# Should I catch them in the act or get more evidence?



## jay20 (Oct 31, 2019)

I've suspected of an affair for sometime with her co-worker but I believe my wife is a covert narcissist and is gas lighting me.
Monday night I notice that she shaved and also just came off her period. Tuesday she oddly had a shower right after work when I took my kids for a bike ride. When I noticed she said it's because she wasn't feeling well and pooped her pants a bit during a walk at lunch time. She told me not to bring it up again and that she had to throw her underwear out. Right after supper she did laundry which also seemed odd. I checked all the garbage's and no underwear. The next morning I noticed stained underwear hanging to dry. The stain was in the front not the back and looked more like blood stains.

So I turned on google maps tracking but I couldn't find yesterdays history. It's just blank. So this morning I added myself to her shared google maps location and can see her location in with some lag at times. I don't know where the co-corker lives but it's very near their work. They get 1 hour lunch breaks and he goes home everyday. 

Should I try and catch them at lunch break or wait for more evidence. I'm pretty certain she will deny it unless I have lots of evidence.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Sounds like time for a PI.


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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

jay20 said:


> I've suspected of an affair for sometime with her co-worker but I believe my wife is a covert narcissist and is gas lighting me.
> Monday night I notice that she shaved and also just came off her period. Tuesday she oddly had a shower right after work when I took my kids for a bike ride. When I noticed she said it's because she wasn't feeling well and pooped her pants a bit during a walk at lunch time. She told me not to bring it up again and that she had to throw her underwear out. Right after supper she did laundry which also seemed odd. I checked all the garbage's and no underwear. The next morning I noticed stained underwear hanging to dry. The stain was in the front not the back and looked more like blood stains.
> 
> So I turned on google maps tracking but I couldn't find yesterdays history. It's just blank. So this morning I added myself to her shared google maps location and can see her location in with some lag at times. I don't know where the co-corker lives but it's very near their work. They get 1 hour lunch breaks and he goes home everyday.
> ...


When I was working I often used to go to lunch with a female co-worker. We were both married and there was nothing going on between us.
It could be that your wife and her co-worker are simply having lunch together and no more than that.
Very easy to find out, why not turn up at her workplace during lunchtime unexpected. Without her seeing you watch for her to leave the building and with whom and follow them.
If you don`t see her ask one of her co-workers where she is.


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## Indian_Nerd_Dad (Dec 23, 2021)

jay20 said:


> Should I try and catch them at lunch break or wait for more evidence. I'm pretty certain she will deny it unless I have lots of evidence.


Having evidence is good, particularly if you live in a country or state that will take infidelity or adultery into account during divorce proceedings.

I think it is best for you to hire a PI and not stalk people by yourself.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Do not under any circumstances confront her until you have irrefutable proof. Get it by PI or whatever you need. A VAR in her car is a handy tool. Learn how to use it though.
Cheaters will lie and cannot accept the truth of their crimes, even when confronted with a video of them having sex at times. Get what you need for evidence and then divorce her. Lying cheaters don’t make good wives, as you know.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

jay20 said:


> Should I try and catch them at lunch break or wait for more evidence. I'm pretty certain she will deny it unless I have lots of evidence.


If you are at the point that she's lying about ****ting her pants, and you're looking through the trash for ****ty underwear, just end it.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

Find the name of the coworker and then do a google search. You’ll be able to find the address for sure. Then you will have to track your wife’s moves. Does she have an iPhone? If so, you can turn on location tracking on and track her moves. This should only take hours to set up.

If you’re able to track her phone and see them both going to his apartment or the phone always seems to go off radar during their lunch hour or the phone does not move for the entirety of her stint at work (which may denote the fact that they are using internal phone/email portals or a burner phone to communicate,) I’d hire a PI immediately and start talks with a divorce attorney.

DO NOT confront her on this at all. She will go deeper into anonymity territory and then it’ll be incredibly hard to catch her in the act.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

jay20 said:


> I've suspected of an affair for sometime with her co-worker but I believe my wife is a covert narcissist and is gas lighting me.
> Monday night I notice that she shaved and also just came off her period. Tuesday she oddly had a shower right after work when I took my kids for a bike ride. When I noticed she said it's because she wasn't feeling well and pooped her pants a bit during a walk at lunch time. She told me not to bring it up again and that she had to throw her underwear out. Right after supper she did laundry which also seemed odd. I checked all the garbage's and no underwear. The next morning I noticed stained underwear hanging to dry. The stain was in the front not the back and looked more like blood stains.
> 
> So I turned on google maps tracking but I couldn't find yesterdays history. It's just blank. So this morning I added myself to her shared google maps location and can see her location in with some lag at times. I don't know where the co-corker lives but it's very near their work. They get 1 hour lunch breaks and he goes home everyday.
> ...


Aside from the shower, the dirty underwear and her shaving her PPs, do you have any other evidence that something is going on with the co worker? Does she talk about him often? Have you checked her phone? Call/text logs? Does she have a tendency to go shopping looking like a hooker in heat only to come back with nothing, makeup is gone, perfume barely noticeable and new underwear?

Corey Wayne used to say that if your significant other goes shopping with bags at hand and comes back empty handed, she's getting sausage on the side. I can attest to this.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

bobert said:


> If you are at the point that she's lying about ****ting her pants, and you're looking through the trash for ****ty underwear, just end it.


No, he DOES need to find out! If she's having unprotected sex, which the "dirty" underwear and the shower seem to point to, the OP needs to know whether he has to cease sexual relations or use protection with her or not. Not to mention get tested for STDs.


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## MrBigBull (6 mo ago)

jay20 said:


> I've suspected of an affair for sometime with her co-worker but I believe my wife is a covert narcissist and is gas lighting me.
> Monday night I notice that she shaved and also just came off her period. Tuesday she oddly had a shower right after work when I took my kids for a bike ride. When I noticed she said it's because she wasn't feeling well and pooped her pants a bit during a walk at lunch time. She told me not to bring it up again and that she had to throw her underwear out. Right after supper she did laundry which also seemed odd. I checked all the garbage's and no underwear. The next morning I noticed stained underwear hanging to dry. The stain was in the front not the back and looked more like blood stains.
> 
> So I turned on google maps tracking but I couldn't find yesterdays history. It's just blank. So this morning I added myself to her shared google maps location and can see her location in with some lag at times. I don't know where the co-corker lives but it's very near their work. They get 1 hour lunch breaks and he goes home everyday.
> ...


Get more proof, undeniable proof.
I do not know what you want to do when you have the proof, if your mind is set to divorce if she is cheating, then do not confront her.
Just go to a lawyer and let him draw up the papers. Then have her served at the co-workers house on a lunch break.
This way she immediately knows you know about the cheating, else she would not be served at his house. Make sure a copy with the evidence is with the divorce papers.
The best way to get the evidence is via a PI. Do not go yourself, you risk being seen by your wife or someone else who informs your wife.
If she knows you were at her work, she then will take the cheating further underground.
You can "help" the PI by saying you need to go somewhere for 2 or 3 days, this give her more "freedom" to expose herself to the PI. But only if going away is a normal routine in your life.


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## blackclover3 (Apr 23, 2021)

Gang

No one come here to talk about wife's behavior's unless inside he is certain. 

trust your gut - everything you mentioned checks well with someone having sex during work

she is lying and having an affair

* put a gps tracker 
hire a PI
get your finances separated 

and honestly, based on all of these you mentioned sorry to let you know it is very highly your wife is having sex with a co-worker or someone


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

jay20 said:


> I've suspected of an affair for sometime with her co-worker but I believe my wife is a covert narcissist and is gas lighting me.
> Monday night I notice that she shaved and also just came off her period. Tuesday she oddly had a shower right after work when I took my kids for a bike ride. When I noticed she said it's because she wasn't feeling well and pooped her pants a bit during a walk at lunch time. She told me not to bring it up again and that she had to throw her underwear out. Right after supper she did laundry which also seemed odd. I checked all the garbage's and no underwear. The next morning I noticed stained underwear hanging to dry. The stain was in the front not the back and looked more like blood stains.
> 
> So I turned on google maps tracking but I couldn't find yesterdays history. It's just blank. So this morning I added myself to her shared google maps location and can see her location in with some lag at times. I don't know where the co-corker lives but it's very near their work. They get 1 hour lunch breaks and he goes home everyday.
> ...


Uh, no.

The underwear thing is inconclusive.
I would tend to believe her about why she washed her panties.

Poop and blood stains are not the same, but are close enough.
The anus and the vagina are very close together, so the stain spot is not a good indication.

I am sure you embarrassed the hell out of her, ugh.

Is she cheating?
I do not know, but, keep silently digging and watching if you believe she is.

Eyes open, mouth shut, take your time.

I hope you find nothing, and that she is a good wife.


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## jay20 (Oct 31, 2019)

I don't know if I can wait on a PI. Next week will be the earliest. Don't know if I can keep it together for a week. She will likely want to have sex next week when I get off nights. Don't think I'll be able to. I haven't slept the last 2 days. I will book the PI ASAP. I have a recorder in her car today. I haven't found anything on her phone. I notice she always positions herself away from me when using. Not sure how I would track her iphone other than using google maps.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

BoSlander said:


> No, he DOES need to find out! If she's having unprotected sex, which the "dirty" underwear and the shower seem to point to, the OP needs to know whether he has to cease sexual relations or use protection with her or not. Not to mention get tested for STDs.


He can do that without playing private detective. He has suspected an affair for years, his last post about it was in 2019. So if he was smart he would already have done those steps.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Just going to reiterate what others are saying: DO NOT CONFRONT WITHOUT EVIDENCE. The affair may stop, or go way underground and you might never actually find out what is going on.

I agree with your concerns and it does seem like she is up to no good.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

jay20 said:


> I don't know if I can wait on a PI. Next week will be the earliest. Don't know if I can keep it together for a week. She will likely want to have sex next week when I get off nights. Don't think I'll be able to. I haven't slept the last 2 days. I will book the PI ASAP. I have a recorder in her car today. I haven't found anything on her phone. I notice she always positions herself away from me when using. Not sure how I would track her iphone other than using google maps.


Do you use find my iphone? If you were to go on her phone and hit share location, then share with you, you would see here phone location in essentially real time.


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## Hoosier (May 17, 2011)

Dont say anything! You need to know more for you then her. She will deny, you need concrete proof so you can stay on track.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

bobert said:


> He can do that without playing private detective. He has suspected an affair for years, his last post about it was in 2019. So if he was smart he would already have done those steps.


I'm not saying otherwise. I was merely responding to your suggestion that he ought to "just end it." Whether he "ends it" or not he still needs to know what this woman has exposed him to.


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## jay20 (Oct 31, 2019)

re16 said:


> Do you use find my iphone? If you were to go on her phone and hit share location, then share with you, you would see here phone location in essentially real time.


I can use it on her macbook. Will it notify her phone? What if i do it from her macbook? It may have facial recognition to allow me to share location. I tried looking at her maps history and it asked for that.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

BoSlander said:


> I'm not saying otherwise. I was merely responding to your suggestion that he ought to "just end it." Whether he "ends it" or not he still needs to know what this woman has exposed him to.


No, he needs to end it and assume she's the town *****. He most likely will never get the truth anyway.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

bobert said:


> No, he needs to end it and assume she's the town ***. He most likely will never get the truth anyway.


I wish 2022 Bobert was around to talk to 2018 Bobert lol.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

jay20 said:


> I can use it on her macbook. Will it notify her phone? What if i do it from her macbook? It may have facial recognition to allow me to share location. I tried looking at her maps history and it asked for that.


If it is the same apple ID, it should show the iphone location, without any notification if you have access to the Macbook.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

re16 said:


> I wish 2022 Bobert was around to talk to 2018 Bobert lol.


You and me both.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Interesting responses from some givin the (in)action of their own past and continuing support and marriage to their own lying cheating “wife”.

Confusing…….


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I think of you can afford it, hiring a PI would be the way to go. If I ever suspect my husband of cheating, I think the proof would be irrefutable coming from a “professional” and harder to deny.

