# Examples of a truely remorseful spouse.



## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

My good buddy Matt Matt came up with a thread called examples of a cheater script.
It inspired me to start a threat about what a FWS does,says and actions that help
a BS heal,move forward and trust again.

So I guess I'm the first.
My wife saying "sorry" many times,every day and meaning it.That helped me.
Shame,I did'nt ask for it but it was evident that she felt it.
Self exposure,she told people wth no proding from me.
Patience,that's a rough one.Its hard for a BS to deal with the betrayal.
The BS will rub it in and for a long time,the BS wants the WS to share in the pain.
My wife was on the ropes but never went down for the count.She was serious
about tryng to repair the damage.
Questions,my wife answered them over and over,for months and still does.
There is more that she did,I am at the point of 20 months post D day and I have
no regrets.
I know of some former BS's who feel the same here.
Anyone want to share the lenghts their former WS went to fix what they did?
Its nice to see success stories and positive stuff sometimes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

This is something at which I'm quite inexperienced. I'll only have guesses at what he/she will sound like.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

My wife was not actually remorseful, but she did organise new wedding rings and a rededication ceremony which helped a lot.


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## HarryDoyle (Jan 19, 2013)

calvin said:


> ........My wife saying "sorry" many times,every day and meaning it.That helped me.
> Shame,I did'nt ask for it but it was evident that she felt it.
> Self exposure,she told people wth no proding from me.
> Patience,that's a rough one.Its hard for a BS to deal with the betrayal.
> ...


:iagree: *This!*

My story exactly, except it's only been about 11 months for me. I gave my wife a "list" of things I felt she/we needed to do, not only to help me overcome her actions but also to repair our marriage and the things that caused the issues that led to her affair. She not only did the things I asked, but went way above and beyond. She has never complained once about anything. A part of me does not want to trust her because I don't want to get burned again, but her attitude and effort makes it hard not to. I have no doubts she is sincere, remorseful and totally changed. 

My problem is trying to accept the fact that less than a year ago she 
thought I was the lowest scum on earth and now I'm the sexiest man alive that she would do anything for and sometimes does.  Hard to believe sometimes.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> My wife was not actually remorseful, but she did organise new wedding rings and a rededication ceremony which helped a lot.


That sounds like remorse too me M&M.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

verpin zal said:


> This is something at which I'm quite inexperienced. I'll only have guesses at what he/she will sound like.


You're lucky.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

MessedUp86 said:


> I hope ill be able to add to this thread soon
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 I hope so also MU,it does happen though sadly it seems to be only a few
but the few seem to be more.
I still have faith n people to do the right thing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

calvin said:


> You're lucky.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would have wished otherwise..


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

verpin zal said:


> I would have wished otherwise..


 I'm sorry,I think I misunderstood.
You had to deal with infidelity?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mzflower (Aug 3, 2013)

-Mine says "sorry" all the time but it now mean nothing as he continues to lie

-I'd love to see actions, reading something on infidelity going back to IC

-When I express myself, stop defending!! Stop! Just give me a freaking hug, I love his hugs, I love his arms...in them I feel safe and forget everything.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Its good my wife hates her AP,she finally saw him without his mask,saw the real him.
My wife was willing to leave the home and not ask or expect anything.
That hurt me,knowing that she felt that bad,if that makes sense.


Honesty was there also,she never deviated from her answers,never refused to
to answer questions.
I hate to say it but I stopped her from taking a bunch of pills one night.
I don't want that kind of remorse,if it even is remorse.
She felt so bad about herself....enough of that.
She did'nt think she deserved a chance,she does.
She earned it.
I feel we all get one major fvck up,its how we use that second chance to better
Ourselves.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

Harry, that sounds a lot like us...we still have a lot of ups and downs, calvin is still very hurt and has a hard time with trusting me. It's normal to feel that way. Just keep it real, keep expressing to your WS how you feel. Do not feel bad if what you have to say isn't positive. Your mood will change daily. Your WS should hopefullyunderstand that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

HarryDoyle said:


> :iagree: *This!*
> 
> My story exactly, except it's only been about 11 months for me. I gave my wife a "list" of things I felt she/we needed to do, not only to help me overcome her actions but also to repair our marriage and the things that caused the issues that led to her affair. She not only did the things I asked, but went way above and beyond. She has never complained once about anything. A part of me does not want to trust her because I don't want to get burned again, but her attitude and effort makes it hard not to. I have no doubts she is sincere, remorseful and totally changed.
> 
> ...


 Yeah I know what you're saying Harry.
Temporary insanity? It seems like it to me.
I'm also the man now,before...not so much.
Once the POS showed his real self my wife was physically ill.
Good things are going well with you.
Once bitten twce sh Harry,we will forever hold some of ourselves back from
anyone and everyone.
Its not a bad thing.
Self preservation my man.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Communication and not holding back feelings are extremely important.
I never was the type of guy to let it out, held it all in for the most part.
That had to change.
My wife was not good at that either.
We are not afraid to let one another know when something pisses us off
Or when something the other does makes us feel good.
Communication is still a little tricky but its improving every day.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

calvin said:


> Its good my wife hates her AP,she finally saw him without his mask,saw the real him.
> My wife was willing to leave the home and not ask or expect anything.
> That hurt me,knowing that she felt that bad,if that makes sense.
> I hated myself, thought about how badly I hurt calvin. He didn't deserve it. I was awful to him. I still struggle to forgive myself. I want to call it guilt but it's way deeper than that. I look back and think, who the hell is this monster that felt sorry for herself and went to find an emotional relatiknship with another man for her own selfish reasons?? That person was me, yet I never thought I would do something like that. I know I won't again but the pain I have put calvin through...well I thought it might make things easier for him if I was dead. This way he could feel free from me. The wife he loves so much that he trusted more than anyone. UGGG. I ati struggle with self hatred.
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

Ok my phone is wacky...I replied to calvin's post but it landed in the middle of it somehow
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

calvin said:


> I'm sorry,I think I misunderstood.
> You had to deal with infidelity?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I did. Although as you said, I was lucky, I wasn't married to any of my former harlots.

But now I'm in a place in my life that if I don't sense any disturbance in the Force, I automatically assume that something is wrong with the relationship.

Developing habits and all that.

Don't be sorry. I'm not.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I think a great examble of remorse is when you no longer like the person you have become.
Your bad behavior just makes things worse and what ever one does to put a band aid on and it doesn't help then it time for a change.

What I'm talking about is making a change for your self...not for anyone else...

Now lets talk about infidelity and my old lady......


What I saw was a certain degree of submission in being transparent with #1 what she did, why she did it and taking the step to learn the tools to never do it again.

Often I read waywards continue to fight for some control in the marriage and IMHO they have no right to control anymore...Things like privacy, jobs, and even friendships.
Granted it will always be the waywards choice to except their independence, just like its also their choice to share the life with their spouse and become one with each other...I may be phucked up in this thinking but when the two become one thats some heavy sh1t and it should never be taken lightly. Especialy after your spouse screwes around on you...that kind of betrayal is something many can never come back from.

As far as my old lady...I think Mrs. the-guy owned her betrayal, no matter what the cause was it was her choice to bail or stick around and betray her self and her husband.

What matters is getting that monkey off her back and learning that all that bull crap never changed a damn thing...it just made her someone she never wanted to be. 

So if it took a spanking, the loss of friendships, accounting for her time with reciepts and paystubs, losing her phone, being tracked, kneeling down to her freak spouse (me) well she did what it took to help me heal.

I figure it wasn't about her this time...hell maybe it was..maybe it was all about her and what she had to do to keep the best thing in her life from walking away.

Cuz from were I'm sitting nothing will ever be the same and it will never go back to the way it was..........and thats a good thing!

Gottta run, Mrs. the guy is still tied up in the play room...LOL


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

One of the best examples was my wife cuttng ties with a friend since childhood.
I have also known this friend for twenty years,I used to like her.
While other friends were telling my wife to knock it off,her friend since childhood
was trying to set up nights to go drinking with POSOM (thank God it never happend)
My wife did send a NC text to this friend explaning why they could no longer talk,she then blocked her.
I defended this friend from some bf who were jerks so it kinda hurt me to cut her
out of my life also.
I would have though this friend would have tried to talk some sense into my wife,boy was I wrong.
That to me was an act of true remorse among other things my wife showed me.
If people could only see the damage infidelity does before hand....sigh.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

calvin said:


> One of the best examples was my wife cuttng ties with a friend since childhood.
> I have also known this friend for twenty years,I used to like her.
> While other friends were telling my wife to knock it off,her friend since childhood
> was trying to set up nights to go drinking with POSOM (thank God it never happend)
> ...


She was not a true friend to CSS, Calvin. She was either just a suck-up telling her what she wanted to hear or the friend thought if she got CSS hooked up with POSOM, that you would need the comfort and love of a good woman. Her.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

The friend was ignorant and had never been put in a situation like that. She regrets it and knows now to never get involved in such things with friends. It is sad that we lost our friendship but it is a consequence for my behavior.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

CantSitStill said:


> The friend was ignorant and had never been put in a situation like that. She regrets it and knows now to never get involved in such things with friends. It is sad that we lost our friendship but it is a consequence for my behavior.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


CSS, nobody is that ignorant. Really.

She knew what she was doing.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Truly remorseful or sufficiently remorseful? You can lie to me all day if I want to believe it's the truth.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Runs like Dog said:


> Truly remorseful or sufficiently remorseful? You can lie to me all day if I want to believe it's the truth.


No,I know the difference.
I wasn't raised a fool.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> She was not a true friend to CSS, Calvin. She was either just a suck-up telling her what she wanted to hear or the friend thought if she got CSS hooked up with POSOM, that you would need the comfort and love of a good woman. Her.


 Maybe not a true friend to CSS but I don't believe she had any interest in me.
I'd never want her,she is pretty butt freaken ugly and that's being nice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

The worst thing was I told CSS I'd date her if anything ever happend to CSS,onlt
Because I thought she was a nice girl.
Any other examples of remorse people?
I know there are are.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

calvin said:


> Maybe not a true friend to CSS but I don't believe she had any interest in me.
> I'd never want her,she is pretty butt freaken ugly and that's being nice.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So? She probably doesn't know that she's allurementally impaired.


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## heartbroken:( (Oct 7, 2013)

Still early days for us, only 8 days since I found out about my husband's one night stand.

But I can see that he is absolutely devastated (good), he offered to move out, jumped at the idea of marriage counselling (even though I know it is his worst nightmare) and has been trying to find somewhere to get us an earlier appointment. He says he knows he doesn't deserve my forgiveness but will do anything and everything I ask of him to fix it. He has answered every question I have asked of him and has told me every details of what happened that night. He has not blamed anything or anyone else, he was drunk but hasn't tried to use that as an excuse, he hasn't said it just happened, didn't mean anything, one thing led to another or any of those other cliches. 

He has apologised - a lot - he has cried and apologised for being upset because he knows he doesn't deserve any sympathy. He says he can hardly look at himself in the mirror and I can see that.

We have a long road ahead and he knows that but so far so good. Who knows what the future holds but since I found out he has done everything right. Of course it doesn't excuse the night that he did something very very wrong and hid it from me but he has not behaved in any way since I found out that has made me doubt his remorse.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Someone---tell me what saying I'M SORRY ---does

Does it take away the pain, the misery, the lack of trust possibly forever

The cheater, certainly wasn't sorry, while they drove a stake thru the heart of their spouse----drove it in, knowingly/willingly/happily----someone enlighten me---what does I'm Sorry---do???????

It can never help the betrayed deal with their sub--conscious, as they lie awake at 3 a m crying---or as they sit alone at their desk crying, or as they drive to and from, by themselves, crying---what does I'M SORRY do for anyone or anything???????


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

jnj express said:


> Someone---tell me what saying I'M SORRY ---does
> 
> Does it take away the pain, the misery, the lack of trust possibly forever
> 
> ...


When someone screws you over, it's nicer to hear 'i'm sorry' from them than 'f you loser'... It doesn't change that they screwed you over, but it shows that they are trying to give you something other than more pain at that point in time.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

heartbroken:( said:


> Still early days for us, only 8 days since I found out about my husband's one night stand.
> 
> But I can see that he is absolutely devastated (good), he offered to move out, jumped at the idea of marriage counselling (even though I know it is his worst nightmare) and has been trying to find somewhere to get us an earlier appointment. He says he knows he doesn't deserve my forgiveness but will do anything and everything I ask of him to fix it. He has answered every question I have asked of him and has told me every details of what happened that night. He has not blamed anything or anyone else, he was drunk but hasn't tried to use that as an excuse, he hasn't said it just happened, didn't mean anything, one thing led to another or any of those other cliches.
> 
> ...


 Sorry HB,it sucks and it hurts but you are very,very early into this.
Its sounds like H is doing the right things,now if he can just keep it up.
There is an excellent thread on here called reconcilliation that has many spouses
In various stages of R.
You will find a lot of support there.
God bless and the best of luck to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

jnj express said:


> Someone---tell me what saying I'M SORRY ---does
> 
> Does it take away the pain, the misery, the lack of trust possibly forever
> 
> ...


 Sorry you feeling this way jnj.
My WW spouse saying sorry over and over to me did bring me some comfort.
That along with the other heavy lifting proved to me just how remorseful she was.
Thought it may not seem like much it really was something I needed to hear.
It was'nt just the word but it was the way she said it and ment it.
I hope things get better for you soon.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

russell28 said:


> When someone screws you over, it's nicer to hear 'i'm sorry' from them than 'f you loser'... It doesn't change that they screwed you over, but it shows that they are trying to give you something other than more pain at that point in time.


 I agree.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

Go to the Private Members Section and read "I cheated and my husband left" by Tears. That is, IMHO, a remorseful spouse.

Even when there were posters who tried to hint that she cheated because her H wasn't as good as she was saying (i.e., justifying her cheating), Tears refused to put any of the blame on her H. She fully OWNED her affair and took FULL RESPONSIBILITY for her actions.

Even though she did cheat, I admire her for that.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

F-102 said:


> Go to the Private Members Section and read "I cheated and my husband left" by Tears. That is, IMHO, a remorseful spouse.
> 
> Even when there were posters who tried to hint that she cheated because her H wasn't as good as she was saying (i.e., justifying her cheating), Tears refused to put any of the blame on her H. She fully OWNED her affair and took FULL RESPONSIBILITY for her actions.
> 
> Even though she did cheat, I admire her for that.


I think just about anyone can cheat. Takes guts to confess and to try to make amends.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey Calvin---you just used the word sorry---in answering me----what did you actually mean by it????

