# Is this the end?



## bossman71 (Dec 27, 2012)

Hi-

I have been doing a lot of research here and have received some helpful advice. I am just trying to figure out if its too late.
Some background first. My wife and I are both in our early 40's with 2 kids (12 & 14). We have been married for about 20 years. A couple of months ago, I had a life changing experience. I witnessed my wife showing affection to one of her co-workers at a party. I went into complete panic mode. I started doing everything I could to make her feel important and wanted. Well, this backfired. It just made her realize how much I hadn't been there for her in all the years of our marriage. She continued what amounted to an EA for the next month or so. I paid close attention to her texts and emails. At first, it was light flirting, but then it progressed to things like "I have been thinking about you" and "I can't get you off my mind", etc. This is where I lost it. I confronted her and laid down the boundary. She has not texted or emailed him since, but she does work with him 5 days a week. But all of this made me take a good look at myself. I have been selfish, controlling, and manipulative. I never stood up for her or defended her. I choose my friends and mother first. I realize all the wrong things that I have done and have made so many changes in my life. But she is telling me it's too late. The damage has been done. I have broken her heart for the last time. I did many of the wrong things to get her back. I am now doing the 180 list. I do love her, and not just for the convenience. My relationship with my kids has improved greatly, and they are responding to it in a very positive way. My W has noticed my "change" as well, but she is not responding to it. She says that she wants to miss me again...a feeling that she hasn't had in years. I know that this just takes time, and I am trying to be soo patient. This is the hardest thing I have ever had to deal with, but I will never stop trying. She has trouble letting go of the past issues. She won't go to counseling with me. I even suggested going to the Marriage Boot Camp. I am running out of options here. Thank you in advance for any advice.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

You have given her all the control. Take it back.

The 180 is good, but it's for YOU, not to try and win her back. It's so that you realize you do NOT need her to be happy. Be happy for YOU.

Going into panic mode and whining and pleading isn't going to get you anywhere.

My bet is that she's still cheating on you, and will continue to do so. Saying she wants to miss you again - sounds to me like she wants to be with OM.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

Here's a simple fact: If she stays in that job, prepare yourself for divorce. Not trying to be as ass, but it will head there if she doesn't leave.

You need to do a workplace exposure and ASAP!


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

The affair has gone underground.

No begging or pleading to her.

No crying in front of her. Ever.
Even if you're dying inside.

As mentioned by Hope1964, the 180 is for you - not her.
Do the 180 for the right reasons and it will be life-changing.

Man up. 
Take control of your emotions and the situation.


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## JMGrey (Dec 19, 2012)

3putt said:


> Here's a simple fact: If she stays in that job, prepare yourself for divorce. Not trying to be as ass, but it will head there if she doesn't leave.
> 
> You need to do a workplace exposure and ASAP!


Agreed. A lot of BS really fall into denial about their WS's behavior, when they'd do better to treat every moment that the WS isn't with them like a retroactive crime scene. As with all crimes, it boils means, motive and opportunity. The motive is the obvious EA going on. The means and motive are the same: she and the OM share a workplace. So long as they have the opportunity to interact, especially where they can do so without your direct knowledge, the affair will continue. The chiefest and most immediate boundary that needs to be established when an affair is discovered is no contact, under any circumstance. Tell her she needs to find other opportunities immediately. If she's resistant, then you'll know that her priority is the OM and not you.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

bossman71 said:


> Hi-
> 
> I have been doing a lot of research here and have received some helpful advice. I am just trying to figure out if its too late.
> Some background first. My wife and I are both in our early 40's with 2 kids (12 & 14). We have been married for about 20 years. A couple of months ago, I had a life changing experience. I witnessed my wife showing affection to one of her co-workers at a party. I went into complete panic mode. I started doing everything I could to make her feel important and wanted. Well, this backfired. It just made her realize how much I hadn't been there for her in all the years of our marriage. She continued what amounted to an EA for the next month or so. I paid close attention to her texts and emails. At first, it was light flirting, but then it progressed to things like "I have been thinking about you" and "I can't get you off my mind", etc. This is where I lost it. I confronted her and laid down the boundary. She has not texted or emailed him since, but she does work with him 5 days a week. But all of this made me take a good look at myself. I have been selfish, controlling, and manipulative. I never stood up for her or defended her. I choose my friends and mother first. I realize all the wrong things that I have done and have made so many changes in my life. But she is telling me it's too late. The damage has been done. I have broken her heart for the last time. I did many of the wrong things to get her back. I am now doing the 180 list. I do love her, and not just for the convenience. My relationship with my kids has improved greatly, and they are responding to it in a very positive way. My W has noticed my "change" as well, but she is not responding to it. She says that she wants to miss me again...a feeling that she hasn't had in years. I know that this just takes time, and I am trying to be soo patient. This is the hardest thing I have ever had to deal with, but I will never stop trying. She has trouble letting go of the past issues. She won't go to counseling with me. I even suggested going to the Marriage Boot Camp. I am running out of options here. Thank you in advance for any advice.


