my wife a text asking if she had deleted any of my emails. Her reply: "When?"
> 
> My reply: "ANYTIME?" She said, yes, I deleted the emails you forwarded to yourself. So, my friend say that if its a Yahoo account, they will restore emails deleted within 7 days! So I requested my emails be restored and changed all my passwords.
> 
> I'm going to let her know it didn't even work and that if she intends to be a good co-parent, she needs to stop all this deception. It's obvious to me that she is still doing what she has been for months...trying to hide her tracks...even the ones that have already been discovered. _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would caution you against having deep heartfelt talks with her about your situation. She is so good at manipulating you and you don't seem to know what is going on. Anything you tell her she is going to use against you for her own benefit. Keep your conversations to finances and custody. Don't give her any idea of your strategy, of your plans, that she could use against you to pre-empt you.

Only agree to talk to her about your relationship or reconciling if she has broken it off with the other man. If not, there is no reason for you to talk. Tell her that in so many words. You will get nowhere with reconciliation talk or relationship talk while she still is involved.

Look at the quote above. On 8/17 you posted that you had gone over her emails and noticed how other man was only interested in sex. You thought you were doing her (and yourself) a favor. Her response - not to recognize that he only is interested in sex - but rather to delete the emails so you can't read them anymore.

I read what you posted about her complaining how expensive the hotels are, and how you said in a similar situation, you would be sleeping in the car if it was too expensive. That is a very basic fundamental difference between the two of you. You are committed to the family, she is not - and this is NOT because she started cheating. This is how she always was. 

I'm not saying she was a terrible mother or a terrible person - what I'm saying is that you ALWAYS have been more committed to what's best for your wife and your daughter, your wife has ALWAYS been more SELFISH and committed to herself when compared to you. You have always valued her more than she has valued you.


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## Will_Kane

Have you ever told her that you had the emails restored? If so, what was her response?


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## LongWalk

I meant "fall in love"

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## Will_Kane

poppoppop said:


> We did have a conversation at length this past weekend. I told her all the signs this guy was just manipulating her. I predicted he would bail now that his wife and kids know and make some excuse to her. I told her over and over that this guy was lying to her and that he would make up a lie about one of his kids to call it off, so he would have an easier exit. I must have a crystal ball because he did exactly as I said. Yup, he lied about one of his kids again, just as he did to make her sympathetic to him at the beginning. She's now starting to realize he was just screwing with her.


You are doing yourself no favors by helping her figure this out. You should let this guy string her along and use her, let her figure it out by herself. As a matter of fact, if anything, you should be telling her how she deserves to be happy and she should be with this guy if she wants, that you would never stand in her way of happiness. Tell her she should move in with this guy, offer to pack up her stuff with her and take her to his house.

When you chase her, she will push you away. When you push her away, she will chase you. Let her know you will not be a "soft landing" for her failed affair. Do this by encouraging her to find someone who can make her happy like the other man.

If she loves you, she will come back crying and begging.


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## Will_Kane

_I wish I could claim credit for this masterpiece but I can't. It belongs to very wise member from another website. It should be etched in the minds of every man and woman who has been the victim on infidelity._

_*Just Let Them Go*

The end result?

The end result is to respect yourself in the end,
let go of the people that don't value you or respect you.

That is the end result.

The quickest way to get a cheating spouse back is to let them go with a smile on your face wishing them the best in life and hoping that everything works out in their relationship with their affair partner.

Seriously, the quickest way to get them back.

Nothing else works better or quicker.

Let them go.

Agree with them and their feelings, "you should be with the OM, I hope he makes you happy, good bye"

Wouldn't that be true love?

If you really loved your spouse, and wanted them to have what they really want in life which is the other person they're in love with, wouldn't letting them go be the approach if you really love them?

Why focus on the affair or the drama associated with it?
Just let them go. Give them their freedom.

You can take a good hard look at yourself in the mirror everyday and improve yourself but do it for you, not for someone else, the changes will never stick when it's done for someone else, do it for your benefit and you will probably make those changes last much longer if not indefinitely - because it's for your benefit and you realize the importance and value in that benefit because YOU are involved.

I will never tell someone to change to entice a WAW back when she's been cheating on him. I don't care how bad a marriage, there is never an excuse for cheating. That is a personal decision that someone makes to cheat on their spouse. If a marriage is really bad, leave, get a divorce, speak up to your spouse and tell them flat out "this marriage sucks and if things don't change I'm going to leave you and find someone better" and if things don't improve, leave that person.

But cheating, no excuses.

Think about cheating.

A wayward spouse who cheats on their spouse goes behind their back, secretly, telling lies, feeling guilty, getting angry at their spouse for getting in the way of their fantasies but never owning up to their actions, never admitting what they're doing. If a person who cheats on their spouse felt justified in their actions, why hide and go behind their spouses backs when they start cheating, why lie, why make up excuses about late nights at work and going to a friends place and sleeping over because they drank too much and any other such nonsense?

Deep down, the cheating spouse knows there is something inherently wrong with their actions otherwise they wouldn't lie about their actions and hide what they're doing.

Fighting the affair? For what reason?
To compete with the OM or OW for your spouse?

What message does that communicate to your wayward spouse?
They have lots of value and you have none because now you have to compete with another person for their love? Competing with your wayward spouse's affair partner never works, it just prolongs an ugly drama filled process.

And for your last point, 
The easiest way to show you will not tolerate cheating in your relationship is to let that person go. That is the easiest and most effective way to show this.

"Look wife/husband, I won't be in an open relationship with you, I won't give you X number of days, weeks, months to make your mind, if you really feel like you need to sit on the fence on this decision and can't decide between your affair partner and me well I will make the decision for you, you can be with them because I'm no longer an option. I love you and wish you a good life with them and hope it works out for you because it didn't work out for us. Now the best thing we can do for each other is to make this process as graceful and peaceful as possible for us and our children, I'll contact a lawyer/mediator and get started on the process of our legal separation/divorce."

You give them what they want.
You don't fight them on this issue.
You agree with their feelings,
they want to be with the other person, fine they should be with the other person, let them be with the other person.

You will never convince a person to change their feelings with your arguments and logic. You can not find one member on this website in a situation where they are dealing with infidelity where they got their spouse to change their mind about how they feel about their affair partner.

You can't say "don't love them, love me instead",
you can't say "look at me, I'm better in every way compared to your affair partner, pick me instead of them",
you can't say "you took marriage vows, you promised to love me"

I agree, you don't have to make it easy for your wayward spouse to have an affair, but when you let them go, "lovingly detach", you don't have to worry about making it easy for them. It's no longer your concern, they can have you or them but not both and not at the same time and since they've chosen to have an affair, they've made their choice, there is no profit in fighting that decision. Let them go and move on with your life, that is the quickest, easiest way to get them back.

You definitely don't support them financially and enable them, that would be weak, wussy, clingy, insecure behavior - something in you telling you that you need to support them financially while they're having an affair, hoping they'll realize how nice you are and come back to you.

Just let them go, have them move out or you move out and live a good life without them._


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## lifeistooshort

OP, it sounds like you've handled this really well. Another poster made this point though and I haven't seen it addressed, but it is important: many women are not attracted to men they support or to men that are caregivers. We're not biologically wired for that; you can make all the logical arguments you want but then I could argue that men should still be attracted to wives that get fat or unattractive, but biologically they're not. You've definitely upped your value with your willingness to lose the marriage but should you ever decide to R it's going to be an issue. Personally I think even if you try she'll be on the lookout for another man.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Plan 9 from OS

I don't want to sound like the guy trying to rain on the parade here, but did the OP truly verify that the OMW knows about the affair? I don't recall anywhere in the thread where the OP and the OMW had a face to face conversation. If all the feedback on the OM is coming from the WS, doesn't that strike you guys as a little too scripted - especially if the OM did the exact same thing the OP predicted he would? 

IDK, but why do I have the feeling that this affair is going underground? Maybe it's just me and I'm being particularly cynical today.


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## badmemory

OP,

I can understand wanting to R with her, especially with children. However, the circumstances right now are not set up for it to be successful.

Had she come begging you back, professed her love to you and otherwise showed complete remorse; then you'd have a starting point.

But she is not there. She may never get there. You need to accept that. Move ahead with the D, implement the "with children" version of the 180, and stay separated from her. Then see how she reacts. If there's anything that will help her understand what it's like to lose her husband for cheating, that will do it. 

If it doesn't, if she doesn't demonstrate the true remorse required for R, you'll be prepared to move on with you life - and be better off because of it.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

poppoppop said:


> OP here:
> I don't know if she wants to reconcile, but it appears so. I'm still not sure what I want, but it looks like a long road ahead either way.


If you take here back now you'll be sorry you did it for the rest of your life....

I'm not saying that you couldn't ever get back together with her some time FAR down the line, but she needs to loose you for a while.

If she starts to work on and continues to do all the the right things to get you back - Then you'd have a chance.

I've you try to R now, I'll bet that she'll be cheating again with in a year.


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## ArmyofJuan

poppoppop said:


> I don't know if she wants to reconcile, but it appears so. I'm still not sure what I want, but it looks like a long road ahead either way.


Plan B is more than just a pill.

The cards may be moving in your favor but you need to take her motivation into consideration. Don't be a stop-gap until something better comes along, they rarely learn their lesson in this.


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## poppoppop

OP here again: To address an earlier poster, when I told her I already had the email restored, she didn't really reply. She did say that she didn't want the OMW to have them because she had threatened to get them both fired. I am trying to take the advice here (because so far it had been gold) and the advice of my attorney. It's a battle because I know she should not be back in the house ever until she works on reconciliation, but I also feel its best for my kids to get into a somewhat normal pattern. My attorney said whatever patterns I establish now will likely stick. Plus, the kids are showing signs of stress. I'm a father first and foremost, even if that means having to be around her or having to give up some of my rights. It's funny, at the beginning she said she felt like she wanted to stay with me but only because of the kids. I was thinking, if it were me, I would have stay for that reason. I would have suffered anything for them. 

Anyway, we will talk today and even if reconciliation is in the cards, we still need to separate for a while. You guys are right. I have been working this past week to get to this point. Just trying to open her eyes. Now that she seems to understand what this guy really is, I feel like I've had a small victory. Yet at the same time, I don't want to be a consolation prize. I don't even know if she is saying she wants to reconcile. I'll find out tonight. But it's true...doesn't appear she came to this conclusion on her own. I am gonna focus on my kids and myself. I have come to realize that although I'm not physically unattractive, I do need to get myself together to be more attractive to someone, whether its my wife or someone else. So my focus is going to be finding a more steady job and getting help with the kids from my parents (they live overseas), maybe join a gym, and see my friends more frequently.

Whatever happens with her, I don't feel I have much control over so I'm not gonna focus my attention there until I have more info. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree

I understand that you don't want your kids under any stress but just remember that if she moves back in and you are in a false R the stress they will face from losing her/you a second time will be that much greater.


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## Dyokemm

OP,

I do not recommend ever staying in a M 'for the kids'.

My maternal grandfather did that, and they had a bitter, unhappy M for another 45 years.

The experience left permanent scars on my mom and her sister (the result of one of my grandmother's A's) that come out in fights between them.

It would have been better if he divorced her cheating a**.


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## Dyokemm

And I'm not telling you not to R if that's what you want to work for.

But there has to be some type of loving and mutually nurturing relationship between you and your WW to make it worthwhile.


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## poppoppop

Thanks guys...I guess what I meant is that even if I started having feelings for someone else, I never would have acted on it because of the kids. I think if you start to fall out of love with your spouse, it is your job to work on that. For better or for worse, right? Yes, at a certain point you can't do anything if the other person is resistant to the idea of making a marriage work, but that's on the other person. I took the vows so seriously that when others I knew cheated, it made me mad that I went to their weddings. I felt I was due an apology from them for having gone to their wedding, supported them with my friendship. And my wife knew this yet it didn't stop her. 

I would like her to want to reconcile, but to be honest, I haven't decided what I want. I just know she needs to try to make amends for what she's done. At least that way I can co-parent without hatred.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tulsy

poppoppop said:


> ...She's now starting to realize he was just screwing with her and has asked to sit down and talk sometime this week to sort through the mess she's made.
> 
> I don't know if she wants to reconcile, but it appears so. ....


Ya, so she may want to use you as a fall back plan, which is BS especially if you take to heart all the trash she tossed at you when you first found out; she'd been unhappy for a while, blah blah blah. 



poppoppop said:


> ...I don't want to be a consolation prize. I don't even know if she is saying she wants to reconcile. I'll find out tonight. But it's true...doesn't appear she came to this conclusion on her own....


Exactly...don't accept being anyone's plan B. And ya, it was you pointing it out to her, not her arriving at the conclusion on her own.



poppoppop said:


> ...
> 
> I would like her to want to reconcile, but to be honest, I haven't decided what I want. I just know she needs to try to make amends for what she's done....


That`s right...she would need to do the heavy lifting. 

Dude, you have been doing amazing so far...really, making some great moves during this trying time. Much better than most people...keep it up, you're doing good and you're gonna make it through this fine. Very level headed considering the trauma you've had bestowed upon you.


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## Will_Kane

Maintain your best position legally. If that means trying to keep her out, her living elsewhere, do so.

She shows no sign of wanting to come back. Not really. Not to be your loving wife, not because she loves you and is sorry. If that were the case, you would know it, she would have apologized, crying, asking to talk immediately. She is still holding out hope for other man, keeping you as a backup, if that.

All she is doing now is negotiating for time. Expect her to tell you she loves you but is not in love with you, that she is confused, that she doesn't know what to do, that she needs a few weeks to figure it out. Don't believe it. No amount of time will be enough for her to figure it out. If other man left his wife, your wife would be with him in a heartbeat. She would jump at the chance. She is not jumping at the chance with you.

She won't want to give up on other man if he still is holding out hope, leading her on. Good chance he still is leading your wife on, telling her he loves her and needs more time. Good chance that she will go against all objective evaluation and hold onto the hope that he is telling her the truth. Wishful thinking on her part. 

To think that you have a chance to save this thing is wishful thinking on your part. Not that there is zero chance, but it is very, very small. The best thing you could do if you want to save your marriage is to take as hard an approach as you can. No, she can't move back in and you are moving for divorce immediately. No, you won't even talk about working it out with her until she has ended all contact with him, now and forever, and you get to see the letter she has written him to end it.

Sometimes it takes losing something, or almost losing it, before we realize how valuable it is. We tend to take for granted that our parents always will be there for us, that our husband or wife always will be there for us. You have been figuratively slapped in the face by her infidelity, so you realize she won't always be there for you. But she likely thinks that all she has to do is say the word, that she wants back in, and you will let her back in. If that is the case, then she will want to see what are her options with other man, and hold out to see how it plays out with him, because she knows her option with you is always open.


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## bfree

Will_Kane said:


> Maintain your best position legally. If that means trying to keep her out, her living elsewhere, do so.
> 
> She shows no sign of wanting to come back. Not really. Not to be your loving wife, not because she loves you and is sorry. If that were the case, you would know it, she would have apologized, crying, asking to talk immediately. She is still holding out hope for other man, keeping you as a backup, if that.
> 
> All she is doing now is negotiating for time. Expect her to tell you she loves you but is not in love with you, that she is confused, that she doesn't know what to do, that she needs a few weeks to figure it out. Don't believe it. No amount of time will be enough for her to figure it out. If other man left his wife, your wife would be with him in a heartbeat. She would jump at the chance. She is not jumping at the chance with you.
> 
> She won't want to give up on other man if he still is holding out hope, leading her on. Good chance he still is leading your wife on, telling her he loves her and needs more time. Good chance that she will go against all objective evaluation and hold onto the hope that he is telling her the truth. Wishful thinking on her part.
> 
> To think that you have a chance to save this thing is wishful thinking on your part. Not that there is zero chance, but it is very, very small. The best thing you could do if you want to save your marriage is to take as hard an approach as you can. No, she can't move back in and you are moving for divorce immediately. No, you won't even talk about working it out with her until she has ended all contact with him, now and forever, and you get to see the letter she has written him to end it.
> 
> Sometimes it takes losing something, or almost losing it, before we realize how valuable it is. We tend to take for granted that our parents always will be there for us, that our husband or wife always will be there for us. You have been figuratively slapped in the face by her infidelity, so you realize she won't always be there for you. But she likely thinks that all she has to do is say the word, that she wants back in, and you will let her back in. If that is the case, then she will want to see what are her options with other man, and hold out to see how it plays out with him, because she knows her option with you is always open.


Will is right. This is something many WS do and all it does is string along the BS unneccesarily. If she says she is confused and needs time to think you tell her no. Tell her that she either loves you and wants to put 100% into reconciliation or she is going to be divorced. Force her hand and then you will know where her heart truly lies.


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## poppoppop

Hi all...OP here. We've had a few scheduled talks this week. Tonight's ended at around 5am. 

She is now convinced that this guy is a serial cheater. She told me about how someone at work told her that a few other people are rumored to have had affairs with this guy at work. Now, the rumors are circulating about her too. She claims her last communication was with him last Monday when he said he needed time to be with his kids, then she said he had no response about the lies, so she told him not to contact her anymore. I was suspicious she was lying and so I asked her for her passwords so I could check her phone for texts, emails, calls. i told her i want all the passwords because I didn't believe her. She agreed. I also checked her phone records through her cell phone provider and there's been no record of contact, so I think she's starting to be forthcoming. I told her about the underwear she wears whenever she would go see him and later, she threw them all in the trash. She's being very apologetic now and says she wants to try to work things out. She said she did think she was in love with him at one point, but realizes it was all a fantasy based on lies and she's starting to get a clearer picture. She also said she fell out of love with me a while ago, but understands now that I've been good to her always and that now she's out of the fog of this fantasy, she's starting to realize what it means to lose me. She said she wants to see if we still have something between us. 

I told her I appreciate it, but this hurt will take along time to get over. I told her she still has to leave. She agreed that she would stay away and hopes that at some point I will change my mind and allow her back. I told her at this point, I don't know if that will ever happen. She asked if we could go see a therapist together. I agreed we should for the sake of the kids. She asked me what we were now, husband and wife? Trying to be friends? Dating? I told her I can't help but continue being her husband because that is the role I played for almost 11 years. I told her because she broke the wedding vows, she ceased to be my wife and so at this point, we are no longer married in my mind. She asked if I planned on dating other people. I said there's obviously no one now, but its a possibility. She said she would not be seeing anyone and will wait in the hopes we can reconcile. I'm seeing a therapist on my own tomorrow. She said she would see one this week. My dad is coming to stay with us in 2 weeks so he can watch the kids and I can get my stuff together. I haven't decided what I want still because its still so fresh in my mind and told her that I don't think I could ever really trust her or forgive her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Will_Kane

That was a pretty good talk.

It's completely possible that she realizes how foolish she was, and hopefully she can learn from this situation and the next time a similar guy comes along, she will avoid it completely.

On the other hand, it's troubling to realize that the only reason she didn't leave you is because this guy is a lying cheater; if he were a single guy with no attachments and no previous known history of doing this, she would have left you for him and not looked back. It doesn't mean she wouldn't have realized her mistake at some point in the future.

It's good that she showed you everything, gave you all passwords, trashed the lingerie. The separation is a good idea. Now you'll see if she really wants to be with you, if she starts up again with this guy, or with some other guy. Be alert for her re-starting with this guy or another guy.

If you do reconcile, is it going to be OK for her to continue to work with this guy?

Is she going to get tested for STDs and give you the results?

Is she going to write out a timeline of the affair and answer your questions, like what reasoning did she use to tell herself that it was OK to break her vows, to cheat on you rather than to talk to you about the problems in your marriage and seek to separate from you BEFORE cheating?

Take your time and continue to improve yourself.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

poppoppop said:


> * She's being very apologetic now and says she wants to try to work things out. She said she did think she was in love with him at one point, but realizes it was all a fantasy based on lies and she's starting to get a clearer picture.
> 
> * She also said she fell out of love with me a while ago, but understands now that I've been good to her always and that now she's out of the fog of this fantasy, she's starting to realize what it means to lose me. She said she wants to see if we still have something between us.
> 
> * She agreed that she would stay away and hopes that at some point I will change my mind and allow her back. I told her at this point, I don't know if that will ever happen.
> 
> * She said she would not be seeing anyone and will wait in the hopes we can reconcile.[/i][/size]


* Her plan A has fallen through.

* She now wants you back because she has no one else right now.

* She will pull out all stops and try every trick to get you back... For now that is.

* After you get divorced and you start dating, if she still has her love life in park in another year, or so, than MAYBE you'd have a chance at rebuilding a relationship. My guess is she'll last about 4-6 months. Than she'll start seeing men again.

Good luck.


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## happyman64

Pop pop

Will Kane is right.

Take your times. Don't rush to any long term decisions.

Most importantly let your wife feel the repurcussions for her horrible decisions.

Patience. You are doing great.

HM64


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## Jasel

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> * Her plan A has fallen through.
> 
> * She now wants you back because she has no one else right now.
> 
> * She will pull out all stops and try every trick to get you back... For now that is.
> 
> * After you get divorced and you start dating, if she still has her love life in park in another year, or so, than MAYBE you'd have a chance at rebuilding a relationship. My guess is she'll last about 4-6 months. Than she'll start seeing men again.
> 
> Good luck.



Ya I have to say as soon as I read the latest update that's what went through my mind too. I don't think she's all that remorseful as much as she regrets being burned and having her Plan A smashed to pieces. What other choice does she have but to come crawling back to her Plan B?? 

Of course now she realizes what it means to lose you and is willing to work on the marriage. Because if she loses you then she really does have nothing. When she had her Plan A she was more than willing to throw you away. Always keep that in mind. 

You can still be good parents to your kids without being married and living in the same home. Two parents co-habitating in the same house does not automatically mean it's in the best interest of the children. Especially two parents whose marriage is riddled with infidelity and relationship issues. You two could both always find other people, have great relationships, and that in itself could be in the best interest of the children as well. Just something to keep in mind.


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## barbados

Sounds like you are simply her Plan B. Things fell through with her "true love" when she found out he was just a player and she wasn't "special". Now she wants to get back with you and make things all nice. I wouldn't do it. I like that you are going to IC, but see no real need for MC.


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## Chaparral

I don't buy into the plan a plan b thing. It leaves out too much. For one thing I don't think most people in affairs consider that kind of thing.

I think usually its more like getting drunk. The next morning its , .....what the hell was I thinking........ the party was nice but not anywhere worth this.


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## LongWalk

Chaparral is right. Life if more complicated. When people cheat, they may or may not have plan. Most are optimists who don't expect to get caught. Being plan B may not be so awful if the WS is also plan B. Both H and W must then concentrate on the relationship if they want to have some rewarding marriage.

Also, what did they have in the beginning? Was there good years or real passion. Shared sacrifice? Joy in anything?

If couples abused each other and failed over and over, repair can be difficult.


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## LostViking

I don't think she has the willpower to stay celibate and wait for Pop to decide if he wants to R. I do not buy it for one minute. Pop needs to verify, to the best of his ability, everything she told him or she needs to offer up proof she has ended it. Taking her at her word is a fools errand. 

No if he lets the D proceed and dates other women, there is no way she will wait around. She will be underneath a new guy in no time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jasel

Chaparral said:


> I don't buy into the plan a plan b thing. It leaves out too much. For one thing I don't think most people in affairs consider that kind of thing.
> 
> I think usually its more like getting drunk. The next morning its , .....what the hell was I thinking........ the party was nice but not anywhere worth this.


I think it depends on the type of cheating involved. It certainly isn't across the board but with pop's situation I think the Plan A/Plan B analogy is most likely. 

Getting drunk and regretting it the next morning is more like a ONS. She was actively cheating and it wasn't until it looked like her Prince Charming and the Fairy Tale Fantasy she had build in her head slowly but surely came crashing to the ground that she wanted to come back to her husband. It doesn't seem like she cheated, came to regret it all on her own, and _then _decided to work on her marriage. 

She was willing to throw her marriage away because she thought she had a better option, once she realized she didn't have a better option, she decided she better try to hold onto her marriage because that or divorcing with no fantasy OM to go to were the only options she was left with.

It's possible she genuinely wants to repair her marriage and relationship with her husband and regrets what she has done, but I'd say it's due to a lack of appealing options and desperation more so than genuine remorse.

I'm not saying this is reason alone to NOT reconcile but I do think it's important for the OP to see it for what it is to help make the decision whether he wants to reconcile or not. She betrayed him and wants to come back because it's in her best interest to do so.

And there's always the possibility of a false R or that she's still lying on top of that, but those are other issues.


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## LostViking

I agree with most of what you say Jas, but this woman has proven that she is a liar and lacks boundaries. It's not hard for a woman to attract a man. If she thinks Pops is on the road to replacing her she has two choices: pull out all the stops and fight for him or settle for a lesser quality man, cut her losses and move on. 

The path of least resistance is the one I think she will take. She knows deep down she is tainted and vile and that it will take amonental effort to change how Pop sees her now. 

I don't think she has it in her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## poppoppop

OP here...yeah I'm not sure either. Here's the thing. I never once considered she could do this, so it made me think she was incapable of it. I think now I look at the situation and the fact that from the beginning it was not, "I'm sorry, please forgive me, I made mistake, and I love you," but rather, "I fell out of love with you a long time ago," and the change that has occurred since this affair was discovered, made it hard for me to take a good look at it. My gut reaction was, "you are crazy. You are married and we have kids, get back over here!" And that is due to her saying she is going with him. So it's hard to discern now if she is wanting to try working on it because of the kids, or because she had some sort of epiphany, or if she's alone now because of this guy. And frankly, I don't trust her. So, that is why the separation is still going forward. She has said she is now being brutally honest, and it finally seems consistent with the truth for once, but I told her its not like we are trying to get back. Our marriage is over. If you want a life with me again, YOU figure out a way to build back trust. Today, she continued to do all the little things as a show of affection, which I haven't seen in months. Again, I appreciate it but take it all with a grain of salt. 

Who knows what will happen. You guys are right. she is painting it as waking up from a night of drinking, not a plan a/b thing, but there's enough evidence to support either of those. in fact, it doesnt matter to me which it is. I dont even know yet if i want her back in my life. Even though its almost been two weeks, it still feels too fresh to make any sort of long term decision. My mood is still all over the place (sad, angry, confused, frustrated, panic'd) so I know I'm too manic to make a clear decision. If we part ways, I'm working on being ok with it. I'm open to all possibilities, but I'm not going to be trusting anytime soon. In fact, I'm not even going to think about the possibility of being with my wife or with someone else for a bit. I'm just gonna focus on being happier being me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aug

pop, that's a good way to look at your situation. Take your time. Be detach. Then you can make clearer decisions.


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## Will_Kane

poppoppop said:


> from the beginning it was not, "I'm sorry, please forgive me, I made mistake, and I love you," but rather, "I fell out of love with you a long time ago."
> 
> Today, she continued to do all the little things as a show of affection, which I haven't seen in months. _Posted via Mobile Device_


"I fell out of love with you a long time ago." It feels surreal to find out that your wife is someone else's girlfriend; not only that, but that she considers herself moreso his girlfriend than your wife. That is a jolt that is not easily gotten over.

But what about now? Is she giving you the "I'm sorry, please forgive me, I made mistake, and I love you"? Or is she still more along the lines of "I fell out of love with you a long time ago"? Or somewhere in between the two?


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## Decorum

poppoppop said:


> If we part ways, I'm working on being ok with it. I'm open to all possibilities, but I'm not going to be trusting anytime soon. ... I'm just gonna focus on being happier being me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is a good place to be.

Give yourself some time to process it.

If you are open to all possibilities it often means she has changed your view of her permanently, your respect for her has gone through a change for the worse, and the thought of being loved by her is taking on less and less value. If that is the case then your love for her will slip away proportionally.

Your trust for her is gone and you believe it possible that after things smooth out for her she will do it again, or spend her life longing to.

Love, trust, respect what else can you build a relationship on?

My thought is always if you believe with a high level of probability that she can deal with her issues and not repeat the behavior, and that you will have a level of connection with her that honestly would be hard to replace, then maybe reconciliation should be considered.

But if either of these are missing then you have had your warning.

Whatever you decide you BOTH "Got to have the want too".

I wish you well,

Take care!


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## poppoppop

Thanks for all your kind words and replies. 

It seems like we have some sort of development each day. Today was the first day we had a conversation that wasn't about the affair. (We did talk about the affair at length). It was actually a relief to not be talking about that and just have small talk. This whole thing has been exhausting. 

Everyday I talk to her, I test her to see if she's being honest and the last few days, she seems to be being forthcoming. I did ask her how she feels about me and her answer actually made a lot of sense to me. She said if she told me that she was in love with me now after saying she was not last week, I should know she is still lying and I wouldn't believe it anyway. She also said that she obviously wouldn't have been able to do this in the first place if she was in love with me. 

I asked her if she was in love with the OM, and she said no. She explained how she might have been before, but now that she knows he lied to her and that he told the OMW that she is obsessed with him (all her text show he pursued her) she is done with him. She said, at this point, she's not in love with the OM and she's not in love with me, but wants to see if there can love between us again. She also said that she wants to come back home but knows that we will go right back unless we start over as two people who are dating. We talked a lot about the issues we had before the affair. She said she needs to see a therapist and work on her issues. She also said I need to be able to have time to work on mine. 

I guess we are just a former couple that is now separated and have the possibility of dating in the future.


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## Mustbecrazy

PopPop,

I am in awe of the strength you've shown during this. A guy who can handle your situation as you have done has a spine of steel, and a lot of Alpha. That being said, one of your prior posts indicated that you were having difficulty dealing with your wife sexually before all this started.. If you want your WW, or any woman, to see you as a husband and not just a nanny, you need to fix this. You might consider checking out the Married Man's Sex Life forum, which is frequently mentioned in these threads. I've learned a lot from people on that forum about issues of attraction and general relationship maintenance as well as crisis intervention. I wish you well.


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## maincourse99

I would be concerned that all she'll end up doing is finding another AP since this last one crashed and burned. She's gotten a taste of it, few things match the rush of an affair. Be very careful.


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## warlock07

How is she different from OM?


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## Chaparral

You mentioned earlier, that you could not get over you sexual problems and didid not have sex for over a year with your wife. I believe this would have a devastating effect on her self esteem and how she came to feel like you were in a brother sister relationship.
Have you talked to a counselor about this? Saying you love someone doesn't mean much without the actions that follow that up.


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## LostViking

Chaparral said:


> You mentioned earlier, that you could not get over you sexual problems and didid not have sex for over a year with your wife. I believe this would have a devastating effect on her self esteem and how she came to feel like you were in a brother sister relationship.
> Have you talked to a counselor about this? Saying you love someone doesn't mean much without the actions that follow that up.


There was no sex because there was no love. Her fault as much as his.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mustbecrazy

My reading of PopPopPop's description of their physical relationship was that he wasn't interested. It's not normal for a young guy in his late twenties- early thirties to feel this way. I suspect that there's an elephant of some type the room.

I'm glad someone posted about the con artist serial cheater who went after married women. I didn't realize that there are guys like that out there. That should make all the married guys on this board shudder, and perhaps that's what PopPop's WW came up against.


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## LostViking

A man can pick up on subtle changes and attitudes in his wife. If she was detaching from him he may have price ex it and stopped being sexual towards her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

LostViking said:


> A man can pick up on subtle changes and attitudes in his wife. If she was detaching from him he may have price ex it and stopped being sexual towards her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It had something to do with her giving birth.


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## LostViking

Well then he has some hang ups be needs to address.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## herblackwings

Wow - this story parallels mine. Our family is back together but who knows where it'll go. It's strange being with her. I moved out and was cool with walking away but the kids changed my mind. So now I'm staying for the kids. We are in brother/sister or business partner like relationship with infrequent sex - once every 3-4 weeks. MC did nothing for us. And the trust is gone. Knowing how easy it was got her to stray I am anticipating it happening again. Heck she just got a new job so I know it's a matter of time before her and a co-worker are getting it on. So OP, I got no advise only an understanding of what you are going through. One thing that's helped me is just becoming more laid back. Don't let someone control your soul/heart again. Like in the movie Heat, there was a quote something like "don't ever attach to something you can't walk away from" only thing now is to focus on the kids and keeping it civil for them. They need mom and dad in this completely screwed up world. Oh and grabbing cold beers with some buds every once in a while helps too. Good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BobSimmons

poppoppop said:


> I asked her if she was in love with the OM, and she said no. She explained how she might have been before, but now that she knows he lied to her and that he told the OMW that she is obsessed with him (all her text show he pursued her) she is done with him.


