# Text convo about asking ex to take a monday night for me....



## one_strange_otter

Background, Crystal is my gf. She's going under at dentist Monday to have tooth pulled. She lives an hour away from me and dentist. She took a day to be with me when mine was pulled about a month ago. My divorce papers have a morality clause that keeps bf's and gf's from being at the house when I have kids past 10PM. I wanted to let gf stay at my place to recover since she's actually getting knocked out for procedure. This is what the text conversation with the ex looked like.

Me: "Can the kids stay with you Monday night? I need crystal to stay here overnight."
Her: "Why does crystal need to stay?"
Me: "She's having to go under so they can work on a tooth so she can't drive home Monday"
Her: "What time is her appointment?"
Her: " and are you taking her to doctor?"
Me: "I'm driving her to and from appointment. She's recovering at my apartment and i'll have to fill her prescriptions. I"m just asking you to take one of my nights. Why I need you to really shouldn't matter. Also please don't forget autism center info."
Her: "you are asking me for a favor and I shouldn't ask questions? Then my answer is no. I'll send that info tonight"
Me: "I just don't understand why it has to be twenty questions everytime. You shouldn't have to qualify if my reason for not having kids here because I have plans for something meets your standards for a valid reason which seems to be fairly objective depending on your mood."
Her: "It's simple....you are rude to me, then I don't have to do anything. Treat me decent if you're going to ask for a favor. I'm not going to do favors blindly without knowing why."

The autism thing is a separate subject concerning our youngest together. You see how it isn't automatically about her getting an extra night with the kids but rather about me getting a sleepover with my girlfriend (regardless of the fact she's recovering from dental surgery and it won't exactly be a fun night out or anything).

My morality clause is null and void on the occasion of engagement to a partner. my gf and I have discussed just putting the rings on so she can shove the morality clause up her butt and I don't have to ask anymore. I have no problem handling kids and my gf recovery at the same time but the clause prevents her from spending the night.

Basically every conversation with my ex has to be a long drawn out Q&A session about where, when, why and how before she'll make the ultimate judgment to take a night or weekend or whatever.


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## Hardtohandle

I'm not going back into your post to get this info..

If you were the wayward then I can get why she is breaking your shoes.. 

If you are not the wayward then it is obvious she is upset that you have moved on so well.. Its retarded when you think about it.. 

I do agree that unless you do something like this on a constant basis of asking to trade days I see no reason for her 20 questions.. But regardless even with everyone here agreeing with you, it still does not fix your problem.

I think its nice that your GF wanted to be with you when your tooth was pulled. But don't get me wrong, I think its unnecessary for a whole day of caretaking.. Plus getting my tooth pulled is NOT gonna stop me from getting laid at night to be completely honest.. But look it is very nice and it gives you some time to be alone.. Nothing wrong with some alone time..

If you are into this girl that much and the engagement thing was ALREADY on the table, then yea just do it. But if you are talking about getting engaged a year from now and talking about moving up a year.. Then I think you should hold out and not do it because of this..

But regardless you did answer all her questions so I don't know what more needed to be answered. 

I will not lie the more I hear these stories, the more I am happy I don't speak with my wife and that she has minimal to do with the kids.. It might be rough on them but its great for me.. I have them every weekend ( just about every day ) and I don't have to wait for my weekend to do something with them.. 

Unfortunately the simple reality is you have 2 choices.. Run the 20 question gambit and suck it up.. Or get engaged..

If you think you can rationalize this with your Ex, you are out of your mind.. 

You could express to her, when you DON'T NEED HER how you feel about the 20 questions and such, but that was bad timing on your part.. 

It should be look, I'm asking you for a favor with our kids.. If I abuse the favor then I can understand. But if I am not I shouldn't get grilled. I need the day for whatever reason, medical or personal it is because I need the day.. Or would you rather I lie to you and neglect our kids instead of asking you.. One day you will need help and I will reciprocate..


