# Long marriage...not much sex.



## So tired (Apr 7, 2012)

Married 21 years, married very young, and have had sexual issues since day one. We "messed around" before marriage, but had sex only few times. We had tried to abstain because we are Christians, but stumbled a few times. It was not enjoyable for me at all because of the emotional stress that I was doing something very wrong. Once married, the sex did not happen as it should have. I had no desire for him. In fact, I've never wanted to have sex with him, ever. It was shocking to me and disappointing for both of us. He has always thought that I didn't have any sex drive. That's not true, I do, and can take care of myself just fine. He would probably faint if he knew that. Anyway, I've prayed and tried to change it and just can't. In marriage counseling recently our therapist explained how I've developed an aversion to him. After years of doing a "chore" that has been difficult, it's normal that I feel the way I do. We haven't had sex for almost a year and the last time we did I felt physically sick. Now, it's to the point, any touch at all from him makes me cringe. He's willing to live this way, but I'm not, but am struggling. Has anyone else dealt with something like this? He's a good guy and I wish we had the connection and chemistry we need. After so long, it's obvious it's not there and never has been.


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## DanG (Aug 10, 2011)

Please forgive my terse response and possible solution to your diagnosed "aversion": As a Christian, is this how you should treat a other person, and "nice guy" at that - with such cruelty? At least, re-"frame" your problem in biblical terms of being his Christian wife. Maybe think of having sex in terms of joyfully following the word and intent of God to strengthen your marriage and the bond therein - as was God's plan.
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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

So Tired,
Sadly you are going to get some heat here. Not from me. 

Did you feel desire for him before you married?

Was he just terrible in bed but you were afraid to tell him, or did you tell him and he didn't listen?

Or did he do things outside the bedroom that turned you off?

Let me make a gentle observation. If you found him physically unattractive from the start, and you married him anyway, you should let him go now. Let him find someone he has a shot at happiness with. 

If however, he was a major contributor to where you have ended up, then perhaps you can find some help here. 



So tired said:


> Married 21 years, married very young, and have had sexual issues since day one. We "messed around" before marriage, but had sex only few times. We had tried to abstain because we are Christians, but stumbled a few times. It was not enjoyable for me at all because of the emotional stress that I was doing something very wrong. Once married, the sex did not happen as it should have. I had no desire for him. In fact, I've never wanted to have sex with him, ever. It was shocking to me and disappointing for both of us. He has always thought that I didn't have any sex drive. That's not true, I do, and can take care of myself just fine. He would probably faint if he knew that. Anyway, I've prayed and tried to change it and just can't. In marriage counseling recently our therapist explained how I've developed an aversion to him. After years of doing a "chore" that has been difficult, it's normal that I feel the way I do. We haven't had sex for almost a year and the last time we did I felt physically sick. Now, it's to the point, any touch at all from him makes me cringe. He's willing to live this way, but I'm not, but am struggling. Has anyone else dealt with something like this? He's a good guy and I wish we had the connection and chemistry we need. After so long, it's obvious it's not there and never has been.


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

So tired you aren't alone. My wife and I are in a similar situation.

We are both Christians, and my wife was a virgin when we married. We have been married for 15 years but my wife has never been desirous of sex the entire time.

The first few years, sex was so painful for her that even penetration was impossible except for literally a handful of times. After our first child it got better and we were hoping things would develop sexually. They never did.

We currently just started seeing a sex therapist, but since we just had our first session this Friday it's too soon to tell if it's going to help or not. We have spent a lot of time though outside of those classes discussing how we both feel about each other bluntly (but lovingly). We both did a personal write up alone (spelling out what we feel we aren't getting, but need, from the other), and then we shared them. We discussed them together (but let the other speak w/o interruption, and tried to keep voices calm).

That helped fix some things, but mostly it made it more clear to us what we each need to work on. Both in deed and attitude/love towards each other.

I'd highly recommend write ups, and hold nothing back (do it in love as much as you can muster).

Not going to give a sermon but here are two verses to consider:
Is your husband an Eph 5:25 husband? (if not that can explain a lot about your feelings towards him, he's not doing all he should).

Are you two both being 1 Cor 7:5 spouses?

I'd also recommend getting yourself checked out by a gyno to see if there are perhaps some other issues at play as well (hormones and any physical issues).


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## So tired (Apr 7, 2012)

DanG said:


> Please forgive my terse response and possible solution to your diagnosed "aversion": As a Christian, is this how you should treat a other person, and "nice guy" at that - with such cruelty? At least, re-"frame" your problem in biblical terms of being his Christian wife. Maybe think of having sex in terms of joyfully following the word and intent of God to strengthen your marriage and the bond therein - as was God's plan.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## So tired (Apr 7, 2012)

I feel like a failure as a wife because of this. Not being able to provide for you husband in this way is a horrible feeling. I suppose it's easy for people who've never experienced this to say, "just do it". I just wish it were that simple.
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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I hope there's something really great waiting for this poor man in heaven because he's suffered terribly down here. It is really pretty incredible what humans are capable of doing to each other.


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## So tired (Apr 7, 2012)

I had some attraction for him before marriage and we "played". As I said, sex only a few times, because we were trying to abstain. So, it wasn't enjoyable, because I was stressed about the decision to follow through with it. After marriage, I figured I would want to have sex with him, so we were both shocked when things weren't as we expected. He's not bad in bed....I'm just not attracted to him in a way that I need to be. It's not a choice I've made. Something is just missing. I've tried for a very long time to make it better, it hasn't worked. And, there are things that haven't helped. He's began gaining weight as soon as we were married and has struggled with it for years. He's now close to 100 lbs. overweight. He's miserable with himself, has multiple medical problems, but does little to change it. This is NOT the reason for our problems though. It breaks my heart that he doesn't have what he wants and needs. He hasn't gotten what he expected, but neither have I. It's a painful situation...period.
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## LeslieH (Apr 3, 2012)

I think if I were 100 lbs overweight, no one would want me to touch them either. 

