# his rejection has shattered my confidence



## UnwantedWife (Dec 5, 2011)

Well, I've been reading around on the forums for a couple of days and I guess this is actually quite a common occurance: someone new joins and their first post is a long intro to their sexual issues in the hopes of receiving some helpful advice. That said, I've already started to consider advice I've read given to other persons on the forum which might apply to myself, I'm just posting this to see if there is anything else anyone might think could apply. And I do appologize for the length.

Background:
I have been married for just shy of 4 years, we have a nearly 3 year old son and I am currently 31 weeks pregnant with a little girl.
I am a stay at home mom, and we are planning to homeschool. My husband has a sort of less common job in the military, and as such, he has never been deployed. He does work very long, hard hours, however we are blessed at he is home for dinner most every night.
Before we married, we talked everything to death to make sure we were compatible. We discussed career plans, family plans, etc.. We even discussed what sort of problems should be worked through vs. what problems are worthy of the big-D-word.
Both of us had our parents divorce when we were very young, and both of us were abandoned by our mothers' who went on to have "new families" while we were left with our abusive fathers. We both were determined to avoid bringing children into that sort of environment. We learned exactly what not to do from our childhood.
So far, so good. We have never disagreed about money, and rarely disagree on parenting issues. When we do disagree, we are usually able to talk it out and comprimise easily.

There's just the one small (ok, HUGE) problem, and thats sex. Sex is the one thing we fight about and we fight about it once every 3-4 months. Have for almost 3 years now.
In a nut shell: when we first met and married, my husband was on some work-out suppliments which increased his sex drive. And the sex was FANTASTIC! He had to stop taking those because of an injury 6 months after our wedding and since then, his libido has severely decreased. Even when he was on those pills and powders, his libido was still slightly lower than mine, but as far as frequency goes, it was a reasonable compatibility (besides that the quality was through the roof). That is no longer true.
I feel like over the course of the last 3 years I've tried alot of tactics, each at least a couple times. I tried just being patient, giving him his space, reducing the pressure on him and just letting him come to me when he wanted it. I tried seducing him with nude photos, lingerie, costumes, bondage, massages, porn, and I've even invited another woman into our bed (though she declined, point is, thats how far I have been willing to go)- basically all sorts of things ranging from traditionally romantic to somewhat kinky and taboo. I've tried crying and begging. I've tried jumping on top of him and just doing it without ever giving him a chance to say no. Pretty much everything I've tried just gets shot down one way or the other. When we do have sex, it doesn't feel nearly as intense as it used to. Neither of us has as strong of orgasms anymore. We used to fit together like a hand in glove but over the course of the last 3 years we've become distant in that way. We went from being amazing lovers at night and best friends in the day to now....we're just really awesome roommates who happen to raise kids together.

In my most recent attempt to get things to change, I let him read some of the things I've written when I was just blowing off steam to show him some insight into how his rejection makes me feel. (Almost like letting him read my diary but not quite the same.) I was shocked that it actually seemed to effect him strongly and he swore up and down that he would change his ways...That was alittle over a month ago and nothing has really changed.

I know this might sound odd but a few months ago I was wondering if maybe the sex issue was all in my head, so I started keeping a log of it. Being a hormonal pregnant woman, my hope was that after I saw the numbers staring back at me in black and white, I might realize that I was making a mountain out of a mole hill. Instead I realize how pathetic I've become, constantly serving myself up for more rejection.
In October, I tried to initate sex 14 times. Of those 14 times, he said no 10 times. He tried to initate sex 3 times, and I always said yes, even if I wasn't in the mood.
In November, I tried to initate sex 10 times. Of those 10 times, he said no 6 times. He tried to initate sex once the entire month, and of course I said yes.

Its not just the lack of frequency in which we have sex, its not just the lack of effort on his part to make the first move, its not even just the rejection that I feel when he says no. Its also the disinterest that he shows when we are together. So many times I have showered, shaved, put on something silky, come to bed, begged him to let me suck on his member, and what do I get in return? He hasn't showered, hasn't shaved, shows up wearing holey old underwear, treats me like he'd treat his left hand, and then leaves to go watch tv or play video games the moment its over. When he does foreplay, its what turns him on, not me or us, but him and him alone. All issues we've discussed, all things he's promised to change, all things that remain the same.

I never really thought too much about it because I thought it was all just within him, like sex just didn't interest him...but then I found out that I'm pretty much the only woman in his life who he doesn't compliment. He left his facebook page open and I know I shouldn't have but something felt off, I felt like he was hiding something so I snooped. I found emails to his female co-workers complimenting them on their appearances, even telling women who were out of town that he missed them. (Sidenote: after I found those emails I went directly to the doctor and had myself screened for STDs, the tests all came back clean.) I worked so hard after our son was born to not only loose the baby weight but also to get down to a size smaller than I was when we first got married. And its not like I let myself go even when I was pregnant, I am all about eating healthy and doing prenatal exercise. He never once complimented me for my efforts the way he does these female coworkers. I wear nice fitted jeans and tight t-shirts around the house, I shave and do my make-up nearly everyday but again he never says a word. When I talk to him about it, he seems to think that these other women spend their entire weekends walking around in little black dresses and high heels because thats what he sees in their facebook photos. I don't currently own any "clubbing" clothes because when we married, he made it clear that he didn't enjoy going to the type of places in which those clothes would be appropriate. I got rid of my little black dresses because he didn't seem to want me to wear them and he def didn't want to take me anywhere they'd be needed so what would be the point of keeping them?

Now, I'm not sure if he will just never see me as being sexy because to him I'm just the mother of his kids, and moms aren't hot. Or if the reason he doesn't see me as being sexy is because I don't dress up enough for him...its not for lack of trying, but he's never responded to any of the lingerie or skimpy date night clothes I've worn so...I'm at a loss. I'm depressed and I've just about given up.
Besides that, its not like he's given me anything nice to look at. He's gained so much weight that the Army has put him on weight control twice now. And when he's not at work, he wears stained, thread-bare t-shirts and basketball shorts with holes in them. He's only bought new underwear once since we've been married and they were a far cry from sexy. I've tried to buy him clothes but he always complains about what I buy so I stopped.

