# Doesn't Feel Right - Years Post Affair



## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

I posted here last fall. As a quick review my wife started an affair with an old high school "connection" in fall 2010. Our marriage wasn't perfect but overall it was decent. At that point we had been married 16 years. I found out by accident about 2 months after it started. Her behavior changed radically, I could tell she was hiding something. Anyway, I nice guyed my way through it after initial discovery, gave her multiple chances and kept busting her for being in communication with the OM. I don't know If sex happened but it's irrelevant, it was deeply emotional. I saw emails so full of emotion and "need to be with you" that it ripped my heart wide open. Worst part was my wife turned away and basically gave me the cold shoulder. She did a great job of blame shifting, gaslighting, etc., and being a nice guy I fell for it. I was in limbo for a long time. Didn't want to bust up our marriage, we have 2 daughters. I never gave her consequences for those actions. That ate me up inside for a long time.

Last fall I FINALLY called the OM's long time GF, they have 3 kids together. She knew about it on some levels and also shared with me that this guy had an extensive history of affairs. My wife finding out about this made her feel great as I am sure you could guess. I also found out she was still emailing with him, of course she said it was benign. After my phone call the OM cheated on his long time GF(and mother of his children) in front of the GF! She finally kicked him out. This says a lot - my wife blamed me for wrecking OM's relationship. Talk about blame shifting. I told her after the holidays we are divorcing, she was in agreement. After the holidays she acted surprised I still wanted to divorce. She didn't want to dismantle the family, yada yada.

Cut to the chase. We are still married. It was just over a year ago that I really found out about affairs, how they work, going underground, how you shouldn't try to nice someone out of an affair, etc. I did a lot of work on myself and have come a long way. In the grand scheme of my life I am happy except for my marriage.

My wife has been depressed for at least 5 years, probably closer to 10 but it's definitely been worse since the affair 4 years ago. Both of my daughters have commented numerous times on it, asking me about mid-life crisis, etc. She won't do anything to try to make herself happier. She won't go to therapy, take anti-depressants, etc. She keeps spinning the wheel over and over. That's how she's built, she'd rather stay unhappy than do something different.

I have realized over this long holiday weekend when I spent extensive time with myself and my 2 daughters and minimal time with my wife around that I actually prefer it to her being around. I am more relaxed and have more fun engaged in life when she is not around. She places a lot of blame for her unhappiness on me because it's easier than looking insider herself and making any changes. She has always been pretty closed off emotionally and over the course of the last 5 years plus this has become even more so. She is unhappy more than she is happy.

Anyway, I know this has been a long rant. I welcome any thoughts, suggestions, face slaps, etc. I have broken much of my nice guy mold over the past year, I know I have a ways to go. It's a work in progress. I don't let her blame me for her unhappiness, I have established boundries in such areas of this(I remove myself when she starts down this path), etc. We fight more since I stand up to her. I feel she would be fine with us doing our own thing. I realized recently how all the areas of her life that she says are bad - her job, her marriage, her relationships with several of her friends, her health, has a common denominator - Her.

Due to the affair I realize how much I miss being with someone who ENGAGES in life, shares themselves emotionally, and at the end of the day wants to put equal effort into a great relationship. This one feels very one-sided to me. Any MC or any attempts to work on our marriage have been initiated by me. I know I rug swept the affair for several years before really facing it. I know trust as we knew it is gone. I look at staying in this marriage as is and it just depresses me. Maybe the years of false R doomed it. IDK.

Thanks in advance. If this sounds too much like a victim puke let me know. Not my intent but I could see where it might. I feel like I am looking over and over for a reason to end it.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

My take away from this is you're just staying in this relationship for the kids. You seem smart enough to understand that she fell out of love for you a long time ago and it probably won't come back. How old are your daughters? I was in a pretty similar situation. I dumped my ex and I'm in a new relationship now. My girlfriend make my cheating ex look like dog puke. I am SO much happier. My only sadness is watching my kids have to grow up now with divorced parents. I know everyone says, "Better divorced happy parents rather than together and miserable ones" but I still feel for my kids. They didn't deserve second place behind mom's selfishness. So I guess the bottom line is the grass is definitely greener for you anyway but just make sure the cheating was a deal breaker. I don't condone staying for the kids but if you think you can you should try to make the relationship work for them. No one would fault you if you couldn't but at least you honestly tried.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

She cheated. That's enough reason as far as I'm concerned.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

It is never too late to make a change and move forward with your life. From your description, your wife doesn't sound remorseful and I believe that to be a key component of successful R. You said you rug swept, now it is biting you. Not surprising.

See a lawyer and move forward. Create a healthy home environment for your children to see. You are setting the example, make it a good one.

She has responsibility for her well being. You cannot and will not fix her. She must take responsibility for that herself.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

There is a better woman and a better life out there waiting for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

If you're here looking for validation that it would acually be OK to end what sounds like a sham of a marriage, you don't need it. 