I will caution you that you should not take everything your wife says to heart until you are in confirmed reconciliation. WS tend to exaggerate the past , or completely rewriting history to attempt to justify an affair. I am glad you are working on yourself but make sure she is working hard too. If she isn't working hard then you're doing it wrong. She cheated she has to work for the marriage. as messed up as you may have been did you push her to start the EA? Did you make her start the EA? NO she did and you need to make sure she isn't just playing you against yourself to avoid confrontation and dealing with the damage she has done.


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## bossman71 (Dec 27, 2012)

Thank you for the quick replies. I only begged twice, and that was over a month ago. I haven't cried to her in at least that long. Her workplace knows about the flirting, so its not a big secret. I told her recently that her EA allowed her to get back at me since I was such an ass for so many years. She doesn't think it evens things up. The problem that I'm having is that I have been controlling the situation for so long, that this is what caused the EA. I really want to make this work...especially for our kids.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

bossman71 said:


> Thank you for the quick replies. I only begged twice, and that was over a month ago. I haven't cried to her in at least that long. Her workplace knows about the flirting, so its not a big secret. I told her recently that her EA allowed her to get back at me since I was such an ass for so many years. She doesn't think it evens things up. The problem that I'm having is that I have been controlling the situation for so long, that this is what caused the EA. I really want to make this work...especially for our kids.


Hey - did you make her cheat?? Did you give her permission?? NO you did NOT. So why do you keep saying it's YOUR fault she did it?!?! You have GOT to STOP thinking that way.

You and she both had four choices
- cheat
- divorce
- work to make things better
- do nothing

She chose to cheat. Do you hear that? She CHOSE. SHE made a CHOICE. The way you were acting impacted your marriage, but it did NOT make her cheat. A crappy marriage does not equal cheating. Did you cheat??


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

3putt said:


> Here's a simple fact: If she stays in that job, prepare yourself for divorce. Not trying to be as ass, but it will head there if she doesn't leave.
> 
> You need to do a workplace exposure and ASAP!


As simple as that.

You need not words from your wife, but actions.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

She needs to end ALL contact with OM. That means either he finds another job or she does. If she isn't willing to do that, all the love for your kids in the world isn't going to make a difference in the fact your marriage is a sham.

Do you think your kids want a cuckold father, or a happy one apart from his cheating wife??


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

bossman71 said:


> She doesn't think it evens things up.


This just burns my butt. Another cheater who thinks the world revolves around them and is willing to throw the BS under the bus. What an unbelievable sense of entitlement.


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

bossman71 said:


> *She doesn't think it evens things up.*


Evens things up?

Does she want revenge for you having your faults? Does love ever go on vendettas? This is wrong, no matter what the reason. It all begins with "innocent" flirting, compliments, then touching, and constant boundary testing and breaking until "I don't know how it got so far, I don't know why or how, it just happened."

Seriously, evening things up should be left for teenagers. 

Tell your wife no matter what your faults are she is doing wrong and it cannot be justified by you being a jerk all your life. She needs to cease and desist!


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

old timer said:


> The affair has gone underground.
> 
> No begging or pleading to her.
> 
> ...


Yep this is on the money. Go to MC tell her you are going tell her she can go up to her. I am a betting man if she refuses to go things are farther along then you think. If you want to fix your marriage you have to be willing to lose your wife. She needs to know you are ready willing and able to walk


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

bossman71 said:


> Her workplace knows about the flirting, so its not a big secret.


How do you know this to be true? Did _*she*_ tell you they know?


