# Is all the "Painful Truth" required for a successful R?



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

The counselors I have spoken with over the years have split on this issue. Some have said to tell everything and answer any question the BS has. The others have said the pain is too great and that the WS should begin R by admiting to an A, name the person, and provide any contact info for the OM/OW and spouse if married. What do you think?

I have heard a 3rd option, which is limited information at first and then provide more in later years, as my W has recently done, per my insistence.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

MAJDEATH said:


> The counselors I have spoken with over the years have split on this issue. Some have said to tell everything and answer any question the BS has. The others have said the pain is too great and that the WS should begin R by admiting to an A, name the person, and provide any contact info for the OM/OW and spouse if married. What do you think?
> 
> I have heard a 3rd option, which *is limited information at first and then provide more in later years*, as my W has recently done, per my insistence.


A professional suggesting trickle truthing? :scratchhead:


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## Somanylemons (May 2, 2015)

I think I would just want to know everything otherwise it would play on my mind.


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## SARAHMCD (Jul 2, 2014)

I don't understand why you would name them and provide contact information. I think this could be a recipe for disaster (in some cases, ending in violence). 
The except is IF it is someone the wayward spouse works with or they both know. The BS would want to ensure its over and they were no longer in contact.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

In order for there to be successful R, the Loyal Spouse has to have the information they need in order to heal, and the Disloyal Spouse has to be transparent enough to show the full, real truth enough so the two can actually know each other intimately--emotionally, mentally and spiritually.

See, not all Loyal Spouses need every little detail. It is enough for some to know that there was a breach of trust and some other info such as "it was for X number of months" and "it was with this person" and "it was physical." For them, forcing the nitty-gritty details would be harmful, personally and to the marriage. OTOH other Loyal Spouse need every little detail in order to process EVERYTHING and work through it. They need to know if the Disloyal is humble enough to share everything even if they are embarrassed. 

Likewise Disloyals had previously been operating under the HORRIFIC justification that "what the Loyal doesn't know won't hurt them" and :bsflag: BS like that. So now it is vitally important that the Disloyal demonstrate in no uncertain terms that they are willing and able to eat whatever "humble pie" is necessary to let their spouse see through to their True Self. So no more hiding, no more "protecting", no more secrecy...nothing but but sharing and openness and honesty and being SEE THROUGH for their partner to see. 

That's what was lacking (partially)--intimacy. That deep sharing with one other person: knowing and being fully known (warts and all).


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

SARAHMCD said:


> I don't understand why you would name them and provide contact information. I think this could be a recipe for disaster (in some cases, ending in violence).
> The except is IF it is someone the wayward spouse works with or they both know. The BS would want to ensure its over and they were no longer in contact.


Correct, R can't begin until the A stops, which at a minimum requires the "It's Over" letter to be sent, thus the contact info.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Maybe this threat should be more about the timing of the reveal. In my situation, I had just come back from living in daily death & destruction in a war zone, and if she had given me details (even if it was a PA or a EA) I probably would have killed the OM aND then slet lIke a baby that night. I can handle it know.

Different strokes for different folks?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

When was the last time she had contact with either of the post marriage OM? If its years and the two of you are now mutually committed to being open books towards one another, what is it now that you want from her?


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

SARAHMCD said:


> I don't understand why you would name them and provide contact information. I think this could be a recipe for disaster (in some cases, ending in violence).
> The except is IF it is someone the wayward spouse works with or they both know. The BS would want to ensure its over and they were no longer in contact.


Both her A's were coworkers in the same office.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

morituri said:


> When was the last time she had contact with either of the post marriage OM? If its years and the two of you are now mutually committed to being open books towards one another, what is it now that you want from her?