I just don't understand how the words, I'm Sorry, and I understand what others are saying in answering my question---but I don't understand how the words I'm Sorry---DO ANYTHING

The cheater certainly was not SORRY---when they cheated, and destroyed a family, including spouse/children/lineal family---------they were fully into their A., and for the most part enjoying every bit of it----I am sure in the beginning, there were some recriminations, and even at guilt ridden times thruout the A---but I am sure you noticed the A didn't stop--- please give me a break---your partner---your loving partner---gives themselves to another---essentially REPLACING you---and I'm sorry does the trick for you,----IMHO there needs to be a whole lot more, in the way of speaking about what and why---than the daily I'm Sorry----Should I say, I'm Sorry to be laboring this line of thinking


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

Yes I'm sorry is not enough. People say "I'm sorry" yet continue bad behavior. People that are truly sorry will change their ways and do all they can to make their spouse feel better and also be transparent and trustworthy. The trust does not come back right away. Calvin does not fully trust me. It is my fault and my consequence. Sorry needs to be shown not just said. I always felt saying sorry wasn't enough. Reconciliation is a lot of work and totally has been worth the work I have done to improve myself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

jnj express said:


> Hey Calvin---you just used the word sorry---in answering me----what did you actually mean by it????
> 
> I just don't understand how the words, I'm Sorry, and I understand what others are saying in answering my question---but I don't understand how the words I'm Sorry---DO ANYTHING
> 
> The cheater certainly was not SORRY---when they cheated, and destroyed a family, including spouse/children/lineal family---------they were fully into their A., and for the most part enjoying every bit of it----I am sure in the beginning, there were some recriminations, and even at guilt ridden times thruout the A---but I am sure you noticed the A didn't stop--- please give me a break---your partner---your loving partner---gives themselves to another---essentially REPLACING you---and I'm sorry does the trick for you,----IMHO there needs to be a whole lot more, in the way of speaking about what and why---than the daily I'm Sorry----Should I say, I'm Sorry to be laboring this line of thinking


 Hey jnj,
Sorry is more that just a word jnj,its an act.
The word sorry when coupled with actions can mean a boatload.
I'm from the South were the word sorry still means something.
Now up here in Chicago it doesn't mean much at all.
Saying I'm sorry is a customized deal.
Some people mean it,some people think its a cure all.
To others its a curse word.
I can tell you the sorrys I hear from my wife are heartfelt and heartwrenching.
So yes ...a genuine sorry means a lot.
A "I'm sorry as a half heart apology means nothing ,its an excuse.
Hang in tight jnj,you will get there one way or the other.
I'm sorry man,I mean that.
God bless.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

Do not say sorry! Lol jk
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

OK ---then lets get to the crux of this thread---what actions does the straying spouse take to show that he/she is truly sorry------what actions does the straying spouse take to help the betrayed, thru periods of pain when triggering----and how long are these actions to be continued-----in the course of the mge.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

jnj express said:


> OK ---then lets get to the crux of this thread---what actions does the straying spouse take to show that he/she is truly sorry------what actions does the straying spouse take to help the betrayed, thru periods of pain when triggering----and how long are these actions to be continued-----in the course of the mge.


They exopes themselves,they feel shame,they don't stop.
They answer questions over and over.
They show love,they cry,they thank you for this chance.
The BS should realise that if he messed up and would want a second chance
Would want compassion shown to him also,it can happen to us,doubtful but it can.
You'll know it. Marriage or relationship can be salvaged and rebuilt.
Follow your heart.
I talked enough and I'm tired.
Best of luck luck jnj
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

F-102 said:


> Go to the Private Members Section and read "I cheated and my husband left" by Tears. That is, IMHO, a remorseful spouse.
> 
> Even when there were posters who tried to hint that she cheated because her H wasn't as good as she was saying (i.e., justifying her cheating), Tears refused to put any of the blame on her H. She fully OWNED her affair and took FULL RESPONSIBILITY for her actions.
> 
> Even though she did cheat, I admire her for that.


:iagree:


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

jnj express said:


> Hey Calvin---you just used the word sorry---in answering me----what did you actually mean by it????
> 
> I just don't understand how the words, I'm Sorry, and I understand what others are saying in answering my question---but I don't understand how the words I'm Sorry---DO ANYTHING
> 
> The cheater certainly was not SORRY---when they cheated, and destroyed a family, including spouse/children/lineal family---------they were fully into their A., and for the most part enjoying every bit of it----I am sure in the beginning, there were some recriminations, and even at guilt ridden times thruout the A---but I am sure you noticed the A didn't stop--- please give me a break---your partner---your loving partner---gives themselves to another---essentially REPLACING you---and I'm sorry does the trick for you,----IMHO there needs to be a whole lot more, in the way of speaking about what and why---than the daily I'm Sorry----Should I say, I'm Sorry to be laboring this line of thinking


The "I'm sorry"s usually come with a bit more than just those words.. If WS is to the place where they are truly sorry, then there will be more than just those words. A whole lot more, you are correct.

You hit a key point in this post.. While they are in the affair, they are NOT sorry... It seems that a key part of being sorry, is to no longer be in an affair. If someone is telling you they are sorry, and they are still giving themselves to another, then no, they are not sorry.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

jnj express said:


> OK ---then lets get to the crux of this thread---what actions does the straying spouse take to show that he/she is truly sorry------what actions does the straying spouse take to help the betrayed, thru periods of pain when triggering----and how long are these actions to be continued-----in the course of the mge.


Give themselves to the BS 100% and make it clear they are the top priority for as long as it takes.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

It was'nt just saying I'm sorry from my wife but her actions also backed this up.
She also would say please forgive me,that is much more powerful that saying I'm sorry.
My wifes A also didn't go physical even if she did meet the POS a few times during the
day at a K-mart parking lot ( he was a old hs bf ) he also was a convicted felon and a nut job.
The "I'm sorrys" coupled with other acts of remorse really did help me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Everyone is different in what they need to hear and the actions they need in order
To help them heal.
Make any sense jnj?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

I understand full well, that everyone treats this differently---and I know 1st hand that many can do nothing about the cheating---as an example

I worked security at Disneyland for many years-----over the course of those years---I hauled upwards of 25 H's in to the office for physical abuse on their wives, in the park, we did the paperwork, and called Anaheim PD to come take away the H's---but when Anaheim arrived---to a woman all 25 refused to press charges----Why---cuz If we put the H, in jail, that wife, would be without any means of support for her and her kids---so they suffered the abuse, and went on with their lives---eating, and a roof over their head, took precedence to getting knocked around

I am sure I could make out the same story for many of the BS that come here---they can't leave their cheating spouse---they could never cope, on their own

OK---so you accept the I'm Sorry------how far does that take the BS---lets move on----For How long does the BS play Parole Officer----I E---does the trust ever come back------

What happens If something out of the ordinary happens and the cheater does not call home, or get in touch with the BS---says phone went out, among other excuses----How long before the BS---gets their antenna up--that something just might be going down

At what point do you demand that the cheater sign a POST--NUP---which to some extent might prevent any further cheating----and please do not tell me they are ineffective----THEY ARE COMPLETELY EFFECTIVE IF THEY HAVE A DURESS CLAUSE AS PART OF THE POST--NUP

How far does I'm sorry---really take the cheater---and how many I'm sorries does the BS accept---no matter how they are uttered, and no matter what actions go with them

It doesn't in any way shape or form remove any of the visions, the BS has, and misery that is there that the BS lives with----and please don't any of you successful R'ing BS tell me you have no visions and misery from time to time---THRU THE COURSE OF YOUR CONTINUED MGE---cuz I would have to say, you ain't being fully truthful---If you claim you have no after problems, upon discovery of the A.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

jnj express said:


> I understand full well, that everyone treats this differently---and I know 1st hand that many can do nothing about the cheating---as an example
> 
> I worked security at Disneyland for many years-----over the course of those years---I hauled upwards of 25 H's in to the office for physical abuse on their wives, in the park, we did the paperwork, and called Anaheim PD to come take away the H's---but when Anaheim arrived---to a woman all 25 refused to press charges----Why---cuz If we put the H, in jail, that wife, would be without any means of support for her and her kids---so they suffered the abuse, and went on with their lives---eating, and a roof over their head, took precedence to getting knocked around
> 
> ...



What's your point, that divorce instantly cures all misery and depression, you will no longer have any visions and in any future relationships, you'll never wonder about this new person if all of the sudden they vanish and don't return a phone call?.. because your trust with this person will be exactly where it was prior to being cheated on? 

I'm guessing after discovery of the A.. you're having problems one way or another. Even if you try to fool yourself into thinking all is well. 

You sound pretty angry for example... you don't sound like someone that has no baggage, or is free from misery.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

jnj express said:


> I understand full well, that everyone treats this differently---and I know 1st hand that many can do nothing about the cheating---as an example
> 
> I worked security at Disneyland for many years-----over the course of those years---I hauled upwards of 25 H's in to the office for physical abuse on their wives, in the park, we did the paperwork, and called Anaheim PD to come take away the H's---but when Anaheim arrived---to a woman all 25 refused to press charges----Why---cuz If we put the H, in jail, that wife, would be without any means of support for her and her kids---so they suffered the abuse, and went on with their lives---eating, and a roof over their head, took precedence to getting knocked around
> 
> ...


 Jnj its the "I'm sorries" I get along with everything else she does,she never went physical
nor did she try to,I guess that makes a difference for tme even though the betrayal
still hurts.
I still trigger but after 20 months they have lost most of their power over me.
I'll never trust her like I did but the trust has come back quite a bit and yes my radar
is always running but most f the time its in low gear.
There are spouses and other people who see the pain their actions caused,some people deserve
The one chance,most don't.
The prenup was offered by her,she outed herself to others,the shame,guilt
And other signs of remorse I witnessed were real.
She offered to move out.
I know she's worth this shot.
Can I be 100% positive it won't happen again?...nope but I'm as close to that
As a person can be.
I know I'd thrive if this were ever to happen again and we split for good so I have
No fear of being on my own,at 17 I already was on my own.
It all sucks jnj and it hurts.
I hope you feel better soon.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

My wife says sorry quite a bit for the pain she caused me.

Early on my wife did bring up some of my faults, but she never said this is why I cheated on you, like she did in the past. She has taken full responsibility for her actions, lies, deceit, and cheating, 100%. She has not brought one thing about "how controlling I am", etc. which was her mantra for years. She realizes that I was not controlling, she just did not like the fact that when I asked her where she was that that was interferring with her A.

The I love you's. My wife says I love you, quite a bit.

Putting me first. Knowing my moods and getting me to talk.

Answering every question.

Being open and transparent.

Feeling a need to tell me what she was doing when she does not answer the phone when I call. She will call me back and explain what she was doing, I did not ask her to do this. 

Being honest. At first after she came clean she still had feelings for the XOM. It was not fun for me. When she reached a point of not having any feelings she told me it was over. She did want some closure, but did not argue or push it when I said no. Closure to her was wantint to talk to the XOM and say goodbye. That is no longer an issue. I did tell my wife that she has to greive this loss and she said that that is unfair to me. I said the whole A was unfair to me but I realize that you need time to get over feelings no matter how I feel. And it did suc*. 

My wife working her butt off and now that she is sick, she is trying very hard to help get our debt under control. She was at fault for lessening our credit rating. And she is doing all she can to repair it.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Thorburn said:


> My wife says sorry quite a bit for the pain she caused me.
> 
> Early on my wife did bring up some of my faults, but she never said this is why I cheated on you, like she did in the past. She has taken full responsibility for her actions, lies, deceit, and cheating, 100%. She has not brought one thing about "how controlling I am", etc. which was her mantra for years. She realizes that I was not controlling, she just did not like the fact that when I asked her where she was that that was interferring with her A.
> 
> ...


That's good to hear Thornburn
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Thorburn said:


> My wife says sorry quite a bit for the pain she caused me.
> 
> Early on my wife did bring up some of my faults, but she never said this is why I cheated on you, like she did in the past. She has taken full responsibility for her actions, lies, deceit, and cheating, 100%. She has not brought one thing about "how controlling I am", etc. which was her mantra for years. She realizes that I was not controlling, she just did not like the fact that when I asked her where she was that that was interferring with her A.
> 
> ...


Crazy how that 'controlling' thing always comes up... The WS is sneaking, lying, deceiving and manipulating the BS... Meanwhile, they are getting away with having a lover on the side, having cake and eating it too.. and WHO is controlling again?

Another example of a truly remorseful spouse.. when they realize that THEY were the ones that had been controlling, not the BS... 

Saying that you are controlling, is the mantra of the cheater.. you are 'controlling' them, aka expecting them to be loyal and faithful to you. They will tell family and friends how controlling you are.. Meanwhile, you, the 'controlling' one, isn't telling anyone anything negative about the WS... so again, WHO's controlling?

A BS being 'controlling' is a reaction to all the red flags and signs that they're losing the spouse.. it's a byproduct of the actions of the wayward, that they then put on the BS as an added reason to cheat.

Another example of a remorseful spouse.. they get to the point where they no longer tell you why you made them cheat, they take 100% of the blame for going there and feel horrible about it.. and they do damage control for trashing you to family and friends.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Mehjlissa said:


> Your mood will change daily. Your WS should hopefullyunderstand that.


Daily... hourly...


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

russell28 said:


> Crazy how that 'controlling' thing always comes up... The WS is sneaking, lying, deceiving and manipulating the BS... Meanwhile, they are getting away with having a lover on the side, having cake and eating it too.. and WHO is controlling again?
> 
> Another example of a truly remorseful spouse.. when they realize that THEY were the ones that had been controlling, not the BS...
> 
> ...


Hi

I don't think all wayward spouses use these tactics on their loyal spouse. 

I am sorry yours did. I think that must make things a lot more difficult.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

remorseful strayer said:


> Hi
> 
> I don't think all wayward spouses use these tactics on their loyal spouse.
> 
> I am sorry yours did. I think that must make things a lot more difficult.


Not all, but it's actually a pretty common theme.. and they do all have some things in common, like lies and manipulation and deceit. Manipulating someone, to fulfill selfish desires, with no concern for consequences of the person you're manipulating.. that's pretty controlling.

If you mean saying that you were controlling, that was only the first day or so.. I shut that down quickly with the "You cheated on me for years, I obviously wasn't controlling enough.." line.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

russell28 said:


> Not all, but it's actually a pretty common theme.. and they do all have some things in common, like lies and manipulation and deceit. Manipulating someone, to fulfill selfish desires, with no concern for consequences of the person you're manipulating.. that's pretty controlling.


Hi Russel:

I agree it appears to be a fairly common theme. 

Still, I have to disagree that all follow the script. 

As for lying and deception and manipulation. I never engaged in those tactics either. I never had to. It is in part what allowed the affair to progress. 

My wife was off doing her thing with her family and never asked me where I was or with whom. 

If I had to lie, I think I would have ended the affair sooner. 

Likewise with the manipulation. Since I never had to lie to her, because she never questioned me about anything, there was never any reason to manipulate her. 

She found out because the other women decided she wanted more than an affair. When I broke it off, she contacted my wife. 

When my wife finally questioned me, I told the truth.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Talking about how they cheater claims the BS is controlling---another way of putting that is to tell the cheater---"I am not controlling", "I am fighting for this mge", "I am trying to keep it alive, even as you are here trying to destroy it"

That puts it in a completely different light, even tho the end is the same----it also puts responsibility back on the cheater, and leaves the cheater no one to blame/justify for their cheating


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

remorseful strayer said:


> Hi Russel:
> 
> I agree it appears to be a fairly common theme.
> 
> ...


I see you're still lying to yourself.

You were NOT being honest, even if she never asked you.. 

You WERE manipulating her, even if you lie to yourself and say you weren't.. you were in the power position in the relationship, and you liked it.. having that control.

I can only laugh at the 'I think I would have ended the affair sooner'... because that's total crap and you know it. You were able to look your wife in the eye, and you were cheating on her.. you're not going to give me a line of bull that you would have ended it had she said "are you cheating honey?".. you're still in a fog.

