# first time cheated, hysterical bonding? confused feelings help!



## Lawrence79

Hey everyone, just signed up and logged in for the first time. I have never heard of hysterical bonding before till about an hour ago. very interesting Phenomenon. lots of great responses. lots of up, down, good, bad, even though overall after scouring all these threads it seems over all it's a mask, and once cheating has happened it's largely over.

You all abbreviate all kinds of this that I have no idea what they stand for, so if you are able to reply either write it out or also tell what they mean so I can fully understand these responses. thanks!

My situation, a little different and I am still trying to figure out what it is I am feeling. 4.5 yrs into a relationship and 3 days ago I got it out of her that she has cheated the last month. I sent her off to a coding bootcamp in San Francisco for 10 weeks and in that time working 14 hrs days of intense schooling she started getting close to a guy and . . . it happened. for a few weeks. and she lied about it till I finally fully confronted her. I was a 1,000 miles away and I could feel it.

long story short, she sobbed her brains out to the nth degree, overwhelmingly chooses me, overwhelming knows what she did was wrong, begging for a chance, etc etc I am sure we have all heard similar stories.

and of course I feel completely disrespected, betrayed, made a sucker, I am so angry. for the first time ever I screamed at her and let it all out. all that toxic hate and anger and pain. and she allowed me the space to do it, even though it destroyed her to the core as well. she knows what pain this caused me, and her whole family. even her mother and grandmother called me crying they were so upset at this and that "I am the perfect guy for her" rhetoric.

She immediately cut it off, and swore on her grandfathers grave that she would do anything to put the pieces back together.

But when I found out the first night (via skype she is STILL in SF for 2 more weeks) afterwards I cried so violently hard I had reached my pinnacle of pain (I had been crying off and on for a month because I KNEW something was wrong) that when I woke up the next morning I have become numb. Like I don't feel. she cried for an hour to me and I didn't shed a tear. this is day 02 now and I am not feeling anything. Am I in shock? or does this mean it's over?

I told her I can't and won't forgive her. yet, or if I ever can. I don't know if I can ever touch her again. I don't know if I can ever fully love her again. I don't know if this is resolvable. But she wants to try. all I could say is that it will be a long road of healing and recovery for both of us. . . .and 6 months down the road we may see that it is totally not fixable. and that she had to start massively proving her devotion to me, and by the time she comes home and we talk, only then can I determine if I will even let her back and attempt to start putting the pieces back together.

the Hysterical bonding thing is crazy. she is not home yet and won't be for 2 weeks. but right now the mere thought of penetrating anything on her makes me sick to my stomach. Will that change when she gets home?

BUT, I DO still have feelings for her. I DO still love her. She (up until this point) has been 1000x better than any woman ever has to me. And I am not some poor schlep either necessarily. I am a decent looking guy, great shape, decent equipped head on my shoulders, great career, another words it wouldn't be terribly difficult to get back out there and start over again. but we have had a solid relationship. A very loving one. we are still ridiculously compatible.

so what do i do? and I holding on because of all the different examples people have said and it's just a defense mechanism? or is something there? I have a keen sense of intuition, hence how I immediately knew all was not well. with this, my intuition is telling me to not throw this away. yet.


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## SunCMars

Oh God, another guy lost the Love of his Life.

I am about burned out on these betrayals.

My advice? Have divorce papers ready for her.

Tell her to move out and live with her folks.

Anything short of that is a BandAid on an artery rupture. Useless.

She made her bed on this.
She made her bed and invited a strange man to join her.

She is no longer a keeper.
Don't keep her.

Just Sayin'


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## sokillme

Hold on to your hat you are into a long ride. I suggest you detach right now you are recovering from trauma, where you are now is not where you will be a year from now, 2 years form now, 3 years from now. That's if you choose to stay. If you move on it's very likely you will be over it in a year or so. A lot of it is going to be what she does. Does she get IC does she learn better boundaries. Don't get married until then, don't have kids for a long time. 

What are your ages. If it was me I would just move on. As far as your post you are not married and don't have kids. You could do better. Relationships are hard enough without someone stabbing you in the back. I believe there are cheaters and non-cheaters, your girlfriend/wife? is a cheater, it's hard to spend your life with someone like that. Loyalty is probably one of the most important things you need. Again life is hard. It's hard to be a team when your teammate is choosing the other team when you turn your back.


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## sokillme

SunCMars said:


> Oh God, another guy lost the Love of his Life.
> 
> I am about burned out on these betrayals.


Me too, seems women today are not very loyal. Guess they have caught up to men now. 

The sex-bots can't come soon enough. >


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## chillymorn69

No kids?

Gtfo
Or be sorry.

Hate to be blunt but once a cheater...

Have more respect for yourself. If your all you say you are you will have no problem finding a woman who isn't a cheating .....you fill in the blank.


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## BadGrammar

If she were really serious about committing to you, she would have been on the first flight home despite the financial consequences. Actually, she would have come home to tell you in person...not VIA SKYPE! She has zero respect for you. She cheats on you during a code training boot camp that you paid for?!! Amazing. BTW, chances are she did not cut it off at all. She is still there and so is the other dude. I would dump her immediately and send her a bill for the travel expenses and camp fees. 
You state that you are both very compatible... this is only true as far as a muddy boot is compatible with a doormat. She has treated you 1000x better than any woman has in the past? If you believe this, it is very sad.
Take comfort in the fact that this woman is poison. Poison for you and any other man she manages to manipulate so cruelly. Get out now.
Best, BG


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## anchorwatch

The well has been poisoned. 

Short term relationship... still young... no children? You could make things simple. Your choice. 

Take your time. You are what's important here. Not her, not family, not peers... Keep that in mind.

Best


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## SunCMars

Well I will throw you a tidbit, since your "intuition" is telling you not to give up.

If she is 'only' a beloved GF, go ahead and keep her. Never marry her.
If she is your beloved wife, go ahead and keep her. 

Now, both of the above at a price. She must bend over backwards to make this right.

Oh, on the hysterical bonding, all the sexing, insist that she keeps that up for life...or at least until she turns eighty one years old...give or take a year.

In turn, in @turnera, wear the women out. 
Forget not, She wore you inside out.

Wear her insides...out. 

i better stop typing here. My mind is, well, on fire. ;-}


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## marriageontherocks2

Based on stories here, reddit, and all over the net it looks like women cheat exponentially more than men. I wonder if it was always like this or if this is a new thing? If the internet is any reflection of real life it's like 30 women cheating for every 1 man.

OP, no kids? Young? Don't bother, just divorce and try to find your unicorn, she's rumored to be out there.


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## honcho

You have no way to verify she has stopped seeing the other guy. She has two more weeks away from you. She got caught and now will only admit to what you know already. She sobbed because she got caught and tears pull at the heart strings. She didn't choose you, she chose herself and her own wants, she didn't think she would get caught. You'll never fully trust her again.

Your going to be on an emotional roller-coaster for a while, being numb right now isn't unusual because your in shock and it's will be months before your emotions start to level out. She may try to hysterical bond with you when she gets back but it's usually done with the intent to make you minimize or rugsweep her affair. Not because she loves you so much. 

You appear to not be married, you've got no real financial entanglements with her you should seriously consider leaving her. You shouldn't be dealing with this in your relationship already. Marriage and relationships only get more complicated as time goes on and it'd much harder to separate. She has burned you and destroyed the trust, do you really want to continue possibly the rest of your life not trusting a partner?


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## GusPolinski

If she’s still there then they’re still banging, and you’re beyond naive to believe otherwise.

Also, no kids?

And not even married?

End it now.


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## Tatsuhiko

You were smart not to marry her. If you continue in a relationship with her, make sure you never tie the knot and never have kids. Some cheaters are worth keeping, if they make amends. But anyone who can cheat as fast as she did is NOT worth keeping. I agree with the suggestion that she should reimburse you for training expenses. If she has trouble getting the money, tell her to raise her prices.


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## GusPolinski

marriageontherocks2 said:


> Based on stories here, reddit, and all over the net it looks like women cheat exponentially more than men. I wonder if it was always like this or if this is a new thing? If the internet is any reflection of real life it's like 30 women cheating for every 1 man.
> 
> OP, no kids? Young? Don't bother, just divorce and try to find your unicorn, she's rumored to be out there.


With whom do you think the cheating women are cheating?


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## chillymorn69

Women and me cheat at the same rate.

Like gus above said who are they cheating with.

If a married person cheat with an unmarried person are they not both cheaters?

If the unmarried person knows rhere married. Of course.


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## BadGrammar

GusPolinski said:


> With whom do you think the cheating women are cheating?


From what I've read on this site, it is not uncommon for some men (married or single) to deliberately target married women. If this type of guy cheats with 10 married women, his ratio is 10 to 1. Again, based on what I've read on this site, the "Personal Trainer" gig is the perfect cover.

Of course, given that the world's oldest profession seems to be alive and well in the 21st century, and that many of those who partake therein are most likely married... the numbers probably even out (and then some.)


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## Primrose

The very first consequence for her should have been to board the next flight home. If she's there, she still will have contact with him; she will just be better at covering her tracks. 

We can guarantee you that, if she chooses to stay the remainder of the two weeks, this physical affair (PA) will continue for at least that length of time.


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## Marc878

Yep if they are still together they are still having sex.

Better wake up!!!!!


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## GusPolinski

BadGrammar said:


> From what I've read on this site, it is not uncommon for some men (married or single) to deliberately target married women. If this type of guy cheats with 10 married women, his ratio is 10 to 1. Again, based on what I've read on this site, the "Personal Trainer" gig is the perfect cover.
> 
> Of course, given that the world's oldest profession seems to be alive and well in the 21st century, and that many of those who partake therein are most likely married... the numbers probably even out (and then some.)


There is a much better — and much more plausible — explanation regarding the number of husbands and boyfriends that report WWs and WGFs online vs wives and girlfriends that report WHs and WBFs:

Women talk with their friends about this stuff.

Men don’t.


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## jsmart

You paid for her to better herself and within a few weeks she's already banging a guy? 

You're kidding yourself if you believe she stopped banging this guy because she shed a few tears via Skype. Once you she's off the phone, she's spending the whole day together with OM, he's putting on the charm. How long do you think she'll hold out? A horny guy will lay it on thick to get a repeat performance of some new poon. 

How well do you know her? She probably was a wild woman who usually hooked up with losers which is why her family is upset with her. They don't want her to mess it up with a "nice" guy.

Time to stop playing captain save a ho and just cut your losses. Put a ring on this one at your own peril.

BTW: what's up with first time cheated. There should only be a first time but your title makes it seem like you would be around for 2nd and 3rd.


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## ConanHub

Not married? No kids? No brainer!

Start dating for fun and tell her she can compete for you again if she can keep her legs closed.

Fair is fair. She has been having a lot more sex than you.


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## chillymorn69

Get out now or be emasculated with low self esteem the rest of you time together with her .

Shes just a girl friend .one that cheated 

These boots were made for walking and thats just what I'll do...

Before she walks all over you!!!


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## David51

Lawrence79 said:


> Hey everyone, just signed up and logged in for the first time. I have never heard of hysterical bonding before till about an hour ago. very interesting Phenomenon. lots of great responses. lots of up, down, good, bad, even though overall after scouring all these threads it seems over all it's a mask, and once cheating has happened it's largely over.
> 
> 
> 
> You all abbreviate all kinds of this that I have no idea what they stand for, so if you are able to reply either write it out or also tell what they mean so I can fully understand these responses. thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> My situation, a little different and I am still trying to figure out what it is I am feeling. 4.5 yrs into a relationship and 3 days ago I got it out of her that she has cheated the last month. I sent her off to a coding bootcamp in San Francisco for 10 weeks and in that time working 14 hrs days of intense schooling she started getting close to a guy and . . . it happened. for a few weeks. and she lied about it till I finally fully confronted her. I was a 1,000 miles away and I could feel it.
> 
> 
> 
> long story short, she sobbed her brains out to the nth degree, overwhelmingly chooses me, overwhelming knows what she did was wrong, begging for a chance, etc etc I am sure we have all heard similar stories.
> 
> 
> 
> and of course I feel completely disrespected, betrayed, made a sucker, I am so angry. for the first time ever I screamed at her and let it all out. all that toxic hate and anger and pain. and she allowed me the space to do it, even though it destroyed her to the core as well. she knows what pain this caused me, and her whole family. even her mother and grandmother called me crying they were so upset at this and that "I am the perfect guy for her" rhetoric.
> 
> 
> 
> She immediately cut it off, and swore on her grandfathers grave that she would do anything to put the pieces back together.
> 
> 
> 
> But when I found out the first night (via skype she is STILL in SF for 2 more weeks) afterwards I cried so violently hard I had reached my pinnacle of pain (I had been crying off and on for a month because I KNEW something was wrong) that when I woke up the next morning I have become numb. Like I don't feel. she cried for an hour to me and I didn't shed a tear. this is day 02 now and I am not feeling anything. Am I in shock? or does this mean it's over?
> 
> 
> 
> I told her I can't and won't forgive her. yet, or if I ever can. I don't know if I can ever touch her again. I don't know if I can ever fully love her again. I don't know if this is resolvable. But she wants to try. all I could say is that it will be a long road of healing and recovery for both of us. . . .and 6 months down the road we may see that it is totally not fixable. and that she had to start massively proving her devotion to me, and by the time she comes home and we talk, only then can I determine if I will even let her back and attempt to start putting the pieces back together.
> 
> 
> 
> the Hysterical bonding thing is crazy. she is not home yet and won't be for 2 weeks. but right now the mere thought of penetrating anything on her makes me sick to my stomach. Will that change when she gets home?
> 
> 
> 
> BUT, I DO still have feelings for her. I DO still love her. She (up until this point) has been 1000x better than any woman ever has to me. And I am not some poor schlep either necessarily. I am a decent looking guy, great shape, decent equipped head on my shoulders, great career, another words it wouldn't be terribly difficult to get back out there and start over again. but we have had a solid relationship. A very loving one. we are still ridiculously compatible.
> 
> 
> 
> so what do i do? and I holding on because of all the different examples people have said and it's just a defense mechanism? or is something there? I have a keen sense of intuition, hence how I immediately knew all was not well. with this, my intuition is telling me to not throw this away. yet.




There is some excellent advice in these replies no doubt about that. They are right, some people are cheaters and some are not. You need to look at yourself and ask if there would of ever been a time you would have cheated on her, a time you would of risked losing her, losing her trust, breaking her heart. I am not a cheater, I have been with my wife probably longer than you have been alive and although I have been tempted now and then. I just can’t wrap my head around how you do this to someone you love.

You have to make this decision we cannot help with that.
If it were me I’d sit her down and explain that adults that really and sincerely love each other do not sleep around and with that statement I’d tell her goodbye.......hard to do and don’t do it while you are angry she needs to see it isn’t anger.
Good luck



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Tatsuhiko

chillymorn69 said:


> Women and me cheat at the same rate.
> 
> Like gus above said who are they cheating with.


This is a fallacy I see a lot. The assumption is that if one married woman is cheating, there is exactly 1 married man she is cheating with. Therefore there are always an equal number of cheaters of both genders.

It doesn't work this way, mathematically, for many reasons. One unmarried man can cheat with multiple married wives. One in-the-closet married man can cheat with multiple other married men. A single woman who is sleeping with her married boss is not a cheater, in the strictest sense of the word.


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## Rob_1

OP. It doesn't matter the who, why, when, or how, it only matters that she did. That's enough in my book. It is over. I can not longer be with a woman that while in any type of relationship with me betrays me. 

I can understand feeling the pain and angst, but what I cannot understand is all these men that are betrayed by their woman, behaving like a teen girl crying and going way over their head with the "she's my soulmate, the love of my life, I'm so in love with her crap that they just become a pathetic, spineless mess, and can't move forward.

Just the thought of being with her again after another man **** her is enough for me to never ever again to be able to touch her.

OP be a man. Have some pride and integrity. End it, and move forward.


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## Hopeful Cynic

Even if is IS true that she ended contact with him (which is highly unlikely - cheaters lie), the fact that she didn't drop the course and come back to you right away tells you a LOT about where your relationship fits into her priorities. Very very low. Her first actions should be to seek counselling and figure out why she was capable of doing this and change that about herself. If she has no interest in exploring that or changing herself, well then, nothing stops it from happening again.

Oh, and hysterical bonding is when you have lots of crazy sex after the relationship is destabilized. That doesn't seem to be what you are describing, since she's still apart from you.


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## WilliamM

Depends what you want .

Just about the time of our fifth anniversary my wife let some friend seduce her. The sex wasn’t the issue to me, but she couldn’t get her story straight. Typical trickle truth. For about two years life was hell. Much worse for my wife than for me, I think. But I didn’t enjoy hurting her.

Then her third counselor, a psychiatrist, felt she should share her diagnosis with me. So my wife has problems, and history. I could choose to cope with her issues or dump her. In sickness or in health, I kept her. 

I made that decision in 1980. And I’m very glad I reconciled. Ours is one of the few stories where the long term result of reconciliation was satisfactory to the betrayed spouse. And I am far from an easy person to please. The life my wife lives to make our marriage work amazes me. It has taught me a lot about sharing.

It’s all up to you.


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## SunCMars

It seems.

It seems that Lawrence79 has gone back to Arabia.
He has two posts. One thread.

This one thread does not show up in a search. Even though other notables and myself have left moose droppings. None seem to show up. No threads with moose droppings?
Nor does his second post.

This is not kosher, but does look like a pickle.
One, not firm, somewhat soft..
And oh, so sour.

Did we chase him away. What about his Scat on TAM?

No thread, no second post.

Have we been duped?


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## EleGirl

Here you go... this link is to a thread that gives you the definition of the abbreviations......


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/forum-guidelines/464-common-message-board-abbreviations-acronyms.html


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## EleGirl

SunCMars said:


> It seems.
> 
> It seems that Lawrence79 has gone back to Arabia.
> He has two posts. One thread.
> 
> This one thread does not show up in a search. Even though other notables and myself have left moose droppings. None seem to show up. No threads with moose droppings?
> Nor does his second post.
> 
> This is not kosher, but does look like a pickle.
> One, not firm, somewhat soft..
> And oh, so sour.
> 
> Did we chase him away. What about his Scat on TAM?
> 
> No thread, no second post.
> 
> Have we been duped?


The OP only started posting at about 2pm today. That's hardly enough time lapsed yet to say that he flew the coop. 

Now about you not finding this thread in searches, this is something that I've noticed on TAM for a while. It is often taking a day or two for new threads to be entered into the database. And it seems that until they are they are not searchable and don't show up on a person's profile either. It's TAM not working right as usual.


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## tom72

marriageontherocks2 said:


> Based on stories here, reddit, and all over the net it looks like women cheat exponentially more than men. I wonder if it was always like this or if this is a new thing? If the internet is any reflection of real life it's like 30 women cheating for every 1 man.
> 
> OP, no kids? Young? Don't bother, just divorce and try to find your unicorn, she's rumored to be out there.


This has happened to me. I think it's the generation where men were cared for too much by their mothers. Allowing men to tip toe around issues rather then deal with complications, we walk on egg shells too much to avoid conflict.

Women are wild beasts that need sense of security and feeling safe. We give too much emotion to women because we don't know how to deal with it any other way

Just my opinion


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## Roselyn

You seem to want to remain in this relationship. Keep your girlfriend as a girlfriend, not a wife. She is not marriage material. Sorry you are here.


