# Controlling Spouse...Need Advice



## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

I don’t know what else to do. My wife of 15 years acts as if I am her employee and she is the boss. I can’t be around her or talk to her through the phone/text without it turning into another chore for me to complete. She CONSTANTLY tells me to do things and it's getting very annoying. Sometimes she asks me to do things, like load or unload the dishwasher, while she is sitting on the couch on her phone. I can’t talk to her about how her constant “order giving” makes me feel because then she’ll turn it around on me to accuse me of never helping out. Whenever I ask her to do things she gives me an excuse as to why she can’t do it and I can. If I sit down and talk to her about this she’ll get very defensive and a fight will happen. Last night, I was busy doing something else when she called my name out three times in the span of 15 minutes to do random things around the house. I can’t take it anymore but I also don’t want to face the fight that is sure to happen. I need advice!


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Read ...

No More Mr. Nice Guy
Book by Robert A. Glover

And ....

The Rational Male -: Positive Masculinity
Book by Rollo Tomasi.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Your lacking internal strength maybe you can improve your beta life to a mix with alpha standard.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Well, do you do it? Don't do it.

Does she do her fair share around the house? Or is she just a lazy spoiled invalid that married someone to be her butler?

The other option is to get a large dog shock collar and shock her everytime she starts bossing you around to train her with negative reinforcement. The only downside is she will probably just take it off.


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

Of course I do it, otherwise it turns into her nagging me more.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

PianoMan1979 said:


> Of course I do it, otherwise it turns into her nagging me more.


Well, tell her to shut up and go away.


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## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

PianoMan1979 said:


> Of course I do it, otherwise it turns into her nagging me more.


That only keeps you stuck in the cycle. She's a big girl...if she needs something done while you're ALREADY doing something...she can handle it. Tell her so. She's not a lion and she's not going to eat you if you disagree or pass it along to her. If she can't handle that...that's on her, not you.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Grow a set and tell her to get off her phone and do it herself


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

I have and she still comes up with excuses why she can't do it.


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## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

PianoMan1979 said:


> I have and she still comes up with excuses why she can't do it.


If she can't or doesn't want to do them herself, huge bummer. They don't get done. She can *** and whine and complain and nag you all she wants. It shouldn't effect you the way you're letting it effect you. YOU are choosing to continue to do these things and she is seeing that. That is why she keeps nagging. She nags, you do whatever it is she wants. She has learned that, just like a child learns that when they whine, they get the treat/toy/what they want.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

You need to find your manhood and cut this crap right away.

This is exactly how women start to lose respect for their partner. When they see that you are a weak, and accomodating doormat that doesn't have the character and fortitude to stand up for himself. 

Next, they start to compare you with the alpha males that they encounter in their daily life, and before you know it, you've been replaced by a strong male and you are left wondering what the heck just happened. 

Please, read on these forums and you will read about men like you that just were hit the same and are trying to comprehend what just happened to them. It happens all the time.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

PianoMan1979 said:


> Of course I do it, otherwise it turns into her nagging me more.


See, this is what I don't understand. As an adult I've been in a 16 year marriage, another very long term relationship, not to mention having long term boyfriends as a very young woman.

I'll tell you this: if I had directed orders like this at ANY one of these men-- men spanning different ages, personalities, temperaments, backgrounds, and decades, they ALL would have looked at me like I was crazy, and said something along the lines of -- what's wrong with you, don't speak to me like that--- and it would have put a most definite chill on the relationship and the way they related to me.

It blows my mind that not only does your wife not suffer relational consequences for speaking to you like this, but that you ACTUALLY DO what she orders you to.


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

But then I'm the bad guy if I stand up to her and tell her to stop.


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

Tilted 1 said:


> Read ...
> 
> No More Mr. Nice Guy
> Book by Robert A. Glover
> ...


Thank you for the recommendations. I will check those out.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

PianoMan1979 said:


> I don’t know what else to do. My wife of 15 years acts as if I am her employee and she is the boss. I can’t be around her or talk to her through the phone/text without it turning into another chore for me to complete. She CONSTANTLY tells me to do things and it's getting very annoying. Sometimes she asks me to do things, like load or unload the dishwasher, while she is sitting on the couch on her phone. I can’t talk to her about how her constant “order giving” makes me feel because then she’ll turn it around on me to accuse me of never helping out. Whenever I ask her to do things she gives me an excuse as to why she can’t do it and I can. If I sit down and talk to her about this she’ll get very defensive and a fight will happen. Last night, I was busy doing something else when she called my name out three times in the span of 15 minutes to do random things around the house. I can’t take it anymore but I also don’t want to face the fight that is sure to happen. I need advice!


And you allow this because....?


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## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

PianoMan1979 said:


> But then I'm the bad guy if I stand up to her and tell her to stop.


No, you're not.

Quite simply...YOU see yourself as the bad guy.

Most people would see you as a pushover or doormat.


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## CoachP (Sep 26, 2016)

PianoMan1979 said:


> She CONSTANTLY tells me to do things and it's getting very annoying. Sometimes she asks me to do things, like load or unload the dishwasher, while she is sitting on the couch on her phone. I can’t talk to her about how her constant “order giving” makes me feel because then she’ll turn it around on me to accuse me of never helping out.


Wow, your wife must be a distant relative of my (not soon enough) STBXW, or at least drink from the same water supply! I have a similar post started in the "Mental Health" section because, in my wife's case it *really is* a mental health issue--she's a teenager trapped in a grown woman's body! She'll literally sit around moping that she "can't breath" around the house because it's so messy, but then just sit there on the phone--texting, Facebook, video chat with her girlfriends--while I'm in the kitchen slaving away over dishes and our preschool-aged daughter is leaving a path of destruction in the living room! Finally, she'll put down the phone and then *yell at our daughter* to clean up her toys and *blame me* for not making our daughter clean up--and, oh, _I_ need to help our daughter clean up because "she did it the last time"!

And, of course, you have enough TAM men saying "man up"! Man up and do _what_? Yellers don't back down when you yell back at them--they just get louder, angrier and use even nastier language--in my case *in front of our daughter* no less. Even worse, she'll *gaslight me*, grab my daughter and retreat upstairs, saying, "Daddy's angry again! He can clean it all up *himself*"!

It doesn't get any better; and at least be thankful your teenager-acting wife isn't using your young offspring as a shield!


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

snerg said:


> And you allow this because....?


She'll accuse me of not helping around the house which is not true. I guess I'm avoiding a huge fight.


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

When I told her to stop it last night it exploded into a fight which is still going on. I'm at work and she's at home not responding to any of my texts. This will happen for a day or so then she'll demand a gift from me. 




CoachP said:


> Wow, your wife must be a distant relative of my (not soon enough) STBXW, or at least drink from the same water supply! I have a similar post started in the "Mental Health" section because, in my wife's case it *really is* a mental health issue--she's a teenager trapped in a grown woman's body! She'll literally sit around moping that she "can't breath" around the house because it's so messy, but then just sit there on the phone--texting, Facebook, video chat with her girlfriends--while I'm in the kitchen slaving away over dishes and our preschool-aged daughter is leaving a path of destruction in the living room! Finally, she'll put down the phone and then *yell at our daughter* to clean up her toys and *blame me* for not making our daughter clean up--and, oh, _I_ need to help our daughter clean up because "she did it the last time"!
> 
> And, of course, you have enough TAM men saying "man up"! Man up and do _what_? Yellers don't back down when you yell back at them--they just get louder, angrier and use even nastier language--in my case *in front of our daughter* no less. Even worse, she'll *gaslight me*, grab my daughter and retreat upstairs, saying, "Daddy's angry again! He can clean it all up *himself*"!
> 
> It doesn't get any better; and at least be thankful your teenager-acting wife isn't using your young offspring as a shield!


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Well, do you do it? Don't do it.
> 
> Does she do her fair share around the house? Or is she just a lazy spoiled invalid that married someone to be her butler?
> 
> The other option is to get a large dog shock collar and shock her everytime she starts bossing you around to train her with negative reinforcement. The only downside is she will probably just take it off.


Lol, you bad😁


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Livvie said:


> See, this is what I don't understand. As an adult I've been in a 16 year marriage, another very long term relationship, not to mention having long term boyfriends as a very young woman.
> 
> I'll tell you this: if I had directed orders like this at ANY one of these men-- men spanning different ages, personalities, temperaments, backgrounds, and decades, they ALL would have looked at me like I was crazy, and said something along the lines of -- what's wrong with you, don't speak to me like that--- and it would have put a most definite chill on the relationship and the way they related to me.
> 
> It blows my mind that not only does your wife not suffer relational consequences for speaking to you like this, but that you ACTUALLY DO what she orders you to.


You are a strong woman, and you like a man to be a man.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

PianoMan1979 said:


> But then I'm the bad guy if I stand up to her and tell her to stop.


This is spewing weakness. And you done it so long you believe this crap. Get your balls from her purse, or is it just her veejay that makes you weak?


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

Tilted 1 said:


> This is spewing weakness. And you done it so long you believe this crap. Get your balls from her purse, or is it just her veejay that makes you weak?


These things usually happen around the kids. I avoid addressing it because she has a tendency to raise her voice and start a fight around them. So I guess it’s keeping the peace that’s preventing me from taking a stand.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Leave her.


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

​


Tilted 1 said:


> Leave her.


Easier said than done.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Next time she orders you to do something say "You are not my boss or my parents so you can't order me around. If you'd like my help with something please ask nicely." When she explodes on you just keep countering with "I'm asking you to treat me with respect, if you can't do that we have a serious problem in our marriage" Then walk away to let her think about it. 

And do not ever buy her another make up gift if you've done nothing wrong. Sweet Jesus. Women like that give all women a bad name. Good Lord.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

PianoMan1979 said:


> ​
> Easier said than done.


It's never easy but necessary.


