# The BIG one.



## kilobit

This is my first post on here so bear with me as I am a confused mess. 

Me and my wife met when we were 4 our families were close and i was best friends with her brother. Never considered her as even a friend untill I was 19 and she was 17. We were friends for about 2 years then got serious. We both have the same family values and viewpoints on about everything! We moved in and lived together for about 5 years and she really pushed marriage and I was scared. I finally said yes then she had cold feet for 2 months then she was all into the marriage thing. Almost 10 years into marriage now...

Great! After 3 years we had our son after that things started to trickle south then 2 years later we have a girl. After this I got no attention I talked with everyone read books and tried it all. We saw a counselor about 3 years ago and she realized that both of us are stubborn and actually stopped seeing us. A year later we got another and saw her for about 6 months. Honestly, this time i just was thinking about proving that my wife was wrong and not me. She also got confused and basically said thats just the way my wife is... *****ing and having unrealistic goals. so we stopped going because our insurance changed. Then in August 2011 we went to another one and after the appointment on the way back home I noticed something strange... my wife had given up. 

Keep in mind that I am the only one with a full time job and she stays home and goes to the gym. I normally come home play with the kids while she sleeps and then she wakes up and fixes dinner. We eat together and then do some homework and bedtime for the kids. Thats the routine, I am always open minded to talk to my wife but she never wants to talk just ***** ***** and tell me im wrong on everything. I ask her how her day is every day and tell her i love her.. daily. Well October 31 i was invited to goto a bar with a few friends and my wife took the kids with her friends to halloween. I am not a supporter of that holiday and neither is she but she still took the kids out. When i got home we had sex...it was different. Noticeably. Then she started acting very strange after that. Hiding her cell phone, wanting me to go out alot, being dressed up when i get home from work, teeth whitening, self tan. WTF I found a number on her cell phone and had a friend call it. Its a guy! I knew what was happening.. Well I cried at the table when i found out and she didnt even speak to me. A complete stranger would have given me more affection than her. I asked her if she was having an affair and said no that she needs to find herself and blah blah wanted seperation. She has not mentioned one thing about divorce during all of this. I have watched the kids while she has gone out and screwed this guy from the gym. I am completely devastated and she gets red and angry at me for no reason, blaming me for everything. She is in the fog... ok, well we stay at a house that has been willed to me but is not mine yet and dont have a ton of assets. I froze everything bank accounts credit cards, etc. My neighbors started calling me at work and telling me that my daughter was by the street at 7:30 in the morning. Wtf shes been neglecting the kids too. I called dss and reported this. I didnt know what to do. She was doing things like leaving her wallet and the door wide open to get to the gym in the morning. She finally admitted to an affair but no details about anything, I recorded her and apparently she didnt know the guy too well from the questions she asked. I want our marriage to work but at this point i think im burned out. I have tried everything and I cannot get her to come clean.. want to stay or leave. She has nothing but will not make a choice. I truly want to save our marriage and i believe in the first marriage is the only marriage. Im living in purgatory right now and I dont know what to do. I got a bill yesterday for $300 for std check at her doctors office. She took me off her hippa so i cannot get the results. If she has some disease i dont want her here...but i cant kick her out legally either. She has no remorse for what she has done or what she has put me though. 

This is really a streamline version i have cut out tons of details like private investigators and finding her soiled panties with another mans hair in it. I cant live life this way. Right now she is acting completely normal in my house like nothing ever happened except for blaming me for every little thing thats wrong. I have $8000 in a lawyers account ready to pull the trigger but I love this woman and i cant bear to do this.

At this point I need to know the results of her std test for the safety of the children and I. Just dont know how to approach this.

Any help or direction would be appreciated.


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## the guy

Have you heard about the 180?


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## spudster

Pull the trigger. File for divorce and have her served. Disconnect from her emotionally and only talk to her about the kids, nothing else. She is toxic. Other posters will follow with other ideas.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best

pull the trigger.
lawyer can order the test results im sure.


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## the guy

2nd,
Good advice, spend some of that 8k on a lawyer and see if you can get those results.


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## Latinking

I really feel for you. My oldest bro used a private investigator and had all the details from his ex wife and once that was reported to the judge, let me tell you, the law doesnt like that. If you decide to pull the trigger, make sure the private investigator is willing to go w/ you depending what your lawyer says. I noticed you still love your wife. But the way she is acting is not a marriage, I say talk to her for the last time, try to make her clear things out, if not then you are out the picture. Good luck to you, God bless.


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## kilobit

Wow, these posts come fast, great support here! I have seen and am trying the 180 from divorce busters this week. I have already noticed a big difference in her. Thing is even IF she does give me a heart felt apology women like this are prone to cheat again. I cant go into details here on this public forums but im not sure what my pi has. I know that I do have enough evidence of my own as far as a court system goes but what am i after here. Of course there will be no alimony but then there is child support, honestly she is not even mentally capable of handling these brilliant children. I have been hooked on her beauty for my whole life and its hard to realize all of these things in this short amount of time. I really do have hope in her and want the best but she is on the fence with us and honestly has cheated on me out of spitefulness and has left me standing here holding the ashes to our marriage. Its truly an unbearable experience, I feel like i am being tested by God himself here, no man should have to deal with this punishment.


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## spudster

> I know that I do have enough evidence of my own as far as a court system goes but what am i after here.


To show she is neglecting the kids and to obtain full custody, that's what. When you have her served she's going to come back at you with a vengeance and try to take the kids. You need to have your ducks in a row to shoot down any accusations she makes. She has already let one child wander into the street unattended. These are the behaviors you need to be recording and giving to your lawyer. Not all judges get angry about the use of PIs. 

You also need to uncover all her e-mails to the OM and print them out if you can. Like you say, you ahve not told us all the things you have done, but that is one thing you need to do. 

good move on cancelling the credit cards, etc. You also need to move your paycheck to an account in your name only so she cannot access the cash. Are you paying for her cell phone? Have it cancelled if you are.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best

if your family owns the house, talk to the lawyer to see if they can have her evicted some way. put her azz out.


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## armywife0520

Wow. I am so sorry you are being treated this way. I applaud you over and over again for your commitment to your marriage as I feel the same way. I know the pain and it is just indescribable. I'm so glad to hear you are trying the 180! Keep it going. Stand your ground. Take the bull by the horns and make the children your sole priority, don't depend on her for anything because she is clearly in another world. At a certain point there has to be an ultimatum and that might be the only thing to make her snap out of it. Unfortunately your story is so common and it breaks my heart because as a wife I just can't understand how you could ever treat the man you promised God you would honor and cherish this way. Again I am so sorry and I'm going to pray for you and your family! God Bless.


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## 67flh

i would also check with your lawyer about delaying putting that house in your name...sure would hate to owe her half


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## Shaggy

Pull the trigger AND expose her affair far and wife, family friend and at the gym.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bryanp

1. Get Tested for STD's
2. Expose to the OM's wife or girlfriend
3. See a lawyer now
4. PROTECT YOUR CHILDREN NOW! File for full custody. Your children are at great risk.
5. If the roles were reversed would she be as accepting as you have been?
6. Her actions show clearly she has no respect for you or your family. For God Sake's man: If you do not respect yourself then who will? Good luck.


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## EleGirl

I know you are not talking about moving out yourself.. but just want to make sure to warn you to not move out and leave the children with her.

Talk to a lawyer about how to handle it if she tries to move out with the children. DO NOT let her remove the children from the family home.

Ask her to move out as you cannot take her having an affair in front of you and the children. She just might move in with a friend or family member.

It's good that you have money an account for an attorney. But you need see one ASAP for advice. It is best that you file as soon as possible to protect your children. This way she cannot remove them from the home. YOu can always stop the divorce if you two reconcile.


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## AngryandUsed

bryanp said:


> 1. Get Tested for STD's
> 2. Expose to the OM's wife or girlfriend
> 3. See a lawyer now
> 4. PROTECT YOUR CHILDREN NOW! File for full custody. Your children are at great risk.
> 5. If the roles were reversed would she be as accepting as you have been?
> 6. Her actions show clearly she has no respect for you or your family. For God Sake's man: If you do not respect yourself then who will? Good luck.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
Man, she has no respect for you. No remorse. Take care of yourself and kids first. Run.


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## Initfortheduration

:iagree::iagree::iagree: You have to divorce. It is the only way to start to clear her fog. She has to face the sincere consequences of what she has done, if she is to shake the fog she is in. Have you exposed to her family? If not threaten to expose unless she goes home for an extended visit, have her dad or brother come out there and put her in the car. Definitely no sex. No idea what diseases she may have.


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## kilobit

She has absolutely no respect for anything, I feel like I have spoiled her and sheltered her from the real world to a degree. I keep wanting to wait for her to snap out of this phase, hoping she will realize what she has done before it really is completely Done. She has been such a huge part of my life but she definitely is vain about allot of things and takes them for granted. She might not ever get out of this she is in. I just feel stuck at this point.


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## Jellybeans

Well if she wants a separation, give it to her. But tell her she can leave since it's her decision. Tell her you won't live in an open marriage. File for separation at minimum, since it's what she wants, and move on with your life. 

You can't make someone want to stay with you if they want out. She is doing you a favor.


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## oldmittens

Edit:


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## kilobit

She wanted seperation but has no job and no where to go. She is now acting like she is planning on staying here in the house. I feel dead inside almost all my hope is gone. If she had a change of heart it would be something to consider but it hasn't happened yet. I refuse to live together out of convenience.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans

FILE. What are you waiting for????


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## snap

Expect a sudden change of her attitude when you file.


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## kilobit

A few other things I didn't mention which is probably assumed is that since this all started there has been complete alienation of affection. I used to believe that was just a legal term but know I know that its more than that. I have been extremely needy to her the past couple months and now I don't feel that way at all. Its amazing how you can spend so much time together then one day that person just doesn't love you anymore and treats you like total crap and disrespect
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma

kilobit said:


> I have $8000 in a lawyers account ready to pull the trigger but I love this woman and i cant bear to do this.
> 
> 
> Any help or direction would be appreciated.


Pull the trigger and get yourself tested.

Do it now


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## MrK

kilobit said:


> ...I was 19 and she was 17.


After your divorce, go on a public speaking tour and tell all of those high school juniors and seniors talking about marriage that their "love" is NO different than any of the 90+ or so % of these types of relationships that end painfully.


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## Chaparral

Your only hope is to file divorce and have her served asap. You need to expose this to her family now. You need to find out if the other man is married of has a geirlfriend and expose to them also. 

