# Ladies, this question is for you



## LucasJackson (May 26, 2016)

If you don't know my story, my "Mary Poppins" wife turned 45 a few years back, had a midlife crisis, and cheated on me. I was 100% moving forward with divorce but now am not. I spent all that in-house separation limbo time doing two things. Planning my life post-D and analyzing every little part of our lives that lead up to this.

My wife, to me, was the greatest person I've ever known. Sweet, smart, honest, hard-working, perfect mother, perfect wife. I had a much lower opinion of myself. I'm a guy. We suck.

We men tend to think that you ladies are much better people than we are. You're the mothers of humanity, we're the soldiers that kill each other in war.

With us believing that you're better people I think we set expectations too high for you. I think that's one thing I had done to my wife that wasn't fair. I think it put a lot of pressure on her to live up to the "Mary Poppins" image of being practically perfect in every way. I think I set a standard for her, completely unintentionally, that was too hard for her to live up to for an entire lifetime. She made it about 26 years living up to it. I'm not saying that it's my fault she cheated but I do take responsibility for my contributions to her emotional/moral meltdown. I think this expectation of her to always be the better person was a contributor to her "snap" and subsequent midlife crisis. She just couldn't do it anymore. If we had talked about it then maybe the MLC could have been averted but we didn't.

Ladies, have you experienced this? Do you ever feel pressure to be "better people" because the men in your life (spouse, father, brothers, male friends, sons, etc.) expect you to be better than them? I admit, I do. I still think that you're better people than us. I'm against women in combat. Not because I don't think you could handle it but because I don't want to see women killing people. I think you're better than that. Society does too. That's why we're more surprised when women cheat, steal, murder, etc.

Sorry to ramble but I have a lot of sh*t to work out and I think it's a good topic. What say you ladies?


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

LucasJackson said:


> We men tend to think that you ladies are much better people than we are. You're the mothers of humanity, we're the soldiers that kill each other in war.
> 
> With us believing that you're better people I think we set expectations too high for you.


Would be interested in hearing the feedback of men as well on this b/c I have never felt this way. Not saying I think ladies are lesser people either. We all have our strengths and weaknesses, so I view things from that standpoint and not what gender you are. 

Unless, maybe that is why Bruce became Caitlyn, hmmmm


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## LucasJackson (May 26, 2016)

EllisRedding said:


> Would be interested in hearing the feedback of men as well on this b/c I have never felt this way. Not saying I think ladies are lesser people either. We all have our strengths and weaknesses, so I view things from that standpoint and not what gender you are.
> 
> Unless, maybe that is why Bruce became Caitlyn, hmmmm


I didn't want to speak for all men but I'd say almost all of my friends over the years and other male family members put higher expectations on women to be better people than we are. We know we suck. We're men. When a dude cheats we don't bat an eye. Of course he cheated, men are pigs. When a woman cheats it seems it's different.

Cheating men that are public figures usually slide. Look at Slick Willy. He skated right out of his cheating episode with an 80% approval rating. Monica? She became suicidal. She was branded a wh0re, a groupie, a gold digger, etc... She is now a leading advocate against cyber bullying because she was cyber bullied like no one else. The thing is, she wasn't even married, Slick Willy was.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

LucasJackson said:


> I didn't want to speak for all men but I'd say almost all of my friends over the years and other male family members put higher expectations on women to be better people than we are. We know we suck. We're men. When a dude cheats we don't bat an eye. Of course he cheated, men are pigs. When a woman cheats it seems it's different.
> 
> *Cheating men that are public figures usually slide. Look at Slick Willy. He skated right out of his cheating episode with an 80% approval rating. Monica? * She became suicidal. She was branded a wh0re, a groupie, a gold digger, etc... She is now a leading advocate against cyber bullying because she was cyber bullied like no one else. The thing is, she wasn't even married, Slick Willy was.


The bolded I think has more to do with how women and men are treated differently in terms of sex, not that women are the better people.

I guess I just don't see this "holding women up on a pedestal" in my experience that you see (obviously nothing wrong with, just different POVs).


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Not I. All that came from my Catholic upbringing. One of the things I cherish about my husband is that despite seeing me for who I am, he loves me.