How is your weight situation? Do you cook the meals and purchase household groceries? I often counsel people on weight loss and usually if one spouse is trying to lose weight, they need the full support and the participation of the other spouse. If you have control over what is cooked and consumed at home, you can help him make healthier food choices. Plus, if there are health concerns, taking charge of his diet could also save his life.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

He didn't become 100 lbs overweight overnight and even if he is fat, he deserves to feel loved by a wife who promised as much. When I got married, I assumed my wife's appearance would change, either gradually through time, or suddenly in a car crash or a fire. Nobody knows what they or their spouse will look like at the end of the day. The man is probably at least 42 and has forgotten what being loved feels like. It's no wonder he's gained weight! Food is as close to comfort as he's gonna get until the grim reaper finally pays him a mercy call.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Tired,
This isn't a debate club, the intent is to be helpful. You had attraction before marriage - and then suddenly you are married and you don't. That doesn't make sense unless - suddenly he was pressuring you for sex constantly and quickly got you to a bad place mentally. 

Are you trying to decide if you want to stay married? 




So tired said:


> I had some attraction for him before marriage and we "played". As I said, sex only a few times, because we were trying to abstain. So, it wasn't enjoyable, because I was stressed about the decision to follow through with it. After marriage, I figured I would want to have sex with him, so we were both shocked when things weren't as we expected. He's not bad in bed....I'm just not attracted to him in a way that I need to be. It's not a choice I've made. Something is just missing. I've tried for a very long time to make it better, it hasn't worked. And, there are things that haven't helped. He's began gaining weight as soon as we were married and has struggled with it for years. He's now close to 100 lbs. overweight. He's miserable with himself, has multiple medical problems, but does little to change it. This is NOT the reason for our problems though. It breaks my heart that he doesn't have what he wants and needs. He hasn't gotten what he expected, but neither have I. It's a painful situation...period.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

My wife felt like she might have a healthy sex drive before marriage too. Best we can figure it's that before marriage all we did is basically foreplay (w/o touching genitals) for upwards of an hour. Let's face it, that's pretty hot. Still to this day I can coax some sort of mood out of my wife by touching her (unless she's totally exhausted).

After the marriage the expectation is that you'll do the types of things you did before marriage for say 5-10 minutes and then sex is expected to be the next step. If the desire for sex in specific isn't there, then you've got big problem like what my wife and I have (and at some level what you have with your husband).

Your husband should focus on exercise more though, as it can't hurt your feelings towards him (respect as well as attraction). It also is going to be critical for his long term health.

I'd strongly recommend seeing a sex therapist to get at the bottom of why he makes you cringe (unless you already know yourself).


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## DanG (Aug 10, 2011)

RE: "And, there are things that haven't helped. He's began gaining weight as soon as we were married and has struggled with it for years. He's now close to 100 lbs. overweight. He's miserable with himself, has multiple medical problems, but does little to change it."

@ Tired: We may be getting somewhere. For a guy, being too "nice" and lacking a strong assertive personality USUALLY is problematic for providing that "something" that is missing in a - your - sexual relationship. The weight problem and lack of successes in dealing with it is just as problematic. I STRONGLY advise you go to What is the Red Pill? | Married Man Sex Life. and BOTH of you take the "Red Pill.". There are Christians who have asked the site's author to publish a Christian version of his books/methodology. You should purchase both of his publications. But, if you take the time to read his blog, you will get a pretty good idea of what both of you need to do to add/regain that "something" that has been missing - for over 20 years. Try it. You'll like it!
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## So tired (Apr 7, 2012)

LeslieH said:


> I think if I were 100 lbs overweight, no one would want me to touch them either.
> 
> How is your weight situation? Do you cook the meals and purchase household groceries? I often counsel people on weight loss and usually if one spouse is trying to lose weight, they need the full support and the participation of the other spouse. If you have control over what is cooked and consumed at home, you can help him make healthier food choices. Plus, if there are health concerns, taking charge of his diet could also save his life.


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## So tired (Apr 7, 2012)

I'm physically healthy, a normal weight, I exercise several times a week. I've encouraged him throughout the marriage and prepare healthy meals and eat normal portions. He's always made poor choices when he's outside the home..eating fast food daily. He says it's an addiction and is in the process of getting weight loss surgery (I think that's a bad idea). I realize that he may be using the food to fill a void...related to our marriage. But, there are also issues from before I was around that may be contributing. We talked repeatedly and he's starting seeing a counselor and hopefully that will help him.
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## So tired (Apr 7, 2012)

I have talked to my doctor about it. The thing is, I have sex drive, but just don't have attraction and desire for him, I hate it, I just don't know how you change something like that. As I said, there's not been one time I've wanted or looked forward to being sexual with him. That very sad for both of us. We've haven't dealt with it though and it's lead to other problems. We have never had a fight though, if that tells you anything. I'm afraid we've just waited too long to get help. I'm not sure things can get better now.
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## So tired (Apr 7, 2012)

DanG said:


> RE: "And, there are things that haven't helped. He's began gaining weight as soon as we were married and has struggled with it for years. He's now close to 100 lbs. overweight. He's miserable with himself, has multiple medical problems, but does little to change it."
> 
> @ Tired: We may be getting somewhere. For a guy, being too "nice" and lacking a strong assertive personality USUALLY is problematic for providing that "something" that is missing in a - your - sexual relationship. The weight problem and lack of successes in dealing with it is just as problematic. I STRONGLY advise you go to What is the Red Pill? | Married Man Sex Life. and BOTH of you take the "Red Pill.". There are Christians who have asked the site's author to publish a Christian version of his books/methodology. You should purchase both of his publications. But, if you take the time to read his blog, you will get a pretty good idea of what both of you need to do to add/regain that "something" that has been missing - for over 20 years. Try it. You'll like it!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

If he's a Christian, why has he indulged in one of the 7 deadly sins, gluttony?


