# TOO Comfortable?



## mlestan (Jun 4, 2009)

Hello everyone. I am new to this site much like the rest of you. My wife and I have been married for a little less than a year and it has hit a snag (in my opinion of course). I normally wouldn't post on such an anonymous website but I recently confided in a friend and it somehow made it back to my wife that I had considered myself 'miserable'. So here goes...

Back in February I lost my job. At the same time, my wife was seemingly excelling at hers. In the months that have followed, a few things have been boiling:

1. Seems she loves her job more than me
2. Haven't had sex in nearly two months now
3. She sleeps ALL the time

Let me address each briefly:

1. Seems she loves her job more than me: My wife and I communicate alright. We talk about our day, what we did and what was exciting. It started great with her talking about her job all the time. I got into it and listened intently the best I could. I would ask questions when I didn't understand what she was talking about and was generally interested. Since then, however, it is an everyday thing. She talks about nothing BUT work and I basically don't care anymore. It would be different if, once in a while, she talked positively about it. But now, all she has is complaints. If it's not her boss, it's how busy she is at work. I mean, I complained a lot at work too, but after a while, there was always someone that would tell me what a douche I sounded like. I've tried asking her what 'good' happened that day and she normally starts in on something but then gravitates towards the complaining. Now, since I've been out of work, it seems she spends even more time at work than she did before. Because she commutes a great distance, she sometimes stays at her sister's in the event that she is at work so late. I know that she is not cheating but I feel like I am taking a backseat to her job. She rarely calls/texts during the day and if I do, I feel like I am always getting blown off because she is too busy to talk. When I bring it up with her, she says that she is working hard to get somewhere in the company. Funny that the company issued an email freezing all raises, promotions, and pensions in April. Basically, she's not going anywhere anytime soon.

2. No sex in 2 months: This is just a normal complaint from all guys on here it seems. The 2 months I can't really ***** about since she had complications with her BC and was on her period for three weeks and now has a hemorrhoid on her butt that is holding us back. However, before this recent stint, there were times that we went a week or two without it. Now in the past, I struggled with a bit of porn addiction that almost ended our relationship. Granted, this was not as bad as most, but more of a once a day self serving thing. I thought (and basically still do think) that the amount that I did it was normal and that 'every' guy self serves about once a day. She didn't see it that way. So I changed. What can I say? I loved her more than that. And back in those times, it's weird because the sex was amazing. It was spontaneous sometimes and generally great overall everytime. But then when I stopped wanking to the internet, it seemed like the sex stopped too. We slipped into a routine and then when I brought it up that I was unhappy with the situation, I was told that sex is just not a 'priority' on her list and that she would try to work on it. That was nearly a half a year ago. Since then, sex has been awful. Same thing everytime, no spontaneity, and general dissatisfaction. And now, since it has been 2 months, the self serving has returned out of necessity. I feel like she just doesn't like having sex with me. I know for a fact she used to like it. But everytime that I bring it up, she has an excuse. Which brings me to the last, and most important point.

3. She sleeps ALL the time: My wife gets up around 4:30 in the morning everyday for work. This generally means that she comes home around 6 - 6:30 from work, eats dinner, and then basically sits on the couch and falls asleep in less than an hour. So basically, we have NO time together for anything. I am understanding about the commute and what it takes out of you. Which is why I don't generally hold it against her during the week. I even started waking up with her in the morning in order to spend more time. However, my problem comes on Friday and Saturday where the sleeping continues. Friday is the same as every other day as she slips into dreamland at like 7pm. Saturday she wakes up at about 9 and is asleep from about noon until 3 and then eats and if we have nothing to go to, falls asleep at 9 at night. I spend as much time with her as I can but she is always complaining that she is tired, which pisses me off because I know that means no sex that night (every night). I ask her to see a doctor but her response is "I know what he's going to say, that I am depressed and try to put me on meds. I am not willing to do that". It got to the point where I actually came out and said that I think we are in trouble. I didn't pick the best time to do it, but even so, her response was lackluster. She thought there was no problem and couldn't understand why I thought there was. I outlined these three points here and for every one it was "well what do you want me to do about it. I can't help that I drive three hours a day and am tired". YES YOU CAN. I do it all the time. A lot of young people do (she's 24). Are you telling me that it's worth more for you to sleep than it is to hang out with your husband ONCE in a while? She has alienated all her friends so she has none. Her best friend moved to NC but she still keeps in touch. 

I don't know what to do. I am out of ideas on how to communicate to her that I am unhappy with how it is going and that if things don't improve, our marriage will suffer greatly. I have come out and straight up told her that I am unhappy and the response is the same, "What do you want me to do about it?" and when I outline some things, she always concedes and says she'll try, but they never happen. Things always go back to the way SHE wants them to be. 

