# ladies point of view please



## dontgetit

I would appreciate thoughts or maybe an explanation from the ladies.My wife and I have been married 13 years, have one 3 year old boy, and a solid, happy marriage i thought. She had only been in 2 serious relationships prior. Both ended with them cheating on her. She was pretty inexperienced/naive when we first got together. For instance, she'd never had an orgasm with a partner before us. Here is what i need advice about. About a year ago, one of her exes started messaging her on f.b. It was nothing inappropriate but I explained to her that really the only reason a guy would contact an ex is to possibly end up having sex and i'd appreciate if she unfriend him and have no contact. She agreed and did unfriend him. About 6 mos later, i saw they were messaging again. Again, nothing inappropriate but this time i was pissed. I told her unfriend him, do not have any contact in any way,shape,form,or fashion or if you need me to, i will let him know or i will go. She apologized, agreed, and unfriended him. Last night i saw another message she sent and it said something to the effect of no, they werent all bad memories. They were good memories and hearing this song makes me think of what could have been had things 
been different. Seeing that fuc***g broke my heart and i just do not get it. Of course shes saying shes sorry and has blocked him but i just cannot get her to realize how disrespected i feel or how hurt i am. I left this morning and am contemplating staying at a friends for now. Any advice or insight as to wtf is going thru her head is greatly appreciated.


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## costa200

You should probably ask a mod to move this to the "coping with infidelity" section, because this is what is going on.


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## Gaia

I completely agree with costa.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dontgetit

The reason I didn't post under infidelity is because to this point, there's been no physical infidelity. They live 1100 miles apart, I have seen the messages sent and 95% were talking about their individual married life and kids. This last message he sent saying he felt bad how their relationship ended and was sorry and felt like it was all bad memories for her to which she replied they weren't all bad, a lot of good memories and hearing a song made her think of what may have been had things been different. I feel betrayed because I was very clear as to why I didn't want her to have contact with an ex. I guess at most you could say its emotional infidelitybut idk. She says she just didn't think it was a big deal and didn't understand why messaging an ex on f.b every 5 or 6mos was such a big deal to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gaia

Well lets see... She went against your no contact wishes more then once, disredpected your boundaries and feelings. You were hurt, she is clearly emotionally invested in this ex which isnt right. An ex is an ex for a reason. Its a big deal for you because she, as your wife, pledged her life to you and took a vow to forsake all others right? The time, energy, and emotion she is investing in this guy should be directed to you. 

Just because it isnt physical doesnt mean it isnt infidelity. It could get physical, especially with all the... "what ifs" they are discussing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dontgetit

Thanks for your reply. I completely agree. That's why I packed some stuff and left. I told her that she needs to understand why this hurt me and show me that she's sorry for doing it before I will discuss anything. She said she would delete her f.b which pissed me off more & I told her you can't have a f.b w/o acting inappropriately?? I told her that's not what I was looking for. She then told me I could look at her emails/phone&logs, and f.b everyday if I wanted. What's killing me is if I divorce her immediately, its gonna hurt our 3 year old boy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gaia

I do hope you two can work things out and R but she also has to be truly remorseful.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 45188

Physical infidelity is actually a second to us women. Emotional infidelity is more important to us. We care less about you jerking off to porn than we do about you being overly fond of another chick.. So what this chick is doing is totally inappropriate. What we on TAM refer to as an emotional affair in the making.

I've crossed boundaries, talking to guys my boyfriend didn't approve of, but I've never ever cheated or developed any emotional attachment to any of them.. If I did, it would be a form of unfaithfulness. I have boundaries now. No male friends for me.. No female friends for him.

I understand your wifes point of view also. She isn't talking to him much, there's probably nothing there.. But is she messaging him first, or is he initiating the conversation? If she is.. There's a problem. If its him and she's just replying, not as much of a problem. She's probably one of those naive girls who thinks guys and girls can be friends.

Ask her if she caught you saying that crap about one of your exes.. How you picture things could have been different, ask her how she would feel. She needs to put the shoe on the other foot.


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## Cosmos

Your W's behaviour is inappropriate. She's in contact with an ex who you have specifically asked her to not have contact with. 

Many people don't get that private conversations, emails etc can be perceived as and/or lead to infidelity, and perhaps your W is one of them.

Talk to her some more about this, OP, and only think of divorce as a very last resort if she refuses to cooperate.


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## heavensangel

I agree....your wife's behavior is inappropriate. I can never understand what the draw is for those who want to reconnect with exes. Why exactly are they exes if you desire reconnection? I don't get it!! The only time I ever contacted/communicated with my ex was when it had to do with our kids. They're grown and gone now; and I thank GOD that I don't have to deal with him even on an occasional basis. It'd be a cold day you know where before reconnecting with him would even be a consideration for me....HE was pure WHOLE A$$ (not an [email protected]#$%)!

Anyway....Your W definitely crossed the line but I think she crossed it even more so when she continued contact after you'd expressed how you felt about it. The lack of respect for me and my thoughts/feelings would bother me immensely.


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## costa200

dontgetit, read what kipani wrote here:



> Physical infidelity is actually a second to us women. Emotional infidelity is more important to us. We care less about you jerking off to porn than we do about you being overly fond of another chick..


She is totally right. Your marriage is in trouble. You need to inform yourself of this emotional affair business.


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## dontgetit

Thanks for the replies. To answer kipanis question, no she isn't initiating the conversations. He asked her why she unfriended him and she told him because I saw it and told her to. Then he told her he's sorry about how their relationship ended 20yrs ago and for cheating on her and that she probably has nothing but bad memories. I'm upset because she can't seem to get that this is a lie and has betrayed me. She says its no big deal and she deleted her f.b which pissed me off even more. Idk. I've told her the only fuc**ng thing u should be doing is owning the fact that you fuc**d up and hurt me and saying here are my passwords and please forgive me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dontgetit

And another thing that really sent me thru the roof is I got a text from her sister saying I should stop being childish, that I should know shed never betray me. I'm just like am I in the twilight zone?? Have u lost ur fuc**ng mind?? I'm not being childish and I'm sorry I will walk right out and divorce your ass if you can't see what you've done is wrong, it hurt me, and try to make it right.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lovelygirl

Your wife sounds like a child. She behaves immaturely.
How old is she?

She's got some growing up to do. She's not responsible and doesn't understand the consequences of her actions. I'm afraid she got married before she was actually ready.

She's beginning to have an emotional affair whether she admits this or not.


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## Entropy3000

dontgetit said:


> I would appreciate thoughts or maybe an explanation from the ladies.My wife and I have been married 13 years, have one 3 year old boy, and a solid, happy marriage i thought. She had only been in 2 serious relationships prior. Both ended with them cheating on her. She was pretty inexperienced/naive when we first got together. For instance, she'd never had an orgasm with a partner before us. Here is what i need advice about.
> 
> About a year ago, one of her exes started messaging her on f.b. It was nothing inappropriate but I explained to her that really the only reason a guy would contact an ex is to possibly end up having sex and i'd appreciate if she unfriend him and have no contact.
> 
> This is totally inappropriate. She should be NC with her EXs.
> 
> She agreed and did unfriend him. About 6 mos later, i saw they were messaging again.
> 
> Ok so now this is by definition unfaithful and I would contend cheating. This would be a dealbreaker for me as you already told her how you felt. This was totally disrespectful. Realize this is just when you caught it. So no telling what else has gone on. But the contact itself is the cheating.
> 
> Again, nothing inappropriate but this time i was pissed. I told her unfriend him, do not have any contact in any way,shape,form,or fashion or if you need me to, i will let him know or i will go. She apologized, agreed, and unfriended him.
> 
> She is in an affair with this guy and cake eating.
> You should have told her that this is unacceptable and that that you will not accept this in your marriage. Like I said a dealbreaker for me but if not at this point I would have made it clear that failing again means divorce. Also I would get the message that she is not into the marriage that there was a serious problem now.
> 
> Last night i saw another message she sent and it said something to the effect of no, they werent all bad memories. They were good memories and hearing this song makes me think of what could have been had things
> been different.
> 
> Indeed it should break your heart. Cut your loses my frirend.
> 
> Seeing that fuc***g broke my heart and i just do not get it. Of course shes saying shes sorry and has blocked him but i just cannot get her to realize how disrespected i feel or how hurt i am. I left this morning and am contemplating staying at a friends for now. Any advice or insight as to wtf is going thru her head is greatly appreciated.


