# One "Modern Mom's" Opinion of a Child Assuming the Father's Last Name



## Miss Taken

Personally, I preferred to go the traditional route and give my sons their father's last name. I am happy with that decision they are his children as well as mine after all. 

I don't have anything against a woman keeping her maiden name in marriage, a man taking a woman's last name or even children having their mother's last name - especially in the cases of rape or where the dad truly is a deadbeat and abandons the children. What other people decide for their families is none of my business. 

However, I could not disagree more with this woman and her "article", what do you all think?

My Baby is NOT Getting My Husband's Last Name

Honestly, I find her view of men/fatherhood very disheartening and sexist, as opposed to the beacon of female empowerment I assume this article was meant to be. That's me though.


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## norajane

I didn't agree with everything she said in the article, but I didn't think it was abhorrent, either. She was pregnant, _they weren't married_, so I actually would expect her child would have the mother's last name and not the father's.

What did you find offensive about the article?

I think it makes all kinds of sense to give a child the mother's surname. It came out of her body. I also think it makes sense to give a child the father's surname if mother has also taken it when they married. If she hasn't, then it's up for grabs and worth a discussion, not automatic assumptions.

I think that's the point of the article - why do we still make the assumption that it's "right" or "better" or "automatic" that a child be given dad's last name?


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## Almostrecovered

at least she spelled surname correctly


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## Mr. Nail

Well, that was weird. So it is wrong to just assume that the child gets the fathers surname, but it is just peachy to assume that in the event of a divorce all the children will stay with the mother. The second assumption bothers me a lot more than the first. Both assumptions are unwarranted. 

O K to wander down the path a bit further, the choice of a surname is a relatively new concept. The general idea was that if the local village had 3 Johns then "to avoid confusion" we should call John the miller John Miller and John the blacksmith John Smith and John the wagon maker John Cartwright. Now with blended families we have children with different mixes of parentage living in the same family and the school teacher will not know that Jane Miller is a step sister to Jake Jones. And so on, confusion reigns. In fact the only argument I can find for following the Tradition of everyone in the family taking the same surname is "to avoid confusion". So if We assume that the family will likely split and recombine several times why not give the kid whatever surname fits him best, IE Jacob Red, or John Oxbreaker. 

As a wrap up let me throw in my personal experience. My last name has 11 letters. It doesn't fit on a check. It doesn't fit on government forms. You have to spell it out for everyone and telemarketers can't pronounce it. My Wife's Maiden name has 5 letters and can be spelled by a telemarketer in India without help. So when we approached marriage I suggested that we take her surname as the family name. Well that was a very short conversation. My wife is a practical woman, but this was one step too far. Based on two things she refused my idea. One she didn't really get along well with her Dad and was looking forward to getting rid of his name. She doesn't use her maiden name as a middle name now. Her second reason was that she had spent the whole engagement dreaming of having my name and was not about to give that dream up. I do wonder if we should have just chosen a new "family name" for our new family But that was 27 years ago and not in 2014 when tradition is out.

Side note: how about middle names for daughters? in or out?

MN


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## EleGirl

Traditionally children take their father's last name because when a women married a man, she literally joined his family. In most places the woman moved into the home of his parents. 

Today I don't think it matters much whose last name a child has. I do think it's a good thing when everyone in a family has the same last name. It's less confusing.

That said, I have always used my maiden name professionally and my married name socially and everywhere else. It worked out fine.

My children have their fathers' last name.


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## Anon Pink

For continuity's sake, husband and wife need to pick a name their family will be. His name or her name...doesn't make any difference so long and they make it easily known to one and all they are a unit.

But in the case of an unmarried woman giving birth, it never made sense to me why she should give her child the father's last name. If the father and mother aren't a unit together by marriage, the child technically belongs to the mother and not the father.

So...put a ring on it!


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## kokonatsu

in the article, she said that they were engaged when her daughter was born, so it's not like he hadn't put a ring on it and they weren't intending to get married, so why should he get the kid's name? 

