# Wife Tells Me She Hated Me Before Affair



## mclovin (Nov 18, 2008)

In another post I asked for some advice relating to an emotional affair my wife has had and continues. She refused to stop the affair and work on our marriage. She keeps telling me that there were problems before she started the affair between us. Last night during conversation she told me that I sicken her. She told me that her stomache turns at the thought of me coming home from work. I was sitting at the table eating and she told me that just her seeing me and hearing my voice causes makes her despise and hate me even more.

I'm not a perfect person and since our son has been born we haven't spent enough time with each other as a couple. I've had some work related issues and honestly with my son being born there was stress as my wife wanted to stay home with him and not return to work. I agreed and it caused a major financial strain. This on top of the fact that my son for the first 2 years of his life has had sleeping issues didn't make things better. Over this time the stress probably got to me more than a little bit. I became miserable and somewhat antisocial which is completely not my personality. On top of that my wife has never really handled stress well and would constantly call me at work about problems with our son or finances. I always listened and tried to help her.

Now I'm at a point in which I've been going to counseling, my wife started to go but when she does go individually it seems that she is focusing on validating how to end our marriage than how to save it. 

Last night I basically had enough. I explained to her that for us to continue to live like this is just not good. It will eventually impact our son as he will see how upset I am at the affair and her behavior. Additionally he will begin to notice my wife's attitude and depression, which she doesn't get help for. I told her that our marriage cannot exist with 3 people (me, her and the other guy). She says she values our family, which she really means that she worries about our son and how he would be affeced by a divorce. As a side note, she says that if he wasn't in the picture she would have been long gone. I also told her that we need to go to marriage counseling together and also continue seperate counseling. Initially she was upset and then suddenly snapped and said "ok, i'll stop talking to him and go to counseling". I of course, being emotional, said "I hope I can believe you and that you won't talk to him anymore and really try to work on us." She flipped out and called everything off. She said that when she says she'll work on things I throw something like that back in her face. 

Now she has lied to me 4 times over the past few months saying that she has stopped talking to the other guy, only for me to find out that she hasn't. I can't help the way I feel and I'm just trying to communicate with her. The weird thing is that she then tells me "I can understand you feeling that way" but that "she sick of it." 

I told her that if she could not work on those two things than I have to move ahead with filing for divorce. I know this is probably drastic, but I am completely at a loss. To hear that she hates me and would be "long gone" if it weren't for our son. I mean I'm really trying. I've always been there for my wife. I've helped her get a degree and supported her with encouragement. I've helped her get a teaching job. I've always been affectionate to her (flowers, nice cards, emails, notes, etc). My wife has never really been that giving back though and has been very critical of me over our 9 year marriage. I mean I can't even eat chips in our presence because it "annoys her". 

Sorry for the length. I just am really torn. I don't want a divorce, but I can't make my wife try and really she has.n't shown any signs of trying at all. She just wants to continue to coexist, talk to her lover, go out with friends. She recently told me that she would be going out on New Year's Even with her friend and wouldn't be coming home. She actually believes that there is nothing wrong with that request and was upset with me when I was upset with her telling me. It's like I can't win.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

mclovin said:


> She told me that her stomache turns at the thought of me coming home from work. I was sitting at the table eating and she told me that just her seeing me and hearing my voice causes makes her despise and hate me even more.


You're just not getting it my friend. Once a woman says that, you have to move out within days. Any capitulation just makes you look spineless in her eyes, which will make her despise you even more.

You are quite right, children will do much better without having to witness that sort of interaction.

Tell me about the chips thing. Are you overweight?


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

MT...just to clarify, in the US chips = crisps not french fries so it's probably in reference to the crunching sound.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

*swedish*


Well in that case it would amount to her not only despising the site of him, but any sound he made. The last sound she would ever here from me would be the door quietly closing behind me.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

swedish said:


> MT...just to clarify, in the US chips = crisps not french fries so it's probably in reference to the crunching sound.


crunching sound...weight...the color of his tie...i don't think she much cares...if she can find a reason to "hate" him, she'll do it, for this nit-wit she's carrying on with.

i think what matters here is HE has shown a willingness to work, SHE wants to get someone who'll tell her what she's doing is okay...i'm surprised by the failure rate of counseling with regard to couples. wait, no i'm not...i know the culture that's grown within the codependency movement and believe it has affected the attitudes of certain counselors...the "cut your head off to cure the migraine" technique.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

voivod said:


> i know the culture that's grown within the codependency movement and believe it has affected the attitudes of certain counselors...the "cut your head off to cure the migraine" technique.


Yeah, look at snix11's new counsellor: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/men-s-clubhouse/2405-how-get-truth-out-man-9.html#post26729


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## mclovin (Nov 18, 2008)

Yes. It's potatoe chips. Since we've been married my wife has always been irritated with stuff that most people wouldn't worry about. The crunching sound of eating chips irritates her. It's not like I stand there crunching with my mouth open either. She would get irritated by how I drank soda or any kind of drink. She gets irritated by my breathing, if I breath out of my nose. 

