# Help with Insecure Husband....



## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

I'm desperate for some advice on how to handle your husband if he is insecure and controlling? I love him very much and am not looking for "you need to leave him". We have been together for ten years and have two small children. I know that we could be a happy couple....most aspects of our life are great, but I can't handle the insecurity anymore. 

Anyone have any helpful advice on how to show him I love him and respect his feelings, but that I can't put up with the accusations and insecurity anymore?

I have never cheated on him, never even flirted with another man.... That is not who I am or ever will be. But he is constantly accusing me of cheating on him, or that I am going to cheat on him...... This has been off and on throughout our ten year marriage. There has been times that it gets better, right now we are going through the worst insecurities of our entire marriage. 

For example, this morning he asked me "did you shave last night?" I answered no..... He replied "well I put the razor here and now it is there, so you must have shaved" We went back and forth a few times, then I stuck my leg up to him and told him to feel my legs if he needed proof. He of course would not (he never wants to have proof that I am telling the truth, would rather just believe his thoughts are real). Then while we were talking on the phone on the way to work I told him "I didn't shave but so what if I had.....I am a grown woman and can shave whenever I want to". I guess this really did not sit well with him, so now he won't communicate via text or anything. (something we typically do throughout the day). His one reply to an email I sent was "you're a grown woman".

In case you are wondering "why does he care if she shaves"....I'm sure he was thinking "she must have shaved last night so someone could touch her". This is the way he thinks....in fact it has gotten so bad that he makes me feel guilty if I take a shower. Like I am doing it to get clean for someone! So now I don't dare take a shower two nights in a row. I always skip a day. I know this is ridiculous and that it is enabling him, but I am so tired of the fighting and sometimes it is just easier to do things like skipping a day than facing "who are you getting clean for".

He is a great Dad and can be a great husband but all the questioning, control, and insecurity is ruining what we could have. Please help!!!


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

He puts his emotional weight entirely on you... and you are reaching your limit of how much you can carry. You are starting to break under the weight of it, which is NOT your fault since HE should not be leaning on you this heavily and chronically.

You were not designed to carry his weight AND yours. 

You have every right to ask him to carry his own emotional weight. 

You convincing him that you love him is not what fixes this unfortunately.

the fix to this is MUCH harder... IF it is fixable.

Boundary work is a must... many resources I can share if you want me to. 

Just be fair warned... violence can erupt when a person like your husband begins to fear he is losing control of you.

The first boundary I would place with him is telling him that it is no longer ok to punish you with the silent treatment. If he cannot refrain from using that tactic then (consequence.) He uses his emotions like a weapon and you are waking up to the idea that it is not ok anymore. Good for you! Just be super careful, get educated, surround yourself with strong support. You are going to need it.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Brit16 said:


> I'm desperate for some advice on how to handle your husband if he is insecure and controlling? I love him very much and am not looking for "you need to leave him". We have been together for ten years and have two small children. I know that we could be a happy couple....most aspects of our life are great, but I can't handle the insecurity anymore.
> 
> Anyone have any helpful advice on how to show him I love him and respect his feelings, but that I can't put up with the accusations and insecurity anymore?
> 
> ...


Don't do this. "We are not having this discussion. I have given you no reason to mistrust me. Period."



> then I stuck my leg up to him and told him to feel my legs if he needed proof. He of course would not (he never wants to have proof that I am telling the truth, would rather just believe his thoughts are real). Then while we were talking on the phone on the way to work I told him "I didn't shave but so what if I had.....I am a grown woman and can shave whenever I want to". I guess this really did not sit well with him, so now he won't communicate via text or anything. (something we typically do throughout the day). His one reply to an email I sent was "you're a grown woman".
> 
> In case you are wondering "why does he care if she shaves"....I'm sure he was thinking "she must have shaved last night so someone could touch her". This is the way he thinks....in fact it has gotten so bad that he makes me feel guilty if I take a shower. Like I am doing it to get clean for someone! So now I don't dare take a shower two nights in a row. I always skip a day. I know this is ridiculous and that it is enabling him, but I am so tired of the fighting and sometimes it is just easier to do things like skipping a day than facing "who are you getting clean for".
> 
> He is a great Dad and can be a great husband but all the questioning, control, and insecurity is ruining what we could have. Please help!!!


HE needs help. You do NOT appease him. It does not help. When he has these fits, do not engage. Simply tell him that if he would like to seek counseling for his insecurity that you will support him 100%. You will no longer be defensive as you have nothing to defend. Period.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

I'm not understanding how you can have a healthy marriage if you have taken off the table that you will ever leave. If so, what is his incentive to change the current arrangement? You are in a sense, his slave, and because of your commitment to eternally be in this position, you are accepting the shackles.

At the point where you decided that your life is valued enough to demand a certain level of respect and action, then it will be his responsibility to meet that level or suffer the consequences.

You can't change your husband, you can only change yourself. That means you can only change how you view yourself, your boundaries, the treatment that you are willing to accept.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

NobodySpecial said:


> Don't do this. "We are not having this discussion. I have given you no reason to mistrust me. Period."
> 
> 
> 
> HE needs help. You do NOT appease him. It does not help. When he has these fits, do not engage. Simply tell him that if he would like to seek counseling for his insecurity that you will support him 100%. You will no longer be defensive as you have nothing to defend. Period.


:iagree:

There isn't ANYTHING you can do. This is HIS issue and HE needs to be willing to do something to deal with it. Nothing you do will manage to make any difference.

If people have advised you to leave him, it's because that might shake him up enough to realize he needs to get some help or lose his marriage. And if it doesn't, you're better off not living this way every day.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> Don't do this. "We are not having this discussion. I have given you no reason to mistrust me. Period."
> 
> 
> 
> HE needs help. You do NOT appease him. It does not help. When he has these fits, do not engage. Simply tell him that if he would like to seek counseling for his insecurity that you will support him 100%. You will no longer be defensive as you have nothing to defend. Period.



LOVE this response!!


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## Eagle3 (Dec 4, 2013)

Turn the tables around to prove your point. When he gets out of the shower ask him why is he taking one and who for? Move his razor to a different spot and next day say did you shave? I moved your razor and its now over here in a new spot.

If he responds that that these accusations have no basis on his actions and there is nothing going on, kindly tell him same with you. Make him see how this is total nonsense and it needs to end now. 

Going off this post there does not seem to be any reason you are being treated this way and you say he is great in other ways so I find this behavior odd. I know you requested no mentions of leaving him etc so i will respect your wishes but I dont know how you do it. Not showering when you want to just to avoid a fight?

My only other thought would be do you think _he_ could be messing around? I am just saying sometimes people act out on a betrayed spouse like this to ease their own guilt. I hope not for your sake but do hope things get better for you. Good luck.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> Don't do this. "We are not having this discussion. I have given you no reason to mistrust me. Period."
> 
> 
> 
> HE needs help. You do NOT appease him. It does not help. When he has these fits, do not engage. Simply tell him that if he would like to seek counseling for his insecurity that you will support him 100%. You will no longer be defensive as you have nothing to defend. Period.