You need to expose the OM to the gym management immediately. Check with your attorney about sending a letter to gym management. Cancel membership at the gym.

Start reading here: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html


Number one is to memorize the 180 and stick to it. You will probably mess up at times but get back on the 180 if you do. It works. It will get you ready to move on and a side effect of the 180 is that it makes you more attractive and may help your wife want to comeback to you.

Do not argue do not show anger!


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## Jellybeans

MrK said:


> After your divorce, go on a public speaking tour and tell all of those high school juniors and seniors talking about marriage that their "love" is NO different than any of the 90+ or so % of these types of relationships that end painfully.


They wouldn't listen anyway.


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## working_together

kilobit said:


> She has absolutely no respect for anything, I feel like I have spoiled her and sheltered her from the real world to a degree. I keep wanting to wait for her to snap out of this phase, hoping she will realize what she has done before it really is completely Done. She has been such a huge part of my life but she definitely is vain about allot of things and takes them for granted. She might not ever get out of this she is in. I just feel stuck at this point.


She's not going to snap out of it. At this time she does not give a rat's ass about you. Keep that in mind always as you proceed with divorce, get her out of the house, let her feel like what it means to be alone and with no money. You let her live a comfortable life, and she too advantage of your kindness. AND, she got an STD? and YOU paid the bill, just great.

She's been cold towards you for years, showing no affection. Even if and a big if, she shows any remorse, she's not going to change very quickly. Are you willing to wait. Look, I agree with marriage should be for ever, but people will survive with divorce, and so will the kids.

good luck


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## working_together

kilobit said:


> She wanted seperation but has no job and no where to go. She is now acting like she is planning on staying here in the house. I feel dead inside almost all my hope is gone. If she had a change of heart it would be something to consider but it hasn't happened yet. I refuse to live together out of convenience.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do not pay for ANYTHING that allows her to continue her lifestyle. Cancel the gym membership right now. Don't listen to her screams, her crying, her pleading, yada yada yada, it's all about OM now, not you.

Cut her off financially, pay the bills for the house and kids and that is it.


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## sinnister

Try and remember the man you've always wanted to be. Now look at what she has turned you into. A man willing to be cuckolded, pay all the bills and be constantly cheated and worse...she neglects your kids.

Find that man you pictured yourself being...and kick her ass out.


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## kilobit

Wow it seems everyone is so negative. Guess that's the reality of it! She called me earlier after her counseling appointment and said there its no more money in our account and asked me about paying for "mothers morning out" childcare at the YMCA at 150 dollars a month. I told her that's wasting money if she stays at home the time anyway. Of course she said well talk about this when you get home. Wow I am getting screwed over here. Do women ever come out of this coma they are living in or is this permanent?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## working_together

kilobit said:


> Wow it seems everyone is so negative. Guess that's the reality of it! She called me earlier after her counseling appointment and said there its no more money in our account and asked me about paying for "mothers morning out" childcare at the YMCA at 150 dollars a month. I told her that's wasting money if she stays at home the time anyway. Of course she said well talk about this when you get home. Wow I am getting screwed over here. Do women ever come out of this coma they are living in or is this permanent?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's reality, we're not trying to be negative, I lived it as a WW, and know it has to be done. Yes, it felt harsh, but it saved my marriage.

Do not pay for her morning out, no freebies from you so she can chat and have coffee or whatever she is doing. Activities for the kids, I'm all for that though. It might be safer for the kid to be in pre-school then in her care.

And yes, women do come out of this state eventually, it takes a while though, and it all depends on you and how you treat her affair. It's an addiction for her now, she will go through the withdrawls when and if it ends. The only thing important to her right now is feeding her high.

I'm sorry this sounds so harsh, 

good luck, and don't let her change her mind when she gets home and wants to "talk about it". Put your foot down, and never waver.


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## working_together

Tell her you will pay the bill for the Ymca, it will no longer come out of a joint account. This way she can't take any of the money for herself. Does she work out at the Y?


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## kilobit

Yes she does work out there alot..sometimes 4 hours in the morning. As far as the affair, I think it was a fling she had for a couple Weeks nothing more. Apparently she didn't know alot about the guy and Im aboUT positive she is not doing it anymore (pi). she has come out of the clouds alot now then went through a being single phase wanting to party alot. She has no idea the pain she has put me through at all. I feel like I want to wait for her to possibly change before doing anything drastic. Limbo sucks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

She goes out partying without her man? 

You are whipped.


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## Chaparral

chapparal said:


> She goes out partying without her man?
> 
> You are whipped.


No wonder she is a target for another man.


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## 67flh

kilo--- NOONE works out for 4 hours at a time...even the great arnold didn't.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

Reality check.

This is going to take extreme measures. 

What gives you the only real chance of reconciling your marriage and saving your family will require that you act against all of your instincts. Not just what you know, or think... But what you feel. 

It will be the hardest thing you have ever done. Even then, the chances of your marriage surviving this are dire. Half a$$ this and your just along for the ride... It's over, just a matter of time and damage. 

If you think you have the strength to do what it takes, buckle your seatbelt and grab the wheel... Either way, this is going to leave a mark. 

Swallow this right now. Your marriage is over, the wife you know is long gone. You do have a chance of building a new relationship with her, But you are not going to fix the old one. This can't be fixed. It has to be dozed to the ground and rebuilt. 



kilobit said:


> Wow it seems everyone is so negative.


It is negative, this is bad. really really bad. 

This is your reality now. I'm sorry bro, it would be a diservice to you if we didn't tell you the truth. Fight it all you want, it wont change it. 

Again, Im sorry brother. This is a harsh situation your in. No one is trying to be jaded or hurtful to you. There are no rose colored glasses and she is not going to "wake up". You have to accept this and get to work.

We are rooting for you, but the odds are stacked against you and if you keep looking for silver lining your going to get eaten alive. I feel terrible for you, and understand all to well your pain, but our pity is not going to help you now. You need to take action.


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## morituri

working_together said:


> She's not going to snap out of it. At this time she does not give a rat's ass about you. Keep that in mind always as you proceed with divorce, get her out of the house, let her feel like what it means to be alone and with no money. You let her live a comfortable life, and she too advantage of your kindness. AND, she got an STD? and YOU paid the bill, just great.
> 
> She's been cold towards you for years, showing no affection. Even if and a big if, she shows any remorse, she's not going to change very quickly. Are you willing to wait. Look, I agree with marriage should be for ever, but people will survive with divorce, and so will the kids.
> 
> good luck



:iagree::iagree::iagree:


In situations like yours, the separation is used to continue with the affair out in the open without feeling the guilt of cheating since in her mind, separation means not married. 

Working_Together can attest to this but unlike your wife, she woke up, ended her affair with the OM, got back together with her husband and recommitted to him and her marriage. And unlike your wife, she has taken ownership of her affair. Only until your wife does the things that Working_Together has done, will there be any hope for your marriage.


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## warlock07

timbre has a very similar thread in the private members forum. He had a similar attitude initially. he learnt i the hard way too. It is hard and extremely frustrating to see a honest BS being misguided and doing it the wrong way inspite of the suggestions of forum members and getting burnt. Some people just learn the hard way. 

I have a suggestion. Maybe we should start a thread in the Infidelity section where the BS (or former FWS)
1)summarizes his/her story. 
2)How he/she found out, 
3)how he reacted. 
4)How he thinks he should have acted and 
5)how it ended. (Divorce or R)


then sticky the thread.

It will be a good reference point to all the newer BS who think that their case is unique and their marriage is special. Do you think it is a good idea?


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## working_together

kilobit said:


> Yes she does work out there alot..sometimes 4 hours in the morning. As far as the affair, I think it was a fling she had for a couple Weeks nothing more. Apparently she didn't know alot about the guy and Im aboUT positive she is not doing it anymore (pi). she has come out of the clouds alot now then went through a being single phase wanting to party alot. She has no idea the pain she has put me through at all. I feel like I want to wait for her to possibly change before doing anything drastic. Limbo sucks.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



She has lost the right to go out and party. I'm pretty strict on the GNO thing. Never believed in it unless the person was single, it's asking for trouble.


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## Initfortheduration

I am constantly amazed at every new BS. It is literally the same in every thread. 90% of the time the male goes totally Beta. Chases, cries, begs, pleads. Gives them a do-over (which they gladly accept, and do-overs the OM again). It seems to average anywhere from a month to 4 months for the BS to wake from his fog and finally sees her for what she is, not what he thought she was. Then he finally works the 180, separates finances, exposes, kicks her out. And then all of a sudden the wife's fog clears. And its her turn to beg. 

I just wonder why do these men put themselves through it, for months, when the beta male approach never works. At best they get the entitled, cheating wife back with no changes.


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## Entropy3000

kilobit said:


> Yes she does work out there alot..sometimes 4 hours in the morning. As far as the affair, I think it was a fling she had for a couple Weeks nothing more. Apparently she didn't know alot about the guy and Im aboUT positive she is not doing it anymore (pi). she has come out of the clouds alot now then went through a being single phase wanting to party alot. She has no idea the pain she has put me through at all. I feel like I want to wait for her to possibly change before doing anything drastic. Limbo sucks.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Waiting for her to possibly change. Really!? Either you take action and give the persona of a man she can respect or do nothing and provide her with the impetus to keep disrespecting you.

It is a lazy and ambivalent to do nothing. We understand as this wears you out. Works out for four hours ... right...

She wants to party a lot ... with the boys. Wow. Acting single. Well why not? No consequences to it.


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## Entropy3000

kilobit said:


> Wow it seems everyone is so negative. Guess that's the reality of it! She called me earlier after her counseling appointment and said there its no more money in our account and asked me about paying for "mothers morning out" childcare at the YMCA at 150 dollars a month. I told her that's wasting money if she stays at home the time anyway. Of course she said well talk about this when you get home. Wow I am getting screwed over here. Do women ever come out of this coma they are living in or is this permanent?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It just gets worse if you do not man up about it. They continue to lose respect for anyone being a doormat. It takes boundaries and consequences to have a chance.


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## warlock07

Well, sex is one kind of workout..TBH


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## MoMo

Been there, Kilo, been there...........eventually, she might have remorse, but they are absolutely CRAZY when in the midst of an affair--its always YOU that has something wrong...........so keep your head clear. NO--you are NOT crazy! NO--you are not "imagining" her crazy behavior............good luck to you, I hope you find lots of love and support from your family.