I need advice. This is just the tip of the iceberg but this post has gotten long enough. Thanks in advance.


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## dcrim (Oct 1, 2008)

I don't know, but it sounds to me that if she's spending the night "there" occasionally and not giving you attention, she may be having a PA. 

If you have 2 cars, go there one night and see if hers is really at her sisters. If not, park in the driveway and see if she comes home (I'd bet NOT). When it's time for her to go to work, get up early and wait for her in the parking lot and ask why she wasn't at her sisters like she said. 

Take it from there...


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

you say there's more to your story, but based on what you've posted, your wife is suffering from depression. i can't say it's situational or clinical; that's not one of my fields of expertise.

when depressed, it doesn't matter how much one sleeps, you're still tired. overwhelmingly tired.

when depressed, one's sexual appetite decreases, sometimes it disappears altogether.

when depressed, one becomes emotionally and physically inert, confused, and frustrated by the lack of volition and not knowing how to change.

another poster suggested your wife may be having an affair; that may or may not be the case, i doubt it, but it is not uncommon for depression to instigate unexpected behaviour.

if your wife is depressed her condition requires a theraputic, if not medical, intervention.

and now, respectfully, based on your post, you spend an abundance of time explaining to your wife ways she could or should change to improve your marriage yet scant empathy for her situation.

i don't think you mean to come off that way, you seem like a caring guy.

if her depression is situational, i wonder what you think the cause may be.


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## MsLady (Dec 1, 2008)

I agree that it sounds like she's suffering from depression. Heck, she TOLD you she's suffering from depression:



> I ask her to see a doctor but her response is "I know what he's going to say, that I am depressed and try to put me on meds.


I know that depression is a tough thing to understand and to empathize with when you are at the receiving end of the complaining, constant sleeping, lack of libido, etc. It is hard for you too. The fact that she has ditched all her friends is also a huge sign of depression.

But the best thing you can do right now is step outside of yourself and put your needs on a shelf and get in there and help her. Sadly, she doens't even know she needs help and is highly resistant. But, part of her defensiveness may be that the way you approach is all about making demands (nicely or otherwise) on her. Depressed people can't handle any demands.

Think about this and if you feel that there's some truth to it, then understand that your wife is ill. Depression is real. And it doesn't always come in the form of a crying heap of a person that you can cuddle and hold until they feel better. Depressed people can still get up and go to work, but often can't do much else.

Next time you talk to her, tell her that you are worried about her. That you see that she's tired and sad and overwhelmed. That you agree with what she said about being depressed. Ask her how you can help. Ask her to let you help her talk to someone. If she's very resistant, I might even set up an appointment for her and drive her there - she may be more willing to go than she is willing to do the footwork to set up an appt.

As for the internet thing ... is it an addiction or are you just a guy that whacks off once per day? Cuz, I don't think whacking off once a day is unusual, weird or wrong in any way .. for a man or a woman. Only you know if this is just a normal physiological release or something compulsive. If it is a problem, get help for it. Just because your wive's being disconnected doesn't give you free reigns to become unhealthy yourself.

Your marriage sounds liike a good marriage that is going through a bad patch due to your wife's depression and your unemployment. I would stop scaring her (and yourself) with doom and gloom scenarios about the marriage and start working hard for a solution, knowing that, if she's clinically depressed, she's not going to be able to pull much of the load right now. It shouldn't be like that forever, of course, and if as time passes, she continues to be unwilling to help herself, well, you may decide you don't want to be with someone like that. But, for now, you haven't tried hard enough to help her. You've just been complaining.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

mlestan-

There are 2 things going on and possibly 3.

1)She is depressed for sure. It is your job to find out why. The sleeping and staying in bed is a sure sign. She may feel she has married the wrong guy or... see #3 below.

2)She has that common but unfortunate propensity to combine depression with utter selfishness - she does not care a damn about your feelings.

3)... She might be having if not a full blown affair, then at least an exciting liaison with someone at work. The fact that you state you know she is not having an affair is a red flag. Her complaining about work all the time is a typical smokescreen people use when they are having an affair. Her sleeping away from home is a red flag also. The sleeping all the time could be due to the fact that she only gets to see her fancy man at work because he is married, and the rest of the time that she is not at work she spends depressed. This is the typical response of an addict between fixes. OK - so #3 is pure conjecture, but the signs are so clear...

Do not under any circumstances get her pregnant if sex resumes, until she has demonstrated that she has her depression and selfishness under control. If you think you are miserable now, you have no idea the depths things can sink to. However there are other threads on here that...

