# Well That Was a Shock



## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

Well here goes. I just found this site this week and wish that I had found it a month ago, there are some really great and helpful stories here. Warning there is a wall of text below, I tried to be a succinct as possible.

As for mine I am currently separated (her choice) from my wife of 8 years. I was informed of her desire to separate and divorce the day I was returning from an eight month deployment to Afghanistan. I received her request to separate via email while waiting for a plane to return to the states. I was absolutely devastated and surprised by this. 

As for our history This was my fourth deployment while with her and the last time I deployed she cheated on me. I forgave her and we reconciled without a separation. We than moved across the country from the state where she grew up to the east coast. I could tell that she was upset with this but she understood that I didn't have a choice in the matter. Things were fine for awhile and I never again brought up the fact that she cheated on me. When we were again forced to move further south things started to unravel. I was working 50 miles away and was surprised by the fact that I would yet again have to deploy for up to a year (this was my sixth in 12 years). She was upset and we had discussed her moving back to her moms for the duration of the deployment as she had no friends in our immediate area since we had just moved to the area three months before. She eventually decided that she would stay and not move back home. Our relationship became very rocky leading up to my deployment and we finally blew up at each other. I am not a very good communicator and she needs me to be totally open and honest with her at all times to feel emotionally connected. When I was sent across the country for training things came to a head and I finally expressed myself and vowed to work on the communication. This was one month before I was set to leave. When I got back from training it was like we were newlyweds again. We couldn't keep our hands off of each other and I really felt that things were getting better.

My parents never agreed with the fact that W did not have a job. They expressed it often to me and sometimes made off handed comments about it in front of my wife. For a long time I was dumb and didn't say anything because I was stuck between a rock and a hard place. Right before I left my parents came to visit and made some nasty comments to W about not thinking it is fair that she gets to live off of me. I finally had had enough and pulled my parents aside and let them know that they could not talk to my wife like that especially in our home. I didn't do this in front of my wife. So by the time I left I felt that things were continuing to improve and voiced that I was really happy with where I thought our relationship was headed.

While I was deployed our landlord decided he wanted to sell the house and would not renew our lease, so we finally decided she should move back to her moms. She packed up the whole house and put it all in storage aside from some of her hobby items and her computer. On my end having contact for only a few sporadic hours a day things seemed like they were still on the upswing and I was really looking forward to getting home and making our relationship stronger than it had ever been. I had read many self help and relationship books over the eight months and had a huge list of things that I wanted to change and work on within our marriage. My wife and I were in contact almost daily with an opportunity to FaceTime once a week or so. She seemed content and other than having to deal with living at her moms hopeful for my return. The last month of deployment my ability to communicate diminished and we were only able to talk every couple of days.

When I got the news that she wanted to separate I was reeling. I didn't know what to do. I had already found a place for us to rent closer to work, gotten a hotel room and rental car for us until we could get back to her moms to get her car, and had everything in place for our marriage to resume where we had left off. She had a ticket to come in the day after we returned as we didn't know the exact date or time until we left for the states. She had cancelled the ticket before she sent me the email. I told her that I still wanted to see her and that I needed her to come out so we could talk face to face.

She came out two days after my return and I was very excited to see her. When I first saw her all of my depressed feelings melted away until we started talking and I could see how could and indifferent she had become towards me. That night we had a very long discussion, probably the longest since before we were married, and she again stated that if we were to be able to save this marriage separation was the only answer. I was so relieved to just be able to talk to her and be with her and finally really talk to her that I became a yes man and agreed to everything. Separation pending divorce. 

I was fine with all of that for about a day and then she said she had to return to her moms and find a job ( hadn't had one in 7 years) and a new place to live. I was again reeling and felt extremely angry at how fast she decided she needed to leave. Her ticket was for a Saturday and she decided she needed to leave on Thursday instead.

Long story short lots of pain and drinking and smoking and self destruction as I didn't know what to do. After two weeks of that and reconnecting with quite a few old friends and some who had been through a divorce I realized I was only hurting myself and setting down a path that would leave me alone and in AA. While I was on leave I spent some time at my parents house and with old friends and I also made a trip to my in-laws house to see her and our dogs and grab some of my personal things. I told her that I had agreed to all of the separation and divorce things on a whim and that I had realized that I really didn't want a divorce and I didn't want to be separated. She was shocked and told me that she thought that this is what I wanted as well, even though I had expressed that I didn't want this and I had told her that I was reading a lot of divorce busting books. Needless to say I groveled and cried and told her I was sorry for whatever it was I did. She told me that she had been talking to someone else since she had gotten back to her moms. She hasn't met him as far as I know but I know from our phone bill that they talk over 2 hours a day and she even said that it can be something if she lets it.

We are now almost two months into the separation and I have made what I consider major strides in my personal life and I am finally able to tell her how I am really feeling. I have read all of the divorce busting books around 15 times a piece and am really hoping for a reconciliation. She has been sending some extremely mixed signals and I can't decipher what it all means at this point. There have been multiple times that she has prefaced a statement with "IF we get back together", but she is still acting very cold towards me. She still tells me that she loves me and she is always texting me to make sure that I am ok. I don't really understand what it all means and if she is just doing it to satisfy her own needs or if it could lead to reconciliation. 

Last night she texted me and asked about why we weren't more intimate, why we didn't have kids yet, and how could I ever trust her again. I responded in an email to make sure that I got all of my thoughts out in a clear and concise manner and was able to detach myself from the emotion of it all. We talked on the phone about my email for two hours last night and everything seemed really relaxed and upbeat, but this morning she was again very cool and didn't want to talk. 

I know that at some point I may have to try the 180 but as said in divorce busting give any strategy 2 weeks at the minimum to verify its impact. I have been texting her very sweet things for the last 13 days and it seems to me as if she has responded with "there may still be a chance". It's such a confusing process that I don't know if what I am trying has been correct or if I am just disillusioned at this point.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

So let's see... She hadn't worked for years, but you two didn't have kids. Wth did she do with her time? Ever heard "idle hands are the devil's plaything"? Then she had an affair earlier. What did you two do to work through the reasons for that? And now she's having another affair?

So what was your question again? Oh yeah, do you have a chance to fix your marriage... No. Just no. If you're lucky, hell no. Let her go live her life. 

Oddly enough, your best chance at fixing your marriage is to end it. Give her someone to respect, let reality teach her that life isn't as rosy as she hopes, and she might come craving back, at which point you can make a decision. But I'd still recommend hell no. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

Yeah she hadn't worked for 7 years or so. She told me last night that was to spite me. She spent most of her time crocheting and playing the video game that she me the OM in. 

As far as the affair, it was an ONS. She cut off all communication with the OM and we agreed that we would discuss anything that could possibly lead her to cheat again. Like I said before I left things were going amazingly well. After looking at our phone bill for the last month I was gone and couldn't communicate as much that is when she really started talking to this new OM. They have never met%Y0in prson.%0
Yeahs20that's what everyone I know has been saying. It just seems that every time I am ready to start trying the 180 she does something that may or may not mean she is thinking about R. 

Now I'm just trying to figure out if this current thing is working or if its time to do the 180. She recently got a job so maybe that will make it easier not to communicate with her.


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

bro, I'm a military guy too. What your wife did is unsat. you know this to be true. 

You're being strung along as she likes the lifestyle you have provided as well as your tricare benefits. She's got a life insurance policy on you and she's free to roam while you're doing the nation's business. She's taken full advantage of you. She is playing a serious hand of cards to spite you. This woman is dangerous and you still want to play ball? I don't have good words to describe your situation. 

I think you have a case of oneitis, brother. You don't seem to be able to see the forest from the trees. You must think she is the best you can do. This diamond in the rough who treats you like five kinds of shyte. 

Let me tell you I understand what you are going through. I was married to crazy and entitled. 

The 180 is for you to detach and concentrate on getting yourself right. It isn't a game to make you seem mysterious to your wife. That SOMETIMES is a byproduct. I understand about sex 3.0 unfenced relationships. Not a bad concept when both agree to it. I don't think you have, but she has no problems being with other men. Don't be fooled into thinking this latest guy is a phone friend. There is a lot more to it. 

Stop listening to her words, Hoss. Her actions are telling you what she is doing and what she feels about you. She clearly undervalues you and has no respect for you. I think you were destined for better. Yea?

