# Women & Orgasms



## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> If Jason Mamoa himself ......


Jason Mamoa, Oldshirt???
Did you really have to mention *JASON MOMOA*?
I'm waking my husband up!

I'm so glad you posted this, Allie. I'm SOOOO glad you're here. And I'm glad I couldn't sleep to be awake at this ridiculous hour and see your post. I'm glad because I was you in my first marriage. he big difference between us though is I got out of my marriage so I could explore sex with other men in order to discover the magical component that you mention. I knew it wasn't there and even though I didn't know what it was, I did know I was missing it....and I wanted it, so I had to go. I'm glad you have more tenacity than I did, but I wasn't one to just assume I didn't or couldn't enjoy sex. I'm glad I left, or I wouldn't be so happy to meet you because I think I can offer you some help.

First, I'd like to ask you to read Oldshirt's posts again....and again. But, I have to ask you to please ignore this one sentence: _"Roughly 75% of women are not able to orgasm through penile penetration alone."_

That kind of statement is what a lot of doctors/articles/surveys claim, but it's not true. I'm not sure how Oldshirt meant it, but that statement can be taken a couple different ways. One way is to take it literally to mean it isn't possible for 75% of women to have vaginal orgasms. Another way is to take it to mean 75% of women are not able to have vaginal orgasms without additional stimulation, such as to the clitoris. However one means or construes that statement, it is NOT true. That vaginal orgasm has not happened for most women doesn't mean it can't happen. All that means is they and their partner don't know how to make it happen. And women for whom it has never happened would naturally answer that type of survey question with "No I cannot have vaginal orgasms" because they don't know that they can.

I'm not trying to say every single woman on earth can, but I am saying that percentage can be turned around to state something more like "75% of women have vaginal orgasms" if only the necessary education were as widely broadcast as that untrue statement is. So know that you are not alone in thinking you don't like sex. Obviously, you and your vibrator have a relationship, so you can't say you don't like sex. You don't like sex with your husband, which is the type of thing a lot of women say, usually not until they discover with someone else how good sex can be. You just need to include your husband and help him learn your body, what you need him to do, and how you need him to do it.

Since you and your husband were both inexperienced, it is not surprising that sex is not satisfying to you. You guys are doing what comes naturally, which is to screw. Screwing is the humping, in and out mechanics of sexual intercourse. That's what you do because that's all you know to do. That feels good to him because of the way his body is built. The frenulum area of his penis is sensitive so that it responds to friction, and friction is what the in and out motion creates.

However, there is nothing in a woman's vagina that responds to friction, so you need more than just the mechanical movement. What you have are erogenous zones that respond to pressure. That's what Oldshirt means by your husband has to learn how to push the right buttons.

I want to ask you to read *my post here* in this thread. I offer somewhat in-depth advice on a few techniques. Tweak and adjust according to your preferences.

Also, please read this article: *How Finding My A-Spot Unlocked the Best Orgasm of My Life*
Know also that a lot of women are bored by intercourse, as the author of the article mentions that she was. But your husband learning about your A-Spot will cure that boredom. And if he isn't able to reach your A-Spot, another way for him to give you vaginal orgasms is to learn about your G-Spot, which is much easier for him to reach because it's not positioned as far or as deep within you. I explain both spots in my first link above.

This article talks about the same things but might include more explanations and good suggestions:
*How To Experience Full Body Orgasmic Bliss*



alliexoxo said:


> I don't like sex.....I’m thinking about going to the doctor and asking for some type of hormone.


If you do that, your vibrator will call the doctor and let him know you are lying. LOL

But you can enhance the experience by making your nerve endings more sensitive. I used to love *Ginseng Gum* because it works quickly (within 20 minutes or less) and makes sex more pleasurable.



alliexoxo said:


> I wish I liked sex and think we need to have more of it before we get too old and can’t. I’m afraid I’ll have regrets.


I bet you didn't know that one of the biggest rises in venereal disease has been among senior communities. I bet there are a lot of 70 and 80 year olds who would like to teach you a thing or two about the word "can't."

I'm wondering if you made this post before. What you wrote sounds very familiar.



.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

StarFires said:


> First, I'd like to ask you to read Oldshirt's posts again....and again. But, I have to ask you to please ignore this one sentence: _"Roughly 75% of women are not able to orgasm through penile penetration alone."_
> 
> That kind of statement is what a lot of doctors/articles/surveys claim, but it's not true. I'm not sure how Oldshirt meant it, but that statement can be taken a couple different ways. One way is to take it literally to mean it isn't possible for 75% of women to have vaginal orgasms. Another way is to take it to mean 75% of women are not able to have vaginal orgasms without additional stimulation, such as to the clitoris. However one means or construes that statement, it is NOT true. That vaginal orgasm has not happened for most women doesn't mean it can't happen. All that means is they and their partner don't know how to make it happen. And women for whom it has never happened would naturally answer that type of survey with "No I cannot have vaginal orgasms" because they don't know that they can.
> 
> ...


OK yes, this is worded better than what I wrote and is a much more accurate statement. 

Maybe a better way of saying it is that most women are not to have a wonderful sexual experience and orgasm if they have a few minutes of foreplay, jump right into PIV alone that lasts 2 minutes until the guy is done and then he calls it game over and rolls over and goes to sleep. 

People can learn to orgasm via PIV but both the man and the woman need to learn where her buttons and switches are and how to activate them.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> Maybe a better way of saying it is that most women are not to have a wonderful sexual experience and orgasm if they have a few minutes of foreplay, jump right into PIV alone that lasts 2 minutes until the guy is done and then he calls it game over and rolls over and goes to sleep.


And then asks "Was it good for you too?"
hahahahah hahaha


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## gr8ful1 (Dec 3, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> @alliexoxo,
> About 75% of women cannot have an orgasm from intercourse. Most women need more than just penetration to orgasm and even to feel much of anything sexually.


You and oldshirt quoted that same stat, and I’ve believed it for many years, since it’s so often repeated. Then StarFires above said point—blank “that’s not true”, with the implied meaning, since my wife has only had a PIV orgasm a few times in our 25+ yr relationship, that I must suck as a lover. Thanks for screwing up my head lol


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

gr8ful1 said:


> You and oldshirt quoted that same stat, and I’ve believed it for many years, since it’s so often repeated. Then StarFires above said point—blank “that’s not true”, with the implied meaning, since my wife has only had a PIV orgasm a few times in our 25+ yr relationship, that I must suck as a lover. Thanks for screwing up my head lol


You need to keep in mind that StarFire is not an expert on the topic. The statistic of 75% comes from several different studies that have been done by actual scientists, researchers, doctors. I'll go with what the actual researchers have found.

I'm a woman who is high drive. I've had a lot of mind blowing sex... often with several orgasms each time. I have never, ever had a PIV orgasm. I love PIV, but it does not do enough to give me an orgasm. I, like most women, are not built in a way that the penis stimulates us to give us an orgasm.

