# Humility in marriage



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Are you humble with your spouse? How so?

Is your spouse humble with you? How so?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Simple question , isn't it... and here.. no replies in 2 weeks... Ok.. I'll bite... My husband is more humble over ME....always a self awareness to not boast before others...I know when he meets others like this.. he generally thinks they are a D*** (just saying) so he doesn't like to be this way himself....he's always been careful to not trample another's feelings unnecessarily... 

He is very EASY to live with.. I've rarely been met with defensiveness on his end...if my husband gets MAD.. I better be paying attention...as he has reason to be... He's always been a careful listener.. I've always felt heard, which means so much to us women.. 

2 of our kids were in the room earlier...and I asked them...who is more Humble.. me or Dad?? .. daughter said DAD 1st....but she also added that I am too, saying it was hard to say.... I then asked who is more Prideful / thinks they know everything.. ..daughter said ME...with a grin on her face.. like isn't that obvious !... ha ha.. 

4th son probably likes me even less, he enjoys making fun of me.. even he agreed I am good to apologize when I screw up... Husband will say.. I am very thorough in "making amends".. 

What I am trying to get at is.... I get angrier easier.. I can be more haughty, temperamental in a moment







.... BUT I am quick to realize I am being a ____ and need to go & humble myself... so this helps. I've posted this a # of times here.. would like to get some of these balloons...










In our early years.. I had some anger issues.. not towards HIM (never him!).... but towards life, my family (step Mom).. things like this.... through HIS example, his understanding, his patience with me, his ability to take my bad moments & get me to laugh at myself even... he helped me believe in myself, he always saw THE GOOD .... 

...Humility is surely a part of this... here I was supposed to be Christian between the 2 of us.. but he clearly had more "Fruits" >> 








...

He got me good one day.. I was b****ing about something (probably angry when we couldn't conceive..I was just NOT a happy camper back then)...he jumps out & takes a picture of me -so I could see what I looked like.. I deserved that! 

I did buy a book on "*Humility*" back in those early yrs.. thinking I need a little more of that!







... I mention this as to say....I have certainly grown in this ...

I asked my husband once what HE feels is the biggest hindrance in Marriages today... he paused for a moment.. then said *Stubbornness* ... especially in communication.. he says everyone wants to be "right" and they put this ABOVE each other.. each wants the other to "cave" first.. (basically no humility).... this is one area we haven't struggled with in our marriage.. 

We are both downright MISERABLE when we're at odds.. both quick to come back together..hearing each other out.....we lean to the vulnerable.. we trust we want back in each others arms....with this always comes admitting where we missed it... with words, attitudes, where we could have done better...

And we'll miss it again.. but somehow it doesn't seem to matter... in our imperfections.. there is still so much to be thankful for...


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)




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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

SA one thing about you and your H is that you two work at your relationship to enhance it. It takes a great deal of humility for a couple to do that. 

I find it fascinating that you are the only one that responded to this question but not at all surprised. Humility is something that is not truly valued or understood these days. It's shameful.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

I was kinda hoping this thread would go somewhere. I was interested in seeing other responses. I think both my W and I are pretty humble, we both think of how any decision we may make would impact the other (and the kids, for that matter). SA, as usual, provides a ton of insight. I agree with @RClawson, humility is not understood or valued enough today. I think it is critical in a marriage....


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*I have always been humble by nature, except when I see someone either being physically or emotionally abused, or just someone trying to bully their way around with no sound reasoning for it!

And for what it's worth neither my first W or my RSXW was anything but humble!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

From my recent reading of his needs, her needs. Admitting your faults and mistakes to your Spouse is the way I do this. This is something I have always been able to do with her and very few other people.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Not humble at all. In fact probably the opposite. In real life anyway. But when my wife is on the phone I treat her with kid gloves. I don't think that's humble but it is considerate.

She is very considerate - probably to a fault.

Hmmmm I guess humble isn't a concept I actually understand.

I do take care of my wife's feelings though and vise versa.

Very confusing to me.

