# A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night Out



## ReformedHubby

My wife's life is typical suburbia. She has several groups of friends the library mom's, the karate moms, the church mom's, the workout moms etc.. I've gotten to know all of them and to me they all seem as normal as pumpkin pie. Loving responsible wives and mothers. Well one of the groups decided to do a girl's weekend away this weekend, and my opinion has changed a bit. 

After looking at the photos they posted I'm glad my wife didn't go. They were only at their destination for a short time before the ill advised facebook pictures started popping up. My wife showed me a picture with a look of disbelief on her face. 

These moms that I thought were so wholesome were twerking on one another. Also based on the photos they were drinking a lot and it wasn't even late yet. I found it both humorous and disturbing at the same time. 

The more I thought about it though the more I became disturbed by it. If they are grinding on each other now what will they be doing at midnight? Why would they post this pic when they have daughters and husbands at home that would see it? Lastly, they are too damn old to be twerking!

Perhaps my thoughts on this are over the top but if my wife posted pics like that I would throw the kids in the minivan and tell them we are going to go get mommy. Sometimes people need to be saved from themselves.

Yes, I know it was just a picture, but to me it showed that some of these neanderthals around here might have a point. There very well might be something to this whole group think thing they were ranting about. I can't imagine that any of these women individually would think what they were doing was a good idea. They didn't even have good enough judgement to realize that posting the pics was a bad idea. I can only imagine how freaked out their husbands were by the pics. 

So my question is, is my reaction just TAM induced paranoia or do I have a point? I will add that my wife after seeing the photos feels like she really didn't know them as well as she thought she did. But, perhaps she is being too judgmental to.


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## okeydokie

Can I see the pictures?


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## I Notice The Details

When my wife goes out with the girlfriends....they are always very TAME. Sometimes, I WISH they would let loose a little more and she would come home and jump my bones or hear about some new sex move that she wants to try...but it never happens. 

In your case, I wonder if these Moms were just capturing something outrageous and extreme just to get a reaction out of others? Wait and see how these same ladies describe their night out later to your wife. I also suspect if they were all drinking early, it probably turned into an early to bed night. 

Keep us posted...


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## samyeagar

I Notice The Details said:


> When my wife goes out with the girlfriends....they are always very TAME. Sometimes, *I WISH they would let loose a little more and she would come home and jump my bones* or hear about some new sex move that she wants to try...but it never happens.
> 
> In your case, I wonder if these Moms were just capturing something outrageous and extreme just to get a reaction out of others? Wait and see how these same ladies describe their night out later to your wife. I also suspect if they were all drinking early, it probably turned into an early to bed night.
> 
> Keep us posted...


I like that thought, but I don't like the idea that grinding around with some other guy got her there and she is just using me to get off...


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## ReformedHubby

samyeagar said:


> I like that thought, but I don't like the idea that grinding around with some other guy got her there and she is just using me to get off...


I concur, I don't mind my wife letting her hair down but I should be the dude she is getting freaky with on the dance floor, and I certainly would not approve of her putting on this type of show for the enjoyment of other men.

But, in their defense they weren't grinding on guys they were only doing it to each other. Even with that said if I were a single dude that saw this behavior I would only assume that these ladies are ready to partay. 

To the poster that requested a picture I can't do that. They posted it but I assume it was only meant for their social media friends.


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## Caribbean Man

Let me see if I can put this into context.

Firstly, I live in the Caribbean, and this new " twerking " craze that has recently hit the US has been here , well forever. It is a way we dance and express ourselves. The term we use is 
" wineing ."
Yes, its very sexually suggestive , but it is what it has always been, a form of art or cultural expression. Both men & women of every age and background do it and alcohol is not always involved, just sweet music.
It is the way we dance.
I suspect that this dance came from the Caribbean to the US, via many of the US pop stars , celebs and rappers who come here for fun and to party.

Here's a small clip of a street carnival party / parade;

Trinidad Carnival- Harts 2013

Observe there are people of every age , male and female.

Here's another vid of Rhianna grinding and bumping her lady parts at a similar street party in Barbados a few weeks ago;

Rhianna At Crop Over, Barbados.

Just to put everything in context, this type of dance is very normal down here,it's how we party.
Women grind on women, women grind on men and so on.
Some couples might agree before to only dance with each other, some might go to a party with a group of friends and agree not to grind on strangers, only grind with those in the group.
And still some might just grind on anybody, male or female.

However I can fully understand the cultural shock this type of dancing would bring into a society that is not accustomed to it.It is a very sexually expressive type of dancing.
My wife is not the partying type , but I remember when I was single and hitting the clubs, my date and I would hang out with a group and only dance like that, with those in the group, male and female. She danced with other men, I danced with other women.

I can fully understand why it would be disturbing to a husband at home and his wife out there grinding on a strange man in a club under the influence of alcohol.
However I wouldn't have a problem if my wife did this with ONLY women in her all girls group , if I wasn't around..
I see it as a way of " letting her hair down ", and expressing herself in a safe environment with other RESPONSIBLE women.

But it's better to be around your wife or SO and enjoying some fun. It is a very subtle form of sexual foreplay and the rewards are usually reaped in bed immediately after.
However if either partner is not present, there should be a level of caution.
Things can head southwards, very fast.


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## ReformedHubby

I Notice The Details said:


> I also suspect if they were all drinking early, it probably turned into an early to bed night.


You make a valid point. When I was in my 20s I could drink early and still go out. Nowadays if I crack open a beer before Monday night football kickoff I'll end up waking up to infomercials and not knowing at what I point I dozed off. For whatever reason as I've aged drinking just makes me tired. The buzz doesn't feel the same as it did in my youth. Which is why I drink a lot less now.


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## Catherine602

How do you think the wives would have reacted if their husbands posted similar pics with random women at a bar? That's something their husbands should ask them. People often don't think of the feelings of others until they get a taste of their own stupidity. 

Their husbands should say nothing. Go out the next week and post pic of them grinding on women. Then come home and still say nothing. I bet wifee will stay home to stoke the home fires. 

But then again, I am not a good person and two wrongs blah blah.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## zookeeper

It's not Neanderthal, it's actually a pretty good policy for married people to avoid such situations. Not every member of the group has good intentions. Some want to stir up trouble and make problems for others. Misery loves company, as they say.

I choose my friends carefully. I have had to break ties with some who were not healthy for me or my marriage. My wife has had worse luck with friends. One in particular advised her to hide her spending from me and offered to help her buy things and "launder" the transaction. Forntunately, she told me about this and their fri dship fizzled shortly after. Another who was going through a divorce seemed to be trying to recruit my wife into the divorce club. 

Girls nights out can be a great thing for a marriage, if the group consists of the right people. If even one is a bad apple, they can really take advantage of someone in a vulnerable position. Particularly when alcohol is involved. It's a sad reality that there are people out there who make sport of manipulating others into bad situations. 

This is not so much a gender thing as a character thing. Some women cheat at girls nights out. Some men cheat at bachelor parties. What they have in common is low character. People with an intact moral compass are much less likely to do the wrong thing, but it is always better to avoid such situations entirely.


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## ReformedHubby

Caribbean Man said:


> Let me see if I can put this into context.
> 
> Firstly, I live in the Caribbean, and this new " twerking " craze that has recently hit the US has been here , well forever. It is a way we dance and express ourselves. The term we use is
> " wineing ."
> Yes, its very sexually suggestive , but it is what it has always been, a form of art or cultural expression. Both men & women of every age and background do it and alcohol is not always involved, just sweet music.
> It is the way we dance.
> I suspect that this dance came from the Caribbean to the US, because many of the US pop stars , celebs and rappers come here for fun and to party.
> 
> Here's a small clip of a street carnival party / parade;
> 
> Trinidad Carnival 2013 - Tribe Experience.
> 
> Observe there are people of every age , male and female.
> 
> Here's another vid of Rhianna grinding and bumping her lady parts at a similar street party in Barbados a few weeks ago;
> 
> Rhianna At Crop Over, Barbados.
> 
> Just to put everything in context, this type of dance is very normal down here,it's how we party.
> Women grind on women, women grind on men and so on.
> Some couples might agree before to only dance with each other, some might go to a party with a group of friends and agree not to grind on strangers, only grind with those in the group.
> And still some might just grind on anybody, male or female.
> 
> However I can fully understand the cultural shock this type of dancing would bring into a society that is not accustomed to it.It is a very sexually expressive type of dancing.
> My wife is not the partying type , but I remember when I was single and hitting the clubs, my date and I would hang out with a group and only dance like that, with those in the group, male and female. She danced with other men, I danced with other women.
> I can fully understand why it would be disturbing to a husband at home and his wife out there grinding on a strange man in a club under the influence of alcohol.
> However I wouldn't have a problem if my wife did this with ONLY women in her all girls group , if I wasn't around..
> I see it as a way of " letting her hair down ", and expressing herself in a safe environment with other RESPONSIBLE women.
> 
> But it's better to be around your wife or So in times like these, because things can head southwards, very fast.


Well..... I didn't want to touch on this aspect in my original post but some of what you said is why my wife was disappointed. My wife and I are both black americans that grew up in the south and twerking was just normal dancing to us. 

Had my wife been there its highly likely that she would have been a little offended for two reasons. One, they probably weren't doing it right, and the other in the back of her mind she may have thought they were making fun of her. 

One of the reasons why I was so shocked by the images is because I highly doubt that any of these woman even knew what it was until recently. So to me it represents a drastic departure from the norm for them. Also, I can't speak for the Caribbean but in general this style of dancing is really more for young women around my way. 

All I know is that this type of dancing is very sexual in nature. That coupled with booze and husbands not there could equal trouble. Why not test those new twerking "skills" out on a guy to see if you really have it down?

Twerking is powerful stuff if its new to you, and great power power requires great responsibility


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## ReformedHubby

JustHer said:


> Caribbean man, I understand what you are saying about your culture. I know you said this but: the problem is, it is not our culture or history. These "grinding" moves have not been around for a long time and are not a way we express ourselves here.


This is basically what I said in my reply to CM. Leave the twerking to the professionals!

Okay, I'll be serious now. In all honesty my concern is if you aren't accustomed to the type of attention this kind of dancing can bring you as well as the sexual chemistry that can happen when you dance this way with someone of the opposite sex you could be playing with fire.


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## TiggyBlue

Catherine602 said:


> How do you think the wives would have reacted if their husbands posted similar pics with random women at a bar? That's something their husbands should ask them. People often don't think of the feelings of others until they get a taste of their own stupidity.
> 
> Their husbands should say nothing. Go out the next week and post pic of them grinding on women. Then come home and still say nothing. I bet wifee will stay home to stoke the home fires.
> 
> But then again, I am not a good person and two wrongs blah blah.....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


They were twerking with their female friends though not men.


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## Thor

ReformedHubby said:


> Lastly, they are too damn old to be twerking!


In all seriousness, this is just wrong. People are only old if they act old. People even in their 80's should be out skiing, ocean kayaking, dancing, twerking, having sex, and enjoying life. There's nothing wrong with adults of any age having fun.

The rest of the situation you describe brings up some worries. I agree that doing this on a girls weekend away and posting the pictures on fb isn't good judgment.


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## hookares

The beauty of being single is that you can pretty much do as you please and not worry about how others feel about it.
But, in the end, you still have to live with yourself.


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## ReformedHubby

Thor said:


> In all seriousness, this is just wrong. People are only old if they act old. People even in their 80's should be out skiing, ocean kayaking, dancing, twerking, having sex, and enjoying life. There's nothing wrong with adults of any age having fun.


I still stand by my too old for twerking comment. Old people can ski, kayak, have sex etc. But twerking? Ever hear about the "old man in the club". Nobody wants to be that guy. The problem is once you become that guy no one will tell you. There are indeed some things that just aren't age appropriate. 

I am jacking my own thread here but lets look at an attractive woman over 40 like Jennifer Anniston. Would I be turned on by her twerking. Nope. Not a bit. There are just some things that look silly on you if you do them when you're older.


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## Caribbean Man

FrenchFry said:


> Close!
> 
> Twerking has been part of the bounce music scene out of New Orleans for at least 20 years, with part of the origin coming from the "Traditional African" dances that caught on with (especially hip hop) dancers in the early 90's.
> 
> A brief history of twerking.
> 
> So, it hasn't been here forever...but it's been here for most of my life at least.


Yes.
It's basically a modified version of an African/ Brazilian dance form.

Funny thing about it is that although it's highly sexual, it can be done in a " decent" way. It all depends on the intensity between the two partners. For example , two females doing it with each other is mainly for fun, not sexual excitement. 
If a male and female are doing it and the woman starts turning up the intensity and pulling the man closer or pushing her hips/ derriere back against his hip movements, then obviously its an invitation.
It is also done male and female for fun and not sexual excitement. So if they both just embrace / grind lightly , then it's all good, no sexual intent.
Some women use it to give themselves a sexual high , by teasing men, but the " rule of engagement" is that women only can initiate and make contact with men. Men cannot be the aggressor in this type of dancing.
For eg;
Many times I've seen scantily clad women down here in our Carnivals " twerking" / grinding / wineing up against uniformed police officers who are on duty to control the crowds.Of course the officer cannot respond, so it's actually a sexual power play by the women doing it. They see it as fun.
So technically, how it is done down here, it's basically
" safe " because men cannot start grinding on women , they would get thrown out of the club , or even face arrest if she complains.

That's why I said in my initial post that couples /persons usually have agreements _before_ going to these types of parties of exactly what their boundaries would be.

All girl crews = Dancing amongst themselves.
Singles = Looking for partners
All male crews = Wolves looking for willing sheep.


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## Caribbean Man

French Fry

Have a look at this Coca Cola TV commercial featuring one of our Carnivals.
But I want you to focus on the lady in red and how teases the three guys truing to get her attention.
lol,
Basically that's how the teasing by the women is done.

Coca Cola Trinidad Carnival,Share The Feeling.


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## TiggyBlue

ReformedHubby said:


> I still stand by my too old for twerking comment. Old people can ski, kayak, have sex etc. But twerking? Ever hear about the "old man in the club". Nobody wants to be that guy. The problem is once you become that guy no one will tell you. There are indeed some things that just aren't age appropriate.
> 
> I am jacking my own thread here but lets look at an attractive woman over 40 like Jennifer Anniston. Would I be turned on by her twerking. Nope. Not a bit. There are just some things that look silly on you if you do them when you're older.


That is just a opinion though, it doesn't really hold any relevance to what other's should/shouldn't do.


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## Faithful Wife

mmmm....twerking....


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## Fozzy

Caribbean Man said:


> Yes.
> It's basically a modified version of an African/ Brazilian dance form.
> 
> Funny thing about it is that although it's highly sexual, it can be done in a " decent" way. It all depends on the intensity between the two partners. For example , two females doing it with each other is mainly for fun, not sexual excitement.
> If a male and female are doing it and the woman starts turning up the intensity and pulling the man closer or pushing her hips/ derriere back against his hip movements, then obviously its an invitation.
> It is also done male and female for fun and not sexual excitement. So if they both just embrace / grind lightly , then it's all good, no sexual intent.
> Some women use it to give themselves a sexual high , by teasing men, but the " rule of engagement" is that women only can initiate and make contact with men. Men cannot be the aggressor in this type of dancing.
> For eg;
> Many times I've seen scantily clad women down here in our Carnivals " twerking" / grinding / wineing up against uniformed police officers who are on duty to control the crowds.Of course the officer cannot respond, so it's actually a sexual power play by the women doing it. They see it as fun.
> So technically, how it is done down here, it's basically
> " safe " because men cannot start grinding on women , they would get thrown out of the club , or even face arrest if she complains.
> 
> That's why I said in my initial post that couples /persons usually have agreements _before_ going to these types of parties of exactly what their boundaries would be.
> 
> All girl crews = Dancing amongst themselves.
> Singles = Looking for partners
> All male crews = Wolves looking for willing sheep.


I've had this discussion with my wife several times. "It's JUST dancing" she says. Nope, sorry. Maybe it's just my perspective as an overprotective father of three girls, but when a gal is grinding her butt into some guy's crotch, it might be just dancing for her, but it AIN'T just dancing for him.


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## Maricha75

Fozzy said:


> I've had this discussion with my wife several times. "It's JUST dancing" she says. Nope, sorry. Maybe it's just my perspective as an overprotective father of three girls, but when a gal is grinding her butt into some guy's crotch, it might be just dancing for her, but it AIN'T just dancing for him.


It's not just your perspective, Fozzy. Mother of one daughter, two sons, and I completely agree with you!


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## norajane

ReformedHubby said:


> I still stand by my too old for twerking comment. Old people can ski, kayak, have sex etc. But twerking? Ever hear about the "old man in the club". Nobody wants to be that guy. The problem is once you become that guy no one will tell you. There are indeed some things that just aren't age appropriate.
> 
> I am jacking my own thread here but lets look at an attractive woman over 40 like Jennifer Anniston. Would I be turned on by her twerking. Nope. Not a bit. There are just some things that look silly on you if you do them when you're older.


But it's fun! For a bunch of women in their 40's who don't get out much, it's fun! And it doesn't mean they're trying to turn anyone else on, just to have some fun with the girls. Dancing is fun! 

Damn. I'm 45 and I sure hope to be twerking and whatever-ing as long as my legs can hold me up and my butt can move from side to side. I'm not dead yet and I don't give a crap what anyone else thinks if they think I'm over the hill and too old to have fun. I'll hold on to my_ joie de vive_, thanks.

They weren't doing anything wrong. They were doing some dirty dancing with their girl friends. They probably will go home and try it on hubby - look what I learned how to do last weekend, honey! 

Anyway, your wife was as horrified as you, so you don't really have anything to worry about, do you?


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## Faithful Wife

There should be a video..."How to Twerk For Each Other"...and a wife and husband can learn this valuable skill together.


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## Maricha75

FrenchFry said:


> JSYK.
> 
> Twerking isn't grinding on a person. Grinding is rubbing your butt/body against a person, no coordination required.
> 
> Twerking is bouncing your butt/hips rhythmically, either both cheeks together or one at a time This can be done against a person but is most effectively done solo.
> 
> ~*the more you know*~


Oh! Is that what it.... 
Yea, still doesn't change my mind about it.


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## ReformedHubby

Caribbean Man said:


> Yes.
> It's basically a modified version of an African/ Brazilian dance form.


Ahhhh, brazilian dance. Anybody old enough to remember the "forbidden dance" aka the Lambada. It all of sudden became mainstream during my childhood. They even made a god awful movie about it. Sigh, I forsee twerking becoming mainstream.


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## Caribbean Man

FrenchFry said:


> JSYK.
> 
> Twerking isn't grinding on a person. Grinding is rubbing your butt/body against a person, no coordination required.
> 
> Twerking is bouncing your butt/hips rhythmically, either both cheeks together or one at a time This can be done against a person but is most effectively done solo.
> 
> ~*the more you know*~


Yes.
It is basically done by women to as a means of enjoyment or a kind of * acceptable * mild ,female sexual exhibitionism .
To a group of 40 something yr olds , its just a way of expressing their sexuality with each other in a safe environment. 

I think people are sceptical because they think its " vulgar." But the environment it's done in , negates that. In a club , party or Carnival_ is_ the place for twerking, not in the bank , supermarket or Walmart.

The only issue I see is knowing one's boundaries and enforcing them, and there's always safety in numbers..

Being married to an East Indian woman of Hindu background [ family Hindu], quite a few times I've been invited to a celebration that takes place one week before a traditional Hindu wedding.
It's called a " _Maticoor_ " basically the Hindu female equivalent of a Bachelor party.
The ritual basically involves young women ,mature women and the bride to be drinking heavily and dancing very suggestively to the pulsating rhythms of drums. If you all think " twerking" is bad, then you guys would probably freak if you'all see this. 

These women dance suggestively and gyrate themselves imitating different sexual positions of a man and woman , demonstrating to the bride to be what to expect from a man and how to please her husband in bed. The bride to be also encouraged to show her " _wining skills_." 
It's a " rite of passage" before she gets married. Basically a condensed version of the _Karma Sutra_ done in a dance form.
The rhythm of the drums is very infectious.
In this celebration of female sexuality, men are usually not allowed to join in or dance with the women. It's just them having fun.
Here's an old clip of it I found on youtube , the guy is singing in Hindi , basically telling the women of " wine " or what you all are calling
" twerking."

Rikki Jai - Mor Tor.

Some people might think its vulgar if they are not au courant with the culture.
It is not a precursor to women cheating because they're NOT grinding on strange men. It is just a form of exhibitionism in a safe , controlled environment.
In fact I'm sure in their heightened state of arousal , their husbands or SO are the ones who benefit afterwards. At least I have.

But like I said in another thread, in Western cultures, sexuality and sexual expressions are mostly repressed.

However I can fully understand if some conservative people are offended by it.


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## ReformedHubby

norajane said:


> But it's fun! For a bunch of women in their 40's who don't get out much, it's fun! And it doesn't mean they're trying to turn anyone else on, just to have some fun with the girls. Dancing is fun!
> 
> Damn. I'm 45 and I sure hope to be twerking and whatever-ing as long as my legs can hold me up and my butt can move from side to side. I'm not dead yet and I don't give a crap what anyone else thinks if they think I'm over the hill and too old to have fun. I'll hold on to my_ joie de vive_, thanks.
> 
> They weren't doing anything wrong. They were doing some dirty dancing with their girl friends. They probably will go home and try it on hubby - look what I learned how to do last weekend, honey!
> 
> Anyway, your wife was as horrified as you, so you don't really have anything to worry about, do you?


I don't know. I guess its easy to say its all innocent fun and it probably was. I just know for me if the woman I married was twerking that thang like I know she can and I wasn't around it would freak me out. In the case of her friends I doubt that they really were doing it correctly. But, I do feel that it was dumb to post it, and I also feel that its unwise to bring that level of attention to yourself without your spouse around. 

I would post some video of some real dirty south twerking but fear that you guys couldn't handle it. It may very well lead to unwanted pregnancies by those who view it. I think a lot of guys on here may very well be unware that ummmm the female posterior can move like that.


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## Entropy3000

ReformedHubby said:


> My wife's life is typical suburbia. She has several groups of friends the library mom's, the karate moms, the church mom's, the workout moms etc.. I've gotten to know all of them and to me they all seem as normal as pumpkin pie. Loving responsible wives and mothers. Well one of the groups decided to do a girl's weekend away this weekend, and my opinion has changed a bit.
> 
> After looking at the photos they posted I'm glad my wife didn't go. They were only at their destination for a short time before the ill advised facebook pictures started popping up. My wife showed me a picture with a look of disbelief on her face.
> 
> These moms that I thought were so wholesome were twerking on one another. Also based on the photos they were drinking a lot and it wasn't even late yet. I found it both humorous and disturbing at the same time.
> 
> The more I thought about it though the more I became disturbed by it. If they are grinding on each other now what will they be doing at midnight? Why would they post this pic when they have daughters and husbands at home that would see it? Lastly, they are too damn old to be twerking!
> 
> Perhaps my thoughts on this are over the top but if my wife posted pics like that I would throw the kids in the minivan and tell them we are going to go get mommy. Sometimes people need to be saved from themselves.
> 
> Yes, I know it was just a picture, but to me it showed that some of these neanderthals around here might have a point. There very well might be something to this whole group think thing they were ranting about. I can't imagine that any of these women individually would think what they were doing was a good idea. They didn't even have good enough judgement to realize that posting the pics was a bad idea. I can only imagine how freaked out their husbands were by the pics.
> 
> So my question is, is my reaction just TAM induced paranoia or do I have a point? I will add that my wife after seeing the photos feels like she really didn't know them as well as she thought she did. But, perhaps she is being too judgmental to.


So I am going to call you out here. Glad you had an epiphany but calling men that are as you admit now smarter than you, neandrathals just tells me you do not quite get it yet. It is disengenuous.

A guy who is not ok with his wife doing this is far from a neandrathal. I think there is plenty of middle ground for a a quality man to be a good guy and not be a freaking wuss nor be a neandrathal. YMMV.

Glad you came to your senses. Glad your wife did not go and that your epiphany was not with her in the pictures and glad these were just women. 

I had dinner with a vendor this week ... think blue. His wife was on a GNO two weeks earlier and had a tattoo on her @$$ when she got home. Not her hip. Smack dab in the middle of her @$$. No joke. The insult to injury is that she agreed to the guy who did the work to post her @$$ on his web site. She just wanted to blow off some steam. Who knows what else went on? Nice.


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## Caribbean Man

ReformedHubby said:


> Ahhhh, brazilian dance. Anybody old enough to remember the "forbidden dance" aka the Lambada. It all of sudden became mainstream during my childhood. They even made a god awful movie about it. Sigh, I forsee twerking becoming mainstream.


lol,
Yes I remember Lambada.
But that's how these things evolve.
At least for a while until the new fad comes along.
Very soon twerking might be modified and then you know someone comes and does it on NBC's "_ Good Morning America_ "and then it goes viral.


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## Entropy3000

ReformedHubby said:


> I concur, I don't mind my wife letting her hair down but I should be the dude she is getting freaky with on the dance floor, and I certainly would not approve of her putting on this type of show for the enjoyment of other men.
> 
> But, in their defense they weren't grinding on guys they were only doing it to each other. Even with that said if I were a single dude that saw this behavior I would only assume that these ladies are ready to partay.
> 
> To the poster that requested a picture I can't do that. They posted it but I assume it was only meant for their social media friends.


But they were drawing a big target on themselves for the guys. They were out of town ... right? Bad news. Instigation, Isolation ... Escalation. If these ladies had hotel rooms that means they felt they could get very drunk and possibly even allow guys to buy them drinks. Is this speculating? Sure. But I do this knowing what is typical. Very familiar with this scene.


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## committed4ever

I admit to having done this in public to my H at a party when we're Salsa dancing and we were trying to outdo each other for fun. He put a dance move on me that kind of showed me up and the crowd yelled so I twerked him. He loved it. We weren't marry then but I'm pretty sure we were engaged. 

But I would crack up if I saw any older women doing this at a club or bar. I'm 28 and my twerking days in public are definite over. 

But my H and I do this to each other all the time as a tease. It crack me up that my H can actually do it right because to me it's a girlie move.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

JustHer said:


> Having said that, *when some women reach a certain age, per menopause, they sometimes go a little wild for a period of time.* (I solved this by buying my H and I some Harley's :smthumbup


 How true it is !!! Happy I didn't want a Harley, tooooo expensive! 

What did I do.... me and the husband hit the Strip Club, when some friends invited us, we went...really enjoyed it... he got as much -if not MORE fun out of that -than I did... it was *MY* Wild Spell.. but I took him along for the ride....we did it all together.... I was thrilled for him to get all hot & bothered like that ...that was WORKIN' for me ...as my sex drive was higher than his.. ..the new novelty/ allure wore off after the 1st 3 times though....bummer.

I am so out of touch with what goes on ....(never into the Girls night out thing)...I don't even know what Twerking Means!?


----------



## ReformedHubby

Entropy3000 said:


> So I am going to call you out here. Glad you had an epiphany but calling men that are as you admit now smarter than you, neandrathals just tells me you do not quite get it yet. It is disengenuous.
> 
> A guy who is not ok with his wife doing this is far from a neandrathal. I think there is plenty of middle ground for a a quality man to be a good guy and not be a freaking wuss nor be a neandrathal. YMMV.


Very valid point, I meant no harm by the neanderthal comment, I was just having fun and referencing an earlier neanderthal GNO post. 

I admit that TAM has taught me that I needed boundaries for more than just myself in my relationship. I do sometimes question if I am over reacting or not though. That was the reason for my post. I was hoping to keep this thread light hearted. If the thread were actually about my wife on the other hand I would most definitely be freaking out.


----------



## Entropy3000

TiggyBlue said:


> They were twerking with their female friends though not men.


Yes!!! This is very hot. I just came back from a work trip and it is very common for the ladies to act out by being overly sexual with each other. It is a way they can be flirty with the guys and gather sexual attention.

Girls shots sometimes. Where one woman uses her mouth to take the shot in between the breasts of the other woman. Faux or real kissing. 

This a whole genre of acting out. It draws attention from guys who are interested in getting into your pants. There may not be any intentiopn with allowing this but when the alcohol is flowing freely on these away from home trips boundaries slide big time. Sometimes a woman is cut from the hurd. Her "friends" are distracted by the wingman. Trust me it works all too often. Even if this only happens once over five years ... once is a little too much for me.

Women in their 30s - 40s can get very aggressive and push boundaries in a competation with each other. Then with some it is ok as it is just blowing off steam, they have a hotel room and no one will ever know.

And yes this week I would not tell a 48 year old married lady who had way way too much to drink what my room number was. She was a vendor who had way too much to drink. I make sure under these circumstances to watch how much I drink. Drinking is no excuse but I try to be careful. It is just to easy to make the wrong choice.


----------



## ReformedHubby

committed4ever said:


> But I would crack up if I saw any older women doing this at a club or bar. I'm 28 and my twerking days in public are definite over.


This is the point I was trying to make, in my culture ladies stop twerking in the club way before 30. Its just not something people do once they reach a certain age. Thats why my reaction to what they were attempting was a mixture of disturbed with quite a bit of humor as well.


----------



## Entropy3000

ReformedHubby said:


> I* still stand by my too old for twerking comment. * Old people can ski, kayak, have sex etc. But twerking? Ever hear about the "old man in the club". Nobody wants to be that guy. The problem is once you become that guy no one will tell you. There are indeed some things that just aren't age appropriate.
> 
> I am jacking my own thread here but lets look at an attractive woman over 40 like Jennifer Anniston. Would I be turned on by her twerking. Nope. Not a bit. There are just some things that look silly on you if you do them when you're older.


Let me just say there is a lot of sex going on with folks in thier 40s and 50s acting like people in thier 20s. 

It is fun to act out. It is fun to be with people in this age group. People are living much longer and most people who are alpha types in business and engineering are not ready to be sitting in those rocking chairs. They work hard and party hard.


----------



## Entropy3000

norajane said:


> But it's fun! For a bunch of women in their 40's who don't get out much, it's fun! And it doesn't mean they're trying to turn anyone else on, just to have some fun with the girls. Dancing is fun!
> 
> Damn. I'm 45 and I sure hope to be twerking and whatever-ing as long as my legs can hold me up and my butt can move from side to side. I'm not dead yet and I don't give a crap what anyone else thinks if they think I'm over the hill and too old to have fun. I'll hold on to my_ joie de vive_, thanks.
> 
> They weren't doing anything wrong. They were doing some dirty dancing with their girl friends. They probably will go home and try it on hubby - look what I learned how to do last weekend, honey!
> 
> Anyway, your wife was as horrified as you, so you don't really have anything to worry about, do you?


