# On the precipice of losing it; how did it get this bad?



## MBenjamin (Nov 28, 2021)

My wife and I are both 39, we've been together for 19 years with three kids. We've had our share of problems over the years, there were two instances of infidelity on her part that we worked through. A contributing cause to these was my lack of attention and interest towards her. I know that this is not an excuse for someone to be unfaithful, but I also have come to understand exactly where she was in her head and chose to forgive and attempt to move on.

I never really corrected my issues and she informed me a few days ago that she was not happy and wanted to separate and attend marriage counseling. Through the discussion, I acknowledged that I hadn't changed over the years and I recognized that our relationship was one of roommates not spouses. She said that words and me simply acknowledging that wouldn't be enough this time and that she wanted the counseling and a break for both of us to work on ourselves as well as the relationship. I genuinely love her and want to save the relationship and am willing to go through counseling as well as the separation if that is what it will take.

I admit that I've got some serious mental issues to work through. It's a combination of resentment from the cheating, indifference to her which I get from my father, a short temper, and anxiety that causes me to tunnel inward blocking everyone out. In addition, I acknowledge that I am fairly self-centered and never think of her first. There are a host of other character flaws that I have that I am aware of and want to correct. I plan on attending a therapist of my own to correct my own issues as I feel that I can't be a good husband to her if I don't respect myself.

As far as she goes, she feels broken down, like another person. We've both made sacrifices for my career and now I'm sitting in a comfortable six figure management position. She has a good job but feels like she put her own career and dreams on hold and doesn't believe that she will ever get a chance to act. She has been putting up with my actions and attitude for the last ten years or so and thinks that she may be irreparably damaged.

She still loves me and says that she wants the outcome of all of this to be us staying together. I am a little leery of the separation but did mention that I want to wait and see what the therapist recommends before we make that move.

Since the discussion, we've both got approval for individual counseling through our employee assistance program and will set up appointments this next week. We still need to find a couples counselor to go to.

It is tough right now, we are still in the same house, in the same bed. We've had a few nights where we stayed up late and had some good conversation, we even had sex one night, but both acknowledge that it doesn't change anything.

Bottom line, we both want the marriage to work. She's admitted as much. The path to that isn't clear right now though. I am hoping that once we meet with a therapist together it will become easier for us to see what we need to do.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

MBenjamin said:


> My wife and I are both 39, we've been together for 19 years with three kids. We've had our share of problems over the years, there were two instances of infidelity on her part that we worked through. A contributing cause to these was my lack of attention and interest towards her. I know that this is not an excuse for someone to be unfaithful, but I also have come to understand exactly where she was in her head and chose to forgive and attempt to move on.
> 
> I never really corrected my issues and she informed me a few days ago that she was not happy and wanted to separate and attend marriage counseling. Through the discussion, I acknowledged that I hadn't changed over the years and I recognized that our relationship was one of roommates not spouses. She said that words and me simply acknowledging that wouldn't be enough this time and that she wanted the counseling and a break for both of us to work on ourselves as well as the relationship. I genuinely love her and want to save the relationship and am willing to go through counseling as well as the separation if that is what it will take.
> 
> ...


So she cheated on you TWICE, and you keep taking her back? and somehow the narrative is that you are the primary problem in your marriage?

You need to take control of your situation immediately and not let your wife dictate the terms of your marriage and eventual divorce - because that’s where it’s going.

DO NOT allow a separation, period. 
A separation is only a way to:

ease into a divorce at her convenience, and/or 
try out another man/men. Do not allow a separation. She can work on her issues at home, as your wife. You can give her some space without a separation. 
She’s either your wife or she’s not. Do not tolerate anything in between. 
If she insists she needs a separation to figure things out, YOU file for divorce immediately - because that is what she is choosing. She just wants to do it at her convenience. 
If she insists on a separation, she is choosing to no longer be your wife, respond accordingly. 
You need to act immediately in your own best interest.