She questioned you because you were busted... caught cold.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

My wife accused me of being controlling,she knows that's not the case now.
Hell she put 100% of the blame on me for the bad stuff in our marriage.
She didn't believe the counselor.
Wife sees things different now.
If someone cheats its on them,not the devil made me do it.
There are plenty of options if one is not happy in their marrige.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

russell28 said:


> I see you're still lying to yourself.
> 
> You were NOT being honest, even if she never asked you..
> 
> ...


:iagree:

Ever hear of lying by ommission? If I see a dog growling, foaming at the mouth and baring its teeth I'm not going to ask it "are you going to bite me?" You interracted with your wife all the while you were a rabid dog underneath. That's deception and she's the one that got bit.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

Russell, a BS can be controlling, just as a WS can. The stereotypes aren't always true, and can be very misleading. Both GF and I are controlling people, but in different ways and in different areas. She never demanded I end my EAs, but there were other things she was (and still is) controlling about. As for the wayward always trashing their spouse/partner - that's not always the case either. I generally spoke well of her, despite the fact that our relationship was imploding. I also didn't need to "rewrite" things about her or our relationship - stuff was bad on both sides, enough said. Just saying, every situation and couple is different.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

Bfree! You're back! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

soulpotato said:


> Bfree! You're back!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I took a weekend off but I couldn't stay away. It was a nice few days though. Lots of prayer and cuddle time.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

bfree said:


> I took a weekend off but I couldn't stay away. It was a nice few days though. Lots of prayer and cuddle time.


Howdy bfree.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

The controlling comment with many other things my wife said about me were ways to rewrite the M. When cheaters have a sense of right and wrong, they need to justify their cheating. Many cheaters have a good M, based upon research. There are cheaters who will admit that their M was good or even great. But in order to justify their cheating often you see the cheater put down the BS in many ways. In my case, most of my wife's complaints were pure lies. If I was controlling why did she have so much time to cheat? Why did I get so blindsighted by her cheating if I was so controlling? When I heard her and my SIL talking on the VAR and my wife was complaining about how controlling I was it really got sickening for me. Her middle sister laughed about my wife's A, and said isn't it terrible that your husband checks on you? Instead of telling her sister (my wife) to knock it off. 

My wife made up with her sister after years of tension between them, last year when our BIL died. She threw me under the bus to do so. Long story, but i will not have anything to do with this SIL. My wife and her blew any attempt to have a relationship like we had in the past. And based upon my SIL's track record with my wife it is best that she stays away.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

Russel:

I understand you're in pain, projecting your issues on to me, transferring anger from your wife onto me, and likely triggering. 

Be nice. I did not cause your problem. Your wife did. '

Just like I CAUSED MY OWN MARITAL PROBLEM, not the OW.

Here is the definition of manipulation:



> World English Dictionary
> manipulate (məˈnɪpjʊˌleɪt)
> 
> — vb
> ...


I did none of those things. My wife was simply not concerned about my whereabouts. 




russell28 said:


> I see you're still lying to yourself.
> 
> As for your other remarks. Are you claiming to be psychic? If so, even the best psychic has only and 80 percent success rate, and in this case, you are WRONG.
> 
> ...


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

bfree said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Ever hear of lying by ommission? If I see a dog growling, foaming at the mouth and baring its teeth I'm not going to ask it "are you going to bite me?" You interracted with your wife all the while you were a rabid dog underneath. That's deception and she's the one that got bit.


Bfree:

If you are going to level an unprovoked attack please get your facts straight:

What I did fails to meet the definition of lying by omission. I didn't omit facts, I was never asked, I did not fail to correct a misconception, there was never any conception to speak of to begin with.

BTW: Simply because a dog is growling or foaming at the mouth does not guarantee it will bite you. 

I am not even sure that your analogy is relevant. Cute, (unless of course you shoot the poor dog who may simply be foaming and growling due to heat prostration not rabies) but the analogy is not very relevant, IMO. :redcard:

Here's the definition of lying by omission:



> *Lying by omission is* lying by either omitting certain facts or by failing to correct a misconception. In the case of the former, an example of this would be a car salesmen claiming a car to have amazing fuel economy while neglecting to mention that it has no engine and is completely immobile.
> 
> In the case of the latter, it could be a situation in which a misconception exists that the claimant is aware of but fails to correct, such as a person who wanders around a hospital dressed as a doctor, offering treatment while failing to mention that she is in fact just getting a kick out of pretending to be a doctor.[2]


Lying by omission - RationalWiki


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## user_zero (Aug 30, 2013)

remorseful strayer said:


> Hi Russel:
> 
> I agree it appears to be a fairly common theme.
> 
> ...


these are the definition I've found on a website (Dictionary.com - Free Online English Dictionary). I just wrote the one that I think is related to the subject we're talking about : 

to lie : to speak falsely or utter untruth knowingly, as with intent to deceive.

to deceive : to mislead by a false appearance or statement; to be unfaithful to (one's spouse or lover); to mislead or falsely persuade others.

to manipulate : to manage or influence skillfully, especially in an unfair manner; to adapt or change (accounts, figures, etc.) to suit one's purpose or advantage. 
-------------------------------------------------------
remorseful_strayer,
by these definitions, you've been deceiving your wife during the affair. if you have doubt about it, you just have to ask yourself a simple question: during your affair, were you and your wife on the same page (about the marriage)? maybe on the same chapter but certainly not the same page. you never went to your wife and say : "here's the thing honey. I'm not satisfied with the current state of our relationship. so I'm seeing someone else." you never done that, right? that's deceiving.

have you seen magician's show? sometimes they don't say anything. they just make you believe something , when in fact they're doing something else. that's manipulation and deception. don't you agree? but in their case it's fun not like affair business (at least not from a BS point of view).

you know what ... what you've just posted is exactly following the script of someone who cheated in his marriage. you're trying to make what you've done less bad. so you could have less guilt. so you could compare yourself to someone who did lie and say "I'm better than them". it's called lower the weight of our choices by lessening the magnitude of what we've done. it's exactly what children do , when they do something very bad and they don't have the knowledge to explain it or even accept and deal with it in a healthy way. you know why I said about children's behavior. because I want you to understand this is very immature. 
the first step to be remorseful about something we've done is to understand why we were wrong and how much we were wrong. to understand the magnitude of what we've done. and from what I'm reading in your post , you clearly don't.

and BTW about the Bold text : If I had to lie about .... 
are you saying if you had to lie about affair it would certainly be bad enough to finally end the affair. are you saying just because you didn't lie about it , it is a better affair. I mean ... really? don't you see how childish that is?  :scratchhead:

I'm not a BS , never been there. so I can assure you I'm not projecting any imaginative pain to you. I'm better than that. I'm not saying these to attack you or put you down , .... .I'm saying these to make sure you understand what you've done.

and BTW#2 : if being true to our vows was/is depend on how much our spouse is invested in marriage, we would stated those conditions when we were making those vows. you're lying to yourself , if you think your affair was better because your spouse weren't there for you.

Good Luck

PS : Calvin, I wanted to apologize to you. because you started this thread with positive intention and my post doesn't have anything in it contributed to your thread. I'm truly sorry for that.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

User zero,
Don't worry about it,I like to see everyones input no matter what its is.
Post away
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

soulpotato said:


> Russell, a BS can be controlling, just as a WS can. The stereotypes aren't always true, and can be very misleading. Both GF and I are controlling people, but in different ways and in different areas. She never demanded I end my EAs, but there were other things she was (and still is) controlling about. As for the wayward always trashing their spouse/partner - that's not always the case either. I generally spoke well of her, despite the fact that our relationship was imploding. I also didn't need to "rewrite" things about her or our relationship - stuff was bad on both sides, enough said. Just saying, every situation and couple is different.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Many times the BS, trying to 'control', the WS, is trying to control things they can't see or hear or feel.. they know there are obstacles, and they know there are things missing, but they are not sure what those things are. When they sense these things are missing, they get insecure, and justifiably so. The subconcious knows that the partner is no longer invested, so when the BS sees the WS flirting, or wearing provocative clothing for example, they might get jealous because they are aware that this attention to grooming is not for them, it's for others. They over react by trying to get the partner to control the flirting, or provacative dress.. and it's taken as them being controlling, when in fact if the WS was giving the BS some attention, making them feel loved and special, they jealousy and need to 'control' them would go away, and they could feel wanted and loved instead of confused and angry. I'm talking about behaviors even before the affair. 

So while every BS isn't perfect, and I'm sure some are controlling.. it seems that a common theme when a wayward spouse is busted is that they say the BS was controlling. They also can say they are needy. What I'm saying, is these attributes in the case of someone that's cheating, can many times be a direct byproduct of the affair. Affairs are abusive. The WS is withholding love, affection, attention, time, honor, respect, concern for the BS and giving all those things to another. The BS picks up on these things.. The mind compensates..

When I was young my wife dressed sexy, and I was okay with it because she also always paid me much attention.. as she got older, and paid me less attention... I got more jealous when I'd see her showing her assets to other guys, or playing with her hair while talking to guys etc... why? Because I wasn't getting that attention.. She later admitted to me that she liked it when I was jealous, and would sometimes dress to provoke me.. so she's telling her whole family what a controlling jerk I am, meanwhile she's playing with my emotions to boost her own ego... There's an example. 

So am I controlling, or just someone that wanted his wife to make him feel safe and comfortable, and loved?


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

remorseful strayer said:


> Russel:
> 
> I understand you're in pain, projecting your issues on to me, transferring anger from your wife onto me, and likely triggering.
> 
> ...


You did #3... and #2

I'd also like to add, you don't trigger me. I just feel sorry for you, and your wife. You did cause the problem in your marriage, and the OW helped.. unless you forgot to mention to her that you're married.

I'm being very nice to you.. I'm helping you to see what you're doing. Lying to yourself. You don't have to thank me, it's a public service.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

remorseful strayer said:


> Bfree:
> 
> If you are going to level an unprovoked attack please get your facts straight:
> 
> ...


Simple question.. when you got married, did you take a vow? Do you remember what was said?


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

> you know what ... what you've just posted is exactly following the script of someone who cheated in his marriage. you're trying to make what you've done less bad. so you could have less guilt.


Do you realize that your entire post wreaks of someone who accepts no blame for failings in one's marriage. 

Cheating is 100 percent the cheaters fault. If you read my posts you know that I have said that. 

As for absolving guilt, I don't have any, at this point. I owned up to my behavior and changed it. 

If your spouse cheated, have you changed any of your failings in the marriage or do you believe you had none?


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

russell28 said:


> Simple question.. when you got married, did you take a vow? Do you remember what was said?


Do you realize that if you believe that a spouse cheats for no reason than you are likely lying to yourself. We all lie and deny to a certain extent. that's what humans do. 

Are you a god or human?

Yes. I remember my vows. 

I took a vow to be faithful and to forsake all others. I did not take a vow to be celibate for ten years. 

My reconciliation is working because my wife now realizes that she broke her vows. She abandoned the marriage emotionally and physically. 

She was going through a mid life crisis she now claims or understands. She has owned up to that.

It really would be far easier for me to move on rather than work on the marriage.

What about you? How is your reconciliation going?

BTW: You seem grumpy today. Why is that?


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Any failings in the marriage, paled in comparison to the failings the affair created.. "Oh look a little fire, let me get some gasoline to put it out..."


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

remorseful strayer said:


> Bfree:
> 
> If you are going to level an unprovoked attack please get your facts straight:
> 
> ...


Your wife was under the misconception that you were faithful and were adhering to your marriage vows. You failed to correct that misconception. Ergo you lied by ommission. Thanks for clearing that up.

Oh and trust me, if I attack you you'll know it.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

russell28 said:


> You did #3... and #2
> 
> I'd also like to add, you don't trigger me. I just feel sorry for you, and your wife. You did cause the problem in your marriage, and the OW helped.. unless you forgot to mention to her that you're married.


You likely haven't been following my posts. The OW knew I was married. She has had several past affairs that her husband never knew about and still knows nothing about. She has in fact convinced him she only met me for coffee. He believes her. 

She initiated the affair, she claimed that's all she wanted. That changed. I doubt because I am all that wonderful but likely because her husband earns less than I, and she liked the bulge in my wallet. 



> I'm being very nice to you.. I'm helping you to see what you're doing. Lying to yourself. You don't have to thank me, it's a public service.



Are you being nice? So by that logic you likely think that I am being nice by by pointing out that you are lying to yourself when you claim you aren't triggered and when you insist you want to be nice to me.

Problem solved.....yes. no?

This is a discussion and if you like a public service in return, right.  I am open to more, are you?


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

remorseful strayer said:


> Do you realize that if you believe that a spouse cheats for no reason than you are likely lying to yourself. We all lie and deny to a certain extent. that's what humans do.
> 
> Are you a god or human?
> 
> ...


I'm actually in a pretty good mood today.. It feels good to come here and vent. I think you are projecting.

I do know why my wife cheated, we've gone over it quite a bit in the past few months talking and in MC.. Basically she got too close to someone that wasn't her husband, and crossed boundaries then made tons of excuses and stupid reasons to justify it.

R is going very good, thanks for asking. You say she now "claims", do you not believe her? It sounds like you doubt her sincerity.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

bfree said:


> Oh and trust me, if I attack you you'll know it.


Of course i will. 

But the real question is will you?


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

remorseful strayer said:


> You likely haven't been following my posts. The OW knew I was married. She has had several past affairs that her husband never knew about and still knows nothing about. She has in fact convinced him she only met me for coffee. He believes her.
> 
> She initiated the affair, she claimed that's all she wanted. That changed. I doubt because I am all that wonderful but likely because her husband earns less than I, and she liked the bulge in my wallet.
> 
> ...


I enjoy the debate.. You seem nice enough to me. I wish you the best, no hard feelings.. just good discussion.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

remorseful strayer said:


> Do you realize that if you believe that a spouse cheats for no reason than you are likely lying to yourself. We all lie and deny to a certain extent. that's what humans do.
> 
> Are you a god or human?
> 
> ...


You couldn't have divorced? Separated? Maybe have an intervention with some people close to her? There was nothing else you could have done besides cheat?

I don't know your story other than what I've read here but pardon me for saying it looks from here like you've successfully blameshifted your affair onto your wife.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

russell28 said:


> I do know why my wife cheated, we've gone over it quite a bit in the past few months talking and in MC.. Basically she got too close to someone that wasn't her husband, and crossed boundaries then made tons of excuses and stupid reasons to justify it.


I am glad you are enjoying venting. The things you mention are reasons but have you got at the root cause. Like what she felt was missing in the marriage?



> R is going very good, thanks for asking. You say she now "claims", do you not believe her? It sounds like you doubt her sincerity.


I always use the word claims because I never know what someone is truly thinking. Human's routinely lie to themselves. It's part of being human. 

People often say things that cover up their true thoughts. The reasons for it are many. 

So, because I am not psychic, I always leave the possibility open to the fact that a person may be in denial about their own truth. 

They may in fact be lying to themselves. 

In my next life, maybe I will be psychic, but in this one I'm not.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

bfree said:


> I don't know your story other than what I've read here but pardon me for saying it looks from here like you've successfully blameshifted your affair onto your wife.


That's right you don't. Why not search for my posts. Many of your questions have already been answered numerous times. 

BTW: Why did your wife cheat on you? Did you ask her to give you a root cause of her unhappiness?

If she has given a root cause, did you accuse her of blameshifting?