This is very hot. LOL. It is. Guys notice. It draws the wrong attention. Ladies being sexual with each other around men. Right. I get it. Lotsa fun. Plenty of attention.


----------



## ReformedHubby

Caribbean Man said:


> lol,
> Yes I remember Lambada.
> But that's how these things evolve.
> At least for a while until the new fad comes along.
> Very soon twerking might be *modified* and then you know someone comes and does it on NBC's "_ Good Morning America_ "and then it goes viral.


The key here is modification. I don't think its easy enough for the mainstream yet. I remember doing the Harlem Shake in my youth. The dance was so vigorous my head would hurt afterwards. If you look at the viral videos of the Harlem Shake now its not even close to being the same thing. Its just people jumping up and down. I guess this is just the general cycle of things.


----------



## Entropy3000

ReformedHubby said:


> Very valid point, I meant no harm by the neanderthal comment, I was just having fun and referencing an earlier neanderthal GNO post.
> 
> I admit that TAM has taught me that I needed boundaries for more than just myself in my relationship. I do sometimes question if I am over reacting or not though. That was the reason for my post. I was hoping to keep this thread light hearted. If the thread were actually about my wife on the other hand I would most definitely be freaking out.


I know, but at some level it is just pandering. LOL.

I am being light hearted. But I can promise you I know this scene. These things are innocent until they are not. So much goes down as ... just kidding. At some point it is playing just the tip.

This is all very powerful sexual stuff. If I wanted to take advanatge I could. That is not my ego talking. My point is that there are guys that are trying very hard to take advantage. They do all right.

You will get those that depend the party lifestyle at all costs.

My company culture puts me right in the middle of it. These people are all 30+ many close or over 50. Say eeewwwew all you want. It is a culture. Most of the women that tend to hang arounf me are in the mid to late thirties. Probably because I look that age.


----------



## committed4ever

ReformedHubby said:


> This is the point I was trying to make, in my culture ladies stop twerking in the club way before 30. Its just not something people do once they reach a certain age. Thats why my reaction to what they were attempting was a mixture of disturbed with quite a bit of humor as well.


Yep. I'm African American too but not the South but I feel the same way as you. It best left to expert. The only thing funnier than seeing somebody too old is seeing somebody who can't really,ly do it 

But I wonder if these ladies were really twerking or just bump and grinding? There's a difference.


----------



## Entropy3000

committed4ever said:


> Yep. I'm African American too but not the South but I feel the same way as you. It best left to expert. The only thing funnier than seeing somebody too old is seeing somebody who can't really,ly do it
> 
> But I wonder if these ladies were really twerking or just bump and grinding? There's a difference.


Agreed ... way back when people would bump hips side to side. That is not twerking.

But what does age really have to do with this?

Do some of you all even get out? I think it matters more is one is married than how old they are. 

Or are we just saying it is cooler when a young chick does it. Even if one is not dry humping moving in faux F'ing motions is a bit dubious ... no? Wjy ios that ok?

Again, wo,men dancing sexually with each other is uber hot and at least in my experience is done by women looking for male attention. I have not seen all women so maybe this is just the groups I have seen. 

For whatever reason some ladies are just celebrating their sexuallity. Their freedom by acting in a sexual manner. 

Wow, you guys looked amazing out there. <35 y/o giggle ... tee hee> I wish I could do moves like that. Oh you could teach me!? Awesome. What are you drinking? _Another round here please._ So what are you guys doing in town? Oh cool. Where are you staying? That is a great place. I am staying there too. I enjoy their piano bar lounge. Maybe we could have a few drinks when you guys get partied out. If you need a ride let me know. Yeah there is a great view on the tenth floor. I have a balcony overlooking the city. You would love it. Oh yeah is it amazing. I love my king size bed though. ( total load of crap -- but when someone is wasted it almost makes sense. )


----------



## ReformedHubby

Entropy3000 said:


> This is all very powerful sexual stuff. If I wanted to take advanatge I could.
> 
> My company culture puts me right in the middle of it. These people are all 30+ many close or over 50. Say eeewwwew all you want. It is a culture. Most of the women that tend to hang arounf me are in the mid to late thirties. Probably because I look that age.


Its definitely powerful stuff my friend. I hung up my dancing shoes years ago for this very reason. I never really had any game I just loved to dance. I would even go to the club by myself just to dance. I didn't care if there were women there or not, and this was my downfall. Not trying to grind up against every woman actually made them want to dance with me more.


----------



## Entropy3000

ReformedHubby said:


> Its definitely powerful stuff my friend. I hung up my dancing shoes years ago for this very reason. I never really had any game I just loved to dance. I would even go to the club by myself just to dance. I didn't care if there were women there or not, and this was my downfall. Not trying to grind up against every woman actually made them want to dance with me more.


I could not do it. Indeed I would not trust myself. I am being honest here. I would enjoy it way too much.


----------



## ReformedHubby

As a responsible TAM poster I am simply trying to provide a public service. Twerking can be dangerous and not just in a sexual way. Just go to this YouTube video and see for yourself. The first segment doesn't demonstrate it, but after watching this entire two minute video the dangers should be apparent. Please be safe ladies.

When Twerking Goes Wrong - YouTube


----------



## Caribbean Man

committed4ever said:


> I admit to having done this in public to my H at a party when we're Salsa dancing and we were trying to outdo each other for fun. He put a dance move on me that kind of showed me up and the crowd yelled so I twerked him. He loved it. We weren't marry then but I'm pretty sure we were engaged.
> 
> But I would crack up if I saw any older women doing this at a club or bar. I'm 28 and my twerking days in public are definite over.
> 
> But my H and I do this to each other all the time as a tease. It crack me up that my H can actually do it right because to me it's a girlie move.


Yes it's a girl move!
My wife does it to me sometimes too , but a much slower version when she wants to tease me.
Especially if I'm getting ready to go somewhere and she'd prefer I stay at home..
It's a huge turn on for me everytime she does it,
And she's 46.


----------



## Catherine602

Entropy I can't believe that drunk women proposition you! I go to meetings at lest 4 times a yr and I have never seen a single woman get drunk and go to a colleague's room. 

I have seen cheating among my colleagues but not a sudden decision in a drunken state. It astounds me that people do this. It is so risky, diseases, being found out, other people knowing, having to see the person again for business.


----------



## Caribbean Man

ReformedHubby said:


> Its definitely powerful stuff my friend. I hung up my dancing shoes years ago for this very reason. I never really had any game I just loved to dance. I would even go to the club by myself just to dance. I didn't care if there were women there or not, and this was my downfall. Not trying to grind up against every woman actually made them want to dance with me more.


I too loved to dance back when I was single.
Sometimes I went to clubs alone or with a group of guys.
Sometimes I went with a group of girls, and when they started doing it , usually it was like a " conga line " with me sandwiched between then.
It was like heaven, all I could see was envy on the other guys faces.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Catherine602 said:


> Entropy I can't believe that drunk women proposition you! I go to meetings at lest 4 times a yr and I have never seen a single woman get drunk and go to a colleague's room.
> 
> I have seen cheating among my colleagues but not a sudden decision in a drunken state. It astounds me that people do this. It is so risky, diseases, being found out, other people knowing, having to see the person again for business.


Drunk or not, women preposition men all the time.
Maybe not as often as men preposition women, but it does happen!


----------



## committed4ever

Entrophy,

As far as the age thing, I guess it just an ingrained thing that it's a move for young girls and like in my case if I'm too old for at it at 28, then somebody who is 40 is just WAY too old for it. It kind of risque anyway so for somebody older to be doing it is just laughable.

Kind of like a man over 30 wearing his pant hanging off his butt --- not a good look anyway but over 30 -- just W-R-O-N-G


----------



## committed4ever

Caribbean Man said:


> Yes it's a girl move!
> My wife does it to me sometimes too , but a much slower version when she wants to tease me.
> Especially if I'm getting ready to go somewhere and she'd prefer I stay at home..
> It's a huge turn on for me everytime she does it,
> And she's 46.


Oh yeah I can see how it would be! At 46 she still getting it done!

But would you want her doing it in a club?


----------



## ReformedHubby

committed4ever said:


> Entrophy,
> 
> As far as the age thing, I guess it just an ingrained thing that it's a move for young girls and like in my case if I'm too old for at it at 28, then somebody who is 40 is just WAY too old for it. It kind of risque anyway so for somebody older to be doing it is just laughable.
> 
> Kind of like a man over 30 wearing his pant hanging off his butt --- not a good look anyway but over 30 -- just W-R-O-N-G


Bingo, this is my point. I don't dispute that if you're older you can do anything you want to. But please understand that it in many cases it will make you an object of ridicule. I wouldn't wear skinny jeans even though I can technically still fit them. I can easily out dance Justin Bieber but only the kids that attended my daughter's birthday party know it these days.

As an older dude I can still be fly without engaging in behavior that is more fit for younger people. Its more of a mature swag if you will. This forty year old let me relive my college spring break thing is just not appealing and really unattractive. That is what I meant. Can older people do whatever they want? Sure. Bit the question is. Should they?


----------



## Entropy3000

Catherine602 said:


> Entropy I can't believe that drunk women proposition you! I go to meetings at lest 4 times a yr and I have never seen a single woman get drunk and go to a colleague's room.
> 
> I have seen cheating among my colleagues but not a sudden decision in a drunken state. It astounds me that people do this. It is so risky, diseases, being found out, other people knowing, having to see the person again for business.


I am completely sincere. I am for sure not God's gift to women by any means. In fact if there is a God they have balanced me out with many things to be humble about. Many prettier men than I to be sure. I am engaging and in these settings have a fun personality. 

I think I do have some things going for me in these cases. I look way younger than I am. So I have the confidence of an older man ... which I am, but still look young enough to be quite foolish.  I have a secret weapon. I actually listen and engage with women. I maintain mystery. But did I say I listen? I actually do care what women say. Do most men? Really? I do. Other than that I cannot explain it. I am genuine. I am myself. I listen. 

Ladies like yourself have helped me to understand at least some of the challenges that competent and intelligent women face and have faced over time. They seem to allow themselves to be more vulnerable with me. That is a nice compliment to me. I do not take advantage. I also truly have a thing for intelligent professional women. That probably is evident. I do not treat them as inferior like some men do. They are my peers. I am neither intimidated by them nor do I wish to impress them. People know who I am. So I can be self deprecating. I am not selling anything. I enjoy the company of these women for who they are.


----------



## Entropy3000

committed4ever said:


> Entrophy,
> 
> As far as the age thing, I guess it just an ingrained thing that it's a move for young girls and like in my case if I'm too old for at it at 28, then somebody who is 40 is just WAY too old for it. It kind of risque anyway so for somebody older to be doing it is just laughable.
> 
> Kind of like a man over 30 wearing his pant hanging off his butt --- not a good look anyway but over 30 -- just W-R-O-N-G


I agree. The thing is that people in their late 30s and above have in my industry anyway, gone through a lot of hell to be successful. You can pretty much count on this causing them marital stress.

I am talking about women in IT / Engineering. And women in marketing roles in IT / Engineering.

Realize that all through their careers they have endured being treated with less respect than they are due. I am talking about the cream of the crop here. The really capable ones. They have endured sexual harassment no end. Being paid less. Not being listened to because afterall they are just women. They have worked long hours and raised families.

Did I mention I listen to them? Do you all see how important that is to these women? They want to be respected for who they are and not just for their t!ts and @$$? So when A guy like me, who initmidates most of the other men, genuinely listens to them, they find that engaging. This is what I have come up with. I am not the richest guy. I am not the best looking. I am truly confident but not really arrogant. But at what I do one could argue I am among the best in any technical group I work in. I value these women. They have had to work twice as hard to get where they are at. I think that is very special. So in my realm ... my small pond it is this way.

I am the guy from out of town. And very often these are people who are from out of town. Lets call it the Casablanca effect. Idunno. I do not take advantage. No doubt they sense that too. I can be kinda cute in person. LOL.

Ok so enough narcissism. I am being a bore and an @$$hole for going on about this. My point is that many women of this age have a lot of steam to blow off. More than many men have any idea about. I have only realized this in the past few years. I have compassion for them. Many are not married.


----------



## larry.gray

Catherine602 said:


> Entropy I can't believe that drunk women proposition you! I go to meetings at lest 4 times a yr and I have never seen a single woman get drunk and go to a colleague's room.
> 
> I have seen cheating among my colleagues but not a sudden decision in a drunken state. It astounds me that people do this.


Being drunk only lowers the inhibitions to do something they have been thinking about doing sober. I'm sure they've had fantasies of doing that before they got drunk and only are acting on it after.



Catherine602 said:


> It is so risky, diseases, being found out, other people knowing, having to see the person again for business.


How about getting caught in a conference room after hours? The woman was separated and the divorce was almost finished, but the guy involved wasn't. I don't know what happened to his marriage as I left the company a few months later. 

But could you imagine walking back into work after getting caught? Knowing that everyone was gossiping?


----------



## Caribbean Man

committed4ever said:


> Oh yeah I can see how it would be! At 46 she still getting it done!
> 
> But would you want her doing it in a club?


That's the thing.

In the area i live , there are lots and lots of dance clubs.
There are also many different types of clubs. For example, there are Latin dance clubs , Indian ( Bollywood type ) dance clubs , Urban dance clubs , Jamaican ( Dancehall ) clubs , Jamaican 
( reggae :smthumbup clubs , US PopClubs and so on.

I once visited a dance club that catered for retires ,50 yrs +, and it was packed. The music was played by a live band , and they danced , ballroom style . Lots of ballads and so on, but no " twerking", lol.
It was a nice experience .

There are also clubs that cater for certain age groups , like mature people. In a mature club it's like 35 yr + patrons. Most likely these would be divorced women , mothers , professional single women , and the GNO type women.

But my wife is not a clubbing type person ,she hates loud music , and like me , she doesn't always like crowds .
But if she had no problem with crowds and so on, I see absolutely nothing wrong if she was with a group of her friends in that type of club catering for their age and tastes , doing that kind of dance.
I think it's all in the context.
Let the younger folks do their thing in their environment , and the older folks fraternize with others their age.

Another type of entertainment that is very popular among mature people here are " pleasure cruises / boat rides."
I've been on a few and its like a boat / yacht with an area for dancing. But the DJ plays the music that mature folks would love , and the might sometimes dance like that for a few , but its not really overdone like in the younger club scene.

I really see no problem in older folks expressing themselves in that way , its a dance and music can bring out expressions. Once it's not overdone.
In an environment full of mature people around the same age , I don't think anybody would be laughing or judging anybody.
After all,
They're all, " _in the same boat _",
literally":rofl:


----------



## ReformedHubby

Entropy3000 said:


> I agree. The thing is that people in their late 30s and above have in my industry anyway, gone through a lot of hell to be successful. You can pretty much count on this causing them marital stress.
> 
> I am talking about women in IT / Engineering. And women in marketing roles in IT / Engineering.
> 
> Realize that all through their careers they have endured being treated with less respect than they are due. I am talking about the cream of the crop here. The really capable ones. They have endured sexual harassment no end. Being paid less. Not being listened to because afterall they are just women. They have worked long hours and raised families.
> 
> Did I mention I listen to them? Do you all see how important that is to these women? They want to be respected for who they are and not just for their t!ts and @$$? So when A guy like me, who initmidates most of the other men, genuinely listens to them, they find that engaging. This is what I have come up with. I am not the richest guy. I am not the best looking. I am truly confident but not really arrogant. But at what I do one could argue I am among the best in any technical group I work in. I value these women. They have had to work twice as hard to get where they are at. I think that is very special. So in my realm ... my small pond it is this way.
> 
> I am the guy from out of town. And very often these are people who are from out of town. Lets call it the Casablanca effect. Idunno. I do not take advantage. No doubt they sense that too. I can be kinda cute in person. LOL.
> 
> Ok so enough narcissism. I am being a bore and an @$$hole for going on about this. My point is that many women of this age have a lot of steam to blow off. More than many men have any idea about. I have only realized this in the past few years. I have compassion for them. Many are not married.


I hate to be a me too thread jacking poster in my own thread no less but I own an IT company and I know exactly what you're talking about. I am the opposite though, I really don't engage in the personal talk because its far too risky. You are right about one thing it is really lonely for a lot of them. When I look at my male peers none of us are married to women like them. So it does make me wonder sometimes who do they date?


----------



## Dad&Hubby

Caribbean Man said:


> Let me see if I can put this into context.
> 
> Firstly, I live in the Caribbean, and this new " twerking " craze that has recently hit the US has been here , well forever. It is a way we dance and express ourselves. The term we use is
> " wineing ."
> Yes, its very sexually suggestive , but it is what it has always been, a form of art or cultural expression. Both men & women of every age and background do it and alcohol is not always involved, just sweet music.
> It is the way we dance.
> I suspect that this dance came from the Caribbean to the US, via many of the US pop stars , celebs and rappers who come here for fun and to party.
> 
> Here's a small clip of a street carnival party / parade;
> 
> Trinidad Carnival- Harts 2013
> 
> Observe there are people of every age , male and female.
> 
> Here's another vid of Rhianna grinding and bumping her lady parts at a similar street party in Barbados a few weeks ago;
> 
> Rhianna At Crop Over, Barbados.
> 
> Just to put everything in context, this type of dance is very normal down here,it's how we party.
> Women grind on women, women grind on men and so on.
> Some couples might agree before to only dance with each other, some might go to a party with a group of friends and agree not to grind on strangers, only grind with those in the group.
> And still some might just grind on anybody, male or female.
> 
> However I can fully understand the cultural shock this type of dancing would bring into a society that is not accustomed to it.It is a very sexually expressive type of dancing.
> My wife is not the partying type , but I remember when I was single and hitting the clubs, my date and I would hang out with a group and only dance like that, with those in the group, male and female. She danced with other men, I danced with other women.
> 
> I can fully understand why it would be disturbing to a husband at home and his wife out there grinding on a strange man in a club under the influence of alcohol.
> However I wouldn't have a problem if my wife did this with ONLY women in her all girls group , if I wasn't around..
> I see it as a way of " letting her hair down ", and expressing herself in a safe environment with other RESPONSIBLE women.
> 
> But it's better to be around your wife or SO and enjoying some fun. It is a very subtle form of sexual foreplay and the rewards are usually reaped in bed immediately after.
> However if either partner is not present, there should be a level of caution.
> Things can head southwards, very fast.


I live in the Northeast and I want to expand on CM's post. 

He's dead on right plus it's not like it hasn't been around in the US either. in the early 90's, when the mix of Reggae and Pop became really big with Shabba Ranks and artists like him. "Twerking" was alive and well back then. Many up here just called that form of dance "Reggae". There was also the "bounce" style from the same time period and one of the artists says "Twerk baby" in his song (from the early 90's)

So Twerking is nothing new. 

As CM has pointed out, you need to look at cultural lines and even individual people's history. If my wife was a HUGE dancer for many years, and was into Reggae and Caribbean dance, and she went out and was twerking with her friends one night and let her hair down. I'd have no problems with it (as long as it wasn't on another guy). But if my wife wasn't that way, and it's NEW behavior, that's different.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

FrenchFry said:


> Close!
> 
> Twerking has been part of the bounce music scene out of New Orleans for at least 20 years, with part of the origin coming from the "Traditional African" dances that caught on with (especially hip hop) dancers in the early 90's.
> 
> A brief history of twerking.
> 
> So, it hasn't been here forever...but it's been here for most of my life at least.


Dang, should've kept reading instead of posting. FF beat me to it. LOL


----------



## Dad&Hubby

ReformedHubby said:


> Ahhhh, brazilian dance. Anybody old enough to remember the "forbidden dance" aka the Lambada. It all of sudden became mainstream during my childhood. They even made a god awful movie about it. Sigh, I forsee twerking becoming mainstream.


HAHAHA, the lambada brings back one of my funniest memories.

Freshman year in college, a hypnotist does a show. I end up on stage. The hypnotist pairs people up and has them do the lambada. Me and the girl I was paired with actually knew what we were doing. The hypnotist then apologized to the crowd saying "Uhhh sorry about that. I had heard about the lambada but didn't really know what it was." I was famous for about a week as "The lambada guy". LOL.


----------



## Kobo

Caribbean Man said:


> Let me see if I can put this into context.
> 
> Firstly, I live in the Caribbean, and this new " twerking " craze that has recently hit the US has been here , well forever. It is a way we dance and express ourselves. The term we use is
> " wineing ."
> .


It's been here for ever also. Just now little Jenny from suburbia see's it online and imitates it for Johnny and Caleb. Now its the "craze that's sweeping the nation"


----------



## ReformedHubby

Kobo said:


> It's been here for ever also. Just now little Jenny from suburbia see's it online and imitates it for Johnny and Caleb. Now its the "craze that's sweeping the nation"


In actuality I think it was Miley Cyrus's MTV award show performance that got everybody talking about it and wanting to try it. It actually caused quite a bit of debate between women. Some thought her performance was shameful, others said she had a right to do what she wanted to on stage. I didn't mind the performance so much. What did people expect its MTV? I was just a little miffed that someone that is so bad at twerking is now the face of it.


----------



## Kobo

FrenchFry said:


> JSYK.
> 
> Twerking isn't grinding on a person. Grinding is rubbing your butt/body against a person, no coordination required.
> 
> Twerking is bouncing your butt/hips rhythmically, either both cheeks together or one at a time This can be done against a person but is most effectively done solo.
> 
> ~*the more you know*~


Yes. People need to understand the subtle differences. Twerking is an art form. The only people that twerk against someone are strippers. Bless them.


----------



## Kobo

Caribbean Man said:


> I think people are sceptical because they think its " vulgar." But the environment it's done in , negates that. In a club , party or Carnival_ is_ the place for twerking, not in the bank , supermarket or Walmart.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=ZrRHgZAYf98Pjpr9HdqVKw&bvm=bv.52164340,d.eWU


----------



## ScarletBegonias

I really don't care what other women are doing while married.That's on them.If you don't like your wife out there clubbing and twerking then speak up.Just be sure you have a list of reasons laid out for why it's not ok in your mind.

I don't go to clubs anymore bc I don't enjoy it.If I'm going out dancing it's going to be with my SO.That's how we like it.
Some people prefer it differently.


----------



## Fozzy

FrenchFry said:


> JSYK.
> 
> Twerking isn't grinding on a person. Grinding is rubbing your butt/body against a person, no coordination required.
> 
> Twerking is bouncing your butt/hips rhythmically, either both cheeks together or one at a time This can be done against a person but is most effectively done solo.
> 
> ~*the more you know*~


Fair enough. Mind you I'm not saying I have a problem with anyone doing it (other than my daughters-NEVER). I just have a problem with this misconception it seems like a lot of gals have that it's just dancing and not completely sexually charged. I guarantee every guy on the dance floor watching it has that switch flipped in his head from "dance" to "horizontal dance". I'm sure plenty of women are aware of it, but from conversations I've had, it seems a lot of women are not, which just seems absurd on its face.

*edited for spelling*


----------



## Caribbean Man

Kobo said:


> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=ZrRHgZAYf98Pjpr9HdqVKw&bvm=bv.52164340,d.eWU


Man , that is just,
Wrong!:rofl:

Wrong place ,
Wrong time.


----------



## thunderstruck

Catherine602 said:


> Entropy I can't believe that drunk women proposition you! I go to meetings at lest 4 times a yr and I have never seen a single woman get drunk and go to a colleague's room.


Very easy for me to believe. After doing the Nice Guy and MMSL stuff, I got my confidence back, and non-drunk women in the 35+ age range started hitting on me. Some come on pretty hard and are clear about what they want.

Add in alcohol, and...yeah.


----------



## Kobo

Fozzy said:


> Fair enough. Mind you I'm not saying I have a problem with anyone doing it (other than my daughters-NEVER). I just have a problem with this misconception it seems like a lot of gals have that it's just dancing and not completely sexually charged. I guarantee every guy on the dance floor watching it has that switch flipped in his head from "dance" to "horizontal dance". I'm sure plenty of women are aware of it, but from conversations I've had, it seems a lot of women are not, which just seems absurd on its face.
> 
> *edited for spelling*


I don't think it really matters. Every guy at clubbing age is ready to do the horizontal dance at a moments notice.


----------



## awake1

Call me old fashioned, but i don't think any woman i'm with should be bumping privates with anyone else, no matter how many layers of cloth are in between. 

As for just dancing, no problem there.

So in my mind twerking + crotch contact = no way. 

Anything else is good


----------



## Entropy3000

larry.gray said:


> Being drunk only lowers the inhibitions to do something they have been thinking about doing sober. I'm sure they've had fantasies of doing that before they got drunk and only are acting on it after.
> 
> 
> 
> How about getting caught in a conference room after hours? The woman was separated and the divorce was almost finished, but the guy involved wasn't. I don't know what happened to his marriage as I left the company a few months later.
> 
> But could you imagine walking back into work after getting caught? Knowing that everyone was gossiping?


Yes, a few years back this happened to my bosses boss.

What is common in my case this is on a road trip where all concerned have private rooms on different floors. The later the evening the greater chance of monkey business. For a number of reasons. For some folks this is a life style of behavior. Also keep in mind not all people are married. Many divorced. So this is within their rights to do. However one feels about it.


----------



## thunderstruck

The odd thing about FB, when you post pics like this, it's not just your "cool" friends who get to see those pics. Well, unless you set up some privacy things on your account, which I'm guessing most don't. 

Instead, your family, maybe your kids, members of your church, coworkers, etc. get to see your big azz drunk-twerking other moms. Good stuff.


----------



## Entropy3000

ReformedHubby said:


> I hate to be a me too thread jacking poster in my own thread no less but I own an IT company and I know exactly what you're talking about. I am the opposite though, I really don't engage in the personal talk because its far too risky. You are right about one thing it is really lonely for a lot of them. When I look at my male peers none of us are married to women like them. So it does make me wonder sometimes who do they date?


Yes. Lonely. It can be a tough life. Getting some human compassion every once in a while is nice.

But this varies with company culture. I remember a documnetary about apple computing in the early days involving the habits of young geeks on trips. Lots of interaction. Why are we surprised that people in their 30s and 40s and even 50s acting this way? In fact many of these folks put their lives on hold for many long years. 

But my point does relate back to your thread. My focus is just on a group of folks in IT and Sales. But each group has its own dynamics. High Scholl reunions are notorious. 

Sexual bahavior is not just for people in their 20s. I find the concept amazing. In fact many cultures in the name of team building encourage folks to not act so stuffy period.

My wife and I went on a wine tour with a consulting company last year during OOW / JavaONE. We took a party bus. The quiet ones were the most bold once the alcohol got flowing and the music. Lots of grinding to music and groping and lots of wedding rings flashing. My wife and I enjoyed the show. I had three women fall in my lap accidently on purpose. One tried to give me a lap dance. No doubt because my wife was there. BUT, I can gaurantee you it would have been much more agressive if I was alone.


----------



## Entropy3000

Kobo said:


> It's been here for ever also. Just now *little Jenny from suburbia* see's it online and imitates it for Johnny and Caleb. Now its the "craze that's sweeping the nation"


And this is my point. In my "limited" view in the ciontext of this thread, we are talking about little Jenny from suburbia on a GNO trip, in a club doing this. We can agree to disagree but this is at least mild sexual behavior in this context. I hear the oh it is just having a good time and I am in control .... yadda yadda yadda. Maybe so but you become a huge target and with the alochol flowing and with private hotel rooms boundaries can slip drastically epsecially if this becomes a yearly thing or more often thing. But indeed bad stuff can come of this in one trip. BTW what a woman wears or does not wear in this context matters. Jeans are one thing. But doing this in a sexy short dress and thong are quite another thing. Now how about doing this with men? Are we to assume that this is always limited to women dancing in a circle. GMAFB. Just like guys never get lap dances in strip clubs. Right.

This is just one more way of pushing boundaries. And lets assume it is all very "innocent", how does starting to do this impact ones view of other boundaries.

I am not pointing fingers at others. When I type this trust me ... I am thinking of myself and how my boundaries have eroded over time and the people I am around.

So for all the ladies that club and dance in a circle, you can do whatever you want, but this twerking thing is going to draw different attention. Also consider how it impacts your boundaries. To flat out say it has no impact is more than naive. We are human.


----------



## Entropy3000

ScarletBegonias said:


> I really don't care what other women are doing while married.That's on them.If you don't like your wife out there clubbing and twerking then speak up.Just be sure you have a list of reasons laid out for why it's not ok in your mind.
> 
> I don't go to clubs anymore bc I don't enjoy it.If I'm going out dancing it's going to be with my SO.That's how we like it.
> Some people prefer it differently.


This^^^^^^

If you have an issue speak up.


----------



## always_alone

Kobo said:


> I don't think it really matters. Every guy at clubbing age is ready to do the horizontal dance at a moments notice.


Exactly. And so why is it that women must always restrain themselves from doing anything remotely sexual just to try and prevent some random guy from having sexual thoughts?

The worried men are, of course, completely trustworthy and above reproach. Poor things can't help that they are so uber hot and irresistibly enticing that women fling themselves at them in a constant barrage.

No, blame the women. They're clearly the ones at fault.


----------



## Caribbean Man

thunderstruck said:


> Very easy for me to believe. After doing the Nice Guy and MMSL stuff, I got my confidence back, and non-drunk women in the 35+ age range started hitting on me. Some come on pretty hard and are clear about what they want.
> 
> Add in alcohol, and...yeah.


I have found that a lot of 45 yrs + women, mostly managers and the professional type make direct , sexual suggestions to me.
These women aren't shy.
Most times these are the divorced types. No alcohol involved, but power does seem to have a worse effect on some people .

I just see it as part of the downside of the type of business I'm involved in .
At 43 yrs old , many people tell me that I look much younger.


----------



## Entropy3000

Catherine602 said:


> I go to meetings at lest 4 times a yr and I have never seen a single woman get drunk and go to a colleague's room.


I missed this part. My colleagues are on different floors.

Indeed being invited to anothers room for a drink is not uncommon. I never do that with someone of the opposite sex.