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## MBenjamin (Nov 28, 2021)

DudeInProgress said:


> So she cheated on you TWICE, and you keep taking her back? and somehow the narrative is that you are the primary problem in your marriage?
> 
> You need to take control of your situation immediately and not let your wife dictate the terms of your marriage and eventual divorce - because that’s where it’s going.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the response, I appreciate all perspectives. Taking her back from infidelity was my choice. That was over 9 years ago and to this day I have never regretted my choice. Does it still hurt? Sometimes, but it got easier every year that passed. Our problems right now have nothing to do with infidelity and everything to do with damage that we've been inflicting on each other from the start.

I agree that I'm not 100% about the separation and want to discuss it with the counselor first. I am willing to do whatever it takes to save our marriage, even if that is where it goes. Not every separation ends in divorce. I would hope though that we can find a way to work things out under the same roof.

Regarding taking control, it's funny because I have been the one controlling everything this entire time. I chased my dream and left her behind. I shut down everything that she wanted to do for reasons including that it was just not convenient for me. From where I'm sitting, her taking control and dictating something is probably what she needs to heal. She has trouble standing up to me so this is a big step for her.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Buddy I take no pleasure in telling you this but you are a weak man. Actually you are one of the weakest people I’ve ever came across.
Your self esteem is in the gutter. You need to work on yourself with the help of either a psychologist or some other mental health professional. 
And you need to get rid of the lying, cheating, manipulative, gaslighting woman who for some unknown reasons you are married to.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

It wasn't clear to me from your post, what your question is, if any.



MBenjamin said:


> I admit that I've got some serious mental issues to work through. It's a combination of resentment from the cheating


So you have not entirely forgiven. 



> indifference to her which I get from my father


Indifference? I'm not sure what you mean. If you're indifferent, why stay with her? Or do you mean you took no interest in her life? You want her, but have no curiosity about her?



> a short temper, and anxiety


they go together



> anxiety that causes me to tunnel inward blocking everyone out.


So what is it you're anxious about? Being exposed?


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

Separation is cheaterspeak for wanting you out of the way so she can bang another guy. Bet you a Ben Franklin she has her eyes on someone else.

Keep your eyes and ears open.

Two time cheater......hmmmm


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## MBenjamin (Nov 28, 2021)

Laurentium said:


> It wasn't clear to me from your post, what your question is, if any.


Sorry, I'm not sure if I'm really asking anything at this point. Just trying to stir discussion. I think the path forward is fairly clear, but it helps to talk about things.



> So you have not entirely forgiven.


It's weird isn't it? I don't care about the two incidents. They happened over 9 years ago. For the most part it doesn't bother me but about once a year or so, I see or think something and the memory comes back. 


> Indifference? I'm not sure what you mean. If you're indifferent, why stay with her? Or do you mean you took no interest in her life? You want her, but have no curiosity about her?
> 
> they go together
> 
> So what is it you're anxious about? Being exposed?


Ignoring her wants and needs. Holding her back at the advancement of myself. Not listening to things that were important to her. Focusing on myself always.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Thanks. When I said "being exposed" I guess I meant something like "being seen by her (or other people)".


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

MBenjamin said:


> Thanks for the response, I appreciate all perspectives. Taking her back from infidelity was my choice. That was over 9 years ago and to this day I have never regretted my choice. Does it still hurt? Sometimes, but it got easier every year that passed. Our problems right now have nothing to do with infidelity and everything to do with damage that we've been inflicting on each other from the start.
> 
> I agree that I'm not 100% about the separation and want to discuss it with the counselor first. I am willing to do whatever it takes to save our marriage, even if that is where it goes. Not every separation ends in divorce. I would hope though that we can find a way to work things out under the same roof.
> 
> Regarding taking control, it's funny because I have been the one controlling everything this entire time. I chased my dream and left her behind. I shut down everything that she wanted to do for reasons including that it was just not convenient for me. From where I'm sitting, her taking control and dictating something is probably what she needs to heal. She has trouble standing up to me so this is a big step for her.