In going to counseling I realized that by accepting those trivial things that my wife would pound me on made me feel more miserable and resentful towards my wife. When I tried to express that her pounding on me for thiings that I really can't control makes me upset she would just discount it, so I stopped saying anything and thus became internally upset and resentful towards her. I still showed love for her, so I guess I'm a glutton for punishment because I thought that if I showed her enough love that she would see that and stop being mean to me, but it never happened.

Now I'm at this point. She's had an emotional affair with another man. She will not stop the affair and while living in the same house together she continues to talk to him. She is a stay at home mom so seperating is very hard at this point and really I don't trust that seperation will be the answer as she can just live out her fantasy with this other guy at my expense. I care for her even after all of this and I worry about my son and how he will be impacted by a divorce. 

I've read on these forums about being patient, not giving up on your marriage, etc. I don't want to give up on my marriage or my wife but I just don't know what to do. Last night when we were talking and she said she would stop talking to this guy and start going to counseling I told her that "I hope she will stop and focus on us" and she flipped out because I said that. She has told me 4 times before that she stopped talking to him only for me to find out that she hasn't. I wasn't trying to be hurtful, just honest. She told me "why should I even try if you are going to doubt it." Then she said that she was going to change her cell number and account so I couldn't see her calls. She said she was "going to call him every f'n day and talk to him and then go have sex with him." Then stormed out of our house.

I know probably most of you are thinking I'm crazy for putting up with this, but I just love my wfe and family and I really think my wife has not been right mentally and rather than helping her I just let it go and I feel responsible for not trying to help her sooner. I guess though even if I had brought this up she probably would have denied she had a problem anyway. 

I just don't get any of her behavior. I'm a caring husband and person and for her to say she hates me and do all these hurtful things is just killing me.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

mclovin said:


> I've read on these forums about being patient, not giving up on your marriage, etc. I don't want to give up on my marriage or my wife but I just don't know what to do. Last night when we were talking and she said she would stop talking to this guy and start going to counseling I told her that "I hope she will stop and focus on us" and she flipped out because I said that. She has told me 4 times before that she stopped talking to him only for me to find out that she hasn't.


reminds me of a joke. guy trying to quit smoking says "it's the easiest thing i've ever done. hell i quit 20 times a day!"
(20 cigs in a pack still, i assume)
anyway...



mclovin said:


> I wasn't trying to be hurtful, just honest. She told me "why should I even try if you are going to doubt it."


why'd you say that??? you know her routine. you knew she'd flip out!



mclovin said:


> Then she said that she was going to change her cell number and account so I couldn't see her calls. She said she was "going to call him every f'n day and talk to him and then go have sex with him." Then stormed out of our house.


nice...what a nice woman.



mclovin said:


> I know probably most of you are thinking I'm crazy for putting up with this, but I just love my wife and family and I really think my wife has not been right mentally and rather than helping her I just let it go and I feel responsible for not trying to help her sooner. I guess though even if I had brought this up she probably would have denied she had a problem anyway. .


well she succeeded. according to your counselor. she's got you feeling responsible for her mental imbalance.


mclovin said:


> I just don't get any of her behavior. I'm a caring husband and person and for her to say she hates me and do all these hurtful things is just killing me.


she's on the defensive, fighting back with evil, hurtful words. because she knows she's wrong. nobody can justify the filth that's coming out of her mouth toward you.

oh...and... you're not responsible for her mental imbalance, and it sounds like there is one. but, i'm no professional. but i'll bet there's a thousand of em in your yellow pages.


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## mclovin (Nov 18, 2008)

I can't say anything critical or she flips so knowing that I've been trying to not stire things up becuse she flips in front of our son and he doesn't deserve to see that. 

My counselor believes she has Borderline Personality Disorder but she has to want help. She really doesn't believe there is anything wrong with her. She thinks that she fell out of love wth me and that's it. She says the only reason she hasn't left is because of our son, but when I mention divorce, suddenly she will stop talking to the other guy and go to counseling, When I say that I hope she is sincere she flips out. I just can't win. 

Plus, I know she will find other ways to contact him because I could tell she wasn't being genuine. It's like a game with her. Then after her flipout last night when she came back she continued her assault asking me "If I was spying on her" because I was on our laptop. She just kept going for a few minutes and i just ignored her.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

mclovin said:


> I know probably most of you are thinking I'm crazy for putting up with this, but I just love my wfe and family and I really think my wife has not been right mentally and rather than helping her I just let it go and I feel responsible for not trying to help her sooner. I guess though even if I had brought this up she probably would have denied she had a problem anyway.


With your present attitude, there is little hope for you. The only chance you have at all is to become very very firm. Why you still love her is a mystery only you can solve. By compromising your self esteem, you are condemned to the quality of life you now have with her.

If you want a different result, you MUST apply different behaviour. Sorry to be so blunt, but it's a fraction of the harshness you are getting from her, I'm just trying to be a mirror for you.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

mclovin said:


> She thinks that she fell out of love wth me and that's it.


It's way more than that. Falling out of love can happen when there is distance and/or resentment building over time but her level of anger sounds pretty high. She seems past being out of love and feeling sad but still wanting the best for you. Whatever caused her resentment is probably still being fueled by whoever she vents to (TOM?) and making things worse.

