# Boyfriend is gun-shy about marriage



## love238

Hi All,

Boyfriend of 2 and 1/2 years is gun-shy about marriage because of his divorce. I am divorced also but would like to get married and build a life together. He doesn't think we need a contract, but says that just because he is gun-shy about marriage, it doesn't mean that he will never get married. We both already have children and do not want more children. To me, marriage is more than a contract, it's a feeling of commitment and building a life together as a family, and a promise to be together forever.

I was sad and hurt about his unwillingness to marry me. I feel as though he must not love me enough to do so. I've contemplated leaving him, and he knows that. He says that he loves me and would be heartbroken if I left him.

I've thought about it long and hard, and I figured out that the relationship that I have with my boyfriend is the best relationship I've ever had. We have a good time together almost always, and can talk issues through without arguments. I also figured out that I can't leave him because I love him too much. I've rationalized and thought through the marriage thing and realized that if he agrees to move-in together and buy a house together, and basically act like a family with me then my emotional need would be met. Marriage does not guarantee forever, and neither does buying a house together and living together, but at least my emotional need for a family-feeling and stability is met. There is also protection against having to go through divorce if it doesn't work out, and the financial downsides to divorce. It seems like a way to have one's cake and eat it too.

Even though I can rationalize about not needing marriage, I can't help but feel also that I'm settling for less by staying with him without the promise of marriage. Why can I not get over that feeling? Can someone help me with this?


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## Mavash.

I don't think I will ever play house again without the commitment.

I believe people treat property better if they own it vs if they are just renting.

I believe sometime the same applies in relationships.

If you are not invested its easier to leave when things get tough.

That's not okay with me.

I might date long term but I'm not going to shack up again.


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## Married but Happy

It sounds like marriage would mostly be symbolic for you. Almost any other practical benefit or right can be accomplished by other legal means, with a few exceptions (which may or may not matter depending on your individual circumstances).

We were indifferent to marriage, but it did allow me to obtain health insurance for her. We were concerned that marriage would ruin things for us, as we'd done so very well for so long without it. Fortunately, it did not change anything for us, but it was a risk.

Your choice should reflect what's most important to you. If you insist and he refuses, can you accept the consequences? If things go along as they are, unchanged, is that better or worse than the potential consequences if he refuses?


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## love238

Mavash. said:


> I don't think I will ever play house again without the commitment.
> 
> I believe people treat property better if they own it vs if they are just renting.
> 
> I believe sometime the same applies in relationships.
> 
> If you are not invested its easier to leave when things get tough.
> 
> That's not okay with me.
> 
> I might date long term but I'm not going to shack up again.


Can you elaborate about your experience with living together? What happened to cause you to never want to do it again?


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## love238

Married but Happy said:


> It sounds like marriage would mostly be symbolic for you. Almost any other practical benefit or right can be accomplished by other legal means, with a few exceptions (which may or may not matter depending on your individual circumstances).
> 
> We were indifferent to marriage, but it did allow me to obtain health insurance for her. We were concerned that marriage would ruin things for us, as we'd done so very well for so long without it. Fortunately, it did not change anything for us, but it was a risk.
> 
> Your choice should reflect what's most important to you. If you insist and he refuses, can you accept the consequences? If things go along as they are, unchanged, is that better or worse than the potential consequences if he refuses?


[/I]

I feel like I am accepting the way things are and not insisting that we need to get married because I'm afraid to lose him.

I'm afraid to regret losing him. I love him very much. 

I just don't know how to cope with the feeling that I'm settling for less than I want and the feeling that he doesn't love me enough. 

I guess I can tolerate being sad about not getting married vs. losing him and being sad about that. 

It's a hard position. Any advice?


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## EleGirl

love238 said:


> [/I]
> 
> I feel like I am accepting the way things are and not insisting that we need to get married because I'm afraid to lose him.
> 
> I'm afraid to regret losing him. I love him very much.
> 
> I just don't know how to cope with the feeling that I'm settling for less than I want and the feeling that he doesn't love me enough.
> 
> I guess I can tolerate being sad about not getting married vs. losing him and being sad about that.
> 
> It's a hard position. Any advice?


Could you please list the things about marriage that will benefit you?