Hi, just to remark on that sentence. Love is not something you can turn on and off. For me it's a very intense emotion, even if it's fantasy the emotions and the sensations they gave her were absolutely real for her, that is why she acted on it.
She was able to turn off her feelings for you, through time grow feelings for OM before acting on them.

For me, whether she "loves" him or not is neither here nor there. And what she is trying to do is "force" herself to feel something for you. Short term it may work, but long term, if she's not being true the same reasons she found so easy to turn off will still be there.
Why is she doing these little things when she says she doesn't love you, or is she doing them because you'll notice and keep things smooth? Why do little affectionate things if you're not in love with someone? Do you see my point? 

Proceed with caution. Good luck to you sir.


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## Soveryalone

The feeling of once having loved someone or even worse still deeply in love when they don't feel the same is one of the most painful experiences a person can go through in life. What is even more painful is when your spouse is in love with another person( even though on many occasions its lust and not love) I read quite a bit on this website and it breaks my heart when I read about families coming to an end. I respect those who deal with infidelity and try to make the marriage work, but I also respect and sympathize those who choose to walk away. 

I really shouldn't comment on this because I don't have any children, however the notion of keeping the family together in a loveless marriage for the kids doesn't seem very healthy. Kids no matter the ages pick up on things and believe me they are much more aware then most people give them credit for. I know when my parents divorced when I was 8 and my little sister 4 we were so young, but at 8 years old I could sense there was something wrong with mom and dad , and that feeling was so very horrible, and even at that age I felt relieved when dad told us he wasn't going to live with us anymore. 

I am at work so I wasn't able to read every single post on this thread, however I will later , but I got the gist of things and I do feel horribly that another family is devastated by infidelity. I know its hard to process, I know when your spouse whom you trusted and loved deeply at one point betrays you , its pretty much impossible to really sort it out in your mind. I hate that people have to go through this shlt, I really do, and hate it even more when children are involved. Stay strong popopop, you have people in your corner who support you, stay strong brother


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## poppoppop

Thanks everyone for your support. 

Hang ups: Yes, I have a major hang up with sex. I didn't realize it until I started thinking about our relationship and where it had gone, but I knew I have fears. Delivery of our first child was really hard on her and I was scared my wife would die during delivery. A few months after, we tried having sex, it was painful for her. It really triggered something in me and I avoided sex (even though I wanted it). I only initiated when I wanted it intensely and even then, I felt guilt for even asking. She admitted that the first time she slept with him, she felt really guilty, ran out of the hotel room in tears, and came home. She tried to initiate sex with me when she returned because she wanted it to have been just a mistake, but I rejected her and it sent her into a tailspin of thinking that I wasn't attracted to her anymore. 

Being in love: I think when I first thought about the situation, I made it very black and white. Either you love me or you don't. I told her a story a few days ago how I was one of the faithful ones. I mentioned how I went to a bachelor party. I told her how one of the guys I didn't know very well told me he got me a lap dance but it ended up he paid for her to have sex with me and how I had to tell the stripper/prostitute, no, I'm married. My wife commented earlier that day that she thought there was nothing between us romantic, but the next day she texted me to say that she kept thinking about that incident and that it made her really jealous and upset that I was offered sex with someone else. She said that having that feeling made her think that she might have some feelings, but that they were being masked by the fantasy of being with this other guy for so long. Maybe now that he's out of the picture, she thinks she might be seeing me more clearly, which is why we are talking again. I'm not sure what the motivation is behind her saying these things, so again, taking it with a grain of salt. 

I still feel like she is sweeping things under the rug and I feel like I'm having episodes where I'm just filled with rage. Last night, we scheduled to talk at night, so we had dinner with the kids at home. After we ate, she turned on the TV and something about having affairs came on and it sent me over the edge. I left for a little while to blow off steam. Today, my son was having a tantrum when he woke up and she could not get him to stop. I walked over and calmed him down in a few seconds. It made me think of all the times I was rushing the kids out the door to school, feeding them, dressing them, brushing their teeth. Meanwhile, she was texting this guy good morning on her commute to work, then spending all day texting him non-stop. That poured right into texting him at home, while I watched the kids. I sent her an angry text this morning telling her I was enraged and she said I have every right to be and that she was sorry. My best friend said that it might seem like I'm going backwards by complaining to her, but it's actually a step forward because I'm doing something I never did before the affair...I'm venting my frustrations to her.


----------



## aug

poppoppop said:


> Thanks everyone for your support.
> 
> Hang ups: Yes, I have a major hang up with sex. I didn't realize it until I started thinking about our relationship and where it had gone, but I knew I have fears. Delivery of our first child was really hard on her and I was scared my wife would die during delivery. A few months after, we tried having sex, it was painful for her. It really triggered something in me and I avoided sex (even though I wanted it). I only initiated when I wanted it intensely and even then, I felt guilt for even asking. *She admitted that the first time she slept with him, she felt really guilty, ran out of the hotel room in tears, and came home. She tried to initiate sex with me when she returned because she wanted it to have been just a mistake, but I rejected her *and it sent her into a tailspin of thinking that I wasn't attracted to her anymore.



Yuk! Seconds. So she wanted sex with you after she had sex with the other man, her lover. Gross! Yuk, yuk, yuk...


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## badcompany

"Ummmm, your so wet hun" ...ick!


----------



## bfree

aug said:


> Yuk! Seconds. So she wanted sex with you after she had sex with the other man, her lover. Gross! Yuk, yuk, yuk...


Ah male instincts. Gotta love em. OP knew where not to tread.


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## lordmayhem

poppoppop said:


> She admitted that the first time she slept with him, she felt really guilty, *ran out of the hotel room in tears, and came home. She tried to initiate sex with me when she returned because she wanted it to have been just a mistake*, but I rejected her and it sent her into a tailspin of thinking that I wasn't attracted to her anymore.


This is complete trickle truth. Notice it's HER version trying to minimize what she has done and spare your feelings. Affair sex by its very nature is hot and steamy because of the sneaking around. All that tension is what makes it so exciting. Anyway, her version makes no sense at all. 

The real version is most likely what you see in the cheater forums where WW like to have sex with their BH after they have been with their OM.


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## warlock07

So, now she is the "I did this because you did not do this" phase ?


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## poppoppop

OP here. Well, we talked things through yesterday and today and have come to a few conclusions. She has major issues with self worth. I have major hang ups about sex. We need to put our focus on the kids. We are both seeing therapists. We were planning on seeing one together as well, but in talking, realized we were nowhere close to reconciling, so we won't be exploring that until we get to a point we both are sure we want to try. 

She said I obviously haven't made a decision to try reconciling or not because each time we talk, I go from full on divorce to wanting to be together. She said it is obvious I don't trust her, but she claims that she's been thinking of me lately and all the good traits I had that she overlooked for so long are becoming more apparent to her. She claims she still has feelings, but it doesn't mean she has decided to reconcile either because she feels there was something missing that made it ok in her mind to do this. She said she needs to explore that with her therapist and I need time to recover so this isn't the only thing I'm thinking about all day. 

She is moving in to another more permanent place soon. We agreed we would spend time apart and in a few months, we would regroup to see if we should start dating again. I asked her if I was free to date other people and she said she couldn't stop me, but would like to know if I do make that decision. She said she is only thinking about me as a possibility now and the next person she will be dating is me unless I tell her I've moved on. 

So there you have it. The cards are still not stacked in my favor. In 2 weeks, I've gone from uncovering this affair and her saying no chance of reconciling to where we are now...two people who are unsure if they even want to reconcile, but both claiming they'd like to discuss it after some time has passed.

We are officially separated but exclusively not dating yet.


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## rrrbbbttt

The only true thing you know is that YOU are not dating and having Sex yet.

Your WW is on her own.


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## bfree

poppoppop said:


> OP here. Well, we talked things through yesterday and today and have come to a few conclusions. She has major issues with self worth. I have major hang ups about sex. We need to put our focus on the kids. We are both seeing therapists. We were planning on seeing one together as well, but in talking, realized we were nowhere close to reconciling, so we won't be exploring that until we get to a point we both are sure we want to try.
> 
> She said I obviously haven't made a decision to try reconciling or not because each time we talk, I go from full on divorce to wanting to be together. She said it is obvious I don't trust her, but she claims that she's been thinking of me lately and all the good traits I had that she overlooked for so long are becoming more apparent to her. She claims she still has feelings, but it doesn't mean she has decided to reconcile either because *she feels there was something missing that made it ok in her mind to do this.* She said she needs to explore that with her therapist and I need time to recover so this isn't the only thing I'm thinking about all day.
> 
> She is moving in to another more permanent place soon. We agreed we would spend time apart and in a few months, we would regroup to see if we should start dating again. I asked her if I was free to date other people and she said she couldn't stop me, but would like to know if I do make that decision. She said she is only thinking about me as a possibility now and the next person she will be dating is me unless I tell her I've moved on.
> 
> So there you have it. The cards are still not stacked in my favor. In 2 weeks, I've gone from uncovering this affair and her saying no chance of reconciling to where we are now...two people who are unsure if they even want to reconcile, but both claiming they'd like to discuss it after some time has passed.
> 
> We are officially separated but exclusively not dating yet.


You do realize that what is missing is something internal with her. It isn't anything you could have provided for her or anyone else could either. Its something inside her that is broken and its up to her to repair it. With that said its good that she is tacling this difficult task. It might not lead you both to getting back together but it will make her a better person in the long run.


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## Mustbecrazy

Ok. I can't stand it. With all due respect, Poppoppop, it appears to me that you really, deep down somewhere, want to reconcile. You say you don't want her, and it appears that you physically and emotionally abandoned her at least a year ago, in favor of relationships with your children. This same theme is played out on these blogs countless times, except in reversed gender roles. The trouble is, children eventually leave, and all that's left are two people in an empty house with a shell of a marriage. 

I say these things because you were headed toward a seemingly amicable divorce which might have given you everything you said you wanted, but you blew things up when it appeared that your WW's relationship with the OM might work out. You say you don't want her, but your actions say that you are hell bent on making sure nobody else has her, either.

There are a lot of unanswered questions in your story. What has replaced her sexually in your life? How much internet porn are you doing? How frequently are you letting it get you off? If you haven't been wanking in front of a computer and simply have no sexual desire, have you been checked for depression or low testosterone? Are you receiving personal counseling? Was the sex ever good? We are so lacking in details about your relationship prior to the last year that giving you advice is a real crap shoot.

Yes, your wife cheated, and that's despicable. However, there are thousands of gigabytes of blogs written by men who are in utter despair and terribly lonely because their wives have emotionally and sexually abandoned them. Reverse the roles and this is your wife. 

I don't think you're getting much here except cheer leading for the destruction of your marriage. If you really want help, if there's a glimmer of hope deep inside you for an outcome favorable to your marriage, then get your ass over to the 911 section of marriedmansexlife.com, answer the triage questions to provide sufficient background (which this blog seems to lack), and start posting.


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## Chaparral

bfree said:


> You do realize that what is missing is something internal with her. It isn't anything you could have provided for her or anyone else could either. Its something inside her that is broken and its up to her to repair it. With that said its good that she is tacling this difficult task. It might not lead you both to getting back together but it will make her a better person in the long run.


The elephant in the room that is missing is that they were in a sexless marriage. What is the reason this was never resolved? If this problem isn't taken care of immediately there is no chance of a marriage.

Do you find your wife unattractive? How have you been finding a release.

How long have you not been able to have sex with her? Is it a case of ed ?


----------



## Chaparral

What Mustbecrazy said.


----------



## bfree

Chaparral said:


> The elephant in the room that is missing is that they were in a sexless marriage. What is the reason this was never resolved? If this problem isn't taken care of immediately there is no chance of a marriage.
> 
> Do you find your wife unattractive? How have you been finding a release.
> 
> How long have you not been able to have sex with her? Is it a case of ed ?


Didn't the OP state that it started after the birth of their child? It was a difficult pregnancy and birth and the OP was very afraid she wouldn't make it? Then after the birth there were some complications in the actual act of sex that caused him to be fearful for her once again? It seems then it became a cycle of mutual rejection and lack of communication. At least that's my understanding.


----------



## warlock07

poppoppop said:


> OP here. Well, we talked things through yesterday and today and have come to a few conclusions. She has major issues with self worth. I have major hang ups about sex. We need to put our focus on the kids. We are both seeing therapists. We were planning on seeing one together as well, but in talking, realized we were nowhere close to reconciling, so we won't be exploring that until we get to a point we both are sure we want to try.
> 
> She said I obviously haven't made a decision to try reconciling or not because each time we talk, I go from full on divorce to wanting to be together. She said it is obvious I don't trust her, but she claims that she's been thinking of me lately and all the good traits I had that she overlooked for so long are becoming more apparent to her. She claims she still has feelings, but it doesn't mean she has decided to reconcile either because she feels there was something missing that made it ok in her mind to do this. She said she needs to explore that with her therapist and I need time to recover so this isn't the only thing I'm thinking about all day.
> 
> She is moving in to another more permanent place soon. We agreed we would spend time apart and in a few months, we would regroup to see if we should start dating again. I asked her if I was free to date other people and she said she couldn't stop me, but would like to know if I do make that decision. She said she is only thinking about me as a possibility now and the next person she will be dating is me unless I tell her I've moved on.
> 
> So there you have it. The cards are still not stacked in my favor. In 2 weeks, I've gone from uncovering this affair and her saying no chance of reconciling to where we are now...two people who are unsure if they even want to reconcile, but both claiming they'd like to discuss it after some time has passed.
> 
> We are officially separated but exclusively not dating yet.


There is one thing you are glossing over. This is not a "We grew apart and separated" like she is trying to portray it as. This was intentional deceit on her end. You were not an option when she had the other guy. 

I think it is good that you posted here as you go through this. The first time, she was more humble and willing to do everything. The next time, she says she isn't sure and it would lying if she told you that she loved. Then this(there must be something wrong with the marriage if she did this).. 

I think she is rationalizing away more and more what she did . She always had the option to separate or divorce . Yet, she chose to cheat and deceive and it took snooping on your part to find it out.. Think about the kind of person you want to stay with for the rest of your life.


P.S: You should tell her that she shouldn't expecting any exclusivity from you, atleast for the time she was in the affair. You were in a semi-open marriage all this time without you knowing about it and she should return the favor. Don't actually do this but her reaction to this should give you some idea when her head and entitlement are..


----------



## warlock07

Mustbecrazy said:


> Ok. I can't stand it. With all due respect, Poppoppop, it appears to me that you really, deep down somewhere, want to reconcile. You say you don't want her, and it appears that you physically and emotionally abandoned her at least a year ago, in favor of relationships with your children. This same theme is played out on these blogs countless times, except in reversed gender roles. The trouble is, children eventually leave, and all that's left are two people in an empty house with a shell of a marriage.
> 
> I say these things because you were headed toward a seemingly amicable divorce which might have given you everything you said you wanted, but you blew things up when it appeared that your WW's relationship with the OM might work out. You say you don't want her, but your actions say that you are hell bent on making sure nobody else has her, either.
> 
> There are a lot of unanswered questions in your story. What has replaced her sexually in your life? How much internet porn are you doing? How frequently are you letting it get you off? If you haven't been wanking in front of a computer and simply have no sexual desire, have you been checked for depression or low testosterone? Are you receiving personal counseling? Was the sex ever good? We are so lacking in details about your relationship prior to the last year that giving you advice is a real crap shoot.
> 
> Yes, your wife cheated, and that's despicable. However, there are thousands of gigabytes of blogs written by men who are in utter despair and terribly lonely because their wives have emotionally and sexually abandoned them. Reverse the roles and this is your wife.
> 
> I don't think you're getting much here except cheer leading for the destruction of your marriage. If you really want help, if there's a glimmer of hope deep inside you for an outcome favorable to your marriage, then get your ass over to the 911 section of marriedmansexlife.com, answer the triage questions to provide sufficient background (which this blog seems to lack), and start posting.


What, as a guy he doesn't get to be affected by anything or have any emotions ? he was traumatized by the pain his wife was in during the child birth and events after that. It wasn't his libido that was the issue. Women too go through periods And she always had the option of separating from him...

Your post is so disrespectful that I don't know why I even bothered to reply to it.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

If you stay separated for any length of time, she's going to start seeing an OM.

Bank on it.


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## LostViking

She will start seeing the OM again if you two separate.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree

warlock07 said:


> There is one thing you are glossing over. This is not a "We grew apart and separated" like she is trying to portray it as. This was intentional deceit on her end. You were not an option when she had the other guy.
> 
> I think it is good that you posted here as you go through this. The first time, she was more humble and willing to do everything. The next time, she says she isn't sure and it would lying if she told you that she loved. Then this(there must be something wrong with the marriage if she did this)..
> 
> I think she is rationalizing away more and more what she did . She always had the option to separate or divorce . Yet, she chose to cheat and deceive and it took snooping on your part to find it out.. Think about the kind of person you want to stay with for the rest of your life.
> 
> 
> P.S: You should tell her that she shouldn't expecting any exclusivity from you, atleast for the time she was in the affair. You were in a semi-open marriage all this time without you knowing about it and she should return the favor. Don't actually do this but her reaction to this should give you some idea when her head and entitlement are..


This is why I believe TAM is such a great resource. I didn't even notice what Warlock is mentioning here. And he's right. She is changing her perception of the events and adding excuses along the way. This is not a good way to begin the reconciliation process. While I still think its good that she is becoming more introspective I think you need to focus completely on yourself from this point on and if she decides that she really wants you as she does even more self examination then you can consider whether she is still the person you want to be with long term. Right now if you tried to R it would more than likely fail.


----------



## Acabado

poppoppop said:


> She claims she still has feelings, but it doesn't mean she has decided to reconcile either because she feels there was *something missing that made it ok in her mind to do this.* She said she needs to explore that with her therapist and I need time to recover so this isn't the only thing I'm thinking about all day.


She's looking elsewere for thr reasons instead of within as she didn't have honorable options.
What was "missing" here was character, honesty, integrity, responsability, self respect, dignity...
If she was that unhappy she could sit you, speak her mind, demand changes, MC, a separation or simply divorce you. Not easy, very hard actually, very simple though. She's now at the same spot of deciding whether to stay or divorce, she's in the same spot of not being sure if she loves you enough to try... only she's now a cheater, there's not need to dig out thre but within.
I see very little to zero hope here, she's already telling you what is the mindset she's going to IC, to get validation, to hear she's not a bad person and that cheating was not a big deal, your shortcomings, the bad marriage "made her". She's seeking confimation of the "natural", almost mechanical nature of the cheating as consequence of something external. IC, by the nature of their work put aside moral, they can't get the client trust otherwise, It will be everything about her unhappiness and the side effect of dealing with cognitive disonance and the shift of enotional focus towards OM will be ignored.

Unless she's brave and humble enough to own her stuff there's no hope here.

It's very disturbing, she's checked out indeed and focused on what makes her happy, the fact she sees "some hope" in the fact she felt "something" when she heard you could cheat on her at that bachelor party is very telling. I think she will use IC to tell herself she tried, the cheating will be forgotten and the divorce will be for any other reason.


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## happyman64

And if there are boundaries being set between you two then you should put them in writing for both of you.

I say this because your wife has already shown you what she thinks of boundaries and being honest.

She needs to stay in IC.

And you use the time to decide what you can live with.

You have plenty of time.


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## Jasel

poppoppop said:


> We agreed we would spend time apart and in a few months, we would regroup to see if we should start dating again. I asked her if I was free to date other people and she said she couldn't stop me, but would like to know if I do make that decision. She said she is only thinking about me as a possibility now and the next person she will be dating is me unless I tell her I've moved on.


1. (I'm saying this not sure if you're in the US or a country where there has to be a required time period of separation before a divorce can be initiated so if it's the latter ignore this.)

Like others have said I think you want to reconcile more than you're willing to admit, which is fine but separating for a few months and then trying to "regroup" is not going to do anything except hurt your chances with that. Your wife has proven to be deceitful and more than capable of lying. You're just giving her and the OM more of an opportunity to reach out to each other if anything. Or just find someone else entirely without addressing her issues. All a separation is most likely going to accomplish is you guys spinning each others wheels and wasting time that could be used towards divorce or working on your marriage (although she could use a healthy dose of IC no matter what she does I think).

2. You don't need to ask her if you should be free to do anything regarding seeing other people. She should not be the one dictating the terms of the reconciliation or separation, and you certainly shouldn't be putting the ball in her court as far as what those terms are. She's the one who betrayed you. She's the one who lied to you. She's the one who valued another man above you. She's probably lost more respect for you than you have for her, despite what she's done to you. You need to get that respect back whether you R or D.

3. Ya she's only thinking about you as a possibility, not until you say you've moved on however. Most likely until she feels has better options. Actions speak louder than words, especially coming from a cheating spouse who has lied to you repeatedly. You really need to start taking what she tells you, promises you, agrees to, or says she feels with a grain of salt.


----------



## Jung_admirer

Acabado said:


> IC, by the nature of their work put aside moral, they can't get the client trust otherwise, It will be everything about her unhappiness and the side effect of dealing with cognitive dissonance and the shift of emotional focus towards OM will be ignored.
> 
> *Unless she's brave and humble enough to own her stuff *there's no hope here.


How crazy is it that the happiness the wayward partner is seeking is a distraction (coping) to avoid facing the internal issues that brought about the emotional disconnect that ultimately allowed the infidelity to happen?

Cheaters are not defective in any real sense. They have a subconscious deficit that demands attention. There are only two ways I know to deal with this: 1) Take ownership of your personal psychology 2) Engage in distraction

Reconciliation is insanity (taking the same action and expecting a different result) unless BOTH partners commit to "owning their own stuff". /Mil Gracias Acabado/


----------



## workindad

Op do not be surprised but Om will be in her bed again sooner than you think if you stay separated.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## herblackwings

She will be with the OM during seperation. My wife was and it made the seperation super easy for her. On the days I picked up the kids shed be texting him in front of me and was all dolled up for the nights events. On my free nights I had my hand. Granted I could have found someone to date but being out of that game for ten years makes that difficult - especially for men. So if you do seperate know that she'll be getting action, you won't (not initially unless you have something lined up already) and this could drive you insane if you are emotionally attached still. Good luck .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## poppoppop

Bfree: Thanks, I'm going to check it out. There is the possibility of low testosterone or depression (both would make sense). It's also true that there is a strong urge for me to reconcile. I'm just trying to determine if I want to reconcile because the initial discovery of this affair was followed with the choice to go with the OM. I think it's possible that set me off and made me think she belonged with me and the kids. So that might be the reason for leaning towards reconciliation. I just haven't had the clarity to determine that yet. Am I still in love with her? It's crazy, but yes, I am most definitely still in love with her. 

Did I replace her sexually? It's really strange, but I would go to bed and most nights think that I would try to have sex with her, but not even make the attempt. Yes, I would get up in the night and take care of myself maybe 2x's a week. My wife is very attractive. We took a trip to Vegas earlier in the year, and it was a constant barrage of guys hitting on her (either me or one of my guy friends would always have to be with her or she would be getting hit on). I never lost the desire to have sex with her, but when I was actually lying there in bed with her, I'd get so anxious thinking about that look on her face when the baby was being delivered, it would stop me from trying. 

Her issues stem from her upbringing. She often mentioned how her mother would criticize her looks growing up. (You're so pretty...if you're nose was a little smaller, you would be really pretty.) She also said her first boyfriend in high school would put her down and was hitting her. He got her pregnant and did not even pick her up from the abortion clinic after. She took a bus home by herself. She gained some weight after that and developed body images. She's been skinny since before I met her, but she sees herself as having a "gross" body. I often notice her with a concerned look on her face when she sees herself in the mirror. 

The thing is, this entire time, we still were friendly...talked often and laughed a lot. It was only within the last few weeks she had withdrawn a lot, which spiked my suspicions. Because we weren't fighting, it didn't seem like our problems were that bad to me. More like a dry spell than the road to divorce. This affair has obviously cast a light on all the problems we have as individuals and how those affected our relationship with each other. Again, the affair was all her fault. There's no way I would have ever done that to her. She knows this and anytime it comes up, she apologizes. This is something we will both need to explore on our own. How did she go from talking to a coworker to actually falling in love with him? How did she even leave herself open to that possibility?


----------



## poppoppop

Herblackwings: Wow, that is super sad. I'm really sorry that happened. I think it might be different in my case. It appears the OM actually dumped her and went back to his wife. His wife contacted me to tell me as well. I can see the anger in my wife when she talks about him now. I think it helped that one of her coworkers asked her if there was something going on between them and that there were rumors the OM had cheated on his wife with other coworkers in the past. I think that was disturbing enough for her that she plans on staying away from him. She keeps saying how she feels embarrassed and manipulated by the OM. She knows she will bump into him at one of these meetings again and has already come up with what she will say to him to diffuse the situation. 

Then again, I never thought she was capable of this, so I don't trust my own judgment either.


----------



## bfree

poppoppop said:


> Herblackwings: Wow, that is super sad. I'm really sorry that happened. I think it might be different in my case. It appears the OM actually dumped her and went back to his wife. His wife contacted me to tell me as well. I can see the anger in my wife when she talks about him now. I think it helped that one of her coworkers asked her if there was something going on between them and that there were rumors the OM had cheated on his wife with other coworkers in the past. I think that was disturbing enough for her that she plans on staying away from him. She keeps saying how she feels embarrassed and manipulated by the OM. She knows she will bump into him at one of these meetings again and has already come up with what she will say to him to diffuse the situation.
> 
> Then again, I never thought she was capable of this, so I don't trust my own judgment either.


You do realize that if you do reconcile she has to go complete NC with him. That means not even seeing him or even hearing his name uttered. In other words, if they are still working together she has to quit her job. There is no way around this for either of you.


----------



## poppoppop

The NC issue...I'm not sure how to get around it. There is no way she would leave her job. She's got a really good job right now and is likely to get a promotion very soon. Sad to say, but the reality is that her job is more important to her than I am right now. 

In the next 6 months, there will be at least 2 meetings they will both attend. There is also the possibility of him showing up at her office (she said it's happened before). 

I never even talked about NC/writing a NC letter because he already told her he was going back to his family and because I know they will come across one another in the future. In fact, she has to do a presentation to the group he leads at the next meeting.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

poppoppop said:


> The NC issue...I'm not sure how to get around it. There is no way she would leave her job. She's got a really good job right now and is likely to get a promotion very soon. Sad to say, but the reality is that *her job is more important to her than I am right now. *
> 
> *In the next 6 months, there will be at least 2 meetings they will both attend. There is also the possibility of him showing up at her office (she said it's happened before).*
> 
> *I never even talked about NC/writing a NC letter because he already told her he was going back to his family and because I know they will come across one another in the future. In fact, she has to do a presentation to the group he leads at the next meeting.*


I've got news for you, the OM's more important to her also.

Don't try kidding yourself. If the OM came a callin' Tomorrow, she'd be back under him faster than you could say joc robinson.

Yes, she's p!ssed at the OM now, but he could smooth it over with her easily enough. Especially if she's living on her own during your "separation".

Try not to act too surprised if it happens. At that point the best thing you could do is not show any emotion in front of her.

I'm sorry if what I've been posting(and others) seems to be too harsh. We know what you're going through and from what you've written so far - I(and others) don't see much hope for a R. At least not right now.

Once you are separated for a few more months you'll understand.

Sorry, I do feel for you.


----------



## rrrbbbttt

I think you have answered your questions on what is important to you and your wife, "Marriage" or the "Important Job"?

Wish you well.

When you are older look back on this and think about the path not taken.


----------



## bfree

poppoppop said:


> The NC issue...I'm not sure how to get around it. There is no way she would leave her job. She's got a really good job right now and is likely to get a promotion very soon. Sad to say, but the reality is that her job is more important to her than I am right now.


Then there is no chance for reconciliation. If you are not the most important aspect of her life than you don't and never will have a marriage. And think about this for a minute. Most likely there is some form of discipline if she and her AP were to get caught having a workplace affair. At the very least her pending promotion would be in jeapordy. Yet she seems to have no problem putting the OM before her job. What does that tell you?


----------



## warlock07

poppoppop said:


> The NC issue...I'm not sure how to get around it. There is no way she would leave her job. She's got a really good job right now and is likely to get a promotion very soon. Sad to say, but the reality is that her job is more important to her than I am right now.
> 
> In the next 6 months, there will be at least 2 meetings they will both attend. There is also the possibility of him showing up at her office (she said it's happened before).
> 
> I never even talked about NC/writing a NC letter because he already told her he was going back to his family and because I know they will come across one another in the future. In fact, she has to do a presentation to the group he leads at the next meeting.



You are coming to a realization aren't you ? Where do you stand in her life and priorities ?

Maybe she is trying to make sure that you won't expose her at the job and cause issues there. Do you still have the evidence ?

If she is still angry at him for his other affairs, this is not the last you will hear of it.


----------



## Mustbecrazy

Dude, if you want to save this, then you have to become the most Alpha guy in your wife's life. No more critical moments of neglect. You will continue to be her plan B unless you have a plan of action to build your own self respect and her respect for you. Also, my wife had 3 kids without any pain meds whatsoever, and having witnessed these events, I can assure you that her pain during delivery made a much greater impression on you than on her. Get some counseling and get over it. Better yet, talk to her about it. You need to reach a point where all of your orgasms are with her. Relieving yourself kills your desire and stops your pursuit of her dead in the water. You've got a job to do. I'm really pulling for your marriage, but it's going to be painful and a lot of work. See my prior post for a resource.


----------



## warlock07

poppoppop said:


> The NC issue...I'm not sure how to get around it. There is no way she would leave her job. She's got a really good job right now and is likely to get a promotion very soon. Sad to say, but the reality is that her job is more important to her than I am right now.
> 
> In the next 6 months, there will be at least 2 meetings they will both attend. There is also the possibility of him showing up at her office (she said it's happened before).
> 
> I never even talked about NC/writing a NC letter because he already told her he was going back to his family and because I know they will come across one another in the future. In fact, she has to do a presentation to the group he leads at the next meeting.



She started this job in February and started an affair immediately ?


----------



## poppoppop

She's been at the same company for years now. The job she has there is fairly new (about a year and a half). That is when the traveling started. The affair started last October through text messages and became physical in December. She broke it off at that point and then he got very aggressive and it started up again in March. That is when it went into full speed. 

I'm fully aware I'm not priority #1 or #2. I am convinced the OM is suffering at home and doing his best to win back his wife/family because the OMW and my wife have given me updates which were consistent. Will the OM try something again with my wife? I think he absolutely will. If he didn't I'd be surprised. I told her he's going to come up to her, say sorry and then ask if they can talk. He will tell her how he is still in love with her and try to convince her to take it underground until they can be with each other. She has adamantly said there is no way she would ever go back to him, because the part she was attracted to about him was that he told her he would leave his wife and take care of her, which he has now admitted to lying about. And now she knows he's a serial cheater, she says she is grossed out by him. Again, who knows? She's a known liar now too. 

I've thought of hiring a private investigator or following her to a meeting myself. In the end, I realize if she is going to cheat again, she is going to cheat. She's just gonna be better at it at this point because she now knows all the ways you can get caught. I'm moving on and if we work something out in the end, then I'll worry about the OM at that point. I've exposed him for what he is and she is aware of all the lies he's told and his history of being a serial cheater with coworkers. If she wants him at this point, she's not someone I would want to be with anyway. I do want to reconcile, but I'm not ready for that. She's not ready for that. 

I do still have evidence at work, but because people are already talking, she knows she is under a microscope. Her work's only policy is no dating your direct manager. Even her promotion, there's no one else in line to get it and the person currently with that position is getting a promotion. There would likely be no repercussions at work other than all the whispers and glances. In terms of what is more important at this point, the marriage or her job? As I see it, we don't have a marriage. 