As for the thread title "too comfortable"... what were you meaning? No sex for 2 months would be hell for me.


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## mlestan (Jun 4, 2009)

Thanks to everyone for all the advice. I respect most of it and leave which I don't out on the table. 

SO...this weekend it came to a head and at this point, I have a terrible feeling that the marriage will not survive until the first anniversary in August. 

It all started with a comment at the bar after a generally nice evening out. I made a comment about the large bill we incurred and that the fact that she was drinking doubles was perhaps a bit over the top (we go to the bar about once a month minus sporting events...so no need for alcoholism talk) and her response was "at least I have a job". I immediately just went quiet. I figured better to say nothing at all than to start a fight. But she kept asking if I was mad and finally I told her that I was. 

Skip forward to being home, we talked for nearly two hours. The discussion never got heated, but we discussed what was going on. I relayed the information I initially posted here and she aired out some of her grievances. However, the discussion was filled with angry concessions and 'whatever'. The discussion wore on into the night until the real problem, for me, sex, came up. I explained that sex is a HUGE part of marriage and that, although not on the top, is on a short list of priorities for me. On her turn to talk, she explained that she has continued to be unable to have a true orgasm with me ans that for the last three years, has been faking it to make me happy. She explained to me that sex is not even ON her priority list. I was completely dumbfounded as we have had similar conversations before and I was repeatedly assured that she was being honest in the bedroom. I couldn't talk at that point. So the end of the night ended with me sleeping in the guest bedroom. 

So the next day, the awkwardness after waking up was astounding. I was sure that our marriage was over at that point and needed someone to talk to so I began packing a bag to stay the night at a friends a few hours away. While packing, she came in and, point blank, asked me if I was leaving her ("So you're leaving me then?"). I explained to her that I didn't know what to do anymore. That I was tired of feeling like her brother or a family member and that having sex is a MAJOR part of a good marriage. Her response, as it always has been since the discovery of the fact that I look at pornography (and for that poster...dude, just like everyone else, I just whack it once a day or every other day. Normal right?), was that all she thought about when having sex is whether I was thinking about her or the chicks on the net. Since she was doing that, sex, for her with me, was deemed uncomfortable for her. I reassured her again that she was gorgeous and that I loved her very much and that during sex, I was for sure thinking about her. But I also explained that I couldn't go the rest of my life without having sex. That hit her pretty hard. The brother analogy really hit home with her and she needed to really think before everything she said in the conversation after that. The conversation continued, though. We talked for about four hours about the things that were on our mind. We laid everything on the table. For me, I told her I cannot live in a sexless marriage. She explained that she didn't know if she would ever be able to change. That, for the past three years, she has tried everything to relieve her of those thoughts without success. That now, she just feels uncomfortable. By the end, we had come up with three options: She concedes and lies there and let's me get it out, I concede and wait to see if she can ever get over this, or lastly, we split. However, a decision was never reached. We both explained to each other that we didn't want us to end and were afraid to be the one to put it out there. Again, the conversation was never heated and was quite polite. 

I decided that I would head to my friend's (2.5 hours one way) and do some thinking. She was alright with that. So I drove and drove and thought and thought. I got to my friends and we watched the end of the golf tournament and I had a beer. We didn't talk much and once I saw that Tiger had it in the bag, I had an idea. I thought that I would go back home to her. To show her that I did not want to run away or take time to think, but that the decision was easy. We are MARRIED and that means a lot to me, so if I had to be more patient, that I would be. But I got home and got a different reaction than I had anticipated (aren't they always though?). She explained to me that while I was gone, that she had prepared herself for the worst. She had put up a wall. I explained to her that I didn't need to soulsearch for days and that I was ready to accept going without sex and waiting forever if I had to for her. She still couldn't get over the 180. She explained that what I had said earlier had really hit home and that she realized that my happiness was most important and that if she couldn't provide that for me, that it wasn't fair for me to be in this marriage. I explained that suring my thinking, that happiness as it relates to sex is just one piece of the giant pie that is our marriage. I said that being with her makes me happy and was being completely honest. However, she was not willing to accept that and chalked it up to being scared. I told her that fear definitely played a small part but in the overall picture that I was better off with her than without. She explained that she was not entirely sure because of what she had just gone through but was willing to accept what I was saying. She said she didn't believe it, but was willing to move forward. And that takes us to the present. 

But I am scared that the more she thinks about it, that she will leave me. But I am willing to find out. 

Let me clear up a few points about my earlier post:

-- There is no cheating going on. When she stays at her sister's, she generally calls me when she gets there and a couple of more times. Her sister has two LOUD children so I always know that she is being truthful. 