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## 3Xnocharm

Asking why is acceptable. Digging for details and questioning everything is not. Most of us would be more than happy to have bonus kid time, so in my eyes she isnt much of a mother to turn your child away to "punish" you.


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## PBear

She's got it right, though... You're asking for a favour, which may involve her having to adjust her plans. If you don't want to jump through her hoops, find your own solution. Your problem is not hers. 

You're also free to have your own conditions to do favours for her... 

And didn't you know your schedule when your GF set up her appointment? Why didn't she book it for a night when you would have been free to support her? 

C


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## FrustratedFL

"Why I need you to really shouldn't matter"

I believe this is the statement that set her off as would me. It was attacking so she became defensive. She may have plans. I dont think that makes her a bad mother for questioning. 

I agree that another date could have been scheduled or other arrangements for gf could have been planned.


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## SadSamIAm

one_strange_otter said:


> Background, Crystal is my gf. She's going under at dentist Monday to have tooth pulled. She lives an hour away from me and dentist. She took a day to be with me when mine was pulled about a month ago. My divorce papers have a morality clause that keeps bf's and gf's from being at the house when I have kids past 10PM. I wanted to let gf stay at my place to recover since she's actually getting knocked out for procedure. This is what the text conversation with the ex looked like.
> 
> Me: "Can the kids stay with you Monday night? I need crystal to stay here overnight."
> Her: "Why does crystal need to stay?"
> Me: "She's having to go under so they can work on a tooth so she can't drive home Monday"
> Her: "What time is her appointment?"
> Her: " and are you taking her to doctor?"
> Me: "I'm driving her to and from appointment. She's recovering at my apartment and i'll have to fill her prescriptions. I"m just asking you to take one of my nights. Why I need you to really shouldn't matter. Also please don't forget autism center info."
> Her: "you are asking me for a favor and I shouldn't ask questions? Then my answer is no. I'll send that info tonight"
> Me: "I just don't understand why it has to be twenty questions everytime. You shouldn't have to qualify if my reason for not having kids here because I have plans for something meets your standards for a valid reason which seems to be fairly objective depending on your mood."
> Her: "It's simple....you are rude to me, then I don't have to do anything. Treat me decent if you're going to ask for a favor. I'm not going to do favors blindly without knowing why."
> 
> The autism thing is a separate subject concerning our youngest together. You see how it isn't automatically about her getting an extra night with the kids but rather about me getting a sleepover with my girlfriend (regardless of the fact she's recovering from dental surgery and it won't exactly be a fun night out or anything).
> 
> My morality clause is null and void on the occasion of engagement to a partner. my gf and I have discussed just putting the rings on so she can shove the morality clause up her butt and I don't have to ask anymore. I have no problem handling kids and my gf recovery at the same time but the clause prevents her from spending the night.
> 
> Basically every conversation with my ex has to be a long drawn out Q&A session about where, when, why and how before she'll make the ultimate judgment to take a night or weekend or whatever.



This is where you went wrong, 

Me: "Can the kids stay with you Monday night? I need crystal to stay here overnight."

*This just got her back up. * You asked for her to watch the kids so that you could have a sleep over. 

You should have added more information regarding why you needed her to watch the kids. If you would have asked properly, the entire argument could have been avoided.


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## one_strange_otter

It's hard to give just one conversation and have the entire relationship judged. But that's how all the online conversations go here and I get that. I guess it's just a trigger for me when she starts with the 20 questions thing. Why? Because my gf is having oral surgery and I don't want her to have to drive home while loopy on pain pills. If I could just say that and it be then end of it then fine. You either want an extra night with the kids or you don't. Period. 

I never ask her why when she can't watch them but she feels obligated to give me a 20 minute explanation why which I usually cut her off on it and just say "I don't care why you need a night, you don't have to explain it to me." When she does that it's only because she feels guilty that she's giving up a night.


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## PBear

SadSamIAm said:


> This is where you went wrong,
> 
> Me: "Can the kids stay with you Monday night? I need crystal to stay here overnight."
> 
> *This just got her back up. * You asked for her to watch the kids so that you could have a sleep over.
> 
> You should have added more information regarding why you needed her to watch the kids. If you would have asked properly, the entire argument could have been avoided.


