# Keeping Score



## Gaming Your Wife (Jun 16, 2011)

I have tried this before like many other things is does not help?
Do you think it is a bad idea to keep a chart or a calendar in the bedroom.My wife has always felt that things are not as bad as I think they are? What a shame it is .Do I give her a star on the wall for sex? I think most of us know how many times we have had sex in month? But its easy to forget about six months ago.Maybe I an trying to make her accountable?Never thought it would come to this?But she tells me I don't have it so bad. BS.Plus maybe I can use it court for evidence and the male judge would lock her up?


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## Naomi22 (Dec 27, 2012)

so what exactly is your issue you are trying to figure out? Does your wife not want to have sex with you and you want her to and you are trying to figure out how to get her to more? IF so, perhaps looking into your approach- how you touch her- maybe you need to give her a massage, make her feel safe and loved- talk to her kindly- and she will soften up? You deserve to have sex so you are right to be trying to figure it out. How often do you have sex and how often do you wish you were? Why do you think she doesn't want to?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

LOL.. male judge would lock her up???? LOL

How often do you two have sex? How often do you want to have sex?

How many hours a week do the two of you spend doing things together?


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Some people think keeping score is good,some do it for health reasons.Personally,I don't like it and would never do it.Then again,I'm not in a sex deprived relationship so there is no need.

I agree with what Naomi is saying in her post.


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## IndyTMI (Oct 26, 2012)

I downloaded a female calendar app for my iPad and it allows you to track all sorts of info, but I use it mainly for tracking when we have sex vs when we masturbate each other. After our talk the frequency went from 2 times a month to 3 times the first week, then once a week ever since. But the wife claims we practally do it every day. She asked me if I was keeping track and I danced around the question.


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## Kermitty (Dec 27, 2012)

Why not keep track but don't tell her. It's just good to have evidence when she says one number and you have proof that it is different.


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## Gaming Your Wife (Jun 16, 2011)

Naomi22 said:


> so what exactly is your issue you are trying to figure out? Does your wife not want to have sex with you and you want her to and you are trying to figure out how to get her to more? IF so, perhaps looking into your approach- how you touch her- maybe you need to give her a massage, make her feel safe and loved- talk to her kindly- and she will soften up? You deserve to have sex so you are right to be trying to figure it out. How often do you have sex and how often do you wish you were? Why do you think she doesn't want to?


Well, Some of us have strange marriage's ? I am married 30 yrs.To a very LD women.Who will tell you,She adore's me.I am her everything.But she does not require sex,She does not think about it.Its never on her mind.And she could be A-sexual.Six weeks ago I had a melt down and said no more pity sex,Duty sex,I said I want you to keep that.So in six weeks I have not asked for sex or mention it.And she appears to be fine with it.She is one of those that says I am sorry I have been busy at work.I will be better later? this year we had sex about 1-3. Some times I go for 3-4 weeks no sex.Two times this year she has had one of these mental break downs where she saids I can't take it anymore.You always want sex.Stop it Stop it.She totally fraks out. So I stop asking for it. And She is happy. So please don't say to give her a massage,Or be good to her.Or Cuddle more with her. I am a smart man and know how to do it.And it does not work.She is a human being that does not require sex to fulfill her life.This does not make her a bad person.She is wonderful.Beautiful,Fun to be around,But she does not need a D**K to keep her happy.


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## IsGirl3 (Nov 13, 2012)

I used to keep track, but never did anything with the info. My issue was reversed, though. My husband thought we hardly ever had sex, and I kept track for 43 days and counted 17 times we did something - oral sex, PIV, masturbate each other. So that came out to something every 2-3 days. I did it for myself so that I knew what the truth was.

