# Are ultimatums cruel?



## Guth (Oct 23, 2015)

Married 20 years, three kids, two kids out of the nest. So common at this stage for couples to split. I'm in the boat. 

First 17 years NEVER thought I'd leave her. Three years ago started looking at her differently, but dismissed the idea of divorce. As of April 2016 we had a long talk and it didn't register with her how serious I was. Not even close. She thinks we are going live together forever. 

Everyone says "get counseling". I feel a counselor would not help because basically it would be like telling her to reformat her personality. She doesn't like to go outside much. If we are at a beautiful park on a summer evening at sunset, she wouldn't want to sit down together hold hands and take it in. At the end of the day she doesn't come sit next to me to talk, put her hand on my leg, make me feel like a good man and her companion. She is just a stump, I guess you could say. We could go to the most romantic mountain village and all she'd do is meander behind me as we walk, and think about getting back to the hotel where she'd hole herself up with the curtains closed. 

Her father is Chinese, and mother traditional conservative Siamese. I am thinking it's cultural, though my wife sure embraces America. One thing for sure-- she's a beautiful woman and her genetics are to thank for our kids who are very good looking. Daughter could be a movie star; stunning, like her mother but even more so. So I guess it was her good looks and strong sex drive that kept me thinking I was a lucky guy all along.

I could setup a meeting with her again and tell her that I can't stand the thought of spending the rest of my life with someone who wants to stay indoors, doesn't naturally walk by my side, has zero romantic inclination, doesn't like nature, etc etc etc. Not to mention the fact that I'm bitter at her for 20 years of me having to mind the kids' homework, sports, etc.

The best thing would be an ultimatum, but how could that work? It's like telling a dog not to bark. I'm thinking to get our finances really clean and then do a quick break, mid next year.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

You should stick with one thread. 

Ultimatums don't work. Actions work. If you want out, file divorce papers. 

You want a different person from who she is. What is your ultimatum? That she change into a new person?

Why don't you change first and show her how it is done?

Why wait til next year? It is not fair to her or you. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Guth, 
I remember your story.
I still think that you are messing up, although her unwillingness to clean up after herself or the kids, or contribute anything helpful is indeed annoying. 
You are saying your unhappiness is all her fault. I think your unhappiness is all YOUR fault. Pay a cleaning lady, get a hobby, meet some new friends, add some excitement to your life, and go home and have the great sex with your wife you like having sex with so much.
Why all this complaining and bellyaching about her all the time instead of just doing what you want? I guess I'm biased. I'd go do my fishing and hunting and outdoor stuff and come home and have sex with my sexy wife and still be pretty darned happy. 
You sit around and complain that she's not exciting enough, not affectionate enough, not interesting enough.
Make yourself happy. Don't depend on another person.
I see that you just want someone to share things with. If you're miserable though, it's not all her fault. You could be happy if you focused on doing things that make you happy and not on how she's preventing it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Guth (Oct 23, 2015)

Evinrude58 said:


> Guth,
> I remember your story.
> I still think that you are messing up, although her unwillingness to clean up after herself or the kids, or contribute anything helpful is indeed annoying.
> You are saying your unhappiness is all her fault. I think your unhappiness is all YOUR fault. Pay a cleaning lady, get a hobby, meet some new friends, add some excitement to your life, and go home and have the great sex with your wife you like having sex with so much.
> ...


Exactly. I like this post a lot. Thanks. I think the idea is to still prepare for divorce then separate and see how that goes. I am a woman lover and don't want to go fishing with some bearded guy though. But I like your message.


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## Phil Anders (Jun 24, 2015)

Yes, ultimatums suck. They're an attempt to control the other person through fear & aggression. Don't think of it that way. What you want is boundaries and assertiveness. Decide what life YOU want for yourself. Chart a course to get there regardless. 

Be open but emotionally neutral in discussing where you are and where you want to be, & how you plan to navigate, and let her involve herself or not as she chooses. In the end, that's all you really CAN do, since you control only yourself.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

You had one talk with her 5 months ago. So, now you just want to seethe and get your finances in order and then cut and run. That's ok because you really don't want to be married to her. Why don't you want to tell her that you'll be leaving next year? Are you afraid that you won't be able to use her for sex 'til then?

Even if you do leave her, you'll probably still be knocking on her bedroom window in the middle of the night because you'll miss the sexual chemistry. That would be a shyte move, btw.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

As I recall from your previous post, you were going to leave in October. Why the hold up? 