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## user_zero (Aug 30, 2013)

remorseful strayer said:


> Do you realize that your entire post wreaks of someone who accepts no blame for failings in one's marriage.


No I don't agree with you on that. but let's just ask other people's opinion. I want to ask other posters on this thread to read my post (post#69) and tell me if you have the same idea as our friend here.

and BTW in all of my post you only mentioned this line. does that mean you don't have anything to say against other parts of it?



remorseful strayer said:


> Cheating is 100 percent the cheaters fault. If you read my posts you know that I have said that.


what your posting now is exactly opposite of that. just because you say something, doesn't mean I should agree with you. your other posts leak of something else.



remorseful strayer said:


> As for absolving guilt, I don't have any, at this point. I owned up to my behavior and changed it.


first let me say : it's obvious to me you don't have any guilt.
second: you're saying because you are a changed person , you shouldn't have any guilt for what you've done?
ask truly remorseful FWS here on TAM (EI, CSS, SoulPotato,...) they cheated in their relationship, they own their mistake. they are not the same person. but they still have guilt for what they've done. you know why? because that's how healthy , mature people deal with their mistakes. that's the normal behavior.



remorseful strayer said:


> If your spouse cheated, have you changed any of your failings in the marriage or do you believe you had none?


I stated before. I'm not a BS. I'm not married. this is the same thing you tried to pull on Russell28. you're trying to redirect the discussion focus to someone else 's life.You know this is a form of blame shifting. this is very childish, dude. my advice to you : GROW UP!


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

remorseful strayer said:


> That's right you don't. Why not search for my posts. Many of your questions have already been answered numerous times.
> 
> BTW: Why did your wife cheat on you? Did you ask her to give you a root cause of her unhappiness?


Because she was broken before I met her. My fault in my first marriage was not seeing the warning signs before we wed. I went through quite a bit of growing up insofar as realtionships are concerned so that when it came time to decide to allow another woman into my life I was a lot more careful about who I got serious with.

While I'd love to peruse TAM and search through all of your posts I just frankly don't have the time. Maybe you'd be a dear and organize them for us?


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

user_zero said:


> No I don't agree with you on that. but let's just ask other people's opinion. I want to ask other posters on this thread to read my post (post#69) and tell me if you have the same idea as our friend here.
> 
> *Nope*.
> 
> ...


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

user_zero said:


> I stated before. I'm not a BS. I'm not married. this is the same thing you tried to pull on Russell28. you're trying to redirect the discussion focus to someone else 's life.You know this is a form of blame shifting. this is very childish, dude. my advice to you : GROW UP!


Actually, I think the problem is that some people are throwing around the word blameshifting without actually understanding what it means. 

Telling someone a fact of a LEGITIMATE failing in the marriage is not blameshifting. It's actually communication. 

There's a difference and a lot of reconciliations fail because the loyal spouse does not understand the difference. 

That is why most here need a counselor to help them muddle through this issue. 

Blameshifting is rewriting the marital history, or saying, I cheated because you work long hours to earn more money. Working long hours to earn more money is done for the good of the family and is not done to harm the marriage. 

So, to accuse a husband of working too much to help the family....well that is blameshifting. 

Voicing a complaint that any reasonable counselor or person would see as an issue that would create marital conflict is not blameshifting. 

Can you see the difference?


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

bfree said:


> Problem is that doesn't work with us on TAM. We're immune.


Yes, I can see you are quite resistent to logic. 

I am curious about why you have not answered my question, regarding the root cause of your wife's affair. I answered yours.

Have you addressed a root cause, or is she afraid to offer one because when she does, you accuse her of blameshifting? 

When the counselors discussed my wifes non-existent sex drive and pointed out that it destroys the emotional bond in the marriage, I consider myself quite lucky that my wife did not jump on the blameshifting bandwagon.....so did the MC. It facilitated communication, instead of shutting it down.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

remorseful strayer said:


> Actually, I think the problem is that some people are throwing around the word blameshifting without actually understanding what it means.
> 
> Telling someone a fact of a LEGITIMATE failing in the marriage is not blameshifting. It's actually communication.
> 
> ...


So once again I ask you. You had no other options other than to have an affair? Why didn't you address your marital issues in another way?

You said your wife is working on her issues related to sex in the marriage. What issues are you working on? Are you in counseling to discover the root cause of why your boundaries were so weak? Have you had any breakthroughs into why you could betray the one that you promised to love forever?


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

remorseful strayer said:


> Yes, I can see you are quite resistent to logic.
> 
> I am curious about why you have not answered my question, regarding the root cause of your wife's affair. I answered yours.
> 
> ...


I did answer your question. I said my exW was broken before I met her and I just didn't see it. Now can you please answer my question? And you're quite right. I am highly resistant to circular logic.


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## user_zero (Aug 30, 2013)

remorseful strayer said:


> Actually, I think the problem is that some people are throwing around the word blameshifting without actually understanding what it means.
> 
> Telling someone a fact of a LEGITIMATE failing in the marriage is not blameshifting. It's actually communication.
> 
> ...


you got me wrong.
blame-shifting happens through redirection. I wasn't talking about your marriage or any marriage. I was talking about what you're doing right now. we are talking about your situation , your post , your ideas , your reasoning and YOU are trying to REDIRECT the FOCUS of DESCUSSION toward someone else's life.

I hope this time I could get my point cross. the funny thing is you didn't say anything about guilt issue I mentioned in post #85. OR the definition of deception I mentioned in post #69.

see what you're doing. you're trying to move quickly when you can't answer those. I mean ... really! ... you think we all can't see that.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

user_zero said:


> you got me wrong.
> blame-shifting happens through redirection. I wasn't talking about your marriage or any marriage. I was talking about what you're doing right now. we are talking about your situation , your post , your ideas , your reasoning and YOU are trying to REDIRECT the FOCUS of DESCUSSION toward someone else's life.
> 
> I hope this time I could get my point cross. the funny thing is you didn't say anything about guilt issue I mentioned in post #85. OR the definition of deception I mentioned in post #69.
> ...


Well, you haven't answered all my questions. Can the same apply to you?

Or perhaps you are too busy.

But really most of the people here are simply leveling accusations, they are not really asking relevant valuable questions. 

Again, I will ask. Have you ever asked your wife what was missing in the marriage that caused her to cheat?

When she answered, did you accept responsibility, or did you accuse her of blameshifting, thereby shutting down communication?

If you don't want to answer for me, at least answer it for yourself.

BTW: In good communication, intelligent people ask clarifying questions. 

Good communication is give and take. 

Did you also accuse your wife of redirecting each time she asked a relevant valid question?


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## user_zero (Aug 30, 2013)

remorseful strayer said:


> Well, you haven't answered all my questions. Can the same apply to you?
> 
> Or perhaps you are too busy.
> 
> ...


I'M NOT A BS. I'M NOT MARRIED.
have you read my post completely?


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

You still seem to be avoiding answering me so I thought I'd ask again.

So once again I ask you. You had no other options other than to have an affair? Why didn't you address your marital issues in another way?

You said your wife is working on her issues related to sex in the marriage. What issues are you working on? Are you in counseling to discover the root cause of why your boundaries were so weak? Have you had any breakthroughs into why you could betray the one that you promised to love forever?


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## user_zero (Aug 30, 2013)

remorseful strayer said:


> Well, you haven't answered all my questions. Can the same apply to you?
> 
> Or perhaps you are too busy.
> 
> ...


I'm not accusing. I'm point it to you. it's obvious dude. and btw other people is seeing same thing. it's not just me. don't you think when several different people are seeing the same thing in your post, maybe it is really there. you are so full of yourself. I'm not believing that I'm wasting time on someone like you.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

user_zero said:


> I'M NOT A BS. I'M NOT MARRIED.
> have you read my post completely?


Then what the heck are you doing on this forum?

BTW: Stop shouting.


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## user_zero (Aug 30, 2013)

remorseful strayer said:


> Then what the heck are you doing on this forum?
> 
> BTW: Stop shouting.


me, helping people. you can ask others. 

what about you? you say , you've changed, you're remorseful. so why are you here? are you helping people , too? 

please answer bfree questions.
I'm really curious.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

user_zero said:


> and btw other people is seeing same thing. it's not just me.


Are you so insecure that you can not have a discussion without needing to bolster your argument by dragging other people into your personal conversations. 



> don't you think when several different people are seeing the same thing in your post, maybe it is really there.


Maybe and maybe they are just a bunch of people who refuse to see their own faults. When someone points out a legitimate fault they scream wah wha wah.......you are blameshifting. 



> you are so full of yourself. I'm not believing that I'm wasting time on someone like you.


If you feel you are wasting your time, than trust your reality my friend. I don't deign to know another's true reality. I only know my own. 

Do you claim to know mine?


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## user_zero (Aug 30, 2013)

bfree said:


> You still seem to be avoiding answering me so I thought I'd ask again.
> 
> So once again I ask you. You had no other options other than to have an affair? Why didn't you address your marital issues in another way?
> 
> You said your wife is working on her issues related to sex in the marriage. What issues are you working on? Are you in counseling to discover the root cause of why your boundaries were so weak? Have you had any breakthroughs into why you could betray the one that you promised to love forever?


remorseful_strayer,

answer these question...... please enlighten us.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

To the poster just above me, Just cuz you ain't married---doesn't mean you haven't been betrayed---as in relationship!!!!

Hey remorseful---I think I read you to say---for 10 yrs, the physical was pretty much gone from your mge----why wouldn't you at some point in time, get in your wife's face, and force her to change, or demand D-------why was it necessary to get some woman to spread her legs for you

And yes you are lying by OMMISSION---if you are cheating, coming home every night saying everything is fine---when you are in an A---Your wife deserves to know, that her H is cheating, and vice versa

One other point, and I am sure, this will get feedback both ways---IT IS THE BETRAYED'S SPOUSE THAT IS RESPONSIBLE---that is who the betrayed has a "beef" with---not the AP------they are lowlife scum---but it is the cheating spouse that is responsible for the well being of the mge he/she is involved in


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## user_zero (Aug 30, 2013)

jnj express said:


> To the poster just above me, Just cuz you ain't married---doesn't mean you haven't been betrayed---as in relationship!!!!
> 
> Hey remorseful---I think I read you to say---for 10 yrs, the physical was pretty much gone from your mge----why wouldn't you at some point in time, get in your wife's face, and force her to change, or demand D-------why was it necessary to get some woman to spread her legs for you
> 
> ...


please read again , before you post something,

I said : I'm not a BS which means I was never betrayed in any relationship. that covers it all right?

I said : I'm not married , because he asked me (several times) about my wife's opinion.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Well yeah but what does your wife have to say about that. ;-)


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## user_zero (Aug 30, 2013)

bfree said:


> Well yeah but what does your wife have to say about that. ;-)


I'll ask her (in the future). please wish me good luck on that. I think before asking her , I should clear the whole block of anything that can be used as weapon. .... hmmmm..... it's hard, but I'm sure I can do that. I just need a plan.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

My wife used to leave or go to another room when I'd bring up certain issues and one
Of those was lack of sex and intimacy,so the communication sucked.
She would'nt listen and I could have found a better way or tried harder to talk to her.
It was on both of us.
To go outside the marriage is cruel,there are many victims when an affair happens,
not just the spouses,plenty of people are dragged into the crap and have no choice.
The filing of a D can bring a spouse around,counseling,any damn thing but cheating.
To live a double life is a lie,to blame the AP because they promise they only want sex
Is not only stupid but also setting yourself up as well.
There is no justification to cheat.
None.
It shows you only care about yourself.
There is always another choice,I'd take the choice that doesn't pull others into the
hurt.
Giving a token couple tries to fix your marriage and then saying to yourself "well I did all I could"
Is a damn cop out.
Surprising someone with a gift that you've been hiding is great.
Surprising someone with an affair you've been having is a lie and a damn painful one.
Guess I should have named this thread pretending to be remorseful.
Oh well.
Carry on gentlemen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## user_zero (Aug 30, 2013)

bfree said:


> Well yeah but what does your wife have to say about that. ;-)


bfree , I just read remorseful_strayer biography. he had a very nice life. now I understand why he hasn't any guilt. just read it yourself. how can someone live with the guilt so many wronged choices. I know , I can't. and btw he claims to be a psychiatric. if he is really , it's obvious why he is so good at this game. calling people insecure , too busy (trying to guilt them , anger them), changing the focus of discussion, amazing pro blame shifting. I'm just sad that he isn't using his skills and knowledge on doing something good. it's just sad.


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## user_zero (Aug 30, 2013)

calvin said:


> My wife used to leave or go to another room when I'd bring up certain issues and one
> Of those was lack of sex and intimacy,so the communication sucked.
> She would'nt listen and I could have found a better way or tried harder to talk to her.
> It was on both of us.
> ...


every time I posted on this thread I was thinking 'Calvin going to kill me, I messed up his thread'. I'm very sorry, man. I just sometimes see some strange character and I can't control myself . it's who I am.  you shouldn't told me "to post anyway". you should know better. it's actually your fault 
no this isn't blame shifting , I swear. what ? why should you believe it? well, because I said so.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

user_zero said:


> every time I posted on this thread I was thinking 'Calvin going to kill me, I messed up his thread'. I'm very sorry, man. I just sometimes see some strange character and I can't control myself . it's who I am.  you shouldn't told me "to post anyway". you should know better. it's actually your fault
> no this isn't blame shifting , I swear. what ? why should you believe it? well, because I said so.


 Post away!
Its all good,I still have bad moments but for the most part I'm dong pretty good.
We both worked on ourselves pretty hard with the help of some fine people here
at Tams.
I learned a lot,so has Mrs.C.
Hell,we're still learning,that's good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

"Betrayed Husbands and Betrayed Spouses! Cheaters of all ages! TAM and the CWI section are proud to present to you...

...THE GREATEST THREADJACK ON EARTH!!!!!!!"


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

*Re: Re: Examples of a truely remorseful spouse.*



user_zero said:


> bfree , I just read remorseful_strayer biography. he had a very nice life. now I understand why he hasn't any guilt. just read it yourself. how can someone live with the guilt so many wronged choices. I know , I can't. and btw he claims to be a psychiatric. if he is really , it's obvious why he is so good at this game. calling people insecure , too busy (trying to guilt them , anger them), changing the focus of discussion, amazing pro blame shifting. I'm just sad that he isn't using his skills and knowledge on doing something good. it's just sad.


If he is a psychiatrist then all I can say is

Physician....heal thyself


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

*Re: Re: Examples of a truely remorseful spouse.*



F-102 said:


> "Betrayed Husbands and Betrayed Spouses! Cheaters of all ages! TAM and the CWI section are proud to present to you...
> 
> ...THE GREATEST THREADJACK ON EARTH!!!!!!!"


Well we did have Calvin's permission.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

bfree said:


> Well we did have Calvin's permission.


Yeah,you do.