With all due respect, she cheated on you at least two times that you are aware of.
I'm not so sure that you are in control of anything.
You need to actually take control.
She needs some time by herself. Fine.
Compromise would be for her to have her own bedroom in your house.
She wants to leave your dwelling, file for divorce.
Then you will really see how much she really wants to be married to you.
If she responds in a way that demonstrates that she wants to stay together, follow through with therapy for each of you, and MC for the both of you. 
If not, just lick your wounds, do the work to square yourself and be a better person/husband, and move on. Find another person, start with a clean slate, and strive not to repeat your errors.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

I don't see you as weak, I see you as calculating.
You are too cool, too, self reflecting.

She likely wants to see if she can make it on her own.
She wants a taste of freedom, that same freedom she sought years ago, when she cheated.

Let her go.

She is miserable, you are unsettled.
Sour lemons, vs., bland Kumquats


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

This really hits home. Some big similarities to my situation. Only she only cheated once (not physically), not twice. And we are generally happier than you guys are and not contemplating a separation.

But the lack of attention, not putting her first, the indifference, and this being the "reason" for infidelity is exactly the same. 

I have really not been able to change that much. I'm in control of my temper. But the anxiety comes out from time to time, and my attention to her hasn't improved much. I think you and I are likely mildly narcissistic, always in our own heads, and not "in the room" enough.

Honestly, I think my wife has just gotten more numb to it, and is less needy of me than she used to be. 

Sometimes people just are who they are, and "changing" is just stuff we do around the edges. It's very difficult to change your core.

Are you an only child?


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## MBenjamin (Nov 28, 2021)

Gabriel said:


> This really hits home. Some big similarities to my situation. Only she only cheated once (not physically), not twice. And we are generally happier than you guys are and not contemplating a separation.
> 
> But the lack of attention, not putting her first, the indifference, and this being the "reason" for infidelity is exactly the same.
> 
> ...


No, I've got quite a few siblings. You said something interesting about your wife becoming less needy of you. One of the things that my wife told me was that she put up with it for so long because she felt that she needed me and that a few months ago she realized that she didn't need me any more. You may be headed to this same place.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

MBenjamin said:


> My wife and I are both 39, we've been together for 19 years with three kids. We've had our share of problems over the years, there were two instances of infidelity on her part that we worked through. A contributing cause to these was my lack of attention and interest towards her. I know that this is not an excuse for someone to be unfaithful, but I also have come to understand exactly where she was in her head and chose to forgive and attempt to move on.
> 
> I never really corrected my issues and she informed me a few days ago that she was not happy and wanted to separate and attend marriage counseling. Through the discussion, I acknowledged that I hadn't changed over the years and I recognized that our relationship was one of roommates not spouses. She said that words and me simply acknowledging that wouldn't be enough this time and that she wanted the counseling and a break for both of us to work on ourselves as well as the relationship. I genuinely love her and want to save the relationship and am willing to go through counseling as well as the separation if that is what it will take.
> 
> ...


All you can do is try counseling and therapy and see how it goes. If both of you are willing, there is always hope. It's hard to change behavior patterns you may have had since childhood, but at least you might come to understand the origin and the triggers and learn to attempt to act differently at those times. Good luck.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

The indifference and lack of interest: did you like or love this woman? I’m really glad that you’re showing insight into your own flaws and character, that helps to see both sides. The paradox though, you want to stay with her? I agree with a poster that something seems so cold and bland in your description of her, she seems like a non-person in your life… I do not feel any emotion towards this woman. You fairly talk about indifference towards her.

everyone is interesting you know. Everyone. I can’t imagine what it must have been like for her, wanting to feel adored and gorgeous and interesting, and then that wasn’t working out, so she probably tried harder and harder, tried to find subjects to talk about that interested you, tried everything to see a spark in your eye. I’m not sure this is good for her at all. She might be finally pulling out the last chance she has, you may be lucky here, I think she’s giving it one more try.

Do you find people interesting in general? Be honest too, are you just not into her and do you have a preferred type of woman?


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> All you can do is try counseling and therapy and see how it goes.


This is not an easy thing to change.



