# Wife...business partner...roommate?



## MrsAmbivalence (Jun 4, 2011)

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I am married a few years now to 2nd husband. We had a child together 7 years ago and subsequently bought a house and I moved myself and my 3 daughters from previous marriage. At that time, we earned equal salaries and he made it clear that he expected me to contribute 50 percent of all of our financial obligations. Fair enough, I thought at the time--we were not married and the relationship was very undefined. A few years later, we were married and the financial arrangements did not change. I found myself struggling financially as I was supporting my three children from previous marriage alone and our mortgage and other expenses were considerable. He, on the other hand, had 70,000 in savings plus a couple of 401k and stocks he had not told me about. Again, I wasn't sure i had the right to balk. They were not his children and he has never had any interest in supporting them in any way. 
I have had several discussions with him about my difficulty and why I thought that it made little sense for us to keep separate finances and accounts. My oldest children have since grown up and left home and I am only supporting my 16 year old but I have accumulated some debt from trying to keep up with my "share" of the bills when I was supporting three kids and one half (our son together). In order to keep things less complicated, I simply had 3/4 of my paycheck directly deposited into his account to cover mortgage, car payment, utilities, childcare, food). With the measly bit left, I had to pay my car insurance, my own credit cards, and support my daughter. I do get a nominal amount of child support sometimes from child's father, but it barely covers school lunch. 
2 weeks ago I was laid off. I was forced to liquidate my 401k as my severance pay would not come for 2 months. My husband decided that since I was getting a lump sum (9,000) I should put in a few extra thousand dollars to "pad" the reserves.
The problem I have is that I fear being left penniless if the marriage goes south (which is a distinct possibility) but also the fact that this speaks to a bigger issue, which is that I cannot count on my husband for financial support in hard times, even when he has much more than I do. 
He said to me some time ago that it was my choice to have my kids so it didn't exempt me from paying 50 percent of the expenses. I contended that it was his choice to marry me with kids and that his money hoarding and never disclosing what he had made me feel that I am not truly his wife, but more of a partner of convenience. 
I don't know if i am being unreasonable, but is this what marriage should be? There are many other significant conflicts in our relationships but this is the one I am trying to address now. 
One more thing to note: My husband has worked for his current employer for 7 years and has never started a 401k. I told him that this decision affects us both if, in fact, he expects to grow old with me. I also wonder if he didn't get one because he didn't want to have to split it with me (community property) in the case of divorce. All of his savings and 401k money are legally his alone as he had those assets prior to marrying me. Our house is under water since we purchased at the height of the bubble so I am clear that in the case of a divorce, I will have spent my entire severance and 401k and he will ride off into the sunset having lost nothing.


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## Allltuvx (Jul 16, 2013)

You do live in a community property state?

You might splurge for a divorce lawyer to ask about these things.

Community property states tend to have more sharing of
marital assets earned during marriage - but get this verified 
by an attorney. They would be able to tell you if saving assets
obtained during the marriage would be yours to divide. That appears unfair he would be able to put all financial burdens on you and not contribute and then walk away with none worse for the wear financially.

You might call one of the women's domestic haven hotlines. They have referrals to free or low cost attorneys. They actually address
all family problems. Not just domestic violence. I had to call due to a stalking stepmother and they referred me to an attorney who gave me excellent advice. They answer the phones quickly and have a network of help.

That is sort of a silly way to spite you with the 401k. He is not contributing now while married but letting it earn far less while married because he believes doing so will keep you from it. He is losing out on making a bigger 401k by making the contributions. Doing this really makes it appear he is planning to be better financially should you both divorce.

I would say he is a business partner and he believes he has it all 
figured out with you ending up with the short end of the stick.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

Your husband is a business partner/roommate.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Yep he's a business partner and a savvy one at that. I wouldn't be surprised if he's funding his retirement secretly just so you don't know about it.

He's made it quite clear that he won't be supporting you. EVER.

Please protect yourself financially.

And no this isn't normal.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

Wow, thats kind of cold. How are you clear of the house? Is the mortgage only in his name?