Go, be free and happier. Your kids are already asking "wtf?", so you know it's affecting them negatively. You might even be doing the same for your wife where she can go find something that makes her a bit more content.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

It sounds to me like there still have been no consequences. She still blames you. She has no remorse. Did you at least expose her? Do you even have sex? It's September now, why are you still married?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Have you given her an ultimatum? Therapy or divorce. And the therapy has to work.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Your problem is she engaged in the affair despite you. You begged and pleaded, even when you exposed, she blamed you for breaking up OM and his GF, then you threatened divorce, what happened? You backed off.

So now you're back to where you were pre exposure, still being nice to someone who's unremorseful.

She wasn't scared of divorce because she was going to lose you, it was because she was going to lose the life she had, so consequently now she's doing the jack sum of toss all to work on the marriage.

You maybe scared to be alone, but you're coming to the realization that life shouldn't be like this and finally you have to look out for number 1. You.

So put your cards on the table. Have a serious talk. Either she goes to MC and seeks help and you both work together to build a better marriage, or it's divorce.

The problem with that is you shouldn't really have to be giving ultimatums. Forcing someone to do something they really don't want to do only leads to resentment.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

Let her know her happiness is her responsibility. You are tired of her pinning her unhappiness on you. 

Then as others have said, she needs therapy. And if you want to attempt R you also need MC.

She either commits to owning her issues and working on the marriage or you divorce. There is no functional middle ground. The middle ground is limbo, in limbo you both stay miserable and teach your kids to be miserable.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Is this time close or around your D-Day ?
You could be having Triggers.. I caught my wife while having a Trigger from a past incident. It took me a year to figure out why I caught her and why I looked, even though I knew what emotional triggers where. I cried like a baby in therapy when it hit me. 

Therapy ? 
Marriage Counseling ? 
For you, Her or the both of you ?

If you haven't done MC or Therapy then I suggest you pick 3. Visit them and have 1 or 2 or even 3 sessions from each. Pick the Best one out of the three and then pick 2 more and do the same thing with the other 2. Pick the best one out of the 5.. Its a pain in the A$$ but a good counselor is worth the effort.

I had what I thought was a good therapist but then found what I thought was a better one. Trust me I raved about my first therapist in my earlier postings in my thread.. But the 2nd one is better.

You can't fix everything if all you have is screwdrivers in your toolbox.. You and your wife are missing tools in your respective emotional toolboxes. 

Sometimes a professional telling her, *NO IT'S YOU* helps and they listen to that.. Otherwise you're just the A$$hole looking to blame her.

Also its only a year, this stuff sadly takes longer. Especially since you rug swept it for *several years* you said ? Unfortunately you caused some of your own damage here by rug sweeping.. You basically delayed the healing process for you and for her.

Look if you can look at her and say you love her for own personal reasons then try the counseling. But if your true feelings are I'm here for the kids, then that's not a good enough reason honestly. 

You already wasted years of your life rug sweeping.. Are you gonna keep wasting more of them just faking the reconciliation so you can say you tried ? Because I know you don't see it, but you're faking the reconciliation as well. 

I get your happy with your kids.. But try to ignore the bad stuff.. Try to ignore you have kids with this woman.. Its just you and her.. Can you do this for you and her alone ? 

The good thing is you're past the point of ground zero.. If you would have asked me that question from Sept 25, 2012 to April 6, 2013. I would have said a resounding *YES*.

Today I say what was I thinking.. 20 years together, 14 years married, 2 boys.. We barely speak today..


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

From what you said in your opening post it sounds like you're coming to a decision. Feeling great when she isn't around points to where that decision is leading you. Sometimes two people just don't belong together. Sounds suspiciously like you're two of those people. Good luck in whatever you decide to do.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

2yearsago said:


> I have realized over this long holiday weekend when I spent extensive time with myself and my 2 daughters and minimal time with my wife around that I actually prefer it to her being around. I am more relaxed and have more fun engaged in life when she is not around.


This says it all. You don't know how wonderful life can be when you no longer have to look at a cheater on a day to day basis.




> She places a lot of blame for her unhappiness on me


Then its simple, tell her that you will make her happy by no longer being with her. Then she can go off and develop relationships with taken men who cheat all she likes.




> Anyway, I know this has been a long rant. I welcome any thoughts, suggestions, face slaps, etc.


Well what is it you want to do? Do you want to stay married to her? Or do you want to free yourself and enjoy life again?




> Due to the affair I realize how much I miss being with someone who ENGAGES in life, shares themselves emotionally, and at the end of the day wants to put equal effort into a great relationship.


Then I'd say its settled. Think about, and possibly make preparations to rid yourself of her.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> There is a better woman and a better life out there waiting for you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

BobSimmons said:


> Your problem is she engaged in the affair despite you. You begged and pleaded, even when you exposed, she blamed you for breaking up OM and his GF, then you threatened divorce, what happened? You backed off.
> 
> So now you're back to where you were pre exposure, still being nice to someone who's unremorseful.
> 
> ...


