# How do you give less to get more?



## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

I want to get my OH to be more affectionate with me. It has been suggested that I am giving too much, making sure I meet his needs and more, and he has gotten too comfortable with the status quo and is neglecting my need for affection.

I have outlined this, VERY clearly and succinctly, said specifically what sorts of things I need from him. Currently? I would say he is spontaneously affectionate maybe 10% of the time. The rest of the time it is me, and most of those times, he turns me down. He refuses to acknowledge how often he refuses me- he honestly believes it isn't that much. The most-cited reason is that he "needs his space." Fair enough, if I were in his face a lot- but we can spend four nights a week after the kids are in bed, sat in the living room, him in the armchair, me across from him on the sofa, and not touch the whole evening. If I sidle across for a kiss, or a hug, he'll say sorry babe, I just need some space. He won't sit next to me on the sofa EVER for the same reason.

If I make it clear I'm wanting something a little more, then all of a sudden having space is the last thing on his mind!

I make an effort not to approach him at times he's said he wouldn't want to be cuddling/etc, make sure he's not in the middle of something, but even the rest of the time he doesn't seem interested. It's like he has a personal space around him to deflect my affection and I'm starting to stop bothering and feeling very resentful. 

I could kinda understand it if we weren't intimate- given the idea that he might pull back on being affectionate if he weren't happy with things, but he has said he is very happy with that side. He also said he could do without affection (I mentioned this in another post) so basically is happy with companionship and sex and nothing inbetween.

What's the deal with this? Do I pull back, go a notch down on the old emotional thermostat as I am warm and he's definitely cool! How do I pull back without appearing to be playing games?


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## woodstock (Feb 21, 2011)

Hate to suggest a game, but it might be time to restrict all the doing for him, and give him a chance to see exactly how much it is you DO for him. Sometimes a person (ok I am woman so I will say it...) a man, needs to be reminded that he needs to appreciate all those things. Men, yes I am generalizing so get over it, often get too used to us doing and just simply stop seeing it. 

It's either that or its time for frying pan to head time... HELLO! MCFLY!!!! Seriously though... the worst feeling ever is invisibility because a man is oh so comfortable.


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## loren (Sep 13, 2010)

I agree. I think you really need to use actions here and not words. Your words haven't worked so far. You really want him to think there are no real consequences to his actions? Leaving you to do everything at home, picking on you for when you don't do something perfectly, not having any empathy when you say you're tired, telling you to f--k off, turning his face away when you want to kiss, and not even sitting near you unless it's for sex...? You want him to think this is okay? You have to show him what you will tolerate. If you don't want to be a doormat you need to show him. You may think you are asserting yourself when speaking up about your problems but for some men this transmutes to nagging. It is nothing of consequence because you will always be there, aching for affection and being loving and forgiving of him despite his neglect and disrespect, so he has no real reason to give more unless you cut off his supply. It is not game playing it is self preservation. A relationship should be balanced. Give him only what he gives to you and see if this helps him get off his a$$ a bit and stop taking you for granted... Hope things improve for you.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

tobio said:


> Do I pull back, go a notch down on the old emotional thermostat as I am warm and he's definitely cool! How do I pull back without appearing to be playing games?


To pull back without playing games you have to work on your resentment. 

I backed off out of resentment initially and I tried to get him to see how wrong he was in neglecting me by trying to neglect him in return. I wanted to show him what it felt like to be treated the way he treats me. That didnt work since in the end i realized the only one that knew what was going on was me. In all my attempts to get even- to be as distant as he was- he was so clueless that I was all worked up and in a whirlwind and he was sitting on his computer completely content. I realized i was the one getting the full brunt of my resentment. This sort of backing off is simply manipulation and makes things so much worse.

After reading a couple of books about the softer, more productive, side of backing off I started to progress. I backed off to protect my heart also realizing that my H should do what was best for him- even if that meant I felt hurt. He wasnt a horrible person because I was miserable. He shouldnt change just to meet my needs. But i might have to change so my needs get met. that might include leaving him but im exploring other options before going to that extreme. That's pretty much where i have been at for a couple years. I backed off with no intention of getting him to change. I think that is the key. Let him be who he is, but think of other ways you can get your needs met.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

woodstock said:


> It's either that or its time for frying pan to head time... HELLO! MCFLY!!!! Seriously though... the worst feeling ever is invisibility because a man is oh so comfortable.