Its interesting to see different views from different people on every issue involving
Infidelty.
I did hear some positive examples and some justificatons from some who feel they
were right in what they did.
Myself?
I see plenty of true remorse from my wife and I'm at the best place I've been in 
twenty months,I let it go pretty much,I don't see any reason to do guard duty 24/7.
Sometimes it hits me but its more of light slap than a full force punch in the face.
I would'nt be where I'm at now wthout my wife being true.
The irony is still there but I know I did the rght thing.
Ok,back to the thread jack,have at it. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

Interesting...ok so there is someone with remorseful in their name who is saying his wife shouldn't have trusted him, so it is her fault? Am I really reading this or am I in the twilight zone. So his wife is working on the marriage now since it was all her fault...hmmm and yeah so she should be fine with beijg betrayed and forgive you so quickly for your cheating because she shouldn't have trusted you and she neglected you...ok. Well yes my BS has his faults that he has been working on as I do. Why is the your wife the one feeling remorseful when you are the one that was cheating? Oh well nevermind. I'm tired.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

CantSitStill said:


> Interesting...ok so there is someone with remorseful in their name who is saying his wife shouldn't have trusted him, so it is her fault? Am I really reading this or am I in the twilight zone. So his wife is working on the marriage now since it was all her fault...hmmm and yeah so she should be fine with beijg betrayed and forgive you so quickly for your cheating because she shouldn't have trusted you and she neglected you...ok. Well yes my BS has his faults that he has been working on as I do. Why is the your wife the one feeling remorseful when you are the one that was cheating? Oh well nevermind. I'm tired.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 I'm reporting you for thread jacking CSS, I've had it with you!

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

In his case, his wife wronged him, so she forced him to wrong her back,, two wrongs, making it right
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

russell28 said:


> In his case, his wife wronged him, so she forced him to wrong her back,, two wrongs, making it right
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah....kinda sad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

russell28 said:


> Many times the BS, trying to 'control', the WS, is trying to control things they can't see or hear or feel.. they know there are obstacles, and they know there are things missing, but they are not sure what those things are. When they sense these things are missing, they get insecure, and justifiably so. The subconcious knows that the partner is no longer invested, so when the BS sees the WS flirting, or wearing provocative clothing for example, they might get jealous because they are aware that this attention to grooming is not for them, it's for others. They over react by trying to get the partner to control the flirting, or provacative dress.. and it's taken as them being controlling, when in fact if the WS was giving the BS some attention, making them feel loved and special, they jealousy and need to 'control' them would go away, and they could feel wanted and loved instead of confused and angry. I'm talking about behaviors even before the affair.
> 
> So while every BS isn't perfect, and I'm sure some are controlling.. it seems that a common theme when a wayward spouse is busted is that they say the BS was controlling. They also can say they are needy. What I'm saying, is these attributes in the case of someone that's cheating, can many times be a direct byproduct of the affair. Affairs are abusive. The WS is withholding love, affection, attention, time, honor, respect, concern for the BS and giving all those things to another. The BS picks up on these things.. The mind compensates..
> 
> ...


Could be both things, and/or both of you being controlling. I think only the two people in the relationship/marriage can say whether or not one partner is more controlling. I guess sometimes it's obvious to other people, too, depending on how many areas of the person's life are affected by the need to control. I know there are times when the wayward says, "Stop trying to control me!" to the betrayed partner, or tries to control the betrayed partner. I think this comes down to a power struggle that was in the making long before infidelity entered the picture. It could originate with the WS, the BS, or both.

It's not always just the WS trying to make the BS jealous or doing things to make them feel insecure and unloved. In my situation, GF deliberately tried to make me jealous by pointing out everyone she had ever liked or dated, going out to dinner with an idolized ex, repeatedly talking to him in the middle of the night where I couldn't hear, and so on. Then she would ask, "Are you jealous??" (Or in the case of the late night phone calls, she would just get angry that I told her it upset me.) I hated feeling like she was trying to manipulate my feelings. This behavior started pretty early on (not the talking to the ex - the other stuff), and no amount of love or attention from me made her feel loved and secure (this is more about things she's dealing with internally than anything else, I think). I was also begging her for emotional intimacy for years, so it was less a two-way street and more a one-way since she didn't feel "comfortable" with emoting. I was just supposed to know that she loved me. Obviously, I did things to try to get her attention, too. Neither one of us was innocent of trying to make the other jealous.

If you would have asked me before I cheated on GF if she was controlling, I would have told you then that she was, as she would have said I was. We both feel a need for control in certain areas (which we're working on). This is about who we are as people, ultimately, not about events which happened later in our relationship. 

Things get tricky when you try to point fingers with regard to who was withholding in reaction to whom. I did not withhold from GF until later, when I was desperate, and I didn't even realize I was doing it until many conversations after the fact. From my perspective, I ended up having EAs in an effort to fill an emotional void for the purpose of survival. She didn't deserve it, of course, and I didn't mean to do it, but it was what I knew. Would a healthier person have done that? Probably not. And of course it was wrong. But it was how I reacted to the perceived withdrawal/lack of investment on GF's part. I loved her, but I did not feel safe or cared for in certain ways in return. I doubted her feelings. And yes, I should have had THE TALK with her, but a lot of this stuff wasn't fully realized until later. I was just struggling to cope, and I couldn't imagine leaving her - never even considered it back then. I would just ask her for reassurance in the ways I could perceive, and she would get angry at me or refuse (she was the one saying that _I_ was needy). I would react by reaching a little more towards whoever was closest, thinking I was just compensating with friendships like other people do. I had begun to think I was asking too much of her, that I had some crazy needs, and that I needed to just get some of those needs met via others. I'd just lean more heavily on my friends to spare GF the burden of me. I realized later that I had crossed lines and was in the middle of a minefield, far away from GF. 

And affairs are abusive, definitely. GF and I have been abusing each other in various ways for years without meaning to. We are both stubborn, and were lost for a long time, but I think we're finally getting the whole "how to have a healthy, surviving relationship" thing. We are healing.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

Yikes, this thread got a little heated!  RS, lying by omission - a very slippery slope, and easy to do if you are often trying to avoid conflicts or keep things pleasant. If it's habitual, it escalates over time from small things to larger things. I realized I did a lot of lying by omission.  It's just as bad as lying outright, but it _sounds_ less ugly, huh?


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

CantSitStill said:


> Interesting...ok so there is someone with remorseful in their name who is saying his wife shouldn't have trusted him, so it is her fault? Am I really reading this or am I in the twilight zone. So his wife is working on the marriage now since it was all her fault...hmmm and yeah so she should be fine with beijg betrayed and forgive you so quickly for your cheating because she shouldn't have trusted you and she neglected you...ok. Well yes my BS has his faults that he has been working on as I do. Why is the your wife the one feeling remorseful when you are the one that was cheating? Oh well nevermind. I'm tired.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


See that's exactly what I was trying to get him to talk about. Unfortunately he tried deflecting me away from getting into his issues by accusing me of attacking him. BTW, another avoidance tactic by someone who seems to demonstrate a severe avoidance issue.

He claims his wife wouldn't have sex with him for 10 years. If that is his reason for having an affair it shows a serious lack of character depth. Between my first and second marriages I had tons of sex with many different women. But it was all shallow. There was no feeling behind the act. It wasn't until I met and married my wife that sex became something special. There was now an emotional connection and an unspoken bond between us that transformed the act of sex into making love. His wife might increase her availability for sex. She might discover the real reason behind why she stopped having sex with him. A mid life crisis for 10 years sounds rather unlikely. But at least she is in therapy to uncover the reasons why she felt disconnected.

But RS had the affair. If she is going to justify his affair by claiming it was due to lack of sex then that puts his wife in a very difficult position. What if she gets sick and doesn't feel like having sex? What if she has a serious illness or injury? Does that give RS the go ahead to find another woman who is physically capable of sexual intercourse? And let's say she continues to have sex with RS. Is it going to be shallow meaningless sex for her because he broken the emotional connection/trust by having an affair? So long as RS does not address the reasons he was able to have an affair and betray his wife she will never be able to truly trust him and the emotional connection that makes sex so wonderful in a LTS will never return. And that's not only sad but unnecessary. I'll also add that RS demonstrates perfectly an example of a spouse that is not remorseful. See how I got the thread back on track calvin?


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

I was thinking exactly that bfree.. that the thread never really got off topic, because RS came here to show exactly what a remorseful spouse does NOT look like. A remorseful spouse does feel guilt, and shame, and does admit that they made bad choices because of selfishness, not because of something someone else did to them or didn't do for them. They finally realize there were other options than to sneak off to find comfort in the arms of another.


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

.....I've read through this whole thread ...and seen the numerous examples of what the WS has done / is doing to help the BS.

....and given the severity of their actions ...I'd say that every bit of what they do / can do ....is owed to the BS.

....my wife had a ONS +18 yrs ago ...we went into reconciliation right away (a mistake on my part I realized many yrs later). She 'came clean" and told me what happened without any prodding from me. But when she did tell me ...there was no sobbing, tearful apology, begging for forgiveness ....or any other actions that may make a difference to the BS (at this point, I don't know if it would have mattered back then).

....but ...earlier this year ...things came up regarding her ONS ...and information came out that was contrary to what I was originally told ...and the wound was again opened up as fresh as ever ...and the pain started-in at full bore pace all over again. 

....in therapy ...this has been discussed by me repeatedly (_seemingly her lack of sincere remorse ...then ...and now_) ...and the answers I get from her are, _"It was so long ago ....I don't remember 'details" ....it's a blur .....what do you want me to do now"._ The therapist, in my individual sessions ...has indicated to me that I can't tell my wife that she, "isn't sorry or remorseful" ...because she (therapist) indicated to me (from her sessions with my wife) ....that she is deeply sorry that she has caused me this ongoing pain ...and is very ashamed of her actions. But ...she also doesn't want it all dredged up again this many years later. 

...when we discuss this in therapy, and outside too, her, _"What do you want me to do now"_ answer ...is an honest question from her. She's honestly asking me ...what can I do? ...what do I need her to do? ...what do I want her to do? ....in order for me to feel better.

....but, does she even have the "right" to ask that of me? Am I supposed to tell her how to act? To me ...that's like writing down an apology that you want someone else to express back to you .... honest thought about what she did, and sincerity is pretty much non-existent. It's to the point these many years later ...that I don't even know where to start if I was to tell her what I needed to hear, or to have her act in a certain manner. My brain is numb when it comes to that. Yet, I know that (and this sounds bad) ...I want her to hurt. I've been changed SO much as a person by her actions ...that I know I'm so much less than I could have become. And ...I also feel that, had she verbally expressed continued remorse ...or actions that also signaled her expressions of being sorry ...that I'm sure that I would have eventually told her, _"Okay ...enough already ...it's in the past"_

...it almost seems like the situation where a kid does something wrong ...the parent tells them to apologize ...the kid refuses ...and then finally gives in and grudgingly says in a nanosecond .."I sorry" .....just to get it over with. The parent gets what they want ...the kid does too ...but at its core, the action is shallow and meaningless.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

> why wouldn't you at some point in time, get in your wife's face, and force her to change, or demand D-------why was it necessary to get some woman to spread her legs for you


Why would you assume that I didn't do just that. I didn't get in her face because I don't think that is a good communication style. 

I tried many things, asked for counseling, sex therapy, ruled out physical issues, etc. I coud write a book but I don't care to 

BTW: It wasn't necessary for me to "get some woman to spread her legs" .... My affair partner told me she specifically targeted my wife as a friend so she could get close to me. 

The AP then, pushed and pushed and pushed for sex. Her legs were already gaping wide open. I didn't have to get her to do anything. She was the pursuer.

Still my fault for taking the bait. But I assure you, her legs were already wide open and I was the first one who met her financial criteria who was stupid enough to believe her phoney claim that all she wanted was an affair.


----------



## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

CantSitStill said:


> Interesting...ok so there is someone with remorseful in their name who is saying his wife shouldn't have trusted him, so it is her fault? Am I really reading this or am I in the twilight zone. So his wife is working on the marriage now since it was all her fault...hmmm and yeah so she should be fine with beijg betrayed and forgive you so quickly for your cheating because she shouldn't have trusted you and she neglected you...ok. Well yes my BS has his faults that he has been working on as I do. Why is the your wife the one feeling remorseful when you are the one that was cheating? Oh well nevermind. I'm tired.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You must be in the twilight zone because if that's you're referring to me and that's your interpretation of what I said. It's wrong. 

But I really love to read these supposedly loyal spouses with all their anger at their disloyal spouse. 

Are there really perfect humans out there? Did your disloyal spouse have absolutely no complaints about you? Do you believe that? 

I would love to be a fly on the wall in their marriage. 

But these types of threads and comments form angry spouses who claim to be totally blameless and all fault is on their disloyal spouse really tells me almost as much or maybe more than I would learn if I had a recorder under their beds.


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## user_zero (Aug 30, 2013)

CantSitStill said:


> Interesting...ok so there is someone with remorseful in their name who is saying his wife shouldn't have trusted him, so it is her fault? Am I really reading this or am I in the twilight zone. So his wife is working on the marriage now since it was all her fault...hmmm and yeah so she should be fine with beijg betrayed and forgive you so quickly for your cheating because she shouldn't have trusted you and she neglected you...ok. Well yes my BS has his faults that he has been working on as I do. Why is the your wife the one feeling remorseful when you are the one that was cheating? Oh well nevermind. I'm tired.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


apparently , we all are in the twilight zone at the same time and on the same subject. of course , except remorseful_strayer  . he is the only one who has a clear view on things.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

*Re: Re: Examples of a truely remorseful spouse.*



remorseful strayer said:


> You must be in the twilight zone because if that's you're referring to me and that's your interpretation of what I said. It's wrong.
> 
> But I really love to read these supposedly loyal spouses with all their anger at their disloyal spouse.
> 
> ...


You do realize that CSS is a former wayward right? She knows from whence she speaks. And don't even think of questioning her character. She's a danged fine person and unlike some she is truly remorseful.

Btw, I notice you still haven't answered any questions yet you feel obligated to defend yourself by demeaning those that have been betrayed. Not exactly bolstering your credibility.


----------



## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

bfree said:


> You do realize that CSS is a former wayward right? She knows from whence she speaks. And don't even think of questioning her character. She's a danged fine person and unlike some she is truly remorseful.


And you know she's a fine person who is a good spouse based on message board posts?

Even if you are her neighbor, you know she is a good spouse because she told you so, and you believe her without knowing what goes on behind closed doors?:scratchhead:



> Btw, I notice you still haven't answered any questions yet you feel obligated to defend yourself by demeaning those that have been betrayed. Not exactly bolstering your credibility.


I am not concerned about what you or any other people here think of my credibility. Why would you think I care. 

But have fun, I am done with this thread.  Although, it certainly has been amusing and enlightening.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

HS, both my long-term therapists said this to me and my partner in our joint sessions: Don't expect someone to read your mind. You have to tell your partner what you expect, want, and need from them. We were both hung up on that idea that it didn't mean as much if we had to tell each other, but it's just good communication. Sometimes our partners are weak in areas in which we are strong, and vice versa. When we help each other meet those needs, we help the relationship.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

remorseful strayer said:


> You must be in the twilight zone because if that's you're referring to me and that's your interpretation of what I said. It's wrong.
> 
> But I really love to read these supposedly loyal spouses with all their anger at their disloyal spouse.
> 
> ...


Nobody claimed to be perfect, or blameless for problems in the marriage. Don't pull crap out of your buttocks unless you can back it up with some examples.. spare us the drama please.

There's a difference between problems in a marriage, and an affair.

By cheating, you chose to break your vows. You didn't inform your wife that it was okay for her to get a new boyfriend, since you had a new mate on the side. No matter how you spin it, that's wrong. 

You change the subject and try to push peoples buttons by calling them angry and saying you're triggering them. Weak attempts, and pretty transparent.

