# So that happened...



## TG341637

Not really sure how to do this. I just really feel the need to talk to someone but I'm an extremely private guy and there's nobody I know who I could talk to about this.

Background: My wife and I have been together 12 years and we have a beautiful daughter. We have rarely fought over the course of our relationship.

Trust has never been an issue for me before. If she was late getting home my response was always on the range of "LOL that must have been a big coffee" to "You missed your TV show" - I've never had any reason not to trust her before.

She doesn't drink often, although when she does drink she tends to drink a little more than maybe she should. After a couple of too-drunk episodes very early on she toned it way back.

Flash forward to last weekend. We were supposed to go to a halloween party together. I was very sick and miserable all day however, so I decided to stay home instead. She was staying overnight as the party was in a different city.

Next day she comes home and is acting very upset, but she's clammed right up and doesn't want to talk about it. She finally says she "did something stupid, and please don't leave me."

Well I knew exactly what THAT meant, because I only ever had one rule for her: don't cheat on me, because I was cheated on in my previous committed relationship 16 years ago; I never even saw my fiancee again after I found out, and I never wanted to go through those feelings again.

So as the story came out in bits and pieces: At the party she was drinking of course, and she started making out with some random guy. Her friends tried intervening but she told them she was allowed - several of our friends are in open marriages so this likely wasn't questioned much. A couple foggy hours later she was woken up in the bathroom - with no pants on. Whether the guy was still in the bathroom at that point or had left is not clear.

She insists they didn't actually go through with it (which I don't believe but she may be lying to herself) but it really doesn't matter either way, the intent was there. Even she admits that alcohol just removes the danger-sense, it doesn't affect what you want.

She wanted to know what she could do, that she didn't want to lose me and that she'd never drink again.

I told her right away a) marriage counselling and b) get tested. She didn't like B because she insisted they didn't do anything but she agreed.

We go for counselling in a few days for the first time, but I've found her to be quite pushy at trying to get back to the way things used to be between us - acting lovey-dovey, constant ILUs and miss-u's when we're not together (a lot this week, for previously scheduled reasons), and dissecting every single word I say looking for "hope" moving forward.

I'm still trying to figure out how I can ever trust her again... 

I know the counselling will help with that. I do still love her - it's hard to shut off 12 years or your life like that after all! - but I'm also just unable to understand why she did what she did. After all, millions of people get drunk every night and the vast majority of them don't cheat...

I don't know that I'm looking for advice in particular (although if anyone has any that would be great) but I needed to talk/type this all somewhere... I've been flipping between anger/disgust/depression/unfeeling all week.

Thanks
TG


----------



## The Middleman

I hate to say this because it's not constructive advice for you, but this is the reason why my wife and I have never gone out socially without each other. It can only lead to trouble. I'm sorry for the situation you find yourself in.


----------



## GusPolinski

She's lying.

They f*cked.

Might be a good time to re-evaluate not only the future of your marriage, but also your friendships w/ anyone in an open marriage, as one or more of them may have played an indirect role in terms of influencing her.


----------



## Marc878

Cheaterspeak. Kissing = yep had full sexual intercourse.

No pants on??? 

This was no mistake she did this with 100% intent. Friends tried to intervene and it didn't phase her. 

Alcohol is no excuse she knew what she was doing and didn't care.

Don't kid yourself here because you need to know the truth about what you're dealing with. It's the only way you'll be able to deal with it long term if you can.

A blind man could see through it.


----------



## Marc878

If you get into counseling and they want to start keying in on how this was all your fault. Do yourself a big favor and get up walk out.

You don't need Bull sh!t at this time. If she can't own this then that'll tell you much about hour lack of future here.

By the way you have no concept of boundaries. Married women do not go to parties without their husbands. Do you see why now?

Laying down, rugsweeping this will make you her doormat. Take control. Make her own this.


----------



## Marduk

Dude...

I struggle with her not remembering what happened before she woke up with no pants on... so they had sex. 

And I struggle more with her hanging out alone with folks in open marriages... and this being her first time at this dance.

Your call. Do you want to reconcile?


----------



## Marc878

One other thing. Give some long hard thought on whether you can live with the betrayal long term.

If you can't file for divorce and move on. You'll just waste years and time/life if you can't accept the cheating which is what this truly is.


----------



## TG341637

GusPolinski said:


> She's lying.
> 
> They f*cked.
> 
> Might be a good time to re-evaluate not only the future of your marriage, but also your friendships w/ anyone in an open marriage, as one or more of them may have played an indirect role in terms of influencing her.


Ahh, "friends" is such a broad term these days. i guess more like acquaintances that we run into once or twice a year but know from high school. I don't even know if any of them were at the party; just that they are known amongst the group that was there.

And, as I said in my original post, I'm already sure about what they did, hence my insistence on testing.


----------



## Marc878

I wouldn't go near her until you get the results back.

No matter what you have a tough road ahead.

Very sorry you are here.


----------



## GusPolinski

TG341637 said:


> Ahh, "friends" is such a broad term these days. i guess more like acquaintances that we run into once or twice a year but know from high school. I don't even know if any of them were at the party; just that they are known amongst the group that was there.


Doesn't mean that one (or more) of them hasn't been in her ear for some time now, all the while extolling the virtues of putting one's need to perpetually seek out new sexual partners ahead of his or her commitment to his/her spouse, children, and family unit.



TG341637 said:


> And, as I said in my original post, I'm already sure about what they did, hence my insistence on testing.


Gotcha.

Any kids? Sorry if I missed that in your initial post.


----------



## TG341637

I love how the posts here are so contradictory... half of you say "don't accept blame, make her own this, etc" - which I get. The other half are trying to assign blame to me for my choice of "friends" or my lack of boundaries.

No, whatever happens, we are not having sex until she's cleared by the tests.

I am a little worried about the counselling. I rejected the first one that was recommended to us because one of the things they say they do is "focus on the future and leave the past out of the sessions" - I don't even see how that could possibly work.


----------



## GusPolinski

Marc878 said:


> *I wouldn't go near her until you get the results back.*
> 
> No matter what you have a tough road ahead.
> 
> Very sorry you are here.


Start wrapping it at the very least.

I say that because, for one inclined to reconcile, the omnipresent monster known as hysterical bonding will not be denied.

Anyway, that (the sudden appearance of condoms in the bedroom) ought to send a resoundingly potent message.


----------



## TG341637

GusPolinski said:


> Doesn't mean that one (or more) of them hasn't been in her ear for some time now, all the while extolling the virtues of putting one's need to perpetually seek out new sexual partners ahead of his or her commitment to his/her spouse, children, and family unit.
> 
> Any kids? Sorry if I missed that in your initial post.


Possibly true, but really irrelevant - after all she doesn't have to listen. 

And yes we have a daughter.


----------



## Marduk

TG341637 said:


> Possibly true, but really irrelevant - after all she doesn't have to listen.
> 
> And yes we have a daughter.


What do you want? Do you want to reconcile, or exit, or are you still making up your mind?


----------



## GusPolinski

TG341637 said:


> I love how the posts here are so contradictory... half of you say "don't accept blame, make her own this, etc" - which I get. *The other half are trying to assign blame to me for my choice of "friends"* or my lack of boundaries.
> 
> No, whatever happens, we are not having sex until she's cleared by the tests.


No no no no no... you're misunderstanding --

There is ZERO blame (at least none directed at you) in any of the statements that I've contributed. _What your wife has done is 100% on *HER*_, and that's even if she's allowed others to unduly influence her behavior.

Oh, and by the way... it can take 6+ months for some of the results to come back, during which time it would be wise for her to be tested again.



TG341637 said:


> I am a little worried about the counselling. I rejected the first one that was recommended to us because one of the things they say they do is "focus on the future and leave the past out of the sessions" - I don't even see how that could possibly work.


Exactly correct. That's a bunch of rugsweeping hogwash, and any HONEST attempt at reconciliation should include precisely NONE of that bullsh*t.


----------



## TG341637

marduk said:


> What do you want? Do you want to reconcile, or exit, or are you still making up your mind?


Awww, you mean "invent time machine and go back to stop it" isn't an option?

I'm still making up my mind. I can't imagine living without her but on the other hand I know that staying won't be the same either.


----------



## Marduk

TG341637 said:


> Awww, you mean "invent time machine and go back to stop it" isn't an option?
> 
> I'm still making up my mind. I can't imagine living without her but on the other hand I know that staying won't be the same either.


I can understand that.

I couldn't take the whole rug sweeping shtick though. 

I'd advise some space -- sleep in another bedroom and get her to cut out the lovey dovey stuff until you make up your mind.


----------



## GusPolinski

TG341637 said:


> Possibly true, but really irrelevant - after all she doesn't have to listen.


Absolutely correct, but -- if you're looking to reconcile -- you HAVE to be aware of any toxic influences and be ready to eject them from your lives.



TG341637 said:


> And yes we have a daughter.


How old is she?

How is she doing w/ all of this?

She HAS to have noticed that the dynamic within the house has changed, even if she's not quite old enough to pinpoint what, why, etc.


----------



## Marc878

TG341637 said:


> I love how the posts here are so contradictory... half of you say "don't accept blame, make her own this, etc" - which I get. The other half are trying to assign blame to me for my choice of "friends" or my lack of boundaries.
> 
> No, whatever happens, we are not having sex until she's cleared by the tests.
> 
> I am a little worried about the counselling. I rejected the first one that was recommended to us because one of the things they say they do is "focus on the future and leave the past out of the sessions" - I don't even see how that could possibly work.


Just because they are a counselor doesn't mean they aren't also a moron. How you deal with the past determines your future.

This has nothing to do with being your fault but good marriages have boundaries. It's just common sense. You aren't perfect. None of us are but infidelity is 100% choice on the one who commits it.


----------



## TG341637

GusPolinski said:


> Absolutely correct, but -- if you're looking to reconcile -- you HAVE to be aware of any toxic influences and be ready to eject them from your lives.


Thanks I'll keep that in mind.


> How old is she?
> 
> How is she doing w/ all of this?
> 
> She HAS to have noticed that the dynamic within the house has changed, even if she's not quite old enough to pinpoint what, why, etc.


she's 4 and she seems okay so far. If anything she's enjoying more attention from me.


----------



## alte Dame

I wouldn't go to MC with her until she has had her own IC to figure out why she has such awful boundaries. I also wouldn't believe that it was the alcohol that did this. Lots of married people get drunk and don't cheat on their spouses. 

What I notice reading threads here is that the immediate reaction of a BS upon discovering the cheating is to desperately want to put things back to the way they were. There is a need to fix it by knitting the marriage/family back together asap. After some time has passed, however, the BS more often than not feels increasing doubt about reconciliation. Once the reality of the betrayal truly sinks in, the WS no longer looks like the spouse that the BS knew. The spouse is broken; the marriage is broken. There is no quick fix that will make that not be true.

So, give yourself some time before you commit to even attempting reconciliation. And certainly don't reflexively see a MC. First deal with the cheating, then deal with the marriage. If you can't get past the cheating, MC is superfluous.


----------



## the guy

The emotional roller coaster thing is normal. 
In my case I gave my old lady a year, she didn't know it but back then but I figured she would phuck up again and I would just bail.

They way I see it folks deserve a second chance....it's when they screw up again that's when shyt hits the fan hard....this ain't baseball we only get second chances to make shyt right after that ....you phuck up again you are done.

I've gotten my share of second chances from my folks, a teacher, a cop, even a judge...but once one uses up that second chance well lets just say they have been warned and if one is that stupid to phuck up twice then they deserve what's coming.

Granted, bad behavior deserves consequences.....so for now your old lady deserves a good hard spanking, double secret probation and spend several years of building that trust back by submitting to the cheaters prison you subject her to.

If she is willing to lose the privacy, the toxic friends, and taking the tests needed to verify that she is clean that cheater prison has to offer then you guys have something to work on.

If she has this kind of remorse and can handle these kind of consequences you guys might make it.

Most of the time they screw up, don't like the cheater prison they are in and bail.

At the end of the day does your old lady have the submission it will take to rebuild the trust? 

All of this just might push her away.....but if she wants to keep her marriage she will do the heavy lifting.

Lack of privacy, being transparentcy, and having to be accountable may be a problem for chicks that get laid in the bathroom by some strange.

Your best bet is let the emotional roller coast settle down and take the time to look at what investment you have made in the last 12 yrs and see if your old lady is worth a second chance.

Just be warned it is rare that a cheater is that remorseful for any length of time. Typically they are back at it with the same guy once their betrayed spouse cools off.

One more thing, that guy that like phucking married chicks probably has your old ladies phone number.....


----------



## Roselyn

TG341637 said:


> Well I knew exactly what THAT meant, because I only ever had one rule for her: don't cheat on me, because I was cheated on in my previous committed relationship 16 years ago; I never even saw my fiancee again after I found out, and I never wanted to go through those feelings again.
> 
> So as the story came out in bits and pieces: At the party she was drinking of course, and she started making out with some random guy. Her friends tried intervening but she told them she was allowed - several of our friends are in open marriages so this likely wasn't questioned much. A couple foggy hours later she was woken up in the bathroom - with no pants on. Whether the guy was still in the bathroom at that point or had left is not clear.
> 
> TG


Career woman here, 57 years old, and 35 years married (first marriage for both of us). Your wife lied to her friends and told them she had an open marriage. She definitely want sex with this man, no matter what everyone thought, including you. She had sex; no question about it. This is in many scenarios in college years. But then, those are irresponsible kids and not married without children.

You've drawn your line and she crossed it. She cheated. She cannot be trusted. Divorce her. She will do this again and will cross the line as she knows that you will overlook her cheating. This is her penalty.

In today's society, it is no longer taboo to live together without marriage. If you want to reconcile, live together but not in marriage. She broke your vows. She is girlfriend material. You should be firm in your boundaries otherwise, you will continue to move the gold post. In the end, you will lose your mind!