But these are not just people I work with often. They can be people from other companies I amy never see again. The road can be a very lonely place for some. It is unlikley anyone would know or care frankly. Is that a risk? Oh yes. If someone did this often enough it would become known.

Also just because someone goes to their room does not mean they do not make a 2am journey down the hall to get some ice from the machine. It is common for folks to get more than one key. I do. Just to reduce the possibiliy of me getting locked out. I have been offered keys before.


----------



## Entropy3000

always_alone said:


> Exactly. And so why is it that women must always restrain themselves from doing anything remotely sexual just to try and prevent some random guy from having sexual thoughts?
> 
> The worried men are, of course, completely trustworthy and above reproach. Poor things can't help that they are so uber hot and irresistibly enticing that women fling themselves at them in a constant barrage.
> 
> No, blame the women. They're clearly the ones at fault.


Here we go ... Actually I could care less what any woman not my wife does. But I would care if my wife did this. I care what she wears out in these circumstances as well. I would find it disrespectful for her to do this. I get to feel anyway I want. I understand that many women choose to make everything about independence and freedom and whatever. You go girl. I would not want my wife spilling out of her top while dancing either. It sends the wrong message. Same thing here. Dancing is part of a mating ritual at some point. It matters to me. You can go twerk yourself silly if you want. This is not something that would be ok for any woman who was married to me. Indeed many of us guys shake our heads and say, her poor husband. In some marriages this and even dating is ok. If you can't be with the one you love. Love the one you're with. Opa!!  Bring on the wenches!

But you can call it blame if you want. Women are in control of themselves. So they get to choose what message they send. Be responsible. If you really want to act single then be single. Don't ask your hubby to put up with this behavior if he has issues with it. That is abusive in my view.

If my wife asked me to change my behavior I would. I rpbably would have to change jobs to avoid the situations but I would do that if she wanted that.


----------



## thunderstruck

Caribbean Man said:


> I have found that a lot of 45 yrs + women, mostly managers an the professional type make direct , sexual suggestions to me.
> Most times these are the divorced types. No alcohol involved, but power does seem to have a worse effect on some people .


I recently had a divorced 46 yo business owner drop my jaw with her comments. No alcohol involved. We were talking business, I gave her a sincere compliment about her personality and her face lit up. 

She shifted the conversation to her newly found high s*x drive, and how she couldn't find a good guy to take care of her needs - "...and by the way, you're a very good-looking man."

For anyone who doesn't think so, yes, women make moves like this on guys, alcohol or not.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

I wouldn't care about them twerking with each other. If no guys are involved, it doesn't matter.

I've dated girls that go out a lot. Even going out separately before and winding up at the same place. Let me say this: Woe to the man who sticks his nose in there trying to pick one of them up.

For me, its not a problem... but I suppose it also depends on how much I trust her friends. Are they the type that would encourage her to wander, or would they steer their drunk girlfriend to safety.

I like the idea that a woman keeps in mind that she's not just a mom and retains a sense of independent identity.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

thunderstruck said:


> I recently had a divorced 46 yo business owner drop my jaw with her comments. No alcohol involved. We were talking business, I gave her a sincere compliment about her personality and her face lit up.
> 
> She shifted the conversation to her newly found high s*x drive, and how she couldn't find a good guy to take care of her needs - "...and by the way, you're a very good-looking man."
> 
> For anyone who doesn't think so, yes, women make moves like this on guys, alcohol or not.


These are always the older ones!!! What gives?

Is there an age that a woman will suddenly go from being young, stingy and sexually conservative to older and totally freaky? Or are these women just the same very sexual women further down the line? They are so dirty they almost make ME blush!


----------



## 3Xnocharm

This was a group of friends cutting up and having a good time. There were NO other men involved, so why the big to-do over it?? Yes, it was bad judgement to post the pics on FB. But women are just as entitled to cut up and act stupid together as men are. Because NOTHING crazy ever happens at deer camp, right??


----------



## Deejo

always_alone said:


> No, blame the women. They're clearly the ones at fault.


The ones with concerned husbands at home? Yes. It IS their fault.

Cherry-picking this stuff doesn't serve anyone's purposes. If you wouldn't be comfortable going home and telling your SO what you were out doing, regardless of your gender, then odds are, you shouldn't be out doing it.


----------



## Entropy3000

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I wouldn't care about them twerking with each other. If no guys are involved, it doesn't matter.
> 
> I've dated girls that go out a lot. Even going out separately before and winding up at the same place. Let me say this: Woe to the man who sticks his nose in there trying to pick one of them up.
> 
> For me, its not a problem... but I suppose it also depends on how much I trust her friends. Are they the type that would encourage her to wander, or would they steer their drunk girlfriend to safety.
> 
> I like the idea that a woman keeps in mind that she's not just a mom and retains a sense of independent identity.
> 
> *Interesting pickup line BTW with a few women. Not any woman I would want to be around though. Complimenting her with her expression of her sexuallity and her independence. This is one way to get into a married womans pants I suppose. I think most would see right through it. This might work with the very young and naive and those with daddy issues. A small percentage perhaps. But I am being extreme. It may get you to the hotel bar with her when you just happen by later.*


But you are all into the PUA scene and all about picking up single women.

This is much different. Different age group for one thing. We are talking a husband and wife thing here. Ladies on trips going to clubs and twerking.

My point is that you are down with this culture for your own purposes which is fine. Increasing the number of women clubbing and twerking increases the pool of available women. I say available because no matter the intent, putting yourself in this venue declares you are somewhat available. You are in play even if your guard is up and have strong boundaries.

All else equal a woman who is twerking is a more obvious target. Even more so if she is new to this. She is expanding her boundaries. It is fun to expand boundaries. It makes people all tingly sometimes in the right places. Attention can be like crack. Dancing sexually makes it even more exciting. I get the fun naughty part ladies. Trying this out for a few minutes is one thing. It caters to the inner stripper somewhat. Very hot.

Women may be different. But when I am turned on I start thinking from the the waste. My experince tells me that women can think from below the waste as much as men once motivated. YMMV.


----------



## Entropy3000

3Xnocharm said:


> This was a group of friends cutting up and having a good time. There were NO other men involved, so why the big to-do over it?? Yes, it was bad judgement to post the pics on FB. But women are just as entitled to cut up and act stupid together as men are. Because NOTHING crazy ever happens at deer camp, right??


Actually all he has are pictures of the ladies dancing. he has no idea what else if anything went on or did not go on.

But this topic opend up a further trendy discussion on the topic. Is it ok with the married guys here for their wives to twerk with other men? Grind? I get these are seen as differtn things but alcohol. music and sexiness blurs the lines.

So are we all ok with wive on a GNO trip :

1) Twerking with other wives ( original thread post )

2) Twerking with other men

3) Grinding with other men

4) Wearing short dress and thong with any of the above. 

So OP, what were these women wearing again? Jeans? Or what when they were bending over and shaking their behinds in a F'ing motion?

And yes many husbands do not care at all what their wives get into. I have heard one guy say to his wife, don't do anything you cannot wash off. Seriously. Well she did ... they got divorced over it.


----------



## norajane

Deejo said:


> The ones with concerned husbands at home? Yes. It IS their fault.
> 
> Cherry-picking this stuff doesn't serve anyone's purposes. If you wouldn't be comfortable going home and telling your SO what you were out doing, regardless of your gender, then odds are, you shouldn't be out doing it.


These women were apparently comfortable posting it on facebook, so I don't think they'd have issues going home and telling their hubbies about it.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Entropy3000 said:


> But you are all into the PUA and all about picking up single women.
> 
> This is amuch different. Different age group for one thing. We are talking a husband and wife thing here. Ladies on trips going to clubs and twerking.


What's the age group? I'd probably be comfortable with this up into the lower 40s.

There's a couple things that stand out (or I imagined them lol): No guys were involved. The ladies were drunk, but it wasn't very late. This lateness factor is one that I think is important. As the night gets later and later, the nature of the crowds at these places changes... with a distinct move toward those who want a hookup.

It sounds to me like these women did their clubbing pretty responsibly.



Entropy3000 said:


> Increasing the number of women clubbing and twerking increase the pool of available women. I say available because no matter the intent, putting yourself in this venue declares you are somewhat available. You are in play even if your guard is up.
> 
> All else equal a woman who is twerking is a more obvious target. Even more so if she is new to this. She is expanding her boundaries. It is fun to expand boundaries. It makes people all tingly sometimes in the right places. Attention can be like crack. Dancing sexually makes it even more exciting. I get the fun naughty part ladies. Trying this out for a few minutes is one thing. It caters to the inner stripper somewhat. Very hot.


Eh... a more obvious target sure. But just because a woman is a target doesn't mean she is available in any sense. These women are seeking the bright lights, loud music and crazy antics among their girlfriends. From what I've seen, guys aren't even welcome. Even when I've tried to hit women in these groups it usually doesn't play out. They don't want to talk and the sober ones tend to c*ckblock the drunk ones.

The naughty antics aren't really for the guys who are there. Its more the girls laughing at each other being outrageous.

I get what you're saying. I'm just saying that a woman who doesn't want to be gotten can't be gotten. There's a huge difference between this, and the fake "hard to get" that I get through all the time.

That said, it such a GNO would definitely make it easier for someone who wants to slip up. I don't think this is usually the case... especially for rare outings that really don't go on too late.


----------



## thunderstruck

norajane said:


> These women were apparently comfortable posting it on facebook, so I don't think they'd have issues going home and telling their hubbies about it.


Maybe, but then it sounds like they drunk-posted the pics on FB. Some, or all, may have tried to pull those later, before their hubbies saw.

I've seen a few pics along those lines appear on FB, but then they go away a few hours/days later.


----------



## Deejo

norajane said:


> These women were apparently comfortable posting it on facebook, so I don't think they'd have issues going home and telling their hubbies about it.


Or they could give a sh!t about what their hubbies think. I mean it's not like anyone's relationship has ever been put at risk by Facebook, right?


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Entropy3000 said:


> Actually all he has are pictures of the ladies dancing. he has no idea what else if anything went on or did not go on.
> 
> But this topic opend up a further trendy discussion on the topic. Is it ok with the married guys here for their wives to twerk with other men? Grind? I get these are seen as differtn things but alcohol. music and sexiness blurs the lines.
> 
> So are we all ok with wive on a GNO trip :
> 
> 1) Twerking with other wives ( original thread post )
> 
> *2) Twerking with other men
> 
> 3) Grinding with other men*
> 
> 4) Wearing short dress and thong with any of the above.
> 
> So OP, what were these women wearing again? Jeans? Or what when they were bending over and shaking their behinds in a F'ing motion?


Did these happen? There should be no other guy involved in any physical engagement imo. Flirty comments and sexy clothes... meh... they don't bother me.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Entropy3000 said:


> Interesting pickup line BTW with a few women. Not any woman I would want to be around though. Complimenting her with her expression of her sexuallity and her independence. This is one way to get into a married womans pants I suppose. I think most would see right through it. This might work with the very young and naive and those with daddy issues. A small percentage perhaps. But I am being extreme. It may get you to the hotel bar with her when you just happen by later.
> .


I'm not sure what you mean by this. It wasn't a pickup line. I want my future wife to still have some "edge" to her... and in order to have that edge, she needs to be free of me from time to time.

For me, its about trust and evaluating the people she's with.

The bottom line is that everyone is going to have a different standard of behavior they're comfortable with. The only important thing is keeping your own boundaries... wherever they may be, else you're making deposits on resentment.


----------



## norajane

thunderstruck said:


> Maybe, but then it sounds like they drunk-posted the pics on FB. Some, or all, may have tried to pull those later, before their hubbies saw.
> 
> I've seen a few pics along those lines appear on FB, but then they go away a few hours/days later.





Deejo said:


> Or they could give a sh!t about what their hubbies think. I mean it's not like anyone's relationship has ever been put at risk by Facebook, right?


Or they could have called their hubbies from the club and said, "Hey, guess what I'm doing? Wish you were here! Can't wait to get home and show you!"

I guess if we just want to get all moralizing about other people who aren't asking for advice, we can come up with lots of scenarios that make them out to be evil cheating sl*ts on the make. However, it's just as likely they are perfectly nice middle-aged women friends who are having fun playing at a new dance move for giggles.


----------



## Entropy3000

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> These are always the older ones!!! What gives?
> 
> Is there an age that a woman will suddenly go from being young, stingy and sexually conservative to older and totally freaky? Or are these women just the same very sexual women further down the line? They are so dirty they almost make ME blush!


Actually young man ... LOL. In all seriousness yes. Women just like men go through stages in life. For all sorts of reasons. I suppose we could elaborate but indeed yes attitudes change over time. Hormones are involved. Life is involved. There are stages and events which shape our behaviors. It is not a smooth continuum for all concerned.


----------



## Deejo

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> These are always the older ones!!! What gives?
> 
> Is there an age that a woman will suddenly go from being young, stingy and sexually conservative to older and totally freaky? Or are these women just the same very sexual women further down the line? They are so dirty they almost make ME blush!


I have had this conversation with several women. All late thirties to forties. 

They described it as 'waking up' and acknowledging that either their perception of what being sexual was, completely changed, or recognizing that the person they were having sex with ... wasn't ever, ever, going to help them 'wake up'.

I am now always VERY skeptical of when someone believes a woman, 'just isn't that sexual'. No doubt that sometimes is the case, but in about 80% of my experiences it's a matter of feeling secure in the knowledge that your partner WANTS to go there with you.

Hell I did even get twerked in one case.


----------



## Entropy3000

norajane said:


> These women were apparently comfortable posting it on facebook, so I don't think they'd have issues going home and telling their hubbies about it.


Wow. OMG I will not further threadjack. But suffice it to say there was FB drama last week on my team.

Being comfortable in posting on FB is not a good indicator. No doubt these were posted under the influence.

Trust me. What gets posted on FB during the party is often regretted. In fact it not only causes marital issues but is often the source of great embarrassment for all concerened. Like I want my wife posting her twerking on FB. OMG noooooooooooo!!!!! Indeed the person who posts is not in the picture. Also some people will post to cause problems for others.

I had to explain a few FB things to my wife from last week. The Waffle House paper hats at 1:30am. A coworker checking me and her in some place we were at. There was a large group but she checked just her and I in. Oh lord..... sigh. My wife was all over that. She was laughing and knew I was not there alone with this woman.


----------



## Deejo

norajane said:


> Or they could have called their hubbies from the club and said, "Hey, guess what I'm doing? Wish you were here! Can't wait to get home and show you!"
> 
> I guess if we just want to get all moralizing about other people who aren't asking for advice, we can come up with lots of scenarios that make them out to be evil cheating sl*ts on the make. However, it's just as likely they are perfectly nice middle-aged women friends who are having fun playing at a new dance move for giggles.


I will confess, that I like your scenario a hell of a lot better than some of the other possibilities.

And I also agree that a man approaching women dancing in packs twerking or otherwise thinking he has a shot, is a strong indicator of a guy that doesn't know much, or is clearly drunk.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Deejo said:


> Hell I did even get twerked in one case.


I don't know whether to be turned on or freaked out by these women. They are direct as all get out and the language they use is just NASTY! lol 

Maybe aging isn't all bad.  haha


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Deejo said:


> I will confess, that I like your scenario a hell of a lot better than some of the other possibilities.
> 
> And I also agree that a man approaching women dancing in packs twerking or otherwise thinking he has a shot, is a strong indicator of a guy that doesn't know much, or is clearly drunk.


Its a thin line. You gotta see if they're dancing with each other to get reactions from guys, or if they're dancing with each other just to dance with each other.

You can usually key on how much they're looking around and aware of the guys. The ones not looking around and paying attention to guy's reactions are going to shut you down... and sometimes its ugly... and funny.


----------



## always_alone

Deejo said:


> Cherry-picking this stuff doesn't serve anyone's purposes. If you wouldn't be comfortable going home and telling your SO what you were out doing, regardless of your gender, then odds are, you shouldn't be out doing it.


Fair enough. Just pointing out that maybe all these guys who have women falling into their laps and offering room keys and so on, might be the ones who are sending the wrong signals. 

Certainly I would start worrying if my SO brought home too many of these stories. I wouldn't assume that it was just the women contributing to the dynamic.


----------



## Deejo

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Its a thin line. You gotta see if they're dancing with each other to get reactions from guys, or if they're dancing with each other just to dance with each other.
> 
> You can usually key on how much they're looking around and aware of the guys. The ones not looking around and paying attention to guy's reactions are going to shut you down... and sometimes its ugly... and funny.


Yep.

I know FrenchFry goes dancing with her girlfriends, and they are seasoned practioners of putting the smack down on 'dancing dude'.


----------



## Entropy3000

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> What's the age group? I'd probably be comfortable with this up into the lower 40s.
> 
> There's a couple things that stand out (or I imagined them lol): No guys were involved. The ladies were drunk, but it wasn't very late. This lateness factor is one that I think is important. As the night gets later and later, the nature of the crowds at these places changes... with a distinct move toward those who want a hookup.
> 
> It sounds to me like these women did their clubbing pretty responsibly.
> 
> 
> 
> Eh... a more obvious target sure. But just because a woman is a target doesn't mean she is available in any sense. These women are seeking the bright lights, loud music and crazy antics among their girlfriends. From what I've seen, guys aren't even welcome. Even when I've tried to hit women in these groups it usually doesn't play out. They don't want to talk and the sober ones tend to c*ckblock the drunk ones.
> 
> The naughty antics aren't really for the guys who are there. Its more the girls laughing at each other being outrageous.
> 
> I get what you're saying. I'm just saying that a woman who doesn't want to be gotten can't be gotten. There's a huge difference between this, and the fake "hard to get" that I get through all the time.
> 
> That said, it such a GNO would definitely make it easier for someone who wants to slip up. I don't think this is usually the case... especially for rare outings that really don't go on too late.


My point is that your view is as a guy looking for women. Not as a guy with a wife out doing this. Valid view for sure, but a very different one than the OP.


----------



## Entropy3000

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Did these happen? There should be no other guy involved in any physical engagement imo. Flirty comments and sexy clothes... meh... they don't bother me.


Reread my post. I am asking this question. Trying get where peoples boundaries are.

We actually do not know what happened.

My question stands.

I am glad you do not care about clothing, but it matters. Bending over and having your boobs slip out or showing your bare @$$ to guys is much different that have a shirt and jeans on. No comparison actually. Sorry bare natural breasts swinging free for all to see and bending over wiggling your behind matter to many. I get why you are ok with with it. You are their to watch the women and to hookup or meet women if you can. So your view is going to be pro party and you go girl. It is your agenda. Perhpas you can even make some points here on TAM with the pro party crowd. I get it. Not saying it is your intention but it is for some single guys here. To discuss marriage and meet women. Yes some of the ladies actually tell others about the PMs they get from some guys. LOL.


----------



## Entropy3000

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by this. It wasn't a pickup line. I want my future wife to still have some "edge" to her... and in order to have that edge, she needs to be free of me from time to time.
> 
> For me, its about trust and evaluating the people she's with.
> 
> The bottom line is that everyone is going to have a different standard of behavior they're comfortable with. The only important thing is keeping your own boundaries... wherever they may be, else you're making deposits on resentment.


Oh lord. Good for you dude. Get some edge. So you are cool with all this. Wondermous. Your choice. Most husbands are not so down with this. But I will speak for myself. NFW.


----------



## Entropy3000

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Its a thin line. You gotta see if they're dancing with each other to get reactions from guys, or if they're dancing with each other just to dance with each other.
> 
> You can usually key on how much they're looking around and aware of the guys. The ones not looking around and paying attention to guy's reactions are going to shut you down... and sometimes its ugly... and funny.


Ok so this is going down the PUA road. LOL.


----------



## committed4ever

Entropy3000 said:


> Actually all he has are pictures of the ladies dancing. he has no idea what else if anything went on or did not go on.
> 
> But this topic opend up a further trendy discussion on the topic. Is it ok with the married guys here for their wives to twerk with other men? Grind? I get these are seen as differtn things but alcohol. music and sexiness blurs the lines.
> 
> So are we all ok with wive on a GNO trip :
> 
> *1) Twerking with other wives ( original thread post )
> 
> 2) Twerking with other men
> 
> 3) Grinding with other men
> 
> 4) Wearing short dress and thong with any of the above. *
> So OP, what were these women wearing again? Jeans? Or what when they were bending over and shaking their behinds in a F'ing motion?
> 
> And yes many husbands do not care at all what their wives get into. I have heard one guy say to his wife, don't do anything you cannot wash off. Seriously. Well she did ... they got divorced over it.


Speaking for my H he is not down with any of this. He not down with me even dancing with another man period unless he related to me. 

As for me, I'm not down with it either. I have done my share of GNO but I don't even talk to men in that atmosphere. It was just to be with my female friends. And we never did the dance with each other thing. They would dance with other men but I didn't If I'm on the dance floor it's with my H. And he have declare he have outgrown clubs. Too bad. He's really a good dancer. We still dance at weddings and gathering like that.


----------



## Entropy3000

always_alone said:


> Fair enough. Just pointing out that maybe all these guys who have women falling into their laps and offering room keys and so on, might be the ones who are sending the wrong signals.
> 
> Certainly I would start worrying if my SO brought home too many of these stories. I wouldn't assume that it was just the women contributing to the dynamic.


Trust me I ask myself this.

I am guilty of being genuine. Hey you cannot have it both ways. If you attack the PUA guys and just say that women are attracted to genuine guys not trying to pick them up them BINGO. You got me baby. 

Sorry, I enjoy the company of smart capable women. I am genuine with them. I am not Derek Jeter. I do have status in my realm. I suppose I could isolate myself and run the ladies off but I find them engaging. I am guilty of this I guess. Preselection plays a role here. I probably come off as a compassionate confident cuddly guy ... from out of town. That is important BTW. I am from out of town and have a hotel room.

I tend to ask questions about their careers and so on. I listen. 

But your point IS valid. What signals go out. I am a fun guy. My inner sailor comes out I suppose. But I am responsible for myself. I can say no. And I do. So why do I need to change who I am? I have never offered a woman a key. 

But hey, I may very well be a guy who looks like someone worth cuddling up with. Idunno. But what a woman chooses to do is on her. 

Keep in mind not all guys are like me. Some are looking to hookup. That is the takeaway here.

You know women are sexual beings too. Many many women like intimacy with a man. 

If I was grinding on women on the dance floor I would agree I am sending the wrong signal.

BTW, note that the OP called these women ... cougars. LOL. That has its own connotation.


----------



## Entropy3000

committed4ever said:


> Speaking for my H he is not down with any of this. He not down with me even dancing with another man period unless he related to me.
> 
> *I like your hubby and agree with him.*
> 
> As for me, I'm not down with it either. I have done my share of GNO but I don't even talk to men in that atmosphere. It was just to be with my female friends. And we never did the dance with each other thing. They would dance with other men but I didn't If I'm on the dance floor it's with my H. And he have declare he have outgrown clubs. Too bad. He's really a good dancer. We still dance at weddings and gathering like that.


I think dancing is a great thing. I encourage husbands to do this with their wives. Not fair to say no dancing with other men and then say they will not dance.

I enjoy dancing but I will not get on the floor with anyone but my wife. In some cultures men dance together. LOL. Not me. No thanks.

I am for sure not going to be grinding on a woman from behind wiht my hands on her belly and caressing her all over. That would be very sexual and I see as foreplay. Some people think this is fine. Not something I could do. That is playing just the tip for me.


----------



## TiggyBlue

Entropy3000 said:


> BTW, note that the OP called these womeb ... cougars. LOL. That has its own connotation.


Yep that was noted, they where wholesome moms (I think they were referred to as women once in the post, but mostly they were moms) now after the picture of them twerking they are cougars lol.


----------



## Anon Pink

I hate what is going on in this thread. Such clear pronouncements of what behavior is acceptable for what age combined with incredible mind reading!

You know when the waltz was first introduced, it scandalized society because men and women were so close to each other. Those who dared to dance MUST have been harlots, jezebels, and unfaithful wives.

You all sound like a pack of church ladies from the 50's! 

::Insert sarcasm faunt because I am certain too many wont be able to tell:::

....Cause when I dance the only thing on my mind is making sure that every bad boy in the club singles my ass out for the low hanging fruit that it is, knows that with the right line, and a drink, he's got the key to my pants!

...Because us old cougar ladies really should NEVER dance in public, because if we move badly we are just old but if we move well we are on the make and looking to get laid.

:::add disgusted hair ball cough and annoying eye roll:::::


----------



## Entropy3000

TiggyBlue said:


> Yep that was noted, they where wholesome moms (I think they were referred to as women once in the post, but mostly they were moms) now after the picture of them twerking they are cougars lol.


It was at least a subliminal message to us. LOL.

You know, I think the chances that this case was entirely innocent is very good if not probable. I totally get it. I even get the ladies staging this for impact. Likely.

But we need to be honest, the play in this thread is more about the topic than what happened in this situation. We have no idea what that situation was about. We can all assume anything we want. 

But again, I am very much an observer in how our culture is changing. FB included.

My bosses boss read the riot act to one of my female colleagues as to what she is posting on FB. His view is more about the companies reputation as anything else.


----------



## TiggyBlue

Entropy3000 said:


> In some cultures men dance together. LOL. Not me. No thanks.


Now a picture of my husband twerking with other men on fb would make me p*ss myself laughing.


----------



## Caribbean Man

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> These are always the older ones!!! What gives?
> 
> Is there an age that a woman will suddenly go from being young, stingy and sexually conservative to older and totally freaky? Or are these women just the same very sexual women further down the line? They are so dirty they almost make ME blush!


Devils,
You're asking answers man!

My wife is 46 and sometimes I forget that she_ was_ actually a virgin when we got married..
Something happened around 6 yrs ago to that sweet, innocent, girl I married that changed what happens in the bedroom.
I don't know what happened,
But I love it , and I won't exchange her for a younger version, 
EVER!


----------



## Caribbean Man

Anon Pink said:


> I hate what is going on in this thread. Such clear pronouncements of what behavior is acceptable for what age combined with incredible mind reading!
> 
> You know when the waltz was first introduced, it scandalized society because men and women were so close to each other. Those who dared to dance MUST have been harlots, jezebels, and unfaithful wives.
> 
> You all sound like a pack of church ladies from the 50's!
> 
> ::Insert sarcasm faunt because I am certain too many wont be able to tell:::
> 
> ....Cause when I dance the only thing on my mind is making sure that every bad boy in the club singles my ass out for the low hanging fruit that it is, knows that with the right line, and a drink, he's got the key to my pants!
> 
> ...Because us old cougar ladies really should NEVER dance in public, because if we move badly we are just old but if we move well we are on the make and looking to get laid.
> 
> :::add disgusted hair ball cough and annoying eye roll:::::



That's what I've been saying throughout this entire thread , but used a more covert approach.

The thing is that women's sexuality seem to peak around 40- ish.
Something I never knew before my wife hit that 40 yr mark.

I could fully understand them wanting to express themselves that way , given what's happening to them sexually and emotionally.
After 40 its 50 and then that's it, home stretch, final 100 yds in the relay of life.

My only advice is be safe , know your boundaries , and enjoy life to its fullest.


----------



## Anon Pink

Caribbean Man said:


> I don't know what happened,
> But I love it , and I won't exchange her for a younger version,
> EVER!


Can I suggest that your wife finally got sick and tired of the narrow lines that defined her as a good wife or a good woman?

There is a measure of backlash that happens once a woman figures out that she defines herself, and not the other way around. She thumbs her nose at those who wish to keep her behavior in check and ascribe meaning where none belongs, or ascribe the wrong meaning.

Women my age Twerking: Similar to mooning someone. It's a big "F You" to society for attempts to place me in a box of control that is mistakenly called propriety.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Some of us were hot to trot before we got old.


----------



## TiggyBlue

Anon Pink said:


> I hate what is going on in this thread. Such clear pronouncements of what behavior is acceptable for what age combined with incredible mind reading!
> 
> You know when the waltz was first introduced, it scandalized society because men and women were so close to each other. Those who dared to dance MUST have been harlots, jezebels, and unfaithful wives.
> 
> You all sound like a pack of church ladies from the 50's!
> 
> ::Insert sarcasm faunt because I am certain too many wont be able to tell:::
> 
> ....Cause when I dance the only thing on my mind is making sure that every bad boy in the club singles my ass out for the low hanging fruit that it is, knows that with the right line, and a drink, he's got the key to my pants!
> 
> ...Because us old cougar ladies really should NEVER dance in public, because if we move badly we are just old but if we move well we are on the make and looking to get laid.
> 
> :::add disgusted hair ball cough and annoying eye roll:::::



I'm confused :scratchhead:
It almost sounds like you don't see people who ridicule worthy of appeasing .


----------



## Entropy3000

Caribbean Man said:


> That's what I've been saying throughout this entire thread , but used a more covert approach.
> 
> The thing is that women's sexuality seem to peak around 40- ish.
> Something I never knew before my wife hit that 40 yr mark.
> 
> I could fully understand them wanting to express themselves that way , given what's happening to them sexually and emotionally.
> After 40 its 50 and then that's it, home stretch, final 100 yds in the relay of life.
> 
> My only advice is be safe , know your boundaries , and enjoy life to its fullest.


I for one totally get this. I also get the dismay in husbands with the change in behavior. Just saying you have always trusted her so why stop now is not havibg a grasp on things IMO. This is a big change to deal with. It takes new and better boundaries. Not the status quo. Things sometimes need to be revisited that had been settled long ago or were never and issue before.

Also while men have their Viagra and Cialis and T Gels so do women have HRT and vaginal reconstructions and so on. Not trying to turn off the younger folks but people 40+ are more in the game IMO than they used to be. Some will jsut say Eeeeeewwwww. LOL. But it is true.

Women no longer have to go to the doctors and get their hysteria treated.  They can go to the club. j/k

And BTW not all men are focused on 25 y/o super models. It is nice to engage with a woman who has a clue and some experience of her own.


----------



## Entropy3000

Anon Pink said:


> Can I suggest that your wife finally got sick and tired of the narrow lines that defined her as a good wife or a good woman?
> 
> *There is a measure of backlash that happens once a woman figures out that she defines herself, and not the other way around.* She thumbs her nose at those who wish to keep her behavior in check and ascribe meaning where none belongs, or ascribe the wrong meaning.
> 
> Women my age Twerking: Similar to mooning someone. It's a big "F You" to society for attempts to place me in a box of control that is mistakenly called propriety.


The red above is one of the things I was talking about in the changes that occur in women as they get older. They act out or assert themselves depending on your view.

