# He is hesitant on marriage



## Ijustwanttoknow (Jun 16, 2013)

My boyfriend and I have been together for almost 5 years. However...I want to progress our relationship towards marriage but he is a little hesitant. Not from anything I have done, he is hesitant because he was burned in his previous marriage (bad divorced). How do I get him over this without being pushy or demanding. I try not to mention marriage because I want him to be ready. We could be perfect together. We are great together, it's just this wall that he wont let down. He told me that yes he is a little cautious and thinks that marriage changes people. I can't prove to him that I am not his ex and I would never hurt him. I have given him several years and I feel he is the one for me. I just don't know if I should continue this relationship. I can't see myself without him dont get me wrong, however he has told me that he has thought about marriage lately. But I dont know if he is just saying that to keep me around? I no long want to think that I am not good enough to fully commit to. Help...


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

He's right. People change after marriage. Why ruin a good thing?


----------



## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Ijustwanttoknow said:


> ...I want to progress our relationship towards marriage but he is a little hesitant.
> 
> ... he has told me that he has thought about marriage lately. But I dont know if he is just saying that to keep me around? I no long want to think that I am not good enough to fully commit to. Help...


Actually nobody can tell you if what he is saying means he is warming up to the idea of marriage, or if he is merely saying it to string you along.

Why not just sit him down and flat out ask him?

You might not like the answer, but you won't have any resolution to what is going on with him unless you ask.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Some men never want to remarry after a bad divorce. Some men do. Only he knows what's going on in his brain. He may or may not ever be able to regain the level of trust he once had in his marriage.

But it's his decision. You decision is to stay or walk away.


----------



## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

Ijustwanttoknow said:


> My boyfriend and I have been together for almost 5 years. However...I want to progress our relationship towards marriage but he is a little hesitant. Not from anything I have done, he is hesitant because he was burned in his previous marriage (bad divorced). How do I get him over this without being pushy or demanding. I try not to mention marriage because I want him to be ready. We could be perfect together. We are great together, it's just this wall that he wont let down. He told me that yes he is a little cautious and thinks that marriage changes people. I can't prove to him that I am not his ex and I would never hurt him. I have given him several years and I feel he is the one for me. I just don't know if I should continue this relationship. I can't see myself without him dont get me wrong, however he has told me that he has thought about marriage lately. But I dont know if he is just saying that to keep me around? I no long want to think that I am not good enough to fully commit to. Help...


I was in the exact same situation as your husband. I dearly loved my gf but I had screwed up so bad in my first marriage that I was scared to death to re-marry..

I would recommend that you gently, in a manner of fact way... let him know that you are moving on. As in, I think we need to start seeing other people... And, I'd start making plans to move on...

Here's the deal.. I don't want you to force him into marrying you. If he doesn't love you... enough to marry you... then trust me, it is better that you move on than marry someone whom you'll be divorced from in a few years. 

Trust me on this... When I got divorced it was the worst experience of my life and I was glad to be getting divorced.

If he hasn't married you in 5 years... I'd say he's comfortable with you but not in love. 

Don't settle. Find someone that loves you.. You deserve it... You deserve to be loved.


----------



## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

Why is marriage required for the relationship to progress?

In my mind, the commitment is far more meaningful with no legal entanglements. When a man stays with you even though he could walk out the door scott-free, you have something worthwhile. When he stays because he is afraid of being devastated financially, what do you really have?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Would you sign a prenup? Do you work? Have your own money?


----------



## Ijustwanttoknow (Jun 16, 2013)

I would sign a prenup. Yes I have a job. Yes I have my own home that I purchase by myself. Yes I have my own money. We do not live in the same household either. Thats the way I want to keep it for the time being. Im sorry that he has had a bad experience with his marriage but why should I or do I have to suffer from those experiences that he had with his ex? He married in his 20's and he is now in his 40s. Im in my 30's and have done really well for myself. I think I am a good catch honestly. Marriage is something that I always wanted for the right reasons...love, commitment etc. and not as a "gold digger". He allowed himself to experience marriage and maybe he doesn't want to get married again. I know he loves me and I love him. Im just saying he knew from the very beginning of our relationship that marriage was something that I was looking for. He choose to continue on with the relationship as did I. I would rather be with him as stated before, but I want us to experience things together as well. He knows Im not that type of person...he just tells me that he wants to be cautious when I talk to him about his commit phobia. Is he giving me false hope by saying he is starting to think about? I dont bring it up, I want him to want it to make sure he knows it right. No pressure from me what so ever. I have been dealing with this on my own and Ive only brought it up once or twice. I dont know. Im just really confused.


----------



## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

You love him, he loves you. Do you want children with this man? You don't live together now....maybe he terrified that marriage will change the great thing you have going.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Can you list out the upside of marriage for him? Is there anything he gets with marriage that he can't get without it? There is a long list of downsides. Financial issues, potential alimony, diminished sex life. Most everything gets worse with marriage. What are the upsides?


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Why do you "have to suffer those experiences?" Because they have affected him deeply and if you want to be with him then you have to accept him the way he is (assuming he has no interest in attempting to change). You can't change what he's gone through. One day he may decide to marry you. Or not. It's up to you what you can accept.


----------



## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Can you list out the upside of marriage for him? Is there anything he gets with marriage that he can't get without it? There is a long list of downsides. Financial issues, potential alimony, diminished sex life. Most everything gets worse with marriage. What are the upsides?


You are MARRIED to the person you love.

Marriage is a public profession, an affirmation of my love..

You can have an expectation that you will grow old with the person that you love... That they aren't free to abandon you at the first bump in the road. 

I don't believe in having children out of wedlock...

You get to introduce that person as your spouse.

I felt like it took my GF off the market so to speak... She's wearing a wedding ring...


----------



## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

That's your beliefs. I know plenty people who have been together many, many years with children who are really happy not married.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

But are the children happy they aren't married?


----------



## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Are the kids happy when married mommy and daddy are at eachothers throats?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

That makes it sound like those are the only two alternatives - unmarried happy couple, married unhappy couple. I'm rather sure there's a much wider grey zone in the middle.


----------



## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Of course there is. Her boyfriend by her account was in a terrible marriage. I could understand why he wouldn't be in a rush to marry again. Say she leaves him cause its a deal breaker for her and they split, she then doesn't find anyone who loves her the way he loved her. Thats unfortunate. Its also possible.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

If he loved her... he would already have married her...

If I was her, I'd move on..


----------



## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

You have been divorced and remarried?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kimberley17 (Oct 10, 2011)

I agree, from my experience people do change after marriage.


----------



## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

Some people will jump through hoops to get someone to marry them...And once they are married... they feel free to relax...and be themselves..

My first wife did that. It lasted 2.5 miserable years. 

The solution is to be yourself and let someone fall in love with what you are.. 

My second wife did that. 

And the honeymoon continues to this day..


----------



## Laila8 (Apr 24, 2013)

After 5 years, I don't think he has any plans to marry you.  I'm really sorry, but I would move on. You should not have to pay for the sins of his ex-wife.


----------



## IsGirl3 (Nov 13, 2012)

I agree with Laila8. 5 years isn't so long if you're 16, 17 years old. Even early 20's. But you are in your 30's - the prime of your life. If you want to get married, and he never does, and if you want kids, he's robbing you of great years. He has taken you off the market with no promise of tomorrow.

If he is going to let the past paralyze him then I'm so sorry that you are the fallout. You sound like a great catch. You deserve someone who is so crazy about you that he wants to marry you. At your age, you shouldn't be with someone for more than a year, if you're not talking marriage.

It will kill you to say this, but if he has no intentions of marrying you, then you need to leave. He is being very selfish to string you along if he has no plans to marry you. It is so sad that he is sabatouging his own future.

Good luck to you.


----------



## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Ijustwanttoknow said:


> ...he just tells me that he wants to be cautious when I talk to him about his commit phobia. Is he giving me false hope by saying he is starting to think about? I dont bring it up, I want him to want it to make sure he knows it right. No pressure from me what so ever. I have been dealing with this on my own and Ive only brought it up once or twice. I dont know. Im just really confused.


Yeah, well, you ARE confused because you lack a backbone.

After this long, rather than posting here to a bunch of strangers about your concerns, you should have a sense of trust with this man. 

And that means you voice your concerns. You ask him what he really wants to do relationship-wise.

Frankly, I'm growing weary of so many posters coming on here claiming to be "confused." Heck, get rid of the confusion by having a frank and open discussion.

That is what adults do.


----------



## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

By trying not to push him, it seems you've gone 5 years without him giving marriage any thought. Maybe he doesn't know how important marriage is to you. You should tell him.


----------



## ubercoolpanda (Sep 11, 2012)

You've been together 5 years? 

I think the next step should be to move in together rather than get married?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Just some food for thought (sorry other TAMers who've heard this before).

Have a cousin who dated a woman for TEN YEARS. Part of that time they lived together. He FLAT OUT TOLD HER he didn't want to get married. She hung in there anyway.

He decided to move 2000 miles away (naturally without her), and he did. Within SIX MONTHS of living there, he had met/married a woman. Twenty-five years later, they are STILL HAPPILY MARRIED and have a couple of grown kids.

He told ex-gf. She didn't listen. She didn't WANT to believe it. She kept HOPING (which is NOT planning, which is NOT living). She ended up exactly as he'd told her....NOT MARRIED TO HIM.

Suffice it to say, that your bf has dragged his feet long enough! 

You tell him straight out, "You know that marriage (kids?) is a deal-breaker for me. We've been together FIVE YEARS and I'm done waiting patiently for you to decide what you want. I love you, but I am not living in limbo any more. The decision is ENTIRELY YOURS at this point. ARE WE GETTING MARRIED in the next 6 months (12months, whatever YOUR timeframe is) or are we breaking up? I am fully prepared to do either. I want to know by Sunday morning (Saturday evening, again, YOUR timeframe).

