# Tired



## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

I guess it's time to get my feet wet in this forum. My wife and I have been married 30+ years. Our kids are grown (some what). 10 years ago she broke down and told me didn't know if she had the "right kind" of love for me any more. We talked about divorcing, but I convinced her I could make her love me again. I know stupid me. We were young when we got married she was 18 and I was 20. We were a very loving couple always hugging and kissing and sex once a week wether we needed it or not. When this first happened I figured someone else, but I don't think that is the case. She hardly ever gets on the computer, I check cell phone records (not anymore lately) and we work at the same place. We live in a small town and I'm kin to half of the town. I believe I would have heard something.
Any way for the last 10 years there has been no affection from her. When it comes to sex there is no fore play she just rolls over on her side facing away. Then we get in the missionary position to finish. She ahem always orgasims, but she never puts her hands on me or touch me in any way.
Any way we get along great as long as there is no affection involved. I may have left out a lot of info, but I think more will come out as this thread progresses. (if you want to comment)
Please forgive misspells and crappy grammar.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Sounds grim Thound. I suppose if my wife does the same to me later on I'll be happy we had this much time, sad that she's not in love any more, and content to let her go.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Thanks Thundarr. She has a lot of stress in her life. I love her with all my being; However I want her to be happy. She is a great lady and deserves all the happiness in the world.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

Please do tell us more... 

Was she ever really affectionate? If so when did it stop? Did it just peter out or did it go out because of an event or the likes?

Do you two still have fun together...go on dates, share interests?

What is causing her stress? What does she do with her stress?

10 years of no affection and duty sex must be a terrible thing to endure. Withholding affection and sex within a marriage is NOT OK... would she come to counselling with you? A good counselor will call her out on this issue!


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

waiwera said:


> Please do tell us more...
> 
> Was she ever really affectionate? If so when did it stop? Did it just peter out or did it go out because of an event or the likes?
> 
> ...



She was always affectionate. It dropped off fairly rapidly, she did say she had been unhappy for a long time. 
Her dad had a long protracted fatal disease. Our kids seem to make terrible life choices. Now her mom has the onset of Alzhimers. Etc.
I tried to get her to go to counseling, and there is no way she will go.
I'm thinking of telling her that if she is not happy being with me she needs to let me know so she can find someone else to make her happy, and I can move on. We never discuss our problems we just act as if there is nothing wrong. I can't stand to make her cry. Oh we do go out and eat pretty regulary.


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## Ellen Steve (Jan 23, 2013)

If you are in a marriage where one partner is more affectionate than the other you are not alone. We all go through periods in our life where we fall in and out of love and it can last for years. When we first get married there was a sense of attraction both emotionally and physically. We learned about each other and did not focus on ourselves. As time goes on we learn to focus on our own unmet needs and refuse to look at someone’s needs. Different people have different affectionate needs. In my own home I often express to my husband that the little things will lead to more. Hold my hand in public, just sit and talk to me, discusses the day in an uncomplaining manner and compliment me on how nice things look in the house. This makes me feel affectionate. Try being more open and do the little things. See what happens.Save My Marriage


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Ellen Steve said:


> If you are in a marriage where one partner is more affectionate than the other you are not alone. We all go through periods in our life where we fall in and out of love and it can last for years. When we first get married there was a sense of attraction both emotionally and physically. We learned about each other and did not focus on ourselves. As time goes on we learn to focus on our own unmet needs and refuse to look at someone’s needs. Different people have different affectionate needs. In my own home I often express to my husband that the little things will lead to more. Hold my hand in public, just sit and talk to me, discusses the day in an uncomplaining manner and compliment me on how nice things look in the house. This makes me feel affectionate. Try being more open and do the little things. See what happens.


Thanks for the reply. I have made a lot of changes. I used to be a hermit. I go places with her we go out to eat. Still she never shows me any affection. We usually get along great, but we are more or less room mates. We have sex, but I bet if she was honest she would tell me it's all she can do to keep from barfing at the thought of having sex with me.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

She signed my VD card always, not love. Am I reading too much into that?


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

She got you a card. 

I suggest this: Worldwide Marriage Encounter


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Blonde said:


> She got you a card.
> 
> I suggest this: Worldwide Marriage Encounter


Checked out your link. That would be cool, but they don't have any in Texas.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Just praying for you brother..


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

dallasapple said:


> Just praying for you brother..


Thanks you are awesome!!!


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

I really need to put more info in my posts, but I'm using an iPad, and hate typing on it. Old people huh!


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## curlysue321 (Jul 30, 2012)

Tell her you need more from her and go to marriage counseling.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Thound said:


> Thanks for the reply. I have made a lot of changes. I used to be a hermit. I go places with her we go out to eat. Still she never shows me any affection. We usually get along great, but we are more or less room mates. We have sex, but I bet if she was honest she would tell me it's all she can do to keep from barfing at the thought of having sex with me.


1. Sounds like you have some serious self-esteem issues.

2. You go out to eat. Do you think this is something that makes her feel special? Or has it become just more of the same ol' thing? 

My guess is that when she tried to tell you what her needs are, you filtered it in a way that you wanted to. "I'd like to go do things together" might be what she said, and your mind figured out the easiest way to do that. But "doing things together" might have meant something different to her than it does to you. She might have meant she wants to share a hobby with you, for instance, but because you see dining out as doing things together, you believe you're doing what she asked, and yet she doesn't. 

