# Confusion!!



## mountaincountry (Jun 15, 2008)

Maybe someone can help me here. I have been in a rocky marriage for 14 years. I guess looking back it started out rocky and I was determined(too determined???) to make it work anyway. It would take 3 pages of writing to explain all the details so I will try to get to the main question I have at this point. 
I have read the 5 love languages, listened to marriage tapes, gone to counselors,etc... All seem to tell me that I should be romantic and loving toward my wife, shower her with affection, etc....After so many years of trying to make this work, you can bet I've tried all of that, and several times. She seems to hint to me that she needs this and isn't getting it.
Here is the kicker....... every time I do these things, she starts treating me worse and worse! Its like she thinks that now she has the upper hand and I must be desperate for her, so she can get away with treating me like [email protected]#!!!.
I've given up my dreams and moved to a place I don't like to try and save our marriage,thinking that she would be happier, and it only made things worse......... It was like she got a taste of what her threats(divorce,taking the kids etcc...) could make me give up, and she proceeded to start making more........leading up to the point of telling me she wanted to have her own life and not answer to me anymore.(She still wanted to live with me and have me pay for everything, just have no input into her life at all).
This phase was about 7 years ago. Now things have taken a different turn and she seems to want to start all over and go back. It's tough for me to forget all that stuff, especially since she still pulls the same tricks,lies,etc...
I hope I am not rambling too badly from the main thing I don't understand. Why does it get worse, the better I treat her????? I can't help but feel that I need someone who will appreciate the things I give her. I can't be loving and kind or I will be taken advantage of. I wish I could be. I want to be that way,I feel I have alot of love to give, But I don't trust her with my heart. Like I said before, I have many,many examples of reasons for this, but I think it would take a book to contain them all.
The strange thing is......she tells me she loves me constantly, but I find out through others that she is bad-mouthing me and telling lies to paint me in a negative light to her friends and family........Maybe she secretly wants out of this, but wants me to be the one to end it? So as not to look bad in front of her family,the church,etc...????


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## justean (May 28, 2008)

i have been with hubby 13 years. ups and downs all the time, who doesnt and you are no different. what i have learnt is we can change a certain degree of ourselves, but we end up going back to our old selves. 
so its just up to u how much u want to put up with it. 
as u have questions, then u need her to answer them. no one else can do that for you. 
you wont forget whats happened. no one does if it hurts. but the ? is can u forgive? 
is does seem like she likes control over u, but try and come to a compromise. b open and honest.
confront her as to what you know, she is saying about you. 
we all have issues with partners. so we do have a winge about eachother. 
your talking about your situation now and we r all strangers on this forum. its how we deal with life, we need to vent frustrations, but you need to chat with your missus.


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## Corina (May 15, 2008)

Hi MC & welcome to the the forum. 

I've seen other relationships in which the woman seems to be really spiteful and manipulative in order to get what she wants, and men who try and try and try and it's still not right ("if i have to ask for it, and then you give it to me, then i know it's not from the heart"..."if you really loved me then you would know what i want"...etc). 

Unfortunately I saw this with my parents for a while, and my brother and I both asked ourselves 'When is Dad going to develop a backbone and stop giving in to her games'. But it always takes two to tango...



mountaincountry said:


> ...
> All seem to tell me that I should be romantic and loving toward my wife, shower her with affection, etc....


Well, okay, but men/husbands have the exact same rights - you also deserve to get this back from her!



mountaincountry said:


> .... It was like she got a taste of what her threats(divorce,taking the kids etcc...) could make me give up, and she proceeded to start making more........leading up to the point of telling me she wanted to have her own life and not answer to me anymore...


Was she looking to see just how far she could really push it?



mountaincountry said:


> ...This phase was about 7 years ago.... I can't help but feel that I need someone who will appreciate the things I give her. I can't be loving and kind or I will be taken advantage of. I wish I could be. I want to be that way,I feel I have alot of love to give......she tells me she loves me constantly, but I find out through others that she is bad-mouthing me and telling lies to paint me in a negative light to her friends and family........Maybe she secretly wants out of this, but wants me to be the one to end it? So as not to look bad in front of her family,the church,etc...????