Then YOU NEED to be ready/willing/able to move in whichever direction it is: marriage or complete break-up.

You've lived in limbo for TOO LONG by being passive; YOU must FIX IT!


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

As someone who faced the pressure of marriage from my SO I can tell you,if he really wanted you forever he would marry you.

Fear of failure is a huge hang up for me when going into another marriage but it isn't stopping me from marrying SO...bc I want him forever and know I won't find anyone better..he's it.

After 5 years it seems your partner should know this one way or the other about you.He loves you and thinks you're great but he's not secure enough about the two of you to make it legal.


----------



## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

I prefer to be married as well. If I met a man and he wasn't willing to get married, I'd leave the relationship. Marriage is very important to me.

My first marriage was just awful. It was the worst time of my life, but it never completely tainted my views of marriage. I remarried a wonderful man. My husband was also married and divorced. His marriage was awful too.

If you truly want to get married and he's not willing, then he's not the right man for you. We all have our opinions of marriage and neither is right or wrong.

If you truly love this man and can accept his conditions, then stay with him. 

Don't ever try to push anyone to marry you. You can make an ultimatum that if you two are to stay together then you'd want to be married, if not then leave the relationship. Stick to your guns with whatever you decide.

Good luck.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

He knows you want marriage, it's been 5 years, which means he doesn't love you that much. When my hb and I had been dating for 3 years, I told him that I wanted marriage and if he didn't I understood and I was going to look elsewhere. i then told him I'd never bring it up again, but if it became clear to me that we weren't going in that direction I'd keep my other options open. Marriage talk started after that (2nd for both of us). He now says he doesn't know why he waited so long, but the marriage talk didn't start until I made it clear I would move on. Tell your guy that you understand and respect his marriage views and you will be looking elsewhere. If he lets you go then he really doesn't want to get married. Part of this is your fault for going along with this for 5 years hoping he would magically want marriage while he's still got access to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Viseral (Feb 25, 2011)

What he's going through is perfectly understandable. What you need to be aware of is that marriage is stacked against men in traditional, legal, and financial terms. He's been burned before and even if he can't articulate it, he knows it's true.

In your dating relationship you two enjoy an equal balance of power. Understand that by pushing for marriage you're threatening to alter the balance of power between you. 

He likely loves you very much and wants to be with you, but he has legitimate concerns about relinquishing the agency (power) he has in your relationship.

Now, in your dating relationship, you can't harm him, and he can't harm you. You both have separate finances and you don't have the power walk out on him and take half of everything he ever worked for. You're more respectful of him now because you share equal risk and equal reward in your relationship.

Dating represents security for him. Marriage represents insecurity because he knows that at any moment you have the legal power to leave and take half his assets, and that would be twice in his life this has happened to him.

With taking steps towards marriage he has to buy you an expensive ring, yet you don't have to get him anything. And he has to live up to all the familial expectations that come with that. 

Then the next year of his life is taken up planning a big expensive wedding which is "her day", not his. Most dudes don't care about weddings and would rather devote their time and effort into something more productive, not into an over bloated money sucking machine that is the modern wedding industry.

Then once you're married you now have access to all his finances, and have power over him which is backed up by the state, which you didn't have before. You're in a position then to make demands on him which you couldn't do before marriage. People get comfortable and let themselves go. Marriage changes the nature of your relationship. 

It takes a hell of a lot of work to make the marriage a success and it comes with enormous risk. What exactly does he benefit from the legality of marriage? Put yourself in his shoes.

My advice, voluntarily draft a pre-nup and show him that you want him for him, not for his money, and that if it doesn't work out he's protected. He may be having anxiety about asking you for that.

Tell him you want true equality in marriage. So if he has to drop $10k on a ring for you, you'll get him something of equal value. You both share equal benefits AND equal risks.


----------



## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

hambone said:


> If he loved her... he would already have married her...
> 
> If I was her, I'd move on..


In 5 years? BS. Just because he hasn't married her doesn't mean he doesn't love her. What a load of garbage. In this day and age, there are plenty of reasons why a man wouldn't get married and very few reasons for him to take the plunge. It's NOT in a man's best interest to get married anymore.



IsGirl3 said:


> ....At your age, you shouldn't be with someone for more than a year, if you're not talking marriage.
> 
> ....He is being very selfish to string you along if he has no plans to marry you.


A single year??? Anyone talking about getting married after 1 year is crazy. How is it selfish? If they are in a committed relationship, he's still as equally off the market as she is. If anyone is selfish it's the person demanding marriage and threatening to leave the relationship if they don't get their way.



ubercoolpanda said:


> You've been together 5 years?
> 
> I think the next step should be to move in together rather than get married?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


EXACTLY. They haven't even lived together, but she wants him to marry her. One step at a time. Step one, TALK TO HIM....step 2, move in together and see how that works...



SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> ...
> You tell him straight out, "You know that marriage (kids?) is a deal-breaker for me. We've been together FIVE YEARS and I'm done waiting patiently for you to decide what you want. I love you, but I am not living in limbo any more. The decision is ENTIRELY YOURS at this point. ARE WE GETTING MARRIED in the next 6 months (12months, whatever YOUR timeframe is) or are we breaking up? I am fully prepared to do either. I want to know by Sunday morning (Saturday evening, again, YOUR timeframe).
> ...!


Ya, an ultimatum is such a healthy way to start married life. 



lifeistooshort said:


> He knows you want marriage, *it's been 5 years, which means he doesn't love you that much. *When my hb and I had been dating for 3 years, I told him that I wanted marriage....



How would you know how much he loves her? You have NO idea. 

I have been married and divorced. I have been dating the same woman for 3 years now, and I have no plans to get married in the near future. She's in her mid-thirties and I am in my late thirties. *I love her more than any human being I have ever met*, but I don't feel the need to sign a legal contract with her right now just to make her happy. 

She should be happy to be with me (she is). She should want to be with me (she does). She shouldn't think that marriage is the only way for me to prove that I love her (she doesn't). 

No one should do something they don't want to do.


----------



## Laila8 (Apr 24, 2013)

tulsy said:


> No one should do something they don't want to do.


Tulsy, agreed. But that goes BOTH ways. If she doesn't want to just keep dating and be a girlfriend indefinitely, then she shouldn't have to either. I'm assuming the OP wants kids and wants to be married before she has a baby. They both should move on and find someone more compatible with their life goals.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

tulsy said:


> In 5 years? BS. Just because he hasn't married her doesn't mean he doesn't love her. What a load of garbage. In this day and age, there are plenty of reasons why a man wouldn't get married and very few reasons for him to take the plunge. It's NOT in a man's best interest to get married anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nobody said they should. I didn't suggest she give him an ultimatim, but just because YOU don't want to get married doesn't mean that someone who does is obligated to stay with you. Your gf should only stay with you if what you have is working for her; you don't get to unilaterally decide what should work for her. I'm glad it works for your gf but you have made this all about you and it's not. 
If this isn't working for the OP she should move on to someone with more compatible goals.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

tulsy said:


> In 5 years? BS. Just because he hasn't married her doesn't mean he doesn't love her. What a load of garbage. In this day and age, there are plenty of reasons why a man wouldn't get married and very few reasons for him to take the plunge. It's NOT in a man's best interest to get married anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


PRECISELY MY POINT, tulsy! If *SHE* says she doesn't want to be his gf anymore (and she said it), if *SHE* says she wants to be his fiancee (and she did say it), then *SHE* should MAKE CLEAR what it is that SHE wants.

If it's ALSO what *HE* wants, GREAT! They'll be frickin HAPPY.
If it's NOT, then SHE needs to move on and find someone that wants what SHE wants.

Everyone is not like YOU, tulsy. 
Everyone is not like YOUR gf.
THIS woman (the OP) said she is TIRED OF BEING JUST A GF. That makes her UNLIKE *YOUR* gf, so YOUR experience (though relevant to YOU and undoubtedly making you and your gf VERY HAPPY) isn't going to work for HER!

For the record, *I* don't intend to ever get married again. But if I'm with a man who INSISTS he wants to be married, then one of us will have to change our POV...OR...we'll have to move on and find other partners. Same as this OP.

fd!


----------



## toomuchtotell (May 13, 2013)

If you want marriage, and he does not, you do not share very important life goals. I would leave him.


----------



## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

Laila8 said:


> Tulsy, agreed. But that goes BOTH ways. If she doesn't want to just keep dating and be a girlfriend indefinitely, then she shouldn't have to either. I'm assuming the OP wants kids and wants to be married before she has a baby. They both should move on and find someone more compatible with their life goals.


Of course she doesn't have to keep dating him. My comments were in regards to 5 years being too long of a wait and that the guy doesn't really love her. 

I don't see where OP posted anything about children. Where was that in OP's only 2 posts we were all referencing?



lifeistooshort said:


> Nobody said they should. I didn't suggest she give him an ultimatim, but just because YOU don't want to get married doesn't mean that someone who does is obligated to stay with you. ....


What you posted sure smells like an ultimatum. That's how any man would see that...you got 6 months or it's over. Marry me within this time frame or else lose me forever. From what OP posted, that's not even what she wants so why would you suggest that? 

Also, I never said I didn't want to get married, I said I didn't have plans to get married in the near future. It's not an absolute for me. I brought up my situation because it would appear by me not marrying right now, I must not love my girlfriend either.

I couldn't agree more about someone not being obligated to stay with you. No one is obligated to stay with anyone, and no where did I suggest otherwise. An ultimatum of "marry or else" could very easily backfire for this person. She doesn't want to be without him, but could potentially lose him by doing that.

OP came here looking for help to try and encourage her BF to marry. People start telling her he must not love her, move on, etc. How about the fact that HE brought up marriage recently, and she has only brought it up once or twice since they have been together. Automatically he doesn't love her and she should tell him 6 months or it's over?? She could start with, oh, I don't know....talking to him about it. 



SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> PRECISELY MY POINT, tulsy! If *SHE* says she doesn't want to be his gf anymore (and she said it), if *SHE* says she wants to be his fiancee (and she did say it), then *SHE* should MAKE CLEAR what it is that SHE wants.
> 
> If it's ALSO what *HE* wants, GREAT! They'll be frickin HAPPY.
> If it's NOT, then SHE needs to move on and find someone that wants what SHE wants.
> ...


I agree that she should talk to her man, and I posted as such. Your 6 month deadline should probably NOT be her first kick at the can, but that's just my opinion.

I certainly didn't suggest everyone was like me. I do, however, have something in common with the OP's boyfriend. I have been a married man, and when people suggest that simply because he hasn't proposed yet that he must not love her, they have no business saying that. There are plenty of divorced men who are in committed relationships and they haven't all remarried...yet.

And if this is a deal-breaker for her, then by all means, she SHOULD leave. "I guess he never loved her enough" is complete crap. She can leave with the fact that she didn't want to wait to get married. All power to her.

OP has only brought up marriage once or twice in 5 years, and actually it was her boyfriend who brought up the fact that he has been thinking about it lately. Maybe she should start with opening up the lines of communication....


----------



## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

toomuchtotell said:


> If you want marriage, and he does not, you do not share very important life goals. I would leave him.


OP has only brought up marriage once or twice in the relationship....*her BF* was the person who brought it up recently. 

For all we know, he is interested in marriage, he is just looking for encouragement, throwing it out there, seeing her reaction....feeling her out, seeing all of her views on marriage, etc.

Since they haven't really talked about it very much, THAT should be the next move....talking about it, since everyone views marriage differently....

Why leave him? Why not talking to him about it? He brought up the topic of marriage, it was obviously on his mind....


----------



## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

From the original poster's 2nd post (bolding is mine):




Ijustwanttoknow said:


> I would sign a prenup. Yes I have a job. Yes I have my own home that I purchase by myself. Yes I have my own money. We do not live in the same household either. Thats the way I want to keep it for the time being. Im sorry that he has had a bad experience with his marriage but why should I or do I have to suffer from those experiences that he had with his ex? He married in his 20's and he is now in his 40s. Im in my 30's and have done really well for myself. I think I am a good catch honestly. Marriage is something that I always wanted for the right reasons...love, commitment etc. and not as a "gold digger". He allowed himself to experience marriage and maybe he doesn't want to get married again. I know he loves me and I love him. *Im just saying he knew from the very beginning of our relationship that marriage was something that I was looking for. He choose to continue on with the relationship as did I.* I would rather be with him as stated before, but I want us to experience things together as well. He knows Im not that type of person...he just tells me that he wants to be cautious when I talk to him about his commit phobia. Is he giving me false hope by saying he is starting to think about? I dont bring it up, I want him to want it to make sure he knows it right. No pressure from me what so ever. I have been dealing with this on my own and Ive only brought it up once or twice. I dont know. Im just really confused.


This is not some 'new idea' she has just recently sprung on him...he knew from the get-go that marriage was on HER agenda. I think he's strung her along for TOO LONG *knowing* she wanted marriage; and SHE has allowed it to go on for WAY TOO LONG.

.


----------



## justonelife (Jul 29, 2010)

I don't think the OP was looking for a debate on the pros and cons of marriage. Right or wrong, that's what she wants in her life. We are not here to convince her otherwise.

OP - You just have to talk to your bf. Let him know what you want and are willing to live with. Hopefully, he will be on the same page as you but if not, it's better to know now. Either way, we can't tell you what he wants. He has to tell you.


----------



## anonim (Apr 24, 2012)

hambone said:


> If he loved her... he would already have married her...


False. You dont have to be married to someone in order to love them. Nor do you want to marry someone because you love them. This is an immature notion IMO.



WorkingOnMe said:


> Can you list out the upside of marriage for him? Is there anything he gets with marriage that he can't get without it? There is a long list of downsides. Financial issues, potential alimony, diminished sex life. Most everything gets worse with marriage. What are the upsides?


:iagree: Try to look at it from the male perspective, what are your gains vs. his gains, your losses vs. his losses.



SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> Just some food for thought (sorry other TAMers who've heard this before).
> 
> Have a cousin who dated a woman for TEN YEARS. Part of that time they lived together. He FLAT OUT TOLD HER he didn't want to get married. She hung in there anyway.
> 
> ...


Absence of marriage did not cause this though, you can see that there are plenty of married people who do the exact same thing if you care to look in the CWI subforum. What happened here has everything to do with the people involved and nothing to do with being (or not being) married.

It is unfair and disrespectful to offer an ultimatum under the guise of love, to force, cajole or coerce someone into doing something they are not entirely comfortable with doing. You have the option of ending the relationship if you are not happy with it but it is weak to try to make someone else make that decision for you and ultimately, it is your decision.



Viseral said:


> What he's going through is perfectly understandable. What you need to be aware of is that marriage is stacked against men in traditional, legal, and financial terms. He's been burned before and even if he can't articulate it, he knows it's true.
> 
> In your dating relationship you two enjoy an equal balance of power. Understand that by pushing for marriage you're threatening to alter the balance of power between you.
> 
> ...


:iagree:



IsGirl3 said:


> You deserve someone who is so crazy about you that he wants to marry you. *At your age, you shouldn't be with someone for more than a year, if you're not talking marriage.*


This is something that, should it rear its ugly head, should be ran away from at a full sprint! 

One year is not enough by a long stretch, to know somebody intimately enough to know that you should marry them, even if you lived with them, there are far too many variables in a person to learn how they behave in an exceptional circumstances, like if a loved one dies, if they get severely ill, if they get a major improvement in the quality of life, etc.


----------



## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

So - you should wait until their mom dies, they get cancer, or they get a job promotion to know if you should marry them?

I mean - the first two might not happen until 10 or 20 years into a relationship particularly if the people are young. So - that seems an unrealistic requirement.


----------



## whitecat (May 17, 2013)

Ijustwanttoknow said:


> I would sign a prenup. Yes I have a job. Yes I have my own home that I purchase by myself. Yes I have my own money. We do not live in the same household either. Thats the way I want to keep it for the time being. Im sorry that he has had a bad experience with his marriage but why should I or do I have to suffer from those experiences that he had with his ex? He married in his 20's and he is now in his 40s. Im in my 30's and have done really well for myself. I think I am a good catch honestly. Marriage is something that I always wanted for the right reasons...love, commitment etc. and not as a "gold digger". He allowed himself to experience marriage and maybe he doesn't want to get married again. I know he loves me and I love him. Im just saying he knew from the very beginning of our relationship that marriage was something that I was looking for. He choose to continue on with the relationship as did I. I would rather be with him as stated before, but I want us to experience things together as well. He knows Im not that type of person...he just tells me that he wants to be cautious when I talk to him about his commit phobia. Is he giving me false hope by saying he is starting to think about? I dont bring it up, I want him to want it to make sure he knows it right. No pressure from me what so ever. I have been dealing with this on my own and Ive only brought it up once or twice. I dont know. Im just really confused.


I'm sorry. He may love you, but he doesn't love you enough. If he really loved you nothing on earth would prevent him from committing to you. Why settle for less? Don't waste another minute of your life with someone who isn't really that into you. 

My husband was also commitment shy. He had been a bachelor all his life and he was very comfortable. He was in his 40's when we met. When I realized he was dragging his feet, after a few months of being together (Yes I knew right away that I wanted to get married), I said, It's been nice knowing you. Have a nice life! He came running after me and begged me to come back. We've been married almost 15 years and he tells me all the time that I'm the best thing that's happened to him. So don't settle!


----------



## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

Ijustwanttoknow said:


> My boyfriend and I have been together for almost 5 years. However...I want to progress our relationship towards marriage but he is a little hesitant. Not from anything I have done, he is hesitant because he was burned in his previous marriage (bad divorced). How do I get him over this without being pushy or demanding. I try not to mention marriage because I want him to be ready. We could be perfect together. We are great together, it's just this wall that he wont let down. He told me that yes he is a little cautious and thinks that marriage changes people. I can't prove to him that I am not his ex and I would never hurt him. I have given him several years and I feel he is the one for me. I just don't know if I should continue this relationship. I can't see myself without him dont get me wrong, however he has told me that he has thought about marriage lately. But I dont know if he is just saying that to keep me around? I no long want to think that I am not good enough to fully commit to. Help...


You have already been together for 5 years, so how long are you going to keep waiting? 

If he hasn't proposed by now, it is unlikely he ever will. If I were you, I would move on and find someone who is looking for a future spouse and shares that same life goal. 

A good friend of mine was in your situation and stuck around for 7 years with her bf who never proposed. She finally left him and now, a year and a half later is married to her husband who was excited to marry her. He didn't drag his feet like her ex and wanted to marry her. You deserve to find that. Don't stay with a guy who is afraid of marriage.


----------



## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

Anonymous07 said:


> You have already been together for 5 years, so how long are you going to keep waiting?
> 
> If he hasn't proposed by now, it is unlikely he ever will. If I were you, I would move on and find someone who is looking for a future spouse and shares that same life goal.
> 
> A good friend of mine was in your situation and stuck around for 7 years with her bf who never proposed. She finally left him and now, a year and a half later is married to her husband who was excited to marry her. He didn't drag his feet like her ex and wanted to marry her. You deserve to find that. Don't stay with a guy who is afraid of marriage.


If you've been dating for more than 18 months.. or two years... and you're not married. You shouldn't get married... 

You need to break up so you can find someone you love enough to marry...


What does it mean when a guy says that he's afraid of commitment? What it means is that he doesn't love that particular girl enough to be permanently committed to her.

When a guy finds someone he truely loves.. he won't mind being married...


