# i dont want this to end, but i do want it to stop.



## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

Been going back and forward with my wife for a while now. She filed in June served in July. She's agreed to counseling, she's not considering stopping the divorce. Today she said she loved me. I guess she says the divorce is final on the 9th. I don't know how, its taking a long time for mail to catch up. I have to go to the courthouse today anyways so ill find out soon enough. Now I'm here wondering wtf? I can't make heads or tails of this situation. She says "baby steps", refuses to separate rather then divorce, sends me signals that we have a chance and tells me not to trip. She also says we are done. But she doesn't know. This has got me baffled. Is she biding her time till its final? I tried to go dark, but if I do I don't stand a chance for any reconciliation. We speak amicably. We don't yell or fight. We work on things as they come along. Next Thursday is counseling. We will see how it works.
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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

I also have been watching a lot of Louis. Funny guy with some of my problems.
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## MyselfAgain (Apr 21, 2012)

I'm sorry your are experiencing so much confusion. Glad you still have the opportunity to do counseling, you se lucky! Remember to do the 180 and when you see her, make sure she sees a man who is happy with himself, his life right now and whatever the future may bring. She doesn't want to see a man who is waiting for her to change her mind so that he can exhale.

Her actions are all that matter, not her words. She may love you, but still not want to he married to you. She may be mourning the end of the relationship, dealing with guilt, etc. The only way to protect yourself from getting hurt over and over is to stop putting so much emphasis on what she says. You need to detach whether she eventually takes you back or not...because her actions say that you at heading for divorce.

Some people do manage to get back together after divorce. But if you live as if that will happen, you may be setting yourself up for a miserable year pining for a woman who has healed and moved on. 180 and detach, detach, detach.
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## lovingsummer (Jul 27, 2012)

Does she give a reason for not putting the divorce on hold until after a few sessions with the counselor? That seems strange to me, I would think if she was going to do "baby steps" then she would postpone the divorce for at least a little while???


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

She sounds like a very confused woman. Do what is right for you and stop trying to figure her out. If you are going for counselling, maybe the counsellor can figure her out, but either way, don't make it a focus of your life. It will only drive you crazy.


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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

I just don't know. She is confused. She says she's all about her now. That's fine, I've been an a**hole and made a WAW out of her. I am not sure she knows how the divorce works. She thinks its over on the 9th. There is no way. That's less then 60 days. In Oregon there is a 90 day waiting period if there is no response. I responded today. Buys us 90 more. And mediation. She has followed through with zero requirements. No mandatory parenting classes, no mediation. She doesn't know the dates when things are supposed to happen.
I more or less screwed up, I asked her point blank to stop the divorce and consider separation. She did not take it lightly. I laid out the fact that its exactly like divorce, minus the finality. She balked and accused me of badgering her. I admit I was persistent and overbearing. She told me it was done on the 9th and I freaked out. 
I called to talk to her today at work and she flipped out. Furious and crying about how I'm so selfish and don't respect her boundries. How maybe in time I will understand.?. I ask her how will I understand with out discourse?
Confused...
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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

Every step I take with her its 2 more back. I want her back. She left me because I couldn't deal with stuff. I did a long time in prison for dumb stuff. Went in as a teen came out at 26. I lost a great portion of life experience I know is needed to care about someone. All of the sudden I had a wife and a teen step daughter that had issues and a baby on the way. I made the best of it. Or I tried. I made journneyman electrician. I bought vehicles, but I was crushed by debt from a former life and fines. I lost her through thinking I had control. That "I'm the Man" I stopped listening. Over time she realised there was more to it. I had issues. Depression, mania, impulse control issues. I was at a loss as to what to do. After she left, the day she left, I spiraled out off control. Magnified everything that was bad. In that light, I saw what I had become. I sought help. Therapy, meds and meditation. I want her to see this, I'm capable of change. That I want it and her.
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## lovingsummer (Jul 27, 2012)

That is a lot to deal with  I wish I could give you some advice but I've never been in that situation... With the exception of depression (my husband and I both have it) and my husband has the "everything in it's place 'just the right way' " type of OCD anxiety... That can be very hard to deal with... I agree that you missed alot of life experiences being in prison and maybe some of the control or be controlled issues came from there??? I'm glad to hear that you went and got help... my husband did and it really helps... There is no guarantee about your marriage but you will be a pretty person for it... This forum is great so look around and maybe there will be other posts that can really help you...


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

I have the therapy, it doesn't feel as if I ever get to the root. 12 years total I spent because I was a dumb angry kid. I wish I had those days back. I wish I would have learned how to treat some one who loves me. I lived in a world of no love.
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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Frostflower said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My son is a journeyman electrician so I know what an accomplishment that is. Good for you! 

It must have been quite an adjustment, going from being in prison all those years to being married with a pregnant teenage stepdaughter. And to have debt on top of that. 

It's time to be good to yourself and to work on being the best you can be. Make changes for yourself not for your wife. She will respect you more that way than if you change for her. 

Good luck.
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## lovingsummer (Jul 27, 2012)

Frostflower, you are so right  Just having a teenager is difficult 
(I have 3) and he has one that is pregnant... I can't imagine... goner, you can't get your past days back but you can make your future days better. You are still learning (hell I'm 40 years old and been married 20 years and still learning) The hardest thing for you may be forgiving yourself for not knowing, not doing, etc... Keep doing things to better yourself.