-- She has had medical advice given to her about the sleeping. She chose not to take the meds. I can't argue with her about it anymore. I am tapped out.

-- I never and still do not think that I have an addiction to porn. But when the argument reached its height and she threatened leaving, I did go to sexaholics meetings. Had a sponsor and everything. But when she came back to me, she explained that she never believed that I actually went. So I stopped going because things began to improve in our relationship and I thought she trusted me at that point. I have been later updated that she STILL does not trust me. 

So that is the latest update. I am a little unsure if coming back so fast was the right decision but I am sticking by it. I am hanging on to a glimmer of hope, but like my wife told me, she thinks that there is a slim to none chance this works out and slim just left the building.


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## Dizzy (Jun 3, 2009)

It seems from your post that if your wife could get past wondering who you're thinking about during sex it would solve a lot of problems for you both. Have you tried talking to your wife while you're having sex? Tell her what it is about her specifically that turns you on...things that she will know that relate only to her and not to women in general. Remind her about the things that attracted you to her in the first place. Sometimes it's not enough to say "I love you. Of course I want to have sex with you." You need to tell her "why" you want to have sex with "her". 

If having sex isn't an option right now, tell her anyway. It might improve the odds of building a new bridge.

I don't have one to suggest, but maybe it would help to get a book or two that deals with how to develop more intimacy during sex.

Hang in there. It can be a long road and sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a wonderful thing.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Be very careful and protective of yourself here. If she lied to you about having orgasms during sex, then she has married you "under false pretenses." That does not make either of you "bad" people--it may just be a mistake. How awful for both of you, really, and I hope it is a huge relief to you to know the truth. And PLEASE do not assume there is ANYTHING wrong with you--attraction for women is so complicated!! I cannot get over the differences between who we women are attracted to. I don't mean, guys we never met and think are hot (Clive Owens). I mean, real life guys we women might admit to one another that we'd "do" if given the right set of circumstances. I would not let some of my friends' "choices" touch me with the proverbial ten-foot pole, nor would they let mine. It has nothing to do with basic looks, usually--yeah, cleanliness and no morbid obesity are usually in play, but other than that, our attractions are triggered by something non-visual, and it's either there, or it isn't. So while I admire you for wanting to see if she can get past this problem, I encourage you to work on your self-esteem if you need to and to prepare for moving on if necessary. Good luck; you sound like a great guy who may just need to meet the right girl yet.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

*This:*


mlestan said:


> I explained to her that I didn't know what to do anymore. That I was tired of feeling like her brother or a family member and that having sex is a MAJOR part of a good marriage.


*Combined with this: *


mlestan said:


> I explained to her that I didn't need to soulsearch for days and that I was ready to accept going without sex and waiting forever if I had to for her.


shows her that you have no backbone. You are prepared to roll over and be emotionally abused. That's why she is not attracted to you.

Telling anybody you will wait forever until they fancy you is the most chumpish thing you can ever come out with.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Given your apparent willingness to wait forever, I think you need to read my previous paragraph again:



MarkTwain said:


> mlestan-
> Do not under any circumstances get her pregnant if sex resumes, until she has demonstrated that she has her depression and selfishness under control. If you think you are miserable now, you have no idea the depths things can sink to. However there are other threads on here that...


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## mugsymo (Jun 9, 2009)

from my experience women like a bit of effort, make romantic dinner, take her out. My wife is depressed and kept sleeping all the time so i moved out and gave her space so she started getting up and doing things.
Dont worry about the porn thing my wife used to complain about it than she saw sense and started watching it with me.... and uses a vibrator. Nothing annoys woman more if u keep trying to have sex with them even if they dont want it and porn prevents you from annoying her. I did find there are some momments where the woman wants you to take control and be a man and actually do take them for granted. women can be very confusing people and its the same for them as well
Im dont know everything but im just talking about my own experiences and i hope they have helped


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## mlestan (Jun 4, 2009)

Thank you all for your replies. I am reading them all and using the information from them as I make decisions. But here are some updates.

I do realize that by coming back, that I basically handed her the upper hand and surrendered my backbone. But in my head, that's what you have to do in a marriage sometimes. I came on this site hoping for advice to SAVE my marriage rather than reasons to end it. So, therefore, I have paid extreme attention to those comments that reflect my views. That's not to say all of you do not have good points though. 