If you want to save this you are going to have to ensure she understands you will not tolerate this. You should not have to do this though. It speaks volumes that she is willing to risk your marriage for her EX.


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## Entropy3000

dontgetit said:


> The reason I didn't post under infidelity is because to this point, there's been no physical infidelity. They live 1100 miles apart, I have seen the messages sent and 95% were talking about their individual married life and kids. This last message he sent saying he felt bad how their relationship ended and was sorry and felt like it was all bad memories for her to which she replied they weren't all bad, a lot of good memories and hearing a song made her think of what may have been had things been different. I feel betrayed because I was very clear as to why I didn't want her to have contact with an ex. I guess at most you could say its emotional infidelitybut idk. She says she just didn't think it was a big deal and didn't understand why messaging an ex on f.b every 5 or 6mos was such a big deal to me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No indeed she is cheating on you now and has been. Penetration is not the standard. Affairs start when things look innocent but she became officially unfaithful when she was in contact after you first spoke with her. Her initial contact was very wrong by itself and showed you really could not trust her.

So go ahead and defend her and tell everyone on here how this is not unfaithfulness and how greta your wife is. For sure they are in more contact than you know.

Marriages are destroyed by EAs.

Ok not a lady so I will bow out.


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## raising5boyz

WHOA!!! Hold on just a minute before divorce papers are drawn up! 

Yes she lied and you have a right to be upset. Going behind your back is NOT ok. However.....I think it is a little early to assume there is an emotional affair going on here. When talking with my female friends over the years, it is not uncommon to wonder "What might have been" even for very happily married women! I think we all step back and wonder at times. Sometimes it is simply a comparison to what we have now and we may very well agree that what we have now is far better than what might have been otherwise! It is possible also that when he appologized it was a sincere appology. How many cheaters don't know the pain they caused until it happens to them!?

I am not defending her completely....but perhaps a slow down is needed for the OP. Yes, this could be (and often is) the path to cheating. But perhaps a sincere, no yelling, heart to heart will benefit both of you. In addition....maybe she needs to become educated on emotional affairs and how it starts.

You have had a good marriage.....don't give up too easily. 

Good luck.

BTW....yes, I am a woman.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

I'm a woman and *I* don't get your wife's behavior.

You CLEARLY told her to cut off ALL contact with him forever. I don't care how childlike and naive she is, she isn't STUPID! Your boundaries were clear.

She CHOSE to ignore them, CHOSE to care more about his feelings (No, I don't hate you, all my memories of you aren't bad, don't feel like a heel, I still care, blah, blah, blah) than about YOUR feelings.



> I got a text from her sister saying I should stop being childish, that I should know shed never betray me. I'm just like am I in the twilight zone?? Have u lost ur fuc**ng mind??


SIL would have gotten a very CURT text from me saying 'you must have sent this to ME by mistake; I am NOT discussing this with you; if your sister chooses to, it's HER business"


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## 45188

OP, your wife is being naive. You know what he's thinking though, so have her block him. People on facebook have no idea they've been blocked. Your GFs page will come up as a 404. This guy probably is in a relationship looking to use facebook to cheat.. With YOUR wife. Look at his page, then throw that idea out there. You're a man.. You know how men think.


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## dontgetit

Yes kipani, I know exactly how men think. That's why I've been so pissed and baffled by her taking the position that I've done nothing wrong by replying to a message. I've explained to her that the only reason on earth I contact an ex is to set up a p.o.a. I am not trying to defend her actions. I have tried to calmly, rationally explain to her when you tell me you will not do something and then turn around and do exactly that, you have lied to me. At this point, she has deleted her f.b and sent me passwords to her gmail. Where I am stuck is she just doesn't get how hurtful this is to me. I've asked her if she thinks I'm a bit*h and she said no, why? I asked then why are you trying to fu*k me like a *****? When I ask how she would feel if she saw me message the exact same thing to an ex, she says it wouldn't bother her because she trusts me and trusts I would never let another person come between our marriage. And to slowly getting wiser, yes her sister got a text from me letting her know that first its none of her godda*n business, and second she is the one in the wrong here. At this point, I think I should just set an appointment with a marriage counselor, let them hear the story and sit back and listen to them explain to her how wrong she is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dontgetit

The guy lives 1200 miles away and she has had no phone or email contact. And yes I've told her that I will agree to go to a counseling session with her but if I do agree to come back, first thing I will personally contact this jagoff and make it crystal clear to him if he contacts her again, he will have me in person to deal with, if I find that she's lied about one single thing in this or if I ever see her so much as say hi to this motherfuc*er it will be do not pass go, do not collect $200, you will be served divorce papers within 24hrs. I will not go back home until we speak to a counselor and she owns the fact that she's the one that has fuc*ed up here. That it is a big deal and what she did was very wrong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gaia

Congrats OP. This is indeed an emotional affair considering she ignored your request multiple times and is trying to minimize what she is doing. Like I said, I do hope you two can R.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gaia

Btw she is not niave imo. She was purposely ignoring your requests to do what she wanted.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

If she is really SO SORRY (deleting her entire Facebook, etc.), then tell her that SORRY won't cut it; SHE can make an appointment for the both of you with a marriage counselor. Then LET HER DO IT. This should be HER step to make to rectify HER missteps.


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## 45188

I ignored my bfs too Gaia, because I figured if I didn't give a damn or see them as a threat, he didn't need to. I was naive. I was ignorant. I was wrong. 

Show her this post and let her have at it.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/49802-pointers-ladies.html

Its what made me finally make my boyfriend stop talking to a chick he was getting a little too close to.


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## dontgetit

Thanks for all the replies. I appreciate all the advice and will follow up with what happens. She cant believe i wont just come home and that i would be willing to throw away 15 yrs being happily married because she had a past before me. Shes adamant that its an electronic message and i should know how much she loves me and she would never let anyone come between us. Im baffled she just doesnt get it. I told her there are roughly 7 billion people you can be friends with. But if its a guy that had stuck his di*k in you at any point, thats someone i will not abide you being friends with. Facebook or not.


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## lovelygirl

OP you are being alpha and that's the right attitude. Don't give in til she admits it. She's so slow at understanding situations. Just keep the attitude because she should know there are consequences. 

Also, watch out for any fake FB account of hers!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cosmos

dontgetit said:


> Thanks for all the replies. I appreciate all the advice and will follow up with what happens. She cant believe i wont just come home and that i would be willing to throw away 15 yrs being happily married because she had a past before me. Shes adamant that its an electronic message and i should know how much she loves me and she would never let anyone come between us. Im baffled she just doesnt get it. I told her there are roughly 7 billion people you can be friends with. But if its a guy that had stuck his di*k in you at any point, thats someone i will not abide you being friends with. Facebook or not.


It's not because she had a past; it's because she's been dragging her past into the present by having contact with him.


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## Pepper123

I think it'd be prudent of you to stay at your pal's for a few days. The fact that she willingly deceived you after you'd asked her to stop is troublesome. 

There is no reason for any continuation of contact to take place at this point. He wanted to know about the memories... fine. That takes one contact. Anything after that is getting into the EA zone, and should stop before it turns into anything further.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

> It's not because she had a past; it's because she's been dragging her past into the present by having contact with him.


I think it's because she DISRESPECTED HIS reasonable request by contacting him REPEATEDLY after he told her WHY he considered it wrong and a betrayal of their marriage.


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## Phenix70

dontgetit said:


> Thanks for the replies. To answer kipanis question, no she isn't initiating the conversations. He asked her why she unfriended him and she told him because I saw it and told her to. *Then he told her he's sorry about how their relationship ended 20yrs ago and for cheating on her and that she probably has nothing but bad memories.* I'm upset because she can't seem to get that this is a lie and has betrayed me. She says its no big deal and she deleted her f.b which pissed me off even more. Idk. I've told her the only fuc**ng thing u should be doing is owning the fact that you fuc**d up and hurt me and saying here are my passwords and please forgive me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Her ex cheated on her, for her to say to him that it wasn't all bad memories after what he did to her is absolute BS.
I'd be pissed off if my husband had responded the same way to an ex who had cheated on him.
Your wife is re-writing history with her ex, a VERY dangerous place for her to go, because she can lie to herself about how great he was in order to justify her current behavior.
Her minimizing her behavior to you is typical, because she is lost in the fog & won't admit what she is doing.
Marriage Counseling could be the wake up call she needs.


