# Womens sexual attraction towards men, please help



## Ctn594

Well I have a long thread on my situation in the sex forum. Bottom line is my wife of 16 years and know her for 19 years as just told me that she has NEVER had any sexual attraction towards me since the day we met. NEVER!

Is this something that could be fixed by me finding the specific needs of love that she needs or should I just pack up and move on? We have three kids and i want to work on it, but it appears that she doesn't. She doesn't want to go to counselling or read any books about love or passion. 

Please help...


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## cody5

At least you got your wife to admit it. And no, she's gone. If it wasn't there when your relationship was young and exciting, it won't be there now. I'm living it right now. It sucks, doesn't it?


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## sisters359

I can only speak for myself, but I'm not attracted to just any guy. A lot of good-looking guys don't turn me on, or guys who are good-looking AND awesome people. It has nothing to do with them; it has to do with what I find sexually attractive. It has a lot to do with a combination of their looks/sound/smell, and looks alone is almost irrelevant--I can look at someone totally gorgeous and it's like looking at a beautiful painting--no turn on whatsoever.

I think that a lot of women make the mistake of thinking that being responsive to a guy when he starts making moves is the same thing as being attracted to him. It's not. When I'm attracted, I want to rip off his clothes and do things to him; I fantasize about him, etc. If I'm not sexually fantasizing about a guy, I'm not attracted to him. The sex will generally be ok, but I'll have a "take it or leave it" kind of attitude about it. Add to that the normal frustrations of married life, and I will just want to "leave it." 

If your wife has been having sex with you w/o attraction and despite feeling resentment, the sex with you has many negative connotations.

She has no right, however, to blame you. If you choose not to live without sex, then of course you must leave since she's not interested in sex with you. She is being extremely selfish to think you'd want to stay in such a charade of a marriage. She is not to blame for not being attracted to you, either, however--she can't help that. She made a mistake in trying to make it work with you--and remember, you married a woman who clearly wasn't head-over-heels sexually turned on by you. Both of you were not aware of the issues, and sadly, it is time to end this marriage. Part friends--do not resent what the other cannot give you. She cannot give you the desire you need her to feel; you cannot give her the sacrifice of a sex life. It's ok. No one has any right to judge you and if you stay kind to one another--or no worse than business-like--your kids will be ok. Read "The Healthy Divorce" and other things about helping kids weather a divorce. Go to the county "Children of Divorce" seminar together, and learn more, then keep the kids in the center as you dissolve the marriage.


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## cb45

i generally agree w/ most of what i read here, 'cept.......

she hasnt cheated, as far as we know. :scratchhead:

she hasnt been truthfull. big problem. is she being
truthful now? or is she speaking up now 'cuz shes
upset/resentful over something she hasnt stated? 

these parts are fixable, i think, and not worthy of
divorce. u have some communication sessions
to come, best w/ a counselor to ref over, as it may
become nasty. 



peace---------------------------------------cb45


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## Susan2010

I read your other thread and saw that most responses made such an issue about your wife's job, but it's not about the job. It's about what you represent to your wife. In this instance, you told her to quit her job, a job she hated having to work. In doing so, you triggered something in her psyche that caused the dopamine to flow. It's like a high. That particular consideration for her on your part was her dope. Not realizing what you actually did, you thought it was all about her not having to work anymore. But again, it wasn't about the job. She didn't necessarily hate the job. She hated that she had to go work. In other words, you were promising to step up to the plate. For her, the plate is you having a job and taking care of your family the way she needs you to, the way she thinks you should. So that promise restored the image and respect she wants to have of you being husband, father, and provider.

So what happened when you told her to quit her job?...................



Ctn594 said:


> Back in February she said the decision I made to have her quit was the nicest thing anyone has ever done for her . . . A week before she quit we had a nice sexual encounter. To me the best we ever had.


But shortly after, reality set in and what happened then?..................



Ctn594 said:


> Now it means nothing to her.


Just like the respondents in your other thread, you keep making this whole issue about her job and quitting her job, but maybe you didn't read Turnera's response in that thread. Please go back and read it. Therein lies your answers.

Dopamine is what controls sexual desire. Either it is flowing or it's not. It is up to you to turn it on and by doing so, you turn HER on. It is also you who turns it off. So, what am I saying? I am saying you kill her high or prevent her from getting high. If she tells you she is not sexually attracted to you, she is trying to say you do things and say things that make her not want you. She is trying to say you do NOT do things and say things that DO make her want you. Where her job and your lack of work are concerned, she is trying to say you kill her buzz for you by not working and taking care of your family the way she needs you to do, the way you promised you would.

Now, I appreciate that you are trying to find answers and gain understanding. And what better way than to ask on forums like this one, where there is a vast array of people and opinions. But you have to filter through most of your responses. I know it feels good when someone tells you your wife is nuts and women need to work just like men, she was wrong to marry you, and all that jazz. I understand how a lot of the responses you receive serve very well to confirm your way of thinking or at least confirm your right to be confused by your wife's words and perplexing actions. But you need to get to the core of the problem in your marriage, so all that confirming your ego is not going to help. I think the core of the problem is your wife's sense of security. Very simply, some women are brought up to believe the man takes care of the home financially and the woman should not have to work outside the home. She cannot change the way she feels in this respect. It was ingrained into her psyche from a very early age, so that is the way she thinks. Then you came along into her life, and you confirmed that for her. You told her she doesn't have to work, that you would take care of her and the children that came along. Am I right? I think I am since you said in the other thread that she began working 6 years ago because you guys needed the extra money. 

Okay, so what happened after that?...............



Ctn594 said:


> She resented me for not "being the man" and bringing home enough money so she didn't have to work and she could be the mother she wanted for the kids.


