# Transparency or divorce!...Now what?



## Alittlefunnnn (Jan 11, 2012)

Hi All,
I need advise on what the next step is. I don't mean in theory, I mean what do I literally do next. 

Basically wife cheated. I knew there was more and there was. I demanded complete 100% honesty and transparency since the moment. So I found she lied, fortunately not another affair or anything but in all honesty I have no more room for lies. 

I spoke to her about this and explained that I was done with tolerating even the smallest of lies. During the conversation I came back to the fact that I didn't have ALL of the truth regarding her indiscretions. She AGAIN said she couldn't remember, so then I went straight into I KNOW YOUR LYING BECAUSE I'VE ALWAYS HAD PROOF mode. I basically told her I have always known about the indiscretions and ONLY when it became really easy to notice did I act on it. 

Obviously I didn't know anything but I was just tired of ignoring my gut instinct. She did give more information but not nearly enough. I told her that there was no other option, opportunity, day, minute or anymore time being wasted waiting for answers I told her plan A is complete transparency on past lies and recent or DIVORCE. 

i've reached my breaking point really. I have, probably like so many others, threatened to leave or to divorce before but this time it's no threat. I'm tired of continuing to live in agony by being lied to daily. I rather live without her knowing that I finally respected myself than to continue to live being slapped around like a poor little *****. 

My question is, what's next? How do I continue to move forward with the divorce in a manner which not only does she know I'm serious but I actually take steps to divorce. If anyone has any advise on a list of things I need to do IMMEDIATELY to make this break please let me know.

I understand you might want more details on all that happened but I rather concentrate on this next step and finally moving forward with my pride & dignity.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Alittlefunnnn said:


> My question is, what's next?


What do you want to be next? Start there and then decide how to proceed.



Alittlefunnnn said:


> How do I continue to move forward with the divorce in a manner which not only does she know I'm serious but I actually take steps to divorce.


I am confused. Have you filed for divorce or are you considering divorce? 

What specific information do you need from her in order to not get a divorce? Tell her.

Or, if you have filed and are only keeping it on hold until then, explain.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Get a lawyer, have her served. The process takes 6 months or so anyways to be finalized. If, and I mean a big IF, you do decide to R, you can just tell your lawyer to stop the D proceedings at anytime.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

If she says she is telling the truth book a polygraph, once said do not back down on this. Often a wayward reveals more closer to the day in same cases moments before the test.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Monday or tues. depending on whether banks are open, you go to the bank, and take ALL the marital assets and put them in an acct. with your name only on it.

You cancel any joint credit cards, and any credit cards with her name only on them.

You haven't stated whether she works or not, If not give her the want ads, and tell her to go looking for a job, you are done being the meal ticket, and provider for a partner, who doesn't want you, and won't be honest in the mge. ----You tell her starting as of now she is responsible for paying half of all the bills, everything, ---mtg., all insurance payments, food, utilities, anything to do with the car, if you have kids, anything to do with the kids.----Tell her to get her own medical insurance, as you will be removing her.

Tell her she can stay in the house, but you will be filing a legal seperation, as of immediately.-----If you ever do decide to R., she must sign a POST--NUP agreement.

I promise you, doing these things will get a change of attitude real fast---she may not change for the right reasons, but she will change her tune.


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## hisfac (Feb 10, 2012)

She'll know you're serious after you consult with an attorney and file for divorce and she's served with the papers.

Anything less than that will be perceived as nothing more than idle threats. 

Of concern is that you're seemingly more concerned with her knowing you're serious rather than actually being serious about filing for divorce.

I mean, do you really need someone to tell you that if you want to be divorced that you need to see an attorney and file for divorce?

I agree that you need to protect your assets but I caution you against removing all the funds from joint accounts and moving them into a sole account in your name, that might not look good to the courts. That's a question for your attorney.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

cheatinghubby said:


> Get a lawyer, have her served. The process takes 6 months or so anyways to be finalized. If, and I mean a big IF, you do decide to R, you can just tell your lawyer to stop the D proceedings at anytime.


:iagree: If you've threatened divorce before she may think you're bluffing once again. If it were me I would have her served and then demand full disclosure and transparency as a condition of R. If you don't get it you don't have to do anything. The clock will already be ticking and it's on her time now.

If she says she's told you everything and you aren't convinced tell her you demand a polygraph in order to confirm her story. Many times a WS will come clean literally on the steps of the building on the way to the testing office.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

It's unclear from your message whether you want to divorce, or whether you want to go further with your threats of divorce than you have before, so she thinks you're serious this time.

If you want to divorce, you obviously just call a lawyer. Done.