----------



## tom67

Do you know the guy she was with?
Is he married?
Blow up his world if you can JMO.


----------



## Chaparral

You need to start checking her texts,phone bills, computers, emails etc. and see if this rabbit hole is deeper than you thought.

The only reason she told you may be because she thought someone else would.

Also consider putting a voice activated recorder in her car to see who she's talking about this to and what she's saying.

Good luck. Get IC for yourself too.


----------



## Divinely Favored

You know several STD do not show up for months, ie. Hepatitis and hiv. Talk to the friends that were there. Someone saw them going at it. Did she wash clothes quickly or throw away those panties. You can always polygraph. If she was upset, she remembers what happened. It will never be the way it was before.

If you are married you are now one. That means a spouse only goes to social events, clubs, bars if the spouse is going too. If one of you is sick, etc. You don't go. You should be home taking care of your sick spouse.

She members and knows what she has done. Maybe not every detail but a lot.


----------



## BobSimmons

TG341637 said:


> I love how the posts here are so contradictory... half of you say "don't accept blame, make her own this, etc" - which I get. The other half are trying to assign blame to me for my choice of "friends" or my lack of boundaries.
> 
> No, whatever happens, we are not having sex until she's cleared by the tests.
> 
> I am a little worried about the counselling. I rejected the first one that was recommended to us because one of the things they say they do is "focus on the future and leave the past out of the sessions" - I don't even see how that could possibly work.


I love how you ask for advice and when you get the varied differing opinions of varied folks you castigate them for it.

What did you expect? Advice? :grin2:


----------



## MJJEAN

Roselyn said:


> Your wife lied to her friends and told them she had an open marriage. She definitely wanted sex with this man


This stood out to me, too.

She got drunk, started making out with a man in front of multiple people who know she's married, her friends tried to stop her, so she LIED to them so that she could continue with this other man. Then she came home, knowing there were many witnesses to her infidelity, and told you to cover her own azz because she knew it would eventually get back to you. Then she told you a LIE about how far it went. 

If she was clear headed enough to make up a LIE to her friends about being in an open marriage, she was clearheaded enough to know exactly what she was doing.


----------



## Heatherknows

marduk said:


> Dude...
> 
> I struggle with her not remembering what happened before she woke up with no pants on... so they had sex.


That is bizarre.


----------



## Starstarfish

I'll be the one to say ... your wife needs to think about AA whether as her IC or with it. Anytime she drinks she overdoes it, and apparently it's a problem. 

I'm not saying this as a way of excusing the cheating behavior. Evidently, she needs to not drink and needs to discuss why she does what she does when drinking and AA and their resources might be better inclined to that than other counselors.


----------



## Rottdad42

Sorry man. She goes out, without you to another city. First time? She has sex, because just a kiss means that. Kids involved with the stay or go mentality. It's happened before, for you, major trigger. The deal breaker, don't cheat. You explained to her that you won't tolerate infidelity. You walked before. If your on the fence about leaving know this, kids are resilient, co-parenting is possible. I'm all about R, if it's an EA. My personal thought about PA, not staying. Mind movies for me are relentless, I can't live that way. I dumped a 20 year marriage. For me it was not necessarily easy, but the choice to leave mentally, easy, easy and easy.
That being said, if true remorse, I mean true, there is a small chance, with proper long term counseling this can have a fix, in terms of staying together. For me I had that, but I couldn't trust her and more I had no respect for my ex, none.
BTW when they say alcohol was involved, I really don't care, it's a cop out and more importantly a really bad excuse. 

In the end you must ask yourself can I forgive, because you will never forget. You are a faithful person I gather from reading. What makes you think she won't do this again. You will never know. You left a long term before, what's changed, kids. Don't let that be a deciding factor. Because the fallout from this leads to mommy and daddy being mad, arguing etc.. I would not want my kids to bare witness to that.

Do what you think is right, it's not a selfish decision. Me personally I would never want to be intimate with my SO, again, ever. That is why I walked. Not the sole reason, but it helped me decide. 

I don't know your age, I assume your late 30s. You can begin again. I did it at 40, it wasn't easy. I married a hottie, with a great personality, smart, driven etc..and I'm happy. Go find happy. Good luck.


----------



## TG341637

Is there a post anywhere with what all these acronyms are? I'm figuring out most, but it would be easier to just look them up.

Thanks to everyone who took the time to reply.

I'm not worried about my daughter, at all. I personally went through 8 years of my parents staying together "for the kids" before finally separating and I know I would have preferred they get out sooner (and with less antagonism).

The counsellor we found specializes in various forms of betrayal including infidelity. I believe it's one intro session together, then individual after that until she thinks we're ready to have another together session.

Why am I even thinking about staying despite my rule, and what is different from last time if I'm not worried about my daughter? Two things. First, at least she told me about it herself rather than hoping I wouldn't find out. Second, this relationship has been more than 10x longer than the first one.

I know it's absolutely not my fault ... and I won't take any blame for it. 

By the way, the two early-days drinking incidents weren't anything like this, it was more me having to deal with her totally passed out and getting her home. Her insistence she'll never drink again seems weird to me though; more like she'll never put herself in a tempting situation again than anything else.

I don't really know how married boundaries are supposed to work, apparently. Are we basically supposed to babysit each other the rest of our lives?


----------



## rubymoon

TG341637 said:


> we are not having sex until she's cleared by the tests.


AIDS takes 3 months to come out on tests. So, whatever she does now will not be fully indicative of her health condition.


----------



## LosingHim

Coming from someone who cheated in a similar situation - drunk, lonely and pressured - I want to give a different perspective. Could you talk to her and find out WHY she did this? Is there something else deeper going on? Does she have feelings that she thinks pushed her this way? THESE FEELINGS DONT EXCUSE WHAT SHE DID. But it may give you clarity in what possibly led to it. Is she just "that way" or is she dealing with some demons that she doesn't know how to handle? The choice to stay is yours and yours alone. I hope you CHOOSE to stay. Not because you deserve what happened, but because I know I wish my husband would CHOOSE to see my remorse and stay with me.


----------



## rubymoon

TG341637 said:


> Is there a post anywhere with what all these acronyms are? I'm figuring out most, but it would be easier to just look them up.
> 
> Thanks to everyone who took the time to reply.
> 
> I'm not worried about my daughter, at all. I personally went through 8 years of my parents staying together "for the kids" before finally separating and I know I would have preferred they get out sooner (and with less antagonism).
> 
> The counsellor we found specializes in various forms of betrayal including infidelity. I believe it's one intro session together, then individual after that until she thinks we're ready to have another together session.
> 
> Why am I even thinking about staying despite my rule, and what is different from last time if I'm not worried about my daughter? Two things. First, at least she told me about it herself rather than hoping I wouldn't find out. Second, this relationship has been more than 10x longer than the first one.
> 
> I know it's absolutely not my fault ... and I won't take any blame for it.
> 
> By the way, the two early-days drinking incidents weren't anything like this, it was more me having to deal with her totally passed out and getting her home. Her insistence she'll never drink again seems weird to me though; more like she'll never put herself in a tempting situation again than anything else.
> 
> I don't really know how married boundaries are supposed to work, apparently. Are we basically supposed to babysit each other the rest of our lives?


I am glad you haven't lost common sense in the fog of your hurt feelings.

Married women DO go out by themselves and not all of them cheat. Married people should have space, time and friends to themselves. No babysitting should be required for adults. If one feels that way, then one must be struggling with paranoia. 

Please give it a try. You can divorce at any time - it's never to late to kill your marriage. I sympathize with your pain and wish you all the best either way, but please listen to YOURself first. There are a lot of haters on here who repeat one word in every post "divorce".


----------



## TG341637

rubymoon said:


> AIDS takes 3 months to come out on tests. So, whatever she does now will not be fully indicative of her health condition.


I know she'll have to go back for another test later. Given that I'm not at all interested in hopping into bed with her right now... we'll figure out that problem if/when it comes to that.



LosingHim said:


> Coming from someone who cheated in a similar situation - drunk, lonely and pressured - I want to give a different perspective. Could you talk to her and find out WHY she did this? Is there something else deeper going on? Does she have feelings that she thinks pushed her this way? THESE FEELINGS DONT EXCUSE WHAT SHE DID. But it may give you clarity in what possibly led to it. Is she just "that way" or is she dealing with some demons that she doesn't know how to handle? The choice to stay is yours and yours alone. I hope you CHOOSE to stay. Not because you deserve what happened, but because I know I wish my husband would CHOOSE to see my remorse and stay with me.


i asked her about that. I didn't really understand her explanation. I guess I should ask again.



rubymoon said:


> I am glad you haven't lost common sense in the fog of your hurt feelings.
> 
> Married women DO go out by themselves and not all of them cheat. Married people should have space, time and friends to themselves. No babysitting should be required for adults. If one feels that way, then one must be struggling with paranoia.
> 
> Please give it a try. You can divorce at any time - it's never to late to kill your marriage. I sympathize with your pain and wish you all the best either way, but please listen to YOURself first. There are a lot of haters on here who repeat one word in every post "divorce".


As with all things, for some people this issue is black and white and for others it's grey. I want to at least go into the counselling on Monday with an open mind.


----------



## Marc878

TG341637 said:


> Is there a post anywhere with what all these acronyms are? I'm figuring out most, but it would be easier to just look them up.
> 
> Thanks to everyone who took the time to reply.
> 
> I'm not worried about my daughter, at all. I personally went through 8 years of my parents staying together "for the kids" before finally separating and I know I would have preferred they get out sooner (and with less antagonism).
> 
> The counsellor we found specializes in various forms of betrayal including infidelity. I believe it's one intro session together, then individual after that until she thinks we're ready to have another together session.
> 
> Why am I even thinking about staying despite my rule, and what is different from last time if I'm not worried about my daughter? Two things. First, at least she told me about it herself rather than hoping I wouldn't find out. Second, this relationship has been more than 10x longer than the first one.
> 
> I know it's absolutely not my fault ... and I won't take any blame for it.
> 
> By the way, the two early-days drinking incidents weren't anything like this, it was more me having to deal with her totally passed out and getting her home. Her insistence she'll never drink again seems weird to me though; more like she'll never put herself in a tempting situation again than anything else.
> 
> I don't really know how married boundaries are supposed to work, apparently. Are we basically supposed to babysit each other the rest of our lives?


No c'mon! Just some basic rules. You do not have close female friends you see alone and neither does she. You don't go out and party alone. 

Things like that. In situations such as this nothing may happen but if you stick to boundaries they WON'T happen.


----------



## aine

TG341637, of course your WW wants to push things to being the way they were, it is called rug sweeping. You have to tell her that you will be taking time to decide whether you want to stay in the marriage or not. She has lost the privelege of making any demands of you.

I would suggest you take care of yourself and your daughter, take it slow, things are still raw, do not be rushed into anything. There is something fundamentally wrong in your relationship if your WW lowered her inhibitions so much to sleep (she had sex) with a stranger in a Bathroom. She also lacks self respect imo.

Before any joint counselling, your WW needs individual counseling to see why she did what she did, she has to own her issues and have them dealt with first because nothing can work otherwise.

TG341637, sorry you are here.


----------



## Marc878

The good thing you have going here is she confessed probably realizing since there were people she knew there you'd find out anyway. Whatever the reason that's a good thing.

I'm not for divorce immediately but this is the thing. Some can never get over a betrayal and end up divorcing anyway. Why waste the time???

If you do try and reconcile there's a plan here that's good. Lots of good info and for the most part excellent advice from a lot of folks who've been there.


----------



## GusPolinski

LosingHim said:


> Coming from someone who cheated in a similar situation - drunk, lonely and pressured - I want to give a different perspective. *Could you talk to her and find out WHY she did this?* Is there something else deeper going on? Does she have feelings that she thinks pushed her this way? THESE FEELINGS DONT EXCUSE WHAT SHE DID. But it may give you clarity in what possibly led to it. Is she just "that way" or is she dealing with some demons that she doesn't know how to handle? The choice to stay is yours and yours alone. I hope you CHOOSE to stay. Not because you deserve what happened, but because I know I wish my husband would CHOOSE to see my remorse and stay with me.


I'll save him some time here...

She did it because she _wanted_ to do it.



rubymoon said:


> I am glad you haven't lost common sense in the fog of your hurt feelings.
> 
> Married women DO go out by themselves and not all of them cheat. *Married people should have space, time and friends to themselves. No babysitting should be required for adults. If one feels that way, then one must be struggling with paranoia.*
> 
> Please give it a try. You can divorce at any time - it's never to late to kill your marriage. I sympathize with your pain and wish you all the best either way, but please listen to YOURself first. There are a lot of haters on here who repeat one word in every post "divorce".


Or the trauma of a past indiscretion.


----------



## TRy

TG341637 said:


> At the party she was drinking of course, and she started making out with some random guy. Her friends tried intervening but she told them she was allowed - several of our friends are in open marriages so this likely wasn't questioned much. A couple foggy hours later she was woken up in the bathroom - with no pants on.


 She cheated on you in front of people that know you and are a part of your life. She was not so drunk that she could not convince her friends that it was OK for her to do this and to show them that she really wanted to do this with this other man. She only told you because when she was found without her pants on she knew that someone would tell you. Like most cheaters she is only admitting to what others saw and know about, but not to what only she would know. She is a typical unremorseful cheater that wants to lie to you and rug sweep after cheating on you in the most humiliating and disrespectful way in front of people that you know. If you stay with her after this, the next time that you see these other people, they will know that she was right in saying that at the end of the day you would allow it.