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

notmyjamie said:


> Next time she orders you to do something say "You are not my boss or my parents so you can't order me around. If you'd like my help with something please ask nicely." When she explodes on you just keep countering with "I'm asking you to treat me with respect, if you can't do that we have a serious problem in our marriage" Then walk away to let her think about it.
> 
> And do not ever buy her another make up gift if you've done nothing wrong. Sweet Jesus. Women like that give all women a bad name. Good Lord.


Oh I can tell you that thought has crossed my mind, but if I said that to her it would definitely trigger her!


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

Tilted 1 said:


> It's never easy but necessary.


I have nowhere to go at this point. And I'm not going to leave my house and kids without consulting with an attorney first.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

hubbyintrubby said:


> If she can't or doesn't want to do them herself, huge bummer. They don't get done. She can ***** and whine and complain and nag you all she wants. It shouldn't effect you the way you're letting it effect you. YOU are choosing to continue to do these things and she is seeing that. That is why she keeps nagging. She nags, you do whatever it is she wants. She has learned that, just like a child learns that when they whine, they get the treat/toy/what they want.



^ THIS!!! Just tell her you are NOT going to do it -- no if, and's, or buts. If it's really important to her SHE will have to do it, and leave it at that.
If she starts yelling, nagging, etc. -- stay calm, and just repeat that "I'm NOT going to do it -- I have other things to do. If you feel this strongly about it, YOU do it" Just repeat.

Eventually, she will find out that her throwing a tantrum like a 3 year old no longer works.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

PianoMan1979 said:


> Oh I can tell you that thought has crossed my mind, but if I said that to her it would definitely trigger her!


So, let her trigger -- if she gets unreasonable, tell her "I am not your whipping post -- when you want to have a calm discussion about this, we can continue" and then LEAVE (the room, the house, whatever) for 10-15 minutes.

Just one other point -- she knows you will back down from a fight and let her get her way -- WHY? Because this is exactly HOW you have been behaving. There is a saying that folks treat you the way you ALLOW them to treat you.
YOU will have to stop this cycle -- she is happy with it because she wins. You need to stick to your guns on these items and make it clear that she cannot manipulate you anymore (you DO realize she is manipulating you, yes??)


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

PianoMan1979 said:


> Oh I can tell you that thought has crossed my mind, but if I said that to her it would definitely trigger her!


So? Let it trigger her. That's when you just walk away. You've let her have power over you. Walking away will show her you're done with that. If she follows you, take a walk out of the house or get in the car and go for a drive and don't answer the phone or texts until you're ready to deal with it again.


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

jlg07 said:


> ^ THIS!!! Just tell her you are NOT going to do it -- no if, and's, or buts. If it's really important to her SHE will have to do it, and leave it at that.
> If she starts yelling, nagging, etc. -- stay calm, and just repeat that "I'm NOT going to do it -- I have other things to do. If you feel this strongly about it, YOU do it" Just repeat.
> 
> Eventually, she will find out that her throwing a tantrum like a 3 year old no longer works.


I'm pretty sure my wife would murder me and hide my body where no one would find it if I said that to her


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

PianoMan1979 said:


> I'm pretty sure my wife would murder me and hide my body where no one would find it if I said that to her


:surprise::frown2:Only if you let her....... :grin2:


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

PianoMan1979 said:


> Tilted 1 said:
> 
> 
> > This is spewing weakness. And you done it so long you believe this crap. Get your balls from her purse, or is it just her veejay that makes you weak?
> ...


She shows a genuine lack of character. Starting fights around the kids is not cool. I can see why you try to keep the peace when the kids are around.

You also have to realize that things need to change. Do you think your kids are learning a healthy living environment watching their dad being ordered around like a butler and her pitching a fit if you grow a backbone?

That means sitting down with her and making it known that you will not tolerate this anymore and you will leave the marriage if things don't change. So she can't either act like a loving partner instead of a controlling ***, or pack her ****.


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## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

Man, you're putting this on everybody but yourself. It's her fault, it's the fact that she does it in front of the kids, etc. 

Take a look in the mirror my friend. YOU are allowing this to continue. You and she have both spent years training for this type of behavior because it's been allowed to continue. Take responsibility for the things you can. You can't take responsibility for the things SHE can control, but you're fighting tooth and nail to do exactly that.

If you woke up everyday and she kicked you in the shin...to what lengths would you go to have her stop kicking you in the shin? Or would you just let her for the rest of your life? Is it your fault that she is kicking you in the shin, or are you to blame since you've allowed it to happen and continue?


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> She shows a genuine lack of character. Starting fights around the kids is not cool. I can see why you try to keep the peace when the kids are around.
> 
> You also have to realize that things need to change. Do you think your kids are learning a healthy living environment watching their dad being ordered around like a butler and her pitching a fit if you grow a backbone?
> 
> That means sitting down with her and making it known that you will not tolerate this anymore and you will leave the marriage if things don't change. So she can't either act like a loving partner instead of a controlling *****, or pack her ****.


It really hit me the other day when my 13 yo son said "mom and dad, please stop fighting."


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

PianoMan1979 said:


> It really hit me the other day when my 13 yo son said "mom and dad, please stop fighting."


And this is on HER -- you know this. When these start, just walk away -- tell her when she is calm you can continue the talk.

Do this EVERY TIME from now on, ESPECIALLY if she does it in front of the kids. Your son will learn that to just sit there and take the yelling and abuse is NOT an OK thing -- that it is OK to stick up for yourself and have that type of boundary.
You should talk with your son also without your wife to tell him what you are going to start doing, so that HE isn't shocked, but DO NOT involve him in the arguments or try to get him to "take your side". He shouldn't be in the middle of this.


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

Good advice, thank you, I will start doing that immediately. She is now ignoring my calls and texts so I will do the same to her I guess?


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

PianoMan1979 said:


> Good advice, thank you, I will start doing that immediately. She is now ignoring my calls and texts so I will do the same to her I guess?


Don't ignore, but also don't bother trying calls or texts any more. SHE is the one acting like a three year old with the silent treatment (ALSO a manipulation technique) -- you just act like yourself, continue doing what you need to do, and go about your business. Don't bother her or try to talk about this. If you need something specific, just ask THAT question. If she won't answer then just say well that won't get done then, or YOU are just going to make the decision unilaterally since she won't answer, and continue on. Don't be vindictive, but also do NOT let her silent treatment manipulate you into giving in.
Keep calm in tone with her -- don't let it get emotional again. If it does, tell her your "line" and walk away.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Your responses show that *you* have allowed your wife to become your dominant ruler and you are her subservient underling. This is in no way a mutual, healthy relationship. 

Every suggestion is shot down by you. 

Nothing will change about your situation unless you change it. If you aren't up to that, eventually you should stop complaining and just settle into your role you have assumed.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I have a theory that when people act so nasty towards you, they want out. Do you think this might be the case?

If you're the sole breadwinner of the household then she should be doing the housework. And also assigning chores to the kids. Maybe I'm not with parenting these days. I rmember having to clean up the kitchen every other evening until my sister when to college. Then, I had to clean it up every evening. Fold clothes on the weekend and put them in their correct rooms.

My husband works outside the home, so I do all the housework. i may ask him to help me with something, but I do ask nicely.

I would resist being cooperative if my spouse were rude about asking for something. Think about all the issues you want to get straight: ie how to split household chores, since your share actually pays the bills, what you don in theouse should be minimal. What chores can be passed on to your kids and then the rest is hers.

When she asks you to do something that you feel out of line, then tell her that you've been working all day. I would not engage in any verbal sparring after that.


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

Livvie said:


> Your responses show that *you* have allowed your wife to become your dominant ruler and you are her subservient underling. This is in no way a mutual, healthy relationship.
> 
> Every suggestion is shot down by you.
> 
> Nothing will change about your situation unless you change it. If you aren't up to that, eventually you should stop complaining and just settle into your role you have assumed.


I'm not necessarily shooting down every suggestion - they are all good. I just know how she's going to respond and it's almost always a guaranteed fight.


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## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

PianoMan1979 said:


> I'm not necessarily shooting down every suggestion - they are all good. I just know how she's going to respond and it's almost always a guaranteed fight.


So let her go off...just don't respond. You don't NEED to.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

PianoMan1979 said:


> I'm not necessarily shooting down every suggestion - they are all good. I just know how she's going to respond and it's almost always a guaranteed fight.


It sounds like you are someone who avoids conflict as much as possible. Nothing will change unless you man up and bite the bullet and deal with the conflict. It's like childbirth. At the very end the pain intensifies as you push. So you want to stop pushing. But that's the absolute wrong thing to do as it will just lengthen the amount of time you have to suffer. You need to push through that pain even make it worse before you're done. Then you're out of pain and holding a brand new baby for your suffering. Same thing here...you're going to have to make things much more difficult before they get better. Try to avoid that and you're just prolonging your own suffering. Push through the ugliness, even make it worse, and at the other side you'll have a better life/relationship, whether you stay with your wife or not.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

PianoMan1979 said:


> I'm not necessarily shooting down every suggestion - they are all good. I just know how she's going to respond and it's almost always a guaranteed fight.


@PianoMan1979,

When my exH used to yell at me, he would scream for hours...and naturally at a certain point I started to scream back. He would get all wound up...I would get all wound up too...and it was like two tornados! For a long time, I thought I had to either be a tornado to counter-balance his tornado, or I had to put up a wall and just put up with it.

Then I discovered that just because HE got wound up and whirled like an out-of-control tornado, I didn't have to choose that. I could choose something else! I could choose to stay calm. I could choose to sit down and not be moved. I could choose to make a statement. I could choose to walk away. I could choose to take a breath. I could choose to not join in.

Just because your wife gets all riled up and starts a fight, that doesn't mean that YOU have to fight. If she screams and calls name, you could look her right in the eye and say "I do not choose to participate in an argument with you today. I do not choose to scream or call you names. Instead I am going to restate my request in a respectful way. If you want to continue to scream and call names, I think I'm going to choose to go to the family room because I will not be manipulated."

