# What makes a woman submissive?



## themrs

There's a lot of back and forth about the dominant man topic, but not much is said about the other part of the equation - the submissive wife.

Do you consider yourself submissive to your husband?


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## BRK123108

I not consider myself submissive to my husband. BUT I am working at it. 

Submissive is hard to define for me. How would you define it?

I try to not always feel the need to state my opinion when it isn't asked which I struggle with. I always feel like I need to share my opinion about everything.

I try not to get offended when my husband doesn't take my advice. 

I try to do the little extra things to make my husbands day/life easier.


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## themrs

It is hard, isn't it? I've been practicing being a submissive wife for about a year now (with fantastic results) but it's still a daily struggle.

I started by not talking as much. I don't offer my husband advice unless he asks, and even then I say "Whatever you think is best." 

I do not engage in arguements with my husband. If he says something hurtful to me, I respond with "ouch" and then just walk away. I always try and be the bigger person and not attempt to "get" him back. 

I act more feminine and vulnerable with him. I tell him when I'm afraid and when I need his help. I try not to be a martyr and do everything.

I make time for myself and things that I like so that I can be refreshed and eager for sex at any given time and not feel like it's a chore. 

Above all else, I submit to his will on important decision. I trust him to do what he says he's going to do and I don't follow up on him (that is the hardest thing for me to do!).


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## Andre2000

This is complicated. 
I did notice that people with less education, the MALE and FEMALE roles are much more prominent. The ditsy blonde is very sexy, the lumberjack man is very manly...etc etc..

I think that a lot of these roles are hormonal really, and our thinking is what holds it back or changes it, which leads to unhappiness.

I'm a firm believer there are male and female powers. Different but equal in magnitude, and we are only happy when both powers balance each other out.


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## BRK123108

"Whatever you think is best, honey" that is one of my biggest struggles. 

I do think as I get better at it it will have a huge impact on our relationship but it is still hard. 

I have always been very opinionated and independent so it is a constant struggle. I also try not to talk as much. I tend to give my opinion on every thing we hear being debated on the radio or tv news LoL so I have tried to just be quiet more often.

I do try to be a martyr and do EVERYTHING FOR EVERYONE. This is something I really need work on because it causes unnecessary stress in my life which causes stress in my husbands life. I think I could probably use some time to myself too so that I am more refreshed for my husband.


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## Andre2000

Why is it so hard to relinquish power? Is it fear?
What do you think made you so controlling? Think back...I'm curious. Was it the lessons in college? Was it your mom? Was it watching your mother dominate impotent men (impotent in the sense of powerless). Is it fear that men will hurt you if you give them your power? This question goes for all women here who are _trying_. 

I can tell you what made me so passive....


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## Alexandra

Submissive means different things to different people. In my marriage, I struggle with both the attitude and the actions.

With the attitude, I see it as an element of respect. I trust that he is handling the situation or decision to the best of his ability. I let him handle it. He needs that support and respect to be a good leader.

With the actions, it can get a little more difficult. He's not always right after all ;-) and being submissive doesn't mean being a doormat. It means giving him time to act (without jumping ahead of him). It means listening to him talk about things (instead of trying to put words in his mouth). It means letting him be the leader in small and large situations.

That's my thoughts anyways!


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## Andre2000

@Alexandra, put yourself in a situation with a man that was a lot smarter than you and more experienced...would you say then that it would not only be easier to be submissive but you would be a lot happier with his decisions too?


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## Alexandra

Hmmmm, interesting question. Assuming that the "smarter" person was always right (which doesn't happen), it just may be easier to trust them and let them make all of the decisions. The question is what does that teach you and how can you ever grow that way?

It's sort of like kids. When they're small, they need to be submissive. You're the boss, they don't know their way in the world and are inexperienced so they NEED you to be the dominant one. But a good parent, a loving parent, will allow them to make decisions, suffer consequences and grow in their knowledge and experience as they get older. A good parent will not continue to insist they be submissive. They will guide, support and all of that, but there comes a point when even the smartest, most experienced person needs to give a little to allow growth. 

Am I way off from your question? I don't really think there's a pat answer for it all.


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## Andre2000

No I think you answered it perfectly. 
I think the "trust" part hits the nail on the head big time. Also, what you said about being nurturing, and supportive and giving guidance is included in my idea of being a dominant male. Is it possible then that a woman can outgrow a man then in this model? If so, what kind of man will she need?


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## Atholk

I think this is a good idea for a thread. My metaphor for male leadership is "Captain and First Officer". I certainly have no desire for a mindless bimbo approach to me and just blindly following me. The First Officer is there as a support, a second set of eyes, a second set of thoughts, someone that can do productive work and needs to be completely competent to step up and make decisions and run the show should the Captain be unavailable.

Discuss options for action together. Let him choose the option to put into action. Often the most important thing to do as a Captain is to authorize the action a First Officer has suggested if that is clearly better than the Captains own idea.

Together a good Captain and First Officer can be greater than the sum of their parts. That is the actual goal, the submission/dominace is simply a tool to that end.


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## Alexandra

I've never thought of that analogy before Atholk, but it is intriguing. I kind of like the idea of being a First Officer (and not just because I have a thing for men in uniforms).

Good Captains should indeed know when to agree or work with an officer's suggestions. It's part of excellent leadership in any model. Also, the mutual respect that comes with the Captain/First Officer model would be wonderful in a marriage. Very cool.