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## JMGrey (Dec 19, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> This just burns my butt. Another cheater who thinks the world revolves around them and is willing to throw the BS under the bus. What an unbelievable sense of entitlement.


:iagree:

A marriage is not a penalty shoot-out in a soccer match. Did you treat your wife in a less-than-ideal manner? You seem to admit that you did, but this does not give her license to step outside the marriage. If you were not giving your marriage the effort it deserved, it was up to her to call you on it, not try to live it with another man.


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## bossman71 (Dec 27, 2012)

3putt said:


> How do you know this to be true? Did _*she*_ tell you they know?


I found it in a text from one of her female co-workers.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

bossman71 said:


> I found it in a text from one of her female co-workers.


Ok so expose to her supervisor with a formal complaint or HR and tell them you are keeping your legal options open.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

You sre getting solid advice. 

Yes you had faults. Cheating is not the solution.

Whatever you did wrong in your marriage she is magnifying x10. But cheating is x10,000. So, she's right that "it's not even". But she's wrong - she is way, way, way worst than you. 

You hurt her - but she's punishing the whole family not just you. Your children will suffer more because of her actions.

I agree that het affair isn't finished. Not by a long shot. Lay down the law. If she really believes the marriage is done then tell her not to be a devious coward.

Tell her to file. You can't make her be a good wife. But you don't have to live with a cheater who betrays you so coldly.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

tom67 said:


> Ok so expose to her supervisor with a formal complaint or HR and tell them you are keeping your legal options open.


This. We can help you with workplace exposure letters.

BTW...DON'T MENTION THIS SITE AND NEVER TELEGRAPH YOUR PLANS TO HER. JUST DO!


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## bossman71 (Dec 27, 2012)

I wrote a "cease and desist" letter to the OM several weeks ago. He has already put in a request for a transfer to an office in another state. I'm not 100% sure that its over between them...but I really hope that it is.


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## JMGrey (Dec 19, 2012)

bossman71 said:


> I wrote a "cease and desist" letter to the OM several weeks ago. He has already put in a request for a transfer to an office in another state. I'm not 100% sure that its over between them...but I really hope that it is.


They see each other at work = it's not over.

Don't kid yourself.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

bossman71 said:


> I wrote a "cease and desist" letter to the OM several weeks ago. He has already put in a request for a transfer to an office in another state. I'm not 100% sure that its over between them...but I really hope that it is.


No no no no. SHE needs to write him the letter, and YOU need to tell the HR dept/boss.

Read the newbie link in my signature.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

She also needs to prove to you that it's ended. You should have full and complete access to her computer, emails, cell phone, bank accounts, cell records, work emails - EVERYthing. Voluntarily by her. If she isn't willing, she hasn't stopped.


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## bossman71 (Dec 27, 2012)

Here is something I had trouble responding to. After I confronted her EA (which I refer to as cheating), she responded with "You have cheated on me with your friends and your mother by choosing them over me!"


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## bossman71 (Dec 27, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> She also needs to prove to you that it's ended. You should have full and complete access to her computer, emails, cell phone, bank accounts, cell records, work emails - EVERYthing. Voluntarily by her. If she isn't willing, she hasn't stopped.


I have full access to everything.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

bossman71 said:


> Here is something I had trouble responding to. After I confronted her EA (which I refer to as cheating), she responded with "You have cheated on me with your friends and your mother by choosing them over me!"


Classic gaslighting. Read the newbie link in my signature. You'll see a LOT of your wife in there.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

bossman71 said:


> I have full access to everything.


What is her attitude toward this?? Does she WANT you to have access because she knows you need it, or did you have to demand it and make it a condition?


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

bossman71 said:


> Here is something I had trouble responding to. After I confronted her EA (which I refer to as cheating), she responded with "You have cheated on me with your friends and your mother by choosing them over me!"