Everyone has their own triggers. When it comes to sexual attraction, what turns one person on doesn't necessarily do it for another person. I might be sexually attracted to a guy, but if he doesn't do it for me in bed, then the attraction very rapidly fizzles and I no longer want to jump his bones. Why, because he brought me back down to reality and stopped the release of dopamine/killed my high/turned me off.

At this point, you are nothing but demanding. I can understand why, in that you are frustrated with the situation and sexually frustrated also. But she doesn't care, just like you said. She doesn't want to be bothered with you being demanding because she isn't getting what she needs either. You have made many attempts to make her happy because you know if she isn't happy, then you are not happy. It's just that the efforts you made were not what she needed (except that one you know about). So again, you are right to seek answers, and I hope you won't give up on her, yourself, and your marriage. Honestly, if you give up and don't gain understanding of how to make your wife happy, you will also have problems in other relationships. So you might as well stay and work on this to keep your family together. And yes, it is going to be work.

First, stop demanding anything of your wife. You're killing her libido and she doesn't want to know about yours. Sex will resume in due time. You will have to be patient in the meanwhile. I really don't expect it will take long, not if you are serious about working on your marriage. Remember what happened the last time you triggered her. That didn't take long at all, did it?

Secondly, get a job. You might initially have to keep your promise and work two jobs, but I wouldn't advise that for very long. There isn't much more you'd be able to do in the way of repairing your marriage if you are never at home. So don't work two jobs for long, but keep looking for better-paying jobs.

Thirdly, rent this move. Watch it. And follow the principles.

Finally, learn the Five Love Languages.

So now, I'm wondering something. You said your wife doesn't want to go to counseling or read any books. But if she said she is not sexually attracted to you, then what do you expect counseling will do? Convince her that she IS sexually attracted to you? If she said she is not sexually attracted to you, then what do you expect her reading a book will do? Teach her how to get sexually attracted to you? Do you get the absurdity of you expecting her? You are suggesting she has a problem and expecting her to fix herself. And, you're expecting her to, suddenly out of the blue, become sexually attracted to you. I hope you understand now that fixing this is up to you.

I hope I helped you put some of this into perspective.


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## Ctn594

Susan2010 thanks for the detailed response. You make some valid points and I don't even know were to start.

The reaon why this is such a topic now is because I'm pressing the issue and becoming very resentful and bitter because of the lack of effection. I definitely felt that with me supporting her decision to quit her job that she would be more effectioniate to me. Did I do it because of that no. I wanted to make her happy. 

I understand there is something that I'm not doing to turn her on, but from day one when we first met? There is alot of time between day one and today and for someone to say I never did it for them hurts. I feel I can't be anything different then I am today. Trust me I've had my bad days, but there has been plenty of good ones. Hard to swallow that I never lite her bulb inside through all that I have done for her. I've tried asking what does turn her on and she can't even tell me she says its been so long. I want to know what it is trust me. 

She only wants to stay in the relationship due to the kids and told me without us having kids she would of divorced me along time ago. Then she flat out told me she wouldn't mind if I cheated on her. She was so cold an unemotional that at that point I knew I had to put the house up for sale and escape the hurt. After I told the kids that we would be getting a divorce and selling the house, she said i could handle the truth and like always I did things half ass because the lawn was not cut this week and the bathroom floor needs to be fixed. 

All that I wanted her to say was that she would work on this with me, but I need to be understanding in the process. She doesn't want to read any books or go to counseling. To me she has given up as well and feels that her lack of sexual feelings for me will never be there. She has extremely a low self esteem, no friends and not really close to her family. She also has social aniexty disorders and hates going to family functions or friends parties. 

So this is up to me to fix, but I don't even have a road map to even know were to begin. Its hard to fix something when I feel so bitter and wronged by this person.


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## Susan2010

Ctn594, I appreciate how you feel. By all means, keep venting until you get it all out of your system and there is nothing left to say or vent about. Vent until the pain subsides just a little and you can make it through the day. Believe me, I know how you feel. And then when you have vented until there is nothing left, then decide whether you want to try to work on this. I didn't say the two of you work on it. I said decide if YOU want to work on it. What does that mean? It means what I already told you.....to stop expecting her and stop making demands of her. Deciding to work on it involves no one but you. It will still be painful at first, but you will have to stick with it. So when you make the decision to work on it, you will be more open-minded and better able to listen. Because I already gave you a road map, but you came back with more complaints and demands. So when it's all out of your system and you decide to work it, determine when you would like to begin.


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## Ctn594

We talked a little this morning. She is crushed that it has come down to this and she said she wishes she never got into an arguement about this at all. She says it will be very hard on her because she has no job, no friends, the kids now hate her and no money. Of course to me this is a problem she doesn't care about losing me, but just the kids situation. I want her to come forward and proclaim her love for me and say she will work on this with me together, but I'm getting no response at all. She keeps saying what I'm capable of giving you is just not enough. She continues to say that I expect way too much from her 24/7. She said everything else about me is fine except this. I asked her to name 3 things that she would want improve in. They were sexual neediness, don't be so emotional and don't take things so personal. I told her its kind of hard not to take this personal after what she said to me. She then mentions that she had dreams of someone taking care of her and lifting her off her feet with financial security and car with a bow on it. She then mentions a few of my friends wifes who have never worked and live in mansions. 

Susan I still want this to work out between us, but I have a strong feeling nothing will change. I can't meet all of her emotional needs and I think If I ever did she will still have no sexual feelings for me. If I never flicked her dophamine switch before and now with all this added pressure how will this ever work? I don't think I have the patience to see this through. Lets just say I financially support the family myself working like a dog, treat her with respect and do for and the kids. I hate to say this, but if sex is my vice to make me feel appreciated and like a man, but I know she is never interested in me in that way I might just crack.

Any suggestions for patience and to see this through?


