# Domestic Violence I guess



## Jadiel (Oct 10, 2012)

This probably isn't the right place, as usual, but just trying to get a feel for things here...

So 5 months ago, my Mother-in-law and her boyfriend Jim had a big fight and split up. My wife went to see her mother, and Jim was still there, running his mouth, being insulting, invasive and pushy. It got to the point of him and my wife nose to nose yelling at each other, with Jim's fist raised, yelling at MIL stuff like "I'm gonna beat the **** out of your daughter now!"

So Wife punched him in the face. He called the cops, she got charged with assault. Cops admitted to my wife that they realized what was going on, could hear him taunting her, and weren't taking her to jail, but they pretty much had to summons her.

She plead not guilty, although she admitted to the cop what happened, so I dont see how that's gonna fly.

But between the incident and as recent as this week, we've been getting harassing phone calls, facebook messages and texts from Jim. Nothing outright incriminating, but just harrasment. Calling us names, challenging me to fistfights, spreading rumors about us, etc...basic harassment. sometimes its 3am when this happens. 

Is any of this going to come into play in court? Will the judge be like "oh wait, this guy is a ****. not guilty!" I doubt it, but I hope it'll at least be a mitigating factor. 

Anyone with experience in this sort of thing know what we can expect? The DA isn't seeking jail time so we don't get a free lawyer.


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## JustTired (Jan 22, 2012)

I would screenshot everything Jim sends you all & bring it to court. I would go as far as putting a restraining order on him for challenging you to a fight, you have the proof he challenged you.

Is your MIL still with this man? Because if she is, then I would highly suggest that you tell your wife to stay out of her mother's relationship. Your wife will end up catching more charges if she keeps on going over there trying to save her mother.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Yes. Keep IMMACULATE records of every single contact. Date, time, screenshots, method of transmission. Keep it in a notebook and present the notebook to the judge. Get a restraining order. And get her mom to therapy.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Two words: RESTRAINING ORDER!

Take your evidence to the police, give them his address or whereabouts, and by nightfall, he'll be in the clink and seeking legal representation as well as a bail bondsman!*


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Jadiel said:


> This probably isn't the right place, as usual, but just trying to get a feel for things here...
> 
> So 5 months ago, my Mother-in-law and her boyfriend Jim had a big fight and split up. My wife went to see her mother, and Jim was still there, running his mouth, being insulting, invasive and pushy. It got to the point of him and my wife nose to nose yelling at each other, with Jim's fist raised, yelling at MIL stuff like "I'm gonna beat the **** out of your daughter now!"
> 
> ...


Not that this really contributes much to your thread, but seriously... what a p*ssy.

And as far as him threatening you? Pssh... whatever. My response would probably be something like...

"Look, assh*le, _my wife_ beat your ass. And now you want some of me? That's fine. You know where I live. Fair warning, though -- my wife will be here."



Oh, and make sure that you're recording the phone calls, as well as saving the texts and FB messages. Once the charges against your wife have been dropped, file harassment charges against this d*ckhole.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Jadiel said:


> This probably isn't the right place, as usual, but just trying to get a feel for things here...
> 
> So 5 months ago, my Mother-in-law and her boyfriend Jim had a big fight and split up. My wife went to see her mother, and Jim was still there, running his mouth, being insulting, invasive and pushy. It got to the point of him and my wife nose to nose yelling at each other, with Jim's fist raised, yelling at MIL stuff like "I'm gonna beat the **** out of your daughter now!"
> 
> ...


So she plead not guilty? You had arraignment already? If so not much you can do about the court process. Unless the DA is really bored they will offer a reduced sentence for the misdemeanor assault. So that will likely just be a fine or community service or both. This part is not domestic violence. That's why the cops really had to charge cause it's a citizen arrest and we really can't tell a victim no you can't press charges. Now what they perhaps should have done was allow your wife to cross complaint for the harassment. What I would have done but wasn't there that night. 

In regard to the phone calls you need to take that back to the police. In most jurisdictions thier are laws against tampering with the victim or witness, to include the accused, of a harassment. They are called different things in differnt jurisdiction. But yu have to work with the police on that cause the judge doesn't investigate only proceeds and hands out judgements. If the cops give you blank stares ask to show it to a supervisor.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Harassing a witness is a no-no, so keep scrupulous copies of every contact this jerk makes and report to cops, and take to court.
It might be worth contacting the police with every contact he makes. Annoying for the cops, but it creates a paper trail for you to take to court and show the judge.