I'm in therapy to see if there's a way to overcome the whole issue I had with child birth, not to mention this affair. I'm job hunting like crazy. I'm waiting for my dad to come help out so I can join a gym. Do I want to reconcile? Yes. Am I going to now? No. What I'm going to do now is try to work on myself and give my kids extra love and attention.


----------



## weightlifter

Pop.

Generically where are you? IE NYC metro or CA or SE England... What Im getting at is the individual divorce laws and infidelity.

Your thread has some similarities to others.

Was the Dec fling a one time thing until March?

Ugh I hate friend players. Player 101. Easy, effective, evil.


----------



## poppoppop

weightlifter said:


> Pop.
> 
> Generically where are you? IE NYC metro or CA or SE England... What Im getting at is the individual divorce laws and infidelity.
> 
> Your thread has some similarities to others.
> 
> Was the Dec fling a one time thing until March?
> 
> Ugh I hate friend players. Player 101. Easy, effective, evil.


I am in the San Francisco Bay Area. The OM is in Florida. Yes the incident in December was a one time thing and although she didn't tell me at the time, she came back to me at that time and made attempts to rekindle our marriage. Not knowing she was doing this, I didn't know that she had these feelings. In January, she did try. By February, the OM was sending her texts regularly and calling her at work everyday. She told him no but by March when she knew she would be seeing him soon, that is when she decided her life was better with him. She fell in love with him and they spent a week together.

After that, they were together very regularly and now I know some of these trips that he did not have to go to for work, they made plans for him to go anyway. In 5 weeks from now, they are going to be at a company wide meeting out of town. She claims he has had no contact and that she is dreading having to see him, but I know that by revealing it, I made it end abruptly, and my fear now is that even if she is being truthful about not wanting to be with him, her desire to be is still there and he is going to continue doing what he's always done: pursue her once they get there. I've considered hiring a private detective to watch them. I've considered going there myself. Several years ago, I went to this same meeting with her and she was reprimanded at work for bringing her spouse (the company frowned upon it because she did not attend dinners and networking events so she could be with me.). I know if I showed up, it would end any chance at R. 

Honestly, at this point, I'm not seeing too great a chance at R. I'm at the point it seems like I'm doing the work and it's so taxing. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dyokemm

Your WW's priorities are too screwed up to even warrant an attempt at R from what you have shared.

Divorce her as fast as you possibly can.

I have no doubt that she will one day look back at this entire episode and regret it deeply.

You will be happy with someone else and nearly entirely out of her life (only the occasional event for kids), she will almost undoubtedly have very strained relationships with her children because they will grow up and realize what she did to the family.

And all she will have to show for that will be some sordid memories of lustful sessions with a worthless, serial cheating POS who she will have not seen in years.

I would hate to be in her position at that time.


----------



## tom67

Dyokemm said:


> Your WW's priorities are too screwed up to even warrant an attempt at R from what you have shared.
> 
> Divorce her as fast as you possibly can.
> 
> I have no doubt that she will one day look back at this entire episode and regret it deeply.
> 
> You will be happy with someone else and nearly entirely out of her life (only the occasional event for kids), she will almost undoubtedly have very strained relationships with her children because they will grow up and realize what she did to the family.
> 
> And all she will have to show for that will be some sordid memories of lustful sessions with a worthless, serial cheating POS who she will have not seen in years.
> 
> I would hate to be in her position at that time.


SIGH:iagree::iagree:


----------



## bfree

poppoppop said:


> I am in the San Francisco Bay Area. The OM is in Florida. Yes the incident in December was a one time thing and although she didn't tell me at the time, she came back to me at that time and made attempts to rekindle our marriage. Not knowing she was doing this, I didn't know that she had these feelings. In January, she did try. By February, the OM was sending her texts regularly and calling her at work everyday. She told him no but by March when she knew she would be seeing him soon, that is when she decided her life was better with him. She fell in love with him and they spent a week together.
> 
> After that, they were together very regularly and now I know some of these trips that he did not have to go to for work, they made plans for him to go anyway. In 5 weeks from now, they are going to be at a company wide meeting out of town. She claims he has had no contact and that she is dreading having to see him, but I know that by revealing it, I made it end abruptly, and my fear now is that even if she is being truthful about not wanting to be with him, her desire to be is still there and he is going to continue doing what he's always done: pursue her once they get there. I've considered hiring a private detective to watch them. I've considered going there myself. Several years ago, I went to this same meeting with her and she was reprimanded at work for bringing her spouse (the company frowned upon it because she did not attend dinners and networking events so she could be with me.). I know if I showed up, it would end any chance at R.
> 
> Honestly, at this point, I'm not seeing too great a chance at R. I'm at the point it seems like I'm doing the work and it's so taxing.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Can you tell me again why this hasn't been exposed at work? Why is she still working there if there is potential contact? If you're going to divorce then do it and then you need not worry about her job, meetings or the OM. Honestly I'm thinking that this half way R you are attempting is just you wasting time while you work up the courage to file. If that is the case please stop torturing yourself and do it.


----------



## happyman64

> Honestly, at this point, I'm not seeing too great a chance at R. I'm at the point it seems like I'm doing the work and it's so taxing.


I do not agree with you.

Your wife is in the fog.

She is a business woman. Have you sat down with her and asked her to look at these relationships like a business venture.

On your hand you have years of dating/marriage/children/family.

On the other hand you have an affair of a few months with lying, deceit and sex. A total fantasy. A total sham.

Oh I forgot, she is love with the OM. Yes a man that lies to his wife and cheats on her.

Your marriage is fractured because she lied and cheated and you did not put your foot down when you first felt those tinglings in your gut.

So PopPop the decision is yours.

Do you still love your wife and want to be married to her?

Can you work on the marriage for a year or two to see if it can be repaired? And not do it just for your kids?

Is your wife smart enough and love you enough to be honest, find a new job and work on the marriage as well?

It takes hard work from both of you?

And honestly you just found out a few weeks ago. These are big decisions so do not rush to them.

IMO I would do everything in my power to get this guy fired so he would be out of the picture.

I knew of one man who got on a plane without his wifes knowledge and met with the OM and the OMW. The OMW knew beforehand.

They say down like adults. He made it quite clear what would happen if the OM continued pursuit of his wife. 

Then he laid the evidence out on the table from the PI including expense receipts that the OM falsified.

They never heard from the OM again.

There is nothing wrong with walking away from a marriage due to infidelity. Some BS's cannot forgive infidelity. Just give these decisions some time.

HM64


----------



## bfree

Happy,

Normally I agree with you but in this case there is all the potential in the world for Pop's wife to have further contact with her AP. The more contact they have (with Pop essentially allowing it by not imposing consequences) the less chance there is of a successful R. So he needs to decide soon what path he is going to take and then dive in head first before she loses what little respect she may still have for him. If I were in his position I would file and see her reaction. If she wants to save this marriage he can simply say step 1 is to quit your job. If she refuses then she really isn't interested in staying married to him.


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## azteca1986

poppoppop said:


> She claims he has had no contact and that *she is dreading having to see him*, but I know that by revealing it, I made it end abruptly, and my fear now is that even if she is being truthful about not wanting to be with him, her desire to be is still there and he is going to continue doing what he's always done: pursue her once they get there. *I've considered hiring a private detective to watch them. I've considered going there myself.*


Have you considered that if your WW was serious about R she'd change her job?


----------



## fragile37

Wow, carmen_ohio, you are a very wise person. 



carmen ohio said:


> Dear poppoppop.
> 
> I won't give you a lecture on this but I will note that we are all the product of millions of years of evolution and that, as a species, we are hardwired to have certain feelings. As a result, woman tend to be more attracted to men who display certain traits and child rearing and financial dependency are not on the list.
> 
> Whether you decide to try to reconcile or not with your WW, you need to rethink your lifestyle choice. If you divorce, when you start dating again, you will not want to have to tell prospective paramours that you are a SAHD who depends on your ex for sustenance.
> 
> My advice would be, when the dust settles a bit, to start looking for employment opportunities that up your earning potential.


----------



## Shaggy

If you want to R, then you need to be changing the way both of you prioritize the marriage over things like work.

You've protected the OM , her, and the affair at work by not exposing. You've chosen her current job over yourself and the marriage.

You've also decided to let her continue the exact type of trips with the OM that enabled the affair.

In the long run that will highly likely be why R will fail. You're trying to cake eat in that you want to R, but you aren't willing to burn a few bridges to get it.

1. Unless your wife is the CEO there are other companies she can work at, such as her companies #1 competitor.

2. You still can go on the trip and she can still attend the dinners, she's just got to be back with you after the dinner, not out drinking and hooking up. This would also give you the opportunity to for the OM to know you are there. Every other time you've been safely far away.


----------



## AlphaHalf

Your setting yourself up for failure. She is lying to you to keep you quiet about exposing her at Work. Plain and simple. Your all to eager to make excuses for her and believe whatever scraps of truth she decides to toss at you. 

In the current state of the marriage, how can you lose what you don't have to begin with? Don't even try to fool yourself into thinking you can trust her at her job again. 

IMHO, If you know your not her first priority then you also should know that hanging around is basically being her "B!%ch". Its sound harsh but that's what it looks like from the outside looking in.

.


----------



## alte Dame

I'm hoping that you will set aside some time, some serious time, to regroup at this point.

This has all happened very quickly and most of what you are doing is purely reactive. Why not take some time to let your emotions settle in, to discover your real anger about this, for example? Your disappointment, your indignation.

I say this because it appears to me that your WW has been in control of everything right from the get-go. She is now in control of your dialog, even the bits where you enlighten her about the true nature of her POSOM. She is using your nature to lead the two of you where she wants to go & all the while you think you have some semblance of control.

Take some quiet time to look at the entire sweep of what she has done from the start of her A to now. Consider how she has manipulated you. Look at it and then think about what you really want for you and your children. Don't let her lead you anywhere. Think hard and deeply about just you and the kids. Don't hear her voice. Ask yourself what you want and what is right for you.

Your WW is a sly one, in my opinion. She manages to present herself to you as a person of dignity even when she is acting like a cheap piece for a serially cheating MOM. Stop letting her define the terms. You are waiting for her to 'see the light' and she knows that and is playing it for all it's worth. I wouldn't believe anything she says. Try instead to figure out what you believe, what you want.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

poppoppop said:


> I am in the San Francisco Bay Area. The OM is in Florida. Yes the incident in *December was a one time thing* and although she didn't tell me at the time, she came back to me at that time and made attempts to rekindle our marriage. Not knowing she was doing this, I didn't know that she had these feelings. In January, she did try. *By February, the OM was sending her texts regularly and calling her at work everyday.* *She told him no but by March when she knew she would be seeing him soon, that is when she decided her life was better with him. She fell in love with him and they spent a week together.*
> 
> After that, they were together very regularly and now I know some of these trips that he did not have to go to for work, they made plans for him to go anyway. *In 5 weeks from now, they are going to be at a company wide meeting out of town.* She claims he has had no contact and that she is dreading having to see him, but I know that by revealing it, I made it end abruptly, and my fear now is that even if she is being truthful about not wanting to be with him, her desire to be is still there and *he is going to continue doing what he's always done: pursue her once they get there.* I've considered hiring a private detective to watch them. I've considered going there myself. Several years ago, I went to this same meeting with her and she was reprimanded at work for bringing her spouse *(the company frowned upon it because she did not attend dinners and networking events so she could be with me.).* I know if I showed up, it would end any chance at R.
> 
> *Honestly, at this point, I'm not seeing too great a chance at R.* I'm at the point it seems like I'm doing the work and it's so taxing.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Read the bold print again. When she goes on this trip you KNOW what's going to happen, don't you.

Even if they don't have sex again at that meeting, it will plant the seeds of future deceits...

As far as her company not letting spouses go, did she ever show you an email, or memo on this? That one makes me wonder a little...

In the last bold line you said you're not seeing too great a chance at R. That's because there isn't any. Not right now anyway.

Your wife needs to step up to the plate on the R front and I don't see that happening.

You may want to call her works HR department and anonymously request their policy on two employees engaging in an affair during off-site meeting, but not on company time.

I realize that you don't want your WS to loose here job, but if her and the OM are allowed to continue to attend off-site meetings and their employer is unaware of what has already gone on... Well, it's going to continue, no matter if she sworn otherwise.


----------



## poppoppop

Thanks to everyone for your replies. I did what one poster suggested. I called her work's HR department to find out the policy. However, unless I could confirm who I was or who my wife was, they were unwilling to share the policy. However, the HR person did say there is a policy in place for such a thing and that there IS a form of disciplinary action. I'm guessing that would be my wife getting fired because the OM is higher up than her. 

Not planning on using that information as another poster has said, I'm being too reactive lately and not thinking out my decisions. But it's good to know I have that in my pocket. 

Regarding whether or not there was ever an email or memo or something...I know they did not like me coming to the meetings because her manager at the time came up to me at a function and explained it to me very apologetically. 

At this point, I don't really feel like it's even time to R. I think because I'm so manic, I don't know where I'm shooting, so I'm trying to do everything all at once. But yeah, my mind is no where near figuring out what I should do. I'm gonna spend my energies towards walking away from her. Yes, I still lover her, but it's been too much for me to figure out while I still have contact with her.


----------



## vi_bride04

azteca1986 said:


> Have you considered that if your WW was serious about R she'd change her job?


:iagree:

Especially if she was "dreading" him so much


----------



## Jung_admirer

poppoppop said:


> Thanks to everyone for your replies. I did what one poster suggested. I called her work's HR department to find out the policy. However, unless I could confirm who I was or who my wife was, they were unwilling to share the policy. However, the HR person did say there is a policy in place for such a thing and that there IS a form of disciplinary action. I'm guessing that would be my wife getting fired because the OM is higher up than her.


I wouldn't be too certain about that. At my place of work, we just fired a president (male, married) for having a PA with a sales director (female, single). No obvious action was taken against the sales director.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Just found out about my wife cheating*



Jung_admirer said:


> I wouldn't be too certain about that. At my place of work, we just fired a president (male, married) for having a PA with a sales director (female, single). No obvious action was taken against the sales director.


Yes usually it's the person in the higher position that gets terminated. Sometimes both do but it's just as likely that Pop's wife will be suspended and/or put on probation.


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## whowouldhavethought

poppoppop said:


> However, the HR person did say there is a policy in place for such a thing and that there IS a form of disciplinary action. * I'm guessing that would be my wife getting fired because the OM is higher up than her. *


*WRONG. *The higher up would be fired as it would be assumed he/she used his/her position to compel the affair.

WWHT


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

poppoppop said:


> Thanks to everyone for your replies. I did what one poster suggested. I called her work's HR department to find out the policy. However, unless I could confirm who I was or who my wife was, they were unwilling to share the policy. However, the HR person did say there is a policy in place for such a thing and that there IS a form of disciplinary action. I'm guessing that would be my wife getting fired because the OM is higher up than her.
> 
> *Not planning on using that information as another poster has said, I'm being too reactive lately and not thinking out my decisions.* But it's good to know I have that in my pocket.
> 
> Regarding whether or not there was ever an email or memo or something...I know they did not like me coming to the meetings because her manager at the time came up to me at a function and explained it to me very apologetically.
> 
> At this point, I don't really feel like it's even time to R. I think because I'm so manic, I don't know where I'm shooting, so I'm trying to do everything all at once. But yeah, my mind is no where near figuring out what I should do. I'm gonna spend my energies towards walking away from her. Yes, I still lover her, but it's been too much for me to figure out while I still have contact with her.


So the affair continues... You should get your cannons powdered and primed for battle. I doubt that you'll be able to handle the stress from her and the OM going to out of state, off site meetings for long and you will file for D then.

Even if she's not doing anything wrong with the OM during these meetings(and it's more likely that she will), you're mind movies will take over and... well, we know how it ends.

You'll more than likely get a 2nd "My wife is saying she loves me, but is not in love anymore." speech with in the next 6-12 months, if you don't leave before.

Sorry, but this is the way I see it and I feel for you, I really do.


----------



## poppoppop

The OM is higher up, but she does not report to him in any way. They're part of two entirely different departments. I do think that some form of discipline would occur to both...I just don't know what that is. At the very least, it would tarnish the way they are seen at work by their peers. 

At this point, I realized that this whole time, I have still played the same role I did when this all happened. I'm the one that supports her by taking care of the kids. I'm the one she can rely on to do whatever she can not. She's really scared of being by herself. All week, she's been staying in an empty house with nothing but a bed and we are still texting at night so someone knows she is safe. She came to see the kids tonight and have dinner and that's all stuff she can always expect from me. 

I decided tonight that we are getting a divorce. I asked if she had feelings for the OM and after a long pause, she said, "I don't know." Then she followed up by saying, "How can I know when everything it was based on was a lie?" I said, "Well, that's how you SHOULD know." I asked if she had any feelings for me and she said, "It's hard to tell because I haven't REALLY lost you." I told her let's stop fooling ourselves with this R nonsense and start acting like we know where this is going, divorce. She's planning on renting an apartment tomorrow. Is there a possibility of R? She keeps saying so, but for the first time since she started paying me compliments, I really feel like there is no chance because that answer tonight killed any bit of hope I had left. I thought I was her 3rd or 4th priority over the kids, work, and the OM. But tonight, I realized that above all else, her priority is herself. If one of those things would be easiest for her to cut out, it would be me. So before we even try R, I'm calling it off. It's over. 

Just a side note: Earlier today, I saw two girls talking and walked up and started a conversation, just to try flirting. It felt nerve racking and a little awkward at first, but by the time I left, they were smiling and laughing and asking me questions about me. It felt good.


----------



## Headspin

poppoppop said:


> The OM is higher up, but she does not report to him in any way. They're part of two entirely different departments. I do think that some form of discipline would occur to both...I just don't know what that is. At the very least, it would tarnish the way they are seen at work by their peers.
> 
> At this point, I realized that this whole time, I have still played the same role I did when this all happened. I'm the one that supports her by taking care of the kids. I'm the one she can rely on to do whatever she can not. She's really scared of being by herself. All week, she's been staying in an empty house with nothing but a bed and we are still texting at night so someone knows she is safe. She came to see the kids tonight and have dinner and that's all stuff she can always expect from me.
> 
> I decided tonight that we are getting a divorce. I asked if she had feelings for the OM and after a long pause, she said, "I don't know." Then she followed up by saying, "How can I know when everything it was based on was a lie?" I said, "Well, that's how you SHOULD know." I asked if she had any feelings for me and she said, "It's hard to tell because I haven't REALLY lost you." I told her let's stop fooling ourselves with this R nonsense and start acting like we know where this is going, divorce. She's planning on renting an apartment tomorrow. Is there a possibility of R? She keeps saying so, but for the first time since she started paying me compliments, I really feel like there is no chance because that answer tonight killed any bit of hope I had left. I thought I was her 3rd or 4th priority over the kids, work, and the OM. But tonight, I realized that above all else, her priority is herself. If one of those things would be easiest for her to cut out, it would be me. So before we even try R, I'm calling it off. It's over.
> 
> Just a side note: Earlier today, I saw two girls talking and walked up and started a conversation, just to try flirting. It felt nerve racking and a little awkward at first, but by the time I left, they were smiling and laughing and asking me questions about me. It felt good.


Pops, You know the phrase 'pissing in the wind'

"...I realized that above all else, her priority is herself."

You will begin to see full on that this is not new but has been the case for a long time , you have just flitted in and around that.

This stage is hardcore I think you are about to discover many things you took as given .......were/ are not 

You will still go back and forth but I suspect you are coming to the correct ultimate decision

Feel for you


----------



## Will_Kane

poppoppop said:


> I asked if she had any feelings for me and she said, "It's hard to tell because I haven't REALLY lost you."


----------



## happyman64

> I realized that above all else, her priority is herself. If one of those things would be easiest for her to cut out, it would be me. So before we even try R, I'm calling it off. It's over.


Your wife feels entitled.

It sounds like you know she has to lose you before she ever realizes just what she had to begin with.

So show her those consequences and do not look back.

HM


----------



## Shaggy

For your kids sake report the affair to HR.

The higher up will get the more severe punishment because with higher status is also higher responsibility to not do things like cheating with coworkers.

Yes it could risk her job - that's a maybe thing.

It will drive a massive stake into the heart of the affair. 

Right now your wife is thinking she will get her apartment, hook up and try a full on relationship with the OM, and then only try R with you if that doesn't work put for her.

If you kill it and the fantasy option that will leave her with putting her effort into saving her family.

Exposing the OM and the affair is your best path forward.


----------



## Shaggy

Right now she sees your indecision to expose to HR as you being too afraid to act,


----------



## Shaggy

Btw I gather your wife is in sales?

You need to act decisively and strictly , by doing stuff like exposing to HR. she's surrounded by guys like the OM, guys that aren't afraid to act to get the result they want.

She's measuring you against him, and he's more attractive right now because he wasn't afraid to pursue her despite potential consequences like his job. 

You on the other hand are showing that you are unwilling to fight for her in the same way.


----------



## alte Dame

Not knowing because she hasn't 'really lost you' would have done it for me.

You sound articulate and smart, OP. Your WW sounds spoiled childish, and manipulative. Have you ever thought of yourselves as a mismatch before? You appear that way to me.

I would definitely hold firm with the D. I'm sorry for the pain this has caused you, but in the end you deserve a woman who is mature and honest.


----------



## poppoppop

My wife is in marketing. The OM is head of sales in his division. Yesterday, I cussed her out like a sailor. I found hotel reservations (which have since been cancelled) and ask if she was planning on seeing him during that trip. She bold faced lied to me and said no she intended on staying with her friend. I asked why she had hotel reservations and she claims she lied because she didn't want to hurt me anymore. Oh, what a saint! She then accused me of trying to trap her in lies. I told her of course I am...you're a liar. She said I was taking steps backwards and I said she is still hiding her tracks and that makes me think she's hiding other things. I yelled at her for the first time since we've been together. My therapist said I should stop focusing on her lies and just let it go for at least a week. He said I was too angry to make any clear choices so I'm gonna go with his advice and go silent for a week.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bryanp

Your therapist sounds like an idiot and an enabler.
1. get tested for STD's
2. See a lawyer

No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change. If you do not respect yourself then who will since she certainly does not.


----------



## bfree

poppoppop said:


> My wife is in marketing. The OM is head of sales in his division. Yesterday, I cussed her out like a sailor. I found hotel reservations (which have since been cancelled) and ask if she was planning on seeing him during that trip. She bold faced lied to me and said no she intended on staying with her friend. I asked why she had hotel reservations and she claims she lied because she didn't want to hurt me anymore. Oh, what a saint! She then accused me of trying to trap her in lies. I told her of course I am...you're a liar. She said I was taking steps backwards and I said she is still hiding her tracks and that makes me think she's hiding other things. I yelled at her for the first time since we've been together. My therapist said I should stop focusing on her lies and just let it go for at least a week. He said I was too angry to make any clear choices so I'm gonna go with his advice and go silent for a week.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm sorry to say this but it does sound like they've just taken this underground. I don't see anything left for you in this marriage.


----------



## vi_bride04

.......her lies are the cause of all of this. 

Your therapist is an idiot by suggesting you just rug sweep.


----------



## 3putt

vi_bride04 said:


> .......her lies are the cause of all of this.
> 
> Your therapist is an idiot by suggesting you just rug sweep.


There's no sense in even going to a therapist until the affair is over, and as long as they work together and have an excuse and the means to see one another it never will be.


----------



## the guy

Until your old lady can validate and you can confirm that NC has been established, then I suggest you distance your self a lot longer the a week.

Engaging her still shows you care, your indifference will show her that she will lose you for ever if she continues.

Until OM is completely out of the picture you can not work on this marriage, you can only work on your self....something you do have control over!!!!!!!

So go dark and stay dark until...again she can validate and you can comfirm NC.


----------



## happyman64

Actually the therapist is correct. If he is getting so upset and angry than he needs to stop communicating with her this entire week.

He should step back and watch her actions. And calm down.

He should also report her and the OM to HR. nail them and kill the affair.

And still he should 180 her until he can get to cool, calm and dispassionate towards her.

That is the key.

Yelling, screaming or giving himself a heart attack wil not help him. Nor will a restraining order from his wife.

And he is right. She is still lying and covering her tracks. That is why you go silent and attack the affair.

HM


----------



## 3putt

happyman64 said:


> Actually the therapist is correct. If he is getting so upset and angry than he needs to stop communicating with her this entire week.
> 
> He should step back and watch her actions. And calm down.
> 
> *He should also report her and the OM to HR. nail them and kill the affair.*
> 
> And still he should 180 her until he can get to cool, calm and dispassionate towards her.
> 
> That is the key.
> 
> Yelling, screaming or giving himself a heart attack wil not help him. Nor will a restraining order from his wife.
> 
> And he is right. She is still lying and covering her tracks. That is why you go silent and attack the affair.
> 
> HM


Period!


----------



## Will_Kane

poppoppop said:


> She cancelled the business trip today because she said she knew I would not trust her.


Is this the trip (from your original post) the hotel reservations were for? Did you know about the trip, but not about the hotel, until now?

Or is your most recent post about a more recent trip?


----------



## poppoppop

Will_Kane said:


> Is this the trip (from your original post) the hotel reservations were for? Did you know about the trip, but not about the hotel, until now?
> 
> Or is your most recent post about a more recent trip?


No...there were 3 trips planned over 6 weeks. The first one was supposed to be last week. It was cancelled. The next one is 4 weeks from now and the one I just discovered the hotel reservations. It was also cancelled. The 3rd is 5 weeks from now and she is definitely going to see him there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

poppoppop said:


> My wife is in marketing. The OM is head of sales in his division. Yesterday, I cussed her out like a sailor. I found hotel reservations (which have since been cancelled) and ask if she was planning on seeing him during that trip. She bold faced lied to me and said no she intended on staying with her friend. I asked why she had hotel reservations and she claims she lied because she didn't want to hurt me anymore. Oh, what a saint! She then accused me of trying to trap her in lies. I told her of course I am...you're a liar. She said I was taking steps backwards and I said she is still hiding her tracks and that makes me think she's hiding other things. I yelled at her for the first time since we've been together. My therapist said I should stop focusing on her lies and just let it go for at least a week. He said I was too angry to make any clear choices so I'm gonna go with his advice and go silent for a week.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



She would rather be his mistress ?


----------



## warlock07

So her shifting words make sense now. They got back in contact and the OM convinced her that he cannot be with her because of his kids and she "loves" him enough to continue this in secret until the kids move out. 

This is disgusting..Expose both of them at work.


----------



## warlock07

poppoppop said:


> No...there were 3 trips planned over 6 weeks. The first one was supposed to be last week. It was cancelled. The next one is 4 weeks from now and the one I just discovered the hotel reservations. It was also cancelled. The 3rd is 5 weeks from now and she is definitely going to see him there.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Does she know that you know about the 3rd one ?


----------



## poppoppop

warlock07 said:


> Does she know that you know about the 3rd one ?


Yes...she knows I know about that one. That one is in October in Phoenix. There is another one in January and again in March.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## poppoppop

warlock07 said:


> She would rather be his mistress ?


Sorry, my timeline is confusing. i had recently asked her about a trip that she had already cancelled but i had the hotel and flight confirmation. She told me those trips were not meant to be trips to see him...just business trips he wouldn't be at. However, i could see she had paid for hotel with her own money and airline tickets using mileage. Not company funds. So i knew she had lied about it. 

It's obvious she was way into him more than he was her. She makes about 1/2 as much as him, but was buying his plane tickets and hotel? I'm not sure why she continues to lie because the OM wife has indicated he is being transparent and not contacting her. It may have gone underground. Who knows? At this point, maybe it should be who cares?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattMatt

lordmayhem said:


> This is complete trickle truth. Notice it's HER version trying to minimize what she has done and spare your feelings. Affair sex by its very nature is hot and steamy because of the sneaking around. All that tension is what makes it so exciting. Anyway, her version makes no sense at all.
> 
> The real version is most likely what you see in the cheater forums where WW like to have sex with their BH after they have been with their OM.


You'd think that. But my experience told me that it was wrong and dirty. It turned out to be a real fog buster for me.

That was my experience, other people's experience might differ.


----------



## bandit.45

poppoppop said:


> Yes...she knows I know about that one. That one is in October in Phoenix. There is another one in January and again in March.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm here in Phoenix. I'll slueth for ya. Be happy to. PM me particulars if you want.


----------



## Will_Kane

poppoppop said:


> My wife is in marketing. The OM is head of sales in his division. Yesterday, I cussed her out like a sailor. I found hotel reservations (which have since been cancelled) and ask if she was planning on seeing him during that trip. She bold faced lied to me and said no she intended on staying with her friend. *I asked why she had hotel reservations and she claims she lied because she didn't want to hurt me anymore. Oh, what a saint! She then accused me of trying to trap her in lies. I told her of course I am...you're a liar. She said I was taking steps backwards *and I said she is still hiding her tracks and that makes me think she's hiding other things. I yelled at her for the first time since we've been together. My therapist said I should stop focusing on her lies and just let it go for at least a week. He said I was too angry to make any clear choices so I'm gonna go with his advice and go silent for a week.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So you found out she had paid for the hotel and the plane, for both her and the other man, out of her own money - NOT company money, NOT his money? His plane ticket and room, HER MONEY? Her reaction is NOT to apologize for lying to you, but to tell you that she was lying to help you?

She accused you of trying to catch her in lies - in reaction to you actually catching her in a lie - does it get any more messed up than that?

Then she tells you that YOU are taking steps backwards?

_Yes, why do you have to be so difficult? Why can't you just accept my lies? Why can't you just sweep this under the rug? All I want is for you to accept my lies and have full faith in me again as if this had never happened._

I'm sorry, she's still into the other man very deeply. I don't think that SHE thinks that he through her under the bus. She still is very hopeful. She may be in denial in thinking that he would choose his horrible wife over her. Or they actually may still be in contact, with him telling her, "just give me a little more time and soon we will be together."

When she is truly done with the other man, when she truly wants to give reconciliation a shot, she will apologize and take full responsibility for all of her lies and deception.


----------



## poppoppop

Will K: EXACTLY! She is trying to flip everything like it's my fault or that she is being deceptive for my sake. We had a huge blow out last weekend because of it. We agreed to just stay out of each others paths this week.

Well, two night ago, my son started school. That meant I had to drop off 2 kids at the same time. So I agreed to let her stay the night and drop one of them off. Lo and behold, around 11 at night, she goes into a room with nothing but her phone and I hear text message notifications going off. They had been going off all day as well. It is a very specific text message sound which she usually has designated for 1 of her girlfriends. That friend lives out of town and they sometimes go in stretches where they do not talk/text.

So yesterday, I called that friend and told her the situation and asked if she had been texting my wife the night before. She said no. So when my wife showed up after work, I asked her if she has been texting with that friend and she say no. *(EDIT: ACTUALLY MY WIFE SAID, YES, SHE HAD BEEN TEXTING WITH THAT FRIEND!)* I say, let me see your phone then. And she gets mad at me and says she's tired of being scrutinized and that if we are separated, I have no right to look at her phone. When I get up in anger, I see her quickly log on the phone and start clicking away. I'm guessing to delete something. She adamantly said she was not deleting anything and that she could show me the texts from that friend, but I felt like...there's no point if she already deleted them. 

I told her I'm done. I'm done protecting her. I'm done being in this marriage. I contacted those who are closest to her last night in an email explaining how she had an affair. I was planning on calling her HR department as well, but a friend of mine who is an attorney cautioned me that if they lose their jobs, there is the possibility of a lawsuit against me. So I have to be careful. I am going to talk to an attorney soon and if he gives me the green light, I'm going to be calling her HR to report that they've been going on these business trips under the guise of work, but they've just been so they can see each other. I'm also going to report that the OM, who is in sales and can expense business hotel stays, has been staying in hotels and expensing it because his wife has thrown him out of the house, not for any business reason.


----------



## poppoppop

Bandit45: Seriously? I might take you up on that.


----------



## BK23

I think your lawyer friend is wrong. Go ahead and inform HR.