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## Ctn594

One last thing my wife keeps saying this is all that I could give to me time after time. I take the comment as she is not willing to go the extra mile for this relationship. I even read somewhere that in a marriage both people just can't be who they normally are in a relationship, they need to work at it and go the extra mile to make the relationship work. My wife doesn't agree at all with those views and continues to just be herself.


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## CH

She might have let slip something important to you also. When she stated that some of your friend's wives don't work but live in a mansion.

Does she feel that she's getting the short end of the stick by comparing her life to that of your friends? Or do you guys also live in a mansion and have all the pretty toys etc...?

If not, that might be the root of her problem, I don't want to say it but I smell a gold digger. Mind you, this is just my opinion based on what I have read. It looks like she's looking for a free meal ticket by putting in as little effort as possible. And that my friend will never work in a marriage.


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## Susan2010

cheatinghubby said:


> I don't want to say it but I smell a gold digger. Mind you, this is just my opinion based on what I have read. It looks like she's looking for a free meal ticket by putting in as little effort as possible. And that my friend will never work in a marriage.


That was completely unhealthy, unhelpful, and untrue.

__________________________________________________



Ctn594 said:


> I want her to come forward and proclaim her love for me and say she will work on this with me together


Ctn594,

1. I keep asking you to stop expecting her.
2. I wonder if she has ever had an orgasm.


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## Ctn594

Susan2010 said:


> That was completely unhealthy, unhelpful, and untrue.
> 
> __________________________________________________
> 
> 
> 
> Ctn594,
> 
> 1. I keep asking you to stop expecting her.
> 2. I wonder if she has ever had an orgasm.


I know but its hard not to think she feels something for me.

She has said she has never had an orgasm with intercourse with me only thru masturbating with me helping out, but I'm sure I wasn't doing anything exciting for her.


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## cody5

You need to start getting your physical and emotional needs filled elsewhere. Life's too short and she's NOT going to suddenly profess her love and atraction to you. You need someone to want you. Go find it. It WON'T happen at home. Sorry. Put your energies towards an endeavor that has a chance of working. I'll leave it up to you if you want to let her know what's ging on. If you want to be petty, you can look at it that she owes you 16 years of keeping a big secret from her. 

Good luck. Sorry. Again, I'm living it right now.


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## Susan2010

Okay, here we go. I have tried to be diplomatic about some things, and some things I have not addressed at all out of concern for your feelings. But it seems whatever I do say, you are not listening to me. And, in that same vein, you have spent your marriage not listening to your wife. To tell the truth, not listening is very common for men, and they don't know the problems and unhappiness it causes their wife and in return, it causes problems and unhappiness for them. Invariably, they blame the wife without realizing the problems, lack of sex, arguments, etc. are of their own making. So, here it is, everything I want to say to you. I hope you will finally get the message. Incidentally, either you have been ignoring them or simply not listening but just in case you do not know, underlined words/phrases of a different color are links. Please CLICK and READ them.

As I explained before, your wife has in her mind the concept of what marriage means to her. And then, you came along and made promises to fulfill her dreams and to be her image of an ideal husband, father, and provider. No doubt you tried and for all I know, her expectations might not be practical or attainable, but still you promised and now she feels you have failed her. Right now, she is looking at her life and reflecting on the past 16 years, and she realizes the marriage not only failed to reach any particular pinnacle standard of success but also has not flourished sexually, financially, emotionally, or material-wise. There is a lot she wants, a lot she expects, and there's even a lot she will settle for, but she is looking around and looking back only to discover she has settled for everything and not received any of what she needs and wants. That is a GREAT big turnoff. She feels there is no area in her life that yields satisfaction, so she has checked out and shut down from disappointment. But, you can win her back if you want to. Stop looking at it in terms of you working on it together. Stop expecting her. She is not going to make any effort because she has checked out. She is looking at you talking and feels that is all you have done because, after all, she is looking around but doesn't see any progress, so she's lost faith. As was stated before, this is entirely up to you. You can do it but you have to make the effort alone to win her back. You have to step up and live up to your promises.

On another note, sexual attraction usually has little to do with a person's appearance. Yes, people are more readily attracted to people they deem good looking, or perhaps there is something about a person that attracts them especially. Initial attraction, however, can quickly fizzle, as I mentioned has been my experience. Conversely, if a woman is not initially attracted to a man, it doesn't mean she can never become sexually attracted to him. To compensate for initial lack of attraction, a man's prowess in bed can keep her coming back for more. This also has been my experience. In fact, the man who blew my mind in bed, taught me everything I know about sex and everything I know about my body was not the typical looking guy I was accustomed to dating. He was very much over weight and not good looking by anyone's standard. Although I was not at all sexually attracted to him, he was kind, intelligent, had a great smile, and possessed many other qualities that appealed to me. Therefore, he was no less a candidate for my affections than anyone much better looking. Then when we made love the first time, he had me hooked almost entirely. I couldn't keep my hands off him after that. It was at that point I became sexually attracted to him. Had he not been skillful and considerate, no doubt I would have rejected the notion of him as a lover even though I would still appreciate his many other attributes.

I'm beginning to feel like a broken record to keep saying the same thing to so many men who complain about their wife's lack of sexual desire. Men seem to think that because sex is a pleasurable act, that it automatically feels good to the woman since it feels good to the man. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Penetrating a woman and being inside her feels good to a man, but the man has to learn how to make it feel good to the woman. He cannot automatically assume that it does. Some couples have it going on that good but most couples don't. It is of utmost importance that you sharpen your skills in the bedroom to be the best possible lover that you can be. Following are some articles and videos to help you understand what women need most.

Note: I did not and would not link to any pornography but if you find any at this site and watch it, that is up to you. I linked only to instructional videos. 

Oral sex techniques

G-Spot Massage

G-Spot Positions

A-Spot Massage


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## michzz

A couple of things stand out to be as flawed thinking.