I think it's good (depending on the level of quality of man you got there) to give the child the father's name.. the mother carries the child through pregnancy and breastfeeds and does the lion's share of caring for the child (usually), so what bond does the father have? not as close as the mother's is (usually), so why not give him something extra that could bond the father and child together? 

btw.. i'm not yet a parent, so my opinions here are based on my observations of other families, not personal experience.


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## richie33

She shouldn't be upset when the man demands a paternity test done.


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## Mr. Nail

Richie, that thought also crossed my mind. If it is so important that My name doesn't get honored, perhaps there is a reason it shouldn't. 

The part of the article about honor was a bit offensive as well. You got the feeling that the author's default attitude about men did not include respect or honor. The concept that the family was complete with mom and kid, but husband was optional. 

Unbalanced, not a solid foundation for family.

MN


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## Miss Taken

norajane said:


> She was pregnant, _they weren't married_, so I actually would expect her child would have the mother's last name and not the father's.





Anon Pink said:


> But in the case of an unmarried woman giving birth, it never made sense to me why she should give her child the father's last name. If the father and mother aren't a unit together by marriage, the child technically belongs to the mother and not the father.
> 
> So...put a ring on it!


I think I'd agree more if he was an absentee father. In this article, the mother did eventually get married to the father so I am assuming it was a relationship heading for marriage or that they considered to be permanent regardless.

Of course people have a right to do as they please. Although I fully admit being partial to children having their father's names. I was not married to my sons' father. I still wanted them to have their father's last name and so they do. 



Anon Pink said:


> For continuity's sake, husband and wife need to pick a name their family will be. His name or her name...doesn't make any difference so long and they make it easily known to one and all they are a unit.


My last name differs from my spouse/sons. I have never even once had my maternity questioned for the sake of having a different surname as my children. I do imagine this could differ when it comes to men having different names as their children.



norajane said:


> What did you find offensive about the article?


What I found offensive is how she so casually admits to throwing her daughter's last name in her now husband's face. Yelling, "I should never have given her your last name!" Now that they're married. And how she tells him that he is a horrible father...seemingly on a whim during arguments. 

I suppose because of that, I felt the overall tone of the article sounded like women/mothers are only important or most important when it comes to child-rearing. 

I disagree with that and think good fathers are just as important as the mothers. I don't hold myself in higher regard when it comes to parenting our kids than I do my spouse. 


norajane said:


> I think it makes all kinds of sense to give a child the mother's surname. It came out of her body.


I understand this viewpoint but don't share it. Having carried/birthed two kids myself, I know how hard that is but I think what happens in the next 18 - 20 years after the pregnancy and birth is the most important. 


Mr. Nail said:


> Side note: how about middle names for daughters? in or out?
> 
> MN


I say in... then again, I am biased. Both of my sons have two middle names with my last name (it's a very masculine one and common man's first name) as one of their middle names. I know it's a bit tacky that they share a middle name but that mattered not to me.

As an aside, my mother was not yet married when my sister was born...that had little to do with it though. My mother admittedly did that out of spite vs. it being important to her that her maiden name be carried forward. 

My sister has our mother's maiden name. I have my father's surname... we were not half-siblings but constantly got asked if we were because of it. Not that there is anything wrong with being half-siblings but I didn't enjoy being asked all the time when we were not. My sister wished she shared my/our father's last name as she felt it was important to her identity to recognize who her father was.


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## Mr. Nail

Some things just keep kicking around my mind. I know that we cannot address the author of the "article" directly. (Probably wouldn't be a constructive discussion.) But I want to ask her Why her Dad's name is so much better than her husband's name? After all they are both men. Then in the comments section there was this woman with a hyphenated name that totaled 17 letters and a hyphen. Does she buy custom checks that are 12" long? And, she chose this voluntarily, in part because her husbands name was too boring.

OK back to my experience. I know a family that all the kids have mom's maiden name as a middle name. Miss Taken thinks this is tacky, but it seems like a reasonable compromise. My sisters didn't have middle names because Dad figured they would get married and use their maiden name as middle name. My wife rebelled at that idea and insisted I give my daughters middle names but relented when our last Daughter was born and the first and last names totaled 18 letters. Of course that didn't stop me from giving our son an 11 letter middle name. 