Also, NOTE TO SELF: one time my exH would NOT leave a room, when I asked him respectfully to leave me alone and let me do ___ work. He kept on yelling and fighting and carrying on...and I kept respectfully asking him to please leave me alone and let me work. I repeated those exact words--nothing more, nothing less-- FIFTEEN TIMES!! Finally after that fifteenth time of getting the exact same response repeated over and over, he said "Do you mean you'd really like me to leave the room and let you work?" I said: "YES!!"


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

PianoMan1979 said:


> I just know how she's going to respond and it's almost always a guaranteed fight.


BUT THAT IS THE POINT EVERYONE IS TRYING TO CONVEY HERE. You take charge of the situation. Right now, you are afraid of her ranting and raving. 

You put a stop to the nonsense. She can't fight if you don't engage. You don't defend yourself, you don't counter-attack. You simply say "STOP" get in your car, and drive away.

If she starts giving you attitude and nagging, AGAIN, you DON'T engage.

Has she always been this way? If so, why the heck are you married to her? She sounds like a royal pain in the ass.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

PianoMan1979 said:


> Livvie said:
> 
> 
> > Your responses show that _you_ have allowed your wife to become your dominant ruler and you are her subservient underling. This is in no way a mutual, healthy relationship.
> ...


Yes, there probably would be conflict if you were to respond normally to being treated like crap. She's not a person who treats you with normal human respect. It's a bad situation because that's the behavior she's choosing. You're in a bad situation and have a big problem on your hands.


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

Prodigal said:


> BUT THAT IS THE POINT EVERYONE IS TRYING TO CONVEY HERE. You take charge of the situation. Right now, you are afraid of her ranting and raving.
> 
> You put a stop to the nonsense. She can't fight if you don't engage. You don't defend yourself, you don't counter-attack. You simply say "STOP" get in your car, and drive away.
> 
> ...


 Yes, for most of the marriage she has been a control freak and the nagging has gotten worse.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

PianoMan1979 said:


> Yes, for most of the marriage she has been a control freak and the nagging has gotten worse.


It will only get worse with time. People's personality traits get stronger as they age. You are looking at a lifetime of being henpecked daily. That's not way to live.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

PianoMan1979 said:


> Yes, for most of the marriage she has been a control freak and the nagging has gotten worse.


And you've remained with this woman because … ?????


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

PianoMan1979 said:


> I have and she still comes up with excuses why she can't do it.



Then tell her that her demand must not be a priority for her.
Inform her that she has a choice: continue with the gabfest, take care of the task she demands of you, or learn to MULTITASK.


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

Prodigal said:


> And you've remained with this woman because … ?????


I'm trying as hard as I can to keep my family together. I also have nowhere else to go and I don't want my kids going through divorce if at all possible.


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

notmyjamie said:


> It will only get worse with time. People's personality traits get stronger as they age. You are looking at a lifetime of being henpecked daily. That's not way to live.


I know, but every time I think about leaving, I have no idea where I would go nor do I want to leave my house and kids until I have talked to my attorney.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

PianoMan1979 said:


> I know, but every time I think about leaving, I have no idea where I would go nor do I want to leave my house and kids until I have talked to my attorney.


Stand your ground. Let her leave. I would also be careful. You never know when someone who is verbally abusive will become abusive in other ways ..... financially, physically. Find out what kind of rights you have should anything happen.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

PianoMan1979 said:


> But then I'm the bad guy if I stand up to her and tell her to stop.


No your not. There is no good guy bad guy. There are boundaries and expectations. You are not her employee, when she treats you like tell her to cut it out. 

In the same respect, unload the dishwasher without her having to tell you to do it. Just do it. Pretend it's your house and she is not there. That will put you in a much better position to tell her to cut it out anyway.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

PianoMan1979 said:


> I'm trying as hard as I can to keep my family together.


Meanwhile, your kids are witnessing how your wife treats you and how you react. Not very good role modeling going on. 



PianoMan1979 said:


> I also have nowhere else to go and I don't want my kids going through divorce if at all possible.


What does "nowhere else to go" actually mean? No family? No friends? Not in financial shape to rent an apartment? Does your wife work and contribute to the family finances?

My parents divorced. And with that, I no longer had to listen to my mother's rants at my father. I'm alive and well and in one piece. This seems to be a common issue here, with one partner saying they don't want their kids to deal with divorce.

As it is, it sounds like your kids are already being damaged by your wife's temper tantrums. Consider that.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

PianoMan1979 said:


> I don’t know what else to do. My wife of 15 years acts as if I am her employee and she is the boss. I can’t be around her or talk to her through the phone/text without it turning into another chore for me to complete. She CONSTANTLY tells me to do things and it's getting very annoying. Sometimes she asks me to do things, like load or unload the dishwasher, while she is sitting on the couch on her phone. I can’t talk to her about how her constant “order giving” makes me feel because then she’ll turn it around on me to accuse me of never helping out. Whenever I ask her to do things she gives me an excuse as to why she can’t do it and I can. If I sit down and talk to her about this she’ll get very defensive and a fight will happen. Last night, I was busy doing something else when she called my name out three times in the span of 15 minutes to do random things around the house. I can’t take it anymore but I also don’t want to face the fight that is sure to happen. I need advice!


Face the fight! You can do it.

The word "no" isn't a bad word. Just don't end a no with "later, not right now".

The ignore button can be pushed, when you want to. There are so many ways to address.

Don't have long discussions on it, just take a stand, or argue, just no.

The issue has to move off TDC, or it will never change for you.

She has entitlement syndrome.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Affaircare said:


> @PianoMan1979,
> 
> When my exH used to yell at me, he would scream for hours...and naturally at a certain point I started to scream back. He would get all wound up...I would get all wound up too...and it was like two tornados! For a long time, I thought I had to either be a tornado to counter-balance his tornado, or I had to put up a wall and just put up with it.
> 
> ...


This is a great answer.


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

Prodigal said:


> Meanwhile, your kids are witnessing how your wife treats you and how you react. Not very good role modeling going on.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I can afford a small apartment, but she will not be able to afford the house without my income supporting it. The only family I have local to me are her parents which I refuse to even entertain moving in with them. My wife does work as a teacher but with the mortgage and other bills, she would immediately go underwater on everything.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

PianoMan1979 said:


> Prodigal said:
> 
> 
> > Meanwhile, your kids are witnessing how your wife treats you and how you react. Not very good role modeling going on.
> ...


Right, so you file for divorce, go through the divorce process to split your assets-- sell the house and each go your separate ways. It might require downsizing on both your parts. It's not the end of the world. People do it everyday.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Livvie said:


> Right, so you file for divorce, go through the divorce process to split your assets-- sell the house and each go your separate ways.


Yep. In 100% total agreement with ^^this.^^

Here's the thing @PianoMan1979, you are making excuses for being weak. Fine. Remain with your harpy of a wife and let her order you around for eternity. No skin off my nose.

But you asked for advice. And I'm going to tell you that a control freak needs someone and something to control. You fit the bill as the "someone." It's one thing to be a nice guy, it's another thing to be a doormat. Sadly, you seem to fit into the second category.

Hell, if I'd tried to boss my late husband around the way your wife bosses you, he'd have laughed at me first and then told me to f-off. 

Stay and suck it up or figure out how to leave. Your life. Your choice.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

@PianoMan1979, look you should NOT just jump into divorce -- I don't think ANYONE is suggesting that -- you have too many other things to try before you get to that.

FIRST, just do as many of us have suggested -- do NOT participate in the yelling matches. She WANTS you to lose it so that you will feel bad and do what she wants.

"We can continue this conversation when you have calmed down and stop yelling about it" and then walk away.
Simple enough, no lawyers invovled. Will she get pissed? YES Even more than she is? YES -- why, because YOU are no longer bending to her will -- her manipulation doesn't work anymore. So what? Do you care that she is getting hysterical about trivial things? DOES IT REALLY MATTER. Let her rant and scream -- just don't participate in it anymore. EVERY TIME -- do this EVERY TIME.

Try it, you may like it.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Why don’t you solve this by just deciding on what chores each of you do and be done with it.


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

You should help your wife out from time to time and share workloads so some of this is fine for her to ask for your help and some of it you should do.

That being said, the word NO is your friend. Tell her no sometimes as well. 

Be firm. Let her ask you to do things from time to time....when it is becoming EVERY time she speaks to you tell her no and that this is a conversation you wish to have in which you both just talk as husband and wife adn there are no honey do lists to be brought up. 
Of course you should be talking to her about this regularly....in a loving way. I love you, I want to help you and do things for you, I want to do my share of tasks but I do not want you to ask me to do something every time we have a conversation. 
Then when she is on a roll of always telling you (or asking, I do not know how her tact is) to do something, point it out. Tell her no and tell her you do not want this conversation to involve orders. Say no and refuse to discuss orders from her at times.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

She’ll continue to escalate because ... why not. Fix it or move on. Your children don’t need to grow up in the current environment.


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

PianoMan1979 said:


> When I told her to stop it last night it exploded into a fight which is still going on. I'm at work and she's at home not responding to any of my texts. This will happen for a day or so then she'll demand a gift from me.


It helps if you can get to the point of not caring she is mad at you.
If she is being a jerk then let her be mad. So what.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Let me share something with you. My husband is hopeless at putting his dirty dishes in the dishwasher. He always leaves them on the sink and it drives me nuts. There have been times when I have been sitting having a cup of tea, and I'll ask him to unpack the dishwasher and put his dirty dishes away. Because otherwise I would have to unpack the dishwasher, clear the kitchen and then cook for everyone! NOT. GONNA. HAPPEN.

The thing is, I don't order him to do it, I ask him. If he wouldn't do it, I would then do it but then I wouldn't cook and he'd have to organise tea. I'm not a slave.

You NEED to insist that your wife speaks to you respectfully. It takes two, this can be stopped pretty quickly if you refuse to engage in this kind of behaviour with her. Just stop it. When she starts ranting say firmly "When you speak to me respectfully I will discuss this with you, until then this conversation is over". When she keeps ranting, repeat it again and leave the room. When she continues (because she will) repeat it again and leave the house for half an hour to give her time to calm down.

