# Do you regret getting divorced from your amicable but passionless marriage?



## wilson

People get divorced for all kinds of reasons. I would like to limit this thread to just a small subset of divorces. I'm interested in the opinions of people who were in an marriage with little to no affection and that was pretty much the only problem. Basically, you would have been happy to be married if there was affection, but there wasn't, so you got divorced.

Do you regret getting divorced? Are you happier being on your own? 

I'm in an good but affectionless marriage. Of course, there are normal incompatibilities, but the effect is so magnified because of the resentment from no passion. I often think about getting divorced, but I wonder if I would regret the decision. I'm in a 20+ year marriage and this problem has been going on for a while. I realized it wasn't going to get any better about 10 years ago, but by then we had a child and I didn't want her to be raised in a split family. Now that she is almost ready to leave the house, I'm thinking about what the future holds. I would be mid-50s and divorced and the thought of starting up dating then doesn't really sound all that appealing either. 

I'm interested in hearing from people who were in a situation similar to mine and got divorced. What advice would you have given to the married version of you before you got divorced?


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## dumpedandhappy

I have no regrets that my wife ended our 19 year marriage because at the end of the day, she did me a favour. 

I have found a woman and have been in a solid and rewarding LTR with a person who loves me, is passionate and affectionate. IN fact, I am stunned by her need for intimacy with me. She rocks my world and we even agree: without the Passion, without Affection, there is no need for a relationship. 

Are you married to a "roomate"? 

If you are like me back in marriage, dreaming of a woman who would take the time to show affection towards me, make a point of walking across the room just to kiss me hard on the lips, who grabs my hand in the morning as I try to rise from the bed to hold me tightly and tell me of her love for me.....I have news for you - She is Out There. 

You will never find her if you don't try, if you don't look. 

I am sorry but it isn't "good-enough" to be Content in the Marriage...you must be Happy.


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## Holland

I have no regrets except that it was not what I wanted my kids to go through.
That being said the kids are doing really well and my oldest said that he can see his dad and I are both happier now. 

I got to the point where the resentment was really starting to build in me. I desperately wanted him to want me but the truth was that he just didn't. We were room mates and he was OK with that.

Almost 3 years down the track and I could not be happier. I am in a relationship that is full of passion, intimacy, affection and rocking sex. I now know what I want in a relationship and will not ever settle for less.

In our case all has turned out well, ex is happy and re partnered, I am happy and re partnered, ex and I co parent exceptionally well together and are friends. 

Don't worry about your age, that is no barrier to finding happiness.


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## Trickster

You're not alone Wilson...
I could have wrote your thread. For me, after 20 years together, We don't even say I Love You. I don't want to lose my best friend though, along with all the reasons you mentioned. I don't want a split family. I have ANOTHER ten years to go...by then, I'll be in my mid-fifties. 

Dating scares the heck out of me!

From what I have learned here on TAM, Most people would get divorced. Knowing that, It is still so hard to know for sure.

Welcome to the boards, you will learn a lot here.


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## Serenity_Prayer

I'm only separated, not divorced yet, but have lived the amicable but passionless marriage. Well, that's what I thought until I really thought about the marriage and realized it was worse, that I've been passionless/rejected/ignored so long I don't know what normal is, but am looking forward to finding out. Or living the rest of my life without a partner, which is better than feeling lonely when he's sitting on the other end of the couch. Alone, I can deal with, lonely, I cannot. I didn't want to split the family either but asked what am I teaching my children about love? I want them to grow up and expect more than a roommate who sometimes does his share and spends evenings on the computer or XBox.


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## EnjoliWoman

I do always advise unhappy female friends tho - work on it. Give it all you've got. At least you'll move on with no regrets. 

Marriage counseling, explaining how you need the intimacy to feel loved, reading books about it and/or reading aloud to partner from books if they won't read them. Having them go to the doctor to see if there are medical reasons - low testosterone, ED that has them worried they can't perform so they avoid it, etc.

You don't say what you've done to try to change the intimacy levels. I don't suggest a berating, yelling or shameful approach but bringing it up in a positive way. 

Don't stay unhappy - fix unhappy. And if you can't, you know you tried and everyone deserves happy.


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## COGypsy

Regret? Not for one single nanosecond. I actually can't believe how much time I wasted....


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## wilson

Thanks for all the replies. We have tried working on it. My wife has made good effort on talking to doctors, reading books, etc. Unfortunately, it never really seemed to make a difference. 

It's good to hear that people don't seem to regret getting divorced. I think I would be happier divorced, but I may not really know until that time comes.


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## Corpuswife

Wilson: You are right...you can read and talk but really action on both parts is the ONLY thing that works! 

I do regret my divorce, after 25 years of marriage. I tried to save the marriage but he was already out before he uttered his thoughts. I didn't have a chance.

I regret it as my kids albeit they are old suffered. My ex and I are still close. He regrets it as well (per recent phone call). My daughter at 16 years old fell apart. My ex and I never suspected that it would take a toll on my daughter as it did. 

I would, at the very least, waited until she was older to divorce.

I know it doesn't happen to all families and they transition fine. It didn't happen that way...even with counseling, understanding family, support, and parents that were consistent and loving....my kids suffered.


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## Martyn

I was in a marriage with no affection.

We went out for 4 years after the first 2 years I could tell that in the bedroom department there was no passion from my wife...ok talk and find out what the problem is, wife didn't want to talk about it..guess I should have done something then and there, but being a 'Mr nice guy' I let it lie, everything else was going well and we loved each other.(or so I thought)

We then got married a, and with this nagging at me I asked her if she still wanted to marry me and the answer was always yes..so we got married..with the pity sex always in the background, but she always made an effort to call me hither, tell me to come in in half an hour when she'd be ready reading her book!!!.....why did I put up with this........ untill this year when things went down hill and she started the mind and blame games for lots of little things and I was blind to see it.

