# I'm ready to give up.



## Bravo2.0

Hi all, looking for help/advice. I've been reading lots of threads here about fitness tests, 180's and other problems similar to mine. Hoping someone out there can help/advise.

A little background about me and my wife: We've been married 7 years, we have a six year old together. She has an 11 year old and a 15 year old from her first marriage. She got the house in the divorce. Everything in the house is hers. She has a very large inheritance in the bank. (I only add those because there are financial questions that keep coming up.) I work 3 overnight 12.5 hour shifts so I am home for the kids everyday. She has a typical 9-5 job. With me being with her she was able to pull her two kids out of day care and has marched up the corporate ladder.

Last February I noticed a change in her, our sex life changed from once a week to maybe once every three months, since last February we have had sex maybe three times. Another big thing is the silent treatment, she has always used it as a weapon against me. If she is angry at me over anything, I get the silent treatment. After a while I developed a response, if she is going to give me the silent treatment, I am not going to come groveling to her to find out what I did wrong. Instead I will wait until she comes to me about what is bothering her. In the end, it's always me that gets accused of starting the silent treatment... This drives me crazy as I do not start it.

In the last month things have really taken a turn for the worse, she not only has given me the silent treatment but has completely cut me off, unless she needs to speak to me on an issue regarding me taking one of the kids to an activity or picking them up from school. Otherwise, I do not exist. She comes and goes as she pleases leaving me with the kids. It might be as simple as going shopping but she doesn't tell anyone where she is going. She just goes.

She is a walking rage machine, not just with me but with the kids as well. She comes home from work angry, she goes to work angry, She's angry all of the time. The more I do, the more the kids do to make her happy, she just finds something else to be angry about. It's absolutely insane living under these conditions. I walk on egg shells not knowing what will set her off.

One day I was sitting watching T.V. she comes into the room and yells, "YOU! Sneakers out NOW!" I told her not to speak to me as if I am a five year old. That really pissed her off. I still think there are other ways to ask to remove my sneakers. "Honey, I told you I didn't want anyone wearing their shoes or sneakers around the house, could you take them off?" I can respect a statement like that.

Two days later it was dryer lint. It was all spread out on the kitchen counter for me. My first reaction when I saw it, "I'm in trouble for lint?" Then I thought, "Goes to show who does all of the laundry." Then she walks into the room and asks if I see the lint and I say "Yes, I see it but couldn't you have thrown it away?" She said, "NO I THOUGHT YOU NEEDED A VISUAL AID! Then came a rampage of verbal insults directed at me and once again, I asked that she not speak to me in that manner. Since then she has cut me off. Her belief is that since she doesn't seem to know how to speak to people, why speak to them at all.

We have been seeing a marriage counselor, counting the lint, and the sneakers, my biggest offenses have been, coming home late from picking the kids up at my moms, a toilet she thought was leaking that I hadn't fixed yet ( I checked it, it wasn't leaking) It's all trivial stuff that she brings up. If those are my biggest offenses then the balance scales are way out of whack for all that I do around the house and with the kids and for her. None of that counts apparently. She feels unappreciated. She feels she does everything around the house. She feels over-worked and over-burdened. The fact of the matter is, myself and the oldest do all of the household chores and I do all of the yard work. So where her un-appreciation comes from I have no idea? If anything I felt unappreciated, I even started calling myself the nanny.

As for finances being an issue, she told the marriage counselor she wanted me to pay more to her. Right now I pay her $1,000 a month. He ex pays her $650. The mortgage is $1,100. Then the electric, cell phone, gas, cable and food shopping. I think I am paying more than my fair share. I will never see a penny if she sold the house tomorrow. She inherited over 800k from her parents and thats all in the bank. Last year she had all new hardwood floors installed in four rooms (price was north of 10K) She had a bedroom built in the basement for her son another 7k. The year before she had new tile installed in the kitchen and bathroom. I could go on and on, the point is, when she wants to spend, there is no shortage of money. When it comes to the monthly bills, she claims there is always a shortage and she would like me to make that shortage up. Just last month she bought herself a used jeep wrangler so she can feel the wind in her hair. She already has a nice vehicle. So it's a toy for her. It's difficult for me to see a money problem when I see money being spent on stuff that isn't needed but it's her money. It's her house. She can do what she wants with both. I just have a tough time seeing a financial crisis as she claims. I can't even afford a new car and I'm driving the kids around.

So the counselor suggested we go over the bills together and work on the finances. When we got home I offered to sit down with her the next day to over the bills and she said, "I'm going somewhere so I can't do it tomorrow." She didn't counter with, "Let's sit down on xyz day and go over it." Nothing was said. Then I said, "You tell me how much more you need from me and I will see if I can meet that. If it takes pressure off of you then I will do my best." I also said I would give her my entire check but if I do that I want to see a new car and I want some spending money. It has been nearly two weeks and still she hasn't asked to go over the bills. To me, it seems like she's reaching for issues and the money isn't really an issue, if it were we would have sat down by now to figure out what she wants me to pay.

So the silent treatment continues. The coldness continues. I took to sleeping on the couch in the last week because I feel she doesn't want me in the bed, she makes a lot of commotion when I come into the bed. We sit there and watch tv together but she's sitting there texting her girlfriends the entire time. I feel as if I am being walked on, mistreated, catch all for any anger she has. I feel like she doesn't want me there but when I volunteer to leave if I am the cause of her anger, she says no, she doesn't want me to move out. Yet the passive/aggressive actions say yes she wants me out or at the very least she can't stand to be around me but keeps me there to watch the kids.

I feel as if everything is a landmine. If I do something hoping it will make her happy, she looks for the one item out of place to get pissed off at. Even the kids say it doesn't matter what we do, she's still going to be mad. At this point I'm ready to leave. I can't take it anymore. Yet, she is someone I love and up until a year ago, everything was fine, the usual ups and downs but this is a complete nightmare.


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## unbelievable

What changed last February? Other than the fact that you have a child with her, doesn't sound like anyone I'd invest much time or effort in. Sounds like a hateful bat to me. She's getting help with bills and free child care. Are you getting anything positive out of this arrangement? "You, Sneakers Out NOW!" Are you freaking kidding me? I'd tell that pompous, sexless heifer just how many ways she could bite me.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

> she says no, she doesn't want me to move out


 I would guess NOT!


> Goes to show who does all of the laundry...all that I do around the house and with the kids and for her...myself and the oldest do all of the household chores and I do all of the yard work...I even started calling myself the nanny


Ask her WHAT it is she feels 'unappreciated' about. Her job? You have one, too, PLUS all the house/yard work. The 1/2 house she got from ex-husband? The $800K she got from her parents?

Since she's so big on 'visual aids,' I would recommend you get a wall calendar and mark a big red X every day she gives you the 'silent treatment.'

What does your MC say about the verbal abuse? the silent treatment? the rages? 



> I took to sleeping on the couch in the last week because I feel she doesn't want me in the bed


 Why do YOU get the backache from sleeping on the couch? Why does everyone acquiesce to HER demands? Get back in YOUR bed. If she doesn't like it, SHE can discuss the matter or move to the couch herself.

If you are in MC and things are STILL this ridiculous, I would suggest a trial-separation. You could try moving out for a few months and see if wife is willing to re-consider her verbally abusive behavior. Maybe at that point, you may be reconsidering staying married to this sexless shrew!


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## DanF

You need to leave.
There is no way that I would put up with that treatment.


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## AFEH

It sounds to me like she’s trying to make it so uncomfortable for you that you’ll leave and she’ll divorce for desertion such that you wont get a settlement.

You are a financial dependent. Never a good thing that.


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## Samson

Man...rough stuff. I'm going through similiar circumstances with my wife. Her nest, so she she has to have it her way. She's pursuing her dreams on your buck, leaving you to pick up the slack around house. She keeps giving you mixed signals, is constantly angry, and seems to be losing interest in you. Anytime you try to gain control of your life and get things back on track she says your too controling. If I'm out of line tell me so, but I think we're on the same page.

Bravo2.0 your a good man and are trying to do the best for your family, thats what any husband should do. But you are also an individual and have desires of your own. You are responsible for your happiness, don't anticipate your wife to reciprocate the affection your feeding her. 

You work, you make money, so spend it on something for you. Do you have a man cave? If not think about coverting the garage or a spare room in the house. If you don't have the space do it physically, create a room of your own in a notebook or go to a bar (if you drink) every once in while. Start saving and take a "man-cation": deep sea fishing, Vegas, or a good old fashion road trip. Send the kids to your parents or in-laws during this time and let her take care of her house for the time being. Your time off shouldn't directed towards her and kids all the time, be responible for your well being.

If she dosent see it your way, complains about it being too much money and having a mid-life crisis, take her favorite lipstick and write "EGO BOOSTER" on the side of that wrangler. I think both of you want your marriage to work, you just need a shock to the system to come back together and stop being polar opposites. Once your happy with yourself and gain a little confidence back I think the silent treatment will stop, till then be happy and just laugh it off.

I feel like I'm ranting, but I hope this helps.


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## Tall Average Guy

Bravo2.0 said:


> I feel as if everything is a landmine. If I do something hoping it will make her happy, she looks for the one item out of place to get pissed off at. Even the kids say it doesn't matter what we do, she's still going to be mad. *At this point I'm ready to leave.* I can't take it anymore. Yet, she is someone I love and up until a year ago, everything was fine, the usual ups and downs but this is a complete nightmare.


Then what is stopping you? I don't like to advocate for divorce, but if nothing is working, and you are ready to leave, do it. May be it will wake her up.

If you can't, then detach. Do the 180, look after yourself, separate the finances and demand proof when she says she needs money. Put all the expenses on the table and let her know what you will pay for. In the meantime, save up for the day you are ready to leave.

And move back to the bedroom. You did not do anything wrong, so don't slink off to the couch like you are being punished. If she does not like it, tell her to move.


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## Conrad

Tall Average Guy said:


> Then what is stopping you? I don't like to advocate for divorce, but if nothing is working, and you are ready to leave, do it. May be it will wake her up.
> 
> If you can't, then detach. Do the 180, look after yourself, separate the finances and demand proof when she says she needs money. Put all the expenses on the table and let her know what you will pay for. In the meantime, save up for the day you are ready to leave.
> 
> And move back to the bedroom. You did not do anything wrong, so don't slink off to the couch like you are being punished. If she does not like it, tell her to move.


I'm going to step in for bandit.45 here.