I'm sorry to read that it seems like you've tried everything but nothing seems to work.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Gaming Your Wife said:


> Well, Some of us have strange marriage's ? I am married 30 yrs.To a very LD women.Who will tell you,She adore's me.I am her everything.But she does not require sex,She does not think about it.Its never on her mind.And she could be A-sexual.Six weeks ago I had a melt down and said no more pity sex,Duty sex,I said I want you to keep that.So in six weeks I have not asked for sex or mention it.And she appears to be fine with it.She is one of those that says I am sorry I have been busy at work.I will be better later? this year we had sex about 1-3. Some times I go for 3-4 weeks no sex.Two times this year she has had one of these mental break downs where she saids I can't take it anymore.You always want sex.Stop it Stop it.She totally fraks out. So I stop asking for it. And She is happy. So please don't say to give her a massage,Or be good to her.Or Cuddle more with her. I am a smart man and know how to do it.And it does not work.She is a human being that does not require sex to fulfill her life.This does not make her a bad person.She is wonderful.Beautiful,Fun to be around,But she does not need a D**K to keep her happy.


well then you need to decide if this is a deal breaker for you!

and theres nothing wrong with you if you decide that it is .


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

IndyTM said:


> She asked me if I was keeping track and I danced around the question.


Why? Tell her the truth, what's she going to do, cut you off?



Gaming Your Wife said:


> Well, Some of us have strange marriage's ? I am married 30 yrs.To a very LD women.Who will tell you,She adore's me.I am her everything.But she does not require sex,She does not think about it.Its never on her mind.And she could be A-sexual.Six weeks ago I had a melt down and said no more pity sex,Duty sex,I said I want you to keep that.So in six weeks I have not asked for sex or mention it.And she appears to be fine with it.She is one of those that says I am sorry I have been busy at work.I will be better later? this year we had sex about 1-3. Some times I go for 3-4 weeks no sex.Two times this year she has had one of these mental break downs where she saids I can't take it anymore.You always want sex.Stop it Stop it.She totally fraks out. So I stop asking for it. And She is happy. So please don't say to give her a massage,Or be good to her.Or Cuddle more with her. *I am a smart man* and know how to do it.And it does not work.She is a human being that does not require sex to fulfill her life.This does not make her a bad person.She is wonderful.Beautiful,Fun to be around,But she does not need a D**K to keep her happy.


Are you? You know you are in a relationship with a wife who you wonder if she's asexual, then tell her you don't want any duty sex/chore sex and expect her to not be happy with this?

Plus you think a male judge would lock her up? 

Either **** or get off the pot. Tell her sex is a need in a marriage for you and that if she can't work with you on it, then that's fine but you'll be leaving to look for that need to fulfilled elsewhere. Either that or just lie back, accept your sexless situation and deal with it. There's only two options, especially for someone whose set a 30 year precident.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Gaming Your Wife said:


> Well, Some of us have strange marriage's ? I am married 30 yrs.To a very LD women.Who will tell you,She adore's me.I am her everything.But she does not require sex,She does not think about it.Its never on her mind.And she could be A-sexual.Six weeks ago I had a melt down and said no more pity sex,Duty sex,I said I want you to keep that.So in six weeks I have not asked for sex or mention it.And she appears to be fine with it.She is one of those that says I am sorry I have been busy at work.I will be better later? this year we had sex about 1-3. Some times I go for 3-4 weeks no sex.Two times this year she has had one of these mental break downs where she saids I can't take it anymore.You always want sex.Stop it Stop it.She totally fraks out. So I stop asking for it. And She is happy. So please don't say to give her a massage,Or be good to her.Or Cuddle more with her. I am a smart man and know how to do it.And it does not work.She is a human being that does not require sex to fulfill her life.This does not make her a bad person.She is wonderful.Beautiful,Fun to be around,But she does not need a D**K to keep her happy.


So you want to keep track of what a miserable sex life you have? Something you can look at and remind yourself every day? 

My therapist suggested I keep track of when my wife and I had sex because, like your wife, mine had a perception that was not reality (she thought we were having sex every week when it was actually every three weeks).

When we went to marriage counseling, the counselor thought it was a good idea but my wife thought it was horrible so your wife may have the same reaction.

But the bigger issue is what to do about the lack of sex. For me, the first thing was to explain to my wife that I expected an intimate, fulfilling sexual component in the marriage, it was important to me, the marriage would not survive with out it and I would make sure I'm taking care of her needs so she will be happy to take care of mine.

Then I started asking for sex when I wanted it. That may be once per week, it may be 3 times during the week. If she wasn't interested, it forced her to say no. If she did, I'd ask the next day.

The point is that the number of times you have sex isn't important. It's whether your needs are being met. It's a feeling, not a number and when I have a feeling that my needs aren't being met, she knows there can be problems in the marriage.

