# Break throughs, moving on and lots of questions



## Needinghelpnow (Aug 27, 2012)

I've posted a few things here and have gotten great advice and made some real progress.

Wife of nine years had an affair with an engaged co-worker. He relentlessly pursued her from her first day of work. We had been having some financial difficulties, the spark was certainly barely there if not gone, and in all honesty my wife suffers from some real issues with depression that in extreme cases make her incredibly self-destructive and even delusional. 

He enters and is showering her with attention, saying "all the right things". That being said after all of this, she discovered that he does this thing all the time even though he told her "I've never done this before, but you are just so special", despite knowing who he really was she still was emotionally attached to him after the PA ended. They were only "together" twice but the overall affair started emotionally, escalated to kissing for a week or so and then 3 days of a very sexual affair. This all happened when I was out of town for two weeks for work. She promised me to severe all contact but clear until a couple days ago she kept going back through emails and facebook (one of my previous posts chronicled this saga).

She has finally come to a point where I feel she has shown me true remorse and regret. We both want this marriage to work, we have three kids and a really great life together. Most of the stress and things that made our marriage loose our spark were mostly in her head. She was frustrated with herself and made me and our marriage the "bad guy" and did it to such lengths that she could justify doing what she did. But she sees that know, at least she says so, and I feel like we can put a lot of this behind us. 

But we've worked so hard to get here that I don't even know what should come next. I want to trust her, to feel like I don't have to "keep track of her", by looking at phone records, emails, all sorts of your typical BS spying things. She knows why I feel the need to do it but it makes her feel like she's living under a microscope, and I know the argument that if she really wants to make things better she should be willing to put up with anything, but in all honesty, If I say I want to rebuild trust in her, I should start showing her that I want to by actually trusting her. But I don't, she has promised me before that she would never contact him again and she betrayed me. This time does seem different than her past promises, it was very emotional and sincere and she seemed like the woman I married for the first time in a long time. Can I trust her?

I also still feel so much anger. I can't get the thoughts of the two of them of my head, the images just jump in their at the most random times and I'm overcome with all of those emotions. I know this is still new for me. Its only been 4 months since this happened and I know it could take years but has anyone found a coping practice that worked for them?

I also still feel the need to confront the OM. I've respected my wife's wishes and the encouragement of my therapist to not do this but I feel like he thinks he won and he got out of this without any real consequences. He almost lost his job over it but my wife quit so they gave him one more chance (since he's done this before with other co-workers I can't believe they did, but they did), His fiance almost found out, she found their emails too but he lied to her and she seemingly believed him, so he's had no real repercussions of this. His greatest worry was that I would come after him and I would love to bring his greatest worry to life. So I go from wanting a physical confrontation to even just an email, just to tell him what I need to say. I know that could blow up in my face though. All he would need to say is "oh yeah, well guess what, I &%##ed your wife" and I'd probably loose my mind entirely. Is it best to just let this go?

Lastly. I love my wife and I know that she is having emotions just as difficult as mine. Living with her own betrayal, anger at herself, anger at the OM, and missing the "illusion" she created. I get angry that she still has moments of missing the illusion though. If she knows it was a lie, that she became the worst version of herself and was ultimately manipulated and used, why can't she just let it go? But beyond all of that what can I do to help her get beyond these things? I know this is a process that goes on for a long while but if we do more of the right things now, instead of coming to them later, we could get back to living the life we were supposed to be leading. 

Sorry that this was such a long post. I'll thank you ahead of time for sticking with it. Thank you.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

You don't need to confront him personally, but you definitely need to expose it to his fiancé. He shouldn't just continue with his life like nothing happened after ruining yours. Expose it to all his coworkers too now that your wife has resigned. The man's a predator and could potentially ruin many more lives.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Needinghelpnow said:


> If I say I want to rebuild trust in her, I should start showing her that I want to by actually trusting her. But I don't, she has promised me before that she would never contact him again and she betrayed me. This time does seem different than her past promises, it was very emotional and sincere and she seemed like the woman I married for the first time in a long time. Can I trust her?


To put into simple human emotional perspective. 

It would be totally irrational for you to trust her ever again. 

You trusted her twice and twice she betrayed you twice 

There is nothing wrong with needing to continue to monitor her if that is what you need to heal. 

If she feels she's under a microscope, perhaps she has something to hide. 

My spouse already had all my passwords in a folder in case something happened to me. 

I never hid my net history, either. I had nothing to hide. 

As for confronting her affair partner. I do so relate. 

But don't do it, you might end up in jail. He is not worth it. 

Do tell his fiance though. She needs to know and deserves to know.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

to me there are at the bare minimum 4 requirements to properly heal and have a successful R

1) NC no contact at all- as stated in your other thread, she can never have any contact again with OM, none of this just friends malarkey. If he contacts her then she must ignore it and tell you of the attempt right away
2) Complete transparency- all passwords given up, access to phone is 100%, she informs you of her whereabouts etc. AND YES you should do your own monitoring thru spy methods like a VAR and keylogger and GPS. IT HELPS YOU HEAL AND REGAIN TRUST by seeing that her actions match her words, you will eventually ease off as you get comfortable and regain trust. Don't jump into blind trust again.
3) She demonstrates true remorse and takes 100% of the blame for the affair. No more trickle truth, blameshifting, gaslighting and she is very willing to do the things to help you heal, including to stop whining about being monitored closely
4) you spend 15 hours a week at least of one on one time together, no TV, no kids. You need to rebond



frankly, I am skeptical of your wife right now, I hope I am wrong


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

expose expose expose besides that I would see or check with an atty about this company and if it is in a area that affairs could be harmful to them or their rep ? alot of companies frown upon this type of activity by employees as it makes them look bad then sue the heck out of them


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

and yes, expose to the OM fiance, having him scramble helps get him out of the picture and if she finds out about it then you know she has contact


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## dblkman (Jul 14, 2010)

Almostrecovered said:


> frankly, I am skeptical of your wife right now, I hope I am wrong



i agree she shows no or very little remorse.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> and yes, expose to the OM fiance, having him scramble helps get him out of the picture and if she finds out about it then you know she has contact


:iagree:

And the fiance does have a right to know.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Fiancee needs to know.