1. You told her to quit her job when she is planning for YOU to move out. You just set yourself up for a larger spousal support nut to carry for her. You need to get her employed again.

2. YOU have to move? I don't think so. She's the disruptive force in your marriage and has harbored a secret disloyalty towards you--namely her lack of desire for you. I think you ought to inform her that she can move out.


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## flatterpuss

Ctn594 - have you had sex with your wife throughout the years? I take it as a yes. 

Have you had passionate sex?? I am a woman, and the thing about women is that we often say things in the heat of the moment and we respond to EMOTION. Men are much simpler. Their word can more likely be counted on.

Did your wife say this in the heat of the moment?? Had you had a fight recently? Or has sex been off the cards recently?


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## cb45

:banghead: :nono: :banghead: :nono: :banghead: :nono:

oh my........what a mess.


:biggrinangelA:-----------------------------------cb45


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## Ctn594

flatterpuss said:


> Ctn594 - have you had sex with your wife throughout the years? I take it as a yes.
> 
> Have you had passionate sex?? I am a woman, and the thing about women is that we often say things in the heat of the moment and we respond to EMOTION. Men are much simpler. Their word can more likely be counted on.
> 
> Did your wife say this in the heat of the moment?? Had you had a fight recently? Or has sex been off the cards recently?


Yes we have sex. She spelled it out to me that only because I wanted it and never did I turn her on. She has hinted this for the last few years, but always took back what she was saying at the very end. Now she told me she did this because I couldn't handle the truth. She is right about that. She would give me oral sex or sex on my request a couple times a month. Two months ago we had a nice encounter after she drank two glasses of wine. First time in the relationship she let me go down on her. I was happy as a pig in **** for weeks after that. 

She says she has only climaxed through masterbation. At least I was involved with stimulating the chest, but during an agrument months ago she even told me that did nothing for her. I do look back at those moments and did feel i was involved and make her feel good a little bit. She has told me she has tried to make it happen between us, but nothing has worked. She is a type of person that never lets anything go and keeps it harbored inside of her for ever. She says she wishes she didn't feel this way at all because everything else is good between us.


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## Ctn594

Susan2010 said:


> Okay, here we go. I have tried to be diplomatic about some things, and some things I have not addressed at all out of concern for your feelings. But it seems whatever I do say, you are not listening to me. And, in that same vein, you have spent your marriage not listening to your wife. To tell the truth, not listening is very common for men, and they don't know the problems and unhappiness it causes their wife and in return, it causes problems and unhappiness for them. Invariably, they blame the wife without realizing the problems, lack of sex, arguments, etc. are of their own making. So, here it is, everything I want to say to you. I hope you will finally get the message. Incidentally, either you have been ignoring them or simply not listening but just in case you do not know, underlined words/phrases of a different color are links. Please CLICK and READ them.
> 
> As I explained before, your wife has in her mind the concept of what marriage means to her. And then, you came along and made promises to fulfill her dreams and to be her image of an ideal husband, father, and provider. No doubt you tried and for all I know, her expectations might not be practical or attainable, but still you promised and now she feels you have failed her. Right now, she is looking at her life and reflecting on the past 16 years, and she realizes the marriage not only failed to reach any particular pinnacle standard of success but also has not flourished sexually, financially, emotionally, or material-wise. There is a lot she wants, a lot she expects, and there's even a lot she will settle for, but she is looking around and looking back only to discover she has settled for everything and not received any of what she needs and wants. That is a GREAT big turnoff. She feels there is no area in her life that yields satisfaction, so she has checked out and shut down from disappointment. But, you can win her back if you want to. Stop looking at it in terms of you working on it together. Stop expecting her. She is not going to make any effort because she has checked out. She is looking at you talking and feels that is all you have done because, after all, she is looking around but doesn't see any progress, so she's lost faith. As was stated before, this is entirely up to you. You can do it but you have to make the effort alone to win her back. You have to step up and live up to your promises.
> 
> On another note, sexual attraction usually has little to do with a person's appearance. Yes, people are more readily attracted to people they deem good looking, or perhaps there is something about a person that attracts them especially. Initial attraction, however, can quickly fizzle, as I mentioned has been my experience. Conversely, if a woman is not initially attracted to a man, it doesn't mean she can never become sexually attracted to him. To compensate for initial lack of attraction, a man's prowess in bed can keep her coming back for more. This also has been my experience. In fact, the man who blew my mind in bed, taught me everything I know about sex and everything I know about my body was not the typical looking guy I was accustomed to dating. He was very much over weight and not good looking by anyone's standard. Although I was not at all sexually attracted to him, he was kind, intelligent, had a great smile, and possessed many other qualities that appealed to me. Therefore, he was no less a candidate for my affections than anyone much better looking. Then when we made love the first time, he had me hooked almost entirely. I couldn't keep my hands off him after that. It was at that point I became sexually attracted to him. Had he not been skillful and considerate, no doubt I would have rejected the notion of him as a lover even though I would still appreciate his many other attributes.
> 
> I'm beginning to feel like a broken record to keep saying the same thing to so many men who complain about their wife's lack of sexual desire. Men seem to think that because sex is a pleasurable act, that it automatically feels good to the woman since it feels good to the man. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Penetrating a woman and being inside her feels good to a man, but the man has to learn how to make it feel good to the woman. He cannot automatically assume that it does. Some couples have it going on that good but most couples don't. It is of utmost importance that you sharpen your skills in the bedroom to be the best possible lover that you can be. Following are some articles and videos to help you understand what women need most.
> 
> Note: I did not and would not link to any pornography but if you find any at this site and watch it, that is up to you. I linked only to instructional videos.
> 
> Oral sex techniques
> 
> G-Spot Massage
> 
> G-Spot Positions
> 
> A-Spot Massage


Susan at this point I'm not even thinking of what I could do to improve my sexual prowness with her. I've learned over the years what to do and not to do and seriously believe I could make a woman climax if she was sexually attracted to me.

