# For those who do believe in opposite sex friendships: How do yours work?



## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Yes, a lot of TAMers are against this notion. The reasons why have been laid out thoroughly, and extensively.

But I'd like to hear from TAMers who do have opposite sex friends. How do those friendships work in the context of marriage? Are there strict boundaries? Do you treat them similarly as you do your same sex friends? How does your spouse feel? 

Any insight at all is welcome.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

The beauty in this TAM website is that it pulls together different views from varying backgrouds, based on personal experiences.

My wife and I do have opposite sex friends. 
A whole lot.
I have never felt threatened by her male friends , because I personally know most of them, and they respect and admire our marriage. 
Most of all I trust her.
The question of whether or not that trust is misplaced ,does not arise because there is absolutely no evidence to support it.
Does she trust me?
Well I have a few close female friends. I have lots of female acquaintances because of the nature of our business.
Sometimes my wife answers my phone, because we both work together. So a client or acquaintance may call and my wife answers, and takes the relevant information.
A running joke we have is the surprise in their voices when she answers. 
Sometimes after when I meet them they might say;
" I didn't know you were married?"
To which I answer:
" Yes, 17 long , wonderful years,and still enjoying it.."


Do we have boundaries?
Of course we do. Our marital vows are the boundaries.
Beside that,we don't go to clubs and bars with our OSF, unless we are both present.
And, we both love doing sport bars.

I know others here may disagree, because of their bad experience.
But so far,
I have not had any such bad experiences.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Well, my husband and I both have OSF. However, we aren't close to them. Considering our history with this, it's better this way. We have the understanding that if either of us is uncomfortable for any reason, we discuss it. Sometimes it ends with the friendship ending. Sometimes, it simply ends with not being alone with the OSF. There is only one woman I specifically told him "no more" about, and that was the EA. Same with mine. Otherwise, the OSF are friends of the marriage, but not CLOSE friends.


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## looji (Sep 20, 2012)

I have been married for four years, I'm 36 and my wife is 30. I have a very close female colleague (I work in the emergency services) who is my designated partner at work. My wife knows this woman although they only meet socially at my work functions.

This woman is the same age as my wife and has just gotten engaged, her fiance worked on my shift several years ago and it was me who introduced them. I know more about her than her fiance does and she would admit that. She in turn knows more about me than my wife does. 

We have been close friends right from the start. While we have both been honest and admitted that we are attracted to eachother, we have never gotten physical. We simply accept that it's not wrong to be attracted to eachother, it's only wrong to act on it. We cope by making an obvious joke of it and having pictures of our other half pinned to the dash of our vehicle. 

It is possible to be close friends with the opposite sex, just be honest about the natural human instinct which compels men and women to evaluate everyone as a potential mate.


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## C123 (Jun 20, 2012)

These types of friendships are possible, but there must be serious boundaries. I don't care what anyone says, men are men and women are women and there is always a very good chance that friendships could turn into affairs in very short order. It's just the way God made us. I'm attracted to women. My wife is attracted to men. It would be naive of me to think that my wife couldn't be attracted to another man who is a friend of hers and even more naive for me to think that one of her OS friendships couldn't turn into an affair. This is especially true if I'm not giving her what she needs in our marriage and if there aren't appropriate boundaries.

I also don't think it would be outside the realm of possibility for one of my friendships with women to cross a boundary into affair territory. That's why you have to be very careful with these friendships. They're possible, but you have to set boundaries for yourself and live by those boundaries.

The worst situation is when you are enjoying a friendship with someone of the opposite sex and it becomes clear THEY have a thing for YOU. Your ego is happy and you feel good because it's very flattering but you have to live by those boundaries you've set.

I ultimately think people need to be honest about these types of friendships and make sure they are arms-length friendships. I've seen too many marriages ruined by OS friendships that result in the "friends" banging in the back of a car somewhere!


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

I've always had close female friends. When I was younger I had more, but overtime that naturally shifted. 

I know the potential pitfalls of being in a very close friendship with a woman. I know because I've only had one female best friend in my entire life, and I now have sex regularly with her, and she wears a silver and blue diamond wedding band on her finger. So I've been there, done that.

So while I've never had another female "best friend", I have, and do, have real friendships with women. Some of them I'd deem unattractive (by my personal likes), and others are drop dead gorgeous (I'm an actor, it's an occupational hazard ). 

My wife and I never put boundaries on friendships (well save one), and we do not now. Our motto is, and always has been, full trust. We both believe that if one of us ever cheats, as improbable as that feels to both of us, it'll be because we chose to cheat. It won't be because of an opposite sex friend, or anyone else's fault. It's us. Period. We are responsible for our marriage, and nobody else. The way we define our relationship (and again I am not speaking for anyone else) has to allow for total freedom and trust. Anything less, and we'd be living in the kind of relationship that neither one of us wants to be in.

Having said that, what is interesting is that there are natural boundaries that exist. We both are fully allowed to spend one-on-one time with OS friends, and we do occasionally, but not nearly as frequently as we do with our SS friends. Neither one of us has taken a trip with an OS friend, like we have with SS ones. I don't have a single female best friend, but while my wife does have one male best friend, almost all the other "best friends" are of the same sex. It seems that divisions, and boundaries, happened naturally, without either one of us needing to put our foot down (again, except that one time).


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

IMHO, like every other issue, this one comes down to degrees.

My wife and I both have OSFs. Neither of the consider them "best friends". After me, my wife's closest friends are all women. After her, my closest friends are all men. 

I have some female friends, but I won't exactly confide in them. And same with my wife. We might get their opinion on something in order to do something nice for each other (get a woman's perspective on a gift for my wife for instance) but that's the "deepest" we go.

I would have a hard time if my wife's BEST friend in life was a guy. And likewise, I know she'd always be jealous if my BEST friend was a woman.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

I actually have a few male friends, most from work. We don't socialize alone outside of work, and H has met them. Other men at work are only acquaintances, so no issue. I also have a long time male friend who I have introduced my H to. We do not go have any alone time either, and if I do see him it's only with H. This friend is very careful not to step on any toes.

H had 3 female friends; two had to be turfed because they ended up wanting more than just friends although at the time, he insisted til he was blue in the face that I was wrong. They both ended up proving me right without any help at all from me!. The third is a married former work colleague of his that I have met and that we now socialize with (rarely due to distance) as couples.

The boundaries are such that we don't spend alone time with members of the opposite sex. To be honest, I'd feel funny doing so. I would probably never have a male 'best friend'. I don't even have a female best friend! H is my best friend...


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

We have OSF's and they have never been an issue for us. My husband has more female friends, but it has never bothered me. Most of them he met in college. I worked straight out of high school and had a kid, so our paths were different.

We're one anothers best friend. Neither of our OSF's know something about our spouse that would be considered private information just between us. I think that's important. It keeps the intimacy between us special... if our friends knew all our personal business it takes away from our relationship together. Ours is supposed to be closer than that of our friendships.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

CandieGirl said:


> H had 3 female friends; two had to be turfed because they ended up wanting more than just friends although at the time, he insisted til he was blue in the face that I was wrong. They both ended up proving me right without any help at all from me!. The third is a married former work colleague of his that I have met and that we now socialize with (rarely due to distance) as couples.


Yup, been there, but the opposite. My wife had a couple close male friends that I knew were attracted to her. She swore up, down, and sideways that they didn't feel that. way. And just like you, without having to interfere, they made their feelings known one by one. 

I do have female friends that I suspect were attracted to me, but they never made a move. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I talk about my wife so glowingly, and so frequently, that they didn't see an in road?


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## wiigirl (Jun 14, 2012)

jaquen said:


> Yup, been there, but the opposite. My wife had a couple close male friends that I knew were attracted to her. She swore up, down, and sideways that they didn't feel that. way. And just like you, without having to interfere, they made their feelings known one by one.
> 
> I do have female friends that I suspect were attracted to me, but they never made a move. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I talk about my wife so glowingly, and so frequently, that they didn't see an in road?


I really think thats the key! Talk about your significant other....let them know they are in your life. Just talking about the one you love will set boundaries.








_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

jaquen said:


> Yup, been there, but the opposite. My wife had a couple close male friends that I knew were attracted to her. She swore up, down, and sideways that they didn't feel that. way. And just like you, without having to interfere, they made their feelings known one by one.
> 
> I do have female friends that I suspect were attracted to me, but they never made a move. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I talk about my wife so glowingly, and so frequently, that they didn't see an in road?


And maybe they are genuinely just good women, who wouldn't do something like that, as it would certainly end the friendship? Or is it that they know they haven't a chance, since you speak of your wife so much/glowingly? Either way, if they were coniving man thieves (they do exist!), your wife (and you) would have picked up on it. 

I suspect also, that my male friend who doesn't want to step on my husband's toes, also may feel more than friendship, although he has never acted on it. He backed way off once I met and married my man....and over all the years we've known one another, he always would tell me "When you meet someone, I'll leave you alone.". Last time we saw him, he took H's number...solidifying their relationship to one another, maybe...


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

jaquen said:


> Yes, a lot of TAMers are against this notion. The reasons why have been laid out thoroughly, and extensively.
> 
> But I'd like to hear from TAMers who do have opposite sex friends. How do those friendships work in the context of marriage? Are there strict boundaries? Do you treat them similarly as you do your same sex friends? How does your spouse feel?
> 
> Any insight at all is welcome.


I don't tend to get along with girls all that much. I'm a fairly drama-free person, and for some reason the dramatic girls always like to attach to me. I have a few close girlfriends, and then a few guy friends. 

I have one close guy friend who I talk to alot. He's a writer, I'm a writer, so we often shoot ideas back and forth, and even write together sometimes. He lives in another state, so our friendship is usually over facebook chat. We've talked maybe twice in the phone, and that is something I don't often feel comfortable doing. Don't ask why. I don't know. 

I've known this guy for years and years, and my husband knows it. The guy is very nice and respectful, and has never done anything to even remotely threaten my marriage. My husband has no issues with the friendship whatsoever. 

My husband also has a lot of female friends. He was a cheer coach for all All-star nationally ranked team, and was surrounded by girls all the time. Some of them he's still in touch with, and they talk every once in a while. We both decided that the boundaries we have would be mutual...if it applies to me, it applies to him. As soon as either one of us is uncomfortable with the other's friendships, then things need to cool down.