If you want to seriously threaten divorce, make some calls to lawyers. Get some business cards for lawyers and leave them on your dresser where she will see them. Go in your some free, initial consultations. Maybe a receptionist will call your house to confirm your appointment time (probably not, divorce lawyers probably use complete discretion for initial consultations). Give your wife some unmistakable hints, from your actions, that you're moving in that direction.

Good luck.


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## NotSoSureYet (Nov 10, 2011)

You have two options: 
1) Get a Lawyer and get the process started
2) Look into your states court system. You may be able to fill out/download all the necessary paperwork before actually filing it with the state. No lawyer fees. Just a filing fee (usually <$300) You both just have to be in agreeance over the stipulations of your decisions.

Also, a divorce can be withdrawn anytime before the final court date. So, that gives you both a little time to make a final decision (and maybe time for her to realize you are serious)


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey Hisfac---the reasoning for taking the money and putting it into one acct., is you are protecting it----she very well could be spending the money on her lover, or on the A.----You are protecting the marital assets.


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## Alittlefunnnn (Jan 11, 2012)

jnj express said:


> Hey Hisfac---the reasoning for taking the money and putting it into one acct., is you are protecting it----she very well could be spending the money on her lover, or on the A.----You are protecting the marital assets.


i've been monitoring all of the assets/banking statements etc since DDay. I have run a credit report on her that shows if she has any other credit cards open as well. I'm not worried about the finances at this point. 

What I will be doing is taking half of all of the money and putting it under my own account. She works and actually I'm under her insurance (always has been cheaper).


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## Alittlefunnnn (Jan 11, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> What do you want to be next? Start there and then decide how to proceed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Haven't filed. Honestly I'm not familiar how to even start the process besides calling a lawyer.


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## Alittlefunnnn (Jan 11, 2012)

NotSoSureYet said:


> You have two options:
> 1) Get a Lawyer and get the process started
> 2) Look into your states court system. You may be able to fill out/download all the necessary paperwork before actually filing it with the state. No lawyer fees. Just a filing fee (usually <$300) You both just have to be in agreeance over the stipulations of your decisions.
> 
> Also, a divorce can be withdrawn anytime before the final court date. So, that gives you both a little time to make a final decision (and maybe time for her to realize you are serious)


NotSoSureYet, I took your advise and downloaded some forms and put together a financial responsibility spreadsheet. 

Well, went to our last therapy session last Wednesday. It didn't go any different than the previous ones over the last 8 months or so. 

Sunday I started reviewing the financial statements and looking for apartments. I know I'm not the one that cheated and that SHE should be the one who looks for apartments but I'm at a point where I rather take control of my life instead of continuing to wait for her to meet me in the middle.

In April it will be 1 year since DDay. It's been a year of continued trickle truth and I'm basically just tired of staying in this state of limbo. I feel like I would be served best to divorce and move on with my life.

Yesterday after giving yet another opportunity to come clean about everything and be completely remorseful of the pain she has caused me I gave her a choice. I told her she could continue to be somewhat remorseful, somewhat truthful and somewhat committed to reconciling or she could be completely honest, remorseful and committed to reconciling. If she chose to be completely honest then there could be a possibility to reconcile, not a given, but an opportunity. If she continued being the same way then divorce was the only option. 

She started the same old blame shifting and gaslighting. I told her I wasn't going through all that mess again and got up, went to my car and brought in preliminary divorce papers. Attached were the split expenses as well. I told her I needed her to review it. She looked at it for about 15 minutes. I went upstairs, she got her jacket and left for about 2 hours. 

She came back crying and went straight to the bedroom. I slept downstairs for the night. Woke up today, got the kids ready, she did her part and I did mine. Didn't even exchange glances and went our separate ways. 

At this point I'm not sure I want to be divorced but I am sure that I don't want to be in a relationship where common decency and respect is not practiced by both partners. I know divorce won't be easy but i'll make of it what I make of it. 

Thoughts?


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Alittlefunnnn said:


> NotSoSureYet, I took your advise and downloaded some forms and put together a financial responsibility spreadsheet.
> 
> Well, went to our last therapy session last Wednesday. It didn't go any different than the previous ones over the last 8 months or so.
> 
> ...


Did you give her a deadline for how long you were going to wait until she reviewed the information? If not you should. Give her enough time to digest everything but not too long. Then wait for her to come to you. While waiting continue to do the 180. If she doesn't come to you by the deadline you approach her and tell her if you don't sit down and discuss it you are going to proceed without her input. Say it very confidently and strong. No emotion. Be calm. When you do talk if she agrees that divorce is the way to go then you have your answer that she is never going to come clean. If she still wants to try to R then if you already haven't mentioned a polygraph this would be the time to do so. Continue to present things like you know more than she thinks you do. Tell her the questions will be specific and there won't be any way for her to trickle truth her way out of them. Then see what her response is and let that be your guide. If she agrees to the test remember to monitor her browsing history to see if she looks up websites on how to beat a polygraph test.


