# Self-Understanding



## Blew the best thing I had (Aug 20, 2014)

New member, please excuse any etiquette missteps. Wife found out about my 3 previous affairs 9 mos. ago, after all were stopped (doesn't make it right but it's a fact). She was 6 mos. pregnant at the time. Started both individual and a few couple therapy sessions (I’m still in individual weekly). Still trying to find out why - what made me do what I did. I had zero emotional attachment to any of the three, am still crazy in love with my wife and trying to reflect and understand what allowed me to silo everything. Since all three were work related, therapist is advising that it's a need to be acknowledged professionally. That's good but broad. Anyone have any experience / recommendation on reflection and self-discovery?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

How long ago were the affairs and do you still work w/ any of the 3 affair partners? How did your wife find out about them?


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## intuitionoramiwrong (Mar 18, 2014)

How did your wife find out? Were you remorseful? Do you think you can be better, put in the work and be transparent with her? No hiding accounts, emails, texts..etc? How is she doing?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Are you still with your wife?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Since you had no emotional attachment, it must have been about the sex. You wanted some strange. It doesn't have to be any more complicated than that.


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

My guess is that you're selfish, impulsive and have a severe lack of boundaries.

I also find it hard to believe that 3 affairs just magically landed themselves
onto your lap. In other words, you worked on them -
knowing full well what the ramifications would be, yet you continued.

Keep going to counseling and feel lucky if your wife sticks around.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Blew the best thing I had said:


> New member, please excuse any etiquette missteps. Wife found out about my 3 previous affairs 9 mos. ago, after all were stopped (doesn't make it right but it's a fact). She was 6 mos. pregnant at the time. Started both individual and a few couple therapy sessions (I’m still in individual weekly). Still trying to find out why - what made me do what I did. I had zero emotional attachment to any of the three, am still crazy in love with my wife and trying to reflect and understand what allowed me to silo everything. Since all three were work related, therapist is advising that it's a need to be acknowledged professionally. That's good but broad. Anyone have any experience / recommendation on reflection and self-discovery?


It's good that you're trying to understand why you cheated. That may lesson the chance you'll do it again.

But your first priority, assuming you are actually remorseful, should be to educate yourself on how to "demonstrate" remorse to your wife - to help her heal. Don't make her have to show you how. You can get plenty of advice from this forum; but don't stop there. Read and research.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

What does "acknowledge professionally" mean? You have a wife and at least (1) baby to support. 

Now you should find another job, if you still work with ANY of the three. (Jesus what industry are you in that you f--ked three coworkers??)

But if you confess to the affairs at work it could cost you your job and your professional reputation around the industry. You owe it to your family to work, not ruin your career. But perhaps this should have been thought if before you slept with three coworkers.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> What does "acknowledge professionally" mean?


I know, right? If he needs sexual adventures to be validated professionally, maybe he's in the wrong profession.

Sounds like counselorspeak for "I have no idea why you did it"


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Blew the best thing I had said:


> New member, please excuse any etiquette missteps. Wife found out about my 3 previous affairs 9 mos. ago, after all were stopped (doesn't make it right but it's a fact).


When people say "it doesn't make it right" what they're really saying is "it makes it a bit better".

Otherwise why say it?

And why say that because she found out about them after they were stopped? Because you stopped one before you started another and she caught you before you started a 4th?

Your rationalization escapes me. 

If you admitted the affairs on your own, prior to her suspecting and confronting you, then you get 1 star and you could use the expression "doesn't make it right".


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## Blew the best thing I had (Aug 20, 2014)

My wife is doing ok, really depends on the day. I am truly remorseful, am striving to remain transparent and upfront about everything she really wants me to try to understand what I was feeling during and I am struggling to recall any feelings. First one was 12 years ago, second was two, last was over a year. I have distanced unused from the one that my job could expose me to an ensured no interactions would be required for work. I feel like I have a handle on how to act going forward with ensuring I keep her informed and not keeping anything from her but i really want to be able to answer her as to what I felt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blew the best thing I had (Aug 20, 2014)

Hope1964 said:


> Are you still with your wife?


Yes,she hasn't made any decisions yet as to what she wants.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

If you still work w/ _*any*_ of these women, *you need to get a new job*.

PERIOD.

I'll ask again... how did your wife find out about the affairs?


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening BlewthebestthingIhad
Only you can figure out why you did it - and it is vitally important that you understand why so you will know if you will do it again. You don't need to tell anyone else, but be truly honest with yourself about your OWN reasons. If you understand why, you can figure out how to remove the reason, and then accept your wif'es forgiveness if she offers it.

Some possible reasons:
You wanted sex (of some form) - maybe you weren't getting what you wanted at home.

You wanted to feel wanted, were feeling taken for granted at home

You have poor impulse control.

You love too easily: It is too easy for you to let an acquaintance become a friendship -> love -> physical intimacy. Each step seems small..

You needed excitement - needed the adrenalin rush of doing something where you might get caught.

You are insecure and need the appreciation of others - and view sex as the ultimate sign of appreciation.