Wild speculation: using names to commemorate the pregnancy. Now if we had used this my kids last names would have been "12 hours of labor", "I puked every morning for 3 months", "5 weeks early" and " you will be born before the end of the year and we have to pay 2 deductibles"

One last rhetorical question. Why is the article entitled "my baby is not getting my husband's last name", when in fact the baby does have the husband's last name?


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## kokonatsu

giving the kids family names could also help find a solution with this.. on my father's side, there are at least three male names I could give my kids (and would love to, if mr. will agree to it) 

i wouldn't give my kids my maiden name as their middle name, but i have thought about giving my daughters (because i hate the boys names for this) names that are similar to my last name.. just have the first syllable the same.. i don't want to share my name here, so i just have to hope you can understand


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## frusdil

I find the authors whole attitude towards men and fathers offensive. 

A child is a product of both the mother AND the father - at the very least, the child should have both their last names if an agreement can't be reached. 

And what about if the father wants to still be a family with his kids after divorce? Why is it all about her?

She needs to get over herself.


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## Personal

For us our kids have my surname while my wife retains her maiden name.

On occasion I sometimes receive correspondence or am referred to as my wife's surname while she is sometimes referred to as my surname.

Since such instances seldom matter legally we aren't fussed by it at all and seldom feel compelled to rush to correct it especially when it is in passing.

Incidentally my wife's mother also retains her maiden name as is the marital tradition for women in Italy where my wife's parents comes from.


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## omega

I live in a country where, in order to get married, both spouses sign a contract stating what the children's last name will be (it has to be the same for all children, and it has to be either the mother's last name, the father's, or hyphenated). My husband and I decided to write down his last name even though we don't want to have children, for the sake of simplicity, but in fact I do not think that should be automatic. My mother did not change her last name when she married my father and they gave me both last names, but unless I want to end up like a Spanish aristocrat, at some point the hyphenating must stop. When Miss Smith-Jones marries Mr. Johnson-Davis, and their child Miss Smith-Jones-Johnson-Davis marries ... and so on. My parents hyphenated because they didn't have a more elegant solution, but it is a very SHORT TERM solution (one generation only).

Perhaps they should alternate last names for each child or something. Or flip a coin.


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## Youngster

Another sexist, spoiled, entitled woman wanting the best of everything.....

I want the expensive engagement ring.
I want the big wedding.
I want the white dress, it's MY day.
I want to keep my last name.
I want MY children to have MY name.
I don't want tradition unless it works to MY benefit.

My wife wanted to keep her last name. I told her she could so long as she gave me the ring back. Guess what happened? Yeah, she kept the ring!

A funny story from last week;
There's a sexist woman at my work, the other day we were talking about the upcoming election. She was talking about how she was going to support all the female candidates regardless of their stand on issues or party affiliation. 

She asked me who I was voting for......I told her I was only supporting male candidates this year since i didn't feel any of the women were qualified. Wow, you should have seen her get fired up, I couldn't help but laugh, made my whole week!


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## SimplyAmorous

I felt the entire article is absolutely *pitiful*.. ...but ya know.. I am one who would be HAPPY / proud and only feel it is right and GOOD to take the name of the man I married.. that our sons carry on his last name... it's an honor ....

Before I came to TAM, I never even met a woman who didn't ... and was surprised how some felt on this..there has been other threads... 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/184561-changing-your-last-name-marriage.html ............http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/2506-do-wives-still-take-their-husbands-last-names.html

But then , I am Mrs Traditional in many ways..and mourn that this is looked upon with such disdain by more & more women of today. 

Here is some of the things this women felt.. in this article.. to quote :



> *It’s old school and annoying: my baby will be getting my name. Period.*





> *Chances are, the mom will be doing way more in terms of raising the child (i.e staying at home on maternity leave, taking the baby to all her pediatrician appointments, taking care of her when she’s sick, picking out daycares and schools, the list goes on) *


 If she stays home and thinks she does MORE than the father for this child.. sorry I just wouldn't agree with that way of thinking at all.. what his financial support is nothing? Is she a princess... but then again.. in the beginning of the article, she got pregnant while not being married.. which started all of this... feeling he is just an "almost husband" so why should the baby get his name.



