# I hate being right all the time



## Mclane (Apr 28, 2016)

I've got 2 daughters, J 24 and N 20.

I moved out in 12/06, and the divorce was final in 12/09.

So my daughters were 14 and 10 when my marriage fell apart. Well it fell apart a year or two before, with lots of conflict and fighting that children should never see, but I digress. The divorce was high conflict and contested, and there was severe alienation on the part of my now exwife. My youngest daughter tried to stay loyal to me but about a year into the divorce she cut me off completely as well. 

I had always been close with my daughters, although I had started to clash with my older daughter who was about 13 at the time, she got into Goth, and wanted to do piercings and other weird things and no one was going to tell her otherwise. Between that and the friction between her mother and myself we stopped talking, I moved out and she refused contact for 3 years despite my ongoing efforts.

The damage done to the relationship between myself and my 2 daughters was to some degree, permanent and the relationship was never the same. 

Long story short, in 12/2009, literally weeks after we received the final stamped divorce settlement from the court, my eldest contacted me, because she was miserable living with her mom. She moved in with me, and we got along reasonably well. She wrote me a long letter apologizing for cutting me out of her life, and that she realized her mom made me out to be a horrible monster that I was not; but that only lasted about 10 months, at which time she announced she was pregnant and was moving in with her boyfriend in an apartment in the boyfriends parents house.

I tried to talk her out of keeping the baby, she wouldn't hear about it. Tensions soared but we maintained a relationship. A year or so later she and the boyfriend moved away to an economically depressed area so they could afford to live on their own in a cheap apartment, he worked for less than minimum wage in a mattress store. 

They both gave up 4 year college degrees to build a family and my grandson came along 3 years later. I visited them about a half dozen times in the past few years, it's about a 7.5 hour drive and taking a plane just isn't worth it by the time you're done driving to the airport, renting a car, etc. But I digress, again. 

I was very "judgemental and critical" about their decisions, and between that and the damage done during the divorce, she once again cut me out of her life and we haven't spoken in about a year. My youngest is going to college near her older sister and stays with her on the breaks. My exwife has custody of my youngest but my exwife moved out of state and rarely sees either daughter. 

I found out today through the grapevine that my eldest and her boyfriend are "broken up but living together due to finances only, they are no longer in love".

They're living at or below the poverty line with 2 young children and they want nothing to do with each other, from what I understand.

I'm waiting for a knock on my door. Not sure how I would handle that. Before they moved away ~4-5 years ago I offered to set them up with an apartment in my area. 

This post is more of a vent, although comments always welcome.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Since you have been known to be impulsive in your decision making, you might want to seriously consider what you will do if/when you get that knock on your door. Determine if you will help and how. Stick to your predetermined level of help.

How can your wife have custody of a 20 year old adult?


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## Mclane (Apr 28, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> Since you have been known to be impulsive in your decision making, you might want to seriously consider what you will do if/when you get that knock on your door. Determine if you will help and how. Stick to your predetermined level of help.


You're right I am impulsive. I can't say what I'd do when and if she reaches out. 



Blondilocks said:


> How can your wife have custody of a 20 year old adult?


In NY custody is until age 21, along with child support and in NY parents can be "directed" (aka ordered) by the courts to pay for college.

Nice, eh?

In most states as you probably know it's 18. That bit of legislation in my state cost me an extra $125,000 over 3 years.


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## Unicus (Jun 2, 2016)

Mclane, I'm not sure I see you as the impulsive one here, at the very least, your daughter seems to have you beat by a country mile. It also sounds like you're looking forward to that knock on the door. It's always sad when the kids over identify with and take on the experience of their same gender parent and divorce you, too.

I think there are multiple, complex issues at play here. To me, the one of most concern is her history of those impulsive, self destructive behaviors...she's not in a good place, nor does she seem to have the abilities to get herself out. Since you're missing her anyways, why not use this as an opportunity to reach out to her and re establish contact, she sounds like she desperately needs it.


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## Mclane (Apr 28, 2016)

Unicus said:


> It also sounds like you're looking forward to that knock on the door.


I've certainly got mixed feelings about it.



Unicus said:


> Since you're missing her anyways, why not use this as an opportunity to reach out to her and re establish contact, she sounds like she desperately needs it.


I thought about it. At the moment I'm not supposed to know, and if I reach out, then it's going to get back to the "whistle blower" and cause them all sorts of aggravation.


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

I'm sorry this all happened. 
Your ex should have never bad mouthed to the children, this should never happen but unfortunately it does. 
I think the best thing to do now it just "Be There" for them. 

Before my dad passed away he gave me a bit of advice: 
Try to put yourself in your kids shoes & understand what's going on with them. 
Let them make their own decisions in life as it's the only way to learn. 
Give guidance & advice but never tell them what to do once they're teens. 

I've no kids (yet) but i'll use his advice. 