At this point, I would avoid saying anything to her that she might imply as sarcastic or putting her down (sounds as if 'well, I hope so' was received that way) Don't give her reasons to fuel her anger...I think you are absolutely right in saying she needs to end all contact with TOM...this may seem like an impossible request to her if he is her source of support so the more calm you are the less chance she will keep running back to him (sounds like she does this in her mind...as soon as anything you say bothers her she's right back there)

Be firm in what you will stand for but in the end you cannot control her choices, but you can sure make her think twice about them if you continue to show her that she has a good husband and father to her son. The only time I would say something is if she started up in front of your son...I would say 'we need to talk about this in private' He needs to be protected from that.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

there are two emotions. and they aren't love and hate. they are love and indifference. if she's hating, it's because there's still love. it sucks, but it's there.

i remember when my wife finally "had it" and told me that was it. shecried so hard, saying that i was not a "team player" in our marriage and "how could you do this...to us."

i have to tell you, it really made me feel like she loved me and i was disappointed in letting her down. it also felt like, "wow, she must really love me."

hate vs. indifference.


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## magicsunset08 (Oct 30, 2008)

Have been throught his crap myself, i think she is trying to make you mad so you will leave (not her fault) She does not hate you man. She is just trying to push you away. Quit talking to her, but whatever you do if you are committed and she wants to separate...don't you leave. You get her out! I left because my wife said we needed a separation and she did not have any where to go. I took the initiative to find a place for myself and I resented it the whole time. She got exactly what she wanted! She got her space and the kids stayed with Mom and the kids saw Daddy walk out the door. If you are committed. tell her that. And then get her **** and put it out the door! If you love yourself you will do that. If you can't do that because you love her you are lying to yourself...Because you can't possibly love her if you don't love yourslef. I heard it all to. I was a horrible kisser, my wife did not want me home or to come home herself, she never felt good enough for me, i wore the same coat too often, my hair, my car, everything!!!! That's why she can't stand you right now because she does not see it your way. She sees it as Twain said...."spineless"! Don't threaten her. Dont say, if you don't commit I will have to pursue divorce. She obviously thinks you have no spine, so she sees what you are saying as crap and just threats. I am not telling you what to do, I am telling you what you are doing won't EVER work. It took me 1 1/2 years to figure it out. I looked into my wifes eyes just about 1 month ago (because my sister is going through the same mess & my wife and I are trying to help her) and said "I did it once and I won't ever do it again! Life is too short! It would not take me 5 minutes to walk." She know i was not threatening her because she can tell in my attitude. Stop walking on eggshells--grow some balls and don't allow yourself to be walked on. I know it's hard, but don't wait 1.5 years to figure it out!---like me.


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## American Arrogance (Sep 5, 2008)

Well my two cents is...her saying if she didnt have the kid she would have ben long gone...well if you two didnt have the kid then maybe she wouldnt be this way and your marriage would be fine. She became a stay at home mom to care for the child. It can be hard and I know this may sound harsh but as a mom I cant be around my kids all day everyday. I chose to go to work to be able to socialize and itneract with other adults outside of kiddie issues. She may feel this way.

I say take a vacation, spend quality time with each other. Seems with a kid around this relationship has been mostly about being a fmaily and forgetting you both are still individuals.

Before anyone jumps down my throat. I am married, Im female and I have 4 kids. What this man is goign through is similiar to how I felt about my husband for awhile. But we took a vacation for a week, our first in 8 years of marriage and it worked wonders. We ended up having another baby, What happens in Vegas Stays in Vegas was a lie.....lol

Anywho, you two need time away from being a family. If that doesnt work then I guess seperating will do some good.

Oh and if she isnt working, then more than likely she staying becuase you are the provider. Let her live in her own place and try to be a single parent and see how fast she will love you. Not saying single parenting is hard but if she cant cut it in a dual parent relationship then the wont be able to handle the added stress of being the sole provider of her child.


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## mclovin (Nov 18, 2008)

Thank you all for the advice.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

mclovin-

Your wife seems to be saying that you were depriving her of sex and intimacy and she got fed up. Is that true?



mclovin's wife said:


> I don't hate you like you are thinking. I am just indifferent. I feel like we grew apart. I don't understand you either. You tell me yesterday that you are filing for divorce and yet again today I get a message like this one. I think you should still file. I will get the paperwork ready for you this weekend. I don't know what to do. Like I said to you before, I do not want to break up our family for our son's sake. I think we both agreed that was not good enough. Additionally, I feel like you are in denial as to the extent of our problems pre-Aaron. (the other guy) I know you touched upon it below, but it seems like you are telling yourself and Jim(my counselor) and probably your parents that this is happening because of me. You want to work on it and I don't. I love someone else. You are trying everything and I am doing nothing. Did you tell these people that we have not had a conversation aside from pregnancy or our son in about 3 years? Did you tell them that every night you go downstairs (or now fall asleep with our son) while I take a bath and we sleep seperately? Did you tell them that there is zero intimacy between us and it has been that was for quite some time now? Did you tell them that we never go anywhere or have anything resembling fun or have any friends? I feel miserable, and I don't know how to snap out of it, Aaron or no Aaron. What you and your less than intuitive counselor have failed to relaize is that Aaron is not the problem. He is a symptom of the problem at this point. While it makes sense to you and "everyone else" (since I am nuts) that I should ditch Aaron (and I understand I can't continue 2 relationships), it is hard for me to give up someting that I feel strongly about just to go back to a miserable boring life. What I have done has now become the main focus of our problems - which I can understand why- but the truth of the matter is that there were many issues prior to Aaron. I know this is a lot of rambling - maybe Jim can continue to diagnose me if you show this to him- but I am not sure what else to say right now


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

this is her admitting that she knew there was a problem. i guess (am i wrong) that she didn't let you in on what was bothering her? 

i can hear it now. "okay, there's problem x, y, and z. i became indifferent. then i found aaron. i don't feel indifferent about him. so that's my choice."