Can you explain a situation that calls for a humble response and what that would be? Maybe it's semantics.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Mobile app didn't show the images at first. Maybe the examples are there?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

_"Humility is nothing but truth, and pride is nothing but lying."_

— Vincent de Paul


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

RClawson said:


> SA one thing about you and your H is that you two work at your relationship to enhance it. It takes a great deal of humility for a couple to do that.
> 
> I find it fascinating that you are the only one that responded to this question but not at all surprised. Humility is something that is not truly valued or understood these days. It's shameful.


I try to give my 2 cents on all of JLD's threads .. but yeah.. seriously.. humility is far too often seen as "too nice guy"... weakness"... whatever... I guess it all depends on why someone is being humble.. is it out of fear, a cowering , is it even HONEST... or is it motivated to "*built a bridge*"...because you DO care about this person before you..you want to make sure your hand didn't cause THEM to stumble.. 

I am a decent example of how even a *hot head* can learn some humility...(yeah that cute little red guy here - that's me!)... Our family went to see "Inside out" ...I REALLY enjoyed this movie...it showed the roles of our emotions.. they all have a place....even sadness... but anger too!...there is a purpose for them all.. they work together.... 

One thing that has always bothered me.. is when someone opens up, shares about themselves, *something vulnerable* where it wasn't so easy to do... then someone comes along & rubs their face in it, makes fun of them, uses it against them... that's a dagger right there...

Unfortunately those we love the most has DONE JUST THIS to many of us... this is cruelty.... there is a time & a place for correcting.... but also for listening, hearing each other...and acknowledging the TRUST another has put in us.. Let's not trample it.. it's in these moments... we grow together.. 

I really LOVE communicating... I know when people aren't humble but come off haughty, very Proud... when it's always someone else's fault... oh never them!.. they have it all together.. if one can't admit a little DIRT on themselves, I can't see them as one who understands or appreciates what true humility is about....

I would not trust them with the delicate things , the vulnerable things.. I see them as less empathetic right off the bat....or only to their own cause, mission... They may have other fine traits and even be great FUN, the life of the party....I may even find them interesting.. but living with them...it wouldn't be so joyful... it's not good for marriages.. 



> *The quality virtue of humility is a necessary attribute to have in and for healthy marriage relationships*.
> 
> * Humility is a yielding door to understanding, insights, and wisdom.
> 
> ...


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Out in the world maybe I lack humility 

But at home I am most definitely humbled by my sweet wife and four children

55


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

If you exclude my wife and kids I ace the true humility column


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## Duguesclin (Jan 18, 2014)

john117 said:


> If you exclude my wife and kids I ace the true humility column


So when you include your wife and kids, in which column are you?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Approximately 75 cm to the right past pride


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

My own journey, which in part led me to this site, has helped me understand humility in a greater way than I ever understood. The process that led me to this realization was very painful at times. I would say its pinnacle came about nine months ago when I was taking inventory of my life and who I was. 

As my own movie played back in my mind I was ashamed at myself during certain periods of my life. There were times I thought I "was all that" but I was truly an eh hole. In a couple of cases I reached out to people I believed I had offended and apologized. Talk about a purifying experience. This also led me to understand mistakes I had made in my marriage that I needed to atone for. There is no doubt it was a turning point which has allowed us to stay under the same roof happily.

Now with that being said I do hope my W takes a similar inventory one day. I believe that day will eventually happen but it will take time no doubt and she has to come to that place on her own.


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## knightRider (Dec 31, 2014)

jld said:


> Are you humble with your spouse? How so?
> 
> Is your spouse humble with you? How so?


Think that depends on the how we are as a couple at that moment. If we're getting along then humility can flow and we can open up to each other, admit our faults and try to make a plan to improve.

If on the other hand we have a discussion and one of us triggers, than all humility get thrown out of the window and our relationship has a set back.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

I a m not sure of this is humility. But one very important thing is to ACCEPT DS's feelings, opinions and not fight to be RIGHT.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

The assumption here may be that humility or arrogance are constant behaviors. They need not be. I defer to other people in many aspects, family members included. Yet I doubt this flexibility earns any bonus points.

