# Help encouraging her to initiate non-verbally after being hurt by my insensitivity



## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

My wife of 16 years and I have had some very tough years that we have rebuilt from over the past 8 months. We are making remarkable progress rebuilding our love from neglect and lack of emotional connections but a few issues remain. 

One of the few remaining issues is she asks me very directly if I am interested in being intimate with her. 

I would prefer for her to seduce me non-verbally when she has desires. I have told her what I would like and she is making strides on that direction which has been very lovely for both of us but she mostly still uses this verbal inquiry method that I find very unsexy because it is was the only way for so long. 

I believe the only reason she has the habit of verbally asking about my interest/desire is to avoid the horrible feelings of rejection that I was obliviously insensitive about in the past. It is a mater of confidence in me that I will not hurt her feelings ever again which I am fully committed to never doing ever again. 

Am I being too impatient or is there something else I can do to encourage and reassure her that she is safe from being hurt if she engages in non-verbal seduction?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Thread,

That script might look like this. 

I want you to have fun with this initiation thing. The easiest way to do that is to remind yourself that I absolutely won't reject a direct initiation. 

So the worst case scenario is you give me a less obvious cue or two and I miss them. And then having faith that I honestly didn't pick up on it - which is possible - you just say: I want you

And as we practice I'll get better at picking up the cues. Eventually we might get to the point you can do it in front of other people, they won't have a clue but I'll get it right away. 




thread the needle said:


> My wife of 16 years and I have had some very tough years that we have rebuilt from over the past 8 months. We are making remarkable progress rebuilding our love from neglect and lack of emotional connections but a few issues remain.
> 
> One of the few remaining issues is she asks me very directly if I am interested in being intimate with her.
> 
> ...


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Yes, that does sound rather unsexy.

So when she asks in that clinical detached kind of way you respond by saying:

Yes! But first, I want you to slowly take off your clothes while I watch.

Or 

Yes! But first let's dance as we take off our clothes.

Or

Yes! Show me what you've got under that skirt.

Her initiation is simply expressing the idea of having sex. If you've been in the habit of turning her away, it will take a long time before she could seduce you out of the blue. By taking her clinical expression of the idea of sex and turning into a set of direct instructions, you are both encouraging her to request sex and teaching her how you want to be seduced.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

thread the needle said:


> One of the few remaining issues is she asks me very directly if I am interested in being intimate with her.
> 
> I would prefer for her to seduce me non-verbally when she has desires. I have told her what I would like and she is making strides on that direction which has been very lovely for both of us but she mostly still uses this verbal inquiry method that I find very unsexy because it is was the only way for so long.
> 
> ...


So why are you insensitively rejecting her, and then still doing so by telling her that she isn't initiating properly? Why aren't you initiating as well? If you are, then show her by example how you want it done (and tell her afterward that is what you did). And for goodness sake be kind about it.


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

I vote you need to be a bit more patient. The past is a powerful thing to overcome and it will take her quite a while to get used to the new you. You stated that she is slowly initiating non verbally. Make sure to compliment her when she does and try not to put her down for not doing it enough. 

Just remember that the marriage took a while to get broken and it will take a while for it to heal too. 

Re'
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

You could mix things up a bit and take sign language classes together and request that she use that to initiate. The hard part will be finding a bogus sign language class in which all the signs involves mostly groping one's erogenous areas and gyrating, that looks legit enough to fool your wife into thinking it is real.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

thread the needle said:


> My wife of 16 years and I have had some very tough years that we have rebuilt from over the past 8 months. We are making remarkable progress rebuilding our love from neglect and lack of emotional connections but a few issues remain.
> 
> One of the few remaining issues is she asks me very directly if I am interested in being intimate with her.
> 
> ...


Everybody else's replies here are excellent, provided you are correct in your assessment of the situation (bolded above).

My wife is also exactly like this, so I feel your frustration. One thing that never occurred to me is that perhaps my wife's motives for verbal initation are the same as yours - confidence. Personally, I highly doubt it in our case, but all the same, something for me to consider.

My advice, coming from a very similar situation, is that no, you're not being too impatient. I do like the suggestion of talking with her and asking her to only use a verbal cue if and when you've completely missed the non-verbal ones, rather than go directly to what she's doing now. However, it would be helpful that she quickly mention the non-verbal cues you missed while doing so.

That said, and I've told my wife this, non-verbal cues sometimes have to be very blunt and obvious. From my pov, I can't quite see how difficult it is for somebody to touch, rub, or take my penis out, if this is something that one is aiming for anyway. If I've missed the non-verbal cues such as touching my arm, a certain look, whatever, then maybe plan B should be a bit more obvious. 