The bomb was dropped 6 weeks ago today and in a lot of ways I still miss her but in my heart I knew it wasn't right...so i'm happy she left to find happiness and I can find mine.....just wish she'd been honest at the time, and unfortunately I didn't do subtle.

The folks on here have been a great help, and looking at the links/books/dvd's that have been mentioned on these threads have really helped...looking back she had been detaching for quite some time years in fact... so I needed some guiadance and inspiration here...keep up the good work guys

sorry i'm not sure what to say about your situation..just be honest with yourself and them.

'sometimes the right path is not the easiest path'


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## yogapants

I'm torn with your same feelings - if feels so good to know there are others. In my case, with me telling my H that I wanted to separate - He says he is going to fight to help me see that we could still love each other (he has made some huge mistakes). My feelings are gone. I have three kids, two young enough that I'm considering holding off.


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## Houstondad

Regret? Why did you get married in the first place? Why do you not have the same/similar feelings now like you did when you first met and eventually married? You and your spouse BOTH need to look deep down yourselves to find what you have lost and rediscover what you both need.
I would venture to say 100% of ALL marriages encounter their road bumps. Just like you. And it's more common to see things become passionless. But this is where you and your spouse need to put forth effort. Communicate what is missing and what you need. Don't jump ship so damn soon. Bottom line is that it takes REAL WORK!!!
If a spouse decides to not work/put forth effort on the marriage, and they bail on their partner, they will never learn and they will more than likely REGRET it.
Don't sit on your hands like many of us have and not do anything about it. Resentment, anger, etc. sets in after time. Then it's much harder to do something about it. And if you don't give it your best shot? That's your own damn fault and will likely regret not trying.
Those of us who don't regret it came from either an emotionally/physically abusive spouse or infidelity. 
And if it's Irreconcilable differences? IMHO that's just a sellout. Sorry for being so harsh. It just hits a nerve for me. When things got bad, I wouldn't throw in the towel even though I was tempted because it would have been EASY. I didn't want any regrets looking back and because I gave it my all till the end, I don't have any.


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## brokenbythis

Holland said:


> I have no regrets except that it was not what I wanted my kids to go through.
> That being said the kids are doing really well and my oldest said that he can see his dad and I are both happier now.
> 
> I got to the point where the resentment was really starting to build in me. I desperately wanted him to want me but the truth was that he just didn't. We were room mates and he was OK with that.
> 
> Almost 3 years down the track and I could not be happier.* I am in a relationship that is full of passion, intimacy, affection and rocking sex. I now know what I want in a relationship and will not ever settle for less.*
> In our case all has turned out well, ex is happy and re partnered, I am happy and re partnered, ex and I co parent exceptionally well together and are friends.
> 
> Don't worry about your age, that is no barrier to finding happiness.


Yes I had a relationship like this with my ex-husband - until it all went downhill and his mental illness kicked into high gear.

This is the sort of thing I would write to my friends describing my relationship with my boyfriend/fiance/husband all the way through until about 6 years ago.

We all have such short memories. Lately I've been reading people's glowing accounts of their new/post divorce relationships and it occured to me I was reading an account of MY MARRIAGE in the first few years.

Don't write off the old relationship so harshly because I'm betting for the majority of people, it was all good at first


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## Freak On a Leash

wilson said:


> People get divorced for all kinds of reasons. I would like to limit this thread to just a small subset of divorces. I'm interested in the opinions of people who were in an marriage with little to no affection and that was pretty much the only problem. Basically, you would have been happy to be married if there was affection, but there wasn't, so you got divorced.
> 
> Do you regret getting divorced? Are you happier being on your own?


My advice to you Wilson is to get divorced if you aren't happy because it's never going to get better and you are still at an age where you can get out, have fun and perhaps meet someone who is more compatible. I know how easy it is to get settled in with one person but it can be so demoralizing, humiliating even. 

For a long time that was my marriage. We pretty much lived like we were divorced under the same roof. He did his thing and I did mine and we got along well enough.We would talk and do stuff as friends and with our kids. I'd climb into bed and there he would be fully clothed, his back towards me and not even give me a kiss goodnight. I dealt with it at first because he gave me a lot of freedom to go out and do what I wanted and believe it or not, we were still

friends and had good times with each other but if I wanted affection or sex I had to be the one to initiate it. I always wanted my husband to "want" me to grab me and lust after me and be totally into a physical side of our relationship. For ONE year out of 23 I had that. Was it worth it? I don't think so. At least I got 2 wonderful kids out of it but if I had to do it again..I wouldn't. 

I was MUCH lonelier living with someone who basically deprived me of affection and sex then I am living alone. Sounds weird but I grew to become angry and resentful about it. I started to wonder what was wrong with ME. I felt like I was being rejected. I never cheated on him but there was a part of me that knew that if someone else DID come along who gave me the attention and affection I craved I might very well do so. 

Eventually that anger and resentment surfaced and I started fighting with him a lot. We had a long talk one Christmas Eve in 2008 and made a lot of real changes in our marriage. For about a year and a half I had the husband I always wanted. We had a great time together AND we had great sex, were affectionate and totally into each other. 

But that didn't last long. By the spring of 2010 he was having issues, depression, anxiety, even a strange sort of paranoia about my prior relationships BEFORE we were married. It was bizarre and I still can't figure out what happened..only that he changed and then did our relationship. And then came the alcoholism. Our marriage became much worse then it ever was before and finally it imploded in December, 2010..2 years after our "reconciliation talk" and 23 years after he proposed marriage to me on Christmas Eve 1987. 