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## EleGirl

marriageontherocks2 said:


> Based on stories here, reddit, and all over the net it looks like women cheat exponentially more than men. I wonder if it was always like this or if this is a new thing? If the internet is any reflection of real life it's like 30 women cheating for every 1 man.
> 
> OP, no kids? Young? Don't bother, just divorce and try to find your unicorn, she's rumored to be out there.


Statistics from studies on this topic report that about 20% of men cheat. And about 18% of women cheat. So men are still cheating at a higher rate than women.

Remember that on any website the population that posts there is self-selecting. Men seem to go to the internet more to support after they are cheated on. Here on TAM more men stay here to talk about cheating because there is a strong male support group here. Betrayed women tend to not stay on TAM because they don't get good support on TAM for various reasons.

Plus, men tend to not have strong support systems in their real life so the internet fills that need. Women tend to have stronger support groups in real life so they are not as likely to hang around websites for support with something as personal as marital problems and support for a cheating husband.. women seek support form their stronger, real life support systems.


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## EleGirl

tom72 said:


> This has happened to me. I think it's the generation where men were cared for too much by their mothers. Allowing men to tip toe around issues rather then deal with complications, we walk on egg shells too much to avoid conflict.
> 
> Women are wild beasts that need sense of security and feeling safe. We give too much emotion to women because we don't know how to deal with it any other way
> 
> Just my opinion


Men cheat more than women, by a few percentage points these days.


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## Satya

Don't marry her, she's not marriage material.
She should have offered to come home instantly. She should compensate you for this camp then depart from your life.

If she is very remorseful, then great. She can be remorseful while you move on with your life. If after a full year of contemplating her life and future, if she's lived her life wholesomely, and if you're not with anyone else by then, you can consider taking her back.but it would require going back to square one with her. And that's assuming you won't find her as cloying and untouchable as you do now.

Your gut is telling you she's not the one.


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## jinkazama

You Relationship is NO MORE Solid

Leave Her.

There are a lot of faithful women out there


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## chillymorn69

Tatsuhiko said:


> This is a fallacy I see a lot. The assumption is that if one married woman is cheating, there is exactly 1 married man she is cheating with. Therefore there are always an equal number of cheaters of both genders.
> 
> It doesn't work this way, mathematically, for many reasons. One unmarried man can cheat with multiple married wives. One in-the-closet married man can cheat with multiple other married men. A single woman who is sleeping with her married boss is not a cheater, in the strictest sense of the word.


cheat·er
ˈCHēdər/Submit
nounNORTH AMERICAN
1.
a person who acts dishonestly in order to gain an advantage.
2.


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## thedope

RUN for the hills, Run for your life. 

Do you wants kids in the future? If so, do you want kids that will be raised by a cheater. She pretty much cheated on you the first chance she got. I wouldn't touch her, she may have an STD. So hecareful!


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## SunCMars

marriageontherocks2 said:


> *Based on stories here, reddit, and all over the net it looks like women cheat exponentially more than men. I wonder if it was always like this or if this is a new thing? If the internet is any reflection of real life it's like 30 women cheating for every 1 man.
> *
> OP, no kids? Young? Don't bother, just divorce and try to find your unicorn, she's rumored to be out there.


I doubt this. 
It is likely that more men come to Blogs for support than women do, viz., BGF's, BW's.

For a man to do so...doing so, they become one of the club, one of the wounded brotherhood. 
They empty their hearts more 'easily' some 'gleefully' with strangers. {Women often have girlfriends and sisters to talk to.}
It is a man thing. 

Men do not share their pain and feelings with just anyone. 
It is a wounded pride thing. An ego thing. 
Doing it anonymously with strangers is so much easier.

And it helps. Rather, it seems to. Judging by the readership at TAM, it is a popular thing, even a popular pastime. Kinda like watching soap operas, only in real life!!:surprise:

Just Sayin'


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## alexm

EleGirl said:


> Men cheat more than women, by a few percentage points these days.


The two %'s are so close together, and factoring in margin of error and actual reporting, it's pretty much exactly the same.

The thing is, many men have had a hard time grasping that women are pretty much the same as them when it comes to sex (and pretty much anything else, for that matter).

Women have probably cheated just as much as men as long as the opportunities have been there. I assume that, back when women were typically homemakers, the opportunities just weren't terribly plentiful.

And even then, the old joke about the youngest child looking suspiciously like the mailman probably had some truth to it.

I think it's oddly amusing that some men are still slightly shocked that women cheat (or even like sex).

As long as the opportunities are there, it's a pretty even split between the sexes, and it's really not that shocking.


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## alexm

As others have said, she should have been on the first plane home.

Unlike others, I believe she probably IS remorseful, and not just at getting caught. Otherwise, she would have kept it to herself.

Really, there are two types of cheaters. Those who know what they're doing, and those who don't set out to be unfaithful, but are quote/unquote "easy". OP's girlfriend is the latter.

The reality is, the remorseful, "accidental", cheater is just as bad. They get a little external attention, enjoy it, and things happen.

Those with such little self-esteem that they can be seduced like this are not ideal partners. It's not about getting laid in most cases - it's about positive attention being given to them. Men and women alike can smell this personality type a mile away, and can easily take advantage. The likelihood of a repeat performance is high.


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## smi11ie

Get a private investigator on her NOW......It's a great time to be gathering evidence because she thinks she is free and clear for 2 weeks.


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## SunCMars

alexm said:


> The two %'s are so close together, and factoring in margin of error and actual reporting, it's pretty much exactly the same.
> 
> The thing is, many men have had a hard time grasping that women are pretty much the same as them when it comes to sex (and pretty much anything else, for that matter).
> 
> Women have probably cheated just as much as men as long as the opportunities have been there. I assume that, back when women were typically homemakers, the opportunities just weren't terribly plentiful.
> 
> And even then, the old joke about the youngest child looking suspiciously like the mailman probably had some truth to it.
> 
> I think it's oddly amusing that some men are still slightly shocked that women cheat (or even like sex).
> 
> As long as the opportunities are there, it's a pretty even split between the sexes, and it's really not that shocking.


For every man that has tried to cheat, has been hit on by 'a' women and succeeded....
Women can boast, boost that number tenfold. Maybe higher, much higher, if she is the aggressor.

Women are in the driver seat. And the beauties can drive men wild, drive men off the cliff...
Oh yes, yes they can! :|:surprise:


----------



## eric1

The reason she was not on the next flight is because she wants two more weeks to date this guy. 

Period.


----------



## eric1

Do you know her boyfriend’s name?


----------



## alexm

SunCMars said:


> For every man that has tried to cheat, has been hit on by 'a' women....
> Women can boast, boost that number tenfold. Maybe higher, much higher, if she is the aggressor.
> 
> Women are in the driver seat. And the beauties can drive men wild, drive men off the cliff...
> Oh yes, yes they can! :|:surprise:


Maybe, maybe not. Probably. :grin2:

Man or woman, it's very easy to determine one's self-worth, self-value, self-esteem. You can determine your odds within a fairly short time, in most cases.

Hence the danger of partnering up with someone who requires constant affirmation.


----------



## Rick Blaine

If you are not married to this women, then she failed the marriage interview. Dating is a selection process. She's a bad candidate for marriage. Some things are complicated in life. This isn't one of those things. Sorry for your pain.


----------



## Personal

SunCMars said:


> For every man that has tried to cheat, has been hit on by 'a' women and succeeded....
> Women can boast, boost that number tenfold. Maybe higher, much higher, if she is the aggressor.
> 
> Women are in the driver seat. And the beauties can drive men wild, drive men off the cliff...
> Oh yes, yes they can! :|:surprise:


That may be so for lots of men, yet it certainly isn't true for all of them.

My wife is a very attractive woman, yet I have been hit on many more times than she has (especially when I was a younger man).


----------



## marriageontherocks2

GusPolinski said:


> With whom do you think the cheating women are cheating?


I think it's likely that a larger portion of women are cheating with a much smaller group of men.

An article I read recently says that women cheating has increased 40% in the past decade and I don't think it's even the tip of the iceberg. I think the studies are flawed due to confirmation bias by those conducting them and women tend to lie about cheating and number of partners, while men lie about the opposite.

Based on my own crawl of secondary data out on the Internet, and my own anecdotal evidence of myself, friends, and family, women appear to be cheating at an exponentially higher rate than men, like not even close.

Fact is most men aren't good looking enough to cheat. A 40 year old man who looks OK isn't going to have an easy time finding a partner. A 40 year old woman who looks OK can find one in 5 minutes, and likely a fit pretty good looking guy just looking to get laid, bag some dudes wife, whatever.


----------



## Lawrence79

Ele girl, I am confused and have no clue what you are getting at. this is the first time I have ever used this site. perhaps i did something wrong? yea, I first posted in a hysterical bonding thread because at first I thought it was semi related. then made a new post about it instead. I am not "duping" anyone.

I just don't know how to use this site yet. I am sorry for being a novice.

and I have no clued what SCAT and TAM stands for.


----------



## SunCMars

Lawrence79 said:


> Ele girl, I am confused and have no clue what you are getting at. this is the first time I have ever used this site. perhaps i did something wrong? yea, I first posted in a hysterical bonding thread because at first I thought it was semi related. then made a new post about it instead. I am not "duping" anyone.
> 
> I just don't know how to use this site yet. I am sorry for being a novice.
> 
> and I have no clued what SCAT and TAM stands for.


Welcome back...

Scat is animal poop.

TAM, TalkAboutMarriage, is where People come to shed tears, tell their tale of woes, come to poop on the party.:surprise:


----------



## Lawrence79

alexm said:


> As others have said, she should have been on the first plane home.
> 
> Unlike others, I believe she probably IS remorseful, and not just at getting caught. Otherwise, she would have kept it to herself.
> 
> Really, there are two types of cheaters. Those who know what they're doing, and those who don't set out to be unfaithful, but are quote/unquote "easy". OP's girlfriend is the latter.
> 
> The reality is, the remorseful, "accidental", cheater is just as bad. They get a little external attention, enjoy it, and things happen.
> 
> Those with such little self-esteem that they can be seduced like this are not ideal partners. It's not about getting laid in most cases - it's about positive attention being given to them. Men and women alike can smell this personality type a mile away, and can easily take advantage. The likelihood of a repeat performance is high.




Well said Alex, this is most in line with my situation. she was away, and is a person that needs constant affection and attention. someone started giving it to her with me being away and a few weeks later things started happening. she was "confused". she knew it was wrong but didn't feel wrong. Yea, well sitting at this end of the table it was pretty damn wrong. in every way, angle and perspective.


----------



## MattMatt

@Lawrence79 I am sorry you had to look for us, but glad you found us.

Is your relationship salvageable?

Possibly. *But...*

She should have got the next available flight back home or boarded a Greyhound Bus. A 1,000 mile journey? A mere nothing if she wanted to save your relationship.

I think that she needs to be open, honest and transparent with you.

Counselling (as individuals and as a couple) might help but you will also need to consider if this is the first time she has cheated? 

I suggest you get STD tests done (better safe than sorry) and demand that she gets a pregnancy test done immediately. 

I think a polygraph test for her might be a good idea, too as it will help you get closure whether or not you decide to stay with her.


----------



## Lawrence79

jsmart said:


> You paid for her to better herself and within a few weeks she's already banging a guy?
> 
> You're kidding yourself if you believe she stopped banging this guy because she shed a few tears via Skype. Once you she's off the phone, she's spending the whole day together with OM, he's putting on the charm. How long do you think she'll hold out? A horny guy will lay it on thick to get a repeat performance of some new poon.
> 
> How well do you know her? She probably was a wild woman who usually hooked up with losers which is why her family is upset with her. They don't want her to mess it up with a "nice" guy.
> 
> Time to stop playing captain save a ho and just cut your losses. Put a ring on this one at your own peril.
> 
> BTW: what's up with first time cheated. There should only be a first time but your title makes it seem like you would be around for 2nd and 3rd.


Perhaps you are right bro. I have no clue. she wanted to come home immediately. I told her no. I told her that even if I don't take her back, she will have completed the school and have a future for herself without me. No, according to her family and her she has never been unfaithful once which is why it was such a shock to her family. they are so pissed at her. they about kicked her a$$ out of the family too. In all my life I have never been cheated on with any relationship hence "first time cheated". I am 38.

YOu are right though, my whole life I always play the hero. not just with women. I am always helping people out with everything it's just in my nature. but yea, captain save a ho. . . . I feel what you are saying. :|


----------



## SunCMars

Lawrence79 said:


> I just don't know how to use this site yet. I am sorry for being a novice.


Not a problem.

For this site, TAM, to work for you, you have to be inter-active. Respond accordingly to the other posters.
And do so on a regular basis....else.

Else, the other posters will just go away and respond to other people.
People have lives and can only give your' situation a quick response.

Don't worry about the questions, just answer them honestly. Remember, you are anonymous here no one knows who you are.

For example: Nobody knows you are a Martian unless you tell them. Not that they will believe you.....the fools.


----------



## marriageontherocks2

Lawrence79 said:


> Well said Alex, this is most in line with my situation. she was away, and is a person that needs constant affection and attention. someone started giving it to her with me being away and a few weeks later things started happening. she was "confused". she knew it was wrong but didn't feel wrong. Yea, well sitting at this end of the table it was pretty damn wrong. in every way, angle and perspective.


Not married? No kids? You can forgive her and wish her well, but she is not marriage material, you'll be setting yourself up for true misery if you marry this one. She can't stay loyal for a couple weeks away from you when you're dating? Dating is supposed to be the head over heals time, the easy time. In the courting phase you're dealing with relationship death here, consider yourself lucky. Many guys here find out what they're married too after 10 years, multiple kids, and hundreds of thousands in debt, with no way to move recover until they're an old man.


----------



## Lawrence79

Primrose said:


> The very first consequence for her should have been to board the next flight home. If she's there, she still will have contact with him; she will just be better at covering her tracks.
> 
> We can guarantee you that, if she chooses to stay the remainder of the two weeks, this physical affair (PA) will continue for at least that length of time.



she didn't choose, I told her to stay and to finish what she started. Regardless if I took her back or not. . . all of this would be for freaking nothing if she doesn't at least finish school. so she will have a career and future for herself without me. 

She was begging to come home and to do "what ever I wanted" towards healing these scars and putting back the pieces. I told her all I wanted was for her to finish. I didn't want her home yet anyways. This gives me 2 weeks to process all this garbage. I have had a life coach for 8 yrs off and on who knows my life and story quite well. She also coaches my girlfriend for the last 3. they had a skype session yesterday, and I meet with my life coach tomorrow. We will see what she says also.


----------



## ConanHub

Do you know anything about her walking dildo?


----------



## Lawrence79

Hopeful Cynic said:


> Even if is IS true that she ended contact with him (which is highly unlikely - cheaters lie), the fact that she didn't drop the course and come back to you right away tells you a LOT about where your relationship fits into her priorities. Very very low. Her first actions should be to seek counselling and figure out why she was capable of doing this and change that about herself. If she has no interest in exploring that or changing herself, well then, nothing stops it from happening again.
> 
> Oh, and hysterical bonding is when you have lots of crazy sex after the relationship is destabilized. That doesn't seem to be what you are describing, since she's still apart from you.


She wanted to immediately quit school and come home.

I told her not too. I didn't want her "home" yet. (she has lived with me the entire 4.5 yrs) I told her she needed to finish what she started so even if I never take her back she has a great career path for herself and her life.

I have had a life coach off and on for 8 years that knows me quite well that helped me through my first divorce. this same life coach has coached my girlfriend off and on for 3 yrs. They immediately talked on the phone. Plus the had a 1.5 hr skype session yesterday. I go in to meet up with my life coach tomorrow.

so I am not defending her but she has made all the attempts you pointed out right away. . . .

yea, I pointed out hysterical bonding because it seems so bizarre as I am feeling the complete opposite at the moment. but she isn't here either. so. . . .


----------



## Lawrence79

thedope said:


> RUN for the hills, Run for your life.
> 
> Do you wants kids in the future? If so, do you want kids that will be raised by a cheater. She pretty much cheated on you the first chance she got. I wouldn't touch her, she may have an STD. So hecareful!


yea. . .. it seems that way.

and she is being tested today.


----------



## Lawrence79

ConanHub said:


> Do you know anything about her walking dildo?


yes. he is one of the teachers. I can get him fired immediately and her kicked out of school.

He is in an "open marriage". his wife knew about it and he apparently even told my girlfriend to tell me. But she didn't. she wanted to (they all say that) but apparently wanted her cake and eat it too so she didn't. but I knew literally the first day something was wrong.

we were talking everyday, completely connected. I visited there, all good. then like 5 days later communication started dropping. she became short. used lesser feeling words. was too busy at school. blah blah ugh writing this makes me sick.


----------



## Lawrence79

SunCMars said:


> Not a problem.
> 
> For this site, TAM, to work for you, you have to be inter-active. Respond accordingly to the other posters.
> And do so on a regular basis....else.
> 
> Else, the other posters will just go away and respond to other people.
> People have lives and can only give your' situation a quick response.
> 
> Don't worry about the questions, just answer them honestly. Remember, you are anonymous here no one knows who you are.
> 
> For example: Nobody knows you are a Martian unless you tell them. Not that they will believe you.....the fools.


thank you.

The reason I went MIA is that a buddy of mine met up with me at the bar for a conversation and a couple of cold ones. I needed that.


----------



## BadGrammar

“No woman’s worth, 
Crawling on the Earth.
So, walk like a man my son”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ConanHub

Lawrence79 said:


> yes. he is one of the teachers. I can get him fired immediately and her kicked out of school.
> 
> He is in an "open marriage". his wife knew about it and he apparently even told my girlfriend to tell me. But she didn't. she wanted to (they all say that) but apparently wanted her cake and eat it too so she didn't. but I knew literally the first day something was wrong.
> 
> we were talking everyday, completely connected. I visited there, all good. then like 5 days later communication started dropping. she became short. used lesser feeling words. was too busy at school. blah blah ugh writing this makes me sick.


Ethically, he needs dealt with. I couldn't let someone use their position of authority like that.

Up to you but the dumb son of a b1tch shouldn't be using his paid position to score with students regardless of his marital situation.

This sheds light on your girl even more and it isn't good.

She starts up with him almost immediately, he knew about you and wanted her to come clean and she manipulated the whole scenario to f him while you pay him to do it.

Enjoy paying him to f her?

Like I said, not something I could let rest. He needs dealt with and she needs the boot.

Be a hero for a real woman who is worth fighting for.


----------



## ButtPunch

No marriage. No kids. 

No brainer.

18% of women cheat. 

You need to go find one of the 82%.

That's why we date instead of getting married right away.

She has shown you who she is.

It's up to you to believe her.


----------



## RWB

GusPolinski said:


> If she’s still there then they’re still banging, and you’re beyond naive to believe otherwise.
> 
> Also, no kids?
> 
> And not even married?
> 
> End it now.


^^^^^^
What Guy says.


----------



## Lawrence79

MattMatt said:


> @Lawrence79 I am sorry you had to look for us, but glad you found us.
> 
> Is your relationship salvageable?
> 
> Possibly. *But...*
> 
> She should have got the next available flight back home or boarded a Greyhound Bus. A 1,000 mile journey? A mere nothing if she wanted to save your relationship.
> 
> I think that she needs to be open, honest and transparent with you.
> 
> Counselling (as individuals and as a couple) might help but you will also need to consider if this is the first time she has cheated?
> 
> I suggest you get STD tests done (better safe than sorry) and demand that she gets a pregnancy test done immediately.
> 
> I think a polygraph test for her might be a good idea, too as it will help you get closure whether or not you decide to stay with her.



she did actually want to immediately come home. I told her not too. I told her she needed to finish what she started so that even if I don't take her back, she will have a great career and financial stability for the rest of her life.

