# Karma Police



## Devonshire (Feb 11, 2013)

I'll try to make this as short and entertaining as possible for the readers out there. 
My wife and I have been married for nearly 8 years. For much of our marriage I have had an ongoing issue with her lack of affection and support. Several times she has put me down or insulted me; failed to compliment me; showed no affection; etc.
As a result, I felt unloved and made a mistake contacting my very first girlfriend from gradeschool online. We had an online thing for a while and met in person a few times. 
I left my email open one day and she caught me and was devistated. She gave me another chance and although I felt (and still feel) that I acted as I did for a legitimate reason, I knew it was still wrong and I hated that I hurt her. 
We ended up moving far away from that person and we moved on. a year later she recontacted me. I was caught again before it went past some emails. 
I havent talked to her in two years now and have no desire to. I assume she moved on as well. 
My wife and I continued having the same issues though. I offered to set up counselling many times and she refused. I guess she got tired of the same argument and me complaining of being unhappy and started telling me we shouldnt be together if I was so unhappy. ..blamed how she treated me on what she had learned from her parents.

I wasnt willing to give up because I loved her. ..and because we had two children together. 

Having pointed out her flaws, I think it's only fair I point out her qualities. She was always faithful and trusting, even after I broke her turst. She followed me across the country and stayed with me even when things were difficult between us as well as financially. She was always a great mother. We never really argued except when affection issues came up. It was like living with a roommate.

I had told her years ago when arguing about compliments/affection that if she was incapable of it, then I wouldn't do it either. Sure a compliment or two slipped out now and then from me, but I avoided doing it when I could because it made me feel so stupid when she was on the spot and didnt compliment me back. 

Fast forward to about 2 weeks ago. I picked up her cell phone to put the babysitter's phone number into her contacts and the phone was locked. Its never locked. She was sitting there with me so I asked her why and she shrugged it off, explaining that her friend at work has same phone and when she saw hers locked she decided to try it too. 
I didnt think too much of it. She unlocked it and I entered phone number. 
She had posted a pic of her and our daughter on facebook earlier that day so I then went into hr album to see if there were any additional of them that she hadnt posted. The first pic in the album was one of her in the mirror topless. 
Let me stop and say my stomach is turning into knots reliving this as I write it.
I asked her what the pic was and she insisted it was for me but she forgot to send it. Of course I was suspicious.
There wasnt much I could prove, so I kept it in the back of my mind and just started keeping an eye open.
I noticed she was being very sneaky with her phone, turning screen away from me, leaving it on silent when it never was before...
We started arguing about itevery day for 3 or 4 days. She was accusing me of not trusting her and insisted nothing was happening, still refusing to unlock her phone. 
I figured out her code and snuck onto her phone frequently but could never find anything so I started thinking I WAS being crazy and felt terrible. Still though something wasn't right.

I mentioned how I heard a coworker's husband put an app on her phone that retreived all deleted texts and her face dropped. Later that night she admitted that I wasnt crazy; that there was a guy from work and she had feelings for him.

I was really hurt, but honestly, I was also kind of relieved that I wasnt crazy. 

She said she knew it was wrong and promised right away to stop texting him. She text'd in front of me to him saying she loved her husband and couldnt talk to him anymore. He responded quickly with "ok. back to reality. i wish you luck".

She promised to keep me updated with what happened at work and if he continued to text.

I took that as a sign we needed to seriously fix our marriage once and for all and she agreed. She changed alot over the next week. she was affectionate, sweet, loving... I was over-the-top sweet and did all i could for her. I wrote her a letter nearly every day, I did her favors, I surprised her with gifts... One night i cut out 30 hearts from paper and wrote a thing I love about her on each and hid them all over the house for her to find.

we had a setback one day though when I offered to come see her on lunch and she clearly didnt want me to. I went from a time issue, to a relaxing instead issue, to a not wanting to leave work on lunch issue, to a 'i need time alone to miss you issue'. I was hurt by that and started thinking something was wrong.

Soon after I found out she was still talking to him. 

I cant even remember right now how I found out, but it involved asking her a billion questions, getting lied to a billion times, and then texting and calling him and getting a different version which was also full of lies.

What it boiled down to is that they met outside of work twice and made out in his car. She swears up and down that she didnt sleep with him. I tend to believe her on that, though it was difficult. 

What was really difficult was learning that the 2nd make out session was the night after I hid her all the hearts.
I had called her when she was getting out of work and told her I had the kids in the bath so we could have a moment alone when she got home. She told me she had to stay late. 
I ended up having to get the kids out and ready for bed long before she got home. 
She wasnt staying late though, she was making out with him in his car.

So now my issue is this..... How do I move past this?
She is now apologetic and full of regret. she promises (again) she wont talk to him or text him. She says it was wrong and she was stupid. She is again being loving and caring and affectionate. 

She is really trying, but part of me is worried she is reacting to the guilt of being caught. Will this last?
How do I stop asking questions about every detail?

She was on her days off the last two days and this morning she goes back to work with him. She has offered to look for a new job, but until then they will be working side by side. 

How do I not go crazy?

I believe that she wants to avoid him now and work on us. I really do, but I also believe that he won't give up that easily. I ended up reading their texts between each other and I can clearly see he is the one who suggested everything along the way and she went along with it. 

How do I know that won't continue?

To be completely honest, I'm scared. Feeling like I was going to lose her when she first told me about him really opened my eyes. I admit we have taken each other for granted for far too long. When I look at her now I am so amazed by her beauty and how much I really love her. That's what scares me. 
With her affection issues I don't want to go over the top again. 

So far she has been matching my affection the last few days but I am afraid it won't last. She says she is sorry almost hourly and says she wants to grow old with me.

One last issue is that I tried to get info out of her about his girlfriend so I could inform her of what happened and she wouldnt tell me. She says its because she just wants to move on, but to me, she is protecting him. 

I found her on facebook myself and am waiting for her to message me back. 

I really am in love with my wife and I need to figure out a way to fix this marriage. Please help!


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

Welcome to the forum, im sorry you find yourself here, hang in there, try and be objective when people here offer advice, it may be hard to hear, but the members of this forum have a great deal of combined first hand experience with infidelity and how to cope/deal/stop it.

So, first things first. As counter intuitive as it may sound at the moment, you must be fully ready to loose your marriage and walk away from the woman you love in order to save it/her. If your wife is not forced to face major consequences(divorce) for her betrayal, she will have no reason to stop doing it.

You must immidiatley, as in when you wake up in the morning, begin gathering hard evidence and have ways to monitor/verify what she is telling you. Her words can not be trusted at the moment, only her actions count. Go to best buy or walmart when you wake up and buy a few VARs (voice activated recorders) use velcroe or some other method to secure one to the underside of the drivers seat of her car, or any other place (under the dash/steering column) that will keep it out of sight but allow it to record her conversations while she drives.

Visit and research Mobile Spy (www.mobile-spy.com) and find a way to get the software installed on her phone without her knowledge. You basically need to verify if she will honor her promises to you about not contacting the OM, and have the ability to see if she is taking the affair underground (burner phone, etc)

Edit incoming: (sorry on my phone, submitted unfinished reply)

If she uses a computer at home install some type of monitoring software/keylogger to make sure she is not using social media innapropriatley.