But nothing of the kind has ever happened. He got married to me and the cheer girls kind of...went away. Which is odd. I'm nice.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Even though we each have them, I must admit that in general, I don't agree with the whole fight for opsex friendships...you know, the "no one is going to control who I am friends with!" type of argument we sometimes see here. 

I also have to say that I wouldn't be impressed if H suddenly had a new female friend in his life. I would probably be suspect of her. Does that make any sense? At the same time, I highly doubt that I'll be bringing any new males into our lives, either. Since marriage, I am just not befriending men in the same way I would have as a single gal.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

jaquen said:


> Yup, been there, but the opposite. My wife had a couple close male friends that I knew were attracted to her. She swore up, down, and sideways that they didn't feel that. way. And just like you, without having to interfere, they made their feelings known one by one.
> 
> *I do have female friends that I suspect were attracted to me, but they never made a move. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I talk about my wife so glowingly, and so frequently, that they didn't see an in road?*


^^^^
This works EVERYTIME for me. 
Whenever a female I consider a friend or acquaintance starts acting all clingy and stupid,I simply start telling them that my wife and I are still having great sex, and I' not interested.

My wife on the other hand at one time refused to see my point of view when I told her I didn't like one of her male friends, because he didn't respect me. 
She thought he was " nice." Turned out that he was sexing another man's wife from the neighbourhood,and it created a big stink.
She finally understood what I was saying all along.
But she was mature enough to admit that she was wrong.
I believe in self governance.

Lots of women hit on me. Lots of men hit on my wife.
Does it feel nice?
Of course it does.
But it does not affect my brain chemistry to the point where I need to get compliments from these women in order to feel good about myself , and thus * feel * attracted to them.

I don't need their compliments to feel good about myself.
My wife sees me naked every day,and she does a good job at making me feel good about myself.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> I've known this guy for years and years, and my husband knows it. The guy is very nice and respectful, and has never done anything to even remotely threaten my marriage.* My husband has no issues with the friendship whatsoever. *


^^^^^^^^
This right here is important.
It says that you respect your husband's opinion, and he trusts you.
You both discussed it and he has accepted your friendship with this guy.


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## in my tree (Jun 9, 2012)

jaquen said:


> Yup, been there, but the opposite. My wife had a couple close male friends that I knew were attracted to her. She swore up, down, and sideways that they didn't feel that. way. And just like you, without having to interfere, they made their feelings known one by one.
> 
> I do have female friends that I suspect were attracted to me, but they never made a move. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I talk about my wife so glowingly, and so frequently, that they didn't see an in road?


Jacquen - that is a very good and smart way to let others know "it is not happening with you" without having to actually say the words. 

I had a couple of male friends when my ex and I were together but as with many other stories here, things ended when they went too far. My ex did not have any female friends, just acquaintances and I never felt threatened. I dont know how I would have felt if he had wanted to hang out with them without me there. I might have been fine or maybe a little jealous but I am not easily threatened.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Caribbean Man said:


> ^^^^
> This works EVERYTIME for me.
> Whenever a female I consider a friend or acquaintance starts acting all clingy and stupid,*I simply start telling them that my wife and I are still having great sex*, and I' not interested.


No way would I ever say anything of the sort to another man; way inappropriate! Why discuss your sex life with anyone other than your partner, or a therapist?


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

jaquen said:


> Yes, a lot of TAMers are against this notion. The reasons why have been laid out thoroughly, and extensively.
> 
> But I'd like to hear from TAMers who do have opposite sex friends. How do those friendships work in the context of marriage? Are there strict boundaries? Do you treat them similarly as you do your same sex friends? How does your spouse feel?
> 
> Any insight at all is welcome.


I have opposite sex friends and have had them for a long time. My platonic friendships hasn't been an issue in my marriage. Ever. I've asked my husband if it bothers him. He said no, he trusts me and he has known me for 20 years, he knows my character. Two of my friends are much older (in their 50s and one in his 60s). One is a grandfather! The others are closer to my age, but I don't think of them as anything other than friends. Two of my male friends attended our wedding and they came with their wives. The friends have always been respectful and our conversations are so PG-rated that my parents or grandparents could listen in. 

Big, important things in my life I share with my husband then two or three of my closest girlfriends. I don't call up these men to discuss marital problems. I don't ask them for advice on deeply personal matters. Even before I knew about EAs, I knew instinctively not to do that. We mostly communicate about stuff happening in our industry (most of us work in the same field), people we know in common, current events, politics or we exchange joke emails. When I say communicate, it's mostly via email. My husband knows my email passwords so if he wanted to he could read anything in my email account. For some of these friends, I communicate with them maybe biweekly. Others I don't hear from for months!

They helped out in various ways over the years. One has a truck so he has helped us move heavy items that we would othewise have to pay to have delivered. The job I have now I got because a friend of mine from the industry gave me a heads up about the opening. Plus I think after my interview, he put in a good word for me with the panel that did the interview. Another friend's wife is medical specialist and when I had a huge health scare several years ago, she called me to give some great advice. Another friend's wife sells Pampered Chef products. I got some good items from her. All the spouses know who I am. 

A long time ago, before I got married, I would go to karaoke with one of them but in a group setting with several other people. My husband was always free to come along but he hates public singing. So do I, but I don't mind making a fool of myself. :rofl: 
My husband hasn't ever set boundaries on these friends like "no lunch" or "no diner." In fact, he'd be ok with it. I just wouldn't do it although lunch I've had occasionally with one of my friends (occasional being defined as maybe once in six months), but it's more of a working lunch, not a date.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

I'm one of the "no OSF TAMERS" but in reality I'm not as hard core as I come across on these threads. One-on-one intimate conversation time or talk about marriages or friendship with EXs are more of the triggers for me. Plus there's a gray area between when someone is an acquaintance versus friend.

Imagine male and female partners on the police force for example. That's a lot of one-on-one time and emotional closeness but it seems okay. 
I have had a few close female friends that I work with. I'm sure my wife has had male friends too. Most I look back on and realize it was not inappropriate. Maybe one that was because I talked about my EX with her. Live and learn.

I think it's like many things in life. Give proper respect for the danger so you know if there is any. There are obviously plenty of examples where OSF works out great.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

Thundarr said:


> I'm one of the "no OSF TAMERS" but in reality I'm not as hard core as I come across on these threads. One-on-one intimate conversation time or talk about marriages or friendship with EXs are more of the triggers for me. Plus there's a gray area between when someone is an acquaintance versus friend.


EXs would bother me too. I wouldn't have OSF who I dated. In fact the only time my husband had an issue with a man who I knew was when an ex started writing to me from another state. He didn't like it. I put an end to the letters. Neither one of us keeps in touch with our ex boyfriend/girlfriends.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

CandieGirl said:


> No way would I ever say anything of the sort to another man; way inappropriate! Why discuss your sex life with anyone other than your partner, or a therapist?



I am not discussing our sex life with other women.
I am telling them directly that there is absolutely no gap they can fill in my life,
Not even SEXUAL.

Its a direct way to shut down their sexual advances. Sexual advances from women are never direct , but with men they often are.
A woman's sexual advances towards a male often come in the form of words of affirmation and guile.

An example of this is when a female acquaintance gives me that look during a conversation,and makes a remark about my physique along with a sexual innuendo or undertone.

Instead of blushing and and acting surprised,I give them a reply like that so that they know I'm definitely not interested.
It works like magic.

Nothing pisses off a woman more than when a man tells her that her sexuality has no power over him.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Caribbean Man said:


> I am not discussing our sex life with other women.
> I am telling them directly that there is absolutely no gap they can fill in my life,
> Not even SEXUAL.
> 
> ...


Ya you are, if you start telling them that you and your wife are still having great sex. Anyways. Whatever works for you!


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Coffee Amore said:


> EXs would bother me too. I wouldn't have OSF who I dated. In fact the only time my husband had an issue with a man who I knew was when an ex started writing to me from another state. He didn't like it. I put an end to the letters. Neither one of us keeps in touch with our ex boyfriend/girlfriends.


I don't keep in touch with EXes either.
I may run into one , but we are not friends. We are simply acquaintances.
When I'm finished in a relationship,I am done. 
I never go back.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

CandieGirl said:


> Ya you are, if you start telling them that you and your wife are still having great sex. *Anyways. Whatever works for you!*


And it DOES!
Just like magic.

Pisses them off all the time.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

I'm not out to piss anyone off... but generally a guy can tell I'm having great sex and I'm happily married by just looking at me. I don't have to say a word. 

It's the cheshire cat grin. Great sex keeps you smiling... A LOT.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

A Bit Much said:


> I'm not out to piss anyone off... but generally a guy can tell I'm having great sex and I'm happily married by just looking at me. I don't have to say a word.
> 
> It's the cheshire cat grin. Great sex keeps you smiling... A LOT.


Agreed, and going around worrying about pissing off the opsex is counterproductive...and probably means one shouldn't be having opsex friendships...


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

CandieGirl said:


> No way would I ever say anything of the sort to another man; way inappropriate! Why discuss your sex life with anyone other than your partner, or a therapist?


I don't believe I've ever discussed my sex life with any of my opposite sex friends, and neither has my wife. But we do discuss our sex lives with two of our very best same sex friends (who share their own sex lives as well). It's not an issue for us, and neither one of us have a single problem with it. 

As with all things in marriage it works if it works for both.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Want to thank you all for all the responses. They've not only been enlightening, but they've so helped me to take a closer look at my own friendships.

There are more boundaries there between my female friends, versus my male friends, than I've ever really articulated to myself (which is rare because I tend to be TOO introspective). These boundaries were never forced upon me by my wife, but they exist none the less. The friendships don't feel restrictive whatosever, yet still there exists natural borders, even if they don't feel confining.

I think I've taken issue with a lot of the TAM talk of ultimatums, mistrust, suspicion, and forced boundaries, which has caused me to get my neck up about some of these recommendations that make marriage look like a prison. But I'm seeing more and more clearly that the boundaries do exist for us, but that we define those lines ourselves, without any arm twisting from the other. That she trusts me means the world to me, and I know she feels the same. And that trust, and love, has led to perfectly natural, comfortable boundaries with OS friends that don't feel oppressive whatsoever.

It's not all that often at TAM that I get an "ah hah!" moment, but thanks to some of you in this thread I totally get it now.

Boundaries are great, it's just how they're set that matters.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

jaquen said:


> I don't believe I've ever discussed my sex life with any of my opposite sex friends, and neither has my wife. But *we do discuss our sex lives with two of our very best same sex friends (who share their own sex lives as well). *It's not an issue for us, and neither one of us have a single problem with it.
> 
> As with all things in marriage it works if it works for both.