So I decided to try something completely opposite of what I was doing before: sweatpants strike. I never used to wear raggy clothing but he complained about the things I did wear so I thought I'd show him how ridiculous it was by wearing what he wears around the house (and even around town). For the past 3 days, when I'm at home I wear nothing but my husband's clothes. His 10+ year old shirts which are fadded and have holes, his basketball shorts which he wears everywhere dispite how sloppy they make him look. I thought it would be a real shocker for him to see me like this but I was wrong. So far he hasn't even noticed the change. I still dress nicely to leave the house but at home, nothing but stained and faded, thread-bare clothes from his side of the closet. I'm still waiting him for him to even notice...

Last night was the very first time in our nearly 4 years together that I have ever rejected him for sex.
I never said no to him before because I was afraid that if I rejected him, he'd be too afraid of rejection to ever ask again. Also, I know what its like to be rejected and I didn't want to make him feel crumby that way.
He thinks I said no because I'm sick (which I am but thats never stopped me from having sex before). In truth I said no because I'm just too depressed to be touched in that way. His attempt to get me to be with him was too little, too late. After everything I've put myself through and the way he's reacted...I just have no interest in sex with him anymore. (To be clear, I have no interest in sex with ANYONE anymore- I'm not looking to cheat- however I still enjoy my vibrator. My libido is still high when I'm alone but when I'm with him, I just think of all the times he's made me cry, all the times he's made other women smile while I was crying, and I don't want him to touch me.)

I might have felt guilty about saying no to him last night if he was understanding or if he acted like his feelings were hurt but he didn't. Instead he acted angry, like a spoilt child being told no for the first time. Nothing about his behavior made me feel sorry for him, and in a way, I actually enjoyed giving him a taste of his own medicine. I wanted to say (but didn't actually say) "now you know how you've made me feel a dozen times a month for the last 3 years. Sucks, doesn't it?"

So....any thoughts?


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Hi Unwanted ~

Has your husband ever been evaluated for depression?

There are lots of reasons, in both men and woman, for lack or loss of libido - physical, emotional, and relational.

If you've been reading the forum for a while, you may have already seen this article as I attach it for the list of items you can start to evaluate to see if they apply to your husband:

Solutions for Low Libido in Men

Is your husband willing to acknowledge that this is an issue? Is he willing to work on it with you? Have you considered marriage counseling, or even individual counseling for you if he refuses? Was he like this with your first child? In between the children? Just wondering if he is one of those kind of guys who have problems seeing their wives as sexual when they become moms. If so, he would likely need individual counseling to work through that.

You may also want to consider that you are the 'hotter' partner in your relationship and he is the 'cooler' partner. A cooler partner will often feel very put off, and smothered even, if their hotter partner continues to 'put on the heat'. By you taking steps to 'cool down', it may force him to 'warm up' to re-establish the equilibrium in your relationship.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/21278-thermostat-ultimate-barometer-your-r.html

Best wishes.


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## UnwantedWife (Dec 5, 2011)

Enchantment-
Thank you for your reply.
My husband has admitted to occassionally being depressed. He says that his depression is rooted in his unfulfilling work life and that it makes his depression worsen when he thinks that I am unhappy (which even though I'm generally a happy person, he apparently thinks I'm constantly unhappy). He refuses to seek individual counseling regarding depression so we've been working on it as best we can at home, and he has twice now been on medications to try and help him stablilize. He is much happier and more emotionally stable now than he was at this point last year, however that does not seem to have effected his libido at all. Even when he is in an "up mood" for a few months, he still has no interest in sex.
I also thought maybe his long, hard work hours might be effecting his libido but even when we take our yearly family vacation for a few weeks away from work, and also when he gets long holiday weekends off work, he still has no interest in sex.

He does acknowledge that there is an issue.
He says he is open to marriage counseling though as much as we talk about it, we've never actually gone. His words and his tone of voice say two different things when the subject of marriage counseling comes up and I don't like seeing him upset so I generally try not to push the issue.

As far as pregnancy goes- pregnancy has never seemed to effect our sex life. I mean, there is a basketball between us so positions change but during both pregnancies we have sex the same frequency and in the same manners while pregnant as we did while not pregnant. The *only* thing that changes while pregnant is we don't do choking, but that isn't something we did on a regular basis anyway (just every once in a blue moon) so its not really that much of a change.

My big fear is that maybe being a mom is the reason that he doesn't find himself attracted to me. He always wanted kids and we lead the lifestyle that he dreamed of: very traditional, strong family values. I cook and clean and raise the children. He helps out alot more than most men do but still, those are my jobs and thats the way we like it...but what if this lifestyle we've choosen is the reason he doesn't see me as being sexy anymore? And he refuses individual counseling so there really isn't any way to fix it?

I have been reading your links on other posted threads and I agree that I am most likely the hotter partner. Which is part of the reason I finally got up the nerve to turn him down for sex last night. Under normal circumstances I would have faked like I was into it to make him happy but after reading about "lowering the temperature in the relationship" I wondered if maybe that might help my husband and I.


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## monkeyface (Dec 2, 2011)

Aw  I'm sorry you feel like that. I'm glad you gave him a taste of his own medicine, but if he thinks its just because you're sick then he's not really getting the point. That thing you didn't say when he got angry last night ("that's how I've felt a dozen times last month") kind of needs to be said IMO. 

I'd also be a little concerned about his comments to the other women on facebook...not good. If his attention is shifting elsewhere leaving you feeling rejected and unwanted then it needs to be addressed or investigated more. 

I really commend you for everything you've tried to rekindle the passion in your marriage but until he wants to be an active participant, I'm afraid your efforts are being wasted. I'm glad the threesome never happened, from everything I've read it is a marriage killer.

I wonder if there is an underlying issue that you guys haven't addressed? Or possibly he has some resentment towards you about something? Resentment kills sex drive. If it's just that you're a mom now, then he needs to realize that someday those girls that he talks to on facebook will probably be moms too (if they aren't already) and he should be thankful that you've chosen to take good care of yourself and be a hot mom!


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## UnwantedWife (Dec 5, 2011)

Thank you, monkeyface.