Read the threads on this site about No Contact agreements/letters and exposure of affairs.

Can she get a transfer away from the place she works now to somewhere else? If the OM is in the picture in any way, you will not stand much of a chance. She should be willing to leave her job and find a new one to help you recover from her infidelity.

Since she admitted to kissing this guy, odds are, they have had sex, please go get tested for STDs as soon as possible, no joke here. Until you are able to 100% verify her honesty and transparency, spend less time focusing on being nice to her, and more time being nice to yourself. Go get a nice shave somewhere, hit the gym, don't pine/hover over her. Self improvement is always a plus, and will add to your mystery/appeal in her eyes. Maybe go to a few extra individual counseling sessions for yourself to gain some outside perspective/insight. 

That's all I have time for at the moment, you will get more advice from people who know what they are talking about as the day progresses. I will try and update my post when I have a bit more time. Best of luck to you.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Do as Paladin advises, you probably have a good chance to save your marriage. 

Prepare for it being hard to follow the advice, but do it anyway.


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## Devonshire (Feb 11, 2013)

thanks for the reply, Paladin. I did already install sms tracking app on her phone. she hasnt called or textd (nor has he) since I confronted them. I didnt think he would on the weekend anyway. We will see what happens starting today when she goes back to work.
She did agree to find a new job, but was at first unwilling to transfer to another location (even though some are closer to the house). I thought that was strange but she says its because he friends there. ..though now has agreed to quit once new job is found.
As far as sex, I read all their texts, there is mention of kissing, but no sex. ..And during the time they were talking, she was on her time of the month so I'm pretty confident she didnt sleep with him.
I have started working out and just went and got a haircut and bought a few new clothes so I have taken your advise on that end.

Thanks again for the reply.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

> I suggest you start reading these
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/24796-just-let-them-go.html
> 
> ...


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

She is protecting him. make her tell his gf what happened. Make it a necessary point for reconciliation. And finally, they probably had texts. If it is a smart phone, you can retrieve the texts,. Install a GPS tracker on her car. Place a VAR in her car, check her phone records.


And most likely they had sex. Are they teenagers or what ? Wait for the trickle truth to hit you. next she will confess to oral and then they had sex once but she stopped in the middle and finally, the truth that they were having sex for quite a long time. Check her card for any hotel charges(need not be room charges only)

She might also have a 2nd phone she is hiding from you


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## Devonshire (Feb 11, 2013)

I dont want to sound unappreciative at all. I really look forward to advice and replies, but alot of doom and gloom here already.
First off, to Jasel... that advise sounds alot like going back to how we were before this incident and I believe that's what led to it (I know that's why I did what I did). 
I think we need to be able to show we love each other and be on the same page instead of me trying to be distant and acting like I am able to move on.

to warlock, I did retrieve their texts and am actively checking it. I can see who she texts, emails, where she is located, etc. and they have only been calling/texting for about 2 weeks now total. I checked back to when she first started the job there.

You're right about the trickle of truth though. First it was just talking, then it was one kiss, then it was two kisses, then it was two makeout sessions but no touching, then it was him trying to touch her and her stopping him....
But I don't think they had sex due to her being on her time of month the two times they met (per texts)


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Take this to the bank: If she admitted to kissing, they had sex in some form; oral or masturbation, if not full intercourse. My personal feeling is that if you can confirm a physical affair, dump her, she is not worth having as a wife.

The sad thing is you didn't go nuclear when you first saw the evidence. The other mistake you made is that when your wife said don't show up for lunch, you listened to her. That alarms should have been going off all over the place! Why did you listen to her? You should have shown up anyway!

I would demand that she leave her job now and not wait and I would report them both to her company's human resource department. Talk to her family, your family and all your friends and let them know what she did .. that she is having an affair. Continue to pursue finding his girlfriend. In fact have your wife get the information for you. If she declines, ask her to leave. She is either in this with you or out. and most all all DON'T BE AFRAID!

What you did with your ex-gf was wrong and inexcusable, but this is far worse. Has she said this is a revenge affair? Take action now.


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

Unfortunately what you are getting now is trickle truth. She is not truly remorseful because she only acts sorry when caught. She only came clean when you told her about the text retrieval app. First she admits feelings, then she admits meeting but no sex. If you keep digging you will probably find that she is indeed having a PA with him.

Sorry you are here, but you'll find this board full of the same trickle truth scenarios and they pretty much all end in the BS finding out that their WS was having a sexual affair.

I would continue investigating as much as possible.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

Also, consider the possibility that the OM has much experience with married coworkers, and is coaching your W on how not to get caught. That is why you're finding nothing on her phone or the computer.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Keep in mind there's a lot of ways to communicate besides SMS and standard phone calls. There's tons of apps for most smart phones that allow voice and text communication, and will leave no trace on her cell.

C


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## Devonshire (Feb 11, 2013)

middleman, 
thanks for the reply. I dont want to sound like I'm making excuses, but if she quits now, which she said she would do if I wanted, we wont be able to afford our rent and will be on the street.
I really wish she never had to go back. when she goes to work this morning I will be in complete hell. 
I didnt go to lunch with her that day because we have one vehicle right now. I considered taking a cab there with the kids, but I didn't. I'm kicking myself for it now.


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## Devonshire (Feb 11, 2013)

f102 and pbear, I've searched her phone for such apps. I'll look again for any voice to text apps. 
They werent too good at hiding it for the two weeks they were talking. I don't think they would be able to go pro that quickly. 

I am still searching though and will know if any more warning signs pop up..wont ignore them this time. thanks


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

If I had found this board in January 2010 (the first time I began to have suspicions) I *might* have stopped my wife's affair that had been in full swing for 3 months at that point.

If I had found this board anytime between then and March 2012 I could maybe also have stopped it.

If I had found this board on March 8th, first DDay when she insisted nothing physical had happened, I might have prevented her returning to him after a brief pause.

I didn't because I wasn't looking. I trusted the stbxw implicitly. "She would never do that". "She doesn't have time". "She's too paranoid about HIV and STDs". "She is too self conscious". "She's too honest".

I found this board around June 2012 - 6 weeks after Dday 2.

Everything I was told was true - apart from being told she was still having an affair (as far as I can tell).

The point is, you don't believe because you are conditioned not to. The person you probably trusted above all others (maybe with the exception of siblings and parents) has done you over. She didn't care about you, or your children.

You are getting what is known as a "2x4" and it isn't a nice place to be - but you aren't in a nice place and it's about to get a lot less nice.

Follow the advice here, or don't. Your call.

I can only go from my experience in that listening to the advice on here can save a *lot* of time, pain and heartache.

Good luck.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Devonshire said:


> middleman,
> thanks for the reply. I dont want to sound like I'm making excuses, but if she quits now, which she said she would do if I wanted, we wont be able to afford our rent and will be on the street.
> I really wish she never had to go back. when she goes to work this morning I will be in complete hell.
> I didnt go to lunch with her that day because we have one vehicle right now. I considered taking a cab there with the kids, but I didn't. I'm kicking myself for it now.


I feel for you and your predicament, I really do, but unless you get tough and stop being afraid of what will happen if you take the necessary actions, this guy is going to continue to fvck your wife (making out in his car my ass) and she'll continue to serve you cream pies at home. Yes, I'm being harsh, but you need to hear it this way! Frankly, I would throw her out now. She's not cooperating with you and has no intention of giving up her lover.