Thank you - this is what I am looking for - how to handle him during these things. I know what I am doing is not working and I know that I am only making it worse when I "walk on eggshells". But at the same time I don't know the right way to handle it.

I have reacted similarly to this in the past and when I do he told me that I was being arrogant and ****y. I tried to explain that I was not trying to be ****y I just couldn't handle it anymore. 


I have tried to get him to go to counseling, but since the issue has gotten "better" (it has improved in the last couple months-but is no where near gone) he doesn't think we need it. Even when he has admitted we might need counseling he says that we "can't afford it". Honestly we can't afford it, but I know we need it......we haven't really even looked into what our insurance would cover or if it would cover......

I don't think he is really a "believer in counseling" so I am not sure how much good it would do for me to drag him in. Wouldn't it be more productive if he initiated it or signed us up? I have told him before that I wanted HIM to find someone and get us signed up. I typically take care of all the family business, paying bills, any calls that need to be made, etc. But I wanted him to do this because I believe that if HE picks the person that he would be more likely to believe what they have to say.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

COguy said:


> I'm not understanding how you can have a healthy marriage if you have taken off the table that you will ever leave. If so, what is his incentive to change the current arrangement? You are in a sense, his slave, and because of your commitment to eternally be in this position, you are accepting the shackles.
> 
> At the point where you decided that your life is valued enough to demand a certain level of respect and action, then it will be his responsibility to meet that level or suffer the consequences.
> 
> You can't change your husband, you can only change yourself. That means you can only change how you view yourself, your boundaries, the treatment that you are willing to accept.


I'm sorry but I don't understand why I should have to threaten to leave just to get him to understand that things need help. If he told me.....I am really concerned about.....I wouldn't need him to threaten to leave to care enough to listen and or get help????


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Google "Out of the Fog" which will describe behaviors he is using that you can single out and say "this behavior is no longer acceptable to me." 

ACOA is a great resource for support

Boundary books especially by Townsend... VERY IMPORTANT

Also... Codependency No More

These are some of the resources will help you build the language give to you by Nobody Special.

His choice of behavior is NOT your fault.

They are 100% his responsibility.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Brit16 said:


> Thank you - this is what I am looking for - how to handle him during these things. I know what I am doing is not working and I know that I am only making it worse when I "walk on eggshells". But at the same time I don't know the right way to handle it.
> 
> I have reacted similarly to this in the past and when I do he told me that I was being arrogant and ****y. I tried to explain that I was not trying to be ****y I just couldn't handle it anymore.


You have chosen to stay with this man. My advise will be aimed at that. Don't explain. Don't defuse. It is not your job to appease him. Simply I am sorry you think I am a (how many asterisks is that?? ) I will be in my room (or where ever else you can get away from him) until you can speak to me in a civil manner. Also I would speak to your therapist (do I remember correctly that you are in counseling as well?) or find books on effective limit setting. You Do Not Own His Behavior.




> I have tried to get him to go to counseling, but since the issue has gotten "better" (it has improved in the last couple months-but is no where near gone) he doesn't think we need it. Even when he has admitted we might need counseling he says that we "can't afford it". Honestly we can't afford it, but I know we need it......we haven't really even looked into what our insurance would cover or if it would cover......


So? Look into it.



> I don't think he is really a "believer in counseling" so I am not sure how much good it would do for me to drag him in. Wouldn't it be more productive if he initiated it or signed us up? I have told him before that I wanted HIM to find someone and get us signed up. I typically take care of all the family business, paying bills, any calls that need to be made, etc. But I wanted him to do this because I believe that if HE picks the person that he would be more likely to believe what they have to say.


No dragging. Stop engaging in his bad behavior. 

Honestly I would not choose to be in a relationship like this. But the ONLY thing that has a hope, small as it is, is to Set Effective Limits so that he knows that he cannot treat you like this.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Blossom Leigh said:


> Google "Out of the Fog" which will describe behaviors he is using that you can single out and say "this behavior is no longer acceptable to me."
> 
> ACOA is a great resource for support
> 
> ...


Oh hey! Resource recommendations on effective limit setting. OutSTANDING.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Brit16 said:


> I'm sorry but I don't understand why I should have to threaten to leave just to get him to understand that things need help. If he told me.....I am really concerned about.....I wouldn't need him to threaten to leave to care enough to listen and or get help????


You will need to be ready to put it on the table.

When my child expressed fear of my husband, I had no choice but to put it on the table and I told him this...

"Your choice of behaviors has created fear of you in both me and our child (voiced directly by him to his father by the way) and I now realize it is beyond my capacity to handle. I am requiring you to seek professional help for your anger. If you do not do this by the first of the year, there will be a separation. And if you continue to refuse to pursue professional help for your anger issues you will be choosing to risk divorce with me."

We are separated...

He is seeking help... he didn't seek it until the separation happened. 

took him four months after the first request to make it happen. 

he was 24 hours from being served divorce papers when I saw the first change and put the papers on hold. 

So sometimes it takes that...


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Eagle3 said:


> Turn the tables around to prove your point. When he gets out of the shower ask him why is he taking one and who for? Move his razor to a different spot and next day say did you shave? I moved your razor and its now over here in a new spot.
> 
> If he responds that that these accusations have no basis on his actions and there is nothing going on, kindly tell him same with you. Make him see how this is total nonsense and it needs to end now.


I don't agree with this. This is tit for tat game playing. Too much engagement. This will escalate.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Brit16 said:


> I'm sorry but I don't understand why I should have to threaten to leave just to get him to understand that things need help. If he told me.....I am really concerned about.....I wouldn't need him to threaten to leave to care enough to listen and or get help????


This is the advice I gave my STBW when it comes to dealing with my ex-wife...

You need to stop thinking about him in the same way you would a normal, well adjusted, reasonable person. Things that apply to normal, reasonable people do not apply to him, and you will drive yourself crazy trying to figure this out by thinking of him in that way.


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## Eagle3 (Dec 4, 2013)

_I don't agree with this. This is tit for tat game playing. Too much engagement. This will escalate. _

I am not trying to tell her to play a game, but trying to make him see what he is doing to her and how wrong it is. He might be someone that has to be shown something to get it. I mean this has been going on since they been married just telling him isnt working.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Eagle3 said:


> _I don't agree with this. This is tit for tat game playing. Too much engagement. This will escalate. _
> 
> I am not trying to tell her to play a game, but trying to make him see what he is doing to her and how wrong it is. He might be someone that has to be shown something to get it. I mean this has been going on since they been married just telling him isnt working.


Good goal. Not effective approach. I believe that would yield more confusion and put flame on an open fire. I think she should ask a therapist, though!