Oh yes- I have said before I feel like part of the fixtures and fittings. That I could be any woman living in the same house as him, looking after his (and my) kids, doing his laundry, seeing to his needs. He laughs and says I'm being ridiculous.



loren said:


> I agree. I think you really need to use actions here and not words. Your words haven't worked so far. You really want him to think there are no real consequences to his actions? Leaving you to do everything at home, picking on you for when you don't do something perfectly, not having any empathy when you say you're tired, telling you to f--k off, turning his face away when you want to kiss, and not even sitting near you unless it's for sex...? You want him to think this is okay? *You have to show him what you will tolerate.* If you don't want to be a doormat you need to show him. You may think you are asserting yourself when speaking up about your problems but for some men this transmutes to nagging. It is nothing of consequence because you will always be there, aching for affection and being loving and forgiving of him despite his neglect and disrespect, so he has no real reason to give more unless you cut off his supply. It is not game playing it is self preservation. A relationship should be balanced. Give him only what he gives to you and see if this helps him get off his a$$ a bit and stop taking you for granted... Hope things improve for you.


The highlighted bit- how do I SHOW him? I say it, how do I show it?



Blanca said:


> To pull back without playing games you have to work on your resentment.
> 
> I backed off out of resentment initially and I tried to get him to see how wrong he was in neglecting me by trying to neglect him in return. I wanted to show him what it felt like to be treated the way he treats me. That didnt work since in the end i realized the only one that knew what was going on was me. In all my attempts to get even- to be as distant as he was- he was so clueless that I was all worked up and in a whirlwind and he was sitting on his computer completely content. I realized i was the one getting the full brunt of my resentment. This sort of backing off is simply manipulation and makes things so much worse.


This is what I'm worried about. I'll pull back, sitting and waiting for him to respond, and he'll go about his day, totally oblivious to what's going on. Thus more resentment.

I'm interested Blanca in the second part of what you wrote. Men speak of sex as a primary need in the relationship, and I'd say for a lot of women affection is a primary need in a very similar way. So can I ask you, why would you compromise a primary need- would your husband not be livid if you denied him sex?


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

I wouldn't advocate playing games. However he sounds incredibly selfish, and I don't think you can go on living like that.

One of the best things about being in a committed relationship is the closeness you feel IMO, being able to hug them and knowing they want to put their arms around you. To take that away to me would seem quite cruel and mean.

I would write him a letter (e mail whatever) so he can read it in his own time, outlining exactly how he's making you feel, what you believe you do for him, and what you need from him. if he continues to be extremely selfish, then you have to decide if you can live like that.

Also someone who loves you will make a big effort to meet your needs as you should also do for them.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

Syrum said:


> I wouldn't advocate playing games. However he sounds incredibly selfish, and I don't think you can go on living like that.
> 
> One of the best things about being in a committed relationship is the closeness you feel IMO, being able to hug them and knowing they want to put their arms around you. To take that away to me would seem quite cruel and mean.
> 
> ...


You know, in this context he DOES come across as being incredibly selfish. What I should point out is that he says he shows his love in other ways, he's a typical "acts of service" guy. He does thoughtful things; my current favourite is he goes out and buys me ice cream when I am glued to the sofa feeding the baby in the evening. And that's without me asking or hinting or anything, he just does it because he knows I'd like it. He does the driving the majority of the time because he knows I dislike it. He'll run errands for me. I can't say he's "across the board" selfish, we just seem mismatched in our love languages mine is quality time followed by physical touch, he gives out acts of service but he is a words of affirmation for what he needs. I give out... well I am going a bit heavy on the words of affirmation at the mo as I realised I was a bit back trying to initiate HIS physical touch via me doing it for him, which didn't work.

I can't pretend that him saying he could do without it doesn't hurt me; then again I'm not him, that's not to say he's wrong to not be bothered, but it is wrong for him not to seem to want to try FOR ME.

Last night I asked if he'd finished what he was doing, he was sat across from me, he said yes, why? I said, because I want you to come over here and sit with me. I saw his hesitation (9.5 times out of 10 he refuses), he took a second and said, in a minute. Sure enough, he popped out of the room for a minute, came back in and sat with me. So a start I guess! I'll take what I can right now.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

I feel ya.