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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

Thank you, and yes, quite the adjustment. I have moments that don't work to well out here. I have a few trust issues and times where nothing seems to make sense. A lot of different personalities to deal with. Been out 6 years and married for about 5 1/2. Went fast. I really feel as if my only option is to make no contact. Besides the kids and counseling. Its doubly hard as I dont really have much of a support group. Most my family wrote me off years ago or don't know who I am. All my friends are coworkers and that's not appropriate. Everyone else is a waste of my past.
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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

Yes, my now 18 year old is preggers too. Due in October. She's had a lot of BS in her life and its culminating. I have made leaps and bounds in a few short years. In just a few months I went from people talking about committing me (post her leaving) to getting help and going back to work full time. Ultimately I found this forum, about three weeks ago, its been a blessing. I googled "wife loves me but not in love" badabing here I was. I never heard of WAWs or 180 or "going dark." It shed some light on how and when it started. It drove me to seek help. Really. I was still blaming her 100% for leaving when it got tough.
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## lovingsummer (Jul 27, 2012)

It sounds like you are going in the right direction so far getting help, going to work, reading through this forum... I had to chuckle a bit on how you found this forum. It was similar to me except I was googling "my wife drives me nuts when she..." "I hate it when my wife...." My husband is not a big talker so I was trying to get a general idea on what I do that might drive him crazy or get some ideas on how to be a better wife for him. Right away I got the swift kick in the ass I needed from something I posted  It made me see things a different way. I hope you stay, I know I am..


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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

Synthetic broke me off right quick. So did Up. I was hesitant to listen as we were talking. That's changing really fast so now is the time to let it ride, I suppose. It seems we get somewhere and I say the wrong thing and I'm out again. May as well say nothing at all. This whole experience has been enlightening. Good and bad. Without struggle nothing achieves it true potential or so I've heard. I'm not one for fate, I'm just saying, that if its meant to be like this then that's all there is to it. I can't change people or their minds or hearts, I can only deal with how I handle it. 
Generally I'm not much of a talker either. Must be a guy thing. We assume if nothing is said then all is okay. I had that blow up in my face. Once she was done talking it was a baaaad sign. Wish I would have found this earlier...
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## lovingsummer (Jul 27, 2012)

You are so right about not changing people, their minds or hearts but you can handle how you deal with it. As long as you keep that in mind and keep doing what you know is right. I really had to laugh about the "we assume if nothing is said then all is okay" that is SO true for my husband! He is so mellow and laid back... go with flow and I'm the passionate "doer" of things. We are just now figuring a good way to mesh the two (more or less... he is trying to get better at talking and I'm trying to get better at shutting up  I also wish I would've found this earlier.


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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

Yesterday I asked her not to divorce. Now she won't talk. I keep hurting her. I want time, that's all.
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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

Our friends say not to talk to her. Its hard now. I just found out a friend may die from a motorcycle wreck. They say he hit a car at 40mph.
Everyone I talk to says to let her miss me.
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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

I'm sitting here at my brothers, lonely as fvck. The best advice I keep getting is to back off. To not speak to her unless it regards our son. I'm holding my ground about responding to the divorce. I don't want it. In a few months I don't know how or if thing will change. I can only hope. Missing her is like missing myself. Like being in prison again. I love her so much and have done so much wrong through ignorance and false pride. If its best I have to make NC. If it has a chance of bringing her home I have too. I need her in my life.
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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

goner said:


> Thank you, and yes, quite the adjustment. I have moments that don't work to well out here. I have a few trust issues and times where nothing seems to make sense. A lot of different personalities to deal with. Been out 6 years and married for about 5 1/2. Went fast. I really feel as if my only option is to make no contact. Besides the kids and counseling. Its doubly hard as I dont really have much of a support group. Most my family wrote me off years ago or don't know who I am. All my friends are coworkers and that's not appropriate. Everyone else is a waste of my past.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wow, that was fast! Did you know each other before you went to prison?


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

goner said:


> Our friends say not to talk to her. Its hard now. I just found out a friend may die from a motorcycle wreck. They say he hit a car at 40mph.
> Everyone I talk to says to let her miss me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm so sorry about your friend.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

goner said:


> I'm sitting here at my brothers, lonely as fvck. The best advice I keep getting is to back off. To not speak to her unless it regards our son. I'm holding my ground about responding to the divorce. I don't want it. In a few months I don't know how or if thing will change. I can only hope. Missing her is like missing myself. Like being in prison again. I love her so much and have done so much wrong through ignorance and false pride. If its best I have to make NC. If it has a chance of bringing her home I have too. I need her in my life.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Goner, I can feel the pain in your words. i'm glad you're not alone tonight. I can't speak from experience as I haven't gone NC, but from what people here say, it is effective. 

Hugs.