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## NotSoSureYet (Nov 10, 2011)

I think it's great to hear that you want to take control of your life, you know that you & your family are worth it! If you wait for her, you may be waiting for a long time and continue on the emotional roller coaster. If she comes around the block and knows that D will be a huge mistake, she will quit the wishy washy stuff and really make an effort.
I thought I would be able to change my feelings withing a few months to a year. Hasn't happened. I finally put my foot down and said, "this is it" I have to make a decision for me and my families sanity. It's gonna hurt, but if it's meant to work out, it will. Maybe I think of it to be a huge revelation to reconcile. I haven't experienced anything remotely close to wanting to reconcile in the last year.
I think you've done the right thing ALF!!


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## cabin fever (Feb 9, 2012)

I normally don't post here, but just wanted to put my .02 as someone who has been in your shoes. 

1. You have kids, right? DO NOT LEAVE! Under no circumstances, do not leave, for your kids sake. your lawyer should tell you this. 

2. Get a lawyer. you pay a retainer, they do some work (have her served, draw up papers etc) IF u 2 decide to work it out, you will get back what ever your lawyer hasn't used out of your retainer. In my case I gave her $2500. After 3 months we reconciled, and I got about $1700 back. So it cost me $800. 

3. Decide what you really want to know about the affair. I didn't ask for alot of details, cause 1, i already knew most of them, and 2, what difference did it make? she had an affair, and I knew it. Knowing the details wouldn't make it easier for me. 

4. Cancel all credit cars, and transfer any $$ to a secure account she can't touch. Wanna know how I know this?  Mine started racking up charges on a C.C. I didn't know untill we Reconciled. 

5. Be preparred to get divorced. Be preparrred to Reconcile at the very end (if thats what you really want) I was ready to be divorced, even laughed when the R was brought up. In the end, I still loved her, we have a kid, and I wanted to be with my family. 

6. PROTECT YOURSELF at all costs! Being nice does NOTHING!

7. Sounds like YOU (as in you, yourself, and only you) are having a tough time with this. You want answers, and she doesn't want to talk about it. You 2 need to find a common meeting ground, where you both get what you want. 

8. do the 180! its hard as hell, but it works! 

9. One last thing to consider........She doesn't want to devoulge the truth for 1 of 2 reasons. 1 she is worried about hurting you more, and losing you......2. she is embarrassed to talk about it. I'M NOT SAYING SHE IS RIGHT, but understanding where she is coming from, can help you get the answers you want, in a way that she can open up about. 

good luck.


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## Alittlefunnnn (Jan 11, 2012)

Thanks for the advise and support. Something not seen a lot during these tough times. I keep thinking to myself, what will my girls think of ME when they get older and eventually find out about this? How messed up will their outlook on relationships be if they think it's OK to treat their spouse like their mother treats me? 

I also know that presenting the idea of divorce and actually divorcing have two completely different affects on the WW. I also know that anything I suggest unless I myself follow through with that suggestions means very little. 

Right now I feel horrible. I feel like I made a mistake in taking it this far but I know that I only feel this way because I have been so used to being the complete opposite and NOT taking control of my own situation and life. It's not only a reality check for her but one for myself as well.


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## Alittlefunnnn (Jan 11, 2012)

cabin fever said:


> I normally don't post here, but just wanted to put my .02 as someone who has been in your shoes.
> 
> 1. You have kids, right? DO NOT LEAVE! Under no circumstances, do not leave, for your kids sake. your lawyer should tell you this.
> 
> ...


1. You have kids, right? DO NOT LEAVE! Under no circumstances, do not leave, for your kids sake. your lawyer should tell you this. 

Answer # 1: I have not left. I spoke to a friend yesterday who told me to leave and what I told him is that I loose a ton of rights to the house and kids if I leave. Eve if I'm hurt by her actions, leaving is viewed as abandonment. So I'm not going anywhere until the divorce is final.

2. Get a lawyer. you pay a retainer, they do some work (have her served, draw up papers etc) IF u 2 decide to work it out, you will get back what ever your lawyer hasn't used out of your retainer. In my case I gave her $2500. After 3 months we reconciled, and I got about $1700 back. So it cost me $800. 

Answer # 2: I gave her papers which I filled out after downloading free online forms. Should I still make it more official and have her served?

3. Decide what you really want to know about the affair. I didn't ask for alot of details, cause 1, i already knew most of them, and 2, what difference did it make? she had an affair, and I knew it. Knowing the details wouldn't make it easier for me. 

