# How to get this guy away from my wife???



## samdew9

I've been reading on here a lot lately and it just floored me when I read the signs of a cheating spouse. My wife exhibits almost all of them. I have had my suspicions in the past and have even asked her. She says "I would never do that". But yet I still have that gut feeling. So flashback to January. She tells me that she is thinking that she wants a divorce. Well long story short, we worked it out. Or so I thought. We moved to a new area last Sept. and she transferred in her job (large dept store chain) to a city about 30 minutes from here. And she started talking about this guy Chris that she worked with about he was the only competent person in her dept. Then he got moved to a different dept. and she was not happy. Well, I thought nothing of it until I remembered her facebook password (she has since changed it and I no longer can see that) one day and saw discussions how she would badmouth me to him and then there was some light sexual talk. So without letting her know that I was on her facebook, I asked her about her having an affair. She denied it. But said that she had guy friends at work. I asked about sexual discussions which she admitted to. Well this guy Chris kept popping up. She started liking the same stuff and reading the books he suggested to her. I told her that I didn't want her to have anything to do with him but she would always say that he is just a friend that she only briefly talks to on the rare occasion that he walks by her dept. So I said "if that's all, then why can't you drop him to make me happy and give me piece of mind"? She says, "because you're forcing me" Which I wasn't, I told her that it just made me very uncomfortable. Well things got worse when I stopped into her workplace to see her one day and this Chris kept starring at us. Then while I was waiting for one of our kids to get out of the bathroom Chris walked by me and had this smug look on his face. I just wanted to beat him to a pulp! So I asked her again to drop him. She got really mad this time. Things are better again, but I have this gut feeling that she's hiding something and may just be "putting on the dog" until she can figure out a way to leave. So I have been going crazy trying to figure out how to get him out of the picture. I want to confront him, but that will make the wife even more ticked. So I thought about making an anonymous email to the large dept stores home office and try to get him fired, but it just seems evil. My wife and I are both christians...well until he came along. Now she doesn't want anything to do with church. It just seems like if I can get him gone, then everything would be better.


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## SomedayDig

Here's a simple question to ask her: Is Chris *ever* going to be friends with you, me and OUR marriage?

See...she's already started down the path with the facebook crap and being defensive about him at work. I would almost guarantee they take breaks together - cuz, even being in different departments you can still "hang out".

To get him away from your wife is gonna be a challenge. If you're up for it, it's as simple as putting the hammer down on your wife. Tell her it is unacceptable for her to have him as a friend merely due to the facebook chats. She puts you down to him and boy oh, boy I bet that makes him feel really chipper.

Don't use violence with the guy. That'll just serve to put you behind bars. It ain't worth it.

But...does he have a wife? A girlfriend? Cuz that would be your ammo against the POS.


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## Ovid

The problem is only patially Chris. You're wife is the real issue here. She made the vows and she is the one crossing the line. You need to put a VAR in her car, keylogger on the computer and spyware on her phone.

Stop confronting so she doesn't take it further underground. Use this time to get your ducks in a row, and do you investigating.

If you do get proof you will need to end it quick by exposing to family and filing for divorce. You do not need to complete a divorce, but you do need to prove you're serious.

Until then you should start working out. Upgrade your clothes and change your hair style. Start making drastic changes. Make her wonder what is going on with you.


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## PBear

Sorry, but your problems start and end in your own house. Chase off this guy, and the next one will pop up shortly, as long as your wife is open to attention from other men. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## weightlifter

VARS mentioned cue Weightlifter. Thats me. Resident wife buster.

Buy 2 sony ICDPX312 voice activated recorders. Best Buy sells them for like 50 bucks. DO NOT BUY THE cheapies. USE LITHIUM batteries. We have examples of 25 hour recordings using them on these sony recorders.

Go to a different Walmart and buy heavy duty velcro.

Use the velcro to attach the var under her seat. DO IT WELL and TURN OFF THE DAMN BEEP that it does. Its on one of the menus or even better cut the wires to the speaker. SECURE IT WELL!!!!!!

Put the second in whatever room she uses to talk in when you are not around.

Usual warning. If you hear Chris or another man get in her car STOP Listening and have a trusted friend tell you what went on. Knowing she is a cheat will kill you. Hearing her moan while Chris is inside her will murder you to your very soul!!!!!! You are not strong enough to hear that. Dont try it. I know what I am talking about in this.

Play dumb husband for a bit. Dont drive her further underground! NO MORE CONFRONTS!! You FAILED the first one. Next one is armageddon not half assed.

Steel yourself for the ugly possibility of a full PA. Odds are 49.999% and rising.

DO THIS NOW!!!!!! Not in 1 hour. TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE. There is still a shot it is not physical tho that deceases by the minute!

If you need clean up the recordings get Audacity. Its free from the internet. I have used it on var work for others here to remove things like engine noise.

Oh what state are you in so we know how much proof you need etc.

Ages?

Kids?

Are you still getting laid?

Oh and I have written confront scripts for others here. I know 2 were used and were successful in breaking the wife to confess.


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## TDSC60

Sorry to say this but Chris is not the problem. If your wife is in the "cheating" mind set she will find another man even if Chris is out of the picture. Do not think that things will go back to normal if you can just get Chris out of the picture - that will not happen.

You need to find out why she feels so strongly about Chris. You need to watch facebook, texts, get a VAR for her car. It does appear she is having an affair. 

Don't accuse or ask her every time you uncover one suspect post or text. Do not tell her how you know anything. If you want the truth, then you have to be more of a detective.

Prepare yourself. Do not be surprised when you find that this goes deeper that you thought possible.


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## weightlifter

Oh and edit out her place of work. Just say "large store."


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## Cubby

Nothing will be solved by beating the crap out of Chris or getting him fired. Your wife is the issue. First, take the advice you've been given about gathering evidence and don't confront your wife right away. Make sure you have enough to thoroughly understand exactly what's going on between wife and Chris. Stay calm, cool and composed. When you get more evidence, come back here for more advice and share what you've found so the folks here can proceed accordingly with advice. Good luck!


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## workindad

I absolutely agree with using a VAR to get more information. Low tech and easy to use. Also if they hop in her car during break time at work you should get some good recordings. 

Keep in mind your wife is a bigger problem than Chris. I am not saying that he is blameless but she is an adult and responsible for her actions. 

Avoid violence it will not achieve what you want. You behind bars and your wife left to console poor Chris. Not a pleasant outcome. 

Get some more evidence. Then decide on a strategy. Get moe information on Chris also.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem

samdew9 said:


> So I asked her again to drop him. She got really mad this time. Things are better again, but I have this gut feeling that she's hiding something and may just be "putting on the dog" until she can figure out a way to leave. So I have been going crazy trying to figure out how to get him out of the picture. *I want to confront him, but that will make the wife even more ticked*. So I thought about making an anonymous email to the walmart home office and try to get him fired, but it just seems evil. My wife and I are both christians...well until he came along. *Now she doesn't want anything to do with church*. It just seems like if I can get him gone, then everything would be better.


Seems you have answered your own question. 

Now, you can confront him if you want to....just be careful. If you do it, there is a risk that it will get physical, and you will just end up getting arrested, which will make him the winner. So I strongly advise you not to.

Also, as others here have said, the real problem is your WW. You see, the more you try to keep him away, the more she will want him. She is deep in the affair fog now. 

You have to let her go. It looks like she's choosing him. You see, she's in the fog of affair land, everything is lollipops and unicorns. You need to show HER the consequences of betrayal. Tell HER to move out. You have to be willing to lose her to keep her.

Expose her affair to friends and family. If the OM is married or has a girl friend, then expose the affair to the Other Man's Wife (OMW) or Other Man's Girl Friend (OMGF). This is one of the main tools in killing an affair. 

*EXPOSE EXPOSE EXPOSE*


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## Jasel

You need to focus on your wife, not the other guy.


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## Ovid

lordmayhem said:


> Seems you have answered your own question.
> 
> Now, you can confront him if you want to....just be careful. If you do it, there is a risk that it will get physical, and you will just end up getting arrested, which will make him the winner. So I strongly advise you not to.
> 
> Also, as others here have said, the real problem is your WW. You see, the more you try to keep him away, the more she will want him. She is deep in the affair fog now.
> 
> You have to let her go. It looks like she's choosing him. You see, she's in the fog of affair land, everything is lollipops and unicorns. You need to show HER the consequences of betrayal. Tell HER to move out. You have to be willing to lose her to keep her.
> 
> Expose her affair to friends and family. If the OM is married or has a girl friend, then expose the affair to the Other Man's Wife (OMW) or Other Man's Girl Friend (OMGF). This is one of the main tools in killing an affair.
> 
> *EXPOSE EXPOSE EXPOSE*


:iagree:

Only thing to add is Affair fog is made out of cotton candy


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## barbados

weightlifter said:


> VARS mentioned cue Weightlifter. Thats me. Resident wife buster.
> 
> Buy 2 sony ICDPX312 voice activated recorders. Best Buy sells them for like 50 bucks. DO NOT BUY THE cheapies. USE LITHIUM batteries. We have examples of 25 hour recordings using them on these sony recorders.
> 
> Go to a different Walmart and buy heavy duty velcro.
> 
> Use the velcro to attach the var under her seat. DO IT WELL and TURN OFF THE DAMN BEEP that it does. Its on one of the menus or even better cut the wires to the speaker. SECURE IT WELL!!!!!!
> 
> Put the second in whatever room she uses to talk in when you are not around.
> 
> Usual warning. If you hear Chris or another man get in her car STOP Listening and have a trusted friend tell you what went on. Knowing she is a cheat will kill you. Hearing her moan while Chris is inside her will murder you to your very soul!!!!!! You are not strong enough to hear that. Dont try it. I know what I am talking about in this.
> 
> Play dumb husband for a bit. Dont drive her further underground! NO MORE CONFRONTS!! You FAILED the first one. Next one is armageddon not half assed.
> 
> Steel yourself for the ugly possibility of a full PA. Odds are 49.999% and rising.
> 
> DO THIS NOW!!!!!! Not in 1 hour. TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE. There is still a shot it is not physical tho that deceases by the minute!
> 
> If you need clean up the recordings get Audacity. Its free from the internet. I have used it on var work for others here to remove things like engine noise.
> 
> Oh what state are you in so we know how much proof you need etc.
> 
> Ages?
> 
> Kids?
> 
> Are you still getting laid?
> 
> Oh and I have written confront scripts for others here. I know 2 were used and were successful in breaking the wife to confess.


:iagree:

You need to listen to weightlifter and do what he suggests ASAP !!


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## akashNil

He is just her current muse. Follow what *weightlifter *has told.But either she already has other *similar *friends, or she will get them.

You also need to address the basic issue - Why is she doing this?


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## cj9947

Follow your gut and do the 180 on her.


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## Thor

weightlifter said:


> even better cut the wires to the speaker.


I am not familiar with this specific VAR. In general it should do no damage at all to the electronics to cut the wires. It may be difficult to open up the VAR to get to the wires. (My degree is electrical engineering and I've been designing, modding, and messing with audio electronics for over 40 years. I am comfortable saying the recorder function should continue to work even with the speaker wires cut).

In addition, some recorders have an earplug or headphone jack which has a switch built into the jack to mute the speaker when earplug/headphones are plugged in. So if you cannot get inside the VAR to cut speaker wires you could find the cheapest earphone/headphone/earbuds you have in a junk drawer in your house and cut the wires just past the plug. Then plug it in to the VAR. Then see if the speaker is muted. Secure the plug into the VAR (maybe duct tape or even crazy glue).

As far as scaring the other guy away, it would be very satisfying to threaten him or have several of your large buddies suggest he find another woman. But it will at this point be counterproductive in finding out what she is up to and it unfortunately in today's society makes you the criminal instead of the cheaters. So stay away from him until/unless you get absolute confirmation of an improper relationship.


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## weightlifter

Thor said:


> I am not familiar with this specific VAR. In general it should do no damage at all to the electronics to cut the wires. It may be difficult to open up the VAR to get to the wires. (My degree is electrical engineering and I've been designing, modding, and messing with audio electronics for over 40 years. I am comfortable saying the recorder function should continue to work even with the speaker wires cut).
> 
> In addition, some recorders have an earplug or headphone jack which has a switch built into the jack to mute the speaker when earplug/headphones are plugged in. So if you cannot get inside the VAR to cut speaker wires you could find the cheapest earphone/headphone/earbuds you have in a junk drawer in your house and cut the wires just past the plug. Then plug it in to the VAR. Then see if the speaker is muted. Secure the plug into the VAR (maybe duct tape or even crazy glue).
> 
> As far as scaring the other guy away, it would be very satisfying to threaten him or have several of your large buddies suggest he find another woman. But it will at this point be counterproductive in finding out what she is up to and it unfortunately in today's society makes you the criminal instead of the cheaters. So stay away from him until/unless you get absolute confirmation of an improper relationship.


RDMU did the cut wire thing and he is not an electrical engineer. However. I DO like your idea about cheapie earphones then cut em off.

One of those "oh shjt moments" If Chris is smirking at you he likely at a minimum is at the sexting stage and has pics of her. YOU NEED TO MOVE ON THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry. I call em as I see em.

Anyway. With 15 or so wives busted under my belt. I kinda know this part. Need help and dont want something public? PM me. I have done var work for others including clean up. I ask nothing in return. Its my "pay it forward."

repeat no more confrontations. Keep coming here with your intel. I have written 2 confrontations that worked and broke the wife into full confession.

Oh and Chris may well be a friend player. Read my bottom link or google the words How to seduce a married woman. It is neither hard nor complicated.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

Maybe file a complaint with the HR department where she works.

If they'e from different departments and spending allot of "work" time together, they'e not getting work done when they're doing this.

They may not care if she's cheating on you but if they're both cheating the time clock when together, I bet they'll get talked to.


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## weightlifter

He needs to get his intel first.

It may be him going D if this goes as bad as I think it could.

OP still need
state? for fault burden info
ages of you two
do you have kids??


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## samdew9

weightlifter said:


> VARS mentioned cue Weightlifter. Thats me. Resident wife buster.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh what state are you in so we know how much proof you need etc.
> 
> Ages?
> 
> Kids?
> 
> Are you still getting laid?
> 
> Oh and I have written confront scripts for others here. I know 2 were used and were successful in breaking the wife to confess.


I'm in Iowa. We have 5 kids. Have gone from 3x sometimes more per week to once a week with the longest being a 2 week drought.


