# I want out, wife pregnant with No.2



## mouse7

7 years married
1 three-year-old son
1 newborn on the way.

As tragic as it sounds and I admit it is, I'm 100% certain that I'm leaving.

Let me just say that when I do leave, I’ll plan to live in the very same neighborhood of the city we live in (no more than a 10 minute walking distance) so that I’m close to my children and will be able to see them and help my wife out when the new baby is born and for the years after when it comes to the kids splitting time between my wife and me.

Back in very late 2012, 9 months after our son was born, I had informed my wife that I wanted a divorce but I never actually went through with it. She was pretty devastated for the first month or so, begged me to go to marriage counseling, which I refused, but I continued to sleep in the spare bedroom of our apartment so that I could be close to my son as he wasn't even a year old yet. Wife and I had a cordial relationship in the year after I broke this news to her, never fought about it in front of or brought the issues up in front of our son and respected each other for a year all the way through 2013. 

The idea of my son growing up in a broken home crushed me and although I was still leaning toward divorce, I felt I owed it to try the marriage counseling with her. We did this for several months in the winter and spring of 2014. Things were better for about a month after the counseling, but then went very rapidly downhill again by the summer of 2014. 

We took a trip to see some family last autumn and it was at this time that I realized I was emotionally just finished with the marriage with her. We had a rare sexual encounter during that trip and we found out a month later she was pregnant and she’s now 5 months in. I of course was shocked, but right away I looked at it in a positive way in that my current 3-year-old son wouldn’t be going through the “mommy and daddy live in different houses” ride during his childhood by himself, so no regrets that I have another kid on the way and am very excited for the new boy/girl.

While there are several issues with wife and I, it’s always been about the lack of a sexual relationship on her part. It’s clear that this is something that she just isn’t capable of fixing. Even in the marriage counseling it became clear that she needed to take action or the marriage would be in trouble. They recommended her all kinds of things to try, books to read and with me obviously having to be involved and supporting, which I did try and plead with her. This came from both our counselors directed at her but she took no responsibility and no initiative and I’m just done here. 

The problem has always come down to a lack of closeness and sex and this has gone on our entire marriage actually -- even way before our marriage. It's something that would always come up, she'd promise to improve in that area but has never actually made a true effort. It's now exploded to the point where I'm absolutely convinced that I’m done. I’ve crossed the bridge and I’m just done and there is no going back for me. I do not want to be married to someone who’s incapable of showing her love to me at all physically (obviously I’m referring to before the point when she was even pregnant) and I don’t want my kids growing up in a home where I’m completely resenting my wife and there is zero love being shown between us. We are absolutely completely disconnected and I’m not doing the marriage counseling again.

I'm 100% committed to supporting and being involved in every aspect of my children's lives. This is not at all about escaping the children aspect. This is completely between myself and my wife. We both love our son and unborn child unconditionally!


2 options I’m weighing here:

	Tell her I’ll be separating from her once the baby is born and offer to stay in the apartment in the spare bedroom until the 2nd child is born and even for a couple of months after the child is born before I move out.

	Consider her emotional health and that of our unborn child and don’t tell her until after the pregnancy, telling her within a few weeks after the baby is born and moving out soon after, again offering to stay in the spare bedroom until her and the new baby get settled.

Do I do it now, do I wait for our second child to be born

She's a great mother to our 3-year-old son and he adores her. I honestly couldn't ask for a better mother to my son and upcoming child and I'm committed to having a cordial and even close relationship with her as the mother of my children. She is the perfect mother and I absolutely mean that. She's not vicious, nor am I and our children will 100% be prioritized. We wouldn't be one of these parents badmouthing each other to the kids or in custody battles, etc.

Let me say that if we had no kids, I'd be long gone already. And if we just had my one 3-year-old and she wasn't currently pregnant, I'd have told her already late last year when I decided I had enough.

I’m in a bittersweet struggle here within myself. On one end, I’m am honestly excited about my current son having a new brother or sister. On the other hand, I have no idea what the best way to move forward here and when to tell my wife.


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## EleGirl

Telling her and moving out once the baby is born is not a good idea. Why? Because your 3 year old son will tie your leaving to the birth of his sibling. That is a burden that your new child should not have to carry.

Does your wife have a job or is she a SAHM?

Tell her now, give her the benefit of knowing the truth.

If it can be swung financially, then you move out and set up a visitation schedule. that gives your son 4 months before the baby is born to get used to having 2 homes.

If two places cannot be swung financially right now, then tell your wife but stay in another bedroom and start living a separate life.. but not dating anyone.


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## Happilymarried25

I vote to stay in the marriage until your children are 18. They shouldn't have to grow up without a Dad because you aren't getting enough sex. You should have used birth control if you had planned to leave your family. Don't say I don't know what it's like to be in your shoes because I'm not in your shoes. I'm in your shoes but I choose to look at the positive aspects of my marriage out of the bed and to raise our children together. Most couples have different libidos, your wife and my husbands are low and I would never leave him because of that and you shouldn't leave your wife.


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## SunnyT

Faulty logic Happily. 

Your needs and OP's needs are not the same. So your advice may seem alien to him. We could generalize and say that men's NEED for love and acceptance is through giving and receiving sex, and that women's NEEDS are more often emotional thus not necessarily sexual. In that case, you are suggesting that OP's needs do not matter, and that it is ok for your children to grow up thinking that marriage is just a shell that doesn't mean anything. 

OP.... I vote for telling her now too. I'd offer her a couple choices.... either you move back into the spare room and set a date a few months after the baby is born for you to move out...thus showing support for the family. OR, move out now and set up the status quo as far as visitation and custody. I think you have to be very dedicated and responsible to make separation right around birth work. You will have to take both kids often so she can have some rest, just as if you lived there. That's why I said maybe you should just stay and help her and make the transition later.


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## tonedef

I would tell her now. If you wait, she will be thinking everything is fine and plan life together for the 4 of you. Also, she will more likely be upset again and it will be very hard to care for a newborn with that amount of devastation. It will confuse your son, like Elegirl suggested and he will relate you leaving to the arrival of baby- it may could affect the sibling bond. If you are set on leaving, now is the best time to discuss it so you two can come up with a plan that is best for everybody. You gotta do what ya gotta do. I do feel bad for your wife though..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hopeful Cynic

Sounds to me like you've been telling her for years.

Also sounds to me like she tried to manipulate you into staying by deliberately getting pregnant.

Move into the spare room now and start living like coparenting roommates. Divide the bills up and separate the finances. Reinforce it by not having sex with her no matter what she does! Do it as long as you can stand it, but also be slowly househunting in the same neighbourhood. If something perfect and nearby comes available, you can take it, but otherwise you have the luxury of time to keep waiting. Do not move out until you have a proper access schedule decided. Also, be considerate and do not date until you have your own place.


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## mouse7

Thank you all, this has been incredibly helpful. Please continue to advise me here as you see you can. Been just a huge huge help for me emotionally already as i get the guts to say something, which apparently should be soon and not after baby is born. 

I think leaving right after the baby is born and the psychology of that to my current son and his possible resentment of the newborn is an excellent point and I admit I hadn't considered that. Now absolutely I am and that's priority thought on my mind. 

And just to remind that sex is not the only issue. It is the biggest part of of problems and it's something that was always there going back to even before we got married and through last year's marriage counseling but even since then, it's deteriorated significantly worse to absolute rock bottom and she would agree. This is despite the marriage counseling I finally agreed to and went to with her just a year ago. It's something I always brought up to her as a problem for as long as our relationship has been. She's simply not capable and I'm ok with that. I've come to terms with it and I'm at peace with it. But since the autumn it's started significantly affecting our everyday loving personalities with one another outside of the sex because there's resentment and I'm out. Will be a huge weight off my shoulders when I tell her and I can concentrate on loving her solely as the mother of my children.

But there are other issues. She's the type of person that it's engraved in her to remain quiet and not talk about problems on a day to day basis. Why? It's how she was raised and is still with her parents. The attitude goes something like this: "Sweep things under the carpet, until there's a huge pile of **** and then let my husband eventually bring stuff up. When he does, I'll listen, cry and tell him what he wants to hear but won't actually improve anything in the long term." And this goes for most anything, not just sex.

This is the way she grew up, this is the way her parents raised her and still are themselves both with each other and with my wife and her brother. They are in upper 30s and early 40s and still treated like young children. It's very sad and i see the whole psychology of it and how this has now affected my marriage. They were raised and are still strongly urged not to talk about problems, especially if it involves family. The attitude there is that everyone should just pretend everything is always ok, even when it's not. The thinking from her parents and her (because this is how she was raised and still deals with family) is like this: "Someone's feelings might get hurt if we address problems, so don't talk about them. Mouth shut and keep things to yourself."

Here's one I should have mentioned. Her parents have always slept even to this day not only in separate beds, not only in separate rooms but in separate ends and floors of the home. Every single night. This is the norm for them. There's no way someone can tell me this didn't affect my wife and her brother growing up in this environment. Again, the psychology of it is and her loving issues to me are so blatantly clear.