But now that the marriage is, at least, back on the train tracks, I find myself living in fear from day to day. I keep thinking that she is going to walk in the house each day and say that she cannot just handle it anymore and that too much damage has been done. I fear that my marriage will end. I love this woman deeply and with all my heart. It would certainly be a crushing blow to lose her. Mind you that I lost my job in February and we are about to lose our hose on top of that. So combine those two things in my head and it comes out to your basic trifecta of being in the ****. But I remain hopeful in some respect. Hopeful that a corner will turn. But patience as a virtue right now is the hardest thing I have ever had to do.

Just a few more quick replies to some of the posts.

-- I am the master of romantic situations. I have made candlelight dinners, lavished her with inexpensive, but thoughtful gifts, and generally told her at least once a day one thing that makes her so attractive to me. Nothing works. She can't get over the sex thing. But there's time to fix this if she is patient. But that's putting money on her patience and that is bad odds.

-- To the poster that was concerned about me. You are awesome! Thank you. That was really nice. The faking of the orgasms was a big blow but not a knockout punch. The way I HAVE to look at it to stay sane is that she was doing it to please me and for that I have to be a little (very little) grateful. However, just like her now, the next time we have sex I will be thinking about that just like she is in her head too. I don't have that figured out yet. 

-- "False pretenses" did come up during the conversation the other day. I think I am in denial over this fact. She is the type of person that doesn;t hold back what she is thinking and for her to get MARRIED under false pretenses is something that I cannot absorb right now. It makes me extremely sad/mad just thinking about it.

So basically, the marriage is teetering right on the edge now. My fear resonates from the fact that I can't figure out which way it's going to fall yet. I consider myself a great guy. She has told me that I am the man of her dreams on more than one occasion. But after she lied about the bedroom activity, I find myself questioning every detail she makes about the relationship, every time she leaves "I love you" out of a conversation, email, or text, and most importantly, her dedication to making this marriage work. 

I mean, we haven't even celebrated our first anniversary yet. We haven't even gotten to enjoy marriage and all the joy that is supposed to come with it. Each day that passes makes me more and more depressed. But I am committed to making this work. I DO love her and cannot imagine my life without her. And screw anyone ho wouldn't wait for the love of their life to figure things out. I just hope that I am still the love of HER life. 

Thanks everyone. Keep it coming. I NEED the advice right now.


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## Sandy55 (Jun 3, 2009)

Am going to put my two cents in here. Pretend to be in your wife's shoes, so please bear with me. 

Perhaps your wife is depressed for a really GOOD reason?
For example: How would YOU _feel_ if you could get really excited, love your spouse, she turns you ON, but you CANNOT have an orgasm with her? How would YOU feel if you really loved her, you could get hard, get to the edge of orgasm and NOTHING happened you didn't "tumble off the cliff" so to speak?

I don't know about other WOMEN on this forum, but if I were your wife I would be pretty depressed about that! Add on to it the stress of having to keep it a secret for FEAR you would reject her, and you have a sure recipe for a rocky marriage so early on.

It is really sad to me that because she has faked orgasms you feel as if she "duped" you in the bedroom! This is not the way I am seeing this at ALL! 

I believe she started out trying to save your ego and to also save herself from having to admit such a VERY personal and VERY embarasing thing: SHE cannot orgasm with you. In our society today, the "requirement" or "pressure" for a woman to climax has become such an ISSUE that perhaps she was hiding the fact she can't orgasm. She may be very upset thinking there is something wrong with her if she can't do this with you! I think you should be giving her the benefit of the doubt.

If she is avoiding sex with you it may be because she is getting so frustrated with HERSELF that she is shutting down and pushing you away because of pressure and her frustration with the whole "orgasming with you" thing. 

I tend to agree with MarkTwain that you need to NOT let her get pregnant until these issues are worked out, and you cannot say to her ONE minute "sex is a MAKE or BREAK in our marriage" and then the NEXT minute run to her and sing some **** and bull song that "sex isn't that important...". When you TOLD the woman her NOT having sex was going to break your marriage you scared the hell out of her - especially if her not having orgasms + having pressure psychologically on her for it, is the REASON she is avoiding having sex to begin with. If this is the case, then now her pressure has mounted 100 fold.

Answer these for me if you will:

Does she orgasm _alone_? Can she orgasm _in front of you_ while pleasuring _herself_?:scratchhead: She may NEVER have orgasmed during sex with ANYONE and has just faked it ALWAYS and doesn't want to admit this because it maybe makes her feel like some freak. She may not KNOW half of women don't orgasm during intercourse.

I have some suggestions when and if you decide to answer these questions. You don't need to tell me details, just IF she can or cannot do these things.