I've read things written by anthropologists, MD's, scientists that say that women not being able to cum from PIV makes sense evolution wise. This is because if a woman stays laying down after intercourse and sexual play continues, it makes it a lot easier for sperm to get to the egg. If women generally have organisms from intercourse, they would be more likely to stand up after that and the sperm would run out of them, and thus not reach her eggs.

If your wife is having orgasms via something other than PIV, you are a good lover. Don't let StarFire screw with your head.

There is a book that addresses this. The books name comes from the fact that most women cannot cum from PIV.

*She Comes First: The Thinking Man's Guide to Pleasuring a Woman *
by Ian Kerner


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

gr8ful1 said:


> You and oldshirt quoted that same stat, and I’ve believed it for many years, since it’s so often repeated. Then StarFires above said point—blank “that’s not true”, with the implied meaning, since my wife has only had a PIV orgasm a few times in our 25+ yr relationship, that I must suck as a lover. Thanks for screwing up my head lol


Like all stats, it is subject to interpretation and nuance. 

Some stats and authorities will cite the decades old stat of 75% of cannot orgasm through PIV which may go all the way back to Kinsey or Masters and Johnson from the 60s and 70s. 

By the 80s/90 then there was the G-spot. Then by 2000s was the A-spot and Front Spot and Rear Spot around the cervix. 

And now there are those saying that the clitoris is actually many times larger and more erectile than previously appreciated and that basically all orgasms are clitoral in nature and that the inner walls of the vagina itself is not all that sensitive. 

My wife has always been a PIV orgasmer (is that a word) and really doesn’t dig oral or manual that much. She can orgasm from manual/oral but much prefers PIV. 

......and if there is a Hatachi or vibrating bullet to the clit with the PIV, all the better.

However I have learned how to direct the head of my penis to her “spots” and I am not sure what her response would be if I just entered and limited it to just straight in and out thrusting. 

I don’t see intercourse as simply thrusting but rather view it as technique driven where I am manipulating and stimulating her nerve centers with my penis. Whether you want to call those tissues G-spot, A-spot, internal clitoral tissue etc is academic and doesn’t really matter because either way it works.

I think many couples can learn to do this and women that previously had not orgasmed from PIV can.

This sounds kind of weird but you have to think of the vagina/clitoris as a penis (because in a way it is. We all had the same tissue as a developing fetus)

It must be stimulated and brought to full engorgement and erection. 

Simply wet is not sufficient in many cases. A wet vagina is not necessarily a fully aroused and ready vagina. 

I’m not going to argue percentages and whether it is 75% or 72.39% or 15% or whatever that can or cannot orgasm through PIV alone because I no longer believe that vaginas and clitorises are separate entities. 

I believe they are fully integrated to a degree not fully appreciated even a number of years ago.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

anterior fornix or A-Spot

Note that it was 'discovered' by one doctor in 1997. In the study, only 15% of the women reached orgasms from A-Spot stimulation. That's way below the 25% who can reach orgasm via PIV.

Humans have been on this earth for at least 200,000 years. But this was not 'discovered' until 1997. Now this is being sold as the end all of sex for women. Wow, so i guess for the first 199,999,977 years sex just sucked for women.

*"Does everyone have it?*​​_Nope! Only cisgender women and people assigned female at birth have the potential to reach this spot._​​_That said, there is some speculation around whether this particular spot actually exists. But most sex educators and experts agree it’s real, thanks to anecdotal reports and one experiment conducted in 1997._​​_In the study, doctor and sex educator Chua Chee Ann administered repeated stroking on the anterior vaginal wall to a group of folks with vulvas for 10 to 15 minutes._​​_The result? Two-thirds of the participants experienced boosted vaginal lubrication and 15 percent reached orgasm._​​_This is said to be how the A-spot was discovered."_​








Is the A-Spot the Same Thing As the G-Spot?


No, but they do go hand-in-hand. Once you locate your G-spot, you're well on your way to the land of A-spot bliss. Here's how.




www.healthline.com


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

EleGirl said:


> Humans have been on this earth for at least 200,000 years. But this was not 'discovered' until 1997. Now this is being sold as the end all of sex for women. Wow, so i guess for the first 199,999,977 years sex just sucked for women.


That statement is so loaded it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to address it or to say it because nobody suggested the A-Spot orgasm is the "end all of sex for women." Nor did anyone say it was never discovered before 1997. What is said is that doctor discovered it in 1997, but that isn't to say no one discovered it before him. Since it does exist and since, by his discovery, it is now widely known that women can have A-Spot orgasms, it stands to reason that some women somewhere at some point in time had such an orgasm or numerous ones throughout their lives, in which case they are the ones who discovered it. Because they didn't broadcast their discovery doesn't mean it didn't exist until some doctor wrote a report about it. It was there to be found, and it was fully functional all the long, so somebody found that out if purely by accident since there was no study or internet articles to direct them in how to find it.

If I had many partners with whom sex sucked for me because they did nothing for me sexually, I can't imagine what sex was like for a great number of women throughout those 199,999,977 years since for the vast majority of those years, women didn't have multiple partners in order to determine who did or didn't work for them. They married the man they met or the one arranged for them, and sex was whatever it was. They got lucky if it was good. Thus the invention of the aversion "headache." So yeah, I'm betting it pretty much sucked for most. Or they had affairs, as has been fairly recently discovered thanks to DNA testing. The saying "Mama's baby, Daddy's maybe" was derived from desperate search for sexual satisfaction, which was often labeled "promiscuity."


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

gr8ful1 said:


> You and oldshirt quoted that same stat, and I’ve believed it for many years, since it’s so often repeated. Then StarFires above said point—blank “that’s not true”, with the implied meaning, since my wife has only had a PIV an sorgasm a few times in our 25+ yr relationship, that I must suck as a lover. Thanks for screwing up my head lol


You need to keep in mind that EleGirl is not an expert on the topic. The statistic of 75% is absolutely not true, and that comes from several different studies that have been done by actual scientists, researchers, doctors, my own experience, and the various testimonies and instructional articles found in *this 942,000 Google search results*. I'll go with what ALL of us have found.

I'm a woman who is high drive, even more so after menopause. I've had a lot of mind-blowing sex... often with several orgasms each time. I have very often experienced PIV orgasms. I love PIV, and it works for me because my husband knows how to do it. I am, like most women are, built in a way that the penis can surely stimulate us to give us vaginal orgasms when our partner knows what he is doing and cares enough for our sexual health and satisfaction to learn how to please us in that manner, as was done in* this article*.

*____*

*Orgasming during sex has been associated with 15 per cent higher chance of conceiving *
Dr. Robert King

Dr Robert King is a lecturer in applied psychology at the University College Cork, Ireland, and he claims that orgasming can boost a woman's chance of conceiving by as much as 15 percent. During his own clinical research, he found that when women orgasms, a unique reaction causes a man's sperm to be "sucked" to the dominant ovary, boosting the chances of conception.