Yesterday I sat down with her and told her I thought I tried everything to make you happy, but the one thing I haven't tried is not to expect affection and sex from you. Moving forward I will not expect this (God damn I really need help finding serious ways not to) from you. I did add in (which probable wasn't a wise thing) that I only need support from you when I'm down and not be the burden that you make me feel. She agreed. Unfortunately throughout the night watching TV, laying down going to bed all I thought about was all the signs and arguements we had over this throughout the years which of course wanted to either jump of a bridge or through her off because she has caused all this pain.


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## Ctn594

cody5 said:


> You need to start getting your physical and emotional needs filled elsewhere. Life's too short and she's NOT going to suddenly profess her love and atraction to you. You need someone to want you. Go find it. It WON'T happen at home. Sorry. Put your energies towards an endeavor that has a chance of working. I'll leave it up to you if you want to let her know what's ging on. If you want to be petty, you can look at it that she owes you 16 years of keeping a big secret from her.
> 
> Good luck. Sorry. Again, I'm living it right now.


Cody this all spiraled out of control Tuesday afternoon. Tuesday night I signed up for a dating site. So far 5 woman contacted me, 2 of which we have sent emails back and forth and i know have their phone numbers. Yesterday I talked to my wife and removed the for sale sign on the house. Now all of these woman think I'm still in the early stages of divorce, but maybe I'm not. I need to be honest with them as well, but If I do find someone who is right for me then who knows...


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## Susan2010

Ctn594 said:


> I've learned over the years what to do and not to do and seriously believe I could make a woman climax if she was sexually attracted to me.


:scratchhead:
That makes no sense whatsoever.


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## amanda1959

wine=oral sex
dating websites+for sale sign=confusion

pick one


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## cb45

hey was that a 
cheap merlot or a pinot noir de blanc ?? 

and....re: the 4 sale sign, best put around yer neck when 

sitting for yer website pic, no es verdad ??(dont u agree)


:bsflag:---------------------------------------cb45


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## Ctn594

Susan2010 said:


> :scratchhead:
> That makes no sense whatsoever.


Susan I guess by you making that comment about it not making sense has me thinking. I was trying to say if a woman has sexual feelings for me I believe I have what it takes to make it happen in the bedroom. Foreplay, thinking about the woman 1st and what to do to stimulate her. 

From your point of view if I never could create the passion before the sexual act with my wife or for that matter with other woman it doesn't matter at all how I perform in the bedroom. Am I right?

Now I'm really looking for any glimmer of hope that one day she will feel something sexual for me with me finding out her love language. Does masterbating infront of me or wanting to stimulate her chest during this a good sign or giving me oral sex a couple times a month? I know she isn't doing it for her, but can I at least look at it as she isn't vomitting or refusing at all to do it? Even having sex with me after having a few drinks?

Thanks for the advice.


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## Mrs. Spice

This is not about sex. You are not meeting her emotional needs. A woman is sexually aroused by a man _who meets her emotional needs._ The fact that she is not attracted to you, I guarantee, has 90% to do with what you are not giving her _outside_ of the bedroom. If you can find a way to make her feel loved IN THE WAY SHE NEEDS YOU TO, she will become putty in your hands. Trust me. 

The first thing you need to do is set your wants/needs aside and learn what SHE NEEDS. Do everything you can to meet those needs, and things will turn around. 

Be patient. It will take a lot of work, especially at first, because the pattern you have set up in your current relationship will make her skeptical of anything you try. But hang in there, and it will be worth it! You'll see.


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## Ctn594

Mrs. Spice said:


> This is not about sex. You are not meeting her emotional needs. A woman is sexually aroused by a man _who meets her emotional needs._ The fact that she is not attracted to you, I guarantee, has 90% to do with what you are not giving her _outside_ of the bedroom. If you can find a way to make her feel loved IN THE WAY SHE NEEDS YOU TO, she will become putty in your hands. Trust me.
> 
> The first thing you need to do is set your wants/needs aside and learn what SHE NEEDS. Do everything you can to meet those needs, and things will turn around.
> 
> Be patient. It will take a lot of work, especially at first, because the pattern you have set up in your current relationship will make her skeptical of anything you try. But hang in there, and it will be worth it! You'll see.


Mrs Spice thank you very much for the advice. Do you feel this is still true since she said she never found me sexually attractive since day 1? She said I was good looking and nice, but she didn't want to rip my clothes. 

Now today I had a long nice 1 hour conversation with her. I told her that since I met her 19 years ago I always felt that I wasn't good enough for her and maybe my insecurities about her were very apparent and she was turned off by them. She didn't say a word one way or another about what she doesn't find attractive about me. I'm thinking to myself that because of this I also wanted her to proclaim her love to me through affection and sex and pushed the envelope way to much. I also told her that after are inititial agruement and when I made a quick decision to put the house up for sale that I joined a dating site and within 48 hours I had a great number women who were interested, but with each interaction from the woman I found out that I wanted to work it out with her more then ever and not start a new life with a different woman. She didn't really seem to care, but told me that you didn't see her look for guys when she was frustrated. Shen then told me that she is unhappy and feels like something is missing in her life, but she doesn't know what. She said she knows its just not leaving her co-workers at work and having no one to speak to. I asked her if she thinks its me. She said she don't know. I told her to go out for the evening and see if she even feels a little bit of missing me, alot or couldn't care less. She then said why do you think its you, why can't it be something else? I told her you did say you were never sexually attracted to me, but I also added that its been along time since I saw her happy. She agreed and doesn't know since when. I added that she did say a few months ago that the last time she was happy was after the birth of our third kid. She got bad because I was putting words in her mouth. I didn't want to agrue so I just left it at that. Funny thing about this is during the last 2 months since she left work I asked her (maybe in not the nicest way) why she was unhappy, rude or moody and I got a **** full from her that I'm always trying to dig when there is nothing there. Well what do you know I was right all along. I asked her if there was anything I could do to help just ask. She says she knows she should be happy. She has a husband who cares, 3 lovely kids, a nice house and doesn't even have to think of working for the next year or so, but doesn't know why. Why doesn't the female mind just say I do have all of that and my husband is decent looking so lets just ****! Why the drama? It doesn't also help that my wife just finished reading a book about a lady that traveled 3 continents to find happiness with some wonderful guy. Why do females always have such high expectations when it comes to falling romantically in love, with fireworks going off as they drive into the sunset. Why not appreciate what the your currently have and try to explain to your spouse what makes you happy emotionally and sexually.