----------



## 3putt

BK23 said:


> *I think your lawyer friend is wrong.* Go ahead and inform HR.


Very, VERY wrong. You'll never get sued for telling the truth.

I wouldn't lose a seconds sleep over that.


----------



## tom67

3putt said:


> Very, VERY wrong. You'll never get sued for telling the truth.
> 
> I wouldn't lose a seconds sleep over that.


You have proof correct? Inform hr and stick to the facts and tell them you are keeping your legal options open, you really don't have any but it will get them motivated.


----------



## tom67

Inform the omw one last time that you are divorcing because the affair is still going on and going underground and wish her the best of luck.


----------



## BK23

Another sad example of why you expose to everyone as soon as possible.


----------



## 3putt

Here's what you send and to whom you send it. From the MB board. You can modify to suit your situation with traveling and all.



> Workplace exposure letter - be sure and send to 3 key people and cc each on the letter. Good targets would be the Director of Human Resources, a key VP (or 2) and both affairee's supervisor. This can be sent via registered letter or even via email!
> 
> Developed by Brits Brat, board member and corporate attorney--
> 
> To Whom It May Concern:
> 
> This letter is to bring a matter to your attention that may be a violation of your Company's Code of Conduct and/or other policies, procedures and business ethics.
> 
> WS and WS are involved in an extramarital affair that is taking place, primarily, in the workplace. Aside from the potential sexual harassment claims this situation presents, it also involves the inappropriate use of company resources and assets. WS and WS are using company time and company resources to further their affair. If you check the call histories on their office and cell phones along with their workstation computers, you will find the two of them are spending an inordinate amount of what should be productive work time to further their sexual relationship.
> 
> If you have any questions, please call me at xxx-xxxx. Otherwise, I will anticipate a response from you once you have investigated these concerns and taken appropriate corrective action.
> 
> Regards,
> _________________________


----------



## poppoppop

Thanks 3PUTT! That works for me!

Well, I guess the letter doesn't say anything other than they used company resources (which I know they did) and that they spent a lot of their time doing that (which I also know they did) and should be very easy for the company to confirm. But I guess it leaves it up to the company to make that determination. 

I did include that my wife told me the OM has been staying in hotels and expensing it to the company because his wife has kicked him out. I also contacted his wife last night and told her about the rumors going on at work about the other women. (My wife might be AP #3 just at his work).


----------



## tom67

poppoppop said:


> Well, I guess the letter doesn't say anything other than they may have used company resources (which I know they did) and that they spent a lot of their time doing that (which I also know they did) and should be very easy for the company to confirm. But I guess it leaves it up to the company to make that determination.
> 
> I did include that the OM has been staying in hotels and expensing it to the company because his wife has kicked him out. I also contacted his wife last night and told her about the rumors going on at work about the other women. (My wife might be AP #3 just at his work).


Companies don't like this crap because it of not only using company funds and time, but fear other employees filing suits in regards to not being promoted and/or not getting a bonus because of them. Send the letter and don't tell her, then get ready for the show.


----------



## turnera

So you are definitely divorcing?


----------



## LongWalk

:lol:
That letter is great if you decide to go that route. There is always considerable discussion about the economic consequences of unemployment. Divorce + freshly unemployed ex spouse = alimony and a real fall in the standard of living for the children.

This is nothing to dismiss for the satisfaction of sticking it to them. If someone gets dismissed it should be the senior person, but who knows what HR will do. One can only speculate. Sometime HR rugs sweeps, sometimes they fire both or one. They may just issue a warning.

The most important thing now is to disengage emotionally and leave your wife to ponder the consequences of her behavior. Now is the time to stop expressing anger. Tell her that because you love her and want her to be happy you are prepared to let her go. If her happiness is with OM, so be it. You will not stand in the way.

At the same time you will not be the support system for the affair. Cut off all emotional support. Do engage in normal day to day conversation beyond what is necessary to take care of your children and household.

If she wants to save your marriage she has to start treating you with respect. She is probably proud, but you will know if she is being remorseful. Protecting you from knowledge about the affair is not good for your well being. Tell her lying about the affair is the worst thing she can do to you now.


----------



## BK23

If there's a senior person and a subordinate involved, they will never fire the subordinate because of potential liability.


----------



## LongWalk

BK23 said:


> If there's a senior person and a subordinate involved, they will never fire the subordinate because of potential liability.


In theory this correct. Bill Clinton wasn't fired. The aide left her position.


----------



## Dyokemm

Pop,

Great job at exposing this POS to his BW on the other affairs and that the one with your wife is continuing underground!

Your friend is wrong. 

There is absolutely no way you can be sued because they get fired for using company resources for their A.

Just include copies of the proof you have to the HR department.

The only legal claim this POS could make is you are lying and slandering him, but if you provide proof, his scummy a** will have nothing to stand on.

Bury this slimy piece of filth and your stupid WW along with him.


----------



## BK23

LongWalk said:


> In theory this correct. Bill Clinton wasn't fired. The aide left her position.


haha. Congress did try their damndest to fire him....


----------



## tom67

BK23 said:


> haha. Congress did try their damndest to fire him....


I ran out of cigars


----------



## TDSC60

As long as you tell the truth to HR you will not get sued. HR will investigate and any action taken will be a result of their internal investigation - not a result of anything you told them. They cannot sue you even if both are fired. But I am betting that the superior person who has been using company assets falsely recently will be the one who gets the axe.


----------



## hereinthemidwest

Revenge is sometimes best served in public!

My husband of 26 years has having affair. I posted a 4' x 4' sign on our home front railing saying. women in the white house across the street you can have my cheating husband. Hope you like being embarrassed. Then I filed for divorce. 

I wish you only the best. May you have some peace in your heart and heal now.


----------



## happyman64

PopPop

Be aggressive. No playing nice.

Expose, expose, expose.

Because until you kill the affair your wife will only be trying to save her own hide and his hide.

You will not even be in her mind until the Affair is either over or she leaves.

Keep moving forward.

HM


----------



## BK23

Divide and conquer. See how long the affair lasts once this guy's livelihood is threatened. He'll show his true colors the second sh!t hits the fan.


----------



## tom67

BK23 said:


> Divide and conquer. See how long the affair lasts once this guy's livelihood is threatened. He'll show his true colors the second sh!t hits the fan.


Can you say throw her under the bus.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BWBill

Perhaps I missed it elsewhere in your thread, but I know that some BS's have been reluctant to expose at work because their spouse would be eligible for support payments if they lost their jobs. 

Might she be able to collect alimony if you are the only employed spouse?


----------



## poppoppop

BWBill and Longwalk: Yes, I'm not sure about this one. It will definitely negatively impact the kids. It may open me up to paying alimony. 

tom67: He's already thrown my wife under the bus. 

UPDATE: I've contacted all of her close friends and let them know the truth about why we are separated. She has only told about half of them. I also contacted her family. I drafted the letter to HR and found all the appropriate contacts (head of her department, head of HR, who she reports directly to...I could not figure out who the OM reports to) and printed the letters. I wonder if I could just leave them out for her to find and not get her fired. 

I also copied the letter and sent it to the OM. A few days ago I found pictures of them on her computer and forwarded some to myself. At the bottom of the letter, I wrote: Attachments: Emails between the two parties, Photos of both parties in bed, Photos of the OM's naked torso. 

I wish I could see his stupid face when he reads it.


----------



## warlock07

Do you have access to her phone records?

Edit: Wow...you found pictures of both of them in bed ? Probably all the evidence you will need.


----------



## Jasel

poppoppop said:


> BWBill and Longwalk: Yes, I'm not sure about this one. It will definitely negatively impact the kids. It may open me up to paying alimony.
> 
> tom67: He's already thrown my wife under the bus.
> 
> UPDATE: I've contacted all of her close friends and let them know the truth about why we are separated. She has only told about half of them. I also contacted her family. I drafted the letter to HR and found all the appropriate contacts (head of her department, head of HR, who she reports directly to...I could not figure out who the OM reports to) and printed the letters. I wonder if I could just leave them out for her to find and not get her fired.
> 
> I also copied the letter and sent it to the OM. A few days ago I found pictures of them on her computer and forwarded some to myself. At the bottom of the letter, I wrote: Attachments: Emails between the two parties, Photos of both parties in bed, Photos of the OM's naked torso.
> 
> I wish I could see his stupid face when he reads it.


----------



## tom67

poppoppop said:


> BWBill and Longwalk: Yes, I'm not sure about this one. It will definitely negatively impact the kids. It may open me up to paying alimony.
> 
> tom67: He's already thrown my wife under the bus.
> 
> UPDATE: I've contacted all of her close friends and let them know the truth about why we are separated. She has only told about half of them. I also contacted her family. I drafted the letter to HR and found all the appropriate contacts (head of her department, head of HR, who she reports directly to...I could not figure out who the OM reports to) and printed the letters. I wonder if I could just leave them out for her to find and not get her fired.
> 
> I also copied the letter and sent it to the OM. A few days ago I found pictures of them on her computer and forwarded some to myself. At the bottom of the letter, I wrote: Attachments: Emails between the two parties, Photos of both parties in bed, Photos of the OM's naked torso.
> 
> I wish I could see his stupid face when he reads it.


It's your call talk to a local atty first consult is usually free then make an informed decision. Good on the exposure so far.


----------



## tom67

Take up Bandit's offer on the extra set of eyes down in az.


----------



## BK23

While you're at it, don't forget to post his name and story on cheaterville. The topless pic will be perfect for that....


----------



## tom67

BK23 said:


> While you're at it, don't forget to post his name and story on cheaterville. The topless pic will be perfect for that....


And send it to hr:rofl::rofl:


----------



## OnTheRocks

I love all the armchair lawyers in here saying you won't get sued. They are all wrong. You can file a civil suit against anyone for anything. It is fundamental to the way the US legal system works. That doesn't mean it will go anywhere, but merely responding to a frivolous case can still be a major hassle and expense. 

Are you in an alimony State? Her being terminated could greatly affect your post-divorce lifestyle. 

Tread carefully here, and only follow the advice of your lawyer. 

Great job on everything so far.


----------



## BK23

OnTheRocks said:


> I love all the armchair lawyers in here saying you won't get sued. They are all wrong. You can file a civil suit against anyone for anything. It is fundamental to the way the US legal system works. That doesn't mean it will go anywhere, but merely responding to a frivolous case can still be a major hassle and expense.
> 
> Are you in an alimony State? Her being terminated could greatly affect your post-divorce lifestyle.
> 
> Tread carefully here, and only follow the advice of your lawyer.
> 
> Great job on everything so far.


I am an actual lawyer in addition to an armchair lawyer, but I agree with you to an extent. He really doesn't have to worry about civil liability stemming from disclosure to HR, but he should talk to a family law attorney about possible ramifications insofar as alimony. 

Yes, anyone can file for anything, but it would be a couple hours work to get this thing tossed at the preliminary stages.


----------



## 3putt

poppoppop said:


> BWBill and Longwalk: Yes, I'm not sure about this one. It will definitely negatively impact the kids. It may open me up to paying alimony.
> 
> tom67: He's already thrown my wife under the bus.
> 
> UPDATE: I've contacted all of her close friends and let them know the truth about why we are separated. She has only told about half of them. I also contacted her family. I drafted the letter to HR and found all the appropriate contacts (head of her department, head of HR, who she reports directly to...I could not figure out who the OM reports to) and printed the letters. I wonder if I could just leave them out for her to find and not get her fired.
> 
> I also copied the letter and sent it to the OM. A few days ago I found pictures of them on her computer and forwarded some to myself. At the bottom of the letter, I wrote: Attachments: Emails between the two parties, Photos of both parties in bed, Photos of the OM's naked torso.
> 
> I wish I could see his stupid face when he reads it.


Did you notify 2 VPs as well? Those 2 are key as some of the others could engage in a massive rug sweep, especially since your WW reports to the HR head. The HR head may already be in the know about what's going on, and is actually covering for your wife. It's imperative you send that info to 2 VPs to ensure accountability amongst the others.

No shortcuts, bro. Balls to the wall.


----------



## tom67

3putt said:


> Did you notify 2 VPs as well? Those 2 are key as some of the others could engage in a massive rug sweep, especially since your WW reports to the HR head. The HR head may already be in the know about what's going on, and is actually covering for your wife. It's imperative you send that info to 2 VPs to ensure accountability amongst the others.
> 
> No shortcuts, bro. Balls to the wall.


They may find more and turn over that whole dept.


----------



## 3putt

tom67 said:


> They may find more and turn over that whole dept.


That's just it. During this kind of campaign you never know what will turn up and you never know just who and where your allies are. 

But you do soon enough!


----------



## tom67

He should be on the phone today setting up multiple consultations with the best lawyers in his area so his w can't.


----------



## 3putt

tom67 said:


> He should be on the phone today setting up multiple consultations with the best lawyers in his area so his w can't.


And also separating finances. She's already proven she is willing to spend their money to support her adultery.


----------



## tom67

Poppop get the facts asap. Give the lawyer all the monetary figures and what would happen should she get fired(may happen anyway without your help) and go from there. How many years married matters in most states.


----------



## Refuse to be played

Jasel said:


>


Do what must be done Lord Poppoppop. Do not hesitate. Show no mercy.


----------



## bandit.45

tom67 said:


> Take up Bandit's offer on the extra set of eyes down in az.


I have my fedora and long overcoat ready. 

Except I would be the only guy in Phoenix wearing an overcoat and fedora. I guess flip flops, cargo shorts and tank top will suffice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JCD

Okay...time for a bit of perspective here.

First off, I'm a 'usual suspect', which means that I was a wayward who went into an emotional affair. This means that I 'always make excuses for cheaters, being one myself' if you are one of the hardliners here, OR, I am a guy who understands what your wife is going through and can maybe shed some light on things that seem inexplicable to you.

So...she goes and has a kid with you. A wonderful delightful bonding moment...but now, her husband won't touch her, refuses to have sex with her, because she's a huge fat hormone drenched cow. Even a couple years afterward, he still turns away with disgust from her attentions, even after she works hard to lose that baby weight.

This same man also told her that the financial future of the entire family now rests firmly on her shoulders. Get out there honey and bring back the bacon...while I play video games with the kids at home...

No...this isn't all you were. These are the kinds of images she is filling in her head with based on current culture...just like men think being a housewife is sitting watching soap operas as they scarf bon bons. It's cultural bias and shorthand.

And I understand you had long intense conversations with the wife about all this. BUT...doubts and resentments linger. 

"What did you do today honey?" 

"Oh...I spent 8 hours being screamed at by four different bosses because my marketing idea was 4% points below the anticipated rate of return for the anticipated ad results. How about you?" 

"Jimmy and I pasted macaroni on a piece of paper. It's on the fridge."

Yeah...

Luckily, she has the bond of sex to...strengthen...um...oh.

These are things that needed addressing a long time ago. Now, none of this 'excuses' infidelity. But I liken infidelity to the common cold: You can't get a cold from being wet and cold. BUT...being wet and cold weakens your immune system so when that virus comes around, it's far easier to succumb. 

She was up to her thighs in a 40 degree swamp. She had a responsibility to walk out of the swamp. You had a responsibility to drain the swamp too. It didn't happen.

Now...being emotionally engaged like this is an addiction. When I dumped my EA, there were days where I was pining to do ANYTHING to get back in touch with her. It was like I chopped an important part of my anatomy off and I wanted it back! I had to make a conscious choice to NOT go there...and I needed to make it every day. And I have. Close to two years now, and believe me, it is harder than it looks!

So...you are correct that the wife has, at best, diffident feelings about you. She thinks of you like a roommate or brother because she isn't having sex with you. Own this! She might have put a knife deep into your back, but you didn't exactly leave her unmarked before this.

Now...you are in a cleft stick. Frankly, R was possible. Not assured, but possible. It still is. But your circumstances regarding work make it VERY DIFFICULT...because she works *and she can't quit!*

People are going on about how she loves her job more than she loves you. Huh...REALLY? How about...she doesn't want her kids, her husband or herself to starve? Oh...we can't think THAT way, because that would mean she is behaving in a rational and excusable way.

She also gets validation from work. She does a good job, she gets praised. How much validation does she get at home? She certainly feels unworthy in the bedroom. 

I love my job too, and if asked to quit, it would be a rough choice if the family told me to quit. Of course, I'm a man and that's much more accepted.

You said she tried to put the marriage back on track. You didn't even notice. How is she supposed to feel about that?

So...she keeps running to the piece of crap that DOES make her feel good about herself. It's just like any other addiction. He is her bottle of white, bottle of red: certainly not good for her, but it's what little comfort she has during well...Hell. Trust me that she feels pretty damned bad about this whole thing too. You at least are the victim. She gets to be the bad guy.

She needs to go NC with the man. She needs to know where she is in the relationship. Go or don't go. Dragging this out is not helping either one of you.

I think you are being a bit hasty. Don't conflict with her. If you are raging and angry, don't talk to her. 

She's wrong. Okay? SHE'S WRONG! She can fall back in love with you, and not as a plan B, but you two need to start communicating and fixing MAJOR PROBLEMS in your relationship.

So if you are divorcing because there is no hope, that is wrong. There is. But only if she ponies up. That means no more texting to that POS or any other way.

Frankly, she needs to self confess her issue to her supervisor so she is released from being sent on trips with the POS.

Now, the ticket thing...I am not sure I understand that. Is she doing it for work? Is she sending the ticket to him? Is she being reimbursed for her expenses? Is it work related? Is it not? I don't understand the entire thing.

If it's as described, it IS egregious. That gives me a great deal of concern.

It is your decision to make. I hope I've brought a little light to the thing farther than her just as a natural cheater. She sounds conflicted and confused. Of course she is. She loves two people. One doesn't want her sexually and the other is a lying married serial cheater. Quite the choice she has...


----------



## tom67

JCD said:


> Okay...time for a bit of perspective here.
> 
> First off, I'm a 'usual suspect', which means that I was a wayward who went into an emotional affair. This means that I 'always make excuses for cheaters, being one myself' if you are one of the hardliners here, OR, I am a guy who understands what your wife is going through and can maybe shed some light on things that seem inexplicable to you.
> 
> So...she goes and has a kid with you. A wonderful delightful bonding moment...but now, her husband won't touch her, refuses to have sex with her, because she's a huge fat hormone drenched cow. Even a couple years afterward, he still turns away with disgust from her attentions, even after she works hard to lose that baby weight.
> 
> This same man also told her that the financial future of the entire family now rests firmly on her shoulders. Get out there honey and bring back the bacon...while I play video games with the kids at home...
> 
> No...this isn't all you were. These are the kinds of images she is filling in her head with based on current culture...just like men think being a housewife is sitting watching soap operas as they scarf bon bons. It's cultural bias and shorthand.
> 
> And I understand you had long intense conversations with the wife about all this. BUT...doubts and resentments linger.
> 
> "What did you do today honey?"
> 
> "Oh...I spent 8 hours being screamed at by four different bosses because my marketing idea was 4% points below the anticipated rate of return for the anticipated ad results. How about you?"
> 
> "Jimmy and I pasted macaroni on a piece of paper. It's on the fridge."
> 
> Yeah...
> 
> Luckily, she has the bond of sex to...strengthen...um...oh.
> 
> These are things that needed addressing a long time ago. Now, none of this 'excuses' infidelity. But I liken infidelity to the common cold: You can't get a cold from being wet and cold. BUT...being wet and cold weakens your immune system so when that virus comes around, it's far easier to succumb.
> 
> She was up to her thighs in a 40 degree swamp. She had a responsibility to walk out of the swamp. You had a responsibility to drain the swamp too. It didn't happen.
> 
> Now...being emotionally engaged like this is an addiction. When I dumped my EA, there were days where I was pining to do ANYTHING to get back in touch with her. It was like I chopped an important part of my anatomy off and I wanted it back! I had to make a conscious choice to NOT go there...and I needed to make it every day. And I have. Close to two years now, and believe me, it is harder than it looks!
> 
> So...you are correct that the wife has, at best, diffident feelings about you. She thinks of you like a roommate or brother because she isn't having sex with you. Own this! She might have put a knife deep into your back, but you didn't exactly leave her unmarked before this.
> 
> Now...you are in a cleft stick. Frankly, R was possible. Not assured, but possible. It still is. But your circumstances regarding work make it VERY DIFFICULT...because she works *and she can't quit!*
> 
> People are going on about how she loves her job more than she loves you. Huh...REALLY? How about...she doesn't want her kids, her husband or herself to starve? Oh...we can't think THAT way, because that would mean she is behaving in a rational and excusable way.
> 
> She also gets validation from work. She does a good job, she gets praised. How much validation does she get at home? She certainly feels unworthy in the bedroom.
> 
> I love my job too, and if asked to quit, it would be a rough choice if the family told me to quit. Of course, I'm a man and that's much more accepted.
> 
> You said she tried to put the marriage back on track. You didn't even notice. How is she supposed to feel about that?
> 
> So...she keeps running to the piece of crap that DOES make her feel good about herself. It's just like any other addiction. He is her bottle of white, bottle of red: certainly not good for her, but it's what little comfort she has during well...Hell. Trust me that she feels pretty damned bad about this whole thing too. You at least are the victim. She gets to be the bad guy.
> 
> She needs to go NC with the man. She needs to know where she is in the relationship. Go or don't go. Dragging this out is not helping either one of you.
> 
> I think you are being a bit hasty. Don't conflict with her. If you are raging and angry, don't talk to her.
> 
> She's wrong. Okay? SHE'S WRONG! She can fall back in love with you, and not as a plan B, but you two need to start communicating and fixing MAJOR PROBLEMS in your relationship.
> 
> So if you are divorcing because there is no hope, that is wrong. There is. But only if she ponies up. That means no more texting to that POS or any other way.
> 
> Frankly, she needs to self confess her issue to her supervisor so she is released from being the POS.
> 
> Now, the ticket thing...I am not sure I understand that. Is she doing it for work? Is she sending the ticket to him? Is she being reimbursed for her expenses? Is it work related? Is it not?
> 
> If it's as described, it IS egregious. That gives me a great deal of concern.
> 
> It is your decision to make. I hope I've brought a little light to the thing farther than her just as a natural cheater. She sounds conflicted and confused. Of course she is. She loves two people. One doesn't want her sexually and the other is a lying married serial cheater. Quite the choice she has...


This sums it up pop


----------



## JCD

Okay...why did I tear into you? Actually, I didn't. What I did was put HER view of the marriage in perspective.

Despite what is sometimes sold here, people don't cheat in good marriages. There is something not good in the marriage. Sometimes the WS has tried to make things better (cough)...and sometimes they don't. That goes down to character.

But the marriage didn't change, whether they made efforts or not.

As you very well know, R is a HUGE effort. But it isn't just you doing the heavy lifting. SHE needs to make her own share of the sweat and pain.

One reason I think that many R's fail or never get off the ground is that the WS sees absolutely no return on investment. She isn't given any hope to be more than the bad guy forever.

What needs to happen is the offer that the marriage will be MUCH BETTER at the end of all this. Because as you admitted yourself, there were some problems. My wife, angel that she is, gave me hope that we would get to a BETTER place than we were (I sort of insisted too)

If you two don't get to a better place, where is the incentive for either of you to actually try?


----------



## JCD

JustPuzzled said:


> Huh?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know. Why should a WS have needs or feelings or expectations? They should instead be happy to crawl and lick you feet if they cheat.

Don't worry...the cognitive dissonance passes.


----------



## LongWalk

Good discussion


----------



## poppoppop

JCD: I agree things were messed up before. I get that. I know she has to want to return to a better place. But there is no excuse for cheating. I totally understand my part in this, but the affair is inexcusable. That being said, I really do appreciate that perspective. The problem so far though has been that she hasn't really wanted to try for an R. Until now....

Well, I went ahead and started the process. I gave her the divorce papers and my demands and started contacting her friends to let them know what is going on. I printed the letters to send to HR at her work. I had to run out tonight to take care of a few things. During that time, I sent a text to the OM saying that we are getting divorced. He responded by saying he was working on his family and not to contact him again. I sent him a copy of the letter and he freaked out. His wife started contacting me begging not to send the letter. He ignored me, but all of a sudden, he started asking what I wanted. I told him to think something up. He was calm at first but I could tell he was getting nervous. 

Later I actually called him. He didn't pick up, but all of a sudden, he picked up and I spoke to him. He was mad I called but it soon went from angry to terrified. His wife was in the background asking what I wanted. After a long silence by me, he finally started begging and pleading with me. Then he got very defensive and said he was blocking my number and calling an attorney. 

I walked back in the house after talking to him outside and my wife was standing there with tears. I knew she hadn't talked to him because he had just hung up on me, but it ends up she was in tears because she saw the divorce forms. Also, one of her friends contacted her. So she knew I was contacting people today. She apologized profusely and said she knew what a mistake this was and not to divorce and to let us have a chance. She said she hated seeing me so angry and hurt and just wants to try to reconcile. I asked her what brought it on and she said it was the divorce papers. I asked if she saw anything else or heard anything else. She said no. I asked her if she would be willing to give up her job because of this. She said that if it would give us a chance then she would. 

I showed her the letters to HR and told her about contacting the OM. She did not get mad about it, but said she would like to stop contact with him and asked that she have a chance to find another job instead of being fired. After talking to the OM and his wife, I believe they have not been in contact. My wife cried the whole night and it's been about 5 hours since we started talking. She finally seemed remorseful and genuine. She asked me please for another chance. She said she would be completely transparent from now on. I told her we still need time apart. She asked if I would be willing to go to couples counseling (if you've been following along, she initially said no when I brought it up.) I agreed but said we should still spend time apart to see if I can ever get over this.


----------



## Dyokemm

Ahhh....the power of exposure at work.

Now if every BS on these boards could only be directed here when they start to argue about how it will push their WS away, or they want to take the high road morally , or...blah, blah, blah.

It isn't perfect, but its still the absolute best action to take against the slimy AP's (both of them).

Pop,

I know it had to feel good for you to have this POS begging and squirming as he realized he had f***ed with the wrong man.

I'll bet his deluded, scummy a** sat there during the A thinking he was such a hardcore alpha male and you were some loser who was so pathetic he couldn't keep his own W out of POS's bed.

My how the tables have turned. 

This POS so deserves to be annihilated for f'ing with your and your child's life, with the help and support of your foolish WW of course.

If you show any mercy, it should only be for his poor BW. 

But definitely make it known load and clear that if you even catch a hint of him disrespecting your family again, it will be the end of his life as he knows it.


----------



## LongWalk

Good. Now. Consider not moving out if you can restore your sex life. Start working on yourself. But keep it all action and no talk.

The fact that she is willing to quit her job is big.

Let her keep it for the time being but get her to NC with OMW copied so that she is clear about the end of all contact.


----------



## azteca1986

poppoppop said:


> *I sent him a copy of the letter and he freaked out. * His wife started contacting me begging not to send the letter. He ignored me, but all of a sudden, he started asking what I wanted. I told him to think something up. He was calm at first but I could tell he was getting nervous.
> 
> Later I actually called him. He didn't pick up, but all of a sudden, he picked up and I spoke to him. He was mad I called but *it soon went from angry to terrified. * His wife was in the background asking what I wanted. After a long silence by me, he finally started begging and pleading with me.


*Snigger*

Good job pop.


----------



## amberjill

Good sex will give 100% confident about your wife. Sex is one of the most essential parts in our life. So good sex will make sense and keep things in perspective.


----------



## rrrbbbttt

If you think it is over you are fooling yourself. Wife and OM are circling the wagons to protect their jobs.

She was texting him a few days ago and now since you have taken the offense her and him do not know what to do and they are stalling you for a strategy to keep you from notifying the company.

The main objective for both of them now is to save their jobs.


----------



## JCD

rrrbbbttt said:


> If you think it is over you are fooling yourself. Wife and OM are circling the wagons to protect their jobs.
> 
> She was texting him a few days ago and now since you have taken the offense her and him do not know what to do and they are stalling you for a strategy to keep you from notifying the company.
> 
> The main objective for both of them now is to save their jobs.


That is certainly ONE interpretation. Problem is, the actions in your scenario and the actions of a remorseful person are both indistinguishable.


----------



## JCD

LongWalk said:


> Good. Now. Consider not moving out if you can restore your sex life. Start working on yourself. But keep it all action and no talk.
> 
> The fact that she is willing to quit her job is big.
> 
> Let her keep it for the time being but get her to NC with OMW copied so that she is clear about the end of all contact.


Quitting the job is a nice sentiment.

Who is going to pay the bills?


----------



## LongWalk

This true. Remorse over betrayal of spouse or merely fear over of job loss, both could prevoke a strong emotional reaction. A career oriented person might be more worried about the job than anything else. But she did say she wanted time to search for new one.

It is possible that over time what began as panic will become genuine remorse. Difficult to call. OP knows his wife, or thought he did. Here is a challenge. Can he be the person steer the relationship now? Does he want to?

By being assertive in fighting the affair he has built up his sex ranking. Now comes a tricky transition. Can he get love and affection from her? Can he fulfill needs that he wasn't before by changing himself?


----------



## tom67

LongWalk said:


> This true. Remorse over betrayal of spouse or merely fear over of job loss, both could prevoke a strong emotional reaction. A career oriented person might be more worried about the job than anything else. But she did say she wanted time to search for new one.
> 
> It is possible that over time what began as panic will become genuine remorse. Difficult to call. OP knows his wife, or thought he did. Here is a challenge. Can he be the person steer the relationship now? Does he want to?
> 
> By being assertive in fighting the affair he has built up his sex ranking. Now comes a tricky transition. Can he get love and affection from her? Can he fulfill needs that he wasn't before by changing himself?


Good question time and actions will tell.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JCD

LongWalk said:


> This true. Remorse over betrayal of spouse or merely fear over of job loss, both could prevoke a strong emotional reaction. A career oriented person might be more worried about the job than anything else. But she did say she wanted time to search for new one.
> 
> It is possible that over time what began as panic will become genuine remorse. Difficult to call. OP knows his wife, or thought he did. Here is a challenge. Can he be the person steer the relationship now? Does he want to?
> 
> By being assertive in fighting the affair he has built up his sex ranking. Now comes a tricky transition. Can he get love and affection from her? Can he fulfill needs that he wasn't before by changing himself?



Let me fill you in as a wayward: right now, their sex life is broken...and I mean more than they had before.

If what they are going through is anything like my personal experiences or those of others mentioned here, it will take months to fix things...but they do get better. And the question goes both ways. Can HE give HER the love and affection that she's been denied? Neither one are probably feeling that affectionate right now.

IF he wants to make the effort. He's already given her papers.

Poppop: if you are set on divorce, stop with the getting them fired nonsense. Walk away with your head held high and an alimony and child support settlement in your pocket. You have already screwed up the life of the OM (as much as you are legally or morally able to get)

If you are divorcing her, you don't get a say in where she works or who she sees.

Now, if you want to lose the moral high ground, you can destroy the other aspects of her life (i.e. career) leaving the mother of your children destitute and desperately looking for a job...and she will transfer some of that bitterness to the kids.

R and make her change jobs (if she can...be rational) or D and let her live her life.

That's how I'd call it.


----------



## warlock07

You make it sound like there are only two options... Your post sounds like an ultimatum


----------



## JCD

warlock07 said:


> You make it sound like there are only two options... Your post sounds like an ultimatum


Whose post?


----------



## bfree

As far as changing jobs...I thought they could only see each other during business trips? Am I mistaken? If that is the case can she eliminate those trips entirely, at least until she finds other employment? This is of course if Pop wants to try to R this marriage.


----------



## Wazza

OP, I reconciled with my wife after her affair and we are happy. (So you know my background, not advising either divorce or reconciliation).

A couple of suggestions,

First, get your facts organised. If you do end up reconciling, it is hard work to rebuild trust. Having objective truth you can measure against helps.

Second, protect yourself. You need to decide what marriage means to you, and for me it cannot ever mean absolute trust or absolute dependence, because people are fallible. It is not as simple as finding someone who won't cheat, the best you can do is find someone less likely to. So you need to protect yourself emotionally and financially, whatever you do.

Third, you are doing great. Keep being this considered in your responses.

Good luck sir.