"you told me you were filing for divorce. that makes what i'm doing okay."

so you apparently told her you were, she called your "bluff" (?), and said she'd get the paperwork ready. i don't know if where you are is a "no-fault" divorce state (the biggest cop out in civil law) but i think you'd be hurting yourself to not file. you need to have introduced to the legal system that she was an adulterer. things might not so "green" on that side of the fence.

i am truly sorry for you both. i am an anabashed fan of the notion of faithfully fulfilling the obligations of the covenant of the marriage vows. i wish you the best. her day will come.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Right now, she is definitely getting the void she felt within the marriage being met by TOM and she has also convinced herself that giving him up will mean going back to life as before.

At this point, if you agree with her that you neglected her physical and emotional needs in the past she may need your acknowledgment of that. 

She may be angry with herself that she got emotionally attached with another man, but it almost sounds as though she is more angry at you for setting her up to get her needs met elsewhere....doesn't justify what she is doing but she sounds like she feels stuck no matter what she does it will be wrong on some level. So now, she's feels she's being labeled the 'bad guy' but in reality just wants to be happy. 

Best solution for her would be that you step in and fill this void because if she continues with TOM and things eventually go south, she will be in a really bad place. I hope you can convince her to give your marriage an honest shot.


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## mclovin (Nov 18, 2008)

Until yesterday I don't think I was able to admit that I was really part of the problem. Reading her email and talking to her last night made me realize that TOM is not the problem he is just a result of a bigger problem my wife and I have.

I really feel bad and a bit angry at my counselor for not helping me better in understanding this or focusing on our problems pre TOM. I blame myself for not seeing it sooner.

Right now my wife needs some space and time and I love her so I will give her that. I hope that she can see that I really do love her and didn't purposely try to neglect her, we just had a lot going on and lost focus on our marriage and relationship. I mean all kinds of bad stuff was happening to me. My job sucked, I was stressed out about our finances and trying to be the main provider. I really didn't think my wife cared for me as much as I cared for her. Some of the little stuff that I used to shrug off would irritate me like my wife harping on me about crunching chips and stuff. I never talked to my wife about how I was feeling and she tried sometimes to talk to me but I was somewhat bitter and just didn't want to hear it. Then add to it fertility issues, lack of balance after our son was born, and my son's sleeping issues and it just got really bad.

I just hope that my wife can see that I do value the things that she wants like friends, seperate time, together time, etc. Sometimes I guess you try to point out the issues with the othe rperson without really seeing what you did yourself to get in the mess to begin with. I think I starting to see what I have done wrong and instead of focus on TOM I'm going to focus on that. I just hope that it's not too late. I just love her so much and jsut hate myself for not seeing this and not being loving and caring enough in the way my wife needed. I think I've been a pretty good father to our son, but a pretty crappy husband for a few years at least.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

mclovin-

I feel that up until the point where you showed us her email, you misled us somewhat: She seemed totally unreasonable. since reading her email, it seems like it's the other way around. I realise you did not deliberately mislead us - you seemed as surprised as the rest of us!

If you want advice, worthwhile advice, you have to give a fair picture. Stop beating around the bush and give us the facts - we're all anonymous here. You don't need to use "infertility" as a euphemism for something else. 

We are here to help


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Being able to see her side in this is a big step forward, especially if there are things you want to change about yourself (for you) but also from her perspective to know you understand how your marriage got to this point. She will be more apt to discuss how you got here and what you plan to going forward if she feels the entire burden isn't on her and she isn't the 'bad guy' and that there really is a great option in all of this (not just run to TOM or stay in an unhappy marriage) but to have a marriage that is stronger than ever...

A few things I would do right now...you/she had made mention of family members thinking she's gone crazy, etc....I would keep them out of the loop at this point...I'd probably talk to them and say you realized you played a big part in how she's been feeling the last few years and both realize you are both at fault...if she decides to work on your marriage...that will be an area where she may feel hurt and betrayed if she feels the outside family has turned against her.

The other thing is, having TOM in her life will prevent you both from rebuilding your marriage...you will have to decide the best approach on this but if you give in and let her stay in contact with him she will flip-flop mentally (the fantasy of him will most likely be easier than trying to rebuild the marriage) and it will be difficult for the two of you to move forward.

Stay hopeful...these last few days are a great start.