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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

I met her briefly when I was 18. We knew a lot of the same people. She didn't like me at all then. I was a punk and give no concern for anyone but me. I met her again when a coworker invited me to his sisters bday party. She was there and it was love at first sight. I stayed with her for 3 days. The next weekend we went to the beach. I would drive 40+ miles one way to stay at her sisters house. Then drive it again to go to work. It was October when she said she was pregnant. About a month and a half. It felt so right. I moved with her to be closer to my work into a pos duplex with her daughter, her and I. She was living in her sisters garage. I with my older a**hole brother. It was awesome. My first legitimate place. I had a lot of growing up to do. My friends were 18-19 and wanted to party. So I did too. I was 26 and could buy beer. I wasted so much time. Came home drunk at 3am. Came home bleeding from fights. Didn't come home at all. I realize I was stupid.
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## lovingsummer (Jul 27, 2012)

Goner,
I'm sorry to hear about your friend, I hope they will be ok.  It sounds like you're just having a sh!tty a$$ night! I'm not sure if the no contact thing works either but I have heard it does as well. I would imagine if she knows you're pining for her, wanting her back so badly it might make her feel like she can hold this out longer. Do you two go to any couseling yet? I would say to continue to work on you, you'll be better in the long run and she just may see you walking the walk. There's no guarantee but you'll still be better and emotionally stronger.


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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

He's in the IC, doesn't look good. He lived like he's gonna die, fast and unforgiving. No counseling until next Thursday if I dont manage to make her hate me more in the meantime. I know I need it. She says she does too.
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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

goner said:


> He's in the IC, doesn't look good. He lived like he's gonna die, fast and unforgiving. No counseling until next Thursday if I dont manage to make her hate me more in the meantime. I know I need it. She says she does too.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Let everything be until next Thursday. Don't phone, text or email her. Let the counsellor help you through this. Its a good sign that she is willing to go with you.

Take care.


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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

Thank you frostflower, she is p***ed off as it is. As soon as I said I responded to the divorce she went cold told me she f***ing hated me and wish she never met me. Pretty harsh. I intend on not pushing further. Its not worth the loss.

You take care as well.
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## lovingsummer (Jul 27, 2012)

I agree with Frostflower, leave it be until you go to the counselor. They will at the most help you guys through it, at the least help you guys coparent. I'm still hoping your friend pulls through.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

goner said:


> Thank you frostflower, she is p***ed off as it is. As soon as I said I responded to the divorce she went cold told me she f***ing hated me and wish she never met me. Pretty harsh. I intend on not pushing further. Its not worth the loss.
> 
> You take care as well.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks.

That was harsh on her part, considering all the grief and confusion she has given you. 

Another reason to avoid contact right now is that you are stressed about your friend. Not good conditions for positive communication with her. 

Try and focus on you for the next week. Go into counselling strong and confident. Show her what she's missing.


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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

Thank you. It helps a lot.
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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

Got a few seconds with her today picking up our son for a kick a** weekend. Served her my response to the divorce. She told me she is POed still but she loves me. I stupidly asked are we done forever. She said no, we are not done, as long as I stop the dumb s*** I tend to do. Mostly getting irrational and assuming stuff that degrades her character. Pushing for answers that she is not ready to give. I need a chill pill. Wait, I got a whole bottle of them!
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## lovingsummer (Jul 27, 2012)

Well, that's hope right  Hopefully this will be enough that it give you both a chance to reorganize your priorities and make your marriage/love/commitment #1... How is your friend doing? Hope you and your son have a great weekend.


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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

I can only hope. Oh yeah a good weekend. Oaks park amusement park. Portland airshow. Some swimming and lots of double stuff oreos. Golden oreos. 
My buddy is still pretty rough. I guess his face and shoulders are pretty much destroyed. As he is a dirty biker, no insurance, no job, no money. They say he can get on oregon health plan, but they won't cover reconstructive surgery. He's been in an induced coma since yesterday, I believe they are waking him up slowly. There afraid of shock.
Right now #1 is fixing ourselves to work with eachother. If we dive into anything, be it divorce or reconciliation, its likely we would end up worse off. We need the counseling, we need space and time. We need healing. All I have is time and I will sacrifice it all for her happiness and well being.
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## lovingsummer (Jul 27, 2012)

I don't understand why they wouldn't cover reconstructive surgery is it's necessary. I'm glad they have him a coma though I can't imagine how much pain he would be in. I agree about the counseling, my H and I have gone more than a few different times. Sometimes it just helps to have someone listen and give an outside point of view or help refocus and heal. I truly hope it works for you guys, it sounds like you've both been through so much to give up.


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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

I guess they will do enough to make him human again, as far as pretty... well he was never pretty, but they won't cover making him look like him. 
We have been to counseling before, once one told me to do all in my power to win her heart, then told her to leave me as soon as she found out I had been in prison. Another was one we found through a friend, turned out to be a counselor that works with state ordered cases. She wanted us to go group counseling. Not very intimate. The third was great, but I went in with a poor mind set. I tried to prove a point that it wasn't me breaking us apart. I sat there in insolence fuming that she was telling someone else how "bad" I was. Not this time.
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## lovingsummer (Jul 27, 2012)

Don't you wish sometimes that you could kick yourself in the a$$ for not "getting" it earlier? I wish that alot, looking back on some of the dumb mistakes I've made... wow!!! My favorite counselor was a woman that really put me in line the way I needed to be. I still think about what she told me to this day (we went to her about 10 years ago)... I realize you've made a lot of mistakes with your life but I think you need not forget all that you been through and still accomplished. I have 3 cousins that have been to prison and only 1 of them is doing anything productive in life at all. She's only been out a year but she's doing well so far. As for the other 2 guys... nada.