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## TRy

kilobit said:


> She called me earlier after her counseling appointment and said there its no more money in our account and asked me about paying for "mothers morning out" childcare at the YMCA at 150 dollars a month.


 "mothers morning out" with who? No way you should pay for this.


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## Dadof3

I think its the program where the mothers drop their kids off at the Y, then climb in OM's car and disappear for 4 hours!

Yea - thats it! Dat's da ticket!


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## MoMo

Dadof3 said:


> I think its the program where the mothers drop their kids off at the Y, then climb in OM's car and disappear for 4 hours!
> 
> Yea - thats it! Dat's da ticket!


LOL--Too funny.........but sadly, prolly very true!:rofl:


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## spudster

> She called me earlier after her counseling appointment and said there its no more money in our account and asked me about paying for "mothers morning out" childcare at the YMCA at 150 dollars a month.


You gotta be effen' kidding me!!!

Kilobit... seriously... you need to cut off all her luxuries. She goes to the gym to make herself more attractive to other men. Don't facilitate her cheating any longer!


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

Probably not listening anymore. At least for now. This is usually the time when the smogged LS checks into denial mode for a while. 

Alot to take in, reading this reality will cause most newly hurt/ still smogged LS's to sprinkle grains of "we are all bitter & jaded"/"this is different " salt on everything said to them. 

Hope not. Poor guy's in a really bad spot, didnt have a good feeling about reading this.


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## hookares

The OP should suggest that her stud pay all of her expenses. In that way, when down the road he dumps her, she can figure out that she's been selling it, all along.
She clearly isn't the gal he thinks he doesn't wish to lose and the sooner he figures it out, the better off he will be.


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## kilobit

I cant believe after re-reading this how much of a chump I sound like, hah this is NOT me I am completely blinded by all that she has put me through. I feel like a total *****..unbelievable.

Also, can someone give me some examples of cutting her off emotionality. I'm a newb at this.


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## Chaparral

kilobit said:


> I cant believe after re-reading this how much of a chump I sound like, hah this is NOT me I am completely blinded by all that she has put me through. I feel like a total *****..unbelievable.
> 
> Also, can someone give me some examples of cutting her off emotionality. I'm a newb at this.


Here is the 180. It is designed to help you reclaim your life. A side effect is that it makes you more attractive and especially to your wife. Make sure you understand that you don't get angry. Controlling your emotions is most improtant.


The 180
April 15 2011 at 8:48 AM Ami (Login Amistandingstill)
Healing Moderator 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So many on here are at a loss at what to do with a WS who is
fence sitting, cake-eating, ignoring boundaries, still seeing and/or contacting the other person, etc...

Many BS's are urged to go No Contact with their WS after ALL ELSE has failed.


This 180 list may help.
--------------------------


For those that are interested in Michelle Weiner Davis's divorce busting 180 degree list, here it is:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow him/her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
23. Do not argue about how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and possibly walk away.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because they are hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.


2 things to think about if you do this:

1) You have to do the 180 list NOT to be manipulative but because it's the right thing to do for you. You have to heal from this experience. You have to back off for your own sanity now. You have to have a plan and know that you will be a better person with or without them after all is said and done -- that you will live and learn and move on no matter what. So you have to be geniune when you follow these ideas, rather than faking it and being insincere because your only goal is to get them back. That's not what you want to do. Having a certain person as our spouse is not a need, it's a want. When I wrote down a list of all the definite needs in my life, I realized that almost everything beyond food, clothing and shelter is a want. 10 seconds after I looked at the list, I stopped making decisions based on emotion. That's when I realized that my wanting to have her was causing me to beg and plead for her to come back. That was driving her away more so I stopped doing it immediately. In doing my own version of the 180 list I could tell nearly an immediate change in her behavior.

2) Realize that when your spouse sees your new attitude they are very likely to be a little jealous or at least have some curiosity about what's going on in your life to cause this change. However, they very well may react the same way towards you for some time (especially if they read books or go to message boards also). REALIZE that this tactic can also work simultaneously on you if the spouse begins to likewise. Be aware of it and plan to have your own feelings of jealousy and curiosity in advance. However, like with #1 above, if you're doing the 180 list to better yourself and everyone involved, then it will matter less what they are doing.


----------



## Chaparral

Also you want to start reading here;

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html


Good luck and be strong, I think you have a good chance at making this work out. Prayers for your family.

A book you need to get and read with your wife is "His Needs Her Needs." If she will cooperate, this book along with a few others can work miracles.
One thing it will help you with is why she feels the need to look for other men to fill some of her needs.


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## spudster

> I cant believe after re-reading this how much of a chump I sound like, hah this is NOT me I am completely blinded by all that she has put me through. I feel like a total *****..unbelievable.
> 
> Also, can someone give me some examples of cutting her off emotionality. I'm a newb at this.


Quit beating yourself up. They don't issue textbooks for this when you're growing up. Do the 180 hard, and don't deviate. 

Its not about cutting her off emotionally, its about disengagement. If she starts yelling and screaming at you, throwing a tantrum, tell her calmly that you will talk to her when she calms down and is ready to act like an adult. Don't be afraid to literally turn away from her and walk away if she starts abusing you. 

If she starts crying and pleading, act like Mr. Spock towards her. You don't have to be mean or cruel, just _do not engage_. The whole idea is to start conditioning yourself to not be stimulated emotionally by her in any way. The ultimate goal is to get to the point where you no longer require her emotional validation to know you are a strong, independent person. Right now you are still seeking validation, and that is why you fail. 

No physical contact of any kind. No kissing, hand-holding, sleeping together, and absolutely no sex!!

Be polite but aloof. 

Only talk about the children and general household business, not about the marriage. If she wants to talk marriage, tell her it has to be in the confines of marriage counseling. 

Do not call her, text her or communicate with for any reason except when coordinating about the kids. 

Do not pay for any extras. She gets food, a car, gas and a roof over her head. Nothing else! Do not provide her anything that will facilitate her cheating. Her sugar-daddy can give her all that stuff.


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## Dadof3

Follow the 180 plan identified as a sticky in the infidelity forum. That will help you unattach emotionally.


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## kilobit

These are allot of conflicting results here my heart lies with these last few posts. I haven't done that yet I'm going to try really hard on that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

Also check this out...........Married Man Sex Life


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## Chaparral

kilobit said:


> These are allot of conflicting results here my heart lies with these last few posts. I haven't done that yet I'm going to try really hard on that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The good thing is manning up may very well save your marriage. As you can see it may seem it is the opposite of what you have been doing. However, it has proven to work here over and over and over. Alpha men are attractive to women. That is unargueable. Even if you can't salvage your marriage, it will get you ready for your next relationship.

The most important thing is to stand up, be a man and convince yourself and HER, that unless things change you will be fine with divorce. Right now she doesn't think you have the guts.

DO NOT LEAVE YOUR HOUSE. She is the one who cheated, she should leave if she starts telling you you need to get out. Leaving can be construed as abandoning the kids i9f you have to go through divorce.

No arguing, no anger. Ireally liked the Mr. Spock exmple. She needs to see the new you.


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## kilobit

Ok, the 180 stuff is wonderful and I will try that but first I must know if my wife has an std or some disease. I have approached her and she will not tell me. She says thats her personal business and will not give that info up. Im controlling im just wanting to invade her privacy, blah blah. She is a ****ing idiot.


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## spudster

kilobit said:


> Ok, the 180 stuff is wonderful and I will try that but first I must know if my wife has an std or some disease. I have approached her and she will not tell me. She says thats her personal business and will not give that info up. Im controlling im just wanting to invade her privacy, blah blah. She is a ****ing idiot.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

kilobit said:


> Ok, the 180 stuff is wonderful and I will try that but first I must know if my wife has an std or some disease. I have approached her and she will not tell me. She says thats her personal business and will not give that info up. Im controlling im just wanting to invade her privacy, blah blah. She is a ****ing idiot
> 
> Check every where to see what kind of medicine she is taking. If she had the STD test would not that mean only one thing?


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## spudster

kilobit said:


> Ok, the 180 stuff is wonderful and I will try that but first I must know if my wife has an std or some disease. I have approached her and she will not tell me. She says thats her personal business and will not give that info up. Im controlling im just wanting to invade her privacy, blah blah. She is a ****ing idiot.


Again, quit egaging dammit! Of course she's not going to tell you! 

Go to the Dr and get tested. Do not rely on her for anything or to ever tell you the truth.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

spudster said:


> Again, quit egaging dammit! Of course she's not going to tell you!
> 
> Go to the Dr and get tested. Do not rely on her for anything or to ever tell you the truth.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This. You can say to the dr. You are afraid she may ave given it to you. See what they test you for.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KanDo

You DON'T need to know whether your wife has an STD. You need to know whether YOU have and STD. GET CHECKED and stop all non-essential engagement with her


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## Dadof3

I think her not telling you about the STD should be a deal breaker for the marriage. Do not pass GO - DO NOT COLLECT $200. 

Go straight to DIVORCE.


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## TRy

Dadof3 said:


> I think her not telling you about the STD should be a deal breaker for the marriage. Do not pass GO - DO NOT COLLECT $200.
> 
> Go straight to DIVORCE.


:iagree::iagree::iagree: Your marriage is really over. Sorry it has reached this point.


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## lordmayhem

OMFG. I swear, what is it with the self entitlement that some of these SAHM's have?

This one seems to have it partcularly easy. Hubby works all day, while she doesn't have to work. Then she spends practically half the day at the "gym", goofs off for the rest of the day then fixes dinner. I bet the house is a mess, with dishes piled up in the sink. She goes to the doc to get tested for STDs, sticks hubby with the bill. Sorry, but if I'm paying my wife's doctor bill, then I better know what its for. To top it off she wants hubby to pay for child care so she can go goof off with OM. Talk about a spoiled, self-entitled SAHM. She don't know how good she has it.

I would NOT be surprised if there is a whole group of other SAHMs she hangs out with at the gym that are doing this. I'm sure most of us have noticed this at one time or another: The lone female or group of females who come to the gym all "made up" and don't really seem to be working out too hard, but seem to be flirting and talking to the guys there.

Stop financing her spoiled lifestyle and affair! Cancel her gym membership. If she wont twll you what the STD test is for, refuse to pay for it. And follow the excellent advice of the previous posters.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kilobit

Well, I think I got somewhere last night. We sat down for 3 hours drank wine and talked, which has been normal in the past but last night was different. I completely agreed with her on EVERYTHING boy she is in the clouds she put me down incredibly i thought she was joking but just listened and agreed with her. I told her thinks like I know she will find what she wants, I know she has the determination and strength to get it. She broke down crying 3 different times i didnt touch her or anything just listened and agreed more. She I think started to realize maybe for a second that she was not being rational. Will continue this have to work....