It's funny. Neither me or my H do this... well I know for sure I don't, I'm not privy to all convos he has with his buddies... but I'm 99.9% sure he doesn't do it.

I was burned by this when I was younger, so I don't do it anymore. My SS friends don't know details because I just don't trust women that much to go there. Been there done that. Rather than suffer getting stabbed in the back later (and yes this really does depend on their marital status and happiness, but I still don't trust them regardless), I just don't go there. None of their business how freaky me and the MR are. lol


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

jaquen said:


> It's not all that often at TAM that I get an "ah hah!" moment, but thanks to some of you in this thread I totally get it now.
> 
> *Boundaries are great, it's just how they're set that matters.*


I personally think that when boundaries have to be " enforced",it means that there is either a level of distrust or immaturity.
The boundaries already exist, why try to push them in the first place?
Boundaries are not a prison, but a safeguard for those inside, from those on the outside.
If a partner starts pushing against the boundary , it suggest that they want to go outside IMO.
Trying to nforce any boundary with such a person could be a difficult task.

I guess it all depends on the couple,and their level of trust /maturity.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> I personally think that when boundaries have to be " enforced",it means that there is either a level of distrust or immaturity.
> The boundaries already exist, why try to push them in the first place?
> Boundaries are not a prison, but a safeguard for those inside, from those on the outside.
> If a partner starts pushing against the boundary , it suggest that they want to go outside IMO.
> ...


It took me a bit to figure out what you were saying here. Don't know why. Anyway I agree except I also think there are cases where the people are naive until they've crossed a boundary they didn't realize was there. Case in point, some people are blindsided by feelings they develop for an OSF and they do right by backing off. Once this happens, they have respect for the "not just friends" dynamic but until then they feel immune.


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## TryingToStayCalm (Dec 11, 2011)

I must say that I do believe in male-female friendship - I've been married a couple of years now, no kids so far, and have just finished living with a male friend for 7 months while working overseas. Nothing happened, nothing was even about to happen, and we did become great friends. We had a great time but strictly as friends. I think my husband was a bit worried at the beginning but when he realised that I consider him as a friend only he was ok with this arrangement. 

Having said that, I do believe in this kind of friendship in a perverse kind of way - I mean, I do believe in me having a male friend (as I did/do) because I know myself and I know I wouldn't "do anything" but if it was my husband who was to have a "regular" female friend... well, I admit I might freak out. Not because I don't trust him - because I wouldn't trust her...


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

TryingToStayCalm said:


> Having said that, I do believe in this kind of friendship in a perverse kind of way - I mean, I do believe in me having a male friend (as I did/do) because I know myself and I know I wouldn't "do anything" *but if it was my husband who was to have a "regular" female friend... well, I admit I might freak out*. Not because I don't trust him - because I wouldn't trust her...


Ah, double standards.


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## TryingToStayCalm (Dec 11, 2011)

Jellybeans: Yeah, I know... but in this case I can't help it... Maybe if my husband had a female friend before we met, then I would be somehow "used" to her. But otherwise... I think I would freak out.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> I personally think that when boundaries have to be " enforced",it means that there is either a level of distrust or immaturity.
> The boundaries already exist, why try to push them in the first place?
> Boundaries are not a prison, but a safeguard for those inside, from those on the outside.
> If a partner starts pushing against the boundary , it suggest that they want to go outside IMO.
> ...


Trying to decide whether I agree with this or not.

My wife had an affair, and the personality weaknesses that led to the affair are still there. In most circumstances I think she is totally honourable, but as her husband and best friend, I try and make sure she avoids the situation where she gets into trouble again.

It's partly paranoia, and partly me supporting her.

I certainly agree that, if your partner decides to be unfaithful, you can't stop them. The most you can do is make it less comfortable.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

TryingToStayCalm said:


> Jellybeans: Yeah, I know... but in this case I can't help it... Maybe if my husband had a female friend before we met, then I would be somehow "used" to her. But otherwise... I think I would freak out.


It's because you know the potential is there. Which is why it is a total double standard.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

TryingToStayCalm said:


> I must say that I do believe in male-female friendship - I've been married a couple of years now, no kids so far, and have just finished living with a male friend for 7 months while working overseas. Nothing happened, nothing was even about to happen, and we did become great friends. We had a great time but strictly as friends. I think my husband was a bit worried at the beginning but when he realised that I consider him as a friend only he was ok with this arrangement.


Yea that wouldn't have been an option for my wife. I mean the option to go overseas and live with some guy would have been her choice but letting her know I would file papers if she did that would have been my choice.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> It took me a bit to figure out what you were saying here. Don't know why. Anyway I agree except I also think there are cases where the people are naive until they've crossed a boundary they didn't realize was there. Case in point, some people are blindsided by feelings they develop for an OSF and they do right by backing off. Once this happens, they have respect for the "not just friends" dynamic but until then they feel immune.


I think I fully understand your POV, about a person being
" blindsided " by feelings they develop for OSF. 

But my own personal feeling is that if there is no void in my life / relationship with my wife,then how can I develop real intimate feelings for another woman?

Maybe I'm different,but even before I was married , I had female friends who were so close to me that they would tell me intimate details of their love life , and I never used it as an opportunity to get into their pants. There were times we were clubbing and they would be so drunk that they would sleep at my home and nothing happened.
But I guess it depends on a person's tolerance.
Everybody's different.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> I think I fully understand your POV, about a person being
> " blindsided " by feelings they develop for OSF.
> 
> But my own personal feeling is that if there is no void in my life / relationship with my wife,then how can I develop real intimate feelings for another woman?
> ...


That's likely because you had enough self esteem to not need an ego boost from conquering someone else' girl. If everyone was like you (or me for that matter) then we wouldn't be on TAM talking about cheaters, EAs, PAs, etc so often.


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## tm84 (Jul 24, 2011)

I've had female friends since I was a teenager and there's nothihng wrong with opposite-sex friendships in the context of marriage/relationships as long as boundaries are held up. I'm a year into recovery from my own EA and I've become a bit ultra vigilant about enforcing my own boundaries. My job is customer-service oriented and I keep a strict professional line drawn even with the female customers that I've known for a long time and with whom I may have a short casual conversation with when I see them. 

Beyond that, I maintain very good friendships with women I've known for a long time. My wife doesn't have any male friends other than a couple that she knew through her brother; all of her friendships are with women. 

I think that it's healthy to have opposite-sex friends because they can give you a different outlook on all sorts of issues. Just don't invite trouble and everything will be good.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

TryingToStayCalm said:


> I must say that I do believe in male-female friendship - I've been married a couple of years now, no kids so far, and have just finished living with a male friend for 7 months while working overseas. Nothing happened, nothing was even about to happen, and we did become great friends. We had a great time but strictly as friends. I think my husband was a bit worried at the beginning but when he realised that I consider him as a friend only he was ok with this arrangement.
> 
> Having said that, I do believe in this kind of friendship in a perverse kind of way - I mean, I do believe in me having a male friend (as I did/do) because I know myself and I know I wouldn't "do anything" but if it was my husband who was to have a "regular" female friend... well, I admit I might freak out. Not because I don't trust him - because I wouldn't trust her...


I would definitely not be comfortable with this for me or my wife.

You might not realise you were heading for a cliff until you went off it.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

jaquen said:


> Yes, a lot of TAMers are against this notion. The reasons why have been laid out thoroughly, and extensively.
> 
> But I'd like to hear from TAMers who do have opposite sex friends. How do those friendships work in the context of marriage? Are there strict boundaries? Do you treat them similarly as you do your same sex friends? How does your spouse feel?
> 
> Any insight at all is welcome.



Opposite sex friends work for us because we have boundaries, openness and respect. *Before I elaborate on that it is important to note what types of friends I am talking about. *There are acquaintances, people you know and talk to but don't really do or share anything with. *There are friends that you do entertaining things and perhaps you open up a bit of your personal life to but remain guarded in many respects. *There are close friends who are allowed to see a lot of your personal life, emotional thoughts with whom you share special events with. * And there are the very close friends (BFF) with whom you are completely open and share almost anything with. *

My wife is my closest very close friend and I have a couple of male friends who are able to see the majority of who I am. *For me OSFs are not in this category but they can be close friends just not very close. * So my women friends can share special events and times, some emotional intimacy but never at a level that competes with the special friendship I have with my wife.*

One of the major boundaries we have include*limiting the closeness of an OSF. *There is a baseline set by our same sex close friends of what we do and say. *This baseline should not be exceeded. *If you give presents or special favors to your same sex friends then it is allowed with opposite sex friends to the same degree. *It quickly becomes obvious when you do things that favor someone over the baseline. *This includes typical time spent with friends as well. *

Another boundary is no escalation of contact. *One of the signs that someone is more than a friend is that contact with them continually increases until its a threat to the marriage. *Too much time with an OSF is not good and it needs to be limited. * There are a lot of smaller boundaries like no complaining about the marriage or the spouse to an OSF, limited touching, limited emotional confidences etc.*

Openness. *There should be no secret friends and all of your interactions with an OSF should be transparent and verifiable to your spouse. *Open access to email, Facebook or any other means of communication. * Your spouse should know your friends and have opportunities to meet and be friends with them as well. *Openness feeds into the next point.*

Respect. *We need to respect the gut feelings of our spouses even if we disagree with them. *The spouse is in a unique position to see your behavior and how it changes in the company of an OSF. *In addition they can see the behavior of your OSF and can be in tune with OSF motives a bit better than you can frequently. *So if your spouse is uneasy with your relationship, you need to respect it and make adjustments accordingly. * You need to give your spouses opinion priority over your OSF.*


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

Caribbean Man said:


> But my own personal feeling is that if there is no void in my life / relationship with my wife,then how can I develop real intimate feelings for another woman.


Feelings can and do build even without a vacuum in your relationship with your wife because of the chemistry of love in your brain. It all really depends upon how much of the reward circuits of your brain is activated. A great relationship with your wife helps a lot but it is not always enough. It happened to me when my relationship with my wife was the best it had been for years and was very good.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

jaquen said:


> Yup, been there, but the opposite. My wife had a couple close male friends that I knew were attracted to her. She swore up, down, and sideways that they didn't feel that. way. And just like you, without having to interfere, they made their feelings known one by one.
> 
> I do have female friends that I suspect were attracted to me, but they never made a move. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I talk about my wife so glowingly, and so frequently, that they didn't see an in road?