Bare @$$ mooning or exposing too much skin indeed is common. Baring boobs and so on. Yes this happens. Some just like to go braless and go out of their way to rub up against certain mens backs. I am sure that is a big thrill. I can tell from the hard nipples frankly. It must be chilly. A lot of ooops excuse me.

But you are not a happy camper. You feel you are in a box. I get it. But this box can be viewed as boundaries. But you make a valid point. You get a rebellion not unlike the age of 17. Then you get the peer pressure too. Changing ones boundaries impacts both partners. Acting single is very common that can sometimes lead to being ... single. You are now invoking the property thing. Your body is yours and you will do what you want with it and with whom. I get it. But how fair is this to your partner I have to ask?

My wife came back from one of her conventions with a fake tattoo on her ankle about ten years ago. Ok it was funny and all. A bonding thing. If it was a real one on her @$$, I would be a single man today. Woohooo!!!! I would not be cool with that. Many men would let it go. But I already raised my teenagers.


----------



## Caribbean Man

TiggyBlue said:


> I'm confused :scratchhead:
> It almost sounds like you don't see people who ridicule worthy of appeasing .


" _People gon talk whether you doin' bad or good_."
- Rhianna.

One of my absolute favourite Rhiannas. 

I'll Drink To That [ Cheers ] - Rhianna.

lol, Sh'e giving a " _Caribbean Twerk _" to one of her security detail @ 1.30 ,lol, he looks embarrassed.
She's probably telling heim ,
" _this is how we do it in Barbados _."

Seriously though , can't live your life to please other people.


----------



## Entropy3000

Caribbean Man said:


> " _People gon talk whether you doin' bad or good_."
> - Rhianna.
> 
> One of my absolute favourite Rhiannas.
> 
> I'll Drink To That [ Cheers ] - Rhianna.
> 
> lol, Sh'e giving a " _Caribbean Twerk _" to one of her security detail @ 1.30 ,lol, he looks embarrassed.
> She's probably telling heim ,
> " _this is how we do it in Barbados _."
> 
> Seriously though , can't live your life to please other people.


I think if you do not live your life to please you and your partner you need to be single. It is not about pleasing other people. Only your spouse. When pleasing your spouse becomes unimportant you are done. 

If you do things to spite your partner ... you are a very cruel and unhappy person.

I hate when these threads degenerate into I am not property ... If you have to prove to your spouse you are not their property you need to leave. And yes I have seen these scenarios. I know they exist. Do not put up with it.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Entropy3000 said:


> I think if you do not live your life to please you and your partner you need to be single. It is not abut pleasing other people. Only your spouse. When pleasing your spouse becomes unimportant you are done.
> 
> If you do things to spite your partner ... you are a very cruel and unhappy person.
> 
> I hate when these threads degenerate into I am not property ... If you have to prove to your spouse you are not their property you need to leave. And yes I have seen these scenarios. I know they exist. Do not put up with it.


:iagree:

But that problem starts when two married people view themselves, and operate as individuals rather than a interdependent unit.

A husband is supposed to know his wife's emotional state of being and what she's going through.
At 45 most women are basically burnt out from raising kids, maintaining a house and so forth, but their hormones are raging and their bodies changing. The kids are old enough now, she wants to have some fun in the bedroom and outside of the bedroom.

I believe that a husband is supposed to know these things and help his wife through it, just like she's supposed to support him during his mid life and many other crisis.
Let her know that she's not alone in how she feels.
If she has good supportive friends , and wants to have good clean adult fun then so be it. Just as long as proper marital boundaries are agreed to and enforced before.

Husband may not like the club environs , and for good reasons.
Then why can't they have their own party , invite her lady friends and do their own wild stuff ? Whether it is " twerking" or whatever. 
She just want's to break free for a little.
Not from her marriage , but from all of the heavy constraints and responsibilities that life placed on her shoulders.

Both you and I know that there are male equivalents to this.

Surely,
That is not an unreasonable request?


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Entropy3000 said:


> Reread my post. I am asking this question. Trying get where peoples boundaries are.
> 
> We actually do not know what happened.
> 
> My question stands.
> 
> I am glad you do not care about clothing, but it matters. Bending over and having your boobs slip out or showing your bare @$$ to guys is much different that have a shirt and jeans on. No comparison actually. Sorry bare natural breasts swinging free for all to see and bending over wiggling your behind matter to many. I get why you are ok with with it. You are their to watch the women and to hookup or meet women if you can. So your view is going to be pro party and you go girl. It is your agenda. Perhpas you can even make some points here on TAM with the pro party crowd. I get it. Not saying it is your intention but it is for some single guys here. To discuss marriage and meet women. Yes some of the ladies actually tell others about the PMs they get from some guys. LOL.


Oh okay. I haven't read the whole thread so I thought you had information I hadn't read. Your point is fair and I understand where you're coming from. I guess I just come from the opposite end of the spectrum where my ex wasn't interested in doing anything edgy at all. She was always less assertive/bold around me than she was around other people, and I often wished she had some girlfriends to liven her up a little and break the mommy monotony. She basically became a homebody.

Surely you don't think I'm playing women in PMs. I'm probably the least popular guy here! I'm well aware that my spewing every unpopular thought has put me on many a mysognistic a-hole list. Then there's the crowd that thinks I'm still married after my affair partner showed up.

Its really just that I don't think that women are up to no good when they do these things. The ones that are will find a way to misbehave anyway. Regardless, we agree that a couple should be on the same page.

If he's not cool with it she shouldn't be doing it.


----------



## Entropy3000

Caribbean Man said:


> :iagree:
> 
> But that problem starts when two married people view themselves, and operate as individuals rather than a interdependent unit.
> 
> A husband is supposed to know his wife's emotional state of being and what she's going through.
> At 45 most women are basically burnt out from raising kids, maintaining a house and so forth, but their hormones are raging and their bodies changing. The kids are old enough now, she wants to have some fun in the bedroom and outside of the bedroom.
> 
> I believe that a husband is supposed to know these things and help his wife through it, just like she's supposed to support him during his mid life and many other crisis.
> Let her know that she's not alone in how she feels.
> If she has good supportive friends , and wants to have good clean adult fun then so be it. Just as long as proper marital boundaries are agreed to and enforced before.
> 
> Husband may not like the club environs , and for good reasons.
> Then why can't they have their own party , invite her lady friends and do their own wild stuff ? Whether it is " twerking" or whatever.
> She just want's to break free for a little.
> Not from her marriage , but from all of the heavy constraints and responsibilities that life placed on her shoulders.
> 
> Both you and I know that there are male equivalents to this.
> 
> Surely,
> That is not an unreasonable request?


I am one of those who tries to understand. You know this. But understanding and accepting are two different things. It depends.

Now you propose they have a marriage friendly party without other men? Go for it. Twerk away. It is the combo of the club and this kind of stuff I have issue with. Again it is one thing for the ladies to have fun with this and another to do it for real. 

I am all for sheer nighties panties and pillow fights too? 

Now the videos that get put on FB .... that depends.


----------



## Anon Pink

Entropy3000 said:


> The red above is one of the things I was talking about in the changes that occur in women as they get older. They act out or assert themselves depending on your view.
> 
> Bare @$$ mooning or exposing too much skin indeed is common. Baring boobs and so on. Yes this happens. Some just like to go braless and go out of their way to rub up against certain mens backs. I am sure that is a big thrill. I can tell from the hard nipples frankly. It must be chilly. A lot of ooops excuse me.
> 
> *Seriously? Where the hell do you work, at the bunny ranch? Where is it common for anybody to moon others now a days?
> 
> Going braless automatically means....she wants your eyes on her breasts? By the way, I frequently go braless to avoid bone pain. If a bra strap is tight enough to do its job, its too tight for me. Should I start wearing a vest over everything else to ensure my boobies don't cause undue attention? Get over yourself.*
> 
> But you are not a happy camper. You feel you are in a box. I get it. But this box can be viewed as boundaries. But you make a valid point. You get a rebellion not unlike the age of 17. Then you get the peer pressure too. Changing ones boundaries impacts both partners. Acting single is very common that can sometimes lead to being ... single. You are now invoking the property thing. Your body is yours and you will do what you want with it and with whom. I get it. But how fair is this to your partner I have to ask?
> 
> *I don't feel like I'm in a box. haven't been in a box for a good 10 years now...and it's lovely! Peer pressure? You must be thinking of some other pumpkin just off the bus? You call dancing and having a GNO acting single. Dancing is acting single? Thats really sad. *
> 
> My wife came back from one of her conventions with a fake tattoo on her ankle about ten years ago. Ok it was funny and all. A bonding thing. If it was a real one on her @$$, I would be a single man today. Woohooo!!!! I would not be cool with that. Many men would let it go. But I already raised my teenagers.


You already raised your teenagers? A wife going out dancing with friends is a rebellion and acting single? 

Do you realize how unbelievably condescending that is? 

Sometimes it's not about you at all, maybe this hurts your feelings because you think everything a married person does should be about the marriage. But sometimes, it's just about the music and loving life.


----------



## Anon Pink

FrenchFry said:


> I'm just throwing this out there:
> 
> Golden Sisters Twerk Like Miley - YouTube


You go girl!
:smthumbup:


----------



## Entropy3000

Anon Pink said:


> You already raised your teenagers? A wife going out dancing with friends is a rebellion and acting single?
> 
> Do you realize how unbelievably condescending that is?
> 
> Sometimes it's not about you at all, maybe this hurts your feelings because you think everything a married person does should be about the marriage. But sometimes, it's just about the music and loving life.


You said you are no ones property. This was mentioned earlier about the changes women go through.

It is not news that many women act like teenagers at this age. I am NOT breaking new ground here. It is what it is. If you are mooning and rebelling against people ... your husband in particular, this is acting like a teenager. If you are out to prove no one owns you then these are similar to daddy issues. Doing this in your 40s while understandable is also acting like a teenager. I get it. I do so myself at times. I get it.

Anon, I am not going to give you a you go girl if you are doing things like this and your hubby is bothered by it. If he is ok then fine. But you know what the truth is.

My comments are about what I would accept. Twerk away.

Guys act out too. It is a stage of life. Not everyone makes it through still married.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Entropy3000 said:


> Ok so this is going down the PUA road. LOL.


I only brought that up to give you perspective. I don't go after the groups of women who are seemingly annoyed by any man that talks to them. They're doing their girl thing and they don't want me. At most they want a short playful exchange and then for me to go away. lol

And they're pretty clear about it... when they're nice, they say "now go away you... shoo". 

Some of the rejections will really make you laugh, because these women are all taken they tend to be short and blunt. I think they like shutting guys down.


----------



## ReformedHubby

A couple of posters have asked what they were wearing. I don't think its fair for me to answer that. They weren't dressed inappropriately in my opinion. 

I'm not trying to make everybody live under my set of boundaries. I made the post because from what my wife and I know of them the behavior seemed out of character. It made me think that perhaps a lot of us don't really know how our spouses are going to react in certain group settings until those scenarios present themselves. I still feel that if I saw something that out of character from my wife I would have went to go pick her up. I do think sometimes that we as spouses are obligated to protect our significant others from making boneheaded decisions. How is it not boneheaded to twerk on your girlfriends and then immediately post it on facebook, if you are a responsible adult?


----------



## Anon Pink

Entropy3000 said:


> You said you are no ones property. This was mentioned earlier about the changes women go through.
> 
> It is not news that many women act like teenagers at this age. I am NOT breaking new ground here. It is what it is. If you are mooning and rebelling against people ... your husband in particular, this is acting like a teenager. If you are out to prove no one owns you then these are similar to daddy issues. Doing this in your 40s while understandable is also acting like a teenager. I get it. I do so myself at times. I get it.
> 
> Anon, I am not going to give you a you go girl if you are doing things like this and your hubby is bothered by it. If he is ok then fine. But you know what the truth is.
> 
> My comments are about what I would accept. Twerk away.
> 
> Guys act out too. It is a stage of life. Not everyone makes it through still married.


You really need to go back and reads the actual words I wrote.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Entropy3000 said:


> I am one of those who tries to understand. You know this. But understanding and accepting are two different things. It depends.
> 
> Now you propose they have a marriage friendly party without other men? Go for it. Twerk away. It is the combo of the club and this kind of stuff I have issue with. Again it is one thing for the ladies to have fun with this and another to do it for real.
> 
> I am all for sheer nighties panties and pillow fights too?
> 
> Now the videos that get put on FB .... that depends.


Ok.

All I can give is my wife as an example.
It may be purely anecdotal , but here goes.

My wife does not like the party crowds or loud music.
But,
She likes to travel with her girlfriends to exotic destinations . Right no I haven't got enough time for that because of business.
But she wants to travel and have fun with them, and I suspect that even if I have time I wouldn't be interested in going on an all girls vacation.
so, my mom goes with them, and they still have all the fun in the world.
They meet new people of interest , shop ,learn new stuff , take wild pictures,[ lol, I have posted pics of her on vacation ,right here on TAM, but there are those " wild pics" that I definitely would not post!], and generally ' let her hair down."

I'm not talking about doing anything that she wouldn't want me to see or know of. Just fun stuff.
She's an adult and supposed to know her boundaries.

If she was into the party stuff, there are clubs that cater to mature people her age in our town. I'm sure I wouldn't have a problem with it .
In any event I would most definitely go party and twerk with her!
Hell, in real life my wife and I go to a sports bar to play billards [ shoot pool ] on a regular basis. We have fun. Whenever she wins a game , she usually bends over and push her butt against my groin, and jiggle it a bit to the music, while looking back at me mischievously.

I'm saying husband & wife should have fun, even going to a club to dance and loosen up. If the husband does not want to go, and the wife has good friends of the marriage that you both can trust, then I see no problem .
However, if the wife doesn't want her husband around when she's twerking or dancing in a club ,then there's a bigger problem in that marriage ,than the clubbing or twerking.


----------



## Anon Pink

ReformedHubby said:


> A couple of posters have asked what they were wearing. I don't think its fair for me to answer that. They weren't dressed inappropriately in my opinion.
> 
> I'm not trying to make everybody live under my set of boundaries. I made the post because from what my wife and I know of them the behavior seemed out of character. It made me think that perhaps a lot of us don't really know how our spouses are going to react in certain group settings until those scenarios present themselves. I still feel that if I saw something that out of character from my wife I would have went to go pick her up. I do think sometimes that we as spouses are obligated to protect our significant others from making boneheaded decisions. How is it not boneheaded to twerk on your girlfriends and then immediately post it on facebook, if you are a responsible adult?


Posting it on FB was beyond stupid.

But it's highly likely the truth of that event is NOT what is being ascribed within this thread. Having seen MANY a group of married women on a GNO or Girls weekend... Yes some wild fun times, like first hearing about Twerking, first seeing it, then seeing if this is something a middle aged body can do, then laughing you ass off when you realize nope!


----------



## Entropy3000

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Oh okay. I haven't read the whole thread so I thought you had information I hadn't read. Your point is fair and I understand where you're coming from. I guess I just come from the opposite end of the spectrum where my ex wasn't interested in doing anything edgy at all. She was always less assertive/bold around me than she was around other people, and I often wished she had some girlfriends to liven her up a little and break the mommy monotony. She basically became a homebody.
> 
> Surely you don't think I'm playing women in PMs. I'm probably the least popular guy here! I'm well aware that my spewing every unpopular thought has put me on many a mysognistic a-hole list. Then there's the crowd that thinks I'm still married after my affair partner showed up.
> 
> Its really just that I don't think that women are up to no good when they do these things. The ones that are will find a way to misbehave anyway. Regardless, we agree that a couple should be on the same page.
> 
> If he's not cool with it she shouldn't be doing it.


I am not accusing you of anything. But there are guys who play that game here. 

I get that you are ok with this. Cool. I bet I would have a differetn view if I was single as well. It is natural.


----------



## committed4ever

FrenchFry said:


> I'm just throwing this out there:
> 
> Golden Sisters Twerk Like Miley - YouTube


The one in the white capris have a clue. The other two: :rofl:


----------



## Entropy3000

> Originally Posted by Entropy3000 View Post
> The red above is one of the things I was talking about in the changes that occur in women as they get older. They act out or assert themselves depending on your view.
> 
> Bare @$$ mooning or exposing too much skin indeed is common. Baring boobs and so on. Yes this happens. Some just like to go braless and go out of their way to rub up against certain mens backs. I am sure that is a big thrill. I can tell from the hard nipples frankly. It must be chilly. A lot of ooops excuse me.
> 
> *Going braless automatically means....she wants your eyes on her breasts? *
> 
> *How about you read what I wrote. I wrote going braless and purposely running their boobs over your back. Read the whole thing. I am not talking gray areas here. I love the llook of braless though. On most women anyway.
> *
> 
> *By the way, I frequently go braless to avoid bone pain. If a bra strap is tight enough to do its job, its too tight for me. Should I start wearing a vest over everything else to ensure my boobies don't cause undue attention? *
> 
> *Again read what I posted. Also if going braless and twerking has your breasts swinging free I say that this is not something I am ok with my wife doing. I am talking about bare breasts clearly visible. Nipples and breast on full display. Not just braless and swinging free under a blouse as hot as that may be.*
> 
> *Get over yourself.*
> 
> *No. I guess I am breaking the code by telling what goes on.* *I am not easily shouted down and you know this.* *I am simply reporting my observations and indeed my opinions.*
> 
> But you are not a happy camper. You feel you are in a box. I get it. But this box can be viewed as boundaries. But you make a valid point. You get a rebellion not unlike the age of 17. Then you get the peer pressure too. Changing ones boundaries impacts both partners. Acting single is very common that can sometimes lead to being ... single. You are now invoking the property thing. Your body is yours and you will do what you want with it and with whom. I get it. But how fair is this to your partner I have to ask?
> 
> *I don't feel like I'm in a box. haven't been in a box for a good 10 years now...and it's lovely! Peer pressure? You must be thinking of some other pumpkin just off the bus? You call dancing and having a GNO acting single. Dancing is acting single? Thats really sad.*
> 
> *I am going by your previous posts on this subject. You have clearly stated you are not happy. Also I am talking about twerking. I am expanding it to the need for some woemn at this age to push the boundaries hard for whatever reason. If your hubby is ok with this then good for him.*
> 
> My wife came back from one of her conventions with a fake tattoo on her ankle about ten years ago. Ok it was funny and all. A bonding thing. If it was a real one on her @$$, I would be a single man today. Woohooo!!!! I would not be cool with that. Many men would let it go. But I already raised my teenagers.


----------



## norajane

Anon Pink said:


> You all sound like a pack of church ladies from the 50's!


Even church ladies are open to to having a little fun.

See:



FrenchFry said:


> I'm just throwing this out there:
> 
> Golden Sisters Twerk Like Miley - YouTube


----------



## Entropy3000

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I only brought that up to give you perspective. I don't go after the groups of women who are seemingly annoyed by any man that talks to them. They're doing their girl thing and they don't want me. At most they want a short playful exchange and then for me to go away. lol
> 
> And they're pretty clear about it... when they're nice, they say "now go away you... shoo".
> 
> Some of the rejections will really make you laugh, because these women are all taken they tend to be short and blunt. I think they like shutting guys down.


Great to know. I have never even when single had to pursue women in this way.

Good to know you get shot down.


----------



## Entropy3000

ReformedHubby said:


> A couple of posters have asked what they were wearing. I don't think its fair for me to answer that. They weren't dressed inappropriately in my opinion.
> 
> I'm not trying to make everybody live under my set of boundaries. I made the post because from what my wife and I know of them the behavior seemed out of character. It made me think that perhaps a lot of us don't really know how our spouses are going to react in certain group settings until those scenarios present themselves. I still feel that if I saw something that out of character from my wife I would have went to go pick her up. I do think sometimes that we as spouses are obligated to protect our significant others from making boneheaded decisions. How is it not boneheaded to twerk on your girlfriends and then immediately post it on facebook, if you are a responsible adult?


Ok, so rather than answer it directly you leave it to everyones imagination? I get that you felt it was inappropriate. But what was it exactly? Again there are those that say it does not matter and they are out of their minds that it does not matter. A womans sex appeal in a club is directly related to her clothing. Showing skin is one way of getting attention.

But my point was related to twerking. Was what they wore exposing much when beinding over and twerking for all to view? I think that doing so says much.

So blur the faces and post it then. LOL.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Anon Pink said:


> Yes some wild fun times, like first hearing about Twerking, first seeing it, then seeing if this is something a middle aged body can do, t*hen laughing you ass off when you realize nope!*


That's ^^^my point.

It's not likely to be like a lifestyle change or anything, it's just for a little " silly season."
I really don't think a married 45 + yr old woman want's to become the
" _dancehall queen of twerk_ ", or anything like that.

It's just clean fun, among trusted friends, for change and for a season.


----------



## Caribbean Man

People,
I think we're getting our wires crossed in this thread. So let's try to clarify:

Category 1
I think there's nothing wrong with people in healthy marriages having fun with friends apart from each other within the bounds of what they both agree to be appropriate. People's values vary based on religious beliefs etc.

Category 2
People whose marriages have serious problems especially with extra marital affairs need to evaluate everything on a case by case basis, especially if the problem centers around overly seeking external validation.

I am assuming we're dealing with the former category in this thread, ie: People in relatively ,healthy marriages.

Am I wrong?


----------



## theroad

This thread is useless without pictures.


----------



## Entropy3000

theroad said:


> This thread is useless without pictures.


So true.


----------



## I Notice The Details

theroad said:


> This thread is useless without pictures.


Yea....what the hell? Ten long pages and no pics of these ladies?????? :rofl:


----------



## always_alone

Entropy3000 said:


> Trust me I ask myself this.


Glad to hear it.

I don't know you, but in many, many of your posts you talk about how engaging other women are, how much you enjoy their company, how you appreciate their looks, how you love spending time with them. You also admit to having very weak boundaries that you struggle to enforce in the face of temptation.

Do you think the women who "fall into your lap" are oblivious to all of this?


----------



## Fozzy

Wow. This thread escalated quickly.


----------



## Entropy3000

always_alone said:


> Glad to hear it.
> 
> I don't know you, but in many, many of your posts you talk about how engaging other women are, how much you enjoy their company, how you appreciate their looks, how you love spending time with them. You also admit to having very weak boundaries that you struggle to enforce in the face of temptation.
> 
> Do you think the women who "fall into your lap" are oblivious to all of this?


You are correct.

I think I am being honest and know there are risks. I do see the dangers. Do we all have tunnel vision? Oh yeah.

Yes, I do think they see this. I am saying as much. I am more vulnerable than many guys. I know my kryptonite. But I know that no one is perfect and I know that we can push things too far. I am outspoken on this on purpose.

I do like good looking women, like most men do. However I particulary enjoy engaging with highly intelligent ones. Confident ones. Capable ones. They are my kryptonite. Is that dangerous? Very very possibly. Let's just say yes.

I have a very agressive professional persona. I am passionate. BUT I have a great soft side too when my armor is off. I actually care about people. The other criticism I have ever gotten from management is that I care too much about people. I embrace that though but every strength is also a weakness.

So yes. I hear you. I am very human in this way and you make very fair comment. Am I on thin ice? Arguably so.


----------



## I Notice The Details

Fozzy said:


> Wow. This thread escalated quickly.


This small, ladies only incident has quickly spread like wild fire....

Just think how many pages it would have been if pictures where included!


----------



## Caribbean Man

Entropy3000 said:


> Y
> 
> I do like good looking women, like most men do. *However I particulary enjoy engaging with highly intelligent ones. Confident ones. Capable ones.*




Looks like we both have this^^^ in common.
Powerful women too, intrigue me.
But I won't really say that they're my kryptonite.

Personally for me, it takes a certain type of personality traits blending with mine before any chemistry starts flowing.


----------



## Entropy3000

Caribbean Man said:


> Looks like we both have this^^^ in common.
> Powerful women too, intrigue me.
> But I won't really say that they're my kryptonite.
> 
> Personally for me, it takes a certain type of personality traits blending with mine before any chemistry starts flowing.


This is what I am sayng as well. But I am going further and saying that if I have a blind spot. A relative weak spot it is with these types of women. Knowing you have this is important. The biggest turn off is women that feel compelled to dumb it down.


----------



## ReformedHubby

theroad said:


> This thread is useless without pictures.


No can do. I wouldn't want to post anything that could reveal who they are. They are still my wife's friends/acquaintances after all.


----------



## Entropy3000

ReformedHubby said:


> No can do. I wouldn't want to post anything that could reveal who they are. They are still my wife's friends/acquaintances after all.


<cheap shot>

Someone may recognize the lower back tattoo. Or worse.

<cheap shot/>


----------



## Faithful Wife

Just use yer skillz and blurr out the faces!

Or just find a similar pic....since there are literally millions of them in a quick image search.


----------



## ReformedHubby

Entropy3000 said:


> <cheap shot>
> 
> Someone may recognize the lower back tattoo. Or worse.
> 
> <cheap shot/>


I'm actually quite paranoid now. I am worried that I may have given away too much in the original post how many women in that demographic posted pics of twerking recently. Not many I'd imagine.


----------



## ReformedHubby

I didn't have all that much time today, still don't really. I am somewhat surprised after looking at all the replies. I don't understand why its such a big deal that many of us want our spouse to behave like a mature adult instead of a spring breaker. I don't want to twist what some people posted, but from my interpretation some of the posts read as though twerking is somehow liberating for an older woman. How exactly is this liberating?


----------



## Faithful Wife

If you could do it yourself, you wouldn't ask how it is liberating.

It feels incredible to actually do it correctly. I get all my practice at home, though.


----------



## Entropy3000

ReformedHubby said:


> I'm actually quite paranoid now. I am worried that I may have given away too much in the original post how many women in that demographic posted pics of twerking recently. Not many I'd imagine.


You gave away nothing. The number of these things happening due to trendy events must be astronomical.

What would one google for anyway. Twerking wives? There is bound to be a porn site like that already. No I have not checked.

Either you are ok with your wife going on trip GNOs clubbing with these women or you are not. You have to decide.

As hard as I take my stand I actually get how women could toy with this briefly in a very innocent way. But as I have said what they were wearing could influence my opinion. But that is just me. 

So what does your wife think and say about this?

I think getting naked in a hot tub with some female freinds would make me feel quite liberated. I know many people on TAM do this already amnd think nothing of it. But it would be very liberating to me. Maybe I could post it on FB. That would make it ok and my wife would be cool with it of course. Doing liberating things is always good.


----------



## Entropy3000

Faithful Wife said:


> If you could do it yourself, you wouldn't ask how it is liberating.
> 
> It feels incredible to actually do it correctly. I get all my practice at home, though.


Even I get this.


----------



## ReformedHubby

Faithful Wife said:


> If you could do it yourself, you wouldn't ask how it is liberating.
> 
> It feels incredible to actually do it correctly. I get all my practice at home, though.


Well....the truth is I can do it. But like C4E's husband only as a joke. Its definitely not a dance that was intended for hetero men.


----------



## ReformedHubby

Entropy3000 said:


> So what does your wife think and say about this?


My wife was not happy with it. She is the one that showed me the pics. She hadn't seen that side of them before so she was disappointed that they put themselves out there like that. Its not like she will stop speaking to them or anything like that, but I would imagine there are certain activities that she will just decline to attend with that particular group.


Also, since you've asked a lot of times they were wearing your typical summer dresses of varying lengths with sandals. Nothing too risque, they were all looking good of course, but there isn't anything wrong with that.


----------



## Entropy3000

ReformedHubby said:


> My wife was not happy with it. She is the one that showed me the pics. She hadn't seen that side of them before so she was disappointed that they put themselves out there like that. Its not like she will stop speaking to them or anything like that, but I would imagine there are certain activities that she will just decline to attend with that particular group.
> 
> 
> Also, since you've asked a lot of times they were wearing your typical summer dresses of varying lengths with sandals. Nothing too risque, they were all looking good of course, but there isn't anything wrong with that.


Understood. Agreed. Looking good is a wonderful thing. A woman looking good is awesome. We just do not like our wives to look like they are on the prowl and degrading themselves. 

Well good then. So really this was a good thing that your wife and you could discuss together. That is very cool.


----------



## Maricha75

Faithful Wife said:


> If you could do it yourself, you wouldn't ask how it is liberating.
> 
> It feels incredible to actually do it correctly. I get all my practice at home, though.


See, you would have to actually have a desire to do this. Not everyone does. It's not a matter of being/feeling liberated. Some people just don't care for this sort of thing. It doesn't make them less liberated or even "more repressed" (yes, I am sure there are some who would imply differently.  )
Personally, I don't get it at all. The whole thing makes ZERO sense to me. But... that is MY boundary. I would not be ok with my girl friends doing this around me. I would not be ok doing it around them. I would not do it in a club. And I damn sure would get pissed off if I found out that some woman was doing/trying to do this to/with my husband. Again, this is our boundary. And the whole danicing thing has been in place since we got together: unless it is a wedding, and dancing with the bride/groom for a couple minutes, we dance only with each other (our kids are the exception to this).


----------



## norajane

Maricha75 said:


> I would not be ok with my girl friends doing this around me. I would not be ok doing it around them. I would not do it in a club.


My apologies, Maricha, but my mind went in this direction when I read what you wrote... 

I will not twerk,
no sir, no ma'am.
I will not twerk without my man!
I would not do it in a club,
I would not do it in a pub!
I could not do it in the dark,
I could not do it in the park!
I will not do it in the rain,
I will not do it with champagne!
I would not do it here or there.
I would not do it anywhere!
Not in a bar, nor in a car,
Not on a boat, nor with a goat!
I will not twerk!
No Sir! No Ma'am!
I will not twerk without my Man!

And my apologies to Dr. Seuss!


----------



## Maricha75

norajane said:


> My apologies, Maricha, but my mind went in this direction when I read what you wrote...
> 
> I will not twerk,
> no sir, no ma'am.
> I will not twerk without my man!
> I would not do it in a club,
> I would not do it in a pub!
> I could not do it in the dark,
> I could not do it in the park!
> I will not do it in the rain,
> I will not do it with champagne!
> I would not do it here or there.
> I would not do it anywhere!
> Not in a bar, nor in a car,
> Not on a boat, nor with a goat!
> I will not twerk!
> No Sir! No Ma'am!
> I will not twerk without my Man!
> 
> And my apologies to Dr. Seuss!


I think I'm a bit disturbed that you were able to put that to Dr. Seuss. 