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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

Oh yeah, as grandpa used to say wish in one hand... the last one was awesome. She did a bunch of stuff I didn't understand. Word association. Pro and con lists. Yada yada yada. My wife would sit and cry to her and I would think holy crap what BS! She doesn't really feel that way! She would have told me! Well, I guess I was wrong about that.
I was in a maximum federal prison for 5 years. Bank robbery. About 2 years in I realized something. I wasn't like those guys. I didn't want to come back. I didn't want the things that drove me to be a criminal. It was an illusion. Bonnie and Clyde, Jessie James its all crap. I was no more an outlaw. I was just a kid that made horrible choices that hurt everyone around me. I have 4 little brothers if we were to see eachother on the street I doubt they would recognize me. My mom is senile and barely knows who I am. I wasted it. The hardest part is coming to terms with never getting it back. No high school. No prom. No college. No 21st birthday drunk as fvck. I gave it all up to be a tough guy. When I came home, I lived a different life. Met my wife and started building. Unfortunately I carried that baggage still. I made her see it.
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## lovingsummer (Jul 27, 2012)

Oh the ol' wish in one hand... I love that one :rofl: It is a little ironic that you went in for bank robbery. I am very much a small town girl and have phobias of many "big city" crimes. One of my fears is going inside a bank cuz I'm afraid it will get robbed. I always use the drive thru, I think I watched too many tv shows as a young child  My cousins were in for drugs and the various crimes that come along with that. That is sad about your family though, I couldn't imagine not having a relationship with my brother... my sister's a different story. Like I said, it sounds like you've paid your consequences and worked your way up. Still a ways to go, but don't forget to pat yourself on the back once in a while as you're continuing to climb.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Well this marriage started so soon after you got out that it would be hard for the experience to not get into your marriage.

Continue to learn and grow. Just keep moving forward. If your marriage does not work out.. you will find another and you can take all you learn into that relationship.


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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

Never had a close family. Not in the usual sense. Classic drunk punching bag mom, junky abusive father. 5 brothers, 1 older 4 younger. All of us were very different. Air force, prison, church, carny, skater bum, and gamer. 
Yes, it was very, very fast. It felt so right though. Instant family. Over time I poisoned the well.
I don't want to take the experience elsewhere. I will try everything I can to fix this.
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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

goner said:


> Never had a close family. Not in the usual sense. Classic drunk punching bag mom, junky abusive father. 5 brothers, 1 older 4 younger. All of us were very different. Air force, prison, church, carny, skater bum, and gamer.
> Yes, it was very, very fast. It felt so right though. Instant family. Over time I poisoned the well.
> I don't want to take the experience elsewhere. I will try everything I can to fix this.


Take a look at the links in my signature block below for building a passionate marriage. They teach a lot about the mechanics of making a marriage work.. how to make it strong and passionate.

You have had a hard road but seem like a guy who is really trying to do the right thing.


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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

Will do elegirl. Thanks.
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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

Tough day, made the kid vomit. To many fast spinning rides. The blue icee didn't help. I want progress so much. Now she drinks all the time. Every weekend she gets drunk as fvck and screws off our son. I'm a glorified babysitter for her misbehavior. The friend she hangs out with is a guy, they swear nothings going on. I told him if they begin to flourish I will do grave bodily damage to him. Should of bit my tongue. I'm worried.
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## lovingsummer (Jul 27, 2012)

Yikes... I agree, a tongue bite may have been better... I can only imagine your frustration though...ugh... Wish I had a solution that would help...  

p.s. I hope I didn't offend you by the bank robber phobia... I'm just weird that way... I also have to have my bed (mattress & box springs) on the floor or have so much sh!t under the bed frame that nobody (Jason) can fit under it... Seriously to many movies at too young of an age


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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

No worries. It was an awful thing to do to people. I'm sure its scary on the other side. I live in the portland oregon metro area. The year I was caught they said there were 400+ bank robberies till then. It was june. So my estimate would be nearly 1000 a year around here. Not a big city either. 3 million people.
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## lovingsummer (Jul 27, 2012)

3 million people!!! Holy moly... The town I've lived all my life has maybe 1000 if that. I'm a pretty "untraveled" person... Portland Oregon is beautiful though of course most of Oregon is... The nearest "big" city to me is Spokane and I get the hell out of there before dark


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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

That's the whole metro area. I live 20 miles west. About 100,000 where I live, a lot are immigrant farm workers. Big enough for 3 fred meyers and 2 home depots. But small enough I see people I know everyday. 
My wife needs to pull her head out of the bottle. Life isn't that simple. We have feelings and emotions for a reason, not to dumb them down with booze.
Pacific Northwest Pride!!!
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## lovingsummer (Jul 27, 2012)

Yea, I agree. It's amazing on how some people think that adding booze to the problem makes it better. I guess it's just the numbing feeling or distraction they are going for. Boozing it up with another man seems wrong to me. I'm wondering how she justifies this as "helping" things in her mind?


