# Sudden and unexpected separation; looking for advice



## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

My fiance and I were together for 7 years. We had the storybook romance: we were always happy, never argued, never tired of each other, and all of of friends and family looked at us as having the perfect relationship. Life could not be better for the two of us.

She moved out for school two years ago, and the distance was hard on us, but we stayed strong. I saw her about two weekends a month. Then toward the end of her school, we started to feel more distant from each other. Then tragedy struck: my mom suddenly died. Shortly after, the two of us went to counseling to see what was missing between us. We received some great insight, and focused on better communicating our feelings.

We made a trip to Seattle to look for work and a new home, unsure of our future. We spent days together, exploring the city, and immediately felt the intense love return. We felt hope. She was so excited to finally start her career, feel some financial independence, and pursue her dream as a nurse.

We came back home, and life started to change. I lost my job, we were both struggling to find work, we were eating into our wedding fund to make ends meet, part of our home is torn apart for a remodel, etc. I could feel her become distant again. I tried to get her out of the house, to open up, to smile, but nothing. She only wanted to look for work and work on the house. I watched her become angry, and she directed some of her anger at me.

After a month or so of this, she told me she was leaving, and moving back with her parents. She told me that she hasn't felt the same about me for months. I don't agree. When we were in Seattle, and for several weeks after we got back, we were madly in love, and she is one who can't hide her emotions. She said she didn't know what the future will bring, but she's not completely giving up on us yet.

After she moved out, she canceled all of our wedding plans (the wedding was for July 2012). One of our mutual friends says that she's moving on with her life...

I'm convinced that the challenges we've faced have nothing to do with our relationship, but have been allowed to influence her view of us. Everyone who knows her, including her family, is surprised and confused.

I feel lost... I'm afraid that she'll give up on us completely. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you all.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

I'm very sorry you are going through this. My guess is that all the stress and uncertainty got the best of her. Perhaps moving back in with mom and dad gave her the stability and peace she is looking for.

As for advice, I can't think of anything but a book for you to read. The book is _The Five Love Languages_ by Gary Chapman. It's a must read for everyone. It really explains that old cliche we hear a lot around here...... "I love you, but I'm not in love with you". The book also tells you how to get the "in love" feeling back.

Hope things work out for you.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

Thank you 827Aug, I'll look into the book.

My fear is that she thinks with her heart, and not her mind. This is definitely not a bad quality, but right now her heart is telling her she doesn't love me. I feel that she isn't looking at tomorrow or the past, only today, and today she feels like starting over with her life. Everyone I've met with, including our pre-marital counselor, feels that she's letting life's struggles affect her feelings for me. After all, how can you feel love when you're so frustrated and disappointed with everything else around you?

I'm lost, because there's nothing I can do. Only wait. She makes decisions in the moment, and I'm afraid that she'll move to California to work. There are more opportunities there, and she has family there as well. She's in such a rush to start her career. If she moves to California, then that will probably ruin any chance we have.


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## denise1218 (Dec 24, 2010)

I am so sorry that you have to go thru this. As you probably know...it sucks!! One thing I do know is....life changes in an instant! My husband and I were having problems, but we were working on them. Next thing you know....he moved out. I don't know about you, but I know for me I have a zillion scenarios going thru my brain at all times....the what, when, why, where did it all go wrong and the how to get the life back that I was content in??? I can only the confusion you must be going thru...but....if you love something....set it free.....if it comes back to you, it
is yours...if it doesn't...it never was....
Wishing you the best during this time!


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## mariem1967 (Dec 1, 2010)

Yes your situation is hard but life is not milk and honey. Every start is hard but 2 people in love supporting each other can make wonders. It isn't easy but true love survives everything. Seems like your girl is not ready to suffer and wants everything easy way. 
Maybe she'll realize that she loves you and miss you after some time and she'll be back. You have to wait and see.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

Thank you everyone. I'm still a little confused at her actions: she asked if she could keep the engagement ring, and took all the pictures of us with her. Then, she cancels the wedding. I just don't know what's going on in her mind right now...


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Hey Jeff, sorry to hear of what happened. Sounds like the problems started a bit ago and maybe she never felt they were resolved? Are you sure there isn't a third party involved?
Don't ever fight someone on what they say their feelings are. If she wants space, give it to her. Don't beg or plead with her to stay if she wants out. Maybe you can write her a letter telling her you are willing to work on and restore the relationship and leave the ball in her court. 
As for the ring--if she cancelled the engagement, she should give it back to you. If you guys do work it out, great, but if not, while it hurts like mad right now, be SO glad it happened before a marriage was involved and potentially destroyed. Divorce sucks.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

I'm positive that there isn't a 3rd party involved. I've known her for 8 years, and its not in her character. She's always said that cheaters are the lowest of the low.

She thinks that there are unresolved issues, because she says she hasn't felt the same in months. When I asked her about how she felt on our Seattle trip, how she felt during the good months afterward, she didn't reply. I think she's depressed. Not wanting to leave the house, not exercising, not wanting to see friends, and only seeing the negative side of things is very unlike her, but that's what she's been like for the last month.

I wrote her a letter a few days ago. She should be getting it today. I told her that while the separation hurts, I support her decision. I told her to think of the good times we've had and think of the future, not the present. I said that no matter what, she'll have my support in whatever decision she makes, because she needs to take care of herself first, but our relationship was too wonderful to give up on just yet.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

jeffsmith77 said:


> I wrote her a letter a few days ago. She should be getting it today. I told her that while the separation hurts, I support her decision. I told her to think of the good times we've had and think of the future, not the present. I said that no matter what, she'll have my support in whatever decision she makes, because she needs to take care of herself first, but our relationship was too wonderful to give up on just yet.


Ooh I like the way you appraoched this. Most people fall all over themselves begging nad crying for the person to come back but you didn't Good for you. It shows her that you are rational and supportive and not desperate. All awesome things.

Do you know what she could be depressed from?


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

Thanks Jellybeans. She is incredibly driven and has high expectations of herself. She prides herself on being strong and independent. She finished school Magna Cum Laude and received a special Leadership Award. She passed her nursing certification exam with the highest score possible. Afterward, she was so driven to find a job, only to be met with 3 months of rejections from Seattle hospitals, which she seemed to take personally.

No work, losing her momentum, losing my mom, eating into the wedding fund to stay afloat, etc. is a lot to handle. In my letter I asked her if we had both found work in Seattle and made the move, would she still have left me? I'm thinking no. Life became very hard, very fast, and I think it was too much for her to handle.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

jeffsmith77 said:


> I'm positive that there isn't a 3rd party involved. I've known her for 8 years, and its not in her character. She's always said that cheaters are the lowest of the low.
> 
> She thinks that there are unresolved issues, because she says she hasn't felt the same in months. When I asked her about how she felt on our Seattle trip, how she felt during the good months afterward, she didn't reply. I think she's depressed. Not wanting to leave the house, not exercising, not wanting to see friends, and only seeing the negative side of things is very unlike her, but that's what she's been like for the last month.
> 
> I wrote her a letter a few days ago. She should be getting it today. I told her that while the separation hurts, I support her decision. I told her to think of the good times we've had and think of the future, not the present. I said that no matter what, she'll have my support in whatever decision she makes, because she needs to take care of herself first, but our relationship was too wonderful to give up on just yet.


I tried to post this morning from my phone, but it wouldn't work. While reading this, I kept thinking she's cheating. I know it's hard to see it that way, and it's probably not physical. She is talking to someone and having an emotional affair, which makes her question her love and commitment to you. My husband was the same way with saying cheating was a deal breaker, etc. and he had an emotional affair. He is actually involved with his 2nd I believe which may spell the end for us. Even having already gone through this, it took me until today to see all the signs in clarity. It is very important that you stay strong and cool, pleasant but not pathetic. She might come back around. Don't accuse her, but if there is a way to check into things, I definitely would. I could be wrong, and I'm not trying to alarm you, but I don't want you to be blinded by love. A very small percentage of situations like this do not involve another person. And chances are, she's not in love with the other person. They've just connected and possibly shared relationship woes. I wish you luck. And I hope I'm wrong.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

We've spent every day together for months, rarely ever separating. In school, all of her classmates were women, with the exception of 3 married men. She didn't socialize in school, because with her condensed program, there wasn't time for anything but school. I can say with nearly 100% certainly that there isn't anyone else, since it's not in her character, and she would find it hard to have the time and energy to find someone else. I appreciate your honesty, and I'm not speaking out of denial either. I've been cheated on before...


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

^ Lonelyk, I agree with everything you say. 

while it's possible his fiance isn't cheating, I agree with you that most peole being cheated on say "he/she would never cheat. it's not their personality." Very common.
My husband also always swore that he thought cheaters were the lowest of the low and lo and behold...

If she was going out a lot or hitting the gym and getting dolled up I'd say it would def be more of a red alarm but who knows. 

Right now, you have done the right thing--telling her you are there for support and will accept whatever decision she makes. 

DO NOT run or go chasing after her. It could end things totally for you if you turn into a melty man. Right now you are handling this really really well, IMO.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

jeffsmith77 said:


> Thanks Jellybeans. She is incredibly driven and has high expectations of herself. She prides herself on being strong and independent. She finished school Magna Cum Laude and received a special Leadership Award. She passed her nursing certification exam with the highest score possible. Afterward, she was so driven to find a job, only to be met with 3 months of rejections from Seattle hospitals, which she seemed to take personally.
> 
> No work, losing her momentum, losing my mom, eating into the wedding fund to stay afloat, etc. is a lot to handle. In my letter I asked her if we had both found work in Seattle and made the move, would she still have left me? I'm thinking no. Life became very hard, very fast, and I think it was too much for her to handle.


That explains a lot. I have a grown son who was in the gifted program at school. He even went to college at age 16 on a scholarship. He is still a career student....and that's another story.