She's still not interested in hanging out with you. She's still not affectionate. Why keep complaining about it?

We have a saying in Al Anon: Nothing changes if nothing changes.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Boundaries are all about the person making them. They are for their own happiness.

Ultimatums are for the person who hurt you. They are controlling by nature and not about your personal happiness.


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## Duguesclin (Jan 18, 2014)

Guth, what does your wife like?


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## Guth (Oct 23, 2015)

Prodigal said:


> As I recall from your previous post, you were going to leave in October. Why the hold up?
> 
> She's still not interested in hanging out with you. She's still not affectionate. Why keep complaining about it?
> 
> We have a saying in Al Anon: Nothing changes if nothing changes.


I like that saying.

I did not say anything about October. No hold up. it's going to take a long time, as we have a lot of finances to unwind. I don't want lawyers picking apart what we have, at wholesale prices. We have three nice properties, or four depending on how you look at it. Almost no debt. From a financial sense, she's had a jackpot all along. If we split she's going to walk away with enough to live off of for years and years.

I think a separation is a necessary step. 20 years is a long time. I also said I think this overwhelming feeling I have is likely part due to Mid Life Crisis. I blame myself for this as much as anyone. I can't deny the fact that I want to ride off into the sunset without her. I'd say that since April, each day I am closer to convincing myself that it's the right thing to do.


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## Guth (Oct 23, 2015)

Duguesclin said:


> Guth, what does your wife like?


I guess she likes the thickness more than anything. On a daily basis she gets what she likes. And last night was outstanding. It's never bad. Never. God she is so freaking hot in that regard. You probably think I'm exaggerating.


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## LucasJackson (May 26, 2016)

What does she like to do? There are so many activities in this world. More than the two of you could do in your lifetimes. If you discuss it could you find some things to do together that both of you like? Surely there is something. Take a cooking class together. Learn salsa dancing. Take a pottery class. You get the idea. As far as being more physical, a lot of people don't do the touchy feely thing with their partners. Especially in public. Are you being charming to her? Are you trying different things than you have in the past?

I'm not saying that it doesn't eventually get to a point where you have to say "you need to change or I'm leaving you" but I'd hope that you would explore all possibilities before you get to that point.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Guth said:


> I guess she likes the thickness more than anything. On a daily basis she gets what she likes. And last night was outstanding. It's never bad. Never. God she is so freaking hot in that regard. You probably think I'm exaggerating.


And you are a fool for turning that loose, respectfully.:surprise:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Sometimes they are.

It depends on several factors, including the mindset of the person delivering it.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Guth said:


> I guess she likes the thickness more than anything. On a daily basis she gets what she likes. And last night was outstanding. It's never bad. Never. God she is so freaking hot in that regard. You probably think I'm exaggerating.


No. But I am thinking a number of other things.


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## Guth (Oct 23, 2015)

Evinrude58 said:


> And you are a fool for turning that loose, respectfully.:surprise:
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I haven't done it yet. The more I talk to you all, the more it helps to think things through.

I'm thinking men who choose to divorce are less than 50% of divorce cases. Let's assume 50%. Now let's assume of that 50%, about 20% are over 45 years of age and have been married 20 years. Now what small percentage of that group of men, who choose to initiate divorce to their wife of over 20 years, find that wife to be desirable in the physical attraction department AND she has a daily desire for sex. Somehow I wonder if the sex is really that great though. Sure it's plentiful but as with the rest of the relationship -- I do, and she enjoys. I'm not getting pampered but at least I get to service her, and I like to do that.

I think if this goes through, and I axe the marriage, my situation would represent about 0.5% of all divorces. But what can I say? This woman is such a homebody and I don't like stand the thought of spending another 20 years in it.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Evinrude58 said:


> And you are a fool for turning that loose, respectfully.:surprise:
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The grass is always greener.

We have a situation here where two people married for superficial reasons, he married her for her looks and apparently she married him for his d1ck. If two people can stay happy in this situation indefinitely, then that's their choice. If they want more from a relationship, then I'm not seeing how that makes them a fool.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Have you really examined why you resent your wife? You say it's because you had to do all the heavy lifting with the kids education and activities for school. Did any one hold a gun to your head? You stepped in and took over once the kids got old enough to go to school. If you didn't want to do it, you didn't have to do it. Kids can do their own homework. Kids don't need their parents at every one of their school activities. My guess is you did it because you wanted to. And, now you're whining about it. 

