# Marraige where all passion is with reservation - redeemable?



## prufrock1 (Jun 12, 2017)

I'm trying to decide whether to tell my wife I want to separate. It is an excruciating decision. Here is an executive summary. More important details are in post #16. If you want to advise me, I can send the full history of my romantic life, because I find it to be important to understanding the situation.

I never loved my wife with the reckless abandon I knew I was capable of expressing to a lover. To make every word between us poetry and to hang on her every word and anticipate her every irritant. We married anyway, at her insistence and my sympathy for her pure affection and abandon toward me, and I became comfortable in the marriage. We have built a home with pets and then two precious girls, now 3 and 5, but I still fall short on her need for validation and affection, despite my efforts to improve. I don't feel capable of natural affection, but can manufacture it according to the recipe if I make effort. There is no spontaneity in my affection. No romance.

This past fall, she cheated on me due to this defect. I found out after a couple of months and we settled on an open marriage for 3 months. We’ve both seen individual and relationship counselors. Due to the open nature of our marriage, we dated people on Tinder and I met someone two weeks ago who I immediately and stupidly fell for, and who professes to have done the same. We’ve already slipped and said “I love you” to each other, and then felt very stupid and foolish for it. She knows I have kids and live with their mother. The mother knows I want to date her exclusively, which is not something that she wants me to do.

I can see this new love and I being very happy together and feel as if every love song and poem is about us. My wife knows of her and my feelings toward her, but I haven’t told her that I told her “I love you”. I told my wife that I cannot remember ever having such feelings for her—the tightness in the chest and indescribable elation—even when we first met, and I told her that I have I have settled for this marriage.

She is sad, but I think she understands. Even so, I know she would have me back if I said I would stop. She wants me to let her know whether it is over. We’ve been married 7 years, have two wonderful daughters and are both scared about ending the marriage. We both like many aspects of the marriage and having children and all the joy that brings. We know it would be traumatic on the girls to separate. 

Even so, should we endure a lifetime of “what if’s”? She will wonder whether there is a husband out there who would have had for her the same strong feelings she’s had for me. I will wonder what would have happened if I had followed my heart and stuck to the one whom I loved. Will she cheat on me again to get that need met?

I told my new love about my issues with my wife. She doesn’t know I haven’t resolved this issue yet. She said I may have mistaken sympathy for attraction early on. It sounds like a valid insight.

What do you think?


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

You are high on a hormonal cocktail of serotonin and dopamine which will not last and not a good basis to make any decisions. However, seeing as you cannot give your wife the kind of love she desires and she cheated on you maybe it is time to really be honest and call it quits.

Would you have asked for an open marriage if she had not cheated on you? Would you still have worked on it.
Your wife should not have cheated on you but instead asked you for a divorce.

I think you have to sort out your marriage first before getting involved with other people.
Take 6 months, really try and then if it fails divorce, let your wife go and find someone who will love her the way she deserves to be loved and vice versa.

Incidentally long term marriages don't always have that that buzz you are looking for, its more about mutual respect and understanding.


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## prufrock1 (Jun 12, 2017)

thanks for response. My therapist says the same --- chemicals in the brain. I guess my question is should I continue a marriage for the sake of stability (we are stable) and sacrifice a new relationship that was founded on such an immediate and sensational foundation. I don't think I can ever forget the last two weeks, stay or go. I love everything about this person. Will I always regret not following the chemicals?


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## ResignedWife (Jan 20, 2017)

prufrock1 said:


> thanks for response. My therapist says the same --- chemicals in the brain. I guess my question is should I continue a marriage for the sake of stability (we are stable) and sacrifice a new relationship that was founded on such an immediate and sensational foundation. I don't think I can ever forget the last two weeks, stay or go. I love everything about this person. Will I always regret not following the chemicals?


Will you dump your girlfriend once the "immediate and sensational" has been replaced with daily life like groceries, car repairs, running errands or other drudgery? Because at some point the chemicals wear off, or at least lessen as daily life becomes real again.

