# Going behind my back - feeling betrayed...



## mhb1212 (Jan 14, 2015)

My husband and I have been married for 10 years. We have three children. We were friends for several years before dating. Since we got married, he's been searching for 'what he wants to be when he grows up'. He's 47 years old. He makes less now then when we were dating, mainly because he doesn't want to do what he's qualified to do so he just does enough to get by. He's constantly talking about starting his own business. Because of his on and off again employment our credit cards have taken a hit. We had to pay for Cobra while I was pregnant. (I am self employed, and bring in income to pay for everything but mortgage). His job needs to cover mortgage and health care for us to stay above water. 

Issue: He was just fired. After 5 years, they sent him home just before Christmas. Since then he's been looking for a job to which I told him he needs short and long term goals. We as a family need to pay our mortgage and a have health insurance for the family. He is qualified to get a job to handle those things. But he sees this as his chance to have a career he would love. I need him to put his families needs above his own just for now, then WORK hard and I will support him to make a positive career change when he 1. knows what he wants to do, and 2. commits to working to get there.

Today there was a relatively large deposit into our checking account. Many thousands... when I questioned where this money came from I find out HE took a loan from his 401k to start a business with his brother. He didn't tell me because "I wouldn't understand, and would try to talk him out of it". He talks of getting a luxury vehicle as if it's a reality soon? We need to focus on getting out of debt and getting on a stable ground. He's a philosopher and a dreamer, and I'm rooted firmly on the ground. He makes it seem as though I'm a negative Nancy that doesn't support him, I think his decision making surrounding money is poor. Taking money out of the 401K is going to mess with our taxes, give us one more bill to deal with that we CAN'T AFFORD with my income. This idea popped into his head and we went for it - thinking it will work without any research or planning. 

FYI - this isn't the first time he's pulled this kind of crap. One year during open enrollment he chose the cheapest option of insurance (2 kids under 5 during that time)... AND DIDN'T TELL ME until after. The very next day my daughter got really sick and needed surgery. He was able to call and get it switched just before - but we were SO lucky that it was the VERY next day. He promised then to always discuss financial decisions with me. liar. 

I'm pissed as hell and feel betrayed. I can't even talk to him right now I'm so hurt that he would be this selfish. It's like a kid... It's better to say sorry than ask for permission. How do I make him see this just sucks to put me in this position. I want him to pay back the money now before it can be penalized unless he can CONVINCE me this is a solid decision where we've both had a chance to whey the pros and cons. 

Any advice. Sorry for the book. Therapeutic venting as well...


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

There is no room for unilateral decisions in a marriage. Especially when one spouse has a history of making bad decisions. He needs someone who he respects to hold his feet to the fire and talk some sense into him. At 47, his window of opportunity to be a successful man is narrowing. 

If he ever wants to retire, he needs to put his nose to the grindstone.


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## whatslovegottodowithit? (Jan 6, 2013)

Wow, just wow! Does this dude love his children? It's one thing to not be united with one's wife, but risking the basic needs of children?...what a creep! It sounds like you're a few steps from being homeless and he doesn't really care as evidenced by committing financial infidelity (lying to YOU). If you look all over this site, you will find many spouses (M or F) that behave differently then when they did when they wanted you to like them. You will also see that people here were well aware of someone's behavior/tendencies/compulsions/shortcomings ...etc and still marry anyway expecting something to be different. This isn't meant to be a 'shot' at you, but please stop having sex and making children with this man for now while you sort this out!!!

To speak of a 401k loan, it is NOT taxable income if he makes his payments. If it is/was a early distribution and not a loan, then look out! The IRS will tax you at your tax rate plus a 10% penalty. So, in a sense, your H booked a loan at 35%-38% (your tax rate plus 10%) to start a business without consulting with you, the other person whose money it is. Would you borrow money at 35%-38% EVER?!?!?!

Your credit card debt is going to rule your life! I'm guessing that the 401k monies was a distribution and not a loan. You need to clear that IRS debt first and fast as you don't want them in your life. Your H, if your timeline is accurate, waited until 2015 to take 401k monies so you wouldn't take the tax hit in 2014. This guy is scum, he doesn't respect you, your M, or your family!

It sounds to me that your H is compulsive and disassociates his consequences. More often than not, these types of peeps need to hit rock bottom before they have a moment of clarity. Are you religious? Can you seek counsel from your Pastor? Are you two willing to do marital counseling? Is he willing to participate in the counseling? There are some financial 'gurus' out there like Dave Ramsey, Suze Orman, and so forth that teach about debt-fighting strategies, but it won't work if he isn't on board with the plan.