Always humble or always arrogant is a recipe for disaster... My older girl felt humbled in her new school which is far more technical than conceptual design wise. She kept complaining that she's not as good as the other students, blah blah. She ended up with a high A and glowing final review. Does she use it to build up her ego or does she stow it? A bit of both.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

RClawson said:


> My own journey, which in part led me to this site, has helped me understand humility in a greater way than I ever understood. *The process that led me to this realization was very painful at times. *I would say its pinnacle came about nine months ago when I was taking inventory of my life and who I was.
> 
> *As my own movie played back in my mind I was ashamed at myself during certain periods of my life. There were times I thought I "was all that" but I was truly an eh hole.*
> 
> *In a couple of cases I reached out to people I believed I had offended and apologized.** Talk about a purifying experience. *This also led me to understand mistakes I had made in my marriage that I needed to atone for. There is no doubt it was a turning point which has allowed us to stay under the same roof happily.


 Beautiful post... example of what Humility is all about.. it is painful.. if you've ever heard of Jung's Shadow (below).. it's about peering into our soul... the *dark* *places*.. where we are capable of some really UGLY things...yet it's "healthy" to be in touch with this..







...










I have a story where I ran my big mouth about someone (not husband, not kids)....and well.. I just shouldn't have done it.. one of those hot head moments... I heard something said (wasn't even about me).. I OVER reacted.. this person told that person .... I was feeling VERY ASHAMED of my sorry behavior....

One isn't supposed to STAY in shame... shame says "*I AM BAD*"... I knew I wasn't a bad person.. but I did an asinine thing - which is "Guilt" (Guilt says *"I did something Bad"*)... when I feel guilty about something, my conscience is unsettled.. I have to wash myself of these things...

So I wrote this 2 page letter, bearing my soul, telling this person I am ashamed of myself, I should have known better... Lord.. very [email protected]# .. I laid it all out there alright... why I said what I said.. what was behind it .... it was HUMBLING ... I just figured.. "If they think I am a total screw up...oh well.. I did what I could"...but it gave ME *peace*...and I better have learned from it too!.... It was "releasing" to me... yet scary to drop that in the mailbox !

I got a response from this person & another family member..I actually addressed it to the family ...this was a family from our church....they reached back out to me... to the point of saying I was a wonderful example of how more people should be.. 

I surely wasn't expecting that [email protected]#

Did I need that sorry experience.. NO!! I guess it's a good example of 'going the extra mile" when we F**k up...even to those outside our circle.. how many of us appreciate it when someone who has hurt us, slightest us, betrayed us.... comes around & speaks their remorse?? Let's face it.. most do NOT do this.. they just allow the other person to "EAT IT"... I know I have always always always been moved by those who show this sort of character.. 

When we do Blow off those we have hurt, especially those close to us...it creates so much negative energy, and really.. dysfunction, it's why people have a very difficult time trusting..or believing the best in others... 

It seems many posters here are ONLY humble with those in their family.. not friends ?? This person I humbled myself to, was not a friend in my circles.. but someone who has been to our house.. someone that has been in circles that we have been in circles with ... . 

What did I learn from that.. better to not run my big mouth in a moment of weakness & anger.. ..but hey.. we've all been there.. right [email protected]#


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

* 6 Qualities Of Healthy Humility  *

We live in a culture that favors the strong. In that context “meekness” is often confused with “weakness.” Yet nothing could be further from the truth. Meekness is a power word. In the ancient world it was often used to describe the winning horse in a race. They were called “meek”, which meant “strength under control.” The horse was tamed, but not timid.

This is also true for our perception of humility. To make the distinction let’s call it healthy humility. Contrary to popular belief, humility is not “thinking less of yourself.” It’s “thinking of yourself less.” 

Humility — when healthy — makes you a more powerful person. So what does that look like?

