# I know she lied and now I question everything



## arodathon

My wife and I have been together 7 years, married for 5, we met at the office she still works at.

Things have been great, she is like my one true love and we have a kid together. I've always had 100% trust in her and I know she is hotter than me and I'm probably punching above my weight, but she's always said she doesn't notice when guys stare at her. We've had a few bumps in the road, but it's been mostly great.

But I found out recently that she lied about how many guys she had been with before me, and it's like made me completely rethink everything she's said that I've believed. Why did she feel the need to lie about that, and if she lied about that, what else has she lied about? There is stuff she told me when we met that I just took for granted because I trusted her. But thinking back on it now, there is stuff that doesn't make sense. 

When we met, she was living with her boyfriend, but also seeing a guy at the office behind her boyfriends back. But she told me that her boyfeiend was really controlling and she wanted to leave him but didn't know how, and going with the guy in the office was just a way of having some control over her life and she had ended things with him and he hadn't taken it very well.

Looking back now, these are starting to seem like really big red flags, but at the time I accepted it. But some stuff seems really weird, like if she was going behind her boyfriends back with this guy in the office, and she would go out for drinks with her boyfriend and people from the office, then why wasn't it more secretive? Everyone knew she was going with that guy. Why did they not keep it more hidden?

There are loads of other things that are worrying me now. But I guess I want to know if you think I'm right to be worried, or is the lying about how many guys she'd been with before me is a normal thing to do and I'm exaggerating the issue. I heard that most women lie about it, so maybe it's just that.


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## ccpowerslave

How did you find out? If she’s faithful to you now why does it matter? Maybe she didn’t want to make you feel uncomfortable due to her body count.


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## arodathon

ccpowerslave said:


> How did you find out? If she’s faithful to you now why does it matter? Maybe she didn’t want to make you feel uncomfortable due to her body count.


She told me she'd been with 12 guys before me. But during our relationship she mentioned other guys and it felt like she'd menioned a lot, so I started keeping track. She's mentioned over 20 different guys, and that doesn't include the ones she mentioned before I started keeping track. So I know she is lying about it.


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## arodathon

ccpowerslave said:


> How did you find out? If she’s faithful to you now why does it matter? Maybe she didn’t want to make you feel uncomfortable due to her body count.


The thing is is makes me question a lot of things, including if she has been faithful to me.

My wife has admitted to me on 5 separate occasions that she has kissed another guy. One was a guy at her office, another was a guy she met online, and there were some other guys. Looking back it sounds really bad, but at the time she made me feel like it was my fault for not giving her enough attention and being distant. And I guess I bought it really. And I felt good that she had admitted it to me straight away and unprompted, and I believed her that she felt bad and was sorry. 

Now I'm looking back on that and not knowing what to think. And not knowing if it was just a kiss that happened, since I know she has lied about other stuff.


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## ccpowerslave

arodathon said:


> She told me she'd been with 12 guys before me. But during our relationship she mentioned other guys and it felt like she'd menioned a lot, so I started keeping track. She's mentioned over 20 different guys, and that doesn't include the ones she mentioned before I started keeping track. So I know she is lying about it.


So true number may never be known unless she kept detailed records I suppose.

For a woman reducing the count or for a man inflating the count doesn’t seem off to me. It matters what she has done since you became exclusive.

When you first met her as you say there were perhaps red flags that you overlooked, well now you’re bought in.


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## ccpowerslave

arodathon said:


> My wife has admitted to me on 5 separate occasions that she has kissed another guy. One was a guy at her office, another was a guy she met online, and there were some other guys. Looking back it sounds really bad, but at the time she made me feel like it was my fault for not giving her enough attention and being distant.


Oh man… ok well I’m clocking out here and the normal crew can advise you on this.


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## Chillidog

Sorry op, you will never get the truth...never


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## arodathon

Chillidog said:


> Sorry op, you will never get the truth...never


Do you mean I'll never get the truth about how many guys she's been with? Or in general I'll never get the truth from her?


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## ConanHub

arodathon said:


> The thing is is makes me question a lot of things, including if she has been faithful to me.
> 
> My wife has admitted to me on 5 separate occasions that she has kissed another guy. One was a guy at her office, another was a guy she met online, and there were some other guys. Looking back it sounds really bad, but at the time she made me feel like it was my fault for not giving her enough attention and being distant. And I guess I bought it really. And I felt good that she had admitted it to me straight away and unprompted, and I believed her that she felt bad and was sorry.
> 
> Now I'm looking back on that and not knowing what to think. And not knowing if it was just a kiss that happened, since I know she has lied about other stuff.


Hohoho! Happy Ho-lidays. 😆


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## Chillidog

She gas lighted you about the kissing. Were you married at the time? How is it your fault. BS. She's a serial cheater with her history. All cheaters lie.


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## arodathon

ConanHub said:


> Hohoho! Happy Ho-lidays. 😆


She is still my wife. And at the time I felt like she was being honest about her mistakes. And each incident was at least a year apart.


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## Benbutton

I'd be more concerned with the fact that she has a history of cheating - (yep, the guy at the office), than her body count. The fact she kissed other men while with you is a HUGE issue. None of your concerns should be ignored, in fact I'd be inclined to advise you against having children with her. 

Remember one thing - women will tell you what they are but you have to listen. She told you and you ignored. Time to listen.


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## arodathon

Chillidog said:


> She gas lighted you about the kissing. Were you married at the time? How is it your fault. BS. She's a serial cheater with her history. All cheaters lie.


I don't remember exactly but I think maybe 1 or 2 happened before we were married and the others happened afterwards.
When you say she gaslighed me, you mean because she made it seem like it was my fault? Or because it was more than kissing but she just said kissing to downplay it?


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## arodathon

Benbutton said:


> I'd be more concerned with the fact that she has a history of cheating - (yep, the guy at the office), than her body count. The fact she kissed other men while with you is a HUGE issue. None of your concerns should be ignored, in fact I'd be inclined to advise you against having children with her.
> 
> Remember one thing - women will tell you what they are but you have to listen. She told you and you ignored. Time to listen.


We already have a child.

People do make mistakes though, and I have always tried to give her the benefit of the doubt. And she came forward and told me, so that told me that she regretted it and want to move past it. The fact I know she know lies about stuff makes me wonder, but I can't work out why she would own up to "kissing" them, if she is a "serial cheater".


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## arodathon

Benbutton said:


> I'd be more concerned with the fact that she has a history of cheating - (yep, the guy at the office), than her body count. The fact she kissed other men while with you is a HUGE issue. None of your concerns should be ignored, in fact I'd be inclined to advise you against having children with her.
> 
> Remember one thing - women will tell you what they are but you have to listen. She told you and you ignored. Time to listen.


At the time I thought that she was choose me over 2 other guys! So it mad me feel really confident, you know. 

I could never understand why she was seeing the other guy. He was an ugly, dweeby, little guy from the mail room. He seemed like the last guy in the office that she would go with.


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## ccpowerslave

arodathon said:


> He was an ugly, dweeby, little guy from the mail room. He seemed like the last guy in the office that she would go with.


Maybe he had a massive… stapler?


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## Chillidog

Kissing is crossing a boundry with me. You already know she is not telling you the truth about her body count. Grown adults don't hook up to just kiss.


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## arodathon

ccpowerslave said:


> Maybe he had a massive… stapler?


Well, that's almost better than the worrying theory I came up with. Which is the seems like the LAST guy in the office she would sleep with because he WAS the last guys in the office that she slept with. Maybe she'd slept with a lot of guys in the office and he was just the current one she was on. It sounds like paranoia and maybe it is, but there is some other weird things that don't make sense that point in that direction too.


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## arodathon

Chillidog said:


> Kissing is crossing a boundry with me. You already know she is not telling you the truth about her body count. Grown adults don't hook up to just kiss.


So you think she is lying about just kissing them? You think she did more than that? Again, hy would she admit to it then?


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## arodathon

The only think I could think of was that maybe she did more than kissing but the guy felt guilty afterwards and told her she had to be honest and come clean with me, or he would tell me, maybe. And so she said the least that she thoguht she could get away with.

But then how many guys would feel guilty about going with a married woman? I feel like it would be a small percentage.


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## manwithnoname

More than likely went farther than kissing, because she sounds like a whorible person.


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## arodathon

manwithnoname said:


> More than likely went farther than kissing, because she sounds like a whorible person.


Again, she is still my wife, and I don't actually know anything for certain, except that she lied about her body count.

So further as in she had sex with them? That's obviously what I'm worried about, but I don't want to jump to conclusions.


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## Marc878

Kissing another man while married to you is not a mistake. It’s a decision or choice she made. 
From what I’ve seen kissing usually is sex too.

She was cheating with another guy on her boyfriend before you. They always have an excuse.

Sorry man but you didn’t marry up. You married down. I Suspect you only know the tip of the iceberg.


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## Marc878

arodathon said:


> Again, she is still my wife, and I don't actually know anything for certain, except that she lied about her body count.
> 
> So further as in she had sex with them? That's obviously what I'm worried about, but I don't want to jump to conclusions.


Go online and check your phone bill. I’d bet you’ll be shocked. Like most you don’t want to believe what you’re seeing so you’ll stay in limbo as long as you allow yourself to.


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## arodathon

Marc878 said:


> Kissing another man while married to you is not a mistake. It’s a decision or choice she made.
> From what I’ve seen kissing usually is sex too.
> 
> She was cheating with another guy on her boyfriend before you. They always have an excuse.
> 
> Sorry man but you didn’t marry up. You married down. I Suspect you only know the tip of the iceberg.


That's kinda what I'm worried about, only knowing the tip of the iceberg. If she has done more than kissing and she has has sex with another guy, then I don't see how it can only be just one guy. Because if she admitted to kissing 5 guys, and the "kissing" is actually sex, then she cheated on me with at least 5 guys. And if she cheated, then why did she admit to kissing? Was she forced into it by the guilty guys she cheated with? Including a guy in her office, that maybe knew me from then I worked there?!? But there is no way the majority of men would feel guilty in that way? So how many would? 10%? 5%? If 5% of men would force her to come clean, and she told me about 5 guys, then that would mean she actually cheated on me with like 100 guys, and I only know about 5 of them. But that's crazy right? But realistically, how many men would force her to tell me.

As you far see, I'm goign down a bad rabbit hole.

And all this is not helped by my conspiracy theory that she'd been with more guys in the office than I knew about. Before I got with her and maybe after too.


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## arodathon

Marc878 said:


> Go online and check your phone bill. I’d bet you’ll be shocked. Like most you don’t want to believe what you’re seeing so you’ll stay in limbo as long as you allow yourself to.


I'll do that, but if she is texting on WhatsApp then that won't be on her bill. Or if it is on iMessage.


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## Rus47

arodathon said:


> Well, that's almost better than the worrying theory I came up with. Which is the seems like the LAST guy in the office she would sleep with because he WAS the last guys in the office that she slept with. Maybe she'd slept with a lot of guys in the office and he was just the current one she was on. It sounds like paranoia and maybe it is, but there is some other weird things that don't make sense that point in that direction too.


DNA test your kid and STI test yourself. Did she tell you where she kissed the guys?


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## arodathon

Rus47 said:


> DNA test your kid and STI test yourself. Did she tell you where she kissed the guys?


We've always used condoms except when we were trying to get pregnant. I appreciate your concern, but I'm pretty sure my kid is mine.

I did ask for details about the kissing, but she told me it didn't matter and she didn't want to give me details that I would just obsess over. She didn't tell me who in her office she kissed because she didn't want me to get upset if he ever came up in converstation about her work.


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## Marc878

arodathon said:


> We've always used condoms except when we were trying to get pregnant. I appreciate your concern, but I'm pretty sure my kid is mine.
> 
> I did ask for details about the kissing, but she told me it didn't matter and she didn't want to give me details that I would just obsess over. She didn't tell me who in her office she kissed because she didn't want me to get upset if he ever came up in converstation about her work.


Well if they are in contact don’t look for this to end. Now she wants privacy on who she cheats with. This is cheating btw and a good possibility it’s a lot more.

Sounds like you’ve got yourself stuck. You are a chump only if you allow it.


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## arodathon

Marc878 said:


> Well if they are in contact don’t look for this to end. Now she wants privacy on who she cheats with. This is cheating btw and a good possibility it’s a lot more.
> 
> Sounds like you’ve got yourself stuck. You are a chump only if you allow it.


Well they work in the same office, or they did at the time it happened, I don't know how closely they worked together, because she wouldn't tell me who it was. She said I just had to trust her! Famous last words! But I could really expect him or her to change were they work because of it.

What do you mean by "a good possibility it’s a lot more" what is more than cheating?


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## arodathon

Marc878 said:


> Well if they are in contact don’t look for this to end. Now she wants privacy on who she cheats with. This is cheating btw and a good possibility it’s a lot more.
> 
> Sounds like you’ve got yourself stuck. You are a chump only if you allow it.


I don't actually know anything different I can point to though. So what do I say? I have a problem with the 5 guys you said you kissed? She will say why are you bringing this up now, and you said you had forgiven me back then, what's changed? What do I say? "Some guys on the internet think you are cheating on me?" That will definitely make me look like a chump!


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## Benbutton

arodathon said:


> But then how many guys would feel guilty about going with a married woman? I feel like it would be a small percentage.


You would be wrong.


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## uphillbattle

arodathon said:


> The thing is is makes me question a lot of things, including if she has been faithful to me.
> 
> *My wife has admitted to me on 5 separate occasions that she has kissed another guy.* One was a guy at her office, another was a guy she met online, and there were some other guys. Looking back it sounds really bad, but at the time she made me feel like it was my fault for not giving her enough attention and being distant. And I guess I bought it really. And I felt good that she had admitted it to me straight away and unprompted, and I believed her that she felt bad and was sorry.
> 
> Now I'm looking back on that and not knowing what to think. And not knowing if it was just a kiss that happened, since I know she has lied about other stuff.


WTF 5? 5? One for each year you are married? Why are you still with her?


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## arodathon

Benbutton said:


> You would be wrong.


You think most guys would feel guilty and make her admit it to me? Well that would mean she'd cheated with less men than I fear. So I hope so!


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## arodathon

uphillbattle said:


> WTF 5? 5? One for each year you are married? Why are you still with her?


But 5 over 7 years. As I explained though, I think I've had rose tinted glasses on this whoel time and I feel like I've just taken them off. I believe her that she was sorry and knew straight away it was a mistake. And I believed that it was partially my fault for not showing her enough attention. Might sound crazy now, but it made sense at the time.


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## uphillbattle

arodathon said:


> But 5 over 7 years. As I explained though, I think I've had rose tinted glasses on this whoel time and I feel like I've just taken them off. I believe her that she was sorry and knew straight away it was a mistake. And I believed that it was partially my fault for not showing her enough attention. Might sound crazy now, but it made sense at the time.


Ok, I didn't read past the part about the kissing. I promise you I would give you my next paycheck if she only kissed. Go to the CWI boards and just read a few threads. Your wife is a serial cheater. She checks every single box.


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## Marc878

She like most will never admit much. Mouth shut, eyes and ears open. Check your phones bill online. It’s quick and easy for a first step.

Don’t jump up and confront either.

It just drives it further underground if she is cheating.

keep posting for more information.


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## uphillbattle

Marc878 said:


> She like most will never admit much. Mouth shut, eyes and ears open. Check your phones bill online. It’s quick and easy for a first step.
> 
> Don’t jump up and confront either.
> 
> It just drives it further underground if she is cheating.
> 
> keep posting for more information.


Why worry about catching her, she has admitted to kissing 5 guys. Nothing more should be needed.


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## Diana7

The trouble is that she hasn't just made one mistake but 5. Or should I say at least 5 decisions to kiss(or more) other men. She clearly hasn't regretted it because she keeps on doing it. She will keep on doing it because she hasn't felt any consequences. Lying about her sexual past was a warning which you didn't heed. It's not true that most women lie, the dishonest ones do yes. 
She seems to have no boundaries at all with the opposite sex. She was already cheating when you met her, her excuse was pathetic quite honestly. She then presumably cheated on both of them with you?
If you didn't have a child I would advise divorce because I think she is playing you for a fool. I doubt she will ever stop. Why should she, you do nothing and carry on as if nothing has happened. 

Book her a lie detector test. You may find she has done far more than she said.


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## Marc878

uphillbattle said:


> Why worry about catching her, she has admitted to kissing 5 guys. Nothing more should be needed.


I would agree but unfortunately that’s not how most betrayed spouses see it.


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## Trident

arodathon said:


> I did ask for details about the kissing, but she told me it didn't matter and she didn't want to give me details that I would just obsess over. She didn't tell me who in her office she kissed because she didn't want me to get upset if he ever came up in converstation about her work.


What matters to you isn't of any importance to her. She's protecting the guy she kissed, and putting it all on you and your "obsessing".

The woman clearly has no respect for you and cannot be trusted.


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## jsmart

arodathon said:


> I don't actually know anything different I can point to though. So what do I say? I have a problem with the 5 guys you said you kissed? She will say why are you bringing this up now, and you said you had forgiven me back then, what's changed? What do I say? "Some guys on the internet think you are cheating on me?" That will definitely make me look like a chump!


There is no statue of limitations on enforcing consequences for adultery. Yes that’s right, adultery. Please do not deceive yourself that she only kissed these 5 guys. A loose woman like your wife, does not have firm boundaries that a dominant guy can’t overcome with a little charm. It is very likely that she’s had sex or given BJs to these guys. 

You should insist that she get a new job. Not that it will matter to a woman like your wife. Most women are not emotionally able to be sexually intimate with more than one guy at a time but you married a woman that is very comfortable getting intimate with different men within a short period of time. The red flags were there all along but you’ve allowed her looks to blind you. An unfaithful wife is not very desirable, so stop thinking that she’s above your “weight class”.


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## uphillbattle

Marc878 said:


> I would agree but unfortunately that’s not how most betrayed spouses see it.


Wtf os wrong with people.


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## arodathon

uphillbattle said:


> Ok, I didn't read past the part about the kissing. I promise you I would give you my next paycheck if she only kissed. Go to the CWI boards and just read a few threads. Your wife is a serial cheater. She checks every single box.


So you think she said cheating, but actually she slept with them? Why did she admit to kissing them then? I didn't know about it, there was no reason for her to come forward


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## arodathon

Marc878 said:


> She like most will never admit much. Mouth shut, eyes and ears open. Check your phones bill online. It’s quick and easy for a first step.
> 
> Don’t jump up and confront either.
> 
> It just drives it further underground if she is cheating.
> 
> keep posting for more information.


As I said above, I'll check the phone bill, but don't think that will show much. She is probably using WhatsApp or iMessage, neither of which show up on a phone bill. She might call I guess but she prefers to text.


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## Trident

arodathon said:


> So you think she said cheating, but actually she slept with them? Why did she admit to kissing them then? I didn't know about it, there was no reason for her to come forward


It's called "trickle truth" and it stems from guilt.


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## sideways

As Diana mentioned make her take a polygraph


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## Marc878

arodathon said:


> As I said above, I'll check the phone bill, but don't think that will show much. She is probably using WhatsApp or iMessage, neither of which show up on a phone bill. She might call I guess but she prefers to text.


If it’s a workplace affair they are the hardest to detect, monitor. A Voice Activated Recorder in her car maybe an option.

Does she guard her phone ?


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## arodathon

jsmart said:


> There is no statue of limitations on enforcing consequences for adultery. Yes that’s right, adultery. Please do not deceive yourself that she only kissed these 5 guys. A loose woman like your wife, does not have firm boundaries that a dominant guy can’t overcome with a little charm. It is very likely that she’s had sex or given BJs to these guys.
> 
> You should insist that she get a new job. Not that it will matter to a woman like your wife. Most women are not emotionally able to be sexually intimate with more than one guy at a time but you married a woman that is very comfortable getting intimate with different men within a short period of time. The red flags were there all along but you’ve allowed her looks to blind you. An unfaithful wife is not very desirable, so stop thinking that she’s above your “weight class”.


I do agree that I've always been "blinded by her looks", she's got a reality distortion field and big boobs can be very convincing.

I don't mean to offend anyone, but I don't really buy into a lot of the MRA Red Pill stuff that some replies sound a bit like. I don't think you can boil every woman's behaviour down to a formula, like women lose the ability to pair bond and that nonsense. Not saying anyone has gone down that road, I'm just putting it out there.


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## arodathon

Trident said:


> It's called "trickle truth" and it stems from guilt.


But if its trickle truth then wouldn't there have been more trickling? Woudln't she have revealed more information, bit by bit?


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## arodathon

Marc878 said:


> If it’s a workplace affair they are the hardest to detect, monitor. A Voice Activated Recorder in her car maybe an option.
> 
> Does she guard her phone ?


She has a lock on her phone and she always keeps it with her, mainly because she is always on it.


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## arodathon

Marc878 said:


> If it’s a workplace affair they are the hardest to detect, monitor. A Voice Activated Recorder in her car maybe an option.
> 
> Does she guard her phone ?


So I'm right to be worried about guys from her office that she might have been with from before we got together? Or do you think I just need to worry about that one guy?


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## arodathon

sideways said:


> As Diana mentioned make her take a polygraph


I'm in the UK, don't know how easy it is to do that. And I thought they were nonsense anyway, aren't they?


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## Trident

As far as polygraphs go, parking lot confessions can be fruitful.

As far as trickle truthing goes, who knows what it takes to ease some of the guilt. 

If she thinks you'd draw the line at kissing and accept nothing more then she'd be hesitant to supply that particular bit of information, wouldn't you think?


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## arodathon

Trident said:


> As far as polygraphs go, parking lot confessions can be fruitful.
> 
> As far as trickle truthing goes, who knows what it takes to ease some of the guilt.
> 
> If she thinks you'd draw the line at kissing and accept nothing more then she'd be hesitant to supply that particular bit of information, wouldn't you think?


Right, but why supply it at all. You all seem to think she is the kind of woman that can't help herself but cheat, and doesn't care about me. If that is the case, why did she admit to kissing? I'm not trying to be funny, I'm geuninely trying to work it out. I agree that given everything, I think it might be the case that she did more than kiss them, and if she slept with them, all of them, then I don't understand why she would admit to kissing, but some guy was forcing her to come clean.


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## TAMAT

Arodathon,

You wrote, *Why did she admit to kissing them then? *

Possibly because she did much more and admitted to a lesser crime in case the OM ratted on her.

Seriously can you imagine yourself kissing some number of woman and your WW being ok with it?

Your WW seems to have duped you and has an explanation or excuse for everything.

For now keep your mouth shut and your eyes and ears open.

Did she ever say to you "I love you but am not in love with you?"

BTW serial cheaters do not make mistakes they make a habit of cheating it's what they do and it is practiced and intentional. They often have elaborate mechanisms for avoiding blame, hiding and shifting blame onto their spouse. 

DNA your child this is paramount, also STD testing.


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## Marc878

arodathon said:


> Right, but why supply it at all. You all seem to think she is the kind of woman that can't help herself but cheat, and doesn't care about me. If that is the case, why did she admit to kissing? I'm not trying to be funny, I'm geuninely trying to work it out. I agree that given everything, I think it might be the case that she did more than kiss them, and if she slept with them, all of them, then I don't understand why she would admit to kissing, but some guy was forcing her to come clean.


It’s not uncommon to admit to a lesser crime. Read a few here. You’ll get the gist.


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## Diana7

arodathon said:


> I do agree that I've always been "blinded by her looks", she's got a reality distortion field and big boobs can be very convincing.
> 
> I don't mean to offend anyone, but I don't really buy into a lot of the MRA Red Pill stuff that some replies sound a bit like. I don't think you can boil every woman's behaviour down to a formula, like women lose the ability to pair bond and that nonsense. Not saying anyone has gone down that road, I'm just putting it out there.


I don't think people are saying every woman is the same or meets some formula, but that your wife has more red flags than China, and has shown you from the time you met that she isn't going to be faithful. 
I think you are being very naive. If she has kissed 5 men already it's highly likely that there was at the very least some sexual touching. It's also a given that she will carry on with this behaviour. 

I also think it's pretty pathetic that you overlook who she is purely because she has large breasts. I mean come on. So she can act how she likes because of that????

Plus don't ever let her blame you. Her excuse us pathetic. Oh I had to kiss all these men because you weren't giving me enough attention. I mean really???


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## arodathon

TAMAT said:


> Arodathon,
> 
> You wrote, *Why did she admit to kissing them then? *
> 
> Possibly because she did much more and admitted to a lesser crime in case the OM ratted on her.
> 
> Seriously can you imagine yourself kissing some number of woman and your WW being ok with it?
> 
> Your WW seems to have duped you and has an explanation or excuse for everything.
> 
> For now keep your mouth shut and your eyes and ears open.
> 
> Did she ever say to you "I love you but am not in love with you?"
> 
> BTW serial cheaters do not make mistakes they make a habit of cheating it's what they do and it is practiced and intentional. They often have elaborate mechanisms for avoiding blame, hiding and shifting blame onto their spouse.
> 
> DNA your child this is paramount, also STD testing.


No, she has never said "I love you but I'm not in love with you".

"Possibly because she did much more and admitted to a lesser crime in case the OM ratted on her."
That's exactly what I'm saying too! The only think that makes sense is that he forced her to come clean, and she did, but only came clean to cheating, but could go back to him and say "I told him" with a straight face.

That the only thing that makes sense. But that means the 5 I know about are only the 5 were the guys felt guilty and that seems like it would only be a fraction.

I'm just trying to get a handle on how big this "iceberg" is, if I can only see the tip. Because it seems like, either I'm paranoid and making a big deal out of nothing (which I think is still possible), or she's cheated on me with anywhere between dozens and a hundred guys and I only know about 5 times because the guy felt guilty.

Not a great place to be in. But until I have more proof, I've already forgiven her for the kissing of the 5 guys, so I need to know more before I say anything.

I mean if I'm honest there are a bunch of other weird things, things that don't make sense and red flags, but you all already think I'm an idiot, so that would just tip it over the edge.


----------



## Diana7

arodathon said:


> I'm in the UK, don't know how easy it is to do that. And I thought they were nonsense anyway, aren't they?


Do some research. They are not 100% accurate but she may even confess just before the appt.


----------



## Diana7

arodathon said:


> No, she has never said "I love you but I'm not in love with you".
> 
> "Possibly because she did much more and admitted to a lesser crime in case the OM ratted on her."
> That's exactly what I'm saying too! The only think that makes sense is that he forced her to come clean, and she did, but only came clean to cheating, but could go back to him and say "I told him" with a straight face.
> 
> That the only thing that makes sense. But that means the 5 I know about are only the 5 were the guys felt guilty and that seems like it would only be a fraction.
> 
> I'm just trying to get a handle on how big this "iceberg" is, if I can only see the tip. Because it seems like, either I'm paranoid and making a big deal out of nothing (which I think is still possible), or she's cheated on me with anywhere between dozens and a hundred guys and I only know about 5 times because the guy felt guilty.
> 
> Not a great place to be in. But until I have more proof, I've already forgiven her for the kissing of the 5 guys, so I need to know more before I say anything.
> 
> I mean if I'm honest there are a bunch of other weird things, things that don't make sense and red flags, but you all already think I'm an idiot, so that would just tip it over the edge.


Not an idiot, but very naive.

How can you be making a big deal out of nothing when she has already at the very least kissed 5 other men. That alone is bad enough.

What are the other red flags?


----------



## arodathon

Diana7 said:


> I don't think people are saying every woman is the same or meets some formula, but that your wife has more red flags than China, and has shown you from the time you met that she isn't going to be faithful.
> I think you are being very naive. If she has kissed 5 men already it's highly likely that there was at the very least some sexual touching. It's also a given that she will carry on with this behaviour.
> 
> I also think it's pretty pathetic that you overlook who she is purely because she has large breasts. I mean come on. So she can act how she likes because of that????
> 
> Plus don't ever let her blame you. Her excuse us pathetic. Oh I had to kiss all these men because you weren't giving me enough attention. I mean really???


My point was that when you are really into someone, it can blind you to the truth. And my wife has really big boobs, and that was definitely something that I was caught in a tractor beam a little bit when we met. She was the hottest woman in the office, by far, and I couldn't believe she was talking to me and seemed to be interested in me. I knew she had a boyfriend and there was this other guy in the office that she may or may not have broken up with, but I was very keen to sleep with her and all those just seemed like obsticle to overcome. And then I got a sob story from her really, and I just wanted to rescue her from what seemed like a bad situation. And I felt like she was choosing me over 2 other guys, and that felt good.