As TAG says, you are taking your view of yourself from her. She's not having sex with you anyway, what the hell do you care what she says or thinks? Do a hard 180. You've likely given up all your individual pursuits and interests to "make her happy" and this is a fool's errand.

She's getting childcare and you're paying to do it.

*The hell with the b*tch*


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## Prodigal

Bravo2.0 said:


> I work 3 overnight 12.5 hour shifts so I am home for the kids everyday. She has a typical 9-5 job. With me being with her she was able to pull her two kids out of day care and has marched up the corporate ladder.
> 
> She is a walking rage machine, not just with me but with the kids as well. She comes home from work angry, she goes to work angry, She's angry all of the time. The more I do, the more the kids do to make her happy, she just finds something else to be angry about.* It's absolutely insane living under these conditions*. I walk on egg shells not knowing what will set her off.
> 
> Right now I pay her $1,000 a month. He ex pays her $650. The mortgage is $1,100.
> 
> She inherited over 800k from her parents and thats all in the bank.
> 
> the point is, when she wants to spend, there is no shortage of money. When it comes to the monthly bills, she claims there is always a shortage and she would like me to make that shortage up.


So, I assume she ALWAYS gave you the silent treatment when she was p.o.'d. I also assume you were privy to this "attractive" behavior while dating.

Here is what it is. She is selfish. She is a major beyotch. You are something she uses to allow her to keep her inheritance safe and her own paycheck.

So, you have a no-sex, rage machine on your hands. MC isn't helping. You are bending over backwards. That isn't helping. The kids are also suffering from her wrath.

How soon can you cut your losses, pack up your stuff, and get the heck outta there?

Leave her to her own misery, rage, or whatever mood she so desires. Let her count her money. My only feeling is for the children who have to live with this harpy. MEH!!!


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## CH

I'm gonna play the other side.

how many times have she had to tell you not to wear sneakers in the house? 1 time, 5 times, 10 times, 100 times, 500 times, 1000 times?

How times have she had to tell you to take the lint out of the dryer?

How many times has she told you to do this or that?

If you're like a little kid that needs mommy to keep on reminding you what to do then I can understand why she's acting like a B. My wife was like that until I realized I was causing the problem. I already knew what had to be done but was an a-hole and only did it when she blew up.

Oh but I just forget. Once in a while then ok, but almost everytime, then you're at fault just as I was.

She doesn't need another kid to take care of, she needs a husband to help her.

It builds up slowly until they blow, it took my wife until a couple of years back to blow up on me. Yes I still forget to do it once in a while and I'll apologize profusely but then I make it up to her in other ways.

Remember, being biggest kid she has to take care of doesn't make a woman want to have sex with you or even be around you.


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## Browncoat

One thing that really worked for my wife and I was to write down all the things that bothered us in the relationship. We were brutally honest, and we wrote our own lists individually.

We then sat down together and went over them with the agreement that the one listening wouldn't get defensive or raise their voice. Just listen and be constructive and loving back. We tried to come up with 3 concrete things we were going to do for each of us to try and turn things around.

It definitely helped us, if for no other reason than to clear the air.

You might want her to do that with you.


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## Bravo2.0

QUOTE=unbelievable;699632]What changed last February? Other than the fact that you have a child with her, doesn't sound like anyone I'd invest much time or effort in. Sounds like a hateful bat to me. She's getting help with bills and free child care. Are you getting anything positive out of this arrangement? "You, Sneakers Out NOW!" Are you freaking kidding me? I'd tell that pompous, sexless heifer just how many ways she could bite me.[/QUOTE]


What changed last February? I believe menopause had started. To date I have asked her three times if in fact menopause is causing the rage and she will not confirm she is going through it. When the MC finally asked her she said, "I am at that age."


I'm not getting anything positive out of this arrangement anymore, at least before all of this started there was emotional satisfaction, sexual satifaction etc., Now it's a living nightmare. It's cold and I always feel alone standing on quicksand.




Prodigal said:


> So, I assume she ALWAYS gave you the silent treatment when she was p.o.'d. I also assume you were privy to this "attractive" behavior while dating.
> 
> Here is what it is. She is selfish. She is a major beyotch. You are something she uses to allow her to keep her inheritance safe and her own paycheck.
> 
> So, you have a no-sex, rage machine on your hands. MC isn't helping. You are bending over backwards. That isn't helping. The kids are also suffering from her wrath.
> 
> How soon can you cut your losses, pack up your stuff, and get the heck outta there?
> 
> Leave her to her own misery, rage, or whatever mood she so desires. Let her count her money. My only feeling is for the children who have to live with this harpy. MEH!!!



Yes the silent treatment has always been there but not as often or as long as they can go on for now. I see that she is selfish. I see the save the inheritance side of her, she keeps that seperate from the actual household bills. I see what you are saying that this side of her has always been there but not to the point it is now and I agree. Yet, we did have a great marriage up until last year. I could leave tomorrow but how does that save our marriage?




AFEH said:


> It sounds to me like she’s trying to make it so uncomfortable for you that you’ll leave and she’ll divorce for desertion such that you wont get a settlement.
> 
> You are a financial dependent. Never a good thing that.


Yes I see this as well. As much as she says she doesn't want me to leave, her actions are saying otherwise. She's trying to squeeze me for more money which would then make me financially dependent. It seems like a control thing to me. 




cheatinghubby said:


> I'm gonna play the other side.
> 
> how many times have she had to tell you not to wear sneakers in the house? 1 time, 5 times, 10 times, 100 times, 500 times, 1000 times?
> 
> How times have she had to tell you to take the lint out of the dryer?
> 
> How many times has she told you to do this or that?
> 
> If you're like a little kid that needs mommy to keep on reminding you what to do then I can understand why she's acting like a B. My wife was like that until I realized I was causing the problem. I already knew what had to be done but was an a-hole and only did it when she blew up.
> 
> Oh but I just forget. Once in a while then ok, but almost everytime, then you're at fault just as I was.
> 
> She doesn't need another kid to take care of, she needs a husband to help her.
> 
> It builds up slowly until they blow, it took my wife until a couple of years back to blow up on me. Yes I still forget to do it once in a while and I'll apologize profusely but then I make it up to her in other ways.
> 
> Remember, being biggest kid she has to take care of doesn't make a woman want to have sex with you or even be around you.



I appreciate you taking the devil's advocate role but the sneaker thing was a new rule initiated the week before. So this had only been the second time it was ever mentioned.


I do most of the laundry so I usually am the one who cleans out the lint tray but I had just done six loads of laundry before heading off to bed. She was the first one up and was putting her laundry into the dryer when she saw the lint.


If you read my first post I clearly state I do most of the household chores, take care of the kids, do the yard work, take the kids to their activities, not sure where you get the impression I am another child she needs to mommy? If anything, I am helping her a great deal by doing all of these things and I'm paying her to do it.


I'm certainly not saying I'm perfect. In a normal relationship I'm sure we all do things that piss off our partners, roommates or girlfriends. The question is about the normal reaction to these things. I don't think people go off into a flew blown rage over lint and stop talking for five weeks now. That is not, "Hey I TOLD you to clean the frigging clean the lint trap! How many fing times do I have to tell you!" Then it's forgotten about and you're back to talking again.


She has some serious issues going on and I can't figure out what the hell it is. Can menopause cause this much anger? I don't know. Last week, we are all getting ready to have dinner in the dining room. Our six year old sits in Mom's seat. Mom comes in to sit down, sees the six year old in her seat and goes and eats in the kitchen, even after I told her I moved the six year old and her seat is now open. She would not come into the dining room. It makes life really uncomfortable for me and all the kids when you see something like that. Now the other two kids are yelling at the six year old for making mom sit in the kitchen. The six year old leaves crying. Mom is sitting in the kitchen pouting that her seat was taken. That's just not normal. Everybody is doing everything to keep Mom happy but in the meantime we're turning into one huge dysfunctional family.


Sorry I couldn't quote everyone's response, I do appreciate all of the responses as I'm trying to come to grips with what I am dealing with and what I might have to deal with.


As for this being her nest. Yes! Yes! and Yes! Exactly. It is her nest and that is something she uses to keep me even more off balance. She asked me in MC if I would have anything more than I have now if I were living in an apartment? Because living in apartment a landlord isn't going to give you anything. So that's how it is huh? She's the landlord and I'm the tenant? It's part of the walking on egg shells thing. She can throw me out anytime she feels like it. She already said it to the kids in January while I was at work, she said she was sick of my **** and was going to throw me out. This was because the cable got cut off for non-payment. Now it's my fault the bill didn't get paid? Isn't that what my money is contributing to? Hell she threatened to throw her own daughter out because her daughter sat down with her to talk about why she came home angry everynight. So her answer to everything is to throw us all out? That's normal?


Some of you have suggested I do a 180. I don't know what that is but I can see it means do things to help yourself. Take yourself out of the situation. Have minimal contact with my wife. The thing about that, it seems like what she's already doing to me. So how does it help if now we both are pulling back?


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## the guy

The 180 is to help you protect your emotions from additional torture.

Something tells me you will hear how happy and talkative she really is when you plant a VAR (Voice Activated Recorder) under her car seat.

This tactic may either confirm or void her manapause. It just might be you and her family life that she hates. Often she may feel like she is sneaking out and is accusing you to justify her behavior.

I strongly suggest you go buy a VAR and some velcrow tape and plant it in her car. Alot can be answered when poeple think no ones listening.

I'm not saying she cheating, but she might be confiding with someone close and there by getting the real reason behind her anger.


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## talin

Just ignore her.

Yes it's really that easy.

I know you are wondering why you never thought of that?


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## t_hopper_2012

I'm thinking outside of the box here.

She keeps the inheritance separate from the household finances, but it is still out in the open. What are the marital property laws in your state? Unless you have a pre-nup, everything you talk about is marital property (the house, the 800K inheritance, all of it). You might talk to a lawyer in order to find out. (Also, find out what the rules are regarding no-fault divorce in your state).

Now, it sounds like you don't want a divorce and, believe me, I am rooting for the long term success of your marriage. I'm just thinking that you need to get things on more even terms.

If you knew and SHE knew that 1/2 of what she thinks of as *hers* could actually be *yours*, then that puts things on a different footing. You would have to play this carefully in MC, but you might bring up a proposition. Unless she starts treating you like an equal partner in this marriage - and stops this emotional abuse, you will end the marriage and walk off with your fair share - 1/2 of everything. 