Have you been flirting romantically with your friend and your mother?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

bossman71 said:


> Hi-
> 
> I have been doing a lot of research here and have received some helpful advice. I am just trying to figure out if its too late.
> Some background first. My wife and I are both in our early 40's with 2 kids (12 & 14). We have been married for about 20 years. A couple of months ago, I had a life changing experience. I witnessed my wife showing affection to one of her co-workers at a party. I went into complete panic mode. I started doing everything I could to make her feel important and wanted. Well, this backfired. It just made her realize how much I hadn't been there for her in all the years of our marriage. She continued what amounted to an EA for the next month or so. I paid close attention to her texts and emails. At first, it was light flirting, but then it progressed to things like "I have been thinking about you" and "I can't get you off my mind", etc. This is where I lost it. I confronted her and laid down the boundary. She has not texted or emailed him since, but she does work with him 5 days a week. But all of this made me take a good look at myself. I have been selfish, controlling, and manipulative. I never stood up for her or defended her. I choose my friends and mother first. I realize all the wrong things that I have done and have made so many changes in my life. But she is telling me it's too late. The damage has been done. I have broken her heart for the last time. I did many of the wrong things to get her back. I am now doing the 180 list. I do love her, and not just for the convenience. My relationship with my kids has improved greatly, and they are responding to it in a very positive way. My W has noticed my "change" as well, but she is not responding to it. She says that she wants to miss me again...a feeling that she hasn't had in years. I know that this just takes time, and I am trying to be soo patient. This is the hardest thing I have ever had to deal with, but I will never stop trying. She has trouble letting go of the past issues. She won't go to counseling with me. I even suggested going to the Marriage Boot Camp. I am running out of options here. Thank you in advance for any advice.


Realize the 180 is when you are done with the marriage. It is to go though withdrawal from your spouse so you can move on. So this seems to be the worst thing you could do.

Secondly she needs to change her job so she can go through withdrawal. Frankly why you stood by watching your wife get emotionally involved was a very bad idea.

Also realize many BSs blame themselves. This is not helpful right now. You cannot work on the marriage while she is still in contact with this guy.

So after she goes NC and after she goes through withdrawal then you can work meaninginfully on the marriage. In the meantime you can work on yourself. Stop enabling her affair. This is tough love. Her betrayal to you is 100% on her. Sure be a better husband. That starts now with killing this affair. Also the withdrawal clock restarts with ANY contact of any kind. Right now you are looking weak to her for putting up with her cake eating. Stop that.

Your wife has impaired judgement right now. She has to go through withdrawal. If she refuses to change jobs expose the affair.


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

bossman71 said:


> Here is something I had trouble responding to. After I confronted her EA (which I refer to as cheating), she responded with "*You have cheated on me with your friends and your mother by choosing them over me!*"


Immaturity. From what you have told us you have not broken your marriage vows. She is on the brink of an EA and can instantly fall into a PA.

She needs to see the light. Wake her up. Expose and 180 like A MONTH AGO!

The Healing Heart: The 180


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

walkonmars said:


> Y
> 
> I agree that het affair isn't finished. Not by a long shot. Lay down the law. If she really believes the marriage is done then tell her not to be a devious coward.
> 
> Tell her to file. You can't make her be a good wife. But you don't have to live with a cheater who betrays you so coldly.


:iagree:

Having marriage problems is not a license to cheat. If she had such an issue with you, and you were just so awful, then she should have divorced you before deciding to live the single life. 

Instead, she wants to cake-eat. You help pay the bills while she has her affair. It's selfish, cruel, and cowardly.

Don't necessarily believe the evil blaming game she is playing either. Maybe you weren't the ideal spouse, but WS's definitely exaggerate the bad qualities of their loyal spouse in order to justify the affair in their own mind. They can bamboozle you to the point where you believe them. She probably bad-mouths you to everyone at the office. Rewrites your marital history, etc.

Doesn't sound like she's remorseful, so R is not even a possibility at this point. You have to go hardcore and file for divorce. See if it shakes her out of the fog. 

Go 180, start living for *you*. 

Be strong.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

CleanJerkSnatch said:


> Immaturity. From what you have told us you have not broken your marriage vows. She is on the brink of an EA and can instantly fall into a PA.
> 
> She needs to see the light. Wake her up. Expose and 180 like A MONTH AGO!
> 
> The Healing Heart: The 180


Who was it that said an EA is nothing more than a PA that has yet to happen.

True words!


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## JMGrey (Dec 19, 2012)

bossman71 said:


> Here is something I had trouble responding to. After I confronted her EA (which I refer to as cheating), she responded with "You have cheated on me with your friends and your mother by choosing them over me!"