How about you call your kids and tell them just how much you resent all the time you helped them? You can even tell them you did it because their lazy, slob of a mother wouldn't. Of course, they're not going to think very highly of you in the now and present and all those great memories of their childhoods will be ruined. But, what the hell, right? You have buyer's remorse and have a right to whine about it.

Do your wife a favor and get that divorce. She'll probably be a lot happier when she doesn't have to live with an immature, passive-aggressive person.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

She doesn't want more
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Guth (Oct 23, 2015)

Blondilocks said:


> Have you really examined why you resent your wife? You say it's because you had to do all the heavy lifting with the kids education and activities for school. Did any one hold a gun to your head? You stepped in and took over once the kids got old enough to go to school. If you didn't want to do it, you didn't have to do it. Kids can do their own homework. Kids don't need their parents at every one of their school activities. My guess is you did it because you wanted to. And, now you're whining about it.
> 
> How about you call your kids and tell them just how much you resent all the time you helped them?


You touch on a different topic. But first I will say I had a talk with my daughter, she's in second year of college now. I said I was dad and mom and she immediately said yes I know.

We live in a competitive school district. It's just incredible what kids are doing these days. My kids excelled for sure. But you've got some kids, and I mean mostly the Asian kids, who spend every day, every night, and every weekend from morning until night, on school. They do "AP" classes and these are college courses being taught in high school. Kids study at school, go home to eat, sleep, wake up and study until 2:00 AM, sleep until 6:30 then wake up and go to school. They all join a club, like Key Club. They get involved in sports. They volunteer. All of this is to get into colleges. They get remarkable SAT scores, etc. I think a lot of them become dentists or some boring profession and it's not worth it.

So I tried to strike a middle ground here, being that I ran a successful company and my wife was absolutely NOT going to do a thing with the education. And I mean a big zip zero zilch. So yes, four nights a week I was at practice, I don't want to repeat everything I said in the other thread. In this environment my kids excelled and I don't think they would have without me. But if we were in a more rural area, with no AP courses offered, the kids could have had a less busy time and they would still end up succeeding. But there is a type of "peer pressure" among parents, anyone can tell you that, in this day and age. My two kids in college are doing extremely well though. They went to average run-of-the-mill state universities and are just breezing through. One is engineering, the other biology/medicine.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Evinrude58 said:


> She doesn't want more
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, it appears she has enough in her life, probably because she is a homebody and this is the life she was raised to expect and she's comfortable with that.

However, he appears to have expected more from life. I'm a little surprised that other men think he should be happy with only one need being filled. It amazes me that men on here will tell a man to leave a marriage where every other need is filled except for sex, but tell him to stay in a marriage where ONLY the need for sex is being filled. As long as little brain is happy, big brain should just shut the hell up?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Guth said:


> I guess she likes the thickness more than anything. On a daily basis she gets what she likes. And last night was outstanding. It's never bad. Never. God she is so freaking hot in that regard. You probably think I'm exaggerating.


Huh? Someone asks you what makes your wife happy and you respond with a sex answer? Are you really that shallow?


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

As for ultimatums, yes, they are unfair. Personally, I don't see that you have many choices here. You can't change who you married. They are also pointless, but I guess as a last ditch effort to save a marriage, people will try them.

It appears obvious that you married for sex but what you really wanted was a lifelong partner. You had a list of boxes and she ticked one. Generally, for a lifelong partner you would want them to tick most boxes and then if you choose correctly, they can learn to fill the last few boxes through personal growth.

This is who she is. Maybe for someone else she would tick every box.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

turnera said:


> Huh? Someone asks you what makes your wife happy and you respond with a sex answer? Are you really that shallow?


I think that's all he sees her as. A walking vagina.


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## Guth (Oct 23, 2015)

breeze said:


> As for ultimatums, yes, they are unfair. Personally, I don't see that you have many choices here. You can't change who you married. They are also pointless, but I guess as a last ditch effort to save a marriage, people will try them.
> 
> It appears obvious that you married for sex but what you really wanted was a lifelong partner. You had a list of boxes and she ticked one. Generally, for a lifelong partner you would want them to tick most boxes and then if you choose correctly, they can learn to fill the last few boxes through personal growth.
> 
> This is who she is. Maybe for someone else she would tick every box.


This is an epic response. So true. The thing is for 20 years I did not even realize it. Kids left home and it really hit.


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## Guth (Oct 23, 2015)

breeze said:


> I think that's all he sees her as. A walking vagina.