Someone asked about her work/financial status. She's a stay at home mom and she has a very generous employer who pays her 60% her salary for up to 3 years while she's on leave, which she'll be for at least the first 2 years after baby is born. I will of course support her both what's legally required financially and more as needed and of course I want split custody of my kids and as upset as she will be, I'm certain this would never be anything we'd take through the courts and fight about. We're both going to put our kids first and we'd do a split custody thing once the newborn is a bit older, which brings me back to another reason I'm going to get a place in the same neighborhood so that as they get older it doesn't affect getting to school, seeing their friends, sport activities, hobbies in the neighborhood, etc. 

Someone will now ask how I know she won't get into a whole legal battle is because when I brought up divorce 2 1/2 years ago we discussed all of this and were of the same thinking, which puts me at some ease for the sake of our kids.

Thank you all, even if you think I'm wrong here and should stay unhappily married. It's Your right to think that but not something I'm willing to do.

Please continue any advice. As mentioned this has been incredibly helpful so far.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

mouse7 said:


> I will of course support her both what's legally required financially and more as needed and of course I want split custody of my kids and as upset as she will be, I'm certain this would never be anything we'd take through the courts and fight about. We're both going to put our kids first and we'd do a split custody thing once the newborn is a bit older, which brings me back to another reason I'm going to get a place in the same neighborhood so that as they get older it doesn't affect getting to school, seeing their friends, sport activities, hobbies in the neighborhood, etc.


Are you in the USA? 

You will have to file your financial information and your parenting plan with the court. It's the law.

Most states have a self help web court website that has everything you need to do your own divorce. If you two really do not fight about it, things can go pretty smoothly.

When I divorced in 2012, I did the divorce papers. By then our children were out of high school so they were not mentioned in the divorce. But I did list how the assets and bills were split. We both agreed on it. The entire thing cost $135 to file... which I paid.


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## SecondTime'Round

I'd tell her now. And move out now if you can for the reasons mentioned earlier (your son associating breakup with new baby). 

WOW about her employer! And I have the same question as EleGirl....is this in the USA??

Don't date all until after that baby is born, and for a bit afterwards! I hope there isn't already someone else.


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## lucy999

mouse7 said:


> Someone will now ask how I know she won't get into a whole legal battle is because when I brought up divorce 2 1/2 years ago we discussed all of this and were of the same thinking, which puts me at some ease for the sake of our kids.


Don't mean to be Debby Downer, but this was 2.5 years ago _before_ a 2nd child was in the picture.

Make sure you're on the same page about this. Her feelings might have changed.


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## gouge_away

Have you tried sleeping in the same bed as her, I don't know about most couples but I know with me and W, that has helped with closeness and sexual intimacy.


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## richie33

mouse7 said:


> I sleep in the same bed as her currently smartass. I didn't prior to the marriage counseling a year ago, as stated. Move on you inconsiderate troll.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nothing in that post warranted that response. It was a legitimate question.


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## maritalloneliness

You knew 2.5 years ago that you wanted out. You had sex with her knowing you wanted out without protection. Duh, what did you think would happen and now you want to continue with this charade of a marriage. Talk to her and leave the poor woman alone to mend her broken heart and prepare for her impending change of being a single mother. She's probably thinks this child will cement the marriage. It is cruel for you to stay and pretend to be the doting husband with a child on the way. She's in a fragile state regarding her self esteem with gaining weight for the pregnancy and she's going to have to deal with this. I feel sorry for her.


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## happy as a clam

mouse7 said:


> I sleep in the same bed as her currently smartass. I didn't prior to the marriage counseling a year ago, as stated. Move on you inconsiderate troll.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:scratchhead:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mouse7

maritalloneliness said:


> You knew 2.5 years ago that you wanted out. You had sex with her knowing you wanted out without protection. Duh, what did you think would happen and now you want to continue with this charade of a marriage. Talk to her and leave the poor woman alone to mend her broken heart and prepare for her impending change of being a single mother. She's probably thinks this child will cement the marriage. It is cruel for you to stay and pretend to be the doting husband with a child on the way. She's in a fragile state regarding her self esteem with gaining weight for the pregnancy and she's going to have to deal with this. I feel sorry for her.


Fair enough. I respect your opinion and thank you for it. I am looking for honest feedback here and I sincerely appreciate yours. 

For what it's worth, the sex was always mechanical and became more and more so as our marriage continued and frequency of about once every 4-5 weeks was the case again by the summer of 2014, even after the marriage counseling just prior. The mechanical of it was even discussed in our counseling and she admitted to the fact that it's not her favorite thing and never was even before we were ever together and is something she has to push herself to do. As I said, I've come to terms with that now and I don't blame her for it anymore. It's just not her thing. Understood but I also understand that for a healthy marriage for most, including me sex needs to be there. I just want to move on and love and respect her solely as the mother of my children and raise our children the best we can in separate homes.

As for currently, she knows I'm miserable and can tell. We both are. It goes back to her attitude of, "Let's not even talk about what might be bothering you. I am sensing we're in deep trouble here, but I'll go watch TV in the bedroom and let you be. Or maybe I'll come sit in the living room with you, but let's not discuss anything." And for me, there's nothing for me to bring up anymore until I'm ready to break the news to her at this point because there's nothing I want from her at this point anymore. We've discussed our sex issues until we're red in the face for years and years and years. It's done and I'm done in that sense.

While I do take responsibility here to some degree, I blame her upbringing and the way her parents act and raised her and her brother more than anything, as I mentioned in a previous post.

And at the time she got pregnant, while I wasn't officially "done" in my mind, I was surely leaning that way. I take responsibility for it absolutely. But not a negative to me in the long-term sense as at at the same time, I have a peace in me that my current son won't be going through the ride of 2 parents in separate homes by himself and will have a partner in that sense, so absolutely no regrets. 

It's all about the timing right now, considering wife is still pregnant.

It is clear to me by the responses here though that I can't wait until the baby is born to tell her, which 72 hours ago I would have been leaning towards as I was very concerned about her emotional state while being pregnant. My sons needs and the possibility of him resenting the upcoming baby though really was an eye-opener for me and is what will drive me to tell her within the next couple of weeks here.


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## mouse7

SecondTime'Round said:


> .
> 
> WOW about her employer! And I have the same question as EleGirl....is this in the USA??


Good question by both of you. No, we're not currently in the US  Yes, it's a nice little benefit that she and me aren't complaining about, however I manage to whine about my high taxes instead, not to get political 

So I'm a US citizen living abroad, she's not a US citizen but has ties to the US (her parents are there also half the year) and that's where we met. 

That's beside the point though. I'm committed absolutely to staying in my adopted country here. I've got permanent residency and will likely have my citizenship within a few years, even further cementing me here. Would never take the kids out of their real home country here unless for some reason wife and I both agreed to move back to the US for some rare reason that we both needed to at the same time. It's not happening though. Have been here 6 of our 7 years married and while my current kid has already dual US and country citizenship and my next kid will have dual citizenship, I'm not moving back to the US before they're 18 and would never take them away from her. I can say that with 100% certainty so that doesn't even go into the equation here.

I may be a coward and a wreck of a husband here in some people's eyes with this pending separation/divorce, but I'm not a deadbeat or a heartless soul and I love my wife as the mother of my kid and future kid. Would never ever even consider it. I want my kids to grow up with both their mom and me in their lives, albeit separately.


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## mouse7

EleGirl said:


> If two places cannot be swung financially right now, then tell your wife but stay in another bedroom and start living a separate life.. but not dating anyone.


My own separate place may or may not be possible, with a due date of 4 1/2 months from now, but may not be realistic for either the fact of the timing or then even if I would be able to find something in my neighborhood, I can see my wife asking me to stick around to help with my current son around the home as she gets closer to the due date. I'm totally willing and open to doing this, absolutely. 

But if that's the case, how do I keep in mind my current son after the baby is born? In other words, at what point is it ok for daddy to leave for his own place in this case because what you and a few of the other forum members said about him associating the new baby with daddy leaving scares the living ____ out of me! I wouldn't want to put that psychological dilemma on him or on my unborn child. No way! It was a superb point you and others made. 

Any "right way" and "wrong way" stories in that case that you've heard?


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## Jasel

Pull the plug now. Sounds like you knew you should have divorced her years ago and keep trying to find reasons not to. Not sure how waiting until after the child is born to divorce is going to make it any better on anyone either.


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## melw74

She needs to know. I would want to know, and i most certainly would not want to know just after my baby was born.

I think she needs to know so she can used to the idea. I think she needs to know so she can get used to the fact shes going to be a single parent.

The truth is the way to go, and i think now is the time.


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## lifeistooshort

Hopeful Cynic said:


> Sounds to me like you've been telling her for years.
> 
> Also sounds to me like she tried to manipulate you into staying by deliberately getting pregnant.
> 
> Move into the spare room now and start living like coparenting roommates. Divide the bills up and separate the finances. Reinforce it by not having sex with her no matter what she does! Do it as long as you can stand it, but also be slowly househunting in the same neighbourhood. If something perfect and nearby comes available, you can take it, but otherwise you have the luxury of time to keep waiting. Do not move out until you have a proper access schedule decided. Also, be considerate and do not date until you have your own place.