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## Eagle3 (Dec 4, 2013)

_Good goal. Not effective approach. I believe that would yield more confusion and put flame on an open fire. I think she should ask a therapist, though! _

You are right NobodySpecial this might cause more of a problem especially if this has been going on for this long. 

OP sorry I was just trying to give another route for you to try, but I would def take the advice of others and seek a response from a therapist.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

yes, and this can escalate... be prepared to have a safe place to go to.

Domestic Violence Hotline can be found online and can provide resources in your area.


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## BoozeLevers (Apr 7, 2014)

You should get your husband into counseling. It doesn't sound like he's controlling or insecure. It sounds like he's irrationally paranoid. And that's an entirely different ballgame.

Now, none of us are qualified to diagnose your husband's mental state. And, even if we were, we couldn't do it based on a short, second-hand account.

So, take him to see someone. Would it be better if he did it? Sure, but he's not doing it. Will it be expensive? Perhaps, but if you think counseling is expensive, try divorce.

If your husband is paranoid, he's not going to snap out of it on his own. So take the actions that you can take, like scheduling counseling sessions and ensuring he goes. Ultimately, you can't force him to think and behave rationally. But getting him some help might help him resolve his own issues.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

BoozeLevers said:


> You should get your husband into counseling. It doesn't sound like he's controlling or insecure. It sounds like he's irrationally paranoid. And that's an entirely different ballgame.
> 
> Now, none of us are qualified to diagnose your husband's mental state. And, even if we were, we couldn't do it based on a short, second-hand account.
> 
> ...


That's what I was thinking when you wrote about insurance, OP. Look into it at least. You may be pleasantly surprised. I was, when I sought counseling for myself. There was only a co-pay. 

What's your peace of mind worth?


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Brit16 said:


> I'm sorry but I don't understand why I should have to threaten to leave just to get him to understand that things need help. If he told me.....I am really concerned about.....I wouldn't need him to threaten to leave to care enough to listen and or get help????


I didn't say threaten to leave, that would be petty and childish. What you need to do is clearly establish your personal boundaries and the behavior that you will accept and not accept, and if that is not being attained, you should value yourself enough to not continue to be put in a position to have your boundaries and value compromised.

You are stating what YOU would do if the shoe was on the other foot, but the shoe isn't on the other foot. I'm sure you have communicated to your husband what you desire, and you have not yet seen results.

What I am trying to get you see is that your husband has no real incentive to change. You have said you will not leave, so anything he does will not change the end result.

Example: Say I decide that every time I have to fart, I will pull down my pants, press my butt cheeks against your face, and pass gas. You do not like this behavior, so you tell me to stop. I do it again, and you tell me the same as before. I do it 100 more times and every time you tell me to stop. I decide that since the consequence of me farting in your face is you telling me to stop, that I really have no reason to, since it won't change the end result for me. What reason would I have to stop farting on you?

Now if you said, "Do not fart on me again, I will not tolerate that behavior." And then when I did it again you sent me divorce papers, I'd have to weigh that decision to continue farting on you very seriously. It would cost me the marriage. If at the point you kept threatening but never followed through, the behavior from before would continue with no perceived consequence.

There is really no difference between this and establishing boundaries with children. If your child calls you names, and you tell him to stop, and he does it again and you don't establish consequences, guess who is going to keep calling names? Idle threats work once or twice and then they become the norm. (Ever notice that parents that count 3-2-1 never get action on the 3 or the 2?)

Your job is not to get your husband to stop treating you poorly, you can not affect your husband's actions. Your job is to communicate your boundaries effectively and enforce the consequences of failing to follow them. That could be as little as not cooking dinner for him, or as much as leaving. But understand that if you aren't ready to leave a marriage over a certain treatment, don't be surprised to be dealing with it for the remainder of your marriage.

The real question is, why would you WANT to be in a marriage where you are constantly belittled and accused and have to hide your actions. Sounds like a hellish nightmare to me...You clearly have codependency issues so you may want to check out coda.org and attend a few meetings.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

This really is good advice, but damn it made me laugh, too 



COguy said:


> Example: Say I decide that every time I have to fart, I will pull down my pants, press my butt cheeks against your face, and pass gas. You do not like this behavior, so you tell me to stop. I do it again, and you tell me the same as before. I do it 100 more times and every time you tell me to stop. I decide that since the consequence of me farting in your face is you telling me to stop, that I really have no reason to, since it won't change the end result for me. What reason would I have to stop farting on you?
> 
> Now if you said, "Do not fart on me again, I will not tolerate that behavior." And then when I did it again you sent me divorce papers, I'd have to weigh that decision to continue farting on you very seriously. It would cost me the marriage. If at the point you kept threatening but never followed through, the behavior from before would continue with no perceived consequence.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

:rofl:


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Isn't this kind of insecurity often based on projecting? Do you know FOR SURE what HE's up to when you're not around?


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Isn't this kind of insecurity often based on projecting? Do you know FOR SURE what HE's up to when you're not around?


Yep,

That crossed my mind where I read the part about the razor and him thinking she only shaved her legs when she wants to have an encounter with someone else.

_He_ might very well be cheating.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Isn't this kind of insecurity often based on projecting? Do you know FOR SURE what HE's up to when you're not around?


Yeah this is way over the top behavior. If he was like this prior to marriage you should have never ever married him If this is recent then something like projecting his cheating could be a real possibility. Maybe start snooping


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Your husband needs counselling now. If he won't do it, you should tell him in no uncertain terms that you cannot stay married to him while he behaves this way, nor will you allow your children to grow up in a home like that.

Do you think about the example you're setting for your children? That's it ok for women to be treated this way by their husbands? Because that's the message they're getting, every day that you allow yourself to be treated this way.

Be aware that when men like this feel they're losing control of "their woman" that things can escalate very quickly and lead to domestic violence.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Brit16,

Inform your husband that trust is vital for a healthy relationship. He needs to address his insecurities himself and you can only do so much in this respect.

Request him to read some books about relationships. His Needs, Her Needs would be a good start.

If he doesn't takes your request seriously then you need to pressure him to seek MC.



Blossom Leigh said:


> You will need to be ready to put it on the table.
> 
> When my child expressed fear of my husband, I had no choice but to put it on the table and I told him this...
> 
> ...


Your analogy is a bit extreme, your history is much worse then what you have disclosed here and that entire history likely motivated you to take such a drastic step.

To be honest, children should fear their father to some extent. Children should know that their father loves them but he wouldn't hesitate to punish them for bad behavior and mischief. This kind of dynamic is necessary and constructive for the (disciplined) upbringing of children, IMO.