You were angry at your wife and wanted to "punish" her (maybe subconsciously).

You felt you had no control in your relationship and this was a way to show that you are not a slave.

You got drunk / stoned and lost any inhibitions

You feel you are getting old and this was a way to feel young again.



Lots of other possible reasons - these are just the first few that came to mind. Again tell yourself the truth - understand your own actions. If you tell other people here, expect to get shouted at a lot.


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## Blew the best thing I had (Aug 20, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> If you still work w/ _*any*_ of these women, *you need to get a new job*.
> 
> PERIOD.
> 
> I'll ask again... how did your wife find out about the affairs?


Anonymous phone call led her to look at my emails and texts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blew the best thing I had (Aug 20, 2014)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening BlewthebestthingIhad
> Only you can figure out why you did it - and it is vitally important that you understand why so you will know if you will do it again. You don't need to tell anyone else, but be truly honest with yourself about your OWN reasons. If you understand why, you can figure out how to remove the reason, and then accept your wif'es forgiveness if she offers it.
> 
> Some possible reasons:
> ...


I agree that all of the above are possibilities, but I'm struggling to recall thoughts / feelings at the time. I really want to understand, both for me and her. I get that knowing a vulnerability will allow me to avoid it going forward.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Were these women peers, subordinates, or supervisors?


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Don't overthink it. Sometimes the answer is you just can't control your hormones.

Sounds like you are at the same workplace with at least one of them. Can't happen.

So wife got an anonymous phone call, and you opened the floodgates and confessed to it all? I give you credit there. Glad you didn't deny it. Surely there weren't texts and emails that were 12 years old.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blew the best thing I had (Aug 20, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> Were these women peers, subordinates, or supervisors?


Peers
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Don't overthink it. Sometimes the answer is you just can't control your hormones.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Exactly. Like I said earlier, could it not be just that you wanted sex with someone new?


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

What I always do to find self-understanding is observing myself and taking a hard look at my motivations. It isn't just adultery or relationship specific. Sort of figuring out how my engine works, how I cope, and the thoughts that go through my head. The stuff that makes me 'me'.

So I might note the differences between how I am around girls versus guy friends. Then start asking myself why that might be like if I'm trying to impress them. I might note on a spectacularly stressful day how I deal with the stress and what I do. I start paying attention to how I make choices and the weird stuff that seems to affect them. And so on.... 

So basically, just start watching yourself closer without judgment. Over time you might spot a pattern and start making choices if that's really how you want to deal with stuff or if you want to change it. 

Some of it can get pretty deep like finding you can lie and get away with stuff as a kid. So it becomes your Plan A. Other things can be a 'people pleaser' type so you didn't say no when you should have. Some things might be a need to accepted by others and external validation because you aren't that good at finding it from within. Lots of things to look at and ponder about.

Once you sort of learn more about yourself, it helps answer some questions about the past and why you might have made those choices or started those dynamics leading to your downfall.


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## Blew the best thing I had (Aug 20, 2014)

Racer said:


> What I always do to find self-understanding is observing myself and taking a hard look at my motivations. It isn't just adultery or relationship specific. Sort of figuring out how my engine works, how I cope, and the thoughts that go through my head. The stuff that makes me 'me'.
> 
> So I might note the differences between how I am around girls versus guy friends. Then start asking myself why that might be like if I'm trying to impress them. I might note on a spectacularly stressful day how I deal with the stress and what I do. I start paying attention to how I make choices and the weird stuff that seems to affect them. And so on....
> 
> ...



Thanks for the advice, I've been trying to that to an extent, took an inventory of my personas and really try to observe how I interact at work. Definitely allowed conversations to veer into personal info, both with men and women and avoid letting that behavior continue. Trying to maintain tat questioning attitude of everything I do to get to the "why" of it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

This book might help you out

Dr. Shirley Glass - NOT "Just Friends"


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## Blew the best thing I had (Aug 20, 2014)

Hope1964 said:


> This book might help you out
> 
> Dr. Shirley Glass - NOT "Just Friends"


Thanks for the recommendation, I've been reading that and after the affair and another that covers helping support my wife and compares being betrayed to PTSD.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Blew the best thing I had said:


> Thanks for the recommendation, I've been reading that and after the affair and another that covers helping support my wife and compares being betrayed to PTSD.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Is it this one?

http://www.amazon.ca/Transcending-Post-Infidelity-Stress-Disorder-Healing/dp/1587613344?tag=vig07-20


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Blew the best thing I had said:


> Thanks for the recommendation, I've been reading that and after the affair and another that covers helping support my wife and compares being betrayed to PTSD.


Let me just tell you... it's *very*, *Very*, *VERY* similar.

Try this book as well...

Amazon.com - How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful by Linda J. MacDonald

You'll note that it's available in several formats, including as a free PDF download from the author's website.


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## 10th Engineer Harrison (Dec 11, 2013)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening BlewthebestthingIhad
> Only you can figure out why you did it - and it is vitally important that you understand why so you will know if you will do it again. You don't need to tell anyone else, but be truly honest with yourself about your OWN reasons. If you understand why, you can figure out how to remove the reason, and then accept your wif'es forgiveness if she offers it.
> 
> Some possible reasons:
> ...