BTW: Are you a stay at home dad?

*EDIT:*
You need to get vicious about this. You didn't respond about the exposure. Have you exposed this? To their HR department? To Family? To Friends? If she continues to protect him you have to go after him more. Tell her she must give you the info on his GF or you will leave her and the kids (as hard as this is, you have to) because that will put her in a bind. You are being way too passive.


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## Devonshire (Feb 11, 2013)

midleman, no i work nights, and before you assume that he's in my house while I'm away at work, let me assure you i'm confident he isnt.
I realize that in most cases these signs point to them having had sex but I'm confident they've only been talking for two weeks and I was able to catch it before it progressed to that. i can tell from recovered texts when they started texting, when they met, for how long, and general idea of what happened. Plus, like i said, the two nights they met briefly, she was on her time of the month and its unlikely she would be with someone new during that.

I do realize that it was headed in that direction though. 

As for exposure, I did talk to her about it again this morning. She has obvious reasons not to want it exposed..whether it be protecting him, keeping relationship alive, or just being ashamed. ..but either way I know I am going to tell his girlfriend. I managed to find her on facebook on my own and am waiting for her to write back.
I did threaten to contact hr at her job but I secretly was worried about her not being able to transfer out if being investigated. and can't afford for her just to quit.


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## Devonshire (Feb 11, 2013)

and i did tell her I needed her to tell her mom and she said she would. waiting for a time when i am home to hear the conversation


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

Devonshire said:


> I dont want to sound unappreciative at all. I really look forward to advice and replies, but alot of doom and gloom here already.


The best advice you will get will be the ones you don’t want to hear. The reality is that affairs are like drug addictions and as such not easy to end. Regardless of how she is acting today she will get tempted in the future and odds are she will “relapse”. Very common.

Another thing is that you can’t let fear motivate you. Sometimes in order to save a marriage you have to be prepared to end it. Fear of losing her will make you an enabler. She needs to fear losing you.

You’ve gotten good advice so far but I would also start researching how to D in your area and don’t be secret about it. Let her know you are just looking at your options in case things go that way. This should cause her to fear losing you and that anxiety should help offset some of her feeling for the OM. If she has any positive feelings towards him (she shouldn’t since he’s cheating on a gf and is trying to hook up with a married woman) then your M is at risk. She has to basically hate him before you can truly R.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Devonshire said:


> midleman, no i work nights, and before you assume that he's in my house while I'm away at work, let me assure you i'm confident he isnt.
> I realize that in most cases these signs point to them having had sex but I'm confident they've only been talking for two weeks and I was able to catch it before it progressed to that. i can tell from recovered texts when they started texting, when they met, for how long, and general idea of what happened. Plus, like i said, the two nights they met briefly, she was on her time of the month and its unlikely she would be with someone new during that.
> 
> I do realize that it was headed in that direction though.
> ...


Your wife is in an affair....right now. It isn't over and it doesn't matter whether they have had sex or not. Making out with him means they have had physical contact. So she is engaging in a PA. For a woman especially once they cross that threshold its on. Trust me, I used to do this a lot. As long as she is having any contact with him they are still in the affair. It doesn't matter if they are texting or not. If she sees him in work she is getting the jollies in her brain. Its called dopamine and its the sex drug that gets released between lovers. Until she is no longer working with him they are still in an affair and you cannot even start reconciliation of your marriage. There are many cases on this board of wives that were caught before they had full blown sex, promised to end the contact and work on the marriage, and then ended up having sex with the guy after D-Day. You are in this spot right now. If she doesn't quit her job she will have sex with him although I think its likely they already have. You need to make a choice, your marriage or her job. Its really that simple.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

She doesn't need the phone to text him, she works with him. So stop wasting time on the phone.

They had sex. She was sending him naked photos. You don't go there is all you've done is kiss. They had sex. 

She's continuing the affair. She's still protecting him, and playing you with a little more attention, sex, and promises.

She is still in the affair, and she has warned him that you know and might try to contact his GF.

IF you want the marriage to have any chance at all.

1. She leaves the job today. Not someday. not in two weeks. Today. each day she sees him the affair continues.

2. Do not tell her anything more about going after the GF. But find the GF and tell her. Use spokeo and get a phone number and an address. both call and send a letter. Let her know your wife and OM had sex in his car.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Devonshire said:


> As for exposure, I did talk to her about it again this morning. She has obvious reasons not to want it exposed..whether it be protecting him, keeping relationship alive, or just being ashamed. ..but either way I know I am going to tell his girlfriend. I managed to find her on facebook on my own and am waiting for her to write back.
> I did threaten to contact hr at her job but I secretly was worried about her not being able to transfer out if being investigated. and can't afford for her just to quit.


She's giving you lots of reasons, and a bunch of promises.

if she was remorseful and wanted to end the affair she would also be acting fast and swift out of fear of loosing you.

Instead she's throwing promises, a lot of talk, and a little sex at you to put you off the scent.

btw - if she may also get a burner phone.


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## Devonshire (Feb 11, 2013)

army of juan, thanks for the reply. I have talked about going to get d papers. I will look further into it and let her know. that sounds like good advice. ...even if it is just in case she cant stop talking to him. 
i agree that she has to start hating him. I think me telling his girlfriend and him at least assuming she is the one who gave me the info on her is a step in that direction. ..or perhaps it will make him dislike her.


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## Devonshire (Feb 11, 2013)

shaggy, i would LOVE to tell her she quits today, but we seriously wont be able to pay rent at the end of the month if she does and will be homeless with no family anywhere near us. 
I really wish that were an option. 
maybe I'm being naive but I believe that she is sorry and wishes she could take it back. I also know that she gave me the same benefit of the doubt when the roles were reversed. 
At the same time I realize she cant keep working with the guy. based on his texts I can assume he wont give up that easily. He was the initiator in each incident. 
I have located his gf on facebook. I'm waiting for her to reply to my message asking her to contact me. If she doesnt I will still send message detailing what they did


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Devonshire said:


> shaggy, i would LOVE to tell her she quits today, but we seriously wont be able to pay rent at the end of the month you'll lose the apartment when you divorce anyway right? if she does and will be homeless with no family anywhere near us.
> I really wish that were an option.
> maybe I'm being naive yes you are but I believe that she is sorry and wishes she could take it back. then why did she do it more than once? I also know that she gave me the same benefit of the doubt when the roles were reversed. and you didn't end the affair the first time did you?
> At the same time I realize she cant keep working with the guy. based on his texts I can assume he wont give up that easily. He was the initiator in each incident. she was putting out signals that she was receptive
> I have located his gf on facebook. I'm waiting for her to reply to my message asking her to contact me. If she doesnt I will still send message detailing what they did quickly


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## Devonshire (Feb 11, 2013)

bfree,no i didnt end it right away...well, i did..but she recontacted me a year later. so I know there's a good chance he will try again. 