This is why it's important to listen to your spouse and respect their opinion. And another boundary to respect is don't share personal feelings about your OSF with them.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

My best friend is male. I think of him more of the younger brother i never had... How ever he is gay.

I have never gotten along with girls.. I have always had male friends. I have been "just one of the guys"


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

meson said:


> This is why it's important to listen to your spouse and respect their opinion. And another boundary to respect is don't share personal feelings about your OSF with them.


The "them" in your last sentence is referring to the OSF, not the spouse, right? So don't share personal feelings about your OSF with the OSF.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

meson said:


> Feelings can and do build even without a vacuum in your relationship with your wife because of the chemistry of love in your brain. It all really depends upon how much of the reward circuits of your brain is activated. A great relationship with your wife helps a lot but it is not always enough. It happened to me when my relationship with my wife was the best it had been for years and was very good.


Whilst I hear what you are saying, I believe that men are supposed to be ".. masters of their own destiny.."

Every hetrosexual man know when a relationship between himself and another female is turning from platonic to sexual.
Every man feels that rush , and know exactly when his
" friend " is giving off sex signals. The problem comes in when we choose to lie to ourselves, and say it isn't so.
If a hetrosexual man had another male as his close friend,and his male friend started asking him certain types of sexual questions that he rather hear from a woman and not a man, would he " fall in love " with him?
No.
Because his brain is wired a certain way to block out such advances.
So I believe that if a man was disciplined enough, he could train his brain to filter out any unwanted advance from another female. If he cannot do it himself, I think his wife , whom he trust [ ? ] should be able to help him.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

Coffee Amore said:


> The "them" in your last sentence is referring to the OSF, not the spouse, right? So don't share personal feelings about your OSF with the OSF.


Yes.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

I've never cheated on my wife, even before she was my wife. We took two breaks during our relationship where both were allowed technically to date other people, but neither of us did (and I was living close to 300 miles away from her). I didn't so much as make a pass at any of my female friends, and some of them are quite beautiful. Why would I? No matter what, my heart belonged to my baby, she was my IT, AND I have moral/spiritual beliefs about sex that would preclude a casual encounter. If I didn't do jack with a single OSF while I was technically "single", hundreds of miles away, and free to do whatever I wanted, well it's tough to imagine doing it now.

Now having said all of that, if I ever got to the point of cheating on my wife I wouldn't need OSF to justify it. If I'm cheating, I'm cheating. My wife not "allowing" me to have OSF (which isn't even possible in our marriage) wouldn't make a lick of difference.

At the end of the day, OSF or not, she has to trust that I'll keep my vows. She can't do anything at all to make me keep them, even if she tried to execute some orders, or control me. Even if she had every password, puts keyloggers on, snopes through my history, checks my phone, p*ssy is out there, and there is always somebody willing. 

It is very easy to be unfaithful if you decide to do so. Not a single one of my female friends matters one bit if I'm going to phuck around.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

jaquen said:


> *It is very easy to be unfaithful if you decide to do so. Not a single one of my female friends matters one bit if I'm going to phuck around.*


:iagree:

Which is my point.
Every man is master of his own destiny.
We all KNOW what goes on in our mind,and our emotions. We know exactly what turns us on, and when we are being turned on.
we choose to be in the company of that person. We choose to return those sexy texts. We choose to allow the chemicals in our brain to further stroke our egos.

We choose to cheat.
Doesn't matter if its a prostitute , ONS , a casual encounter from Craiglist or an opposite sex friend.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

Caribbean Man said:


> Whilst I hear what you are saying, I believe that men are supposed to be ".. masters of their own destiny.."
> 
> Every hetrosexual man know when a relationship between himself and another female is turning from platonic to sexual.
> Every man feels that rush , and know exactly when his
> ...


It's not all about sexual feelings. Excessive emotional bonding is as devastating to a marriage. Then after close emotional bonds form its easier to develope sexual feelings. 

Same sex friends can develope emotianl bonds that threaten a marriage as well with no sexual feelings.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

meson said:


> It's not all about sexual feelings. Excessive emotional bonding is as devastating to a marriage. Then after close emotional bonds form its easier to develope sexual feelings.
> 
> Same sex friends can develope emotianl bonds that threaten a marriage as well with no sexual feelings.


Just remove the pu$$y from the equation and that 
" emotional bonding" will simply disappear.

I don't think same sex bonding 
[ in the context of which you refer ] are called emotional affairs.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

My wife and I have an "inter-connected team-governed joined social circle" meaning that we are not friends with anyone who isn't friends with BOTH of us first. Which means if one of us isn't cool with someone, the other won't be cool with them either.

Male or female, whatever friends we encounter, if we don't trust them, forget it. She has a lot of hot female friends come to think of it, but I know they are all not the type to cheat.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Which is my point.
> Every man is master of his own destiny.
> ...


I know now because I am older and I learned from my mistakes.

When I was younger and it happened to me, I didn't see it coming till I was caught in this web of feelings. My wife had cheated, I was lonely, and I didn't have a lot of emotional strength.

I didn't cheat, and I'd like to think I wouldn't, but if I had fallen for a manipulative cheat instead of a decent woman with boundaries, bad things might have happened.

Having once made the mistake, I don't feel confident to say it couldn't happen again.

If you are stronger that's great. I choose to set the boundaries further back than is strictly necessary, so that even if I mess up hopefully I catch it in time.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> My wife and I have an "inter-connected team-governed joined social circle" meaning that we are not friends with anyone who isn't friends with BOTH of us first. Which means if one of us isn't cool with someone, the other won't be cool with them either.


That's funny. My wife and I are the complete opposite.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

jaquen said:


> That's funny. My wife and I are the complete opposite.


Well this system was her idea and it came to light only after some violent episodes I had with my past mates heh
She got me to meet new friends and it went from there... and it has managed to work itself out.

The thought does come to my mind about banging the lot of the female ones with wifey though lol - but I know they will never do it, and most have BFs/husbands anyway (she sure knows how to pick 'em!)


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Wazza said:


> I know now because I am older and I learned from my mistakes.
> 
> When I was younger and it happened to me, I didn't see it coming till I was caught in this web of feelings. My wife had cheated, I was lonely, and I didn't have a lot of emotional strength.
> 
> ...


This hits home with me as well. Thinking back to my first marriage, I know I would have strayed given the wrong circumstances. I mean there was opportunity and I didn't stray but I thought about it and fortunately I was pretty accountable for my time. 

I definitely project my own shortcoming onto others in this regard but that's because I've always been a good hearted person yet I was weak in this regard. If I was weak and didn't realize it at the time (or would not have admitted it) then surely there are others just the same. And not all devious cheaters.

I know that I could have OSF with no consequence now but how can we know when we are at that place yet or if we are fooling ourselves. I guess one way is to put the theory to test and see what happens. That seems dangerous to a lot of people.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Wazza said:


> My wife had cheated, I was lonely, and I didn't have a lot of emotional strength.


Your wife cheated on you. That's a total game changer. A lot of men, and women, who wouldn't ordinarily even consider cheating might do so, and go through with it, after that kind of betrayal.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

OK, for those who found themselves tempted to have EA/PA with a friend, are you use to being hit on, on at least a semi regular basis, by members of the opposite sex?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

For me, yes. 

But it was more emotional which gives weight to what Meson was saying. 

I have said it before & will say it again: I think the emotional bonding is a helluva lot worse than anything else.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

jaquen said:


> OK, for those who found themselves tempted to have EA/PA with a friend, are you use to being hit on, on at least a semi regular basis, by members of the opposite sex?


I know where you're going with this and it's a valid assumption for what would make someone vulnerable (if that person is not used to the attention).

I was bordering on player personality before marriage but I married at 19 so I suspect that was part of the issue. I'd been with quite a few girls in a short period of time and then became exclusive quickly. Add to that I have twin and we were really competitive in all regards so that may have contributed as well.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> I have said it before & will say it again: I think the emotional bonding is a helluva lot worse than anything else.


True from a woman's perspective. PA is death from a mans point of view though. It's not even a close comparison for me.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Yes it is said that for a man the physical is worse, for a woman, the emotional.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

jaquen said:


> Your wife cheated on you. That's a total game changer. A lot of men, and women, who wouldn't ordinarily even consider cheating might do so, and go through with it, after that kind of betrayal.


I don't see how that changes the point. Lots of marriages go through low periods when one or the other partner is vulnerable. In my case because the wife had cheated. Could have been for another reason. 

Would I have been excused if I had cheated because I was at a low point? Should my wife have been excused because of the issues emotional issues she had when she cheated?

If I want to be with someone else, I think I need to tell my wife, not lie to her.


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## Zanna (May 10, 2012)

I have OSF. We're all in the same profession. My profession requires me to form relationships with both men and women as it's important for networking.

We do meet for lunch once in awhile, text, take work related workshops together but all we talk about is our line of work. I don't discuss my marriage problems with these men nor do they discuss theirs. I guess that's the boundary. It's strictly a professional friendship. Yes, we discuss feelings, insecurities so somewhat personal matters but again, it's all work related.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> True from a woman's perspective. PA is death from a mans point of view though. It's not even a close comparison for me.


Case by case. I'm male and the emotional stuff hurts more.

At the moment, the single most painful memory for me is that I confronted the other man, he discussed with her that I had confronted, and they kept going.

I'm triggering just typing that, and it's years ago.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Zanna said:


> I have OSF. We're all in the same profession. My profession requires me to form relationships with both men and women as it's important for networking.
> 
> We do meet for lunch once in awhile, text, take work related workshops together but all we talk about is our line of work.* I don't discuss my marriage problems with these men nor do they discuss theirs.* I guess that's the boundary. It's strictly a professional friendship. *Yes, we discuss feelings, insecurities so somewhat personal matters but again, it's all work related.*


I think that makes perfect since. There are boundaries that basically constrain unnecessary one-on-one. In your case, the job requires it to some degree.


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## Zanna (May 10, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> True from a woman's perspective. PA is death from a mans point of view though. It's not even a close comparison for me.


I'm a woman and I'm not doing so well with the PA part. The EA part doesn't bother me as much. Maybe it's because OW was bunny boiler crazy and he clearly wasn't thinking straight if he could tell that nut he loved her, I don't know. BUT the PA part is what is probably going to kill R for me eventually.



jaquen said:


> OK, for those who found themselves tempted to have EA/PA with a friend, are you use to being hit on, on at least a semi regular basis, by members of the opposite sex?