Most of the female coworkers my husband compliments are already mothers. In fact one of them has a daughter just a few months younger than our son, they used to playdate together all the time. They are even welcome in our home for our son's upcoming birthday (though I will admit difficulty maintaining face with that woman in my house, I don't believe the children should be punished for the acts of the adults).
The difference between myself and those other moms is that I'm a stay at home mom, so he sees me in the mom-role everyday. They are working moms who often (sometimes 2-3 weekends a month) get a babysitter and go bar hopping after the kids' bedtimes, so my husband rarely sees them as moms. He sees them as female co-workers every weekday, and he sees them as fun party women in the pictures that they post of themselves on facebook over the weekends, but unless we get the kids together for a playdate or have a big office family picnic, he doesn't generally see these women in their motherly roles.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

UnwantedWife said:


> Thank you, monkeyface.
> 
> Most of the female coworkers my husband compliments are already mothers. In fact one of them has a daughter just a few months younger than our son, they used to playdate together all the time. They are even welcome in our home for our son's upcoming birthday (though I will admit difficulty maintaining face with that woman in my house, I don't believe the children should be punished for the acts of the adults).
> The difference between myself and those other moms is that I'm a stay at home mom, so he sees me in the mom-role everyday. They are working moms who often (sometimes 2-3 weekends a month) get a babysitter and go bar hopping after the kids' bedtimes, so my husband rarely sees them as moms. He sees them as female co-workers every weekday, and he sees them as fun party women in the pictures that they post of themselves on facebook over the weekends, but unless we get the kids together for a playdate or have a big office family picnic, he doesn't generally see these women in their motherly roles.


Just to clarify - he isn't going out barhopping with these co-workers, right?

Have you ever simply sat him down and told him how unhappy you are with things? Asked him straight out why he doesn't seem to care about sex?


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## UnwantedWife (Dec 5, 2011)

No, no.
My husband hates bar hopping. Its the whole reason I got rid of and never bought any more skimpy dresses- he doesn't enjoy that sort of activity so there's no point in having the attire for it. It would be like owning a baseball uniform but never playing baseball. No point, just takes up space in the closet.

No, every night after work, he comes home, he spends 30 minutes alone unwinding in his game room then he plays with our son while I make dinner. We have a family dinner, talk about our days, then he usually is the one to give our son a bath and put him to bed. After kiddo's bed time we usually watch tv together or hang out and talk about random issues (movie plots, politics, whatever) or we agree that we both have stuff to do and we go our separate ways for the evening. We used to play alot of board games but not anymore.

On the weekends, its very family oriented but balanced.
Saturday he sleeps in while I do morning shift with the kid, Sunday I sleep in while he does morning shift with the kid. Saturday we usually go somewhere as a family (rock climbing, the children's museum, fun stuff like that), Sunday I take the kid out for a few hours and run errands or meet up with friends while my husband has 3-5 hours by himself to unwind, play video games, watch movies, take a nap or whatever.

I can count on one hand the number of times in the past year that my husband has gone out with co-workers to a resturant or bar afterwork, and each time was a mandatory "goodbye" meeting.

The only thing is that....because of my husband's career, his schedule is kind of screwy. There is 3 hours a day that he spends at the base gym working out or in between work outs (he has to work out that much because he's on weight control). He could very easily lie to me, take the day off from work and be with another woman.
Heck, I've actually known people at this base who have had affairs in their cars in the parking lot of their offices, while on their "break"

And yes, nice777guy, I have directly sat him down and asked him flat out, "why don't you want sex with me?" his answer is always a sort of brush off, almost like talking to a politician who answers a question without actually answering it. Usually his "answers" have some aire of, "I can understand why you feel that way and I agree there is a problem. I've been tired from work and that shouldn't effect you but I've let it effect you and thats a problem so we will work on it and this is what we are going to do from now on..." but then nothing changes OR he doesn't answer, he just gets angry and defensive and starts a fight to avoid answering


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

So - do you suspect an affair? Does he spend a lot of time texting, or his computer or phone? Any red flags, other than a lack of interest?

And what about the depression idea?


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## UnwantedWife (Dec 5, 2011)

I'm not sure about an affair.
Honestly I have no clue either which way. No, he doesn't spend alot of time texting but thats because he doesn't have a cell phone anymore. He did have a cell phone two years ago and he didn't like me touching it, but since we moved abroad he no longer has a cell phone. I have a cell phone for emergency situations, and my cell phone number is the number that the Army uses to reach my husband on the weekends, but my husband doesn't currently have a cell phone.
As for computer use, He does his 30 minutes a day alone right when he gets home from work, and usually another hour or two later in the day after our son goes to bed. And every morning before work, he has the computer to himself for 1-2 hours while my son and I are still sleeping. We have one laptop upstairs in his "game room" which I never go in and one laptop which we keep by the couch in the main family room so I can see what he's doing over his shoulder if I'm not busy with dinner or our son. Usually just facebook game aps and football news, however sometimes I catch him quickly closing out a tab, he claims its nothing.
Two years ago he used to leave his facebook wide open because he wanted me to help him with his game aps while he was at work, but then he stopped doing that. He also opened up a few fake facebook accounts which I've never had access to. He says that these accounts are purely so that he can send himself stuff in the game aps.
When I snooped, I didn't have enough time to go through and read as much as I wanted to read. I should have kept my mouth shut about what I found but I made the mistake of telling him I saw his messages to other women. Since then he's been leaving his facebook open alot more, HOWEVER he went back and deleted a bunch of old messages that I never had the chance to read. Facebook keeps changing how the messaging system works, however with the current system, if those people ever message him again, and I happen to be on his account at the time, I'd be able to see all of his past correspondences...but then he'd see that he didn't get a notification for the message so he'd know that I read it. And it would be very easy for him to recieve a new message from them, respond and delete before I saw it.

The biggest red flag is just the way that he interacts with women (and the way that women interact with him) when they don't think I'm there or don't think I'm paying attention. For example, we ran into one of his female co-workers at the movie theatre on our date night a few months ago. He didn't bother to introduce me, and when I was distracted on the phone with our babysitter, I looked over and saw her rubbing her foot up and down my husband's leg. He claims she was just kicking him and running off. Either way, its a level of physical contact that I know he would have a serious problem with if I did it to another man, yet in his mind, it was completely appropriate because "she's in the army, she's just another soldier, I don't see her as a woman" - its the same excuse he gave me for the complimentary emails I found. He says that they were taken out of context and that he also compliments fellow male soldiers on their appearances, though he only compliments them face-to-face at the gym, and not over email.