And for the record, being a mother does not in any way make me "better" or any woman. I am definitely more involved with my kids. The school and activity meetings. The discipline. The home work. The house work. The one they come to for money.  But he is the keeper of joy. Not in a hundred million years would it occur to me to encourage my daughter to lift a dumbell way to big for her in a clean and press. Yet the pride she felt! Never in a million years would it occur to me to suggest she paint my toenails. (And the dog's). He went to work today, in flip flops, with blue toes. I never want to take them to the swimming hole with a picnic dinner. 

I temper his silliness and let's do anything with measured need to sometimes be practical. He tempers my tendency to have a stick up my butt with silliness!


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

This is an interesting topic. 

I'm sorry about your struggles in your marriage. 
Glad things are getting better for you. 

Anyway I think my husband views me in a "you're a flower" kind of way. 
I like it & sometimes I don't because he does not take or like my opinion on certain things, he doesn't like it if I agrue strongly about political things or things like that. 
I don't talk about those kinds of things anymore with him, I have a wide variety of friends for that now. 

Since he is a police officer I'm sure he's seen plenty of people misbehaving but all seems to grumble more about women misbehaving. 
Sometimes I feel like I have to watch my behaviour if we are in a disagreement. 
So I feel pressured to behave in a ladylike manner (which I do anyway)
but it's more so I feel if I voice my opinion it will be trampled on or he will call me silly. 

It's OK for him to be grumpy in his mind his reasons to be grumpy are genuine. 
But if I'm slightly grumpy he's practically saying I need a doctor! 
So again I have to avoid him during these times. 

Well I hope that could be some help to you. 




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## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

I don't think that me wanting to be a better person is a result of men expecting me to be. I've never experienced that. I want to be a better person usually because I see someone else as being a better person, so I want to be that person (just the part that I view as good). Such as, I have an employee that smiles alot. I like that part of her so I try to smile more than I normally would. That's a simple example. 

It has nothing to do with gender in my experience. 

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## heartbroken50 (Aug 9, 2016)

I think there is a gender "ideal" so to speak perpetuated by society, but I do think it's improving all the time.

In my own case, I think how I was raised is much more of a factor than my husband expecting me to be a better person. My parents expected more of me as their daughter than they did of their 3 sons. I was mom-in-training and surrogate-mom for my younger brother when my parents split and mom went to work full time. In essence I was trained to be a stepford wife, but also was pushed harder than my brothers to achieve in school. I became an overachiever academically, got a full ride to an excellent school, while my older brothers struggled to pay for their college educations, and my younger brother dropped out of HS. 

For me, I think being raised that way makes me expect more of myself. My H often tells me how strong I am, but I'm not really. Often times, I long to be allowed the freedom to be weak.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

LucasJackson said:


> Ladies, have you experienced this? * Do you ever feel pressure to be "better people" because the men in your life (spouse, father, brothers, male friends, sons, etc.) expect you to be better than them?* I admit, I do. I still think that you're better people than us. I'm against women in combat. Not because I don't think you could handle it but because I don't want to see women killing people. I think you're better than that. Society does too. That's why we're more surprised when women cheat, steal, murder, etc.
> 
> Sorry to ramble but I have a lot of sh*t to work out and I think it's a good topic. What say you ladies?


The only way I have experienced this has been in the explicit and implicit message to me that "women aren't supposed to be as horny as men". Therefore, if I am as horny as a man (and as far as I have observed in my own experience, I am more horny than almost all men), then there is something wrong with me. There is something unfeminine and immoral about me if I'm that horny. There is something possibly dangerous about me too, I've gotten that message many times....and the message comes from women as much as from men.

Doesn't seem fair to me to be branded like this (but some, not saying by everyone). I can't help it, I'm just drawn that way. I did not ask to be this way, it is just how my body has always been and felt. But the message was very clear to me from very early on....do NOT express your sexual feelings, thoughts or urges, or you will freak out just about everyone around you.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Did your wife know that you expected her to be a prime example of humanity? Did you frequently express your expectations of her?


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

This thread came at the right time, wow. My bf now was a friend of mine for a couple of years. We weren't best friends, but we did things together, we met through mutual friends. He's a police officer, and down to earth southern guy, but very ''alpha'' for lack of a better word choice. He grew up in a very traditional household, as I did. When we were ''just friends''...I didn't know he had feelings for me, and then after my engagement ended, a few weeks after he asked if we could go out and see where things go. I saw a whole other side to him, but I always thought he is super good looking/fit, but my mind never went there because we were friends. Now that we are in a relationship, and in love - he seems to put me on a pedestal, sort of. So, I find myself cooking for him more, doing laundry, things I DO NOT do when dating. lol Could this be because I want to live up to this idea of me that he has - he will say sometimes ''you're so perfect, I'm so glad we're together.'' I'm far from perfect...and can be cold at times. 