We are getting divorced 2 weeks from now and I'm glad. At last the long nightmare is over. I'm free of him emotionally and I will NEVER be in a relationship where someone isn't totally and completely into me and our relationship and withholds affection and sex. Those HAVE to be part of the package. If not, I'd much rather be by myself.

I don't mind being by myself. I'd rather be alone by myself then lonely in a relationship.


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## COguy

I agree with EW. You really need to earn your way out of a marriage, barring infidelity/abuse. Everyone that you spend 5,10,15,20 years with is going to get "boring" after a while. Don't expect that to change with anyone that you marry. That is the hard part about marriage, MAKING it work.

It takes a lot of effort, from both parties. If you really put in the effort, then you can walk away with less regrets (notice I didn't say no regrets).


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## austindad

Houstondad hits it home. IMO one of the reasons the divorce rate is so high is that our society feels "entitled" to be happy. Marriage is work. Raising children is work. Being a loving father/husband/wife/mother is work. If you are struggling with emotions towards your spouse, then tell him/her and work on a solution. Bailing is not the answer, and it never will be the answer.

You simply cannot control the other person. If they commit adultery, then I absolutely agree that is grounds for a divorce. However, if the other person simply isn't making you happy, then that is not a good reason for divorce. No one is entitled to happiness... it is something you choose to pursue. You made a commitment to your spouse, and IMO you should honor that commitment.

In the end, if it saves your marriage, you will be that much stronger. Perhaps your passion will be rekindled.


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## geek down

dumpedandhappy said:


> I have no regrets that my wife ended our 19 year marriage because at the end of the day, she did me a favour.
> 
> I have found a woman and have been in a solid and rewarding LTR with a person who loves me, is passionate and affectionate. IN fact, I am stunned by her need for intimacy with me. She rocks my world and we even agree: without the Passion, without Affection, there is no need for a relationship.
> 
> Are you married to a "roomate"?
> 
> If you are like me back in marriage, dreaming of a woman who would take the time to show affection towards me, make a point of walking across the room just to kiss me hard on the lips, who grabs my hand in the morning as I try to rise from the bed to hold me tightly and tell me of her love for me.....I have news for you - She is Out There.
> 
> You will never find her if you don't try, if you don't look.
> 
> I am sorry but it isn't "good-enough" to be Content in the Marriage...you must be Happy.


THIS....gives me hope...

Congrats man...keep her close..never let her go..


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## Waking up to life

austindad said:


> Marriage is work. Raising children is work. Being a loving father/husband/wife/mother is work. If you are struggling with emotions towards your spouse, then tell him/her and work on a solution. Bailing is not the answer, and it never will be the answer....if the other person simply isn't making you happy, then that is not a good reason for divorce. No one is entitled to happiness... it is something you choose to pursue. You made a commitment to your spouse, and IMO you should honor that commitment.


You make the assumption that choosing divorce means taking the easy way out. You also make the assumption that if you tell your spouse you are struggling with happiness in your marriage, they will jump all over the problem and work overtime with you to try to fix it. This is not always the case.

"No one is entitled to happiness... it is something you choose to pursue." This is the same rhetoric that my H subscribes to...because I am not happy in our marriage but he's fine with it. What he's really saying is, 'I'm happy with this marriage, so if you're not, then you are simply not choosing to be happy, because my definition of a happy marriage is the correct one and yours is obviously flawed.' Having been married 19 years to a man whom our marriage has revolved around, being told "marriage is hard work" is the biggest understatement of the year. Choosing to pursue happiness does, in fact, sometimes necessitate leaving a person who hinders you from pursuing it.


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## whitehawk

wilson said:


> People get divorced for all kinds of reasons. I would like to limit this thread to just a small subset of divorces. I'm interested in the opinions of people who were in an marriage with little to no affection and that was pretty much the only problem. Basically, you would have been happy to be married if there was affection, but there wasn't, so you got divorced.
> 
> Do you regret getting divorced? Are you happier being on your own?
> 
> I'm in an good but affectionless marriage. Of course, there are normal incompatibilities, but the effect is so magnified because of the resentment from no passion. I often think about getting divorced, but I wonder if I would regret the decision. I'm in a 20+ year marriage and this problem has been going on for a while. I realized it wasn't going to get any better about 10 years ago, but by then we had a child and I didn't want her to be raised in a split family. Now that she is almost ready to leave the house, I'm thinking about what the future holds. I would be mid-50s and divorced and the thought of starting up dating then doesn't really sound all that appealing either.
> 
> I'm interested in hearing from people who were in a situation similar to mine and got divorced. What advice would you have given to the married version of you before you got divorced?



My biggest lesson , you have to be really careful with loss of affection.
First thing is why ?

See with my ex , I didn't lose affection because I didn't love her anymore, I still oved her as much as I always did.
But she was just developing ways and habits that drove me nuts. None of them were what she'd aIways been like before that.
She was getting really loud , she was never loud in this way , really bossy , she knows no one bosses me around and so for her there are ways but not like that.
She wasn't looking after herself anymore , she always use to.
She was becoming more and more insensitive too , which sensitivity was always one of the special things I'd always loved about her.
I'd say things , I had to no choice because I knew how they were effecting me and in the end would make me cold.

Things like this were never her yet she just refused to take any notice of it so things got worse and worse. 

If you still love each other you have to listen to each other , even take some time away alone to think , realize.
I found most of our things were things she'd known I'd hated for years yet she actually increased them.

Stuff can kill affection and so passion. So if we can admit to it or find that stuff , start taking notice of it , well it would have saved mine I know that much.