As for the depression, like I said, he admits to having a mild depression which he says is rooted in his unfulfilling work life and made worse by how unhappy he thinks I am. He refuses counseling though he has tried two different medications, neither really helped. We have made some slight changes at home and according to him (and as far as I can tell by his general moods/attitudes about life) he is much happier this year than he was last year, though I still think there is some lingering mild depression which has not yet been sort out.


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## toolate (Sep 22, 2009)

Im sorry, Im not a very traditional type woman, but having alternate FB accounts with messages to or from other women is unacceptable.

If you try to have him close them bc there is NO reason for him to have them when he has a main account, none, he will probably think you are trying to control him. As it stands now, he has them, he knows you know he has them and you have gone on with life as usual... thereby nonverbally communicating its ok to continue those accounts.

Research FB or ask around (I dont know the answers) to see if there is any reason you need to have more than one account to send yourself game apps as he has said. I cant think of any, but I dont go on FB like that... play any apps etc. I usually post about sports.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

toolate said:


> Im sorry, Im not a very traditional type woman, but having alternate FB accounts with messages to or from other women is unacceptable.
> 
> If you try to have him close them bc there is NO reason for him to have them when he has a main account, none, he will probably think you are trying to control him. As it stands now, he has them, he knows you know he has them and you have gone on with life as usual... thereby nonverbally communicating its ok to continue those accounts.
> 
> Research FB or ask around (I dont know the answers) to see if there is any reason you need to have more than one account to send yourself game apps as he has said. I cant think of any, but I dont go on FB like that... play any apps etc. I usually post about sports.


I've heard of other people doing this. Games like Mafia Wars and Farmville require you to recruit other players. Some people will make up fake IDs after they've milked their real friends for all they are worth.

But - these other accounts could also - obviously - be used for other things. Does seem like a lot of computer time when you add it all up - doesn't it?


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## UnwantedWife (Dec 5, 2011)

The games usually require you to have x-number of "neighbors" (aka fellow facebook friends who play the game) to send you "gifts" or to reach some new level in the game. He creates these fake accounts so that he won't have to add a bunch of people he doesn't know/doesn't like just to advance in the game. Its actually quite common among those who play alot of facebook applications. I know of at least a dozen men off the top of my head who all do it. But those men's wives haven't (to my knowledge) found flirty emails back-and-forth with female co-workers on their main facebook. (I've never seen any of his fake accounts so I have no way of knowing if he's being 100% truthful or if there are similar messages on those accounts as the messages I found on his main/real account.)


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

UnwantedWife said:


> The biggest red flag is just the way that he interacts with women (and the way that women interact with him) when they don't think I'm there or don't think I'm paying attention. For example, we ran into one of his female co-workers at the movie theatre on our date night a few months ago. He didn't bother to introduce me, and when I was distracted on the phone with our babysitter, I looked over and saw her rubbing her foot up and down my husband's leg. He claims she was just kicking him and running off.


Wow! I think that you may have to do some clandestine snooping to get to the bottom of this. To me, this would not be acceptable behaviour at all and is highly suspicious.

Alas, I'm not well versed in what exactly to do in the snoop category, but there are some here who have travelled a similar road and can give you some ideas as to what you can do - e.g., installing keyloggers, VARs, etc.

In the meantime, maybe you should see about making that marriage counseling appointment and see whether he will keep to it.

Best wishes.


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## monkeyface (Dec 2, 2011)

I think there are too many red flags. From the facebook stuff (comments to women, the fake accounts, closing tabs quickly...), the rubbing of the leg by the co-worker (Umm MAJOR red flag!) all combined with hours and hours of time alone with the computer really sound like he's shifted his attention elsewhere. Hope I'm wrong.


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## UnwantedWife (Dec 5, 2011)

Whenever I suggest the possibilty that he might possibly be having an affair (or even want an affair) he insists that its impossible because 1- he doesn't want an affair and 2- even if he did want an affair, it wouldn't matter because he doesn't have the time for one. He says that all he ever does is work and take care of me and our son. The whole reason we started all the alone time is because he was becoming a shell of his former self, very depressed last year. Since we've given him the alone time (which he claims is being used to play video games and nothing else) his mood as improved and he is no longer as depressed as he once was, though the sex situation has remained the same.

I don't want to mislead anyone on here or make myself out to be some saintly wife who does everything to make her husband happy. There were 2 weeks of discretion on my part last year. A man who flirted with me online. Met on a hobby forum, happened to have joined the same facebook fan page, he started messaging me about my pictures and how good I looked. I didn't like him at all, I wasn't attracted to him at all, I had no emotional attachment to him at all, but I messaged him back and I encouraged him to continue to compliment my appearances. We messaged daily for almost two weeks before I realized the weight of what I was doing and blocked him from being able to contact me. At the time, it had been two years since any man (including my husband) took notice of my body so even though I didn't want this other guy and didn't want an affair, the words felt so good to hear. My husband considers it cheating and he was livid when he found out that I had not just accepted but also encouraged compliments from another man. My husband however didn't allow himself to fully work through the anger because we found out we were pregnant a couple weeks after I ended all communications with the other guy, he said he didn't want to upset me during pregnancy.
That said, the compliments that my husband gives to his female co-workers are the exact same compliments that this other guy used to message to me. My husband says he has given such compliments to co-workers since before we married and has done so throughout our marriage because its work related. They are in the Army, their physical appearance is part of their job and he's just encouraging them to keep up the good work, so he says. Since the man who complimented me had no real reason to compliment me, that means I cheated, in my husband's eyes. And I respect that and I have done everything I know to do to allow him to heal any way that he needs to.


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## NALLA80 (Oct 9, 2011)

First my heart goes to you, because I had the same problem. When I was reading your initial post, it was like reading my own diary, however, I finally found out the reason of our sexless marriage, finally my husband came out if the closet, to his credit he still will not accept that he is gay but just BI wanting to experiment his other side, though I am 98% sure that he is just gay. However like you mentioned, the hardest part for me was the emotional damage that he caused in me, there is nothing like being rejected by your own husband night after night, it totally destroyed my self esteem just for that I dont think tha I will ever forgive him. I am glad that you tried to give him a dose of his own medicine but I bet he didn't even care. I wish you the best of luck. I hope it ends well. Oh you know what I did with all the lingerie? I threw it all away, it was very liberating actually.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

One question, how exactly DO you initiate? =/


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

Many people with dysfunctional childhoods have a fear of intimacy/abandonment. This plays out in many ways, including infidelity, withholding sex and affection, problems with alcohol and drugs, etc. 