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## FormerSelf

I just read about this service in the paper today:
Ellington Digital Forensics


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## Rookie4

Dude, confronting the guy is a waste of time, because as soon as you get rid of him, another one will show up. Your wife has no morals, accept it and deal with it. She is causing the cheating not some doofus she works with.


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## FormerSelf

Rookie4 said:


> Dude, confronting the guy is a waste of time, because as soon as you get rid of him, another one will show up. Your wife has no morals, accept it and deal with it. She is causing the cheating not some doofus she works with.


I agree...the dude might as well take a number if she is throwing out signals to guys : I'm available. You need to start planning while she is in the fog...speak to a lawyer...draw up papers for legal separation or divorce...but don't let her string you along like this. She wants to play the game...so get off the board...let her pick up the pieces. Just take any evidence you have or any future evidence and use it for leverage to set up a boundary that her behavior shall not pass. Take control man...and stop bringing this to her...she wants to make the leap, she just can't yet...so give her the freedom to do what she wants...except you won't be there for her when she wants to cake-eat like this.


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## jnj express

Her so called lover has no bearing on this--besides being a lowlife PUA, looking to get your wife to spread her legs

You took vows with your wife---she is who your "beef" is with

Time to stop *****footing around---you lay down the law---in this case---SHE LEAVES HER JOB, AND GOES NC WITH HER LOVER

Do not give her a choice, do not argue with her---do not let her have an answer to what you say----make your demands, give her your terms, and put her on a tight timeline---to do what is needed to save the mge----tell her there is one consequence to her fighting you on this---that is D

You can use the legit. argument, you are attempting to save the mge---and to preserve a good proper home life for the kids---you will find out one way or the other---where your wife is at with all of this---remember--no arguments---just plain, she does what is needed to preserve the mge, or THERE IS NO MGE


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## samdew9

The thing is that I don't want a divorce at all. I will do anything to prevent it. I was a jerk to my wife for the first 12-13 years and finally saw the light. Not that her behavior was any better, but I still took full responsibility for it. She even admits that I have done nothing wrong. That it's her. She says that she feels worthless and empty inside. I have been trying to do nothing but love her and build her up since I confronted her about chris. We decided to start over and forgive and forget the past. But it seems that she has not done that. For me divorce would be the worst thing ever. I grew up the child in 2 divorces. I hate divorce with a passion. I love her more than I ever have. I even told her that I would forgive her for anything, even an affair. She just looks at me with a funny look. Not only would I be losing a woman that I have chosen to love, but I would lose out on part of my children's lives and it would hurt them greatly. I would also lose my job as I am now a minister. Which is why we moved here. This is my fault that I'm in this situation. I just want to fix it. Everything that she says is a contradiction. It drives me nuts!!! She also will not wear her ring because she says that it scratches her. Even though she once said that nothing would stop her from wearing it. I just feel so hopeless.


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## LostViking

FormerSelf said:


> I agree...the dude might as well take a number if she is throwing out signals to guys : I'm available. You need to start planning while she is in the fog...speak to a lawyer...draw up papers for legal separation or divorce...but don't let her string you along like this. She wants to play the game...so get off the board...let her pick up the pieces. Just take any evidence you have or any future evidence and use it for leverage to set up a boundary that her behavior shall not pass. Take control man...and stop bringing this to her...she wants to make the leap, she just can't yet...so give her the freedom to do what she wants...except you won't be there for her when she wants to cake-eat like this.


I totally agree. The problem is not the OM. The problem is the wife. She is an entitled little floozie. 

Trolling for hookups at CHURCH? Are you kidding me? Please.


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## LostViking

samdew9 said:


> The thing is that I don't want a divorce at all. I will do anything to prevent it. I was a jerk to my wife for the first 12-13 years and finally saw the light. Not that her behavior was any better, but I still took full responsibility for it. She even admits that I have done nothing wrong. That it's her. She says that she feels worthless and empty inside. I have been trying to do nothing but love her and build her up since I confronted her about chris. We decided to start over and forgive and forget the past. But it seems that she has not done that. For me divorce would be the worst thing ever. I grew up the child in 2 divorces. I hate divorce with a passion. I love her more than I ever have. I even told her that I would forgive her for anything, even an affair. She just looks at me with a funny look. Not only would I be losing a woman that I have chosen to love, but I would lose out on part of my children's lives and it would hurt them greatly. I would also lose my job as I am now a minister. Which is why we moved here. This is my fault that I'm in this situation. I just want to fix it. Everything that she says is a contradiction. It drives me nuts!!! She also will not wear her ring because she says that it scratches her. Even though she once said that nothing would stop her from wearing it. I just feel so hopeless.


Her confusion is the red flag indicating that she is now in a full-blown affair with this guy. 

And he smirks in your face...

I though the Bible commands that you expose the wolves in your flock. Announce what your wife is doing to the congregation. 

See how Little Ms Christian likes that.


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## FormerSelf

samdew9 said:


> The thing is that I don't want a divorce at all. I will do anything to prevent it. I was a jerk to my wife for the first 12-13 years and finally saw the light. Not that her behavior was any better, but I still took full responsibility for it. She even admits that I have done nothing wrong. That it's her. She says that she feels worthless and empty inside. I have been trying to do nothing but love her and build her up since I confronted her about chris. We decided to start over and forgive and forget the past. But it seems that she has not done that. For me divorce would be the worst thing ever. I grew up the child in 2 divorces. I hate divorce with a passion. I love her more than I ever have. I even told her that I would forgive her for anything, even an affair. She just looks at me with a funny look. Not only would I be losing a woman that I have chosen to love, but I would lose out on part of my children's lives and it would hurt them greatly. I would also lose my job as I am now a minister. Which is why we moved here. This is my fault that I'm in this situation. I just want to fix it. Everything that she says is a contradiction. It drives me nuts!!! She also will not wear her ring because she says that it scratches her. Even though she once said that nothing would stop her from wearing it. I just feel so hopeless.


i could step into a time machine two three years ago and know that everything you have said...I HAVE SAID too! I am a Christian and is was everything against my values to divorce...even as we are in our two final moths...I can say I did not want this...but I am quickly learning that it is not a marriage if one does all the work...and the other does nothing and breaks her vows. Do what you must do to honor your vow...but YOU AREN'T HELPING HER BY ENABLING HER...being the guy who wipes her bruisies...takes her back without any set boundaries. Sure...LOVE is unconditional...just as God loves us...but even He sets boundaries. I know...i did the same damn thing!!! had a wife with past issues...I was understanding and was quick to forgive..and made sure she was safe and happy...but all it does is feed the monster. Monsters get loose because they FEEL NO CONSEQUENCES cos you are wiping away, keeping her in a state of immaturity and entitlement. Do not confuse enabling with love. You are not showing her love by this...you are trying to avoid confrontation...and that is your issue...and that needs to stop. Your wife has an issue too...and that is cheating on you. And that has to stop. I know what I speak of...'cos I did it all wrong and reaped the consequences of my wife cheating on me...treating me poorly...and I would rather keep her than face the unfamiliarity of being alone and rejected. BAD IDEA.


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## LostViking

FormerSelf said:


> i could step into a time machine two three years ago and know that everything you have said...I HAVE SAID too! I am a Christian and is was everything against my values to divorce...even as we are in our two final moths...I can say I did not want this...but I am quickly learning that it is not a marriage if one does all the work...and the other does nothing and breaks her vows. Do what you must do to honor your vow...but YOU AREN'T HELPING HER BY ENABLING HER...being the guy who wipes her bruisies...takes her back without any set boundaries. Sure...LOVE is unconditional...just as God loves us...but even He sets boundaries. I know...i did the same damn thing!!! had a wife with past issues...I was understanding and was quick to forgive..and made sure she was safe and happy...but all it does is feed the monster. Monsters get loose because they FEEL NO CONSEQUENCES cos you are wiping away, keeping her in a state of immaturity and entitlement. Do not confuse enabling with love. You are not showing her love by this...you are trying to avoid confrontation...and that is your issue...and that needs to stop. Your wife has an issue too...and that is cheating on you. And that has to stop. I know what I speak of...'cos I did it all wrong and reaped the consequences of my wife cheating on me...treating me poorly...and I would rather keep her than face the unfamiliarity of being alone and rejected. BAD IDEA.


This post should be framed and hung on a wall.


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## treyvion

Thor said:


> I am not familiar with this specific VAR. In general it should do no damage at all to the electronics to cut the wires. It may be difficult to open up the VAR to get to the wires. (My degree is electrical engineering and I've been designing, modding, and messing with audio electronics for over 40 years. I am comfortable saying the recorder function should continue to work even with the speaker wires cut).
> 
> In addition, some recorders have an earplug or headphone jack which has a switch built into the jack to mute the speaker when earplug/headphones are plugged in. So if you cannot get inside the VAR to cut speaker wires you could find the cheapest earphone/headphone/earbuds you have in a junk drawer in your house and cut the wires just past the plug. Then plug it in to the VAR. Then see if the speaker is muted. Secure the plug into the VAR (maybe duct tape or even crazy glue).
> 
> As far as scaring the other guy away, it would be very satisfying to threaten him or have several of your large buddies suggest he find another woman. But it will at this point be counterproductive in finding out what she is up to and it unfortunately in today's society makes you the criminal instead of the cheaters. So stay away from him until/unless you get absolute confirmation of an improper relationship.


It is healthy for your psyche to be able to run the OM/OW off...


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## treyvion

Rookie4 said:


> Dude, confronting the guy is a waste of time, because as soon as you get rid of him, another one will show up. Your wife has no morals, accept it and deal with it. She is causing the cheating not some doofus she works with.


This is a reality that also must be dealt with in these situations. If you can run the other guy off without putting yourself behind bars or in a grave, it's a mentally healthy thing to do.

Sometimes you HAVE to do something, because of the social implications of having been a cuckhold. There's a much larger stigma for a man to face it than a woman.


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## Remains

SamD, the thing is, you don't have to divorce!

But if you don't want D, and you want a good marriage, you have only one option. You HAVE to follow the advice here to break up the affair AND bring consequences. Otherwise your only road is a miserable marriage with a cheating selfish wife, or divorce. 

Please, listen and think. 

Children respond to consequences to actions. They grow into decent human beings by having that firm but fair upbringing. They NEED and WANT boundaries.

Adults are no different. Especially when an adult has not had good morals built into their childhood so they become second nature and are intrinsic to their very being. If an adult sees no consequences or acts in a selfish way, the only thing that helps them is to FEEL the consequences of those actions. You must help her by making her FEEL those consequences.

If you are to help her become a better human being, you cannot tell her and plead with her and ask her. Would you ask your teenage child to please stop stealing from the old lady next door? Or would you come down hard? This is serious stuff. This is not an issue of washing dishes badly or always leaving her particular mess for you to tidy up. This is BIG. You cannot just keep asking and eventually she will get it.....well, you could, but then do you really want to have to keep asking her not to lie and deceive you and to please not fu*k another man? And eventually she will get it? I assume your answer is no. 

I think one of the first things you have to do is tell her that you take that statement back! The one where you love her so much you would even forgive an affair. Let her know you did not mean it, that all you were doing was expressing how much you love her and what you would do for her....for a woman you dedicate your life to AND EXPECT THE SAME IN RETURN. You would live your life as an EQUAL to her....NOT, I repeat NOT, as her doormat. Make sure she gets this. And then follow advice on spying and snooping to find out the reality of what you are dealing with. She sure as hell will NEVER give you the full story so you better be good at finding out on your own.

Hard consequences fast is the best way to save a marriage and stop the cheating behaviour. 

Follow the advice here. That is the ONLY way you have a chance to save your marriage...if indeed it is saveable.


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## TRy

samdew9 said:


> The thing is that I don't want a divorce at all. I will do anything to prevent it. I was a jerk to my wife for the first 12-13 years and finally saw the light. Not that her behavior was any better, but I still took full responsibility for it.





samdew9 said:


> I hate divorce with a passion. I love her more than I ever have. I even told her that I would forgive her for anything, even an affair.


 By telling your wife the above, you have just told her that she can cheat with Chris and there will be no consequences. Part of the cheaters script includes getting the spouse to accept blame for the cheating which she has already got you to take responsibility for. Unless you change your tune, unless she has already, she will now be entering a full blown affair with Chris that will lead to the end of your marraige no matter what you want. Your wife threatened divorce and this has paralyzed you from doing the right things to defend your marraige. What you do not realize is that she cannot respect a man that will stand by and allow her to cheat, and a woman cannot love someone that she does not respect. Your efforts to hang on to the marraige no matter what, will in fact almost guarantee its end. Unless you man up and start to take a stand, your marriage is now defenseless before the other man's attack.

To be able to have a marriage worth saving, you need to be willing to end the marriage, and approch dealing with your wife accordingly. You must discuss reasonable boundaries and be willing to end the marriage if she crosses these boundaries. She must believe that no matter how much that you love her, you will end the marriage and mean it if she disrespects you and your marraige by crossing these boundaries. This list should include full transparency that needs to include full access to all accounts and passwords without complaint. Other than in the bathroom, there is no privacy between spouses in a health marriage. Only cheaters need privacy and secrets.


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## Remains

I will reiterate a point made by TRy, and a point I should have made in my post, a woman will not respect you if you stand by and let her cheat.

You telling your woman that you would forgive her cheating does not tell her how much you love her. It tells her how little you value her. I know how you meant it, but how it comes across is that you don't value yourself or the relationship. That you would not be prepared to fight for her. If you don't value yourself, she certainly won't. If you done value the relationship, what is there left? 

She doesn't want a man who is weak. Who would accept bad behaviour and not stick up for her! 

Imagine how you would feel if your wife said she would happily share you with another? 

Really imagine that.

Do you feel more valued or less?


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## weightlifter

OK Sam here is your plan. 