Cool list. None of it matters, though.

-ol' 2long


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## dignityhonorpride (Jan 2, 2014)

Hope1964 said:


> Exactly. Like I said earlier, could it not be just that you wanted sex with someone new?


This sounds just a bit casual to me. 

It's not "just" that you wanted sex with someone new. It's that your selfish desire to have sex with someone new, at any cost to your wife and your marriage and your career, encouraged you to overlook your moral compass / value system / vows / etc. 

Just my $0.02 as a wife who was betrayed (with several OW) for "just" sex.

OP -- keep supporting your wife. Dig deep. It's going to be a long road -- years.


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

So you were on a good wicket and you stuffed it all up. How did the wife find out?

Are you still at the same job. If you want to save your marriage you will have to do some serious damage control, which means acknowledging your wifes hurt and showing open transparency in regards to your future whereabouts, phone, and email accounts etc


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

dignityhonorpride said:


> This sounds just a bit casual to me.
> 
> It's not "just" that you wanted sex with someone new. It's that your selfish desire to have sex with someone new, at any cost to your wife and your marriage and your career, encouraged you to overlook your moral compass / value system / vows / etc.
> 
> ...


Yep.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Sports Fan said:


> So you were on a good wicket and you stuffed it all up. How did the wife find out?
> 
> Are you still at the same job. If you want to save your marriage you will have to do some serious damage control, which means acknowledging your wifes hurt and showing open transparency in regards to your future whereabouts, phone, and email accounts etc


Yep. I'll say it again...

OP, _if you are still working w/ *any* of these women, *you need to find a new job ASAP.*_ This will go _light years_ toward showing your BW that you're sincere w/ respect to helping her to heal from your betrayals. This is absolutely necessary for a successful reconciliation of your marriage.


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

"...Since all three were work related, therapist is advising that it's a need to be acknowledged professionally. That's good but broad. Anyone have any experience / recommendation on reflection and self-discovery?"

So let me get this straight, you did it with your bosses? Okay if they weren't your bosses, it makes no sense. If they were your bosses, you were seeking a promotion?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

He said they were peers...



GusPolinski said:


> Were these women peers, subordinates, or supervisors?





Blew the best thing I had said:


> Peers


Obviously we don't have the whole picture here, but I'm thinking that, if he were looking for any sort of validation from these women, each of the affairs would've had a significant EA component to them, and he's already said that wasn't the case...



Blew the best thing I had said:


> New member, please excuse any etiquette missteps. Wife found out about my 3 previous affairs 9 mos. ago, after all were stopped (doesn't make it right but it's a fact). She was 6 mos. pregnant at the time. Started both individual and a few couple therapy sessions (I’m still in individual weekly). Still trying to find out why - what made me do what I did. *I had zero emotional attachment to any of the three*, am still crazy in love with my wife and trying to reflect and understand what allowed me to silo everything. Since all three were work related, therapist is advising that it's a need to be acknowledged professionally. That's good but broad. Anyone have any experience / recommendation on reflection and self-discovery?


Either way, I don't quite see how "Regina, can you check my numbers on the spreadsheet for last quarter?" leads to "Let's f*ck in the break room." To me it sounds more like availability and opportunity lead to office sex.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Blew the best thing I had said:


> New member, please excuse any etiquette missteps. Wife found out about my 3 previous affairs 9 mos. ago, after all were stopped (doesn't make it right but it's a fact). She was 6 mos. pregnant at the time. Started both individual and a few couple therapy sessions (I’m still in individual weekly). Still trying to find out why - what made me do what I did. I had zero emotional attachment to any of the three, am still crazy in love with my wife and trying to reflect and understand what allowed me to silo everything. Since all three were work related, therapist is advising that it's a need to be acknowledged professionally. That's good but broad. Anyone have any experience / recommendation on reflection and self-discovery?


I don't think if would take too much deep thought or professional acknowledgement or whatever the therapist came up with to find billing time. Affairs with co-workers happens all the time. Its convenience.

Men don't need emotional attachment, women tend to need that for sex hence the mystery call to your wife from one of the women at work who probably started having an emotional attachment to you. 

As others have said it could have been just a simple as opportunity knocked and you didn't think you would get caught. You went several years between number 1 and 2. What was different during that time than between 2 and 3 which happened quicker?


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

It seems to me you are asking "How could I do this to the woman I love? What kind of person does this and continues to do it?" as if it was a different person than yourself.

From the outside perspective, it's really not that complicated. You have a biological drive to have sex with other women and that drive overrode your loyalty to your wife. There could be a number of other reasons (which the posters have stated) particular to you or your circumstances, but ultimately it comes down to self-control. That is the big thing you will need to work on.