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## turnera

dontgetit said:


> Where I am stuck is she just doesn't get how hurtful this is to me.


Order the book Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass - OVERNIGHT - and give it to her Tuesday morning. Ask her to read it that day. Then she should understand how hurtful it is to you.



dontgetit said:


> I've asked her if she thinks I'm a bit*h and she said no, why? I asked then why are you trying to fu*k me like a *****? When I ask how she would feel if she saw me message the exact same thing to an ex, she says it wouldn't bother her because she trusts me and trusts I would never let another person come between our marriage. And to slowly getting wiser, yes her sister got a text from me letting her know that first its none of her godda*n business, and second she is the one in the wrong here. At this point, I think I should just set an appointment with a marriage counselor, let them hear the story and sit back and listen to them explain to her how wrong she is.


First, I suggest you step back on the caveman talk. It won't make her want to listen to you. Second, I get that you are mad, but you are NOT speaking to her in a way that will get her to stay on your side. Much more talk like that and I'd be telling you to go F yourself and filing for divorce myself.

You need to be smart about this.


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## dontgetit

Phenix70,turnera, thanks for your replies. And to respond to your saying I should cut back on the caveman talk, maybe. However I've been with her 15 years, I have been a loving, faithful partner to her while always striving to take care of all of her needs and I would never intentionally hurt her. For her to pull this, well she's just gonna have to deal with how I'm gonna respond or she can tell me to f-off and I will serve her a** divorce papers that day and she can be well on her way to finding the next jagoff that's gonna cheat on her. I am a healthy, good looking, fit man and I assure you I will not have any problem finding a woman who appreciates the love and fidelity. She has been in 3 relationships in her life and the first 2 cheated on her and didn't even care enough about her to make sure her needs were met at all sexually. I was nice about it the first time, the second time not so nice, but it was crystal clear. The third time, she can deal with a little a**hole or be single I will not put up with it, I am not the one for it. Sorry just not built that way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dontgetit

Who knows, maybe mc will be able to help her understand why I feel so strongly and am hurt by this and get her off of the just not getting why its such a big deal and in turn help me to tone down being such an as*hole towards her. Phenix70, I don't think she's re-writing history. She is very well aware the sex life was just awful and it ended in her being cheated on. What she says is she was just saying not every memory was bad. So idk. I will update what ends up happening. Again, thank you all for your advice and replies.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cosmos

dontgetit said:


> Who knows, maybe mc will be able to help her understand why I feel so strongly and am hurt by this and get her off of the just not getting why its such a big deal and in turn help me to tone down being such an as*hole towards her. Phenix70, I don't think she's re-writing history. She is very well aware the sex life was just awful and it ended in her being cheated on. What she says is she was just saying not every memory was bad. So idk. I will update what ends up happening. Again, thank you all for your advice and replies.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Perhaps she does need to hear from a third party, and I'm pretty sure an MC would be the ideal person for the job.

It's pretty hard to understand how she can think her behaviour was in any way appropriate...


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## turnera

I'm not saying you don't have a right to be angry. I'm saying you are hurting YOURSELF and YOUR goals with talking to her like that. 

Would YOU listen to someone who's calling you names and threatening you? No matter what the reason?

No. You would stop listening the minute you hear a negative.

You CAN be firm and unyielding in what you expect her to do, without calling her a sl*t.


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## Pepper123

turnera said:


> I'm not saying you don't have a right to be angry. I'm saying you are hurting YOURSELF and YOUR goals with talking to her like that.
> 
> Would YOU listen to someone who's calling you names and threatening you? No matter what the reason?
> 
> No. You would stop listening the minute you hear a negative.
> 
> You CAN be firm and unyielding in what you expect her to do, without calling her a sl*t.


Completely agree with this... When my STBX would talk to me I would shut down and get defensive. There is a reason that across the boards the advice is to remain calm, it is effective. I know it probably sounds cheesy, but the more you can control your mouth the better the better chances are she might listen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dontgetit

I understand what you are saying. I havent and would not call her a ****. I have if anything defended her by saying i dont believe she would ever actually cheat. If anything, i have bent over backwards to try and understand her point of view. Last night, she tried to say she just didnt see it as a big deal. I rationally explained to her five times why she was wrong to agree with my request and then just do it and hope i dont find out. I told her the very first time i asked not to contact him is when if you were going to do it anyway to tell me no, i dont see it as a big deal and if he messages me, i will reply. And while i may not like it, at that point the decision would be mine to either say o.k, i dont like it, but i trust she wouldnt do anything inappropriate or say no, not acceptable to me and leave. Then she would have a leg to stand on. I will try to not be as much of an as* and hope mc will show her why shes so wrong, why it hurt me, and for her to start being remorseful and own her fu**up. If shes not able to do it quickly, she will be getting served divorce papers and she can message her ex until her hearts content.


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## Stonewall

3rd times a charm........ummmmm....curse. Agree with costa and kipani.


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## Stonewall

dontgetit said:


> I understand what you are saying. I havent and would not call her a ****. I have if anything defended her by saying i dont believe she would ever actually cheat. If anything, i have bent over backwards to try and understand her point of view. Last night, she tried to say she just didnt see it as a big deal. I rationally explained to her five times why she was wrong to agree with my request and then just do it and hope i dont find out. I told her the very first time i asked not to contact him is when if you were going to do it anyway to tell me no, i dont see it as a big deal and if he messages me, i will reply. And while i may not like it, at that point the decision would be mine to either say o.k, i dont like it, but i trust she wouldnt do anything inappropriate or say no, not acceptable to me and leave. Then she would have a leg to stand on. I will try to not be as much of an as* and hope mc will show her why shes so wrong, why it hurt me, and for her to start being remorseful and own her fu**up. If shes not able to do it quickly, she will be getting served divorce papers and she can message her ex until her hearts content.


You are defending bad behavior. Just don't do that! She doesn't need understanding in this situation. She needs you to hold her feet to the fire. She just doesn't know that!


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## Faithful Wife

dontgetit, you said: "will try to not be as much of an as* and hope mc will show her why shes so wrong, why it hurt me, and for her to start being remorseful and own her fu**up."

I want to warn you that not all MC's will "show her why she's so wrong". If you do go to an MC, you will have to be very sure you understand their stance on this type of thing, or else you will risk going in there and end up having the MC tell YOU that YOU are being rediculous and controlling.

I agree with you entirely about your position on this, but not all MC's will agree.


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## costa200

> And to slowly getting wiser, yes her sister got a text from me letting her know that first its none of her godda*n business, and second she is the one in the wrong here.


You tha man...




> I want to warn you that not all MC's will "show her why she's so wrong". If you do go to an MC, you will have to be very sure you understand their stance on this type of thing, or else you will risk going in there and end up having the MC tell YOU that YOU are being rediculous and controlling.


:iagree:

If you luck out and get one of those idiot MCs who can't even keep their own marriages going and comes up to you like you are being silly for not accepting another guy sweet talking your wife you better off without an MC at all.


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## Phenix70

I'm on my phone so it's tough to search at the moment.
Has someone posted that book "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass?
OP that book is just what you need, it explains why EA are dangerous to relationships & the damage they can cause.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Roselyn12

I know a lot of people have different opinions about whether men and women can be friends and also whether staying in contact with exes is ok. Personally I prefer to leave the past in the past. My husband wants to remain friends with his exes and does on fb. I got jealous at first but once I realized it was all really innocent I let it go. 