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## MrsAmbivalence (Jun 4, 2011)

I'm not on the mortgage but I am on the deed. However, we bought at the peak of the mortgage bubble and have been underwater since we bought. We are just about at break-even now but there is no real equity and nothing to take away. 

I didn't know for three years that I was entitled to half of the interest deduction even though I don't get the form. When I found out, I began to take my fair share of the deduction and he was not happy. 

I think the idea about seeing an attorney was right on. I have already pretty much spent up my entire 401k and all that's left is severance. Meanwhile, his savings and retirement accounts are perfectly intact.

VA is a community property state and I have no right to the retirement account money he does have as he earned it prior to our marriage. Savings came from the sale of his house prior to our marriage so i have no claim to any of that either.


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

He's being unfair and unreasonable. Since you had three children, there are more expenses and they are part of his household too. As other note, start creating a list of assets because I am so sure you walk out with nothing; you might be entitled to alimony and a share of assets. 

Since you have very little money, it makes no sense and is unfair for you to use what little assets you have to pad the reserved.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

MrsAmbivalence said:


> I'm not on the mortgage but I am on the deed. However, we bought at the peak of the mortgage bubble and have been underwater since we bought. We are just about at break-even now but there is no real equity and nothing to take away.
> 
> I didn't know for three years that I was entitled to half of the interest deduction even though I don't get the form. When I found out, I began to take my fair share of the deduction and he was not happy.
> 
> ...


I know this is a somewhat old thread, but:

You not being on the mortgage is huge. There is no equity, but you are not on the hook for any shortfall. If he sells the house, he is liable for any unsatisfied debt (either repaying it, or taking the tax hit). If it continues to appreciate, you get 50% without having borne any financial risk.

As far as taking the mortgage interest deduction, are you saying you file taxes separately? If you, I don't think you can take that deduction. You can only take deductions if you were legally obligated to pay the bill (and you aren't since you are not on the mortgage).

That being said, his behavior is not the norm. I'm ambivalent about him not wanting to support his step-kids. But it's really troubling that he doesn't want to support you directly when you got laid off. I agree that your marriage might not last and that you need to protect yourself.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

I am going to take the different view on this one again. 

By chance in you relationship do you ever imply that you want and expect equal rights and treatment to that of any man that he could very well be holding you up to literally? 

That is to say when any woman tells me she wants equal rights to life that I have as a man I feel obligated to let them have it all including the being solely responsible for their past life problems and burdens whether they be emotional financial or other just as I have to be whether I like it or not. 

The point is my wife and I go around on this fairly often. She wants equal say and treatment on the positive aspects of what she sees most any guy having but she does not want the other half of our duties that involve the hard work sacrifice and general self discipline that it takes to manage our lives.

I am not trying to be rude here but open and honest about how us modern men have had to adapt to the equal rights movements of women. When someone wants to be my equal I am thrilled to let them have all the positives (which there are surprisingly few) and all the negatives (which there are a ship load of) to handle on their own just as I have to.

So is he really keeping things from you or is he doing his best to give you as fair and equal chance to sink or swim in life as he would any other male friend that was in your position?


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

I'm also going to take a contrary view here. Yes, I agree that the man's arrangement sounds pretty cold, and that maybe it's not what a "normal" marriage looks like. At the same time, you brought huge financial burdens to the relationship, that's just the hard reality of it. When we think of a "normal" marriage we think of two people starting out in life together, not knowing what will befall them, for better or for worse. But a marriage at your stage in life is a little different. The guy had every right to set up his "rules," and you had every right not to accept them - you could have fought over it, or you could have chosen not to marry him. I couldn't see myself setting up rules as harsh as those, but it was his prerogative to do so. You agreed to a bargain you couldn't and didn't really want to keep up, or perhaps you just didn't think it through.

So what are your options? You can try to convince him to soften up about this, not because some internet jury ruled in your favor, but because he's your husband and he (I hope) loves you. You can also talk to him about downsizing your expenses so that it's easier for you to meet your end of the bargain. You can also leave him and be free of the burden. That's how I see it.