If you chase the chemicals of attraction, you will NEVER find true happiness because you'll always be chasing the next "high" with another person and then getting bored once the chemicals wear off.


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## prufrock1 (Jun 12, 2017)

I'm not just chasing the chemicals. I just wish they had been there at some point with my wife. We had good times and are good friends now, but I never had this torrent of feeling and emotion to reflect upon. And I wonder if she deserves someone to give that to her. She says she wants me to more affectionate and thoughtful. I don't think I was good at that, even in the beginning.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

The way the brain chemicals work, when they ware off you get amnesia about the high you had when you were 'stupid-in-love'. So even if you did love your wife this way, you would not remember it now.

Just like you will not remember how you feel now once those chemicals ware off with your newest hot love.

I think you need to divorce your wife. You are chasing a version of love that does not exist... well except for a few short months when you are high as a kite on those chemicals.

Go to youtube and search for lectures by Ester Perel. She talks about the kind of things you are struggling with.

She has a good book that would probably help you a lot.

Mating in Captivity: Unlocking Erotic Intelligence by Esther Perel

You might want to get a copy of that book for your wife too. She can learn so that she can find someone who actually loves her in her next marriage.


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## prufrock1 (Jun 12, 2017)

From an evolutionary standpoint, I see why the chemical effect would wane over time. 

I struggle with the statement that even if I had this chemical cocktail in my brain when I met my wife, I wouldn't remember it now. What is your basis for the assertion? What is your basis for amnesia?

When I met my wife, I remember talking to her after about a week of heavy dating/sex and saying that I felt I was having to ignore romantic feelings I had for another person--a specific person that I had not approached yet. I asked if she knew that old Lovin' Spoonful song, Did You Ever Have to Makeup Your Mind? She asked who it was I had feelings for, saying "please tell me it's not X", and it was X, and so even she could read me on that. 

Here now, 2 weeks into the chemical romance, I have no doubts that I do not have feelings for someone else, other than the strong feelings of sympathy and love I have for my wife. 

The point being that I don't have amnesia about that first experience. Also, I know I had doubts in our first 2 months because I dumped her for the sole reason that I wasn't having strong feelings for her and was still having feelings for other people. 

I felt horrible for having dumped her and led her on, and so I called and took it back the next day and we continued dating.

Now years later, I am essentially doing what I did on that first dumping experience, but the stakes are much higher and instead of having feelings for someone else, I've been dating/sleeping with someone else.


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## prufrock1 (Jun 12, 2017)

From an evolutionary standpoint, I see why the chemical effect would wane over time. 

I struggle with the statement that even if I had this chemical cocktail in my brain when I met my wife, I wouldn't remember it now. What is your basis for the assertion? What is your basis for amnesia?

When I met my wife, I remember talking to her after about a week of heavy dating/sex and saying that I felt I was having to ignore romantic feelings I had for another person--a specific person that I had not approached yet. I asked if she knew that old Lovin' Spoonful song, Did You Ever Have to Makeup Your Mind? She asked who it was I had feelings for, saying "please tell me it's not X", and it was X, and so even she could read me on that. 

Here now, 2 weeks into the chemical romance, I have no doubts that I do not have feelings for someone else, other than the strong feelings of sympathy and love I have for my wife. 

The point being that I don't have amnesia about that first experience. Also, I know I had doubts in our first 2 months because I dumped her for the sole reason that I wasn't having strong feelings for her and was still having feelings for other people. 

I felt horrible for having dumped her and led her on, and so I called and took it back the next day and we continued dating.

Now years later, I am essentially doing what I did on that first dumping experience, but the stakes are much higher and instead of having feelings for someone else, I've been dating/sleeping with someone else.