Sitting usually rather than walking.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Guth said:


> This is an epic response. So true. The thing is for 20 years I did not even realize it. Kids left home and it really hit.


I once talked to a guy who hated the LTR he was in. They fought, they were generally never happy together, shared nothing in common, however, he lived his life through a haze of marijuana, so apparently it never occurred to him that he wanted more and could have more. I asked him WTF was he afraid of, single life was freaking awesome?! It was for me at the time anyway. Last I heard he left that relationship, travelled and found someone he adores.

The point is, I think you've lived life in a haze of sexual gratification like he was living his life in a haze of smoke.


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## Guth (Oct 23, 2015)

breeze said:


> I once talked to a guy who hated the LTR he was in. They fought, they were generally never happy together, shared nothing in common, however, he lived his life through a haze of marijuana, so apparently it never occurred to him that he wanted more and could have more. I asked him WTF was he afraid of, single life was freaking awesome?! It was for me at the time anyway. Last I heard he left that relationship, travelled and found someone he adores.
> 
> The point is, I think you've lived life in a haze of sexual gratification like he was living his life in a haze of smoke.


Yes a really fine looking A$S. I'll never regret that part. And I am totally honest when I say, I can be my own worst enemy. I can imagine divorcing her then going right back into a deal with some hot Filipina half her age and starting up another family. Argh. Is that what awaits? My current wife would never take me back after that.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Guth said:


> Yes a really fine looking A$S. I'll never regret that part. And I am totally honest when I say, I can be my own worst enemy. I can imagine divorcing her then going right back into a deal with some hot Filipina half her age and starting up another family. Argh. Is that what awaits? My current wife would never take me back after that.


If that's what happens, then maybe this is more about you accepting that this is who you are. Maybe you like the idea of having what you were told you would have when you were growing up; the image of two people walking together along the beach holding hands, the image of two people in love long after a sex life is just a distant memory, but that's not what you really care about, only what you think you should care about.

If what you want is what is considered superficial by many, then that doesn't make it wrong for you.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

breeze said:


> I think that's all he sees her as. A walking vagina.


Not quite. 

A _beautiful _walking vagina. A teenage boy's wet dream.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Guth said:


> Yes a really fine looking A$S. I'll never regret that part. And I am totally honest when I say, I can be my own worst enemy. I can imagine divorcing her then going right back into a deal with some hot Filipina half her age and starting up another family. Argh. Is that what awaits? My current wife would never take me back after that.


:surprise:

You want my advice? Divorce her and move to Thailand with all the rest of the ugly Americans who just want hot young tail. Unfortunately, that's all those girls are raised to expect.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

You can't get blood out of the stone. She's too practical for romantic moves.

Like yours, my wife is quite attractive (Asian genes  ). But sex isn't in her mind very much. Romance as well. She pretty much does not see the value added. What do you get by walking together, holding hands, flowers, etc? It's all TV romantic comedy stuff in her mind.

You can't change it, not now. Should you get divorced and look for a new one? I would say the pickings are a lot slimmer than you think esp if you want a lot of qualities, after all the good ones are married 

Ultimatums are meaningless to such people. They can't understand the value of romance, therefore they can't do the cost benefit analysis.


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## Guth (Oct 23, 2015)

john117 said:


> You can't change it, not now. Should you get divorced and look for a new one? I would say the pickings are a lot slimmer than you think esp if you want a lot of qualities, after all the good ones are married


Hi, thanks for your input. I'm pretty determined to set the ball in motion toward a separation, and that will come early next year. At which point I will shake up my entire life and that means selling the home, and taking off on a long journey of at least one full year on my own. Only after that will I decide to terminate the relationship legally, or return to her. 

I plan to travel overseas (UK first) where I want to pursue a partnership to co-pack a product I pioneered, that is presently manufactured here in US and will find a market if I can get it made in Europe. That will take a good few months, I believe. And I love Scotland.

I've been ridden pretty hard on the financial front here, with expensive home, expensive area, expensive health insurance, expensive college tuition, yearly trips taking the kids overseas, etc. I need to pare all that down, along with my responsibilities, and go vagabond. I can easily live inexpensively outside of this country, as I've done before. This is for my own health, and I'll likely be dating all over. There are a lot of women around here, from what I see, and overseas you get such an exquisite range as a foreigner. 

