# So many "Man Up" Posts, what if you are to overbearing?



## Jpeace (May 5, 2011)

I moved in with a woman I have known since I was ~14 from Seattle to Las Vegas. I had lived with her before, 3 years ago and our mutual immaturity was WAY to much and quickly became volatile. Seattle was giving me seasonal depression and we started talking again when I was deciding to get out of the rain. She offered, I accepted. In exchange for my half of the rent (I was offered a job making $3 an hour more than her, she prefers me at home), I watch her kid, even when she goes to the bar. I clean her house and dishes (of which would be left out to mold), I take care of her bills.

I moved here when she got her tax return, $4,000. I found out she was actually about ~$2,000 in debt just from bills. The other $2,000 she spent on shoes and outfits for her friends, along with bar tabs in about a week. No joke.

She is friends with her ex, of which a week before we started dating she was still sleeping with. He dumped her 10 months before that and had ZERO emotional ties to her (I have seen the chat logs). She said his name during sex, once, and has his stuff and pictures all over the house. She also continues to use ******* (dating website) to, "keep in touch" with friends. I suggested getting their emails and facebooks, but that was ignored.

For about a month she let me take control of the money, I told her to always have $40 cash on her and no more. She can't have a bank account do to being in the CHEX system. For the first time in I assume, ever, she has money in a savings account (mind you, in my name, but its 100% her money I dont touch it).

She then decided that was not for her, and decided to keep her checks. It was a struggle to get $400 for bills...that is until our power was shut off. She spent almost all over the other $450 from her check in about a week. When asked, she said she never bought anything. The point that around $380 dollars was gone didn't seem to mean anything, because she "just" bought chipotle, etc.

Everything is last minute, example, she just asked me if she can go to the club with her friend, who hates me. I told her she doesn't have to ask to go out, but she does have to ask for me to watch her kid. Which is what she meant, but I don't like it questioned that way. It makes me feel like I'm controlling her life. So I have no stability, for the past weeks I have eating bean burritos for breakfast lunch and dinner (around $1-2 a day in food) because that's the sacrifice I know I can make to improve both our lives. However, when she gets home drunk I don't chit chat or even really care to hang out so I am a bad guy.

Now, she is so sensitive that I fear even pointing out things because it ruins her self esteem. She has gained a LOT of weight but I never mention it and when she talks about dieting I don't encourage beyond any help I can offer and let her know I love the way she looks.

She spends emotionally, acts and thinks emotionally. Beyond a normal woman. She is detrimental to her own goals. I can ask, what life would would want; even if its be drunk all day and do nothing, what do you want? I started with, I never want to work more than 6 hours a day and I would probably have sex twice a day and eat a giant banquet. Am I going to have that? No, but I work towards those goals in my own way. Hers was simply stability, financial mainly. 

I do NOT tell her not to drink, party or hang out. I tell her to bring the six pack to her friends house, not a $11 cran vodka. Ten of those in a night. While I eat a bean burrito for every meal, oh and your daughter does too. I do NOT tell her not to do anything in her life, just simply achieve the same goals in different ways. 

She is immature but also extremely sensitive. I feel like I have to speak to her like a child to be heard and she constantly says "I don't get it" when I asked for it to be explained, she says there is no point.

I need help, I am the type of person who tried being homeless just to appreciate things in life. I mean, by choice. If I want something I do EVERYTHING to get it that I know how to or am exposed to. So how does someone as over bearing and goal oriented deal with someone, that I don't want to label as such, but I label as immature? The same person can't handle being told their wrong and personalizes everything as an attack, rather than acknowledgment of a problem that can be solved. I keep losing my patience and yelling, to the point that I have been looking up therapists and perhaps considering anger management to deal with these feelings of rage I get every time she doesn't get one of these things I consider so basic. 



**I know I have patience issues and work on it. I use breathing techniques and counting when she gets home drunk off her ass for me to find out she spent away our tomorrow again.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

You come across to me as MASSIVELY CODEPENDENT.

And why on earth did you give up on the things that make a man actually feel like a man? You know, being the provider/protector etc. etc. type of thing.

Give up on trying to change your partner because it ain’t never going to happen.

Bob


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## OOE (Mar 17, 2011)

Get an index card and a sharpie...

On the index card, write the following: "I can't fix her."

Keep the card close so you can look at it often.