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## Mavash.

love238 said:


> Can you elaborate about your experience with living together? What happened to cause you to never want to do it again?


I did it three times when I was young. Somehow I always seemed to be on the short end of this deal. Financially, emotionally, spiritually. It was win/lose in their favor. Their needs got met but mine didnt.


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## love238

EleGirl said:


> Could you please list the things about marriage that will benefit you?


1. a promise to be together forever, grow old together, work together to build a home together, and a family together

2. a feeling of stability 

3. a feeling of being loved so much that he wants to be with me forever and is willing to take the risks associated with that

4. none of the sadness that I feel when he mentions doing things in future without me

5. what his parents and my parents have: a lifelong partner to travel with and to lean on through the tough times and the good times


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## Holland

Nowhere in all of this have you mentioned the children and what steps you have taken to ensure that blending families will go well.
You have only been together for 2.5 years and you want to live together and get married, you both have kids, the odds of you staying married are very low.

Second marriages have a higher chance of divorce than first, 75% or so. The main reason is the children, blending families is one of the most difficult family/relationship dynamics that people can face. The first thing to do would be to seek professional guidance on how to blend your two families.


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## lifeistooshort

I think what makes his argument phony is that if it's just a piece of paper then why not get married, if it means that much to you? If it's just a silly contract then what's the problem? The issue is that without said contract he can keep one foot out the door. Not everyone feels this way about marriage and if you were both fine without it I'd say carry on, but you're not happy and you are settling. The whole bit about him being "heartbroken" reeks of a bit of manipulation as well, because if he's equally concerned for you he could tell you point blank that it's not on his horizon and if you need to look elsewhere that's ok, but instead he dangles it so he can continue what works for him with little thought of you. You have two choices: drop it and be happy with what you have, which I don't think you can do, or move on. Three years into my relationship with my hb ( we were both divorced and both had kids like you guys) I told him I wanted to be married and if he didn't i understood and would look elsewhere. I also told him I'd never bring it up again. Soon after that the marriage talk started because he knew if he continued to jerk it around I'd dump him, and I would have. Your bf likes the arrangement you have, but it doesn't mean enough to him to get married. That's his choice, so decide what you can live with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort

love238 said:


> 1. a promise to be together forever, grow old together, work together to build a home together, and a family together
> 
> 2. a feeling of stability
> 
> 3. a feeling of being loved so much that he wants to be with me forever and is willing to take the risks associated with that
> 
> 4. none of the sadness that I feel when he mentions doing things in future without me
> 
> 5. what his parents and my parents have: a lifelong partner to travel with and to lean on through the tough times and the good times



Hon, of he talks about doing things in the future without you he doesn't see you as a life partner. He's not gun shy, he just doesn't want to marry you. Sorry.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## love238

lifeistooshort said:


> I think what makes his argument phony is that if it's just a piece of paper then why not get married, if it means that much to you? If it's just a silly contract then what's the problem? The issue is that without said contract he can keep one foot out the door. Not everyone feels this way about marriage and if you were both fine without it I'd say carry on, but you're not happy and you are settling. The whole bit about him being "heartbroken" reeks of a bit of manipulation as well, because if he's equally concerned for you he could tell you point blank that it's not on his horizon and if you need to look elsewhere that's ok, but instead he dangles it so he can continue what works for him with little thought of you. You have two choices: drop it and be happy with what you have, which I don't think you can do, or move on. Three years into my relationship with my hb ( we were both divorced and both had kids like you guys) I told him I wanted to be married and if he didn't i understood and would look elsewhere. I also told him I'd never bring it up again. Soon after that the marriage talk started because he knew if he continued to jerk it around I'd dump him, and I would have. Your bf likes the arrangement you have, but it doesn't mean enough to him to get married. That's his choice, so decide what you can live with.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He is a salesman so maybe he does know how to frame things to make a convincing argument.

I don't think I can find someone else that I love and get along with as much I do with him. The problem is that I don't want to leave him, but I know that I'm settling. 

I feel bad for myself that I have a boyfriend who doesn't want to marry me.


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## love238

lifeistooshort said:


> Hon, of he talks about doing things in the future without you he doesn't see you as a life partner. He's not gun shy, he just doesn't want to marry you. Sorry.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Maybe you're right. But, when I bring this topic up with him about how he sometimes talks about his plans for the future that do not include me, he says that he is planning to be with me for the long-term. 