I think you may be on to something with your suspicion. If there's not enough trust, and obviously a serious lack of respect on her side, then maybe it's time to think about discussing both of your wishes and goals together. Bringing up the topic of separation might not be the worst idea. An open and honest conversation can only help. You have a right to have her know what your needs and wants are as well. And if she's not willing to at least listen and communicate with you, then make some decisions alone about what you need and what you can do to reach that.


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## mountaincountry (Jun 15, 2008)

I wish communication with her was as easy as it sounds.Anytime I have EVER brought up any issues such as these, it has only incurred her wrath. Sometimes to the point of violent actions.
Took me awhile, but I started to realize she is using her angry outbursts to control me. Not have to deal with the problems. She wants me to be afraid of what she might do. And it works.

I have always been a "nice guy", but it seems that this is the root of our problems. I think she knows that I am a nice guy and she can push me pretty far. I think I have a problem with self-esteem, but I am learning to become more confident and strong......slow process.
The more I learn about it, the more I realize that I need to put my foot down. I am just coming to terms with the fact that it may spell DIVORCE. But I guess I can't let that threat deprive me of my own rights.


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## mountaincountry (Jun 15, 2008)

Honest conversation is doubtful too. Last time a topic came up, she lied about it vehemently. I had on paper,proof that she was lying.Boy did she blow up then!! (Although I never actually showed her the proof, and I think she thought I was bluffing.) 
Then she called her mother up,had her mother tell me how honest she was,that she would never lie to me,,,blah,blah,blah..Then when I told her mother about the proof, she said, "Well, I would lie to you too, the way you treat her."
AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!

Obviously I am dealing with some diffficulties here. 
All of this was just swept under the rug,never any apologies,explanations,etc....partially because I just get tired of fighting about it. Talking with her about it is just about like the conversation with her mother went, pointless.


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## Corina (May 15, 2008)

Okay, I wasn't sure if you'd given any idea to separation/divorce yet. If this is a possibility for you, then getting out for a while could be the best thing. Part of me just wants to tell you "she's psycho man, get out of there while you still can". I guess that would be pretty unfair though, not knowing the entire background. I'd avoid talking to her mom though. Parents will almost always stick by their children (as it should be), and if she's already been playing her mom against you, then you've got no chance there.

If you want to work on the relationship, then she needs to want that too. If she doesn't want to talk, then give her an ultimatum. The two of you sit down and talk on Sunday at 5 (you could tell her, for example), or Sunday at 5.30 you'll be moving out until she is ready to talk. 
This is just an idea if you want to work on the relationship....more...after years and years of already trying.


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## mountaincountry (Jun 15, 2008)

I guess I've always felt like I had to defend myself when she's played her mom against me. If only it were just her mom!!! I somehow have to become strong enough to realize that I don't have to explain myself to any of them. They will believe what they want anyway. 
I know what I need to do, just trying to find the strength. Sounds kinda weakling(?) of me now that I read it.


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## Corina (May 15, 2008)

It doesn't sound like a weakling at all!!! Don't think that of yourself. Actually putting down your thoughts and feelings and taking an honest look at them is really difficult and requires a lot of strength.

*So* many people could benefit from doing exactly that. It's taking that step and saying 'out loud' "this is my situation, i'm not satisfied, this is why, and this is what i need'." Think where you and your wife might be today if you had both had the balls to be so honest years ago. Better late than never.

You are strong and you are showing yourself some respect now - good for you!