Again, just thinking outside of the box.


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## keko

I think in most if not all states, inheritance is non-marital property. Check it with a local lawyer just to make sure.

Bravo2.0, 

Are you sure she isn't involved in an affair? Coming late from work, working evenings, business trips, anything?

In the mean time start stashing some cash for rainy days. Keep a VAR on yourself at all times, they WILL come in handy if she claims false domestic violence on you or even child custody if you catch her being aggressive to the kids. 

When nobody is around the house, make copies of all financial/important documents and put them in a safe.

Affair or not, menopause or not, hope for the best but plan for the worst.


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## LaxUF

I have two words for you and a link:

*TRANSMUTATION DOCTRINE*

Divorce: How Property Ownership Changes - Lawyers.com


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## Blue Moon

the guy said:


> The 180 is to help you protect your emotions from additional torture.
> 
> Something tells me you will hear how happy and talkative she really is when you plant a VAR (Voice Activated Recorder) under her car seat.
> 
> This tactic may either confirm or void her manapause. It just might be you and her family life that she hates. Often she may feel like she is sneaking out and is accusing you to justify her behavior.
> 
> I strongly suggest you go buy a VAR and some velcrow tape and plant it in her car. Alot can be answered when poeple think no ones listening.
> 
> I'm not saying she cheating, but she might be confiding with someone close and there by getting the real reason behind her anger.



Yeah, definitely. Disengaging isn't to be "mean," it's for your sanity.


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## c2500

Your story reminds me alot of my now failed marriage. The wife made more money than me and started ramming it down my throat. She is a big shot at her job. Ultimately, I busted her ass for adultry. Her guilty conscience led her to treat me like an employee...or better yet the dog that gets kicked. I would bet she is having an affair.

I stupidly reconciled because I loved her to only have her decide 4-5 months later I could never get over the affair..and after a year I should have been over it. Oh well...get a PI and start checking up. You will not be happy with what you find.


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## Bravo2.0

Just to keeps folks updated and thanks for the responses. I did a hard 180. She seemed to rather enjoy it. She didn't have to engage me in any way.

I planted two VAR's one in her car and one in our bedroom. I could find nothing. I've sat in her parking lot at work since this is where, if there is an affair, I am going to find who it is she is meeting. She works in customer service. the phones go off at 5PM. Yet, usually Wednesdays and Fridays she says she's working late. I've sat in that parking lot on those nights and she is usually meeting up with her girlfriends or she is staying at the office and I've waited for a while to see if anyone else comes out after and I have yet to see anyone.

I don't think she is cheating. I think she is filling the void of our relationship by hanging out with her girlfriends. We are supposed to go on a family vacation next week and guess who is coming, all of her girlfriends will be coming up on differing nights. So, another way to keep her distance from me and not have to engage me and probably will find myself sitting in a cottage with the kids while she is out with her friends...

She quit MC. I went two more times to show her I was working on our relationship and would love for her to attend but she never showed. So I started seeing a counselor for myself to help deal with everything.

She still hasn't spoken to me since March 20th - unless it involves the kids- and we still haven't had any sex.

I guess people keep coming back to try to figure out just what went wrong. I know I want to know what went wrong. I sat with her and asked, is there anything I should be doing that I don't do? Are there things I could be doing better? Are there needs I am not meeting? Any suggestions on to me on what I can do to help out more? All I got were answers like, "no clue." "no idea." "dunno" and "no clue" At the end of this I told her if she ever feels like talking, I'm here. I put the ball in her court and to date she has yet to speak to me.

I'm just baffled as to how this unwound so rapidly to the point I don't want to be there and by her passive/aggressive nature, appears she doesn't want me there but she told the MC, she does want me there. It's rather confusing?

She doesn't rage anymore, she has checked out emotionally. Meanwhile, I'm still grappling trying to figure out where it all went wrong.


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## C3156

Bravo2.0 said:


> I guess people keep coming back to try to figure out just what went wrong. I know I want to know what went wrong. I sat with her and asked, is there anything I should be doing that I don't do? Are there things I could be doing better? Are there needs I am not meeting? Any suggestions on to me on what I can do to help out more? All I got were answers like, "no clue." "no idea." "dunno" and "no clue" At the end of this I told her if she ever feels like talking, I'm here. I put the ball in her court and to date she has yet to speak to me.
> 
> She doesn't rage anymore, she has checked out emotionally. Meanwhile, I'm still grappling trying to figure out where it all went wrong.


This is the most telling to me, she has checked out and does not care. Hard to deal with someone when they don't care. You have given your marriage more than a lot of other people would. But you do have a right to be happy and be with someone who appreciates you too.

Look to your future and how best to move forward for yourself and your child. I am not one to just quit, but how much are you supposed to take as a spouse? A marriage is supposed to be a growing and rewarding experience for both parties involved. Yes you may love her, but what is all your love and effort getting you? You need to start asking yourself some of these difficult type of questions and determine how you want your future to be. And it may not involve your wife, except as the mother of your child.

As for why, you may never get an answer. I think you are doing the right thing by getting counseling for yourself. She obviously does not see a problem with herself, but you can make yourself better.


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## MrHappy

WTF! She has you paying rent and taking care of the kids and everything else. You've become a live-in nanny. She keeps pushing you to see how far you will bend and you do. Man up!!! Draw the line. It sounds like you are married? You could try to separate for while or go straight to a divorce. You just need to make clear to her you won't bend anymore and let her make the choice in a timely manner if she wants a marriage with you or not.


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## Tall Average Guy

Bravo2.0 said:


> She quit MC. I went two more times to show her I was working on our relationship and would love for her to attend but she never showed. So I started seeing a counselor for myself to help deal with everything.
> 
> She still hasn't spoken to me since March 20th - unless it involves the kids- and we still haven't had any sex.
> 
> ***
> I'm just baffled as to how this unwound so rapidly to the point I don't want to be there and by her passive/aggressive nature, appears she doesn't want me there but she told the MC, she does want me there. It's rather confusing?
> 
> She doesn't rage anymore, she has checked out emotionally. Meanwhile, I'm still grappling trying to figure out where it all went wrong.


Listen to her actions, not her words. Her actions say she does not want you and that she wants to spend time with others instead of you. She does nto want sex with you. She does want you to help raise the kids and pay your share of things.

Since she is not interested in improving things, this is how things will continue for the near future (unless she finds someone else). With that in mind, is this the life you want to lead? Do you want this marriage to be the example for your children?


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## AFEH

Bravo2.0, with passive aggression, take the passive part out and think on just the aggression for a while.

What is aggression? Hostile, injurous or destructive behaviour. Spoken or physical behaviour which is threatening or involves harm to someone.

Now put Active in front of aggression. Active Aggression. This is the physically abusive partner, who hits and kicks in order to cause pain, hurt and wound. Active aggression is overt. You can see it in action and you can see it’s results, cuts, bruises, broken bones.


Now go back to passive aggression. It’s psychological behaviour designed to hurt, cause pain and wound but this time emotionally instead of physically. Passive aggression is covert. You cannot see passive aggression in action like you can active aggression. You can see the results, normally a very sad and confused person who maybe thinks he’s going crazy and there’s something wrong with him.


In the scheme of things it matters not why your wife is an aggressive person. It matters not if she is a passive aggressive or an active aggressive person. What matters is that she is an aggressive woman and because of that she is a very dangerous woman who has and will hurt you.

She doesn’t need a reason to hurt you. It is not something you have done. It is all on her and the type of woman she is. Much like a man who is an active aggressive and beats his wife with his fists. It’s all on him.


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## Bravo2.0

All great advice and some real eye opening posts. I do watch her actions and I see that they are saying she doesn't want to be around me. I really like the explanation of passive/aggressive. And I do feel like a live in nanny -one of my big complaints.

I have read a lot of literature on the net about emotionally checking out and silent treatment and passive/aggressive behavior. Everything I have read says she is showing anger towards me for something I've done real or perceived. The point they try to make is there is still some feeling there if she is showing any kind of anger. if I can get to the root of that anger, we can start to figure out how to repair our marriage.

My problem is I can't get her to talk about what it is I have done that made her so angry that she is unwilling to talk to me. She wouldn't tell the MC anything to help us uncover her anger. She likes to hold things in and let me try to figure it out, now she has taken it to an extreme.

If I just walk out as some have suggested then I really have taken out any shot at repairing the marriage. It's just me getting away from an issue that maybe, is something repairable.

I don't know, I feel if I walk out I am cutting off my nose to spite my face. I could cut her off and let her see just how much I contribute by letting her deal with the three kids and work, alone. But that would only make her more angry which flies in the face of trying to make our marriage work.

I feel I have to go back to square one as to what brought us together in the first place and see if I can rekindle something inside of her to show that we still could have a great future together.


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## AFEH

Your wife’s behaviour is probably pathological. For me, pathological behaviour is maladjusted, malevolent (malicious, spiteful, wicked, nasty, mean) behaviour that the person carrying out the behaviour actually believes is normal.

A maladjusted person “describes a person, usually a child, who has been raised in a way that does not prepare them well for the demands of life, which often leads to problems with behaviour in the future”.

This is why some here will say “Look to her childhood” for the source, root causes, of the problems in your marriage.

But as a husband we have two problems. The first is of course our wife’s maladjusted nature (character) and the affect of their nature demonstrated to us through their malevolent behaviour.

To put it really crudely, these type of people consider it acceptable behaviour to consciously and deliberately hurt people in a planned and premeditated way. They really do believe at their very core as a person that it is normal to hurt other people in a deliberate, non accidental way.

So when you speak to such a person about the affects of their behaviour on you, they’re just sitting their thinking “What a total fool you are. Don’t you know I wounded you deliberately?”.

Of course, just like the worse type of criminal they are never going to own up to their crime. Instead they will deny, blame shift, scapegoat, deceive, lie etc. And in doing so they will make you feel as though you are the crazy one.

In the really big picture it becomes a bit of a battle over what is normal behaviour and what is pathological behaviour. For example, your wife may well think you are the one with the maladjusted, pathological behaviour. She may actually get you thinking that way as well.

Unless your wife sees her behaviour as abnormal and becomes aware of it’s affects on those around her such that she feels guilt and remorse, she will NEVER seek help to change herself. If she does seek help it is at that time that you can help her. Until that time you are just in a religious war, a battle of different beliefs.