1) NO MORE CONFRONTS!!!!! You FAILED confront 1. You need to absolutely NAIL confront 2. I ***CAN*** help you here. I have written 2 confrontation lists that worked. One worked in less than a minute and this was a second confront.
2) YOU NEED to play clueless husband. DONT ask her about Chris. I know it is absolutely murdering you to your core. I get it. This is going to be the hardest time of your life. I am willing to help you. I am damn good at these sleuthing threads just like Machiavelli is good with attraction information.
3) Do the VAR thing. I gave you exact explicit instructions. EXECUTE THEM! DO THIS NOW!
4) Check cell bill for repeated numbers.
5) Please indicate phone model and carrier. Is it locked? Data recovery can be done on some phones.
6) If she has password protected the computer konusb will get you in.
7) You need to get a keylogger on the computer ASAP. Web watcher has been used successfully by others here. You will need time to properly install and disable your virus protection to allow webwatcher. DO THIS TOMORROW WHEN SHE IS NOT THERE!
8) Your confrontation style makes you appear weak. Never tell her you will forgive anything. Yes I know it is counter-intuaive. Mach is better at explaining it than I other than you are basically giving her permission and you appear weak especially compared to Chris. Let me guess. Chris is younger and/or better looking? He is orgasms and cunnilingus, you are hum drum and crying children. DONT compete there. NO MAN ON EARTH can compete under those circumstances.
9) NEVER EVER EVER reveal your electronic sources. IE if you find out she fvcked him in her car because of a var you say. "I know you fvcked Chris in the back parking lot in your car on June 1, 2013 around 1PM. You WERE SEEN!" You NEVER mention the var. If you get emails after getting her password "You left your email up and I found this"
10) After failing above is a PI. Rather pricy.

Final repeat warning. If you hear him get into her car on the VAR stop listening. YOU ARE NOT strong enough to hear another man inside your woman. It will multiply your pain by 10! Have a trusted friend listen and give you a heads up or transcript. I have done it for 3 men so far if you know noone.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

samdew9 said:


> The thing is that I don't want a divorce at all. I will do anything to prevent it. I was a jerk to my wife for the first 12-13 years and finally saw the light. Not that her behavior was any better, but I still took full responsibility for it. She even admits that I have done nothing wrong. That it's her. She says that she feels worthless *and empty inside*. I have been trying to do nothing but love her and build her up since I confronted her about chris. We decided to start over and forgive and forget the past. But it seems that she has not done that. For me divorce would be the worst thing ever. I grew up the child in 2 divorces. I hate divorce with a passion. I love her more than I ever have. I even told her that I would forgive her for anything, even an affair. She just looks at me with a funny look. Not only would I be losing a woman that I have chosen to love, but I would lose out on part of my children's lives and it would hurt them greatly. I would also lose my job as I am now a minister. Which is why we moved here. This is my fault that I'm in this situation. I just want to fix it. Everything that she says is a contradiction. It drives me nuts!!! She also will not wear her ring because she says that it scratches her. Even though she once said that nothing would stop her from wearing it. I just feel so hopeless.


Not for long...

You're not going to nice her back into your arms. And begging won't do anything but make you look less attractive to her.

I would want to know what the extent of her relationship is with the OM. VAR her car and anywhere in your home where she's likely to talk on her phone. She works at a department store, so have a friend watch her and his cars during their longest break of the day. If they're doing anything physical(hugging, petting, kissing, or sex) it'll probably be then and there.

I would call the stores HR department to find out what their policy is on two employees conducting and affair during work hour, and or on work property. Try to make it tougher for them to screw around while at work.


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## Rookie4

samdew9 said:


> The thing is that I don't want a divorce at all. I will do anything to prevent it. I was a jerk to my wife for the first 12-13 years and finally saw the light. Not that her behavior was any better, but I still took full responsibility for it. She even admits that I have done nothing wrong. That it's her. She says that she feels worthless and empty inside. I have been trying to do nothing but love her and build her up since I confronted her about chris. We decided to start over and forgive and forget the past. But it seems that she has not done that. For me divorce would be the worst thing ever. I grew up the child in 2 divorces. I hate divorce with a passion. I love her more than I ever have. I even told her that I would forgive her for anything, even an affair. She just looks at me with a funny look. Not only would I be losing a woman that I have chosen to love, but I would lose out on part of my children's lives and it would hurt them greatly. I would also lose my job as I am now a minister. Which is why we moved here. This is my fault that I'm in this situation. I just want to fix it. Everything that she says is a contradiction. It drives me nuts!!! She also will not wear her ring because she says that it scratches her. Even though she once said that nothing would stop her from wearing it. I just feel so hopeless.


Dude, being a minister or the child of divorce doesn't mean that you lose your balls. Because you've already told her that you will forgive anything, then why are you here? Maybe you can hold Chris's jacket while he boffs your wife? Before you can do anything about the affair , you need to grow a spine. Your wife is to blame for all of this, Chris is only her d*ck of the moment. The sooner you put your foot down, the better off you'll be.


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## lordmayhem

samdew9 said:


> The thing is that I don't want a divorce at all. I will do anything to prevent it. I was a jerk to my wife for the first 12-13 years and finally saw the light. Not that her behavior was any better, but I still took full responsibility for it. She even admits that I have done nothing wrong. That it's her. She says that she feels worthless and empty inside. I have been trying to do nothing but love her and build her up since I confronted her about chris. We decided to start over and forgive and forget the past. But it seems that she has not done that. For me divorce would be the worst thing ever. I grew up the child in 2 divorces. I hate divorce with a passion. I love her more than I ever have. I even told her that I would forgive her for anything, even an affair. She just looks at me with a funny look. Not only would I be losing a woman that I have chosen to love, but I would lose out on part of my children's lives and it would hurt them greatly. I would also lose my job as I am now a minister. Which is why we moved here. This is my fault that I'm in this situation. I just want to fix it. Everything that she says is a contradiction. It drives me nuts!!! She also will not wear her ring because she says that it scratches her. Even though she once said that nothing would stop her from wearing it. I just feel so hopeless.


Ok, I see where this is heading. It's common among many newly betrayed. You're taking the blame for her cheating and you're desperate to reconcile no matter what. If you're bound and determined to rugsweep this, then it's your choice. Good luck. If have a strong feeling that you'll be back to report things are worse.


----------



## crossbar

samdew9 said:


> . I love her more than I ever have. I even told her that I would forgive her for anything, even an affair. She just looks at me with a funny look.wearing it.


 Dude, seriously?!?! DON'T EVER SAY THIS AGAIN!! Do you know what you just told her? Do you know what's going through her mind right now? "Oh! I can continue my affair and act like a wh*re and he'll still take me back. I got a free pass! Hell Yeah!!!!"

You just showed her you have no self respect for yourself. That she can walk all over you because you have no spine and she's losing all respect for you because you pretty much told her that you're willing to be a cuckold just as long as she stays.

She has to be scared that she's going to lose everything. That her life is going to be extremely difficult because of her own actions. That there are consequences to her actions.

So, if you catch her cheating and she brings up that little statement saying that you'd forgive her for the affair, REMEMBER THIS SENTENCE! "Sure, I can forgive you for the affair, but it doesn't mean I'll still be your husband."


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## Wiserforit

samdew9 said:


> The thing is that I don't want a divorce at all. I will do anything to prevent it... I would also lose my job as I am now a minister. Which is why we moved here. This is my fault that I'm in this situation. I just want to fix it.


Then she has you by the gonads and she knows it. 

A church that would fire you for divorce is not a church worth serving. 

Telling a wife you'll forgive her affair whilst in the middle of it is like telling the bank robber he can go ahead and clean out the safe when you've got the drop on him. Of course he's going to give you a confused look.


----------



## Machiavelli

samdew9 said:


> I've been reading on here a lot lately and it just floored me when I read the signs of a cheating spouse. My wife exhibits almost all of them. I have had my suspicions in the past and have even asked her. She says "I would never do that".


Sure she would. Tell us a little about those "suspicions in the past." How long ago and what were the circumstances that raised those suspicions?



samdew9 said:


> But yet I still have that gut feeling.


Gut feelings are often correct.



samdew9 said:


> So flashback to January.


January of 2012?



samdew9 said:


> She tells me that she is thinking that she wants a divorce.


She was involved in an affair at the point, you understand?




samdew9 said:


> Well long story short, we worked it out. Or so I thought. We moved to a new area last Sept.


Was that to get away from the OM from January 2012, if I got that right?



samdew9 said:


> and she transferred in her job (large dept store chain) to a city about 30 minutes from here. And she started talking about this guy Chris that she worked with about he was the only competent person in her dept. Then he got moved to a different dept. and she was not happy. Well, I thought nothing of it until I remembered her facebook password (she has since changed it and I no longer can see that) one day and saw discussions how she would badmouth me to him and then there was some light sexual talk. So without letting her know that I was on her facebook, I asked her about her having an affair. She denied it. But said that she had guy friends at work. I asked about sexual discussions which she admitted to. Well this guy Chris kept popping up.


Wait. wait. wait. That's it? She admitted to guy friends at work and you said okay, even though she was flying red flags 9 months before? 



samdew9 said:


> She started liking the same stuff and reading the books he suggested to her. I told her that I didn't want her to have anything to do with him but she would always say that he is just a friend that she only briefly talks to on the rare occasion that he walks by her dept. So I said "if that's all, then why can't you drop him to make me happy and give me piece of mind"? She says, "because you're forcing me" Which I wasn't, I told her that it just made me very uncomfortable. Well things got worse when I stopped into her workplace to see her one day and this Chris kept starring at us. Then while I was waiting for one of our kids to get out of the bathroom *Chris walked by me and had this smug look* on his face.


That's known as the "I'm Bangin' Your Wife, Dude" look.




samdew9 said:


> I just wanted to beat him to a pulp!


That's the A#1 best way to break up an affair, but it takes a man with real balls to do that. It's also illegal, which is another reason it takes a man with real balls. You destroy OM's sex rank and raise your own. It's a win-win. Except for the legal ramifications.



samdew9 said:


> So I asked her again to drop him. She got really mad this time. Things are better again, but I have this gut feeling that she's hiding something and may just be "putting on the dog" until she can figure out a way to leave. So I have been going crazy trying to figure out how to get him out of the picture. I want to confront him, but that will make the wife even more ticked. So I thought about making an anonymous email to the large dept stores home office and try to get him fired, but it just seems evil.


Why do you think they would fire him? Maybe they would just fire your wife, instead. What's "evil" about outing adulterers? It is written, _Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops._




samdew9 said:


> My wife and I are both christians...well until he came along. Now she doesn't want anything to do with church.


I've been a Christian for over 50 years and I can tell you that she's showing more integrity by quitting the church than most adulterous Christian women. However, that's also an indicator that she's probably been in a state of unbelief for a while, now, most likely due to the previous adulteries you hint at. She's experienced enough that she doesn't need her rationalization hamster to tell her The Lord's okay with it all.



samdew9 said:


> It just seems like if I can get him gone, then everything would be better.


The problem is, when he's gone your wife will still be there. And this is what she'll be doing: _Yet she multiplied her acts of promiscuity, remembering the days of her youth when she acted like a prostitute in the land of Egypt and lusted after their lovers, whose sexual members were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of stallions. So you revisited the indecency of your youth, when the Egyptians caressed your nipples to enjoy your youthful breasts._

How are you going to compete with all that kind of excitement?



samdew9 said:


> The thing is that I don't want a divorce at all. I will do anything to prevent it. I was a jerk to my wife for the first 12-13 years and finally saw the light. Not that her behavior was any better, but I still took full responsibility for it. She even admits that I have done nothing wrong. That it's her. She says that she feels worthless and empty inside.


This is an implicit confession of adultery.



samdew9 said:


> I have been trying to do nothing but love her and build her up since I confronted her about chris.


The big problem with this is that it is sexually repellant to a woman to have a guy licking her butt when he should be whipping it. She knows a real man would dump her ass. While you're being forgiving, she sees that as a real mark against you. 



samdew9 said:


> We decided to start over and forgive and forget the past. But it seems that she has not done that.


That's because it's not the past, it's the present. You're trying to rugsweep, ignore the facts, and engage in magic thinking. Not too smart. You have to mete out judgment.



samdew9 said:


> For me divorce would be the worst thing ever. I grew up the child in 2 divorces. I hate divorce with a passion.


Yeah, well, God hates divorce (Mal 2:16), but that didn't stop him from divorcing Israel (_I gave faithless Israel her certificate of divorce and sent her away because of all her adulteries. _Jer 3:8) and sending "her" into slavery.



samdew9 said:


> I love her more than I ever have.


This would seem to be misguided.



samdew9 said:


> I even told her that I would forgive her for anything, even an affair. She just looks at me with a funny look.


That's because you are lowering your sexual value (attraction level) every time you debase yourself by making these statements. You would do much better to tell her you're going to divorce her and sell her into an Assyrian whørehouse like God did Israel in the Old Testament.



samdew9 said:


> Not only would I be losing a woman that I have chosen to love, but I would lose out on part of my children's lives and it would hurt them greatly.


Maybe, maybe not. Your wife may well choose to abandon her children to you and run off with one of her lovers. You'd get the best of all possible worlds.



samdew9 said:


> I would also lose my job as I am now a minister.


Explain that one. There is no biblical injunction against an "elder/bishop" being divorced.



samdew9 said:


> Which is why we moved here. This is my fault that I'm in this situation.


Only in the sense that you picked her to marry. And you're continuing to make mistakes in how you deal with her that make OM look more manly than you.



samdew9 said:


> I just want to fix it. Everything that she says is a contradiction. It drives me nuts!!! *She also will not wear her ring* because she says that it scratches her.


Where does she go when she's not at home or work? The bars?



samdew9 said:


> Even though she once said that nothing would stop her from wearing it. I just feel so hopeless.


She's probably getting more spur of the moment, quickie action without the ring, so you can't really blame her for not wearing it.

You need to grow some new balls, because your old ones got lost somewhere along the way. My denomination is one of those where the preachers tend to have too much testosterone (they keep screwing the sheep) but as a general rule ministers have the lowest testosterone of any male occupation.

If you want to save your marriage, you have to be willing to burn it, on principle. You're supposed to be the man, but you aren't showing any manliness. Act like God and _"write her out a bill of divorcement."_


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## Entropy3000

Ok, I have only perused. If she works with this dude she must quit her job immediately. Do not give her time to work anything out with her lover. Immediately. IF she refuses, you file. You do not give her time to comply. Well five minutes. BUT she does not get to call anyone during that time.

If you will not do this you are not willing to save your marriage.

And if you would not do this the least you could have done is break that SOBs jaw. You might go to jail but they would have fired your wife. And that is a good thing.


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## Thor

samdew9 said:


> The thing is that I don't want a divorce at all. I will do anything to prevent it.


Game over.

So now we just sit and watch the inevitable chain of events. When you make it your Prime Directive that divorce is not an option, you instantly ensure divorce _will_ happen.


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## Thor

And then I read the remainder of your post. You're digging the grave for your marriage.