I want the whole story so I can be ever vigilant to her patterns and behaviors. Forgive and move on yes, but forget no.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

IMHO, if she had revealed everything at the time of the A's, we would have divorced and would still be fighting. Instead, by piecemeal in the facts we are going on 20 yrs of marriage and we are in a great phase. So it worked for us.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

MAJDEATH said:


> The counselors I have spoken with over the years have split on this issue. Some have said to tell everything and answer any question the BS has. The others have said the pain is too great and that the WS should begin R by admiting to an A, name the person, and provide any contact info for the OM/OW and spouse if married. What do you think?
> 
> I have heard a 3rd option, which is limited information at first and then provide more in later years, as my W has recently done, per my insistence.


The BS should drive the bus rather than be a passenger. The WS has to give everything tactfully and if the BS wants gory details then those should be answered as well. And the topic is never off of the table so if BS wants more detail later then they ask and they receive. Being transparent and then answering anything the BS asks is a sign of respect and remorse. Anything else is a sign of the WS protecting themselves rather than being remorseful.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

I appreciate all opinions but in our case I think if she would have revealed all on DDay (especially all of the sex stuff and flagrant disrespectfull behavior) that would have been a wedge that would still be there, instead of a R.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

MAJDEATH said:


> The counselors I have spoken with over the years have split on this issue. Some have said to tell everything and answer any question the BS has. The others have said the pain is too great and that the WS should begin R by admiting to an A, name the person, and provide any contact info for the OM/OW and spouse if married. What do you think?
> 
> I have heard a 3rd option, which is limited information at first and then provide more in later years, as my W has recently done, per my insistence.





MAJDEATH said:


> Maybe this threat should be more about the timing of the reveal. In my situation, I had just come back from living in daily death & destruction in a war zone, and if she had given me details (even if it was a PA or a EA) I probably would have killed the OM aND then slet lIke a baby that night. I can handle it know.
> 
> Different strokes for different folks?


MAJDEATH,

The starting point for answering your question is recognizing that the BS has the right to set the terms of reconciliation. So, assuming that the parties agree to attempt to reconcile, the BS has the right to request any information he/she feels he/she needs and the WS should do her/his best to provide it. Refusal by the WS to provide the information requested means the WS is setting the terms of reconciliation and therefore grounds for the BS to abandon the reconciliation process and seek a divorce.

Indeed, a BS would be well advised to file for divorce if the WS refuses to provide any information requested since it would, in most cases, indicate that the WS is hiding important facts (e.g., that the infidelity has not ended) or is not genuinely remorseful.

As to what information the BS should request, based on the results of hundreds of TAM/CWI threads, in most cases the BS will be better off learning as much as possible about what happened between the WS and the OW/OM. As you indicate, there are exceptions to this rule but, in most cases, the more uncertainty the BS has as to what actually happened, the more likely the reconciliation will fail (either because the WS cheats again or because the BS decides that reconciliation isn't working or is taking too long) and the longer the BS's recovery time. There are numerous threads on TAM/CWI indicating that the failure of the BS to learn enough about what happened is likely to cause the healing process to take not just years but decades and, in some cases, never to end (i.e., the BS never heals).

In addition, requiring the WS to divulge the entire truth of what happened will force him/her to confront the totality of the betrayal. This is important, both so that the BS can better judge the degree of the WS's remorse and so that the WS better understands what he/she needs to change in order to avoid cheating in the future.

The BS putting off learning the complete truth until much later risks the WS claiming (perhaps honestly and perhaps not) that he/she has forgotten what happened. Again, the result can be that the BS never learns what really happened and his/her healing is delayed if not prevented.

Happy to hear that things worked out for you.


P.S.: Just read the first post of your other thread. I misspoke. It would seem that things haven't exactly "worked out for you."


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

There is no right or wrong as to the information that you need to heal, it is all up to you. The main thing is that the WS is open and honest to all questions that you ask. Just remember, don't ask questions that you don't want the answer to. Some people want all the nitty-gritty details, while others never want anything beyond they cheated. You have the lead, go at your pace.