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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

When we met I drank like it was my religion, she was preggers, so none for her. About 2 years ago I got sober. She felt if she drank Iwould too. Around last Xmas I had some wine & champagne. Soon enough I was drunk every weekend again till about a month ago. In the time I've known her she never drank much. I think its her way of feeling liberated. Like I was in the way of her having a drunken good time.
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## lovingsummer (Jul 27, 2012)

Yep, I think you're right. My Mom did that when her and my Dad got a divorce. He cheated on her after 34 years of marriage and she married when she was 17 so she was living it up. Maybe for your wife it feels like a little "revenge" too maybe?


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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

I'm certain of that. I'm not sure but it feels like a tactic. Whether she knows it or not. Kinda like "look at how it feels when you love someone that only hurts you."
I never cheated, never thought to. She is amazingly beautiful, inside and out. I really hit the jackpot on her. But... I broke her heart. Trying to grow 12 years in a flash of time was to taxing for her. I bet she felt like she was my mom sometimes. Its not like I went out of my way to be irresponsible, I had to learn the hard way. When stuff got to big for me to bear, she would bail me out. I got used to it and took it for granted. The prison system could really do well by mandating that people getting out take classes for re-entry. Budget, relationship, parenting, ect.
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## lovingsummer (Jul 27, 2012)

At least you're recognizing all the things you did wrong so you can do the necessary things to change. Even if it doesn't get your wife back, you'll be a better person and a better partner next time. Although I do hope that you guys can work it out. Do you still have counseling on Thursday or has that been nixed? I always thought the prisons did have a re-entry program... Shows how much I know I guess. I don't seem fair to just throw people to wolves (back in population) and magically expect them to know what the hell is going on. My cousin was very shocked by all the technology that's out there now. It was very overwhelming for her at first.


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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

As far as I know Thursday is still a go. I've done a bunch of soul searching the past few weeks, after I woke up to the fact I did this. What I've found is not so nice. Over time I've grown more and more bitter and resentful. I have issues that needed to be dealt with, but from my perspective everyone I had ever known had those issues. I thought mood swings and depression were normal things. I put that on her and blamed her for my inability to succeed in this relationship. As if she weren't trying. We both were, just not on the same path. It must have been torture at times.
As far as classes in prison; they are optional. I took a few dumb classes on microsoft word and resume making. They were taught by other inmates. Mostly lifers, why should they care? Or even know? To seek counseling or therapy you must be deemed virtually crazy and they would just med you into a zombie. Not a safe state of mind for the environment. If they would focus more on keeping violent personal criminals off the streets for good and not just warehousing people with mandatory minimums for property or minor drug offences they would have more $ for actually rehabilitating. As a matter of fact most medium prisons used to have that in their names. Rehabilitation centers. Now they are called correctional institutes, or prisons.
I digress, what bugs me is she's out whooping and hollering drunk as hell whenever she can and doesn't regard how it affects this. She will bounce from "we are done" to "I love you, we are not done yet." No consistency what so ever. If we actually talk we get somewhere, she gets loaded and 'hangs out' it changes.
Just confused...
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## lovingsummer (Jul 27, 2012)

I can see why you're confused... probably not sure where your main focus should be. How do you make a plan for life when you don't know if you're going to be single? married? If you'll be a family all the time or have to worry about a custody situation. That might be harder to deal with than just having to get through the grief, remorse of screwing up and moving on from a divorce. You are right about the mood swings and depression being a torture, my H used to be like that and some days... yikes... of course I have depression too so I'm not always a picnic to be around all the time either. I think it's probably a combo of things with your wife's partying... liberation, revenge, showing you "how it feels" to have a selfish spouse that things more about their self than their partner... probably how she felt when you were drinking alot... I'm not real sure though.


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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

Right now my main focus is me and the boy. She moved out of our 3 bedroom rental. I had been unemployed for about a month. Times are tough for electricians right now. She moved into a 1 bedroom apt. I lost the home as i couldn't pay rent. She took ALL the furniture and belongings. I took what was only mine. No more. 
My plan is to be out of my little brothers apt in a month. Into a 2 bedroom and hit rent a center for everything else. My son needs his own room. Not sharing one with me half the time and her the other.
Yes I want her back so bad, but at what cost? I'm trying to tear down walls she has built for her hearts protection, walls I helped build. One day hopefully she will see what she's missed. Hopefully soon.
She's not very vindictive, at least she hasn't been for 6 years. But she is stubborn as hell. A taste of my own medicine is up her alley. Maybe... I think its more of "look what I can do now!"
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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

Today I saw her and she denied ever saying she loved me. Saying we weren't over forever. This is awful. I'm like a ping pong ball or a yoyo.
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## lovingsummer (Jul 27, 2012)

Well, hmmm... I don't know how you wouldn't feel like that... Keep hoping that the counseling will do you guys some good and stay focused on getting your own place for you and your son.... Is she thinking that she can do anything she wants now and "when" you guys get back together "since you're not over forever" that her behavior NOW what effect that?