What do you do, as far a consequences go, when he lies to you? Does he have any real consequences when he commits financial infidelity? He does this to you and you make him promise to never do it again. This usually works with most people who have a conscience which we aren't dealing with here. Real consequences for his actions may give that "moment of clarity" he needs. Ask him how he'd like it if he only gets to visit his children once a week and miss them growing up? You need to think of you and the children first now and act in their best interest. 

Short of a bankruptcy and financial counseling, his behavior may not change at all. Even if you do a bankruptcy and get some financial counseling, he may never change his ways. I'm not saying your M is over, but if it gets to the point where you decide that the children and you are better off without this non-contributor, you need to research the IRS Innocent Spouse Rule and provisions. It's probably worthwhile researching now so you have that knowledge. It has to do with tax forgiveness when another spouse makes taxable decisions without consulting the other. 

If he isn't willing to seek employment that helps the family, then the life he is living is still about him and not you and the kiddos. I'm sorry you are here and I hope that you get many useful replies/suggestions.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

whatslovegottodowithit? said:


> To speak of a 401k loan, it is NOT taxable income if he makes his payments. If it is/was a early distribution and not a loan, then look out! The IRS will tax you at your tax rate plus a 10% penalty. So, in a sense, your H booked a loan at 35%-38% (your tax rate plus 10%) to start a business without consulting with you, the other person whose money it is. Would you borrow money at 35%-38% EVER?!?!?!




I would insist he put the money back into the 401-K. Half of the money he withdrew technically belongs to YOU. He needs to get his priorities straight -- you and the kids and the financial well-being of your family. He needs to get a real job with meaningful income. He can start saving money from his job to use as seed money to start his own business in a few years. 

If he can't get his feet firmly planted on the ground, it's time for you to make some difficult decisions regarding the future of your marriage.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

whatslovegottodowithit? said:


> To speak of a 401k loan, it is NOT taxable income if he makes his payments. If it is/was a early distribution and not a loan, then look out! The IRS will tax you at your tax rate plus a 10% penalty. So, in a sense, your H booked a loan at 35%-38% (your tax rate plus 10%) to start a business without consulting with you, the other person whose money it is. Would you borrow money at 35%-38% EVER?!?!?!


It is almost surely a distribution. The guy was fired last month - all outstanding loans become due at termination of employment, or are converted to distributions.

Agree with the rest of what you said. This guy is a tool. His wife can cover half the bills and he should do the same. His history indicates he tries to shirk his duties. That being said, this guy has been at the job for five years, so I'd like to hear the circumstances of his termination.

Also, if this guy could not bother to find out the smart way to fund a business with retirement funds, it is unlikely he is going to run a successful business.


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## mhb1212 (Jan 14, 2015)

It was definitely a distribution. I also did some digging to see he put about $5000 on the credit card. The company he was fired from he worked for 5 years. He did the bare minimum for 4 years. The last year he actually was putting in effort, but I guess it was too little too late. He definitely loves our kids (no doubt in my mind). He has apologized, several times. But has no clue that 'sorry' just isn't cutting it. He's broken something in our marriage and I don't know if it can be repaired. He isn't a bad guy, just makes stupid financial decisions. He committed the $$ while he still had a job, and has known about this since NOVEMBER. He was afraid to tell me, most likely because he knows it's a crap decision. It is more than just a crap decision, he's lost my trust and put our marriage on the line. He thinks I'm overreacting. I'm mad about the $$, of course -- but I'm more mad/scared that he didn't tell me. I'm not sure where to go from here. Do I kick him out? Do I take some time away? I don't want the kids to be affected by this if at all possible. This obviously isn't the only thing wrong in our marriage. I just don't know where to go from here. What happens next? I can yell, scream, be hurt, but short of tearing my family apart - what comes next? He is 'looking' for a job. I'm so sad that the dreams I had for us are fading... the excitement of seeing him has turned into disgust, the spark between us has turned into rage.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

call a lawyer before this guy ruins your family financially. and then if you divorce you will be liable for supporting him. find out what your rights are.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

mhb1212 said:


> He isn't a bad guy, just makes stupid financial decisions.


No, he makes SELFISH financial decisions; because he's broken inside. You cannot turn this around. You cannot fix him.

He is immature and narcissistic. His need to be a 'success' will consume your family. His refusal to work hard for an employer (he's too smart to work for other people); his dreams of living in the lap of luxury (the new luxury car that's just around the corner); his financial infidelity (lies to YOU because you don't get it, you don't believe in him, you don't recognize his 'specialness') are all symptoms of narcissism.

Please do some checking on this disorder on the internet and GET OUT. Save yourself and your kids worse financial heartache and yourself worse grief...the rage (and especially the disgust) will just GROW. Without therapy (which he will be unwilling to embrace whole-heartedly), he will NEVER change.

Best wishes to you and your children in 2015.


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