> *At the time, I figured we’d likely be together forever and we would get married and then I’d probably take his name (although that’s a whole other discussion all together). BUT I will tell you, there were several times I regretted it, i.e. when we had one of the biggest fights of our lives and I yelled “OMG I can’t believe I gave her your last name, you are worst father EVER, she should have gotten MY name.*


 so she caved, gave her daughter his last name anyway & whined about it , regretting it ever since. She is lashing out over this broken relationship 

Sounds to me like another couple who jumped to bang each other when they basically had nothing in common...probably neither respecting each other.. sure wasn't born out of mutual love & understanding, caring for each other.. and who suffers.. the KID....so her view on this was.. * "Never give the baby the dad's last name cause chances are, your relationship will suck donkey and you'll want out anyway.. '' .*




> *No matter what’s considered “traditional,” I think things like this should be openly discussed — it’s 2014, the modern woman has a different place in the world. We are making things happen for ourselves, we have different types of families now — ones that are blended, ones where the woman is the head of the household and those where the woman’s name should be honored, not the man’s*.


 she has a stick up her a$$ about anything Traditional...this attitude seems to be growing... the whole article was based on the argument ...a divorce is LIKELY to happen so don't put yourself in this position, women have power today, we are equals and we don't need YOU ! 

Would any man in his right mind want to touch a woman like this.. putting aside the last name question, even ? And we wonder why men don't want to get married anymore. 

Oh these type articles are popping up all over the place .. this one suggests that if the man wants this, expects it.. he is a freaking woman hater.. Men Who Insist You Change Your Name Make Terrible Husbands  " ...who recoil in horror at the idea of a man consensually adopting his wife's name have some issues *with misogyny?*" Kills me how frivolos this word gets thrown around by women today.. 

My husband would be a misogynist then.... it's coming to the point, I would say I PREFER those type of men when I see so many stupid articles like this , with such attitude of disrespect to men and their traditional roles..


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## Hicks

As usual, the adult is only thinking about themself.

As a mother, it's important to give a child a family and a father. Name sharing promotes the unity of the family and improves the bond that the child thrives on.

Treating marriage and the father's role in raising a child as unimportant may be good for women, but it's not good for children.


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## Runs like Dog

Someone's been watching too much Gilmore Girls.


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## TiggyBlue

I don't disagree with everything she said but I think she wrote about it in a very childish way (plus the child ended up with only her husbands last name anyway).


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## Anonymous07

Ok, so I didn't read the article, but wanted to put in a reason why someone may value her own last name more than her husband's last name. I did choose to take my husband's last name just as a fyi, but sometimes feel bad about doing so. My dad's last name is rare and may "die out" since none of my uncle's had children of their own and in my own family, one brother is gay(no kids) and my other brother is unsure if he wants children. I'm the only one with a family. I really like my dad's Italian last name and hope my brother will have a family to pass along the family name because I find it to be a beautiful last name. It's not something against tradition, just a different view point. 

I have nothing against those who choose to go against tradition. I'm actually glad people do so to an extent. I'm glad my husband and I are not super traditional. I'm glad my husband is a hands on dad and glad he helps around the house instead of just being a financial provider. I'm glad he supported me earning my degree and supports me working outside of the home. I'm glad he was open to me keeping my last name and said he would support me either way. A 'traditional' man would not be like that. He is an amazing man. Sometimes it is a good thing to go away from certain traditions.


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## Miss Taken

Like I said before, I have no problem with people going the non-traditional route when it comes to taking the last name. I took more offense at this woman's attitude than anything.

SA, totally agree with you about the maternity leave/SAHM standpoint. If he wasn't going to work, I doubt her maternity benefits would have allowed her to stay at home. She doesn't seem to appreciate her husband or his role as a father at all. I find it quite sad. Of course, he could be an assh0le but I saw nothing to that effect in the article. I think she's just entitled with a bad attitude.

Anonymous07: Those reasons make perfect sense to me. I too would be a bit sad to see the end of a family name.