----------



## bfree

Pops,

I recently re read a WS's thread from back in 2012. At the time she posted she was really in the fog. She had no feelings for her husband and was coming off a fairly long affair. Their sex life was pretty much non existent and although they both cared for each other they both agreed there was no love. But now they are not only reconciled but are doing extremely well. Their sex life is fantastic and their marriage is the best it has ever been. They are truly a testiment to what can be accomplished with hard work and caring. They rebuilt their marriage, their family, their lives and their love.

If you'd like my opinion I would say that her recent breakdown at least would imply that she is finally realizing how badly she screwed up. Another positive I see is that she was willing to try to R before she found out that you were thinking of going to HR. So I believe that her reaction was truly because she didn't want to lose YOU. I also think that its a real positive that she is not clinging to resentment over the disconnect she undoubtedly felt after the birth of the child and the lack of sex. It tells me that she feels there is still something there beyond her job and her comfortable home life. Read JCD's post again because I think he nailed it from her perspective. I also think your decisive actions and no nonsense attitude has prevented you from being considered plan B. You have taken control. There is no way she could see you as a backup now.

I think you should seriously consider trying to R if you have any desire. Now that she is coming out of her fog maybe the time is right to start addressing not only the affair but all the issues leading up to it. Its not going to be easy but it can be done and you can come out of this better than ever.

Its your choice. You are in the driver's seat.


----------



## turnera

What's a cleft stick?


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

poppoppop said:


> JCD: I agree things were messed up before. I get that. I know she has to want to return to a better place. But there is no excuse for cheating. I totally understand my part in this, but the affair is inexcusable. That being said, I really do appreciate that perspective. The problem so far though has been that she hasn't really wanted to try for an R. Until now....
> 
> Well, I went ahead and started the process. I gave her the divorce papers and my demands and started contacting her friends to let them know what is going on. I printed the letters to send to HR at her work. I had to run out tonight to take care of a few things. During that time, I sent a text to the OM saying that we are getting divorced. He responded by saying he was working on his family and not to contact him again. I sent him a copy of the letter and he freaked out. His wife started contacting me begging not to send the letter. He ignored me, but all of a sudden, he started asking what I wanted. I told him to think something up. He was calm at first but I could tell he was getting nervous.
> 
> Later I actually called him. He didn't pick up, but all of a sudden, he picked up and I spoke to him. He was mad I called but it soon went from angry to terrified. His wife was in the background asking what I wanted. After a long silence by me, he finally started begging and pleading with me. Then he got very defensive and said he was blocking my number and calling an attorney.
> 
> I walked back in the house after talking to him outside and my wife was standing there with tears. I knew she hadn't talked to him because he had just hung up on me, but it ends up she was in tears because she saw the divorce forms. Also, one of her friends contacted her. So she knew I was contacting people today. She apologized profusely and said she knew what a mistake this was and not to divorce and to let us have a chance. She said she hated seeing me so angry and hurt and just wants to try to reconcile. I asked her what brought it on and she said it was the divorce papers. I asked if she saw anything else or heard anything else. She said no. I asked her if she would be willing to give up her job because of this. She said that if it would give us a chance then she would.
> 
> I showed her the letters to HR and told her about contacting the OM. She did not get mad about it, but said she would like to stop contact with him and asked that she have a chance to find another job instead of being fired. After talking to the OM and his wife, I believe they have not been in contact. My wife cried the whole night and it's been about 5 hours since we started talking. She finally seemed remorseful and genuine. She asked me please for another chance. She said she would be completely transparent from now on. I told her we still need time apart. She asked if I would be willing to go to couples counseling (if you've been following along, she initially said no when I brought it up.) I agreed but said we should still spend time apart to see if I can ever get over this.


I would keep a VAR(s) in the house to verify that all of this sudden remorse is actually for you. She may just be sorry because she sees her world about to come crashing down around her.

See what she's like in a couple of weeks.

Great job on the exposure! To read about it was very relieving for me, like I now know that whether it's R, or D, you are going to be all right.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

JustPuzzled said:


> Eh?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's irony, leave it alone.


----------



## bandit.45

Sit down with her and write out a list of YOUR demands and expectations. Here are some I would list:

You get all passwords and codes to her emails and accounts. All of them, even her work accounts. 

She writes a letter to the OM telling him the affair is dead and she will not be communicating with him. 

She writes a letter to the OMW apologizing to her, as complete an apology as she can muster. 

Your wife sits down with both sets of in-laws and comes clean about what she did. 

The two of you attend both IC and MC . This is non-negotiable. 

From this day forward she is a nun. Outside of her daily work or business calls, she has NO, NONE, NADA contact with any male who is not a sibling, parent or in-law....NONE. She announces to any male friends she has that she can no longer associate. 

She gets a full work up for STDs. 

She calls you and tells your where she is at at all times. She installs a GPS on her phone and car so you can verify her whereabouts. 

No more secrets between the two of you, NONE. 

She burns all clothing, lingerie and momentos associated with the affair with you present. 

No more financial infidelity. All her credit and debit accounts will be reviewed by you whenever you want. 

She sleeps in a separate bedroom if you want her to. No sex until YOU are ready, but when you are she will have sex with you. No withholding sex from each other. 

Tell her you will let the D go on, and when you are certain she is sincere, you will call it off.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> Sit down with her and write out a list of YOUR demands and expectations. Here are some I would list:
> 
> You get all passwords and codes to her emails and accounts. All of them, even her work accounts.
> 
> She writes a letter to the OM telling him the affair is dead and she will not be communicating with him.
> 
> She writes a letter to the OMW apologizing to her, as complete an apology as she can muster.
> 
> Your wife sits down with both sets of in-laws and comes clean about what she did.
> 
> The two of you attend both IC and MC . This is non-negotiable.
> 
> From this day forward she is a nun. Outside of her daily work or business calls, she has NO, NONE, NADA contact with any male who is not a sibling, parent or in-law....NONE. She announces to any male friends she has that she can no longer associate.
> 
> She gets a full work up for STDs.
> 
> She calls you and tells your where she is at at all times. She installs a GPS on her phone and car so you can verify her whereabouts.
> 
> No more secrets between the two of you, NONE.
> 
> She burns all clothing, lingerie and momentous associated with the affair with you present.
> 
> No more financial infidelity. All her credit and debit accounts will be reviewed by you whenever you want.
> 
> She sleeps in a separate bedroom if you want her to. No sex until YOU are ready, but when you are she will have sex with you. No withholding sex from each other.
> 
> Tell her you will let the D go on, and when you are certain she is sincere, you will call it off.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes:iagree::iagree:


----------



## 3putt

bandit.45 said:


> Sit down with her and write out a list of YOUR demands and expectations. Here are some I would list:
> 
> You get all passwords and codes to her emails and accounts. All of them, even her work accounts.
> 
> She writes a letter to the OM telling him the affair is dead and she will not be communicating with him.
> 
> She writes a letter to the OMW apologizing to her, as complete an apology as she can muster.
> 
> Your wife sits down with both sets of in-laws and comes clean about what she did.
> 
> The two of you attend both IC and MC . This is non-negotiable.
> 
> From this day forward she is a nun. Outside of her daily work or business calls, she has NO, NONE, NADA contact with any male who is not a sibling, parent or in-law....NONE. She announces to any male friends she has that she can no longer associate.
> 
> She gets a full work up for STDs.
> 
> She calls you and tells your where she is at at all times. She installs a GPS on her phone and car so you can verify her whereabouts.
> 
> No more secrets between the two of you, NONE.
> 
> She burns all clothing, lingerie and momentous associated with the affair with you present.
> 
> No more financial infidelity. All her credit and debit accounts will be reviewed by you whenever you want.
> 
> She sleeps in a separate bedroom if you want her to. No sex until YOU are ready, but when you are she will have sex with you. No withholding sex from each other.
> 
> Tell her you will let the D go on, and when you are certain she is sincere, you will call it off.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would also add that she outs herself to her supervisor, and anyone else, that can ensure she doesn't go on anymore trips where she can meet up with POSOM. Of course, this is just until she finds another job. I would also insist on going with her to talk to her boss.


----------



## bfree

bandit.45 said:


> Sit down with her and write out a list of YOUR demands and expectations. Here are some I would list:
> 
> You get all passwords and codes to her emails and accounts. All of them, even her work accounts.
> 
> She writes a letter to the OM telling him the affair is dead and she will not be communicating with him.
> 
> She writes a letter to the OMW apologizing to her, as complete an apology as she can muster.
> 
> Your wife sits down with both sets of in-laws and comes clean about what she did.
> 
> The two of you attend both IC and MC . This is non-negotiable.
> 
> From this day forward she is a nun. Outside of her daily work or business calls, she has NO, NONE, NADA contact with any male who is not a sibling, parent or in-law....NONE. She announces to any male friends she has that she can no longer associate.
> 
> She gets a full work up for STDs.
> 
> She calls you and tells your where she is at at all times. She installs a GPS on her phone and car so you can verify her whereabouts.
> 
> No more secrets between the two of you, NONE.
> 
> She burns all clothing, lingerie and momentous associated with the affair with you present.
> 
> No more financial infidelity. All her credit and debit accounts will be reviewed by you whenever you want.
> 
> She sleeps in a separate bedroom if you want her to. No sex until YOU are ready, but when you are she will have sex with you. No withholding sex from each other.
> 
> Tell her you will let the D go on, and when you are certain she is sincere, you will call it off.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wow! Nicely covers it.


----------



## Wazza

bandit.45 said:


> Sit down with her and write out a list of YOUR demands and expectations. Here are some I would list:
> 
> You get all passwords and codes to her emails and accounts. All of them, even her work accounts.
> 
> She writes a letter to the OM telling him the affair is dead and she will not be communicating with him.
> 
> She writes a letter to the OMW apologizing to her, as complete an apology as she can muster.
> 
> Your wife sits down with both sets of in-laws and comes clean about what she did.
> 
> The two of you attend both IC and MC . This is non-negotiable.
> 
> From this day forward she is a nun. Outside of her daily work or business calls, she has NO, NONE, NADA contact with any male who is not a sibling, parent or in-law....NONE. She announces to any male friends she has that she can no longer associate.
> 
> She gets a full work up for STDs.
> 
> She calls you and tells your where she is at at all times. She installs a GPS on her phone and car so you can verify her whereabouts.
> 
> No more secrets between the two of you, NONE.
> 
> She burns all clothing, lingerie and momentous associated with the affair with you present.
> 
> No more financial infidelity. All her credit and debit accounts will be reviewed by you whenever you want.
> 
> She sleeps in a separate bedroom if you want her to. No sex until YOU are ready, but when you are she will have sex with you. No withholding sex from each other.
> 
> Tell her you will let the D go on, and when you are certain she is sincere, you will call it off.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Does all of this give you a marriage you want?

There are no right and wrong answers here, but I feel if my wife is going to cheat she is going to cheat, and she will get caught.

Rather than some if the above conditions which look like a harsh kind of parole, I work on honest communications, and on a good marriage. The beat protection against cheating is to know she is happy at home, and the beat way to catch her is to be so I to ate in communications that I will pick up little signals if she is going down a wrong path.

It has worked so far.


----------



## Squeakr

Wazza said:


> Does all of this give you a marriage you want?
> 
> There are no right and wrong answers here, but I feel if my wife is going to cheat she is going to cheat, and she will get caught.
> 
> Rather than some if the above conditions which look like a harsh kind of parole, I work on honest communications, and on a good marriage. The beat protection against cheating is to know she is happy at home, and the beat way to catch her is to be so I to ate in communications that I will pick up little signals if she is going down a wrong path.
> 
> It has worked so far.


You are right that if she is going to cheat she is going to cheat, but do you want to have to deal with the aftermath of the devastation. What the above list is doing is setting boundaries (as the WS obviously has none) and creating consequences and punishments for their actions. Just as some don't believe in corporal punishment to correct behaviors, others have found it to be a very good deterrent to the negative behaviors. Just saying the stove is hot don't touch, doesn't seem to have the same results as getting a swat on the behind or actually burning one's self. Both of the negative punishments won't necessarily work on all people, but it works for the majority. People that work hard labor on the chain gang are a lot less criminally minded once they are released as those that spend their day socializing, "playing" in the yard, and learning how to beat the system from other career criminals.


----------



## Chaparral

Wazza said:


> Does all of this give you a marriage you want?
> 
> There are no right and wrong answers here, but I feel if my wife is going to cheat she is going to cheat, and she will get caught.
> 
> Rather than some if the above conditions which look like a harsh kind of parole, I work on honest communications, and on a good marriage. The beat protection against cheating is to know she is happy at home, and the beat way to catch her is to be so I to ate in communications that I will pick up little signals if she is going down a wrong path.
> 
> It has worked so far.


The problem with this is that the odds of catching a cheater are against you. 80% of cheaters are never caught. Assuming a known cheater will be obvious if they start up again seems odd.


----------



## bandit.45

Wazza said:


> Does all of this give you a marriage you want?
> 
> There are no right and wrong answers here, but I feel if my wife is going to cheat she is going to cheat, and she will get caught.
> 
> Rather than some if the above conditions which look like a harsh kind of parole, I work on honest communications, and on a good marriage. The beat protection against cheating is to know she is happy at home, and the beat way to catch her is to be so I to ate in communications that I will pick up little signals if she is going down a wrong path.
> 
> It has worked so far.


Harsher than the hell on earth the OP's wife has put him through for the last few months?

You are serious? I mean, you're joking right?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

There is nothing punitive in any of that list. I think she should keep her job by the way until OP joins the male gender and gets out and finds full time employment. 

This SAHD stuff is bullsh!t.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bfree

Wazza said:


> Does all of this give you a marriage you want?
> 
> There are no right and wrong answers here, but I feel if my wife is going to cheat she is going to cheat, and she will get caught.
> 
> Rather than some if the above conditions which look like a harsh kind of parole, I work on honest communications, and on a good marriage. The beat protection against cheating is to know she is happy at home, and the beat way to catch her is to be so I to ate in communications that I will pick up little signals if she is going down a wrong path.
> 
> It has worked so far.


See I think that those conditions just create an atmosphere where Pop can feel safe enough with her to work on the relationship and begin to build trust. Most of those "rules" would naturally fall by the wayside as the communication you speak of begins to take hold and things start to improve. I actually kind of laugh when people say "divorce her so you don't have to be her warden." The point is that eventually you get let out of jail and get to prove that you are now an upstanding member of society.


----------



## krismimo

yeah but like all criminals the record is still there no matter what they do they still have that record no matter how long ago it was or how minor the crime might have been, once caught it is never the same again. You have to adjust to rules with what you have done.


----------



## Wazza

Let's dissect the list then.



bandit.45 said:


> You get all passwords and codes to her emails and accounts. All of them, even her work accounts.


Instant dismissal if I give my wife access to my work email. Instant dismissal for her if I have hers. 
And anyone who things you can't come up with an untraceable secret messaging account or other means of electronic communication is naive.

Having said that, I do tech support for my wife's gadgets, I do know more than her, and at times I keep a quiet eye on things. But 100%, no. I get what you are trying to achieve, but it is like trying to fill in the grand canyon with a teaspoon.



bandit.45 said:


> She writes a letter to the OM telling him the affair is dead and she will not be communicating with him.


No problems with this per se, and know it is standard advice, but if I were going to seduce another man's wife, I can't imagine a letter stopping me. What matters is the wife's commitment, and does a letter guarantee that?



bandit.45 said:


> She writes a letter to the OMW apologizing to her, as complete an apology as she can muster.


No issue with this one.



bandit.45 said:


> Your wife sits down with both sets of in-laws and comes clean about what she did.


I don't want a wife with a scarlet letter tattooed to her forehead. I don't want to grind her into the ground or humiliate her. I care about her, and I don't want to destroy her relationships with other family members.

At the time of Mrs Wazza's affair I told her parents, because she needed support I could not provide. I never told mine, and I see no point. 



bandit.45 said:


> The two of you attend both IC and MC . This is non-negotiable.


Good idea imo.



bandit.45 said:


> From this day forward she is a nun. Outside of her daily work or business calls, she has NO, NONE, NADA contact with any male who is not a sibling, parent or in-law....NONE. She announces to any male friends she has that she can no longer associate.


Again I think this is impossible. I would have a talk about limits on opposite sex friends, but the limits have to be realistic.

Side comment, I assume everyone is a potential cheater (me included) but some are more vulnerable than others. Therefore, whatever limits I would impose on her, I would also have to impose on myself. And if that isn't enough, then I am with the wrong woman.



bandit.45 said:


> She gets a full work up for STDs.


Agree. This is literally a life and death matter.



bandit.45 said:


> She calls you and tells your where she is at at all times. She installs a GPS on her phone and car so you can verify her whereabouts.


Again I get the idea but it is overkill. I would (do) check up from time to time, but I think it is better to not tell in advance how I am going to do it. 



bandit.45 said:


> No more secrets between the two of you, NONE.


This one is complex. Some secrets are necessary and some may be unavoidable, but in general I would say open communication is important. 

And again, the question, how are you going to check up on each other? By definition, if she's going to lie she is going to lie.

Side comment....Mrs Wazza fell into the affair in small stages....if she had been able to talk about her struggles at any stage, and if I had been able to deal with it appropriately, we might have avoided the whole thing. The tragedy is neither of us really had much understanding of how infidelity works before the fact.



bandit.45 said:


> She burns all clothing, lingerie and momentos associated with the affair with you present.


No issues if that is what you want. We never did that but I will broaden it out and say, eliminate anything you can that is a potential trigger for grief (you can't get them all, but anything helps).



bandit.45 said:


> No more financial infidelity. All her credit and debit accounts will be reviewed by you whenever you want.


I think this is another one that would be easy to cheat if I wanted to. And i think some secrets are nice. Cost of romantic gifts for example.



bandit.45 said:


> She sleeps in a separate bedroom if you want her to. No sex until YOU are ready, but when you are she will have sex with you. No withholding sex from each other.


No sex until you are ready and no withholding sex from each other...I don't think these two can coexist.

You can say no but she can't......kind of reduces her to the status of an inflatable. Sorry, but I find it distasteful.



bandit.45 said:


> Tell her you will let the D go on, and when you are certain she is sincere, you will call it off.


Fine if that is what you choose to do. But again, I am not into torture. If I have to crush her to keep her, I would rather let her go.

I want a relationship with another human being who I respect as an equal. And I want workable measures that allow me to have a good relationship while still minimising the risk of the affair. 

This is the real world. You might want certainty, but it doesn't exist.


----------



## Wazza

Chaparral said:


> The problem with this is that the odds of catching a cheater are against you. 80% of cheaters are never caught. Assuming a known cheater will be obvious if they start up again seems odd.


And they were able to count the 80% of cheaters who were never caught because......?

Dunno, the figure might really be 99.99% never caught. Or 1%.

But you have to be careful quoting stats on the internet, because 75.8% of them are made up.


----------



## Wazza

bfree said:


> See I think that those conditions just create an atmosphere where Pop can feel safe enough with her to work on the relationship and begin to build trust. Most of those "rules" would naturally fall by the wayside as the communication you speak of begins to take hold and things start to improve. I actually kind of laugh when people say "divorce her so you don't have to be her warden." The point is that eventually you get let out of jail and get to prove that you are now an upstanding member of society.


Well, I am up to 23 years and suspicion still takes hold sometimes. 

But if you are saying the list is a short term measure, maybe, however I stand by my belief that many of those measures are childishly simple to defeat if she so wishes, and a more subtle approach would work better. If you want a degree of surveillance of your wife, it is far more effective if she doesn't actually know what you are monitoring. 

That list might make some betrayed husbands feel better, but anyone who thinks it is going to stop a determined cheater hasn't had to deal with one imo.


----------



## LongWalk

I agree with you Waza that the list is too... too mechanical. Many of these measures are super when they are spontaneously engaged by a BS who has good instincts. I am less certain that when they come as a set of instructions that they will serve the purpose. After all, if the WS is trying to re-establish honest communication and instead they feel that their spouse is following a cookbook from the Internet, then the spontaneity of the effort will diminish.

Certain measures, e.g., outing the WS to family, well, you have to take into consideration what sort of family you have. Suppose MIL or Uncle Bob are difficult people to begin with, so you want to have them talking about the affair the next year or two... or decade or two?

Quitting jobs is not always realistic. The pet dog and kids need to eat.

What sort of adulterer are you dealing with? 

There are all sorts of details that require individual consideration.

Openness about the affair. That's something that is necessary. The WS cannot have a bunch of happy private memories.


----------



## 3putt

Wazza, I was with you until you ventured into the no secrets part of it. This is a condition that is at the soul discretion of the BS. If they have no problem with secrets when it comes to gifts, surprise parties, etc. then fine. Conversely, if that surprise is also a trigger action, then those "secrets" should be tabled fully until the BS is okay with it. Just like if a GNO is the cause, then no more GNOs until the BS is comfortable with the idea (and I don't think many of us ever would). 

The WS lost their rights to secrets when those same secretive actions led them into the mess they now find themselves. It's not a one size fits all, of course, but it IS up to the BS to determine when and what is okay.

Disclosing cost of gifts, "surprise" parties, etc, is a small price to pay for allowing the BS to feel at ease and in a comfortable, and trigger free, frame of mind.

JMO


----------



## bfree

Wazza said:


> Well, I am up to 23 years and suspicion still takes hold sometimes.
> 
> But if you are saying the list is a short term measure, maybe, however I stand by my belief that many of those measures are childishly simple to defeat if she so wishes, and a more subtle approach would work better. If you want a degree of surveillance of your wife, it is far more effective if she doesn't actually know what you are monitoring.
> 
> That list might make some betrayed husbands feel better, but anyone who thinks it is going to stop a determined cheater hasn't had to deal with one imo.


Didn't say it would stop someone from cheating. If someone wants to cheat they will. I see it more like showing the WS that the BS is serious and will hold them accountable (i.e. no rugsweeping) and allowing the BS some degree of knowledge that there are solid boundaries in place. Boundaries can be broken and consequences only have an effect if the WS cares. But its at least something isn't it? Think of it this way. Did you always know how to drive a car? When you were taught weren't you given rules of the road and methods for effective and safe driving. Those rules still exist but you don't think of them all the time right? And the methods you might have used in the beginning are now just instinctive. You don't think of how to back up, you just know how and do it. I think the same applies here. There is no manual for dealing with infidelity. If certain mechanical rules help in the beginning until you get your feet under you again I don't see the harm.


----------



## bandit.45

You people could pick apart a bowling ball.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Wazza

3putt said:


> Wazza, I was with you until you ventured into the no secrets part of it. This is a condition that is at the soul discretion of the BS. If they have no problem with secrets when it comes to gifts, surprise parties, etc. then fine. Conversely, if that surprise is also a trigger action, then those "secrets" should be tabled fully until the BS is okay with it. Just like if a GNO is the cause, then no more GNOs until the BS is comfortable with the idea (and I don't think many of us ever would).
> 
> The WS lost their rights to secrets when those same secretive actions led them into the mess they now find themselves. It's not a one size fits all, of course, but it IS up to the BS to determine when and what is okay.
> 
> Disclosing cost of gifts, "surprise" parties, etc, is a small price to pay for allowing the BS to feel at ease and in a comfortable, and trigger free, frame of mind.
> 
> JMO


As the BS, I had no power. My wife made decisions that destroyed my heart and gave me no say. The only decision that is solely my discretion is whether I will walk. That is how I see it.

So I can impose a "no secrets" rule, but my wife can say..."Not worth it, I am outa here".

In the short term, I might be able to threaten divorce and get some onerous conditions agreed to, but you have to think about the long term. Unless you strengthen the marriage in the short term, I don't see how it will survive in the long term. That is my real concern about Bandit's list. Crushing my wife increases the danger that she will choose to leave in the future.


----------



## Wazza

bfree said:


> There is no manual for dealing with infidelity. If certain mechanical rules help in the beginning until you get your feet under you again I don't see the harm.


The ones I objected to either crushed the wife and damages the relationship long term, or created a false sense of security by creating the impression of disclosure while making it easy to take things underground. That was why I dissented.

But as a starting point, there is a lot in that list worth considering. And each marriage might find different things useful.


----------



## Chaparral

Its about boundaries, expectations and consequences. There should be no secrets in a real marriage where two people become one. Privacy is for the bathroom. Suggesting buying presents and keeping it a secret is relevant to this discussion is insulting.

Sure, some companies have high security requirments for passwords. Again you are trying to throw out a reasonable request on a technicality that my or may not exist. Even so, is the job more important than the marriage?


----------



## theroad

bfree said:


> Can you tell me again why this hasn't been exposed at work? Why is she still working there if there is potential contact? If you're going to divorce then do it and then you need not worry about her job, meetings or the OM. Honestly I'm thinking that this half way R you are attempting is just you wasting time while you work up the courage to file. If that is the case please stop torturing yourself and do it.


Just read this today. Full formal work place exposure is a must.

If not the OM will be banging your WW again.


----------



## theroad

poppoppop said:


> Thanks to everyone for your replies. I did what one poster suggested. I called her work's HR department to find out the policy. However, unless I could confirm who I was or who my wife was, they were unwilling to share the policy. However, the HR person did say there is a policy in place for such a thing and that there IS a form of disciplinary action. I'm guessing that would be my wife getting fired because the OM is higher up than her.
> 
> Not planning on using that information as another poster has said, I'm being too reactive lately and not thinking out my decisions. But it's good to know I have that in my pocket.
> 
> Regarding whether or not there was ever an email or memo or something...I know they did not like me coming to the meetings because her manager at the time came up to me at a function and explained it to me very apologetically.
> 
> At this point, I don't really feel like it's even time to R. I think because I'm so manic, I don't know where I'm shooting, so I'm trying to do everything all at once. But yeah, my mind is no where near figuring out what I should do. I'm gonna spend my energies towards walking away from her. Yes, I still lover her, but it's been too much for me to figure out while I still have contact with her.



CEI likes this?

CEI must not like exposure. Because what the OP did is not exposure.


----------



## theroad

poppoppop said:


> No...there were 3 trips planned over 6 weeks. The first one was supposed to be last week. It was cancelled. The next one is 4 weeks from now and the one I just discovered the hotel reservations. It was also cancelled. The 3rd is 5 weeks from now and she is definitely going to see him there.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Because she knows you have no testicles.

You will not work place expose and will not file for divorce. You just rant at her once in a while. Then let her plan on how she is going to meet up and bang the OM.


----------



## theroad

OnTheRocks said:


> I love all the armchair lawyers in here saying you won't get sued. They are all wrong. You can file a civil suit against anyone for anything. It is fundamental to the way the US legal system works. That doesn't mean it will go anywhere, but merely responding to a frivolous case can still be a major hassle and expense.
> 
> Are you in an alimony State? Her being terminated could greatly affect your post-divorce lifestyle.
> 
> Tread carefully here, and only follow the advice of your lawyer.
> 
> Great job on everything so far.


And the OP can counter sue. In reality no lawyer is going to file a case with no merit. There will be no money for him.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Just found out about my wife cheating*



Wazza said:


> The ones I objected to either crushed the wife and damages the relationship long term, or created a false sense of security by creating the impression of disclosure while making it easy to take things underground. That was why I dissented.
> 
> But as a starting point, there is a lot in that list worth considering. And each marriage might find different things useful.


So to further help Pop with useful suggestions which ones do you see as punitive because frankly I don't see any suggestions that Bandit made in that way.


----------



## theroad

3putt said:


> Did you notify 2 VPs as well? Those 2 are key as some of the others could engage in a massive rug sweep, especially since your WW reports to the HR head. The HR head may already be in the know about what's going on, and is actually covering for your wife. It's imperative you send that info to 2 VPs to ensure accountability amongst the others.
> 
> No shortcuts, bro. Balls to the wall.


Work exposure targets.

Owner, CEO, Director of HR, Board of Directors.

All the people involved that will worry about law suits. They will have no problem throwing OM and WW under the bus to protect the corporation. Any management down the food chain will be tempted to protect their cheating friends first. Because they are not fiscally liable to protect the corp.


----------



## theroad

poppoppop said:


> JCD: I agree things were messed up before. I get that. I know she has to want to return to a better place. But there is no excuse for cheating. I totally understand my part in this, but the affair is inexcusable. That being said, I really do appreciate that perspective. The problem so far though has been that she hasn't really wanted to try for an R. Until now....
> 
> Well, I went ahead and started the process. I gave her the divorce papers and my demands and started contacting her friends to let them know what is going on. I printed the letters to send to HR at her work. I had to run out tonight to take care of a few things. During that time, I sent a text to the OM saying that we are getting divorced. He responded by saying he was working on his family and not to contact him again. I sent him a copy of the letter and he freaked out. His wife started contacting me begging not to send the letter. He ignored me, but all of a sudden, he started asking what I wanted. I told him to think something up. He was calm at first but I could tell he was getting nervous.
> 
> Later I actually called him. He didn't pick up, but all of a sudden, he picked up and I spoke to him. He was mad I called but it soon went from angry to terrified. His wife was in the background asking what I wanted. After a long silence by me, he finally started begging and pleading with me. Then he got very defensive and said he was blocking my number and calling an attorney.
> 
> I walked back in the house after talking to him outside and my wife was standing there with tears. I knew she hadn't talked to him because he had just hung up on me, but it ends up she was in tears because she saw the divorce forms. Also, one of her friends contacted her. So she knew I was contacting people today. She apologized profusely and said she knew what a mistake this was and not to divorce and to let us have a chance. She said she hated seeing me so angry and hurt and just wants to try to reconcile. I asked her what brought it on and she said it was the divorce papers. I asked if she saw anything else or heard anything else. She said no. I asked her if she would be willing to give up her job because of this. She said that if it would give us a chance then she would.
> 
> I showed her the letters to HR and told her about contacting the OM. She did not get mad about it, but said she would like to stop contact with him and asked that she have a chance to find another job instead of being fired. After talking to the OM and his wife, I believe they have not been in contact. My wife cried the whole night and it's been about 5 hours since we started talking. She finally seemed remorseful and genuine. She asked me please for another chance. She said she would be completely transparent from now on. I told her we still need time apart. She asked if I would be willing to go to couples counseling (if you've been following along, she initially said no when I brought it up.) I agreed but said we should still spend time apart to see if I can ever get over this.




A smart general never tells his enemies about what he is going to do. It only allows the OM to preempt and defeat his plans. Same for the WW.

OP is confused with telling his WW that he going to expose is the same as exposing.


----------



## theroad

bandit.45 said:


> Sit down with her and write out a list of YOUR demands and expectations. Here are some I would list:
> 
> You get all passwords and codes to her emails and accounts. All of them, even her work accounts.
> 
> She writes a letter to the OM telling him the affair is dead and she will not be communicating with him.
> 
> She writes a letter to the OMW apologizing to her, as complete an apology as she can muster.
> 
> Your wife sits down with both sets of in-laws and comes clean about what she did.
> 
> The two of you attend both IC and MC . This is non-negotiable.
> 
> From this day forward she is a nun. Outside of her daily work or business calls, she has NO, NONE, NADA contact with any male who is not a sibling, parent or in-law....NONE. She announces to any male friends she has that she can no longer associate.
> 
> She gets a full work up for STDs.
> 
> She calls you and tells your where she is at at all times. She installs a GPS on her phone and car so you can verify her whereabouts.
> 
> No more secrets between the two of you, NONE.
> 
> She burns all clothing, lingerie and momentos associated with the affair with you present.
> 
> No more financial infidelity. All her credit and debit accounts will be reviewed by you whenever you want.
> 
> She sleeps in a separate bedroom if you want her to. No sex until YOU are ready, but when you are she will have sex with you. No withholding sex from each other.
> 
> Tell her you will let the D go on, and when you are certain she is sincere, you will call it off.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





tom67 said:


> Yes:iagree::iagree:


A next step after a full and formal work place exposure.


----------



## turnera

Typically, it's the higher up who gets fired, as the underling can sue for sexual harassment from a superior.