However, your situation is not that way at all. What the other women are saying is true. This is an emotional affair or the emergence of one. Perhaps she felt she had unfinished business with this ex because it ended badly and she wanted closure. However, she did it in secret which looks bad and against your wishes. Once you discovered the messages and told her how upset it made you she should have respected your feelings and stopped altogether. You said the ex continued to initiate contact even after she told him you wanted the contact stopped and at that point he had the opportunity to respect the relationship you two have and back off. He didn't. From that point on, it was your wife's responsibility to ignore any further messages from him and put your feelings above his. Maybe she didn't want to be rude and not reply, which is something my husband would say if in that situation, but your feelings should matter more than an ex. I do not blame you for feeling betrayed and thinking about divorce. I would feel betrayed as well. Right now, you should probably take some time to consider what you really want to do here and when you are ready you both need to have a serious talk. She needs to understand how you feel and you should listen to what she has to say as well. Even though she is wrong, if you want to move forward you have to do it together. Hope everything works out.


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## dontgetit

I'm absolutely holding her feet to the fire. Just trying to understand her line of thinking. If a mc says I'm the one being ridiculous or controlling, then my response will be fine, then that's how it is and she's free to leave and see if someone else will be a better husband, lover, friend, and father. But the bottom line is she will have the choice to either own the fact that a lie by omission is a lie nonetheless and she fuc*ed up and hurt me and accept and agree never to so much as say hi to this jagoff or she can be single and have our son grow up without his father in the house. Like I said I am an extremely intelligent, attractive, athletic, fit guy who will have no problem on earth finding any number of beautiful women that would give anything to have a relationship with a guy with my attributes who is loving, faithful, and dedicated to meeting all of her needs so long as its reciprocal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Maybe you would be better off concentrating on WHY she did what she did? She had a reason, and you don't even seem to care.


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## Faithful Wife

dontgetit, you said: "If a mc says I'm the one being ridiculous or controlling, then my response will be fine, then that's how it is and she's free to leave and see if someone else will be a better husband, lover, friend, and father."

Or....you could look at it differently, like that not all MC's are created equal, and you don't want to just hire any of them and then expect them to have the same value system that you have. Many MC's do not champion for 100% fidelity in marriage, so you need to know this upfront and find an MC who is on your team.


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## Hope Springs Eternal

dontgetit, I'm afraid you are a bit of a hothead. The language you've used with your wife is strong, very strong, and not conducive to getting things straightened out. Perhaps give this a couple more days to chill, then work on this again, using more loving language. 

You do love her, right?


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## Entropy3000

Now is not the time to find out why she did anything. You will get a better answer as time goes by. Too must history re-writing and rationalization going on in her head right now. She will not be clear in her own mind why yet.


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## turnera

Perhaps. And I do usually go with the firm stance. But I see a lot of 'she's a bad person and I'm not' going on.

Remember, SHE will now be making a decision - to back down or to proceed with the contact. SHE thinks she has good reasons. SHE apparently wants/needs something right now, and if he doesn't pay attention (and continues to just hammer home what she has to do), she may just give up and figure she has good reason to go elsewhere.


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## Entropy3000

dontgetit said:


> I'm absolutely holding her feet to the fire. Just trying to understand her line of thinking. If a mc says I'm the one being ridiculous or controlling, then my response will be fine, then that's how it is and she's free to leave and see if someone else will be a better husband, lover, friend, and father. But the bottom line is she will have the choice to either own the fact that a lie by omission is a lie nonetheless and she fuc*ed up and hurt me and accept and agree never to so much as say hi to this jagoff or she can be single and have our son grow up without his father in the house. Like I said I am an extremely intelligent, attractive, athletic, fit guy who will have no problem on earth finding any number of beautiful women that would give anything to have a relationship with a guy with my attributes who is loving, faithful, and dedicated to meeting all of her needs so long as its reciprocal.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, you have the right view. People are just prepping you for the chance that a given MC could give you some horrible advice, or lets just say non marriage friendly advice. 

There are some MCs that will try and spread the blame or even blame the BS. Others may feel that a WS should explore other people and find their soulmate. All sorts of folks out there.

Hopefully you get a good one. You may want ot interview on first to see what their philosphy / experence is with EAs and infidelity in general.

The bottomline this is raw stuff for you to process. You should be on a roller coaster right now. Her actions are on her. When she exists the affair and gets through withdrawal that is tile to work on the marriage. Until she is done with the OM there is little point in MC.

Just calm down a bit. Stay firm. You have a right to be upset. This takes time.


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## Entropy3000

Faithful Wife said:


> dontgetit, you said: "If a mc says I'm the one being ridiculous or controlling, then my response will be fine, then that's how it is and she's free to leave and see if someone else will be a better husband, lover, friend, and father."
> 
> Or....you could look at it differently, like that not all MC's are created equal, and you don't want to just hire any of them and then expect them to have the same value system that you have. Many MC's do not champion for 100% fidelity in marriage, so you need to know this upfront and find an MC who is on your team.


So why roll the dice at all. Get the OM out of your lives and then go to MC.


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## dontgetit

Again, I've not once said she is a sl*t or a bad person or any of that. The bottom line if she felt like it was not a big deal and wanted to continue to reply to his messages, then the very first time I asked her not to contact him and gave her my reasons is the point in time she should've said its no big deal and I will reply. That ships sailed and because of the shady behaviour that demonstrates a lack of respect for me, that will no longer be a possibility. To H.S.E, of course I love my wife. If I didn't, then I wouldn't care at all. Perhaps I am a hothead. However, its like I stated before, I asked her the first time nicely and gave my reasons. Boundaries were set, she agreed and then broke them. The second time, I wasn't as nice and it was very clear not to message him. Again, she agreed and again she broke her word. So now, if she has to deal with me being an as*hole for a while then that's on her. As far as her reasons, I have tried to understand. Its because she says she just didn't think it was a big deal, I should know she'd never cheat. I suspect more is in play. She's 41 and has a.d.h.d and a lot of anxiety. I suspect her hormones have been changing as I encouraged her to go to the dr and went with her. She's having to take meds for her thyroid and a.d.h.d and so maybe some of its pre-menopause? That being said, she knows and anyone who knows us will tell you they think we have a perfect deal and both love each other very much. My wife is a beautiful women and sincerely one of the most gentle, loving, and kind woman I've known. I am more of a confident, alpha, self assured person. I have always been her biggest cheerleader, I've always made a point to make sure all her needs are met and for her to know she can talk to me about anything. She would tell you that she knows I love her and our son and would give my life for either of them without giving it a second thought. She hurt me though. Logically, I know she didn't sit there and think if I reply, then it means I care more about an ex than my husbands feelings. But her actions made me feel exactly that way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lovelygirl

I don't know why everyone says he was being an a**hole.
I think he is one of the few alpha men out there who made his boundaries very clear!

Now, if his wife is so immature that she's not realizing how she was about to hurt her family then that's her problem.
At this point I suspect in her mental stability. It's taking her several days and months to admit and understand the consequences of her actions. OP didn't answer my question when I asked him about his wife's age.
If she's 33 and she's behaving this way then I'm being serious when I suggest she goes to a psychologist because I think she's got deeper issues then just having an EA.


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## lovelygirl

sorry double post.


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## dontgetit

Lovely girl, thank you for your reply. I didn't see you ask about age. I am 38, she is 41 and we have a 3 year old son. Her hormones/thyroid and a.d.h.d have been a lot bigger problem the past year. She is a tax analyst and had to go on disability for about 6 months because she just couldn't focus. She would sit and pick at her head, zone out, and 3 or 4 hours would pass. I have tried to be understanding and supportive and do everything I can to lighten her load as far as taking care of all finances, being the primary caregiver to our son, and doing more than half of the chores. She also recently went to outpatient therapy for 6 weeks from 9-1 everyday for help with her a.d.h.d/lack of focus.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000

I give him credit for not divorcing her. He is going through grief right now. He is very angry and should be. He just needs not to be abusive. That is wrong. 
Anger is one of the stages we all have to go through.

So OP. Whatever happens do not take your anger out on her. If she flat will not coorperate you need to handle this in another way. But it does take time.


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## Faithful Wife

Entropy, I'm not saying he should or shouldn't do that (get rid of OM) before or after MC, or even go to MC at all. I was just commenting that going into MC expecting them to be on your side in a case like this, without finding out their views on it first, would be a mistake.


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## Entropy3000

Faithful Wife said:


> Entropy, I'm not saying he should or shouldn't do that (get rid of OM) before or after MC, or even go to MC at all. I was just commenting that going into MC expecting them to be on your side in a case like this, without finding out their views on it first, would be a mistake.