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## frozen (Mar 5, 2012)

survivorwife said:


> :iagree:
> 
> And the fiance does have a right to know.


I believe if you could orchestrate a meeting between your wife and the OM fiancé and your wife shared what had occurred you would not only do a great honor to the fiancé by helping her to forgot rug sweeping, you and your wife may facilitate the healing by hearing her remorse over the affair to a 3rd party. Its not without some risks but what is needed is for her to keep confronting her behaviors by looking inward which she will be forced to do to the FIANCÉ.


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## Needinghelpnow (Aug 27, 2012)

survivorwife said:


> :iagree:
> 
> And the fiance does have a right to know.


I know that she has a right to know. I can't imagine she doesn't know. She has read everything that my wife sent him and in one of her last emails to him, she sent it to the address she knew she reads and made it clear what happened. 

That's what has been tough is that my wife knows who this man really is, knows he's a predator, knows he lied to her and manipulated her. She has said these things to him, said she wishes she had never done it, said straight out that they had sex in this email that I know the fiance had to see. The issue is that she went back to him through email after that. I saw the messages, they were "innocent", just how have you been, hows things at work, but also things like, "I'm still so angry" and he never really defends himself and that has actually helped because it is convincing her of the truth that she is so reluctant to admit to herself. 

Anyway..this is getting off topic of the fiance. If she has this information and is choosing to believe him over the overwhelming evidence, will she let herself believe anything?

Also, I fear what he would do. They never did anything at our house but he knows where we live. As much as I would like to hurt him and make him confront the truth in his own life. The fact is that this guy is a scumbag and a predator. I don't know what he may be capable of. I don't want to put my family in jeopardy. 

I think if I confronted him for a physical fight that would be that but taking it "home" may open up something dangerous. 

Beyond that since I already went beyond addressing this specific comment. My wife and I have talked that she needs to do a handwritten apology, expression of her shame and admittance of the reality of what happened and commit to our future. Also that she needs to express these things verbally so she can let it out, because I know she's knows it but she's letting it eat her up inside. I want her to do it right now and she says that she needs to do it in her own time. I know she is putting it off because once its out she can't hang on to anything and that's going to be difficult. She knows that what she did was terrible, she said that, she keeps saying that she is such a bad person, and I tell her she is a good person that did a bad thing, that I'm here for her and that actually upsets her more because she doesn't think she deserves my understanding and forgiveness. I just want her to let it out so I can truly forgive her and that she can forgive herself, but she's terrified of confronting it. 

Do I keep pushing her to do this or do I let her time to do this on her own? I sincerely believe that this is whats coming, but I also fear if she lets it build up she may do something stupid. She is incredibly self-destructive and has always dealt with difficult things by escape. I feel it will mean more if I let her do it on her own, but like I said I'm afraid of waiting...

What do I do?


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## pattimang (Aug 30, 2012)

You don't need to confront him personally


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

So, its still all about her huh ?? Never mind the hurt, pain, and mind movies you are having to deal with.

You have been here long enough to know all the things we will tell you. Go read HH thread again. PM him, ask him how he handled things.


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## Needinghelpnow (Aug 27, 2012)

OldWolf57 said:


> So, its still all about her huh ?? Never mind the hurt, pain, and mind movies you are having to deal with.
> 
> You have been here long enough to know all the things we will tell you. Go read HH thread again. PM him, ask him how he handled things.


I'm not going to respond to this situation being as selfish as she was. If I do that, then I'm no better. The thing is, yes she hurt me and made me go through the most painful time of my life, but I want to make this work, I love her, and if I'm serious about that, than I need to extend more courtesy to her than she did me. Because when this is all said and done, won't our marriage be stronger if I show her that?

Also, I'm still relatively new here, when you said check out HH posts, what exactly do you mean?

I know I can't let her drag this on and let her abuse me, but I feel like giving her some time is only right.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

The problem with allowing slack is that it is often used to choke you with it


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Needinghelpnow said:


> I'm not going to respond to this situation being as selfish as she was. If I do that, then I'm no better. The thing is, yes she hurt me and made me go through the most painful time of my life, but I want to make this work, I love her, and if I'm serious about that, than I need to extend more courtesy to her than she did me. Because when this is all said and done, won't our marriage be stronger if I show her that?
> 
> Also, I'm still relatively new here, when you said check out HH posts, what exactly do you mean?
> 
> I know I can't let her drag this on and let her abuse me, but I feel like giving her some time is only right.


No, this probably won't work. Or if it appears to have "worked", she will likely start up in another EA/PA down the road. What you need to do is show your wife that there are real consequences with what she did. She needs to own all of the pain, guilt and suffering that she is feeling. However, on top of that she has to tend to you 100% and help you cope with what she put you through. At this point in time you just gave her the leverage to sweep this under the rug. All she has to do now is to show faux remorse, call herself a terrible person a few more times and she'll have you wrapped around her finger because her White Knight - aka you - will come to her rescue and validate her. Most likely, she'll "recover" and you'll be so happy that she is your wife again that you'll forget all about her infidelity and just want to have life move on just like it was before. Big mistake if this is your approach.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Needinghelpnow said:


> I'm not going to respond to this situation being as selfish as she was. If I do that, then I'm no better. The thing is, yes she hurt me and made me go through the most painful time of my life, but I want to make this work, I love her, and if I'm serious about that, than I need to extend more courtesy to her than she did me. Because when this is all said and done, won't our marriage be stronger if I show her that?
> 
> Also, I'm still relatively new here, when you said check out HH posts, what exactly do you mean?
> 
> I know I can't let her drag this on and let her abuse me, but I feel like giving her some time is only right.


May I suggest you are dangerously close to rugsweeping the affair, and I believe that is a big part of what is holding you both back.