Sure, because he had no part in getting her pregnant. 

So OP, you've known you wanted out for a while, yet you got her pregnant again and now planning to ditch her with a newborn. Nice. You claim you'll "help" but the fact is that she'll end up with most of the responsibility. So you can pursue your sex life. So what's your girlfriend's name? 

If you truly don't already have someone in mind do the decent thing and stick around for at least long enough to get the baby sleeping through the night. Then you can make plans to split. You shouldn't have gotten her pregnant again if you knew you wanted out.

Edit: tell her now, and tell her you'll stick around long enough get the baby sleeping. It'll be tough but it's much better then springing it on her while she's sleep deprived and taking care of a newborn. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thor

Seek qualified legal counsel wherever you are. You should also do some research on how US law impacts you even though you are overseas.


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## 3Xnocharm

Happilymarried25 said:


> I vote to stay in the marriage until your children are 18. They shouldn't have to grow up without a Dad because you aren't getting enough sex. You should have used birth control if you had planned to leave your family. Don't say I don't know what it's like to be in your shoes because I'm not in your shoes. I'm in your shoes but I choose to look at the positive aspects of my marriage out of the bed and to raise our children together. Most couples have different libidos, your wife and my husbands are low and I would never leave him because of that and you shouldn't leave your wife.


Yeah this is always your advice no matter what the hell is going on.


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## mouse7

lifeistooshort said:


> Sure, because he had no part in getting her pregnant.
> 
> So OP, you've known you wanted out for a while, yet you got her pregnant again and now planning to ditch her with a newborn. Nice. You claim you'll "help" but the fact is that she'll end up with most of the responsibility. So you can pursue your sex life. So what's your girlfriend's name?
> 
> If you truly don't already have someone in mind do the decent thing and stick around for at least long enough to get the baby sleeping through the night. Then you can make plans to split. You shouldn't have gotten her pregnant again if you knew you wanted out.
> 
> Edit: tell her now, and tell her you'll stick around long enough get the baby sleeping. It'll be tough but it's much better then springing it on her while she's sleep deprived and taking care of a newborn.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Who said anything about a girlfriend? Your making your own assumptions based on maybe what other stories you've heard. I'm still very much at home here!

No, I've known I wanted out since right around the time we found out she was pregnant -- about a week or 2 before actually. Yes, that's a sad reality. Before that, again the timeline went something like this:

Late 2012 I inform her I'm out and I want a divorce. I don't actually actionize that and we live in same home cordially w/ me sleeping in guest room for about a whole year for the sake of my current son, who's now 3.

Late 2013: I agree to give this another shot and agree to her original marriage counseling request.

Winter and Spring of 2014: We attend several months of marriage counseling.

Summer 2014: We're right back to where we were as if we never went to counseling.

Dec 2014, we learn she's pregnant after a rare session in the act that we had in Nov. Yes, December was right around the time that I knew for sure I couldn't go through this anymore with her -- came to that conclusion about a week or so before we found out she was pregnant.

I agree with you that I'd like to tell her now and stay at home with her and my son until around the time when the baby is sleeping well through the night.. That is what I was leaning towards until EleGirl and a few other posters brought up the excellent point about how that might affect my son and how he could potentially resent his new sibling and blame him/her for the fact that Daddy's move to a new home. Yes, my marriage is over and I'm certain that I'm leaving. But the last thing I want to do is do it in a way that's going to screw with the bonding between my son and his new brother/sister.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

1) I vote you tell her NOW. So she can start preparing herself emotionally for being a single parent.

2) I vote you move out NOW because, even if you wait until the baby is 'sleeping through the night', there is NO WAY your 3yo isn't going to make daddy leaving = new baby here. 

3) Please get your STBX-wife to seek professional counseling to address her issues of ignoring problems. If she doesn't see the problem and isn't willing to resolve them in her OWN personal life, she is going to teach these really unacceptable 'avoidance' behaviors to your children. There will be 2 more screwed up marriages like this one in another 25-30 years (your kids' marriages).

Best wishes to all four of you to find a NEW way to be a family together and separately! *peace*


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## Happilymarried25

3Xnocharm said:


> Yeah this is always your advice no matter what the hell is going on.


Yes it is, because I grew up in a divorce house going back and forth between parents, then my Dad got married and my stepmom would do everything to prevent he from seeing us. It wasn't until she died that he saw me and his grandchildren often. Most people on this board say "Divorce so you will be happy" I say you brought children in the world and their happiness comes first and you should stay married unless there is abuse. There is no abuse here there is just not enough sex. That's something he could live with if he wants to see his children.


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## 3Xnocharm

Happilymarried25 said:


> Yes it is, because I grew up in a divorce house going back and forth between parents, then my Dad got married and my stepmom would do everything to prevent he from seeing us. It wasn't until she died that he saw me and his grandchildren often. Most people on this board say "Divorce so you will be happy" I say you brought children in the world and their happiness comes first and you should stay married unless there is abuse. There is no abuse here there is just not enough sex. That's something he could live with if he wants to see his children.


He WILL see his children and be involved in raising them. Unhappy parents dont have happy kids. I grew up in a miserable household because of my father, and used to pray that my mother would wise up and divorce him. She finally did when I was 14, and my sister and I could not have been more grateful. Also, I divorced my daughter's father when she was 3, and I cannot tell you how many times she has THANKED me for that, because she didnt have to be with him all the time. You CANNOT paint everybody's else's situation with the same brush as yours. Im sorry that you had a bad experience, but everyone's situation is unique. I personally could not have stood the guilt I would have had if my mother had waited several more years to divorce my dad because of ME. Teaching your children to live in misery is a total disservice to them.


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## Dogbert

Happilymarried25 said:


> Yes it is, because I grew up in a divorce house going back and forth between parents, then my Dad got married and my stepmom would do everything to prevent he from seeing us. It wasn't until she died that he saw me and his grandchildren often. Most people on this board say "Divorce so you will be happy" I say you brought children in the world and their happiness comes first and you should stay married unless there is abuse. There is no abuse here there is just not enough sex. That's something he could live with if he wants to see his children.


Oh sure he can live without sex but his wife can also live with an emotionally cold husband who will cheat on her. Is that a beneficial environment for children to grow up in?

I'm sorry but a family rests on a foundation built on love, respect and sexual attraction between two people. If one of those has eroded, the whole foundation will be swept away and a huge sinkhole will be left in its place. A sinkhole that will drag everybody down with it.


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## mouse7

intheory said:


> mouse7,
> 
> Why did you get married? Was the sex pretty good at first. You said it was mechanical at some point; was it mechanical from the very beginning, prior to marriage?
> 
> If, somehow, your sex life with your wife improved greatly; do you think the marriage could be saved? You seem to have a very high opinion of her as a mother; and respect her as a person.
> 
> Instead of divorce; is counseling possible for the two of you? And perhaps individual counseling for her, since she is so conflict avoidant.


Hi, thanks for the input. Much appreciated. 

We did the marriage counseling thing last year. She's done her own therapy thing around this specific sexual appetite subject years ago, to no avail. 

Has sexual frequency always been a problem with us? Absolutely. She wouldn't deny that, either. Even back when we were engaged in the mid 2000s, she even went to therapy on her own, specifically to get an understanding and to hopefully improve her attitude towards sex. It was very hard for her but she went for the sake of our future and because I pleaded with her to do something. I was sure something was wrong and it did come back to her family -- her therapist confirmed this to her and was the first time she was told such a thing. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out, though. Again, her parents have always raised her and her brother to avoid confronting problems in the family -- we've had several incidents where my wife has gotten the guts to approach them about minor things (i.e. "Please don't bring the dog in the apartment as it's bitten our son.") that her mom and dad literally blew up and would leave after not seeing her or their grandson for 8 months. Her mom and dad have always and to this day slept in separate beds and separate rooms. That's outright dysfunctional. Meanwhile I get along with her parents great! Go figure 

Anyway, my wife read books about her lack of sexual appetite back then, continued the therapy for probably 6-10 months or so. Did it ever really improve then? No, it would for a month or 2 at a time, but then it would be right back to the once a month type stuff, at times even once every 2 and even 3 months I can recall.

It's always been an issue and she'd admit it, although she'd counter it with, "but last year I thought it was much better during this month and this month." Yeah it was better in the sense that she was probably back to 3 times a month at the latter stages of last year's marriage counseling up until about a month or so after the marriage counseling. Then at some point from then on, it was deteriorating rapidly again -- the frequency I'm referring to here. 

It was so clearly back to being mechanical in that she'd do it to keep things going good with us, not because she really truly desired it. I always looked at it that she did it so she could put a positive spin on our marriage. She's clearly embarrassed by the whole idea of sex. Again, this comes from her upbringing and her parents. She's also told me that she never ever talks about anything regarding sex even with any of her closest friends she's had since childhood. I always thought that was odd for a girl not to at least discuss it on a high level (if not specifically) with close friends. Nope, not her.

She's also mentioned the word shameful to me in the past during that therapy she did solo prior to our marriage and she admits it's from her upbringing. That should have been an eye-opener for me and I suppose it was in that her therapist was the first person to come out and blame her upbringing for her attitude towards sex.