What your wife is saying is that she doesn't like that everything in your marriage and communal life isn't about her. The same personality that demands constant and undivided attention is the same one that will seek it elsewhere, marriage be damned, if it decides that it isn't getting what it wants.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

bossman71 said:


> Thank you for the quick replies. I only begged twice, and that was over a month ago. I haven't cried to her in at least that long. Her workplace knows about the flirting, so its not a big secret. I told her recently that her EA allowed her to get back at me since I was such an ass for so many years. She doesn't think it evens things up. The problem that I'm having is that I have been controlling the situation for so long, that this is what caused the EA. I really want to make this work...especially for our kids.


Wow. Horrible move. An EA is not a way of getting even for anything. Why would you even suggest such a thing. 

Are you pullingng our collective legs here? You tell your wife she is ok to have an affair to get even. So what, you have not been the ideal husband. Who is. So you want to be punished. You are saying that affairs are justified. That is the messagew you are delivering. So if you were an @$$, how many men can she havce sex with to make it even?

Marriage is not about getting even my friend. I suspect you have not been this @$$ you say you were. I suggest that you are being very passive here and a conflict avoider. You are afraid to assert yourself or are just ambivalent. There is no justification for having an affair. You suggesting as much basically told your wife you deserve to be dominated by another man. That this other guy has the right to bed your wife.

Why are you working so hard justify your wife having an affair with another man? You are doing everything wrong so far.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> Realize the 180 is when you are done with the marriage. It is to go though withdrawal from your spouse so you can move on. So this seems to be the worst thing you could do.
> 
> Secondly she needs to change her job so she can go through withdrawal. Frankly why you stood by watching your wife get emotionally involved was a very bad idea.
> 
> ...


I respectfully disagree that the 180 is only for when you have decided to end the marriage. 

It can used to give you the confidence that you can and will move forward w/o your spouse, but doesn't mean you are done. It IS meant to show the WS that you are resolved to move beyond the marriage as it is in it's current form.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

Your wife is having an affair and your whole post is about the things you did wrong.

You need a 180 for your mind.

If she told me she wanted to miss me again I would pack her bags and call her a cab.


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## old timer (Nov 23, 2012)

east2west said:


> If she told me she wanted to miss me again I would pack her bags and call her a cab.


Best. Post. Ever.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Read every post again and again.
You are acting out of dispair and she sees it. And she just doesn't care. Not one bit. 

When her boyfriend dumps her she will return. So be passive and wait patiently if you want. But know this: now that she knows how you bend to her will, she will find another boy toy the very next time you don't do the dishes to her satisfaction. It won't end. Unless you put a stop to this forcefully and decisevely.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Read Entropy3000's post above and take it to heart. 

You are in shock and you are acting very weak. 

You don't want to lose her. 

I know the feeling - I've been there. 

Is your head pulsing with anxiety? Are you scared about your world crumbling around you? OK, that can be a natural response but it will not do you any good. You are giving way too much power to your wife and OM. I did this too (I was in shock) and it really destroyed me mentally. You have to take a stand. She will not respect you if you don't and she will think she's done the right thing. You're giving her license to think that. STOP. NOW. Even if she leaves you, you will have your dignity and pride. That increases the chances she will come back. Don't let her be the one to leave on her own schedule. You'll be in the worst place ever: limbo. Those who go there come back zombified.


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## bossman71 (Dec 27, 2012)

Of course I don't want to lose someone that I've spent over 25 years with. This is exactly what I am going through. I have felt stronger lately though.


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## bossman71 (Dec 27, 2012)

So I should kick her to the curb if she can't let go of the past and can't forgive me for my wrongs? I want to work on our marriage. I can get past the EA as long as that's all it was. I have no way to prove that it didn't escalate into a PA. I do know that she is home with me and the kids when she isn't at work. I track her whereabouts everyday. She is so busy at work, that she doesn't even leave for lunch. I always make sure at least one kid is with her when she has to go to the store, etc. I don't see how she could communicate with the OM outside of work. She has a very good job in a career that is going places. I don't want her to quit her job. I work all day too, but we really need this double income to support the family.


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## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

bossman71 said:


> So I should kick her to the curb if she can't let go of the past and can't forgive me for my wrongs?


Absolutely.



> I want to work on our marriage. I can get past the EA as long as that's all it was. I have no way to prove that it didn't escalate into a PA.