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## Mclane (Apr 28, 2016)

MrsAldi said:


> I'm sorry this all happened.
> Your ex should have never bad mouthed to the children, this should never happen but unfortunately it does.
> I think the best thing to do now it just "Be There" for them.


Thanks.

I try not to take the estrangements personally but I've gotten so much flack, disrespect, lack of appreciation, I've tried so hard to make things right only to be pushed away. 

If I do hear from her it's because she'll be sticking her hand out, not because she's at all interested in a relationship with me, she's made that much clear.




MrsAldi said:


> Before my dad passed away he gave me a bit of advice:
> Try to put yourself in your kids shoes & understand what's going on with them.
> Let them make their own decisions in life as it's the only way to learn.
> Give guidance & advice but never tell them what to do once they're teens.


I never told my kids what to do. I tried to dissuade them from having children while they were teenagers, tried to explain how they're setting themselves up for a life in poverty, how it's best to get a degree, then a job, then once established in a stable environment and been in a relationship for more than a year, only then decide to bring a child into it.

She had absolutely no interest in anything I had to say and just got more angry the more I spoke.

Now everything I tried to warn them about has happened, and I'm supposed to try to fix it?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

You can divorce a fish, but never one's flesh.

All of your children are your responsibility until you or they die.

Having said that, it does not mean that they get to financially strap Dad at every turn.

It does mean, when they need help they get the respect of an honest response and an honest attempt to help them......all within reason, of course!

Blood is thicker than prikly-communication-blather or cold-bath-water.

A Dad should never shut out or cut out any of his children. You are first, the Adult, then the Elder. Act like it when dealing with them.

If they cut you off or do not want to talk to you....it is THEIR choice. Remain loyal to the end. And be patient....sometimes that is your only option.

Children can be Wayward. It happens. Let them tie-off their scruffy-skiff at your dock, when needed. 

Yes, your rules [and rues] apply....make them reasonable.

As a lesser God, you created life....jointly...your seed, mother's eggs....nurtured them to a large degree. 

The mantle of responsibility was not passed on to the next male, the next Dad in the lineage, he bolted or got booted.

Back at you....boomerang kid and grandkid......I like it.....so should you!

If she does return...she returned to YOU, not to the other "Exed-out [half] of the other 23 chromosomes.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Mclane said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I try not to take the estrangements personally but I've gotten so much flack, disrespect, lack of appreciation, I've tried so hard to make things right only to be pushed away.
> 
> ...


She hasn't come knocking yet, has she? If not, you are not being asked to fix anything. You can't fix it anyway, even if she asked you to.

You must let her learn her lessons and get tired of the results of her own choices.

If she does come knocking, figure out how to not enable her, but just be a loving parent. She seems bound and determined to learn everything the hard way, and she is not going to change, even if you tell her what to do. She seems to be the type that has to think things are her own idea, and resists any wisdom from more experienced people.


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

No you cannot fix their decisions, only help from now on. 
It could be financial or emotional support. 
I'm sure in a couple of years they will regret not taking your advice & will be in the same boat with their own kids. 

Do you want to help them financially? 
Or think "oh well you've made your bed"

I don't know, I always had to earn every penny, my Dad never give me any handouts. I respect that now. 







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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

You gave them the courtesy of your Wisdom....and they rejected it.

But they did not forget it. Do not rub the salt of their hidden tears into their wounds.

Offer no more advice. Offer them your company. If they ask you for advice, parse your words.

At this juncture, be kind and considerate. If not for the sake of your daughter, then for the grandchild.

As bad as your daughters situation is, do not make it worse. God, that is so easy to do with Wayward children.

Be short with words, advice...long with wisdom.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

The title of your post pointedly said "You being right all the time".

You are not: 

a) on the right side of history". The right side would be painless, pleasurable, easy....and satisfying, in every respect. You have visited and cohabitated on the wrong side of the street and paths that your own choices and your checker board-history, led you down.

b) in the right spot on your highway's life. If you look in the rear view mirrors, you will see skid marks, dead skunks and ***** that you ran over. You made a lot of carrion eating birds, Happy, Happy, Farrel.

c) in touch with the "True right". This... aligns with the Collective Destiny, with you at the "Sweet Spot", its GPS coordinates are dab-smack center in Eden City, Shangri-La Province. It's Mayor is Ponce De Leon. Don't lose your Ruby Sneaker's.

d) an oracle. An Oracle can read tea leaves, crystal balls, an astrological progression, and know where the bad turns and pitfalls are. You have gone head first in some of those pits. I know...I was there too. You landed on my lasting impression on the clay bottom.

e) not Dead. You can zig-zag, evade further in-coming fire and brimstones, levied at you, from above, below. Cannons to the Left, cannons to the Right, into the Shadow of Debt. Debts owed for transgressions unseen and not avoided. You inherited the debts of your spawn...the........boomerang DNA.