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## weightlifter

Thor is right. You gave her a green light. If you do as we show you, you have a chance. If you do otherwise, Thor nailed it: >And then I read the remainder of your post. You're digging the grave for your marriage. <

I gave you your immediate plan.
Once you get enough for a devastating confront we can get you thru to the end.

We in the CWI TAM Army are damn damn damn good at this grim task.


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## lordmayhem

samdew9 left shortly after his last post. It's the typical "BS in denial/fear and didn't hear what he wanted to hear, so he left" thread. Most likely he wanted advice on how to nice her out of the affair. He'll be back when his WW has left him for the OM or when his resentment has built up so much that it's eating him alive. 

It's sad, but typical of the many "help me" threads. I've seen so many of these over the years.


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## Machiavelli

lordmayhem said:


> samdew9 left shortly after his last post. It's the typical "BS in denial/fear and didn't hear what he wanted to hear, so he left" thread. Most likely he wanted advice on how to nice her out of the affair. He'll be back when his WW has left him for the OM or when his resentment has built up so much that it's eating him alive.
> 
> It's sad, but typical of the many "help me" threads. I've seen so many of these over the years.


That behavior is part and parcel of how they ended up here to begin with.


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## Hoosier

I read where he takes a lot of the blame for his failed marriage, and it reminds me of my own situation back in July of 2011. I had such tremendous guilt about not being the head of my household, not seeing enough about my marriage, I just loved my wife and wanted her back. Can remember crying out to god, wishing I had my life back, and my marriage totally sucked the last two years we were together. I sit here now shaking my head, wondering how I was lucky enough to be able to pull myself up out of my own fog. I am/was so fortunate for the friends here on this site. My counselor told me that my divorce saved my life, made me look at myself, improve myself, pulled me out of a really deep whole, could not of done it without TAM. I worry about guys like OP, they run around wringing their hands, never accomplishing anything, but what they don't want to have happen. I just want to reach thru the computer and SHAKE them. Thanks again TAM, I owe you.....more than I can repay.
Oh, and one other thing. When people talk about how they cant divorce, against their Christian beliefs, I wish they would read their bible. God gives you an out if you suffer infidelity in your marriage. One of the few things that releases you from the bond of marriage. I asked my xw for a release from my pledge, because it was important to ME. But I did it knowing the whole time that God agreeded it was ok.


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## lordmayhem

Hoosier said:


> I read where he takes a lot of the blame for his failed marriage, and it reminds me of my own situation back in July of 2011. I had such tremendous guilt about not being the head of my household, not seeing enough about my marriage, I just loved my wife and wanted her back. Can remember crying out to god, wishing I had my life back, and my marriage totally sucked the last two years we were together. I sit here now shaking my head, wondering how I was lucky enough to be able to pull myself up out of my own fog. I am/was so fortunate for the friends here on this site. My counselor told me that my divorce saved my life, made me look at myself, improve myself, pulled me out of a really deep whole, could not of done it without TAM. I worry about guys like OP, they run around wringing their hands, never accomplishing anything, but what they don't want to have happen. I just want to reach thru the computer and SHAKE them. Thanks again TAM, I owe you.....more than I can repay.
> Oh, and one other thing. When people talk about how they cant divorce, against their Christian beliefs, I wish they would read their bible. God gives you an out if you suffer infidelity in your marriage. One of the few things that releases you from the bond of marriage. I asked my xw for a release from my pledge, because it was important to ME. But I did it knowing the whole time that God agreeded it was ok.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

Well said sir!


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## Thorburn

I was a minister full-time or part-time from 1985 till last year. Some church groups/denominaitons have no tolerance for D no matter what, but many don't punish the minister if they are not at fault as in the spouse cheats and the minister files for D they will not hold that against them. 

I know where you are coming from but the Bible allows you to D without question in your case. Matthew 19 gives us the cause for D.

God hates D. D stinks ask anyone who has gone through it.

I got my wife back through lots of prayer but I will tell you I am still not done the road very far and I am not sure it was worth it. Yesterday she wsa near the OM's house and workplace getting chemo and today she is at work and she is about 20 minutes from the OM's house. I can't tell you the anxiety I have today or had yesterday and I am tracking her. It is not fun living this way. I am told that at some point I may trust her again but is it worth it?

You are getting good advice. Pray that things work out for you.


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## samdew9

I didn't leave. I'm just soaking it all in. Prepping my mind for all of this. I will be getting a VAR soon. I can do this. I will do this. Thank you all for your help so far.


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## Will_Kane

samdew9 said:


> I've been reading on here a lot lately and it just floored me when I read the signs of a cheating spouse. My wife exhibits almost all of them. *I have had my suspicions in the pas*t and have even asked her. She says "I would never do that". But yet I still have that gut feeling. So *flashback to January. She tells me that she is thinking that she wants a divorce*. Well long story short, we worked it out. Or so I thought. *We moved to a new area last Sept. and she transferred in her job (large dept store chain) to a city about 30 minutes from here. And she started talking about this guy Chris that she worked with* about he was the only competent person in her dept. Then he got moved to a different dept. and she was not happy. Well, I thought nothing of it until I remembered her facebook password (she has since changed it and I no longer can see that) one day and saw discussions how *she would badmouth me to him and then there was some light sexual talk*.


Just to confirm the timeline, you moved to a new area in September because of your job, your wife moved with you and was able to transfer to the same department store in a different city near where you both moved to. That was September 2012. Then in January 2013 she told you she is thinking of a divorce. At this point, she hides her conversations with her other man from you. Is this correct?

If so, I would agree that she was already having the affair in January 2013 and that it has continued since then.

You are just about completely in the dark about what your wife is up to and she is making no efforts at all to make your marriage better.

You are not going to be able to take the appropriate actions unless you know what's going on. What you know now is that your wife doesn't wear a wedding ring, talks sexually with other man, and badmouths you to him and hides her conversations from you. 

If they work in the same building or close to each other, they probably are meeting up for sex in the parking lot or nearby.

Get a voice-activated recorder and some heavy-duty velcro. Put it under the front seat of her car. You probably will find out what's going on within a week. Then you can take appropriate actions.

In the meantime, as others have posted, telling your wife that you always will be there for her no matter what is making her cheat more, not less. She looks at you as pathetic, that you can't get another woman unless you pay for it, and that the only reason you would be so willing to excuse her horrible behavior is because you have no other option but your wife. She does NOT see your actions as having anything to do with your love of her, of your family, of your children. Only when she thinks losing you is a possibility will she begin to think twice about cheating on you.


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## Dad&Hubby

samdew9 said:


> I didn't leave. I'm just soaking it all in. Prepping my mind for all of this. I will be getting a VAR soon. I can do this. I will do this. Thank you all for your help so far.


OP, the biggest mistake early on in this type of situation is the self-devaluation done by the BS. The WS in a marriage becomes enthralled with someone new, they divert their energies (emotional, sexual etc) to this new person and AWAY from the BS. The BS sees and feels the marriage struggling but usually doesn't assign blame to the WS, the BS's initial reaction is to look back on all the ways they must've failed in the marriage or let their WS down (because unlike the WS, the BS is still devoting their energies to the marriage and their spouse). But as more energy is put into the marriage and less returned, a spiral of negativity forms for the BS. They feel more and more isolated and more and more like a failure. They try harder and harder to fix the problem. But here's the kicker. They have nothing to do with this IMMEDIATE problem. Have you ever pursued someone in a dating sense early in life and they just "weren't that into you", well the WS in this situation just "isn't that into you" even if they SAY (words are cheap) that they are and they're "just going through something".

BS's biggest mistake is misdiagnosing what the problem is. The problem is that the WS doesn't value or appreciate the BS and their marriage any longer. Let me repeat this because you need to look at this problem and start thinking about how to solve it. The WS doesn't value or appreciate the BS and their marriage. The WS isn't attracted to the BS. They aren't interested in any physical attention whether it be cuddling or sex. The WS has devoted their energies to someone else. Again, the problem RIGHT NOW isn't all the things you've made mistakes with before. It's that the WS is into someone else. Now if you can get the WS back into you, THEN you can fix those other issues to KEEP them into you, but you have to get them into you again.

SO, with the PROPER definition of the problem. How can you get the WS into you. Speaking from your situation (BH with WW), what attracts women. Strength, confidence etc. Well, how strong is a man who says "I don't care if you cheated, I'll accept that". How much value does he have of himself if he'll let his mate go fug someone else? Think of the classic "man's man", what would he do. Or...(and I'm saying this without being a jerk, I'm kinda serious) What would JESUS do? What has Jesus taught about infidelity? 

You've made mistakes in your relationship, but you've also loved your wife and kids a great deal. You're not as bad of a husband as you feel right now. YOU DON'T DESERVE THIS. Put the perceptions of your wife in their proper place. And DO NOT make the mistake of blaming "Chris". Yes he's a douche. Yes he needs a good a$$ whooping (or stoning :smthumbup but the real culprit and perpetrator is your wife.


----------



## weightlifter

2 reminders. Do this today not soon. Get that VAR way up inside underneath her seat. Yes the noise from the seat springs is annoying but its less annoying than a found VAR.

DO NOT listen if you hear him get in her car and they start at it!. You will be tempted. Trust me I know you are NOT strong enough to hear your wife moan with another man inside her! You will multiply your damage by 10!


----------



## unbelievable

A long time ago my (then) wife was having an affair. I just used the direct approach and told the guy if I caught him with her, contacting her, or even thinking about her, that he would be leaving this world early. As I had suspected, she had lied and told the guy she was divorced. I had no more trouble out of him but she was still a lying, cheating heifer and the marriage didn't last long. I am glad he took the hint because she wasn't worth doing time for. That guy wasn't taking anything that she wasn't freely giving out.


----------



## workindad

OP glad to see that you are hanging in. Get the VAR sooner rather than later. 

Your thread title is interesting Perhaps it should be how to get my wife away from this guy, all other guys, and if not then away from me. 

Unbelievable's post above the last few sentences are spot on. 

Dude if your wife is putting out signals that she is a available then you will never be able to chase all the OMs away.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## FormerSelf

Hoosier said:


> My counselor told me that my divorce saved my life


 Wow, I mean, WOW.... I connect with that statement...like from out of nowhere. BOOM.



unbelievable said:


> ...but she was still a lying, cheating heifer ....


Why did this make me laugh so abruptly...when I am sure that is not the intent. Maybe the visual/conjugation of the word "heifer"..........hahhaha. So juvenile, I can be.


----------



## samdew9

I guess the thing that scares me the most is if divorce happens, I face losing everything. My wife that I love dearly, my children the are my life, my job that I love and have worked hard to get. Then facing the reality of not being able to find another job that pays more than $25-30,000 per year and after uncle Sam and child support gets done with me, having to live on right around $1000 per month. And what woman would want a guy that can barely provide for himself, let alone her. Not to mention the heartache and shame.


----------



## Chaparral

You are making it sound worse than it is. You will not lose your kids. Make a list of the things you will gain.
Read MMSLP, link below. You are way to passive for her.
Print off divorce papers and let her find them.
Go to dadsdivorce.com
Do you think Jesus would sit around wringing his hands, wailing and nashing his teeth.
Pastor up.


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## Shaggy

You need 12.5 per hour to earn 25,000 per year.

You can find jobs that that.


----------



## samdew9

Shaggy said:


> You need 12.5 per hour to earn 25,000 per year.
> 
> You can find jobs that that.


That's what I'm saying. That's most likely gonna be the best paying job I'll be able to find. Then subtract taxes and child support for 5 kids and there's not much left to live on.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Have you actually spoken to an attorney on what your options are? No offense but you are making an awful lot of assumptions about what the future holds in store for you. 

You really need to have a sit down with an attorney. Things may not really be as bleak as you think.


----------



## weightlifter

sam find out what you are dealing with first.

START YOUR INTEL TODAY. WEEKENDS ARE OFTEN GOOD INTEL GATHERING TIMES.

I gave you your plan. I cant go to best buy and walmart for you.


----------



## Thor

Talk to a divorce atty. They usually give out free 10 or 15 minute initial consults where you can ask some questions and they'll give you the general lay of the land in your location. You'll find out what kind of custody and child support is typical. You'll find out about spousal support, taxes, and what the overall process is like.


----------



## LostViking

I think what makes exposure and divorce more pertinent in this case is that she is a pastor's wife. She is the First Lady of the church and has a responsibility to lead by example. 

By not exposing her and stopping her predatory behavior the OP is sinning against God and his congregation. I am a poor example of a Lutheran, but I am sure of that much.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

Going to a, or leading in a church, or believing in a god, does not automatically make a person have a higher morals, or give them more, or a better character.

These people are *suppose* have higher standards, but they're still just that, people. People will do what they *want* to do, regardless of if they believe in a god.

I mean, just look at how often that a certain church gets sued over sex abuse.

These people are priests and they did the most horrific things to children. If there is indeed a h3ll...

The church they belonged to, or the god that they believed in didn't stop them from doing these things.

So what sway would this have on the common adulterer/adulteress...


----------



## LostViking

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Going to a, or leading in a church, or believing in a god, does not automatically make a person have a higher morals, or give them more, or a better character.
> 
> These people are *suppose* have higher standards, but they're still just that, people. People will do what they *want* to do, regardless of if they believe in a god.
> 
> I mean, just look at how often that a certain church gets sued over sex abuse.
> 
> These people are priests and they did the most horrific things to children. If there is indeed a h3ll...
> 
> The church they belonged to, or the god that they believed in didn't stop them from doing these things.
> 
> So what sway would this have on the common adulterer/adulteress...


:iagree:

Thats why his WW needs to be exposed for the wolf she is.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Oh yes, I agree LV. Sorry, but I thought you meant something a little different...

Thanks.


----------



## LostViking

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Oh yes, I agree LV. Sorry, but I thought you meant something a little different...
> 
> Thanks.


No what I meant was, whether you believe in a god or not, whether you believe in organized religion or not, a person such as a preacher's wife is, whether she likes it or not, a leader. Other women in the church look to her for leadership and as a role model...whether she likes it or not. 

Would you hire a thief to night-audit the books at your hotel? 

It sounds to me like she never fully embraced what her husband was doing, or is so morally vaccuous that she has no conception of the harm she is doing to the congregation. A morally bankrupt woman like this cannot be the wife of an ordained minister. 

That's why he needs to go before the church, his flock, and tell them what his wife has been doing, and that he is either going to divorce her right away or step down from his position of leadership while he works on his marriage. 