Great way of summing it up. I agree with just about every point here.

I never gave consequences for the affair, that's on me. I was extremely angry at myself for a long time. In fact that's a major reason why I finally called OM's girlfriend, to try to get that monkey off my back. She had a right to know as well.

When I have the ability to look back over the last 4 years from a 30,000 foot view its so much clearer. I started keeping a journal about 4 months after it started for my own sanity. Looking back I see the same patterns repeated over and over.

I want more, I push for more. She resists, we fight, things improve for a month or so, then we are back to where we were. It's classic co-depedency. As a matter of fact this cycle just repeated itself a month ago. Deep discussion, much improved for 3 weeks, then the same old life sucks, I'm depressed, you aren't doing enough things "right", etc.

I've come to that realization on forcing ultimatums too. They don't work. What you are doing is trying to get someone to do something that you want to do. It's a form of control. Plus like you said, it just leads to resentment.

I think she is more afraid of changing her lifestyle than of losing me. I am not afraid to be alone. I look forward to it.

What I see in myself is seeking validation that it's okay to end it. I should trust myself more, I know I've done everything I can. We were in MC last fall. When things disintegrated around session 10 the therapist said to me one-on-one "You can end the marriage knowing you've done everything in your power".


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Listen to your counselor.

Time to move on.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

2yearsago said:


> gave her multiple chances and kept busting her for being in communication with the OM.
> 
> I also found out she was still emailing with him


I have to believe that you've re-drawn your line in the sand so many times that your wife doesn't take you seriously. So you've now put yourself in a position that no consequence to her, short of actual divorce, will catch her attention.

You rug swept this. Of course you're not happy. When you found out she was still e-mailing him, you should have gone straight to divorce then.

It's not too late to give yourself a chance at happiness.


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

Keep us updated about your choices for the future. Whatever you decide, good luck.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

You know what you have to do, amigo. Now it's time to do it.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Your wife may be a lot happier after a divorce, too. Don't assume she will be worse off. Whatever her outcome, it is due to her affair and is not your fault.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

2yearsago said:


> I've come to that realization on forcing ultimatums too. They don't work. What you are doing is trying to get someone to do something that you want to do. It's a form of control. Plus like you said, it just leads to resentment.


The alternative is she gets to control you if you can't get any satisfaction out of this marriage.

Ultimatums aren't working for you, compromise isn't working for you. Only thing you can do is surrender to whatever she wants or......free yourself.




> I think she is more afraid of changing her lifestyle than of losing me.


Tough shyte. Not your problem.




> I am not afraid to be alone. I look forward to it.


You and me are a lot alike. I freed myself and made the decision to not have a steady woman in my life. I'm lovin' it.




> What I see in myself is seeking validation that it's okay to end it.


It is. Like I said, your only two choices, based on your description of things, is total surrender to her or get yourself free.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

I was thinking this morning about the various things that have happened in our marriage or in general regarding my wife where I have said to myself "That's it, that's the straw that broke the camels back, I'm done". It has happened numerous times in the last year.

My grandmother died, I told my wife, and she didn't care enough to tell her parents.

Her telling me to my face that the reason she had been sicker the last 3 years was because of the stress I was causing her.

When both of my daughters talked to me about mommy's depression and mid-life crisis and seeing some of my wife's ability to lie with a straight face manifest itself in my oldest daughter.

At each juncture I realize I am looking for "the reason" to leave.

I keep looking for validation that it's okay to leave. I have to trust in myself. I know I've done enough.

That coupled with the eye opener last weekend where I realized I like life better when she is not around tells me what i need to know. Time to trust myself.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

2yearsago said:


> I was thinking this morning about the various things that have happened in our marriage or in general regarding my wife where I have said to myself "That's it, that's the straw that broke the camels back, I'm done". It has happened numerous times in the last year.
> 
> My grandmother died, I told my wife, and she didn't care enough to tell her parents.
> 
> ...


It's still hard to pull that trigger, but you have to do what is right for you.

Do the classic side by side list -- Reason to Stay on the left, Reasons to Go on the right. I bet your right side is lengthy and your left side is nearly empty.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

It is not selfish to think about your happiness first. Selfish is worrying about only your happiness to the exclusion of everything and everyone else. Being happy will make you a better parent, a better husband and a better leader. Unfortunately, it sounds like you have to do it by yourself and find someone who wants to be a partner.

Not to be mean, but it sounds like she misses her affair partner. She still blames you for ruining his life? What about the current problems in your marriage? She, nor he, share any blame for the state of your depression?


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

2xloser said:


> It's still hard to pull that trigger, but you have to do what is right for you.
> 
> Do the classic side by side list -- Reason to Stay on the left, Reasons to Go on the right. I bet your right side is lengthy and your left side is nearly empty.