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## So tired (Apr 7, 2012)

Wow, DanG! Very interesting. He is the epitome of a nice guy. To the point that when I try to challenge anything or a dispute of some type starts, he won't allow it. If he thinks he's irritated me or the like, he follows me around like a lost puppy. He depends on my for lots of things. He will openly admit, I take care of things and he counts on me to make decisions. He's petrified that I'm going to leave him, but don't think he ever let's himself think it will ever happen, mainly because of the "church". He makes lots of comments recently that I feel are aimed to "guilt" me into never considering it. Comments about the church, God, and the kids.
I've just started glancing at what you suggested. Makes a lot of sense. Recently in one of our marriage counseling sessions, during some one on one time I had with the therapist, I asked her a question. I told her I was struggling to understand why he wanted to stay in this marriage and was "ok to live this way" (his words), considering he said he has felt unloved by me. I got a look of shock and an "are you kidding me?" I wasn't. She proceeded to list various characteristics and reasons that outweigh the things he's unhappy about. Then she paused and said, "Ultimately, you look good on his arm and you take care of things". But not taking care of the ultimate thing for a man, I've still been puzzled. So, very interesting to start reading what you suggested. Thank you.
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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> I hope there's something really great waiting for this poor man in heaven because he's suffered terribly down here. It is really pretty incredible what humans are capable of doing to each other.


:iagree:  :scratchhead:


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

Sounds like he's not mature enough to know when to give you some space (what this your mentioning him following you around like a puppy).

I guess he's gotten away with badgering people into at least verbally going along with what he wants, rather than really dealing with the issues at hand. Have I misunderstood him from what you've written?

If so, have you told him you need space when he does that?


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## DanG (Aug 10, 2011)

RE: "church, God, and the kids" - If I remember, in reading Athol's writings (?), you will find references to scriptural guidance to the effect that 'it is (equally) a man's duty to be a man' - in addition to the more familiar guidance that is more easily understood as guidance given to woman - or the relationship. I may be incorrect. Regardless, 100% naughty OR 100% nice is NOT the chemistry that woman need nor want - even if they consciously "do/don't know what they want."

Yeah so . . . You married a "nice guy." Keep reading. Try to get him to read. I'd skip the counselor. If he likes it when you take charge, drag his *ss to the gym and force him to watch some chick flicks with Alpa males. I never understood what the female draw was with pirate "Jack Sparrow" until I read Athol's and related sites: See Some Worthwhile Blogs | Married Man Sex Life
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## HalfGrin (Apr 8, 2012)

I have three suggestions:

He should get a personal trainer.

Once you can work up to it, include him on your personal adventures (no sex, just have him watch at first or tell him what to do).

If you have any vibrators, get rid of them. They make you less sensitive to natural stimulation.

Good luck!


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## So tired (Apr 7, 2012)

DanG said:


> RE: "church, God, and the kids" - If I remember, in reading Athol's writings (?), you will find references to scriptural guidance to the effect that 'it is (equally) a man's duty to be a man' - in addition to the more familiar guidance that is more easily understood as guidance given to woman - or the relationship. I may be incorrect. Regardless, 100% naughty OR 100% nice is NOT the chemistry that woman need nor want - even if they consciously "do/don't know what they want."
> 
> Yeah so . . . You married a "nice guy." Keep reading. Try to get him to read. I'd skip the counselor. If he likes it when you take charge, drag his *ss to the gym and force him to watch some chick flicks with Alpa males. I never understood what the female draw was with pirate "Jack Sparrow" until I read Athol's and related sites: See Some Worthwhile Blogs | Married Man Sex Life
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## So tired (Apr 7, 2012)

Why would you skip the counselor? Marriage or individual or both?
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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

She had little to no attraction to him when he was 100 lbs lighter. What would compel him to want to work out? A longer life of misery? According to most understanding of Christian doctrine, he can't get a divorce unlesss she commits adultary. She hasn't, so he's stuck unless death comes in and solves his problem.


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## So tired (Apr 7, 2012)

The thing is, he says he doesn't want a divorce. He says he loves me and other than this issue is happy. He claims this, anyway. It is hard for me to understand fully. Unbelievable, you obviously think I'm a horrible person and I've treated him very badly. Well, I am and have been good to him in many other ways. As I've said, this was just as much of a surprise to me as it was for him. Neither of us expected this struggle and its been difficult for both of us. And, I would like to see him motivated to take care of himself to help his own emotional and physical health. He has plenty to live for, contrary to what you may believe. And, taking cate of your "temple" is also commanded by God.
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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

By staying with him you're robbing him of the opportunity to move on with a woman who will treat him right. He says he doesn't want a divorce, because divorce is a big scary deal. But you're not doing him any favors by staying.


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## So tired (Apr 7, 2012)

As I've said, I realize it's a big problem, for both us. Some of you just seem to want to bash me. Believe me, I also live with the guilt and blame and feeling of failure this brings everyday. I hate it and a care. I don't want him to live this way and have told him I've thought of leaving so he could have more. He doesnt want to hear that. He cries and says he can't imagine life without me. I do want more for him. I know he deserves that.
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## DanG (Aug 10, 2011)

I'm suggesting that "Tired" may - MAY - be able to guide him to see that he must . . . "change" for the good of the relationship, himself, and his "temple." As we all know, HE has to decide and commit to change. No one can get someone else to change unless they want to. Thus, the opportunites and ultimatiums built into the MAP. He's been "guilting" her. My guess is that it may have been defensive/manipulative (crying?). She has every right to "guilt" HIM!