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## nikoled (Mar 12, 2014)

I think as a BS you have a right to know all of the details you want to know. If you want to know it all insist on hearing it all. If there are parts you don't want to know let your WS know that too. As a BS if you are going to move on I think you have a right to know what you are moving on from. I'm about 14 months post dday with my WH and I *think* I know everything. Don't get me wrong- actually know I don't. But I know enough to be able to move on. I'm no where near forgiveness, but I have accepted what has happened and we are moving forward together. I hope as he proves he is trustworthy and that he can be the great man he claims he wants to be consistently over time I may choose to forgive.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

No correct answer. Depends on the betrayed spouses needs. Just like some can get past it and others, no matter how much the wayward tries, have to divorce.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

What is important is rebuilding trust and that requires honesty. Some BS's might not want all the details, so spare them but be willing to discuss them if requested. I don't know why having to figure out exactly how much detail or what kind of limitations in the name of sparing pain there should be has to be so complicated - just communicate, provide what the BS asks and if you think they don't know something that is relevant then steer the conversation towards the truth.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

The problem for the BS is that you'll never know if you've got all the story or that its entirely accurate. That's just the nature of the beast. Rather than a "R", my advise is to get a divorce, which addresses the problem by nullifying the breached and damaged marriage . If your up to the task, start dating and remarry with a clean slate.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Maj,

For me there are a number of reasons I want the sexual details. 

1) My W should not be sharing an intimacy with OM that she does not share with me.

2) Depending on the sexual details it could be divorce or not. 

3) I prefer the truth to the two decades of omission.

My W has told me she would never tell the sexual details, at other times she has told me I would not be able to recover.

I think the sooner the details are know the sooner true recovery begins.

TAMAT


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

The necessity to be in ownership of the painful truth will be different for every person and every relationship. 

What is not different in every relationship is the necessity of ACCEPTING whatever truth is revealed. Without acceptance of it, there can be no reconciliation. (And by acceptance, I mean accepting that their partner did that and having a willingness to move on through forgiveness, or however someone finds themselves able to do that).


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

MAJDEATH said:


> I appreciate all opinions but in our case I think if she would have revealed all on DDay (especially all of the sex stuff and flagrant disrespectfull behavior) that would have been a wedge that would still be there, instead of a R.


I think that makes you the exception. Most people consider trickling it out as the WS chooses to be salt in the wound and continued disrespect and control. As soon as you think you've gotten past it then BAM there's more.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

MAJDEATH said:


> The counselors I have spoken with over the years have split on this issue. Some have said to tell everything and answer any question the BS has. The others have said the pain is too great and that the WS should begin R by admiting to an A, name the person, and provide any contact info for the OM/OW and spouse if married. What do you think?
> 
> I have heard a 3rd option, which is limited information at first and then provide more in later years, as my W has recently done, per my insistence.


I didn't want to know any details, thank you very much!

Just knowing she'd cheated was enough, to be frank.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

MAJDEATH,

While I understand and agree with your opinion that TT actually worked to help you R given your circumstances at the time....I think it is important to acknowledge that yours is sort of an exception to most BS's.

Many BS's who just had so much revealed to them after over a decade of thinking they had the full truth, would be seriously considering filing for D right now....in most cases (maybe not your for the reasons you've given) this much TT this long after D-Day is very possibly a dealbreaker....especially since your WW seemed to be considering going back to work at the exact same office.

Your situation proves there is no 'one size fits all' on these things, but I think it is important for most couples struggling to R to realize that what recently happened in your M is usually the 'kiss of death' in many R's...therefore TT'ing is something to be avoided at all costs.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

In my case I'm the pervert in the relationship so in my head I had all kinds of crazy shyt going on in my head when my old lady was screwing around.
I needed the painful truth.....now that I know what a freak she really is I have all kinds of fun with her, at the end of the day she was in self destruct mood and that unhealthy behavior had to stop. She stopped and addressed her own issues and I kept her around.

The way I see it is I didn't need the painful truth ....she did....she needed to face what she had become and stop lying to herself and with that she can stop lying to me. I mean ya I needed to know what i was forgiving and Affaircare addressed that very well. so ya, I did need the painful truth. I want to have the choice to bail or not.

And that was the cost /risk my old lady took by coming clean......true remorse by excepting the consequences no matter what.