So this is why I know I'm at an absolute dead end here in our marriage and I'm at peace in the fact that my wife is just not a sexual person. Never was and never will be. 

Agreeing to the marriage counseling last year and opening up like I did was a very big thing for me to do. It took a lot for me, but I did it to try to save our marriage as an absolute last resort. She knew that, it didn't work. And I think deep down she knows we're in a lot of trouble here, despite the pregnancy. I have to say if she's shocked when I break the news, well then she's in denial because I am around this home just being a grumpy shell of my old self and my son is seeing this firsthand. And going through a marriage like this isn't going to work for me. Maybe some can go on and put on a charade, but I'm just not capable of it. 

I'm also having a lot of resentment and always have with her due to this and I don't want it affecting my children, which is why I've come to this conclusion that the finality is here, despite the tragedy that is the timing right now. 

Yes, I truly do love her. I truly do adore her. And she is the best mom for my kid. The absolute best mom, a perfect mother. She's a great cook and homemaker, clean as a whistle. But all the years of pushing me away sexually and withholding the sex part and now the fact that all these years later nothing has improved for her and has actually just gotten worse in that department, I just know I'm done here (And sexually, I'm referring up until early this year, even despite the marriage counseling, not referring to these last several months of her pregnancy and now when she's 5 months pregnant). I'm 7 years into the marriage here. I can't imagine the dysfunction that would erupt between us at say year 10 or year 15. Oh boy.

I'm devastated by the timing. I'm sitting here with her in this home daily and me knowing we're done, and meanwhile I feel my unborn child moving in her tummy. 2 and 3 years ago I would be crying writing this. Now? I'm glum, I'm sad about it, but there's not a tear in my eye right now because I think I've finally just accepted it, despite the timing. 

I know the tears will flow though when it comes to creating a second home for my kids. That's the one that's going to hit me hard, but I'll take 2 loving homes for my kids over a single home where there's no love and just anger and resentment between me and their mother and watch things deteriorate even further right before my eyes if we stay together.

Apologies for the length. This whole thread has just been so therapeutic and such an enormous emotional help for me, both reading the comments of those who understand and those who are disgusted at me. It's exactly why I posted here a few days ago to get unbiased comments from various people, and what a help it's been so far!


----------



## SecondTime'Round

mouse7 said:


> Hi, thanks for the input. Much appreciated.
> 
> We did the marriage counseling thing last year. She's done her own therapy thing around this specific sexual appetite subject years ago, to no avail.
> 
> Has sexual frequency always been a problem with us? Absolutely. She wouldn't deny that, either. Even back when we were engaged in the mid 2000s, she even went to therapy on her own, specifically to get an understanding and to hopefully improve her attitude towards sex. It was very hard for her but she went for the sake of our future and because I pleaded with her to do something. I was sure something was wrong and it did come back to her family -- her therapist confirmed this to her and was the first time she was told such a thing. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out, though. Again, her parents have always raised her and her brother to avoid confronting problems in the family -- we've had several incidents where my wife has gotten the guts to approach them about minor things (i.e. "Please don't bring the dog in the apartment as it's bitten our son.") that her mom and dad literally blew up and would leave after not seeing her or their grandson for 8 months. Her mom and dad have always and to this day slept in separate beds and separate rooms. That's outright dysfunctional. Meanwhile I get along with her parents great! Go figure
> 
> Anyway, my wife read books about her lack of sexual appetite back then, continued the therapy for probably 6-10 months or so. Did it ever really improve then? No, it would for a month or 2 at a time, but then it would be right back to the once a month type stuff, at times even once every 2 and even 3 months I can recall.
> 
> It's always been an issue and she'd admit it, although she'd counter it with, "but last year I thought it was much better during this month and this month." Yeah it was better in the sense that she was probably back to 3 times a month at the latter stages of last year's marriage counseling up until about a month or so after the marriage counseling. Then at some point from then on, it was deteriorating rapidly again -- the frequency I'm referring to here.
> 
> It was so clearly back to being mechanical in that she'd do it to keep things going good with us, not because she really truly desired it. I always looked at it that she did it so she could put a positive spin on our marriage. She's clearly embarrassed by the whole idea of sex. Again, this comes from her upbringing and her parents. She's also told me that she never ever talks about anything regarding sex even with any of her closest friends she's had since childhood. I always thought that was odd for a girl not to at least discuss it on a high level (if not specifically) with close friends. Nope, not her.
> 
> She's also mentioned the word shameful to me in the past during that therapy she did solo prior to our marriage and she admits it's from her upbringing. That should have been an eye-opener for me and I suppose it was in that her therapist was the first person to come out and blame her upbringing for her attitude towards sex.
> 
> So this is why I know I'm at an absolute dead end here in our marriage and I'm at peace in the fact that my wife is just not a sexual person. Never was and never will be.
> 
> Agreeing to the marriage counseling last year and opening up like I did was a very big thing for me to do. It took a lot for me, but I did it to try to save our marriage as an absolute last resort. She knew that, it didn't work. And I think deep down she knows we're in a lot of trouble here, despite the pregnancy. I have to say if she's shocked when I break the news, well then she's in denial because I am around this home just being a grumpy shell of my old self and my son is seeing this firsthand. And going through a marriage like this isn't going to work for me. Maybe some can go on and put on a charade, but I'm just not capable of it.
> 
> I'm also having a lot of resentment and always have with her due to this and I don't want it affecting my children, which is why I've come to this conclusion that the finality is here, despite the tragedy that is the timing right now.
> 
> Yes, I truly do love her. I truly do adore her. And she is the best mom for my kid. The absolute best mom, a perfect mother. She's a great cook and homemaker, clean as a whistle. But all the years of pushing me away sexually and withholding the sex part and now the fact that all these years later nothing has improved for her and has actually just gotten worse in that department, I just know I'm done here (And sexually, I'm referring up until early this year, even despite the marriage counseling, not referring to these last several months of her pregnancy and now when she's 5 months pregnant). I'm 7 years into the marriage here. I can't imagine the dysfunction that would erupt between us at say year 10 or year 15. Oh boy.
> 
> I'm devastated by the timing. I'm sitting here with her in this home daily and me knowing we're done, and meanwhile I feel my unborn child moving in her tummy. 2 and 3 years ago I would be crying writing this. Now? I'm glum, I'm sad about it, but there's not a tear in my eye right now because I think I've finally just accepted it, despite the timing.
> 
> I know the tears will flow though when it comes to creating a second home for my kids. That's the one that's going to hit me hard, but I'll take 2 loving homes for my kids over a single home where there's no love and just anger and resentment between me and their mother and watch things deteriorate even further right before my eyes if we stay together.
> 
> Apologies for the length. This whole thread has just been so therapeutic and such an enormous emotional help for me, both reading the comments of those who understand and those who are disgusted at me. It's exactly why I posted here a few days ago to get unbiased comments from various people, and what a help it's been so far!


This is all so sad, and you're right, the dysfunction at year 10 or 15 would only be worse. You sound completely sexually incompatible.

With all due respect, I'm having a LOT of trouble believing there's nobody else in your equation. So much of what you say sounds like there is someone else you HAVE connected with in that way and that has helped you make up your mind that your wife is wrong for you.

JMO.


----------



## Regretf

Im sorry. I was goimg tobsay the same thing. Im sorry for what you are going thru and i dont blame you.

Seen anything else you liked in someone else?


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## jin

Have you considered an open marriage? Given your wife doesn't enjoy sex and you still love her it might be a viable option she is open to.


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## Regretf

jin said:


> Have you considered an open marriage? Given your wife doesn't enjoy sex and you still love her it might be a viable option she is open to.


I don't think gthat would be a ideal option for the kids, not the best example for them to see.

OP yours is really a tough situation and i don't envy you at all. It's stange as you obviously love your W and respect her and cherish her as the mother of your children, but sex is not happening, and that is a very important part of any relationship, it is the glue that sticks marriages.

Good luck, i wish i could say anything else that would be of more help to you.


----------



## Dogbert

SecondTime'Round said:


> With all due respect, I'm having a LOT of trouble believing there's nobody else in your equation. So much of what you say sounds like there is someone else you HAVE connected with in that way and that has helped you make up your mind that your wife is wrong for you.
> 
> JMO.


Or it could be that she is not sexually attracted to HIM but may be to another person, male OR female - she MAY even be a closeted lesbian.


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## mouse7

jin said:


> Have you considered an open marriage? Given your wife doesn't enjoy sex and you still love her it might be a viable option she is open to.


A possibility for some I'm sure, but not for me in my situation. I respect her and my kids too much to ever do that. I would never even approach her about the topic, nor consider it. And my kids would be living in that world. No thank you.


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## mouse7

Dogbert said:


> Or it could be that she is not sexually attracted to HIM but may be to another person, male OR female - she MAY even be a closeted lesbian.


Nothing to do with attracted to me. I trust her therapist from many years ago when we were engaged that this is all a result of her upbringing. Sex is just not important to her and will never be. It wasn't enough to be fixed even when our marriage was in jeopardy and we repeated and repeated and repeated the same conversations for years and years -- as in our entire marriage and engagement. Now the marriage is no longer in jeopardy, it's over from my standpoint.