----------



## Viseral (Feb 25, 2011)

hambone said:


> If you've been dating for more than 18 months.. or two years... and you're not married. You shouldn't get married...
> 
> You need to break up so you can find someone you love enough to marry...
> 
> ...


Disagree, most men who don't want to commit are afraid of the laws that govern marriage and divorce. 

They may very well be deeply in love with the woman they're with, they just don't want to subject themselves to a system which has already screwed them over in the past. 

Marriage is a threesome between two partners and the state. Many men would prefer to leave the state out of it, and for good reason.

Don't equate lack of legal commitment to lack of love.


----------



## Ijustwanttoknow (Jun 16, 2013)

Well I thank everyone for their input. I know ultimately it's my decision. 

I was looking for your input when I posted on here as I was at the end of the rope (confused, upset, and needed advice). I wanted to get some reviews from people who doesn't know my bf and I or our relationship. Meaning, I can talk to my friends all the time about this issue but since they know me, I don't want them to side with me. No way would they have given him a fair chance just based on the years we have been together.

Im wanting to be fair here. No ULTIMATUMS, dont want to force him to marry me, or love me. I want everything to come natural which it has except taking our relationship a little further. Is that so much to ask? When all I want is to complete and seal what we have? There are no traps, no hidden agenda..nothing. Just pure love between he and I. Yes, He is cautious because somehow he thinks that he is going to be in the same predicament of a divorce somewhere down the road; and afraid he will have to start all over once again and afraid of losing me.

I want to be able to ease his fears of that. Comfort him, support him, but sometimes I feel like I am being punished for what his ex put him through. He is such a good man all across the board. He is someone that I can live the rest of my life with. Im not using marriage as a tool to prove weather or not he loves me. However, I dont want a phony marriage either. Yes he had everything stripped from him with the divorce and he had to start all over. I helped him, I was there. 

Since that time, I have done nothing but supported him and helped build him up. He bought a house, something I am sure he needed to do for himself. I supported him and helped some financially no problem, that's what I wanted to do. Now in our relationship we have two houses. Someday we will use these homes for investment property. If it don't work out, we will both have a house to go back to. 

I believe he is scared of the legal part of it as well, but I dont want him to lose out on something that could be really good between the both of us, by being so wrapped up in the failure before it even happens. Thats where I am coming from when I say should I invest anymore time. Although he told me he hasn't totally written off marriage, I dont want him to use that as a means of keeping me around either.


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Can you list out the upside of marriage for him? Is there anything he gets with marriage that he can't get without it? There is a long list of downsides. Financial issues, potential alimony, diminished sex life. Most everything gets worse with marriage. What are the upsides?


This guy's good.

I have nothing more to add except "quoted for truth".

Ok I lied I am adding to my post because I just read this:



SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> You tell him straight out, "You know that marriage (kids?) is a deal-breaker for me. We've been together FIVE YEARS and I'm done waiting patiently for you to decide what you want. I love you, but I am not living in limbo any more. The decision is ENTIRELY YOURS at this point. ARE WE GETTING MARRIED in the next 6 months (12months, whatever YOUR timeframe is) or are we breaking up? I am fully prepared to do either. I want to know by Sunday morning (Saturday evening, again, YOUR timeframe).


OMG this is awful.

If a GF said this to me I'd say "I don't need until Sunday morning to tell you goodbye".

Odds are any chick that would force an ultimatum like that down her BF's throat would be the first to crumble after he kicks her and her ridiculous ultimatum to the curb and cry out "ok you don't have to marry me just don't leave me!" but of course it would be too late. What guy would stay with that?

Ok I lied again and I am adding yet something else.



Ijustwanttoknow said:


> Im wanting to be fair here. No ULTIMATUMS, dont want to force him to marry me
> 
> I believe he is scared of the legal part of it as well, but I dont want him to lose out on something that could be really good between the both of us


You sound like a smart woman. Start researching divorce rates and the many reasons people just don't stay together for the long haul. People are really not built and engineered to spend their entire lives together, we only think we are. With rare exception, things get stale down the road no matter how great it seems right NOW. Enjoy each other for whatever amount of time it works.. whether its another 5 years or 50 years. Some old piece of paper with your signatures on it doesn't really make it any more special, it just makes it more expensive and difficult to extricate yourself when and if things go bad.


----------



## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

I actually gave my now-husband an ultimatum. 

He'd been back and forth on getting married for four out of the then-five years we'd been together. I had made it clear at the outset I was looking for something serious leading to marriage.

Eventually I'd had enough and told him he had until the end of the year (it was November) to set a date or I was "reconsidering our relationship." I made plans. I also made it clear the effort had to come from him. I was fully prepared practically and emotionally if he didn't want to. 

Cut a long story short, we got married three months later. Just me and him at the register office. No fancy wedding or engagement ring. Our honeymoon was a long weekend away.

The ultimatum thing can work... I think it depends on the circumstances. Does your partner just not want to marry or is unsure?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

Viseral said:


> Disagree, most men who don't want to commit are afraid of the laws that govern marriage and divorce.
> 
> They may very well be deeply in love with the woman they're with, they just don't want to subject themselves to a system which has already screwed them over in the past.
> 
> ...


When a man says he's afraid of commitment... what it means is that he's doesn't want to commit to that particular girl.

When you are truly in love.. All those other things don't matter. Why? Because you love her and you have no expectation of ever getting divorced.

If you aren't married in a couple of years... you need to move on and find someone that you are willing to commit to...

Or, put another way.. if you can't commit to that particular girl... let her go so she can find someone who will. 


Stop wasting your time and her time. Either commit or move on. It's not fair to either of you.


People do what they want to do. When they don't want to do it.. they make excuses. That's what you are doing... Making excuses.


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

tobio said:


> I actually gave my now-husband an ultimatum.
> The ultimatum thing can work...


It didn't work for you.

I took a look at all the threads you started since you got married 2 years ago. Nothing but problems. 

Such as this one (and you've got many more threads just like it):



tobio said:


> So this is my cry for help...
> I think it's safe to say we're in a rough spot. I feel pretty unhappy. We've only been married six months and I feel sad that I feel like this in our first year.
> 
> 
> ...



Ultimatums do not work.

You cannot force a person to feel a certain way.

If you try, it will most certainly backfire.


----------



## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

lenzi said:


> It didn't work for you.
> 
> I took a look at all the threads you started since you got married 2 years ago. Nothing but problems.
> 
> ...


And then to turn around and encourage others to offer an ultimatum....baffling.


----------



## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

lenzi said:


> It didn't work for you.
> 
> I took a look at all the threads you started since you got married 2 years ago. Nothing but problems.
> 
> ...


You are correct... Ultimatums do not work. That's why I believe if you aren't married in 2 years or so... and you want to get married... you need to break up.. 

Go find someone who does want to be married to you.

That's better than marrying someone who you'll almost assuredly be divorced from in a few years...

If love is not there.. it's not there and being married won't make it happen..


----------



## whitecat (May 17, 2013)

It works both ways. I don't think it's fair for anyone to go into a relationship with the intent to change that person. You knew going into this relationship that he has commitment issues. Five years later you are still pressing the issue? If it's a big deal for you, then leave. Otherwise quit trying to change him. Accept this is how he is. It must be wearing to live day in and day out hoping that he will change his mind.


----------



## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

Just a question....What's more important?

a) the relationship with this incredible guy you love being with, and can't imagine life without

b) being married (to anyone)

If being married is more important, than tell him that. Tell him that ultimately, being married is more important to you than continuing the relationship with him.

I don't think it is. I think he is more important to you, but you want both and he may or may not be ready yet....you won't know until you guys start talking about it more. 

It seems like you want him to propose to you...ever thought about proposing to him? Or does that not fit with how you planned your life, the whole romantic, down on one knee old fashioned type of proposal? I'm only asking because it seems like that is why you are not bringing up marriage, you are just waiting for him to want to marry you, and for him to just propose at some point, sooner the better.


----------



## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

Admittedly I haven't experienced any of this but wouldn't it be better to set a internal deadline without telling the other partner and just leave if they won't commit. Not sure how I would feel about a marriage that happen because of an ultimatum


----------



## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

hambone said:


> If you've been dating for more than 18 months.. or two years... and you're not married...


IMO, 18 months is not long enough. Even 2 years is too short of a period of time to judge how you are going to feel for the rest of your life. You don't know the person very well in such a short period of time, and you are blinded by love-goggles. I don't think this is very good advice for anyone.


----------



## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

committed4ever said:


> Admittedly I haven't experienced any of this but wouldn't it be better to set a internal deadline without telling the other partner and just leave if they won't commit. Not sure how I would feel about a marriage that happen because of an ultimatum


No, because anyone you would marry, you should be able to talk to the person about marriage. You should not keep this stuff inside, it should be discussed regularly through the course of the relationship.


----------



## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

whitecat said:


> It works both ways. I don't think it's fair for anyone to go into a relationship with the intent to change that person. You knew going into this relationship that he has commitment issues. Five years later you are still pressing the issue? If it's a big deal for you, then leave. Otherwise quit trying to change him. Accept this is how he is. It must be wearing to live day in and day out hoping that he will change his mind.


If you're dating a guy who doesn't want to be committed to you...

and you twist his arm to get him to marry you.

What have you got?

You're married to a man that might be legally committed to you but in his heart, he isn't committed to the relationship. I don't see that ending well...


----------



## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

tulsy said:


> No, because anyone you would marry, you should be able to talk to the person about marriage. You should not keep this stuff inside, it should be discussed regularly through the course of the relationship.


I'm just talking about an ultimatum not marriage itself. I do agree that discussing marriage is essential. Ok and to be honest we didn't discuss anything. Our "Courtship " broke all the rules but were too young to know any better (well at least I was)


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

hambone said:


> You're married to a man that might be legally committed to you but in his heart, he isn't committed to the relationship. I don't see that ending well...


Lots of people get married who aren't committed to the relationship and there are lots of people in committed relationships who choose not to get married.