I just don't have the strength to leave him. Someone please talk some sense into me. 

I do have guy friends who are in the same position with their girlfriends. They really do love their girlfriends but do not want to get married. When I talk to them, they tell me to understand it from the guy's point of view.

Actually, on paper, I'm a catch sort of, lol. I'm a successful lawyer with my own law firm. I'm 8 years younger than he is, and men find me attractive. I'm in shape, own my house, have two kids who are the best kids that I could ever ask for. They are sweet and smart and have never caused me any problems with teachers or at school. My kids love my boyfriend. He thinks that I'm one of the most logical women he's ever dated, lol, and that's why we get along. He is not in as great financial shape as I am in, has two kids, one of whom has mild autism, and one of whom graduated from high school but doesn't want to go to college or really apply himself. 

He and I really get along, and we love each other and endlessly entertain each other because of our differences and commonalities. I learn a lot of things from him and his life experiences which are different from my upbringing. He is trustworthy and loyal and that is really hard to come by.


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## EleGirl

love238 said:


> Maybe you're right. But, when I bring this topic up with him about how he sometimes talks about his plans for the future that do not include me, he says that he is planning to be with me for the long-term.
> 
> I just don't have the strength to leave him. Someone please talk some sense into me.
> 
> I do have guy friends who are in the same position with their girlfriends. They really do love their girlfriends but do not want to get married. When I talk to them, they tell me to understand it from the guy's point of view.
> 
> ....


So what exactly is the man's point of view on this that they want you to understand?


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## EleGirl

The two of you are living together, right?

Whose house do you live in?

Who pays the bills? What percentage do each of you pay?

What % of total income does each of you bring in?

How many children do each of you have and how old are they?

How much time do the children spend at your house?


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## Mavash.

love238 said:


> I know that I'm settling.


Never ever....ever settle.


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## Married but Happy

Perhaps a compromise is in order. What if you join yourselves together more officially short of marriage? How about wills, medical power of attorney, at least some joint accounts, and a non-marital cohabitation agreement? These things require serious commitment but don't require the big scary M word.


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## Married but Happy

Mavash. said:


> Never ever....ever settle.


Everybody settles. It's called compromise.


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## Mavash.

To settle: resolve or reach an agreement about (an argument or problem).

Compromise: an agreement or a settlement of a dispute that is reached by each side making concessions.

Some things can't be compromised like if one wants kids and the other doesn't, one wants marriage and the other doesn't. This to me is a black/white issue where there is no compromise. One would have to give up the dream aka settle.

Which okay that's fine if she's okay with it. I just said it wouldn't be okay with me that's all.


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## love238

EleGirl said:


> So what exactly is the man's point of view on this that they want you to understand?


Maybe it's just denial on my part. I ask for the guy's point of view because I want to figure out whether how men think in this situation. Women can think one way, but sometimes I find that men can act and perceive things in different ways.


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## love238

EleGirl said:


> The two of you are living together, right?
> 
> Whose house do you live in?
> 
> Who pays the bills? What percentage do each of you pay?
> 
> What % of total income does each of you bring in?
> 
> How many children do each of you have and how old are they?
> 
> How much time do the children spend at your house?


No, we don't live together. 

I am thinking of living together as an alternative to marriage, but I haven't brought it up with him. Now, I am questioning whether living together is a good thing. I don't want to feel not good enough to marry. But, then again, given the strength of my finances, I would actually have more to lose than he does if we got married and then divorced. It just shows that he's not a gold digger because if he were, he would really want to marry me.


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## love238

Married but Happy said:


> Perhaps a compromise is in order. What if you join yourselves together more officially short of marriage? How about wills, medical power of attorney, at least some joint accounts, and a non-marital cohabitation agreement? These things require serious commitment but don't require the big scary M word.


Yes, as a lawyer, I've thought about all this and actually I'm an estate planning lawyer so I know about all this stuff. 

Practically, it would actually be better for me financially and more protective of me to NOT get married and just live together. I get him, and I get to keep my assets separate. I get to leave if it doesn't work out and I don't have to go through a financially draining and emotionally draining process to extricate myself from a relationship that is not working.