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## prufrock1 (Jun 12, 2017)

So a few days have gone by and my rational senses are coming to. My wife is getting an apartment which I can use when she has custody (every other week) and she has split our bills so that we have our own bank accounts. She says she can't get past the feeling that I want time (I asked her not to make any rash decisions or talk to an attorney) to see if it works out with my current lover/girlfriend/etc. 

I really want time to let the initial chemical love cocktail to metabolize. Then I will know if its possible that I had the same cocktail with my wife, and have hence developed this narrative to mask a reality that I'm just not very good at expressing affection and desire in general. If that's the case, I'll work on it if she will. 

It's not fair for me to ask that she put her life on hold. She is an awesome, attractive, smart, funny woman who deserves to be happy. 

Maybe she's better off without me. Four months ago, when I found out she was cheating on me emotionally--looking for validation from other men, etc.--I would have done anything for her to return my affection, which was very strong. She said that all I wanted was sexual experience and not her, and said I needed to work on things outside of the bedroom. 

I feel I'm digressing, but really wanting to know if anyone has any insight onto how I can get out of this situation. Right now, I'm playing my wife and my girlfriend, and I want to be honest to both. I think if I am, I stand to lose them both. Maybe I deserve to at this point, and then maybe one comes back later?


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Insight? You need to do a lot of work on yourself before you involve other lives in your confusion.


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## prufrock1 (Jun 12, 2017)

Thanks for the advice, but both are already involved in the confusion. Can't go back. Are you suggesting I come clean to both about what I've said to the other, and that I need time off? Wife will move out to an apartment and I'll have kids 1/2 time. She might file. Why not at least have one of the two that stick with me at this point?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

prufrock1 said:


> So a few days have gone by and my rational senses are coming to. My wife is getting an apartment which I can use when she has custody (every other week) and she has split our bills so that we have our own bank accounts. She says she can't get past the feeling that I want time (I asked her not to make any rash decisions or talk to an attorney) to see if it works out with my current lover/girlfriend/etc.
> 
> I really want time to let the initial chemical love cocktail to metabolize. Then I will know if its possible that I had the same cocktail with my wife, and have hence developed this narrative to mask a reality that I'm just not very good at expressing affection and desire in general. If that's the case, I'll work on it if she will.


It takes 18 to 24 months for the infatuation high to dissipate. So this is ridiculous for you to ask your wife to give you time to try on another woman for 18 to 24 months. 


prufrock1 said:


> It's not fair for me to ask that she put her life on hold. She is an awesome, attractive, smart, funny woman who deserves to be happy.


Good, that means that now that you are separated, it will not take her long to find someone to replace you. Funny who that is usually the outcome of these sorts of separations.


prufrock1 said:


> Maybe she's better off without me. Four months ago, when I found out she was cheating on me emotionally--looking for validation from other men, etc.--I would have done anything for her to return my affection, which was very strong. She said that all I wanted was sexual experience and not her, and said I needed to work on things outside of the bedroom.


She was right, wasn’t she? You said in your previous posts that you have never loved her. So she knows that you don’t love her. Why would you have done anything for her to return your affection if you did not love her? And why would she want to return your affection when she knew that there was no love involved. By your own admission, your affection was not about love.
I feel I'm digressing, but really wanting to know if anyone has any insight onto how I can get out of this situation. Right now, I'm playing my wife and my girlfriend, and I want to be honest to both [/QUOTE]
Your girl friend knows that you are married, right?

So the only person you are playing is your wife. You just want to have her on the back burner incase your affair does not work out. She deserves a lot more than that.

The only person you owe anything to is your wife. So you start there. You tell your wife what you have told us, that you have never loved her and that you want out of your marriage. That you only want her in the background in case your affair does not work out. And then you file for divorce and become an honest man.



prufrock1 said:


> I think if I am, I stand to lose them both. Maybe I deserve to at this point, and then maybe one comes back later?