Personally, I have never had much luck with counselors, and often read that others find the same. "Tired's" mileage may vary. A trainer may be more in order.

Speaking from personal experience and observation, people can live nice-n-boring/sexless for a VERY long time. All the while thinking "this must be the way it is/is supposed to be."
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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

What are you going to do if you meet a man who sweeps you off your feet and feel an intense sexual attraction to?


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## HalfGrin (Apr 8, 2012)

DanG said:


> I'm suggesting that "Tired" may - MAY - be able to guide him to see that he must . . . "change" for the good of the relationship, himself, and his "temple." As we all know, HE has to decide and commit to change. No one can get someone else to change unless they want to. Thus, the opportunites and ultimatiums built into the MAP. He's been "guilting" her. My guess is that it may have been defensive/manipulative (crying?). She has every right to "guilt" HIM!
> 
> Personally, I have never had much luck with counselors, and often read that others find the same. "Tired's" mileage may vary. A trainer may be more in order.
> 
> ...


Guilt is not a transitive verb. I believe the word you are looking for is shame.


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## HalfGrin (Apr 8, 2012)

chaos said:


> Trainer my a$$, he needs to stop stuffing his face with cakes, twinkies and ho hos. Bodies are made in the kitchen not the gym.


While I appreciate the enthusiasm I think you should know that a lot of personal trainers work with people on meal plans and exercise routines.


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

HalfGrin said:


> While I appreciate the enthusiasm I think you should know that a lot of personal trainers work with people on meal plans and exercise routines.



True but there are folks out there who still believe the myth that exercise alone is enough to loose body fat. It is not.

A lower caloric intake couple with an increase caloric expenditure is the best approach to loose body fat. And behavior modification to make the loses permanent is needed as well to avoid going back to the same unhealthy lifestyle that packed on the pounds to begin with.


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## So tired (Apr 7, 2012)

Agreed! Permanent diet changes and exercise are necessary. I've tried to set a good example in this area for him and our children, who worry about his health. The list of meds he takes at his age is alarming and all are related to his weight. I want him to be healthy, for himself.
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## So tired (Apr 7, 2012)

And as far as the comment "this is the way it's supposed to be", I know that not true and not a good attitude to have. Just wish I had had the courage to address our problem sooner. Of course we CAN live in a boring/sexless life for a long time or forever, but who wants that?
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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

So tired said:


> Of course we CAN live in a boring/sexless life for a long time or forever, but who wants that?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not me. I got out of my marriage after 3.5 years of no sex.


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## DanG (Aug 10, 2011)

So tired said:


> And as far as the comment "this is the way it's supposed to be", I know that not true and not a good attitude to have. Just wish I had had the courage to address our problem sooner. Of course we CAN live in a boring/sexless life for a long time or forever, but who wants that?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think that the internet and sites like this have opened a lot of people's eyes as to how good or bad their sexual relationships are. Prior to this form of information sharing, who knew what was good, bad, normal, etc?? What/who was our experiential baseline for what was "normal" or "right?" I've been reading/studying this stuff for about a year now - working on my own relationship. My reactions to what I read run the full gamut - from enlighted to disgusted. Sometimes I would rather not know of the pain and cruelty people inflict and experience.

So-Tired, at least you now have some "clues," if not potential solutions, and SHOULD know that you are not alone.
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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

So tired said:


> Married 21 years, married very young, and have had sexual issues since day one. We "messed around" before marriage, but had sex only few times. We had tried to abstain because we are Christians, but stumbled a few times. It was not enjoyable for me at all because of the emotional stress that I was doing something very wrong. Once married, the sex did not happen as it should have. I had no desire for him. In fact, I've never wanted to have sex with him, ever. It was shocking to me and disappointing for both of us. He has always thought that I didn't have any sex drive. That's not true, I do, and can take care of myself just fine. He would probably faint if he knew that. Anyway, I've prayed and tried to change it and just can't. In marriage counseling recently our therapist explained how I've developed an aversion to him. After years of doing a "chore" that has been difficult, it's normal that I feel the way I do. We haven't had sex for almost a year and the last time we did I felt physically sick. Now, it's to the point, any touch at all from him makes me cringe. He's willing to live this way, but I'm not, but am struggling. Has anyone else dealt with something like this? He's a good guy and I wish we had the connection and chemistry we need. After so long, it's obvious it's not there and never has been.


I hate saying this but if what you say is true than why dont you two try a separation or a divorce? 

I like the triangular theory of love 

Triangular theory of love - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You have an empty love there is no Intimacy and there is no passion.










You only have commitment no intimacy and no passion which is a big problem. Also more than likely there is little you can do to change this you have been married for year's and its not changed counseling has not helped it and it seems little of anything has. You have commitment for now and after you married you lost the original feelings and nothing else ever developed.


I think you honestly need a divorce i hope it does not come to one of you going outside your marriage. That is a very likely case with people in marriages like this one person cant take it and seek's a person outside. I would hate for you to be cheated on or you to cheat on him. It may be in both of your's best interest to divorce if you have no desire for him there is not much you can do.


Best of luck


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## Workdog (Feb 23, 2012)

Sounds just like my story, except I didn't gain 100 lbs, and our disaster went on for 39 years. Finally after 3 plus years of absolutely no sex, I finally left. Wife said she wished I'd done that 20 years ago, while we were still young. 

After 21 years, you're probably not going to fix your relationship. If there's no chance of fixing it, don't wait until you're old. Time only reduces your options.


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

Gold member thanks for sharing that "love triangle" (lol had to say it).