I would be interested to read from you OP, what other things have gone on that have made you suspicious?


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## ArthurGPym (Jun 28, 2021)

Never confront a cheater. Hire a PI. Stop having sex with her. If he confirms it, then quietly file for divorce without her knowing. Move your money to new accounts she has no access to. Play it smart an dplay the long game. I hope it works out for you.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

*Deidre* said:


> I think of you can afford it, hiring a PI would be the way to go. If I ever suspect my husband of cheating, I think the proof would be irrefutable coming from a “professional” and harder to deny.
> 
> *I would be interested to read from you OP, what other things have gone on that have made you suspicious?*


#metoo


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

jay20 said:


> Should I try and catch them at lunch break or wait for more evidence. I'm pretty certain she will deny it unless I have lots of evidence.


Talk to a lawyer. If Canada has no fault divorce all the evidence in the world will not impact the division of assets in a divorce. So what is the point of getting evidence? Do you just want to be right? That is valid but it may not help you legally.


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## jay20 (Oct 31, 2019)

I want to be sure for me. I will be blamed for the divorce. PI will be $1500 per day. No way of knowing if they get anything either. Would like to find his address first and see if they both show up.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

*Deidre* said:


> I think of you can afford it, hiring a PI would be the way to go.


 All of those suspecting are advised to crack the suspects phone, buy and install a var, implement tracking aps, etc. Lot of work by amateurs who probably have a day job. Also wonder about legality of some of it, VAR for example.

I recall PIs cost $200/hr and consume 20 -30 hours on the job so north of 5 grand to find out. If the answer is no cheating, that is lot of change to burn for nothing. But since gut is usually right it gets the uncertainty over quickly.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Rus47 said:


> All of those suspecting are advised to crack the suspects phone, buy and install a var, implement tracking aps, etc. Lot of work by amateurs who probably have a day job. Also wonder about legality of some of it, VAR for example.
> 
> I recall PIs cost $200/hr and consume 20 -30 hours on the job so north of 5 grand to find out. If the answer is no cheating, that is lot of change to burn for nothing. But since gut is usually right it gets the uncertainty over quickly.


Whoa, I didn’t realize they were that expensive. But, yea if you have strong suspicions, it might be money well spent.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

bobert said:


> No, he needs to end it and assume she's the town ***. He most likely will never get the truth anyway.


I think he should hire the PI. Mine busted my x first time out.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

*Deidre* said:


> Whoa, I didn’t realize they were that expensive. But, yea if you have strong suspicions, it might be money well spent.


Mine was free, an investigator I used in my law practice. He could ask a buddy, someone she does not know. Just needs to follow them from her work.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Megaforce said:


> I think he should hire the PI. Mine busted my x first time out.


And if the PI doesn't find anything, then what? You really think the OP will suddenly accept that he was wrong, trust his wife and stop looking for her **** stained underwear? Stop examining underwear stains as they hang on the clothesline? 

I doubt it.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

bobert said:


> And if the PI doesn't find anything, then what? You really think the OP will suddenly accept that he was wrong, trust his wife and stop looking for her **** stained underwear? Stop examining underwear stains as they hang on the clothesline?
> 
> I doubt it.


Worth the price of potentially finding out for certain. Otherwise, as he mentioned, he will get blamed. Plus, not knowing with absolute certainty plays on the mind. Doubt creeps in, especially over time.
Easy for me to say, I know. My PI worked gratis as we were friends .
I think a buddy that she does not know could do the legwork. Just set her up by going away. Or, maybe just a couple of lunch hour surveillances. 
On another note, her imperious directive to "not bring it up again ", does sound like the type of command a narcissist would issue to her percieved underling.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Megaforce said:


> Worth the price of potentially finding out for certain. Otherwise, as he mentioned, he will get blamed. Plus, not knowing with absolute certainty plays on the mind. Doubt creeps in, especially over time.
> Easy for me to say, I know. My PI worked gratis as we were friends .
> I think a buddy that she does not know could do the legwork. Just set her up by going away. Or, maybe just a couple of lunch hour surveillances.
> On another note, her imperious directive to "not bring it up again ", does sound like the type of command a narcissist would issue to her percieved underling.


Using a PI does NOT make anything certain.

If the PI doesn't find anything, that doesn't necessarily mean she isn't cheating and when someone is to the point of the OP, I doubt it will clear all doubts.

Or what if the friend/PI finds her going to the co-workers house at lunch, and that's it. Just gets a photo of her going into the house and coming out? That sure is suspect but it is NOT 100% conclusive.

And he will mostly likely STILL be blamed anyway. That's what cheaters do, caught or not.


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## Tiddytok5 (8 mo ago)

Just divorce and leave.. make sure to make sure your health is up to par by getting tested.


You're unhappy, you feel like you're being mistreated, you don't trust her , being lied to, going out of your mind and stressing yourself with worry and try to go after her monitor her, playing "detective" all of the time..


It isn't worth the stress and making yourself sick. Plus, she's not going to stop. If she's doing anything. You're not going to stop whether she is or isn't. You're not going to ever trust her. Things aren't going to get better.

You're always going to feel the need to monitor her and play "detective". 


If you have general trust issues, you're never going to trust her or any other relationship.

Miserable, unhappy people should leave the unhealthy, toxic, and terrible people and relationships they're in.



You need to just leave. Get therapy


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

What I would do is to take a two days (fake) business trip out of state., Thursday & Friday seems to be the best bet if he's not single. With you coming back Saturday's afternoon (she must be clear on this). Rent a car that can't be traced (money wise, paper trail) to you. And follow her. If she's having an affair, you'll get her this way.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Rob_1 said:


> Rent a car that can't be traced (money wise, paper trail) to you.


How can this be accomplished?


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Rus47 said:


> How can this be accomplished?


Doesn’t matter. He doesn’t need to rent a car that can’t be traced back to him. He’s not trying to evade LE or the cartels here.

Other than that, it’s a good idea.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

I’m sorry… she had her period and had to shower and wash undies. That’s really normal, and I’m a middle-aged woman who would not appreciate my husband inspecting my laundry and hygiene and my underwear. We get messy periods sometimes and still have to work and carry on, and we often want to jump straight into the shower after coming home. My own girls are still funny about this and don’t want anyone near the laundry when this happens, and I understand their need to feel icky if they want to. Please stop looking at her underwear during her period, and yes, she probably wouldn’t shave during her period either. 


Do you have any concrete evidence of her cheating, like is she texting/emailing outside work hours? I had lunch with lots of men during my career, and I even had to make lunch for one man every day at one job. Not because we were having an affair because the man was damn lazy and expected me to do so. 

I feel sorry if you’re feeling insecure for your own reasons and going to these lengths. Pls speak to someone about this, and if you do have solid evidence and concerns, I apologise for my unfounded concerns.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Luckylucky said:


> I’m sorry… she had her period and had to shower and wash undies. That’s really normal, and I’m a middle-aged woman who would not appreciate my husband inspecting my laundry and hygiene and my underwear. We get messy periods sometimes and still have to work and carry on, and we often want to jump straight into the shower after coming home. My own girls are still funny about this and don’t want anyone near the laundry when this happens, and I understand their need to feel icky if they want to. Please stop looking at her underwear during her period, and yes, she probably wouldn’t shave during her period either.


I did not realize that a messy period meant you were cheating. This whole thing seems bananas. Surely, SURELY there is more than "a sexually mature woman had bloodstains in her underwear after her period."


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I did not realize that a messy period meant you were cheating. This whole thing seems bananas. Surely, SURELY there is more than "a sexually mature woman had bloodstains in her underwear after her period."


It doesn't, and I don't think that's what the OP was trying to say. He said he went looking for ****-stained underwear and didn't find any. All he found was underwear that appeared to be blood-stained, so, it appears she lied about pooping her pants.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

bobert said:


> It doesn't, and I don't think that's what the OP was trying to say. He said he went looking for ****-stained underwear and didn't find any. All he found was underwear that appeared to be blood-stained, so, it appears she lied about pooping her pants.


Didn’t she say she threw them away? Do we know she threw them away at home? She was on a walk so I guess she was home then. This still seems like some pretty wild conjecture. I would think there’s more to him thinking she’s cheating than just this. I’m not saying it’s not possible, certainly. It just would never have occurred to me that if I had gastrointestinal distress that led me to throw out panties (which I would of course hide in shame) that my husband would then assume I’m cheating. But there’s nothing about our lives that would make him think that, so surely there is other behavior that is weird.

Or this is bananas.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

DudeInProgress said:


> Doesn’t matter. He doesn’t need to rent a car that can’t be traced back to him. He’s not trying to evade LE or the cartels here.
> 
> Other than that, it’s a good idea.



The problem is the moment that he rents a car in his name in his city, while he's supposed to be out state, somehow Murphys law could applied and the wife somehow my get or intercept a notification of the rental. She would know or wonder where he is. Big red flag for a cheater. 

Personally, I have sufficient friends and family members (males that won't open their big mouth to their wife) for me to have them rent a car in their name. Another way could be a corporate card where all documentation is handled at work. 

Depending on company policies you can use your corporate card for personal use, as long as you reimburse per their policies.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

D0nnivain said:


> Talk to a lawyer. If Canada has no fault divorce all the evidence in the world will not impact the division of assets in a divorce. So what is the point of getting evidence? Do you just want to be right? That is valid but it may not help you legally.


Yup and yup.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Didn’t she say she threw them away? Do we know she threw them away at home? She was on a walk so I guess she was home then. This still seems like some pretty wild conjecture. I would think there’s more to him thinking she’s cheating than just this. I’m not saying it’s not possible, certainly. It just would never have occurred to me that if I had gastrointestinal distress that led me to throw out panties (which I would of course hide in shame) that my husband would then assume I’m cheating. But there’s nothing about our lives that would make him think that, so surely there is other behavior that is weird.
> 
> Or this is bananas.


Yeah, she threw them out and the OP went looking through the trash. How well did he look though? And in every trash in the house/garage/alley? Anyone who **** their pants would likely hide the underwear pretty well, not just toss them in the bin. Or, like you said, she also could have thrown them away at work, in a public trashcan, etc. 

He has been suspicious for years, but hasn't told us much on WHY. No sane person would accuse their wife of cheating over a tale of poopy panties.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Rob_1 said:


> The problem is the moment that he rents a car in his name in his city, while he's supposed to be out state, somehow Murphys law could applied and the wife somehow my get or intercept a notification of the rental. She would know or wonder where he is. Big red flag for a cheater.
> 
> Personally, I have sufficient friends and family members (males that won't open their big mouth to their wife) for me to have them rent a car in their name. Another way could be a corporate card where all documentation is handled at work.
> 
> Depending on company policies you can use your corporate card for personal use, as long as you reimburse per their policies.


I guess, if she’s monitoring his credit card, email and/or rental car app.

I could pretty confidently rent a car in my town without my wife having the slightest clue or being alerted any way. But, that Murphy guy is a real thing, so I suppose caution would be in order.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

bobert said:


> Yeah, she threw them out and the OP went looking through the trash. How well did he look though? And in every trash in the house/garage/alley? Anyone who **** their pants would likely hide the underwear pretty well, not just toss them in the bin. Or, like you said, she also could have thrown them away at work, in a public trashcan, etc.
> 
> He has been suspicious for years, but hasn't told us much on WHY. No sane person would accuse their wife of cheating over a tale of poopy panties.


Yeah that’s all I’m saying. I wonder what else she’s done to make him so suspicious that he’s digging in the trash for soiled underwear. That poor man is on the edge of madness from whatever she has done, jinkies.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Didn’t she say she threw them away? Do we know she threw them away at home? She was on a walk so I guess she was home then. This still seems like some pretty wild conjecture. I would think there’s more to him thinking she’s cheating than just this. I’m not saying it’s not possible, certainly. It just would never have occurred to me that if I had gastrointestinal distress that led me to throw out panties (which I would of course hide in shame) that my husband would then assume I’m cheating. But there’s nothing about our lives that would make him think that, so surely there is other behavior that is weird.
> 
> Or this is bananas.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I did not realize that a messy period meant you were cheating. This whole thing seems bananas. Surely, SURELY there is more than "a sexually mature woman had bloodstains in her underwear after her period."