----------



## JCD

3putt said:


> Wazza, I was with you until you ventured into the no secrets part of it. This is a condition that is at the soul discretion of the BS. If they have no problem with secrets when it comes to gifts, surprise parties, etc. then fine. Conversely, if that surprise is also a trigger action, then those "secrets" should be tabled fully until the BS is okay with it. Just like if a GNO is the cause, then no more GNOs until the BS is comfortable with the idea (and I don't think many of us ever would).
> 
> The WS lost their rights to secrets when those same secretive actions led them into the mess they now find themselves. It's not a one size fits all, of course, but it IS up to the BS to determine when and what is okay.
> 
> Disclosing cost of gifts, "surprise" parties, etc, is a small price to pay for allowing the BS to feel at ease and in a comfortable, and trigger free, frame of mind.
> 
> JMO


Well, unless you know a Vulcan who can mind meld with the spouse, how exactly do you know if they have a secret or not?

You don't. Sad to say, it is at the discretion of the other person.

This lack of control rankles many BS and they want to pretend they can have control. They can't.

My wife was wise enough to realize that. If I was going to cheat, I'd do it. So she, AFAIK, doesn't monitor crap. 

It comes down to character. I have been a 'good boy' for about 20 months with my wife having almost no ability to keep track of me Now, according to many here, this is impossible, because it is dogma that unless we cheaters have a GPS shoved up our ass, we're going to find some new lover as soon as the BS's eyes are off of us.

This is one of the hugely offensive attitudes I find on this site.


----------



## bfree

JCD said:


> Well, unless you know a Vulcan who can mind meld with the spouse, how exactly do you know if they have a secret or not?
> 
> You don't. Sad to say, it is at the discretion of the other person.
> 
> This lack of control rankles many BS and they want to pretend they can have control. They can't.
> 
> My wife was wise enough to realize that. If I was going to cheat, I'd do it. So she, AFAIK, doesn't monitor crap.
> 
> It comes down to character. I have been a 'good boy' for about 20 months with my wife having almost no ability to keep track of me Now, according to many here, this is impossible, because it is dogma that unless we cheaters have a GPS shoved up our ass, we're going to find some new lover as soon as the BS's eyes are off of us.
> 
> This is one of the hugely offensive attitudes I find on this site.


I wish I knew a Vulcan.

Anyway, is it really that people believe that a WS cannot be trusted without a GPS shoved in their rectums or is the rectum GPS just so that the BS can feel more secure staying with the WS?

JCD, your wife was able to continue the marriage without a rectumly located GPS (for which I'm sure you are eternally grateful.) Wazza as the BS was able to continue the marriage without his wife having a GPS in her rectum. But not all WS's are like you and not all BS's are like Wazza. Do you acknowledge that some BS's would not ever feel safe or secure enough to even attempt R without a rectm GPS...at least temporarily?


----------



## Chaparral

JCD said:


> Well, unless you know a Vulcan who can mind meld with the spouse, how exactly do you know if they have a secret or not?
> 
> You don't. Sad to say, it is at the discretion of the other person.
> 
> This lack of control rankles many BS and they want to pretend they can have control. They can't.
> 
> My wife was wise enough to realize that. If I was going to cheat, I'd do it. So she, AFAIK, doesn't monitor crap.
> 
> It comes down to character. I have been a 'good boy' for about 20 months with my wife having almost no ability to keep track of me Now, according to many here, this is impossible, because it is dogma that unless we cheaters have a GPS shoved up our ass, we're going to find some new lover as soon as the BS's eyes are off of us.
> 
> This is one of the hugely offensive attitudes I find on this site.




Experience is still the best teacher and the number of cheaters that have been discussed here and also those that have posted here, that have cheated again is very high..............very, very high. After all, if one can cheat one time, they can rationalize doing it again. Asking someone to trust you after you have shown you can't be trusted, isn't much of a plan.


----------



## JCD

bfree said:


> I wish I knew a Vulcan.
> 
> Anyway, is it really that people believe that a WS cannot be trusted without a GPS shoved in their rectums or is the rectum GPS just so that the BS can feel more secure staying with the WS?
> 
> JCD, your wife was able to continue the marriage without a rectumly located GPS (for which I'm sure you are eternally grateful.) Wazza as the BS was able to continue the marriage without his wife having a GPS in her rectum. But not all WS's are like you and not all BS's are like Wazza. Do you acknowledge that some BS's would not ever feel safe or secure enough to even attempt R without a rectm GPS...at least temporarily?


As I've mentioned before, most cheating is done in a bad or damaged marriage already.

This might very well raise the cost of R beyond what the WS is willing to pay, marriages which COULD have become better and WERE worth something.

So I am not suggesting that it NEVER be done. I am suggesting that there is a price to pay for that reaction as well, as I think Wazza was also indicating.

My suggestion, use a lot of lube.


----------



## JCD

Chaparral said:


> Experience is still the best teacher and the number of cheaters that have been discussed here and also those that have posted here, that have cheated again is very high..............very, very high. After all, if one can cheat one time, they can rationalize doing it again. Asking someone to trust you after you have shown you can't be trusted, isn't much of a plan.


I think there is a lot of ground between rectally inserted GPS and 'doing nothing'.

As a cheater, I have an obligation to be a lot more honest to the spouse about whereabouts, accounts and who I am in contact with.

To wit: I was at a bar with some friends without the wife. I was hit on HARD by a rather attractive woman.

There was no way for my wife to know about this. I told her anyway, if for no other reason than to remove the temptation FROM ME.

Adultery can be a life changing thing for the WS as well as the BS. Sometimes, we learn.


----------



## Wazza

Chaparral said:


> Its about boundaries, expectations and consequences. There should be no secrets in a real marriage where two people become one. Privacy is for the bathroom. Suggesting buying presents and keeping it a secret is relevant to this discussion is insulting.
> 
> Sure, some companies have high security requirments for passwords. Again you are trying to throw out a reasonable request on a technicality that my or may not exist. Even so, is the job more important than the marriage?


Not trying to throw things out on technicalities.

I agree some secrets are bad. Not all, but some. However the trick is to stop them being kept. The idea of discussing it is good, imo, but mandating it is simply unenforceable.

Same with the email...all that stress and so easy to bypass. When Mrs Wazza cheated I had six months of assurance after assurance, confession after confession, trickle truth after trickle truth, and it was all bullsh1t. I found out something was happening because someone saw them kissing and told me. ("It was just a kiss. He kissed me, I didn't do anything.") I found out more by digging in ways my wife didn't expect. If I had warned her she would have covered her tracks better and I would have been screwed. 

Honestly, most of the things on the list are a good ideas for discussion, but not so much as a way to ensure future fidelity in the face of a spouse who chooses to cheat. That's my view anyway. OP can decide.


----------



## Wazza

bfree said:


> So to further help Pop with useful suggestions which ones do you see as punitive because frankly I don't see any suggestions that Bandit made in that way.


You don't have to agree with me, and I may be wrong  Do you really not see any of the suggestions as punitive?


----------



## Squeakr

Wazza said:


> Not trying to throw things out on technicalities.
> 
> I agree some secrets are bad. Not all, but some. However the trick is to stop them being kept. The idea of discussing it is good, imo, but mandating it is simply unenforceable.
> 
> Same with the email...all that stress and so easy to bypass. When Mrs Wazza cheated I had six months of assurance after assurance, confession after confession, trickle truth after trickle truth, and it was all bullsh1t. I found out something was happening because someone saw them kissing and told me. ("It was just a kiss. He kissed me, I didn't do anything.") I found out more by digging in ways my wife didn't expect. If I had warned her she would have covered her tracks better and I would have been screwed.
> 
> Honestly, most of the things on the list are a good ideas for discussion, but not so much as a way to ensure future fidelity in the face of a spouse who chooses to cheat. That's my view anyway. OP can decide.


I agree with lots of your points, but this list is more a list of boundaries and what one will accept. It needs to be something that both parties agree to. These are some good demands and a good starting place. They aren't meant to be an absolute because where there is a will there is a way. These just spell out expectations and what one deems acceptable. They are no different than any other rules or laws. They are only as enforceable as one is willing to follow them. Rules and laws mean nothing without the willingness to follow and conform to them. 

I can see how some would claim they would crush a WS, but would it do any worse damage than what crushing has already been done by the WS to the BS? I see it as a form of punishment only the WS gets to decide if they accept it or of they don't and move on. The BS was never given that choice in the beginning. So this fairness in the relationship already doesn't exist.

Why is the BS always expected to take the moral and high ground or things are being to vindictive or punishing/ hurtful? What about the damages that have already occurred?

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Wazza

bfree said:


> I wish I knew a Vulcan.
> 
> Anyway, is it really that people believe that a WS cannot be trusted without a GPS shoved in their rectums or is the rectum GPS just so that the BS can feel more secure staying with the WS?
> 
> JCD, your wife was able to continue the marriage without a rectumly located GPS (for which I'm sure you are eternally grateful.) Wazza as the BS was able to continue the marriage without his wife having a GPS in her rectum. But not all WS's are like you and not all BS's are like Wazza. Do you acknowledge that some BS's would not ever feel safe or secure enough to even attempt R without a rectm GPS...at least temporarily?


GPS didn't exist (like it does today) in 1990.

Look I get the desire.....more than you can know I get it.....my point is it is an illusion. And the illusion is dangerous...you think it is ok, while your spouse continues the affair. 

See Eric415's thread for example with defeating GPS.

Monitoring email, check out RDMU's thread.

These guys got the goods by outsmarting their spouses. By doing stuff that wasn't expected.

Bottom line, a lot of BS'es are not able to continue the marriage. And I get that. I stayed for the kids, but if Mrs Wazza were a different person I would have dumped her either when the kids were grown, or if her behaviour continued and became unbearable. As it was we had several years when we were really no more than domestic business partners.

I just scratch my head at the thought of taking a spouse who was unhappy enough to cheat, taking several actions designed to increase their unhappiness, and expecting them to stay.


----------



## Wazza

Chaparral said:


> Experience is still the best teacher and the number of cheaters that have been discussed here and also those that have posted here, that have cheated again is very high..............very, very high. After all, if one can cheat one time, they can rationalize doing it again. Asking someone to trust you after you have shown you can't be trusted, isn't much of a plan.


lol....fine plan...but as the BS I would advise not to trust again in a hurry!!


----------



## Wazza

Squeakr said:


> I agree with lots of your points, but this list is more a list of boundaries and what one will accept. It needs to be something that both parties agree to. These are some good demands and a good starting place. They aren't meant to be an absolute because where there is a will there is a way. These just spell out expectations and what one deems acceptable. They are no different than any other rules or laws. They are only as enforceable as one is willing to follow them. Rules and laws mean nothing without the willingness to follow and conform to them.
> 
> I can see how some would claim they would crush a WS, but would it do any worse damage than what crushing has already been done by the WS to the BS? I see it as a form of punishment only the WS gets to decide if they accept it or of they don't and move on. The BS was never given that choice in the beginning. So this fairness in the relationship already doesn't exist.
> 
> Why is the BS always expected to take the moral and high ground or things are being to vindictive or punishing/ hurtful? What about the damages that have already occurred?
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I fought dirty where necessary. 

I am not arguing moral high ground, I am arguing what i see as pragmatic necessity.


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Just found out about my wife cheating*



Wazza said:


> You don't have to agree with me, and I may be wrong  Do you really not see any of the suggestions as punitive?



As long as they are temporary and the reasons why the BS feels they are necessary are explained then no I don't really see them as punitive. What suggestions do you see as too firm or restrictive?


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Just found out about my wife cheating*



Wazza said:


> GPS didn't exist (like it does today) in 1990.
> 
> Look I get the desire.....more than you can know I get it.....my point is it is an illusion. And the illusion is dangerous...you think it is ok, while your spouse continues the affair.
> 
> See Eric415's thread for example with defeating GPS.
> 
> Monitoring email, check out RDMU's thread.
> 
> These guys got the goods by outsmarting their spouses. By doing stuff that wasn't expected.
> 
> Bottom line, a lot of BS'es are not able to continue the marriage. And I get that. I stayed for the kids, but if Mrs Wazza were a different person I would have dumped her either when the kids were grown, or if her behaviour continued and became unbearable. As it was we had several years when we were really no more than domestic business partners.
> 
> I just scratch my head at the thought of taking a spouse who was unhappy enough to cheat, taking several actions designed to increase their unhappiness, and expecting them to stay.


But you and I are looking at it in two completely different ways. There is no way to be sure that your spouse is not going to continue their affair. There is no rules that can be put in place to stop it. But that's not what I see them as. I see then as a way for the BS to feel secure enough to begin working on R. If the BS is constantly worrying whether their spouse is still cheating they are in no position to make progress are they? Is your suggestion that they not only try to put all their pain behind them but also to work on the relationship and at the same time be on the lookout for signs that their spouse is still cheating. If I were the BS I would be mentally exhausted in the first week and throw in the towel.


----------



## Wazza

bfree said:


> As long as they are temporary and the reasons why the BS feels they are necessary are explained then no I don't really see them as punitive. What suggestions do you see as too firm or restrictive?


Well, remember we are focussing on the punitive ones here, not the ones I think just won't work.

How do you end all contact with any males with whom you associate and not have a permanent loss of those relationships? Do you do it without explanation? Do you confess the affair to every male you know? Or do you lie?

And why exclude family members. Sometimes the affair partner is a family member?

Then telling both sets of parents? What if things are already strained with the in laws? How do you tell them and not make it worse? Plus the collateral damage if in laws spread the word.

In the long term, for some couples these ideas might be good, and for others I am sure they would be actively damaging.

The affair can be a crisis for the WS too. What support do they get In trying to turn things around?


----------



## bfree

*Re: Re: Just found out about my wife cheating*



Wazza said:


> Well, remember we are focussing on the punitive ones here, not the ones I think just won't work.
> 
> How do you end all contact with any males with whom you associate and not have a permanent loss of those relationships? Do you do it without explanation? Do you confess the affair to every male you know? Or do you lie?
> 
> And why exclude family members. Sometimes the affair partner is a family member?
> 
> Then telling both sets of parents? What if things are already strained with the in laws? How do you tell them and not make it worse? Plus the collateral damage if in laws spread the word.
> 
> In the long term, for some couples these ideas might be good, and for others I am sure they would be actively damaging.
> 
> The affair can be a crisis for the WS too. What support do they get In trying to turn things around?



C'mon Wazza, you're better than that. An affair partner that is also a family member? Do you honestly think a R will occur under those circumstances? As far as ending contact with other males if it makes the BS more secure why not? Obviously you wouldn't end contact with male family members and men like a supervisor at work or a pastor of a church would be exceptions don't you think? Why would you need to give anyone a reason? They're not family so no explanation is necessary. Let them wonder. If I were bothered by any of my wife's male friends she would drop them in a NY minute no question. And there had never been infidelity in our marriage. Telling the in laws is a good idea in that outside of the husband and wife they are usually the closest people that can help support the couple. Obviously not all in law relationships are strong enough that this will always work. But these are only suggestions right? No R is the same just like not all WS are the same and not all BS are the same. But Bandits list of conditions is a darned good starting point.


----------



## Wazza

bfree said:


> C'mon Wazza, you're better than that. An affair partner that is also a family member? Do you honestly think a R will occur under those circumstances? As far as ending contact with other males if it makes the BS more secure why not? Obviously you wouldn't end contact with male family members and men like a supervisor at work or a pastor of a church would be exceptions don't you think? Why would you need to give anyone a reason? They're not family so no explanation is necessary. Let them wonder. If I were bothered by any of my wife's male friends she would drop them in a NY minute no question. And there had never been infidelity in our marriage. Telling the in laws is a good idea in that outside of the husband and wife they are usually the closest people that can help support the couple. Obviously not all in law relationships are strong enough that this will always work. But these are only suggestions right? No R is the same just like not all WS are the same and not all BS are the same. But Bandits list of conditions is a darned good starting point.


An affair partner family member and reconciliation...well DadWithTwoLittle Girls comes to mind immediately. His brother was Lisa's first AP.

I cannot agree about in laws. Why are there so many mother in law jokes? Maybe I am biased because my in laws have always ben very hard work. Blood is thicker than water. Eric415 and BFF come to mind as cases where the BS told the in laws and had them supporting their wayward children. 

Look, I have argues my case, you have argued yours. OP has what he needs to evaluate the ideas for his circumstances. We agree to disagree and I owe you and Bandit both a beer?


----------



## bandit.45

Wazza a I can't believe you spent an entire day debating the life of someone you and I don't even know. At least I took a break and went shopping and to the gym. 


Dude....


Thanks for the beer offer but I cannot drink. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Wazza

bandit.45 said:


> Wazza a I can't believe you spent an entire day debating the life of someone you and I don't even know. At least I took a break and went shopping and to the gym.
> 
> 
> Dude....
> 
> 
> Thanks for the beer offer but I cannot drink.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Reconciliation is hard work, and I wish I had discussions like this to help me.

I'm on holidays right now, got a couple other things done.


----------



## Mustbecrazy

Don't ask the OM for anything other than NC. Otherwise, you risk extortion. Make your wife change jobs and get the OM fired, or both. How many lives does he have to ruin?


----------



## poppoppop

Wow, I've been away for a few days and didn't realize the discussion had developed into this. 

Here's the latest update: We are working on R. The OM is terrified of me. He went the opposite direction. Instead of trying to avoid HR, he actually called HR and said I was a danger to him. My wife got called in to talk to someone at HR today. The OM didn't even have the decency to give my wife a heads up. She got ambushed at work. I'm fairly certain at this point that the OM is going nowhere near my wife. I'm also fairly certain that my wife is seeing the OM for what he really is: a self serving coward.


----------



## LostViking

poppoppop said:


> Wow, I've been away for a few days and didn't realize the discussion had developed into this.
> 
> Here's the latest update: We are working on R. The OM is terrified of me. He went the opposite direction. Instead of trying to avoid HR, he actually called HR and said I was a danger to him. My wife got called in to talk to someone at HR today. The OM didn't even have the decency to give my wife a heads up. She got ambushed at work. I'm fairly certain at this point that the OM is going nowhere near my wife. I'm also fairly certain that my wife is seeing the OM for what he really is: a self serving coward.


Ahhhhh. Like slipping into a warm bath watching your wife and her OM squirm. 

Don't give your wife the benefit of the doubt just yet. She may still want out of the marriage and may just be biding her time until another likely lad comes along. 

As for reconciling with her? Slow the fvck fown. Step back, take plenty of time and observe her actions. Ignore her "I'm sorrys" and "I love yous" and watch her actions. She may try to rope you in to a false reconciliation. Your forgiveness should be hard earned. No freebies.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

poppoppop said:


> Wow, I've been away for a few days and didn't realize the discussion had developed into this.
> 
> Here's the latest update: We are working on R. The OM is terrified of me. He went the opposite direction. Instead of trying to avoid HR, he actually called HR and said I was a danger to him. My wife got called in to talk to someone at HR today. The OM didn't even have the decency to give my wife a heads up. She got ambushed at work. I'm fairly certain at this point that the OM is going nowhere near my wife. I'm also fairly certain that my wife is seeing the OM for what he really is: a self serving coward.


He is a *COWARD!!!!!!!*


----------



## 3putt

poppoppop said:


> Wow, I've been away for a few days and didn't realize the discussion had developed into this.
> 
> Here's the latest update: We are working on R. The OM is terrified of me. He went the opposite direction. Instead of trying to avoid HR, he actually called HR and said I was a danger to him. My wife got called in to talk to someone at HR today. The OM didn't even have the decency to give my wife a heads up. She got ambushed at work. I'm fairly certain at this point that the OM is going nowhere near my wife. I'm also fairly certain that my wife is seeing the OM for what he really is: a self serving coward.


Pop, just from where did this information come? Your already proven to be liar WW, or another source?

Don't underestimate the lengths that adulterers will go to to maintain their little lurvenest. They could just being trying to head you off at the pass with an elaborate ploy. It certainly wouldn't be a first.

You need to verify this.


----------



## TDSC60

poppoppop said:


> Wow, I've been away for a few days and didn't realize the discussion had developed into this.
> 
> Here's the latest update: We are working on R. The OM is terrified of me. He went the opposite direction. Instead of trying to avoid HR, he actually called HR and said I was a danger to him. My wife got called in to talk to someone at HR today. The OM didn't even have the decency to give my wife a heads up. She got ambushed at work. I'm fairly certain at this point that the OM is going nowhere near my wife. I'm also fairly certain that my wife is seeing the OM for what he really is: a self serving coward.


Does HR know about the affair? And exactly how do you know all of this? Your wife tell you? This could very well be a ploy they are both cooked up to keep their jobs. Verify! Verify! If OM did actually name you as a danger to him then HR should talk to you.

I believe I would have to contact HR by phone and have a chat myself.


----------



## theroad

3putt said:


> Pop, just from where did this information come? Your already proven to be liar WW, or another source?
> 
> Don't underestimate the lengths that adulterers will go to to maintain their little lurvenest. They could just being trying to head you off at the pass with an elaborate ploy. It certainly wouldn't be a first.
> 
> You need to verify this.





TDSC60 said:


> Does HR know about the affair? And exactly how do you know all of this? Your wife tell you? This could very well be a ploy they are both cooked up to keep their jobs. Verify! Verify! If OM did actually name you as a danger to him then HR should talk to you.
> 
> I believe I would have to contact HR by phone and have a chat myself.


Yes you must do a work place exposure and verify that you have been told the truth.


----------



## tom67

poppoppop said:


> Wow, I've been away for a few days and didn't realize the discussion had developed into this.
> 
> Here's the latest update: We are working on R. The OM is terrified of me. He went the opposite direction. Instead of trying to avoid HR, he actually called HR and said I was a danger to him. My wife got called in to talk to someone at HR today. The OM didn't even have the decency to give my wife a heads up. She got ambushed at work. I'm fairly certain at this point that the OM is going nowhere near my wife. I'm also fairly certain that my wife is seeing the OM for what he really is: a self serving coward.


EXPOSURE!! LOOK WHAT HAPPENS!:lol::lol::rofl: Verify this though.


----------



## tom67

happyman64 said:


> He is a *COWARD!!!!!!!*


Oh pop now you have to show up in phoenix just to see if he runs away.


----------



## JCD

He's defending HIS family. Shrug. Not to say he didn't have this grief coming, but he is doing what he has to do.

Plus he is doing it as walking wounded. He has no leadership or authority in the family. The ironic thing is that this may actually help THEM get over his infidelity as he defends his family.

I'd let this go. Let him deal with the nightmare his pecker got the family into without being the bold hero defending his family.

But that is just me.


----------



## BK23

Did he disclose the affair or did he give them the old "Ms. Poppop, my respected colleague at our XYZ Office seems to be having marital issues, and her husband has contacted me and accused me of having an affair with her. This is categorically untrue, and I am scared for my safety and the safety of my infant child." See how easy that was? Did you contact HR? Can you trust what your wife is telling you about what went down?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

They called her in, if true, it is serious. Don't you let this go. You need to help her keep the job. This can be the lead up to a hostile work environment claim. See where it goes and if necessary expose to HR.


----------



## tom67

phillybeffandswiss said:


> They called her in, if true, it is serious. Don't you let this go. You need to help her keep the job. This can be the lead up to a hostile work environment claim. See where it goes and if necessary expose to HR.


He is higher than her he would be the first one fired but verify first and if necessary get an attorney.


----------



## warlock07

poppoppop said:


> Wow, I've been away for a few days and didn't realize the discussion had developed into this.
> 
> Here's the latest update: We are working on R. The OM is terrified of me. He went the opposite direction. Instead of trying to avoid HR, he actually called HR and said I was a danger to him. My wife got called in to talk to someone at HR today. The OM didn't even have the decency to give my wife a heads up. She got ambushed at work. I'm fairly certain at this point that the OM is going nowhere near my wife. I'm also fairly certain that my wife is seeing the OM for what he really is: a self serving coward.



This sounds like deja-vu.. She did not stop the last time either, did she ?

Or were you mistaken about that ?


----------



## bunny23

PBear said:


> Btw, you should make an appointment to talk to a lawyer ASAP an understand your rights, responsibilities, and options. What your next steps could be, going down either path (reconciliation, divorce/separation). Protecting yourself and your children has to be a priority.
> 
> One plan I've heard suggested is finding out the "top" divorce lawyers in town, and have meetings with each of them ("top" likely determined by your budget). Once they've heard your story, they can no longer take her as a client. Not sure if this is true, but sounds reasonable.
> 
> 
> C


This is a tactic and it is TRUE.
I actually did this  My abusive hubby filed with some local joker lawyer, while I have had top 10 attorneys giving me advice and have now retained one at $0


----------



## Wazza

OP, here is a sad truth. Right now you have to assume anything your wife says may be a lie, unless you can independently verify it.

If your only source of information on the HR situation is your wife, do not trust it. They may be manoeuvring to protect themselves in some way. 

Or it could be true.

That is the horrible part of all this.....the uncertainty infidelity creates. It sucks.


----------



## Squeakr

I am not buying this. If he truly has a beef with you why hasn't he gone to the police? HR is not the police and they can't do anything to you nor protect him. He is being vengeful and taking it out on your WW if it is in fact true.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mustbecrazy

OM is trying to throw your wife under the bus. Destroy him.


----------



## BK23

Mustbecrazy said:


> OM is trying to throw your wife under the bus. Destroy him.


On the contrary, it might be good for R to let the OM completely fvck her over. A nice healthy consequence for her betrayal should help her perspective.


----------



## Squeakr

Funny, I don't see lots of the AP defender's here in this thread defending and backing this OM. Why not, if it wasn't him, it would have been someone else, right (as that is always the defense)???

Guess that only applies in certain cases, huh?????


----------



## poppoppop

JCD said:


> Okay...time for a bit of perspective here.
> 
> First off, I'm a 'usual suspect', which means that I was a wayward who went into an emotional affair. This means that I 'always make excuses for cheaters, being one myself' if you are one of the hardliners here, OR, I am a guy who understands what your wife is going through and can maybe shed some light on things that seem inexplicable to you.
> 
> So...she goes and has a kid with you. A wonderful delightful bonding moment...but now, her husband won't touch her, refuses to have sex with her, because she's a huge fat hormone drenched cow. Even a couple years afterward, he still turns away with disgust from her attentions, even after she works hard to lose that baby weight.
> 
> This same man also told her that the financial future of the entire family now rests firmly on her shoulders. Get out there honey and bring back the bacon...while I play video games with the kids at home...
> 
> No...this isn't all you were. These are the kinds of images she is filling in her head with based on current culture...just like men think being a housewife is sitting watching soap operas as they scarf bon bons. It's cultural bias and shorthand.
> 
> And I understand you had long intense conversations with the wife about all this. BUT...doubts and resentments linger.
> 
> "What did you do today honey?"
> 
> "Oh...I spent 8 hours being screamed at by four different bosses because my marketing idea was 4% points below the anticipated rate of return for the anticipated ad results. How about you?"
> 
> "Jimmy and I pasted macaroni on a piece of paper. It's on the fridge."
> 
> Yeah...
> 
> Luckily, she has the bond of sex to...strengthen...um...oh.
> 
> These are things that needed addressing a long time ago. Now, none of this 'excuses' infidelity. But I liken infidelity to the common cold: You can't get a cold from being wet and cold. BUT...being wet and cold weakens your immune system so when that virus comes around, it's far easier to succumb.
> 
> She was up to her thighs in a 40 degree swamp. She had a responsibility to walk out of the swamp. You had a responsibility to drain the swamp too. It didn't happen.
> 
> Now...being emotionally engaged like this is an addiction. When I dumped my EA, there were days where I was pining to do ANYTHING to get back in touch with her. It was like I chopped an important part of my anatomy off and I wanted it back! I had to make a conscious choice to NOT go there...and I needed to make it every day. And I have. Close to two years now, and believe me, it is harder than it looks!
> 
> So...you are correct that the wife has, at best, diffident feelings about you. She thinks of you like a roommate or brother because she isn't having sex with you. Own this! She might have put a knife deep into your back, but you didn't exactly leave her unmarked before this.
> 
> Now...you are in a cleft stick. Frankly, R was possible. Not assured, but possible. It still is. But your circumstances regarding work make it VERY DIFFICULT...because she works *and she can't quit!*
> 
> People are going on about how she loves her job more than she loves you. Huh...REALLY? How about...she doesn't want her kids, her husband or herself to starve? Oh...we can't think THAT way, because that would mean she is behaving in a rational and excusable way.
> 
> She also gets validation from work. She does a good job, she gets praised. How much validation does she get at home? She certainly feels unworthy in the bedroom.
> 
> I love my job too, and if asked to quit, it would be a rough choice if the family told me to quit. Of course, I'm a man and that's much more accepted.
> 
> You said she tried to put the marriage back on track. You didn't even notice. How is she supposed to feel about that?
> 
> So...she keeps running to the piece of crap that DOES make her feel good about herself. It's just like any other addiction. He is her bottle of white, bottle of red: certainly not good for her, but it's what little comfort she has during well...Hell. Trust me that she feels pretty damned bad about this whole thing too. You at least are the victim. She gets to be the bad guy.
> 
> She needs to go NC with the man. She needs to know where she is in the relationship. Go or don't go. Dragging this out is not helping either one of you.
> 
> I think you are being a bit hasty. Don't conflict with her. If you are raging and angry, don't talk to her.
> 
> She's wrong. Okay? SHE'S WRONG! She can fall back in love with you, and not as a plan B, but you two need to start communicating and fixing MAJOR PROBLEMS in your relationship.
> 
> So if you are divorcing because there is no hope, that is wrong. There is. But only if she ponies up. That means no more texting to that POS or any other way.
> 
> Frankly, she needs to self confess her issue to her supervisor so she is released from being sent on trips with the POS.
> 
> Now, the ticket thing...I am not sure I understand that. Is she doing it for work? Is she sending the ticket to him? Is she being reimbursed for her expenses? Is it work related? Is it not? I don't understand the entire thing.
> 
> If it's as described, it IS egregious. That gives me a great deal of concern.
> 
> It is your decision to make. I hope I've brought a little light to the thing farther than her just as a natural cheater. She sounds conflicted and confused. Of course she is. She loves two people. One doesn't want her sexually and the other is a lying married serial cheater. Quite the choice she has...


So last night, I sat down with my wife and had a little talk. I actually forwarded her JCD's post. When I first read it, I thought it was a little harsh and I didn't quite get it. 

After sharing this with my wife, she was defensive at first. I told her the post was not very popular, and she replied, "Of course not...it's the cheater's perspective and everyone who cheats is just the bad guy." I told her, yes, cheating was not ok. Not in any circumstance, but JCD's post actually made me realize she had been out of it for years, not months, but she held on to hope things would get better as long as she could. The affair was long after her breaking point. 

I think the HR incident yesterday made things a little bit easier for her to see the OM for what he is and that's why I chose now to share JCD's post with her. Also, I think at the time JCD posted it, I wasn't ready to hear any of her perspective. We're not rushing into R just yet...we still need time, but it was a small step forward.


----------



## poppoppop

Squeakr said:


> Funny, I don't see lots of the AP defender's here in this thread defending and backing this OM. Why not, if it wasn't him, it would have been someone else, right (as that is always the defense)???
> 
> Guess that only applies in certain cases, huh?????


I think if you see what the OM has done here, there's no room to really defend him. He pursued her daily for 3 months. He lied about his kids, his wife, his circumstances. He's cheated on his wife a few times already. He lied to my wife, his wife, and me. Then when I confronted him, not only did he not offer an apology, he threatens me, then follows up by calling HR and reports me without even giving my wife a heads up, so she gets ambushed. 

He hasn't shown himself to be worthy of defense once. Yes, it would have been someone else, but this particular guy has no honor.


----------



## poppoppop

Squeakr said:


> I am not buying this. If he truly has a beef with you why hasn't he gone to the police? HR is not the police and they can't do anything to you nor protect him. He is being vengeful and taking it out on your WW if it is in fact true.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I had the exact same thought. Why not file a restraining order against me? Because he doesn't care about me. His primary concern is money. He doesn't want to lose his job. He knows that I have all his info including his phone numbers and address, yet his fear is not the safety of his family...he only cares he doesn't get fired. 

I don't think he's being vengeful to my wife...that would mean she affected him somehow. He didn't even bother to tell her he contacted HR.