I agree with this. You shouldn't have given a reason. And if she pestered for "why?" the appropriate response would have been "Do you want an extra night with the kids or not?". And if she doesn't, then figure out your next plan, same as you would have had to do if she couldn't take them. 

C


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## EnjoliWoman

Agree that you probably should have not said it was for Crystal to stay. If she pushed, I think it would have come across nicer to say something like "a friend is having a medical procedure and I agreed to play nursemaid". If she continued to press, "Yes, it's Crystal - she will need to spend the night so I can monitor her medications and recovery and would appreciate the favor". 

You both sound (in writing) like you were both being a little snotty and obstinate IMO. You gave enough to annoy and then got defensive; she got nosey/pushy and defensive. Realize you were asking a favor and should be appreciative - you get more flies with honey.


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## one_strange_otter

EnjoliWoman said:


> Agree that you probably should have not said it was for Crystal to stay. If she pushed, I think it would have come across nicer to say something like "a friend is having a medical procedure and I agreed to play nursemaid". If she continued to press, "Yes, it's Crystal - she will need to spend the night so I can monitor her medications and recovery and would appreciate the favor".
> 
> You both sound (in writing) like you were both being a little snotty and obstinate IMO. You gave enough to annoy and then got defensive; she got nosey/pushy and defensive. Realize you were asking a favor and should be appreciative - you get more flies with honey.


True........but who really wants to spoon feed honey to their ex? lol


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## PBear

one_strange_otter said:


> True........but who really wants to spoon feed honey to their ex? lol


Who? The guy who wants his b1tchy ex to do him a favour, that's who... 

C


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## Bluebirdie

I agree with the no need for an explanation. You needed the night and that is all. You are not husband and wife anymore and deserve your space whether it is for you or her to have a date or just simply to have a meditation night. If the other asks why then I would answer "it's personal, do you want/need me to do the same for you one day?" ... keeping things simple. Just my 2 cents.


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## Hardtohandle

Unfortunately NOW things are just different and these are the games we need to play.. 

Trust me, up until I caught my Ex wife cheating, everything was great. At least for me.. No money issues.. No sex issues.. No fighting.. No kid issues.. 

Once she told me she was leaving for good after a 4 month Fake R.. It all fell apart.. 20 years just crashed.. Overnight she decided she needed to show her completely loyalty and allegiance to this Other man and I became a pariah.. I am more than sure if I died it would have been the best thing for them.. 

End result we all play these games now with our Ex's one way or another.. Some more then others.. 

O.S.O. I think that eventually over time if you can explain to your Ex as you mentioned here.. Look I am not asking you anything why you can't have the kids.. Just please could you cut your questions in half maybe to start when I can't.. 

Again I didn't read your past history.. But it goes both ways.. If you are the cheater then you get your balls broken because of that. And if you been cheated on you get your balls broken because they see you moved on.. Either way you are the bad guy.. 

Yet again this might get fixed in the future and over time, but for now you need to decide how you will handle this.. But trying to fight with your ex when you need her is just a losing proposition as you can see.. You will have to suck it up either way for now..


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## one_strange_otter

nobody cheated......I know it's a common theme on this forum but we truly just didn't make it work personally. Nobody was a wayward in my situation.


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## lifeistooshort

Was their animosity in your divorce? Why did you guys feel the need to put a morality clause in your agreement? Just curious.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 06Daddio08

That "morality clause" throws a nice wrench into things, don't you think? I couldn't imagine agreeing or signing anything that dictates how I run my household. That includes who I see and who I want around my kids in the present or future.

I don't know your story, so that isn't a judgement on you for agreeing to something such as that but I can see how it adds another angle to the situation. 

Letting her know it was for your girlfriend opens up a can of worms, morality clause or not. I believe that if the current physical caregiver of the children requires a babysitter, the other parent should have first rights to the offering and refusal without harassment. 