The issue with that approach is that certain items weight much more than others. Only the person writing those things down can truly place a value on them.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

You think too much and you talk too much. You are not a man of action. You need to change this. 

I'm telling you right now...whether or not you D your WW, if you don't solve your issue with prevaricating and vacillating whenever a big problem comes into your life, no woman is going to respect you or want to stay with you for long. 

An indecisive, wishy-washy approach to life turns off women faster than anything.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Your wife is responsible for this. She needs therapy. You know you can't do it all by yourself.

Your wife doesn't want a divorce? Seems to me that she has already in some measure already divorced herself from you and your daughters.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

2yearsago

Most MC diligently try to find a way to R, your MC has given you the green light to D. 
*What does than tell you?*

You have described a woman that has about a 2% chance of getting enough better to make a life better for you and the children and a 98% chance to continue to bring great misery to you and her children. *Stop talking and ACT!!! *



According to your posts you and your children will be better if you D. It is your responsibility to do what is best for your children even if you do not have the ballls to act on your own behave. *Reread Bandit’s post above.*


*You have a clear cut decision to make. You will either act and help your children or you will waffle like a fish on dry ground until you die!*


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

This might be a silly question but simply. What is keeping from divorcing someone who clearly doesn't love you, doesn't care, doesn't want to be in this marriage?

To me it just seems even though you know what you know, even with the realization that life might be better without her, you still won't do it.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

2yearsago said:


> Her telling me to my face that the reason she had been sicker the last 3 years was because of the stress I was causing her.
> 
> When both of my daughters talked to me about mommy's depression and mid-life crisis and seeing some of my wife's ability to lie with a straight face manifest itself in my oldest daughter.
> 
> ...


Looking for validation? You've got to be kidding. Sounds more like you're hoping to hang in there long enough that you're going to discover the "fix" for her and you'll live happily ever after. In the back of your mind something keeps telling you to give it one more day, week, month and she'll realize just how wonderful you are and be sorry for every looking elsewhere. Face it Dawg. You were hoping that if you got this guy out of her life, you two would be back in full vigor.
It ain't happening Dawg and you need to get this notion out of your head. In another year, youre going to be back saying the same thing. The thing you need to realize is that she didn't look this bastard up and fall out of love with you. You've got it backwards. She fell out of love with you and then looked this bastard up. 
Here's the thing my man. She ain't coming back from being little more than a room mate and a bad one at that. I'm sure your love life is what everybody craves. You even think you're helping you daughter but you're hurting them. Take a gander at what they're saying. 
My advice is get you head out of your azz and smell the coffee. How many ways does this woman have to tell you to f.o.?


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

ThePheonix said:


> Looking for validation? You've got to be kidding. Sounds more like you're hoping to hang in there long enough that you're going to discover the "fix" for her and you'll live happily ever after. In the back of your mind something keeps telling you to give it one more day, week, month and she'll realize just how wonderful you are and be sorry for every looking elsewhere. Face it Dawg. You were hoping that if you got this guy out of her life, you two would be back in full vigor.
> It ain't happening Dawg and you need to get this notion out of your head. In another year, youre going to be back saying the same thing. The thing you need to realize is that she didn't look this bastard up and fall out of love with you. You've got it backwards. She fell out of love with you and then looked this bastard up.
> Here's the thing my man. She ain't coming back from being little more than a room mate and a bad one at that. I'm sure your love life is what everybody craves. You even think you're helping you daughter but you're hurting them. Take a gander at what they're saying.
> *My advice is get you head out of your azz and smell the coffee. How many ways does this woman have to tell you to f.o.?*


Apparently at least one more time, hopefully in a different way.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> Looking for validation? You've got to be kidding. Sounds more like you're hoping to hang in there long enough that you're going to discover the "fix" for her and you'll live happily ever after. In the back of your mind something keeps telling you to give it one more day, week, month and she'll realize just how wonderful you are and be sorry for every looking elsewhere.?


Good 2 X 4 Dawg. Brutal but good insight.

I find it funny in a sad depressing sort of way how in every other area of my life I am a huge proponent of doing things different to achieve different results - the antithesis of crazy. But in the this marriage that's almost exactly what I've done.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

"Nurse, bring me 80 CC's of MMSLP and NMMNG... STAT!!!"


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## Welsh15 (Feb 24, 2014)

Sounds like after 2 years you know what the right decision is...leaving and divorce


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

Hardtohandle said:


> Is this time close or around your D-Day ?
> You could be having Triggers.. I caught my wife while having a Trigger from a past incident. It took me a year to figure out why I caught her and why I looked, even though I knew what emotional triggers where. I cried like a baby in therapy when it hit me.
> 
> Therapy ?
> ...