I just can't get over the idea that he doesn't love me enough, and I hold marriage as an ideal that I want.


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## Mavash.

There are men here that have sworn on a stack of bibles they are NEVER getting married again.

And then they meet HER.


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## Married but Happy

love238 said:


> I just can't get over the idea that he doesn't love me enough, and I hold marriage as an ideal that I want.


*Then you know what you need to do.* Talk to him about it, and let him know this is a requirement to stay together. He either loves you enough to give you what you want, or he is too gun-shy about marriage (or does not love you enough) to do so even if it costs him the relationship.

A week should be plenty of time for him to make up his mind, IMO. Delaying things further won't do either of you any good, if you are clear on what you need.


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## EleGirl

love238 said:


> Maybe it's just denial on my part. I ask for the guy's point of view because I want to figure out whether how men think in this situation. Women can think one way, but sometimes I find that men can act and perceive things in different ways.


I am asking you specifically what the point of view is that these men are asking you to understand. If we don't know what they are telling you then how can we help you here?

There is no one male point of view for marriage. So what it their point of view and how does it relate to your boyfriend's point of view?


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## love238

Mavash. said:


> There are men here that have sworn on a stack of bibles they are NEVER getting married again.
> 
> And then they meet HER.


I don't know why I'm unlucky enough to NOT be HER, lol.

He actually broke up with me about 9 months into our relationship. He said that I am everything he wants in a woman, but he is a romantic and thinks that he doesn't love me enough to move forward with our relationship. He said that with our compatible personalities we can date for years but it would be a waste of time in the end. 

I was heartbroken but started dating again right away. About a month into our break-up, he begged for me back. He said that during our month apart, all he could think about was me. He tried dating other women, but on dates, he could only think about me, and that other women do not compare to me. He said that he figured out that I am the woman that he wants to be with and he does love me. 

I had already started dating other men at the time, and broke it off with the other men just to get back together with him. I've stuck by him through his financial difficulties, and now he's back on his feet financially. 

I just don't think I have the strength to break up with him. I hate that I'm settling.


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## Mavash.

Ouch so you took him back?


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## love238

Married but Happy said:


> *Then you know what you need to do.* Talk to him about it, and let him know this is a requirement to stay together. He either loves you enough to give you what you want, or he is too gun-shy about marriage (or does not love you enough) to do so even if it costs him the relationship.
> 
> A week should be plenty of time for him to make up his mind, IMO. Delaying things further won't do either of you any good, if you are clear on what you need.


THis is probably what I should do. I'm not able to face the pain of losing him, however. I feel stuck. I put myself in this position because I am unable to let him go.


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## EleGirl

love238 said:


> No, we don't live together.
> 
> I am thinking of living together as an alternative to marriage, but I haven't brought it up with him. Now, I am questioning whether living together is a good thing. I don't want to feel not good enough to marry. But, then again, given the strength of my finances, I would actually have more to lose than he does if we got married and then divorced. It just shows that he's not a gold digger because if he were, he would really want to marry me.


I disagree that if he were a gold digger that he would marry you.

If he's a gold digger he could set himself up so that you, as the major earner with the most assets pay most of the bills and provide your assets, like your home, as asset available to him. 

Then he saves his money.

In many states, even without marriage, there is palimony, etc. He could sue you for support and for a portion of your assets. Do you live in a state that allows for this?

He says that he wants to be with you for a long time. He's not committing to being with you forever. A long time can me a year, two years, until he meets the woman of his dreams, or forever. You have no idea.

If you stay with him, keep in mind that he has made no commitment to you. My experience with men who do this is that they are still on the lookout for the next, better woman (whatever he considers better).


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## love238

Mavash. said:


> Ouch so you took him back?


Yes, that was about two years ago. We've been so happy since then. We hardly ever disagree and even when we do we talk things out and don't get into loud arguments. We have a lot of fun together and enjoy each other's company. His parents love me and encourage him to marry me. His brother talks about me as though I am family. His friends really like me. My kids like him.