DownByTheRiver said:


> It's hard to change behavior patterns you may have had since childhood,


It's not even just external behavior patterns. It's the habit of thinking, about another person, "_I wonder what this seems like to him/her_". To strive to see another's point of view. I have my viewpoint; you have yours. I like broccoli; you dislike broccoli; I wonder what that's like for you.

Just learning to recite the correct words and perform the correct actions isn't enough.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Laurentium said:


> This is not an easy thing to change.
> 
> 
> It's not even just external behavior patterns. It's the habit of thinking, about another person, "_I wonder what this seems like to him/her_". To strive to see another's point of view. I have my viewpoint; you have yours. I like broccoli; you dislike broccoli; I wonder what that's like for you.
> ...


However, thoughts follow actions if you're persistent enough.


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## MBenjamin (Nov 28, 2021)

Luckylucky said:


> The indifference and lack of interest: did you like or love this woman? I’m really glad that you’re showing insight into your own flaws and character, that helps to see both sides. The paradox though, you want to stay with her? I agree with a poster that something seems so cold and bland in your description of her, she seems like a non-person in your life… I do not feel any emotion towards this woman. You fairly talk about indifference towards her.
> 
> everyone is interesting you know. Everyone. I can’t imagine what it must have been like for her, wanting to feel adored and gorgeous and interesting, and then that wasn’t working out, so she probably tried harder and harder, tried to find subjects to talk about that interested you, tried everything to see a spark in your eye. I’m not sure this is good for her at all. She might be finally pulling out the last chance she has, you may be lucky here, I think she’s giving it one more try.
> 
> Do you find people interesting in general? Be honest too, are you just not into her and do you have a preferred type of woman?


You hit the nail on the head. Its this cognitive dissonance where I know deep in my heart that I love her but I don't show it. Every time she reached out, I wasn't there to take her hand. She's said as much, I don't have any interests in things that interest her, nor have we really connected on one thing in a while. Being married with kids is not enough to sustain two people without something deeper. I see that now. 

It does go beyond just this relationship and extends to my relationships with others. I am very independent, I would say that I've maybe got one close friend that I rarely see. He's the type of guy though that can go months without talking and we just pick right back up where we left off. At the risk of self diagnosing myself, I may be borderline narcissistic.


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## Trident (May 23, 2018)

You sort of gloss over the infidelities- which is a huge part of the problem, if not a dealbreaker.

What does "two incidents 9 years ago even mean?". That could be anything from "she admitted she screwed a guy twice" to "she had two long affairs with two different guys".

It can matter.

And as suggested above- you probably don't know the whole story. Cheaters are liars by their very nature, and tend to only disclose what they HAVE to disclose. 

Maybe you haven't forgiven and you hold the anger because she never really came clean?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

MBenjamin said:


> Thanks for the response, I appreciate all perspectives. Taking her back from infidelity was my choice. That was over 9 years ago and to this day I have never regretted my choice. Does it still hurt? Sometimes, but it got easier every year that passed. Our problems right now have nothing to do with infidelity and everything to do with damage that we've been inflicting on each other from the start.
> 
> I agree that I'm not 100% about the separation and want to discuss it with the counselor first. I am willing to do whatever it takes to save our marriage, even if that is where it goes. Not every separation ends in divorce. I would hope though that we can find a way to work things out under the same roof.
> 
> Regarding taking control, it's funny because I have been the one controlling everything this entire time. I chased my dream and left her behind. I shut down everything that she wanted to do for reasons including that it was just not convenient for me. From where I'm sitting, her taking control and dictating something is probably what she needs to heal. She has trouble standing up to me so this is a big step for her.


You need to take control of the only person you can indeed control; yourself. 

She's planning her exit and will leave you when she's ready, on her timetable. And you'll act all surprised.

Be aware of what's happening.


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## MBenjamin (Nov 28, 2021)

Trident said:


> You sort of gloss over the infidelities- which is a huge part of the problem, if not a dealbreaker.
> 
> What does "two incidents 9 years ago even mean?". That could be anything from "she admitted she screwed a guy twice" to "she had two long affairs with two different guys".
> 
> ...


