# Husband's 'little' white lies.



## lc89 (Oct 24, 2018)

This is going to be long, so apologies in advance.
M husband and I have been together for nearly 10 years. Over these years there have been instances where I have caught him lying. The first couple times we talked about it, and moved on. The accumulation of it is now starting to really bother me.

The first thing I found out about is that he went to a strip club while he was out of town for a bachelor party. I had talked to him on the phone the day after they went to the strip club and specifically asked him what they did the night prior. No mention of the strip club. He did tell me when he got home, but waited until we were out to dinner! He told me he didn't tell me when I had originally asked because he knew I'd be upset and he didn't want it to ruin the rest of his boy's trip.

The second instance I found out about is pretty big in my opinion. I found out he was selling items that I didn't know about and depositing the money from the sale into a savings account that I don't have access to. He was using the money to buy things for his hobby that he didn't think I'd approve of him spending our personal money on. He went as far as to use a anonymous texting app to arrange the sales with people so that I wouldn't see the texts. I found out about all just a month ago, about 2 years after the fact, when he had left me his phone for the day because mine was broken. I found the texting app and discovered all the messages he had with the buyers. An important thing to mention here is that I did catch him doing this a couple years back, ONCE, because I went to go hang his jacket up and found a wad of cash in his pocket. He told me what it was from, I expressed my disapproval of him doing things like that behind my back, and he said he wouldn't do it again. BUT of course, he did, about 4 more times spanning the course of 2 years.

There was also a day that he was later home from work than usual, and when I asked if he went on a detour (he rides motorcycles and will sometimes take a quick fun route home) he told me no. I later found out, via a mutual friend, that he had stopped by this friend's house to anonymously drop off a wedding gift. He told me he lied to me because he felt silly dropping off the gift because him and his friend had a falling out and weren't on speaking terms.

One last most recent thing, the other week I grabbed his iPad off of his nightstand and brought it into the kitchen to use it to read off a recipe while I was cooking. He was in the kitchen with me. While I walked away he walked up to the iPad and started closing apps/browsers. I asked what he was doing and he said he was just clearing off open apps, for no reason. I told him that didn't make any sense, and after a lot of pushing for him to 'just tell me the truth' he admitted that he thought he might have left a private browsing window open with porn on it and didn't want me to find it. He claimed he doesn't seek it out but occasionally clicks on it when he comes across it on Reddit. Last night we had another long discussion about this and he finally admitted that yes, he does occasionally seek it out.

We have had a couple recent very thorough discussions on how his lying isn't acceptable. I've explained that it makes me wonder what else he is hiding, and when I will find out about the next lie. I don't have any reason at all to believe he has been unfaithful romantically, but I admit all these little 'white lies' make me wonder what else he's capable of. I have access to his phone/browsing history and he told me to look through everything and I didn't find anything to be worried about.

After our last big discussion, he seems to understand and seems very remorseful. Says he feels like a crap person and knows I don't deserve to be lied to. I've asked him how do I know this won't continue? He says he didn't understand how much it affected me, and now that he does, he doesn't want to hurt me anymore and will stop. In his mind he was just avoiding confrontation/a possible fight about something he didn't think was a big deal but he knew I'd be upset about.

Other than this we have a great relationship and are both very happy. I just want to figure out how to move on from this --- I want to trust him. I feel the desire to look up on him frequently now, check his phone, etc. to see if he's lying about anything else. I don't like being a snoop or feeling controlling so it's a blah situation all around. 

Advice?


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

lc89 said:


> This is going to be long, so apologies in advance.
> M husband and I have been together for nearly 10 years. Over these years there have been instances where I have caught him lying. The first couple times we talked about it, and moved on. The accumulation of it is now starting to really bother me.
> 
> The first thing I found out about is that he went to a strip club while he was out of town for a bachelor party. I had talked to him on the phone the day after they went to the strip club and specifically asked him what they did the night prior. No mention of the strip club. He did tell me when he got home, but waited until we were out to dinner! He told me he didn't tell me when I had originally asked because he knew I'd be upset and he didn't want it to ruin the rest of his boy's trip.
> ...


Your husband is a liar. He has likely lied all his life and does not know how to function otherwise. You only know the ones that you've caught him in. In my book being married to someone you can't trust--especially when it affects you---is NOT a great relationship.