Consider pleading self-defense. With a bucket of harassment evidence in hand it should be easy to convince the judge.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Pluto2 said:


> Harassing a witness is a no-no, so keep scrupulous copies of every contact this jerk makes and report to cops, and take to court.
> It might be worth contacting the police with every contact he makes. Annoying for the cops, but it creates a paper trail for you to take to court and show the judge.
> 
> Consider pleading self-defense. With a bucket of harassment evidence in hand it should be easy to convince the judge.


This

Meanwhile, I would have a serious conversation with my wife. No woman,should raise their hand or hit a man.....EVER. She is VERY lucky that she didn't get hurt that day.

I will tell you right now, this guy Jim probably has certain level of self control cause ANYONE (of ANY GENDER) comes swinging at me, I'm fighting back (we are talking human survival instincts here).

Tell her NOT to put herself in harms way. She should've told her mom to call police. Her mom is a grown adult that should be capable of dealing with situations like that. 

Sorry but what your wife did is not smart AT ALL. 

"No man should ever hit a woman" goes both ways. No woman should EVER hit a man!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jadiel said:


> It got to the point of him and my wife nose to nose yelling at each other, with Jim's fist raised, yelling at MIL stuff like "I'm gonna beat the **** out of your daughter now!"
> 
> So Wife punched him in the face.


He was threating the OP's wife. He had his fist raised. It's easy to believe that she punched him in self defense.

It's perfectly acceptable to punch/hit someone in self defense when there is a credible treat.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jadiel,

You need to record the phone calls as well as keep record of all other threats and harassment.

What state do you live in? Is it a single party state for recording conversations?

State by State Compliance

You can look up your state at this link for more details.

Recording Phone Calls and Conversations | Digital Media Law Project


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## Nynaeve (Jun 19, 2013)

Jadiel said:


> This probably isn't the right place, as usual, but just trying to get a feel for things here...
> 
> So 5 months ago, my Mother-in-law and her boyfriend Jim had a big fight and split up. My wife went to see her mother, and Jim was still there, running his mouth, being insulting, invasive and pushy. It got to the point of him and my wife nose to nose yelling at each other, with Jim's fist raised, yelling at MIL stuff like "I'm gonna beat the **** out of your daughter now!"
> 
> ...



Disclaimer: I'm a lawyer, but I'm not able to give you specific legal advice concerning your situation. What follows is general legal information.

Generally speaking, events that happen after the alleged crime are not relevant or admissible in court. They have no bearing on whether the accused committed the crime he or she is accused with.

Such things _may_ be admissible for sentencing but not for determining guilt.


You should look into getting a restraining/protective order against him. Then at least he will stop harassing you and/or you can get him for violation of the order.


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

Screenshot it all and DO NOT respond to anything he does. Keep your mouths shut. He wants a reaction, the less he gets from you the faster he moves on.

Those who believe rumours aren't worth defending yourself to. Those who don't believe rumours you don't need to defend yourself to.

He won't remove himself from the chaos and drama because he is immature, you need to remove yourselves. File a police complaint with all the screen shots in hand.

Wife should be gathering all this evidence for her day in court too. It shows that he enticed the primary incident and can help her not guilty plea.

Say nothing and keep documenting.


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## Nynaeve (Jun 19, 2013)

Also, it's not too late to talk to a lawyer.

People think judges will just listen to their story and they'll be okay. That's not how it works. Judges are constrained by the rules of evidence and procedure. And some of them are just really jaded and assume all defendants are lying.

A lawyer could mean the difference between conviction and acquittal in this case. There does seem to be a strong self-defense defense here. But if you don't bring up in the right way at court, the judge may or may not even listen to you.

Where I live, pretty much the only time judges let defendants just tell their side of the story is after they've plead guilty. 

If you don't have a lawyer and you just start talking, telling your story, you end up running the risk of waiving your right not to incriminate yourself - admitting "yeah, I hit him" but then not getting the self-defense part properly admitted into evidence. And then you're screwed.


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## Nynaeve (Jun 19, 2013)

CantePe said:


> Wife should be gathering all this evidence for her day in court too. It shows that he enticed the primary incident and can help her not guilty plea.