I am not trying to bust your nutz. I am giving you a male outside perspective on what you've written from one military dude to another. 

Here to support.

HL


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

You were on deployment for a year, you come home and she decides separating is the best option to save the marriage? She is having more of an affair than you realize and your making the same mistakes so many of us did. You are listening to her and not seeing what is really going on. 

She is keeping you as plan b and not completely cutting the ties and has no interest in returning to the marriage unless her other options dry up. You can hope for reconciliation all you want its not going to make it happen. Until you know the full story you cant even begin to have that hope for that is the very thing she is abusing you with right now. 

She knows you have hope, she does whatever she pleases because you are the fallback position. She must believe you are done, break off all contact with her and file for divorce. Its not what you want to do emotionally but its what you need to do. She isn’t the prize, you and your life is.


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## movealong (Aug 9, 2013)

So Jody got your girl? The best thing to do is let him have her. Easier said than done, I know. 

As a Corpsman, I can't tell you how many of my Marines got the letter from the GF/Spouse about needing space. They always asked the same question: How much more space does she effing need? I am in the Suck half a world away!

It ain't about the space, at least not distance wise. It is about her wanting her cake and eating it too. Dude, you are not the cake, you are not even the icing. Your the box the cake comes in from the bakery. A nice little package that keeps her financially secure while she eats her cake and feels secure that the box will keep her 'safe'.

You are, at best, plan B right now. There is a famous quote that goes something like this: We are NOT retreating, we are advancing to the rear!

You're up against a force that you are not prepared to combat. Advance to the rear my friend. Regroup, then make a new battle plan.

1. Detach as much and as fast as possible
2. You are not her 'friend', you are her husband, if she is replacing you with a Jody, then you have been relieved of command. Move on.
3. Read, implement, and live the 180
4. Seek IC
5. Talk to your chaplain, one of the medics in your outfit, or some buddies. Ask them what you should do and I bet 90% will say "F her", she deserves to be let go.
6. Get a attorney - the military used to help with that, I am not sure they do anymore.
7. Fake it till you make it - always act/think like you will be alright. Your brain will take that as a 'true' command and start acting accordingly. 

I'd rather be in the Suck than going through my divorce, but since I don't have a choice I am doing my best to implement all the advice I just gave you. Muster up, it is time for a new strategy.


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

Thanks for all of the responses. I am working on getting the sack to do the 180. Sometimes it seems like it will be very easy and sometimes I feel like it's not the right thing to do.

The one thing that I have noticed is when we do talk on the phone she talks to the OM far less. Like from 2 hours a day down to around 20 mins. Not sure if that means anything at all but it seems to me like it means she has less interest in that part of her life when she talks to me.

Thinking back over the last month I do see that i am her plan b currently. She only talks to me when she has no one else to talk to. It does seem like I am her security and i am slowly coming to that realizationa although I'm not sure I have accepted it yet. 

I can't file for divorce yet as in NC you have to be separated for a year before you can file. We have a separation agreement in place so she has given up her right to my retirement and I pay her $500 a month currently.

I'll be starting IC later this week so hopefully that will give the the confidence to do the 180 and focus on myself rather than worry about what she is doing.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

defton519 said:


> Yeah she hadn't worked for 7 years or so. She told me last night that was to spite me.


Wow.

I would have told her to start getting her resume ready.


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

Yeah I did. She looked for a few jobs but I never forced her to get out and follow up.


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## woosaa (Jul 9, 2013)

It is extremely difficult to do the 180 and you will fail at times. With that said you need to try to implement it right now. Coming back from deployment I am sure you had many plans for you and your wife. Do not let that be the reason for wanting her back. Look at her for who she is right now. She is playing you and talking to another man. That is low. You are just an option to her. Do not be just am option. Yes in North Carolina you do need to be separated a year. In this year use it to work on you.

Call military one source to set up counseling. Get with your buddies and do things. Nc has many crossfit gyms, this activity allows you to continue your fitness and learn new skills too. Or head to wilmington/carolina beach. Do constructive things but try to have fun. This is the time to rise up and be the man you want to be. If you are in the bragg area there are many things to do in order to stay healthy and move forward. Please do not be an option.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Feelingsadnlonely (Mar 3, 2014)

First of all, thank you so much for serving our country! 

Second of all, please start doing the 180 ASAP. It will be hard, but you can do it! She has been cheating on you and it makes me so sad and angry that you were out there fighting for our great country and she's back home with NO J-O-B and talking/seeing/thinking about other men! Ugggg!!! 

Forget her, you are way better than this. Be strong and MOVE ON. Show her you can live without her. Someone who truly values you and cherishes you will come along someday. I know so. Hang in there ok and thank you again for your service!


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

So after reading all of these posts I was feeling pretty down and that everything I was doing was wrond. I texted her and let her know I needed her to sign the separation agreement that she had received over a week ago. I also told her that I was feeling like her plan b which sent her over the top with anger.

I have been working through the steps in the Divorce Remedy book and realized a little too late that she had actually already done some of the things that I had written down that would lead to her wanting to reconcile. After talking to a counselor today I realized that even though everyone on this forum is saying the same thing she had texted me about possible reconciliation just not in so many words. 

So now she is mad and will surely sign the papers and send them back to me and I am still reeling over our conversation. Part of me is saying that she will reconcile and wants to come back. I have not really looked at her actions and have just gone off of her words. The fact that she is talking to the OM less when we talk can mean one of two things to me. One she is just feeling guilty after we talk or two she actually wants this to work.

I'm sure that I will get blasted for my latest episode but I feel like I missed her attempts to start the reconciliation process. Not really sure what to do now.

Thank you for the thanks for serving feelingsadnlonely.


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## woosaa (Jul 9, 2013)

You are still willing to be her plan b. You need to bring your self worth up and detach from her bs.

She also knows she has you. This is not attractive and will push her further away. Do not get used by her, start living for YOU. Start getting out of limbo now!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## woosaa (Jul 9, 2013)

Also....take her a$$ off the pedestal
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

One thing I forgot to add about our conversation was the fact that she suggested that we not talk unless it was about money or the separation. Not sure what that means in the overall scheme of things but I found it a little odd.


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## movealong (Aug 9, 2013)

defton519 said:


> One thing I forgot to add about our conversation was the fact that *she suggested that we not talk unless it was about money or the separation*. Not sure what that means in the overall scheme of things but I found it a little odd.


It's called the 180 and detachment. She is letting go and moving on.

This is the time right now -today- when you need to do the same thing. 

It may or may not be over, but if her actions are saying it is, then you have to react accordingly.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Thanks for your service defton519.

The truth is; you're emotionally insecure and you shouldn't be because being with her doesn't define you. You put your life at risk for for the rest of us and you should feel proud of yourself and accept nothing short of having people around you who want to be there. You're selling yourself short when you chase after her IMO and you're projecting a false image of who she is. She's not your partner and teammate anymore. Maybe she never was? In reality you're trying to hold onto something that you didn't really have to begin with or that's been gone for a long time anyway.

Now a lot of army wives can't handle the life. They just don't function well being alone so often. I'm not going to bash on her because at this point, she doesn't matter. She wants out and she's getting out. What matters is that you know that you deserve someone that's a real partner and not someone that has checked out of the marriage.


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

Thanks movealong I will do that today. I will definitely stumble a few times but you are right this is the time.

Thundarr, over the past two months I have realized that I was very codependant. You're right my self worth was in the gutter and I found relief in the bottom of a bottle for a few weeks and then realized that it doesn't help and is not something that will help in the long run. I am slowly starting to learn that our relationship doesn't define me but it is a very slow process. There are quite a few times in the last month that I have had some times of clarity and realized that what she is doing is wrong and that I can't my emotions but I can change the way I let them affect me.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

You must come to the realization that you cant be a mind reader and try to think what she is thinking, guessing as to motives about texts etc. You haven’t missed an opportunity to reconcile because no opportunity has come yet. 

Your attempting to do the same thing many of us did, try to read between the lines. No one single action from you at this point is going to make her come back or drive her away. Right now she wants out of your life and until she says flat out anything different that is the course you must follow like it or not.