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## lifeistooshort

love238 said:


> I don't know why I'm unlucky enough to NOT be HER, lol.
> 
> He actually broke up with me about 9 months into our relationship. He said that I am everything he wants in a woman, but he is a romantic and thinks that he doesn't love me enough to move forward with our relationship. He said that with our compatible personalities we can date for years but it would be a waste of time in the end.
> 
> I was heartbroken but started dating again right away. About a month into our break-up, he begged for me back. He said that during our month apart, all he could think about was me. He tried dating other women, but on dates, he could only think about me, and that other women do not compare to me. He said that he figured out that I am the woman that he wants to be with and he does love me.
> 
> I had already started dating other men at the time, and broke it off with the other men just to get back together with him. I've stuck by him through his financial difficulties, and now he's back on his feet financially.
> 
> I just don't think I have the strength to break up with him. I hate that I'm settling.




He's told you everything you need to know. He likes you well enough to keep the benefits of this relationship but is not romantically in love with you. How's this for your strength: he's going to enjoy what he's got until he meets someone that he is crazy about, and when that happens he'll either continue to enjoy what you offer and cheat or he'll dump you and marry her. Honestly you don't have a lot of value in his eyes because he knows you're settling for what you don't want, so he knows you'll stick around as long as he wants you. How much of your life will you waste on this?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

love238 said:


> I don't know why I'm unlucky enough to NOT be HER, lol.
> 
> He actually broke up with me about 9 months into our relationship. He said that I am everything he wants in a woman, but he is a romantic and thinks that he doesn't love me enough to move forward with our relationship. He said that with our compatible personalities we can date for years but it would be a waste of time in the end.
> 
> I was heartbroken but started dating again right away. About a month into our break-up, he begged for me back. He said that during our month apart, all he could think about was me. He tried dating other women, but on dates, he could only think about me, and that other women do not compare to me. He said that he figured out that I am the woman that he wants to be with and he does love me.
> 
> I had already started dating other men at the time, and broke it off with the other men just to get back together with him. I've stuck by him through his financial difficulties, and now he's back on his feet financially.
> 
> I just don't think I have the strength to break up with him. I hate that I'm settling.


Ok so he told you why he will not marry you. He is not crazy in love with you. You are not THE ONE.

But you came back and begged, so he knows that you will put up with all kinds of disrespect to keep him. You will do until he meets THE ONE. 

Has he asked you to live with him? What living arrangements were discussed if so?

Do you have a daughter? Is this what you want to teach your daughter? You will be teaching her that she should settle for whatever some guy offers her, even if it's very little. She will learn that women have no power in a relationship.. only the man does.

If you have a son, think of what you are teaching him.. lesson #1 is that it's quite ok to treat YOU with disrespect.

ETA: By the way, he was trying to do the honorable thing when he broke up with you. He told you where he stood. But you went back and begged him to use you. So much for him trying to be honorable. 

This is how a person sets themselves up for heartbreak.


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## Mavash.

Agree he likes you but he's not in love with you. He wishes he was because you are great but it doesn't work that way.

He's settling too.


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## EleGirl

lifeistooshort said:


> He's told you everything you need to know. He likes you well enough to keep the benefits of this relationship but is not romantically in love with you. How's this for your strength:  he's going to enjoy what he's got until he meets someone that he is crazy about, and when that happens he'll either continue to enjoy what you offer and cheat or he'll dump you and marry her. Honestly you don't have a lot of value in his eyes because he knows you're settling for what you don't want, so he knows you'll stick around as long as he wants you. How much of your life will you waste on this?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

love238, you are an attorney? What kind of attorney?

Would you draw up a contract for a client that put them in the position of no-win? Think about that.


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## love238

EleGirl said:


> Ok so he told you why he will not marry you. He is not crazy in love with you. You are not THE ONE.
> 
> But you came back and begged, so he knows that you will put up with all kinds of disrespect to keep him. You will do until he meets THE ONE.
> 
> Has he asked you to live with him? What living arrangements were discussed if so?
> 
> Do you have a daughter? Is this what you want to teach your daughter? You will be teaching her that she should settle for whatever some guy offers her, even if it's very little. She will learn that women have no power in a relationship.. only the man does.
> 
> If you have a son, think of what you are teaching him.. lesson #1 is that it's quite ok to treat YOU with disrespect.
> 
> ETA: By the way, he was trying to do the honorable thing when he broke up with you. He told you where he stood. But you went back and begged him to use you. So much for him trying to be honorable.
> 
> This is how a person sets themselves up for heartbreak.