You stand to lose both of them either way. Affairs only work out long term about 3% of the time. So your best bet is to divorce your wife. If you want to date the OW until that ends go ahead. It’s a transition relationship. Start working on yourself. Become a better man. Then after your marriage is over; after the relationship with the OW ends, be on your own for a while. You are a big boy, you can do it. And only after you have been on your own for about 2 years start dating to get into a new, relationship without all this baggage. And this time, only marry a woman who you want to marry.

It’s a complete cop out that your wife pressured you into marriage. You are a grown man. You can only be pressured into do what you want to do.. but do not want to take responsibility for. Maybe see a counselor for a while to figure out why you would think that you are somehow the victim of your wife forcing you, pressuring you into a relationship that you did not want. A relationship that you had 100% control over walking away from. 

I think we are see part of the issue. You are afraid to be on your own.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

prufrock1 said:


> Thanks for the advice, but both are already involved in the confusion. Can't go back. Are you suggesting I come clean to both about what I've said to the other, and that I need time off? Wife will move out to an apartment and I'll have kids 1/2 time. She might file. Why not at least have one of the two that stick with me at this point?


Why? Are you afraid to be on your own? 

Do you need a woman in order to survive?

You only want your wife to stick around so that you can use her until you find her replacement. Seriously man, doesn't this thought make you feel like there is something wrong with your thought process?

You have already decided to have your children around only half the time. So deal with it.

Let your wife go make her own life.

And you make your own life.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

prufrock1 said:


> Thanks for the advice, but both are already involved in the confusion. Can't go back. Are you suggesting I come clean to both about what I've said to the other, and that I need time off? Wife will move out to an apartment and I'll have kids 1/2 time. She might file. Why not at least have one of the two that stick with me at this point?


Yes, you might start with being honest. If you were honest from the beginning you wouldn't be in this position. You and those women might have found sincere relationships by now. You'll never have a good LTR if you withhold truths from you partner. You can't change what was done, but you can right yourself. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

prufrock1, as you read more about affairs, you'll learn that they are quite a lot like an addiction. You are in a chemical high. You're like an opiate addict. Everyone who is not using opiates can see that the addict is destroying his life; the addict has a hunch but isn't willing to give up the high. You are caught in the "contrast effect", where no one can compare to your affair partner; this is the same as an addict who knows that they will never, ever get the same amazing feelings from real life, and it's why so many can't give up the drug. It's why your wife will seem dull and flat compared to your partner. Still...you have a hunch that things are wrong, or you would have divorced your wife and not looked back. You wouldn't be on TAM asking for feedback. By if you can't have your wife, why not keep chasing that high, right? Think about it.


Playing Captain Obvious: your marriage is in extreme distress. Your wife emotionally cheated and you opened your marriage. It's a very bad decision to open a struggling marriage. Unfortunately, it's common for one of the spouses to fall for someone else when a struggling marriage opens. It makes a bad situation worse and now your brain is flooded with feel-good chemicals. It's like counting on an intoxicated person to make good decisions- it rarely works out well in the long run/ 

You have several years invested in your marriage and two young children. You say that your wife is an awesome person. You're about to give up a lot for what is very likely a short-lived fling. If things burn out with your partner, are you going to regret giving up your family so easily? Missing out on so much with your kids? Seeing your wife and children happy with another man in your place? It sounds like your wife is ready to move on and will willing to make the decision for you. Is she seeing other people as well?


Rationally, you know that your best move is to kick the habit and re-invest in your family; this rational part of your brain is likely what brought you to TAM. It's why you are struggling to make an executive decision. 

If you didn't have kids, I'd say walk off into the sunset with your Tinder girl; maybe walk from your marriage if you said that your marriage was bad before. But neither are true, and especially since you have kids, I recommend that you have a talk with your wife. Find out if she is willing to work on the marriage and re-commit to you, if you closed your marriage and re-committed to her. It is worth giving your all for a period of time, if you are both in agreement. You have a family to preserve, if possible. 