I do realize she was putting out those signals. Im not only blaming him. 
why did she do it more than once? 
ill tell you how she explained it:
first time she felt bad but liked it and i saw text to him the day after telling him thinking about their kissing gave her shivers (which was a huge blow to me as you can imagine). 
...didnt seem like she regretted it much first time. But that was before we decided to work on each other. She textd him that they had to stop and there were no calls or texts for about a week when he textd her while they were both at work asking her to come to his desk before she left.
I confirmed all this when reading their texts.
she did (which i hate) go to his desk and he asked her to meet him to talk in parking lot after work. once there he asked her into his car and it happened again. 
She said she kept thinking it was wrong and wanted to say no. she was only with him about 15 min based on goodbye text and when she called me. 
having said all that, i do think its very possible it would still be happening if not caught by me


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

You don't think she still feels the shivers from their kiss now? I hope you aren't that naive. Your old AP may have contacted you but you resumed contact with her. When this guy contacts your wife (and he will) you don't think she is going to reciprocate just like you did? He is going to tell her how to communicate better so you won't know about it. He'll feed her some crap line of how they are soulmates and how she shouldn't have stayed with you after you cheated. He'll tell her that she is not affectionate towards you because she isn't meant for you. She's meant for him. He'll tell her she deserves to be happy for once in her life. They WILL resume contact. It will be in a way that you can't monitor. Their affair will continue not because he is a jerk and a player but because she wants it to. Trust me. He is in her head. And while he is there is no room for you. Stop holding her up on a pedestal. She is human and she is going to do the same things you did. That includes resuming the affair and hiding it from you.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I'm worried very worried that you don't see that you have already walked down this path with her.

You've now had 2 ddays. She's now back at the scene of the crime with same guy, same situation, same husband at home.

She's still protecting him. She's still not telling you the full truth because they did have sex at least her giving him oral in the car.

Why are you thinking this plays out any different than before?


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

Mistake #1: Threatening her to expose to to HR. Now she and the OM can "get their stories straight".

Mistake #2: Asking about his GF, thereby alluding that you were going to expose. See Mistake #1.

Mistake #3: Allowing her to tell her mother herself. When and IF she tells her mother, she is going to embellish the story so as to make you look paranoid, jealous, controlling and abusive. Now, you are the "bad guy" in her family's eyes.

Mistake #4: Believing her bland assurances at face value. You must VERIFY. Sure, she can promise you that she will look for another job, never talk to him again, confess to her family, etc., and go thru the motions of being a faithful wife, but, as already pointed out, affairs are like drug addictions. Addicts will lie, cheat, steal, turn their backs on every good influence on their lives and abandon all that is good in their lives to get their next fix.


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## Devonshire (Feb 11, 2013)

shaggy, i just called her and explained again that i cant have her working with him. She said she understood and would put in for transfer today but didnt know if anything was open or not. 
I explained that we cant wait a month for this to happen because most likely he will see her and want to start up relationship again... just as my ex did and i wasnt working with her. 
she agreed that it was a possibility, assured me she wouldnt act on it if he did, and said she will just quit today if i want.
But i cant have her quit today for reasons I already explained.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

Oh, and the fact that she knows that you will be in financial dire straits if she quits? She may very well take full advantage of that. And she said that she "wouldn't act on it" if he tried to initiate? Hmmm...seems that she didn't want to have physical contact with him and "wanted to say no" to him before, and how did that end up?


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

F-102 said:


> Oh, and the fact that she knows that you will be in financial dire straits if she quits? She may very well take full advantage of that.


Ya that's exactly what I was thinking. All she has to say is "I put in for a transfer", not bother doing it, offer to quit knowing full well her husband will say "We can't afford it" and she can keep seeing her boy toy. She probably already has a burner phone at this point too if her OM is coaching her.


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## Devonshire (Feb 11, 2013)

f102, they can get whatever story straight that they want. i have all their texts. ...and it wasnt her that warned him i would expose it to his gf, it was me. I told him myself..I guess i needed some ammo at the time. 
Im sure his gf will believe me and if she doesnt i have the texts to forward on. 
As for HR, if she is tranfering it might be a bad idea. If there are no openings then I will have to do it and hopefully they force a tranfser for one of them. 
As for mistake #3, I explained that it hasnt happened yet because i want to be there for conversation. 
as for mistake #4, I am not taking it at face value. Shes not at work yet today. If she says there are no openings then I told her I will call HR and report it as to force a transfer. 
Shes also applying elsewhere today which I will also verify.


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## ironman (Feb 6, 2013)

Devonshire said:


> He was the initiator in each incident.


First off, I'm sorry for what you're going through Devon. At the same time, I have to throw the yellow flag out on this ...

Women are usually the ones to "pick" which guy they sleep with. Not the other way around. He may have approached her first, but she took one look at him and said OK! And as for her telling you they "just kissed", I have a very hard time believing 2 adults stopped there. The way she protected him makes it appear as if her emotional connection to him is quite deep if you know what I mean ... if they didn't have full-on sex, then they had "Bill Clinton sex".


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## Devonshire (Feb 11, 2013)

f102, believe me, these things went thru my head too. ..and i told her the same things. Its a matter of not believing her and driving myself crazy or trying to believe her and keeping my eyes open i guess.
I dont think she has a burner phone.Ive been with her 24/7 the last two days since they talked last and nothing has come thru on her phone. I suppose its possible he suggests that when she gets to work today, but i just found he deleted his facebook. ..probably to avoid me from finding his girlfriend and telling her. 
Little does he know that when i first found out about this i wnt through his fb and took screenshots of all the females that were poss his gf.
...found him in a photo on one profile whoi also has friends with his last name with matching description so Im sure I have right person now


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## Devonshire (Feb 11, 2013)

ironman, I know. and i asked a billion times about oral which of course she denies. 
my only thought on that in my favor is that i know when we started dating she we didnt pogress to that for a while and shes only met with him twice over a two week period. I've never known her to be that fast...though i suppose its possible. 
There isnt any way to find out unless his gf gets it out of him


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

She quits her job now, right now.

She answers any and all questions you ask honestly including any info she has on the OM's SO.

Her life is now an open book for you, phone, e-mail, everything.

If she balks at any if this don't say a word just have divorce papers served to her and watch her fold.

Then you decide if you want to actually file the papers
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

So you two have had a problem with affection for a long time. Are you absolutley certain this is the first time? 100% certain? 

Doesn't sound like it to me. 

Also, why the HELL have you not exposed?
You expose for several reasons:
One, it wakes your POS WS so she realizes what the hell she is doing. 
Two, it embarrasses her. Think it is a bad idea? Well, now she has a good reason to not do an act to keep you, but she realizes that a lot of people know she is a cheating slvt. So now, she doesn't just have to worry about your eyes catching her. She has to worry about coworkers catching her. Friends catching her. Family catching her. 

Also, you are either extremely gullible (and I have some stock I want to sell to you), or you are beta enough that you won't stop it. You might give us reasons of money, or memories, or other things, but I and a lot of other people on here, won't buy.
How often do cheaters tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Start reading some threads from other BH on this site, and you'll see how many of them discovered the definition of trickle truth in a very hard way.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

When you find out about something like this, you go into fight-or-flight mode. You've gone into flight mode. You have reasons and explanations and excuses for not standing tough, not the least of which is your guilt about your own bad behavior.

You need to get into fight mode. The people here are trying to drag you into it, but you have to start understanding that this is not a matter of carefully weighing options and hedging bets. This is one of those things in life that requires quick, decisive action.