She told him she threw away the panties on question and did not want to talk about it. Then she laundered the clothing. So she lied about throwing them away. She probably washed semen and blood off the panties, why else lie about them being thrown away?


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Yeah that’s all I’m saying. I wonder what else she’s done to make him so suspicious that he’s digging in the trash for soiled underwear. That poor man is on the edge of madness from whatever she has done, jinkies.


Magawd I am seriously questioning my maturity level. Everytime Bobert says poopy panties or ****ty undies I lose it. 

Im sorry OP. I’m just going to say, that three years of THIS??? This is horrible. Can I ask why you want to stay in this marriage at this point, 3 years (likely more) of being married to a person when you obviously can not trust them? (Not saying you were married three years but not trusting at least three.)

Whether she is doing something or not… this isn’t what life is supposed to be. I think you should consider what you deserve in a relationship and what a marriage should look like. If this doesn’t turn up hard evidence… what are you going to do? Continue to stalk her for 3 more years? I gaurantee your questions about her periods, showers and poopy undies are not going unnoticed. There is already a dynamic here.

Just think about your end game. That’s all I’m saying. What kind of life do you want to lead.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Tiddytok5 said:


> Just divorce and leave.. make sure to make sure your health is up to par by getting tested.
> 
> 
> You're unhappy, you feel like you're being mistreated, you don't trust her , being lied to, going out of your mind and stressing yourself with worry and try to go after her monitor her, playing "detective" all of the time..
> ...


Agree with this. I think it’s just not worth going through all of this just to keep from divorcing. I’d rather be alone for the rest of my life than tolerate cheating and emotional abuse.

Believe in yourself, OP and that you deserve better than this.😔


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## jay20 (Oct 31, 2019)

bobert said:


> Using a PI does NOT make anything certain.
> 
> If the PI doesn't find anything, that doesn't necessarily mean she isn't cheating and when someone is to the point of the OP, I doubt it will clear all doubts.
> 
> ...


This will likely be the case. Pictures of him going in. Her going in later. Same when they leave. Not sure what the court needs for burden of proof. I really want to expose this with more than that. Pretty sure they only have sex during lunch breaks. Not far from work. His wife is a nurse and likely shift worker as am I. So it will make it tough for a PI to get lucky when she is working. 

Google maps showed her in the area of his house for lunch today. I saw her van parked on the street. I am going to get the PI to get the address to confirm. Then hire PI.


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## jay20 (Oct 31, 2019)

It hasn't been 3 years of PI work here. We've had ups and downs. She is very clever and good at gas lighting. My eyes started to open when I google walking on egg shells. Read up on covert narcissist's. Before I couldn't believe someone would go to these great lengths to cheat. But now I can see it. Also I have been seeing a therapist about this.


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## MrBigBull (6 mo ago)

jay20 said:


> This will likely be the case. Pictures of him going in. Her going in later. Same when they leave. Not sure what the court needs for burden of proof. I really want to expose this with more than that. Pretty sure they only have sex during lunch breaks. Not far from work. His wife is a nurse and likely shift worker as am I. So it will make it tough for a PI to get lucky when she is working.
> 
> Google maps showed her in the area of his house for lunch today. I saw her van parked on the street. I am going to get the PI to get the address to confirm. Then hire PI.


Is there any chance you can get in touch with his wife?
She could take a day, or some hours off to go into the house at the lunch break and catch them in the act.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

jay20 said:


> It hasn't been 3 years of PI work here. We've had ups and downs. She is very clever and good at gas lighting. My eyes started to open when I google walking on egg shells. Read up on covert narcissist's. Before I couldn't believe someone would go to these great lengths to cheat. But now I can see it. Also I have been seeing a therapist about this.


Ok. My point is… what if you don’t get the evidence that will make you fully believe she is cheating? Do you want to stay with a gas lighting narcissist who you walk on eggshells around? Just saying, consider your end game before you plan your strategy.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

MrBigBull said:


> Is there any chance you can get in touch with his wife?
> She could take a day, or some hours off to go into the house at the lunch break and catch them in the act.


That’s taking a huge risk. It’s more likely she’ll immediately confront her husband and then that plan is dead.


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## jay20 (Oct 31, 2019)

Should 


MrBigBull said:


> Is there any chance you can get in touch with his wife?
> She could take a day, or some hours off to go into the house at the lunch break and catch them in the act.


I was just going to ask if this would be a good idea. I don't have her number so it would have to be a facebook request or something like it. She could blow up any chance of getting evidence by talking to him about it and not finding anything.


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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

jay20 said:


> This will likely be the case. Pictures of him going in. Her going in later. Same when they leave. Not sure what the court needs for burden of proof. I really want to expose this with more than that. Pretty sure they only have sex during lunch breaks. Not far from work. His wife is a nurse and likely shift worker as am I. So it will make it tough for a PI to get lucky when she is working.
> 
> Google maps showed her in the area of his house for lunch today. I saw her van parked on the street. I am going to get the PI to get the address to confirm. Then hire PI.


Oh dear, this rather changes things somewhat, now it does appear your wife is cheating.
I would not advise that you contact this jerks wife until you have good evidence otherwise you could get sued for defamation or even be letting know you`re onto them.
Would it be possible for you to take a week off of work, hire a car so as your wife doesn`t know it`s you and stakeout the wife yourself. Make sure you take a decent video device with you.
Certainly cheaper than hiring a PI, especially considering you suspect this is mostly happening during your wife`s lunch times.
If you do see your wife going in and out this jerks home more than once then knock on his door when your wife is there, pretend to be a policeman and want to talk with him. Then barge in catching your wife in the act, videoing the event and you will have your proof.
Just an idea, what do you think?


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

jay20 said:


> This will likely be the case. Pictures of him going in. Her going in later. Same when they leave. Not sure what the court needs for burden of proof. I really want to expose this with more than that. *Pretty sure they only have sex during lunch breaks*. Not far from work. His wife is a nurse and likely shift worker as am I. So it will make it tough for a PI to get lucky when she is working.
> 
> Google maps showed her in the area of his house for lunch today. I saw her van parked on the street. I am going to get the PI to get the address to confirm. Then hire PI.


If the bolded part of your commentary is true then it's paramount that you hire a PI because she is clearly carefully and methodically covering her tracks (went underground) and you will have to spend the next 2 years of your life keeping tabs on her. Which means you will *LOSE* 10 years of your life in exchange.

My XW used to leave her iPhone at work and use a burner while at work. I tracked her iPhone _Find My_ function for 3 whole months before I realized she wasn't using the iPhone while at school at all, only to answer my texts/phone calls, which she'd check periodically so that she didn't raise any suspicions. She probably kept it in a drawer somewhere. She would, oddly enough, eat lunch at 11AM, at her desk, and then... disappear for about an hour between 2 and 4. What I'm trying to convey is that you are not too far-fetched on your case. Cheaters DO DO this.


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## jay20 (Oct 31, 2019)

gameopoly5 said:


> Oh dear, this rather changes things somewhat, now it does appear your wife is cheating.
> I would not advise that you contact this jerks wife until you have good evidence otherwise you could get sued for defamation or even be letting know you`re onto them.
> Would it be possible for you to take a week off of work, hire a car so as your wife doesn`t know it`s you and stakeout the wife yourself. Make sure you take a decent video device with you.
> Certainly cheaper than hiring a PI, especially considering you suspect this is mostly happening during your wife`s lunch times.
> ...


Yes. I like the rental car idea. I would like to get a GPS for her car as it's not walking distance. They wouldn't likely take the same vehicle as it would cause suspicion of co-workers. Oddly they seem bold enough to do it when I'm on days off during the week. On Tuesday I brought coffee and donuts in to work in the morning and am pretty sure they had sex at lunch. The stained undies day.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

jay20 said:


> Yes. I like the rental car idea. I would like to get a GPS for her car as it's not walking distance. They wouldn't likely take the same vehicle as it would cause suspicion of co-workers. Oddly they seem bold enough to do it when I'm on days off during the week. On Tuesday I brought coffee and donuts in to work in the morning and am pretty sure they had sex at lunch. The stained undies day.


Why are you going down this road of trying to catch them in the act?

I know you said you want hard evidence for yourself, but that might never come. Hard evidence could be very difficult to get without some sort of coordinated and staged event.

Why not make the decision that “yep, she’s cheating” and act on that? You’ll save yourself miles of effort and anxiety. Who cares if she denies it? What does that matter? She probably would deny it even with hard evidence.


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## jay20 (Oct 31, 2019)

I want t


BeyondRepair007 said:


> Why are you going down this road of trying to catch them in the act?
> 
> I know you said you want hard evidence for yourself, but that might never come. Hard evidence could be very difficult to get without some sort of coordinated and staged event.
> 
> Why not make the decision that “yep, she’s cheating” and act on that? You’ll save yourself miles of effort and anxiety. Who cares if she denies it? What does that matter? She probably would deny it even with hard evidence.


I hear you. I'm pretty sure if I caught them in the act it would "not be what it looks like" somehow.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

jay20 said:


> I want t
> 
> I hear you. I'm pretty sure if I caught them in the act it would "not be what it looks like" somehow.


Yep. Unless you get PIV video you’re going to be stuck in this same place no matter how much you “catch” them. You just need to convince yourself. Then go to a lawyer and talk it out with them.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

jay20 said:


> This will likely be the case. Pictures of him going in. Her going in later. Same when they leave. Not sure what the court needs for burden of proof. I really want to expose this with more than that. Pretty sure they only have sex during lunch breaks. Not far from work. His wife is a nurse and likely shift worker as am I. So it will make it tough for a PI to get lucky when she is working.
> 
> Google maps showed her in the area of his house for lunch today. I saw her van parked on the street. I am going to get the PI to get the address to confirm. Then hire PI.


Why do you want to file at fault? If you are in Canada, then you would separate for a year and file due to "irreconcilable differences". 

I understand the appeal of having her (and her AP) publically labeled an adulterer. BTDT. However, there is no point to do that. 

At-fault divorce cost more money, they take just as long (if not longer) to complete, you will certainly have a more pissed-off STBXW to deal with, your evidence may not be enough, it has no impact on child support or custody, and it has no impact on spousal support (in Canada). 

You don't even know what evidence you would need. So stop wasting time and money on a PI and all this stuff that makes for an exciting TAM thread and go to a lawyer. Find out exactly what you need to prove that your wife is having a sexual affair. Emotional affairs do not count, and suspicion does not count. 

Also, you may not even be able to file at fault regardless of all the evidence in the world. I assume you have continued to sleep with her after becoming suspicious? That can be used to show you forgave her, especially once you have "hard proof".


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## jay20 (Oct 31, 2019)

Should I send away her underwear from yesterday? It will likely have semen. Or would loosing them tip her off?


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Other than period underwear what’s your proof? If you want divorce, divorce. If it were me and I wasn’t cheating, I’d be done if you sent in my underwear.

you mention she dressed up like coworker ( not love interests), they don’t text, you stalked the garbage for Shart underwear and want to send others in.

if this is all you got I think you’re paranoid


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

MrBigBull said:


> Is there any chance you can get in touch with his wife?
> She could take a day, or some hours off to go into the house at the lunch break and catch them in the act.


His wife might be fully aware. Has some work husbands herself being in medical field. So contacting her will tip him off


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## jay20 (Oct 31, 2019)

snowbum said:


> Other than period underwear what’s your proof? If you want divorce, divorce. If it were me and I wasn’t cheating, I’d be done if you sent in my underwear.
> 
> you mention she dressed up like coworker ( not love interests), they don’t text, you stalked the garbage for Shart underwear and want to send others in.
> 
> if this is all you got I think you’re paranoid


I want more evidence for myself so I don't look back and say I was paranoid. I know what's happening.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

snowbum said:


> Other than period underwear what’s your proof? If you want divorce, divorce. If it were me and I wasn’t cheating, I’d be done if you sent in my underwear.
> 
> you mention she dressed up like coworker ( not love interests), they don’t text, you stalked the garbage for Shart underwear and want to send others in.
> 
> if this is all you got I think you’re paranoid


OP is writing this whole thread because his gut is screaming at him that his wife is cheating. That's ENOUGH. @jay20 , trust your gut. There are certain posters who would always defend a woman since the little angels can't do any wrong even when caught with a bloody ax standing over the decapitated body of a man with her skin under his nails from when he tried to defend himself.