Never been tempted to have an EA/PA with a friend and I get hit on a lot. And complimented a lot. 

I guess I'm just not someone who gets a dopamine hit from flattery. Or my morals win out.


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## galian84 (May 7, 2012)

Boyfriend and I both have OSF...also required in our line of work (we're both in healthcare, so we interact with a lot of people, males and females, daily). We don't hang out with our OSF one-on-one, and we don't discuss personal matters with them, unless it relates to school / work. Admittedly, we USED to get personal with them, but that has since stopped since we began dating.

We both go with our gut instinct as far as trusting OSFs. I think that men know other men's intentions, and women know other women's intentions. We'll voice our concerns and do whatever it takes to make the other person comfortable, whether it's less contact, no hanging out one-on-one (though we don't do that, anyway), or dropping the friendship completely. Neither of us mind that, as we both have enough same-sex friends.

With that said, I never believed in having a close friend of the opposite sex. There is nothing that another man can provide for me that my boyfriend or my girlfriends can't.


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## 45188 (Sep 13, 2012)

Jaq, I have had a TON of guy friends. A ton! I was never interested in them, ever! I'm a girl. When I met my boyfriend, he was uncomfortable with the trail of guys always following me around. He said I was naive and clueless and I said he didn't know what he was talking about.

But.. each and every single one of these guys has come up to me and told me that they used to have a crush on me or wished to have sex with me. This is about 15 or 16 different guys from high school that I hung out with, and I NEVER had a clue!!

My father has always said a man and a woman can't be friends. He is a good man. However.. He cheated on my mother, and she had a revenge affair. That was 23 years ago. Hasn't happened again. It almost destroyed them back then though. 

I used to be one of those people who believed in this. I'm 28 now. I learned.. Well you've read my story. My gut was screaming EA. My boyfriend was telling me I was a psycho for thinking it. I told him today that I thought he was having an emotional affair and.. He told me he wanted to slap me for thinking that.

He said his female friend meant nothing to him. Nothing.. Yet 2 days in a row he continuously 'forgot' to remove her. Today, I told him to cut it off, or I'm done. He said sure, no problem and THEN.. When he got home, he started a huge argument with me about how shes ugly, I have trust issues (Shes cute btw) I need to trust him and he laid in bed and REFUSED to say goodbye to her. REFUSED. His stories about why he wanted her around just kept on changing. Removed her from his things, no block though!

Why would he refuse to say goodbye to someone he says he doesnt care about especially knowing what it does to me? This man who swore up and down how much he hates cheaters. How he wont even watch a movie having to do with infidelity because theres a cheater in it.

Before, I thought he was so morale.. Now.. I think he just feels guilty.

I'd also like to add.. I'm kinda guilty of it too. When I actually spent a ton of time with a guy, alone, one on one.. Well it's happened twice, and both times I ended up falling for the guy. 

First guy cheated on me with his female friend, I'm not bitter was a long time ago. 

Second guy.. Thats the one my story is about.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Wazza said:


> I don't see how that changes the point. Lots of marriages go through low periods when one or the other partner is vulnerable. In my case because the wife had cheated. Could have been for another reason.


I don't consider cheating merely a "low point". I consider it an instant marriage murderer. I did not say it was the best, or right, solution to your problem. I merely acknowledged that it was a game changer. Cheating under those circumstances, when your spouse has had an affair, is a totally different beast from the common, everyday temptations.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Zanna said:


> Never been tempted to have an EA/PA with a friend and I get hit on a lot. And complimented a lot.
> 
> *I guess I'm just not someone who gets a dopamine hit from flattery. Or my morals win out.*


^^^^^^^^
This right there is me.
Maybe I tend to value reason over emotion. But I've always been showered with attention by females ever since I was a boy.
It really has no " dopamine " effect on my psyche.

I guess it depends on a person's past experiences and their perception of self.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

This is how it is for us... we have never sat down & discussed boundaries about these things in our existence....until I started reading stuff on TAM -then we talked a bit - as these R important issues in a healthy marriage - showing *respect* to one another. 

But honestly....we've never had a reason to or felt the other was pushing anywhere that caused discomfort or arousing suspicions of the others *loyalty* or *trust*. We've always been as thick as thieves anyway. Reveling in the "ball & chain" of matrimony. 



> *jaquen said*: We both believe that if one of us ever cheats, as improbable as that feels to both of us, it'll be because we chose to cheat. It won't be because of an opposite sex friend, or anyone else's fault. It's us. Period. We are responsible for our marriage, and nobody else.


 We also look at ourselves LIKE THIS. I've told my husband in the past... that it is HE who is committed to me/ spoken vows in Love & honor.... I would NOT blame the woman.. And If I did something against him-- this is PURELY ON ME....I am one strong minded woman and I KNOW what I am doing, there would be zero excuse. If one of us gets taken down, it is cause we wanted to go there. ..... I am honest enough to say outright..... "Look, I am struggling with something here & we need to talk" ..dealing with it together before a seed starts to grow. My husband knows me very very well in this way...I can't hide anything from the man, he's been too good to me... my conscience wouldn't allow it ....my record is 3 days....He calls this a blessing.....it is WHY he trusts me so darn much.... I am the 100% transparency woman on TAM. My thread here >> HERE

It helps - neither of us has any Exs that amount to anything but puppy infatuation....and we've been each other's







since ...well....dust. 

When we met.... his friends became MY friends, my friends became HIS friends....as it should be. We've never had an issue with one trying to cut into this....everyone could see ...*where HE is, I AM*....*and where I am, HE IS*.







I've always talked highly of my man before others.









A few yrs back, an old friend from High school... we believe, backed away from us...due to some growing feelings for me though..... some things spoken - the height of flattering / envy showing.....a couple Gf's even called me telling me he had a thing for me....after a time where a group of us was hanging at parties/bonfires ...our house, his house etc. (even in the midst of his seeing someone - problems there & my fixing him up with one of my Gf's).

My husband was never worried about this -because he KNEW where MY







was at...on him....very much so at that time ~ Overload. Plus this guy DID respect his place -- although there was some flattering things spoken, he also talked like that TO my husband...even to our son once - giving him a piece of advice... telling him to marry a woman just like his mother- pointing at me... bla bla bla. 

One of the most beautiful compliments we've ever had on our marraige came from his mouth...Sitting around his kitchen table once talking about relationships (his woes with women after his divorce), everyone there was single except us......my GF says to him about us..."don't they make you sick?" ...and he replies...." I couldn't live a second Lifetime & find a love like that"... We just thought ...







This is how our friends see us. That was very touching. 

Then he stopped coming around (still on our Facebook's though), he never tried to lure me away -he know how THICK we were...it was something unpenetratable. 

Then we have my Debating Partner, another single man, many comments to my husband what a lucky SOB he is....commonplace. We've known him for over 20 yrs, considers us his best friends...he is like an Uncle to our kids, met him in a Bible study yrs ago.....I am more of the BSer ... my husband always there -interjecting a word or 2... .. he is just amused how we go at it -communcatively......this friend calls me on occasion -just to shoot the breeze.... He tells me his needs his "(insert my real name) FIX". 

I have zero attraction to him whatsoever & he is as harmless as a Dove, proving that after all of these yrs .... he's told us we have one of the best marriages he's even known -outside of one older couple... I/we know he loves us both & if I ever hurt my husband, I'd have to deal with His wrath upon me. He quit talking to us for 3 months once when we told him we were going to a strip Club- to check it out....even writing me a letter telling me I was out of my mind & we were going to destruct our marraige with that one. 

Wasn't the case, as in all things, we do & have always done EVERYTHING together ~ as a team. This is very important - with friends of the opposite sex. 

A few Flattering comments , a little joking, bantering, cloning talk (one of my single Gf's is always saying this about my husband - calling him the ultimate man)....we don't see this as a threat- in any way.

I think we all KNOW when it is TRULY crossing a line. We've never had to deal with that..... I think I owe this to the type of people we choose to hang with ...and how others can see 'what we have" ...and how it would just be a waste of time.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

jaquen said:


> OK, for those who found themselves tempted to have EA/PA with a friend, are you use to being hit on, on at least a semi regular basis, by members of the opposite sex?


For me it wasn't that simple. It wasn't that I was tempted. It happened so slowly and everything was above board and fine until I noticed feelings for the OW. The gradual escalation of contact had a power much stronger than the urges that Caribbean man tells us to master. 
But no, I don’t get hit on by women very often. I don’t give off indicators of interest and don’t have flirty conversations with women that invite it. Perhaps because I am not and never have been a player it is more natural for me to have OSFs because there is no ulterior motives that distract me.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

I have always had opposite sex friendships. When younger and not committed to a significant other, the dynamics never really bothered me. Such friendships panned out in different ways.

Now, with a bit more life experience under my belt, I am more wary. Mainly because my husband had an EA with a new "friend" he made. That and being on here really opened my eyes to the dynamics between men and women.

Now? I have a number of male friends. By chance, my husband knew pretty much all of them anyway before we got together, so he knows these guys, some more than others. On my part there is nothing "more", I don't find any of them attractive, despite having spent a tonne of time with most of them through various circumstances. As to whether they find *me* attractive? I don't know for sure. Certainly none of them have crossed the line.

My good friend is one I used to go to gigs to as we like the same music. He married a fabulous woman who is the most welcoming gal ever, I was so pleased for him. I don't see him as much as in my younger days but I will pop round for a cuppa, either with both of them there or just him, and this is with the full knowledge of all parties. We just catch up. I wouldn't do this if my husband or his wife objected.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

jaquen said:


> Yes, a lot of TAMers are against this notion. The reasons why have been laid out thoroughly, and extensively.
> 
> But I'd like to hear from TAMers who do have opposite sex friends. How do those friendships work in the context of marriage? Are there strict boundaries? Do you treat them similarly as you do your same sex friends? How does your spouse feel?
> 
> Any insight at all is welcome.


There is a lot of "white space" in those relationships.
Encounters are always in an environment with constraints...movie, dinner, dance studio, among friends, etc. Also not to include anyone been involved with beyond hugging basis.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Just got a call from a former colleague (male) who invited me to breakfast tomorrow at his house with another former colleague (also male). I am going.

What would you do in this instance?