The word is already out that she is cheating with a man or men in the church. And I can guarantee people are laughing and sneering behind his back, wondering why he won't do anything about her behavior. 

He is screwed either way. If he divorces he may get fired. If he doesn't do anything, he will definitely get fired because he is refusing to put down sin among his flock.


----------



## the guy

samdew9 said:


> I guess the thing that scares me the most is if divorce happens, I face losing everything. My wife that I love dearly, my children the are my life, my job that I love and have worked hard to get. Then facing the reality of not being able to find another job that pays more than $25-30,000 per year and after uncle Sam and child support gets done with me, having to live on right around $1000 per month. And what woman would want a guy that can barely provide for himself, let alone her. Not to mention the heartache and shame.


And what makes you think that your old lady also has these fears?
But if you have the balls to follow thru and bail, your wife then has the balls to lose what she has to lose over some POS who may or may not want all the baggage you old lady has to offer.

I think once your old lady sees you ain't sharing her no matter the consequences, she might start to see the consequences she will face when it gets really for her.

At the end of the day, until the both of you taste the sting of all the bull crap she is doing, she will never second guess her choices. Until she is faced with the new reality of her decisions she will never think twice in what she is going to lose.

Her action will break up this family and you...my friend have to show her in no uncertain terms that you will not tolerate her crap!

Chicks dig confident men and only your confidence in the tough choice you need to make will save this marriage.

Sure I good be wrong and the marriage gets dumped but you will walk away with a hell of a lot of respect, cuz your old lady knows what she is doing is wrong and the man she once loved won't take her sh1t......

I pray that I am right and your old lady sees she has just as much to lose as you do and gets out of her affair fog before all of this crap is said and done.

So the answer to your question is to get rid of this guy is to get rid of your wife. Smile and wish them the best.

Hell go rent a Uhaul and drive it over to the OM place and ask him were he wants all the kids funiture and your wifes craps. Not saying pack all this crap up, but even though the truck is empty, it would be priceless to see the look on his face....LOL


----------



## SadandAngry

samdew9 said:


> That's what I'm saying. That's most likely gonna be the best paying job I'll be able to find. Then subtract taxes and child support for 5 kids and there's not much left to live on.


Well guess what? Reality is that divorce is exactly where you're ***** footing is going to take you. And she will walk all over you in court, because you don't want to cause a ruckus, or make it worse, or whatever.

You need to pull your head out of your ass today, and lead your family. Technically, you don't really need anymore than you already know. It is bad. It is bad enough to issue an ultimatum, and to follow through. She doesn't know the extent of your knowledge. But she sure as hell knows what she has done. Assume the worst, and play that hand from strength. You cannot control her, you can't make her choose you, but you can control what you will put up with, and what you will not.

You do not deserve such ****ty treatment from your spouse. Don't accept it. Put your foot down and lead. Doesn't matter if she follows, you can still lead yourself and your children to a better life.

You will have to work on yourself too. No More Mr Nice Guy. Married Man's Sex Life Primer. Books by John Gottman, Brene Brown, and others. A stack so high it's daunting, but you need to do it if you want to lead a better life. What you've done so far, well, if it brought you here, it isn't too good. But you can fix that. You can start by standing up, and demanding of your wife, she's in, or she's out. Now. If she's in, she gets a new job, tomorrow. NO CONTACT with the POSOM again, forever. Full transparency. Counselling. If she can't commit to that, cut her loose, and look out for yourself. 

But that's too far ahead. Just make her choose first. You are going to have to do it sooner or later. If you use your head, face the facts, and take the proper attitude, you can do it without further evidence. That's a big if. If you won't truly stand up, if you don't want to believe she has betrayed you, then follow the plan, and get the proof so that even you can't deny the truth.


----------



## Brokenshadow

weightlifter said:


> VARS mentioned cue Weightlifter. Thats me. Resident wife buster.
> 
> Buy 2 sony ICDPX312 voice activated recorders. Best Buy sells them for like 50 bucks. DO NOT BUY THE cheapies. USE LITHIUM batteries. We have examples of 25 hour recordings using them on these sony recorders.
> 
> Go to a different Walmart and buy heavy duty velcro.
> 
> Use the velcro to attach the var under her seat. DO IT WELL and TURN OFF THE DAMN BEEP that it does. Its on one of the menus or even better cut the wires to the speaker. SECURE IT WELL!!!!!!
> 
> Put the second in whatever room she uses to talk in when you are not around.
> 
> Usual warning. If you hear Chris or another man get in her car STOP Listening and have a trusted friend tell you what went on. Knowing she is a cheat will kill you. Hearing her moan while Chris is inside her will murder you to your very soul!!!!!! You are not strong enough to hear that. Dont try it. I know what I am talking about in this.
> 
> Play dumb husband for a bit. Dont drive her further underground! NO MORE CONFRONTS!! You FAILED the first one. Next one is armageddon not half assed.
> 
> Steel yourself for the ugly possibility of a full PA. Odds are 49.999% and rising.
> 
> DO THIS NOW!!!!!! Not in 1 hour. TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE. There is still a shot it is not physical tho that deceases by the minute!
> 
> If you need clean up the recordings get Audacity. Its free from the internet. I have used it on var work for others here to remove things like engine noise.
> 
> Oh what state are you in so we know how much proof you need etc.
> 
> Ages?
> 
> Kids?
> 
> Are you still getting laid?
> 
> Oh and I have written confront scripts for others here. I know 2 were used and were successful in breaking the wife to confess.


Wler, you are renowned for your VARs experience and knowledge, but always warn to have someone else listen. Is your warning something you experienced?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

I'm disappointed your seminary hasn't prepared you better for this type of situation.


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## Brokenshadow

chapparal said:


> I'm disappointed your seminary hasn't prepared you better for this type of situation.


Just wondering, but is it even possible for a minister to be anything other than beta? Not exactly cotton Mather we're talking about here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Machiavelli

Brokenshadow said:


> Just wondering, but is it even possible for a minister to be anything other than beta? Not exactly cotton Mather we're talking about here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It is, but it has been shown that ministers have the lowest testosterone of all male occupations.


----------



## weightlifter

Brokenshadow said:


> Wler, you are renowned for your VARs experience and knowledge, but always warn to have someone else listen. Is your warning something you experienced?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Early in my VAR days. Had one of my charges heard his wife being fvcked. He was posting as he was listening. You could see his posts go from hurt knowing she cheated already to utterly destroyed because he actually was hearing her moaning and climaxing. BAD BAD juju for any man to hear. I have done work for three men. They have not released even their TAM names so they shall remain, unnamed.

My wife "only" had an email EA (which I caught early basically at the spooning state) with an ex so my triggers while bad, are microscopic compared to those whose wives gave themselves over fully. It makes me good for this kind of work. I only trigger a) When she is emailing cause my trust is shot b) when she goes out cause my trust is shot. c) when she says something stupid (Like "snooping?!?" when I looked at her facebook page she was typing on) cause my trust is shot. She went off on me for snooping her email after on Mar 2, 2013 at 7:58AM I went on her comp to get weather and found her email open with an email from an ex subject "are mareidge". (our marriage) I then found that she had emailed not one month as she said but for at least 5 months as far back as I could find. Oh and I am a college degreed man with a 140 IQ and she couldn't EFFING PICK pick someone better than a half literate HILLBILLY!???

That is my biggie. I will never in my life have that implicit 100% blind trust and yes, I miss it. I miss it alot. Funny the things you never know you have until they are gone.

Oh and credit to RDMU who is the one who put me onto those models. Sound quality is excellent. He also put me onto the Ezoom which can be had at Radio shack. I always try to provide items that can be bought at common stores for cash to keep the cheater off balance.

LOL Sony must love me and no I dont get anything from them.


----------



## 2ntnuf

You should hear something like that in real life over the phone. Her giving oral to another man in between telling you to get some lingerie packed for her and the OM in the background moaning and telling her that it's okay if she stops and talks to you. It's what sent me over the edge. I told her to, "Get the c**k out of your mouth and talk to me." Then he told her, "It's okay. You can talk to him." Never found out who that was. My blood pressure soared. I broke then and there. Kudos to whoever suggested she do that. It ruined my life. It's one thing to know in your mind that these things happen. It's another to hear them in real time a day or two after she leaves. Weightlifter is right. Don't listen.

Edit: It put me in the hospital for a few days.


----------



## Jonesey

2ntnuf said:


> You should hear something like that in real life over the phone. Her giving oral to another man in between telling you to get some lingerie packed for her and the OM in the background moaning and telling her that it's okay if she stops and talks to you. It's what sent me over the edge. I told her to, *"Get the c**k out of your mouth and talk to me.*" *Then he told her, "It's okay. You can talk to him.*" Never found out who that was. My blood pressure soared. I broke then and there. Kudos to whoever suggested she do that. It ruined my life. It's one thing to know in your mind that these things happen. It's another to hear them in real time a day or two after she leaves. Weightlifter is right. Don't listen.


Dang this is BRUTAL.


----------



## ReformedHubby

Jonesey said:


> Dang this is BRUTAL.


You think thats bad? I used to live in an apartment complex and there was a a couple that had recently had a baby. Apparently the wife took a liking to one of the single guys in our building. She became so brazen with her cheating that she literally left in the middle of the night and took the baby monitor with her. Her husband awakened to the sounds of her doing the neighbor. I saw the husband the next day and it was very obvious to me that he was in the midst of a breakdown. He just couldn't believe that the mother of his child hated him that much. Poor guy. End Thread Jack.....


----------



## Brokenshadow

ReformedHubby said:


> You think thats bad? I used to live in an apartment complex and there was a a couple that had recently had a baby. Apparently the wife took a liking to one of the single guys in our building. She became so brazen with her cheating that she literally left in the middle of the night and took the baby monitor with her. Her husband awakened to the sounds of her doing the neighbor. I saw the husband the next day and it was very obvious to me that he was in the midst of a breakdown. He just couldn't believe that the mother of his child hated him that much. Poor guy. End Thread Jack.....


Man, I gotta stop reading TAM in the mornings...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Machiavelli

Brokenshadow said:


> Man, I gotta stop reading TAM in the mornings...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Happy Father's Day


----------



## Brokenshadow

Machiavelli said:


> Happy Father's Day


Very happy that considering my current situation, I don't have any kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jonesey

ReformedHubby said:


> You think thats bad? I used to live in an apartment complex and there was a a couple that had recently had a baby. Apparently the wife took a liking to one of the single guys in our building. She became so brazen with her cheating that she literally left in the middle of the night and took the baby monitor with her. Her husband awakened to the sounds of her doing the neighbor. I saw the husband the next day and it was very obvious to me that he was in the midst of a breakdown. He just couldn't believe that the mother of his child hated him that much. Poor guy. End Thread Jack.....


Ouch! Reminds me of Lostcpa thread.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

Machiavelli said:


> It is, but it has been shown that ministers have the lowest testosterone of all male occupations.


I would put Televangelist on a different level. Those guys are all up in LOTs of women's (and some men's) "action".


----------



## Shaggy

2ntnuf said:


> You should hear something like that in real life over the phone. Her giving oral to another man in between telling you to get some lingerie packed for her and the OM in the background moaning and telling her that it's okay if she stops and talks to you. It's what sent me over the edge. I told her to, "Get the c**k out of your mouth and talk to me." Then he told her, "It's okay. You can talk to him." Never found out who that was. My blood pressure soared. I broke then and there. Kudos to whoever suggested she do that. It ruined my life. It's one thing to know in your mind that these things happen. It's another to hear them in real time a day or two after she leaves. Weightlifter is right. Don't listen.
> 
> Edit: It put me in the hospital for a few days.


Wow , your hopefully EX wife is evil. Why haven't you tracked down the POS and an destroyed him? 

I hope you also took all her lingerie and burned it in the fireplace that night.


----------



## LostViking

Guess th OP has bailed out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## weightlifter

He seems to come by over long periods of time. Maybe maybe not bailed.

Just wish he would act!


----------



## samdew9

I don't know if I can take this or not. I just got rid of my facebook account. im sick and tired of my wife having all of these people as "close" friends so only they can see all of her content. but im not one of them. The way that I see it, I don't give a crap about what she is doing or who she is doing. the fact is, that our marriage is crap and she doesn't care. I know that she is lying. proving it will only hurt worse. the fact is, my life is over. I will have to find another job because I will lose mine over this garbage. im sick of living a fake life. sick of having a loving affectionate wife in public but not at home. im done. I cant go on anymore. I think that tonight after everyone is asleep im going to go to the garage and start both cars and just go to sleep. forever. thank you all for caring enough to give me advice. but I am not able to accept divorce or a lie. I worked hard and gave up a lot of great things to get to where I am at with my career. im not starting over again. I cant, I wont. im done.


----------



## tom67

No one is worth doing that call someone if you need help.


----------



## NatureDave

Why will you lose your job over this?

My new wife is a Pastor and she went through a painful divorce while still serving her church. Friends and the congregation were a great support system for her.

There is life after divorce and it can be even more fulfilling. 

You can do this...you have to for your children. Get off these boards and call someone and get the help you need.


----------



## tom67

Come on money comes and goes people come and go. I have not heard I person here who regretted divorcing in fact most wished they had done it sooner. You can find someone who is honest and that loves you.


----------



## AMRAP

Don't do it. It will mess up your childrens' lives forever. Don't leave them with pain and anguish. 

Your life will get better. You can be strong. We are all tested by life at certain times. A bad marriage is no reason to kill yourself. Most people are much happier after divorce. You are saying because you will have less money you want to die?

Things are never as bad as they seem unless you are at final stage cancer!!


----------



## LostViking

She is not worth it. 

Call an emergency meeting of your deacons. Tell them in closed conference what is happening and that you are planning to divorce your wife. Then call the association representative or governing board of your church and tell them what is happening. 

If you are open and honest about what is happening, and get them on your side, then I doubt highly this would be the end of your ministry. Yes, you would most likely have to step down as minister for a time until the divorce if final. 

Religious associations are much more flexible about divorce these days than they used to be, especially when it involves adultery on the part of the minister's spouse. 

I just do not understand your defeatist attitude.

Expose the truth to the light of day. Expose your wife and the man or men at the church she is sleeping with. If I am not mistaken you are commanded to do this in the Bible. 

So not only are you sinning through your prevarocation and unwillingness to deal with this issue, you want to compound it by committing the ultimate sin of suicide? 