You deflect and don't answer questions. Why? Because you don't want to know the answers to those questions.. you want to keep fooling yourself into thinking you did nothing wrong. Instead of being a man, and owning it. Own it.. stop putting it on your wife. She didn't make you cheat, you chose to. Your AP didn't force you to say 'sure okay', you did that on your own.

If you want to be a truly remorseful spouse, you should start by being honest with yourself. It's been a long time.



...

So sad that you're taking your ball and going home. That's the mature thing to do, cover your ears and hum loudly.. you might not have to hear the truth. Good luck with that head in the sand approach to life.


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## user_zero (Aug 30, 2013)

remorseful strayer said:


> And you know she's a fine person who is a good spouse based on message board posts?
> 
> Even if you are her neighbor, you know she is a good spouse because she told you so, and you believe her without knowing what goes on behind closed doors?:scratchhead:
> 
> ...


wow, you're such a mature , responsible , super-mega wise person. it seems people don't agree with you on other threads too! I wonder why ... :scratchhead: hmmmm ... maybe they are in twilight zone , too !  :rofl:

btw , you didn't answer bfree questions 

PS: I wish there was a dislike button on this forum.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

russell28 said:


> A remorseful spouse does feel guilt, and shame, and does admit that they made bad choices because of selfishness, not because of something someone else did to them or didn't do for them. They finally realize there were other options than to sneak off to find comfort in the arms of another.


Exactly. No amount of relationship badness justifies cheating. We (remorseful) waywards can try to explain what occurred in our minds and hearts at the time of such betrayal, including cataloging and working to repair internal defects, or how we reacted to certain situations....but it's just exploration and psyche digging. It (possibly) helps the wayward and their betrayed partner understand what went wrong in the wayward. Nothing more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

remorseful strayer said:


> And you know she's a fine person who is a good spouse based on message board posts?
> 
> Even if you are her neighbor, you know she is a good spouse because she told you so, and you believe her without knowing what goes on behind closed doors?:scratchhead:
> 
> ...


No,I can tell you she's a good spouse who is truely sorry for what she did.
I don't hear excuses from her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

Russel and others:

There has been talk of hijacking this thread, and really I don't want anyone to get banned for being obnoxious and rude. 

Feel free to PM me russel if you want to discuss this in depth. 

I offered healer that option but he wants to be a public nuisance and continue to hijack threads. I don't.

PM me, to carry on this discussion, if you dare, rather than hijacking this or other threads as healer has tried to do, even though invited to PM me.

Of course I realize that it's a lot easier to accuse people of deflecting rather than discussing, particularly when they feel as if they are on the losing end of a discussion. That's common. 

I look forward to hearing from you, but somehow I don't think you want me to show you your reflection. You want to keep the image you see in your magical mirror. 



russell28 said:


> Nobody claimed to be perfect, or blameless for problems in the marriage. Don't pull crap out of your buttocks unless you can back it up with some examples.. spare us the drama please.
> 
> There's a difference between problems in a marriage, and an affair.
> 
> ...


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## user_zero (Aug 30, 2013)

double post


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## user_zero (Aug 30, 2013)

remorseful strayer said:


> Russel and others:
> 
> There has been talk of hijacking this thread, and really I don't want anyone to get banned for being obnoxious and rude.
> 
> ...


russell28, my advice to you as a friend is to not PM this guy. he did this act (inviting people to debate) on other threads , too. he is one of those people that like to put people down. but it seems he can't handle crowd. focusing on one person is much more easier , right? 

please , don't waste your precious time and energy. it doesn't worth it.

PS : you can see that even in this post , he is threatening people (in directly) with getting banned. this is not mature person , who is looking for anything good.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Calvin, this has been an interesting thread. I noticed that the title is "Examples of a truly remorseful spouse." Interestingly, enough, it was not "Examples of a truly remorseful _wayward_ spouse." I wonder if that was a Freudian slip on your part or, perhaps, divine intervention!  I'm going to assume the later and, with your permission, I would like to "share" some very personal emails that B1 and I have written to one another over the last several months. In a very poignant way, I think that they tie in with the "argument" that has been recurring throughout this thread. Because, you see, in marriages that were, genuinely, deeply troubled and dysfunctional, prior to infidelity, remorse might truly be necessary, from both spouses, in order for a healthy, happy, and lasting reconciliation to occur.

If you think that would be a thread jack and not a subject that you would like to address just say the word and I will not post the emails. Just let me know. Infidelity is a subject that would be impossible to discuss without strong emotions, particularly, if you've been, personally, affected by it. I think that people, often, have a difficult time articulating their point and that it can lead to unnecessary confusion, bitterness and hurt feelings.

In the emails that B1 and I have sent to each other, you will see a clear example of two people who have both hurt one other and who are both genuinely remorseful and want nothing more than to help the other heal and to build a happy, healthy and strong marriage.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

I hope Calvin says yes! I would love to read them. You and B1 are an inspiration and an encouragement. I deeply admire and respect both of you.  Always good stuff to share, too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Have at it EI.
Everyone grab some popcorn and a six pack.....make it a twelve!


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Yes EI I should have put wayward in the title.
We're doing good I was just curious how other WS showed true remorse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

remorseful strayer said:


> Russel and others:
> 
> There has been talk of hijacking this thread, and really I don't want anyone to get banned for being obnoxious and rude.
> 
> ...


It's on topic, no need to hide in a PM.. You can play your games right here in public, dancing around like a clown not answering questions... talking about magic mirrors, and daring people to PM you like a five year old. Healer is obviously on to your antics.. and doesn't want a private clown show.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

I wish GF would come onto TAM sometimes! I'll have to ask her about this thread of yours, Calvin, see if she wants to say anything. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

user_zero said:


> russell28, my advice to you as a friend is to not PM this guy. he did this act (inviting people to debate) on other threads , too. he is one of those people that like to put people down. but it seems he can't handle crowd. focusing on one person is much more easier , right?
> 
> please , don't waste your precious time and energy. it doesn't worth it.
> 
> PS : you can see that even in this post , he is threatening people (in directly) with getting banned. this is not mature person , who is looking for anything good.


Yea, not worth the added keystrokes...

I could get into some deep conversations about why his wife wouldn't want to have sex with him for 10 years, what he did to cause that... then he can call me angry (one trick pony)... repeat... 

I'll pass thanks..


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey Hurtin Still----------------Yes 18 yrs later is tuff to deal with----------------But

if YOU ARE GETTING MORE INFO, AND SHE WAS KEEPING THINGS FROM YOU FOR 18 YRS, AS HAS ALREADY BEEN DISCUSSED---YOUR WIFE IS LYING BY omission---SO FOR 18 YRS, SHE HAS CONTINUED HER CHEATING, for that's what lying by omission is.----You need to be very vocal with your therapist on that point---and do not let your therapist, control you or your situation----Obviously what ever your wife said stirred up the pot

As to what your wife remembers---YOU DA*N WELL BETTER BELIEVE SHE REMEMBERS EVERY TINY MOMENT OF HER ONS---those are the things that never leave the memory---so your wife is full of sh*t-----but again---18 yrs later---what do you want her to do

How has she been these last 18 yrs---has she done ALL THE HEAVY LIFTING---to make the mge., work, and help you to get thru your pain and misery

If you are gonna be in misery in the future---and you now cannot tolerate this so called wife of yours---there are things you can do----your future life is on you---and it depends on how you wanna spend that future---happy or in misery

One other thing ---as to control----there are very controlling spouses, whose control borders on abuse---that needs to be dealt with---then there are spouses who can see by actions/events/activities---that their spouse is headed in the wrong way---and they do what they think they must to try and keep the mge afloat---that is not controlling---THAT IS FIGHTING FOR THE MGE.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

soulpotato said:


> I wish GF would come onto TAM sometimes! I'll have to ask her about this thread of yours, Calvin, see if she wants to say anything.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Invite her,ya never know.
I kinda started this thread on a whim after seeng M&M's thread.
Even when me and CSS were only a couple years into our marriage I went through
a lot of dry spells with her,we loved the hell out of eachother,still do.
I don't think she care for sex all that much t be honest.
I have had chances to get a fvck buddy or just a sexual relationship with no strings but
It never seemed right so I did'nt.
Too many people get hurt,what would my parents think of me?
The list goes on
I've heard CSS talking to herself and shaking her head and saying things like
"What was I thinking? I could have lost him!"
I know CSS could have taken it physical,maybe that was one boundry she would'nt cross.
If she would have I don't think we could have R'd but I really don't know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

calvin said:


> Have at it EI.
> Everyone grab some popcorn and a six pack.....make it a twelve!
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Don't pop the popcorn, yet. I'll have to do some copying and pasting and I'll need to edit out our names and a few other details for privacy. But, I won't edit any of the raw content of two hearts that were broken, but are now healing. 

I just got a phone call from our daughter. She got called in to work. I'll have to watch G-Baby for a couple of hours until son-in-law gets off work. It's a horrible job (watching the kid,) but someone has to do it!  

I'll start posting a few of the emails this evening. It'll give you time....... to get a keg..... :rofl: This is waaaaaay bigger than a 6 or 12 pack!  LOL


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

EI said:


> Don't pop the popcorn, yet. I'll have to do some copying and pasting and I'll need to edit out our names and a few other details for privacy. But, I won't edit any of the raw content of two hearts that were broken, but are now healing.
> 
> I just got a phone call from our daughter. She got called in to work. I'll have to watch G-Baby for a couple of hours until son-in-law gets off work. It's a horrible job (watching the kid,) but someone has to do it!
> 
> I'll start posting a few of the emails this evening. It'll give you time....... to get a keg..... :rofl: This is waaaaaay bigger than a 6 or 12 pack!  LOL


Gonna order a pie while I'm at it,watch the movie Titanic,read a Stephen King novel.
;-)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

jnj express said:


> Hey Hurtin Still----------------Yes 18 yrs later is tuff to deal with----------------But
> 
> if YOU ARE GETTING MORE INFO, AND SHE WAS KEEPING THINGS FROM YOU FOR 18 YRS, AS HAS ALREADY BEEN DISCUSSED---YOUR WIFE IS LYING BY omission---SO FOR 18 YRS, SHE HAS CONTINUED HER CHEATING, for that's what lying by omission is.----You need to be very vocal with your therapist on that point---and do not let your therapist, control you or your situation----Obviously what ever your wife said stirred up the pot
> 
> ...



....for the most part ...she's been a good wife since then. The "heavy lifting" as defined now ....the basics ...never happened from her. There were no NC letters, passwords shared, etc..... mind you ...this happened before cell phones, internet ...(social media) etc.

....but ..back then she told me that this guy wanted to see her again ...and she called him to say ..._"no more ....mistake was made ....I'm going to go back to fix my marriage"_. Wife told me this year ...that there was no contact whatsoever after that night, no call to /from him.

....she told me she met him in a local bar. I agonized every time I drove past that place .....only to find out this year that she met him at some other bar .....which I also drive by at least once a week ...and now have a completely new thing to trigger about (even though the bar is gone and a new occupancy has taken it's place)

....to this day ...she refuses to tell me who he was ...where he lived (although she says it was in the next town ...which of course I trigger about when I just hear the name or drive through it). She says she won't say ...to protect me ...because she doesn't want me to hunt him down.

....she of course ...when questioned about "the details" (the sex) ...she remembers nothing and says, "what does it matter now ....the only time I think of it is when you bring it up". (she's the only girl/woman I've ever 'been" with ....so I find it impossible to believe that she'd not have burned in her head memories of the only other guy that she's 'been' with)

....the therapist told me that she's (wife) incredibly ashamed of what she did ...yet ...that gut spilling remorse filled sob-fest never came forth from her ...ever ...not 18 yrs ago ...not now. I think if it was made known to me each day (or ...some regularly frequent interval) that she was sorry ...knows that I hurt ...and am emotionally 'damaged" ..that I'd have 'healed' better. I'm not ...by any means a 'saint' ...I can be a pretty difficult SOB sometimes. But the fact that I'm still around after all that was placed upon me ....I think ...deserves some form of understanding from her. I don't want a gold star on my collar ...but ...I also don't want to be seen as a schmuck. 

....I know that it's "18 yrs later" ....but my ego / self-esteem is still not what it should have been as a result of her actions. I don't think, however, after finding out the new details / info ...that it's too much to expect some form of sincere remorse from her.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

*Re: Re: Examples of a truely remorseful spouse.*



remorseful strayer said:


> And you know she's a fine person who is a good spouse based on message board posts?
> 
> Even if you are her neighbor, you know she is a good spouse because she told you so, and you believe her without knowing what goes on behind closed doors?:scratchhead:
> 
> ...


You continually hounded me to answer your questions and I did. Now you decline to answer mine because....? If you don't want to have a polite discourse or a debate then why are you here on a message board in the first place? I think it is better that you bow out as you really aren't adding anything of substance to the conversation. Please come back when you have something to contribute. As for CSS, I know she is a good person because if for no other reason than she is here to help people which is more than I can say of you. Besides, Calvin likes her so she's good with me.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

I agree. I think CSS is a good person, too, and wants to be the best wife possible to Calvin. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

soulpotato said:


> I agree. I think CSS is a good person, too, and wants to be the best wife possible to Calvin.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


CSS is a very sweet and giving person,she's a classy lady.
She's my lady.
She's disgusted with herself over the A and it shocked the hell out of me.
That was just not her nature at ALL.
Every corner I turn I see remorse from her,it was so unlike her to do what she did.
It wasn't easy but she deserved a chance,I'd hate my self if I did'nt give us this chance and I 
Have no regrets.
None.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

russell28 said:


> I see you're still lying to yourself.
> 
> You were NOT being honest, even if she never asked you..
> 
> ...


He was lying. *To himself.*

You know something, I realise that there was a time when* I *was lying to myself. I think all cheaters do. Lie to themselves, I mean. Lying to the spouse is something incidental that comes after lying to yourself.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> He was lying. *To himself.*
> 
> You know something, I realise that there was a time when* I *was lying to myself. I think all cheaters do. Lie to themselves, I mean. Lying to the spouse is something incidental that comes after lying to yourself.


I think you're right about that M&M.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Hurtin_Still said:


> ....for the most part ...she's been a good wife since then. The "heavy lifting" as defined now ....the basics ...never happened from her. There were no NC letters, passwords shared, etc..... mind you ...this happened before cell phones, internet ...(social media) etc.
> 
> ....but ..back then she told me that this guy wanted to see her again ...and she called him to say ..._"no more ....mistake was made ....I'm going to go back to fix my marriage"_. Wife told me this year ...that there was no contact whatsoever after that night, no call to /from him.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

Been there, done that. Got the t-shirt.
And here it is


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

calvin said:


> Invite her,ya never know.
> I kinda started this thread on a whim after seeng M&M's thread.


I actually have invited her, multiple times. She says she doesn't have time for TAM, lol. But she'll sometimes read over my shoulder or let me ask her questions so I can post her responses.  I did ask her about this post earlier, and I think she's going to give me a response to post, maybe tonight. Not sure.

I'm glad you did!



calvin said:


> Even when me and CSS were only a couple years into our marriage I went through
> a lot of dry spells with her,we loved the hell out of eachother,still do.
> I don't think she care for sex all that much t be honest.