Follow Shaggy's and others advice - no contact, no ifs, ands or buts; the truth about the A, no more trickle truth (you can bet they've had sex); expose to everyone - don't wait for OMGF to get back to you - send her a complete message asap; anything other than a clear, unequivocal, immediate commitment from your W to you and your marriage equals your filing for divorce.

Listen to Chris989 - Listen and follow his advice.


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## ironman (Feb 6, 2013)

Devonshire said:


> i asked a billion times about oral which of course she denies.
> my only thought on that in my favor is that i know when we started dating she we didnt pogress to that for a while and shes only met with him twice over a two week period. I've never known her to be that fast...though i suppose its possible.
> There isnt any way to find out unless his gf gets it out of him


You're right, there's no way to know unless one of them confesses. And I know this isn't what you want to hear, but in my experience married women were always the aggressors and "easier" than the unmarried ones. 

I think it stems from the fact that their perceived "opportunities" are fewer and far between due to their spending more time in the "married environment" .. so they move faster to "seal the deal" when they see an opportunity.

You know your wife, so you're the final authority here. But don't let your memory of the way your wife behaved in the past cloud your judgement for how she's acting in the present. 

Just my 2 cents.


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## Devonshire (Feb 11, 2013)

alte, I believe they didnt have sex. first of all their two meetings were about an hour combined. I know this based on when she told him she left work, when she called me, when she arrived home, them texting goodbye, etc. 
...and the two times they met, i know for a fact she was on her time of the month. Are there any women here who will confirm that she wouldnt sleep with a new guy for the first time during that time??
I see that as very unlikely.
I do think it would have happened eventually.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Devonshire said:


> As for exposure, I did talk to her about it again this morning. She has obvious reasons not to want it exposed..whether it be protecting him, keeping relationship alive, or just being ashamed. ..but either way I know I am going to tell his girlfriend. I managed to find her on facebook on my own and am waiting for her to write back. I did threaten to contact hr at her job but I secretly was worried about her not being able to transfer out if being investigated. and can't afford for her just to quit.


Dude, why are you even asking her about exposure? Seriously? Fvck what she thinks ... call her parents and let them know what their child has become. You don't ask for permission to expose, you just do it. Glad to see you've contacted the POSOM's girlfriend. Hope this has an effect.



Devonshire said:


> Plus, like i said, the two nights they met briefly, she was on her time of the month and its unlikely she would be with someone new during that.
> 
> I do realize that it was headed in that direction though.


If you say so, I'm not as trusting. Take some time to read around here and see some of the threads from husbands who thought they had the situation under control or didn't want to push or embarrass their wives about their "affairs", mostly out of fear of losing them. Those guys came back here saying "boy you guys were right" because their wives have left them for the OM, or were continuing the affair or were traumatized because they were making love in another guy's jizz. Harsh words, I know ... but the only guys that seem to be successful at preventing physical affairs or reclaiming their wives from physical or emotional affairs are the ones who are not afraid to take hard action quickly. Don't be one of the losers.

Good Luck my friend,, I think you are going to need it


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Oral sex is still possible even if she is on her period. 

Mention a polygraph to her when the finances are better.(give her a chance to come clean with any other half truths she might have forgotten. Give her a day to make a final story. But if you find out anything different after her final version, you will divorce her immediately. It will also give her time to think if she is reconciling just out of guilt)


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Devonshire said:


> alte, I believe they didnt have sex. first of all their two meetings were about an hour combined. I know this based on when she told him she left work, when she called me, when she arrived home, them texting goodbye, etc.
> ...and the two times they met, i know for a fact she was on her time of the month. Are there any women here who will confirm that she wouldnt sleep with a new guy for the first time during that time??
> I see that as very unlikely.
> I do think it would have happened eventually.


OK, fair enough. Let's say for the sake of argument that the physical didn't happen. You still need to take quick action now to make sure that this does not go any further. Quick!


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Devonshire said:


> She did agree to find a new job, but *was at first unwilling to transfer to another locatio*n (even though some are closer to the house). I thought that was strange but s*he says its because he friends there*. ..though now has agreed to quit once new job is found.
> As far as sex, I read all their texts, there is mention of kissing, but no sex. ..And during the time they were talking, she was on her time of the month so I'm pretty confident she didnt sleep with him.
> I have started working out and just went and got a haircut and bought a few new clothes so I have taken your advise on that end.
> 
> Thanks again for the reply.


New jobs a must. She must wuit tomorrow morning. Period. No barganing.
She can't stay si by side with the man she made out (I don't buy this, the sealed the deal) just last week. As you are perfectly aware it's addictive: she's in drugs right now, she already had a relapse, she can't afford a new one. They will talk about everrything, what's going on, how to go underground. Remember how sneaky you were.
To me it's a dealbreaker, the job thing.
She need to ask the transfer TODAY and get all the days off she can (vacations, faking illness, family emergency... whatever) TODAY. Don't allow her to go to OMs for a single more day. She sit with you TODAY job hunting.

On her back put yourself on PI mode, go low key but snoop like a crazy man for the next following months. Don't believe a word out of her mouth; keylogger, spyware, VARs, GPS...


Find out GF TODAY.

Hang in there.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Devonshire said:


> f102, believe me, these things went thru my head too. ..and i told her the same things. Its a matter of not believing her and driving myself crazy or trying to believe her and keeping my eyes open i guess.
> I dont think she has a burner phone.*Ive been with her 24/7 the last two days since they talked last and nothing has come thru on her phone.* I suppose its possible he suggests that when she gets to work today, but i just found he deleted his facebook. ..probably to avoid me from finding his girlfriend and telling her.
> Little does he know that when i first found out about this i wnt through his fb and took screenshots of all the females that were poss his gf.
> ...found him in a photo on one profile whoi also has friends with his last name with matching description so Im sure I have right person now


Where I have highlighted - doesn't that make you think that is proof that she *does* have a burner phone? 

I hope, really honestly hope, that you are right Devonshire. Just be careful and assume the absolute worst case scenario. You'll most likely be correct I'm afraid:

Plan for the worst and hope for the best.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Dev,

Let's say you're right and they haven't had sex. You do realize that if (when) they do it makes saving your marriage 1000x harder. Shouldn't you be doing everything to stop that? Your half a$$ing things right now. Get off the pot and take action.


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## Devonshire (Feb 11, 2013)

acabado, thanks!


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## Devonshire (Feb 11, 2013)

chris, no because she told him not to text while shes not at work when she first gave her number and looking at texts he did only once asking her to come meet him on her lunch and she sais she couldnt


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Devonshire said:


> Plus, like i said, the two nights they met briefly, she was on her time of the month and its unlikely she would be with someone new during that.


Being on her period doesn't stop her from giving him a BJ. And you sound awfully naive if you don't know that people do have sex during menstrual cycles.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Devonshire said:


> chris, no because she told him not to text while shes not at work when she first gave her number and looking at texts he did only once asking her to come meet him on her lunch and she sais she couldnt


So you're trusting her because she told him not to text her?


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Ok Devonshire, I hope you appreciate the replies aren't driven by any desire to "only see the worst" or make things worse for you - it's with an honest intention to prevent you from maybe making the mistakes I - and others - already did!

It does sound like you might have caught this in time. I hope so. Be firm and stay frosty!

Edit:/

_Apologies, I just re read your original post. Not that my opinion counts for a hill of beans as they say, but I missed the going back to him and lying bit.

