# But he / she was like that when you met him / her, so don't complain!



## hubbydude (May 15, 2014)

I feel the need to highlight how often I see the following argument used to justify otherwise unreasonable behaviour or unsavoury character traits.....

"He / She was like this when you met, so why do you expect him / her to be any different now?"

I've seen this so many times in so many discussions. It's the logical equivalent of "suck it up, buttercup". It seems that it's only aim is to label someones discontent as unreasonable and therefore end the discussion, contributing nothing positive in the process. And it suggests that actively encouraging someone else to change is an inherantly negative thing.

Personally, I take the view that if we're not changing, growing and improving over time then we're frankly not living life. I'm not the same person I was 20 years ago and neither is my wife. If I have an issue with something she does or doesn't do it shouldn't just be written off as an unreasonable complaint because "it's always been that way". And vice versa. My wife has changing demands and expectations of me as we grow and change. It's all part of the fun of marriage  The fact that something always was is no reason for it to always be.

Just wanted to throw that out there


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

But isn't the difference of expecting someone to change for you versus for themselves. If on one hand you meet someone and you fall in love with someone who has a behavior you don't like but you accept them as they are, with some deep seeded expectation that they will change after you marry them, and then they don't...who is at fault? whose to blame when their behavior does not change...on the other hand they marry you and they change on their own because they see their behavior as unacceptable and are better for it. Isn't it better to marry some who does not have behaviors that are counter productive to your own?
I agree with you we all change some for the better some for the worse, often times seeded in the past and blossomed in the future.


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

Thing is, Hubbydude's own domestic example is exactly what couples should do - grow, change, adapt, compromise, communicate, etc, around a foundation of mutual respect. BUT, those couples don't generally start threads cuz they're relatively happy.

The ones who do start such threads can't do those things above. Many seem emotionally immature and/or inexperienced. Often they seem unduly influenced by perceived social norms - they want their partners to be more like (insert celebrity/dress code/current trend) rather than encouraging them to be themselves.

Those things conspire to create relationships like the following.

Couple meet. They have a lot in common. Decide they're soulmates and swifly move in together. It's great. The infatuation/honeymoon period wears off. It's soon apparent they've ridden the wave of good fortune on those things in common - and totally failed to see the differences. BOTH think the other has changed and refuses to change back. They row constantly cuz they never learned to work through the differences. They cite third parties they think the other should be more like to bolster their POVs. Each becomes entrenched. Shortly thereafter one of them starts a thread on TAM. It'll be about how their SO refuses to change OR about how their SO has changed beyond all recognition.

Neither are true. They just failed to notice their fundamental differences from the outset, then lacked the tools to do all the compromise and communication stuff.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tonedef (Aug 7, 2014)

I agree. Even if a person doesn't want to change, they can still reach a compromise. I see a spouse being very unreasonable about something, and while they were most likely like that before marriage, I think it is selfish to not want to change certain behaviors/compromise for your spouse and have no business being married. Example- I knew my husband was a gamer, but I didn't like him doing it ALL DAY and ignoring the kids and I, so he plays at night around bed time. No big deal. I am working on changing certain things about me he wanted. It is part of evolving and growing as a couple.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

We do get people posting things like "my spouse was never very sexual and we were never that into each other, but I just thought things would get better". In those cases, the right answer is "but that's who you married, why did you marry them if you don't love them as they are?"

You have to start with reality and go from there. Not start with how you wish people would change and go from there.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

It some cases, it's definitely warranted.

"He was married when we met and still won't divorce his wife. I'm mad. When is he going to leeeeave her?" 

"She had a drinking problem and I knew this and it's only gotten worse. We're getting married but the problem persists."

"She/he has never wanted to have sex more than once every 3 weeks since the beginning of our relationship and I want more sex but she/he doesn't do anything about it. Will this change?"

Really?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

"When I first met my husband, when he got angry he fling his poo across the room. At first I thought it was cute but after ten years of marriage, now our house smells like sh!t!"


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

People don't change all that much once they get into their 20s or thereabouts.

Unless you've been bait and switched, you can't really complain, you got what you paid for.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I also think that there's a difference between asking your partner to make changes and expecting/demanding that they change. You're well within your rights to ask your partner to change. But they are also well within their rights to say no. It's what happens next that gets people into trouble - the insistence, demands, coercive tactics, manipulations, and resentments inherent in futilely trying to make someone do what you want. Because you can't control other people. You can only control yourself. If you want your partner to change, and he or she doesn't want to, your only real options are to accept them as-is, negotiate a win-win solution, or leave. You cannot make them be different if they don't want to. 