Doesn't matter whether it's an EA or a PA. What matters is what it signifies; SHE DOES NOT LOVE YOU. Otherwise she wouldn't do this. Eventually you will need to forgive her for her affair but if you do it too soon, too easily, without conditions, you lose all of her respect and any hope of a successful R.



> I do know that she is home with me and the kids when she isn't at work. I track her whereabouts everyday. She is so busy at work, that she doesn't even leave for lunch. I always make sure at least one kid is with her when she has to go to the store, etc. I don't see how she could communicate with the OM outside of work. She has a very good job in a career that is going places. I don't want her to quit her job. I work all day too, but we really need this double income to support the family.


Then she should be able to find another similar job where she will not be in touch with the OM for work purposes. She can probably get a pay raise too. The risk is that she will pretend to be looking for another job while staying in her current job to keep the EA going.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

You do not NEED her, or anything from her. You don't have a marriage. You do not know anything. You are enabling her by not taking a stand here. Read my story. I kicked my husband out on D day and it was the best thing I ever did.

Your wife doesn't sound to me like she is remorseful at all. Have you read the newbie link in my sig? In there, true remorse is explained.

Getting her to admit she did something wrong is not 'letting go of the past'. It's admitting she did something WRONG. And what the heck does SHE have to forgive YOU for? :scratchhead:

Sigh.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

old timer said:


> I respectfully disagree that the 180 is only for when you have decided to end the marriage.
> 
> It can used to give you the confidence that you can and will move forward w/o your spouse, but doesn't mean you are done. It IS meant to show the WS that you are resolved to move beyond the marriage as it is in it's current form.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh you are free to disagree all you want. The 180 is not intended to save the marriage though.

He has not yet taken a stand. He has been too quick to enable and appease. Him doing the 180 right now is him pouting and sulking and not standing up for his marriage. He will come off as ambivalent and his 180 will just empower her further and she will use it as rationalization.

No indeed not time for the 180 yet. He must first make a stand telling her this relationship is unacceptable and he needs to consult with a lawyer.

The 180 is fine ... once he has taken the stand and told her this is unacceptable. So far he has told her he deserves it.
He should not be nicing her out of the affair for sure. He needs to prepare to move on indeed. But he has not yet fought for his marriage.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

bossman71 said:


> So I should kick her to the curb if she can't let go of the past and can't forgive me for my wrongs? I want to work on our marriage. I can get past the EA as long as that's all it was. I have no way to prove that it didn't escalate into a PA. I do know that she is home with me and the kids when she isn't at work. I track her whereabouts everyday. She is so busy at work, that she doesn't even leave for lunch. I always make sure at least one kid is with her when she has to go to the store, etc. I don't see how she could communicate with the OM outside of work. She has a very good job in a career that is going places. I don't want her to quit her job. I work all day too, but we really need this double income to support the family.



You don't kick her out nor do make any drastic changes to the marriage or decisions that will effect it.

Hard experiences tells us that while you think the OM is out of the picture , they have likely taken this underground. Those in affairs and who have been caught tend to become exceptionally good at hiding the renewed contact.

The first part of the processes if to ensure the affair is dead and exposure is your most effective weapon.

Speak to her parents and siblings and let them know she is in an affair. Do the same with yours. Ask both sides if the family for help in saving your marriage.

Your wife is going to demonise you and make up all sort of stuff to find an excuse for her affair. 

This is a tough one, tell your children the truth , they will know something is up and are not fools.

Write a letter to HR , you cannot wait for the OM to leave as every day they are at work they have an opportunity to continue enabling the affair . One of them must leave - today not tomorrow.

Find out who the OM's parents, siblings, friends etc are , use facebook if you can and expose the hell out of him . 

Do all this in a very short space period and do not tell her of your actions , be prepared for a negative reaction from your wife , be firm be resolute and your standard answer is your fighting for your marriage . 

Your require your wife to write a no contact letter and follow a set of steps to protect your marriage not just from this affair but future ones.

As for yourself , be calm, be measured , think before you speak, listen to her and give her a safe place to talk. When taking action be decisive .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html

Read the above link, it has guidelines and templates and will answer many of your questions

Fear is your worst enemy. You have no marriage until the affair is dead and buried and your wife fully commited to you 

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

bossman71 said:


> So I should kick her to the curb if she can't let go of the past and can't forgive me for my wrongs? I want to work on our marriage. I can get past the EA as long as that's all it was. I have no way to prove that it didn't escalate into a PA. I do know that she is home with me and the kids when she isn't at work. I track her whereabouts everyday. She is so busy at work, that she doesn't even leave for lunch. I always make sure at least one kid is with her when she has to go to the store, etc. I don't see how she could communicate with the OM outside of work. *She has a very good job in a career that is going places.* I don't want her to quit her job. I work all day too, but we really need this double income to support the family.