*Here are 6 attributes of an individual with a healthy humility.*



> *1.* *They acknowledge they don’t have it altogether.* An accurate self-assessment makes this obvious. But here’s the challenge. Most people value honest humility. Yet the challenge is accepting the events that contribute to personal humility. It often includes some bumps and bruises — or perhaps a near fatal wreck — to come to a place of humility.
> 
> A humble person sees the power in not faking it. And people are drawn to your vulnerability. It includes embracing our successes and failures.
> 
> ...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

John,

That ability your daughter has to look around and acknowledge superior talent and then work hard to match or exceed it - priceless. 

During the course of my career I worked with 4 different people who each excelled in an area: software development, consulting, management and sales. 

At point of contact each of them was far far superior in their specialty. And I worked like a dog to learn from them. 






john117 said:


> The assumption here may be that humility or arrogance are constant behaviors. They need not be. I defer to other people in many aspects, family members included. Yet I doubt this flexibility earns any bonus points.
> 
> Always humble or always arrogant is a recipe for disaster... My older girl felt humbled in her new school which is far more technical than conceptual design wise. She kept complaining that she's not as good as the other students, blah blah. She ended up with a high A and glowing final review. Does she use it to build up her ego or does she stow it? A bit of both.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

SA,

This is an excellent list. 




SimplyAmorous said:


> * 6 Qualities Of Healthy Humility  *
> 
> We live in a culture that favors the strong. In that context “meekness” is often confused with “weakness.” Yet nothing could be further from the truth. Meekness is a power word. In the ancient world it was often used to describe the winning horse in a race. They were called “meek”, which meant “strength under control.” The horse was tamed, but not timid.
> 
> ...


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> John,
> 
> That ability your daughter has to look around and acknowledge superior talent and then work hard to match or exceed it - priceless.
> 
> ...


Very smart, MEM.

I can't help but respect people who know what they're doing. Even if I don't necessarily like them, I respect them.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

To take that further, I think it is natural to be humble with people we respect. I don't have any pride with my husband. I can't. I think he is much smarter and more virtuous than I am. 

Why would I not completely humble myself before a man like that? It is safe to do so. It is _to my benefit_ to do so.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

knightRider said:


> *Think that depends on the how we are as a couple at that moment. If we're getting along then humility can flow and we can open up to each other, admit our faults and try to make a plan to improve.
> 
> If on the other hand we have a discussion and one of us triggers, than all humility get thrown out of the window and our relationship has a set back.*


Pretty typical...sometimes we just need an olive branch.. ya know...

I must praise my husband on this .. he goes above the bar.. even if we are fighting.. he will still look for me to kiss before work.. (this is rare - as our spats only last a couple hrs generally but there has been a few times they lasted over night)... 

He has this sort of attitude.. (always)...







and really.. what a *B* I would BE to not warm up to that..


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Pretty typical...sometimes we just need an olive branch.. ya know...
> 
> I must praise my husband on this .. he goes above the bar.. even if we are fighting.. he will still look for me to kiss before work.. (this is rare - as our spats only last a couple hrs generally but there has been a few times they lasted over night)...
> 
> ...


This is how I feel with Dug, SA. 

You and I were both pretty lucky to marry the guys we did. 

I remember once, getting mad at him and saying, "If we ever get divorced, I get half of everything!"

He responded, "You deserve all of it."

I felt so bad. Nothing to do then but go to him, put my arms around him, and tell him how sorry I was.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

With each of these four folks I used the same strategy. 

Find a way to be useful to them. And then make some sort of comment about it being obvious they knew - the topic in question - far better than I did. After that they were all very helpful in teaching me stuff. 

And at completion of a task or project I never asked: If my work was 'good'. Instead I asked: If I could do this task over again from scratch, what should I have done differently? 





jld said:


> To take that further, I think it is natural to be humble with people we respect. I don't have any pride with my husband. I can't. I think he is much smarter and more virtuous than I am.
> 
> Why would I not completely humble myself before a man like that? It is safe to do so. It is _to my benefit_ to do so.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> With each of these four folks I used the same strategy.
> 
> Find a way to be useful to them. And then make some sort of comment about it being obvious they knew - the topic in question - far better than I did. After that they were all very helpful in teaching me stuff.
> 
> And at completion of a task or project I never asked: If my work was 'good'. Instead I asked: If I could do this task over again from scratch, what should I have done differently?