So, you can count and chart and diagram if you want but you know in your heart whether or not your needs are being met.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

I think a sex calander is good, but only for your own reference to ensure you aren't wrong in your thinking. I wouldn't throw it in her face down the line. It's just a measure to see if what you think is accurate is true or not. Sometimes just knowing the facts can help you reason out a better angle to bring forward the discussion. Plus you might notice trends. I did a sex calander for my ex-wife for a few months and I learned certain trends so well that I could pinpoint to the day a month ahead when sex would be an option. Sad in hindsight, but it proved helpful at the time.

I would only do a calander for a few months though, as beyond that it'll just bum you out.

And I would also make it a private calander, not something hanging in your bedroom like some to do list. It's just for your information, so keep it private. If she did find out out about it, or even just ask you about it, be honest though. No lies, and if she can't handle the truth, so be it.


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## Gaming Your Wife (Jun 16, 2011)

IslandGirl3 said:


> I used to keep track, but never did anything with the info. My issue was reversed, though. My husband thought we hardly ever had sex, and I kept track for 43 days and counted 17 times we did something - oral sex, PIV, masturbate each other. So that came out to something every 2-3 days. I did it for myself so that I knew what the truth was.
> 
> I'm sorry to read that it seems like you've tried everything but nothing seems to work.


The one thing that I have realize about TAM is that all the female's that enjoy sex think that all you have to do is Cuddle with your wife.Show her you love her.Watch TV together,Take her on a date.Do the dishes.I just love it.But you are all sexual.I would love to hear from a LD female once with the solution to the problem of why they do not enjoy sex


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Gaming Your Wife said:


> I would love to hear from a LD female once with the solution to the problem of why they do not enjoy sex


-she doesn't enjoy sex with you because you aren't doing it the way she likes it and she's too nice to tell you the truth

-she'd rather get her orgasms via masturbation behind your back and fake a headache or tiredness when it comes to having sex with you because it's easier to masturbate

-she doesn't feel sexy,has a low self esteem,and doesn't want to be naked and jiggling her fatty bits in front of anyone

-it's hormonal and she honestly has no idea why she doesn't want sex.

-sex is too invasive.you have to bare your body,open your legs,have someone poke you in the vagina until they cum and then you're messy,gooey,and out of sorts. Some women LOVE that...others,not so much.

The reasons can go on and on.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

-it's not exciting anymore

-she's tired of the same old moves to get her in the mood

-she resents you for something or many somethings


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

-she has stomach issues and if you're having sex after dinner or later she's bloaty,gassy,and uncomfortable 

-when you come on to her she hasn't had time to shower and doesn't want to be naked because she thinks she smells bad


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Gaming, you're going to have to filter out a lot of projection. I already see the posturing has starting on this thread. I've been guilty of not understanding other posters on TAM regarding LD wife thread and after many pages finally understanding where they're coming from.


By "His needs / Her needs" and you both read it. Otherwise you and your wife will dig in to your positions and not communicate. This is one of the more hotly debated topics on TAM and it's always pissed off jaded people on both sides of the issue but it doesn't have to be that way.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> Gaming, you're going to have to filter out a lot of projection. I already see the posturing has starting on this thread. I've been guilty of not understanding other posters on TAM regarding LD wife thread and after many pages finally understanding where they're coming from.
> 
> 
> By "His needs / Her needs" and you both read it. Otherwise you and your wife will dig in to your positions and not communicate. This is one of the more hotly debated topics on TAM and it's always pissed off jaded people on both sides of the issue but it doesn't have to be that way.


uh oh I hope I wasn't coming off as posturing or whatever. The things I posted were actual reasons my female friends have talked to me about,not meant to be a jerk to OP or anything.he wanted LD woman's perspective.


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## Gaming Your Wife (Jun 16, 2011)

Chris you got it. Always good to see another pov. It really does not mater how many times in a month,But its how good it was.And theirs is no need to make evendence for someone who has failed to offer their hushand a balance sex life.


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## Gaming Your Wife (Jun 16, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> uh oh I hope I wasn't coming off as posturing or whatever. The things I posted were actual reasons my female friends have talked to me about,not meant to be a jerk to OP or anything.he wanted LD woman's perspective.