If a child expresses fear of his father to his mother, this isn't much of a big deal unless the father is being abusive and have a history of hurting the child. Wife should intervene only in this kind of scenario.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

He pulled a knife to express his emotions in front of our child... is that extreme enough?

so yes, it was extreme enough for me to take that step


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Blossom Leigh said:


> He pulled a knife to express his emotions in front of our child... is that extreme enough?
> 
> so yes, it was extreme enough for me to take that step


Yes, this is a bit extreme on his part. I am not questioning your method for addressing the issue on your end (you made a wise move to address such kind of problem in your family), as I already mentioned that your history is much worse then what you disclosed in your analogy in this thread; your relationship with your husband had also been fractured due to additional reasons prior to this event. So all of these developments led you to take such a drastic step against your husband to send him a message to behave.

However, my response to you is relevant in the context of what you quoted before in this thread. Your situation was much worse but you presented an analogy which didn't give such a vibe and your reaction seemed extreme in that context only. 

I hope you get it since my English is poor.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Sure... I can see where there would seem to be a disconnect. In all controlling relationships there is risk of escalation and my comment to her was to be prepared to put it on the table if he took it to that level of escalation. Apologies if that wasn't clear, y'all.


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## lonelyhusband321 (Feb 18, 2014)

COguy said:


> You can't change your husband, you can only change yourself. That means you can only change how you view yourself, your boundaries, the treatment that you are willing to accept.


This is SO spot on.

IF you do everything that you possibly can, but he still doesn't trust you implicitly, you two have a problem. I'm talking the kind of trust that basically puts your heart in their hand and gives them a knife, trusting them NOT to stab you.

Sometimes that trust gets betrayed, because some people are betrayers but I absolutely believe that is the MOST essential ingredient to a good marriage.

Open and honest communications between the two of you (complete with boundaries and limitations of what will be tolerated) is the only way that that trust can develop!

Best to you BOTH.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

Thank all of you for the responses. I had not had a chance to get on a reply. We are having a horrible day today.....fighting about everything, not even related to the insecurity. I want to respond to everyone but there has been so many comments since I was able to reply. 



BoozeLevers said:


> You should get your husband into counseling. It doesn't sound like he's controlling or insecure. It sounds like he's *irrationally paranoid*. And that's an entirely different ballgame.
> 
> Now, none of us are qualified to diagnose your husband's mental state. And, even if we were, we couldn't do it based on a short, second-hand account.
> 
> ...


I do want us both to get into counseling, but he has to be willing. Right now I really don't think he believes he has a problem. 

What do you mean by "irrationally paranoid"? I told him once before that I was concerned that he had paranoid personality disorder and I even sent him a couple of articles. He read them and of course dismissed it....said he only sees a couple of the signs in himself.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

COguy said:


> I didn't say threaten to leave, that would be petty and childish. What you need to do is clearly establish your personal boundaries and the behavior that you will accept and not accept, and if that is not being attained, you should value yourself enough to not continue to be put in a position to have your boundaries and value compromised.
> 
> You are stating what YOU would do if the shoe was on the other foot, but the shoe isn't on the other foot. I'm sure you have communicated to your husband what you desire, and you have not yet seen results.
> 
> ...


Thanks you for this.....I totally understand what you are saying. I guess wanting a happy marriage with him would be enough motivation for me. But I have told him before that he seems to think he can do whatever he wants because he knows I won't leave. He says "I don't know you wouldn't leave".

It can be a hellish nightmare, you are right, but we have great times together too when he is not feeling this way. And we have two little boys. I know that we could be a happy family if he somehow realized he could trust me and let us really "live". But I don't know how to get to what we "could" be?


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> Brit16,
> 
> Inform your husband that trust is vital for a healthy relationship. He needs to address his insecurities himself and you can only do so much in this respect.
> 
> ...


Thanks....I have read the book "his needs her needs", great book by the way! I felt like he was taking it right out of my head. I couldn't get him to read the entire book (he doesn't have much time even if he wanted to), but I did get him to read the summary part in the back and do the "needs survey" with me. It was very helpful to both of us, but of course it couldn't cure his insecurity.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> Yeah this is way over the top behavior. If he was like this prior to marriage you should have never ever married him If this is recent then something like projecting his cheating could be a real possibility. Maybe start snooping


For all of you suggesting cheating that honestly is not the issue. I don't doubt at all that he is faithful to me. And yes he was like this before marriage, but of course it has escalated through out the years. 

A large part of our "dating" we were long distance. When he would act like that I honestly thought it was only because we were long distance. And was convinced that when we got married and were living together, in the same town, that most of those issues would naturally go away. But I think it was much bigger than I realized way back then.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Brit16 said:


> It can be a hellish nightmare, you are right, but *we have great times together too when he is not feeling this way*. And we have two little boys. I know that we could be a happy family if he somehow realized he could trust me and let us really "live". But I don't know how to get to what we "could" be?


How often is it that your H isn't feeling insecure and paranoid? 

You can't live your whole life for what "could be." Do that, and you'll wake up one day and realize your whole life passed you by while waiting for something good that never happened, and you were miserable in the meantime.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

norajane said:


> How often is it that your H isn't feeling insecure and paranoid?
> 
> You can't live your whole life for what "could be." Do that, and you'll wake up one day and realize your whole life passed you by while waiting for something good that never happened, and you were miserable in the meantime.


I'm not sure how often I would say it is because it is not consistent. We might go a day or two with no issues or we might go a week. We have been facing the hardest time ever this past 6 months because he believes I lied to him, which made things escalate out of control. I am not a liar, never lie to him, but I was afraid to talk to him, because I knew how he would respond. I did not cheat or anything like that....To make a long story short....I found out I was going to have a male co-worker that I would be having to work with a lot, and I didn't tell him right away. When he asked "who did they hire..." I was completely honest with him and things spiraled out of control quickly. He was convinced that I didn't bring it up because I was cheating with him or wanted to cheat with him or who knows why. The ONLY reason I hadn't brought it up is because I KNEW he would not trust me and I was afraid of the argument that was sure to happen. 

Little did I know it would be much more than just an argument, but it would mean his insecurities spiraling out of control and our marriage going through the biggest hell ever. Now he blames everything on this one incident, but what he fails to see is that it has always been this way, this just made it worse.

There was a point in the last few months where it was every day basically all day long. But we are past that point, thank goodness. I guess right now I would say we have a big ordeal once every few days. But we have been having some longer stretches in between as well.


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## sunvalley (Dec 4, 2011)

COguy said:


> Example: Say I decide that every time I have to fart, I will pull down my pants, press my butt cheeks against your face, and pass gas. You do not like this behavior, so you tell me to stop. I do it again, and you tell me the same as before. I do it 100 more times and every time you tell me to stop. I decide that since the consequence of me farting in your face is you telling me to stop, that I really have no reason to, since it won't change the end result for me. What reason would I have to stop farting on you?
> 
> Now if you said, "Do not fart on me again, I will not tolerate that behavior." And then when I did it again you sent me divorce papers, I'd have to weigh that decision to continue farting on you very seriously. It would cost me the marriage.