Why are you still together? She seems to be very unhappy as are you. Can you not sit down with her, acknowledge that you are both unhappy, and suggest that a fair divorce might lead you both to more happiness than you have now?


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

Thor said:


> Your wife may be a lot happier after a divorce, too. Don't assume she will be worse off. Whatever her outcome, it is due to her affair and is not your fault.


No, the outcome is due to both of them. She owns the affair. She doesn't own the decision of what to do afterward. Whatever the reasons, reconciliation does not seem to work. Why not? We are in no position to find out. Divorce is probably the best solution. It is what it is and at least if the OP is happier afterwards, the divorce was worth it.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

2yearsago said:


> I was thinking this morning about the various things that have happened in our marriage or in general regarding my wife where I have said to myself "That's it, that's the straw that broke the camels back, I'm done". It has happened numerous times in the last year.
> 
> My grandmother died, I told my wife, and she didn't care enough to tell her parents.
> 
> ...


If you live in a no-fault state or country, you do not need a reason. All you have to do is file for divorce. It will be cheaper if the two of you can collaborate on the division of property and care of the kids.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

sidney2718 said:


> No, the outcome is due to both of them. She owns the affair. She doesn't own the decision of what to do afterward. Whatever the reasons, reconciliation does not seem to work. Why not? We are in no position to find out. Divorce is probably the best solution. It is what it is and at least if the OP is happier afterwards, the divorce was worth it.


Yes, but, they would not be in this position but for her affair. He should not feel guilty about divorce. He tried but ultimately could not get over the damage and the trauma of her choice to cheat. So while he may be the one to decide a D is what he wants, she is the one who precipitated it.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

When people talk about rug sweeping I get the general gist. That is not discussing and working through the affair.

We have talked about it so many times it's been beaten into the ground. She trickle truthed, blame shifted, gaslighted for years until it got to the point of I don't care anymore. Maybe that's what they mean about not reconciling.

If you just feel like you've gotten back to where it was pre-affair with minimal effort to "fix" things.....is that what false reconciliation and rug sweeping means?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

2yearsago said:


> When people talk about rug sweeping I get the general gist. That is not discussing and working through the affair.
> 
> We have talked about it so many times it's been beaten into the ground. She trickle truthed, blame shifted, gaslighted for years until it got to the point of I don't care anymore. Maybe that's what they mean about not reconciling.
> 
> If you just feel like you've gotten back to where it was pre-affair with minimal effort to "fix" things.....is that what false reconciliation and rug sweeping means?


If you have been trying to get to the truth and have been holding her accountable for her lies, you are not rug sweeping.
Yes, I think what you are describing is "false reconciliation." She is not truly repentant if she is unwilling to face what she has done and make corrections. If she is not truly repentant, how can there be true reconciliation? I don't think there can be. You are not right back where you were pre-affair, because you can never go back to before the affair. Your wife doesn't think she has to own up to her issues and to build trust.
It's not your job to build trust, because you did not break it and you are not the untrustworthy member of the couple. If she wants your trust, she will have to show herself trustworthy. At this point, the marriage has not made any progress. You are stuck. You cannot move forward in the marriage on your own, but you can move forward and beyond it in your own life. The problem with that is you have to do it without her and you know it, that's why you are here. In order to move on with your life and to feel safe and healthy, you cannot stay where you are in the marriage. You have to make a choice between staying in a marriage with someone who is unwilling to do what it takes to make amends and to help you heal or you can divorce and make a new, healthier life for yourself. You chose.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> "Nurse, bring me 80 CC's of MMSLP and NMMNG... STAT!!!"


I really got into NMMNG summer of last year. Read NNSLP as well, got some out of that.

NMMNG hit me....hard. I worked on myself a lot utilizing the principles in this book Even though I've rocked the boat on my marriage, i still haven't left.

You've read the thread, I'm not happy. Why do I keep hanging around? I know it's not right. I sometimes think I am staying for my 2 daughters(even though that is not a good reason). Other times I think it's just out of fear which is dumb because I know I would be fine being on my own as well as wouldn't have much trouble pulling female attention.

Is it the fear of being the one to end the marriage? Even though in reality I KNOW it wasn't me doing that, I would just be pulling the trigger. I don't know what holds me back honestly, and it frustrates the s**t out of me.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

CynthiaDe said:


> If you have been trying to get to the truth and have been holding her accountable for her lies, you are not rug sweeping.
> Yes, I think what you are describing is "false reconciliation." She is not truly repentant if she is unwilling to face what she has done and make corrections. If she is not truly repentant, how can there be true reconciliation? I don't think there can be. You are not right back where you were pre-affair, because you can never go back to before the affair. Your wife doesn't think she has to own up to her issues and to build trust.
> It's not your job to build trust, because you did not break it and you are not the untrustworthy member of the couple. If she wants your trust, she will have to show herself trustworthy. At this point, the marriage has not made any progress. You are stuck. You cannot move forward in the marriage on your own, but you can move forward and beyond it in your own life. The problem with that is you have to do it without her and you know it, that's why you are here. In order to move on with your life and to feel safe and healthy, you cannot stay where you are in the marriage. You have to make a choice between staying in a marriage with someone who is unwilling to do what it takes to make amends and to help you heal or you can divorce and make a new, healthier life for yourself. You chose.