He needs IC to address this. I would also make sure that he knows the next time, I'm gone--of course, this might make him more sneaky. You, on the other hand, do not seem be of the same ilk as myself and one has to mean it to get results.


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## BigToe (Jun 2, 2011)

Sounds to me like he needs some room to breathe. He's much too bothered about what your reaction is going to be regarding some pretty normal behavior, and afraid of antagonizing you. Going to a strip club as part of a batchelor's party is not something he should have to wonder if you will be upset about. That's what guys do. I did it with some of my friends when they got married, and my friends brought me to one when I got married.

Why shouldn't he be able to spend money on his hobby? Were the items he sold, things you don't care about? If so, sounds like he was respectful of not taking money out of your accounts. He must be treading behind your back because you don't want him participating in the hobby, which sounds rather restrictive to me.

Porn? 'eh...sounds like it's not a habit. Guess what, guys like to look at pictures of women's boobs. 
It's how we're wired. As long as he's not obsessing over it, so what.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Stealing stuff that belongs to the family and selling it in secret? That's not a white lie. It's theft.

He needs monitoring as these are only the lies you know about.


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## lc89 (Oct 24, 2018)

BigToe said:


> Sounds to me like he needs some room to breathe. He's much too bothered about what your reaction is going to be regarding some pretty normal behavior, and afraid of antagonizing you. Going to a strip club as part of a batchelor's party is not something he should have to wonder if you will be upset about. That's what guys do. I did it with some of my friends when they got married, and my friends brought me to one when I got married.
> 
> Why shouldn't he be able to spend money on his hobby? Were the items he sold, things you don't care about? If so, sounds like he was respectful of not taking money out of your accounts. He must be treading behind your back because you don't want him participating in the hobby, which sounds rather restrictive to me.
> 
> ...


I completely agree his lying is because he's afraid of my reactions and doesn't want the stress of a fight. I should have mentioned I'm a very level headed person, and even after 'catching' him in these lies I haven't ever freaked out and none of it has ever resulted in a fight, but rather a discussion. I even told him that I wouldn't have cared if he bought things for his hobby (and he does so frequently about things that I know about) and he said he felt stupid spending our own money so hid it from me -- he even had the item he bought shipped to his work instead of our home so I wouldn't see it.
I'm quite supportive of his hobby -- it's motorcycles and he has several and frequently goes on long road trips with them, all with my support.

Last night I asked him if there is something that I have done to make him feel like he has to hide stuff from me, something I need to change -- and he insists that there isn't, he just flat out doesn't like the possibility of confrontation/an 'unnecessary' fight.


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## lc89 (Oct 24, 2018)

MattMatt said:


> Stealing stuff that belongs to the family and selling it in secret? That's not a white lie. It's theft.
> 
> He needs monitoring as these are only the lies you know about.


I didn't feel the need to go into detail regarding that one, but do know that it wasn't theft and wasn't anything that belonged to our family.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

lc89 said:


> I didn't feel the need to go into detail regarding that one, but do know that it wasn't theft and wasn't anything that belonged to our family.


Oh, OK.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

You are not married. You are roommates with some dude doing his own thing. Well, I guess you are doing the laundry and cooking for H butt while he is busy selling, porning and getting into other things his roommate not need to know about. 

It is time to open up all the electronics, stop the lying and join the marriage. Or, get the heck out.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

I would not call these incidents "white lies". They are explicit deceptions. A white lie is a lie told to protect another person's feelings. What he is doing is lying by omission to cover up his bad behavior that he knows is wrong.

It's hard to see how he changes this aspect of his personality. He is a conflict avoider and he is doing things he knows you disapprove of. The first can probably be worked on my making him feel safe to bring up disagreements. Maybe he got yelled at a lot as a kid, or maybe there is no reason. Regardless, making him feel more comfortable with disagreement can be done. The second is more troubling in the context of a marriage. In general, spouses should not do things they know will upset their spouse. Even if it seems silly, the boundaries of the other spouse should be respected. So he should either respect the boundaries, discuss a compromise, or get divorced so he can be single and do whatever he wants.

I do agree that these incidents are not completely terrible. However, they exhibit a pattern of deception. That's what you need to focus on--he continually deceives you. Don't focus on the specifics of the lies themselves, focus on the fact that he's deceptive and that you won't stand for it.