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## Runs like Dog

I suppose you could hyphenate your name when you marry, like the actor Jim True-Frost


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## Anonymous07

Miss Taken said:


> Like I said before, I have no problem with people going the non-traditional route when it comes to taking the last name. I took more offense at this woman's attitude than anything.
> 
> SA, totally agree with you about the maternity leave/SAHM standpoint. If he wasn't going to work, I doubt her maternity benefits would have allowed her to stay at home. She doesn't seem to appreciate her husband or his role as a father at all. I find it quite sad. Of course, he could be an assh0le but I saw nothing to that effect in the article. I think she's just entitled with a bad attitude.
> 
> Anonymous07: Those reasons make perfect sense to me. I too would be a bit sad to see the end of a family name.


I think she was just venting and I don't blame her for it. The way SAHMs are viewed and treated is tough, as it's a difficult job with little to no recognition, no pay. As a SAHM myself, I've been told I am wasting my time(not using my degree) and asked "what do you do all day?", as if I am a lazy, pointless parent. The way women in general are viewed is still poor, even in today's day and age. Men are more valued than women. If you have ever seen the movie "It's a Girl", you can see a lot of that issue. I recommend watching it(it's on Netflix). Even in the United States(and other non-3rd world countries), boys are valued more than girls, which is sad. 

I honestly think she was smart to want to give her first born her last name, as they were not married yet. Even if they were planning to get married, things can fall through. My niece has her "dad's" last name, but he is no longer in the picture. They were also "planning" to get married, but he abandoned them. My niece says she sometimes feels out of place because she wants the same last name as her mom. 

Also, the man getting mad over the name issue would be a turn off to me. Just because he is a "man", does not mean he has the power to choose the last name without her input. They are both parents and both should choose the name(first AND last). Statistically speaking, women do more childcare then men do even when both parents work full time, so she is correct there. That doesn't mean dads are or should not be involved(they should!), just stating what is realistic. 

I like her 'ending' quote: "No matter what’s considered “traditional,” I think things like this should be openly discussed." which is what her main point is all about, or at least what I got from it. Both parents need to talk about what they think is best for their child. A man does not get automatic rights just because he is a man. A woman doesn't get automatic rights either just for carrying and birthing the child. Both parents should get a say.


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## Miss Taken

I guess I have a different take... for some reason I do prefer (for myself) the more traditional route. Though truly don't critique or judge what others do. Having not been in your shoes Anon, I still could see that as a good reason to step away from the traditional and pass on the maiden name.

You are right, she could just be venting. Still, unless he is a terrible father, the throwing that in his face during arguments bit didn't sit well with me. Perhaps I am more sensitive but if my spouse told me I was a horrible mother to our kids I would be very hurt. I imagine a man may feel similarly.

I am also a SAHM and have seen the judgment towards SAHM's. That said, I have been a working mom and student mom and was judged by some SAHM's in doing both. So the judgment swings both sides. You can't win if you are looking for approval or reassurance from everyone. Someone is going to measure you or compare in a way that proves your inadequacy no matter which path you take. (Using the proverbial "you" here.) So knowing that, I just can't even take sides with one direction or the other when it comes to the plights of working vs. Sahm's.

My reasons I suppose, just as anybody's are subjective. I was not brought up with my bio father. Still, I share his last name. I would not change that. Despite his absence, it IS part of who I am and my identity, where I came from etc. I feel I would feel like part of me and my truth was erased if it weren't the case. Probably even more so since we were estranged when I was young. 

I also was not legally married when I had either of my children. Still their father is by and large a part of who they are. He is integral in their lives and a very hands on father. Our marital status has never been a factor in his ability to parent and parent well, our children or made him any less of a dad to them. To me his fatherhood/our relationship statuses... it's a separate issue. I don't fully empathise or understand why this is so relevant for others because it was never a factor for me? It's biology... whether he is my husband or boyfriend it was his "lucky" sperm that reached my egg(s). Married, common-law, divorced... not going to change that. 

Anyway, all of that said I am not trying to argue or change minds. Just sharing what I feel about it. I do respect your opinions.


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## Youngster

I think most people don't have a problem with traditional/non-traditional arrangements. The problem is when a spouse "cherry picks" the best of both for their own benefit.