You need help. Call the Natl Suicide Prevention hotline and TALK to someone!!!! 1-800-273-TALK (8255).


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Brother, she is just not worth it. Think of your kids. Don't do that to them. Just start divorce proceedings and move on with your life. Leave he in the rear view mirror. Where she belongs.


----------



## LostViking

Why are you so intent on ignoring the advice you have been given in this thread? 

Why have you not acted? Why have you not done what you know to be right? 

Instead of wallowing in self pity, try standing up and acting like the man of God you are supposed to be.


----------



## workindad

Please seek immediate help for yourself. There is no reason to take your life over this. Your life is not over.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

LostViking said:


> Why are you so intent on ignoring the advice you have been given in this thread?
> 
> Why have you not acted? Why have you not done what you know to be right?
> 
> Instead of wallowing in self pity, try standing up and acting like the man of God you are supposed to be.


Fight for your kids show them a father who will not be disrespected anymore.


----------



## LostViking

1-800-273-talk (8255).


----------



## Thorburn

So you end your life over a cheating wife? Why? I can't tell you the number of guys I had to deal with in Iraq who wanted to swallow a bullet because of what their wives were doing at home. I won't even go into the stories with guys with M-16s in their mouths that we kicked in doors to stop them. Not one of them completed their suicide attempt but they came awfully close. 

You are not thinking straight. Go right now and get help. Go to your nearest E.R.

Your ministry is not over. I gave up my ordination last year over my wife's crap, but I did it willingly and was not required to do so and I was with a conservative group.

Get in the Word Brother. Don't give UP!!!!!!!!!!!!


1 Peter 5:10 ESV And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you. 

James 1:12 ESV Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him. 

Romans 12:12 ESV Rejoice in hope, be patient in tribulation, be constant in prayer. 

1 Corinthians 10:13 ESV No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it. 
John 16:33 ESV I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world.” 
Philippians 4:6-7 ESV Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. 
Romans 5:3 ESV /More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, 
Romans 8:18 ESV / For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 
James 1:2-8 ESV / Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing. If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him. But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind. ... 
1 Peter 4:12 ESV /Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. 
Philippians 4:13 ESV I can do all things through him who strengthens me. 
Romans 8:28 ESV And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. 
Joshua 1:9 ESV Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be frightened, and do not be dismayed, for the Lord your God is with you wherever you go.” 

Matthew 19:26 ESV But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” 
2 Corinthians 12:9 ESV But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 
Philippians 4:7 ESV /And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. 
Psalm 23:4 ESV / Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me. 
Romans 5:2-5 ESV /Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us. 
1 Peter 1:7 ESV /So that the tested genuineness of your faith—more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire—may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ. 
2 Corinthians 4:16 ESV / So we do not lose heart. Though our outer self is wasting away, our inner self is being renewed day by day. 
Psalm 34:17-18 ESV /When the righteous cry for help, the Lord hears and delivers them out of all their troubles. The Lord is near to the brokenhearted and saves the crushed in spirit. 
Psalm 34:19 ESV / Many are the afflictions of the righteous, but the Lord delivers him out of them all. 
Philippians 4:19 ESV And my God will supply every need of yours according to his riches in glory in Christ Jesus.
James 4:7 ESV / Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
John 14:16 ESV / And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, 
John 3:16 ESV / “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 


Galatians 2:20 ESV / I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 

Ephesians 1:11 ESV / In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 

Matthew 10:28 ESV / And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. 

John 1:12 ESV / But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 
Matthew 28:20 ESV Teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”


----------



## 2ntnuf

When you get stuck in this mood, force yourself to get a little tea or something with a little caffeine. It will lift your mood. I do not recommend it as a cure. It's just for a little help to pull you up out of the deep darkness of your thoughts. You can do it. I have taken the time to look up a Psalm that helped me when I was in my dark place. I hope it will help you. I buried myself in the Word. The Lord is kind and merciful. His mercy endures forever. Don't forget a little caffeine. 





Psalms Chapter 138


Viewing the Standard King James Version (Pure Cambridge). 


1 (A Psalm of David.) I will praise thee with my whole heart: before the gods will I sing praise unto thee.

2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

3 In the day when I cried thou answeredst me, and strengthenedst me with strength in my soul.

4 All the kings of the earth shall praise thee, O LORD, when they hear the words of thy mouth.

5 Yea, they shall sing in the ways of the LORD: for great is the glory of the LORD.

6 Though the LORD be high, yet hath he respect unto the lowly: but the proud he knoweth afar off.

7 Though I walk in the midst of trouble, thou wilt revive me: thou shalt stretch forth thine hand against the wrath of mine enemies, and thy right hand shall save me.

8 The LORD will perfect that which concerneth me: thy mercy, O LORD, endureth for ever: forsake not the works of thine own hands.


----------



## SadandAngry

You need to talk to someone to get some perspective. Call one of the numbers above. Call someone from your church. Go to a health centre, Call a crisis line. Whatever, just talk to anyone to let it out. You don't need to deal with this alone. You aren't any less of a person, any less deserving of being loved because of what your wife is doing. Really. Truly. Call.


----------



## Theseus

samdew9 said:


> I think that tonight after everyone is asleep im going to go to the garage and start both cars and just go to sleep. forever. thank you all for caring enough to give me advice. but I am not able to accept divorce or a lie. I worked hard and gave up a lot of great things to get to where I am at with my career. im not starting over again. I cant, I wont. im done.



If nothing else convinces you to not take your own life, then maybe this will. Think about this: *If you kill yourself, she "wins". * She gets all YOUR property, she gets your life insurance (if any), she moves her boyfriend into YOUR home, this other guy becomes a dad to YOUR children, and they go on their merry way. You don't want that to happen do you?


----------



## 2ntnuf

check in please


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

samdew9 said:


> my children the are my life


Go get help because, if you kill yourself, this is a lie.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Thinking about you. Hope you are alright. I kept you in my prayers last night. Do the best you can each day. You only need to be the best you can be in this moment. Keep everyone that has tried to help you here in mind when you get really down. These folks care about you. My mum used to say, "The Lord works in mysterious ways." We don't know what is in our future. We know He will always be there if we want Him. Tell Him you are angry with Him. Tell Him you hurt. Give it to Him. Leave it to Him to deal with and do what you can for yourself each moment. Be compassionate with yourself. Forgive yourself and let God work in you and through you, once again.


----------



## Rottdad42

I think this OP is on another website. Or is having a hard time swallowing the real and nasty. Hey man you need to take this info and nuke it where it stands. These people are trying to help you not hurt you. The hurt is coming from your SO. Myself I know from my experience and learning from these guys. EYE OPENING! Live vicariously through us here, the damage will be less if you act now. Good luck.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

He was on here at 10:00pm Yesterday.

For someone that was pouring his heart out for the first 10 days here, he sure got awfully quite all of a sudden.

It makes me wonder...


----------



## doubletrouble

Hmmm, talks about suicide and leaves, but obviously didn't suicide (thank God). 

WTF?


----------



## LostViking

He doesn't want to do what he knows he has to do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

From the content of your posts, I have to conclude you have not read MMSLP yet. Why is that?


----------



## samdew9

Sorry about leaving. I was so low on that Friday and then something weird happened which I'll explain later. I didn't come back and post on here because frankly, some of you made some rude freaking comments that just aren't true. And some of you need to learn to read. My wife has never slept with anyone in the church...EVER. I only suspect her of having a PA with the one guy from her work. Now for the weird part.

So that Friday I was extremely low and wanting to leave this earth. So my wife gets home from work and I walk into the bedroom expecting the same cold treatment. But something strange happened. She hugged me. Then she kissed me like she did when we were newlyweds. And it hasn't stopped since. I don't know what to think about it at all. Part of me thinks that it could be fake. I don't say anything about it because I don't want to take a chance of messing it up. So I've just been going with it hoping that it doesn't end. But knowing that it probably will. She's been a completely different person for 10 days and counting. 

And chaparral, I am getting that book. Just haven't done it yet. But I will do it.


----------



## Shaggy

Unfortunately a sudden change in sex behavior can be a sign of an affair - it can be her over compensating for the affair, it can also be her being worked up by a EA relationship with an OM.

Enjoy the attention, but be in the watch for other things being amiss.


----------



## samdew9

And as for the low testosterone part. I am a minister, yes. But I am still a very competitive athlete and weight lifter. I've got plenty. In fact, I believe that some of my marriage woes come from having a bit too much. (natural, never had steroids) In my younger years I was well known to break and smash things when I got angry. (I once smashed the diaper wipes container that was next to me while watching a football game) It's something that I have repented of apologized for and have been trying make amends for. I've never hurt anyone physically, but it does just as much damage I've learned to tip over furniture or break something out of anger.


----------



## azteca1986

samdew9 said:


> So that Friday I was extremely low and wanting to leave this earth.


Glad you're still with us.

What happened with that Chris guy from her work? Does she still work at the same place?


----------



## samdew9

That's what I'm afraid of Shaggy. When this started, things in the bedroom went crazy. She was doing things that she never did and we were doing it like 4-5 times a week. Then things went south and it was 1-2 times per month. And now out of nowhere, things are back to the way they were before all of this crap started.


----------



## samdew9

Yes, she still works with him. Different depts., but he still works there. I saw him in the a couple days ago. We were walking almost beside each other. He looked at me and saw me and the looked straight ahead. I gave him that I'll beat you to a pulp look and just stared him down until I turned off to here I was going. But he never looked back at me.


----------



## tom67

Does she really need the job for the families income if not she should quit in my opinion.


----------



## samdew9

Unfortunately, yes. She needs that job.


----------



## Shaggy

samdew9 said:


> Unfortunately, yes. She needs that job.


Correction, she needs A job.


----------



## azteca1986

samdew9 said:


> That's what I'm afraid of Shaggy. When this started, *things in the bedroom went crazy. She was doing things that she never did* and we were doing it like 4-5 times a week. Then things went south and it was 1-2 times per month. And now out of nowhere, things are back to the way they were before all of this crap started.


This is a really bad sign, with one very obvious explanation.


----------



## tom67

azteca1986 said:


> This is a really bad sign, with one very obvious explanation.


Sigh- get a VAR please and put one in her car I hope you don't find anything but...


----------



## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

Your life is definitely not over. Your marriage is. 

You are so much better off without her. Start working on yourself and keep busy with the things that make you happy. It's easier to get through this when you are focused on other things and not her.

I was the BS in my first marriage. I left with the baby and started a new life. It only got better as time went on.

Good luck! I know you can get through this. It takes time and doesn't happen overnight.


----------



## thatbpguy

Well, Samdew99, I've read thru the thread and were it me, there is no way I'd stay in all this. You've been lied to, will never know the full truth (and that there tells me you have no basis to ever have faith and trust in your wife again) and while I hope the best for you your marriage is forever altered away from you. 

But people who are betrayed generally will do anything to save the marriage.


----------



## workindad

I agree with the VAR suggestion. Hopefully you will just hear her talking about enjoying reconnecting with you. 

Good luck be vigilent. 

Fwiw when I first became suspicious with my ex she threw me for a loop by going crazy in the bedroom. It was a definite distraction until the truth came out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## treyvion

Back to the "how to get this guy away from my wife" subject line.

We need a thorough writeup and methodology on this subject.

Then what if the OM is an officer of the law, a federal agent, a connected thug? What about these tougher scenarios?


----------



## Dyokemm

He has probably noticed your hostile looks. 

If something is going on between them, he may have coached her to make sure things are more normal around your house so they don't get busted.


----------



## Thorburn

What I haven't heard from you is an explaination of what changed in her from her. In other words what is she now communicating with you? Her physical reaction to you can be explained in any number of ways but without some context from her we are left with speculation.

I would also give you some words of wisdom. You went very dark and were thinking about suicide. No one is worth killing yourself over. I have been there in thought and those dark thoughts when you lose hope are horrible. When your life is wrapped around a person to the point of where you think of kiling yourself because your relationship is broken you really need to look at the scriptures. It is one thing to lose heart and be disappointed and it is entirely differant to lose heart and kill yourself. Many of the writers in the New Testament, Paul and John (two examples) were disappointed with some of the folks they were writing their letters and they were addressing some serious issues, but they did not give up, throw up their hands and say all is lost and them went and killed themselves. They grieved, felt pain, etc but they never lost their faith. They kept pressing on. Your ministry, your self worth, your life is not based upon your wife. I know she is important to you but try to move on from your dependence on her for your self worth. Your faith is not based upon her actions. I know how you feel but I want to encourage you to take this time and reexamine how you value your worth, and I will tell you it is not based upon a woman, or you can go to that dark place again.


----------



## weightlifter

OP I cant buy the VAR for you. I gave you the plan...


----------



## samdew9

I don't know what changed or why. But she has been using "we" a lot when talking about the future. She's also been talking about the future of the church that we are at and things that we can do to improve it. I don't trust it based upon the past few months though.


----------



## samdew9

I know weightlifter, I know. I am having a hard time spending the money on it right now. I know that sounds dumb, but we just don't make a whole heck of a lot of money. It's hard to drop $50-60 without being noticed. I have a couple of things that I am working on selling though and I will get one.


----------



## LostViking

I'm sorry I misread your original post. I thought the OM was from your church. 

Be that as it may, if she is serving as the pastor's wife her behavior must be beyong reproach; and what I was saying earlier is that, if you prove she is cheating, she falls far short of that standard and is damaging your ministry. 

Have you confided in anyone about this?


----------



## tom67

LostViking said:


> I'm sorry I misread your original post. I thought the OM was from your church.
> 
> Be that as it may, if she is serving as the pastor's wife her behavior must be beyong reproach; and what I was saying earlier is that, if you prove she is cheating, she falls far short of that standard and is damaging your ministry.
> 
> Have you confided in anyone about this?


Get the VAR today so you can either confirm or deny anymore cheating you can't live in limbo longterm.


----------



## azteca1986

samdew9 said:


> I've been reading on here a lot lately and it just floored me when I read the signs of a cheating spouse. My wife exhibits almost all of them.


This is from your OP. What's changed since you made it? Her behaviour has just recently changed for the better, what else? Have those signs disappeared?

Look a VAR can be very useful in a lot of cases but I'm not so sure if she's meeting Chris the likely OM at work. 

Is she (still) having an affair? That's the $million question and a VAR will help. What were the other signs? Did you manage to get back on her facebook where she was bad-mouthing you?


----------



## samdew9

I have no idea. I cannot get on her FB at all.