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## BigBadWolf

This is very good and enlightening to discuss the submissive side as well.

For my wife and myself, she is not going to submit to anyone, even me, unless they are very much either knowing what they are doing or otherwise fit and capable to handle whatever the scenario.

In principle and behavior, this is exactly as it should be.

Now also for the particulars, even in times when my wife will know better than me on some issue, she will still communicate this to me in a respectful, courteous manner, because this is the relationship of respect that is already in place. 

There is the possibility to see this as "submission", this respect that I am given in communication because I have "earned it", even if she is thinking I am in error in some point.

But also know I speak and treat my wife with respect, as she has earned this from me. And of course I listen to what my wife has to say, and even when it is presented with respect and love for me I will listen all the more! 

The dynamic of dominance and submission produces a flow that, when it is in motion in a healthy relationship, it is often difficult to put the finger exactly on which is the dominance or the submission.



Andre2000 said:


> No I think you answered it perfectly.
> I think the "trust" part hits the nail on the head big time. Also, what you said about being nurturing, and supportive and giving guidance is included in my idea of being a dominant male. Is it possible then that a woman can outgrow a man then in this model? If so, what kind of man will she need?


"Trust", exactly this. 

If a man has not proven to his woman he is worth her trust, or in this particular topic, that he is worthy for her submission, then by all means should she not give it freely, as the man has not earned it. 

This is not saying she should be bossy, or needs to lead the man, but instead it is the "wake up call" for the man that he needs to step up his contribution to the relationship, to take on the ownership of whatever areas he is neglecting.

And the question is, will a woman outgrow a man in this model? 

The answer is absolutely.

This forum testifies to this every time there is a woman that is not having the emotional connection with her man, that her "needs are not met", that she is having an affair with some other man, or if she is just miserable trying to build a life with a man that she feels is just not interested in her, or she has left her man and has not the interest in pursuing another relationship with any man. 

All these things, are this one thing.

So in discussing that a woman will outgrow a man in this model, do not ignore the responsibility of the man to grow as well.

As in the healthy relationship, a good man and woman can become greater than the sum of the parts, so to say, to learn and grow together, to become stronger together as a couple, than simply the two individuals.

This is why I am so dismissive of the poltical correct talk of equality, and 50/50, and a man needing to act more like a woman, and all such things, because this neglects the potential of a relationship that honors the contribution of the masculine to the feminine, and the feminine to the masculine, each has such unique and incredible power to push the other to growth.

A relationship of two neuters is not this.


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## Andre2000

A REALLY good movie I recommend to anyone here that knows about this whole male/female dynamic in terms of dominant/submissive....

watch the movie NOISE. 

Pay attention to the woman he meets. She's very strong, very capable and independent...but she CHOOSES him...and watch as she uses her female/submissive power of _choice_ in NOT choosing another dominant male.

A lot of people think that to be submissive means to submit to any dominant man that comes along. lol far from it.

NOISE is a very good movie, it shows all sides of this issue.


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## larniegrl

Wow...good thread. This is a touchy subject for me. I guess its from the religious background...with good old "wives must always submit to their husbands".

Trust is a big deal now. I don't have any for my husband, and its become quite clear that he has no respect or emotional connection to me. 

It is true that a woman must support and help her man...not overrun and dominate. Yet, it is an equal and compassionate trade of giving up of the YOU in order the make the US work.


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## okeydokie

this is complicated because of the varying personalities that come together. i dont even know if could classify how this dynamic plays out in my own household. i guess my wife is somewhat submissive but not entirely, i dont feel like i make the big decisions alone. sexually she is NOT submissive (go ahead BBW, get on me about being dominant), that is, we are on her schedule for frequency no matter what i do or want.


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## Deejo

My wife was utterly submissive - but resented it. She had her sense of power, control, and individuality severely handicapped growing up.

No one would ever describe her as submissive. Perhaps avoidant is a better description. The more I took ownership and decision making, the more she resented me. The place she became comfortable taking control back, was sex - and access to it. In a twisted way, this negative reinforcement made changing the dynamic near impossible.

Every person in a relationship fills roles. Any one that doesn't believe this is deluding themselves. In a healthy relationship, we assume multiple roles based upon circumstances, or in response to our partner. 

I don't care what we call it. But without question, there are behaviors that we consciously or unconsciously can and do engage in that in any given emotional transaction with our partners stand to pull us closer together, or push us slightly apart. Over the course of years and literally hundreds of these minute transactions every day, you start to build up a net surplus or deficit.

Learning this 'language' and acknowledging that it exists is important regardless of the traits used to describe it.

Whether you defer to your husband and demonstrate good will about a particular decision or act, or choose to dress up like Princess Leia from Return of the Jedi because you know it means fireworks between the two of you - either transaction is about the same thing. Both of you feeling good about what took place.


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## larniegrl

Deejo: I think you hit on something...about adding up moments to reach either a surplus or deficit. Some of the issues with dominance and submission within a relationship can very well be attributed to our expectations regarding these roles. 

Something really small and trivial, but when I began dating my hubby...I was used to the man driving the car. It was what my dad always did...not matter where we went, he drove. My hubby could care less, and actually liked me driving. This was such a trivial detail, but it took me a little while to get used to and accept that my husband was much more passive in this area than I had expected.

