# More power but no responsibility



## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

I think RandomDude made an excellent point in the discussion about the changing social expectations. 

I see a lot of people, both male and female, who abuse their power and do not want to accept responsibility OR share responsibility. 

I have talked to women who think that having power somehow means THEY get to be "the boss." Then they are angry when the man in their life opts out. 

I have seen men who love the way women who feel more empowered are willing to reclaim their sexuality as part of that empowerment. But they are angry when women with more open attitudes toward their sexuality want to have an equal say in the relationship. 

In both cases, there are individuals who want to eat their cake and have it too. 

Both people in a relationship need to accept and share responsibility. There is no equality if that isn't true. 

When a woman complains about a partner being a workaholic, for example, I tend to wonder what is she willing to give up for more time with her husband? Will she willingly move to a smaller house, have fewer kids, or get a job? (This isn't meant as a slur at anyone, because sometimes the woman just hasn't considered the problem as one of responsibility). If she talks about this with her partner and he wants the same amount of money to spend, then she needs to get a job--unless, to her, material things are much less significant and she'd prefer they have significantly more time together with a more modest lifestyle. And if he wants the material stuff and she wants the time? Maybe compromise is possible-X number of years and he will then cut back, for example. 

This is just one example that came to mind, but I think RD made a good point and I don't blame anyone for getting ticked off when their partner wants it both ways.


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## JMak00 (Jul 24, 2010)

I've never understood this concept of marriage as a context for possession and exercise of power. Just don't get it. Maybe I'm lucky and my spouse and I simply recognize what is important to us individually and fit that in with what's important as a couple whether it's work, riasing the kids, money, family, etc.

But so many folks seem entangled in marriage being a zero-sum game where one's happiness is necessarily at the expense of the other. Weird.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

JMak00 said:


> I've never understood this concept of marriage as a context for possession and exercise of power. Just don't get it. Maybe I'm lucky and my spouse and I simply recognize what is important to us individually and fit that in with what's important as a couple whether it's work, riasing the kids, money, family, etc.
> 
> But so many folks seem entangled in marriage being a zero-sum game where one's happiness is necessarily at the expense of the other. Weird.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's because most people have baggage. They are determined that "something" won't be "done to them again". They live in fear of having another hurt them in the same way.

So, they take pre-emptive action.

That takes the form of a power play.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Conrad said:


> It's because most people have baggage. They are determined that "something" won't be "done to them again". They live in fear of having another hurt them in the same way.
> 
> So, they take pre-emptive action.
> 
> That takes the form of a power play.


That makes a lot of sense. It (marital or relationship conflict) often seems like a chicken-and-egg situation, spiraling out of control .


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

sisters359 said:


> I think RandomDude made an excellent point in the discussion about the changing social expectations.
> 
> I see a lot of people, both male and female, who abuse their power and do not want to accept responsibility OR share responsibility.
> 
> ...


You're good ...

This was an utterly huge issue, and burden in my marriage. I couldn't win. She couldn't lose.

To be told the following:
"I wish you were around more.", "I don't want you to have to travel." and then, "I wish we had a bigger house." and "I don't want to get a job. I want to be with the kids." 

is baffling and infuriating. Even more baffling is that I kept trying to pull it off.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

You nice guy, you.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

sisters359 said:


> That makes a lot of sense. It (marital or relationship conflict) often seems like a chicken-and-egg situation, spiraling out of control .


There's plenty more where that came from if certain people would cease and desist from writing obfuscatory treatises designed to conceal real human motive power.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

sisters359 said:


> In both cases, there are individuals who want to eat their cake and have it too.
> 
> Both people in a relationship need to accept and share responsibility. There is no equality if that isn't true.


I completely agree. Freedom and responsibility are inexorably linked. Without the link, neither the freedom nor the responsibility can be successful.



> When a woman complains about a partner being a workaholic, for example, I tend to wonder what is she willing to give up for more time with her husband? Will she willingly move to a smaller house, have fewer kids, or get a job? (This isn't meant as a slur at anyone, because sometimes the woman just hasn't considered the problem as one of responsibility).


I would go one step further. I would go so far as to say whatever the nature of the marital problem, BOTH genders tend to look to the fault of the other, deferring the responsibility from themselves for how they could solve the problem.