You cant hang on the maybes, woulda/coulda/shoulda and other generalities that she is saying. It just keeps you attached and allows her to play this game. The less you deal with her the better off you are now, she must believe that you will get along without her for to realize she may have lost you. 

Once you allow yourself some distance you will see its not her decision to come back.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

defton519 said:


> Thanks movealong I will do that today. I will definitely stumble a few times but you are right this is the time.
> 
> Thundarr, over the past two months I have realized that I was very codependant. You're right my self worth was in the gutter and I found relief in the bottom of a bottle for a few weeks and then realized that it doesn't help and is not something that will help in the long run. I am slowly starting to learn that our relationship doesn't define me but it is a very slow process. There are quite a few times in the last month that I have had some times of clarity and realized that what she is doing is wrong and that I can't my emotions but I can change the way I let them affect me.


Intelligence and emotion bottled up together is an evolutionary cruel joke. You can logically know how you should feel but you can't always make yourself feel that way.

I can only say that I woke one morning about two months into separation and every ounce of worry, weight, and fear was just gone. I finally realized that I didn't have control of anyone but myself. I also realized that she wasn't the perfect mate I conjured in my head. In short, I never had what I thought I was losing to begin with. I had fooled myself and was a little pissed at me. I also realized that my trouble was small compared to someone losing a child or something like that. I was healthy, had a good job, young, etc. So yea I probably projected some of my story in comments to you but it seems similar.


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## movealong (Aug 9, 2013)

Thundarr said:


> Intelligence and emotion bottled up together is an evolutionary cruel joke. You can logically know how you should feel but you can't always make yourself feel that way.


:iagree:

That is a profound statement. LOL


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## Feelingsadnlonely (Mar 3, 2014)

defton519 said:


> One thing I forgot to add about our conversation was the fact that she suggested that we not talk unless it was about money or the separation. Not sure what that means in the overall scheme of things but I found it a little odd.



In other words, she wants to know how much money you'll be giving her because you've been her bank since you married her and she wants to remind you when you speak that you are separated so she can do whatever the heck she wants! 

180 time for reals.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

She didn't work to spite you? Spite you for what? She probably had the ONS for the same reason...

C


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

movealong said:


> :iagree:
> 
> That is a profound statement. LOL


Thanks. I just made it my signature. Now we both have awesome signatures.


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

Thundarr said:


> Intelligence and emotion bottled up together is an evolutionary cruel joke. You can logically know how you should feel but you can't always make yourself feel that way.
> 
> I can only say that I woke one morning about two months into separation and every ounce of worry, weight, and fear was just gone. I finally realized that I didn't have control of anyone but myself. I also realized that she wasn't the perfect mate I conjured in my head. In short, I never had what I thought I was losing to begin with. I had fooled myself and was a little pissed at me. I also realized that my trouble was small compared to someone losing a child or something like that. I was healthy, had a good job, young, etc. So yea I probably projected some of my story in comments to you but it seems similar.



Yeah it does seem like quite the cruel joke. I hope that someday I will wake up and have those exact same feelings. I do realize already that she wasn't perfect but I know that I wasn't perfect either. I think I am still sensationalizing the way our relationship was and how "good" it actually was.


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

Feelingsadnlonely said:


> In other words, she wants to know how much money you'll be giving her because you've been her bank since you married her and she wants to remind you when you speak that you are separated so she can do whatever the heck she wants!
> 
> 180 time for reals.


Yeah that sounds about right. It does feel that way. It's hard for me to see that I am being manipulated because I am a very trusting person by nature and I don't know how to be manipulative so I don't understand it.


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

PBear said:


> She didn't work to spite you? Spite you for what? She probably had the ONS for the same reason...
> 
> C


Well that was always the biggest point of contention between her and my parents. She said that she didn't get a job because it's what they wanted and she didn't want to be manipulated. HA!! Irony


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## mk50 (Jan 24, 2014)

Defton your situation is so similar to mine its scary. I am always thinking that there is hope because I listen to her words even though time and time again she has proven to me she lies. I am desperatly hoping for reconciliation but know the longer we are seperated and the longer she keeps looking for something she feels is missing, the harder it will be to R. I have been trying to implement my own 180 but still have to talk to her regarding kids etc. We had an initial 6 month agreement in which all finances are kept together and for some reason I am choosing to honor that, mainly because it makes paying off our debt easier. I know I stress her out when I ask what she bought here and there. I hope that both of us wake up one morning and realize that we are the safety nets, and in truth I look at her as my safety net also because the marriage was comfortable. Good luck brother


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

mk50 said:


> Defton your situation is so similar to mine its scary. I am always thinking that there is hope because I listen to her words even though time and time again she has proven to me she lies. I am desperatly hoping for reconciliation but know the longer we are seperated and the longer she keeps looking for something she feels is missing, the harder it will be to R. I have been trying to implement my own 180 but still have to talk to her regarding kids etc. We had an initial 6 month agreement in which all finances are kept together and for some reason I am choosing to honor that, mainly because it makes paying off our debt easier. I know I stress her out when I ask what she bought here and there. I hope that both of us wake up one morning and realize that we are the safety nets, and in truth I look at her as my safety net also because the marriage was comfortable. Good luck brother


Yeah that is definitely the same place I am at right now but we don't have kids so there is no pressing need to talk. I have all of the bills and since she has no job, I pay all of them. Per our separation agreement (which she still has not signed) she will pay whatever bills she racked up while I was deployed. Its somewhere around $4500. I totally stopped asking what she buys because it doesn't matter to me what she spends the money I give her on, but it does make me laugh when she has it all spent and none saved in 3 days.

Last night she called and I didn't answer. She left a message saying that she only rarely texted the OM and they hardly ever talked. I texted her and let her know that I get the phone bill and called her on her BS. She apoligized for the fact that her talking to OM hurt me but didn't apoligize for the blatent lie. I'm glad that I am starting the 180. It has made things a little more clear and I am starting to see through her manipulative tactics.


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## Sammy64 (Oct 28, 2013)

She apoligized for the fact that her talking to OM hurt me but *didn't apoligize for the blatent lie*. I'm glad that I am starting the 180. It has made things a little more clear and I am starting to see through her manipulative tactics.[/QUOTE]

Its hard when we loved someone to see them in a differnt light, but once i found out what my STBXW had done to US/me, I could not wrap my head around it, i had to do the 180 for myself. Life is better with out her, and she knows it.. i get strange txts from her that i dont even respond to. Trying to drag me back into that freaking mess... No Way!!


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

Defton,
What you need to do is this:
Take a pad of paper and write down evrything she has DONE since this began. Dont include things like she "said this". The real answer is in her behavior.
Seriously, take out any words between you and list what she has DONE.
This will make it infinitely clear where your marriage has gone and is going. IT will also make it much easier to do the 180.

My ex pulled this wishy washy crap all through our separation. IT took a lot to pull myself out of it because I was second guessing everything and getting confused with her words. You KNOW she is already not truthful with you, so do this little exercise and watch the pattern.

Yes, Corp life is not for everyone. 
The corp is hard on marriages, but you want someone who will be loyal to you. 
She is obviously not.

Time to 180 for real and not look back.


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

SamuraiJack said:


> Defton,
> What you need to do is this:
> Take a pad of paper and write down evrything she has DONE since this began. Dont include things like she "said this". The real answer is in her behavior.
> Seriously, take out any words between you and list what she has DONE.
> ...


Thanks for the advice. I actually started doing that yesterday and it has made it a little easier to deal with starting the 180. She keeps saying that we havent been friends in a long time and we need to do that before we can even think about getting back together. Her actions are totally different in that she only contacts me when she is feeling down or lonely. 

The list I started has corolated her actions to what she has been saying and it definitely tells the whole story. She is deep in an EA with the OM and only uses me to be her backup support.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

The bottom line is if she thinks happiness is who she's with instead of who she is then she's destined to cheat and leave no matter who you are. And if that doesn't change then she'll do the same thing to the next guy once the new wears off. Only then will she look back and know that she left something special now. But you can't make her learn it. You can learn it for yourself though.

I think that's a big part of the high divorce rates. So few feel complete without a partner. Two happy, content people by them selves can come together and make something special but that's about the only way IMO.