So, yes, if your partner was like that when you married, then you really cannot reasonably insists that they change. You can hope, you can ask, you can beg, you can stomp and kick and scream, there can be gnashing of teeth and rending of garments - but you can't make them change. After all, they were acceptable enough to marry. Just because you changed and now want something different, or always hoped they'd change but went ahead anyway, doesn't mean they are required to comply with your demands. 

Which is why it's so important to pick well when you choose a mate, and to select someone who wants to please you and sees win-win negotiation as a vital part of a happy marriage. Because you can't make another person change, but you can ask that they do, and hopefully you've married someone who wants to work with you. Just as they may ask you to change, and hopefully they've married someone who wants to work with them.


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## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

tonedef said:


> Example- I knew my husband was a gamer, but I didn't like him doing it ALL DAY and ignoring the kids and I.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I hope you allow him his 'get out' clause for any new releases of GTA - They HAVE to be played in non-stop 48hr stints at the expense of all known things.

(New Thread)

-"My wife broke GTA clause and hid my controller. Should I file for D?"

- Yes

- You need to ask?

- Serves you right for not marrying a gamer chick.

- That's just plain wrong.

Etc.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SpinDaddy (Nov 12, 2012)

*Howdy HubbyDude,*

Wow point taken but you’re targeting my three favorite prescriptions of folksy wisdom, plays upon legal disclaimers and bayou proverbs:


“If you didn’t want to go to Chicago why did you get on the train going to Chicago?”
“Past performance does not guarantee future investment performance – but it’s a damn good indicator of what to expect.”
The story of Swamp Frog and Bayou Scorpion.

While I agree there has to be some reasonableness to this type of an observation, I disagree that it’s the logical equivalent of "suck it up, buttercup" but rather it is more in line with “Why do you keep throwing good money after bad money?”

Frequently, I see people here relegating to fate what is, in all reality, the consequence of a bad choice compounded by a series of further bad choices predicated upon the original bad call.

Ultimately, it all too often does go back to the original bad call and the train is going to go to Chicago whether you’re on it or not. Sometimes, the best thing to do is jump off in Iowa and find a different direction.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Sorry but merit is made for that argument like it or not. If a person dates someone who Is low drive sexually then marries them and complains that's kinda on the person who married them. 

Somehow when they were dating this wasn't a deal breaker

Somehow when they got engaged and this wasn't a deal breaker

But now that we are married have a couple of kids and I have leverage to take something away from you....NOW it's a deal breaker.

I believe in taking the good with the bad but it's funny how after marriage so many focus on the bad and can't seem to remember any of the good that balanced that other scale. 

If you marry someone expecting that event to change them for the better i think you are really fooling yourself.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

hubbydude said:


> I feel the need to highlight how often I see the following argument used to justify otherwise unreasonable behaviour or unsavoury character traits.....
> 
> "He / She was like this when you met, so why do you expect him / her to be any different now?"
> 
> ...


Is it reasonable to assume people change over time...sometimes good, sometimes bad....of course.

Is it reasonable to ask things of your REASONABLE spouse...sure.

Are all people reasonable?

The flaw in your argument is that it removes a person's control.

When I married my wife, I made the decisions based on me and what I have control over...myself. I made sure my wife had 2 very important parts...1. she was EXACTLY the type of person I wanted to marry. I didn't hope something would change "to make her the full package"...I made sure she ALREADY was the full package...and 2. that when changes in the future would happen, either to me or her, that she was the type of person who could address them reasonably.

I didn't marry an alcoholic and hope they wouldn't drink. I didn't marry a cheater, hoping she'd suddenly be loyal to me.

Here's the big issue when it comes to this discussion. There are core traits to people and behaviors. People can adjust and change their behaviors...they are not going to change the core of who they are.

Usually when someone says "you knew they were a snake when you picked them up" it's because the person is complaining about how the "snake" isn't changing their core traits. 

Leopard and spots....you know...

There's a reason there are so many cliche' ways to describe this.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

people will do what they can get away with. They treat you like you teach them too. 

Want to change someones behavior towards you? Change you..Change into someone that just doesn't put up with bull**** because they don't have to. It takes time....but, the more awesome you become (attractive, strong, thinner, richer, whatever), the more the other persons perception of you changes. 