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## austindad

Waking up to life said:


> You make the assumption that choosing divorce means taking the easy way out. You also make the assumption that if you tell your spouse you are struggling with happiness in your marriage, they will jump all over the problem and work overtime with you to try to fix it. This is not always the case.
> 
> "No one is entitled to happiness... it is something you choose to pursue." This is the same rhetoric that my H subscribes to...because I am not happy in our marriage but he's fine with it. What he's really saying is, 'I'm happy with this marriage, so if you're not, then you are simply not choosing to be happy, because my definition of a happy marriage is the correct one and yours is obviously flawed.' Having been married 19 years to a man whom our marriage has revolved around, being told "marriage is hard work" is the biggest understatement of the year. Choosing to pursue happiness does, in fact, sometimes necessitate leaving a person who hinders you from pursuing it.


I was not trying to say that divorce is an easy route. I understand every situation is different; however, you married someone for a reason. If you find out later on in the marriage that the other person is not making YOU happy, then simply walking away is IMO selfish regardless of how your significant other views it.

I'm not going to discuss my experiences nor talk about your own, but telling others it's OK to walk away from such a thing is never sound advice. If you are not happy with your marriage, then "man" up and do something about it, but always make sure your plan is to save the marriage. Even if that means leaving for a little while, maintain a solid relationship with your husband/wife (talk every day, see each other, etc.). You made a commitment. You gave your word. You swore before God. We're all adults here... you reap what you sow. 

Having said that, you cannot control the other person. If the other person walks, then there may come a point that you need to let go; however, if you're both committed to each other, then hopefully you never have to make that decision.


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## whitehawk

austindad said:


> I was not trying to say that divorce is an easy route. I understand every situation is different; however, you married someone for a reason. If you find out later on in the marriage that the other person is not making YOU happy, then simply walking away is IMO selfish regardless of how your significant other views it.
> 
> I'm not going to discuss my experiences nor talk about your own, but telling others it's OK to walk away from such a thing is never sound advice. If you are not happy with your marriage, then "man" up and do something about it, but always make sure your plan is to save the marriage. Even if that means leaving for a little while, maintain a solid relationship with your husband/wife (talk every day, see each other, etc.). You made a commitment. You gave your word. You swore before God. We're all adults here... you reap what you sow.
> 
> Having said that, you cannot control the other person. If the other person walks, then there may come a point that you need to let go; however, if you're both committed to each other, then hopefully you never have to make that decision.




Exactly . It still breaks my heart that we didn't have to go this way and much of our stuff was about me too not only her. I don't for a second pretend I wasn't a huge part in things. Even just more time would've done so much , there were so many things we "both" just needed a fresh look at , to persist with. 
You see so many others even through TAM that just shouldn't even be here. Life just gets hard sometimes, or taken for granted , or cluster fk'd , we get confused , we need to step back.

Sometimes I think the only difference between marriages that work and those that don't are the people involved and their attitudes .
Most 50 or 60 yr marriages have been to hell and back in life at least once or twice , often much more but they just don't quit , they don't believe in it.. I even saw it with my own parents.


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## stillhoping

This thread is really what I think about my 27 year long marriage. Ar both took it and each other for granted, had 3 horrible years where my dad had Alzheimer's., his younger brother died unexpectedly, I started a new job, he hated his, both Kidd left for college. I thought we were just coming through that, looking forward yo reconnecting snx boom, he wants a divorce. No counseling, no separation., just done. I sm completely heartbroken that he wouldn't at least try.


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## Feynman

I do regret that my roommate-like, passionless, stable marriage ended with no effort on her part. I completely get that the passion is needed, but for 5 years neither of us tried. The difference is that she is the one who unilaterally decided our marriage was dead, had the exit affair, and demanded the quickie divorce.

It seems to me that in the absence of adultery, abuse, abandonment, and addiction, you owe it to your children to at least put your hand up and say "hey, if something doesn't change I'm out of here." Perhaps it will do no good, but at least you will be able to look your 5-year-old in the face and tell him you did everything you could to keep his parents together before you left his father for the neighbor.

But some people have higher priorities in life, I guess. Some people will do what they want, and to hell with how it affects even their small children.


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## ku1980rose

wilson said:


> People get divorced for all kinds of reasons. I would like to limit this thread to just a small subset of divorces. I'm interested in the opinions of people who were in an marriage with little to no affection and that was pretty much the only problem. Basically, you would have been happy to be married if there was affection, but there wasn't, so you got divorced.
> 
> Do you regret getting divorced? Are you happier being on your own?
> 
> I'm in an good but affectionless marriage. Of course, there are normal incompatibilities, but the effect is so magnified because of the resentment from no passion. I often think about getting divorced, but I wonder if I would regret the decision. I'm in a 20+ year marriage and this problem has been going on for a while. I realized it wasn't going to get any better about 10 years ago, but by then we had a child and I didn't want her to be raised in a split family. Now that she is almost ready to leave the house, I'm thinking about what the future holds. I would be mid-50s and divorced and the thought of starting up dating then doesn't really sound all that appealing either.
> 
> I'm interested in hearing from people who were in a situation similar to mine and got divorced. What advice would you have given to the married version of you before you got divorced?


I have absolutely no regrets. There was no passion, no sex, no intimacy in my marriage. We only had sex like 3 times after marriage. Yuck.

The lack of passion caused a lot of resentment and then a lot of anger. 

I'm much happier to be moving on.

HOWEVER....I was only married 2 1/2 years before leaving. And we don't have any kids.

If I had kids with him, I might have stayed. Who knows. (Although you can't have kids if you never have sex.)

And I do agree with another reply that said they regret that it ended without any effort from their ex. I wish my ex would've put in some effort. Then maybe we could've made it work.