Overall I got a cold distant response, but like most on her told me was not to expect anything from her. So for once in this relationship I didn't and let her be. I guess the good part of the conversation was that I mentioned a number of things I needed to work on in the relationship and I never got any agruements from her or why couldn't you of done this sooner or its too late. 

Well later tonight (9pm) one of my kids, her and me were watching TV. I closed my eyes for a minute and she disappeared. At 9:15pm a found her laying doen in bed. I crawled in bed with her and asked her if she was going to bed. She said why not, there is nothing to do. Normally she goes to bed around 12midnight to 2am. I suggested she take a ride to a store to go shopping. She said no. I asked her if she wanted to take a ride to the new casino that I will be working at shortly? She said no. I asked her to go out to a diner for a desert? She said no. I asked her to take a walk? She said no. I asked her if she wanted me to leave her alone? She said yes. So I left nicely and closed the door.

One other thing the other day she said I try to spend more time with just her then with our whole family involved. So yesterday the whole family decided that we would go on a small 2 day vacation next Thursday and Friday of next week to the Philadelphia Zoo and Hershey Park. I even purchased 5 tickets to Saturday's Bon Jovi concert for all of us as a surprise. This should go over well since the wife hates concerts, but my three sons love Bon Jovi. I thought it would be a fun family evening.

Well wish me luck.


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## michzz

She wants nothing to do with you, it has nothing to do with the specific thing you propose to do: shopping, concerts, etc.

If you say up she will say down. If you say left, she will go right.

You only are in her head as an invasion.

I think you ought to reassess your strategy.

Ass-kissing is not working for you.


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## Kobo

Listen to Mich. How are you going to fill someone's needs if she isn't attracted to you? Why would you want someone to give you pity sex? Time to grow a pair. Your happiness is just as important as hers except she has no concern about your "emotional needs" by telling you she has never been that in to you. Work on yourself. Go back to doing that hobby you gave up to spend more time around the house. Pick up a couple more hobbies while your at it. Take a weekend trip with your friends.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NicoleT

Sisters359 totally nailed the aspect of attraction in a woman on the head for me. "If I'm sexually attracted I'm fantasizing". Thanks for putting it so eloquently *kudos*


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## turnera

Ctn594 said:


> I know but its hard not to think she feels something for me.
> 
> She has said she has never had an orgasm with intercourse with me only thru masturbating with me helping out, but I'm sure I wasn't doing anything exciting for her.


Neither have I, but my husband makes sure I do in OTHER ways - ALWAYS - before he gets what he wants. 

If you're sure you weren't doing anything exciting...well, why not?

Come on, be creative! ALWAYS put her first! LISTEN to what she wants, and do it!

All that aside, she is obviously not happy with you in general. And no amount of SF is going to make up for it, no matter how great you are with the SF. As Mrs. Spice has already told you, 


> A woman is sexually aroused by a man _who meets her emotional needs._ The fact that she is not attracted to you, I guarantee, has 90% to do with what you are not giving her _outside_ of the bedroom. If you can find a way to make her feel loved IN THE WAY SHE NEEDS YOU TO, she will become putty in your hands. Trust me.


Don't just walk away from the marriage. There is a lot YOU can do to make HER happy, so that she WANTS to make YOU happy with SF.

Has anyone advised you to get the Love Buster and Emotional Needs questionnaires from marriagebuilders.com yet? Print them out and ask her to fill them out. They are your _guidebook_ on how to make her care.


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## cody5

My wife and I have been together almost 20 years. We dated/ were engaged for a long time before we got married. To now find out that I have given my life to someone who was never attracted to me. Never loved me, maybe. It has been over 20 years since I've kissed someone who wanted to kiss me. I'm angry. You should be too. I'm mainly angry that I found out too late. I'm too old and ugly to date new women. I didn't know how to meet women when I was young, handsome and single. 

Start living. She never loved you. Do you think trading your nutsack for a box of tampons over the past few weeks has helped? Find happiness elsewhere. Let her know you're pissed. Tell her he's free to go find her white night that will save her from the miserable life she's created for herself. You've got your own life to sart.


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## michzz

Your wife told you she has never been sexually attracted to you for only one of three reasons:

1. True statement and she's been faking interest for a long time and no longer can do that. 

2. At some point she was sexually attracted to you and no longer is.

In both cases her telling you this now, after literally decades of marriage? An act of hostility and an attempt to wound you.

OR

3. She is mad at you for some slight by you and wanted to wound you and the statement is not true, just angry words.

Note: Item 3 is the least likely.


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## Ctn594

Well for 2 weeks I didn't "expect" anything from my wife emotionally or physically. I brought the family to Hersheypark last week for 2 days (Thursday and Friday). Up to that point my wife was still distant from me. The days away she became more appreciative and respectful of myself. I felt the closeness from her. Holding of the hands, cuddling in bed. I didn't push it any further due to the kids being around and she just got her period the moment we arrived in Hershey. I truely felt bad for her that she couldn't enjoy the trip like the rest of us.