Answer # 3: It's not a matter of knowing every detail as much as knowing that the WHOLE truth is out. To be completely honest I'm not sure if there is more. I guess I'll never be but I do know that I am not convinced enough to just "get over it" so to speak. I have always needed dialogue to process things. It's how I'm wired. She knows that too so it is not coming as a surprise to her.

4. Cancel all credit cars, and transfer any $$ to a secure account she can't touch. Wanna know how I know this?  Mine started racking up charges on a C.C. I didn't know untill we Reconciled. 

Answer # 4: Do I have a legal right to do this? She has her own (1 store Macys) credit card which is under her name. I'm not 100% certain that I'm legally allowed to do this. Also as far as accounts we have 2 joint accounts which in order to close both of us would need to be present. I am keeping tabs on the finances though and have already run a credit report on her and know that at this time the open accounts are up to date and a non issue.

5. Be preparred to get divorced. Be preparrred to Reconcile at the very end (if thats what you really want) I was ready to be divorced, even laughed when the R was brought up. In the end, I still loved her, we have a kid, and I wanted to be with my family. 

Answer # 5: At very first I thought of this more as a threat but I realize that nothing changes unless there are consequences. The consequence for not being open and honest is divorce. I can compromise on a lot of things but respect is not one I care to entertain any longer

6. PROTECT YOURSELF at all costs! Being nice does NOTHING!

Answer # 6: Not sure exactly what you mean by this? 

7. Sounds like YOU (as in you, yourself, and only you) are having a tough time with this. You want answers, and she doesn't want to talk about it. You 2 need to find a common meeting ground, where you both get what you want. 

Answer # 7: I don't think this is easy for her but I do think this is the situation she put herself in. The free passes are over. In reality this is a negotiation. She wants to get away with giving up as little truth about who she really has been and I want to know who she really has always been. If I settle for much less the the entire truth then I will never even come close to the truth. I feel she won't give me the entire truth regardless but I can work with the most. I know we're not there yet.

8. do the 180! its hard as hell, but it works! 

Answer # 8: I think i've done this. Can't completely say I have done it by looking at the list one by one and checking them off but it's a version or my understanding of how I am capable of doing the 180.

9. One last thing to consider........She doesn't want to devoulge the truth for 1 of 2 reasons. 1 she is worried about hurting you more, and losing you......2. she is embarrassed to talk about it. I'M NOT SAYING SHE IS RIGHT, but understanding where she is coming from, can help you get the answers you want, in a way that she can open up about. 

Answer # 9: In all honesty I think it is a combination of both but I've spent too much time worrying about how/why/what she is doing something for. In order for me to see that she's truly remorseful I need to see that she is willing to be judged based on all the facts. She's got to be willing to lose me because of her actions if she wants a chance of me accepting her actions. I believe her fear come more from the fact that she doesn't want me to have the upper hand in the marriage after her having the upper hand for so long.


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## Lone Star (Feb 2, 2012)

ALF, I understand what you are going through, I'm in the same situation with the exception that I did file for divorce even though my H claimed as of last week he didn't know I filed, didn't understand the documents he was served. My H is not a stupid man but he seems to just keep lying. You are in a tough place and I hope that you can find a way through this in a way that you feel is best for you and your children.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

ALF, you can always remarry down the road after she gets some good, REAL therapy and realizes how selfish and self-serving she's been and discovers true remorse. For now, you owe it to your kids to move forward on the divorce. You can always cancel it if she comes around. Consider the money spent on the lawyer as either a necessary expense to save your soul or a really good counselor (i.e. wakeup call) for your wife. Either way, you win.

I have a website for you to go to; lots of good stuff for men. It's called bettermen.org.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

I agree with cabin fever. 

Look at yourself. Will you be okay if she divulges more details? She may not give you full details for reasons cabin fever has already mentioned.

If YOU love her and are ready to give another chance, dont consider D or R for some more time. Do 180 and stay. If things get worse, D. Otherwise, R. R should happen after you are okay with her.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

ALF,

You are on the right track. You have waited long enough for answers. And when the WS has had the upper hand for so long they will fight to keep it even when they know they are wrong.

Stay tough. If she will not budge or look at the paperwork then see an attorney and have her served.

I am pro R but sometimes when they have lied for so long you have to throw D on the table. Sometimes you get remorse from the WS sometimes they are cowards, take the easy way out and move forward with the divorce.

Only time will tell you. And you deserve better.

Good Lucka nd Keep Posting.