I'm afraid if you want affection from her, you're going to have to learn her needs better and actually invest time, effort, and creativity to meet them.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Thanks for the reply Kathy. You are very perceptive, I do have self esteem issues. Going out to eat was a huge step for me. Here in the Houston area we had a reporter named Marvin Zindler. He was the reporter who shut down the brothel in La Grange. ( Best Little *****house in Texas). On Friday nights he would give restaurant reports describing the worst restaurants in Houston for that week. He gave all the gory details. Me being a germ freak I would not go out to eat. Over coming that was big for me. I have on my own over came my compolsive behavior. I still wash my hands before eating.
I'm sure she has given me clues before, but I'm so awesome being with should have been enough. (sarcasm) .
I don't know what happened to me I used to be ****y. In high school I was 5'7" weighed 130 pounds. I played varsity football. I didn't care how big the other guy was, I was going to try and knock the snot out of him. After I got married and had kids I tried to always make nice at work and home. I felt I had to walk a tight rope at work because of the recession of the early 80s. At home I had to walk a tight rope at home so I could get my " allowance" on Friday nights.
In short, I became a WIMP!!!


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Well, around here the theory is that women fall out of love with wimps. You thought you were doing all the right things, and maybe at that time you were.... but eventually you become less of a man in your wife's eyes. 

So the next theory is, you can sit around and be all wussy about it, wishing she'd come around. OR you can look at yourself and do something about it! Get that macho feeling back. 

Take control of yourself and your life.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

SunnyT said:


> Well, around here the theory is that women fall out of love with wimps. You thought you were doing all the right things, and maybe at that time you were.... but eventually you become less of a man in your wife's eyes.
> 
> So the next theory is, you can sit around and be all wussy about it, wishing she'd come around. OR you can look at yourself and do something about it! Get that macho feeling back.
> 
> Take control of yourself and your life.


 I came to that same conclusion last week. I have lost 16 pounds through eating habits and will start hitting the gym at 0500 b4 work. We have a gym at work. I would be doing it now, but I am working 14 hrs a day. I have had to be at work at 0500 for the past 6 weeks, so I am in the habit of getting up at 0415. 
I have already started speaking my mind at work and home.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Well last night we went out to eat and had a good time. We went to bed and she gave me the "casual" touch like she is open to some sex. It has been weeks since the last time, so I start kissing her and I get the usal flinching and sighing not the good kind. So I guide her hand to my nether region and she recoiled her hand. I just rolled over on my back. When she asked me what was wrong I told her I feel likes she is disgusted with me, and I don't want sex to be just another chore for her. She got up and went in the living room for a couple of hours. I didnt follow her like would have in times past. I guess I will see what transpires next. Either way I guess it doesn't matter one way or another.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

She may be depressed over her Father & your children not making the best life choices. Continue to work on yourself & mix things up a bit at home. Get her out of her comfort zone - go out with other couples & try to be the life of the party so she sees you in a different light.


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## Pravius (Dec 12, 2012)

Your last post struck something in me. When you said that you did not follow her like you would have in the past. Do you give her the freedoms of being alone when she needs it sometimes?

Love in my experience is alot like a fire. The fire needs to be gently aired and needs plenty of fuel (wood) to keep burning. If you smother the fire it goes out fast, if you ignore the fire it goes out over time. You need to find a delicate balance to keep the fire going. 

If you go to far to one side or the other the fire goes out. 

Elaborate a little on that for us if you can. Do you smother? Have you taken her for granted and ignored her in the past? She may hold resentment for something and just needs to see you change.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

I let her go where ever she wants. Do anything she wants, because I trust her; however if she gets upset I'm upset to. In the past if she got mad I would follow her around trying to make it better. I will not do that anymore. It sure has been awful quiet here today, but I have no regrets for saying what I did. I hate it that it hurt her feelings, but it needed to be said.


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## Pravius (Dec 12, 2012)

Thound said:


> I let her go where ever she wants. Do anything she wants, because I trust her; however if she gets upset I'm upset to. In the past if she got mad I would follow her around trying to make it better. I will not do that anymore. It sure has been awful quiet here today, but I have no regrets for saying what I did. I hate it that it hurt her feelings, but it needed to be said.


Thound, this will help you. I promise. Read this and look into a book called codependent no more. Trust me 

http://www.codaworldfellowship.org/pdfs/patterns2.pdf


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Thound said:


> I guess it's time to get my feet wet in this forum. My wife and I have been married 30+ years. Our kids are grown (some what). 10 years ago she broke down and told me didn't know if she had the "right kind" of love for me any more.


Sounds like ILYBINILWY. Usually, this means your wife has been getting attention from an outside source and is redirecting her attachment away from you. There is quite a lot of hormonal and chemical reason for this.



Thound said:


> We talked about divorcing, but I convinced her I could make her love me again. I know stupid me.


If it got so far along that divorce was discussed and she never gave you any other reason than the above, it's almost for sure she was involved with someone else in some way.



Thound said:


> We were young when we got married she was 18 and I was 20. We were a very loving couple always hugging and kissing and sex once a week wether we needed it or not.


Once a week is nothing to right home about, even pushing 60.



Thound said:


> When this first happened I figured someone else, but I don't think that is the case.


No, you were right the first time. Gut instincts are almost always correct on these matters. Not always, but usually.



Thound said:


> She hardly ever gets on the computer, I check cell phone records (not anymore lately) and we work at the same place. We live in a small town and I'm kin to half of the town. I believe I would have heard something.