Early in grade school, we had to meet with a psychologist who specialized in working with these highly intelligent children. She told us children with very high IQ's have one big problem area. They are many times afraid to try things or push themselves because they are scared to death of failure. They also like to work/be in their comfort zone. I'm thinking your girl friend considers herself a failure. Hence, you are seeing all of this current behavior.

I really don't understand why she doesn't have a job yet. Nurses are in big demand in my region.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

So, I'm beginning to see some signs that she's over me. She's going out with friends, working out, our mutual friends say that she seems like she's doing ok... I don't understand how someone can be so in love with someone for 7 years, face one rough month, then completely move on. Do you think she's really over me, or is it because she's removed herself form some of the stresses she was facing?


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## denise1218 (Dec 24, 2010)

It seems as if whomever ever is the one to "break it off or need space" tends to have a headstart on removing the emotional bs from themselves.....doesn't mean she is over you....just means she has already started a new chapter in her life. : ( Sorry you have to go thru this.....but just from reading your posts....you seems to be taking this well!!!


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

denise1218 said:


> It seems as if whomever ever is the one to "break it off or need space" tends to have a headstart on removing the emotional bs from themselves.....doesn't mean she is over you....just means she has already started a new chapter in her life. : ( Sorry you have to go thru this.....but just from reading your posts....you seems to be taking this well!!!


Thanks, but I'm not really handling it all that well. I'm not sleeping, my hands constantly shake, and no matter what I do, I can't stop thinking about her. Its true that she was probably considering the breakup for a while before it happened. But the fact that I don't think I had anything to do with her decision to leave is the hardest part. Her family, my friends, and our pre-marital counselor all agree that she succumbed to the pressure of life's struggles she's experienced. The trouble is, will she ever see it that way?


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## Oak (Mar 21, 2011)

Unfortunately Jeff the question of whether she will ever see it that way is not one you can ever expect to be answered.

I can tell you that my best days are ones where I fully accept that whatever my wife is going through I cannot control and she does not even want me involved. If I can come to terms with the fact that my wife, partner, lover may be gone for good, I find myself able to enjoy my own company a lot easier.

Do something for yourself each day. Visit family and friends. By becoming a more stable individual you prepare yourself for her return, or for your new life if she doesn't. 

Best of luck to you.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Jeff, she prob isn't "over" you 100% but she has a head start in the healing process. They say the one who leaves has been thinking about it for awhile. Her grief prob won't hit her until it's all said and done. While you are goign through the trauma right now, she hasn't had to face it just yet since she's busying herself with other things.

Seven years is a long time. She is thinking about you. Trust me.

In the meantime you need to get busy joining a gym, getting a new hobby, hanging with friends. Read a book you've been meaning too, call up an old pal you haven't talked to in awhile.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

True, the one who leaves has more time to process the separation. I just feel that her decision to separate came so suddenly... She felt distant from me for about a month, but during those last two weeks was when it was really noticeable. I think it was a sudden decision (she's always been prone to acting first and thinking later). Her decision to leave came after a night where she exploded in anger over a minor thing.

I'm sure that she is thinking of me, I just hope that she's starting to miss me. In our 7 years together, we only went one day without talking, until she left. I started to miss her today more than I ever have.

I have a job interview in the Seattle area this Friday that I'm feeling pretty good about. If I make the move to Seattle, especially before her, it may show her that I'm moving on with my life. From what I understand, showing her that I'm moving on is the next step towards a possible reunion. Besides, moving out of "our" house will do me some good.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Good luck with the job interview. When you do get that job, it should be interesting to see what your girlfriend's reaction is.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Good luck on the job interview!


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

Thanks everyone. I'm not sure what her reaction will be. She was concerned about co-dependence in our relationship, and my move to Seattle might show her that I'm moving on with my life. It might make her think about our lives together in Seattle, which was her next step in life. Again, this all goes back to the hardest part of our separation: I have absolutely no idea how she feels.

As far as I know, she's still looking for work in Seattle. She doesn't have many friends up there, so she may be more inclined to see me. In counseling, she admitted that our relationship flourishes when we spend quality time together. When we were first having troubles connecting, and she was doubting her feelings for me, all we needed to get that spark back was a few days together. If we're able to see each other during a more stable and secure point in our lives, those feelings may come back. I just don't see how her love for me goes away in a month. When she left, she seemed to give up hope for everything in life.


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## denise1218 (Dec 24, 2010)

I wish you the very best of luck in your job interview!!! Go for it!!!! I hope your situation has the outcome that you want!!! But, if it doesn't.....with time you will be able to function and love life again. It has been three months for me....I am starting to smile and laugh more than I do cry.....we are all here for you!!!


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## Crankshaw (Jan 12, 2011)

may some of my good luck from today rub off on you Jeff, good luck !!!


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

Well, the interview seemed to go well. And it turns out it will pay more than I was anticipating. I should hear back within a couple of days...

If I get the job and move, I think it may help to rekindle our relationship. We both dreamed of moving to Seattle, and she's trying to get out there as well. She felt that I was stuck in my career, but this job pays considerably more that my last job. If she moves to Seattle, that means she found a job, and will likely be happier with her position in life. Since I think a large part of our separation was her frustration with life, getting her in a happier place in life might help to clear the air. Plus, our relationship thrived on exploring new places. If we can manage a friendship, this might be the first step to getting back together.

In the meantime, I've been meeting with our counselor. My ex had a couple of things she wanted to see change in me, and I'm working hard on those changes now. Mind you, these are all changes I wanted to see in myself anyway, I just needed the push.

My weight and general lack of physical activity was always an issue with her (although she's really not that shallow). Since she left, I've been running every day and lifting weights. I've lost 10 pounds fast, and can already see some new muscle definition forming. If she doesn't see me for a little while, she'll be shocked at my transformation. This might make her more attracted to me too...

It may seem that I'm coming across as desperate, but I'm so driven only because I believe that the reason for our separation had so little to do with me. Once you find the love of your life, you'll do everything in your power to get them back.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

I'm sorry you lost your mom at a relatively young age--that's a sad, tough situation to be in. 

I am going to suggest that your assessment of things is not the only explanation. Perhaps the two years you were apart gave her a chance to start experiencing life as a single person. She possibly went through a lot of changing and began disconnecting from you then, without even realizing it. She fell back into familiar patterns when you were together again, but the emotional connection just wasn't there anymore. You don't say how old the two of you are, but I'm guessing you got together pretty young and she lacked self-confidence at the time, or at least was not as mature as she is now, 7 years later. She may have become a different person in those 2 years apart and you really haven't had time to see it. But she may feel that the person she is now would not be happy with the same relationship. So, she finally admitted to herself, and you, that she didn't think it would work. 

Regardless of the reason for the separation, I would encourage you to move on, because there is every reason to think it is over. And if it isn't, well, you won't have lost anything by investing energy in yourself. Now isn't the time to rush into a new relationship anyway. Good luck; it is hard, but people get past these things and grow, only to find happiness in other ways and with other people.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

Thanks for the condolences. I'm 34, and she's 29. Although the 2 years apart were tough on us, we managed to come back stronger than ever. We had our setback at first, but she realized all that we needed was some quality time together (her words). Once we focused on us, our relationship grew. Everything was going well until early-mid February, which is also the time I lost my job, we were running out of money, and she became visually frustrated with the rejections during her job hunt.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

Well, I have an update. It turns out that she's temporarily giving up on the job hunt in Seattle. Instead, she's focusing on joining the Peace Corps or becoming a Navy Nurse to gain some experience, then making the move to Seattle after a couple/few years.

I met with my counselor yesterday, and she said some interesting things. She feels that my ex is shutting me out of her life to focus 100% on her career. She is so focused on being financially independent. If she keeps me in her thoughts, it could affect her career path. This concerns me, for her sake, because she's forcing herself to ignore me. Well, unresolved issues will find a way to creep up again, and she may regret her decision. As upset as I am, I don't hate her. I still want her to be happy, and I want her to live life without regrets.

She hasn't had any real relationships until she met me, so she may not realize how great it was...


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## Oak (Mar 21, 2011)

jeffsmith77 said:


> ...I met with my counselor yesterday, and she said some interesting things. She feels that my ex is shutting me out of her life to focus 100% on her career. She is so focused on being financially independent. ...
> 
> She hasn't had any real relationships until she met me, so she may not realize how great it was...


Sorry to hear that Jeff. Part of my situation is very similar to what you are seeing regarding her financial independence. 

It sounds like she is also unsure of exactly what she wants; in a relationship, or out of life in general. I know lots of people join the Peace Corps (including some of my friends from HS) but hearing that while you two are juggling relationship issues, it just sounds like she is running. My personal opinion only of course.

In your position I guess I would just try to be supportive of her wishes. Honestly if she is going to go find herself and focus on her career, I would be doing the same and work on starting fresh. One day maybe she will realize what she lost, or maybe she won't. Maybe you will be with someone else by then and have no regrets.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

Thanks Oak. To be honest, I think she'll have a hard time getting into the Peace Corps. They run a thorough psychological analysis on all of their candidates, and given her current state (our counselor confirmed this), the Peace Corps will likely turn her down.

She's never had a serious relationship before me. Somehow, she believes in the Cinderella story, that the right man will lead to nothing but passion and romance. As soon as we hit a bump in the road, she ran. Our counselor met with us 3 weeks before my ex left me, and our counselor noted how happy she was. Our counselor believes that my ex is repressing feelings for me, so they won't interfere with her career objectives. That's not healthy, and sooner or later, it could be a problem for her.

In the meantime, I'm moving on with my life. It's really hard, because I'm very close with her family (closer than I am with my own family...) and I might lose them as well. I'm focusing on my career advancement and my move to Seattle. It will be a while before I can date again, and when I do, I might have some trust issues to deal with as a result of what's happening.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

The Cinderella Story is a farce. It's a "fairy tale" meaning it's not true. 

Relationships take work. She will see that when she is gone. 

Good for you for moving on. You said as soon as you hit this bump, she bailed.