:rofl::rofl: COguy, what a hilarious, memorable example!!! Thanks!!!! (Yes, I know you were being serious .... but what a way to put it!!)


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## sunvalley (Dec 4, 2011)

Brit16 said:


> For all of you suggesting cheating that honestly is not the issue. I don't doubt at all that he is faithful to me. And yes he was like this before marriage, but of course it has escalated through out the years.
> 
> A large part of our "dating" we were long distance. When he would act like that I honestly thought it was only because we were long distance. And was convinced that when we got married and were living together, in the same town, that most of those issues would naturally go away. But I think it was much bigger than I realized way back then.


Brit16, if he was like this before you married, things will not change unless *HE* decides to change it. Right now, he has no desire or incentive to do that. Has he ever explained, to your satisfaction, WHY he's thinking and acting this way?

I also have to ask you (and, in my opinion, you need to ask yourself, preferably with a good counselor): What are YOU getting out of this relationship, that you refuse to even consider leaving? Do you love the drama (deep down inside, where you can barely admit it)? Do you feel that "the more you suffer, the more it shows you really care"? Are you worried what friends/family will think? Do you feel you can't make it on your own? Do you believe that if you just repeat yourself enough times, he'll get the message that he has absolutely nothing to worry about as far as your love and fidelity? 

Here's the main thing. If he's throwing fits simply because you're *working* with a man, he has a lot more issues than insecurity or paranoia. Sounds to me like he has fundamental trust issues. If so, he must solve them or your marriage WILL crumble at some point. And it won't be because of you.

I know these are painful things to consider, but a lifetime of this behavior will eventually break you down and scar your children forever. I don't know if you're religious, but to paraphrase the Bible, love does not tear down, is unselfish and doesn't keep score. It's also NOT unkind. Your husband's behavior is unkind, selfish and VERY destructive — and for some reason, he's either not willing to or can't see it. TWO people are required to make a marriage work. If he's not willing to at least attend some counseling, then you need to take a long, hard look at the situation and decide if this is what you want for the rest of your life.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Brit, 

I went back and re-read your other thread. It looks like nothing has changed since then.

Your husband is insane. Some highlights from your other thread:


You had to quit your coaching job because one of the coaches was a man.

You said: "_I can't even go in a store to look around unless the kids are with me..... can't do ANYTHING unless the kids are with me. It leaves him being suspicious_".

When you two were shopping for clothes, and he couldn't find you for a few minutes, he was angry because he thought you were screwing someone in the dressing room!!!

I think if I treated my wife like this, then eventually she would cheat on me, thinking that if I'm going to constantly accuse her anyway no matter what, then she might as well do the crime! What would she have to lose?

Your username is "Brit"... is your husband Muslim, by any chance? I remember reading an article about Muslim women living in Britian, some said their husbands were so insanely jealous that they could not even look out the window of their house, because their husbands accused them of waving to their lover in the street outside! That sounds similar to your situation. 

If he's not Muslim, then you could have a little fun with him the next time he complains about you wearing sexy clothes, put on a full-body burqa that covers your face as well. Ask him, would he prefer that??

If he had actually caught you cheating before, then I could understand his attitude a little better. But even then, his behavior would *STILL* be over the top. Feeling guilty about taking a shower? Really??

Let's look at these facts:


He's so paranoid that it's destroying your marriage
He won't change
He won't take counseling seriously
You don't want to divorce him

Then my suggestion is to move out. NOW. Find an apartment of your own, or move in with your family. That doesn't mean you are getting a divorce. But just tell him that his behavior is so bad you can't live in the same place with him until he changes. As multiple people have pointed out in this thread, he has no reason to change if there are no consequences for his behavior. Tell him that he can choose how he fixes it, you don't care how. He can read a book, go to a counselor, seek religious advice, or find another way on his own. But before you live in the same house with him again, he would have to agree to some rules, such as:


No more making you walk on eggshells, 
No more pressuring you to quit coaching jobs, 
No more making you feel guilty for shaving/showering,
Above all: NO MORE ACCUSATIONS OF CHEATING WITHOUT PROOF!


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Theseus said:


> Brit,
> 
> I went back and re-read your other thread. It looks like nothing has changed since then.
> 
> ...


Great advice!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WalterWhite (Sep 14, 2012)

To the original poster, the advise to tell your husband to seek counseling because he has a problem is the absolute worse advice one can get!

This is not his problem. This problem belongs to the both of you, so the best advise is for both of you to go to counseling together. Let the therapist single him out as the problem source.

Filter out the psycho babble that this thread is filled to the brim with.

Remember you are more than friends. You two are married so attack this problem as a team.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Brit16 said:


> I love him very much and am not looking for "you need to leave him".


This jumped out at me from the original post.

This is HEART thinking, not brain thinking.

OP, I'm sorry to tell you this but YOU are the reason why he continues to be the way he is. By being with this man all these years you enabled him to flourish in that respect.

YOU ENABLED HIM

What I would recommend is REALLY concentrating on YOURSELF. How did you accept this man and WHY did you decide to put up with it all these years.

And the reason why I quote above, is most likely the conclusion you will reach (if you are willing to think with your brain of course).

You see, we all fall in love with people and have strong feelings for them. As we get to know the person we start noticing RED FLAGS. Our heart (lot of times) overwrites our brains and these red flags.

This is exactly what happened to you.

What you should've done (way back when you first noticed this behavior) is nip it in the bud and DEAL with it.

Unfortunately you choose to ignore it and just put up with it.

I'm sorry to tell you this but unless you are willing to put EVERYTHING on the line and completely ignore what's quoted above, I can't really help you with ANYTHING. 

And that's because you are not willing to HELP YOURSELF.

This entire situation needs to be resolved with YOU first, and then with your husband. 

I can go on with advice, but I don't want to feel like I'm wasting my time until you reassure me that it's a worthy cause.

:scratchhead:


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

I don't even know where to start.... i posted on here a couple years ago when we were going through a really rocky time and I was finally realizing how out of control his behavior was (i always knew, but i think i wanted to "save us" so bad i denied it). 

Not sure if any of the original responders to the thread are even around anymore, but for some reason i wanted to go back and read what i had written on here. It makes me sick to my stomach to hear my replies to y'all and how much i was still trying to appease him, even while seeking advice. All of your advice was so correct and everything is all playing out now. 

We have been separated for 2 months now. I had finally got to the point where I couldn't take it anymore. And honestly, the biggest part was finally telling my family how abusive he has been all through the years. I guess the thing that finally pushed me to separation was him destroying my phone, after i threatened to call the cops. 

I really thought a separation would wake him up, but honestly, he has shown efforts to try to change, but is not changing. After a few days of being better he will do something completely out of line. 

I don't know what i am looking for, just wanted to thank y'all for listening back then, and i wish I wouldn't have been so brainwashed to be able to really hear what y'all were trying to help me see.....