I realise as a woman Diana, that doesn't make sense, and I probably sound like a pathetic idiot. But the tractor beam pull of big boobs can be powerful!


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

arodathon said:


> But if its trickle truth then wouldn't there have been more trickling? Woudln't she have revealed more information, bit by bit?


There might be more trickling if you confront her on it again. Then if she reveals a little more information, the trickling begins. While she feels you believe her first story, she doesn't need to say more.


----------



## Diana7

arodathon said:


> My point was that whenIf you are really into someone, it can blind you to the truth. And my wife has really big boobs, and that was definitely something that I was caught in a tractor beam a little bit when we met. She was the hottest woman in the office, by far, and I couldn't believe she was talking to me and seemed to be interested in me. I knew she had a boyfriend and there was this other guy in the office that she may or may not have broken up with, but I was very keen to sleep with her and all those just seemed like obsticle to overcome. And then I got a sob story from her really, and I just wanted to rescue her from what seemed like a bad situation. And I felt like she was choosing me over 2 other guys, and that felt good.
> 
> I realise as a woman Diana, that doesn't make sense, and I probably sound like a pathetic idiot. But the tractor beam pull of big boobs can be powerful!


Yes it does sound crazy to be honest. To me a person's good character is vital. You totally over looked that and married a woman because of the size if her boobs. Now you are paying the price.
The fact that she was in relationship s with 2 other men, one of whom she was living with when she started chasing you was a massive warning. I suspect her live in partner was 'controlling' due to her chasing other men. He had a lucky escape.


----------



## jlg07

arodathon said:


> You think most guys would feel guilty and make her admit it to me? Well that would mean she'd cheated with less men than I fear. So I hope so!


No it means that someone(s) probably threatened to tell you about those guys (maybe even the guy himself if SHE blew him off afterwards) so she wanted to beat them to the punch to tell you "they just kissed" and tell THEM "I already told him and he forgave me"
She protected THOSE guys instead of protecting YOU -- YOU are the one she should have told the entire truth to, but decided not to.

As for "why bring this up now" -- you tell her because she BS'ed you then, you have NEVER gotten over it because it IS cheating, and that she just rug swept it. You no longer are willing to rug sweep, so you want to know the truth.
You COULD even push to have her take a polygraph test, but at this point maybe a bit premature.

Have you looked through her phone when she isn't around?


----------



## jlg07

arodathon said:


> But if its trickle truth then wouldn't there have been more trickling? Woudln't she have revealed more information, bit by bit?


No because YOU bought in to what she said the first time, so no further info was required.


----------



## arodathon

Diana7 said:


> Not an idiot, but very naive.
> 
> How can you be making a big deal out of nothing when she has already at the very least kissed 5 other men. That alone is bad enough.
> 
> What are the other red flags?


Ok it might be bad, but it would be hard to go back and open the book back up on them for no reason.

The red flags, well more weird things that didn't make much sense:

She knew a lot of the gossip in the office and she would tell me some gossip and rumour and stuff and who was sleeping with who and things. But a lot of it didn't make much sense, but I just ignored that feeling. One I remember specifically was she said that this female manager and a male upper manager, who were both married, were hooking up, and one time she went into his office, went under the desk and was giving him a blowjob under the desk, when another manager came in and she had to keep still under the desk until he left. Ok, sexy bit of gossip.... except the woman that she said did this made no sense. She was a middle aged, straight laced, married woman. I could see the male manager doing that, but not the female manager really. It didn't make much sense. 

A lot of the gossip involved this female investigator, who she made out to be really slutty. According to her, she was shagging most of the managers in the office and would go home with guys when they went out drinking after work. She said she that once, after a night out, picked up a homeless man that was begging on the street, took him home, gave him a shower, had sex with him and then sent him on his way. Pretty wild and disgusting stuff. The woman who was going all this stuff was (not meaning to be judgmental, just trying to paint a picture) an ugly, fat, middle aged woman. Not that she couldn't have been really slutty, but I don't think that many men would have wanted to have sex with her, even if she put it on a plate. Also, my wife (my girlfriend at the time) and her, hated each other. Which makes me think, how did she find out this information? Why would she have told anyone this? None of it makes sense.

Of course the worrying thing, is what if all those stories weren't about those other women, they were actually about stuff she'd done! Which fits with what I was saying about the dweeby guy being the last guy she'd go with in the office because she had actually been with everyone else.

I really don't want to believe this, because if she did all the things that she attributed to that woman, well that is messed up. But now the rose tinited glasses are off, I'm questioning everything.

Please feel free to tell me I'm talking nonsense.


----------



## arodathon

arodathon said:


> Ok it might be bad, but it would be hard to go back and open the book back up on them for no reason.
> 
> The red flags, well more weird things that didn't make much sense:
> 
> She knew a lot of the gossip in the office and she would tell me some gossip and rumour and stuff and who was sleeping with who and things. But a lot of it didn't make much sense, but I just ignored that feeling. One I remember specifically was she said that this female manager and a male upper manager, who were both married, were hooking up, and one time she went into his office, went under the desk and was giving him a blowjob under the desk, when another manager came in and she had to keep still under the desk until he left. Ok, sexy bit of gossip.... except the woman that she said did this made no sense. She was a middle aged, straight laced, married woman. I could see the male manager doing that, but not the female manager really. It didn't make much sense.
> 
> A lot of the gossip involved this female investigator, who she made out to be really slutty. According to her, she was shagging most of the managers in the office and would go home with guys when they went out drinking after work. She said she that once, after a night out, picked up a homeless man that was begging on the street, took him home, gave him a shower, had sex with him and then sent him on his way. Pretty wild and disgusting stuff. The woman who was going all this stuff was (not meaning to be judgmental, just trying to paint a picture) an ugly, fat, middle aged woman. Not that she couldn't have been really slutty, but I don't think that many men would have wanted to have sex with her, even if she put it on a plate. Also, my wife (my girlfriend at the time) and her, hated each other. Which makes me think, how did she find out this information? Why would she have told anyone this? None of it makes sense.
> 
> Of course the worrying thing, is what if all those stories weren't about those other women, they were actually about stuff she'd done! Which fits with what I was saying about the dweeby guy being the last guy she'd go with in the office because she had actually been with everyone else.
> 
> I really don't want to believe this, because if she did all the things that she attributed to that woman, well that is messed up. But now the rose tinited glasses are off, I'm questioning everything.
> 
> Please feel free to tell me I'm talking nonsense.


Oh! I forgot to say! Relatedly, she befriended a homless man when we had been living together a year or so. Took pity on him, took him to a cafe and bought him food and drink. And I felt werid about, but she made it seem like she was doing a nice thing. Other weird stuff happend with him, but thats probably enough for now.


----------



## arodathon

jlg07 said:


> No it means that someone(s) probably threatened to tell you about those guys (maybe even the guy himself if SHE blew him off afterwards) so she wanted to beat them to the punch to tell you "they just kissed" and tell THEM "I already told him and he forgave me"
> She protected THOSE guys instead of protecting YOU -- YOU are the one she should have told the entire truth to, but decided not to.
> 
> As for "why bring this up now" -- you tell her because she BS'ed you then, you have NEVER gotten over it because it IS cheating, and that she just rug swept it. You no longer are willing to rug sweep, so you want to know the truth.
> You COULD even push to have her take a polygraph test, but at this point maybe a bit premature.
> 
> Have you looked through her phone when she isn't around?


I can't she always has her phone with her and it's locked.


----------



## jlg07

arodathon said:


> I can't she always has her phone with her and it's locked.


Another HUGE red flag. Do you know her password? Does she tend to sit in one spot and do a lot of texting while you are there (IOW, could you get a spy cam setup to WATCH what she is texting)?
Have you looked the phone bill (YES she could use other apps, but she COULD be texting also). Do you have access to a device other than her phone that is linked to her iPhone? I've read that you can see texts and activity on a synched device.
Also get a couple of VARS and put them in her car (do a search here about how to do that) and maybe in a room or two that you know she goes to have phone conversations....

You COULD always hire a PI to watch her on the nights out with her workers (are YOU there with her all the time? Not sure if you work at the same company -- and BTW, if even HALF of the stories she told you about hookups are true, that is a crap company to work for).

Oh, and her kissing other guys is 100% on HER -- NOTHING to do with you or the "you were ignoring me" BS that she told you.


----------



## arodathon

jlg07 said:


> Another HUGE red flag. Do you know her password? Does she tend to sit in one spot and do a lot of texting while you are there (IOW, could you get a spy cam setup to WATCH what she is texting)?
> Have you looked the phone bill (YES she could use other apps, but she COULD be texting also). Do you have access to a device other than her phone that is linked to her iPhone? I've read that you can see texts and activity on a synched device.
> Also get a couple of VARS and put them in her car (do a search here about how to do that) and maybe in a room or two that you know she goes to have phone conversations....
> 
> You COULD always hire a PI to watch her on the nights out with her workers (are YOU there with her all the time? Not sure if you work at the same company -- and BTW, if even HALF of the stories she told you about hookups are true, that is a crap company to work for).
> 
> Oh, and her kissing other guys is 100% on HER -- NOTHING to do with you or the "you were ignoring me" BS that she told you.


Its a government department. I used to work there, that's how we met, I don't now.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Kissing is cheating. Why are you ok with that? Also kissing is usually what cheaters say they were doing when they were really having sex. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Enigma32

Incidents of infidelity are often more prolific than they appear. If you know of a few things that have happened, you can be sure there are many other events that you have no knowledge of.


----------



## Casual Observer

arodathon said:


> Right, but why supply it at all. You all seem to think she is the kind of woman that can't help herself but cheat, and doesn't care about me. If that is the case, why did she admit to kissing? I'm not trying to be funny, I'm geuninely trying to work it out. I agree that given everything, I think it might be the case that she did more than kiss them, and if she slept with them, all of them, then I don't understand why she would admit to kissing, but some guy was forcing her to come clean.


Could be that she's testing the waters, trying to figure out how careful, or not, she needs to be. How gullible you are. That's a really terrible thing for me to have to type, but that could be her thinking. How gullible is my husband. 

Overall, once I saw that she admitted to kissing another guy, that was it for me. Game over, this is just not allowed in a marriage unless specifically stated it was ok (as in an open marriage or some such). You seem to believe there should be boundaries, but you've apparently never stated them. She's taking advantage of that.


----------



## In Absentia

Sounds to me your wife has some mental disorder... or she's picked you as the safe option to have a child with whilst she carries on as usual, shagging other men... still, a pretty bad situation.


----------



## manowar

Benbutton said:


> women will tell you what they are but you have to listen. She told you and you ignored. Time to listen.


You failed to listen. That's on you. You don't have this skill apparently.


arodathon said:


> that she was choose me over 2 other guys! So it mad me feel really confident, you know.


she probably saw you as a better deal at that particular time. Now who knows. women are always looking for a better deal.


arodathon said:


> except that she lied about her body count.


No way its 12. Women lie about this. The rule of thumb is to multiply by 3. This is a self-preservation technique and is common in this age. She'll tell you what she thinks you'll believe.



arodathon said:


> That's kinda what I'm worried about, only knowing the tip of the iceberg.


Stop freaking out. You are emotional and have to get your wits about you and learn the game. How to investigate without tipping your hand. Dont do anything for the time being. And dont say anything to her about your suspicions.




arodathon said:


> I think I've had rose tinted glasses on this whoel time and I feel like I've just taken them off.


That's not entirely true. You always knew in your gut.



arodathon said:


> *I don't really buy into a lot of the MRA Red Pill* stuff that some replies sound a bit like. I don't think you can boil every woman's behaviour down to a formula, like women lose the ability to pair bond and that nonsense. Not saying anyone has gone down that road, I'm just putting it out there.


Again that's on you. It's clear you know nothing about female nature. The basics of RP is female psych. 



arodathon said:


> I couldn't believe she was talking to me and seemed to be interested in me.


Why not. Is she a goddess or Princess? Its in your head. right off the bat you put her ahead of you. RP would have helped you here brother, but I guess you prefer listening to your clergyman. You won the prize.



arodathon said:


> I couldn't believe she was talking to me and seemed to be interested in me. I knew she had a boyfriend and there was this other guy in the office that she may or may not have broken up


Women are never completely single. They always have someone in some shape or form. Orbiters, friends, FWB, bfs who are not up to spec. This means nothing. Again RP would have helped you in your thinking.



arodathon said:


> I just ignored that feeling


 You ignored a lot of negative signs. You have finally had your awakening and possibly the last to know.


----------



## MattMatt

You'd be surprised what female office staff tell their colleagues about themselves. Really dreadful, nasty stuff.


----------



## arodathon

3Xnocharm said:


> Kissing is cheating. Why are you ok with that? Also kissing is usually what cheaters say they were doing when they were really having sex.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You all seem to be getting the wrong idea. I'm not "ok" with the fact she kissed those guys. It was a big deal, it hurt and I told her it was not ok. I get that is was technically "cheating", and clearly you all see it as a complete deal breaker. I hated it, but part of my thought well at least she didn't slept with them, at least she stopped it there and it didn't go any further. And that is what she told me, that she was feeling unloved and like I was ignoring her and focussing on work, and someone paid her attention and seemed nice, and kissed her and she didn't pull away as quickly as she should have. And she felt awful about it and know she had to immediately tell me. 

That's how she pitched it to me. And I know that guys much pay her attention and hit on her a lot, and I could see one of them trying to steal a kiss and her not reacting quickly enough and then feeling guilty. 

Now, looking back and with everything you've said, I see that her version of events are probably unlikely, and there is a good chance that she did actually sleep with those 5 guys, and maybe more, and potentially A LOT more. But none of that was in my head at the time. 

I try to give people and her especially, the benefit of the doubt. She's not always had the best time of it in her life, and she's had some really ****ty boyfriends in the past, if what she said can be believed and I wanted to show her support and love and to forgive difficult situations that she got herself in. 

Again I realise now that was probably not true, but I didn't know that at the time.


----------



## arodathon

MattMatt said:


> You'd be surprised what female office staff tell their colleagues about themselves. Really dreadful, nasty stuff.


You saying this from experience? 
So you think that those stories she was telling me about those other women where actually about her? Because that does really worry me.


----------



## arodathon

Casual Observer said:


> Could be that she's testing the waters, trying to figure out how careful, or not, she needs to be. How gullible you are. That's a really terrible thing for me to have to type, but that could be her thinking. How gullible is my husband.
> 
> Overall, once I saw that she admitted to kissing another guy, that was it for me. Game over, this is just not allowed in a marriage unless specifically stated it was ok (as in an open marriage or some such). You seem to believe there should be boundaries, but you've apparently never stated them. She's taking advantage of that.


Maybe thats it. But if I had reacted like you all did and would have dumped her on the spot for kissing a guy, then that wouldn't have been a very good testing of the waters. So I'm not sure if that is it


----------



## arodathon

In Absentia said:


> Sounds to me your wife has some mental disorder... or she's picked you as the safe option to have a child with whilst she carries on as usual, shagging other men... still, a pretty bad situation.


That's a bit far isn't it?! You think she has a mental disorder? What mental disorder do you think she has? 
Do all women that cheat have a mental disorder, or just my wife?


----------



## arodathon

manowar said:


> Again that's on you. It's clear you know nothing about female nature. The basics of RP is female psych.


This is the sort of Red Pill nonsense I was worried about. Women aren't strange creatures that somehow work differently. They are people, some people cheat, some people don't. My wife, whether she cheated or not, is not indicative of all women.


----------



## arodathon

manowar said:


> No way its 12. Women lie about this. The rule of thumb is to multiply by 3. This is a self-preservation technique and is common in this age. She'll tell you what she thinks you'll believe.


Yes, I know that, that's what I said. I know she lied about how many guys she had been with. I counted over 20 different guys that she mentioned and that doesn't include the guys she mentioned before I started keeping track. So I would guess at least 30 guys that she has mentioned during the course of our relationship. So I guess that is her number multiplied by 3. 

However, none of the guys she mentioned where guys at the office, so if I'm right that she'd been with more guys at the office than she admitted to, then that would increase that number, potentially by a lot! It makes sense that she wouldn't want to mention guys in the office, incase I got jealous of them or asked more questions.


----------



## MattMatt

arodathon said:


> You saying this from experience?
> So you think that those stories she was telling me about those other women where actually about her? Because that does really worry me.


Your wife might just have been passing gossip on.


----------



## In Absentia

arodathon said:


> That's a bit far isn't it?! You think she has a mental disorder? What mental disorder do you think she has?
> Do all women that cheat have a mental disorder, or just my wife?


Not all women who cheat have a mental disorder, obviously. But your wife's behaviour is a bit weird, with all that strange office gossip and the stuff with the homeless man - you say it was even weirder than what you posted here. Also, this kissing thing and trying to gaslight you with lies, basically. Is this a normal behaviour? I don't know how you define "normal", but it's all a bit odd. But maybe I'm indeed pushing it too far. This is what you get when you marry a pretty woman with big ones...


----------



## arodathon

MattMatt said:


> Your wife might just have been passing gossip on.


Yeah, but loads of things don't make sense with that. Like one specific one I remember was the she said a female manager and a male upper manager were hooking up, and she would go into his office and go under his desk and suck him off. And one time another manager came in, and she had to stay under the desk and be quiet until he left.

The problem is that the women she said did this was a middle aged straight laced, married woman, and it just made no sense that she would be like that, at all. To be honest, getting down on her hands and knees under a desk seemed a bit past her!

I would totally believe that the male manager would do that, but not her. 

Also, where did she hear this from? The women? They didn't know each other well enough. The guy? He wouldn't want it known he was having an affair. None of it makes sense.... but if it was her.... it makes total sense. She does like giving blow jobs, that is totally something she would do, and that explains why she knew about it! So now I have to add that upper manager to the list of guys in the office that she probably slept with, or at least sucked off.

He was older, probably in his 50's married, mostly grey, overweight, but tall, gruff and imposing. While I hate to admit it, her going with him makes a lot more sense than the dweeby mail room guy.


----------



## arodathon

In Absentia said:


> Not all women who cheat have a mental disorder, obviously. But your wife's behaviour is a bit weird, with all that strange office gossip and the stuff with the homeless man - you say it was even weirder than what you posted here. Also, this kissing thing and trying to gaslight you with lies, basically. Is this a normal behaviour? I don't know how you define "normal", but it's all a bit odd. But maybe I'm indeed pushing it too far. This is what you get when you marry a pretty woman with big ones...


Yeah, I agree it's odd, I mean that's why I'm posting here after all. Just wasn't sure if that counts as a mental disorder, but I don't know, I'm not an expert. I guess I'm still weirdly protective and defensive of my wife, even after all this.

The weird stufff with the homeless man was that she would meet up with every week, to buy him some food and check he was ok. I was wary of him, but he did genuinely seem like a nice guy who was just down on his luck, and I didn't want to judge him just because he was homeless. He was from Newcastle the same town in the North of England that my wife is from and she said that he remind her of her brother and so felt protective of him. So she met up with him after work one day a week, in the cafe just up the road, but she finished work earlier than I did, so they would have been in the cafe for about an hour before I got there. We ended up giving him some money so that he could buy some magazine that he could sell to earn more money. We didn't see him for a few weeks after that, so it seemed like he might have fallen off the wagon. A few month later he turned up again, she said she ran into him and she started meeting up again with him. We ended up giving him some more money and then he disappeared and we never saw him again.

The really weird thing was that one time he turn up outside our flat randomly. He was being really weird and my wife was being really weird, and he wanted to come in but I said no, he couldn't come in and he had to leave. I assumed at the time she was being weird because she knew he was wrong that he had come to our flat, and he felt guilty because she was the one that befriended him. But now, thinking back on it, I don't know. Also, I only realised this when I thought back on it recently, but who did he know where we lived?!?!? I'd told her not to tell him where we lived, in case he robbed us. We lived on the same road as the cafe, so maybe he saw us going into the flat, but I don't know.

At the time I thought is was just an example of her being too trusting and seeing the good in people when she should be more wary. But thinking back, given the story about the woman in the office that apparently took a homeless guy home, at it not making sense how my wife would know that, it does seem an odd coincidence.


----------



## Rus47

arodathon said:


> We've always used condoms except when we were trying to get pregnant. I appreciate your concern, but I'm pretty sure my kid is mine.
> 
> I* did ask for details about the kissing, but she told me it didn't matter and she didn't want to give me details that I would just obsess over*. She didn't tell me who in her office she kissed because she didn't want me to get upset if he ever came up in converstation about her work.


(1) So, I am betting she didn't kiss them on the mouth only.
How could you accept that answer??!! If I ever had learned my wife kissed another, my assumption would be they went beyond that and the marriage would be history. It isn't up to her to say she won't give you details. If you are ok being "pretty sure" you are father of the kid, so be it.

(2) She is still working at the place where she has gone through all of the men at least once? The ugly guy in the mail room likely one of the last, but if he has attributes not evident with his pants on, it won't be last with him. There is nothing to stop her from continuing extracurricular activities.


----------



## Rus47

arodathon said:


> But 5 over 7 years. As I explained though, I think I've had rose tinted glasses on this whoel time and I feel like I've just taken them off. I believe her that she was sorry and knew straight away it was a mistake. And I believed that it was partially my fault for not showing her enough attention. Might sound crazy now, but it made sense at the time.


This is called blame shifting. Nothing SHE did wasYOUR fault. Full stop. You unfortunately were carried away and married a lying serial cheating wayward.


----------



## In Absentia

arodathon said:


> Yeah, I agree it's odd, I mean that's why I'm posting here after all. Just wasn't sure if that counts as a mental disorder, but I don't know, I'm not an expert. I guess I'm still weirdly protective and defensive of my wife, even after all this.
> 
> The weird stufff with the homeless man was that she would meet up with every week, to buy him some food and check he was ok. I was wary of him, but he did genuinely seem like a nice guy who was just down on his luck, and I didn't want to judge him just because he was homeless. He was from Newcastle the same town in the North of England that my wife is from and she said that he remind her of her brother and so felt protective of him. So she met up with him after work one day a week, in the cafe just up the road, but she finished work earlier than I did, so they would have been in the cafe for about an hour before I got there. We ended up giving him some money so that he could buy some magazine that he could sell to earn more money. We didn't see him for a few weeks after that, so it seemed like he might have fallen off the wagon. A few month later he turned up again, she said she ran into him and she started meeting up again with him. We ended up giving him some more money and then he disappeared and we never saw him again.
> 
> The really weird thing was that one time he turn up outside our flat randomly. He was being really weird and my wife was being really weird, and he wanted to come in but I said no, he couldn't come in and he had to leave. I assumed at the time she was being weird because she knew he was wrong that he had come to our flat, and he felt guilty because she was the one that befriended him. But now, thinking back on it, I don't know. Also, I only realised this when I thought back on it recently, but who did he know where we lived?!?!? I'd told her not to tell him where we lived, in case he robbed us. We lived on the same road as the cafe, so maybe he saw us going into the flat, but I don't know.
> 
> At the time I thought is was just an example of her being too trusting and seeing the good in people when she should be more wary. But thinking back, given the story about the woman in the office that apparently took a homeless guy home, at it not making sense how my wife would know that, it does seem an odd coincidence.


well, all of this is pretty weird...


----------



## Rus47

Diana7 said:


> *The trouble is that she hasn't just made one mistake but 5.* Or should I say at least 5 decisions to kiss(or more) other men. She clearly hasn't regretted it because she keeps on doing it. She will keep on doing it because she hasn't felt any consequences. Lying about her sexual past was a warning which you didn't heed. It's not true that most women lie, the dishonest ones do yes.
> She seems to have no boundaries at all with the opposite sex. She was already cheating when you met her, her excuse was pathetic quite honestly. She then presumably cheated on both of them with you?
> If you didn't have a child I would advise divorce because I think she is playing you for a fool. I doubt she will ever stop. Why should she, you do nothing and carry on as if nothing has happened.
> 
> Book her a lie detector test. You may find she has done far more than she said.


Bet it more like 50 ( or five hundred ). Mistake??!! Come on!


----------



## Rus47

arodathon said:


> Yeah, but loads of things don't make sense with that. Like one specific one I remember was the she said a female manager and a male upper manager were hooking up, and she would go into his office and go under his desk and suck him off. And one time another manager came in, and she had to stay under the desk and be quiet until he left.
> 
> The problem is that the women she said did this was a middle aged straight laced, married woman, and it just made no sense that she would be like that, at all. To be honest, getting down on her hands and knees under a desk seemed a bit past her!
> 
> I would totally believe that the male manager would do that, but not her.
> 
> Also, where did she hear this from? The women? They didn't know each other well enough. The guy? He wouldn't want it known he was having an affair. None of it makes sense.... but if it was her.... it makes total sense. She does like giving blow jobs, that is totally something she would do, and that explains why she knew about it! So now I have to add that upper manager to the list of guys in the office that she probably slept with, or at least sucked off.
> 
> He was older, probably in his 50's married, mostly grey, overweight, but tall, gruff and imposing. While I hate to admit it, her going with him makes a lot more sense than the dweeby mail room guy.


How about if your wife was describing what SHE was doing under the desk and ascribing it to another?


----------



## Rus47

arodathon said:


> She has a lock on her phone and she always keeps it with her, mainly because she is always on it.


Red flag! Big one!


----------



## Rus47

arodathon said:


> My point was that when you are really into someone, it can blind you to the truth. And my wife has really big boobs, and that was definitely something that I was caught in a tractor beam a little bit when we met. She was the hottest woman in the office, by far, and I couldn't believe she was talking to me and seemed to be interested in me. I knew she had a boyfriend and there was this other guy in the office that she may or may not have broken up with, but I was very keen to sleep with her and all those just seemed like obsticle to overcome. And then I got a sob story from her really, and I just wanted to rescue her from what seemed like a bad situation. And I felt like she was choosing me over 2 other guys, and that felt good.
> 
> I realise as a woman Diana, that doesn't make sense, and I probably sound like a pathetic idiot. But the tractor beam pull of big boobs can be powerful!


My wife caught me with the same tractor beam(s) lol.


----------



## arodathon

Rus47 said:


> (1) So, I am betting she didn't kiss them on the mouth only.
> How could you accept that answer??!! If I ever had learned my wife kissed another, my assumption would be they went beyond that and the marriage would be history. It isn't up to her to say she won't give you details. If you are ok being "pretty sure" you are father of the kid, so be it.
> 
> (2) She is still working at the place where she has gone through all of the men at least once? The ugly guy in the mail room likely one of the last, but if he has attributes not evident with his pants on, it won't be last with him. There is nothing to stop her from continuing extracurricular activities.


1. I've been pretty clear above why I accepted that answer. I didn't think it was ok, at all, but I believed her story.

2. She is still working at that same office, yes. Has she been through all the men at least once? I don't know, that's what I'm trying to work out, but I feel like all I have to go on at the moment, is weird things that don't make sense the way she told, but DO makes sense if she has slept with most of the guys in the office. Is that evidence? Not really. Does it make me worried? Yeah!
Do I take your comment to mean that you also think that seem like the most likely situation?
If you are saying maybe he has a BIG D, well she told me he didn't, but then I guess she would say that. But also, he definitely didn't have Big D Energy (BDE) you know.

But also, he wasn't a confident guy, and as I said, he wasn't very attractive, so if he did have a Big D how would she have know, unless she was already sleeping with him.


----------



## arodathon

In Absentia said:


> well, all of this is pretty weird...


I agree. Welcome to my life


----------



## arodathon

Rus47 said:


> Bet it more like 50 ( or five hundred ). Mistake??!! Come on!


Do you think that's actually likely? I mean that kinda what I'm worried about. If she only told me about kissing because some guy felt guilty and made her do it, it seems like guys that would do that aren't common, which means if there are 5 that did, there A LOT more that didn't.

I mean it's kinda scary.

I feel that it's either all paranoia and I'm wrong about it all, or she has cheated and has cheated A LOT. I feel like there is no middle ground. Nothing else makes sense.


----------



## arodathon

Rus47 said:


> How about if your wife was describing what SHE was doing under the desk and ascribing it to another?


Yeah that's exactly what I said in that reply. That's the only thing that makes sense really.


----------



## arodathon

Rus47 said:


> My wife caught me with the same tractor beam(s) lol.


Yeah! They are hard to ignore!