(I was married to my exW for 20 years. She's still just as immature about money as the day we met. The difference is that at 20 it was being irresponsible with $400. At 40 it was being irresponsible to the tune of $80K. Your SO leads the dance. Coming from a great deal of painful experience, let me tell you that this dance won't end until she steps off the dance floor - and you can't MAKE that happen.)


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## themrs (Oct 16, 2009)

When I was in college we had a term for guys like you - Captain Save-a-Hoe.

She seriously sounds like she has adult ADD.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I'm trying to see where you're "overbearing"? It seems like you're being walked on. You make suggestions that are being ignored, you babysit her child so she can go out and overspend, you're eating bean burritos while she's drinking $100 worth of booze in a night, you fear pointing things out to her because of her reactions... 

Just because she or her friends say you're controlling doesn't mean squat... 

C


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Yeah bud. This is some serious codependency issues! Do you think the more you sacrifice you and your happiness, the more she will love you? If the answer is yes, the ask yourself this....." How's that working out for you so far?"

Grow some NUTS. You are getting used and abused, and you sit there and take it. You are also an enabler. You are just as much to blame for her spending wads of cash at the bar as she is, because YOU LET HER GO! Next time, DONT watch her kid. Don't give her the chance to go out and waste money. Let her find her own babysitter. And speak your mind. Don't be scared of her reaction. That's just weak. How is she going to wake up if you don't tell her the issues?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## notaname (Feb 4, 2011)

What everybody else said.


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## Jpeace (May 5, 2011)

So, basically I am letting myself be used and enabling the downfall? I am being extremely co-dependant?

My issue is that I really do love her, but can't live this life. I do see improvements, but like last night she wanted to go to the club with her friend. She got in free and with 2 free drinks because she "knows the DJ" (which btw if I hear, because I know someone one more time I might scream.). As I mentioned before, so I agreed to watching her kid because it would be free and she needs to hang out just like us all, destressers. She insisted she would not come home drunk, but instead random men bought her and her friend drinks (her friend is taken also, she was dancing with the man etc.) and she came home demanding attention at 1 am. I had the lights off child asleep and was listening to a lecture while playing online risk (Wow I sound like a geezer now, Im between 20-30). She wanted me to sit with her, watch shows and talk about how she was "standoffish to guys" like it was an achievement not to hit on or let yourself get hit on. I tried to stretch, but she decided it was time for "us" to go to bed, I stayed there and stretched to destress and she just kept interrupting me.

This morning I went on the recent documents on the computer to open somethign and there was a saved file from the "ghost bar" nightclub with her, her friend that watches her crash and burn and her ex. I told her I saw and and was annoyed. That I wasn't really annoyed with her and that I shouldnt let it bug me as their friends but its just annoying. I told her I was going to look up trust building excercises for ME to do for me to lower my jealousy. She came out and asked me questions and I went on about what all she did last night and how that picture annoyed me. Had a minor blow up as would happen any time I get bugged when annoyed and when I ask to postpone a conversation its "we can only talk when I decide" like I am controlling when we can talk. All I am saying is "not right now, it wont be productive". She took it all as a personal attack rather than things that can be fixed. A little before she went to work I decided to take her kid to her friends house and as I was leaving her ex called and she asked for a ride to work.

I walk down to the bus stop she was going to use, because I need some things from the store. On my way back she is walking to the bus and I got all excited because as I left, when she asked for the ride, I told her it could of been a good statement through action to not take a ride from him. So I got excited because I thought she canceled the ride and was going to take the bus just as an Im sorry. I find out he just wasnt responding to the calls and she needed to go to work. Once I walk her to the bus stop her ex calls and says he is halfway there. She asks if its ok for her to get a ride I just say ok have a good day and walk home.

Here I am all excited because SHES not mad at the fact that I was mad at her actions.

I told her that she needs to start paying me to watch her kid, so that I can care less if she goes down in flames I will have my money. I don't want to be her facebook friends so I don't have to know her shallow jersey shore idolizing hipster friends.

I want to focus on us and if we can work and if she is ready to just man up herself and stop acting like a damn 21 year old you see on T.V.