It's actually pretty amazing (and I think largely accurate), going to have to show that to my wife.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

So tired said:


> Married 21 years, married very young, and have had sexual issues since day one. We "messed around" before marriage, but had sex only few times. We had tried to abstain because we are Christians, but stumbled a few times. *It was not enjoyable for me at all because of the emotional stress that I was doing something very wrong*. Once married, the sex did not happen as it should have. I had no desire for him. In fact, I've never wanted to have sex with him, ever. It was shocking to me and disappointing for both of us. He has always thought that I didn't have any sex drive. That's not true, I do, and can take care of myself just fine. He would probably faint if he knew that. Anyway, I've prayed and tried to change it and just can't. In marriage counseling recently our therapist explained how I've developed an aversion to him. After years of doing a "chore" that has been difficult, it's normal that I feel the way I do. We haven't had sex for almost a year and the last time we did I felt physically sick. Now, it's to the point, any touch at all from him makes me cringe. He's willing to live this way, but I'm not, but am struggling. Has anyone else dealt with something like this? He's a good guy and I wish we had the connection and chemistry we need. After so long, it's obvious it's not there and never has been.


Hi So tired ~

You mentioned that you did not enjoy sex after marriage because you felt that you were doing something wrong...and it snowballed from that point on.

As such, I think that you need to take responsibility for working that issue. If your guilt/shame over sex in the beginning has been building and impeding your sex life ever since, then YOU take the bull by the horns and work on resolving that...whether that involves working through the issues with an individual counselor or whether that involves working through them with your pastor or whether that involves working through them on your own with simply the counsel of the Lord and prayer. Learning to forgive yourself will be key to any kind of recovery in your marriage.

I firmly believe that if you are resolute to trying to change a situation and you take it up in prayer ... asking for wisdom and guidance ... you will receive it. There's an old proverb about not asking for a lesser burden, but asking for stronger shoulders for the burden you do have. 

If you work diligently to overcome the issues of shame and guilt that YOU have, and you are encouraging and supportive of your husband to do the same for his own issues, then you may be very pleasantly surprised at the direction you will be taken.

Best wishes.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

So tired said:


> In marriage counseling recently our therapist explained how I've developed an aversion to him. After years of doing a "chore" that has been difficult, it's normal that I feel the way I do.


I think the key here is You Developed an Aversion. You developed it. You created it. You did it on purpose. You did it for a reason. You used your mind on purpose to develop non sexual feelings toward your husband. Think about that. It's really important for you to understand why you did this, becuase you may repeat it with the next man.

Anything he did in response to this (weight etc) should not really be held against him.

The good news is, if you can use your mind on purpose to develop non sexual feelings toward your husband, you can also use it on purpose to develop sexual feelings for him.


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## So tired (Apr 7, 2012)

What? On purpose? That makes absolutely no sense at all! Why would I do this on purpose? Why would anyone? I disagree, obviously.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## So tired (Apr 7, 2012)

And I don't hold his weight against him. I said before that is not the reason for our problems, it something that hasn't helped our marriage and I would like him to get healthy for himself. Holding it against him, I don't.
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## So tired (Apr 7, 2012)

Enchantment-
I didn't enjoy sex the few times we did it before marriage because I felt it was wrong at the time. After marriage, I thought I would want it and enjoy it. I didn't, but it wasn't because I felt it was wrong.
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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Well, the reasons behind it are for you to discover. The discovery process is crucial for your future. It started with you telling yourself that sex with this man is bad. You did this because you were raised to believe sex is bad. But, you must know that this is you using your mind with a specific purpose.

Every thought you have is created by you. So if you think "my husband repulses me", you have created this thought. You can create other thoughts. You can control both your own thoughts and your own feelings.


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## So tired (Apr 7, 2012)

I was not raised to think sex is bad. I was raised in a Christian home...far from it. It was something I sought out. It was something that my husband and I both strove to abstain from before marriage. We both felt bad when we failed at that. But, sex being bad, that was never a thought I had. And, as far as "thinking" myself into being attracted to him. I have no clue how anyone could do something like that. I certainly don't have that power. I'm not trying to be a pessimist, I'm just being realistic.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## So tired (Apr 7, 2012)

Was NOT raised in a Christian home, that is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

So Tired, this is your discovery to make.
Something inside of you made you think it was a good thing to abstain from sex with this man. The fact that you did this meant that in your mind there was a wrongness to sex that made you think it is something a person should avoid. I don't know what that something is. But that override is still there.


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## DanG (Aug 10, 2011)

1. Do you wish that you would WANT to have regular hot - steaming HOT - passionate sex with him as he is?

2. Same as above, but change the end to "if he were 125 lbs lighter, had better health, had muscle mass?"

3. Do you ever wish you could have hot, passionate sex with another guy?

4. What do you consider to be the frequency of sex in your ideal relationship?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## So tired (Apr 7, 2012)

Yes to 1 and 2. I would love to experience that in my marriage. And, I'd be lying if I said I hadn't wondered if I could have that with someone else. Just normal curiosity. Well, normal/good would be at least once or twice a week. It's definitely not once a year.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bclemmons (Jan 20, 2012)

I didn't see anyone else suggest it, maybe I missed it, but you should introduce him to 'No More Mr. Nice Guy', (No More Mr. Nice Guy), buy him the book.

I've been pretty good about taking care of myself, but sadly I always sort of pushed my wife into a leading role as I always doubted myself, and I felt that by letting her have her way, I was being 'nice'. I needed, and still need to, build my confidence. I'm getting there slowly. But, becoming responsible for my own happiness is part of this as I'm learning, part of that is being physically fit. It sounds like he needs to feel better about himself and develop some self confidence for sure - if he's following you around the house like a puppy.