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## Bravo2.0

Wow! Great response which got me to thinking about her childhood and there are issues that I know of and some I do not. So I do believe there is a lot of merit that at her very core she has brought things from her childhood with her and whether she realizes it or not, she is acting on those.

Her father was an alcholic. He worked nights. She said he only spoke to her when she did something wrong and when he spoke, he yelled. Other than that he never spoke to her.

I know of one incident she used to talk about early on when we met that really upset her, her mother had an older daughter from a previous marriage. The mother was going to leave the father and told my wife she had to stay with her father but she was taking the older sister with her. That really bothers her to this day and the mother never did leave her father.

I do not know much about the mother as she never really spoke of her but I'm thinking this is the person who taught her to use the silent treatment or she saw it in action and thinks this is proper behavoir. I wish I knew more about her mom. There is definetily something there but the mom passed away shortly before I met my wife.

In our first session with the MC after she spoke about her childhood, the MC asked her if either of her parents had been diagnosed with bi-polar disorder. He asked three times if bi-polar ran in her family. He never asked me after I spoke about my childhood so it seems there was something he heard from her to lead him to believe that this may have been in her family and if I read more deeply into it, either she has it or was deeply affected by it. But back then men drank to hide to their problems so if it was her dad who was bi-polar he would have never been diagnosed with it.

Here's the thing; I work nights. She could be relating me to her dad? But I do not drink and I do not yell at her. Nonetheless, me sleeping during the days I worked the night prior could be enough for her to see me as her dad right?

I know she's jealous of the fact that I have a large family. As I mentioned her mom passed away before I met my wife. Her dad passed away long ago. Her only sister passed away from cancer. So she has no immediate family. She mentions this quite often. If I take the kids to see my mom while my wife is at work, I will get the silent treatment. If I call one of my brothers, I will get the silent treatment. I don't get the "normal" "How is your mom or how is your brother doing?"

I also read your NUTS post. I see alot of things I let her get away with. Like I said I work nights but I only work three 12.5 hour shifts then I am off for four days. Those four days I am off, I am totally with the kids. She uses that by not coming straight home from work after I have been with the kids all day. Even the days I need to sleep, when the kids are home from school, they are here and have no problem coming into to wake me up. Which just reminded me, if my wife and I need to go somewhere, and I'm asleep, she will not wake me up. This must be something she learned from her father.

She will text me to say she is working late, going to get her nails done, going out with the girls etc., I get angry with this because I feel she should be coming home. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind if she has a planned night out with the girls but I do not like finding out at 5:00PM when she is getting out of work that she has decided to go off and do something and now I am home with the kids for another couple of hours. I become very resentful.

In short she knows I cannot go anywhere. She uses that for her benefit and I feel like a doormat.

I am from a very large city and all of my male friends live south of this city. I moved north to another state to live with my wife in a small rural area. I love it here as it is such a contrast to the hustle and bustle of the big city. But in doing so, I have no male friends to hang out with. I have searched for groups, bowling leagues anything where it is just men and to date I have never found anything in my area. They roll the sidewalks up at 8PM... Unless I join AA, which I have no need of but that is the only thing I can find.

Again, I feel because of this, it is used against me to benefit her. She knows I have no where to go or do. So she will now come and go as she pleases leaving me with the kids. Again, I feel like a doormat.

This is one of the reasons why I feel as if I am a live in nanny. I love the kids but come on, I need me time. I do have a man cave but that pisses her off if I go down there.

I thought I have been a dutiful husband, father and partner by not going out drinking, gambling etc., now I see where that can lead to being pushed around. 

This also is another reason why her silent treatment is so affective with me because she knows how off balance it puts me. You can't imagine how alone it can make you feel when you've been ostrasized in such a way. Now I know why timeouts are used with children because it's scary to be pushed into being alone but in my case for reasons real or imagined, I am being punished.

I think I have lost sight of my boundaries and I think she knows this and takes full advantage of it. I think this one of my core issues; how to let her know what my boundaries are?


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## AFEH

Spend time identifying and describing your boundaries. You will literally feel yourself going through a transformation. You will experience this part of the process as exceedingly private, primal and personal.

In essence in these situations the boundaries you identify and describe will be boundaries of impatience and intolerance. Behaviour from your wife that you will no longer tolerate.

Let’s say your wife comes home drunk once a week regularly and as she walks in the home she hits you with her fist in your face and then goes to bed. You love the woman but not only that if you leave you will no longer have a roof over your head and a home to live in. So you keep tolerating her abuse hoping above hope that she will change. You even look into her childhood for the source of her aggressive ways. But still she thumps you in the face. In fact nothing you do stops her thumping you in the face.

If you assert the boundary “I will never tolerate you thumping me again” and she does thump you again, what do you do? Do you walk out and enforce your boundary in the only way you can and that’s by never seeing your wife again? Is that what you do? Is that what you are prepared to do?

These emotional and psychological boundaries that protect us are more or less exactly the same as the boundaries that protect us from physically aggressive and violent people.

In that if your wife does not respect your boundaries, then given my understanding of your situation, you must leave her.

It gets very much WORSE if you assert a boundary but do not ENFORCE it. It’s like living with an aggressive emotional and psychological bully. They now know you have no boundaries so it’s kind of open warfare. 

From your point of view, your perspective, they have totally proven to you that they cannot control their aggression. If their uncontrolled aggression where visible and outside of a marriage they would either be sectioned and put in a mental hospital because they cannot enforce their own boundaries and control their own behaviour or they’d be in prison for exactly the same reasons.

The problem is you cannot do that with your wife. You cannot with your superior physical strength enforce your boundaries on her behaviour. Your wife knows that, she uses it and that’s part of what makes her an emotional and psychological aggressive bully who wants to inflict pain on you. And just like any bully, she doesn't need a reason.


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## Bravo2.0

To use your analogy of getting thumped in the face, yes I allowed her to do that. That's on me. I should have nipped the silent treatment in the bud from the start. Instead I groveled, begged forgiveness and apologized. After three years of that, from what I understood of the silent treatment, it's all about control, so the more I went to her, the more control I was giving her.

I started heading to my man cave when she started the silent treatment, this worked to an extent that it got her to come to me but always at the end of the arguement, it was me who ended up getting blamed for the silent treatment and then it would go in cycles like that until 4 months ago when she said she wanted off of this roller coaster ride. One she started but again I was being blamed for starting it.

She has raised the bar to a new level so yes I am prepared to leave because if I let her get away with this new level of treatment, it will just set me up for even worse treatment down the rode. I can see that.

Here's my dilemma: This Saturday we are supposed to go to Maine for a family vacation. Under the current situation I am enduring, if I go on this vacation and vacations are supposed to be fun, but it just turns out that the treatment is the same just a different venue I will be spending a week in hell. If I tell her I am not going unless she ends the silent treatment am I standing my ground, setting a boundary? I ask because I know it's going to be thrown in my face that this is a family vacation and I am letting the kids down. I can just see this playing out in my mind because I know her to well. Or do I go and if she doesn't show that she is willing to talk to me, end up leaving at some point coming home and packing up to go stay with family until I get my own place?

I know I sound wishy washy but if you been beaten down the way I have, you kind of lose sight of what is right and what is wrong.


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## AFEH

There is a line in the sand which I think is best to pick and place as wisely as possible.

My line was wisely drawn with forethought. But it’s enforcement was not good at all. In my case my wife had deeply wounded me and not for the first time in our four decade relationship. And I’d had enough of it.

The last time round I identified and asserted my boundaries against her abusive behaviour. So it wouldn’t happen again. Things happen very quickly when you do those things “to” an abusive person. I think what happened was that my wife knew her “game” was up. She knew beyond any doubt that I’d called time on it.

Her response was something like “Ok, its over” and she booked her flight for about a weeks time. The day before her flight we attempted a reconciliation. Within a very short time she just trashed right through my boundaries and attempted to wound me again. It was at that instant they I knew with absolute certainty that her passive aggressive behaviour was pathological and there’s not a thing I could do about it no matter how in love with her I was.

That was the instant in time when my line in the sand was absolutely set with a ring of steel. And it’s stayed that way. I’ve lost the woman I loved for decades and the woman I thought I’d get (really) old with. I’ve lost all of her good values and beliefs, the things I loved her for. And I’ve lost half of what we accrued as a married couple.

But I’ve more than survived, I have a really good life quite full with good friends and healthy relationships. And I live in the knowledge I will never again be deeply wounded by my wife’s acts of aggression.



So think very carefully on that line in the sand. Is it the holiday? Is that where you start asserting and enforcing your boundaries? If I was as convinced as you are about what’s going to happen I wouldn’t go anyway. I’d enjoy myself in some other way.

A really big thing I discovered with boundaries is that they demonstrate a massive change in the person who asserts them. It is the most massive and rapid change possible.

Imagine a boy who gets bullied by the same boy on the way to school. This has been going on for six months. The next time the boy tries to bully him, the boy whacks him very hard on the nose. It’s what I did to my elder brother in our teens.

So when you assert your boundaries she will see you “instantly” as a changed man at the time you assert them. Keep your cool and observe how she responds. She will need time to adjust her behaviour to the “new assertive” person that you’ve become. It is up to her as to whether she continues with her dysfunctional behaviour or not. Either way it will tell you volumes about the type of person she is.


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## donny64

> If I just walk out as some have suggested then I really have taken out any shot at repairing the marriage.


That's where I think you're wrong. I think it is the ONLY SHOT YOU HAVE at repairing this. 

You need answers she is not giving you. She is showing a complete lack of respect and interest in working on this with you. You simply cannot battle that. This isn't some "guessing game" where you keep searching endlessley and hoping to stumble upon what it is that is upsetting her.

And you know what? SHE HONESTLY MAY HAVE NO DAMN IDEA WHY SHE'S LOST ATTRACTION AND RESPECT FOR YOU, and it baffles her, frustrates her and makes her angry for being stuck in this arrangement. All she may know is the attraction and respect for you is gone. She may not know or understand WHY it happened.

You really, really need to read up on this and find out why women lose respect and attraction for "nice guys". It is simply the way they are wired. They want someone they can respect. You gain that by respecting yourself first and foremost, and not putting up with those who do not respect you. "Nice guys" do not do that, and are treated like doormats. Quality women do not want a door mat. They will not respect a doormat. Bad / weak women will tolerate it for some other reason, but they also will not appreciate it. Like I told my son "Doormats attract dirt. Do not be a doormat".