Her behaviour will get worse before it gets better, she'll up the ante because she's used to bullying you into doing what she wants and when you start to push back by not engaging, she'll try harder. Stand your ground and this will stop in short order.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

IMO: you do not have a marriage, but more of a mom/son or teacher/student relationship. Maybe, as a teacher, she is just used to ordering folks around. You have been given good advice. I, too, do not like conflict.

See a lawyer to get options. See a marriage counselor. Read the books. Otherwise you will have a build-up of resentment, increasing acrimony, and possibly a stroke or heart attack from the stress. Your kids will suffer too.

Perhaps you could read some about positive and negative reinforcement? Y'all's relationship is a bloody mess and will stay the same or deteriorate unless YOU take different action to change it.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

She isn’t your parent, why in the world do you think you have to do everything she tells you to do? Because she gets mad? Who the hell cares! Let her get mad! She isn’t going to eat you alive! Stop cowering like a scared little child, it’s ridiculous and extremely unattractive. 

Your solution is pretty damn simple...just don’t do what she wants if she orders and snarks at you. Refuse. The end. She can’t MAKE you do anything. You have allowed this. It’s up to you to stop it. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NorseViking (Apr 14, 2018)

PianoMan1979 said:


> I don’t know what else to do. My wife of 15 years acts as if I am her employee and she is the boss. I can’t be around her or talk to her through the phone/text without it turning into another chore for me to complete. She CONSTANTLY tells me to do things and it's getting very annoying. Sometimes she asks me to do things, like load or unload the dishwasher, while she is sitting on the couch on her phone. I can’t talk to her about how her constant “order giving” makes me feel because then she’ll turn it around on me to accuse me of never helping out. Whenever I ask her to do things she gives me an excuse as to why she can’t do it and I can. If I sit down and talk to her about this she’ll get very defensive and a fight will happen. Last night, I was busy doing something else when she called my name out three times in the span of 15 minutes to do random things around the house. I can’t take it anymore but I also don’t want to face the fight that is sure to happen. I need advice!


She, my friend is a narcissist most likely.
Google: how to identity a narcissist.
Do not be a doormat, show some spine.
Women hate weak men.
Do a 180, be cold, uncaring, show no affection, leave her alone.
Do your own things, let her do her own chores.
Try grey rock method on her (google it).
If she wants a divorce, give it to her.
The divorce shows strength and stops women like that cold in their tracks.
You can always stop it later.


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

Girl_power said:


> Why don’t you solve this by just deciding on what chores each of you do and be done with it.


Yeah I've tried that. These are things that she just spits out at random times.


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

frusdil said:


> Let me share something with you. My husband is hopeless at putting his dirty dishes in the dishwasher. He always leaves them on the sink and it drives me nuts. There have been times when I have been sitting having a cup of tea, and I'll ask him to unpack the dishwasher and put his dirty dishes away. Because otherwise I would have to unpack the dishwasher, clear the kitchen and then cook for everyone! NOT. GONNA. HAPPEN.
> 
> The thing is, I don't order him to do it, I ask him. If he wouldn't do it, I would then do it but then I wouldn't cook and he'd have to organise tea. I'm not a slave.
> 
> ...


Excellent advice. I will try to stand my ground!


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

“I am not your child or employee.”


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

1. Why are you texting and calling her after these fights and she's ignoring you? Are they emergencies? Do they involve the children? If the answer is no, leave her alone. Do your own thing. Don't be even more needy and clingy than you already appear. Let her stew in her own miserable, shrewish juices.
2. That she would lose the house and have a lower standard of living post divorce is not your problem. Sure, I get that you want your kids to be comfortable and safe whole they're with her, but a little downsizing won't hurt, right? She's an adult, she can figure it out.
3. That you're staying for the children is the absolute worst thing you can do. They have a front row seat to the **** show that is their home. It's far better to have two separate happy households than one conflict filled household.
4. You keep saying you can't do x, y, and z without talking to your lawyer. You're smart in that regard. Make that appointment and get the ball rolling. Your wife sounds awful.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

lucy999 said:


> 1. Why are you texting and calling her after these fights and she's ignoring you? Are they emergencies? Do they involve the children? If the answer is no, leave her alone.


Sounds as though he spends his life weakly kissing up to her looking for her approval. Good lord.

OP - how's your progress on the No More Mr. Nice Guy book going? When you're done, read it about 10 more times until it really makes sense to you.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

PianoMan1979 said:


> I have and she still comes up with excuses why she can't do it.


Don’t engage her in a debate about it. If it’s unreasonable, just say no and walk away.
If she tries to come up with a silly explanation of why she can’t do something, just laugh and walk away.
The point is not to defend yourself or argue about it. Rob the whole interaction of it’s power. “I’m busy” or “no” is a complete sentence and neither requires an explanation or a defence.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

PianoMan1979 said:


> When I told her to stop it last night it exploded into a fight which is still going on. I'm at work and she's at home not responding to any of my texts. This will happen for a day or so then she'll demand a gift from me.


Lol, my wife used to do stuff like this sometimes.
I just totally stopped playing into it. If she’s ignoring you, let her. If she doesn’t respond to a text, stop texting. If she is giving you the silent treatment, have fun with it. You have a free pass to do whatever you want - because for her to complain about it would be breaking her silence.
That’s when you basically go do whatever you want. Put an action movie on. Listen to your music. Do your own thing. Enjoy the fact that she’s not complaining to you about it because she’s playing a childish game.
And if and when she breaks the silence to complain about it... treat it for the joke that it is.
I’m not talking about ignoring real issues or complaints from her side. But I am getting. the sense you take her childish behaviour far too seriously and to heart. It’s literally nothing.
And she wants a gift for being a child? Take a line from me:
”Good wives get shiny things. Bad wives get... other things. Do you need a hint to where you stand with me there?”


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

PianoMan1979 said:


> I have and she still comes up with excuses why she can't do it.


"Then it must not be that important."

Then return to what you were doing.

The only reason she nags is became se YOU allow it to work.

She is either training you with the nagging, or you are training her by showing her it doesn't phase you.

Which is it?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

PianoMan1979 said:


> But then I'm the bad guy if I stand up to her and tell her to stop.


So what.

The problem (among many) with 'nice guys' is they think the asshole label is a bad thing.

Your unwillingness to be an occasional asshole is exactly why your wife doesn't respect you.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## yougogirl (Nov 19, 2018)

PianoMan1979 said:


> I have nowhere to go at this point. And I'm not going to leave my house and kids without consulting with an attorney first.


PianoMan1979 - You are smart not to leave the house before consulting with an attorney. I worked with domestic relations attorneys and a lot can happen detrimentally when a spouse leaves (though I believe it is okay for a spouse to have some "me" time away when needed, if they approach it in a nonthreatening manner, per counselors we have seen). I have been living with a controlling spouse for over 40 years and raised two children, and it can feel like hell on earth. If your accounts are in both your names, I believe an account can be pretty much emptied by a spouse and there's nothing the other spouse can do about it until an attorney gets involved. Then it becomes a knock down drag out fight, takes too long to get resolved, and gets very expensive. You are so right to care about how the fighting is affecting your children because, according to professionals, it IS affecting them. It is best to talk to an attorney first. If your wife would agree to marriage counselling, that could save your marriage. I think my husband went to marriage counselling several times through the years with the main reason in his mind being how expensive it would be for both of us if we divorced. I will be praying for you and your family.


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

yougogirl said:


> PianoMan1979 - You are smart not to leave the house before consulting with an attorney. I worked with domestic relations attorneys and a lot can happen detrimentally when a spouse leaves (though I believe it is okay for a spouse to have some "me" time away when needed, if they approach it in a nonthreatening manner, per counselors we have seen). I have been living with a controlling spouse for over 40 years and raised two children, and it can feel like hell on earth. If your accounts are in both your names, I believe an account can be pretty much emptied by a spouse and there's nothing the other spouse can do about it until an attorney gets involved. Then it becomes a knock down drag out fight, takes too long to get resolved, and gets very expensive. You are so right to care about how the fighting is affecting your children because, according to professionals, it IS affecting them. It is best to talk to an attorney first. If your wife would agree to marriage counselling, that could save your marriage. I think my husband went to marriage counselling several times through the years with the main reason in his mind being how expensive it would be for both of us if we divorced. I will be praying for you and your family.


Thank you for the solid advice. I will keep everyone updated.


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## matador1958 (Oct 24, 2017)

CoachP said:


> Wow, your wife must be a distant relative of my (not soon enough) STBXW, or at least drink from the same water supply! I have a similar post started in the "Mental Health" section because, in my wife's case it *really is* a mental health issue--she's a teenager trapped in a grown woman's body! She'll literally sit around moping that she "can't breath" around the house because it's so messy, but then just sit there on the phone--texting, Facebook, video chat with her girlfriends--while I'm in the kitchen slaving away over dishes and our preschool-aged daughter is leaving a path of destruction in the living room! Finally, she'll put down the phone and then *yell at our daughter* to clean up her toys and *blame me* for not making our daughter clean up--and, oh, _I_ need to help our daughter clean up because "she did it the last time"!
> 
> And, of course, you have enough TAM men saying "man up"! Man up and do _what_? Yellers don't back down when you yell back at them--they just get louder, angrier and use even nastier language--in my case *in front of our daughter* no less. Even worse, she'll *gaslight me*, grab my daughter and retreat upstairs, saying, "Daddy's angry again! He can clean it all up *himself*"!
> 
> It doesn't get any better; and at least be thankful your teenager-acting wife isn't using your young offspring as a shield!


Mine too. Ditto the gaslighting, big time. I've tried the manning up approach but it can get very very ugly and distressing, with no real change. Usually she catches me off guard and I let myself get sucked into a spiralling emotional conflict leaving me devastated. Ultimately I know I need to be prepared to split and take all the stress and upheaval that brings, and check out my rights with a solicitor first. But even though she loathes me, I really love her and I know she'd suffer more than me and I can't do that to her either. She needs professional help, but all she does is mindful self-compassion, pilates yoga, and feminist mutual support get-togethers. Soon as this coronovirus lock down is over...