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## Blew the best thing I had (Aug 20, 2014)

staystrong said:


> It seems to me you are asking "How could I do this to the woman I love? What kind of person does this and continues to do it?" as if it was a different person than yourself.
> 
> From the outside perspective, it's really not that complicated. You have a biological drive to have sex with other women and that drive overrode your loyalty to your wife. There could be a number of other reasons (which the posters have stated) particular to you or your circumstances, but ultimately it comes down to self-control. That is the big thing you will need to work on.


Ok, how can you find out what allows you to give in though? What my defect? If it's just looking to be a "big shot" at he office and wanting to feel important, what can I do to remember what I felt?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blew the best thing I had (Aug 20, 2014)

honcho said:


> I don't think if would take too much deep thought or professional acknowledgement or whatever the therapist came up with to find billing time. Affairs with co-workers happens all the time. Its convenience.
> 
> Men don't need emotional attachment, women tend to need that for sex hence the mystery call to your wife from one of the women at work who probably started having an emotional attachment to you.
> 
> As others have said it could have been just a simple as opportunity knocked and you didn't think you would get caught. You went several years between number 1 and 2. What was different during that time than between 2 and 3 which happened quicker?


After the first, I swore I never do it again. After the second time, I felt like I was living in two different worlds and totally selected everything. Not sure what was really different.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blew the best thing I had (Aug 20, 2014)

Hope1964 said:


> Is it this one?
> 
> http://www.amazon.ca/Transcending-Post-Infidelity-Stress-Disorder-Healing/dp/1587613344?tag=vig07-20


Yes, just started reading this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

OP, is it possible that the idea that "what she doesn't know won't hurt her" is just a part of how you view the world? Are you a "better to ask forgiveness than permission" sort of guy?

If so, that's probably got a lot to do with crappy boundaries, impulse control problems and some family-of-origin issues (just the way you were raised, or how you saw your parents interact). What you were feeling during the affairs may be less vital than understanding why the over-riding part of you thought this would be an okay thing to do. My guess is that, at a fundamental level, you just don't respect your wife and don't have much empathy for her. It may be that you lack empathy/respect for others in general, for wives or women specifically, or for your wife in particular. In any case, something in your character really didn't mind doing this to your wife. Repeatedly. 

I would ask your therapist to help you figure out how to improve your boundaries and develop true empathy. It doesn't sound like your current therapist really understands infidelity, though, so it might be time to find one who has a lot of actual experience in that area.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Blew the best thing I had said:


> Ok, how can you find out what allows you to give in though? What my defect? If it's just looking to be a "big shot" at he office and wanting to feel important, what can I do to remember what I felt?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Tattoo your wife's face above your pube line. That should turn off (most) women if you get to the staging area. 

All joking aside, you can be a big shot by succeeding at your work, not scoring with office women. Part of this is just reframing your character and what you think being a man is, or how you get validation from other men and women. If you feel something stirring, pick up the phone and call your wife, ask her how her day is going. Talk sexy with her, tell her you love her.

Maybe there are aspects of your personality or behavior you should focus on. Perhaps you like to push the envelope with flirtation, jokes, talking about others to make yourself look bigger. Try to refrain from the extreme form of that behavior and see if you even miss that behavior. Maybe you will start to look at things differently, and view all that stuff as a waste of your time. Try to be more in tune with what's really important in life. Your wife and your family should be your principal concern in addition to your own personal achievements. That's the stuff which is fulfilling in an 'integrated' way. It's internal validation versus external validation. Otherwise you'll never be satisfied unless you make another conquest. Some people continue that behavior until they are caught or it destroys their marriage or someone else's marriage. 

Basically, just try to be a better man for one woman, and she will reward you greatly. And ask yourself this, would you still be able to be king of the office jungle if you were some divorced cheater? Perhaps being married is what drives other women to see you as more attractive. Maybe your success was partially banked on the fact that there's a woman at home who actually gives a real damn about you, your past, your future, and your future together.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Here's the part that confuses me. You say you love your wife yet carried on not one but three affairs. By definition intentionally hurting someone isn't love. Does she have doubts about what you say? How committed to reconciliation is she or is still contemplating divorce?


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Blew the best thing I had said:


> After the first, I swore I never do it again. After the second time, I felt like I was living in two different worlds and totally selected everything. Not sure what was really different.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


When I caught my wife cheating, turned out she had been serially cheating for close to 7 years off and on with 3 OM. That "why" has a lot to do with the very 1st time you crossed the line. 

For my wife... she explained that the very first time she "cheated" it changed her. She was guilty and could never go back to "purity", her words. From there it was just another lie another betrayal, "what's the difference the punishment is the same." 

The "I swore I would never do it again"... is the Serial Cheater Mantra.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> Here's the part that confuses me. You say you love your wife yet carried on not one but three affairs. By definition intentionally hurting someone isn't love. Does she have doubts about what you say? How committed to reconciliation is she or is still contemplating divorce?


Yea I am having issues with this as well. 

I mean are you just not recalling when either one of you said lets fvck ? I mean I know it just didn't happen that way, but that moment you just don't forget.. 

Just sounds like you have amnesia or something on how all of this went down. As was mentioned you talk about yourself in the third person almost when it comes to these affairs. 

