# Might Be The Last STRAW!



## Todi (Aug 5, 2013)

Sorry for the LONG post, but I feel like I must provide as much detail as possible to get useful advice.

My wife of 8 years had an EA a little over a year ago. Her EA was with an ex boyfriend from her teen years and it almost destroyed our marriage. The EA was fully realized by me just as it started to cross the line, so I'll never know how far it would have gone. Either way, it destroyed the pure trust I had in my wife and has made me second guess her ever since. 

Ultimately, I decided to give her another chance. We had/have too much going for us not to try. We have two beautiful daughters and the last thing I would want to do is cause them pain... After the EA, we setup some simple guidelines when dealing with people of the opposite sex... Most of all, we both agreed not to have contact with exes from our past.

Another guidelines was full transparency. I would have access to her Facebook and Email, etc. Most of 2013, I couldn't help but feeling like I needed to check up on her occasionally. Its something that someone in a marriage should NEVER feel like they have to do. Its miserable. But unfortunately, when your trust has been shatter, it can feel like the only way to ease your nerves and reassure yourself that things are on the up-and-up. Throughout the year, the need to check up on her dwindled and no hint of betrayal was ever found. I even made it a new-years resolution for 2014 to NOT check up on her AT ALL.

I did pretty good and rarely even thought about it. For some unknown reason though, I got the feeling like I should log onto her Facebook one morning this week only to find that her password has recently been changed. I find out that it was that very morning at 3 AM no less. Odd... I tried a couple of other passwords that she had used in the past and one of them worked. It was one of the passwords that *she didn't know* I knew.... Even more ODD.

I log into her Facebook account and click on her Messages link. Nothing out of the ordinary. I decide to leave the window open for a bit while I work. About 20 minutes later a new message comes in. I wait until the notification goes away so that I know she's read it and click the Messages link again. I immediately recognize who is messaging her...

Some back-story... My wife was previously married. Over the years I have uncovered, and I use the word *uncovered* because my wife doesn't communicate stuff like this with me, that she had cheated on her Ex husband a while before she initiated the divorce. I understand that the marriage had already soured and was in its final hours, but she still found another guy and cheated with him before ending the prior relationship. Its never resonated well with me, especially after the EA of 2013...

And, you've probably guessed it, but the guy she is currently talking to is the SAME guy that she cheated on her Ex husband with and then lived with over a year afterwards. (Note: this is not the same guy as the EA of 2013, but worse.) The messages are innocent enough, but I can tell that my wife is kind of driving the conversation. Messaging him more often with a lot of exclamation points and praise. I also notice that she has changed setting on the account to obscure the message activity. No push notification or popups. Muted, etc... A couple more messages go back and forth and I also notice that she is deleting the messages afterwards...

So, in summary (*TLDR*.) Wife has a history of cheating. Wife had an EA in 2013 that damaged our marriage. Just as it feels like trust has been reestablished on my part over a year later, she starts chatting with an Ex boyfriend that she cheated with previously. This shatters guidelines that we both talked about and agreed on after her EA.

I don't think I can go back to the not-trusting phase. No Man should feel like he MUST constantly check-up on his wife. I can't imagine how a Marriage like that can go-on indefinitely. Her motives might be innocent enough, but the fact that she changed her account password and is deleting new messages means she knows what she is doing is WRONG.

Could this be the last straw... If I confront her, she knows I'm snooping. Even if its justified, it will lead to a fight and she'll go more incognito. Might even push her more in that direction. I'm thinking I might just start the 180 and start taking steps towards preparing for divorce. Continue to casually monitor if/when I can for hints of escalation. Either way, I don't think I can go through another year of not trusting....

Thoughts...? Advice...? Other options...?


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

She is a serial cheater... cut your losses. I didn't see if you mentioned any children, so I am assuming that there are none? Did you explicitly ask for NC between the two of them? Why did you allow her to continue to have Facebook while you were knee deep in trust re-building? These things are all R 101.

If that is indeed the case, consider yourself lucky in letting him have her cheating a$$.... again. (Because it has worked so well between them in the past?)

I could not do the snooping, not trusting, etc. thing either -- it is a big part of why I could never R.


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## Todi (Aug 5, 2013)

We do have 2 children, which makes all the decisions harder. If we didn't have them, the EA would have been enough to send me packing over a year ago.

I didn't explicitly ask for NC between the two of them, but I think he is the most obvious person the guideline could have pertained to.

I think I'd rather have her using the Facebook account I know, instead of potentially creating a secret one. Make her delete her account would just make it harder for me have transparency IMO.