My wife may be practical like you said but the practical thing for her, frankly, is to wonder how she's lived a gilded existence for 20 years and the kids turned out the way they did -- now hold my dang hand when we go out and treat me like a someone special. She's going to get a year-long dose of practicality in a nice 1200 square foot home 700 miles from this expensive city, in a college town where our son lives. Take it or leave it, I'm setting up shop over there where she can raise our younger son.

I am just curious about you though, the question is why are you here? I ask that in a nice way, I mean have you been divorced before and offer advice? Are you a counsellor of some sort? Do you consider divorce? You come across as someone resigned to accept your wife but this is a divorce forum so I thought I'd ask.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Ah, a newcomer to my grotto . I'm European married to a woman from the Central Asia Republic of Frigidistan . We're both 56, hold PhD degrees in our fields, and both have solid industry jobs. Two daughters in college, 30 years married, 34 overall. Exit planned for May 2017. First 25 years were good, and the last 9... Not quite. 

I thought of divorcing when the fireworks started maybe 2007-2008 but with kids headed to pricy private colleges finances were important. Custody as well. Anyhow, I offer my advise from the standpoint of someone who has lots of Asian women friends and let's just say regardless of country of origin, that generation was not as much into romance as we would like. By virtue of my education and experience I understand the human thinking process fairly well. In May 2017 my younger finishes pre-med and it seems like a good breaking point. 

I came here thinking I could "fix" my marriage. Boy was I wrong... In the process I realized that by the time you reach our age, available and desirable women aren't quite easy to find. Not if you have high standards lolz. Like you, I could go back to Europe and hook up there, but it's a crap shoot as much as Craigslist. 

To make things a bit more entertaining, she suffers from diagnosed and untreated BPD, and her Family Of Origin is, politely said, totally fvcked up. 

I'm not a counselor, these were the people in the nicer part of the psych building (behavioral / clinical). We were in the "I can't believe them clowns do THAT for college credit" part of the psych building (cognitive & experimental) .

I will tell you that what you think is the issue may not be the issue. Maybe you have concerns that lack of romance now could be no compassion later. I've thought of all that, and let's just say I don't like what I'm seeing.


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## Guth (Oct 23, 2015)

Thanks for your nice response. You may be right that I'll never find a woman that likes to go for a walk, enjoys a sunset, holds hands, these things. But I've been observing for a long time, and I see couples walking together, talking, and enjoying a sunset, more often than not. Maybe all those women are taken as you said. Who knows. 

I'll be patient. Then we'll see. If my wife doesn't change, which she won't, and I don't find a passionate lady who enjoys time outdoors and is together with me, then I'd rather spend the next 20 years then with a lady just like my wife only 25 years younger. If all I get is a great piece of A$S out of this life, fine. I think I'll find someone who I really connect with on a different level though. And the same for you, best wishes.

By the way I traveled to Mongolia two summers ago, it was warm when I was there but WOW that's one cold country. And at the same time, the features of the women (great legs, beautiful faces, and the elusive large chest Asian) led me to believe they are possibly the most beautiful in the world. Super friendly too.


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## Síocháin (Mar 11, 2016)

I don't mean this ugly or disrespectful but you remind me of my STBXH. Have you actually sat down & had a conversation with her in a meaningful way. Was it all directed towards what SHE needs to change. Have you asked her what SHE wants from you now. All people change, but in order to grow together it has to be both ways.

My STBXH told me things he wanted from me, so I would try to do it. You know what he did in return, NOTHING. He would ask me what I needed from him and I told him. He still did NOTHING. So, unless you are working with her instead of waiting for her to do everything YOU want, just go ahead and let her go. My STBXH did, and it was the best thing that's happened to me in 12 years.

ETA: I just saw your post stating you want someone 25 years younger & a great piece of A$$. I can see why she doesn't want to spend time with you. PLEASE divorce her now so she can find someone who will appreciate her. AYFKM?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Alas, we're talking about a place that serves fermented mare's milk as a drink. Not for me, but I'm sure my kids will find some reason to study abroad there... I'll stick to Courvoisier or real Kentucky Bourbon 

Do a simple test. Assume you had a love potion you could spike someone's drink with. Out of your extended social circle, how many women would you use it on? Married, committed, or not. I know lots of women yet could only think of one to use it on. Meaning, I'm way selective.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Guth said:


> She thinks we are going live together forever.


Why the hell SHOULDN'T she think that? Was that not the *plan* when you got married or did your license have an expiration date on it like a dog license? 