Trying to reconcile is going to be very rough if you can't be honest about this stuff. Therapy is going to be a waste of time as well. 

Just seems like you're afraid to admit your true feelings about what went on during the affair or the start of it at least.

I mean honestly no one says, My marriage is great.. My spouse is great in the sack... I have a wonderful life and kids, but I just want to fvck someone else for sh!ts and giggles..


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

RWB said:


> ... She was guilty and could never go back to "purity", her words. From there it was just another lie another betrayal, "what's the difference the punishment is the same."


I would add to this that in addition to the above, there's also often an element of "no one got hurt the first time, so where's the harm in a little more" in subsequent cheating. That first time is hard, the cheater is scared they'll get caught, it feels terribly risky. But then....they don't get caught, their world doesn't implode, no one gets hurt , and they get away with it. So, the second time is easier because they know - for a fact - that they can do it and there are no unpleasant repercussions. They know there's not really all that much risk, that with a few very simple precautions, they can have their marriage and their bit on the side from time to time. 

Serial cheaters aren't magical. They aren't even special snowflakes. They cheat because they want to and they _know they can. _

Think of the first time you dove off the high diving board. It seemed so high, you were afraid you'd fall, that you'd hurt yourself, that you'd drown after hitting the water so far below you. But the second time, it wasn't as scary. By the third or fourth time, you didn't even really worry about the horrible end you'd been so sure would be yours before that first dive. It's easy. By then, it's just all fun and no worries. Because you know you can do this and nothing bad is going to happen.


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> He said they were peers...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the clarification. The therapist can't say that without a reason though and banging the peers won't give "professional acknowledgement"...Sounds like some details are missing? It means therefore that you marked your territory 3 times at the office? :rofl: (Sorry, couldn't help it!) And if so, wouldn't once be enough? Was it a strategy to get rid of the internal competition or was it that the "bang-her" position eventually had a high turn-over rate?


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Blew the best thing I had said:


> Ok, how can you find out what allows you to give in though? What my defect? If it's just looking to be a "big shot" at he office and wanting to feel important, what can I do to remember what I felt?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dude...its got nothing to do with looking like a big shot at work and everything to do with convenience, proximity and availability of new lady bits.

Theres really no "defect" in you. You acted on something most of us don't, but vary many do and never admit to.

Reflection and introspection is great. But there's no reason to complicate this. Having sex with different women is fun and exciting. And thats what you wanted. At those times the allure was stronger than your need for fidelity. There doesnt need to be more to it then that. 

You don't have to have a rough past, come from a broken home, never been loved, insecure or any of the other BS that makes counsellors rich.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

This is starting to remind me of the "Sexual Healing" episode of South Park.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Blew the best thing I had said:


> My wife is doing ok, really depends on the day. I am truly remorseful, am striving to remain transparent and upfront about everything she really wants me to try to understand what I was feeling during and I am struggling to recall any feelings. First one was 12 years ago, second was two, last was over a year. I have distanced unused from the one that my job could expose me to an ensured no interactions would be required for work. I feel like I have a handle on how to act going forward with ensuring I keep her informed and not keeping anything from her but i really want to be able to answer her as to what I felt.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Before you move forwward...two things

1. BE HONEST, first with yourself...and then you'll find it easier with everyone else. DO NOT temper your answers to anything to "make it easier" or to "reduce the pain". Your wife needs honesty, not kid gloves. You're not telling her her puppy died, you're telling her why HER perception of her marriage died.

2. Look at your affairs...who was the aggressor, you or your APs? Honestly!! Someone fished (put out feelers to see if going sexual was a possibility). Someone was the first flirter (taking the bait from the fishing). Someone was the bigger instigator.

Who was that?


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

sinnister said:


> Dude...its got nothing to do with looking like a big shot at work and everything to do with convenience, proximity and availability of new lady bits.
> 
> Theres really no "defect" in you. You acted on something most of us don't, but vary many do and never admit to.
> 
> ...


Counselors get rich?...Nope, this is the reason divorce lawyers get rich...If you want this lifestyle get a divorce and bang new broads until kingdom come. Don't drag an innocent woman into a false pretense of a marriage and beget children with her, to suffer the consequences of the "banging-new-broads-is-fun" complex.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Looking for a defect? 

Look at your character. 

Character would define your beliefs on betrayal. 

These beliefs would encourage you to set boundaries to protect your character. 

Your lack of character allowed you to justify your actions.


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## Blew the best thing I had (Aug 20, 2014)

Dad&Hubby said:


> Before you move forwward...two things
> 
> 1. BE HONEST, first with yourself...and then you'll find it easier with everyone else. DO NOT temper your answers to anything to "make it easier" or to "reduce the pain". Your wife needs honesty, not kid gloves. You're not telling her her puppy died, you're telling her why HER perception of her marriage died.
> 
> ...


I really don't think I initiated it, but I was defintely receptive and I'm aware of that. And I have been patently honest with my wife; I just continue to struggle with "What were you feeling at the time" questions.