I personally really like Marriage Builders- read Surviving an Affair, see if you're willing to enact their extraordinary precautions to remove the conditions which make cheating possible, then work their programs of meeting emotional needs (like affection for women and sex for men) to create the feelings of being in love. But there are other programs as well. In any case, it's unlikely that you and your W would improve on your own; no offence, but you've both messed things up so far. I think you need professional help to strengthen your marriage.

I don't know if you actually have any options here. Your wife has already stepped out on you emotionally, and it's possible that she is ready to or already has stepped out physically as well in your open marriage. But I think you'll look back with fewer regrets if you do all you can to try to save your family.


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## prufrock1 (Jun 12, 2017)

Thanks everyone for your comments and advice. I value commitment and sacrifice, and I am struggling on saving the marriage. 

I may have omitted part of our history, because several on here have said that my wife cheated emotionally. She cheated physically in December-February. October-December she was on Tinder and sending erotic messages and pictures (I found this out later) and then someone eventually convinced her to meet. She told me and the kids that she was going shopping all day. She didn't come home until after 2 AM the next morning. I called her and she said it was raining, and I happened to look at weather.com and saw no rain on the route to the shopping outlets but kept quiet. The next morning I checked the bank statements and she had been brazen enough to pay for a hotel on our joint account. Being naïve, I called the bank to report fraud, and I'll never forget her calling from the bedroom "it was authorized". She came clean to me. I punched a hole in the wall. She left with the kids for a preplanned play-date. I stayed home and listened to Pearl Jam’s Black on repeat. So that's how it started. 

One night about 6 months prior to this, we were lying in bed, and she said that she wasn't happy in general, and I said I wanted to help, but we didn't get very far in the conversation. She had lost about 40 lbs, and was taking good care of herself. A few months later, she was "booty dancing" by herself in the kitchen with just our family there (she's a professional academic, but used to go clubbing, and I was not paying much attention (the only clubbing I do is golf) and she was visibly upset with my lack of attention. We had some wine, and I revealed that I was struggling with attraction-and that it had always been an issue and still was. We discussed our dating foibles, something that we don't often do since I had once dumped her for the same reason. All was quiet--it was the holidays--and then over Christmas, I found out about the texting with men and we talked some. She said it was just talking and there was no physical contact. But she cheated anyway. 

After she came back from the play-date, we talked some and she broached the idea of an open marriage. It was not my idea. I played along with it that day, and the idea grew on me--I'd only had sex with her so trying it with others was interesting--but that night I broke down in the kitchen said I didn’t want that, I wanted to work on us. She was emotionally detached. 

We fought on an off for 4 months. She was going out, clubbing, meeting people, and doing whatever. At first, I was nosy and trying to look on her phone and find out what was going on. She would never let me see her phone—kept changing the password. In March, she messed up and I got her password and I found that she was still texting the man she had slept with in December and sending photos. He was married too, she told me. We had a heart-to-heart in bathroom and she said she was done and we agreed to go to counseling and I found the counselor for us. 

We went about 10 times. The first sessions the counselor asked for a rating on a 1-10 scale of how much we wanted to save the marriage. I said 10 and she said 7. After about 6 sessions, we told the counselor that we had agreed to open it up. We were getting along and the counselor was suspicious but hopeful it would work. She was still on Tinder—I don’t know that she ever went off—and I had made a Tinder profile. I dated and slept with a couple of other people. I even met up with an old girlfriend and we slept together a few times. It was going pretty good, honestly—not counting in the emotional detachment from the wife—and I was planning on continuing indefinitely, becoming more selective and focusing on myself. 

My wife has been having a ton of dates and sex—3 men a week on average. She gets free dinner and drinks so I can’t blame her. I would guess she’s slept with 10 different men over the past 2 months. She’s not done anything behind my back, but it’s a don’t ask, don’t tell policy.