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## mclovin (Nov 18, 2008)

I'm not sure what your talking about Twain. Swedish you are right. I just didn't know who else to turn to when all this first happened and talking to my family was my outlet. In hindsight it probably was the worst thing because I really focused more on the affair and not on the other stuff. My wife then thought that everyone was against her I'm sure. The reality is that my parents and family are upset at what happened but they do care about my wife. My mom flipped out on her the one day which didn't help things. I can see why my wife feels really outnumbered and more alone. Her mom also comes down on her about all of this too. 

I'm not trying to make excuses but I was really emotional when I found out about all of this. I mean the affair part. The fact that our marriage was having trouble was not news I just chose to ignore it and we basically coexisted. 

I just hope my wife realizes that I am trying to see her point of view and trying to understand. The hard part is her talking to TOM because it really does upset me. I will not make demands on her to stop talking to him because I just think it makes her more angry with me. I will just try to be more understanding and listen more to her when she wants to talk and hopefully her feelings for TOM will fade and she will decide to stop talking to him. 

I mean I think if I am more understanding and she still continues to talk to him then I'll have to cross that bridge when I come to it and deal with what to do, but by my actions I really haven't given her any reason to stop talking to him because I've been all over the place emotionally and made things worse. I hope this makes sense.

Maybe I need medication. LOL


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## Leahdorus (Jul 28, 2008)

Having been in your wife's shoes, I can tell you that she will likely find it very difficult to stop talking to TOM. And while she's talking to him, it will be next to impossible to focus on your marriage. As Swedish said, the fantasy in her head is pretty powerful and it's easier to stay with that than with the more difficult task of rebuilding a troubled marriage. If my husband had let me keep talking to the guy, I don't know that I would have stopped. Why should I? I had the best of both worlds; emotional support from one side and the husband on the side providing for the family.

I really think you need to ask her to stop all contact with TOM. Yeah, it will make her angry, but it will only keep the distance between you, even if you do everything in your power to fix things from your side. If she doesn't want to separate or divorce, then she needs to give up the other guy.

Sorry for being so harsh, but I learned that lesson the hard way, and now, a year later, am finally seeing some light at the end of the tunnel as things improve. Just trying to help.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

mclovin said:


> I'm not sure what your talking about Twain.


Read my last two posts. If you still don't know what I'm asking, maybe I need to leave you to it.


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## Quenton (Nov 21, 2008)

from a person who had an affair and fell "in love" with someone else, i can tell you that everything she is telling you is a result of these feelings for the other person.

prior to the affair i had, my wife and i didn't get along the greatest, but it was never as bad as i made myself believe, and then others. i too told her the things your wife has told you...from "i hate you" to "your presence makes me sick"...everything. i made her believe that our relationship had failed years before the affair to make myself feel better. i would do anything to justify what i was doing to wreck our marriage and to make it "okay" in my eyes...didn't care what anybody else thought.

i don't have the answers, but i can tell you that the email you shared from her above is the same bunch of b.s. and lies that i would spew to my wife, again, just to make myself feel better about what i was doing.

you've a choice. if you honestly believe you can win her back, hang in there. my wife did, and she won me back. if you think it's a lost cause, then it's definitely time to bail.

how you'll come to that decision...i honestly don't know. what finally worked for me, or moreso, for my wife, was me realizing how little a part i would play in our kids' lives. that hurt and made me wake up. how to make her realize that you and her are your child's parents and he needs the both you together and happy i don't know.

but what i do know, and i did finally realize, is that we can control who we love. needing to love is no where nearly as easy as loving someone we want to love. you have to turn the need into a want, and this is what she needs to realize. it's possible...i know.

good luck, that's all i can say at this point...i'm no counselor, but i've been there...


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## mclovin (Nov 18, 2008)

Quenton, at what point did you end your affair? What made you do it? Was it something your wife did or did you just figure it out on your own?

Leah, how did you stop your affair? Did your spouse demand you stop? I'm just curious.

I appreciate your comments. I just get really confused. My wife says she knows it is wrong to talk to him and that it hurts me. She doesn't want to stop and go back to her miserable life with me, which I can understand how lonely she felt and that I wasn't there. I really believe that her attraction to TOM is more of a crutch at this point and time. I mean, maybe I'm wrong on that, but I really believe she hasn't been able to figure anything out because I'm constantly all over her about this situation.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

Quenton said:


> from a person who had an affair and fell "in love" with someone else, i can tell you that everything she is telling you is a result of these feelings for the other person.
> 
> prior to the affair i had, my wife and i didn't get along the greatest, but it was never as bad as i made myself believe, and then others. i too told her the things your wife has told you...from "i hate you" to "your presence makes me sick"...everything. i made her believe that our relationship had failed years before the affair to make myself feel better. i would do anything to justify what i was doing to wreck our marriage and to make it "okay" in my eyes...didn't care what anybody else thought.
> 
> ...


:iagree:in the words of john madden..."boom, there ya have it."


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## mclovin (Nov 18, 2008)

I know but there has to be more than just that. The only reason my wife hasn't left me is because of our son so she does realize and worry about the impact on him. That is not enough for her to stop talking to TOM and focus on our marriage.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

mclovin said:


> I know but there has to be more than just that. The only reason my wife hasn't left me is because of our son so she does realize and worry about the impact on him. That is not enough for her to stop talking to TOM and focus on our marriage.


apparently not, and that's the key.