But, I don't miss him. I don't miss the husband he could have been because he never was.


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## 3Xnocharm

austindad said:


> I was not trying to say that divorce is an easy route. I understand every situation is different; however, you married someone for a reason. If you find out later on in the marriage that the other person is not making YOU happy, then simply walking away is IMO selfish regardless of how your significant other views it.
> 
> I'm not going to discuss my experiences nor talk about your own, but telling others it's OK to walk away from such a thing is never sound advice. If you are not happy with your marriage, then "man" up and do something about it, but always make sure your plan is to save the marriage. Even if that means leaving for a little while, maintain a solid relationship with your husband/wife (talk every day, see each other, etc.). You made a commitment. You gave your word. You swore before God. We're all adults here... you reap what you sow
> Having said that, you cannot control the other person. If the other person walks, then there may come a point that you need to let go; however, if you're both committed to each other, then hopefully you never have to make that decision.


"We're all adults here... you reap what you sow"....I SO wish this were true! There are many of us out here that sow and sow and sow, and never have anything to reap! 

As for the rest of your post, ONE PERSON cannot make a marriage work. There has to be effort from BOTH husband and wife, and if one person has decided that things are "good enough" and that the other has to "suck it up", you cannot have a successful relationship, no matter how much you want it to work. Staying in such a situation just because you made that commitment is only giving the other person permission to continue make you miserable.


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## Holland

austindad said:


> Houstondad hits it home. IMO one of the reasons the divorce rate is so high is that our society feels "entitled" to be happy. Marriage is work. Raising children is work. Being a loving father/husband/wife/mother is work. If you are struggling with emotions towards your spouse, then tell him/her and work on a solution. Bailing is not the answer, and it never will be the answer.
> 
> You simply cannot control the other person. If they commit adultery, then I absolutely agree that is grounds for a divorce. However, if the other person simply isn't making you happy, then that is not a good reason for divorce. No one is entitled to happiness... it is something you choose to pursue. You made a commitment to your spouse, and IMO you should honor that commitment.
> 
> In the end, if it saves your marriage, you will be that much stronger. Perhaps your passion will be rekindled.


Totally disagree, everyone has the right to be happy. Why be on this earth and forgo living a happy existence? I have money, health, intelligence and you know the thing that I treasure most is my happiness.

austindad have you ever been in a LTR that has become sexless? Have you ever lived with a partner that says they love you but then cares so little about your needs that they refuse to talk or be proactive about you and your marriage?

This thread is about those that divorced from amicable marriages. Many people live or exist in these sort of lifeless marriages that suck the life out of them and make them miserable. To live with someone that by their lack of connection or action towards you is really showing you great contempt is soul destroying.

Honestly I think unless you have walked a mile in my shoes you have no business getting on your soapbox about this issue.

DO you really think people enter into divorce lightly? No most of us have tried and tried for years to resolve the problems however we cannot force another person to do the same. Are you suggesting people stay and martyr themselves till death just so we don't have such high divorce rates?

FWIW I actually am not anti divorce given the right circumstances, people can get to the stage and have grow out of a marriage and it is far better to divorce than sacrifice your happiness till death.
The divorce rate is what it is, I really don't see what the problem is. People have the right to live their lives how they see fit and if divorce is part of their journey then so be it. Divorce has actually enhanced my life in many ways.


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## Feynman

Holland, it's enhanced my life too, but has irreparably harmed my young son's life. Just because divorce is the right answer for the adults doesn't mean it's the right answer. There's more important things in life than my happiness.

I don't think any one is saying one should stay in an amicable, passionless marriage if you just can't deal with it. What people say is that you should raise your hand and express your unhappiness. 

It sounds like you did all you could, but there are many others, including me, whose spouse did and said nothing, right up to the moment they walked away. And we think that's wrong.


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## Dedicated2Her

Here's what I will say. I did not ask for this. In fact, when things were brought to light, I went into overdrive trying to fix it. I heard it all, "I just felt like you didn't want me." "Something inside of me died because you weren't there for me." "I felt abandoned." 

Yeah, we had our issues. It took a swift kick in the pants to get me to see them. However, once they came to light, it became evident over time who was willing to do the work to bring passion/love/commitment/intimacy back into our relationship and who was not. Facing your baggage is a very scary thing. It hurts and it also takes all those inner wounds and brings them to the forefront. I chose to face mine. She chose to avoid. End result is an unbalanced situation. One person is happy/whole and the other is still the same broken person they were. That is not functional. Do I regret my divorce???? Absolutely not. Even though I did not want it, I thank my ex for the opportunity to become the man that always existed inside of me. 

People who talk about the kids miss one important aspect to things: My kids now have the opportunity to see how a fully functional, happy, content, adult lives their life. Their mom just isn't a happy person. They see that. They also will have the opportunity to see a complete relationship modeled for them. My ex, unfortunately, chose not to help herself which in turn didn't help us. 

So, I think it is a matter of perception. 2 people, if both committed, can create passion/love/devotion between the two of them through their actions. Emotion is always 10 steps behind the action. You can't make someone who is not whole do the actions. So, no, I don't regret my divorce. I still love my ex and always will, but she will not be allowed to be a part of my life outside of kids. The process has created a healthy, happy, and passionate me. Who would regret that?

And in regards to Holland's words: I think in reading her dialogue, one could make the determination that she would have been agreeable to staying in her marriage if her husband was willing to do what he vowed to do-----love her. Much of women's affection comes directly from a man's passion towards them. If a man is unwilling or unable to show that love/passion, they feel suffocated. This stuff really isn't that hard.