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Brit16 said:


> I don't even know where to start.... i posted on here a couple years ago when we were going through a really rocky time and I was finally realizing how out of control his behavior was (i always knew, but i think i wanted to "save us" so bad i denied it).
> 
> Not sure if any of the original responders to the thread are even around anymore, but for some reason i wanted to go back and read what i had written on here. It makes me sick to my stomach to hear my replies to y'all and how much i was still trying to appease him, even while seeking advice. All of your advice was so correct and everything is all playing out now.
> 
> ...


You ever figure out what is driving him to be so insecure? Family background? Cheated on before?

There's been a few of these kinds of threads on TAM lately.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

NobodySpecial said:


> "We are not having this discussion. I have given you no reason to mistrust me. Period."


I agree with this in principle. Firmness is required, however, what is missing is love.

"I love you, but we are not having this discussion. I have given you no reason to mistrust me. Period."

Telling him you love him, which you do or you wouldn't be here, reinforces what he wants to hear, and the rest of the message sets boundaries. You need BOTH.

Good luck.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

No, i honesty still don't know the reason behind his paranoid thinking and rediculous reactions to me. I really believe something is "wrong" like a personality disorder of some sort. He was cheated on before, but he has always said he didn't really care about the girl, and doesn't contribute to his thoughts (not sure if thats true or not). He also grew up with a very demanding, critical mother, who taught him to be extremely selfish. Anything they wanted they got, they were taught that they should only wear certain clothing, etc. Really completely opposite of how i was raised, although it was a 2 parent home.... 

As for the communication tips, i don't believe I really need those anymore. We are not under the same roof anymore, thank God. He has made it very clear that it is not safe to be with him, or even around him anymore than i have to be. 

At the beginning of our separation we were still interacting quite a bit over the phone, but after he pulled his last incident, i pretty much quit commumicating with him. The stress i feel even over a simple conversation with him is too much at this point. 

Would it be best to start another thread, or just keep writing on here? 

As for the latest incident....he wanted me to talk to him, we were at school (we work at the same campus now, unfortunately), i told him "i will answer your question later, when i am not so upset with you" and i tried to walk off. He proceeded to follow me, and tell me that he wouldn't leave me alone. I asked him numerous times to "please go away, please leave me alone" and he refused. He was literally following me around and around the school, so close to my herls i truly felt threatened. 

When he saw me head toward the bathroom he said "i will follow you into the bathroom too". I couldn't believe he was behaving so insane in the middle of our workplace. Eventually we got close to a teachers restroom (its a one stall that locks automatically when you shut the door). I tried to go in there and he started to follow me, i pushed him out of the doorway and shut it as fast as i could. I had c to escape into a bathroom to get away from my own husband!! Nobody should be treated like this from someone that claims they love them. As i was sobbing in the bathroom, he stood outside and said "look who's pushing now, you're the one becomming abusive now, you're the one having the outburst..."

I am an abuser because i was so desperate that i had to push him away from me to be able to escape??! 

At this point i don't think the marriage can, or even should be saved. I think my only hesitation is the kids. I keep thinking what if you could change??? Oh by the way, he is talking to a counselor weekly now, and some of the time it seems to be helping, but then he goes right back and does stuff like i just described.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Brit16 said:


> No, i honesty still don't know the reason behind his paranoid thinking and rediculous reactions to me. I really believe something is "wrong" like a personality disorder of some sort. He was cheated on before, but he has always said he didn't really care about the girl, and doesn't contribute to his thoughts (not sure if thats true or not). He also grew up with a very demanding, critical mother, who taught him to be extremely selfish. Anything they wanted they got, they were taught that they should only wear certain clothing, etc. Really completely opposite of how i was raised, although it was a 2 parent home....
> 
> As for the communication tips, i don't believe I really need those anymore. We are not under the same roof anymore, thank God. He has made it very clear that it is not safe to be with him, or even around him anymore than i have to be.
> 
> ...


He's obviously not changing, and your thoughts SHOULD be about the kids...but not thoughts of hesitation, rather how fast you can get away. Staying is far less healthy than a divorce.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

I know I need to leave, i guess the only reason i am not sprinting to the finish line, is i feel unprepared. And since i am no longer under the same roof right now, i feel like i am safe for the moment. 

Feel like i should have legal advice, etc before moving forward. Not sure if i possibly need a restraining or protective order? But i really have no money for a lawyer, and not much available credit. 

Right now i feel somewhat safe, but he is unpredictable, especially if i were to file for divorce. Right now he is "trying", so i am afraid of what it will be like if he has no chance.... 

Any advice? Is it possible to get through a rough divorce without a lawyer??


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## Coachme (Sep 9, 2015)

It sounds like what you have been trying has not worked and you are looking for other ways. I have a couple of practical suggestions, but I’m not sure I necessarily understand your situation as much as I could, so you may not find them suitable.
One. If you feel that he is controlling and questioning about your personal hygiene and sexual needs, then give him that control. Ask him if you should have a shower each day, if you should have a shave each day, say that you want to be clean and smooth for him and after your shower you can do something fun together, invite him to shower with you and shave you. Just suggestions. Turn it into something fun together.

Two. If you feel he is insecure about your sexual desires, start talking to him about what he does that you like, what he does that feels good. Give him security and confidence that he is the one for you and you don’t need to look elsewhere to be satisfied.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Ah, no. Read her update!!


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

Brit16 said:


> We have been separated for 2 months now..





Brit16 said:


> As for the communication tips, i don't believe I really need those anymore. We are not under the same roof anymore, thank God. He has made it very clear that it is not safe to be with him, or even around him anymore than i have to be.
> 
> As for the latest incident....he wanted me to talk to him, we were at school (we work at the same campus now, unfortunately), i told him "i will answer your question later, when i am not so upset with you" and i tried to walk off. He proceeded to follow me, and tell me that he wouldn't leave me alone. I asked him numerous times to "please go away, please leave me alone" and he refused. He was literally following me around and around the school, so close to my herls i truly felt threatened.
> 
> ...


this poster is separated and is now looking for coping mechanisms to deal with ex at work and advice for divorce on a budget for a controlling spouse. 

I think you made it out, I wouldn't go back. For the kids? you have to consider the long term ramifications of raising children in dysfunction.

you are not the abuser in the bathroom scenario. That would have freaked me out, him following like that. You were acting defensively and he's trying to manipulate you into guilt.


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men 
by Lundy Bancroft (Amazon)

This book might help you, i found it interesting.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Please remember that if you crack and go back now he will get many times worse. He won't want to risk you leaving again so he'll double down on the control.

Please get a restraining order, block his calls and do not allow him to bully you. 

He is extremely abusive and looking for different ways to manipulate you and get you to crack. In the future do not agree to even speak to him. 

Carry a voice recorder on you as well to document his harassment, and whatever you do not not cry in front of him. You cannot show that kind of weakness around scumbags like this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> Please remember that if you crack and go back now he will get many times worse. He won't want to risk you leaving again so he'll double down on the control.
> 
> Please get a restraining order, block his calls and do not allow him to bully you.
> 
> ...


