# Violence is the answer....



## djs34 (Feb 13, 2012)

I am 40 and my husband is 44. We have been married for 9 years and together for 12. We have no children, sadly. I have a huge problem with my husband, that led me to say I wished for a divorce last night, and that is his anger/rage/tirades...

I knew this about him when I married him. I used to think of him as Mr Angry, but he was never angry directly at me. I know he'd had a crappy life - an alcoholic father who died when he was a teenager and a mother who he lost in his early 20's to cancer. He was also in the army for ten years, he'd left when we met but not sure if that is relevant or not.

I married him because I fell in love with him and convinced myself that with stability and love that he would leave the anger behind.

We have had our fair share of stresses during our married life, who hasn't? regardless we have still managed to hold it all together. As the partner of someone who is angry all the time you have to work hard and you have to be prepared to turn a blind eye. I have come to realise that life is too short, hence me wanting to leave him but that in itself is incredibly hard and gutting as I do love him very much.

His anger is there on a daily basis. Sometimes it will be little things like the dog getting in the way, or he can't find his car keys, or maybe a bad performance at playing cards (for fun and supposed relaxation with friends of ours) will send him over the edge. His reaction to such things is so OTT. Mostly I now just ignore it. Then there are the times, pretty much a weekly or more event when he really loses it. It is very, very rarely at me directly but I do feel the force of his anger and hate and venom and it can be pretty scary. In these circumsatnces it is often to do with another person who might've pissed him off either that day or even ages ago. He will often start ranting about metering out violence and that violence is the answer - hence the title of my post. I have never known him be physical with another person since we have been together but he has told me stories in the past how he has been. When he is off on one of these tirades there is simply nothing I can do or say. You cannot reason with him. So again I either sit and ignore him or on occasion leave the room for a bit.

He can also flare up a bit in public and say inappropriate things or get really aggressive with other people, say in our local pub. It's not threatening in terms of suggestiong violence etc, he is just plain aggressive in his manner and speech. You can sometimes see people who know him well, and care a lot about him too, think oh 'he's off on one again'.

He has a respectable job, and whilst I think he has on the odd occasion let his anger show there too, has held it together well; a lovely house; and a wife who does love him. We do at the moment have financial worries. They are not desperate, desperate but times are quite hard. All that said he has been like he is through when we have had 'better and less stressful times' too.

I just don't think I can live another 40 years with this man. I worry when he might kick off again. I find it incredibly stressful. I do not fear in anyway for my saftey or that he would ever be violent towards me, it really isn't anything like this. But what it is is very draining and he is dragging me down with him.

Inaddition he has a lot of apathy with regards to our home life. This has got steadilly worse. So I wonder what is wrong with him?; how can I help him?; or is this who he is? and in which case as much as a love him I don't think I can carry on.

Has anyone got any thoughts? ideas? advice?, and lasty thank you, thank you very much if you have read all of this.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

At 44, and after being in the army for 10 years and having the past that your husband had to suffer, I don't understand what you're looking for in him.

Based on your own post, he seems to not be a violent person at all. Just someone with a short temper and perhaps a bold physical presence (that's what army personnel are told to be like).

If you don't love him enough to stay with him, then tell him. He has the right to know. 

And what makes you think you will live 40 more years with him? You're looking waaaaaaaay too far down the road. 

I think you're just bored.


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## djs34 (Feb 13, 2012)

Gosh thanks for that!

No I am not bored. I think that I thought I could change him, a fatal mistake that is mine and not his. His tirades are VERY scary when he has them. It is not nice to live with. I dream of being on my own and having peace of mind. That is not healthy. BUT yes I do love him and for sure I cannot say how long I will live for but whatever time I have left I am not sure I want to spend it with him.

Not really relevant because I a have come to accept the past but he has cheated on me twice, for which he was very sorry for, both times.

I just now want an uncomplicated and happy life, even if that is me on my own for the rest of it, and I am totally fine with that. Maybe that is very selfish of me. Maybe I should feel bad for thinking the things that I am thinking.


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

How about therapy... either IC or MC? 
I am betting he isn't the kind that wants to go, but maybe if you go maybe you can get some answers.