“Some argued that female orgasms mustn't do anything, not even forge closer bonds between partners, because it's hard to bring about. “But the fact that it's sometimes tricky to achieve doesn't mean that it's not a vital evolutionary function......“In general, females orgasm more with smart, considerate, vigorous lovers with a nice smell - this last one is important because it signifies a compatible immune system!”

Dr King suspects the phenomenon is caused by the release of the hormone Oxytocin during female orgasm, which in turn causes a wave of small contractions transporting the sperm to where it needs to be. Dr King adds: “Sperm retention in the womb equates to better chances of falling pregnant, as the sperm is taken up into the uterus via the cervix.

Dr King is not alone in promoting the benefits of female orgasm. Leading fertility expert Dr Hana Visnova, medical director at respected European fertility clinic IVF Cube in Prague, Czech Republic, says it’s vital couples maintain real intimacy when faced with fertility issues - and female orgasm is part of that healthy relationship. She says: “There's growing evidence of a link between female orgasm and pregnancy rates and it’s an area that warrants further research.

*Measuring sperm backflow following female orgasm: a new method*
Robert King, PhD,1,* Maria Dempsey, PhD,1 and Katherine A. Valentine, PhD2

.....The small sample of women did report (from the relevant closed question in the questionnaire, Appendix 2) that they experienced their orgasms deep inside – what is sometimes, albeit erroneously, called a ‘vaginal orgasm’.....In terms of future directions, even if human female orgasm is established (through subsequent study) to be sperm retaining, the precise mechanism of retention is still disputed by physiological scholars in the field. Some have argued that during female orgasm, the cervix tents slowing sperm intake and thereby increasing fertility (Levin, 1998). Others have argued that female orgasm, or at least the oxytocin release associated with it, facilitates rapid transfer of sperm (Wildt et al., 1998; Zervomanolakis et al., 2007). Either of these sperm-retaining proximate mechanisms would serve the same ultimate function – of increasing fertility – if orgasms occur selectively. And this, they appear to do (Gangestad & Thornhill, 1995; King & Belsky, 2012). The evolutionary function (if any) and the proximate mechanism (whichever it may or may not be) need to be kept conceptually distinct in people's minds lest huge confusions occur.....Indeed, a prominent fertility specialist is on record as saying that it is his belief that female inorgasmia explains some of the variance in fertility once other variables have been controlled for (Winston, 2010). The procedures outlined here could easily be envisaged to form part of the protocols to assist fertility in some couples as well as providing a procedure for assessing the function of female orgasm. As such, we submit that there is a proof of concept of sperm retention function of female orgasm, and a method for investigating the function of the same could be developed.

*____*

So, clearly there is no question that women are able to have vaginal orgasms. It is also clear that although the method by which the cervix and uterus work together to facilitate pregnancy is debatable (the uptake or intake methods that scholars can't seem to agree on), neither of the theories have anything to do with nor prohibit standing. Crackpot science abounds if you choose to believe everything you read.

Please understand, gr8ful1, that not every man is necessarily able to make his partner cum by way of the A-Spot because not every man is long/large enough to reach the Anterior Fornix due to its considerably deeper position than the G-Spot, but that hardly means the woman is incapable of having that type of orgasm. However, men of almost any size can still give a woman a vaginal orgasm by way of her G-Spot. Understand also that you might not know what type of orgasm your wife has had. Only she can tell you that. Both G-Spot and A-Spot orgasms are vaginal orgasms that can be achieved by way of intercourse (PIV) without stimulation of the outside portion of the clitoris to accompany. 

Since your wife has had vaginal orgasms of whichever kind, it sounds from your post that they were achieved by accident, meaning not intentional on your part. But it may be worth learning where her two zones are located and learning how to directly and intentionally stimulate them with your penis in order to provide that pleasure.

Nothing that I nor Oldshirt posted questioned or challenged your abilities or your integrity as a lover. Indeed, your wife HAS had vaginal orgasms before, and there is no doubt in my mind you can learn how to accomplish those again with purpose and intention. The Google link I posted above offers many, many pages of instructive articles, as does the second link I posted above

And being that you let us know your wife HAS had vaginal orgasms before, it would be nonsensical of me or anyone to suggest books or articles that ignore that fact, particularly since learning how to achieve vaginal orgasms is what this portion of the discussion is all about and was introduced to assist the OP in her edification and understanding of female sexual pleasure. So don't let EleGirl screw with your head.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

StarFires said:


> You need to keep in mind that EleGirl is not an expert on the topic.





StarFires said:


> So don't let EleGirl screw with your head.


I have not claimed to be an expert. You on the other hand are claiming to be expert and the final word on this topic. You are not. You know your own experience and that’s it. Do not use TAM to pass on false claims that are not backed up by science and medical research.

It’s ok to post books and other info that you feel helped you. It’s another to tell people to ignore science and medical research.



StarFires said:


> my own experience,


Your own experience only proves whatever your personal experience is. It does not prove anything about the 75% of women who have never had a PIV orgasm and who are not able to have them.

It’s wrong to put pressure on women who cannot achieve PIV orgasms. Basically, what you are doing is saying that there is something wrong with them if they are unable to do so. Or there is something wrong with their partner.



StarFires said:


> and the various testimonies and instructional articles found in *this 942,000 Google search results*. I'll go with what ALL of us have found.


Gee, I googled “bigfoot” which turned up 30,600,000 results. A search on “alien abduction: turned up 10,800,000 results. I guess that proves “bigfoot” exists and “alien abductions” are real.



StarFires said:


> I'm a woman who is high drive, even more so after menopause. I've had a lot of mind-blowing sex... often with several orgasms each time. I have very often experienced PIV orgasms. I love PIV, and it works for me because my husband knows how to do it. I am, like most women are, built in a way that the penis can surely stimulate us to give us vaginal orgasms when our partner knows what he is doing and cares enough for our sexual health and satisfaction to learn how to please us in that manner, as was done in* this article*.


Here's the problem with your claims. All this proves is that you are one of the 25% of women who can have PIV orgasms. Most women cannot and what your claims are doing is putting a huge gilt trip on women who are different than you. Do you really think that it helps women who come here saying that they are the problem if they cannot have an orgasm from PIV?

_*Female Orgasm May Be Tied to 'Rule of Thumb'*_​_About 75 percent of all women never reach orgasm from intercourse alone -- that is without the extra help of sex toys, hands or tongue. And 10 to 15 percent never climax under any circumstances._​
_*The Most Important Sexual Statistic*_​_Only 25 percent of women are consistently orgasmic during vaginal intercourse._​​_This bears repeating: Only one-quarter of women reliably experience orgasm during intercourse—no matter how long it lasts, no matter what size the man's penis, and no matter how the woman feels about the man or the relationship._​​_This statistic comes not from just one study but from a comprehensive analysis of 33 studies over the past 80 years by Elisabeth Lloyd in her fascinating book The Case of the Female Orgasm (Harvard University Press)._​


StarFires said:


> *Orgasming during sex has been associated with 15 per cent higher chance of conceiving *


Note that “orgasming during sex” does not mean necessarily during intercourse. Note that in Dr. King’s study, the subject women had sex with vibrators, not men. His assumption is that 15% more liquid in the womb means 15% higher chance of conceiving. He has not proven that there is a 15% higher chance of conceiving.