The circumstantial evidence simply supports that gut feeling you already have and you have that gut feeling because you know your wife and you know something sexual is off and it points to an affair.

Trust that gut feeling.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

jay20 said:


> I want more evidence for myself so I don't look back and say I was paranoid. I know what's happening.


How though? You said they don’t text. Is she out late drinking? Is she taking calls in strange places? If you “ know” then divirce


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

*


bobert said:



He can do that without playing private detective. He has suspected an affair for years, his last post about it was in 2019. So if he was smart he would already have done those steps.

Click to expand...

*OP - what is up with this? You mean to tell us you've *suspected* this for a long time now but have done *nothing* but sit and cower in the shadows?

Come on. You're just stalling because you're just like the other guys who occasionally post here who were also too afraid to know the truth, so they continually danced around their suspicions and never did the REAL work to find out. And that's because they were too afraid of knowing the truth because then they couldn't cower in a dark corner anymore doing nothing about it. And if you had wanted the truth, you would have done *something* productive in these last 2 years to find out, and you didn't. I mean honestly, does she have to record a video of herself and her latest play-toy onto your 60" widescreen TV before you *finally* have no choice but to VOICE what you've already known for a long time?

Find your spine and stop using ridiculous excuses to pretend you don't know the truth because you know that you DO.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

PS: I have a friend who was the female equivalent of you, OP.

Like you, she knew her husband was a cheater and also like you, she just kept desperately clinging to him like grim death - even though she continually found evidence that he was cheating. This was way before computers and cell phones - all we had were payphones back then.

She'd find other women's phone numbers or pictures in his wallet, be told by others that they'd spotted him at some hotel or restaurant with a woman who wasn't her, she'd catch him chatting up other women at social functions, her good friends would tell her things they'd been told by reliable sources, she'd catch him out at places not wearing his wedding ring, their home phone would ring and people would hang up when she answered, she occasionally found makeup or lipstick or perfume on his clothes and on his underwear, and SO much more. The evidence just mounted up over the years but pathetically, she STILL clung to him claiming she needed that _*"one piece of smoking gun evidence that would prove it"*_ to her.

Well, she paid dearly waiting for it.

She stayed with Mr. Wonderful for a total of 18 years until she'd *finally* had enough of this cheating liar. Soon after her separation, she was diagnosed with a very aggressive cancer-causing strain of HPV (thanks to the pig bringing it home to her) and had cancer of the cervix. At the age of 40, she had to have a complete and total hysterectomy. They carved her up like a Christmas turkey - but it wasn't even over yet. Nope. Not too long after, it was discovered that the cancer had also spread to her breasts and she had to have a double mastectomy. 

*THAT'S* what playing the self-delusion card and clinging to a worthless cheater got my friend.

Your mileage may vary, of course.


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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

jay20 said:


> I want more evidence for myself so I don't look back and say I was paranoid. I know what's happening.


If you claim to know what`s happening and want evidence, then what`s stopping you from gathering evidence?
I`ve already explained to you in my previous post what to do and now all you`re doing is going around in circles, asking the same questions in different ways.
Start getting onto your wife`s case, make it your mission and you will discover the truth.
Good luck.


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## Exit37 (3 mo ago)

Jay, get a CheckMate semen detection kit, you can find them on Amazon and have the package shipped to an Amazon locker near you. Just make sure you aren't using a shared Amazon account when you order it... For a tracker, check out logistimatics.com. They have trackers that use geofencing, so you'll get notified when he car leaves work or anywhere else you put a geofence around. Finally, make sure you are using incognito mode or are clearing browser history if you are using a shared computer at home, so you don't let the cat out of the bag. She might very well be checking your browser history to see if you are on to her. Good luck.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

If it was me, I’d hire a PI. He or she is an expert at this. And, emotions won’t be in play. By that, I mean if you camped out and saw her and him going into his place for lunchtime fun, it could escalate fast. You may get very angry, pound on the door, confront them, beat him up and/or worse. Pay the PI.


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## ArthurGPym (Jun 28, 2021)

Just borrow a car or rent one and follow her.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

I just don’t get why you’re willing to stay with a gaslighting narcissist that you can’t trust, but you’re somehow going to leave her when you have “enough” evidence she cheated. 

If semen somehow turns up on her underwear that she already washed, she will tell you it’s yours. (And you’ll doubt yourself, then go to try and get other evidence that will convince you.) She’s already on to you, with your questions.

I think more likely, she will find an affair that will stick and then she will end up leaving you and taking half your crap or more.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Even if she's not cheating, she treats you badly. At this point OP, you must think that this is as good as it gets. As though you can't imagine a better situation than this, so you're trying to hang on. Cheating and being treated like a doormat isn't a given in marriage. You're missing out on how great life could be without this albatross around your neck. 😔


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

ArthurGPym said:


> Just borrow a car or rent one and follow her.


Not a bad idea. Hadn’t thought of this approach.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

He's come this far, so what if he wants bullet proof evidence...

Why don't you get an apple air tag and put it in her car.... then you'll know exactly where it is. You can follow from a little farther back this way...


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> Ok. My point is… what if you don’t get the evidence that will make you fully believe she is cheating? Do you want to stay with a gas lighting narcissist who you walk on eggshells around? Just saying, consider your end game before you plan your strategy.


Either reason, narcissist or cheater or a comb platter, is good enough to divorce. But, he wants confirmation of cheating. I would, too.
So, if the resources are available and cost is doable, go for it. Or, use a friend. 
If she heads for his house on lunch, and has never mentioned it, that is pretty damning. 
I know the undies have been discussed. So, is it less embarrassing for her to claim she pooped vs had her period? I would think not.
Is he unable to distinguish between poop stains and blood stains? He gave no indication of this.
Would a normal person command that he never mention it again? 
The above seem inconsistent with the speculation that this was just a messy period as some suggested.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Luckylucky said:


> I’m sorry… she had her period and had to shower and wash undies. That’s really normal, and I’m a middle-aged woman who would not appreciate my husband inspecting my laundry and hygiene and my underwear. We get messy periods sometimes and still have to work and carry on, and we often want to jump straight into the shower after coming home. My own girls are still funny about this and don’t want anyone near the laundry when this happens, and I understand their need to feel icky if they want to. Please stop looking at her underwear during her period, and yes, she probably wouldn’t shave during her period either.
> 
> 
> Do you have any concrete evidence of her cheating, like is she texting/emailing outside work hours? I had lunch with lots of men during my career, and I even had to make lunch for one man every day at one job. Not because we were having an affair because the man was damn lazy and expected me to do so.
> ...


So, claiming she pooped in her pants is less embarrassing than having had a messy period ?


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

re16 said:


> I wish 2022 Bobert was around to talk to 2018 Bobert lol.


Not so. Many of us got the goods through investigation.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

D0nnivain said:


> Talk to a lawyer. If Canada has no fault divorce all the evidence in the world will not impact the division of assets in a divorce. So what is the point of getting evidence? Do you just want to be right? That is valid but it may not help you legally.


Right, it is normal and valid to want confirmation. Just about all of us live in no fault states but still wanted to know for sure. At least that is what I have gleaned reading here.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

jay20 said:


> I want to be sure for me. I will be blamed for the divorce. PI will be $1500 per day. No way of knowing if they get anything either. Would like to find his address first and see if they both show up.


Try one of the many alternatives mentioned.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

DudeInProgress said:


> Doesn’t matter. He doesn’t need to rent a car that can’t be traced back to him. He’s not trying to evade LE or the cartels here.
> 
> Other than that, it’s a good idea.


Just borrow a car from a buddy.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

One time years ago a coworker of mine got a phone call out of the blue from an old BF from high school. 

He had been advised by his shrink to get in touch with some old friends from his past to help ground him and stablize his thought processes. 

He told her he had moved away after school and had gotten a decent job in another state and things were going well however he had been renting a duplex and the people in other duplex were causing problems and up to no good. 

He soon realized they were with the KGB and were spying on him and up to espionage in the country.  He kept gathering evidence and contacting the FBI and CIA but no one would take him seriously. 

One night he had all the evidence and proof he needed and all he had to do was catch them red handed in the act to where no one could deny it. So he got his car keys, got in the car and drove his car right into their kitchen. 

As he was pushing the car door open through all the debris to say, "Ahh HAH!!!" Instead of KGB agents in the act of espionage, he found a middle aged couples sitting at the kitchen table eating green bean casserole and shtting their pants in terror. 

He realized then he was in error and voluntarily went with the police to the psychiatric hospital. 

Now I do not know if your wife is cheating or if you are having some kind of event here. 

But before you go driving your car into any hotel rooms or kicking in anyone's front door, you may want to do a little soul-searching and see if there are other things in your life that aren't quite adding up just right like KGB/CIA agents, aliens etc or at least a little more evidence that some woman's period panties.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

bobert said:


> Using a PI does NOT make anything certain.
> 
> If the PI doesn't find anything, that doesn't necessarily mean she isn't cheating and when someone is to the point of the OP, I doubt it will clear all doubts.
> 
> ...


But, if she has never mentioned going there or does not mention this time, looks quite incriminating. 
No one is suggesting that the PI coming up empty means there is no cheating .


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Megaforce said:


> Either reason, narcissist or cheater or a comb platter, is good enough to divorce. But, he wants confirmation of cheating. I would, too.
> So, if the resources are available and cost is doable, go for it. Or, use a friend.
> If she heads for his house on lunch, and has never mentioned it, that is pretty damning.
> I know the undies have been discussed. So, is it less embarrassing for her to claim she pooped vs had her period? I would think not.
> ...


For how long? How many MORE years though? And what is good enough? One thing we never discuss on here is all the people who want evidence but there never seems to be enough evidence. Some people would take what he has already and have called it a day. How much does he need? I don't think he actually knows the answer to that. That's what I'm trying to get him to consider.

Also, does poo stain underwear as much as blood? Maybe not. Perhaps she doesn't want to discuss that she washed the poop out with her bare hands in his sink. This conversation is super gross as it is, I'm not trying to make excuses because maybe she is cheating. Sure seems like she could be. Or maybe she's just tired of explaining her panties and what happens in them, to them, and with them, to this person... I can't say. I wasn't in the room. By his own admission he is miserable and walking on eggshells and married to a narcissist. He sounds miserable...for years.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> One time years ago a coworker of mine got a phone call out of the blue from an old BF from high school.
> 
> He had been advised by his shrink to get in touch with some old friends from his past to help ground him and stablize his thought processes.
> 
> ...


I thought the suggestion was to follow her.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> For how long? How many MORE years though? And what is good enough? One thing we never discuss on here is all the people who want evidence but there never seems to be enough evidence. Some people would take what he has already and have called it a day. How much does he need? I don't think he actually knows the answer to that. That's what I'm trying to get him to consider.
> 
> Also, does poo stain underwear as much as blood? Maybe not. Perhaps she doesn't want to discuss that she washed the poop out with her bare hands in his sink. This conversation is super gross as it is, I'm not trying to make excuses because maybe she is cheating. Sure seems like she could be. Or maybe she's just tired of explaining her panties and what happens in them, to them, and with them, to this person... I can't say. I wasn't in the room. By his own admission he is miserable and walking on eggshells and married to a narcissist. He sounds miserable...for years.


Right, but try telling folks you divorced because of emotional abuse, especially as a man. Everyone understands the justification for divorcing for infidelity. Not so much for a guy claiming his wife is emotionally abusive.