Yes. I know. And I agree.

Until she goes through withdrawal MC can actually be a risk in this way. In fact it could totally undo what he has fought to achieve.

So I am suggesting that he interview the MC first but he may actually do betger to wait on MC.

Just my opinion


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## dontgetit

I just wanted to clarify a little bit as to what aspect of this situation hurt me and why i felt the need to take a hard, line in the sand position here. First off, let me say that I do know with 1000% certainty that my wife loves me. Secondly, the words ea and affair have been thrown around a lot and i want to clarify that i do not believe there are any emotional attachments or my wife swooning over him. I believe she just didnt have the heart to seem mean, rude, or unkind and ignore him when he was "trying to apologize" for past behaviour even though i know that really means he was trying to possibly set up a future piece of as*. I am bothered most in my wifes decisions to reply after saying she wouldnt do it...twice. I feel I must be this firm with her now because I want to prevent a divorce and I want her to believe as sure as she believes the sun will rise that ill divorce immediately if I see her so much as say hi to him or I catch her being deceitful regarding anything else to do with this. Because that is exactly what will happen. I do love and cherish her with all my heart but I will not be disrespected again. Those who know me know i am not the one, not built that way. She will respect my boundaries or i will find someone that will. Thanks for all the replies and advice. It is sincerely appreciated.


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## dontgetit

I will say that she is starting to truly show remorse and acknowledge it was wrong for her to reply after agreeing not to. She is still adamant that shes done nothing wrong as far as her feelings for him and adamant she would never, ever let someone come between us and even if his intentions were to try and set up a future piece of a*s, she would never, ever entertain the idea. She said that shes loved me with her heart and soul for over 15 years, that she has been and always will be faithful, that i am her best friend,best lover by leaps and bounds, best husband&father and she wants me to know she wasnt intentionally trying to hurt or betray me. That she made a stupid decision to reply and would take it back if she could. Shes deleted her f.b account, given me passwords to everything, and installed a gps and a spy system on her phone that allows me to see anything she does online or anywhere she is 24/7. I dropped off some christmas presents for our son today and she begged, 
pleaded, and cried for me to stay. I told her im sorry but i can't right now, that i need some time to calm down a little more but that I do love her and I do appreciate the steps she has thus far taken in making some reparations.


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## lovelygirl

Good job OP!

Although, the idea of her deleting the account is a bit concerning. Can't she have a normal account without keeping in contact with him?

It's like saying "I'd rather shut down my FB than keep it and break contact with him. I'd be too tempted!"

Is she running away from temptation? Can't she have a normal FB account without exes on it? 

As I said, watch out for any fake account.


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## dontgetit

Thank you lovelygirl. She just deleted her f.b account not because she couldn't resist the temptation because at first when this started, she blocked him and he wouldnt have been able too contact her anymore. She may in the future re-open her f.b account but in all honesty, she really just didnt use it a lot. She would get on her f.b account weekly at most, usually 2-3 times a month. And i think her deleting the account is her trying to show me she doesnt even need to have a f.b account as a way to secure more trust from me. I explained to her i dont mind you having f.b., i do not mind if your friends with 7 billion people just noone who you have had sexual relations with in the past because you never know in the future what may happen and if that door isnt open, theres no chance of infidelity happening.


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## lovelygirl

dontgetit said:


> Thank you lovelygirl. She just deleted her f.b account not because she couldn't resist the temptation because at first when this started, she blocked him and he wouldnt have been able too contact her anymore. She may in the future re-open her f.b account but in all honesty, she really just didnt use it a lot. She would get on her f.b account weekly at most, usually 2-3 times a month.


Alright, sounds within normal conditions.

She has yet to admit it was a big deal, althoug she apologized. If she doesn't understand the core issue then she won't have a problem doing it again in the future. 
If you understand your mistake, you are less likely to repeat it. If you don't get it then you'll never see it as a big deal. This is the point where your wife's at. Hopefully she'll have the clarity to realize what she's been doing.


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## dontgetit

I agree and I cannot believe that at this point it isnt 1000% clear as to what the consequences will be if it happens again. Shes to the point that she knows its a big deal to me breaking her word/ lying by omission. She says she just didnt think of it as a big deal at the time but now she gets her actions essentially communicated to me that chatting with an ex was more important than my feelings. The ridiculousness in all of this is I do trust her...implicitly. And had she just stood her ground in the beginning and said to me look, I do understand and respect your thoughts on this but its no big deal and if he messages me, ill reply and you should know i love you, would never hurt you then i guarantee you while i may not have liked that response, I would have respected it and said o.k honey, i do trust you and all this wouldve been avoided. She has always had a difficult time standing up for herself, low self esteem even though shes an incredibly beautiful girl, and would at all costs avoid any type of confrontation.


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## dontgetit

Turnera, your assessment is dead on that i can be hotheaded. As to alot of shes a bad person, im not let me emphatically state in no way do i have the view that shes a bad person or im perfect in any way. I have tried to be clear that i do not think shes bad, a slu*, or attack her character in any way. While i am not perfect, if i give my word to my wife or anyone i will or will not do something, then you can safely bet your life thats how itll be. And thats all i want in return. I have gone to great lengths to understand her, defend h
er, and state with clarity all the things that are such great attributes of hers. Where she is the most gentle, sweet, kind person you will ever meet, im sure most people who know me would state that i can come across as an arrogant pric* until you get to know me. I do not confide in alot of people and don't really care what people think. Thats where we are polar opposites. It is very important to my wife what people think of her and very hurtful to her if she believes someone thinks she has been unkind or rude. While we have had some ups and downs like any couple, i think shes as beautiful today as the day we met. By and large we have truly had a blessed, happy 15 years together. We have an amazing sex life, and are blessed with the best child. I still send her flowers just because, we have our weekly date night, it just came out of left field and i couldnt believe she'd replied to this jerkoff again, let alone try and make him think in anyway what he did was o.k to her. While she was home with her dying mother, he had a sancha in their bed and right after coming home from burying her mom, she finds out via neighbor another womans been in her bed everynight she was away. If i ever run into this jerk off, god help him.


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## turnera

When things calm down, you two should read Not Just Friends together.


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## 2betex

Ok, I am a guy and am totally confused about a single woman I know. Yes I am leagally sperated, we did not divorce as we are keeping some finacials intact.

I met a Native Amercan girl born on a reservation, at my work over almost 2 years ago. We became pretty close as we had many great discussions but we never crossed the line as she just got out of a bad relationship and I was not legally seperated so i would never act on anything because of this nor would she.

She left the state and I was crushed, I never thought I would have been. We have kept in contact over the last 8 months or so. She is in a custody battle over her kids, her ex is a jerk, Her former boyfriend casued her to go into bancruptcy. 

I have hung by her and helped her get through all of this and she questions why, I have been a constant for her. I have expressed to her she just needs to build trust with me, a big step for her to trust men again. 

(A side note her brother offered her a place to stay and live, a job, with the promise for her and her kids to move down with them in Texas.)

Now he treats her like **** and causes her much discomfort, she becomes really depressed, feels like a looser but hides it well. 

About every 10 days to two weeks she will reach out to me when she feel like life is is totally of control and she is massivlely depressed about her situation... the job sucks, the battle for her kids, her brother treating her like ****...We will talk until she feels better she get back to a good perspective again. 

I flew down to DFW about a month ago, she was so totally depressed she told me that her brother told her that she could only be friends with me ..no more. So I got the friend talk.. 

However, we spent the weekend doing things and she was stand of ish.. and not herself... 

her family really liked me... So that was good. 

We have been talking and she is so apolagetic about how she acted when I was there, She has apolagized multiple times, she has even challenged why we have this relationship. She tells me that she wants nothing to do with guys but I am the one she seeks comfort from. I express that I am a guy also.. lol... she say I am the exception. 

We never argue, we have great talks, typically never under 1.5 hours at a time.

At one time she basically told me that she wanted to try and date after we both got over the BS we both are going through. 

Now she has made a point of telling me that she want to see me this Christmas and meet her family in Washington including her kids, a big step for a damaged girl. 