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## CoachP (Sep 26, 2016)

PianoMan1979 said:


> Yeah I've tried that. These are things that she just spits out at random times.


As I said earlier, we're definitely married to distant relatives of each other! The longer you stay in your thing, dare I say "marriage," expect the nagging to get *even more random*! At some point you realize it's *not even about* the dishes (or other chores) and just about keeping score! "I did _this_ so you do _that_!" It's surreal--certainly not what I grew up in! My parents, sure, had marriage squabbles over the years, but not over what I consider the *basic stuff*! In my parents' household, it wasn't "my dishes" or "your dishes," it was just "_the_ dishes"! The pettiness will *drive you insane*, especially when you're _trying_ to instill integrity and discipline in your children and your wife is acting like she's barely older than they are!


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Your wife actually sounds emotionally abusive. Silent treatment, ''gaslighting,'' and controlling your actions with her everchanging mood swings are all forms of abuse. (I recommend doing a little research on it) I suggest counseling and if she fights with you on that, you might have to ask yourself if you want to live the rest of your life in a controlling, abusive marriage. I'm sorry you're in this situation, but you might have to make some tough decisions.


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

CoachP said:


> As I said earlier, we're definitely married to distant relatives of each other! The longer you stay in your thing, dare I say "marriage," expect the nagging to get *even more random*! At some point you realize it's *not even about* the dishes (or other chores) and just about keeping score! "I did _this_ so you do _that_!" It's surreal--certainly not what I grew up in! My parents, sure, had marriage squabbles over the years, but not over what I consider the *basic stuff*! In my parents' household, it wasn't "my dishes" or "your dishes," it was just "_the_ dishes"! The pettiness will *drive you insane*, especially when you're _trying_ to instill integrity and discipline in your children and your wife is acting like she's barely older than they are!


So I got home from work last night and without saying anything else like “How was your day?” or “I missed you” she immediately says “can you go put the folded clothes away upstairs?” She couldn’t even be bothered to either do that or have the kids help (since they are at home all day). A “please” or “thank you” would have been nice as well.


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

*Deidre* said:


> Your wife actually sounds emotionally abusive. Silent treatment, ''gaslighting,'' and controlling your actions with her everchanging mood swings are all forms of abuse. (I recommend doing a little research on it) I suggest counseling and if she fights with you on that, you might have to ask yourself if you want to live the rest of your life in a controlling, abusive marriage. I'm sorry you're in this situation, but you might have to make some tough decisions.


Yeah it does sound like that and after so many years of putting up with it her behavior has become my norm. Not only does she do the silent treatment whenever she doesn’t get her way, she immediately turns things into my fault when it’s clearly not. If I try to stand up to it, it just drags us into a bigger fight. Her mom does the exact same thing to her dad. I’ve been at their house or on a trip with them and she’s verbally abused and scolded him just like my wife does to me. Acorns never fall far from the tree I guess…


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

yougogirl said:


> PianoMan1979 - You are smart not to leave the house before consulting with an attorney. I worked with domestic relations attorneys and a lot can happen detrimentally when a spouse leaves (though I believe it is okay for a spouse to have some "me" time away when needed, if they approach it in a nonthreatening manner, per counselors we have seen). I have been living with a controlling spouse for over 40 years and raised two children, and it can feel like hell on earth. If your accounts are in both your names, I believe an account can be pretty much emptied by a spouse and there's nothing the other spouse can do about it until an attorney gets involved. Then it becomes a knock down drag out fight, takes too long to get resolved, and gets very expensive. You are so right to care about how the fighting is affecting your children because, according to professionals, it IS affecting them. It is best to talk to an attorney first. If your wife would agree to marriage counselling, that could save your marriage. I think my husband went to marriage counselling several times through the years with the main reason in his mind being how expensive it would be for both of us if we divorced. I will be praying for you and your family.


“Me time”…there’s a thought. If I go down to my “man cave” or want to run to a few stores on my own, my wife guilts me out of it. She usually says something like “you would rather go down to your man cave than sit and talk with me? or “why can’t we go to the store together?” Of course we do things together ALL THE TIME but in those few instances where I want a few minutes to myself, she takes it personally and accuses me of not loving her or not wanting to spend time with her. I did meet with an attorney about a year ago to get some advice and have been in counseling on my own to talk about these issues. I am frankly terrified of going to marriage counseling because just giving her the idea will set her off, and then she’ll find ways to blame me during the counseling sessions.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

PianoMan1979 said:


> “Me time”…there’s a thought. If I go down to my “man cave” or want to run to a few stores on my own, my wife guilts me out of it. She usually says something like “you would rather go down to your man cave than sit and talk with me? or “why can’t we go to the store together?” Of course we do things together ALL THE TIME but in those few instances where I want a few minutes to myself, she takes it personally and accuses me of not loving her or not wanting to spend time with her. I did meet with an attorney about a year ago to get some advice and have been in counseling on my own to talk about these issues. I am frankly terrified of going to marriage counseling because just giving her the idea will set her off, and then she’ll find ways to blame me during the counseling sessions.


SO, you say she guilts you out of it -- YOU let that happen. Just don't let her do that.... Just do what you were going to do.
SO, if you need time - just take it. Don't tell her -- just do it. Just go down to your man cave -- you don't have to tell her you are doing it. Pop out to the store -- if she gets mad, just say I had to pick up x,y,z. Leave it at that. If she comes to find you, then tell her you are working on something and will be up when you are finished. 

The bad part here is that her temper is so off the charts that she has you cowed and you DON'T stand up to her. The longer it's been going on, the worse this is because she has accepted that you WILL NOT stand up for yourself. Any change to that now is going to fire her up worse.

As for MC, you need to pick one that will NOT allow her to go off on you during the sessions. IF the MC allows that, then get up, tell the MC that you will not allow this to happen, and walk out. Pick a new MC. The MC isn't supposed to be on YOUR side or HER side. They should be a neutral 3rd party that can mediate these types of discussions.


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## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

PianoMan1979 said:


> So I got home from work last night and without saying anything else like “How was your day?” or “I missed you” she immediately says “can you go put the folded clothes away upstairs?” She couldn’t even be bothered to either do that or have the kids help (since they are at home all day). A “please” or “thank you” would have been nice as well.


Only one question here is relevant.

Did you put the clothes away as requested?


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

hubbyintrubby said:


> Only one question here is relevant.
> 
> Did you put the clothes away as requested?


Of course I did


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## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

PianoMan1979 said:


> Of course I did


I'm curious as to what you're looking to gain for posting on this board.

You've been given loads of advice, but you're doing the same things as you've always done. This is only evidence of that.


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

hubbyintrubby said:


> I'm curious as to what you're looking to gain for posting on this board.
> 
> You've been given loads of advice, but you're doing the same things as you've always done. This is only evidence of that.


I realize that. Things can't change overnight. I've been putting up with it for so long these responses are starting to help me realize this is not ok and not normal.


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## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

PianoMan1979 said:


> I realize that. Things can't change overnight. I've been putting up with it for so long these responses are starting to help me realize this is not ok and not normal.


Good. I'm glad you're realizing that. 

Now is the time for action. Things won't change without it.

I know it's scary. I've been there, almost exactly. I know what it's like. 

Nothing will change without YOUR action.


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

hubbyintrubby said:


> Good. I'm glad you're realizing that.
> 
> Now is the time for action. Things won't change without it.
> 
> ...


Appreciate the advice. And I agree, time for action.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

PianoMan1979 said:


> Of course I did


Here's what you need to internalize. Any man I've had a relationship with in all of my 50+ years would have reacted to the rudeness of not getting a proper saying hello coupled with that kind of request regarding the laundry with something along the lines of: a snort, chuckle, maybe even a "ha!" followed by a big huge withdrawal of him going and doing his own thing. And not a care in the world of any attitude that he's "bad", knowing the person who is dishing that stuff out is dysfunctional as ****.


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

So my wife handed out 4 orders in the 2 hours I was home from work today. Finally told her that I'm not her child or employee. She's now pouting upstairs.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Good -- PLEASE let her pout. Don't try to appease her or apologize. Go on and do what you need to do but not THOSE 4 orders!


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## matador1958 (Oct 24, 2017)

PianoMan1979 said:


> So my wife handed out 4 orders in the 2 hours I was home from work today. Finally told her that I'm not her child or employee. She's now pouting upstairs.


When my wife does that, which is often, the pouting turns to distressing sobbing pretty soon like you wouldn't believe and I go up to comfort her and show I'm not a total unfeeling monster, and then she knows she's got me. More angry hysterical emotional accusations from her till I'm a wreck. Lately I've tried resisting that urge to be the good guy, and instead allowed her to seem me as that monster. Sick to my guns quietly, firmly, without animosity. And it doesn't change her behaviour but it gives me just a bit more inner authenticity and strength. be honest with yourself about how you've behaved, I'd say, but stick to your guns and do not be guilted. You and me are in the same boat, so I'm rooting for you.


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

It's tough. Trying to keep my foot down in the midst of her pouting is very difficult. Good luck to you as well.


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## matador1958 (Oct 24, 2017)

PianoMan1979 said:


> It's tough. Trying to keep my foot down in the midst of her pouting is very difficult. Good luck to you as well.


It's emotional manipulation, we have to remember that. And letting it work won't even help her, let alone you. Can I ask you, do you two ever have any good fun times? Is there something that makes you both happy? Do you enjoy bed times, go to gig together things like that? And if so does that make up for the traumas?


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

matador1958 said:


> It's emotional manipulation, we have to remember that. And letting it work won't even help her, let alone you. Can I ask you, do you two ever have any good fun times? Is there something that makes you both happy? Do you enjoy bed times, go to gig together things like that? And if so does that make up for the traumas?