So, how did this change, and does it somehow make me feel like I have to ''live up to'' this ideal he has of me? This thread has given me something to think about. 

We've talked about long term plans, and marriage - he wants to get married, and I can honestly see marrying him, too. But we are not rushing anything, just talking about it. But, he'd like for me to be a SAHM, if that were to happen - and I can see it already...I'm wearing an apron, baking cookies, joining a mom's group, and greeting him at the door every day when he gets home from work.  lol I have a feeling, this is what he would love to have. i don't want to speak for him, but that's how his mom was when he was growing up, that's how my mom was when I was growing up (and still is, she waits on my dad), so he probably thinks it will happen. The perfect wife. 0..o


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> The bolded I think has more to do with how women and men are treated differently in terms of sex, not that women are the better people.


True, the women are "better" because of their supposed attitudes about sex just means the guy has a negative view of sex and thinks there's something wrong with wanting it.


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

I don't think expecting our partner to not cheat is putting them on a pedestal or asking them to be perfect. I think that's the minimal standard.


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

*Deidre* said:


> This thread came at the right time, wow. My bf now was a friend of mine for a couple of years. We weren't best friends, but we did things together, we met through mutual friends. He's a police officer, and down to earth southern guy, but very ''alpha'' for lack of a better word choice. He grew up in a very traditional household, as I did. When we were ''just friends''...I didn't know he had feelings for me, and then after my engagement ended, a few weeks after he asked if we could go out and see where things go. I saw a whole other side to him, but I always thought he is super good looking/fit, but my mind never went there because we were friends. Now that we are in a relationship, and in love - he seems to put me on a pedestal, sort of. So, I find myself cooking for him more, doing laundry, things I DO NOT do when dating. lol Could this be because I want to live up to this idea of me that he has - he will say sometimes ''you're so perfect, I'm so glad we're together.'' I'm far from perfect...and can be cold at times.
> 
> So, how did this change, and does it somehow make me feel like I have to ''live up to'' this ideal he has of me? This thread has given me something to think about.
> 
> We've talked about long term plans, and marriage - he wants to get married, and I can honestly see marrying him, too. But we are not rushing anything, just talking about it. But, he'd like for me to be a SAHM, if that were to happen - and I can see it already...I'm wearing an apron, baking cookies, joining a mom's group, and greeting him at the door every day when he gets home from work.  lol I have a feeling, this is what he would love to have. i don't want to speak for him, but that's how his mom was when he was growing up, that's how my mom was when I was growing up (and still is, she waits on my dad), so he probably thinks it will happen. The perfect wife. 0..o




Yes
The issue however is that not one person is perfect and that pedestal comes toppling down rather quickly.

I have always felt that I've been given a high standard to live up to but no one put that thought in my head. It was/ is me who has that high standard.
I feel as though I have to be the best wife. Mother. Homemaker. Everything. 
I work 40 hours a week and then come home and spend hours trying to make things perfect so that things go smoothly for everyone.

IDK
For me I think it has a lot to do with my past. I am adopted and found that I always felt I had to prove myself worthy. 




Sent from my iPhone


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## LucasJackson (May 26, 2016)

*Deidre* said:


> This thread came at the right time, wow. My bf now was a friend of mine for a couple of years. We weren't best friends, but we did things together, we met through mutual friends. He's a police officer, and down to earth southern guy, but very ''alpha'' for lack of a better word choice. He grew up in a very traditional household, as I did. When we were ''just friends''...I didn't know he had feelings for me, and then after my engagement ended, a few weeks after he asked if we could go out and see where things go. I saw a whole other side to him, but I always thought he is super good looking/fit, but my mind never went there because we were friends. Now that we are in a relationship, and in love - he seems to put me on a pedestal, sort of. So, I find myself cooking for him more, doing laundry, things I DO NOT do when dating. lol Could this be because I want to live up to this idea of me that he has - he will say sometimes ''you're so perfect, I'm so glad we're together.'' I'm far from perfect...and can be cold at times.
> 
> So, how did this change, and does it somehow make me feel like I have to ''live up to'' this ideal he has of me? This thread has given me something to think about.
> 
> We've talked about long term plans, and marriage - he wants to get married, and I can honestly see marrying him, too. But we are not rushing anything, just talking about it. But, he'd like for me to be a SAHM, if that were to happen - and I can see it already...I'm wearing an apron, baking cookies, joining a mom's group, and greeting him at the door every day when he gets home from work.  lol I have a feeling, this is what he would love to have. i don't want to speak for him, but that's how his mom was when he was growing up, that's how my mom was when I was growing up (and still is, she waits on my dad), so he probably thinks it will happen. The perfect wife. 0..o