As far as being co-dependant, unfortunately unless I move out or get a job soon, that is not something I can do anything about ;/





**Also, I think I come off as more of a pushover because of the actions I take for her. I just view it as she is sensitive and I want a goal so I do what is needed. Im the type of guy who says *you, get that done* and walks away expecting it to get done but that would NEVER work with her. That is why I yell and blow up, all the pent up "WHAT THE **** ARE YOU DOING CAN YOU EVEN SEE YOUR FRIENDS DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS TO EVEN BE A FRIEND LET ALONE THE CHILDISH WAY YOU SEEK ATTENTION AND HOW EMOTIONALLY BASED ALL OF YOUR ACTIONS ARE?!" But then again, I can't think that way because who am I to assume what those things truly are and how they are to be handled......just seems common sense if you see a loved one drown you dont jump on their back. If you and your ex are such good friends, you would still be dating. I have NEVER stopped dating someone because we were only good friends. That makes you good acquaintances who know alot about each other.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Jpeace said:


> So, basically I am letting myself be used and enabling the downfall? I am being extremely co-dependant?
> 
> My issue is that I really do love her, but can't live this life. I do see improvements, but like last night she wanted to go to the club with her friend. She got in free and with 2 free drinks because she "knows the DJ" (which btw if I hear, because I know someone one more time I might scream.). As I mentioned before, so I agreed to watching her kid because it would be free and she needs to hang out just like us all, destressers. She insisted she would not come home drunk, but instead random men bought her and her friend drinks (her friend is taken also, she was dancing with the man etc.) and she came home demanding attention at 1 am. I had the lights off child asleep and was listening to a lecture while playing online risk (Wow I sound like a geezer now, Im between 20-30). She wanted me to sit with her, watch shows and talk about how she was "standoffish to guys" like it was an achievement not to hit on or let yourself get hit on. I tried to stretch, but she decided it was time for "us" to go to bed, I stayed there and stretched to destress and she just kept interrupting me.
> 
> ...


Repeat the following to yourself 10,000 times

She will never ever change.

I will never ever change her.

And for goodness sake don’t take that on as a “challenge”.

Then go over to http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/25123-man-s-self-esteem-2.html and take the self esteem test.

Bob


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Yes, and go read the Man Up sticky at the top of the men's forum. A lot of your statements read. "..and I was happy that she wasn't mad...."

This is not how to think in a relationship. Your constant need for approval makes you less attractive and weak in her eyes. Plus, you STILL are enabling her, however you want to describe it or justify.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nader (May 4, 2011)

So many red flags in this story I don't know where to begin. Everyone in this thread is spot on, only it sounds like the two of you deserve each other, if you've let it get to this point. Good luck getting your life straightened out...


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## Jpeace (May 5, 2011)

Thank you for your replies, help and time.



Calendula said:


> Based on this and your other post, what IS it that you like about this woman that you are in a relationship with?
> It seems that most of what you say is negative, I can't find anything positive.
> 
> I'm not judging, just wondering. Might be something to think about.



She has a "good heart", just naive and can't stand any form of criticism. Only person that has been in my life longer than her is family. Oh well.

I'm so tired of this, I am also going through a whole lot right now from my little brother having to go the the psychiatrist to all these other things this has caused and I am strung thin.

Thank you so much for your time and input on this. 

I was really hoping someone was going to say "Stop being so mad, your being an ******* and causing this" or something. Something that I personally could do. I was in a very dark place when I began writing all this and am still there. However, I do want to take the time to thank everyone for setting me straight.

I'm not sure why "nader" said we deserve eachother, perhaps he was just saying I am as much to blame for enabling and sticking around. I just did not want to throw away 10 years is all. I know I have issues and was hoping to get some insight on them. Co-dependency is one people seem to be pointing out alot. 

From a very ugly divorce family (ex-meth addict), at the same time a brother dieing to cancer, at 18 astranged parents. Yadda yadda sob story.

My main goal is to fix myself so I can sit back and say I did EVERYTHING in my power, otherwise there will always be a what if in my head.


and I know EVERYONE has a sob story, I am not using that as an excuse. Just an acknowledgement that I need help, because I feel as though I am out of tools to fix them myself.


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## Jpeace (May 5, 2011)

Oh and bob, I scored a 75% on the test answering as honestly as I could.

Your right though, someone can't change unless they want to. I guess I was the only one wanting her life to be "normal" and not the typical day by day Las Vegas people seem to be ingrained with.



I really hate to waste your time, but I have another question. 