Alot of the issues that have developed in my marriage are such...but they add up to a large deficit. It is hard for me to submit to a decision or desire from my husband...when in my head I'm thinking "but you didn't do this, or this, or support me in this, you said no to this and this..." You get the idea.

I do believe that the strive for equality between men and women has caused some of this to happen. Believe me...I don't want to go back to the way things were. I like being independent and career oriented...but remember how clearly defined the roles were a hundred years ago.


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## BigBadWolf

okeydokie said:


> this is complicated because of the varying personalities that come together. i dont even know if could classify how this dynamic plays out in my own household. i guess my wife is somewhat submissive but not entirely, i dont feel like i make the big decisions alone. sexually she is NOT submissive (go ahead BBW, get on me about being dominant), that is, we are on her schedule for frequency no matter what i do or want.


Are you happy being on "her schedule" regarding sexual intimacy?

If you are not knowing how this dynamic plays out, most likely it is you are just following your woman, at least most of the time. 

If you were to have ownership of the communication and decision making process, then the structure would be clear to you. 

Only from the outside, again when the dominance and submission is in motion and flowing, is the distinction becoming indistinguished.

Also this is never about making decisions alone, like already mentioned in the good captain/first officer scenario, the leader is never dismissing wise council from those he is responsible for.

In my home there are few decisions made between my wife and myself that would ever contradict what it is my wife has suggested or desired, since she is the one who is clearly the manager and who "runs things" day to day with our children, and would obviously know very clearly what to do.

But the decision, even if she is clearly making it, the decision I will take responsibility for, and the consequences. 

So for example, if my wife is wanting to spend money on some item, and I agree and we do it, and imagine some time later we regret this purchase. I am NOT going to resent or blame my wife, even if it was on her advice or essentially her decision, because I have taken responsibility for the action and will contribute to work out the resolution.

In this way, there is not the resentment, the "silent treatment", the "I told you so's".

Instead it is very simple, as a couple we discuss what is the issue, and work toward a solution. Her input is absolutely respected, but the structure is simply this, as the man I assume responsibility for the decision and the consequences.

This is a very simple structure, and again I will be beating the drum like a broken record yet again to emphasize this is also flowing with sexual attraction and emotional connection, when I love to see my wife trusting me and giving herself to my leadership, and she is loving to see me be her man and confidently and often humorously deal with the responsibility of these things. 

As a woman, she is not forgetting these things at the end of the day, and will often be determined to remind me with passion!




Star said:


> :rofl: you know BBW will GET on you Okey!!!


It is only because of the importance of these things to the happiness of both the good man and the woman that I am so often beating this drum like a broken record. 

If a man was strking a woman, and hurting her, would it not be important for those who care for this woman to speak up?

Also if a man was emotionally abusing a woman, to demean something about her, to intentionally attack her and tear her down making her feel insecure in an attempt to control her, or make the man feel more secure himself, would not it also be important for those who care for this woman to speak up?

Well, this second thing, this emotional abuse, is the EXACT THING a woman is doing to a man, to withold sex in the way to control him, to reward or punish him, crushing him into insecurity, and either suffering alone, or driving him to masturbation, pornagraphy, or affairs. 

A man feels these same things, exactly, in the way a woman has the power over him to make him feel this way. 

This is very wrong.

And the solution, for the man to take control of himself, and his environment, to be the dominant man, to light in his woman a fire of desire for him, kills this kind of emotional abuse and is happiness for BOTH the good man and the woman.

Emotional abuse to a man is not to be tolerated any more than to a woman, it is not right or necessary, and can be fixed very easily when the structure of sexual attraction is honored.


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## okeydokie

i knew you would say that


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## scarletblue

This is rather perplexing. I see my husband as dominant, but I don't see myself as submissive.

I look to my husband for strength and support. I trust his decisions on things, and look to him for his opinion on most matters. However, I am 12 years older than he is, and I do have more life experience in areas. He values intelligence. He likes deep discussions and debates. If I have an opinion that differs from his, he wants to hear it. 

That being said, I could not "act" like someone I am not. I won't "play games" or be out of character of myself. I feel like that would be a lie. Not to mention that if my husband ever thought I was doing such things, he'd be furious.


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## themrs

I'm not submissive by nature either, as most women in this thread have commented about themselves. I also agree that when there is trust, I WANT to be be submissive to my husband. When I do not trust him, it is much harder to submit to his will.

From my experience (which is limited to 5 years marriage) I have learned that as much as my husband has power in dominance, I have power in being submissive. That is where my power actually lies - in my choice. I can choose to be submissive or I can choose to be defiant. By LETTING my husband have his way, I relinquish my responsibility of the situation to him. Now it falls on him and I am free from that burden. It is actually more liberating for me than if I had direct control over the situation. 

A submissives wifes control is indirect, but it's still there. The more I submit to my husband, the more he wants to do what I want and the harder he works to give those things to me.

It is a very fine line to walk, especially since I have more formal education than my husband and I used to make more money than him. I read an article today that said that marriage is actually a benefiting men more financially than women today. This makes the dynamic of a dominant husband/submissive wife even harder to acheive because women have to be dominant in the work force and submissive at home. It's a delicate balance to acheive and it takes a lot of practice. 