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## kilobit

...after she started crying for the third time she really opened up and actually would not shut up. Kept talking and talking. Initially before all this I was determined to know about the test results I never found out but didn't press the issue anymore cause she was opening up. She wanted to know if I could watch the kids in the evening of she got a night job. I said probably not at first, I mean if out doesn't benefit all of us then in not doing it. There is plenty of you're during the day while the kids are at school to get a job..didn't get a chance to tell her that but I will. I think me listening and agreeing really worked, but I have to bee stern and stand ground too. I said 1 that she should do what she feels she's passionate about and not take her mind off of it and 2 of her dreams are not with her family I will protect that, hence cut her off with everything. It seemed like she understood that a little too. Problem is this woman has had no respect for me as a person. That needs to be fixed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## snap

Agreeing to everything will not bring up any respect for you.


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## kilobit

Maybe not but its breaking her shell and I see improvement. The respect will come by setting and maintaining my bounderies. Aka cutting her of for her actions
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rrrbbbttt

Let me understand this, you pay for her to have the kids away while she goes to the gym and has an affair with OM. She now wants you to watch the kids at night so that she can be away from the house, which is you and the kids, at a supposed job?

Yeah, this is really going well.


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## lordmayhem

rrrbbbttt said:


> Let me understand this, you pay for her to have the kids away while she goes to the gym and has an affair with OM. She now wants you to watch the kids at night so that she can be away from the house, which is you and the kids, at a supposed job?
> 
> Yeah, this is really going well.


:iagree:

STILL being manipulated and refuses to do the 180. Put on a little waterworks, and agree a little. She plays him very well. Oh well. You can lead a horse to water...


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## kilobit

I have not refused to do the 180 that's what I'm trying to do. I'm trying all options before we are separated or divorced. There is NOTHING I will not try to prevent those things. I'm not going to enable her to do anything. Not sure if you are reading this right. I have read this book How to Get My Ex-Girlfriend or Wife Back out has some great tips and I'm seeing results with it, it's similar to the 180. I'm all ears at this point. I also know I am sending her mixed messages too by trying both. We do have to talk about the kids etc and I'm living with her so no connection is out the question. Hell I'm confused.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kilobit

Ok beta = gone. Alpha here! Going to read the links and posts from a few pages ago and will need some help with the 180 numbers 12,13,14,15,17,27,28,34 
I will get there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Initfortheduration

I think you listening to all her *****es and complaints about your marriage, may have actually helped her realize that she is full of BS. I wouldn't do it again. Use the 180. Next time she wants to do it. Real nice, just say: *"You know, I sat and listened to you and received what I thought were the realistic points in what you were saying. And I will apply it for future reference in trying to improve myself. BUT, we won't be doing it again, you need to focus on owning what you did and who you are. That's a full plate for you. So lets just not go there".* Again, real nice. Then change the subject to kids or finances or excuse yourself for an important phone call. Good luck.


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## Chaparral

You did good except about agree wtih her maybe. What did you agree to? Sounded like you agreed to anything she said. Do not argue but don't agree with something detrimental to ypou or the family. Sounds klikeshe wants to work at night(part time) so she can play with OM during the day. Uh,noooo...........

20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
23. Do not argue about how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and possibly walk away.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because they are hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.

She wanted to talk about it. It was right to listen.


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## Chaparral

The 180 isn't really hard. Its a way of life(with some exceptions when your spouse comes out of the fog) that will help you always.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

Sigh.....

tell me, do you think that sitting there listening to a drug addict spew total bullsh*t for hours is going to do anything to get them to to quit ? There is a time and place to talk... Its not now. 

Your lonely and hurt. You miss your wife. The time you spent letting her regurgitate her nonsense made you feel closer to her for a moment.. hence the "i got through for a minute" crap your convincing yourself of... It was filling your void to do this and you try to convince yourself it was helpful. It wasn't. Your wife is VERY VERY far gone. Deeply delusional. Trying to put a band-aid on a axe wound is not going to help anything. Action bro, extreme and monumental action. That is the medicine she needs, and your too weak to give it to her. 

The 180 you plan is not extreme, and no where near what it will take. The 180 is for YOU not her, it will not shake her out of this. It will likely do little to nothing to her or for her. It's not supposed to.


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## kilobit

Pit-of-my-stomach... Just to let you know, I didn't give in on anything she said. I'm honestly completely emotionality disconnected from her but she wanted to talk and I listened and have little input. The conversation did not sway me one way or another with my feelings. Maybe it was unfair of me to tell her I understand and be compassionate about her feelings, and out not affect me emotionally but then again I think I made it clear to her that I want her to be happy and go get what she wants in life..I really want her to be happy, however I made it perfectly clear to her that i do not and will not support her new endeavors.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem

What you did by allowing her to crap on you by putting you down and then you agreeing with everything she said, only validated her bullsh!t excuses for her affair. 

There is NEVER any excuse to have an affair. You're only responsible for 50% of the state of the marriage prior to the affair. The affair is 100% her responsibility to own. She could have dealt with your issues in other ways, like communicating, going to MC or IC, or just leave you. Instead she chose to cheat.

Besides, she's a cake eater (from having their cake and eating it too). She wants the financial security of marriage (since she doesn't work and you finance her affairs and lifestyle) while she seeks validation from OTHER MEN. She doesn't respect you because to her, you are only the provider, the man who pays the bills and watches the kids. You are the gravy train. That's what you are to her. Don't let her be a cake eater.


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## kilobit

Right on and no more!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem

kilobit said:


> Right on and no more!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Now that's more like it. You're in the initial days after DDay, so everything is still fluid. Right now you don't know if you want to R or D. This decision will be for later. Your first priority is to kill this affair, while manning up, separating your finances, and filing for D. Just because you file doesn't mean you will go thru with it, you can put a halt to the process at any time or cancel it if she becomes remorseful and is deserving of the precious gift of R. The WS needs a reality check, often needing to stand on the edge of the abyss before coming to their senses. Filing for D serves her notice that you are no one's back up plan and that you are serious about walking away from the marriage if it comes down to it.


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## kilobit

In NC you heave to wait a year before divorcing. I was going to draw up separation papers with all my demands on it. I will not be negotiable with it either, aka primary custody. if she doesn't like it she will have to get her own attorney which she has no money for. Only thing is my lawyer is very expensive, that's another reason why I wanted to try every avenue before we got seperated. She initially said last night she didn't think she could her her goals living on the same house. But that was before she started breaking down.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kilobit

Another tidbit of information which I'm not proud to admit was I told her 3 Weeks ago of she talked or saw him I wouldn't let her back in the house. I know I can't do that but I really wanted her out. So I threw all her clothes in the driveway. She called the police they came but couldn't do anything, then she said if I went back to my lawyer that she would pUT a restraining order on me , which she also tried and that failed too. I have a clean record not abusive at all. 
The main thing that worries me is that I don't think she can mentally handle our children.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

You should be proud of that. 

Are you saying she went to see him after you told her that and then you threw hre clothes in the driveway?

Have you talked to OM's boss? Why not?


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## kilobit

That's another story, I don't personally know him or his name. That information would be revealed in court but I'm not talking about it on here. I did call him and leave a message at one point of all of this on front of her. She didn't stop me either. Just left a respectful message telling him we are trying to work on our marriage and to respect that, blah blah he goes to the y


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## working_together

lordmayhem said:


> OMFG. I swear, what is it with the self entitlement that some of these SAHM's have?
> 
> This one seems to have it partcularly easy. Hubby works all day, while she doesn't have to work. Then she spends practically half the day at the "gym", goofs off for the rest of the day then fixes dinner. I bet the house is a mess, with dishes piled up in the sink. She goes to the doc to get tested for STDs, sticks hubby with the bill. Sorry, but if I'm paying my wife's doctor bill, then I better know what its for. To top it off she wants hubby to pay for child care so she can go goof off with OM. Talk about a spoiled, self-entitled SAHM. She don't know how good she has it.
> 
> I would NOT be surprised if there is a whole group of other SAHMs she hangs out with at the gym that are doing this. I'm sure most of us have noticed this at one time or another: The lone female or group of females who come to the gym all "made up" and don't really seem to be working out too hard, but seem to be flirting and talking to the guys there.
> 
> Stop financing her spoiled lifestyle and affair! Cancel her gym membership. If she wont twll you what the STD test is for, refuse to pay for it. And follow the excellent advice of the previous posters.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I had a brief membership at the Y, and although not as bad as some other places, some of the women in there came in with outfits that made my jaw open. I couldn't take the staring and gauking that was going on. I just wanted to scream out "[email protected] off". And yeah, some of the moms had their kids in the Y like I did, but they weren't the ones that were all dressed up, they actually were pretty decent people. It was the older women in their late 30's early 40's, make up on etc. they were chatting and flirting like crazy.


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## working_together

rrrbbbttt said:


> Let me understand this, you pay for her to have the kids away while she goes to the gym and has an affair with OM. She now wants you to watch the kids at night so that she can be away from the house, which is you and the kids, at a supposed job?
> 
> Yeah, this is really going well.


I agree, look, you have the money in order that she can stay at home, do you really want her going to work after finding out she had (or still is)having an affair....she may carry on the same one, or pick up another one. It would drive you crazy with wondering what she is doing during her shift.


----------



## working_together

She wasn't opening up, she was blame shifting.


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## lordmayhem

working_together said:


> I had a brief membership at the Y, and although not as bad as some other places, some of the women in there came in with outfits that made my jaw open. I couldn't take the staring and gauking that was going on. I just wanted to scream out "[email protected] off". And yeah, some of the moms had their kids in the Y like I did, but they weren't the ones that were all dressed up, they actually were pretty decent people. It was the older women in their late 30's early 40's, make up on etc. they were chatting and flirting like crazy.


The gym is a pretty good place for hooking up nowadays from what I've seen and heard from others. Yes, over the years, I too had to ogle some of the outfits some of the ladies were wearing. This type of behavior makes it difficult for the women who go there to legitimately work out. Although it is easier to spot the ones who are looking to hook up: They hardly break a sweat.