She is thinking of moving back to WA. I have been rattling my connections to helpher get a new job. Since I am moving into a new 2 bedroom apartment and told me that she could not stay with me becuase she would feel uncomfortable do to my former wife. I actually never asked hr, just joked around with her about it... 

I think she really does care for me but I need to figure out if she does.... I have been told by a really good friend of her family, who has known her for most of her life that if she did not like me I would be history.

If we did date it would be totally new lifestyle for her, she raised three kids basically by herself and was always poor. I have a solid job and a little money in the bank. totally different than her former ex and boy friend. I think I scare her as I am sable and that is new for her. 

She is mad at me for selling my house in the country and givng my ex a new car right before we filed.
as I am giving up what she has always wanted...

I want to be with her and her kids, do I have a chance? 

Opinions feedback help welcome


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## Lastor

dontgetit said:


> She said she would delete her f.b which pissed me off more & I told her you can't have a f.b w/o acting inappropriately?? I told her that's not what I was looking for. She then told me I could look at her emails/phone&logs, and f.b everyday if I wanted.
> 
> And another thing that really sent me thru the roof is I got a text from her sister saying I should stop being childish, that I should know shed never betray me. I'm just like am I in the twilight zone?? Have u lost ur fuc**ng mind??
> 
> Listen, you are NOT in the twilight zone. I had a similar situation I posted where it seemed like I was talking to a wall until I spoke up and a lot! Make a big deal about it. Make a big deal about it NOW before it's too late. I understand your saying why can't she be on FB and behave herself, but have her stop it all now cold turkey. Don't play with fire. She's not capable of proper and appropriate boundaries, obviously, so she shouldn't have any contact at all like an adult.
> 
> Your anger, worries and frustrations are well placed. There is a statistic out there somewhere that says that exes that were separated for whatever reason have a 70-75 percent chance of making it work a second time, more than other married couples. They forget all the bad and remember only the good.
> 
> And if her ex is having his own issues right now and thinking all these sweet thoughts about your wife, remember that he's a predator now. He doesn't give a sh*t what happens between you two. He's caught in some stupid ideas and thinks "what if," which is bullsh*t. Then he shouldn't have cheated on her back then.
> Stand your ground, my friend. Don't let these crazy broads derail you, meaning your wife and her sister. They're nuts, not you.
> But try to make a big impact like shock and awe and end it quickly, but don't make it long and dreary, for your own sake.
> 
> Good luck!


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## lovelygirl

dontgetit said:


> Turnera, your assessment is dead on that i can be hotheaded. As to alot of shes a bad person, im not let me emphatically state in no way do i have the view that shes a bad person or im perfect in any way. I have tried to be clear that i do not think shes bad, a slu*, or attack her character in any way. While i am not perfect, if i give my word to my wife or anyone i will or will not do something, then you can safely bet your life thats how itll be. And thats all i want in return. I have gone to great lengths to understand her, defend h
> er, and state with clarity all the things that are such great attributes of hers. Where she is the most gentle, sweet, kind person you will ever meet, im sure most people who know me would state that i can come across as an arrogant pric* until you get to know me. I do not confide in alot of people and don't really care what people think. Thats where we are polar opposites. It is very important to my wife what people think of her and very hurtful to her if she believes someone thinks she has been unkind or rude. While we have had some ups and downs like any couple, *i think shes as beautiful today as the day we met. By and large we have truly had a blessed, happy 15 years together. We have an amazing sex life, and are blessed with the best child. I still send her flowers just because, we have our weekly date night, it just came out of left field and i couldnt believe she'd replied to this jerkoff again, let alone try and make him think in anyway what he did was o.k to her.* While she was home with her dying mother, he had a sancha in their bed and right after coming home from burying her mom, she finds out via neighbor another womans been in her bed everynight she was away. If i ever run into this jerk off, god help him.


I wonder what else she could look for. She has a husband who loves and appreciates and let's her know it. 
Why she would want validation from her ex is beyond me .

She definitely took you for granted.


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## dontgetit

2betex, just be confident, step up and tell the girl exactly what it is you want from her. It seems like at times you send her messages you want to be with her and messages at times you just want to be her pal. I promise you she will respond better to a self assured, confident approach.

Lastor, Lovely Girl, thanks for the replies. Trust me she knows exactly how big of a deal this is to me. I sent her ex a message and told him since my wifes afraid to hurt his feelings, then he can deal with me now. And if he ever so much as says hi to her i will be on the next flight and he will have me in person to deal with and i will personally tell his wife and kids what a jagoff he truly is. No reply from him yet.


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## dontgetit

Turnera, I downloaded the book not just friends to my nook this morning. I will read it today and read it with her once I have calmed down more. My wife grew up in a home with an alcoholic father who was abusive. One example he shot a shotgun off at 3am one night fighting with her mom and then he proceeded to throw his wife and kids clothes onto the lawn and physically kicked them out. 

I have never put hands on any female, I never would. But i try to be sympathetic to my wifes fears because of that trauma in her past. I left when she told me I was scaring her because of the anger in my eyes. That sent me thru the roof at the time because in my mind i thought you really think that little of me? You have been with me 15 years and you don't know by now I would never, ever put my hands on you or any other female?

That being said, I do understand her fears and insecurities and try to respect them. That also hurt me for her to say I was scaring her or she was afraid of me because I have been nothing but a faithful, loving husband to her and I feel like she should know in her heart I would never hurt her and I would happily give my life to protect her. Hopefully the book helps her to get a better understanding of my boundaries and concerns.


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## Toffer

dontgetit said:


> . Secondly, the words ea and affair have been thrown around a lot and i want to clarify that i do not believe there are any emotional attachments or my wife swooning over him.
> 
> *While I am a little late to the game here DGI, I have to disagree with you here. It is an EA. Look what she said to him during one of their excahnges:
> 
> " no, they werent all bad memories. They were good memories and hearing this song makes me think of what could have been had things been different. "*
> 
> DGI, to me this sounds like she's mourning a lost love and fanatasizing about what could have been. To me this is opening a door that should not have been opened. When he apologized, she could have simply said that's OK and let it go at that. Bringing up a favorite song that THEY shared was also a hard slap to your face
> 
> Time to wake up and smell the coffee DGI. She was at the least in the very early stages of an EA


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## dontgetit

Toffer, maybe i should frame the context of what she replied a little better. He sent her a message via f.b stating how sorry he was for doing her wrong and was afraid she hated him and only had bad memories of the times they were together and he thought about it because of some song he heard. Her reply was that no, they werent all bad memories, there were good memories as well, that they were young, choices were made, had different choices been made maybe things would have been different. I apologize for briefly paraphrasing alot of what was messaged into a couple of sentences. She claims she was doing nothing more than accepting an apology, didnt want to be rude, didnt thinkit was a big deal.

That being said, what im trying to drive home to her is i agree her having a past, fond memories of someone, thoughts about the past is not bad or wrong in and of itself. That her fuc*up is agreeing not to contact him after i was very clear and turning around and doing it.. twice.


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## dontgetit

Another item i am very skeptical about and pondering whether i should ask this jagoff via f.b to clarify is when the message was sent. Because i saw it saturday night and im almost certain the time stamp was 3:46 p.m which would tell me it was sent that day as prior f.b messages have a date. She swears to god the message was sent in july, that it started him messaging happy birthday, why did you unfriend me, oh, im sorry i did you wrong.

I can't definitively say i am 100% sure i'm right about the time/date because i saw it and fuc*ing blew a gasket and when she blocked him, it deleted the message. From my understanding, theres no way to retrieve a deleted f.b message.


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## dontgetit

But i have told her that she dam* well better think very carefully before swearing and cornering herself into the position the message was sent in July. I told her now is the time to be 1000% honest with me. Because if shes honest i can possibly forgive her and move past it if she truly shows me shes remorseful and understands why i feel betrayed and hurt. I told her and i think she believes if I find out anything she has said is in any way, shape, form, or fashion deceitful that it will be don't pass go, don't collect $200, i will divorce her. And i told her I will be contacting him and shes adamant what shes said is truthful, she deleted her f.b, submitted to me all passwords, put a keylogger on our home p.c, and a spy and gps on her phone thatshows me where she is and anything she does as far as online, text, or calls.