> Everyone says "get counseling". I feel a counselor would not help because basically it would be like telling her to reformat her personality. She doesn't like to go outside much. If we are at a beautiful park on a summer evening at sunset, she wouldn't want to sit down together hold hands and take it in. At the end of the day she doesn't come sit next to me to talk, put her hand on my leg, make me feel like a good man and her companion. She is just a stump, I guess you could say. We could go to the most romantic mountain village and all she'd do is meander behind me as we walk, and think about getting back to the hotel where she'd hole herself up with the curtains closed.


And she was an extrovert and sex kitten while you were dating, so she pulled the old switcheroo on you once she reeled you in? Or did you know this going in BEFORE you married her? I'm thinking it's the latter.



> One thing for sure-- she's a beautiful woman and her genetics are to thank for our kids who are very good looking. Daughter could be a movie star; stunning, like her mother but even more so. So I guess it was her good looks and strong sex drive that kept me thinking I was a lucky guy all along.


Ahhh, so *now* I get it. You were willing to overlook these things because she was beautiful. Got it.



> I could setup a meeting with her again and tell her that I can't stand the thought of spending the rest of my life with someone who wants to stay indoors, doesn't naturally walk by my side, has zero romantic inclination, doesn't like nature, etc etc etc. Not to mention the fact that I'm bitter at her for 20 years of me having to mind the kids' homework, sports, etc.


Yeah, I guess there comes a time when beauty doesn't trump substance. Too bad you let your little head do all your thinking for you 20 years ago.



> The best thing would be an ultimatum, but how could that work? It's like telling a dog not to bark. I'm thinking to get our finances really clean and then do a quick break, mid next year.


I agree. That should give you enough time to do the same stupid thing all over - go find a 'hottie' that you'll want to dump 10 or 20 years from now when the risk is no longer worth the reward.



> By the way I traveled to Mongolia two summers ago, it was warm when I was there but WOW that's one cold country. And at the same time, the features of the women (great legs, beautiful faces, and the elusive large chest Asian) led me to believe they are possibly the most beautiful in the world. Super friendly too.


I'm clearly getting the impression women in your own country aren't interested in you at all, so you've had to 'expand' your borders internationally. I'm also assuming you're extremely short and/or you look like a bridge troll. Most (not all) but most guys that have to go overseas to do their 'mate shopping' usually do look like that. :laugh:



> ...then I'd rather spend the next 20 years then with a lady just like my wife only 25 years younger.


LOL. Yup, bridge trolls can find themselves young wives internationally - all you have to do is flash a little cash and she's all *yours*. Very easy to do - nothing to brag about there. Now, getting a beautiful young lady in your OWN country, well, *that* would be a feat - and an impossibility. LOL.

Do your wife a favor and divorce her.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I was going to give you a little insight into hot Filipinas. But, naw, you deserve what you get.


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## Guth (Oct 23, 2015)

It's a common sexist response that any man who marries an overseas woman is a sad sack loser who can't find a girl in his home country; whereas a woman who marries a foreign man doesn't get any such criticism.

I'm 20 years along into the current deal and learned to completely ignore the judgements people place on who I married. The fact is I spent years of my life overseas anyway, and met my current wife in her country after a year of intensive language study.

Having said that, at present I would rather find someone closer to my personality. As others have correctly deduced from my posts, I was on autopilot for 20 years with my current wife and the thing we have in common is sex -- that's it. I did a great job juggling everything on my plate too. Why would I now keep going with her if the relationship has only that one satisfying component? If that's the only component to share, I might as well get a younger one and carry on for the rest of my life doing what I've been doing with someone new. It's a last resort but certainly an option. I'm well-traveled and have the resources.

John117 I think you are too cynical on the availability of potential partners. I can't speak from experience but dating has moved online and there are just hundreds of potential mates all around you with profiles to share. ******* and Tinder are two that offer proximity searches, many more websites exist, then there are ways to get involved with new social clubs, etc. In this day and age you can meet so many here, not just abroad.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

john117 said:


> Should you get divorced and look for a new one? I would say the pickings are a lot slimmer than you think esp if you want a lot of qualities, after all the good ones are married


I disagree, John. And a lot of the bad ones are married, too - after all, you're still married to your wife, right?

There are always women available. Yes, most of the good ones (and bad ones) are taken, but some are not, and there are always more coming on the market. Why? Because some of the good ones are married to awful men, and so they divorce them and become available. They're looking for someone better than their ex, as you would be looking for someone better than your ex!