Then I met the most recent person, and it was a different connection entirely. We just get along better than the wife and I do. I’ll admit, she is a student six years my junior, and has less stress in life. No kids, no job, no bills. Wife and I are in the same place in life. And we are both stressed out by it. I told my wife that I was seeing the same person for 3 dates in a row over the span of one week. I could tell she knew this was different and she was upset. Back when she suggested opening the marriage, I said I was concerned one of us would become attached, and she pointed out that I would be more likely to become attached than her. For her, sex is just a fix—an external validation that meets her need. For me, sex can be a fix, but I do focus more on the connection and emotional side of it.

Anyway, that’s where we are. The wife knows I’m in a serious relationship with someone. She says it’s my girlfriend. She says I hope your girlfriend likes me. I told her I have had feelings toward the girlfriend that I don’t recall having with her. The wife and I didn’t have the 18-24 months of love endorphins that someone alluded to. At least I didn’t. I kissed my wife on the cheek the other day when we would usually kiss lips quickly. That apparently was the last straw. She suggested getting an apartment, having a parenting schedule and getting an attorney.

The girlfriend knows I’m still married, but she doesn’t know I’m on the fence. I think I’ve led her to believe that the marriage is de facto dead. It may be. I really like the idea of a clean emotional start with someone that (1) I have strong feelings for and (2) that has strong feelings for me—she said she’s never felt this way with any other relationship she’s had, and she loves me.
With that in mind, anything else to add?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

prufrock1 said:


> Due to the open nature of our marriage, we dated people on Tinder and I met someone two weeks ago who I immediately and stupidly fell for, and who professes to have done the same. We’ve already slipped and said “I love you” to each other, and then felt very stupid and foolish for it.


You should.

You sounded somewhat intelligent, albeit emotionally stunted, until this comment.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

prufrock1 said:


> thanks for response. My therapist says the same --- chemicals in the brain.


Anatomy of an Affair - The Chemistry of Love - Marriage AdvocatesMarriage Advocates

The Neuroscience of Infidelity: ?Flame Addiction? » Brain WorldBrain World

The Neuroscience of Infidelity: ?Flame Addiction? » Brain WorldBrain World

What is Disloyal Fog? - Affaircare



> I guess my question is should I continue a marriage for the sake of stability (we are stable) and sacrifice a new relationship that was founded on such an immediate and sensational foundation.


Sensational foundation? You mean cheating on your family? Yeah, great foundation, that.

Let's hear you practicing your speech to your 'wonderful' kids: "Kids, I just need to feel that butterfly in my stomach. I know you don't want me to leave and see you only every other weekend, BUT THIS STUFF MATTERS!"


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Anything else to add?

Sounds like your marriage is toast. It was probably doomed from the start.

Get a divorce.

Then figure out the rest of your life.


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

prufrock1, thanks for coming back and adding the info.

You posted that your wife cheated emotionally earlier. Your new information actually makes more sense, because it would be rare for a marriage to open after emotional infidelity only. Her cheating physically explains why there was a move to an open marriage. Her continuing Tinder use also explains why she is pretty agreeable to moving on quickly, IMO. It sounds like she has a lot of options (probably very poor options, even if she doesn't see it that way now.)

Both you and your wife are making life-changing decisions for you, each other, and your children while you're basically doped up (on dopamine, serotonin, the infidelity pleasure neurotransmitters). This is not conducive to stability and long-term happiness. 

So, my advise doesn't change very much, but my odds of your marriage working have dropped even further, unfortunately.

Before your own Tinder experience, you wanted to save the marriage. That might have been due to the shock of her betrayal, but even so- at some point in the recent past, you very much wanted to stay together. And, very important: you have two young children.

So I would still advise you to have a talk with your wife. Get as honest as possible and let your wife know that this is a Last Chance Opportunity. Do the two of you want to try again? Close the marriage; go no contact with the affair partners. Implement extraordinary precautions (go do a search on the Marriage Builders website). Give it a last shot to build a happy marriage between the two of you and provide a stable environment for your kids. Is she willing to try it? Are you? If you both are willing, I think it is worth trying. 