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## anchorwatch

Dontgetit, Do not be defensive of your stance. You are doing what is needed to stop an interloper's intrusion in to your marriage. It's encouraging to see a young man stand up for his family with out the fears of being PC. 

Two things:

Don't threaten to contact his wife. Contact her. Let him deal with his wife and the repercussions of fishing for your wife's attentions. 

Retreiving Facebook chats. Download Fchat Free


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## dontgetit

I dont want to appear like i am completely defending her. I just really want to try and understand what she was thinking. And i am inclined to believe it was truly a stupid, careless, spur of the moment decision that she regrets. Her issues with a.d.h.d and general anxiety disorder have been very difficult and i have tried to be patient, understanding, and helpful. I do believe she is going thru some hormonal changes, possible pre-menopause and shes having to take syntex for hypothyroid. Shes normally 5'9/140lbs and her issues with her thyroid have caused her to gain 15 lbs which she is very insecure about.

Even though I do tell her very often how beautiful and great I think she is. I show the same amount of enthusiasm and desire for her because I truly am as attracted to her as I ever have been. I strive make sure all of her emotional needs are understood and met and I have always and still make sure her sexual needs are met first. I know i'm not perfect and like any guy my first instinct is to want to fix any issue shes having a problem with. I have made great strides to understand that isnt what she needs or wants and I make the effort to be empathetic and a good listener without chiming in advice to fix issues so she can feel safe and listened to.

I do truly hope she will get this and I truly am encouraged by her actions thus far. While I would divorce her before letting her just disrespect me carte blanche, that truly is the very last thing on earth I would ever want to do and it would absolutely fuc*ing break my heart to have to do that. She has been an absolutely wonderful, terrific wife, best friend, fantastic lover, and awesome mother to our son for 15 years. She has stood right by my side through the good and bad, the ups and downs and i'm trying to keep that, along with her struggles with hormones, anxiety, a.d.h.d in mind.


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## dontgetit

Thank you very much anchor watch. I will see about retrieving the messages. She also went and got a card reader and has offered to let me see anything. Also anchorwatch, i believe the messages were sent from her cell. Will that software work for retrieving messages sent via cell? Because it was actually facebook messages.


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## Toffer

"had different choices been made maybe things would have been different"

Sorry DGI but this is what bothers me the most. It tells me she still thinks about him and she has shown how much by contacting him at least twice now.

I'm sorry but this woman who would never cheat on you has violated your trust at least twice now

If I were you, you'd better believe that I would be monitoring her via keylogger and VARs as well as reviewing her cell records on a regular basis and comparing the bill to the phone.

Of course, you shouldn't tell her you're going to do these things. Just do them


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## turnera

Toffer said:


> *While I am a little late to the game here DGI, I have to disagree with you here. It is an EA. Look what she said to him during one of their excahnges: *
> 
> *" no, they werent all bad memories. They were good memories and hearing this song makes me think of what could have been had things been different. "*
> 
> DGI, to me this sounds like she's mourning a lost love and fanatasizing about what could have been. To me this is opening a door that should not have been opened.


meh

I've done that before. I think of past boyfriends from time to time, but if I ever ran into one, I would run for the hills. I'm smart enough now to know they were bad news. 

That said, if this had been allowed to continue unchecked, it probably would have developed into an EA.


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## turnera

dontgetit said:


> My wife grew up in a home with an alcoholic father who was abusive.


A child of an alcoholic will have trauma and irrational feelings the rest of his life. A child of an abuser will do the same. A child of one who did both has a LOT of demons inside. 

Most likely she has toxic shame and feels defective. Such people often sabotage their lives because they think they deserve to be punished or don't deserve a great guy like you. 

I hope she'll get some therapy, or it could blow into a MLC.


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## dontgetit

Toffer, turnera, 100% i get how disrespectful and inappropriate her actions were. Like I said before though, I am secure and certain that my wife loves me. I know it in my heart and soul as much as I know the sun will rise and set. I see the love and adoration in her eyes when she looks at me and the ways she behaves around me. I do not believe she would ever have a full blown affair, nor do i believe she sees this as any type of a liason or affair. I think she is starting to get why I was hurt and where she fuc*ed up and how it was deceitful and disrespectful.


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## anchorwatch

dontgetit said:


> i believe the messages were sent from her cell. Will that software work for retrieving messages sent via cell? Because it was actually facebook messages.


I think it only works on the PC that sent the msg. There was a method to get Facebook to send a dump of messages from an account. I think the period was limited. Maybe another member can find it. I'll look for it too.


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## turnera

Read that book. Then you'll understand what we're talking about.

Very few people INTEND to cheat. For most people, it starts with a 'hello' at work, a catch-up email, or a notice on FB. A simple reply. A question from the OM/OW, and another reply. A comment from the OM/OW and a response - notice how the OM is drawing the not-wanting-to-cheat madly-in-love-with-her-husband woman into the conversation. Notice how it gets the ol' memory machine (and feelings) going. Notice how it seems so harmless at first. Notice how she'll start comparing the two men. Notice how she'll suddenly notice things she hates about her marriage, and wonders what it would have been like with the OM. 

Before you know it, she's daydreaming about him.

And she never meant to.

That's why it's called a script - it follows strict psychological norms and nearly every cheater goes through them, just like a script. 

You're looking at this from the onset, the VERY EARLY stages of an EA that is hopefully just a good wakeup call for you to focus back on your marriage and ensure she has no REASON to question the marriage.

Most people don't get that luxury. Most BSs don't spot it until the daydreaming is already begun.


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## dontgetit

100% I get it. I have explained to her that people don't start out thinking oh, i want to go and fuc* around on my spouse, destroy my marriage, and get into a full blown affair. But if you message an ex who at one point in time you were attracted enough to let him put his dic* in you, then you open a door where an affair becomes a real possible future outcome.

I told her I understand her intentions arent to cheat but if the doors never opened, its never a possible outcome. She goes to therapy for her a.d.h.d and anxiety, but perhapsin m.c i can get her to realize her low self esteem combined with hormonal issues, adhd, and anxiety may possibly cause her to unconsciously sabatoge her marriage and happiness.


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## turnera

Maybe you guys could discuss in MC a new path you BOTH could take, together, for a new phase of your marriage. That way, you have something to look forward to, together, which will ensure that the marriage stays looking more attractive than any lingering thoughts.

Become Master Gardeners, learn to dance, sign up for poker club...


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## Entropy3000

dontgetit said:


> I just wanted to clarify a little bit as to what aspect of this situation hurt me and why i felt the need to take a hard, line in the sand position here. First off, let me say that I do know with 1000% certainty that my wife loves me. Secondly, the words ea and affair have been thrown around a lot and i want to clarify that i do not believe there are any emotional attachments or my wife swooning over him. I believe she just didnt have the heart to seem mean, rude, or unkind and ignore him when he was "trying to apologize" for past behaviour even though i know that really means he was trying to possibly set up a future piece of as*. I am bothered most in my wifes decisions to reply after saying she wouldnt do it...twice. I feel I must be this firm with her now because I want to prevent a divorce and I want her to believe as sure as she believes the sun will rise that ill divorce immediately if I see her so much as say hi to him or I catch her being deceitful regarding anything else to do with this. Because that is exactly what will happen. I do love and cherish her with all my heart but I will not be disrespected again. Those who know me know i am not the one, not built that way. She will respect my boundaries or i will find someone that will. Thanks for all the replies and advice. It is sincerely appreciated.


It is an EA.


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## Entropy3000

dontgetit said:


> Thank you lovelygirl. She just deleted her f.b account not because she couldn't resist the temptation because at first when this started, she blocked him and he wouldnt have been able too contact her anymore. She may in the future re-open her f.b account but in all honesty, she really just didnt use it a lot. She would get on her f.b account weekly at most, usually 2-3 times a month. And i think her deleting the account is her trying to show me she doesnt even need to have a f.b account as a way to secure more trust from me. I explained to her i dont mind you having f.b., i do not mind if your friends with 7 billion people just noone who you have had sexual relations with in the past because you never know in the future what may happen and if that door isnt open, theres no chance of infidelity happening.


Many people have a joint account. Be aware she can now spin up a new account you do not know about. Email accounts as well. This is not a rare sinister thing but SOP for EAs.


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## Toffer

I think Entropy is right

Trust but Verify!