If you want this to work out, I imagine you might have to treat him as if he was a cheater. He will need to commit to being more open and transparent with you. You'll need access to all his electronics, bank records, credit cards, and be able to track him at all times. If he balks, tell him that you lost trust in him and he needs to build it back if it wants the marriage to work out.


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## lc89 (Oct 24, 2018)

Thanks. He's already done things like turn on the location history on his phone, given me the log-in info to the account I didn't previously have access to, and had me look through his phones (we've always known each other's passwords so I could have done this at any time but didn't out of respect). He said it felt pretty bad that he felt like I didn't trust him any more, but that he knew he did it to himself. I will also say that he has cried over this, and I have only see him cry one other time that I have known him and that was when his dog died. 

I told him that it isn't about the act but rather the lie, yes. I told him it makes me feel like he doesn't respect me and I've occasionally felt like he thought I was stupid or something, because his excuses after I started to catch on/question him but before he would admit to the lie didn't make any logical sense to me.

I don't want to portray him as a bad person. If you take these instances away he's a very loving and loyal spouse (I know, I know), as far as I knew. We get along great 99% of the time, have a great sex life, I feel like he cares for me greatly. This aspect of his personality doesn't fit in with the behavior he exhibits at all other majority of times.


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## BigToe (Jun 2, 2011)

lc89 said:


> I completely agree his lying is because he's afraid of my reactions and doesn't want the stress of a fight. I should have mentioned I'm a very level headed person, and even after 'catching' him in these lies I haven't ever freaked out and none of it has ever resulted in a fight, but rather a discussion. I even told him that I wouldn't have cared if he bought things for his hobby (and he does so frequently about things that I know about) and he said he felt stupid spending our own money so hid it from me -- he even had the item he bought shipped to his work instead of our home so I wouldn't see it.
> I'm quite supportive of his hobby -- it's motorcycles and he has several and frequently goes on long road trips with them, all with my support.
> 
> Last night I asked him if there is something that I have done to make him feel like he has to hide stuff from me, something I need to change -- and he insists that there isn't, he just flat out doesn't like the possibility of confrontation/an 'unnecessary' fight.


Thanks for expanding on the information. It does change my view somewhat because now his behavior is less explainable via logic. Before jumping to conclusions of something nefarious going on however, I would really try to explore why he would behave this way if there's no downside such as chastising him. It almost sounds like he's very insecure about making the right decisions in his life. Have you been the decision maker in your marriage? How does he handle criticism in his life...I don't mean just by you, but you know, generally...from work, family, friends.


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## lc89 (Oct 24, 2018)

BigToe said:


> Thanks for expanding on the information. It does change my view somewhat because now his behavior is less explainable via logic. Before jumping to conclusions of something nefarious going on however, I would really try to explore why he would behave this way if there's no downside such as chastising him. It almost sounds like he's very insecure about making the right decisions in his life. Have you been the decision maker in your marriage? How does he handle criticism in his life...I don't mean just by you, but you know, generally...from work, family, friends.



He doesn't handle it well. Criticism as well as confrontation make him shut down. It's actually an area he has improved upon greatly, especially with me, since I have known him. We are fairly young, early 30's so I known him for a long time. 
He is an only child and has dealt with a lot of criticism from his dad which he never handled well. 
Edited to add that I guess you could say I am the main decision maker. We always talk about things together, but I'm the one who pays the bills, plans vacations, date nights, etc.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Oh man... liars are TOUGH to deal with. The biggest one in the examples you gave is the whole selling/secret account deal. I'm just not sure why he thought this had to be hidden, unless you had jumped him previously about how much money he was putting into his hobby. (sometimes people really do get carried away with hobbies) However, even if that were true, you are within your right to voice your opinion about financial matters in the marriage. Seems to me that him selling things to fund the hobby would actually be a POSITIVE thing, rather than pulling money needed for expenses. 

Had you fought previously about strip clubs? About porn? If you are unreasonable about things, it would make sense that he hide his activities, but from what you describe, you are NOT. Tough call as to how to move forward, other than to make him accountable through transparency. And maybe some therapy to see if this is a more deeply rooted issue.