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

Thundarr said:


> The bottom line is if she thinks happiness is who she's with instead of who she is then she's destined to cheat and leave no matter who you are. And if that doesn't change then she'll do the same thing to the next guy once the new wears off. Only then will she look back and know that she left something special now. But you can't make her learn it. You can learn it for yourself though.
> 
> I think that's a big part of the high divorce rates. So few feel complete without a partner. Two happy, content people by them selves can come together and make something special but that's about the only way IMO.


Yeah I can see exactly where you are coming from. I talked to her this morning like an idiot and let her start to suck me back in. After completing the what she has done list I can see now that she couldn't care less about my feeling even though she has said that she does. It's all starting to make a lot more sense and I am really starting to see through her BS. She did finally admit that she is having an EA with the OM though. About time. Not that I should care anymore anyway. Have to work pretty hard on that one.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You have a separation agreement that she refuses to sign while you pay her $500 dollars a month. That's not a lot of money, but nonetheless it is essential for her day to day life. I would just stop paying it until she follows through.

Does she have access to any joint accounts?

The military must have counseling for both of you. You should be IC for her and yourself.

Don't talk to her or communicate anything.

How long did you agree to pay alimony for?

re: smoking and drinking
Does do either?

Quitting those two habits could be an important way to change how you feel about yourself. Train hard in the gym.

OM is somewhere else so she cannot have sex with him right now, except via webcam. Correct?


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> You have a separation agreement that she refuses to sign while you pay her $500 dollars a month. That's not a lot of money, but nonetheless it is essential for her day to day life. I would just stop paying it until she follows through.
> 
> Does she have access to any joint accounts?
> 
> ...


She has access to 1 joint account but I only put $250 in there each paycheck and I dont use it at all. I have my own separate account and she has her own. I need to remove her from it so she can't do anything stupid with it, or remove myself.

I have talked to the unit counselor and have an appointment to start IC on the 23rd. I think it will be really great for me.

Yeah I know that I need to not communicate anything I am doing and I'm sure that it will be extremely hard but after hearing that she is having an EA after she had a ONS four years ago I'm gonna write it all down and when I'm feeling weak I'll just have to reread it.

I haven't made any agreements on alimony yet as that will go in the divorce papers and not the separation agreement that the military lawyers drafted.

I have been smoking quite a bit but it has been hurting my running which I just picked up again last week so I have started to cut back and have an e-cig for when i am closer to being ready to quit. As far as drinking, I have 1 a night with dinner and no more. I was drinking half a bottle when I first returned home and that was not good for me. Any more than 1 drink and I can't control my emotions.

OM is in Montana and she is in CA. So for now its just an EA. Whether it becomes a PA doesn't really matter to me anymore and I can't let her actions dictate my own.


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## U.E. McGill (Nov 27, 2013)

Keep this in mind when dealing with her. 

Women communicate emotion, men content. So she's telling you what she feels, often it's not congruent with the truth. The take away is always judge her by her actions. 

Her actions say "she's gone".


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

U.E. McGill said:


> Keep this in mind when dealing with her.
> 
> Women communicate emotion, men content. So she's telling you what she feels, often it's not congruent with the truth. The take away is always judge her by her actions.
> 
> Her actions say "she's gone".


Yeah that is one thing that I am really working on. I made a list of actions and a list of words and I can clearly see where she really is by her actions. It will be good to keep the list on me and in my separation journal so I can remember why I shouldn't care about her.


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> I can only say that I woke one morning about two months into separation and every ounce of worry, weight, and fear was just gone. I finally realized that I didn't have control of anyone but myself. I also realized that she wasn't the perfect mate I conjured in my head. In short, I never had what I thought I was losing to begin with. I had fooled myself and was a little pissed at me. I also realized that my trouble was small compared to someone losing a child or something like that. ....


This is the realization that makes people turn the corner from despair. Very good.


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

Wow she is really good at this manipulation thing. She sent me a long text this afternoon saying that she loves me and was just scared and talking to the OM keeps her thoughts off of our situation and that she is sad that she can see I have changed and wishes she had stayed to see that. WOW just wow. I'm glad that I am starting to see the forest for the trees because I would definitely have been a lot more messed up right now. I am not going to respond at all because it's just her trying to manipulate me into talking to her and sucking me into the place she wants me, her friend and plan b. Not having any of that crap!


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

See an attorney very soon. I am not sure what service you are in, but in most cases the military provided legal assistance lawyers do not do divorce consults. You need a lawyer to educate you about the process in your state and what the next step is. You need a lawyer to give you a legal opinion on if the money you are giving to your estranged wife is sufficient or too much based on the circumstances. I'm glad you're going to counseling. Make sure your supervisor knows you are having some marital problems as you may need some appointments during working hours. This separation/divorce will use a considerable amount of your mental bandwidth too. It's hard to concentrate on the job when your mind is wandering about your situation. Your supervisor should be aware.

See a lawyer.


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

helolover said:


> See an attorney very soon. I am not sure what service you are in, but in most cases the military provided legal assistance lawyers do not do divorce consults. You need a lawyer to educate you about the process in your state and what the next step is. You need a lawyer to give you a legal opinion on if the money you are giving to your estranged wife is sufficient or too much based on the circumstances. I'm glad you're going to counseling. Make sure your supervisor knows you are having some marital problems as you may need some appointments during working hours. This separation/divorce will use a considerable amount of your mental bandwidth too. It's hard to concentrate on the job when your mind is wandering about your situation. Your supervisor should be aware.
> 
> See a lawyer.



Yeah I'm going to talk to one of the lawyers on base when I finally get the notorized separation agreement as I have to give them a copy anyway. I know that I can't do anything as far as filing until we have been separated for 11 months and it won't be final until one year after separation. 

As far as the pay goes it is in our separation agreement that I will pay her $500 amount every month. I know that the document will protect me in case she goes for more but the CO can only order me to pay up to half of my housing allowance which is around $700 . She starts a job soon so she will be fine off of $500 and unless ordered I won't go higher. Her mom is also giving her money as she is pretty well off.

If I notcie things starting to turn sour and her asking for more I will immediately talk to a lawyer out in town.

Yeah I told everyone above me my current circumstances before I even came back to this unit so they are all aware of what is going on and that I may have to leave during working hours to deal with things. My boss has been very good about letting me do what I need to do.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Are you friends on Facebook?

Block her and remove all her family.

Does she smoke? It reduces vaginal lubrication and fertility. When you think of her imagine how she is going age prematurely. Picture the frown and worry lines on her face. 

You are going for a better woman.

Sometimes R makes sense but you haven't provided much to grace her in anyone's eyes.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> Are you friends on Facebook?
> 
> Block her and remove all her family.
> 
> ...


I unfriended all of her family and blocked her this morning so that part is taken care of. 

She doesn't smoke or drink at all.

Yeah I'm definitely not ready to search for a better woman at this point but I know that there is one out there that is better than her.

Yeah it may make sense someday but she is going to have to change a lot and I just don't see that happening. It's all good I just have to keep reminding myself that I am not the bad guy and this is what I have to do for me!


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

So day one of the 180 went pretty well. I didn't think about her or what she was doing and I was actually happy and content for the first time since she left. It's amazing how seeing through all of the lies has changed the way I feel about her and the way I am thinking. I know there will be bad days in the future but as long as I keep reminding myself what she really is I know that I can keep with this.


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## U.E. McGill (Nov 27, 2013)

Have faith in it. There's plenty of success stories on this site. Conversely theirs several threads where people do everything wrong and you can watch from afar the agony. 

It sucks. You'll be a better man on the other side.

Embrace the suck.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Go NC on her except for necessary communication. Keep to email.


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

Well yesterday was a great day and i was feeling a lot better than I had in months, until she emailed me. She said all sorts of crap about sorry this sorry that, none of which I believe. She ended it with well if you want to get divorced than fine, I'll file this week. Well for one thing she knows I don't want this but she still got me again. I don't want her to file in CA because I will get totally screwed but I also don't want her to file at all. SO I called her like an idiot and told her that, and then went dark again. I just have to keep reminding myself she is not the person I married. She is the faceless enemy and must be dealt with accordingly. I have to find a way to get past her lies and manipulations that will work even when I am in a weak place. If at first you don't succeed try try again as they say.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Clearly you should file first in the jurisdiction that favors you. Filing for divorce before her actually increases the chances of reconciliation from very slim to slim.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

We all have weak moments, the trick is to reconginze them and get yourself back in a good spot as quickly as you can. Always remember she knows all your weak points, what will push your buttons. 