Also, how OLD is she and what is her previous experience with orgasms, and sex in general?:scratchhead:


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## mlestan (Jun 4, 2009)

Sandy55,

What a great post. Most of what you said is reasonable and logical. Most often times, I forget about the women's point of view. 

I agree with you about leaving and coming back. That is exactly why I came back though. I drove the 2.5 hours there and the 2.5 back and it gave me time to think and realize how wrong I was for saying that sex would make or break our marriage. I started to realize what a marathon it was and had to go back to ensure the wall that she put up wasn't impenetrable. Looking back, I am glad I did come back. Because the way she was talking, it sounded like if I had stayed at my friend's, there was a possibility she wouldn't have been there if I hadn't.

Now to the nitty-gritty. First, an update:

We ended up heading up north this past weekend to relax. The vacation was on the books already before we had talked about marriage but I was still surprised she wanted to go. While we were up there, "cold" is about the best word to describe how it went. She did her thing and I did mine. I tried to butt in on what she was doing a few times but would only get the cold shoulder and small talk. We were up there with my parents which definitely made her feel a bit overmatched. My mother can be overbearing at times, especially if she has been drinking. We did end up at a party one night where she let LOOSE. It was an all-guys party with people she knew from work and she became the life of the party. All these guys were much older than us but that didn't stop her from throwing them back and being loud and in charge. At one point, she even challenged a guy there that most obviously could beat her to a drinking contest the next day with the terms being that the loser having to run a hole on the golf course naked and do a sand "angel" in one of the bunkers in front of everyone. To say the least, I didn't think sh would let loose this much with important people from her work in front of her. 

One thing that did bother me from this night is that at one point there was an instance she came out of a bedroom with the door closed with another one of her coworkers (male). Now before you go and make a snap judgment that she was automatically cheating, you have to realize that I was not sure how long they were in there and that there was no visible signs that anything had gone on. But it still made me fuming mad. I have not talked to her about this yet as I figure that a flase accusation could push her over the edge in terms of being married to me. So instead, I have been keeping tabs on who she is talking to on her phone. Call it spying, I do. I just check once in a while to see if there is any contact with that guy. There was during our stay up north the next day after that, but the contact was legitimate and I knew the circumstaces. Since then, she has not communicated with him using her phone. That's not to say that she couldn't have set up a shell email or something but considering she would need a computer and this is the only one she uses that has complete access to the internet, I would say that I doubt that is happening. So the anger and fear of her cheating has subsided a bit, but is still there for sure. 

We are still not having sex. We are talking a bit and that part is getting back to normal. But all intimacy in our marriage has disappeared. She hasn't touched me in probably a month. I mean NO TOUCHING. Th other night her back hurt and I offered a back rub to relieve and she accepted. That seemed like a big step for us at that point. I was really excited and could feel the oxytocin running through my veins. So hopefully that helps a bit. But I can tell you that the lack of any touching at all, whether it be a playful slap on the behind, holding hands, cuddling, or whatever, really stirs up a lot of resentment and anger towards her and I don't have a handle on how to control it yet. I realize that it will take time for her and I am willing to be patient. 

Now, Sandy55, to answer some of your questions and to give my last few updates:

-- She tells me that she doesn't masturbate. We've hadthis conversation too when she thought that I was addicted to porn. I always asked what she thought about when she did it (trying to bait her to tell me she fantasizes about men other than me) and she told me that she only thought about me. Yea right! But I couldn't make her budge on that. I find it impossible to believe though. But she has told me that thinking about me thinking about other "*****es" during sex makes her not get off during masturbation too. So this has affected her WHOLE sex life. I don't know if she is masturbating on any sort of basis right now or for the past three months, we don't talk about it in fear that my habits will resurface as the topic of conversation. We have done it in front of each other once and that was it. She seemed comfortable at the time but later explained how weird it was. That's even after how HOT I thought it was and told her so. 

She has told me that in her previous relationships, it was no problem to get off. She claims that the pornography has ruined it for her with me and that she doesn't know if she will ever get over it. I have told her nicely some times and sternly in others that she will have to deal with men looking at pornography whether she's with me or not. When asked what her reaction will be if she leaves me and shacks up with some other dude and finds his pornography, she says she doesn't know but most likely will be the same reaction. So I am not sure what to do here. Her thing is that she thinks that she is "hot" enough (she is a 10 for sure to me...and yes, I tell her every morning when I see her get dressed) and that I (or anyone else for that matter) shouldn't have to look or think about other "*****es" to get off. But when I explain that it's not necessarily the way the other girls look, but the situations, positions, or whatever that they are in that gets me off, she says that it's just the same thing. I am out of ways to try to make her okay with fantasy. At this point, I am just being patient to see if she will begin to get over it. 