Cutting my losses would be simple if it wasn't for the kids and ALL the good things we seem to have going for us. Unfortunately, I think I agree with you though. I can't do 2013 over again.


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

Pepper123 said:


> She is a serial cheater... cut your losses. I didn't see if you mentioned any children, so I am assuming that there are none? Did you explicitly ask for NC between the two of them? Why did you allow her to continue to have Facebook while you were knee deep in trust re-building? These things are all R 101.
> 
> If that is indeed the case, consider yourself lucky in letting him have her cheating a$$.... again. (Because it has worked so well between them in the past?)
> 
> I could not do the snooping, not trusting, etc. thing either -- it is a big part of why I could never R.


I'm still seeing if R with my WW is possible but sitting here, if I knew she would do to me what she has done to you now, I would be packing her stuff.

For me, I think most WW's who have an EA but then R properly deserve one chance to get their partner back. It's a lesson that should be learnt and learnt well. It sounds like that one chance that you have gifted her has been stomped on and then burnt.


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## Hemingway (Jul 19, 2013)

Todi said:


> We do have 2 children, which makes all the decisions harder. If we didn't have them, the EA would have been enough to send me packing over a year ago.
> 
> I didn't explicitly ask for NC between the two of them, but I think he is the most obvious person the guideline could have pertained to.
> 
> ...


I totally agree. Kids change the picture alltogether.

You definitely must start 180. But you must also set boundaries for her and ask to initiate NC. Maybe there were no consequences for the earlier EA and she is emboldened.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

She is a serial cheater. Sorry that you are in this place but you have to play hardball with your wife. Don't try to save your marriage, make her save it! 

This is as good as breaking NC with a physical affair partner. She is not investing in your marriage. She is investing in the destruction of your family by being led around by her crotch.

You and your kids deserve more than to be ruled by the whims of your WW crotch.

The 180 sounds like a good start and file for divorce. Keep it secret and once the papers are drawn up, have her served in front of witnesses if possible. I have a feeling you might have rug swept her previous affair. She needs to be exposed and the slap of a pending divorce could be a good wake up call.

She may learn her lesson and change, but unless you are willing to expose, expose, expose, she is still having her fun screwing you and your kids over.

It will be harder for her to fool herself when her crappy behavior is brought to light.

Best wishes.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Sledge 

Hammer


Unfortunately the only way in this - no other options 
Trying to 'nice her ' out of it will just bring you further misery 

Doesn't feel good imo 

You're not asking her to change something that is a fad or a passing phase , she's clearly geared up for this kind of stuff - from the past and implementing it all now as well so sadly I can't be optimistic for you


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Todi said:


> My wife of 8 years had an EA a little over a year ago. Her EA was with an ex boyfriend from her teen years and it almost destroyed our marriage. The EA was fully realized by me just as it started to cross the line, so I'll never know how far it would have gone. Either way, it destroyed the pure trust I had in my wife and has made me second guess her ever since.
> 
> Thoughts...? Advice...? Other options...?


Todi,

I'm all for a* "2nd Chance". *

But, that's it. I gave my wife one when caught in a series of PA... but that was it... one chance. She knows that. If she shows the slightest glimpse of any kind of affair ever again, I am gone. No talking, no emotion, just gone.

Take count, your wife cheated on her former, cheated on you prior, and has continued to the present.

Chances?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Its very difficult for people who serially cheat to change. They have short attention spans and are constantly looking for the high of a new partner. This is your wife, so I think your options really are to either accept that she does this and not worry about it, watch her like a hawk, or end the marriage. Sorry, I know they're all unattractive options.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

gather intel for the divorce, get busy prepping the finances etc, for the divorce proceedings.

You will need to do this all covertly as she has not only betrayed you once with an EA but is on the same track as her previous marriage with the same OM from that period.

Let her alone and keep monitoring and logging storing and saving your evidence, if you have evidence from the previous EA then get that stored and logged too as extra evidence for the divorce.

I am neither pro or anti divorce, I am looking for the best possible outcome for you!!!

You have children together, she is not thinking about you nor the kids whilst she is messaging the OM.

This is going to get real ugly, real quick so get ready for the fall out!!!!

Protect your assets and your sanity.

180, 180, 180.

Rooting for ya man!!!


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## C3156 (Jun 13, 2012)

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice.... you know what I am saying.

First of all, you are not snooping, you said it yourself, full transparency. Don't feel bad for finding a potential affair, it is better to know than wonder.

I would not confront her at all (why let the cat out of the bag?). I would monitor the messages and make copies of all of them, especially if they start to point towards and EA or PA. They may not be admissible in court, but you can use as leverage.