Longwalk is correct in that you filing will increase your chances even if it’s a slim chance. You need to get the power dynamic back on your side. Take the power of her threats of divorce out of her hands. Since you are in the military you might want to check with them about what jurisdiction you can actually file in. Each state has its own residency requirements and I am sure that military personel have some guidelines since your legal residence is very dependent your military orders than by choice of where to live.


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

Wow this is so counter intuitive. Well I have gotten that same advice from a few friends as well. I should be able to file in CO which is my home state since it is listed as my home of record. I will look into and see what I can find out.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Bottom line, you were gone a year. She should have been dying from anticipation when you got home. What really happened was she couldn't wait to get away from you. New boyfriend and no telling if there were any more.

Good luck, and do not look back.


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

Chaparral said:


> Bottom line, you were gone a year. She should have been dying from anticipation when you got home. What really happened was she couldn't wait to get away from you. New boyfriend and no telling if there were any more.
> 
> Good luck, and do not look back.


Yeah that's what I was thinking. She said she was just scared that things would be bad and she would become depressed again. Her actions speak otherwise though.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

defton519 said:


> Yeah that's what I was thinking. She said she was just scared that things would be bad and she would become depressed again. Her actions speak otherwise though.


Actions....Look at the actions.
Words can be twisted and used against you.
Actions are concrete.


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

SamuraiJack said:


> Actions....Look at the actions.
> Words can be twisted and used against you.
> Actions are concrete.


Yeah I'm working on looking at her actions very hard during the times that I am feeling down. It is still very hard to do that but I can only take it one day at a time and keep working on myself. I should find out this week what I need to do to file for divorce in CO so that should make some of this a little easier. I'm going to write her a letter and try to get it to her the day the papers make it to her house, letting her know that this isn't what I want but it is obviously what she wants.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

defton519 said:


> Yeah I'm working on looking at her actions very hard during the times that I am feeling down. It is still very hard to do that but I can only take it one day at a time and keep working on myself. I should find out this week what I need to do to file for divorce in CO so that should make some of this a little easier. I'm going to write her a letter and try to get it to her the day the papers make it to her house, letting her know that this isn't what I want but it is obviously what she wants.


No.
Dont even bother. Just have the court send her the papers. If you mail her a lettewr, you lose what ever advantage you gained by filing first. 
Just let her get the nes and react however she does.
She will most likely show you her true colors then.

A letter just makes you look needy...again.
Not a 180.


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

SamuraiJack said:


> No.
> Dont even bother. Just have the court send her the papers. If you mail her a lettewr, you lose what ever advantage you gained by filing first.
> Just let her get the nes and react however she does.
> She will most likely show you her true colors then.
> ...


Ok so I just let her get served and then what? Do I talk to her or just let it be? My guess is that she will go high and to the right and blow up my phone and email until I respond.

Another thing I have been thinking very hard about is the fact I hadn't really been talking to her or opening up in the first place, so is not communicating really a 180? Just something I have been thinking about. I do feel a lot better when I don't talk to her but it is also extremely hard for me to do even when i remind myself that actions speak louder than words.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

defton519 said:


> Ok so I just let her get served and then what? Do I talk to her or just let it be? My guess is that she will go high and to the right and blow up my phone and email until I respond.
> 
> Another thing I have been thinking very hard about is the fact I hadn't really been talking to her or opening up in the first place, so is not communicating really a 180? Just something I have been thinking about. I do feel a lot better when I don't talk to her but it is also extremely hard for me to do even when i remind myself that actions speak louder than words.


Exactly. Let her go ballistic and show you what she is really made of. Then dont buy into it at all. I mean AT ALL. 
Take care of yourself and let her figure out whats what.
She is going to bombard you with words due to her own personal issues. As you have seen, they mean nothing or at least dont always mean what you think they do. 
Block out the words and look at her actions.

She can react in whatever way she chooses or does not choose.
It's time for you to stop being her doormat and to let your actions speak for you. :smthumbup:

Reme,ber that you arent doing this to get a rise out of her. You are doing this as a means to take back some control of the situation and to demonstrate that you are going to take care of yourself.
You are protecting yourself as any healthy human being would.


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

SamuraiJack said:


> Exactly. Let her go ballistic and show you what she is really made of. Then dont buy into it at all. I mean AT ALL.
> Take care of yourself and let her figure out whats what.
> She is going to bombard you with words due to her own personal issues. As you have seen, they mean nothing or at least dont always mean what you think they do.
> Block out the words and look at her actions.
> ...


Well that sounds like a plan. I'm pretty sure I will see her true colors come out and what she really wants as shown by her actions through her words at that point. I'm really not looking forward to really having to ignore all she is saying. I will definitely have to find something to keep me busy in the following weeks.

Yeah you have a good point with the doormat statement. This is going to be an interessting few months. I think it will be around 90 days to finalize. 

I'm definitely going to copy your post so I can remind myself of what I have to do. Thanks for the great advice!


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

defton519 said:


> Well that sounds like a plan. I'm pretty sure I will see her true colors come out and what she really wants as shown by her actions through her words at that point. I'm really not looking forward to really having to ignore all she is saying. I will definitely have to find something to keep me busy in the following weeks.
> 
> Yeah you have a good point with the doormat statement. This is going to be an interessting few months. I think it will be around 90 days to finalize.
> 
> I'm definitely going to copy your post so I can remind myself of what I have to do. Thanks for the great advice!


Just remember that as you ignore her, she will escalate the game to get your attention. She may pull several different emotionally loaded phrases out and blast you with them.

Do yourself a favor and make a filter for her email. Set it so it DOESNT notify you with ne email or just stores the email as "Read". That way you can choose when YOU want to look at her replies. ( I only figured this out a while ago...so please have the blessing of my hard won knowledge!)

Rules around FaceBook, Social Media and Email.

1. Had anything to drink? NO Facebook, social media or Email. Period.

2. Late at night? See rule 1.

3. Lonely? Speak with anybody but her. ANYBODY.

4. Make it work for YOU. Block her and all her friends. Maintain your friends and try not to post anything negative. IT will only serve to make you look weak and give her an ego boost.

5. No matter what she SAYS, look at her ACTIONS to guide you.

6. Its better to watch a re-run of a sit-com than to check your email. As the night gets later, this rule should apply even harder.

7. As the urge to check email gets harder to resist...go drink a glass of icewater. Seriously...all this taking care of yourself probably has you dehydrated.

8. Did you slip? Check that email late at night? Go back to the 180 as soon as you can. if she asks about it just say "I made a mistake. My apologies." NOTHING MORE.

9. She looks like she is showing signs of cracking! To what end?
Look at your list of actions again. Read that list again.

10. NOTHING good ever comes from posting or emailing after 8PM. Cut yourself off after 8PM unless you are chatting with a supportive friend. If you insist on being on line, then stay away from your email. Browse for duck decoys or whatever...maybe find a new hobby.
Part of protecting yourself from possible incursions is NOT being in the crosshairs at the right times.

This is what worked for me.
You may need to change it up a bit..


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

SamuraiJack said:


> Just remember that as you ignore her, she will escalate the game to get your attention. She may pull several different emotionally loaded phrases out and blast you with them.
> 
> Do yourself a favor and make a filter for her email. Set it so it DOESNT notify you with ne email or just stores the email as "Read". That way you can choose when YOU want to look at her replies. ( I only figured this out a while ago...so please have the blessing of my hard won knowledge!)
> 
> ...


Yeah I have already removed and blocked her and all of her family members from my FB so no issues there. 

I am definitely expecting a lot of charecter assassination attempts from her and a lot of very emotionally loaded texts and emails. So I know what my desired outcome of all of this is but when do I actually engage her at all? We have already talked about deviding marital goods and accounts and it is all laid out in the (still unsigned by her) separation agreement. I understand that this is giving me the power and control and that it is what I need to do for myself despite what the outcome is but when do I need to talk to her? I know there are quite a few things that I need to avoid talking to her about, feelings, what I am doing etc. but I'm not sure when I should actually respond to her. Any guidance or ideas would help. 