First a simple rule: do not directly confront the OM. Not because he might be dangerous, in fact you'll likely find he weasels out of any confrontation. Most OM do. You don't want to waste time confronting him because it is a waste of your time and won't produce any results. None and it will leave you mre frustrated. 

However you have let your wife protect him from you taking action to expose him. Your wife is still viewing him as the desirable guy who takes what he wants, and the guy who gets away with it. She's still attracted to that. You need to take back the alpha spot by standing up to him and imposing consequences.

1. Have your wife write a NC letter and give it to you to read and send.

2. Send the letter to him, but also contact the fiance yourself, tell her you are, and that your wife and him had an affair. Send her a send a copy of the NC.

3. Contact HR at the job. Tell them who you are, and everything you know about the affair. Tell them this guy is predator and you know he has done this before and while your wife has now quit you are extremely upset that this was permitted by the company at work, that a guy like him was permitted to do that kind of pursuit at work with company computers and company time.

4. Post him on cheaterville.com

All the above is you calling out consequences for his actions. It also shows to you, your wife, and him that you are not a passive victim who is going to just take it. 

5. Your wife doesn't get given trust, she earns it through actions. She lost it through actions, first in the affair and then by the continued contact, and even now through her continued protection of the OM, and her continued dwelling on him,

She must remain a completely open book for quite a while, at least until your gut says there is ZERO lingering desire or interst in her for him. This is going to be a year or more.

From what you write, there is still a desire and a loyalty in her for him. You must confront that and refuse to tolerate it. Your exposing him will help wth that big time. Your wife right now has you under control and it is giving her the freedom to continue her fantasy. Shes putting all her energy into her, and the fantasy still. You need to take away that control and show her that you aren't t rugsweeping AND that she must begin to put her attention on you and marriage or it will never recover.

And this like her earning your trust is done through actions and not just empty words. You start by exploding the OM without any warning or asking permission from your wife. You do it because you have decided this is how you will fight for your marriage and because you aren't going to let another man prey on your family.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Needinghelpnow said:


> I'm not going to respond to this situation being as selfish as she was. If I do that, then I'm no better. The thing is, yes she hurt me and made me go through the most painful time of my life, but I want to make this work, I love her, and if I'm serious about that, than I need to extend more courtesy to her than she did me. Because when this is all said and done, won't our marriage be stronger if I show her that?
> 
> Also, I'm still relatively new here, when you said check out HH posts, what exactly do you mean?
> 
> I know I can't let her drag this on and let her abuse me, but I feel like giving her some time is only right.



Why don't you share a bit more on what happened(the post is all over the place with bits of info here and there)? How was the relationship before the affair? 

I think you need a more neutral perspective on the situation. Like others mentioned, you are a rugsweeping at lot of aspects of the affair. You are scared to lose your family and marriage and you are ignoring a lot of factors that need to be addressed to have a true and successful reconciliation.

Here is a poster that had a false R because he rugswept many issues after his wife's affair

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/31959-false-recovery.html


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Btw, you seem to be operating under the impression that being strong, taking action, and holding people accountable for their actions is selfish and even non helpful to healing.

It's not. In fact it helps people heal and grow because it provides clear feedback on what is good and what is bad. A good boss at work makes it clear what is expected on the job, and will call out an employee who crosses the line. He won't cpscream at or belittle the employee, but he will talk to them and will hold the employee accountable. He will be prepared if needed to fire the employee. This creates a much better working environment and much more productive than the one where the boss lets everything slide and never desks with problems head on. 

You ave kids right? When you parent them you don't just let everything slide do you? Being a good partner is the same. Both partners get a better marriage when the hold their self and each other up to a high bar.

Your wife right now continues to not measure up, she is wallowing aimlessly and you are standing aside waiting and hoping that she will come around. That's very risky to do. She ended up in a PA by her choosing because she failed to choose the right path. By standing up to the affair aftermath and taking action you help show her the right path and that thie affair path has severe consequences for both her and the AP.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

recommending violence is terrible imo

do NOT get violent with OM, it is not worth going to jail over him


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## Dewy (Aug 29, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> to me there are at the bare minimum 4 requirements to properly heal and have a successful R
> 
> 1) NC no contact at all- as stated in your other thread, she can never have any contact again with OM, none of this just friends malarkey. If he contacts her then she must ignore it and tell you of the attempt right away
> 2) Complete transparency- all passwords given up, access to phone is 100%, she informs you of her whereabouts etc. AND YES you should do your own monitoring thru spy methods like a VAR and keylogger and GPS. IT HELPS YOU HEAL AND REGAIN TRUST by seeing that her actions match her words, you will eventually ease off as you get comfortable and regain trust. Don't jump into blind trust again.
> ...



I think that you are giving in to soon and setting your self up for more hurt in the future. she has not had to face true consequences for what she has done.

I could never go back


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

You seem like a real good man who wants to help his wife who is suffering. 

What bothers me, is that you are suffering so much yourself which is compounded by your wife's suffering & your worry that she will "self-destruct." What does that mean really? suicide? nervous breakdown?

So here we have 2 people drowning in the water w/o life jackets. If you try to "save" her, you both will drown.

Save yourself! I know you love her & want your marriage to work but she caused this hurricane. You cannot fix her. You can support her, love her but only she can fix herself.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

Needinghelpnow said:


> I know that she has a right to know. I can't imagine she doesn't know. She has read everything that my wife sent him and in one of her last emails to him, she sent it to the address she knew she reads and made it clear what happened.
> 
> That's what has been tough is that my wife knows who this man really is, knows he's a predator, knows he lied to her and manipulated her. She has said these things to him, said she wishes she had never done it, said straight out that they had sex in this email that I know the fiance had to see. The issue is that she went back to him through email after that. I saw the messages, they were "innocent", just how have you been, hows things at work, but also things like, "I'm still so angry" and he never really defends himself and that has actually helped because it is convincing her of the truth that she is so reluctant to admit to herself.
> 
> ...