Without telling her that you will be contacting anyone, tell her that you need to know the names of everyone that knows so that you can avoid having to look any of them in the face. Pay attention to who she left out, because she may not tell you the name of the person that she felt was most likely to tell you what happened if she did not (which is why she told you). Get the name of the other man, and do not buy into the random dude BS. Get these names from her now. Then secretly put together a call list so that you can rapid call all of them, including the other man, to hear what happened. You want to rapid call because once you call one of them, you will be in a race with your wife in calling them as she tries to shut this down. Without telling them that you will be calling others, tell each of them not to call your wife to tell her that you called, but tell them that if asked by your wife they can tell her about the call as you do not want to put them on the spot. This may slow down them calling your wife as they think this through. This may be the only chance that you have if finding out what happened.


----------



## rubymoon

GusPolinski said:


> Or the trauma of a past indiscretion.


That's the thing - you should get over it over time. If you don't, then there is something broken inside you. You should at least try to get over it. I see a lot of people enjoy being self righteous suffers way more than emotionally healthy individuals.


----------



## rubymoon

Marc878 said:


> I'm not for divorce immediately but this is the thing. Some can never get over a betrayal and end up divorcing anyway. Why waste the time???


To figure out if he is one of those who is capable of forgiveness or not.


----------



## TG341637

Marc878 said:


> The good thing you have going here is she confessed probably realizing since there were people she knew there you'd find out anyway. Whatever the reason that's a good thing.
> 
> I'm not for divorce immediately but this is the thing. Some can never get over a betrayal and end up divorcing anyway. Why waste the time???
> 
> If you do try and reconcile there's a plan here that's good. Lots of good info and for the most part excellent advice from a lot of folks who've been there.


Maybe, maybe not. The group was her old friends whom I know but was never really close to. But I know what you mean. I also wouldn't have any trouble cutting them right out of our lives if needed.

There's a plan... where? Was that supposed to be a link? Or just here, the forums in general?


----------



## TRy

LosingHim said:


> Coming from someone who cheated in a similar situation - drunk, lonely and pressured


 Sorry but I call bull to this she was "lonely and pressured" into cheating false excuse. Not only did she have friends with her that were talking to her about this, but they were in fact trying to pressure her into not cheating.


----------



## GusPolinski

rubymoon said:


> That's the thing - you should get over it over time. If you don't, then there is something broken inside you. You should at least try to get over it. I see a lot of people enjoy being self righteous suffers way more than emotionally healthy individuals.


I'm going to channel @happyman64 here...

No one gets _over_ it. Many get _through_ it, but no one gets _over_ it.

Still, terminology aside, you're not wrong. Well... you're not _completely_ wrong.

But should certain freedoms continue to be extended if there isn't an immediate AND persistent change in behavior...? There's no way to answer "yes" to that question w/o a profound amount of naiveté, and I wouldn't quite call that _emotionally healthy_. Not for an adult, anyway.

Either way, OP's wife has already offered to _never drink again_ in exchange for him agreeing to not divorce. Shouldn't that be taken as her basically admitting that she's incapable of being in these situations and NOT making sh*tty decisions?



rubymoon said:


> To figure out if he is one of those who is capable of forgiveness or not.


Forgiveness and divorce aren't mutually exclusive concepts.


----------



## Thound

Man I'm so sorry for your situation. I wish I had some great awesome advice for you, but alas I don't. My only advice is don't let this be rugswepped. And it appears you are not going to let that happen, so you havt going for you already. And just to reinforce, this 100% her fault.


----------



## MJJEAN

TG341637 said:


> First, at least she told me about it herself rather than hoping I wouldn't find out. Second, this relationship has been more than 10x longer than the first one.
> 
> I don't really know how married boundaries are supposed to work, apparently. Are we basically supposed to babysit each other the rest of our lives?


First, regardless of what she or anyone else tries to tell you, you can be reasonably assured she didn't confess because she felt so terrible about what she did. If she felt that terrible about cheating on you, she'd have stopped the second her friends pointed out she was married and about to commit adultery.

She told you because there were so many witnesses, she knew you'd hear eventually, and she decided to come clean to minimize fallout for herself. Not to mention, she cheated before and got away with it, so why would she think this would be any different? As far as she can tell, she can get some strange here and there consequence free. Her evidence of this fact is that you're still with her.

Cheating was a selfish act and so was confessing to it.

Second, how much time you have invested in this marriage shouldn't even be a consideration. It's not the same marriage now that you know she cheated on you. Like it or not, this marriage has been forever altered by her actions. Your personal relationship will never be the same. Ever.

Try thinking of this like it's money and not time. If you invested thousands of dollars in bad stock, would you keep throwing more money in hoping that you get a return or just cut your losses and move on to a better investment?

How married boundaries work depends on the marriage. Would I be ok with DH going to a party with people known to be in open marriages while I stayed at home in another city? HELL NAW! And he's never given me a reason not to trust him. I go with an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. 

Would I go under the same circumstances? Nope!

I am fine with drinking and recreational drug use. I have been "what's my name?" intoxicated more than I can count. I never did a single thing in that state I wouldn't have done sober. Don't let her blame the alcohol. If she was coherent enough to lie to her friends about your marriage being open, she was in enough control to know what she was doing. 

She chose to drink to intoxication and she chose to lie to her friends in order to get laid. Her, not the drink.


----------



## workindad

OP sorry you are here. This is a very difficult issue to process.

My take based on the information that you have provided is that she is trickle truthing you. She knows what happened. She's trying to protect herself and possibly the other man.

Adults making out, plus alcohol, plus no pants equals fvcking. From the sounds of it, most likely unprotected sex as well.

Speaking of the piece of **** other man (POSOM) who is he?

I would give his SO, if he has one, a call. 

So she's at a party with people that know you and she's making out with some "random dude" for all to see. This doesn't sound like first time behavior to me. Maybe the first time she realized you had a good chance of finding out so she is giving you some BS explanation. This even goes on with others trying to get her to stop and she ignores them... that means she knew what she was doing and wanted it to happen. Again, not her first time. Either random dude is not so random or this is not her first rodeo.

Try this, tell her you want a complete written time line of what she "remembers". Ask her to also include any other incidents of betrayal. Then tell her you want to schedule a polygraph. Judge her reaction. Follow thru with the test, do not bluff. Don't be surprised if you get a parking lot confession.

This is also a great time to place a VAR- voice activated recorder in her car or in the house depending on where she makes calls. Also a keylogger on her PC. You may catch a call to her POSOM to set the story or searches on how to beat a polygraph, etc.

Bottom line, there is likely more that you don't know yet and you will have to dig or push her for the answers, if you want them.

In the mean time. Do a hard 180 and do it for you.
Do not have unprotected sex with your wife.
Take care of yourself- exercise and eat right.
Focus on you and your daughter.
Speak to a lawyer, know your rights.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

TG341637 said:


> Why am I even thinking about staying despite my rule, and what is different from last time if I'm not worried about my daughter? *Two things. First, at least she told me about it herself rather than hoping I wouldn't find out. Second, this relationship has been more than 10x longer than the first one.*


What if she had cheated and no one else were around? He leaves the party at 10:00, then she leaves to meet him at 10:30. Do you think that her conscience alone would have been enough for her to have told you about it this soon, or at all?...

There were people watching her making out with him and trying to stop her from going any further. Then she did it anyway. That speaks volumes. 

As far as comparing your current wife to a previous GF/fiancee that cheated on you multiple times. I think it's like comparing a boat that sank to boat that just started leaking. The potential is still there for the newer boat to sink in the future.

In my eyes, both are hollow victories.


I'm not saying that you should D, but if you want to successfully R you'd better lay down some serious consequences right now. And she's better follow along with them. The reason(s) why she cheated on you aren't just going to go away without her and you working on it/them.

Because, the sooner it all "goes back to normal", the easier it will be for it to happen again. Btw, it never quite goes back to the old normal. You're going to have to except that it will be replaced with the new normal. This is why many BS's can't R.

If I were you I'd stick around here for a while. Read through some of the past threads. Knowing what other people have gone though, did for a successful R, or why they ended up D'ing, will enable you to male sounder decisions in the future.


----------



## Marc878

TG341637 said:


> Maybe, maybe not. The group was her old friends whom I know but was never really close to. But I know what you mean. I also wouldn't have any trouble cutting them right out of our lives if needed.
> 
> There's a plan... where? Was that supposed to be a link? Or just here, the forums in general?


IN my opinion cut them out now. 

Don't for any reason take any further chances that you may live to regret. 

You are the victim here and it's important you take control. Set the rules. 

There are many articles here. I did not send links but will try and find some later. Just look up exposure, there is a link on what she needs to do to help you get over this, etc. you will also be able to determine from her actions whether she's really remorseful or not.

You can't control her or anyone permanently but for the time being you need to control your life with her.

If she sees there are no consequences why would she not do it again?

That does not mean you abuse her over this.


----------



## GusPolinski

TG341637 said:


> I don't really know how married boundaries are supposed to work, apparently. Are we basically supposed to babysit each other the rest of our lives?


No. Everyone should be able to expect integrity and faithfulness from his or her spouse w/o having to become a warden, and if that's the only way that you can get either from your wife, then it's just not worth it, because it won't have been genuine.


----------



## Marc878

Do some reading on How To Survive An Affair, have your wife read on how she's supposed handle her end.

Go into this with as much knowledge as you can.


----------



## rubymoon

GusPolinski said:


> No one gets _over_ it. Many get _through_ it, but no one gets _over_ it.


I did. Completely. The important difference might be that we spent years apart. And it did take me a long time to even think about it without hard feelings. But it did happen at the end.


----------



## alte Dame

TG341637 said:


> Maybe, maybe not. The group was her old friends whom I know but was never really close to. But I know what you mean. I also wouldn't have any trouble cutting them right out of our lives if needed.


This is a lesson in appropriate boundaries for you, in my opinion.

These people are neither friends to your WW and you, nor to your marriage. They should be out of your life forever. They stay in your WW's life only in the event of a divorce. Keeping people like this in and around your life establishes a gray area that shouldn't exist in a healthy marriage. Even if you divorce, they are not people whose values you should be legitimizing for yourself by keeping them in an acquaintance circle.


----------



## GusPolinski

rubymoon said:


> I did. Completely. The important difference might be that we spent years apart. And it did take me a long time to even think about it without hard feelings. But it did happen at the end.


You're talking about your ex, right?

As in a man that you divorced?


----------



## rubymoon

GusPolinski said:


> No. Everyone should be able to expect integrity and faithfulness from his or her spouse w/o having to become a warden, and if that's the only way that you can get either from your wife, then it's just not worth it, because it won't have been genuine.


Here I agree 100%


----------



## italianjob

So TG341637,

- I agree with most posters that she confessed because she knew word would get to you eventually. It's quite obvious if you think about it, if this was so public that people tried to tell her off, it doesn't take a genius to understand you would probably hear about it so she tried to sell you the watered down version before word reached you.

- I really don't care if you R or D, it's completely your call and I'm not going to advise you to take one course of action or the other. What I DO advise you to do is: try to find out more about how things went and try to know who the guy was. 

Because she really went out of her way to **** this guy, didn't she? Booze doesn't make you do things you don't want to do and if you're getting out of control, people telling you to think about what you're doing should be enough to wake you up enough to not do it.
So my guess is that either this was premeditated (she wanted to **** THAT GUY, was perfectly aware of what she was doing, and set out to do it) or maybe she has a history of behaving like this and you never knew about it (maybe the other times she was not so public about it).

So my advice is: do what you want to do but do it being perfectly aware of facts, do not accept her version at face value.

- About marital boundaries. IDK, everyone and every couple is different. Personally I don't attend that kind of wild parties (where people start ****ing like rabbits) since my early twenties, and would find attending them extremely inappropriate for married people in their 30s or 40s and with kids, and my wife would share this view.
We do have our nights out with our respective friends but we both do calmer activities. None of us has ever gone club hopping since married, for example, we feel you do that kind of thing to meet opposite sex people and you have no reason to do that if you're married. In other words, if you go to a meat market it's because you want to buy some meat, don't you think? But that's personal, of course.


----------



## rubymoon

GusPolinski said:


> You're talking about your ex, right?
> 
> As in a man that you divorced?


Nope  I'm talking about the man I am very happily married to now. The incident happened years ago when we were in a committed relationship. I now do trust him as much as I am capable of.


----------



## G.J.

Its pretty much certain

1.She wanted to do it 

2.She did it 

3.She was aware others may inform you

4.She's still lying to you about what fully happened

5.BIGGIE-The way she did it really makes me think this wasn't the first time and with her 'long coffees' and
'late homes' before I wonder how long she's been seeking extras

I would go total interrogator on her and sit her down with you guys alone alone in the house

FEED her alcohol before and during

Ask for the whole truth and tell her unless its forthcoming 'there and then' there's only going to be one outcome 
for you both

Tell her what ever she needs to hear that you want the truth and if you get the whole truth that's what 
matters...its the deceit so far that is making you want to separate.........yea lie to her


If she starts to open up go for the 'this isn't the first time is it'

At least after you will know more and can make decisions based on truth hopefully and not thoughts


----------



## GusPolinski

rubymoon said:


> Nope  I'm talking about the man I am very happily married to now. The incident happened years ago when we were in a committed relationship. I now do trust him as much as I am capable of.


Would you say that you're capable of less trust now than you were then?


----------



## rubymoon

boltam said:


> That's ridiculous. A person isn't broken and they shouldn't at least try to get over their partner cheating if it is a dealbreaker for them. I could argue that a person is broken if they try to forgive a cheater. Staying with a cheater is a recipe for a lifetime of well placed mistrust and misery.
> 
> 
> 
> I read your back story. You "got over" your husband's affair? You're in a sexless marriage with a guy who cheated on you and he doesn't satisfy your sexual needs:
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't get over it. You just gave up and accepted it.


Not any more. We fixed our issues. 

But I guess you know better about me and my feelings. And you sound very happy, too. But I'm not going to bother reading your stories. It really doesn't matter


----------



## syhoybenden

TG341637 said:


> Is there a post anywhere with what all these acronyms are?e[/QUOTE
> 
> go to http://talkaboutmarriage.com/forum-guidelines/464-common-message-board-abbreviations-acronyms.html


----------



## rubymoon

GusPolinski said:


> Would you say that you're capable of less trust now than you were then?