Thinking in terms of long-term--you really deserve to be with someone who won't bail at the slightest bump in the road.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

Thanks Jellybeans. She hasn't had any relationship experience, so I don't think she realized how good she had it. To maintain the passion and the spark, and to get the butterflies in your stomach, for 7 years is next to impossible, especially since she has trust issues with men.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

That 7 yr itch is so true, isn't it? (I am divorcing at 7.5 lol)

Yeah no butterfly feelings last forever. So if that is what she is searching for, she will be sorely disappointed.

Just move on and smile. This chapter has ended but a new one is getting ready to start!


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## Oak (Mar 21, 2011)

Oh Jelly, your optimism makes me smile. Thanks for the positive energy!:smthumbup:


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Glad to know I can make ya smile. Am having a down day myself but I just roll with it


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

I can't agree more Oak. Sorry to hear about the divorce Jellybeans; even if it's for the best, it's still difficult. I'm trying to smile each day, but to be honest, it's been harder than usual these past few days.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Yeah a divorce is not a fun thing to go through but this is the end of our chapter. Mine is a long story (aren't they all, LOL) as I left then he filed then he dismissed but I didn't sign the dismissal and we went back and forth and ultimately he said we should let the divorce happen after all we'd been through, but he still wanted us to be together after the fact living as normal to which I told him I loved him to pieces but that would not work for me, that I was done. 

The 7 yr thing is true!!!!


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

I never thought the 7 year itch would affect us, but it just shows that I was wearing rose-colored glasses. I also thought that we could work through any troubles that may come our way. Boy, was I wrong.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

A mutual friend of ours is going out to Eastern Washington (where my ex currently lives, with her parents) to drop off the rest of her things. Our friend has a background in counseling and can be direct, without being harsh. My ex listens to her, and spending an entire weekend with her might give my ex some time to talk things through. I'm not expecting a complete turnaround, I just want her to think that maybe she didn't make the right choice, and that life is hard only in the moment, and will get better with time.

I decided that if we were to try things out again, we'll take it slow. I'm hurt, and I'm angry, but I still love her. Even after focusing on all of the negative characteristics, I still love her. I've had two other women (both friends of mine) that have come up to me and said they would love for the chance to date me, and both are beautiful and intelligent women. So it's not that I don't have other options and I'm fighting for my ex out of desperation and loneliness. I'm still fighting because I still love her.

I'm continuing with my counseling sessions, which help a great deal. If my ex decides to move on without me, then having a great working relationship with my counselor will help me create a solid foundation for me to rebuild.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

jeffsmith77 said:


> I'm continuing with my counseling sessions, which help a great deal. If my ex decides to move on without me, then having a great working relationship with my counselor will help me create a solid foundation for me to rebuild.


This is very good


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

Thanks Jellybeans. I only hope that my ex will go to counseling too, for her sake more than mine.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

Well, we talked. She said that all of those moments we shared together these past few months (that amazing time in Seattle, her telling me she loved me with tears in her eyes) was her trying to fool herself that we were ok. Somehow, I still find that hard to believe. Am I just in denial, or is she still so focused on the negatives in life?

She said she's been taking this breakup pretty hard, but she's moving on. I told her I was doing the same. We talked for almost 2 hours, giving me a chance to express some of my anger and confusion, and letting her know that I'm moving on as well. She said that she misses me, and she's angry with how things have turned out between us. In the end, we agreed that we'll keep in touch, and remain friends.

Even though our conversation helped, why do I still feel a sliver of hope for us? Am I fooling myself, or is it that her life is still so difficult, and she's not seeing hope in anything anymore, and maybe we'll start off slow again some day?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

You feel the hope because you haven't detached and let go yet.


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## lostdad (Apr 2, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> You feel the hope because you haven't detached and let go yet.


God that's depressing. I too hold a small sliver of hope for my own 15 year relationship, and I know your right. I know it is most likely over but it's just so depressing to think that 15 years of happiness and a beautiful son could be all over in the blink of an eye.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

Ok, a little more info. She called me the day after her first call to cover some business, and we ended up talking a bit about our plans. To be honest, I'm surprised she called, since she said it would be a while before we would talk again, and the item she wanted to cover could've easily been done through a text message.

During our first phone call, she refused to talk at all about her plans and what she's been doing since the breakup. But the second call, she was filling me in on some of the things she's been doing and some of her future plans. She also mentioned that she has days where she's fine, and other days where she wants to stay in bed and cry.

I told her that I'm continuing with my running and exercise routine. I've logged almost 75 miles in my first month, and I had to buy new jeans because of the weight that I've lost (she's always wanted me to be in better shape). She seemed a little surprised, then supportive. After a while, I jokingly mentioned that a mutual friend approached me and mentioned she's like to go on a date, if I was ready. I told my ex I wasn't ready to date, and she got angry, saying "Well, that's YOUR decision."

I also said that I was still planning on moving to Seattle. She said that that was no longer her plan, and I said that was too bad, because she was really looking forward to moving there, but I was still going.

After a while, I told here that I realized that I don't need her. I want to be with her, but I don't need to have anyone, and the fact I'm doing as well as I am shows that I'm independent and strong.

In all, the conversation went well, and here's why:
1. She was always worried about co-dependence issues between us. By not chasing after her and taking care of myself, I showed her I'm not dependent on her
2. She felt that I was moving to Seattle only because she wanted to. Now she knows it was my personal goal, and I want to move for me, not her
3. All these years, she wanted someone who was assertive. That has definitely come through in my actions and my tone lately. By expressing my anger, and even elevating my voice (without being accusatory or rude), I've shown her a side of me she hasn't seen

I have no idea what will happen next...


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Glad to hear you had a good conversation with her. 

You are doing the right thing.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

With all of this time alone, and life at a standstill, I've had some time to do some self reflection. I took a look at what I've done with my life these past few years, and I'm disappointed. I set myself some goals years ago, and I've done nothing to meet them. I wanted to get in shape and be more active, I wanted to go back to school and get my Masters degree, and I wanted to be a world traveler. These goals have been in place for years, and I've done nothing to meet them.

For as long as I can remember, I wanted to be more fit and feel confident about my body. But I've been telling myself that I don't have the time to do it, and my asthma is a big hurdle. I've been waiting for years for an employer to offer some financial assistance with my graduate program. I've been telling myself that traveling the world is too expensive, and I need to be more financially sound before I can travel. I took a long hard look at these hurdles and I realized that they haven't been holding me back. I have.

I've had enough. It's time to man-up and achieve the goals I've set for myself. I've logged 70+ miles running in just over a month, and I lift weights five days a week. I'm thinner, healthier, stronger, and more confident that I've ever been. I'm ordering my passport and talking with my friend Christy about making a trip to see her and her boyfriend in Switzerland, possibly late next summer. I'm setting up a money market fund to invest most of my savings as a graduate program fund, and I'm meeting with the admitting staff at the University of Washington this month to discuss program options, as well as financial planning assistance. Each week, a portion of my paycheck will be transferred to this account, and I'll be living modestly in Seattle so I can put as much away as possible.

The funny thing is I had this epiphany the other night. I woke up suddenly at 2 in the morning and this popped in my mind. I also realized that my ex wasn't wrong for leaving me. Why would someone with her drive and assertiveness want to spend her life with someone who lives life on cruise control? I found many of the qualities I want in a woman, and that woman wouldn't want to be with someone who lives like I have the past few years. I'm making these changes for myself, and not her. I'm not sure if I'd take her back.

With my mom dying suddenly, I realized how short life can be. If I found out I'll be gone tomorrow, will I feel good about the life I've lived? Right now, the answer is no. It's time to change that.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Well all of that is very noble of you but dont' blame yourself 100% for her leaving or start bashing yourself either. It was her choice to leave, not yours.

Sure, you're not perfect, nobody is. But don't kill yourself with self-depracation.

Be the best you you can be.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

Don't think that I'm beating myself up, because I'm not. I see this as the kick in the butt that I needed to get my life back on track. While I let myself down, I'm doing everything I can to reclaim my life and do the things that I want to do. I'm seeing these difficulties in my life as a catalyst for change. In fact, I feel better about myself now than I have in a long, long time.

What will be interesting is telling her what my new plans are. And these changes are for me, and not for her. I know she'll be supportive, and I think she'll be surprised. It probably won't change anything between us, but it will give her something to think about.


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## DelinquentGurl (Mar 25, 2011)

827Aug said:


> I'm very sorry you are going through this. My guess is that all the stress and uncertainty got the best of her. Perhaps moving back in with mom and dad gave her the stability and peace she is looking for.
> 
> As for advice, I can't think of anything but a book for you to read. The book is _The Five Love Languages_ by Gary Chapman. It's a must read for everyone. It really explains that old cliche we hear a lot around here...... "I love you, but I'm not in love with you". The book also tells you how to get the "in love" feeling back.
> 
> Hope things work out for you.


I second reading the book, it was very insightful.
I'm not one for self help books either, but once I started reading it, I couldn't put it down and finished it in a day.

I am very sorry that your hurting. I know it feels terrible.
Just take things one day at a time, one minute at a time if you have to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

I have a question for you all: I tried the no contact rule, and she eventually called (and called the next day, as I mentioned above). How long should I take before I start contacting her? I'm inclined to wait for her to call me, mainly because I want to show her that I'm stronger than she realized. I honestly believe she thought I would be taking the breakup harder than I am.

Also, I have some big developments in my life. I'm saving for my Masters, I'm saving for a trip to Switzerland within the year, I'm exercising and running every day, I'm losing weight, and I have a renewed sense of self confidence. She always wanted me to be more assertive, more healthy, and more driven, and my lack of progress is a main reason why she left me. Well, I got the wake-up call I needed, and I feel better now than I ever have. I'm doing these changes for me, but if they help her to think twice about me, that's a big bonus.