_*Does Having an Orgasm Help You Get Pregnant? Oh Yes! – Kveller*_​_In his study, King asked the six female participants (ages 26 to 52) to record the amount of orgasms they had per month while using a vibrator. The doctor then compared the quantity of liquid in the women’s’ wombs when they orgasmed, and when they didn’t. He found that when his participants climaxed, they held up to 15 percent more liquid in their womb, which suggests the amount of sperm a woman can hold when she orgasms._​​_“Sperm retention in the womb equates to better chances of falling pregnant, as the sperm is taken up into the uterus via the cervix,” King said in a press release. “And female orgasm significantly aids this process.”_​


StarFires said:


> So, clearly there is no question that women are able to have vaginal orgasms.


Note that the quote you posted from Dr. King’s research says that the the term “vaginal orgasm” is erroneous.

_“The small sample of women did report (from the relevant closed question in the questionnaire, Appendix 2) that they experienced their orgasms deep inside – what is sometimes, albeit erroneously, called a ‘vaginal orgasm’ “_​


StarFires said:


> Please understand, gr8ful1, that not every man is necessarily able to make his partner cum by way of the A-Spot because not every man is long/large enough to reach the Anterior Fornix due to its considerably deeper position than the G-Spot, but that hardly means the woman is incapable of having that type of orgasm. However, men of almost any size can still give a woman a vaginal orgasm by way of her G-Spot. Understand also that you might not know what type of orgasm your wife has had. Only she can tell you that. Both G-Spot and A-Spot orgasms are vaginal orgasms that can be achieved by way of intercourse (PIV) without stimulation of the outside portion of the clitoris to accompany.


To address the above… let’s start with the fact that the G-Spot does not exit. That fact basically blows your comments here out of the water.


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

Shorter clitoral distance from vaginal opening associated to PIV orgasms. NIH link to source.

Apparently, if the distance from the clitoris to the vaginal opening is too big, PIV alone is very unlikely (or impossible) to bring about an orgasm.

Edit: @EleGirl posted a link to a similar article ("Rule of Thumb") from a different source than I found.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Do not use TAM to pass on false claims that are not backed up by science and medical research.


_"...women's orgasms exist as a byproduct––a result of the fact that make and female genitals develop homologously. Male ejaculation, with its close tie to orgasm, is crucial to reproduction, so orgasms is embedded in male sexual hardware in the brain and genitals. As a result, orgasm is embedded in female sexual hardware, too, because: homology."_

COME AS YOU ARE - Emily Nagoski, Ph.D.

The above is an idea that my wife has always felt to be true. It is the idea that women are not meant to orgasm by evolutionary design, but that the female body can do it because this attribute was inherited from male biology. So females can orgasm as a result of an evolutionary bonus because her body parts are made up of the same parts as a man. Same reason some men enjoy having their nipples stimulated because his body parts are made up of the same parts as a woman. 

As for female orgasm via PIV, since men and women are formed homologously, Emily Nogoski mentions in her research this would be the equivalent of a male achieving orgasm via exclusive stimulation of his p-spot (penetration of the male anus). Some men can do that! I in my opinion I bet that if there were a scientific survey done on men having things shoved up their anus for prostate stimulation that scientist might find that roughly 75% of men are unable to achieve an orgasm that way. 

Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

StarFires said:


> If you do that, your vibrator will call the doctor and let him know you are lying.


Oh this made me smile 😂!


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

If a woman has ever had a female version of a wet dream, I believe she can orgasm with piv alone because her brain is doing the work anyway. Of course conscious thought and a not very good partner can be distracting.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

gr8ful1 said:


> You and oldshirt quoted that same stat, and I’ve believed it for many years, since it’s so often repeated. Then StarFires above said point—blank “that’s not true”, with the implied meaning, since my wife has only had a PIV orgasm a few times in our 25+ yr relationship, that I must suck as a lover. Thanks for screwing up my head lol


I am an amazing lover and Mrs. Conan has never had a piv with me or anyone else so you are fine.😁
My wife has come extremely close with me and I have been able to give her a g spot O with my finger.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

One thing we have observed, (Mrs Taxman is on with me here). The orgasms have evolved over the years with age and practice. When we were first married, my wife had difficulty with one orgasm. After the birth of our children, with practice, she became multiply orgasmic. In the last fifteen, we discovered that she is a female ejaculator, and is capable of one new orgasm every few minutes. The orgasms are clitoral, vaginal and a few that come from god knows where.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

StarFires said:


> The saying "Mama's baby, Daddy's maybe" *was derived from desperate search for sexual satisfaction*, which was often labeled "promiscuity."


No..no and no. You don't know what you are talking about. Women (and men) seeking sexual satisfaction elsewhere other than their partner has nothing to do with sexual satisfaction, but more, more intrinsically with an ingrained genetic drive to ensure genetic diversity within the species. This is a drive that all living things unconsciously seek. Mother nature through natural selection has made sure through various means to achieve just that. In primates (humans being parts of it) that has been achieved through non monogamous mating (humans are not monogamous by nature, nor are some other primates), if they were we would not be here talking about cheating, seeking other mates (but that's another topic). As humans even with our high degree of consciousness, we still act and think as what we are doing is strictly because YOU CHOSE to do it, but in reality is really not quite. There are pressures acting in your body through your hormonal system that does affect and tries to direct you emotionally to do what that drive is: mate and procreate to continue passing on those genes (which is the ultimate goal of any living thing), the more mates you procreate with the more the genetic diversity is achieved. For males this is in complete opposition to their genes wanting to be the one and only one to be pass on, but that's another rather long topic. 

It works both ways, males and females seek the same: mating. the drive is higher on some or low in others; it depends on your genetic make up and what type of hormonal composition you get in the genetic lottery. One may think that he/she is looking for a better partner to satisfy that sexual hunger, but deep down all you are doing is following the laws of nature, what's being demanded of you by your genetic makeup; that's not to say that you as an organism don't have a say. Living things go against their nature all the time. This came be a good thing for the individual,and/or the species, it all depends on what ultimately is achieved by that action, e.g., a better adaptation to a particular stimulus that could in the long range be pass on through genes to the next generation. 