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## Anonymous07

Miss Taken said:


> You are right, she could just be venting. Still, unless he is a terrible father, the throwing that in his face during arguments bit didn't sit well with me. Perhaps I am more sensitive but if my spouse told me I was a horrible mother to our kids I would be very hurt. I imagine a man may feel similarly.


When I read "my ‘almost-husband’ said “of course she’s getting my name, what are you talking about?”, I saw that as controlling behavior. He thought his name was a must without taking her feelings into account. That is disrespectful to his wife. He gets his way because why? He's a man? That would not go over well in my household. We talk about all issues regarding our child and both of us get a say. I will admit she handled the fight poorly, throwing it in his face which was immature, but I don't see her husband as a "stand up citizen" either. They both have issues. 



Miss Taken said:


> I was not brought up with my bio father. Still, I share his last name. I would not change that. Despite his absence, it IS part of who I am and my identity, where I came from etc. I feel I would feel like part of me and my truth was erased if it weren't the case. Probably even more so since we were estranged when I was young.


I completely disagree here. There is a saying that I have seen around online that states: _"Anyone can be a father, but it takes a real man to be a dad."_ I like that quote because I find it to be true. In my opinion, you have a father who was a sperm donor and I don't think you "owe" him anything. He did barely anything more than just a random man on the street(doesn't take much to get a woman pregnant). He was never part of your life and just gave you some genes. Just because he is biologically your father does not mean you should "honor" him by sharing his last name. I don't think he deserves that. I would rather take my mom's last name who raised and loved me vs a father who didn't do anything but get my mom pregnant, if I were you. That is just my opinion. 



Miss Taken said:


> I also was not legally married when I had either of my children. Still their father is by and large a part of who they are. He is integral in their lives and a very hands on father. Our marital status has never been a factor in his ability to parent and parent well, our children or made him any less of a dad to them. To me his fatherhood/our relationship statuses... it's a separate issue. I don't fully empathise or understand why this is so relevant for others because it was never a factor for me? It's biology... whether he is my husband or boyfriend it was his "lucky" sperm that reached my egg(s). Married, common-law, divorced... not going to change that.
> 
> Anyway, all of that said I am not trying to argue or change minds. Just sharing what I feel about it. I do respect your opinions.


I guess that is where I am 'old fashion', in that I made sure I was married before bringing a child into the world. I've seen too many couples(never married) split up to have the children pulled in a tug-of-war between the exs. It's harder to split up(divorce) when married, so it 'safe guards' the children a little, in my opinion. If I had gotten pregnant prior to marriage, I would have given my son my last name(maiden name). Then, had we gotten married later on, I would switch both of our names over to my husband's last name.


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## Miss Taken

Anonymous07 said:


> When I read "my ‘almost-husband’ said “of course she’s getting my name, what are you talking about?”, I saw that as controlling behavior. He thought his name was a must without taking her feelings into account. That is disrespectful to his wife. He gets his way because why? He's a man? That would not go over well in my household. We talk about all issues regarding our child and both of us get a say. I will admit she handled the fight poorly, throwing it in his face which was immature, but I don't see her husband as a "stand up citizen" either. They both have issues.


I disagree about the husband's assumption being inherently controlling. I also think that when "control" is thrown around too freely it undermines what control in a relationship actually is. 

I think it's a reasonable assumption for a man to make until the issue is discussed. Today, most women when married and most children when born take the man's name. I don't see what he said much different from saying, "What do you mean you want to home school?" When most kids are educated outside of the home. Both are fair questions IMO.

Many who vociferously support a sway from this tradition still only do so in theory. You for example, have argued several points as to why taking a man's name is not a given but it's not something you followed in your own marriage... so, I don't think it unreasonable for him to assume his name would be passed down as it is what is typically done. 

I can't automatically agree with your assumption that he's not a stand-up citizen either. We have no information about what kind of man her husband is. The author said nothing to that effect in her article. You say they both have issues but none of his are shared by her in that article or elsewhere on the site that I know of. I looked. Her next and only article is about how she found herself paying more attention to her cellphone than her baby while on maternity leave... 