My husband is also cool and I'm warm. He tends to dismiss my needs as just another "nagging" session and doesn't really pay attention, because there ARE NO CONSEQUENCES. He knows, no matter how upset or neglected I feel (and I tell him so), that I will still come to bed, still be there in the morning, still take care of him and so there is no need for him to change - if there are issues, he says I need to change...he's perfectly happy with the status quo.

So while I am not "neglecting" him, I did back off on doing so much for him and doing more for me. I have a unique situation in that there are medical issues (post-TBI), so I have to take care of dr appt's, meds, etc., can't neglect those...but, I quit making his coffee, calling him everyday (he now calls me), don't always go to bed with him, and quit being so overprotective. I ask him once if he needs anything, if he says no, then it's done. 

While this has changed his behavior some (he calls me now, he has made dinner himself 3 times in the last week, he is initiating conversations more, and genuinely laughing (haven't heard this is a while), it's not quite where I need it to be yet, to meet my needs.

But...little steps.

So instead of pulling back in a neglectful way - just pull back on how MUCH you do for him and start doing more for yourself. He'll notice and start to reach out to you, might be slow at first - but if he loves you - he will.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

MWIL, I have read many of your posts and am awed at your patience and efforts.

I appreciate the idea of little steps, I have been easing off on how much I do for him but tbh I wonder sometimes if I'm being selfish? Like, when he gets in from work I offer him a cup of tea, he'll have been on his feet all day (literally) so to me it's just a thoughtful thing to do. Do I do that or not? Do I make his sandwiches for work or not (currently not) or is that selfish of me? I think as a SAHM I worry that not doing some of this stuff is neglecting my role IYSWIM?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

tobio said:


> MWIL, I have read many of your posts and am awed at your patience and efforts.
> 
> I appreciate the idea of little steps, I have been easing off on how much I do for him but tbh I wonder sometimes if I'm being selfish? Like, when he gets in from work I offer him a cup of tea, he'll have been on his feet all day (literally) so to me it's just a thoughtful thing to do. Do I do that or not? Do I make his sandwiches for work or not (currently not) or is that selfish of me? I think as a SAHM I worry that not doing some of this stuff is neglecting my role IYSWIM?


I would make sandwiches.

It scores points with almost any man.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

tobio said:


> So can I ask you, why would you compromise a primary need- would your husband not be livid if you denied him sex?


What you should ask yourself is what good is it doing to think you dont have to compromise that need? You're compromising it anyway, right? You're just miserable while doing it. Lets say you divorce him because you should have your needs met. Now you're single and still not getting that need met- but there's a huge difference because there's _hope_. Maybe down the road you'll meet someone that meets that need. Things will be great, for awhile, but of course you'll have other issues with them and again some other need wont be met. You'll be right back where you started. The point is, its not a matter of why should you compromise a primary need, but how are you going to handle it when you have to. How you handle it is what will really effect your happiness. 

I do deny my H sex. He's not livid because im not doing it out of resentment or to get even. Im doing it because im extremely hurt by what he's done in the past and he knows that. Im not mean about it and I actually feel bad for what he is going through since Ive been there, but i know its necessary for my healing. Ive told him all this. i actually feel empathy for him. that makes a huge difference.


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## loren (Sep 13, 2010)

tobio said:


> how do I SHOW him? I say it, how do I show it?


You say you're upset about it when he rejects you, but you keep asking for his affection, so you're currently showing him that his rejection of you does not change the status quo. 

Change the status quo. How you do this is up to you. Maybe stop asking. Maybe stop responding when he finally gets around to coming to you. Maybe stop meeting his primary (sex) needs whilst your primary (affection) needs are still shrugged off. Use his words "I need space" on him when next he tries to jump your bones. You might think you don't need it; you may actually want to be close to him in any way, and just forfiet cuddles, taking only the sexual aspect as a consolation prize, but it could actually be helpful to pull back. Think about what it means to have this person in your life that still choses not share the most basic and initmate things with you. Give him time to reflect as well. It's reductive to let fear that a man is going to lose interest or act oblivious stop you from doing what needs to be done. He is acting oblivious already. Insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting different results. You can't change him, but you can change yourself, and then the dynamic could possibly yeild different results.