It sounds like your husband is keeping you at an emotional distance by not allowing the relationship to flourish in all areas (witholding sex, which is witholding intimacy). His inappropriate relationships with women, his lack of attention to you, and his lack of self-care are all ways to keep the relationship stalled out. He probably isn't aware that he's sabotaging his life, and I'm sure he loves you, but given his abandonment, deep down he may be deathly afraid of getting too close to you because it would be devestating for him if you left him. So instead he has one foot out the door at all times as a way of protecting himself.

He needs to see a psychologist who uses a psychodynamic, relational framework. This will get at his wounds from childhood and make him aware of his destructive patterns and help heal them. I would suggest you also find someone to help you with your traumatic childhood, as well. It can't be easy to trust when you've had the childhood you've had, so I'm sure there is some work that you can be doing to give you a stronger sense of self. Your husband is probably not intentionally doing things to hurt you, and I'm sure more than anything he wants to be closer to you, but isn't sure how to get there (or how to feel safe enough to do so). Often times, it can be easy to feel like its personal (you aren't attractive enough, good enough in some way) but that is simply NOT TRUE. What's going on is not because you lack something. It's because your husband had a sh!tty childhood and he hasn't found a way to move past it emotionally.

The sex is not the issue. It's a symptom of the issue. Fix the issue and the sex will come.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I know abandonment very well but although I could disagree with Laurae here simply out of anger hitting me rather close to home...

I have to agree with her, except for one thing... F--K SHRINKS!


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## UnwantedWife (Dec 5, 2011)

@Star- I'd love to hear more about the process you and your partner went through to get things back on track. Is there already a post where I could read about it? Or would you mind taking the time to type out abit about what you did that helped?
The same methods may not work for us, but at the very least a success story gives me some hope.

@NALLA80- I have been asked if my husband might be gay. I used to say, "hell no, I'd know" but then I hear stories like yours and I started to wonder....I still kinda doubt it, but if he is gay and just doesn't know it about himself yet then 1, that would explain alot and 2, I think I would be able to support him in coming out

@Laurae-
My husband refuses to see a counselor for individual counseling. He has stated that he is open to the idea of marriage counseling but refuses to discuss his childhood with a counselor.
I have been through 9 years of therapy during my preteen and teen years for my abuse and abandonment issues. When I was pregnant with my son, I thought perhaps that motherhood might rehash some of those old issues so I went back into therapy as a preventative "safety net" when I was in my 3rd trimester. A couple months after the baby was born, my therapist actually asked me, "so why are you still here? seems like you've transitioned ideally into your new role." And I agreed, so I stopped going.

@RandomDude-
In answer to your first question, how do I initiate, I refer you to my original post, "over the course of the last 3 years I've tried alot of tactics, each at least a couple times. I tried just being patient, giving him his space, reducing the pressure on him and just letting him come to me when he wanted it. I tried seducing him with nude photos, lingerie, costumes, bondage, massages, porn, and I've even invited another woman into our bed (though she declined, point is, thats how far I have been willing to go)- basically all sorts of things ranging from traditionally romantic to somewhat kinky and taboo. I've tried crying and begging. I've tried jumping on top of him and just doing it without ever giving him a chance to say no. Pretty much everything I've tried just gets shot down one way or the other."
Basically I have tried to initiate a number of ways over the course of the last three years. Everything from straight out asking, "do you feel like fooling around tonight?" to not saying a word but just cuddling up next to him, kissing his neck and rubbing his thigh to jumping in the shower with him to coming to bed wearing lingerie to waking him up with a blow job (he actually kicked me in the face when I did that, apparently not the way he wanted to be woken).

Also @RandomDude, I'll have to disagree with you reguarding your feelings about therapy and counseling. It really depends on who your counselor is. A crap counselor or someone who doesn't click well with you can actually make the problem worse. But a good counselor who you feel comfortable with can make all the positive difference in the world. Having experience with both, I can assure you 6 months with the right therapist is more helpful than 3 years with the wrong therapist.


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## UnwantedWife (Dec 5, 2011)

Ok, so, the situation changed the other day and this thread seemed to have died down so I started a new thread the other day to talk about how the situation had changed. Then that second thread seemed to die down. But now this thread is back up and going again...in hindsight I wish I had kept all the plot twists in one thread.
Because...now the situation has changed *again* and I don't want to start a third thread so I'm not really sure where I should post about the newest development...here, or the other thread?

I guess I'll just post here since I'm here already.

Basically (as I stated in the other thread, 'I said no when my husband came to me for sex'), after I turned him down for sex that one time, he waited three days and then again came to me requesting sex.
I really wasn't feeling it. It seemed like he was just looking for a quick release and I wasn't feeling very much desired by him so I turned him down again. For the second time in our entire marriage, I turned my husband down for sex. To me that felt so crazy to turn him down since its usually the other way around. But I decided that from now on, if he can't show me some desire then I'm not going to let him use me as a tool to masturbate with. I'm a person and I deserve to feel wanted and respected by my partner.

Well, several people in the other thread then started telling me that I should keep telling him no for an entire month to give him a taste of his own medicine. I didn't think that was the right thing to do since I'm not trying to punish him.
Another person said I should def have sex with him soon because if I didn't he might cheat on me. I also didn't think it was right to have sex of fear that he might stray.
So I was kinda lost and not sure what the next step was.

Then I got some words of encouragement from your member named *Dean* who shared his story about work-related stress and how it effected his marriage when he didn't even realize he was turning his wife down.
If you're reading, thank you again Dean for telling me to stay confident!