Additional investigation can be done rapidly and with little cost using one of the PI alternatives suggested.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I did not realize that a messy period meant you were cheating. This whole thing seems bananas. Surely, SURELY there is more than "a sexually mature woman had bloodstains in her underwear after her period."


Uh, she told him she pooped in her pants. No mention of her period. Pooping one's pants is less embarrassing?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> Uh, she told him she pooped in her pants. No mention of her period. Pooping one's pants is less embarrassing?


I don’t think so. But who knows, this whole situation is weird to me. If I found my husband digging in the trash looking for dirty underwear I’d recommend a 5150.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Megaforce said:


> Right, but try telling folks you divorced because of emotional abuse, especially as a man. Everyone understands the justification for divorcing for infidelity. Not so much for a guy claiming his wife is emotionally abusive.
> 
> Additional investigation can be done rapidly and with little cost using one of the PI alternatives suggested.


How many times have I heard a man say "I divorced her because she was a *****."? Oh every time. LOL I'm not trying to be glib or discount you, I'm sorry, I just mean that many people seem to stay in horrible situations for many years. I just hate to see that happening.

But I know that some people NEED TO SEE IT. I get that. I think in most situations like this one though, they don't walk in on the two having sex, and anything less is not enough. That's all I'm trying to say. Figure out where your line is and stick to it, and if you are still miserable without finding that line, gtfo of there. There has to be a sort of boundary on what kind of wife you will tolerate you know what I am trying to say?


----------



## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Megaforce said:


> Uh, she told him she pooped in her pants. No mention of her period. Pooping one's pants is less embarrassing?


No but for a person hoping to shut down a man's intense interest in her panty stains and isn't turned away by period messes...perhaps explosive diarrhea is the next best option to get him out of her undie examining. 

This convo. I can't beleive I'm having it.


----------



## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Yeah that’s all I’m saying. I wonder what else she’s done to make him so suspicious that he’s digging in the trash for soiled underwear. That poor man is on the edge of madness from whatever she has done, jinkies.


We are told to trust our gut. If he has been suspicious for years, presumably there is more. If so, why not look into it?


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> How many times have I heard a man say "I divorced her because she was a ***."? Oh every time. LOL I'm not trying to be glib or discount you, I'm sorry, I just mean that many people seem to stay in horrible situations for many years. I just hate to see that happening.
> 
> But I know that some people NEED TO SEE IT. I get that. I think in most situations like this one though, they don't walk in on the two having sex, and anything less is not enough. That's all I'm trying to say. Figure out where your line is and stick to it, and if you are still miserable without finding that line, gtfo of there. There has to be a sort of boundary on what kind of wife you will tolerate you know what I am trying to say?


I am sure you have heard it. But, having better justification avoids some folks judgment. May help eliminate some of the conjecture that " there are two sides to every story". Not all, because even with cheating, some still try to blame the victim. What does he have to lose, particularly if he uses one of the free alternatives suggested?


----------



## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> No but for a person hoping to shut down a man's intense interest in her panty stains and isn't turned away by period messes...perhaps explosive diarrhea is the next best option to get him out of her undie examining.
> 
> This convo. I can't beleive I'm having it.


Uh, she brought up the soiled undies. No mention that he expressed to her any interest in it, let alone intense interest. No reason for her to think he was interested in examining it.He, merely inquired about her showering at an unusual time, if I I recall.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Megaforce said:


> Uh, she brought up the soiled undies. No mention that he expressed to her any interest in it, let alone intense interest. No reason for her to think he was interested in examining it.He, merely inquired about her showering at an unusual time, if I I recall.


Correct


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

BeyondRepair007 said:


> Why are you going down this road of trying to catch them in the act?
> 
> I know you said you want hard evidence for yourself, but that might never come. Hard evidence could be very difficult to get without some sort of coordinated and staged event.
> 
> Why not make the decision that “yep, she’s cheating” and act on that? You’ll save yourself miles of effort and anxiety. Who cares if she denies it? What does that matter? She probably would deny it even with hard evidence.


I know of quite a few, including me, that had little problem getting hard evidence. Took a day, actually.


----------



## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

bobert said:


> Why do you want to file at fault? If you are in Canada, then you would separate for a year and file due to "irreconcilable differences".
> 
> I understand the appeal of having her (and her AP) publically labeled an adulterer. BTDT. However, there is no point to do that.
> 
> ...


One friend leveraged his wife's cheating into avoiding spousal maintenance, in California, a no fault state. Her potential embarrassment over disclosure caused her to cave. She was, allegedly, deeply religious, orthodox jew. 
23 year marriage. Stay at home wife. Prosperous attorney husband. Saved him millions.


----------



## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> OP - what is up with this? You mean to tell us you've *suspected* this for a long time now but have done *nothing* but sit and cower in the shadows?
> 
> Come on. You're just stalling because you're just like the other guys who occasionally post here who were also too afraid to know the truth, so they continually danced around their suspicions and never did the REAL work to find out. And that's because they were too afraid of knowing the truth because then they couldn't cower in a dark corner anymore doing nothing about it. And if you had wanted the truth, you would have done *something* productive in these last 2 years to find out, and you didn't. I mean honestly, does she have to record a video of herself and her latest play-toy onto your 60" widescreen TV before you *finally* have no choice but to VOICE what you've already known for a long time?
> 
> Find your spine and stop using ridiculous excuses to pretend you don't know the truth because you know that you DO.


Regardless of the delay and the reasons for it, he is taking steps now. Getting proof alleviates future doubt. And, it provides a basis for justifying the divorce to those who would blame him.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Megaforce said:


> I am sure you have heard it. But, having better justification avoids some folks judgment. May help eliminate some of the conjecture that " there are two sides to every story". Not all, because even with cheating, some still try to blame the victim. What does he have to lose, particularly if he uses one of the free alternatives suggested?


Well, a lot of the free alternatives people suggest here are illegal, felonies in fact. So there is his freedom to lose if he goes too far. I'm not saying what is right or wrong for him to do. I just think people should always consider from a perspective outside emotion and do what needs to be done for their own well being. 

I concede the point. I just don't think many people here understand that people are often paranoid and accuse their spouses of cheating constantly too. They also have a gut feeling. I've been on the receiving end of that feeling. There should always be a reasonable line for how far to go. For many reasons.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Longtime Hubby said:


> If it was me, I’d hire a PI. He or she is an expert at this. And, emotions won’t be in play. By that, I mean if you camped out and saw her and him going into his place for lunchtime fun, it could escalate fast. You may get very angry, pound on the door, confront them, beat him up and/or worse. Pay the PI.


If she is a narcissist, he may, actually, be relieved that he now has a concrete, easily understandable justification. 
I was a bit euphoric for two reasons:
1. I now knew Imhad not lost my mind, become paranoid etc.
2. My NP D wife was killing me, slowly. 
3(just thought of another. Her family and our mutual friends and our kids took my side.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Megaforce said:


> One friend leveraged his wife's cheating into avoiding spousal maintenance, in California, a no fault state. Her potential embarrassment over disclosure caused her to cave. She was, allegedly, deeply religious, orthodox jew.
> 23 year marriage. Stay at home wife. Prosperous attorney husband. Saved him millions.


The OP could try to use this information to waive spousal support, but it's the judges discretion. If the agreement isn't fair to both parties, the judge can disregard their agreement and set new terms.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

@jay20 I gotta tell you buddy, I looked through all your posts here and your other thread and I think you are seriously paranoid over very little evidence, actually almost no evidence. 

In your other thread you were really worried because your wife and a coworker wore costumes from the same movie for a dress-up day at work. One where the theme was to dress up as movie characters. One that she had no problem showing you pictures of everyone at work and one of them together. 

Now your worried because she told you she got sick and soiled her panties, then threw them away. Supported by you not finding them. You found a different pair drying that had a blood stain. Which means she had her period, lol. Again nothing there. She took a shower when she got home because she pooped her damn pants. 

The only thing slightly odd is she shaved. I assume you mean her privates. Is that totally out of the ordinary for her?


Dude, there's really nothing here from what I can tell.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Well, I would want to know for sure. Why? Because otherwise, I might spend months or years second
Guessing myself if I did the right thing. Its easy to say "leave her, its not worth it", but a lot harder to actually do.
When you swore an oath for life.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

BigDaddyNY said:


> @jay20 I gotta tell you buddy, I looked through all your posts here and your other thread and I think you are seriously paranoid over very little evidence, actually almost no evidence.
> 
> In your other thread you were really worried because your wife and a coworker wore costumes from the same movie for a dress-up day at work. One where the theme was to dress up as movie characters. One that she had no problem showing you pictures of everyone at work and one of them together.
> 
> ...


Shaving isn't even necessarily that weird. My wife always does it around her period. I'm sure there is a womanly reason for that timing.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

bobert said:


> Shaving isn't even necessarily that weird. My wife always does it around her period. I'm sure there is a womanly reason for that timing.


I get waxed right after my period. Fresh start. Does that mean I’m cheating? 🤪😉

ETA: I’m just being silly. I’m sorry that the OP is so unhappy. I wish he’d take a stand. I’ve never understood people who worry they’ll be blamed for a divorce. Who cares what outside people think? The evidence won’t change the opinion of someone who has already chosen a side…


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I get waxed right after my period. Fresh start. Does that mean I’m cheating? 🤪😉


Absolutely! I bet it's with the waxer lady. Or maybe it's actually a waxer MAN and he gets to take it for the first spin after beautifying it! 

(I'm too dumb to know their job title......)


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

bobert said:


> Absolutely! I bet it's with the waxer lady. Or maybe it's actually a waxer MAN and he gets to take it for the first spin after beautifying it!
> 
> (I'm too dumb to know their job title......)


Omg, it’s very rarely the same waxer lady! Im a ****! I’ll have to tell my husband. Such exciting news! I didn’t know I had it in me. (Ba-doomp-shhh) 😋


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## MrBigBull (6 mo ago)

jay20 said:


> Should I send away her underwear from yesterday? It will likely have semen. Or would loosing them tip her off?


I think it is worth the risk.
Get her freshly stained underwear, have it send to a lab and have it tested if it is semen.
Maybe even ask if they can DNA test the semen against your DNA.
If it is semen, and it is not your DNA, you will have your undeniable proof.

If she asks where her underwear is, just act like a fool and say you do not know.
If she keeps asking, then have a return question ready, something like : what on earth would I be needing your underwear for, I do not know where it is.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Note he has been on here since 2019 and has posted a good number.

I would guess, I haven't gone back and read his other posts, that he has good reason to believe his wife is cheating or has cheated. So he these details may be much more convincing within context.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I don’t think so. But who knows, this whole situation is weird to me. If I found my husband digging in the trash looking for dirty underwear I’d recommend a 5150.


Yeah but, that butt.

Some men have a pantaloon fetish.


----------



## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> Well, a lot of the free alternatives people suggest here are illegal, felonies in fact. So there is his freedom to lose if he goes too far. I'm not saying what is right or wrong for him to do. I just think people should always consider from a perspective outside emotion and do what needs to be done for their own well being.
> 
> I concede the point. I just don't think many people here understand that people are often paranoid and accuse their spouses of cheating constantly too. They also have a gut feeling. I've been on the receiving end of that feeling. There should always be a reasonable line for how far to go. For many reasons.


Yeah, I did not see any felonious methods recommended. Mainly following her or tracking their car. What felonies are you referring to?


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I get waxed right after my period. Fresh start. Does that mean I’m cheating? 🤪😉
> 
> ETA: I’m just being silly. I’m sorry that the OP is so unhappy. I wish he’d take a stand. I’ve never understood people who worry they’ll be blamed for a divorce. Who cares what outside people think? The evidence won’t change the opinion of someone who has already chosen a side…


Actually, evidence of cheating did have the exact effect of folks, including my XW's family, supporting me. I would think it makes a world of difference to people.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

bobert said:


> The OP could try to use this information to waive spousal support, but it's the judges discretion. If the agreement isn't fair to both parties, the judge can disregard their agreement and set new terms.