----------



## working_together

lordmayhem said:


> The gym is a pretty good place for hooking up nowadays from what I've seen and heard from others. Yes, over the years, I too had to ogle some of the outfits some of the ladies were wearing. This type of behavior makes it difficult for the women who go there to legitimately work out. Although it is easier to spot the ones who are looking to hook up: They hardly break a sweat.


thanks for making me laugh. lol

I stopped going during the day so I could avoid all that stuff. I started going at dinner time, but then I had guys my son's age gauking at me....grossed me out.


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## kilobit

working_together said:


> I agree, look, you have the money in order that she can stay at home, do you really want her going to work after finding out she had (or still is)having an affair....she may carry on the same one, or pick up another one. It would drive you crazy with wondering what she is doing during her shift.


That's true but honestly why would I care! This all started 3 months ago. Tons and tons of grieving I have been through. I was at her parents (me and her father have a good relationship) and I just broke down and he was comforting to me, then unexpectedly her and her mom gets back from shopping in the midst of my breakdown, walks up and tells me I need to toughen up! Lol her mom about slapped her, I left. There are countless other times that I will remember my whole life. So honestly I don't think she can do much more to hurt me. A night job I will not support. But if she does I can't stop her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri

kilobit said:


> then unexpectedly her and her mom gets back from shopping in the midst of my breakdown, walks up and tells me I need to toughen up!


You do need to toughen up and you do that by serving her with divorce papers.


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## lordmayhem

Then you can say "Is that tough enough for you honey?"

BTW, her insulting you like that in front of her parents is proof positive about how little she respects you.


----------



## kilobit

is there any other fog clearing ideas besides divorce papers. That is really expensive not sure I can afford all of that neither one of us have alot of assets besides our children.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadof3

if you know who OM is, where he lives, do this:

1 - Pack a bag of her clothes, place in the trunk of your car
2 - Ask her to take a ride with you. If she asks where, just say "just a ride"
3 - Drive her to OM's place, when you arrive, get her suitcase, put it on the front door step, and ask her to leave the car.

4 - Provided she gets out. Lock the doors to the car and leave.

She probably won't actually do #4. This will shock the Sh*t out of her!


----------



## spudster

> I made it clear to her that I want her to be happy and go get what she wants in life..I really want her to be happy, however I made it perfectly clear to her that i do not and will not support her new endeavors.


Gee. You are sooooo nice! 

If I am ever reincarnated, I hope I am reborn a ****ty woman so I can marry the reincarnated you, ***** myself out to other men, cut you down, emasculate you in front of my parents, laugh at you, disrespect you in front of my children, wrap you around my little finger and blame you for every bad decision I have ever made, and know in my heart of hearts that you will still love me unconditionally and roll over for me, and come back begging for more abuse....

You are just soooo nice!!!

man you are thick.


----------



## kilobit

spudster said:


> Gee. You are sooooo nice!
> 
> If I am ever reincarnated, I hope I am reborn a ****ty woman so I can marry the reincarnated you, ***** myself out to other men, cut you down, emasculate you in front of my parents, laugh at you, disrespect you in front of my children, wrap you around my little finger and blame you for every bad decision I have ever made, and know in my heart of hearts that you will still love me unconditionally and roll over for me, and come back begging for more abuse....
> 
> You are just soooo nice!!!
> 
> man you are thick.


Its funny you say that, a friend of mine just called me and says he wants to divorce his wife and marry me, lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## kilobit

I'm still having a very hard emotional battle here inside. My emotions are up and down daily. Maybe I need to get on meds. I'm having difficulty starting the 180. Just confused and can't think.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## spudster

> I'm still having a very hard emotional battle here inside. My emotions are up and down daily.


We know.

Your emotions are all you have talked about. In fact, you have been all talk.

Talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk....

Your wife isn't talking. She's doing.... another guy. 

A man of principle and integrity would have kicked the skank out already. Why don't you quit the pity party and take some action?


----------



## Chaparral

kilobit said:


> I'm still having a very hard emotional battle here inside. My emotions are up and down daily. Maybe I need to get on meds. I'm having difficulty starting the 180. Just confused and can't think.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How is it possible to find the 180 hard when your whole life and family hang in the balance? Please tell me you are not being whiney. Not acting needy. Are you being clingy? Are you crying? Because if you are you are going to make your wife puke. You are making the other man look so manly now. You are driveing your wife away.

Stop it and man up.

Read here: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html

If your going to wimp out just kiss her ass goodbye and get it over with. She can go play at the gym while you wimp out.


----------



## hookares

kilobit said:


> is there any other fog clearing ideas besides divorce papers. That is really expensive not sure I can afford all of that neither one of us have alot of assets besides our children.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


In spite of the cost, a divorce is the cheapest solution if you ever hope to find reasonable happiness in YOUR life. If you allow this behavior to go on, your children will only continue to reap the grief of it and things won't get better for you.
Re the fitness center hook up joints, I used to go to a couple a few years ago and the approaches are so evident that I quit going since it's hard to tell a married player from a single, especially if they are ten or more years younger than you.


----------



## aug

kilobit said:


> Its funny you say that, a friend of mine just called me and says he wants to divorce his wife and marry me, lol
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



It's probably his nice way of saying you need to show that you're a man?


----------



## aug

kilobit said:


> I'm still having a very hard emotional battle here inside. My emotions are up and down daily. Maybe I need to get on meds. I'm having difficulty starting the 180. Just confused and can't think.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



You need to detach. The 180 does that and helps with your up/down emotions.

The easiest way to start the 180 is a small step at a time.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

spudster said:


> Gee. You are sooooo nice!
> 
> If I am ever reincarnated, I hope I am reborn a ****ty woman so I can marry the reincarnated you, ***** myself out to other men, cut you down, emasculate you in front of my parents, laugh at you, disrespect you in front of my children, wrap you around my little finger and blame you for every bad decision I have ever made, and know in my heart of hearts that you will still love me unconditionally and roll over for me, and come back begging for more abuse....
> 
> You are just soooo nice!!!
> 
> man you are thick.



Ha ha ha you are right spundster, he is a real thick skinned man, I only wonder only if his wife never cheated him. Any man with self respect and dignity cant tolerate this kind of crap, lying, cheating and disrespectful wife. He couldnt even get the STD result from her and he wanted to repair. First let him repair his attitude and self esteem issues.:smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup::rofl:


----------



## kilobit

Yea think it is a younger guy, but anyway she did give m new the std results last night they are all negative for now. I then told her that our joint account will be closed today and no more YMCA, she didn't seem phased at all
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## rrrbbbttt

kilobit:
You came to this site for advise, you were given advise but all you can say " IT IS SO HARD" . 

Please move to France. There are more people like you there who when the foreign army moves in they throw up their arms and say "We Surrender" You will fell right at home.


----------



## Chaparral

kilobit said:


> Yea think it is a younger guy, but anyway she did give m new the std results last night they are all negative for now. I then told her that our joint account will be closed today and no more YMCA, she didn't seem phased at all
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh, she's phased all right. It just shows how well she can cover her emotions now when she is not telling the truth. She did not get an std test for nothing. 

Keep at the 180 or you will be manipulated out of your family.
Cancel credit cards too.


----------



## kilobit

Everything has been canceled at this point. Just a matter of time before she starters looking at assisted living places. Problem is that she is such a vengeful spiteful *****. She will not even watch the kids while I try to go to the gym to better myself. My only real options at getting out of the house are taking the kids roller skating.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Powerbane

Then you do just that - get out and bond with the kids. It will do them good and you as well. Being with you like this will form some really good memories for when they get older. 

You will survive man. The kids too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## aug

kilobit said:


> Everything has been canceled at this point. Just a matter of time before she starters looking at assisted living places. Problem is that she is such a vengeful spiteful *****. *She will not even watch the kids while I try to go to the gym to better myself.* My only real options at getting out of the house are taking the kids roller skating.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



When she's home, just leave and go to the gym. You dont need to ask her permission. What's she going to do? Leave right after you and abandon the kids? If so, *document that* and know she's worthless. Use that against her during the divorce.


----------



## aug

kilobit said:


> Yea think it is a younger guy, but *anyway she did give m new the std results last night they are all negative for now. *I then told her that our joint account will be closed today and no more YMCA, she didn't seem phased at all
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



That's pretty quick for STD results! I thought some of the STD tests takes quite a few days to perform?


----------



## kilobit

It was done Dec 15 so its about right.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## spudster

> When she's home, just leave and go to the gym. You dont need to ask her permission. What's she going to do? Leave right after you and abandon the kids? If so, document that and know she's worthless. Use that against her during the divorce.


Agreed. She is not your mom. Tell her your leaving for the gym and leave. Don't ask permission.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

kilobit said:


> Problem is that she is such a vengeful spiteful *****.


Your scared of her? That's cute.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

You have to change your entire way of thinking from top to bottom.

she's not vengeful and spiteful. She's shallow, selfish, egotistical, self entitled, spoiled and a pathetic excuse for a wife and mother. and YOU have enabled her to be this person, she gets away with it.

You have been with this women most of her adult life, and known her throughout much of her childhood. Your weakness is the fertile soil that has allowed her to grow into the women who is destroying you today. 

Stand up for your f*cking self and your children. This is unacceptable. You keep this sh*t up, she is going to eat you alive.

Im sorry if this is harsh Kilo. Im not trying to insult you. What your wife is doing to you is the most harsh thing that can happen to anyone. I can't stand to see or hear this.. You have choices, and it doesn't have to go down like this... you have the f*cking power... USE IT.


----------



## kilobit

Amen man 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hookares

kilobit said:


> Yea think it is a younger guy, but anyway she did give m new the std results last night they are all negative for now. I then told her that our joint account will be closed today and no more YMCA, she didn't seem phased at all
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Hope you aren't crawling in the sack with her. If she had no qualms in screwing this guy, you have no way of knowing who else she may be blowing and the last thing you want is to acquire some disease that causes your teeth to fall out.


----------



## kilobit

That's a negative on that
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thor

Get yourself tested regardless of what her tests show. Also, some of the tests such as Herpes and HIV won't be positive for 4 to 6 months after exposure.


----------



## spudster

Any updates? How's the 180 working?


----------



## the guy

My $0.02 is the best way to work on your self is with the kids. Damb it man take those kids and go out, take them out as much as you can and take them out with your WW. My thinking here is the more your chick sees her family slipping away the futher she will come out of the fog.

I would be taking them skating every day and at night go out for ice cream. Show your chick how capable you really are in handleing the kids with out her. In doing this , #1 will build a bond the kids will need latter on and #2 show your chick she is about to loose her family if she does not take the step to get her self fixed.