> This is just one example that came to mind, but I think RD made a good point and I don't blame anyone for getting ticked off when their partner wants it both ways.


There are plenty of dysfunctional relationships in the world. I wish it weren't so, but there it is.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

JMak00 said:


> I've never understood this concept of marriage as a context for possession and exercise of power.


:iagree:


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Deejo said:


> You're good ...
> 
> This was an utterly huge issue, and burden in my marriage. I couldn't win. She couldn't lose.
> 
> ...


My sister in law was like that. Thank goodness she is gone.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Deejo,
Time
Money
Love

Those are the 3 things I pay attention to. I think when you look at any relationship that way it can be very helpful. Your wife wanted/needed you to be at full throttle on all 3 and from the sound of it - she was 1 for 3 with you. And I seriously question whether your W's real issue about work was "time with the kids" - she could have done a lot more work while they were in school. It sounded like your W's REAL issue was she wanted to do what she wanted to do - full stop. And she wanted YOU to facilitate her life. 

I loved my W enough to agree to a third child when I wanted to stop at the 2 kids we already had. I also firmly pointed out that good as she was in not spending money, she wanted to be a stay at home mom and that if 3 kids was not going to be enough we needed to part ways before having a third. Meaning if she could not happily stop at 3, we needed to end the marriage with the two we already had. I wasn't angry when we talked about it - just determined. 

I generally don't see marriage as a zero sum game but in this case we needed to see if there was a compromise we both could live with. Luckily there was. 




Deejo said:


> You're good ...
> 
> This was an utterly huge issue, and burden in my marriage. I couldn't win. She couldn't lose.
> 
> ...


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

> I have talked to women who think that having power somehow means THEY get to be "the boss." Then they are angry when the man in their life opts out.


I agree with this 100%. Most of the women I know think that if they are submissive, it means that their husband gets to "boss them around" but in reality nothing is further from the truth. In reality if you are submissive it's not about "power" and "being the boss" -- it protects a woman from having to shoulder responsibility that isn't hers. We're in a day-and-age when we're expected to "bring home the bacon and fry it up in a pan" taking all the power also means all the responsibility AND means that our partner doesn't need to "be there" so he checks out. No wonder! 

I personally choose returning to submission where my Dear Hubby and I have chosen together "This is my responsibility...this is your responsibility...and this stuff we do together!"




> When a woman complains about a partner being a workaholic, for example, I tend to wonder what is she willing to give up for more time with her husband? Will she willingly move to a smaller house, have fewer kids, or get a job? (This isn't meant as a slur at anyone, because sometimes the woman just hasn't considered the problem as one of responsibility). If she talks about this with her partner and he wants the same amount of money to spend, then she needs to get a job--unless, to her, material things are much less significant and she'd prefer they have significantly more time together with a more modest lifestyle. And if he wants the material stuff and she wants the time? Maybe compromise is possible-X number of years and he will then cut back, for example.


Ding-ding-ding on the nose! I do want to spend my time with my Dear Hubby and the cost of the "time" is that he doesn't focus 100% of his energy on climbing that corporate ladder. We live with lower disposable income because being together is important to us...and yep I take ownership of that choice and so does he. So you have hit it on the head--no man can "be home more" and "earn more" and "be more romantic" all at the same time any more than any woman can bring home the bacon and fry it up in a pan! Something, somewhere along the line has to give. In Deejo's case, the marriage is what "gave."


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Affaircare said:


> I agree with this 100%. Most of the women I know think that if they are submissive, it means that their husband gets to "boss them around" but in reality nothing is further from the truth. In reality if you are submissive it's not about "power" and "being the boss" -- it protects a woman from having to shoulder responsibility that isn't hers. We're in a day-and-age when we're expected to "bring home the bacon and fry it up in a pan" taking all the power also means all the responsibility AND means that our partner doesn't need to "be there" so he checks out. No wonder! ."


I am submissive in my relationship and sexually - I have a job that requires me to be assertive and I have male subordinates. When I walk into my house I relax into my feminie role I trust my husband to be the head of the household and to make decisions for us. I love to cook and love to take care of my husband. My husband and I have had problems with what submissive means. It does not mean that I do all the work in the house like a sevent, he understands that now. I believe that when a women is submissive she has to be strong and able to set limits.sounds like a paradox but submission is a choice not a necessity. 