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## Holland

Dedicated2Her said:


> Here's what I will say. I did not ask for this. In fact, when things were brought to light, I went into overdrive trying to fix it. I heard it all, "I just felt like you didn't want me." "Something inside of me died because you weren't there for me." "I felt abandoned."
> 
> Yeah, we had our issues. It took a swift kick in the pants to get me to see them. However, once they came to light, it became evident over time who was willing to do the work to bring passion/love/commitment/intimacy back into our relationship and who was not. Facing your baggage is a very scary thing. It hurts and it also takes all those inner wounds and brings them to the forefront. I chose to face mine. She chose to avoid. End result is an unbalanced situation. One person is happy/whole and the other is still the same broken person they were. That is not functional. Do I regret my divorce???? Absolutely not. Even though I did not want it, I thank my ex for the opportunity to become the man that always existed inside of me.
> 
> People who talk about the kids miss one important aspect to things: My kids now have the opportunity to see how a fully functional, happy, content, adult lives their life. Their mom just isn't a happy person. They see that. They also will have the opportunity to see a complete relationship modeled for them. My ex, unfortunately, chose not to help herself which in turn didn't help us.
> 
> So, I think it is a matter of perception. 2 people, if both committed, can create passion/love/devotion between the two of them through their actions. Emotion is always 10 steps behind the action. You can't make someone who is not whole do the actions. So, no, I don't regret my divorce. I still love my ex and always will, but she will not be allowed to be a part of my life outside of kids. The process has created a healthy, happy, and passionate me. Who would regret that?
> 
> *And in regards to Holland's words: I think in reading her dialogue, one could make the determination that she would have been agreeable to staying in her marriage if her husband was willing to do what he vowed to do-----love her. Much of women's affection comes directly from a man's passion towards them. If a man is unwilling or unable to show that love/passion, they feel suffocated. This stuff really isn't that hard.*


Yes exactly, thank you for writing that, I needed to hear it. Yes I would have stayed in the marriage for life if he had of loved me but the reality was that I was being silently, emotionally abused through having that love taken away. 

It is hard because I put in a massive effort to keep the marriage going and people just assume that because it was an amicable marriage that I took the easy or selfish way out.
I tried for years, I sacrificed myself for years, I was on the verge of becoming so ill that I would have been no good to anyone let alone my kids.
I was told I was loved yet I wasn't listened to and my needs were irrelevant.
We were together for almost 20 years, I didn't run off at the first sign of trouble.
He tricked me, I was the victim of a bait and switch and had I been a man then people would have been more supportive.

So I ended it because the marriage was literally killing me but I then made a massive effort to do it in such a way that the impact on the kids was as minimal as possible.

Fast forward to today (3 years later) and my kids are still excelling at school, they are actually happier in some ways, they have fantastic social lives, play sport, are respectful good humans. 
It was hard on them but they knew their parents were unhappy, we still have the odd tear but it always brings up the opportunity to connect and talk about where our lives are at.

Ex and I are friends, we co parent and do 50/50 shared care. We did not go through lawyers as we sorted everything out ourselves.
We support each other and back each other up in parenting and life. We swap days with the kids to suit whatever is happening in life with no arguing.
We are still in contact with each others families and have kept our mutual friends.

Our post divorce life has been hard but is also rewarding, the kids see that as parents we can work together, we are a united front and we maintain "rules" across both houses.
Our kids are just as happy if not happier than many children from intact households.

Ex and I have both repartnered. I am deeply in love with my partner and he is by far a better match for me. My kids like him and get along with him and his children.

Ex and my partner have met and seem to get along well.

No one can tell me that staying in a marriage that was passionless and is causing serious health issues would have been the right thing to do.


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## Dedicated2Her

> Yes exactly, thank you for writing that, I needed to hear it. Yes I would have stayed in the marriage for life if he had of loved me but the reality was that I was being silently, emotionally abused through having that love taken away.
> 
> It is hard because I put in a massive effort to keep the marriage going and people just assume that because it was an amicable marriage that I took the easy or selfish way out.
> I tried for years, I sacrificed myself for years, I was on the verge of becoming so ill that I would have been no good to anyone let alone my kids.
> I was told I was loved yet I wasn't listened to and my needs were irrelevant.
> We were together for almost 20 years, I didn't run off at the first sign of trouble.
> He tricked me, I was the victim of a bait and switch and had I been a man then people would have been more supportive.
> 
> So I ended it because the marriage was literally killing me but I then made a massive effort to do it in such a way that the impact on the kids was as minimal as possible.
> 
> Fast forward to today (3 years later) and my kids are still excelling at school, they are actually happier in some ways, they have fantastic social lives, play sport, are respectful good humans.
> It was hard on them but they knew their parents were unhappy, we still have the odd tear but it always brings up the opportunity to connect and talk about where our lives are at.
> 
> Ex and I are friends, we co parent and do 50/50 shared care. We did not go through lawyers as we sorted everything out ourselves.
> We support each other and back each other up in parenting and life. We swap days with the kids to suit whatever is happening in life with no arguing.
> We are still in contact with each others families and have kept our mutual friends.
> 
> Our post divorce life has been hard but is also rewarding, the kids see that as parents we can work together, we are a united front and we maintain "rules" across both houses.
> Our kids are just as happy if not happier than many children from intact households.
> 
> Ex and I have both repartnered. I am deeply in love with my partner and he is by far a better match for me. My kids like him and get along with him and his children.
> 
> Ex and my partner have met and seem to get along well.
> 
> No one can tell me that staying in a marriage that was passionless and is causing serious health issues would have been the right thing to do.


The real sad part of your story, Holland, is your ex is likely to repeat the same thing over again. It isn't your problem directly, but it will affect the children and their view of relationships. I purposely push myself everyday so my children will be able to see a rewarding adult relationship 1) be passionate 2)see that passion grow because of the outward actions of both partners and 3) see it unwavering because of mutual respect and admiration that is built over time.