To be perfectly honest, I really think that she is lying about lying. I don't think anyone could fake it as good as she claims she does. Reading up entirely on it, there are physiological signs of an orgasm that can't be controlled by the mind. There have been times these don't exist, but there also have been times that they did, and did on multiple occasions in the same session. The spasming of the vaginal muscles, the weak, shaky legs, the flushed skin, the extreme vaginal lubrication are all telltale signs of an orgasm for which she has displayed. There is no way that all of these could be faked at the same time every time. 

So now I need advice from you, Sandy55, on what I should do about that. Why would she lie about lying? Is this payback to make me conscious of whether she has an orgasm during sex so that I think about THAT during sex? Is this a payback situation?

Thanks for all the great advice so far. Hopefully this thread continues and doesn't get lost in the shuffle. I hope some are subscribing.


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## yesterday (Feb 6, 2009)

mlestan-

I feel compelled to try to help you b/c there many parallels b/w your situation and mine. I will quickly highlight below and provide some advice as well.

- wife and I have disagreed on "appropriate" use of porn
- sex started off great but lost its spark around the time we were married; sex is far more important in my marriage to me (standard libido for a healthy man my age) than it is to my wife (self professed low libido and poor body image to boot)
- main sex issue for me is its 95% of the time the same way, the same time/place and the way she wants it - a quick climax for her
- per mutual agreement we are off sex now, but not forever
- I love my wife as much today as I did when we met; she is definitely hot and I tell her so often
- she puts nearly all of her energy into herself, our kids and family life leaving very little for me right now; our 1:1 time is very limited as a result

1) take what you need and leave the rest - I too have found some of the comments on this board to be less than helpful; in addition, I question the motivation of some of the posters who do not seem to be helping with your interests in mind, rather projecting their own issues or agenda. BUT, I have received some great support and advice here that has really helped me deal with my marriage

2) being right vs. being happy - I think you are doing a great job trying to understand your wife's situation, even though it must be terribly difficult to hear her perspective. Keep up the good work with open, honest discussions. Be true to yourself and ask her if she can do the same for you. Although anger, defensiveness and frustration are all valid, normal emotions, they will not lead to good communication. Don't back down, but do treat your wife with respect and dignity. Remember, you love her.

3) Be patient - although you may not see it, it is great that you are working through these issues now, early in marriage. If you want to continue this relationship, put your all into its recovery, while remaining true to yourself. Lots of couples have gotten past the same issues you have and are now enjoying spectacular marriages. Although it is understandable to be scared right now and jump to conclusions about the hopelessness of your marriage, remember these issues take time to resolve. And as Dr. Phil says, "Why rush? You have the rest of your life to be divorced."

4) take care of yourself - yes, its cliche, but I really did not appreciate this until last month, about 5 months into my marriage problems. By truly focusing on me and my values and relationship needs, I am at a point now where I am completely sure of what I need in my relationship, and can say this directly and convincingly. This happened only after I stopped obsessing about fixing my relationship and instead focused on fixing me. This provided a much needed break in the constant tension I was feeling around my wife and now I have a fresh perspective with much less anger and frustration. This makes talking easier and more constructive.

Keep up the good work!


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## mlestan (Jun 4, 2009)

Thank you for the advice, Member (didn't see your handle anywhere).

I have a new problem.

In the past, whenever my wife and I would talk about the lack of sex, the issue of what we would do without it always comes up, especially because of the porn thing. Her response is ALWAYS that she can live without it. But she always says that she worries because if I am not getting it from her that I would get it from someone else. Her exact quote. 

Fast forward to the present. We have been without sex now for nearly 3 months and that comment resonates in my head on a daily basis. Recently, we made a trip up north to relax at the resort we belong to. While there, it just so happened that a bunch of guys from her work were there at the same time. I detailed the night in another post. One thing I want to highlight is the guy that I mentioned she came out of a closed door bedroom with right in front of me. Again, I can't make any snap judgments about what went on. However, when we got home from the vacation, I pieced together her phone records using our billing system online and found out this guy's phone number. So I entered in his name in the records to keep track and relieve myself of the fear that something was going on. So it has been about two weeks now and she is contacting him and he is contacting her on a regular basis. Now realize that they work together but the contacts are made during off-work hours. 

The one that set me over the edge was last night where she talked to him for nearly an hour and a half. She was out of town last night and was supposedly at the bar with her friend from out of town and the friend's significant other. Problem is that during the time they were supposed to be at the bar, I see that texts were sent to and from the friend's boyfriend (who was supposedly supposed to be there). At that same time I was also texting with this guy. So I do realize that it could have been him forwarding my messages to her as they were pretty funny and good for laugh at the bar. Most of the messages were marked as 'received' meaning that she received rather than sent. However, at the end of the string of received, there was one sent. Why would she send a text to someone right in front of her? So that is definitely in question. 