*ETA - in my experience, women generally require specific things to get them in the mood, and they usually tell us at some point in the relationship. "I like it when you do this", etc. If we men don't do these things, married or not, it's probably not happening. I'm not sure why we men aren't allowed to do this. If I have a 99% success rate with my wife if I take the time to do a, b, or c (at her instruction), then why are my requests falling on deaf ears? For example, my wife works on her feet all day, and she also jogs and plays touch football. I happily will massage her without her asking me to. This almost always leads to sex. She's even specifically told me that this is one of the things that will get her in the mood. Conversely, I also like to be touched (duh) and I've told her that I would love for her to touch me (yes, there) and even take it out and play with it. That this would signal to me that she is in the mood, and we can take it upstairs, as they say. Has this ever happened? Nope. Yet I follow her instructions and requests to the best of my ability, as I know what can and usually will get her in the mood. What I find hilarious (and frustrating) is that I tell my wife I would love for her to occasionally touch me/take it out, just as she tells me what turns her on, or gets her in the mood. But in order for her to touch my penis, never mind take it out, we have to actually be in bed, just about to have sex. As in, the whole thing had to have been agreed upon before she can bring herself to do this. For me, this is a general turn off. Sex has to have been implied by me, and agreed upon, by her, before it happens. When it's the other way around, it has to be bluntly asked, by her.

So the huge negative to all of this is that, after 6 1/2 years with her, I simply do not find her sexy any more. I mean she's attractive to look at, she's sexy from a physical standpoint, but the mental part is not there for me. At all. I simply don't look at her in a sexual manner any more. It's at the point where I initiate sex because I want sex, not HER. I initiate sex because I want some intimacy, not HER. I used to want HER. The bottom line is that she no longer turns me on, outside of when we're actually having sex. And I don't like that feeling one bit. I used to look at her and desire her, want her, need her. It's not like that any more.

I don't know what your wife is like, OP, but over here, the irony is that my wife rarely responds to direct, verbal initiation on my part. She actually requires much the same style of initiation that I am asking of her... 

Now, for her part, she claims she is "not good" at this type of initiation and she feels awkward and that it's not "natural" for her. And she's also the personality type to not really try to change this. The few times she's made an attempt, it has come across as rather forced and overly thought-out and planned, as if she's forcing herself to do it.

Against the popular advice so far given here, I tend to be less responsive to the overt verbal "let's have sex" initiation. I know I shouldn't be like that (just shooting myself in the foot) but to be frank, it's actually a bit of a turn-OFF for me. So if I was in the mood even slightly and she pulls that line out, it actually ruins the mood for me. More often than not, I reply with "later", and then work on a bit of non-verbal initiation on my part (and also make sure to follow through. Unless she changes her mind over the next few hours... sigh). Generally speaking, this allows me to get in the mood while also (perhaps subconsciously) showing her that I really don't respond well to "let's have sex".

As a bit of an addendum/tangent, I suspect my wife is like this because she has a rather antiquated view of men's sexuality and has simply spent the bulk of her sexual life with this belief. The bulk of her sexual experience came during her mid-teens to her early-20's with probably 80% of it being casual (as opposed to relationships). In her experience, men don't say "no", and they've also been the initiators. It's easy to see why this understanding of male sexuality has escaped her. I am very likely the first man she's ever known to actually admit that we require much the same things that she does in regards to sex. That, in fact, we are not always "ready to go" at the drop of a hat.

I would venture a guess that she has also likely never been rejected before. Case in point, the first time I ever rejected her sexually a few years ago (legit reason, by the way), she was actually very upset and hurt. To the point that she told me she was hurt the next day. Believe me, my wife rarely talks about her feelings, so this was huge for her. So I found myself reassuring her that it had nothing to do with her. On the positive side of things, she now knew how I felt when I was rejected, and it sucks. Didn't stop her from rejecting me (sometimes in rather insensitive ways), but whatever.

But I find that some women just grow up thinking all men are the same. That we're horn-dogs who never say no and always have sex on the brain, and that when THEY'RE in the mood, they'll have a 100% success rate. But when we're in the mood and they're not, they'll reject without a second thought. The irony is that it's probably us males who make them believe this. 18 year old me would never had said no, because... sex! But the problem is that some women think we men are like this when we're 30, 40 and 50, too. Or more likely, that we're like this in long-term relationships or marriage.


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

My husband used to reject me a lot.

I got in the habit of not initiating, or being very cautious about it. If he started whining about it, I'd be ticked. It's his own fault. 

I think you need to be patient and kind about it. You might believe you are never going to reject her again, but it's going to take some time before she believes that. (I know I still don't trust my husband not to reject me)


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

Fitnessfan said:


> My husband also rejected me for a very long time. I am hesitant to approach him still even though things are a lot better because the outright rejection is still very raw and hurtful in my mind. I also prefer to verbally get an ok first because if he says no to my asking, it somehow seems to hurt less than if I move to touch him in some way and get rejected that way. WHen I move to touch him and am rebuked, that is intensely painful for me. I can't really explain why being verbally rejected hurts less than when I move to physically touch him, but it's the way it is for me. I think it could take a long time and much reassurance from you for her to feel okay doing this. Be patient, be kind, be loving and understanding.


:iagree:

Verbal rejection is better than getting naked and reaching out to him, only to have him push you away, ignore you, or tell you to stop. Ouch.


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