I know this hurts as my ex had a couple of EA's during our marriage too. Note I said my ex. At this point you are dealing with someone who is not invested in your marriage, I am not sure why you would consider staying with them. Sooner or later, your marriage is going to dissolve.

You have the advantage now, I would use it. Yes it sucks to divorce with kids, but there are such things as a necessary evil. Would you rather your kids see a couple of separate parents that are happy with themselves or a couple of parents living together miserably?

I would do a couple of things, use the 180 and also start to prepare for divorce.

- Try to keep your head straight and level. It will be tough but take the higher road when you can.

- Start to take care of yourself, if you are not already. Workout, seek counseling, and try to get enough sleep.

- Be the best Dad you can for your kids. Start to keep a journal and document your time with them.

- Learn your rights by studying your state statutes on divorce. There is no reason that you will not be able to spend at least 50% of your time with your kids (I do). If you have the time, study some case history in your area to see what factors affect divorce cases. You want to be ahead in this area so you know what to expect.

- Look through the divorce section and search for some divorce forums related to Dad's/men divorcing. Lots of good information. Develop a plan for what you want out of a divorce and a strategy to achieve your plan.

- Once you have some knowledge, start to interview lawyers in the event you need to retain one. A lot will give you a free consult.

- Open separate bank account at a separate bank for your money. When you are ready to drop the bomb, make sure that you already have your direct deposit switched and have a portion of your savings moved.

- Make copies of all important documents (Dr records, birth certificates, SSN cards, etc.) and store them in a safe location.


Divorce is scary, but having done it, I can tell you in time it will be okay. All that is happening now is you losing trust and building resentment towards your wife. I recommend moving on with your life. It is hard, emotional, and tiring. But now that it has been a couple of years, I realize that divorce was the best thing to happen to me.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Todi said:


> After the EA, we setup some simple guidelines when dealing with people of the opposite sex... Most of all, we both agreed not to have contact with exes from our past.
> 
> the guy she is currently talking to is the SAME guy that she cheated on her Ex husband with and then lived with over a year afterwards.
> 
> ...


I think you made your case Dawg. After getting caught, she's back to her old tricks. She's not only doing WRONG as you put it. She is intentionally attempting to deceive you. I think you know there ain't no straightening this gal out. Whatever she's been taking makes her feel like a new man.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Where is she chatting him ?

Her mobile or home PC ?

If it is a PC, i suggest that you install a keylogger on it.

if possible , force her to use the home PC(damaged phone)


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Todi,

My assumption is that you drew a line in the sand with her about transparency and messaging other men, before this.

So you have to ask yourself a question. Since she crossed that line, will you end your marriage because of it? If the answer is no, or you're not sure, then I wouldn't confront right now. To do so, and not follow through with divorce; is erasing that line in the sand.

I would continue to monitor her for at least 2 to 3 weeks, maybe longer, if this continues to progress. If you're satisfied this isn't going anywhere, then you confront. But this time, give her the consequence of understanding what it's like to loose her husband for crossing that line that she agreed to. Start the divorce process and gauge her remorse before making a final decision.

If this does progress to an EA or PA; same advice as above; except this time, you keep going with the D and don't look back.


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

She is a serial cheater. There is something broken inside of her you can not fix. Trying to fix this will only destroy you and your kids. You are right divorcing is hard when kids are involved. Its not impossible to leave and build a life for your kids. I think you are running into the same issue I had. I hated constantly checking up on my xW. I felt serious resentment that I even had to do it. I agree with the others. I would check into divorce. I would start 180 and work my way in that direction. It does not sound like she is in love with you anymore and the sooner you prepare your self the better you and your kids will be. 

Clay


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## Todi (Aug 5, 2013)

Thanks for all the responses. Since I didn't hear many other option, I think I've come to the same realization as the rest of you. I appreciate the advice.


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

Todi said:


> Since I didn't hear many other option, I think I've come to the same realization as the rest of you.


Sorry but if you were here hoping we would say that she was just going to be catching up on old times and that there was nothing to worry about, you are sorely hoping to bridge a gap too far.

This is basically how it went with her, she was married, got tangled up with this dude, her H found out but she was too wrapped up and in the fog with him to feel anything of the damage she was doing, so, divorce H, move in with OM all hunky dory for a year but it falls apart, they split but she harbors feelings for him she never had for anyone else, she moves on but still has the feelings inside, has an EA last year with a new OM, feelings all confused like she's missing out, settles back to R with you as "HE" wasn't around, year goes by of you checking up on her and virtually stopped, she knows the heat is off, she knew you were moving past the need to check on her and she helped you and encouraged you to stop checking and lulled you into the false sense of security where you made a new years resolution to stop checking, once she was confident you were off the case, she searched him out and tried to block you out of the FB acc with an unknown password whereby she can easily have explained it away that you made a mistake and that there must be a problem with the way you typed it in, you would have bought it as she would have gone underground as suspicions aroused and the password would have been changed back so you could verify there and then and she would be thinking about how close a shave that was and found herself new means of getting in deeper with him.