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## mclovin (Nov 18, 2008)

I talked to her about this the other night. I told her that you can control your feelings or at least the decisions you make relating to those feelings. That didn't go over to well. She thougth it was ridiculous because people can't just turn feelings off. I tried to explain to her that she is not going to instantly not have feelings for TOM, but that I would be there to help her through it and be supportive. 

I don't know. Sometimes I personally feel like I'm going nuts.


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## Leahdorus (Jul 28, 2008)

mclovin said:


> Leah, how did you stop your affair? Did your spouse demand you stop? I'm just curious.


My EA turned to a physical affair (slept with TOM twice) and it ended when my husband figured it out and confronted me. All along, I was not looking to replace my husband, but rather to fill a need I didn't think he was filling. A couple weeks after finding out, my husband asked me to cut off all contact. After the confrontation, I immediately stopped seeing TOM, and didn't talk to him on the phone again. I did email and chat w/ him until he asked me to stop. It was really hard. I won't lie, it was months before I could stop thinking about it every second of the day. It wasn't even the guy I missed, it was the interaction with someone who told me what I wanted to hear. Now, year later, I have done some serious work on myself and am in a much better place and am not nearly as "addicted" to being online and talking with people to fill a void. But it took a lot of work, and the threat of losing my family, who I love more than anything.


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## mclovin (Nov 18, 2008)

I've asked my wife to stop talking to TOM several times and she said she would stop and then I would find out that she didn't. I actually blocked his number from her cell but she would then call him. Then before he went to Iraq he actually called my house, when I was home to talk to my wife. I completely flipped out about it. But even with that he still calls her from Iraq to tell her how he is doing I guess. He called her last week to tell her that he will be delayed in returning home because his unit is being held longer or something.

I thought that when he went to Iraq we would have a break from him and maybe during that time and we would be able to talk. It hasn't happened. My wife says she doesn't want to get a divorce and break up our family for our son's sake. But at the same time she isn't ready to try to do anything to keep our family together. Some of that I feel is my fault because I've just been so emotional about this and I know that isn't helping the situation, it's just making my wife go further and further away from me.

I focused way to much on TOM instead of the problems before him. She told me again yesterday that she would stop talking to him and I hope she is serious and does stop. I hope that she sees that I do understand the problems happened before him and I hope she sees that I am here for her now and want to be with her. 

I can't force her to love me again, but I can be understanding and I have let her know that I will be there for her when she is ready to talk to me. Again, I jsut don't know what else to do because I don't want to regret not trying everything I could. I just feel that from the start things were just so crazy and neither of us had time to really reflect on anything because we were at each other.

What I can't understand is why my wife doesn't see the person I was and can be again. I mean I was really a fun person to be around, which is why my wife loved me. I would listen and talk with her when she took a bath. We would really enjoy each other and being together. Even when things were bad I would still do nice things for her but it's like all of that has been forgotten I guess . I think of the good things about her and that's why I want things to work out. Even with all of this I realize people make mistakes and that I played a big part in causing this.


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## Quenton (Nov 21, 2008)

mclovin said:


> Quenton, at what point did you end your affair? What made you do it? Was it something your wife did or did you just figure it out on your own?
> 
> Leah, how did you stop your affair? Did your spouse demand you stop? I'm just curious.
> 
> I appreciate your comments. I just get really confused. My wife says she knows it is wrong to talk to him and that it hurts me. She doesn't want to stop and go back to her miserable life with me, which I can understand how lonely she felt and that I wasn't there. I really believe that her attraction to TOM is more of a crutch at this point and time. I mean, maybe I'm wrong on that, but I really believe she hasn't been able to figure anything out because I'm constantly all over her about this situation.


Basically, what it boiled down to was 4 year old and a 2 year old and then later, after the dreaded "admit to everything" talk, the fact that she had been with me what seems like forever and the realization that she'll do anything for me to make me happy. So, I finally decided to do the "admit to everything" talk and expected her to tell me to leave and she wanted a divorce...she did the exact opposite and begged me to stay and to make our marriage work. So, I did, and I'm happier now than I've ever been in my life. 

In the process, however, she had made some changes...she changed her appearance, which was nice, but moreso and more importantly to me, she changed her attitude and became a strong, independent woman, and not the same weak individual that I was use to leaning on me for everything. Not saying that made is okay to do what I did, I know it doesn't. But it definitely didn't hurt in getting me to come back.

I think you need to make some changes in your life...it may help, it couldn't hurt. What those changes are, well, attitude is the most important. How to change that...there's prolly more qualified people here to help you with that. And, if you can get her to, start doing things (out to dinner, whatever it is you share in common with her) with her as oft as she will, but don't forget to give her space...that's important.

Good luck.


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## Quenton (Nov 21, 2008)

take all of this for what it is...MY OPNION.

after reading more of your responses, you definitely need to make some internal attitude changes toward her, IMO. you need to try your very best to SHOW her why she is lucky to have you. this takes a bit of time to develop and unravel. however, in the end, she needs to piss or get off the pot.

this is NO WHERE NEAR healthy for your son and NEVER will be.