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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

Right now its day by day, moment by moment. I hear from her friends positive things about how she loves me and eventually wants to work things out. Unfortunately, until counseling starts we are at a stalemate. We need to respect and trust one another. She says she has goals and as of now I'm not one. Her behaviour now has no bearing on the future if I'm not involved. Its just her doing whatever she wants. No regard for me.
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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

I can't help myself, when we talk I want to share it all. I piss her off every time i do. I tell her how I feel and ask how "we" are. It must drive her crazy. I feel bad for doing it. But I can't help myself.
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## lovingsummer (Jul 27, 2012)

Well, I certainly can't criticize for that because I'd probably do the same exact thing... How is your son handling all of this?


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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

He's holding up. He told me if I came home he would cry. I said "you'd be that sad?" He said " no I would cry from being happy." Killed me. Right now I know he's had a rough time and he refers to time as when mom loved me and when she didn't. He's aware of feelings and tells me he loves me just when I need it. We have fun and try to forget everything is okay. I'm not sure what he does with her. 
What I know is whenever I push for anything she retreats. If I get angry she returns it 10 fold.
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## lovingsummer (Jul 27, 2012)

I can't imagine what it would be like to be a little kid and have my parents divorced/seperated... I was 23 when my parents got divorced and I was devastated... I never had to do the whole "step" parent thing thank goodness. I wished my parents would get back together for about 4 years after they divorced. It's hard on everyone


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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

My folks split when I was 12. I blamed my mom for some reason. My dad kick the crap out of her on the regular. When that wasn't enough or we had done some sort of "wrong" he would work us over. Not a healthy relationship. For the best I guess. He turned out to be a junky and her a drunk. 
I heard once that there is a part in the brain that controls the fight or flight response. Medulla oblongatta? When we are young this is developing at a great rate. During this time if the fight or flight gets activated to often It causes grave damage to the response. Abused kids will often carry this with them until it gets resolved in counseling or lots of therapy. That's why abuse is hereditary. Most never deal with it.
My father was an awful man. I'm afraid I might be like him.
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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

So far today I have stuck with going dark. We talked about our son. I did ask about counseling and stated that we should let the counselor figure it out.
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## lovingsummer (Jul 27, 2012)

How did she handle that? It's sad that your Dad was an awful man  I watch my son with my H and it's amazing how much he wants to be like him. I'm so thankful my H is a GOOD man


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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

I read some stuff in the "marriage repair center" to agree. Truly agree. This whole time I have been invalidating her feeling by saying she is wrong. Telling her there is other ways out. She feels there isn't. I just need to give her time and space. Let the counselor work it out.
My son is a spitting image of me. I try to be the best influence in the world. Not an abusive a-hole I've been shown. If I spank him I explain why and stay with him till he's understanding.
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## lovingsummer (Jul 27, 2012)

My husband used to do those things to me, telling me I'm wrong for feeling the way I do about things. Like if he said things that hurt my feelings or something he'd try to convince me why I shouldn't feel that way. Drive me INSANE!!! I go into instant b!tch mode when that happens. My son does look alot like my H too. My H was a young Dad (18 when we had our first... I was 21) so he really didn't get the whole kids watch EVERYTHING you do. But it's especially that way with my son and my H, still that way with me and our 2 daughters. The girls just don't necessarily want to be like me because most of the time I might as well be satan... I have three teens so you know how that goes... :rofl:


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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

Its like I'm addicted to a drug. I push for hope of reconciliation. I told her even though she was "buzzed" that I believe she let on to some true feelings when she said she loved me and said its not over. She said from the advice she had been given she isn't allowed to say she loves me. I asked if that was for right now. She said " I can't say 'right now' either." She explained that she's yoyoing me and its not fair to me. I can dig it. I told her I'm coming to grips with who I've become and I'm not happy with it. I told her I will always want to be with her. I feel the same as I always have. I don't want to 'give up.' I asked what she needed out of this she said to heal. I agree. She says she is taking a risk that she will lose me because of this. I told her that it won't be on my part. 3 days till our first session. Its going to be IC for a while then hopefully soon MC/CC. I go first at 430, she gets 545. I need to stay strong and avoid calling her and asking for clues of how she feels.
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## lovingsummer (Jul 27, 2012)

I would imagine that would be the hardest thing is to try and stay calm, strong and confident. I think pushing her would be the worst thing to do even though that's what you want to do so badly. At least you are seeing the person that you were so you can change it regardless of what happens. Hang in there


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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

Thanks, everywhere I go I see families going out and having fun. I see what I've lost and I how I got here. Maybe not fully yet but I do. I wish she could see inside my mind and heart. Its hard to not tell her. Its even harder when she won't listen.
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## lovingsummer (Jul 27, 2012)

I have sort of that same problem, my H works out of town and I see couples and families and it makes me miss him even more. I see someone in the distance that sorta looks like him and my heart flutters (I never know when he'll suprise me and come home) then it sinks when I realize it's not him. I know it's not EXACTLY the same but I can empathize with you there.

Have you always shared your feelings for her, with her? If you haven't then she may think you're doing in now "to get back in"...


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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

If by feeling you mean frustrations worries and anger then yes. If its more of the squishy stuff... not too much. I have been one of those guys that assumes she knows I love her. Big mistake.
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## lovingsummer (Jul 27, 2012)

Ohhh... You're one of those  Are you sure you aren't my H? hehe
That's been a big problem with us the last 20 years. It came to a big fallout a few years ago. He is good about "showing" me how much he loves me... doing nice things for me, etc. Telling me how much he loves me, cares for me, etc. not so much... Of course me being the typical woman... I fall in love with my ears. We're finally after 20 years trying to meet in the middle. I'll try to start seeing the things he does for me as "I love you... you're amazing" and he'll try to be more verbal because it's just really nice to hear. 