So no, you may think you are seeking better sexual satisfaction, but not really. Mother nature does not care about your sexual satisfaction, it only cares that you pass on those genes. That's the ultimate goal of sex in nature.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Rob_1 said:


> No..no and no. You don't know what you are talking about. Women (and men) seeking sexual satisfaction elsewhere other than their partner has nothing to do with sexual satisfaction, but more, more intrinsically with an ingrained genetic drive to ensure genetic diversity within the species. This is a drive that all living things unconsciously seek. Mother nature through natural selection has made sure through various means to achieve just that. In primates (humans being parts of it) that has been achieved through non monogamous mating (humans are not monogamous by nature, nor are some other primates), if they were we would not be here talking about cheating, seeking other mates (but that's another topic). As humans even with our high degree of consciousness, we still act and think as what we are doing is strictly because YOU CHOSE to do it, but in reality is really not quite. There are pressures acting in your body through your hormonal system that does affect and tries to direct you emotionally to do what that drive is: mate and procreate to continue passing on those genes (which is the ultimate goal of any living thing), the more mates you procreate with the more the genetic diversity is achieved. For males this is in complete opposition to their genes wanting to be the one and only one to be pass on, but that's another rather long topic.
> 
> It works both ways, males and females seek the same: mating. the drive is higher on some or low in others; it depends on your genetic make up and what type of hormonal composition you get in the genetic lottery. One may think that he/she is looking for a better partner to satisfy that sexual hunger, but deep down all you are doing is following the laws of nature, what's being demanded of you by your genetic makeup; that's not to say that you as an organism don't have a say. Living things go against their nature all the time. This came be a good thing for the individual,and/or the species, it all depends on what ultimately is achieved by that action, e.g., a better adaptation to a particular stimulus that could in the long range be pass on through genes to the next generation.
> 
> So no, you may think you are seeking better sexual satisfaction, but not really. Mother nature does not care about your sexual satisfaction, it only cares that you pass on those genes. That's the ultimate goal of sex in nature.


Kindly, you've said a lot, but with little human relationship depth of meaning.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Kindly, you've said a lot, but with little human relationship depth of meaning.


because like anything else in nature, human relationships and depth of meaning has usually very little to do with the "innate drive for sex" that we all experience in surges at times (not the sex drive within a relationship). I was trying to explain the reasons why behind that what we yearn and rationalize to follow that sex drive. Just like nature, human relationships are a constant ebb and flow, constantly determining our next actions, sexually or emotionally, but always driven within ourselves. Hope I explained it that I was talking about just our innate drive for sex, not what we actually determine to do with our lives from an emotional point of view.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I am not a medical researcher, physician, physiologist or any like that but I have had my fingers, tongue and penis inside a lot of vaginas and clitorises and the whole alphabet soup of “spots” over the years. 

I’m not going to argue over percentages and such but I do want to point out there there are differences between “haven’t”, “don’t”, “not usually”, and “can’t.”

The older I get, the less I believe in “can’t.”

Just because someone has not already or does not usually orgasm from PIV alone, does not necessarily mean that that can’t or that they won’t ever. 

Some people that have not or rarely orgasm via PIV may have just not had the right combination of conditions and parameters met yet.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

I think it is more likely that 75% of men cannot cause their partner to have PIV orgasms (either because of lack of equipment or lack of skill) than that 75% of women cannot have them at all. 100% of my partners have failed to achieve orgasm during intercourse. I think the causation has more to do with me than with them.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Your own experience only proves whatever your personal experience is. It does not prove anything about the 75% of women who have never had a PIV orgasm and who are not able to have them.
> 
> It’s wrong to put pressure on women who cannot achieve PIV orgasms. Basically, what you are doing is saying that there is something wrong with them if they are unable to do so. Or there is something wrong with their partner.


Rather than saying 75% of women cannot orgasm through penis in vagina sexual stimulation, it would be more reasonable to assert that circa 75% don't or haven't orgasmed via penis in vagina stimulation.

As to the value judgement that this is something wrong, I think given that it is a common experience it isn't wrong it is simply how it is. Not all of us are actually equal in our capabilities, talents or physiology. I don't think it is wrong that all of us are not identical clones of each other with identical capacities and capabilities. So given the absence of a level playing field it is hardly a surprise to see different experiences.

Of which I think it is more likely that men play a far more significant role in the lack of orgasm for women, than women do in this instance.

I also don't think it helps women to think that it can't ever happen for them, since that would have far more input into women settling for less. Likewise accepting that most women can't ever orgasm that way, doesn't necessarily diminish any feelings in some, that they may be broken, given that there are women who do orgasm that way.

For what it's worth for a time my wife believed she could not orgasm via penetrative sex and had even started to believe she was somehow broken and couldn't orgasm via any means through any form of oral, phallic and or digital stimulation during shared sex at all. So she certainly felt she was amongst the 75%, until she experienced otherwise.

Yet it turns out given the right partner, my wife orgasms quite easily and very frequently from standalone penis in vagina sex. Or penis in vagina sex with kissing, and or breast stimulation, or anal stimulation. She also easily orgasms via standalone oral sex. Or oral sex with digital vaginal and or anal stimulation. Plus she also can orgasm easily from standalone digital stimulation of her clitoris, or vagina. Likewise on very limited occasion she has orgasmed via penis in anus sex without additional stimulation (since the ends of the clitoris reach down a long way on either side).

One thing of note though, she hates motorised stimulation via a vibrator from low RPM through to high, and except in the rarest of instances she doesn't ever orgasm through it. Instead finding such aids numbing and with prolonged use painful as well. To the point that the last time, she used such things was over a decade ago.

One of my former long term sexual relationship partners, for a time used to be a sex worker in Japan. Now I didn't know that about her when I first asked her out on a date, yet she shared that with me early on. Now we talked about her experiences and mine as well, since we both shared having considerable and varied sexual experiences.

Of which she noted that of the many men who she had sex with (inclusive of clients and non-clients), almost all of them through a dearth of technique, lack of responsiveness and sensitivity, plus in some instances inadequate appendage as well, could not bring her to an orgasm via penetrative sex and often even oral sex as well. Yet with a very limited few (and that even included some clients) she could orgasm via penetrative sex quite easily, without any additional aids at all because the way they did it mattered. On and on etc.

I have been with several sexual partners who experienced penis in vagina orgasms for the first time ever, when I was having sex with them. Including a small number of women, who were married to someone else at the time. Of which having an orgasm like that was an exciting revelation to them, since they expressed that they never thought it possible or it wouldn't happen to them.

I accept that circa 75% may not have had or may never have a penis in vagina orgasm, yet I think it stretches credulity to believe that it isn't ever possible with that number of women at all.

One of the problems is lots of guys don't know how to tell if a woman is building up to an orgasm and many don't even know how to tell if a woman is having an orgasm with any certainty. So with that being the case the 75% number isn't a surprise, yet the cannot idea is extremely likely to be a red herring.

Since a woman can moan, groan, scream, clench, hold tighter, heave, get flush, eyes dilate, gush, squirt/pee, get incredibly wet and self cream and a few other things besides. Yet none of those before mentioned things are always coincident to an orgasm. Yet one thing for sure in terms of orgasm, the way a woman feels in the rectum and at the anus and with lesser amplitude inside the vagina is always consistent with an actual orgasm. Which is why it's so easy for a woman to fake it, unless she is with a partner who knows how to really tell.