Thanks for all of the insight SamuraiJack.


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## Stretch (Dec 12, 2012)

D,

Thank you for your service to our country!!!

Keep up the NC, each contact will set you back a little on your healing so discipline is key.

This is going to sound crazy but there are stranger things here on TAM than you can imagine. Friend, I had a thought that one of the reasons your stbxw was asking about having kids is that she might already be pregnant from another dude and looking for a way to get you to foot the bill if she bangs you and then claims it is your kid. Less distressing, she probably found out that she did not like working and is going to do anything to get you to support her so she does not have to work.

Be careful,
Stretch


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

You are welcome. I took me a bit to pull this around my head so Im happy somebody else can benefit.

When to engage?

Well I would say you need to treat like a tactical decision.
Your goal , seems to me, is to procure seperation/divorce from her and preserve yourself and your assets.

So you have to ask yourself each time you are tempted to engage "Am I doing this further my goal or am I responding with my hurt emotions?"
It will come off as a bit cold, but the less emotion you place in your emails will give her less to feed off...and less to react to.

If it's not around the separation and divorce...DONT engage.
( or try not to...Lord knows I stepped in enough bear traps trying to figure my way through this. I wish I had found TAM in the beginning..)


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

SamuraiJack said:


> You are welcome. I took me a bit to pull this around my head so Im happy somebody else can benefit.
> 
> When to engage?
> 
> ...


My goal is actually to R, as dumb and as crazy as it sounds I think that this thing can be saved but she does not. I am attempting to make her uncomfortable in our current situation and snap her out of the fog of an EA. 

I am at a place where I know that I will be fine with whatever she decides and I know that I will be in a better place either way in fact I am under the assumption right now that this will be a D and I am perfectly fine with that and have already started making plans for post D. I am continuing to work on myself and realize that there is more out there for me than just her. I know that I deserve more than she is giving me right now but I am also of the opinion that divorce rarely solves whatever the actual problem is and as a man of my word I took our vows extremely seriously. I expected the same but obviously it is a forgone conclusion that she did not see vows the same way I do. 

So in light of that I'm KNOW that your advice is still sound and I will not engage unless it is about the separation/divorce.

One thing I didn't add to the original post is that I want to see her reaction and then decide from there if I want to pursue R or just let the D happen.


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

Another thought I had as far as her reaction is it will show me that I am doing the right thing and moving on for myself. My expectation is that she will fight and fight and fight but not for us for her so she doesn't feel guilty anymore. When I just sit down and think about it all it feels like there is something missing to complete the picture of her and I think this is what it is. For once I think her words and actions will corellate and It will show me just how toxic and imperfect she is. Sounds really odd and like a step back but I think it will push me to realize all that I have been thinking for the past month or so.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

defton519 said:


> Another thought I had as far as her reaction is it will show me that I am doing the right thing and moving on for myself. My expectation is that she will fight and fight and fight but not for us for her so she doesn't feel guilty anymore. When I just sit down and think about it all it feels like there is something missing to complete the picture of her and I think this is what it is. For once I think her words and actions will corellate and It will show me just how toxic and imperfect she is. Sounds really odd and like a step back but I think it will push me to realize all that I have been thinking for the past month or so.


Ahhh.. you really want an R?
Then stay the course with one minor change. 
You must develop some finely tuned BS detectors.
You are right in recognizing that she will fight to avoid guilt. Its when she seriously starts to vocalize about "us" in a truely serious way that you can entertain the thought of engagement.

The problem is that you have to be certain she is ready to recommit 100%. The wishy washy stuff must not be engaged.
She has to commit and to do that she will need to use words...which havent been stable in the past.

Catch-22.

Your "knowing" will guide you through this. Right now, continue with the plan. Try not to deviate and it just MAY work.

I hope you get what you are after.
I thought I was after R. 
Turns out I am much happier with my new life.

Its not all wine and roses, but it's MINE...


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

SamuraiJack said:


> Ahhh.. you really want an R?
> Then stay the course with one minor change.
> You must develop some finely tuned BS detectors.
> You are right in recognizing that she will fight to avoid guilt. Its when she seriously starts to vocalize about "us" in a truely serious way that you can entertain the thought of engagement.
> ...


Yeah that is what I want for now. I may be totally surprised and realize that her words are finally aligned with her actions and I have just been played. 

Yeah as far as the BS detection I have been getting a lot better at doing it retrospectivly now I just have to tune it a little further and be able to discern the BS "in the moment".

Yeah I think the hardest part will be being able to tell when she is 100% in it to win it and when she isn't. 

I hope so too, but whichever way it ends up I am a better person and if she doesn't want me she never deserved me in the first place! 

Now I just have to figure out if I can actually file in my home state without being a physical resident. Should find out today or tomorrow.

Thanks for the advice Samurai


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

As Samurai said, don’t bother with the personal letter, it will just make you look needy and no matter how well written or how thoughtful it may be it will just get twisted around. Most of us write “the letter” so your not alone in that thinking but it just wont get anywhere. 

You cant worry about her reaction if/when she gets served. Yes she could very well blow up your phone, she could say nothing. You are in this situation because she is unwilling to address the issues in the marriage. Your not doing to this to get her attention, your doing this to show her the situation as it stands is unacceptable and YOUR life needs to go on and she is choosing not to be a part of it. 

Your desired outcome of this situation is you end up with a good/happy life. Lots of people get what they think they want, R, and realize later, well they didn’t achieve the prize. Doing the 180, not putting too much thought into her texts, emails, rants will help you detect more on what is BS and what isn’t. 

Really for the woulda/coulda and planning it all comes down to either “lets sit down and really talk” or “lets get divorced” and the bulk of that cant be fixed in either emails, texts, facebook or phone calls.


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

honcho said:


> As Samurai said, don’t bother with the personal letter, it will just make you look needy and no matter how well written or how thoughtful it may be it will just get twisted around. Most of us write “the letter” so your not alone in that thinking but it just wont get anywhere.
> 
> You cant worry about her reaction if/when she gets served. Yes she could very well blow up your phone, she could say nothing. You are in this situation because she is unwilling to address the issues in the marriage. Your not doing to this to get her attention, your doing this to show her the situation as it stands is unacceptable and YOUR life needs to go on and she is choosing not to be a part of it.
> 
> ...


Ok I will avoid that and not send it to her. I may not be able to file until the year of separation is up anyway based on the limited research I have done so far. Unfortunately she will be able to file since she is currently living in CA. Not a good position for me to be in at all.

Yeah that is the ultimate goal for everyone as far as I know. You may be right and what I think I want and what it will actually take to get that are two different things. I could end up with an R and absolutely hate the fact that I did it. At this point I have written down what it would take on her part , my part, and what I would actually want things to look like for the first 6 months. If it all goes to crap than we just tell the court that R didn't work, go back to our original separation date and divorce. 

Thanks for the sanity check Honcho. Lots of new things to think about.

On a side note I'm back to the 180 and it is going pretty well. I had to talk to her yesterday because she is supposed to send my computer out here and still hasn't. Other than that no communication at all. I'm starting to feel better again. I still have weak moments but all in all I'm not really thinking about her or worrying what she is doing.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

“At this point I have written down what it would take on her part , my part, and what I would actually want things to look like for the first 6 months.”

You can plan and scheme all you want and we all have done this too. Until you know the true and full story and have a real idea what you are up against its impossible to plan. I think guys especially are planners this way. The great weakness in our plans is we have no idea how the “wildcard”, her will deal or react. 

If/when you get a chance to talk an atty about jurisdictions etc, I do think you would have your year of separation covered already since you have been on deployment. It’s a good question to ask.


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

honcho said:


> “At this point I have written down what it would take on her part , my part, and what I would actually want things to look like for the first 6 months.”
> 
> You can plan and scheme all you want and we all have done this too. Until you know the true and full story and have a real idea what you are up against its impossible to plan. I think guys especially are planners this way. The great weakness in our plans is we have no idea how the “wildcard”, her will deal or react.
> 
> If/when you get a chance to talk an atty about jurisdictions etc, I do think you would have your year of separation covered already since you have been on deployment. It’s a good question to ask.


Yeah that part was specifically if we decide to reconcile. Obviously I can't make that list on my own but I can at least express my expectations if we move forward.