Does she really have the right to not do anything you ask of her?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Malaise said:


> Does she really have the right to not do anything you ask of her?


of course she has the right, but he has the right to not abide by her actions or lack of them and file


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Saki said:


> *Personally I'm not opposed to confrontation of the OM, with a baseball bat*, however I would suggest that due to it's therapedic properties for you personally rather than considering it a step on the way to healing your marriage.


ooooh. Sorry, but I have to disagree with the bolded part. You approach OM with baseball bat in hand equals terroristic threats, a felony in most places. You injure OM with the baseball bat, would be assault with a deadly weapon, also a felony in most places. In both instances, its automatic jail time. Not worth it at all.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> ooooh. Sorry, but I have to disagree with the bolded part. You approach OM with baseball bat in hand equals terroristic threats, a felony in most places. You injure OM with the baseball bat, would be assault with a deadly weapon, also a felony in most places. In both instances, its automatic jail time. Not worth it at all.


Agreed. The OM is just not worth it. 

Laugh at him and tell him softly that he's an impotent hard up clown. 

That will really hurt him. 

Do it in a public place, where other people may be and can see you but can't necessarily hear you.

If he starts pummeling you due to hurt pride, just curl into a ball to protect your head stay on your back to protect you kidneys and cover your head. 

The other people will call the police and he will be in jail for assault.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

Good luck. I will "see" you in your next thread where you tell us you have caught her again.....She has to do the heavy lifting and you need to have COMPLETE transparency and check up on her.

And don't do anything physical. Do inform the fiance.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

KanDo said:


> Good luck. I will "see" you in your next thread where you tell us you have caught her again.....She has to do the heavy lifting and you need to have COMPLETE transparency and check up on her.
> 
> And don't do anything physical. Do inform the fiance.


I seriously don't understand why some people come here for help, disregard the advice, and decide to do it the hard way, which will end them back here again.

We have a few stories of those who have done this, then come back later to say they were wrong to disregard the advice here.

But if he wants to learn the hard way, then good luck with the rug sweeping.


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## justonelife (Jul 29, 2010)

lordmayhem said:


> I seriously don't understand why some people come here for help, disregard the advice, and decide to do it the hard way, which will end them back here again.


Agreed. It's unfortunate and you wish you could save people from themselves. This was a woman who only a couple of days ago refused to give up the OM and said she had to keep both the OM and H in her life. Now after one hysterical session of crying, they have both seen the light and will be like newlyweds all over again. He's going to trust her this time because she really means it.

Yeah right. I don't buy it. 

Actions speak louder than words. OP - Please listen to your wife's actions, not her words. And her actions are going to take some time to see and you are going to have to VERIFY her actions. Otherwise, it means nothing.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

HH is HerHusband. His wife had an EA/PA. Even left to live with the guy. They R'ed. PM him.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

KanDo said:


> Good luck. I will "see" you in your next thread where you tell us you have caught her again.....She has to do the heavy lifting and you need to have COMPLETE transparency and check up on her.
> 
> And don't do anything physical. Do inform the fiance.


:iagree:

Kando is right. Do not talk or go near the OM.

Just contact the fiancee.

You have her email address. You probably have access to her FB.

Just email her or call her at work.

HM64


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

OldWolf57 said:


> HH is HerHusband. His wife had an EA/PA. Even left to live with the guy. They R'ed. PM him.


He's been AWOL


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## Needinghelpnow (Aug 27, 2012)

Update:

So she wrote him a letter, stating she never wants to speak to him again, and she never wants him to contact her. That she regrets what she did with him and wishes she never gave her any part of her. That he was a scumbag that manipulated her and pretended to care just to get in her pants, etc. 

She wrote me a letter expressing her deep regret and sorrow for bringing this into our life. Promising to be true and making this be the life we originally set out to live together.

She doesn't care if I check up on her, and promises to live her life as an open book.

She said the other day when she wanted to be friends with this guy still was the tipping point. She knew she couldn't do that but she was trying to delay coming to terms with what she ultimately already knew. Accepting these things has been difficult for her, she feels cheap and used and she is ashamed of herself. 

All of these things make me feel better, but how do I know its real. She did everything, everyone said she should do. Is this real?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Maybe, maybe not. Cheaters can be the best of actors or they simply have to be weak enough to resume the affair. What kind of person is you W in general? How much deception went on before her d-day? How far did she go to hide and trickle truth?


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## Romeo_Holden (Sep 17, 2011)

You are handling things well but you should expose to the fiance, it is the sweetest revenge (it was for me) so you should definitely do it. Best of luck to you.


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## Needinghelpnow (Aug 27, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Maybe, maybe not. Cheaters can be the best of actors or they simply have to be weak enough to resume the affair. What kind of person is you W in general? How much deception went on before her d-day? How far did she go to hide and trickle truth?


My wife was/is a wonderful woman. She has never done anything deceiving prior to this. They flirted at work but nothing more for a couple weeks, when I left for a two week business trip he ramped up his pursuit to the highest level. There was one week of kissing, The next week she told him to leave her alone, and he came after her harder, in that second week they were "sexual" three times and had sex twice. I knew something was off while I was away but didn't know what, I just knew something was wrong. When I came home I lightly questioned her on the first day and she hid it. I confronted her the next morning and she admitted everything. She was always pretty up front of what happened. Beyond that she did keep contacting him behind my back but never to meet up or anything. She was trying to get to know him. My arm chair therapist opinion of this and from what we've talked about, she felt cheap for what she did, realized he never told her the truth about himself and his intentions and was trying to find things in him that would make her feel less dirty and used and, she never found it. He gave her less and less and she realized that what she built him up to be was nothing like he really was. He wanted to meet up again but she always told him no and she never arranged anything herself behind my back. My wife was actually very innocent and naive. I was the only man she had ever been with. And she'd never been in the work p[lace or around men that only went after women for one thing. She is a good person and I honestly think she couldn't imagine how someone could just use someone and tell them lies and her contacts where to try to avoid coming to that truth. 

She also suffers from pretty extreme depression, In these instances she gets very self-destructive and she sometimes even becomes delusional. So I'm trying to be understanding because of that for sure. I knew that coming in to this, but to be honest I didn't think she was that close to a breakdown when this all started. 