HM64


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## Alittlefunnnn (Jan 11, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> ALF,
> 
> You are on the right track. You have waited long enough for answers. And when the WS has had the upper hand for so long they will fight to keep it even when they know they are wrong.
> 
> ...


Thanks Happyman. I believe in reconciliation as well but not at the expense of mutual respect. There is no upper hand in respect. It's not a game where you keep score. I guess when you're used to "winning" you forget that.

She just texted me something about my sister's kid. The first communication since last night. She's obviously going to try to avoid the topic and try to move forward like it's a bluff.


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## calif_hope (Feb 25, 2011)

Your in the middle if a game of 'chicken' - hold your ground and proceed with the divorce talk/action, she will cave.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

As far as the finances go, you can always leave your joint accounts open. Just open a new account in your name only and have your pay direct deposited into that one. 

You may not be able to get to any money that is in the joint accounts without her there, but you can sure keep her from getting access to any more of your paycheck monies! 

I'm not going to comment on the threat-of-divorce stuff. You all know what I'll say...


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

What I don't understand is how you are going to know when she is telling the truth. From what I have gathered, you don't believe her but you have no proof she is not telling the truth. You have put you both in a no win situation.

It looks like you will only believe her if it gets worse.

Do the poly, period.


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## Alittlefunnnn (Jan 11, 2012)

chapparal said:


> What I don't understand is how you are going to know when she is telling the truth. From what I have gathered, you don't believe her but you have no proof she is not telling the truth. You have put you both in a no win situation.
> 
> It looks like you will only believe her if it gets worse.
> 
> Do the poly, period.


Chapral, I don't believe that's the case at all. Had I simply thought like that from the beginning, then I would have believed the first lie about it just being a 1 time e-mail thing and I would still be oblivious. It's not a matter of it getting worse to believe it or be satisfied. What I need to see is not more truth but no blame shifting, gas lighting and minimal remorse. 

The satisfaction, if you want to call it that, will be seeing true remorse by her words COMBINED with her actions. The advantage I have now that I did not have previously was being able to understand the different techniques cheaters use such as blame shifting, gas lighting and so forth. 

If she's being honest, truly honest, then remorse should come with ease. Not making excuses and OWNING it should come with ease. 

The only ones in a no win situation are my kids. Not me. Not my wife.


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## Alittlefunnnn (Jan 11, 2012)

Had a pretty bad day yesterday emotionally. I keep trying to phrase the conversation in my head the right way when I explain to my two girls that mom and daddy won't be together anymore. I feel a horrible sadness knowing that i'm pulling the carpet from under them. They have no idea and in technical terms "I'm" the one who is going to make this happen. All things considered I know it is not me who has done this to all of us but it is me putting a stop to it. 

I'm struggling with that so much that even writing this while sitting at my desk at work I've had to walk away 3 times because my eyes fill up with tears when I see my kids faces. I have never seen them as sad as they are eventually going to be. 

It's just tough.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

"Daughters, mommies and daddies are supposed to love each other and only date each other after they get married. But mommy has found another boyfriend to date, and you can't stay together as a family when mommy has two boyfriends. So mommy and I are going to have two different houses for you to live in, sometimes with mommy and sometimes with me. But we still love you both very much."


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## Alittlefunnnn (Jan 11, 2012)

turnera said:


> "Daughters, mommies and daddies are supposed to love each other and only date each other after they get married. But mommy has found another boyfriend to date, and you can't stay together as a family when mommy has two boyfriends. So mommy and I are going to have two different houses for you to live in, sometimes with mommy and sometimes with me. But we still love you both very much."


Thanks for that but not the way I would like to go about telling a 4 and 2 year old. It's not that I don't want to tell them or that I won't have to tell them. I'm just having difficulty processing the sadness they will feel from this. I've had a year to process it and am mature enough to deal with certain emotions in a constructive way. The same can't be said of a 2 & 4 year old. My outlook on marriage is definitely not the same as it once was but when I tell them their outlook on daily routine in general will not be the same. It's an emotional scar they will have to deal with and THAT is what I am struggling with. 

Thanks again though.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Alittlefunnnn said:


> Thanks for that but not the way I would like to go about telling a 4 and 2 year old. It's not that I don't want to tell them or that I won't have to tell them. I'm just having difficulty processing the sadness they will feel from this. I've had a year to process it and am mature enough to deal with certain emotions in a constructive way. The same can't be said of a 2 & 4 year old. My outlook on marriage is definitely not the same as it once was but when I tell them their outlook on daily routine in general will not be the same. It's an emotional scar they will have to deal with and THAT is what I am struggling with.
> 
> Thanks again though.