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## woodstock (Feb 21, 2011)

My question would be how to remain the person who gets their knocks off by being the giver, while having the other person not lose site of that and begin to take it all for granted.... How do you keep being appreciated for it? Cuz franly, I am not truly hapy unless i am giving, and no I don't do it to get anything back, but that does not mean there can't be SOMETHING.... over time it's nice to see some return of the favor..... God that sounds bad, but I mean that honestly that it is not about doing to get back, but hurtful when you become invisible.... arg i gotta work on how to word that better


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## loren (Sep 13, 2010)

woodstock said:


> My question would be how to remain the person who gets their knocks off by being the giver, while having the other person not lose site of that and begin to take it all for granted....


How about knocking their socks off by showing that you are aware of your awesomeness, won't give it away for nothing, and won't accept the dregs of their attention... You can be a giver but you don't have to give it all away. Divas are sexier than doormats aren't they...?


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## woodstock (Feb 21, 2011)

Ya, but it's hard when you have to fight yourself not to give... Diva is NOT a role that I am confortable in and I would never be happy pretending it. I have to be me, but it does not mean that I am not to be appreciated for who I am without having to play a part of someone else for that to be seen.... I do love acting, but that ends when i walk off a stage.... I like me.... don't really want to be anyone else  Ok so I I have the secret wish to be one of the filthy rich just to see what that's like HAAAAA but in real life, I ain't too bad HAHA


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

Blanca said:


> I do deny my H sex. He's not livid because im not doing it out of resentment or to get even. Im doing it because im extremely hurt by what he's done in the past and he knows that. Im not mean about it and I actually feel bad for what he is going through since Ive been there, but i know its necessary for my healing. Ive told him all this. i actually feel empathy for him. that makes a huge difference.


I still don't get it- I'm interested but not understanding the reasoning behind it. What does denying him do for your healing? How does it work?



loren said:


> You say you're upset about it when he rejects you, but you keep asking for his affection, so you're currently showing him that his rejection of you does not change the status quo.


Ah ha I see that.



> Change the status quo. How you do this is up to you. Maybe stop asking. Maybe stop responding when he finally gets around to coming to you. Maybe stop meeting his primary (sex) needs whilst your primary (affection) needs are still shrugged off. Use his words "I need space" on him when next he tries to jump your bones. You might think you don't need it; you may actually want to be close to him in any way, and just forfiet cuddles, taking only the sexual aspect as a consolation prize, but it could actually be helpful to pull back. Think about what it means to have this person in your life that still choses not share the most basic and initmate things with you. Give him time to reflect as well. It's reductive to let fear that a man is going to lose interest or act oblivious stop you from doing what needs to be done. He is acting oblivious already. Insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting different results. You can't change him, but you can change yourself, and then the dynamic could possibly yeild different results.


I could do any of those things suggested and know he'd be on it straightaway saying I'm being resentful, playing games, or being petty. I just wouldn't know how to respond.

We argued about it last night. I said I couldn't live the next 40/50 years spending every evening not touching each other, not even sitting next to each other. I said about it being like he has a bubble around him and I can't get inside his "space" which he said was stupid. He flat out denies he rejects me yet says when he's had a hard day at work he just wants to sit back and relax in his own space- so which is it?!

He says I want us to be entangled all evening every evening- erm no I NEVER said that- I said we're in a relationship for a reason, we don't just coincidentally live together in the same house 

He brought up when he does sit next to me on the sofa, he says I lay my legs over him and he feels he can't move, if I put my head on his lap he doesn't like it as he has to move me every time he wants to get up. It feels like the more I ask, the less he wants to and the more he makes out I'm imagining it *shrugs* I feel REALLY angry about it right now.


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## loren (Sep 13, 2010)

tobio said:


> I feel REALLY angry about it right now.


Exactly. Therefore, you are NOT being "petty" or "resentful" (or "stupid"!!!!) by pulling away from him. You are honouring your feelings and removing yourself from this man who feels the need to give you a daily (and soon to be lifelong) reminder of how much of an imposition to him you really are. 

You want to go further with this? Marry him and let your daughters see you being treated like furniture? Have your sons learn this model of relationship interaction? He has shown you time and time again, trying to verbalise your needs won't change his ways, it will lead to fights. Pull away. Let him call you petty or resentful, it is his way of belittling and minimising what you feel. I'd wager you don't jump on him and call him a pu$$y or be-otch every time he whines about being touched. You accept this behaviour, even though it hurts you, and you haven't brushed aside his emotions (I'm more inclined, actually, to call them 'whims') in the process because you respect him. I am seeing this, and many other instances in your relationship, as a sign that this respect it is not reciprocated. 