You'd be surprised what your own family would keep from you and you'd be surprised what your own family will do with your wife. Furthermore, it doesn't have to be an ongoing affair to kill her attraction for you. It could be a ONS. What it means to women when they have sex with an OM is that YOU weren't really the right guy for her. If you had been Mr. Right, this never would have happened. Therefore, she married the wrong guy and her bad actions prove to her that you are an imposter and not really "The One." See how that works? After she decides that, you're toast. So, just because she may not be stepping out now, doesn't mean she hasn't in the past. Most likely 10 years ago was the first, possibly the only, time.



Thound said:


> Any way for the last 10 years there has been no affection from her. When it comes to sex there is no fore play she just rolls over on her side facing away. Then we get in the missionary position to finish. She ahem always orgasims, but she never puts her hands on me or touch me in any way.
> Any way we get along great as long as there is no affection involved. I may have left out a lot of info, but I think more will come out as this thread progresses. (if you want to comment)
> Please forgive misspells and crappy grammar.


Basically, she has no sexual attraction for you. ILYBINILWY. That means she is not sexually attracted to you.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Thound said:


> She was always affectionate. It dropped off fairly rapidly, she did say she had been unhappy for a long time.
> Her dad had a long protracted fatal disease. Our kids seem to make terrible life choices. Now her mom has the onset of Alzhimers. Etc.


When did her dad die? Was it 10 years ago at the same time her libido died? A close death in the family is often a precursor for an affair for women.



Thound said:


> I tried to get her to go to counseling, and there is no way she will go.


That's because she already knows what the problem is and she wants to keep that secret.



Thound said:


> I'm thinking of telling her that if she is not happy being with me she needs to let me know so she can find someone else to make her happy, and I can move on.


I'd hold off on that conversation.



Thound said:


> We never discuss our problems we just act as if there is nothing wrong. I can't stand to make her cry. Oh we do go out and eat pretty regulary.


Believe it or not, your failure to discuss is probably good. Guys who try to "talk about the relationship" just piss the wife off even more. It makes the wife angry that their husband is too "stupid" to read her mind and see the real problem.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Thound said:


> Thanks for the reply. I have made a lot of changes. I used to be a hermit. I go places with her we go out to eat. Still she never shows me any affection. We usually get along great, but we are more or less room mates. We have sex, but I bet if she was honest she would tell me it's all she can do to keep from barfing at the thought of having sex with me.


Quit trying to sex her. Be upbeat, happy, suave, and cool, with zero sexual interest in her whatsoever.



Thound said:


> She signed my VD card always, not love. Am I reading too much into that?


No, you're not.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Thound said:


> I don't know what happened to me I used to be ****y. In high school I was 5'7" weighed 130 pounds. I played varsity football. I didn't care how big the other guy was, I was going to try and knock the snot out of him. After I got married and had kids I tried to always make nice at work and home. I felt I had to walk a tight rope at work because of the recession of the early 80s. At home I had to walk a tight rope at home so I could get my " allowance" on Friday nights.
> In short, I became a WIMP!!!


This is called "beta-ization." It turns you into chick repellant. You need to download and read this book tonight. 
Married Man Sex Life Primer
Whatever you do, don't let your wife know you've got it and don't let your wife catch you reading it. This is "for your eyes only." It's somewhat misnamed as it is about how to keep a woman horny for you over the long haul. He's got an excellent blog, too.



Thound said:


> I came to that same conclusion last week. I have lost 16 pounds through eating habits and will start hitting the gym at 0500 b4 work. We have a gym at work. I would be doing it now, but I am working 14 hrs a day. I have had to be at work at 0500 for the past 6 weeks, so I am in the habit of getting up at 0415.
> I have already started speaking my mind at work and home.


This is all good. What is your workout program? What is your eating plan?



Thound said:


> Well last night we went out to eat and had a good time. We went to bed and she gave me the "casual" touch like she is open to some sex. It has been weeks since the last time, so I start kissing her and I get the usal flinching and sighing not the good kind. So I guide her hand to my nether region and she recoiled her hand. I just rolled over on my back. When she asked me what was wrong I told her I feel likes she is disgusted with me, and I don't want sex to be just another chore for her. She got up and went in the living room for a couple of hours. I didnt follow her like would have in times past. I guess I will see what transpires next. Either way I guess it doesn't matter one way or another.


Read MMSL tonight. Keep working on your physique. When I shaped up, my wife suddenly "found" her lost libido.


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## Anabel (Dec 21, 2012)

I do not agree at all that communicating with your wife is counterproductive. If anything, I'd suggest you continue to bring up exactly what is on your mind and press for an answer from her. Don't just go about your daily life if you want it to change, don't pretend to feel anything you don't. If she continues and continues to dodge you, ignore you, or try to throw you off with vague BS answers, consider separation. I doubt she believes you would do it, and it might get through to her.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

Also, read the "Five Love Languages" and take the quiz. Get your wife to read the book and also take the quiz. Maybe you aren't speaking her love language.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Hey guys I will correspond more Monday not much time here now. What do you yall think about me asking her out of the blue if she ever had an EA or PA, and gauge her reaction? I will read responses before I act.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Thound said:


> Checked out your link. That would be cool, but they don't have any in Texas.