----------



## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

lenzi said:


> Lots of people get married who aren't committed to the relationship and there are lots of people in committed relationships who choose not to get married.


And, how do you think those marriages in which the couple of not committed... how do you think that's going to end? You think they will live happily ever after? Or go through a miserable divorce?

And those people who are committed... but not married.. I would argue they have commitments to something that is more important to them than their relationship.

I question if a lot of people truly understand, truly know what real love feels like.

I've only been truly in love with one woman... my wife.


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

hambone said:


> And, how do you think those marriages in which the couple of not committed... how do you think that's going to end? You think they will live happily ever after? Or go through a miserable divorce?


Not sure why it matters, but I think that some uncommitted couples find a way to make it work and they get by for a very long time. They sort of cohabitate and take care of one another and it's more of a friendship than a relationship but hey whatever works. Others see a deterioration and they no longer get along, some of them still stay in the marriage for all the wrong reasons, and others divorce. 



hambone said:


> And those people who are committed... but not married.. I would argue they have commitments to something that is more important to them than their relationship. [/uote]
> 
> And I would argue that many of those people who stay unmarried realize that marriage doesn't really mean anything and it doesn't escalate the relationship to some higher level just because you've signed what is really nothing more than a financial contract that is broken more times than not.
> 
> ...


----------



## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

tulsy said:


> IMO, 18 months is not long enough. Even 2 years is too short of a period of time to judge how you are going to feel for the rest of your life. You don't know the person very well in such a short period of time, and you are blinded by love-goggles. I don't think this is very good advice for anyone.


I disagree. If you go into a relationship with the mindset of finding a spouse, then you know what you are looking for and shouldn't waste your time with those who won't make a good spouse or don't want to get married. You look for certain qualities, the same life goals, and compatibility. All of that can be determined after a year of dating and if the guy drags his feet, then you move on. Why waste time? I met and married my husband in a 3 year time span. We share the same values and life goals, and he was excited to propose to me. I wouldn't want to be with a man who didn't want to marry me, and we both think marriage is important. If my husband was hesitant about marrying me, I would have left him. I love him more than anyone, but I place a lot of value in marriage(good stability for a family, ultimate show of commitment/love, etc.), so if he was afraid to get married, I'd move on.


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Anonymous07 said:


> You look for certain qualities, the same life goals, and compatibility. All of that can be determined after a year of dating


You think you really know whether or not you're going to want to be with a person for the rest of your life after knowing them only a year? Wow. I've read countless stories here and other forums where a person's true colors and real history comes out years down the line and it's not pretty.



Anonymous07 said:


> and if the guy drags his feet, then you move on. Why waste time?


It's not a waste of a time if you're spending time together, learning about one another and building the relationship over time. It's not like it's all a sham until you say your vows and sign on the dotted line. Every relationship I've ever had was worth the time and effort I put into it even though most of them did not go the distance. There were fun times, great times, lots of experience gained, lots of great sex and I don't regret it for a single minute.



Anonymous07 said:


> I place a lot of value in marriage(good stability for a family, ultimate show of commitment/love, etc.)


The current statistics show that more marriages end in divorce than remain intact. How can you say that marriage is an ultimate show of commitment when marriage overall has a greater than 50% failure rate?

Marriage is only an ultimate show of commitment and stability until it isn't.

*Edited to add*

I looked at some of your back posts.



Anonymous07 said:


> My husband and I have not been married very long, but we have struggled since the very beginning.





Anonymous07 said:


> I got married last summer and almost from day one of our marriage, we have had issues.
> I just feel like I have had enough. My husband and I haven't really spoken at all last night or today. He left early this morning without saying goodbye.
> 
> How do you know when enough is enough? When do you call it quits?
> ...





Anonymous07 said:


> I am in some desperate need of help and sadly have only been married for a short 2 weeks.
> 
> I don't know what happened to the loving man I knew.


Sigh...


----------



## Viseral (Feb 25, 2011)

For many men, their "feelings" for their partner are completely separate from their willingness to enter into a legal contract that's financially bad for them. It's two separate things.

Look in the CWI section and see how many relationships are destroyed due to infidelity. 

Rational men love their partners but balk at the concept of entering a legal contract that will hurt them severely especially given the statistics on divorce. Namely, the 50% divorce rate, and that 70% of divorces are initiated by women.


----------



## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

Viseral said:


> For many men, their "feelings" for their partner are completely separate from their willingness to enter into a legal contract that's financially bad for them. It's two separate things.
> 
> Look in the CWI section and see how many relationships are destroyed due to infidelity.
> 
> Rational men love their partners but balk at the concept of entering a legal contract that will hurt them severely especially given the statistics on divorce. Namely, the 50% divorce rate, and that 70% of divorces are initiated by women.


When you find someone you truly... hard down love... Someone that just makes you feel absolutely wonderful.. someone who consumes your every thought..

All those rationalizations you have will not even enter the picture.


----------



## Viseral (Feb 25, 2011)

hambone said:


> When you find someone you truly... hard down love... Someone that just makes you feel absolutely wonderful.. someone who consumes your every thought..
> 
> All those rationalizations you have will not even enter the picture.


If we based all our financial decisions based on feelings we'd all be in a heck of a lot of trouble.


----------



## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

lenzi said:


> You think you really know whether or not you're going to want to be with a person for the rest of your life after knowing them only a year? Wow. I've read countless stories here and other forums where a person's true colors and real history comes out years down the line and it's not pretty.


Absolutely, a year is enough. If both people are going into the relationship with the mindset of finding a future spouse, then it should be fine. My husband and I were open and honest about what we were looking for and what we wanted. We don't play games. We both had specific things we were looking for in a spouse and we found that in each other. 



lenzi said:


> It's not a waste of a time if you're spending time together, learning about one another and building the relationship over time. It's not like it's all a sham until you say your vows and sign on the dotted line. Every relationship I've ever had was worth the time and effort I put into it even though most of them did not go the distance. There were fun times, great times, lots of experience gained, lots of great sex and I don't regret it for a single minute.


I don't believe in 'playing house' and wouldn't give that much of myself to just anyone unless I knew the relationship was leading to marriage. I never lived with my husband prior to marriage and I am glad I never did. We learned about each other through courting and experiences we went through together. 




lenzi said:


> The current statistics show that more marriages end in divorce than remain intact. How can you say that marriage is an ultimate show of commitment when marriage overall has a greater than 50% failure rate?


So because so many marriages fail, it isn't a good decision? That's a sad way of thinking. I've always valued marriage and learned a lot by watching my parents marriage, along with other family members and family friends. My parents have been happily married for over 30 years. It isn't easy all the time and there are ups and downs, but you stick through it. 

We are shaped by our experiences, so I have a feeling you had some bad experiences to have such a negative view on marriage. 



lenzi said:


> I looked at some of your back posts.
> Sigh...


My husband has issues with dealing with stress and it's something we're working on. I don't know many people who have had so much happen(big life events) in such a short time span as we have(marriage, pregnancy, health issues, graduating college, etc.) all within a year. It's a lot to deal with, and with all of that, I would still choose my husband.


----------



## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

lenzi said:


> Not sure why it matters, but I think that some uncommitted couples find a way to make it work and they get by for a very long time. They sort of cohabitate and take care of one another and it's more of a friendship than a relationship but hey whatever works. Others see a deterioration and they no longer get along, some of them still stay in the marriage for all the wrong reasons, and others divorce.
> 
> 
> And I would argue that many of those people who stay unmarried realize that marriage doesn't really mean anything and it doesn't escalate the relationship to some higher level just because you've signed what is really nothing more than a financial contract that is broken more times than not.
> ...


Have you ever gone through a divorce? It is absolutely the most miserable experience you'll ever go through. And I was happy to be divorced!

If one person is not committed to a relationship and get's arm twisted into marriage. I'd say the chances that it will end in divorce is about 100%. Much, much better to break up and find someone else than to marry someone who doesn't want to be married to you. That is why it matters. 

If you want to co-habit... have a relationship that is mutually beneficial etc. etc. That's fine.. But you are settling... Doing that with someone you love.. and being married to them is much more satisfying. 

If you are in a relationship and your commitment to them, your love for them isn't strong enough to compel you to marry them. Do yourself and your partner a favor, don't settle, break up. 

You aren't going to find your true love while you're tied up with someone else.


----------



## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

OP,

Many people that have been married & go through a divorce never want to re-marry. Sort of a been there done that situation. Then throw in a hellish divorce...well you get the picture. This does not mean they are unable to love their partners & it is ridiculous to automatically assume that if someone doesn't want to marry their partner that they "don't love them enough."

I know elderly couples who have lived together for years - unmarried for all different reasons - mostly financial - widows collecting pensions that stop if they remarry, etc. & I can assure you these couples love each very much, are committed & happy.

Another example is my ex husband. He loves money  & feels he lost too many zeros in our divorce LOL. He is 60 yrs. old & plans to never remarry again but has had 2 long term girlfriends - again both divorced & content not to remarry.

Now I realize these are examples of older people who HAVE experienced marriage. If marriage is what YOU want, then ask your boyfriend to marry you (asking doesn't HAVE to be gender specific). If marriage is your goal, take the steps to achieve it rather than "hope" he someday may ask you.

Hope is not a plan.


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

hambone said:


> Have you ever gone through a divorce? It is absolutely the most miserable experience you'll ever go through.


Yes I went through an ugly miserable expensive divorce.



hambone said:


> If you want to co-habit... have a relationship that is mutually beneficial etc. etc. That's fine.. But you are settling... Doing that with someone you love.. and being married to them is much more satisfying.


I completely disagree that living with someone in a committed relationship but not marrying them is in some way "settling" and "less satisfying" than making some promises (that can and are easily broken), buying a ring (that can be pawned) and signing a piece of paper (that can be invalidated by a divorce judge's stamp).





hambone said:


> When you find someone you truly... hard down love... Someone that just makes you feel absolutely wonderful.. someone who consumes your every thought..
> 
> All those rationalizations you have will not even enter the picture.