Ohhh, the real problems start early, but don't seem huge at first. It's funny how they begin so small, yet can grow to choke out the relationship. GF and I have learned so much this last year. Getting to the root of sexual problems can be complicated. Especially since they're often about anything but the actual sex (especially with women). GF and I have gone back and forth shutting each other out sexually. _I_ was afraid of being emotionally intimate and present - I found it super threatening. It was far more comfortable to keep a bunch of things between us. I also have ZERO interest in being physically intimate when there's no emotional intimacy, or when things are bad between us. _She_ is really reserved and has trouble letting go, and also feels threatened by emotional intimacy. As we have been working through R and finding each other again, I have noticed a significant (positive) change in all levels of intimacy between us, especially on my side. I feel she is responding to that, albeit more slowly. We are now doing things we've never done before.



calvin said:


> I have had chances to get a fvck buddy or just a sexual relationship with no strings but
> It never seemed right so I did'nt.
> Too many people get hurt,what would my parents think of me?
> The list goes on
> ...


Calvin, I wish I'd had that thought process, that looking at myself through the eyes of well-adjusted others and saying, "Wow, this is actually something really bad that I'm getting into here." All of my peers were aware of my EAs and didn't seem to think anything of them.  A few people at work, too. And even a good friend of mine. I think that's scary! Nobody ever said anything to me, except for GF saying, "I don't like that you spend so much time talking to certain people, and I don't like how you talk about them."

You know, when I was separated from GF (before she moved out, when we were still angry roommates), I had opportunities to hook up with people, to date, whatever. But as hard as I tried to imagine it (despite the EAs I was capable of having), I just felt disturbed and uncertain when I thought of trying to be physical with other people. Maybe I'm like CSS in that way. GF and I would talk about our dating prospects, and I would think, "This doesn't make me happy. In fact, it makes me feel worse." She would ask me why I wouldn't call these people, why I wouldn't meet anyone for dinner, and I just...had absolutely no desire to do so, not even with her encouragement. And seeing her with other people...I hated them. A thousand times more when she smiled for them in the way she wouldn't for me, and hadn't for a while. 

Of course, I did plenty to make her not want to smile for me. I did a good job of making her miserable without meaning to, even without the infidelity. It's hard to even talk about some of our relationship problems on here because I sometimes think they're mostly my fault, especially between the BPD and the cheating, and that I'm wrong to even bring them up. I just feel like an a$$ about it, but sometimes I feel the need to talk about both sides. I often wonder how much better our relationship would have been if I could go back and be the person then that I am becoming now. I know I can't really take responsibility for _everything_, though. But I still tip back and forth between saying, "Okay, these problems before the infidelity were definitely ones that GF contributed to, so we have to be mutually responsible and addressing them together," and, "This was all my fault, if I hadn't been such a fvck-up in the first place, none of the bad things ever would have existed." I honestly don't know why she picked me sometimes, but she still says I'm the most wonderful person she has ever known. :scratchhead: I don't know how she can still say those kinds of things - she couldn't for a while - but I'm grateful.

Like you, she said that there was no way she could have reconciled with me if any of my EAs had gone to PAs. I know how CSS feels when she's muttering to herself, asking what she was thinking, risking losing you. I struggle to understand it on a regular basis myself. How I didn't see way earlier what I was doing, or how destructive and wrong it was, how much I hurt her, how I almost lost her for good. It just seems totally crazy to me now. I don't know what was wrong with me.  

Sorry for rambling about my stuff so much on your thread.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> I think all cheaters do. Lie to themselves, I mean. Lying to the spouse is something incidental that comes after lying to yourself.


This is spot on.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

You're Alright Sp.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

Thanks, Calvin.  I think you're pretty damned cool. There are a surprising number of cool people around here and on the R thread.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

soulpotato said:


> This is spot on.


Lies I told to me were: "There's nothing wrong with my friendship with X."
And later
"The fact I have invited X out for drinking and then back to my place (for logistical reasons my wife and I had separate homes at that time) for unprotected sex will not mean anything to my marriage and what my wife doesn't know won't hurt her." 

Only just before PIV sex happened did I realise what I was doing was wrong and I shut the affair down within seconds.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

This is the first email that I'll share. I'm not going to go into our backstory. I'll assume that anyone reading this is already familiar with it. B1 wrote this to me at a time when he knew that I had finally come to accept that my choice to have an affair was completely on me. I had finally "owned" the "A," and I was no longer attempting to shift the blame onto him. Of course, with that realization came immense pain, shame, guilt, remorse, devastation, and the "loss of self" as the person I had always believed myself to be. I had only thought I was broken before this. Now, I was completely decimated. This was a journey that I had to walk alone. I owed B1 so much, but for the life of me I did not know why he wanted me, loved me or cared for me. We had been taking turns, for months, being strong for one another. At this point, I seriously had thoughts of "running away." I felt worthless. This is what my BS said to me:
_
"I just wanted to tell you that you are a good person, a really good person, xxxxxxxx. Perhaps I don't need to tell you this, you should already know it! You have a heart of gold and so wish to please and help others. You would do almost anything for anyone if it meant you were helping them. You are loving, caring, kind and compassionate. You are sincere and honest, you are just beautiful inside and out.

I love you and just wanted you to know what I thought about it all as of now.

I believe you when you tell me things about the A. That's important to my healing.
I believe you love me.
I believe you are overall sorry about the A.
I believe you are sorry for your choice.
I believe now, that you know your A was wrong.
I believe you will never do this again.
I believe I trust you very much now.
I believe in you.
I know I am deeply in love with you!
<3 "

_

Those words were so healing. How could I read those words and not feel loved and cherished, but perhaps, greater than that; empowered. B1's unwavering love and commitment to me and our marriage gave me the strength and the will to fight for me, us, and our marriage. I might not have believed that I was worth it, but he believed I was worth it. And, I knew that he deserved the very best me that I could give him. He didn't "use" my defeat as an opportunity to extract his owed pound of flesh from me. But, instead, he humbled himself, and loved me in a 'bigger' way than he had ever loved me before. Have I mentioned that I love this man with every ounce of my being? 

This is a very personal email and I posted it here because I believe/hope it is a "safe" thread and that B1 and I will not need to defend ourselves or our method of reconciliation. Well, B1 won't have to because he is no longer willing to subject himself to the scrutiny. I, on the other hand, have this incessant need to be understood/validated by others. B1 never really has. It's just one more thing that I admire about him.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

EI said:


> I might not have believed that I was worth it, but he believed I was worth it. And, I knew that he deserved the very best me that I could give him.


WOW, I second!! I relate to so much of what you write. B1 upping the love ante and speaking those words of love and belief kind of reminds me of the way my own partner has been as of late. 



EI said:


> This is a very personal email and I posted it here because I believe/hope it is a "safe" thread and that B1 and I will not need to defend ourselves or our method of reconciliation. Well, B1 won't have to because he is no longer willing to subject himself to the scrutiny. I, on the other hand, have this incessant need to be understood/validated by others. B1 never really has. It's just one more thing that I admire about him.


Nobody had better bother you! I will bite them!!  And if that doesn't work, I think there would be plenty of other people lining up to defend you and your R.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

EI, if I am not mistaken that was written fairly early during your and B1's R correct? I remember your both your and B1's threads and there seemed to be a turning point in both threads around the same time. At least it was evident to me at any rate. Was that approximately when you received this email?


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

That was touching EI.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

soulpotato said:


> WOW, I second!! I relate to so much of what you write. B1 upping the love ante and speaking those words of love and belief kind of reminds me of the way my own partner has been as of late.
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody had better bother you! I will bite them!!  And if that doesn't work, I think there would be plenty of other people lining up to defend you and your R.


SP, I'm so glad that things are finally getting better for you and GF. I'm glad that she, too, has been upping the love ante, lately. But, I do want to say that with, or without, her validation, I, and many others, here, are well aware of your value as a person. I think that you view yourself through a much more critical lens than others do. And, I'm all too familiar with that kind of the thinking. Sure, you have your critics, and like me, you can hear twenty words of affirmation, but the one critic's words will be the words that you will replay over and over in your mind. Am I getting close?

It's interesting that you say you can relate to so much of what I write. I have thought the same about you many times. In fact, I had written a novel-sized post a week or two ago, to that effect, and "lost it" when our WiFi went out one evening. The truth is that I think I understand you very well. I think we're a great deal alike. Reading your posts has helped me more than you know. I truly appreciate your contributions on TAM. I know it can be a very difficult environment for WS's and I would imagine that being a WS is only the tip of the iceberg of some of the challenges and hardships that you've faced due to the ignorance and lack of compassion of others. So, thank you for sticking around. You've become an integral part of the "R" thread. And, although, I know that I'm not impartial, I do think that the "R" thread has been a positive place to land on TAM for those of us who don't necessarily subscribe to ALL of the TAM approved methods of Reconciliation. I am continuously inspired by the respectful dialogue that takes place there on an ongoing basis. Again, thank you. It's nice to know that you're in my corner. You're the kind of person I would want in my corner.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

bfree said:


> EI, if I am not mistaken that was written fairly early during your and B1's R correct? I remember your both your and B1's threads and there seemed to be a turning point in both threads around the same time. At least it was evident to me at any rate. Was that approximately when you received this email?



Oh, bfree, it really touches me that you remember so much. And, yes, it was "fairly" early and it was a huge turning point for us. But, that wasn't from one of B1's posts, it was from a personal email that he sent to me from work one day. I just checked the date.... it was one year ago, yesterday. Up to that point, I had truly harbored a great deal of resentment towards B1. And, that resentment was preventing me from "owning" the blame/fault for my "A." Try as I might, I could not get past the "I'm sorry that I hurt you, but......." feelings. It wasn't that I didn't want to. I truly agonized over it. Logically, I knew it, but I could not force what I did not "feel." And, I refused to lie or to just say what B1 needed to hear and what everyone else was demanding that I say/acknowledge. Doing so would have only led to more resentment on my part and a possible false R. I had to truly "work" through my feelings, my hurt and my resentment. So many, here, implied that my feelings were, now, insignificant. I'm so grateful and blessed that my feelings were not insignificant to B1. 

When I was finally able to honestly say "I'm sorry that I betrayed you, I'm sorry that I lied to you, I'm sorry that I deceived you, I'm sorry that I hurt our children, and I'm sorry that I violated our marriage and my own integrity. I was wrong. There is nothing that you said or did or didn't say or do that made what I did justifiable," all of the resentment, bitterness and anger that I had felt towards B1, for so many years, dissolved in an instant. A huge weight was lifted from both of us. I woke up the next morning and felt like a new person. That bitterness has never returned.


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## Forever Grateful (Aug 15, 2013)

soulpotato said:


> WOW, I second!! I relate to so much of what you write. B1 upping the love ante and speaking those words of love and belief kind of reminds me of the way my own partner has been as of late.
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody had better bother you! I will bite them!!  And if that doesn't work, I think there would be plenty of other people lining up to defend you and your R.


Ditto. I find myself nodding to most of EI's post. And that email was just beautiful. RTBP doesn't vocalize it very often but he shows his love through his actions everyday.

I'd go with knee to the crotch. I pay attention sometimes in between ogling RTBP when trains for MT. lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey Hurtin Still----I know you still agonize, and now you agonize even more---cuz she has been lying to you

You will never put this behind you--cuz you don't have all the answers, and obviously you want all the answers---which would then take your imagination out of play once and for all

How has your mge been since her ONS---I have know idea if you posted and talked about your situation, and if I even read your thread if you did post---but how did you catch her, or how did you find out about the ONS----did you ever get a WHY from her---if you are each other's one and only---it could very well be, she wanted to see what things were like with another lover----but why a ONS---did you have kids at the time---cuz obviously she was cheating on them also----Is she dependent on you to make it in life, or can she fend for herself, if you were to cut her loose

Why did she let you believe for all these years, the pick-up was made in a different bar---also where did they have their sex---and where were you, while she was out at a bar hunting down men that she could spread her legs for

I think you really do need closure, and she needs to answer your questions---and take your imagination out of play----if she doesn't---you will continue to trigger, as you get older, and it all gets much tougher the longer the wound is left open, and as you slowly move toward spending all of your time with her, as in retirement---where you are with each other 24/7


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

EI said:


> Oh, bfree, it really touches me that you remember so much. And, yes, it was "fairly" early and it was a huge turning point for us. But, that wasn't from one of B1's posts, it was from a personal email that he sent to me from work one day. I just checked the date.... it was one year ago, yesterday. Up to that point, I had truly harbored a great deal of resentment towards B1. And, that resentment was preventing me from "owning" the blame/fault for my "A." Try as I might, I could not get past the "I'm sorry that I hurt you, but......." feelings. It wasn't that I didn't want to. I truly agonized over it. Logically, I knew it, but I could not force what I did not "feel." And, I refused to lie or to just say what B1 needed to hear and what everyone else was demanding that I say/acknowledge. Doing so would have only led to more resentment on my part and a possible false R. I had to truly "work" through my feelings, my hurt and my resentment. So many, here, implied that my feelings were, now, insignificant. I'm so grateful and blessed that my feelings were not insignificant to B1.
> 
> When I was finally able to honestly say "I'm sorry that I betrayed you, I'm sorry that I lied to you, I'm sorry that I deceived you, I'm sorry that I hurt our children, and I'm sorry that I violated our marriage and my own integrity. I was wrong. There is nothing that you said or did or didn't say or do that made what I did justifiable," all of the resentment, bitterness and anger that I had felt towards B1, for so many years, dissolved in an instant. A huge weight was lifted from both of us. I woke up the next morning and felt like a new person. That bitterness has never returned.


When you first came to TAM you were confused. You were searching. Searching for a way to help B1 because of the hurt he was experiencing but there was a subtle but underlying tone. I think you were also searching for why you didn't feel worse than you did. Yes you were devesatated over the pain your affair caused but I could sense that you didn't feel as bad about having the affair as you did the pain it ultimately caused. And you wanted to know why.

Then your tone changed. You became very introspective and I could "feel" a shift in the wind. Most assumed that you had simply come out of the fog. Some didn't believe you and felt you were simply waiting until things settled down and would continue the affair underground. Many advised B1 to be cautious and to suspect you and your motives. But B1 believed you and he embraced your overtures of atonement. It was very wise on his part.

I do realize that what you posted was a private email. Had he posted that on TAM at the time he would have been driven off this borad for showing weakness. Obviously he was quite aware of what he truly needed to say and do. What I find absolutely amazing is that he was able to look past his pain and anger to see you and the struggle you were undergoing. For him to be able to set aside his understandable anguish and pour out his feelings like that is truly remarkable and probably not something I could have done. It just demonstrates the incredible bond that you both had. That bond may have been damaged, it may have been stretched to its limits, but it never broke. That is what I see as love and it is a beautiful thing.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

EI said:


> SP, I'm so glad that things are finally getting better for you and GF. I'm glad that she, too, has been upping the love ante, lately. But, I do want to say that with, or without, her validation, I, and many others, here, are well aware of your value as a person. I think that you view yourself through a much more critical lens than others do. And, I'm all too familiar with that kind of the thinking. Sure, you have your critics, and like me, you can hear twenty words of affirmation, but the one critic's words will be the words that you will replay over and over in your mind. Am I getting close?


They go up and down, naturally, but our ups are getting longer, stronger, and more consistent.  I'm hoping!

The voices of people here on TAM do matter to me, especially those I like and respect that I've been around for a while. I feel reassured and cared for when you and other people here say that I am valuable and deserve affirmation. 