Then this: Marriage Healing in Texas


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## Anabel (Dec 21, 2012)

Thound said:


> Hey guys I will correspond more Monday not much time here now. What do you yall think about me asking her out of the blue if she ever had an EA or PA, and gauge her reaction? I will read responses before I act.


Considering how she's been avoiding you, it's a legitimate question. Her behavior doesn't automatically equal affair though, so I'd be careful about leading with that. If there are other possibilities, it would show compassion to talk about those first. Did she ever explain _why_ she doesn't have "that kind" of love for you anymore? You have every reason to wonder (not to accuse her of anything, but to ask). If she loves you she'll understand this.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Thanks for all of the replys. I just don't think she has cheated, but there are countless threads on here about a lot of men who thought the same thing. Up until 12 years ago she had worked around women making very little money. When she got her new job she worked around mostly men. I think she liked the attention she was recieving and got there greener pastuer syndrome. She was always home on time. Cell phone records were always clean there were no strange calls at home, when she went anywhere her mom was with her.
I just think she thought she could do better. She tends to keep score of every hurt I have ever caused. She thinks I had a fling with a girl I used to work with, but I never did anything with her. We used to talk about spouses and kids just friendly chat. I have never talked to any women wanting to have a relationship with them.
I have got fat and lazy and became a huge wimp. I have always heard a lot of women go bonkers when they get close to 40 and I think that is a lot of the problem.
When all this went down 10 years ago I went all out try to make sure she was happy, and the biggest mistake I made was begging her to stay. I think as long as I'm compliant she doesn't feel the need to change. I ordered the the book Machavellin suggested It is supposed to be here Wednesday.


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## 41362 (Dec 14, 2012)

Thound said:


> Thanks for all of the replys. I just don't think she has cheated, but there are countless threads on here about a lot of men who thought the same thing. Up until 12 years ago she had worked around women making very little money. When she got her new job she worked around mostly men. I think she liked the attention she was recieving and got there greener pastuer syndrome. She was always home on time. Cell phone records were always clean there were no strange calls at home, when she went anywhere her mom was with her.
> I just think she thought she could do better. She tends to keep score of every hurt I have ever caused. She thinks I had a fling with a girl I used to work with, but I never did anything with her. We used to talk about spouses and kids just friendly chat. I have never talked to any women wanting to have a relationship with them.
> I have got fat and lazy and became a huge wimp. I have always heard a lot of women go bonkers when they get close to 40 and I think that is a lot of the problem.
> When all this went down 10 years ago I went all out try to make sure she was happy, and the biggest mistake I made was begging her to stay. I think as long as I'm compliant she doesn't feel the need to change. I ordered the the book Machavellin suggested It is supposed to be here Wednesday.


Thound, you gotta grab your self by the short hairs and move forward. I was fat and lazy, too... with a good dash of loss of confidence to complete the package. You need to fix that for YOU. I can tell you that my life is a complete turnaround from where it was 18 months ago.

Get the MMSL and run the MAP... but, run it for YOU. Better yourself for you. The odds are good that she will love the changes, but even if she isn't, the important thing is that you will.


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## 41362 (Dec 14, 2012)

Machiavelli's advice is spot on, as usual. Please read it again.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

I plan on improving myself for me. I'm tired of being a doormat at home and at work and on the street. I became a born again Christian at 18, and the bible said to be meek and mild mannered, but I think I took a lot out of context!


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

Brother, I'm right there with you. Married at 21 and 18, and it'll be 30 years in a few months. And if you're in the Houston area, we might practically be neighbors.

I'm like you. I lost my "edge", and have been working for the past year or two to get it back: fitter, a little more unpredictable, alot more outspoken, etc. At the same time, I calmed down. I don't raise my voice anymore, I don't worry nearly as much. I lost my fear of the future. I know I'll be okay, and whatever happens, I can handle it.

And you know what? Things are significantly better with my wife. People are strange creatures. What you think would work doesn't, and vice versa. But go with what works.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

GTdad said:


> Brother, I'm right there with you. Married at 21 and 18, and it'll be 30 years in a few months. And if you're in the Houston area, we might practically be neighbors.
> 
> I'm like you. I lost my "edge", and have been working for the past year or two to get it back: fitter, a little more unpredictable, alot more outspoken, etc. At the same time, I calmed down. I don't raise my voice anymore, I don't worry nearly as much. I lost my fear of the future. I know I'll be okay, and whatever happens, I can handle it.
> 
> And you know what? Things are significantly better with my wife. People are strange creatures. What you think would work doesn't, and vice versa. But go with what works.


Thanks for the reply. I completely agree with you. I'm improving me for me. The other night we went out to eat, and I asked the waiter about the food, because I knew what I wanted and not what I usally get stuck with. My wife looked at me and said that was bold, and she never could do that. Funny last week I couldn't either.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

Thound said:


> Thanks for the reply. I completely agree with you. I'm improving me for me. The other night we went out to eat, and I asked the waiter about the food, because I knew what I wanted and not what I usally get stuck with. My wife looked at me and said that was bold, and she never could do that. Funny last week I couldn't either.


You have her attention. She was impressed enough to comment and at the same time, acknowledged her own weakness. Good job for improving yourself with this baby step.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

SaltInWound said:


> You have her attention. She was impressed enough to comment and at the same time, acknowledged her own weakness. Good job for improving yourself with this baby step.


Baby step in deed. I don't want to do too much until I get my book in (tomorrow)


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

How dl I move this thread to private section?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I think you contact one of the mods to move it for you.