It is natural for me, I like being dominated it makes me feel safe and relaxed. I have very definite boundaries and I am not a doormat. I am just soft and compliant when at home i like to get my nails and hair done wear high heals, clothes that show off my figure. my husband respects me, he is dominant and likes to take care of me and our kids. But if anything goes array, I can switch into the take charge role- I don't like it but I can do it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

This is really good Catherine. And what I mean by that is you know yourself well and know your "resting state". This is how you are when everything is going along well and you feel safe. But as you have correctly stated being submissive does not mean that you have no boundaries. And clearly you have learned to assert yourself and take charge when needed. 

As for the idea of someone being more dominant, and the other being more subservient that can work perfectly well provided the more dominant partner carries their fair share of the workload.

I think you already know this but - personally - I have found that I need to pay attention. The more aggressive partner (in this case my W) can gradually become very insensitive to the less aggressive partners needs. I find that asserting myself in a firm - though sometimes humorous - manner on a regular basis tends to keep the marriage in healthy balance.





Catherine602 said:


> I am submissive in my relationship and sexually - I have a job that requires me to be assertive and I have male subordinates. When I walk into my house I relax into my feminie role I trust my husband to be the head of the household and to make decisions for us. I love to cook and love to take care of my husband. My husband and I have had problems with what submissive means. It does not mean that I do all the work in the house like a sevent, he understands that now. I believe that when a women is submissive she has to be strong and able to set limits.sounds like a paradox but submission is a choice not a necessity.
> 
> It is natural for me, I like being dominated it makes me feel safe and relaxed. I have very definite boundaries and I am not a doormat. I am just soft and compliant when at home i like to get my nails and hair done wear high heals, clothes that show off my figure. my husband respects me, he is dominant and likes to take care of me and our kids. But if anything goes array, I can switch into the take charge role- I don't like it but I can do it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Hey hey, this thread has my name on it (literally!) :smthumbup:

Guess I'm not as young and stupid as I thought! But someone better pop my bubble before I get a bighead :rofl:

I like both my feet on the ground anyway heh


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> I am submissive in my relationship and sexually - I have a job that requires me to be assertive and I have male subordinates. When I walk into my house I relax into my feminie role I trust my husband to be the head of the household and to make decisions for us. I love to cook and love to take care of my husband. My husband and I have had problems with what submissive means. It does not mean that I do all the work in the house like a sevent, he understands that now. I believe that when a women is submissive she has to be strong and able to set limits.sounds like a paradox but submission is a choice not a necessity.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



You mean your dominant husband doesn't abuse you and your relationship is not dysfunctional? Interesting to say the least. I mean who knew that a man can be dominant and have their family's best interest at heart. Then you tell us that you were able to get this dominant man to listen to your thoughts on how the work gets divided and he's adjusting to meet your needs. Amazing. Woah, Woah.... I just read that a submissive woman has to be strong? Can't be. I bet you'll tell me he doesn't gamble away the mortgage money and force you to use the kids college fund. Na, let me quit while I'm ahead.


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## reachingshore (Jun 10, 2010)

Tsk...

Probably what Catherine means is something along the line of this: to be able to be submissive a woman needs to know her _self _worth and be _self _confident aka she is content/happy/OK with this (_this _being submissive, NOT subservient).


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Affaircare said:


> I agree with this 100%. Most of the women I know think that if they are submissive, it means that their husband gets to "boss them around" but in reality nothing is further from the truth. In reality if you are submissive it's not about "power" and "being the boss" -- it protects a woman from having to shoulder responsibility that isn't hers.


Some of us like the CHOICE to take the responsibility and make it ours. I know I do. Who gets to say it isn't my responsibility? 



> We're in a day-and-age when we're expected to "bring home the bacon and fry it up in a pan" taking all the power also means all the responsibility AND means that our partner doesn't need to "be there" so he checks out. No wonder!


He does? Mine doesn't. He is "there" because he WANTS to be. Not because it is his responsibility.



> I personally choose returning to submission where my Dear Hubby and I have chosen together "This is my responsibility...this is your responsibility...and this stuff we do together!"


That is not submission. That is choice. Back in "the day" there was no choice. Dad simply did not take responsibility for the children. And Mom simply did not work. Now there is choice.


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