I feel like I should pursue some legal paths with her work for putting someone with these emotional issues in such an unsafe work environment with someone that was already known to be a predator. 

Anyway..thats getting off track...Baseline is she was always very good, very trustworthy, innocent, loving and caring. That's why this hurts so much because I never in a million years thought this could happen. It also hurts because I know she is vulnerable and naive and I wish I could've protected her i some way, because I honestly feel she is torn up about this...


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## justonelife (Jul 29, 2010)

Wow - Someone should post this as the definion of rug sweeping in case anyone else ever needs to know what it is.

OP - You are finding every excuse in the book not to blame your wife. Really? It's her employer's fault that she is depressed and easily manipulated by a player? How is that their fault? Did he rape her? Was he her boss? If not, then they have absolutely no responsibility in what employees choose to do with their personal time.

You think YOU should have protected her? You are acting like she is a child that doesn't know any better. This is a grown woman that took vows to be faithful to you. If you really think she is so naive and fragile, why did you marry her? 

Until you stop blaming others, you are only allowing it to happen again. You are showing her that you accept this behavior and will not hold her accountable for her actions. Good luck with that.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

No offense but you seem to be wearing rose colored glasses as you see and describe your spouses attributes. Still IF your description is *OBJECTIVE* (and I really can't see how it would be) it sounds like she's sincere.

Still...you don't seem too concerned with her behavior w/respect to her desire to keep in contact with her FWB. Did you completely believe her account of how the A matured? Sounded to sudden to immediately flare up from no s-contact to 3 times in one week (especially given your description of her attitudes). 

Believe half of what you see and NONE of what you hear (for the time being) from her.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Btw have you disposed of the materials used in the cheating?

1. If they used your house, then ALL the furniture they use gets dumped.

2. Clothes, shoes,lingere, panties, jewelry, perfume that she wore for him/with him all go in the dumpster.,


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## Needinghelpnow (Aug 27, 2012)

the thing is I'm not trying to blame everyone but her. I've put most of the blame on her and she has taken responsibility for her actions. that being said there is other blame to go around. She was incredibly vulnerable during this time and he took full advantage of that. He was non stop every day, he was non stop in his after work contact, he convinced her that he was trying to help her and that I was the one hurting her because I was away. I know that this does not excuse her, and I have not let her off the hook. she has taken ownership of this and her behavior and attitude right now is totally different than its been.


like I said before, if I want this to work, I need to have some faith in her again. I'm not doing this so I can stay with someone I don't trust and hate for what they did. I can't hate her forever. If I hold on to that forever we'll never be happy again and dealing with this pain would've been for nothing. 


I understand that she has to prove herself to me, and that much more work needs done but I'm sorry, it seems like some people here are just so bitter and jaded that they think the only way to make themselves feel better is to torture their spouse forever. 

I know the risks involved in putting my faith back in her. She knows the consequences of betraying that faith, I'm completely willing to walk away if she betrays me even in the slightest. but if we want our marriage to be meaningful again, I need to forgive, I need to think about what she's dealing with too, if all her words are honest than I know she is going through some heavy emotional torment too that she brought this into our life, that she devalued herself, that she behaved in a way that she is ashamed and even repulsed by. Those are her words. If she means it, I need to be here for her because that's what I vowed to do, through good and bad. 


If in the end all of this is an illusion, then I walk away. But if I approach this already believing its a lie, than why am I even trying. 

So no this isn't classic rug sweeping. She has said and done everything anyone has suggested needed done. And yes all clothing, etc. that has any connection to this has been thrown out. If she has done everything I've asked, if she is showing remorseful behavior, why can't I try to move forward? 


if I continue to want to torture her, and make her grovel at my feet, what is that saying about me? That I don't have the confidence in myself, that I need her to be completely submissive and begging for my love, just for my own validation? I don't need that. She is a good person that made a terrible mistake . I will not tolerate anything else in relation to this affair, I know that, she knows that. It's time get back to making this marriage work, and time to stop arguing about why it broke, everyone knows that. 

I feel like there are people here that would get more satisfaction from me coming back and saying she did it again than coming back and saying we're in a good place. Maybe it didn't work for you, maybe you couldn't handle it, but that doesn't mean everyone has to be miserable forever
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

Needinghelpnow said:


> the thing is I'm not trying to blame everyone but her. I've put most of the blame on her and she has taken responsibility for her actions. that being said there is other blame to go around. She was incredibly vulnerable during this time and he took full advantage of that. He was non stop every day, he was non stop in his after work contact, he convinced her that he was trying to help her and that I was the one hurting her because I was away. I know that this does not excuse her, and I have not let her off the hook. she has taken ownership of this and her behavior and attitude right now is totally different than its been.
> 
> 
> like I said before, if I want this to work, I need to have some faith in her again. I'm not doing this so I can stay with someone I don't trust and hate for what they did. I can't hate her forever. If I hold on to that forever we'll never be happy again and dealing with this pain would've been for nothing.
> ...


Not really.

People here have seen this happen too many times before and are trying to help you see what they have seen already.


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## Needinghelpnow (Aug 27, 2012)

Honest question. 

I feel like I need her to say that the guy she had the affair with is a bad person. She admits he only wanted her for sex, admits that he manipulated her. At the same time she does take responsibility for what she did, she could've said no and she didn't. She admits her remorse and sorrow for that. But she won't straight out say he was a bad person. She won't admit it but I can tell by her response that she realizes that she wasn't the first that he did this to and she knows she won't be the last, but she won't answer me when I ask her if she believes that. I know her and her inability to answer speaks volumes. My question is...does it matter? Am I pushing for something that has no value? What really matters is what she did, that she hates the person she became for that brief period and who she is promising to be from here on out. Does it really matter if she can say out loud that this guy was a bad person. She'll say he's a scumbag, that he used her, that he didn't care about her, she is very angry about that, but she won't say...he is a bad person...

again...is this just something I want to hear to feel better about it? She does say that I am a good person, that I am a million times the man he is...shouldn't that be enough?