Well we arrived home late Friday night, showered and went right to bed. First thing in the morning we got excited by possible pricing out a Disney Cruise for this coming fall. Unforunately after looking on the computer for close to 2 hours the price of the cruise came in at $7,000 to $12,000 which is out of our budget. Even after being bummed we both decided to go in the pool with the kids, but then received a phone call that my sons hockey game started in about an hour. From me being disappointed that we could spend the time together we both communicated properly and after both of us being outside near the pool for 15 minutes my wife decided to get ready. Up to this point everything seemed perfect in our relationship for 2 and a half days. Respect, caring, concern, love, appreciation and communication. Then we go to the game my wife has a major attitude, my 6 year is acting bad in the car, my wife yells that why did both of you have to come. I'm like WTF? For the game and houra after the game my wife sat at home annoyed, sad and with no emotion. I of course being the concerned husband ask her whats wrong? She said why do you always question everything, just leave me alone, can't people just get in bad moods. I couldn't believe how I just witnessed a complete change of personalities in the matter of minutes. 15 minutes later she said she was completely down about herself after trying on her bathing suit for the 1st time this year and she must of gained 5 pounds. I always complement her on her looks, body and such. I always explain how beautiful she is and she never seems to except it because she doesn't feel it inside herself. I googled an article about self confidence and 10 tips to help improve it. She read the article, but said its definitely easier read then done. Well later in the evening I asked her if she would take a ride to my new place of employment (Local casino). She agreed, but with no emotion. We took the ride. We started talking about the article and the 1st thing it mentioned was list the things about yourself that make you insecure. My wife listed everyone of her body parts from hair to feet and also added in her social anxiety problem. She said why does everything have to be so difficult for her. I tried to talke through each item of what is fixable and what wasn't. i tried to complement her on anything I beoeve she has made progress with. Well throughout the reat of the night she was still miserable and bothered.

Sunday she woke up in the same mood and really didn't even decide to speak to me. We went to Blockbuster around 4pm. Many of the movies that we all like to watch together we already saw. I know my wife wanted to see "Yes John" or something like that. I grabbed it and said we will get this. She made a comment that she didn't want to watch it with me because they aren't my types of movies. What about saying thank you honey and I hope you enjoy it with me. I was getting upset even more at this point. Why doesn't she want to build on our relationship? 14 years ago we both saw Titanic together and I cried like a fish in the movie theather. I don't get her... I let it go til about 5pm and asked her what is really wrong. of course she said nothing, but I told her this is not you at all and I was concerned that how great things were going just yesterday morning and that it all just stopped. I wasn't yelling or argueing, just letting her know that this type of behavior hurts me inside. To me I just went close to two weeks with my tail between my legs no asking anything from her, then we had 2 and a half days were things were great and I still didn't ask anything from her and then she falls back in the funk. 

Monday was the start of my 1st training day at the casino. I came home to how was your day and I explained. Now my wife said I'm not sure what we are doing for diner of course she didn't go food shopping. She has been home for 2 months and hasn't gone by herself at all. I said lets go out to have a small celebration of my new job. Well my wife wasn't showered and I knew by her voice she didn't want to go. I suggested let me go and pick up the food, she then said the food wasn't going to taste good if I picked it up. Right there I had an attitude. I got up and said i was getting pizzas and left the house. Today I did start to expect again and I believe deservable so. There was no joy on her face, no excitement for me, no diner, no emotion, no nothing!

Tuesday I told her that the reason I got mad was her complete 180 degree turn from the weekend and that the behavior concerned me. I know for a fact for 2 weeks I did my best as a husband and as a father to my kids. I didn't do it in an ass kissing fashion either. I asked her if she was happy over the last two weeks and she replied no. I was once again crushed by the statement and then left for my job. I came home to talk to her and asked her why is she doing this. She said I just can't leave her alone. I told her this is not the person that i was knew. She said well people change. She said you were an ******* in this realtionship for many years now its payback. I said wow after what I tried doing for you by supporting you quitting your job. Your ruthless. I told her she must be blind if she doesn't think that her behavior to me is not effecting the kids in some way. I told her she is failing at being a mom and a wife at this given time. I told her if this is how she wants to be to do it on her own time and leave the house. I've worked too damn hard over the years to build what I have. She is the one disturbing the family enviroment. She said this is wasn't she dreamed of when she was a kid. Just to add my wife gets on me for listening to Opie and Anthony in the morning. To me she is just as guilty watching the housewifes of NJ, NY, Orange county. Why are these people on TV? Who the hell are they? My wife spends more time wishing she was others then living and making thebest of what she haves now.


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## turnera

So...what did you do those 2 weeks to CHANGE how your marriage is, aside from YOU not expecting anything?

Did you read His Needs Her Needs? Did you ask her to fill out LB and EN questionnaires? Did you ask her what needs done around the house? Did you take a part time job til your new one started to make extra money? Did you give her a day away from the kids? Did you look into signing up for college so you can get a degree and a better-paying job to better support the family?

Your wife is depressed, disappointed, and full of self-hatred. She hates the life she's been handed. The life that you have 50% responsibility for, since you are married. 

You have plenty of opportunities to affect all that, except for her own self issues. All I see is you retreating, and then griping at her being unwilling to love YOU more.

Seriously? You told her she is failing at being a mom? Seriously?


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## Kobo

If she hates the life she was "handed" then help her move on. She 100% chose to be with the OP. The life she was "handed" is 100% her doing. Let her go find someone to be a trophy wife for. Then get traded in in 10 years.