I know that you trying to help me, but you are misreading my posts.

HE was the one who begged for me back after he broke up with me. HE and NOT me.


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## Mavash.

I knew he begged to get you back but I believe he told you the truth before. He came back out of fear of not finding anyone better.


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## EleGirl

love238 said:


> I know that you trying to help me, but you are misreading my posts.
> 
> HE was the one who begged for me back after he broke up with me. HE and NOT me.


You are right, I misread your post. I stand corrected.

How much time do the two of you spend a week together? I'm trying to get an idea so his commitment.

Did he ask you to live with him?


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## love238

EleGirl said:


> You are right, I misread your post. I stand corrected.
> 
> How much time do the two of you spend a week together? I'm trying to get an idea so his commitment.
> 
> Did he ask you to live with him?


Because we both have kids, and it suits my schedule as well, we see each other between 2 to 4 days a week. 

No, he has not asked me to live with him. His house is a fixer upper. Mine is a spacious and new house. I don't think he would think that I would want to live in his house as it is.


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## EleGirl

Mavash. said:


> I knew he begged to get you back but I believe he told you the truth before. He came back out of fear of not finding anyone better.


My son's father did something very similar to me. 

He broke it off so I went my own way. He did this in the 2nd year we dated and then at the 4.5 year mark.

Both times he came back on begged me to get back with him. I gave in.

The second time he did not just ask me to get back with him. He asked me to marry him.

Well I married him. It was a HUGE mistake. After a year of what I thought was a good marriage, he started treating me as I would expect a man to treat a woman who he felt was not THE ONE. It turned into a very bad marriage. He cheated like crazy. I did not realize that he was cheating for a few years... but I did eventually find it out.

Why did he marry me? I think it's because I was the only woman he dated that out earned him. So I was the wife material.. the one who could help him live the lifestyle he wanted to become accustomed to. It turns out that he was a gold digger.


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## EleGirl

love238 said:


> Because we both have kids, and it suits my schedule as well, we see each other between 2 to 4 days a week.
> 
> No, he has not asked me to live with him. His house is a fixer upper. Mine is a spacious and new house. I don't think he would think that I would want to live in his house as it is.


Has he brought up the idea of the two of you living under the same roof, regardless of who owns that roof?


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## inarut

I myself have very conflicting thoughts/feelings about remarriage. My biggest issue in not getting married is the same fear as yours.... That thought that maybe it meant he didn't love me enough which may or may not be true especially when you are talking about a second marriage. I think though that when someone truly loves you... You know it, you feel it....it's unmistakable. Does he make you feel that way?

You do seem to be way ahead of him in this relationship. You are thinking about marriage or living together and he hasn't even brought up that idea. I also think his reason for breaking up with you contributes to your doubts about his love....it would make any woman question his reason for being with her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mavash.

Ele I dated a guy that dumped me after 6 months. He came back begging and I told him to take a hike. Lol

He continued to pursue me but no dice.

I didn't want him after his "you aren't the one" speech.


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## love238

EleGirl said:


> Has he brought up the idea of the two of you living under the same roof, regardless of who owns that roof?


No. Even when he was in dire financial straits, he always paid for at least his share. He cooked dinners for me all the time, and we were able to enjoy each other's company for 2 and 1/2 years without the big ticket items such as fancy dinners, presents, etc.

I don't think he's cheating on me. All his friends say that he's a one-woman at a time kind of guy.


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## inarut

Mavash. said:


> Ele I dated a guy that dumped me after 6 months. He came back begging and I told him to take a hike. Lol
> 
> He continued to pursue me but no dice.
> 
> I didn't want him after his "you aren't the one" speech.


Hard to recover from that.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## love238

inarut said:


> I myself have very conflicting thoughts/feelings about remarriage. My biggest issue in not getting married is the same fear as yours.... That thought that maybe it meant he didn't love me enough which may or may not be true especially when you are talking about a second marriage. I think though that when someone truly loves you... You know it, you feel it....it's unmistakable. Does he make you feel that way?
> 
> You do seem to be way ahead of him in this relationship. You are thinking about marriage or living together and he hasn't even brought up that idea. I also think his reason for breaking up with you contributes to your doubts about his love....it would make any woman question his reason for being with her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I do think he loves me. He initiates spending time with my parents. He incorporates me into his circle of friends and family. He doesn't spend time with me just to have sex. He sometimes doesn't even want sex. We just spend time together taking walks, cooking dinner together, going to see movies, going to his friends' homes for dinners, going to his parents' home for the weekend, and spending time with our respective kids together. 