I just need to get the guts to say it to the pregnant mother of my 3-year old son. OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

I need to look at it that this is what's best for my son and his future sibling, because otherwise the dysfunction that will come out of me putting on an act pretending I'm happy in the marriage will surely be much worse for my children than my wife and I separating will be. I mean just look at the dysfunction she witnessed in her family and how that's now affected her soon-to-be, non-existent marriage.


----------



## jin

*Re: Re: I want out, wife pregnant with No.2*



mouse7 said:


> A possibility for some I'm sure, but not for me in my situation. I respect her and my kids too much to ever do that. I would never even approach her about the topic, nor consider it. And my kids would be living in that world. No thank you.


Well you don't have to explain to your children it could be just between you and your wife. If, and that's a big if, you only want more sex them it is a viable option. 

Would seem to be a far better option than putting your wife and children through the hell of a divorce. 

All because you want more sex. Not minimising your needs but you stress how much you love her. And your children. Yet you are willing to abandon them. For what exactly?


----------



## jin

*Re: Re: I want out, wife pregnant with No.2*



mouse7 said:


> I just need to get the guts to say it to the pregnant mother of my 3-year old son. OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Poor you. You have my sympathies. 

Be brave dude I'm sure you can muster up the courage.


----------



## SlowlyGettingWiser

Hey, mouse!

I know there's plenty on your plate now; please keep in mind that YOU will have to be the parent who INSURES that your children do not have a negative/dirty/embarrassed/warped view of sex in general and their own sexuality.

If you're uncomfortable with how to broach the subject (start NOW, not when they're 13yo!), look for some books on the subject. All you need to do at this point is name body parts correctly (pen1s, vag1na, breasts, etc.) don't use boobs, or boobies or stupid words that trivialize or make sexual body parts seem abnormal or funny. They're no different than your elbow or your nose. If YOU can come to grips with that, you can teach them to come to grips with that. Point out that girls become women and boys become men; there are only 2 kinds of people in the world: males and females - everybody's bodies are similar within the gender and everybody's FEELINGS are similar across ALL people.

If you start NOW and answer honestly any questions that arise, you will have a leg up on the crappy start your wife was, unfortunately, given and that is now debilitating her ability to have a normal adult relationship.

Just something to keep in mind! There are books on lots of things including being a divorced father. Go seek out information that will help YOU and your children have healthier happier lives! *hugs*


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## Dogbert

Perhaps you should consider talking with a counselor or therapist to see what is the best approach to lessen, mitigate the inevitable pain of telling your wife that you no longer want to be married to her.


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## nuclearnightmare

OP:

I agree that sex is an essential part of marriage. I go so far as to say that one spouse cannot actually love the other unless they can offer them sex consistently. 

stil curious about a couple things though. I dont think you've answered.

-- if it was like this with her from the beginning (of the relationship??) then what led you to marry her?

-- I know these things happen but given your constant doubts about the marriage was there no birth control in place at all? or it wasn't in place because the assumption was that there would be no breaks at all in the existing abstinence?


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## mouse7

nuclearnightmare said:


> OP:
> 
> I agree that sex is an essential part of marriage. I go so far as to say that one spouse cannot actually love the other unless they can offer them sex consistently.
> 
> stil curious about a couple things though. I dont think you've answered.
> 
> -- if it was like this with her from the beginning (of the relationship??) then what led you to marry her?
> 
> -- I know these things happen but given your constant doubts about the marriage was there no birth control in place at all? or it wasn't in place because the assumption was that there would be no breaks at all in the existing abstinence?



Yes, was like this from the beginning -- the very beginning in fact. I guess my love for her was stronger and I was naïve to think it would get better. I don't have any other answer, unfortunately.

No birth control. As said I hadn't made my mind up at the point she got pregnant, however I was definitely leaning towards it (and came to my conclusion just a couple of weeks before we found out she was pregnant) since the sex life went right back to sh*t after the marriage counseling. I had made very clear I was doing the marriage counseling for the sake of our relationship and our family as a last resort, keeping in mind that for basically the entire 2013 calendar year, I was done with the marriage and had told her this before I finally agreed to the counseling. But when it comes down to it and I think about it deeper and I'm completely honest with myself here, I did the counseling mostly for my son as I didn't want the broken home thing for him. Why do I say this? Because 2 things here I need to keep in mind and both these things here further solidifies my decision that I'm done.

--If my son wasn't in the picture and it was just her and me, I'd have divorced already 2 1/2 years ago with very very very little hesitation when I dropped that bomb on her in late 2012.

--If wife wasn't pregnant today and with my son just turning 3 last month, I also would have broken the news right around January of this year to her that I'm leaving.

That's pretty clear to me that I need to leave and that I'm just "charading" it here in the meantime and putting on a pretend act. So, the reasons I had tried was for the sake of my family. It still didn't work. The only difference now -- and it's an enormous angle to the situation --- is that my wife is now pregnant with the second child. 

Do I have regrets? As difficult as this is right now at this moment, I truly don't because again, I put my son first and I know he won't have to do the 2 different household thing on his own once we separate. He'll have a younger sibling to go through that path with and it will be a sibling that I'll cherish as much as my son. It's just at this very moment I'm having a tremendously hard time with it. In the long term, once the sibling is here and as they grow up, I take it as a positive that they'll take this path together and will have 2 loving parents, just in 2 different households and they won't have to do it alone (as far as being the only child).

I will be totally and completely involved in their lives and I'm not abandoning them. I do hope to God that they'll understand one day. 

Obviously this is completely new territory for me and I'd love to hear success stories of other dads (the ones that give a damn about their kids) who divorced when their children were at a very young age. 

I feel strongly that the alternative of me staying will be worse though because of all the resentment I have towards wife over this over such a long period of time, despite the fact that I love her as the great mother to my kid that she is.


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## lifeistooshort

But you should feel some regret because you admit she's always been like this yet you married her anyway and then changed the rules, essentially not allowing her to build a life with someone who was ok with her as she is. That's a crappy thing to do, even though I'm sure it wasn't your intent. You're painting yourself as some victim and you're not. And you still knocked her up when you had a pretty good idea you wanted out.

This doesn't mean you should stick around and be miserable, just that you should have some compassion for her and get rid of the victim mentality. You knew what you were getting but decided later it was no good. It happens to many people, just acknowledge it. Women do it all the time. 

I still think she needs know now, not when she's sleep deprived with a newborn.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dogbert

lifeistooshort said:


> But you should feel some regret because you admit she's always been like this yet you married her anyway and then changed the rules, essentially not allowing her to build a life with someone who was ok with her as she is. That's a crappy thing to do, even though I'm sure it wasn't your intent. You're painting yourself as some victim and you're not. And you still knocked her up when you had a pretty good idea you wanted out.
> 
> This doesn't mean you should stick around and be miserable, just that you should have some compassion for her and get rid of the victim mentality. You knew what you were getting but decided later it was no good. It happens to many people, just acknowledge it. Women do it all the time.
> 
> I still think she needs know now, not when she's sleep deprived with a newborn.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm not saying you're wrong but to point out that mouse7 is far from being the exception. There are countless men and women who marry someone thinking that any issues or concerns they have will go away after they get married. 

I agree he should not have wasted both of their time and simply have left her long ago and moved on, but think about the shaming people who are sexually starved go through when they bring their plight, even here by some forum members who view sex as something so unimportant that the OP should shut up and suck it up - especially if the OP is male. 

I still believe OP that you consult a professional therapist on how best to proceed under the circumnstances.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Dogbert said:


> I'm not saying you're wrong but to point out that mouse7 is far from being the exception. There are countless men and women who marry someone thinking that any issues or concerns they have will go away after they get married.
> 
> I agree he should not have wasted both of their time and simply have left her long ago and moved on, but think about the shaming people who are sexually starved go through when they bring their plight, even here by some forum members who view sex as something so unimportant that the OP should shut up and suck it up - especially if the OP is male.
> 
> I still believe OP that you consult a professional therapist on how best to proceed under the circumnstances.



I believe I said that it happens to a lot of people. I'm just pointing out that he knew what he was getting.

People who marry drunks and then complain that they're married to a drunk knew what they were getting. Doesn't mean they have to stick around, just that have to take ownership of the fact that they knowingly married a drunk. 

Sex isn't it's own special category this way. He knew what he was getting but now he's somehow a victim because he got what he signed up for. 

What if she married a broke guy and then decided she couldn't live with a broke guy? Would she get the same understanding? 


I just think it sucks for her that she's going to be ditched with a newborn when he knew what he was signing up for. Maybe it's the best thing and she'll be happier too, but it's still sad.

Honestly, I'd never date a guy who'd left his wife with a newborn unless he had a damn good reason for it. In my book this aint one. I'd at least want to know he did the stand up thing and stick around through the worst of the sleep deprivation. But that's me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dogbert

Yes it is sad but remember that it takes two people to make a baby. Nobody put a gun to their heads when they chose to have unprotected sex and being divorced doesn't mean his responsabilities as a father end.