Everyone's story is a little different. Regardless, man or woman. If you, as a person, are unwilling to communicate, show loving actions, and be passionate in your pursuit to build your love to your mate while your mate is willing to do those things. THAT is abhorrent and disgusting. Of course, maybe that is just my own wounds talking.


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## Holland

Dedicated2Her said:


> T*he real sad part of your story, Holland, is your ex is likely to repeat the same thing over again. It isn't your problem directly, but it will affect the children and their view of relationships.* I purposely push myself everyday so my children will be able to see a rewarding adult relationship 1) be passionate 2)see that passion grow because of the outward actions of both partners and 3) see it unwavering because of mutual respect and admiration that is built over time.
> 
> Everyone's story is a little different. Regardless, man or woman. If you, as a person, are unwilling to communicate, show loving actions, and be passionate in your pursuit to build your love to your mate while your mate is willing to do those things. THAT is abhorrent and disgusting. Of course, maybe that is just my own wounds talking.


Yes this is so true and I suspect it may already be happening in his relationship.

My ex had a terrible example of marriage in his parents. They had a passionless marriage till death. He is not the bad man he must come across as in my posts and I feel very sorry for him. He wants to be different but just isn't able to be.

This is why my kids will ultimately be better off, I don't want them to think that a passionless marriage is acceptable, I want them to know they deserve and have the right to be happy, loved and content within their relationships.


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## Waking up to life

Holland your former marriage sounds SO much like my marriage is now. There is no passion, there is very little laughter and spontaneity, there is superficial amicable talk about how our day was, plans for the upcoming days, etc. My H's parents were married for 54 years until his dad died. His mom lived out her days resentful that she gave up so many of her dreams to support her H, who never seemed to appreciate it more than to say she was a "good wife". 

My H no doubt has never pondered whether his view of marriage is truly his own, or is it just what he knows from his parents. He told me recently all he ever wanted was to get married, have a couple kids (ha! Had we not gotten pregnant unexpectedly, we would've never had the one son I have...I begged for a second child, he refused), and grow old together in peace. That's it. So now that he's gotten married and has a child, there's nothing left to do except live out the rest of our days on autopilot until we die. I want more than that. I'm not ready to be "old" as he says he feels (he's 42, I'm 38). I just can't see myself remaining stagnant in a sexually unfulfilling business-like relationship of a marriage like this for much longer. I've tried to talk to him about this...he shuts me down and turns things back on me that I'm wrong for not being happy with his status quo.


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## Dedicated2Her

> Yes this is so true and I suspect it may already be happening in his relationship.
> 
> My ex had a terrible example of marriage in his parents. They had a passionless marriage till death. He is not the bad man he must come across as in my posts and I feel very sorry for him. *He wants to be different but just isn't able to be.*This is why my kids will ultimately be better off, I don't want them to think that a passionless marriage is acceptable, I want them to know they deserve and have the right to be happy, loved and content within their relationships.


Actually, he can. The key to a man becoming passionate about life/love and happiness is healing the parts of his life that stripped him of his masculinity. As passionless as his parent's marriage was, his father was probably passionless about a lot of things. That leads to wounds inside a boy into manhood. I spent 4 sessions in IC working on that. Forgiveness of my father and rediscovering my masculinity instilled a love and passion for life that I had been missing for so long.

Issue is, so many men are not teachable. I mean, like 80 pct. So, typically, you get what you get. That is why I am still shocked my ex walked away. It's just weird. But, hey, women can be unteachable too, so......

Humbleness and the ability to put your relationship above your ego are priceless in life. Unfortunately, people who can't do that can really take advantage of the one's who can.

Heck, I'm 34 and having to date a 42 year old woman to find someone that has the maturity and ability to bring a balanced relationship. Life is crazy.


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## Holland

I feel blessed to have found this forum, have said it before and saying it again.
I have so many great friends and family but there is something special about talking to people that actually understand. But I am sorry that others are suffering.

*WUTL *my MIL eventually died from Alzheimers and the really scary thing is that towards the end of my marriage I had become completely unable to make a clear decision, I was so unsure of my own abilities, I could not think straight. Not saying her passionless marriage caused her illness but it did cause her ill health and that is where I was headed.

We lived in a different country to them for the first half of our marriage but when we moved to their country and spent a lot of time with the IL's it struck me like lightning that we were living the same life as them. I did not want to end up living this way for ever.

*Dedicated*, your words are very wise.


> Humbleness and the ability to put your relationship above your ego are priceless in life. Unfortunately, people who can't do that can really take advantage of the one's who can.


 This rings so true to me. Now I look at my current relationship and the difference is astounding, SO has a very high level of EQ (as well as IQ) he puts *us *above either individual and it just works so well. He challenges me at every turn and he also learnes from me, and visa versa. We both have a natural ability to teach and learn within our relationship, this is a world away from where my marriage was.
Not saying ex was 100% to blame, we were both to blame. Mostly we were to blame for not understanding more about relationships and settling into a LTR that in hindsight was doomed from the beginning.