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## Blew the best thing I had (Aug 20, 2014)

Wolf1974 said:


> Here's the part that confuses me. You say you love your wife yet carried on not one but three affairs. By definition intentionally hurting someone isn't love. Does she have doubts about what you say? How committed to reconciliation is she or is still contemplating divorce?


She hasn't made a decision either way; she really wants to understand why I did what I did before deciding. I don't think she has doubts about what I've told her, just more questions.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Blew the best thing I had said:


> I really don't think I initiated it, but I was defintely receptive and I'm aware of that. And I have been patently honest with my wife; I just continue to struggle with "What were you feeling at the time" questions.


So you have self esteem issues that are fed by outside validation with poor boundaries and are sexually excited to "conquer" new "territory".

Drop this "I don't remember" BS.

You know what you were thinking.

"Hehe she finds me attractive" :smthumbup:
"I wonder how far she'll go" 
"She really digs me" :smthumbup:
"I wonder if I can shag her?" 

Done deal. The problem is at no point were you thinking of your marriage or your wife. You "compartmentalized" which is translation for - you thought about yourself, your ego, your desire and sex....and didn't think about anything more.

It's called being selfish....and yes sometimes that's all it is. You're selfish and in turn a bad husband. It doesn't mean you can't learn from this..but still.


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## Blew the best thing I had (Aug 20, 2014)

Dad&Hubby said:


> So you have self esteem issues that are fed by outside validation with poor boundaries and are sexually excited to "conquer" new "territory".
> 
> Drop this "I don't remember" BS.
> 
> ...


Oh, I totally have acknowledged and tried to explain my selfishness, thoughtlessness, ego-stroking but I struggle with understanding why I gave in. Ok, I'm weak, weaker than most, but how can I find out what about me makes me weak? What makes others stronger than me? I never aspired to do these types of things and my character and past deeds don't show a pattern of this type of behavior. Something about me or my makeup allowed me to risk my family and my career. How to I identify that and correct it? I've been given insight that the value is just knowing my Achille's heel and remaining aware of it but I think there should be more, hence my initial post: What's the best way to conduct self-reflection / self-evaluation / self-understanding?


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Where any of you conquests married women?


If so, I can think of a good way to learn to keep your hands to yourself. You'd deserve every lick of it.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

Blew the best thing I had said:


> What's the best way to conduct self-reflection / self-evaluation / self-understanding?


With a therapist who knows what the fvck they are doing. "Need to be acknowledged professionally" my a$$.


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

Your search for self understanding will move forward when you can answer: what would you give yourself permission to do if you knew nobody would ever find out? And why would you give yourself permission to do such things?


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## Cabsy (Mar 25, 2013)

You keep asking those questions, but I think plenty of people have given you simple and reasonable answers despite your selective amnesia about how these affairs came into bloom. Having three affairs is not happenstance or coincidence. You might have taken a slide down the slippery slope the first time, but you came back for seconds and thirds, and you probably would have kept going... but unfortunately you got caught. Damn anonymous tipsters.

How do you correct your weaknesses? Don't bang other women. Don't flirt with other women, don't allow them to flirt with you, don't have deep conversations with them, and don't allow yourself to get into compromising situations. Keep your wife first in your life and don't look for justifications to screw around. Simple stuff, man. You're reading a book on the subject. If you can't figure it out, or you can't control yourself, then you should probably cut your wife free; because if you give yourself an inch, judging by past behavior, you'll probably take it.

I sincerely hope that the only marriage you disrespected is your own, and that all three of these other women were unattached at the time.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

OP, were any of them married?


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Blew the best thing I had said:


> Oh, I totally have acknowledged and tried to explain my selfishness, thoughtlessness, ego-stroking but I struggle with understanding why I gave in. Ok, I'm weak, weaker than most, but how can I find out what about me makes me weak? What makes others stronger than me? I never aspired to do these types of things and my character and past deeds don't show a pattern of this type of behavior. Something about me or my makeup allowed me to risk my family and my career. How to I identify that and correct it? I've been given insight that the value is just knowing my Achille's heel and remaining aware of it but I think there should be more, hence my initial post: What's the best way to conduct self-reflection / self-evaluation / self-understanding?


Why are you selfish?

Why is the sky blue?

Why is water wet?

Sometimes the answer isn't some deep psychological issue.

Maybe your parents picked you up out of your crib the moment you started crying. Maybe they bought you every toy you cried for when you were 3. Who knows why you developed this entitled and selfish perspective. The important thing is to change it.


Here's a challenge
Go work in a mission at a food bank every saturday morning for a year. Look at your most prized possession, like a motorcycle...(nothing that is actually useful for your family) and donate it to charity. Do some things that are PAINFUL to you personally but show sacrifice...then find the joy in your sacrifice. That'll help teach you the proper mentality.


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## Lister (Jan 29, 2013)

OP, I had affair with co-worker. I had amnesia about the 'what was i feeling, why did i do it' too, for a long time. I considered my childhood, upbringing, issues with my marriage, lack of self esteem, work issues and a whole lot more.