I've learned from my wife that sometimes compliments cause pressure. Telling someone that "they're so perfect" or in my case always lavishing compliments on her about what a wonderful person she is, becomes a lot to live up to. Who knew.

At least you can think about it and discuss it with him. Don't become a person you can't live up to. That ends bad. I know.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

@deidre

"Now that we are in a relationship, and in love -* he seems to put me on a pedestal,* sort of. So, I find myself cooking for him more, doing laundry, things I DO NOT do when dating. lol Could this be because I want to live up to this idea of me that he has - *he will say sometimes ''you're so perfect, *I'm so glad we're together.''

This can be a manipulation tactic. Be wary. See what happens when you don't coddle him or act like a 1950s wife. Stop doing his laundry.

Not saying he is trying to manipulate you. Just saying you need to find out if he is. Watch for statements that try to guilt you.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Constable Odo said to me (very early in our dating days) that "women civilize men." Honestly I've never felt pressure put on me to behave in a certain way, but Odo does naturally expect that I will be more sensitive to emotionally-swaying things or situations. He naturally expects I will have a more nurturing nature when it comes to making sure he and his DIY buddies are well fed or provided cold drinks while they work on various projects. He naturally expects that I'm going to get up early each morning for work, since this is what I always do. There's nothing really that he expects of me that I don't also expect of myself AND have demonstrated first hand through actions.

There was a time back when we were dating, that I often told him not to get carried away with the *thought* of me, but to stay grounded in the *reality* of me. I do think that men tend to see the great things in the women they care for and can sometimes forget she is a human being, just like they are.

I think that women, too, can get carried away with the idea of a man... especially what they think he *could* become. A man's potential is determined by no one but his own self. What he decides, a woman needs to learn to accept... or not accept, as the case may be.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Satya said:


> women civilize men.


I've heard that too and pretty much believe it (on a macro / civilization level) but, as a man, I'm not happy with the idea.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> @deidre
> 
> "Now that we are in a relationship, and in love -* he seems to put me on a pedestal,* sort of. So, I find myself cooking for him more, doing laundry, things I DO NOT do when dating. lol Could this be because I want to live up to this idea of me that he has - *he will say sometimes ''you're so perfect, *I'm so glad we're together.''
> 
> ...


lol Yes, I agree that looking at it objectively, it could seem this way. I'd like to think he's not a manipulator. I have never done a guy's laundry before, not even my ex fiance, so it must be love. 

I work in marketing and advertising for the past nearly 5 years, and really like my job, but when I have kids, I plan to stay home with them. The thing is, I wouldn't want to abandon my skills though, you just never know what can happen and I hesitate to rely solely on a guy financially. Idk. Then he tells me ''I want to take care of you,'' but think he means well by it.

I will heed your advice though.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

LucasJackson said:


> I've learned from my wife that sometimes compliments cause pressure. Telling someone that "they're so perfect" or in my case always lavishing compliments on her about what a wonderful person she is, becomes a lot to live up to. Who knew.
> 
> At least you can think about it and discuss it with him. Don't become a person you can't live up to. That ends bad. I know.


It's odd to me that despite the attention you paid your wife, she did what she did. I know you seem to take some of the blame, but you'd think a spouse wouldn't cheat if they felt special to their partner. 

I can only be me, and he can only be him, and since we seem to be really into each other, changing to become something else wouldn't seem right. Thanks for your advice.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Lucas, what I really think is you're looking for a way to excuse your wife's actions so reconciliation will be more palatable to you. Don't take on the yoke of blame. 

If your wife is saying she couldn't live up to your expectations as a reason for her actions, then she is bs'ing you big time.