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## Susan2010

turnera said:


> So...what did you do those 2 weeks to CHANGE how your marriage is, aside from YOU not expecting anything?
> 
> Did you read His Needs Her Needs? Did you ask her to fill out LB and EN questionnaires? Did you ask her what needs done around the house? Did you take a part time job til your new one started to make extra money? Did you give her a day away from the kids? Did you look into signing up for college so you can get a degree and a better-paying job to better support the family?
> 
> Your wife is depressed, disappointed, and full of self-hatred. She hates the life she's been handed. The life that you have 50% responsibility for, since you are married.
> 
> You have plenty of opportunities to affect all that, except for her own self issues. All I see is you retreating, and then griping at her being unwilling to love YOU more.
> 
> *Seriously? You told her she is failing at being a mom? Seriously?*


I gave up a long time ago but was bored and came back into this thread again. So glad I did. It was the worth the chuckle you gave me, Turnera.

No, he didn't do any of the things you're asking. He didn't do any of the things you suggested and none that I suggested. I guess I harped on not expecting so much that he decided to try that, but the only thing he did in the "not expecting" department was not asking for sex. Yes I know, that was the ultimate sacrifice and was supposed to fix everything.

And it's good to know how he normally treats her. We couldn't that far except for him to be angry.


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## MarkTwain

This thread blows my mind. What is wrong with men these days? Why have they become neutered? Walking on eggshells never does any good except if done for very short periods for a specific reason. As a lifestyle choice it sucks.


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## Spotthedeaddog

Susan2010 said:


> She hated that she had to go work. In other words, you were promising to step up to the plate. For her, the plate is you having a job and taking care of your family the way she needs you to, the way she thinks you should. So that promise restored the image and respect she wants to have of you being husband, father, and provider.


she hated going to work.
he provide the means away from that.
she paid him in sex that he seemed to want. so they're even.

He has to actually find out who she is under all the BS.
Chances are even she doesn't know.
She traded security for child minding services for "his" children. probably even figures he somehow owes her for her decision.

She have it buried there under layers of cultural detritus, half truths, and fear & hopes. good luck getting all that in the light to find out after all this time - and she's probably been told she must repress it so she won't be judged, as being acceptable is preferrable to being yourself.


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## Personal

Step Away from The Zombie!


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## Spotthedeaddog

Ctn594 said:


> We talked a little this morning. She is crushed that it has come down to this and she said she wishes she never got into an arguement about this at all. She says it will be very hard on her because she has no job, no friends, the kids now hate her and no money. Of course to me this is a problem she doesn't care about losing me, but just the kids situation. I want her to come forward and proclaim her love for me and say she will work on this with me together, but I'm getting no response at all. She keeps saying what I'm capable of giving you is just not enough. She continues to say that I expect way too much from her 24/7. She said everything else about me is fine except this. I asked her to name 3 things that she would want improve in. They were sexual neediness, don't be so emotional and don't take things so personal. I told her its kind of hard not to take this personal after what she said to me. She then mentions that she had dreams of someone taking care of her and lifting her off her feet with financial security and car with a bow on it. She then mentions a few of my friends wifes who have never worked and live in mansions.
> 
> Susan I still want this to work out between us, but I have a strong feeling nothing will change. I can't meet all of her emotional needs and I think If I ever did she will still have no sexual feelings for me. If I never flicked her dophamine switch before and now with all this added pressure how will this ever work? I don't think I have the patience to see this through. Lets just say I financially support the family myself working like a dog, treat her with respect and do for and the kids. I hate to say this, but if sex is my vice to make me feel appreciated and like a man, but I know she is never interested in me in that way I might just crack.
> 
> Any suggestions for patience and to see this through?



Don't believe a word about the "for the kids" BS.

A few years down the track it will be "I gave up everything to raise your kids". "I just feel like a Mother, nothing about "me" ".

It's an excuse, if you buy into it then you're just enabling. don't buy into it, unless you're the , what 5-10% of males who were actively fishing for an heir and nanny for your offspring.
they are her kids too, and she gets a heck of a lot more say in their lives than you ever will. (ie they are "her kids", you are when it comes to the crunch, just the genetic donor (especially for daughters))


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## Spotthedeaddog

michzz said:


> Your wife told you she has never been sexually attracted to you for only one of three reasons:
> 
> 1. True statement and she's been faking interest for a long time and no longer can do that.
> 
> 2. At some point she was sexually attracted to you and no longer is.
> 
> In both cases her telling you this now, after literally decades of marriage? An act of hostility and an attempt to wound you.
> 
> OR
> 
> 3. She is mad at you for some slight by you and wanted to wound you and the statement is not true, just angry words.
> 
> Note: Item 3 is the least likely.



So 1 and 2 are dishonest and fraudulent. And yet women feel that is acceptable for some reason (why? could that be ever ok. does he get a lifeforce refund on the wasted years while she was pretending?)

And 3 is just nasty, verbal abuse. no one should give or put up with that.


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## Mr The Other

Ctn594 said:


> Well I have a long thread on my situation in the sex forum. Bottom line is my wife of 16 years and know her for 19 years as just told me that she has NEVER had any sexual attraction towards me since the day we met. NEVER!
> 
> Is this something that could be fixed by me finding the specific needs of love that she needs or should I just pack up and move on? We have three kids and i want to work on it, but it appears that she doesn't. She doesn't want to go to counselling or read any books about love or passion.
> 
> Please help...


When a woman loves you, she believes you have the best **** in the world.

Then she goes off you and she was always repulsed by that thing. 

That is her truth, it should not be yours.


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## Personal

spotthedeaddog said:


> So 1 and 2 are dishonest and fraudulent. And yet women feel that is acceptable for some reason (why? could that be ever ok. does he get a lifeforce refund on the wasted years while she was pretending?)
> 
> And 3 is just nasty, verbal abuse. no one should give or put up with that.


Wake Up!



Personal said:


> Step Away from The Zombie!


You are quoting posts made in 2010, it's long past.

Let this zombie discussion go!

:bounce:


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