It would be hard to give that up. I'm having a lot of fun with him.


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## inarut

love238 said:


> I do think he loves me. He initiates spending time with my parents. He incorporates me into his circle of friends and family. He doesn't spend time with me just to have sex. He sometimes doesn't even want sex. We just spend time together taking walks, cooking dinner together, going to see movies, going to his friends' homes for dinners, going to his parents' home for the weekend, and spending time with our respective kids together.
> 
> It would be hard to give that up. I'm having a lot of fun with him.


You "think" he loves you and you state actions that make you think so but do you feel it? Maybe I'm not expressing myself well but when a man loves you....you can feel it. Does he make you feel loved, special, important?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mavash.

How old are you two?


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## EleGirl

Mavash. said:


> Ele I dated a guy that dumped me after 6 months. He came back begging and I told him to take a hike. Lol
> 
> He continued to pursue me but no dice.
> 
> I didn't want him after his "you aren't the one" speech.


You were smarter than me. That's clear.


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## Mavash.

EleGirl said:


> You were smarter than me. That's clear.


Nah you give me too much credit he wasn't that great to start with.

Had he not dumped me I would have eventually done it.

We ended up friends until he got married and then I sent him packing.

He was still pursuing me and forgot to tell me he'd gotten married,

Can you say "ass"? Lol


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## EleGirl

love238 said:


> No. Even when he was in dire financial straits, he always paid for at least his share. He cooked dinners for me all the time, and we were able to enjoy each other's company for 2 and 1/2 years without the big ticket items such as fancy dinners, presents, etc.
> 
> I don't think he's cheating on me. All his friends say that he's a one-woman at a time kind of guy.


So he has not expressed a desire to live together. He does not want to get married.

He's happy with the relationship the way it is. You want more.

He has 3-5 days a week when he does not see you. Does he see you primarily on the days he has his children?


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## love238

EleGirl said:


> So he has not expressed a desire to live together. He does not want to get married.
> 
> He's happy with the relationship the way it is. You want more.
> 
> He has 3-5 days a week when he does not see you. Does he see you primarily on the days he has his children?


No, we are on the same child custody schedule most of the time. Initially, we only saw each other when we each didn't have our children. Then, after 2 years of dating, we allowed our children to get into the mix. Now, we see each other primarily when our kids are not with us, but also when our kids are with us. I'm a busy woman. I have a law firm to run, and kids to raise. He would probably see me more often if I wanted to. 

Yes, he is happy with the relationship as it is. He got taken financially during his divorce and doesn't want to be potentially taken again, I would assume.


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## love238

Mavash. said:


> How old are you two?


He is 50 and I'm 42.


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## EleGirl

love238 said:


> No, we are on the same child custody schedule most of the time. Initially, we only saw each other when we each didn't have our children. Then, after 2 years of dating, we allowed our children to get into the mix. Now, we see each other primarily when our kids are not with us, but also when our kids are with us. I'm a busy woman. I have a law firm to run, and kids to raise. He would probably see me more often if I wanted to.
> 
> Yes, he is happy with the relationship as it is. He got taken financially during his divorce and doesn't want to be potentially taken again, I would assume.


If you have more assets and more income than he does, how would he be taken financially if you marry? You would be the one who stands to lose the most financially if you marry.


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## love238

EleGirl said:


> If you have more assets and more income than he does, how would he be taken financially if you marry? You would be the one who stands to lose the most financially if you marry.


Well, I didn't say he doesn't have any assets.


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## Cosmos

love238 said:


> I've rationalized and thought through the marriage thing and realized that if he agrees to move-in together and buy a house together, and basically act like a family with me then my emotional need would be met. Marriage does not guarantee forever, and neither does buying a house together and living together, but at least my emotional need for a family-feeling and stability is met. There is also protection against having to go through divorce if it doesn't work out, and the financial downsides to divorce. It seems like a way to have one's cake and eat it too.