I think she's in deep and that you're missing something._


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

One of my best friends always used to tell atheists "If you are right and there is no God then my believing doesn't hurt. But if I am right and there is a God, boy are you in trouble."

Dev, always go on the assumption that it is worse than you think it is. If its not, you look like a man of action and she'll respect the hell out of you. If it is, then you might just be able to save your marriage before it goes too far.


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## Devonshire (Feb 11, 2013)

count, i know sex during menstral cycle is possible but not likely for first time with someone new.


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## Devonshire (Feb 11, 2013)

bfree,no im saying he doesnt text when shes at home anyway. ive checked


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Devonshire said:


> bfree,no im saying he doesnt text when shes at home anyway. ive checked


There are other ways to communicate without texting. Does she play games on her phone? Does she use Facebook or a Facebook app? There is even a chat feature as part of a crossword puzzle app. She can even install the app, use it to communcate and then delete it before you look at her phone. A fWS on TAM told us about that little trick. What I'm trying to tell you is there are many ways for them to communicate and if you are relying on her word then you are in trouble.


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## Devonshire (Feb 11, 2013)

bfree,ive been checking for all those things as often as humanley possible. havent found anything. plus, you can kind of get a feel how their relationship is prgressing via texts. there werent any big jumps in progression. It flowed normally. 
Plus, ive known her for about 11 years. I can tell when shes being sneaky. i could tell when she was sneaking on her phone and i caught her. it has stopped..for now


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Devonshire said:


> bfree,ive been checking for all those things as often as humanley possible. havent found anything. plus, you can kind of get a feel how their relationship is prgressing via texts. there werent any big jumps in progression. It flowed normally.
> Plus, ive known her for about 11 years. I can tell when shes being sneaky. i could tell when she was sneaking on her phone and i caught her. it has stopped..for now


Then how do you reconcile her "making out" with him a second time .... after getting caught the first time? Did you think she was being sneaky then? Throw out whatever you knew about her in the past, it doesn't apply any more. Consider her a drug addict looking for her next fix, which can only be provided by the OM and she'll do anything to get it

Also what do you mean by "I've been checking for all those things as often as *humanely* possible?" I mean .... what does "Humanely" have anything to do with trying to keep your wife from sleeping with another guy? When she comes home tonight you have to tell her that if you find out she even looked in his direction again, you are going to leave her. When she sees your serious, it's the only way she is going to snap out of this. Right now she can do anything she wants to with the OM and she sees no consequences to it.


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## ironman (Feb 6, 2013)

Devonshire said:


> bfree,ive been checking for all those things as often as humanley possible. havent found anything. plus, you can kind of get a feel how their relationship is prgressing via texts. there werent any big jumps in progression. It flowed normally.
> Plus, ive known her for about 11 years. I can tell when shes being sneaky. i could tell when she was sneaking on her phone and i caught her. it has stopped..for now


*All of this monitoring seems almost pointless if they continue to work together. Talk about a glaring loophole!* I read your reasoning as to why she must keep the job, but surely there is some alternative living/working arrangement you can come to. It boils down to what is more important: your current financial situation or your marriage?

Are you seriously going to let your wife continue to spend time with a man who wants to nail her (and whom she seems to be eager for)? This will end badly unless you remove her from that environment immediately ... that is if it isn't already too late.

This is a marital emergency, man! Act appropriately.


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## terrence4159 (Feb 3, 2013)

sorry devonshire but just cause her monthly visitor came to visit does not mean anything. if i wanted to have sex with a woman i dont care about that. for him and her its the thrill they really dont care.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Dev
Have her write out everything that happened. At work, at lunch, in the car. EVERYTHING. 

Go over it with her. Let her you your trust has been shaken and it will take a while to regain it. Let her know that if there is ANYTHING left out of the timeline you will be forced to divorce. 

After she writes out the timeline. Keep it in a safe place. As you read it ask questions and be sure there is no wiggle room for her to say "Oh, I didn't know you wanted to know that. " or "I forgot"

As for the OMGF, forget about fb contact. By now OM has told her there is a jealous husband accusing everyone at work. Even he was accused so he deleted the fb acct. He will suggest she do the same or not respond to you.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Devonshire said:


> ironman, I know. and i asked a billion times about oral which of course she denies.
> my only thought on that in my favor is that i know when we started dating she we didnt pogress to that for a while and shes only met with him twice over a two week period. I've never known her to be that fast...though i suppose its possible.
> There isnt any way to find out unless his gf gets it out of him


So since she lied to you initial, and has in fact lied to you numerous times about this, why do you believe her now? What factual basis do you have to confirm much of anything that she has told you?


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## Devonshire (Feb 11, 2013)

ironman amd others, u will be happy to know i took your advise. I went straigjt home and told my wife, who was supposed to be going to work in an hoir, that i couldnt let her work with him anymore. I demanded she call amd take her personal time off so we have a few days to figure out where she will work next. She did it and they said ok. 
Tomorrow im calling hr and telling them she needs an immediaye transfer
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Good job on this!

The more you show her that you mean business, that you are a decisive man who is in control, the better your chance of coming through this.


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## terrence4159 (Feb 3, 2013)

good job devonshire now make sure you get full transperancy wit hher phone and emails so she cant contact him again


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Be prepared for OM to fish for contact, and be on watch for your wife doing it too. What about the house phone during the day?


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## terrence4159 (Feb 3, 2013)

you will have to be on your toes buddy id say a 95% chance they will try and start up again and will be tougher to catch because they will learn from the last time


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

Sorry I can't buy into all this cloak and dagger (annoying her daily is not going to improve your relationship). There were some serious problems in the marriage, you had an emotional affair, did it again and your wife did something at least as bad. You start checking her three times a day, she will figure it out probably making things worse. For those who suggest consulting a lawyer, that could make sense. 

If you have been going around the country, that wasn't good, and your wife has probably been unhappy in some of these locations. You have to talk about it. 

I'd probably say to her, look let's not have the two of us go crazy with cloak and dagger, if you want to have an affair and see other people, let's separate. We have two children, let's do it on good turns, and you can see who you want. If not, I'll make a commitment to improve myself, to try to work on our marriage, to make sure you have a voice in where we live, be faithful, but you have to pledge the same. 

Bottom line, generally you can figure out if things are going all right or not. If she looks to be continuing an affair, then you don't need all the nastiness people mentioned, (in many states infidelity does not impact financial issues) you simply tell her the marriage is not working, and try to work on making divorce arrangements.


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## Devonshire (Feb 11, 2013)

shaggy, there is no home phone. 

and whomever it was who said to forget facebook contact because he probably already warned her; i told her i have actual texts and details if she needs them. ...so I dont think there will be an issue of her not believing me


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## Devonshire (Feb 11, 2013)

terrence, thanks. It really wasnt that hard to see the suspicious activity this time though,, i just should have been more sure of myself instead of worrying i was being a controlling ****head. 
The signs were all there. I questioned each suspicious activity that came up and later found out i was right each time. both times she met up with him i was at home worrying, not feeling right about something. 
In the future I'll know to trust my instincts.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Dev: We are proud of you. you did the right thing. You must remain vigilant because, unfortunately, this is not over. It's never this easy.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Ok, are you going to re-address your affair once this settles down ?