Ya that's like saying you were holding it for a friend. Glad to hear your'e not like that,But your friends are?


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> uh oh I hope I wasn't coming off as posturing or whatever. The things I posted were actual reasons my female friends have talked to me about,not meant to be a jerk to OP or anything.he wanted LD woman's perspective.


. No Scarlet your post were not coming off that way plus it's probably good to let to go where it always goes without warning so OP sees the POVs.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Gaming Your Wife said:


> Ya that's like saying you were holding it for a friend. Glad to hear your'e not like that,But your friends are?


wow that's kinda rude. I was trying to help.

No.I am actually not like that.I'm an HD female and not having sex is unacceptable to me.


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## Zatol Ugot? (Mar 5, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> I think a sex calander is good, but only for your own reference to ensure you aren't wrong in your thinking. I wouldn't throw it in her face down the line. It's just a measure to see if what you think is accurate is true or not. Sometimes just knowing the facts can help you reason out a better angle to bring forward the discussion. Plus you might notice trends. I did a sex calander for my ex-wife for a few months and I learned certain trends so well that I could pinpoint to the day a month ahead when sex would be an option. Sad in hindsight, but it proved helpful at the time.
> 
> I would only do a calander for a few months though, as beyond that it'll just bum you out.
> 
> And I would also make it a private calander, not something hanging in your bedroom like some to do list. It's just for your information, so keep it private. If she did find out out about it, or even just ask you about it, be honest though. No lies, and if she can't handle the truth, so be it.


:iagree:
I totally agree with the above. Track if you want to make sure that you are seeing the situation clearly. Make sure that you have facts that you can use in any future discussion but using it as a weapon against your wife in an argument will turn out bad. 
About a year ago, I kept a spreadsheet on my sexual activities with my wife. It was pretty detailed. I recorded everything. After a couple of months of recording, I discovered that the lack of sex was worse than what she thought but also not quite as bad as what I thought. It helped me to put things in perspective.


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## Gaming Your Wife (Jun 16, 2011)

That did not work out for me.I made a deal with my wife for sex. She said what do you need from me. I said twice a week and I will leave you alone and no more fighting about sex.She agreed.After getting duty sex for all those years.Now I just entered a deal for more of the same but twice a week.After 2 weeks I could not take it any longer. I said I don't want duty sex you can just keep it and she is doing that . And she appears to be happy with it.No more fighting and no more sex.She won.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Gaming Your Wife said:


> That did not work out for me.I made a deal with my wife for sex. She said what do you need from me. I said twice a week and I will leave you alone and no more fighting about sex.She agreed.After getting duty sex for all those years.Now I just entered a deal for more of the same but twice a week.After 2 weeks I could not take it any longer. I said I don't want duty sex you can just keep it and she is doing that . And she appears to be happy with it.No more fighting and no more sex.She won.


Exactly. She won.

What did you think she was going to do? Fight you, cling to your arm as you walked away and throw her naked self at you, frothing at the mouth to feel you inside her?

You served up a full meal deal of No More Sex on a silver platter for her.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Gaming Your Wife said:


> That did not work out for me.I made a deal with my wife for sex. *She said what do you need from me. I said twice a week and I will leave you alone and no more fighting about sex.She agreed.After getting duty sex for all those years.Now I just entered a deal for more of the same but twice a week.After 2 weeks I could not take it any longer.* I said I don't want duty sex you can just keep it and she is doing that . And she appears to be happy with it.No more fighting and no more sex.She won.


So she asked what you need and when you said twice a week then she did that for years and you're complaining because she's not moaning loud enough or something I guess.

What you call duty sex could be called because I love you sex. She doesn't have to love sex. Actions speak louder than words so where's the rub.

I don't know, sounds like justification for something but I don't know what.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Gaming Your Wife said:


> That did not work out for me.I made a deal with my wife for sex. She said what do you need from me. I said twice a week and I will leave you alone and no more fighting about sex.She agreed.After getting duty sex for all those years.Now I just entered a deal for more of the same but twice a week.After 2 weeks I could not take it any longer. I said I don't want duty sex you can just keep it and she is doing that . And she appears to be happy with it.No more fighting and no more sex.She won.


My guess is you're not getting any because she does not like you. 

Get your act together and grow up. You come across as very whiny.