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

CandieGirl said:


> Just got a call from a former colleague (male) who invited me to breakfast tomorrow at his house with another former colleague (also male). I am going.
> 
> What would you do in this instance?


I don't think we could know the right answer because we don't know you all. Personally I think from a EA standpoint one-on-one time is worse than a group.  I guess we have to assume your hubby is working or watching football or something and will not want to go? Again though, only you know if these guys are flirty and dogs or if they are stand up guys.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

CandieGirl said:


> Just got a call from a former colleague (male) who invited me to breakfast tomorrow at his house with another former colleague (also male). I am going.
> 
> What would you do in this instance?


If it was me, I wouldn't feel comfortable going to their personal home -unless I knew at least one of them really really well -I'd prefer my husband to go with me - if that could be arranged. Out to eat at a restaurant would seem a better choice. 

But like Thundarr said, depends on the type of men they are. Not all are dirty dogs.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Thundarr said:


> I don't think we could know the right answer because we don't know you all. Personally I think from a EA standpoint one-on-one time is worse than a group. I guess we have to assume your hubby is working or watching football or something and will not want to go? Again though, only you know if these guys are flirty and dogs or if they are stand up guys.


My husband will be coming with me. When we met, my friends automatically became his friends. Even though neither of these two guys has ever been inappropriate with me, I still wouldn't go alone to one of their homes. After all, I would not want my husband going alone to a woman's house 

In other (rare) instances, the 3 of us have met at a restaurant for a Christmas outing. I probably wouldn't go if it was just one of them, mind you. Too much like a date for my liking. Even if it wasn't, you never know who you'll run into that might think it's something less than kosher.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

CandieGirl said:


> *My husband will be coming with me.* When we met, my friends automatically became his friends. Even though neither of these two guys has ever been inappropriate with me, *I still wouldn't go alone to one of their homes. After all, I would not want my husband going alone to a woman's house *
> 
> In other (rare) instances, the 3 of us have met at a restaurant for a Christmas outing. *I probably wouldn't go if it was just one of them, mind you. Too much like a date for my liking.* Even if it wasn't, you never know who you'll run into *that might think it's something less than kosher.*


Your boundaries are spot on with mine. Plus I like that you put weight on how it looks to others. It's a sign of respect to your hubby.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

tm84 said:


> My wife doesn't have any male friends other than a couple that she knew through her brother; all of her friendships are with women.


Hypothetical question: How would you feel if your wife did have a lot of male friends, ones she was close to?



meson said:


> This is why it's important to listen to your spouse and respect their opinion. And another boundary to respect is don't share personal feelings about your OSF with them.


This is PARAMOUNT. A lot of times your partner sees stuff you d not pick up on at all. I used to think that was silly but not anymore. 

I have mentioned this story in another thread. When my exH and I were dating, one of my guy friends had invited us out for drinks. ExH wasn't into it and basically said this guy had it out for me. When exH and I divorced and I announced it to this guy friend, guess who started being really flirty with me, when he never had been before? Apparently Mr. ExJelly could see something I never saw. 

Your partner *knows*. They definitely pick up on things.



SimplyAmorous said:


> It helps - neither of us has any Exs that amount to anything but puppy infatuation....and we've been each other's
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And THIS is how it should be. This is why married people with OSF who they claim are their "best friends" -- I don't buy it. Your spouse/partner should be your best OSF friend.

Candie--invite your husband to go with you.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

CandieGirl said:


> Even if it wasn't, you never know who you'll run into that might think it's something less than kosher.


I guess I'm the only one who doesn't give a **** what it looks like to others. I go out with female friends one on one, and if somebody one or both of us knew saw us, and got the wrong idea, well bully for them. Have a good time scandalizing thin air. My wife doesn't give a crap, and neither do I.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

jaquen said:


> I guess I'm the only one who doesn't give a **** what it looks like to others. I go out with female friends one on one, and if somebody one or both of us knew saw us, and got the wrong idea, well bully for them. Have a good time scandalizing thin air. My wife doesn't give a crap, and neither do I.


I generally don't care what people think either, at least in most other aspects, I could care less. In this case however I don't want people pity my wife if they suspect foul play on my part or pity me if they suspect foul play on her part. Someone showing pity for me might make their nose bleed .


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

jaquen said:


> I guess I'm the only one who doesn't give a **** what it looks like to others. I go out with female friends one on one, and if somebody one or both of us knew saw us, and got the wrong idea, well bully for them. Have a good time scandalizing thin air. My wife doesn't give a crap, and neither do I.


Call me crazy, but if my father-in-law were to walk into a restaurant and see me sitting there with another man? Well....no. Same if my Mom were to walk in and see my husband having a dinner date with another woman. No excuse in the world would justify that in her eyes. And rightly so! I do give a crap what others think; most of us do.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Thundarr said:


> I generally don't care what people think either, at least in most other aspects, I could care less. In this case however I don't want people pity my wife if they suspect foul play on my part or pity me if they suspect foul play on her part. Someone showing pity for me might make their nose bleed .


I should clarify that I only care what _certain_ people think, as outlined in my post above. As far as the general population goes, no one knows who I am...I haven't reached celebrity status yet. 

Pity, though, is the last thing on my mind. I don't want to give the wrong impression of myself.


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## galian84 (May 7, 2012)

Candie, you said your husband was going with you? Then I don't see a problem with that! And yes, I do believe that most people do care what others think. Something my dad always told me..."perception is everything". As my parents said, it's much easier to lose a good reputation than a bad one.

Let me share some of the experiences I've had with OSF over the years...

When I was younger, I, too, had many more OSF, thinking it was no big deal. I used to play video games with my ex and my brother, and so I spent a LOT of time with males as we played the game together (World of Warcraft, anyone? ). I'd say MOST of the males I talked to on a regular basis ended up hitting on me, and half these people didn't even know what I looked like! And a lot of them had girlfriends. And here I thought we were all just gaming buddies / friends.

I also had lots of male friends from school. Again, most of them were interested in me in more than just a friend, which sometimes I wouldn't find out until years later.

My first friend from school was also a guy, and we became close in the last 4 years as we went through a lot of the same ups and downs together. My boyfriend trusts the guy, and I had NO REASON to believe he wanted to be anything more than just friends (I didn't even think I was his type). But, 4 years later, on the off-chance that I met this guy alone--boyfriend didn't mind, I asked him first--he began to say things like "I just wanted to hang out with you", wanted to have dinner and see a movie, which I declined, as it was too "date-like" for me. He also said "I love you" jokingly, kissed me on the cheek goodbye a little longer than I would have liked. I cut the night short, went home, feeling very awkward, and told my boyfriend what had happened. My boyfriend didn't like the whole situation, either. I don't see this male friend alone anymore. We still hang out to study occasionally since we are both taking our licensing exam at the same time and we live in the same area, but we keep it short, meet in the middle of the day, at our school. Even that's lessening now. I don't anticipate seeing much of him after we both pass the exam.

Boyfriend also had a female co-worker who he grew close to in the past 4 years. I had an uncomfortable feeling about her, and several things happened in which I eventually asked him to cut off contact with her outside work and limit his conversations with her at work. Lo and behold, she freaked out, acting possessive of him and hurling insults at me and us together, when he stopped contact with her. My boyfriend's super-friendly sister had a problem with this girl, as well. Mind you, this is the only person I've asked him to cut contact with. He works with lots of other women, who I have no bad feeling about, and I don't even have suspicions of his ex-wife, who he talks to and sees a few times a week in regards to his 9-year old son.

I also had an ex-boyfriend cheat on me with a girl who he kept claiming was just his friend (heard that before?), even though I had an uneasy feeling about her. 10 years after we broke up, he still makes comments about how he thinks I'm desirable and is trying to get me to work with him on his cruise ship...yeah, no.

So, I no longer think it's possible for men and women to be "just friends". Acquaintances or friends of the couple, okay...definitely NOT close friends! In terms of OSF, I'd say...always go with your gut feeling. Mine has never proved me wrong.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> I generally don't care what people think either, at least in most other aspects, I could care less. In this case however I don't want people pity my wife if they suspect foul play on my part or pity me if they suspect foul play on her part. * Someone showing pity for me might make their nose bleed* .


:rofl: Well when you put it that way...



CandieGirl said:


> Call me crazy, but if my father-in-law were to walk into a restaurant and see me sitting there with another man? Well....no. Same if my Mom were to walk in and see my husband having a dinner date with another woman. No excuse in the world would justify that in her eyes. And rightly so! I do give a crap what others think; most of us do.


I guess it helps that:

A. My father-in-law would never walk into a restaurant I frequent. Ever.
B. I couldn't care less what my FIL thought.

I'm not married to my FIL. If my wife doesn't care, that's all that concerns me.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

FIL was just an example. Like I said, there are a certain few people, who, yes, I care what they think. But you've made it abundantly clear that you and your wife don't give a crap what others think. To each their own.

But have you ever stopped to think that these opsex friendships you both have...provide an instant alibi in the off chance of cheating? "Just a friend...". Not that I'm suggesting you or your wife cheats, of course. Purely hypothetical.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

CandieGirl said:


> But have you ever stopped to think that these opsex friendships you both have...provide an instant alibi in the off chance of cheating? "Just a friend...". Not that I'm suggesting you or your wife cheats, of course. Purely hypothetical.


Yes, it would be the perfect alibi.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Thundarr said:


> I generally don't care what people think either, at least in most other aspects, I could care less. In this case however I don't want people pity my wife if they suspect foul play on my part or pity me if they suspect foul play on her part. Someone showing pity for me might make their nose bleed .


I go to a church that frowns on anyone married who would even have a single opposite sex person in the car with them, like giving them a lift home (so it doesn't look bad to others OR create unwarrented temptation).... If one is in Leadership, they would even get in trouble for this, be called into the Office..... which I think it totally rediculous. I would think helping someone get a ride to church & home is a bit more important frankly.

I believe my Pastor was such a horny toad in his youth, that he goes a little overboard with his rules within the Church. Kinda like St Augustine being a Who*emonger, than talks about sex only being for procreation in his "Confessions". There is always a balance but some are more strict due to their previous experiences -for example..if they have "fallen"..and badly. 

Me & my guy friend has went to a SHinedown Concert together (with 2 of my boys & a GF)- while my husband stayed home with the little one (less of a fan)... also he came with me to wait in line for the tickets months before.... .. he has also come to our house when my husband was working- when I had roofers on my roof and Tree cutters in my yard taking down 2 monster Pines... just so I was NOT alone with strange men at my house. 