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

How she acts away from you might be a hint IF the people telling you such are completely honest. However it is not unusual for people to ry to srengthen their position even when the other person is their partner. They want others to empathesis with them and support them first. It is a flaw to be sure, but it doesn't mean that in her world she doesn't love you.

draconis


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## mountaincountry (Jun 15, 2008)

Well......... as an update...... I was finally able to bring up the subject with her through the wonders of text messaging.Seems to be the only way to communicate.( she is currently out of town and has been for 5 weeks...staying with her mother) Apparently she doesn't want to work on it anymore either, but she wants to stay together to avoid hurting the kids. She wants to keep everything as it is ( of course!) and wait till they get older. HMMMMM.....I don't want to hurt them either, I love my girls VERY MUCH!!!!! I am just not convinced that they are better off with us together. Part of me thinks that this is another way of controlling me also.......... I told her that if we did that she would have to get a better job and start helping pay the bills. She said no.
(this brings up another subject.......maybe best for another post?????could get lengthy)


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## LydiaMPerez (Jun 20, 2008)

wow! after reading all this - she sounds very controlling, and i am not sure by you guys staying together for the kids is a god idea- i have family members that have tried that and it doesn't seem to do the kids any good. You need to do what is best and healthy for you- and if you are a good father which i am sure you are- the separation between you and your wife will not change your actions towards your girls. The wife is a grown woman and im sure the courts will work something out. Just because she is your wife and maybe your ex-wife she is still a grown woman and not a princess- im sure she can work and take care of herself a little.....Good Luck!


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

mountaincountry said:


> Well......... as an update...... I was finally able to bring up the subject with her through the wonders of text messaging.Seems to be the only way to communicate.( she is currently out of town and has been for 5 weeks...staying with her mother) Apparently she doesn't want to work on it anymore either, but she wants to stay together to avoid hurting the kids. She wants to keep everything as it is ( of course!) and wait till they get older. HMMMMM.....I don't want to hurt them either, I love my girls VERY MUCH!!!!! I am just not convinced that they are better off with us together. Part of me thinks that this is another way of controlling me also.......... I told her that if we did that she would have to get a better job and start helping pay the bills. She said no.
> (this brings up another subject.......maybe best for another post?????could get lengthy)


Being in a relationship "just for the kids" never works as one suspects, and with tentions high and arguing a constant it hurts the kids and gives them a false sense of what marriage should be.

draconis


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## Corina (May 15, 2008)

it's amazing how much easier it is to be open and honest with another person, even would you love(d) and have spent part of your life with, when the communication is not face to fact (eg. texting, e-mailing).

At least you now have an idea of where she stands.

And I have to agree with the others - staying together for the kids isn't necessarily the best. Kids pick up on so much, and, depending on the age and how sensitive they are, they might even give themselves the blame for what is going on btw you and your wife.

As Lydia said, she's not a princess. You are both parents and have responsiblities. Where are the girls now? How have they been coping the last 5 (five?!) weeks without having both Mom and Dad together under one roof? Your wife seems to be coping fine...


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

So, what do you want?


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## carmaenforcer (Mar 7, 2008)

Hi *mountaincountry*
I have been dealing with similar attitudes from my Wife as well and I've heard the advice of treating them like queens but I don't agree with it and so have chosen to do things a little different. 
I've decided to play the a__hole role to balance things out, make things fair in our relationship and it seems to be working for me so far. Like you I got the threats of divorcing me and taking our child away, I dealt with that by countering with a threat of my own. 
I can't really elaborate on that much more here because it was kind of bad and better if I just leave it at that, but it worked.
Sure, my Wife was all disturbed by the nature of my threat, didn't have sex with me for like two months after that and finally told me that it was because of what I had threatened to do to her but I stuck to me guns. She said, "and don't try and say that you were just kidding" to which I answered "I wasn't kidding, you take my child I WILL ____ you!" Knowing the type of person I am and seeing the seriousness in my eyes helped her come to grips with the fact that threatening to leave me might not be a good idea.
I wouldn't recommend something that drastic in your case because you've already lost too much ground for her to take you serious and you will end up having to actually do it, follow through, or back down and loose more ground. 
What I would recommend to you to start smaller, take away everything that she takes for granted one at a time. Stop catering to her needs, stop caring and let it show, be cold and stand your ground.