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## 41362 (Dec 14, 2012)

PM a mod


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Well I came home from work this evening and found my wife very quite sort moaping and I asked her whatis wrong. She said nothing was wrong. I have been working 12 to 14 hours a day 7 days a week since Jan.12th. When it gets to bed time I get out of the shower and notice her in bed facing away from me. She never does that. I got really pissed and I asked her once again what was wrong she said curtly nothing was wrong. I fianally told her if she didn't want to be with me she needed to let me know. She got kinda p1$$3d and asked where did that come from. I told her 10 years ago you told me you didn't know if you had the right kind of love for me, and in the last 10 years you have said or done anything to change that. She told me she feels like she is my mother (ouch). She said if I was not happy she would leave. She also said she was going thru menopause and I told she wasn't 10 years ago. Then she commented about me getting testerone shots and reading sex books. (She saw my MMSL in my truck when she used it the other dat DOH!) She told me she was slowing down in life and I'm wanting to speed up. I told her the book I was reading was about quit being a child and be a man (in so many words). Oh well I don't know what will transpire next, but I told her I agreed she probably does feel like my mother as I have always let her run things. She said she didn't know how to make me happy and I told her was not responsible for my happiness only hers. Oh well may be time to start another thread in another section. We shall see.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

I guess I should have mentioned Sunday night is the unofficial sex night. I think she acts this way so I wont initiate anything
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 41362 (Dec 14, 2012)

Not sure what to tell you here, Thound. It seems similar to the other things you have posted. This incident specifically would seem a "sh!t test" to me, but that's JMHO.

Wondering what steps you've taken since your post on the 4th. Seems you got the MMSL... thoughts? What about health, have you started any sort of betterment program?


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Im still losing weight I quit being needy. With the long hours at work no time to work out. I have an appt with a IC Wed. She dosent know about the appt. I know I have a codepency issue. Im just tired of sweeping our problems under the rug. She just bottles up her emotions
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 41362 (Dec 14, 2012)

Well then, it sounds like she was fairly open last night... not holding her thoughts to herself... I stand corrected on it being a sh!t test (I think).

Follow up that arguement (well, I am reading it as more of an arguement than anything else) with a c-o-n-v-e-r-s-a-t-i-o-n tonight. Ask her to take a walk with you, hold her hand, and TALK about last night. Try and figure out what was the underlying reason for her coldness. Tell her some of the stuff in your head. I would encourage telling her that you are trying to better yourself for yourself and the relationship. (Not specifically for her). Now, that said, this is the only time I would bring up the betterment of yourself. Toss it out there, let her hear it, let her think about it, and then let her see your actions not words.

You really need to find some time to exercise... can you find 30 minutes a day? 30 minutes every other day?

Congrats on losing some weight. That's a great start.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

41362 said:


> Well then, it sounds like she was fairly open last night... not holding her thoughts to herself... I stand corrected on it being a sh!t test (I think).
> 
> Follow up that arguement (well, I am reading it as more of an arguement than anything else) with a c-o-n-v-e-r-s-a-t-i-o-n tonight. Ask her to take a walk with you, hold her hand, and TALK about last night. Try and figure out what was the underlying reason for her coldness. Tell her some of the stuff in your head. I would encourage telling her that you are trying to better yourself for yourself and the relationship. (Not specifically for her). Now, that said, this is the only time I would bring up the betterment of yourself. Toss it out there, let her hear it, let her think about it, and then let her see your actions not words.
> 
> ...


Funny we have been married for over 30 years, and I bet we have had less than 10 fights. We are both pouters. Stupid huh?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Thound said:


> She said nothing was wrong. I have been working 12 to 14 hours a day 7 days a week since Jan.12th.


You answered your own question about what is wrong.

You are a workaholic. If you dump your wife you won't get another woman into bed by spending 14 hour days at work 7 days a week unless you pay her the customary fee.

Maybe she read this? How To Fair Warning a Husband That Doesn’t Listen (Before Things Are Too Late To Fix) | Married Man Sex Life

You should read this: The Policy of Unidivided Attention


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

LOL thats 1 thing I haver been called. I work 40hrs a wk. The long hrs r die to a maint outage. Hopecully the last wk.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Stupid smart phone!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Well, here is what would work for me. 

Non-sexual puts his arms around me, looks deep into my eyes and tells me how sorry he is that he's been so preoccupied with work since January and how he misses spending time with me and wants to make it up to me. 

"How about we get away for a romantic weekend?" Followed by a deep kiss and "I love you and want to reconnect. Should we get that corner room again overlooking Niagara Falls that has the jacuzzi tub?" (Crowne Plaza- "Superior Fallsview, One King, Jacuzzi")


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Blonde said:


> Well, here is what would work for me.
> 
> Non-sexual puts his arms around me, looks deep into my eyes and tells me how sorry he is that he's been so preoccupied with work since January and how he misses spending time with me and wants to make it up to me.
> 
> "How about we get away for a romantic weekend?" Followed by a deep kiss and "I love you and want to reconnect. Should we get that corner room again overlooking Niagara Falls that has the jacuzzi tub?" (Crowne Plaza- "Superior Fallsview, One King, Jacuzzi")


Thanks Blondie, but that will not work for her. She has completely checked out emotionaly, and has chekwd into her Ice castle. She does not want any romance from ME.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

If she stays in the ice castle over this weekend it's hopeless: Marriage Healing in Texas

If she comes out of the ice castle, take good mental notes of what kind of fertilizer worked.