What I keep hearing is that when I talk to my ex, I should avoid any personal information, to keep her guessing. But I've made a huge, and permanent, life change. A change I always knew I was capable of, and a change she needed. Do I tell her the news, or keep her guessing? I'm afraid that if I don't tell her, she may not know that I'm bettering myself. Thank you all!!!


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## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

I would drop hints but from what I have gathered the whole point of the 180/tough love everything is to get her interested in youagain. you can't do this by freely divulging information she needs to come back to you not you come back to her because you weren't the one wholeft.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

Thanks Niceguy13, that's good advice. I never thought of it that way... I'll have to figure out how to give her some hints next time she calls me. What's reassuring is I'm pretty certain that none of our mutual friends are telling her much, but I'm telling them the news.


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## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

My story is in this forum Jeff 9 years and no longer in love with me. Been chronicling pretty much everything since soon after D-day. It might help you to read that as wellgive you somemore perspective as its not your story. I know for me it has helped reading stories similar to mine but where I was able to step back because I wasn't in it.

*edited for a Freudian slip


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

I just read your story Niceguy13, and I'm very sorry to hear what you're going through. I can definitely see the similarities between us, although your situation is a bit more severe than mine, I hate to say. I honestly believe that the feelings can return, if only my ex would give it a chance. But, I think she needs to be in a better state in life to see it. She has a bad habit of letting life's stresses affect everything, and she buries the problem as opposed to confront it. I have no doubt that I didn't live up to her expectations, but I feel the situation became worse due to everything else negative in her life.


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## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

I feelmuch the same way. Imade the mistake of telling her so. Saying it feels like you are getting pressured from all sides and you have no control so you are changing the one thing you can control, divorcing me. As expected that didn't go over well because I "invalidated her fellings" even if I was right  My wife is also a very passive aggressive person. She hates confrontation and will do anything to appease someone. She said I am controlling but she won't take her "turn" driving the car even though I have told her I need to. I think a tandem bicycle might be a better analogy though. Both people are suppose to peddle. I have been doing all the peddling and she has done none. Now she is complaining that I never let her peddle and I am just stuck going we were both suppose to be pedaling the entire time *points* see theres your pedals.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

I know it's hard, but you can't focus on any mistakes that have been made. They're in the past. My ex always felt that I was dependent on her, and the one thing she wanted was financial and personal independence after her school. Well, now I think she realizes I don't depend on her (I told her I realized that I didn't need her, and my lifestyle shows that), so now she needs to work on her independence. She's needed help all her life, and all she wanted was to feel free. I hope she gets that soon, it may make her feel better about everything else, including me. But still, I can't wait around for that to happen, because it may never happen.

I understand the passive aggressive thing. My ex says she hates passive aggressive people, but then she cancels our wedding and tells me after the fact in a text message. I hate to generalize, but most women I've met think from the heart, and if their heart hurts, they'll do what ever they can to protect it. In this case, she shut me out and ran away. I still believe that she's ignoring any feelings she may still have for me, because facing those feelings now will be one more obstacle in her life. So, I'm letting her do her thing, following the no contact rule, and doing everything I can to move on. Like you, I'm not exactly sure what my ex needs right now... Hang in there.


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## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

Haha I am more then hanging in there. I am at the realization point as you. Don't worry I am not walling in past mistakes. I made some but more refelecting on them and learning from them. You also might get a kick out of the most recent update to my story that happened earlier today. I think she is slowly starting to realize its not as peachy keen as she was led to believe and I am better then what her friends and OM have led her to believe. She ain't there yet but its happening one day at a time.Meanwhile everyday she is still back there I am moving on with my life. Pretty soon she is going to have to run if she ever expects to catch up to me.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

It's great to hear that you're doing so well. I'm surprised at myself: I always thought that if she left me, it would destroy me. While I still hurt like hell at times, overall I'm better than I've ever been. And though the progress I've made are many of the improvements she needed, I'm doing it for myself. And that is a great realization.

Between her and I, I feel that my life is going in a better direction than hers. She doesn't know that yet, but I'm looking forward to giving her hints as to how well I'm doing and what I have planned for myself. I think my new-found drive and direction will surprise her. I don't think she has any doubts about her decision yet, but I'm wondering if my news might put a little doubt in her mind.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Niceguy13 said:


> I would drop hints but from what I have gathered the whole point of the 180/tough love everything is to get her interested in youagain. you can't do this by freely divulging information she needs to come back to you not you come back to her because you weren't the one wholeft.


This.



jeffsmith77 said:


> My ex always felt that I was dependent on her
> 
> I understand the passive aggressive thing. My ex says she hates passive aggressive people, but then she cancels our wedding and tells me after the fact in a text message.


Re: the dependence--this is why you must be independent and show her you don't need her to succeed/move forward.

Re: passive aggressiveness--what SHE did was passive-agressive. Hello, cancelling a wedding and telling you via a text. That is beyond immature. Be so glad you didn't marry her. SEriously. You are hurting now but you'll look back and be so glad you didn't marry someone who could so callously cut off an engagement w/ you... and explain detail through the PHONE in a written text. It's weak.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

I'll need to figure out how I can say "I'm getting my Masters degree, I'm losing weight, and I'm planning an international trip" by only dropping hints. I want her to know, but I also want her to feel the need to know more...

I can understand where you're coming from by saying it's good I didn't marry her. This is where I'm torn. I've known her for over 8 years, and she just... snapped. No one, not even her family, understands what happened and what she's thinking. It was a move that was so out of character, and she later admitted that she was wrong and felt horrible for how she handled it. I'm still not happy about it. The thing is, no matter how much I focus on the negatives about her, I still love her. I've already had opportunities to date again, so it's not like I feel unwanted.


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## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

jeffsmith77 said:


> I'll need to figure out how I can say "I'm getting my Masters degree, I'm losing weight, and I'm planning an international trip" by only dropping hints. I want her to know, but I also want her to feel the need to know more...
> 
> I can understand where you're coming from by saying it's good I didn't marry her. This is where I'm torn. I've known her for over 8 years, and she just... snapped. No one, not even her family, understands what happened and what she's thinking. It was a move that was so out of character, and she later admitted that she was wrong and felt horrible for how she handled it. I'm still not happy about it. The thing is, no matter how much I focus on the negatives about her, I still love her. I've already had opportunities to date again, so it's not like I feel unwanted.


When she calls you don't pick up the first time if she is the call back immediatley type if she is the call in frequently type miss a couple. Then when she asks where you were jsut say I have been busy. Which willlead her to busy with what. By doing this you are showing her you are fine even if you aren'tshe is going to read it as wow he is doing really well without me. Its going to make her want to know what is so important in your life that it replaced her.

The hard part is going to be keeping it up after the first couple conversations. There are a few stories in the going through divorce or seperation thread that are pretty in detail with the ins and outs. I suggest reaing as many of them as possible especialy the ones where it feels like they are talking about your ex. Pay attention to what has been working for those people and what hasn't.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

Thanks again Niceguy13, you always have great advice. I've read several other threads, and it's interesting to see how others are handling their situation. And to be honest, it reaffirms the fact that I think I'm doing the best that I can. I've taken some time to do some self-reflection, I've discovered what I've been missing in my life, I'm improving myself physically and mentally, I'm not contacting her, and I'm showing her in subtle ways that I'm doing great without her.

I met with my counselor last night. She had called my ex to get her approval to move my counseling sessions from couples sessions to an individual focused sessions. My counselor said that after she talked to my ex, and after hearing what I've seen, my counselor feels that my ex is depressed (but trying to bury it). I'm not sure if this will help or hurt my chances of reconciling...


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

So, she called me and left me a voicemail today. I saw she was calling, but I decided not to answer. Her message was a brief "Hey it's me, gimme a call when you can". She sounded very enthusiastic. I don't know why she sounded so happy; it could be she got a job, or it could simply be she was having a good day. Guess I'll find out.

I'd like some feedback: I'm planning on calling her tomorrow sometime. Normally, I would get back to her within a few hours at the latest. But I'd like to show her that I'm busy, and she's no longer a priority for me. I know some of you will say "Don't call her back", but she knows I have some time. If I don't call her, she might get upset. Besides, I want to drop hints about a few things going on with me, such as my weight loss, my decision to go back for my Masters, and my trip to Switzerland. I'm hoping to her a few ideas from you all. Thanks as always.


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## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

I would wait at least 24 hours. Then when she questions you about why it took so long just be like all my clothes were to big so I need to go out and get newones before my trip/job interview/school whatever. Nothing more then that. If she asks about the trip just be like oh its nothing big just going to get a away forx amount of time. Make her hungry for that info.

And thanks for think I have good advice now if only my heart wouldn't cloud it when dealing with my SO


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

Well, she texted me later, saying "FYI I will be in town tomorrow. Just passing through for the night". I really didn't know how to take it. If she didn't tell me she was going to be in town, I would never know. After talking with a mutual friend and discussing what my ex's intents were, we felt that she was hoping to see me for a bit.

After some thought, I replied "Ok. Hope you have a good trip. I have a lot going on tomorrow, but you can call me if you have some time." I think this was the right thing to say. It shows her she's not a priority to me, I'm keeping busy, and I don't need to see her. I'm sure she'll call me tomorrow; I don't know if she wants to go out for coffee or something quick. And you know, I kind of want her to see me. I've lost weight, I'm feeling great, and life is good. I want her to see me doing well. As far as stirring up any emotions for me, I don't know what effect it will have. Right now, I'm thinking the effect will be minimal.


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## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

I personaly feel that was a great way to handle it. You made it sound like you were to busy to deal with her but left an opening for her to call and find out. Giving her the choice to call you while upping your credentials.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

Thanks. And if she sees me thinner, more fit, and more driven, it'll give her a taste of what she's missing. I want to rub it in her face a little. I know she's a ways from regretting her decision, but I want her to see that I've progressed so much, so quick. It might make her really interested to see and hear more in the future. And guess what? I'll keep her at bay.