One thing that I am sure of, if more men knew what a woman's orgasm felt like during sex inside her vagina and rectum. Plus more especially in the build up to it or the moving away from (losing) the climax before it happens. And were more responsive and able to adjust what they were doing accordingly, more women would certainly experience penetrative orgasms.

Likewise If circa 75% of women cannot ever have a penis in vagina orgasm. It would be an extraordinary thing, that of all of the women that I have had sex with more than once and a few (not all) that I shared sex with on only one occasion, were all amongst the 25% that did and can orgasm through penis in vagina sex. Yet my experience wouldn't be extraordinary at all (and I don't think it is), if the assertion was that most of the 75% of women who haven't orgasmed via penetrative sex, may orgasm given the right stimulation and conditions. In other words perhaps most women really aren't broken at all.

Now of course you may dismiss what I am sharing, yet given people like @StarFires and lots of others, it really isn't unreasonable to believe that women who have a clitoris (which is a large sexual organ) are able to orgasm given the right stimulation which can include penetrative sex as well.

Make no mistake @StarFires is trying to help women, not hurt them.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Personal said:


> Rather than saying 75% of women cannot orgasm through penis in vagina sexual stimulation, it would be more reasonable to assert that circa 75% don't or haven't orgasmed via penis in vagina stimulation.
> 
> As to the value judgement that this is something wrong, I think given that it is a common experience it isn't wrong it is simply how it is. Not all of us are actually equal in our capabilities, talents or physiology. I don't think it is wrong that all of us are not identical clones of each other with identical capacities and capabilities. So given the absence of a level playing field it is hardly a surprise to see different experiences.
> 
> ...


QFT.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

since the title of this thread is "Women & Orgasms" lets throw this out to muddy the waters a little further - some (many?) women don't need genital stimulation at all to orgasm. 

I have been with a few women who were right on the edge but couldn't quite go over edge by having their toes sucked. 

I have been with numerous women who could orgasm by having their nipples sucked. 

I have been with a couple women who could orgasm by having their breasts massaged and nipples tweeked manually. 

I have been with a several women, my wife included, that can orgasm by doing it between the boobs (ie ti++y f---ing) 

Some of my wife's strongest orgasms have been via anal intercourse with no additional genital stimulation. 

I have been with one woman who just loved having her boobs shaken/jiggled vigorously and would have consistent, satisfying orgasms. 

I have been with one woman who had an orgasm while making out dry humping fully clothed ( and lots of others who probably could have/would have but the clothes came flying off and we got down for real LOL ) 

I have been with a couple women that have orgasmed from analingus without any genital stimulation. 

I have even hand one woman have orgasms while GIVING ME a combination HJ/BJ and was not receiving any additional stimulation at all. I would've been willing to think it was a fluke or that we both imagined it, but as time went on she did it a number of other times. 

And while I have not experienced this first hand myself, there are plenty of reports of women orgasming from having their neck/ear lobes nibbled, toes sucked, feet tickled, ribs tickled and also reports of women having orgasms reading erotica, watching porn and even their own erotic imagery in their own imagination/thoughts without any physical stimulation at all. 

so I am always a bit leery when someone says that they "can't" orgasm and especially if some dude is saying his partner 'can't' orgasm. If women can orgasm by thinking sexy thoughts in their minds or having their ear lobes nibbled or toes sucked, what is he doing/not doing that she isn't orgasming at all?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Holdingontoit said:


> I think it is more likely that 75% of men cannot cause their partner to have PIV orgasms (either because of lack of equipment or lack of skill) than that 75% of women cannot have them at all. 100% of my partners have failed to achieve orgasm during intercourse. I think the causation has more to do with me than with them.


I am just throwing this out there as FWIW. 

I have just an ordinary, average penis. It works fine but there is nothing out of the ordinary one way or another about it. ..... it is just a penis. 

But for a man, I have pretty small chick-hands and pretty dainty looking fingers. My index finger is a fraction of the size of my junk and is maybe a little over 3" long and roughly the diameter of thicker ball point pen. 

I really like fingering and have probably brought around a hundred or more women to orgasm with my index finger alone, including a number of women who claim to not have vaginal/PIV orgasms. 

Now to be fair, when I am with someone, I am not doing medical research in controlled clinical environments. I am getting down and having fun and giving and receiving pleasure and excitement and I am not trying to determine what will and what will not make someone orgasm. If someone orgasms by standing in a bucket of ice water with their hands tied over their head blindfolded while someone in killer clown custom rubs Dijon mustard on their boobs, I'm bringing my clown custom, bucket and mustard and not asking questions. so I can't give an accurate statistical analysis of who exactly did and who did not orgasm via PIV alone, because if someone wants to finger or vibrator their clit while someone tickles their ass with a feather while we are f---ing, I will roll with that. 

But my point to all of this is if I can very consistently and predictably bring the majority of the women I have been with to orgasm with a finger that is the fraction of the size of my johnson, then I believe the vast majority of the this vaginal/PIV orgasm thing is technique driven. 

When I have PIV, I do not just stick it in and pump it up and down. Usually by the time I have PIV with someone, I have basically explored every square millimeter of their jay-jay with my fingers and have found where their nerve bundles (if you want to call them A-Z spots go ahead) and their erectile tissues etc are and I try to use my penis to stimulate those areas like I did with my finger. 

I don't have a big horse ****. I'm not going to make a living in porn. So I have basically learned to use my penis as a technique-driven tool to provide stimulation to specific areas rather than just sticking it in and pile driving.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> But my point to all of this is if I can very consistently and predictably bring the majority of the women I have been with to orgasm with a finger that is the fraction of the size of my johnson, then I believe the vast majority of the this vaginal/PIV orgasm thing is technique driven.
> 
> I have basically learned to use my penis as a technique-driven tool to provide stimulation to specific areas rather than just sticking it in and pile driving.


So given my two posts above, my perspective on this whole debate of who has PIV orgasms vs who doesn't is I believe any physiologically and psychologically and emotionally intact woman who does not have any nerve damage or hormonal imbalance or any medical problems in that area and who does not have some kind of emotional/psychological issue going on who is with a partner that she is attracted to and comfortable with who has a working penis that is not an actual medically classified micro penis nor who is so large as to cause discomfort "CAN" orgasm from PIV if comfortable and aroused, properly stimulated and a wide variety of stars are lined up and the right buttons and switches are activated. 

*HOWEVER -* if someone has satisfying orgasms and good love making when they're doing it while getting their toes sucked using a bullet on their clit and getting their ass tickled with a feather and everyone comes away with a smile, then why all the fuss and debate?????? 

I don't think any of us are going to arrive at the pearly gates and get a poor report card and have to explain why we or our partner did not have orgasms from PIV alone. 

The issue here lies not in whether someone is orgasming from PIV but whether someone is having fun, pleasurable, satisfying love making with their partner or not. 

If the answer is yes, then keep on truck'n and enjoy. 