Answers actually were:

- I liked AP
- AP was available and liked me
- An opportunity arose to have a PA
- I took the opportunity without any thought to the consequences.

It's horrible to realise that it was as simple as that, but there it is. I continued the A for nearly 3 years until D Day because i carried on liking her, she carried on being available, the opportunity remained.

best to be honest with yourself and everyone else about this otherwise neither you or your partner will be able to reconcile. 

in terms of avoiding it happening again it's not rocket science. Don't ever do it again! Full stop.


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## Lister (Jan 29, 2013)

By the way, our MC was woeful and actually enabled me to avoid the real issues and spent more time focusing on my wife and her behaviour than my own. We havn't been back to a counsellor since. i think it might be a good idea but the experience has put my wife off seeing another MC.


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## Lister (Jan 29, 2013)

No harm in reading No More Mr Nice Guy either. 

www.amazon.co.uk/No-More-MR-Nice-Guy/dp/0762415339

I read the opening chapter and realised it was about me.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Lister said:


> By the way, our MC was woeful and actually enabled me to avoid the real issues and spent more time focusing on my wife and her behaviour than my own. We havn't been back to a counsellor since. i think it might be a good idea but the experience has put my wife off seeing another MC.


All too common.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Blew the best thing I had said:


> Oh, I totally have acknowledged and tried to explain my selfishness, thoughtlessness, ego-stroking but I struggle with understanding why I gave in. Ok, I'm weak, weaker than most, but how can I find out what about me makes me weak? What makes others stronger than me? I never aspired to do these types of things and my character and past deeds don't show a pattern of this type of behavior. Something about me or my makeup allowed me to risk my family and my career. How to I identify that and correct it? I've been given insight that the value is just knowing my Achille's heel and remaining aware of it but I think there should be more, hence my initial post: What's the best way to conduct self-reflection / self-evaluation / self-understanding?


Blew the Best Thing I Had, 

I would like to begin my reply to you by reminding you that the vast majority of those who reply to you on this thread are going to be Loyal Spouses, not spouse who have been disloyal. This makes a difference because just like Loyal Spouses say we can never understand their pain--they also can not understand our confusion, and I'd say about 9 times out of 10 when we do try to figure out "why" it's seen as blameshifting or whatnot. So just keep that in consideration as you read through some of the responses. 

Next, I'd like to give you my short story so you know where I'm coming from. I was a Loyal Spouse in my first marriage and my exH's Wistress lived in another state. He left me, our two kids, and our business to go be with her, and we divorced. Having been betrayed like that, if you had asked me I would have sworn up one side and down the other that I could NEVER be a Disloyal Spouse because I did not have that flaw in my character. 

However, I met my current Dear Hubby, and after being married for several years, we found out I was pregnant and then lost the baby. After some medical checkups thereafter we found out we could no longer conceive and that was devastating for both of us. His way of mourning was to retreat into the man cave and my way of mourning was to be emotional and cry and need comfort. At the time I remember feeling so shut out of his life that I could have lit myself on fire and he would not have noticed or responded. 

So since he was ignoring me, I starting playing a game (not WoW or Halo--lol) that I enjoyed and had always wanted to try, but he didn't really like. It involved making forum websites and writing legal documents and contracts, and a lot of imagination so I loved that. Mistake #1 was becoming involved in something that excluded my spouse. I was good at that game and some people took notice, and there was were several who were highly complimentary, and this made me feel good. Mistake #2 was allowing people other than my spouse to meet my need for admiration. Then one guy REALLY took notice and he literally bowled me over with compliments and attention and interest. Mistake #3 was not being prepared with a defensive barrier against this kind of attention; I was caught by surprise and honestly, I enjoyed it. What I literally thought at the time was "WOW someone finds me interesting! Me!" I know that no Loyal Spouse likes to hear it, but I did not feel like my Dear Hubby was even aware of my existence, and by contrast the OM was intrigued and wanted to know more and at least acted like what he knew of me, he liked. So I kept crossing little boundaries and making excuses. Mistake #4 was not setting firm boundaries and then guarding those boundaries literally with my life.  NEVER cross a self-set boundary!! Obviously, as things progressed, part of me knew it was wrong and I was unfaithful, but like every other disloyal spouse, I made excuses like "Oh we've never met--it's all fantasy and online" or "Oh it's not like my spouse cares" ...that kind of stuff. When it got to the point that it was sexting online, I really KNEW it was wrong but by then I felt in over my head and it felt like I slipped down the slope I never wanted to slip down and then got hit by a train moving too fast to stop. 

Soooo...you can see that I have been in your shoes. I am by character a very honest, dedicated person, so one of the things that drove me nuts was "HOW could I do this?" If that's not who I am, and I had even been betrayed before, how did this happen? Right? Here's my personal opinion (and I am positive that many will disagree with me here): 

First, I think that almost anyone COULD be a disloyal spouse if the right maelstrom of events hit them. We all have baggage; we all have issues and ****** in our armor, and if the right things came up and the right time to poke at your *****, I think maybe 90-95% of living human beings have the capability to be unfaithful. I personally envision it like we all have little timebombs inside us that may or may not be triggered...and sometimes the events just do not occur to set them off. Here's the truth: people can choose the wrong thing, people often choose in their own self-interest, and people like to feel good. Thus I'm not convinced it's a matter of "weakness" so much as it's human nature to make a really bad choice and a lot of people will then try to cover it up, defend the bad choice, or blame someone else rather than doing the right thing, eating some crow for what they chose, and being personally responsible.