I am constantly blowing up about these things, at this point its about every 3 days I am YELLING. Not telling her how ****ty or stupid she is or anything, but just how she is holding back her OWN goals and contradictions.
I feel like a monster, as all her friends are saying, because I lack the ability to be nice when probed all the time.

Such as today, a fight was started because I was in the restroom. She knocks and at the same time opens the door, I say "The point of knocking is to wait for a response, I was ****ting". This starts an argument that "she didn't know I was doing that" and all I was saying is "Then just say your sorry and walk away, stop being defensive".

I then took a shower and she came in and asked ïf I was going to be in a better mood when she got back from work" and I blew up about all kinds of little things, such as the lack of groceries in the house but I didn't know she had received $200 when she asked me if I wanted anything from the store last night I said no, because I thought we had no money so I would just eat whatever is in the house. I am also out of cigs, because I feel like a burden asking for them. She decided to take the rest of the money (already down to $135, with only one meal of food purchased, in one night) and throw it on the table yelling and all that.

Was I instigating? I mean I did over respond once the argument started, but was this something I should of done differently? 
The reason I sound so insecure is the jobs I work and the type of person I am is a blunt and straight forward. You step on my foot, I say hey you stepped on my foot, but that doesn't work in modern society for the most part. They would take it as "Hey, ******* look how stupid you are you stepped on my foot." 

Am I perceiving my own actions wrong, remember, I am YELLING and pointing out all the money things and everything I listed here, how can I handle this better? Again I just want to say I did everything I can personally do.

Edit: The words of condescension (as she puts it) I use is "immature, childish, naive, inconsiderate" I make sure to point out I don't think she is stupid or ugly. The worste thing perhaps I have said is her daughter will run away if she did something wrong. Spill her cup, runs to her room, and I pointed out that she is basically doing the same thing when she gets defensive about opening the door on someone who is using the restroom.


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## nader (May 4, 2011)

> I'm not sure why "nader" said we deserve each other, perhaps he was just saying I am as much to blame for enabling and sticking around.


Yes, that's basically what I was saying.. sorry if it sounded harsh, but I was just going by the info you've given.

It sounds like you are going through alot lately.. I hope you can get the help you need, professional if at all possible.

ETA: I would be yelling alot too if I were in your situation.


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## Jpeace (May 5, 2011)

nader said:


> Yes, that's basically what I was saying.. sorry if it sounded harsh, but I was just going by the info you've given.
> 
> It sounds like you are going through alot lately.. I hope you can get the help you need, professional if at all possible.
> 
> ETA: I would be yelling alot too if I were in your situation.



I appreciate it, regardless of its harshness. The truth hurts and thats all I want, the truth.

I am currently posting on a mental health forum, because I am so stressed out that I feel like I may have some sort of illness. Unfortunately I am now so poor I can't afford proffessional help, but after one arguement I told her "Ïf I really am being irrationally angry then I want to be checked into a hospital right now because I feel like I cant control my anger anymore." and she was insisting I just didn't get it. again, NEVER physical. just the rage inside I feel.

So mainly based on the criteria of "rage" I came up with BPD, because no matter what I am in the wrong everytime I yell. It is rarely the solution and my logic brain tells me I should be able to control it and since I can't I must have something wrong.

I posted first on this forum before coming here to see perhaps it's just relationship issues. (I always blame myself first and work from there, period. It is easier that way and I can be more confident in an issue if I have analyzed what I may of done wrong, including having a mental illness. I just want every angle covered, which is why i started with my possible mental illness and moved onto relationship forums.)
The rest of the symptoms I now feel just may be extreme depression. Again not a sob story, just being open. Yes I have been homeless, my dad was an ex meth addict, my brother had cancer my entire childhood, my immediate family has 11 people in it, I didn't talk to my parents from the age of 18 to almost 21. I was homeless for a year in part because living with my brother he dragged my GF at the time out of the house by her throat (he weighs literally twice as much as me) I am still getting over all of this when this bombshell of all the hardwork I did for the past 2 or so years to get out of that situation and life now is wasted on this "investment" that I thought was just filling in the last piece of the puzzle I finally deserved after all this hard work and life lessons I gathered.

http://www.mentalhealth-world.org.u...o-please-help/page__gopid__626550#entry626550 



I really appreciate your time taken replying. I promise I will pay forward every piece of advice I get to anyone I ever meet who needs it. I promise.


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