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

@LucasJackson,

You complimented your wife because you loved her, and you wanted to build her up, but she took that as pressure to live up to a certain image. Would she have preferred that you tore her down with criticisms? I think this is you trying to justify for her cheating. What were your expectations of her? Did you expected her to be a great cook? Did you expected her to keep the house spotless? Did you expected her to be a sex goddess in bed? I think it's pretty much implied that spouses are expected not to cheat, even if they're not good or perfect in other areas.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

WS I always thought of my wife a a Mary Poppins as well

Till much later in our marriage I found out very differently

I have been with her since 17 now married 38 years

So....up until 5 years ago I always thought of her as Little Miss B

I always gave her gentle lovin... Wrong

Now sometimes I ask her Do you want the Little Miss B treatment or the genuine article ?

I might start out soft and sweet but in the end The real deal prevails.

Now I get texts at work the next morning

"Thanks for the multiples"......gives me goose bumps Nothing better than putting a twinkle in her eye to light up the neighborhood

55


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Buddy400 said:


> I've heard that too and pretty much believe it (on a macro / civilization level) but, as a man, I'm not happy with the idea.


'Women civilize men' is pretty much akin to 'training' or 'house-breaking' them. No throwing bones over your shoulder; no leaving dirty socks on the coffee table; no wiping your nose on your sleeve etc.

Yeah, it rankles men that people think their habits and manners suck. But, there are just as many women who need to be housebroken, too (just in different ways).


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## LucasJackson (May 26, 2016)

*Deidre* said:


> It's odd to me that despite the attention you paid your wife, she did what she did. I know you seem to take some of the blame, but you'd think a spouse wouldn't cheat if they felt special to their partner.
> 
> I can only be me, and he can only be him, and since we seem to be really into each other, changing to become something else wouldn't seem right. Thanks for your advice.


We've talked a lot about it and she assures me that it was nothing I did. She assures me that she was screwed up and freaking out over some regrets she was having about life. She said before cheating she thought about just leaving us. It's hard stuff to hear but I don't think we could work on healing if I didn't hear it. She regrets getting married at 19. Now she says nobody should get married before 30. You lose yourself. You become half of a couple and then mom or dad and you don't get to figure out who you were even going to be. She got panicked over not ever finding out who she is because we were going to be married for life.

Of course now with therapy she knows what a load of hooey all that is. I never forced her into any role. She could do whatever she wanted. She panicked over regrets and screwed her life up. It happens. We're dealing with it.

A wrinkle that I think we're going to have to deal with is that I had 99% detached. I could still walk tomorrow and think nothing of it. I had fully mentally prepared to be on my own and I was looking forward to it. I was going to do my road trip all over the country on my motorcycle. I was going to meet women and have whirlwind romances along the way. I was going to sell the house and rent a townhouse. I hate being a homeowner. Being the "man" of the house I'm the one that takes care of all home maintenance/issues. Truth be told, I hate the sh*t and always have.

I had all these plans and was excited about my future for the first time in many years and although I'm happy that we're going to see if we can stay together, we'll have to deal with my apathy toward the relationship. She'd like me to go back to how I was 3 years ago where I was devastated and crying all the time and lamenting not having her in my life. The "how can I live without her?" days. Those days are no more. I can live by myself just fine. Still, I won't sabotage the R. I'll give it my all and see where it goes.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

LucasJackson said:


> We've talked a lot about it and she assures me that it was nothing I did. She assures me that she was screwed up and freaking out over some regrets she was having about life. She said before cheating she thought about just leaving us. It's hard stuff to hear but I don't think we could work on healing if I didn't hear it. She regrets getting married at 19. Now she says nobody should get married before 30. You lose yourself. You become half of a couple and then mom or dad and you don't get to figure out who you were even going to be. She got panicked over not ever finding out who she is because we were going to be married for life.
> 
> Of course now with therapy she knows what a load of hooey all that is. I never forced her into any role. She could do whatever she wanted. She panicked over regrets and screwed her life up. It happens. We're dealing with it.
> 
> ...


Wow, Lucas, that's really interesting, that you were looking forward to your ''singledom.'' lol Well, if it's meant to be...then, it will work out. No one can fault you for how you feel right now, honestly.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

LucasJackson said:


> If you don't know my story, my "Mary Poppins" wife turned 45 a few years back, had a midlife crisis, and cheated on me. I was 100% moving forward with divorce but now am not. I spent all that in-house separation limbo time doing two things. Planning my life post-D and analyzing every little part of our lives that lead up to this.
> 
> My wife, to me, was the greatest person I've ever known. Sweet, smart, honest, hard-working, perfect mother, perfect wife. I had a much lower opinion of myself. I'm a guy. We suck.
> 
> ...