Yes. But I also think that it's because of age. I was a maximalist back then. And it was my mistake, too. We both grew up from that experience over the years. That was a lesson, no doubt about that.

Here is the difference: in SOME cases, I see the light in the end of that tunnel for some people. People who hold on to their misery never do - it's like they have the same answer to every situation "divorce". It's their pain talking. Understandable, but it should get better in terms of seeing the light, having hope, trust... again. Otherwise, I'd say it's broken.


----------



## rubymoon

boltam said:


> How often do you have sex?


It was health related - read it carefully. The health issue improved, so did sex. Now, you are welcome to hate me for being happy. :nerd:


----------



## TG341637

Oookay I think you two can find somewhere other than my thread to talk about that?


I agree it does seem a bit fishy that all of a sudden after 12 years something happens. I've pushed her on this and she insists it's the first time anything remotely like this has happened.

Do I push her so far as a polygraph? Those are probably expensive too. I guess the first question I have to figure out is, would the results even matter?


----------



## rubymoon

boltam said:


> I did read. I read all about how he refused to take the pills for his health related issues because he's not interested in having sex and you were considering cheating on him.


What does it prove? I was upset and emotional. I came here to vent. I am a woman and can be highly emotional at times. I did... Nothing happened. His health improved, everything got back to normal. I am back telling some people that there may be light at the end of the tunnel. You jump all over me and MY old issues with anger as if you are my husband who I cheated on. And you say you are not broken? 

Sorry. Your behavior is disturbing. I have better things to do. Bye.


----------



## G.J.

TG341637 said:


> Oookay I think you two can find somewhere other than my thread to talk about that?
> 
> 
> I agree it does seem a bit fishy that all of a sudden after 12 years something happens. I've pushed her on this and she insists it's the first time anything remotely like this has happened.
> 
> Do I push her so far as a polygraph? Those are probably expensive too. I guess the first question I have to figure out is, would the results even matter?


Do what i suggested ref Interrogate

I have actually done this and it was very very effective and I actually was later able to get confirmation on what she said (though its not appropriate on here to say how)
A couple more on here have done similar as they asked and I sent them more details..ill send you a private message so you can decide

Use the threat of the poly at the start so she understands you will want to verify


----------



## Roselyn

TG341637 said:


> I agree it does seem a bit fishy that all of a sudden after 12 years something happens. I've pushed her on this and she insists it's the first time anything remotely like this has happened.
> 
> Do I push her so far as a polygraph? Those are probably expensive too. I guess the first question I have to figure out is, would the results even matter?


OP, what do you want? All these spying and testing equipment are expensive, not to mention time consuming. See a psychologist. Get your mind in the right direction. If I'm the betting kind, I would bet my favorite shoes that you will not forget your wife's infidelity and her having sex with another man will continue to eat on your mind; sex in the bathroom where attendees were witnessed. You need to see a psychologist like today.


----------



## GusPolinski

rubymoon said:


> Yes. But I also think that it's because of age. I was a maximalist back then. *And it was my mistake, too.* We both grew up from that experience over the years. That was a lesson, no doubt about that.


Huh?

Either way, this is your second marriage, right? As in your were married before but divorced that guy...?

What happened there?



rubymoon said:


> Here is the difference: in SOME cases, I see the light in the end of that tunnel for some people.


See, that's just it... in SOME cases. When there is a commitment to not only atone for a transgression (which CANNOT occur, by the way, w/o complete and total honesty w/ respect to the true nature and depth of the transgression), but also an immediate, persistent, and concerted effort to change in such a way that the odds of said transgression -- or anything remotely similar to it -- occurring again are mitigated to such a degree that it becomes highly unlikely that it will ever occur again...

...then yeah. OK. _Maybe._



rubymoon said:


> People who hold on to their misery never do - it's like they have the same answer to every situation "divorce". It's their pain talking. Understandable, but it should get better in terms of seeing the light, having hope, trust... again. Otherwise, I'd say it's broken.


I'd like to clear up what I'm thinking is a huge misunderstanding on your part...

For a great many people, there is simply NO DESIRE WHATSOEVER to reconcile following infidelity. 

None. 

Zero. 

Zilch. 

Nada.

When that's the case, phrases like "seeing the light", "having hope", "learning to trust again", etc don't even enter the conversation, at least not within the context of reconciling the relationship in which said infidelity occurred.


----------



## Marduk

TG341637 said:


> Oookay I think you two can find somewhere other than my thread to talk about that?
> 
> 
> I agree it does seem a bit fishy that all of a sudden after 12 years something happens. I've pushed her on this and she insists it's the first time anything remotely like this has happened.
> 
> Do I push her so far as a polygraph? Those are probably expensive too. I guess the first question I have to figure out is, would the results even matter?


I would make a few phone calls to these friends. Then let her know you've talked to people at the party and you know the real story. 

Give her one chance to tell you everything, or you walk. 

Don't try to protect her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Marc878

TG341637 said:


> Oookay I think you two can find somewhere other than my thread to talk about that?
> 
> 
> I agree it does seem a bit fishy that all of a sudden after 12 years something happens. I've pushed her on this and she insists it's the first time anything remotely like this has happened.
> 
> Do I push her so far as a polygraph? Those are probably expensive too. I guess the first question I have to figure out is, would the results even matter?



Right now this should be all about you. What is it going to take to satisfy you. Take the time to think this through. I would want the truth and if it took a polygraph to get there. Well honey you don't want to then as long as you don't mind signing the divorce papers ok with me.

You need to be in the drivers seat here. What do you need???? Be strong and never back down. Don't give a damn who likes it either. 

You don't like the therapist/counselor tell them to stick it up there azz and leave. Do not put up with any Bulls!t here. This is your life!!!!!

You need to understand that. 

She's lying. She knows who the man is she Fvcked. Get the damn truth out of her. 

Exposure is also good. Let her family and close friends know. Keep it a secret means you're covering for her so hey I can do this again.


----------



## rubymoon

GusPolinski said:


> I'd like to clear up what I'm thinking is a huge misunderstanding on your part...
> 
> For a great many people, there is simply NO DESIRE WHATSOEVER to reconcile following infidelity.
> 
> None.
> 
> Zero.
> 
> Zilch.
> 
> Nada.


But the OP does want to at least explore it, doesn't he? So, may be in this particular case, it's a misunderstanding on your part? 

Anyway, best of luck to everyone. I do wish you happiness. And, no, thank you, but I do not want to talk about my first, second, third... marriages, my childhood and my nightmares. We will save it for a separate topic "Analyze this".


----------



## GusPolinski

rubymoon said:


> But the OP does want to at least explore it, doesn't he? So, may be in this particular case, it's a misunderstanding on your part?


He's clearly considering it, hence this thread.

Either way, my last reply was geared more toward getting you to understand the perspective of someone that might opt for divorce w/o even considering reconciliation than at convincing him to do so.



rubymoon said:


> Anyway, best of luck to everyone. I do wish you happiness. And, no, thank you, but I do not want to talk about my first, second, third... marriages, my childhood and my nightmares. We will save it for a separate topic "Analyze this".


Do you have your own thread? I'd like to read it.


----------



## rubymoon

GusPolinski said:


> Either way, my last reply was geared more toward getting you to understand the perspective of someone that might opt for divorce w/o even considering reconciliation than at convincing him to


I understand. I don't preach same for all. I'd say in MOST cases, you are right. But there may be exceptions. 

I suppose we agree after all.


----------



## GusPolinski

boltam said:


> Click on the username, then "View public profile" then click "Statistics", then click "View all threads started by this member"


LOL. I know how TAM works, thanks. That was an attempt at getting her to share... to _invite_ me to read her thread, if you will.

Plus, I believe that -- due to e-mail or password issues -- she's had more than a single user ID here.


----------



## GusPolinski

rubymoon said:


> I understand. I don't preach same for all. I'd say in MOST cases, you are right. But there may be exceptions.
> 
> I suppose we agree after all.


On many things, probably so.

What puts a burr in my saddle, so to speak, is any language aimed at shaming someone (especially BHs) for not being "strong enough" or "man enough" or "whatever enough" to go through or even consider reconciliation once an infidelity has occurred, and there are a handful of posters that seem to enjoy twisting that particular knife.

Not necessarily saying that your choice of language reflected such a view, but it seemed awfully close to it.

And, honestly, that's probably THE reason for a good portion of the heated back and forth that goes on here at CWI.


----------



## GusPolinski

TG341637 said:


> Do I push her so far as a polygraph? Those are probably expensive too. I guess the first question I have to figure out is, would the results even matter?


I wouldn't even mention a polygraph unless you're already enacted a very comprehensive way to gain access to her Google, Bing, or whatever searches, because you'll want to catch anything along the lines of "how to beat a polygraph".


----------



## Marc878

Make no mistake the chances of this working out maybe 50/50. An affair can destroy a marriage. Lies will destroy it. Your wife like just about every other cheater will lie, hide, deceive.

She probably is doing damage control and cannot comprehend what effects this is having on you.

Now is not the time for you to hide the truth either!!!!! Tell her what it's done to you emotionally, physically. She can't understand or comprehend what you feel. TELL HER!!!!! This is important! 

Men don't like to admit their hurt so they think everyone is good we'll just go on like it never happened. You will stew and boil and the marriage will end if you don't handle this right. 

Doesn't seem fair but your life is going to be what you make it. The Calvary isn't coming. It's all up to you. She can't/won't help you get through this then you have an important answer to what your future will be if you stay with her.


----------



## rubymoon

GusPolinski said:


> On many things, probably so.
> 
> What puts a burr in my saddle, so to speak, is any language aimed at shaming someone (especially BHs) for not being "strong enough" or "man enough" or "whatever enough" to go through or even consider reconciliation once an infidelity has occurred, and there are a handful of posters that seem to enjoy twisting that particular knife.


No, I'd find it very wrong, too. If one has a doubt or desire to explore reconciliation, I'd offer support. In many cases, I agree that divorce is the only way.


----------



## Marc878

I'm truly sorry you are here.


----------



## G.J.

TG341637 
Sent a private message to you

let me know if you didn't get it

Hope it helps


----------



## G.J.

If you decide to use that method use the poly as a threat for verification from the start as it all goes down the same night if you decide to follow through
Searches become a moot point after


----------



## NoChoice

OP,
Think about this for a moment. Do you want to spend the rest of your life with someone you trusted so little that you needed a machine to tell you if they were lying? And what if she fails, then you are done? I said to my wife on many occasions that lying does the liar no service. All it does is make you a liar on top of whatever other issues you have. The ultimate decision for you is can you trust your wife again? Is there anything she can do to make that a reality? If so she needs to do it and for however long it takes to restore your trust. If not, then I regret to tell you it is over and any further effort put into the M is futile.

Only you can answer the question and that may take some time. As you move forward you will begin to see if trust can return or if it is forever lost. In any event, without total remorse and contrition on her part and a willingness to do whatever it takes, it is impossible for it to return. Rebuilding trust is a monumental undertaking and not for the faint of heart. It requires self deprivation, sacrifice and an iron clad resolve. Few are determined and motivated enough to persevere through it. Time will reveal if your wife has the sticktoitiveness to accomplish it. I wish you peace and good fortune as you travel this dark path.


----------



## Roselyn

Can your pride take your wife's infidelity? Woman here. A woman who does this to her husband is a laughing stock. She is fodder for conversation among decent circles. Can you walk to any party or any gathering and hold your head high, knowing that some of the guests in that party are present? Will it bother you when sympathetic or mocking looks are given your way?

Your wife is still not telling you the real story. She is full of half-truths. There was a poster here whose wife did a BJ on a male stripper in a bachelorette party. He could not take the public humiliation. He divorced.

As a married woman of 35 years (first time marriage for both of us) and a respectable member of our community, I could not take public humiliation. Your choice though.


----------



## RWB

TG,

Tough road for sure. I'm 6+ years down the same road with a my FWW. 

*Hear a truth*... rarely is the affair that's discovered, the 1st that happened. Your wife sort of confessed. Why? She was caught in the act by others and knew it would get back to you in short order. 

The affair my wife was caught in was a short lived 1 month EAPA with an old BF. They talked for a few weeks and ended up an out of town hotel for a day of sex. She was caught with email and text messages and could not deny any of it. 

On DD, she admitted to all of this. She knew I had read the emails. But, maintained (lied) she had never been unfaithful before in 30 years of marriage. But there's always a paper trail, all you have to do is look. In the end, she had been serial cheating off and on with multiple OM for 7 years.

*The Point*... I'm not saying your wife is a serial cheater, but she didn't just get the nerve (alcohol or not) to start an affair at this party. There is a slim chance this was her first or only indiscretion. It just doesn't happen that way. Don't ignore the obvious. 

If I have learned anything about being a BS and R concerning affairs...

*There's Always More.*


----------



## TG341637

Roselyn said:


> Can your pride take your wife's infidelity? Woman here. A woman who does this to her husband is a laughing stock. She is fodder for conversation among decent circles. Can you walk to any party or any gathering and hold your head high, knowing that some of the guests in that party are present? Will it bother you when sympathetic or mocking looks are given your way?
> 
> Your wife is still not telling you the real story. She is full of half-truths. There was a poster here whose wife did a BJ on a male stripper in a bachelorette party. He could not take the public humiliation. He divorced.
> 
> As a married woman of 35 years (first time marriage for both of us) and a respectable member of our community, I could not take public humiliation. Your choice though.


Well, the cheating is on her. Can her pride take it? I guess she'll find out.


NoChoice, you quote didn't show up, but no I wouldn't go so far as actually doing a polygraph. Although I do know they are not as easy to fool as most people think (and not as easy to false-fail as most people think). There's really no substitute for simply time to (re)build trust I guess.