He also offered to come stack wood piles for us -after the tree cutters were done....while my husband was a work. 

My husband has stopped after work to help my GF work on her car before coming home... or helped with a house project for a couple hrs on occasion. Friends help each other out in a pinch, it's all very reasonable. Special situations. Then we always talk obout our conversations later that night - filling each other in....this is just automatic...our way. Not because we are nosy, but it is something to talk about. 

There are likely some marraiges that feel this is being too liberal. I don't know. I can't say I have ever wanted to get off alone with any of our single OSF's -without my husband by my side... and I know he feels the same. 

He knows which friends we have that I think are good looking too, one is married, and well...he was back in the day HOT HOT HOT... but today, he has a beer belly, missing teeth, out of a job & a bit of a drunk... the hotness done dried up....though his son reminds me of him in those younger days. 

And the one gf I have that is a smashing blonde...well she is too whacked mentally -my husband has told me she'd drive him insane. He'd stay single over that -if something happened to me.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I go to a church that frowns on anyone married who would even have a single opposite sex person in the car with them, like giving them a lift home (so it doesn't look bad to others OR create unwarrented temptation).... If one is in Leadership, they would even get in trouble for this, be called into the Office..... which I think it totally rediculous. I would think helping someone get a ride to church & home is a bit more important frankly.
> 
> I believe my Pastor was such a horny toad in his youth, that he goes a little overboard with his rules within the Church. Kinda like St Augustine being a Who*emonger, than talks about sex only being for procreation in his "Confessions". There is always a balance but some are more strict due to their previous experiences -for example..if they have "fallen"..and badly.



I've known people like that. They're like the Taliban in a way. The Taliban will say "cover up your face and ankles, you loose woman you! You'll tempt some man. Never show your ankles." In the same way, these people who don't even want people to have conversations with an OSF are like "Oh noez, you talked to a male colleague and exchanged a joke email with him, you loose woman you! Never talk to a man other than your husband, you slvt!"


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

That's extreme! I understand that we will all come into contact with members of the opposite sex on a day to day basis, and it's unrealistic to expect your husband or wife to completely avoid these normal interactions...OSFs require a delicate balance, case by case, couple by couple, like everything else.

Most of us know the difference between what's appropriate within the contexts of our marriages, and what isn't.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Oh, I wanted to clarify that I am not totally immune to other people's views of me (oh how I wish), just not under these particular circumstances.


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## CandieGirl (Apr 27, 2011)

Gotcha...and I don't care what other people think of me when I'm making an arse out of myself at the grocery store....but my poor husband sure gets embarrassed...


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## TryingToStayCalm (Dec 11, 2011)

Thundarr said:


> Yea that wouldn't have been an option for my wife. I mean the option to go overseas and live with some guy would have been her choice but letting her know I would file papers if she did that would have been my choice.


Why on earth would you file papers in such situation? 
I mean, if your wife cheated on you and then wanted to go overseas and live with some other guy, then yes, I'd understand that. But would you do that even if she didn't cheat on you?


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

TryingToStayCalm said:


> Why on earth would you file papers in such situation?
> I mean, if your wife cheated on you and then wanted to go overseas and live with some other guy, then yes, I'd understand that. But would you do that even if she didn't cheat on you?


Moving 5000-6000 miles away and living with a man for seven months seems like abandonment and would be enough to make me think she's not in the marriage. In your case apparently your hubby said okay. That makes it okay. I would not have said okay so her going would have been a problem.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

CandieGirl said:


> Just got a call from a former colleague (male) who invited me to breakfast tomorrow at his house with another former colleague (also male). I am going.
> 
> What would you do in this instance?


I would have breakfast with both of them in a restaurant. Maybe. It would be a little better if one of them was male. 

Then if one of them is a no show I am still ... ok.

But to be sure what ever I do my wife would know about it. I also have the option of inviting my wife along.

I would go to their home if my wife was also invited.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Thundarr said:


> I generally don't care what people think either, at least in most other aspects, I could care less. In this case however I don't want people pity my wife if they suspect foul play on my part or pity me if they suspect foul play on her part. Someone showing pity for me might make their nose bleed .


I do care. I do not want anyone thinking I am disrespecting my wife.

The appearance of something wrong can cause a problem down the road in unexpected ways.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

CandieGirl said:


> My husband will be coming with me. When we met, my friends automatically became his friends. Even though neither of these two guys has ever been inappropriate with me, I still wouldn't go alone to one of their homes. After all, I would not want my husband going alone to a woman's house
> 
> In other (rare) instances, the 3 of us have met at a restaurant for a Christmas outing. I probably wouldn't go if it was just one of them, mind you. Too much like a date for my liking. Even if it wasn't, you never know who you'll run into that might think it's something less than kosher.


This^^^

Ok. I am going to cross a boundary here.

I think CG is freaking awesome.

What she describes on this topic is the way I feel and behave.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

TryingToStayCalm said:


> Why on earth would you file papers in such situation?
> I mean, if your wife cheated on you and then wanted to go overseas and live with some other guy, then yes, I'd understand that. But would you do that even if she didn't cheat on you?


I think I would divorce her for even suggesting such a thing. I consider doing this completely unfaithful. I would not agree to my wife sharing a place with another man over the weekend let alone moving to another location and living with another man for months.

Living with another man would be unfaithful .. period.

BUT she would never do that ... she's my lady.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

TryingToStayCalm said:


> Why on earth would you file papers in such situation?
> I mean, if your wife cheated on you and then wanted to go overseas and live with some other guy, then yes, I'd understand that. But would you do that even if she didn't cheat on you?


I would do the same thing. There is no reason to be living with an OSF when you are married. None. My husband was 2 hours away from our family when he was attending school/working 6 years ago. He came home on the weekends. He was staying with a FAMILY we knew from church. There is no way in hell I would have been ok with him living with a single OSF. But then, he wouldn't be ok with me doing it either. Yes, for us, that would be enough to file the papers. If he were in the military, that would be different. But CHOOSING to go overseas to a job away from the family for 7 months...and living with another woman? No way in hell. He would look for a job closer to home or we would all go. Simple as that. I don't care if it would mean advancement in a company. His place is with our family, not living with some other woman.


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## tm84 (Jul 24, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Hypothetical question: How would you feel if your wife did have a lot of male friends, ones she was close to?


It wouldn't bother me at all, because I know how tight my wife's boundaries are. She had a chance to reconnect with an old flame when she went back to her home country for a visit early last year and didn't even think of contacting him while she was there. That, in itself, made my actions with the EA that much more glaringly bad.


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## TryingToStayCalm (Dec 11, 2011)

Thundarr, Maricha75, Entropy3000: I understand and respect that you have such views. You have every right to have them. But, to be honest, if I was married to you and you threatened to file papers for such reason... well, I guess I'd be first to file those papers. I'd understand if you told me that you'd miss me, that you'd be worried or even jealous - and in that case I'd honestly consider not going. But if you started threatening to file papers in such case ... well, that would be a deal breaker for me.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

TryingToStayCalm said:


> Thundarr, Maricha75, Entropy3000: I understand and respect that you have such views. You have every right to have them. But, to be honest, if I was married to you and you threatened to file papers for such reason... well, I guess I'd be first to file those papers. I'd understand if you told me that you'd miss me, that you'd be worried or even jealous - and in that case I'd honestly consider not going. But if you started threatening to file papers in such case ... well, that would be a deal breaker for me.


Well, fortunately, none of us have to live with that situation, right? Because, frankly, if my husband said he'd file first in that situation, I'd tell him to go for it. You are welcome to your views, but choosing to live with a friend of the opposite sex would be a deal breaker for me, so yes, I would file if it came to that point. But, since I have no reason to worry about such things, it's a moot point.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

TryingToStayCalm said:


> Thundarr, Maricha75, Entropy3000: I understand and respect that you have such views. You have every right to have them. But, to be honest, if I was married to you and you threatened to file papers for such reason... well, I guess I'd be first to file those papers. I'd understand if you told me that you'd miss me, that you'd be worried or even jealous - and in that case I'd honestly consider not going. But if you started threatening to file papers in such case ... well, that would be a deal breaker for me.


OK, I'm really finding this an interesting notion. And it's not entirely theoretical, since my wife does have to travel sometimes with her work and could sometimes be 24/7 in intense situations with members of the opposite sex in shared accommodation.

Obviously, this is between you and your husband, and if you guys feel you have considered the risks it's your decision.

I know I would be VERY uncomfortable if my wife proposed such an arrangement, but in my case my wife has already been unfaithful, so I think I have good reason. I would definitely oppose her doing something like this, but if she drew the line I'm not sure what I'd do. Technically, it's borderline to me whether she would be breaking our vows.

I also know I would not do such a thing with another woman under any circumstances. I wouldn't trust myself.

So two questions for you, if you are willing to answer them.

First, you are away from your husband for an extended period, and with another guy. How do you deal with your sexual urges in such a situation? How do you know that lust won't overpower you? What boundaries would you put in place for yourself?

Secondly, if your husband said, no I don't want you to go, it's not appropriate, and would not budge from that, but did not actually threaten divorce, what would you do? What compromises would you suggest in order to try and make him comfortable?

And a third questions I just thought of...does duration change things? IE going away for a week vs a year, for example?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

To each their own but I could not even fathom living with another man when married to another.

Does not compute. It seems inconceivable to me.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

TryingToStayCalm said:


> Thundarr, Maricha75, Entropy3000: I understand and respect that you have such views. You have every right to have them. But, to be honest, if I was married to you and you threatened to file papers for such reason... well, I guess I'd be first to file those papers.* I'd understand if you told me that you'd miss me, that you'd be worried or even jealous - and in that case I'd honestly consider not going.* But if you started threatening to file papers in such case ... well, that would be a deal breaker for me.


It would be "I'll miss you, and worry , be jealous, and it feels wrong". As departure date approached it would eventually be "I love you but we're not going to be okay if you go". 

I would consider leaving me for seven months and living with a guy AGAINST MY WISHES as abandonment and that's the official reason I'd list when filing. I don't know many people who would be okay with it. Some may be persuaded and many just wouldn't stand up for their beliefs about it. I would not be persuaded and I would stand firm in my belief that it's abandonment.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Wazza said:


> First, you are away from your husband for an extended period, and with another guy. How do you deal with your sexual urges in such a situation? How do you know that lust won't overpower you? What boundaries would you put in place for yourself?