----------



## tom67

samdew9 said:


> I have no idea. I cannot get on her FB at all.


You should have all her passwords there should be no secrets. Ask her tonight if things are going so well she should hide nothing from her husband. If she doesn't give them to you well...you have your answer, sorry.


----------



## azteca1986

tom67 said:


> You should have all her passwords there should be no secrets. Ask her tonight if things are going so well she should hide nothing from her husband. If she doesn't give them to you well...you have your answer, sorry.


It's very simple, if she has nothing to hide she will give them to you, her husband.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

azteca1986 said:


> It's very simple, if she has nothing to hide she will give them to you, her husband.


I'm not going get into everything, but this recently came up concerning my daughter's actions and my wife's inactions.

I flat out told my wife "look, you will be adding software for me to monitor your text messages and hers. " Not a single hesitation. "Okay we will see which one fits in our budget."


----------



## blackdiamonds

I get you don't want to go through a D and how angry and hurt you are about this A your wife is having. The real beef is her cheating. Your anger about it is towards Chris. If he's got a wife/fiancee/girlfriend, tell her. She deserves to hear the truth. Speaking of wife, if you two agree, you both should do MC. Find out if her company has a rule against employees having romantic relationships. If they happen to forbid employees from dating and the like, use that to your advantage. Though you might want to be careful since that could cause not only Chris to potentially lose his job but also your wife too. Install a key logger on her computer to get her emails, chats, Facebook activity and the like. Follow weightlifter's advice and above all DO NOT beat Chris to a pulp! As much as you want to, he's not worth you going to jail.

ETA: If she has a smartphone, use Google Latitude or some other similar map tracking program on both her phone and yours to (stealthily) track her whereabouts. The only thing about Google Latitude is that it asks the person you're trying to locate permission to allow it.


----------



## Chaparral

If she has an iphone or most phones you can use the find my phone feature to track her.


----------



## weightlifter

Badbane knows a way that it wont even show her you have tracked her.


----------



## turnera

Ask a friend to follow her, with a camera.


----------



## lordmayhem

If you go on the cheater forums, one tactic a cheating wife does it so sex her betrayed husband up to get him off the trail if she thinks he suspects. This is a classic cheater move. Problem is, you may be getting sloppy seconds. Are you ok with that?

She's playing the game and waiting for the storm to blow over, yet at the same time, keeping the affair underground - which is why she refuses to be transparent. 

No transparency = Affair still ongoing


----------



## Thor

samdew9 said:


> I don't know what changed or why. But she has been using "we" a lot when talking about the future. She's also been talking about the future of the church that we are at and things that we can do to improve it. I don't trust it based upon the past few months though.


She is scared of the marriage ending. Why? Idk. Perhaps she noticed you pulling away. Perhaps she detected your suspicions. Perhaps she has connected the two and is trying to deflect your suspicions.

Future talk is also a way to gauge your level of commitment. Not that she necessarily is thinking warmly about spending the rest of her life with you, but rather she is wondering how close you might be to bailing out.


----------



## SadandAngry

How does she use facebook? Smartphone or computer?


----------



## samdew9

SadandAngry said:


> How does she use facebook? Smartphone or computer?


Both. But she logs out of FB on her computer and her smartphone is like another appendage.


----------



## weightlifter

samdew9 said:


> Both. But she logs out of FB on her computer and her smartphone is like another appendage.


OH FVCK!

Dude steel yourself


----------



## Thor

samdew9 said:


> Both. But she logs out of FB on her computer and her smartphone is like another appendage.


You gotta keylog that computer. (If it belongs to her employer it may not be legal to do so).


----------



## turnera

samdew9 said:


> Both. But she logs out of FB on her computer and her smartphone is like another appendage.


 Cheaters Script 101


----------



## SadandAngry

Yup, you want to know what's going on, keylog the computer. You can get some decent programs on a trial basis. Never, ever reveal your sources. Ever, no matter what.

You'd be within reason to demand full access to passwords and devices, but you'd probably just drive whatever she is hiding deeper underground. So keylog, find out what you're dealing with, then make a plan, so you are working from a point of strength. Knowledge is power.


----------



## BashfulB

samdew9 said:


> Both. But she logs out of FB on her computer and her smartphone is like another appendage.


I would take that computer and rip its guts out. I would take that smartphone and throw it in the toilet. 

Why do you let your wife treat you like this?


----------



## Chaparral

You can get a var at bestbuy/walmart for $50, sony that works great. Your relationship has to be worth that. Hopefully it will be good news.


----------



## Hoosier

One of the reasons she is holding onto you is she is not ready to divorce YET. in my case my xw and the OM were putting money away to have when she left me. My finding out only moved the process forward faster, your w may be planning as well.


----------



## weightlifter

DO NOT CONFRONT OP!!!! You do not want to be RDMU!!! If she goes underground it is going to be 100 times harder.

Best Buy for the Var.
Walmart of the velcro.
Keylogger. Webwatcher has been used successfully. Its like 100 tho. Course he could do the free trial get the passwords then dump it before the trial ends. Warning about the loggers. THEY TAKE TIME TO INSTALL AROUND YOUR VIRUS protection software and configure.

OP. So sorry man but this thread took an ugly ugly turn when you mentioned phone on the hip and FB suddenly passworded. Steel yourself. You are ironman.


----------



## workindad

Definitely buy the vars. easy to use and effective. If you can key log a computer more power to you. 

This does not look good 

Take care
WD
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

BashfulBull said:


> I would take that computer and rip its guts out. I would take that smartphone and throw it in the toilet.
> 
> Why do you let your wife treat you like this?


 There was a guy whose wife wouldn't leave the house and wouldn't stop cheating. Never let go of her phone. She knew he knew, and didn't care. So one day he grabbed her phone and RAN. Ran about 2 or 3 blocks away, and then sat down and downloaded all her texts/calls to OM so he'd have his proof for the court. Then walked back home and handed the phone back to her, grinning ear to ear.


----------



## SadandAngry

turnera said:


> There was a guy whose wife wouldn't leave the house and wouldn't stop cheating. Never let go of her phone. She knew he knew, and didn't care. So one day he grabbed her phone and RAN. Ran about 2 or 3 blocks away, and then sat down and downloaded all her texts/calls to OM so he'd have his proof for the court. Then walked back home and handed the phone back to her, grinning ear to ear.


Any bet that the wife's phone is password protected, and op has no idea what it is?


----------



## turnera

meh, if it is, I'd take it somewhere and let a professional open it.


----------



## Squeakr

turnera said:


> There was a guy whose wife wouldn't leave the house and wouldn't stop cheating. Never let go of her phone. She knew he knew, and didn't care. So one day he grabbed her phone and RAN. Ran about 2 or 3 blocks away, and then sat down and downloaded all her texts/calls to OM so he'd have his proof for the court. Then walked back home and handed the phone back to her, grinning ear to ear.


I am not a lawyer, but what he found would more than likely be in-admissable in court as it was gained through what is essentially theft. He now had the proof and knowledge, but he couldn't use it against her. It is no different than putting a VAR in her car and recording without her knowledge or consent, thus making it in-admissable as evidence (and unless he lives in one of the states that punishes cheaters during the divorce, it would serve no purpose anyway).


----------



## turnera

Nevertheless, it was enough of a fear to end her affiar, IIRC.


----------



## SadSamIAm

Squeakr said:


> I am not a lawyer, but what he found would more than likely be in-admissable in court as it was gained through what is essentially theft. He now had the proof and knowledge, but he couldn't use it against her. It is no different than putting a VAR in her car and recording without her knowledge or consent, thus making it in-admissable as evidence (and unless he lives in one of the states that punishes cheaters during the divorce, it would serve no purpose anyway).


The reason people use VARs and snoop isn't to collect evidence for court. It is to find out what their cheating/lieing spouse is up to.

Most states are 'no-fault' anyway!


----------



## Squeakr

SadSamIAm said:


> The reason people use VARs and snoop isn't to collect evidence for court. It is to find out what their cheating/lieing spouse is up to.
> 
> Most states are 'no-fault' anyway!


:iagree:

However, people still use them to gather evidence to expose and reveal to others and not just for checking reasons.


----------



## SadSamIAm

Squeakr said:


> :iagree:
> 
> However, people still use them to gather evidence to expose and reveal to others and not just for checking reasons.


So in-admissability is really not a factor.


----------



## Squeakr

SadSamIAm said:


> So in-admissability is really not a factor.


It was in the quote I originally tagged and replied to. The poster implied that the phone should be taken and downloaded (stolen) to get the necessary evidence as that is what the person in their story did to get the ". I was just stating that it would more than likely not be admissible, just like using a VAR in the car wouldn't be.


----------



## Woodchuck

Squeakr said:


> It was in the quote I originally tagged and replied to. The poster implied that the phone should be taken and downloaded (stolen) to get the necessary evidence as that is what the person in their story did to get the ". I was just stating that it would more than likely not be admissible, just like using a VAR in the car wouldn't be.


Screw admissibility, the main thing is to expose the affair in a way the WW cannot deny or lie her way out of...

I would encourage the OP to download a key logger and get his wife's face book password, and everything else she is doing on the computer.....

If she is clean, so much the better...

the woodchuck


----------



## treyvion

workindad said:


> Definitely buy the vars. easy to use and effective. If you can key log a computer more power to you.
> 
> This does not look good
> 
> Take care
> WD
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Someone said that their var wasn't getting that much info, because the wife listened to the radio in the car alot...

But others are saying these Sony vars can get well over 25 hours record time on a lithium battery. The situation as it was described to me said that the battery was at 70% after 25 hours of record time... Led me to believe you could collect the var monthly to analyze the contents.


----------



## Vanguard

You know she's cheating. Why do you need to prove anything. Divorce her now and make as much of an impact as you can. 

Otherwise she will continue to use you while you provide for her until she gets her things in order enough to leave you. Dude don't let her do this to you.


----------



## weightlifter

I have heard car vars. 
The radio is annoying and hard to reduce but I was able to work around them without mods.
Seat springs are annoying and medium to reduce.
Engine noise is easy on long stretches and hard on short stretches of road for reduction.
DONT go below 44K bit rate. The higher the bit rate the more you can do with the recording. 44K is nice quality without GIANT files.

RDMU ones were 44K. Using my special filter sets I was able to get whispers at 40 feet. Voices, oddly, were muddy.
I use earphones they help alot. 15 dollar nakamichi.


----------



## samdew9

I got the VAR. I'm gonna check out of here for a while. At least until I figure out what the heck is going on.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

samdew9 said:


> I got the VAR. I'm gonna check out of here for a while. At least until I figure out what the heck is going on.


samdew9,

Make sure you get the finer points of using a VAR from here before you check out for a spell.

2 VARs are better than one and so on.

If you do find that your wife has done, or is doing something, EA, PA, etc., make sure you have a VAR(s) in place if you're going to confront her. Then leave the house/apt.

If she calls anyone after you leave, you may get allot of answers from the VAR(s).

Good luck.


----------



## weightlifter

GL Sam. Need tech info. You know where I am.


----------



## chazmataz3

our prayers are with you.


----------



## weightlifter

My heart sank when he said she wouldnt let go of the phone.

Please oh please letnthis on not follow the script. I so want to be wrong.


----------



## Rugs

Not reading this whole thread again but why have VAR's taken so long?

C'mon.


----------



## BashfulB

Rugs said:


> Not reading this whole thread again but why have VAR's taken so long?
> 
> C'mon.


He's po.


----------



## Rugs

Ohhhhh. Thanks.


----------



## samdew9

What is PO????? Nothing on the VAR front yet. Although in another post I asked about finding a keylogger. Well this chris guy is a computer guy. And for about the same amount of time as this crap has been going on I have been suspecting that someone is hacking my laptop. In fact I had a laptop that just quit working for no reason at all back in December. Which brings me to my next hunch. That day that I was very low, I said how my wifes behavior changed for the better around me. Well it just so happens that the day I said that I got the VAR on here, her behavior went south again. So I am betting that the pile of crap is spying on me!!!!!! So I doubt that the VAR will ever turn up anything.


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## samdew9

Another question. And I hope that he is spying on me. This piece of trash chris is also in the army reserves. I am wondering if I could get him in trouble in that respect at all???? He is a single guy so I can't tell a wife/girlfriend. But maybe a call to his CO??? And yes, my wife is all about patriotism and the military...more than ever. And you can guess when it started.


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## weightlifter

Go to his CO with a just that? Dude wives shoot husbands down with more than that. Let alone a stranger coming into a command.

you have a suspicion. Might try seeing if your comp has a keylogger.

How would you know if someone has put a keylogger on your computer? - Yahoo! UK & Ireland Answers

scan your pc with anti keylogger app like zemana. more info:
http://www.monitoring-softwares.com/how-…

Hi spyware is not usually picked up by anti virus, also has stealth mode so stops once you run a scan to protect itself. Also they as a norm are password protected to stop removal if found. I was hacked remotely a few years ago so more than adept in how to remove and defend myself as much as possible now. There is a programme with a 15 day ull working trial and it has the only task of monitoring the kernel which is where keyloggers hide and prey. It does not run a scan as is pointless, it watches your clipboard webcam and also has a firewall monitor too. Once have installed it, run your email programmes and especially your webcam as is where keyloggers target mainly so easily traced as has to do its job and copy your sites and record your cam etc. The programme i send is also able to once found a keylogger able to contain it and efficiently force it's uninstall even if password protected If need further help message me as nps i hate people who use spyware! Zemana AntiLogger - The #1 Privacy Protection Software


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## Shaggy

Spyware on the comp can also safely be bypassed if you are technical by downloading a copy of Linux and making a bootable linux install that you run off USB thumb drive.

You just connect it and reboot when you want to go into fully safe mode.


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## AlphaHalf

Reformat your hard drive on your PC. (Reinstall the operating system back to the original installation). 

Set your router back to the default setting and reconfigure the network with all new passwords for your router and PC.

If you know the OM zip code of his home, then his reserve unit is supposed to be within 50 miles of that zip code. One weekend a month and two weeks in the summertime he should be reporting in to his unit totaling 38 days a year.


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## turnera

Or just take your computers to a real computer place and have them set it up for you.


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## BashfulB

Po....poor.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BashfulB

Why don't you just grab your sack and walk up to your wife and tell her you know she is cheating with Chris and that you are divorcing her? State it as a fact. Don't argue with her and don't let her try to talk you out of it. Move your stuff into another room or ask her to move. She will most likely get nasty angry and even violent and that right there will be a the proof you need. 