Be the "good guy", not the "nice guy" or "bad boy". A "good guy" will have the best qualities of both of the other types, with hopefully none of the bad traits. He's a family man, treats his woman exceptionally well in his actions, and is faithful. But, like the "bad boy", he won't take any crap and will walk away or correct someone when he is not being treated right (and in the case of a "good guy" this means being treated equally well as you're treating your woman).

I would get to an attorney asap. Tell him about the financial and living situation, and that you're the primary care giver for the children. File for divorce and custody of the children. Have her served with the papers, then go completely cold on her. For a good long period of time until the divorce is either final, or she pulls her head outta her azz and actually makes you believe that she can again be someone you want to be involved with. If she doesn't, NOTHING IS LOST as you already do not have that.

You've made a lot of mistakes. None of them I can see are good cause for her to treat you this way, BUT they are a reason she's doing so. "Shoes out now"?!!!! Okay, at that instance those shoes should have been OUT THE DOOR....WITH YOUR FEET IN THEM. The lint and "visual aid" thing? She'd have immediately been given the "visual aid" of what it looks like for you to keep the lint trap hyper clean...by not doing HER LAUNDRY. See that pile of your dirty laundry piled up over there? There's your "visual aid" b*tch!

She sees you as beneath her because you haven't done the most important thing in your life....treat yourself right and demand the same of others. She's lost all respect for you, and my bet is it started years ago the first time she snapped at you over nonsense, you took it, and tried to apologize for something there was no need to apologize over. The snowball has just continued to gain size and speed since, and it's now a hurtling behemoth of suffocating destruction.

Unless there is something else at play here we don't know about, I'd say your only shot is to show her you FINALLY FOUND YOUR TESTICLES AND WILL NOT TOLERATE HER BEHAVIOR A SECOND LONGER. You ARE A MAN and a good one as evidenced by your efforts for your children and family. However she does not SEE YOU AS A MAN on a respect or attraction level. You are her personal assistant / maid, and it grates on her because her "maid" is trying to sleep with her, follow her on vacation with her gal pals, annoying her with your presence when she gets home, etc., etc., etc.

She gets away with that crap with you because SHE CAN and you allow it. She'll find out so quick it will make her head spin that a new man will not tolerate it. 

People like this understand one thing and one thing only...that is: they don't appreciate what they have until it is gone, and until it is taken from them, they won't appreciate it. So take it away from her. She needs to find appreciation and respect for you, or no amount of anything else you do will make a bit of difference. And this "take it away" mentality goes to all things. She complains at you over nothing or something silly? "Take away" her target and your affection. Walk away while she is in "mid-b*tch" instead of taking it and apologizing....and then watch her jaw drop. Then you demand an apology from her for talking to you like you were a child. She doesn't apologize....well then, we're not talking again....ever.

Listen dude, you tried the sensitive, caring, nice guy routine to try to get at the root of her issues. Not only has that NOT HELPED (you tried, she did not respond), it has made the issue WORSE.

She wants a man. Show her what the azz end of a man looks like when he's walking out the freakin' door.


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## donny64

By the way, I sound like a "hard azz", but I will ALWAYS try to talk to the W, let her know my thoughts and feelings, and try to get at the root of any issues when they come up. However, the second my thoughts or concerns are dismissed out of hand or in a disrespectful way (i.e. an eye roll, or "stop moping", or "you're acting like a child", etc.) I go immediately into another mode entirely. I don't do it to her, and I will not tolerate it from her. I don't yell, call names, or any such thing. I just correct her or remove myself from her presence until she comes back to me.

If you don't nip this disrespect, complacency, or taking someone for granted in the bud right from the start, and then stay consistent with it, it can and will snowball when you don't.


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## t_hopper_2012

I think you need to tell her that in order for you to remain in the marriage, her abuse has to stop. No more passive aggressive behavior, no more screaming at you like you're some sort of imbecile servant, no more silent treatment.

Tell her that the abuse has to stop right now. If it continues, you will not go to Maine. If it continues, you will have divorce papers ready and the locks changed when she returns from Maine. If she cons you into going to Maine (by being nice until you get there), you will leave her and the kids in Maine. Drive the car home. Take care of business (change locks, contact a lawyer) and then pick them up when the vacation ends.

As other posters have said, you've tried being a nice guy. It hasn't worked. 

Now, you don't have to be a jerk or an a**hole when you deliver this message. As a matter of fact, the calmer and cooler you are, the more effective it will be. 

The key to this whole thing, though, is that you REALLY have to be ready to leave. If you are wishy-washy or you waver when the tears start to flow; if you listen at all when she starts to tell you how it's all your fault, then you are done. She will know that she can get away with treating you like crap forEVER.

(By the way, if she tells you that divorce will be really hard on your kids, just tell her, calmly, that the example that is being set by the two of you in your marriage right now is much more harmful than divorce)

Be calm. Be strong. Be sure.


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## donny64

> As other posters have said, you've tried being a nice guy. It hasn't worked.
> 
> Now, you don't have to be a jerk or an a**hole when you deliver this message. As a matter of fact, the calmer and cooler you are, the more effective it will be.


Yes. Exactly this. Be calm and committed to your actions. This alone will throw her for a loop. She expects you to yell, whine, cry, beg, plead, apologize, etc. When you don't do that, and just have the calm demeanor of a determined man, she will take notice. Even if she does not show it on the outside, on the inside she will be like "WTF???"

I recently blew it over a problem with my W. She was 100 percent in the wrong, but I snapped. I yelled. First time ever with her. More than anything else, I regret that loss of control, and how she will view that. I have always been "the rock" in this relationship, and completely calm and in control. Those are attractive traits. Yelling, losing control, and letting emotions dictate your words is not so.

Like I try to teach my son...don't yell. Don't be an azzhole. Don't be mean. Just get your message across in a calm, determined manner, and then stand behind your message. If they don't respond, then you walk away....in a calm, controlled manner.


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## t_hopper_2012

Oops, I should have re-read the start of the thread before posting.

Of course you can't change the locks. It's her house. So, take what I said before and substitute "move my stuff out of the house" for "change the locks".

(You probably also don't want to drive off and leave them in Maine. She'd bring up "abandonment" in the divorce proceedings.)

Another thought. Why are you working 3rd shift? I know it's more $$$, but it ensures that you've got much less quality time together as a family. Also, if you do decide to move ahead with separation and divorce, I would think that 3rd shift would work against you when it comes to custody.

Time to move to 1st shift, ASAP. When you wife asks "why" tell her that either a) the marriage works out and then you have more quality time as a family or b) the marriage doesn't and you'll be able to split custody of your son. 

Of course, you will tell her this in a calm, cool fashion.


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## Bravo2.0

Well, my intent was to discuss things with my wife last night but she wound up going out to take the oldest to a friends house then came home and went to bed but that kind of brought things to a head as I was awoken at 4AM to pillows being slammed for about 20 minutes, then she got up slammed the bedroom door and then the bathroom door and repeated this as she came back into the room and started slamming her pillows again.

I asked her, "Why are you slamming stuff at this hour?" She, couldn't sleep and then it was my snoring keeping her from going back to sleep. I asked her, "Is this anyway to act though, I mean slamming stuff around?" "Whatever" was her response.... My snoring, this was the first I ever heard it as an issue. To me, if you're looking for faults, you'll find them and if they suit your needs, it's as a reason to blame me that she couldn't go back to sleep... She has trouble sleeping and she has been to the doctors numerous times in the last couple of months about it but this sin't the firt time I have been awaken to the pillow slamming. I need one those sleep number beds so I don't have to feel that...

So I waited until she got up and then I confronted her that I am not going to tolerate the silent treatment anymore. I am not going to tolerate be ignored, kept at a distance, treated like I am nobody and I am no longer going to tolerate her withdrawal of sex. I said it calmly and with conviction. 

Her response was, she wasn't looking for an argument today. I told her I wasn't here to argue, I was here to say I'm not taking it anymore and that's that. Once I said that, she brought up everything she thinks I did wrong since we've been married. Was she pushing my buttons? Shifting the conversation back onto me?

I told her, "I wasn't here to listen to anything I may or may not have done wrong since we've been married, I'm here to say once again I am not going to tolerate being mistreated. If you can't forgive things from the past then that's not on me. I don't hold any grudges against you for things I think you did wrong to me since we've been married."

Then she brought out her biggest issue, the finances. I cannot repeat it enough, she has money, lots of it, She makes more than I do. She said we were supposed to sit down and go over the finances and yes we were but when I went to her about the finances so we could discuss it, she said she was tired and then I asked about the next day and she said she had plans to go out. I also, went to her again (not about the finances but in more about the silent treatment) where I asked a bunch of questions in regards to is there anything I can improve on etc., and I got stonewalled. So in my mind I made two attempts and yet she said I never came back to her about the finances...

For a refresher course because I didn't look back upthread at all of my posts. Money is a BIG deal. It is in every relationship. It's her house. She got 500k from selling her mother's house and another 500k in investments as an inheritance. I don't know how much her father left her. So let's just stick with the known million in the bank and the fact this is her house. When we got married we decided upon a figure I would pay towards the household bills. This was supposed to be a big enough contribution to the family household, thru the years more bills were pushed my way so my amount has increased. 

I have reached a point where I no longer can go any higher in what I pay her. Yet, she wants more. This has always been at the root of many of our arguments, her wanting more. But when I see her buy a jeep in March no problem or have hardwood flooring installed in all of the rooms, have the basement done completely over. however she wants to spend, she can but if a utility bill comes in she freaks out that it's past due and screams she can't afford it and I'm sitting ticking off all of things she has spent her money on, I'm thinking to myself, "Maybe you shouldn't have bought the jeep?"

I mean why am I going to vounteer more after I see how she spends on herself or on house improvements? I've been trying to save for a car. I drive a 1997 chevy pickup. If I give her more, I can't afford a car and I need one to commute to work. And as I said in my very first post, the two oldest kids are hers from a previous marriage and the ex pays her child support, so there's another source of income for her.

So for me the finances get a little sticky when you think she owns the house, she's getting child support, she's getting money from me. She can spend on herself but the household expenses, well that has to be split right down the middle, which will not work for me and she knew that before we even decided to get married.

To get back to the original thought of this post, I'm making my case for how I won't tolerate being mistreated and she goes for the big guns of the finances. I reiterated I would be more than happy to revisit the finance issue. But I want to make it clear I am not going to do anything until the silent treatments stop and all of the other crap stops. Period.