That's the problem with emotions. They preclude rational thought and lead to very bad decisions.



Anonymous07 said:


> Absolutely, a year is enough. If both people are going into the relationship with the mindset of finding a future spouse, then it should be fine. My husband and I were open and honest about what we were looking for and what we wanted. We don't play games. We both had specific things we were looking for in a spouse and we found that in each other.





Anonymous07 said:


> I would still choose my husband.


Yet your marriage is rapidly failing, it's been rocky from day one, and you are considering divorce after only a few short months because you don't know what happened to the man you fell in love with.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Ijustwanttoknow said:


> How do I get him over this


You don't. It's his issue to deal with. You cannot make him or force him to do anything/feel anything/do anything/believe anything.

So you can only work at it from your angle...in the sense that: what if he NEVER wants to get married? Is that ok with you? if it's not, bail. If you still want to be with him, married or not, stay. 

He may come around to the idea. But he may not. And if he doesn't, what's your plan of action? You need to realize, that he may never change his mind. If that is the case, then what?


----------



## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

Emerald said:


> OP, If marriage is what YOU want, then ask your boyfriend to marry you (asking doesn't HAVE to be gender specific). If marriage is your goal, take the steps to achieve it rather than "hope" he someday may ask you.
> 
> Hope is not a plan.


:iagree: 




lenzi said:


> Yet your marriage is rapidly failing and you are considering divorce after only a few short months because you don't know what happened to the man you fell in love with.


My marriage hit a rough patch, but does not mean it was a mistake or is failing. If you read my earlier post, we're dealing with a lot right now and my emotions can be off(I'm 9 months pregnant  ). My marriage is fine and the man I married is still here. Even with everything, I'd marry him again in a heart beat. I know my husband and we're working on our marriage. 

Just because you went through "an ugly, miserable divorce", does not mean all others will to. I expected that with how you view marriage. I'm sorry you went through that, but it doesn't mean everyone should avoid marriage. Marriage is a wonderful act of love, to show the ultimate level of commitment and give stability to have a family.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Ijustwanttoknow said:


> Im wanting to be fair here. No ULTIMATUMS, dont want to force him to marry me, or love me.



Good. This is the way to be.



Ijustwanttoknow said:


> I want everything to come natural which it has except taking our relationship a little further. Is that so much to ask?



Also good that you want to have everything happen naturally but realize: taking the relationship "a little further" has to happen when you mutually want it. Imagine him just marrying you cause you said you wanted to when he wasn't really feeling it. I can't imagine anything worse.

Now, what that said: you have a right to your feelings, completely. And so does he. If marriage is a dealbreaker for you and you will refuse to stay with him if he doesn't marry you, then if he doesn't want to, you need to decide if staying or leaving is best for YOU. Because again, mutually, you should want the same thing for your relationship.

Have you ever asked him where he sees the relationship going in the future? It may get you insight.




Ijustwanttoknow said:


> Yes he had everything stripped from him with the divorce and he had to start all over. I helped him, I was there.
> 
> Since that time, I have done nothing but supported him and helped build him up.


Question: Were you guys involved with eachother before he got divorced? Did you have a romantic relationship before his left his wife? During? etc?



Ijustwanttoknow said:


> Yes, He is cautious because somehow he thinks that he is going to be in the same predicament of a divorce somewhere down the road; and afraid he will have to start all over once again and afraid of losing me.
> 
> I want to be able to ease his fears of that. Comfort him, support him, but sometimes I feel like I am being punished for what his ex put him through.
> 
> I believe he is scared of the legal part of it as well, but I dont want him to lose out on something that could be really good between the both of us, by being so wrapped up in the failure before it even happens. Thats where I am coming from when I say should I invest anymore time. Although he told me he hasn't totally written off marriage, I dont want him to use that as a means of keeping me around either.



I hear where you are coming from. I get that you want to marry this guy, that you love him. I am writing to you from his perspective, just so you have an eyeball into what he "may" be thinking. As someone who has been him, and is afraid to marry again, I see his point of view. For me, just because people are married doesn't mean they are committed with their heart. So I look at marriage again, for myself, with a crinkled eye now. I have done it before and it's not something I feel is necessary to do again. Is that punishment for the next person/significant other? No. I don't see it that way. I just see it as me knowing myself and not really believing in the the institution, for myself. (I know plenty of folks who marry, have good marriages and I admire them). It's just that for me, I'm not sure I trust it. Divorce was a devastating experience for me and this is what your guy may be thinking. 

Just trying to give you a point of view from the other side.


----------



## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

lenzi said:


> It didn't work for you.
> 
> I took a look at all the threads you started since you got married 2 years ago. Nothing but problems.
> 
> ...


Lenzi - all relationships (married or no) have 'rough spots'. Typically, they work through them and many even become stronger.

This is a site dedicated to helping people with marriage, hence the name Talk about Marriage so you're going to find the viewpoint heavily skewed in that direction.

Taking bits and pieces of things that folks post in a time of need only shows small vignettes and not the overall picture. It's like judging 12 years of marriage by a single month of sexlessness and saying it will never change and they should give up on the whole thing.

To the OP, I'd say this requires a straight and direct conversation. Think about why you WANT to be married and present that to your SO along with the steps you would be willing to take, prenup, counseling, etc. to make it more comfortable for them to be willing to take that step.


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> Lenzi - all relationships (married or no) have 'rough spots'. Typically, they work through them and many even become stronger.
> 
> This is a site dedicated to helping people with marriage, hence the name Talk about Marriage so you're going to find the viewpoint heavily skewed in that direction.
> 
> ...


QFT.Couldn't have put it better myself.


----------



## Ijustwanttoknow (Jun 16, 2013)

whitecat said:


> It works both ways. I don't think it's fair for anyone to go into a relationship with the intent to change that person. You knew going into this relationship that he has commitment issues. Five years later you are still pressing the issue? If it's a big deal for you, then leave. Otherwise quit trying to change him. Accept this is how he is. It must be wearing to live day in and day out hoping that he will change his mind.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> Taking bits and pieces of things that folks post in a time of need only shows small vignettes and not the overall picture. It's like judging 12 years of marriage by a single month of sexlessness and saying it will never change and they should give up on the whole thing.


Bits and pieces?

The poster who advocates getting married within a year has over a dozen recent posts about how bad her marriage has been from day one, they're only together a few months, and she's considering divorcing him because he's not the same man she thought he was prior to getting married and yet she'd "chose him again to be her husband"..?

I get this site tends to be pro-marriage, that doesn't mean marriage is a good thing or a greater level of commitment than a committed exclusive relationship without marriage, or that people should get married within a year because anything longer is an unsatisfying waste of time.


----------



## Ijustwanttoknow (Jun 16, 2013)

whitecat said:


> It works both ways. I don't think it's fair for anyone to go into a relationship with the intent to change that person. You knew going into this relationship that he has commitment issues. Five years later you are still pressing the issue? If it's a big deal for you, then leave. Otherwise quit trying to change him. Accept this is how he is. It must be wearing to live day in and day out hoping that he will change his mind.


You've missed the whole point. I DONT WANT TO CHANGE HIM. I said that when we FIRST started dating he KNEW what I wanted. He didn't show commitment issues in the begining I was lead to believe by HIM that he wanted our relationship to lead towards marriage too! AGAIN!! I am NOT Pressing the issue. WOW


----------



## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

lenzi said:


> Bits and pieces?
> 
> The poster who advocates getting married within a year has over a dozen posts about how bad her marriage has been from day one, they're only together a few months, and she's considering divorcing him because he's not the same man she thinks he was prior to getting married and yet she'd "chose him again to be her husband"..?
> 
> I get this site tends to be pro-marriage, that doesn't mean marriage is a good thing or a greater level of commitment than a committed exclusive relationship without marriage, or that people should get married within a year because anything longer is an unsatisfying waste of time.


It also doesn't mean that marriage is a bad thing. I can tell you that often the first year of marriage IS the hardest to overcome. Many couples talk during that time about divorcing because they're trying to adjust to something new. Hub and I sought out a great MC who was extremely instrumental in helping us build better communication with each other and our children. I was really saddened that she was unavailable when we hit a rough spot at the 9 year mark as I think it would have made that spot a lot shorter.

Now, back to the OP's point, this is something that should be discussed directly and clearly to determine together a resolution that both can live with.


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Ijustwanttoknow said:


> You've missed the whole point. I DONT WANT TO CHANGE HIM. I said that when we FIRST started dating he KNEW what I wanted. He didn't show commitment issues in the begining I was lead to believe by HIM that he wanted our relationship to lead towards marriage too! AGAIN!! I am NOT Pressing the issue. WOW


 So he changed his mind on you.Or he just told you what he thought you wanted to hear at the beginning so you'd stay w/him.

do you feel he loves you as much as you need to be loved?does his unwillingness to marry you send off any warnings in your head that you might be ignoring at all?


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Ijustwanttoknow said:


> I was lead to believe by HIM that he wanted our relationship to lead towards marriage too!


He told you he wanted to get married when you first met him?

All I found in your posts was this:



Ijustwanttoknow said:


> He allowed himself to experience marriage and maybe he doesn't want to get married again. I know he loves me and I love him. Im just saying he knew from the very beginning of our relationship that marriage was something that I was looking for. He choose to continue on with the relationship as did I.


Him knowing that you were looking for a guy to marry is way different than him saying "I am looking for a woman to marry". It's clear from your post that he was burned before and maybe he isn't looking to marry again.