No it doesn't, but I wouldn't buy a house or any other large assets with someone unless my interests were legally protected. The Courts do not protect people who aren't married (but you must know this already if you run a law firm) and, unless there was a Cohabitation Agreement in place, I wouldn't even consider it. So, for me, there would be a legally binding contract one way or the other...


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## EleGirl

love238 said:


> Well, I didn't say he doesn't have any assets.



Nor did I say or imply that he doesn't have any assets. 
You said that you have more assets than he.

Both of you have assets that would be considered separate as long as you both handle them in a way that does not co-mingle them with marital income/assets.

If both of your income is about the same it's a draw if you divorce. Split everything 50/50 and go your own way.

There are even pre-nups.

The idea that he does not want to get married because he feels that he was taken to the cleaners in his previous marriage is a red haring due to the fact that you are the higher earner and would bring more assets into the marriage.

I rather doubt that his fear of financial loss is the reason he does not marry you. It makes no sense at all under the circumstance.


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## EleGirl

love238 said:


> I've rationalized and thought through the marriage thing and realized that if he agrees to move-in together and buy a house together, and basically act like a family with me then my emotional need would be met. Marriage does not guarantee forever, and neither does buying a house together and living together, but at least my emotional need for a family-feeling and stability is met. There is also protection against having to go through divorce if it doesn't work out, and the financial downsides to divorce. It seems like a way to have one's cake and eat it too.


What marriage does do is to bring into play a legal structure that protects both parties and tells them what the rules are. It also gives men right to his own children without having to go to court to prove paternity and custody rights.

If you do not marry then you have to re-invent the rules yourself and put the necessary legal contracts in place between the two of you to create any kind of stability.

For example you live with him for years and buy a house together. He dies. His children get half of your house. Depending on how it was purchased, deeded, etc.. they might even be able to kick you out and take the house from you.


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## love238

EleGirl said:


> What marriage does do is to bring into play a legal structure that protects both parties and tells them what the rules are. It also gives men right to his own children without having to go to court to prove paternity and custody rights.
> 
> If you do not marry then you have to re-invent the rules yourself and put the necessary legal contracts in place between the two of you to create any kind of stability.
> 
> For example you live with him for years and buy a house together. He dies. His children get half of your house. Depending on how it was purchased, deeded, etc.. they might even be able to kick you out and take the house from you.


I know about all the legal safeguards. 

I would like marriage for the reasons I already stated.

As an update, I've been so bothered by this the whole day that I had to have another talk with him about it today.

He says he loves me and is not playing around with me. He wants our relationship to evolve eventually to living in the same home, being a family and marriage. I feel better now.


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## PleaseDontBreakMe

love238 said:


> I know about all the legal safeguards.
> 
> I would like marriage for the reasons I already stated.
> 
> As an update, I've been so bothered by this the whole day that I had to have another talk with him about it today.
> 
> He says he loves me and is not playing around with me. He wants our relationship to evolve eventually to living in the same home, being a family and marriage. I feel better now.


It's three-plus years later... I'd like to know whether this salesman boyfriend followed through on living together and marriage or whether he was simply saying what he knew you wanted to hear. Are you still together? If so--Are you happy? Do you feel like your needs are being met? Do you feel loved without question? Do you feel "that important" to him? If not--what happened? And are you OK? 

I'm in a similar situation, although we actually already live together. I went looking for advice and to try to suss out what my "feelings" about getting married really boil down to - and to help myself try to figure out whether the feelings might change or be rationalized, etc. And the original question/statement felt like I could have written it myself, so I followed along the entire thread. 

I felt that EleGirl was very much on point, as well as Lifeistooshort, and that if he wasn't truly IN LOVE with you, both were settling and would potentially be unhappy either way. (Been there, done that--don't want the T-shirt!) Not that I believe the outcome of your situation will reflect what may happen with mine, nor that it should be a path I'd follow myself, but I'd very much like to know what happened. I am empathetic to the plight, and I'm concerned about what it all actually means in application to my own situation. 

Thanks for your time, if you are able to respond again.


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## SunCMars

Bit on an old Flame-Out Post. 

Charcoal between my teeth tipped me off.


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