I brought up the analogy of the bully and told her that I cannot accept being punched in the face everyday she comes home from work. I'm done being treated this way. She asked, "What does all of that mean? What are you going to do?" I said, "I am not going to live my life like this anymore. I will leave. In fact, I cannot bring myself to go on vacation with you, the kids and your gal-pals under the current circumstances. Why would I put myself through that?"

At that point she said she had to go to work. She didn't say she would change. She didn't say she would stop. Nothing. At the very least she now knows where I stand and what the consequences are if it continues. I actually thought she would say, "Go ahead and leave then." but she didn't and I'm here watching the kids. So it seems things haven't changed, yet.

And to answer your question T Hopper about me working nights, I am a printer and the production is all run at night as programmers submit the jobs during the day. Working the three overnights helped because I am able to watch the kids. When I first met my wife her two kids were in daycare, which she had to pay, with me home she was able to pull them from daycare and I am around to take the kids to their after school activities. I understand that in a relationship it may have it's drawbacks but that wasn't an issue before and she has never raised it as an issue.


----------



## t_hopper_2012

I see how your profession makes working nights a necessity, but I think that it hurts you in the end. (Less time a a couple/family. Tough situation for you when custody is decided - if it comes to that).

I believe that she sees you less as a husband and more as a tool or convenience. You are handy because you take care of the kids. (Somebody she trusts, plus it's free ... double win for her). You help out HER cash flow because you pay a bunch of the bills.

Do you guys ever have any good time together as a couple? If so, when was the last time?

The power situation in your marriage is way out of whack. I can't imagine marrying somebody and not being open and fair about financial issues. She seems to want to just keep sticking it to you.

I don't know when your trip to Maine is planned, but this may be your Rubicon. Stick to your guns. Tell her that you won't go to Maine unless she makes a firm commitment to stop the abuse (abuse stops, finances are equalized, you two go to marriage counseling for at least a year). If you don't get commitment on all points, you are a) not going to Maine and b) filing for divorce while she is gone.

Tell her you are doing this for the health of the marriage and in order to create a better relationship for the two of you - and a better environment in which to raise your children.

Tell her all of this in a calm, cool fashion. When she baits you (and she will), don't engage. Be a cool fish - don't take the bait.


----------



## AFEH

She’s massively aggressive. But in a covert way in that she’s not actually pummelling you with her fists.

She is seriously and deeply shet testing you. Probably because you’ve failed her fitness tests and she wants you out and gone.

No man with any self-respect, self-esteem or healthy boundaries would tolerate what you are tolerating.

The question to ask yourself is “Is it worth it?”. If it is, you’ll stay. If it isn’t you’ll leave. Go see a lawyer and see what’s what wrt money and divorce. See what your options are.

You are a financial dependent. As an adult that is not the way to live a healthy life.


----------



## turnera

Bravo2.0 said:


> She still hasn't spoken to me since March 20th - unless it involves the kids


You mean she physically hasn't spoken to you, or she hasn't spoken to you about the relationship?


----------



## turnera

Bravo2.0 said:


> Her father was an alcholic. He *worked nights*.


Well, there you go. 

You have become her father, who she hates.

Plus, you are in MAJOR Beta Man stage.

Have you read No More Mr Nice Guy?


----------



## turnera

Bravo2.0 said:


> if I go on this vacation and vacations are supposed to be fun, but it just turns out that the treatment is the same just a different venue I will be spending a week in hell. If I tell her I am not going unless she ends the silent treatment am I standing my ground, setting a boundary? I ask because I know it's going to be thrown in my face that this is a family vacation and I am letting the kids down.


I see things you can do here that will benefit you personally.

One, go and if she pulls the 'I'm going out with the girls' card, you just pack up your stuff and get a plane home. Leave her there with the kids so she'll have to shuffle plans. It will teach her (a little bit - but this is a marathon, not a sprint) to stop disrespecting you.

Two, if she does the silent treatment etc, just cut her out of ALL PLANS. Make plans with your kids and pretend she's not there. That way, she will have to scramble to be included and she'll get a feel for what she's doing to you. SHE will become the outsider, not you. You have control over this, Bravo - take control.


----------



## turnera

If I were you, I would demand that she start going to therapy. SHE is the problem in your marriage, not you, so it should be HER who gets help. Remember, though, that if she IS bipolar, you can't expect much improvement in her. You'd have to erect HUGE HUGE boundaries, for the rest of your life, cos she ain't gonna get better.

But good for you for standing up to her. Now expect the push back. She's spending ALL DAY today figuring out her ammunition to get you back under control. She will come at you with guns a'blazing. You may want to get the kids to your mom's house for the night just in case.

Spend today figuring out what your boundaries are. Write them out on a poster board and hang it up (make a spare, she'll rip that one up); keep a copy in your pocket to refer to. When she starts spewing at you, point to the list and say 'are you willing to adhere to this? If not, I'll contact a lawyer tomorrow.'

Say NOTHING ELSE. Talk ONLY about your boundaries. When she tries to deflect back onto how much of an ogre you are, either bring up the boundaries and ask if she's gonna adhere to them, or say 'You're free to move on.' Don't let her tell you that YOU have to get out. She may own the house, but you're married. She can't kick you out of your home.


----------



## Runs like Dog

I figured she's the child of one or two alcoholics. Classic control aggression repulsion behavior. She also has a bit of the dry drunk in her. 

The question you might want to ask yourself is whether the 'why' is that important. To me. it's not. A more important question is how to change or redirect all that misdirected rage and fury. Because for all the the seething anger she expresses at you, she hates herself more, MUCH more.


----------



## Navygirl

It sounds like you are doing ALOT to help out around the house. Since this attitude and behavior started get worse in the last month she might be going through some stuff at work. We are supposed to leave our home and home and our work at work, but that is never the case. In her mind, you work 3 days a week and get to play with the kids all day. If she is going through a tough time at work, she could be holding a deep resentment towards you and the amount of time that you work. Is that right? No, not at all, but nothing will get fixed if you do not try and put yourself in her shoes. I am a silent treatment kind of a girl too, and it pisses the Sh*t out of my husband. That is just how I react to an argument. I do not know how to communicate when I am stressed and upset. I found that writing out my feeling in a letter format helps express where I am at. So we are trying that method. 

SEX 3 times since February!!! That is insane! Is there a way that you can take a vacation together to re-unite that spark? It might help to pull her away from the stress she is feeling at home and at work. Just a thought.


----------



## turnera

My first guess is that now that she got promoted, either someone is hitting on her and she accepted the advances (the BS usually plummets in the other spouse's eyes when this happens), or else the job is turning out to be horrible.

Do you guys talk about her job?


----------



## Bravo2.0

t_hopper_2012 said:


> Do you guys ever have any good time together as a couple? If so, when was the last time?
> 
> I don't know when your trip to Maine is planned, but this may be your Rubicon. Stick to your guns. Tell her that you won't go to Maine unless she makes a firm commitment to stop the abuse (abuse stops, finances are equalized, you two go to marriage counseling for at least a year). If you don't get commitment on all points, you are a) not going to Maine and b) filing for divorce while she is gone.


To the first question, our last real date alone was back in March, before the shut down. We went out for dinner and a movie. It was nice. We've had some nights out recently but with the kids but still some good times but when we get home, she tucks the blanket underneath her. Not saying we should have sex every time we go out but when you're laying there and you see this, it hurts because you know she doesn't want you near her or at least doesn't want to be intimate.

We are supposed to leave for Maine this Saturday. I have no plans on going. She has invited at least 4 different girlfriends and maybe a 5th. So if they each stay a night, that's 4 nights we don't have alone time. I don't mind that she invited her friends but I think she went a little overboard on the invites.


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## Bravo2.0

turnera said:


> You mean she physically hasn't spoken to you, or she hasn't spoken to you about the relationship?


Both. Unless it involves me having to pick up or drop off one of the kids she has to tell me where and when. Mostly, the kids will tell me where they need to go. Other than that, I can sit there in the room with her try to talk about the weather or about a movie or about her day at work or about us, she doesn't talk. I might get a few grunts and groans but that's about it.


----------



## Bravo2.0

turnera said:


> But good for you for standing up to her. Now expect the push back. She's spending ALL DAY today figuring out her ammunition to get you back under control. She will come at you with guns a'blazing. You may want to get the kids to your mom's house for the night just in case.
> 
> Spend today figuring out what your boundaries are. Write them out on a poster board and hang it up (make a spare, she'll rip that one up); keep a copy in your pocket to refer to. When she starts spewing at you, point to the list and say 'are you willing to adhere to this? If not, I'll contact a lawyer tomorrow.'
> 
> Say NOTHING ELSE. Talk ONLY about your boundaries. When she tries to deflect back onto how much of an ogre you are, either bring up the boundaries and ask if she's gonna adhere to them, or say 'You're free to move on.' Don't let her tell you that YOU have to get out. She may own the house, but you're married. She can't kick you out of your home.


I just found from the kids, a girlfriend is coming by to pick them up to bring them to her house for dinner. They said, "Mom needs to talk to me." So she has thought about this all day...


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## Bravo2.0

Runs like Dog said:


> I figured she's the child of one or two alcoholics. Classic control aggression repulsion behavior. She also has a bit of the dry drunk in her.
> 
> The question you might want to ask yourself is whether the 'why' is that important. To me. it's not. A more important question is how to change or redirect all that misdirected rage and fury. Because for all the the seething anger she expresses at you, she hates herself more, MUCH more.


But this is on her to change right? How can I redirect the anger?


----------



## Bravo2.0

Navygirl said:


> It sounds like you are doing ALOT to help out around the house. Since this attitude and behavior started get worse in the last month she might be going through some stuff at work. We are supposed to leave our home and home and our work at work, but that is never the case. In her mind, you work 3 days a week and get to play with the kids all day. If she is going through a tough time at work, she could be holding a deep resentment towards you and the amount of time that you work. Is that right? No, not at all, but nothing will get fixed if you do not try and put yourself in her shoes. I am a silent treatment kind of a girl too, and it pisses the Sh*t out of my husband. That is just how I react to an argument. I do not know how to communicate when I am stressed and upset. I found that writing out my feeling in a letter format helps express where I am at. So we are trying that method.
> 
> SEX 3 times since February!!! That is insane! Is there a way that you can take a vacation together to re-unite that spark? It might help to pull her away from the stress she is feeling at home and at work. Just a thought.