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## djs34 (Feb 13, 2012)

Mamatomany said:


> How about therapy... either IC or MC?
> I am betting he isn't the kind that wants to go, but maybe if you go maybe you can get some answers.


We tried MC a couple of years ago, you are right, he didn't want to progress it beyond the one session.

Am going to see if I can get him to address his anger though, again, again, again but maybe with with very recent events he might consider this.

Thank you Mamatomany


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

> Not really relevant because I a have come to accept the past but he has cheated on me twice, for which he was very sorry for, both times.


You left that very important information out of your first post. You may think it's irrelevant, but it's actually more relevant than everything else you said about him.



> I dream of being on my own and having peace of mind.


If being alone sounds like having a peace of mind to you, then I suspect you're scared of your husband and don't feel safe with him. Is that true?


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

If you only go to MC once there's no "C" going on. It would take a number of visits to be able to get work done. The first visit is an interview to see if you all and the therapist are compatible so to speak. Ask for at least a 4 wk commitment with a counselor you both can agree on. Even if it is some one/one w/i that 4 wks. 

If he has had more anger than normal it may be a great time to present the idea, esp if you are looking at leaving.


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## djs34 (Feb 13, 2012)

I left it out synthetic as it was a horrid part of my life and I have tried very hard to move on from it all and with some success. I guess though it does point to perhaps a relationship that has not been happy for whatever reason - he could never give me an answer as to 'why' he did what he did. I am clueless to this day. I know though that he does love me very much indeed.

Not so much scared just less stress. I think he has worn me down. There have been times that I am scared he will do something to another person. He has been a bit too heavy handed with our dogs on the odd occasion.


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## djs34 (Feb 13, 2012)

I understand that Mamatomany, it's just 'making' him to it somehow...


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## djs34 (Feb 13, 2012)

A quick update... We had the best chat of all our married life last night. For the first time he didn't resent the chat or wish to end it, and was calm and really open.

He recognises very much that he has a problem with his anger and can see why I would be upset about it and sometimes even scared. He thinks it has lost him job opportunities in the past and friends, and knows and understands why he could lose me because of it too.

He offered without any prompting to see someone professional about it and to try and understand 'why' he has so much anger and how he can control and live with it. I am so relieved I can't tell you.

So it's not over, yet but we need to take things very very slow and see if we can work this out and find a happier place for both of us in this marriage.

Thank you for your help and support and good luck to you all.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

I'm glad you talked.

Repeatedly show him affection and remind him that "love" always gets better results than "anger". 

It won't be easy. He will lapse from time to time but if he practices to control his anger (professional help will have him do that), he will eventually get a hang of it.

Good luck to both of you.


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## Mamatomany (Jan 10, 2012)

djs34 said:


> A quick update... We had the best chat of all our married life last night. For the first time he didn't resent the chat or wish to end it, and was calm and really open.
> 
> He recognises very much that he has a problem with his anger and can see why I would be upset about it and sometimes even scared. He thinks it has lost him job opportunities in the past and friends, and knows and understands why he could lose me because of it too.
> 
> ...


So happy for you 
That's great you didn't have to mention it and I hope he follows through soon (promising since he brought it up).


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## djs34 (Feb 13, 2012)

Thank you for your replies and support.

Well he has done a bit of a U-turn and decided he's AOK and doesn't need help and that the problem is all me. He has agreed to go back to MC, and we have an appointment next Tuesday. I am currently trying to get a mutual friend, who my husband has a lot of respect for, and who is a cognitive behavioural therapist, to persuade him to talk to someon professional.

This weekend was really hard for various reasons. I decided that I need some space and a friend of mine has a small property on their farm coming back up for lease at the end of March. It is close by where we live. I told my husband that I am considering a trial speration and that would give us BOTH time to work on our problems; learn to be happy again; and hopefully solve one or two things and fall back in love. So not the end, just some breathing space. He seemed to accept this but was not happy.