----------



## Mr.Married

The current crop of men in the world make me experience such intense second hand embarrassment that I have a hard time reading their post. You just can’t make this stuff up.


----------



## In Absentia

arodathon said:


> Yeah! They are hard to ignore!


I had the same problem...


----------



## arodathon

Mr.Married said:


> The current crop of men in the world make me experience such intense second hand embarrassment that I have a hard time reading their post. You just can’t make this stuff up.


You are calling me an embarrassment? That's a bit harsh isn't in. I just fell in love and wanted a happy life!


----------



## Sfort

If you challenged your wife one-tenth as much as you're challenging experts here on her behavior, you'd have a lot more information. She's trickle truthing you, meaning you need more hard information. Or, accept everything she's saying, and all is well with the world.


----------



## arodathon

Sfort said:


> If you challenged your wife one-tenth as much as you're challenging experts here on her behavior, you'd have a lot more information. She's trickle truthing you, meaning you need more hard information. Or, accept everything she's saying, and all is well with the world.


Well, to be fair, none of you wear a GG cup bra and suck my ****, so the situations aren't comparable!


----------



## Lostinthought61

arodathon said:


> She is still my wife. And at the time I felt like she was being honest about her mistakes. And each incident was at least a year apart.


It’s called trickle truth, giving you enough to think you know some truths but not all the truth.....if you think she has been unfaithful ask for a polygraph


----------



## Mr.Married

.....

Nevermind .....


----------



## manwithnoname

arodathon said:


> Yeah, I agree it's odd, I mean that's why I'm posting here after all. Just wasn't sure if that counts as a mental disorder, but I don't know, I'm not an expert. I guess I'm still weirdly protective and defensive of my wife, even after all this.
> 
> The weird stufff with the homeless man was that she would meet up with every week, to buy him some food and check he was ok. I was wary of him, but he did genuinely seem like a nice guy who was just down on his luck, and I didn't want to judge him just because he was homeless. He was from Newcastle the same town in the North of England that my wife is from and she said that he remind her of her brother and so felt protective of him. So she met up with him after work one day a week, in the cafe just up the road, but she finished work earlier than I did, so they would have been in the cafe for about an hour before I got there. We ended up giving him some money so that he could buy some magazine that he could sell to earn more money. We didn't see him for a few weeks after that, so it seemed like he might have fallen off the wagon. A few month later he turned up again, she said she ran into him and she started meeting up again with him. We ended up giving him some more money and then he disappeared and we never saw him again.
> 
> The really weird thing was that one time he turn up outside our flat randomly. He was being really weird and my wife was being really weird, and he wanted to come in but I said no, he couldn't come in and he had to leave. I assumed at the time she was being weird because she knew he was wrong that he had come to our flat, and he felt guilty because she was the one that befriended him. But now, thinking back on it, I don't know. Also, I only realised this when I thought back on it recently, but who did he know where we lived?!?!? I'd told her not to tell him where we lived, in case he robbed us. We lived on the same road as the cafe, so maybe he saw us going into the flat, but I don't know.
> 
> At the time I thought is was just an example of her being too trusting and seeing the good in people when she should be more wary. But thinking back, given the story about the woman in the office that apparently took a homeless guy home, at it not making sense how my wife would know that, it does seem an odd coincidence.


Your reason not to DNA the kid does not make sense. You wore a condom except for when you tried to conceive, but did the other guys wear a condom? 
Guys who sleep with married women do not feel guilty about it, some actually get off on it even more. And if they're married there's better odds of secrecy. The homeless guy story really points to her being the one in all her stories. 
She saw you as a safe partner who would not cheat on her, and stay with her if she ever got caught. Those other guys were just for sex.


----------



## arodathon

manwithnoname said:


> Your reason not to DNA the kid does not make sense. You wore a condom except for when you tried to conceive, but did the other guys wear a condom?
> Guys who sleep with married women do not feel guilty about it, some actually get off on it even more. And if they're married there's better odds of secrecy. The homeless guy story really points to her being the one in all her stories.
> She saw you as a safe partner who would not cheat on her, and stay with her if she ever got caught. Those other guys were just for sex.


I'm not worried about my kid being mine, because he looks like me and looks like I did when I was a kid.

If all of those bit of gossip and stories were actually things that she did, then thats really bad. According to her rumours bascially everyone was shagging everyone else, so if they were all actually about her, then she was shagging the majority of the guys in the office. I cling onto the hope that maybe that was all before she met me and was in the past, and she was embarrassed to admit it. I don't know that any of it happened after we got together.


----------



## Sfort

arodathon said:


> Well, to be fair, none of you wear a GG cup bra and suck my ****, so the situations aren't comparable!


Oh, ok. If I were you, however, I would want to be the only one who plays with the GGs and whose **** she sucks.


----------



## Talker67

OP, sorry...sometimes things get a little intense and judgemental here.

i would caution to not continue to dwell on the exact number of partners she had before you guys got married. that might seem to be a big number to you, but she DID choose you to marry, and presumably was monogamous since, 

worry more about what happened only during your marriage. otherwise you can get driven nuts by stuff that does not really matter.


----------



## Numb26

If it doesn't have calluses on it why worried about it?

Best piece of advice I can give you is, Don't ask how she got so good in bed, you don't want to know the answer


----------



## Rus47

arodathon said:


> Do you think that's actually likely? I mean that kinda what I'm worried about. If she only told me about kissing because some guy felt guilty and made her do it, it seems like guys that would do that aren't common, which means if there are 5 that did, there A LOT more that didn't.
> 
> I mean it's kinda scary.
> 
> I feel that it's either all paranoia and I'm wrong about it all, or she has cheated and has cheated A LOT. I feel like there is no middle ground. Nothing else makes sense.


Yes. Not sure how you confirm. But a homeless guy??!! And she tells you woman at work took one home? You know some will ascribe their own actions to "someone".


----------



## arodathon

Talker67 said:


> OP, sorry...sometimes things get a little intense and judgemental here.
> 
> i would caution to not continue to dwell on the exact number of partners she had before you guys got married. that might seem to be a big number to you, but she DID choose you to marry, and presumably was monogamous since,
> 
> worry more about what happened only during your marriage. otherwise you can get driven nuts by stuff that does not really matter.


Thank you for this. When I posted, I kind of expected maybe a 50/50 split between "you are overreacting" and "she's cheating on you", but it doesn't seem to have gone that way at all! I don't know if to take that as a sign that she's definitely cheating? Or just indicates a bias in this forum.

I get what you are saying, I am definitely dwelling on it more than I should do. But I do think it's partially relevant if that number is way larger than I even know, and it includes a lot of guys from her office, because she still works in that office, and I only worked there for a few months, so it's entirely possible that patterns and arrangements and relationships that existed prior to me arriving could continue after I've left.


----------



## arodathon

Numb26 said:


> If it doesn't have calluses on it why worried about it?
> 
> Best piece of advice I can give you is, Don't ask how she got so good in bed, you don't want to know the answer


Thanks for this


----------



## Mr.Married

Talker67 said:


> a little intense and judgemental here.
> but she DID choose you to marry, and presumably was monogamous since,


And she chose to kiss 5 other men while married so my judgment is correct and monogamous she is not ....


----------



## Rus47

arodathon said:


> I'm not worried about my kid being mine, because he looks like me and looks like I did when I was a kid.
> 
> If all of those bit of gossip and stories were actually things that she did, then thats really bad. According to her rumours bascially everyone was shagging everyone else, so if they were all actually about her, then she was shagging the majority of the guys in the office. I cling onto the hope that maybe that was all before she met me and was in the past, and she was embarrassed to admit it. I don't know that any of it happened after we got together.


One way to look at this is just enjoy what you have n keep wearing the condom. The alternate path leads to sll the divorce BS. Just stuff the thots m emjoy the ride


----------



## arodathon

Rus47 said:


> Yes. Not sure how you confirm. But a homeless guy??!! And she tells you woman at work took one home? You know some will ascribe their own actions to "someone".


Yeah, that was exactly my point, it seems like a very big coincidence. And so many things don't make sense about it. But if it was actually HER that did all that stuff, then things make a lot more sense.


----------



## Chillidog

I'm spitting the lure back out. I think this whole story is bs


----------



## arodathon

Rus47 said:


> One way to look at this is just enjoy what you have n keep wearing the condom. The alternate path leads to sll the divorce BS. Just stuff the thots m emjoy the ride


At the moment my head is a bit of a mess and I don't really know what to think. I don't know if I could look past this all, but then also I don't know for certain "this" all actually did happen. I feel like I would need her to be honest with me about everything if there was a chance to move past it, but then also I don't know if I actually want to know it all! It might be A LOT. And how will I know if she is actually being honest with me, or if there is still more I don't know about. 

What if she continues to "trickle truth" and I get some stuff, like maybe she admits that yes, she has slept with some guys in her office but that they don't work there any more. But then we go to her office Christmas party and someone in her office tells me she has shagged her way through all of them? Another Red Flag maybe, she never wants us to go to her office Christmas party, so we never do.

I noticed a section in this forum called Coping with Infedelity, so maybe I'll give that a read.

While moving past any of this, if true, seems like it's impossible at the moment, so does confronting it and dealing with the consequences like divorce. So I don't know.


----------



## arodathon

Chillidog said:


> I'm spitting the lure back out. I think this whole story is bs


Not sure how I can answer that. You do you.


----------



## Trustless Marriage

arodathon said:


> She told me she'd been with 12 guys before me. But during our relationship she mentioned other guys and it felt like she'd menioned a lot, so I started keeping track. She's mentioned over 20 different guys, and that doesn't include the ones she mentioned before I started keeping track. So I know she is lying about it.


Ok - so you two talk about her past sex life quite often? When you say you are keeping track how is all this coming up? Is it possible that she just left out some guys when she initially told you about the 12 guys? Have you ever confronted her about the large discrepancy in numbers? Did she ever admit she actually lied? 

When I first met my wife, we put everything on the table - or I thought. I actually asked for the count and remembered every guy she did and did not have sex with. When she slipped up one day in rare talk about our past and I called her on it, she knew she screwed up and finally told me the true count - supposedly. She came clean, admitted she lied because she was "ashamed" about her past, bla bla bla but at least she admitted she lied.

But to be honest after reading through this post it sounds like she loves attention. She was with 5 guys on your time - not marriage material if you ask me. She has slept with loads of guys - not marriage material if you ask me. I know some people will say it's not about her past it's about now. But history is a good guide as to how she will act in the future. 

I think you need to sit down with her and tell her you are disturbed by the numbers she originally gave you and all these other guys she keeps bringing up. Be ready for a fight and the trickle truth. There are too many holes here to have faith in her and this marriage. Trust is the foundation of any marriage. I think you deserve it.


----------



## drencrom

arodathon said:


> My wife has admitted to me on 5 separate occasions that she has kissed another guy. One was a guy at her office, another was a guy she met online, and there were some other guys.


While married to you or prior? If while married to you, I'm afraid there is no hope for you to go on happily with this woman. 

Can't count her sexual partners on 2 hands, sounds like not even on 2 hands and 2 feet, and is actively cheating and seeking men online. I hate to say it, but you have a real lady of the night on your hands(I'd use the preferred term, but you know, rules).

The only logical action I can see here is to divorce her.


----------



## drencrom

arodathon said:


> That's a bit far isn't it?! You think she has a mental disorder? What mental disorder do you think she has?


Here --> Which mental illness can cause severe promiscuity? | Answers from Doctors | HealthTap 



> Do all women that cheat have a mental disorder, or just my wife?


I don't believe so. But in your wife's case, seems like she has had way to many partners and doesn't like the idea of giving that up based on what you said.


----------



## Diana7

arodathon said:


> Well, to be fair, none of you wear a GG cup bra and suck my ****, so the situations aren't comparable!


You are so obsessed with her boobs that you let her get away with being a serial cheat. Where is your common sense. Where is your self esteem.


----------



## drencrom

arodathon said:


> Well, to be fair, none of you wear a GG cup bra and suck my ****, so the situations aren't comparable!


Soooo you don't really want advice and have only come here for validation on giving your wife a pass because she has big tits and sucks it?

Alrighty then, do as you wish. Good luck with that.


----------



## Blondilocks

Mr.Married said:


> The current crop of men in the world make me experience such intense second hand embarrassment that I have a hard time reading their post. *You just can’t make this stuff up.*


Yes, you can.


----------



## Rus47

arodathon said:


> Well, to be fair, none of you wear a GG cup bra and suck my ****, so the situations aren't comparable!


GG??!!  Usually most women can only emotionally attach to one man at a time. So if she is still treating you well in the bedroom, that either means she is emotionally attached to you and is faithful or the guys at work are just for fun.

Seriously, by marrying and having a kid with her, she has you pretty well locked up in the "provider" role, and escaping is going to be a real PITA (for you). She might end up with a pile of your money and still be doing everyone at work. One of your countrymen here on TAM lost so much to the UK redistribution factory transferring his money to his ex, he had to leave the country and now lives in Thailand. The more you dig, the more likely you are to discover more stuff about your wife that you really don't want to know, and will feel constrained to end the marriage.

So, realistically, do some "what if" thought experiments and list the various outcomes do decide a path forward. I realize this is going to be really controversial for the others on here, but if you read the threads from the betrayed, they aren't any happier of better off for having gone down the rabbit hole toward divorce. You might decide you are better off acknowledging you are in a one-sided open marriage ( without admitting to her ), and as long as she takes good care of you that is the best path forward. Just keep wearing the condom.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

arodathon said:


> Well, to be fair, none of you wear a GG cup bra and suck my ****, so the situations aren't comparable!


Everything you've said in this post leads me to believe your wife is basically a wh0re and I think you know it. She had sex with at least 20 guys before you (how old when you two met?) and lied about it, a lot. She has openly cheated on at least 1 BF, with someone in the office she still works at. She has cheated on you at least 5 times since you've been married. The way you describe the gossip she shared I think it was either her doing those things or she was at least very excited by it. As for you, you apparently have no self respect. You put up with this because she has big boobs and sucks your ****. Sound like you are happy with your *****. If you are happy with big boobs and BJs then keep on the blinders and carry on as is.


----------



## arodathon

Trustless Marriage said:


> Ok - so you two talk about her past sex life quite often? When you say you are keeping track how is all this coming up? Is it possible that she just left out some guys when she initially told you about the 12 guys? Have you ever confronted her about the large discrepancy in numbers? Did she ever admit she actually lied?
> 
> When I first met my wife, we put everything on the table - or I thought. I actually asked for the count and remembered every guy she did and did not have sex with. When she slipped up one day in rare talk about our past and I called her on it, she knew she screwed up and finally told me the true count - supposedly. She came clean, admitted she lied because she was "ashamed" about her past, bla bla bla but at least she admitted she lied.
> 
> But to be honest after reading through this post it sounds like she loves attention. She was with 5 guys on your time - not marriage material if you ask me. She has slept with loads of guys - not marriage material if you ask me. I know some people will say it's not about her past it's about now. But history is a good guide as to how she will act in the future.
> 
> I think you need to sit down with her and tell her you are disturbed by the numbers she originally gave you and all these other guys she keeps bringing up. Be ready for a fight and the trickle truth. There are too many holes here to have faith in her and this marriage. Trust is the foundation of any marriage. I think you deserve it.


No, we don't talk about past sex life often, but things come up in conversation. Like "Oh I was with a guy that worked in Nando." "My ex had that car", "I haven't been here since I was with Steve".

Some of the information could be doubled up, like she was with a guy called Steve that had that car, but I accounted for that, some stuff would contradict itself. So, taking that into consideration, at a conservative estimate, she'd been with at least 30 guys before me, not 12 like she said.

Its that that helpful to say "she's not marriage material if you ask me" I'm already married to her! It's a bit late for that!


----------



## Rus47

arodathon said:


> At the moment my head is a bit of a mess and I don't really know what to think. I don't know if I could look past this all, but then also I don't know for certain "this" all actually did happen. I feel like I would need her to be honest with me about everything if there was a chance to move past it, but then also I don't know if I actually want to know it all! It might be A LOT. And how will I know if she is actually being honest with me, or if there is still more I don't know about.
> 
> What if she continues to "trickle truth" and I get some stuff, like maybe she admits that yes, she has slept with some guys in her office but that they don't work there any more. But then we go to her office Christmas party and someone in her office tells me she has shagged her way through all of them? Another Red Flag maybe, she never wants us to go to her office Christmas party, so we never do.
> 
> I noticed a section in this forum called Coping with Infedelity, so maybe I'll give that a read.
> 
> While moving past any of this, if true, seems like it's impossible at the moment, so does confronting it and dealing with the consequences like divorce. So I don't know.


Just realize, you could end up divorced, living in a tiny flat with no money. And your next "catch" might wear a padded AA bra, NEVER give you oral, give you duty sex every three months. Read some of the horror stories on this site to see where you might end up.


----------



## Livvie

Diana7 said:


> You are so obsessed with her boobs that you let her get away with being a serial cheat. Where is your common sense. Where is your self esteem.


This. 

I no longer have any sympathy for men who choose, and/or stay with, and make excuses for, women who treat them poorly all because of her physical looks. Not one drop of sympathy.


----------



## arodathon

drencrom said:


> Soooo you don't really want advice and have only come here for validation on giving your wife a pass because she has big tits and sucks it?
> 
> Alrighty then, do as you wish. Good luck with that.


No, but I felt it was a nasty reply so I got a bit basty in return.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

arodathon said:


> No, we don't talk about past sex life often, but things come up in conversation. Like "Oh I was with a guy that worked in Nando." "My ex had that car", "I haven't been here since I was with Steve".
> 
> Some of the information could be doubled up, like she was with a guy called Steve that had that car, but I accounted for that, some stuff would contradict itself. So, taking that into consideration, at a conservative estimate, she'd been with at least 30 guys before me, not 12 like she said.
> 
> Its that that helpful to say "she's not marriage material if you ask me" I'm already married to her! It's a bit late for that!


I find it odd that your wife mentions things like, oh I haven't been here since Steve was screwing me. Maybe it is just the way you are portraying it, but seems seems to get a thrill talking about these things. That kind of thing would really push my buttons, but that is just me.

Like I said, if you are happy with what you've got, other than these concerns in your head, then stick with it. Does the happy outweigh the concerns? I couldn't do it, but again, that is me and not necessarily how you feel.


----------



## GC1234

arodathon said:


> The thing is is makes me question a lot of things, including if she has been faithful to me.
> 
> My wife has admitted to me on 5 separate occasions that she has kissed another guy. One was a guy at her office, another was a guy she met online, and there were some other guys. Looking back it sounds really bad, but at the time she made me feel like it was my fault for not giving her enough attention and being distant. And I guess I bought it really. And I felt good that she had admitted it to me straight away and unprompted, and I believed her that she felt bad and was sorry.
> 
> Now I'm looking back on that and not knowing what to think. And not knowing if it was just a kiss that happened, since I know she has lied about other stuff.


Uh, I don't think your wife is trustworthy. Clearly lots of red flags. Big one is she doesn't respect dating boundaries, and thinks she can do whatever she wants when things don't go accordingly. 

She had a boyfriend and was seeing another guy behind his back? 

She's kissed other guys while married to you, or when you were exclusive? It's exactly the same thing. She seems to be a pathological liar. But, either this is a fake post, or you're REALLY naive. I'm not sure, but dude, it's so obvious. 

I don't think you have much of a marriage. I think you have a somatic narcissist on your hands. I know that word gets thrown out a lot, but I'm serious.


----------



## arodathon

Rus47 said:


> GG??!!  Usually most women can only emotionally attach to one man at a time. So if she is still treating you well in the bedroom, that either means she is emotionally attached to you and is faithful or the guys at work are just for fun.
> 
> Seriously, by marrying and having a kid with her, she has you pretty well locked up in the "provider" role, and escaping is going to be a real PITA (for you). She might end up with a pile of your money and still be doing everyone at work. One of your countrymen here on TAM lost so much to the UK redistribution factory transferring his money to his ex, he had to leave the country and now lives in Thailand. The more you dig, the more likely you are to discover more stuff about your wife that you really don't want to know, and will feel constrained to end the marriage.
> 
> So, realistically, do some "what if" thought experiments and list the various outcomes do decide a path forward. I realize this is going to be really controversial for the others on here, but if you read the threads from the betrayed, they aren't any happier of better off for having gone down the rabbit hole toward divorce. You might decide you are better off acknowledging you are in a one-sided open marriage ( without admitting to her ), and as long as she takes good care of you that is the best path forward. Just keep wearing the condom.


I appreciate that you at least have a different perspective to everyone else. I will definitely give it some though. Thanks


----------



## arodathon

BigDaddyNY said:


> Everything you've said in this post leads me to believe your wife is basically a wh0re and I think you know it. She had sex with at least 20 guys before you (how old when you two met?) and lied about it, a lot. She has openly cheated on at least 1 BF, with someone in the office she still works at. She has cheated on you at least 5 times since you've been married. The way you describe the gossip she shared I think it was either her doing those things or she was at least very excited by it. As for you, you apparently have no self respect. You put up with this because she has big boobs and sucks your *. Sound like you are happy with your **. If you are happy with big boobs and BJs then keep on the blinders and carry on as is.


I'm obviously not happy with it! I obviously missed a lot of red flags, and knowing that she lied about how many guys she'd been with has only become obvious recently, and I'm trying to deal with is right now!

I'm explaining what I'm going through and you all seem to be annoyed that I dated her in the first place. Well that ship has sailed and I am where I am, and I need to work out what to do about it. Telling me I need to go back in time 7 years and walk away isn't very helpful.


----------



## arodathon

BigDaddyNY said:


> I find it odd that your wife mentions things like, oh I haven't been here since Steve was screwing me. Maybe it is just the way you are portraying it, but seems seems to get a thrill talking about these things. That kind of thing would really push my buttons, but that is just me.
> 
> Like I said, if you are happy with what you've got, other than these concerns in your head, then stick with it. Does the happy outweigh the concerns? I couldn't do it, but again, that is me and not necessarily how you feel.


She obviously didn't say "since Steve was screwing me" but she does seem to locate things in time and space with reference to what guy she was with at the time. I never really realised that until you pointed that out, but that is kinda how her mind seems to work.


----------



## Talker67

drencrom said:


> Soooo you don't really want advice and have only come here for validation on giving your wife a pass because she has big tits and sucks it?
> 
> Alrighty then, do as you wish. Good luck with that.


the OP DOES have a point. big boobies are an important factor!


----------



## arodathon

Talker67 said:


> the OP DOES have a point. big boobies are an important factor!


Thanks for the backup


----------



## Mr.Married

Are y’all 14 years old ?


----------



## Tdbo

arodathon said:


> We've always used condoms except when we were trying to get pregnant. I appreciate your concern, but I'm pretty sure my kid is mine.
> 
> I did ask for details about the kissing, but she told me it didn't matter and she didn't want to give me details that I would just obsess over. She didn't tell me who in her office she kissed because she didn't want me to get upset if he ever came up in converstation about her work.


Do both anyway. At a minimum, she needs an "Attention Getter."
Sounds like you need to take some "Corrective Action" regarding the wife thing as well.
Should start lawyer shopping to plan your next moves.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

arodathon said:


> I'm obviously not happy with it! I obviously missed a lot of red flags, and knowing that she lied about how many guys she'd been with has only become obvious recently, and I'm trying to deal with is right now!
> 
> I'm explaining what I'm going through and you all seem to be annoyed that I dated her in the first place. Well that ship has sailed and I am where I am, and I need to work out what to do about it. Telling me I need to go back in time 7 years and walk away isn't very helpful.


You are right, you missed the signs and here you are having to deal with it, understood.


arodathon said:


> She obviously didn't say "since Steve was screwing me" but she does seem to locate things in time and space with reference to what guy she was with at the time. I never really realised that until you pointed that out, but that is kinda how her mind seems to work.


She may not have said those words, but that was the thought behind them. Very insensitive of her to talk about, but I suspect you never raised any objection when she has done that.

Your initial post described a marriage in which you are happy and you have said you are in love. It also sounds like you have a good sex life and a child. Do any of your recent revelations change that?

Some options...

Tell her she has already crossed too many boundaries and get divorced.
Try to establish clearer/new boundaries with her (this requires you to have a enough backbone to enforce, do not create boundaries that you won't stick to)
Look past these recent revelations, stop digging deeper into them and go on with your happy marriage enjoying those big boobs and BJs. Life could be worse.


----------



## dwdj75

Each time she kissed another, did she confess right after, or after the final (5th) one ?
What is your opinion on kissing ? Is it cheating to you ? Do you consider kissing intimate ? Does she think kissing is intimate ?
As an aside, someone who is telling us how they are so anti "red pill", you sure are very vocal about objectifying your wife. Not judging, just stating ...


----------



## Tdbo

arodathon said:


> I don't actually know anything different I can point to though. So what do I say? I have a problem with the 5 guys you said you kissed? She will say why are you bringing this up now, and you said you had forgiven me back then, what's changed? What do I say? "Some guys on the internet think you are cheating on me?" That will definitely make me look like a chump!


I'd start by pointing out to her that she lies like a rug.
Provide her a brief inventory of her handiwork.
Take charge of your situation. Put her on defense.


----------



## Blondilocks

arodathon said:


> Well, to be fair, none of you wear a GG cup bra


You don't know this (it is the internet, afterall).😅


----------



## Tdbo

arodathon said:


> I can't she always has her phone with her and it's locked.


Checkmate.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

arodathon said:


> I don't actually know anything different I can point to though. So what do I say? I have a problem with the 5 guys you said you kissed? She will say why are you bringing this up now, and you said you had forgiven me back then, what's changed? What do I say? "Some guys on the internet think you are cheating on me?" That will definitely make me look like a chump!


Maybe tell her that this has been on your mind and it has started bothering you. Tell her you have forgiven her, but you aren't comfortable now with her being around these guys. Feelings do change over time. I would personally have her quit her job. It sounds like an environment ripe with cheating wh0res (both men and women).


----------



## Tdbo

arodathon said:


> Well, to be fair, none of you wear a GG cup bra and suck my ****, so the situations aren't comparable!


Only you can decide if the cost of a pair of Double G's is a set of balls.


----------



## ButtPunch

arodathon said:


> Is it that that helpful to say "she's not marriage material if you ask me" I'm already married to her! It's a bit late for that!


OP
Your situation is just terrible and the poster is right. She isn't a safe partner or marriage material. Unless you are
willing to accept a one sided open marriage, you need to divorce this woman. You sir are whats called a doormat.
She doesn't respect you at all. I say this not to be mean but to try and wake you up. I do not understand how you
possibly could be happy with her at the least kissing a different guy every year. 

Man up and demand she hand over her phone. Put a voice activated recorder in her car but deep down you already 
know she isn't a safe partner. You need to leave this relationship. It's abusive.


----------



## jsmart

arodathon said:


> She obviously didn't say "since Steve was screwing me" but she does seem to locate things in time and space with reference to what guy she was with at the time. I never really realised that until you pointed that out, but that is kinda how her mind seems to work.


Huh? Romantically walking through town, you pass an alley behind a local hot spot. Oh look, I gave Brad from accounting a BJ behind that garbage bin. Oh but don’t worry, we were not married yet.


----------



## Rus47

arodathon said:


> I'm obviously not happy with it! I obviously missed a lot of red flags, and knowing that she lied about how many guys she'd been with has only become obvious recently, and I'm trying to deal with is right now!
> 
> I'm explaining what I'm going through and you all seem to be annoyed that I dated her in the first place. Well that ship has sailed and I am where I am, and I need to work out what to do about it. Telling me I need to go back in time 7 years and walk away isn't very helpful.


I wouldnt think lying about body count before you got together should be a consideration. Imagine most women when they decide to settle down are going to minimize because they know it is a big deal for most men. 

Might be interesting to propose attending the Christmas party for old time sake and see how much panic that produces. Then attend even if you go alone and listen as tongues loosen.


----------



## RebuildingMe

If this is a real thread, I don’t think OP is going to do one damn thing to get out of infinity. He’s here to vent and explain away all the reasons he can’t follow the great advice he’s getting. Apparently he’s accepting of his wife giving managers bjs under their desks. What kind of work place it there? Are they hiring?


----------



## Rus47

Livvie said:


> This.
> 
> I no longer have any sympathy for men who choose, and/or stay with, and make excuses for, women who treat them poorly all because of her physical looks. Not one drop of sympathy.