I started practicing surrendering to my husband about a year ago and I have seen a very dramatic turn around in him. He got a job and a better one than he had before he was unemployed. He spends more time with the family. He takes me out more. He pays attention to my needs more. We have more intimacy. The list of positives goes on and on. 

I still struggle with it sometimes, especially when I know I am right on an issue. And when he choses his way and I turn out to be right, I struggle with accepting he made a mistake and not making a big deal out of it. But I'm certain by the time we reach the 10 year mark I will be a master at submission!


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## 63Vino

VINO!!!!!!!.......duh.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nice777guy

I don't get it.

Why would any woman want to PRACTICE saying "Yes dear - whatever you think" as a way of life?

I feel like I'm beginning to understand and buy into men being more dominant / active / macho in regards to sex and romance. 

But when it comes time to buy your first house - your hubby wants a *30 year *variable loan, and you think a fixed is more appropriate - do you sit back and say "yes dear - whatever you think"??? 

Then - when rates shoot up, you really just sit back passively and think quietly to yourself "oh well, he made a mistake...."??

Or do you REALLY think - "WHY DIDN'T THAT IDIOT LISTEN TO ME, I TRIED TO TELL HIM, etc., etc.,"

Seems like a good path to resentment to me. I'm starting to "get" the difference in needs, but having a penis does NOT make me an expert on all matters. Would be great if it did. 

Testosterone may make me more naturally aggressive - and maybe we (men) are being taught to repress these feelings to a fault. But testosterone does not make me naturally intelligent.

What am I missing here?


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## themrs

nice777guy said:


> I don't get it.
> 
> Why would any woman want to PRACTICE saying "Yes dear - whatever you think" as a way of life?
> 
> I feel like I'm beginning to understand and buy into men being more dominant / active / macho in regards to sex and romance.
> 
> But when it comes time to buy your first house - your hubby wants a *30 year *variable loan, and you think a fixed is more appropriate - do you sit back and say "yes dear - whatever you think"???
> 
> Then - when rates shoot up, you really just sit back passively and think quietly to yourself "oh well, he made a mistake...."??
> 
> Or do you REALLY think - "WHY DIDN'T THAT IDIOT LISTEN TO ME, I TRIED TO TELL HIM, etc., etc.,"
> 
> Seems like a good path to resentment to me. I'm starting to "get" the difference in needs, but having a penis does NOT make me an expert on all matters. Would be great if it did.
> 
> Testosterone may make me more naturally aggressive - and maybe we (men) are being taught to repress these feelings to a fault. But testosterone does not make me naturally intelligent.
> 
> What am I missing here?



I used to feel the same way. It seemed stupid to me. But there aren't many companies with two CEOs, are there? There aren't many countries that have two presidents, if any. Someone has to be the one who makes the decisions and someone has to be the one to support the person who makes them. 

I have chosen to let my husband drive us through life while I sit in the passenger seat trusting that he will take us in the right direction. If he takes the wrong turn, I trust he'll find his way without my help. 

In the situation you described, I would have told my husband I wanted a house. Period. Whatever he decides is the best mortgage is up to him. If he gets into a bind with regards to how to pay for it, he has to figure out how to do it. I just tell him what I want and I trust him to get it for me however he can. If he makes a big mistake, he knows it. What is the point of me telling him, "I told you so" or berating him because of his error? I wouldn't want someone to treat me like that if I were in his shoes.


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## nice777guy

OK - I'll play along, but then I need to get back to work.

Yes - we have one President - but we also have Congress and the Supreme Court - checks and balances. Sometimes this limits the actions of the President - and often for good reason.

In the 30 year mortgage example, its your life and money too, is it not? If you discuss it and are confident that your concerns are at least understood, there will be no need to say "I told you so" as you will share in the risk / success or failure equally.


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## nice777guy

I always thought the biggest difference was that a man could write his name in the snow, but only a woman could dot the "i"!


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## themrs

nice777guy said:


> OK - I'll play along, but then I need to get back to work.
> 
> Yes - we have one President - but we also have Congress and the Supreme Court - checks and balances. Sometimes this limits the actions of the President - and often for good reason.
> 
> In the 30 year mortgage example, its your life and money too, is it not? If you discuss it and are confident that your concerns are at least understood, there will be no need to say "I told you so" as you will share in the risk / success or failure equally.


Yeah and the constant back and forth between the president and congress sometimes makes it impossible to get anything accomplished! 

Marriage limits the actions of a good husband. The fact that he made the commitment in the first place is what keeps him in check. He doesn't need his wife to constantly remind him on what decisions to make or how to make good decisions. He wants to make his wife happy and her satisfaction creates the checks and balances. Happy wife, happy life and all that jazz.

Of course it's my money too and my husband knows that. That is why he would not throw it away without forthought. If I am overly involved in the decision, my husband won't take it as seriously. If I leave it all up to him, he will probably chose the better mortgage simply because it's all on his shoulders. Because he has to take my needs into consideration and he knows that I am trusting him to make the right decision, he makes his choses more carefully than if I held his hand every step of the way. 

Now if he is about to make a decision financially that I do not agree with, I simply show him the facts but I still leave the final decision up to him and I accept whatever he decides.


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## nice777guy

This is fascinating.

(yes - I had a bunch of stuff typed here and have deleted it - felt like I was being too argumentative and that was not my intention)

The only thing I know for sure is that I don't know as much as I used to think I did.