SHE NEEDS TO REALIZE that SHE chose the path to walk with YOU through life when she said "I do". and when she chose to have a baby with you, she chose to be there to support that child the best she possibly can, which includes you AND her TOGETHER in that child's life. you, NOR YOUR SON, forced her to make any of those choices. she needs to grow up and realize this.

she really needs to understand just how bad this will affect your son throughout his life if she doesn't soon get her head surgically removed from her rearend.

example: my brother divorced his son's mother when he was 10 years old. he was such a good kid at that time...he's now in juvenile detention. 

now, on the other hand, if/when she does determine to make it work with you, your relationship needs to get healthy and remain healthy. 

i'm telling you...i work in education and the biggest problem kids we have come from split families and from unhappy families. your wife is sending your son on the highway to hell and she doesn't know it.

let her read this. she doesn't know how bad right now she's screwing up with this other guy. NOTHING good can come from it.

you need to step up also and start loving her like she deserves to be loved and her you also....

i'll step down from my unearned soap box now...


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## mclovin (Nov 18, 2008)

I appreciate your response Quenton. I think I am showing her love and support during this time. I may not have always been clear because emotionally I was really hurt by what happened. 

My wife is just really emotional right now and very depressed. I try to talk to her about it and help her but she has to realize that she needs help and get it. 

She was talking to me this weekend and was saying that she's just not cut out for all of this. She says she loves our son, but she probably wouldn't have had a child if it was her decision. Ironically TOM has told her he felt the same way about his marriage and that his wife wanted kids right away and he didn't and wasn't sure he wanted children. 

My wife thinks that TOM is helping her and takes her away from her "miserable life" but the truth is that her talking to him makes her feel her life is a mistake. My son is such a great, loving, smart kid and my wife staying home with him is a huge part of that. She says she loves him so much but yet then she says she wishes that we didn't have him. I tried to give her space this weekend and she went out with a girlfriend during the day. When she came back she was miserable again. She said it was because she knew she had to come back to "this situation" and dealing with our son. 

My wife cannot see right now that her life is not as horrible as she is making it to be. She is in a pit right now and just can't dig out and nothing I feel nothing I do helps her. A friend of mine has a vacant 3200 square foot home that she has offered to us so that my wife can get some space. I told my wife that she can be with our son during the day and at night go to the other house so we can be seperated, which is something she wanted. She initially thought of idea but doesn't want to do it now, even though all we would have to pay for would be the utilities. I also asked my wife if she maybe wanted to visit her friend who lives in Florida for 4 days to get away and she doesn't want to do that either. It's like I can't win. She doesn't think that any of this will help because she still has to "come back". 

I really love my wife. I'm really hurt that she is hurting. She is a good person and I always thought she loved her family and enjoyed her life. Now it's like everything sucks and nothing is good in her eyes. I hate TOM because he is just feeding her more BS and it's screwing her up even more. He's in Iraq and I hope he steps on a land mine. She thinks he's the greatest thing in the world, but he just keeps sinking her deeper and deeper with every conversation. She doesn't think that but it's obvious.

Now the holidays are coming up and I just know things are going to get worse. Her Mom is being a complete idiot for Thanksgiving, which is putting more stress on my wife. Like she or I need anymore stress.


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## mclovin (Nov 18, 2008)

Well, it looks like the end of the road. Last night my wife and I had a complete blow-up argument.

I came home from work and my wife asked me if we could split our tax return so she could put a down payment on a nose job. I was a little suprised by the request. She said that we never use our tax return for something for us and we could split it. She would use her half to put down for a nose job and I could use the other half for something I wanted. She said if we do get divorced that I could subtract that money from what we would split during a divorce settlement. 

This weekend I took the approach of understanding with my wife. I explained to her that I would try to better focus on what happened before TOM came in the picture. I had a seperation solution in which a friend of mine has a vacant home that my wife could go to at night to get away from me. I also offered her time to get away and visit one of her girlfriends in Florida for a few days. In short my wife said that she alreayd knows all the problems before TOM, she didn't want to live/seperate because living in another house with a bunch of furniture wouldn't work (even though we'd only have to pay utilities for her to live in the house), and that going to visit her firiend doesn't solve the problem because she would still have to come back to deal with the situation.

I was just trying to offer my wife some space, away from me and our son to think about the situation and I guess that just wasn't good enough.

Then last night she drops the nose job thing. My son wouldn't go to sleep last night because her mother took him out to eat and probably got him all jacked up on soda, so he was wired up. I was irritated because I needed to do something and he wouldn't sleep. I went into get her, she was in the bath and I was irritated. She got upset with me and when she was done with her bath came in to our son's room. Then the argument began as she was upset with me saying stuff about her Mom, which I can understand. I don't excuse my behavior, but I was just frustrated because I'm always the one to bath and put my son to bed, I too am stressed over this situation, and how my wife continues to be selfish. 

We were screaming at each other really badly and at one point I got inches from her face and we were just screaming at each other. Then my wife starts smiling at me and taunting me to hit her. I didn't and just left to go back to my son's room. She comes storming in and punches me in the back. Then when I lay down with my son she says that I'm "trying to be the hero again and make her look bad". Then my son says "mommy stop yelling" which makes me feel horrible and makes my wife even more po'd. She then starts saying that it's over and she is calling her lawyer for a divorce because she can't take it anymore. Then tells me how much more she hates me and how she is going to get child support and alimony and that I'll have to sell our house and all kinds of other hurtful crap.