I DO agree that the husband should take his wife's feelings into consideration but this is a door that swings both ways. She too should take HIS feelings into consideration. Still, understanding, compassion, empathy do not automatically equate to compliance. He felt strongly one way, she felt strongly another. Can't say either are right or wrong to feel as they do. Instead, I think it'd have been better for them to hyphenate or choose an entirely different family name to pass on if they couldn't reach consensus, instead of one reluctantly relenting and resenting (alliteration much) the name choice.



> Miss Taken said:
> 
> 
> 
> Despite his absence, it IS part of who I am and my identity, where I came from etc. I feel I would feel like part of me and my truth was erased if it weren't the case. Probably even more so since we were estranged when I was young.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anonymous07 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I completely disagree here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Okay. :scratchhead:
Click to expand...




Anonymous07 said:


> There is a saying that I have seen around online that states: _"Anyone can be a father, but it takes a real man to be a dad."_ I like that quote because I find it to be true.


And I do agree with that statement on its face. However not everything is always so simple. My FIL was not allowed to be a "dad" to two of his children. The legal system, nor their mothers were on his side. He was a person non en grata to the courts and to those women. He fought tooth and nail for those kids but still was not allowed to be part of their lives for the most part. His other three, he definitely is a great "dad" to them. My own father had similar circumstances.




Anonymous07 said:


> In my opinion, you have a father who was a sperm donor and I don't think you "owe" him anything. He did barely anything more than just a random man on the street(doesn't take much to get a woman pregnant). He was never part of your life and just gave you some genes.


This is assuming way too much. 




Anonymous07 said:


> Just because he is biologically your father does not mean you should "honor" him by sharing his last name.


I don't feel being happy or proud of my last name is honouring my father or in the same vein, dishonouring my mother. It is acknowledging part of who I am, my roots, my ancestry, my genes, half of my ethnicity etc. My life is how I honoured my mother, my devotion and respect to her both in life and in death... not adopting a name. 



Anonymous07 said:


> I don't think he deserves that. I would rather take my mom's last name who raised and loved me vs a father who didn't do anything but get my mom pregnant, if I were you. That is just my opinion.


Again, this is assuming way too much about my life, my parents or their circumstances. Abandonment happens but parental alienation does as well. My mother was guilty of that. So my father was unable to parent me or raise me. Much like my father-in-law's experiences with his first two children. My mother, those women I believe had similar feelings towards women in divorce (my parents were married by the way), as the author of the article... that the woman gets the kids and dad is optional or immaterial. Apparently the courts did as well. I disagree with this, vehemently so. I did okay but in my FIL's case, they did not but would have been better off if he was allowed to parent them instead of just being a paycheck. 

There is a difference between being absent because you're a deadbeat or because you are held at the mercy of the mother and the court system. Divorce law hasn't always been what it is today. It's still not perfect but it is reforming...thankfully so.




Anonymous07 said:


> I guess that is where I am 'old fashion', in that I made sure I was married before bringing a child into the world.


Hmm.



Anonymous07 said:


> I've seen too many couples(never married) split up to have the children pulled in a tug-of-war between the exs.


This happens just as often with previously married and now divorced or divorcing couples. There are also many cases where this doesn't happen in non-married couples. We have since reconciled but even when separated, with no intent of coming back together we parented amicably. Having a good friend now in similar circumstances, I don't think this is as much of an anomaly as your statement seems to indicate. 



Anonymous07 said:


> It's harder to split up(divorce) when married, so it 'safe guards' the children a little, in my opinion.


Legally in some ways yes things are more complicated. In terms of custody and visitation, and spousal support many things are the same. Also it is in some ways more difficult to divide property if you're not legally married and don't have other legal agreements in place. 

I really don't think marriage safeguards children from being from broken homes. Plenty of dysfunctional or unhappy marriages to be seen. People stay together "for the kids" where really they're just forcing their kids to be unwitting participants or audiences to dysfunction... Can't really agree that'd be better for them. Plenty of marriages (About 40%) also end in divorce...many of those divorcing have children.