By the way, when my wife first got the notice that HR wanted to talk to her, she wasn't sure if it was about this or not. Instead of just contacting him right away, she actually called me to ask me permission to talk to him. She said she wanted to find out if it had something to do with the affair and my contacting the OM before she walked in. I said ok and she promised not to talk about anything but the HR incident.


----------



## Squeakr

poppoppop said:


> I think if you see what the OM has done here, there's no room to really defend him. He pursued her daily for 3 months. He lied about his kids, his wife, his circumstances. He's cheated on his wife a few times already. He lied to my wife, his wife, and me. Then when I confronted him, not only did he not offer an apology, he threatens me, then follows up by calling HR and reports me without even giving my wife a heads up, so she gets ambushed.
> 
> He hasn't shown himself to be worthy of defense once. Yes, it would have been someone else, but this particular guy has no honor.



I agree and I guessed you missed the sarcasm being hinted at, as your situation is no different than others on here. Despite all the wrong the AP does, some posters feel the need to defend the POSOM(W) with statements such as "let it go, if it wasn't him/ her, then it would be someone else", "the OM/W isn't the problem, it is your WS and you need to focus your anger and punishments on the WS". In most of the cases the AP has the same background your's has a family, cheating history, lying to cover it up, and not owning up to the A and admitting responsibility, while throwing the WS out to the wolves. I was just pointing out that I find it odd that they haven't come in here to drop those bits of wisdom on you.

Glad things are getting "better" for you and I wish you luck.


I still feel that a special sarcasm font is warranted for cases such as this..


----------



## Squeakr

poppoppop said:


> I don't think he's being vengeful to my wife...that would mean she affected him somehow. He didn't even bother to tell her he contacted HR.
> 
> By the way, when my wife first got the notice that HR wanted to talk to her, she wasn't sure if it was about this or not. Instead of just contacting him right away, she actually called me to ask me permission to talk to him. She said she wanted to find out if it had something to do with the affair and my contacting the OM before she walked in. I said ok and she promised not to talk about anything but the HR incident.


 His not contacting her first, just shows that he cared little for her and that he was getting back at her for screwing up his life. Sorry but that is vengeful. IF he was really caring about her he would have talked to her first and given fair warning, but what he did is spiteful and vengeful to get the upper hand.

I am glad she called you first, but the question I would have is what she did before calling you. My wife contacted me first when the POSOM tried contacting her through text. After talking to her it came out that she actually drafted a full response, was about to hit send. and then decided against it. Deleted the response and an hour later (the first chance she had to call me) contacted me. She thinks she did good by talking to me, but fails to see that her typing out a response, thinking about sending it, and then deleting it so I wouldn't know what it said undermines the whole idea. Then the icing on the cake is that she said an hour later she contacted me. She said it was the first opportunity she had to contact (I pointed out she had typed a response, pondered sending it, and then made the decision to delete it. She could have spent that time to contact me, either through text or call, but it took an hour for that to happen and she had talked to several others in that time frame. Shows where I rank on the totem pole.). Things aren't always as clear cut and innocent as they seem.


----------



## poppoppop

Squeakr said:


> His not contacting her first, just shows that he cared little for her and that he was getting back at her for screwing up his life. Sorry but that is vengeful. IF he was really caring about her he would have talked to her first and given fair warning, but what he did is spiteful and vengeful to get the upper hand.
> 
> I am glad she called you first, but the question I would have is what she did before calling you. My wife contacted me first when the POSOM tried contacting her through text. After talking to her it came out that she actually drafted a full response, was about to hit send. and then decided against it. Deleted the response and an hour later (the first chance she had to call me) contacted me. She thinks she did good by talking to me, but fails to see that her typing out a response, thinking about sending it, and then deleting it so I wouldn't know what it said undermines the whole idea. Then the icing on the cake is that she said an hour later she contacted me. She said it was the first opportunity she had to contact (I pointed out she had typed a response, pondered sending it, and then made the decision to delete it. She could have spent that time to contact me, either through text or call, but it took an hour for that to happen and she had talked to several others in that time frame. Shows where I rank on the totem pole.). Things aren't always as clear cut and innocent as they seem.


Sorry I missed the sarcasm. Darn internet. 

Thanks for your response. I know where I stand with her. I'm nowhere near her first priority still. But we are making small steps. From where we were a few weeks ago, I would have been fine if she said she already contacted him and thought I should know.


----------



## Squeakr

poppoppop said:


> Sorry I missed the sarcasm. Darn internet.
> 
> Thanks for your response. I know where I stand with her. I'm nowhere near her first priority still. But we are making small steps. From where we were a few weeks ago, I would have been fine if she said she already contacted him and thought I should know.


 Would you be fine if you found out that the truth is she had actually contacted him first? It is the lies that hurt the most, sometimes more than the actions. What if she contacted him, found out what the HR meeting was about and knew she couldn't hide all of it from you, so she then contacted you acting like she was asking your permission and worried about the situation, when in actuality she already knew the score? Would this change you views or thoughts? Sorry but sometimes my mind works in devious ways.


----------



## happyman64

poppoppop said:


> Sorry I missed the sarcasm. Darn internet.
> 
> Thanks for your response. I know where I stand with her. I'm nowhere near her first priority still. But we are making small steps. From where we were a few weeks ago, I would have been fine if she said she already contacted him and thought I should know.


You know POpPOp she did not have to tell you but she chose to tell you.

That is a positive step forward.

And I agree she is starting to realize the OM is a piece of crap.
Wait till she realizes just how badly she was used.......

One step at a time.

HM


----------



## JCD

happyman64 said:


> You know POpPOp she did not have to tell you but she chose to tell you.
> 
> That is a positive step forward.
> 
> And I agree she is starting to realize the OM is a piece of crap.
> Wait till she realizes just how badly she was used.......
> 
> One step at a time.
> 
> HM


Yeah. Reconnecting emotionally and sexually will take MONTHS. Seriously. That seems like a long time, but it's just a string of days put together that you deal with one at a time.

So best of luck. Both of you will need to practice patience.


----------



## warlock07

You still have his half naked pictures?(without the wife)


----------



## poppoppop

warlock07 said:


> You still have his half naked pictures?(without the wife)


There were no naked pictures of my wife. There's no way she'd let anyone take a picture of her naked, even partially. Like I mentioned, she's hyper critical of her body.

And YES, I have his half naked pictures.


----------



## Squeakr

poppoppop said:


> There were no naked pictures of my wife. There's no way she'd let anyone take a picture of her naked, even partially. Like I mentioned, she's hyper critical of her body.
> 
> And YES, I have his half naked pictures.



Don't doubt it. My wife is the same way, yet she took the pics herself and sent them to them. She even let them do things to her and did things to them that after being together 19 years and married almost 15, I still don't get to enjoy. Never underestimate the extent a cheater will go to. Mine claimed she never did the pics and then I saw the emails from them thanking her for them and describing things that only the pics would have shown. Can we say busted? She still claimed there were none from her even after seeing the emails. Now she claims that there were some, a year later but can't clearly remember what they were. Yeah like I am believing that story again.


----------



## warlock07

Ok, I think the HR department will find out who is harassing who with there pictures.

Maybe you better confirm with the wife that she dd not send him any nuddes


----------



## Wazza

Squeakr said:


> I agree and I guessed you missed the sarcasm being hinted at, as your situation is no different than others on here. Despite all the wrong the AP does, some posters feel the need to defend the POSOM(W) with statements such as "let it go, if it wasn't him/ her, then it would be someone else", "the OM/W isn't the problem, it is your WS and you need to focus your anger and punishments on the WS". In most of the cases the AP has the same background your's has a family, cheating history, lying to cover it up, and not owning up to the A and admitting responsibility, while throwing the WS out to the wolves. I was just pointing out that I find it odd that they haven't come in here to drop those bits of wisdom on you.
> 
> Glad things are getting "better" for you and I wish you luck.
> 
> 
> I still feel that a special sarcasm font is warranted for cases such as this..


OK, that makes sense, I was wondering. I never saw that as a defence of the AP, just a reminder not to blame everything on the AP and absolve your spouse.


----------



## Wazza

warlock07 said:


> Ok, I think the HR department will find out who is harassing who with there pictures.
> 
> Maybe you better confirm with the wife that she dd not send him any nuddes


Agree and be specific. 

You will probably find she has done things that you could not conceive of her doing. Happened in my wife's affair, and in many other stories I read on her.

Not trying to be negative, just trying to prepare you for what you might find, so you can deal with it as you wish.


----------



## just got it 55

poppoppop Hay Bud How about an update


----------



## LongWalk

Popx3, How are you doing? You are not forgotten on TAM


----------



## poppoppop

Hey everyone...so nice of you guys to ask for an update. Sorry I've been so silent for such a long time. 

I'm doing great. The job hunt is still on. I'm networking and sending out resumes daily. My wife had a meeting at her office last week and her AP was there. She was calling/texting me constantly just to reassure me nothing was happening. She said they avoided each other all week and it was awkward. I told her if she needs to, go talk to him and clear the air. She ended up talking to him and they agreed to steer clear of each other. 

I ended up deciding on divorce as the best option anyway because she doesn't have romantic feelings towards me. She again asked that we try counseling first. We have yet to find a marriage counselor, so we have yet to go. In the meantime, I've been going out with friends often and just having a good time. I'm meeting a lot of girls. I'm at the point that I'm realizing it will never be what it once was, so I'm trying to figure out if it's better for me to start over or if it's worth it to work things out. I still go back and forth minute by minute. I'm also concerned that we are falling into old patterns. She is in constant contact with me throughout the day and night. I just don't think that's conducive to romantic feelings. I'm torn between cutting her off and staying in contact. Familiarity breeds contempt, right? I'm not sure what is the best course.

We are having a birthday party for my daughter this weekend. It will be the first time she sees some of my friends and family since her affair was exposed. I've been doing some damage control to let people know that they are not to confront her at the party because I don't want people blowing up at her and ruining the birthday party. It feels a little like I'm helping her cover up her affair though.


----------



## weightlifter

Uh feels like covering. but it isnt

1) Your daughter > uber alles
2) If they want to do it let them. At any other time than the party.


----------



## azteca1986

poppoppop said:


> It feels a little like I'm helping her cover up her affair though.


No. There's a time and a place for everything. 

Hope your daughter has a great day!


----------



## poppoppop

Exactly. I've been telling everyone that if they want to do that, they've got to pick another time and do it privately. My dad already agreed to do that, but once he saw her, he blew up on her in front of the kids. I had to tell him to stop, but he was so angry he wouldn't stop. I'm afraid that will happen again, so I've spent a lot of time calling people and letting them know it's not appropriate at the party. I'm also having my friend come to the party, just to act as a mediator in case someone gets mad.


----------



## turnera

pop, you're in no hurry. No need to make any decisions right now. Focus on your current needs.


----------



## warlock07

> I ended up deciding on divorce as the best option anyway because she doesn't have romantic feelings towards me. She again asked that we try counseling first.


You should have refused. Let her plead a lot for you to take a stab at R. Your time for fixing the marriage is in the past. Now it is on her to do something. 




> She is in constant contact with me throughout the day and night. I just don't think that's conducive to romantic feelings. I'm torn between cutting her off and staying in contact.


Keep contact minimum and short. End talk if it is not related to the marriage. This is not a game or a plan to win her back.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

poppoppop said:


> It feels a little like I'm helping her cover up her affair though.


Nope. If they want to confront, they do it on their own time not your daughter's. That's all about protecting you daughter's happiness not covering for an affair.


----------



## weightlifter

How goes the battle Pop?


----------



## poppoppop

weightlifter said:


> How goes the battle Pop?


Hey wler,

Its going. Not much to report. The wife is at the conference her and the Om first started flirting at a year ago. This is the one that is in Phoenix. She's calling and texting me often to let me know what's up. My daughter got an iPad for her birthday, so she is facetiming with my wife often. I'm guessing no funny business is going on, but she's a liar so who knows. But I'm finding out thst the question might be who cares? In the meantime, I've been talking to a few girls I've met and getting hit on. I went to a party a few weekends ago and the friend who invited me asked me to go to another party this weekend, but I can't make it because I'm having surgery on Friday. He said I should go because some people were asking about me. My wife is coming on Friday to help take care of me and the kids while I recover. 

At this point, with other females giving me attention, I'm less inclined to go back to my cheater wife. I also got a job interview for a job I would love to get. That is also making me less inclined to take my wife back. She still wants to go to counseling but we have yet to find one who works for our schedules. I've been working out like crazy to get my mind off the situation and I'm in the best shape of my life. Feeling good about myself and my prospects.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## weightlifter

poppoppop said:


> Hey wler,
> 
> Its going. Not much to report. The wife is at the conference her and the Om first started flirting at a year ago. This is the one that is in Phoenix. She's calling and texting me often to let me know what's up. My daughter got an iPad for her birthday, so she is facetiming with my wife often. I'm guessing no funny business is going on, but she's a liar so who knows. But I'm finding out thst the question might be who cares? In the meantime, I've been talking to a few girls I've met and getting hit on. I went to a party a few weekends ago and the friend who invited me asked me to go to another party this weekend, but I can't make it because I'm having surgery on Friday. He said I should go because some people were asking about me. My wife is coming on Friday to help take care of me and the kids while I recover.
> 
> At this point, with other females giving me attention, I'm less inclined to go back to my cheater wife. I also got a job interview for a job I would love to get. That is also making me less inclined to take my wife back. She still wants to go to counseling but we have yet to find one who works for our schedules. I've been working out like crazy to get my mind off the situation and I'm in the best shape of my life. Feeling good about myself and my prospects.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I LOVE posts like this. (OK I love the ones saying (after filing D of course) "I JUST GOT SOME and I feel like a new man" better but still. Recovery started. Its a long uphill climb.


----------



## now_awake

poppoppop said:


> Exactly. I've been telling everyone that if they want to do that, they've got to pick another time and do it privately. My dad already agreed to do that, but once he saw her, he blew up on her in front of the kids. I had to tell him to stop, but he was so angry he wouldn't stop. I'm afraid that will happen again, so I've spent a lot of time calling people and letting them know it's not appropriate at the party. I'm also having my friend come to the party, just to act as a mediator in case someone gets mad.


That is bad, in front of the kids and all. But it's nice that you have support. My parents treat WH better now, like they're afraid to do anything or support me in any way.


----------



## Doyle

Great post pops really given me a lift.

All the best mate.


----------



## poppoppop

Update: this morning my wife called me to warn me that the other man's wife might be contacting me. She said they have been texting but its just to end things. I told her I didn't believe her and that she promised absolute transparency. She said she didn't tell me because she was trying to protect me. AGAIN, what a martyr! 

I told her no the only reason you are telling me now is that you guys it caught again. I asked her if he said he still loves her and wants to be with her. She admitted that he did. I asked her if she wants to be with him. She admitted that she thought maybe someday they could be together. I told her from now on, unless its about our divorce or a concern with the kids, do not contact me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sandc

Well done. Now don't let her rope you into a conversation about anything other than kids or divorce. She'll try. Be ready to end the conversation.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

You're not surprised are you?...

I know I'm not. She figured out of sight out of mind, but the OM's wife wasn't going to sit idly by. Kudos to her.

I'd get as much info from OM's wife as I could. I know you're going to D now, but if your stbxw starts trying to put her spin on the business trip contact with the OM, you can shoot her lies down.

It sucks, but better to find out sooner than later.


----------



## bandit.45

Sorry it has come to this Pop. But you have a good attitude and I guarantee down the road, after the dust settles you will be in far better shape than she will.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Wazza

Hang in there. Hopefully such blatant continuation gives you closure.


----------



## happyman64

I hope the OM's wife does call you.

Then see if you two can work together to leave your Wayward Spouses in hell. 

Together.

Where they belong.

Scratching their heads wondering just what happened to their lives.

They deserve it.

HM


----------



## happyman64

> She said she is only thinking about me as a possibility now and the next person she will be dating is me unless I tell her I've moved on.


This was in one of your posts from the end of august.

She has a funny way of ending things. Cheaters always do.

Have you told her yet that you are moving on???

HM


----------



## Dyokemm

OP,

Hate to say it, but this is what happens when you don't bury the POS in every way possible, ESPECIALLY at work if you can.

He has just continued to offer one insult after another to you.

If you had completely and utterly demolished this POS and his life in every way he would be running from your WW and the continuous F'ing with your family as fast as possible.

Go nuclear on this s**tbag finally and demonstrate to him in no uncertain terms that he screwed with the wrong man's family.


----------



## warlock07

poppoppop said:


> Update: this morning my wife called me to warn me that the other man's wife might be contacting me. She said they have been texting but its just to end things. I told her I didn't believe her and that she promised absolute transparency. She said she didn't tell me because she was trying to protect me. AGAIN, what a martyr!
> 
> I told her no the only reason you are telling me now is that you guys it caught again. I asked her if he said he still loves her and wants to be with her. She admitted that he did. I asked her if she wants to be with him. She admitted that she thought maybe someday they could be together. I told her from now on, unless its about our divorce or a concern with the kids, do not contact me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She is so full of sh!t!! Right from the fake remorse thing!! 

The whole opposite of love is indifference not hate proved entirely right in your case...


----------



## Wazza

Dyokemm said:


> OP,
> 
> Hate to say it, but this is what happens when you don't bury the POS in every way possible, ESPECIALLY at work if you can.
> 
> He has just continued to offer one insult after another to you.
> 
> If you had completely and utterly demolished this POS and his life in every way he would be running from your WW and the continuous F'ing with your family as fast as possible.
> 
> Go nuclear on this s**tbag finally and demonstrate to him in no uncertain terms that he screwed with the wrong man's family.


The wife was more or less an equal partner in this. Who knows, maybe she was the aggressor.

She was caught out and attempted to continue the affair. She admitted to contemplating a future with OM. What will it achieve to beat him up? Will she suddenly become honourable?

One person can't make a marriage. Better to recognise the sad reality and make your decisions accordingly, rather than continuing a futile struggle.


----------



## LongWalk

Hello Pop,

How are you doing? We haven't forgotten you.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## poppoppop

Latest update: so we are basically at square one from when I found out about the affair. After yelling at her this morning and deciding on divorce, we sat down once the kids were asleep and had a talk. I said if I'm not choice #1, I'm not an option at all. She admitted again that she wants to be with the OM. I told her to go ahead and I will be on constant vigil to make sure she never lets it get in the way of her being with the children. 

I later checked email and found the OM wife had contacted me. She asked if we could talk on the phone. Will update once we talk. I also got a job interview tomorrow, so wish me luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Wazza

poppoppop said:


> She admitted again that she wants to be with the OM. I told her to go ahead and I will be on constant vigil to make sure she never lets it get in the way of her being with the children.


Not sure I understand this. What are you thinking? You guys living together and she has an affair? Or separated, in which case you have no control....

Enlighten us please, and sorry if I am being obtuse.


----------



## MrHappyHat

Good luck on your interview!

Let go. Be the best father to your children. Protect yourself.


----------



## Shaggy

I would spend a lot of tine talking to the OW. She should be your best new friend.


----------



## missthelove2013

poppoppop said:


> I think if you see what the OM has done here, there's no room to really defend him. He pursued her daily for 3 months. He lied about his kids, his wife, his circumstances. He's cheated on his wife a few times already. He lied to my wife, his wife, and me. Then when I confronted him, not only did he not offer an apology, he threatens me, then follows up by calling HR and reports me without even giving my wife a heads up, so she gets ambushed.
> 
> He hasn't shown himself to be worthy of defense once. Yes, it would have been someone else, but this particular guy has no honor.


the OM did not betray you, your wife did,,,he is just the penis she chose...if he hadnt come along, another probably would have if she is in That place to cheat...


----------



## Dyokemm

Wazza,

Of course the WS is at least half of the issue in an A, maybe more so if they are the aggressor in keeping it alive (as MAY be the case here).

But that in no way excuses this POS for continuing to F with OM's family's life. He DOES NOT get a free pass just because the scummy WW is pursuing the A too.

OP needs to kick his disgusting WW to the curb hard and ASAP, and then completely destroy this a**hole for helping to screw up his kid's family life, not just once but over and over because OP never made the price too great for him to continue.

And I was not referring to 'beating' the POS up physically (though I would NEVER have a problem with that in principle as long as he knew the woman was married), but was rather referring to the fact that OP could have, and should have, destroyed this scumbag's career for his actions.


----------



## manfromlamancha

I have been following your thread from the start and am sorry that you are here. Just to clarify, the last I knew you guys were in R but now it seems that you are not. I didn't fully understand your last few posts. Am I to understand that they went at it again and got caught again ? If so, how did they get caught and by who ? Is she now out of the house ? Are you going ahead with D but allowing her to have access to the kids ?

It seems that she now says what she said at the very start that she is in love with him - have I understood this correct ? Also you said some posts ago that all he cared about was his finances and not losing his job - now it appears that he has said that he loves her and wants to be with her - is he leaving his wife ? And finally, were there no repercussions of any kind at work ?


----------



## Wazza

Dyokemm said:


> Wazza,
> 
> Of course the WS is at least half of the issue in an A, maybe more so if they are the aggressor in keeping it alive (as MAY be the case here).
> 
> But that in no way excuses this POS for continuing to F with OM's family's life. He DOES NOT get a free pass just because the scummy WW is pursuing the A too.
> 
> OP needs to kick his disgusting WW to the curb hard and ASAP, and then completely destroy this a**hole for helping to screw up his kid's family life, not just once but over and over because OP never made the price too great for him to continue.
> 
> And I was not referring to 'beating' the POS up physically (though I would NEVER have a problem with that in principle as long as he knew the woman was married), but was rather referring to the fact that OP could have, and should have, destroyed this scumbag's career for his actions.


Hi, I didn't think you meant beat up physically....

I dunno that destroying the career is even possible, but my real point is that I see no point to this rage. It won't fix anything, and it might create more problems. Two edged sword.

She's unfaithful, she's gone. OP is moving on. Correctly in my view.

Opinions vary, lots of guys feel as you do but I don't.


----------



## 3putt

missthelove2013 said:


> the OM did not betray you, your wife did,,,he is just the penis she chose...if he hadnt come along, another probably would have if she is in That place to cheat...


I disagree, and personally, I would fvck this guy up in ways he wouldn't forget until he died.


----------



## sandc

3putt said:


> I disagree, and personally, I would fvck this guy up in ways he wouldn't forget until he died.


:iagree:

I know he didn't take any vows with you, it was all on your wife. But this guy helped. Sure if it wasn't him it would be someone else. But it WAS him. That was HIS choice. He needs to face some consequences for breaking up a family. IMO.


----------



## missthelove2013

sandc said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I know he didn't take any vows with you, it was all on your wife. But this guy helped. Sure if it wasn't him it would be someone else. But it WAS him. That was HIS choice. He needs to face some consequences for breaking up a family. IMO.


consequences???
definitely...expose him, especially if HE/SHE is married...

but are we talking assault, prison time, law suits??? the om/ow aint worth becoming a felon...


----------



## Tobyboy

3putt said:


> I disagree, and personally, I would fvck this guy up in ways he wouldn't forget until he died.


Like *doing* the POS wife in his own home? That would be brutal! Just saying.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 3putt

missthelove2013 said:


> consequences???
> definitely...expose him, especially if HE/SHE is married...
> 
> but are we talking assault, prison time, law suits??? the om/ow aint worth becoming a felon...


I never said anything about physical violence, although it's not beneath me.

Sorry, if another man plays a part in the demise of my marriage and family he _will_ answer for it.


----------



## sandc

missthelove2013 said:


> consequences???
> definitely...expose him, especially if HE/SHE is married...
> 
> but are we talking assault, prison time, law suits??? the om/ow aint worth becoming a felon...


I didn't mean physically. I mean emotionally, work-wise, etc. Out him for who he is.


----------



## LongWalk

poppoppop said:


> Latest update: so we are basically at square one from when I found out about the affair. After yelling at her this morning and deciding on divorce, we sat down once the kids were asleep and had a talk. I said if I'm not choice #1, I'm not an option at all. She admitted again that she wants to be with the OM. I told her to go ahead and I will be on constant vigil to make sure she never lets it get in the way of her being with the children.
> 
> I later checked email and found the OM wife had contacted me. She asked if we could talk on the phone. Will update once we talk. I also got a job interview tomorrow, so wish me luck.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Umm... OM lives in Florida. You live California, right? How is your wife going to be with him and be mother to your children?


----------



## happyman64

LongWalk said:


> Umm... OM lives in Florida. You live California, right? How is your wife going to be with him and be mother to your children?


She is going to ride on her magic carpet and fly to Affair Make Believe LaLa land.....

Or maybe she just uses a broomstick.


----------



## poppoppop

So I talked to the Omw. Boy oh boy. Is my wife in for a surprise. The Om tattooed his wife's name on his chest. He tattooed a ring on his finger. He only started calling my wife again when his wife and him got in a big fight. My wife thinks he just couldnt be away from her. He is using her as a back up and if she falls for it...she will have to deal with it. Not my problem. 

I refused to be a consolation prize. Well now my wife is one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

Can you get the omw to send you a pic of the tat?


----------



## bandit.45

Whoa! Your WW is in for a huge meltdown.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

Get the tat pic and post it on her bathroom mirror.


----------



## bandit.45

JustPuzzled said:


> In this sad story I suddenly see the possibility of a glimmer of humour.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh man it's gonna be a good one. Tell us when she finds out Pop. I'll make the popcorn and we'll all watch the trainwreck together.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

Cheaterville

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## warlock07

poppoppop said:


> So I talked to the Omw. Boy oh boy. Is my wife in for a surprise. The Om tattooed his wife's name on his chest. He tattooed a ring on his finger. He only started calling my wife again when his wife and him got in a big fight. My wife thinks he just couldnt be away from her. He is using her as a back up and if she falls for it...she will have to deal with it. Not my problem.
> 
> I refused to be a consolation prize. Well now my wife is one.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Please don't enlighten her to the ways of the OM like you did the last time. She will confuse feeling s rejection with love towards you.


----------



## jessi

pop,

as this unfolds you will see how much of a fantasy people in affairs create for themselves how deluded they can be, sad really.
your wife is going to be in for a shock and a reality check, when it hits her he used her and she isn't the prize after all she will hit bottom.
When it all falls apart for her be her safe place to land show her the qualities in you that she can't not notice. the contrast effect between the two of you will be undeniable.
let it all play out let her try to make sense out something so illogical.
when she gets her brain back she will be embarrassed and humiliated he used her and she allowed it......
sit back right now and be still and let the backlash of her affair and the exposure take it's course......
patience is the hardest part at this stage it is difficult watching your spouse be so stupid but all you can do is watch the discovery of what the truth really is for them and how foolish they have been.
You aren't second choice you are the only choice, when the fog lifts she will understand that better than you do............
hang in there pop


----------



## jack.c

jessi said:


> pop,
> 
> as this unfolds you will see how much of a fantasy people in affairs create for themselves how deluded they can be, sad really.
> your wife is going to be in for a shock and a reality check, when it hits her he used her and she isn't the prize after all she will hit bottom.
> When it all falls apart for her be her safe place to land show her the qualities in you that she can't not notice. the contrast effect between the two of you will be undeniable.
> let it all play out let her try to make sense out something so illogical.
> when she gets her brain back she will be embarrassed and humiliated he used her and she allowed it......
> sit back right now and be still and let the backlash of her affair and the exposure take it's course......
> patience is the hardest part at this stage it is difficult watching your spouse be so stupid but all you can do is watch the discovery of what the truth really is for them and how foolish they have been.
> You aren't second choice you are the only choice, when the fog lifts she will understand that better than you do............
> hang in there pop


Honestly..... I wont make her land in a safe place at all!
This kind of behaver needs to be punished badly. It's the only way a ws will ever come back to reality! They need to hit hard in order to lighting up! 
sorry but nobody needs to put up with shxt like this.


----------



## jessi

hey Jackc

I agree that is why I said let it happen, the exposure the realization all of it let her feel the pain she has caused everyone and the pain she is going to feel as a wayward......you have to remember Jack it is like an addiction they are attatched to, she isn't pop's wife right now she is in affair mode thinking like a fool, that is going to change when the s**t hits the fan so to speak.
If pop wants to recover his marriage as she comes out of the fog if he is there just being present will show her he didn't bail on her like she bailed on him........
If he doesn't want to try to recover then he let's her fall on her own with her consequences....
believe me she is already living with the reality now...she is the consulation prize if her OM's wife kicks him out......
if she doesn't she is just the ***** that tried to ruin their marriage.
as I watched my husband go through reality it seemed to me that home was his only calm in the middle of his storm, I just kept my distance and watched it create destruction in his life.........
I believe in justice and just compensation for affairs and that will happen pop just isn't there yet......
didn't mean to imply affairs shouldn't have some pay back


----------



## MrHappyHat

Shaggy said:


> Get the tat pic and post it on her bathroom mirror.


Get a pic of the tat and then have a talented friend recreate it on your chest with a marker. Then walk around the house with your shirt off.

Wait. What? Too evil?


----------



## jack.c

jessi said:


> hey Jackc
> 
> If pop wants to recover his marriage as she comes out of the fog if he is there just being present will show her he didn't bail on her like she bailed on him........
> If he doesn't want to try to recover then he let's her fall on her own with her consequences....
> believe me she is already living with the reality now...she is the consulation prize if her OM's wife kicks him out......
> if she doesn't she is just the ***** that tried to ruin their marriage.
> as I watched my husband go through reality it seemed to me that home was his only calm in the middle of his storm, I just kept my distance and watched it create destruction in his life.........
> I believe in justice and just compensation for affairs and that will happen pop just isn't there yet......
> didn't mean to imply affairs shouldn't have some pay back



:iagree:
Makes sence.


----------



## poppoppop

happyman64 said:


> This was in one of your posts from the end of august.
> 
> She has a funny way of ending things. Cheaters always do.
> 
> Have you told her yet that you are moving on???
> HM


I have! I told her I would give it a chance at first because when she saw the divorce forms she freaked out and begged me to go to counseling with her. We would have gone to session 1 in two days from now, but she broke the no contact rule (they work together so they still bhad work contact but it was supposed to be nothing personal) and more importantly the 100% transparency rule. She tried to explain she was trying to brush him off according to her but she should have told me he was contacting her. The continued hiding broke that trust. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. She thought by telling me it would keep me from getting angry, but it was game over for me from that point. So yes, I'm done with being choice 2 when other girls are attempting to make me choice 1. She wants to be choice 2, she is free to go ahead.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## poppoppop

By the way, I appreciate all the replies and I just don't want her anymore. I would have loved to give my kids a home with both parents and show them relationships need to be worked on to work, but I can't do that with someone who keeps lying and making the kids a lesser priority. I won't be a doormat and make my son think he should allow someone to do that to him. I need to lead by example. A line was crossed and I won't stand by and make him think its ok.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

Good for you PopPop.

I also believe some WS's need to lose their marriages and families before they ever realize what they had.

It is sad when they are that selfish but maybe your WS will wakeup, be less selfish and be a better parent.

Because she is certainly not being a good parent or wife.

Go find better my man.

HM


----------



## poppoppop

happyman64 said:


> Good for you PopPop.
> 
> I also believe some WS's need to lose their marriages and families before they ever realize what they had.
> 
> It is sad when they are that selfish but maybe your WS will wakeup, be less selfish and be a better parent.
> 
> Because she is certainly not being a good parent or wife.
> 
> Go find better my man.
> 
> HM


Its funny, yesterday she told me to bring the kids to her work next week to attend their halloween party. I didn't reply at first but it dawned on me...you want them there, you leave work early and come pick them up. Why would I drive 2 hours round trip so she doesnt have to take time off? Oh, so she can dedicate that time to flying to Florida? F off! I told her I'm not ever going to the place you go to cheat. She was confused by my response.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## azteca1986

poppoppop said:


> *Why would I drive 2 hours round trip *so she doesnt have to take time off? Oh, so she can dedicate that time to flying to Florida? F off! I told her I'm not ever going to the place you go to cheat. She was confused by my response.


She's forgotten that she fired you from the position of 'Husband'.


----------



## Doyle

Pops your rockin mate

Shes forgotten what its like when you start to call the shots.