The thing is... it's not just a matter of not doing it without my man... I have no desire to do it.... period. I just don't see the fascination with it.


----------



## Thepoet

Entropy3000 said:


> But what does age really have to do with this?
> 
> Do some of you all even get out? I think it matters more is one is married than how old they are.


I have to agree, age is largely irrelevant here. If you are single and 85 years old and want to twerk be my guest. If you are married 25 and twerking around a club and your partner is not there or has not approved it, NOT OK.

Sexually charged dancing in groups, clubbing, drinking. This is all part of the singles scene. When you get a partner, you show them respect, love, and obviously the only sexual attention you should be looking for is from them. So doing this type of dancing/drinking when they aren't around is gathering sexual attention that isn't the partners, why put yourself at risk like that?



FrenchFry said:


> But you can't see how it's liberating to know that you aren't dead in the grave yet? Especially women who get the message loud and clear that we've peaked in our early 20's, to know that being 40 doesn't mean being a spinster? Shoot, twerking encourages you to have a big, jiggly butt. Can't be more perfect to try @ 40+.


Great, now why can't they do this with their partner? Why does it have to be with strangers? To me that is problem, putting their *low physical self esteem in a high risk situation. It's disrespectful and potentially damaging to the partner.

*For clarification I put physical self esteem, because everyone as they begin to age realizes "I'm not as good looking as I used to be" etc etc. But this mind set puts them at greater risk when they DO receive sexual attention. All the more reason not to do this kind of garbage outside of a setting that involves your partner.


----------



## norajane

Maricha75 said:


> I think I'm a bit disturbed that you were able to put that to Dr. Seuss.


Lol. It just popped into my head.



> The thing is... it's not just a matter of not doing it without my man... I have no desire to do it.... period. I just don't see the fascination with it.


It's just like in that video that French Fry posted. 

What is this twerking thing I'm hearing about all of a sudden?
I looked up that Miley Cyrus thing, and it's a lot hip and butt action.
Yeah, I watched a Rihanna video, and it kinda goes like this...[insert live demo that isn't particularly coordinated]
Oh, I could never do that!
I bet I could! Let me try!
Ok, now I have to try it!

And they laugh and dance around and feel good. That's all it is. They'll probably forget about it soon enough just like they forgot about Tebowing.


----------



## Entropy3000

All, I wish you love. I wish you respect. I hope you feel liberated. But I hope this all happens with love and respect to your spouses.


----------



## Entropy3000

Twerk me baby.

MACKLEMORE & RYAN LEWIS - THRIFT SHOP FEAT. WANZ (OFFICIAL VIDEO) - YouTube

Blurred Lines ... Unrated is better.


----------



## Caribbean Man

ReformedHubby said:


> I didn't have all that much time today, still don't really. I am somewhat surprised after looking at all the replies. I don't understand why its such a big deal that many of us want our spouse to behave like a mature adult instead of a spring breaker. I don't want to twist what some people posted, but from my interpretation some of the posts read as though twerking is somehow liberating for an older woman. How exactly is this liberating?


It's liberating to them because it's daring and different.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Entropy3000 said:


> Twerk me baby.
> 
> MACKLEMORE & RYAN LEWIS - THRIFT SHOP FEAT. WANZ (OFFICIAL VIDEO) - YouTube


I work out to that song at the gym.:rofl:


----------



## TiggyBlue

FrenchFry said:


> For the record, while I may have mastered the twerk, I *very rarely* do it in public. Only at Walmart.


lol and you wondered why you get hit on grocery shopping


----------



## Caribbean Man

Thepoet said:


> I have to agree, age is largely irrelevant here. If you are single and 85 years old and want to twerk be my guest. If you are married 25 and twerking around a club and your partner is not there or has not approved it, NOT OK.
> 
> Sexually charged dancing in groups, clubbing, drinking. This is all part of the singles scene. When you get a partner, you show them respect, love, and obviously the only sexual attention you should be looking for is from them. So doing this type of dancing/drinking when they aren't around is gathering sexual attention that isn't the partners, why put yourself at risk like that?
> 
> 
> 
> Great, now why can't they do this with their partner? Why does it have to be with strangers? To me that is problem, putting their *low physical self esteem in a high risk situation. It's disrespectful and potentially damaging to the partner.
> 
> *For clarification I put physical self esteem, because everyone as they begin to age realizes "I'm not as good looking as I used to be" etc etc. But this mind set puts them at greater risk when they DO receive sexual attention. All the more reason not to do this kind of garbage outside of a setting that involves your partner.



Have you ever been to a " _clothing optional_ " beach resort / beach?

Would you say that it's disrespectful for a married couple to go to such a beach / resort and be naked in public with others who are naked?


----------



## Entropy3000

Caribbean Man said:


> I work out to that song at the gym.:rofl:


It's tight.


----------



## Entropy3000

Caribbean Man said:


> Have you ever been to a " _clothing optional_ " beach resort / beach?
> 
> Would you say that it's disrespectful for a married couple to go to such a beach / resort and be naked in public with others who are naked?


I know you addressed it to them but it would be if your spouse was not down with it.

If I was hotubbing with some women naked and my wife was not ok with it then that would be a problem.

If a wife was going to nude beaches and her hubby was not down with that I find that wrong as well.

It is about the couple.

Some women feel liberated going topless on a cruise ship. Ok cool. But if the hubby is not down with it I think that is not so good.


----------



## Entropy3000

TiggyBlue said:


> lol and you wondered why you get hit on grocery shopping


I refuse to do the grocery shopping. I keep hearing what goes down at starbucks and the grocery store for many people on here and I will stay in the safety of the marriage friendly bar scene. I am not ready for the wild sex stuff that goes down outside of the bar.


----------



## Maricha75

Caribbean Man said:


> Have you ever been to a " _clothing optional_ " beach resort / beach?
> 
> Would you say that it's disrespectful for a married couple to go to such a beach / resort and be naked in public with others who are naked?


As Entropy said, it depends on the couple. To me, because of my own boundaries, and because of my husband's boundaries, we would never go to one of those kinds of beaches.... because WE feel it disrespectful, for US.


----------



## TiggyBlue

Entropy3000 said:


> I refuse to do the grocery shopping. I keep hearing what goes down at starbucks and the grocery store for many people on here and I will stay in the safety of the marriage friendly bar scene. I am not ready for the wild sex stuff that goes down outside of the bar.


Aisle 4 is always the one avoid (seems to always need a clean up ).


----------



## Faithful Wife

Ok what I meant for myself when I said it feels liberating to do it....

I meant doing it for my husband. And I meant it feels sexually liberating because it is a primal move, like belly dancing (even more primal, though). 

I never meant it felt liberating to me to do it in public or that it felt liberating to have men watch me do this or to be so sexual in public or what have you.

What I really meant was the way your flesh can actually move like that causes a sexual liberation in me...it is a moment when something in my mind goes waaaaaaaay back to a primal motivation of shaking my flesh before my man to entice him. The feeling of letting your flesh move like that goes against what most of us females are used to...we usually don't want to be shaking like that because you have to have some fat to move like that, so if you do move like that, well, do the math (means you are fat). We women avoid doing things that prove we are fat. 

But in that moment when doing this move for my husband for the actual intention to entice him sexually, I can let go of worrying if my butt looks fat when I'm twerking. It *has* to have fat to be able to twerk. It is not just the hips, it is the flesh gyrating that makes the feeling I'm talking about...the liberating sexual feeling of wanting to shake your fat at your man with the unspoken message "get on me".

That's what I meant, and only that.

As for doing it in public being liberating...meh.


----------



## Entropy3000

TiggyBlue said:


> Aisle 4 is always the one avoid (seems to always need a clean up ).


:rofl:


----------



## Caribbean Man

Entropy3000 said:


> I know you addressed it to them but it would be if your spouse was not down with it.
> 
> If I was hotubbing with some women naked and my wife was not ok with it then that would be a problem.
> 
> If a wife was going to nude beaches and her hubby was not down with that I find that wrong as well.
> 
> It is about the couple.
> 
> Some women feel liberated going topless on a cruise ship. Ok cool. But if the hubby is not down with it I thing that is not so good.


And I agree fully.
That's why I referenced all my posts with boundaries, agreements and safety earlier.

See I could relate to this stuff because , as I said in my first post on this thread, this is normal in our culture. Nobody points a finger at women who attend Carnival parades and parties.
It's the norm, but I can understand that you guys have a different culture.

We have clothing optional beaches here where couples go nude or semi nude among other couples, so it's all context , time and place.

It's part our culture, no one really considers it " vulgar " except maybe the uber religious folks.

But I guess we both see this differently. In any event, I won't go into a hot tub with other women even if my wife said its ok or if she was there.
lol,
I kinda have a " germ phobia."


----------



## Entropy3000

Faithful Wife said:


> Ok what I meant for myself when I said it feels liberating to do it....
> 
> I meant doing it for my husband. And I meant it feels sexually liberating because it is a primal move, like belly dancing (even more primal, though).
> 
> I never meant it felt liberating to me to do it in public or that it felt liberating to have men watch me do this or to be so sexual in public or what have you.
> 
> What I really meant was the way your flesh can actually move like that causes a sexual liberation in me...it is a moment when something in my mind goes waaaaaaaay back to a primal motivation of shaking my flesh before my man to entice him. The feeling of letting your flesh move like that goes against what most of us females are used to...we usually don't want to be shaking like that because you have to have some fat to move like that, so if you do move like that, well, do the math (means you are fat). We women avoid doing things that prove we are fat.
> 
> But in that moment when doing this move for my husband for the actual intention to entice him sexually, I can let go of worrying if my butt looks fat when I'm twerking. It *has* to have fat to be able to twerk. It is not just the hips, it is the flesh gyrating that makes the feeling I'm talking about...the liberating sexual feeling of wanting to shake your fat at your man with the unspoken message "get on me".
> 
> That's what I meant, and only that.
> 
> As for doing it in public being liberating...meh.


FW, These are nice sentiments darlin ( Texas term of endearment ).


----------



## Thepoet

Caribbean Man said:


> Have you ever been to a " _clothing optional_ " beach resort / beach?
> 
> Would you say that it's disrespectful for a married couple to go to such a beach / resort and be naked in public with others who are naked?


This is why I have this part in my post

"and your partner is not there or has not approved it, NOT OK."

ANY situation can be ok if your partner is ok with it. But I think a lot of situations people don't think about would make their partner very uncomfortable. Communication and setting agreed upon boundaries is key.


----------



## Entropy3000

Caribbean Man said:


> And I agree fully.
> That's why I referenced all my posts with boundaries, agreements and safety earlier.
> 
> See I could relate to this stuff because , as I said in my first post on this thread, this is normal in our culture. Nobody points a finger at women who attend Carnival parades and parties.
> It's the norm, but I can understand that you guys have a different culture.
> 
> We have clothing optional beaches here where couples go nude or semi nude among other couples, so it's all context , time and place.
> 
> It's part our culture, no one really considers it " vulgar " except maybe the uber religious folks.
> 
> But I guess we both see this differently. In any event, I won't go into a hot tub with other women even if my wife said its ok or if she was there.
> lol,
> I kinda have a " germ phobia."


I was in the Navy. I have had shots for almost everything. Almost.


----------



## I Notice The Details

13 pages on female twerking....Wow!

I love my wife's curves too! She is currently watching the Hallmark channel right now. I think I will ask her during a TV commercial...if she has any plans to twerk for me or with her girlfriends in the near future. 

I can't wait to see the look on her face. She will probably ask me if I have been drinking....:rofl:


----------



## Faithful Wife

Maybe she'll say "you first"....and then what?

I'd love my hubby to twerk it for me but alas....he is rock solid muscle back there. No twerkability.


----------



## I Notice The Details

Faithful Wife said:


> Maybe she'll say "you first"....and then what?
> 
> I'd love my hubby to twerk it for me but alas....he is rock solid muscle back there. No twerkability.


Well, I just asked her during the commercial and she gave me the WTF look...and then the deer in the headlights look. 

Here are the expressions that I just got: and then 

The twerkability chances in my house right now are probably less than zero. :rofl: It is all Faithful Wife's fault.


----------



## committed4ever

I too sleepy to tell if y'all are serious. But just in case you are here a news flash. You DO NOT have to be fat to twerking. I was only fat for a little over one year of my life (before pregnant) and I can twerking with the best of them. And my H who just have a cute little butt ain't bad either. But it is something I would say DO try it at home. And ONLY at home. LOL


----------



## Forever Grateful

I'm not much of a dancer but I'll do it at home for my husband, no where near brave enough to do it in public. And honestly he's better at it than I am! Lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Faithful Wife

committed...But you DO have to have SOME fat on your ass to twerk. You can't do it if you just have muscle (unless somehow they are very big and heavy). It is the weight of the flesh sliding around on you that does the twerky part...and by flesh I mean "fat". 

Most gals have some fat on their ass, but not all do. I've seen some truly too skinny no ass girls try to twerk. There is no movement of the flesh when this happens, just a waist and hip movement. Not the same.


----------



## committed4ever

Faithful Wife said:


> committed...But you DO have to have SOME fat on your ass to twerk. You can't do it if you just have muscle (unless somehow they are very big and heavy). It is the weight of the flesh sliding around on you that does the twerky part...and by flesh I mean "fat".
> 
> Most gals have some fat on their ass, but not all do. I've seen some truly too skinny no ass girls try to twerk. There is no movement of the flesh when this happens, just a waist and hip movement. Not the same.


Yeah I have a big butt it's not jiggly butt and my H have no fat on his cute butt. Seriously you have to know how to move it right. I have seen little kid twerking that barely even have a butt.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Entropy3000 said:


> Great to know. I have never even when single had to pursue women in this way.
> 
> Good to know you get shot down.


Did I p*ss in your Wheaties or something?

You've never had to pursue women in this way? Is that supposed to be an insult? Going and talking to groups of women on a night out is bad? lol I don't have to pursue women this way, I enjoy it.

Everyone gets shot down, I'm no exception. I find it pretty entertaining usually. You take everything way too seriously. Its all just good and fun.

And my view isn't such because I'm single. I was married. I wish she would have gone out... I might not have mistaken her for a robot. I'm dating a girl now. She goes out with her girlfriends every now and then just like I go out with my boys every now and then. The other half of the time, we join group outings together.

Women going to the club and letting their hair down doesn't make them skanky hoes throwing away all responsibility and looking for a D to hop on.

They're grown women capable of handling themselves. They're not children.


----------



## Lon

I started reading this thread but it got old for me by page 2. All I know is, that when I see a woman twerking, it means (to me) that she is "DTF" and then I imagine what it is like to be doing the F'ing (sorry if that is crude, just being honest here). If she is grinding on someone, then whomever she is making eye contact with while doing so is the one she is DTF with, if shes looking at no one then she is either drunk/stoned and/or DTF with almost anyone. That is why Hanna Montana is being criticized, because she is not only announcing her sexual desire, but she is promoting promiscuity by eye-f'ing everyone on stage with her as well as the entire live and tv audience. She is openly announcing that she is a slvt.

If a woman is not DTF she won't be twerking.

or perhaps my interpretation is wrong, but that's how I see it (look up DTF on urban dictionary if you don't know what it means)


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

I just feel like this thread is so overblown. Its just a recent "flavor of the moment" dance... riskier than most, but here today and gone tomorrow. Most of the women doing them do so just for the rush of having gotten out there and done it.

They're just goofing around with the latest thing and laughing. Yesterday it was the wobble or gangnam style.

It makes me wonder if some folks are basing their opinion on actually seeing these groups of women in the club or if they're just imagining what its like. These are usually laughing silly affairs where the women are just trying to see if they can pull it off.

note - they usually can't (well, at least). But its all good fun.


----------



## Faithful Wife

OK committed....I'll take your word for it.

But I like my fat butt to do most of the work when twerking it for my H. All I have to do is begin the motion with my hips and my fat butt does the rest. It is the flesh moving around on me that feels liberating.

Sometimes my H grabs the flesh and shakes it around himself, and twerking feels similar.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Lon said:


> All I know is, that when I see a woman twerking, it means (to me) that she is "DTF" and then I imagine what it is like to be doing the F'ing (sorry if that is crude, just being honest here). If she is grinding on someone, then whomever she is making eye contact with while doing so is the one she is DTF with, if shes looking at no one then she is either drunk/stoned and/or DTF with almost anyone. That is why Hanna Montana is being criticized, because she is not only announcing her sexual desire, but she is promoting promiscuity by eye-f'ing everyone on stage with her as well as the entire live and tv audience. She is openly announcing that she is a slvt.
> 
> If a woman is not DTF she won't be twerking.
> 
> or perhaps my interpretation is wrong, but that's how I see it (look up DTF on urban dictionary if you don't know what it means)


Have you actually seen middle aged married women do this in real life?

Trust me, the last thing you think is that they're DTF. Its more funny than sexy... and they usually can only keep from busting out laughing for a short time.


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Nig*



DvlsAdvc8 said:


> It makes me wonder if some folks are basing their opinion on actually seeing these groups of women in the club or if they're just imagining what its like. These are usually laughing silly affairs where the women are just trying to see if they can pull it off.
> 
> note - they usually can't (well, at least). But its all good fun.


I don't club much, but my ex did, and she loved to twerk it when I wasnt around (so I don't know if she was actually good at it or not).

But I bet women are much better at it during the ovulation part of their cycle?


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

*Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Nig*



Lon said:


> I don't club much, but my ex did, and she loved to twerk it when I wasnt around (so I don't know if she was actually good at it or not).
> 
> But I bet women are much better at it during the ovulation part of their cycle?


I go out fairly often and I really really wish I had some video to share. The 35+ yo moms who come out for their bi-annual "holy sh*t I got away from the hubby and kids for some ME time!" events AREN'T good at it.

They're not doing it to show out and get male attention. They're doing it to see if they can and for the laughs. A moment to feel what they felt in the good ol' days before they had 50 billion responsibilities. If you watch, you'll notice they pretty much run through making attempts at all the recent dance crazes to the cheers and laughs of their girlfriends.

There's nothing to worry about when your wife goes out occasionally with her married friends and doesn't stay out too late - even if she's twerking. Worry about the wife that goes out regularly with her single friends and stays out late - even if she's not twerking.


----------



## Entropy3000

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Did I p*ss in your Wheaties or something?
> 
> You've never had to pursue women in this way? Is that supposed to be an insult? Going and talking to groups of women on a night out is bad? lol I don't have to pursue women this way, I enjoy it.
> 
> Everyone gets shot down, I'm no exception. I find it pretty entertaining usually. You take everything way too seriously. Its all just good and fun.
> 
> And my view isn't such because I'm single. I was married. I wish she would have gone out... I might not have mistaken her for a robot. I'm dating a girl now. She goes out with her girlfriends every now and then just like I go out with my boys every now and then. The other half of the time, we join group outings together.
> 
> Women going to the club and letting their hair down doesn't make them skanky hoes throwing away all responsibility and looking for a D to hop on.
> 
> They're grown women capable of handling themselves. They're not children.


I am telling you my experience. You have your way and I have mine. I would not have to try and break up a female twerkfest. Some guys can pull this off no doubt.

So you and I disagree. What a surprise. BUT whether you were married or not you are single now. You have written post after post on PUA techniques. So the phase of your life you are in now is one of this scene and yopu are very pro this life style. Enjoy. I understadn at least you have not always been single. 

But I am amazed how people keep missing the point. I just think they do not want to deal with it. The point is that there are wives and husbands that are not ok with this stuff. There is NOTHING wrong with them. Just s there are people who are ok with it. There is NOTHING wrong with them. 

So please do be ok with your future SO going out and letting her hair down. Like I said, I only care about the woman who is married to me. Also realize I have plenty of experience. I am not just some guy imagining what happens on aisle 4. 

Is this clear now?


----------



## committed4ever

Faithful Wife said:


> OK committed....I'll take your word for it.
> 
> But I like my fat butt to do most of the work when twerking it for my H. All I have to do is begin the motion with my hips and my fat butt does the rest. It is the flesh moving around on me that feels liberating.
> 
> Sometimes my H grabs the flesh and shakes it around himself, and twerking feels similar.


FW I bet your butt not even fat with all that (cough cough) "gym" work you do.


----------



## committed4ever

Lon said:


> I started reading this thread but it got old for me by page 2. All I know is, that when I see a woman twerking, it means (to me) that she is "DTF" and then I imagine what it is like to be doing the F'ing (sorry if that is crude, just being honest here). If she is grinding on someone, then whomever she is making eye contact with while doing so is the one she is DTF with, if shes looking at no one then she is either drunk/stoned and/or DTF with almost anyone. That is why Hanna Montana is being criticized, because she is not only announcing her sexual desire, but she is promoting promiscuity by eye-f'ing everyone on stage with her as well as the entire live and tv audience. She is openly announcing that she is a slvt.
> 
> If a woman is not DTF she won't be twerking.
> 
> or perhaps my interpretation is wrong, but that's how I see it (look up DTF on urban dictionary if you don't know what it means)


Dayum. Glad I only did it with my H.


----------



## Entropy3000

Lon said:


> I started reading this thread but it got old for me by page 2. All I know is, that when I see a woman twerking, it means (to me) that she is "DTF" and then I imagine what it is like to be doing the F'ing (sorry if that is crude, just being honest here). If she is grinding on someone, then whomever she is making eye contact with while doing so is the one she is DTF with, if shes looking at no one then she is either drunk/stoned and/or DTF with almost anyone. That is why Hanna Montana is being criticized, because she is not only announcing her sexual desire, but she is promoting promiscuity by eye-f'ing everyone on stage with her as well as the entire live and tv audience. She is openly announcing that she is a slvt.
> 
> If a woman is not DTF she won't be twerking.
> 
> or perhaps my interpretation is wrong, but that's how I see it (look up DTF on urban dictionary if you don't know what it means)


This IS a F'ing motion. It is sexual. Adsurd to say it is not. Get real. And then there is the tongue thing that we all saw. We know what that means.

It does send the DTF signal. I do not see this as letting down ones hair. It is particular obvious when the clothes allow for more skin to show. And yes, some ladies not only go clubbing in thongs but some goes sans anything. 

I am not saying Jenny from suburbia does this. It is trendy now. Naughty even. Tee Hee. Big joke. Trust me the best way to attack boundaries is as a joke. It is a type of Kino. Devils knows what I mean.


----------



## Entropy3000

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I just feel like this thread is so overblown. Its just a recent "flavor of the moment" dance... riskier than most, but here today and gone tomorrow. Most of the women doing them do so just for the rush of having gotten out there and done it.
> 
> They're just goofing around with the latest thing and laughing. Yesterday it was the wobble or gangnam style.
> 
> It makes me wonder if some folks are basing their opinion on actually seeing these groups of women in the club or if they're just imagining what its like. These are usually laughing silly affairs where the women are just trying to see if they can pull it off.
> 
> note - they usually can't (well, at least). But its all good fun.


I do not have to imagine this. Maybe others do. 

This thread is about a trendy thing. But this IS talk about marriage and it brings up some significant points. Becuase it is trendy many couples will be dealing with this. It brings up boundaries again. So reviewing bounaries is a good thing. It is part of adapting. Couples have not yet adatped to FB for example. This is just another one. How does one adapt to a spouse going on trips and clubbing. Male and female. So I think in this context this is not overblown. If we can chat about PUA form a gazillion pages I think we can chat about things like this that are closer to home.


----------



## Entropy3000

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Have you actually seen middle aged married women do this in real life?
> 
> Trust me, the last thing you think is that they're DTF. Its more funny than sexy... and they usually can only keep from busting out laughing for a short time.


At my age it means DTF. I am much older. So I see middle aged woman as pretty hot. You are veiwing it with a younger view which is fine.


----------



## AnnieAsh

When I was growing up, we all danced like that. I don't think I was DTF at 12. Twerkin, bouncing, the butterfly...it was like the two step is to white people.


----------



## TiggyBlue

AnnieAsh said:


> When I was growing up, we all danced like that. I don't think I was DTF at 12. Twerkin, bouncing, the butterfly...it was like the two step is to white people.


My 5 yr old cousins can twerk, seriously not that uncommon or risque .


----------



## Entropy3000

AnnieAsh said:


> When I was growing up, we all danced like that. I don't think I was DTF at 12. Twerkin, bouncing, the butterfly...it was like the two step is to white people.


You were just mimicking others. You were doing the adolescent thing. But you were 12. Not 35 and married. Sometimes what we do at 12 is cute and but when we do the same thing later on ... not so much. Again if a couple is down with this then all power to them.

Also as has been pointed out there is a cultural influence here. And regional there are regional issues as it relates to how scholls handle this during sporting events for example.


----------



## TiggyBlue

Entropy3000 said:


> Also as has been pointed out there is a cultural influence here. And regional.


True, where I grew up there is has a massive Caribbean influence.


----------



## Entropy3000

*Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Nig*



DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I go out fairly often and I really really wish I had some video to share. The 35+ yo moms who come out for their bi-annual "holy sh*t I got away from the hubby and kids for some ME time!" events AREN'T good at it.
> 
> They're not doing it to show out and get male attention. They're doing it to see if they can and for the laughs. A moment to feel what they felt in the good ol' days before they had 50 billion responsibilities. If you watch, you'll notice they pretty much run through making attempts at all the recent dance crazes to the cheers and laughs of their girlfriends.
> 
> There's nothing to worry about when your wife goes out occasionally with her married friends and doesn't stay out too late - even if she's twerking. Worry about the wife that goes out regularly with her single friends and stays out late - even if she's not twerking.


You should open an escort service for middle aged women and help them blow off steam.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Entropy3000 said:


> I am telling you my experience. You have your way and I have mine. I would not have to try and break up a female twerkfest. Some guys can pull this off no doubt.


Who said anything about breaking it up? Its about getting involved. If the girl I'm interested in is in that group, I'm inclined to go after her and figure out a way to start a playful conversation. I don't "have to" do this... as if I'm resorting to something. These groups of women are fun. My whole point was relating that its easy to distinguish the ones that are interested in men getting involved and the ones that absolutely don't want any men involved. I don't bother with the latter.



Entropy3000 said:


> The point is that there are wives and husbands that are not ok with this stuff. There is NOTHING wrong with them. Just s there are people who are ok with it. There is NOTHING wrong with them.


We were clear on that to begin with. I even wrote that we agreed that both need to be on the same page with it.


----------



## Moulin

If I were out on a GNO and posted a pic like that, it wouldn't be long before my H showed up to corral the party. 

It's disrespectful to our marriage, to him and to myself to put myself out there like that. 

FWIW - I'm a 40 year old woman with three children.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

*Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Nig*



Entropy3000 said:


> You should open an escort service for middle aged women and help them blow off steam.


What is with all the snide comments?

What do you not get about my saying that most of these women DONT WANT MEN INVOLVED AT ALL?


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Entropy3000 said:


> At my age it means DTF. I am much older. So I see middle aged woman as pretty hot. You are veiwing it with a younger view which is fine.


Okay... I'll take your word for it. I don't know if it matters, but what I'm relating isn't about their bodies. Plenty of middle aged women are attractive to me.

What I'm talking about is that its clearly goofing and being silly. They keep a straight face for all of 30 seconds. That's what I mean by not being hot. Sometimes its downright awkward looking. Usually you have one that is better or more knowledgeable who's trying to teach the dance to the others and then hilarity ensues.

Its no where near the sexually charged situation I think people are imagining.

Maybe its just me. All I see are in these cases are women being silly and having fun with their friends. You can throw a random woman on a stripper pole but that doesn't mean its gonna be sexy. Its probably going to be pretty funny.


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Nig*



DvlsAdvc8 said:


> ... most of these women DONT WANT MEN INVOLVED AT ALL?


I'm wondering if that kind of statement needs to go up on the "game your man" thread. Women that say they don't want men involved at all may be true in most cases, but not at the bar or club. They just might not want any particular one, atleast not at the very moment.


----------



## AnnieAsh

TiggyBlue said:


> My 5 yr old cousins can twerk, seriously not that uncommon or risque .


Yeah I'm not understanding this furor. This is old hat to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

TiggyBlue said:


> True, where I grew up there is has a massive Caribbean influence.


This makes a difference. IMO. 

When a High School Florida Football team comes to Texas and they do this at haltime, it gets a lot of amazed looks. Bible belt aside. I am not from the bible belt. I love to dance. 

They say you should not have sex standing up in the bible belt. Because someone may think you are dancing.

It is like a lot of things. The change in behavior matters. A lot is going on with folks in their middle ages. This impacts marriages good and bad. It is about dealing with things in the proper way. Understanding what is going on is important. Just being ok with things rarely works. It takes communication and agreement on boundaries. We should not be driven by trendy things so much.

Just saying these middleaged groups on trips are ALL blowing off steam and do not get into trouble is disengenuous. These folks are as vulnerable and arguably more so than their younger counter parts. So yeah we get the Golden Girls or whatever as funny. But they are not middle age. I am not just talking about women. men get into plenty of trouble on trips that involve bars and clubs.

I get that I am ... an old guy ... who looks 40 maybe. Hotness to me is not defined in the 18 to 30 range. That may be the view of some yonger folks. They actually look like children to me often. Women 30+ are plenty hot as far as I am concerened and I do not laugh them off. We get what has been said about women joking around. I am not talking about those. But lets not characterize women over 35 as not being sexual. They are not in their 80s. I suggest that women are more interesting at that age anyway.


----------



## Entropy3000

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Who said anything about breaking it up? Its about getting involved. If the girl I'm interested in is in that group, I'm inclined to go after her and figure out a way to start a playful conversation. I don't "have to" do this... as if I'm resorting to something. These groups of women are fun. My whole point was relating that its easy to distinguish the ones that are interested in men getting involved and the ones that absolutely don't want any men involved. I don't bother with the latter.
> 
> 
> 
> We were clear on that to begin with. I even wrote that we agreed that both need to be on the same page with it.


Devils, fine dude. But again your persepctive is on the hunt. You are now the fox looking for hens. Good hunting. Great singles banter. Perhaps some here need your guidance. I am plenty clear on this stuff. So continue on.


----------



## Entropy3000

*Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Nig*



Lon said:


> I'm wondering if that kind of statement needs to go up on the "game your man" thread. Women that say they don't want men involved at all may be true in most cases, but not at the bar or club. They just might not want any particular one, atleast not at the very moment.


They may not intend to hookup but they went to a club where the men are. Attention is important. We know this. --check.