Just my version.

He is like Kryptonite to her, she has a very real and very deep attraction to him and it really goes to show in the fact that even after getting caught in an EA she is getting tangled up with the same guy who she cheated on her first H with.

How you holding up? You shocked or surprised?


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## Todi (Aug 5, 2013)

Your version is pretty much how I see it too.

*Numb* would be the proper description of how I'm feeling. Which is good actually. A year ago I was all full of rage and nerves. Being numb should be good for moving forwards with 180 and D.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

she cheated
she got caught
she stopped
things cooled down
she starts cheating again

this is the rest of your life, over and over, if you stay with her
she will eventually get smarter and you wont catch her again, but she wont stop, not for long


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

You sound extremely smart. In fact, all the things you noticed via facebook: her hanging her settings so no notifications pop up (making sure her phone won't buzz in front of you), her changing password, her deleting messages, shows for a fact she knows she is breaking your boundaries. She doesn't care. She is selfish and the urges hit her, and she reacts. An absolute serial cheater. There is no reason for a loyal, faithful woman to EVER message an ex. There are no "innocent" reasons and you know better. 


If you decide to stay with her, just know, if you ever go on a trip, let your guard down, or she has an opportunity, she will cheat. Too many times man. I know you love your kids, but they are better off with a happy dad that isn't paranoid or pretending to be his wife's father by checking up to make sure her bedroom windows are locked so she doesn't sneak out tonight. Your wife has become your oldest child.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Todi said:


> I didn't explicitly ask for NC between the two of them, but I think he is the most obvious person the guideline could have pertained to.


It was unnecessary, she knows well this man is banned, hence...


Todi said:


> I also notice that she has changed setting on the account to obscure the message activity. No push notification or popups. Muted, etc... A couple more messages go back and forth and I als...


She's doing it willingly, with the full acknowledge what it would happen is she's caught. She just waited to see you relaxed with the snooping. There's no way she can argue innocence here. She just don't care anough.

I don't think anything beyond serving her and implementing a hard core 180 can, maybe, get her attention.

Play stupid and monitor this while you talk to the lawyer.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Todi said:


> Your version is pretty much how I see it too.
> 
> *Numb* would be the proper description of how I'm feeling. Which is good actually. A year ago I was all full of rage and nerves. Being numb should be good for moving forwards with 180 and D.


I feel and sense your despair.

Thing is Tod you cannot 'improve' these kind of people 
With all the love in the world they just don't 'get it'. They are not at their core a 'one person' person 

They will argue they are but it is a blind spot - they are broken cannot see it and therefore cannot change 

If you see the problem you fix it 

If you don't get as far as seeing it accepting it - 

then ......

Took me the best part of 7/8 years of a 15 yr marriage to understand this for myself a lot of wasted years


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Todi said:


> Your version is pretty much how I see it too.
> 
> *Numb* would be the proper description of how I'm feeling. Which is good actually. A year ago I was all full of rage and nerves. Being numb should be good for moving forwards with 180 and D.


A couple of years ago, shortly after discovering my wife's EA's, I was hanging out w/ a buddy and his dad (I'd actually left the house to stay w/ my buddy and his wife for a few days, and this was either the evening of D-Day #2 or the day after) and, as I was sitting there talking w/ them, I was going over everything in my mind. Everything that I'd read. Everything that she'd said to them. Everything that I'd discovered and wished that I hadn't. And right there, just as we were talking, a switch went off in my head. In that moment, I went completely emotionally numb, and I felt nothing at all but peace. It was very calming but honestly it scared the sh*t out of me. I figured that I was just emotionally exhausted and really needed some rest. Sure enough, that was it; when I woke up the next morning, I was all devastation, rage, and tears all over again. Still, I'll remember that "numb" feeling for the rest of my life, and I pray that I never again have to endure anything that may evoke that feeling again.

As far as your sitch... Yeah, she's a serial. Confront and file. If you're in a fault state then maybe dig a bit more to see what you can get. Otherwise just get out as quickly and painlessly as you can.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Todi said:


> We do have 2 children, which makes all the decisions harder. If we didn't have them, the EA would have been enough to send me packing over a year ago.
> 
> I didn't explicitly ask for NC between the two of them, but I think he is the most obvious person the guideline could have pertained to.
> 
> ...