We work the same amount of hours and my commute is much longer than hers (an hour for me 15 minutes for her) so it's not like she is working more than me.

If she's holding deep resentment towards me over the fact that I am home with the kids, then she is thinking that being home is a breeze. So for all those stay at home Mom's out there life is a breeze?

Sex only once since february. This vacation upcoming could have been that but she figured she'd invite her girlfriends. If she wanted the spark to come back, don't invite so many friends on our vacation.


----------



## Bravo2.0

turnera said:


> My first guess is that now that she got promoted, either someone is hitting on her and she accepted the advances (the BS usually plummets in the other spouse's eyes when this happens), or else the job is turning out to be horrible.
> 
> Do you guys talk about her job?


It's a small company, maybe 25 people in her office. Only five of which are men, all married. 

I try to get her to talk about her work day but to no avail. I might get, "Same ****, different day." Before the shut down, when should would come home and I would ask her about her day, she would say it sucked. it was horrible. etc., never say she had a great day. The oldest also tries and is told she hates her job. Yet, when we were in MC, she tells the MC, she LOVES her job. I was shocked! Here she is telling us at home how ****ty it is now she's telling the MC she LOVES her job. It was an outright lie.

She told me this morning she hates coming home. So now she hates her job and hates coming home? Sounds like she's angry with everything in her life.

And just so folks understand, it is not just me who get this angry person when they come home from work bullcrap. The kids get it a lot as well. Heck, the oldest went to her one night and asked her why she was so angry when she comes home every night. At some point during that conversation she told the oldest she could get the hell out. The kid was texting me all night and summed up in one text what I feel and what we all feel, "Mom is mean. Mom is denial that she is angry. She treats us like crap. Is in denial about that too. Then she feels unappreciated and no matter what we do to make her happy, she still finds something to be pissed about. She makes me feel unwanted" It's so true. That's how I feel.

Oh well, I better get ready for her coming home from work soon. I have a feeling this is going to be rough.


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## t_hopper_2012

So, it's quite possible that she's arranged girl friends to accompany her almost every night of the vacation. Assuring that the two of you won't have "couple time" to spend together in Maine. No walks on the beach (or in the woods, depending on where you are) or going out for a date to get lobster rolls.

She's thinking 100% about herself and 0% about you - unless it's how to avoid you.


----------



## Bravo2.0

t_hopper_2012 said:


> So, it's quite possible that she's arranged girl friends to accompany her almost every night of the vacation. Assuring that the two of you won't have "couple time" to spend together in Maine. No walks on the beach (or in the woods, depending on where you are) or going out for a date to get lobster rolls.
> 
> She's thinking 100% about herself and 0% about you - unless it's how to avoid you.


That's exactly how I view it, she has made sure there is no alone time for us. Whereas, it could have possibly been a great time for walks on the beach, going to the sites etc.,

She started walking for excercise back in April, she asked me many times to go along and I would, only to find out one of her girlfriends was waiting for us. Another opportunity at being alone in the woods on our walks to talk, to enjoy each others company but no a friend had to come along.


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## turnera

Bravo2.0 said:


> I just found from the kids, a girlfriend is coming by to pick them up to bring them to her house for dinner. They said, "Mom needs to talk to me." So she has thought about this all day...


Write down a cheat sheet. You're a NG - you're gonna need it, or she'll have you on your knees kissing the hem of her skirt and asking for forgiveness for your insolence.

OH, and go get a recorder before you meet up with her and RECORD the conversation! Please!


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## turnera

Bravo2.0 said:


> But this is on her to change right? How can I redirect the anger?


 You can't redirect anyone else's anything. 

All you can do is KNOW WHAT YOU WILL ACCEPT. 

*Boundaries Lesson One:*
If she raises her voice, you hold up your hand and say "I won't discuss this if you raise your voice." 

If she ignores you and yells anyway, you hold up your hand again, say 'We'll talk about this when you can remain calm' and you go into the bedroom. 

If she follows you into the bedroom and starts yelling again, you just get up, take the car keys out of your pocket, and drive away. 

You cool off and come back a half hour later. If she's waiting to pounce on you and starts yelling again, you turn right back around, without a word, and drive away. If she tries to get behind the car (probably will), you get out without a word, and start walking down the street. If she tries to hit you or scream rape or whatever, you immediately call 911 and ask the police to come. Don't say a word to her!

If she somehow doesn't raise it to this level, you go away for 2 hours and come back. If she's ready to talk then, go ahead and talk. If she's still yelling, you get back in the car and go stay at a hotel. 

You come back the next morning. Rinse and repeat. Each time she crosses your boundary, you up the ante and stay away longer and longer. If it happens again, you stay at a friend's house for a week. If she STILL can't talk without screaming, you file for divorce.

That's how you use a boundary and consequence. And by all means, keep that recorder going! (have spare batteries in your pocket)


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## Bravo2.0

turnera said:


> Write down a cheat sheet. You're a NG - you're gonna need it, or she'll have you on your knees kissing the hem of her skirt and asking for forgiveness for your insolence.
> 
> OH, and go get a recorder before you meet up with her and RECORD the conversation! Please!


My gut feeling is, she's afraid I will stick to my guns about not going on vacation with her. I say this because of all the recent partys we have been to or other events for the kids where she makes sure I go even though she doesn't talk to me. This is the first time that I have balked and spoke up and said, "I don't think I should be going because you treat me like crap at home, what would be different being on vacation?" Like with the partys, no one likes to go alone. No one wants to explain why there husband chose not to come. Unless she has all her friends on board with the way she treats me, she will be explaining why I didn't come.

That's what my gut says but I could be completely wrong, she could be coming home to use the phrase, "Kiss her hem." by the time we are done talking or she could be coming home to ask me to leave. I'm sure standing up to her this morning has had her wheels turning all day and who knows if I pushed back hard enough that she may have decided she doesn't want there to be an us anymore. By shocking the system I'm sure I have changed the dynamic.


----------



## turnera

t_hopper_2012 said:


> So, it's quite possible that she's arranged girl friends to accompany her almost every night of the vacation. Assuring that the two of you won't have "couple time" to spend together in Maine. No walks on the beach (or in the woods, depending on where you are) or going out for a date to get lobster rolls.
> 
> She's thinking 100% about herself and 0% about you - unless it's how to avoid you.


 Well, if for some reason you DO go, make sure she has no access to any of your money. If she wants to act single, she can damn well pay for it herself.


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## turnera

Bravo2.0 said:


> By shocking the system I'm sure I have changed the dynamic.


I'm sure you did. Which is why you have to figure out NOW what your boundaries are: 
no yelling
no blaming
no treating kids like crap
SF once a week
working in MC WITHOUT lying (cos I'll call you out on it)

stuff like that

Get that cheat sheet done so you don't back down.


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## turnera

Do you have a recorder?


----------



## turnera

And whatever you do, DO NOT MOVE OUT OF THE HOUSE!


----------



## Bravo2.0

turnera said:


> Do you have a recorder?


Yes. and what's SF on the cheat sheet stand for?


----------



## turnera

sexual fulfillment

What happened?


----------



## Bravo2.0

Well, I stood my ground over all the mistreatment I receive. She of course started bringing things up from as far back as 6 years ago. I told her whatever she thinks I have done wrong is no reason to treat me the way she does. Holding things in from 6 years ago doesn't help either of us.

She went on to say that she thinks her life is ****ty. I asked her what she was comparing it too? What were her expectations? What does she thinks would improve her life? She didn't know what her expectations were or how to improve her life. It was a woe is me thing but if she feels that way, it must be real to her. So I can't dismiss it. I tried to remind her that she had three beautiful kids and a guy who cares about her, a wonderful home etc., none of that mattered, she still feels the same way.

We got to the core of her issue, the budget. We went over the budget and to her surprise, I pay more than she does... She want's to start a slush fund that we each put $200.00 bucks a month in for misc. expenses. I kind of balked at that because finiancially I would become dependent on her but we are still negotiating that one.

I didn't budge on any of my issues and how I was going to leave if she kept it up but I didn't get any clear answers from her if this was going to end. We went out for dinner afterwards and enjoyed each others company. No sex to finish off the evening.

She really, really wants me to go with her on vacation though. She made that clear during our negotiations. I told her I better not find myself babysitting or under the silent treatment or I will leave. She said she wants to enjoy the vacation with me. So, we will see how it goes.

Punching the bully in the face had a bigger impact than I thought. Now the key is to keep pressing home that we need to work together and not have her use those passive/aggressive techniques on me anymore.

In summary, I view that we are still in the negotiation phase because there wasn't any way we could cover all the issues last night. We still need to talk about going back to marriage counseling and we still need to work out more on the budget but overall, I think things went pretty well.


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## turnera

You need to pay a CPA to help you come up with a budget. That way, a professional has verified it's logical and fruitful and she won't be able to argue her way out of it, once she starts spending more than her 'slush fund' pays her.

Are you reading up on Nice Guy?


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## Bravo2.0

turnera said:


> You need to pay a CPA to help you come up with a budget. That way, a professional has verified it's logical and fruitful and she won't be able to argue her way out of it, once she starts spending more than her 'slush fund' pays her.
> 
> Are you reading up on Nice Guy?


I agree about the CPA if only to keep things equal but I am leery of putting more money into another account.

And yes I read the entire Nice Guy thread.


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## turnera

No, I mean the book No More Mr Nice Guy. And also Hold On To Your N.U.T.S. (from Help for Men, Mentor for Men, Men's Groups, Relationship Advice, Life Coach).


----------



## turnera

Bravo2.0 said:


> I agree about the CPA if only to keep things equal but I am leery of putting more money into another account.


 Well, I don't want you giving her more money, either, but you're a doormat, and you won't be able to stand up to her for very long without caving.

Unless you get some therapy and learn how to stop being a NG.