I have a life coach of 8 yrs (off and on I only see her like once a year anymore.) my girlfriend has gone to her for the last 3 yrs off and on. she talked to her briefly immediately. then had a 1.5 hr skype meeting with her yesterday. I go in tomorrow to talk with our life coach. yes this is definitely the first time she has cheated. which is why her family freaked out and is so angry with her. she never has before, and I am the first person her family has ever swooned over. they love me to death.

She is getting tested today. for both.

since this has all come out. she has been fully transparent. Every single question of have asked she has given me an answer. EVERY question i have asked. 90% of them I didn't want to hear but I wanted to know and she told me. but a polygraph maybe down the road if there even is a chance at salvation. she has made big attempts already though.


----------



## smi11ie

Seriously...just shell out the cash (if you can) and get an investigator on her for a few days. 

Or start making random calls to restaurants or places she might have been and say you would like to complain about a meal "you two" had and give a discription. If they remember anything then gaslight them saying something like "you don't even know what we look like" etc.... (ok I know this is a long shot)

One of the worst parts of this is what she did in the 2 weeks after confrontation. This will be a HUGE talking point. It's better to know for sure.


----------



## tom72

Well if I could go back in my relationship a bit, I wish I set boundaries and not be so nice. Thought I might share my opinion

Your women needs a hard dosage of consequences. Show her that you won't tolerate the ****, and if she's committed to get home straight away. How are you letting this go? Sorry but your initial reaction is very important on setting the rules and expectations of moving forward. Her career and financial stability isn't really the issue right now, can always go back to it under different terms. How can she respect you if you can't respect your self? Balls up and lay down the law, bring back your manhood. Your just avoiding conflict and thinking on what to do, trust your instincts. Being nice isn't going to do anything except allow you to be walked all over

I know I sound like a hypocrite (if you see my other thread) however I regret on how I handled my situation.

Read up on "No more mr nice guy". Doesn't mean you turn into a jerk and be a controlling freak, just a bit of self respect (as hard as it may be at the moment)


----------



## Lostinthought61

Lawrence79 said:


> yes. he is one of the teachers. I can get him fired immediately and her kicked out of school.
> 
> He is in an "open marriage". his wife knew about it and he apparently even told my girlfriend to tell me. But she didn't. she wanted to (they all say that) but apparently wanted her cake and eat it too so she didn't. but I knew literally the first day something was wrong.
> 
> we were talking everyday, completely connected. I visited there, all good. then like 5 days later communication started dropping. she became short. used lesser feeling words. was too busy at school. blah blah ugh writing this makes me sick.


As soon as the course is complete i would definitely report him tot he school, i do not care if they are consenting adults he is in position which can take advantage of students so i would ABSOLUTELY report him to the school or organizations. and ai would also call him as soon as the class was done...he may have an open marriage but you do not have an open relationship and he as a teacher shoudl have known that...and tell him that he just destroyed a relationship...i am only on the fence right now if you shoudl not press charges on him with the school, they must have a rule agaisnt fraternizing with current students.


----------



## Lawrence79

BadGrammar said:


> If she were really serious about committing to you, she would have been on the first flight home despite the financial consequences. Actually, she would have come home to tell you in person...not VIA SKYPE! She has zero respect for you. She cheats on you during a code training boot camp that you paid for?!! Amazing. BTW, chances are she did not cut it off at all. She is still there and so is the other dude. I would dump her immediately and send her a bill for the travel expenses and camp fees.
> You state that you are both very compatible... this is only true as far as a muddy boot is compatible with a doormat. She has treated you 1000x better than any woman has in the past? If you believe this, it is very sad.
> Take comfort in the fact that this woman is poison. Poison for you and any other man she manages to manipulate so cruelly. Get out now.
> Best, BG


not to defend her as you make valid points of course.

she did immediately want to come home. multiple times. I told her not to. I told her to finish what she started so that at least she had a great career path and financial stability without me.

I have had a life coach off and on for 8 yrs. my girlfriend has gone to her for 3 yrs. she immediately reached out to her, and talked. then did a 1.5 hr skype session with her yesterday.

but I know what you mean, i digress :|


----------



## Lawrence79

Lostinthought61 said:


> As soon as the course is complete i would definitely report him tot he school, i do not care if they are consenting adults he is in position which can take advantage of students so i would ABSOLUTELY report him to the school or organizations. and ai would also call him as soon as the class was done...he may have an open marriage but you do not have an open relationship and he as a teacher shoudl have known that...and tell him that he just destroyed a relationship...i am only on the fence right now if you shoudl not press charges on him with the school, they must have a rule agaisnt fraternizing with current students.


damn right. and agreed. I emailed the school already. anonymously first. didn't say the city or the people involved just asked what the policy was for sexual teacher/student relationships were. so I have some ammo. but I was thinking the same thing.


----------



## tom72

Lawrence79 said:


> damn right. and agreed. I emailed the school already. anonymously first. didn't say the city or the people involved just asked what the policy was for sexual teacher/student relationships were. so I have some ammo. but I was thinking the same thing.


I'm pretty sure she lost her right to the course when the cheating occurred. Doesn't mean that she can't do it in the future.

You don't have much to lose (I know it seems like she is the love of your life). Use this problem as a tool to grow a set as it'll help you in the future, outside of you current relationship

Also try and see where you went wrong for this affair to occur. She should've felt safe (gave her no reason to look elsewhere), cared for (emotional and phsyical needs).


----------



## Yeswecan

Rick Blaine said:


> If you are not married to this women, then she failed the marriage interview. Dating is a selection process. She's a bad candidate for marriage. Some things are complicated in life. This isn't one of those things. Sorry for your pain.


Quoted for truth. Not marriage material.


----------



## Lawrence79

tom72 said:


> Well if I could go back in my relationship a bit, I wish I set boundaries and not be so nice. Thought I might share my opinion
> 
> Your women needs a hard dosage of consequences. Show her that you won't tolerate the ****, and if she's committed to get home straight away. How are you letting this go? Sorry but your initial reaction is very important on setting the rules and expectations of moving forward. Her career and financial stability isn't really the issue right now, can always go back to it under different terms. How can she respect you if you can't respect your self? Balls up and lay down the law, bring back your manhood. Your just avoiding conflict and thinking on what to do, trust your instincts. Being nice isn't going to do anything except allow you to be walked all over
> 
> I know I sound like a hypocrite (if you see my other thread) however I regret on how I handled my situation.
> 
> Read up on "No more mr nice guy". Doesn't mean you turn into a jerk and be a controlling freak, just a bit of self respect (as hard as it may be at the moment)



She did attempt to immediately quit school and come home. I told her not to and finish what she started. she got a scholarship for the school $16k of free school money. Her parents paid for the place she is staying, she got a small loan herself for living expenses, and I am paying her normal bills while she is off at school since she is not working (car payment, insurance, etc)



Well I did. . . sorta. my reaction is what snapped her a$$ out of la la land. she knows my pain. for the first time in 4.5 yrs, I SCREAMED my pain at her. for 45 minutes of everything I could think of. and she allowed me the space to do it. and she knew she deserved every bit of it.

I told her i didn't know what I was doing with her but I didn't want her home. I told her 5 things. to come clean with her mom, which she did. cut if off with dude which she says she did (swore on her grandfathers grave), reach out to our mutual life coach which she did a 1.5 hr skype session yesterday, to get tested, and to stay and finish the damn school. oh and to be fully transparent with me to ever disgusting detail. and she has. 90% of the questions are things that i did not want to hear but wanted to know. she told me everything.

not making excuses, and everything you say I can agree with. this is just where it's at currently. she has 2 weeks left of school till she comes "home"


----------



## ConanHub

Get in contact with OM.

Let him know you have him by the balls?

Since turn about is fair play, is his wife attractive?

My advice is to think about turning the weapon used on you against those that thought nothing of wielding it against you.

Nothing teaches like reversing the situation.

Hard lessons are called for here.

Be a hard teacher.


----------



## BadGrammar

It is amazing to me that any man would even consider staying with someone like this. You encouraged her to stay there and finish up the course in order to ensure her financial future? Are you sh!++!ng me!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Yeswecan

You keep stating your STBXGF wanted to come home immediately? Why? Because of you or the idea that her family dropped her like a bad habit? Honestly, no kids. Why bother?


----------



## tom72

Lawrence79 said:


> She did attempt to immediately quit school and come home. I told her not to and finish what she started. she got a scholarship for the school $16k of free school money. Her parents paid for the place she is staying, she got a small loan herself for living expenses, and I am paying her normal bills while she is off at school since she is not working (car payment, insurance, etc)
> 
> 
> 
> Well I did. . . sorta. my reaction is what snapped her a$$ out of la la land. she knows my pain. for the first time in 4.5 yrs, I SCREAMED my pain at her. for 45 minutes of everything I could think of. and she allowed me the space to do it. and she knew she deserved every bit of it.
> 
> I told her i didn't know what I was doing with her but I didn't want her home. I told her 5 things. to come clean with her mom, which she did. cut if off with dude which she says she did (swore on her grandfathers grave), reach out to our mutual life coach which she did a 1.5 hr skype session yesterday, to get tested, and to stay and finish the damn school. oh and to be fully transparent with me to ever disgusting detail. and she has. 90% of the questions are things that i did not want to hear but wanted to know. she told me everything.
> 
> not making excuses, and everything you say I can agree with. this is just where it's at currently. she has 2 weeks left of school till she comes "home"


Its good that you've vented etc. Does it feel right for YOU that your paying her bills while she comitted the act? Do you trust her for 2 weeks up there?

Don't you think she should be heading back, feeling the consequences from her family too? Let her explain why her parents wasted money for accomodation because of her selfishness.

Its easy for me to express my opinion however i understand how hard it is to act sometimes. Go with your gut feel (without the nice guy coming into play such as her studies) because that works for you, not her. I'm sure she regrets it and dissapointed in her self however your needs have to be met.

Reread your posts and see if it makes sense in letting her stay. Would you advise anybody in the same situation to let her stay for another 2 weeks?

Sent from my SM-T805Y using Tapatalk


----------



## Satya

Lawrence79 said:


> He is in an "open marriage". *his wife knew about it and he apparently even told my girlfriend to tell me. But she didn't.* she wanted to (they all say that) but apparently wanted her cake and eat it too so she didn't. but I knew literally the first day something was wrong.


Unless these words come from the other man's wife directly to your ears, do not believe them. Very, VERY often, a cheater will lie about their relationship status to "excuse" their actions and make it seem like it's perfectly acceptable to have done what they did.

And IF open marriage is their style, that's irrelevant. IT'S NOT YOURS.


----------



## TJW

Lawrence79 said:


> cut if off with dude which she says she did (swore on her grandfathers grave)


That is yet to be seen. I would put no stock whatsoever in the oath of an adulterer. And, yes, that is what she STILL IS. Maybe 5 years from now, she won't be, but 5 weeks from now, nothing will have changed.

I want you to know, that it is quite common for people to continue affairs after D-day. I want you to be prepared, and completely take charge of your own life. My own personal opinion is that your life will be better without her. It's unclear to me whether she is your wife or not. If she's not, then I surely advise you to keep it that way.



Satya said:


> a cheater will lie about their relationship status to "excuse" their actions and make it seem like it's perfectly acceptable to have done what they did.


Yep. They say and do everything to make their adultery seem "acceptable", or that it is the result of anything other than their own damnable evil lust.


----------



## sokillme

Lawrence79 said:


> she did actually want to immediately come home. I told her not too. I told her she needed to finish what she started so that even if I don't take her back, she will have a great career and financial stability for the rest of her life.
> 
> I have a life coach of 8 yrs (off and on I only see her like once a year anymore.) my girlfriend has gone to her for the last 3 yrs off and on. she talked to her briefly immediately. then had a 1.5 hr skype meeting with her yesterday. I go in tomorrow to talk with our life coach. yes this is definitely the first time she has cheated. which is why her family freaked out and is so angry with her. she never has before, and I am the first person her family has ever swooned over. they love me to death.
> 
> She is getting tested today. for both.
> 
> since this has all come out. she has been fully transparent. Every single question of have asked she has given me an answer. EVERY question i have asked. 90% of them I didn't want to hear but I wanted to know and she told me. but a polygraph maybe down the road if there even is a chance at salvation. she has made big attempts already though.


How transparent can she be when she is miles away?


----------



## Lawrence79

tom72 said:


> Its good that you've vented etc. Does it feel right for YOU that your paying her bills while she comitted the act? Do you trust her for 2 weeks up there?
> 
> Don't you think she should be heading back, feeling the consequences from her family too? Let her explain why her parents wasted money for accomodation because of her selfishness.
> 
> Its easy for me to express my opinion however i understand how hard it is to act sometimes. Go with your gut feel (without the nice guy coming into play such as her studies) because that works for you, not her. I'm sure she regrets it and dissapointed in her self however your needs have to be met.
> 
> Reread your posts and see if it makes sense in letting her stay. Would you advise anybody in the same situation to let her stay for another 2 weeks?
> 
> Sent from my SM-T805Y using Tapatalk


Of course It doesn't feel right paying her bills in regards to the dumb, naive, illogical, selfish actions she took. 

her family damn near disowned her. the also screamed at her to the point of her being damn near suicidal. she definitely is in a puddle of her own down self inflicted sorrow and pain especially now the whle family has defended me 110%. Her parents even said they are cutting the $$ to aiding her there, they don't support this one bit. they were going to let her ass be homeless up there. it SEEMS, she knows what she did was disgustingly wrong, and is overwhelming sorry. I don't forgive her though. maybe in 5 yrs i will, idk.

good advice though I appreciate your responses, thank you.


----------



## Rick Blaine

The fact you want her to finish the course makes a gigantic statement about your commitment to her, and it it points to the dissolution of the relationship. Since you are not married it is a little more understandable so long as you don't plan on taking her back. (I would not take her back btw.) If you do choose to reconcile having her stay in the class will be the death knell of your future relationship because you not only failed to enforce a critical boundary but you didn't care that she was doing another man and let it keep happening. 

So your decision is an easy one. Let her go. If she were your wife my advice would be different. 

Oh, and blow the whistle on that scoundrel disguised as a teacher today. Do not wait, do not pass Go. Do it now. Let his wife know too. Don't believe the story that she already does. Verify by reaching out to her yourself.


----------



## Lawrence79

sokillme said:


> How transparent can she be when she is miles away?


Well, who knows. but the questions I was asking. . . .the answers were pretty transparent. I didn't hold back my interrogation. there was no hiding. some of the answers couldn't have been less graphic. and with this it seems pretty damn transparent. 

But, I know what you mean for sure.


----------



## SunCMars

Tatsuhiko said:


> This is a fallacy I see a lot. The assumption is that if one married woman is cheating, there is exactly 1 married man she is cheating with. Therefore there are always an equal number of cheaters of both genders.
> 
> It doesn't work this way, mathematically, for many reasons. One unmarried man can cheat with multiple married wives. One in-the-closet married man can cheat with multiple other married men.* A single woman who is sleeping with her married boss is not a cheater, in the strictest sense of the word.*


The strictest sense of the word.

She is cheating the trust that the married man's wife puts in her..NOT to eff her husband.

And, of course, she is cheating Death...at the hands of the betrayed wife.
She is cheating her future at her place of employment. And cheating on, breaking the companies rules.
She is given a paycheck for duties assigned and completed. Not for effing the boss.

Then again, 'my strict' is always your optional principle. Not carved from stone as in A-Priori.


----------



## TJW

Lawrence79 said:


> Of course It doesn't feel right paying her bills in regards to the dumb, naive, illogical, selfish actions she took.


Nope, and it NEVER will. Not even 50 years from now. Best thing you can do for yourself is to not pay any more of them.



Lawrence79 said:


> I don't forgive her though. maybe in 5 yrs i will, idk.


Forgiveness requires time. 5 years is not an unreasonable self-expectation.


----------



## Lawrence79

BadGrammar said:


> It is amazing to me that any man would even consider staying with someone like this. You encouraged her to stay there and finish up the course in order to ensure her financial future? Are you sh!++!ng me!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


nope, not ****ting you. Vengeance is an ugly thing. It's the Buddhist nature of me. Laugh all you want, but compassion is not a weakness. it's a strength. Karma will get her. Most likely when I don't let her back in my life. That will cause enough pain and damage for a lifetime. She sure had it good.


----------



## Yeswecan

Lawrence79 said:


> Of course It doesn't feel right paying her bills in regards to the dumb, naive, illogical, selfish actions she took.
> 
> her family damn near disowned her. the also screamed at her to the point of her being damn near suicidal. she definitely is in a puddle of her own down self inflicted sorrow and pain especially now the whle family has defended me 110%. Her parents even said they are cutting the $$ to aiding her there, they don't support this one bit. they were going to let her ass be homeless up there. it SEEMS, she knows what she did was disgustingly wrong, and is overwhelming sorry. I don't forgive her though. maybe in 5 yrs i will, idk.
> 
> good advice though I appreciate your responses, thank you.


Sir, this will haunt you for the rest of your life. Trust me in this. I was the one in school while GF was at home hugging another guys nuts. I got the silent treatment for a week. Gut was working overtime as a result. It was a no brainer for me. Dropped her like a bad habit. She attempted to get back together. I was not having it. Best decision I made. She went on to cheat, marriage, kids, cheat again and now a single mother. You have dodged a bullet IMO. This happened over 25 years ago. I think about it from time to time. Glad I walked.


----------



## anchorwatch

@Lawrence79,

She is not a stable individual. She has low self-esteem and no strong personal boundaries. That's one of the reasons this predator was able to pick her out and be successful at seducing her. 

Will you be able to trust someone with such low boundaries going forward? Someone who can be so easily led and so quickly chose betrayal for self-gratification? At your ages, it will take lots of effort on her part and extended periods of time to address these behaviors, without any guaranty of success. Being the white knight trying to rescue the damsel in distress does not work. 

White Knight Syndrome

I'll tell you the same thing I tell all young men looking for a life partner.You are looking for a partner, not a project. 

Best


----------



## MyRevelation

Lawrence79 said:


> nope, not ****ting you. Vengeance is an ugly thing. It's the Buddhist nature of me. Laugh all you want, but *compassion is not a weakness*. it's a strength. Karma will get her. Most likely when I don't let her back in my life. That will cause enough pain and damage for a lifetime. She sure had it good.


No, but being a doormat is a weakness. You need a good dose of self-respect. Seriously, you're still paying her bills, while she's still in contact with OM, and you're not even M'd to her. 

Her parents know her better than you and they cut off the money train immediately and are considering disowning her, and yet you ... the BF ... are effectively paying for her to stay in contact with OM while still considering if you have a future with her.

In all seriousness, knowing what I know and if I were in your position, I'd call her up and tell her that you're done and inform her not to contact you again, and that you have written your last check for her benefit, goodbye ... THEN ... I would contact the governing body of this "school, class, camp, whatever" and blow up OM's world.

Why would you wait on some fairy tale like "karma" when you have the power within yourself to exact your own justice?


----------



## Lawrence79

eric1 said:


> The reason she was not on the next flight is because she wants two more weeks to date this guy.
> 
> Period.




Well, no. She wanted to immediately quit school and come home to me. She lost her way. I told her no, and to finish out the 2 weeks and graduate. Because even this is bigger than just me, or my fellings. I may not take her back, most likely won't. . . but I still wanted her to finish because she will at least have a career and financial future for herself. Vengeance can be a nasty thing. she will suffer enough after I end this. Karma will play itself out with out me needing to do anything extra.