If us married guys go to this kind of club on a fun trip it raises concerns. But somehow it is ok for married women. How archaic is that?


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Nig*



AnnieAsh said:


> Yeah I'm not understanding this furor. This is old hat to me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Maybe it is because the media has censored up pretty much every healthy sexual expression and sexed up that which need not be sexual in it's place. But I find that women squatting, gyrating their hips back and forth is completely and utterly sexual. It arouses me, particularly when well done, on women of all ages shapes and sizes, but feels awkward and inappropriate for children to do. Sorry for being a dirty man, but because I am, and it gives me and men like me lustful thoughts is why in mainstream american culture twerking is controversial. Do it in the caribbean all you want but here the consequences are that men will pursue you for sex when you do it, and knowing now what it means when you do it you are creating the situation to happen, it is not innocent.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

*Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Nig*



Lon said:


> I'm wondering if that kind of statement needs to go up on the "game your man" thread. Women that say they don't want men involved at all may be true in most cases, but not at the bar or club. They just might not want any particular one, atleast not at the very moment.


Not true, and I'm being totally serious. A lot of women out with groups of other women at the club are NOT there for the men (less so bars... unless there is good patio seating, live music or a dance floor haha).

Its not a matter of "wait till they're drunk", or "the right guy" or anything.

They really are there to be with their girls, dance and laugh. Compliments and comments from guys are ego boosting, but approaches are put down pretty quickly. I don't have an agenda here, I usually go after girls in their 20s. I'm just telling you what I see when I go out.

There is just no way I can characterize it as being DTF. I can't. I just can't see it.


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Nig*



DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Its not a matter of "wait till they're drunk", or "the right guy" or anything.


Ok maybe not dtf, but definitely on a sexual spectrum. Problem is most won't readily admit that they are there for the sexual charge, the ego boost and the subliminal opposite sex attention. They believe the good feelings from dancing with their girls are purely innocent, but even in the best examples it can only start that way.

Many women, as demonstrated by the likes of many TAM ladies have come to be good at putting up boundaries, but I don't think any of them deny it's sexual, even if they are not good at it or just following the trend, all that varies is acceptable and tolerable and or unhealthy this kind of sexual expression on the dance floor is.

As a pickup artist you know which of the middle aged groups of women you will avoid, but that doesn't mean that those middle aged married women aren't doing it for sexual reasons. (and none of then will ever admit it is inappropriate or else why would they knowingly do it?)


----------



## Entropy3000

TiggyBlue said:


> My 5 yr old cousins can twerk, seriously not that uncommon or risque .


It is more seductive with a grown woman that has reached maturity. Go figure.

I did things at five I should not do as a grown man. Think whipping it out and peeing in public.

I have friends who are trying to get their 5 year old daughter to not go outside bare @$$. If you have that problem at 35 you are in for trouble.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

Entropy3000 said:


> It is more seductive with a grown woman that has reached maturity. Go figure.
> 
> I did things at five I should not do as a grown man. Think whipping it out and peeing in public.
> 
> *I have friends who are trying to get their 5 year old daughter to not go outside bare @$$. If you have that problem at 35 you are in for trouble.[*/QUOTE]
> 
> How about going out bare a$$ as a guy AND twerking to the song "swing low...sweet chariot"


----------



## Created2Write

Twerking is _definitely_ not my thing. No offense to anyone who does it and enjoys but...ew. 

The key, imo, is what each person would consider disrespectful. A woman may enjoy twerking with her girlfriends, and may think it's harmless...but would she want her husband doing it? Or, even not actual twerking itself...would she want her husband _that close_ to another woman's body? Especially one of the most sexual parts of her body? Would she be comfortable if he were? If the answer to that question is yes, then, as long as her husband shares her opinions, there really isn't an issue. What other people perceive the dance to mean is moot; even if other guys think the woman is sending out signals, if she isn't, their advances will fail. So harm, no foul. 

However, I question the likelihood of a woman truly being okay with her husband being pressed up against another woman in that way. And, in a marriage, the choices me make _do_ impact our spouse, however much we try and maintain independence. Sorry. You're married. There is no such thing as your choices only impacting you anymore. If the husband/SO is okay with it, then by all means. But I would strongly question any man who actually _wanted_ his wife to be close to a man in that way.


----------



## Anon Pink

*Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Nig*



DvlsAdvc8 said:


> They really are there to be with their girls, dance and laugh. Compliments and comments from guys are ego boosting, but approaches are put down pretty quickly. I don't have an agenda here, I usually go after girls in their 20s. I'm just telling you what I see when I go out.
> 
> There is just no way I can characterize it as being DTF. I can't. I just can't see it.


:iagree:
This is spot on in 99% of married women on the occasional GNO or weekend.

I'm beginning to think this is one of those cases where men see interest, but actually none exists. Men think they see interest or interest returned much more frequently than reality dictates. Studies on human sexual behavior back this up time and again. The evolutionary link theorized is that men had to develop a certain blindness to reality in order to take the risk. Perhaps from hunting dangerous animals, perhaps from the need to secure a willing woman. But the fact remains, men see interest where none exists.

So you guys thinking a middle aged married woman at a club dancing with friends means she's open to suggestion. :rofl:

I've repeated this in every thread Ive come across about "the dangers of GNO or weekends" and that is that we are NOT out for validation from men. We are NOT out to push the envelope and we certainly are NOT out to score some strange (hell we can get that done in aisle 4!) Having a man compliment or strike up a conversation is a nice surprise, but NOT the goal.

We are out to be silly, to laugh and to bond with our women friends. We let our hair down and do silly things, like twerking. Because we sure as hell don't want our kids to know stuff we don't!

I had to look up DTF... I think it's yet another example of men seeing interest where none exists.

Once again, a woman can be sexual and can embrace her sexuality with out wanting a ONS or affair. You see interest where none exists.


----------



## committed4ever

Or maybe more like this: 

Woman twerks at club or bar
Man sees woman twerk
Man gets arouse
Man approach woman for sex
Woman eventually give man sex
Man thinks all women who twerk jn club are looking for sex

Too simplistic?


----------



## Lon

I'd like to believe you, I do believe that you are being honest. However I have only ever, ever, heard from women that they are just there to dance and have fun doing female bonding, yet time and again I have seen men swoop in and succeed. So while I would never accuse you of lying, the fact is that some women do,and over time I have become surprised at the prevalence, and it always correlates to overt sexual behaviors. So I respectfully disagree with you on this Anon!


----------



## Cosmos

I had to look up the meaning of this word, but now have to admit that 'twerking' is pretty common in my family... I don't actually do it, but do know that when my sisters get together for their frequent 'girls' nights in,' after dinner they all twerk together. They're all in their 60s and 70s, and it's my guess that they'll still be 'twerking girls' when they're in their 90s!


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Nig*



committed4ever said:


> Or maybe more like this:
> 
> Woman twerks at club or bar
> Man sees woman twerk
> Man gets arouse
> Man approach woman for sex
> Woman eventually give man sex
> Man thinks all women who twerk jn club are looking for sex
> 
> Too simplistic?


more like:

woman twerks at bar
All men gawk
Some men approach
Women obviously like attention
Man thinks reason women twerk is to show off hiney and get approached.
Men and women get horny
Various elevated responses ensue


----------



## AnnieAsh

My mom still gets down on a regular basis. If you ask her what he exercise regimen is she says 2 days a week at the gym, walking 6 days a week and shakin her booty daily! 

Men can sexualize a woman breast feeding. It's just another way to shame women for what they do and blame them for men getting aroused. Oh well. Same ol same ol.

We all just have to live our lives and try to have fun. If men want to sexualize me, that ain't none of my concern.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Some women are truly innocent, like Anon and norajane.

Some women are truly out there being skanky.

If it isn't your own wife, who cares either way?


----------



## Lon

You are likening breastfeeding to twerking?

That is like likening an elementary school play to a strip club.


----------



## TiggyBlue

Created2Write said:


> However, I question the likelihood of a woman truly being okay with her husband being pressed up against another woman in that way. And, in a marriage, the choices me make _do_ impact our spouse, however much we try and maintain independence. Sorry. You're married. There is no such thing as your choices only impacting you anymore. If the husband/SO is okay with it, then by all means. But I would strongly question any man who actually _wanted_ his wife to be close to a man in that way.


Twerking's not grinding.


----------



## AnnieAsh

Lon said:


> You are likening breastfeeding to twerking?
> 
> That is like likening an elementary school play to a strip club.


They both get the same reaction from me although one is definitely more fun and burns more calories than the other! 

The point is I can BREATHE and get ogled. I can't let it stop me from doing what I enjoy.


----------



## Created2Write

TiggyBlue said:


> Twerkings not grinding.


Maybe the videos I watched were done wrong...but it sure looked like twerking was about getting their body as close to the guy as possible. Or, at the very least, drawing as much attention to their "bootey" as possible.


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Nig*



TiggyBlue said:


> Twerkings not grinding.


Correct, its sticking your ass out and bouncing it up and down in a manner that mimics woman on top intercourse, either squatting or straight legged. I'd post a video from youtube but most are rated 18plus and I don't think it would be appropriate for this forum.


----------



## TiggyBlue

Created2Write said:


> Maybe the videos I watched were done wrong...but it sure looked like twerking was about getting their body as close to the guy as possible.


Nah it's pretty much shaking your booty, can be done near other's.


----------



## AnnieAsh

I didn't realize it was that serious. I've learned something new today! Maybe it has to do with where you are raised and your culture. *shrug*


----------



## southern wife

I'm twerking at my desk!


----------



## Created2Write

Like I added to my post, at the very least, it's drawing as much attention to the @ss as possible. Which, to me, doesn't seem like the most respectful thing for a married woman to do. If a husband is fine with his wife being looked at in that way, knowing she's intentionally doing something very sexual in nature(even if her intent isn't to get sexual attention), then fine. Again, I question a husband who has no issues with it, personally. 

And, for those trying to imply that a man's arousal isn't their responsibility...I beg to differ. It's one thing if a woman goes out in a flattering outfit, and guys check them out. It's an entirely different thing if you intentionally draw attention to you're butt area by making incredibly sexual movements. Like Lon said, it looks like the movements a woman makes on top of a man during intercourse. The two examples couldn't be more opposite.


----------



## TiggyBlue

*Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Nig*



Lon said:


> Correct, its sticking your ass out and bouncing it up and down in a manner that mimics woman on top intercourse, either squatting or straight legged. I'd post a video from youtube but most are rated 18plus and I don't think it would be appropriate for this forum.


Is it the woman doing it in walmart?
If it is a swear that's FrenchFry


----------



## Cosmos

*Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Nig*



Lon said:


> Correct, its sticking your ass out and bouncing it up and down in a manner that mimics woman on top intercourse, either squatting or straight legged. I'd post a video from youtube but most are rated 18plus and I don't think it would be appropriate for this forum.


Ahhh... then my sisters aren't twerkers after all


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Nig*



AnnieAsh said:


> I didn't realize it was that serious. I've learned something new today! Maybe it has to do with where you are raised and your culture. *shrug*


Coming from a white middle class background with mennonite roots I will admit I'm coming from a different place than you Annie. All I know is that this type of movement came from African culture and has been popularized in hiphop since I was in high school, and from my point of view its primary purpose in my world was to sell music videos. If I had a daughter I wouldn't want her putting the goods on display in such a prominent and public manner.

Though I do find it somewhat bizarre that such a thing as a simple (though not necessarily easy) body movement can have such a strong reaction.


----------



## doubletrouble

I thought the whole twerking thing included the Miley C thing that she did with the foam finger. THAT was over the top. Crotch grabbing is also really, folks, unnecessary. I think it was Michael Jackson I first saw doing that. 

And Frank Zappa thought it was something overboard to say "fvck" on stage. Sheesh. 

Oho, one more thing... Miley's dad's reaction. Um, sorry, if that were my daughter I'd be giving her a very stern talking to. Which shoulda happened when she was about 12.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

southern wife said:


> I'm twerking at my desk!


Me too!! :smthumbup:


----------



## committed4ever

doubletrouble said:


> I thought the whole twerking thing included the Miley C thing that she did with the foam finger. THAT was over the top. Crotch grabbing is also really, folks, unnecessary. I think it was Michael Jackson I first saw doing that.
> 
> And Frank Zappa thought it was something overboard to say "fvck" on stage. Sheesh.
> 
> Oho, one more thing... Miley's dad's reaction. Um, sorry, if that were my daughter I'd be giving her a very stern talking to. Which shoulda happened when she was about 12.


Plus Miley really was awful at it which added to the ridiculous factor


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

I'd just like to say I don't think that a woman showing off her sexuality and men watching means a woman is any more likely to cheat or engage those men. I think some women enjoy being sexual beings and the occasional outrageousness; being fabulous as my gay friends call it. Guys are always watching and always interested. If a woman's ability to attract male attention alone is the issue I'm inclined to think its more a problem of male insecurity than female misbehavior.

Insecurity or not, its a real thing for the guy and if he has a problem with her clubbing behavior they need to come to terms and get on the same page.


----------



## Caribbean Man

I must say this thread is really interesting to me.

I am reading these responses and thinking wow!
If some of you guys were to visit my country , especially during our Carnival season, maybe you might have a cardiac episode?

This type of dance is normal in our country!
And class , or race or religion doesn't have one thing to do with it.

Here's a vid of a cross section of people that " play mas" or dance , gyrate and " twerk" themselves in a public street party that runs for 48 hours during Carnival.

Trinidad & Tobago Carnival 2013 , Savage Tuesday.

Something to note.

1] These people " playing mas " are upper class and middle class people. 

2] The average cost of " playing mas " with a band , which includes costume, DJ and music ,security ,free premium drinks , free food , free condoms, free medical attention, free toilet facilities is around US $ 2000.00

3]A lot of Hollywood celebrities male & female, billionaires and rich Americans actually come here every single year to " play mas" where they gyrate , dance , and yes " twerk."

Billionaire , Richard Branson.
Gerard Butler.
Queen Latifah
Jay-Z and beyonce.
Gabrielle Union.
Mya
Tyson Beckford.
Malic Yoba.
Will Smith
And the list goes on and on.

The link below lists just a few who have been here.
Celebrity Carnival - Trinidad Carnival Diary

lol,I can post quite a few pics of them either in ' playing mas " in Carnival bands or " twerking ."

Here's a music vid by Jay - Z , filmed in our country during our Carnival quite a few years ago . And yes, there's lots of
" twerking" in that vid, lol ,and that's even before Miley Cyrus started attending grade school.

Jay - Z- Big pimpin'.

And that our actual , live carnival footage, not paid dancers.

I'm just fascinated that it's causing such a furore ,
But I guess it's just a difference of culture.


----------



## committed4ever

Actually I also have to admit to being a bit puzzle by the responses. I mean I have only twerk toward my H before we were married and it was in response to him one upping me on the dance floor but just twerking with my teenage girl friends and cousin was done all the time. You want to see some serious twerking go to a Black Family reunion or backyard bbq. It was all in dancing fun. But some of the 20's cousin would do it too. It was almost like a dance contest. 

I'm done with that out in public too old but if some older people at our reunions and BBQ did it, it was still in the context of who can out twerk who while us young uns laugh at them.


----------



## Lon

CM why do you think Carnival is such a big draw from around the world? One big sexually charged, let-loose party full of scantily clad decorated women shaking their assets. You often tout it on here as if people don't know, but all boys with a tv already know exactly what carnival is from around the time puberty starts.


----------



## Caribbean Man

committed4ever said:


> Actually I also have to admit to being a bit puzzle by the responses. I mean I have only twerk toward my H before we were married and it was in response to him one upping me on the dance floor but just twerking with my teenage girl friends and cousin was done all the time. You want to see some serious twerking go to a Black Family reunion or backyard bbq. It was all in dancing fun. But some of the 20's cousin would do it too. It was almost like a dance contest.
> 
> I'm done with that out in public too old but if some older people at our reunions and BBQ did it, it was still in the context of who can out twerk who while us young uns laugh at them.


Yes.

That's what I mean.
Even at house parties, and backyard BBQ's or office parties , whatever.
It's the way we dance to our music.
Men sway their hip to the beat and women do too, but in a more exaggerated style.
Sticking out their buts and jiggling , twerking or wineing as we call it.
Old , young and even kids ,lol.
Everybody's doing it and we have been dancing like that ever since I was a kid.

Of course it's sexually suggestive , but in our culture , sexually suggestive does not automatically equate taboo or bad.


----------



## ReformedHubby

I don't think I own my wife but there are some acts and behaviors that are only for me, the man she married. I am not saying that twerking should be banned. I am saying that I don't know too many married american men that would approve of their wife twerking in a bar or a club without them being present. There is a very common saying that states that most men want "a lady in the streets, but a freak in the bedroom". If you're my wife the "freak" part of you should only be shown to me. Not random dudes at the bar thinking to themselves, "I bet I could hit that". 

I think the lines have pretty much been drawn in this thread. To twerk or not to twerk is the question, at this point I think we are pretty much split down the middle. I must admit not at all what I expected. I thought that more would be against it (especially the men). Perhaps my wife and I are old people in young bodies.


----------



## Faithful Wife

CM....just like some people here cannot grasp the "flavor" of carnival...you probably can't grasp the "puritanism" that still runs rampant here. It would probably shock you if you were here long enough to see how uptight some people are. Some people do not want to be aroused, period.

(that statement isn't directed at anyone else so please don't go after me)


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Nig*



Faithful Wife said:


> CM....just like some people here cannot grasp the "flavor" of carnival...you probably can't grasp the "puritanism" that still runs rampant here. It would probably shock you if you were here long enough to see how uptight some people are. Some people do not want to be aroused, period.
> 
> (that statement isn't directed at anyone else so please don't go after me)


I agree a lot of people are uptight, but I don't see it as a problem to try to atleast have some respect for their values. It is sometimes hard to distinguish the line between puritanism and decent moral standards. But you do agree that its good to have some societal standards when it comes to public sexuality?


----------



## Faithful Wife

Lon, I don't see how that discussion can go anywhere good.

I'm quite a bit more liberal and sexual than most people I know, and yet I am decent and have moral standards. I can only judge myself, not others.

I just think CM would have some culture shock if he came and stayed in this country for awhile...same way I think some/many people here would have culture shock if they staed in his country for awhile.


----------



## ReformedHubby

*Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Nig*



Lon said:


> I agree a lot of people are uptight, but I don't see it as a problem to try to atleast have some respect for their values. It is sometimes hard to distinguish the line between puritanism and decent moral standards. But you do agree that its good to have some societal standards when it comes to public sexuality?


Well, FH did say that she only twerks for her man, so in my opinion she does have similar values as the more conservative posters in this thread.


----------



## Faithful Wife

True ReformedHubby...for the purposes of this thread, yes, I am a very good and Faithful Wife.

(as for my actual conduct throughout the rest of my life....um.....no comment)


----------



## committed4ever

Well I guess I'm kinda double minded on it. On the one hand I guess I never associated it in my younger days as come hither behavior.

On the other hand Little C4E will not be permitted to twerk. Ever.


----------



## Faithful Wife

All of your thoughts on these issues change when you have kids, committed. You'll be amazed at what was just fine and now is NO WAY.


----------



## Moulin

ReformedHubby said:


> I don't think I own my wife but there are some acts and behaviors that are only for me, the man she married. I am not saying that twerking should be banned. I am saying that I don't know too many married american men that would approve of their wife twerking in a bar or a club without them being present. There is a very common saying that states that most men want "a lady in the streets, but a freak in the bedroom". If you're my wife the "freak" part of you should only be shown to me. Not random dudes at the bar thinking to themselves, "I bet I could hit that".
> 
> I think the lines have pretty much been drawn in this thread. To twerk or not to twerk is the question, at this point I think we are pretty much split down the middle. I must admit not at all what I expected. I thought that more would be against it (especially the men). Perhaps my wife and I are old people in young bodies.


I can be a freak in the sheets but doing so in public and then posting on the internet - not so much. Add to the factor that employers and colleagues may see and judge as well and it's just not smart personally nor professionally. (Unless you're a young pop starlette looking for a lot of publicity, perhaps?)


----------



## Entropy3000

*Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Nig*



DvlsAdvc8 said:


> What is with all the snide comments?
> 
> What do you not get about my saying that most of these women DONT WANT MEN INVOLVED AT ALL?


Lighten up Marine


----------



## Created2Write

Moulin said:


> I can be a freak in the sheets but doing so in public and then posting on the internet - not so much. Add to the factor that employers and colleagues may see and judge as well and it's just not smart personally nor professionally. (Unless you're a young pop starlette looking for a lot of publicity, perhaps?)


I actually had a potential coworker look up my FB before getting hired.


----------



## ReformedHubby

Created2Write said:


> I actually had a potential coworker look up my FB before getting hired.


LOL, I do this all the time. Ironically sometimes I actually like the fact that the person likes to have a good time. Especially if its for sales.


----------



## Entropy3000

Just to show I am a good guy. And enjoy laughing at myself, perhaps some of you can take mild entertainment from this. This is a believe it or not ... I don't care.

--------


So I have explained to some that the timing of this thread has something to do with me posting so much.

On my company trip last week ... I was invited Thursday to a GNO. The focal point was my bosses wife. She is 31 and has a baby. My boss wanted her to go out and have fun. Now keep in mind he is ok with all sorts of fun things she gets into that some of the rest of us husbands might cringe about. A whole other discussion. She is a really nice lady and pretty hot too. There were to be three others all currently single ... and me. I know all of them well enough as colleagues. Drink with them often enough.

No doubt I could help c0ckblock. No doubt I would be fun. No I am not a gay friend, but they do know I have my boundaries. So maybe close enough.

It is not beyond the realm of possibility that I could sell this to my wife. I mean one of the ladies had our rental car. What else would I do? I was out with her.

I would probably get to pay. LOL. That may have been the bigest draw. Company card, but my female co-worker with the car could pay as well. Together we could have a bigger bill I suppose.

I do like to dance. This reminded me of when Sheldon went out on a GNO in Big Bang Theory. So oh what a great fantasy this would have been. What harm could have come with me and four very nice ladies drinking heavily and out dancing? Likely it would have been just fine. 

At first I was going to go if it was just dinner and drinks. But the agenda grew. So I backed out. You can believe they were just teating me .. but I know better. I suppose they could have gotten me into LaBare but that is not something I would want to do.


Dear Penthouse. LOL. No really. Some part of me wishes I went.


----------



## Faithful Wife

My friends' and co-workers husbands usually put me in the "man" role to take them out and protect them. My single friends put me in that role sometimes, too.


----------



## Entropy3000

Created2Write said:


> I actually had a potential coworker look up my FB before getting hired.


Our bosses boss read us the riot act about what was being posted on FB.

My wife looks at what gets posted when I am on my trips.


----------



## Entropy3000

Faithful Wife said:


> My friends' and co-workers husbands usually put me in the "man" role to take them out and protect them. My single friends put me in that role sometimes, too.


When we had a team trip to Chicago a while back I absolutely made sure my bosses wife was safe. Yes this included me having drinks and conversation with her which was delightful. But no harm was going to befall her on my watch.

I am not just talking about bar stuff. We were out and about late at night in the city.


----------



## ReformedHubby

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Who said anything about breaking it up? Its about getting involved. If the girl I'm interested in is in that group, I'm inclined to go after her and figure out a way to start a playful conversation. I don't "have to" do this... as if I'm resorting to something. These groups of women are fun. My whole point was relating that its easy to distinguish the ones that are interested in men getting involved and the ones that absolutely don't want any men involved. I don't bother with the latter.


Based on my experience from back in the day if you're a male thats a good dancer in a club you don't even have to break the group up. You can literally make eye contact, point at one, and call her over. This is something you won't find in a pick up book. No conversation needed. Once you start dancing your bodies talk to each other. Perhaps that's why I'm so paranoid about the power of dance. But then again I grew up preferring to break dance on cardboard instead of chucking a football. So my vantage point may be different. Dance is a very powerful aphrodisiac.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Reformed...I'm going to make a guess that you have a lot of natural game....others may not ever have that much girl appeal like you do.

I mean, if you can twerk, I'm gonna guess what your bod looks like....yeah, you don't need the PUA books with a back like that.


----------



## Created2Write

Faithful Wife said:


> Reformed...I'm going to make a guess that you have a lot of natural game....others may not ever have that much girl appeal like you do.
> 
> I mean, if you can twerk, I'm gonna guess what your bod looks like....yeah, you don't need the PUA books with a back like that.


Ooooohhhhhh yeah. 

I watched my husband battle in the park against a break dancer. Sexiest thing _*eeevvveeerrr*_. I had a grin on my face the whole time. 


.........



Time to brush my teeth so I can jump him when he gets home!


----------



## Entropy3000

reformedhubby said:


> based on my experience from back in the day if you're a male thats a good dancer in a club you don't even have to break the group up. You can literally make eye contact, point at one, and call her over. This is something you won't find in a pick up book. No conversation needed. Once you start dancing your bodies talk to each other. Perhaps that's why i'm so paranoid about the power of dance. But then again i grew up preferring to break dance on cardboard instead of chucking a football. So my vantage point may be different. Dance is a very powerful aphrodisiac.


b i n g o

Let them come to you. You nailed it. Very powerful stuff.


----------



## diwali123

*A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night*

I think the worse someone is at it the more obscene it looks. Not sure how that works.


----------



## Caribbean Man

ReformedHubby said:


> Based on my experience from back in the day if you're a male thats a good dancer in a club you don't even have to break the group up. You can literally make eye contact, point at one, and call her over. This is something you won't find in a pick up book. No conversation needed. Once you start dancing your bodies talk to each other. Perhaps that's why I'm so paranoid about the power of dance. But then again I grew up preferring to break dance on cardboard instead of chucking a football. So my vantage point may be different. Dance is a very powerful aphrodisiac.


Haha!

You just brought back sweet memories of my teenage years.
We used to practise our break dance moves on cheap vinyl.
But that was around the 80's
Those days were really nice.

I began clubbing during the 90's
About that pack/ group of women in the club , my technique was quite simple.
I didn't bother to single any one out , because they usually
" protected" each other, and got a kick out of shooting down guys who attempted to get at one of them.
So I simply joined the group, bought a rounds of drinks / offer some smokes [ _usually Benson & Hedges menthol , because back then ladies preferred that flavour ._] and danced with all of them.
When the music slowed , then I made my move to the one I had my eyes on.
By then they would have dropped their guard.

The eye contact move I only used on single girls at the bar.


----------



## diwali123

*A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night*

You know when they couldn't show Elvis from the waist down on TV? 
They said his hip movements looked like thrusting during sex. Looking now its hard to see that as being anything other than dancing. 
But African Americans had been dancing like that for a very long time. 

Question is: anyone know if at that same time they were allowed to show female hula dancers or belly dancers on tv dancing? I know they weren't allowed to show belly buttons on TV until the 70's.


----------



## Entropy3000

*Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night*



diwali123 said:


> You know when they couldn't show Elvis from the waist down on TV?
> They said his hip movements looked like thrusting during sex. Looking now its hard to see that as being anything other than dancing.
> But African Americans had been dancing like that for a very long time.
> 
> Question is: anyone know if at that same time they were allowed to show female hula dancers or belly dancers on tv dancing? I know they weren't allowed to show belly buttons on TV until the 70's.


Elvis lost his wife to a karate instructor. If Elvis were alive and approached my wife like that I would kick his @$$. LOL.

Back in the 70s I was around folks who had what amounts to group sex. Free love if you will.

It was a bad idea then and it still is. 

My point is that things do not have to linearly head in a direction and therefore are correct to continue that way. We are allowed to engage our brains and make decisions based on our values and not just do things out of peer pressure or following the crowd. Things actually tend to work in more of a periodic motion like a pendulum with a lessening amplitude, seeking a middle ground as opposed to seeking the extreme. It is Darwinian. 

I love diversity. It is a strength. But I do not concede that changing the US culture to match even an island paradise is the perfect solution. Change will occur over time. Just because some folks find this the right thing to do outside of the US does not mean it is the right thing for our culture. We are a melting pot. Indeed there are influences in the US. But we get to choose what is right for us as individuals. Self determination is a very important part of our way of life and it is attacked daily from all directions. Please do pursue your happiness. But lets not degrade those that shake their behinds nor those who are not ok with that. Choice rules the day. There are only two people that matter in these things. The couple themselves. But you have to believe that first. It has to be your primary concern. If it is not then I get the disconnect.


----------



## diwali123

*A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night*

Wait, Elvis' karate instructor stole Elvis' wife?


----------



## diwali123

*A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night*

I watched some videos from Trinidad AT, for some reason when people know what they are doing and it's in time with the music it just looks like sexy dancing. 
Not my type of thing honestly but I've never been a fan of touching strangers at all. 

It's the clumsy people who are randomly shaking it like "can you see my labia yet?" that look completely gross. Miley included. It's just awkward and an attention grabber, looks like they are thinking "I hate my dad so hard."


----------



## ReformedHubby

Faithful Wife said:


> I mean, if you can twerk, I'm gonna guess what your bod looks like....yeah, you don't need the PUA books with a back like that.


Ha, its my wife's favorite feature. Perhaps this is TMI but we've been married over a decade and she smacks me on the bottom several times a day, or grabs a handful of buns whenever she feels like. Always by surprise though so I never know when its coming. I'll admit that sometimes it can be annoying if I'm grilling or drinking a beverage, but I wouldn't stop her from doing it. Apparently she gets something out of it.


----------



## Entropy3000

*Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night*



diwali123 said:


> Wait, Elvis' karate instructor stole Elvis' wife?


Oh yes. Look it up. Total trivia and very much obfuscation on my part.  having nothing to do with your point. Just Elvis trivia. So even the great Elvis lost his wife to another man.

http://www.tracyskarate.com/Stories/Elvis black gi!.htm


----------



## diwali123

*A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night*

Damn. That's harsh. That's worse than leaving George Harrison for Eric Clapton. 

I think women dancing sexy together is totally annoying and an obvious ploy for attention unless they are truly into each other: the worst thing to happen to night life ever.


----------



## Entropy3000

*Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night*



diwali123 said:


> Damn. That's harsh. That's worse than leaving George Harrison for Eric Clapton.
> 
> I think women dancing sexy together is totally annoying and an obvious ploy for attention unless they are truly into each other: the worst thing to happen to night life ever.


The real life Layla. She looks good even in middle age .....