This is true. I am only aware of the two incidents, but with both cases, I got what I believe is the entire story. One of them was with one of my best friends who was so grief stricken that he broke down and told me everything before I even confronted her. It was easier to get it out of her when I already knew the details. The other was very clearly documented in emails that they were sharing with each other.

I don’t believe that you ever forget. All you can do is make a choice like I did. Again, even today, I don’t regret my choices. What is going on right now stands on its own. Maybe I’m a sap. Maybe I’m pathetic, but I’ll have to deal with that.


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## MBenjamin (Nov 28, 2021)

So I took some time and thought about everything. I got some great advice from some people that I trust as well as on here. I decided that while I still want to work things out with my wife, I can't sit around moping waiting for the other shoe to drop. 

She generally handled all of our finances. I took some time this morning and looked through our bills and bank/credit card statements to see what to expect if I end up on my own. Everything is in great order! Based on what I make, I can cover the household payments as well as what I spend on the credit cards and insurance and stuff for the kids. I can do all this and still have like $2,000 left each month for whatever. She makes ~$95k on her own and should be fine. 

In addition, I opened a separate bank account, have individual therapy scheduled for the 21st of this month, signed up for the gym, and am in the process of preparing all of my records in case divorce shows up. I don't expect that it will be too difficult as she has said that since she makes a good salary, she won't come after me for alimony. She may change her mind though so I need to be prepared for everything. 

The biggest thing was how I feel right now. I feel really good, like I am prepared for the future. I may need to do a cash-out refi in order to give her some money from our house but I can work through that. With the current housing prices and low APR, I should be able to get like $150k to give her. 

To be clear, I still intend to whole heartedly work through this with her but I am not going to act like a victim and be carried through this as a passenger.


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## Trident (May 23, 2018)

Why are you waiting for divorce to show up?

She's cheated on you with two guys (that you know about) and from what I can tell from your posts she isn't all that interested in fixing anything.

You just might be better off taking the initiative here and suggesting an amicable divorce.


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## MBenjamin (Nov 28, 2021)

Trident said:


> Why are you waiting for divorce to show up?
> 
> She's cheated on you with two guys (that you know about) and from what I can tell from your posts she isn't all that interested in fixing anything.
> 
> You just might be better off taking the initiative here and suggesting an amicable divorce.


I get your perspective, I've heard a lot of people say the same thing. Every situation is different and there isn't any way that I could convey all of the details and other context on here regarding my choice to stay with her after the infidelity. 

As for divorce, I am a bit different. I feel that I owe it to myself to make every attempt and give her every chance to come around. If she doesn't, that's fine. I know that I will be okay. I'm preparing my escape plan. What I can't do is just walk away without knowing that I did everything that I could to save the marriage. Maybe that makes me weak and a sap but that's just who I am. Part of restoring my self esteem and self respect is doing this. If I just walk away I know that I would forever be second guessing whether I made the right choice or should have given her a chance. At least this way, my conscience is clear and I can move on afterwards.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

MBenjamin said:


> You hit the nail on the head. Its this cognitive dissonance where I know deep in my heart that I love her but I don't show it. Every time she reached out, I wasn't there to take her hand. She's said as much, I don't have any interests in things that interest her, nor have we really connected on one thing in a while. Being married with kids is not enough to sustain two people without something deeper. I see that now.
> 
> It does go beyond just this relationship and extends to my relationships with others. I am very independent, I would say that I've maybe got one close friend that I rarely see. He's the type of guy though that can go months without talking and we just pick right back up where we left off. At the risk of self diagnosing myself, I may be borderline narcissistic.


You know you can't believe her every time she said you weren't there for over and over. She's seeing how much blame you'll take.


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

Never, even agree to a separation. As others have said they are just a trial run at divorce and a reason to see other people.

How exactly can two people work on a marriage when they are living apart?

I'm sure someone will chime in they were once separated and got back together but the fact remains 9 out of 10 separations end in divorce.


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