To be fair, there are plenty of women who get with mr muscles from the gym to cheat on their husband of years. Physical attraction is a big thing for both genders


----------



## Livvie

Rus47 said:


> To be fair, there are plenty of women who get with mr muscles from the gym to cheat on their husband of years. Physical attraction is a big thing for both genders


That's cheating with a Mr. Muscles. 

I'm talking about men choosing and staying with and marrying women who present issue after issue after issue after issue after miserable issue, because she's "hot", which is a different thing.


----------



## Numb26

Livvie said:


> That's cheating with a Mr. Muscles.
> 
> I'm talking about men choosing and staying with and marrying women who present issue after issue after issue after issue after miserable issue, because she's "hot", which is a different thing.


There isn't a woman walking the Earth "hot" enough to get me to lose my self-respect


----------



## Al_Bundy

Self esteem is so low you found a woman who admitted to cheating on her current BF and you said......yep she's the one for me! That's the mother of my children right there!!!

Obviously "hot" women are not something you are used to. If you were, you wouldn't put up with this.


----------



## Livvie

Speaking as a woman, I have noticed that some men get an ego boost and think they are great themselves because they are with a "hot" woman. Not taking into consideration her character. 

If a man is with a hot woman of low character, it does not mean he is amazing that he could score a hot woman. It means he was able to be led around by hotness alone, and does not raise his value as a man. 

A man who is having a healthy relationship with a woman with good character is worthy of respect (not sure that's the best word but all that came to mind right now) whether she is hot or not.

I have been totally turned off and have rejected dating men before who I knew remained in toxic relationships just because she was hot.


----------



## Jeffsmith35

The saying: "If she cheated _with_ you, she'll cheat _on_ you" is well-known (unfortunately) because it turns out to be true so often. It describes the nature of the cheater, which doesn't magically change upon marriage.


----------



## Anastasia6

arodathon said:


> Thank you for this. When I posted, I kind of expected maybe a 50/50 split between "you are overreacting" and "she's cheating on you", but it doesn't seem to have gone that way at all! I don't know if to take that as a sign that she's definitely cheating? Or just indicates a bias in this forum.
> 
> I get what you are saying, I am definitely dwelling on it more than I should do. But I do think it's partially relevant if that number is way larger than I even know, and it includes a lot of guys from her office, because she still works in that office, and I only worked there for a few months, so it's entirely possible that patterns and arrangements and relationships that existed prior to me arriving could continue after I've left.


Take it as a bias on this forum. I mean it doesn't look good but this 50 thing is a bit over the top.

One easy way to find out. Schedule a poly. Just know either way if she passes or fails your marriage has changed.


----------



## Blondilocks

Humongous boobs may equal 'hot' to some guys. But, we have all seen women with great big ol' tits and a face that looks like ten miles of bad road. Of course, if your eyes are locked on the boobs, you probably wouldn't notice the meth mouth.


----------



## Kaliber

RebuildingMe said:


> If this is a real thread, I don’t think OP is going to do one damn thing to get out of infinity. He’s here to vent and explain away all the reasons he can’t follow the great advice he’s getting. Apparently he’s accepting of his wife giving managers bjs under their desks. What kind of work place it there? Are they hiring?


Welcome to the UK, where men are stuck in limbo and too scared to stir the water, they usually end up being doormats and pussified, some of them would rather be cuckold than to take action to protect their dignity and self respect!
I worked there for many many years and have a huge circle of friend to this day, saw with my own eyes how men deal with infidelity, it's very sad!
This new generation of "boys" are so missed up, it's not even funny!
The west in general is missed up!


----------



## Al_Bundy

Blondilocks said:


> Humongous boobs may equal 'hot' to some guys. But, we have all seen women with great big ol' tits and a face that looks like ten miles of bad road. Of course, if your eyes are locked on the boobs, you probably wouldn't notice the meth mouth.


Either that or along with the humongous boobs she also has humongous legs, arms, back, etc.......


----------



## arodathon

BigDaddyNY said:


> You are right, you missed the signs and here you are having to deal with it, understood.
> 
> She may not have said those words, but that was the thought behind them. Very insensitive of her to talk about, but I suspect you never raised any objection when she has done that.
> 
> Your initial post described a marriage in which you are happy and you have said you are in love. It also sounds like you have a good sex life and a child. Do any of your recent revelations change that?
> 
> Some options...
> 
> Tell her she has already crossed too many boundaries and get divorced.
> Try to establish clearer/new boundaries with her (this requires you to have a enough backbone to enforce, do not create boundaries that you won't stick to)
> Look past these recent revelations, stop digging deeper into them and go on with your happy marriage enjoying those big boobs and BJs. Life could be worse.


Thanks for not just saying "you should immediately file for divorce, and the fact you haven't already followed my adivce makes you an idiot". I know this is the internet, but I appreciate these measured, understanding replies.


----------



## arodathon

RebuildingMe said:


> If this is a real thread, I don’t think OP is going to do one damn thing to get out of infinity. He’s here to vent and explain away all the reasons he can’t follow the great advice he’s getting. Apparently he’s accepting of his wife giving managers bjs under their desks. What kind of work place it there? Are they hiring?


Why do you think I'm accepting of it??!?! I've said that the thought of it freaks me out! But I don't know for a fact yet, that it was her that did that, although I am leaning that way. And of course I'm not accepting of it, why do you think I'm here, considering my options?!?


----------



## arodathon

Rus47 said:


> I wouldnt think lying about body count before you got together should be a consideration. Imagine most women when they decide to settle down are going to minimize because they know it is a big deal for most men.
> 
> Might be interesting to propose attending the Christmas party for old time sake and see how much panic that produces. Then attend even if you go alone and listen as tongues loosen.


That's an interesting idea! Not sure how I would find out the details without her knowing though. I am considering trying to contact some people that worked at the office when I was there, to see if I can get the truth out of them. I don't remember many names though, it was a long time ago and I only worked there about 6 months.


----------



## In Absentia

Livvie said:


> This.
> 
> I no longer have any sympathy for men who choose, and/or stay with, and make excuses for, women who treat them poorly all because of her physical looks. Not one drop of sympathy.


yes, I agree... my wife has great boobs (not quite GG, but a nice pair), but I'm not staying if she doesn't allow me to touch them...


----------



## uphillbattle

Blondilocks said:


> Humongous boobs may equal 'hot' to some guys. But, we have all seen women with great big ol' tits and a face that looks like ten miles of bad road. Of course, if your eyes are locked on the boobs, you probably wouldn't notice the meth mouth.


Your absolute brutality amuses the hell out of me


----------



## arodathon

dwdj75 said:


> Each time she kissed another, did she confess right after, or after the final (5th) one ?
> What is your opinion on kissing ? Is it cheating to you ? Do you consider kissing intimate ? Does she think kissing is intimate ?
> As an aside, someone who is telling us how they are so anti "red pill", you sure are very vocal about objectifying your wife. Not judging, just stating ...


She admitted it to me after each time. Apparently immediately after it happened, like within days, although who knows if that is the truth. 

Is kissing cheating? Yes, but there are levels of cheating, and obviously kissing isn't as bad as sex. Kissing can be intimate, obviously. But just saying "kissing" doesn't really give a lot of details. Maybe it was a very brief lapse where he dived in to kiss her, and she was caught off guard and took a second to work out what was going on and disengage. But because that means she technically kiss the guy, that she felt guilty and needed to tell me. For what its worth this is sort of how she framed the kissing at the time.


----------



## In Absentia

Sorry, OP, but I'm picturing you standing next to your wife with a notebook and a pencil taking notes every time she mentions an ex...


----------



## arodathon

In Absentia said:


> Sorry, OP, but I'm picturing you standing next to your wife with a notebook and a pencil taking notes every time she mentions an ex...


I didn't have a notebook in my pocket, but I did have my phone and the Notes app, and would make a note as soon as I could.


----------



## Blondilocks

uphillbattle said:


> Your absolute brutality amuses the hell out of me


Brutality? LOL You want to see brutality - step into my parlor said the spider to the fly.


----------



## In Absentia

arodathon said:


> I didn't have a notebook in my pocket, but I did have my phone and the Notes app, and would make a note as soon as I could.


I wasn't far off...


----------



## Newgem

arodathon said:


> My wife and I have been together 7 years, married for 5, we met at the office she still works at.
> 
> Things have been great, she is like my one true love and we have a kid together. I've always had 100% trust in her and I know she is hotter than me and I'm probably punching above my weight, but she's always said she doesn't notice when guys stare at her. We've had a few bumps in the road, but it's been mostly great.
> 
> But I found out recently that she lied about how many guys she had been with before me, and it's like made me completely rethink everything she's said that I've believed. Why did she feel the need to lie about that, and if she lied about that, what else has she lied about? There is stuff she told me when we met that I just took for granted because I trusted her. But thinking back on it now, there is stuff that doesn't make sense.
> 
> When we met, she was living with her boyfriend, but also seeing a guy at the office behind her boyfriends back. But she told me that her boyfeiend was really controlling and she wanted to leave him but didn't know how, and going with the guy in the office was just a way of having some control over her life and she had ended things with him and he hadn't taken it very well.
> 
> Looking back now, these are starting to seem like really big red flags, but at the time I accepted it. But some stuff seems really weird, like if she was going behind her boyfriends back with this guy in the office, and she would go out for drinks with her boyfriend and people from the office, then why wasn't it more secretive? Everyone knew she was going with that guy. Why did they not keep it more hidden?
> 
> There are loads of other things that are worrying me now. But I guess I want to know if you think I'm right to be worried, or is the lying about how many guys she'd been with before me is a normal thing to do and I'm exaggerating the issue. I heard that most women lie about it, so maybe it's just that.


Most of this forum isn’t very fond of me, but I felt like I had to comment my opinion here.

I have a lot of similarities to your wife.

In regards to her telling you she kissed 5 men (while you guys were together/married), it is guaranteed that it went further than that. It’s just her way of owning up to a little bit of guilt she’s feeling and justifying that “kissing” was all that happened. This is how she justifies it, bc I’ve done the exact same thing. Think about it - how does it build up to them kissing? There had to be some communication, emotional bonding, meeting up, etc. it’s a little bit of a process. Unless she just random kisses new people she meets without any standards for those men. And if that’s the case that’s even worse.

Secondly, where does she meet the men? Some online, some at work.... what does she tell you when she’s out with them? She probably has lots of hidden apps, which you won’t be able to see unless you get ahold of her phone. Is there anyway you can somehow see her phone?

Thats how I got caught both times. My phone was a gold mine of information.

oh and one more thing - guys don’t feel guilty. You think the guy who’s talking to your wife feels bad? He doesn’t give a ****. Trust me! I have experience with this. Men will just go with the flow, as long as they get what they want. Especially it seems like her standards aren’t very high (no offense it’s just from what you described. Those type of men don’t care.


----------



## uphillbattle

Livvie said:


> Speaking as a woman, I have noticed that some men get an ego boost and think they are great themselves because they are with a "hot" woman. Not taking into consideration her character.
> 
> If a man is with a hot woman of low character, it does not mean he is amazing that he could score a hot woman. It means he was able to be led around by hotness alone, and does not raise his value as a man.
> 
> A man who is having a healthy relationship with a woman with good character* is worthy of respect *(not sure that's the best word but all that came to mind right now) whether she is hot or not.
> 
> I have been totally turned off and have rejected dating men before who I knew remained in toxic relationships just because she was hot.


EVERY man is run by their ego. Unfortunately far to many inflate themselves with something so shallow. But if it's the best they feel can do I don't hold it against them.

For the highlighted words I would substitute "gets a much deeper ego boost".


----------



## uphillbattle

Blondilocks said:


> Brutality? LOL You want to see brutality - step into my parlor said the spider to the fly.


It's not the brutality specifically but the eloquence in which you throw it down.


----------



## arodathon

Newgem said:


> Most of this forum isn’t very fond of me, but I felt like I had to comment my opinion here.
> 
> I have a lot of similarities to your wife.
> 
> In regards to her telling you she kissed 5 men (while you guys were together/married), it is guaranteed that it went further than that. It’s just her way of owning up to a little bit of guilt she’s feeling and justifying that “kissing” was all that happened. This is how she justifies it, bc I’ve done the exact same thing. Think about it - how does it build up to them kissing? There had to be some communication, emotional bonding, meeting up, etc. it’s a little bit of a process. Unless she just random kisses new people she meets without any standards for those men. And if that’s the case that’s even worse.
> 
> Secondly, where does she meet the men? Some online, some at work.... what does she tell you when she’s out with them? She probably has lots of hidden apps, which you won’t be able to see unless you get ahold of her phone. Is there anyway you can somehow see her phone?
> 
> Thats how I got caught both times. My phone was a gold mine of information.
> 
> oh and one more thing - guys don’t feel guilty. You think the guy who’s talking to your wife feels bad? He doesn’t give a ****. Trust me! I have experience with this. Men will just go with the flow, as long as they get what they want. Especially it seems like her standards aren’t very high (no offense it’s just from what you described. Those type of men don’t care.


Thanks, it's helpful to hear your perspective on it.
That's a really good point.... she framed it like it was a small simple mistake, but there would have to be build up. Where did she meet them? Well one guy was a guy from work, one guy was a guy she first said she met online, then she said that they had mutual friends in common and had met up after work. The other guys she didn't tell me who they were, she said she didn't want me to obsess over things (yeah, I know, I wasn't happy about it, but part of it was that I'd already forgiven her in the past, and so it became harder to completely kick off about this time).

As for when, she has said she needed to work late in the past, and there have been works drinks and peoples birthdays, and leaving drinks and she sometimes goes out drinking with friends, so I guess any of those could have been opportunities for stuff to have happened.


----------



## Gabriel

With features like that she will get a lot of attention - that's just a fact about males. But it's up to her how to react to it.

To me, it sounds like she can't resist male attention, and gives into it regularly. Kissing ANYONE after being married is just a hard NO. Not sure how you could possibly accept this the 2nd time, let alone 3rd, 4th, etc. And yeah, "kissing" might very well be more than that.

People only admit to what they think they can get away with.


----------



## Mr.Married

Al_Bundy said:


> Either that or along with the humongous boobs she also has humongous legs, arms, back, etc.......


Thick Thighs Save Lives ... don’t knock them 😍


----------



## SunCMars

arodathon said:


> I don't remember exactly but I think maybe 1 or 2 happened before we were married and the others happened afterwards.
> When you say she gaslighed me, you mean because she made it seem like it was my fault? Or because it was more than kissing but she just said kissing to downplay it?


Do you think she told you about the kissing incidents because she had to admit it, that, you might find out later?

No?

It may be her warning you that she will not tolerate you being inattentive. 
It was her threatening you.

I would be worried, very worried about this wife of yours.
She has habits, strong sexual habits, and that your marriage contract hold little value over her.

Her telling you this, means she does not fear divorce. Monogamy is not in her DNA.

She is not marriage material.

The number of sexual partners she had in the past is known to be high. 
Don't further dwell here.
Let that worry go away.

Worry about any future numbers.


_Are Dee-_


----------



## Trident

arodathon said:


> If that is the case, why did she admit to kissing? I don't understand why she would admit to kissing, but some guy was forcing her to come clean.


Providing a bit of truth alleviates some of the guilt. It's like telling part of a secret, somehow the rest is easier to keep undisclosed. Or perhaps she's worried about acting guilty and you picking up on it or if you happen to all be in the same place at the same time.. well if you already know something "minor" happened that would explain some of the awkwardness that might exist between the 3 of you.

There isn't any logic to it so don't try to find it.


----------



## SunCMars

Well, old boy, pull the plug on this one.

Let some other man deal with and handle those big tits.
Seriously.

They are the real eye-attractor, for sure.
She uses them to her advantage.


_The Typist-_


----------



## arodathon

Trident said:


> Providing a bit of truth alleviates some of the guilt. It's like telling part of a secret, somehow the rest is easier to keep undisclosed. Or perhaps she's worried about acting guilty and you picking up on it or if you happen to all be in the same place at the same time.. well if you already know something "minor" happened that would explain some of the awkwardness that might exist between the 3 of you.
> 
> There isn't any logic to it so don't try to find it.


You say there isn't any logic to it, but all of that makes a lot of sense and feels very logical.


----------



## Mr.Married

Post a picture of those tits and we will let you know if it’s worth the bull-****🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Numb26

Mr.Married said:


> Post a picture of those tits and we will let you know if it’s worth the bull-****🤣🤣🤣🤣


Pics or it never happened!


----------



## dwdj75

arodathon said:


> She admitted it to me after each time. Apparently immediately after it happened, like within days, although who knows if that is the truth.
> 
> Is kissing cheating? Yes, but there are levels of cheating, and obviously kissing isn't as bad as sex. Kissing can be intimate, obviously. But just saying "kissing" doesn't really give a lot of details. Maybe it was a very brief lapse where he dived in to kiss her, and she was caught off guard and took a second to work out what was going on and disengage. But because that means she technically kiss the guy, that she felt guilty and needed to tell me. For what its worth this is sort of how she framed the kissing at the time.


So, the details were never discussed after each incident ? 
So is this the gist of the whole thing :
Incident #1
Wife: "I kissed a guy a couple of days ago."
Arodathon: "That sucks"
Incident #2
Wife: "I kissed a guy a couple of days ago."
Arodathon: "That sucks"
Incident #3 ... etc ?

Do you actually have conversations with your wife, or do you just stare a foot below her face all the time. 
How do you not talk about these instances, especially by the 5th time ?

I guaranf'ngtee you, if reversed, she would have you giving details like the color of the wallpaper you were standing next to.


----------



## arodathon

dwdj75 said:


> So, the details were never discussed after each incident ?
> So is this the gist of the whole thing :
> Incident #1
> Wife: "I kissed a guy a couple of days ago."
> Arodathon: "That sucks"
> Incident #2
> Wife: "I kissed a guy a couple of days ago."
> Arodathon: "That sucks"
> Incident #3 ... etc ?
> 
> Do you actually have conversations with your wife, or do you just stare a foot below her face all the time.
> How do you not talk about these instances, especially by the 5th time ?
> 
> I guaranf'ngtee you, if reversed, she would have you giving details like the color of the wallpaper you were standing next to.


No, obviously not. It was hours of her explained that she felt unwanted and unloved because I was working so much and it had caused her to do something she immediately regretted. 
#1 was the guy at work, I asked for name and details and got no name but some details.
#2 was guy she met online, which then got clarified to a guy that was a friend of a friend that happened to be in town. I asked for details and she gave me a first name only and said she had blocked him on all her accounts.
#3 Was someone connected to someone at work on a works drink, like a friend of a colleague something like that. 
#4 She said it didn't matter who it was but I had been neglecting her and he had felt low and he showed her attention and he took advantage of the situation.
#5 was a guy she knew from her home town, when she was back visiting family


----------



## BigDaddyNY

arodathon said:


> No, obviously not. It was hours of her explained that she felt unwanted and unloved because I was working so much and it had caused her to do something she immediately regretted.
> #1 was the guy at work, I asked for name and details and got no name but some details.
> #2 was guy she met online, which then got clarified to a guy that was a friend of a friend that happened to be in town. I asked for details and she gave me a first name only and said she had blocked him on all her accounts.
> #3 Was someone connected to someone at work on a works drink, like a friend of a colleague something like that.
> #4 She said it didn't matter who it was but I had been neglecting her and he had felt low and he showed her attention and he took advantage of the situation.
> #5 was a guy she knew from her home town, when she was back visiting family


She just gives it out to anyone that wants it, doesn't she?

Be honest, does talking about all this give you a thrill?


----------



## DudeInProgress

arodathon said:


> That's kinda what I'm worried about, only knowing the tip of the iceberg. If she has done more than kissing and she has has sex with another guy, then I don't see how it can only be just one guy. Because if she admitted to kissing 5 guys, and the "kissing" is actually sex, then she cheated on me with at least 5 guys. And if she cheated, then why did she admit to kissing? Was she forced into it by the guilty guys she cheated with? Including a guy in her office, that maybe knew me from then I worked there?!? But there is no way the majority of men would feel guilty in that way? So how many would? 10%? 5%? If 5% of men would force her to come clean, and she told me about 5 guys, then that would mean she actually cheated on me with like 100 guys, and I only know about 5 of them. But that's crazy right? But realistically, how many men would force her to tell me.
> 
> As you far see, I'm goign down a bad rabbit hole.
> 
> And all this is not helped by my conspiracy theory that she'd been with more guys in the office than I knew about. Before I got with her and maybe after too.


Holy **** dude...
How are you possibly this naïve and passive?

You seem to not understand Anything about human nature, female nature or intersexual dynamics.

She has betrayed you, with other men, 5 times (that she admitted to).
Even if it was just kissing (which is HIGHLY unlikely, grown adults don’t hook up just to kiss), that alone is grounds for divorce or at least SERIOUS consequences.

What the hell did you do about that? Other than being a passive doormat?

Women respect strength and boundaries, and despise weak men. She clearly has no respect for you to repeatedly behave as she has.
And your passive tolerance of her betrayal and unacceptable behavior probably tanked any remaining respect she had left.

Understand, I am not being harsh to beat you down, I’m being harsh to wake you up to the really of your situation.
You need to get strong fast, and take control of this situation.


----------



## arodathon

BigDaddyNY said:


> She just gives it out to anyone that wants it, doesn't she?
> 
> Be honest, does talking about all this give you a thrill?


People are asking questions and throwing accusations around and I’m answering them! What makes you think I’m getting off on this?!?


----------



## dwdj75

arodathon said:


> No, obviously not. It was hours of her explained that she felt unwanted and unloved because I was working so much and it had caused her to do something she immediately regretted.
> #1 was the guy at work, I asked for name and details and got no name but some details.
> #2 was guy she met online, which then got clarified to a guy that was a friend of a friend that happened to be in town. I asked for details and she gave me a first name only and said she had blocked him on all her accounts.
> #3 Was someone connected to someone at work on a works drink, like a friend of a colleague something like that.
> #4 She said it didn't matter who it was but I had been neglecting her and he had felt low and he showed her attention and he took advantage of the situation.
> #5 was a guy she knew from her home town, when she was back visiting family


I'm speechless...
I don't know you, but I know you don't deserve this abuse.
I had quite a bit more, but I'm too new. So I'll just tell you this.
She is toxic, you know this.


----------



## dwdj75

So, you know she has a history of being unfaithful.
You know, at the least, she has kissed a minimum of 5 different men since you were together, and after marraige. 
You know this now, so what are you going to do ?


----------



## DudeInProgress

arodathon said:


> She has a lock on her phone and she always keeps it with her, mainly because she is always on it.


So you don’t have access to your wife’s phone and don’t know her password?

Brother, your entire marriage dynamic is ****ed and you’re in big trouble here.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

arodathon said:


> People are asking questions and throwing accusations around and I’m answering them! What makes you think I’m getting off on this?!?


Because in my mind this explains the situation a lot better than you just being utterly naïve and spineless about your wife's behavior. There are two possibilities that I see. One is you are a total doormat that will always let you wife get away with anything she wants. That is what your track record says as of today. And the other is that you somehow, maybe even subconsciously, think it is exciting that other men are so attracted to your wife. You like that she was able to bed 20+ guys before you married. That she is so hot guys have no problem nailing her while she has a BF. You like that all these men are ready and willing to "kiss" her. If you say that isn't the case, then I guess doormat it is. 

Another possibility is this is mostly in your head. In that list of guys you've created, are you sure she slept with all of them? I mean should could have been with a guy someplace, but they hadn't had sex. That isn't likely, but possible, no? All those kisses were just little pecks with no groping or tongue and she was just starved for your attention. Maybe everyone she works with shares all their dirty secrets with her. 

What is it that you really want?


----------



## BigDaddyNY

DudeInProgress said:


> So you don’t have access to your wife’s phone and don’t know her password?
> 
> Brother, your entire marriage dynamic is ****ed and you’re in big trouble here.


Exactly. I don't understand how this is allowed in any marriage. There is nothing any spouse should be doing or saying on their phone that they wouldn't freely share with their spouse.


----------



## DudeInProgress

arodathon said:


> Maybe thats it. But if I had reacted like you all did and would have dumped her on the spot for kissing a guy, then that wouldn't have been a very good testing of the waters. So I'm not sure if that is it


Maybe you don’t dump her on the spot for kissing A guy... but you sure as **** do for kissing 5 guys...
Especially knowing that it’s highly unlikely that they JUST kissed


----------



## Mr.Married

I’ve got a $20 that says she is an A cup. That’s almost as bad as a dude with a small ...........wallet. 🤣


----------



## Rus47

arodathon said:


> That's an interesting idea! Not sure how I would find out the details without her knowing though. I am considering trying to contact some people that worked at the office when I was there, to see if I can get the truth out of them. I don't remember many names though, it was a long time ago and I only worked there about 6 months.


If you just go to the Christmas party and keep ears open mouth shut, they will tell you more than you want to know.

You mentioned that at her workplace she told you that everyone was shagging one another all of the time. I guess UK is different from USA, here the business owner(s) would put a stop to that lawsuit attraction ASAP. All the shaggers would be shagging somewhere else. 

So, since she is a looker and enthusiastic, you have to assume lacking info to contrary that she was/is one of the "everyone" shagging everyone (including homeless men (?!). A thought that came to my mind is if she was thinking to settle and have a child, all of the men she knew at work and elsewhere know all about her, the last thing any of them are going to do is marry her. Heck, she may be known all over your town. You came along and hired in, so you were "fresh meat" that knew nothing of her "reputation". Were you also new to the neighborhood? Evidently she found you attractive enough to marry, stay with, and sire a child. You have the "provider" role, and at least she meets your needs. 
But old habits die hard. Maybe she mentions all of her past lovers to explore your reaction. It would be interesting to know how wide a following/reputation she has on social media. People usually can't resist telling all on social media.


----------



## sideways

arodathon said:


> Well, to be fair, none of you wear a GG cup bra and suck my ****, so the situations aren't comparable!


You say "that's what I'm trying to work out".

There's a lot of things that should concern you about her behavior. Let's say you get confirmation that she is indeed lying and slept with one of these numerous men. What are you going to do about it?

Based upon your previous comments and that she has you mesmerized by her GG breasts seems to me you're not going to do nothing but rug sweep this because you don't think you could do better in regards to looks (you married up remember?) even though it appears she's been playing you from the get go.


----------



## Diana7

Rus47 said:


> Just realize, you could end up divorced, living in a tiny flat with no money. And your next "catch" might wear a padded AA bra, NEVER give you oral, give you duty sex every three months. Read some of the horror stories on this site to see where you might end up.


Or he may meet a lovely faithful and honest lady with integrity. What her bra size is should be irrelevant.


----------



## Diana7

BigDaddyNY said:


> You are right, you missed the signs and here you are having to deal with it, understood.
> 
> She may not have said those words, but that was the thought behind them. Very insensitive of her to talk about, but I suspect you never raised any objection when she has done that.
> 
> Your initial post described a marriage in which you are happy and you have said you are in love. It also sounds like you have a good sex life and a child. Do any of your recent revelations change that?
> 
> Some options...
> 
> Tell her she has already crossed too many boundaries and get divorced.
> Try to establish clearer/new boundaries with her (this requires you to have a enough backbone to enforce, do not create boundaries that you won't stick to)
> Look past these recent revelations, stop digging deeper into them and go on with your happy marriage enjoying those big boobs and BJs. Life could be worse.


How much better life would be with a lady who doesn't lie or cheat.


----------



## Diana7

Kaliber said:


> Welcome to the UK, where men are stuck in limbo and too scared to stir the water, they usually end up being doormats and pussified, some of them would rather be cuckold than to take action to protect their dignity and self respect!
> I worked there for many many years and have a huge circle of friend to this day, saw with my own eyes how men deal with infidelity, it's very sad!
> This new generation of "boys" are so missed up, it's not even funny!
> The west in general is missed up!


I am British and you clearly didn't get to know that many people.


----------



## Diana7

arodathon said:


> No, obviously not. It was hours of her explained that she felt unwanted and unloved because I was working so much and it had caused her to do something she immediately regretted.
> #1 was the guy at work, I asked for name and details and got no name but some details.
> #2 was guy she met online, which then got clarified to a guy that was a friend of a friend that happened to be in town. I asked for details and she gave me a first name only and said she had blocked him on all her accounts.
> #3 Was someone connected to someone at work on a works drink, like a friend of a colleague something like that.
> #4 She said it didn't matter who it was but I had been neglecting her and he had felt low and he showed her attention and he took advantage of the situation.
> #5 was a guy she knew from her home town, when she was back visiting family


So she blamed you for all the times she cheated. And you swallowed it. Wow.