Second, I think that in your case, in your first affair you did it, you more or less "got away with it" and you didn't learn anything from it. Thus nothing changed, and you were still just as open to infidelity. I note that a long time went by between your first and your second affair, so my just "educated guess" if you will is that something happened around the timing of your first affair that set up a timebomb in you. Maybe the birth of a child or the loss of a parent or sibling. I know my exH had an affair when our second was born because he was premature and had some health issues, and exH was NOT prepared to deal with a "less than perfect" child--I think he needed the validation he was still studly. Your second affair and your third affair were closer together, and my good guess is that you "got away with" your second one and it was enjoyable and you didn't change or grow or learn a life lesson from the second one, so the third one came along and was a familiar way for you to deal with wanting to feel admired for being you. You already did it before and you knew how to get admiration that way, so you did it again. 

For me I found the best way to conduct self-reflection and self-understanding was reading the books on infidelity but also books on things like the Myers-Briggs personality and 5 Love Languages and questionnaires on Marriage Builders so that I could know "about" me and what I have a stronger need for and what I have a weaker need for. As an example, from doing these kinds of basic tests about me, I not only learned that I am an INFP but also that my Dear Hubby is INTP and thus a THINKER. This was key in discovering that he was not withdrawing from me when he mourned but rather THINKING. That's how he "deals with' things--he thinks them through and when he's reached a conclusion, he's back. Likewise he learned that I deal with things externally by feeling them and if I'm riding a wave of very intense feelings such as sorrow, my "thinking" pretty much stops! Since I know that about myself, I've also learned to never, ever make any decision while in an intensely emotional state--always wait until my brain comes back on and I can think it through. If I decide via emotion, it's like everything is irrational and kneejerk...and decisions based on emotion change when the emotions change, so they are not dependable! 

As I read through Myers-Briggs, I journaled and shared it with my Dear Hubby. As I took the Emotional Needs questionnaire, I journaled about it and shared it with my Dear Hubby. I know what HIS emotional needs are and he knows what mine are, and armed with that knowledge he knows that I'm one of those unique females that needs admiration and not as much affection--whereas he is a man who needs family support and his love language is deeds, so I show my love to him by doing one of his chores or some special thing around the house. 

THEN armed with all that knowledge--Myers-Briggs, Love Languages, ENs and LBs, it wasn't hard to see my ****** at all. I am vulnerable to emotions. I am vulnerable to admiration. i am vulnerable to words of affection (compliments). I KNOW these things about myself. And because I've shared with my Dear Hubby I know where he's vulnerable too and I make the effort to be sure he gets his vulnerabilities from me! And the final piece was putting together "Well I'm vulnerable to admiration but at the time we miscarried, I was feeling like an old, dried up, shriveled up prune who would never be desirable and luscious again...and at that moment of opportunity along came someone who also hit my vulnerable button." 

So part of it is how your past contributed to forming "what you need." Part of it is figuring out your vulnerabilities and personality tendencies. Part of it is evaluating what was going on "at the time" that set off the internal timebomb. And part of it is making sure to take personal responsibility and CHANGE so that means doing something new and different than you did before. 

Hope you find this helpful.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

As you go through all your thought processes about why you cheated, remind yourself that no event made you do it. You were always free to make the right choice.

All those permutations of neediness or deficits in your life or senses of entitlement, you could have had better self control--always.

If that were not so, then you are cursed to cheat forever more.

Your potential for self control is no different now than it was when you were cheating.


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

Blew the best thing I had said:


> New member, please excuse any etiquette missteps. Wife found out about my 3 previous affairs 9 mos. ago, after all were stopped (doesn't make it right but it's a fact). She was 6 mos. pregnant at the time. Started both individual and a few couple therapy sessions (I’m still in individual weekly). Still trying to find out why - what made me do what I did. I had zero emotional attachment to any of the three, am still crazy in love with my wife and trying to reflect and understand what allowed me to silo everything. *Since all three were work related, therapist is advising that it's a need to be acknowledged professionally.* That's good but broad. Anyone have any experience / recommendation on reflection and self-discovery?


Well. :scratchhead:

What line of work are you in that a married person who has cheated with three coworkers fulfills a need for professional acknowledgement? :scratchhead::rofl:

You also state that needing professional acknowledgement is a good but broad reason? So this "reason" your therapist provided to you makes sense to you?

This is by far one of the oddest things I've ever read as a "reason" for cheating. If I were you, I would ask your therapist if he/she meant to say this and if they respond with "yes," your next step should be to cancel any remaining appointments and go find another therapist. Perhaps also consider asking (demanding?) for a refund while you're at it


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