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## Malpheous (May 3, 2013)

My first wife learned the hard way that even though she wasn't on the mortgage or deed, house under water, there is always equity. There is positive equity at times, as well as negative equity. When our house was underwater and we divorce she hollered in court about wanting 'her half'. the judge looked over the paperwork and came to the conclusion that after all was said and one, her half of the equity was to pay me $20k. I let it go in exchange to settle other points of contention.

So no, you aren't clear of the mortgage.

My first wife was a financial train-wreck. When I later remarried, my new wife and I came to the agreement and understanding that we would both contribute evenly while maintaining separated accounts. This is in part for me to feel protected form my past mistakes. It works well for us. If she was financially strapped or unable for some reason I would of course 'suck it up' without a problem. But it helps us both stay focused on meting our commitments.

It sounds as though you both had an arrangement for a period of time prior to marrying. Together 7 and married a few, I assume that to mean that for about 3-4 years you knew the situation and were OK with it. You don't make mention of any agreement to change that upon marrying. 

Keep that in mind. I do agree your husband should be more willing to make a better, more equitable, contingency plan. But you're planning to use that $9k as part of an exit strategy isn't honorable to the spirit of your agreement either.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> At the same time, you brought huge financial burdens to the relationship, that's just the hard reality of it. When we think of a "normal" marriage we think of two people starting out in life together, not knowing what will befall them, for better or for worse. But a marriage at your stage in life is a little different. The guy had every right to set up his "rules," and you had every right not to accept them - you could have fought over it, or you could have chosen not to marry him. I couldn't see myself setting up rules as harsh as those, but it was his prerogative to do so.


That's a common point my wife an I cover in arguments about our finances. We married in our mid 30's with full previous lives before that and all the assets and debts that went with them. 

I have no problems with helping my wife out and encouraging her to work on her problems. What I have some contention with is reburying myself to clean up her past when there is not a lot she can do to help me on mine being I have largely already put forth the effort to fix my mess. 

Even then it not that I totally don't want to help but we made agreement before we married that we would keep each others past separate and work on cleaning up our past messes ourselves. 

Things that have happened since we married are our problems and we work on solving them as a team but that which came before is and will always be something that neither of us can do a lot about for the other person. 



> When I later remarried, my new wife and I came to the agreement and understanding that we would both contribute evenly while maintaining separated accounts. This is in part for me to feel protected form my past mistakes. It works well for us. If she was financially strapped or unable for some reason I would of course 'suck it up' without a problem. But it helps us both stay focused on meting our commitments.


Similar agreements with us as well. We both got screwed by past relationships and had equal agreement and reason to keep our past lives and problems to ourselves. Granted I like helping her out but unfortunately that help or more to the point the balance of that help seems to get taken for granted too often. 



> I moved myself and my 3 daughters from previous marriage.


Given that bit of info don't the girls have a biological father who is required to pay up for their support? If not, Why? 

My wife has a daughter that is 5 from her past who I treat as my own being her biological father has zero interest in her existence. That said one of the biggest financial issues following my wife is that fact that she has put near zero effort into making him uphold his side of the financial obligations or to pay off his half of their former business obligations. 
That in itself is largely what frustrates me. I feel like I am being held responsible for what he should be covering.

If he were dead and had left her with her daughter and pile of business debt I would feel differently about this. However he is not dead she knows exactly where to find him plus he makes a pile of money and could easily pay off his fair share of their past debts plus kick in a some child support but she simply does not feel like pushing it because "it would be too much work for her".  

Seriously he legally and justifiably owes her in the mid 5 digits of money but she feel 'it's not worth the hassle to pursue' whereas riding my butt to help her out is despite the up front knowledge that I spent a lifetime building me up to be who I am now so that I could work the way I do once I started a family. 

I am a nice guy and I try to uphold my side of things above and beyond but I have little reason to work my butt off so that she can continue to ignore the real person who does in fact owe her a pile of money. 

From that personal experience I can in a way plausibly see why the OP's husband may not want to help out at this time. He may very well have near zero justified obligations and the person who does is getting off scott free at his expense. 
Just a guess though.


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## Tmj4477 (May 3, 2014)

Sounds like you need to talk to a attorney and a private investigator to ensure all his accounts are accounted for.


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