Perfect, MEM.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

My father taught me all this stuff. 




jld said:


> Perfect, MEM.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> My father taught me all this stuff.


You had a great dad.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

The creative professions require a lot of pride to build up ones own conviction about their self worth - then be humble enough to accept criticism.

Those of you not in the creative professions truly don't understand how artists, architects, or industrial designers are educated or how they work. You need to "fake it till you make it" and play humble mouse at the same time. Fun


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

jld said:


> This is how I feel with Dug, SA.
> 
> You and I were both pretty lucky to marry the guys we did.
> 
> ...


Who does [email protected]# ...gotta Love it...some moments just "open the heavens wide" so we can see what's in front of us...

I could share a similar incidence... I was going on about the things I wanted more out of him (can we finally throw me down on the bed hubby, ravage me, TAKE ME! -our fights are so ridiculous!).. like I wanted to "change him"...just in a couple areas - and keep the rest.. ya know.. a tremendous amount to love there !...

Then I shut up.... though I'd interject some humility.. it was HIS TURN NOW, he gets the floor - I asked him to tell me what he'd change about me....

He pauses, looks me in the eyes...and says ...."I wouldn't change anything about you... because then it wouldn't be YOU".... this warmness washes over me, I felt so loved in that moment.. I started to cry....fell in his arms & said "How can you say that!?... You are too good to me"... he says "Because I love you"... arguing over.....Make up sex time!


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Who does [email protected]# ...gotta Love it...some moments just "open the heavens wide" so we can see what's in front of us...
> 
> I could share a similar incidence... I was going on about the things I wanted more out of him (can we finally throw me down on the bed hubby, ravage me, TAKE ME! -our fights are so ridiculous!).. like I wanted to "change him"...just in a couple areas - and keep the rest.. ya know.. a tremendous amount to love there !...
> 
> ...


Mr. SA is a great guy.  

And a lucky guy, too!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

jld said:


> Very smart, MEM.
> 
> *I can't help but respect people who know what they're doing. Even if I don't necessarily like them, I respect them.*


I agree with the "not necessarily liking them" part...there are plenty of powerful , can I add narcissistic INTELLIGENCE in our world.... some have climbed the ladder of success on the backs of others, knew people in high places, that sort of thing...

Sure we need to show RESPECT.. but if they are Scrooge -like in character.. one thing is for sure.. I WON'T LIKE THEM or would even want them in my life.. If they are my employer..I'd have to put up with them.... be a model employee but I still won't think much of them. 

I associate Respect -with Honor.. not everyone who is successful or intelligent is Honorable.. 

I guess I appreciate a Humble Leader... not a Pr*ck.. I look at







... OMG... Humility.. that man has none. Though my husband gets a charge out him ...

We laughed so hard watching the news one night..I guess Aerosmith didn't want Trump using their songs on his Campaign & in the background of this report where he was speaking... they had Twisted Sisters "We're not gonna take it.. NO, we're not gonna take it" playing.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I agree with the "not necessarily liking them" part...there are plenty of powerful , can I add narcissistic INTELLIGENCE in our world.... some have climbed the ladder of success on the backs of others, knew people in high places, that sort of thing...
> 
> Sure we need to show RESPECT.. but if they are Scrooge -like in character.. one thing is for sure.. I WON'T LIKE THEM or would even want them in my life.. If they are my employer..I'd have to put up with them.... be a model employee but I still won't think much of them.
> 
> ...


That is not really what I meant by respect, though.

I am talking about genuine respect, the admiration you genuinely feel for people who genuinely deserve it.


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## RClawson (Sep 19, 2011)

SA your Husband is truly a "Real Man". Thanks to all of you for sharing your thoughts and teaching. I am a better person for what i have learned here.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Nothing like some pure, unadulterated condescension in a thread about humility.  




john117 said:


> The creative professions require a lot of pride to build up ones own conviction about their self worth - then be humble enough to accept criticism.
> 
> Those of you not in the creative professions truly don't understand how artists, architects, or industrial designers are educated or how they work. You need to "fake it till you make it" and play humble mouse at the same time. Fun


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

MEM, MEM...