I think a restraining order needs to be judicious and in this case is being used as a weapon and could do more harm than good.

He's obviously got some issues so if she files the restraining this can add to his fury not to mention impact any interaction with his family.

Just minimize any contact with him and ask for his family to help if possible. My exW's cousin went through this. The restraining order made things FAR worse. He's being a pest, he's trying to cling to her and the marriage, but he has not gone crazy with physical abuse that the OP has told us about.

OP, think twice about the domestic order. He'll take it as a vindictive move and can come back to haunt you later. There are times and place for them, from what you've posted I think bad move.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

What makes you think i was trying to use a restraining order as a weapon??? I honestly was not. I really don't know if I need one, or not. 

He has crossed the line physically from time to time, although most of the abuse is pure mental torture. 

Honestly, i have never really admitted, even to myself, just how far he has crossed the line at times, because they were "fewer and further" between maybe they weren't significant. More than anything, if i admitted to myself how bad things are, i would have been forced to leave, and i so desperately wanted to save our family. He seems to stop just short enough for me to think "he isn't physically abusive". 

But what i am afraid of, is not really what he will do now, while we are separated, but what he may or may not be capable of if i leave him, for good. 

He was really ugly to me the day before Thanksgiving, then came back the next day saying he loved me, didn't want to be without me, etc. How does he think he can be so hateful and then those words are supposed to mean something the very next day?! He even threatened to not bring the kids until i got some paperwork signed (i couldn't sign it because I couldn't get the file open....)


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Brit16 said:


> What makes you think i was trying to use a restraining order as a weapon??? I honestly was not. I really don't know if I need one, or not.
> 
> He has crossed the line physically from time to time, although most of the abuse is pure mental torture.
> 
> ...


Suppose he hits you. You can call the police and he would be arrested. So what difference does the retraining order become other than a premptive weapon. 

But you are saying "what if" etc. So essentially he's guilty until proven innocent. If he's angry the restraining order could actually put him over the edge.

Leave him. Be civil. Minimize your interactions with him and as each week passes he'll calm down and accept things over time.

You are already apart. Keep things civil. But a restraining order is truly a last resort. If he was outside your house every morning, blocking you from leaving, stalking you, etc that would be where the police need to be involved. 

I would give my own daughter the exact same advice I'm giving you. That restraining order can do more harm than good. Keep in mind it could impact his ability to possess firearms, get a security clearance, a job, etc.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

I understand what you are saying. I had not really thought about it until he showed up at the house one night not wanting to leave, then the next day harassed me at work, to the point where i hid in a bathroom. I guess I thought it may at least get him away from me, to keep him from doing those types of things. But at the same time, i was afraid it could make him escalate. Thanks again.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

This guy has gone into meltdown mode, and she should be concerned if he loses his right to have a gun? I'm sorry, I can't see that as anything but a positive. He works for a school, not the CIA, why does he need security clearance?

"Be civil" no matter how crazy men act seems like the sort of female conditioning that creates codependency. That "good girls" aren't loud, or mean, and always need to be nice. Don't report that rape ... what about ruining his life. Same mentality and frankly, it's crap.

He's stalking her at work with the dedicated goal of getting her to break down. I'm guessing he hopes you get fired so you have no choice but to go back.

I'd go to HR and see their advice about a restraining order effecting you working together. But if you do nothing, again his crazy will have no consequences, so what's his motivation to stop?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

sixty-eight said:


> Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men
> by Lundy Bancroft (Amazon)
> 
> This book might help you, i found it interesting.


This sounds like a REALLY good book.. over 1,000 (5) star reviews ... if you have read this.. @sixty-eight -maybe you could compile a thread on it?... I've always been under the impression Higher Testosterone men are more controlling.. I know it's not that Simple...nothing ever is.. but that combined with anger issues, being cheated on.. temperament tendencies..

Many women are attracted to these type of men it seems.. we have a niece... she is always bringing home a new A-hole who .. even this Thanksgiving.. walking through the door...I guess they just broke up the night before... I asked what happened.. just like the title of this thread...her response "He's got Insecurity issues!".. he looks like a bruiser.. got the tattoos, the beefed up body...just fits the profile of what I'd consider a higher test sorta guy...

This article speaks about the controlling aspects...

The Testosterone Curse, Part 2 - When men behave badly, is their testosterone to blame?




> I'd like to expand a bit on some of the points I made earlier about how high-testosterone males have difficulty treating the opposite sex with the consideration and respect they deserve. Insufficiently sensitive to a girl's or woman's feelings, they also struggle with simply appreciating these feelings. And so, among other things, they typically don't function particularly well in marriages.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

Thank you, i am so torn what is right. I just don't want to regret not getting one. And him pulling something similar, or worse at school again. 

I don't want him to get fired, just want to be left alone. He acts like it wasn't harassing since i am his wife. I told him it doesn't matter, he seems to think that he has a right to treat me like he did that day, and because he didn't "put his hands on me", that he didn't really do anything.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

As for the high testosterone, this is not the issue. He actually has low t and is even on supplements. I honestly believe he has some sort of mental problem, personality disorder, something.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Brit16 said:


> Thank you, i am so torn what is right. I just don't want to regret not getting one. And him pulling something similar, or worse at school again.
> 
> *I don't want him to get fired, just want to be left alone. He acts like it wasn't harassing since i am his wife. I told him it doesn't matter, he seems to think that he has a right to treat me like he did that day, and because he didn't "put his hands on me", that he didn't really do anything*.


If I was in these shoes.. I would act as ethically as you possibly can to reduce any damage to his reputation or cause him more aggression...

I would write him a letter stating that you want the best for him... but you can't live in fear and to kindly ask him to NOT confront you, or come after you in any way...... 

As you have a RIGHT and a NEED to protect yourself.. so the ball is in his court.. because if you have to act .. YOU WILL... getting a protective order.. but you *don't* want it to come to that... At that point.. he can only blame himself... if it all blows up in his face.. he has the POWER to stop this right now.. and make good.

How you deal with a man like this.. I hope it can make a difference..


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

With men like this, controlling men, you have to look at what they're herding you towards when they are flipping out.

As long as they can convince you that they are just going out of control or some kind of monster it distracts from his real motives. He is capable of keeping it together around other people, no? 

So it sounds like he is trying to scare you on a few levels into coming back. Stalking at work, trying to control your movements at your house. Thats intimidation. I would avoid the legal system for now. If you get a piece of paper saying he cant come near you, it wont help you unless you can also run and hide. I would get a can of mace, and some self defense classes. Avoid weapons he can take and turn on you. Keep your phone charged. Tell everyone about his behavior, including work. Make a weekend bag for you and your kids and leave it in your trunk. Get a cheap trac phone and a car charger and put it in the bag with some cash. That book i reccomended has a whole chapter on leaving your abuser. He is a classic abuser and in most cases cannot change. 