She is not a victim either, she also knew before she accepted his marriage proposal, about his need for physical intimacy but instead of being honest and saying no she said yes. If there are any victims here, it is the children.


----------



## mouse7

lifeistooshort said:


> Honestly, I'd never date a guy who'd left his wife with a newborn unless he had a damn good reason for it. In my book this aint one. I'd at least want to know he did the stand up thing and stick around through the worst of the sleep deprivation. But that's me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm not leaving her to just fend for herself once this kid is born, I think that's where maybe I'm not coming through somehow.

After all the superb and honest and unbiased feedback here (it's all been great, even from the people who hate my guts right now), my plan is that I'm going to be telling my wife that I'm going to be leaving this marriage, however I am going to let her tell me how she wants me to proceed as far as the living arrangement. 

Either I move out already and come back once the baby is born to help out until he's sleeping through most of the night. Can be here as much or as little as you need me. 

Or then the other option is that she asks me to stick around even right after I tell her, I move into the spare bedroom and I'm here all the way until my newborn is sleeping through the night. 

And I'm not doing this because I care what a potential future date might think of me. I'm doing this because I'm a decent human being, I adore my son with all of my heart and future kid with all of my heart and I respect and even love the mother of my children.

I'm not some future deadbeat father without a soul. I even want 50/50 joint custody of both my kids, understanding that when my wife is still nursing, she'll obviously need to be the main caretaker for him/her and I'll be in the neighborhood to drop by and watch the kids whenever she needs a break and even take the older one for a few days at a time.

But as much nastiness as people might think this is going to be between my wife and I after this, she's the type of person that when all is said and done here that will still say, "He's a wonderful father." just as I say, "She's a wonderful mother." We keep the stuff between us separate. 

It will be kids first, we'll respect each other, even love each other as parents and we'll still be a part of each other's lives as we raise these kids in the same neighborhood. This was all discussed already 2 1/2 years ago when I first wanted to leave. We'll just be doing so under 2 different roofs.


----------



## SecondTime'Round

mouse7 said:


> But as much nastiness as people might think this is going to be between my wife and I after this, she's the type of person that when all is said and done here that will still say, "He's a wonderful father." just as I say, "She's a wonderful mother." We keep the stuff between us separate.
> 
> It will be kids first, we'll respect each other, even love each other as parents and we'll still be a part of each other's lives as we raise these kids in the same neighborhood. This was all discussed already 2 1/2 years ago when I first wanted to leave. We'll just be doing so under 2 different roofs.


I hope your expectations are met with regard to your wife and how you think she's going to take this.

You really do sound like a great dad, and that's great. 

Are you already involved with another woman?


----------



## jb02157

Happilymarried25 said:


> I vote to stay in the marriage until your children are 18. They shouldn't have to grow up without a Dad because you aren't getting enough sex. You should have used birth control if you had planned to leave your family. Don't say I don't know what it's like to be in your shoes because I'm not in your shoes. I'm in your shoes but I choose to look at the positive aspects of my marriage out of the bed and to raise our children together. Most couples have different libidos, your wife and my husbands are low and I would never leave him because of that and you shouldn't leave your wife.


This is what I did and it was definitely the wrong answer, I've been miserable for years and should have left right after we were married, but I didn't and the kids came and I didn't want to be blamed for being the one who left so I stayed so the kids wouldn't have to grow up in a broken home. 

If you don't leave now you'll find excuses not to do it until finances will make it impossible. Although with two young kids it might be too late already.

Some spouses just don't see the responsibility involved in a marriage and if they can't live up to having sex with their spouse on a regular basis, then they should just not get married. They force making you go without sex and endangering their marriage and their kids future in a 2 parent home. It's not fair to anybody involved.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Only speaking for myself of course, but I don't hate you. And I do think you sound like a decent guy, your timing is just so awful. And to bring another baby into this knowing you wanted out, we'll that's crappy.

But I also don't believe you should stay just for the kids. My parents did and it sucked, and I divorced first hb for many reasons. My boys are thriving and they see their dad. 

I think what makes this whole thing cruddy is that you have a pregnant wife, and few people would walk at a time like this without someone else lined up.

At least you're willing let her dictate how you phase out, that's the least you can do. I think it's a good idea to ask yourself if you'll be glad you left the marriage if you don't find anything meaningful. My answer with my ex was no, I didn't care if I remained single. I just didn't want to be married to him. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SecondTime'Round

lifeistooshort said:


> Only speaking for myself of course, but I don't hate you. And I do think you sound like a decent guy, your timing is just so awful. And to bring another baby into this knowing you wanted out, we'll that's crappy.
> 
> But I also don't believe you should stay just for the kids. My parents did and it sucked, and I divorced first hb for many reasons. My boys are thriving and they see their dad.
> 
> I think what makes this whole thing cruddy is that you have a pregnant wife, *and few people would walk at a time like this without someone else lined up*.
> 
> At least you're willing let her dictate how you phase out, that's the least you can do. I think it's a good idea to ask yourself if you'll be glad you left the marriage if you don't find anything meaningful. My answer with my ex was no, I didn't care if I remained single. I just didn't want to be married to him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This. Mouse still has not answered whether there is or is not. I think to those of us more knowledgeable about betrayal, it's glaringly obviously there is most likely someone else based on everything he has said and hasn't said.


----------



## jin

*Re: Re: I want out, wife pregnant with No.2*



mouse7 said:


> After all the superb and honest and unbiased feedback here (it's all been great, even from the people who hate my guts right now), my plan is that I'm going to be telling my wife that I'm going to be leaving this marriage, however I am going to let her tell me how she wants me to proceed as far as the living arrangement.


I think you need to man up and decide for yourself what you want. Why should your wife be the one to make the decision on the details? You decide to walk out but she needs to work out is going to work? 

No one hates you but you are still playing the victim card here. If you are going to walk out be a man about it.


----------



## lifeistooshort

SecondTime'Round said:


> This. Mouse still has not answered whether there is or is not. I think to those of us more knowledgeable about betrayal, it's glaringly obviously there is mostly likely someone else based on everything he has said and hasn't said.



I too noticed that he hasn't answered as to whether he has someone in mind. Perhaps I've missed it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mouse7

lifeistooshort said:


> Only speaking for myself of course, but I don't hate you. And I do think you sound like a decent guy, your timing is just so awful. And to bring another baby into this knowing you wanted out, we'll that's crappy.
> 
> But I also don't believe you should stay just for the kids. My parents did and it sucked, and I divorced first hb for many reasons. My boys are thriving and they see their dad.
> 
> I think what makes this whole thing cruddy is that you have a pregnant wife, and few people would walk at a time like this without someone else lined up.
> 
> At least you're willing let her dictate how you phase out, that's the least you can do. I think it's a good idea to ask yourself if you'll be glad you left the marriage if you don't find anything meaningful. My answer with my ex was no, I didn't care if I remained single. I just didn't want to be married to him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hi, this is exactly what I'm looking to hear, this kind of story re: your sons and how you say your kids are thriving and they see their dad. That's great and is exactly what I want to be able to emulate for my sons here (yes we just found out my son's sibling will be a brother -- very happy in that sense). And maybe you wouldn't see them thriving if you and the ex had stayed together. And they'd pick up on all passive aggressiveness and resentment that perhaps you and your ex may have had in front of them if you stayed together. That's a fear of mine if I would just ignore this and stay together.

Regarding the timing of the walking away, that's been sort of my question from the very beginning here. So I know at this moment that I'm out of the marriage, whenever that may be. 

Yes, I can wait to break this whole thing to her until that point when the new baby is sleeping through the night, which won't likely be 4 months or so after he's born, possibly sooner, possibly later. That would mean I'm living a charade of a marriage between now and then, but yes I'm willing to do that for the sake of my wife's, my 3 year old son's and my unborn child's health. 

This is exactly the advice I'm seeking here. When I asked about telling her after the baby is born as an option of when to say I want out of the marriage, I definitely didn't mean that day or even that week. I mean once things are settled down after the birth. Basically, as you said when he's sleeping through the night.


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## mouse7

SecondTime'Round said:


> This. Mouse still has not answered whether there is or is not. I think to those of us more knowledgeable about betrayal, it's glaringly obviously there is most likely someone else based on everything he has said and hasn't said.


I thought I answered in a prior post, but maybe I didn't, sorry. But no there is no other woman at this point and there was no other woman I had in mind when I made the decision back in Dec/Jan, nor do I even have anyone specifically in mind now. I'm sorry, since you said it's so glaringly obvious to you that there is.

My situation doesn't have to fit another cookie cutter situation just because maybe that would be the more likely scenario for others. My situation is unique to me and I'm not considering any other woman (or man) right now. That's not to say that there won't be though in the future. And I do go out for late nights with friends 1-2 times/week, most of whom are married themselves, but I'm not actively looking or having "relations" with anyone at this moment. So again, no


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## mouse7

jin said:


> I think you need to man up and decide for yourself what you want. Why should your wife be the one to make the decision on the details? You decide to walk out but she needs to work out is going to work?
> 
> No one hates you but you are still playing the victim card here. If you are going to walk out be a man about it.