I think what safeguards children are the couple's individual and shared beliefs about parenting, family, and commitment. Family of origin issues make a difference, as do addiction or mental health issues. Religion or lack thereof, their social supports and pressures, mores, familial support and pressures etc. may also play some part depending on the people involved. as do their attitudes about providing safe, loving and stable homes and what that entails. Anyhow, not a comprehensive/all encompassing list. Suffice it to say there is a lot of diversity in attitudes there whether married or not that I think contribute more to safeguarding one's children than a walk down the aisle ever will. 



Anonymous07 said:


> If I had gotten pregnant prior to marriage, I would have given my son my last name(maiden name). Then, had we gotten married later on, I would switch both of our names over to my husband's last name.


Interesting. To be honest this sounds like a lot of work for nothing. Also potentially confusing for the child if they are older when the name change occurs.


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## john117

My girls have my last name - a rather lengthy one - versus the far easier last name mom has. Not a bad deal considering I largely raised them alone.


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## SimplyAmorous

I guess I just think it's sad this couple was sleeping together , making a baby before they even knew each other WELL ENOUGH to understand how each is geared.. what surprises lie ahead with some... 

My H was sitting near me days ago when I read about this thread to him.. he is NOT the controlling type in any way, shape or form... a complete Gentleman, but had I bulked or gave lip in this matter, he seriously would have reconsidered if I was the right woman for him.. he just thinks.. "what's the point of getting married at all....just shack up"...he said a little more but I didn't put it on here.. because some of the women would get all offended....though it doesn't offend me at all.. 

If I was a man, I'd feel the same.. I think when dating.... a couple needs to talk deeply about what type of lifestyle they want, if they are more geared towards Feminist ways.. by all means try to stay away from the more traditional type men..who feel this would be "a given".


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## Runs like Dog

Seems like a bizarre thing to obsess over but I guess that's why they call them obsessions.


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## Anonymous07

SimplyAmorous said:


> I guess I just think it's sad this couple was sleeping together , making a baby before they even knew each other WELL ENOUGH to understand how each is geared.. what surprises lie ahead with some...
> 
> My H was sitting near me days ago when I read about this thread to him.. he is NOT the controlling type in any way, shape or form... a complete Gentleman, but had I bulked or gave lip in this matter, he seriously would have reconsidered if I was the right woman for him.. he just thinks.. "what's the point of getting married at all....just shack up"...he said a little more but I didn't put it on here.. because some of the women would get all offended....though it doesn't offend me at all..
> 
> If I was a man, I'd feel the same.. I think when dating.... a couple needs to talk deeply about what type of lifestyle they want, if they are more geared towards Feminist ways.. by all means try to stay away from the more traditional type men..who feel this would be "a given".


This is very true, that couples really need to communicate about what they plan and expect for the future, but people can also change. I had a lot of ideas about how I would parent my son, but so much of that has changed once he was born and reality hit. We've just "rolled with the punches" so to speak, learning and changing how we thought we would do things as new circumstances arise. I originally thought we would circumcise our son, but after we talked about it and researched more, we decided to leave him intact. We thought I'd wean my son from breastfeeding at a year old, but here I am months later and still going. We thought we would use a stroller a lot, but it hasn't really been touched since we babywear instead. We thought we would start with purees for our son's first foods, but we ended up doing "baby led weaning". If my husband just stuck to his assumptions and was controlling in that his way was the way to go(and yes, I think it's controlling. He is not giving her options), we would definitely have problems. 

I think it's so important, as a person, to have an open mind. I would not really call myself a feminist, I just like to keep an open mind. I could not be with a man who just assumed or controlled how things went. If my husband sat there and said I had no say in our son's name, I would be very upset. We parent as a team, which means both of us get a say in everything. There should be no assumption that his way is the way to go and I don't assume that he will just follow what I think we should do. We talk about how we want to raise our son and we have both changed our minds on things. Assumptions only cause problems. 

My husband and I are "old fashion" in many ways, but we both keep an open mind. I could not be with a man who was any different, to just follow tradition blindly(the man's last name will be passed on). To me, that's a turn off. My husband is a great, hands on dad and I'm lucky to have him as my partner in life.


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