My son finally went to sleep, at 11pm. and I was downstair when she comes down. I'm on the phone with my friend from work and she begins to mock me more about who I'm talking to. First she asks if it is my counselor or my mom. Then she says that I'm looking for "pity party" and she "hopes it makes me feel better".

I couldn't really sleep last night and just can't deal with this anymore. We will be going on month 4 of this and she has not many any attempt to try and work on our marriage with me or even help herself. I have tried to hang in there because I think she needs help and isn't thinking clearly, but I'm at my limit. Now I believe it really is impacting our son and being with her in the same house is just hurting him.

Any thoughts or advice. This is such a hard decision because I love my family, my wife and my son, but this is just not healthy. If my wife was trying or going to counseling with me or something it would be different, but all I get is "I just don't have feelings for you and I don't know how to get them back". I don't know how she will if she doesn't want to do anything with me, can't stand to be around me, and doesn't want to stop talking to TOM.


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## oxygen (Dec 30, 2008)

I have just read all of the posts and must tell you that you are at the wrong website! Your wife has Borderline Personality Disorder! You need to quickly find a forum for spouses of BPD sufferers. I am sorry to see that the others on this forum did not pay closer attention to this when you mentioned it at the very beginning.

Unless others on this forum have been married to a BPD person, they really have no way to understand what you are going through. The very sound, rational comments that your are getting are completely useless in this situation.

I am in a similar situation. Fortunately, the violence that you have described is no longer an issue, but only because I have stopped trying to convince her that I am in love anymore. Once she realized that she could not use love as a weapon anymore, she stopped being histrionic.

I feel for you and hope that you realize that you are not the problem in this relationship, she is.


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## mclovin (Nov 18, 2008)

I read a lot about BPD. If you see my other post it just probably confirms her condition because she is just all over the place. The problem with BPDs is that very few people with that situation get help because they deny there is a problem. This my wife to a T. Instead they blame the other person for everything and take no responsibility for their actions.

I have been in complete hell since this EA started. When I look back even before that I was living in a relationship that was built on her constantly taking from me. From her constantly beating on me for things that any normal person wouldn't even care about. For her putting me down about my appearance probably to make herself feel better. 

Now that she has drained me, she's ready to move on, but at the same time she doesn't want to. She'd rather wear me down more. She wants to seperate than doesn't want to. She wants to be with TOM but then isn't sure because she doesn't want to break up our family. 

This weekend my wife stayed out late (til 2am) and we got into an argument when she came home. She kicked me as I was laying down next to my son and then badgered me, shoving the phone in my face prompting me to call the police on her. She plays these games to try and get me to hit her, which I would never do. In short, she is sick and I am sick of being a doormat and being used.

I love my family more than anything. I love my wife and value marriage, but this is not marriage. This is one person just beating another down. I can't worry about her anymore. My son just means more to me than anything. My focus will turn from worrying about her and trying to reach out to her. I will instead focus on my son and making sure he is safe and loved. I will focus on trying to heal myself from this situation and all the crap I've dealt with over the past 9 years. I really tried to help my wife, be there for my wife, and show my wife what a loving family was, but in the end her screwed up life prior to me just kept getting in the way. She doesn't deserve me and doesn't deserve the life I have given her. She is selfish and will always be selfish. I am sad writing this, but unfortunately I will not be there this time to save her from herself. I've tried but at some pont she has to help herself and admit she has a problem. I would help her and support her if she would do that but she never has and I don't think she ever will admit she has any kind of problem.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

I'm proud of you. You are now seeing things with clarity. You could be the most compassionate husband in the world. But if you continue in this, you just become an enabler. You and your son need to break this cycle before it starts to really (it may already) effect him.


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## mclovin (Nov 18, 2008)

Absolutely. So far he has been pretty much shielded from this. But she acts so crazy. I mean she kicked me and I'm laying right next to him. What if she would miss me and hit him. She already threw something at me and he was sitting next to her and saw it, got scared and came over to me. He is 2 years old and he doesn't deserve, nor does any child, to see stuff like that. 

I will not enable her behavior. I will not be compassionate or try to reason with her when she is like this. I will not feel sorry for her. What I will do is focus on what really matters...my son and his happiness and safety and my health and well-being. I just can't worry about what she is going to do or how she is acting anymore. She's moving out soon and when she's on her own she can yell at herself and act like an idiot without impacting me or my son. 

I had lunch wih a good friend today and he said to me that it would seem that in some way this might be a blessing. My wife has never really treated me with respect and instead walked all over me and treated me poorly. She has been manipulative and that really stinks because she took advantage of my kind nature. I put up with all that because I loved her and thought that what I was doing was loving and part of being a good husband. Instead of just enabled her poor behavior, made excuses for her to my family and friends and just settled for being treated like a nothing. No more.


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## matthuggybear (May 1, 2009)

I'm in the same boat.... couldn't be much difference. oh i'm feeling sick


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