Do you see double standards on how you dealt with this as compared to your own affair ?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

For yourself you need to get the book or download MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER(its not a sex manual) For you both you need to get NOT JUST FRIENDS, HIS NEEDS HER NEEDS, and LOVE BUSTERS.

aND DON'T WAIT AROUND TO DO IT


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## Devonshire (Feb 11, 2013)

warlock, what do you mean readdress it?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You both need to study this also:

*Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.*


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

Dev, you're doing good-she now knows that you aren't going to roll over and take this.

Dev, I think that when the aftershocks of this wind down, you both need SERIOUS MC.


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## Devonshire (Feb 11, 2013)

*update*
after telling my wife that she cant go back there, she called and got the week off. 
I stuck by inisiting that she call hr and tell them you need a transfer and she finally did tonight and I was there to support her while she did.
They told her they would transfer either her or him by monday to a different location.
I have continued to monitor her phone and she hasnt contacted him but did contact another coworker and told her what happened and how terrible she feels and how much she hurt me.
She is obviously really sorry about it and we both want to move forward.
I apprectiate all the advise I got here.
thanks


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Insisting on no contact is the only way. Good for you.

Now stay on top of things. Don't get complacent. Make sure she's transparent and you're vigilant.

Good luck!


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Dev,

This is really good. By taking definitive action you might have just saved your marriage. :smthumbup:


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

Sounds great, Dev.

But remember Mr. Reagan: "Trust...but verify."


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Well done, man.


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## Devonshire (Feb 11, 2013)

Acabado said:


> Well done, man.


Update....
Wife was moved to another location. She starts again on monday.
His gf is posting random stuff on facebook so i know she got my msgs but never responded.
When wife called work to get the week off he answered phone and was asking her how she is doing. She just said 'i just dont want to be there anymore'. I can tell from that that he wouldnt stop talking to her if she stayed there. 
No other contact between him and wife since and things are good at home with obvious speed bumps with weird triggers.
Thanks again for all the help all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

I think you should give him a call. he is still pursuing her. We see many situations like this on this site that end up bad, real bad.


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## Devonshire (Feb 11, 2013)

warlock07 said:


> I think you should give him a call. he is still pursuing her. We see many situations like this on this site that end up bad, real bad.


..not sure what id say to him if i called him again. He will just deny pursuing her im sure. All hes done is lie to me
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ShootMePlz! (Oct 5, 2008)

I think that talking to him just then is a break in NC!!! She should have just hung up!!!


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## Devonshire (Feb 11, 2013)

shootme, ill give u details... The time she called him to tell him they couldnt talk anymore while i was there, a while ago, she said 'tgis is becky' and he said 'i can tell it is you by your voice'. ..this time when he answered she tried talking in different tone and it worked at first because when she asked to talk to the supervisor he paused and said 'who is calling' snd when she said who he started asking questions and acting concerned. 
I suppose she could have hung up but im not going to be mad about that. She doesnt control who answers the phone. Usually isnt him who answers as i know from calling there myself
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Devonshire (Feb 11, 2013)

update: anyone hear of smithmicro voice to text?

wife got 2 voice msgs using this service around 1 am this morning.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Welcome to TAM, Devonshire. (Cool name, by the way!) I am sorry you have to be here, but glad you found us.

And this is the first time she ever cheated on you, she doesn't know why she did it and so forth.

The problem with many cheaters is that get themselves into a sort of "consequences-lite" mind set.

They need to be disabused of their foggy thinking.
*
Demand a DNA test on your children.* This is *NOT* to establish the DNA of your children (though in some cases this does help) what it is, is a way to establish in the mind of the Wayward Spouse (WS) that they have utterly and completely destroyed your ability to trust in them. "See? Now I can't even believe anything you have ever told me!"

Couples and individual counselling is a must if you are to move things forward to either reconciliation or a divorce.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

Dev, with those 1 a.m. messages, I have a gut feeling that this is FAR from over.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Good she moved

Bad

He knows where she is
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Maybe you should look into putting spy bubble on her phone.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Dev,

Usually the text messages tell the story. She didn't know you were looking at them. If she did, you wouldn't have found out the things you did, they would have been deleted. She wouldn't have made up that they stopped at kissing; she wouldn't even have texted anything about kissing.

A few of things I would like to point out, however:

1. You keep mentioning that the texts lasted for about two weeks, so they didn't have that much time for the relationship to progress. What you never said was that they SAW EACH OTHER in person ALL DAY, EVERY DAY. They probably flirted A LOT face to face and got fairly close to each other BEFORE A SINGLE TEXT WAS EVEN SENT.

2. She sent him a TOPLESS picture of herself. Kind of odd behavior for a relationship that only had lasted TWO WEEKS. Kind of odd behavior for someone who was NOT initiating. If a woman sends me a TOPLESS picture of herself, I read that to mean her saying to me, "let's fyck!" "Here it is, Big Boy, come and get it!"

3. You had to initiate ALL of her actions to end this affair. Nothing unusual there, it's par for the course. BUT, also par for the course, she DOES STILL have feelings for him. He DID NOT throw her under the bus. She STILL IS BEING LOYAL TO HIM by not wanting you to expose to his girlfriend.

4. She is GETTING TRANSFERRED. Not working for a different employer. My experience - employees CALL from one office to another ALL THE TIME - MANY TIMES IN A DAY - and NO ONE ever questions it. Employees VISIT other offices from time to time. Very likely they still will be in contact with each other, even if they work in different offices. You cannot control what happens on WORK PHONES and WORK COMPUTERS.

Do the best you can to watch this thing. Make her account for her time, put a gps on her phone, put a voice-activated recorder in her car and maybe in the house.

I suggest having her handwrite a no contact letter to him. The letter should state that she does not want ANY contact from him at all and if he attempts to contact her again she will file a sexual harassment complaint with human resources and with the police. She shows it to you and you mail it. My opinion - if this is done by text or by email or even by voice it is not as effective. Best if you send it via some type of registered or certified mail where he has to sign for it, or through a messenger service where he has to sign for it. Maybe at work.

I'm happy to hear that everything is going well at the moment. I guess it was the same for you FOR A YEAR in between contacts with your former girlfriend. Why would this be any different?


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## Devonshire (Feb 11, 2013)

F-102 said:


> Dev, with those 1 a.m. messages, I have a gut feeling that this is FAR from over.


I figured out that smith micro is the company that created app that converts voicemail to text. it is on phone as trial and noticed they sent us messages dating back to september wanrning us of trail ending and asking us if we wanted to renew it.
This could have been the messages she got, but I wont know till I get home and see phone. If they are deleted then I know they were messages from him, but Im leaning towards it being nothing.
I was really worried for a while there.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

There's no way to monitor the phone if they are tech savvy. There are apps through which calls show up as data usage rather than on the call log or the phone bill. There are games that have chat features. These things are easy to delete and reinstall. Do the best you can.


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## Devonshire (Feb 11, 2013)

Will_Kane said:


> There's no way to monitor the phone if they are tech savvy. There are apps through which calls show up as data usage rather than on the call log or the phone bill. There are games that have chat features. These things are easy to delete and reinstall. Do the best you can.


right. i've been monitoring that. ...and i definately have my moments of complete doubt, but i do believe she has cut contact and regrets it all. 
I'm still monitoring....