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## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

Can't remeber if I recommended my story or not to you Jeff but you might want to check out 9 years and no longer in love with me. I have been chornicling everything thus far and I do mean everything. Where I am at how she is reacting etc. Our stories have a lot of differnces but it might help


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

Yep, I did read it through. While there are some differences, there are many similarities. I'm glad to see you doing so well. It's inspiring. I'll be sure and post what happens tomorrow, whether we see each other, talk on the phone, or decide not to talk at all.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

Well, I saw her today. She was a little quiet, and didn't look me in the eye for a while. We had a good chat: I told her about my plans for my Masters degree and my trip to Switzerland. She seemed surprised, and also supportive. She was happy to hear about the changes I've been making, and smiled a little the whole time I talked. I said that I took some time to reflect on my life, and I wasn't happy, and it was time to change. I have a new-found level of confidence, and I've never felt better. Although she wouldn't look at me when she talked, when I spoke, she was looking me in the eye and seemed happy with what she saw. I'm not reading too much into it, but I was happy to see her happy with my improvements.

She immediately noticed my weight loss, which was a huge ego boost. I maintained a positive tone, smiling a bit when I talked, and stood up strong.

We didn't talk about our relationship, but reflected a little bit on some places that were important to us as a couple. She eventually warmed-up, and I got her laughing. We had a great talk, keeping it light, and laughing while we had lunch. We decided to go to this simple teriyaki place that we used to go to all the time, and have a lot of great memories tied to it.

She didn't hug me, which didn't surprise me. I didn't attempt anything physical either. When she left, I said it was good to see her. She said it was good to see me too.

I know, I know... I should have given her hints about my plans, but once I started to open-up, the dam burst. But seeing her surprised just gave me the confidence to keep going for a couple of minutes. Now she'll be on vacation with a friend for a few days, and I've given her some things to think about. Now, when she starts to call again, I'll let it go to voicemail and call her back on my terms.


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## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

Bad jeff bad jeff  Glad to hear it went "well"though.Put the well in quotations well I am sure you know why. I am finding this the hardest part to not reading to much into their reactions to the changes you have been making. I just keep reminding myself one day at a time one foot forwarded followed by the next.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

So, she came back to my house to pick up her dog (she put him in my backyard while she went to see a friend), and said she was hoping to go for a hike. I asked if she wanted to go alone, or if she wanted me to come along. She asked me to come along too.

We went to one of our usual spots, and we still laughed and had a good time. We reminisced about the good times in our relationship, and talked about our individual plans.

On the drive back, I told her that I was really happy, and I didn't realize how unhappy I was for this past year. She said she thinks we were both in denial. I said it had nothing to do with our relationship, but the quality of time we spent together and my job. While she was in school, I saw her every other weekend, and those weekends were her studying and me working remotely. Not a good way to spend quality time.

During the hike, the frustration she felt about the job hunt and being back with her parents was obvious. And it was also apparent that she's still at peace with her decision to end our relationship. I'm not surprised by any of this. She still seemed to focus on the negative side of things. She may regret her decision to leave me one day, but to hear the tone in her voice expressing comfort was hard to hear.

She said that I'm a wonderful man. I said that I wasn't yet. I'm a good man with a new drive and sense of assertion, becoming a wonderful man. We got back to my place, shared a few more words, and she left.

Now that she's gone, I regret going on that hike. I should've given her some time alone to think. But things were going my way, and I wanted to push it a little more. Still, she'll have a few days of vacation to think.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Yeah, I probably wouldn't have gone on the hike. You were a little too available for her while she was in town. And it's almost like she is seeing you okay which makes her feel better about the whole thing. I'm sure she's seeing you a bit differently now, but it is almost like she's feeling you out. Hard to know what's going through her head, but stay strong. You are doing great!


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## harley (Apr 14, 2011)

If you have been together since you were in high school she may just feel like she has missed out on something. She may see getting married as the end of a chance to experience some of the things she has missed out on. I would let her come to you. Continue to work on your house and spend some time with your friends. If you are not there for her she me discover that not having you would be the worst thing in her life to miss out on. I wish you luck and hope it helps to know there is a lot of us around who feel the same way you do.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

Thanks to everyone who has replied to this thread. Since the situation between my ex and I have changed, I'm going to start a new thread whose topic better fits the help/advice I'm looking for. Thank you all.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

jeffsmith77 said:


> she asked if she could keep the engagement ring


That needs to come back asap. Broken engagement = ring comes back. Take her to small claims court if need be.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

I told her it was a gift to her. It's obvious that the ring still means a lot to her. Besides, the ring really wasn't all that expensive, so I'm not worried about it.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

jeffsmith77 said:


> I told her it was a gift to her. It's obvious that the ring still means a lot to her. Besides, the ring really wasn't all that expensive, so I'm not worried about it.


It's the principle of the thing. No future woman will respect you if they find out you let her dump you and keep the ring.

Plus all future women will assume you carry a torch for her and they might remain #2 girl in your life forever.

Plus it provides you with some closure.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

Got it. I think a part of the reason she wants to keep the ring is that she hasn't given up entirely on me yet. She says she misses me. Our friends say she wants to call me everyday, and she's having a hard time adjusting to life without me. She's acting like she's depressed, and it's really hard to feel love when you're depressed.

For now, I'll go NC again. The last time she saw me, she saw a thinner, stronger, more driven and assertive me. I was also happy. Honestly, I don't think she expected to see me doing so well. She is going to pass through town tomorrow, and I think she wants to see me again. Well... I'll be too busy to see her. Showing her I'm moving on and taking care of myself and showing her she's no longer my top priority will give her something to think about. I just don't think this is completely over yet. But still, my life goes on, and whatever happens, happens.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

She may just think you're avoiding her. I'd ask for her to stop by and give the ring back.

If she obviously wants to be back together, then run with that if you still want her. Otherwise push her out the door because you need to get ready for a date.


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## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

I have never agreed with taking a ring back unless she originally said no. No other woman needs to know he let her keep the ring. If its a family heirloom I understand but just a regular ring that you bought and paid for to go on her hand nope.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

I hope I'm not reading too much into this, but why would she want to keep the ring? An engagement ring isn't precious metals and diamonds, it's a symbol of the relationship. Whenever she sees that ring, she'll think of us. If she was truly done with me, why would she want to keep it?


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## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

No matter what she is telling you or saying she can not erase you.That ring symbolizes everything "good" about you. Her wanting to keep it and not throw it back at you at least says she realizes there was "good." Same reason why with everything I am going through I keep putting my ring back on for a few minutes each day. Not out of a sense that it will change something instead its more like a meditation period where I allow myself to reflect on my currently broken relationship.

And yes any woman that comes after her if it comes to that will have to be ok with me keeping that first ring. Obviously not on that hand but she is the mother of my two children including but not limited to my first born son. No I have nothing really to give an heir besides my name but he is my heir. He inherits my legacy in the hopes of adding to it and making it better.

Anyways back on topic is she actually wearing the ring still?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Etiquette says that a broken engagement means the ring goes back to the guy. Especially if she is the one who broke it off. 

I love jewelry and have never given any back but can't imagine keeping a ring from a guy I dumped. Wedding rings are different. Those stay with the spouses. My ex actually took and hid my wedding rings from me before we separated. And 5 months later gave them back to me. It really hurt me though cause he said "These rings are miiine...I paid for them..." I thought, if they are yours, you can have them but he didn't want them back. Amazing. 

She prob wants to keep the ring becasue she likes the fact she was given an engagement ring. Of course, that is mind-reading, but personally, as a woman, I couldn't keep an engagement ring from a man who I ended things with. It's wrong.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

Niceguy13 said:


> Anyways back on topic is she actually wearing the ring still?


No, she's not wearing it. She said she'd like to wear it again, but on the other hand. It's not your traditional engagement ring: it's two Tahitian pearls surrounded by diamonds (she never was much for big diamonds). I can't imagine any future man in her life would feel ok with her wearing it, but I don't think she'll be dating anyone for a while. She said she has no interest in meeting anyone new, friend or otherwise.

I think a part of the reason she wants to keep the ring is that she isn't entirely sure of her decision, at least permanently. For now, her decision was the right one in her mind. I don't know... I think the most important things to her right now are getting her career going and gaining financial independence.


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## Momof2inMT (Apr 9, 2011)

I agree with Niceguy. I think she wants to keep it because she wants a physical reminder of everything good about the relationship, and I see nothing wrong with letting her keep it, while things are still up in the air between the two of you. If your relationship progresses to 'definitely over' status, then I would say get the ring back.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

An engagement ring means she is marrying you. Since that is not the case, she should give the ring back to you. You can keep the ring in case she changes her mind. But she shouldn't have the option of dumping you and switching the ring to her right hand.

If she communicates her indecision to you, you can respond by telling her that you'll hold on to the ring for a while. But if you're just getting through her friends, they may be trying to spare your feelings. Or she may want to pawn the ring for a TV or something. Get it back.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

I don't want the ring back. I already told her she can keep it, and I'm not about to go back on my word. And she's not going to sell it. She loves that ring, and it's not very valuable, so she wouldn't get much for it if she tried to sell it.


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## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

call me old fashioned but an engagement ring to me has always meant my intent to marry her not the other way around. So yes even if she called off the wedding its still her ring. Now for an engagement ring if you did something to truley irk me I would ask for it back. In Jeff's case it doesn't seem IMHO that he has grounds for asking for it back. Whether they get married or not it was still a gift of lovefor a woman he does have love for. *Shrug* But I realize I am wierd when it comes to marriage in the western world.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

The ring is more than a symbol of our relationship. It is also a symbol of my love for her. No matter what happens and how many years pass, I truly did love her at the time, more than I can ever say.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Although I know "the 180" works sometimes, I think it is important to keep in mind that if one person has changed and moved on, then they may no longer be in love with the person that attracted the "old" them. And if the 2nd person grows and changes, there is no reason to believe that the 1st person--who had already grown and changed--will find the "new" 2nd person someone to fall in love with. Yes, there is a chance, but it seems to me that odds are against it, or at least only 50/50. So Jeff, change for YOU. If you are doing these things to get her back or at least "make" her regret leaving, you may find yourself slipping backwards when your plan does not work. Furthermore, some of us would give a lot to see our former partner appear to be happy--it's a relief b/c we did/do care and are worried about you, but we are happy for you, not interested in getting back with you. 