Don't ya LOVE IT. 

Better than the slow-motion Dust-Storm that your flesh will soon fall prey to. Eh? From flesh to dust in [3600 coffin days]....self immolation via cremation, not factored in.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

It should be against forum rules to smoke weed and then post.


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## Unicus (Jun 2, 2016)

You'd reach out now not b/c you know something you're not supposed to, but b/c the timing is right and the risk (hopefully) would be lower. it's using the info you have not so much to spill the beans, but to start a dialogue knowing she might be more amenable to it. what comes up in that dialogue (other than you wanting to have contact and checking in) is her call.


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## Mclane (Apr 28, 2016)

MrsAldi said:


> Do you want to help them financially?
> Or think "oh well you've made your bed"


I've got mixed feelings about it. I've been treated as nothing more than a wallet for so long I'm sick of it. I have the financial resources to make things much easier for them but that doesn't mean I "should" or I'm obligated. 

I spoke to my exwife at length this afternoon, it was a rather unusual, friendly discussion- we speak rarely and it's almost always business only. This time she filled me in at length, she doesn't speak to my daughter much but she is aware of the situation. My daughter is ready to move out and get her own apartment with the 2 kids, the boyfriend has a girlfriend already and is not around much. My daughter has applied for jobs and supposedly can get one as soon as she gets a car but she doesn't have enough money for one yet. My ex offered for her to move in with her with the kids (she lives in NC) but my daughter wants to stay in the area (upstate NY) for reasons that are not clear. She can get an apartment for about $900 per month and thinks she can get about $1000 per month in child support so it's not all bad I suppose.

I texted my daughter, told her I'm here for her if she needs my help and that I love her. I've heard nothing, that was this afternoon, it's now around midnight over here. 

My ex suggested that I do as she did, apologize for everything we put them through during the divorce, all the conflict and damage that was done. She said our eldest daughter has no recollection whatsoever of a happy childhood, she remembers it as being all bad, and my ex sent her pictures which did in fact remind my daughter that she had a pretty good life up until she was about 14 when the divorce tore everything apart. 

I thanked for the information and the suggestions but told her that I've done my share of apologizing ad nauseum and I won't go down that road again. 

If I hear anything from my daughter I'll be sure to update this thread.

Thanks for all the responses guys.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> It should be against forum rules to smoke weed and then post.


Thanks, Dear........

If one doesn't have enemies, one walks the Earth unnoticed.

The walking dead need a jab and a needle to eject their bile and move their bowels.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Mclane said:


> *I've been treated as nothing more than a wallet for so long I'm sick of it. *I have the financial resources to make things much easier for them but that doesn't mean I "should" or I'm obligated.


IMO this issue may be causing some stress in your current relationship. 

BTW, the financial assistance would also benefit your *grandchildren.* You have the means to try to break the cycle of poverty and poor choices for THEM. I really do not think you want the grandchildren pregnant or making kids at 16. I don't think you want to be a great-grandfather just yet. 



Mclane said:


> My ex suggested that I do as she did, apologize for everything we put them through during the divorce, all the conflict and damage that was done. She said our eldest daughter has no recollection whatsoever of a happy childhood, she remembers it as being all bad, and my ex sent her pictures which did in fact remind my daughter that she had a pretty good life up until she was about 14 when the divorce tore everything apart.


I don't have kids or never been in any situation similar, but you should think about this. I might be beneficial to YOU also. I sense you are very strong. You could do this, and be honest about it. It might be a way to help break the cycle without spending money on them.


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## BBF (May 21, 2015)

"It should be against forum rules to smoke weed and then post."


I find SCM's comments interesting, usually spot on and frequently insightful. Better some THC-assisted observations than prune assisted judgment dumps.


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## Mclane (Apr 28, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> I don't have kids or never been in any situation similar, but you should think about this. I might be beneficial to YOU also. I sense you are very strong. You could do this, and be honest about it. It might be a way to help break the cycle without spending money on them.


This is not the first time my eldest daughter has cut me off for long periods of time, without good reason (as far as I'm concerned). The first 3 year estrangement, I would call, and leave messages, apologizing for anything I may have done to make her life an unhappy one, over and over again. 

I finally realized I was chasing my tail and it was tearing me apart.

I'm done apologizing. 

I sent her a text yesterday. I told her that I love her and that I'm here for her if she needs me.

My GF suggested that I consider a check for, say $1500 with no strings attached, no expectations, just because I care. 

I've heard nothing, and therefore, I will do nothing. As far as I know my help is neither needed nor wanted until and unless I hear otherwise. 

Who knows what's really going on over there. All I've heard is through third parties, one of which is my exwife, who, while apparently trying to be helpful has a history of significantly skewing the facts, and who knows how much truth she was given in the first place?