BTW, I wasn't so lucky. I didn't get the "it was just a kiss" or some bull crap like "it just happened once" ...my old lady laid it all out with how many guys she phucked and how long and what they did.

I do believe she is a "one at a time girl" so I have that going for me...i guess...lol

The point is guys....your WS has to finally give you the choice....the betrayed has been screwed over enough! I think the wayward needs to be honest no matter the out come.

To bad this isn't always the case and this shyt eats at the betrayed in not knowing what really went on.until they just leave the crap behind and move on with a new partner...and honest partner! Especially when the wayward falls in love with the AP...I mean forget about it....that wayward is history for sure.

It sucks to hear your spouse loves another....but WTF at least they are honest and the betrayed can just let go.
Or
Does it suck your wayward doesn't love AP/AP's and just likes to phuck?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

* My educated answer to this is a straightforward "Yes!" Tell everything in excruciating detail, if necessary. The affair likely happened quickly and the confession as such should be the very same way!

I absolutely cannot believe that any reputable marriage counselor would ever suggest a WS "trickle-truthing" their BS marriage partner rather than spilling the full pot of beans!

That's just crazy!*


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## AFallenAngel (Jun 10, 2015)

MAJDEATH said:


> The counselors I have spoken with over the years have split on this issue. Some have said to tell everything and answer any question the BS has. The others have said the pain is too great and that the WS should begin R by admiting to an A, name the person, and provide any contact info for the OM/OW and spouse if married. What do you think?
> 
> I have heard a 3rd option, which is limited information at first and then provide more in later years, as my W has recently done, per my insistence.


My husband cheated on me multiple times. The therapist told him in front of me that if he wanted to start rebuilding trust that he needs to answer every question I ask because I wouldn't need to know if I wasn't asking. So I suppose it depends on what you need. If you need details or they want details then those details should be givin without having to be asked more than once.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Thundarr,

I think OP was referring to his issues/PTSD that he was dealing with from his deployments at that very time....I mean he said he was just FRESH back to the States from combat.

This is why I believe he said he would probably not been able to handle the full details at the time.

Evidently, he has overcome a lot of those issues (I'm glad, some vets like my nephew who did 3 tours with the Marines in Iraq, are still struggling).....that, and the fact that he says the past several years have been happy ones, is why he is handling it relatively OK today.

But MAJDEATH....I do think you need to put your foot down and nix any ideas she has about going back to that office to work.

That place would just be a metric sh*t tonne of triggers for you after awhile IMO...especially since she doesn't seem to have a very disgusted/negative memory about what she did there.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> By Aftercare
> In order for there to be successful R, the Loyal Spouse has to have the information they need in order to heal, and the Disloyal Spouse has to be transparent enough to show the full, real truth enough so the two can actually know each other intimately--emotionally, mentally and spiritually.
> 
> See, not all Loyal Spouses need every little detail. It is enough for some to know that there was a breach of trust and some other info such as "it was for X number of months" and "it was with this person" and "it was physical." For them, forcing the nitty-gritty details would be harmful, personally and to the marriage. OTOH other Loyal Spouse needs every little detail in order to process EVERYTHING and work through it. They need to know if the Disloyal is humble enough to share everything even if they are embarrassed.



The above is a very good post that covers a lot IMO.

Different ways work best for different people. Knowing that I was betrayed and some other information about the A was enough for me. I did not ask for the gory sexy details. To me that would only serve to torture my mind. I knew enough to make my decision and it was finally made without any hesitation and doubt. I divorced her and she was out of the house.

She came crawling back and begged for another chance. I gave her a long probation chance and it lasted for 4 years. After 4 years I was convinced that she was truly remorseful so I made her being with me more permanent and we remarried. I never asked her about the gory details and to this day do not want to know. My method was to protect me from pain as I already had all I needed to make the right moves. I know that she betrayed me and some other information and that was absolutely all I needed to know my direction and the actions to take. 

Our R has been ongoing for many years and I know I made the right decision for me about the gory details. I am sure others would want the gory details so that is why Aftercare’s post is spot on for me because she realizes that there are different ways for different people.