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## dontgetit

Well, unless she goes and buys an entire new cell, a new p.c, tablet, or laptop, any one of which I would see all our accounts are joint, then if she contacts him again, I will see it, I have access to every online visit, every text, and her gps shows me where she is.


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## Toffer

DGI,

If you really want to know, investigate

Some many waywards set up secret email accounts and purchase pay as you go phones (which they hide) as well as setting up alternate FB accounts

Just sayin'


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## dontgetit

Thanks toffer, I will do that. Just a quick update: I had a long heart to heart with my wife today and she was finally honest that the message she sent was saturday, not July. She said she was ashamed she messaged him and afraid of my reaction and afraid i would leave her and so she lied about it and felt so stuck and ashamed/afraid to tell the truth once she had lied. She has begged for my forgiveness and said it was just a thoughtless, stupid, spur of the moment decision to reply to him and she would give anything to go back and not do it. She says she understands how big of a deal it is, how hurtful and how disrespectful it was to me. Shes still adamant that there was no emotional connection and that she would never, ever cheat on me and will do anything in the world to make amends and swears she will never hurt me again, that the next time i hurt like that because of her will be only if she passes away first. She says she fully understands the repercussions if she ever contacts him again it will mean an immediate divorce. She seems genuinely sorry and I dont want to throw away 15 years of an otherwise happy, healthy marriage. I still think I will go to m.c and am planning on reading that book not just friends together. Again, thank all of you ladies for your advice and input and anymore would be greatly appreciated. Im just so shocked about this whole situation, so disappointed.


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## Toffer

DGI,

While I hope she has now been honest and sincere in her apology, the lying still would leave a doubt in my mind.

I would proceed as you have outlined above but I would also still move forward with the quiet investigation tips

As it's been said here many times, Trust But Verify!


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## turnera

Good talk. Now let her back it up by giving you her passwords, sending the guy a message (that YOU see first) saying I can never contact you again), and the two of you reading NJF together. 

Then, get the book His Needs Her Needs, and read it together. It will be an eye opener.


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## cam44

dontgetit said:


> Thanks toffer, I will do that. Just a quick update: I had a long heart to heart with my wife today and she was finally honest that the message she sent was saturday, not July. She said she was ashamed she messaged him and afraid of my reaction and afraid i would leave her and so she lied about it and felt so stuck and ashamed/afraid to tell the truth once she had lied. She has begged for my forgiveness and said it was just a thoughtless, stupid, spur of the moment decision to reply to him and she would give anything to go back and not do it. She says she understands how big of a deal it is, how hurtful and how disrespectful it was to me. Shes still adamant that there was no emotional connection and that she would never, ever cheat on me and will do anything in the world to make amends and swears she will never hurt me again, that the next time i hurt like that because of her will be only if she passes away first. She says she fully understands the repercussions if she ever contacts him again it will mean an immediate divorce. She seems genuinely sorry and I dont want to throw away 15 years of an otherwise happy, healthy marriage. I still think I will go to m.c and am planning on reading that book not just friends together. Again, thank all of you ladies for your advice and input and anymore would be greatly appreciated. Im just so shocked about this whole situation, so disappointed.


Just my humble opinion ...
She has TALKED her way and verbally expressed her sincerity and acknowledges what she did was innapropriate, etc.
Ok, think about WHY she was flirting with danger and contacting him in the first place.
My thoughts: MAKE her come to counselling with you and the purpose is to explore WHY she did what she did so that YOU understand and can learn to TRUST her again because unless you understand the WHY, you cannot TRUST her.
and no TRUST = D
She may be 100% truthful but dragging her to the counsellor will make the gravity of the situation sink in a little deeper ... you CANNOT have a reoccurence of this.


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## cam44

turnera said:


> Good talk. Now let her back it up by giving you her passwords, sending the guy a message (that YOU see first) saying I can never contact you again), and the two of you reading NJF together.
> 
> Then, get the book His Needs Her Needs, and read it together. It will be an eye opener.


And THIS.


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## dontgetit

Cam44,Turnera, thanks for your replies. I completely agree. As stated before, she deleted her f.b account but has agreed to reopen it to send him a crystal clear do not contact message that i read first. Then she will block him. Shes put a cell spy on her phone, a keylogger on our p.c, a gps on her cell that discloses where she is at all times. Shes given me all passwords and agreed to read not just friends with me and go to m.c. I do not understand why she did it. She says shes completely happy, would never cheat, and her actions generally show that she is deeply in love with me and happy. The 1 thing that really burns my as* is her sister sent me a text again saying I should drop all this, that im being ridiculous, that i should know she'd never betray me. I replied thats why you are 47 with 2 different kids from 2 different men, have never been married, and are single. That it truly is none of her god da*n business and all healthy marriages have boundaries and reiterated if she'd have said when i first told her I didnt want her to contact him that I need to trust her and if he messages, she'd reply and itd go no further. While i wouldnt have liked it, i probably wouldve agreed because it wouldve shown respect and honesty but now that ships long sailed.

I do suspect it was a spur of the moment, thoughtless, stupid decision that has to do with her hormones being out of whack, her adhd, possibly anxiety or some combination of those elements. And I suspect when caught and confronted, her response was like a child caught with their hand in the cookie jar and her adamantly lying when it was sent and that she did nothing wrong was a defense mechanism because she was probably scared that was it and she was gonna lose me. Hopefully reading the book and m.c will help me be able to forgive her, move forward, and start to reestablish some form of trust. Like i told her sister, this bullsh*t has ROCKED my trust in her and our marriage, it hurt me deeply, and i am struggling to understand it.


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## lovelygirl

Her sister should stop poking her nose and she should deal with her own sh*t! It's not her business to tell you what boundaries you should have for your marriage!!
Losers like her have no say in these matters and she's the LAST person on Earth to give advice!


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## turnera

Just want to point out that not telling someone something out of fear of getting tarred and feathered for it...is VERY common. It's one of the most common things humans do - avoid punishment or bad feelings. We do it without even knowing we're doing it.


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## dontgetit

Quick update, I had posted earlier that I sent that interlopiing jagoff a message via facebook to not ever message my wife again or i'd be on the 1st plane 2 confront him personally. Well, this coward little bit*h didn't reply and I saw he "blocked" me last night. I spent 4hrs finding out who his wife is, and she hadn't blocked me. This morning, I sent her a message via f.b telling her that since her husbands a little punk bit*h & has big enough bal*s to message my wife and interlope in my marriage but doesn't have big enough bal*s to deal with me directly that I need her help. I told her he knew I didn't want him messaging my wife and said he understood but continued to do it.

I told her they were in a relationship before, he asked her why she unfriended him, then proceeded to escalate the conversations to an emotional, inappropriate level by telling my wife he'd heard songs that made him "think" of her or pine for her and how sorry he was how things ended and that he was just consumed with the fact she may have bad memories of their time together and that they just pis*ed all over my boundaries and disrespected both me and her by reminiscing about how it could've been different had he not been such an as*hole to her.

I then told her that my wife has agreed that they have no reason on earth to have any future contact. And that she's made the decision her marriage of 15yrs is far more important than chatting up an ex and I would appreciate it if she tells her husband to never contact my wife again. I told her I am sorry you are hearing this from me but I tried dealing with your husband directly but he is obviously too much of a pus*y to deal with me like a man. 

Hopefully he gets the message and maybe he'll even have his bal*s drop and call or message me though I doubt it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

Good, now he'll be too busy dealing with his wife, rather than your wife or others he threw out lines for. I commend you.


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## dontgetit

Yeah, I really can't believe he's too much of a pus*y to just talk to me, man to man. But I guess cheating thieves like him have no respect, honor, or courage. He had no integrity when he dated my wife, cheated and I am certain he would just love to cheat on his current wife with my girl. Just a dumbas*. He should've known when he was with my wife he had a good thing. I certainly realize what I have. I guess its relatively true once a cheater, always a cheater.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

What honor would a man who goes after another mans woman have? He's just in it for the game. His kicks, his score. The thrill that he could take another mans woman. If he fails 9 out of 10 times, it doesn't matter, he hit once. 

Like many women, your wife is naive and trusting to the ways of a PUA. Google it, have her read the hits.


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