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## Gaming Your Wife (Jun 16, 2011)

Holland said:


> My guess is you're not getting any because she does not like you.
> 
> Get your act together and grow up. You come across as very whiny.


Well, Your comments seem so bitter,And i have to wonder what you get from being so harsh.I come here for ideas and help.and yes after yrs of living like I do ,I do get that I sound whiny,And that I need to grow up,And she does not like me,And I should get my act together.I think you have just transform me?I am going to grow some balls.One thing about living in a sexless marriage you kind of lose your idenity.Your pov gets mixed up.You get weak.Not sure that you understood my point I was trying to make.But what I said was after several yrs of lack of sex.My wife agreed to twice a week sex.But it was just duty sex.And it was not good for eather of us.


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## ARF (Jan 26, 2011)

I say you apologize to her for taking "duty sex" off the table and ask to reinstate the twice a week arrangement.

I also went through a time when I felt like I didn't want the duty sex either. I wanted my wife to desire sex, and due to a variety of reasons, she has been LD. If you read some of my previous posts, you can see the routes that I have taken. I have shouldered the load of our sexual problems despite being the party that was less at fault (I had plenty of fault btw). I sometimes wish that my wife has taken it upon herself to improve our sex life as I have, but I am seeing an improvement.

Its really up to you. How hard do you want to work at this?


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Thundarr said:


> What you call duty sex could be called because I love you sex. She doesn't have to love sex. Actions speak louder than words so where's the rub.


It depends on what the duty sex is. Some women will happily provide sex when they're not in the mood as part of their contribution to the marriage and as a way to connect with their husbands. And some women will hate you with their vaginas.
When She Hates You With Her Vagina | Married Man Sex Life


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Gaming Your Wife said:


> Well, Your comments seem so bitter,And i have to wonder what you get from being so harsh.I come here for ideas and help.and yes after yrs of living like I do ,I do get that I sound whiny,And that I need to grow up,And she does not like me,And I should get my act together.I think you have just transform me?I am going to grow some balls.One thing about living in a sexless marriage you kind of lose your idenity.Your pov gets mixed up.You get weak.Not sure that you understood my point I was trying to make.But what I said was after several yrs of lack of sex.My wife agreed to twice a week sex.But it was just duty sex.And it was not good for eather of us.


I think Holland was simply trying to be blunt enough for the truth to sink in. It is possible that your wife truly has no libido at all. However, if she really loved you, she wouldn't pitch fits about having sex as infrequently as you do. She would also put forth a modicum of effort designed to make you think she loved you.

But she doesn't do that. She will usually refuse you. And when she doesn't, she is passive aggressive and trying to ruin the experience for you so that you ask for less sex in the future. What that means is, as Holland said, she doesn't like you.

So, you need to decide what to do. Are you going to accept a sexless marriage with a wife who doesn't like you? Are you going to leave her soon? Or, are you going to stay temporarily while you work on self-improvement hoping that your wife becomes attracted to you, but if not, you can leave her and be better situated in the sexual marketplace. Those are really your only workable options. Just treading water like you are where you accept her treatment, but seethe over it and hope you can debate her into wanting you will obviously never work.

Your screen name is Gaming Your Wife. Yet you stubbornly refuse to incorporate any aspects of Game into your relationship. Why not? What have you got to lose? I understand that the red pill is a bitter pill to swallow. But you don't have the option of a cushy life in the matrix to fall back on. Why not take the plunge and run the MAP?


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## Elk87 (Oct 8, 2012)

My W gives "duty sex" as well, which can be as bad as no sex sometimes because she's not doing it out of love for me, but resentfully because she had to do something that she was not excited about. I can just tell.

Oddly, she does have orgasms from oral/rubbing, which I'm always sure to do, and I'm sure she enjoys that, but she just doesn't have any sort of drive to seek it out from me. She also just doesn't like to relax & let herself go crazy with me. She said it's "weird."

On the other end of Score Keeping, I've got 1/2 a mind to start a chart for chores & household duties. I'm willing to wage that I do at least 75%, then she has the nerve to grumble & gripe when everything isn't up to her standards. Ugh!