If you doubt my theory, simply ask yourself, do you really expect a selfish person to learn the error of her ways by pandering to their needs? I call it conditioning, it's scary at first but very rewarding and it works.

I figured, what did I have to loose, worst case scenario she leaves, takes with her her bad attitude and ends up with someone that will not put up with her crap and regret.

Be careful if you do start to try and do what I have suggested, I am a very methodical person and run every possible scenario through my head before doing anything and even so everything could backfire on me, but like I said, what am I really risking when you think about it.

Good luck.


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## mountaincountry (Jun 15, 2008)

What do I want? I guess I need to take some time and evaluate that........... I want some peace in my life for sure, mid 40's and feel like I am getting too old to keep going thru this.....
In the past year I have decided to make some changes for myself, and try to do at least some things for me. I moved back to a place where I like living.......she didn't come at first,but then after 3 months came with me. We have lived here for almost a year........I felt like she would make my life hell for not doing it all her way,and I was right. There SEEMED to be a change in the dynamic of the relationship, as I started putting my foot down more and more, but i never trusted that she was really okay with things, though she tried to appear that way (to her family and church members???).
Now that she has gone back to stay with her family, it seems like the REAL person is back again. I always felt that when I started doing some things for myself,that it would only be a matter of time before she carried out her threats. But my own family and friends seem to think that she would never do that. I just think that she has everyone fooled.
I do feel that I need to NOT BACK DOWN this time, I have always let her threat of leaving(more the threat of not being with my girls)eventually scare me back into doing what was neccesary to "make it work". But the threat doesn't hold much power when I want out,does it?
I honestly think that this has gone too far, and I won't be able to get past this and still TRULY want to make it work. I have NO trust in her anymore. 
My problem is deciding how to handle the divorce/seperation....If I file here,I am told she will have to bring my kids back, and fight it all out here, this state will have jurisdiction(sp?). That kinda gives me the upper hand. I don't want her anywhere near me right now,but I miss my girls terribly, if I tell her to get back out here or I am going to file, I have to put up with more of her B.S.......
On the other hand I don't want to be forced to go back where she wants to be either. Don't know if the state will let her do that or not. If she does I won't get to see my kids nearly enough. But I can't for the life of me imagine her staying out here on her own. She doesn't have the skills to take care of herself financially as she has always relied on someone else to do that for her.It won't matter how much I give her in alimony and child support either, it will all be blown. Then I will still be the bad guy for "not supporting my family". Guess thats nothing new though.
I think what I want is to be able to live where I WANT, and to be able to see my girls on a regular basis. AND to get out of this thing, no more hope for making it work. I fear that I will still be forced to have contact with her thru seeing the girls and the manipulation will forever continue...........
In any case, getting all this down in writing has been a form of therapy for me. Its great to be able to say these things for once, not feeling guilty about bad-mouthing her because noone here knows her. Anyone in my circle always seems to have alterior motives, and I have to be very guarded in what I say.

Thanks for all the responses!!!!Keep it coming! I need the perspective.


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## carmaenforcer (Mar 7, 2008)

*mountaincountry*

I have been divorced once before but have two separate child supports in two counties with two different women and believe me when I tell you that it matters who asks for the divorce and who opens the child supports hearings.

I'm happy to hear you say,
"the threat doesn't hold much power when I want out,does it?"

That's where I was at the end of my last relationship of 10 years, 
I just didn't care anymore towards the end. No children from that union though so I lucked out in that respect.

I say live where you want, be near your girls if that's what you know you will need. Your ex can use the fact that you need to see your children to get to you but just focus on you and your children and try and block out the rest.

Best of luck and remember strike first, strike fast, strike hard and try and keep ahead of those that wish you harm.


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