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## FlaGirl

I am contemplating divorce and feel so horribly guilty. It's easy to find support for those divorcing being the one who was left, but harder to find support when you are the one who has asked or may ask.
My life is good, decent and far from what I had when I first met my husband. I had been in a 7 year abusive relationship. I fell hard for this man who was/is decent,good and kind.
He was not particularly "my type" and I didn't have much attraction to him physically but I fell in love with him as a person.
Sex was o.k. but something always felt "off" and a bit uncomfortable. He seemed to not have a big desire for it and it made me wonder. I know it's false to assume all men want it all the time, but even early on in our marriage his desire seemed to lack. I asked him, he just said it wasn't that important. He was a bit overweight and lacking confidence. I was more experienced, but I didn't want him to think I was easy. I got comfortable in the wife and mother role and did everything to make our marraige "good." I remember having the "desire,sex" talk at 5 years, 10 years and 15 years. Here we are 22 years later and I realize his low drive had nothing to do with me. Not that we never had sex or that it was bad, just something was definitely missing. My attraction to him perhaps. I introduced toys, bought lingerie thinking I needed to keep things going, but honestly you can't reignite a flame that truly wasn't there to begin with.
The kids are older, we're settling into just us with life and our differences, not only sexually, are full force now. There is no particular bad thing in our relationship. We could go on easily like this, but I want more. I want someone with as much passion for life as I have, not just sex. I'm laughing all the time, he is quiet. I get the eye roll a lot. Anyway, I am feeling so horribly guilty that I want a divorce. I feel like I will never find someone who loves me like he does in so many ways. I hate the sadness and anger and hurt I will cause him and the kids. Would love to hear how some of you approached the divorce when there is no abuse, addiction, anger,etc. Did you regret leaving a good person?


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## SurpriseMyself

Corpuswife said:


> Wilson: You are right...you can read and talk but really action on both parts is the ONLY thing that works!
> 
> I do regret my divorce, after 25 years of marriage. I tried to save the marriage but he was already out before he uttered his thoughts. I didn't have a chance.
> 
> I regret it as my kids albeit they are old suffered. My ex and I are still close. He regrets it as well (per recent phone call). My daughter at 16 years old fell apart. My ex and I never suspected that it would take a toll on my daughter as it did.
> 
> I would, at the very least, waited until she was older to divorce.
> 
> I know it doesn't happen to all families and they transition fine. It didn't happen that way...even with counseling, understanding family, support, and parents that were consistent and loving....my kids suffered.


Did you argue a lot in front of the kids or no? Did they know or sense how bad your marriage was or did the divorce blindside them?

Kids who don't see their parents fight and don't know there are problems have a hard time with divorce. Kids who experienced ongoing conflict are often better off with divorce and happy that they don't live in a home filled with tension anymore.

There are studies to support the above.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dude007

What if you all find the new person after divorce that meets all these unmet needs, then they change after two years, five years etc? Are we all back here anyway? Just curious if this is an endless loop. DUDE


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## Dude007

FlaGirl said:


> I am contemplating divorce and feel so horribly guilty. It's easy to find support for those divorcing being the one who was left, but harder to find support when you are the one who has asked or may ask.
> My life is good, decent and far from what I had when I first met my husband. I had been in a 7 year abusive relationship. I fell hard for this man who was/is decent,good and kind.
> He was not particularly "my type" and I didn't have much attraction to him physically but I fell in love with him as a person.
> Sex was o.k. but something always felt "off" and a bit uncomfortable. He seemed to not have a big desire for it and it made me wonder. I know it's false to assume all men want it all the time, but even early on in our marriage his desire seemed to lack. I asked him, he just said it wasn't that important. He was a bit overweight and lacking confidence. I was more experienced, but I didn't want him to think I was easy. I got comfortable in the wife and mother role and did everything to make our marraige "good." I remember having the "desire,sex" talk at 5 years, 10 years and 15 years. Here we are 22 years later and I realize his low drive had nothing to do with me. Not that we never had sex or that it was bad, just something was definitely missing. My attraction to him perhaps. I introduced toys, bought lingerie thinking I needed to keep things going, but honestly you can't reignite a flame that truly wasn't there to begin with.
> The kids are older, we're settling into just us with life and our differences, not only sexually, are full force now. There is no particular bad thing in our relationship. We could go on easily like this, but I want more. I want someone with as much passion for life as I have, not just sex. I'm laughing all the time, he is quiet. I get the eye roll a lot. Anyway, I am feeling so horribly guilty that I want a divorce. I feel like I will never find someone who loves me like he does in so many ways. I hate the sadness and anger and hurt I will cause him and the kids. Would love to hear how some of you approached the divorce when there is no abuse, addiction, anger,etc. Did you regret leaving a good person?


WOW This could be me, only I'd be TXGuy...I would love to hear these answers you crave as well...DUDE


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## Nomorebeans

I regret that my passionless but very amicable marriage of 25 years ended by my ex husband never once telling me how terribly unhappy he was (nor showing it in any discernible way), disconnecting from me and the marriage completely without sharing with me that he was doing so, and then, when he was thoroughly detached, starting an affair with another woman, lying to me about it, and leaving me for her.

Don't do that. You say she knows about your dissatisfaction and has tried to make changes, but it isn't enough. That's more of a chance than I got. 

We still have an amicable relationship, but that's for the sake of our 13-year-old son.

We are not friends, however. He destroyed our friendship and my ability to ever fully trust a man again with his selfishness.

Have you tried marriage counseling? I think any 20+ year marriage deserves at least that.


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## Nomorebeans

Just adding that SurprisedMyself is right. My ex and I never fought or even bickered - period - let alone in front of our son. And we laughed all the time, right up until the moment I found out about the OW by accident in February. As far as he was concerned, we were as solid as could be. 

Our separation and divorce completely blindsided him, and he still struggles with the relative suddenness of it despite all our efforts to make things as easy for him as possible since we split.

It completely blindsided me, too. Please don't do that to your wife. If counseling is out of the question for you and you don't want to try anymore, at least be honest with her about that, give her time to process it, AND DO NOT CHEAT ON HER. Go be alone for a while, like you're sentencing her to be. At least be honorable.


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## Amplexor

Zombie Thread


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