You change for yourself. And make sure the "new" person is really you, before you date. If you are thinner, more ambitious, and a world traveler, some woman may fall for you b/c of those things. If that isn't really you--but just was the persona you adopted to win back your old love--then you will likely eventually revert to the less ambitious, more homebody you--and your new love interest will wonder well the hell her boyfriend went! Capice?


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

sisters359 said:


> You change for yourself. And make sure the "new" person is really you, before you date. If you are thinner, more ambitious, and a world traveler, some woman may fall for you b/c of those things. If that isn't really you--but just was the persona you adopted to win back your old love--then you will likely eventually revert to the less ambitious, more homebody you--and your new love interest will wonder well the hell her boyfriend went! Capice?


These changes that I'm making are for me. Losing weight and getting in better shape, getting my Masters, and traveling, were all goals of mine before I met her. I didn't pursue my goals because I had no confidence in myself.

When my mom died in December, it gave me a real wake up call. I needed to do something about my health. So, I started running. As I felt better physically, became more active by incorporating weights, i started to lose weight, put on muscle, and feel great about myself. This helped boost my self confidence, and led to the realization that I haven't done much with my life. It turns out that I needed to be alone with my thoughts and do some self reflection to come to this realization.

My ex truly did love me for who I am. But, she realized she needed more. She wanted someone to share her active lifestyle and she wanted someone who was driven: things that I wasn't, but promised to be. I wanted to make some changes in myself, but I didn't have the confidence to start. Well, that changed.


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## rome2012 (Sep 10, 2010)

jeffsmith77 said:


> These changes that I'm making are for me. Losing weight and getting in better shape, getting my Masters, and traveling, were all goals of mine before I met her. I didn't pursue my goals because I had no confidence in myself.
> 
> When my mom died in December, it gave me a real wake up call. I needed to do something about my health. So, I started running. As I felt better physically, became more active by incorporating weights, i started to lose weight, put on muscle, and feel great about myself. This helped boost my self confidence, and led to the realization that I haven't done much with my life. It turns out that I needed to be alone with my thoughts and do some self reflection to come to this realization.
> 
> My ex truly did love me for who I am. But, she realized she needed more. She wanted someone to share her active lifestyle and she wanted someone who was driven: things that I wasn't, but promised to be. I wanted to make some changes in myself, but I didn't have the confidence to start. Well, that changed.


This sounds sooooooooo much like me !!!!!!

Exactly like me !!!!!!

I hope your story will have a good ending !!!!!!


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

Thanks rome2012.

I just spoke with our counselor tonight, and we talked about my first interaction with my ex since the breakup. She seems to think that my ex is definitely depressed, and is projecting a lot of life's frustrations on me. The thing is, she can't love anyone right now. I just need to give her some time and some space, and we'll see what happens, if anything. We're remaining friends, but I'm keeping our interaction to a minimum.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

Alright, I might be reading too much into this (and give me a slap across the face if I am). The last time we saw each other, she said she wasn't looking for work in the Seattle area. Instead, she was planning on staying in her home town for a while, likely a few years while she goes back for her Masters.

But, the day after she saw me, I caught wind of her looking for work in the Seattle area, where I'll be moving. Why would she go from "I'm stuck where I'm at, and I'm not moving to Seattle" to looking for work in the Seattle area?


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

jeffsmith77 said:


> Alright, I might be reading too much into this (and give me a slap across the face if I am). The last time we saw each other, she said she wasn't looking for work in the Seattle area. Instead, she was planning on staying in her home town for a while, likely a few years while she goes back for her Masters.
> 
> But, the day after she saw me, I caught wind of her looking for work in the Seattle area, where I'll be moving. Why would she go from "I'm stuck where I'm at, and I'm not moving to Seattle" to looking for work in the Seattle area?


Perhaps to avoid giving you any false hope for reconciliation.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> Perhaps to avoid giving you any false hope for reconciliation.


I never thought of that... That really hurts, but it's a possibility.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

So, the latest small development is that she sent a request to add me back as a friend with her Nike Running profile. I created a profile to log my runs when I started running in late February, and she invited me to be a friend. But once she moved out, she removed me from all networking sites (Facebook, Nike Running, Spark People, etc). I wonder why the change of heart. And I'm also wondering if I did the right thing by accepting. I'm doing my best to go NC, but she really wanted me to run and get in shape, which was one of the bigger issues she had with me. But I'm also pulling a 180, and a part of me wants her to see I'm serious about getting in shape. Now, I'm logging more miles than she is, and it's nice that she can see this. Do you think this was the right move on my part?


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

I've had a change of heart concerning my move to Seattle. I've been met with a lot of resistance from employers, since I'll require a couple of weeks to move. Well, in this economy, there are tons of people with my skill set looking for work, and can start work tomorrow. Most employers know this, and have been honest with me.

So, it looks like I'll likely be staying in Portland. Which is fine, since this is my home, and my friends and family are here. Having the extra support right now is a good thing.

Later on I hear that my ex is looking for work in the Portland area. I'm assuming that it's for school as well, so she can get her Masters. I think that this could lead to the best chance of reconciliation, if that's even a possibility. We have a lot of mutual friends here, and I'm sure that we'll see each other more often. But, I'd have to be careful. I don't want to get my hopes up, and I don't want to get hurt seeing her over and over if there's not chance for us. Now that I've pulled a 180 and I feel amazing, and she gets to a better place in life, then maybe it could happen. Maybe not. I'm trying the nonchalance method here...


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

I've had a sudden shift in my attitude lately. For weeks, I've been feeling upbeat, positive, and excited for the future. I felt great. I've missed her more than I can say, but I felt happy aside from that.

Now, for the past four days, I've been angry. Not just a little steamed at the small things in life, but genuinely angry. Angry at her. Not necessarily for leaving me, but for the events around the separation. I feel like she was acting selfishly by giving us two months (and a total of maybe 7 counseling sessions) to turn things around. I feel like she isn't considering everything that's going on with me: I lost my job, my mom suddenly died just before Christmas, and I've been battling some depression for a good 6 months. So of course things aren't going to turn around right away, but she expected them to.

Normally I'm a pretty even tempered guy, and I can always look on the positive side of things. But lately, there's been this side of me that's shown up, and I don't like it. I've isolated myself from my friends and family, and I rarely go outside. I just sit at home alone, only my cats and my hate to keep me company.

This amount of anger, and it's consistency, is something that's new to me. If anyone has any advice, I'd love to hear it. I hate being so hateful.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

jeffsmith77 said:


> This amount of anger, and it's consistency, is something that's new to me. If anyone has any advice, I'd love to hear it. I hate being so hateful.


You're grieving the loss of your girlfriend. Stage one is denial and isolation. The good news is that you seem to have come through that stage. Now, you're in the anger stage. You're on your way to acceptance. :smthumbup:


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

The last time I saw my ex (which has been a few weeks now), things went well. Aside from the initial awkwardness, being the first time we've seen each other since the separation, things went really well. We laughed plenty and parted on a good note. With the exception of her sounding down when talking about her situation (being stuck in eastern Washington, being unemployed still...), the time spent together was fun. Afterwards, she texted me saying it was good to see me, and she's glad we can still be civil, and even friends. Our friendship is very important to her, she said.

We haven't spoken much since. I called her to let her know our neighbor passed away, and a few days later she called me to let me know her grandpa passed away. Both conversations were short.

Yesterday, I hear from a mutual friend, that my ex landed a part-time nursing job in eastern Washington a short time ago. I'm surprised, since I heard that she was looking for work in my town. Plus, she doesn't want to live out in eastern Washington, and she was looking forward to going back to school out here.

I understand that she is not obligated to tell me anything. I'm not expecting her to fill me in on the details of her life. But why is she still pushing me out? She says she's at peace with her decision to end the relationship, and she wants to be friends, but she tells everyone about her new job. Everyone, that is, but me.

Until now, she's been pretty open with me during the few times we've talked. After the break-up, she didn't say a word about her plans or what she was doing. And that was fine. Lately, she's been open, filling me in on pretty much everything going on in her life. The most important thing for her was to get working. Any thoughts as to why she decided not to tell me?


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## AnthonyC (May 3, 2011)

I am sorry to hear... Listening to your story reminds me my wife. She decided to call it quits with me 2 months ago. Only thing I can say is as horrible as we feel, things can always be worse. In your case, be thankful that this happened before you got married. In my case, my wife left me just under 2 years, now I am stuck in this 1 year separation before either of us can file for a divorce. But I am thankful that we do not have any children together. It's going to hurt for a while, but things will get better. Try not to resort to alcohol or drugs, you are in a crisis right now and that is not going to help anything. I caved last week and got completely plastered, thankfully by brother was there to hold me down, I swear if he was not there I would have ended up in a hospital or in jail or worse. Stay strong, Buddy stay strong
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

Sorry to hear of your troubles too, AnthonyC. Don't worry, I'm not giving in to alcohol, and I never touch drugs. Instead, I'm using this time to focus on improving myself. The time alone has given me time to reflect on myself, and discover what I want to change. Surprisingly enough, it's easier than you think.

I accept the fact that she left me, and I'm certain that I know why. It took me a while, but now it's clear as day. I've had many of my questions answered, but a few still remain. The big one now is why she's decided to leave me out of her life again. I'm still not sure why she won't come out and tell me that she's taken a job 4 hours away, instead of her initial plan of coming back to a town nearby. To go from being open to closing-off... I just don't understand why, and why now.