My industrial design senior guy went to a school where pure, unadulterated condescension was part of the pedagogy.

Industrial design was the 2nd floor of the building and professors were known to hurl disapproved pieces of work out the window. Other students on campus learned to avoid that walkway... 

If you haven't attended a final design review you truly don't know what you're missing


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

John,

I get it. Reminds me of Richard Dryfuss. He speaks of his early career like so: 

Before I became known, I'd go into audition after audition and get rejected for the part. And I'd walk out thinking: what is wrong with those people, I was by far the best guy in there.

So I get that belief in self is both critical and necessary in hyper competitive fields. 

Just making the observation that there are many other professions - including sales - where rejection is frequent and confidence is absolutely necessary. 

So - turns out that folks outside the fields you mention - have some familiarity with the concept. 




john117 said:


> MEM, MEM...
> 
> My industrial design senior guy went to a school where pure, unadulterated condescension was part of the pedagogy.
> 
> ...


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think you have to have a lot of trust to be humble with your spouse. 

Or just a big need to be as honest as possible.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

JLD,
A lack of humility was the primary source of conflict in the first 20 years of our marriage. 

I truly believe this is a common thing - still - it's sad when you look back and realize that:
- Half those conflicts were about making a situation that wasn't 'about you', about you. Instead of taking care of your spouse, when it was 'about them'.
- The other half was caused by getting defensive when it really WAS about me. 





jld said:


> I think you have to have a lot of trust to be humble with your spouse.
> 
> Or just a big need to be as honest as possible.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Humility is a great lead on to be even more of a door mat if your partner does not believe in the give part of give and take. If they do, it works well. If not, no amount of humility will fix your problems.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> JLD,
> A lack of humility was the primary source of conflict in the first 20 years of our marriage.
> 
> I truly believe this is a common thing - still - it's sad when you look back and realize that:
> ...


Our marriage is not perfect, either, MEM. I think every marriage has its flaws. 

I was missing Dug last night. It was 7 pm and he had not called me yet.

A little bit later he contacted me, and I asked him why he waited so long. He started defending himself with something about working late and something else, can't remember.

But defending oneself never works. The issue was that I missed him. I wanted the reassurance that he cared about me and missed me, too. Getting into why he had not been in touch was irrelevant.

A few minutes of kind words and listening to me and everything was good between us.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

JLD, if this was "conflict" or "distress" in your marriage I have to say you have it good. There's a lot of darkness that needs to be personally experienced to understand. 

There's a lot of evil, intentional or not, in life. Count your blessings and give Dug a hug.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

john117 said:


> JLD, if this was "conflict" or "distress" in your marriage I have to say you have it good. There's a lot of darkness that needs to be personally experienced to understand.
> 
> There's a lot of evil, intentional or not, in life. Count your blessings and give Dug a hug.


Thank you for everything, @Duguesclin!!

((((((((((((Dug)))))))))))))


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Ugh, no, not a humble bone in my body. 

But at least I know it now and can admit it . . . to my husband, anyway


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> John,
> 
> I get it. Reminds me of Richard Dryfuss. He speaks of his early career like so:
> 
> ...


From my perspective, having to deal with tech sales people (someone PLEASE bring some Hewlett Packard catered sales food), the rejections are more founded in reality than not. If the HP stuff fits my purpose and I have the budget, in they come. 

Art is firmly in the "either they get it or they don't, and a lot more personal. Same as literature etc. 

Design or architecture, somewhere in the middle. Still very personal. But rationally personal.

Ironically, I could never do sales. I'm too honest


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

jld said:


> _"Humility is nothing but truth, and pride is nothing but lying."_
> 
> — Vincent de Paul


I really like this definition of humility. 

I think people often mistake groveling or pretending every answer is correct for humility. I disagree with that. I think humility is just being as honest and sincere as possible with other people and yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Pride is not lying. Excessive pride can lead to arrogance but taking pride in what you do is not arrogance.