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## 41362 (Dec 14, 2012)

Thound said:


> Thanks Blondie, but that will not work for her. She has completely checked out emotionaly, and has chekwd into her Ice castle. She does not want any romance from ME.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The only way you can thaw that ice castle is by changing you.

You already know that... but you're failing to acknowledge the time it is going to take to change yourself. Changing the way you behave and interact with your wife, and others, will take a tremendous amount of time and practice. You will be completely relearning a learned behavior. There will be a million instances of three steps backward for one step forward... and you will have days when you just don't want to do it... and wonder why in the hell you are making this effort. When you add in the weight that you want to lose, this obstacle becomes a mountain.

Now, the good news is that mountains can be climbed... one step after another, brother. The importance of the exercise is not just for the weight loss aspect (which is huge) it also allows you a release. These changes that so frustrate you can and will become your fuel. Me, I run until I can. not. run. anymore... and then I run some more... and some more, until what I thought was impossible is the norm.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

I will be fine either way. Im goinv to hang on by letting go. Im going to start living for me. I want to rid myself of my codependency issues.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 41362 (Dec 14, 2012)

Thound said:


> I will be fine either way. Im goinv to hang on by letting go. Im going to start living for me. I want to rid myself of my codependency issues.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good.

Change you for you... and she just might follow


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

41362 said:


> The only way you can thaw that ice castle is by changing you.
> 
> You already know that... but you're failing to acknowledge the time it is going to take to change yourself. Changing the way you behave and interact with your wife, and others, will take a tremendous amount of time and practice. You will be completely relearning a learned behavior. There will be a million instances of three steps backward for one step forward... and you will have days when you just don't want to do it... and wonder why in the hell you are making this effort. When you add in the weight that you want to lose, this obstacle becomes a mountain.
> 
> Now, the good news is that mountains can be climbed... one step after another, brother. The importance of the exercise is not just for the weight loss aspect (which is huge) it also allows you a release. These changes that so frustrate you can and will become your fuel. Me, I run until I can. not. run. anymore... and then I run some more... and some more, until what I thought was impossible is the norm.


I know its going to take time, i just wanted to fire a warning shot over the bow.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Thound said:


> I know its going to take time, i just wanted to fire a warning shot over the bow.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


"Warning shot"?

I know there is a popular theme on TAM to "up your sexual rank" and go out flirting with other women at bars.

We are married 30 years in October. If my husband did this, he would be by the curbside with divorce papers served as quickly as I can.

Just sayin', I'd be careful about which advice you follow. The "red pill and blue pill" may have some merits but the way it is taken by some men as a license to be utterly self centered and play the field is despicable. OTH Retrouvaille has an 75-85% success rate in healing distressed marriages (depending where you read).


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

Blonde said:


> "Warning shot"?
> 
> I know there is a popular theme on TAM to "up your sexual rank" and go out flirting with other women at bars.
> 
> ...


I went back in the thread to make sure I wasn't missing anything, but I can't see where hitting on other women came into play until your post.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Thound said:


> I got really pissed and I asked her once again what was wrong she said curtly nothing was wrong. I fianally told her if she didn't want to be with me she needed to let me know. She got kinda p1$$3d and asked where did that come from.
> ...
> Then she commented about me getting testerone shots and reading sex books. (She saw my MMSL in my truck when she used it the other dat DOH!) She told me she was slowing down in life and I'm wanting to speed up.


GT Dad, I was reading between the lines like Mrs Thound.

He's getting testosterone shots, reading sex books, and talking about their marriage being over.

My reaction to that would NOT be wetness between the legs but suspicion and: "I'll call the lawyer".


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

Blonde said:


> GT Dad, I was reading between the lines like Mrs Thound.
> 
> He's getting testosterone shots, reading sex books, and talking about their marriage being over.
> 
> My reaction to that would NOT be wetness between the legs but suspicion and: "I'll call the lawyer".


I think both of you are reading a wee bit too much between those lines.

Low T is a chronic problem for men of a certain age. I might be wise to have mine checked, but for now try to keep my T levels boosted through diet and exercise. Are you equating T supplements with viagra?

The "sex book" thing is pretty funny. "Married Man Sex Life" is about improving a monogomous sexual relationship, not picking up chicks in a bar. Kudos to Thound for trying to improve that area of his life.

Finally, he didn't tell her the marriage was over, he asked her, in effect, whether she was in or out. And apparently got dismissed by his wife (which certainly CAN be an answer).

Some serious gun-jumping here.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

GTdad said:


> I
> 
> The "sex book" thing is pretty funny. "Married Man Sex Life" is about improving a monogomous sexual relationship, not picking up chicks in a bar.


You and I know that but Mrs Thound doesn't.

Haven't read MMSL but have looked at the blog and have seen the advocacy on here and at times it comes across manipulative: If I "up my sex rank" and flirt with other women my wife will be jealous and suddenly horny.

errrrrrrrr, NO. 

Unfaithfulness is not sexy. Faithfulness is sexy. 
Threatening me with divorce is not sexy. Loving me and being committed to me even when I am insane with menopause is sexy. 
Spending 12-14 hours a day 7 days a week away for two months and then coming into the bedroom and expecting to be "serviced" and blaming me when you're not is not sexy. Spending time with me and connecting with me emotionally is sexy.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

I will never cheat on my wife. I have to much self respect Im just dressing nicer and working out. I do not frequent bars. I take testorone because I am listless and it was affecting my work. I would suggest people to go to Amazon.com and read the reviews for mmsl
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

edit... wrong thread.
The words I'm your mother: It means she doesn’t respect you. 