It seems to be a real trend for ladies to go out of their way to act sexual with each other. The ones I know do it for the male attention. Do some of them dig chicks too? Oh perhaps. There are some who like female strippers. But again, it seems to be trendy to do this. Some guys eat it up. Whatever works. I see this a lot.


----------



## diwali123

*A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night*

I read one of her books. My ex was a wannabe musician and she wrote a great book about creativity in music. 
Damn she must be good in bed. Lol.


----------



## diwali123

*A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night*

And her sister is Prudence. She went with them to India.


----------



## Entropy3000

Further threadjack ...

I love the song Wonderful Tonight. It was about her as well.

Again though back to this thread, a middle age woman who has confidence and takes care of herself can be very very sexy and has more to offer than her younger counterpart ... as far as I am concerned.


----------



## diwali123

*A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night*

But acting like a teenager? Not so much.


----------



## ReformedHubby

Caribbean Man said:


> I began clubbing during the 90's
> About that pack/ group of women in the club , my technique was quite simple.
> I didn't bother to single any one out , because they usually
> " protected" each other, and got a kick out of shooting down guys who attempted to get at one of them.
> So I simply joined the group, bought a rounds of drinks / offer some smokes [ _usually Benson & Hedges menthol , because back then ladies preferred that flavour ._] and danced with all of them.
> When the music slowed , then I made my move to the one I had my eyes on.
> By then they would have dropped their guard.
> 
> The eye contact move I only used on single girls at the bar.


Hmmmmm you and Entropy3000 got me thinking. Why should we let all these weird guys with funny hats and black nail polish make all the money off of pick up books. Granted we're all retired from single life I still think the young bucks out there could use some old school knowledge. 

I am fascinated by how similar club nightlife is to the wild. There is definitely a pecking order for the males. Based on your description of your club experiences. I have to ask how many times were you dancing with a girl only to find some guy staring at you? You ask her if its her boyfriend, and she says, "no he is just a guy that bought me drinks". Perhaps the book could be for those poor guys. The cats that buy the drinks and watch the girl run off and get freaky with another guy. It would be a best seller. 

Totally just kidding....kind of....


----------



## Caribbean Man

ReformedHubby said:


> I have to ask how many times were you dancing with a girl only to find some guy staring at you? You ask her if its her boyfriend, and she says, "no he is just a guy that bought me drinks". Perhaps the book could be for those poor guys. *The cats that buy the drinks and watch the girl run off and get freaky with another guy. It would be a best seller. *


lol.
What about the guy that_ paid_ for her to get into the club in the first place?

Don't want to turn this into a " game thread" but some lessons I've learned about women, sex and game , I've learned in a club setting.
One time I was hanging with a group of guy friends in a club. One of the guys , a guy whose had money and drove a nice car whilst the rest of us didn't even have a car , had his eyes on this beautiful, hot looking Latin chick, but he was afraid to approach her.
He didn't want the other guys to know so he asked me to set him up with her, gave me some money to buy a drink and take it to her.
I didn't know her either, but I was never afraid to approach chicks.
So I went across to her and started chatting her up.
Then I explained to her about my friend.
I never forgot what she told me next.
She said;
"_Real men don't share their women , and never trust your friend with your a woman you love._.."
_>She<_ then asked me if I wanted to dance..
The rest is history.


----------



## Faithful Wife

There are so many books out there already for single game you guys...please don't write that book. Write good marriage books instead, on how to be that "hot boyfriend" to your woman even long after marriage, the one who takes her dancing, makes her swoon, and gives her the moon and stars....and then makes her make her happy face all night long.


----------



## always_alone

Is it just me, or is there something seriously ironic about all these guys who are too hot for their own good sharing war stories about how irresistible they are, in practically the same breath as they are chastising women for being too hot for their own good?


----------



## Faithful Wife

Just married women they are chastising though...not single ones.


----------



## always_alone

Faithful Wife said:


> There are so many books out there already for single game you guys...please don't write that book. Write good marriage books instead, on how to be that "hot boyfriend" to your woman even long after marriage, the one who takes her dancing, makes her swoon, and gives her the moon and stars....and then makes her make her happy face all night long.


Oh but it's so much more fun to write the fantasy of being all that to all women. The wife? Meh. As long as she "behaves herself" all is cool.


----------



## always_alone

Faithful Wife said:


> Just married women they are chastising though...not single ones.


Married ones started this thread, to be sure. But seems to me that line has been seriously blurred.


----------



## southern wife

*Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night*



diwali123 said:


> I think the worse someone is at it the more obscene it looks. Not sure how that works.


:iagree: Like Miley Cyrus  That's how it works.....IMO


----------



## Faithful Wife

always...I meant they are only chastising the married women who are "behaving badly"...not single women.

Point being, I *think* the objection is to doing this in marriage, not just any single gal doing it. (I haven't read all the posts, however).


----------



## ReformedHubby

always_alone said:


> Is it just me, or is there something seriously ironic about all these guys who are too hot for their own good sharing war stories about how irresistible they are, in practically the same breath as they are chastising women for being too hot for their own good?


Granted this thread has gone in a million different directions, but I am not chastising women for being too hot. I was only stating that I believe that a married women shoudn't put herself out there like that on purpose. Why should someone apologize for being hot? T

As far as me being irresistible I can't help it that my wife views me this way. I use all my game/seduction at home now. After more than ten years of marriage I'd bet good money that I will never be making one of those, "I'm in a sexless marriage" posts.


----------



## Caribbean Man

always_alone said:


> Is it just me, or is there something seriously ironic about all these guys who are too hot for their own good sharing war stories about how irresistible they are, in practically the same breath as they are chastising women for being too hot for their own good?


Please,
If you're going to start calling out people at least identify exactly who you're talking about and pinpoint the irony.

I have not in any of my posts on this thread chastise ANY woman , married or single for being " too hot for their own good."
In fact I have stated categorically in ALL of my posts that I find absolutely nothing wrong with this type of dancing as long as marital boundaries agreed on before were kept.
In fact just yesterday I posted that not because its sexually suggestive means that it's automatically taboo or bad.

I think the real irony lies in the person who " liked " your post.
Just yesterday evening she was also chastising the very women you speak of and fully agreeing with the men you speak of.

I think playing both sides of an argument, and attacking one side when it's convenient is hypocrisy.
What do you think? <----[ Socratic Irony ]

Therein lies the irony of your _>observation<_.

BTW , LMFAO - I'm Sexy And I Know It.


----------



## ReformedHubby

always_alone said:


> Oh but it's so much more fun to write the fantasy of being all that to all women. The wife? Meh. As long as she "behaves herself" all is cool.


Help me out here. Where is this coming from? Your post makes it seem as though I'm walking around flirting with women while expecting my wife to stay in the house and wear plain clothes so no one will be attracted to her. Am I confident in my own appearance sure, but whats wrong with that?


----------



## Entropy3000

always_alone said:


> Is it just me, or is there something seriously ironic about all these guys who are too hot for their own good sharing war stories about how irresistible they are, in practically the same breath as they are chastising women for being too hot for their own good?


We are just saying that women are sexual beings too. We are saying that when men and women socialize, drink, dance and engage with each other it is a lot of fun but it is filled with sexual tension. It is not about five year olds.

Women enjoy sex and intimacy too. Think on that.

Sex is not bad. When you bring in the context of marriage sexual activity of various levels matters. This is where boundaries come into play or are ignored. Don't shoot the messanger. On the one hand we do not want to isolate men from women. We also do not want open marriages. Well some do on here. But the rest of us exist in the continuum in between. Dancing, drinking and engaging with those of the opposite sex has a sexual component. It is NOT a black and white world.

I am going to assume that most of the people on here are not virgins. In fact we have the ladies come on here and defend their right to have as many sexual partners as they wish. Indeed. Go for it. These women for sure are in play. Many of them have sex with men. Many are single and many are not.

We are discussing venues where this sexual tension takes place. Like twerking in a club full of arguably horny men AND women. I realize that none of those women are posting here. They are the others. But the others do exist.

Yes. I confess. There have been some number of women in my life who have jumped my bones and made me feel irresistable. Who have absolutely gone wild and ravaged me. Is this not a normal occurrence for people? If not, I am very sorry. I had no idea. This is a marriage forum. I happen to think that marriage has a lot to do about sex.


----------



## Caribbean Man

I have stopped wasting my time trying to explain stuff to people who are hell bent on misinterpreting and misunderstanding what I explicitly stated.
.
.
Their loss,
Not mine.
.
.


----------



## diwali123

*A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night*

I didn't know it was a TAM rule that you can't like something just because it's funny.


----------



## Created2Write

Faithful Wife said:


> There are so many books out there already for single game you guys...please don't write that book. Write good marriage books instead, on how to be that "hot boyfriend" to your woman even long after marriage, the one who takes her dancing, makes her swoon, and gives her the moon and stars....and then makes her make her happy face all night long.


For the love of every couple who has lost this, YES! Please!


----------



## Caribbean Man

Nothing funny about hypocrisy.


----------



## Created2Write

In this thread I've seen: men and a few women posting their concerns about married women drinking and dancing in a highly sexual way without their husbands present, and offer encouragement to keep in mind boundaries and respect for their spouse...that, when one marries, their independence is not the same as when they were single, or even dating. And I've seen other women and a few men discuss twerking/sexual dancing and why they don't think it's that big of a deal. 

And now, suddenly, those who were expressing their concern and encouraging caution are, somehow, criticizing women, and wanting them to stay at home? I think some people should avoid certain topics, as they only seem to see the worst. 

I'm all for women letting their hair down and having fun. I'm going to a Ladies Night at an adult store this Sunday evening; I don't know anyone there, and I'm going at my husband's encouragement. But I can say, straight up, when the lady at the register told me about the evening and I didn't know it was after hours and ladies only, my initial reaction was "Heeeeellllll, no." Because, even though I'm an adult and don't need to be monitored like a child, I'm also responsible enough to see the potential for temptation in a situation, and I'm not going to play with fire. And, more importantly, I didn't think my husband would be for it _at all_. Turns out, he was excited at the idea and, since it was after store hours and no guys allowed, my objections were addressed and I decided I would go.

Now, my strengths aren't going to be the same as someone elses, which is why I would never expect anyone else to live by my boundaries. For some women, and apparently many in this thread, twerking has little to no real sexual value, and they find it fun. I don't think anyone in this thread was criticizing you for that. For some women, as had been said, they like going to strip clubs with their husbands, and even without them. I would never, ever, consider it, but a couple of my exes would have killed to have a girl like that. For them, it's just fun. Everyone has different boundaries. 

The only thing that has been said, is that, when it comes to things that are widely considered to be sexual, it's smart to discuss such things with our spouses/SO's, to understand _their_ boundaries. Not to ask permission(which I think might be the issue here), but to double check their boundaries. It's a sign of respect, and doesn't at all mean that women should just stay at home and dress in unflattering clothes.  It just means, be respectful. As a spouse, you have that responsibility whether your like it or not. Courtesy. 

That's all.


----------



## ReformedHubby

Created2Write said:


> And now, suddenly, those who were expressing their concern and encouraging caution are, somehow, criticizing women, and wanting them to stay at home? I think some people should avoid certain topics, as they only seem to see the worst.


Who said women should stay at home? Good grief. Well, I can at least say that this thread took more time than other similar threads to go bad.


----------



## Created2Write

No one said women should stay at home, though some saw it that way.


----------



## Caribbean Man

ReformedHubby said:


> Who said women should stay at home? Good grief. Well, I can at least say that this thread took more time than other similar threads to go bad.


It's a rhetorical question she's asking, in order to point out the irony of it.
Its a style of writing.


----------



## committed4ever

always_alone said:


> Is it just me, or is there something seriously ironic about all these guys who are too hot for their own good sharing war stories about how irresistible they are, in practically the same breath as they are chastising women for being too hot for their own good?



CM *is* hot. I saw his picture. 

Just sayin...


----------



## Created2Write

committed4ever said:


> CM *is* hot. I saw his picture.
> 
> Just sayin...


For REALZ!!


----------



## Entropy3000

ReformedHubby said:


> Who said women should stay at home? Good grief. Well, I can at least say that this thread took more time than other similar threads to go bad.


Get in the kitchen and make me a sammich!!! :rofl:


----------



## diwali123

*A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night*



Created2Write said:


> In this thread I've seen: men and a few women posting their concerns about married women drinking and dancing in a highly sexual way without their husbands present, and offer encouragement to keep in mind boundaries and respect for their spouse...that, when one marries, their independence is not the same as when they were single, or even dating. And I've seen other women and a few men discuss twerking/sexual dancing and why they don't think it's that big of a deal.
> 
> And now, suddenly, those who were expressing their concern and encouraging caution are, somehow, criticizing women, and wanting them to stay at home? I think some people should avoid certain topics, as they only seem to see the worst.
> 
> I'm all for women letting their hair down and having fun. I'm going to a Ladies Night at an adult store this Sunday evening; I don't know anyone there, and I'm going at my husband's encouragement. But I can say, straight up, when the lady at the register told me about the evening and I didn't know it was after hours and ladies only, my initial reaction was "Heeeeellllll, no." Because, even though I'm an adult and don't need to be monitored like a child, I'm also responsible enough to see the potential for temptation in a situation, and I'm not going to play with fire. And, more importantly, I didn't think my husband would be for it _at all_. Turns out, he was excited at the idea and, since it was after store hours and no guys allowed, my objections were addressed and I decided I would go.
> 
> Now, my strengths aren't going to be the same as someone elses, which is why I would never expect anyone else to live by my boundaries. For some women, and apparently many in this thread, twerking has little to no real sexual value, and they find it fun. I don't think anyone in this thread was criticizing you for that. For some women, as had been said, they like going to strip clubs with their husbands, and even without them. I would never, ever, consider it, but a couple of my exes would have killed to have a girl like that. For them, it's just fun. Everyone has different boundaries.
> 
> The only thing that has been said, is that, when it comes to things that are widely considered to be sexual, it's smart to discuss such things with our spouses/SO's, to understand _their_ boundaries. Not to ask permission(which I think might be the issue here), but to double check their boundaries. It's a sign of respect, and doesn't at all mean that women should just stay at home and dress in unflattering clothes.  It just means, be respectful. As a spouse, you have that responsibility whether your like it or not. Courtesy.
> 
> That's all.


I'm just curious, you wouldn't want to go to a coed party at a sex shop because you're afraid of temptation? What kind of men do you think would be there alone? 
If anything Id be afraid of being stalked or followed! I don't even make eye contact with men in those stores.


----------



## diwali123

*A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night*



committed4ever said:


> CM *is* hot. I saw his picture.
> 
> Just sayin...


The way she worded that was hilarious. 

But I think men who can dance have a huge advantage especially in mostly white places. Because you know...white guys don't dance much.


----------



## diwali123

*A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night*

I just realized I think there was some twerking in Zumba. Oh god.
I did feel uncomfortable when men started showing up. 
I'm really showing my Puritanical streak. Lol


----------



## Created2Write

*Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night*



diwali123 said:


> I'm just curious, you wouldn't want to go to a coed party at a sex shop because you're afraid of temptation? What kind of men do you think would be there alone?
> If anything Id be afraid of being stalked or followed! I don't even make eye contact with men in those stores.


Not afraid...just cautious. I've never been to a party at a sex shop before, so I really don't know what kind of guys would be there, alone or otherwise. That worried me. I didn't want to put myself into any kind of compromising situation; one doesn't always foresee those kinds of situations, and a coed party at a sex shop just sounds too close to the fire for me. Moreover, I know my husband would not be okay if men were there, though at that point he might come with me, and all concerns would be moot. And yes, I was worried about being stalked and followed, too.

But it's not coed, so no worries now.


----------



## Created2Write

*Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night*



diwali123 said:


> The way she worded that was hilarious.
> 
> But I think men who can dance have a huge advantage especially in mostly white places. Because you know...white guys don't dance much.


Maybe not like _that_, but I know many white guys who dance very well.  Unless your kidding and I completely misread your post...which is a possibility. I've been awake since 5...


----------



## diwali123

*A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night*



Created2Write said:


> Not afraid...just cautious. I've never been to a party at a sex shop before, so I really don't know what kind of guys would be there, alone or otherwise. That worried me. I didn't want to put myself into any kind of compromising situation; one doesn't always foresee those kinds of situations, and a coed party at a sex shop just sounds too close to the fire for me. Moreover, I know my husband would not be okay if men were there, though at that point he might come with me, and all concerns would be moot. And yes, I was worried about being stalked and followed, too.
> 
> But it's not coed, so no worries now.


I don't think I've ever seen a good looking man in a sex shop other than my husband. 

Of course the one we usually go to is managed by a butch lesbian with black teeth who likes to follow me around telling stories about her various girlfriend's clits and which toys work best for which clit placement.


----------



## diwali123

*A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night*



Created2Write said:


> Maybe not like _that_, but I know many white guys who dance very well.  Unless your kidding and I completely misread your post...which is a possibility. I've been awake since 5...


Are they gay?


----------



## Entropy3000

*Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night*



diwali123 said:


> I'm just curious, you wouldn't want to go to a coed party at a sex shop because you're afraid of temptation? What kind of men do you think would be there alone?
> If anything Id be afraid of being stalked or followed! I don't even make eye contact with men in those stores.


The devil is in the details. If this is like those sex toy parties where women get together sans men then great. I think those are better at a womans home and not at the porn store but whatever. What exactly is "after hours"? LOL.

Indeed coed would seem odd if one went sans their SO. Because imagine the guys who would be there. Creepy. I would not do that without my wife and I would not want her to go alone either.

Then it may be ladies only because of a stripper or something. Probably not but it is possible.

Then you have to consider that an agressive guy can cause issues and the police are going to be less understanding ... right or wrong. 

But I suspect this is just a sex toy / dvd / dress up party. I could be wrong. I guess if it is dress up I would be concerned about those hidden voyeur cameras. My wife has enough concerns about that when we go to a bed and breakfast. 

Also if you go and there is a dancing bear .... run!!!!!! You could end up an extra in a porno.


----------



## Entropy3000

*Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night*



diwali123 said:


> The way she worded that was hilarious.
> 
> But I think men who can dance have a huge advantage especially in mostly white places. Because you know...white guys don't dance much.


This IS true. When white guys tell me they do not dance I want to slap them and say so you do not like women?

Yes, the white guy who dances all else equal is the man.


----------



## Entropy3000

*Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night*



diwali123 said:


> I don't think I've ever seen a good looking man in a sex shop other than my husband.
> 
> Of course the one we usually go to is managed by a butch lesbian with black teeth who likes to follow me around telling stories about her various girlfriend's clits and which toys work best for which clit placement.


What guys would go to a party like that? If they are not with their SO. I wonder what they want? OMG this is nuckenfutts. They would love to hook up. I mean guys already know to hang out outside of the male strip clubs to catch the women as they leave. Duh!! At a party a guy could come up and ask a women point blank all sorts of sexual questions with no pretense. Is that ok? 

But this is a good example of taking yet another venue. More sexually explicit. But marriage is all about trust so no problems. Venue does not matter. A guy can come up to you in starbucks and ask you if you use the g-spot stimulator to squirt. Yeah I want my wife having that conversation with random creepy guys. 
"It rubs the lotion on it skin". 

It is not like women go missing and found in a field somewhere .... Not a prime motivator but gee whiz! When my wife is out late at night I do not worry about her messing around. I worry about her having car trouble and out on the roadside where there is no cell connectivity. I am more concerned about creepy guys than anything else. But that is just me.


----------



## Created2Write

*Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night*



diwali123 said:


> Are they gay?


Noooooo, very much not. They're very heterosexual, masculine men. And absolutely amazing dancers. 

That's why I love Swing so much.


----------



## Created2Write

*Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night*



Entropy3000 said:


> The devil is in the details. If this is like those sex toy parties where women get together sans men then great. I think those are better at a womans home and not at the por store but whatever. What exactly is "after hours"? LOL.


Pure Romance! Love those parties.  But no, this isn't a Pure Romance parties. 

After hours, means after the store closes. 



> Indeed coed would seem odd if one went sans their SO. Because imagine the guys who would be there. Creepy. I would not do that without my wife and I would not ewant her to go alone either.


Precisely. I would be worried about desperate guys looking for a hook up, using game. Maybe a few PUA's....Bleh. 



> Then it may be ladies only because of a stripper or something. Probably not but it is possible.


As soon as a stripper shows up, I'm goooooooonnnnnnnnneeeeee.



> Then you have to consider that an agressive guy can cause issues and the police are going to be less understanding ... right or wrong.


*nods* Another concern with coed. Don't want some crazy ex following a girl and causing issues when he gets jealous. Chances are slim it would happen, but you hear about these things sometimes and I'd prefer to stay away!



> But I suspect this is just a sex toy / dvd / dress up party. I could be wrong. I guess if it is dress up I would be concerned about those hidden voyeur cameras. My wife has enough concerns about that when we go to a bed and breakfast.


I really don't know what it is...as soon as I'm unbearably uncomfortable, I'm gonna leave. I'm uncomfortable already, just going, but I'm also curious and trying to widen my sexual allure, and it'd be fun to be around the ladies. But yeah...as soon as I feel my boundaries are being crossed, I'll head home. 

Hopefully I win a prize first. 



> Also if you go and there is a dancing bear .... run!!!!!! You could end up an extra in a porno.


ROFL. Noted.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Diwali, I gotta agree. Everywhere I've been, the white guys tend to be more reserved. You look at the dance floor and its mostly women and black guys. lol

Of all of my guy friends, myself and one other are the only ones that dance, no matter how much we try to goad them into it and point out that most of these women want someone who will dance with them.

I cheated though, I took some urban dance classes. It was something like 15 women and ME. lol I was a little embarrassed to be there at first but ohhh the attention I got once they realize I wasn't gay. 

For Created, I think she's talking more formal dance rather than club dance. I took a salsa class not too long ago... sure enough, plenty of white guys there with their wives.


----------



## COGypsy

The real downside to this thread is the inappropriate image of a twerking Tigger that pops into my head every time I see the title.


You're welcome.


----------



## Created2Write

West and East Coast Swing: very easy steps, as long as one has rhythm and can count, and you don't have to be at an advanced level to loo really cool.  As my instructor used to say: if you can make the girl look amazing, everyone will think you're both pros. Nice thing about these two is they can be done to modern pop/rap/hip hop music, as long as it's not a super slow tempo. 

Salsa: fun, but boring if you're a beginner, and more difficult to count. Also, needs to be a faster tempo; slow Salsa just isn't fun. Also, SO much more fun if the guy has been trained and has the sexy Salsa posture....even if he's not throwing out crazy moves. Nice thing about Salsa, is that it is sexier. Lots of hip movements, but the guy has to be comfortable with that. 

Cha-Cha: BORING. I do not like the Cha-Cha. SO dull. Easy to count, but just...not fun. 

Nightclub: SO MUCH FUN! It's pretty, very easy to count, and can be done fast or slow. There does need to be a specific beat for it to work, but it's popular in a lot of songs. Looks very graceful when done with a guy who understands the rise and fall meant to be shown.


----------



## Entropy3000

*Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night*



Created2Write said:


> Pure Romance! Love those parties.  But no, this isn't a Pure Romance parties.
> 
> After hours, means after the store closes.
> 
> 
> 
> Precisely. I would be worried about desperate guys looking for a hook up, using game. Maybe a few PUA's....Bleh.
> 
> 
> 
> As soon as a stripper shows up, I'm goooooooonnnnnnnnneeeeee.
> 
> 
> 
> *nods* Another concern with coed. Don't want some crazy ex following a girl and causing issues when he gets jealous. Chances are slim it would happen, but you hear about these things sometimes and I'd prefer to stay away!
> 
> 
> 
> I really don't know what it is...as soon as I'm unbearably uncomfortable, I'm gonna leave. I'm uncomfortable already, just going, but I'm also curious and trying to widen my sexual allure, and it'd be fun to be around the ladies. But yeah...as soon as I feel my boundaries are being crossed, I'll head home.
> 
> Hopefully I win a prize first.
> 
> 
> 
> ROFL. Noted.


I think it could be just fine. Having a strong personality in things like this is important. Some folks are all about peer pressure.

I choose not to go to strip clubs. Did that when I was younger. Anyway, on one trip the guy in my group pulled into one. Sigh. Ok fine. My wife and I have had the talk. I will pay for my over priced drinks. I will be nice to the ladies trying to make a buck. I really would prefer talking to a woman who is not paid to talk to me though. I do not want to discuss politics with a stripper as smart as she may be. 

So the other three guys have vanilla scented women on their laps. I try to be polite but explain that I am not interested in doing so. Very awkward. I enjoyed the view from afar but really did not want to be there. Not my thing. 

My wife and I have a look but don't touch policy. But even if my wife was ok with me getting lap dances it is not something I am ok with. So my colleagues learned not to take me to the strip club and they also learned I am not one to cave to peer pressure. They were in and out of the VIP for a couple of hours. 

One said he would pay for mine. I said if he did she could keep the money but I was not going to the VIP room with her. She would have to enjoy herself without me.

Just saying that you have to know your boundaries and your breaking point. Many guys ... maybe even most cave in that situation. I can't play just the tip.

This said, struppers are zero challenge for me. Not interested. I have to be more alert with "real" women. They are way more dangerous. That is why I think dance clubs are more dangerous than strip clubs.


----------



## Entropy3000

*Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night*



diwali123 said:


> I just realized I think there was some twerking in Zumba. Oh god.
> I did feel uncomfortable when men started showing up.
> I'm really showing my Puritanical streak. Lol


Some guys like to hang out in the back for the view. We all know this. But they get bored after a bit. Different dynamic.

Now what can be very steamy is coed yoga classes. Especially those that are closer to the tantric side of things.


----------



## Entropy3000

*Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night*



Created2Write said:


> Not afraid...just cautious. I've never been to a party at a sex shop before, so I really don't know what kind of guys would be there, alone or otherwise. That worried me. I didn't want to put myself into any kind of compromising situation; one doesn't always foresee those kinds of situations, and a coed party at a sex shop just sounds too close to the fire for me. Moreover, I know my husband would not be okay if men were there, though at that point he might come with me, and all concerns would be moot. And yes, I was worried about being stalked and followed, too.
> 
> But it's not coed, so no worries now.


Is this shop out in the middle of BFE? Where one has to drive many miles with no civilization? I am hoping not. Those are high class shops.


----------



## Created2Write

*Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night*



Entropy3000 said:


> Is this shop out in the middle of BFE? Where one has to drive many miles with no civilization? I am hoping not. Those are high class shops.


No, it's in the middle of our city, across from the mall.


----------



## diwali123

*A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night*

I'm very free and open in a lot of ways but sitting around with other women looking at sex toys just sounds really uncomfortable.


----------



## diwali123

*A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night*



Entropy3000 said:


> Some guys like to hang out in the back for the view. We all know this. But they get bored after a bit. Different dynamic.
> 
> Now what can be very steamy is coed yoga classes. Especially those that are closer to the tantric side of things.


I purposely avoid looking at anyone during yoga. God Im so conservative in public. Lol.


----------



## Amplexor

*Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night*



diwali123 said:


> But I think men who can dance have a huge advantage especially in mostly white places. Because you know...white guys don't dance much.


My wife and I were at a swing band dance fund raiser a few years ago. When a Tango came out of nowhere the floor cleared with the exception of my wife and I. We rocked it and all the ladies were impressed, the guys were more like, "you ass-hole!"


----------



## Created2Write

*Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night*



diwali123 said:


> I'm very free and open in a lot of ways but sitting around with other women looking at sex toys just sounds really uncomfortable.


Only if others are uncomfortable and especially if the host is. It can be really fun if planned well, and lead well. No one is forced or pressured to look at something they don't want to, or play the games they don't want to play. 

Course, that's only the Pure Romance parties...


----------



## committed4ever

*Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night*



diwali123 said:


> The way she worded that was hilarious.
> 
> But I think men who can dance have a huge advantage especially in mostly white places. Because you know...white guys don't dance much.


Oh that wasn't a joke. I've seen a picture of CM and his wife and he really is HOT!


----------



## diwali123

*A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night*



Created2Write said:


> Only if others are uncomfortable and especially if the host is. It can be really fun if planned well, and lead well. No one is forced or pressured to look at something they don't want to, or play the games they don't want to play.
> 
> Course, that's only the Pure Romance parties...


I prefer to buy my toys alone or with h. 
But then I don't really like the house sale parties. I went to a lingerie one because my coworker had to have a certain number of people there to get a gift. 
I told her I had no money and I didn't buy a thing.


----------



## always_alone

ReformedHubby said:


> Help me out here. Where is this coming from?


May I draw your attention to your original post?



ReformedHubby said:


> These moms that I thought were so wholesome were twerking on one another. Also based on the photos they were drinking a lot and it wasn't even late yet. I found it both humorous and disturbing at the same time.
> 
> The more I thought about it though the more I became disturbed by it. If they are grinding on each other now what will they be doing at midnight? Why would they post this pic when they have daughters and husbands at home that would see it? Lastly, they are too damn old to be twerking!


So these moms are disturbing to you because they drink and dance. But you, on the other hand, are just happy with the way you look and how successful with the ladies?


----------



## always_alone

Entropy3000 said:


> Don't shoot the messanger. On the one hand we do not want to isolate men from women. We also do not want open marriages. Well some do on here. But the rest of us exist in the continuum in between. Dancing, drinking and engaging with those of the opposite sex has a sexual component. It is NOT a black and white world.


Agreed that it's not a black and white world. But tell me why is it totally okay for you to go to a strip club, but not okay for these women to go twerking and drinking?

Is it because you didn't want to be there? Well, doesn't matter, you were, and you could have easily broken your boundaries. But you didn't. But we have no evidence that they did either. Just a bunch of supposition.

Was it because your wife is okay with you looking as long as you don't touch? 

That seems fair, but as far as we know the wives who are the subject of the OP had their husbands' blessings as well. They posted everything to FB, after all. It's not like they were hiding.


----------



## Entropy3000

always_alone said:


> May I draw your attention to your original post?
> 
> 
> 
> So these moms are disturbing to you because they drink and dance. But you, on the other hand, are just happy with the way you look and how successful with the ladies?


I did not see where he was drinking and dancing. So where is the disconnect?

This is not Saudi Arabia for most of us. It is not Hedonism III either for most of us. Life is in between. What is so difficult about this?

We are pointing out that people are sexual. Those that deny this are either naive of disengenuous. In either case do not trust those people. 