So hard to do... we all understand what needs to be done when we are in such hells of limbo... it's just so hard to face fear, uncertainly... we stay in limbo hoping to find different answers over and over...but sadly the same one keeps surfacing... 

~sammy


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## BURNT KEP (Oct 3, 2012)

2yearsago said:


> I really got into NMMNG summer of last year. Read NNSLP as well, got some out of that.
> 
> NMMNG hit me....hard. I worked on myself a lot utilizing the principles in this book Even though I've rocked the boat on my marriage, i still haven't left.
> 
> ...


It sounds a lot like my situation. I gave up talking about her affair and just don't really give a chit anymore. I can't support two households on what I make so the kids would suffer and why do they have to pay for what she did. I just go with the flow and don't really engage too much with her anymore.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

BURNT KEP said:


> It sounds a lot like my situation. I gave up talking about her affair and just don't really give a chit anymore. I can't support two households on what I make so the kids would suffer and why do they have to pay for what she did. I just go with the flow and don't really engage too much with her anymore.


So dude why do you choose to exist like this?

If you were to remove the affair from the equation do you have a good marriage now?

I just asked myself an eye opening question:

Why do I WANT this marriage?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

If you don't want to leave because of the children, then at least make some changes in your own life, so that your happiness and well-being are not based on what you wife does or does not do. You do not need her help to be emotionally, physically, and spiritually healthy.


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## BURNT KEP (Oct 3, 2012)

2yearsago said:


> So dude why do you choose to exist like this?
> 
> If you were to remove the affair from the equation do you have a good marriage now?
> 
> ...


Not really a good marriage. We don't talk about the problems she just wants to rug sweep all the bad stuff. I kind of catch myself just wishing she would have left with her op.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

BURNT KEP said:


> Not really a good marriage. We don't talk about the problems she just wants to rug sweep all the bad stuff. I kind of catch myself just wishing she would have left with her op.


Mine is very good at circular arguments that go nowhere and solve anything. It's crazy the amount of talking we do about topics that are deeper than surface stuff that never go anywhere. I think it's a defense mechanism.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

CynthiaDe said:


> If you don't want to leave because of the children, then at least make some changes in your own life, so that your happiness and well-being are not based on what you wife does or does not do. You do not need her help to be emotionally, physically, and spiritually healthy.


I've done a lot in the past 1.5 years to work on my happinness. I have re-built a full life. Good job, good health, good relationship with my daughters and family, good friends, hobbies, etc. Overall my life is well rounded and fulfilling.

My issue is that i can't just wall her off. Actually, I take that back. I can. It's that I refuse to. Prior to the affair I accepted that she was emotionally withdrawn. I did what I could to pull her out and try to build an emotionally connected partnership and marriage. At some point I decided it simply wasn't going to happen. I think this is a major reason why I accepted a lot of the fault of her affair - we weren't emotionally close.

It wasn't until maybe a year after the beginning of the affair that I woke up and realized that it was UP TO HER to re-engage emotionally. I just don't think she is able to due to depression, lack of interest in me, or whatever.

I refuse to go back to that so every couple of months I push for me, we have a big blow up, and round and round we go. My mistake is keeping doing that over and over. I simply need to realize she doesn't have it in her. I won't go back to emotionally walled off yet she choses to remain that way so I keep ramming my head into the wall.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I think it is b.s. that she is emotionally walled off. Because having an extramarital affair requires some engagement of emotions. She can be emotionally available...when she wants to be. Just not with you. 

C'mon man....


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> I think it is b.s. that she is emotionally walled off. Because having an extramarital affair requires some engagement of emotions. She can be emotionally available...when she wants to be. Just not with you.
> 
> C'mon man....


:iagree::iagree:


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

2yearsago said:


> I've done a lot in the past 1.5 years to work on my happinness. I have re-built a full life. Good job, good health, good relationship with my daughters and family, good friends, hobbies, etc. Overall my life is well rounded and fulfilling.
> 
> My issue is that i can't just wall her off. Actually, I take that back. I can. It's that I refuse to. Prior to the affair I accepted that she was emotionally withdrawn. I did what I could to pull her out and try to build an emotionally connected partnership and marriage. At some point I decided it simply wasn't going to happen. I think this is a major reason why I accepted a lot of the fault of her affair - we weren't emotionally close.
> 
> ...