Ashamed to admit have done this in the past, but I'm finished with that part now.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

So tired said:


> What? On purpose? That makes absolutely no sense at all! Why would I do this on purpose? Why would anyone? I disagree, obviously.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Then what did your husband do to create this aversion? It is not his weight, so is he awful in bed? Does he hurt you otherwise, disrespect you, objectify you, ignore you? What did he do that caused you to want to avoid sex with him?


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## DanG (Aug 10, 2011)

What do you think he would say/does he say (about you) in regard to 1 & 2?

How about 3 & 4 - his response or projected response?

As you can see, Im just working towards your & his TRUTHFUL DESIRE to resolve the "aversion." It may be that one of you truly does not WANT to take the "Red Pill" - with the other partner being the other half of the relationship. Maybe he has a sexual "aversion" to YOU, afraid he does not know what he is doing, has performance problems, etc.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## razorsedge (Apr 9, 2012)

So tired said:


> Married 21 years, married very young, and have had sexual issues since day one. We "messed around" before marriage, but had sex only few times. We had tried to abstain because we are Christians, but stumbled a few times. It was not enjoyable for me at all because of the emotional stress that I was doing something very wrong. Once married, the sex did not happen as it should have. I had no desire for him. In fact, I've never wanted to have sex with him, ever. It was shocking to me and disappointing for both of us. He has always thought that I didn't have any sex drive. That's not true, I do, and can take care of myself just fine. He would probably faint if he knew that. Anyway, I've prayed and tried to change it and just can't. In marriage counseling recently our therapist explained how I've developed an aversion to him. After years of doing a "chore" that has been difficult, it's normal that I feel the way I do. We haven't had sex for almost a year and the last time we did I felt physically sick. Now, it's to the point, any touch at all from him makes me cringe. He's willing to live this way, but I'm not, but am struggling. Has anyone else dealt with something like this? He's a good guy and I wish we had the connection and chemistry we need. After so long, it's obvious it's not there and never has been.


Please know that I am not judging you by asking you this question.

If you knew from day 1 there was this issue, why did you stay married so long? 

It was / is so unfair to both yourself and your spouse.


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## So tired (Apr 7, 2012)

I think for a long time I didn't allow myself to acknowledge how important it was. I was in denial...we both were...he still is. I wanted to think that that was the only problem in our marriage and that all else was ok. We have rarely talked about the problem until recently when I insisted we address our issues, not just this one. Believe it or not, he would rather not address anything now. 

We've stayed married because it seemed like the "right" Christian thing to do. I do wish I had had the courage to address things years ago. Trying to fix this myself and praying and hoping it would get better was the wrong approach.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## So tired (Apr 7, 2012)

DanG said:


> What do you think he would say/does he say (about you) in regard to 1 & 2?
> 
> How about 3 & 4 - his response or projected response?
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## So tired (Apr 7, 2012)

He has admitted he doesn't feel loved by me because of this and I think he believes me when I say I've tried to change it and wish I could. I do not think him losing weight would change it. Actually, I'm sure it wouldn't. He seems to think that's the magic solution, I've assured him it wouldn't. He did ask me if I thought I would be able to have attraction to someone else. I told him, maybe, I had no way of knowing, but of course I've wondered. That's not what he wanted to hear...i think it hurt a little. He claims he has no regrets marrying me and has not wondered about being with another. I just have a hard time believing that. He insists it's true.

At this point, after all these years of feeling like I've failed to meet this need, honestly I don't have a lot of faith in my ability to change it. Let me emphasize, there are other problems in our marriage. I do feel exhausted and I don't know if I want to fix it, because I don't feel optimistic about my ability to. It's been going on so long. Part of me feels relieved when I let myself have the thought of divorcing him. Like I could have some peace, maybe we both could.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DanG (Aug 10, 2011)

So, other than the sex/kind if sex you had/did not have with each other, neither of you know any different? If so, it could be a plus - there is nowhere to go but up - unless someone is into porn . . .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## So tired (Apr 7, 2012)

Nope, no different. Is it wrong to want different for both of us? Is it wrong to acknowledge at some point that it just can't work? Is it best to continue this way and get older and never even have the option of a true companion? Just thoughts I have....constantly thinking, when you feel drained and like you failed everyday, your mind seems not to rest. Mine doesn't anyway.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

So I reread all that you wrote So Tired, and your situation saddens me all the more.

One thing I'm concerned about are your children. I'll admit I'm projecting a bit because my parents split when I was 4 years old, and it was a bitter divorce. I will say though that being the child in a broken home sucks in so many ways. Especially if there's split custody, while it means the kids get to know each parent, it also means they loose out on a lot of friendships (because they are bouncing between different homes, neighborhoods, and/or cities). It's a hurt for them that will stay with them all the time (I know it did for me).

Now that's not a reason to stay married, but just consider it before doing anything rash. Have you considered separation before going all the way to divorce? Perhaps some time apart might help the situation (assuming you both still get some IC). It would certainly be a wake up call and a half for your husband and yourself. It wouldn't be divorce too so you have more time to decide what it is you really want and what you think is best.

Still as someone else mention, since you're a Christian I'd really like to stress the importance of prayer. Again not to give a sermon, but you mentioned that you don't know what else you can do... perhaps it's not you that has to fix the situation, perhaps God will. Stranger things have happened.


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## So tired (Apr 7, 2012)

I've prayer and prayed and honestly, maybe I'm discouraged. It does happen, even to Christians. I assume I've lost faith that it will be fixed. That's not the right way to feel, I'm sure, but I'm being honest.