If you've told her before that you'd change if/when she expressed her disappointment and you didn't change then she's probably holding out to see if the change will last. If it helps to not contact her but you still need to express your love, hurt, fears, etc. I recommend that you write her letters and not give them to her right now... If things work out, you can give them to her in the future, if it doesn't work out then you can burn them as part of your closure..


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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

Wow, that's the best advice I've gotten yet. I have told her before. We split for about a month and things did change for a while. Wrong diagnosis, I was told I had anxiety. Meds and therapy worked for a bit... then back to self medication. I always told her I love her, but that's about the extent. We stopped making time for ourselves and eachother. Fell into a routine. Got bored and I got drunk whenever I could. 
I will write letters starting tonight. Thanks for the advice. It will get it out and spare her the grief.
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## lovingsummer (Jul 27, 2012)

For me writing is very relaxing and eases my anxiety. It's a way to get my thoughts out so my mind doesn't keep going over it again and again. When my H could get mail, I wrote him every day most times just talking about what the kids and I are doing when he's gone. It was my way of "talking" to him when I missed him, mostly at night when the house settled for the night. Sometimes when I get really frustrated and feel like choking the nearest person I just get out the old notebook and write the words that come to my head. Usually... I HATE THIS F-ING SH!T... THIS IS BS.. I JUST WANT TO GO AWAY CUZ THIS SUX BALLS!!!! All the things I want to say out loud but know that words hurt and can't be taken back once they cross your lips. I hope it does help you.


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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

A very strange thing happened, I told my W how you said maybe she's waiting to see if the changes stick. She called you a smart women. Said you hit the nail on the head. 
I've spent months waiting to hear what she expects. Its been in front of my face this whole time. Thank you a million lovingsummer. As far as how long that might be... is up to her and our shrink.
Just to hear that brings levity to this situation. It was like being in limbo and now knowing the way I must go is the way I have been trying to go.
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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

Again, odd thing, I found out the company I work for pays bi-weekly so I don't get paid until Friday. Or MC is on Thursday. I asked the wife if she could cover it for 24 hours. She flipped out. Called me a liar, said nothing will change. That she was broke and that she has been taking care of our son for 2 months alone. I didn't ask her to pay it out right. But she told me to fvck off. I kept my cool, called a person that we owe for child care and told them Friday. I called the counselor and she said I can pay her Friday as well. I let her know and stayed chill, asked her to talk to me when she wasn't so angry.
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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

goner said:


> Again, odd thing, I found out the company I work for pays bi-weekly so I don't get paid until Friday. Or MC is on Thursday. I asked the wife if she could cover it for 24 hours. She flipped out. Called me a liar, said nothing will change. That she was broke and that she has been taking care of our son for 2 months alone. I didn't ask her to pay it out right. But she told me to fvck off. I kept my cool, called a person that we owe for child care and told them Friday. I called the counselor and she said I can pay her Friday as well. I let her know and stayed chill, asked her to talk to me when she wasn't so angry.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good for you for keeping your cool, then finding another way to deal with the money issue.


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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

Its all I can do. Its out of my hands.
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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

goner said:


> Its all I can do. Its out of my hands.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, you could lose it and make things worse. But you didn't, even when she freaked out on you. You are maintaining control of your actions. Don't sell yourself short.


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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

Exactly, by all I can do I mean to move forward. I can only keep working on me and wait for her to see the difference.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Ah....well the compliment still stands. You're doing great.


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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

Thank you so much. Over the last few days I am beginning to feel good again. Work helps a lot. Makes me feel useful again. Also you have really given me some great advice. I suppose when your in the middle of something its difficult to see what it is. Doesn't really explain how they know the shape of the milky way or how they know where we are in it... but I digress. I don't think I could have came to the conclusion that she's observing. She just gets wishy washy, I assumed she was just confused or drinking too much. Well she has been drinking more but... I don't know if that's a big factor. I might be waaaaay of base here but I also assume she might be trying to push my buttons. To see how I react and use that as a comparison. Interesting thing is today when she felt it necessary to freak out, I didn't. I just told her she was right and I will do what I can to make a solution. I even told her to take a bath and relax, if she's still po'ed tonight don't call and wait till tomorrow. Felt good, and I meant it.
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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Confused, drinking too much, pushing your buttons.....you may never know. Don't drive yourself nuts trying to figure it out. Whichever it is, she needs help and hopefully she will find it with the MC'er. Just keep on doing what you're doing. You're on the right path.

How do they know where we are in the Milky Way?!


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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

Something about using two lasers aimed at a certain degree from different places on earth simultaneously to triangulate the distance between the two. I'm sure satellites play a role too. Something about using infared and broad spectrum lenses to photograph the gasses in the galaxy cloud.
It sure feels like the right path.
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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

goner said:


> Something about using two lasers aimed at a certain degree from different places on earth simultaneously to triangulate the distance between the two. I'm sure satellites play a role too. Something about using infared and broad spectrum lenses to photograph the gasses in the galaxy cloud.
> It sure feels like the right path.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Too bad we can't use astro physics to figure out our spouses. God knows there's a lot of hot gas involved there too!