I'm sorry to lay this on you in such a blunt way, and I know you may now be 'past the point of no return' in this relationship, but he is showing you daily that your needs don't matter as much as his. There's a passage on this exact same situation in He's Just Not That Into You (read below). 

11 He's Just Not That Into You if he's a Selfish Jerk, a Bully or a Really Big Freak

Hopefully you can get some clarity over the situation when it is laid out in a farcical way, because it really is farcical. What kind of man can't spare a kiss for the mother of his children?


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

Well NOW he has said he's going to move out if things carry on like this. Came home from work, he asked me what the matter was. I said you KNOW, it's the same thing as last night, it hasn't changed.

He went through the evening- "why would I want to sit with you when you sit with the laptop and the headphones on?" I pointed out that from my POV it didn't make any difference what I was doing as trying to initate affection, being open to it and being occupied elicited the same response- nothing.

He keeps coming back to the fact I seemingly want to have him sit next to me all the time and drape myself over him, I have this idea apparently that he sits next to me every evening (god forbid!), I lay my legs on him and we clasp hands all evening (yes he said this), he doesn't like it, again he just wants some space after he comes in from work. Ok- I can live with that- but that doesn't account for all the other times. And he STILL doesn't acknowledge he turns me down so regularly, it's as if he genuinely believes he regularly returns my affections when I initiate them- I don't get this, either he's in denial or he really doesn't remember because he thinks I'm talking rubbish when I say this?

It seems to have now come to us both digging our heels in as neither of us will "give", I refuse to be ignored anymore and he hates me putting it in his face (this is very not like me at all) and he refuses to believe there is a problem with the situation, if anything he says it's my fault.

He is now saying he doesn't WANT to be affectionate with me if I am acting the way I am. Ok, I see the point when I step back- but like I said, what exactly IS IT he wants me to do that I haven't done because the usual me obviously isn't cutting it?

To add: just off to read that article. And no, I don't say anything when he does turn me down, I always rationalise it, he's had a long day at work, he's tired, he's busy etc- but he's nearly always like that. Like I said, he's never too tired for sex *shrugs*


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## loren (Sep 13, 2010)

tobio said:


> Well NOW he has said he's going to move out if things carry on like this.


So now he is using threats of abandonment (i.e. emotional abuse) as a form of keeping the status quo...? He wants sex and comfort from you when he wants it, but if anything interferes with that (i.e. your needs) he'll "leave" will he? I have to admire your patience if you didn't seize the opportunity to call him 'petty' or 'stupid' right back.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

Yeah he says this on occasion when things are particularly fraught. He won't look deeper into what I'm saying, he just goes on the defensive and looks for an escape rather than face up to what is being said.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Right now, he seems unwilling to meet your need, simply unwilling to try. Have you worked on your need for affection? Is that unalterable? ARe you feeling esp needy now that you are pg? Is he feeling esp distant b/c of his fears about fatherhood? 

I disagree that you should play any game with him. You tell him directly and clearly, "I need affection. Without affection, my resentment grows. I will get to the point where I will not want to have sex with you because of my resentment. I may stop having sex then, or keep having it with the resentment b/c I want our marriage to work. But either way, sooner or later, I will not be able to continue, and our marriage will fall apart because without sex, you will begin to resent me." You say this calmly and without accusation. You are pointing out what you NEED to feel loved and happy, and you are pointing out the consequences for your need not being met.

Notice you never say, "You [h] need to do X, Y, Z." or anything about him. 

Reiterate at the end, "I need affection. This is who I am."

If YOU need affection and HE needs space, it may not work. He sounds like he's being very selfish, but if he really cannot "close the gap," he may have some sensory issues or something else going on. If he decides he'd like to TRY to meet your need, counseling may be in order. Having him doling out affection in a miserly way won't be much improvement.

There is a huge difference between him not WANTING to meet your need, and him being unable to. The former is selfish, that latter is not. The latter can be explored with counseling and could, possibly, still prove to be an intractable problem. But in that case, at least you would know he cared and he tried. That makes a huge difference and working through it together--successfully or not, in the end--will bring you closer together and you may feel an affection he was otherwise not capable of showing.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

tobio said:


> MWIL, I have read many of your posts and am awed at your patience and efforts.
> 
> I appreciate the idea of little steps, I have been easing off on how much I do for him but tbh I wonder sometimes if I'm being selfish? Like, when he gets in from work I offer him a cup of tea, he'll have been on his feet all day (literally) so to me it's just a thoughtful thing to do. Do I do that or not? Do I make his sandwiches for work or not (currently not) or is that selfish of me? I think as a SAHM I worry that not doing some of this stuff is neglecting my role IYSWIM?