----------



## BadGrammar

Look, you sound like a young man with a lot of potential. Potential to thrive personally and professionally. In my opinion, you need to shake this notion that she has treated you well in the past. I believe that if you do not make a decisive break with this woman, it will jeopardize that great potential. Unfortunately, this means breaking off ties with anyone closely associated with her... including her family members that care so much for you. That may seem harsh and unwarranted, but you must think of yourself and your future. Lingering ties associated with this level of personal trauma are bound negatively impact your ability to move on, heal and prosper.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Lawrence79

MyRevelation said:


> No, but being a doormat is a weakness. You need a good dose of self-respect. Seriously, you're still paying her bills, while she's still in contact with OM, and you're not even M'd to her.
> 
> Her parents know her better than you and they cut off the money train immediately and are considering disowning her, and yet you ... the BF ... are effectively paying for her to stay in contact with OM while still considering if you have a future with her.
> 
> In all seriousness, knowing what I know and if I were in your position, I'd call her up and tell her that you're done and inform her not to contact you again, and that you have written your last check for her benefit, goodbye ... THEN ... I would contact the governing body of this "school, class, camp, whatever" and blow up OM's world.
> 
> Why would you wait on some fairy tale like "karma" when you have the power within yourself to exact your own justice?


I did stop paying bills. I am selling her vehicle.

Karma is not a fairy tale. and when I don't take her back, karma will deliver all the suffering to her all on it's own. This will destroy this girl. I know it. I know her. she royally f*cked up.

But you still bring up very valid points and thanks for your response, truly.


----------



## Yeswecan

Lawrence79 said:


> Well, no. She wanted to immediately quit school and come home to me. *She lost her way. * I told her no, and to finish out the 2 weeks and graduate. Because even this is bigger than just me, or my fellings. I may not take her back, most likely won't. . . but I still wanted her to finish because she will at least have a career and financial future for herself. Vengeance can be a nasty thing. she will suffer enough after I end this. Karma will play itself out with out me needing to do anything extra.


No sir. The map was perfectly clear. Stop with the KISA and paying for the remaining schooling.


----------



## ButtPunch

Think with your head

Not your heart


----------



## Lawrence79

BadGrammar said:


> Look, you sound like a young man with a lot of potential. Potential to thrive personally and professionally. In my opinion, you need to shake this notion that she has treated you well in the past. I believe that if you do not make a decisive break with this woman, it will jeopardize that great potential. Unfortunately, this means breaking off ties with anyone closely associated with her... including her family members that care so much for you. That may seem harsh and unwarranted, but you must think of yourself and your future. Lingering ties associated with this level of personal trauma are bound negatively impact your ability to move on, heal and prosper.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I can whole heartedly agree with all of that. and ultimately how I feel. at this point, this trama will be unhealable with this person. Moving on would bring faster recovery and let this fade off into the distance. I am young. I am sucessful. I own a company with 50 employees. I have a decent head on my shoulders. all of this is just such a shame. thanks for your reply


----------



## anchorwatch

Lawrence79 said:


> I did stop paying bills. I am selling her vehicle.
> 
> Karma is not a fairy tale. and when I don't take her back, karma will deliver all the suffering to her all on it's own. This will destroy this girl. I know it. I know her. she royally f*cked up.
> 
> But you still bring up very valid points and thanks for your response, truly.


We learn by mistakes and the consequences that come from them. She will too.


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## Lawrence79

Yeswecan said:


> No sir. The map was perfectly clear. Stop with the KISA and paying for the remaining schooling.


what does KISA mean?

I am not paying for the schooling. she earned a scholarship. I was only paying her normal bills while she wasn't working. her vehicle is in my name. I own it basically. I am going to sell it.

but you are right. a direction violation.


----------



## anchorwatch

KISA = Kight in Shinging Armor


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## ConanHub

Lawrence79 said:


> what does KISA mean?
> 
> I am not paying for the schooling. she earned a scholarship. I was only paying her normal bills while she wasn't working. her vehicle is in my name. I own it basically. I am going to sell it.
> 
> but you are right. a direction violation.


Like it. I'm not a Buddhist but warrior monks and I are kindred.

You seem like a warrior. Hope so anyway.


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## Rick Blaine

A lot of 2x4's being given to the OP. He doesn't deserve them because he is just learning about his gf's tryst and processing what is happening. He seems to have a good head on his shoulders. I think he will do the right the thing. But give him some time to make his decisions before jumping to conclusions. This is happening in real time.

Hang in there, Lawrence.


----------



## TDSC60

I will break from the crowd and say good idea to tell her to stay and finish the school. It gives you a chance to contemplate what you want to do without her crying in the next room. Is this the first time since you moved in together that you have been separated for an extended period of time? If it is, then her going to the school was something of a test for your relationship and she failed the test miserably. 

Your GF is the type who needs male attention constantly and she will give sex to keep the attention coming. This type of woman does not change that mindset. She probably does not even recognise it in herself, but it is who she is.

What does the future look like for you if you take her back? You will have to be 100% focused on her. You will need to lavish attention on her without fail - every single day. Because if you become busy with life's other challenges, she will not be getting the attention she feels she needs and WILL accept it from another guy and eventually, perhaps quickly, jump into bed with him to keep the attention going. After all, she admits that she did not think it was wrong this time. 

Is this the type of relationship you want in the future? The was a failure of her base character, it is not something that changes overnight. 

Oh - hysterical bonding is the urge to have sex with a wayward to reclaim what once was yours. Since the idea of sex with her now turns your stomach, I would not worry about hysterical bonding.

Take the next two weeks to weigh your options and make the decision to take a chance with her or move on. 

My personal view is that she dropped her panties so quickly once she was separated from you, taking a chance on her future behavior is not worth the cost and pain to you.


----------



## TJW

MyRevelation said:


> Her parents know her better than you and they cut off the money train immediately and are considering disowning her


This "speaks" quite loudly.... it probably means this ain't her first rodeo....



Lawrence79 said:


> Vengeance is an ugly thing.
> Laugh all you want, but compassion is not a weakness. it's a strength.
> Karma will get her. Most likely when I don't let her back in my life.


I'm not Buddhist, but the bible definitely agrees with these statements you have made. 

I'm not laughing. Compassion is one of God's attributes, and is definitely a strength.

The bible never uses the word "Karma" but it does well-describe the intents of man and the resulting events, which follow the definition of Karma.

Your GF has lost deeply. She has lost a man who would have been a terrific husband to her and father to her children. It isn't vengeance, only the
natural result of her behavior.


----------



## TDSC60

Lawrence79 said:


> I can whole heartedly agree with all of that. and ultimately how I feel. at this point, this trama will be unhealable with this person. Moving on would bring faster recovery and let this fade off into the distance. I am young. I am sucessful. I own a company with 50 employees. I have a decent head on my shoulders. all of this is just such a shame. thanks for your reply


Now we know why she is crying and begging. She sees the gravy train leaving the station and she does not have a seat on it.


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## sokillme

Lawrence79 said:


> Well, who knows. but the questions I was asking. . . .the answers were pretty transparent. I didn't hold back my interrogation. there was no hiding. some of the answers couldn't have been less graphic. and with this it seems pretty damn transparent.
> 
> But, I know what you mean for sure.


And you assume she is telling you the truth why? History shows she is not the most reliable.


----------



## MattMatt

Lawrence79 said:


> yes. he is one of the teachers. I can get him fired immediately and her kicked out of school.
> 
> He is in an "open marriage". his wife knew about it and he apparently even told my girlfriend to tell me. But she didn't. she wanted to (they all say that) but apparently wanted her cake and eat it too so she didn't. but I knew literally the first day something was wrong.
> 
> we were talking everyday, completely connected. I visited there, all good. then like 5 days later communication started dropping. she became short. used lesser feeling words. was too busy at school. blah blah ugh writing this makes me sick.


Open marriage. Yeah, right, for sure. 

Please do not think about getting him fired.
*
Just get him fired NOW!*

How many other relationships has he damaged or destroyed? Who knows? But let yours be the last one.


----------



## michzz

Lawrence79 said:


> Well, no. She wanted to immediately quit school and come home to me. She lost her way. I told her no, and to finish out the 2 weeks and graduate. Because even this is bigger than just me, or my fellings. I may not take her back, most likely won't. . . but I still wanted her to finish because she will at least have a career and financial future for herself. Vengeance can be a nasty thing. she will suffer enough after I end this. Karma will play itself out with out me needing to do anything extra.


Um, a 10-week bootcamp does not a career make. But a 2+-week affair on a bootcamp you paid for is a life changing event.

Screw the cost of the bootcamp. When she can pay for a repeat of it on her own AFTER you toss her aside, that's a good life lesson for her on the impact of infidelity.

BTW, do get checked for STDs and insist that she do likewise and show you the official results.

BTW 2, Women are excellent criers. My ex-wife was crying and swearing on the Bible that she got from her father when she said she was going to coffee, nothing else, with a "friend" from the apartments she managed. And how dare I think otherwise. She was banging the guy within the hour.

Please do not let your emotional state fog your judgment about what has happened. she is shopping for options. But she is willing to use your resources.

Meh.


----------



## toblerone

Learn this ONE WEIRD TRICK to **** everything up when you've got it made! Buddhists hate it!


----------



## JayDee7

Do not have sex with her again OP. Sex will bond you to her again. 
Think with the big head, sounds like you are. You are repulsed by the thought of touching her or having sex with her again as you should be. She has been penetrated by another mans penis, she has had another mans penis in her mouth and kissed another man, while she is supposed to be committed to you. You know you cannot kiss her or make love to her the same ever again. 
Leave, break it off, tear it off like a band aid, swiftly.
You know right now because your mind is not clouded by your lust. Once she?s back and if you have sex with her and hold her and kiss her she will have you back under her feminine charm, under her spell, you will find comfort in her again and her words of reassurance will comfort your heart and mind, but in reality she cheated and she broke the commitment and you know better.
Do the right thing. Leave her.


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## David51

It is obvious that you do love her, you sound like a man who has his chit together.
I believe that it is true love for you (which is nearly impossible to give up on) otherwise either you or her would be moving out. Good luck, but be advised 10 yrs from now you may be looking back and thinking “10years of my like that I’ll never be able to get back.....should have just moved on.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## sokillme

I think if you are going to have her stay I would stop all contact. Jump start your detachment, and let her suffer in the mess of her own making. I would also have her parents pick her up if you were going to. If she is living in your apartment I would box her stuff and give it to her parents. Tell your parents to tell her that you will contact her if and when you want to. Once the school is over and she has the degree or whatever blow up that teachers world. See where you are at that point.


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## JayDee7

If you booked her flight, cancel it. 

Did you ever see the movie The Help? There was a woman who baked a pie with a little bit of poop in it. She gave it to her racist and horrible boss, who ate it and loved it.
That pie is your relationship now. Do you want to partake in it?

It will never be the same OP with this big stinky poop she dumped on your relationship. Sure you love her, you have not cheated or betrayed her, it is not you it is her. Move on, find a woman who is worth your love, who deserves it, this woman does not.


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## Yeswecan

Lawrence79 said:


> what does KISA mean?
> 
> I am not paying for the schooling. she earned a scholarship. I was only paying her normal bills while she wasn't working. her vehicle is in my name. I own it basically. I am going to sell it.
> 
> but you are right. a direction violation.


KISA Knight in shining armor. Let her tote her own bills. That party should be over.


----------



## David51

Lawrence79 said:


> yes. he is one of the teachers. I can get him fired immediately and her kicked out of school.
> 
> 
> 
> He is in an "open marriage". his wife knew about it and he apparently even told my girlfriend to tell me. But she didn't. she wanted to (they all say that) but apparently wanted her cake and eat it too so she didn't. but I knew literally the first day something was wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> we were talking everyday, completely connected. I visited there, all good. then like 5 days later communication started dropping. she became short. used lesser feeling words. was too busy at school. blah blah ugh writing this makes me sick.




I just now read this......open marriage
And he wanted her to tell you. Honestly is important to him? May be he would not continue relations with her unless she told you. 

I have a personal rule....never make an important decision while I am angry however it would be awfully hard to not have her belonging removed from my home and into storage and change the locks on the doors.If this were the other way around your stuff would probably be out in the yard on fire.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## bandit.45

Lostinthought61 said:


> As soon as the course is complete i would definitely report him tot he school, i do not care if they are consenting adults he is in position which can take advantage of students so i would ABSOLUTELY report him to the school or organizations. and ai would also call him as soon as the class was done...he may have an open marriage but you do not have an open relationship and he as a teacher shoudl have known that...and tell him that he just destroyed a relationship...i am only on the fence right now if you shoudl not press charges on him with the school, they must have a rule agaisnt fraternizing with current students.


Report what? They aren't married. There is no marriage being broken up or family split by this teacher's actions. He may get called in and lectured but nothing will happen to him. If he is a tenured professor or instructor he is almost untouchable.


----------



## bandit.45

Lawrence79 said:


> Well, no. She wanted to immediately quit school and come home to me. She lost her way. I told her no, and to finish out the 2 weeks and graduate. Because even this is bigger than just me, or my fellings. I may not take her back, most likely won't. . . but I still wanted her to finish because she will at least have a career and financial future for herself. Vengeance can be a nasty thing. she will suffer enough after I end this. Karma will play itself out with out me needing to do anything extra.


Tell me if I'm correct on the following assumptions:

1) For the past four years you have been faithful and loving towards her.

2) She has been a full or part-time student while you have footed the bill for rent, food, utilities, entertainment...

3) You have helped her by buying her a computer, paying for her books, equipment, paying for whatever her student aid wouldn't...

4) She has worked a part-time job but only buys clothes and stuff for herself. She doesn't help pay any of the household costs. 

Am I correct in these assumptions?


----------



## Yeswecan

bandit.45 said:


> Report what? They aren't married. There is no marriage being broken up or family split by this teacher's actions. He may get called in and lectured but nothing will happen to him. If he is a tenured professor or instructor he is almost untouchable.


A student is a student. He is touchable if and when it hits the news. It may not be this go around but eventually.


----------



## Lawrence79

bandit.45 said:


> Tell me if I'm correct on the following assumptions:
> 
> 1) For the past four years you have been faithful and loving towards her.
> 
> 2) She has been a full or part-time student while you have footed the bill for rent, food, utilities, entertainment...
> 
> 3) You have helped her by buying her a computer, paying for her books, equipment, paying for whatever her student aid wouldn't...
> 
> 4) She has worked a part-time job but only buys clothes and stuff for herself. She doesn't help pay any of the household costs.
> 
> Am I correct in these assumptions?


we both have been faithful, completely and totally. she worshipped me for 4 yrs in every way.

school didn't start till this past July. she applied for a scholarship and she actually got it, only was given to a handful of people. $16,000 value. totally paid for. her folks paid for her living. and so that she had "skin in the game" she took out a $3,500 loan to pay for her living expenses. My only contribution was the flight (airline miles) and paying for her current home bills since she isn't working. like her vehicle, insurance, etc. oh, and yes I bought her computer which I washed through my company so I actually didn't pay for it out of my own pocket.

correct, she does not contribute financially to any household costs. She contributes by cooking and cleaning. Her part time jobs have always paid for her own personal bills. I have helped her out over the years of course, but she has done much herself.


----------



## TDSC60

What is bothering me the most is that you write "she KNEW it was wrong, but it did not FEEL wrong".

Translation: In her mind she knew she was betraying you and it was wrong to do so, but it felt so good to f*** him she did not care about you and how it would affect you.

She opened the door and basically pulled the OM in while kicking you out. Don't go back.

On a personal note, any action based on revenge will not make you feel better. Indifference should be your goal. She did what she did and that cannot be changed. You should move on and not care about what life has in store for her. Not your problem or concern any longer.


----------



## michzz

bandit.45 said:


> Tell me if I'm correct on the following assumptions:
> 
> 1) For the past four years you have been faithful and loving towards her.
> 
> 2) She has been a full or part-time student while you have footed the bill for rent, food, utilities, entertainment...
> 
> 3) You have helped her by buying her a computer, paying for her books, equipment, paying for whatever her student aid wouldn't...
> 
> 4) She has worked a part-time job but only buys clothes and stuff for herself. She doesn't help pay any of the household costs.
> 
> Am I correct in these assumptions?





Yeswecan said:


> A student is a student. He is touchable if and when it hits the news. It may not be this go around but eventually.





Lawrence79 said:


> we both have been faithful, completely and totally. * she worshipped me for 4 yrs in every way*.
> 
> school didn't start till this past July. she applied for a scholarship and she actually got it, only was given to a handful of people. $16,000 value. totally paid for. her folks paid for her living. and so that she had "skin in the game" she took out a $3,500 loan to pay for her living expenses. My only contribution was the flight (airline miles) and paying for her current home bills since she isn't working. like her vehicle, insurance, etc. oh, and yes I bought her computer which I washed through my company so I actually didn't pay for it out of my own pocket.
> 
> correct, she does not contribute financially to any household costs. She contributes by cooking and cleaning. Her part time jobs have always paid for her own personal bills. I have helped her out over the years of course, but she has done much herself.


OK, you really need to take this girlfriend off the pedestal. Clearly, your impression of her "worshipping" you is way off.

You have been given a gift, an expensive one, but a gift. You have someone who has shown you who she is. and she has done it at a high financial cost to you, but not excessively so. She is not carrying your baby, right?

MAKE SURE YOU DO NOT IMPREGNATE HER.

Read that line twice and internalize the message.

You were nurturing someone for the long haul WITH you.

She was grooming you for her advantage.

WAY different goals.

Move on informed at how crappy some people can be masquerading as a loved one.


----------



## Lawrence79

One thing that I never shared that I am just now realizing could be part of this.

She was sexually assaulted/raped the first night she got to SF. it was devastatingly tramatic. for both of us. she was roofied, and woke up in a strange place. 

I am just now reading RTS, or rape trauma syndrome, and how just like hysterical bonding is the opposite of what you would think you do, RTS women can become hyper sexual as a result of the trauma in trying to cope with the experience. We talked constantly after this happened and then she began becoming distant. She was so damn buried in school she didn't have time to get help. 12 hr days, 13 hr days. In a perverse way it could have led to this. and I think this is partly how this guy snuck in. Because I remember a teacher offering she could "stay at his place" if she felt unsafe blah blah. It was the same guy now that i am putting this together. He made her feel safe and was feeling her emotional needs. f*cking predator. 

I am just reading on it but RTS is a very real thing. I don't know. 

man, what a mind f*ck.


----------



## toblerone

Lawrence79 said:


> She was sexually assaulted/raped the first night she got to SF. it was devastatingly tramatic. for both of us. she was roofied, and woke up in a strange place.


what

give us a ****ing timeline on this ****

are you saying that she was raped the first night she got to the boot camp?

or was she in sf a long time ago for something else

because if you're saying what I'm _assuming_ you're saying, then you're saying that within a few days of her getting raped, she's banging some other dude.

i mean, come on man. set me right on this timeline. tell me i'm wrong.

because if i'm not wrong, then that means your girlfriend may have some ****ed this dude the first night and made up the rape story to cover it, and then finally 'came clean' by admitting to it later.

i mean, i admit, i don't understand how rape ****s with people, i've never been through it. but it just seems too ****ing crazy that a chick would be having sex with another ****ing stranger so soon after being raped.