I'm not going to let this possible mess of my daughter's life and my indecision as to what to do or not do drag me down the emotional rathole again. Life is too damn short.


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

I doubt $1500 will do any good, I mean it's just throwing money at the situation looks/feels cold. 

There is two sisters who don't get along or have much of a relationship & they both don't have a relationship with their parents. 

I would start repairing the emotional relationships first before I would hand over money. 

This world is a tough one without family support, having lost my mother at 15 to cancer & my dad to cancer in 2013 it's hard without parents. I know I have my in-laws & they call me their "daughter" but it's not same. And I don't know what I would do without my brothers, it's nice just to have them there to talk/vent about sh!t. 

You're right life is short & it would be a tragedy not to get have a bond with them or your grandchildren. 

Yes I know there 7 hours away, but families here have kids in the US & Australia and keep in touch via Skype. Try (if you want) general small talk on Facebook or whatever first & then move on to Skype.
















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## Mclane (Apr 28, 2016)

MrsAldi said:


> I doubt $1500 will do any good, I mean it's just throwing money at the situation looks/feels cold.


Well, my thought is that it would come across as genuinely caring. "You don't want anything to do with me, but I'm thinking about you and since we aren't talking, I'm helping in the only way I know how".



MrsAldi said:


> There is two sisters who don't get along or have much of a relationship & they both don't have a relationship with their parents.


My 2 daughters get along well. So well in fact that my youngest daughter decided to go to school near her older sister and stays with her on school breaks. 



MrsAldi said:


> I would start repairing the emotional relationships first before I would hand over money.


That's what I've decided. 



MrsAldi said:


> Yes I know there 7 hours away, but families here have kids in the US & Australia and keep in touch via Skype. Try (if you want) general small talk on Facebook or whatever first & then move on to Skype.


My younger daughter speaks to me only when she wants something and has no interest in just chatting.

My eldest, as I said won't even return my text offer to help.

Therefore Skyping, FBing, and other methods of communication aren't relevant at this particular time.


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

I sincerely apologise, I thought I read they didn't get along. 
I'm delighted they have a good relationship. 

There is a lot of pride here, even in your title of this thread.
"I hate being right all the time" 
Instead of "Why don't my kids respect me?" Or "Why don't I have a bond with them?" 

I'm not trying to be condescending with you at all, so please don't get offended. 

You said you are done with apologies, correct don't say sorry again, say I am your Dad & I would like it if we can keep in touch more. Let's start off on a clean slate. 

It's a shame for them too to miss out with you, in the short time I've known you here, you have a great sense of humour with a slight sarcastic tone. But it's hard for you to show some emotions even though there is a real loyal person there. 

Don't hand over cash & then that's it. They'll never respect you for it. 

Your eldest has your pride, by the sounds of it. 
Admitting to needing help is admitting that her Dad was right. 
That's hard to do. 

I had 5 brothers & a Dad who cared but I had trouble asking for help when my ex bf abused me, pride got in the way, they told me he was trouble, I didn't listen. 
Took me two years to admit I made a mistake. 

I hope this will be of some help to you. 
Us girls are complicated  















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## Mclane (Apr 28, 2016)

I called the boyfriends mother tonite. We haven't spoken in quite some time, but we used to be very friendly and we certainly have our children and our grand children's best interests in mind. She used to be very close to my daughter. My daughter, her boyfriend and their first child lived with the mother in an apartment for a year or so before they moved away, and she was a mother figure to her, definitely much more so than my exwife.

Anyway I called her, we spoke for a while. She told she hadn't spoken to my daughter much in these past months, she too was cut off just like I was, for no reason that she understood. She acknowledged the breakup but said that she had asked her son about there being a girfriend and he was adamant that there was not. He could be lying, my exwife could be mistaken, that one's a mystery for now. Doesn't really matter I guess, although I'd think any chance for possible reconciliation would be less if there is another girl in the picture but it doesn't seem that they're moving in that direction anyway.

I asked her about the used car that the boyfriend was coming to the area to pickup, she clarified that it is her brother's car, an older model Honda Odyssey with only 50k miles in good running condition, they're putting new tires on it and fixing a few things, and the boyfriend will drive it back later this week so they'll have 2 cars which should ease their immediate situation and supposedly make it possible for my daughter to get a job. How she's going to work with 2 young children is beyond me. 

She told me she paid $5k for the vehicle and didn't ask me for any help but I offered to pay half, and she was very grateful. She said she'd let them know I helped out if I wanted her to, or conversely she'd keep silent. I said it doesn't matter to me I just wanted to help and I was glad for the opportunity. I really don't expect to hear so much as a word of thanks from my daughter but I feel better knowing I did something for them and of course for my grandchildren.

At one point they were starting to plan a wedding. I had offered to give them $5k as a present and advance it if they needed it. I guess I got away cheap.


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