That said, you two are spinning wildly away from each other. I think the odds of both of you agreeing to do the work- and then actually being able to follow through with the work- are low. Not impossible, though. Certainly worth putting all cards on the table. 

It seems to be fairly common that the spouse who didn't really want to open up the marriage falls in love with someone else. She kicked things in with her affair(s) and opening up the marriage is an additional statement, on top of her infidelity, that you don't matter much. So it is not surprising to me that you would be very vulnerable to your own intoxicating affair, or that you would fall quickly for someone who is making you feel good, valuable, sexy, fun, etc. It's almost as if you were set up for it. 

If you and/or your wife don't or won't work on your marriage, I hope you can slow down with your partner, and provide your kids some stability. Don't have a quick introduction to the new girlfriend; do spend your time with your kids without her, try to help them transition to their new life. Your wife might not do that and your kids will need at least one of you to be sane and stable.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*In tacit agreement with those who advocate that D is by far the best option here! 

But notwithstanding, please take the necessary time to find yourself well before you search for your one true love again! Failure to do so might have you sadly repeating what you've already gone through, except with a different woman with a different personality and with far different needs!*


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

I'm sorry but your wife has emotionally left the marriage ages ago and just kept you hanging on. You didn't want what happened but now you have opened up the marriage and a hornets nest imo, it is best to stop the messing around, get the lawyers, and divorce.

Start a new life with your new GF. Somehow I think your stbxw will rue the day she started down the road she did, some people are plain stupid and do not realise what they have till he/she moves on to someone else.


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## prufrock1 (Jun 12, 2017)

RoseAglow said:


> Sensational foundation? You mean cheating on your family? Yeah, great foundation, that.
> 
> Let's hear you practicing your speech to your 'wonderful' kids: "Kids, I just need to feel that butterfly in my stomach. I know you don't want me to leave and see you only every other weekend, BUT THIS STUFF MATTERS!"


I'm a little put off by you quoting "wonderful". the kids are wonderful, but neither of us believe is staying married and "faking it until we make it" for 15 more years. You are implying that I'm a bad father because I'm not a happy husband. I can distinguish the roles. I would be curious to see you thoughts after reading my post #16. I'll look past your vitriol and focus on you content.

Is the disloyal fog the same as the fog that affects romantic relationships between two single people? 

I should point out that the wife and I are both committed to the kids' happiness and the science is still out on how much they are emotionally effected without the religious and social stigma of divorce. I would imagine they will have more to deal with, but I hope in the end they can appreciate parents who are honest about their faults, so long as their well-being is paramount. I don't plan to tell them about the GF for at least 6 or 7 months, if the relationship even lasts that long. 

I think you are assuming I'm going tell my kids right away. The plan is to get a cheap apartment for our single lives, and keep the house we live in. We will be nesting here every other week with them and doing family activities when we can. Wife and I are good friends and I think we can pull it off.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Pro-tip again if you want to get good advice all relevant information should be posted up front.

So you made a big mistake marrying a women you were not really attracted to. It also was probably not the most tactful to tell her such. That being said you wife has chosen to respond to this in the most destructive way possible. She blew it up from orbit. First destructive to you but mostly for herself in the long run, this is going to be a very hard lesson for her in 2 to 3 years down the line. That's assuming she ever wants to get out of the lifestyle she has chosen. If she wants to be honest the lifestyle will also turn off a some portion of potential mates. If she doesn't want to get out of it it really is like being an alcoholic she is going to end up sexually burned out and destroyed. There is also the possibility that she really does love you and that finding out that you her husband are not attracted to her has caused her so much insecurity that she has chosen to fill it up with strange men. Man that is a terrible idea. It also suggest some real character issues which were probably always there and would have reared there ugly head at some point. I feel bad for her, but it's her life and she would probably disagree with my assessment at least right now. 