But If the answer is no, then there needs to be some open, heart-felt discussion and some exploration and experimentation and perhaps even some education and possibly therapy to find out what is causing the problems and to find what the things that do work are.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

I hope everyone is not actually getting mad about this.

One thing is for sure, the total amount of actual, meaningful, research on the subject, while on one level may look like a lot, it really is not...

If you figure that most of use were conceived naturally, and that most of the people in the world have had sex and a large portion of them like sex...

You would think that there would be a collection of research larger that 1000 Smithsonian museums on the subject.

I don't know if what the stats say is true or not, but his is my anecdotal experience...

Some women seem to be only clitoral, some seem to be Clit and OIV/G-spot, and some seem to be those 2 or 3 depending on how you are looking at it plus anal.

Now unlike @oldshirt I have HUGE hands and fingers... I am not really that big of a guy physically, 6' 1 1/2" to 6'2" so I think it is kind of weird in a way. My junk is a little above average and a little thicker than average. Not a huge Johnson at all, but I like it!!!

Anyway, my exp says that lots of women, above 60% can have a vaginal O, and about that many can have multiple.

However, I have known women that are only clit girls and they apparently only have O's that way.

Now, here is where it gets difficult for me. My Fiance, is a G-spot PIV girl. I am not saying that she could not have a clitoral O, but I am saying that for her it takes too long and she would rather have 2 or 3 O's in the time it takes for her to have one clit O, if she could make it there.

Now oddly enough, with me Fiance can have what she calls "Multiple, effortless O's" and that is different for her.

So I think all women are different and complex, the partner matters in lots of cases, and a hundred other variables...

For me, I just try and keep lots of different tools in the tool box and pull out the right one when it is needed.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Holdingontoit said:


> I think it is more likely that 75% of men cannot cause their partner to have PIV orgasms (either because of lack of equipment or lack of skill) than that 75% of women cannot have them at all. 100% of my partners have failed to achieve orgasm during intercourse. I think the causation has more to do with me than with them.


There are already tons of foolish men out there who have gotten their sex "*education*" from PornHub and think all they need to do to please a woman is jump on top of her with little to no foreplay and pound away on her - and the result will be an earth-shattering orgasm for her. 

And because this magical Porn-Hub result hasn't happened for you in real life, you think it's because *you're *not doing it right or you're not built right? 🥺 I'm willing to bet this happens way more than not - and it's not due to your shortcomings (no pun intended). I'm with Ele and think the number of women who can successfuly orgasm from PIV is relatively low..

Don't be a clueless Porn-Hub guy. I'm thinking you wrote this post in jest, however.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BluesPower said:


> My Fiance, is a G-spot PIV girl. I am not saying that she could not have a clitoral O, but I am saying that for her it takes too long and she would rather have 2 or 3 O's in the time it takes for her to have one clit O, if she could make it there.


I think this is one of the biggest factors in all of this. Just because someone ‘can’ orgasm a particular way, doesn’t mean they actually want to.

Nor does it mean that they wouldn’t prefer other methods the vast majority of the time. 

One of my wife’s quirks is some of the best orgasms she’s over had and one of the things she says is the most intensely pleasurable for her is anal sex. 

However she very very very rarely ever wants to actually do it. In our 25+ years together, I doubt if we have done it much more than a dozen or so times. 2 dozen tops. 

When the stars line up, she loves it; but Haley’s Comet almost around more often than her wanting to do that. 

Oral?? For many women that is their most tried and true method of orgasm, but my wife rarely cums from it and really couldn’t care less if she ever has it again. 

Anyway getting back on topic, my point just because some can, doesn’t mean they actually like to very often and may usually prefer other things.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BluesPower said:


> One thing is for sure, the total amount of actual, meaningful, research on the subject, while on one level may look like a lot, it really is not...
> 
> If you figure that most of use were conceived naturally, and that most of the people in the world have had sex and a large portion of them like sex...
> 
> You would think that there would be a collection of research larger that 1000 Smithsonian museums on the subject.


The topic of meaningful, scientific sexual “research” (and I use the term loosely) has been woefully lacking for much of history.

Historically much of anatomical research and documentation has been via cadaver research and dissection. 

Much of other medical anatomy and physiology reference has been from the medical and gynecological communities. 

There are some big caveats with this. 

The first is embalmed 80 year old dead chicks being dissected probably don’t have the same vaginal properties as a fertile women in a state of heavy arousal.

And the medical/gynecological communities are more concerned with pathology and correcting disease states than they are in exactly how a normal, healthy woman orgasms. 

I am willing to bet that it has only been in the last several where we have perfusion scanning capabilities that can look at blood flow at the tissue level and computer enhanced imagery that we are getting a look at some of the actual physiological changes and processes at all. 

We have probably learned more about the size, shape and physiologic functioning of the clitoris in the last decade or so, than in the hundred or more years prior. We simply didn’t have the technology to scan it and measure it. 

And another factor is simply the professional ethics of doing scientific physiological research on test volunteers in a controlled, monitored, clinical setting. 

While I am sure college dudes would line up outside the laboratory door to be test subjects, how many women are going to consent to being hooked up to various monitors and scanners and have electrodes stuck up their jay-jays and have some other research volunteer walk up and stick it in her without any other clitoral stimulation to isolate whether she is truly having a strictly PIV orgasm or not? All while being watched and documented by a bunch of middle age nerdy professors. 

Almost all of what we have to go on is self reported and anecdotal to one degree or another.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

gr8ful1 said:


> You and oldshirt quoted that same stat, and I’ve believed it for many years, since it’s so often repeated. Then StarFires above said point—blank “that’s not true”, with the implied meaning, since my wife has only had a PIV orgasm a few times in our 25+ yr relationship, that I must suck as a lover. Thanks for screwing up my head lol


'I would say ignore what they said. Unless they have asked many thousands of women who were all completely honest, they cant possible know that the 75% is wrong. Plus, I think its odd that an orgasm via penetration is for whatever reason seen as somehow 'better' or 'superior' than those from other means. I have no idea why and I dont agree with it.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> '. Plus, I think its odd that an orgasm via penetration is for whatever reason seen as somehow 'better' or 'superior' than those from other means. I have no idea why and I dont agree with it.


That goes all the way back to Sigmond Freud when he wrote that clitoral orgasms were immature and what inexperienced little girls did when they were beginning to explore their genitalia, but that mature, developed women would have “legitimate” orgasms via PIV.

Generations of men then took that and ran with it because PIV basically always works to give them orgasms so therefor they shouldn’t be expected to put in any extra effort.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> 'I would say ignore what they said. Unless they have asked many thousands of women who were all completely honest, they cant possible know that the 75% is wrong. Plus, I think its odd that an orgasm via penetration is for whatever reason seen as somehow 'better' or 'superior' than those from other means. I have no idea why and I dont agree with it.


I kind of agree with this. I don't want to discount the studies, and I am sure that they are trying to get good data and test procedures. 