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## themrs

nice777guy said:


> This is fascinating.
> 
> "Yeah and the constant back and forth between the president and congress sometimes makes it impossible to get anything accomplished!" - to me, that's called gridlock, and it is built into our political system by design. If enough people can't agree, accept the status quo or keep looking for an agreeable solution that doesn't violate the rights of any large number of people.
> 
> In my head, I'm thinking "Leave It to Beaver" v. "The Cosby Show", or even better, "Roseanne", which at its best was the most realistic TV depiction of life in middle class America. Dan Connor wasn't a pushover, but Roseanne also wasn't at home all day dressed in pearls and a pretty white dress. Neither was Bill Cosby's wife - who I believe was an attorney. And speaking of decision making and the President, was June Cleaver allowed to vote?
> 
> Also stuck in my head is a phrase BBW used - I read it a week or longer ago, but remember it clearly - saying that women "strive to be dominated." That sounds like an oxymoron to me - when you strive, you are pushing to achieve, which is to me the opposite of passiveness - right? Maybe I'm stuck in semantics here - or maybe I'm not.
> 
> "Marriage limits the actions of a good husband." But by this definition it totally nullifies the intelligence of a good woman - and AMPLIFIES the actions of many a well intentioned idiot - trying to do things alone while his "silent partner" stands behind him, praying he gets it right.
> 
> The only thing I know for sure is that I don't know as much as I used to think I did.


I understand what you are saying. I work, so that totally negates the idea of a submissive wife as a SAHM who hurries to put her makeup on 20 minutes before her husband is due to come home. I'm not that kind of woman. 

And my husband helps take care of the kids and chores. Since I didn't want to put the kids in daycare and he didn't want to be the only one bringing home a paycheck, we compromised and work opposite shifts. He takes care of the kids during the day and I take over at night. We make time for each other in between.

The point is, he is the leader and I am his helper. When I was the leader, I resented him and I thought of him as lazy. I didn't respect him and I treated him with disrespect. This caused him to withdraw because he felt like he couldn't do anything right. It was terrible. 

Now I treat him like my hero and he acts like a hero. It's really simple and I was foolish not to do it before. The fact of the matter is, I picked him so I should trust him. He doesn't want to hurt me or the kids, so whatever he decides is what he thinks is the right thing to do and I'm okay with it.


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## nice777guy

Mrs - if it's working for you - and you are happy - then you are doing a lot better than most of us here!


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## themrs

nice777guy said:


> Mrs - if it's working for you - and you are happy - then you are doing a lot better than most of us here!


We're not always happy, but it's MUCH better than it was.


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## BigBadWolf

There is much I keep wanting to say, but there is nothing I can think that is not already said more eloquent by themrs. 

But there is just as a reference to what I say when a "woman strives to be dominated", it is again just this, it is her power over a man to challenge him to be the better man than he was even the day before, and to continue to be the better man even tomorrow.

To see that the dynamic of dominance and submission, is to recognize the powers of natural sexual motivation that the man and woman possess to each other, to fiercely and intuitively motivate each other to, at least we are hoping, to strive to become better and stronger and more connected to one another.

I will continue to watch this thread with much interest.


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## Becker0109

larniegrl said:


> Wow...good thread. This is a touchy subject for me. I guess its from the religious background...with good old "wives must always submit to their husbands".
> 
> Trust is a big deal now. I don't have any for my husband, and its become quite clear that he has no respect or emotional connection to me.
> 
> It is true that a woman must support and help her man...not overrun and dominate. Yet, it is an equal and compassionate trade of giving up of the YOU in order the make the US work.


-----------------------------------------------------------
Religion...not quite!! As a "therapist"I can tell you that a great marriage is when both husband and wife "submit" to each other. Oh yes, it is found in Ephesians 5:21


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## reachingshore

I am going to quote myself here:



reachingshore said:


> To break it down in quite possibly simplest terms, here is an explanation that would be applicable to both daily life and the bedroom:
> 
> The dominant one is the one who is confident in _himself _and _his own abilities_ and thus is a natural "leader" (or the one who _leads _the way)
> 
> The submissive one is the one who _trusts _the "leader" to a point where _she knows that nothing the "leader" does will harm her and all that the "leader" does is for his and her benefit_.
> 
> The _extent _to where the "leader" will go (is allowed/trusted to go) and the extent to the level of submissiveness (the extent to which she will allow to trust/to be lead) is a purely personal and individual thing.
> 
> Sexual, marital and domestic bliss happens when both parties' needs and desires are compatible, when they are on the same page, so to speak, in the dominant and submissive department. That way a relationship is a self sufficient organism. His ego is being fed and she feels fulfilled. He appreciates her for her allowing herself to be _"vulnerable"_ and trusting him to the extent where she can be _vulnerable_.


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## greenpearl

LOVE makes a woman submissive!


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## JoReba

themrs said:


> There's a lot of back and forth about the dominant man topic, but not much is said about the other part of the equation - the submissive wife.
> 
> Do you consider yourself submissive to your husband?


Women need to be asubmissive to their husbands. They cannot figure out much or do much by themselves.

Men do just fine without women fussing about things.