So yesterday I changed out of the sweat pants. I didn't bother to dress up with lingerie or anything like that, I didn't want to seem desperate. I wasn't even trying to really initiate sex, I just wanted to see what happened naturally if I opened the door to it.
I cuddled up with my husband after our son's bed time. Made small talk and...I'm not really sure how to describe it but we both sort of knew what the other wanted without saying a word. It was almost like this mutual understanding that we were going to go to bed and have sex. I didn't initiate it, he didn't initiate it, we just...did it.
And it was the best sex I've had in months. I don't think I've orgasmed so strongly in almost a year. He was everything that I needed him to be. All the passion and the desire that I haven't felt in so long, I finally felt again.

On the one hand, I'm so happy and so hopeful that this encounter means we are on the right track and that we CAN fix our sex life.
On the other hand, I'm really hoping that this wasn't a fluke. That its not one step forward and two steps back, so to speak.
I guess the only way to know is to wait and see what happens next. For now though, I'm floating on cloud nine and I think I'm going to just let myself enjoy the afterglow of last night's awesome encounter.

Thank you all for your advice and input so far. This forum has been very much helpful and enlightening.


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## UnwantedWife (Dec 5, 2011)

UnwantedWife said:


> I'm really hoping that this wasn't a fluke. That its not one step forward and two steps back, so to speak.
> I guess the only way to know is to wait and see what happens next. For now though, I'm floating on cloud nine and I think I'm going to just let myself enjoy the afterglow of last night's awesome encounter.


Well, its been about 5 days since that awesome sex session, and since then...nothing.
No sex, and very little physical affection, as well as no verbal flirting.

I was afraid that perhaps my husband might have just been acting different last week because he was horny, and that once he got what he wanted he'd go back to ignoring me until he was horny again (which with his low libido could be a few weeks), and though its only been 5 days, I think that is the case.

Two nights ago I was horny and wanting sex but as soon as I hinted that I would be receptive to any advances, he started going on and on about how he hurt his back. He's been talking about how much his back hurts ever since then. Well, actually, he's been quiet about it when our 3 year old is up but as soon as the kid's bedtime comes around, the time of day when we would finally be able to have sex, is when he starts groaning and whining about his back hurting. Perhaps he really is in pain, in which case I feel bad for him. A military career is very physically demanding and there was a period of time when we first married that rubbing icy-hot on his back was considered a necessary form of foreplay (lol). But I'm starting to think that this time he is playing up a minor ache or discomfort just to get out of sex.
I feel like the stereotypical tv husband whose wife uses "I have a headache" as her vague get out sex card everynight. We can't prove whether they are or aren't in pain so all we can do is offer them some tylenol and a back rub in the hopes that tomorrow they'll actually want to be with us in a more intimate way.

I think I'd be more inclined to believe my husband when he says that his back hurts, if he at least acted like he wanted me and/or was upset about his inability to be together right now. But like I said, very little physical contact and what contact we do have is almost plutonic in a way.
He only wants to give quick, tight lipped, barely made lip-to-lip contact kisses. He did ask to cuddle with me the other day but what he meant was he wanted me to sit on the couch and use my thigh as a pillow the same way our son does when he's tired.

Since his only excuse for not having sex was that he was in pain, I told him that I'd like to orgasm and asked him if he'd mind me using my vibrator with him next to me in bed. He encouraged me to use my vibrator to get off and even seemed happy that I suggested it. I had hoped that he would take the opportunity to maybe touch my breasts or talk dirty to me or *something* while I was masturbating next to him but he didn't. He avoided physical contact with me while I was doing it. In fact at one point I reached over and tried to put my hand on his penis, but he positioned himself on his stomach and refused to budge so I just finished quickly and left.
I know some guys like to watch their wives masturbate but that wasn't even the case. He had his eyes shut everytime I looked over.
In hindsight I realize the reason he encouraged me to masturbate was not because he thought it would be hot or because he wanted to be with me but couldn't due to his back pain- He simply encouraged me to masturbate because it was an easy way of making me shut up about being horny without him ever having to do anything sexual with me.

I *thought* he might want to come to me for sex tonight because he left me a love-note this morning (he leaves for work before we wake up and usually only leaves a love note if he's feeling horny).
But then I logged onto facebook and saw his [public] facebook back-and-forth with the woman I have caught him flirting with. Now I believe that he probably left me the note to prove a point to me or keep me from talking to him about it. Its was an innocent enough public post and no one would think twice about it unless they had read his emails to her about how good she looked and how much he missed her when she was out of town. (BTW she's been gone 6 months but she's coming back sometime this upcoming week and they work together so they'll be seeing each other quite frequently.)

Our date night is tomorrow night.
He asked my friend to babysit for us so thats been arranged... But he still hasn't picked a place to go to (we've talked about a club or bar in town but there's quite a few, and since we never go out we wouldn't know which ones were the good ones to go to so he said earlier this week he was going to ask around before deciding where to go. I'm not nagging him about it, I've barely mentioned it two times, once on Sunday and once last night. When I asked him last night if everything was figured out he said he hadn't gotten around to looking into it the way he wanted to).
He also doesn't have anything to wear. Literally, he has no appropriate clothes for that sort of setting. I am afraid that he is planning on wearing this knit black polo shirt with a hole in the collar because thats what he wears whenever he has to go out for work drinks. I mentioned to him that I saw some great shirts at a store out in town but I didn't pick any up because I didn't want to get the wrong size (he went ape **** on me last time I bought him clothes and they didn't fit him well enough).

I'm not really sure why it is that as the woman, I am expected to buy a new dress and do myself up to look hot when we go out but because he's the man its ok to be a slob? Doesn't seem fair that I'm pressured to put all this effort into how I look but then I have to spend my night with at him looking like he just rolled out of bed.


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## UnwantedWife (Dec 5, 2011)

And he just called home from work *sigh*
I hate when he calls home from work. He does it almost everyday and he expects me to wait around until he's called. He quite literally calls to plan out who is making what for dinner and ask if I need him to pick up milk on the way home...every damned day.
He used to say that he called home because hearing my voice made his day better, the dinner planning/milk picking up was just a side effect of his calling and not the sole purpose.

He makes little-to-no effort to meet my needs and I'm supposed to just sit around waiting on him to call because it makes *him* feel better when I answer the phone? I'm so sick of being used for whatever he needs (emotional/physical) and getting nothing I need in return.