----------



## Lawrence79

toblerone said:


> what
> 
> give us a ****ing timeline on this ****
> 
> are you saying that she was raped the first night she got to the boot camp?
> 
> or was she in sf a long time ago for something else
> 
> because if you're saying what I'm _assuming_ you're saying, then you're saying that within a few days of her getting raped, and then banging some other dude.
> 
> i mean, come on man. set me right on this timeline. tell me i'm wrong.
> 
> because if i'm not wrong, then that means your girlfriend may have some ****ed this dude the first night and made up the rape story to cover it, and then finally 'came clean' by admitting to it later.
> 
> i mean, i admit, i don't understand how rape ****s with people, i've never been through it. but it just seems too ****ing crazy that a chick would be having sex with another ****ing stranger so soon after being raped.



Yes, she got there on night #1. school didn't start till day 04. didn't meet a single teacher or student till day 04. and some of the teachers didn't come till the following week. she got there got settled, went down to read and have a drink. . . she met (3) travelling Australian girls and she hung out with them and they all got drunk. . . hung out for 5 hrs or whatever. they left, and my girl stayed there to finish out her drink. she was wasted. and woke up somewhere else. doesn't remember ever talking to ANY guys when she was hanging with the girls. she woke up naked, with vomit all over her clothes, and a used condom. she was f*cking terrified. she cried to me everyday at first. was afraid to walk alone. completely traumatized. she had to uber back and forth everywhere cause she was in fear. School started and went balls to the wall with 12,13, 14 hr days. 

this relationship thing started 4 weeks later. when she became a little distant and disconnected. I know she was struggling but I wasn't there. Again reading on what RTS IS, it absolutely COULD be very much apart of this. I am not say it is. . . but I am blown away at what I am reading. I didn't know it was a thing.


----------



## wilson

toblerone said:


> because if i'm not wrong, then that means your girlfriend may have some ****ed this dude the first night and made up the rape story to cover it, and then finally 'came clean' by admitting to it later.


I would also agree with this. It's hard to imagine how she wouldn't flee back home immediately if she truly was raped/drugged as soon as she got there.

Is this her longest relationship? I'm guessing that the "new relationship" excitement has faded and she's looking for that rush again. It's very likely this will be a repeated pattern. A marriage or long relationship is not typically exciting all the time. It evolves into a comfortable normalcy. For someone who needs the high of male attraction and desire, this can lead to regular cheating (or flirting or emotional affairs).

If you stay with her, you'll have to come to terms that it will be on your shoulders to keep her from cheating. You will have to make the relationship exciting enough that she doesn't look outside the relationship. If you count on her remaining faithful through her own moral strength, you'll likely be cheated on again.


----------



## Lawrence79

wilson said:


> I would also agree with this. It's hard to imagine how she wouldn't flee back home immediately if she truly was raped/drugged as soon as she got there.
> 
> Is this her longest relationship? I'm guessing that the "new relationship" excitement has faded and she's looking for that rush again. It's very likely this will be a repeated pattern. A marriage or long relationship is not typically exciting all the time. It evolves into a comfortable normalcy. For someone who needs the high of male attraction and desire, this can lead to regular cheating (or flirting or emotional affairs).
> 
> If you stay with her, you'll have to come to terms that it will be on your shoulders to keep her from cheating. You will have to make the relationship exciting enough that she doesn't look outside the relationship. If you count on her remaining faithful through her own moral strength, you'll likely be cheated on again.


Yes, she got there to SF on night #1. school didn't start till day 04. didn't meet a single teacher or student till day 04. and some of the teachers didn't come till the following week. she got there got settled, went down to read and have a drink. . . she met (3) travelling Australian girls and she hung out with them and they all got drunk. . . hung out for 5 hrs or whatever. they left, and my girl stayed there to finish out her drink. she was wasted. and woke up somewhere else. doesn't remember ever talking to ANY guys when she was hanging with the girls. she woke up naked, with vomit all over her clothes, and a used condom. she was f*cking terrified. she cried to me everyday at first. was afraid to walk alone. completely traumatized. she had to uber back and forth everywhere cause she was in fear. School started and went balls to the wall with 12,13, 14 hr days. 

this relationship thing started 4 weeks later. when she became a little distant and disconnected. I know she was struggling but I wasn't there. Again reading on what RTS IS, it absolutely COULD be very much apart of this. I am not say it is. . . but I am blown away at what I am reading. I didn't know it was a thing.


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## Tatsuhiko

If she's claiming she was "roofied" just a few days before she had sex with the instructor, I would be _very suspicious_ of this story. It sounds more like she's been partying it up in SF with several partners and looking for excuses to justify each encounter. I wonder how many other guys she's been involved with in the short time she's been there. And as someone else mentioned, it sounds like her parents know this wasn't her first rodeo. 

Don't touch her, ever again, with a 10-foot pole. God know what you'll catch. God knows how many times she'll do this again. She is one messed up chick. Sell the car, ask her parents if you can start moving her stuff into their house. Pay off some of her bills just to ease the transition and create less headaches for yourself.


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## toblerone

ladies, i know that i don't have experience with this, and i'll never know what it is truly like. and I hate being the dude who straight up doesn't believe in a sexual assault story but...

her story is sending out so many bull**** alarms in my head.

man i get that i'm not dealing with this from your perspective. but understand that we only get what you tell us, and we feed on that. i don't know what your skype calls were like after the incident, i don't know how much went back and forth after that.

but i cannot turn off the bull**** alarms going off in my head. and i wish they would stop because they are blaring so loudly.


----------



## GusPolinski

Well... that was a convenient twist.


----------



## michzz

I now feel we've been had. Why would you leave out the most significant detail possible? You seemed to be a detail-oriented guy in your postings.

Now, no offense intended, but this whole postings is now in question in my mind. Exiting...


----------



## toblerone

michzz said:


> I now feel we've been had. Why would leave out the most significant detail possible? You seemed to be a detail-oriented guy in your postings.
> 
> Now, no offense intended, but this whole postings is now in question in my mind. Exiting...


yea that's a pretty huge detail to just leave out


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## MyRevelation

Lawrence79 said:


> I know she was struggling but I wasn't there. Again reading on what RTS IS, it absolutely COULD be very much apart of this. I am not say it is. . . but I am blown away at what I am reading. I didn't know it was a thing.


You are trying very hard to manufacture an excuse to make the WRONG decision here.

Wake the **** up ... her own parents don't believe this **** you're trying to sell yourself.

ETA ... yeah, I gotta agree with the others, this just took a turn into guano crazy land.


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## Yeswecan

How does one let a rape of their significant other slip their mind???


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## toblerone

Yeswecan said:


> How does one let a rape of their significant other slip their mind???


perhaps his flavor of buddhism teaches them to eschew memory.


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## JayDee7

Sounds more like she got drunk and had sex with someone, then regretted it the next day. Doesn?t remember it, but she was down to party with strangers and didn?t leave when the group disbanded. Sounds like she didn?t take long to go out getbwasted and get laid. Maybe she feels that was a mistake, so she?s calling it non consensual, but did she call the police? Did she go to the hospital? Did she act like a person who had been taken advantage of, or like a woman who got too drunk and laid and regretted it?
Add to that a short term sexual relationship with another man. This is after 14 weeks. Two sexual partners. 
14 weeks is not that long of a time. I could maybe understand 14 months, you get detached and you end up going out to get laid and then get infatuated with another person, that?s understandable though not forgiveable, but understandable. 14 weeks? She is just hopping from penis to penis having a good time alone in a fun and fast city.
Is that someone you want as your woman? If it is what does that say about you?


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## David51

I remember you saying that you actually went out there to visit. Your time line is f***(** she gets there, gets raped calls you.....never calls the police......a week later she is having a fling as I remember you were there 5 days before the fling started. So let me get this straight she gets raped day 4, you show up on day five but apparently leave (per your time line) don’t mention anything about the rape.....let me guess you are just making this up as you go along? My BS meter is vibrating across the table as I write this....what a **** 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## wilson

Lawrence79 said:


> Yes, she got there on night #1. school didn't start till day 04. didn't meet a single teacher or student till day 04. and some of the teachers didn't come till the following week. she got there got settled, went down to read and have a drink. . . she met (3) travelling Australian girls and she hung out with them and they all got drunk. . . hung out for 5 hrs or whatever. they left, and my girl stayed there to finish out her drink.


Tell her you need the name of the bar so you can hire a PI to get the security camera tapes. Do this in person and see how she reacts. If she's very forthcoming, then her story may be true, however unbelievable it may seem. But if she's hesitant in any way, then it likely means she's embellished the story in some way.


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## toblerone

haha if all of this is true, she gets raped, and then when she wants to come home after cheating, he's like 'nah, stay out there'.

everything about this story is awesome now.


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## Taxman

Do not bother with her drama, and what happened during this trip. The obvious thing is that she has no boundaries, and the minute she was out of sight, she gave in to other men. You speak about Karma, and I believe that she has been willfully ignorant, and therefore when she returns, she should not ever think of returning to your home. You are not married, and she has no legal bond with you. I would tell her to go to her parents. The relationship is now over, and she can find love elsewhere. Next, after ensuring that her diploma cannot be rescinded, or even if it can be, her instructor should lose his job. Now, sell her car and take her laptop back. Karma. She should return to basically a job, and nothing else. She screwed it all up, and there is no way back from this.


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## Lawrence79

GusPolinski said:


> Well... that was a convenient twist.



convenient? why would I do that purposefully. I don't know why i didn't think of it right away. I worte the post when I was in tears over the cheating and just made a mistake of not bringing it up. this whole experience has been the most difficult thing I have ever been through.

I am not making sh*t up. it's that crazy of a horror story.


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## Lawrence79

wilson said:


> Tell her you need the name of the bar so you can hire a PI to get the security camera tapes. Do this in person and see how she reacts. If she's very forthcoming, then her story may be true, however unbelievable it may seem. But if she's hesitant in any way, then it likely means she's embellished the story in some way.


she filed a report man. I saw the paperwork. I told you she was ridiculously tramatized at first. so much sh*t going on all at the same time. all she could remember was "an asian male" at the time.

none of the teachers are asian.


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## Lawrence79

Tatsuhiko said:


> If she's claiming she was "roofied" just a few days before she had sex with the instructor, I would be _very suspicious_ of this story. It sounds more like she's been partying it up in SF with several partners and looking for excuses to justify each encounter. I wonder how many other guys she's been involved with in the short time she's been there. And as someone else mentioned, it sounds like her parents know this wasn't her first rodeo.
> 
> Don't touch her, ever again, with a 10-foot pole. God know what you'll catch. God knows how many times she'll do this again. She is one messed up chick. Sell the car, ask her parents if you can start moving her stuff into their house. Pay off some of her bills just to ease the transition and create less headaches for yourself.




it was 4 weeks later. and no, this is why her parents are freaking out. . . .she has NEVER been like this. I am friends with 2 of her ex boyfriends even that can and have backed this up.


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## Yeswecan

toblerone said:


> perhaps his flavor of buddhism teaches them to eschew memory.


Good luck with that.


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## Lawrence79

toblerone said:


> ladies, i know that i don't have experience with this, and i'll never know what it is truly like. and I hate being the dude who straight up doesn't believe in a sexual assault story but...
> 
> her story is sending out so many bull**** alarms in my head.
> 
> man i get that i'm not dealing with this from your perspective. but understand that we only get what you tell us, and we feed on that. i don't know what your skype calls were like after the incident, i don't know how much went back and forth after that.
> 
> but i cannot turn off the bull**** alarms going off in my head. and i wish they would stop because they are blaring so loudly.




I . . . . can understand bro. for real. you can't make this sh*t up. but, yet it is my current reality. I have been with this girl for 4+ yrs. NOTHING has remotely EVER happened like this. I know this sounds insane but it is the truth. I lived with her every single day. I am 100% part of her life. we do everything together. this is completely out of character in every single sense of the word. and I am NOT trying to justify her actions. but I AM trying to UNDERSTAND some of it. and looking at the whole picture. which is why I am so blindsighted by it. and so is her family.

and I understand that you all can only bite on what I say, and that there are 2 sides to every story. I don't take offense to any replies. Hearing all these different perspectives is still helping me. I have insane intuition, which is why I knew literally the first day something was off. I could feel it 1,000 miles away. and with all this insanity albeit a small part of me my intuition is telling me not to do anything. yet.


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## Lawrence79

michzz said:


> I now feel we've been had. Why would leave out the most significant detail possible? You seemed to be a detail-oriented guy in your postings.
> 
> Now, no offense intended, but this whole postings is now in question in my mind. Exiting...




none taken. I don't know man. . . I was so upset when I wrote the original post and was focused on the cheating. the assault seems so damn long ago already so much has happened in such a short period of time. it absolutely should have been part of the original post. I just spaced it. no maliciously or purposfully. I am human too. 

this is the truth. this is my current reality. I would never ever waste peoples time. in anything. I appreciate everyone here taking the time to respond and I truly mean that. I apologize if you feel had. definitely not my intention.

Respectfully,


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## Yeswecan

It appears to me someone has cut loose since there was no one there to watch her. What happens next time she is not being watched? 

What is the real drive to keep after this failed relationship? Why are you looking to set yourself up for another failure down the road?


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## Lawrence79

Yeswecan said:


> It appears to me someone has cut loose since there was no one there to watch her. What happens next time she is not being watched?
> 
> What is the real drive to keep after this failed relationship? Why are you looking to set yourself up for another failure down the road?




she is young and naive and not street smart at all. So I can agree. I am 38, she is 27. She is brilliant in many other ways, these are her shortcomings for sure. She is extremely book smart though. I have been her protector and her rock. I keep her grounded, and she lifts me up because I can be too grounded sometimes. that was a good part of our balance. the behaviour and actions are ones that has never happened before. in her whole life according to her family.

the real drive for me at the moment is not to necessarily save anything. I am however trying to understand some of it. Again not trying to justify the actions. I am a modern day philospher so I guess this is spilling into how I am looking into this. it's what I do.

but you are right, what happens next time she isn't being watched? I get it. for sure.


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## Lostinthought61

Lawrence why in all this time you have not traveled to see her ?


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## wilson

Try not to get discouraged by the people who don't believe it. Assuming your story is real, you have to realize how absurd it sounds. It's only natural for people to wonder if it's true or just a work of fiction. Assuming you really want help, stay involved and you'll get good advice.

Many of us here have been around a while, are in long marriages, and have seen many stories of infidelity. From what you've described, there will not be a quick and easy solution. In fact, there will not be a solution at all. What will be needed is to constantly manage her and these kinds of situations in the future. I have no doubt she's sorry and will be on her best behavior for a while (months?), but watch out when things get back to normal. 

I can understand if you decide to try to reconcile, but only give her one more chance. And you'll have to snoop like crazy to verify her behavior. Kids will greatly complicate the situation. Not only because it ties you to her for life, but because it's common for life afterwards to be more stressful and involve more personality changes.

A future with this woman likely means you're giving up your life to be her caretaker.


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## Lawrence79

Lostinthought61 said:


> Lawrence why in all this time you have not traveled to see her ?


I have twice.


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## Lawrence79

wilson said:


> Try not to get discouraged by the people who don't believe it. Assuming your story is real, you have to realize how absurd it sounds. It's only natural for people to wonder if it's true or just a work of fiction. Assuming you really want help, stay involved and you'll get good advice.
> 
> Many of us here have been around a while, are in long marriages, and have seen many stories of infidelity. From what you've described, there will not be a quick and easy solution. In fact, there will not be a solution at all. What will be needed is to constantly manage her and these kinds of situations in the future. I have no doubt she's sorry and will be on her best behavior for a while (months?), but watch out when things get back to normal.
> 
> I can understand if you decide to try to reconcile, but only give her one more chance. And you'll have to snoop like crazy to verify her behavior. Kids will greatly complicate the situation. Not only because it ties you to her for life, but because it's common for life afterwards to be more stressful and involve more personality changes.
> 
> A future with this woman likely means you're giving up your life to be her caretaker.




I know, I have dealt with social media for a long time although I never have on here. but it's no different. on my fb I discuss big things and have an open profile so I get the good, the bad, the ugly, and the profound. I have learned how to navigate through the muck quite well and never get offended anymore. it's my Buddhist nature.

thank you for the honest reply. My situation is real and is my current reality. I would never waste another persons time. I barely have time, I am supposed to be running a company right now and instead I am on here. so I understand how valueable time is. and I can understand how ficticious this story could be. I assure you, I sure as hell wish it was.


Your last statement is one that I have always struggled with. I am a business owner and have 50 employees. I already have to be a damn caretaker here. She has come a long way, but she is still young and naive. like you elude to, it might be forever. I don't know. Thanks again though I appreciate it.

Blessings,

Ben


----------



## Yeswecan

Lawrence79 said:


> she is young and naive and not street smart at all. So I can agree. I am 38, she is 27. She is brilliant in many other ways, these are her shortcomings for sure. She is extremely book smart though. I have been her protector and her rock. I keep her grounded, and she lifts me up because I can be too grounded sometimes. that was a good part of our balance. the behaviour and actions are ones that has never happened before. in her whole life according to her family.
> 
> the real drive for me at the moment is not to necessarily save anything. I am however trying to understand some of it. Again not trying to justify the actions. I am a modern day philospher so I guess this is spilling into how I am looking into this. it's what I do.
> 
> but you are right, what happens next time she isn't being watched? I get it. for sure.


You are playing KISA here. Stop it. . It never works as you see. It is a crappy balance. Karma be damned. 

Modern day philosopher?


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## Lawrence79

Modern day philosopher?[/QUOTE]

yes. I question everything. I love to postulate life and why we are here and what does it all mean. Nothing I love more than a deep contemplation and stimulation conversation. in all facets of life. all subjects.


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## Tobyboy

Lawrence79 said:


> Modern day philosopher?


yes. I question everything. I love to postulate life and why we are here and what does it all mean. Nothing I love more than a deep contemplation and stimulation conversation. in all facets of life. all subjects.[/QUOTE]
Let me save you a bunch of time trying to figure out why your gf cheated. Because she *chose* to!!


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## TDSC60

There is one overriding fact when it comes to cheaters (and your GF is a cheater - no getting around that fact) cheaters lie. You almost never get the full truth right from the start.

There is still that statement she made that the affair did not feel wrong to her.

I do not know and have not researched Rape Trauma. I can tell you that what you have described does not sound like rape. It sounds like she just got black-out drunk and can not remember what she did.

I did have a cousin who was raped (not drunk and screaming "no" the whole time). She would jump at a loud noise. She would jump if someone touched her unexpectedly. She broke up with her BF because she simply could not stand to be touched by a male. SHE DID NOT GO OUT AND BED ANYONE WITHIN WEEKS. Just saying. It seems like you are looking for excuses to explain her behavior. The simplest explanation is that she did what she did with the teacher because he was nice and attentive to her and she agreed to sex - she wanted to do what she did. No one forced her. And she chose to hide the truth from you until you finally pushed her into being somewhat honest. 

If his wife knew and approved of the sex, did your GF move in with them for a time? Have you asked how she came to know the wife?

The simple explanation is hard to accept - but is mostly the closest you will get to the entire truth.