----------



## TG341637

boltam said:


> Well, the staying is on you. People sometimes look down at a person that tolerates being cheated on. They think "how can a person stay with someone who disrespected them to such a degree?"
> 
> Maybe you don't care about what other people think.
> 
> But what about what YOU think?


No, I don't really care what most people think. Some of the most judgy people I know are near-immediate family so I've learned to just ignore it.

I'm still figuring out what I tihnk...


----------



## TG341637

Is it really so unbelievable that this hasn't happened before? Just wondering.

Also, my reference to the lengths of the two relationships was not in terms of a "time investment" but more that this one has lasted so long it's hard to remember NOT being with her (and in love).


----------



## Be smart

Sorry you are here.

First of all you need to know the truth. Your wife will never told you so you have to speak with people who were at the party. Maybe they have some photos or videos,you never know.
Also check her phone,e-mail,facebook.

Second-this is not her first Affair. She told in front of your "friends" that she is allowed to have sex with other man. 

Divorce her my friend. 

Next time when you meet a woman set some boundaries.


----------



## Roselyn

TG341637 said:


> Is it really so unbelievable that this hasn't happened before? Just wondering.
> 
> Also, my reference to the lengths of the two relationships was not in terms of a "time investment" but more that this one has lasted so long it's hard to remember NOT being with her (and in love).


I believe that this has happened before, you just didn't know. Patterns of behavior are predictable for humans.

Your first wife cheated before. Now this one, your second wife, also cheated. You set firmed boundaries on this second wife that if she cheats, you're finished. Well, she did and in a public way.

You have been cheated twice. What activities do you do with your wives that invite an open situation where infidelity will happened? You need to stop doing these activities, whereby you leave yourself open to this type of behavior. 

You need to see a psychologist. There is a pattern in your behavior in picking women as spouses who are without boundaries. You've been cheated twice. If third time happens, in the game of baseball, you are out!


----------



## TG341637

Be smart said:


> First of all you need to know the truth. Your wife will never told you so you have to speak with people who were at the party. Maybe they have some photos or videos,you never know.
> Also check her phone,e-mail,facebook.
> 
> Second-this is not her first Affair. She told in front of your "friends" that she is allowed to have sex with other man.


The truth about the night it happened? I think I have enough of the truth about that. I know they had sex, and it really doesn't matter to me if she does/doesn't remember that. Should it matter to me? Definitely don't think I need to see pictures or video!

Not sure how hard I can push the last point with her... I don't want to get abusive trying to get an answer, and (however likely or unlikely) this may actually have been the first time.


----------



## NoChoice

TG341637 said:


> No, I don't really care what most people think. Some of the most judgy people I know are near-immediate family so I've learned to just ignore it.
> 
> I'm still figuring out what I tihnk...


You will need time for this as well. Presently you do not know what to think or why. As you move on from this things will begin to clear and you will begin to see your way forward. It may involve R or it may involve D but it will become evident in time. Do not rush it, allow yourself time to feel your way forward.


----------



## Be smart

Trust me she does remember,she just keep hiding it from you,thinking to fool you.

The second point-it is your marriage and if you cant look over your wife facebook or phone then my friend you are in trouble.

She cheated more then you think,but it is your life,your decision.

Like Roselyn said,you need to see some therapist. Something is wrong with your thinking about boundaries. I could never send my wife or girfriend to a party with swingers or people who are in open marriage.


----------



## TG341637

Be smart said:


> Trust me she does remember,she just keep hiding it from you,thinking to fool you.
> 
> The second point-it is your marriage and if you cant look over your wife facebook or phone then my friend you are in trouble.
> 
> She cheated more then you think,but it is your life,your decision.
> 
> Like Roselyn said,you need to see some therapist. Something is wrong with your thinking about boundaries. I could never send my wife or girfriend to a party with swingers or people who are in open marriage.


Well if that's what she's trying, it hasn't worked.

I never said I couldn't look over her stuff. I know all her passwords and have for years. I even invented one of her passwords for her.

Everyone is really hanging up on the open marriage thing. It wasn't a swinger party, I don't even know if the people in open marriages were there, and it doesn't matter either way. The only reason I even mentioned it was for the context of why people might have believed her saying that.


----------



## G.J.

TG341637 said:


> The truth about the night it happened? I think I have enough of the truth about that. I know they had sex, and it really doesn't matter to me if she does/doesn't remember that. Should it matter to me? Definitely don't think I need to see pictures or video!
> 
> Not sure how hard I can push the last point with her... I don't want to get abusive trying to get an answer, and (however likely or unlikely) this may actually have been the first time.


The whole point is *SHE IS LIKELY LIEING* and any marriage is based on trust !!!!

Unless you get the truth you might as well file for D (divorce) *NOW*


----------



## WorkingOnMe

TG341637 said:


> The truth about the night it happened? I think I have enough of the truth about that. I know they had sex, and it really doesn't matter to me if she does/doesn't remember that. Should it matter to me? Definitely don't think I need to see pictures or video!
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure how hard I can push the last point with her... I don't want to get abusive trying to get an answer, and (however likely or unlikely) this may actually have been the first time.



What should matter is that she admits it. You know she knows. But she still tries to deny. For me that's a non starter. Couldn't even begin to reconcile without full disclosure.


----------



## G.J.

TG341637 said:


> Well if that's what she's trying, it hasn't worked.
> 
> I never said I couldn't look over her stuff. I know all her passwords and have for years. I even invented one of her passwords for her.
> 
> Everyone is really hanging up on the open marriage thing. It wasn't a swinger party, I don't even know if the people in open marriages were there, and it doesn't matter either way. The only reason I even mentioned it was for the context of why people might have believed her saying that.


The message I sent you also tells you how to get access to deleted FB messages and you know her passwords to FB and email so....have a gander might be worth it


----------



## TG341637

WorkingOnMe said:


> What should matter is that she admits it. You know she knows. But she still tries to deny. For me that's a non starter. Couldn't even begin to reconcile without full disclosure.


I see what you mean now, thanks.

Seeing her tonight after being away from home for a few days (previously scheduled).


----------



## Forest

I believe if her version of events was exactly how it went down, she would have probably not told you anything. She would have felt like she dodged a bullet, and kept her mouth shut. 

Another thing that I don't get. She says she was in a bathroom, then this tactical amnesia kicks in. She wakes up "a couple hours later"....When have you ever been to a party where two hours elapsed without a steady stream of alcohol induced runs to the bathroom. Its a constant thing.

Look at the broad picture about confessions. In general, a confession is offered as an attempt to control the situation, and mitigate the damage. Its like a "first offer" in a negotiation. You offer less than your whole hand, to try and get away with the least damage, money, exposure, etc.


----------



## TG341637

Forest said:


> I believe if her version of events was exactly how it went down, she would have probably not told you anything. She would have felt like she dodged a bullet, and kept her mouth shut.
> Look at the broad picture about confessions. In general, a confession is offered at a tempt to control the situation, and mitigate the damage. Its like a "first offer" in a negotiation. You offer less than your whole hand, to try and get away with the least damage, money, exposure, etc.


So just to clarify... the odds that a) this was the first time and b) it happened more or less as she described are both pretty low?


----------



## Forest

TG341637 said:


> So just to clarify... the odds that a) this was the first time and b) it happened more or less as she described are both pretty low?


Oh, I don't pretend to know whether or not this was the first time. I do know very well from experience, as do most of the people here, that the early conversations almost ALWAYS include attempts to minimize. Something will be left out, overlooked, glossed over. Later, you'll hear it was because she didn't want to hurt you.

Spend some time on boards like this, it is one of the most common tactics. "Trickle truth".

Good one, eh? They try to protect you (from their acts) with lies. Its a dirty, nasty business. One that I can't imagine how people we believed were caring, decent partners will stoop to.


----------



## GusPolinski

TG341637 said:


> Is it really so unbelievable that this hasn't happened before? Just wondering.
> 
> Also, my reference to the lengths of the two relationships was not in terms of a "time investment" but more that this one has lasted so long it's hard to remember NOT being with her (and in love).


The sheer audacity w/ which she chose to conduct herself at this party -- a party that you were initially supposed to attend, nonetheless -- makes it pretty unbelievable.


----------



## G.J.

TG341637 said:


> So just to clarify... the odds that a) this was the first time and b) it happened more or less as she described are both pretty low?


:surprise:


----------



## Be smart

Well my friend look it this way.

You were sick and you couldnt go to the party,but your wife decided she is going no matter what. (good wife will stay with you and spend halowen with you).

When she got there she told to your "friends" that she is allowed to have sex with another person. This is the game over for me and should be for you.

She spent the night with this guy and all of a sudden she cant remember anything. Come one man,you are smarter then that.

Now she keeps lying to you about the truth while working together on R.

Like I said before Divorce her.


----------



## Marc878

Living with the affair is one thing. Living with a liar is another.

Depends on you.

Some will swallow anything because they are affraid or weak.

This is your life too.


----------



## italianjob

TG341637 said:


> So just to clarify... the odds that a) this was the first time and b) it happened more or less as she described are both pretty low?


Her story is pretty unlikely, you don't believe it yourself for the part about the sex... and you are right. Unlikely stories sometimes turn out to be true, but the odds that they are true are really really low.

How likely do you think it might be that a grown woman, a mother and a wife, that never indulged in this kind of behavior, suddenly bangs a random dude in such a public way, not backing off even when friends try to tell her to stop?

I'd say highly unlikely, don't you think?

The way I see it there are only three possible explanations:

1 - This wasn't a one off, but it's her standard behavior when out on her own, only this time someone witnessed it and she needed to make a whitewash version for you. So it's not the first time.

2 - This wasn't a random dude, she's in an affair with that guy, someone saw her (probably not making out but actually doing the deed) and she tries to cover the affair as a ONS.

3 - There wasn't just booze at the party but pretty heavy drugs. She's into it but doesn't want to tell you.


----------



## bfree

Tg, the reason people are so strongly advising you to get the entire truth now is that we have seen on multiple occasions betrayed spouses that reconciled only to find out years later that there was more, much more, and that had they known the extent and frequency of the betrayal they would not have reconciled. These poor unfortunate people have had years stolen from them that they can never get back. And it turns out their marriages ended anyway because the betrayal ate away at the moral core of their relationship. Right now you have a opportunity, a limited opportunity, to get the entire truth and make an informed decision that will likely set you on a path for the rest of your life. None of us can truly say whether your wife has strayed before this time. Your description of her reaction and behavior makes it seem extremely likely that she knows exactly what happened that night. And the determination she demonstrated that evening strongly suggests that she isn't inexperienced with cheating. Bottom line is that she has to convince you that she's both telling the truth and worth staying with. Ultimately it's your decision and your life.


----------



## Lostinthought61

TG,

While i am not asking you to have her take a polygraph it wouldn't hurt in your discussion with her when she says to you that all she stated is the truth and you causally look at your photo and look up polygraph in front of her and say if you are telling me the entire truth then you won't mind taking a polygraph and then just look at the body language.....also when she is telling you everything again , look to see if she looks directly at you and not looking away to the left if she does that is an indication she is not truthful.


----------



## tpdallas

If she didn't have pants on, at the minimum he touched her vagina.


----------



## Mr Blunt

TG341637
Your marriage maybe able to be saved.
*
Drinking, open marriage friends, overnight parties, and pants off in the bathroom mean that your wife or maybe you also have a very poor idea about how to preserve a relationship.* With those allowed in your marriage it is no surprise that your wife dropped her panties. If you are going to try and save this marriage you and she had better be absolutely determined to change your ways of thinking so that you both do what has proven to maintain marriages.

What has happened is not going away this year or next no matter what you both do. You say that you still love her but that you are wondering if you will get the truth or can trust her. Here is an option for you to consider.

If she is really remorseful and wants to do something to help you then how about this. You tell her that you will get a legal divorce so that she can prove her commitment to help you.. What you have acquired in the marriage goes to you and what she has acquired goes to her; no sharing of retirement money or anything else. If she is really remorseful and wants to reconcile then you can set up an arrangement that you want.

You will probably never be convinced 100% what she did or what was behind all of her actions. You can get 90% + convinced if you watch her actions for several years after the divorce. If you both are really serious about each other and are determined to never cheat or everything else that you determine is detrimental to protecting your relationship then in the years to come you will be convinced to the tune of 90% + one way other. *Showing you with actions for one year does not prove much at all; you need many years of observation to see the truth.*

Your wife has committed one of the worst marriage busters of all time. From your posts it does not seem that you were some abusive husband. Even if you were an abusive husband she could have divorced you then she could get drunk with a bunch of uncommitted couples and drop her panties for some dude.

Your wife was honest and did tell you about her affair so that is one thing that she did right. *If this was her first time and she changes her friends, and thinking and actions, proves to you over many years that she totally committed to stop getting drunk and dropping her panties, and you take the right actions, then you probably have a good chance of saving the marriage. IMO*


----------



## Forest

TG341637 said:


> So just to clarify... the odds that a) this was the first time and b) it happened more or less as she described are both pretty low?


I just wanted to add a little tidbit.

From what you've read here, you probably get the idea that many of the respondents are jaded, closed-minded pessimists. That is probably accurate, but for sound reasons. We've been exposed, around the block, in the trenches, and all that.

It may seem that there is a detached and angry focus when it comes to your wife. That may be true, also.

I just don't want you to lose sight of the fact that these comments come from experience. It doesn't mean the posters don't empathize and feel for you. We actually do. We're you're miserable homies. Unfortunately, we've too often seen what typically happens when infidelity, adultery, cheating, whatever you choose to call it happens. 

We don't want to believe our spouse is capable of such behavior. Even more that that, we don't want to believe that someone as good and smart as us could be stupid enough to be hitched up with a spouse capable of sinking to such disgustingly low class behavior. Its effing shlt city, and it busts you up for life.

We'd all love it if you were the white whale, or black swan that is the exception to the rule. Its just that those are, you understand, white whales and black swans when it come to this crummy facet of life. You don't expect to run into one.