I wouldn't say to punish him by not doing things for him that you normally do...just don't have "your" world revolve around him - there's a difference.

Since you are a SAHM, then are things you would normally do in that role and others might not when working outside of the home instead of working inside of the home (and YES - a SAHM is working inside of the home - maybe harder than those of us that work outside of the home - I have a lot of patience, but not sure even I could do this - kudo's to you!).

So continue to do those things for your husband that you would normally do as a SAHM, just don't do anything extra.

Sure, I'd offer him a cup of tea.

Sure, I'd still make his sandwiches for work.

But - if you are, stop asking how he's doing, does he need anything, how was dinner, etc. These are all designed to solicit a response that will cause YOU to feel better or YOU to do something for him.

A simple "how was work?" will do. Don't ask for details or say - you must be tired; when you leave the room, don't ask if you can get something for him, etc. Just balance things out a bit.

An example that I used was, when my husband got up to go to the bathroom, I would ask HIM - could you please get me a bottle of water when you come back? And he did - just simple things like that.

Now, when he leaves the room, he ASKS ME if I need anything - a bit of a role reversal and a little more focus on me. 

Maybe stay up when he goes to bed and watch your favorite TV show, and spend some alone time after he and the kids are in bed.

Just little things like that. You don't want him to think you don't love him - but you want him to realize that "YOU" are part of this marriage also and have needs too.

My husband is an acts of service love language and I'm physical touch. It appears to actually make him uncomfortable if too much touching is going on (this also has something to do with his TBI), so I backed off for a while and let him come to me, it took some time (about a year or so), but he eventually started off by patting my hand, then my back while in bed and has now progressed to asking me to sit on his lap in his recliner (that was HUGE - been a long, long time - just recently happened).

So now I've backed off the sex issue and we'll see if we get the same outcome. I'm not asking, begging, pleading or even approaching the subject - I'm giving him time to feel safe about not having sex and hoping that it will make him want it more.

We'll see - good luck!


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

tobio said:


> I still don't get it- I'm interested but not understanding the reasoning behind it. What does denying him do for your healing? How does it work?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Never - ever - never use sex as a bargaining tool. It's cruel and will just cause resentment from him. And believe me, I think it's harder to get a man over resentment than a woman. We tend to be the more "forgiving" type.

I realize you have needs that are not being met. But using sex as blackmail to get your needs met is never the answer. I have never and would never advocate this as a response in a marriage.

Is it possible, like my husband, that he is physically uncomfortable with all the touching? I know my husband is and it's not all related to his TBI. He's never been very touchy-feely due to abuse in his family and closing off his emotions so that he wouldn't get hurt.

We've been married 26 years and when he hugs me, there is still some hesitation in the hug - it's not wholehearted. And I know it's not me - it's just how he is. So I make do with the affection I do get - the pats, the occasional sit on my lap, the occasional reaching out for me while we're sleeping. Not what I would like - but I compromised.

Can you compromise? I know it's hard - I've been living with it for 26 years - but, if he's not a touchy-feely type of man, nothing you do or say is going to change that. It's uncomfortable for him, in some manner - maybe you need to find out WHY it's uncomfortable for him and get him to open up about it - there has to be a reason he can do without it and it's uneasy for him, all the excuses he gives you about your legs lying on his, etc., are just a smokescreen - there is a reason...why not approach it like - "honey, it seems that you are uncomfortable with all the touching that I need, I know it's not me (because he's going to think that you're going to make it about you) - is it really uncomfortable to you, is it something we could compromise on, I really don't want you to feel that you HAVE to be close to me physically, I WANT you to want to be close, what can I do to help?"

Find out what that is and meet him in the middle.

Was he like this BEFORE you got married? IOW, I'm sure he was more touchy, we all are when we're dating - but was he really the PDA type, or was he not the type and you just didn't notice. When looking back, I realized that my husband was never the PDA type, even when we were dating - now sex, that used to be the bomb - but outside of that, he was never holding my hand, hanging all over me, etc., just wasn't his style and it had NOTHING to do with me.