One more thing, remember the 180 plan is not about your chick, its about you and it is ment to protect your self from the emotional pain of a abusive spouse. The 180 is ment to build up the walls you need emotionaly until your spouse discontinues her unhealthy behaiors and refocuses her life on you and the kids.

The one 180 is for your emotional protection, it's not to get back your marriage of make your chick do something you want. It sets up an emotion indifference that helps you move forward with or with out your chick. They are boundries that are the walls you put up to protect your self from more pain.

Just like they say, you can't control them and they will tell you any thing they think you want to hear, but once you see action....healthy action then you can start to make adjustment that will help you move on for your self and it will be up to her to come along or not.


----------



## farsidejunky

Zombie.


----------



## Dyokemm

Hey...at least with a zombie thread like this....posters can tell newbies to look at it really quick....along with the advice:

DO NOT do what this guy did.


----------



## 3putt

Dyokemm said:


> Hey...at least with a zombie thread like this....posters can tell newbies to look at it really quick....along with the advice:
> 
> *DO NOT do what this guy did.*


Well, hell, you could say that about most BH threads around here these days.


----------



## MattMatt

Oops! This floated to the surface!


----------



## kilobit

Hello guys! this is just a follow up of this thread.....
Back when this was going on my wife wanted to just leave and had no good reason even after she cheated. She didn't want to leave with her lover necessarily she just wanted out of the marriage (I will touch on this in a bit) 
I went to marriagebuilders and spoke with Steve Harley and he does have the plan, btw. If it was not for him then she would have left..but he talked to her a few times and she decided to "try" I spent over $5k on that! and the last thing he told me on the phone was that she was full of shame and its deep rooted. Well, we worked on things.. tried to carry on like nothing happened and I stayed a good father and husband too but I never was able to just get over this. I believe I really could have if she was apologetic in the least bit towards her actions but you know how "they" are. 

Fast forward 2.5 years......
I still had my journals, recordings, hate towards the other man. All that baggage, but I was doing my best and I was smarter and learned a lot during this process. See my "Ex" had plotted to leave and have me pay for alimony, child support,etc,etc. I found her journals too.
Things started happening again around Aug 2015. When I felt that vibe again I knew what it was and I really didn't care. But what I did care about was protecting myself. I logged EVERYTHING and with a calm trained mind busted her sleeping with my neighbor. 
I went a month acting like I was really concerned with my feelings and our marriage but really I was giving her more time to screw up.
The end of the story is I have custody of both children and pay her nothing! She was abusive to her children mentally and physically DSS was involved restraining orders, she told the judge I raped her lol lies,lies,lies.

I recently helped a co-worker deal with the same narcissistic sociopath personality that I was dealing with. He now has custody over his daughter as well.
Journal everything with timestamps and a recorder on your cellphone, gps and PI.

I am going to post again with information that I used and what another father can do to protect himself and children from an individual as soulless as the one I was married to.


----------



## GusPolinski

kilobit said:


> Hello guys! this is just a follow up of this thread.....
> Back when this was going on my wife wanted to just leave and had no good reason even after she cheated. She didn't want to leave with her lover necessarily she just wanted out of the marriage (I will touch on this in a bit)
> I went to marriagebuilders and spoke with Steve Harley and he does have the plan, btw. If it was not for him then she would have left..but he talked to her a few times and she decided to "try" I spent over $5k on that! and the last thing he told me on the phone was that she was full of shame and its deep rooted. Well, we worked on things.. tried to carry on like nothing happened and I stayed a good father and husband too but I never was able to just get over this. I believe I really could have if she was apologetic in the least bit towards her actions but you know how "they" are.


Boooooooooo...



kilobit said:


> Fast forward 2.5 years......
> I still had my journals, recordings, hate towards the other man. All that baggage, but I was doing my best and I was smarter and learned a lot during this process. See my "Ex" had plotted to leave and have me pay for alimony, child support,etc,etc. I found her journals too.
> Things started happening again around Aug 2015. When I felt that vibe again I knew what it was and I really didn't care. But what I did care about was protecting myself. I logged EVERYTHING and with a calm trained mind busted her sleeping with my neighbor.
> I went a month acting like I was really concerned with my feelings and our marriage but really I was giving her more time to screw up.
> The end of the story is I have custody of both children and pay her nothing! She was abusive to her children mentally and physically DSS was involved restraining orders, she told the judge I raped her lol lies,lies,lies.
> 
> I recently helped a co-worker deal with the same narcissistic sociopath personality that I was dealing with. He now has custody over his daughter as well.
> Journal everything with timestamps and a recorder on your cellphone, gps and PI.
> 
> I am going to post again with information that I used and what another father can do to protect himself and children from an individual as soulless as the one I was married to.


Yay!!!


----------



## Dyokemm

Kilobit,

It took forever, my friend, but I'm glad you finally got to the point of standing up and fighting for yourself and your children.

Not surprised the MB 'plan' didn't end up working....I think that Plan A, 'nicing' your WS back, nonsense is as useless as t*ts on a bull.

Just wastes the BS's time and dumps even more pain down on their heads.

It might get a WS to stay for awhile, as in your case, but I think it does very little to fix the issues that led to the A in the first place...primarily because his theories blame the state of the M, rather that the f*cked up character, morals, and mental issues of the WS, for the A.

So he tells you that both WS and BS need to focus on the M problems.

I disagree....what needs 'fixing' is the screwed up WS who could somehow justify turning into a traitorous POS towards their spouse and entire family.

And I think your experience is ultimately more proof this is true.

Glad you are out of that bullsh*t situation.

Best of luck.


----------



## EleGirl

While it was a long rocky road, I'm glad things have worked out as best as they could for you and your children.

You can clearly stay that you did everything possible to save your marriage. 

Thanks for the update, we seldom get one.


----------



## Chaparral

So was the neighbor married too? How did that go over?

How are you doing now?

How is your exwife doing?


----------



## OldWolf57

Time wasted, but you got out really well.
Good going man.


----------



## weightlifter

Interested in ANYTHING that can improve the quality of
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html#post9756666


----------



## badmemory

kilobit,

I just read through your thread. With your indulgence, I'd like to offer your tale as a prime example of what often happens to BS's that don't follow the advice given here.

You think that you tried everything to save your marriage. But you spent thousands of dollars and wasted more years of your life in a false R, trying to salvage a marriage with a *non-remorseful spouse*. No one here is surprised that she cheated again.

As you discovered, divorce wound up being your best outcome; but it would have been an even better one 3 years ago. Absorb this as a life lesson as you move on to your next relationship.

I wish you the best.


----------



## GusPolinski

badmemory said:


> kilobit,
> 
> I just read through your thread. With your indulgence, I'd like to offer your tale as a prime example of what often happens to BS's that don't follow the advice given here.
> 
> You think that you tried everything to save your marriage. But you spent thousands of dollars and wasted more years of your life in a false R, trying to salvage a marriage with a *non-remorseful spouse*. *No one here is surprised that she cheated again.*
> 
> As you discovered, divorce wound up being your best outcome; but it would have been an even better one 3 years ago. Absorb this as a life lesson as you move on to your next relationship.
> 
> I wish you the best.


Honestly, I'd be surprised if she'd ever _stopped_ cheating.


----------



## justastatistic

Yup, that's why I stopped reading the marriagebuilders forum.


----------



## tech-novelist

kilobit said:


> Hello guys! this is just a follow up of this thread.....
> Things started happening again around *Aug 2015*.


Now that's being proactive!


----------



## kilobit

Ok guys, THE LIST (Print It) - Divorce Forum and Child Custody Forum THE LIST (Print It) <-- That is a must have! 
I appreciate the comments but this thread was merely 9 pages long. Over on the marriage bed site I have a thread that was over 130+ pages. It had to be moved to a moderated invite only section because it contained private information that could not be taken out of the thread.
I am who I am.. I understand I am a nice guy but that doesnt mean I will put up with crap either. I was brainwashed "duped" just as much as my wayward wife was, but I think its suppose to be that was with a trusting spouse. I also believe that being that way kills attraction and limits my possibilities as a man, in other words it was just an unhealthy relationship for me.
On Sept. 15 it will be a year separated and I will get a divorce. She was leaving the kids unattended which one is classified autistic borderline add and should not be left alone. This happened multiple times and anything I said she circumvented. All the neighbors around me are willing to testify and have witnessed her neglecting them. She was harboring all her secrets and could not handle the extra stress from the kids and started to seriously neglect/yell/pull hair rejected even hugging the kids. I went to the police station one night after an incident of her being abusive to my son, she didnt realize what she was even doing but I have never heard him tell hiim mom to stop the way he did and cry. If there were no cops I would taken care of matters myself. The police came to house and she had left them again and left a note saying walking the dog. They are my witness as well.
The next day she went to the courthouse and told a judge total crap lies that would have got me arrested if he had believed her. (keep a journal) I went across the street to social services and told them everything. Later that night I was served papers by the sheriff that had been rejected by a judge and DSS came by and had her sign a paper that put me in "Ad Litem" of the kids. Her plan backfired and 2 days of pure hell went by I had to call the police on her again, then finally got a restraining order kicking her out. She has plotted and plotted against me and I have Soooooo much against her now its not even funny. 
My neighbor has been to my house (I never liked him) I cooked steaks for him before. I can see into his house from my yard (especially with a 20x hd camcorder  my pi even used some of my stuff in his report.
She had 4 months supervised visitation and the very first weekend she was to get them by herself she got "sick" but thats ok cause I had already planned the PI to watch her because I didnt trust her. What did he find?? Oh she wasnt sick but was over at my neighbors screwing him again, lol. That kind of stuff looks really good and impresses custody judges 

I still have to deal with her crap, of lying to the kids that daddy kicked her out and she cannot hug the kids because daddy will call the police on her if she does, manipulation tactics. I really want to help the good spouse in situations like this because its not right and it further enables our screwed up society even more. Anyone reading this please read that link if they take it down search for "THE LIST (Print It)" on google it really helped me a ton. 
I will not get married again its a fraud contract that can be broken without cause and usually the man gets screwed so please people protect yourself and your children.


----------



## ConanHub

.......
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## morituri

kilobit said:


> I will not get married again its a fraud contract that can be broken without cause and usually the man gets screwed so please people protect yourself and your children.


You were mesmerized by a beautiful but broken woman. Instead of judging her by what was inside her, you fell for the pretty outer packaging.

Marriage is risky. More so when it is entered with the wrong person and worse when we are aware yet choose to remain blind to her/his serious faults.