Usually I fake a smile and chat with him when he calls but today I've just had enough. I asked him what he wanted and told him I didn't feel like talking. He got all butt-hurt like it was a surprise but we just talked two weeks ago about how annoying it was to be at his beck and call this way. He actually promised less than a month ago to stop calling home from work so much as it interrupts my day and messes with our son's schedule when I'm on the phone instead of doing his lessons with him, but that promise was forgotten pretty much the next day.


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## UnwantedWife (Dec 5, 2011)

Star said:


> I hate to say this but don't get too carried away or hopeful when he does show interest, as I know from experience that when this happens often it gets your hopes up that things are on the mend only to come crashing back down to earth with a big bump, it's the worst feeling ever when your HE has zero interest in sex, it's a real kick to your confidence, afterall aren't men supposed to want sex all the time? Nope! not all of them.


You'd think I would have learned that by now.
So many times these last three years I get a glimmer of hope and then its back to what it used to be. Everytime I think I've finally figured out how to fix us...I end up being disappointed. Everytime I think we're on the right path, I end up realizing that we're really just walking in circles.
Why do I even bother? Is there any hope? Am I just bashing my head against a brick wall for no reason at all?


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## UnwantedWife (Dec 5, 2011)

@ *Dean*-
I haven't "tried" that persay, but I'm noticing that these past few months I don't have the energy to fake happy anymore so that quietness, that emotional distance, that physical distance, that lack of kind gestures is happening all on its own. I wish I still had it in me to bake him some Christmas cookies or care enough to pick up a soda for him when I'm at the store- the little things I used to do because I wanted him to feel loved and cared for- I just don't have the energy to care anymore. I pack his lunch for work, I used to include a little treat and a love note every now and then...I don't anymore. I just don't see the point.
The more he rejects me the less I want to be near him and the less I care about how he feels. I used to deny myself my own feelings in an effort to just keep him happy but I'm drained. I can't do it anymore, I can't fake happy.

He thinks I'm angry at him but I'm not.
I go back and forth between being depressed and being numb but I've not felt any anger towards him.

The sick thing is...when I first start to retreat and stop trying to take care of him, stop trying to be nice to him, he responds with kindness and love, which makes me want to be loving to him again so I go back to being loving...but the moment I am loving towards him, he goes back to ignoring me. Its a vicious cycle that I can't break him of!
Its like the ONLY way he has any interest in me is if I'm treating him like crap. If I treat him good then he treats me like crap. Its impossible for us to just both be loving to one another at the same time.
I'm sure thats got something to do with his mother or one of his ex's and I do NOT deserve to be punished for how cruel they were to him but, God help us, he refuses to see a counselor about it. Swears up and down there isn't any issue within him.

We are supposed to go out on our date night tomorrow and I don't want to go.
I went through all that trouble to get the dress and some new makeup...but now I don't care, I don't want to put it on. I haven't even bothered to think about how to wear my hair and I haven't bothered to paint my nails because I honestly don't want to go anymore. A few days ago I was excited to go but after the typical way he's been acting these last few days....I changed my mind and I don't want to go. Whats the point of going? I'll get dressed up and he'll go looking like a hobo. When we get there we'll make awkward chit chat and I'll probably catch him staring at other women Of course he'll ignore the efforts I made to look nice and won't compliment me at all. Or worse, it'll be like the time we ran into his co-worker on our date night and they flirted right in front of me. Why should I put myself through that again?

You know he rarely looks at me.
Earlier this week I cut FIVE INCHES off my hair and he didn't even notice. I waited 2-almost 3-days to point it out that I had cut my hair. And when I pointed it out he said "I haven't had the chance to look at your hair"
I get not noticing little things every once in awhile but we had an entire conversation while I was brushing my hair in front of him and he didn't notice that 5 full inches were missing?
I wouldn't mind him not noticing, in fact I'd probably find it funny that he was so oblivious to the details, but I know for a fact that he notices these things about other women. I know because he has come home from work and complained to me that his female co-worker cut 2-3 inches off their hair and now they look funny. I can think of twice that he has made that exact complaint about other women cutting their hair and yet he didn't notice that I cut mine. He spends more time and attention on other women's appearances than he does mine. So even when I try to look nice, it doesn't matter because HE DOESN'T LOOK AT ME. And he certainly doesn't touch me either.

I just don't see whats the point anymore.


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## UnwantedWife (Dec 5, 2011)

We just had a huge blow out fight.
I cancelled date night so instead of wearing the dress tomorrow, I think I'll be trying to return the dress (I knew I should have left the tag on it, hope they still take it back...)
I actually had violent urges towards him during the fight. I didn't act on them and I know how stupid it is to hit someone...but I just...I just want him to hurt the way that he's hurt me and I know that he never will because he just doesn't care enough about me to be hurt by me
If I'm the only one who cares then I'm the only one who can be hurt by this whole messed up relationship....

I keep telling him straight out, flat in English what the problem is and how I feel...he keeps telling me thats not how I feel because apparently he knows my emotions better than I do. He also told me that the problem was something else which has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the actual problem. A problem we've had for three years, he keeps blaming it on an event that occured 9 months ago...how the hell could that be the cause of the problem when we've been fighting about the problem for two years before that event even happened?
And then the worst of it, he told me that my feelings were irrational and that no sane person would be upset about the situation, the only reason I'm upset is because I'm pregnant and "pregnancy makes [me] crazy" <- his words, not mine.

He said that our only problem in our marriage is that I expect too much of him. His exact words were that my expectations were "unrealistic" and because my expectations are unrealistic, that is the reason I constantly pick fights with him.
If I would just lower my expectations and be happy then he would be happy and our marriage would be fine.

In the beginning of our fight he told me that I don't meet his emotional needs and then at the end, when we were calm, he told me that it was a lie and that he actually doesn't need anything from me at all. He thinks that part of the problem is I need something from him but he doesn't need anything from me. He said he doesn't understand why I can't just fulfil my own emotional needs or be less needy, like him.


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## UnwantedWife (Dec 5, 2011)

I slept on the couch last night.
Thats never happened before. In all the time we've been married, no matter how angry or hurt both of us were, we always eventually ended up in bed together by the end of the night. But last night I just couldn't do it. I couldn't lay down next to him so I cried myself to sleep on the couch instead.
When he woke up to get ready for work, he ripped the blanket off me and all he said "I don't know why you did that" and I just stayed silent as he lead me to our bed and then left me alone. I think the only reason he was upset that I was sleeping on the couch was because I was in "his spot" where he sits on the laptop before work in the morning. I could hear him typing and whatnot through the thin walls while I was trying to fall back asleep in our bed.