I feel I am personally held to a much higher code of conduct that himself. He has done a lot of things that I have forgiven but I doubt if he would do the same if I was the one doing those things. I think there are many men with double standards. I see it with my friends too, double standards when it comes to cheating, lying, pulling ones weight etc.

To add, the other day we were talking about choices a friend of our made. He dumped a great girl she was fun, loving and great company but had not specific career and married a more uptight, straightlaced organiser who is successful at work but doesn't have a very friendly persona. I wondered why the friend would do that. My husband said maybe men need a more serious person to keep them ship shape. I thought this was an odd comment. What do you think?


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Lucas my man, it's like my daughter (who is still a fox at 40) said, "men who I could wrap around my finger and always let me do anything I wanted bored me to tears." She ditched a lot of guys and two husbands who pandered and worshiped the ground she walked on. (Hey, I tried to warn her about a couple of these mesmerized stooges) Even Mary Poppins will lose interest if there ain't no challenge. Keep that in mind Dawg.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I don't think there's anything wrong with being told you're wonderful despite your flaws, but to never have your flaws acknowledged and accepted by your partner would become a wedge between you, the elephant in the room. If you never feel accepted, you never feel free to simply be yourself, never free to make a mistake. Note that never being pulled up on poor behaviour is a bit like your partner not *seeing* you, and not taking you seriously.

I do see that society as a whole generally sees women in a different light to men and I feel all people feel somewhat trapped by these expectations thrust upon them because of their gender.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@LucasJackson, you make a dam good point.

But it can go both ways, men can be pushed in a similar way and can Crack up just as badly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Begin again (Jul 4, 2016)

LucasJackson said:


> If you don't know my story, my "Mary Poppins" wife turned 45 a few years back, had a midlife crisis, and cheated on me. I was 100% moving forward with divorce but now am not. I spent all that in-house separation limbo time doing two things. Planning my life post-D and analyzing every little part of our lives that lead up to this.
> 
> My wife, to me, was the greatest person I've ever known. Sweet, smart, honest, hard-working, perfect mother, perfect wife. I had a much lower opinion of myself. I'm a guy. We suck.
> 
> ...


I agree with this a lot. Let's say both the husband and wife work and raise kids. If the man does an equal share of the housework or child rearing, he's a great guy! If not, he's just typical. Now, if a woman let the man do more than 50% of the housework, well she's selfish and treats him like a doormat. 

Come to think of it, I've never heard anyone on TAM accuse a woman of being a doormat. If she makes her man dinner and waits on him and does his laundry, etc., that makes her a great wife! If a man does that, he's weak and asking for a sexless marriage. 

Now, I get why women wouldn't be attracted to a man who is too much of a "puppy dog" at her heels. But what's the male equivalent of when a woman waits on her man? What does the man do that is equally giving?

I think that's really it. Women are expected to give more. They give to their husbands, their kids, their work, they take care of their parents and each other. Eventually it does wear you down.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

LucasJackson said:


> Cheating men that are public figures usually slide. Look at Slick Willy. He skated right out of his cheating episode with an 80% approval rating. Monica? She became suicidal. She was branded a wh0re, a groupie, a gold digger, etc... She is now a leading advocate against cyber bullying because she was cyber bullied like no one else. The thing is, she wasn't even married, Slick Willy was.


People who wanted to let 'ol bill slide suck. I don't like people who won't hold men accountable for their rotten behavior. 

Most detestable are those that harp on the "rape culture" yet support bill. He *personifies* the rape culture.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

As long as the "rape culture" is not defined by women who make a play for the famous and powerful and are pissed off because they put out and later got ditched, I'm with you Larry.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> The only way I have experienced this has been in the explicit and implicit message to me that "women aren't supposed to be as horny as men". Therefore, if I am as horny as a man (and as far as I have observed in my own experience, I am more horny than almost all men), then there is something wrong with me. There is something unfeminine and immoral about me if I'm that horny. There is something possibly dangerous about me too, I've gotten that message many times....and the message comes from women as much as from men.
> 
> Doesn't seem fair to me to be branded like this (but some, not saying by everyone). I can't help it, I'm just drawn that way. I did not ask to be this way, it is just how my body has always been and felt. But the message was very clear to me from very early on....do NOT express your sexual feelings, thoughts or urges, or you will freak out just about everyone around you.


I can relate to this.


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