Think about it...and good luck!


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

sisters359 said:


> Right now, he seems unwilling to meet your need, simply unwilling to try. Have you worked on your need for affection? Is that unalterable? ARe you feeling esp needy now that you are pg? Is he feeling esp distant b/c of his fears about fatherhood?
> 
> I disagree that you should play any game with him. You tell him directly and clearly, "I need affection. Without affection, my resentment grows. I will get to the point where I will not want to have sex with you because of my resentment. I may stop having sex then, or keep having it with the resentment b/c I want our marriage to work. But either way, sooner or later, I will not be able to continue, and our marriage will fall apart because without sex, you will begin to resent me." You say this calmly and without accusation. You are pointing out what you NEED to feel loved and happy, and you are pointing out the consequences for your need not being met.
> 
> ...


Sounds like he may be more of an introvert and she's an extrovert.

Introverts have problems with displays of affection - not sex, just everyday displays of affection that seem normal to the rest of us.

She will never change this if he is in fact a true introvert and a somewhat loner. She will either have to compromise, live with it or leave. This is deep in his psyche and nothing she does is going to change it.

I know - I've been married to an introvert for 26 years - it is what it is - I've adapted.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

Just want to clarify a couple of points.

First- I'm not pg, we've just had a baby who's 5 months and have three others aged 7 and under.

Second- I realise reading back I didn't sound clear but I didn't mean I was thinking of using sex as blackmail. I WILL say that I am not the type who can just carry on regardless though with sex when things are not good outside the bedroom. I just cannot share myself, give myself that intimately to someone who seems so blase about my feelings. Things on that score- we haven't been close for maybe four or five days but that is more because of the baby waking up in the evening than me refusing him or anything else.

The other thing I think is pertinent to mention. When we first started seeing each other, he was affectionate. I was. He was BIG on PDAs. I wasn't. He had a real issue with me not wanting to lavish affection on him when we went out. Tbh I always felt a little self-conscious at the thought of sticking my tongue down a boyfriend's throat when out for drinks! But otherwise we were both affectionate with each other.

Now? I feel like I have been missold. He has started bringing this up when we discuss the situation. "Oh and you never wanted to be affectionate before so what's changed?" Erm yes I did, and SO DID YOU. He has said the couple dynamic changes over time, how many other couples do we know who have been together a while are all affectionate with each other (he thinks they just don't after a while.) When he says that, I hear that I am taken for granted. We aren't married but have been discussing getting married later this year and tbh if he is so immovable on this which is a HUGE thing for me, then it does make me think what's the point?


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## loren (Sep 13, 2010)

tobio said:


> Just want to clarify a couple of points.
> 
> First- I'm not pg, we've just had a baby who's 5 months and have three others aged 7 and under.
> 
> ...


I am very glad you posted this in light of the responses you received. Playing the 'good wife' will get your nowhere if a man is so obviously expressing his desire to remain taciturn about your needs. Carrying on regardless and pandering to him will maintain the status quo. Women that tell you not to make him think you don't love him, are still placing all the consideration on the man. He is not making you feel loved, why should you be concerned about playing it safe when he is being so reckless with you...? I am not telling you to play games, I am telling you to honour your feelings. You are angry and hurt and rejected, act like it and let him know you won't take this.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

I am "honouring my feelings." As a result we have barely spoken for two days. We are civil where we have to speak but otherwise the conversation has been nil. I have been doing my thing and leaving him to it. He has a couple of times tried to reach out by buying me ice cream and favourite drinks without me asking- I think he's hoping it'll warm the distinctly cool atmosphere. I have been going to bed before him. 

I met up with an old friend and took the kids with me earlier. I made sure to stay out where we would usually be at home, that is when he arrived back from work, and stayed out three hours after. He has now gone out and will be back shortly but I will prob be going to bed soon anyway. I think this weekend will be telling, we usually try to get out and about together but it's going to be awkward. I have plans anyway which he could come along on if he wanted but I don't "need" him with me for anything so unless he decides to approach the issues at hand I shall just carry on being civil. 

Whilst I feel fine with this so far, I don't know how long I can do this minimal contact thing. Cool is fine on the emotional thermostat, it doesn't come naturally and I think he is hoping I will switch back up. He is naturally a "cool" on the scale.


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