To paraphrase William Shakespeare "The fault, dear kilobit, is not in marriage, but in ourselves."


----------



## GusPolinski

kilobit said:


> I will not get married again its a fraud contract that can be broken without cause and usually the man gets screwed so please people protect yourself and your children.


Yeah, but you're in North Carolina, right?

You've got it MADE.

 :smthumbup:


----------



## Dyokemm

"its a fraud contract that can be broken without cause"

Or consequence, I might add.

This is insightful IMO.

Infidelity is rampant today primarily because there is no legal redress for the BS, either against the WS or the interloping AP in most jurisdictions.

That indeed, IMO, makes it a fraudulent contract.

Why was this allowed to happen?

A complicated question to be sure....but I believe a large part of the reason was that powerful people, including not a few politicians, wanted to inoculate themselves against the penalties/price that used to be paid by a WS in a D caused by adultery....for example, how much of his fortune would Newt Gingrich have left after being divorced TWICE for cheating on his W?.

Under old fault D laws, a WS automatically received less of the assets from the M....a powerful incentive NOT to screw around.

Of course, it still happened, but not on the scale and with the impunity that it does today....there quite literally are no economic reasons to check this behavior in a no fault D legal environment.

I find it sort of absurd that the government will discourage activities such as smoking or drinking by placing an extra tax on them....sure you can do them, but their is an extra price to be paid....the tax represents social disapproval of the act.

Whether you agree or disagree with the concept, taxing acts society wants to discourage or subsidizing acts it wants to encourage, are 'social policy 101' when it comes to government action. 

So what does it say about social and government attitudes towards cheating that there is no 'penalty' to engaging in the behavior?

The only thing government could possibly do to make the situation worse would be to actually start subsidizing infidelity in some way.

It is a total abdication by government over an activity that causes TREMENDOUS damages and costs to society at large when you think of all the ways in which families, and especially children, are negatively impacted by it.

Again, the question has to be asked....WHY was this allowed to transpire?

I think examples like Newt Gingrich point the way....powerful people, mainly men though women are catching up fast, no longer wanted to be held financially accountable for their immoral and sh*tty behavior....just as they have excused themselves from answering for a lot of other slimy actions (bank fraud, for example) that they engage in that damages society.

We are turning into a society that is immune to the idea and concept of accountability.

And the only thing an honest person can do, as OP just pointed out in his last post, is to refrain from exposing oneself to the risks of M.......because, based on sites like TAM, no matter how much you think you have a partner that 'could never do that', there are simply no guarantees.

And there are for sure no legal protections for you in case you are deceived.


----------



## kilobit

That is very funny, please dont sign anything you get from your wayward either!


----------



## GusPolinski

kilobit said:


> That is very funny, please dont sign anything you get from your wayward either!


LOL... your wife gave you that? For reals?

What a stupid wh*re.

:lol: :rofl:


----------



## 3putt

kilobit said:


> That is very funny, please dont sign anything you get from your wayward either!





GusPolinski said:


> LOL... your wife gave you that? For reals?
> 
> What a stupid wh*re.
> 
> :lol: :rofl:


Please tell me that's not real.

Oh wow!!


----------



## morituri

Got to hand it to her, her handwriting is very pretty. The message is worth a small chuckle. :laugh:


----------



## kilobit

3putt said:


> Please tell me that's not real.
> 
> Oh wow!!


That is very real, and my wife did write that! This goes to show how twisted and distorted things are through her eyes. My lawyer also has a copy of this in his office, lmao


----------



## OldWolf57

Dyokemm, I like to freshwater fish, and oh, those big as gators piss me off so much I toss my catch to them LOL.


----------



## happy as a clam

Thanks for a terrific update.

So glad that you really turned this around and things are working out in your favor.

I'm sorry you had to go through all of it, but sincerely happy for you.


----------



## GusPolinski

kilobit said:


> That is very real, and my wife did write that! This goes to show how twisted and distorted things are through her eyes. My lawyer also has a copy of this in his office, lmao


I genuinely hope that you tore it into little pieces and threw it in her face immediately after taking the picture.


----------



## tom67

Dyokemm said:


> "its a fraud contract that can be broken without cause"
> 
> Or consequence, I might add.
> 
> This is insightful IMO.
> 
> Infidelity is rampant today primarily because there is no legal redress for the BS, either against the WS or the interloping AP in most jurisdictions.
> 
> That indeed, IMO, makes it a fraudulent contract.
> 
> Why was this allowed to happen?
> 
> A complicated question to be sure....but I believe a large part of the reason was that powerful people, including not a few politicians, wanted to inoculate themselves against the penalties/price that used to be paid by a WS in a D caused by adultery....for example, how much of his fortune would Newt Gingrich have left after being divorced TWICE for cheating on his W?.
> 
> Under old fault D laws, a WS automatically received less of the assets from the M....a powerful incentive NOT to screw around.
> 
> Of course, it still happened, but not on the scale and with the impunity that it does today....there quite literally are no economic reasons to check this behavior in a no fault D legal environment.
> 
> I find it sort of absurd that the government will discourage activities such as smoking or drinking by placing an extra tax on them....sure you can do them, but their is an extra price to be paid....the tax represents social disapproval of the act.
> 
> Whether you agree or disagree with the concept, taxing acts society wants to discourage or subsidizing acts it wants to encourage, are 'social policy 101' when it comes to government action.
> 
> So what does it say about social and government attitudes towards cheating that there is no 'penalty' to engaging in the behavior?
> 
> The only thing government could possibly do to make the situation worse would be to actually start subsidizing infidelity in some way.
> 
> It is a total abdication by government over an activity that causes TREMENDOUS damages and costs to society at large when you think of all the ways in which families, and especially children, are negatively impacted by it.
> 
> Again, the question has to be asked....WHY was this allowed to transpire?
> 
> I think examples like Newt Gingrich point the way....powerful people, mainly men though women are catching up fast, no longer wanted to be held financially accountable for their immoral and sh*tty behavior....just as they have excused themselves from answering for a lot of other slimy actions (bank fraud, for example) that they engage in that damages society.
> 
> We are turning into a society that is immune to the idea and concept of accountability.
> 
> And the only thing an honest person can do, as OP just pointed out in his last post, is to refrain from exposing oneself to the risks of M.......because, based on sites like TAM, no matter how much you think you have a partner that 'could never do that', there are simply no guarantees.
> 
> And there are for sure no legal protections for you in case you are deceived.


This is why MGTOW- men going their own way is only growing.
Hey you can date just don't sign a contract with the state.


----------



## morituri

This has got to be some of the best standup comic material, ever.



letter from kilobit's STBXWW said:


> "*I (kilobit) will accept what my wife decides to choose, and support her wishes*."
> 
> and
> 
> "*After completing these necessary steps and process, if I (kilobit's STBXWW) feel the need to make changes, I will be free to do so*."


:rofl:


----------



## weightlifter

Now THAT is lady balls! I will do squat and ask the moon.
That letter is from the first indiscretion or second?

Kilo. Could you read my top link in my signature and give me any additions you could think of? That post has been the undoing of many dozens of affairs including many people without threads here. Im always collecting wisdom from others for it.

BTW. hang around. 
#yodavoice The sarcasm is strong in this one.
Goood gooooooood.

Please tell me she is moving from a 5 bedroom McMansion to a 1 bedroom apartment.


----------



## Thor

Dyokemm said:


> So what does it say about social and government attitudes towards cheating that there is no 'penalty' to engaging in the behavior?
> 
> The only thing government could possibly do to make the situation worse would be to actually start subsidizing infidelity in some way.


In states such as mine with alimony, it does amount to a subsidy for the cheater. Here, over 10 yrs marriage gives alimony year for year, after 20 years marriage it is _lifetime_ alimony.

There is no motivation for the lower income spouse to remain faithful. If the marriage stays together, they get to cake eat. If it goes to divorce, the cheater automatically gets 50% of the net assets and 50% of future pensions. Plus there is alimony which simply splits the total income of both in half. If the cheater makes $50k and the BS makes $100k, the BS will have to pay $25k to the cheater as alimony (thus they each end up with $75k).

If after the divorce the BS makes even more, the cheater can get more! The BS works hard for a raise or gets a great new job, but then has to pay half of the increase to the cheater.

If the higher income spouse is the cheater, there is no penalty other than the specter of alimony. But they would have to pay the alimony anyhow if there is a divorce even with no cheating. So why not cheat instead of divorcing? Cake eat, and if you get caught you're no worse off than if you'd simply filed for D instead of cheated.

No-fault divorce is ok, but no-fault alimony is evil.


----------



## GusPolinski

Thor said:


> In states such as mine with alimony, it does amount to a subsidy for the cheater. Here, over 10 yrs marriage gives alimony year for year, after 20 years marriage it is _lifetime_ alimony.
> 
> There is no motivation for the lower income spouse to remain faithful. If the marriage stays together, they get to cake eat. If it goes to divorce, the cheater automatically gets 50% of the net assets and 50% of future pensions. Plus there is alimony which simply splits the total income of both in half. If the cheater makes $50k and the BS makes $100k, the BS will have to pay $25k to the cheater as alimony (thus they each end up with $75k).
> 
> If after the divorce the BS makes even more, the cheater can get more! The BS works hard for a raise or gets a great new job, but then has to pay half of the increase to the cheater.
> 
> If the higher income spouse is the cheater, there is no penalty other than the specter of alimony. But they would have to pay the alimony anyhow if there is a divorce even with no cheating. So why not cheat instead of divorcing? Cake eat, and if you get caught you're no worse off than if you'd simply filed for D instead of cheated.
> 
> *No-fault divorce is ok, but no-fault alimony is evil.*


Amen.