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## lovingsummer (Jul 27, 2012)

Goner, I'm so glad to hear that you kept your cool even if she didn't and I'm sure it helped for you to make arrangements with the finances. I know in my marriage for a long time I was the only one to do all those things, figure everything out, make the calls, etc. After about 18 years of it, I was just done doing it all myself. My H would tell me he would take care of it, then not do it. I would feel let down every time and of course that usually came out as anger. For the last few years my H has been "hit and miss" about doing what he says he'll do, making arrangement with things, etc. He has really been doing good the last few months but my trust that it will continue is just not there yet. I keep waiting for it to fall back again because that's what has happened for most of our 20 years together. I've explained it to my H that I feel like a pot of water just at the boiling point all the time and every time I have to take of everything it's like turning up the stove. I can't ever just relax and know things are taken care of even when he says he'll do it, I have to check because I never know IF he'll actually do it. I have to keep my mind running all the time to make sure I can keep up with everything, I never just get to "simmer" or cool down. I guess I'm saying, if she has been at the "boiling" point too, it's sooo good for you to just take care of things and keep calm. It will take her a while to get to simmer and even the little things may make her "boil" but don't let that get you down so you say F this. Of course, if you're making the changes and she continues to blow up on you for everything... you may have to look at the marriage and wonder if what you're doing now is too little, too late. Stay on this path though, it sounds like you're headed in the right direction.


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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

There's a lot of truth to that. At one point she said "let me take care of the finances." I make decent money, so does she so I figured what's the harm? Eventually bills would stack up, I had a lot of debt, I was a weekend party animal and would spend too much at the bar, and we both spent way too much on frivolous items. We would end up past due. That would be a fight because I would say what the f?!? She would say its me. Anger would build quickly. I couldn't figure out why if we make about $50 an hour between us we were so strapped. Its a bunch of bad decisions, mostly mine. 
Now she flies of the handle any time money is brought up. I will just keep my cool and pay what needs to be paid. Not bother her with this or that. I'm calmer now then I have been in months.
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## lovingsummer (Jul 27, 2012)

I think most people have made decent money and pi$$ed it away only to kick themselves in the ass later on. I'm thankful that my H is not a people person or I could see him in the bars.  Not to excess, but still there and the fact that he's a tight a$$ for spending bar prices on beer or liquor. I still think you are headed in the right direction as far as your thoughts go. I would pay take care of things and just let her know, this or that has been taken care of, just letting you know so you don't take care of it too. Staying calm (but not "flat lined" as in NO response) hopefully will help her become calmer too. I would bring this up eventually in MC, how to handle finances, a budget and things. It's tomorrow right?


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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

lovingsummer said:


> I think most people have made decent money and pi$$ed it away only to kick themselves in the ass later on. I'm thankful that my H is not a people person or I could see him in the bars.  Not to excess, but still there and the fact that he's a tight a$$ for spending bar prices on beer or liquor. I still think you are headed in the right direction as far as your thoughts go. I would pay take care of things and just let her know, this or that has been taken care of, just letting you know so you don't take care of it too. Staying calm (but not "flat lined" as in NO response) hopefully will help her become calmer too. I would bring this up eventually in MC, how to handle finances, a budget and things. It's tomorrow right?


I lost my phone for a while. She went to the MC and told her right now her heart is set on divorce. MC said she can't see us both then. On Friday I was told I couldn't see my son. I flipped out and cops got called. Now we are at odds again. I ended up going to the hospital and getting a psych eval. S*** suck so bad.
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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

goner said:


> I lost my phone for a while. She went to the MC and told her right now her heart is set on divorce. MC said she can't see us both then. On Friday I was told I couldn't see my son. I flipped out and cops got called. Now we are at odds again. I ended up going to the hospital and getting a psych eval. S*** suck so bad.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry to hear all this. You were doing so well.

have you looked into your rights as far as your son goes? Surely she can't arbitrarily keep you away from him.


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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

I tried calling the police. If she has him, I have no right to take him. Or even see him. It is literally killing me.
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## lovingsummer (Jul 27, 2012)

Dang, I was hoping that you weren't updating because things were going better... not sucking ballz!!!! That really sucks. Why all the sudden is keeping your son from you????


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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

Same. She said she had plans for Saturday. She said I knew about them. I don't remember any talk of that. If it were true now I'm worried. If its false I'm hurt.
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## lovingsummer (Jul 27, 2012)

Just to protect yourself, I'd start doing most of your communication with her through email or text. That way you have proof of things. I guess I don't understand why the cops can't do anything. Is it because you guys don't have a custody agreement on paper or something through the courts?


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## goner (Jul 25, 2012)

thats the issue, nothing through the courts establishing custody. 

i know what ive done, i know ive made some horrible choices, i hurt her _real_bad. i wish my heart would settle. it hurts to even think about letting go. i wish i had any other option.


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## lovingsummer (Jul 27, 2012)

Yea, I don't blame you for wishing you had another option but it's not sounding like you are getting one at this point. I guess your focus will have to go back to you working on yourself to be better and get a custody agreement set up soon.


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