This morning I get a call from the wife of the friend, who is lovely, and didn't want to upset me but though I should know that my husband called them on his way to work and just went "off on one". They could hardly understand him as he was ranting so much. In summary he told them that they wer not in no uncertain terms to give me the house and that they were causing a divorce etc etc.

I feel terrible for them, although they were very sympathetic and said if I needed anywhere to go in the meantime I could stay with them - I think they were worried for me. I also feel terrible for my husband, and lastly I feel a little scared....


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## gonefishin (Oct 7, 2011)

He sounds like he has some personality disorder. He needs treatment and medication.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

Sounds like he's a huge bully. When the temp cools can you talk to your friends about still getting that place?
My H has some similar traits as your and it is embarassing and ridiculous. He'll go off on a stranger for walking in front of him while he's carrying our son? Like seriously? Wtf? Big hairy deal. A lady behind him cleared her throat, he turns and bellows, 'wtf is your problem'. After the fact, he's proud and thinks he's cool and respected. In truth people think he's a wack job and feel sorry for me. Not sure what to tell you, but if your friends would still rent to you, I would try to keep that place. It sounds lovely and peaceful.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

DJS, welcome to the TAM forum. I'm so sorry to hear that you are experiencing such a painful situation with your H.


djs34 said:


> I have a huge problem with my husband ...and that is his anger/rage/tirades. ... So I wonder what is wrong with him?


The behaviors you describe -- temper tantrums, lack of impulse control, verbal abuse, blame-shifting, black-white thinking, bullying, and frequent anger -- are classic traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder), which my exW has. Of course, only a professional can determine whether his BPD traits are so severe as to meet 100% of the diagnostic criteria for having the full-blown disorder. 

Yet, even when they fall well below that level, such traits can make your life miserable and undermine a marriage. Moreover, it is not difficult to spot strong occurrences of these traits in a man you've known for 12 years. There is nothing subtle about traits such as verbal abuse, temper tantrums, and black-white thinking. I therefore suggest you read about BPD traits so you are able to spot the red flags. I also suggest that you see a clinical psychologist -- on your own for a visit or two -- to obtain a professional opinion.


> how can I help him?; or is this who he is?


If he is a BPDer (i.e., has the traits at a moderate to strong level), you cannot help him because, as you say, "this is who he is." A BPDer has been that way since early childhood. He therefore is the only person who can make a change and he must want to do so very badly. Sadly, it is rare for a BPDer to have the self awareness and ego strength to stay in therapy long enough to make a difference.


> I know he'd had a crappy life.


A recent large-scale study (pub. 2008) found that 70% of the BPDers reported having been abused or abandoned in childhood. Granted, most abused children do NOT develop BPD. The abuse nonetheless GREATLY raises the risk of doing so.


> His anger is there on a daily basis. Sometimes it will be little things like the dog getting in the way.


If he is a BPDer, he has been carrying enormous anger and hurt inside since early childhood. Because the anger is always there right under the skin, you don't have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. Rather, you only have to say or do some minor thing to TRIGGER it.


> As the partner of someone who is angry all the time you have to work hard and you have to be prepared to turn a blind eye.


Your frequent "turning a blind eye" is also called "walking on eggshells." This is why the #1 best-selling BPD book (targeted to the partners) is called _Stop Walking on Eggshells._


> it is often to do with another person who might've pissed him off either that day or even ages ago. He will often start ranting about metering out violence and that violence is the answer.


DJS, what you are describing is called "black-white thinking." It is one of the hallmarks of BPDers. It is most evident when a BPDer categorizes everyone (including himself) as "with me" or "against me" -- i.e., as "all good" or "all bad." Likewise, everyone is either "right" or "wrong." Because there is no middle category or gray area, he will re-categorize someone from one polar extreme to the other -- in just ten seconds -- based only on a minor infraction, tone of voice, or idle statement. This is why a BPDer can instantly flip from liking someone for months to suddenly hating them.

This all-or-nothing thinking also will be apparent in the frequent use of extreme expressions like "I _always_..." and "you _never_...." BPDers have this distorted perception of other people because they are extremely uncomfortable with ambiguities and experiencing strong mixed feelings. Because they never developed a coherent, unified sense of who they are as individuals, they are intolerant of the notion that someone is an essentially good person who occasionally does or thinks bad things.