I feel for you. Just remember that you have to tell them something and you need to tell the truth in a way they can understand. Children remember things. If you hide information they will remember in the future and it will be harder then. They will of course be sad but they will also remember that you were honest. As long as they know that they can trust you to be honest with them most problems can be solved. I'm so sorry you are going through this.

Have you discussed with your wife what you are going to tell them? How does she feel about it? Does she realize that her stubbornness and dishonesty is going to cause her children so much pain?


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## Alittlefunnnn (Jan 11, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> I feel for you. Just remember that you have to tell them something and you need to tell the truth in a way they can understand. Children remember things. If you hide information they will remember in the future and it will be harder then. They will of course be sad but they will also remember that you were honest. As long as they know that they can trust you to be honest with them most problems can be solved. I'm so sorry you are going through this.
> 
> Have you discussed with your wife what you are going to tell them? How does she feel about it? Does she realize that her stubbornness and dishonesty is going to cause her children so much pain?


Beowulf, I have not discussed anything with my wife. I gave her a week (tomorrow is deadline day) for her to be honest. That was the last discussion/conversation I had with her. Texted a couple of times, all initiated by her. Mostly things like "For what it's worth, I love you", "For what it's worth, I haven't told my family about divorcing", "For what it's worth, I'm sorry it has come to this", "Do you still love me?". All have either gone unanswered by me or she has gotten "The only thing worth anything to me is HONESTY. It's the only thing I put stock in these days". 

Really I would think she has not thought at all of what this will do to the kids otherwise any reasonable person would not be so stubborn. It all doesn't make sense of course it shouldn't because I have never shown the type of selfishness she has.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Beowulf said:


> I feel for you. Just remember that you have to tell them something and you need to tell the truth in a way they can understand. Children remember things. If you hide information they will remember in the future and it will be harder then. They will of course be sad but they will also remember that you were honest. As long as they know that they can trust you to be honest with them most problems can be solved.


I strongly disagree. Young children base their self-view on their view of their parents. That's why children at very young ages think their parents are perfect. Telling children that age the truth, that mommy was cheating on daddy, is telling them that mommy's not a good person. And that's the same as telling them that they're not good people.

As for how to tell the children, John Rosemond is a parenting guru that I have a lot of respect for. He has a column addressing that point that I completely agree with.
The Spokesman-Review - Google News Archive Search


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Alittlefunnnn said:


> Beowulf, I have not discussed anything with my wife. I gave her a week (tomorrow is deadline day) for her to be honest. That was the last discussion/conversation I had with her. Texted a couple of times, all initiated by her. Mostly things like "For what it's worth, I love you", "For what it's worth, I haven't told my family about divorcing", "For what it's worth, I'm sorry it has come to this", "Do you still love me?". All have either gone unanswered by me or she has gotten "The only thing worth anything to me is HONESTY. It's the only thing I put stock in these days".
> 
> Really I would think she has not thought at all of what this will do to the kids otherwise any reasonable person would not be so stubborn. It all doesn't make sense of course it shouldn't because I have never shown the type of selfishness she has.


Once your deadline passes is there a mediator type that you could both go to where this subject can be brought up? Maybe that will drill it home to her. She needs to know what her attitude is doing to the family. I don't know what the answer is but I agree that telling the children will be the most difficult situation. God, I'm starting to get choked up just talking about it. After my D-day I remember thinking about telling my young son and how hard it would be. Thankfully we were able to R but that emotional memory just came bubbling to the surface.


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## Alittlefunnnn (Jan 11, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> Once your deadline passes is there a mediator type that you could both go to where this subject can be brought up? Maybe that will drill it home to her. She needs to know what her attitude is doing to the family. I don't know what the answer is but I agree that telling the children will be the most difficult situation. God, I'm starting to get choked up just talking about it. After my D-day I remember thinking about telling my young son and how hard it would be. Thankfully we were able to R but that emotional memory just came bubbling to the surface.


Beowolf, I think of the topic and immediately my oldest daughters face pops up and i just see her sad. It's literally the worst feeling I have ever felt. I've done SO MANY things right to make their lives better and happier and now I have to do this to them? How do I make up for that? Sure in the long run they'll know but right now, this moment, it's just a terrible feeling.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Alittlefunnnn said:


> Beowolf, I think of the topic and immediately my oldest daughters face pops up and i just see her sad. It's literally the worst feeling I have ever felt. I've done SO MANY things right to make their lives better and happier and now I have to do this to them? How do I make up for that? Sure in the long run they'll know but right now, this moment, it's just a terrible feeling.


As men we always want to fix everything. A problem arises and we immediately try to come up with the solution. Unfortunately sometimes there isn't one. In this case the only one that can fix the problem is your wife and from what you have said she doesn't want to.