*Anyone that says that it must always be one way for everybody is narrow minded IMO*


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

After starting IC last week again, I think for me it is my analytical military intelligence mind that wants to know the factors/conditions that were occurring in her life at the time of the affairs (over 10 yrs ago). Not excuses, but conditions. 

For example: 
1 Loneliness/Spouse not around (but not always) 
2 Heavy and regular Alcohol consumption, someone else always buying
3 Coworker relationships
4 Toxic Friends (*THIS IS #1 FACTOR*)
5 Significant milestone birthday (ie turning 30)
6 Always had someone to watch the kid, so plenty of time
7 High sex drive and comfortable with physical appearance
8 Adoration love tank (you're beautiful, smart, talented, sexy, why would your husband leave you, I wouldn't if I was your husband, etc)
9 Elaborate, creative lying to cover activities (she once traveled a great distance to the east coast for a week, I bought it completely)

And off course I wanted to know what her male type was, so I had her describe the guys and I did a little research on my own. They had very similar personalities, general appearance, sex behaviors, etc.

So for me it was important to ask questions about the factors/conditions and to see a common pattern that was occurring, so I know what to look for if it ever begins again. I have forgiven her and ask for forgiveness of my affairs, but I won't forget.

This gives me piece of mind, but this may not work for you. I hope you can find what it takes to R with your WS.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Dyokemm said:


> Thundarr,
> But MAJDEATH....I do think you need to put your foot down and nix any ideas she has about going back to that office to work.
> 
> That place would just be a metric sh*t tonne of triggers for you after awhile IMO...especially since she doesn't seem to have a very disgusted/negative memory about what she did there.


She will not be returning to work at that office, ever. You are right, too many triggers and memories.


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## Foolish Man (Apr 16, 2015)

In my case the full truth hasn't trickled out. My WW still denies intercourse and motel sex but there is clear evidence to the contrary (she somehow thinks the gaslighting has been successful). Claims the secret bank account she set up while planning a wedding with the POSOM was for a vacation for us (I can't decide which is more ridiculous, that she thinks I would believe that or that she would actually say that). She has failed at transparency.

The reason I feel the details must be disclosed is it is the only way she could possibly establish any trustworthiness. Her continued maintenance of lies show clearly that she is still lying to avoid consequences, continuing the behavior of a cheater. Her failure at transparency shows she is still willing to hide and lie to do what she wants without accountability, again continued cheater behavior/mentality. What is sad is that she is blowing her chance at R, but that is almost certainly because she is not really into plan B. Sucks but at least I know what I am dealing with.

Don't mean to threadjack but I thought I'd share the reasons I feel complete honest answers to any questions by the BS are absolutely necessary. To echo what has been said, it is different for each person. Don't ask what you don't want to know. It is good to know the truth about some things when you ask. Also getting an understanding of what the WS is into can help one understand if things can work, or not.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

It depends on the person. Some have a need to know, while others know if they get all the nitty gritty they will never love that person again.

From your other post, you seem to be able to do without successfully. So I say in your case just know who.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

10 Physical condition: back then, she had disproportionately large breasts for her small frame, which you cannot hide and draws a lot of attention. She had breast reduction surgery the year after the affairs ended.


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## confusedinTX (May 9, 2008)

So when I caught my husband in something he denied actually sleeping with others and a few months later it turns out there was a lot more. He withheld that info to cover her butt not because I couldn't handle it. I think that at some point all info needs to be laid out (not in specific details unless you want it) so you can confirm that you weren't crazy when you thought something was up and also to see patterns to avoid it from happening again but moreover how can you truly move forward and work toward healthy with lies hanging around. You can't With the counselor present he had to tell me all the things he had done without detailed specifics and the counselor recommends a lie detector test be follow it up so the spouse can be sure that they were given all the information there is to receive. It sucks. Not going to lie but I know that if we are going to try to fix this thing all the lies had to come out and I needed to know everything I was dealing with to make informed decisions.


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