----------



## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

lenzi said:


> Bits and pieces?
> 
> The poster who advocates getting married within a year has over a dozen recent posts about how bad her marriage has been from day one, they're only together a few months, and she's considering divorcing him because he's not the same man she thought he was prior to getting married and yet she'd "chose him again to be her husband"..?
> 
> I get this site tends to be pro-marriage, that doesn't mean marriage is a good thing or a greater level of commitment than a committed exclusive relationship without marriage, or that people should get married within a year because anything longer is an unsatisfying waste of time.


Marriage IS a good thing. Just because some people sucked at it doesn't change that. Some people are awful parents. Doesn't mean parenthood is awful.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Ijustwanttoknow said:


> You've missed the whole point. I DONT WANT TO CHANGE HIM. I said that when we FIRST started dating he KNEW what I wanted. He didn't show commitment issues in the begining I was lead to believe by HIM that he wanted our relationship to lead towards marriage too! AGAIN!! I am NOT Pressing the issue. WOW


At what point did you get involved with him? You didn't say? But you mentioned being there during his divorce. So were you involved w/ him before he got divorced, did you have a relationship with him prior to him separating from wife or how did it go down? You haven't said.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

committed4ever said:


> Marriage IS a good thing. Just because some people sucked at it doesn't change that. Some people are awful parents. Doesn't mean parenthood is awful.


And it doesn't mean all marriages are great. 

See what I just did there? 

You just proved the original point you were trying to dispel.


----------



## chazmataz3 (May 29, 2013)

maybe you could try something like,:do you ever see us married with kids? I don't see how asking a question is pushing him toward marriage.I see a situation with a big elephant in the room.like you said,he is hesitant and hes going to remain so until its discussed.


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

committed4ever said:


> Marriage IS a good thing. Just because some people sucked at it doesn't change that. Some people are awful parents. Doesn't mean parenthood is awful.


You are comparing marriage to parenting to make your point?

Marriage is an artificial construct, a legal union fabricated by society which includes signing paperwork, exchanging rings, and doing other things that vary by culture.

Parenting is natural, instinctive and not some sort of social invention.

The two are completely beyond comparison.

As far as some people being good at something and other's not, so what? 

There are good relationships, there are bad relationships..most relationships fail, which is why we don't usually end up with the first person we meet. Most marriages fail as well so if you're looking at the numbers, it's more accurate to say that in general marriage is NOT a good thing although there are exceptions.


----------



## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> And it doesn't mean all marriages are great.
> 
> See what I just did there?
> 
> You just proved the original point you were trying to dispel.


You really didn't do anything. The point I was trying to dispel was that marriage as an institution is NOT great. I said some people sucked at it. If you sucked at it doesn't that sort of imply that your marriage wouldn't be great?


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

committed4ever said:


> You really didn't do anything. The point I was trying to dispel was that marriage as an institution is NOT great. I said some people sucked at it. If you sucked at it doesn't that sort of imply that your marriage wouldn't be great?


You didn't dispel any points, not by saying "some" people saying suck at marriage.

The divorce rate is well over 50% and climbing.

"Most" people suck at marriage, not "some". When "most" of something is not good or great, then it cannot be considered "good" or "great".


----------



## Ijustwanttoknow (Jun 16, 2013)

lenzi said:


> He told you he wanted to get married when you first met him?
> 
> All I found in your posts was this:
> 
> ...


We had this talk around out 2 years of being together. Not as soon as we got together. I hope you were trying to be sarcastic with that question. 

Naturally I didn't post my whole history of my relationship on this site when I only ask two questions in the original post with a little back ground. 

This was my first time posting to this site. There are some people who would like to think that they are over a issue when deep down they really werent. (bf) He had been divorce long before we even met. There were no signs of him struggling with commitment at all. We talked about it, and he has told me that he is thinking about marriage more, but he wants to be cautious, to make sure it's something HE wants to do again. Im trying to figure out if his failed marriage means that he will hold on to this failure forever. However...once again...he hasn't totally written off marriage.

I thought this site was for encouraging advice be it good or bad. 

I was hoping for positive information. not people telling me he doesn't love me enough...What? I know he loves me. I just want ways to show him that I support him. 

I realize I was going to get both positive and negitve response..which was the chance I was willing to take. I really dont know how some people turned my words around and make it all about them. I keep saying I dont want to force him...then someone says Im trying to change him, twist his arm...blah blah blah. I think I have had enough of the responses. As stated before it's ultimately my decision. 

Thanks to the ones who offer me positive information.


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

I found this article when seeking accurate divorce statistics..

The Myth of the High Rate of Divorce | Psych Central


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

committed4ever said:


> You really didn't do anything. The point I was trying to dispel was that marriage as an institution is NOT great.


Your words: 



committed4ever said:


> Marriage IS a good thing.


Nonetheless, the point is, not everyone wants to get married and there is nothing wrong with that. 

Lenzi, while I hear what you are trying to say, it's wrong to put everyone in the same category.

So people who say marriage IS good and people who say marriage IS bad... one size doesn't fit all.

It works for some, it doesn't for others. To each their own.


----------



## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

lenzi said:


> You are comparing marriage to parenting to make your point?
> 
> *yep!*
> 
> ...


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Ijustwanttoknow said:


> Im trying to figure out if his failed marriage means that he will hold on to this failure forever. However...once again...he hasn't totally written off marriage.


My advice to you is this: imagine the worst scenario. What IF he has totally written off marriage? What is your position on your relationship then? Can you stay in the relationship long-term without marriage? Or is it a dealbreaker for you?

That is what you need to know for yourself.


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Ijustwanttoknow said:


> I was hoping for positive information. not people telling me he doesn't love me enough...What? I know he loves me. I just want ways to show him that I support him.


I'm sure he loves you, and his reluctance to marry again has nothing at all to do with his feelings about you and I apologize for those who suggest otherwise. Remember, that's only their opinion, not yours, not mine, and not a fact. 

Don't let the naysayers get you down.


----------



## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> Your words:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I maintain it IS a good thing as an institution. To each his own as to whether you choose to get married or not. Neither choice is better than the other.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

committed4ever said:


> . To each his own as to whether you choose to get married or not. Neither choice is better than the other.


Well I agree with that part.


----------



## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

lenzi said:


> You didn't dispel any points, not by saying "some" people saying suck at marriage.
> 
> The divorce rate is well over 50% and climbing.
> 
> "Most" people suck at marriage, not "some". When "most" of something is not good or great, then it cannot be considered "good" or "great".


I don't really care about statistics. it doesn't change the institution of marriage and whether or not it's good.


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

committed4ever said:


> To each his own as to whether you choose to get married or not. Neither choice is better than the other.


I disagree. Lots of people get married and realize it was a bad decision. If you don't understand the relevance of the high divorce rate statistics, then why not go ahead and read a few dozen threads on this site about all these marriages that turn bad, and you'll see for yourself.

Those who stayed together but chose not to marry did not find themselves in that same dire situation, and it is much easier to get out because you don't need to deal with courts and attorneys and all of that.


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

lenzi said:


> I disagree. Lots of people get married and realize it was a bad decision. If you don't understand the high divorce rate statistics, then why not go ahead and read a few dozen threads on this site about all these marriages that turn bad, and you'll see for yourself.
> 
> Those who stayed together but chose not to marry did not find themselves in that same dire situation, and it is much easier to get out because you don't need to deal with courts and attorneys and all of that.


it seems you're very against marriage.Why are you here?I'm not trying to be an ass...I just really want to know.


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> it seems you're very against marriage.Why are you here?I'm not trying to be an ass...I just really want to know.


I've been through a bad divorce.

Being here is therapeutic for me.


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

lenzi said:


> I've been through a bad divorce.
> 
> Being here is therapeutic for me.


I see...thanks for answering  I appreciate that!


----------



## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

lenzi said:


> I disagree. Lots of people get married and realize it was a bad decision. If you don't understand the relevance of the high divorce rate statistics, then why not go ahead and read a few dozen threads on this site about all these marriages that turn bad, and you'll see for yourself.
> 
> Those who stayed together but chose not to marry did not find themselves in that same dire situation, and it is much easier to get out because you don't need to deal with courts and attorneys and all of that.


 You say you feel that way about marriage because of statistics. I don't let statistic guide my life my thinking nor my opinions.


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

committed4ever said:


> You say you feel that way about marriage because of statistics. I don't let statistic guide my life my thinking nor my opinions.


No, I didn't say I feel the way I do because of statistics however statistics can and do say a lot about a particular thing and I'm sure you do consider statistics in your daily life even if you don't consciously acknowledge it.

For example, would you throw a $100 bucks down on a horse race and bet the longshot for 1 to 1 odds?

I doubt it. 

If you answered yes then please accept my apology in advance.


----------



## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

lenzi said:


> No, I didn't say I feel the way I do because of statistics however statistics can and do say a lot about a particular thing and I'm sure you do consider statistics in your daily life even if you don't consciously acknowledge it.
> 
> For example, would you throw a $100 bucks down on a horse race and bet the longshot for 1 to 1 odds?
> 
> ...


It's hard for me to relate to that example. I don't gamble and don't even know gambling language. 

Normally I wouldn't even argue this long with anybody but I'm pregnant and feeling very b!tchy today. Probably because my husband is away and despite promising not to substitute texting for calling on this trip he hasn't kept that promise. You're right. Marriage SUCKS!


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Well this thread got hi-jacked.

OP, I hope you haven't left.


----------



## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

Viseral said:


> If we based all our financial decisions based on feelings we'd all be in a heck of a lot of trouble.


If you consider getting married a financial decision... you've never been in love...


----------



## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

lenzi said:


> It didn't work for you.
> 
> I took a look at all the threads you started since you got married 2 years ago. Nothing but problems.
> 
> ...


Well if we're getting technical it clearly DID work as we've been married over a year now!

Your selective quoting missed the more recent posts I have made where we are in a really good place. You omitted to quote those though - strange that don't you think?

If you had bothered to get to know my history, you would understand the reasons why hubz was stalling. He admits himself he didn't know why he didn't do it sooner and he loves being married to me.