It is so strange to me that I can bend over backwards to meet her needs, but she won't do the same for me. BTW, she told me over a month ago that she wanted to see her OB/GYN b/c of LD/ND, but she's done nothing. So, if she was even just taking some action to address this concern, I'd feel SO much better! Alas, this need of mine continues to be pushed to the backburner over & over again.

Appropriately, I just read NMMNG & beginning to apply those practices, so we'll see how that goes. She's been spoiled by me for long enough & I'm losing steam. Maybe she needs to feel the void like I do.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Gaming Your Wife said:


> Well, Your comments seem so bitter,And i have to wonder what you get from being so harsh.I come here for ideas and help.and yes after yrs of living like I do ,I do get that I sound whiny,And that I need to grow up,And she does not like me,And I should get my act together.I think you have just transform me?I am going to grow some balls.One thing about living in a sexless marriage you kind of lose your idenity.Your pov gets mixed up.You get weak.Not sure that you understood my point I was trying to make.But what I said was after several yrs of lack of sex.My wife agreed to twice a week sex.But it was just duty sex.And it was not good for eather of us.


No I'm not bitter, in fact I am probably one of the least bitter people you will find. Took a few years of recovering from my own sexless marriage.

Probably it is frustration you picked up in my post. Frustration because I know too well that in all likelyhood your situation will not improve but you keep going around in circles here.

Yeah I grew the woman's version of balls and ended my marriage a few years ago. Now I am in a wonderful relationship that is healthy, balanced and we root like rabbits. Life is good.

Life is also short, might be time for you to make some of the hard decisions.


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## Getbusylivin (Dec 23, 2012)

Wedding Vows,, Didn't we all take them at one time.. Love Honor and Cherish.. until death do us part.. It doesn't say anywhere that ok I will love and cherish you with sex and affection for a certain time then I am going to completely shut down and treat you like dirt but I will still expect you to buy me nice things and make me a nice living without you getting anything in return,, Yes I am bitter and I deserve to be,, If they quit having sex with you they have quit loving you at all,, No hugs, no kisses, no emotional relationship at all.. Total Abandonment of Affection,, and you can sue for divorce for that in some states,, Men like to be held up on a pedestal sometimes too ,, told they are loved and appreciated for what they are able to provide in a marriage and a life but instead all we every here is the negative side,, getting kicked in the teeth (metaphorically) just gets old,,


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

Gaming Your Wife said:


> Now I just entered a deal for more of the same but twice a week.After 2 weeks I could not take it any longer. I said I don't want duty sex you can just keep it and she is doing that . And she appears to be happy with it.No more fighting and no more sex.She won.


Your wife was punishing you, which you have described as "duty sex". But "duty sex" can be the best blow job you ever had or your wife picking the porn you get to watch while doing her, and knowing you well enough to always pick the right girls. Getting enjoyment out of how much it got you off. 

I had a long term partner that was a savage in bed, just a sadistic monster who got joy out of ruining it for me while pretending she didn't have any idea what I was talking about when I was in such anguish over WTF was wrong with her. As I was booting her out of the house she tells me "Oh, my father regularly raped me through my entire childhood..." Instead of being a relief for explaining what was going on I was extremely angry about how hard I had tried to break through whatever was wrong and her vehemently denying the whole time that there was anything going on in her head. 

Your wife knows exactly what she is doing, and she's going to deny doing it. Because the truth is too ugly, too cruel to admit to: "I'm making sure it is miserable for you."

You could do exactly the same thing every time she asks you to take out the garbage: spill 80% of it on the floor on the way out. If she asks you to clean the floor then get coffee grounds and grease all over your hands and start caressing her hair. This is the kind of sabotage we're talking about with sex when they could equally well give you the time of your life if they wanted to. 

The ultimatum I would be delivering is that she either shape up or is sent packing, and if she pretends not to understand what she's doing then it's just proof of what a liar she is. I did read a book on adult children of child sexual abuse when mine finally confessed to me and they recommended that for some people "open affairs" were a way to cope with it. But I was not going to do that.


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## dubbizle (Jan 15, 2012)

Gaming your wife-let me ask this questions? If you divorced your wife do you think she would not be having sex with the new guy,of course she would LD or no LD but the thing is she knows you will stay around and get treated this way,so if you really want to get your whole life back you need to start planning to leave.

There are a lot of many forums that say when the person sees the divorce papers they change because they know they have to.


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