You seem to be holding out hope that she will change. It doesn't appear that you are staying for the children. You are hoping that she will come to her senses and become a good wife. She hasn't shown any desire to do that. It is not your responsibility to keep working on her issues. That is co-dependent - when you are working harder at someone else's issues than she is.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> I think it is b.s. that she is emotionally walled off. Because having an extramarital affair requires some engagement of emotions. She can be emotionally available...when she wants to be. Just not with you.
> 
> C'mon man....


You pay for this every time you interact with her. I know you realize how much you are shortchanged out of having a real relationship often.

It's great you built a fulfilling life outside of her. Sounds great.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Bandit is right on... as I am not the ww, I live a relationship much like you and your wife. While I still do love my h, often my h will say to me, "I just dont do it for you anymore do I?"... and gosh do I dance around that, because for me, no matter how much he hurt me, it's so hard for me to turn around and answer the truth as I know it will hurt so deeply to him the truth that I now hold. 

So Ill be honest with you, most likely it's how she feels too, it seems once "it's" gone... it's sooo hard to bring it back... 

~sammy


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

sammy3 said:


> Bandit is right on... as I am not the ww, I live a relationship much like you and your wife. While I still do love my h, often my h will say to me, "I just dont do it for you anymore do I?"... and gosh do I dance around that, because for me, no matter how much he hurt me, it's so hard for me to turn around and answer the truth as I know it will hurt so deeply to him the truth that I now hold.
> 
> So Ill be honest with you, most likely it's how she feels too, it seems once "it's" gone... it's sooo hard to bring it back...
> 
> ~sammy


How about answering something like this: I don't feel like you have done what it takes to undo the damage you have done and nurture healing, so how could I feel any differently?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

*Re: Re: Doesn't Feel Right - Years Post Affair*



CynthiaDe said:


> How about answering something like this: I don't feel like you have done what it takes to undo the damage you have done and nurture healing, so how could I feel any differently?


QFT.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

CynthiaDe said:


> How about answering something like this: I don't feel like you have done what it takes to undo the damage you have done and nurture healing, so how could I feel any differently?



Personally I've used variations of those exact words, and get hit back with, "Nothing I do will be good enough for you, you just cant see hope.'' The guilt gets layed on so thick that it's sinking me. (( I know, I'm doing it to myself))

~sammy


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

sammy3 said:


> Personally I've used variations of those exact words, and get hit back with, "Nothing I do will be good enough for you, you just cant see hope.'' The guilt gets layed on so thick that it's sinking me. (( I know, I'm doing it to myself))
> 
> ~sammy


You said that you did not answer him truthfully, because it hurts him so deeply. Now you are saying it's because he turns it back on you. It helps to get to the bottom of why you do something or don't do it. If the real reason you don't answer him is because he turns it back on you, then face that and decide where to go from there. Instead you are taking on false guilt. Reject it. Sometimes it is necessary to simply say, "I reject that," and walk away.
I've done that. I didn't change the other person, but it sure lifted me out of the lies that I was hearing.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> I think it is b.s. that she is emotionally walled off. Because having an extramarital affair requires some engagement of emotions. She can be emotionally available...when she wants to be. Just not with you.
> 
> C'mon man....


You know even though this doesn't feel good to face it's most likely because there's a good sized chunk of truth here.

Last summer during a late night talk after I'd started to wake up to reality somewhat I walked away thinking to myself "she's just not that into me anymore".
And even though that hurt to realize at the time it also was kind of freeing. Freeing in a sense that it meant it was out of my control to try to fix anymore. I could let it go. I guess for some reason I let that one slip by.

The messed up thing now is I pull female attention on a regular basis. I know there is abundance out there. I don't really fear being on my own. 

So why am I still holding back and not filing? Because I don't want to be the failure that ended it? It's almost like I don't trust my feelings. I need my a** kicked to push thru this!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Did you read Married Man Sex life Primer and follow the MAP plan? Go to amazon and read the reviews.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> Did you read Married Man Sex life Primer and follow the MAP plan? Go to amazon and read the reviews.


Yeah I read it, got a lot out of it. I did run up my rank as well. I did this more for me and did a lot of it before I actually read the book. I think there are some great nuggets in there too that relate to NMMNG. Things like always playing the nice card, One-itis, etc.

It's a good book but I wasn't trying to get more action in the bedroom.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

2yearsago said:


> Yeah I read it, got a lot out of it. I did run up my rank as well. I did this more for me and did a lot of it before I actually read the book. I think there are some great nuggets in there too that relate to NMMNG. Things like always playing the nice card, One-itis, etc.
> 
> It's a good book but I wasn't trying to get more action in the bedroom.


So you used it to raise your "rank". How long did that take and was it noticeable on the difference it made in your life?


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

2yearsago said:


> You know even though this doesn't feel good to face it's most likely because there's a good sized chunk of truth here.
> 
> Last summer during a late night talk after I'd started to wake up to reality somewhat I walked away thinking to myself "she's just not that into me anymore".
> And even though that hurt to realize at the time it also was kind of freeing. Freeing in a sense that it meant it was out of my control to try to fix anymore. I could let it go. I guess for some reason I let that one slip by.
> ...