Looking through your other post, I’ve heard you say you are a doormat, co-dependant, a pleaser, not confrontational, etc. Basically, just a big ole sweety. Thing is... and I say this as nicely as I can, it’s a turn-off. You are like a big pile of clay and lack any distinct form.

Women (and men) typically like confident independent individuals with strong boundaries. She wants you to be ‘her man’. Someone she can look up to and brag about. Someone who will stand his ground on his beliefs. 

So... work on you. Work really, really hard. Just start by looking in that mirror. Do you like who you see? Change what bothers you. And DO NOT change yourself into ways you think she might like more or causes the least amount of rock in the boat... Put it this way; When she fell in love with you, that was long before you tried to be who you believed she’d want thinking you’d have a blissful marriage (didn’t work did it). You were your own man back then and she loved that. Find some of your old self again and some swagger to your step.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

And my blood work confirmed I was low T.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Thankz Racer. The one thing thag really hurts my self esteem is my "man boobs" I feel really selfish spending 7 gs on myself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

Blonde said:


> You and I know that but Mrs Thound doesn't.
> 
> Haven't read MMSL but have looked at the blog and have seen the advocacy on here and at times it comes across manipulative: If I "up my sex rank" and flirt with other women my wife will be jealous and suddenly horny.
> 
> ...


I just don't know where you're getting this stuff from. MMSL is about relearning how to flirt with your wife, to be the man she fell in love with in the first place.

He didn't threaten his wife with divorce, rather, he asked her whether she was in the mariage or out. Her response indicates she's out.

"Serviced", eh? Thound states that she's been been distant for 10 years. I don't have any reason not to believe him; it mirrors my own experience and struggles. I'm not sure why you're reading his story so vastly different than I am.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

GTdad said:


> I just don't know where you're getting this stuff from.


To be precise, from MMSL promoters who also link here: The Sixteen Commandments Of Poon | Chateau Heartiste 

II. Make her jealous

Flirt with other women in front of her. Do not dissuade other women from flirting with you. Women will never admit this but jealousy excites them. The thought of you turning on another woman will arouse her sexually. No girl wants a man that no other woman wants. The partner who harnesses the gale storm of jealousy controls the direction of the relationship.​
 What a crock of sh**!


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

Agreed, it is crap. But it's also a huge stretch to hold Thound responsible for "flirting with other women" based on the fact that he read a book by a guy who has a website which has a link to another site which includes this list.

I'd rather focus on the facts of this situation as thy're presented.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Just to be clear. I have not flirted with anyone nor do I intend to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

Thound said:


> Just to be clear. I have not flirted with anyone nor do I intend to.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


After the threads I've participated in today, I'm thinking that women are to be treated with extreme wariness, not flirted with.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Thound said:


> Just to be clear. I have not flirted with anyone nor do I intend to.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:smthumbup:

Thound, I'm all for self improvement. BTDT myself and it does make one feel good to look sharp, have energy, and know that life will go on and be fulfilling no matter what one's spouse decides.

So I can cheer you on with goals like that.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

GTdad said:


> After the threads I've participated in today, I'm thinking that women are to be treated with extreme wariness, not flirted with.


Yep, some of these married 40somethings banging 22 yo's might wind up with a terrible std. http://www.cdc.gov/std/health-disparities/age.htm There are images of infected male body parts on google if you want to be grossed out...

and they think the grass is greener ((((shakes head))))


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

GTdad said:


> Agreed, it is crap. But it's also a huge stretch to hold Thound responsible for "flirting with other women" based on the fact that he read a book by a guy who has a website which has a link to another site which includes this list.


Yeah, well, his wife's assumptions are within the realm of what passes for MMSL on TAM.

But rest easy, GTdad, Thound has thoroughly reassured me that he has no intention of such despicable, NON-sexy, marriage killing behavior.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Thound said:


> Thankz Racer. The one thing thag really hurts my self esteem is my "man boobs" I feel really selfish spending 7 gs on myself.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


lol... Moobs... I was just joking with friends last night that I hate the tan line and only have a month until pool season to get my breast reduction . Gym is helping, still need to loose 30 lbs.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

@Blondie The sex is only half the problem. I miss the hug and kisses just as much as the passionate sex.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 41362 (Dec 14, 2012)

Thound said:


> Thankz Racer. The one thing thag really hurts my self esteem is my "man boobs" I feel really selfish spending 7 gs on myself.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I can sympathize. Mine are nearly gone but it takes some effort.

Talk to a nutritionist and get yourself on a 1500-1800 calorie (net) daily intake. (Tell them you want to avoid grains, and that you want high lean protein and lower carb. Do not cut the carbs out of the picture completely. Carbs are fuel for exercise, but you want the right carbs)

Trim the alcohol

Cardio workouts 3-5 times a week for 30-60 minutes. (I recommend running as it gets rid of the fat and builds lower body muscle)

Weight training focusing on upper body 3-4 times a week.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

So - just to clarify, are you working 12 to 14 hours a day, 7 days a week (which is 84 to 96 hours a week) or ... are you only working 40 hours a week?