Yes we do sometimes. Before the coronavirus hit we tried to go out at least once a week. As for the bed, that's another way for her to try to control me. If she is in the mood and I am not she automatically assumes I don't love her.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

PianoMan1979 said:


> It's tough. Trying to keep my foot down in the midst of her pouting is very difficult. Good luck to you as well.


I guess I just don't understand this.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

PianoMan1979 said:


> It's tough. Trying to keep my foot down in the midst of her pouting is very difficult. Good luck to you as well.


matador1958, I got a question for you both, what in the heck happened in your lives that you both are jellyfish? And use the camouflage of a octopus, to change your colors to hide in your surroundings. What happened to you both? I really want to know. 

Did you have overbearing mothers,abuse, single parent raised by a mother, WHAT? I really want to know.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Read up the Toolbox section here: https://outofthefog.website/toolbox-intro

Not at all saying your wife has a personality disorder. We all at times exhibit some of the counterproductive behaviors detailed there, and everyone could benefit from knowing the tactics listed for dealing with them.

Also, are there any pleasant times in your relationship? Emotional intimacy and connection? Physical touch, including cuddling and sex?

Is her life filled with stress, and she is just not coping well? Or is More like she is entitled, lazy, bossy even on a good day?

Is there something she is angry about, or is that her natural state?
Also, what are your ages, including the kids approximately)?


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## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

PianoMan1979 said:


> It's tough. Trying to keep my foot down in the midst of her pouting is very difficult. Good luck to you as well.


How did the rest of the past couple of days go, @PianoMan1979 ?


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## CoachP (Sep 26, 2016)

PianoMan1979 said:


> So I got home from work last night and without saying anything else like “How was your day?” or “I missed you” she immediately says “can you go put the folded clothes away upstairs?” She couldn’t even be bothered to either do that or have the kids help (since they are at home all day). A “please” or “thank you” would have been nice as well.


Yup, my STBXW to the letter! I can't tell you how many times over the years I told her that *even a simple "thank you"* would go a *long way *and you just get the blank stare like "isn't that what a *husband* is supposed to do!" Classic NPD with a side of BPD! What's worse, as I mentioned, is you're trying to instill discipline in your child(ren) and here they see one parent just doing whatever she wants!


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

hubbyintrubby said:


> How did the rest of the past couple of days go, @PianoMan1979 ?


We aren’t fighting at the moment but she still just thinks it’s appropriate to hand me random tasks without as much as a “please” or “thank you.” I have started defending myself whenever she starts and she reacts like I never do anything around the house, which has NEVER been true.


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

CoachP said:


> Yup, my STBXW to the letter! I can't tell you how many times over the years I told her that *even a simple "thank you"* would go a *long way *and you just get the blank stare like "isn't that what a *husband* is supposed to do!" Classic NPD with a side of BPD! What's worse, as I mentioned, is you're trying to instill discipline in your child(ren) and here they see one parent just doing whatever she wants!


She does this ALL THE TIME. When I responded to her “I’m not your child or your employee” she acted confused and asked me what I meant by that. While I am still at work in the office (work in the financial industry so we’re essential) I will be moving to work from home soon as ordered by my company. I DREAD being there with her all day every day because I can just see it now…I’ll be trying to work and she’ll interrupt me to ask me to do stuff.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

PianoMan1979 said:


> We aren’t fighting at the moment but she still just thinks it’s appropriate to hand me random tasks without as much as a “please” or “thank you.” I have started defending myself whenever she starts and she reacts like I never do anything around the house, which has NEVER been true.


"Sorry, busy."
Don't defend yourself, explain yourself, or even engage in the conversation. That's a complete sentence.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

PianoMan1979 said:


> She does this ALL THE TIME. When I responded to her “I’m not your child or your employee” she acted confused and asked me what I meant by that. While I am still at work in the office (work in the financial industry so we’re essential) I will be moving to work from home soon as ordered by my company. I DREAD being there with her all day every day because I can just see it now…I’ll be trying to work and she’ll interrupt me to ask me to do stuff.


We went through that a bit, too. Some of my staff are using silly hats - when they're wearing them, they're busy. I never did that, but my wife and I have worked out how to just look at each other and know if we're busy (she's doing a degree from home).


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

PieceOfSky said:


> Read up the Toolbox section here: https://outofthefog.website/toolbox-intro
> 
> Not at all saying your wife has a personality disorder. We all at times exhibit some of the counterproductive behaviors detailed there, and everyone could benefit from knowing the tactics listed for dealing with them.
> 
> ...



There are pleasant times but she makes it very difficult to be intimate with all her constant nagging/bickering at me. Sex about once a week but if we go beyond that she starts accusing me of “not loving her” or “being interested in someone else.”

She is a special needs teacher with a license to work with the most severely disabled kids in the school. She constantly gets physically abused by the students but she loves what she does. She has changed schools three times in the past 5 years. I continue to recommend she look for something that would get her out of that type of physical abuse but teaching those kids is what she loves the most.

I don’t think there is necessarily something that she is angry about. She naturally gives me directions and gets mad whenever I try to push back. I’ve put up with it for the past 15 years and it’s finally gotten to me. I am not her slave. I am not her child. I am not her employee. I am her husband who works very hard both out of the home and around the house. She treats me the exact same way her mom treats her dad and he just coils up in a ball and puts up with her behavior too.

I have 4 kids – 13, 11, 10, and 5.


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

Marduk said:


> "Sorry, busy."
> Don't defend yourself, explain yourself, or even engage in the conversation. That's a complete sentence.


That makes sense to say but almost guarantees a fight with her.


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## matador1958 (Oct 24, 2017)

Tilted 1 said:


> matador1958, I got a question for you both, what in the heck happened in your lives that you both are jellyfish? And use the camouflage of a octopus, to change your colors to hide in your surroundings. What happened to you both? I really want to know.
> 
> Did you have overbearing mothers,abuse, single parent raised by a mother, WHAT? I really want to know.


Fair question. In general life I'm not a jellyfish. But there's a number of factors I can think of that make me particularly vulnerable to this kind of abuse. One is that for some reason I really love her and care about her well being. Another is that having divorced my first wife because she was bullying our son and trying to bully me, unsuccessfully, I wanted this time for it to be better, and I guess she knows I will never leave. Or she thinks she knows. So she takes advantage, and she's gotten used to that. So some of this is me being in some way weak, I know that and I'm addressing it.

However not wanting to go into too much detail, it turns out she really does have a narcissistic personality disorder, so I'm told, and it makes sense to me. She doesn't just pout, she goes full manic meltdown batshit self-destruct crazy, if she's even slightly offended. It's seriously scary, and it's shocked the **** out of anyone else who's been in the way of it. I don't pussyfoot around her, I just manage the situations now. e.g. If I dare to ask her for once to do some reasonable chore, say, I let her start arguing, notice her face shape-shift to demon, and quietly move on to whatever else it is I have to do at the time. I don't feed the demon with argument or protest or justification. That works. In less than half a day her seething subsides, if I'm lucky, and we get on fine-ish.

But sometimes I'm caught off guard, like looking the hydra in the eye, and I get sucked into a maelstrom. Basically if you stand up to this one, there's no backing down, not even by backing down. You have to swim along with it, like swimming down an avalanche. I hope you think I'm being over-melodramatic, because if you really know what I mean and believe me it means you've suffered some horrible **** too.

So I agree in general with the idea of not buying in to the role she wants.

This situation didn't happen suddenly, it developed bit by bit undetected until a pattern was established, like getting caught in a spider's web. And I could solve the problem now, but I'd be sofa-surfing and the house would be repossessed and she'd be in an institution, and what with Covid19 and everything that's another trauma I can't take on right now.

But this should be about PianoMan, not me. I wouldn't mind betting that he's not just weak either, but it takes encouragement and moral support to make the change in that aspect of our own behaviour that might be contributing to the relationship's dysfunction, because it wouldn't have happened at once but gradually. there's a saying: the one that loves least as the power. Seems to be true.


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## matador1958 (Oct 24, 2017)

PianoMan1979 said:


> That makes sense to say but almost guarantees a fight with her.


PianoMan, the advice I've been given then is to distance yourself, physically, go for a walk or a drive and ground yourself, notice the here and now and notice you're not doing anything bad or wrong. Repeat your self calmly (I'm not doing that) and leave it at that. We have to remind ourselves it's a no-win fight, don't be suckered in man.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

PianoMan1979 said:


> That makes sense to say but almost guarantees a fight with her.


It takes two people to fight.
If you laugh and walk away, there's nobody there for her to fight with.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

PianoMan1979 said:


> That makes sense to say but almost guarantees a fight with her.


It takes two to fight.
Walk away. Let her stew.


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## matador1958 (Oct 24, 2017)

PianoMan1979 said:


> Yes we do sometimes. Before the coronavirus hit we tried to go out at least once a week. As for the bed, that's another way for her to try to control me. If she is in the mood and I am not she automatically assumes I don't love her.


I get that. Ditto me. How about this: Let her assume that, BE the bad guy. Sacrifice your own sense of being good or right or fair in her eyes. or even in your own. (Then later you be the one to ask her) You and me need to remind ourselves No is real word and can do a lot of good.


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## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

PianoMan1979 said:


> That makes sense to say but almost guarantees a fight with her.


It's only a fight if you fight back, my friend. Once you say it, that's all the engagement that is necessary.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

matador1958 said:


> This situation didn't happen suddenly, it developed bit by bit undetected until a pattern was established, like getting caught in a spider's web. And I could solve the problem now, but I'd be sofa-surfing and the house would be repossessed and she'd be in an institution, and what with Covid19 and everything that's another trauma I can't take on right now.
> 
> But this should be about PianoMan, not me. I wouldn't mind betting that he's not just weak either, but it takes encouragement and moral support to make the change in that aspect of our own behaviour that might be contributing to the relationship's dysfunction, because it wouldn't have happened at once but gradually. there's a saying: the one that loves least as the power. Seems to be true.


Thanks for the reply. But your correct about it happening over time. Maybe while trying to reverse this pattern slowly it could work. But I bet not once a person has that type of power they rarely let it go. 