Somehow, our value system needs to map into real life. Not all do. My Amish built kitchen is built to 3d print accuracy standards and is exceptional in every aspect (price included ). The craftsmen I talked to were very low key, the works. Yet nobody knows about their work, nor do I think they understand how they stack up to the competition. In this aspect humility serves little purpose.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

jld said:


> *I really like this definition of humility.
> 
> I think people often mistake groveling or pretending every answer is correct for humility. I disagree with that. I think humility is just being as honest and sincere as possible with other people and yourself.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



There is humble honesty.. and sometimes brutal honesty...they may both be honest.... but not necessarily spoken with humility. 



john117 said:


> *Pride is not lying. Excessive pride can lead to arrogance but taking pride in what you do is not arrogance.
> 
> Somehow, our value system needs to map into real life. Not all do. My Amish built kitchen is built to 3d print accuracy standards and is exceptional in every aspect (price included ). The craftsmen I talked to were very low key, the works. Yet nobody knows about their work, nor do I think they understand how they stack up to the competition. In this aspect humility serves little purpose*.


We live near the Amish too...We've had our roof done by them..we've bought Furniture from them... yes.. very humble people.. 

*Pride* is not so easily defined...anything Good can be corrupted.. Pride is like this... we need so much of it...but when it goes to our heads...we start looking down on others because they have not achieved as much as we have , then it's like a contamination of our character... This article calls it a "double edged" emotion, and separates Authentic pride from "Hubristic" pride.. 

 VS 



> We're Only Human...: The Two Faces of Pride
> 
> Pride has perplexed philosophers and theologians for centuries, and it is an especially paradoxical emotion in American culture. We applaud rugged individualism, self-reliance and personal excellence, and indeed encourage these traits with gold stars and blue ribbons and statues. But don’t you dare let it go to your head. Too much pride can easily tip the balance toward vanity and haughtiness and self-love.
> 
> ...


Another article differentiating these 2 here...  Pride and Creativity -How is pride related to creative achievement?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

JLD,
Yes yes yes. 

I remember a brief conversation with our CEO about staffing. I called him and the first words out of his mouth were: You cannot hire any more people. 

Dave - our CEO - was an intimidating guy. 175 missions as a fighter pilot in Viet Nam. Stanford university grad. 

Anyway - that was his opener. You can't hire any more consultants. 

He's the boss right? I just flipped the 'all about you switch'. 

He's the CEO, mainly cares about revenue and margin. So I responded with: 

We are running about 10% ahead of forecast for this quarter, revenue and margin. So we don't need to talk about that. Can we spend a couple minutes on the upcoming two quarters?

He said sure. And I said: the target for next quarter is X and the following qaurter is 10% above X. He agreed. Hell they were HIS targets, meaning he had creating them. 

Then I asked him if the average amount of revenue per consultant was going to remain at $175/hour. And therefore at 25k per month. He said yes. But he hesitated first. Which was why I knew we were good to go. 

When I said: So we need to have N consultants for next quarter. 

And without any hesitation Dave said: you need to hire a bunch of folks. 

And we then agreed how many I could immediately hire and that we would revisit this discussion of head count and hiring after I added that many folks. 

I never once used the phrases: I disagree or you're wrong. 

Thing is the US Air Force told Dave his obligatory service was complete after he flew his 100th mission in Viet Nam. 

He VOLUNTEERED to fly another 75 missions. He LIKED combat. And frankly he wasn't just good at it. He was crazy good. 

Last thing I was going to do was FIGHT with Dave. Or equally bad, give him the idea I WANTED to fight with him. 

Only thing I did was tell him the truth, in a clear concise manner. 




jld said:


> I really like this definition of humility.
> 
> I think people often mistake groveling or pretending every answer is correct for humility. I disagree with that. I think humility is just being as honest and sincere as possible with other people and yourself.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

When money is involved, humility and pride often take back seat compared to dollars... People do drive companies to the ground but not because of excessive pride  but due to bad advise... I can think of Detroit companies here...

My boss would have done the same thing and he's the pointy hair ultraconservative type.


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