I know so many people here are waiting for her to hurt me again. Looking for reasons to not trust her...but she has done EVERYTHING at this point that I've wanted of her, and she is carrying through with actions that back all of that up...at some point I'm going to just be obsessing over things...is that time now?


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Do you think she's in love with him? Despite all the things he put her through and her knowing that he used her, she still wanted to remain friends. The "I can change him" BS.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

Needinghelpnow said:


> Honest question.
> 
> I feel like I need her to say that the guy she had the affair with is a bad person. *She admits he only wanted her for sex, admits that he manipulated her.* At the same time she does take responsibility for what she did, she could've said no and she didn't. She admits her remorse and sorrow for that.* But she won't straight out say he was a bad person. She won't admit it but I can tell by her response that she realizes that she wasn't the first that he did this to and she knows she won't be the last, but she won't answer me when I ask her if she believes that. I know her and her inability to answer speaks volumes*. My question is...does it matter? Am I pushing for something that has no value? What really matters is what she did, that she hates the person she became for that brief period and who she is promising to be from here on out. Does it really matter if she can say out loud that this guy was a bad person. She'll say he's a scumbag, that he used her, that he didn't care about her, she is very angry about that, but she won't say...he is a bad person...
> 
> ...


She admits this but won't say he's a bad person.

If you talk to ten strangers, tell the facts of the case, how many would say that, yes, the OM was indeed a bad person?

Half? 8 of 10?, 9? or all?

If she admits the above in bold but can't say that this makes him a bad person, IMHO she still has feelings for him,'in the fog',is loyal and protective.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Needinghelpnow said:


> She also suffers from pretty extreme depression, In these instances she gets very self-destructive and she sometimes even becomes delusional. So I'm trying to be understanding because of that for sure. I knew that coming in to this, but to be honest I didn't think she was that close to a breakdown when this all started.
> 
> *I feel like I should pursue some legal paths with her work for putting someone with these emotional issues in such an unsafe work environment with someone that was already known to be a predator.*


Really? Like it's not tough enough to run a business, now the management is supposed to do an in-depth analysis of who is very vulnerable to fall prey to the non-stop affections of another man, and which other men are "predators" looking for vulnerable women to have affairs with, and figure out ways to keep them from working together?


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Needinghelpnow said:


> So no this isn't classic rug sweeping. She has said and done everything anyone has suggested needed done. And yes all clothing, etc. that has any connection to this has been thrown out. If she has done everything I've asked, if she is showing remorseful behavior, why can't I try to move forward?
> 
> *You should try to move forward. But keep your eyes open, be aware of what is going on. It is very common for the cheater to "relapse" into the affair once the initial storm has passed. People here are offering you advice based on their own experiences. Their cheaters may not have been as honorable and truthful as your cheater.*
> 
> ...


*The people here have been where you are, with varying outcomes. They are trying to warn you of what could happen to you, what happened to them, and they are trying to get you to learn from their mistakes. You seem too willing to put this in the past without focusing on why it happened and more importantly how to stop it from happening again, either with this other man or another.

People only know what you post. If your wife is doing everything you ask, that's great, but it's only for a short time. Many of these posters' spouses also did everything they asked for a short time, then went right back to the affair, because they were too quick to forgive all and get back to "normal."*


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Needinghelpnow said:


> Honest question.
> 
> I feel like I need her to say that the guy she had the affair with is a bad person. She admits he only wanted her for sex, admits that he manipulated her. At the same time she does take responsibility for what she did, she could've said no and she didn't. She admits her remorse and sorrow for that. But she won't straight out say he was a bad person. She won't admit it but I can tell by her response that she realizes that she wasn't the first that he did this to and she knows she won't be the last, but she won't answer me when I ask her if she believes that. I know her and her inability to answer speaks volumes. My question is...does it matter? Am I pushing for something that has no value? What really matters is what she did, that she hates the person she became for that brief period and who she is promising to be from here on out. Does it really matter if she can say out loud that this guy was a bad person. She'll say he's a scumbag, that he used her, that he didn't care about her, she is very angry about that, but she won't say...he is a bad person...
> 
> ...


A short time ago she was in love with him. She is not going to go from that to hate so quickly. If she says he is a bad person for the affair, then she will have to think the same of herself, won't she? 

You are looking for her to say that he is a bad person and was evil to the core but that she only made an honest mistake and she is a good person.

She knows what he is. But to say that he is bad and she is good, that he is evil to the core but she only made an honest mistake, probably feels hypocritical to her.

I would try to put this specific other man in the past. The more you talk about this particular other man, the more your wife will think about him, and that is no good. Don't waste any more energy on him. Focus on your wife's shortcomings and how she can stop being so vulnerable to affairs.

I understand that hearing her badmouth him would help you heal, but she feels that anything that she would say about him probably also applies to herself.


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## Needinghelpnow (Aug 27, 2012)

Malaise said:


> She admits this but won't say he's a bad person.
> 
> If you talk to ten strangers, tell the facts of the case, how many would say that, yes, the OM was indeed a bad person?
> 
> ...


SO "the fog"...how long does that last? How do people come out of it? Do I need to keep pushing her to "wake up" or is this something she needs to get out of on her own time?

I know this will take years for me to come close to getting over, theres nothing she can do to make it that much faster, is it the same for her in this situation?


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Will_Kane said:


> Really? Like it's not tough enough to run a business, now the management is supposed to do an in-depth analysis of who is very vulnerable to fall prey to the non-stop affections of another man, and which other men are "predators" looking for vulnerable women to have affairs with, and figure out ways to keep them from working together?


At the very lest, the management should know what type of person they have in their employ and then they can make in informed decision about keeping him.

I'm not a lawyer, but as a Corporate Executive I've gone through enough Sexual Harrasment training to recognize it when I see it (or read about it). If the OP doesn't make an issue of it, some one else will and he can do more damage to some woman next time.