----------



## Kaliber

Diana7 said:


> I am British and you clearly didn't get to know that many people.


I know enough when you date around for many years


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Diana7 said:


> How much better life would be with a lady who doesn't lie or cheat.


I just said it in another post. I thank God for the woman I am married to, I don't take it for granted.


----------



## Diana7

Kaliber said:


> I know enough when you date around for many years


Depends on the type of people you date I guess.


----------



## TAMAT

Kaliber,

I suspect, but am not sure, that your WW is a habitual liar and lies not just about cheating on you, but everything else.

I would not be surprised if you find out you are dead broke because she gambled away all the families money or spent it on stupid expensive fashion items, or even gave some to OMs.

If the child is yours you have to find out what is going on to protect the childs future. Your WW is a car wreck waiting to happen.

BTW kissing men can lead to rape if a drunken man thinks it's an invitation.

What I've seen in life is that liars are very good at hiding their lies but once they are found out a flood follows.


----------



## Rus47

Diana7 said:


> Or he may meet a lovely faithful and honest lady with integrity. What her bra size is should be irrelevant.


Maybe "should" be, but often isn't. Just like a man's bank account, height, weight, and "other" measurements.


----------



## SunCMars

arodathon said:


> People are asking questions and throwing accusations around and I’m answering them! *What makes you think I’m getting off on this?!?*


Well, no, not well, some men get off on wayward behavior.

Sad, but true, as is life.

For the record, I doubt this is the case with you.

Some people are naturally cynical, and have become jaded, and they think others are also jaded.

We see others through our own-minded lenses.

Umm.



_Are Dee-_


----------



## SunCMars

Diana7 said:


> Or he may meet a lovely faithful and honest lady with integrity. _What her bra size is should be irrelevant._


Ah, that we blind all men.

That we blind all men to these utter, other, 'udder' distractions....


----------



## uphillbattle

Mr.Married said:


> Post a picture of those tits and we will let you know if it’s worth the bull-****🤣🤣🤣🤣


Thanks, I just spit out my coffee.


----------



## ccpowerslave

Diana7 said:


> Or he may meet a lovely faithful and honest lady with integrity. What her bra size is should be irrelevant.


But what if she’s like an A cup?


----------



## Mr.Married

ccpowerslave said:


> But what if she’s like an A cup?


I’d rather have one with a training bra and one leg 6 inches shorter than the other than what he has ...


----------



## uphillbattle

Mr.Married said:


> I’d rather have one with a training bra and one leg 6 inches shorter than the other than what he has got.


/\ /\ TRUTH /\ /\


----------



## Livvie

ccpowerslave said:


> But what if she’s like an A cup?


? What if she is? Plenty of men think A cup women are hot.


----------



## ccpowerslave

Livvie said:


> ? What if she is? Plenty of men think A cup women are hot.


This was a joke, I would be included in that list. Was just pointing out the absurdity in this line of thinking.


----------



## Gabriel

arodathon said:


> No, obviously not. It was hours of her explained that she felt unwanted and unloved because I was working so much and it had caused her to do something she immediately regretted.
> #1 was the guy at work, I asked for name and details and got no name but some details.
> #2 was guy she met online, which then got clarified to a guy that was a friend of a friend that happened to be in town. I asked for details and she gave me a first name only and said she had blocked him on all her accounts.
> #3 Was someone connected to someone at work on a works drink, like a friend of a colleague something like that.
> #4 She said it didn't matter who it was but I had been neglecting her and he had felt low and he showed her attention and he took advantage of the situation.
> #5 was a guy she knew from her home town, when she was back visiting family


100% sure she is using the "I felt neglected" as an excuse in retrospect to try to get away with this.

How can you be with someone who keeps cheating on you?

Have some damn self respect.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Arod, have you asked her if she was okay for you to kiss other women as well?


----------



## AlabamaWorley

arodathon said:


> Why do you think I'm accepting of it??!?! I've said that the thought of it freaks me out! But I don't know for a fact yet, that it was her that did that, although I am leaning that way. And of course I'm not accepting of it, why do you think I'm here, considering my options?!?


I’m


arodathon said:


> Well, to be fair, none of you wear a GG cup bra and suck my ****, so the situations aren't comparable!


I’ve never commented on here but read a ton and have to respond to this.

Think long term ffs. Her boobs are great now, you said she’s hot, sucks your ****, etc.
But what about when she is older? You’ll be married to her with her once huge boobs now hanging down to her belly button, her face lined from years of guilt over hiding things, and stuck with the same lying, deceitful personality. You seem very good hearted and wanting to think the best of her, but you’re so blinded by big boobs and blow jobs that you can’t see her insides are rotten.


----------



## Diana7

Rus47 said:


> Maybe "should" be, but often isn't. Just like a man's bank account, height, weight, and "other" measurements.


I am sure there are many of us who would rather have a decent person than worry about shallow things.


----------



## Diana7

ccpowerslave said:


> But what if she’s like an A cup?


So what? Many women with small boobs are happily married.


----------



## ccpowerslave

Diana7 said:


> So what? Many women with small boobs are happily married.


It was a joke.


----------



## manwithnoname

Diana7 said:


> So what? Many women with small boobs are happily married.


Happily married, but happy with their boob size? 

I'm happy with mine, they are not sagging, yet.


----------



## SunCMars

Livvie said:


> ? What if she is? Plenty of men think A cup women are hot.


I know _THRD_ does.
His _Nellie _has those.

And, so do I.

_Lilith-_


----------



## SunCMars

ccpowerslave said:


> It was a joke.


I set this bra on fire.


_The Typist-_


----------



## DudeInProgress

ccpowerslave said:


> It was a joke.


No, it’s toxic masculinity. And you’re a fiend and a villain for saying it. 
And anyone else who wasn’t offended by it is guilty of proliferating your patriarchal reign of terror.


----------



## Rus47

AlabamaWorley said:


> I’m
> 
> 
> I’ve never commented on here but read a ton and have to respond to this.
> 
> Think long term ffs. Her boobs are great now, you said she’s hot, sucks your ****, etc.
> But what about when she is older? You’ll be married to her with her once huge boobs now hanging down to her belly button, her face lined from years of guilt over hiding things, and stuck with the same lying, deceitful personality. You seem very good hearted and wanting to think the best of her, but you’re so blinded by big boobs and blow jobs that you can’t see her insides are rotten.


But, she won't be in as much demand so maybe the cheating (if it is actually happening now) will slow down.

The OP is married with a child. He was originally attracted to her physical charms, so what is new about that? Evidently he wasn't the only one attracted. She treats him well in the bedroom, there are tons of men on this site complaining their wives have them on a starvation diet, sex once in six months. If he hadn't had some conversations about her previous relationships he wouldn't even be posting here. Most of us ( including me ) suspect (but don't actually know) that his wife may be more unfaithful than he knows about. But if he just heads for divorce court, he can very easily end up worse off than he is now. Maybe he has to move to Thailand and leave his child in UK. Again, bunches on this site who end up broken financially, emotionally and sexually going through the divorce game. What assurance does he have that his next wife isn't a serial cheater?

IMO he needs to carefully consider the possible paths forward and the consequences of those. Then decide which presents the least unhappiness for him and his child. Maybe he would be fine living in an open marriage. Not for everyone, but there are people who succeed in that. Or maybe his wife isn't the wanton wayward a lot of us believe her to be.


----------



## HappilyMarried1

A question for you @arodathon I know you said I think you have been together or married now I think 5 years how long has it been since the last time she cheated (yes I call it cheating when she kisses another guy) and have you noticed any signs when thinking about it now before each of the 5 times.


----------



## arodathon

The process of making this post has been both horrific, but also kinda of clarifying.

I don't think I've made it clear the difference between when I have been trying to explain how I felt at the time and justified her actions to myself in the past Vs how I feel about them now.

Also I think I should have realised that a nuanced position is rarely taken well on the internet. Everyone has an extreme reaction and demands that everyone else has one too.

So, to clarify:

I agree that my wife kissing other men during our relationship was massive betrayal, and I was felt hurt and upset at the time. But at the time I accepted her version of events and partially blamed myself because she managed to convince me that I had neglected her and that was the reason it happened.

I now see that she completely gaslit me, and there is every possibility she was "trickle truthing" me.

It's unclear why she would voluntarily admit to this if it was hiding something bigger, but a number of theories have been suggested here.

Given that, either:
- What happened was broadly in line with what she said and she did only kiss them, and she felt guilty and had to come clean.
OR
- She was trickle truthing me, she said she only kissed them, but she actually slept with those 5 guys and those were just the ones that she was force to admit to me, for some reason. There are more, potentially a lot more, that I don't know about.

If the first option is true then, while what she did was horrible, I felt with the pain and hurt at the time, and I'm not going to blow up my marriage for something that we'd already dealt with a move past. You can think what you want about me for that, but we all have our tollerances for dealing with the messiness of relationships.

Regarding her office, the past and us getting together:

I'm pretty certain she lied about how many guys she had slept with before me, by at least a factor of 3x, and I suspect a lot more.

It sucks that she lied and it is what kicked off all my doubts, but it's common for women to lie about their body counts and I can understand her being worried it would have upset me....because it did! I am concerned that I don't know the actual number, and concerned that maybe she doesn't, because I only know it's at least 30, I have number upper limit on what the number could actually be. If it's actually 30, it will be able to deal with that, but if it's like 300, that is a different matter! Maybe I should talk to her about this no matter what, but I feel like I would never know if what she was telling me was actually the truth, so why bother?

Yes, the fact that when I met her she was cheating on her boyfriend with at least one guy, and later also with me, was a HUGE red flag that I missed. There are number of reasons why I miss it or ignored it, and we have covered a lot of them here.

However, I accepted her and her situation at the time, I believed her version of events at the time, and I'm not going to blow up my marriage because of something that she will rightfully say I knew at the time.

For what it's worth, I regret mentioning my wife's body. It was stupid and childish of me and I regret it. Her body isn't the only reason I was attracted to her, it was also her warm personality, her friendliness and her sense of humour.

Given everything I've mentioned, there are many unanswered questions about some of the things she said about her office, regarding all the gossip and rumours (its a govenment department by the way, maybe it's different in the US, but it's really hard to get fired from a government job in the UK, even if you are bad at your job and even if you are shagging half the department).

So, I see only 2 possibilities:

- She's telling the truth, there was a lot shagging going on between other people in the office, she found out about these in many different ways and she told me about them because she likes to gossip.
OR
- It wasn't old, straight laced, unassuming women that were, between them, shagging pretty much every guy in the section, if not the building, it was actually her. She'd been making her way around the guys of the building, since before I knew her, including the dweeby guy in the office who lost her virginity to her (I've just remembered that detail!). This means she also has taken homeless guys home, cleaned them up and shagged them, and it seems like she did the same with a homeless guy during our relationship.

If the first situation is true then I don't think I have anything to worry about. If the second is true then she has basically been playing me for a fool this whole time, and has definitely been cheating on me this whole time with probably more men than I can count.

This is absolutely the disaster scenario, and I would need to decide how I deal with whats left of our marriage going forward. Obviously confronting her and divorce is the most obvious option, but it is also what would cause the most disruption to my life and my kid's life. Others have suggested basically just turning a blind eye and pretending I don't know. The is an part of me that just wants to wave a magic wand and keep my rose tinted glasses on, but I don't know if I can put the genie back in the bottle. Really don't know about it.

So. The 2 possibilities, as someone above put it, is that I'm either:

- A doormat that has been used by her and cheated on for years
OR
- Being paranoid and exaggerating things in my head, and I have a mostly fine marriage, even though my wife been hurtful in the past.

I'm an analytical person, so I'm trying to put percentages on how likely I think each of those 2 possibilities are. Currently I think I'm at:

Doormat: 40%
Paranoid: 60%

But it changes on an almost hourly basis. 

What do you all think the percentages are? It would help to know.


----------



## arodathon

Rus47 said:


> But, she won't be in as much demand so maybe the cheating (if it is actually happening now) will slow down.
> 
> The OP is married with a child. He was originally attracted to her physical charms, so what is new about that? Evidently he wasn't the only one attracted. She treats him well in the bedroom, there are tons of men on this site complaining their wives have them on a starvation diet, sex once in six months. If he hadn't had some conversations about her previous relationships he wouldn't even be posting here. Most of us ( including me ) suspect (but don't actually know) that his wife may be more unfaithful than he knows about. But if he just heads for divorce court, he can very easily end up worse off than he is now. Maybe he has to move to Thailand and leave his child in UK. Again, bunches on this site who end up broken financially, emotionally and sexually going through the divorce game. What assurance does he have that his next wife isn't a serial cheater?
> 
> IMO he needs to carefully consider the possible paths forward and the consequences of those. Then decide which presents the least unhappiness for him and his child. Maybe he would be fine living in an open marriage. Not for everyone, but there are people who succeed in that. Or maybe his wife isn't the wanton wayward a lot of us believe her to be.


Really appreciate the understanding of this reply. Thank you


----------



## arodathon

HappilyMarried1 said:


> A question for you @arodathon I know you said I think you have been together or married now I think 5 years how long has it been since the last time she cheated (yes I call it cheating when she kisses another guy) and have you noticed any signs when thinking about it now before each of the 5 times.


Last time was maybe 3 years ago. It feels like a long time ago, if that makes a difference. 
I never noticied any signs, but when she was admit to them each time, she told me I was distant. I didn't think I was, but I can be quite oblivious sometimes.


----------



## Rus47

arodathon said:


> The process of making this post has been both horrific, but also kinda of clarifying.
> 
> I don't think I've made it clear the difference between when I have been trying to explain how I felt at the time and justified her actions to myself in the past Vs how I feel about them now.
> 
> Also I think I should have realised that a nuanced position is rarely taken well on the internet. Everyone has an extreme reaction and demands that everyone else has one too.
> 
> So, to clarify:
> 
> I agree that my wife kissing other men during our relationship was massive betrayal, and I was felt hurt and upset at the time. But at the time I accepted her version of events and partially blamed myself because she managed to convince me that I had neglected her and that was the reason it happened.
> 
> I now see that she completely gaslit me, and there is every possibility she was "trickle truthing" me.
> 
> It's unclear why she would voluntarily admit to this if it was hiding something bigger, but a number of theories have been suggested here.
> 
> Given that, either:
> - What happened was broadly in line with what she said and she did only kiss them, and she felt guilty and had to come clean.
> OR
> - She was trickle truthing me, she said she only kissed them, but she actually slept with those 5 guys and those were just the ones that she was force to admit to me, for some reason. There are more, potentially a lot more, that I don't know about.
> 
> If the first option is true then, while what she did was horrible, I felt with the pain and hurt at the time, and I'm not going to blow up my marriage for something that we'd already dealt with a move past. You can think what you want about me for that, but we all have our tollerances for dealing with the messiness of relationships.
> 
> Regarding her office, the past and us getting together:
> 
> I'm pretty certain she lied about how many guys she had slept with before me, by at least a factor of 3x, and I suspect a lot more.
> 
> It sucks that she lied and it is what kicked off all my doubts, but it's common for women to lie about their body counts and I can understand her being worried it would have upset me....because it did! I am concerned that I don't know the actual number, and concerned that maybe she doesn't, because I only know it's at least 30, I have number upper limit on what the number could actually be. If it's actually 30, it will be able to deal with that, but if it's like 300, that is a different matter! Maybe I should talk to her about this no matter what, but I feel like I would never know if what she was telling me was actually the truth, so why bother?
> 
> Yes, the fact that when I met her she was cheating on her boyfriend with at least one guy, and later also with me, was a HUGE red flag that I missed. There are number of reasons why I miss it or ignored it, and we have covered a lot of them here.
> 
> However, I accepted her and her situation at the time, I believed her version of events at the time, and I'm not going to blow up my marriage because of something that she will rightfully say I knew at the time.
> 
> For what it's worth, I regret mentioning my wife's body. It was stupid and childish of me and I regret it. Her body isn't the only reason I was attracted to her, it was also her warm personality, her friendliness and her sense of humour.
> 
> Given everything I've mentioned, there are many unanswered questions about some of the things she said about her office, regarding all the gossip and rumours (its a govenment department by the way, maybe it's different in the US, but it's really hard to get fired from a government job in the UK, even if you are bad at your job and even if you are shagging half the department).
> 
> So, I see only 2 possibilities:
> 
> - She's telling the truth, there was a lot shagging going on between other people in the office, she found out about these in many different ways and she told me about them because she likes to gossip.
> OR
> - It wasn't old, straight laced, unassuming women that were, between them, shagging pretty much every guy in the section, if not the building, it was actually her. She'd been making her way around the guys of the building, since before I knew her, including the dweeby guy in the office who lost her virginity to her (I've just remembered that detail!). This means she also has taken homeless guys home, cleaned them up and shagged them, and it seems like she did the same with a homeless guy during our relationship.
> 
> If the first situation is true then I don't think I have anything to worry about. If the second is true then she has basically been playing me for a fool this whole time, and has definitely been cheating on me this whole time with probably more men than I can count.
> 
> This is absolutely the disaster scenario, and I would need to decide how I deal with whats left of our marriage going forward. Obviously confronting her and divorce is the most obvious option, but it is also what would cause the most disruption to my life and my kid's life. Others have suggested basically just turning a blind eye and pretending I don't know. The is an part of me that just wants to wave a magic wand and keep my rose tinted glasses on, but I don't know if I can put the genie back in the bottle. Really don't know about it.
> 
> So. The 2 possibilities, as someone above put it, is that I'm either:
> 
> - A doormat that has been used by her and cheated on for years
> OR
> - Being paranoid and exaggerating things in my head, and I have a mostly fine marriage, even though my wife been hurtful in the past.
> 
> I'm an analytical person, so I'm trying to put percentages on how likely I think each of those 2 possibilities are. Currently I think I'm at:
> 
> Doormat: 40%
> Paranoid: 60%
> 
> But it changes on an almost hourly basis.
> 
> What do you all think the percentages are? It would help to know.


The answer is unknowable. Does she have a social media presence? Do you have access to her cellphone? Can you afford a Private Investigator?

You need more evidence.


----------



## seasalt

Why aren't you discussing how you feel about everything you've disclosed with your wife? Her response(s) should be all you need to know about whether your marriage is worth saving.

Just sayin

Seasalt


----------



## arodathon

seasalt said:


> Why aren't you discussing how you feel about everything you've disclosed with your wife? Her response(s) should be all you need to know about whether your marriage is worth saving.
> 
> Just sayin
> 
> Seasalt


Because if she is lying to me, then talking to her would just bring more lies. She's manipulated me in the past to make me feel like it was my fault, so whose to say she wouldn't do it again. 

I wish we had a type of relationship were I could just ask all these questions without it setting off alarm bells and it being a big deal. But if that was the case, we probably wouldn't be here.


----------



## arodathon

Rus47 said:


> The answer is unknowable. Does she have a social media presence? Do you have access to her cellphone? Can you afford a Private Investigator?
> 
> You need more evidence.


One thing I was thinking of doing was to try and get in contact with someone from her work, from when I worked there and try to get some information. But I would need to find someone who:

Remembers me from when I worked there, which was years ago, and only for 6 months
Likes me more than my wife, so they would be honest and not tip her off
Isn't currently sleeping with her!
Wasn't cheating on their current wife with her in the past
Is someone whose name I remember and can find contact details for

So far I'm drawing a blank on who to contact.


----------



## seasalt

You've answered the question about a discussion with your wife but it seems you've also answered the question about whether your relationship is worth saving.

Sorry and I'll go back into the ether.

Seasalt


----------



## Rus47

arodathon said:


> One thing I was thinking of doing was to try and get in contact with someone from her work, from when I worked there and try to get some information. But I would need to find someone who:
> 
> Remembers me from when I worked there, which was years ago, and only for 6 months
> Likes me more than my wife, so they would be honest and not tip her off
> Isn't currently sleeping with her!
> Wasn't cheating on their current wife with her in the past
> Is someone whose name I remember and can find contact details for
> 
> So far I'm drawing a blank on who to contact.


They dont need to be all of those. Find someone who knew you and spend some time LISTENING. Over lunch or drinks.


----------



## DudeInProgress

arodathon said:


> The process of making this post has been both horrific, but also kinda of clarifying.
> 
> I don't think I've made it clear the difference between when I have been trying to explain how I felt at the time and justified her actions to myself in the past Vs how I feel about them now.
> 
> Also I think I should have realised that a nuanced position is rarely taken well on the internet. Everyone has an extreme reaction and demands that everyone else has one too.
> 
> So, to clarify:
> 
> I agree that my wife kissing other men during our relationship was massive betrayal, and I was felt hurt and upset at the time. But at the time I accepted her version of events and partially blamed myself because she managed to convince me that I had neglected her and that was the reason it happened.
> 
> I now see that she completely gaslit me, and there is every possibility she was "trickle truthing" me.
> 
> It's unclear why she would voluntarily admit to this if it was hiding something bigger, but a number of theories have been suggested here.
> 
> Given that, either:
> - What happened was broadly in line with what she said and she did only kiss them, and she felt guilty and had to come clean.
> OR
> - She was trickle truthing me, she said she only kissed them, but she actually slept with those 5 guys and those were just the ones that she was force to admit to me, for some reason. There are more, potentially a lot more, that I don't know about.
> 
> If the first option is true then, while what she did was horrible, I felt with the pain and hurt at the time, and I'm not going to blow up my marriage for something that we'd already dealt with a move past. You can think what you want about me for that, but we all have our tollerances for dealing with the messiness of relationships.
> 
> Regarding her office, the past and us getting together:
> 
> I'm pretty certain she lied about how many guys she had slept with before me, by at least a factor of 3x, and I suspect a lot more.
> 
> It sucks that she lied and it is what kicked off all my doubts, but it's common for women to lie about their body counts and I can understand her being worried it would have upset me....because it did! I am concerned that I don't know the actual number, and concerned that maybe she doesn't, because I only know it's at least 30, I have number upper limit on what the number could actually be. If it's actually 30, it will be able to deal with that, but if it's like 300, that is a different matter! Maybe I should talk to her about this no matter what, but I feel like I would never know if what she was telling me was actually the truth, so why bother?
> 
> Yes, the fact that when I met her she was cheating on her boyfriend with at least one guy, and later also with me, was a HUGE red flag that I missed. There are number of reasons why I miss it or ignored it, and we have covered a lot of them here.
> 
> However, I accepted her and her situation at the time, I believed her version of events at the time, and I'm not going to blow up my marriage because of something that she will rightfully say I knew at the time.
> 
> For what it's worth, I regret mentioning my wife's body. It was stupid and childish of me and I regret it. Her body isn't the only reason I was attracted to her, it was also her warm personality, her friendliness and her sense of humour.
> 
> Given everything I've mentioned, there are many unanswered questions about some of the things she said about her office, regarding all the gossip and rumours (its a govenment department by the way, maybe it's different in the US, but it's really hard to get fired from a government job in the UK, even if you are bad at your job and even if you are shagging half the department).
> 
> So, I see only 2 possibilities:
> 
> - She's telling the truth, there was a lot shagging going on between other people in the office, she found out about these in many different ways and she told me about them because she likes to gossip.
> OR
> - It wasn't old, straight laced, unassuming women that were, between them, shagging pretty much every guy in the section, if not the building, it was actually her. She'd been making her way around the guys of the building, since before I knew her, including the dweeby guy in the office who lost her virginity to her (I've just remembered that detail!). This means she also has taken homeless guys home, cleaned them up and shagged them, and it seems like she did the same with a homeless guy during our relationship.
> 
> If the first situation is true then I don't think I have anything to worry about. If the second is true then she has basically been playing me for a fool this whole time, and has definitely been cheating on me this whole time with probably more men than I can count.
> 
> This is absolutely the disaster scenario, and I would need to decide how I deal with whats left of our marriage going forward. Obviously confronting her and divorce is the most obvious option, but it is also what would cause the most disruption to my life and my kid's life. Others have suggested basically just turning a blind eye and pretending I don't know. The is an part of me that just wants to wave a magic wand and keep my rose tinted glasses on, but I don't know if I can put the genie back in the bottle. Really don't know about it.
> 
> So. The 2 possibilities, as someone above put it, is that I'm either:
> 
> - A doormat that has been used by her and cheated on for years
> OR
> - Being paranoid and exaggerating things in my head, and I have a mostly fine marriage, even though my wife been hurtful in the past.
> 
> I'm an analytical person, so I'm trying to put percentages on how likely I think each of those 2 possibilities are. Currently I think I'm at:
> 
> Doormat: 40%
> Paranoid: 60%
> 
> But it changes on an almost hourly basis.
> 
> What do you all think the percentages are? It would help to know.


Um, no one is telling you that you’re paranoid, because you’re not.
Your wife has betrayed you several times and you probably don’t actually know the extent of it.

And what have you done about it thus far?

Do you have any boundaries at all?

Who is leading this marriage, it doesn’t sound like it’s you?


----------



## AlabamaWorley

arodathon said:


> One thing I was thinking of doing was to try and get in contact with someone from her work, from when I worked there and try to get some information. But I would need to find someone who:
> 
> Remembers me from when I worked there, which was years ago, and only for 6 months
> Likes me more than my wife, so they would be honest and not tip her off
> Isn't currently sleeping with her!
> Wasn't cheating on their current wife with her in the past
> Is someone whose name I remember and can find contact details for
> 
> So far I'm drawing a blank on who to contact.


Go out with her and her co workers and see if anyone seems approachable. If she’s truly having sex with the men at work, or if it’s her giving a blow job under the desk, there will be a female there who will happily tell you all she knows. May take a while to get the person to freely open up but it’ll happen.


----------



## arodathon

DudeInProgress said:


> Um, no one is telling you that you’re paranoid, because you’re not.
> Your wife has betrayed you several times and you probably don’t actually no the extent of it.
> 
> And what have you done about it that’s far?
> 
> Do you have any boundaries at all?
> 
> Who is leading this marriage, it doesn’t sound like it’s you?


A couple of people on here have suggested it might be all in my head, and I agree it's possible.

What have I done? 

Worried about it a whole lot
Tried to look at her phone, but she always has it with her and it's locked.
Asked her out of the blue if she remember the homeless guy that she befriended and wasn't it weird when he turned up at our door. She said yeah. I asked how he knew where we lived? She said don't know maybe he followed us home. She seemed pretty unfazed given he might have been basically stalking her!
Tried the remember the names of people I worked with at her office and look them up on Facebook, no luck yet.
Asked her about the office Christmas party this year. She said she doesn't think it's going ahead due to COVID

We never sat own and discussed "boundaries" I didn't realise that was a thing people did. Obviously I want her to be faithful, and she knows that, and she knows that kissing another guy or anything else is not ok.

Whose leading the marriage? We haven't designated a tribal leader! Sorry, didn't realise that was required.


----------



## arodathon

AlabamaWorley said:


> Go out with her and her co workers and see if anyone seems approachable. If she’s truly having sex with the men at work, or if it’s her giving a blow job under the desk, there will be a female there who will happily tell you all she knows. May take a while to get the person to freely open up but it’ll happen.


Easier said than done. I only find out about drinks with her co-workers when she's already on them, often. They are happening less during COVID. And I wouldn't know how to find out.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Is she willing to take a polygraph to validate her truth? At least it will bring some answers


----------



## arodathon

Lostinthought61 said:


> Is she willing to take a polygraph to validate her truth? At least it will bring some answers


I haven't confronted here about any of this really, so I don't know. But I'm in the UK, I don't know how/if there are polygraph factilities available.


----------



## DudeInProgress

arodathon said:


> A couple of people on here have suggested it might be all in my head, and I agree it's possible.
> 
> What have I done?
> 
> Worried about it a whole lot
> Tried to look at her phone, but she always has it with her and it's locked.
> Asked her out of the blue if she remember the homeless guy that she befriended and wasn't it weird when he turned up at our door. She said yeah. I asked how he knew where we lived? She said don't know maybe he followed us home. She seemed pretty unfazed given he might have been basically stalking her!
> Tried the remember the names of people I worked with at her office and look them up on Facebook, no luck yet.
> Asked her about the office Christmas party this year. She said she doesn't think it's going ahead due to COVID
> 
> We never sat own and discussed "boundaries" I didn't realise that was a thing people did. Obviously I want her to be faithful, and she knows that, and she knows that kissing another guy or anything else is not ok.
> 
> Whose leading the marriage? We haven't designated a tribal leader! Sorry, didn't realise that was required.