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## AnthonyC (May 3, 2011)

jeffsmith77 said:


> Sorry to hear of your troubles too, AnthonyC. Don't worry, I'm not giving in to alcohol, and I never touch drugs. Instead, I'm using this time to focus on improving myself. The time alone has given me time to reflect on myself, and discover what I want to change. Surprisingly enough, it's easier than you think.
> 
> I accept the fact that she left me, and I'm certain that I know why. It took me a while, but now it's clear as day. I've had many of my questions answered, but a few still remain. The big one now is why she's decided to leave me out of her life again. I'm still not sure why she won't come out and tell me that she's taken a job 4 hours away, instead of her initial plan of coming back to a town nearby. To go from being open to closing-off... I just don't understand why, and why now.


I hear you buddy. I don't understand either. We started seeing a marriage counseler 2 months before the separation, and we were seeing progress. Then I left on a business trip kissed her good bye, came back 5 days later, then she drops the separation on me. I've been better myself, hitting the gym often, doing some hatha yoga, and spending time with my friends. I think I know why she left as well, but all I have as of right now are theories. She is refusing to talk to me and has cut me off faster than a miracle blade slices through a tomato. The ***** of this situation is that as much as I feel that I am doing better, somehow the sadness, anger, frustration comes back out of the blue and hits you like a ton of bricks. 

On my way to see my folks know, I've been hiding this from them since the begining. I've decided to come clean, and see what happens. Keep me posted on your situation buddy... We both got kicked in the nuts, and left on our own to get back on our knees. Whatever happens we ll still be standing in the end. (I just wish this would pass by faster so that I can move on with my life)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

I'm glad to hear that you're taking steps to look after yourself AnthonyC. It's easy to fall into the rut of thinking about why our partners left, but in the end, it doesn't matter. They chose to leave. The pieces may come together for you, like they have for me, but I was only able to get a clear picture once my mind started to calm down.

My ex says she wants to be friends, and the last time I saw her, she was making some plans for the summer and wanted to include me along with other friends of ours. She also told me all about her life and what her plans are. To go from that openness to closing me out has hurt me, but I shouldn't focus on why she changed her attitude. Whether she realized she needs to heal more, thinks I need more time, or if she's thinking about leaving me out of her life forever, it doesn't matter. The ball is in her court, and I'm letting her take control of the situation.


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## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

hardest thing I did after D-day was take the bottle and dump it down the sink, Working on me ahs been easy but it was very very hard to get rid of the "easy answer" glad I did though don't regret it. Though I do miss the 20$ I spent on the bottle bought it like 2 days before d-day hadn't even cracked it yet.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

Good to hear Niceguy. Drinking or drugs may feel like they help in the short term, but it's a dangerous thing to rely on when we're feeling down and vulnerable.


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## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

yeah I had an alcohol problem when I was younger and I knew if I took a drink from that bottle I wouldn't stop. And yes I still drank on occasion even though I know I have a problem I just didn't drink when I "needed" to drink. If I felt I needed a drink instead of enjoying a drink I wouldn't drink but wine with dinner or the occasional party night would still happen.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

Something unexpected happened. Although it's minor, it left me scratching my head as to her intentions and wondering what to do. If you recall, when my ex left, she removed me from all social networking sites along with all joint accounts. Basically anything we shared. She and I talked after the breakup, and she was very closed off, not talking about herself at all. The next day she calls again (for a few loose ends) and starts to open up a little. A month later I see her, and she's an open book. After our first face-to-face since the breakup, we've only spoken twice, for a few minutes apiece, only because my neighbor passed away (who my ex loved very much) and because her grandfather passed away. For the last few weeks, it's been silent. Apparently she got her first nursing job, but didn't tell me.

Today, she sent me an invitation to be friends again on Facebook. I know, it's only Facebook, but I wonder why, and why now? She doesn't post much to her account. Is she curious as to what I'm doing? Is this another small step at attempting to be friends? She must know that I still have feelings for her. You don't end a happy 7 year relationship (the last few months weren't) and only feel friendship two months after the relationship is over. Any thoughts? Do you think I should accept, or ignore? Thanks for hearing me out over these trivial things...


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## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

Not in the best place to answer but all things considered you deserve to know the why at least I feel you do. And you have to accept the why. If it is just because she wants to be able to know whats going on in your life you have to accept it as just that it might be more could be more but you have to treat it as just that. It does sound like she is reaching out though.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

Niceguy13 said:


> If it is just because she wants to be able to know whats going on in your life you have to accept it as just that it might be more could be more but you have to treat it as just that. It does sound like she is reaching out though.


I don't know if many of our friends are telling her what's going on in my life. When she left me, I was without direction in life and wholly dependent on her (a result, I believe, of the depression I was feeling over the past year). The last time she saw me, I was 10-15 lbs. thinner, I was happy, and I was making plans for my own future. I was finally going after my goals. It could be that seeing me like this was a surprise to her, and now she would like to know where I'm heading.

No matter what her intentions are, I take it as she's reaching out to me a bit. A part of me wants to accept her Facebook invite so she can see how well I'm doing. I'm going to continue to post updates for my friends to see; I won't be hiding anything if I accept my ex's invitation. I only post info from my daily runs, updates on my job hunt, and updates on my research for an MBA program.

The downside of all of this is I'll get a little peek into her life. I still love her, and I miss her. Seeing posts from her, showing her living her life without me, might bring me down. But my life has completely turned around, and everyone sees it. I want her to get a glimpse of it too.


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## mossimo (May 11, 2011)

Try to resolve all issues. Talk it through with her so it can clearly be seen by both where it went wrong.

Communication, take her out somewhere to discuss.

:O)


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

mossimo said:


> Try to resolve all issues. Talk it through with her so it can clearly be seen by both where it went wrong.
> 
> Communication, take her out somewhere to discuss.
> 
> :O)


Well, that's a problem. She's 240 miles away, and won't be moving back to my area for a while (a few months, maybe).

I think that discussing where the relationship went south isn't the best idea. I'm almost 100% certain of what happened between us, and I want to show her I'm moving on. Talking about us might appear as though I'm still consumed with thoughts of her. She wants a strong, independent, driven man, which I was in the past, and have become once again.


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## AnthonyC (May 3, 2011)

One thing I have learned is that you cannot pretend to alright when you are not. I think facebook is a very bad idea, you will end up facebook stalking her, that I promise you. You need to take the time for yourself, and finish your grieving process. As my Minister said, you need to treat this as if you are grieving a death... or in our cases, grieving the death of our spousal relationship.

Here are the stages of grief. 

1. Denial and Isolation.
2. Anger.
3. Bargaining.
4. Depression.
5. Acceptance.

I personally think I am bouncing between #2 and #4. When I think I am getting better, the slightest thing such as someone mentioning her name to me, or seeing something that reminds me of her... immediately has an effect on me and either sends me into an angry frenzy or depression.

I feel that you are in the same situation, I am not saying stop talking to her forever, but maybe just for now. Do not jump into a situation now where you think you are fine with this, when you are most likely not.

Stay strong Buddy and do whatever you do best that keeps you sane.


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## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

2 and 5 all the way here


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

AnthonyC said:


> you will end up facebook stalking her, that I promise you.


Sure, I'll take a look at her page, if I accept her invitation. I'm not too concerned about it, since she rarely ever posts anything. I talked with a mutual friend yesterday, and she was a little confused about my ex's intentions. She told me that my ex still doesn't post anything, just the occasional info about her weekly runs. On the other hand, I'm pretty active on Facebook. It could be my ex is curious about what I'm up to.



AnthonyC said:


> You need to take the time for yourself, and finish your grieving process.


I agree, and I've made huge strides these past few weeks. I don't stay up all night thinking about her, I don't break down in tears, I'm completely focused on my personal goals, and I can talk about her without diving into depression. Don't get me wrong, I still love her and I miss her, but I feel that I've come to terms with the breakup.

That being said, here's my dilemma: I still love her, and I'm not sure how getting another peek into her life will affect me. I think I'll be able to handle it. She'll respect my feelings, I know. Our couples counselor, and many of our friends, think that she still has some feelings for me. It's likely that she's buried them deep, so she can focus entirely on herself right now. If you look at the events leading up to the separation: we were madly in love, but ran into a bump in the road. Life became extremely difficult, with my mom suddenly dying, I lost my job, my ex couldn't find a nursing job and financial independence was her #1 goal, we were dipping into the wedding fund to stay afloat, our house was in the middle of a remodel, etc. All of this happened at once. True, she was doubting her feelings for me for a while (we seemed to be going different directions in life), but counseling seemed to help. Toward the end, she said she was very happy with me, and after a few weeks of counseling sessions, she told our counselor that she didn't think we needed any other sessions for a while. A couple of days later, my ex put in another deposit for the wedding. And less than 3 weeks later, she leaves.

Since then, I'll pulled a 180. I've lost 15 lbs., I run and exercise 6 days a week, and I'm going back to school for my MBA. I feel amazing. I'm an improved version of who I was. Many of the issues she had with me now seem irrelevant (my lack of physical activity, my lack of drive). I still feel a sliver of hope for the two of us, especially now that her life seems to have settled down a bit (from what I hear) and I've done so much for myself, but I'm willing to accept the permanent separation.

So the pros and cons are:
- Accept the invitation and add a small line of communication between us. This may eventually lead to some face to face time. I'm definitely not the man she left, and I want her to see that.
- It could be that she only feels friendship toward me, and that will never change. I could be taking a gamble and end up getting hurt. I think it's worth the risk, but I'm not sure.


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## AnthonyC (May 3, 2011)

Jeff, here is my 2 cents. 

1) Why do you want her to see that you are not the man she left? 

Ultimately, we are who we are. We can change our behavior and habits, but in the end, fundamentally we do not change as individuals. Myself, I do wish that my wife could see me now. I myself am in the best physical shape that I have been in years, and have changed many things in my life, for the better I think. My love for my wife is unconditional, it does not matter what she looks like overtime, or how successful or driven she is. Unfortunately for me, that is not the same case with her. We deserve to be with women who love US UNCONDITIONALLY, and despite our flaws see us for what we truly are... Good Men. 