Yeah I had thought about that already as well and looking into it most states (the ones I can file in) will not accept that as separation time unless we had decided to separate prior to the deployment. I'm talking to a lawyer next Monday though so we shall see where it all falls out. If I can use the deployment time that would be great but I'm not going to bet on it.

Another huge issue is the fact that she is in CA and has been there for over 90 days thus meeting the residency requirements. That could be really bad for me if she files there and I am definitely going to do all I can to avoid that. Not that there is much I can do at all.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

I think for CA you must be a resident for 6 months and lived in the county you are filing in for 3 months. She can file for a legal separation earlier but it cant be converted to a divorce hearing till the criteria are met.

This is just another reason why you finding good legal council is important so you know for sure because her buying time right now could very well be just working to her advantage.


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

honcho said:


> I think for CA you must be a resident for 6 months and lived in the county you are filing in for 3 months. She can file for a legal separation earlier but it cant be converted to a divorce hearing till the criteria are met.
> 
> This is just another reason why you finding good legal council is important so you know for sure because her buying time right now could very well be just working to her advantage.


Yeah she has been there since December so she meets them both and she won't have to file for separation first. That is why I am so worried.

Yeah that's why I have an appointment for one in CO. I may have to find one out here as well but I don't know how much good it would do since they can't circumvent the 12 month separation thing. I think if the CO thing falls through Ill have to get one out here though.


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

So since I started the 180 she has been calling everyday and texting at least twice a day. We have had to actually discuss some things but she really isn't getting the no contact thing. Like yesterday she finally sent my computer and I had to transfer money to pay for it. She called and I didn't answer and she said "Are you seriously screening my calls?" Uhhh yeah thats what this whole no contact thing is.

The good news is that the computer is sent so there is pretty much nothing to talk about with her for the forseable future. Just gotta keep on the 180 until I can actually file for divorce. Everyday is a little different but I have noticed that I don't miss talking to her and I'm not just sitting around waiting for her to text or call. It feels pretty nice to finally feel a little control over all of this and liberated. I'm sure I will still have days where I just feel like crap and want to call her but I know that I will be able to resist that urge. I have started to find other things to do with my time and it helps that I have a ton of stuff to unpack still and I started running again.

All in all things are getting better everyday.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

defton519 said:


> So since I started the 180 she has been calling everyday and texting at least twice a day. We have had to actually discuss some things but she really isn't getting the no contact thing. Like yesterday she finally sent my computer and I had to transfer money to pay for it. She called and I didn't answer and she said "Are you seriously screening my calls?" Uhhh yeah thats what this whole no contact thing is.
> 
> The good news is that the computer is sent so there is pretty much nothing to talk about with her for the forseable future. Just gotta keep on the 180 until I can actually file for divorce. Everyday is a little different but I have noticed that I don't miss talking to her and I'm not just sitting around waiting for her to text or call. It feels pretty nice to finally feel a little control over all of this and liberated. I'm sure I will still have days where I just feel like crap and want to call her but I know that I will be able to resist that urge. I have started to find other things to do with my time and it helps that I have a ton of stuff to unpack still and I started running again.
> 
> All in all things are getting better everyday.


You have to keep with it and stay focused on not focusing on her. Running is very good for that. 
Yeah, you WILL have your days, but this is the best way to show her the gravity of the situation.

Let her steep in a tea of "missing you" and we shall see what happens...

Thinking good thoughts for you.


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

SamuraiJack said:


> You have to keep with it and stay focused on not focusing on her. Running is very good for that.
> Yeah, you WILL have your days, but this is the best way to show her the gravity of the situation.
> 
> Let her steep in a tea of "missing you" and we shall see what happens...
> ...


Yeah that's what I am really concentrating on right now. Trying to get myself right with the job and friends and being healthier. 

It may start to sink in for her and I'm hoping it does but at this point I am working on making my life better and more independent and just living for me.

Thanks for the response Samurai it's always good to have support that what I am doing is the right thing no matter the outcome.


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

So the last two days have been alright. No calls or texts from her at all which has been good. I have been very anxious about what the lawyer will say and that has been keeping me up until usually 2-3 in the morning. I know that there is nothing I can do to affect the outcome of the meeting with the lawyer and there is no reason to be anxious about it, but for some reason it is still keeping me up at night.

One thing this has taught me though is how very important sleep is to this recovery process. I have found that it is extremely hard for me to run as fast as I should be running and I'm not able to make decisions as quickly. I hope that she doesn't contact me since I don't know if I'll be strong enough to not talk to her right now. 

I'm pretty excited about my IC appointment on Monday though and I'm hoping that I will be able to let go of this anxiety since I am the one creating it anyway.


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## movealong (Aug 9, 2013)

It may sound hokey, but I went to youtube and typed in "positive affirmations" and found some videos that helped me relax enough to go to sleep. There are a few under "healing affirmations" that worked, too.

I would start the video, then cover the screen to block the light, and lay down and let the sounds and voice of the commentator envelope me. It may or may not work for you, but it did help to stop my mind from racing and allow me to fall asleep listening to it.


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

movealong said:


> It may sound hokey, but I went to youtube and typed in "positive affirmations" and found some videos that helped me relax enough to go to sleep. There are a few under "healing affirmations" that worked, too.
> 
> I would start the video, then cover the screen to block the light, and lay down and let the sounds and voice of the commentator envelope me. It may or may not work for you, but it did help to stop my mind from racing and allow me to fall asleep listening to it.


I will definitely give that a try because this no sleeping thing is not doing me any good at all. Thanks for the advice. I'll let you know how it works out.


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## tdwal (Jul 28, 2012)

defton519 said:


> So the last two days have been alright. No calls or texts from her at all which has been good. I have been very anxious about what the lawyer will say and that has been keeping me up until usually 2-3 in the morning. I know that there is nothing I can do to affect the outcome of the meeting with the lawyer and there is no reason to be anxious about it, but for some reason it is still keeping me up at night.
> 
> One thing this has taught me though is how very important sleep is to this recovery process. I have found that it is extremely hard for me to run as fast as I should be running and I'm not able to make decisions as quickly. I hope that she doesn't contact me since I don't know if I'll be strong enough to not talk to her right now.
> 
> I'm pretty excited about my IC appointment on Monday though and I'm hoping that I will be able to let go of this anxiety since I am the one creating it anyway.


You can try the hypnosis sleep youtubes they work very well.


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

So yesterday I found out that I will not be able to file for divorce in CO. I called the law office in CA and they wil not be able to help me either, so I pretty much just have to wait the separation out. 

The NC is going well. My wife emailed me about some finance stuff and debt distribution for post divorce. I have been able to not email her back yet and I think I will just take my time getting back to her on it all. She's be texting everyday asking about it but I'm staying strong and taking my time. She made me wait for a month to tell me what she thought needed to be changed in the agreement so now she can wait.

Had my first IC session yesterday which went pretty well. It felt good to get everything out there and be able to explain to the counselor that I want to work on me and get to the point where I am goo to move on with or without my wife. Still having good days and bad but the good days are starting to happen more often than the bad so that has me very motivated to continue on this path of self discovery and improvement. 

Thanks for all of the great advice in this post over the past few weeks it has helped out immeasurably.


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## U.E. McGill (Nov 27, 2013)

defton519 said:


> I will definitely give that a try because this no sleeping thing is not doing me any good at all. Thanks for the advice. I'll let you know how it works out.



I battle insomnia too. I did a "whole30 challenge" and changed my diet to strict Paleo. After a week I was exhausted by 10, slept through the night and woke up bouncing. 

Now I work out 4 days a week doing CrossFit, I've started trail running and training on days off. I eat modified paleo with carb loading after workouts. 

I sleep great now. 

So look at your diet. Stop the vicious caffeine cycle (I have 2 cups of coffee before 10, then no more caffeine) and wear yourself out!


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

U.E. McGill said:


> I battle insomnia too. I did a "whole30 challenge" and changed my diet to strict Paleo. After a week I was exhausted by 10, slept through the night and woke up bouncing.
> 
> Now I work out 4 days a week doing CrossFit, I've started trail running and training on days off. I eat modified paleo with carb loading after workouts.
> 
> ...