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Devonshire said:


> I figured out that smith micro is the company that created app that converts voicemail to text. it is on phone as trial and noticed they sent us messages dating back to september wanrning us of trail ending and asking us if we wanted to renew it.
> This could have been the messages she got, but I wont know till I get home and see phone. If they are deleted then I know they were messages from him, but Im leaning towards it being nothing.
> I was really worried for a while there.


Maybe not, I tend to delete advertising messages just because I can.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Will_Kane said:


> Dev,
> 
> 
> 4. She is GETTING TRANSFERRED. Not working for a different employer. My experience - employees CALL from one office to another ALL THE TIME - MANY TIMES IN A DAY - and NO ONE ever questions it. Employees VISIT other offices from time to time. Very likely they still will be in contact with each other, even if they work in different offices. You cannot control what happens on WORK PHONES and WORK COMPUTERS.


^^^THIS^^^ is what I wanted to caution you about too. Let her know that there should be no reason whatsoever for him to call her. And if he does she is to let you know ASAP


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## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

She regrets being caught more than anything. Read other threads. 

Make sure you know everything. Sent a topless photo? Kissing? My guess there is more.


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## Devonshire (Feb 11, 2013)

walkonmars said:


> ^^^THIS^^^ is what I wanted to caution you about too. Let her know that there should be no reason whatsoever for him to call her. And if he does she is to let you know ASAP


done a million times over. no way to check that though.


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## Devonshire (Feb 11, 2013)

jim123 said:


> She regrets being caught more than anything. Read other threads.
> 
> Make sure you know everything. Sent a topless photo? Kissing? My guess there is more.


so i dont expect anyone to necessarily believe this, because i'm not sure i even believe it myself, but she says she took topless pic (her hand is actually covering them) after texting him, but didnt show it to him (i know she didnt send it). ..but that she decided it was too much and showed him a different pic in person (a pic which she showed me and was also a sexy pic but in exercise clothes). 
i guess i'll never know if she showed him that pic or not and i am really tired of asking for the truth on it. She swears she showed him this other pic.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Dev you've done all you can for now. Now it's time for you to evaluate what is acceptable and what is not. You let her know that because she has free-will she is going to do what she's going to do. 

That there are things you will never accept as a husband. That if you have the slightest doubt of her commitment to the marriage and her vows you will end the marriage and go your separate way. It's up to her. 

You need to start a self-improvement program for yourself. Both emotionally and physically. Start with the gym. Read books on successful marriages and a husbands role. I think some of those books have been recommended on this thread.


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## Devonshire (Feb 11, 2013)

walkonmars, im on it. thanks. one is coming in mail soon


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

The first needs to be MMSLP. It will give you context for anything else you read.

For you both, HIS NEEDS HER NEEDS andTHE FIVE LOVE LANGUAGES.Oh yeah, NOT JUST FRIENDS.


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## Devonshire (Feb 11, 2013)

5 love languages is the one i ordered


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Devonshire said:


> so i dont expect anyone to necessarily believe this, because i'm not sure i even believe it myself, but she says she took topless pic (her hand is actually covering them) after texting him, but didnt show it to him (i know she didnt send it). ..but that she decided it was too much and *showed him a different pic in person (a pic which she showed me and was also a sexy pic *but in exercise clothes).
> i guess i'll never know if she showed him that pic or not and i am really tired of asking for the truth on it. She swears she showed him this other pic.


This sends just about the same message as the topless pic. "Here's what I have to offer! Do you want this body? Come and get it, it's yours!"


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## Devonshire (Feb 11, 2013)

i know, and it makes me sick but i know it was him making her feel sexy and her being weak and stupid. she did tell me he tried to do more and she stopped him, and being a guy, i believe that. 
like i've said before though I also believe she eventually would have had they continued to meet.


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## Devonshire (Feb 11, 2013)

..and let me just throw out there that he's a big tall fat greasy looking guy and my wife is super sexy and cute. 
...if for no other reason than full disclosure.


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## Devonshire (Feb 11, 2013)

...wanna see the pic? lol 
jk


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

I'd like to see a picture of the guy - on cheaterville. I'd like to hear about him receiving a no contact letter threatening a harassment charge that he has to sign for at work. I'd like you to take some actions against Mr. Tall Fat Greaser that make him not want to mess around with your wife. Give it some thought.

She's minimizing her role in this whole thing. I agree that she was getting validation, but maybe lacked physical attraction for the guy. Definitely would have given it up eventually to keep the validation coming. You've won the battle for the moment. Stay the course.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Devonshire said:


> ..and let me just throw out there that he's a big tall fat greasy looking guy and my wife is super sexy and cute.
> ...if for no other reason than full disclosure.


Yes.....well, some of the descriptions you read here about APs defy belief. It's called affairing down.

I would guess, though, that your W feels comfortable saying the things to this creep that you want her to say to you. You've described serious problems in your M and, while pushing him out of her life is absolutely essential, it's not going to fix the other things that you've been unhappy with.


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## Devonshire (Feb 11, 2013)

alt, i think we've addressed that issue. ..not to say it's fixed, but at least from my end i'll never hold back compliments or my love in general ever again. Its stupid. I am partially to blame for why she sought out compliments and attention elsewhere.
She has been very good about it too since the incident.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Devonshire said:


> alt, i think we've addressed that issue. ..not to say it's fixed, but at least from my end i'll never hold back compliments or my love in general ever again. Its stupid. I am partially to blame for why she sought out compliments and attention elsewhere.
> She has been very good about it too since the incident.


This is good. I know you will stay vigilant about this OM. He sounds like the type who does not go gently into that good night.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> This is good. I know you will stay vigilant about this OM. *He sounds like the type who who not go gently into that good night*.


:iagree:
If he is as disgusting as you describe, he probably doesn't get may opportunities - so when he does, he is relentless. He is likely to bide his time until the next office party, team meeting, etc to start with a "I've been so worried about you! How are you doing?" etc. 

Relentless they are.


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

This was a PA. Don't rush to trust. Don't rug sweep. Don't let her blame shift, gas light you, and for the future it would be best to FIND A NEW JOB !

Having read your story, I honestly think they had something sexual going on, kissing leads to groping, etc etc. The benefit of doubt could be maintained that she was only with him for less than an hour both times, well thats enough time for a ....

Anyway, keep working hard, james bond time.


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## ironman (Feb 6, 2013)

Devonshire said:


> i know, and it makes me sick but i know it was him making her feel sexy and her being weak and stupid. she did tell me he tried to do more and she stopped him, and being a guy, i believe that.
> like i've said before though I also believe she eventually would have had they continued to meet.


Devon, you've done well so far. Good job on standing up and defending your marriage like a man should. But I caution you. Never underestimate women. She was not being "weak and stupid" ... she was actively shopping herself around. Hers were the actions of someone who knew "exactly" what they were doing.

You seem to realize that she would have eventually consummated the act, and I agree. At this point, only you can decide if she is truly remorseful and repentant. Only you can determine if she is worth remaining married to. If you find her acting suspiciously again then you may need to think about this long and hard. Otherwise, keep your guard up and I wish you the best of luck and a happy marriage.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You should read MMSLP first. If I haven't already mentioned it, it will give you context for what has happened and may even get you a compliment or more. Unless of course she is simply a broken person.


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