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## JoReba

BigBadWolf said:


> There is much I keep wanting to say, but there is nothing I can think that is not already said more eloquent by themrs.
> 
> But there is just as a reference to what I say when a "woman strives to be dominated", it is again just this, it is her power over a man to challenge him to be the better man than he was even the day before, and to continue to be the better man even tomorrow.
> 
> To see that the dynamic of dominance and submission, is to recognize the powers of natural sexual motivation that the man and woman possess to each other, to fiercely and intuitively motivate each other to, at least we are hoping, to strive to become better and stronger and more connected to one another.
> 
> I will continue to watch this thread with much interest.


Is it okay if a man challenges his wife to be better than she was the day before?

Lol.


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## Mom6547

greenpearl said:


> LOVE makes a woman submissive!


Love makes people strive to be better people. People can't be what they aren't.


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## Trenton

I agree with much of what is posted here and I'm starting to think it comes down to semantics. I do think that a great relationship has both partners fluxing between both dominant and submissive roles to enhance the relationship and the individuals. 

It is a great topic and it's nice to read some fresh perspectives and experiences!


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## major misfit

I asked my SO if he considered me a "submissive" woman. He started laughing. I took that to mean no. I walk a fine line sometimes between wanting to control a situation, and allowing natural consequences to run their course. I've found that allowing the consequences is a much better way to go. 
I think the word submissive is open to different interpretations. Because of my upbringing, I might interpret it in a more biblical sense. Someone else might not. At any rate, I'm not a submissive woman. My sweetie is by far not a submissive man. Thankfully we agree on most things, lol!


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## RandomDude

Despite the rather constant headbanging I get into, I actually do appreciate the upfrontness of the missus, sometimes she ends up being right all along, other times when it's not a right/wrong issue however - it becomes a problem. But I wouldn't have it any other way. I can't STAND yes-women.

Personally I rather despise the whole "submissive" woman thing. My people also have a full history of powerful women and many tribes were also matriachal. The trick in marriage is to find someone who is your equal, and who is strong for you, not against you. If there's an issue, speak out, don't submit if it's just going to fester inside and make you miserable and it's also just going to make us men start feeling like sh-t too.

I believe in equality myself.


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## reachingshore

Who says being submissive equals to being a yes-person? There are such agreements where a person is totally submissive bordering on completely dependent (has to be told what to do and when to do it), but those are extreme examples (like that Asian guy in one of the House MD episodes)

Dominance/submission does include communication, in fact communication is encouraged.


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## RandomDude

Reminds me of that movie, what was it? With Eddie Murphy...

That's right! "Coming to America" lol


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## reachingshore

I know that movie.. one of my favorites of Murphy's. 

Remind me what was there in that movie concerning the topic.


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## RandomDude

The first part, when he meets his princess - who was groomed to be perfect for him in every way - to the point when he told her to jump up and down for no reason she did lol

I can't believe you forgot that part! It's the reason why he even went to America in the first place heh


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## reachingshore

Heh, I am getting the movie now. I saw it when I was 12 years old. Never seen it in original actually.

And no - that is not the point in dominance/submission concept LOL One does not tailor-make one's mate. One tailor-makes one's relationship - together with one's mate.


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## RandomDude

Ok I think I misunderstood this thread then lol


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## Catherine602

I am naturally submissive modeled after my Mom and Both grandmothers. 

I have a demanding job where I have a number of people subordinate to me. When I get home, I want to relax into my more natural self. I don't like giving orders or being the boss of anything or anyone when I am at home. 

I love to cook and I have to bring the food to the table myself and serve where necessary. Makes me feel good when I do that. I love taking care of my husband and kids but I do need help from my husband because of my work. We put the kids to work with chores. 

I am so happy that my husband is intelligent and never backs down or let me get away with any antics (in a nice way) - I am opinionated, I think I know everything, and I like discussing things. He keeps me in check and I love it. I could not be attracted to a man that did not stand up to me. I like being told what to do in the bedroom too.


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## reachingshore

Pandakiss said:


> i think RD has a point....if you are too ok...what ever you say... then how are you as a person??
> 
> without some conflict, there is no learning basis to figure out another person.
> 
> its like "the breakup" i want you to want to do the dishes...


If it's not OK then you just say it. And if he isn't willing to help out with washing the dishes, he ends up buying you the dishwasher LOL


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## Trenton

Panda, this is the catch-22 within the word. No one can submit all the time and this applies to both men and women. A man who does this is a doormat and a woman who does this is boring and I don't think that either is likely to be happy.

Catherine, I never would have thought from your posts that this was the case but so glad that it is. You define what a strong and independent woman is to me. You are choosing your life on your terms and doing so out of caring, but you can also stand on your own if need be.


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## reachingshore

But that is the point. If we are submissive in our relationships because we choose to be submissive in our relationships. It doesn't mean that we are submissive overall or that we choose to be submissive overall.

I remember once my husband commented that had I been with a man less strong than my husband I would have probably run him down. I probably mellowed with time, but when it comes to my relationship the principle has stayed the same: it's my choice to be submissive when it comes to my relationship with my husband.


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## Catherine602

Trenton said:


> Catherine, I never would have thought from your posts that this was the case but so glad that it is. You define what a strong and independent woman is to me. You are choosing your life on your terms and doing so out of caring, but you can also stand on your own if need be.