At that point, it becomes a search and a numbers game. The more you meet, and the better you are at quickly evaluating someone's compatibility, the more likely it is that you'll find a good match. If _you_ aren't a good match, though, you may not find anyone better overall, but perhaps you'll still find someone better in one or two ways that matter the most to you.


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## Yosemite (Aug 23, 2016)

Phil Anders said:


> Yes, ultimatums suck. They're an attempt to control the other person through fear & aggression.


I don't agree with this at all.

Take the example of a wife who finds out that her husband has started smoking. They've discussed it in the past, before they even got married, and it was a deal breaker.

So she tells him "quit smoking or I'm divorcing you!".

That's sucky?

I could see how it's an attenpt at control through fear and aggression but so what? It's for a good cause and it's not like she's doing it to BE controlling it's because he broke their previously established rules.

You could do the same for a cheater (one more time and I'm gone!) or drug abuse or a gambling habit or whatever. 

Ultimatums have their place as a final resort but as others have stated they probably are about as effective as trying to drive a nail with a sponge.

But what else can you do?

Suck it up and allow the bad behavior to continue, or leave the person with no intention of coming back although there's always the possibility that when faced with the reality of the end of the relationship the person will stop the bad behavior.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Let's just say I have faith in Melani Robinson and her "one year of online dating at age 50" website. I've already been burned by imports , so my cynicism is rather well founded. 

Now, if you live in some parts of the country, maybe it'll work out better. Here in the bourbon belt, not so much. Maybe I should look into the farmers only site?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Why the hell SHOULDN'T she think that? Was that not the *plan* when you got married or did your license have an expiration date on it like a dog license?
> 
> And she was an extrovert and sex kitten while you were dating, so she pulled the old switcheroo on you once she reeled you in? Or did you know this going in BEFORE you married her? I'm thinking it's the latter.
> 
> ...


Pretty uncalled for. You are angry he likes young, beautiful women? All men do. You act like he's only after beauty. He's made it plain and clear he wants more than that. He's more than satisfied with his wife's beauty. He wants someone to talk to and hold hands with and give him affection Unassociated with sex.
And if he fails to find that is some amount of time, he feels he can find beauty anywhere, and younger. Guess what, he's right. But he wants affection and a companion, not just sex, and surely you can respect that???

You're twisting thus Guy's words all up to make it sound like he's shallow. To me, he appreciates his wife's beauty--- he just wants her to want to share the rest of his life with him other than just the bedroom. Don't most women want this as well?
I don't understand all the vitriol. But I do think he's not doing the right or smart thing. He married her for what she is--- she's clearly not changed. Honor your wife and get your head out of the foolishness. You can't have perfection. It's not out there. Make what you do have BETTER. You don't have to make her change for that to happen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

To have a successful romance and emotional relationship, one needs someone near their own environment and not someone from a faraway land. IMHO at least, it's easy to spend time together casually if you have common interests and a common frame of reference. 

So, unless I can discover a cute Filipina in her 40's with a PhD in some interesting area, a passion for art, and interested in travel, my statement about number of potential partners stands.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

john117 said:


> To have a successful romance and emotional relationship, one needs someone near their own environment and not someone from a faraway land. IMHO at least, it's easy to spend time together casually if you have common interests and a common frame of reference.
> 
> So, unless I can discover a cute Filipina in her 40's with a PhD in some interesting area, a passion for art, and interested in travel, my statement about number of potential partners stands.


So now you, too, John, need someone at least 10 years younger than you?


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Guth, I apologize for saying I thought you were leaving in October. I got you mixed up with another post. However, it's rather strange (to me at least) as to what you need/want in a relationship. I understand you want a partner who will share your love of the outdoors and need for affection. But it sounds like you also really enjoy an active sex life. Granted, your wife sounds a bit extreme when it comes to being detached, but I wonder if the combination you seek is unrealistic. 

JMO, but it sounds like you are seeking the total package: Hot bod, loves lots of sex, wants to be outdoors, enjoys your common interests, keeps a fairly clean house. I'm not saying finding the right combination is impossible, but it strikes me that you may be looking for your idea of perfection.

I dunno .... sounds a bit unrealistic to me. Not impossible,, but unrealistic.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Livvie said:


> So now you, too, John, need someone at least 10 years younger than you?


No, just a number. I prefer women in their 50's actually, like me. No kids around - I've played parent long enough - and no career aspirations other than staying employed. Less likelihood of elder parents or related obligations.

Asians a definitive plus as they seem to age slower . 

Any takers?