There is a leader in your marriage dude. And if you don’t know who it is, it isn’t you.

Most women want and expect their husband to lead. Women respect strength and leadershhip, and generally despise weak, passive men.

You can tell her you want to look at her phone and ask for it to be handed over immediately. It’s OK, as a husband (or wife) you get to do that. 
You should actually already know her password, and if she’s reluctant to give it, that’s a massive ****ing problem.

i’m not telling you this beat you up, I’m telling you this to wake you up.
From everything you’ve written, you don’t seem to have any real boundaries with your wife. 

And that’s probably part of the reason you keep getting cheated on, and that’s the reason she acts inappropriately.

She most likely doesn’t respect you because you’re not leading your marriage as a strong, confident man with standards and expectations of what he will and will not tolerate in his marriage.


----------



## manowar

Mr.Married said:


> The current crop of men in the world make me experience such intense second hand embarrassment that I have a hard time reading their post. You just can’t make this stuff up.



I know! WTF happened.


----------



## In Absentia

arodathon said:


> Doormat: 40%
> Paranoid: 60%
> 
> But it changes on an almost hourly basis.
> 
> What do you all think the percentages are? It would help to know.


Doormat 70%
Paranoid 30%

Sorry... the situation is highly unacceptable to me.


----------



## arodathon

In Absentia said:


> Doormat 70%
> Paranoid 30%
> 
> Sorry... the situation is highly unacceptable to me.


Sorry, just realised I got the percentages the wrong way round.

For me it’s
Doormat 60%
Paranoid 40%


----------



## In Absentia

arodathon said:


> Sorry, just realised I got the percentages the wrong way round.
> 
> For me it’s
> Doormat 60%
> Paranoid 40%


Slightly better...


----------



## arodathon

In Absentia said:


> Slightly better...


The more I think back on stuff the more concerning things I remember, so that percentage may change


----------



## arodathon

Just found out (from someone on here) that being a "people pleaser" like a medical/mental diagnosis. My wife is 100% a people pleasure, I often put it down to her being a friendly Northerner (people in the North of England often seem more generally friendly to people and strangers than people in the South). But things about it always bothered me, for example, when we go out for a meal with other couples she INSISTS that we pay for the meal. I've got no problem with paying for the meal, but sometimes the other couple want to pay just to even things up or just because that is the way normal people work, but she absolutely refuses to let them and we have to pay. To the point where it's embarrassing and uncomfortable for everyone present.

Not sure if that means I was too quick to dismiss the mental illness comment that someone made. Maybe she does have a mental illness, I'm not sure. But if she does, doesn't that mean she needs help, not abandoning, rejection and divorce?


----------



## In Absentia

arodathon said:


> Not sure if that means I was too quick to dismiss the mental illness comment that someone made. Maybe she does have a mental illness, I'm not sure. But if she does, doesn't that mean she needs help, not abandoning, rejection and divorce?


It was me...  It could be just a light mental disorder, but I don't really know how you can get to the bottom of it. I get the Northern type, but to me she sounds a bit deranged... Of course, if she has a mental issue, she needs help, not a divorce.


----------



## Rus47

arodathon said:


> Easier said than done. I only find out about drinks with her co-workers when she's already on them, often. They are happening less during COVID. And I wouldn't know how to find out.


Do you know where they go for drinks? What would happen if you just started stopping by that place at about the right time. Get acquainted with the people working there. What would wife say if you told her "I want to start going with you to have some drinks with your coworkers. Reconnect with my old acquaintances"? Or "when you next go out for drinks, call me from the place and I will join you".

BTW, who is caring for your child while she is off having drinks with coworkers? Are her ex BFs among the coworkers?


----------



## MJJEAN

arodathon said:


> But I found out recently that she lied about how many guys she had been with before me,


She's a liar.



arodathon said:


> When we met, she was living with her boyfriend, but also seeing a guy at the office behind her boyfriends back.


She's a cheater.



arodathon said:


> But some stuff seems really weird, like if she was going behind her boyfriends back with this guy in the office, and she would go out for drinks with her boyfriend and people from the office, then why wasn't it more secretive? Everyone knew she was going with that guy. Why did they not keep it more hidden?


She's so comfortable cheating she doesn't even bother to really hide it. And this is from experience. Once I got comfortable cheating I didn't bother to hide it, either.



arodathon said:


> My wife has admitted to me on 5 separate occasions that she has kissed another guy. One was a guy at her office, another was a guy she met online, and there were some other guys. Looking back it sounds really bad, but at the time she made me feel like it was my fault for not giving her enough attention and being distant.


Not surprising. Cheaters cheat.



arodathon said:


> And at the time I felt like she was being honest about her mistakes. And each incident was at least a year apart.


A one time thing is a mistake. This is a pattern of behavior.

But, hey, it's ok! Your wife is a serial cheater who cheats on you, but she only does it about once a year! No big deal.



arodathon said:


> Which is the seems like the LAST guy in the office she would sleep with because he WAS the last guys in the office that she slept with. Maybe she'd slept with a lot of guys in the office and he was just the current one she was on. It sounds like paranoia


Did you seriously just admit you think it's entirely possible your wife is such a tramp this last guy is the only one she hasn't fooled around with? Because I think you're right.



arodathon said:


> Maybe she does have a mental illness, I'm not sure. But if she does, doesn't that mean she needs help, not abandoning, rejection and divorce?


She doesn't have a mental illness. She's a garden variety cheater and you're a garden variety man with no spine and low self esteem willing to delude yourself into staying with her.


----------



## arodathon

Rus47 said:


> Do you know where they go for drinks? What would happen if you just started stopping by that place at about the right time. Get acquainted with the people working there. What would wife say if you told her "I want to start going with you to have some drinks with your coworkers. Reconnect with my old acquaintances"? Or "when you next go out for drinks, call me from the place and I will join you".
> 
> BTW, who is caring for your child while she is off having drinks with coworkers? Are her ex BFs among the coworkers?


There are a bunch of pubs near her office, when I was there the pub they ended up in would vary.
What would happen if I just started turning up? I would need to find a baby sitter and my wife would find it VERY ODD and would know something was up. I'm not much of a socialiser, or a drinker, so she would know that is was out of the ordinary. Plus if I go out for drinks when she it there, I find it very unlikely that anyone there would suddenly spill the beans on who she has been cheating with. Any guy that is there that IS cheating with her is not going to tell me. Any guy that is married is probably not going to want to get involved, and I was there for 6 months and no-one told me she'd been shagging the whole building, so either she wasn't, or no one wanted to stick their neck out to tell me.

Who is looking after my child? She is a government employee and an "essential worker" by the UK government's definition so apart from the few major lockdowns, she has been in the office the whole of the pandemic. I now work in tech and so I've been working from home since March 2020. Our kid is in nursery during the day and I pick them up and drop them off. So I am looking after our child when she stays late with work, or goes out for work drinks. She knows that I'm not happy with her going out for drinks all the time. Sometimes she has taken the piss, but usually its no more than once a week.

Are her ex bfs among the co-workers? The guy she was seeing when I met her. He transferred to another office, although that was after I left, so I only have her word for that. The guy that she admitted kissing from the office, he left the office too, although she never told me his name, and I only have her word for that too. As for other "exes" that are among her co-workers, well that all depends if my rumour/gossip theory is true or paranoia. If its true, then most of her co-workers are an ex of some description, if its not, then none of them are.


----------



## Rus47

arodathon said:


> There are a bunch of pubs near her office, when I was there the pub they ended up in would vary.
> What would happen if I just started turning up? I would need to find a baby sitter and my wife would find it VERY ODD and would know something was up. I'm not much of a socialiser, or a drinker, so she would know that is was out of the ordinary. Plus if I go out for drinks when she it there, I find it very unlikely that anyone there would suddenly spill the beans on who she has been cheating with. Any guy that is there that IS cheating with her is not going to tell me. Any guy that is married is probably not going to want to get involved, and I was there for 6 months and no-one told me she'd been shagging the whole building, so either she wasn't, or no one wanted to stick their neck out to tell me.
> 
> Who is looking after my child? She is a government employee and an "essential worker" by the UK government's definition so apart from the few major lockdowns, she has been in the office the whole of the pandemic. I now work in tech and so I've been working from home since March 2020. Our kid is in nursery during the day and I pick them up and drop them off. So I am looking after our child when she stays late with work, or goes out for work drinks. She knows that I'm not happy with her going out for drinks all the time. Sometimes she has taken the piss, but usually its no more than once a week.
> 
> Are her ex bfs among the co-workers? The guy she was seeing when I met her. He transferred to another office, although that was after I left, so I only have her word for that. The guy that she admitted kissing from the office, he left the office too, although she never told me his name, and I only have her word for that too. As for other "exes" that are among her co-workers, well that all depends if my rumour/gossip theory is true or paranoia. If its true, then most of her co-workers are an ex of some description, if its not, then none of them are.


I was actually more thinking of you just watching and listening to the group dynamics. Wasn't thinking anyone would "out" her there. But, if this would be out of character that she would be suspicious then guess wouldn't work. Would she be ok watching the child while YOU go out? Seems that would only be fair. Why are you the only one who has to care for the child while spouse is out with friends at the bars? That is subject for another time I suppose.

Somehow, you need to collect some information from her workplace. The workplace seems to be the main focus of her life. You and the child are a sideline. Most mothers would be anxious to get away from the workplace and spend time with their child ( and hopefully husband ) When I worked, the married people weren't going out with the crowd after work. We were headed home ASAP to be with out wife and children.

Since you worked there for awhile, surely there is someone who works there or who at least is still in contact with people there who you can spend some time reconnecting with. I have been retired for a very long time, but reconnecting with people on the inside would be no problem.

If you have private investigators in UK, you might just hire one to track what wife is up to. Instead of you playing at being a spy, hire a real investigator. Here, they can quickly find out what is going on and document it.


----------



## ccpowerslave

Where were all these people pleasing women with massive racks when I was a young man?


----------



## Rus47

ccpowerslave said:


> Where were all these people pleasing women with massive racks when I was a young man?


They were at my school


----------



## ccpowerslave

Rus47 said:


> They were at my school


I can tell you they weren’t at the science library. 🤓

This never happened…

What are you studying there?

_The pair distribution function of the Lennard-Jones fluid._

Oh? I love those.

_I bet you do._

You know what else I love? Smart guys studying such… hard… topics off here in the corner where nobody can see!


----------



## Diana7

ccpowerslave said:


> It was a joke.


Sorry the joke didn't come across with typing. Maybe use emojis?


----------



## In Absentia

ccpowerslave said:


> Where were all these people pleasing women with massive racks when I was a young man?


A GG girl at high school?


----------



## ccpowerslave

In Absentia said:


> A GG girl at high school?


I wouldn’t even know what to do with that. My wife wears a D now, when she was younger she wore a C. Not sure what what changed there but I remember the first time she went out with me she was wearing a tight tank top and I was like JACKPOT 🤑💰🤑🤑🤑. She doesn’t wear those anymore


----------



## Jeffsmith35

arodathon said:


> One thing I was thinking of doing was to try and get in contact with someone from her work, from when I worked there and try to get some information. But I would need to find someone who:
> 
> Remembers me from when I worked there, which was years ago, and only for 6 months
> Likes me more than my wife, so they would be honest and not tip her off
> Isn't currently sleeping with her!
> Wasn't cheating on their current wife with her in the past
> Is someone whose name I remember and can find contact details for
> 
> So far I'm drawing a blank on who to contact.


Maybe the spouse of one of her coworkers?


----------



## Rus47

In Absentia said:


> A GG girl at high school?


Confess didn't even know such a gallon sized cup existed. But our HS had a lot who filled a bikini very nicely. My wife-to-be was one of them


----------



## Diana7

arodathon said:


> Just found out (from someone on here) that being a "people pleaser" like a medical/mental diagnosis. My wife is 100% a people pleasure, I often put it down to her being a friendly Northerner (people in the North of England often seem more generally friendly to people and strangers than people in the South). But things about it always bothered me, for example, when we go out for a meal with other couples she INSISTS that we pay for the meal. I've got no problem with paying for the meal, but sometimes the other couple want to pay just to even things up or just because that is the way normal people work, but she absolutely refuses to let them and we have to pay. To the point where it's embarrassing and uncomfortable for everyone present.
> 
> Not sure if that means I was too quick to dismiss the mental illness comment that someone made. Maybe she does have a mental illness, I'm not sure. But if she does, doesn't that mean she needs help, not abandoning, rejection and divorce?


I think that the label mental illness is thrown out far too readily these days.


----------



## Rus47

Diana7 said:


> I think that the label mental illness is thrown out far too readily these days.


Even the professionals (MDs) who do this for a living have trouble correctly diagnosing and treating mental psychosis. And, doubt any of them would dare to diagnose someone they have never met over the internet. I have extended family members the doctors took a few years of intensive effort to correctly diagnose and effectively treat.

Rather like typing the symptoms you have into an internet browser and diagnosing yourself as having some horrible disease.


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## 3Xnocharm

She’s not mental, she’s just a damn cheater. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DudeInProgress

Diana7 said:


> I think that the label mental illness is thrown out far too readily these days.


Along with OPs classifying their spouse as a “covert narc” (often in the title, usually wives about their husbands). 
Maybe it’s just me but I roll my eyes and almost throw up in my mouth a bit every time I see it.


----------



## arodathon

I feel like my initial anger at her lying has subsided. I never confronted her about it, as I know that once I do I can't go back as it will all come pouring out. But I don't have any evidence for my suspicions. 

Everytime she goes out with her friends or works late I worry now. But the worry is less than destroying everything would be.


----------



## HappilyMarried1

Sorry @arodathon you are having these issues and thoughts, but we have said earlier you are right to not confront until you have something definitive one way or the other. With that said it has been said before to find out one way or the other once and for all. Hire a PI, place a VAR and a GPS in car and I am sure you would have answers in two weeks. I would do something like this instead of continuining to torture yourself.


----------



## Evinrude58

About the trickle truth…..
It only keeps trickling further as you discover more and more. The more you discover, the greater the trickle. Because they aren’t telling you much of anything, unless they know they’re caught red handed.

your wife has not kissed 5 guys and not has sex with any of them.
What you are doing is sticking your head in the sand and wishing your wife was faithful when you know and she’s even told you she’s not.
5 different guys? She’s a serial cheater by definition. This isn’t fixable. It won’t stop.
You’re in the UK I believe. I can see why you don’t want to divorce. Just don’t expect your wife to be something she isn’t. She’s a cheater. If I were you I’d work on building a new life without her and eventually try to make it reality.


----------



## SunCMars

arodathon said:


> Just found out (from someone on here) that being a "people pleaser" like a medical/mental diagnosis. My wife is 100% a people pleasure, I often put it down to her being a friendly Northerner (people in the North of England often seem more generally friendly to people and strangers than people in the South). But things about it always bothered me, for example, when we go out for a meal with other couples *she INSISTS that we pay for the meal.* I've got no problem with paying for the meal, but sometimes the other couple want to pay just to even things up or just because that is the way normal people work, but she absolutely refuses to let them and we have to pay. To the point where it's embarrassing and uncomfortable for everyone present.
> 
> Not sure if that means I was too quick to dismiss the mental illness comment that someone made. Maybe she does have a mental illness, I'm not sure. But if she does, doesn't that mean she needs help, not abandoning, rejection and divorce?


In this instance, mental illness?
That's a stretch.

It could mean that she is insecure and compensates by _buying_ other's love.
Gift's show love.

Might be a bit of not ever wanting to feel indebted to others.

*I do know that this IS a cultural thing for some people. *
I have experienced/witnessed this myself.

I do know that this can be a dominance trait. Showing a superior status by paying.
Never accepting generosity from one's presumed lessers'. 
That social class superiority acting out.

I'll let you choose the reason(s) behind her thinking.


_Are Dee-_


----------



## arodathon

HappilyMarried1 said:


> Sorry @arodathon you are having these issues and thoughts, but we have said earlier you are right to not confront until you have something definitive one way or the other. With that said it has been said before to find out one way or the other once and for all. Hire a PI, place a VAR and a GPS in car and I am sure you would have answers in two weeks. I would do something like this instead of continuining to torture yourself.


Neither of us drive a car (that is possible in the UK), so a VAR or GPS wouldn't work. As for a PI, I guess that's possible in the UK, I've never heard of anyone hiring one, it seems like something from a US TV show. Also, not sure what the PI will find if she is cheating with guys at work, at work. Also it won't tell me about anything historically in the past that happened.


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## arodathon

SunCMars said:


> In this instance, mental illness?
> That's a stretch.
> 
> It could mean that she is insecure and compensates by _buying_ other's love.
> Gift's show love.
> 
> Might be a bit of not ever wanting to feel indebted to others.
> 
> *I do know that this IS a cultural thing for some people. *
> I have experienced/witnessed this myself.
> 
> I do know that this can be a dominance trait. Showing a superior status by paying.
> Never accepting generosity from one's presumed lessers'.
> That social class superiority acting out.
> 
> I'll let you choose the reason(s) behind her thinking.
> 
> 
> _Are Dee-_


Her mum has a issue about appearing more affluent than she is. So yeah, maybe it's that.


----------



## arodathon

Evinrude58 said:


> About the trickle truth…..
> It only keeps trickling further as you discover more and more. The more you discover, the greater the trickle. Because they aren’t telling you much of anything, unless they know they’re caught red handed.
> 
> your wife has not kissed 5 guys and not has sex with any of them.
> What you are doing is sticking your head in the sand and wishing your wife was faithful when you know and she’s even told you she’s not.
> 5 different guys? She’s a serial cheater by definition. This isn’t fixable. It won’t stop.
> You’re in the UK I believe. I can see why you don’t want to divorce. Just don’t expect your wife to be something she isn’t. She’s a cheater. If I were you I’d work on building a new life without her and eventually try to make it reality.


Maybe it's trickle truthing, I don't know. But maybe she was telling me the truth and she only kissed those 5 guys. I know that was wrong and it hurt me, but we dealt with that at the time. Sure, if she did more than kissed them, then she is lying, and seems like she could be lying about a lot of things, and there could very well have been more than 5 guys. But I don't know that. 

It feels like all or nothing, either she was honest about kissing them, and was sorry and we moved past it.
OR
She's a liar and she's cheated with A LOT more guys than 5, including likely a lot of guys at her work, and who knows who else.

I feel like it's one or the other, it can't really be anything in the middle. And I'm having trouble seeing everything as a lie, maybe I still have rose tinted glasses, I don't know.

But also, having read through some posts on this forum, people seems to jump to "she's cheating on you" as the answer to almost every situation, some that seem clearly just a couple going through a difficult time. That makes me think that I should be careful just blindly accepting the conclusions of the people on this group. To be honest it leaves me still not sure where I stand.


----------



## marko polo

arodathon said:


> Maybe it's trickle truthing, I don't know. But maybe she was telling me the truth and she only kissed those 5 guys. I know that was wrong and it hurt me, but we dealt with that at the time. Sure, if she did more than kissed them, then she is lying, and seems like she could be lying about a lot of things, and there could very well have been more than 5 guys. But I don't know that.
> 
> It feels like all or nothing, either she was honest about kissing them, and was sorry and we moved past it.
> OR
> She's a liar and she's cheated with A LOT more guys than 5, including likely a lot of guys at her work, and who knows who else.
> 
> I feel like it's one or the other, it can't really be anything in the middle. And I'm having trouble seeing everything as a lie, maybe I still have rose tinted glasses, I don't know.
> 
> But also, having read through some posts on this forum, people seems to jump to "she's cheating on you" as the answer to almost every situation, some that seem clearly just a couple going through a difficult time. That makes me think that I should be careful just blindly accepting the conclusions of the people on this group. To be honest it leaves me still not sure where I stand.


You should really trust your gut/intuition. It will never lie to you like a wayward spouse.

Your wife has a history of cheating and lying. You watched her do it to a previous boyfriend.

There is only one reason someone like your wife offers a confession. She is at risk for exposure and wants to minimize and do damage control.

Where you stand - nowhere. You will remain in limbo.

_"When we met, she was living with her boyfriend, but also seeing a guy at the office behind her boyfriends back. But she told me that her boyfeiend was really controlling and she wanted to leave him but didn't know how, and going with the guy in the office was just a way of having some control over her life and she had ended things with him and he hadn't taken it very well."_

Can you recognize your role in the above situation that you first posted on this issue? You are the boyfriend she is living with. She has told her lover(s) you are _controlling_. Going with another guy(s) behind your back is just a way for her to have some control over her life. 

She knows she has you over a barrel and that you will not leave without cause, if you will leave at all. She knows this because she has suffered no consequences from your end. She is free to come and go as she pleases with whomever she wants knowing you will accept whatever lie she tells you.

Your wife doesn't respect or love you anymore than any of your predecessors. You have a child together. Would get a paternity test completed if I were you. Paternity fraud is not uncommon.

Your wife has a clear pattern of behavior. You have seen it yourself before you became involved with her. If you think you are different or "special" you are in for a very rude surprise down the road.

Best of luck whatever you choose to do.


----------



## arodathon

marko polo said:


> You should really trust your gut/intuition. It will never lie to you like a wayward spouse.
> 
> Your wife has a history of cheating and lying. You watched her do it to a previous boyfriend.
> 
> There is only one reason someone like your wife offers a confession. She is at risk for exposure and wants to minimize and do damage control.
> 
> Where you stand - nowhere. You will remain in limbo.
> 
> _"When we met, she was living with her boyfriend, but also seeing a guy at the office behind her boyfriends back. But she told me that her boyfeiend was really controlling and she wanted to leave him but didn't know how, and going with the guy in the office was just a way of having some control over her life and she had ended things with him and he hadn't taken it very well."_
> 
> Can you recognize your role in the above situation that you first posted on this issue? You are the boyfriend she is living with. She has told her lover(s) you are _controlling_. Going with another guy(s) behind your back is just a way for her to have some control over her life.
> 
> She knows she has you over a barrel and that you will not leave without cause, if you will leave at all. She knows this because she has suffered no consequences from your end. She is free to come and go as she pleases with whomever she wants knowing you will accept whatever lie she tells you.
> 
> Your wife doesn't respect or love you anymore than any of your predecessors. You have a child together. Would get a paternity test completed if I were you. Paternity fraud is not uncommon.
> 
> Your wife has a clear pattern of behavior. You have seen it yourself before you became involved with her. If you think you are different or "special" you are in for a very rude surprise down the road.
> 
> Best of luck whatever you choose to do.


Part of the problem is that going down that road makes me question everything, and it would mean she had cheated on me with A LOT of guys, if I start assuming that every opportunity for her to cheat was a time she did cheat. Like I said it means a lot of guys at her work, guys I knew at one point. It means her friends knew about it and didn't tell me. 

What about friends of mine that I've seen checking her out?

Her and my dad have always laughed and joked and I could tell her fancied her. But I'd always taken it as she was just being friendly because she has to, and he was being inappropriate, because he is inappropriate. I know that he texts her, which I guess I don't have a problem with, but I've always thought was a bit weird. I might have thought he would never do that, but he cheated on my mum with someone she knows, so I wouldn't put anything past him.

You see, this is the problem, this is where my mind goes. But I can't reconcile that with the woman I know and love.


----------



## tech-novelist

arodathon said:


> Part of the problem is that going down that road makes me question everything, and it would mean she had cheated on me with A LOT of guys, if I start assuming that every opportunity for her to cheat was a time she did cheat. Like I said it means a lot of guys at her work, guys I knew at one point. It means her friends knew about it and didn't tell me.
> 
> What about friends of mine that I've seen checking her out?
> 
> Her and my dad have always laughed and joked and I could tell her fancied her. But I'd always taken it as she was just being friendly because she has to, and he was being inappropriate, because he is inappropriate. I know that he texts her, which I guess I don't have a problem with, but I've always thought was a bit weird. I might have thought he would never do that, but he cheated on my mum with someone she knows, so I wouldn't put anything past him.
> 
> You see, this is the problem, this is where my mind goes. But I can't reconcile that with the woman I know and love.


Sorry to have to tell you this, but you just _think_ you know her.
It was obvious to me after reading your first post that she is and has been cheating on you, with 99% probability.
If that is true, then you really don't know her, do you?


----------



## dwdj75

arodathon said:


> Part of the problem is that going down that road makes me question everything, and it would mean she had cheated on me with A LOT of guys, if I start assuming that every opportunity for her to cheat was a time she did cheat. Like I said it means a lot of guys at her work, guys I knew at one point. It means her friends knew about it and didn't tell me.
> 
> What about friends of mine that I've seen checking her out?
> 
> Her and my dad have always laughed and joked and I could tell her fancied her. But I'd always taken it as she was just being friendly because she has to, and he was being inappropriate, because he is inappropriate. I know that he texts her, which I guess I don't have a problem with, but I've always thought was a bit weird. I might have thought he would never do that, but he cheated on my mum with someone she knows, so I wouldn't put anything past him.
> 
> You see, this is the problem, this is where my mind goes. But I can't reconcile that with the woman I know and love.


Someone checking out, or trying to hit on your wife is normal. It has happened to my wife, same as many other husband's. 
They aren't married to you.

Now your wife, who is married to you, is flirting, checking out, and actually "kissing" (at the least) another man, sorry, MULTIPLE MEN, that's the issue.

Not only does she not shut it down, she proliferates it.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Evinrude58

Your mind is turning cartwheels in a futile attempt to refuse to accept the obvious:
Your wife is a cheater and has never likely been faithful in any of her relationships. 
If you require a faithful wife to be happy in a relationship, divorce and keep looking.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

arodathon said:


> Part of the problem is that going down that road makes me question everything, and it would mean she had cheated on me with A LOT of guys, if I start assuming that every opportunity for her to cheat was a time she did cheat. Like I said it means a lot of guys at her work, guys I knew at one point. It means her friends knew about it and didn't tell me.
> 
> What about friends of mine that I've seen checking her out?
> 
> Her and my dad have always laughed and joked and I could tell her fancied her. But I'd always taken it as she was just being friendly because she has to, and he was being inappropriate, because he is inappropriate. I know that he texts her, which I guess I don't have a problem with, but I've always thought was a bit weird. I might have thought he would never do that, but he cheated on my mum with someone she knows, so I wouldn't put anything past him.
> 
> You see, this is the problem, this is where my mind goes. But I can't reconcile that with the woman I know and love.


Do you hear yourself? You are concerned that your wife might cheat on you with your own Dad! WTH man, you are either a total paranoid nut job or have a **** for a wife with no moral values or desire to stay monogamous with you. Ask yourself if you think you have a mental disorder creating this paranoia. If the answer is yes, then seek some professional help. If the answer is no, you know what that leaves one other possibility...


----------



## Evinrude58

Holy smokes, your dad texts your wife? 
Dude………
That you can accept that……
Dude….,,


----------



## NorthernGuard

OP, I read where you said you don't have a car so can't use a VAR or GPS tracker. Though obviously more ideal, you don't need a car for this. Hide a couple VARS in your home where she tends to use her phone the most (and go out for a few hours a couple times a week so she lets her guard down and hopefully makes some calls) and you could hide a GPS tracker in her purse when she does go out drinking with "friends".


----------



## marko polo

arodathon said:


> Part of the problem is that going down that road makes me question everything, and it would mean she had cheated on me with A LOT of guys, if I start assuming that every opportunity for her to cheat was a time she did cheat. Like I said it means a lot of guys at her work, guys I knew at one point. It means her friends knew about it and didn't tell me.
> 
> What about friends of mine that I've seen checking her out?
> 
> Her and my dad have always laughed and joked and I could tell her fancied her. But I'd always taken it as she was just being friendly because she has to, and he was being inappropriate, because he is inappropriate. I know that he texts her, which I guess I don't have a problem with, but I've always thought was a bit weird. I might have thought he would never do that, but he cheated on my mum with someone she knows, so I wouldn't put anything past him.
> 
> You see, this is the problem, this is where my mind goes. But I can't reconcile that with the woman I know and love.


The woman you think you know is very different from the woman you are actually with. You have seen her in action with a previous boyfriend.

Correct me if I am wrong or out of line but you seem to be very passive. You also seem to be disrespected in general. This will not help your situation. Your wife's friends are her friends and they will keep her secret. 