Disagree here, I think the least I can do is give her a say on if she wants me here or not and how much (if I tell her now and not at some point after the baby is born). I would certainly let her decide that because it's not just about me splitting at that moment. She'll be so vulnerable at the point that baby is here. It's not about "manning up" for me to just bolt the second I tell her. The manning up part is actually breaking the news to her.

And yes, fair points about me playing the victim. You and one of the other posters here have given that feedback to me and I need to put an end to that part of it although in the grand scheme of things and overall picture, we're both victims, but not as much as the kids. And in the moment that I tell her, she's the victim, not me.


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## SecondTime'Round

mouse7 said:


> I thought I answered in a prior post, but maybe I didn't, sorry. But no there is no other woman at this point and there was no other woman I had in mind when I made the decision back in Dec/Jan, nor do I even have anyone specifically in mind now. I'm sorry, since you said it's so glaringly obvious to you that there is.
> 
> My situation doesn't have to fit another cookie cutter situation just because maybe that would be the more likely scenario for others. My situation is unique to me and I'm not considering any other woman (or man) right now. That's not to say that there won't be though in the future. And I do go out for late nights with friends 1-2 times/week, most of whom are married themselves, but I'm not actively looking or having "relations" with anyone at this moment. So again, no


OK. Thanks for your response.


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## Thor

I think for your wife it would be best to make as complete a break from her as possible. While you should, and you want to, maintain as close a relationship with the children as possible, this is a separate thing from your relationship with your wife. It would likely be confusing to her if you remain living in the same home after divorce. Make the break from her as total as possible. Work out visitation and custody to have as much time as possible with the children.


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## Jellybeans

I would just tell her now. Why prolong your decision even further?


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## ladyyoda

I'm new to this forum but OP's story is the exact mirror image of mine, except that I am the pregnant wife who wants to leave husband and wonders about the timing/logistics. 

We've been together 15 years and have a wonderful 3yo. I admit I am the one more guilty here but I don't care any more. I grew up in a dysfunctional family and was desperate for love and attention when I met him. During the years together, I've been living in constant gratitude towards him for giving me endless support and attention, which helped tremendously with my self-esteem and navigate the painful relationship with my parents. But that is coupled with intense guilt that I couldn't always reciprocate and resenting that he did not stand up to my abuse. Tried breaking up with him multiple times but none of them worked. I don't blame myself as much now as I see it could have been called a co-dependent relationship as I couldn't keep it alive for this long alone.

Fast forward to the recent few years. Since we had our first baby together we had become less co-dependent emotionally (he started protecting himself from me after spending time with his loving parents and daughter). That was hard for me. I worked through more issues with my parents and myself. Although extraordinarily painful, recently I feel I have achieved some success. At this point I felt that we have both become healthier, stronger and more independent individuals. But the result is that we are more distant than ever. Been doing the "roommate" thing since getting pregnant with number 2. 

Now I don't know how long I can keep doing the "roommate" thing with him. As even if we are both psychologically ready to separate, taking care of 2 young ones while separated are a major task and we are both very devoted parents. Cannot predict the gloominess in the house and what effect it may have on our 3yo if we keep up the facade for another 3 years.

I guess I am posting here to show some understanding to OP and to hear practical advice on managing co-parenting of very young kids. If anyone knows of good arrangements or sees good threads, please share them. We both work and are financially well off to live in separate households and hire help. In our relatively conservative social circle, we do not know of any divorced couple with young kids.

In case anybody would ask, No. 1 came after a major life event which for a couple years brought our relationship closer. No2 came not unplanned because hubby always wanted 2 and I had a feeling that things would be difficult on kids and having company will make it easier. And no, neither of us have somebody else.


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## Ceegee

OP, have you considered the fact that when you tell her she may not want to see your face for a while?

Like in the hospital when your baby is being born?

Or in those first few days when the baby is either glued to moms chest or sleeping?

Aside from you, who does your wife have for support?


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## lifeistooshort

Ceegee said:


> OP, have you considered the fact that when you tell her she may not want to see your face for a while?
> 
> Like in the hospital when your baby is being born?
> 
> Or in those first few days when the baby is either glued to moms chest or sleeping?
> 
> Aside from you, who does your wife have for support?


That's a really good point. Childbirth is incredibly stressful and she may not want the guy that just dumped her there. One can make the argument that he's the father and it's his right but unfortunately the mother's stress level and the effect on her and the baby is more important.

I suppose it depends on how he thinks she'll receive the news.


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## Ceegee

lifeistooshort said:


> That's a really good point. Childbirth is incredibly stressful and she may not want the guy that just dumped her there. One can make the argument that he's the father and it's his right but unfortunately the mother's stress level and the effect on her and the baby is more important.
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose it depends on how he thinks she'll receive the news.



How he thinks she'll receive it and how it actually goes down are two different things. 

As well, how she would normally take it and how she will take it while so many months pregnant are two different things. 

Don't get me wrong, I think he should tell her now. She deserves to know. And I know the rejection he feels - it is painful beyond words. But at this moment she's going to feel all that pain all at once.


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## turnera

At least try to show some integrity by moving out now so your son can get used to having two homes and two lives.


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## mouse7

Ceegee said:


> OP, have you considered the fact that when you tell her she may not want to see your face for a while?
> 
> Like in the hospital when your baby is being born?
> 
> Or in those first few days when the baby is either glued to moms chest or sleeping?
> 
> Aside from you, who does your wife have for support?


I can say with 100% certainty that there's no way she would tell me she doesn't want me there for the birth, let alone for the days after. If for some reason that wasn't the case, I'd have to deal with it and I'd accept it. I'd respect that decision and wouldn't fight it. At the same time, I'd also see that as a potential red flag for the future when it comes to me wanting 50/50 joint custody of my children (once the newborn is no longer nursing at least) and I'd probably lawyer up. I see us doing everything outside the courts though. This is a non issue though, because again, I see 0 chance of her not wanting me around from the time I tell her all the way until the baby is sleeping is 0. 

I'd predict that she's going to want me to stay in place at our home to continue to help out with our current 3-year-old as day-to-day activities become more difficult for her in the later months of the pregnancy. And she'll want me around and living in the same apartment for at least 2-3 months after the baby is born.

Who does she have for support? Well she has a very close friend from childhood who's also now pregnant and due next month. She has a number of friends here for support, some married, some with kids, some single, one divorced with 1 kid, so all kinds of support options actually. And her parents just purchased a property on the same block as us where they'll be living from now until about a month after the baby is born.

Could be worse. And I know there's someone (probably from that group) who knows about the last time I told her I wanted a divorce. It came up during marriage counseling that while she didn't tell everyone I was planning to leave her, she did confide in someone about it.


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## tacoma

Tell her now, why would you have another child with this woman knowing you wanted out?


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## mouse7

ladyyoda said:


> I'm new to this forum but OP's story is the exact mirror image of mine, except that I am the pregnant wife who wants to leave husband and wonders about the timing/logistics.
> 
> We've been together 15 years and have a wonderful 3yo. I admit I am the one more guilty here but I don't care any more. I grew up in a dysfunctional family and was desperate for love and attention when I met him. During the years together, I've been living in constant gratitude towards him for giving me endless support and attention, which helped tremendously with my self-esteem and navigate the painful relationship with my parents. But that is coupled with intense guilt that I couldn't always reciprocate and resenting that he did not stand up to my abuse. Tried breaking up with him multiple times but none of them worked. I don't blame myself as much now as I see it could have been called a co-dependent relationship as I couldn't keep it alive for this long alone.
> 
> Fast forward to the recent few years. Since we had our first baby together we had become less co-dependent emotionally (he started protecting himself from me after spending time with his loving parents and daughter). That was hard for me. I worked through more issues with my parents and myself. Although extraordinarily painful, recently I feel I have achieved some success. At this point I felt that we have both become healthier, stronger and more independent individuals. But the result is that we are more distant than ever. Been doing the "roommate" thing since getting pregnant with number 2.
> 
> Now I don't know how long I can keep doing the "roommate" thing with him. As even if we are both psychologically ready to separate, taking care of 2 young ones while separated are a major task and we are both very devoted parents. Cannot predict the gloominess in the house and what effect it may have on our 3yo if we keep up the facade for another 3 years.
> 
> I guess I am posting here to show some understanding to OP and to hear practical advice on managing co-parenting of very young kids. If anyone knows of good arrangements or sees good threads, please share them. We both work and are financially well off to live in separate households and hire help. In our relatively conservative social circle, we do not know of any divorced couple with young kids.
> 
> In case anybody would ask, No. 1 came after a major life event which for a couple years brought our relationship closer. No2 came not unplanned because hubby always wanted 2 and I had a feeling that things would be difficult on kids and having company will make it easier. And no, neither of us have somebody else.


Sorry, I had inadvertently entered my response to this yesterday within your quote. 

Thanks for the support and I'm sorry that you're going through a similar issue. The timing absolutely sucks, but after all the feedback on here, I'm likely telling me wife within the next 2-3 weeks, with the expectation she'll want me to stick around until the baby is settled for the first 3 months or so after he's born. 