Unfotunately many abusers dont fit that musclebound tatooed stereotype. There are many professional men who know exactly how to act for the outside world. Charming even. If they didnt know how to do that, they would never be able to reel anyone in.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

Brit16 said:


> He acts like it wasn't harassing since i am his wife. I told him it doesn't matter, he seems to think that he has a right to treat me like he did that day, and because he didn't "put his hands on me", that he didn't really do anything.


He does think that. He thinks of you as a possession. He feels entitled to treat you however he wants to the goal of getting his own way. Be. Careful with anything he could percieve as disrespect. You want his focus off of you. Do things to that end goal. Be very boring. Take measures, but keep them off his radar. Spend lots of time with friends and family, where you will have a shield of sorts
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Brit16 said:


> As for the high testosterone, this is not the issue. He actually has low t and is even on supplements. I honestly believe he has some sort of mental problem, personality disorder, something.


Is his Testosterone being regulated Ok then.. his behavior should be brought up to his Doctor. So he's always been this way.. its not something that started with his treatment or anything like that, then? Just a really sad situation.. and you both work at the same school.. What is his reputation like at the school.. is he well liked or found to be difficult ?


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

SimplyAmorous said:


> This sounds like a REALLY good book.. over 1,000 (5) star reviews ... if you have read this.. @sixty-eight -maybe you could compile a thread on it?... I've always been under the impression Higher Testosterone men are more controlling.. I know it's not that Simple...nothing ever is.. but that combined with anger issues, being cheated on.. temperament tendencies..
> 
> Many women are attracted to these type of men it seems.. we have a niece... she is always bringing home a new A-hole who .. even this Thanksgiving.. walking through the door...I guess they just broke up the night before... I asked what happened.. just like the title of this thread...her response "He's got Insecurity issues!".. he looks like a bruiser.. got the tattoos, the beefed up body...just fits the profile of what I'd consider a higher test sorta guy...
> 
> ...


it is an amazing book. He's a psychologist who provides counseling (usually court ordered) for abusers. It really helped me understand the why and the thought processes behind those kind of attitudes, and gave me a lot of closure.

High testosterone has nothing to do with abuse. Abuse is about control, entitlement, disrespect, excuses, and blaming (usually victim blaming)

There can be abuse in lesbian relationships, there can be abuse in relationships affected by low T. I know many guys who are big and manly and full of testosterone, but treat their women gently and with respect. And i know many smaller guys who are totally devious, projecting an charismatic likable image and then going home and terrorizing their families. A true abuser tends to be a snake in the grass in this day and age. If he was blatant, he'd never get away with it.

What kind of thread do you think would be most helpful?


Also, i bet you that her ex is well liked at school, and seen as charming. I bet he seems like that to anyone she hasn't exposed him to, and some that she has. Men like this are hard to spot, and normally only show this side of themselves to their SO. Keeping it a secret is an important factor, so they make the victim keep it under threat. no one will believe you, i'll get custody of the kids, if you leave, i'll hurt a pet, i'll hurt you, i'll never let you go, it's actually all your fault because if you hadn't done x i wouldn't have flipped out. etc.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

You are so dead on with him being "charming", he is charismatic, outgoing, "never met a stranger", fun to be around, the list goes on. But he is also controlling, jealous, selfish, manipulative, thinks he is above others, etc. Lucky for me, i get the second list, and others get the first ! 

I really haven't "exposed" him to anyone other than both of our families. Althoygh both were suprised at the extent of the abuse, neither thought things were good between us. He can only hide it so much. When we would be around family more than just a day (holidays / trips, etc) it never really went smoothly. He would try to keep the damage to dirty looks, comments under his breathe, etc. So they would never "hear or see" what was happening exactly, but a lot of times i was in tears and he would be clearly short with me, so it should have been fairly obvious to them. 

I thought he wouldn't cross the line at school, but this year "the line" has definitely been crossed. He has still managed to keep others from seeing it, but its just a matter of time. Hes really just been lucky people haven't seen the things going on.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

To anonymous.... he is well liked at school. Occasionally he has "issues with people", basically they do something he doesn't like, they exchange words, then he holds a grudge. These things don't happen too often but i have noticed he does this with co-workers from time to time. And he would be able to convince others that he was right, and the other person was wrong, no matter what happened. 

He has always been like this, from before we even married, throughout the entire 12 years of our marriage. Obviously he hid it a little better and didn't let it come out as bad in the beginning, or i wouldn't have married him. I just thought "everyone has flaws", and that they were managable. I tried to appease him and the issue escalated quickly and continued throughout the years. 

The only time he seemed to "get better" was when he got a head baseball job (which was extremely demanding of his time). During those couple years he basically just neglected me, with occasional abuse mixed in. I had just had our first son, so all my time went to taking care of my son, all his went to work, and even when he had a chance to spend time with us, he would just go play golf.... i don't think anything really "got better" during that period though, i was just really good at walking on eggshells by then, and he was very distracted by the other priorities in his life (that were clearly more important than us). He has become a better father since then. But not husband. Long story short, he has been this way the entire time we have been together.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

jdawg2015 said:


> Suppose he hits you. You can call the police and he would be arrested. So what difference does the retraining order become other than a premptive weapon.


Seriously? So she should wait until AFTER he cleans her clock to call the police? The guy has gone into psycho meltdown mode, chased her into the bathroom at work, and according to OP has crossed the line physically a few times in the past.

Get the restraining order. He shouldn't be buying a gun now anyway, based on his obvious mental instability.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

happy as a clam said:


> Seriously? So she should wait until AFTER he cleans her clock to call the police? The guy has gone into psycho meltdown mode, chased her into the bathroom at work, and according to OP has crossed the line physically a few times in the past.
> 
> Get the restraining order. He shouldn't be buying a gun now anyway, based on his obvious mental instability.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If someone you consider yourself superior to, entitled to control, got a piece of paper that says you can't come around anymore. But you have kids, and you know where she works, and where she lives.

Does it stop you? Or are you resentful and stewing about it. Especially someone in psycho meltdown mode.

I'm really not trying to be an alarmist. but be really careful with that. To someone who is not on board with letting you go in the first place, it can be like poking the bull. You can't deal with him like you would a normal, rational person. He's not crazy. He's smart and he's used to getting his own way at any cost to his family.

In VA, people can do private transfers. That means I can go to a gun show, and buy a gun off of someone walking in to sell it. If we both have a VA drivers license then there is no paperwork. If he wants a gun, he'll get one. either way.

I think she should contact her local women's shelter or call the abuse hotline. get some advice.


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## Brit16 (Dec 12, 2013)

Thank you everyone, i see both sides to this, thats why i was so unsure of what to do. 

He has plenty of guns already, we live in Texas!


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