Both those things can't be true at the same time.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Starstarfish said:


> So - just to clarify, are you working 12 to 14 hours a day, 7 days a week (which is 84 to 96 hours a week) or ... are you only working 40 hours a week?
> 
> Both those things can't be true at the same time.


My normal schedule is 40hrs. On a plant turnaround the schedule goes to 12hrs 7days a week until the plant comes up. Im a supervisor so I have to be here b4 my guys get here and stay until they leave. The turnaround last 6 to8 weeks. Startup lasts 1.5 weeks typically.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

How often (during the year) does this happen?


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Starstarfish said:


> How often (during the year) does this happen?


Every 2 or 4 years
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

Thound said:


> Every 2 or 4 years
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Then it shouldn't be that big of a deal in the marriage. My brother-in-law has worked at the Shell refinery for decades; it's just part of the gig, one that pays very well.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

GTdad said:


> Then it shouldn't be that big of a deal in the marriage. My brother-in-law has worked at the Shell refinery for decades; it's just part of the gig, one that pays very well.


Very very well
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Is there a reliable way to look up a cell phone number?


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Thound said:


> Is there a reliable way to look up a cell phone number?


Never mind I just remembered TAM is making me paranoid :lol:


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Thound said:


> Well I came home from work this evening and found my wife very quite sort moaping and I asked her whatis wrong. She said nothing was wrong. I have been working 12 to 14 hours a day 7 days a week since Jan.12th. When it gets to bed time I get out of the shower and notice her in bed facing away from me. She never does that. I got really pissed and I asked her once again what was wrong she said curtly nothing was wrong. I fianally told her if she didn't want to be with me she needed to let me know. She got kinda p1$$3d and asked where did that come from. I told her 10 years ago you told me you didn't know if you had the right kind of love for me, and in the last 10 years you have said or done anything to change that. She told me she feels like she is my mother (ouch). She said if I was not happy she would leave. She also said she was going thru menopause and I told she wasn't 10 years ago. Then she commented about me getting testerone shots and reading sex books. (She saw my MMSL in my truck when she used it the other dat DOH!) She told me she was slowing down in life and I'm wanting to speed up. I told her the book I was reading was about quit being a child and be a man (in so many words). Oh well I don't know what will transpire next, but I told her I agreed she probably does feel like my mother as I have always let her run things. She said she didn't know how to make me happy and I told her was not responsible for my happiness only hers. Oh well may be time to start another thread in another section. We shall see.


Sorry to keep bumping this up. I have been wondering why she said she would leave versus I could leave. On another note, tonite we went out to eat and I got to thinking we never look each other in the eye, so I made sure to make eye contact and she couldn't look me in the eyes for more than a second or two.
Maybe I'm over thinking things. I don't know I'm a paranoid person by nature. I do have a session with an IC Monday.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Thound said:


> I do have a session with an IC Monday.


How'd it go?


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Blonde said:


> How'd it go?


Nothing earth shattering. She (IC) agreed I should work on myself. She reassured me that I was a good man. A couple of days before my appointment I sent her a history of us from dating to the present.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Pardon the bump. Yesterday was my birthday. I got the usual gift card. No birthday card, and the gift card envelope just lister her and the kids name, no I LOVE YOU.

Tomorrow is her birthday. Should I get her a card, should I say love thound or what?

Really didn't want to start another thread, so I bumped this one.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Oh I didn't get the obligatory bday sex either. She managed to find something to get pizzed about before bedtime.


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## MambaZee (Aug 6, 2013)

Thound said:


> Pardon the bump. Yesterday was my birthday. I got the usual gift card. No birthday card, and the gift card envelope just lister her and the kids name, no I LOVE YOU.
> 
> Tomorrow is her birthday. Should I get her a card, should I say love thound or what?
> 
> Really didn't want to start another thread, so I bumped this one.


Happy belated birthday. Very sorry about how it went.

I had to go back to the beginning of this thread to see what's going on. It sounds like your W is _really_ checked out, I'm sad to say. However, I thought I was 100% gone at one point, too. It was only after I woke up that I realized how long I was done (maybe a year or so). Unfortunately, the longer she feels done, the worse it gets. Has _anything_ changed with her since you started this thread?

FWIW, I'd get her a card, and I'd put "love" on it. I don't think tit-for-tat is going to help in this case. Besides, you can always say that _you_ tried your hardest even if she didn't.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

ditto MZ, give her the card with the "I love you" and maybe even take her out to dinner. Do for her what you wish she would have done for you.

And here is a passage which helped me: 1 Pet 3:8-12. Think about the calling and the *promise *of blessing for doing good.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Blonde said:


> ditto MZ, give her the card with the "I love you" and maybe even take her out to dinner. Do for her what you wish she would have done for you.
> 
> And here is a passage which helped me: 1 Pet 3:8-12. Think about the calling and the *promise *of blessing for doing good.


Thanks Blondie. I took yalls advice and signed it with love. How are you doing?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

doing great today :smthumbup:

and taking one day at a time


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Blonde said:


> doing great today :smthumbup:
> 
> and taking one day at a time


Awesome!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

Thound said:


> Yesterday was my birthday. .


HAPPY, HAPPY , HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!! :birthday:


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

LonelyinLove said:


> HAPPY, HAPPY , HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!! :birthday:


Why thank you very much.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Why Not Be Happy? (Apr 16, 2010)

Happy birthday....and hang in there.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Why Not Be Happy? said:


> Happy birthday....and hang in there.


THANKS
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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