My advice is to start thinking about how you approach things with your ex and figure out exactly what you want in terms of a co-parenting relationship. Remember, you can only control yourself and trying to manipulate your exes response (this isn't an accusation, but just food for thought) will only lead further down the rabbit hole.

Talk less, explain less and in all honesty the best thing to do is to find a sitter BEFORE you talk to your ex. Let that sitter know that you're going to ask your ex first and then get back to them and in the event your ex falls through, you have someone willing to step in for you.

That is by far the best thing I ever did. So when I asked my ex (especially in times of higher conflict between us) it didn't really matter if she said yes or no. It also lessened the chances of anxiety between us and when you think about it, there's absolutely no reason for you to "go to war" with her if she asks questions or says no ... because, well, it doesn't matter as you have a sitter back up.

Don't let her know that you have one. That can come off rather passive aggressive.


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## Hopeful Cynic

She feels the need to provide you with a twenty-minute explanation to justify herself when she asks you to take the children on one of her nights. To her, it's an essential part of the exchange process to provide that justification. Therefore, she expects the same courtesy in reverse. When you only give brief answers, it frustrates her because she has to interrogate you. When she's frustrated, she's less likely to oblige you.

Whether it's right or wrong is irrelevant. It's just the way she is. You can either accept it and accommodate her need for a full explanation to get the night off that you need, or you can argue and not get the night off.

If it really bothers you, suggest to her that the morality clause be struck from your agreement. What was the point of it, to try to teach the kids that adults don't have sleepovers? Far better to teach them how mature adults handle relationships.


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## Openminded

I'm surprised a morality clause made it into your decree. It certainly doesn't in my state. My son's attorney told him when his divorce was in process that the court would strike any attempt to legislate what his ex-wife did because it wasn't any of his business. 

I see why she turned you down since she felt you were being a jerk and she saw no reason to help you. It wasn't about getting the children. It was about punishing you. Try to phrase your requests differently if you want her cooperation.


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## one_strange_otter

The morality clause was a default clause given our state and county. it's apparently something that judges like to see in there. In most cases it's just one way for each parent to still have some control over their ex's lives. The way it's explained to try and minimize one parent's "revolving door" of relationships after the divorce and how much of that the kids see. Lucky for me I was able to get it marked down from married to just engaged before you could have a partner over past 10 pm. I can't imagine waiting until your wedding day to see if your families can blend or not.

But the plot thickens and last night she showed up unannounced with a police officer so she could retrieve a pillow, blanket and adhd meds for our youngest....right after she apparently called my mother and gave her a line of BS that had her all upset. nothing happened while she was there and I actually started laughing when I opened the door and she's standing there with a cop. Just total drama bullsh*t......


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## one_strange_otter

After talking to my mom, calming her down, explaining my side of the story, she now says she'd be behind me if I went for full custody period. My ex seems to be off her meds and can't stop involving the kids in all of our discussions and it's making things hard on everyone.


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## Pluto2

Oh geez.
Did you have any idea that she was coming over to get the stuff?


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## PBear

What does your mother have to do with any of this drama? 

C


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## one_strange_otter

not a clue....she had texted me around noon (when I wasn't even home) that she was going to go over and get it which is usually fine with me since my daughter has a key. The interesting part is that he made it Friday night, Saturday night and all day sunday without needing any of it but after a lengthy argument via text (which she managed to involve our daughter and my mother in) she shows up unannounced with the city cop to get that stuff.

It was mainly just a show. some mediocre scare tactic to try and continue to exert control over my life. I texted her today that she's no longer allowed in my apartment. we go through these cycles where everything is going fine and at some point I realize the boundaries are all down and she's at my place for an hour or more on weeknights when she "just dropped by" to give someone something that could have waited until the next day.


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## one_strange_otter

PBear said:


> What does your mother have to do with any of this drama?
> 
> C


My ex continues to have a relationship with my mother. When me and the ex get into a really good argument she will call my mom, tell her exaggerated side of things, then I'll get a call from my mom. My ex loves to gaslight. The best analogy I can give you is she's that person that chases someone down the street calling them names then when that person turns around and threatens her she'll jump behind you and say "protect me! look at how mean they are being to me. I didn't do anything!"