No, it doesn't. It shows that he harassed her AFTER she hit him. It doesn't show one way or another that he threatened or harassed her BEFORE she hit him. And that is the only thing that will be relevant at trial.


OP, please talk to a lawyer. Asking for legal advice on a non-legal internet forum is only going to get you a lot of wrong advice.


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## Jadiel (Oct 10, 2012)

Still trying to get the wife and MIL to get a lawyer. MIL seems to think she's going to have a sit down with the judge and explain her side and everything will be fine and we'll all have tea and cupcakes.

But we ARE getting a restraining order today, finally. We have a mountain of threats and harassment and other stuff and the cops have been called a few times, everythings on record. He's a nut.

In the meantime I am on diligent guard duty around the house, which is convenient since I'm currently on a layoff and have lots of free time. I almost want him to come over here and start ****, but not when my family is around. I don't own any firearms but I have a variety of household items that make excellent weapons. 

As far as her assault charge and the harassment, I would like to think that while its not overly relevent to the incident at hand, it shows his character. It shows how he can instigate stuff, it shows he's scary and dangerous and how my wife would have felt fearful enough at the time in question to strike him. Hey, thats how it goes down on The Practice lol...

Fun fact: Douche hasn't filed his taxes in over 10 years. And he's self employed so its not like he only missed out on a refund or something. I'm thinking we'll be notifying the IRS.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I'd do it now, so he's so busy with that he forgets about you guys.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Jadiel said:


> Still trying to get the wife and MIL to get a lawyer. MIL seems to think she's going to have a sit down with the judge and explain her side and everything will be fine and we'll all have tea and cupcakes.
> 
> But we ARE getting a restraining order today, finally. We have a mountain of threats and harassment and other stuff and the cops have been called a few times, everythings on record. He's a nut.
> 
> ...


Deep breath. This is how things escalate worse and people end up dying. Stick to gathering evidence and the restraining order.


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## MLK22 (Jan 13, 2015)

I don't have any advice. I just had to say that this BLOWS. If there's one thing I simply CANNOT stand is a man who bullies women because he can. I have been in the unfortunate circumstance where a male tried to physically intimidate me, in my personal space, in a threatening and aggressive manner. I have done the same thing as your wife did. My school of thought (I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV) - if I'm flinching, if I'm nervous, you're nose to nose with me and I'm afraid, this it's self defence. Also, who the f#ck are YOU too make me feel afraid.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Jadiel said:


> Fun fact: Douche hasn't filed his taxes in over 10 years. And he's self employed so its not like he only missed out on a refund or something. I'm thinking we'll be notifying the IRS.


Was your MIL involved in this business in any way?


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## luvinhim (Jun 25, 2014)

Well all I can say is your wife should have kept her hands to hereself. She had no right to punch the guys in the face. 
Never get involved in domestic disbutes. 

If her mother will not stand up to the guy she should stay out of it.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

luvinhim said:


> Well all I can say is your wife should have kept her hands to hereself. She had no right to punch the guys in the face.
> Never get involved in domestic disbutes.
> 
> If her mother will not stand up to the guy she should stay out of it.





Jadiel said:


> My wife went to see her mother, and Jim was still there, running his mouth, being insulting, invasive and pushy. *It got to the point of him and my wife nose to nose yelling at each other, with Jim's fist raised, yelling at MIL stuff like "I'm gonna beat the **** out of your daughter now!"*
> 
> *So Wife punched him in the face.*


She had a right to defend herself. Period.


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## Jadiel (Oct 10, 2012)

luvinhim said:


> Well all I can say is your wife should have kept her hands to hereself. She had no right to punch the guys in the face.
> Never get involved in domestic disbutes.
> 
> If her mother will not stand up to the guy she should stay out of it.


Honestly when I first heard about it I disapproved. I'm all for self defense but I don't believe violence is the answer to verbal assault. In my opinion, if someone calls you out on something and you respond with violence,you're just admitting "Yeah, everything you said about me is true."

This was not the case however, and when I found out the truth I changed my tune. Once the threats are made and the fists are up in combat position, it's violence time. 


As far as the tax issue, my MIL was only involved as far as being in a relationship with him and knowing about it. They didn't have any money tied up in business or anything like that.


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