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## Taxman

The rape aspect sounds hinky in light of the affair following soon thereafter. Let her get her degree, but make no bones about it, this relationship is over. No matter how much she cries and screams, she needs to go to her parents' house and leave you to find someone who will not cheat, possibly lie. There is no excuse for sleeping with someone other than your SO. Distance is no excuse, drunkeness is no excuse, there is no damn excuse. Therefore, as I am wont to say, there must be consequences. First is, you and her are done. Second, her loverboy loses his job, make sure she knows that she was instrumental in that. Third, car and computer are yours, take them back, sell her laptop on ebay, sell her car, and buy yourself something nice with the funds, or spend them on a new woman. Enjoy your life, as you got to see what your SO was really all about. Find someone who will NOT exhibit behaviors that end relationships. By doing what she did, she allowed you to dodge a bullet. It may not feel like it at all, but five years from now, you will realize that this relationship was toxic.


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## michzz

Lawrence79 said:


> she is young and naive and not street smart at all. So I can agree. I am 38, she is 27.


OK, you think age 27 to be naive? And you are 38. What were you 11 years ago?

Your thought is for a 17-year-old girl.

At 27, your girlfriend is a fully-functioning adult. She is not your rescue project, stop playing wise 'daddy" to her silly "teenage" girl.

Your best course of action is to move on, get yourself away from her.

Of course, you won't do that, you want to peel the onion layer by layer only to find that there is really nothing there--wasting time.


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## David51

She had 2 weeks to go and now it is 4 weeks later? Scratching head here


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## ButtPunch

I keep seeing you rationalize staying.

Staying is not the right answer.

Your heart will heal.

I saw someone mention rape.

That's even more reason to run.

It's your life and if you marry this woman and have kids you will really find out the definition of pain.

Like seeing your kids every other weekend and selling your business to pay her half off the divorce.


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## GusPolinski

Lawrence79 said:


> convenient? why would I do that purposefully. I don't know why i didn't think of it right away. I worte the post when I was in tears over the cheating and just made a mistake of not bringing it up. this whole experience has been the most difficult thing I have ever been through.
> 
> I am not making sh*t up. it's that crazy of a horror story.


I wasn’t implying that you’re making anything up.

I was implying that SHE is.


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## Lawrence79

David51 said:


> She had 2 weeks to go and now it is 4 weeks later? Scratching head here
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


she has 2 weeks to go. 

this started 4 weeks in, now in week #8 out of 10.


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## MattMatt

MODERATOR WARNING:-

Please, do not try to game the word filter and if you think a post is not genuine, report it, don't try to call the other person out.


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## David51

MattMatt said:


> MODERATOR WARNING:-
> 
> 
> 
> Please, do not try to game the word filter and if you think a post is not genuine, report it, don't try to call the other person out.




Understood


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Lostinthought61

Lawrence, these next two weeks I'm not sure now you can remove yourself this situation to work on yourself with her constant calling as well as her family notifying you. You will need time away yourself to reflect on your next decision.


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## Sports Fan

I hope you are prepared for the serious realities you need to face. You need to ask some serious questions and not take the easy way out.


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## Taxman

I believe that Lawrence knows what to do. The unfortunate thing is that he cannot do a thing until this crap is over in San Francisco. Let her come back with a shiny new degree. She will need it to support herself in her new single life. I beleive most of us will be coaching Lawrence through the next part. Once she is back and their relationship done, you can expect a torrent of "I love you"s, you have to forgive me's, and I was drunk and stupid's. She had to know sex was the deal-breaker. (Funny, I had a couple in front of me, our FP, and our mediator, she had an affair, and she knew full well that sex was a deal-breaker, but proceeded to beg and plead, she offered hall passes, she offered punitive financial penalties. She was fully unprepared for his reply: You want to do something for me? Wow, so, you want me to have sex with a lot of other people, and you want me to bankrupt you? Hmmmm, that is what this divorce will get me, and as a bonus, when this is all over, I do not ever have to see your face in my home again. Big Bonus!)


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## TDSC60

Lawrence79 said:


> she has 2 weeks to go.
> 
> this started 4 weeks in, now in week #8 out of 10.


So you are saying that she kept the supposedly "rape" induced affair going for at least 4 weeks. All the time lying and withdrawing from you but not from her AP, the teacher. Nope. Not buying it.


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## Lawrence79

TDSC60 said:


> So you are saying that she kept the supposedly "rape" induced affair going for at least 4 weeks. All the time lying and withdrawing from you but not from her AP, the teacher. Nope. Not buying it.


No, that's not what I am saying at all. It wasn't supposed assault either. and the assault was completely different person. the cheat happened 4 weeks later. I have already explained this in detail. This teacher I feel seduced her when she was feeling worthless and broken and used. He was the one she reported it to at school. He made her fell safe, and ear to listen to, and after 3 weeks of working on her, came in for the kill. I am not negating her responsibility but this son of a b*tch was a preadator hunting down a wounded bird. I wasn't physically there for any type of support and her gullible and naive youngness swallowed it up. That distanced me, got her furhter confused and vulnerable and it happened. I feel this is a part of the puzzle. you people although best intentioned also still only know fragments of a 4+ yr relationship. what happened was not normal. it was a perfect storm and her dumb ass walked right into and yes has to face the consequences.

I was just trying to look at all variables. One of them was the assault/rape causing a form of RTS that was part of the puzzle in the affair. I never said I bought it either. But I am never one to assume anything either.


----------



## Taxman

Lawrence: The line in the above about her teacher seducing her when she was worthless broken has me thinking that you are already looking for ways to forgive her and justify to yourself why you are going to stay with her. Sorry but nothing about this adds up. I have my doubts about just about anything that has come from San Francisco. This course seems to have opened her legs an awful lot, and whether it be rape or seduction, none of it works in my head. Being analytical by nature, I cannot seem to put 2 and 2 together on this. Did other females in this course have similar experiences? Was this instructor preying on other females? One woman, two sexual assaults, one unwanted, one who knows, in the space of six weeks? 2+2 should not equal 5.


----------



## Yeswecan

Lawrence79 said:


> No, that's not what I am saying at all. It wasn't supposed assault either. and the assault was completely different person. the cheat happened 4 weeks later. I have already explained this in detail. This teacher I feel seduced her when *she was feeling worthless and broken and used. * He was the one she reported it to at school. He made her fell safe, and ear to listen to, and after 3 weeks of working on her, came in for the kill. I am not negating her responsibility but this son of a b*tch was a preadator hunting down a wounded bird. I wasn't physically there for any type of support and her gullible and naive youngness swallowed it up. That distanced me, got her furhter confused and vulnerable and it happened. I feel this is a part of the puzzle. you people although best intentioned also still only know fragments of a 4+ yr relationship. what happened was not normal. it was a perfect storm and her dumb ass walked right into and yes has to face the consequences.
> 
> I was just trying to look at all variables. One of them was the assault/rape causing a form of RTS that was part of the puzzle in the affair. I never said I bought it either. But I am never one to assume anything either.


Once again, KISA. She is gullible, hurt, vulnerable, naive. How did she make it this far in life because you paint a picture of a person who does not appear to be able to do anything with any thought put into it. You were not there to save her. What happens next time you are not there?


----------



## TDSC60

Lawrence79 said:


> No, that's not what I am saying at all. It wasn't supposed assault either. and the assault was completely different person. the cheat happened 4 weeks later. I have already explained this in detail. This teacher I feel seduced her when she was feeling worthless and broken and used. He was the one she reported it to at school. He made her fell safe, and ear to listen to, and after 3 weeks of working on her, came in for the kill. I am not negating her responsibility but this son of a b*tch was a preadator hunting down a wounded bird. I wasn't physically there for any type of support and her gullible and naive youngness swallowed it up. That distanced me, got her furhter confused and vulnerable and it happened. I feel this is a part of the puzzle. you people although best intentioned also still only know fragments of a 4+ yr relationship. what happened was not normal. it was a perfect storm and her dumb ass walked right into and yes has to face the consequences.
> 
> I was just trying to look at all variables. One of them was the assault/rape causing a form of RTS that was part of the puzzle in the affair. I never said I bought it either. But I am never one to assume anything either.


I tried to simplify and failed. This is what I glean from your posts.
1 GF arrives at school and within 48 hrs goes to a bar, gets drunk and wakes up the following morning naked, with used condom, and claims rape. Was there physical damage? There usually is with forced rape.
2 In about 4 weeks she begins to withdraw from you. Short, busy with school, no time. You get the uneasy feeling.
3 Around week 8 she finally confesses to sexual affair with teacher. Says she knows it was wrong but did not feel wrong.

It is good that you do not take her story as gospel. Some in your position do. They just cannot accept that their beloved is capable of lying. (Sex with OM - sure. But not lying). And yes, I too believe that that the predator OM seduced her. BUT your GF had to allow that to happen. After all, she even told you she knew what she was doing was wrong, but it did not feel wrong.

Questions:
1 Was sex one time or did she keep going back? I suspect at least a 4 week affair with multiple hook ups.
2 How did his wife get involved? I suspect GF was a guest at their home for a time.
3 Did the sex happen at her living place or at his home?
4 Does she justify not telling you the first time she slept with him by saying she did not want to hurt you (common - and BS)? Most likely she wanted to have her fun with OM because it felt good to have another man chase her. She never even considered that she would get caught and have to face the consequences. And how you would feel the pain of betrayal never entered her mind.

Sorry if I misunderstood the timeline.

Good luck with whatever you decide.


----------



## Primrose

Lawrence79 said:


> He made her fell safe, and ear to listen to, and after 3 weeks of working on her, came in for the kill. I am not negating her responsibility but this son of a b*tch was a preadator hunting down a wounded bird. I wasn't physically there for any type of support and her gullible and naive youngness swallowed it up. That distanced me, got her furhter confused and vulnerable and it happened. I feel this is a part of the puzzle.


Regardless of how true this is (which I tend to believe us women are not as gullible and vulnerable as some men view us).. she still ALLOWED him to fill YOUR role. She should have been coming to you for comfort. If you could not physically be there, surely she has you on speed dial. Instead she CHOSE him. If the rape is true, she still SOUGHT comfort in another man afterward. 

Actions, Lawrence. All of her actions point to her WANTING this affair with her teacher. Her teacher is not to blame here. It was up to her to stand firm in her vows and she actively chose not to.


----------



## SunCMars

Primrose said:


> Regardless of how true this is (which I tend to believe us women are not as gullible and vulnerable as some men view us).. she still ALLOWED him to fill YOUR role. She should have been coming to you for comfort. If you could not physically be there, surely she has you on speed dial. Instead she CHOSE him. If the rape is true, she still SOUGHT comfort in another man afterward.
> 
> Actions, Lawrence. All of her actions point to her WANTING this affair with her teacher. *Her teacher is not to blame here. *It was up to her to stand firm in her vows and she actively chose not to.


Of course the teacher is to blame. His job is to teach his students the curriculum provided.
Sleeping with vulnerable students is not one of his jobs.

Doing this, while common, I suppose, is not professional.
And the guy is married. 
He claimed having an open marriage. So...he is still married.

The WGF is the most culpable here, of course.

On the rape, she must have put herself in a risky situation. If it really went as she claimed. I call BS.
I think she willingly had sex with two men.
She planned on spreading her wings during this period. She planned on getting laid...and did. Twice.
This was all pre-planned, in her mind. JMO.


----------



## bandit.45

Lawrence she is lying to you my friend. Lying through her sperm-stained teeth. About everything. 

Dump her crap out, toss her clothes in bags and give them to her parents. Shut off the cards and block her on your phone.


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## Lostinthought61

Guys, regardless of what Lawrence girl was doing whether the rape happen or it didn't, the fact around the teacher as a predator is absolutely correct, regardless what Lawrence and his girl do in the aftermath of this situation, does not take away the fact that the teacher over stepped his bounds and being a former teacher i have to say what this guy did is appalling and unprofessional...YOU DO NOT SLEEP WITH YOUR STUDENTS...PERIOD. This guy is definitely in a position to manipulate someone who might be naive, again i am not excusing her actions...I and i believe Lawrence are just talking about accountability when it comes to this teacher...he is a predator and should be treated as such. That SOB should not be in the position of scoring with his student...that is disgusting.


----------



## ButtPunch

bandit.45 said:


> Lawrence she is lying to you my friend. Lying through her sperm-stained teeth. About everything.
> 
> Dump her crap out, toss her clothes in bags and give them to her parents. Shut off the cards and block her on your phone.


QFT


----------



## bandit.45

Lostinthought61 said:


> Guys, regardless of what Lawrence girl was doing whether the rape happen or it didn't, the fact around the teacher as a predator is absolutely correct, regardless what Lawrence and his girl do in the aftermath of this situation, does not take away the fact that the teacher over stepped his bounds and being a former teacher i have to say what this guy did is appalling and unprofessional...YOU DO NOT SLEEP WITH YOUR STUDENTS...PERIOD. This guy is definitely in a position to manipulate someone who might be naive, again i am not excusing her actions...I and i believe Lawrence are just talking about accountability when it comes to this teacher...he is a predator and should be treated as such. That SOB should not be in the position of scoring with his student...that is disgusting.


If he is tenured, nothing will happen.


----------



## bandit.45

She is not the first party girl to file rape charges against a made-up assailant from a minority race just to get out of explaining to a boyfriend why she’s such a ho. She won’t be the last.


----------



## Primrose

SunCMars said:


> Of course the teacher is to blame. His job is to teach his students the curriculum provided.
> Sleeping with vulnerable students is not one of his jobs.
> 
> Doing this, while common, I suppose, is not professional.
> And the guy is married.
> He claimed having an open marriage. So...he is still married.
> 
> The WGF is the most culpable here, of course.
> 
> On the rape, she must have put herself in a risky situation. If it really went as she claimed. I call BS.
> I think she willingly had sex with two men.
> She planned on spreading her wings during this period. She planned on getting laid...and did. Twice.
> This was all pre-planned, in her mind. JMO.


He is to blame for crossing a boundary as her teacher. He is not to blame for Lawrence's girlfriend betraying him. Not unless he forced himself upon her.


----------



## SunCMars

Primrose said:


> He is to blame for crossing a boundary as her teacher. *He is not to blame for Lawrence's girlfriend betraying him. *Not unless he forced himself upon her.


On this, I will fight you tooth and nail.

She would not have cheated on her boyfriend, WITH THIS JACKASS, if HE did not go along with it. Very likely encouraged it.
The teacher could have said no, he too has free will. This married tool CHOSE to sleep with OP's GF. He was not forced, EITHER. He chose to **** her.

Two people cannot have sex unless both agree to it. [rape excluded].

Of course he is at fault.
He stuck his penis in her fault line.

An earthquake at home occurred, she lost her BF and her home..home.


----------



## Primrose

SunCMars said:


> On this, I will fight you tooth and nail.
> 
> She would not have cheated on her boyfriend, WITH THIS JACKASS, if HE did not go along with it. Very likely encouraged it.
> The teacher could have said no, he too has free will. This married tool CHOSE to sleep with OP's GF. He was not forced, EITHER. He chose to **** her.
> 
> Two people cannot have sex unless both agree to it. [rape excluded].
> 
> Of course he is at fault.
> He stuck his penis in her fault line.
> 
> An earthquake at home occurred, she lost her BF and her home..home.


You can fight my opinion if you'd like, but it doesn't change how *I* view cheating. In which case, it is the fault of your spouse/significant other, as they were the only one who owe(d) you faithfulness.


----------



## MattMatt

SunCMars said:


> On this, I will fight you tooth and nail.
> 
> She would not have cheated on her boyfriend, WITH THIS JACKASS, if HE did not go along with it. Very likely encouraged it.
> The teacher could have said no, he too has free will. This married tool CHOSE to sleep with OP's GF. He was not forced, EITHER. He chose to **** her.
> 
> Two people cannot have sex unless both agree to it. [rape excluded].
> 
> Of course he is at fault.
> He stuck his penis in her fault line.
> 
> An earthquake at home occurred, she lost her BF and her home..home.


:iagree:

And all those hot, nerdy female coders for him to put the make on? Especially if he can fake the whole progressive male feminist vibe. Bolstered by the fact that his wife is cool with him seducing all those female coders. If his wife exists, and if she does, if she really does not mind.


----------



## Lostinthought61

bandit.45 said:


> If he is tenured, nothing will happen.


that might be the case but even tenured professors can be shamed and pointed out...i know i had a professor at school who was tenured and slept with my girlfriend, he definitely wished he had not in the end.


----------



## bandit.45

She’s not a girl. Not an inocdent girl manipulated into doing something she didn’t want to do. She’s a grown woman who can keep her legs closed, and who has been been well taken care of by a man who loves her. She took advantage of the OP. 

She’s a grown woman who knows right from wrong, and I guarantee if Lawrence asked her to do a lie detector test, she would admit to other men.


----------



## bandit.45

Lostinthought61 said:


> that might be the case but even tenured professors can be shamed and pointed out...i know i had a professor at school who was tenured and slept with my girlfriend, he definitely wished he had not in the end.


The OP said he could make this guy lose his job. All I’m saying is that it depends. If the guy is just an instructor then yes he could probably get fired.


----------



## TDSC60

I agree that she is far from being an innocent girl. She is a grown woman - young maybe - but still old enough to understand honesty, commitment, right, and wrong.

She has told him she knew it was wrong. So she admits to knowingly betraying him. Intellectually she understood that she should not be doing it before it happened.
She has told him that it did not FEEL wrong. That means that emotionally she got what she wanted and how he would feel about it did not enter into her decision.

I still think the assault/drugging is smoke & mirrors. 

Why did she come up with the rape story. I am not buying the story that she was drugged and then taken advantage of. It is possible, but how did she get back to her room if she was drugged. She had to tell someone where to take her or she lead the way to her room. 

It makes more sense that she was extremely drunk, sex was voluntary (what rapist/criminal is going to leave DNA in the form of a used condom at the crime scene), and her fear was that someone had seen something during the night of wild partying that would be talked about and could get back to BF. Thus the assault/drug story.

It was all intentional. She was thinking "what happens at school will stay at school". She could not hide her guilt and it gave her away. Note I said guilt not remorse - after all, according to her "it did not feel wrong".


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## bandit.45

It was not rape. I call bull**** on that.


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## GusPolinski

Let her finish the class (it’s already been paid for, so you might as well), but be done with her.

Explore the potential for a change in the instructor’s employment status afterward.

Oh, and be done with the White Knight — or, to use your words, “Captain Save A Ho” — bit as well.


----------



## SunCMars

Primrose said:


> You can fight my opinion if you'd like, but it doesn't change how *I* view cheating. In which case, it is the fault of your spouse/significant other, as they were the only one who owe(d) you faithfulness.


Since the wayward women is not OP's wife.
I will let this one pass.
I would 'just' dump her.

If she were his wife, and I were OP.
Some thing Gratis, for nothing, mind you, would come POSOMs way. 
Free of charge.

And, baby, it would hurt...
And, after the fact, I would 'not' expect that POSOM owes me anything, thereafter.
Same logic, both physical outcomes.

The first physical outcome was pleasurable for POSOM.
The second physical outcome? Return to sender, that pain. No charge, nothing owed in return.
Same logic, both physical outcomes. 

It is [not] nice to know that some people in our society forgive some people their trespasses, but not others.
This is Selective Justice

Just don't..
Just don't select me..
Expect me, to play by those rules.


----------



## SunCMars

Lostinthought61 said:


> that might be the case but even tenured professors can be shamed and pointed out...i know i had a professor at school who was tenured and slept with my girlfriend, *he definitely wished he had not in the end*.


Thank you.
Very much.


----------



## doconiram

MattMatt said:


> Open marriage. Yeah, right, for sure.
> 
> Please do not think about getting him fired.
> *
> Just get him fired NOW!*
> 
> How many other relationships has he damaged or destroyed? Who knows? But let yours be the last one.


Agree 100%.