Serial cheaters do cheat with a lot of guys. I wouldn't be surprised if your Dad betrayed you with your wife. Maybe you should read the txts that your Dad has been sending your wife. You might learn a horrible truth or you might learn they aren't involved.

The problem is not where your mind goes. Your instincts are telling you something and you are choosing to ignore or afraid to rock the boat and investigate/get an answer. This forum and others like it offer help up to a point. You still have to take action on your end. Nothing will happen for the better until you do something. Trust your instincts.


----------



## arodathon

marko polo said:


> The woman you think you know is very different from the woman you are actually with. You have seen her in action with a previous boyfriend.
> 
> Correct me if I am wrong or out of line but you seem to be very passive. You also seem to be disrespected in general. This will not help your situation. Your wife's friends are her friends and they will keep her secret.
> 
> Serial cheaters do cheat with a lot of guys. I wouldn't be surprised if your Dad betrayed you with your wife. Maybe you should read the txts that your Dad has been sending your wife. You might learn a horrible truth or you might learn they aren't involved.
> 
> The problem is not where your mind goes. Your instincts are telling you something and you are choosing to ignore or afraid to rock the boat and investigate/get an answer. This forum and others like it offer help up to a point. You still have to take action on your end. Nothing will happen for the better until you do something. Trust your instincts.


"You also seem to be disrespected in general." Don't really know what you mean by this.

"Serial cheaters do cheat with a lot of guys." So the fact that I think it's all or nothing, you think that sounds feasible then? Like she might have cheated with A LOT of guys then? Because if I only know about 5 because she was forced into it, then that is surely the minority.

"I wouldn't be surprised if your Dad betrayed you with your wife." What are you basing that on though? I'm not sure if I'm just getting worried about everything now. Although he is pretty untrustworthy. I don't even know how to process that, if it is true. He works in construction and looks pretty disheveled a lot of the time. There are a number of reasons why, if that happened, it would be soul crushing.


----------



## marko polo

arodathon said:


> "You also seem to be disrespected in general." Don't really know what you mean by this.
> 
> "Serial cheaters do cheat with a lot of guys." So the fact that I think it's all or nothing, you think that sounds feasible then? Like she might have cheated with A LOT of guys then? Because if I only know about 5 because she was forced into it, then that is surely the minority.
> 
> "I wouldn't be surprised if your Dad betrayed you with your wife." What are you basing that on though? I'm not sure if I'm just getting worried about everything now. Although he is pretty untrustworthy. I don't even know how to process that, if it is true. He works in construction and looks pretty disheveled a lot of the time. There are a number of reasons why, if that happened, it would be soul crushing.



Few are forced into it. That may be what your wife has told you. Your wife seems quite flexible where the truth is concerned. You my friend don't directly question anything she tells you so the saga continues.

I have offered you what insight I can as have many others. If you cannot see the forest through the trees or simply are unwilling to, you will remain in your present situation.

All the best.


----------



## dwdj75

arodathon said:


> Like she might have cheated with A LOT of guys then? Because if I only know about 5 because she was forced into it, then that is surely the minority.


Okay, your honest opinion ... to you, how many do you consider "A LOT"? How many is your limit.
What's the number to make you realize you can't deal with this anymore ?
Imagine your child going through this. What would be your advice to them ?
I'm not trying to tear you down, I want you to build yourself esteem up !


----------



## dwdj75

Also to add on, if all of these crazy, unrealistic scenarios are going through your head. Then I think your conscience is really trying to tell you something. It's your job to figure out what.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

arodathon said:


> "You also seem to be disrespected in general." Don't really know what you mean by this.
> 
> "Serial cheaters do cheat with a lot of guys." So the fact that I think it's all or nothing, you think that sounds feasible then? Like she might have cheated with A LOT of guys then? Because if I only know about 5 because she was forced into it, then that is surely the minority.
> 
> "I wouldn't be surprised if your Dad betrayed you with your wife." What are you basing that on though? I'm not sure if I'm just getting worried about everything now. Although he is pretty untrustworthy. I don't even know how to process that, if it is true. He works in construction and looks pretty disheveled a lot of the time. There are a number of reasons why, if that happened, it would be soul crushing.


Your wife has cheated, she admits to 5 men. Does it really matter if it is 1 more or 100 more? It is one thing the be flexible about how many sexual partners she had prior to being married to you, but that ends once married, no? 

The basis for the Dad comment is due to what you said about them texting and him being inappropriate. Does he look more disheveled than the homeless guy she befriended? Or the homeless guy she may or may not have banged?

Your wife is a proven cheating *****, the degree of that seems irrelevant to me. You just need to decide if you can live with this fact or not. I bet I know what you will decide, sadly.


----------



## arodathon

dwdj75 said:


> Okay, your honest opinion ... to you, how many do you consider "A LOT"? How many is your limit.
> What's the number to make you realize you can't deal with this anymore ?
> Imagine your child going through this. What would be your advice to them ?
> I'm not trying to tear you down, I want you to build yourself esteem up !


It's not about how many is my limit.

If she was being honest, and se onyl kissed those 5 guys, then I know it's still cheating, but there are levels of cheating, and I have already dealt with that and gone through that pain. I know a lot of you don't agree, but I don't know the exact context of the kiss, and I was prepared to give her the benefit of the doubt. That is Scenario 1. She has been honest with me about it, and we have moved past it.

Scenario 2 is that she was lying to me about those 5 guys, and she did more than kiss them. If that is true then A LOT comes into play because I have to start questioning EVERYTHING.

Why would she admit to kissing them if she did more? Was she forced into it? What percentage of guys would force her to admit it? If 5 forced her to admit it, then A LOT more wouldn't have.
It means she was likely lying about how many guys from her office she'd been with, at least before we were together. Judging by the rumours and gossip she was saying about other women, it's at least around 30 guys in her office. Has that carried on while we have been together?
How many guys have joined her office since we met? How many of them have hit on her? How many of them could she have cheated with?
One of the guys she "kissed" was a guy she met online, how many other guys has she met up with online? How many times she has "worked late" has she been cheating with one of them?
How many times when she has gone out with her friends has she cheated?

If everyone one of those concerns are actually valid, if everytime I worry that she might have cheated, she HAS cheated... then we are talking about HUNDREDS of different men. And I can't really wrap my mind around that. 

How many is my limit. Just one, if it full sex. But I don't think it can be just one. It is either zero, or hundreds.... and both those options are difficult for me to believe at the moment.


----------



## arodathon

BigDaddyNY said:


> Your wife has cheated, she admits to 5 men. Does it really matter if it is 1 more or 100 more? It is one thing the be flexible about how many sexual partners she had prior to being married to you, but that ends once married, no?
> 
> The basis for the Dad comment is due to what you said about them texting and him being inappropriate. Does he look more disheveled than the homeless guy she befriended? Or the homeless guy she may or may not have banged?
> 
> Your wife is a proven cheating ***, the degree of that seems irrelevant to me. You just need to decide if you can live with this fact or not. I bet I know what you will decide, sadly.


_"The basis for the Dad comment is due to what you said about them texting and him being inappropriate. Does he look more disheveled than the homeless guy she befriended? Or the homeless guy she may or may not have banged?"_

He does often look like he is homeless even though he isn't. Don't really know what to make of that. I worry I'm connecting dots that aren't there though.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

arodathon said:


> _"The basis for the Dad comment is due to what you said about them texting and him being inappropriate. Does he look more disheveled than the homeless guy she befriended? Or the homeless guy she may or may not have banged?"_
> 
> He does often look like he is homeless even though he isn't. Don't really know what to make of that. I worry I'm connecting dots that aren't there though.


I don't envy the hell you are living in right now. I can't imagine having all these thoughts about my wife.

Here is what it seems you know for sure. She has lied about the number of past partners (if your math is right), she's had an odd relationship with a homeless man, and she knows all the sexual details of affairs in her office, including a woman who banged a homeless guy strangely enough. You know she cheated on a prior BF with someone in her office and she cheated with you while you worked in the same office. You also know she has kissed 5 guys since marrying you. This includes a man she worked with in this same office that seems to be a den of whores. It includes someone she met online, which means there was a considerable lead up to meeting and kissing, not just a sudden impulse. Salt in the wound, is she won’t even tell you who it was in the office. The red flags are numerous.

On an aside, what was the timing of the homeless friend she had and the story about the woman in her office hooking up with a homeless man? I can’t believe that one of those stories wouldn’t cross her mind, or yours, when the other occurred.

You've already forgiven the kissing and, in your mind, you have no irrefutable proof of a physical affair. I think you are crazy to ignore all the circumstantial evidence, but I'm not living your daily life to really know and feel all the details. So, why not just move forward and just be watchful for any NEW signs now that the rose colored glasses are off? You said it has been a few years since the last kissing incident, correct? Has she done anything in the last few years to make you question your trust in her? Is your marriage good otherwise? Good intimacy and sex?

You seem to be set on staying married to her. If you do, then I think you need to have a boundaries discussion with her and you need to keep a close eye on everything. I would tell her that some of the things she has done in the past are weighing on you and you need her help to move beyond them once and for all. You can discuss clear cut boundaries, access to each other’s phones and social media. If you think you can do it diplomatically, I would also ask that she disclose full details of those kisses for the sake of a full, open and honest confession. It is hard to fully forgive something when you don’t know everything you are forgiving. As for body count, I would drop that one for now. Worry about the time while you have been married and more importantly moving forward.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Now for a total mind warp. What if everything is just a fantasy? Maybe there are some affairs going on at the office, but she is exaggerating what actually happened, or making it up out of whole cloth? Maybe she is light on details with those kisses because she made it all up to get your attention. That would also explain why she seemed to confess them out of the blue. Maybe you are wrong about the body count. She didn't sleep with every guy she had a date and did this or that with. All this would still mean she is a liar, but not a cheater. Just throwing a crazy idea out there.


----------



## Anastasia6

You know either your wife is the biggest ho out there or you have an outsized imagination.

I don't know which one but reading this thread makes me wonder if we are casting dispersions in the wrong direction.

This seems like a poly situation for the OP. So he can just put it to rest.


----------



## dwdj75

Anastasia6 said:


> You know either your wife is the biggest ho out there or you have an outsized imagination.
> 
> I don't know which one but reading this thread makes me wonder if we are casting dispersions in the wrong direction.
> 
> This seems like a poly situation for the OP. So he can just put it to rest.


Agreed, polygraph would answer any questions he has. More than likely will give him a parking lot confession.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Anastasia6 said:


> You know either your wife is the biggest ho out there or you have an outsized imagination.
> 
> I don't know which one but reading this thread makes me wonder if we are casting dispersions in the wrong direction.
> 
> This seems like a poly situation for the OP. So he can just put it to rest.


Yeah I agree too. If you can't put the past in the past and this is just eating at you then tell her a polygraph would assuage all your concerns and you would be able to move on if she agreed. The questions would be something like: 

Since the beginning of the relationship, have you ever had sexual intercourse with anyone other than @arodathon ? 
Since the beginning of the relationship, have you ever had sexual contact with anyone other than @arodathon ? 
Have you made arrangements to see another person whom you are attracted to either in person or via any other communication including social media during the period of the relationship?

In the US an infidelity poly will run about $500, not sure about the UK.


----------



## Evinrude58

arodathon said:


> It's not about how many is my limit.
> 
> If she was being honest, and se onyl kissed those 5 guys, then I know it's still cheating, but there are levels of cheating, and I have already dealt with that and gone through that pain. I know a lot of you don't agree, but I don't know the exact context of the kiss, and I was prepared to give her the benefit of the doubt. That is Scenario 1. She has been honest with me about it, and we have moved past it.
> 
> Scenario 2 is that she was lying to me about those 5 guys, and she did more than kiss them. If that is true then A LOT comes into play because I have to start questioning EVERYTHING.
> 
> Why would she admit to kissing them if she did more? Was she forced into it? What percentage of guys would force her to admit it? If 5 forced her to admit it, then A LOT more wouldn't have.
> It means she was likely lying about how many guys from her office she'd been with, at least before we were together. Judging by the rumours and gossip she was saying about other women, it's at least around 30 guys in her office. Has that carried on while we have been together?
> How many guys have joined her office since we met? How many of them have hit on her? How many of them could she have cheated with?
> One of the guys she "kissed" was a guy she met online, how many other guys has she met up with online? How many times she has "worked late" has she been cheating with one of them?
> How many times when she has gone out with her friends has she cheated?
> 
> If everyone one of those concerns are actually valid, if everytime I worry that she might have cheated, she HAS cheated... then we are talking about HUNDREDS of different men. And I can't really wrap my mind around that.
> 
> How many is my limit. Just one, if it full sex. But I don't think it can be just one. It is either zero, or hundreds.... and both those options are difficult for me to believe at the moment.


You can’t possibly believe that your wife is kissing men she met online, and not having sex with her work crushes.
She’s had full on sex. You need to wrap your head around that.
Your wife is not a babe in the woods. She’s the lady shark in 3 feet of water snapping at pretty much anything.


----------



## Gabriel

Kissing 5 men is already betraying you. You have the right to demand a polygraph. If she is telling the truth, she should have nothing to worry about and eagerly be ready to prove her "innocence".


----------



## arodathon

BigDaddyNY said:


> I don't envy the hell you are living in right now. I can't imagine having all these thoughts about my wife.
> 
> Here is what it seems you know for sure. She has lied about the number of past partners (if your math is right), she's had an odd relationship with a homeless man, and she knows all the sexual details of affairs in her office, including a woman who banged a homeless guy strangely enough. You know she cheated on a prior BF with someone in her office and she cheated with you while you worked in the same office. You also know she has kissed 5 guys since marrying you. This includes a man she worked with in this same office that seems to be a den of whores. It includes someone she met online, which means there was a considerable lead up to meeting and kissing, not just a sudden impulse. Salt in the wound, is she won’t even tell you who it was in the office. The red flags are numerous.
> 
> On an aside, what was the timing of the homeless friend she had and the story about the woman in her office hooking up with a homeless man? I can’t believe that one of those stories wouldn’t cross her mind, or yours, when the other occurred.
> 
> You've already forgiven the kissing and, in your mind, you have no irrefutable proof of a physical affair. I think you are crazy to ignore all the circumstantial evidence, but I'm not living your daily life to really know and feel all the details. So, why not just move forward and just be watchful for any NEW signs now that the rose colored glasses are off? You said it has been a few years since the last kissing incident, correct? Has she done anything in the last few years to make you question your trust in her? Is your marriage good otherwise? Good intimacy and sex?
> 
> You seem to be set on staying married to her. If you do, then I think you need to have a boundaries discussion with her and you need to keep a close eye on everything. I would tell her that some of the things she has done in the past are weighing on you and you need her help to move beyond them once and for all. You can discuss clear cut boundaries, access to each other’s phones and social media. If you think you can do it diplomatically, I would also ask that she disclose full details of those kisses for the sake of a full, open and honest confession. It is hard to fully forgive something when you don’t know everything you are forgiving. As for body count, I would drop that one for now. Worry about the time while you have been married and more importantly moving forward.


First, thank you for a responsible and sympathetic reply. It's nice not to be told I'm an idiot for not immediately divorcing my wife the moment she mentions another man's name!

"On an aside, what was the timing of the homeless friend she had and the story about the woman in her office hooking up with a homeless man? I can’t believe that one of those stories wouldn’t cross her mind, or yours, when the other occurred."
Can't remember exactly, but I think a lot of the gossip and rumours were told to me pretty near the beginning of our relationship, and the homeless "friend" was after we had moved flats. So there must have been at least a year in between, maybe 2 years. There were a lot of those gossipy stories, that was probably the weirdest one, but I never connected those 2 pieces of information until a few weeks ago.

"You said it has been a few years since the last kissing incident, correct? Has she done anything in the last few years to make you question your trust in her? Is your marriage good otherwise? Good intimacy and sex?"
Yes, the last time was a few years ago. She hasn't done anything to make me question... if I believe and trust her. But she has worked late, she has gone home without me for weekends and up to a week before, to visit family. She did take our kid, but her mum would have babysat while she went out with friends. She's also been out for drinks with friends and not got back until very late. So, if I don't believe her, then some of those things are cause for concern. We still have sex, but it is less often, but I think that is typical of married couple that have been married a while.

"I think you need to have a boundaries discussion with her and you need to keep a close eye on everything. I would tell her that some of the things she has done in the past are weighing on you and you need her help to move beyond them once and for all. You can discuss clear cut boundaries, access to each other’s phones and social media. If you think you can do it diplomatically, I would also ask that she disclose full details of those kisses for the sake of a full, open and honest confession."
This is good advice, thank you. Not quite sure how I approach that, I'm sure she will say it's come completely out of the blue. But that's my problem, this is good advice.


----------



## arodathon

BigDaddyNY said:


> Now for a total mind warp. What if everything is just a fantasy? Maybe there are some affairs going on at the office, but she is exaggerating what actually happened, or making it up out of whole cloth? Maybe she is light on details with those kisses because she made it all up to get your attention. That would also explain why she seemed to confess them out of the blue. Maybe you are wrong about the body count. She didn't sleep with every guy she had a date and did this or that with. All this would still mean she is a liar, but not a cheater. Just throwing a crazy idea out there.


Ok.... that is a total mind warp.... now I have 3 scenarios to worry about.
Really not sure about this.... not sure if it could be true or not.


----------



## arodathon

Anastasia6 said:


> You know either your wife is the biggest ho out there or you have an outsized imagination.
> 
> I don't know which one but reading this thread makes me wonder if we are casting dispersions in the wrong direction.
> 
> This seems like a poly situation for the OP. So he can just put it to rest.


What do you mean by casting aspertions in the wrong direction? 

I'm not sure about this recommendation about a polygraph that keeps being mentioned. I think this might a lot more feasible in the US than the UK. We don't even call it a polygraph, we call it a lie detector test. I've never heard of anyone ever doing that over here, except on Jerry Springer style shows that we also have in the UK. Anyone in this forum from the UK that has done this?


----------



## arodathon

Anastasia6 said:


> You know either your wife is the biggest ho out there or you have an outsized imagination.
> 
> I don't know which one but reading this thread makes me wonder if we are casting dispersions in the wrong direction.
> 
> This seems like a poly situation for the OP. So he can just put it to rest.


Right, but that's one knock against that scenario isn't it? Seems unlikely I'm married to the "biggest ho out there" right? But it seems like its either one or the other. 0 or 100's. But when wifes cheat, they don't cheat with 100's of guys do they? I just don't know if I've been that deluded for that long.


----------



## arodathon

Evinrude58 said:


> You can’t possibly believe that your wife is kissing men she met online, and not having sex with her work crushes.
> She’s had full on sex. You need to wrap your head around that.
> Your wife is not a babe in the woods. She’s the lady shark in 3 feet of water snapping at pretty much anything.


But kissing men and sex with men are two different things. I know people in this forum lump them all in as "cheating" and I should have immediately divorced her, but there is a difference. And the guilt associated with sex has got to be higher for her than kissing, and therefore is a harder line to cross.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

arodathon said:


> Ok.... that is a total mind warp.... now I have 3 scenarios to worry about.
> Really not sure about this.... not sure if it could be true or not.


I didn't bring that up to mess with you, but your concerns are bordering on the absurd, like that scenario. You are either really overthinking things or your wife is a huge ho like @Anastasia6 said.


They do polygraphs, lie detector, in the UK.



https://liedetectortest.uk/shocking-uk-infidelity-statistics-reviewed-by-polygraph-examiners


----------



## Evinrude58

arodathon said:


> But kissing men and sex with men are two different things. I know people in this forum lump them all in as "cheating" and I should have immediately divorced her, but there is a difference. And the guilt associated with sex has got to be higher for her than kissing, and therefore is a harder line to cross.


Brother, she told you she kissed them. You’ve got to understand that cheaters lie. She didn’t kiss one guy, have a conscience and never do it again. She went back 4 times more — for a kiss??? With 5 different guys??????

She is telling you only a smidgen of what she’s done. She’s a grown woman. Grown women who carry out lies and subterfuge like your wife has for such a long time/— they’re not kissing.

Ignoring the obvious doesn’t make the problem go away.
I know you’re hurting.
Pretending you believe her fairy tales isn’t going to magically conjure up a faithful wife.
A wife who is loyal doesn’t kiss 5 different guys.
I don’t even advise a polygraph. What you KNOW is more than enough to cement in a mind that is capable of seeing reality that your wife isn’t marriage material.
I’m very sorry.


----------



## arodathon

BigDaddyNY said:


> I didn't bring that up to mess with you, but your concerns are bordering on the absurd, like that scenario. You are either really overthinking things or your wife is a huge ho like @Anastasia6 said.
> 
> 
> They do polygraphs, lie detector, in the UK.
> 
> 
> 
> https://liedetectortest.uk/shocking-uk-infidelity-statistics-reviewed-by-polygraph-examiners


You think my concerns are absurd? Or the things I'm concerned about are absurd?

So either:

I'm over thinking things
My wife is a huge ho (I don't really like that term, but I get your point)

Given what I've said, which do you think it is? I almost feel like I'm too close to the situation to make have an impartial opinion.

As for the lie detector tests, I'll look into it, but just introducing it out of the blue will really seem super odd and may mess a lot of things up between us. And so, if I'm wrong, it will likely do more harm than good.


----------



## arodathon

Evinrude58 said:


> Brother, she told you she kissed them. You’ve got to understand that cheaters lie. She didn’t kiss one guy, have a conscience and never do it again. She went back 4 times more — for a kiss??? With 5 different guys??????
> 
> She is telling you only a smidgen of what she’s done. She’s a grown woman. Grown women who carry out lies and subterfuge like your wife has for such a long time/— they’re not kissing.
> 
> Ignoring the obvious doesn’t make the problem go away.
> I know you’re hurting.
> Pretending you believe her fairy tales isn’t going to magically conjure up a faithful wife.
> A wife who is loyal doesn’t kiss 5 different guys.
> I don’t even advise a polygraph. What you KNOW is more than enough to cement in a mind that is capable of seeing reality that your wife isn’t marriage material.
> I’m very sorry.


You seem to agree that it can't be the case that she's only cheated once or twice, if she's cheated, then she has cheated A LOT!

If you are right, does the amount she would have cheated seem plausible? Do people cheat that much? I was sort of freaked out by how many guys she might have been with before we got together, but that would be nothing compared to how many she would have been with during our marriage. 

Obviously people cheat, but is the stuff I've mention common for cheaters? Or is this just paranoid worries where I see her cheating with every guy she's met because I've gotten a shock?


----------



## Lostinthought61

arodathon said:


> What do you mean by casting aspertions in the wrong direction?
> 
> I'm not sure about this recommendation about a polygraph that keeps being mentioned. I think this might a lot more feasible in the US than the UK. We don't even call it a polygraph, we call it a lie detector test. I've never heard of anyone ever doing that over here, except on Jerry Springer style shows that we also have in the UK. Anyone in this forum from the UK that has done this?


No offense but you arguments are all directed in a fashion to keep yourself in the dark....look none of us are married to your wife you are, you can either believe the snow job she is giving you or not, but why attack us when your opponent is in bed next to you lying to your face.


----------



## Lostinthought61

arodathon said:


> But kissing men and sex with men are two different things. I know people in this forum lump them all in as "cheating" and I should have immediately divorced her, but there is a difference. And the guilt associated with sex has got to be higher for her than kissing, and therefore is a harder line to cross.


Once again you are full of crap....there is no degree to cheating you are or you are not...it's like saying she a little pregnant


----------



## arodathon

Lostinthought61 said:


> Once again you are full of crap....there is no degree to cheating you are or you are not...it's like saying she a little pregnant


Of course there is a degree.


Talking to a man without your husband present
Exchanging innocent texts with a man
Being slightly flirty with a man
Exchanging multiple slightly flirty messages with a man
Allowing a man to put his hand on your leg or putting your hand on his
Hugging another man
Peak on the cheek with another man
Kiss on the lips with another man
Passionate kissing with another man
Allowing a man to grope you while kissing
Touching his D
Hand job
Blow job
Full sex

That is a sliding scale of things that a woman could do that some men might consider to be cheating. Different people would consider "cheating" to fall at different places on that list. And different men would consider things on that list to be bad, but something you could recover from, and other things to be divorce worthy.

You clearly have a strong and well defined line in your own head.... Good for you. But your line will be different to other men's line, and it's clearly different to my line.

Everyone is different. Chill out.


----------



## HappilyMarried1

arodathon said:


> Of course there is a degree.
> 
> 
> Talking to a man without your husband present
> Exchanging innocent texts with a man
> Being slightly flirty with a man
> Exchanging multiple slightly flirty messages with a man
> Allowing a man to put his hand on your leg or putting your hand on his
> Hugging another man
> Peak on the cheek with another man
> Kiss on the lips with another man
> Passionate kissing with another man


Well according to this scale of your own writing you list 14 steps of cheating according to you. Based on what you have told us then your wife has committed 9 of your 14 steps not once, not twice, but 5 times with 5 different guys and maybe more, but you are afraid to ask or confront. This post will now make 310 post. What are you wanting to happen keep on wondering the rest of your life or have a heart to heart with your wife and tell her that you believe she has not been truthful with you and you have to have everything out. You ask her to take a polygraph and answer your questions if she tells the truth and there is nothing else than what she has told you that you will apologize to her and do you best to make it up to her your lack of trust, but you must have closure one way or the other.

If you won't or don't want to do this I really don't know what you are asking or wanting from anyone on here. This is really all you can do or just try and push these thoughts out of your head and go on with your life with your wife.


----------



## Evinrude58

arodathon said:


> You seem to agree that it can't be the case that she's only cheated once or twice, if she's cheated, then she has cheated A LOT!
> 
> If you are right, does the amount she would have cheated seem plausible? Do people cheat that much? I was sort of freaked out by how many guys she might have been with before we got together, but that would be nothing compared to how many she would have been with during our marriage.
> 
> Obviously people cheat, but is the stuff I've mention common for cheaters? Or is this just paranoid worries where I see her cheating with every guy she's met because I've gotten a shock?


Your wife is uncommon. She’s TOLD you she kissed 5 different guys. In all the cases I’ve ever heard of involving multiple coworkers and online dating guys—— what they told was a drop in the bucket.
Most cheating women don’t have to go online for men. So based on what you’ve said, yes, o think your wife is likely a sex addict or attention ***** and she is spreading her legs for lots of guys.
She’s just not gonna tell you— “yeah Dave, I’ve been banging guys right and left for years.”

As I said, she’s admitted to kissing 5 different guys. That’s unusual.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Evinrude58 said:


> Your wife is uncommon. She’s TOLD you she kissed 5 different guys. In all the cases I’ve ever heard of involving multiple coworkers and online dating guys—— what they told was a drop in the bucket.
> Most cheating women don’t have to go online for men. So based on what you’ve said, yes, o think your wife is likely a sex addict or attention *** and she is spreading her legs for lots of guys.
> She’s just not gonna tell you— “yeah Dave, I’ve been banging guys right and left for years.”
> 
> As I said, she’s admitted to kissing 5 different guys. That’s unusual.


Yes, 5 is unusual, or I sure hope it is. 

How does the saying go? Once is a mistake, twice is a pattern, three times is a habit. Up to 5 here.


----------



## MattMatt

arodathon said:


> But kissing men and sex with men are two different things. I know people in this forum lump them all in as "cheating" and I should have immediately divorced her, but there is a difference. And the guilt associated with sex has got to be higher for her than kissing, and therefore is a harder line to cross.


It's a bit like someone going to a restaurant and afterwards saying: "But all I did was sit there at one of the tables with other people for two hours. They were eating. But I promise you, I didn't actually eat anything! Though I did lick a spoon."


----------



## Rus47

If OPs wife is as sexually active with as many men as it seems, she ought to be very well known on FB, in town, at work, everywhere. He is the only one in the dark. Wouldn't some time in a local tavern or on SM quickly reveal truth? Men usually readily share their knowledge of “easy” women. It is common knowledge.

And if she is that active how has she avoided STI?


----------



## sideways

You don't really want to know what anyone has to say because in your mind you're the smartest person in the room. In reality, as others have pointed out, you're living in darkness and you don't really want to know the truth because you're too afraid to truly confront it.