Apparently, the judge was ok with it in my friend's case. Have to finesse the threat of exposure, though. No explicit threat to avoid extortion charges.
In his case, he subpoenaed the OM. Claimed his testimony was relevant despite infidelity being a non issue as marital assets were squandered, thus relevant to asset division.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> Actually, evidence of cheating did have the exact effect of folks, including my XW's family, supporting me. I would think it makes a world of difference to people.


One would hope. I’m glad that was the case with you. I’ve seen the opposite. Evidence the husband was cheating didn’t matter, the wife was “breaking up the family” because she was too “proud” or “selfish” or one time she was “too insecure” to just deal with her husbands cheating. 🥺


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Megaforce said:


> Yeah, I did not see any felonious methods recommended. Mainly following her or tracking their car. What felonies are you referring to?


VAR, in some states felony offense if one or both parties being recorded do not have knowledge.

Federal wiretap laws cover a broad range of things including hacking into your spouses phone _even if you know their password. 

Most _states have anti stalking laws and trespassing laws which prohibit installing GPS and tracking on anyone, including your spouse, without thier express knowledge, it’s fewer states that allow it without letting someone know and only in cases where the gps installers name is on the title. 

I’m not sure about laws of stealing her panties to get evidence of DNA but that doesn’t sound legal. 

Anyways. As I said… I’m not telling anyone what to do for their own peace of mind… but they probably should try to avoid felonies, crimes and illegal activity especially if they are trying to divorce possibly. Cheating is not illegal or punishable by law in any state I know of but many of the things that have been mentioned (all of the above) likely are.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

QuietRiot said:


> VAR, in some states felony offense if one or both parties being recorded do not have knowledge.
> 
> Federal wiretap laws cover a broad range of things including hacking into your spouses phone _even if you know their password.
> 
> ...


Also sorry the OP is in Canada. I don’t know about any of their laws, would think they are worse than the US? Don’t know. Apologies, check your laws anyways OP. Good luck.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

TAMAT said:


> Note he has been on here since 2019 and has posted a good number.
> 
> I would guess, I haven't gone back and read his other posts, that he has good reason to believe his wife is cheating or has cheated. So he these details may be much more convincing within context.


Go read his other post. He's got nothing.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

bobert said:


> Shaving isn't even necessarily that weird. My wife always does it around her period. I'm sure there is a womanly reason for that timing.


Yeah that was my point. He said she shaved, but said nothing about it being unusual or not.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> I’m not sure about laws of stealing her panties to get evidence of DNA but that doesn’t sound legal.


Panty raid!!!


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> VAR, in some states felony offense if one or both parties being recorded do not have knowledge.
> 
> Federal wiretap laws cover a broad range of things including hacking into your spouses phone _even if you know their password.
> 
> ...


Following her is ok, right?


----------



## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> VAR, in some states felony offense if one or both parties being recorded do not have knowledge.
> 
> Federal wiretap laws cover a broad range of things including hacking into your spouses phone _even if you know their password.
> 
> ...


I think cheating is on the books in Wisconsin as a crime. Just something I read.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Megaforce said:


> Following her is ok, right?


Not if it falls under the legal definition of stalking, which is a crime and includes being followed by someone.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> Following her is ok, right?


We need @EleGirl. She always knows the laws. I’d be very interested. It’s illegal to stalk a girlfriend or boyfriend, I wouldn’t think a spouse would be different. But just following someone isn’t stalking. Like at all, the intent is totally different, you’re just seeing where they’re going and you’re not a threat per se. I dunno.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> I think cheating is on the books in Wisconsin as a crime. Just something I
> One site listedcadultery as illegal in 15 states of 2019. Another had 21 states listed as of 2014. Rarely if ever enforced.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

bobert said:


> Not if it falls under the legal definition of stalking, which is a crime and includes being followed by someone.


I could do some research. My guess is merely following her would not be considered stalking.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Megaforce said:


> Following her is ok, right?


Probably? Lol couldn’t say. 

It just a balancing of risk and what someone is willing to do or risk to do it I guess?


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

TexasMom1216 said:


> We need @EleGirl. She always knows the laws. I’d be very interested. It’s illegal to stalk a girlfriend or boyfriend, I wouldn’t think a spouse would be different. But just following someone isn’t stalking. Like at all, the intent is totally different, you’re just seeing where they’re going and you’re not a threat per se. I dunno.


I believe the difference is if the person being followed/stalked fears for their safety. If his wife doesn't know she is being followed, there is nothing for her to fear. So, not stalking?


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> We need @EleGirl. She always knows the laws. I’d be very interested. It’s illegal to stalk a girlfriend or boyfriend, I wouldn’t think a spouse would be different. But just following someone isn’t stalking. Like at all, the intent is totally different, you’re just seeing where they’re going and you’re not a threat per se. I dunno.


This sounds right.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

> Stalking is defined as repeated and unwanted attention that causes a person to fear for their personal safety or for the safety of someone they know, a definition which qualifies as criminal harassment under the _Criminal Code _of Canada (s. 264).Note Note  While stalking, by definition, makes someone feel unsafe, it can take the form of actions that do not include overt threats of physical violence. Examples include threats to divulge sensitive personal information and unwanted romantic advances that make the person feel unsafe, despite not including threats of physical harm. Stalking can encompass a range of behaviours, such as someone waiting outside a person’s home, school or work, physical or electronic surveillance, damage to property and various kinds of unwanted communication, as further outlined in the _Criminal Code _(ss. 372(2) and (3)). Stalking often involves a pattern of repeated behaviour, as opposed to one occurrence of a harassing phone call, email, or other action.








Section 1: Stalking in Canada, 2014


Description




www150.statcan.gc.ca


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Megaforce said:


> This sounds right.


Perhaps just be careful of trespassing, like on the AP property say.


----------



## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

bobert said:


> Section 1: Stalking in Canada, 2014
> 
> 
> Description
> ...


Sounds like his following his wife would not meet the criteria.
Out of curiosity, what method of detection is available without running afoul of the law, in your opinion?
I take it that you feel,following her is out, as is looking at her phone, tracking their car, recording her.

So, how does one legally discover a spouse cheating?


----------



## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

QuietRiot said:


> VAR, in some states felony offense if one or both parties being recorded do not have knowledge.
> 
> Federal wiretap laws cover a broad range of things including hacking into your spouses phone _even if you know their password.
> 
> ...


I think any guy that sniffs through his wife`s soiled underwear should be locked up, preferably in a mental institution.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> Perhaps just be careful of trespassing, like on the AP property say.


Good advice. He can do it from afar.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

gameopoly5 said:


> I think any guy that sniffs through his wife`s soiled underwear should be locked up, preferably in a mental institution.


He sniffed? Must have missed that.


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Megaforce said:


> Sounds like his following his wife would not meet the criteria.
> Out of curiosity, what method of detection is available without running afoul of the law, in your opinion?
> I take it that you feel,following her is out, as is looking at her phone, tracking their car, recording her.
> 
> So, how does one legally discover a spouse cheating?


Well, I can't be a hypocrite. I tracked the location on my wife's car, went through her phone and devices, recorded her phone calls, and put a VAR in her car.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

bobert said:


> Well, I can't be a hypocrite. I tracked the location on my wife's car, went through her phone and devices, recorded her phone calls, and put a VAR in her car.


Right. In my youth, I did a fair amount of criminal defense. It has been a while, but just cannot see any prosecutor wasting time going after a betrayed spouse who employed these methods. There are all types of technical violations that are never prosecuted( like driving 4 miles an hour over the speed limit, etc).


----------



## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Megaforce said:


> Right. In my youth, I did a fair amount of criminal defense. It has been a while, but just cannot see any prosecutor wasting time going after a betrayed spouse who employed these methods. There are all types of technical violations that are never prosecuted( like driving 4 miles an hour over the speed limit, etc).


I don’t think the concern is that so much as, how pissed is your spouse going to get and then punish you? This kind of stuff can be used as a weapon in the court of divorce. I’d say how the other person reacts is a bigger concern, but I do know of someone who ran afoul of the VAR problem and in a felony state. Not good.


----------



## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> I don’t think the concern is that so much as, how pissed is your spouse going to get and then punish you? This kind of stuff can be used as a weapon in the court of divorce. I’d say how the other person reacts is a bigger concern, but I do know of someone who ran afoul of the VAR problem and in a felony state. Not good.


Right, might not look great, but, just as infidelity is supposed to be irrelevant in no fault states, these types of violations could be as well. Plus, a cheating spouse bringing it up in court, essentially, is highlighting her cheating as well.
Bottom line for me would be employing these methods, whether illegal or not, would be well worth it to get the truth.
Regardless, the method suggested most, some type of surveillance, following them surreptitiously, is not illegal.
I do not know the backstory here, not having read his old stuff. But, if he is so suspicious, and his gut is talking to him, I think he should investigate. 
If his wife truly is an abusive narcissist, even if not cheating, and finds out and gets pissed, what has he lost? A marriage to an abuser?


----------



## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Megaforce said:


> Right, might not look great, but, just as infidelity is supposed to be irrelevant in no fault states, these types of violations could be as well. Plus, a cheating spouse bringing it up in court, essentially, is highlighting her cheating as well.
> Bottom line for me would be employing these methods, whether illegal or not, would be well worth it to get the truth.
> Regardless, the method suggested most, some type of surveillance, following them surreptitiously, is not illegal.
> I do not know the backstory here, not having read his old stuff. But, if he is so suspicious, and his gut is talking to him, I think he should investigate.
> If his wife truly is an abusive narcissist, even if not cheating, and finds out and gets pissed, what has he lost? A marriage to an abuser?


It’s risky for him if she presses charges. So like everything, there’s inherent risk. But if we’re taking about someone’s peace of mind, I guess they need to do a cost/benefit analysis and decide if the proof is worth that risk. I would recommend they read up on the local laws so they’re aware, more information is better than less. 🤷‍♀️


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## Jeffsmith35 (Apr 8, 2021)

The best course of action would be to gather the evidence secretly and use that evidence for his personal decision-making ONLY. NEVER reveal it to her or anyone else, no matter how tempting it may be to let her know how you found out. Just say you can't continue being married to her and leave it at that. You know the score and that's more than enough without elaboration. Any methodology you personally use to make a good, no-regrets decision is okay, and helps you move forward with confidence.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> VAR, in some states felony offense if one or both parties being recorded do not have knowledge.
> 
> Federal wiretap laws cover a broad range of things including hacking into your spouses phone _even if you know their password.
> 
> ...


The easiest is to retain an attorney and file. If the trust is gone, what is point to continuing the charade


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

The hardest part of getting loose from a bad relationship is making one’s mind up and taking the first real step to do so. Yes, it hurts.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> The easiest is to retain an attorney and file. If the trust is gone, what is point to continuing the charade


I agree. It’s irretrievably broken now. I also worry in cases like this, when is enough enough. This can easily go from information gathering to stalking. Some people find their evidence quickly, but we really don’t hear about the people spying on their spouse for years do we?


----------



## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Megaforce said:


> Right, might not look great, but, just as infidelity is supposed to be irrelevant in no fault states, these types of violations could be as well. Plus, a cheating spouse bringing it up in court, essentially, is highlighting her cheating as well.
> Bottom line for me would be employing these methods, whether illegal or not, would be well worth it to get the truth.
> Regardless, the method suggested most, some type of surveillance, following them surreptitiously, is not illegal.
> I do not know the backstory here, not having read his old stuff. But, if he is so suspicious, and his gut is talking to him, I think he should investigate.
> If his wife truly is an abusive narcissist, even if not cheating, and finds out and gets pissed, what has he lost? A marriage to an abuser?


I do think people need to be more careful with the VAR… that actually can lead to jail time if the spouse finds it and presses charges. A felony does not look good in a divorce case. Again, at the mercy of a gaslighting narcissist, what will they do if they find it? Always know the risks of what you’re doing and proceed accordingly. Know the laws.


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> Always know the risks of what you’re doing and proceed accordingly. Know the laws.


The difficulty is the average citizen has no idea what the laws are. And what they actually are is decided in a court by a judge that may not like the way your hair is combed.