 I'll be the 1st to admit, if the man was attractive and into me...and I was alone too Long without my husband.... It'd be EXTREMELY tempting to NOT go there ...after a time of aching to be held... Oh yeah... ........  Bridges of Mad*son County  comes to mind. I can surely see WHY that happened... 

Even though I consider my Morals very high...I am only human after all... I can emphasize with that situation & how she fell. Temptation like that is brutal (haven't walked it -but imaging is enough)... best to not allow it in the door.

I am a Physcial Toucher & TIME person... it is like a NEED... I would never do well being married to a Soldier or a man who traveled for long periods of time... I'd choose his taking a lessor paying job, me working too -WHATEVER it took to keep us close, his being home every night -or at least 4 nights out of the week. 

Yrs ago...my husband had the opportunity to take a higher paying job driving truck over the road....I told him ... I'd miss him TOO MUCH....it wouldn't be good....no amount of $$ was worth sacrificing our time.. Other jobs could be had....I'd get bored with just the kids, and girlfriends. In this day of skyping, it would HELP if your lover is away, but if they sucked at it (I know my husband is not a huge flirting scoundrel the way I would love if he was not in my presence)... it would just be very very difficult. Every passing day ...I'd be dying to be in his arms again. 

Just being honest. 

If there was ZERO attraction -however.. I could live with any man... if he was overweight, homely and not my type... It would never happen... I am very visual in what turns me on. And the thought of being with someone with folds & a big belly... ... No amount of temptation could bring me to that. My fantasies & some shapely rubber would surely be preferred. 

Give me some good plentiful porn -please, I'd say. BUt an attractive good looking man with some hormones flowing between the 2 of us... too close for comfort -when our spouses are miles & miles away & won't be back for months..... a recipe for a Storm of temptation (a torrential downpour!) ...someone is going to succumb to that ~ and the other is not going to be able to resist.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I'll be the 1st to admit, if the man was attractive and into me...and I was alone too Long without my husband.... It'd be EXTREMELY tempting to NOT go there ...after a time of aching to be held... Oh yeah... ........  Bridges of Mad*son County  comes to mind. I can surely see WHY that happened...
> 
> Even though I consider my Morals very high...I am only human after all...


:iagree: If only more people were humble and honest with themselves and able to admit this.

Well except in my case replace "man" for "woman"


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## TryingToStayCalm (Dec 11, 2011)

Wazza, I’m so happy someone finds it as interesting as I do. As to your questions:

Quote:
"First, you are away from your husband for an extended period, and with another guy. How do you deal with your sexual urges in such a situation? How do you know that lust won't overpower you? What boundaries would you put in place for yourself?"

Well, I obviously did miss sex during this period. And A LOT because we are pretty active in this department  BUT! I missed sex with my husband, so couldn’t even imagine someone else in his place. That’s just repulsive for me. And this is how it was the whole time overseas. As for setting boundaries, it’s simple: it’s how you’d behave with your (real) fried or your brother/sister. 

Quote:
"Secondly, if your husband said, no I don't want you to go, it's not appropriate, and would not budge from that, but did not actually threaten divorce, what would you do? What compromises would you suggest in order to try and make him comfortable?"

In this situation, I’d simply look for another accommodation and live alone or with other females (but I’d have to pay for it because I was staying in the company’s house and I didn’t have to pay the rent). I was planning to do that if my husband said something about being uncomfortable with this arrangement. But if he said “I don’t want you to go at all”, even if I was living alone/with females, then we would have to have a serious talk. I’d need to know exactly why is it, because if it was just because he didn’t trust me, then that wouldn’t be fair. I’ve never given him any reason to doubt in me. So this kind of “no” would be just unfair for me. 

Quote:
"And a third questions I just thought of...does duration change things? IE going away for a week vs a year, for example?"

For me the duration wouldn’t change it but I wouldn’t go away for more than a year. Not because of trust issues, but because I’d miss him too much. But I don’t understand couples that can’t even part for a week or two. For me it’s just lack of independence. But again, if someone is prone to cheating, the length doesn’t matter. These people can cheat on you if they are one evening away. 


All this led me to some reflections. I don’t understand why so many people can’t even consider this arrangement. Yes, we are sexual beings, and yes, it might be an unusual thing to do. But we aren’t sex machines with no brains and no willpower. And no love, for that matter, because if you really love someone and you are not in some kind of a crisis in your relationship, you simply wouldn’t imagine sleeping with someone else. Period. So if you know you wouldn’t trust yourself in such situation, I’d recommend rethinking your feelings for your spouse/partner or solving whatever issues your relationship might have. 
Having said that, if someone had a history of cheating, then for me this changes everything – in that case I simply couldn’t trust this person again (be that a mile or a thousand miles away). The truth is, when some wants to cheat or is prone to cheating, it doesn’t matter if he/she lives with you or on another continent. It’s the personality that matters.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

I think spouses whose husbands/ wifes spend weeks / months away from home should not have opposite sex friends. 
That is a terrible combination.

Its like smoking whilst working in an oil refinery.

My brother in law who works on an offshore oil rig became victim to that. His wife got pregnant for " her friend " who was a male.Even though I tried to tell him whilst she was pregnant that the child was not his. Even after the child was born he still didn't believe until he actually caught them.

I know many other men who have suffered the same fate.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

I stayed with a female friend, and her two other female roommates, for a few days when I came back to visit NYC. This was before we got married, and she didn't have a problem with it then. 

Now? It would depend on who the woman was. One of my closest, oldest friends is a lovely woman whom I adore. But she also happens to be married, 30 years my senior, and at least a hundred pounds overweight. If I booked a show or film back in the DC area and she offered her place to stay for that extended period of time, then my wife wouldn't have a problem with that whatsoever.

Now I also have this other female friend, who I've known for just as long. But she's single, closer in age to me, and use to have a crush on me back in the day. If she offered me her place my wife would not forbid me to stay, but she would be supremely uncomfortable with that. For her sake, and not because I'm petrified of falling into some affair, I'd not stay with her.

It's a case by case, friend by friend situation with us. We don't have any fast and hard rules about this stuff.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

TryingToStayCalm said:


> Wazza, I’m so happy someone finds it as interesting as I do. As to your questions:
> 
> Quote:
> "First, you are away from your husband for an extended period, and with another guy. How do you deal with your sexual urges in such a situation? How do you know that lust won't overpower you? What boundaries would you put in place for yourself?"
> ...


With this post you have clarified your position and it is much more reasonable to me. In particular, your response that you wouldn't live with the other guy if it was an issue to your husband is good.

You are right, if someone is willing to cheat it can happen in minutes not years.

Where I see it differently from you is this. 

I have needs - sexual, physical, emotional, social - that I share with my wife, and we meet each others needs. Leaving those needs unmet is dangerous because I will seek to meet them. So if things are bad between my wife and I, I might form a close friendship with someone of the opposite sex, and I end up emotionally investing in them rather than my wife. So my wife and I grow apart, plus there is the danger that my hormones might drive me crazy at some time and cause me to become sexual with the other woman.

You haven't experienced it yet, but you probably will. Think about this....when you meet someone else who is more attractive than your husband, what will you do? Because again, it will probably happen. Sometime when things are tense between you guys...too many bills, long hours at work, kids giving you grief. And someone comes along you have chemistry with, who doesn't have any of the baggage. How would you handle that?

I didn't get this stuff until that exact scenario happened to me. Have you thought about it? How do you plan to handle it?


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## jfv (May 29, 2012)

Men's friendships with women 'driven by sexual attraction' - Telegraph


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

TryingToStayCalm said:


> Wazza, I’m so happy someone finds it as interesting as I do. As to your questions:
> 
> Quote:
> "First, you are away from your husband for an extended period, and with another guy. How do you deal with your sexual urges in such a situation? How do you know that lust won't overpower you? What boundaries would you put in place for yourself?"
> ...


I liked your last post very much TryingToStayCalm. With your reasoning my wife would be able to get me to listen to the idea but in the end it may be an irreconcilable difference. At least I understand the logic behind your beliefs and while I respect your thought process I don't agree with the conclusion that it would not be too risky. It's hypothetical for me anyway though.


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## d0cking (Jul 26, 2012)

My wife an I have been married for almost 9 years now... I don't have any female friends... My wife has quite a few male friends... Most of them are customers from her former job... She has always had OSF and it has never bothered me... They have been more aquaintances than really friends... I've never had a problem with them untl we had a rough spell in our marriage... I asked her if there was enyone else.. she told me that she did not know... At that point I knew there was atleast an attraction for someone... She still claims it was never romantic.. just getting close.. But, I know if she said she did not know, then there was the notion... I told her to drop him.. be nice to him as a customer but no more sitting at his table talking of his hobbies and such... She now is self-employed and advertises some on her FB page... She had one guy start talking bussiness and moved to the chit chat and I was still ok with it until he started using the "baby"... but I know people use nick names sometimes, so I let it slide... but, when the sexual innuendos started and she just laughed them off... I had a problem.. Yeah, she blew them off but, I knew his motives... I asked her to cut him off.. got her to promis to police herself with these guys... I did not want any more pet guys calling her "baby"...and she did... well not two weeks later another guy out of the blue was just surfing the net wanting to chat... of course I knew what he was doing... but.. I let it ride so I could see how it played out... He started calling her "Boo"... ok.. that's nothing... he msged her regular on FB... one weekend he asks her to send him a picture to his phone.. I'm like what does he need with a picture of her on his phone (to get her number)... the texting starts.. it is regularly... and he would call some.... She was at her grandmothers house sitting with her... well he texts her and tells her to go into the bathroom and take a picture of her breast and send it to him... she says she told him that was not apropriate... she says she deleted those texts because she did not want her grandmother to see them... but she told me when I knew nothing and she did not have to mention it and I would have never know.... ok, she doesn't respond to him a for a couple weeks... then she answers his text again... he starts back asking for sexy pictures... I show concern but did not tell her to cut him off (I wanted her to do it).. it rocks on for a few days... I then tell her to cut him off... no more contact... she says she got mad because i pressed the issue... and is telling her friends that I will not let her have friends... I keep telling her she can have all the friends she wants... even OSF... But I will not tolerate some guy talking conversation that are not apropriate for a married person... This was last week... so... Last year I would have answered this by saying you must trust and not worry about the OS... Now... I say you still must trust your spouse/partner but understand that they are human and it is easy to get hooked into something you might not want before you realize that your feelings are in control!


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