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## Rowan

one_strange_otter said:


> My ex continues to have a relationship with my mother. When me and the ex get into a really good argument she will call my mom, tell her exaggerated side of things, then I'll get a call from my mom. My ex loves to gaslight. The best analogy I can give you is she's that person that chases someone down the street calling them names then when that person turns around and threatens her she'll jump behind you and say "protect me! look at how mean they are being to me. I didn't do anything!"


Presumably you know she's like this, and this is not a brand new behavior. I think you may just need to firm up your own boundaries. 

Insist that any communication with your ex-wife be through text or email - something in writing should you ever need it. If you need to talk to her, text or email her. If she calls you, let it go to voicemail then text or email her back. 

Next, tell your mother that you love her and respect her right to still have a relationship with your ex-wife, but ask her to not involve you in that relationship. If she still calls you about something your ex-wife said, repeat the bit about not involving you and change the subject. Your ex-wife is bringing your mother into things, your mother is stirring drama. Stop letting either of them involve you in that. 

Change the locks, if you haven't, so she can no longer come and go as she pleases. If she shows up at your home, make it just uncomfortable enough for her that she leaves quickly. In fact, you don't have to let her in at all. If she's coming over with your children when you're not home, have a conversation with your kids about not doing that. I've had to have several careful conversations with my son about how things that used to be okay when his father and I were married are just inappropriate now. If handled well, those conversations shouldn't be too traumatic for your children and can't be used against you by your ex-wife. 

Basically, stop allowing her to be so involved in your daily life. The two of you are still too enmeshed.


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## EnjoliWoman

Although 10pm is quite early I don't think it's hard to see how a family blends without adult sleepovers. 

Why the police? She didn't call you and simply ask if she could come get?


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## one_strange_otter

EnjoliWoman said:


> Although 10pm is quite early I don't think it's hard to see how a family blends without adult sleepovers.
> 
> Why the police? She didn't call you and simply ask if she could come get?


I guess the point is that things are different when everybody wakes up at a new house versus just being a guest all the time somewhere else. if that makes sense.

Why the police? IDFK......We were having an argument about this Monday night thing (which now that it's Monday it turns out I didn't need her to watch them after all. During the argument she tells me my youngest is sick and although he has no fever "he just doesn't look good and he coughs a lot. so you'll need to take him to the dr tomorrow instead of taking your girlfriend to the dentist." Being that the kids were with her at the time I informed her it's her responsibility to take him to a dr to get checked out and that she could have done so at a local clinic on sunday. she said that she would just take him the next next evening (being Monday night) at which point I said basically, if she's not willing to take him during her time then he must not really be as sick as she lets on.....and.....after school lets out the next day the kids are my responsibility anyways so I'd decide at that time if he needs a dr visit. at that point he didn't even sound like by her description that the school nurse would even send him home and those people have itchy trigger fingers when kids come up sick at school.

She didn't like that answer, informed me that she had every right to keep him if she felt she had a valid reason to and that she was going to call the police to ask if she had that right. I told her that I didn't believe the police would actively choose to not enforce a signed divorce decree when it concerns custody times. If it's my turn with the kids and you refuse to hand them over then it's considered parental kidnapping and I could have her locked up, even if it's for a brief time.

I don't want to ever take it that far. I want to have a normal "you live your life, i'll live mine and we will communicate when we have to about the kids but that's it." She just can't get over the divorce emotionally, she constantly applies "parental alienation" (look it up on wiki), she poisons my relationship with my gf by telling the kids things that are none of their business and she's in my 13 yr old daughter's ear constantly and treats her like a BFF instead of a child.


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## one_strange_otter

EnjoliWoman said:


> Although 10pm is quite early I don't think it's hard to see how a family blends without adult sleepovers.
> 
> Why the police? She didn't call you and simply ask if she could come get?