But I have know lots of women that liked and O with PIV and for sure through G-spot manipulation. And there are lots and lots, if not most, that O thought clitoral manipulation of various types. 

But while I have not been with every woman in the world it seems that the 75% can't O through PIV is really low for me. 

I have just been with lots that could. Also, this does change from younger to older women, not only in style but ability to O. 

I believe a woman in her 50's and 60's can O easier that younger women. Now this is just a guess based on my own research. 

I think some of the reason is that at 50 or 55 or later, what do you have to really be uptight and in your head about. The kids are grown, it is you and your partner, you are not going to get pregnant, you may be retired, and on and on. 

My Fiancé thinks I am the one that makes her feel open and free about sex. And I let her think that, cause hey, good for me. But I think I am only one part about that. 

She actually told me that one of her husbands did not like her dancing or wearing sexy cloths... And she tests me about this all of the time, and I take advantage of that and enjoy that, and she loves it because there is not much that I don't like and don't like seeing. You know, shake that money maker baby...


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Not being a woman, I can't disagree, or agree even.

I can say that I really like bbq and I really like pecan pie, both hit the spot and are really really good.

But they're different. Probably a bad analogy.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> There are already tons of foolish men out there who have gotten their sex "*education*" from PornHub and think all they need to do to please a woman is jump on top of her with little to no foreplay and pound away on her - and the result will be an earth-shattering orgasm for her.
> 
> Don't be a clueless Porn-Hub guy.


Learning to have sex from porn is like learning self defense from professional wrestling or learning to shoot a gun from John Wick movies or learning to remodel a home from watching anything on HGTV (in fact I call it house porn when my wife watches it and wants me to add a pool house addition on my weekend off LOL )


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> Learning to have sex from porn is like learning self defense from professional wrestling or learning to shoot a gun from John Wick movies or learning to remodel a home from watching anything on HGTV (in fact I call it house porn when my wife watches it and wants me to add a pool house addition on my weekend off LOL )


Yeah, most women are as clueless about DIY, as some men are about sex.

My Fiancé was trying to decorate the new Bath while I was still painting it...


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> If someone orgasms by standing in a bucket of ice water with their hands tied over their head blindfolded while someone in killer clown custom rubs Dijon mustard on their boobs, I'm bringing my clown custom, bucket and mustard and not asking questions.


We must have met the same woman!


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

I think instead of some magical spot, it's a mental thing. Example I have heard stories from a woman who was unable to orgasm with Husband their whole marriage but apparently her AP stuck his tip in and she started squealing like a stuck pig. He wasn't any bigger than her husband or doing anything better, but the circumstances was vastly different. One was boring marriage sex and the other was taboo adulterous sex with a semi stranger with that extra thrill of the possibly of getting caught. Maybe he even had a bad boy image.

Why do you think romance novels fly off the shelf and are referred to as women porn? The mind is that magical spot for women IMO. And sometimes depending on the woman you don't fit the drop your panties archetype for her.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I think instead of some magical spot, it's a mental thing. Example I have heard stories from a woman who was unable to orgasm with Husband their whole marriage but apparently her AP stuck his tip in and she started squealing like a stuck pig. He wasn't any bigger than her husband or doing anything better, but the circumstances was vastly different. One was boring marriage sex and the other was taboo adulterous sex with a semi stranger with that extra thrill of the possibly of getting caught. Maybe he even had a bad boy image.


Here is the thing that LOTS OF GUYS DONT UNDERSTAND...

I venture to say that Most women are at least a little submissive, not all by any means but most. And Society, hopefully this is changing, kind of shames women that have too much experience, or are too sexual. Now, I personally don't feel that way, but some women do feel this way. 

Now, come to fine out, over time, women esp grown ass women, don't really have a lot of interests in a man that does not know what he is doing in the sack. 

They are not always secure themselves, and they want the man to take charge, make them feel comfortable, beautiful, and sexy and take care of business... 

This may not be fair but lot and lots of time, this is what they seem to want. 

My Fiancé is not super experienced, she is not a prude and she likes sex and she has been married a couple of times, but still not super experience. 

So after we got together for the first few months, she was just raving about how good the sex way, how did you learn this and how did you learn that, and who taught you this... Just non stop questions about sex. 

So I asked her, "what is the deal, don't most guys know what is going on, nothing I am doing is new, I did not invent this stuff, it is not new.... Well she told me that I don't understand that most guys did not know what was going on. 

Now, since is don't have sex with guys, I did not know this. So it seems to be a thing. 

Now here is the other side of this.... Then she started thinking, and her questions changed, to... "Exactly how many women have you been with"? and questions like that. 

I told her look I am not now not am I ever going to answer that question, I guess I have been with enough to know what I am doing, and you did not complain about that... 

So when you talk about a women in an affair, first no regular husband is going to be able to compete with that. And second, it really does not matter what the WW says about it, odds are she is lying. 

But yeah, it happens that a boring, inexperienced husband, gets his balls handed to him by his cheating wife and her new stud... Sucks but it happens...


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> Plus, I think its odd that an orgasm via penetration is for whatever reason seen as somehow 'better' or 'superior' than those from other means.


I don't think anyone in this discussion has claimed that such orgasms are superior.


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## Rooster2015 (Jun 12, 2015)

Funny I asked my wife the same thing earlier. She said they all feel the same. It’s that she prefers a PIV orgasm because of the connection with me.


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

I think the question might be: how many women can have a vaginal orgasm with a vibrator that is turned off?


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Rooster2015 said:


> Funny I asked my wife the same thing earlier. She said they all feel the same. It’s that she prefers a PIV orgasm because of the connection with me.


There's an element of simplicity to the PIV orgasm for the woman, because one act satisfies both parties. The "connection" issue gets a bit strange when the orgasm is experienced by one pretty much exclusively through oral and the other PIV. It becomes a dance in two parts, and if during one of those dances the person giving is less enthusiastic than their partner giving during the other dance... OK, that's awkward. So the guy offering oral to his wife may be extremely enthusiastic about it, and motivated by the desire for his wife to orgasm. Both parties are all-in. But if the same doesn't happen during PIV? And I suspect this may often be the case.

On the other hand, what do I know? Our sex therapist recommended my wife read "Come as you are" and for me, "She comes first." To tell you the honest truth, I haven't gotten too much out of "She comes first" other than A: some technical details and B: A feeling that some guys must be pretty clueless and don't really care that much about their partner's orgasm. I think the main thing I learned from "She comes first" is the importance of allocating enough time and basically an assumption that she will orgasm, an assumption that translates to confidence not just on the guy's part but especially hers.

But "She comes first" is quite clear, repeatedly so, that oral sex performed on your wife is not a lead in or related to PIV sex for the guy. It doesn't even tell you that, if you satisfy her, she's more likely to satisfy you. Perhaps that's it's most-important lesson. If you approach oral sex as a lead-in to PIV, that may take something, or perhaps everything, away from the generosity of the act.


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