----------



## AFEH

Bravo2.0 said:


> Well, I stood my ground over all the mistreatment I receive. She of course started bringing things up from as far back as 6 years ago. I told her whatever she thinks I have done wrong is no reason to treat me the way she does. *Holding things in from 6 years ago doesn't help either of us.
> *
> She went on to say that she thinks her life is ****ty. I asked her what she was comparing it too? What were her expectations? What does she thinks would improve her life? She didn't know what her expectations were or how to improve her life. It was a woe is me thing but if she feels that way, it must be real to her. So I can't dismiss it. I tried to remind her that she had three beautiful kids and a guy who cares about her, a wonderful home etc., none of that mattered, she still feels the same way.
> 
> We got to the core of her issue, the budget. We went over the budget and to her surprise, I pay more than she does... She want's to start a slush fund that we each put $200.00 bucks a month in for misc. expenses. I kind of balked at that because finiancially I would become dependent on her but we are still negotiating that one.
> 
> I didn't budge on any of my issues and how I was going to leave if she kept it up but I didn't get any clear answers from her if this was going to end. We went out for dinner afterwards and enjoyed each others company. No sex to finish off the evening.
> 
> She really, really wants me to go with her on vacation though. She made that clear during our negotiations. I told her I better not find myself babysitting or under the silent treatment or I will leave. She said she wants to enjoy the vacation with me. So, we will see how it goes.
> 
> Punching the bully in the face had a bigger impact than I thought. Now the key is to keep pressing home that we need to work together and not have her use those passive/aggressive techniques on me anymore.
> 
> In summary, I view that we are still in the negotiation phase because there wasn't any way we could cover all the issues last night. We still need to talk about going back to marriage counseling and we still need to work out more on the budget but overall, I think things went pretty well.


Believe me it seriously helps your wife. That’s what it’s designed for.

Some women hold onto their anger and hatred for use in later years, just like your wife. And then they shet test you with it. The test for you is how well you handle it, or not. It’s an exceedingly cunning way of putting the guy off balance, of shifting the blame and taking the focus right off of their behaviour and onto their husband’s behaviour. It seems to matter not that his behaviour was six, sixteen or twenty-six years in the past. Some women should be courtroom lawyers.

These resentment shet tests are designed to wound, blame shift, unbalance you so it’s all about you and not about them. It’s to make you out the bad guy and her the persecuted victim of a woman. It’s nightmare stuff for a man.

You seem to be doing better, well done.


----------



## fun4drew

It's time to go.


----------



## Bravo2.0

It's a bit humiliating to be back with tales of woe but here I am...



For those that gave advice and input I appreciate it very much. If you read the thread and are now familiar with the issues my wife and I have, I will tell you it's one frustrating thing to ever after go through (silent treatments, withholding of sex etc.,) Ok, so I made my stand back in June that I would not tolerate her behavior towards me and I would not tolerate the no sex issue anymore or I would leave.



It's now August 13th and we still haven't had sex. I do not get it at all? The most recent adventure in the life and times of me was last week she shot me a text at work on Tuesday night asking if I would go to the beach with her and the kids on Wednesday. I told her I would go. As it turned out, she took the rest of the week off to coincide with my days off. I shot her back a text asking to make sure none of the kids slept on the couch so that when I got home from work that night, I could just sleep on the couch instead of waking her up in the middle of the night. She sent a text back telling me to crawl into bed with her. Now, for a guy, that's an invite but as it turned out it was not as she told me in bed we are getting up early so sex.



Thursday we went to a different beach and I thought Thursday night we would have sex, I went up to bed before her to make sure I was in bed when she came up. Well, she waited on coming up to bed for a couple of hours, meanwhile I fell asleep. No sex again. Friday morning I made an advance and was told we have to be up soon so no sex. I thought for sure Friday night it would finally happen. We spent all day Friday and Friday night at an amusement park, we had a blast. When we went up to bed, I put my arm on hers and she spun around so now her back was facing me and moved to the edge of the bed. Shot down again.



One would think, I do anyway, if she took the time off to coincide with my days off so we could have some summer fun, it would also include sex, especially when she made it a point for me to come crawl into bed with her. So it sounds like she wants to spend time with me, sounds like she wants me to sleep with her but in the end it was the same stuff I have been dealing with for so long now it's become second nature.



I got up and out of bed because I was so frustrated about the whole sex issue. I stayed up late. I finally went up to bed and when I awoke, I woke up late, only the oldest daughter was home. My wife took the younger two to a fair. She told the oldest, if I am not up then I obviously do not want to be with them. Yet, the previous Saturday I was up bright and early, she sat in the entire day and night in her pj's watching lifetime tv. So sleeping in is different? Especially when she knows why I went to sleep late.



I just don't get the whole non-sex issue. She hasn't expressed that there is anything physical going on so I am left with pure frustration. I read on some web site about the issue where sex is 10% of a normal relationship but when sex stops, it become 90% because the partner on the outs, me, spends his time worrying, wondering why the sex has stopped and she probably puts as much energy into withholding sex.



I made it very clear in my stand to her that this was one area that she needed to stop but she continues to withhold and I just can't figure out why. The whole idea of withholding sex seems counter-productive to me as it puts me in a bad mood and makes me not want to do things for her. Her anger and resentment towards me was the budget but when we sat down and did the budget and showed her I actually pay more than she does, into a house I don't own, two kids who are not mine that I have been watching since we have been together saving her money on day care. She has more money than most sitting in the bank so the budget doesn't seem like it should be an issue at all. I get that I should pay my fair share but I think I pay more than my share but that's irrelevant, I'm not angry about it.



Just pointing out that if she is angry and resentful towards me about the budget and decided to withhold sex, then after we talk and work on the budget, hopefully working out that anger and resentment. I asked if she thought I had any performance issues that I need to work on? She stated very clearly I was great in bed with her.



I'm at my wits end. I've endured months of silent treatments, she distanced herself from me, ignored I even existed, when we finally sit down to discuss all of this she agrees to stop treating me this way and agrees to ending the withholding of sex but here I am nearly two months after making my stand and still no sex. It's very frustrating. Almost seems like a game. A game I don't know the rules to.



So I'm perplexed as to what exactly the issue is? She isn't cheating. I've made sure of that. She took time off to be with me. She told me to crawl into bed with her but still no sex. I'm lost.


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## turnera

And you still haven't read the books, have you?


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## Bravo2.0

turnera said:


> And you still haven't read the books, have you?


No. I'm delusional thinking I can solve this myself.


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## turnera

Bravo2.0 said:


> No. I'm delusional thinking I can solve this myself.


Yep. No sympathy here, if you won't even take the advice you came here for. It's pretty simple to just read a damn book. And it's suggested for a reason - it educates you on what to do.


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## AFEH

While you are in “her” house, you are a dependent, but I think in your case your situation is far worse than a rent paying lodger.

As a dependent you get what you’re given, nothing more and nothing less. As what sounds like a disliked and disrespected dependent, all you are getting is crumbs from the table, if that. You’ve a roof over your head, a place to eat and sleep and you want sex as well!

Plus in addition to all that she sounds like a passive aggressive. She keeps wounding you and you go back for more, which means she gets her PA needs well and truly met.

Your levels of patience and tolerance are exceedingly high and it’s that which is enabling her abuse of you to continue. You are the enabler of your wife’s abuse, simply by being there and tolerating it.

Grow some and leave her and make absolutely certain, make a lifetime goal to get your own home or else all you will get is more of the same. You know that now.


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## RDL

You may be surprised to find that your behavior is enabling hers. Your weak response and half hearted "stand" are not doing you any services. 

The pattern on your side looks like a deep case of nice guy. 

I suggest you read Robert Glover - No more mister nice guy for insight on your situation. You will be surprised by what you find.


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## turnera

FreedomCorp said:


> You may be surprised to find that your behavior is enabling hers. Your weak response and half hearted "stand" are not doing you any services.
> 
> The pattern on your side looks like a deep case of nice guy.
> 
> I suggest you read Robert Glover - No more mister nice guy for insight on your situation. You will be surprised by what you find.


Yeah, that's what I told him to do 2 months ago. Still hasn't read it.


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## RDL

Good call


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## AFEH

turnera said:


> Yeah, that's what I told him to do 2 months ago. Still hasn't read it.


The OP is blind to his duplicity or he's in denial.


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## Bravo2.0

turnera said:


> Yep. No sympathy here, if you won't even take the advice you came here for. It's pretty simple to just read a damn book. And it's suggested for a reason - it educates you on what to do.


OK, I bought the book last night, got online version and the paperback.

I wasn't trying to be sarcastic with my response about being delusional. We, as humans, think we are intelligent enough to solve our own problems. An example is if you're at work and you are tasked with a project, you figure out how to get it done. Yet, in personal issues it becomes much more clouded and confused because you are part of the problem. So it makes it more difficult to find your way through the maze to get the result you are looking for.

Just perusing through the book, I already see a lot of issues I face as a "Nice Guy" I avoid conflict. When I made my stand back at the end of June, I thought she would keep up her end of the bargain and when she didn't I didn't follow up and confront her on it. My fault.

I can see where my actions lead me to become her doormat. I try so hard to please her. I do more than I should or I make projects to make the house look nicer but she doesn't even aknowledge what I've done. The kids will say, "That looks awesome!" but from her there isn't even the recognition I've done anything at all. And that pretty much sums it up but stupid me thinks, "What id I do __________ that should make her happy." And of course it doesn't which just leaves me feeling resentful. So I keep trying to make her happy at the expense of my own happiness and no matter what I do it, it doesn't make her "happy"...

I guess that is why I have so much trouble understanding the dynamics of my earlier post about us spending time together last week and me expecting at least one night to end up having sex together? This is where you think you can figure things out on your own. There must be a reason x, y, z that prevents her from having/wanting sex? Sex is not going to happen because she knows she can keep pushing me and I will not confront her right there and then in bed with just a simple "Why not?" Instead, I get out of bed.

I keep thinking I'll show her by not cleaning the house, not going to the dump, not doing dishes, not mowing the lawn etc., etc., but I always end up doing it because I don't want to give her another reason to be angry. When in fact, whether I do those things or not, she's still angry. So I'm in a lose, lose situation.

I thought being a nice guy people would appreciate the things you do for them but the reality is, they come to expect it without having to do anything in return to get you to keep doing nice things for them.

Change is one of the most difficult things we face. People don't like to change. Yet facing up to the fact that things need to change or I will keep on living the nightmare that has become my life, it's a difficult reality when you realize you need to change.


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## turnera

Bravo2.0 said:


> I do more than I should or I make projects to make the house look nicer but she doesn't even aknowledge what I've done.


You also need to educate yourself on love languages. My love language is acts of service - I feel loved if my husband keeps my house taken care of. My husband's love language is gifts - he wants me to buy him stuff. So he buys me stuff because that's what HE would want. And I used to buy him tools, so he would fix the house. Neither of us was happy OR impressed. When I learned about love languages, I stopped giving him tools and started buying him cologne and clothes; he's happy as a clam. I still have to fight to get him to do any work on the house, though.


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