Thank you T, It surprises many people who know me in my home and then see me at work. I am totally different at work, I put on my game face to get the job done. But my house and family are my shelters from the storm. Growing up as I did in an environment where almost all of the woman were SAHM, indoctrinated me to accept that as my norm. All together, my parents had 9 female siblings and only one worked as an part -time accountant. 

However, I was always good in school and I have a thrust for knowledge that I cannot control. I am in a helping profession which was one of my dreams. 

I may sound resolute but I am not really. I like to debate as it helps me work things out. I have changed a great deal after meeting and marrying my H; he is smarter that I am, and can out think me and does not take any s**t. He is not mean or abusive but he has a strong character and a sense of humor.


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## sinnister

I know I am new here and I am obviously missing something from another thread or prior discussion perhaps..but after reading some of the responses here I have to admit I'm a little bit shocked.

I am an Alpha Male. I always have been and always will be. I was raised by a single mother who taught me by example to be a strong leader. I've applied that to school, sports, and now in my adult life my work and home life. But...

My wife was also raised to be very independent. She is a quiet leader. She makes great decisions which have reflected in her early success in her carrer. 

We have major issues in our marriage but this is not one of them. I deliberately sought out this type of woman to marry. I need her strength and ability to speak out at me when required. I thrive on the chaos of us butting heads on major financial decisions because more often than not, the intense dialogue produces the best decision for our family.

I also love the idea of a strong and independent woman raising my daughters to be the same. Strength of will is a quality that I hold in the utmost regard.

Whatever works for a couple they should do, but my wife would be sick to her stomach if she had to "submit" to anybody.


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## Mrs.G

Andre2000 said:


> No I think you answered it perfectly.
> I think the "trust" part hits the nail on the head big time. Also, what you said about being nurturing, and supportive and giving guidance is included in my idea of being a dominant male. Is it possible then that a woman can outgrow a man then in this model? If so, what kind of man will she need?


Of course it's possible. A woman can become more independent and no longer want to be dominated. She will need a man that only seeks to enrich their relationship, not control her like a child.


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## Mrs.G

nice777guy said:


> I don't get it.
> 
> Why would any woman want to PRACTICE saying "Yes dear - whatever you think" as a way of life?
> 
> I feel like I'm beginning to understand and buy into men being more dominant / active / macho in regards to sex and romance.
> 
> But when it comes time to buy your first house - your hubby wants a *30 year *variable loan, and you think a fixed is more appropriate - do you sit back and say "yes dear - whatever you think"???
> 
> Then - when rates shoot up, you really just sit back passively and think quietly to yourself "oh well, he made a mistake...."??
> 
> Or do you REALLY think - "WHY DIDN'T THAT IDIOT LISTEN TO ME, I TRIED TO TELL HIM, etc., etc.,"
> 
> Seems like a good path to resentment to me. I'm starting to "get" the difference in needs, but having a penis does NOT make me an expert on all matters. Would be great if it did.
> 
> Testosterone may make me more naturally aggressive - and maybe we (men) are being taught to repress these feelings to a fault. But testosterone does not make me naturally intelligent.
> 
> What am I missing here?


Not one damn thing. My husband would run for the hills if I agreed with him all the time and left everything up to him. Where is the challenge in that?
I think that men are naturally controlling, because society tells them they can be. When I was single, I would just laugh at any man who thought he could boss me about. This was after being with a manipulative older man for two years.


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## Trenton

Just re-read this thread as if it were my first time reading it because I am so off today I didn't check dates and then I came upon my own contribution and thought...wth is that? Ha! I can't believe I was so submissive in this thread.


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## moonangel

Is being submissive another way of saying being their slave? j/c. Not in a way that they have no control but that they want to be or think that it's how they should be?


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## Mark_E

Neither my wife nor I are submissive. We have daughters and sons, and do not want to give the impression that either parent (or sex for that matter) should have an opinion that is regarded as less important than the other.

Our situation works for us, and we want our children to take on board the fact that we are both equal. We do not want our sons to dominate, or our daughters to be submissive (or vice versa).

My wife and I look at life from a parent's perspective, and want our children to have the best start in life.

I am certainly not judging others. Maybe when our children fly the nest the positions and roles in our house-hold might change.


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## moonangel

Here's a definition of submissive:

Submissiveness is the incidence or trait of voluntarily yielding to the expressed will of another or some display of force [wiki].

btw, I asked husband if he thought I was submissive and he gave me a big NO.

So, what's it called when I ask husband to put the kids to bed? Not because I don't want to do it but more of 'cause I think it would be good for the kids to see him before bed since he usually works all day and barely sees them during the week and sometimes weekends?


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## chellepgh

Interesting thread. After a failed 20 year relationship where I was absolutly 'the boss' (even though I realized that was not a good thing, it was too late, I couldn't get him to 'step up'), I started dating someone who would say things to me like "you are just the right amount of submissive for me", and I would think "are you KIDDING me". He made comments like 'you might be trainable after all" and I would think I was going to kill him. But yet, three years later I wake up and wonder if this life is even real. Somehow I have moved into much more of a submissive role, well, not really somehow, but by deciding to try something different, and now that I'm there I can't even believe how differently the whole relationship is. The longer we are together the more I look to him to handle lots of things that I used to have to deal with, and the more control I turn over to him the more he treats me like a princess. There are days when I wake up for work and my shoes are neatly polished by my bedside. Or I get a gift certificate for a massage via email, just because "you deserve to treat yourself to this". I would never have thought that keeping my mouth a little quieter, leaving my attitude at the door (there were several instances of "don't get that tone with me" that occurred), and making a few simple changes could produce such a rewarding relationship.