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## kilobit

Dyokemm said:


> "its a fraud contract that can be broken without cause"
> 
> Or consequence, I might add.
> 
> This is insightful IMO.
> 
> Infidelity is rampant today primarily because there is no legal redress for the BS, either against the WS or the interloping AP in most jurisdictions.
> 
> That indeed, IMO, makes it a fraudulent contract.
> 
> Why was this allowed to happen?
> 
> A complicated question to be sure....but I believe a large part of the reason was that powerful people, including not a few politicians, wanted to inoculate themselves against the penalties/price that used to be paid by a WS in a D caused by adultery....for example, how much of his fortune would Newt Gingrich have left after being divorced TWICE for cheating on his W?.
> 
> Under old fault D laws, a WS automatically received less of the assets from the M....a powerful incentive NOT to screw around.
> 
> Of course, it still happened, but not on the scale and with the impunity that it does today....there quite literally are no economic reasons to check this behavior in a no fault D legal environment.
> 
> I find it sort of absurd that the government will discourage activities such as smoking or drinking by placing an extra tax on them....sure you can do them, but their is an extra price to be paid....the tax represents social disapproval of the act.
> 
> Whether you agree or disagree with the concept, taxing acts society wants to discourage or subsidizing acts it wants to encourage, are 'social policy 101' when it comes to government action.
> 
> So what does it say about social and government attitudes towards cheating that there is no 'penalty' to engaging in the behavior?
> 
> The only thing government could possibly do to make the situation worse would be to actually start subsidizing infidelity in some way.
> 
> It is a total abdication by government over an activity that causes TREMENDOUS damages and costs to society at large when you think of all the ways in which families, and especially children, are negatively impacted by it.
> 
> Again, the question has to be asked....WHY was this allowed to transpire?
> 
> I think examples like Newt Gingrich point the way....powerful people, mainly men though women are catching up fast, no longer wanted to be held financially accountable for their immoral and sh*tty behavior....just as they have excused themselves from answering for a lot of other slimy actions (bank fraud, for example) that they engage in that damages society.
> 
> We are turning into a society that is immune to the idea and concept of accountability.
> 
> And the only thing an honest person can do, as OP just pointed out in his last post, is to refrain from exposing oneself to the risks of M.......because, based on sites like TAM, no matter how much you think you have a partner that 'could never do that', there are simply no guarantees.
> 
> And there are for sure no legal protections for you in case you are deceived.


Excellent post! and for some questions being asked check this out =>NO MA'AM: Marriage is Fraud
I dont think i could even be serious with a previously married woman either unless she has a damn good reason for being divorced.


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## kilobit

weightlifter said:


> Now THAT is lady balls! I will do squat and ask the moon.
> That letter is from the first indiscretion or second?
> 
> Kilo. Could you read my top link in my signature and give me any additions you could think of? That post has been the undoing of many dozens of affairs including many people without threads here. Im always collecting wisdom from others for it.
> 
> BTW. hang around.
> #yodavoice The sarcasm is strong in this one.
> Goood gooooooood.
> 
> Please tell me she is moving from a 5 bedroom McMansion to a 1 bedroom apartment.


Yes, she has moved twice and now govt assisted in a crap neighborhood.

As for your post get tape-a-talk app on your phone and record when you are around her (You can use this in court since 1 party has consent in NC and SC I believe) that program will record up for way over 24 hours with using low space. DO NOT EVER EDIT ANY FILE that you could use in court against your spouse. raw unedited!
If the spouse knows you might think something is up then she will probably use a throw away phone which are very hard to track/crack. For cracking voicemails look at teh call log and if you see numbers like 2243 or random numbers they probably thought they were unlocking voicemail or another password but called it instead!! Setup a google voice account and record your spouses voicemail then use hers for your google voice account voicemail. Next use the call forwarding feature that gvoice will tell you to use to use their voicemail instead of the cell providers vmail. Enter that in her phone. Keep in mind she will not get any voicemails from her phone while you have it activated (YOU are responsible for checking local laws before doing this. Do this as a last resort she might find out!) do Google searches on all the numbers on her phone but dont waste too much time she might have 4 phones lol. 
Run a internet spoofing proxy to fake a facebook login and get her password. 

Brickhouse gps (used to be ezoom) Great Investment 
While the person is trying to find proof dig through everything looking for stuff in the house, a very insignificant thing might help you with the puzzle later on, write these things down. Also, go ahead and copy ALL important certificates and credit card statements.
Look at the odometer and log it each day until you find a pattern. Drive her route. Has the passenger seat changed? 
Setup traps! place small pieces of paper over doors and barely open all drawers so you can tell if she has been into them and shut them all the way. Do this with everything then go out for an hour. She more than likely has a burner phone and is hiding it in close proximity. My wife was hiding hers in an outfit pocket in the back of the closet.
Pay attention is she is being " protective" of certain rooms or spending a lot of time in the bathroom alone..texting.

Those are a few ideas but the most important thing in the discovery process is to act like nothing is wrong, be funny and carefree but dont let her think you catching on to her.


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## GusPolinski

kilobit said:


> Yes, she has moved twice and now govt assisted in a crap neighborhood.
> 
> As for your post get tape-a-talk app on your phone and record when you are around her (You can use this in court since 1 party has consent in NC and SC I believe) that program will record up for way over 24 hours with using low space. DO NOT EVER EDIT ANY FILE that you could use in court against your spouse. raw unedited!
> If the spouse knows you might think something is up then she will probably use a throw away phone which are very hard to track/crack. For cracking voicemails look at teh call log and if you see numbers like 2243 or random numbers they probably thought they were unlocking voicemail or another password but called it instead!! *Setup a google voice account and record your spouses voicemail then use hers for your google voice account voicemail. Next use the call forwarding feature that gvoice will tell you to use to use their voicemail instead of the cell providers vmail. Enter that in her phone.* Keep in mind she will not get any voicemails from her phone while you have it activated (YOU are responsible for checking local laws before doing this. Do this as a last resort she might find out!) do Google searches on all the numbers on her phone but dont waste too much time she might have 4 phones lol.
> Run a internet spoofing proxy to fake a facebook login and get her password.
> 
> Brickhouse gps (used to be ezoom) Great Investment
> While the person is trying to find proof dig through everything looking for stuff in the house, a very insignificant thing might help you with the puzzle later on, write these things down. Also, go ahead and copy ALL important certificates and credit card statements.
> Look at the odometer and log it each day until you find a pattern. Drive her route. Has the passenger seat changed?
> Setup traps! place small pieces of paper over doors and barely open all drawers so you can tell if she has been into them and shut them all the way. Do this with everything then go out for an hour. She more than likely has a burner phone and is hiding it in close proximity. My wife was hiding hers in an outfit pocket in the back of the closet.
> Pay attention is she is being " protective" of certain rooms or spending a lot of time in the bathroom alone..texting.
> 
> Those are a few ideas but the most important thing in the discovery process is to act like nothing is wrong, be funny and carefree but dont let her think you catching on to her.


That is f*cking brilliant.


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## Vulcan2013

Oh, my! You manned up and wised up so much from your early posts.
:allhail:


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## MattMatt

kilobit said:


> That is very real, and my wife did write that! This goes to show how twisted and distorted things are through her eyes. My lawyer also has a copy of this in his office, lmao


Have it checked out by a professional graphologist.

There's something very odd and off about someone who can write something like ththat. 

She actually wrote herself a license to cheat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## poida

Your wife is...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1-xGuEkdLw


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## poida

Wow Kilo, 
That letter was gold.
If there was ever a reminder than being with a woman with moral fibre and a heart of gold is all the matters, this is it.
Thanks!!!!


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## dash74

Holy f*ckaroni thats a **** letter of agreement nasty b*tch


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## convert

Setup a google voice account and record your spouses voicemail then use hers for your google voice account voicemail. Next use the call forwarding feature that gvoice will tell you to use to use their voicemail instead of the cell providers vmail. Enter that in her phone. 






GusPolinski said:


> That is f*cking brilliant.




I agree. This probably should be in the standard evidence post.


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## weightlifter

Kilo. Reread my standard evidence post.
Thanks.


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## weightlifter

Didnt you say she was very attractive? Has she given off so many psycho signs she hasnt been able to sucker some other guy?


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## kilobit

weightlifter said:


> Didnt you say she was very attractive? Has she given off so many psycho signs she hasnt been able to sucker some other guy?


Very cool! You dont have to give me credit man but I appreciate it. To answer your previous question that cuckold letter was from her first affair (reason I started this thread) I would also put a link for "The list" I mentioned about from an earlier post as people that are experiencing a heavy crash after finding out need to be pointed in a direction and told what to do. I was classified retarted and had no idea what to do. I got about 3 hours sleep a night for weeks. Some people dont go through this but some do, I knew my wife since she was born and was friends with her brother (still am) my whole life. It was pure hell man and what did give me some piece of mind was getting evidence against her (the second time) The first time I wanted to fix everything and change myself because I thought I was the problem.

I know in some other countries they do public executions for stuff like this, its just wrong but I dont think anyone that really loved their spouse would ever want that and not tell but there does need to be some form of consequence because it defines someones character down to their core. Especially since we were married for 13 years but lived together for around 18 total. 
Hell, I still dont know how to act around women I am scared, honestly. Marriage is just a word, its not even meaningful anymore and has been adulterated (no pun). Even in the bible it says your bonded by intercourse. Even back then the had sex before marriage (ceremony) hence engagement. Since you are taking a womans virginity you pay a collateral fee to her ahead of time so if you bounce she will at lest be left with something.
Now days, haha engagement is just a plain scam like marriage is because who is really a virgin anymore at that point? Bless the people that are but really its just another scam set into place to enslave men (feminism) and women wonder why there are no good men around, LOL. I am sure there are some good people left in this world, but I am not going to bet my 401k and half of my assets to find one, nada.


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## GusPolinski

kilobit said:


> I am sure there are some good people left in this world, but I am not going to bet my 401k and half of my assets to find one, nada.


LOL. Never ever ever ever ever move out of NC.


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## weightlifter

Kilo. I give credit to those who help that post. While its "my" post, it's more like I'm a caretaker of collected wisdom. I'm just very good at tech and logistics, Gus is a minor deity on smart phones etc.
Could you answer the question about her being attractive but unable to snare a guy?


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## kilobit

weightlifter said:


> Kilo. I give credit to those who help that post. While its "my" post, it's more like I'm a caretaker of collected wisdom. I'm just very good at tech and logistics, Gus is a minor deity on smart phones etc.
> Could you answer the question about her being attractive but unable to snare a guy?


Sure, she was gorgeous. Pamela Anderson clone. Now she looks like crap lol. She has no problem with guys, especially heartless ones that dont care about her, but she will see in time! I just hope she gets herself on track and not turn out a druggie ***** for the kids sake.

https://www.42l.com/pydio/data/public/d40dbe

that was her when I started dating her. She was still very pretty but age is catching up fast!


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## GusPolinski

weightlifter said:


> Kilo. I give credit to those who help that post. While its "my" post, it's more like I'm a caretaker of collected wisdom. I'm just very good at tech and logistics, Gus is a minor deity on smart phones etc.


Thanks for the props, WL.



weightlifter said:


> Could you answer the question about her being attractive but unable to snare a guy?


LOL. They can probably smell the crazy on her.


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