But so far as you being brave and truthful by sharing it may encourage other who struggle with the same. Or for that fact, you getting it off of your chest may start your ability to work through this with new choice you thought we're not possible. 

With TAMER'S here may allow you a path with support and encouragement to free yourself of this vicious cycle that repeats itself over and over. 

My hat is off to you for being brave enough to start exploring your value and know that your life is too short and people with malicious mental traits do not get well without intervention and even with intervention fail because it's their standard they likely use because if their disorder.

And hopefully pianoman, will be strengthen with your candor.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Marduk said:


> It takes two people to fight.
> If you laugh and walk away, there's nobody there for her to fight with.


And it really pisses them off,😉


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Tilted 1 said:


> And it really pisses them off,😉


That's just a bonus.
But it also hammers the point home that whatever it is they're trying to get by acting this way is no longer going to work. When the cheese gets moved, the mouse goes hungry and is forced to try another tactic.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Marduk said:


> That's just a bonus.
> But it also hammers the point home that whatever it is they're trying to get by acting this way is no longer going to work. When the cheese gets moved, the mouse goes hungry and is forced to try another tactic.


in my management training " Who moved my cheese was required reading"


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

PianoMan1979 said:


> We aren’t fighting at the moment but she still just thinks it’s appropriate to hand me random tasks without as much as a “please” or “thank you.” I have started defending myself whenever she starts and she reacts like I never do anything around the house, which has NEVER been true.


So? I take it you haven't read No More Mr Nice Guy yet. It's available online. You could be reading it right now. She isn't the problem, you are.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

PianoMan1979 said:


> She treats me the exact same way her mom treats her dad and he just coils up in a ball and puts up with her behavior too.


So why do YOU put up with it?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Geez, you may as well have joined the army. They give lots of orders, too.

Your wife sees herself as the one who keeps the wheels on the bus turning round and round. She delegates tasks that do not require her expertise. 

You need to have a convo wherein you set forth some standards. You can say that you do not want to be assigned chores the minute you walk in the door, for example. Think about what she could say and how she could say it that would make it more palatable for you. Point out that her time is *not* more valuable than yours. Good luck (you're going to need it to break this pattern).


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## st5555 (Dec 7, 2019)

Since she is always accusing you of never doing anything around the house, you should state that from now on you aren't doing anything around the house. If her statement is true, then nothing will change. If her statement is wrong, she might realize just how much you really do to help out.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

PianoMan1979 said:


> Of course I did


I'm sure someone has already said it...if so, it bears repeating.

And that is why she does it.



Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

PianoMan1979 said:


> That makes sense to say but almost guarantees a fight with her.


So what. 

Until you learn to stop fearing her, nothing changes. 

Was your mother abusive?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

How has the weekend gone @PianoMan1979 ?


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

hubbyintrubby said:


> How has the weekend gone @PianoMan1979 ?


The weekend wasn’t much better, but I continued to stand my ground. Yesterday, we were lying on the bed watching some Netflix and all of a sudden she grabbed her wine glass, put it in my face, and demanded I get her more wine. I responded with “I am not your personal butler and you are not incapable of getting up to get it yourself.” Her response? “I gave birth to your four kids so the least you can do is get me more wine.” I swear, I am not too far away from contacting a lawyer. I refuse to be treated like this any longer but she doesn’t seem to understand.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Did you get her more wine?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

You talk too much.

"No."

That's it. That's all. 

"No."

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

lucy999 said:


> Did you get her more wine?


This is the bazillion dollar question.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

PianoMan1979 said:


> Her response? “I gave birth to your four kids so the least you can do is get me more wine.”


Your response: And, I've been paying for it ever since.

That'll teach you to keep your penis in your pants.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

lucy999 said:


> Did you get her more wine?


Now, you know he did. You little pot-stirrer, you.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> Now, you know he did. You little pot-stirrer, you.


I'm hoping with that question, he will start to understand why he is making no headway with his recent declarations of "you're not the boss of me" if he did, indeed, get her more wine.

@PianoMan1979 your wife is a bully. And I truly understand how hard it is to stand up to one. I'm a people pleaser and it takes a herculean effort for me to find my courage and stand up for myself. It's scary! And I'm 51!

You can't make a declaration and not follow through. So my question remains--did you get her more wine?

A TAM member long ago who is a retired police officer highly recommended the book, Verbal Judo. I think you should take a look. It helps the reader diffuse a verbal confrontation and teaches how to react to one appropriately, and get cooperation.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

PianoMan1979 said:


> The weekend wasn’t much better, but I continued to stand my ground. Yesterday, we were lying on the bed watching some Netflix and all of a sudden she grabbed her wine glass, put it in my face, and demanded I get her more wine. I responded with “I am not your personal butler and you are not incapable of getting up to get it yourself.”


Learning to disconnect, or detach as many call it, takes practice. It also requires not giving a crap. You responded in a way that let her know she got a rise out of you. You also said too many words. A simple "No" is all that was required. No explanation. No argument. End of sentence. End of paragraph.

You are learning that to engage your wife beyond responding with a monosyllabic grunt will reap you listening to her big mouth. Seriously.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

I thinking saying more than a single syllable at this point can be useful, if you’re interested in catching an indirect glimpse of her internal state and “thought” process. Or if you want to attempt to make clear to her what yours is.

But, sure, weigh the diminishing returns andenjoy the freedom to not engage her and not give her your energy to feed off of.

You mentioned wine. Lots of people drink moderately without creating problems. On the other hand, I’ve seen people capable of being kind and loving be real asshole bullies when they drink, or miss a drink. Could that be part of her problem? 

I’m not optimistic reason will make any impact on her, but, next time you are attempting to clarify how you will not accept being treated poorly, perhaps noting the parallels with how her mother treats her father will resonate a tiny bit. If it doesn’t resonate at all, then at least you have another data point about how blind she is to her bad behavior.


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

That is so hard to do especially when she continues going on and on after I say no.


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

Prodigal said:


> Learning to disconnect, or detach as many call it, takes practice. It also requires not giving a crap. You responded in a way that let her know she got a rise out of you. You also said too many words. A simple "No" is all that was required. No explanation. No argument. End of sentence. End of paragraph.
> 
> You are learning that to engage your wife beyond responding with a monosyllabic grunt will reap you listening to her big mouth. Seriously.


This is definitely something that's taking practice and not something I think she will respond to immediately, but I guarantee if she does it today all she will get from me is a "no."


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

PianoMan1979 said:


> That is so hard to do especially when she continues going on and on after I say no.


Your refusal to leave the house when it continues simply enables it.

If it continues, grab some gym clothes and go work out. 

Or go get some ice cream. 

Or go to a Best Buy to drool over televisions.

Whatever your flavor is...if she will not let up, you leave.

Then you communicate to her:

"If you nag, I leave the house. If you nag a second time, I leave for longer. If after six months you continue to nag, I leave forever.

"This is not a negotiation. From here, you get to choose our way forward."

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

PianoMan1979 said:


> That is so hard to do especially when she continues going on and on after I say no.


My children when toddlers used to sometimes go on and on about stuff (what child hasn't had a tantrum at some point in their little life). Ya tune it out, go about your business, eventually it stops. If parents around the world can learn this strategy, so can you.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

PianoMan1979 said:


> I don’t know what else to do. My wife of 15 years acts as if I am her employee and she is the boss. I can’t be around her or talk to her through the phone/text without it turning into another chore for me to complete. She CONSTANTLY tells me to do things and it's getting very annoying. Sometimes she asks me to do things, like load or unload the dishwasher, while she is sitting on the couch on her phone. I can’t talk to her about how her constant “order giving” makes me feel because then she’ll turn it around on me to accuse me of never helping out. Whenever I ask her to do things she gives me an excuse as to why she can’t do it and I can. If I sit down and talk to her about this she’ll get very defensive and a fight will happen. Last night, I was busy doing something else when she called my name out three times in the span of 15 minutes to do random things around the house. I can’t take it anymore but I also don’t want to face the fight that is sure to happen. I need advice!


do you do your part around the house without her nagging about it? or does she have to remind you every little thing you were legitimately supposed to do?


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

An hour ago we were sitting at the dinner table. My wife shoves her wine glass in my face. I told her that I'm not her servant. She got mad and is now pouting upstairs and not taking to me.


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

WandaJ said:


> do you do your part around the house without her nagging about it? or does she have to remind you every little thing you were legitimately supposed to do?


Yes


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

PianoMan1979 said:


> An hour ago we were sitting at the dinner table. My wife shoves her wine glass in my face. I told her that I'm not her servant. She got mad and is now pouting upstairs and not taking to me.


Ignore her. It’s that simple. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@PianoMan1979 

After you say “no” and she begins to start in on her “going on and on” as you call it, put your hsnd up like a stop sign ✋ and just tell her “I am not interested in any more verbal abuse. You spoke your mind, I heard you, and my answer is no. We are done here”

Calmly. Respectfully. But firmly. If she continues, stand up, walk to a room with a lock,and close and lock the door. Be silent and just go about your evening.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

PianoMan1979 said:


> An hour ago we were sitting at the dinner table. My wife shoves her wine glass in my face. I told her that I'm not her servant. She got mad and is now pouting upstairs and not taking to me.


@PianoMan1979. It is a shame she will miss an entire evening of your fine company because she chooses to pout about not getting her own wine. (Shrug). Oh well... her loss.


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## DawgFan79 (Nov 19, 2019)

She says she was just joking. I dont buy it for one second.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

PianoMan1979 said:


> An hour ago we were sitting at the dinner table. My wife shoves her wine glass in my face. I told her that I'm not her servant. She got mad and is now pouting upstairs and not taking to me.


Good. You got her attention.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

PianoMan1979 said:


> She says she was just joking. I dont buy it for one second.


Show her you are a comedian. 
Quote Howard Beale: "I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore."


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## jimmyrich (Apr 10, 2020)

PianoMan1979 said:


> I don’t know what else to do. I can’t take it anymore but I also don’t want to face the fight that is sure to happen. I need advice!