I have a lot of people who say "you are so lucky, he treats you so well", but yet I haven't really disclosed to many that I say things like "yes, sir, no sir" or "whatever you think dear" on a regular basis. I'm not quite sure if I'm ready to divulge the dynamics of our relationship that are a big part of this over all happiness.

Anyway - interesting thread, I enjoyed reading your experiences with this subject.


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## Trenton

chellepgh said:


> Interesting thread. After a failed 20 year relationship where I was absolutly 'the boss' (even though I realized that was not a good thing, it was too late, I couldn't get him to 'step up'), I started dating someone who would say things to me like "you are just the right amount of submissive for me", and I would think "are you KIDDING me". He made comments like 'you might be trainable after all" and I would think I was going to kill him. But yet, three years later I wake up and wonder if this life is even real. Somehow I have moved into much more of a submissive role, well, not really somehow, but by deciding to try something different, and now that I'm there I can't even believe how differently the whole relationship is. The longer we are together the more I look to him to handle lots of things that I used to have to deal with, and the more control I turn over to him the more he treats me like a princess. There are days when I wake up for work and my shoes are neatly polished by my bedside. Or I get a gift certificate for a massage via email, just because "you deserve to treat yourself to this". I would never have thought that keeping my mouth a little quieter, leaving my attitude at the door (there were several instances of "don't get that tone with me" that occurred), and making a few simple changes could produce such a rewarding relationship.
> 
> I have a lot of people who say "you are so lucky, he treats you so well", but yet I haven't really disclosed to many that I say things like "yes, sir, no sir" or "whatever you think dear" on a regular basis. I'm not quite sure if I'm ready to divulge the dynamics of our relationship that are a big part of this over all happiness.
> 
> Anyway - interesting thread, I enjoyed reading your experiences with this subject.


Have you recently read 50 Shades of Grey? I hope your inner goddess isn't doing cartwheels or something. :rofl:


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## PrincessMarie

I probably need to be more submissive like I was when we were dating. We believe in past lives and after discussing back and forth a dream we keep having, we believe we were partners before. Though, his personality isn't normal and it never has been. He has always acted as if he's from a different time period and his accent does not match where he was raised for 16 years.

Anywhoo, I think he expects me to be a 1700s house wife or something. If I don't share my problems, don't show negative emotions (crying, depression, etc.) and don't question anything he does, he treats me like his little princess. If I do anything that aggrivates him, his disposition towards me does a 180. Even if it's just being a few minutes late home from a lunch date with a friend when I haven't been out for months. He expects me to be able to do everything even though I'm working and he gets mad that I'm the one with the job.

I think being submissive makes most men happy, but I know a lot who like women who are in charge of themselves too.


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## working_together

This is for sure interesting...I used to be very submissive is the sense that my ex was pretty much the boss of the house, but I was a bit passive aggressive as well. 

As I got older I no longer wanted to be passive/submissive in my relationship, or in life in general. I wanted to stand up for myself, have respect for who I am as a woman and be treated properly. Then I got to thinking, that being somewhat submissive is ok at times, if I truly felt like my relationship was in a good place, maybe I could accept that position more readily. I truly feel that only equality can work, there has to be a balance in the relationship.

And I don't want my kids to be passive, I like their spunk, and they way they can speak up for themselves.


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## SimplyAmorous

themrs said:


> There's a lot of back and forth about the dominant man topic, but not much is said about the other part of the equation - the submissive wife.
> 
> Do you consider yourself submissive to your husband?


My husband is not the Dominant type... but I so very much *Respect* him.....I'd be his submissive anything. Of course he would likely chuckle if I asked him if I was "submissive"...he'd probably say... argumentative. 

I've learned over the years.. when I go ahead, not listening to him .....it bit me in the ass... loosing $$ to a friend, getting a speeding ticket on the way to Disney...once talking to my Aunt & her soon to be X in the midst of a custody battle...they both kept calling me! ... ended up I got called into Court - HE WARNED ME! Yep... I've learned.. if the man speaks.. I better listen or he is gonna ENJOY telling me ....."I told you so!!" with a big :lol::lol::lol: on his face, rubbing it in.. I'll be eating some crow. 

I think those are the only things I can even recall where He spoke and I did my own thing ... we are generally so much on the same page, I think we are basically "equal"... neither one of us goes ahead and does anything without talking to the other... getting their take, side, feelings... all of it...and we plan together. 

We both highly value each others imput.. as I think it should be. At the end of the day though.... HE is the BOSS...and really, one thing I know is...he'd never mistreat anyone, even a slave, so being submissive to a Good man... Hell, it is a pleasure really. 

I wish he'd make me submissive in the bedroom ! Now that would be a Joy


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## Browncoat

I would call my wife submissive, BUT I make a point to listen to her very closely a ton. Anytime I want to do something that's not inline with her wishes I make sure I come up with a compelling argument/reason, and I reason with her (because she's an intelligent woman and I respect her).

It's extremely rare that I make a major decision w/o her being totally on board. I constantly show her I have her interests at heart.


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