McGill, I haven't tried the diet change yet but I am definitely wearing myself out during the day. I was drinking a lot of coffee prior to going to Afghanistan and I was able to ween myself down to a single cup in the morning. It helped a lot with the jitters I was getting and also helped on the days I don't drink coffee at all. I no longer get headaches when I don't have time to make coffee.

As far as working out, I usually run or lift 5-6 days a week either at lunch or in the early evenings before I eat. It worked for a week or two but hasn't helped much as of late. I may give the diet change thing a try.

Thanks for the advice.


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

So today was a great day and I rarely thought about my wife. The past three days she has text me and asked if we are ever going to talk again. I have been resisting the urge to text her back and this afternoon it has been extremely hard to do. My mind says this is just another manipulation by her as I was very clear about what NC meant, but for some reason I just feel like I should reaffirm that with her. I guess I'm just thinking that she wants to actually talk because I'm in a bad state of mind right now and kinda tired. 

Should I let her know that I am still working on me and will continue with NC or just let it be?


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## U.E. McGill (Nov 27, 2013)

defton519 said:


> McGill, I haven't tried the diet change yet but I am definitely wearing myself out during the day. I was drinking a lot of coffee prior to going to Afghanistan and I was able to ween myself down to a single cup in the morning. It helped a lot with the jitters I was getting and also helped on the days I don't drink coffee at all. I no longer get headaches when I don't have time to make coffee.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Just be careful as you work out a lot. I like to keep muscle and loose fat. I balance that with a light carb loading after workouts. Too little carbs with that heavy a workload and you can start doing funny things to your kidneys.


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

So after really thinking about it last night I think I am starting to understand why she is texting and wondering if we are going to talk more. I realized that she is not in control anymore and is starting to come to the realization that she can't control me and manipulate me anymore. Kind of a good feeling to know that it's messing with her head. I'm feeling a lot better about being in control of my life now. I have another IC session on Monday and I am really looking forward to it. I ordered a few books yesterday about taking back control of my life and should receive them on Saturday. I'm pretty excited about delving into them and having the time to reflect on everything. She is still the first thing I think about in the morning and the last thing I think about at night but I have been able to push those thoughts out of my head fairly quickly and resume working on me and making it about me again.


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

So she's at it again. She texted me to tell me how she is losing weight and been going to the gym (something I tried to get her to do with me for years!). I really want to text her back and tell her that the OM is a lucky guy but instead I am posting here. I'm really angry right now and really want to say something to her but I know that's what she wants. Just gotta keep reminding myself that this is just another manipulation by her!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sammy64 (Oct 28, 2013)

tdwal said:


> Your doing good, she is trying to manipulate you, to let you know that she will do what you had asked all along for the other guy. If you got an iphone, block her number, if not find out what the carriers can do for you. Just disappear for a while, *let her have your mailing address*.


I would be a little carefull giving my address out to her, she just might show up one day out of the blue, unless she alrdy has it.


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

defton519 said:


> So she's at it again. She texted me to tell me how she is losing weight and been going to the gym (something I tried to get her to do with me for years!). I really want to text her back and tell her that the OM is a lucky guy but instead I am posting here. I'm really angry right now and really want to say something to her but I know that's what she wants. Just gotta keep reminding myself that this is just another manipulation by her!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It is quite normal, my ex quit smoking after we separated. He has also found his spirituality.
I don't know why they do these changes, perhaps they want to better themselves, perhaps they do it out of spite because we are not longer there. Not sure. 
It will come a time, that you will no longer be angry at the healthy choices she makes. You will be happy or neutral.


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

Sammy64 said:


> I would be a little carefull giving my address out to her, she just might show up one day out of the blue, unless she alrdy has it.





tdwal said:


> Your doing good, she is trying to manipulate you, to let you know that she will do what you had asked all along for the other guy. If you got an iphone, block her number, if not find out what the carriers can do for you. Just disappear for a while, let her have your mailing address.





ne9907 said:


> It is quite normal, my ex quit smoking after we separated. He has also found his spirituality.
> I don't know why they do these changes, perhaps they want to better themselves, perhaps they do it out of spite because we are not longer there. Not sure.
> It will come a time, that you will no longer be angry at the healthy choices she makes. You will be happy or neutral.


Yeah I may give my cell carrier a call and see what I can do with blocking her. She already has my address because I needed her to send me some of my things. I doubt she will show up out of the blue since she lives in CA and I am on the east coast. If she does there are some decent hotels in the area. I think she is doing what she is doing for herself and the OM. I know that she is telling me because she wants me to respond since I made it perfectly clear what NC meant and she has started to realize that I will not be her doormat or her plan b and also that I will not be her emotional support any longer. This is the choice that she made and I can only control myself and my actions/reactions and take this time to worry about that which I can control. I would still be willing to work on an R at this point but I can see that I am coming very close to getting to the point where that will no longer be something that I either want or need. Hopefully with the IC I will realize that I deserve better than she will ever be able to provide and that her actions have shown that she is not the person that I had always thought she was. It will be nice to get to the point of indifference but I think I am a long way off from that.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

“So she's at it again. She texted me to tell me how she is losing weight and been going to the gym (something I tried to get her to do with me for years!). I really want to text her back and tell her that the OM is a lucky guy.”

Ok, I did back at the beginning of my mess….all it will do is create a day filled with not so pleasant texts and blame games. Its just not worth the drama and nonsense.


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

honcho said:


> “So she's at it again. She texted me to tell me how she is losing weight and been going to the gym (something I tried to get her to do with me for years!). I really want to text her back and tell her that the OM is a lucky guy.”
> 
> Ok, I did back at the beginning of my mess….all it will do is create a day filled with not so pleasant texts and blame games. Its just not worth the drama and nonsense.



Yeah that is what I figured and that's why I posted here instead of texting her. Now I just need to work on letting it go and realizing that I can't affect her actions, that's the hardest part.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

You are affecting her actions, just not the way she wants….


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

honcho said:


> You are affecting her actions, just not the way she wants….


You know I actually take a little comfort in that.


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## U.E. McGill (Nov 27, 2013)

defton519 said:


> Yeah I may give my cell carrier a call and see what I can do with blocking her. She already has my address because I needed her to send me some of my things. I doubt she will show up out of the blue since she lives in CA and I am on the east coast. If she does there are some decent hotels in the area. I think she is doing what she is doing for herself and the OM. I know that she is telling me because she wants me to respond since I made it perfectly clear what NC meant and she has started to realize that I will not be her doormat or her plan b and also that I will not be her emotional support any longer. This is the choice that she made and I can only control myself and my actions/reactions and take this time to worry about that which I can control. I would still be willing to work on an R at this point but I can see that I am coming very close to getting to the point where that will no longer be something that I either want or need. Hopefully with the IC I will realize that I deserve better than she will ever be able to provide and that her actions have shown that she is not the person that I had always thought she was. It will be nice to get to the point of indifference but I think I am a long way off from that.



Welcome to the world of plenty!!!)


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## terrence4159 (Feb 3, 2013)

hey i live in idaho thats right next door to montana if you get me the om's address maybe i can get over there and catch him before he falls down and breaks both his legs


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

terrence4159 said:


> hey i live in idaho thats right next door to montana if you get me the om's address maybe i can get over there and catch him before he falls down and breaks both his legs


:smthumbup::smthumbup:


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## defton519 (Jun 10, 2014)

So I had one too many drinks last night and emailed her about the separation agreement and the changes she wants. I shouldn't have done that while drinking because when she replied and asked why I was freezing her out and that we needed to continue to talk so she can "trust" me again I fell for it. I said the same stuff that I have said before that there is no point in talking unless we are reconciling. She said we need to be friends before she can even think about reconciling. 

Now I feel dumb again because I fell for her lies, yet again. I have noticed that she calls the OM right before she calls me every time. Got to eat her cake first before she gets a second piece I guess. I know that she is not trying to talk to me to learn to trust me again and that this is just manipulation and cake eating but I guess I'm not as moved on as I thought I was. So lately I have been tempted to email her again and ask her why we should talk, to what end? My guess is she will lie and say that it is so we can be friends and see where it goes from there.

Any advice?


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## Stretch (Dec 12, 2012)

Get back on that horse friend,

NC and 180. Two steps forward one step back.

You'll get there, you are doing great,
Stretch


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