You are also headed there, but it seems at first you were reluctant. Which it a good thing in my opinion. Here is the facts you wife is gone and you are wasting time on her. I am not even sure why you are doing this. Is it just because of the rejection. Do you need to regain some of your self-esteem because of her rejection of you by cheating? Is it because you feel bad that you made a mistake marring her and now feel responsible for her choices? This is not true you are certainly not her savior or responsible to be her backup plan. It seems like you should just file now, part amicably or at lest peacefully while you can and then move on. By the way her reaction to this will show you her true motives, if this was all really about feeling bad about herself because she wanted you to be attracted to her, she will probably react very badly to the idea of divorce, either be extremely sad or angry. She may even ask for a last chance. If she is just done she should be pretty amicable.

I would have strong doubts that this new infatuation you have will grow into a healthy relationship because of the circumstances you met under. But it does give you a good idea of what it is like to really be attracted to your mate. This is why you should end your marriage, if you call it, the next time you feel this kind of connection with someone it may be in a more stable environment without all the drama attached to it. Relationships need a good foundation, an open marriage is not that. What I am saying is I am just not sure good your chances of having a long term monogamous relationship (which is what it sounds like you really want) with a women you met while married who was willing to be with you still. Seems monogamy isn't a priority with this women. That will probably come back to bit you if at some point it does become a priority for you again.

Finally I think your plan is terribly passive aggressive and takes the worst parts of being separated and prolongs them. It's like a purposeful state of limbo. Eventually one of you is going to want to move on, why not do it now so you don't drag someone else into you limbo hell. 

Your wife basically blew up your marriage. Look at it as a way out. Now you see what you were missing. Detach from your wife, take time to heal, learn about yourself and go out and find it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

prufrock1 said:


> I'm a little put off by you quoting "wonderful". the kids are wonderful, but neither of us believe is staying married and "faking it until we make it" for 15 more years. You are implying that I'm a bad father because I'm not a happy husband. I can distinguish the roles. I would be curious to see you thoughts after reading my post #16. I'll look past your vitriol and focus on you content.
> 
> Is the disloyal fog the same as the fog that affects romantic relationships between two single people?
> 
> ...


A good parent lives an honest life because that is they need to model to their children. 

You have not been honest to your wife from the very start. Being dishonest to your wife hurts your children.

I think your wife's actions now are hurting them too.

The best thing that two parents can do for their children is to love each other and treat each other with love and respect. The relationship between parents is supposed to be the foundation for a family. With a weak family foundation, your children do not have the stable home that they need.

This is why sometimes, divorce is better than staying together for the kids. At least that way the children see two parents being honest. And each parent can give their children some stability within their own home.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

prufrock1 said:


> I think you are assuming I'm going tell my kids right away. The plan is to get a cheap apartment for our single lives, and keep the house we live in. We will be nesting here every other week with them and doing family activities when we can. Wife and I are good friends and I think we can pull it off.


Nesting is usually done or a short period to show parents what their children's lives will be like when they go between two homes and have little stability day to day.

Few adults can take it for more than a few weeks because it's very disruptive to work and their wellbeing.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

prufrock1 said:


> I'm a little put off by you quoting "wonderful". the kids are wonderful, but neither of us believe is staying married and "faking it until we make it" for 15 more years. You are implying that I'm a bad father because I'm not a happy husband. I can distinguish the roles. I would be curious to see you thoughts after reading my post #16. I'll look past your vitriol and focus on you content.


That was me, not Rose. And no, I am NOT implying you're a bad dad for staying if you're unhappy. I'm implying that if you leave because you are in love in TWO WEEKS then you are acting irrationally, and NOT in your kids' best interests, just cos you're on a high. A high that you KNOW is fake and ridiculous.



> The plan is to get a cheap apartment for our single lives, and keep the house we live in. We will be nesting here every other week with them and doing family activities when we can.


How long is your one true love going to allow that, do you think?


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