Even the attorneys and police only know what they think the law is.


----------



## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> The difficulty is the average citizen has no idea what the laws are. And what they actually are is decided in a court by a judge that may not like the way your hair is combed.
> 
> Even the attorneys and police only know what they think the law is.


Yes I agree. It’s a horrible process anyways you simply don’t know what kind of a judge you’ll get. There is only one person you can control, that’s yourself. Maybe the OP will come back in 2 more years and update us.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

bobert said:


> Well, I can't be a hypocrite. I tracked the location on my wife's car, went through her phone and devices, recorded her phone calls, and put a VAR in her car.


And did those efforts make any actual difference in the final outcome? As in did you learn anything you needed to know that you didn’t know by other means?


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Rus47 said:


> And did those efforts make any actual difference in the final outcome? As in did you learn anything you needed to know that you didn’t know by other means?


Hmm. 

Prior to going through her phone, tracking her, etc. she was cold, distant, annoyed, easily aggravated, guarding her devices (taking them into the bathroom with her, under her pillow, no where to be found when she was at work, etc). So all red flags that I explained away. 

When I looked at her phone the first time there was one text from a guy, and it said "no worries". This was received after she fell asleep, it was from a problematic guy she allegedly stopped contacting years prior, and it was the only text in the conversation, so the assumption was that she deleted the rest of it. 

She also had a text conversation to a female friend, that only had a few texts in it. So, she deleted those as well. She doesn't normally delete texts.

I checked her internet history and there were some odd searches, but I look at weird **** too. The only one of real concern was that she searched for non-latex condoms. We didn't use condoms because we were NTNP (not trying, not preventing) at that time, and she doesn't have a latex allergy. One of my kids does, but he was 9 at the time so she wasn't just making sure he was safe.

Checked her bank statement and the next day she spent around $20 at a pharmacy. 

Looked at her phone again and she had another conversation with the guy from above:

OM: "Don't tire yourself out today. You'll need some energy for later 😉
Wife: Are we still on for tonight? 
OM: Yes ma'am
Wife: You're awesome! 😘 
OM: It comes naturally 😉 
Wife: Call me when you can! 🙂

Allegedly, they were talking about a work party being thrown for a colleague, and there was SM pictures to prove it but she was late coming home.

At that point I couldn't hold back my suspicion any longer and blurted out "I know you're ****ing *___*". She broke down, denied, then began her two months of trickle truthing. 

That could have backfired though and I didn't have the without a doubt proof that many BS want, and the story she told me was so far from the truth that it's almost funny. 

She later confessed everything in a like 15,000 word email. That's when I got the full story, not from snooping. 

When I decided to stay with her, monitoring her devices, location, etc. helped match her actions to her words. But honestly, I didn't look at her stuff that much and it was consensual. 

So, do with that what you want. My whole house is sick and my cognitive function feels like it has seen better days. I don't even know what I'm trying to say.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> Yes I agree. It’s a horrible process anyways you simply don’t know what kind of a judge you’ll get. There is only one person you can control, that’s yourself. Maybe the OP will come back in 2 more years and update us.


Then ask for a jury trial.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> And did those efforts make any actual difference in the final outcome? As in did you learn anything you needed to know that you didn’t know by other means?


My investigation got me absolute proof. This was the determining evidence that led me to divorce and gave me peace of mind that I was justified. Also made me realize I had no paranoia and had not imagined or misinterpreted things.
I was married to an abusive narcissist. But, I was determined to stick it out, keep my vows. This was the bright line, the cheating, however. Got me off my ass and out.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Megaforce said:


> Then ask for a jury trial.


For a divorce?


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Megaforce said:


> My investigation got me absolute proof. This was the determining evidence that led me to divorce and gave me peace of mind that I was justified. Also made me realize I had no paranoia and had not imagined or misinterpreted things.
> I was married to an abusive narcissist. But, I was determined to stick it out, keep my vows. This was the bright line, the cheating, however. Got me off my ass and out.


In hindsight, do you think you should have divorced her for being an abusive narcissist instead of waiting for the cheating proof? 

Honest question, not poking at you. And I think has relevance to many threads here.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Megaforce said:


> Uh, she told him she pooped in her pants. No mention of her period. Pooping one's pants is less embarrassing?


 There is the possibility that there are two pairs of underwear involved. One which has been discarded, another which has been washed.

Perhaps the more incriminating one was discarded. 
Or perhaps the feces-containing underwear was discarded and a pair stained by menstruation was washed.

There are multiple possibilities.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

QuietRiot said:


> I do think people need to be more careful with the VAR… that actually can lead to jail time if the spouse finds it and presses charges. A felony does not look good in a divorce case. Again, at the mercy of a gaslighting narcissist, what will they do if they find it? Always know the risks of what you’re doing and proceed accordingly. Know the laws.


 True. 

At the same time, a VAR might be used to gain the information needed to find "legally copacetic" proof. The VAR can be used to gain knowledge, but once that knowledge is obtained, the existence of a VAR or recording need not every be revealed.


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## jay20 (Oct 31, 2019)

I have a VOC in her car and one in the bedroom. No proof yet. The Google timeline that's not even working properly for some reason emailed her 2 days after I enabled it. She then flagged the email. I also shared her Google location with me. Today she turned off Google location. I would like to share her location with find ipone but can't afford another email or notification. I'll get a GPS for the vehicle. Could someone test sharing location on find iPhone and let me know of any notifications? I have an android so I am not the best with these. She also has an apple watch so I'm not sure what notifications get sent there.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

jay20 said:


> I have a VOC in her car and one in the bedroom. No proof yet. The Google timeline that's not even working properly for some reason emailed her 2 days after I enabled it. She then flagged the email. I also shared her Google location with me. Today she turned off Google location. I would like to share her location with find ipone but can't afford another email or notification. I'll get a GPS for the vehicle. Could someone test sharing location on find iPhone and let me know of any notifications? I have an android so I am not the best with these. She also has an apple watch so I'm not sure what notifications get sent there.


iPhone announces everything. Location services are a big one, it always announces changes to that. Immediately. 

Soooo, she is already on to you with the google tracking. This is not going to end well.


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## jay20 (Oct 31, 2019)

QuietRiot said:


> iPhone announces everything. Location services are a big one, it always announces changes to that. Immediately.
> 
> Soooo, she is already on to you with the google tracking. This is not going to end well.


It would be better if it notified immediately. I could then acknowledge and delete them. Didn't expect google to wait so long to notify the change.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

jay20 said:


> It would be better if it notified immediately. I could then acknowledge and delete them. Didn't expect google to wait so long to notify the change.


My phone asks me for permission to grant access if done from another device, then all my other devices get notifications. You can get in to her phone with a password to do this? Also “find my iPhone” works with other devices I have, and sometimes when I’m looking for say… my Headphones (I lose them a lot) it notifies me that I’m looking for them, so I would think using one of her own devices to see where she is might not be a good idea either?


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

QuietRiot said:


> My phone asks me for permission to grant access if done from another device, then all my other devices get notifications. You can get in to her phone with a password to do this? Also “find my iPhone” works with other devices I have, and sometimes when I’m looking for say… my Headphones (I lose them a lot) it notifies me that I’m looking for them, so I would think using one of her own devices to see where she is might not be a good idea either?


To clarify, it sends me a notification flag on my phone “your iPods were last seen” with a location pin. And I get flags for “Your iPods are near by, play a sound?”


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## jay20 (Oct 31, 2019)

QuietRiot said:


> My phone asks me for permission to grant access if done from another device, then all my other devices get notifications. You can get in to her phone with a password to do this? Also “find my iPhone” works with other devices I have, and sometimes when I’m looking for say… my Headphones (I lose them a lot) it notifies me that I’m looking for them, so I would think using one of her own devices to see where she is might not be a good idea either?


How about just sharing you're location with someone? I can use her phone and password. Some features need face scan to access" location history on apple maps".


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

jay20 said:


> How about just sharing you're location with someone? I can use her phone and password. Some features need face scan to access" location history on apple maps".


I am only able to share my location with other iPhone users in the text messages section… you can implement sharing location for a certain amount of time or indefinitely. I have never tried with an android user but let me check real quick.


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## jay20 (Oct 31, 2019)

QuietRiot said:


> I am only able to share my location with other iPhone users in the text messages section… you can implement sharing location for a certain amount of time or indefinitely. I have never tried with an android user but let me check real quick.


What about sharing location from contact lists?


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

I checked my options for someone I know has an android and I do see the option to share location there… I’ve never seen that before. I’m not sure if it works, and I don’t actually want to share my location with them so I can’t test it sorry.


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## jay20 (Oct 31, 2019)

I found that google will send an email notifying that your sharing your location with 1 person "me". Not sure if that happened but if it did and she hasn't said anything to me about it....


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## PortuguesMan (Feb 25, 2021)

Try the location of the social media
..Facebook,Instagram collect the GPS info about daily routine,my wife ,when I catch her,she deleted the Google maps history,but not the data from social media,and all the info, tracking location,even the time spend in places was there...

Try the social media history of location


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## jay20 (Oct 31, 2019)

PortuguesMan said:


> Try the location of the social media
> ..Facebook,Instagram collect the GPS info about daily routine,my wife ,when I catch her,she deleted the Google maps history,but not the data from social media,and all the info, tracking location,even the time spend in places was there...
> 
> Try the social media history of location


Where did you find that data?


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## jay20 (Oct 31, 2019)

jay20 said:


> Where did you find that data?


Looks like facebook discontinued this feature.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

@jay20 See how time consuming, frustrating, unproductive it is to play detective? I always wonder in these situations whether just filing is the least dramatic option. After filing tell the suspect it is up to them to convince that there is no cause. Your suspect is on to your snooping and has said nothing to you. Doesn't that mean she doesn't care whether you stay or leave, doesn't care what you do or think? Or knows that she has nothing to be concerned about. Is that someone you want to spend the rest of your days with?


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

I think the GPS on the car is a great idea. No stupid notifications to worry about. Most importantly, don't show your hand. Continue to behave as if you suspect nothing.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

I believe you just need to get a lawyer and end this. You have more proof then you really need.


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## Jeffsmith35 (Apr 8, 2021)

If iphone, look at "Significant Locations". It's kind of hidden in menus, but it will show frequently visited locations.


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## ArthurGPym (Jun 28, 2021)

OP you're getting obsessed. Please, please just divorce her and move on before you make a monumental fool out of yourself.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

ArthurGPym said:


> OP you're getting obsessed. Please, please just divorce her and move on before you make a monumental fool out of yourself.


Personally I think the OP has some seriously unfounded paranoia. Regardless of the source though, he has lost all trust in his wife and I agree divorce seems to be the best course of action.


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## ArthurGPym (Jun 28, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Personally I think the OP has some seriously unfounded paranoia. Regardless of the source though, he has lost all trust in his wife and I agree divorce seems to be the best course of action.


Bro, is she cheating? Judging from her Tweets she is at the very least cheating virtually. Who cares? She is doing something that causes her spouse emotional and psychological harm with no care for his feelings or respect for him as her husband. She is abusing him and he needs to cut bait.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

ArthurGPym said:


> Bro, is she cheating? Judging from her Tweets she is at the very least cheating virtually. Who cares? She is doing something that causes her spouse emotional and psychological harm with no care for his feelings or respect for him as her husband. She is abusing him and he needs to cut bait.


What tweets? I don't recall seeing anything about tweets.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

From this thread:

Monday night she shaved after just coming off her period.

Tuesday she showered after work because she said she didn't feel well and had an accident while on a walk at lunch and threw away the panties . (He searched the garbage for the them, which makes no sense, why would she bring home ****ty panties to throw away?)

He found blood stained panties hanging to dry - right after she got off her period.

That is the entirety of his "evidence" presented in this thread. These aren't a pattern, but a one off. 


In his previous thread the ONLY evidence was a coworker and his wife dressed in costumes from the same movie for a work related dress up day with a movie character theme. One that she made no attempt to hide. Actually she sent him pics of the group and her with the coworker. In fact he said there was no other evidence and even though she may keep her phone with her most time, she leaves it around sometimes and he has looked at it with her knowledge and she wasn't bothered by it.