I come from a very dysfunctional family where i had to grow up very fast and be responsible for way too much too soon. My parents also divorced, but by the time they did, I was glad. It was sad and I wished things had been different, but was for the best. Alcoholism, depression and lots of fighting...at least the fighting stopped. Another reason why this is all the more difficult. I was going to do the right thing, choose the right person, and never have to consider divorce. I would never want to hurt my children. It consumes my thoughts daily. We are both very close to them. Here's what's happened to some degree and it scares me. We're both sad....that affects your ability to be "there" 100% as a parent no matter how hard you try to prevent it. If it came to it, we would absolutely separate first. I've stayed for 21 years, I analyze things, I think too much sometimes...doing something rash will not happen. We are both in IC now weekly. For me, it's made me realize lots of things....one of which is maybe living this way is just not healthy for either of us. It's taken it's toll. It's sad, it breaks my heart, and I know many people will bash me. I have to deal with that. I've lived for others and worried about what they think my whole life. I have to pay a little attention to what I need...I'm trying to accept that that's ok to do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DanG (Aug 10, 2011)

RE: "I've lived for others and worried about what they think my whole life. I have to pay a little attention to what I need...I'm trying to accept that that's ok to do."
> It IS ok to do - with a fair process. Since you have stated that it is your preference that things work out with him (ideally), yet think that you have done your best to remedy, I think it is only fair that you be perfectly clear with him as to what you would like - EXPECT! - to happen, what is going to happen. Include a time frame. You need to put an ACTION plan into ACTION - see MMSL - The Marriage Action Plan (MAP).
J
I'm going to be blunt: You married a little boy who wanted a mother. You were all about taking care of him AND proving that you could have and maintain a successful marriage. He is just fine with the way it is because you continue to enable, tolerate and provide for him. He knows your "button" is "The marriage can't fail." (Men marry to get the woman. Women marry to get the marriage.) Bust a move! When he pushes the button say, "Yes dear, I know you're there, but you're not ringing my bell. Are you going to fix it, or do I have to call the repair man?"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

If you're ready for a change, I'd recommend an in house separation for the sake of the children (if your house allows for it). Sleep in different rooms (no sex), and take care of your own individual meals (he needs to not get wife perks). Don't help him with his laundry, dishes or any other household chore. Create a chore list and split household duties fairly, including duties taking care of the kids.

You both should continue therapy (IC and/or MC). Set some milestones when you'll "date" him again if you're open to reconciliation (3 months and again at 6 months maybe?).

Perhaps a reality check is what he needs, and perhaps some time apart may give your heart time to heal. You may want to find classes or something to do with your time when it's not your night to tuck in kids to give you more space.

Make it crystal clear to him (write them down), what areas you most want him to evaluate/work on, ask him to do the same for you. I'd keep praying as well, that God's will be made clear.

Just my $0.02.


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## DanG (Aug 10, 2011)

I'll second what Browncoat said (adding it to my own suggestion - but reiterating that I'm not big on counselors).
He's not going to like this at all - He'll probably screach and throw the water bowl. But, it is worth a shot . . . However, I don't know how this is going to help with the lacking attraction factor - unless he has been off-the-chart-needy since the beginning??? Does he do guy-things around the "cave" . . . fixing, making, cutting the tall vegitation, chasing away predators or competing males, wrestling with the kids?? These things are necessary to gain the females respect, and thus desire.
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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

So tired said:


> He has admitted he doesn't feel loved by me because of this and I think he believes me when I say I've tried to change it and wish I could. I do not think him losing weight would change it. Actually, I'm sure it wouldn't. He seems to think that's the magic solution, I've assured him it wouldn't. He did ask me if I thought I would be able to have attraction to someone else. I told him, maybe, I had no way of knowing, but of course I've wondered. That's not what he wanted to hear...i think it hurt a little. He claims he has no regrets marrying me and has not wondered about being with another. I just have a hard time believing that. He insists it's true.
> 
> At this point, after all these years of feeling like I've failed to meet this need, honestly I don't have a lot of faith in my ability to change it. Let me emphasize, there are other problems in our marriage. I do feel exhausted and I don't know if I want to fix it, because I don't feel optimistic about my ability to. It's been going on so long. Part of me feels relieved when I let myself have the thought of divorcing him. Like I could have some peace, maybe we both could.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Of course he has regrets! The man doesn't feel loved. He's basically a breathing ATM machine, who exists only to produce so others may consume. He's not been allowed to function in the way the Lord designed him. He's been miserable for over 20 years, each one consisting of 365 days that he'll never get back. How could he not have regrets? He's trying to deal with it in a way that doesn't make you feel guilty.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Tired,
I wondered why you chose not to answer the question "why did your desire die at the start"

Is this a case of bad gender models? Meaning it just felt "wrong" to you?

And it felt that way because he was totally focused on what you wanted, what you thought should be done?

What an awful outcome for a child who had to grow up too soon. Suddenly you are unwilling head of new household. With husband as servant - waiting to be told what to do. And them compulsively eating when you are turned off by this. 

Maybe I am wrong. If I am tell us what happened the first year you were married.


QUOTE=So tired;670427]I've prayer and prayed and honestly, maybe I'm discouraged. It does happen, even to Christians. I assume I've lost faith that it will be fixed. That's not the right way to feel, I'm sure, but I'm being honest.

I come from a very dysfunctional family where i had to grow up very fast and be responsible for way too much too soon. My parents also divorced, but by the time they did, I was glad. It was sad and I wished things had been different, but was for the best. Alcoholism, depression and lots of fighting...at least the fighting stopped. Another reason why this is all the more difficult. I was going to do the right thing, choose the right person, and never have to consider divorce. I would never want to hurt my children. It consumes my thoughts daily. We are both very close to them. Here's what's happened to some degree and it scares me. We're both sad....that affects your ability to be "there" 100% as a parent no matter how hard you try to prevent it. If it came to it, we would absolutely separate first. I've stayed for 21 years, I analyze things, I think too much sometimes...doing something rash will not happen. We are both in IC now weekly. For me, it's made me realize lots of things....one of which is maybe living this way is just not healthy for either of us. It's taken it's toll. It's sad, it breaks my heart, and I know many people will bash me. I have to deal with that. I've lived for others and worried about what they think my whole life. I have to pay a little attention to what I need...I'm trying to accept that that's ok to do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## So tired (Apr 7, 2012)

MEM1163,
Sorry not answering your question. Just an oversight. Lots of comments and questions to respond to. I don't know why it died. Like I said, there was some attraction before marriage....not what I would consider strong looking back. But, I was very young when we met, 16, and I hadn't dated much. So, there was basically nothing to compare to. 