Today, after I call and cancel the babysitter for tonight, I am going to call and make an appointment with a marriage counselor. I have the sinking feeling that I'll probably end up going alone even though he says he'll join me. I'm just so tired of living this way.

Edit to add:
The sitter for tonight has been cancelled.
I called and registered with the counseling office, they said they have to put all new patients on a wait list and will call back when they have an appointment available. Good news is that the wait shouldn't be too terribly long and first time appointments are usually made for Monday evenings, so my husband won't have to worry about taking off work and it should be easier for us to get a babysitter since most people don't have big Monday night plans.
My husband has called home from work about 6or7 times now (I lost count) but I refuse to answer the phone. He left a message saying he doesn't understand why I won't answer the phone...I don't understand why he thinks I would/should answer the phone....


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

I think you said your husband agreed to marriage therapy with you. Why don't you go? He might start to feel more comfortable about the idea of therapy once he starts going and the MC can convince him to get IC for himself.

You and your husband both sound like you are always on the defensive and afraid of getting hurt. You are forcing yourself on him and then getting upset when he doesn't respond. You can't FORCE someone to do what you want/need. 

I would back off and focus on getting into MC to start. This really isn't about getting sex. It is about getting your emotional needs met (which includes sex) in your marriage. Forcing the sex issue and only focusing on "getting it" won't help you get where you want to be. Slow and steady wind the race on this one.


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

UnwantedWife said:


> In the beginning of our fight he told me that I don't meet his emotional needs and then at the end, when we were calm, he told me that it was a lie and that he actually doesn't need anything from me at all. He thinks that part of the problem is I need something from him but he doesn't need anything from me. He said he doesn't understand why I can't just fulfil my own emotional needs or be less needy, like him.


This is the crux of the matter. He is afraid that no matter what he does, it will never be good enough. HE feels like he will never be good enough. He is afraid to trust you with his emotional needs. Given his background, that is not surprising. When you react to him in anger, he probably feels like he can't trust you. And I think reading your posts that you set up a dynamic where you are going to be disappointed - like coming on to your husband when it's obvious he's not in the mood. In some way, it confirms your fears that he doesn't want you or that you are not desireable.

You and your husband have the same fears and they are just being played out in different ways. You both want love, acceptance and closeness. But your husband is only close to you when you pull away...which is a sign of having problems with commitment/intimacy.


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## UnwantedWife (Dec 5, 2011)

Laurae1967 said:


> I think you said your husband agreed to marriage therapy with you. Why don't you go?


in answer to your question...


UnwantedWife said:


> Edit to add:
> The sitter for tonight has been cancelled.
> *I called and registered with the counseling office, they said they have to put all new patients on a wait list and will call back when they have an appointment available.* Good news is that the wait shouldn't be too terribly long and first time appointments are usually made for Monday evenings, so my husband won't have to worry about taking off work and it should be easier for us to get a babysitter since most people don't have big Monday night plans.


The reason its taken me so long to call the counseling office is because my husband kept saying "fine, we'll go to counseling" and then changing his mind the next day. I'm a stay at home mom so HIS income is what would pay for our counseling. I'm not comfortable taking that kind of money away from our joint account without his approval. I just now finally got him to *really* agree to counseling and not just say "yes" to shut me up but then change his mind when the time actually came.
I've been trying to get his approval for over a year but that is neither here nor there, now that we are on the wait list for the counseling office, I just have to wait for them to call back with an appointment time. I was told the wait list is rather short.





Laurae1967 said:


> This is the crux of the matter. He is afraid that no matter what he does, it will never be good enough. *HE feels like he will never be good enough.* He is afraid to trust you with his emotional needs. Given his background, that is not surprising. When you react to him in anger, he probably feels like he can't trust you. *And I think reading your posts that you set up a dynamic where you are going to be disappointed - like coming on to your husband when it's obvious he's not in the mood.* In some way, it confirms your fears that he doesn't want you or that you are not desireable.


1- We both have been honest about telling each other that we BOTH feel like we can't satisify the other person. He has told me that he feels like nothing he does is ever good enough. I have told him that I feel like nothing I do is ever good enough. We realize that this is a problem.
2- I have been guilty of self sabotage on ocassion and I can be honest about that, however your example is flawed. How can I only come to him when he is in a receptive mood if literally every night he fakes some illness, injury, or upset which would send signals that he obviously isn't in the mood?


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

Yeah, I hadn't read about you booking the therapy appointment before I wrote that. Glad you did. You both need it.

Also, I'm not judging you about going to him when he's not in the mood. It's just so obvious reading your posts that he's actively avoiding sex with you and you are actively pursuing him. This is a set up for both of you to feel bad. A MC will help you both figure out what is going on. Good luck!


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## UnwantedWife (Dec 5, 2011)

Laurae1967 said:


> Yeah, I hadn't read about you booking the therapy appointment before I wrote that. Glad you did. You both need it.
> 
> Also, I'm not judging you about going to him when he's not in the mood. It's just so obvious reading your posts that he's actively avoiding sex with you and you are actively pursuing him. This is a set up for both of you to feel bad. A MC will help you both figure out what is going on. Good luck!


Understandable to miss part of what I typed- I tend to talk too much so important points end up getting lost in a sea of words. Its a flaw that I'm struggling to fix...that and biting my nails.

Anywho, thank you for your continued suggestions and supportive words.
You are right that he does actively avoid me and I actively pursue him...its a vicious cycle which we've fallen into. These past couple months I've started to pull back for the first time because 3 years of rejection as just gotten to be too much. And when I pull back for a day or two, he responds by pursuing me, and things feel good for 12-24 hours, but once he starts pursuing me I show him even the smallest amount of affection in return and we're immediately back to him running and me chasing. Of course it doesn't take long before my feelings are hurt so I pull back again and, well, lather rinse repeat. It seems like he only wants me if I don't want him, the moment I show any sort of love or affection he runs.
I hope you are right and I hope that counseling will help.


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