----------



## 6301

Ya know if it was me, I would tell her that you need time to get your head cleared and this can't be done with her there and tell her to take it someplace else until you can think properly. 

I don't know how you can think straight with her there in the same room with her going through all the motions of the good wife and you having mind movies going on in your head. 

 Let her know that she has to go because her actions right now of being the loving attentive wife is just as much the lie as her cheating.

Then I can only tell you to go with what your gut is telling you. It's very seldom wrong.


----------



## workindad

TG341637 said:


> The truth about the night it happened? I think I have enough of the truth about that. I know they had sex, and it really doesn't matter to me if she does/doesn't remember that. Should it matter to me? Definitely don't think I need to see pictures or video!
> 
> Not sure how hard I can push the last point with her... I don't want to get abusive trying to get an answer, and (however likely or unlikely) this may actually have been the first time.


I do not suggest being abusive.

However, getting the truth seems pretty important. If you let that slide, you are willingly rug sweeping and that will bite you in the arse.

If you want to R and rebuild trust... I'm no expert... but I think that honesty would be a must.

Good luck
WD


----------



## MJJEAN

I am a former WW. Long and painful story.

Anyways, from my experience, the other posters are right to suspect your wife has done this before. I know I didn't start publicly screwing around at parties until I was about 3 lovers in. And the guy I did it with was an old friend I'd been [email protected] off and on for a while.

Being willing to do it so openly, even after friends object, is a place I have been. And I'd have never gone there if I wasn't already very comfortable cheating.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Roselyn

MJJEAN said:


> I am a former WW. Long and painful story.
> 
> Anyways, from my experience, the other posters are right to suspect your wife has done this before. I know I didn't start publicly screwing around at parties until I was about 3 lovers in. And the guy I did it with was an old friend I'd been [email protected] off and on for a while.
> 
> Being willing to do it so openly, even after friends object, is a place I have been. And I'd have never gone there if I wasn't already very comfortable cheating.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


OP, pay attention to this post. Wake up! This is an image of your wife that you are starting to defend. You don't want to end up like Poida!


----------



## G.J.

MJJEAN said:


> I am a former WW. Long and painful story.
> 
> Anyways, from my experience, the other posters are right to suspect your wife has done this before. I know I didn't start publicly screwing around at parties until I was about 3 lovers in. And the guy I did it with was an old friend I'd been [email protected] off and on for a while.
> 
> Being willing to do it so openly, even after friends object, is a place I have been. And I'd have never gone there if I wasn't already very comfortable cheating.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Please consider options TG341637.........

Ask her in a normal talk and you will get nothing but lies if she's been doing this for a 
while and will be able to deceive easily

Consider what I sent you


----------



## TRy

TG341637 said:


> So just to clarify... the odds that a) this was the first time and b) it happened more or less as she described are both pretty low?


 The posters here are giving you advise based on their own experiences which are all amazingly similar to each other. Their experiences are also back by research data so the posters here know that what they experienced was not a one off, and that the one off would in fact be if their assumptions are wrong in a particular case. The fact is that if your wife had sex with that other man at that party, the odds are against you ever being able to prove it, or that she will admit to it. According to the MSNBC.com/iVillage survey, “If your partner is cheating, chances are, you have no idea” (60%), and that “vast majority of affairs never see the light of day” (70%). The study goes on to state that “Few cheaters — only 2 percent — were busted in the act. And even when confronted with a partner's suspicions, only 6 percent of both men and women confessed to having an affair.” Thus the fact that you knows as much as you do, puts you way ahead of most betrayed spouses. In the real world, you must act on what you already know and assume that she is lying when when she says that she does not remember if she had sex, even if you do not have proof of sex. Waiting for your spouse to be among the small 6% of cheaters that will admit to it, is a fools errand. I am deeply sorry that you are here. Know that it is not your fault. I wish you well in the hard journey ahead.


----------



## LosingHim

I am not trying to sway your line of thinking, but again, as I stated before, I have been the female cheater in a similar drunken situation. I told my husband for 3 years that when I cheated, I had only kissed a guy. I just revealed to him a month ago that more happened. I only told him I kissed the guy because 1) I thought I was saving his feelings 2) I pretty much knew he'd leave me if he found out the truth 3) I didn't want anyone else to find out what I did, I was ashamed 4) I was selfish and scared to lose him 5) I convoluted the story in my mind so much that I honestly believed if I acted like it never happened, it would go away. 

When and why did I finally tell my husband what I did? When he mentioned he wanted a separation. He told me he never had the guts to say it to me before and he finally worked up the nerve to tell me that he never fully bought my story that it was just a kiss. At the point I realized he deserved the truth. I hadn't been woman enough to tell him. I'd just been a scared, selfish *****. Telling him was the hardest thing Id ever done because I knew that it was probably going to destroy him. I wish I would've told him sooner because I ripped open a scab on a 3 year old wound. I led him to believe for 3 years that it was just a kiss. I showed him the last 3 years that his life was a lie, I took advantage of his love and affection for 3 years and I did NOTHING in those three years to better our marriage. I've been angry since I came open that he never asked me before, now I almost wish that he would've pushed for separation in the beginning to force my hand in telling him. No, that's not right or respectful, but I'm surely not perfect and obviously don't always do the right thing. 

I guess what I'm saying is, force her hand. She will continue to trickle truth you if she feels she's getting away with it. I DID THAT. I didn't really realize I was doing it, but I surely took advantage of the fact that he didn't leave me over "just a kiss". Hell, I convinced MYSELF it was just a kiss. 

Force her hand. Give her no option but to give you the truth.


----------



## Roselyn

LosingHim said:


> I am not trying to sway your line of thinking, but again, as I stated before, I have been the female cheater in a similar drunken situation. I told my husband for 3 years that when I cheated, I had only kissed a guy. I just revealed to him a month ago that more happened. I only told him I kissed the guy because 1) I thought I was saving his feelings 2) I pretty much knew he'd leave me if he found out the truth 3) I didn't want anyone else to find out what I did, I was ashamed 4) I was selfish and scared to lose him 5) I convoluted the story in my mind so much that I honestly believed if I acted like it never happened, it would go away.
> 
> When and why did I finally tell my husband what I did? When he mentioned he wanted a separation. He told me he never had the guts to say it to me before and he finally worked up the nerve to tell me that he never fully bought my story that it was just a kiss. At the point I realized he deserved the truth. I hadn't been woman enough to tell him. I'd just been a scared, selfish *****. Telling him was the hardest thing Id ever done because I knew that it was probably going to destroy him. I wish I would've told him sooner because I ripped open a scab on a 3 year old wound. I led him to believe for 3 years that it was just a kiss. I showed him the last 3 years that his life was a lie, I took advantage of his love and affection for 3 years and I did NOTHING in those three years to better our marriage. I've been angry since I came open that he never asked me before, now I almost wish that he would've pushed for separation in the beginning to force my hand in telling him. No, that's not right or respectful, but I'm surely not perfect and obviously don't always do the right thing.
> 
> I guess what I'm saying is, force her hand. She will continue to trickle truth you if she feels she's getting away with it. I DID THAT. I didn't really realize I was doing it, but I surely took advantage of the fact that he didn't leave me over "just a kiss". Hell, I convinced MYSELF it was just a kiss.
> 
> Force her hand. Give her no option but to give you the truth.


OP, here is a second post. "Losing Him" is candid in sharing her story. She's similiar to your wife. Read and digest what these women have to say. You have been forwarned. Wake up man!


----------



## Marduk

@LosingHim, what a profound post. 

Thank you for that honesty.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SoulStorm

LosingHim said:


> I am not trying to sway your line of thinking, but again, as I stated before, I have been the female cheater in a similar drunken situation. I told my husband for 3 years that when I cheated, I had only kissed a guy. I just revealed to him a month ago that more happened. I only told him I kissed the guy because 1) I thought I was saving his feelings 2) I pretty much knew he'd leave me if he found out the truth 3) I didn't want anyone else to find out what I did, I was ashamed 4) I was selfish and scared to lose him 5) I convoluted the story in my mind so much that I honestly believed if I acted like it never happened, it would go away.
> 
> When and why did I finally tell my husband what I did? When he mentioned he wanted a separation. He told me he never had the guts to say it to me before and he finally worked up the nerve to tell me that he never fully bought my story that it was just a kiss. At the point I realized he deserved the truth. I hadn't been woman enough to tell him. I'd just been a scared, selfish *****. Telling him was the hardest thing Id ever done because I knew that it was probably going to destroy him. I wish I would've told him sooner because I ripped open a scab on a 3 year old wound. I led him to believe for 3 years that it was just a kiss. I showed him the last 3 years that his life was a lie, I took advantage of his love and affection for 3 years and I did NOTHING in those three years to better our marriage.* I've been angry since I came open that he never asked me before, now I almost wish that he would've pushed for separation in the beginning to force my hand in telling him. *No, that's not right or respectful, but I'm surely not perfect and obviously don't always do the right thing.
> 
> I guess what I'm saying is, force her hand. She will continue to trickle truth you if she feels she's getting away with it. I DID THAT. I didn't really realize I was doing it, but I surely took advantage of the fact that he didn't leave me over "just a kiss". Hell, I convinced MYSELF it was just a kiss.
> 
> Force her hand. Give her no option but to give you the truth.


Good advice LosingHim. I just think that he took you at your word that it was just a kiss, even though he doubted you, he wanted to believe you. You can't be angry at him for only going on the information that you gave him. It was not his job to force your hand..it was your job to be honest with him


----------



## LosingHim

SoulStorm, you are 100% correct. It is MY fault and mine only that I didn't tell him. When I say I've been angry because he didn't force my hand, jvd been angry with him and myself. Myself for being such a selfish pansy that I couldn't own up to it, and him for accepting my word and "allowing" me to lie. That's kind of hard to explain. The blame is not his, but I have anger or maybe just frustrations that he let it go so easily instead of really pushing me to come clean. I guess what I meant in telling the OP this is, don't back down. Push until you know you have the truth. If not, he's in a way allowing her to tell a half truth. Even if it's unknowingly or blindly.


----------



## Kolie123

TG341637 said:


> Forest said:
> 
> 
> 
> I believe if her version of events was exactly how it went down, she would have probably not told you anything. She would have felt like she dodged a bullet, and kept her mouth shut.
> Look at the broad picture about confessions. In general, a confession is offered at a tempt to control the situation, and mitigate the damage. Its like a "first offer" in a negotiation. You offer less than your whole hand, to try and get away with the least damage, money, exposure, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> So just to clarify... the odds that a) this was the first time and b) it happened more or less as she described are both pretty low?
Click to expand...

I think it's possible it could be the first time! Maybe I'm a little more optimistic than most? Do I thinks it's possible she blacked out? Yes but if I did that and woke up with no pants on I'm pretty sure I could put 2 and 2 together and not use the "I don't remember excuse"


----------



## Marc878

LosingHim,

Great insight and a very good post.

I hope things work out for you and your husband.

Most think things like this will just go away. They don't


----------



## LosingHim

This could very well have been a first time, one time thing. Mine was. 15 minutes, start to finish, of talking, the guy telling me smooth things, pressuring me, saying "come on, no one will find out" and my drunken mind thinking "if I just do this, it'll be over, I can leave" to 1 minute into the sexual act realizing I was making a horrible mistake, stopping and asking him to take me home. My cheating did not end in orgasm for either party and I did not allow him to touch me. I am NOT excusing what I did, I am giving details so that what I did is clear. I never did anything before, and I have not done anything since. 

What I have discovered recently is I have very loose boundaries. I take sexual advances as a joke. I allow people to say things to me that could be flirtatious and brush them off with laughing. I allow people to say inappropriate things to me and I don't tell my husband what is said. I put myself out there in a very approachable way and then wonder why so many people talk to me. In short, I'm an idiot who also happens to be a doormat who doesn't think about how this makes my husband feel. In not trying to hurt other peoples feelings, I've hurt his several times. I'm currently working on changing that. 

Is your wife the same? Does she have boundary issues? Have their been blurred lines in your marriage? In my case, my husband knew I had loose boundaries and it angered him but he never said anything to me so I took it as he knew these things and they didn't bother him so they must be ok. In short, I was a fool. I'm not saying my cheating was ok. It's not. Neither is your wife's. Could she have possibly been pushing boundaries all along that she didn't realize and maybe you didn't either?


----------



## Marc878

LosingHim said:


> This could very well have been a first time, one time thing. Mine was. 15 minutes, start to finish, of talking, the guy telling me smooth things, pressuring me, saying "come on, no one will find out" and my drunken mind thinking "if I just do this, it'll be over, I can leave" to 1 minute into the sexual act realizing I was making a horrible mistake, stopping and asking him to take me home. My cheating did not end in orgasm for either party and I did not allow him to touch me. I am NOT excusing what I did, I am giving details so that what I did is clear. I never did anything before, and I have not done anything since.
> 
> What I have discovered recently is I have very loose boundaries. I take sexual advances as a joke. I allow people to say things to me that could be flirtatious and brush them off with laughing. I allow people to say inappropriate things to me and I don't tell my husband what is said. I put myself out there in a very approachable way and then wonder why so many people talk to me. In short, I'm an idiot who also happens to be a doormat who doesn't think about how this makes my husband feel. In not trying to hurt other peoples feelings, I've hurt his several times. I'm currently working on changing that.
> 
> Is your wife the same? Does she have boundary issues? Have their been blurred lines in your marriage? In my case, my husband knew I had loose boundaries and it angered him but he never said anything to me so I took it as he knew these things and they didn't bother him so they must be ok. In short, I was a fool. I'm not saying my cheating was ok. It's not. Neither is your wife's. Could she have possibly been pushing boundaries all along that she didn't realize and maybe you didn't either?


Uhhhh, don't sell yourself to short, an idiot does not reflect on their past issues like you are and try to fix themselves. I see someone who's fairly smart and trying to better herself.