I don't see anything here, do you?


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## MrBigBull (6 mo ago)

Wow, absolutely wow.
10 pages, 182 posts, and not one reply from the OP.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

MrBigBull said:


> Wow, absolutely wow.
> 10 pages, 182 posts, and not one reply from the OP.


He was posting less than 12 hours ago.


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## MrBigBull (6 mo ago)

QuietRiot said:


> He was posting less than 12 hours ago.


Darn, mixed up two threads.
Yes, you are right, in this one the OP is making replies.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

bobert said:


> Hmm.
> 
> Prior to going through her phone, tracking her, etc. she was cold, distant, annoyed, easily aggravated, guarding her devices (taking them into the bathroom with her, under her pillow, no where to be found when she was at work, etc). So all red flags that I explained away.
> 
> ...


and you took that back? Geez….. bad move.


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## jay20 (Oct 31, 2019)

Jeffsmith35 said:


> If iphone, look at "Significant Locations". It's kind of hidden in menus, but it will show frequently visited locations.


Need face recognition to access this on her phone.


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## jay20 (Oct 31, 2019)

So I got the co-workers address and she was not there on Thursday like I thought. I do feel like it could just be paranoia but my gut is saying something is up. 
Google sent another email of friday about sharing location with me but it was unread this time. Not sure if she saw it or not. I deleted it. Saturday she turned off location on google. She has said nothing about this.


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## jay20 (Oct 31, 2019)

I could ask her co-worker female friend if they went for a walk on Tuesday to see if she is Lying about that.


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## Exit37 (3 mo ago)

jay20 said:


> Need face recognition to access this on her phone.


Or you need to know her phone passcode.


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## Exit37 (3 mo ago)

OP, quit messing with Google location, it notifies her when changes are made and your continued messing with that now has now alerted her that you are trying to track her. Leave it alone. Get the logistimatics GPS that I recommended in my last post, install it and have some patience.

For this to work she needs to think you are blissfully unaware of her actions. Get the GPS installed then cool it and let the GPS and VAR work. Do your best to act like normal.


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## jay20 (Oct 31, 2019)

Exit37 said:


> Or you need to know her phone passcode.


I've tried her password and it asks for face recognition for access.


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## jay20 (Oct 31, 2019)

Exit37 said:


> OP, quit messing with Google location, it notifies her when changes are made and your continued messing with that now has now alerted her that you are trying to track her. Leave it alone. Get the logistimatics GPS that I recommended in my last post, install it and have some patience.
> 
> For this to work she needs to think you are blissfully unaware of her actions. Get the GPS installed then cool it and let the GPS and VAR work. Do your best to act like normal.


Ya. I ****ed up there. Figured google would just notify right away not days later. Getting the GPS.


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## Exit37 (3 mo ago)

jay20 said:


> I've tried her password and it asks for face recognition for access.


Once you “try again” with face recognition two or three times it should give you the passcode option. I believe that is an iPhone requirement for all apps…


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## jay20 (Oct 31, 2019)

Exit37 said:


> Once you “try again” with face recognition two or three times it should give you the passcode option. I believe that is an iPhone requirement for all apps…


Ok thanks. I don't get much along access to the phone but I'll have a look when I can. Would this alert a apple watch?


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

Hey, you ever just thought about forgetting the paranoia stuff and just putting the wood to her hella good. So that way she knows you love her, you know you exist in her world and then maybe she wouldn't NEED to stray?


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

There is a difference between the phone lock password and the apple password. I think it would ask for her account password if he fails the Face ID on that particular setting. How do you have so much access to her phone without her knowing?


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## jay20 (Oct 31, 2019)

QuietRiot said:


> There is a difference between the phone lock password and the apple password. I think it would ask for her account password if he fails the Face ID on that particular setting. How do you have so much access to her phone without her knowing?


I don't have much access. When she is sleeping would be the most but she sleeps light and this is her clock so it's the first thing she looks at if she wakes up.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

jay20 said:


> I don't have much access. When she is sleeping would be the most but she sleeps light and this is her clock so it's the first thing she looks at if she wakes up.


Brother, give it up and start living! Life can't go on like that. All the time spent being paranoid, was and is time you could spend being "that" man she wants, the one she married! Dude start living again with her, trust till there's not a reason to trust! So far you've shown absolutely nothing to set off the Spidey senses. Maybe you should consider some therapy??


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

jay20 said:


> I've tried her password and it asks for face recognition for access.


Hold up a photo of her face?


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Tatsuhiko said:


> Hold up a photo of her face?


Well now that wouldn’t be a very secure biometric security would it.

Using photos won’t work.
Holding the phone up to the person’s sleeping face won’t work.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Some fun reading for a Monday morning.

“_Face ID matches against depth information, which isn’t found in print or 2D digital photographs. It's designed to protect against spoofing by masks or other techniques through the use of sophisticated anti-spoofing neural networks. Face ID is even attention-aware, and Face ID with a mask will always confirm attention. Face ID recognizes if your eyes are open and your attention is directed towards the device. This makes it more difficult for someone to unlock your device without your knowledge (such as when you are sleeping)._”






About Face ID advanced technology


Learn how Face ID helps protect your information on your iPhone and iPad Pro.



support.apple.com


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## Exit37 (3 mo ago)

jay20 said:


> I don't have much access. When she is sleeping would be the most but she sleeps light and this is her clock so it's the first thing she looks at if she wakes up.


The passcode is not her apple ID, it's her (usually) 4 digit numeric passcode. Give it a try if you know what it is. Take teh phone to a different room while she is sleeping.


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## StillGettingWiser (6 mo ago)

OP you're twisting yourself into a pretzel with this. It has to be maddening using this much of your time and effort playing marriage detective.

Pull the bandaid off and go guns blazing. When she is home grab her phone and ask her what the code is. 

It'll probably play out like this:

Her: I'm not giving it to you. You're being so controlling!

Tell her there is privacy in a marriage, such as using the bathroom, but secrets have no place in your marriage. If there are no secrets on her phone she should have no issue with you looking at it.

You ask for the code again. If she refuses you inform her that her actions are telling you there are marriage ending secrets being kept from you, and you are left with no option but to end the marriage.

Her reaction will tell you everything you need to know without snooping. If she still refuses to give you the code, hand the phone back and tell her don't come back and give you the phone in twenty minutes, as it means nothing at that point.

If things are on the up and up you'll get the code. You may get the code and find what you suspect is going on, or she'll just show how nasty of a human being she can be without giving the code.

Stop playing the runaround game with her.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

She'll never be able to prove to you it's not cheating, so you may as well just give up and realize you'll never trust her no matter what, and without trust, there is no real marriage.


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## masterofmasters (Apr 2, 2021)

11 pages and OP is still on "getting a GPS tracker." wondering what the reply limit is. this thread might reach 2000 by saturday.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

MrBigBull said:


> Wow, absolutely wow.
> 10 pages, 182 posts, and not one reply from the OP.


He is righting the ship, or writing the plot?


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Just do the digging and get back to us. This should be a relatively easy investigation.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> For a divorce?


I thought he was referring to criminal charges stemming from recording.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

SunCMars said:


> He is righting the ship, or writing the plot?


One would hope righting the ship, but more likely trying to keep his breathing apparatus above water. If indeed it’s writing the plot then would we ever know?


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> In hindsight, do you think you should have divorced her for being an abusive narcissist instead of waiting for the cheating proof?
> 
> Honest question, not poking at you. And I think has relevance to many threads here.


Yes, but we had kids. And, prior to my lawyer, a former psychologist, pointing me toward Cluster B research, I would not have labeled her a narcissist. Of course, I was aware she was abusive. But, I just sucked it up. Live and learn.

At least I have good kids.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

Wolfman1968 said:


> There is the possibility that there are two pairs of underwear involved. One which has been discarded, another which has been washed.
> 
> Perhaps the more incriminating one was discarded.
> Or perhaps the feces-containing underwear was discarded and a pair stained by menstruation was washed.
> ...


Right. I was just responding to someone's suggestion that, perhaps, she fabricated the poop story as it was less embarrassing than a messy period story. Seemed to me the former would be just as embarrassing, if not more so.


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## Jimi007 (5 mo ago)

Get your ducks in a row. I see the flood coming your way. See an attorney ASAP


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

jay20 said:


> I've suspected of an affair for sometime with her co-worker but I believe my wife is a covert narcissist and is gas lighting me.
> Monday night I notice that she shaved and also just came off her period. Tuesday she oddly had a shower right after work when I took my kids for a bike ride. When I noticed she said it's because she wasn't feeling well and pooped her pants a bit during a walk at lunch time. She told me not to bring it up again and that she had to throw her underwear out. Right after supper she did laundry which also seemed odd. I checked all the garbage's and no underwear. The next morning I noticed stained underwear hanging to dry. The stain was in the front not the back and looked more like blood stains.
> 
> So I turned on google maps tracking but I couldn't find yesterdays history. It's just blank. So this morning I added myself to her shared google maps location and can see her location in with some lag at times. I don't know where the co-corker lives but it's very near their work. They get 1 hour lunch breaks and he goes home everyday.
> ...


 It looks like you have lost all trust in your wife , 
I can't see the need for hiring a PI as I am of the mind if you need to hire a pi the marriage is over anyway , it is more self respecting to just walk away ,

what is to be gained for the marriage I am not only talking to the OP but to all the ones that Advise him to spy in all forms, 

I have seen this here so many times a poster comes and thinks he or she is been cheated on , and then the crap starts , get a recorder , bug your car bug her car , her handbag ,get a PI must have given too long looking at tv ,

What I am saying is when is your relationship broken , what do you need to have too walk away , 
how far are you willing to go to try and fool yourself into thinking you can or it is even worth getting back 

I look at the PI thing as if my wife had so little trust in me that she paid a PI to spy on me and having found nothing I would think it is over , I love my wife but more so I know she loves me , if that feeling of been loved dies which it has to for you to think she is playing around your back it is time to pull up you big boy knickers and talk to them and see where your going , we can't tell if your wife is a cheater as we have only your side of the story to go on , but we can give you some light on what are the typs of things that a cheating wife does , 

washing her knickers is not one of them , and having a stain on them in not part of it, but spying and doing your PI thing on her knickers sounds like it is time to walk away if she can't tell you the truth about what happened it shows there is a brake down , 

when something is not right it is time to put it right without running around spying on each other ,


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## PortuguesMan (Feb 25, 2021)

jay20 said:


> Looks like facebook discontinued this feature.


My Facebook still collect the data .I just downloaded the info...

From Instagram..I didn't find that info anymore


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## Jimi007 (5 mo ago)

frenchpaddy said:


> It looks like you have lost all trust in your wife ,
> I can't see the need for hiring a PI as I am of the mind if you need to hire a pi the marriage is over anyway , it is more self respecting to just walk away ,
> 
> what is to be gained for the marriage I am not only talking to the OP but to all the ones that Advise him to spy in all forms,
> ...


Everything you say is true , yet I would personally want to know. Not that it would change the outcome. Just a personal choice


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## Jeffsmith35 (Apr 8, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> She'll never be able to prove to you it's not cheating, so you may as well just give up and realize you'll never trust her no matter what, and without trust, there is no real marriage.


You described my situation perfectly. Very wise words.


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## Leeame (Apr 13, 2021)

My unpopular opinion is that you need to be honest with her and if she says she is not you have to decide if you trust her. If you don't, you need therapy regardless. 
You don't want to be sneaking around and spying on her. 
Then if you don't find anything and she realizes you were spying and not trusting her she may just walk out on you and you'll lose her over your own mistakes. 

This is your wife. You should be able to sit down together and hold hands and give her the opportunity to hear your concerns and respond to them. If you can't do that with your partner there's already issues that need addressing in therapy. 

Honesty. Transparent communication. Love. Those are the things that shape a healthy happy marriage. Make sure you have those first and foremost.


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