> You cannot reason with him.


As soon as a BPDer's anger is triggered, he puts his inner child fully in control of his actions. And, because that triggering takes only a few seconds, you have only that short time in which to have a calm, rational conversation. Hence, within a few seconds, you are left trying to reason with the young child -- being completely cut off from the logical, rational "adult" part of his mind.

Does this seem strange? It shouldn't because we all tend to be that way when we experience intense feelings. Our perceptions of other peoples' intentions become distorted by our strong emotions (e.g., anger or infatuation). This is why, when we are very angry, we all know to wait until we have time to cool down before taking action. BPDers have a much worse problem with this because, first, they are unable to regulate their emotions and thus experience intense feelings far more frequently. And, second, they are not good at "waiting until they cool down" because they lack impulse control. The reason is that their emotional development is frozen at about the level of a 3 or 4 year old child.


> Well he has done a bit of a U-turn and decided he's AOK and doesn't need help and that the problem is all me.


If your H has moderate to strong BPD traits, such U-turns are his way of life. This is the way emotionally unstable people behave.


> He has agreed to go back to MC, and we have an appointment next Tuesday.


If he has strong BPD traits, the MC likely will be a waste of time because his issues go far beyond a simple lack of communication skills. In that case, he would need years of treatment from a clinical psychologist. Yet, if his traits are mild, the MC may help to persuade him that IC is needed.

Keep in mind that every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all nine of the BPD traits, albeit at a low level if they are emotionally healthy. These traits become a problem only when they are strong enough -- as may be the case with your H -- to undermine a person's ability to sustain friendships and a marriage. Hence, BPDers differ from the rest of us only in degree, not in kind.


> Has anyone got any advice?


DJS, I don't know whether your H has most of the nine BPD traits at a strong level. I've never met the man. Yet, if he does, I firmly believe that you can easily spot all the red flags if you take time to read about them.  Before you graduated high school, you already could identify the selfish and very grandiose classmates -- without knowing how to diagnose Narcissistic PD. 

Likewise, you could identify the class drama queen -- without being able to diagnose Histrionic PD. You could spot the kids having no respect for laws or other peoples' property or feelings -- without diagnosing Antisocial PD. And you could recognize the very shy and over-sensitive classmates -- without diagnosing Avoidant PD. Similarly, you will be able to spot strong BPD traits when they occur.

I therefore suggest you read my description of these traits in Maybe's thread at My list of hell!. If that discussion rings a bell and the traits seem to describe your H's behavior, I would be glad to discuss them with you. I also would be happy to point you to a good book and excellent online resources. Take care, DJS.


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## djs34 (Feb 13, 2012)

Oneman - I said before that I didn't mention him cheating on me as I have tried so hard to move on from there and keep the past in the past. I think in reality there are a few problems with our relationship a) the past cheating that he has done b) his apathy and c) his anger and aggression. It is the last of these that for some wierd reason I find the hardest to live with. It's almost like that after 12 years I've come to the end of my tether, that I just can't cope or accept it anymore. It might be that having reached 40 and childless that the 'glue' that held us together - the hope of children / the distraction of trying for children has gone and with it my ability to over look the other fundamentally bigger issues in our relationship. Does that make any sense?

Golfergirl I'm sorry your partner is a bully. I think like you that sometimes others feel sorry for me when mine goes 'off on one' too :-( I have spoken to our friends and they say I can still have the property if I need it, which is good.

Uptown - thank you for all that amazing info. I can see some similarities for sure. I think it is very hard to be certain. I know he needs to see someone, and me too. It's just making that happen.

I want us both to be happy, with or without each other, that's all I know tonight.


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## djs34 (Feb 13, 2012)

Does someone who has cheated on you on more than one occasion, is he likely to do so again?

Does someone who has anger issues manage to address these, or is he who he is and that's that?

These are funamentally the two questions that I need to feel certain I am happy with the answers before it's too late, before I make a decision to stay in this until death do us part....

and the worst thing about it is that I DO love him, very much indeed.


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