2) Completely your call on whether or not you want to be friends, but to me... it is too soon. I made the decision to spend a lifetime with her, and now she has made the decision to end our relationship. This fact I still find hard to accept. To me a marriage is sacred, and for her to throw it all away has be perplexed and left in a state of absolute turmoil. Just be careful here buddy, you have to do what is right for you.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

Thanks AnthonyC.



AnthonyC said:


> 1) Why do you want her to see that you are not the man she left?


For the past year, I haven't been myself. I worked 65+ hours a week at a job I didn't like, my boss would pull me in his office twice a week to shout at me, essentially telling me how inadequate I am at my job. My ex and I were in a long distance relationship, and I saw her every other weekend. And when I saw her, she worked on her homework, and I worked on my work. We had absolutely no time to be us.

All of this wore me down. I isolated myself, lost my drive, stopped going after my goals, and was in a state of depression. I didn't realize how down I was until lately. For the past year, I was not myself. My friends saw it, but I didn't. With this time alone, I've had time to heal myself, and get some counseling. Now, I feel like I'm back to the old "me", only better. I'm thinner, stronger, and more driven than I ever have been.



lost_&_trying said:


> 2) Completely your call on whether or not you want to be friends, but to me... it is too soon. I made the decision to spend a lifetime with her, and now she has made the decision to end our relationship. This fact I still find hard to accept. To me a marriage is sacred, and for her to throw it all away has be perplexed and left in a state of absolute turmoil. Just be careful here buddy, you have to do what is right for you.


Yeah, I'm still on the fence. She texted me last night saying she's going to be in town this weekend, and wants to pick up a plant of hers she left in the backyard. I told her to come by anytime, the plant is still in the yard. I don't know if I want to be here when she shows up, but it seems that she wants to see me. It's strange how she went from being distant to suddenly "Let's be friends on Facebook, and I want to see you in a couple days."


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## AnthonyC (May 3, 2011)

Do whatever is best for you buddy. I wish i knew what the right answers were for yourself, and myself. I hope all the best for you.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

I decided to hold-off on the Facebook invitation for a while. Whether she just wants to see what I've been up to, if she wants to start the friendship, or if she misses me, it doesn't matter. It's only been 2 months, and I think I need more time.

I still don't know if I'll see her this weekend or not. It should be a brief visit, and things went well the last time she saw me. I still don't feel any anxiety or excitement about seeing her. I may just wait until she calls and see how the conversation goes to make my decision.


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## AnthonyC (May 3, 2011)

Good for you Buddy. I think you are doing the right thing.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

AnthonyC said:


> Good for you Buddy. I think you are doing the right thing.


Thanks for the encouragement. I spoke with my counselor yesterday and a mutual friend (who also happens to have a background in counseling and knows my ex well), and they both seem to think that the main reason my ex wants to be friends on Facebook so she can take a look at what I've been doing, since we don't have any other form of communication. I'm sure there are other reasons as well. While a big part of me does want her to have a peek into what I'm doing, since I'm doing so well, I think seeing the occasional post from her might hurt (this doubt about how I'll feel is why I'm waiting). Granted, her posts are infrequent, and are usually a link to a funny video she found, I think it's time I took a little control over the situation.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

Ok, another update. A mutual friend called to say hi, and mentioned she saw my ex for lunch today. My ex apparently talked only about herself, and didn't mention anyone else, or ask any questions about anyone. Even our friend, who recently became pregnant, her husband is recovering from shoulder surgery, and they're shopping for their first house, didn't get asked any questions. Evidently, my ex went out partying last night and danced/drank with other guys. I'm not too surprised, I'm assuming she misses the attention, and is acting like many of those I know who've just left a long term relationship.

Our friend also told me that she didn't get the impression that my ex is thinking about me at all; she's too focused on herself right now. Our friend said that she doesn't feel that my ex cares to see me at all this weekend. However, my ex texted me a short while ago, asking if we could meet for lunch tomorrow. I was pretty surprised. I replied that I already had plans (I really don't), and she said "K, maybe next time." I'm assuming she's still planning on picking up a plant she left in my yard, and I told her she can come by anytime to pick it up. I've decided that I won't be here when she comes by, I think it's still too soon to see her.

Now here's what is really puzzling. My ex was going to make a trip to the Shane Co. (a jewelry store). I bought her engagement ring and we bought our wedding rings from there over 5 years ago. When she moved out, she asked if she could keep her engagement ring (two Tahitian pearls with many small diamonds, not your typical engagement ring). She loves the ring, and I told her it was a gift, so she could keep it. However, we kept each others wedding rings. So, why would she go to the Shane Co.? I don't think that she's trying to return my wedding ring, since she bought it so long ago. She used to make trips to the Shane Co. to get her engagement ring cleaned, but she wouldn't be wearing the engagement ring, so why have it cleaned? She doesn't have any money, so she's not shopping for new jewelry. Was she trying to get the value of my ring to sell it (but she should know how much she paid for it)? Any thoughts?

Going from not contacting me at all to suddenly inviting me back to be a friend on Facebook, followed 2 days later by "let's get together for lunch", and now a trip to the Shane Co... I'm so confused.


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## hesnothappy (Mar 5, 2011)

I think your modified 180 is working in your favor ;o)


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## Lolabells (May 10, 2011)

So i was reading the whole thing about her wanting to befriend you on facebook. lol let me just say that its like a horrible idea! i am the "facebook stalker" lol he doesnt know it.. but Im on it all the time.. its creepy lol but at times i feel like if i see whats going on infront of me i can accept things, even though everyone tells me ignorance is bliss. But idk man i think you're doing good! i wish i could do a 180! keep it up!!


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

Lolabells said:


> i am the "facebook stalker" lol he doesnt know it.. but Im on it all the time..


If I decided to accept the Facebook friendship, sure, I'd probably look at her page, but not everyday. Like I mentioned before, she doesn't really post anything. I do. So it makes me wonder why she wants to be Facebook friends again. I would assume so she can see what I'm doing. But that's not going to happen.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

My ex came to town, and left. Before she came to town, she said she wanted to stop by to pick up a plant she left here. I told her I have a busy weekend, but she can come into the yard to get the plant anytime. She also tried to add me back as a friend on Facebook (I ignored the invitation). Then, when she got into town, she asked if we could get together for lunch. Well, I told her I already had lunch plans. The next day, she sends me a text saying she's coming over to get the plant. I told her I was away from home, but she could help herself.

I don't know why she wants to see me and contact me all of a sudden. She went without contacting me for weeks, and now this. It's nice to know she's out of town, so I can get back to focusing on me, and not worrying about seeing her. Why the sudden interest to get in touch with me, and maybe even see me?


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## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

Regret


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## hesnothappy (Mar 5, 2011)

To get some validation that you are not over her yet. You played your cards just right ;o)


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

Niceguy: I wish this were true, but I'm not certain that it is. Over the weekend here, she went out to bars with her girl friends and flirted/danced with other guys. Surprisingly, this didn't bother me. I'm assuming because I know she doesn't want to date anyone right now.

There may be a part of her that is starting to regret her decision, but I'm not looking for any signs.



hesnothappy said:


> To get some validation that you are not over her yet. You played your cards just right ;o)


Thanks, I'm proud of how I handled the situation. Still, when I came home and saw the plant was gone in the backyard, it really had an impact on me. Knowing she was here.

I don't know, getting some validation that I'm not over her yet could be a part of her motive. But why would she need to see this? To know that I'm still an option for her?


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## staircase (May 16, 2011)

How are you handling the plant situation? My ex has to come get a framed photo that is really important to him. I wish I could send it without it costing a million dollars (it's really big). I don't want him within 10 miles of me. I am terrified I'll just crumble.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

staircase said:


> How are you handling the plant situation? My ex has to come get a framed photo that is really important to him. I wish I could send it without it costing a million dollars (it's really big). I don't want him within 10 miles of me. I am terrified I'll just crumble.


It's been hard for a couple of reasons. It's another reminder that she's out of my life. Knowing she was at my house was harder than I thought it would be. Plus, she's suddenly opening up channels of communication, and I don't know why. Suddenly I feel that she's completely moved on from me, and she's only interested in being a friend. I don't know what happened to me. I was doing so well, even feeling some hope for the two of us, then after this weekend I feel like all hope is lost.


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## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

Oh wasn't saying it was regret to that level she may not even realize it was regret. She is making continous efforts to "check" on you though which says at least at the subconcious level she has regrets.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

Niceguy13 said:


> Oh wasn't saying it was regret to that level she may not even realize it was regret. She is making continous efforts to "check" on you though which says at least at the subconcious level she has regrets.


Now that I've spoken with my counselor, I think that my ex wanted to see me because she wants the attention. She's showing signs of losing her self esteem, and now she's looking for attention of any kind. She's always talking about herself, she's going out with friends to meet guys (just to flirt, not to date thank God). I think my ex wanted to see someone who loves her.

Granted, there could also be other reasons why she wanted to see me. There probably are, but only she knows.


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## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

those probaly are the surface reasons I agree. Its still regret but not being recoknized for it, shame to really does sound like it wont hit her till its to late. Her loss though you will make some woman truley happy who is more sure of herself.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

Niceguy13 said:


> those probaly are the surface reasons I agree. Its still regret but not being recoknized for it, shame to really does sound like it wont hit her till its to late. Her loss though you will make some woman truley happy who is more sure of herself.


It might hit her tomorrow, it might never happen. I don't know. But our friends and our counselor sees what she's going through as a phase. She shut down, she lost all her confidence, she ran away from her problems, and now she's starving for attention. I hope she realizes that what she's doing isn't healthy.

The fact that this isn't like her, and that this is a phase, is the only reason I have the slightest bit of hope for us. I hate that I still feel any hope at all.


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