OP, if she is staying there another couple weeks, perhaps she should wait to get tested for STDs to cover the ongoing banging that is still or will be happening. If her wonderful OM is in an open marriage, there is no telling what kind of special gift she will bring home. Hopefully, something that can be treated.

Not married and no kids... this is pretty straight forward. GTFO of this mess.


----------



## SunCMars

One thing missed here.
But not by The Typist.
Not by the well-nigh Spock Puppet.

Lawrence sensed.
Sensed her infidelity.

You see...
Her and he were lock-minded.
In each other's heads.
Truly they were...
Soul Mates. Mind-meld mates.

This Wayward Girl Friend has now cast off, defiled that endowment, that reality that all women search a lifetime for.
She gave up THAT MAN, that man who was given to her as a 'gift'. Her-His linked duality... one to each, in each others head.

A 'gift' so rare, 
That TAMsters never thought to open up.. 
To looky-see....and bare.

I waste my breath.
And my ink. The lack of, being fatal.
The rarefied dye that inks my Death


----------



## chillymorn69

What were you boots made for.?

Walking.

Run forest run!


----------



## doconiram

GusPolinski said:


> I wasn’t implying that you’re making anything up.
> 
> I was implying that SHE is.


Absolutely agree with this. It is not unusual for a cheater to lie or rewrite history... in fact, from my experience and reading on the subject it is extremely common for the cheater to make stuff up.


----------



## bandit.45

doconiram said:


> Agree 100%.
> 
> OP, if she is staying there another couple weeks, perhaps she should wait to get tested for STDs to cover the ongoing banging that is still or will be happening. If her wonderful OM is in an open marriage, there is no telling what kind of special gift she will bring home. Hopefully, something that can be treated.
> 
> Not married and no kids... this is pretty straight forward. GTFO of this mess.


I wouldn't touch her with a flame-tipped 20 foot pole. Nasty woman. Let her go find a football team to run a train on. He needs to let her gather her stuff off the front porch.


----------



## Good Guy

EleGirl said:


> Men cheat more than women, by a few percentage points these days.


Those surveys are useless as people lie on them. From personal observation, a small percentage of men have sex with a lot of women and many of these are cheaters. So numerically more women cheat I suspect. Not saying men are somehow morally superior, as many more would cheat if they had the opportunity.


----------



## colingrant

The scenarios and details in your post are rooted in two dynamics that seem to be present in 99% of infidelity, or unfaithfulness situations. The two are "predatory behavior" and "personal weakness". For men, (I'm a man and can speak to this from a man's perspective) those who are predatory, have an innate sense at identifying a female who's vulnerable. A vulnerable female has a sex scent (not literally, but figuratively), and has an ability to covertly convey her vulnerable disposition so slightly that she thinks she can even fool herself into thinking she's not. She's lying to herself though, and the predator sees nothing but an opportunity to conquer. I've been one, so I know. I've not cheated since my early 20's (girlfriend). I saw her hurt and vowed to never do it again, hence have been married 25 years without coming close to cheating. 

The female knows merely throwing a bone to a dog (predatory man) is all it takes, as he'll do the rest. A predator chooses to be a predator. He knows exactly what he is doing. Here's the thing though Lawrence, the predators aren't going anywhere. Your girl's needs for affection may be a lifelong character trait that requires fulfillment by you or by someone else if you're not there. That's a problem quite honestly. As a successful businessman, you cannot continue being successful knowing or wondering if your wife or girlfriend is okay. I'm not suggesting you ignore her needs, however you need your significant other to be strong enough in her own right to succeed at *emotional self fulfillment,* so that you can fulfill yours, if that makes sense.


----------



## BadGrammar

Many years ago I was a student at a prestigious art school. I recall how disappointed I was with the amount of open flirting that I witnessed between certain male instructors and a few attractive female students. Generally, the reciprocating females were pretty poor students. In any case, secondary motivations for their less than wholesome behavior was obvious. Occasionally, it became clear that a flirtation had advanced to a deeper relationship. This was usually accompanied by a new enhanced role for the female student... such as “studio assistant.” 
Needless to say, my respect evaporated for any instructor who betrayed their role as teacher/mentor, for the promise of a little tail.
Upon graduation, I accepted a position as an instructor at an equally prestigious art college in the same general locale. For six years I taught courses in figure and portrait painting.
During that time I would occasionally be approached by a female student with an offer to engage socially (lunch, dinner or a drink.) I always politely refused... and not because I wasn’t tempted. I was a single, hormone driven young man in my twenties. I just knew that it was wrong. A betrayal of the trust granted by the college administration, faculty, student body, and tuition paying parents. Also, I could never be completely sure of the true motivations behind those tempting invitations.

Well, that was a long way to go to throw a possibly stupid question your way. Is it possible that your girl’s betrayal was wholly or partially motivated by the desire to ensure success in the OM’s course(s)? 

I apologize for the crappy disjointed writing of this post. I am one finger typing on my iPhone.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## smi11ie

_"she is young and naive and not street smart at all. So I can agree. I am 38, she is 27. She is brilliant in many other ways, these are her shortcomings for sure. She is extremely book smart though. I have been her protector and her rock. I keep her grounded, and she lifts me up because I can be too grounded sometimes. that was a good part of our balance. the behaviour and actions are ones that has never happened before. in her whole life according to her family.

the real drive for me at the moment is not to necessarily save anything. I am however trying to understand some of it. Again not trying to justify the actions. I am a modern day philospher so I guess this is spilling into how I am looking into this. it's what I do."_



You might be right that she is your perfect match but this is the test now! If you can accept her for who she is (and she..you) then you are a perfect match....if you can't then you are not.

It might be that she is still growing and maturing and you are growth has deccelarated. This makes you in control in that she cannot control something that is growing in her. Look at the new growth she has made and envission how it will change her. Can you accept the "future" her? There is alot for you to contemplate. Meditation is good.


----------



## drifting on

Lawrence

I am unsure what you researched on RTS but, what I found is the opposite of your wife. One of the biggest is that in RTS the victim is hesitant with any new relationships. Furthermore, RTS victims shy away from any sexual activity for some time after a rape. Seems to me your wife welcomed and certainly displayed no shyness to have sex with her teacher. I don't say this to be mean, but could the rape have been reported fictitiously? I ask because I'm sure the report has basically no information, because she claimed she was drugged. No investigation by police for filing a false police report because she was drugged. 

If you can follow what I'm saying to you this could be that she had sex with her teacher and when you arrived would know something was wrong. Did she call you immediately to tell you of the rape? Was she crying and hysterical? Disheveled thoughts and FEARING men? At the hospital I work for if the victim is female, then all females do the rape kit. No men are allowed in the room with exception to doctor and police officer. This is done to help calm the victim as they are very anxious when men enter. 

You might need to dig a little deeper. At the very least I would report this teacher now to have him removed from your wife's class. Once removed or your wife moved to a new class watch her reactions. If she gets mad at you then you know your answer, she is protecting him over you and your relationship.


----------



## bandit.45

Oh what a bunch of happy horsehit...

She lied. She was not raped. She made up a fictitious story to the cops, with a fictitious racial minority "rapist", to cover her cheating. This is textbook bamboozling of the highest order.


----------



## manfromlamancha

OP I had written a response on this and it seems to have been deleted!

However, I cannot let go of the very casual way in which you introduced (quite late into the story) the "rape incident" when it should have been a major topic to discuss!!!!

I can only guess the moderators thought I was calling you out on this inappropriately on this forum and deleted my post.

Does no one else feel the same ? OP, I would really like to understand your explanation on how sleeping with her teacher trumped the rape story (a felony no less) when giving us the details!?!?!?


----------



## Lawrence79

manfromlamancha said:


> OP I had written a response on this and it seems to have been deleted!
> 
> However, I cannot let go of the very casual way in which you introduced (quite late into the story) the "rape incident" when it should have been a major topic to discuss!!!!
> 
> I can only guess the moderators thought I was calling you out on this inappropriately on this forum and deleted my post.
> 
> Does no one else feel the same ? OP, I would really like to understand your explanation on how sleeping with her teacher trumped the rape story (a felony no less) when giving us the details!?!?!?


I did reply to this somewhere in the beginning. I was so caught up in the "cheating" that I had forgot to mention it. I was literally tyuping the original post while in tears I was so upset. the assaualt happenend like almost 9 weeks ago now. . . which seems like an eternity. it was not intention nor purposeful to withhold that information. I made a human mistake. nothing more, nothing less.


----------



## Lawrence79

drifting on said:


> Lawrence
> 
> I am unsure what you researched on RTS but, what I found is the opposite of your wife. One of the biggest is that in RTS the victim is hesitant with any new relationships. Furthermore, RTS victims shy away from any sexual activity for some time after a rape. Seems to me your wife welcomed and certainly displayed no shyness to have sex with her teacher. I don't say this to be mean, but could the rape have been reported fictitiously? I ask because I'm sure the report has basically no information, because she claimed she was drugged. No investigation by police for filing a false police report because she was drugged.
> 
> If you can follow what I'm saying to you this could be that she had sex with her teacher and when you arrived would know something was wrong. Did she call you immediately to tell you of the rape? Was she crying and hysterical? Disheveled thoughts and FEARING men? At the hospital I work for if the victim is female, then all females do the rape kit. No men are allowed in the room with exception to doctor and police officer. This is done to help calm the victim as they are very anxious when men enter.
> 
> You might need to dig a little deeper. At the very least I would report this teacher now to have him removed from your wife's class. Once removed or your wife moved to a new class watch her reactions. If she gets mad at you then you know your answer, she is protecting him over you and your relationship.



there are many different reactions to RTS, including what you refer to, but also what I refer to. Again not saying this IS a direct link. It could be. . . .or it couldn't be.

The assualt/rape happened the first night she was there. she hadn't even met a single teacher yet. that wasn't till the following week. and I went there the 3rd weekend to be with her. We were still 100% at that point. 110%. I know this girl. (which is why i KNEW something was off immediately) It wasn't till the end of the next week when things started. . . .changing. but the assault was WAY before anything else. I just know every single person is different psychologically, and I was suggesting perhaps it could be linked and/or related. But, it might not be at all either. She is getting counseling already over this whole debacle. The girl is overwhelmed and confused with emotion at the moment and has been for 5 days now.


----------



## MyRevelation

How about an update as to what's happened over the last 3 days since you started this thread?

What was WGF's reaction to you and parents cutting off the $$$?

Have you told her to make alternative living arrangements when she returns?

Any luck selling her car?

Has she maintained No "out of class" Contact with OM?

Have you contacted OM's wife to inform her of A and get her side of the story?


----------



## Lostinthought61

Lawrence what is going through your head at the moment?


----------



## Yeswecan

Lawrence79 said:


> there are many different reactions to RTS, including what you refer to, but also what I refer to. Again not saying this IS a direct link. It could be. . . .or it couldn't be.
> 
> The assualt/rape happened the first night she was there. she hadn't even met a single teacher yet. that wasn't till the following week. and I went there the 3rd weekend to be with her. We were still 100% at that point. 110%. I know this girl. (which is why i KNEW something was off immediately) It wasn't till the end of the next week when things started. . . .changing. but the assault was WAY before anything else. I just know every single person is different psychologically, and I was suggesting perhaps it could be linked and/or related. But, it might not be at all either. She is getting counseling already over this whole debacle. The girl is overwhelmed and confused with emotion at the moment and has been for 5 days now.


And she is expecting her KISA to come and forgive all because she is gullible and naive. But mostly because she knows you will. And who is looking after your emotions at the moment? All of this outwardly points to a victim mentality on the part of your GF. You appear to be enabling it.


----------



## Lawrence79

smi11ie said:


> _"she is young and naive and not street smart at all. So I can agree. I am 38, she is 27. She is brilliant in many other ways, these are her shortcomings for sure. She is extremely book smart though. I have been her protector and her rock. I keep her grounded, and she lifts me up because I can be too grounded sometimes. that was a good part of our balance. the behaviour and actions are ones that has never happened before. in her whole life according to her family.
> 
> the real drive for me at the moment is not to necessarily save anything. I am however trying to understand some of it. Again not trying to justify the actions. I am a modern day philospher so I guess this is spilling into how I am looking into this. it's what I do."_
> 
> 
> You might be right that she is your perfect match but this is the test now! If you can accept her for who she is (and she..you) then you are a perfect match....if you can't then you are not.
> 
> It might be that she is still growing and maturing and you are growth has deccelarated. This makes you in control in that she cannot control something that is growing in her. Look at the new growth she has made and envission how it will change her. Can you accept the "future" her? There is alot for you to contemplate. Meditation is good.


Amen to that. been doing much meditation. it's been helping for sure.



colingrant said:


> The scenarios and details in your post are rooted in two dynamics that seem to be present in 99% of infidelity, or unfaithfulness situations. The two are "predatory behavior" and "personal weakness". For men, (I'm a man and can speak to this from a man's perspective) those who are predatory, have an innate sense at identifying a female who's vulnerable. A vulnerable female has a sex scent (not literally, but figuratively), and has an ability to covertly convey her vulnerable disposition so slightly that she thinks she can even fool herself into thinking she's not. She's lying to herself though, and the predator sees nothing but an opportunity to conquer. I've been one, so I know. I've not cheated since my early 20's (girlfriend). I saw her hurt and vowed to never do it again, hence have been married 25 years without coming close to cheating.
> 
> The female knows merely throwing a bone to a dog (predatory man) is all it takes, as he'll do the rest. A predator chooses to be a predator. He knows exactly what he is doing. Here's the thing though Lawrence, the predators aren't going anywhere. Your girl's needs for affection may be a lifelong character trait that requires fulfillment by you or by someone else if you're not there. That's a problem quite honestly. As a successful businessman, you cannot continue being successful knowing or wondering if your wife or girlfriend is okay. I'm not suggesting you ignore her needs, however you need your significant other to be strong enough in her own right to succeed at *emotional self fulfillment,* so that you can fulfill yours, if that makes sense.


Very true, thanks. and yes according to my life coach this has nothing to do with me and all with her. she did this to herself. there is something bigger going on. needing to fill a void and she is doing anything she can to numb herself. She has been drinking too. 



doconiram said:


> Agree 100%.
> 
> OP, if she is staying there another couple weeks, perhaps she should wait to get tested for STDs to cover the ongoing banging that is still or will be happening. If her wonderful OM is in an open marriage, there is no telling what kind of special gift she will bring home. Hopefully, something that can be treated.
> 
> Not married and no kids... this is pretty straight forward. GTFO of this mess.


she did go and get tested yesterday. I will find out friday.



TDSC60 said:


> I agree that she is far from being an innocent girl. She is a grown woman - young maybe - but still old enough to understand honesty, commitment, right, and wrong.
> 
> She has told him she knew it was wrong. So she admits to knowingly betraying him. Intellectually she understood that she should not be doing it before it happened.
> She has told him that it did not FEEL wrong. That means that emotionally she got what she wanted and how he would feel about it did not enter into her decision.
> 
> I still think the assault/drugging is smoke & mirrors.
> 
> Why did she come up with the rape story. I am not buying the story that she was drugged and then taken advantage of. It is possible, but how did she get back to her room if she was drugged. She had to tell someone where to take her or she lead the way to her room.
> 
> It makes more sense that she was extremely drunk, sex was voluntary (what rapist/criminal is going to leave DNA in the form of a used condom at the crime scene), and her fear was that someone had seen something during the night of wild partying that would be talked about and could get back to BF. Thus the assault/drug story.
> 
> It was all intentional. She was thinking "what happens at school will stay at school". She could not hide her guilt and it gave her away. Note I said guilt not remorse - after all, according to her "it did not feel wrong".



No, it wasn't all intentional. I assure you. she did not go there with this intention. again, I have 4.5 yrs of data on this girl. all of this is completely out of every radar and character of her. Which is why it doesn't fully add up.

The assault/rape was waaaaaaay before anything with the teacher. She told me a couple days later. she was afraid to tell me cause she felt so much shame and guilt and worthlessness. She went out there by herself as an adult, and immediately made a horrible mistake, putting herself in a bad situation, and a bad situation happened. she herself admitted she might have done it willingly too. she didn't remember literally anything. or parts and pieces rather. she confided in her best friend, then her (our life coach) then she told be and yes balled her eyes eyes and was pretty tramatized. But she never had time to even get therapy for this. school started. she had to immediately supress it. this did some psychological damage to her in my view. she was internally suffering. She felt immense guilt and shame.

But yes, with the instructor she didn't feel that. again he had her pegged. could smell her vulnerability a mile away. and after 3 weeks of working on her, being nice to her, bending an ear, blah blah. . .perfect storm. and she made some stupid atrocious decisions. that she will forever have to live with.


----------



## Lawrence79

Yeswecan said:


> And she is expecting her KISA to come and forgive all because she is gullible and naive. But mostly because she knows you will. And who is looking after your emotions at the moment? All of this outwardly points to a victim mentality on the part of your GF. You appear to be enabling it.


and . . . . you could be totally right on all accounts. I dont discount this perspective.


----------



## Lawrence79

SunCMars said:


> One thing missed here.
> But not by The Typist.
> Not by the well-nigh Spock Puppet.
> 
> Lawrence sensed.
> Sensed her infidelity.
> 
> You see...
> Her and he were lock-minded.
> In each other's heads.
> Truly they were...
> Soul Mates. Mind-meld mates.
> 
> This Wayward Girl Friend has now cast off, defiled that endowment, that reality that all women search a lifetime for.
> She gave up THAT MAN, that man who was given to her as a 'gift'. Her-His linked duality... one to each, in each others head.
> 
> A 'gift' so rare,
> That TAMsters never thought to open up..
> To looky-see....and bare.
> 
> I waste my breath.
> And my ink. The lack of, being fatal.
> The rarefied dye that inks my Death




poetry. I love this. Makes me want to pick up writing again. great time for it, no doubt. You're right too. We are connected in ways that neither one of us have ever connected with another.


----------



## Yeswecan

Lawrence


> * she made some stupid atrocious decisions*



Exactly. Why then victim mentality concerning the teacher?


----------



## Yeswecan

Lawrence79 said:


> and . . . . you could be totally right on all accounts. I dont discount this perspective.


Please don't because I suspect your GF knows full well you will ride in for the rescue. You may want to take a step back and allow your GF to figure this one out on her own.


Wanted to add one more thing....your GF went out there and looked to cut loose. Just one mans opinion. First few nights drinking until control was lost.


----------



## Lawrence79

MyRevelation said:


> How about an update as to what's happened over the last 3 days since you started this thread?
> 
> What was WGF's reaction to you and parents cutting off the $$$?
> 
> Have you told her to make alternative living arrangements when she returns?
> 
> Any luck selling her car?
> 
> Has she maintained No "out of class" Contact with OM?
> 
> Have you contacted OM's wife to inform her of A and get her side of the story?


once all was pulled out from under her feet, she snapped into reality reap quick.
She will be staying at her Grandma's when she returns.
It's a jeep. It's in my name. (her name secondary) She has always made the payments but I put $8,000 into myself with the tires, lift, etc etc. I still haven't decided if I want to sell it. I love the damn jeep. 
Yes, she has cut all ties. and now everything is awkward.
No, I haven't. But the girlfriends mom was a counter terrist agent for the CIA and interroragator. she has connections and is alreading doing her investigations on him and will report him the day after graduation.



Lostinthought61 said:


> Lawrence what is going through your head at the moment?