You my friend are in denial. Big time. I was in an EA and quit my job. It was a very significant position ( a top technoligist in a defense company ) and I was going places. In fact I had no problem finding another job. If she is good at what she does she will find a better job. 

You are being very submissive right now. Yes submissive. I feel you want to be humliated by her actually. Like yes mistress I have been bad ... punish me with your lovers kinda thing. I am serious here. I am not saying this to belittle you. You are making excuses as many to to take no action. In fact you continue in an unhealthy way to take the blame and enable her. Stand up. What does she see in this OM? It is not just that he listens though he does. It is his power and status. He is not afraid of her as you are. Be the man she used to be married to. Is this just hypergamy?

We have many jobs in life. They come and go. The whole who moved my cheeze thing. In no way am I hearing from your posts that your marriage is your number one priority.

You paint a picture of a woman in a well paid job who is dominating you. To each their own of course but you are NOT taking the steps to end this.

I guess she can keep her good job and then they will be taking your children from you and with both thier in comes they will drive you away from your children.

If you will not fight for yourself then fight for your children.

You can still stop this madness but every hour you wait the worse it gets.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

By comming here to TAM you have a huge advantage over your wife and the OM. Affairees follow a script , and its always the same script and we know what it is.

Create a plan for yourself , the first part of that plan is to ensure the affair is over and has no chance of restarting
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Eli-Zor said:


> Your don't kick her out nor do make any drastic changes to the marriage or decisions that will effect it.
> 
> Hard experiences tells us that while you think the OM is out of the picture , they have likely taken this underground. Those in affairs and who have been caught tend to become exceptionably good at hiding the renewed contact.
> 
> ...


THIS ^ first


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You should stop letting her twist you up with her false equivalency. There is a huge difference between infidelity and neglect. Cultures all over the world consider infidelity a dealbreaker. Paying too much attention to your mom while married? Not so much.

You sound like you feel very guilty for the way you've acted in the marriage. From what you've written here, though, it doesn't equate with her behavior. Don't let her tongue-tie you. Clarify things in your mind and stick to your guns when you talk to her.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

bossman71 said:


> Here is something I had trouble responding to. After I confronted her EA (which I refer to as cheating), she responded with "You have cheated on me with your friends and your mother by choosing them over me!"


 This is called blame shifting. All cheaters do this. They hold you to a standard of perfection that they do not hold themselves to. Since you are human, you are not perfect, so they will always have a reason to falsely blame you for their cheating. Cheaters also falsely redefine words to meet their needs. Cheating is letting someone other than your spouse meet any of their spousal needs, either emotional or physical. You may have not been the perfect husband, and you may have made mistakes, but you never went outside of the married to have your spousal needs met by another; she has. You are not a cheater, but she is. Do not let her get away with saying otherwise. Do not let her claim that what you did is worse than what she did when she cheated; what she did is so much worse. 

You are both 50%-50% responsible for the condition of your marraige, but she is 100% responsible for her cheating. If she did not like the way you were treating her in the marraige, she had the option of demanding changes or leave the marraige; cheating is never a morally justified option. Cheating never fixes a marraige. Stop beating yourself up and accepting blame for her cheating as this only enables her. Your weakness in this is why she is doing this.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

bossman71 said:


> Hi-
> 
> I confronted her and laid down the boundary. She has not texted or emailed him since, but she does work with him 5 days a week.


This affair is not over until NC is in place. WW and OM can not work together. WW will not lose feelings for OM until NC is in place.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

bossman71 said:


> She has a very good job in a career that is going places. I don't want her to quit her job. I work all day too, but we really need this double income to support the family.


Your marriage is where it is because you place priority on the wrong things.

Now you put your WW job ahead of your marriage and family.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Please explain how you have put your family and friends ahead of your wife.
In marriage spouses put each other ahead of everything. Indeed, not doing so is breaking the marriage vows.
Please explain yourself.