Yes, as usual, you're right about me! I view myself very critically. I am far more forgiving of others than I am of myself. When people say negative things, they echo the harshness that I direct towards myself, which is why it can have such an impact.



EI said:


> It's interesting that you say you can relate to so much of what I write. I have thought the same about you many times. In fact, I had written a novel-sized post a week or two ago, to that effect, and "lost it" when our WiFi went out one evening. The truth is that I think I understand you very well. I think we're a great deal alike. Reading your posts has helped me more than you know. I truly appreciate your contributions on TAM.


Oh no!  I want to read it! LOL. I think you're right. I'm very glad that my posts have helped you - I know yours have constantly been helpful and moving for me. And I just really like you as a person. :smthumbup: B1 nailed it. You are just a really good, caring person, and those are pretty rare.



EI said:


> I know it can be a very difficult environment for WS's and I would imagine that being a WS is only the tip of the iceberg of some of the challenges and hardships that you've faced due to the ignorance and lack of compassion of others. So, thank you for sticking around.


And you also have a tendency to reply to things I typed but never posted!  Thank you for this. It has not been easy, but I'm glad I've managed to stay here. 



EI said:


> You've become an integral part of the "R" thread. And, although, I know that I'm not impartial, I do think that the "R" thread has been a positive place to land on TAM for those of us who don't necessarily subscribe to ALL of the TAM approved methods of Reconciliation. I am continuously inspired by the respectful dialogue that takes place there on an ongoing basis. Again, thank you.


Thank you.  You and B1 made the R thread a safe and welcoming place, and it is the place on TAM that I feel the most at home. You especially have reached out to me and others countless times with compassion and encouragement, and it makes a huge difference. _You_ make a difference here on TAM, and to many individuals. I don't think there's any doubt in anyone's mind who has been around you at all that you are a special person who cannot help but affect others in a positive way. 



EI said:


> It's nice to know that you're in my corner. You're the kind of person I would want in my corner.


You are going to make me cry! You say the nicest things. Thank you again, EI.  Where is the hug emoticon? Oh well, we'll just make-do. ((hug)) Yes, I am there!


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

One other thing I need to say. EI, there are many WS that come through this board. But few actually look for ways to truly R. You were lost in the woods. It was dark and you were confused. You could have just say there wallowing in self pity. You could have defiantly refused to move. But you were actively searching for the way home. When B1 sent that email he was shining a light on the path back to him. You could have refused to follow that light. You could have shut your eyes so you didn't see it. But you didn't. You accepted his gift of illumination and started down the path back. B1 then joined you on that path and the rest ifs history as they say. But the fact that you were looking not only for ways to atone but for ways to understand, accept and grow speaks volumes to your character, integrity and your love for B1.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

I must admit when EI started posting I did'nt think she was very remoreful and
I doubted that her and B1 would make it,well she proved me wrong.
I witnessed her her work on herself and B1 and transform into a woman who
took ownership and worked very hard to repair the damage.
Then she reached out to others in need of help.
Quite a success story,I became inspired and impressed.
Hey,us Kentucky people never give up!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

There's another success story here isn't there?

Calvin, when CSS betrayed you you were devastated. You are a strong proud and honorable man. I know what you felt because I'd been there. Yet your bond with her may have bent but never broke. You sensed that she was in trouble and had the strength to put aside your own pain and come to her aid. Nobody would have blamed you for letting her hurt. Nobody would have faulted you for wanted her to suffer. But your love for her was strong and when she was lying in a pit of despair you extended a hand and pulled her out.

And CSS, EI's post highlights another thing that WSs have to work through. Mistrust. I'm not referring to the BS not trusting the WS. I'm talking about the WS not trusting the BS. After all you have injured your loved one in the worst way possible. You deserve to be hurt back so why wouldn't they try to hurt you? Or as EI put it why would they want you after what you did. Then if there were problems in the marriage can you trust the BS to work together on the relationship to build a better stronger one. It's just another issue that needs to be dealt with. But CSS, I'm sure these thoughts were going through your mind. I'm sure when Calvin extended that hand you weren't sure if he was going to pull you out or push you down further. But you were able to see through your emotional turmoil and trust that he wouldn't hurt you even after all that had be said and done. You were able to find your own inner strength to trust and to rely on that bond that you still shared with him. That's just another example of true love here on TAM.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey E1---this as you say seems to be a pretty safe, and open thread---with cross conversations going all over the place

B1 won you back, and things are good---what if had not been able to win you back---what if the reasons you strayed, held sway, and you were for whatever reason, in your mind---thru with B1----where would you be now

Would you have stayed in the mge, for the kids, or possibly because, you didn't wanna face going out into the big wide world on your own, and what would have gone down with the OM---I don't know your A. story, so I don't know how/why it all ended---just trying to get some thinking as to what a wandering spouse would do---should he/she, not really wanna re-hook up with their married partner

Along that line---had you stayed, under the premise, you wanted no re-awakening of your mge---were you prepared to live as roommates----or maybe to leave when the kids left the nest-----what had B1 actually put on the table to you

Not trying to pry, so don't answer if this bothers you---just looking for some thinking from a wandering spouse who is willing to, and does speak out, as "can't sit still" has done here also----thx for your time


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

bfree said:


> There's another success story here isn't there?
> 
> Calvin, when CSS betrayed you you were devastated. You are a strong proud and honorable man. I know what you felt because I'd been there. Yet your bond with her may have bent but never broke. You sensed that she was in trouble and had the strength to put aside your own pain and come to her aid. Nobody would have blamed you for letting her hurt. Nobody would have faulted you for wanted her to suffer. But your love for her was strong and when she was lying in a pit of despair you extended a hand and pulled her out.
> 
> And CSS, EI's post highlights another thing that WSs have to work through. Mistrust. I'm not referring to the BS not trusting the WS. I'm talking about the WS not trusting the BS. After all you have injured your loved one in the worst way possible. You deserve to be hurt back so why wouldn't they try to hurt you? Or as EI put it why would they want you after what you did. Then if there were problems in the marriage can you trust the BS to work together on the relationship to build a better stronger one. It's just another issue that needs to be dealt with. But CSS, I'm sure these thoughts were going through your mind. I'm sure when Calvin extended that hand you weren't sure if he was going to pull you out or push you down further. But you were able to see through your emotional turmoil and trust that he wouldn't hurt you even after all that had be said and done. You were able to find your own inner strength to trust and to rely on that bond that you still shared with him. That's just another example of true love here on TAM.


 Thanks bfree,I was terrified for her that night I told her him or me and she walked out
the door for him,no telling what that SOB would have done.
I don't know if we would have made it without the good folks here at Tams
but we did make,hardest thing I ever had to do in my life but well worth it.
Me and CSS belong together.....forever.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

Calvin, GF was too scared to do that.  She thought she would lose, hands down. When she told me that earlier this year, it broke my heart. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

jnj express said:


> Hey E1---this as you say seems to be a pretty safe, and open thread---with cross conversations going all over the place
> 
> B1 won you back, and things are good---what if had not been able to win you back---what if the reasons you strayed, held sway, and you were for whatever reason, in your mind---thru with B1----where would you be now
> 
> ...


jnj, I'll get back to you on all of these questions. I don't mind you asking. It was answering questions, such as these, in the early months, after D-Day, that encouraged me to do a lot of the introspection that I needed to do in order to have a genuine reconciliation with B1.

But, I have just returned from taking our youngest to have his wisdom teeth removed and I need to get him comfortable, out of pain, and settled in so that he can go to sleep and I can go to the grocery. 

I will get back to this later. They are fairly deep and thought provoking questions and I may need to think about them for a day, or so, in order to give you some well thought out answers.

SP, bfree, and calvin, thank you so much for continuing to be such an incredible source of encouragement, inspiration and wisdom throughout our reconciliation. 

SP, thank you for the lovely pm. I promise to respond to you later this evening.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

EI, you're very welcome.  Please be sure to take care of yourself. I'll understand if you aren't able to reply tonight, but I appreciate the thought/intention. I know you're very busy!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pollywog (May 30, 2013)

Second time for Reconciliation for me - first time was a joke and he was not sincere. This time he has apologized more than anyone should have to, has cut all ties with skank, read some Dr. Gary Chapman books, made reservations for us to attend one of his seminars next month, actions have been matching his words, where as before they did not, starts IC in 2 weeks and has asked me to go to MC with him. Doing all he can to keep me from leaving.

Thing is - I do not feel this marriage any longer and I had started to disconnect about mid August. I am not sure I can find my way back to it or him because of all the hurt/lies etc. One day at a time is all I can do and each day so far I wake up still not feeling the marriage. He hurts and I feel bad for him, but he cared not one ounce about my feelings or how bad I hurt. He is now me a few months ago :-(

I had dinner with an old friend the last week in September, other people were there so we were not alone, however we did stay at the restaurant out on the patio after everyone else had left, just catching up on old times etc. We decided to meet again before the end of the year after WS or I had moved out. We sent texts to each other the next day about what might happen at next meeting etc. WS snatched my phone and read them. He did not know dinner with old friend was a guy, he assumed it was a female and he was ticked. Two days later is when he decided he did not want to lose me and really started working toward making amends to me. However it was 6 days before he told skank no more contact of any kind. He forbid me to have contact with my friend, better not see or talk to him at all - WTH? 

So I think the fact that another man wanted me has made him do an about face. He is doing all he can right now to show me he loves me, but I think too little too late. I just wonder how long before he reverts back to the jerk he was. I know in the last email I read from skank she said "I believe you when you said we were soul mates and will be together as soon as you can" so is he still playing me for a fool or is he really sincere - I have no clue. He is doing and saying all the right things, showing remorse but I am just not there anymore, not sure I ever will be.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Hurtin_Still said:


> ....for the most part ...she's been a good wife since then. The "heavy lifting" as defined now ....the basics ...never happened from her. There were no NC letters, passwords shared, etc..... mind you ...this happened before cell phones, internet ...(social media) etc.
> 
> ....but ..back then she told me that this guy wanted to see her again ...and she called him to say ..._"no more ....mistake was made ....I'm going to go back to fix my marriage"_. Wife told me this year ...that there was no contact whatsoever after that night, no call to /from him.
> 
> ...


HURTIN
you'd is one of the stories on CEO I find most compelling. I am my wife's first, she was mine. Having thought a little on this, if she had sex with another man.........well I'd react in any number of ways (I only know how I HOPE I would handle it)
But one thing I think I'd want, maybe even insist on....is that she allow me to have sex with another woman. The reason is I don't think I could allow her to have a "reference point" with me, but me not have one with her. She'd always be able to compare me with someone; I would need to have the same ability vis a vis her.

Whatever that says about me...Don't know. But I'd somehow consider it a fundamental unfairness in some way. Just would.

I think you should tell your AD that you need to separate from her
For awhile. A separation where you plan to meet and date other people. (That you would like her not to date others BTW) After a defined period of time you will end the 
Separation and tell her what you wan to do, D or R.
I.e.you want to see if you can find someone better than her. If not you might want to stay with her.

If she's remorseful enough she'll agree. More likely she won't. I do think you should seriously consider temp separation from her. You need more leverage with her and when she sees you are serious you might end up finding out how she really feels about you.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

remorseful strayer said:


> Actually, I think the problem is that some people are throwing around the word blameshifting without actually understanding what it means.
> 
> Telling someone a fact of a LEGITIMATE failing in the marriage is not blameshifting. It's actually communication.
> 
> ...


It is interesting that you believe that a cheater who blames an absent money-making spouse is blame shifting but one who blames sexual starvation is not. 

The world according to you? They are either both legitimate or not. The world according consistency. You can't see it that way because you were the worker bee with the honey. 

You were just lucky that, apparently, your wife did not cheat. The thought may be too devastating for you to consider so your judgement is skewed. 

You say you are here to help? Your tone is wrong. It's the wealthy Dr persona with all of the answers. Your profession and money does not immunize you to feelings of fear and inferiority. Drop the supercilious, dismissive tone.

Being a seeker just like every else is not so bad. No one but you expects you to have all of the answers. You never found it in medical school or the practice of psychiatry did you? 

You say that it would have been easier for you to divorce rather than work on your marriage? I don't think so. You need your wife much more than she will ever need you. If she cheated you would forgive her?

I'll bet you are sure she won't cheat and if she did, it would kill you. Don't be so sure you are out of the woods with your wife. If she can attract your devotion, she can attract another man's too.


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## user_zero (Aug 30, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> It is interesting that you believe that a cheater who blames an absent money-making spouse is blame shifting but one who blames sexual starvation is not.
> 
> The world according to you? They are either both legitimate or not. The world according consistency. You can't see it that way because you were the worker bee with the honey.
> 
> ...


please read "does-cheater-hurt-too?" thread. it's getting interesting there. you will find that he has a charming personality, great confidence , vast knowledge , a lot of experiences. and not even a cent of pride or entitlement


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Well this was an interesting read. I can't offer much constructive since I have pretty much no experience with a remorseful spouse. 

Although recently she has been trying, but it is to little way the hell to late. I have told her so and the more I tell her the more she keeps trying. Go figure.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

workindad said:


> Well this was an interesting read. I can't offer much constructive since I have pretty much no experience with a remorseful spouse.
> 
> Although recently she has been trying, but it is to little way the hell to late. I have told her so and the more I tell her the more she keeps trying. Go figure.


 I was brought up to be honest,most of us were,if I hurt someone or caused pain
I was taught and shown how that could hurt a person.
To deliberately or flat out hurt someone and have little or no concern,or even worse
faking remorse is unthinkable.
I never have seen remorse like my wife showed me and others in my family.
It hurt me when she tried to hurt herself.
She has made great strides in a lot of aspects of her life,not that was a bad woman at all.
I'm proud of her,does that make sense?
Well,I am.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lmodel (Jun 1, 2012)

It's 17 months since DD for me and whilst my wife is incredibly remorseful and is doing everything to repair the damage she did to our marriage for me it's still very difficult to move on. Her PA went on for 15 months with the husband of her best friend and whilst she has answered any question I have asked her I'm sure there is plenty which I will never know. She simply doesn't understand that we can never be the same again. For months I suspected there was something between them but she swore black and blue there was nothing " how could you possibly not trust me". I loved my wife unconditionally, I had her on a pedestal, I gave her everything I could and now that's all gone.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Lmodel said:


> It's 17 months since DD for me and whilst my wife is incredibly remorseful and is doing everything to repair the damage she did to our marriage for me it's still very difficult to move on. Her PA went on for 15 months with the husband of her best friend and whilst she has answered any question I have asked her I'm sure there is plenty which I will never know. She simply doesn't understand that we can never be the same again. For months I suspected there was something between them but she swore black and blue there was nothing " how could you possibly not trust me". I loved my wife unconditionally, I had her on a pedestal, I gave her everything I could and now that's all gone.


 I'm sorry L.
Hang in there.She needs to be open and honest with everything you ask and she has
to show you a true effort if she is genuine.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hurtin_Still (Oct 3, 2011)

jnj express said:


> Hey Hurtin Still----I know you still agonize, and now you agonize even more---cuz she has been lying to you
> 
> You will never put this behind you--cuz you don't have all the answers, and obviously you want all the answers---which would then take your imagination out of play once and for all
> 
> ...


....jnj .....I appreciate your input, here's my * "back-story" * so you can get a better idea of where I'm at and how I got here...


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