The other thing that makes me question is the fact that this guy that she talked to for an hour and a half at the end of the night is contacting her rather than her contacting him. All of his calls are of the 'received' nature. Some are calls originating from her, but most are from him. Now this guy, as a background, is married with two kids. So that is why I am so torn here.

So I call my wife this morning. The morning after she talked to this guy for an hour and a half and in the meantime, missing and never responding to a text I send her saying 'Goodnight. Love you. Hope you had fun". I ask her how it went, she says that her friend and her boyfriend and her went out to a bar that is near to her work. I ask her the normal, "Was it fun?" type questions but then I start to pry and asked her if anyone else was there. She kinda stepped back on that one and was like "No. Who else would be there?". When I mentioned that it was near to her work and that she might have invited others, she relaxed a bit. BUT SHE NEVER ONCE MENTIONED THAT SHE TALKED TO THIS GUY FOR AN HOUR AND A HALF. Normally in the past, this would be an automatic conversation between us. She would normally tell me about how she talked to this person for so long and what they talked about and such. No. Not this time and not since they have begun exchanging phone calls and texts. Her records also indicate a higher usage of internet, meaning email as the usage is averaging around 14kb and in strange intervals. Which brings me to the next clue. 

She has password protected her phone (iPhone) and changed her password to her email account. So there is no way for me to know EXACTLY what is said in the texts, but only that they exist. About a week ago I tried to break into her phone while she was in the shower. When she got out, she noticed that the phone was used and asked me if I had done anything. I denied it but she insisted that I take a look and that she had nothing to hide. I declined and said that I trusted her and that there was no need for me to look at her phone. She then asked questions that made it clear that she didn't notice the break in attempt while she was in the shower, but just a suspicion rising from the above normal interest I was taking in her phone usage. So I was in the clear there. And I have been careful since to be nondescript when noticing her phone use. I have eyed what I think to be the first 3 numbers of the passcode to get in, but the problem with iPhone is that if you try 3 times and fail, it locks you out and she would know. 

So I am going out of my mind here. My next move will come the next time she stays near work at her sister's on a Friday night. I intend to make a drive-by to make sure that she is where she says she is. Her communication with m that I mentioned before that lets me know inherently that she is there has lacked a bit. Not many phone calls from there but rather texts. So no way for me to hear anything in the background. 

She is driving me out of my mind. I want to trust her, but at this point, without her telling me about all these conversations and then when I bring his name up, still nothing to the effect that they communicate has gotten me VERY suspicious. What holds me together is the fact that he IS married and when I got a chance to talk to him up north, he seems very dedicated to his wife and children. So if this is anything close to an affair for either of them, then it is at the very beginning stages. Because I can't see his wife being alright with him talking to my 25 year old, hot wife from 11:45pm to 1:15am on a Tuesday night.

I need advice for next steps. I cannot call her out on this yet as the evidence that I DO have is lacking and I am afraid that if I do confront this issue, that any progress we have made in the last 3 weeks will be gone. So what I need is advice on a few things:

-- Anyone know how to hack an iPhone without the user knowing and install software that emails you text conversations without the user knowing. And also an app that is invisible that let's me know where the phone is using approximation from cel tower triangulation?

-- If I DO make a drive by and her car is not there, do I automatically call her and accuse or do I hold back and keep it in the evidence pile? Then keep collecting and once I have enough, initiate divorce and take her to the cleaners?

-- And just off subject, I need an answer. If divorce becoms a reality, I would like to know something. My parents footed the bill for our wedding ($30K) not more than 10 months ago. If the marriage dissolves, is there a way for me to sue her or request that she pay half of that cost as it was her wedding too? Because if my worst fears become true, I would like to make sure that I ruin her financially for a long time as part of the reason we are having so much trouble is because of money and the lack of it. 

Thanks for all who are reading. It's important for everyone to know that as of now, I am still optimistic that this communication with this guy is simply platonic or work related. Until I have further evidence, I have no reason to suspect cheating. So be nice in your responses. 

Thanks again.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

mlestan-

If you were having regular sex with your wife, and she were talking to male work collogues that would be one thing, but as she is denying you sex and talking to one, that is quite another - she is giving him more attention than she is giving to you.

Forget about finding out the truth for now - it makes little difference. What you need to be finding out is what is behind her motivation for distancing herself from you and approaching other males. 

What is her main resentment about you?


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