Keep it up.


----------



## happyman64

poppoppop said:


> Its funny, yesterday she told me to bring the kids to her work next week to attend their halloween party. I didn't reply at first but it dawned on me...you want them there, you leave work early and come pick them up. Why would I drive 2 hours round trip so she doesnt have to take time off? Oh, so she can dedicate that time to flying to Florida? F off! I told her I'm not ever going to the place you go to cheat. She was confused by my response.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sadly she is wanting the kids at the Halloween party so that looks like Mother of the Year and probably to assuage her guilt...

Do not give her the satisfaction.

HM


----------



## Pufferfish

Hey Pop, 

I'm new to this site and I just finished reading your thread from start to this point. As a guy myself, it's harrowing reading. I don't envy your position and I have to say that you have endured the unendurable. It seems to me that you have fought tooth and nail and gone above and beyond to try and save your marriage. But from the continued deceit and outright admission that she wants to be with the other man, she's just gone. She might realize one day that she made a mistake, but that day is not today or any day soon. I'll just say it because nobody else has - It's time to let go buddy.


----------



## poppoppop

Pufferfish said:


> Hey Pop,
> 
> I'm new to this site and I just finished reading your thread from start to this point. As a guy myself, it's harrowing reading. I don't envy your position and I have to say that you have endured the unendurable. It seems to me that you have fought tooth and nail and gone above and beyond to try and save your marriage. But from the continued deceit and outright admission that she wants to be with the other man, she's just gone. She might realize one day that she made a mistake, but that day is not today or any day soon. I'll just say it because nobody else has - It's time to let go buddy.


Wow...that's a lot to read! I've come to that same conclusion. Its definitely time to move on. I spent the better part of the day trying to convince the OmW of the same thing. She called me multiple times today and although I want to be done with it, I'm finding it helped me greatly to also let her know she's too good for this garbage. My focus is now solely on preserving the life my children are accustomed to and leading them to understanding relationships like this intolerable. I just want them to know they shouldn't behave this way and shouldn't ever allow someone else to do the same.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattMatt

happyman64 said:


> Sadly she is wanting the kids at the Halloween party so that looks like Mother of the Year and probably to assuage her guilt...
> 
> Do not give her the satisfaction.
> 
> HM


PopPop, really? She wants to take your children to the place where she meets with her POSOM every day?:scratchhead:

Ummm... How about: "No way that's happening, ex-wife to be! I don't want my children being there, let alone associating with your POSOM! I am taking the children elsewhere on the day of the party!"


----------



## aug

poppoppop said:


> Wow...that's a lot to read! I've come to that same conclusion. Its definitely time to move on. I spent the better part of the day trying to convince the OmW of the same thing. She called me multiple times today and although I want to be done with it, I'm finding it helped me greatly to also let her know she's too good for this garbage. * My focus is now solely on preserving the life my children are accustomed to and leading them to understanding relationships like this intolerable. I just want them to know they shouldn't behave this way and shouldn't ever allow someone else to do the same.*


And the best way for them to learn is leading by example (which I think you're doing). So, when they are older and under similar stressful situation, they will think of you and the lesson you convey to them.


----------



## LongWalk

Right now Rosie's thread has attracted a great following. She is a very intelligent and charismatic BW. She has been very tough on her WH. I would guess that most posters are hoping for a happy reconciliation. I can see it happening. Her husband shagged a colleague three times and quit the affair before Dday.

It is easier for a remorseful husband who loves his wife to fix things than a cheating wife who has no feelings . Without love reconciliation has no vitality. 

Pop, did you ever have sex after Dday?

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Yeah, go read it, even the arguments. It's interesting to see a wayward, panic, blame shift and then actually start doing the right thing all in the space of a few days. Basically, almost all of it he did without any prodding from his wife. 

It's one of those you wish you saw more of on TAM.


----------



## poppoppop

LongWalk said:


> Right now Rosie's thread has attracted a great following. She is a very intelligent and charismatic BW. She has been very tough on her WH. I would guess that most posters are hoping for a happy reconciliation. I can see it happening. Her husband shagged a colleague three times and quit the affair before Dday.
> 
> It is easier for a remorseful husband who loves his wife to fix things than a cheating wife who has no feelings . Without love reconciliation has no vitality.
> 
> Pop, did you ever have sex after Dday?
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


Hell no! There's no way I would without her getting a check up. She planned on getting one in November, but we weren't anywhere near that point.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GuyStuckInLimbo

Pop, I feel for you. Your thread and the way you handled things is very admirable and inspiring. I just found out about my wife's affair yesterday. Not sure yet how to cope and am thinking about creating a thread here for advice, guidance, and support. Good luck to you on moving on.


----------



## manticore

poppoppop said:


> So yes, I'm done with being choice 2 when other girls are attempting to make me choice 1. She wants to be choice 2, she is free to go ahead.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good for you man, you gave her enough chances to save the marriage, i even dare to say too many chances (i mean without being a doormat). 

I can understand how with effort, pain, tolerance, and understanding one can overcome infidelity, what i can't never understand is how someone can settle being second option, is good you didn't.

keep posting how you manage yourself now in your bachelor life. 

Wish you the best.


----------



## poppoppop

Hey I have a question. So my wife hid her wedding ring. She didn't hide it well though. I found it. What if anything, should I do with it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MovingAhead

poppoppop said:


> Hey I have a question. So my wife hid her wedding ring. She didn't hide it well though. I found it. What if anything, should I do with it?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sell it at a pawn shop for cash... You will need it.


----------



## bfree

Take a picture, put it on Facebook and ask if anyone wants to buy a used potentially cursed wedding ring.


----------



## CASE_Sensitive

Give it to Frodo


----------



## turnera

bfree said:


> Take a picture, put it on Facebook and ask if anyone wants to buy a used potentially cursed wedding ring.


Yep. Let her SEE you selling it.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

poppoppop said:


> Hey I have a question. So my wife hid her wedding ring. She didn't hide it well though. I found it. What if anything, should I do with it?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You do nothing. You let her keep it and it serve as a reminder of how she failed as a wife and what that ring means. You go an pawn yours or have it melted down and turned into something else like a solid gold tooth pick :smthumbup: 

Come on, any guy with a solid gold toothpick has some swag. LOL


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

poppoppop said:


> Hey I have a question. So my wife hid her wedding ring. She didn't hide it well though. I found it. What if anything, should I do with it?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Lay yours next it. Let her get rid of it for you.


----------



## warlock07

why hide?


----------



## illwill

Dad&Hubby said:


> You do nothing. You let her keep it and it serve as a reminder of how she failed as a wife and what that ring means. You go an pawn yours or have it melted down and turned into something else like a solid gold tooth pick :smthumbup:
> 
> Come on, any guy with a solid gold toothpick has some swag. LOL


This is true.


----------



## sandc

CASE_Sensitive said:


> Give it to Frodo


Wins one-liner of the day!


----------



## missthelove2013

Personally...I would take the ring to the nearest jeweler, have them inscribe "W-H-O-R-E" on it...maybe in various places, and then return it to where she hid it


----------



## Doyle

Sell them both, golds getting a good price.

All the best mate


----------



## Wazza

It's worth something. Check the legal implications before you do anything.


----------



## poppoppop

Update: Well, we are hammering out the divorce terms. Both of us are making an attempt at being fair. She has gone from I'm not paying a man alimony to offering 1/4 of her paycheck to now offering 1/2. In the meantime, the other man's wife has been calling me for support. I keep telling her to ditch that idiot. Well, the latest is that he was out here with my wife for 3 days a few weeks ago. His wife tells me he made a pass at her after that, and she figured out his password for his personal credit card. 

Guess what? He's been spending hundreds at different bars every night. He's also been frequenting strip clubs and dropping a lot of money. He's staying at a hotel near his house, but there are charges for cheap hotels at the same time. Also, she found a receipt for condoms and I know he and my wife are not using them. So we have come to the conclusion he is going to prostitutes and strip clubs regularly. Basically, he's already cheating...not just on his wife, but mine too. I could be nice and tell her but....


Hahahaha!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

poppoppop said:


> Update: Well, we are hammering out the divorce terms. Both of us are making an attempt at being fair. She has gone from I'm not paying a man alimony to offering 1/4 of her paycheck to now offering 1/2. In the meantime, the other man's wife has been calling me for support. I keep telling her to ditch that idiot. Well, the latest is that he was out here with my wife for 3 days a few weeks ago. His wife tells me he made a pass at her after that, and she figured out his password for his personal credit card.
> 
> Guess what? He's been spending hundreds at different bars every night. He's also been frequenting strip clubs and dropping a lot of money. He's staying at a hotel near his house, but there are charges for cheap hotels at the same time. Also, she found a receipt for condoms and I know he and my wife are not using them. So we have come to the conclusion he is going to prostitutes and strip clubs regularly. Basically, he's already cheating...not just on his wife, but mine too. I could be nice and tell her but....
> 
> 
> Hahahaha!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What a f^ckin surprise.
Karma bus can't come soon enough for him.:lol:

Tell he after the d is final.

Sorry I'm just a sob.:FIREdevil:


----------



## LongWalk

Guy Stuck in Limbo,

How does it feel to read the end of the story when you are at the beginning?


----------



## LongWalk

Does the OMW want to sleep with you? Sometimes doing it once is a good way to say f' you to OM.

The affair will burn out sooner rather than later.

Re: the rings
Obviously someone smart needs to set up a website that sell cursed rings with short note about the history.


----------



## Chaparral

You should give your stbx all the info you can. You don't want your kids mother catching stds.


----------



## warlock07

Remember what happened when OP tried to tell her what a scumbag OM was the first time ? yeah, it did not work. She should find it out for herself.



> I know he and my wife are not using them.


She is now continuing the affair in the open now ?


----------



## happyman64

Oh PopPop.

Your wife can really pick em.

Take her $$$.

It will only make her feel the sledgehammer blows even more when she wakes up.

She will get everything she deserves in due time.

HM


----------



## poppoppop

I have no interest in the OMW. Making her feel better does give me some satisfaction. And despite all this, I can tell she wants him back. I know this is a huge mistake, so I'm also taking satisfaction from telling her to never allow him back in. 

Yes, their affair is now out in the open. I'm actually encouraging it now. I realized they were at the end of it when I discovered it and the separation for them actually rekindled it for them. I also realized no two people deserve each other more. 

As for my soon to be ex wife, I even asked her close friend (whose husband cheated on her) and she said not to say anything because despite what she does know, she still chose him. She's still in a fog. Even if I showed her the charges and receipts, she wouldn't believe it. Everytime she tries to share food with the kids, I interject right away. Everything she touches when she eats is being treated like its radioactive.
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk

Pop,

You have done the best a man and father could do. Your wife has destroyed her life. What exactly did OM give her that was so wonderful that it was worth it? There are those moments that only lovers know: he lay exhausted in the business trip hotel room, parts of his body glistening with the exertions of the sex act. She gazed upon him bewitched by her post coital passion.

You have seen at least a photo or two of him in bed with your wife. Is he an Adonis? Well, that beauty will fade as he and your wife struggle to reconcile their enormous joy with the barren mountain of problems they face.

Was it in your thread that the OM tattooed his wife's name upon his body as PR gimic to sell reconciliation attempt that ultimately failed? The two of them are going to have wild monkey sex and she is going to lay her head or hand gentlly upon his chest over the tattoo of his angry ex-wife's name? 

And then they are going to talk about how they hate paying alimony and how their children are being alienated from them. They have a lot to share. His need for sex from prostitutes even while carrying on a love affair and reconciliation attempt suggests that he will not be satisfied with your wife. Even if they stay together, I predict she will come to hate him with a fury that will burn brighter than the love she felt for either of you.

She will also be filled with self loathing for destroying her relationship with her own children. Sad. And when she rose in the corporate ladder people told her she was so clever being able to deal the complexity of being an executive while having a happy family looked after by an enlightened SAH dad.

She is going to have to really enjoy her career now to gain some sense of satisfaction out of this. The corporate world is cruel. No matter what your wife does at work now, some of her colleagues will ungenerously remind others not to forget that she fvcked so and so and lost her family.

Pop, forgive me if I cannot remember what your profession had been prior to taking care of your children. I remember that you did go for a job interview. Hope you got it. At any rate given your smart responses to this life crisis, I would guess that you are an asset to any team.

In the future, it is not unlikely that your deluded WW is going to find three enormous holes in her heart from the loss of you and your children and eventually the OM, once that relationship proves a failure. I cannot imagine what she can fill these with? She will probably invest enormous hope in the OM, although it will just make her eventual suffering even greater.

You will survive and down the road some months from now maybe you will get lucky and meet someone. It wouldn't be surprized if you got introduced to a really nice woman who would be sold on the idea of dating you based the admiration you must be generating.

What do you think about the stay at home dad idea today? Is it something that the average guy should mess with?


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## warlock07

What about your employment ?


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## Chaparral

poppoppop said:


> I have no interest in the OMW. Making her feel better does give me some satisfaction. And despite all this, I can tell she wants him back. I know this is a huge mistake, so I'm also taking satisfaction from telling her to never allow him back in.
> 
> Yes, their affair is now out in the open. I'm actually encouraging it now. I realized they were at the end of it when I discovered it and the separation for them actually rekindled it for them. I also realized no two people deserve each other more.
> 
> As for my soon to be ex wife, I even asked her close friend (whose husband cheated on her) and she said not to say anything because despite what she does know, she still chose him. She's still in a fog. Even if I showed her the charges and receipts, she wouldn't believe it. Everytime she tries to share food with the kids, I interject right away. Everything she touches when she eats is being treated like its radioactive.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would have to ask omw for copies of what she found and show it to my wife. 

Plus I would put it on cheaterville.com

I personally believe in revenge as it improves other peoples character, makes one feel better , and does society a great benefit. Its the gift that keeps on giving.

Suooner or later your wife will come out of her denial, the sooner the better for your kids. After all, you can't all ways be with your kids and the om will be around them. He is the definition of lowlife.


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## Chaparral

Do understand the point of breaking up the affair in order to keep the posom out of your childrens lives forever, that especially goes for any one , btw, with a daughter.

He sounds as scummy as they come. Put nothing past him.

Help his wife pull hpim back in. He doesn't deserve two families.


Personally, I would take b****t before I let him around my kids. This just about you.


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## missthelove2013

Chaparral said:


> I would have to ask omw for copies of what she found and show it to my wife.
> 
> Plus I would put it on cheaterville.com
> 
> I personally believe in revenge as it improves other peoples character, makes one feel better , and does society a great benefit. Its the gift that keeps on giving.
> 
> Suooner or later your wife will come out of her denial, the sooner the better for your kids. After all, you can't all ways be with your kids and the om will be around them. He is the definition of lowlife.


revenge is simply a karma boost...aiding karma as there is a LOT to be done...LOL

I agree with revenge...if I can find ONE redeeming quality to a vengeful act, and often I can, I will do it


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## the guy

poppoppop said:


> Update: Well, we are hammering out the divorce terms. Both of us are making an attempt at being fair. She has gone from I'm not paying a man alimony to offering 1/4 of her paycheck to now offering 1/2. In the meantime, the other man's wife has been calling me for support. I keep telling her to ditch that idiot. Well, the latest is that he was out here with my wife for 3 days a few weeks ago. His wife tells me he made a pass at her after that, and she figured out his password for his personal credit card.
> 
> Guess what? He's been spending hundreds at different bars every night. He's also been frequenting strip clubs and dropping a lot of money. He's staying at a hotel near his house, but there are charges for cheap hotels at the same time. Also, she found a receipt for condoms and I know he and my wife are not using them. So we have come to the conclusion he is going to prostitutes and strip clubs regularly. Basically, he's already cheating...not just on his wife, but mine too. I could be nice and tell her but....
> 
> 
> Hahahaha!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Telling her won't change a thing.

If she is willing to give up a marraige and a family and not face that reality what makes you think she will face the reality of what this POSOM is all about?


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## Chaparral

the guy said:


> Telling her won't change a thing.
> 
> If she is willing to give up a marraige and a family and not face that reality what makes you think she will face the reality of what this POSOM is all about?


Maybe not, but it could be the straw that breaks the camels back. In any event it sows more seeds of doubt that may pay off in the future.


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## tom67

Chaparral said:


> Maybe not, but it could be the straw that breaks the camels back. In any event it sows more seeds of doubt that may pay off in the future.


I would tell her what omw said just very matter of fact laugh about it and leave so she can call her bf.:lol:


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## sandc

OM will lie about what he's doing and OP's WW will believe the lies. Good for her.


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## workindad

sandc said:


> OM will lie about what he's doing and OP's WW will believe the lies. Good for her.




Sadly, I believe you are absolutely correct.


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## poppoppop

Update: So early on, my wife said that she would never bring this guy around to meet the kids. The OMW calls me and says that she suspects he is applying for a job out here. So I ask my wife and she says he has been apply and plans on moving here. I ask her where he'll be staying and she says, he'll get his own place but might stay over at her place too. I tell her, what about the kids? She's like, don't worry, I won't introduce them for a while.

So I cussed my wife out like crazy because there is no way I'm letting that guy meet my kids even once. First of all, he's leaving his kids to take a job on the other side of the country? He's a lying sack of you know what. And now with all the stuff he's been up to, there is no way I want him anywhere near them. I told her I would sell the house and use all the money to pay for attorneys and fight her if she doesn't agree that he will never meet them. 

Today I found out he stupidly went to his own kids and told them their mother was lying about him taking a job on the west coast. She didn't say anything to the kids so they were like...she didn't say anything....you're taking a job on the west coast? Now they're mad at him.

By the way, after talking to my wife, the OMW sent me a message saying that the OM accused the OMW of trying to make my wife lose her children and what a horrible person she is. Then he texts me saying how I'm not a good father and that I need to start thinking about my kids. The guy who plans on leaving his kids is saying I need to be a better father. Uhhh?


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## just got it 55

poppoppop said:


> Update: So early on, my wife said that she would never bring this guy around to meet the kids. The OMW calls me and says that she suspects he is applying for a job out here. So I ask my wife and she says he has been apply and plans on moving here. I ask her where he'll be staying and she says, he'll get his own place but might stay over at her place too. I tell her, what about the kids? She's like, don't worry, I won't introduce them for a while.
> 
> So I cussed my wife out like crazy because there is no way I'm letting that guy meet my kids even once. First of all, he's leaving his kids to take a job on the other side of the country? He's a lying sack of you know what. And now with all the stuff he's been up to, there is no way I want him anywhere near them. I told her I would sell the house and use all the money to pay for attorneys and fight her if she doesn't agree that he will never meet them.
> 
> Today I found out he stupidly went to his own kids and told them their mother was lying about him taking a job on the west coast. She didn't say anything to the kids so they were like...she didn't say anything....you're taking a job on the west coast? Now they're mad at him.
> 
> By the way, after talking to my wife, the OMW sent me a message saying that the OM accused the OMW of trying to make my wife lose her children and what a horrible person she is. Then he texts me saying how I'm not a good father and that I need to start thinking about my kids. The guy who plans on leaving his kids is saying I need to be a better father. Uhhh?


un fvcking believable


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## tom67

poppoppop said:


> Update: So early on, my wife said that she would never bring this guy around to meet the kids. The OMW calls me and says that she suspects he is applying for a job out here. So I ask my wife and she says he has been apply and plans on moving here. I ask her where he'll be staying and she says, he'll get his own place but might stay over at her place too. I tell her, what about the kids? She's like, don't worry, I won't introduce them for a while.
> 
> So I cussed my wife out like crazy because there is no way I'm letting that guy meet my kids even once. First of all, he's leaving his kids to take a job on the other side of the country? He's a lying sack of you know what. And now with all the stuff he's been up to, there is no way I want him anywhere near them. I told her I would sell the house and use all the money to pay for attorneys and fight her if she doesn't agree that he will never meet them.
> 
> Today I found out he stupidly went to his own kids and told them their mother was lying about him taking a job on the west coast. She didn't say anything to the kids so they were like...she didn't say anything....you're taking a job on the west coast? Now they're mad at him.
> 
> By the way, after talking to my wife, the OMW sent me a message saying that the OM accused the OMW of trying to make my wife lose her children and what a horrible person she is. Then he texts me saying how I'm not a good father and that I need to start thinking about my kids. The guy who plans on leaving his kids is saying I need to be a better father. Uhhh?


I hope the omw gets a shark lawyer and takes him to the cleaners.
He's going to move away from his own kids?
When they are older they may not want to interact with him at all. 
He will regret this when he can't see his grandkids.


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## bfree

The only way you are going to stop him from being your children's step parent is to utterly destroy him and this affair. If he isn't on Cheaterville yet that should be your first move. You should also email the HR departments at every place that he could be applying to and send them the Cheaterville link. If you haven't exposed to everyone possible you need to do that now. The battle for your children is now underway and I don't have to tell you the stakes.


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## turnera

Agreed. If you know the places he'd be applying to, write them each a nice letter.


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## tom67

bfree said:


> The only way you are going to stop him from being your children's step parent is to utterly destroy him and this affair. If he isn't on Cheaterville yet that should be your first move. You should also email the HR departments at every place that he could be applying to and send them the Cheaterville link. If you haven't exposed to everyone possible you need to do that now. The battle for your children is now underway and I don't have to tell you the stakes.


bfree is spot on!
Time to expose on all fronts.
A guy named somedaydig did this to the om he was a lawyer
well his not anymore he's a salesman.


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## TRy

poppoppop said:


> Then he texts me saying how I'm not a good father and that I need to start thinking about my kids.


 Text him back, "If my kids and your kids were to talk to each other about the affair, and then vote who had the best father, not only would I win, but I doubt that you would get a single vote." Then text him that "I reasonably beleive that it is in my children's' best interest not to be around such a morally corrupt person as you."


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## Chaparral

bfree said:


> The only way you are going to stop him from being your children's step parent is to utterly destroy him and this affair. If he isn't on Cheaterville yet that should be your first move. You should also email the HR departments at every place that he could be applying to and send them the Cheaterville link. If you haven't exposed to everyone possible you need to do that now. The battle for your children is now underway and I don't have to tell you the stakes.


Do this as fast as possible, prospective employers google the applicants name. Include the fact he is leaving his kids and coming to your area and breaking up you family.


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## Chaparral

I would tell him on the phone, "I can't wait till you get with in striking distance."


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## phillybeffandswiss

poppoppop said:


> Then he texts me saying how I'm not a good father and that I need to start thinking about my kids. Uhhh?


How is keeping your kids away from a manipulative liar not worrying about their welfare?


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## LongWalk

A post you made a ways back:



poppoppop said:


> We agreed we would spend time apart and in a few months, we would regroup to see if we should start dating again. I asked her if I was free to date other people and she said she couldn't stop me, but would like to know if I do make that decision. She said she is only thinking about me as a possibility now and the next person she will be dating is me unless I tell her I've moved on.
> 
> *So there you have it. The cards are still not stacked in my favor. In 2 weeks, I've gone from uncovering this affair and her saying no chance of reconciling to where we are now...two people who are unsure if they even want to reconcile, but both claiming they'd like to discuss it after some time has passed.
> 
> We are officially separated but exclusively not dating yet.*


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## LongWalk

Another unbelievable exchange. Pop, to your credit, you can think on your feet. Your wife is not a very good liar and then again lying is by definition difficult when your goals are a diametrically opposed. She wants to be a good mother by deserting her children to be with a man who is deserting his children to be far away from them. WTF:scratchhead:

Old entry by you:



poppoppop said:


> Update: this morning my wife called me to warn me that the other man's wife might be contacting me. She said they have been texting but its just to end things. I told her I didn't believe her and that she promised absolute transparency. She said she didn't tell me because she was trying to protect me. AGAIN, what a martyr!
> 
> I told her no the only reason you are telling me now is that you guys it caught again. I asked her if he said he still loves her and wants to be with her. She admitted that he did. I asked her if she wants to be with him. *She admitted that she thought maybe someday they could be together. * I told her from now on, unless its about our divorce or a concern with the kids, do not contact me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3putt

Chaparral said:


> I would tell him on the phone, "I can't wait till you get with in striking distance."


You had better believe it. But notice what Chap said.....on the phone. Nothing in writing that can come back and bite you in the ass..


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## poppoppop

Update: So I spoke to my wife today and tried to come to an agreement on divorce terms. She did what she does. She said she would fight me then said she would also not agree to the OM meeting the kids. I yelled at her like crazy and told her she is crazy for allowing someone like him near them (not to mention near her). 

After talking to a friend, he brought me to the reality that in fact, I don't have a case to keep him away unless he's done something criminal. He also said that if I keep going down this dark path, I'm going to end up getting in trouble myself either with the law or with an acrimonious divorce. It dawned on me that the real thing I want is a divorce and to get her out of the house with as little repercussion to the kids or my finances. I just want her out. I went to her late tonight and gave her my reasons for not wanting him to be around the kids and asking her to just get out as soon as possible. She agreed (lied) saying she will not introduce him for years (she said 3 years, but we know she meant 3 minutes). I told her to tell me the truth from now on and start right now. She admitted he is planning on coming next weekend. I told her I appreciate the truth and let's be adults. (Honestly, I'm sort of glad they are still seeing each other. Is that weird?)


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## davecarter

poppoppop said:


> She admitted he is planning on coming next weekend. I told her I appreciate the truth and let's be adults. (Honestly, I'm sort of glad they are still seeing each other. Is that weird?)


No, not weird at all.
I actually told my own wife that seeing her OM was a good idea - if everyone was happy about it and _feeling _happy about it.


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## happyman64

PopPop

Your wife is an idiot but you cannot control her.

How old are your kids and what do they know about their Mommy's boyfriend?

Will they be confused by her actions next week?

HM


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## TheFlood117

Wow, haven't kept up with this thread. But I'm up to speed. Your doing great pop, just stay the course. Your stbxw is way, way gone and so far into the fog that not all the high beam lights in the world could find her. The woman you married is gone. Forever. You are doing the correct and only sane thing in divocing this woman and purging the toxicity of her out of your life. 

About the OM and your kids. There really isn't nothing legal you can do. But that doesn't mean you can't make it hard on him and her, I say in this case scenario, when WW is wanting to bring her f*ck buddy around the kids. All gloves off. Full on scorched earth policy. 

The kids need to know about your wife. I say, make them hate her. Truly show and tell why your wife is such an awful parent and why you are so much better than her. Kids are very impressionable. This is a dirty tactic, but meh. Your wife opened the flood gates. Time to get a little wet. 

I know that many here might not like that advice. But all is fair in love and war. 

Having scumbag OM around your wife is one thing. And you know what, that's fine. But when your kids enter the equation. 

All bets off. 

Just my 2 cents tho. 

You sound like a good man. I wish the best. Good luck.


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## LongWalk

Hope for the sake of your kids that the POSOM is not a complete POS, but the evidence suggests that he is going to accord her the same warmth and devotion that his first wife enjoyed. OK, maybe your ex won't get a unique tattoo.

If your job search is frustrating you, maybe you and CantThinkStraight could coach each other. He has had a tough time finding work, he's an IT guy. I suspect he became depressed by his cheating wife and the divorce. His threat is pretty moving if you haven't read it.


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## ShootMePlz!

Just say that if she does.....you will be forced to tell the kids all about her cheating and that its the OM's fault that the family broke up!!


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## JCD

Update?


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## poppoppop

Hi JCD...I almost forgot about this site. I guess that's a good thing. Here's an update:

Happy holidays all! 

The soon to be ex is moving out in January. January can't come soon enough. We've been sharing kid duty for a while and I can see how it will work out. I'm still very worried about how the kids will take it. We agreed we will discuss it with them once she gets her own place. 

I met a few people and have been dating again, which was a little weird at first. I've been open with them about my situation and that I'm just dating casually to get back into it. I even let them know I'm going on dates with other women. Oddly, they're ok with that (for now). I actually told one woman I didn't think it would work out and wanted to end it (which was very hard for me because she was a sweetheart) and she was very understanding. 

One is actually an old friend of my soon to be ex. She's great and seems very cool. We've only gone out once but talk often. (She has a kid and our schedules just don't seem to sync too well.)

The last one is a little too into it and she's awesome and gorgeous, but I'm just not sure if I'm at that point of anything too serious. She's quite a bit younger, so I'm concerned we're at such different places in our lives. Because of this, she's freaking out on me a little. Things could be worse though. We talk every day and whenever we are free, we get together. 

My best friend said to me recently, "Your wife basically went with the first jerk who showed interest...you have the opportunity to meet several girls and filter through what you like and don't." It was such a basic idea, but really opened my eyes to what an amazing spot I'm in. 

Today, my ex took the kids and as she was leaving, I had a thought. It's so strange how a few months ago, all I wanted was to be with her. Now, there is no way I'd even consider it. Every option is better than her. Shoot...being alone is better than being with her. 

2013 may have belonged to my ex, but 2014 is all mine.


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## manticore

I am glad for you man, and your friend is totally right you now can look for a woman who matchs your personality, needs, tastes and who can appreciate your good qualities, unlike your STBXW who now will carry a stigma for the rest of her life, which probably will make that the only kind of men who wants something with her are POS like OM


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## LongWalk

Awesome.


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## Headspin

poppoppop said:


> Hi JCD...I almost forgot about this site. I guess that's a good thing. Here's an update:
> 
> Happy holidays all!
> 
> The soon to be ex is moving out in January. January can't come soon enough. We've been sharing kid duty for a while and I can see how it will work out. I'm still very worried about how the kids will take it. We agreed we will discuss it with them once she gets her own place.
> 
> I met a few people and have been dating again, which was a little weird at first. I've been open with them about my situation and that I'm just dating casually to get back into it. I even let them know I'm going on dates with other women. Oddly, they're ok with that (for now). I actually told one woman I didn't think it would work out and wanted to end it (which was very hard for me because she was a sweetheart) and she was very understanding.
> 
> One is actually an old friend of my soon to be ex. She's great and seems very cool. We've only gone out once but talk often. (She has a kid and our schedules just don't seem to sync too well.)
> 
> The last one is a little too into it and she's awesome and gorgeous, but I'm just not sure if I'm at that point of anything too serious. She's quite a bit younger, so I'm concerned we're at such different places in our lives. Because of this, she's freaking out on me a little. Things could be worse though. We talk every day and whenever we are free, we get together.
> 
> My best friend said to me recently, "Your wife basically went with the first jerk who showed interest...you have the opportunity to meet several girls and filter through what you like and don't." It was such a basic idea, but really opened my eyes to what an amazing spot I'm in.
> 
> Today, my ex took the kids and as she was leaving, I had a thought. It's so strange how a few months ago, all I wanted was to be with her. Now, there is no way I'd even consider it. Every option is better than her. Shoot...being alone is better than being with her.
> 
> 2013 may have belonged to my ex, but 2014 is all mine.


Hahha well done pops In terms of options I'm similar 

2 weeks ago my vstbx suddenly "wanted to come home" !! I weighed up the options we even got physical but I thought "this is the option you always take and a year later its alll sh!t again". After stopping the physical in mid flow I told her the kind of peron she would need to be in order for me to even consider it. Over the next few hours she showed she was actually worse than before !! and she made any decision for me. It did make me relalize that me on my own is actually a good option and I need the right person not just any person, any 'habit' 

Being on my own has given me the focus, the power to see how I need to protect myself even if my heart might be saying something different

It has to be right (watershed moment for me this)

Yep 2014 will hopefully bring a redifined set of standards for me amd you too :smthumbup:


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## jack.c

great update!


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## Gomerpyle

What an interesting read. The wife was for sure a deceiver to the end. 

The thing I don't understand though is that OP had hang-ups about sex and as they remain unresolved isn't this going to be a problem that haunts the next relationship too?


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## weightlifter

Dude update once in a while. I would love to see in say two years. I met this woman in late 2014... Blah blah blah perfect for each other blah blah fvck each others brains out blah blah blah getting married next summer.

Circle and recovery complete.


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## tom67

weightlifter said:


> Dude update once in a while. I would love to see in say two years. I met this woman in late 2014... Blah blah blah perfect for each other blah blah fvck each others brains out blah blah blah getting married next summer.
> 
> Circle and recovery complete.


:smthumbup:


----------