Sounds like she has found this thread and is reading it and is heading you off at the pass. She's smarter than you my friend. So it's best to just get mean now.

Oh and don't spew any false doctrine back at me about not being justified to divorce. I've been a Christian all my life and have done a ton of studying and no way Jesus would expect you to stay with a woman like this. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The Middleman

BashfulBull said:


> Why don't you just grab your sack and walk up to your wife and tell her you know she is cheating with Chris and that you are divorcing her? State it as a fact. Don't argue with her and don't let her try to talk you out of it. Move your stuff into another room or ask her to move. She will most likely get nasty angry and even violent and that right there will be a the proof you need.
> 
> Sounds like she has found this thread and is reading it and is heading you off at the pass. She's smarter than you my friend. So it's best to just get mean now.
> 
> Oh and don't spew any false doctrine back at me about not being justified to divorce. I've been a Christian all my life and have done a ton of studying and no way Jesus would expect you to stay with a woman like this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Triple like on this post!


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## Chaparral

samdew9 said:


> Another question. And I hope that he is spying on me. This piece of trash chris is also in the army reserves. I am wondering if I could get him in trouble in that respect at all???? He is a single guy so I can't tell a wife/girlfriend. But maybe a call to his CO??? And yes, my wife is all about patriotism and the military...more than ever. And you can guess when it started.


Could he be using his training /military equip to spy on you? What does he do in the military?


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## samdew9

He very well could be. His twitter page shows a pic of his certificate from fort Gordon signal regiment as well as a degree from itt tech in computer networking and IT. 
So, bashfulbull, she is not smarter than me. This prick "friend" of hers is a computer guy that is a complete loser living with some relative, working at "big chain retail store" changing oil, that spends his free time gaming (even is on a gaming team). But, since I don't know about computers that much I guess that makes me dumb. Oh wait, no it doesn't. It just means that I never have taken the time to learn about that crap. So either keep your condescending comments (I'm not even going to address the false doctrine comment) to yourself, or STAY OFF OF MY FREAKING THREAD!!!!!!!!!


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## samdew9

Plus, I have confronted her with it and asked her if she was cheating because she exhibits almost every sign of someone that is having an affair. If I had solid proof, I would confront her without delay. But I only have a strong gut feeling and a few other things that only prove that they have included sex in their conversations. But like I said, I don't have any solid proof...yet. It's a little tougher because this is a new area for us and anyone that I could have help me is in the church. So I cannot talk to them because I would lose my job. (That is a fact that I know) Whereas she has plenty of people to cover for her at her job. In fact whenever I go in there they all look at me with a look of disgust or pity.


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## bryanp

Have you thought about insisting on a polygraph? If she says no then it is a deal breaker. Why would you want to live like this?

If her workmates are looking at you with disgust or pity then this has got to be hard to take. You only have one life to live so please don't waste on someone who does not appreciate it and is in to playing games. Good luck.


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## turnera

samdew9 said:


> Plus, I have confronted her with it and asked her if she was cheating because she exhibits almost every sign of someone that is having an affair.


Was this before or after you came here and we told you not to do ANYTHING until you had proof?


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## weightlifter

Oh please be before not after. 

Im good at this grim task. Many will vouch for me. Scary good at it. Sigh. I look at me now vs a year ago. YIKES I was beta. Still exhibit it sometimes... Workin on it.

Anyway OP. I'm praying for you.


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## Chaparral

Have you read MMSLP?


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## Thor

samdew9 said:


> It's a little tougher because this is a new area for us and anyone that I could have help me is in the church. So I cannot talk to them because I would lose my job. (That is a fact that I know)


I understand this and know that it is not a minor issue. However, don't let it become a long term obstacle to living a decent life and having a happy home for your kids.

Being out of work is temporary. Teaching your kids to have dysfunctional marriages is forever.

Try to think outside the box. Which is really difficult when you're stressed. Are there people from where you used to live who are safe for you to talk to? Can you use some personal contacts to help you with things like getting your computer scanned for spyware? (someone on TAM does that kind of thing and may be able to do it remotely for you). Can you look for another job right now which is a back up plan in case you lose this job?


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## CarrieOn

I can't believe there are churches that would fire someone -unless- he stays with a wife who is cheating on him. Oh yeah wait a minutes guess I can and that is why I don't go to church. I can't believe though that someone would want to keep working at that church or be loyal to the church when clearly the church doesn't care about that person's pain or life. Would they require OP to stay married to his wife if she was physically abusing him? Because cheating is definitely emotional abuse. 

OP I know you are in pain and upset but you are not listening to anyone here and instead getting angry at those trying to help. You don't seem to realize that you need to switch things up majorly if you want your marriage to stand a chance.


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## AlphaHalf

> So I thought about making an anonymous email to the large dept stores home office and try to get him fired, but it just seems evil. My wife and I are both christians...well until he came along. Now she doesn't want anything to do with church. It just seems like if I can get him gone, then everything would be better.


Evil would be shooting him in the face, but informing his boss about him being an accomplice to ruining your family is a step in exposing and protecting your marriage. The real underline issue is your "Christian" wife purposely putting another man before you and having inappropriate relations. Getting the current OM out of the picture is just a quick and temporary fix. 

You need to show your wife that you wont tolerate her behavior PERIOD. There is no room for/excuse for/justification for discussing sex with another man/woman in a marriage against your wishes. Especially with the opposite sex who your already suspicious of.

If your scared to make move then prepare to lose. You should make it clear to her that you are going to divorce her because of her lies and deception even if that's not what you want it. You cant force her to respect you and the Marriage, she must be "Willing" to reconcile her actions not you trying convince her by playing nice.

If her coworkers are looking at you with disgust its because of your Wife telling them BullStuff to begin with. No Respect, No Trust. Why are you hanging on to this women. Protect yourself and get your Stuff together, And be ready to draw the the line in the sand or cut her loose. If you explain to your job whats going on they'll understand and forgive, after all its the Christian thing to do.


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## CH

bryanp said:


> Have you thought about insisting on a polygraph? If she says no then it is a deal breaker. Why would you want to live like this?


Some people have to learn the hard way, no matter how much you tell them they believe what they want to. Some people have to hold on to that perfect picture of their spouse, hoping and praying for the best.

It's that hope and love that blinds them. It's that hope that blinded my wife for 2 months before it was so obvious that she just couldn't deny it anymore. And it's that hope from the BS that allows a WS to keep on cheating.

WS words to his SO and the OW/OM. I'm pretty sure it's very easy to guess which words goes to which person.

You're crazy, it's so stupid, why would I do that to the love of my life, I'm with you aren't I?

I love you, you're so beautiful, you're the best thing that happened to me, I wish I would have met you before XXX.

No matter how much to love someone, NEVER put them on a pedestal, they should always, ALWAYS be next to you, never above or below you.


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## sirdano

Originally Posted by samdew9 
I would also lose my job as I am now a minister.

This I wonder about with all your bad language you are saying on here? How can you shepard your flock with that and the mind set you have.

If you are really a minister then confront the OM. There is no harm in that and be civil.

Ask your wife to be fully open with you. Ask to have her facebook account unlocked, phone, email etc. If she will not ask her what does she have to hide? 

And be open with her tell her you are feeling that something is bothering you with this guy.

I think you also wrote that your wife could not quit her job becuase of pay? Well what is more important wife or pay. Maybe you should pray for help


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## lordmayhem

CH said:


> Some people have to learn the hard way, no matter how much you tell them they believe what they want to. Some people have to hold on to that perfect picture of their spouse, hoping and praying for the best.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

Many, many betrayed spouses that first come here simply do not listen and are in fear. They have to learn the hard way. It's rare when a BS comes here and follows the combined wisdom of the forum, from all the BSs who have suffered through the same thing and walked in their shoes. 

They have to suffer more pain and agony before their eyes will even begin to open. It's sad, but true. This thread is already 14 pages long and counting. When a thread gets this long and the BS is either unwilling to do what's needed, or is too scared, then it's time to bail. You can only be advise to do the same thing only so many times. :banghead:

Good luck samdew9, you're going to need it. Hopefully you will find the strength to do what you need to do and not continue to live in fear. With that, I'm outtie.


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## Chaparral

The worst part is how often the op is suspicious, can't bring themselves to do something and while they hesitate the spouse gets bedded for the first time.

In this case the op's ministry and his wife's job is more important than the marriage. Although that's on such shakey ground, it looks like the next phase will be picking up the pieces.


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## Thound

sirdano said:


> Originally Posted by samdew9
> I would also lose my job as I am now a minister.
> 
> This I wonder about with all your bad language you are saying on here? How can you shepard your flock with that and the mind set you have.
> 
> If you are really a minister then confront the OM. There is no harm in that and be civil.
> 
> Ask your wife to be fully open with you. Ask to have her facebook account unlocked, phone, email etc. If she will not ask her what does she have to hide?
> 
> And be open with her tell her you are feeling that something is bothering you with this guy.
> 
> I think you also wrote that your wife could not quit her job becuase of pay? Well what is more important wife or pay. Maybe you should pray for help


Just because he is a minister doesnt mean he is not human. Apostle Paul said he sinned daily. I forget our pastor is human as well at times. We all have our short comings. That is what Gods grace is all about. I'm not responding angrily, I'm just saying.


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## Chaparral

What denominations would oust a preacher, minister etc. Because their spouse committed adultery? I would think it would be more likely if it were known the minister knew something was going on and did nothing.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Ah the judgmental attitude of religion, it can be irritating. You can kick someone out, faulting them for their marriage problems, when The Bible states divorce is fine under certain circumstances.

Then, he must not be a real minister because he uses a few so called "bad words" and hasn't confronted the OM. You know because ministers can't get angry, make mistakes and sheppard a flock.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Ah the judgmental attitude of religion, it can be irritating. You can kick someone out, faulting them for their marriage problems, when The Bible states divorce is fine under certain circumstances.
> 
> Then, he must not be a real minister because he uses a few so called "bad words" and hasn't confronted the OM. You know because ministers can't get angry, make mistakes and sheppard a flock.


Someone's god will not keep their spouse faithful to their wedding vows. Will not stop an already cheating spouse from being unfaithful. Will not keep them from cheating again, or again and again.

Only your spouse can make those decisions. We can try to influence them, but ultimately that choice is theirs and theirs alone to make.

Also, I think we see allot of ministers and the likes on here because they are some of the biggest "nice guys" out there.

I'm not religious, but I still hold many of the clergy in the highest regards for how they treat their fellow human beings.


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## weightlifter

Chaparral said:


> The worst part is how often the op is suspicious, can't bring themselves to do something and while they hesitate the spouse gets bedded for the first time.
> 
> In this case the op's ministry and his wife's job is more important than the marriage. Although that's on such shakey ground, it looks like the next phase will be picking up the pieces.


Pretty sure he has already bedded her.

Sorry I call em as I see em.


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## samdew9

Well, I haven't been able to prove anything with the VAR, but she still has the puke as a friend on facebook, she still talks about him from time to time, and all of the evidence is there even though it is circumstantial. I just cannot trust her. I am sick of it all. I am done living like this. She won't repent of all of this garbage and come back to God as well as commit to our marriage and family. So I have an appointment with a lawyer next week and am going to file for divorce. I'm hoping that it will wake her up, but if not I will have no choice but to move forward with it. It sounds like I have a great chance to end up with no less than 50/50 custody with little to no child support on my end.


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## tom67

I hope you speak to the church elders and don't lose your job.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## samdew9

I will talk to them after she gets the papers. I want to see how she reacts first.


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## turnera

samdew9 said:


> So I have an appointment with a lawyer next week and am going to file for divorce. I'm hoping that it will wake her up


If you're doing it to wake her up, tell her NOW that you're going to file. Maybe it will be the wakeup call she needs, and it might save you the retainer fee.


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## The Middleman

I'm sorry you need to go down this road, but it's a road you must travel. I hope you get the desired result, whether that is getting your wife back on the right path or inner peace without her.


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## weightlifter

Sam. Let me see where I can help you. You initially had a certain store down and I told you to remove it as too specific right? THAT is you right? 

Understand I help alot of people at the same time. No offense. People blur together to me.

I know you are doing VARS.
How many? Where?
You have access to her email?
You have access to text and cell phone usage?
Has anyone seen what she does on her lunch hours?
Have you GPS-ed her car?

There are not a huge number of places to have closet quickies in that particular store. Not impossible but certain locations in those stores are out in the open and not in back rooms there.

*Random idea i want to run by the whole group:

Random thought. RIGHT BEFORE you file bring up the polygraph and mention Chris by name and tell her you now have information that they have been seen together.*

What does the group think?


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## turnera

Why not?


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## badbane

Sam have you tried to access the phone records to determine what his phone number is. Also facebook can be hacked pretty easily you need access to her email accounts. I would approach her about getting access to her email. Make up a plausible story about wanting to sign her up for a magazine as a surprise but you need access to her email to manage the subscription and turn it over to her once you bought it. Once you have the email address you simply can do a password reset and you are in. It will tip her off that you got into her FB account but she won't know until you have had plenty of time to go through her private fb messages. it sounds like she doesn't know how unsecure FB is. But another important thing to look at is hacking into computers isn't like it used to be. IF you have you firewall up and don't use bad browsing habits then it's pretty difficult and time consuming to try and crack a system. So I doubt you are being hacked unless you wife is helping him hack you. 
And most crackers and hackers don't want your computer to just stop working. They want it to stay up and running while they steal your Identity, cc number, unless it is a little punk that likes to mess with people.

I would caution you in that you wife might have figured out you are using this site. So I would see if the Mod would move this to the private section. Also you said the guy works at a walmart or something. I would look into how many days she went to walmart by the charges on your bank account. People usually only go to the same store twice a week. Groceries and knickknacks. If she is running to Walmart every other day then that's more evidence. I wouldn't tip your hand now because she might get paranoid and then delete everything. That's the last thing you want given what little you know and how easily she could sweep it all under the rug. Good luck if you need any help let me know.


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## samdew9

They actually work in the same store. That's how they met. He worked in her dept. He then got transferred to another dept. But it is the next one over from hers. I found out that he's at guard for 2 weeks now.


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## turnera

Say what? Why haven't you gone to her HR and told them?!


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## samdew9

I'll save that for later. If the D goes through and she gives me trouble I'll go to her HR. But I'm just going to see how it goes just showing her that I am willing to go through with the D.


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