I like this. It's motivating to people on the edge. That there is life out there. That there is so much for you if you let go the things that no longer are.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

treyvion said:


> So you used it to raise your "rank". How long did that take and was it noticeable on the difference it made in your life?


Probably 3-4 months before others started noticing. Regular comments from others. Made the wife "uncomfortable" she said I was making plans for a new life without her. 

Looks like she's right.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

2yearsago said:


> Probably 3-4 months before others started noticing. Regular comments from others. Made the wife "uncomfortable" she said I was making plans for a new life without her.
> 
> Looks like she's right.


Yeah. Boo fvcking hoo. Typical words of a miserable cheating narcissist.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> Yeah. Boo fvcking hoo. Typical words of a miserable cheating narcissist.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Lol, gave me a laugh, thanks.

Yeah I've been hearing for the last year how I have some "prospects" lined up, I'm ready to move on, yada yada.

It's part of her shaming technique that I have recognized and have become aware of. It used to make me feel bad because I didn't realize that's what she was doing, trying to shame me.

Awareness....awareness.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> Yeah. Boo fvcking hoo. Typical words of a miserable cheating narcissist.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It may have been causing her physical pain, because it was upsetting the reality she had spun. He wasn't supposed to be desireable to others.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

A good friend of mine told me about Avoidant personality. I looked it up. Whoa. My wife shows a lot of these characteristics. Circular arguments, low self esteem, victim mentality, learned helplessness, etc. Many characteristics that played into my fix it nice guy mentality to want to make it all better. Either that or she's a master manipulator which I think there's a good chance of.

Either way, got to finish kicking the nice gut to the curb.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

2yearsago said:


> I really got into NMMNG summer of last year. Read NNSLP as well, got some out of that.
> 
> NMMNG hit me....hard. I worked on myself a lot utilizing the principles in this book Even though I've rocked the boat on my marriage, i still haven't left.
> 
> ...


Do yourself a favor... don't think of yourself as being the one "pulling the trigger"; instead, think of yourself as the exhausted fireman who no longer sees the point in throwing bucket after bucket of water onto an old, condemned building that's been burning for days... and *especially* since your wife keeps lobbing gasoline at it.

Just back away and let it burn.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> Do yourself a favor... don't think of yourself as being the one "pulling the trigger"; instead, think of yourself as the exhausted fireman who no longer sees the point in throwing bucket after bucket of water onto an old, condemned building that's been burning for days... and *especially* since your wife keeps lobbing gasoline at it.
> 
> Just back away and let it burn.


Great way to look at it, thank you.

That pretty much sums it up. It's about letting go of control. Knowing I can't do anything. Lord knows I've tried and hung in there but to no avail.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

So today, her now knowing that you could move on without her, she having lost her magic power of charm to keep you, what has she done to keep you form moving on....because i tell you that many spouses rely on the fact that maintaining status quo or doing just enough to keep the other spouse interested is usually the game plan, with the expectation that you would rather stay then take up the challenge of the unknown. And truth in fact (you need only read many of these stories here) they do stay.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Xenote said:


> So today, her now knowing that you could move on without her, she having lost her magic power of charm to keep you, what has she done to keep you form moving on....because i tell you that many spouses rely on the fact that maintaining status quo or doing just enough to keep the other spouse interested is usually the game plan,


And once you realize this, you have to make sure that they know that you can and will move on.



Xenote said:


> with the expectation that you would rather stay then take up the challenge of the unknown. And truth in fact (you need only read many of these stories here) they do stay.


People stay for far too long, often we hear a large number of years quoted like 20 years. Everyone regrets giving up that much of their life in the end.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

treyvion said:


> And once you realize this, you have to make sure that they know that you can and will move on.
> 
> 
> 
> People stay for far too long, often we hear a large number of years quoted like 20 years. Everyone regrets giving up that much of their life in the end.


I'm already kicking myself for waiting as long as I have. Once you know it inside and I'm finally able to trust myself it's time. Part of my ongoing frustration is ramming my head into the wall trying to make it better over and over and over.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

2yearsago said:


> I'm already kicking myself for waiting as long as I have. Once you know it inside and I'm finally able to trust myself it's time. Part of my ongoing frustration is ramming my head into the wall trying to make it better over and over and over.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think you must have overlooked the part in MMSLP where he says that if the other person won't change and the situation is unacceptable, then you have to end it.


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## 2yearsago (Jun 28, 2013)

technovelist said:


> I think you must have overlooked the part in MMSLP where he says that if the other person won't change and the situation is unacceptable, then you have to end it.


Lol, no. Getting more wasn't really my game plan. It's more along the NMMNG vein of not being a good ender. I'm working on it!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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