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## Tex X (May 17, 2017)

Tell him to read No More Mr Nice Guy:

https://www.amazon.com/No-More-Mr-Nice-Guy/dp/0762415339


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

Sigh. To me there is more than conflict avoidance here. The extent--mailing to work, the ipad app closure, etc.--indicates capability of deep deception if necessary. 

It is almost like he transferred his behavior from FOO home to married home. Y'all sound like mother and child in this one area at least. 

Acceleration is possible if not likely. Problem is eventually should he be attracted to another female at a strip joint, he is likely to deceive. If he wants a new motorcycle motor, he is likely to deceive. If he becomes involved in drugs, he is likely to deceive. It comes naturally to him to hide things from YOU. This is not what one does in a good marriage.

Not saying he is hopeless. Am saying he must have professional help to overcome this.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Deception 

The guy is an amateur in deception... Like, won't even lie properly, use a burner phone, etc etc.. 

But since this is a marriage forum, watch TOGETHER one of my favorite movies of all time to understand what deception is. It's "Goodbye Lenin"...


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

White lies are usually harmless deceptions, often said to make someone feel better:

"You are as beautiful as the day I first saw you". "I never think about other women". " I love watching lifestyles with you every evening" 


Lies to protect one's self are not "white" lies, they are just lies. They are only excusable if someone constantly asks inappropriate questions .


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

Ic89, you need a lawyer.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

lc89 said:


> I completely agree his lying is because he's afraid of my reactions and doesn't want the stress of a fight. I should have mentioned I'm a very level headed person, and even after 'catching' him in these lies I haven't ever freaked out and none of it has ever resulted in a fight, but rather a discussion. I even told him that I wouldn't have cared if he bought things for his hobby (and he does so frequently about things that I know about) and he said he felt stupid spending our own money so hid it from me -- he even had the item he bought shipped to his work instead of our home so I wouldn't see it.
> I'm quite supportive of his hobby -- it's motorcycles and he has several and frequently goes on long road trips with them, all with my support.
> 
> Last night I asked him if there is something that I have done to make him feel like he has to hide stuff from me, something I need to change -- and he insists that there isn't, he just flat out doesn't like the possibility of confrontation/an 'unnecessary' fight.


*Fear of confrontation, @Ic89 , is an absolute killer!

And as such, I'd like to call my first witness ~ myself, from my earlier days!*


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I agree that they're not white lies, nor are they little. You have every reason to be upset. If it was an anomaly, with a logical reason, then you forgive and move on, but repeatedly lying shows a lack of ability to change and/or no desire to do so.

I think he needs professional help. It's not at all healthy. I totally understand the urge to avoid any risk of disapproval etc, but he can't go on repeating the same script and expecting a different result. One day it's going to be one lie too many.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Sounds like ya'll are putting the guy over a whipping post. 

Yes indeed lies are bad ....very bad

It sounds like he just needs a couple "Come to Jesus" meetings with his wife and some help with the conflict avoidance thing.

Behavior modification ..... not a shovel over the head.

Edit:

Porn....there are the guys who watch it and those that lie and say they don't. Determine it's level of use or non-use based on your own marriage.
It's a hot topic.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

What is this 'hobby' that he spends money on?

Ah, answered, motorcycles.
.....................................................................

He needs to grow a pair and let you know that he wants this outlet [his hobby] to keep his mind and activities occupied.

Most men spend their pin money on 'something' they enjoy, ie, golf, fishing, cars, motorcycles, boats, sporting events, paintings, clothes, 'collections', etc.
So do most women.

I see you id'd the expenditure, it is motorcycles. I was guilty of 'that' myself. Took a bit of heat for it myself. 
Now, mine is boat/fishing expenditures.


Yes, this can get out of hand, it does not sound like his spending is breaking the bank.

I really hate it when men can not stand up for themselves, that they weakly are forced to hide their activities just to keep the peace.

No, he should not hide his spending.
No, you should not be so controlling.

He needs to grow a pair, you need to leave his pair unmolested.
All within reason, of course.
.............................................................................

A strip joint is not a place for married men.
That said, if he only goes once in a blue moon with a group of guys, say a bachelor party, oh well. 
No, he should not lie about it. He did tell you when he returned.

............................................................................

On porn....

This is a common and problematic issue within marriages.

Women use porn too, likely not as often.

It can become addictive and harmful, giving unrealistic expectations from ones mate.

If you keep your husbands sack emptied, he will likely have no use for porn.


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