How do you think your husband will take it? Have you thought about how your conversation with him will go?


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## lifeistooshort

mouse7 said:


> I can say with 100% certainty that there's no way she would tell me she doesn't want me there for the birth, let alone for the days after. If for some reason that wasn't the case, I'd have to deal with it and I'd accept it. I'd respect that decision and wouldn't fight it. At the same time, I'd also see that as a potential red flag for the future when it comes to me wanting 50/50 joint custody of my children (once the newborn is no longer nursing at least) and I'd probably lawyer up. I see us doing everything outside the courts though. This is a non issue though, because again, I see 0 chance of her not wanting me around from the time I tell her all the way until the baby is sleeping is 0.
> 
> I'd predict that she's going to want me to stay in place at our home to continue to help out with our current 3-year-old as day-to-day activities become more difficult for her in the later months of the pregnancy. And she'll want me around and living in the same apartment for at least 2-3 months after the baby is born.
> 
> Who does she have for support? Well she has a very close friend from childhood who's also now pregnant and due next month. She has a number of friends here for support, some married, some with kids, some single, one divorced with 1 kid, so all kinds of support options actually. And her parents just purchased a property on the same block as us where they'll be living from now until about a month after the baby is born.
> 
> Could be worse. And I know there's someone (probably from that group) who knows about the last time I told her I wanted a divorce. It came up during marriage counseling that while she didn't tell everyone I was planning to leave her, she did confide in someone about it.



Viewing it as a red flag and threatening to lawyer up is a huge overreaction. Childbirth is a stressful and intimate experience and it's possible having the guy that just ended the marriage there will cause her a lot of extra stress that she doesn't need. It has nothing to do with joint custody and coparenting. Please do not go there, you aren't entitled to be there. For a lot of history men didn't see their kids born and yet somehow they were still involved fathers. 

But maybe it won't be an issue.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Vicky62

I can't believe you would talk to anyone in that manner


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## ILoveSparkles

_*I'd predict that she's going to want me to stay in place at our home to continue to help out with our current 3-year-old as day-to-day activities become more difficult for her in the later months of the pregnancy. And she'll want me around and living in the same apartment for at least 2-3 months after the baby is born.*_

I'd predict that no she wouldn't want you living at home after the baby is born. I'd be VERY surprised if she wanted you stay in the marital home once you tell her you want a divorce. 

And as far as the birth goes, if I were her, I wouldn't want you in the room. I would not want the person who wants to divorce me around during my most vulnerable, emotional part of my life. You could be in the waiting room, but you would not be in the room during delivery. Yes, you are the father, but the mothers wishes trump anything else during delivery - excluding necessary medical interventions.


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## SecondTime'Round

Let's not forget....."hell hath no fury like a woman scorned." I would NEVER have predicted the words that came out of my mouth when I was scorned by the man who pledged to love me forever. I've never spoken like that to anyone in my life, and I doubt I ever will again.

You are underestimating your (hormonal) wife.


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## EleGirl

mouse7 said:


> I can say with 100% certainty that there's no way she would tell me she doesn't want me there for the birth, let alone for the days after. If for some reason that wasn't the case, I'd have to deal with it and I'd accept it. I'd respect that decision and wouldn't fight it. At the same time, I'd also see that as a potential red flag for the future when it comes to me wanting 50/50 joint custody of my children (once the newborn is no longer nursing at least) and I'd probably lawyer up. I see us doing everything outside the courts though. This is a non issue though, because again, I see 0 chance of her not wanting me around from the time I tell her all the way until the baby is sleeping is 0.


Just keep I mind that she has absolute say over who is in the room during child birth. I could see her (any woman) not wanting the man who just dumped them in the delivery room.

However, you have every right to be in the waiting room. You can see you child once the birth is complete.


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## mouse7

The last few responses are forgetting that 

1. I've brought up the divorce thing to her back in 2012 when my current son was 9 months and we did almost a year in that situation with her and me under the impression I was leaving. We discussed how we would handle it and as crushed as she was, she puts our kids first, as do I. I don't have to be in the delivery room with her if she wouldn't want me to and I of course wouldn't force it. Again, I'm just saying that I know that wouldn't be the case. Not being arrogant or ****y but I know my wife. If I'm wrong, I wait it out in the waiting room. Her requests come first between now and when the baby is settled.

2. Just because there's the stereotype and majority of people don't put their kids first during and after a divorce and instead attack attack attack, even in front of the kids doesn't mean we'll fit that stereotype. 

It's the same where a few people earlier in the thread were sure I was involved with some other woman. I'm labeled here just because of how other men are. 

I guess the solution in my situation to some would be for me to just ignore my situation that I've experienced throughout the marriage, stay together, watch the dysfunction continue to expand like a storm cloud and envelope my family until I'm even more resentful than I already am and my kids can watch that and learn how to be a piece of ____ to their wives when they grow older. No thanks.


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## SecondTime'Round

mouse7 said:


> The last few responses are forgetting that
> 
> 1. I've brought up the divorce thing to her back in 2012 when my current son was 9 months and we did almost a year in that situation with her and me under the impression I was leaving. We discussed how we would handle it and as crushed as she was, she puts our kids first, as do I. I don't have to be in the delivery room with her if she wouldn't want me to and I of course wouldn't force it. Again, I'm just saying that I know that wouldn't be the case. Not being arrogant or ****y but I know my wife. If I'm wrong, I wait it out in the waiting room. Her requests come first between now and when the baby is settled.
> 
> 2. Just because there's the stereotype and majority of people don't put their kids first during and after a divorce and instead attack attack attack, even in front of the kids doesn't mean we'll fit that stereotype.
> 
> It's the same where a few people earlier in the thread were sure I was involved with some other woman. I'm labeled here just because of how other men are.
> 
> *I guess the solution in my situation to some would be for me to just ignore my situation *that I've experienced throughout the marriage, stay together, watch the dysfunction continue to expand like a storm cloud and envelope my family until I'm even more resentful than I already am and my kids can watch that and learn how to be a piece of ____ to their wives when they grow older. No thanks.


I don't think anyone is suggesting that. I think most suggestions just revolve around maybe not being so optimistic about your wife just agreeing to be a doormat in this situation. But, we don't know your wife. Maybe she will be a doormat.


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## EleGirl

Ok, so you feel secure that all will go smoothly.

Have you told her yet?


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## Ceegee

mouse7 said:


> The last few responses are forgetting that
> 
> 
> 
> 1. I've brought up the divorce thing to her back in 2012 when my current son was 9 months and we did almost a year in that situation with her and me under the impression I was leaving. We discussed how we would handle it and as crushed as she was, she puts our kids first, as do I. I don't have to be in the delivery room with her if she wouldn't want me to and I of course wouldn't force it. Again, I'm just saying that I know that wouldn't be the case. Not being arrogant or ****y but I know my wife. If I'm wrong, I wait it out in the waiting room. Her requests come first between now and when the baby is settled.
> 
> 
> 
> 2. Just because there's the stereotype and majority of people don't put their kids first during and after a divorce and instead attack attack attack, even in front of the kids doesn't mean we'll fit that stereotype.
> 
> 
> 
> It's the same where a few people earlier in the thread were sure I was involved with some other woman. I'm labeled here just because of how other men are.
> 
> 
> 
> I guess the solution in my situation to some would be for me to just ignore my situation that I've experienced throughout the marriage, stay together, watch the dysfunction continue to expand like a storm cloud and envelope my family until I'm even more resentful than I already am and my kids can watch that and learn how to be a piece of ____ to their wives when they grow older. No thanks.



I, for one, wasn't suggesting that at all. 

Just be aware of the possibilities. 

Putting myself in her stirrups I wouldn't want you in the room. Even if we were relatively amicable. 

These things can be emotional. When you're aware of what could happen you can be better prepared to handle it with grace.


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## mouse7

EleGirl said:


> Ok, so you feel secure that all will go smoothly.
> 
> Have you told her yet?


I haven't. And it's not because I'm confused or don't know if I want out. I certainly want out, but I don't know how to break it to her and I don't want to physically hurt her or the baby, considering her hormone state at 5+ months pregnant. Last time I threw the "I'm God **mn done and I want a divorce!!! I'm out" 1 1/2 years ago when my 3 year old son was 9 months and before the marriage counseling, it came in the heat of the moment during yet another fight about her lack of meeting my needs. Even though I'm so resentful of her and have such an attitude at her, I am clearly having a problem doing it and it's not because I don't want the separation/divorce. It's because her hormones are wacked right now and I'm afraid that it affects her or the baby's health. That is my genuine fear. Not her lashing out at me, not having to deal with our families. It's her emotional state and my unborn child's current health that concerns me most. Whole thing is just tragic tragic TRAGIC


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## turnera

Tell me again what's wrong with her that's so bad you want out? Unwillingness to have sex?


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## alte Dame

I appear to be voting in the minority.

It sounds like you will hurt her no matter when you tell her. Because of this, I would put the health of the new baby above her need/right to know immediately. You have no guarantee that your decision won't adversely affect the baby's health, so that should be your priority, in my opinion. I would wait until the baby is born.


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