----------



## Vulcan2013

TT is a very natural and expected thing. Admit a little bit, "enough" in the cheater's mind, and you get the benefits of confession without fully owning or admitting the extent of your wrongs. Unfortunately, this leaves a lot of buried land mines, and each new revelation compounds the damage. 

I suspect there is more due to the brazenness of the behavior. It is unlikely she would act like this if it was her first time. If she wants to set your mind at ease, a polygraph would help. I know this site has mixed feelings about them. I took one so, as our counselor said, "she could know how big the monster is". She couldn't take my word, I'd lied for years. 

And confessing to what your spouse already knows or is likely to know isn't confession, it's damage control.


----------



## Jasel

Its also possible the only reason she confessed is because there were more than enough people who they both know who saw what she was doing and she figured it would get back to OP eventually. Sometimes cheaters will confess when they figure they're most likely going to be exposed sooner or later. Not always out of guilt or a desire to do the right thing by their WS.


----------



## TG341637

We had a long talk last night. I didn't really learn much that is new, other than a little bit of the motivation (she was flattered by the attention).

She still insists they did not go through with it. She says she "can tell" .. and if she thought she had, she would have been at the clinic the next day getting a morning-after pill.

She says no contact before or since with the guy. And also that she hasn't talked about this with anyone, friends or family, for advice.

I slipped a bit and gave her an opening (talking about how rough October was for both of us) that could have allowed her to blame me and she came right out with "it's not your fault at all" and she says she'll do anything I want her to do, to prove that I can trust her from now on.


----------



## Marc878

You had better set some ground rules for the both of you. If she's telling the truth you may have dodged a bullet here. Once an affair is consummated it's a whole different ballgame.

What's your plan?


----------



## TG341637

Marc878 said:


> You had better set some ground rules for the both of you. If she's telling the truth you may have dodged a bullet here. Once an affair is consummated it's a whole different ballgame.
> 
> What's your plan?


Step 1; see what the counsellor says tomorrow morning.
Step 2; there will definitely be conditions/boundary changes if we stay together


----------



## Marc878

Be wary of any counsellor. They are not gods.

You're intelligent so you know there are good and bad. Just like anything else. This is your life and you have the right to change if you feel this one is not what you need.

This is a perfect time to make your life/marriage a great one if you choose but either way your life is what you are going to make it. No one is going to do it for you.

I hope this works out well for you and your wife.


----------



## Divinely Favored

Start with a poly. You need to know who was there, who he was, has this happened before(kissing,bj,sex)She was telling the ones trying to stop her she was allowed!!!!

Whether she screwed him or not..maybe just a little 69 action, .this attitude and utter disregard for you or your marriage does not bode well for the future.


----------



## JohnA

Your nuclear option combine with TRy's post 

If she was passed out and intercourse occurred, it is boarder line rape. She woke up without her pants, what happened? Time to shake that tree with the host and other guests. She will do anything, tell to confront them with you, and she takes the lead in questioning. The both of you confront the posm with the question did he rape her ! No, how did the her pants get off? Tell him you want answers or the police with be asking them. 

Her panties and pants, have they been cleaned? If not keep them as is, if so don't reveal. Put then in a plastic bag and use as a club. One thing to deny, another to do so while looking at soiled evidence,

In addition to shakeing loose the events of the night, it will burn off toxic friends.

Ladies, your thoughts?


----------



## G.J.

TG341637 said:


> We had a long talk last night. I didn't really learn much that is new, other than a little bit of the motivation (she was flattered by the attention).
> 
> *Honey did you do anything with that guy
> no*
> 
> She still insists they did not go through with it. She says she "can tell" .. and if she thought she had, she would have been at the clinic the next day getting a morning-after pill.
> 
> *Honey are you sure nothing happened
> yep*
> 
> She says no contact before or since with the guy. And also that she hasn't talked about this with anyone, friends or family, for advice.
> *
> Honey have you seen him since
> No*
> 
> I slipped a bit and gave her an opening (talking about how rough October was for both of us) that could have allowed her to blame me and she came right out with "it's not your fault at all" and she says she'll do anything I want her to do, to prove that I can trust her from now on.


I'm amazed nothing more was revealed.........

Now where's that brush and dustpan gone.......


----------



## TG341637

G.J. said:


> I'm amazed nothing more was revealed.........
> 
> Now where's that brush and dustpan gone.......


Wow you sure know how to condense a 4 hour conversation don't you.


----------



## G.J.

TG341637 said:


> Wow you sure know how to condense a 4 hour conversation don't you.


I also predicted the outcome if you had a nice chat...............

Read posts from other posters on here when they have a nice chat and see what is learnt by the BS (Betrayed Spouse)

Had you attempted a tried method you may/would have learnt a lot more ref the message I sent you


----------



## TG341637

G.J. said:


> I also predicted the outcome if you had a nice chat...............
> 
> Read posts from other posters on here when they have a nice chat and see what is learnt by the BS (Betrayed Spouse)
> 
> Had you attempted a tried method you may/would have learnt a lot more ref the message I sent you


Call me soft if you want but I would never treat anyone short of a murderer the way you suggest via pm. Which is likely why you make the suggestions in private?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## G.J.

TG341637 said:


> Call me soft if you want but I would never treat anyone short of a murderer the way you suggest via pm. Which is likely why you make the suggestions in private?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You decide what you want to do

All people on here that have gone through similer events can only advise you how they handled a situation and the out come

You decided to handle it your way and have the out come which many would have predicted ...based on similer situations


----------



## G.J.

Oh and what your wife did may have killed your marriage


----------



## jsmart

Old timers like G.J are giving you years of wisdom. We've read your responses so many times. We've all seen how this turns out for you. Having spent years on this and similar boards, we see how these things play out like clockwork. 

To you and many new BHs, the suggestions sound too strong or harsh but what you don't understand is that WWs only respond to strength. Weakness, niceness, rug sweeping does the opposite of what BHs think. You think by being nice and logical she'll come around and be remorseful for hurting such a loving husband. What really happens, is that it solidifies in their mind that you were not worth being loyal to and that she's justified in giving it up to POS because I need a strong man. To her, douche is strong because, he's willing to risk public sex with me. "What a "bad boy." Comes home to boring baby sitter husband and think ' Gosh, what am I doing with him."

You're facing a wife who obviously has been fvcking this guy for a while and it finally came out. A wife and mother doesn't bang a guy in such a public way if she's not already comfortable with doing him. I'd bet huge money that this is a PA that finally got exposed, which is why she came out with this preemptive story. You need to see that. The majority of posters on this board are pro marriage and support R in mild cases, if all is out and spouse is truly broken and remorseful. Your situation doesn't yet meet that.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> *Originally Posted by TG341637*
> “she says she'll do anything I want her to do, to prove that I can trust her from now on.”


Those are great words coming from a betrayer! *Now you need to make her prove her words with actions!* If you do not make her prove her words with actions then you are either weak or foolish or both. I gave you an option that I have seen work but so far you have not responded to that option. If you think that option is not for you then just say so and I will not bother with posting to you anymore. Here is my option for you to consider reprinted below:





> Here is an option for you to consider.
> 
> If she is really remorseful and wants to do something to help you then how about this. *You tell her that you will get a legal divorce so that she can prove her commitment to help you.* What you have acquired in the marriage goes to you and what she has acquired goes to her; no sharing of retirement money or anything else. If she is really remorseful and wants to reconcile then you can set up an arrangement that you want.
> 
> You will probably never be convinced 100% what she did or what was behind all of her actions. You can get 90% + convinced if you watch her actions for several years after the divorce. If you both are really serious about each other and are determined to never cheat or everything else that you determine is detrimental to protecting your relationship then* in the years to come you will be convinced to the tune of 90% + one way other.* Showing you with actions for one year does not prove much at all; you need many years of observation to see the truth.


You say that you still love her but that you are wondering if you will get the truth or can trust her. There is no way that you are going to trust her unless you put her to a strong test. *You may get help with a counselor and others but until you put her through a strong test for a long time you will never get to 90% + trust.*


----------



## TG341637

She's agreed to questioning other people at the party as to what they did or didn't see - and to see if she's left anything out for any reason.


----------



## larry.gray

JohnA said:


> If she was passed out and intercourse occurred, it is boarder line rape.


Borderline?!!! 

No, not borderline at all! It is rape and nothing but rape.


----------



## Mr Blunt

> *By OP*
> She's agreed to questioning other people at the party as to what they did or didn't see - and to see if she's left anything out for any reason


.

Your wife made out with a “random guy” told her friends that tried to stop her that “she was allowed:” drank so much that she passed out, woke up in the bathroom with no pants on, and you are convinced that she had sex with some man. WOW!

*So far you have not taken any strong action so that she can prove her words of “she will do anything to gain your trust”* What you do is allow her to question “…other people at the party as to what they did or did not see” Yet you tell us in your previous post that “I think I have enough of the truth about that.”

If you are scared or too weak at this point to take strong action to help you get some truth and trust then that is your choice but just know that what you are allowing your wife to do at this time is not going to be the answer and actions that will address what you have been talking about.


----------



## italianjob

I still think you're being gaslighted...

The sheer determination in wanting to do this guy that comes out from the first part of her story is just not compatible with the rest.

So one element or the other, or both, are false, or at least not completley true.

I understand it's quite hard for you to find a way to know what actually happened, but you need to come up with ways that not necessarily include her partecipation if you want to get near the truth.

One element you might want to investigate is the OM identity. Chances are that the key is there.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

TG341637 said:


> She's agreed to questioning other people at the party as to what they did or didn't see - and to see if she's left anything out for any reason.


Questioning them... In your presence?

If not, how are you going to know if they tell her that she did "ABC" and then she tells you it was "XYZ"?

She was found passed out in the bathroom, nude from the waist down, right?

If only had she woken up in the back seat of a car, or a motel room, you wouldn't be dealing with all this. There would have been no witnesses, so no reason for her to start damage control by telling you anything about it. Regardless of what she can, or can't remember.

When she told you the she "_did something stupid, and please don't leave me._", there's no need to question the other party goers about if there was any sexual contact. She made out with him, got half naked. It went PA. She may have not been conscious by the time it was over, but she was when they started. 

Even if one of her friends tells her that they walked in the bathroom and saw her legs were up like goal posts and the OM was kicking a field goal, she's not going to tell you.

If she's offered to ask her friends about what happened, you can bet that she either already has contacted a few by now, or they'll be getting a call when you're not around.

This is most likely going to end up just being more damage control.


----------



## azteca1986

TG341637 said:


> She's agreed to questioning other people at the party as to what they did or didn't see - and to see if she's left anything out for any reason.


And this is her idea of "doing anything" to keep her marriage? Apparently you're easily pleased.

This is a mis-direction. It's a waste of energy. Deal with what you do know - whatever she did, *she considered it relationship ending*. So, keep the focus there. Do you really think that her friends are going to say something that they think could cause a divorce? It'll a lot of "I was too drunk", "I was the other side of the room", "I can't remember now". It'll be inconclusive. 

Focus instead on her. In your position I would want to know the identity of the OM (Other Man). That, her friends can help with (don't let her call alone). Was it an ex? Or someone she's hooked up with in the past? You need to know the identity of the OM, if you're to feel safe in your marriage going forward.

I'd want to know how pre-meditated this was. Generally when our partners are sick, we'll stay in. 

Also, the fact she's offered to never drink again is a good thing. But... the implication is there that alcohol was a key factor - do you really want to stay married to a woman who can only stay faithful if she's sober? 

The unusual part of this story is the public nature of her betrayal. She was *sober enough* to come up with a story when her friends tried to stop her. She _really wanted_ to go through with this and to hell with the consequences. What's her explanation? Is she defensive when you ask her how many times she's down this before? Does she want an open marriage? 

And finally don't let her make you do all the running here. What are her solutions to keeping her marriage. That can tell you a lot too. See, this is a bad situation:

Currently your wife = Alone+alcohol = makes out with "stranger" in public and wakes up without pants on. 

If her attitude is that it's no big deal, then you have a problem on your hands. If her attitude is "I really need to find out what's wrong with me", then there's some reason for hope.

Good luck mate.


----------



## TG341637

italianjob said:


> One element you might want to investigate is the OM identity. Chances are that the key is there.


I will definitely find out what I can there... 



GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Questioning them... In your presence?


Yes



azteca1986 said:


> And this is her idea of "doing anything" to keep her marriage? Apparently you're easily pleased.
> 
> This is a mis-direction. It's a waste of energy. Deal with what you do know - whatever she did, *she considered it relationship ending*. So, keep the focus there. Do you really think that her friends are going to say something that they think could cause a divorce? It'll a lot of "I was too drunk", "I was the other side of the room", "I can't remember now". It'll be inconclusive.
> 
> Focus instead on her. In your position I would want to know the identity of the OM (Other Man). That, her friends can help with (don't let her call alone). Was it an ex? Or someone she's hooked up with in the past? You need to know the identity of the OM, if you're to feel safe in your marriage going forward.
> 
> I'd want to know how pre-meditated this was. Generally when our partners are sick, we'll stay in.
> 
> Also, the fact she's offered to never drink again is a good thing. But... the implication is there that alcohol was a key factor - do you really want to stay married to a woman who can only stay faithful if she's sober?
> 
> The unusual part of this story is the public nature of her betrayal. She was *sober enough* to come up with a story when her friends tried to stop her. She _really wanted_ to go through with this and to hell with the consequences. What's her explanation? Is she defensive when you ask her how many times she's down this before? Does she want an open marriage?
> 
> And finally don't let her make you do all the running here. What are her solutions to keeping her marriage. That can tell you a lot too. See, this is a bad situation:
> 
> Currently your wife = Alone+alcohol = makes out with "stranger" in public and wakes up without pants on.
> 
> If her attitude is that it's no big deal, then you have a problem on your hands. If her attitude is "I really need to find out what's wrong with me", then there's some reason for hope.
> 
> Good luck mate.