I'll say it again...others treat us like we taught them too. Retraining is possible...but it always starts with you.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I have always greatly cared about my appearance. Perfect hair. Perfect makeup. Perfect clothes. Perfect shoes. Every moment. Nothing casual about me. And it takes considerable time and effort to achieve but it's how I am. My former husband was well aware of that when we married. Had he told me at some point after we were married that he preferred a more casual look, I would have tried very hard to meet his expectations because I would have wanted to please him but I would have wondered why he didn't marry someone more in tune with his casual nature. 

He had to wear suits to work every day but every moment he didn't have to be in a suit he was in very casual jeans and a t-shirt. I knew that about him before we were married. On occasion during our marriage I would remind him that wherever we were going wasn't suitable for his preferred way to dress but overall I let him be who he was and I expected him to let me be who I was. Because we both knew what we were getting when we were married.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Lila said:


> *Right or wrong, most people do not enter into a marriage expecting their spouse's personality/essence (what makes them who they are) to change. This is an extreme example but I don't know anyone who on their wedding day expects their Dr. Hyde to change into Mr. Jekyll in the future.
> 
> When people advise a person "this is who your spouse was when you married him/her" what they're saying is you can accept them as is or not, your choice, but it's not fair to blame them for being who they are. Asking them to change who they've been their whole lives is basically saying "I think there is something wrong with who you are intrinsically".
> 
> People do mature based on life experiences and we do learn behaviors and coping mechanisms that reward us in daily life, but I don't believe we actually change who we are deep down inside. Characteristics are dampened or enhanced but that overall person is still the same deep inside*.


I agree with this very much..:smthumbup: 

If one was to take myself & H... how we were back then (30 + yrs ago) to how / who we are today..... if anything... we have grown Better in a # of ways.. (I lost my religion and got more sexual -







!!)... him.. he has grown in handyman skills, makes a better living.. but over all.. what we were made of THEN ... what we wanted, dreamed of, that shared vision... we'd DO it all over again nearly the same...

I can't really relate to those who change in a fundamental way after the vows....all I ever think is... they must have been partying too much , on drugs and not knew who they were back then, what they wanted out of life/ love ... 

It almost damns those of us who don't change all that much... like we are the weird ones.. 

I married a man tipped Beta (not a bad thing).. the family type...(that's what I wanted [email protected]#)....if I suddenly decided I wanted to become a Hell's angel chick, buy a Harley & run off ditching the kids..







. he'd think I lost my mind [email protected]#$... I suppose mid life can bring some crazy changes like that to some! 

We could all *tweak* a few things for the benefit of pleasing each other along the way.. in exploring new things, experiences....yES!

But at our core.. if we marry an ho hum "not showing much Oomph" in the bedroom low driver (don't expect much passion! or







) ... a porn addict (intimacy will be driven into the ground)...someone emotionally unavailable (God help you if you care about such things!).... a gambler / an alcoholic (addictions all bring much suffering in one form or another)... someone who has not been able to keep a job.. history speaks...are we listening carefully enough....Know your deal breakers before going in...

A frivolous spender won't suddenly becomes Mrs/ Mr "frugality"...don't expect a Homebody to become a social animal , they will bulk at going out too much......

Nor do our *love languages* generally change .... so KNOW them going in....if one loves cuddling, lots of touch.. whatever you do.. don't marry someone who would feel smothered by this! The toucher will still crave touch.. and the smothered will still want his or her space....it's a core part of who we are .... 



> *Dad&Hubby said*: When I married my wife, I made the decisions based on me and what I have control over...myself. I made sure my wife had 2 very important parts...1. she was EXACTLY the type of person I wanted to marry. I didn't hope something would change "to make her the full package"...I made sure she ALREADY was the full package...and 2. that when changes in the future would happen, either to me or her, that she was the type of person who could address them reasonably.
> 
> I didn't marry an alcoholic and hope they wouldn't drink. I didn't marry a cheater, hoping she'd suddenly be loyal to me.
> 
> ...


 So well explained !










When speaking to young people who think they are in love.. our sons & their GF's for instance.. I am really BIG on having them look at every unfavorable aspect....those little red flags.. baby flaws.... to magnify them larger..... this is what they should expect going in.. better to be on the cautious side....much less surprises that way!


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