After marriage, honestly, the desire was just gone. Your guess is as good as mine as to why. We were busy with work and school and tired. All which shouldn't have mattered. I chose to blame those things. Also, I had started taking BC pills and had heard that could affect things. I just figured when things slowed down it would get better. But, we never talked about it, just swept it under the rug. Both hoping for a miracle I suppose. You could say it did and does feel "wrong" to me. Not that the sex is wrong, the chemisty and connection feels "wrong".


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## So tired (Apr 7, 2012)

Yes, Unbelievable, I realize how long he's "suffered". The thing is, when I bring up the possibility of divorce, to put him out of his misery, so to speak. He cries and says he doesn't want that....because I'm the love of his life. I don't understand it either. I've told him there is nothing he could say to me that would hurt me at this point. So, if he's holding back honesty to try to spare my feelings, I have no control over that. So, why do you think he doesn't want a divorce?


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## So tired (Apr 7, 2012)

The in house separation idea is very interesting and would be quite a challenge, but I will give it some thought. I can see it being a problem for him. Just FYI, or kids are a bit older, with one going away to college soon. Not that that makes it easy, I'm just giving you that info.

We are doing counseling and plan to continue. It's helped. Not in the way that many people think, maybe, but for us to actually start talking about things. We just haven't done that. Maybe it's made it more clear how bad things have gotten for me. Don't think he's allowed himself to really accept it. Or maybe, as he says, it's not as bad for him. I don't know. As I said, if he's not honest, I can't control that. I am to the point where I don't even know how to reconcile things, or if it's even possible. The thought of staying and the two of us being in a home alone with no kids in a few years is hard to even imagine. Our relationship has become like roommates. Just taking care of daily business....not substance.

I have started talking about a plan and a timeframe with my counselor. It's extremely scary, but I'm doing it.


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## So tired (Apr 7, 2012)

Ultimately, I would love to have a great marriage with him. I'm just being realistic. It's been 21 years of wall building, not 21 days. That's a very long time. It's not about blame, but neither of us handled things as we should have. Both of us have made horrible mistakes. Thinking we were sparing each other by not talking was wrong and now, here we are. I'm not a quitter, but I have to consider how useful it is to continue and "waste more time". I have to think of the comment someone made here, "I'm not doing him any favors by staying." I believe that, but the problem is, convincing him.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Tired,
BC pills combined with low desire to start with are often the kiss of death.

I honestly believe the sudden absence of desire was hormonal, especially given the absence of clear behavioral turn offs.

But now a hundred pounds and many mutual mis steps later, this seems much harder to fix.

Sorry not answering your question. Just an oversight. Lots of comments and questions to respond to. I don't know why it died. Like I said, there was some attraction before marriage....not what I would consider strong looking back. But, I was very young when we met, 16, and I hadn't dated much. So, there was basically nothing to compare to. 

After marriage, honestly, the desire was just gone. Your guess is as good as mine as to why. We were busy with work and school and tired. All which shouldn't have mattered. I chose to blame those things. Also, I had started taking BC pills and had heard that could affect things. I just figured when things slowed down it would get better. But, we never talked about it, just swept it under the rug. Both hoping for a miracle I suppose. You could say it did and does feel "wrong" to me. Not that the sex is wrong, the chemisty and connection feels "wrong".[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

Not sure if mentioned this to you or not (sorry if this is basically a repeat), but one thing my wife and I did recently that really helped clear the air (more than MC) was to each do a write up.

We sat apart for a night and just spelled out all the things that really bother us in the marriage (in a loving/constructive way). Suggested some things that would help us.

Then we each read each other's write ups, and tried our best to keep a constructive (non-defensive) attitude. Just listening to one another. Seeing it on paper helped us both, as well as it helped us to define what it is we wanted while writing it all down.


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## HalfGrin (Apr 8, 2012)

So tired said:


> Yes, Unbelievable, I realize how long he's "suffered". The thing is, when I bring up the possibility of divorce, to put him out of his misery, so to speak. He cries and says he doesn't want that....because I'm the love of his life. I don't understand it either. I've told him there is nothing he could say to me that would hurt me at this point. So, if he's holding back honesty to try to spare my feelings, I have no control over that. So, why do you think he doesn't want a divorce?


My spouse has suggested leaving before. She struggles with depression and bi-polar disorder and feels inadequate as wife and mother. My reaction is much like your husbands. Here's what goes through my mind:


I love you
I've put so much work into this
Things could be worse
I'm not "unhappy"
Maybe I could find someone else that doesn't struggle with _____, but chances are she would have her own problems
I would have to learn to get along with someone new
I don't want to start over at square one
Everyone has something unique they bring to a relationship, could I really deny the children your unique perspective
I don't want someone else, I want to see how far you and I can go
I can fix this (classic guy response, it's hardly a thought and more of a primal feeling)
Nothing could be better than us resolving our issues
Imagine if we really work through _____ then we would be sooo happy together


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## DanG (Aug 10, 2011)

Maybe you can get him to read this:
The Red Pill Room: Your Alpha Presentation: It's About The Sex. And That's . . . Okay.
BUT, if he's not interested in sex there is no point and he essentially has made a decision FOR you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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