You have already given her a deadline to come clean. If she is insisting that she has told the complete truth I assume you have already discussed a polygraph with her. What was her reaction? I believe she has rejected your demand for complete transparency. This I don't understand. My fWW had her affair 20 years ago and everything of hers is still open to me. There are no secrets or privacy in a marriage. That's the part that I don't get.

I only mentions these things because I know how hard it will be for you to tell your children. God, I hate this stuff.


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## Alittlefunnnn (Jan 11, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> As men we always want to fix everything. A problem arises and we immediately try to come up with the solution. Unfortunately sometimes there isn't one. In this case the only one that can fix the problem is your wife and from what you have said she doesn't want to.
> 
> You have already given her a deadline to come clean. If she is insisting that she has told the complete truth I assume you have already discussed a polygraph with her. What was her reaction? I believe she has rejected your demand for complete transparency. This I don't understand. My fWW had her affair 20 years ago and everything of hers is still open to me. There are no secrets or privacy in a marriage. That's the part that I don't get.
> 
> I only mentions these things because I know how hard it will be for you to tell your children. God, I hate this stuff.


Beowulf, I have discussed a polygraph and her response was that SHE didn't need me to take one. She said that she doesn't think that it is productive when it comes to rebuilding trust. I told her that I did need HER to take one in order to move forward and TRY to rebuild trust. I did tell her I had no idea where we could go take one, although I already did, and she said she would. 

As far as transparency I have her password for work and personal e-mail.I have access to her phone, except for last week since the ultimatum was given, but I do have access to the phone records (texts and calls) from the wireless account through internet. I can check the phone bill once it is created monthly is what I'm trying to say. Facebook accounts have been closed. The only thing that bothers me about the internet use (i.e. e-mails) is that before she got her iphone she would check all of her email on the laptop where I installed the keylogger but now checks all of her mail via her phone. Granted I can still check her e-mail remotely from the laptop but it's very easy to write an e-mail on a phone to someone and immediately delete it. Not that I have reason to suspect she's in contact with anyone but the change in behavior of how she accessed her mail then and now has definitely changed. I've checked the history on internet use on the iphone but haven't found anything except that she's checking her e-mail on it. I researched if there was a way to delete specific pages accessed on the iphone WITHOUT erasing the entire history for the day and don't believe it's possible. I also have a VAR in the car that she's obviously not aware of and I have not heard any conversations or anything going on in the car. 

I firmly believe that once a person cheats and learns to cheat they will more likely cheat again UNLESS they really acknowledge and take responsibility for their actions. I don't believe my wife has done that fully based on different conversation and actions that I have seen. If she thinks that "Oh he got over it" then it is only human nature to believe "he'll get over this too". This is why to me OWNING your actions while trying to reconcile is ESSENTIAL.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Alittlefunnnn said:


> Beowulf, I have discussed a polygraph and her response was that SHE didn't need me to take one. She said that she doesn't think that it is productive when it comes to rebuilding trust. I told her that I did need HER to take one in order to move forward and TRY to rebuild trust. I did tell her I had no idea where we could go take one, although I already did, and she said she would.
> 
> As far as transparency I have her password for work and personal e-mail.I have access to her phone, except for last week since the ultimatum was given, but I do have access to the phone records (texts and calls) from the wireless account through internet. I can check the phone bill once it is created monthly is what I'm trying to say. Facebook accounts have been closed. The only thing that bothers me about the internet use (i.e. e-mails) is that before she got her iphone she would check all of her email on the laptop where I installed the keylogger but now checks all of her mail via her phone. Granted I can still check her e-mail remotely from the laptop but it's very easy to write an e-mail on a phone to someone and immediately delete it. Not that I have reason to suspect she's in contact with anyone but the change in behavior of how she accessed her mail then and now has definitely changed. I've checked the history on internet use on the iphone but haven't found anything except that she's checking her e-mail on it. I researched if there was a way to delete specific pages accessed on the iphone WITHOUT erasing the entire history for the day and don't believe it's possible. I also have a VAR in the car that she's obviously not aware of and I have not heard any conversations or anything going on in the car.
> 
> I firmly believe that once a person cheats and learns to cheat they will more likely cheat again UNLESS they really acknowledge and take responsibility for their actions. I don't believe my wife has done that fully based on different conversation and actions that I have seen. If she thinks that "Oh he got over it" then it is only human nature to believe "he'll get over this too". This is why to me OWNING your actions while trying to reconcile is ESSENTIAL.


Unless she was joking (and a poor joke it would be considering everything) her saying *SHE* didn't need *YOU* to take a polygraph is beyond contemptible given the situation. I can see why you would question whether she was remorseful.