A lot of ups and downs. But ultimately looking for understanding. Trying to also look at the macro. and the lessons to be learned which are plentiful. I don't let a bad situation teach me nothing. This is what life is all about. Lot's of reading. praying. meditating. getting out into nature and hiking, mountainbiking. Been to the life coach a couple times already. Bought 3 books that I am reading on. Oh yea, and still trying to run a business of 50 employees.


----------



## Lawrence79

Yeswecan said:


> Please don't because I suspect your GF knows full well you will ride in for the rescue. You may want to take a step back and allow your GF to figure this one out on her own.
> 
> 
> Wanted to add one more thing....your GF went out there and looked to cut loose. Just one mans opinion. First few nights drinking until control was lost.



You are totally right. She KNOWS i will rescue her. I am trying so damn hard to leave it be. this is strangely the hardest of all. she f*cked up big time. and it's all her baggage. her sh*t that only SHE can work through. I DO realize that. Her drinking. poor choices. money mismangement. Infidelity. Playing victim/falling victim to prey (not street smart) I know. I get it. She has some MAJOR WORK to do. and ONLY SHE can. She has been making efforts though. Dealing with the life coach and desire to do the work as soon as she returns. We will see if she actually does it though.

Actions speak louder than words. I know.


----------



## ButtPunch

This thread is done

Be thankful you aren't married.

Move on with your life.

Rescue her at your own peril.

Biggest mistake young people make is
to ignore red flags in the name of love.


----------



## Yeswecan

Lawrence79 said:


> You are totally right. She KNOWS i will rescue her. I am trying so damn hard to leave it be. this is strangely the hardest of all. she f*cked up big time. and it's all her baggage. her sh*t that only SHE can work through. I DO realize that. Her drinking. poor choices. money mismangement. Infidelity. Playing victim/falling victim to prey (not street smart) I know. I get it. She has some MAJOR WORK to do. and ONLY SHE can. She has been making efforts though. Dealing with the life coach and desire to do the work as soon as she returns. We will see if she actually does it though.
> 
> Actions speak louder than words. I know.


And with this post I can sense you understand the gravity of the situation. Further, this will not just go away in a week or so. We are talking years of counseling. Years of questioning. Years of building trust. It will always lurk in your mind. Question is, do you want to deal with this on top of running a business with 50 employees? For me, no I would not. 4.5 years be damned. That's a fine how do you do.


----------



## Lawrence79

ButtPunch said:


> This thread is done
> 
> Be thankful you aren't married.
> 
> Move on with your life.
> 
> Rescue her at your own peril.
> 
> Biggest mistake young people make is
> to ignore red flags in the name of love.


Thank you, I will.

And yes, I know. Love man. . . . son of a [email protected]#$#$%*#($)%*!# %*@!!!! lol.


----------



## Yeswecan

Lawrence79 said:


> Thank you, I will.
> 
> And yes, I know. Love man. . . . son of a [email protected]#$#$%*#($)%*!# %*@!!!! lol.


Sir, it is a b!tch. I have been here like you. I moved on. Best thing I did....ever.


----------



## MyRevelation

Lawrence79 said:


> No, I haven't. But the girlfriends mom was a counter terrist agent for the CIA and interroragator. she has connections and is alreading doing her investigations on him and will report him the day after graduation.


Wait ... Wait ... Wait ...

On top of an admitted A with the OM in a proclaimed open M ... then you conveniently forgot to mention an alleged rape by an anonymous Asian dude ... that now may have been a consensual encounter ... all in the period of a few weeks, from someone you swear this is completely out of character and now we've got a "spook" in the family that will blow up OM at the end of next week.

Now throw in another couple of oddities ... like being a Buddhist CEO of a 50 employee company at 38.

Sorry, but you really need to think about how this reads.


----------



## Lawrence79

Yeswecan said:


> And with this post I can sense you understand the gravity of the situation. Further, this will not just go away in a week or so. We are talking years of counseling. Years of questioning. Years of building trust. It will always lurk in your mind. Question is, do you want to deal with this on top of running a business with 50 employees? For me, no I would not. 4.5 years be damned. That's a fine how do you do.


There are so many ways to look at this even though most wouldn't agree. we are such "physical creatures" in this world. and only deal with mass and things that are tangible. Looking at it strictly from this "logical" 3d realm. . . no I would not either per say.

But from a spiritual minded perspective and learning through experience for trasformation, evolution, growth, understanding I speculate "what the universe" is trying to teach me. Furthermore, the more I stop, turn and face things head on I seem to exponentially grow. There is something more in this for me I feel. again not necessarily continuing this relationship. But there is still some unfounded truths that this situation was put in my life for a reason.


----------



## Lawrence79

MyRevelation said:


> Wait ... Wait ... Wait ...
> 
> On top of an admitted A with the OM in a proclaimed open M ... then you conveniently forgot to mention an alleged rape by an anonymous Asian dude ... that now may have been a consensual encounter ... all in the period of a few weeks, from someone you swear this is completely out of character and now we've got a "spook" in the family that will blow up OM at the end of next week.
> 
> Now throw in another couple of oddities ... like being a Buddhist CEO of a 50 employee company at 38.
> 
> Sorry, but you really need to think about how this reads.


I . . . can understand. It's the truth. I can give you full names and numbers in a private message if you don't believe me. the company I own. my address. I am transparent. I didn't conveniently forget. it was an honest human mistake.

it's a family company. My father died 8 yrs ago. I took it over. here I am.

discount it if you must. I understand. I don't expect you to believe me as I am just some guy out here in the aether. I get it.

Respectfully


----------



## TDSC60

The most important lesson you can learn from this is that in today's society is that marriage is a joke.

I can almost forgive the so called assault if her story is nearly true. A drunken one night stand is one thing, but taking up with the teacher and having sex with him - no excuse for that - period.


----------



## drifting on

In my opinion Lawrence, and this is strictly my opinion, she is thinking with the rape you will stay. You stated she may have even wanted it before she was raped, no not wanting to be raped but instead putting herself in a bad position. I in no way condone raping a person, but she said she might have done it willingly. Meaning maybe she was flirty with someone who then assaulted her. If your life coach can tell you what she said, I would hope this coach can tell you. It seems off that she tell you third when you have such a connection. Or maybe you have a connection and hers has a little more static if you will. 

Once the rape happened she may have felt desired by her teacher. But then I come back to the willingly, and maybe she wanted to have sex with another and also give consent. Being young and naive as you say, she really doesn't have much to lose here. She can fall back on the rape and then claim victim mentality. I have seen many females say they were raped to protect their marriage. I'm not saying females aren't raped, but so many times I take the report and the husband is none the wiser. These are quite sick individuals who are very selfish to their very core. It just may be that your girlfriend is one of these. What is really odd is that she can suppress a rape but not an affair. Maybe this is why your life coach is telling you the affair is squarely on her, and not believing the RTS story. I can tell you from expierience that her reaction to the rape is off, the affair more confusing, and that she wanted to come home after having consensual sex and not after being raped. Furthermore she would be very distracted from any learning after just being raped and then starting a coding class. Her mind would be very scrambled at best, which then brings in the compartmentalization that she is able to do. 

You may say this is all out of character for her, but I would say this is someone who was willing to sex with another. I may get highly criticized for my opinion, but I see the rape as her knowing you will take her back. This is her ace in the hole, the playing you for a KISA and herself the damsel in distress. You can find out by calling the school immediately and notifying the dean. Demand that he be removed from her class or her switched to a different class. Watch how she reacts to that and you will have your answer. My instinct is saying she will be very angry you reported the teacher. The entire reason she said he is in an open marriage is to keep you from notifying anyone. Next call this teachers wife, let her know what is happening, and just in case she says they have an open marriage, ask if she participated. You can then call the school and report that the husband and wife are preying on students. 

You have said your girlfriend has been a mess for five days, why do you think that is? Because you haven't shown your KISA side to her and treated her as a victim. So now she is scared, and truthfully you need to scare her a lot more. Tell her you have taken her belongings to her parents, she is not to come to your residence. Tell her you reported the teacher to both his wife and school. Watch what she does. Best of luck to you, but after doing this I would go very dark.


----------



## SunCMars

Lawrence79 said:


> poetry. I love this. Makes me want to pick up writing again. great time for it, no doubt. You're right too. We are connected in ways that neither one of us have ever connected with another.


I wrote this because I see your connection, *your ESP.*

I have this too, but it is not failsafe, not accurate to a tee.

Now, in fairness, yours' may be one-sided.
You have it, she may not. May not see your thoughts so clear, as she is blinded.

And most people, of course, cannot see anything forthcoming, beyond their nose.

So, I made an assumption on her behalf.
On her upper half.
The curved-away bottom half, being already soiled.

I do know this much.
She fessed up without too much resistance.
Why? She knew what was in your head. Her eyes do also 'see' in your cranium.
She found 'not doubt', Nay, she saw her bottom half, seen.....known to be soiled.

Hence, she confessed, fell on the mercy of your soul.


----------



## wilson

Lawrence79 said:


> But the girlfriends mom was a counter terrist agent for the CIA and interroragator. she has connections and is alreading doing her investigations on him and will report him the day after graduation.


That's a bunch of nonsense. No background investigation is necessary . Don't wait to tell the school. Them them right now, this minute. They'll fire the guy and another teacher will step in. The students shouldn't have any interruption. Likely, the teacher has broken some sort of requirement that the school has about dating students. Your GF should get her tuition refunded at a minimum. This teacher has opened up the school to a sexual harassment lawsuit. As he is a position of authority and her grade is dependent on him, it can easily be argued that she felt pressured to have sex with him.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Culinary Institute of America?


----------



## drifting on

I forgot to add this Lawrence, but many rape victims move from the area in which the rape occurred. This is why her staying after the rape, but wanting to come home after an affair is very telling also. I'm just trying to give you insight to a different view.


----------



## SunCMars

And for men....
Proud, loving men..

There are two things that a man holds dear. Her love and her honor.

Yes, that honor she provides, symbolized by that warm thing he rides.
Her honor, that silken glove, clean and untouched by no other being while she, in his domain, resides.

That sight, that 'horror of horrors', occurs when a wife's [bottom to front], is soiled by another man. 
Oh, God, that is the beginning of the end for that dear man.


----------



## colingrant

I was you on three occasions. Previously I mentioned, once upon a time, I was a cheater. Never before did those words pain me as they do now after joining this site. But after my first and only cheating experience which resulted in the AP attempting suicide, that was it for me. Scared straight. That experience followed three committed relationships whereby I was the one being cheated on. My third experience was slightly similar to yours, although my girlfriend at the time (let's call her Carol) lived in the same city, Wash DC as I did. 

Carol's studying for the Bar Exam, while working as a staff clerk for a judge in the DC courthouse. We were pretty much always together. I take my work very seriously and recognized Carol to be as ambitious as I was. Recognizing the commitment level needed to be successful, I thought nothing of her asking for some space so that she can focus solely on studying for the bar while working full time. She said her best means of studying was at her office, where she sometimes stayed late and spent the night. I always support people into being successful even if it meant decreasing my presence in there life or whatever it took, I was willing to do it. 

So, I still didn't think much of it, however the change in her demeanor and her inaccessibility eventually led to my suspicions that she was cheating. I was devastated as I was a step away from asking her to marry me and we'd been together about 2.5-3 years at this point. We grew up similarly in family culture and were compatible. The relationship was over not because I couldn't trust her, which may or may not have been the case, but I simply couldn't and have never been able to accept the feeling of violation. Another man violated my space at the behest and acceptance of my girlfriend. I couldn't recover and it was over. We weren't married, so therapy, discussion, and all that stuff wasn't even a consideration. I wished her well, loved her parents, etc., but I closed that chapter quickly. 

Every situation is different however, so rarely do I suggest, do this or do that. I simply want to describe a scenario for you to take in and draw your on conclusions from.


----------



## Lawrence79

drifting on said:


> I forgot to add this Lawrence, but many rape victims move from the area in which the rape occurred. This is why her staying after the rape, but wanting to come home after an affair is very telling also. I'm just trying to give you insight to a different view.




she did move, like 20 blocks away to a safer place and environment.


----------



## Lawrence79

colingrant said:


> I was you on three occasions. Previously I mentioned, once upon a time, I was a cheater. Never before did those words pain me as they do now after joining this site. But after my first and only cheating experience which resulted in the AP attempting suicide, that was it for me. Scared straight. That experience followed three committed relationships whereby I was the one being cheated on. My third experience was slightly similar to yours, although my girlfriend at the time (let's call her Carol) lived in the same city, Wash DC as I did.
> 
> Carol's studying for the Bar Exam, while working as a staff clerk for a judge in the DC courthouse. We were pretty much always together. I take my work very seriously and recognized Carol to be as ambitious as I was. Recognizing the commitment level needed to be successful, I thought nothing of her asking for some space so that she can focus solely on studying for the bar while working full time. She said her best means of studying was at her office, where she sometimes stayed late and spent the night. I always support people into being successful even if it meant decreasing my presence in there life or whatever it took, I was willing to do it.
> 
> So, I still didn't think much of it, however the change in her demeanor and her inaccessibility eventually led to my suspicions that she was cheating. I was devastated as I was a step away from asking her to marry me and we'd been together about 2.5-3 years at this point. We grew up similarly in family culture and were compatible. The relationship was over not because I couldn't trust her, which may or may not have been the case, but I simply couldn't and have never been able to accept the feeling of violation. Another man violated my space at the behest and acceptance of my girlfriend. I couldn't recover and it was over. We weren't married, so therapy, discussion, and all that stuff wasn't even a consideration. I wished her well, loved her parents, etc., but I closed that chapter quickly.
> 
> Every situation is different however, so rarely do I suggest, do this or do that. I simply want to describe a scenario for you to take in and draw your on conclusions from.




Damn. yea. . . . that story definitely resonates. and I too don't know if I can ever get over the betrayal. *sigh*

thanks for sharing your story. truly. Definitely similar. One other thing, I was hurt real bad 8 yrs ago, so my current girl I have always never fully let her in. and she knew that. always immediately shot down marriage, and the thought of kids. So she never fully knew where I stood. I finally came around as my heart immediately opened up finally when I started sensing things were awry, and how much I truly loved her. . . and it was too late. I held my full heart for too long, she didn't fully know where we stood, and I sent her far away. . . the rest is history i guess. I hate the thought of starting over at the age of 38.


----------



## michzz

MyRevelation said:


> Wait ... Wait ... Wait ...
> 
> On top of an admitted A with the OM in a proclaimed open M ... then you conveniently forgot to mention an alleged rape by an anonymous Asian dude ... that now may have been a consensual encounter ... all in the period of a few weeks, from someone you swear this is completely out of character and now we've got a "spook" in the family that will blow up OM at the end of next week.
> 
> Now throw in another couple of oddities ... like being a Buddhist CEO of a 50 employee company at 38.
> 
> Sorry, but you really need to think about how this reads.


Darn it, you beat me to this.

I, at least, have something to do until Longmire starts up again on Netflicks.


----------



## MyRevelation

michzz said:


> Darn it, you beat me to this.
> 
> I, at least, have something to do until Longmire starts up again on Netflicks.


T/J coming ... big Longmire fan here too. I head this season Walt is going to take up with a transvestite, midget rodeo clown, until he finds out he/she is stripping at the Red Pony on weekends and giving happy endings to a group of transient Amish woodworking instructors, who got a free pass from the community.


----------



## Taxman

Lawrence
You said things like this happen for a reason. Here is the reason, some higher power is telling you that this relationship is NOT for you. Will you ever trust her again? This will forever be a bone in your throat. Do yourself a favour, never take her back.

You say she is naive? No excuse. She gave into a superior, what is to stop her when she is in the working world and a Harvey Weinstein type figures out she is there for the taking. This will become a repeating pattern. Best to get out now.


----------



## colingrant

Lawrence79 said:


> Damn. yea. . . . that story definitely resonates. and I too don't know if I can ever get over the betrayal. *sigh*
> 
> thanks for sharing your story. truly. Definitely similar. One other thing, I was hurt real bad 8 yrs ago, so my current girl I have always never fully let her in. and she knew that. always immediately shot down marriage, and the thought of kids. So she never fully knew where I stood. I finally came around as my heart immediately opened up finally when I started sensing things were awry, and how much I truly loved her. . . and it was too late. I held my full heart for too long, she didn't fully know where we stood, and I sent her far away. . . the rest is history i guess. I hate the thought of starting over at the age of 38.



Our experiences are more similar than originally thought. I didn't add the fact that I was told by a relative of mine Carol had befriended, that Carol's straying may have had a little or lot to do with me not having asked to marry her. I was cheated on a couple of times and in fact, was trying to not see her exclusively when we first began dating, as I was just starting to rebuild my confidence after having been cheated on, but Carol was assertive with me and I went along, even though I needed some space. I went all in and was faithful, but after 2 years or so, she wanted to get married. I wasn't ready so, according to others, that may have initiated her activity. Funny thing is, we probably would have married, but her decision killed it. Perhaps it's my ego, I don't know, but going back to the place another guy had visited obliterates any chance of advancing beyond that. What's mine is mine and only mine is how I look at it. When shared with others, it then belongs to others, not me.


----------



## TDSC60

When something you hold dear because it is exclusive to you is stolen or worse, given away freely and is used by another you never look at it the same again. It is no longer yours and yours alone. Some would say they really do not want it back in that condition. The feeling of being special is gone. The desire is gone. The need is gone. The attachment is gone. Can you really live with a constant reminder of what was given away without you knowledge?


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## bandit.45

Lawrence79 said:


> No, it wasn't all intentional. I assure you. she did not go there with this intention. again, I have 4.5 yrs of data on this girl. all of this is completely out of every radar and character of her. Which is why it doesn't fully add up.


No Lawrence....this is in perfect character. She's a party girl. I would bet you don't know a quarter of what she has been up to for the last four years. 




> The assault/rape was waaaaaaay before anything with the teacher. She told me a couple days later. she was afraid to tell me cause she felt so much shame and guilt and worthlessness. She went out there by herself as an adult, and immediately made a horrible mistake, putting herself in a bad situation, and a bad situation happened. she herself admitted she might have done it willingly too. she didn't remember literally anything. or parts and pieces rather. she confided in her best friend, then her (our life coach) then she told be and yes balled her eyes eyes and was pretty tramatized. But she never had time to even get therapy for this. school started. she had to immediately supress it. this did some psychological damage to her in my view. she was internally suffering. She felt immense guilt and shame.


Yeah...so she dealt with it by going out and starting a weeks-long ****fest with her instructor. 

Lawrence...come on man...



> But yes, with the instructor she didn't feel that. again he had her pegged. could smell her vulnerability a mile away. and after 3 weeks of working on her, being nice to her, bending an ear, blah blah. . .perfect storm. and she made some stupid atrocious decisions. that she will forever have to live with.


You need to stop minimizing what she did and stop protecting her. She's making a fool out of you my friend.


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## doconiram

michzz said:


> Darn it, you beat me to this.
> 
> I, at least, have something to do until Longmire starts up again on Netflicks.


I've been looking for a new Netflix show. Will give Longmire a shot, looks decent.


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## Yeswecan

Lawrence79 said:


> I hate the thought of starting over at the age of 38.


Sir, you appear very stable, solid, full of morals, own business and your 38. I see no issue here. Many others will see it to. You will move past this and onto greater things.


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## wilson

Yeswecan said:


> Sir, you appear very stable, solid, full of morals, own business and your 38. I see no issue here. Many others will see it to. You will move past this and onto greater things.


Totally agree! Don't hold on to the anchor as it's dragging you down because you're worried you'll have to buy a new anchor. I wish I had a time machine so I could tell my 38-year-old self to take a different path.


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