It's your life! LIve in fear and hopelessness or take back your POWER. I studied Self Esteem work and finally got enough backbone to stand up to my then controlling wife and a few other "controllers" so now I don't take ANYTHING from anyone! Learning that you have & deserve self respect, dignity and value could turn this all around but it won't be easy since she is used to your timidity and fear of her. She will most likely fight you all the way BUT it's your life, so live it like a whipped dog or like a roaring tiger! Get some self esteem books or just google it. Good luck, jim


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## CoachP (Sep 26, 2016)

WandaJ said:


> do you do your part around the house without her nagging about it? or does she have to remind you every little thing you were legitimately supposed to do?


Seriously?! *Please *tell me you read through the pages of this thread and can come to a better conclusion than that the OP is just complaining about his wife "nagging" him about chores! Piano's wife is like my STBXW and (and apparently Matador's wife): he _is_ *doing his fair share* and his wife is just being an annoying brat who belittles him, even worse in front of child(ren)! Nobody disputes that there are still plenty of men who don't do enough chores around the house, but, in this case, it's just constant, unnecessary verbal abuse!


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## matador1958 (Oct 24, 2017)

PianoMan1979 said:


> An hour ago we were sitting at the dinner table. My wife shoves her wine glass in my face. I told her that I'm not her servant. She got mad and is now pouting upstairs and not taking to me.





PianoMan1979 said:


> She says she was just joking. I dont buy it for one second.


That's perfect. You don't have to buy it, and you don't have to reject it. I'd just say okay precious, no problem, and carry on whatever you're doing. If she wants to start an argument just calmly decline the offer. If you get the chance take the initiative and get her a glass of wine like it's nothing. And if you get the chance say Hey babe you couldn't help me with this [insert some chore you've chosen to do off your own bat] could you? Then you can't lose. She most likely will get all offended like you're trying something on or implying she doesn't pull her weight (which she doesn't, not yet anyway), but that's her problem and you have to believe that and act like that. This is most likely alien to you because you're a naturally empathetic and sympathetic and helpful person. Stick with it friend. Don't be guilted, don't get defensive, have faith. My W has moved on to a different strategy for vexing me now but I won't go into that here.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

What's with her shoving her wine glass in your face? Was she raised in a barn? That's just rude.

You need to school her (ha-ha) in the proper to way to make a request of someone. Ex: Dear, would you mind getting me another glass of wine, please? You: I would be happy to. or Are your legs broken? Depends on your mood at the time.

She needs to learn the word 'please'. It isn't just for children.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I don’t believe in asking someone to do something for you that you’re capable of doing yourself. So tell her “no”.


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## Ella-Bee (Apr 18, 2020)

Ok, you will likely hate me for saying this... but I'm not buying this for a second. You clearly want to live like this at some level or you would have left. This has nothing to do with your kids. Living in an abusive household is far FAR worse than divorce and you know it. This is about your ego. You have some f*cked up saviour complex and believe women are these vulnerable, pathetic little creatures that need protecting and you are this demi-god hero type that can magically change her if you try hard enough. You believe you can control the way she acts through your own behaviour, rather than acknowledging that she is fully in control of what she is doing and responsible for it. She gets away with acting like a spoilt bratty four year old because deep down you believe she has no more value than a spoilt bratty four year old. I imagine you either had a single mother that used you as a surrogate husband or your own parents had the same screwed up dynamic and you've internalised your father's attitude towards women. 

If you honestly viewed women as equal sentient beings and fully capable of morals, empathy, hard work and all the other values you expect from men, then you would naturally demand those from your wife. The fact that you don't is incredibly telling. Behaviour that is shocking and abhorent to most sane humans clearly isn't to you. Yes, your wife is likely a narcissist and will be until the day she dies. Those people are morally dead inside. However, that doesn't really bother you. You are absolutely fine with subjecting your children to her abuse and rage and teaching them to expect the same in their own relationships when they are older. You could give them at least another home to escape to that is peaceful and free of stress. You could teach them that abuse is not acceptable in relationships and no one should put up with it. But you don't. If you have a daughter, you are teaching her that women are not fully functioning adults and not responsible for their actions. If you have a son, you are teaching him that he is worth nothing more than his money and willingness to be a slave. You are creating the next generation of gold-diggers and door mats. Congratulations.

I have no sympathy for you. I was in an abusive relationship for years, but would never in a million years have brought children into it. I knew I had massive ego and control issues and had therapy for years to get over that. Once I stopped believing I was some diety that had magical powers to fix other humans, there was no motivation to stay.


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## matador1958 (Oct 24, 2017)

Ella-Bee said:


> Ok, you will likely hate me for saying this... but I'm not buying this for a second. You clearly want to live like this at some level or you would have left. This has nothing to do with your kids. Living in an abusive household is far FAR worse than divorce and you know it. This is about your ego. You have some f*cked up saviour complex and believe women are these vulnerable, pathetic little creatures that need protecting and you are this demi-god hero type that can magically change her if you try hard enough. You believe you can control the way she acts through your own behaviour, rather than acknowledging that she is fully in control of what she is doing and responsible for it. She gets away with acting like a spoilt bratty four year old because deep down you believe she has no more value than a spoilt bratty four year old. I imagine you either had a single mother that used you as a surrogate husband or your own parents had the same screwed up dynamic and you've internalised your father's attitude towards women.
> 
> If you honestly viewed women as equal sentient beings and fully capable of morals, empathy, hard work and all the other values you expect from men, then you would naturally demand those from your wife. The fact that you don't is incredibly telling. Behaviour that is shocking and abhorent to most sane humans clearly isn't to you. Yes, your wife is likely a narcissist and will be until the day she dies. Those people are morally dead inside. However, that doesn't really bother you. You are absolutely fine with subjecting your children to her abuse and rage and teaching them to expect the same in their own relationships when they are older. You could give them at least another home to escape to that is peaceful and free of stress. You could teach them that abuse is not acceptable in relationships and no one should put up with it. But you don't. If you have a daughter, you are teaching her that women are not fully functioning adults and not responsible for their actions. If you have a son, you are teaching him that he is worth nothing more than his money and willingness to be a slave. You are creating the next generation of gold-diggers and door mats. Congratulations.
> 
> I have no sympathy for you. I was in an abusive relationship for years, but would never in a million years have brought children into it. I knew I had massive ego and control issues and had therapy for years to get over that. Once I stopped believing I was some diety that had magical powers to fix other humans, there was no motivation to stay.


wow, tough but true. Wish I'd heard that a while ago tbh. Though maybe it's also about sticking to marriage vows like for better or for worse till death us do part? Not easy to give up on something you committed to.


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## Ella-Bee (Apr 18, 2020)

matador1958 said:


> wow, tough but true. Wish I'd heard that a while ago tbh. Though maybe it's also about sticking to marriage vows like for better or for worse till death us do part? Not easy to give up on something you committed to.


I probably worded that far too harshly than I could have, but I stand by everything I said. And those marriage vows were designed for a society in which people lived much shorter lives and women were at the mercy of men to survive. It was incredibly rare for a woman to have enough money of her own to not need to rely on a man's commitment to her. Women had to be owned and taken care of by either a father or a husband, and if the man wasn't dedicated to them then they would likely suffer for it. In return, they remained loyal to the man and gave him children. The vows in front of God, family and friends gave her some reassurance of that and it was a pretty good arrangement for both genders at the time (at least better than the alternatives).

Women do not need that protection today. We have just as much freedom as a man to go out and earn our own money. Marriage is more of a nicety than anything else. A cutural expectation left over from when it was a life or death requirement. If a couple divorce, it generally hurts the man far more than it does the woman. Women tend to do quite well out of it, which is why marriage is something gold-diggers try to push for as soon as they can.

The difficulty you are having in 'giving up on commitment' is a combination of 'trauma bonding' and 'sunk cost fallacy'. I would advise you to research both of those. 

Sorry, but I would have far more respect for you if you came out and said you didn't want to divorce because you'd miss the sex and don't want to hand over half of your hard earned wealth. Those two I could at least understand.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

PianoMan1979 said:


> An hour ago we were sitting at the dinner table. My wife shoves her wine glass in my face. I told her that I'm not her servant. She got mad and is now pouting upstairs and not taking to me.


A good flushing of her tear ducts could be beneficial.
Take her some cheese to have with her whine.


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## matador1958 (Oct 24, 2017)

Ella-Bee said:


> I probably worded that far too harshly than I could have, but I stand by everything I said. And those marriage vows were designed for a society in which people lived much shorter lives and women were at the mercy of men to survive. It was incredibly rare for a woman to have enough money of her own to not need to rely on a man's commitment to her. Women had to be owned and taken care of by either a father or a husband, and if the man wasn't dedicated to them then they would likely suffer for it. In return, they remained loyal to the man and gave him children. The vows in front of God, family and friends gave her some reassurance of that and it was a pretty good arrangement for both genders at the time (at least better than the alternatives).
> 
> Women do not need that protection today. We have just as much freedom as a man to go out and earn our own money. Marriage is more of a nicety than anything else. A cutural expectation left over from when it was a life or death requirement. If a couple divorce, it generally hurts the man far more than it does the woman. Women tend to do quite well out of it, which is why marriage is something gold-diggers try to push for as soon as they can.
> 
> ...


Well I wouldn't miss the sex, I'd have more, and although yes it would be galling to lose the house, especially as I work form home and have a cool home office, that is not the reason I've stayed. I'm not bothered about your respect, no offence intended, but I am bothered about my self-respect, and I do need to challenge my wife about her commitment. It's a 2-way contract after all.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Your issues with her (several now) are based on the evidence that she clearly doesn’t respect you.
Why do you continue to stay when she doesn’t respect nor honor you?
Aren’t those vows she took when she married you? 

It’s past time to hand her walking papers if she doesn’t understand how to treat you like her partner and lover instead of a paycheck and servant.
Personally, I’d rather be alone than with someone who mistreats me by being disrespectful.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@DawgFan79 How's it going with you and your wife?


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