Also, I had mentioned before (buried in there somewhere) that she had texted me around noon to tell me that she was going to go over and get the stuff she needed for him that didn't get packed in his sleep over stuff for her. she just never did it. I really feel like her having a cop show up with her at that time of night was just for show to try and scare me some how. She's just completely lost control of me and how I live my life and it's driving her nuts.


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## Openminded

Your mother needs to stop interacting with her or stop involving you in those discussions. 

You wil be dealing with drama as long as your children are minors because that's what she likes.


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## 06Daddio08

Rowan said:


> Presumably you know she's like this, and this is not a brand new behavior. I think you may just need to firm up your own boundaries.
> 
> Insist that any communication with your ex-wife be through text or email - something in writing should you ever need it. If you need to talk to her, text or email her. If she calls you, let it go to voicemail then text or email her back.
> 
> Next, tell your mother that you love her and respect her right to still have a relationship with your ex-wife, but ask her to not involve you in that relationship. If she still calls you about something your ex-wife said, repeat the bit about not involving you and change the subject. Your ex-wife is bringing your mother into things, your mother is stirring drama. Stop letting either of them involve you in that.
> 
> Change the locks, if you haven't, so she can no longer come and go as she pleases. If she shows up at your home, make it just uncomfortable enough for her that she leaves quickly. In fact, you don't have to let her in at all. If she's coming over with your children when you're not home, have a conversation with your kids about not doing that. I've had to have several careful conversations with my son about how things that used to be okay when his father and I were married are just inappropriate now. If handled well, those conversations shouldn't be too traumatic for your children and can't be used against you by your ex-wife.
> 
> Basically, stop allowing her to be so involved in your daily life. The two of you are still too enmeshed.


This. To the letter.


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## Healer

Whether or not she was justified, I'm not surprised she reacted the way she did, because of how you handled it. I loathe my ex wife, but I realize I kind of have to play the game a little if I'm going to ask her for a favor. Now don't get me wrong, I don't always play the game. But things tend to work out better if I do.

You basically said "**** you, yes or no?". So she said no. No shocker there bro.


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## 'CuseGal

Wow. No advice man but your ongoing relationship issues with your XW make me glad that my exH had no interest in even visitation much less custody. Yes it sucks for the kids but maybe not having him in their lives at all is probably healthier than the kind of drama I've seen other people deal with. After 5 years of not seeing him they don't even remember him anymore. Sure is better than having them pulled between us or having to deal with being used in the ongoing battle between exes.

Your ex sounds like a real piece of work. I'd love to introduce her to mine. Sounds like they deserve each other.


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## one_strange_otter

The fun part of this little bipolar cycle of hers is that yesterday (after all the weekend arguing, showing up with cops, etc) we had to be around each other at an after school function and she was joking with me about stuff like nothing ever happened......

She's a vicious cycle.....an emotional rollercoaster that I can't get away from.....

I printed out a "Childrens Bill of Rights" that talks about things you aren't supposed to involve your kids in during a divorce (basically any discussion about the actual divorce, your feelings about the other parent, their lifestyle, etc.) I put a copy on my fridge and I'm giving the ex a copy so she knows what I'm telling the kids. I'm not hoping she looks at it and realizes she's breaking every single one of the rules.....she's never going to admit she's wrong anyways. but at least the kids will know I'm trying to be the better person.


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## TheGoodGuy

one_strange_otter said:


> I printed out a *"Childrens Bill of Rights" *that talks about things you aren't supposed to involve your kids in during a divorce (basically any discussion about the actual divorce, your feelings about the other parent, their lifestyle, etc.) I put a copy on my fridge and I'm giving the ex a copy so she knows what I'm telling the kids. I'm not hoping she looks at it and realizes she's breaking every single one of the rules.....she's never going to admit she's wrong anyways. but at least the kids will know I'm trying to be the better person.


I think this is a great list BTW. In order to not derail your thread, I'm going to start a new thread with a few thoughts around it. Thanks for the reminder.


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