Depending on the type of phone I think there are computer programs that can recover even deleted emails, texts and possibly browser history as well. If she is truly remorseful she would not only not object to this but would encourage you to check.

You are absolutely correct. If my fWW had not completely and fully accepted responsibility for her actions and demonstrated remorse through actions I would have divorced her. Part of demonstrating remorse is complete honesty and disclosure. I got that, if I didn't I could never have stayed with her.

All this is of course a moot point if she is not really actively working to make you comfortable in the relationship and doing the heavy lifting to avoid divorce. She needs to convince you to stay with her. If she isn't doing everything to achieve this then you really do have only one recourse. Maybe once she is served the paperwork she will start to take things a bit more seriously. I would wait to tell your children until you absolutely have to and I would make sure you actively engage your wife in a conversation about how to do that so she will realize the pain your are feeling now and maybe she will see the damage she has caused and is still causing.


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## Alittlefunnnn (Jan 11, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> Unless she was joking (and a poor joke it would be considering everything) her saying *SHE* didn't need *YOU* to take a polygraph is beyond contemptible given the situation. I can see why you would question whether she was remorseful.
> 
> Depending on the type of phone I think there are computer programs that can recover even deleted emails, texts and possibly browser history as well. If she is truly remorseful she would not only not object to this but would encourage you to check.
> 
> ...


Beowulf, I told her that Friday (tomorrow) we'll need to discuss living arrangements and speaking to the kids. This morning she asked me if I had taken a check from the checkbook and I told her I did and it was for $2500 I needed to give the lawyer as a retainer. The look on her face and attitude changed automatically. 

The fact that she hasn't told her family anything yet, considering how much information she usually gives them about our status, is either because she doesn't take this serious or because she's taking it so seriously that she's in limbo as to how and what to tell them. Or maybe it's just a mixture of both but I think I definitely have her attention. 

I'm not saying anything to my kids until the final nail is in the coffin. I read the article PHTLump posted and it confirms that it is best to do it once there isn't even the slimmest of chances. 

I guess now it's just waiting time......


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## Tover26 (Oct 29, 2011)

My wife told me she wanted a divorce, in front of our 9 year and 5 year old daughters, back in September 2011. It was a dark day. I feel like I have moved mountains to rebuild the kids and have been surprised at how resilient they are. They aren't the same kids they used to be, but they aren't nearly as damaged as I would have thought. 

Here's a truth for you to ponder... time is a great healer. If you divorce, everyone gets hurt... you, wife, kids. If you stay together in a state of continuous tension and mistrust, you, your wife, and kids remain hurt every day. There is no healing. Kids are resilient and will heal. Time will show them that life and love move on. You will be a better father independent and happy if divorced, same as if reconciled and happy. 

I chose to sit on the fence till the trickle truth stopped rather than risk a joint custody situation that exposed my daughters to "things". Along the way, I gave ultimatums, made a few compromises, and last week we signed a postnup and are moving to reconciliation. Wife did 3 polygraphs and had inconclusive on certain sexual questions, which is really just the same as failing to me. To get the polygraphs there was an imminent threat of divorce and separation. To get the postnup there was an imminent threat of separation and divorce. As my actions ramped up to those, my wife got more sincere about taking it all seriously.

Are things perfect? Hell no. Reconciliation is waaaayyyyy harder than divorce, but lets be real - the best possible outcome is that my daugthers grow up in a home with their parents who love each other and see that we tackled good times and bad, and worked it out. It feels like a pipe dream right now... like buying a lotto ticket. 

Be strong and honorable.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

She hasn't told her family because she's ashamed of herself. Offer to tell them for her, if she won't go get the polygraph. You need to take the lead and be strong right now. NO concesssions.


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## Alittlefunnnn (Jan 11, 2012)

turnera said:


> She hasn't told her family because she's ashamed of herself. Offer to tell them for her, if she won't go get the polygraph. You need to take the lead and be strong right now. NO concesssions.


That's the next step. It's all deadlines and ultimatums from this point forward. 

She, of course, tried to spin it that she didn't want them viewing me different because of how much of a liar I have been in trying to catch her lying. Basically she thought I was as big a liar as her because I lied to trap her while catching her in a lie. 

Had a major talk last night and although satisfied with the words i'm still too emotionally charged to be able to dissect all that was spoken about.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Actions, not words. Stop talking. Talking is just her way of getting more of what SHE wants.


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## Alittlefunnnn (Jan 11, 2012)

turnera said:


> Actions, not words. Stop talking. Talking is just her way of getting more of what SHE wants.


Maybe that's something I need to continue to work on.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Alittlefunnnn said:


> Maybe that's something I need to continue to work on.


Don't feel bad. It's something we all need to continue to work on.


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