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## Guth (Oct 23, 2015)

Prodigal said:


> I understand you want a partner who will share your love of the outdoors and need for affection. But it sounds like you also really enjoy an active sex life... I wonder if the combination you seek is unrealistic.
> 
> JMO, but it sounds like you are seeking the total package: Hot bod, loves lots of sex, wants to be outdoors, enjoys your common interests, keeps a fairly clean house. I'm not saying finding the right combination is impossible, but it strikes me that you may be looking for your idea of perfection.
> 
> I dunno .... sounds a bit unrealistic to me. Not impossible,, but unrealistic.


Could be unrealistic. Yesterday was a perfect summer day sunny and 72F, the evening was just spectacular and I was out playing with my son and the dog. My wife? She spent about 4 hours at the Dollar Store and the local Asian supermarket with her mom. She spent maybe 60 seconds outside, walking from house to car, car to Dollar Store. 

For 20 years we had infants, toddlers, then teens, schooling, etc. I organized everything because she was indoors unless I said we are all going on a hike, walk, road trip. I could have / should have done something then but I was focused on the kids.

Now I am no longer going to organize everything. I am DONE doing that. At the same time, I go out and see all kinds of couples walking outdoors, hiking, etc, and many of them even have jobs and an income. Wow. What a welcome change. Are they all taken? I doubt it.

As for the sex I am asking here also, how common is it for a woman to enjoy sex every single day for 20 years? I don't think it's THAT unusual, but is it? Maybe I shouldn't ask that question in a divorce forum.

So far the only person in my family who I've spoken to about this is my step sister, who I love so much and have become close to over the years. She just got a shock from her husband, that he is divorcing her. So I took her to dinner and told her about my deal. When I told her about the daily sex she responded immediately that I will give that portion up if I find a new woman (ha ha). She said her hormones, blah blah blah. She basically told me that she doesn't ever have sex. Dang.

Yes the fact is if I leave, I would be walking away from the most beautiful woman I've ever known. Even today if she walks down the hall into the dining room her beauty strikes me, and when we make love I stare into her perfect eyes, face, and the satisfaction is beyond what I would ever really want. In that department she is the ULTIMATE wife.


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

This whole thread sounds like some kind of weird pulp romance novel........Just a weird vibe here........


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Guth said:


> At the same time, I go out and see all kinds of couples walking outdoors, hiking, etc, and many of them even have jobs and an income. Wow. What a welcome change. Are they all taken? I doubt it.
> 
> As for the sex I am asking here also, how common is it for a woman to enjoy sex every single day for 20 years? I don't think it's THAT unusual, but is it? Maybe I shouldn't ask that question in a divorce forum.


They're not all taken, the ones you see are. But this is purely based on visual inspection, without compatibility testing.

As for sex every day for two decades, allow me to have very serious doubts that this would be typical. Every piece of peer reviewed literature I've seen says it's single digit percentage likely given the age bracket and duration of relationship.

There's lots of good literature out there, check it out.


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## Guth (Oct 23, 2015)

john117 said:


> They're not all taken, the ones you see are. But this is purely based on visual inspection, without compatibility testing.
> 
> As for sex every day for two decades, allow me to have very serious doubts that this would be typical. Every piece of peer reviewed literature I've seen says it's single digit percentage likely given the age bracket and duration of relationship.
> 
> There's lots of good literature out there, check it out.


I should do what her father did and have a second wife, only that wife is for companionship and my first wife for the gratification. 

When we had toddlers I participated in parenting forums to get advice, and I noted how many women commented about the infrequency of sex. I suppose at my age I'll likely find someone who appreciates being outdoors and is the whole package except for sex. Never know.

I probably owe my nice complexion and overall decent health to her, as I think a good deep sleep is naturally the best way to look and feel good. She actually came and sat down next to me a few nights ago and we talked about our son. That was a first. Maybe she's coming around but I doubt it.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

john117 said:


> Livvie said:
> 
> 
> > So now you, too, John, need someone at least 10 years younger than you?
> ...


Nope, not here, not Asain!!


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I got into two relationships with Far East Asians before my current Central Asian... One never married and wouldn't know a date if you showed her the calendar. Looks like a teenager at 54. The other has had more cosmetic surgery than Michael Jackson and looks amazing at 62. She married and we get together for dinner other once in a while... We live close. Sex wise she looks not too LD , her husband looks happy at least. 

Interesting people.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

My wife's grandfather had two wives, legally... Different cities. Worked well


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