An ultimatum to me was simply voicing out loud my internal deadline. I chose to do it to be upfront and clear so there was no "but you never told me about that" protesting on his part. I am still certain now that had I not done it, he would still be dithering over whether to or not.

Anyway sorry OP for going OT there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

committed4ever said:


> You're right. Marriage SUCKS!


Marriage doesn't always suck. Hang in there, he'll be home soon and you can get back into it. Sounds like you're one of the lucky ones, hubby's text messages vs phone calls not withstanding. It's sort of a guy thing we don't usually like to talk on the phone.



tobio said:


> Your selective quoting missed the more recent posts I have made where we are in a really good place. You omitted to quote those though - strange that don't you think?


Sorry I admit I only looked at your first posts and grabbed the ones that indicated things were going poorly from the start and I didn't read further, my bad. Glad things are working out for you.


----------



## whitecat (May 17, 2013)

Ijustwanttoknow said:


> You've missed the whole point. I DONT WANT TO CHANGE HIM. I said that when we FIRST started dating he KNEW what I wanted. He didn't show commitment issues in the begining I was lead to believe by HIM that he wanted our relationship to lead towards marriage too! AGAIN!! I am NOT Pressing the issue. WOW


I guess I'm confused. I thought the whole point of your thread was asking advice on how to make him see marriage in a more favorable light. I'm trying to be gentle here. Isn't that trying to change him? It seems I missed the part about him knowing from the beginning that you were marriage-minded. In my mind, that makes it even worse. So he knew from the beginning you wanted to get married and five years later he is still dragging his feet...


----------



## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

lenzi said:


> No, I didn't say I feel the way I do because of statistics however statistics can and do say a lot about a particular thing and I'm sure you do consider statistics in your daily life even if you don't consciously acknowledge it.
> 
> For example, would you throw a $100 bucks down on a horse race and bet the longshot for 1 to 1 odds?
> 
> ...


What that statistic tells me is that a lot of people are getting married for the wrong reason.

That is exactly why I advise people that aren't married in a few years to separate... and go find someone you truly love..

When comes down to... "Well... I've got 5 years invest in this relationship.... We've got to get married or breakup!"

The appropriate thing to do is not give the other person an ultimatum... break up... And if it's true love... you'll find out just how much you do love them and then you can get married.

I'm betting that 99.9% of those people will never get back together.


----------



## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

I was extremely reluctant to get married again. After choosing an addict and abuser and then several not-so-great boyfriends, I figured single life was a better option.

Hub was a friend turned boyfriend turned live in boyfriend. I was happy with things status quo. He really wanted the commitment and to get married. He was clear that he would not want to stay live-in without marriage forever.

I loved him and could not imagine life without him so we married. We've had our good times and bad times but I can honestly say I am so glad we did get married. We'll hit 12 years in February and I'm looking forward to 20 years, 25 years, 30 years, etc.


----------



## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

WorkingOnMe said:


> He's right. People change after marriage. Why ruin a good thing?


ruin?

People can change after not getting married too. Shrug.

--

I wasnt sure about marriage either. After living together for 5 years I could sense she was getting ready to fish or cut bait. She never said so at the time but confirmed it later that she was starting to wonder if I was a lost cause because she was not going to live together forever. It was going to come to a head. I can tell you I am glad she never issued an ultimatum because I instinctively dig my heels in - a character flaw I have I guess. When I started thinking about losing her - I started thinking more about wanting to marry her. Funny how the more I started thinking about it - the more quickly I started buying into the prospect and started losing my fear of marriage altogether. Once I made up my own mind I wondered what took me so long. 

Glad it didnt come to a head. 20 years later - guess I got lucky.

OP - you cant force him. I doubt he has talked about marriage 'just to keep you around'. I bet he is serious. I bet you will both feel better about it (if it happens) if there isnt any arm twisting. I have other friends who hit the relationship pivot point after about 5 years too - so your timing seems to me, not surprising.

Sounds like he is just scared.

I never bought into the 'marriage changes people' line. The only people that say that are the ones that got - or are headed for divorce. Some marriages just dont work and people change regardless. Go ask a happily married couple if marriage changed them and see wht they say.

I dont know how to make him realize hat you would actually bail on the relationship if marriage isnt in the picture. Are you? Guess you need to be honest with yourself and make some choices - once you make up your mind - I dont have much doubt it will begin to make itself evident in the relationship. Have you actualy said 'I wont stay unmarried', or 'I do want to get married'? Whats it worth to you?

I feel for both of you - its a tough situation since he has seen the dark side, and all you want is to be together. You both want to be together obviously - just see it differently.

I'm a pretty traditional guy though. Living together just wouldnt feel the same. I know some might get their dander up over that but thats the way I feel.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Some don't want marriage at all. Some marry and have a bad experience and never want it again. Some need time, often a very long time, to think about whether they want to take another chance on marriage.

Your boyfriend right now is kind of gun-shy about marriage. Understandably. He will eventually decide whether or not he wants to remarry. That's his choice. You will either wait for him to make that decision or you won't. That's your choice. 

There is nothing I can see that requires "support" from you to him regarding this -- unless it's not pushing him. It comes down to how much time are you willing to allow him to make his decision. You are the only one who knows the answer to that.


----------



## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

lenzi said:


> I've been through a bad divorce.
> 
> Being here is therapeutic for me.


I went through an absolutely horrible divorce... 

After that... I was in no mood to be married to anyone. 

I'd tell girls. "Look if you want to get married, you need to look some place else because I'm not interested in being married to anyone!"

If they were still clingy... and I felt like they wanted to date me exclusively. I'd simply quit dating them.

I was 30, people say I'm attractive. I'm 6'2", I have mesmerizing blue eyes, no kids, drink only socially, don't smoke, making good money as a pharmacists. There was absolutely no shortage of people who had friends that they wanted me to meet. 

I had absolutely no intention of every marrying again. 

I actually lived with a girl for 2 years... she was smart, good looking, making more money than I was, no kids, great personality... I kept thinking, "I can learn to love this girl". After 2 years. It just wasn't happening. I broke up with her.

Five weeks later... I started dating Ms. Wonderful... fell head over heels in love.. We're married and it has been absolute bliss.

Don't settle for cohabiting with someone. If you have no desire to marry your SO.. I don't think you're in love. Not the kind of love I experience with my wife. 

Get out there and find the guy or gal that absolutely knocks your socks off... 

Marriage is absolutely wonderful... when you're married to someone you truly love...


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

hambone said:


> If you have no desire to marry your SO.. I don't think you're in love.


Sigh.

Not everyone who is in love is married and not everyone who is married is in love.

If you are, then that's great. It's ideal. However, one size does not fit all.

I have an uncle who was married to his first and only wife for a handful of years. They split, he met someone else and they have been together now some 30 years. I call her my Aunt. They are not married. They are in love. They have children together, grandchildren, a family, a loving relationship. She is the only woman in my life I ever seen him with. I would hardly call it "cohabiting" together. Or "settling." 

Plenty of people have long lasting lovingly committed relationships who never marry. On the flip, plenty of people have long lasting lovingly committed marriages. 

Marriage does not make a person more in love than not. A piece of paper does not change what the heart feels. It does not make you love more. It comes from within.

But I digress. Openminded nailed it. Perfect response. It really is about what these two mutually desire. If that desire is not the same in the long run, then they have a fundamental difference.

From the OP's initial post, it sounds like she is trying to convince him to see her point of view, to make him see marriage is the best thing for them. And it simply doesn't work that way. He has to want it for his own. 

It just comes back to that old adage: You cannot make anyone do anything.

People are going to do whatever they want.


----------



## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> Sigh.
> 
> Not everyone who is in love is married and not everyone who is married is in love.
> 
> ...


SIGH...

There are exceptions to every rule. Let's not extrapolate the anomaly into being the normal. 

For example. There are people who never consummated their marriage and have had perfectly fulfilling marriages and they feel that engaging in sex with their spouses will add anything to their marriage! See, two can play that game. And add that up against people who have active sex lives and are happily married. 

I was as much against marriage as anyone on this forum.. after I went to a miserable divorce. I was going to cohabit the rest of my life. Then, I messed up. I met Ms. wonderful. I loved her so much that I forgot all about all those reasons that I would never marry again. I wanted her so bad.. I wanted all of her. The happiest day of my life was the day I married her. I wish everybody could experience the kind of love I have with my wife. 

I wouldn't settle for anything less than the total commitment that we have for each other.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

hambone said:


> I wouldn't settle for anything less than the total commitment that we have for each other.


Good for you. It doesn't change that fact that what works for your situation is what works for everyone else. 

Nor does it mean that everyone has to get married, should want to get married, or has more or less of a relationship because they are married or unmarried. 

To say people aren't (or an't be) in love because they aren't married is simply untrue. There are plenty of people who are in love and aren't married. All over the world. 

One size does not fit all.


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

hambone said:


> I went through an absolutely horrible divorce...
> 
> Five weeks later... I started dating Ms. Wonderful... fell head over heels in love.. We're married and it has been absolute bliss.
> 
> Don't settle for cohabiting with someone. If you have no desire to marry your SO.. I don't think you're in love. Not the kind of love I experience with my wife.


Right. And when you got married the first time, you thought you had the same amount of love and you made the "ultimate committment" because you wouldn't "settle for anything less".

Things went bad, you fell out of love, you broke your vows and your "ultimate commitment" went down the tubes and because you were married you had to face a bad divorce.

This time around you are "once again in love" and "in the deepest level of commitment". Until and unless you once again.. fall out of love and get divorced. 



hambone said:


> I wouldn't settle for anything less than the total commitment that we have for each other.


I'm one who learns from my mistakes. I call it 'wisdom', some call it 'settling for less'. I sleep well at night.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Ok, Lenzi, your post was unintentionally funny. It made me laugh. 

It reminds me of that saying "It's always different until it isn't."


----------