Needinghelpnow, at the very least, try to have him fired by thretening a law suit.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> to me there are at the bare minimum 4 requirements to properly heal and have a successful R
> 
> 1) NC no contact at all- as stated in your other thread, she can never have any contact again with OM, none of this just friends malarkey. If he contacts her then she must ignore it and tell you of the attempt right away
> 2) Complete transparency- all passwords given up, access to phone is 100%, she informs you of her whereabouts etc. AND YES you should do your own monitoring thru spy methods like a VAR and keylogger and GPS. IT HELPS YOU HEAL AND REGAIN TRUST by seeing that her actions match her words, you will eventually ease off as you get comfortable and regain trust. Don't jump into blind trust again.
> ...


#3 "she is willing to do the things to help you heal"


that would include saying "The OM is a bad person."


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## Needinghelpnow (Aug 27, 2012)

Seriously. How long should I expect "thew fog" to last?

Because really, other than not coming out and saying the words" he was a bad person" she has done everything else. She seems lighter and more like her old self again. She has been more loving to me, more understanding. She is vowing to me that she realizes how bad it was, that she wishes she hadn't done it and that she has no desire to be friends with him, talk to him, see him, ever again. She says he represents the biggest mistake of her life and she wants to stay as far away from that as possible.

Am I nit picking semantics here with the bad person thing? She says he's a scumbag, she says he's an a-hole, she just won't say "he is a bad person" is she saying it and I'm just focusing on the wrong thing or does she need to say "he's a bad person" to really get out of the fog? Do I just think I need to hear that to feel better?


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

Needinghelpnow said:


> Seriously. How long should I expect "thew fog" to last?
> 
> Because really, other than not coming out and saying the words" he was a bad person" she has done everything else. She seems lighter and more like her old self again. She has been more loving to me, more understanding. She is vowing to me that she realizes how bad it was, that she wishes she hadn't done it and that she has no desire to be friends with him, talk to him, see him, ever again. She says he represents the biggest mistake of her life and she wants to stay as far away from that as possible.
> 
> Am I nit picking semantics here with the bad person thing? She says he's a scumbag, she says he's an a-hole, *she just won't say "he is a bad person" *is she saying it and I'm just focusing on the wrong thing or does she need to say "he's a bad person" to really get out of the fog? Do I just think I need to hear that to feel better?


Can it perhaps be that she is afraid that she will have to admit

she is a bad person as well? And there for afraid how you will react.


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## Needinghelpnow (Aug 27, 2012)

Don't know if anyone is still paying attention to this thread but I wanted to give an update.

Since the last time I posted anything, the OM's finance emailed my wife asking what happened. She had found/seen all the emails my wife had sent him, including the ones that said that they had had sex. As well as the No more contact letter. But the OM is telling his fiance that my wife is making all of this up, that she's been "stalking" him and making all of this up. Obviously his fiance doesn't believe him and was trying to get my wife to confirm her suspicions. So now she knows. So that piece of the puzzle is done. 

I think hearing from the fiance actually did some good, because it made her "real" and my wife was able to get over some other hurdles. Finding out that the OM threw her under the bus and painted her to be a psycho stalker really removed any doubt about him being a bad person too. 

So now, she has admitted that. Also made her declaration of No Contact to the fiance as well. But I really believe her when she says she wants nothing to do with this guy anymore. She has expressed more regret and remorse over the last week. She is taking more actions to show me that she is remorseful and that she is committed to making our marriage work. 

Obviously I still am proceeding cautiously but I feel she is being sincere. 

Is there anything else I should be thinking about. Anything else I should expect of her beyond staying true to me from here on out? Is there any "thing" she should do that she hasn't done to prove herself or the other side of this, help herself to move on?


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

They are still co-workers, aren't they?

The OM and your wife still have time to engage each other during the day, right? They overcome this hurdle together.


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

aug said:


> They are still co-workers, aren't they?
> 
> The OM and your wife still have time to engage each other during the day, right? They overcome this hurdle together.


Needing is this above true? Because if it is.im sorry to say,
That you should not put so much faith in,that she finally
Have seen the light..Please tell me they dont still work together


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

Going NC (no contact) is equivalent to throwing away and staying away to whatever it is youre addicted too because she is not going to quit sir. Wake up from your delusion that cheaters are liars and will continute to cake eat as long as there is no serious consequence. Once YOU wake up, youll know what fog is, but as of right now one jn the fog does not know they are in it, wake up and you will be have a better chance to get your spouse to stop.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

She needs to get a new job, chances are she may get over that OM and maybe start a new relationship BUT that small intercession may be enough withdrawal time to get her to snap back for a bt. Dont be afraid to divorce and move one, thats a good way to wKe them up, you can always change your mind later.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Needing,

I think your last update was great.

True remorse is when she admits that she hates herself for what she has done to you and your marriage.

The contact with fiancée was good because your WW knows she was a real peron that got screwed over too by her.

The others are correct. No Contact is a must.

Keep at it and stay on top of her.

HM64


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

well, I am going to one of those posters you seem to not like, so I will try and go gentle about it.

Someone mentioned rose colored glasses... I do agree. It is very possible that your wife is sorry, remorsefull, doing all the right things etc. And that's good, meaning she does not necessarily want to hurt you or do any harm.

But you need to realize one thing, and the sooner the better: You're wife is NOT who you thought she was - she is capable of cheating on you! Say it again and remember that.

Read my signature; I do think that people make mistakes and I can understand that. We all make mistakes. But you can't say, that she is all good, and the OM is all evil - she made this choice, meaning she has some issues, she has to dig into deep to understand and resolve.

You both need to understand which traits, thoughts, ideas in your wife(!) made her choose the path she did. It has nothing to do with you, the OM or her work environment. She made the choices, now understand the underlying assumptions in this mess.

It doesn't mean that you can't love her, you just need to love her for who she really is (someone being able to cheat) and not for who you thought she was (and still seem to think).

When you are there, you will have a good feeling of moving forwards.

You may take it or leave, been there, done that, nevertheless I wish you all the best.