----------



## arodathon

HappilyMarried1 said:


> Well according to this scale of your own writing you list 14 steps of cheating according to you. Based on what you have told us then your wife has committed 9 of your 14 steps not once, not twice, but 5 times with 5 different guys and maybe more, but you are afraid to ask or confront. This post will now make 310 post. What are you wanting to happen keep on wondering the rest of your life or have a heart to heart with your wife and tell her that you believe she has not been truthful with you and you have to have everything out. You ask her to take a polygraph and answer your questions if she tells the truth and there is nothing else than what she has told you that you will apologize to her and do you best to make it up to her your lack of trust, but you must have closure one way or the other.
> 
> If you won't or don't want to do this I really don't know what you are asking or wanting from anyone on here. This is really all you can do or just try and push these thoughts out of your head and go on with your life with your wife.


I posted here because I felt like I couldn't trust myself and maybe I was being paranoid. I'm had some good and reasonable advice from some people on here, but I've also had some nonsense thrown at me, and some extreme views, which judging by other posts on here is pretty common for this forum.

You all don't owe me anything, and mostly since my first couple of posts, I've just been answering questions and clarifying and responding. 

I don't know what I'm going to do. Thank you to those that having given rational advice, but others have not really made my position any clearer in my head, really.


----------



## arodathon

Evinrude58 said:


> Your wife is uncommon. She’s TOLD you she kissed 5 different guys. In all the cases I’ve ever heard of involving multiple coworkers and online dating guys—— what they told was a drop in the bucket.
> Most cheating women don’t have to go online for men. So based on what you’ve said, yes, o think your wife is likely a sex addict or attention *** and she is spreading her legs for lots of guys.
> She’s just not gonna tell you— “yeah Dave, I’ve been banging guys right and left for years.”
> 
> As I said, she’s admitted to kissing 5 different guys. That’s unusual.


So if she has cheated then the way she has cheated is uncommon, but of this uncommon type, the number of guys she might have cheated with is common? Not being difficult, genuinely trying to get a handle on it.


----------



## arodathon

Rus47 said:


> If OPs wife is as sexually active with as many men as it seems, she ought to be very well known on FB, in town, at work, everywhere. He is the only one in the dark. Wouldn't some time in a local tavern or on SM quickly reveal truth? Men usually readily share their knowledge of “easy” women. It is common knowledge.
> 
> And if she is that active how has she avoided STI?


Well, she works in London. If she's shagged so many guys that she's well known throughout the whole of London....well.... that seems unlikely.

We use condoms in sex together, always have done, except when trying for a kid. How has she avoided an STI? Maybe she used condoms with them too. Or I guess it's possible she has one and I don't know about it. Or she isn't actually cheating. I don't know.


----------



## Rus47

arodathon said:


> Well, she works in London. If she's shagged so many guys that she's well known throughout the whole of London....well.... that seems unlikely.


Well of course not known throughout a whole city. But you know the pubs she frequents? Do you have access to social media she is active on? If she is as active as it seems, would think some of the word would leaked into the online gossip. There would be tracks in her text, email, internet presence.


----------



## arodathon

Rus47 said:


> Well of course not known throughout a whole city. But you know the pubs she frequents? Do you have access to social media she is active on? If she is as active as it seems, would think some of the word would leaked into the online gossip. There would be tracks in her text, email, internet presence.


I don't have access to her texts or email, or phone. She isn't on Twitter and she doesn't have work people on her Facebook friends list.

The fact that the whole of the town isn't talking about shagging my wife, should I take that as a good sign?


----------



## Rus47

arodathon said:


> I don't have access to her texts or email, or phone. She isn't on Twitter and she doesn't have work people on her Facebook friends list.
> 
> The fact that the whole of the town isn't talking about shagging my wife, should I take that as a good sign?


Well London is huge, so no. I thought maybe you lived in a neighborhood or smaller town.

Sounds like you dont have access to anything to confirm anything. So guess you back to just guessing. Which really rather pointless. If she as active as you suspect, eventually you will catch her in the act when you come home unexpectedly. Just relax and wait until then when you wont need to guess anymore.


----------



## Anastasia6

arodathon said:


> I posted here because I felt like I couldn't trust myself and maybe I was being paranoid. I'm had some good and reasonable advice from some people on here, but I've also had some nonsense thrown at me, and some extreme views, which judging by other posts on here is pretty common for this forum.
> 
> You all don't owe me anything, and mostly since my first couple of posts, I've just been answering questions and clarifying and responding.
> 
> I don't know what I'm going to do. Thank you to those that having given rational advice, but others have not really made my position any clearer in my head, really.


You do seem kind of paranoid. But there certainly are serial cheaters and serial liars and many times they are both one in the same.

You aren't going to find answers here. We have a collection of betrayed spouses and if you are a hammer then everthing looks like a nail..... so every betrayed spouse is going to see some red flags. And of course there are red flags.

My recommendation is find a polygrapher. London should have several choices. Call them ask them their procedure and price. Most have a set number of questions like 3. Then you need to carefully think of the questions that are important to you. MAKE sure they don't have vague meanings. or are a trap.

Have you ever thought about sex with another man.... well first offf that doesn't limit it to just your relationship. Secondly that would be a trap because if she reads a romance novel or watches a movie and thinks of sex with superman she'd have to answer yes and then you would be pissed. So as tempting as those questions are be realistic. They will need to be yes or no answers.

1. Of the 5 men you have admitted to kissing to me, did you do anything sexual beyond kissing.
2. Have you done anything of a sexual nature with anyone other than me, since we have been married with the exception of the 5 already admitted kissings?
3. Have you done anything of a sexual nature with anyone other than me in the last 2 years?

So once you have that set then you sit down and have a conversation with her. Say I have been having these thoughts about you kissing other men which isn't acceptable but it's made my mind wonder. I'd like you to unlock your phone and let me look at it right now. If she asks why you say, well I don't think we have secrets but it will put my mind at ease. Since I've been thinking about the breaking of our vows it has me on edge and I feel like I should take a look for myself.

Either way. She let's you look and you find nothing or she doesn't let you look and that tells you something too (doesn't mean she's cheating, but it does mean she values her privacy over your relationship).

Then you say I'd like to put all this to rest so I've scheduled a polygraph. Let her know what the questions are going to be and see what she says.
3.


----------



## Davit Bek

I'm really sorry you're going through this and I hope you're able use the advice here constructively. 

You still have the same mindset as a few years ago which got you into this situation. The reason that kissing is enough betrayal for many is that you'll never really know how far it has gone after that. Boundaries are red lines for people to stay a mile away from, not cross with one foot and quickly hop back. Even with a lie detector test, you can't be completely certain and also you can't have trust that it won't happen again, and maybe this time it will go further than kissing. In addition to that, it is fairly unlikely for it to have ended just with a kiss. It is not impossible. But you just will never know. And it's that distrust, that pit in the stomach, that paranoia that makes a marriage not worth it. Without trust there is no sense of peace. 

If you don't deal with this situation objectively, and with courage, you will be in worse situation a few years from now. I truly wish you the best.


----------



## Beach123

If you continue to make excuses for her behavior - you will stay in a marriage with no trust abd a wife that continues to cheat and disrespect you.
Why would you want to stay in a marriage like that?


----------



## arodathon

I think I have come round to the inevitability that she has cheeated on me (full cheating, not just a kiss).

Even ignoring what I don't know, just from what I do know. I've been thinking about it more and I'm amazed at the things I just ignored at the time.

So when I met her, she was living with her boyfriend and seeing another guy, from work, behind his back. He was a ugly, creepy, dweeby guy that worked in the mail room, AND he was virgin, he lost his virginity to her!

That is how low her bar was/is. He was a virgin, and shy, so it's not like he would have been hitting on her hard and charming her. He probably showed her a bit of shy attention, like being embarrased to talk to her, or she might have caught him staring at her. And from that small bit of attention, she immediately starts shagging him, even though she already had a boyfriend.

If that's how easy paying her attention gets sex from her, then who am I kidding? I started at the office on the Monday and I slept with her for the first time that Friday! Even though she still had a boyfriend, and her 2nd boyfrined, who she had apprently dumped, was still walking around the office giving me the evil eye.

If shy attention from a virgin got sex from her then surely older guys in the office that are actually hitting on her are going to have no problem.

It explains why, despite being easily the hottest woman in the office, I didn't really see any guys hitting on her or trying to start a relationship with her, except for the virgin. Because they had all already had her, and they knew everyone else had too, and so a relationship with her was a bad idea.

Then stupid me comes along, not knowing any of that and starts dating her. Still don't know why no one thought to tell me!

Sure all of that was before our relationship, but all of that was while she had a boyfriend. And the bar to her cheating was SO low, that it's tough not to draw the conclusion that any guy that showed her attention would have found it easy to sleep with her.

I'm sure a bunch of you are screaming at me that you told me all this, but I really didn't want to believe it, and I think I need to come to it in my own time.

As for what I'm going to do and how I'm going to approach this, I don't know. I need time to think.

I appreciate your help and advice.


----------



## Evinrude58

Good luck 
Sorry for the trouble. The heart is definitely the most painful place to be stabbed. We all know how badly it hurts. We also hate to see a man get it hacked away at many times.


----------



## Rus47

arodathon said:


> If that's how easy paying her attention gets sex from her, then who am I kidding? I started at the office on the Monday and I slept with her for the first time that Friday! Even though she still had a boyfriend, and her 2nd boyfrined, who she had apprently dumped, was still walking around the office giving me the evil eye.


So the Friday after you arrive at her workplace, she is doing you AND 2 BFs? So she is into multiple men at the same time. Pretty high drive. Big boobs reeled you ( and all of the rest ) in. Maybe she wanted to be sure to properly break in every new guy at work. The dweeb in the mail room was just one she hadn't gotten around to.

Other than you thinking about things some more and reading reactions here, what has actually changed? Let's assume that she is as active as you now believe. She continues to pay you plenty of attention, so you are still in the rotation. As long as you can avoid an STD ( not sure how you manage than for a certainty, but it must be possible as active as most are these days ), you might manage to just continue life as it has been. You know where things stand. The alternate is the whole divorce shytstorm, custody battles, asset division, and NO sex.


----------



## SunCMars

arodathon said:


> You seem to agree that it can't be the case that she's only cheated once or twice, if she's cheated, then she has cheated A LOT!
> 
> If you are right, does the amount she would have cheated seem plausible? Do people cheat that much? I was sort of freaked out by how many guys she might have been with before we got together, but that would be nothing compared to how many she would have been with during our marriage.
> 
> Obviously people cheat, but is the stuff I've mention common for cheaters? Or is this just paranoid worries where I see her cheating with every guy she's met because I've gotten a shock?


You are stuck on numbers.
Her cheating numbers, and her bra size number.

Forget the numbers, one cheating incident is enough.

If you are OK with her kissing other men, then keep her full bra close, and overlook her many lies.

The past is cold water under the bridge.

If you truly care, then look carefully at her present behavior. 

Have her followed, use a VAR, do the detective work to determine if she is still kissing men, or more.

She may slow down as she ages, but quitting cheating comes late in life, when the urge to "O" is less desirable than the comfort of a stable home.


_Mabel-_


----------



## BigDaddyNY

arodathon said:


> I think I have come round to the inevitability that she has cheeated on me (full cheating, not just a kiss).
> 
> Even ignoring what I don't know, just from what I do know. I've been thinking about it more and I'm amazed at the things I just ignored at the time.
> 
> So when I met her, she was living with her boyfriend and seeing another guy, from work, behind his back. He was a ugly, creepy, dweeby guy that worked in the mail room, AND he was virgin, he lost his virginity to her!
> 
> That is how low her bar was/is. He was a virgin, and shy, so it's not like he would have been hitting on her hard and charming her. He probably showed her a bit of shy attention, like being embarrased to talk to her, or she might have caught him staring at her. And from that small bit of attention, she immediately starts shagging him, even though she already had a boyfriend.
> 
> If that's how easy paying her attention gets sex from her, then who am I kidding? I started at the office on the Monday and I slept with her for the first time that Friday! Even though she still had a boyfriend, and her 2nd boyfrined, who she had apprently dumped, was still walking around the office giving me the evil eye.
> 
> If shy attention from a virgin got sex from her then surely older guys in the office that are actually hitting on her are going to have no problem.
> 
> It explains why, despite being easily the hottest woman in the office, I didn't really see any guys hitting on her or trying to start a relationship with her, except for the virgin. Because they had all already had her, and they knew everyone else had too, and so a relationship with her was a bad idea.
> 
> Then stupid me comes along, not knowing any of that and starts dating her. Still don't know why no one thought to tell me!
> 
> Sure all of that was before our relationship, but all of that was while she had a boyfriend. And the bar to her cheating was SO low, that it's tough not to draw the conclusion that any guy that showed her attention would have found it easy to sleep with her.
> 
> I'm sure a bunch of you are screaming at me that you told me all this, but I really didn't want to believe it, and I think I need to come to it in my own time.
> 
> As for what I'm going to do and how I'm going to approach this, I don't know. I need time to think.
> 
> I appreciate your help and advice.


So what are you going to do? I personally would still go the route of telling her you want a polygraph. You have nothing to lose at this point.


----------



## arodathon

Rus47 said:


> So the Friday after you arrive at her workplace, she is doing you AND 2 BFs? So she is into multiple men at the same time. Pretty high drive. Big boobs reeled you ( and all of the rest ) in. Maybe she wanted to be sure to properly break in every new guy at work. The dweeb in the mail room was just one she hadn't gotten around to.
> 
> Other than you thinking about things some more and reading reactions here, what has actually changed? Let's assume that she is as active as you now believe. She continues to pay you plenty of attention, so you are still in the rotation. As long as you can avoid an STD ( not sure how you manage than for a certainty, but it must be possible as active as most are these days ), you might manage to just continue life as it has been. You know where things stand. The alternate is the whole divorce shytstorm, custody battles, asset division, and NO sex.


Well, she told me she had ended things with the office dweeb, and he sure looked annoyed, so I'm guessing she had. I had assumed she meant recently, but before I'd arrived on the scene, but now I'm not sure. But that nit pick aside, yes, she was hooking up with me, while presumably still having sex with her boyfriend. It took a while before we could arrange for her to leave him, and we moved in together.

*"Maybe she wanted to be sure to properly break in every new guy at work. The dweeb in the mail room was just one she hadn't gotten around to."*
I mean, I've got to assume that now, right? Over and above the guys in the office when we met, how many more guys have started at the office since I transferred to a new office 6 months after we met?

It's amazing the range of suggestions I've had on this thread. From "You should have been serving her divroce papers literally the day atfer she told you she kissed a guy", to "well, if you are getting sex, does it matter?"

As for STDs, we use condoms and I will get a test, but I don't think I have anything.

I'm still a bit shell shocked, I sort of can't reconcile the woman I love with what I'm pretty sure to be true. But there are so many things that are hard to argue against. However the thought of divorce and custody battles is pretty horrible too.


----------



## arodathon

SunCMars said:


> You are stuck on numbers.
> Her cheating numbers, and her bra size number.
> 
> Forget the numbers, one cheating incident is enough.
> 
> If you are OK with her kissing other men, then keep her full bra close, and overlook her many lies.
> 
> The past is cold water under the bridge.
> 
> If you truly care, then look carefully at her present behavior.
> 
> Have her followed, use a VAR, do the detective work to determine if she is still kissing men, or more.
> 
> She may slow down as she ages, but quitting cheating comes late in life, when the urge to "O" is less desirable than the comfort of a stable home.
> 
> 
> _Mabel-_


Yes, I am stuck on the numbers, but that is my personality. Part of it is also trying to reconstruct the past, it's like archeology on my own life.


----------



## Marc878

arodathon said:


> I think I have come round to the inevitability that she has cheeated on me (full cheating, not just a kiss).
> 
> Even ignoring what I don't know, just from what I do know. I've been thinking about it more and I'm amazed at the things I just ignored at the time.
> 
> So when I met her, she was living with her boyfriend and seeing another guy, from work, behind his back. He was a ugly, creepy, dweeby guy that worked in the mail room, AND he was virgin, he lost his virginity to her!
> 
> That is how low her bar was/is. He was a virgin, and shy, so it's not like he would have been hitting on her hard and charming her. He probably showed her a bit of shy attention, like being embarrased to talk to her, or she might have caught him staring at her. And from that small bit of attention, she immediately starts shagging him, even though she already had a boyfriend.
> 
> If that's how easy paying her attention gets sex from her, then who am I kidding? I started at the office on the Monday and I slept with her for the first time that Friday! Even though she still had a boyfriend, and her 2nd boyfrined, who she had apprently dumped, was still walking around the office giving me the evil eye.
> 
> If shy attention from a virgin got sex from her then surely older guys in the office that are actually hitting on her are going to have no problem.
> 
> It explains why, despite being easily the hottest woman in the office, I didn't really see any guys hitting on her or trying to start a relationship with her, except for the virgin. Because they had all already had her, and they knew everyone else had too, and so a relationship with her was a bad idea.
> 
> Then stupid me comes along, not knowing any of that and starts dating her. Still don't know why no one thought to tell me!
> 
> Sure all of that was before our relationship, but all of that was while she had a boyfriend. And the bar to her cheating was SO low, that it's tough not to draw the conclusion that any guy that showed her attention would have found it easy to sleep with her.
> 
> I'm sure a bunch of you are screaming at me that you told me all this, but I really didn't want to believe it, and I think I need to come to it in my own time.
> 
> As for what I'm going to do and how I'm going to approach this, I don't know. I need time to think.
> 
> I appreciate your help and advice.


The heart is starting to align with the brain. Normally the betrayed is the last one to know. No one tells you what they know or saw. Most don’t care or want to be the bad guy.


----------



## Marc878

arodathon said:


> Well, she told me she had ended things with the office dweeb, and he sure looked annoyed, so I'm guessing she had. I had assumed she meant recently, but before I'd arrived on the scene, but now I'm not sure. But that nit pick aside, yes, she was hooking up with me, while presumably still having sex with her boyfriend. It took a while before we could arrange for her to leave him, and we moved in together.
> 
> *"Maybe she wanted to be sure to properly break in every new guy at work. The dweeb in the mail room was just one she hadn't gotten around to."*
> I mean, I've got to assume that now, right? Over and above the guys in the office when we met, how many more guys have started at the office since I transferred to a new office 6 months after we met?
> 
> It's amazing the range of suggestions I've had on this thread. From "You should have been serving her divroce papers literally the day atfer she told you she kissed a guy", to "well, if you are getting sex, does it matter?"
> 
> As for STDs, we use condoms and I will get a test, but I don't think I have anything.
> 
> I'm still a bit shell shocked, I sort of can't reconcile the woman I love with what I'm pretty sure to be true. But there are so many things that are hard to argue against. However the thought of divorce and custody battles is pretty horrible too.


If they cheat with you they will cheat on you. 
Most Here have seen or experienced that admitted kissing = sex. Not that uncommon if you read some.
Sorry you’re here but a lot come here with their gut instincts screaming at them but live in denial. 
Denial is a temporary comfort zone. If I don’t know I don’t have to act or make any decisions.
Limbo is a self imposed state.


----------



## SunCMars

Marc878 said:


> If they cheat with you they will cheat on you.


This is obvious yet, rationalized away.

If you continue your relationship with that cheater, it becomes the Devil you know, not one you might discover.
I guess cheaters fear surprises?
And, they likely have no trust in anyone.

Inane, and backward thinking.


----------



## arodathon

I needed to take a break for this forum for a while, as I found to tough to reconcile the advice with my own thoughts and emotions.

I did more digging and found more circumstatial but worrying evidence. Had some archives of our texts to each other back in the early days, and so many of them were her asking when I'd be home or telling me she was working late. And times when I call her and text her when she was at work and she didn't answer.

There was other stuff I'd forgotten too, but I don't want to say, because you will all call me a bloody idiot.

That said, my anger has died down and confronting her just seems like something that will blow everything up. I'm working on our intimacy and trying to feel more connected to her.

For now I feel like I'm going to have to push my hurt and jealousy to one side.

Thanks again for your advice.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

I’m sorry that you don’t want better for yourself. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## arodathon

I'm just being pragmatic.


----------



## gr8ful1

It seems you’re ok with her non-monogamy. Why not tell her that? Perhaps she’ll be truthful with you. In any case, I would HIGHLY suggest very regular STD checking for at least yourself, condoms or not.


----------



## arodathon

I'm not ok with it. But I'm hoping that if things improve, then maybe its something we can just leave in the past.


----------



## Andy1001

arodathon said:


> I'm just being pragmatic.


You’re not being pragmatic your settling. 
If it’s out of fear that you won’t find as hot a woman again then you are being foolish.


----------



## manwithnoname

arodathon said:


> I'm not ok with it. But I'm hoping that if things improve, then maybe its something we can just leave in the past.


Be honest with yourself. Even if things improve, things will not be left in the past because she will continue this behaviour.

And do you honestly think things will improve?


----------



## Galabar01

I'm late to the party here, but it looks like you started the relationship by cheating with her on her boyfriend? Don't you deserve everything you are currently getting?


----------



## arodathon

Yes, she was cheating on her boyfriend at the time with me, and before me, with the mail room guy. But I wanted to make it official with her as soon as possible, for what it's worth. I wasn't the one doing the cheating though. Does that mean I deserve punishment?

I do take the point that I missed a lot of red flags, though.


----------



## Galabar01

arodathon said:


> Yes, she was cheating on her boyfriend at the time with me, and before me, with the mail room guy. But I wanted to make it official with her as soon as possible, for what it's worth. I wasn't the one doing the cheating though. Does that mean I deserve punishment?
> 
> I do take the point that I missed a lot of red flags, though.


Cheating with someone is not "missing red flags." You cheated with her. Why would you expect her to not cheat on you?


----------



## Casual Observer

arodathon said:


> Yes, she was cheating on her boyfriend at the time with me, and before me, with the mail room guy. But I wanted to make it official with her as soon as possible, for what it's worth. I wasn't the one doing the cheating though. Does that mean I deserve punishment?
> 
> I do take the point that I missed a lot of red flags, though.


What goes around, cones around. How would you like to have been in the other guy’s shoes while you were drilling what he thought was exclusive to him? If you KNEW she hadn’t broken up with prior guy, if you KNEW prior guy thought the relationship was exclusive… that doesn’t say much for your character either.


----------



## arodathon

Because I thought it was different with her and me. For me it was love at first sight and I thought it was for her too. Because she'd given me an explanation for why she had cheated, which I believed.


----------



## arodathon

Casual Observer said:


> What goes around, cones around. How would you like to have been in the other guy’s shoes while you were drilling what he thought was exclusive to him? If you KNEW she hadn’t broken up with prior guy, if you KNEW prior guy thought the relationship was exclusive… that doesn’t say much for your character either.


Well it wasn't so cut and dried with her boyfriend at the time. She said he was really kinky and into leather and latex fetish stuff, and she was quite vague about whether he knew about the mail room guy. Looking back maybe that was just to make herself seem less at fault. But she also said, in a roundabout way, that she had done 3somes with the boyfriend and other guys, because that was what he was into. So it seemed unclear what he knew and what he was ok with. But she always said that she only did it to make him happy, so I didn't to ask for details because it seemed like something she didn't want to talk about.


----------



## Galabar01

arodathon said:


> Because I thought it was different with her and me. For me it was love at first sight and I thought it was for her too. Because she'd given me an explanation for why she had cheated, which I believed.


She _and_ you cheated.


----------



## Casual Observer

arodathon said:


> Well it wasn't so cut and dried with her boyfriend at the time. She said he was really kinky and into leather and latex fetish stuff, and she was quite vague about whether he knew about the mail room guy. Looking back maybe that was just to make herself seem less at fault. But she also said, in a roundabout way, that she had done 3somes with the boyfriend and other guys, because that was what he was into. So it seemed unclear what he knew and what he was ok with. But she always said that she only did it to make him happy, so I didn't to ask for details because it seemed like something she didn't want to talk about.


What have you said that changed the fact that you may have even been having sex with someone who was in a relationship? If it could be said that SHE was cheating on her then-boyfriend, then you are part of that. Nothing she’s done should really come as a surprise. You knew what she was capable of. You enabled her.


----------



## Divinely Favored

arodathon said:


> Ok it might be bad, but it would be hard to go back and open the book back up on them for no reason.
> 
> The red flags, well more weird things that didn't make much sense:
> 
> She knew a lot of the gossip in the office and she would tell me some gossip and rumour and stuff and who was sleeping with who and things. But a lot of it didn't make much sense, but I just ignored that feeling. One I remember specifically was she said that this female manager and a male upper manager, who were both married, were hooking up, and one time she went into his office, went under the desk and was giving him a blowjob under the desk, when another manager came in and she had to keep still under the desk until he left. Ok, sexy bit of gossip.... except the woman that she said did this made no sense. She was a middle aged, straight laced, married woman. I could see the male manager doing that, but not the female manager really. It didn't make much sense.
> 
> A lot of the gossip involved this female investigator, who she made out to be really slutty. According to her, she was shagging most of the managers in the office and would go home with guys when they went out drinking after work. She said she that once, after a night out, picked up a homeless man that was begging on the street, took him home, gave him a shower, had sex with him and then sent him on his way. Pretty wild and disgusting stuff. The woman who was going all this stuff was (not meaning to be judgmental, just trying to paint a picture) an ugly, fat, middle aged woman. Not that she couldn't have been really slutty, but I don't think that many men would have wanted to have sex with her, even if she put it on a plate. Also, my wife (my girlfriend at the time) and her, hated each other. Which makes me think, how did she find out this information? Why would she have told anyone this? None of it makes sense.
> 
> Of course the worrying thing, is what if all those stories weren't about those other women, they were actually about stuff she'd done! Which fits with what I was saying about the dweeby guy being the last guy she'd go with in the office because she had actually been with everyone else.
> 
> I really don't want to believe this, because if she did all the things that she attributed to that woman, well that is messed up. But now the rose tinited glasses are off, I'm questioning everything.
> 
> Please feel free to tell me I'm talking nonsense.


Wonder if your wife was talking about herself in 3rd party. If she was girl under the desk. A way to brag and put it in your face so to speak.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

arodathon said:


> Well it wasn't so cut and dried with her boyfriend at the time. She said he was really kinky and into leather and latex fetish stuff, and she was quite vague about whether he knew about the mail room guy. Looking back maybe that was just to make herself seem less at fault. But she also said, in a roundabout way, that she had done 3somes with the boyfriend and other guys, because that was what he was into. So it seemed unclear what he knew and what he was ok with. But she always said that she only did it to make him happy, so I didn't to ask for details because it seemed like something she didn't want to talk about.


It seems like you knew enough about her to fully understand what you were getting into, yet you still hooked up with her. I bet on some level it even thrilled you that she was a sexually active woman. Now you are suffering from buyer's remorse. Other than your questioning of her fidelity are you happy with her?


----------



## Beach123

arodathon said:


> Because I thought it was different with her and me. For me it was love at first sight and I thought it was for her too. Because she'd given me an explanation for why she had cheated, which I believed.


You’ve made a LOT of assumptions and now she’s cheating on you. 
And your reaction is to ignore the fact that she’s been betraying you. AND you want to stay with her?
You know she cheats. That’s what she does!
Why are you being so weak and feel that you don’t deserve better? 
It’s ridiculous to think you can connect with her when she is focused on someone new and shiny and bright! 

Why would you stay when your spouse is purposely mistreating you and has broken the vows?


----------



## Willnotbill

I've read through this entire thread and its quite exhausting. The OP seems to want to do something but doesn't.

My two cents...

This entire thing sounds like a disaster in the making. First, kissing someone is not a mistake. She admits to kissing five men. This is infidelity. Infidelity is not a mistake it's a choice. The "It was just a kiss" is usually an excuse for a lot more happening but I hope not for the OP. It also sounds like the wife goes out with friends a lot. Why doesn't the OP go with her? When people are married its always good to keep friends but to go out to bars and nightclubs (if that's what they are doing) is not something a married person should be doing without their spouse.

Some people here have suggested hiring a PI and I agree with that. A good PI has a lot of resources and can get information and proof that the normal person can't get. 

Since the OP and wife have already talked about these issues I would sit down with her and discuss everything and tell her how you feel, whats bothering you and demand truthful answers. A good relationship needs to have honest and open communication to work. I don't see that here. The wife does what she wants and the the OP has all of these questions but doesn't do say or do anything. Also in a marriage I don't believe there should be electronic device that are locked to the spouse. Marriage should be an open book in my opinion. The OP should have access to the wife's cell phone. The OP should insist this end immediately and he be given all passwords to the phone and social media accounts.

I wish the OP luck and he gets the answers he needs. It really sounds like the marriage needs some help no matter if she is cheating or not.


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