Btw , as explained by it's author, the 180 is not a tool to get ones SO back and there is good chance it will drive them away. That it may attract them to you is possible but unlikely.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

> She has not texted or emailed him since, but she does work with him 5 days a week.


Trust me, they are comunicating out of work too. Snooping tools in place. VAR, keylogger, spyware... You marriage is at stake!


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

What did you see her do at the party with the OM?


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## bossman71 (Dec 27, 2012)

chapparal said:


> What did you see her do at the party with the OM?


Well, they were sitting side by side, laughing and talking. I witnessed my W put her hand on his. Then she reached over and kissed him. I'm pretty sure it was on the cheek, but I'm not positive. Everyone had a lot to drink, and my W tends to get flirty when she drinks (which isn't very often). I immediately went and sat next to her to let her know I was there. I didn't confront...didn't want to create a scene. That was the slap in the face that made me realize i wasn't giving her what she needed emotionally. Her physical needs have ALWAYS been taken care of by me...she never had any complaints about that.


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## bossman71 (Dec 27, 2012)

chapparal said:


> Please explain how you have put your family and friends ahead of your wife.
> In marriage spouses put each other ahead of everything. Indeed, not doing so is breaking the marriage vows.
> Please explain yourself.
> 
> Btw , as explained by it's author, the 180 is not a tool to get ones SO back and there is good chance it will drive them away. That it may attract them to you is possible but unlikely.


I am clear on the 180 now...its not for me yet.

One of the things that I have done to my wife in the past (which she just can't get over and brings it up all the time) is on the night when our first child was born, I was there for the whole birth. But later that night, I went out with my parents to a bar. It didn't make her feel like a priority. I have done many things like this in the past, but I know it was wrong for me to do that.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

bossman71 said:


> I am clear on the 180 now...its not for me yet.
> 
> One of the things that I have done to my wife in the past (which she just can't get over and brings it up all the time) is on the night when our first child was born, I was there for the whole birth. But later that night, I went out with my parents to a bar. It didn't make her feel like a priority. I have done many things like this in the past, but I know it was wrong for me to do that.


She seems just a tad entitled. Indeed ytou should make your spouse the priority. This however is total BS. She is rationalizing and manipulating you. Stop enabler with any of this. 

She kissed another man? UFB. Being drunk is no excuse. Imagine the freedoms taken when you are not there.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> . That was the slap in the face that made me realize i wasn't giving her what she needed emotionally.


:banghead::banghead::banghead:


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> :banghead::banghead::banghead:


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

I freaking give up.


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## bossman71 (Dec 27, 2012)

I have read the CWI Newbies...really opened my eyes to a lot of things. I want to thank you all for your honest and blunt advice. I have put my foot down. The OM is actually transferring to another state this weekend. She has agreed to counseling. Hopefully we can figure out some things about ourselves and each other.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

bossman71 said:


> I have read the CWI Newbies...really opened my eyes to a lot of things. I want to thank you all for your honest and blunt advice. I have put my foot down. The OM is actually transferring to another state this weekend. She has agreed to counseling. Hopefully we can figure out some things about ourselves and each other.


So Bossman, does this mean you aren't going to VAR the car? Just going to go along to get along?

Oh, about your last sentence, she has "figured out " plenty about you and what you are willing to accept. 

Best of luck.... Lots and lots.


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## GetTough (Jul 18, 2010)

old timer said:


> The affair has gone underground.
> 
> No begging or pleading to her.
> 
> ...


This is good advice. Here is what you need to do. Walk away from the relationship. I disagree with exposing the affair. I don't think it will help you AT ALL. When I exposed mine, the sh1t hit the fan and the relationship got worse dramatically fast and never recovered. Walking away shows strength, absence of jealousy or controlling tendencies and is VERY ATTRACTIVE.

I think you should simply stop having a care about what she does, and MOVE ON. Be distant and indifferent, aloof and cool. Do not initiate ANY COMMUNICATION with her. Be quite hard to get hold of. Respond MINIMALLY to her communication. Just focus on yourself and plan your exit. Prepare for divorce financially and emotionally. Focus on that. Show strength by FORGETTING her until she returns to you. NOTE She will possibly FAKE IT or TEST you numerous times. It's your job to not react until she is SINCERE. That is your best and probably only chance of turning this around.


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