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## Needinghelpnow (Aug 27, 2012)

Just to address a couple things that were said. And thank you everyone for your posts, honestly, I need to hear a lot of that. 

She did quit her job. I thought I had mentioned that before. She put up a little struggle for a couple days on that, but in all honesty, I found out on a Sunday about the affair, told her she had to quit or I wasn't even going to try to fix this and she was gone from there by that Thursday. 

I know my wife isn't the same person I married. She cheated on me, and the person I married wouldn't have done that. But I've really asked myself if this "new" person, The one that could cheat is worth loving and dealing with all of this pain over, and I keep coming back to yes. It would be easier to walk away and start over. To know that while I still have to come to terms with all of this, if I wasn't staying in this marriage, I would not at least have to be reminded of it everyday when I look at her. But I firmly believe that love we had for each other is still very much alive. That's not the easy answer to come to and trust me I've searched deep. 

There are no excuses for what she did. No matter what was going on in our life, she still made the choice to run away from it, instead of face it and do the right thing. We weren't any different than many married couples. The economy has taken its toll on us, money has been tight and its been tight for a couple years, and that caused a ton of stress. Three kids under the age of 9. And she's been down on herself for a long time for not gaining traction in her own business. Plus she does suffer from a diagnosed and at times severe depression. At the time this happened she was hitting rock bottom. She was drinking a lot, she was contemplating suicide. I did everything I could to try to help her overcome these things but she was shutting me out, looking at me as the enemy most of the time, and she was shutting herself down. 

Fast forward to now and a lot of this has been a wake up call. Its been a struggle as we all know, she got sucked into something that she couldn't handle. She went looking for freedom from what seemed like an overwhelmingly stressful life. She allowed herself to be swayed by kind words and relentless attention. This guy played her, he told her what she wanted to hear, he played her against me, he made his case over and over of why she should do this. She did resist, she kept telling him to back off and he just came at her harder until I was away and all of this happened. He waited till she was alone, and at her most vulnerable. I know people think I'm looking at her with rose colored glasses. Making excuses of why he is evil and my wife isn't, but even though she may not be exactly the woman I married, most of that woman is still there and I know her. She is incredibly naive and incredibly self-destructive when she's at her most depressed. She was a virgin when she and I got together. She had 2 boyfriends before me. She wasn't someone that slept around. Being a good person was what was important to her. And it still is. 

She's looked me in the eyes and told me shes ashamed, sorry, remorseful. She is taking every action I've asked of her, she's said everything I've needed her to say. 

She made a terrible mistake and she needs to make amends for that. But its not Jekyll and Hyde, she's not two different people, she's not an entirely different person. She's the woman I married who made a mistake.It will take me time to feel completely confident that I've made the right choice here. She has a lot of work to do, but I have to take her at her word right now. I've made it clear that I won't tolerate anything else related to this. If there is contact, I'm gone, and I will be.

So I appreciate all that was said. I know I get defensive on some of these which is typical but its hard to communicate 11 years of a relationship into a few posts. I appreciate the honesty and I appreciate being called on things. That's why I'm here. I'm not looking for validation as much as I'm looking for checks and balances.


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

*She did quit her job. *

Thanks for clearing that up.Good news.So im happy for you that i have to take back what i said in my last post.
But, i still would like to advice you to proceed with little caution.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Needing

I happen to agree with you that good people do mistakes and cheat.

And we all agree there never is a good reason to cheat.

I am glad that your wife is remorseful and has taken the steps you have outlined to her.

The real key is if you will be able to forgive her.

It sounds like you can.

Just remember not to lose yourself during this whole lousy process because you sound like a great guy that truly loves his wife that he married.

I hope the woman you married returns to you!

Do not let her take any shortcuts because you deserve to have the woman that you married be the one you want.......

Do not settle for less!


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

My advice is the following:

1. If you have not done so already YOU need to talk the OM Fiance. Tell her what you know, confirm your wife did have an affair, and answer all her questions.

2. Have your wife write a letter to HR at the old company outing the affair and the OM's role as a predator. You need to read it, and then send it to HR with your own letter saying "My wife chose to leave your company and working with the OM in order to save our marriage. This has hurt us financially and will affect our family for years to come. I am providing this information about the OMs activities under your employ for you to examine and take the action you deem appropriate. I will say that the OM saw an opportunity and exploited it. While my wife is now gone and now longer part of the situation, it is very likely that he will repeat his actions at your workplace. You have to ask yourself how this will play out a second time with him. Will it end as neatly for your company as this time has."


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

Needinghelpnow said:


> I'm not going to respond to this situation being as selfish as she was. If I do that, then I'm no better. The thing is, yes she hurt me and made me go through the most painful time of my life, but I want to make this work, I love her, and if I'm serious about that, than I need to extend more courtesy to her than she did me. Because when this is all said and done, won't our marriage be stronger if I show her that?
> 
> Also, I'm still relatively new here, when you said check out HH posts, what exactly do you mean?
> 
> I know I can't let her drag this on and let her abuse me, but I feel like giving her some time is only right.



* I get what your saying about the WS reluctance to let go of the illusion they created surrounding their affair. The story if you will and in some cases it becomes quite the Romeo & Juliet star crossed lovers that can never be...yada yada yada. All that only adds to the forbidden fruit factor of the yarn they spin. 

It's like you wish you could hit a factory reset button and all traces of their imprint on both of you would be gone. 

I think many of us here _get_what you are feeling here.


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

**If in the end all of this is an illusion, then I walk away. But if I approach this already believing its a lie, than why am I even trying?****


That is something many of us struggle with and is one of many horrible consequences of infidelity. As a BS that thought runs through my mind several times a week....because our worlds make no sense now....everything "feels" untrustworthy. Upside down and inside out and we don't even know how to trust ourselves. Is that my gut or my paranoia????? 

What we all have to wrestle with is can we forgive and recover if they always carry a small ember of affection for the AP? It's possible, because many of us have fond memories of past loves .....but usually those memories are not tainted by the pain we caused others.


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