First mistake is to make a resolution not to snoop, especially with her history. The conversation should have been, "Honey I love you, but there will never be anything hidden ever again in this marriage". Transparency means just that. All accounts, yours and hers are open and can be checked at any time. Nothing hiden, nothing deleted.

I would not confront yet, but your feeling that she will get mad because you snooped is just B.S. This is your marriage and she has a history of cheating. 

When you can save those messages between them.

Keylogger for starters.

Keep this persepctive in mind. Your wife is cheating again. She is not an innocent person in this and by what you are describing she is encouraging this.

When you do confront, make sure you have the b*lls to carry through with it.

A soft confrontation without consequences rarely if ever works. 

This is very easy for your wife. She has done this countless times and apparently you are not enough for her. This is not your fault. But folks like your wife have needs that are not being met. No one can meet all the needs of their spouse and frankly we have to suck that up. When your wife is looking elsewhere to get those needs met, that is just plain wrong.

If this was a one time deal my advice would be different. But, your wife has a history of this crap and I would say that it is time to end this marriage.

Frankly I would not even give her the benefit of a discussion. I would lawyer up, once I felt I had all the information I needed, I would file for divorce.


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## WolverineFan (Nov 26, 2013)

The purpose of transparency and establishing boundaries is to have a healthy growing marriage relationship. It is not to seek out a transgression so as to find a reason to end it. Yes, there needs to be consequences for violations of trust, and there are times when separation and divorce become necessary. I am sorry for the heartache you have experienced with the EA. Have you spoken with a counselor who respects marriage about this recent discovery yet? If boundaries have been clearly established and transgressions have been discovered, what possible benefit is there from waiting to deal with it?


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## BWBill (Jan 30, 2013)

_I understand that the marriage had already soured and was in its final hours, ......_

And you got this information from whom? More likely she cheated and broke up her marriage.

Why didn't she end up with her affair partner?


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Todi said:


> If I confront her, she knows I'm snooping. Even if its justified, it will lead to a fight and she'll go more incognito.


 Since you both agreed to full transpancy after the last time that you caught her cheating, snooping is not only justified, but allowed without complaint or arguing. The fact that you know that you will get an argument from her, tells me that she had something to do with manipulating you into making a New Years resolution to trust her and not check up on her. Since, a New Years resolution is something that people make to themselves, you changing your mind about it has nothing to do with her, and she is still bound by the complete transpancy clause that she promised in order to keep you in the marriage after she cheated.

Cheaters logic says that you must be bound by rules of fair conduct as determined solely by them, while they are not even bound by rules specifically agreed to by them. Because cheaters are willing to argue anything to avoid addressing the real issue of cheating, they often win by default. Either the cheated on spouse does not bring it up to avoid the sure fight, or if they do bring it up they are sucked into arguing the false rules of the cheater while not being allowed to address the real issue of them cheating. The only way to handle this is to bring it up and get really angry if they try to take it off topic. State that you will only argue the real issue of them cheating and not the false issue of snooping, and that if she does not understand that cheating trumps everything else, that could explain why she is so comfortable being a cheater.


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

Todi said:


> Your version is pretty much how I see it too.
> 
> *Numb* would be the proper description of how I'm feeling. Which is good actually. A year ago I was all full of rage and nerves. Being numb should be good for moving forwards with 180 and D.


Numb is an interesting place to be, it is like a calming inner peace, it stops the hurt and pain for now, but it comes back again I'm sorry to say.

This probably sounds crappy but better to know now than find out in a couple years time that the bout of flu is in fact HIV where she is phucking some low life for kicks in the parking lot.

Just stay strong and get your s4!t straightened out ASAP!!!!

You can be devastated in a couple months after you've filed, For now, you need to be robocop and get the evidence you need for D!!!

Hit the weights, jog(run if in grizzly country as they mostly go for joggers ) start swimming and get to grips with who you are again, your girls are gonna need their dad now that mommy has phucked up!!!

At all costs, keep this on the QT and act as though you are the happiest guy alive, you should actually feel like that already as you are now in the process of saving yourself a whole truck load of agony by 180ing and working on you.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I think you may have one other option. Look up the 180. Follow it to the letter. Then keep an eye on her messages. When she gets around to asking what's wrong tell her this. I have been thinking and I don't think you are happy being married to me. Don't you think you would like to be single again and then you could date all kinds of other men.

Just don't hint that you know anything. Then see what she does with facebook.


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