It's not the only thing, just the most recent thing she agreed to do. And partly for her benefit, she (says she) doesn't fully understand what and why she did.

I can see why the full identity of the other guy is important though. I know the first name only at this point, so how am I to know if there's ever any future contact, right?


----------



## Hicks

You should ask to see her phone as soon as possible.
You will learn alot from the phone. No warning just " I want to see it now".

1. Does she resist?
2. Does she take "5 minutes" privately to unlock it?
3. Is it locked?
4. Are her texts on there? If so read them all.
5. Are her texts deleted? (Log onto your phone account in advance to see what numbers she's been texting and match those to her contacts).

If you have a good marriage, it's hard to understand why you need marital counseling. She needs counseling to determine why she would cheat on a good husband and risk her familiy in order to get her kicks at a party.


----------



## sungazer

OP, you know that you have two options: stay and work on forgiveness and trust, or leave the marriage. In EITHER CASE, you need to try and save decent relationship with your wife for the sake of your child. Please be careful listening to advises on here. Most of them are not targeted to help, but to seek bloody revenge. And even if your wife fully deserves all these tourtures (I personally disagree, but it's beside the point), you do not want to turn your relationship into a bloody war for the sake of your child (regardless of whether you stay together or divorce).


----------



## sungazer

jsmart said:


> Having spent years on this and similar boards...



:slap:


----------



## TG341637

sungazer said:


> OP, you know that you have two options: stay and work on forgiveness and trust, or leave the marriage. In EITHER CASE, you need to try and save decent relationship with your wife for the sake of your child. Please be careful listening to advises on here. Most of them are not targeted to help, but to seek bloody revenge. And even if your wife fully deserves all these tourtures (I personally disagree, but it's beside the point), you do not want to turn your relationship into a bloody war for the sake of your child (regardless of whether you stay together or divorce).


Thanks I definitely agree. I went through the whole bloody war when my parents split up. Definitely don't want to go there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TRy

TG341637 said:


> She's agreed to questioning other people at the party as to what they did or didn't see - and to see if she's left anything out for any reason.


 Does that include giving giving you all of their names including the name of the other man? 

Her knowing that you will be calling these other people will allow her to prep them such that you will never get the truth from them. That is why in post number 41 of this thread I suggested that "Without telling her that you will be contacting anyone, tell her that you need to know the names of everyone that knows so that you can avoid having to look any of them in the face. Pay attention to who she left out, because she may not tell you the name of the person that she felt was most likely to tell you what happened if she did not (which is why she told you). Get the name of the other man, and do not buy into the random dude BS. Get these names from her now. Then secretly put together a call list so that you can rapid call all of them, including the other man, to hear what happened. You want to rapid call because once you call one of them, you will be in a race with your wife in calling them as she tries to shut this down. Without telling them that you will be calling others, tell each of them not to call your wife to tell her that you called, but tell them that if asked by your wife they can tell her about the call as you do not want to put them on the spot. This may slow down them calling your wife as they think this through. This may be the only chance that you have in finding out what happened." If it is not to late, you should tell her that you want the list (including the name of the other man) so that you know who knows, but that you see no need to call them since they will just tell you what she tells them to tell you. Then call them later on your own.


----------



## convert

TG, most likely she has already talked to the other people at the party to help with the "minimizing" of what happened.

it might even show up on her phone. maybe after you recover the deleted texts.


----------



## G.J.

Have you checked out FB yet if she uses it ?

Its one of the top Affair enablers that are used

Ref d/l deleted messages so they can be sent from archive to her email address...so you would need both passwords
Only thing it won't send is if she manually deleted her deletes but if she's not computer savvy she wouldn't know

'Converts' post ref minimizing is well worth looking into and taking note of when you ask
You should be able to tell if they have ready made out answers and have been prept


----------



## Marduk

Here's the thing. You seem to be a pretty smart, rational, and straightforward guy.

#1 talking to other people from the party with her there and her knowing that you're going to means that she has already contacted them and got their stories straight. So it will be more smokescreen. Is there ANYONE from the party that you can trust? If so, reach out to that person BY YOURSELF. Don't tell your wife until after the conversation.

#2 start writing everything down that she says happened. Make a timeline. Note discrepancies... because there will be discrepancies.

#3 she says she "knows" nothing happened but "can't remember what happened?" This is illogical. The dude could have used a rubber and there would be no mess and no need for a morning after pill. So, no. Does not compute.

#4 you've had TWO postings from women that have cheated who referenced this kind of behaviour... and that they had been cheating for a while before they got this brazen about it. So it's UNLIKELY that this is her first time cheating on you. What is more likely is that she knew someone would ask about your "open" marriage and you'd find out, so she told you the smallest version of the story that she thought you might believe and would mean that you stay with her.

What all that adds up to is a pretty tough reconciliation, which seems to be what you want.

What I would do is call a few people that you trust the most that were there, get their stories, write down your timeline, and tell her she has one chance to be honest because you know everything -- and not just honest about this guy, but the others, too.

You MIGHT get MORE honesty this way, even though it still likely won't be 100%.

As for why she did it -- she liked the attention and was horny and turned on by this guy. So she ****ed him. It's what happens.


----------



## F-102

FWIW, I'd be willing to bet that the OM was either the BF , or husband of, someone that you two know.


----------



## Marduk

Oh, and I'd dump every backup that you can get your hands on - phone, Facebook, email, browser history, everything. 

Don't tell her first. 

Back everything up somewhere safe, then go through it. 

I know of two cheaters personally that this was the only way the truth came out - and they both trickle truthed before and after. 

Just less after.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

Until she tells you the guys name I wouldn't waste my time with her but that is just me.


----------



## tom67

You said most of those at the party are HER friends so calling them in my opinion would be useless.


----------



## Marduk

tom67 said:


> You said most of those at the party are HER friends so calling them in my opinion would be useless.


Not necessarily.

I only know one or two "open" couples, and not well, but the times we've spoken about it they have both stressed that EVERYTHING is open and honest and above board. And mutually consentual.

They seemed to both really get pissed off about people cheating, because it's contrary to the philosophy their lifestyle, and gives it a bad rap.

You never know unless you try.

But I agree -- I'd demand to know his name, what he did to get her to kiss him, what she did with him, everything.

It sounds like she doesn't want to be transparent. Which would worry me, even if I didn't want to know the details -- she should be forthcoming about them if asked anyway.


----------



## G.J.

tom67 said:


> You said most of those at the party are HER friends so calling them in my opinion would be useless.


I agree BUT hes passed up a lot of advice so far....anything is better than nothing


----------



## happyman64

You have received a lot of advice so far TG.

I would like to reinforce some points with you.

1. Your wife is still lying to you by omission. 

We have seen many relationships get gutted not by the act of infidelity itself but from the lies that perpetuate after the act of infidelity. It is called "trickle truth". 

The best way to stop trickle truth is yo tell your wife you cannot move forward with the marriage until she stops with the half truths. Give her a comfort zone where she can tell you anything without the fear of separation or divorce ( at this time) coming into the equation.

It is ok to tell her that you love her, that you want to fix the marriage and keep your family together but until the lies stop and the truth is told you are stepping back from the marriage.

2. Contact the person who had the party. Ask for the truth. Preface the conversation with the " my wife came clean about the sex act at the party" and I would like to know who the OM is, how drunk were they and who tried to get her to stop the sex act.

Those people will be your allies.

3. The choice to reconcile or divorce is yours. And only yours. Your wife knew the risk of cheating on you. 

Get the truth. No matter what you have to do to get it. Hopefully she wises up and gives it to you. Use a var in her car to hear her conversations with others. It will give you the inside track which IMO you really need.

4. Make it very clear to your wife you and your D will be just fine with her or without her. Then show her just what her life without you in it will look like. Be more independent. Do things with your D without her mother. 

I think she will get the idea that you can move on without her and wise up quickly.

HM


----------



## tom67

happyman64 said:


> You have received a lot of advice so far TG.
> 
> I would like to reinforce some points with you.
> 
> 1. Your wife is still lying to you by omission.
> 
> We have seen many relationships get gutted not by the act of infidelity itself but from the lies that perpetuate after the act of infidelity. It is called "trickle truth".
> 
> The best way to stop trickle truth is yo tell your wife you cannot move forward with the marriage until she stops with the half truths. Give her a comfort zone where she can tell you anything without the fear of separation or divorce ( at this time) coming into the equation.
> 
> It is ok to tell her that you love her, that you want to fix the marriage and keep your family together but until the lies stop and the truth is told you are stepping back from the marriage.
> 
> 2. Contact the person who had the party. Ask for the truth. Preface the conversation with the " my wife came clean about the sex act at the party" and I would like to know who the OM is, how drunk were they and who tried to get her to stop the sex act.
> 
> Those people will be your allies.
> 
> 3. The choice to reconcile or divorce is yours. And only yours. Your wife knew the risk of cheating on you.
> 
> Get the truth. No matter what you have to do to get it. Hopefully she wises up and gives it to you. Use a var in her car to hear her conversations with others. It will give you the inside track which IMO you really need.
> 
> 4. Make it very clear to your wife you and your D will be just fine with her or without her. Then show her just what her life without you in it will look like. Be more independent. Do things with your D without her mother.
> 
> I think she will get the idea that you can move on without her and wise up quickly.
> 
> HM


This^^^
Put a VAR in the car today.


----------



## alte Dame

The reason that the people here are in unison in their opinions is not that they are bitter and/or hopelessly jaded.

Rather, it is because infidelity is like any other human behavior. We're all members of the same species and all exhibit similar behaviors. You may think that your WW is unique, but that is a biological impossibility. We all behave within a band of possibles & your WW is no different from the rest of us.

Right now she is dancing as fast as she can to try to ensure that you don't leave her. She will trickle truth for years, maybe until her or your death, if she thinks it will stop you from leaving. This is how people behave. This is what they do.

On the BS side, people just like you will eventually drive themselves nuts with recriminations for all the wasted time, sometimes decades, with spouses who were lying, spouses who told themselves they lied to save the feelings of the betrayed. Essentially, though, these were lies to give the WS what he/she wanted, which was both the cheating and the marriage.

This is clearly your choice, but if you and your wife are like the rest of the human world, 1) she is still lying to you, and 2) you will deeply regret not having pushed for the truth as the years go on. (And the years move quickly. Before you know it, you will have a lifetime with this and you will mourn what you could have had - also part of the human script.)


----------



## Marc878

The key here is to satisfy to yourself you have the full truth. Without that it will eat you up long term. Now is the time to get that if you can. While its fresh.

I'd leave no stone uncovered. Recover all her deleted texts and phone calls before and after the event. It's not that difficult.


----------



## workindad

Get a car in place fast. This is easy and cheap. 


Just speaking from my own personal experience with this crap. My xww lied her arse off, swore up and down, said it must be me that had a problem. Guess what I did have a problem. I had a liar for a wife. 

When I presented her with proof she got really pissed. 

Actual admission from her which included another affair partner didn't come about until well after the divorce when she wanted to try to fix things with me. 

What I'm saying is that her actions do not support the "story" you are getting from her. Many cheaters are skilled liars and will stick to the script unless you force their hand. 

Your wife didn't decide to try cheating for the first time by making out with some guy in front of people who know you. Even if she like the attention that still doesn't make sense. 

from my experience, cheaters are exceptional liars and they tell lies that betrayed spouses want to believe 


Car 
Key logger
Polygraph are all your options now

Calling her friends to find out. Extremely unreliable at best.


----------



## workindad

Car should be VAR in above post


----------



## workindad

Also at the very least, she knows his name. And as such. So should you.


----------



## TDSC60

I haven't posted on this thread but your statement about "babysitting each other" caught my eye.

I can tell you this from personal experience. I learned early in my marriage that my wife cannot handle alcohol. Once she starts, she cannot stop. She was very naive about other peoples intentions and she would not recognize a man hitting on her. She would say he is just being friendly. I won't go into detail, but twice during the first year of our marriage she let alcohol get her into situations that could have been very different if I had not been close by.

I knew she had a problem. Was it intentional - no. Could it have lead to me divorcing her - yes.

I dealt with it like this;

1. She can go on girls night out with friends - but not to a bar or a club.
2. If she wants to go to any event where alcohol may be available - I go with or if I cannot go neither does she.
3. If she cheats - I am gone - don't really care why she did it - I am gone.

That was our marriage after year one when the rules were agreed to. 

Two kids and 40 years latter we are still together and happy just the two of us.


----------



## Dyokemm

tom67 said:


> You said most of those at the party are HER friends so calling them in my opinion would be useless.


Not necessarily.

From her story, she WAS called out by several of her friends for what was going on, but brushed it off saying she was allowed to do it.....basically implying that they had an open M which apparently passed scrutiny because some of the other couples in the social group do have that type of M.

Once they are informed of the real truth, they are very likely to help OP with the identity of the POSOM and anything they witnessed.


----------



## tom67

Dyokemm said:


> Not necessarily.
> 
> From her story, she WAS called out by several of her friends for what was going on, but brushed it off saying she was allowed to do it.....basically implying that they had an open M which apparently passed scrutiny because some of the other couples in the social group do have that type of M.
> 
> Once they are informed of the real truth, they are very likely to help OP with the identity of the POSOM and anything they witnessed.


I hope someone does give him the whole story so he can make an informed decision.


----------



## LongWalk

Re-read HappyMan's post.

Also, it seems that your wife did this for the sexual thrill, rather than a rejection of you. That may be unacceptable to you. Still, she was not emotionally involved.

The question is why did she allow the impulse to sweep over her judgment?


----------



## RAYMOND

The Middleman said:


> I hate to say this because it's not constructive advice for you, but this is the reason why my wife and I have never gone out socially without each other. It can only lead to trouble. I'm sorry for the situation you find yourself in.


I agree. Going to a swinger club can be tantamount to approval. Don't play with fire if you don't want to get burnt.


----------