We are all accountable for our actions.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Entropy3000 said:


> It is not Hedonism III either for most of us.


lol,
Have you ever been to that resort?
Sweet, sweeeet Jamaica!


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Nig*



Caribbean Man said:


> lol,
> Have you ever been to that resort?
> Sweet, sweeeet Jamaica!


I have a friend that has been there a few times, I saw a coupe pics lol.


----------



## Entropy3000

always_alone said:


> Agreed that it's not a black and white world. But tell me why is it totally okay for you to go to a strip club, but not okay for these women to go twerking and drinking?
> 
> Is it because you didn't want to be there? Well, doesn't matter, you were, and you could have easily broken your boundaries. But you didn't. But we have no evidence that they did either. Just a bunch of supposition.
> 
> Was it because your wife is okay with you looking as long as you don't touch?
> 
> That seems fair, but as far as we know the wives who are the subject of the OP had their husbands' blessings as well. They posted everything to FB, after all. It's not like they were hiding.


Those women are not my wife. I do not care what they do. If one of them was married to me I would have a problem with the venue period. Just like I would have a problem with my wife hanging out at a guys apartment. Even if they just watch TV. I have a problem with the venue. My wife would not be ok with me dancing or hanging out in a woman's apartment. So equity here. Boundaries are designed to have a DMZ if you will. So there is not this shooting from the hip going on when you are drinking.

I do not go to strip clubs. I avoid them. BUT as I pointed out my wife and I had this chat. Look but do not touch is the boundary. I handled an awkward situation ... a business situation. Yes that is hard to understand. I chose not to sit in the car. But I also chose not to cross my boundary. Life in corporate America takes some finesse sometimes.

In fact I remember telling my wife upfront that I would be going to dinner and drinks while I was there in that city but I would head back to the hotel early. She said why. I said well sometimes they like to hit the strip clubs. She then told me I should go. She thought further and said, that she had no problem with looking but no touching. So this is an example of a husband communicating with his wife and agreeing to a boundary. When they went I had no heads up we were going. This was on purpose no doubt. Guys like to use peer pressure on each other.

My wife realizes that my weak spot is not strippers. I feel sorry for strippers for a number of reasons. They are in the sex industry and ever since I spent those times in the hooker bars while on shore patrol I have really been turned off by this stuff.

My wife has plenty of freedom. I will not elaborate here. We have an equitable agreement on things. But FWIW I purposely did not marry a party girl. My boss did. His choice.

BTW my wife will be meeting some of my colleagues next week in SF. I have tried to prepare her. We shall see. Could be interesting. She got a kick out of the party bus last year. No she did not pole dance. I would only be ok with that IF it was for my eyes only.

I should note too that I would not have been on the party bus without my wife. Too much grinding and groping.


----------



## Entropy3000

Caribbean Man said:


> lol,
> Have you ever been to that resort?
> Sweet, sweeeet Jamaica!


Does a place like that exist? 

Should I be ok with it if my wife wants to go? Or would I be jealous, insecure and controlling if I cared?


----------



## always_alone

Entropy3000 said:


> We are pointing out that people are sexual. Those that deny this are either naive of disengenuous. In either case do not trust those people.
> 
> We are all accountable for our actions.


No one has denied that people are sexual or that they are accountable for their actions. 

This whole thread is about being "disturbed" by a group of women being both sexual and accountable. 

If all people are this way, why are we all of a sudden disturbed by these ones?


----------



## ReformedHubby

always_alone said:


> So these moms are disturbing to you because they drink and dance. But you, on the other hand, are just happy with the way you look and how successful with the ladies?


I really don't see any connection at all between my former single life and my opinion on these women. It was well over a decade ago. If I were out engaging in those behaviors now you would have a point. 

Nothing wrong with drinking and dancing in the club *with your husband*. I just happen to be one of those people that does not approve of this activity if ones spouse is not present. 

Why does it bother you that I have so much swag (a high opinion of myself)? The good lord made me this way for a reason. My confidence is what made me successful in business. My confidence is also a big reason my wife is still very much attracted to me.

I'm assuming that women get dolled up for a GNO because they want to look good. I will also assume that most women know it when they're looking good. Soooo why exactly is it a problem for you that I'm a tall, handsome, confident, deliciously chocolatey man. I don't see what it has to do with my original post. Unless of course you have a particular bias against tall dark and handsome men. 

After much thought I've decided you're right. I shall send an anonymous apology to the women I referred to in the original post, and I will immediately make an appointment with a plastic surgeon to begin facial reconstruction surgery to make myself look like the elephant man. Will this make you happy?


----------



## Faithful Wife

Ah yes Hedonism....where you can have a 4 way with your grandparents.


----------



## Created2Write

What we do leaves an impression on those around us; our kids, our spouses, our friends, our coworkers...it's always important to keep in mind who may be watching, and what kind of example we're being. If the women in the OP were having fun(drinking and dancing) responsibly, then all is well and, by all means, go for it. There's nothing unwholesome about drinking and dancing in and of themselves. But if they were being careless, as the OP seemed concerned over, then it's cause for concern. It also sounded like this behavior was out of the ordinary for the women, so much so that his wife was shocked. That could mean nothing, it could mean something.

This isn't about individuals, it's about what people consider acceptable within marriage. I've had to block people on my FB for posting some crazy things, things that made me embarrassed for them. If I have kids some day, and I got on a LNO and start drinking, I better have 1) told my husband I was going and exactly what I planning on doing and who else was planning to be there and 2) made sure I don't do anything I wouldn't want my kids seeing their mom do. 

_That_ is, I think, what people are getting at. This isn't about comparing women to men, or wives to their husbands...


----------



## Entropy3000

always_alone said:


> No one has denied that people are sexual or that they are accountable for their actions.
> 
> This whole thread is about being "disturbed" by a group of women being both sexual and accountable.
> 
> If all people are this way, why are we all of a sudden disturbed by these ones?


Actually that has been addressed I think. His wife agreed to not do that. Neither the OP or his wife were comfortable about that situation.

So chalk up a win for communication and boundaries between a man and wife.

But the value add ... to me anyway is the discussion we can have about these situations. This is talk about marriage so I think we are doing just that. We look at situations and scenarios and ask ourselves ... how would we feel? What would we do? I think this is good to get others perspectives. It is also good to think these through so when confronted you already know the answers.

Some guys are fine with their wives doing whatever. Some even like when their wives push the envelope as long as their wives tell them about it later. A little kinky for me, but different strokes.

Some guys like to watch their wives flirt and interact with other men. Not me. There are folks on this forum who have open marriages as well. Their choice. Some folks are into swinging. But there are a lot of shades of gray when dealing with real people.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Faithful Wife said:


> Ah yes Hedonism....where you can have a 4 way with your grandparents.


lol, yes.
...however hedonism or not ,Jamaica is sweet, 
Just not as sweet as Trinidad & Tobago.


----------



## Entropy3000

Created2Write said:


> What we do leaves an impression on those around us; our kids, our spouses, our friends, our coworkers...it's always important to keep in mind who may be watching, and what kind of example we're being. If the women in the OP were having fun(drinking and dancing) responsibly, then all is well and, by all means, go for it. There's nothing unwholesome about drinking and dancing in and of themselves. But if they were being careless, as the OP seemed concerned over, then it's cause for concern. It also sounded like this behavior was out of the ordinary for the women, so much so that his wife was shocked. That could mean nothing, it could mean something.
> 
> This isn't about individuals, it's about what people consider acceptable within marriage. I've had to block people on my FB for posting some crazy things, things that made me embarrassed for them. If I have kids some day, and I got on a LNO and start drinking, I better have 1) told my husband I was going and exactly what I planning on doing and who else was planning to be there and 2) made sure I don't do anything I wouldn't want my kids seeing their mom do.
> 
> _That_ is, I think, what people are getting at. This isn't about comparing women to men, or wives to their husbands...


Like it or not perception can matter. I get not caring what others think ... to a point. But I would be very upset if my wife gave the impression she was screwing around even if she was not. And vice versa. I am funny that way. I have very much loosened up this past year. That was on purpose. But I love my wife.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Entropy3000 said:


> But there are a lot of shades of gray when dealing with real people.


And then there's best practise, that can increase the odds of having a successful marriage.


----------



## diwali123

*A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night*



Faithful Wife said:


> Ah yes Hedonism....where you can have a 4 way with your grandparents.


Where they put penicillin in the drinking water.


----------



## Entropy3000

Caribbean Man said:


> And then there's best practise, that can increase the odds of having a successful marriage.


Yes. Thank you for bringing things back to the basics.


----------



## I Notice The Details

Wow, 24 pages of twerking!!!!!!!!


----------



## Caribbean Man

*Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night*



committed4ever said:


> Oh that wasn't a joke. I've seen a picture of CM and his wife and he really is HOT!


Thanks >> _insert warm Caribbean smile here_<< for your kind words dear . May I ask how long is it before we get a full pic of Mr C4E , Mrs C4E and baby C4E?


----------



## Caribbean Man

Created2Write said:


> For REALZ!!


Yeah,you look pretty smokin' in your avatar too,
Jus sayin'.

I think chicks who know their way around firearms and stick shift cars are _hot!_
Have you ever handled a rifle, AR 10 or 15?


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

always_alone said:


> If all people are this way, why are we all of a sudden disturbed by these ones?


'Cause she gonna R-U-N-N-O-F-T and they skeered.  

I kid. I kid.


----------



## Entropy3000

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> 'Cause she gonna R-U-N-N-O-F-T and they skeered.
> 
> I kid. I kid.


Oh Brother Where Art Thou - Mrs. Hogwallup done R-U-N-N-O-F-T - YouTube


----------



## Entropy3000

I like this clip better and these are like those seductive ladies at the bar.

The Sirens - O Brother, Where Art Thou? (5/10) Movie CLIP (2000) HD - YouTube

Yes. This is how it is.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Entropy3000 said:


> Yes. This is how it is.


Gotta admit, its true.


----------



## Caribbean Man

*Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Nig*



Lon said:


> I have a friend that has been there a few times, I saw a coupe pics lol.


Well you're single now Lon.
This might be the best time to try it!

It's *clothing optional.*


----------



## diwali123

*A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night*

It's a lot of couples with open marriages hooking up with other people.


----------



## committed4ever

*Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night*



Caribbean Man said:


> Thanks >> _insert warm Caribbean smile here_<< for your kind words dear . May I ask how long is it before we get a full pic of Mr C4E , Mrs C4E and baby C4E?


Baby C4E will be here in about a month but I doubt I will post her pic. Mr. C4E not big on that in fact paranoid so I don't force the issue; He really do think that there are absolutely no pic of him on the internet whatsoever. He have seen my avatar but my avatar pic don't really look like me so he didn't care. Here front view of what I really look like on my profile pic but I'll probably delete before the night is over. But you can see it look like 2 different women even though both were taken at the same time.


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Nig*



Caribbean Man said:


> Well you're single now Lon.
> This might be the best time to try it!
> 
> It's *clothing optional.*


Well I'm not 100% single, but maybe I could convince my gf for a trip (actually she has been she wants to go on vacation somewhere hot with me this winter). Maybe I can even lead her into twerking at the clubs there (if she wasn't healing from a lower back injury I'd be pressing her to already!). As for the clothing optional part though I'd have no trouble convincing her of that


----------



## Created2Write

Caribbean Man said:


> Yeah,you look pretty smokin' in your avatar too,
> Jus sayin'.


*blush*  Thank you.



> I think chicks who know their way around firearms and stick shift cars are _hot!_
> Have you ever handled a rifle, AR 10 or 15?


Oh yeah.... .22's, .22-.250's, .30-06's, 12 gauge shotguns, 20 gauge shotguns, 7.62 AK-47, AR-15's, _and_, most impressively, M-16's. And yes, I fired the 3 round burst, as well. Not to mention plenty of different handguns. 

I love my rifles, shotguns and handguns. And I like my boots, too.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

*Swooon*


----------



## Created2Write

And, like a true rifleman's daughter, I absolutely positively _*love*_ the smell of gun cleaning equipment. Reminds me of my boot camp days, sitting on the deck, taking our M-16's apart and cleaning them as we shouted out USMC knowledge. DH and I have plans to do some shooting this weekend. It should be fun!


----------



## Caribbean Man

Created2Write said:


> *blush*  Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> * 12 gauge shotguns, 20 gauge shotguns,* _and_, most impressively, M-16's. And yes,* I fired the 3 round burst, as well*.


" _La Femme^^^ Nikitta_." 

A 12 gauge is a heavy ass piece of iron , depending on the load. lol, even the ammo is big.
Used it in my early days of hunting birds.
The recoil is powerful, could dislocate your shoulder if don't know how to handle it. I've seen it knock down grown men.
I've never handled a M-16 , we hardly have those here.
But I squeezed off a Galil and the kalashnikov a couple times.

Favourite nines is either Sig Sauer or Taurus.


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## Faithful Wife

Aww....Created! I love that pic of your and your H! You're both just lovely.


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## Created2Write

Caribbean Man said:


> " _La Femme^^^ Nikitta_."






> A 12 gauge is a heavy ass piece of iron , depending on the load. lol, even the ammo is big.
> Used it in my early days of hunting birds.
> The recoil is powerful, could dislocate your shoulder if don't know how to handle it. I've seen it knock down grown men.


Yup. It's huge. I was, actually, in a shotgun shooting contest against a bunch of guys...I was the only woman out of probably 40-50 guys. Some of them had shot before, some of them had never fired a weapon. It was speed shooting at several different courses. I was very good, if I do say so myself, though the most difficult part was that I have short arms, and it could be _so_ hard to reach the pump sometimes. But it was fun, and I did better than I thought I would, and had bruises for weeks after to prove it. 

Put me behind a 20 gauge shotgun...I'm unstoppable. 

At the end we got to fire an AR-15 with a red dot sight and, oh man, was that a blast! Loved it. 



> I've never handled a M-16 , we hardly have those here.
> But I squeezed off a Galil and the kalashnikov a couple times.
> 
> Favourite nines is either Sig Sauer or Taurus.


Nice! My dad introduced me to firearms through handguns. But I prefer rifles. They're titillating.


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## DvlsAdvc8

CW, did you get to do the night fire in boot camp? Tracers are awesome. STAR WARS!!!


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## Caribbean Man

Created2Write said:


> *Nice! My dad introduced me to firearms through handguns*. But I prefer rifles. They're titillating.


Your husband is indeed a lucky man.
Personally , I find that women who are close to their fathers tend to be more self confident and balanced in their approach to men and relationships.
They love deeply ,probably in an effort to replicate that bond between themselves and their fathers,with their significant other.
Sometimes they can even have a more mature outlook on relationships.
Takes a strong man to love a woman like that. She knows exactly how a real man treats a woman because of her father, and she will not settle for less.

I think both you and your husband are blessed.
Hope you two enjoy the shooting range this weekend.
My guess is that he has a much better shot than you?:rofl:

Errr maybe?


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## Created2Write

Caribbean Man said:


> Your husband is indeed a lucky man.


Thanks! I think he and I are both lucky. 



> Personally , I find that women who are close to their fathers tend to be more self confident and balanced in their approach to men and relationships.
> They love deeply ,probably in an effort to replicate that bond between themselves and their fathers,with their significant other.
> Sometimes they can even have a more mature outlook on relationships.
> Takes a strong man to love a woman like that. She knows exactly how a real man treats a woman because of her father, and she will not settle for less.


This is very true, at least for me. My dad raised me to be strong, and to this day tells me to run hard after life and not let what other people say about me get in the way. Best dad ever. And he loves DH as if he were his own son, which is a rarity...I never thought my dad would approve of a guy this much!



> I think both you and your husband are blessed.
> Hope you two enjoy the shooting range this weekend.
> My guess is that he has a much better shot than you?:rofl:
> 
> Errr maybe?


Ha! He wishes! He gets lucky and out-shoots me sometimes. He still hasn't caught on that I let him beat me most of those times, though.  I am a bit rusty. It rains a lot here, and ammo can be expensive. 

And Dvls, yes we did the night shoot. It was cool, but it was cold and wet, and it took _hours_ for them to let us start, and we only got to fire a few times. I did love all the night things. Night navigation was my favorite though.


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## Deejo

I just tried to twerk in the mirror at the hotel. Looked like I was having a seizure, then I cramped up.

I think dancing is intimate. I dont care if its twerking or the waltz. I dont equate intimate necessarily with sexual, but dance is expressive. Beautiful, sexual, energetic, elegant.

I dont think we can get away with saying it means nothing. It always means something. Just depends upon who is doing the interpreting.


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## diwali123

*A picture of cougars twerking has made me a neanderthal that hates Girl's Night*



Deejo said:


> I just tried to twerk in the mirror at the hotel. Looked like I was having a seizure, then I cramped up.
> 
> I think dancing is intimate. I dont care if its twerking or the waltz. I dont equate intimate necessarily with sexual, but dance is expressive. Beautiful, sexual, energetic, elegant.
> 
> I dont think we can get away with saying it means nothing. It always means something. Just depends upon who is doing the interpreting.


I think we all learned that lesson from Dirty Dancing.


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## ReformedHubby

Well, I've got an update. One of my kids had an event this morning and the husband of one of the ladies was there. We typically chat but not on a deep level or anything like that. Anyways in casual conversation he mentioned that he is looking forward to his mancation with his friends. A golf trip to with his buddies. 

Being curious I inquired further and as it turns out when they first got married his wife was against him taking trips so instead of fighting about it he suggested she take trips of her own. Essentially they made a deal. No, I did not mention the twerking. 

Apparently this works for them and thats great. But, in all honesty its stlll not something I can say that I'd be cool with. But, every marriage is different. 

P.S. Just in case anyone is wondering if he were to post inappropriate pictures I would still feel the same way!


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## Thepoet

AnnieAsh said:


> My mom still gets down on a regular basis. If you ask her what he exercise regimen is she says 2 days a week at the gym, walking 6 days a week and shakin her booty daily!
> 
> Men can sexualize a woman breast feeding. It's just another way to shame women for what they do and blame them for men getting aroused. Oh well. Same ol same ol.
> 
> We all just have to live our lives and try to have fun. If men want to sexualize me, that ain't none of my concern.


What the hell does breastfeeding have to do with twerking?

I'm sorry, it's really a huge stretch to pretend that twerking is not a sexually charged dance. That's like saying thrusting while dancing as a man is not a sexually charged move. You are literally moving your junk up and down super fast as if you were mounted on or by a guy, how the hell is that in any way not sexual? (And this is the exact reason why people think it looks strange when a man twerks)

Just because you are doing it for laughs or whatever, doesn't change the reality.


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## Caribbean Man

@ ReformedHubby,

Something just hit me, so I went to you tube to confirm it.

Apparently ,this " twerking " dance is actually very similar to a dance that was a big hit in nightclubs during the 80's.

Here it is ;

Doin' Da But - Experience Unlimited [ EU ].

See anything familiar?

Ain't nothin' new under the sun bro!


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## ReformedHubby

Caribbean Man said:


> @ ReformedHubby,
> 
> Something just hit me, so I went to you tube to confirm it.
> 
> Apparently ,this " twerking " dance is actually very similar to a dance that was a big hit in nightclubs during the 80's.
> 
> Here it is ;
> 
> Doin' Da But - Experience Unlimited [ EU ].
> 
> See anything familiar?
> 
> Ain't nothin' new under the sun bro!


This song was huge in the states. I also remember my female cousins doing it and we were all just kids. Yep, history just repeats itself. Its really funny to me how every generation really believes that they invented sexy.


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## AnnieAsh

Thepoet said:


> What the hell does breastfeeding have to do with twerking?
> 
> I'm sorry, it's really a huge stretch to pretend that twerking is not a sexually charged dance. That's like saying thrusting while dancing as a man is not a sexually charged move. You are literally moving your junk up and down super fast as if you were mounted on or by a guy, how the hell is that in any way not sexual? (And this is the exact reason why people think it looks strange when a man twerks)
> 
> Just because you are doing it for laughs or whatever, doesn't change the reality.


I think you missed my point but oh well!  My reality and upbringing is different from yours. My culture is different than yours. That's ok.


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## ScubaSteve61

Last night, at football practice, a couple of the 9 year olds were talking about twerking (not that they have any clue what they were talking about).

Thanks, Miley Cyrus, thanks.


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## committed4ever

My baby was twerking _in my tummy!_ I asked my OB "what the hell???". She said don't worry she's just twerking. Probably heard a Miley Cyrus song. 

I said "well she's GROUNDED!!!" Sentence to be served no more than 5 years after delivery.


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## Faithful Wife

That was hysterical committed!


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## WyshIknew

My wife is out on her second gno this month. I don't think she'll be twerking though. 

I don't hate her going out, why should I? Perhaps I'm just lucky? Her gno seem relatively boring occasions (to me)

I've tried twerking and apparently I don't have the arse for it.


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## ScubaSteve61

WyshIknew said:


> I've tried twerking and apparently I don't have the arse for it.


Eat lots of cake and pizza, and sit on it a lot. That'll help!


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## MrK

WyshIknew said:


> My wife is out on her second gno this month. I don't think she'll be twerking though.


What kinds of places does she go? How late does she stay out? Does she tell you all about them when she gets home?


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## I Notice The Details

Deejo said:


> I just tried to twerk in the mirror at the hotel. Looked like I was having a seizure, then I cramped up.


:rofl::rofl:That is just hilarious everytime I read it. Too funny Deejo. If I ever tried twerking, I predict the same results.:rofl:


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## Caribbean Man

scubasteve61 said:


> eat lots of cake and pizza, and sit on it a lot. That'll help!


lmao!!^^


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## Caribbean Man

Twerking is NOT for men.
It's just one of those things ladies have always done in the privacy of their bedrooms in front of the mirror, when no one else is around.

But <---[ _no pun intended_] like everything else on the internet, somebody posted a vid on facebook ,and it went viral.


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## WyshIknew

MrK said:


> What kinds of places does she go? How late does she stay out? Does she tell you all about them when she gets home?


Well this sounds bad but.....

She is going out for an Indian meal with her girl friends from work, then they are going to the flat of one of her young male work colleagues for drinks and a natter. (His flat is above the restaurant.)

It's normally just drinks and a natter, and very rare that it will be later than 11pm or so especially on a work night.

And yea she normally tells me about her night. Previous gno this month was a 'grazing' restaurant/baby shower.

She usually tells me on the way home as I pick her up when she is finished. Tonight she has said not to wait up as her friend will collect her and run her home.


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## committed4ever

ScubaSteve61 said:


> Eat lots of cake and pizza, and sit on it a lot. That'll help!


No you can't sit on it. It will get too flat and boxy.


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## Created2Write

Well, I went to the Ladie's Night at the adult store...what a let down. I expected it to be exciting, something to stretch me beyond my comfort zone...to be challenged sexually, to leave overwhelmed with desire for my husband because of all the sex talk...

Nope. I was more titillated at the Pure Romance party I had with all of my Christian friends! The Ladies Night was a BORE! I ended up leaving before it was over because it was just too vanilla for me. They had a "seminar", where they discussed sex, but it was just some stuff from some sex therapist from the internet, and it was all very basic, common knowledge. I bought panties, penis shaped candy(hahahahahahahahhahaha! the look on my husband's face!!!!), and some samples of things and went home. 

I was disappointed. But, it was a new experience!


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## P51Geo1980

ReformedHubby said:


> My wife's life is typical suburbia. She has several groups of friends the library mom's, the karate moms, the church mom's, the workout moms etc.. I've gotten to know all of them and to me they all seem as normal as pumpkin pie. Loving responsible wives and mothers. Well one of the groups decided to do a girl's weekend away this weekend, and my opinion has changed a bit.
> 
> After looking at the photos they posted I'm glad my wife didn't go. They were only at their destination for a short time before the ill advised facebook pictures started popping up. My wife showed me a picture with a look of disbelief on her face.
> 
> These moms that I thought were so wholesome were twerking on one another. Also based on the photos they were drinking a lot and it wasn't even late yet. I found it both humorous and disturbing at the same time.
> 
> The more I thought about it though the more I became disturbed by it. If they are grinding on each other now what will they be doing at midnight? Why would they post this pic when they have daughters and husbands at home that would see it? Lastly, they are too damn old to be twerking!
> 
> Perhaps my thoughts on this are over the top but if my wife posted pics like that I would throw the kids in the minivan and tell them we are going to go get mommy. Sometimes people need to be saved from themselves.
> 
> Yes, I know it was just a picture, but to me it showed that some of these neanderthals around here might have a point. There very well might be something to this whole group think thing they were ranting about. I can't imagine that any of these women individually would think what they were doing was a good idea. They didn't even have good enough judgement to realize that posting the pics was a bad idea. I can only imagine how freaked out their husbands were by the pics.
> 
> So my question is, is my reaction just TAM induced paranoia or do I have a point? I will add that my wife after seeing the photos feels like she really didn't know them as well as she thought she did. But, perhaps she is being too judgmental to.


If I saw a picture of my wife doing this I'd be somewhat conflicted. On the one hand I'd be upset because she's never shown her wild side to me in anyway shape or form (does she even have one?!?) but on the other hand I'd know she's not the extreme introvert she is.


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## Faithful Wife

Created...what a let down! I was hoping for a fun story out of you.


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## Moulin

There are definitely different types of GNO's. Mine includes dinner with my friends and a drink or two, then normally home by 10. I'm always reachable via cell if he needs and let him know where we are going. 

I'm not a 20-something year old single looking for a hookup - no need to stay out all night.


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## Created2Write

I know. I was very disappointed. I wanted to have something exciting to share...


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## ReformedHubby

Well, apparently there is hope for the up and coming generation of twerkers. After seeing Miley Cyrus twerk I had lost hope, but my wife was watching something and it showed Vanessa Hudgens (yet another former Disney star) twerking. I have to admit she really had it down. Good for her!!!! To quote the old pervs around my way "Its got to be jelly because jam don't shake like that".


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## Dad&Hubby

Moulin said:


> There are definitely different types of GNO's. Mine includes dinner with my friends and a drink or two, then normally home by 10. I'm always reachable via cell if he needs and let him know where we are going.
> 
> I'm not a 20-something year old single looking for a hookup - no need to stay out all night.


Sounds like my wife, if you throw in a little shopping, although 10pm might be late for her.

We've come to term her time out with her friends as more of a "Girls-Late Morning, Early Afternoon Out". But GLMEAO just doesn't flow like GNO


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## Caribbean Man

Moulin said:


> There are definitely different types of GNO's.


:iagree:

GNO's for my wife usually include restaurants , especially if they are new and " trendy", music festivals , plays, film festivals and so on.

Time is not an issue for me though, we don't have a curfew as such. My issues are security , and exactly who's going. She knows that I don't like the toxic types.

She not the clubbing type .

However most of her GNO stuff is actually stuff the we both do together anyway. Nothing that she would be ashamed of if I was around.


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## Cosmos

Guinness Twerk Record:- Yahoo News UK & Ireland - Latest World News & UK News Headlines

There's even what looks like a 90 year old twerker in there...


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## Entropy3000

WyshIknew said:


> Well this sounds bad but.....
> 
> She is going out for an Indian meal with her girl friends from work, *then they are going to the flat of one of her young male work colleagues for drinks and a natter. (His flat is above the restaurant.)*
> 
> It's normally just drinks and a natter, and very rare that it will be later than 11pm or so especially on a work night.
> 
> And yea she normally tells me about her night. Previous gno this month was a 'grazing' restaurant/baby shower.
> 
> She usually tells me on the way home as I pick her up when she is finished. *Tonight she has said not to wait up as her friend will collect her and run her home*.


:rofl:


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## MrK

Entropy3000 said:


> :rofl:


I'm not sure what you're implying, E3K...

GNO's, and the husbands that allow them. The gift that keeps on giving, eh gals?


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## ConanHub

ReformedHubby said:


> As a responsible TAM poster I am simply trying to provide a public service. Twerking can be dangerous and not just in a sexual way. Just go to this YouTube video and see for yourself. The first segment doesn't demonstrate it, but after watching this entire two minute video the dangers should be apparent. Please be safe ladies.
> 
> When Twerking Goes Wrong - YouTube


Hahahaha!!!! Thanks for starting this thread! It is lighthearted, for me at least, and that video was hilarious! I agree with your original post about moms and wives away from family and posting on FB. I think it is fun and hot, sometimes, at a family /friend party when the older women show their stuff. Recently, my mother in law turned 80 and my wife and I went to a huge party with lots of family and friends to celebrate. My wife has a zillion sisters and nieces age range from early twenties to mid sixties. My wife several of her sisters and a niece or two, all started dancing for everyones benefit. Nothing too nasty, but definitely a little suggestive. All I have to say is WOW!!! Had not seen my wife dance like that for 20 years and her comfort level with her sisters made all of them look great together! Anyway, it was the right setting. If I saw her on FB at a GNO doing it, there would be a little hell to pay and some damage control would have to be done. Take care RH.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Caribbean Man

ConanHub said:


> All I have to say is WOW!!! Had not seen my wife dance like that for 20 years *and her comfort level with her sisters made all of them look great together! Anyway, it was the right setting. * If I saw her on FB at a GNO doing it, there would be a little hell to pay and some damage control would have to be done. Take care RH.


That's the fun part about it and yes,
Environment is also very important.


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## remorseful strayer

Reformed hubby:

I have come to believe that boy's and girl's night out (or the married single lifestyle) is the death knell of marriages and inevitably leads to an affair or a series of one nighters. 

It used to be believed that giving each other freedom was a good thing. However society has changed and affairs are almost considered trendy and acceptable and that is why these solo outings are NOT a good idea, IMO.


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## ReformedHubby

remorseful strayer said:


> Reformed hubby:
> 
> I have come to believe that boy's and girl's night out (or the married single lifestyle) is the death knell of marriages and inevitably leads to an affair or a series of one nighters.
> 
> It used to be believed that giving each other freedom was a good thing. However society has changed and affairs are almost considered trendy and acceptable and that is why these solo outings are NOT a good idea, IMO.


Thanks for the reply. Although my intent was to start a thread that was fun whilst also facilitating good discussion. I'll admit that times have changed, and that even though I'm relatively young my values make me feel so old fashioned at times. 

True story. On occasion I'll go to lunch with my neighbor when I work from home. I texted him last week. He replied that he wasn't at home, but I should ask his wife instead. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot (WTF). No point in even trying to explain to him why I thought the suggestion was weird.


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## ExiledBayStater

I saw the first five words of the topic and clicked expecting to see gyrating cats.


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