# What to do?



## Ray83 (Sep 28, 2015)

Thank you all for your past advice, here's another question. A couple days ago my wife told me there are times she purposely stays up late to make sure I'm asleep when she gets to bed so we don't have to have sex. At the same time she said there are times she wishes I would just do it myself. This is maybe a week after she said even if she isn't really interested we can have a quickie because she knows I like it. So now she says sometimes she's too tired for sex but will stay up till midnight to make sure I'm sleeping. Is it just me or does this sound like something more than just not wanting sex?? She sometimes works late but has assured me there is nothing else going on but after hearing the above statement I don't know what to think.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Ray83 said:


> Thank you all for your past advice, here's another question. A couple days ago my wife told me there are times she purposely stays up late to make sure I'm asleep when she gets to bed so we don't have to have sex. At the same time she said there are times she wishes I would just do it myself. This is maybe a week after she said even if she isn't really interested we can have a quickie because she knows I like it. *So now she says sometimes she's too tired for sex but will stay up till midnight to make sure I'm sleeping.* Is it just me or does this sound like something more than just not wanting sex?? She sometimes works late but has assured me there is nothing else going on but after hearing the above statement I don't know what to think.


*That *doesn't make any sense. How can she be "too tired" for sex but then stay up late?

So yes, I would definitely be concerned.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

technovelist said:


> *That *doesn't make any sense. *How can she be "too tired" for sex but then stay up late?*
> 
> So yes, I would definitely be concerned.


Because sex takes a lot more physical energy than just laying around watching TV, etc. She may physically be too tired.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

SecondTime'Round said:


> Because sex takes a lot more physical energy than just laying around watching TV, etc. She may physically be too tired.


This reminds me of the joke about when a lawyer asks a witness if she is sexually active, and she says "No, I just lie there.".

I don't know about the OP, but a lot of men would be fine with that, at least on occasion. How much physical energy does that take?


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## Ray83 (Sep 28, 2015)

That's usually what's going on. Nothing wild and crazy. Usually she puts more effort into cleaning up than the actual sex.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
does she seem to enjoy sex when you do have it? Has she given any indication of sexual things she would enjoy more?


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

technovelist said:


> This reminds me of the joke about when a lawyer asks a witness if she is sexually active, and she says "No, I just lie there.".
> 
> I don't know about the OP, but a lot of men would be fine with that, at least on occasion. How much physical energy does that take?


You have to be turned on enough so it's not painful at least, have some build up before it starts then there is mess after and you gotta get back up and clean yourself off. 

Just laying there would make me feel so used and disgusting so I wouldn't want to do it even if I had the energy to.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

It sounds like she no longer loves you enough to care about your needs. She's staying for her own convenience - if she can avoid having sex or other intimacy with you. In short, she's using you.

My advice: file for divorce. That will either shock her into appreciating what she may be about to lose, or she'll be happy to be free of you. Either way, you win, because she'll either begin to make an effort to engage with you and meet at least some of your needs, or you'll be free to find real love elsewhere.


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## Ray83 (Sep 28, 2015)

Slowly going crazy, she isn't much into foreplay, I offer believe me!!! Even if we start out slow with kissing and cuddling and I ask her what's she thinking or what she wants to do she often says " sorry I was thinking about work etc etc". It's interesting that you mentioned you would feel used because I told her I feel like I'm using her and that's not what I want. I would do anything for her, if she wanted. That's when she told me we could just have quickies because she knows its important to me. I asked him once how often she wanted sex and she told me maybe twice a month. I don't want to beg her for it, I don't want to use her because I do love her, and I really don't want to do it myself.......


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Sex is a battle ground. You want it and she is conflicted about it. She probably doesn't know why she doesn't want sex but she does know that you want it and that means she is supposed to give it. So she employs tricks and slight of hand to avoid the battle. In her mind she gives in and you win, or she avoids and she wins. 

Start with just accepting the fact that she doesn't want sex like you do. 
Try to come to an agree to with her about how often she will give sex.
Agree on how to deal with days when she needs to take a pass she also agrees to a rain check for the next day.

Have discussions about sex with her. Describe for her how you feel not only super close to her when you have sex but you also feel loved by her. Ask her the ways in which she feels loved and cherished by you. Ask her if she feels loved and cherished enough.

Also, discover the mechanisms of turning her on and getting her aroused. Understand that she probably doesn't want sex because she isn't aroused and only after she becomes aroused does she actually want sex. This would the equivalent of a man only wanting sex when he already had half an erection. You have to find ways to get her aroused before dinner time and keep her aroused until bed time. Whether through affection, long full body hugs, grabbing her from behind and kissing her neck just below her ear as you whisper loving or naughty things in her ear... You have help her understand how her body works. That it's okay if she doesn't want sex because she's not aroused, but to trust that you will get her aroused if that's what she wants. And if she doesn't want that then it's okay for you to have consensual sex with her even if she doesn't have the time or energy to become aroused.

Google "responsive desire in women."


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

technovelist said:


> This reminds me of the joke about when a lawyer asks a witness if she is sexually active, and she says "No, I just lie there.".
> 
> I don't know about the OP, but a lot of men would be fine with that, at least on occasion. How much physical energy does that take?


 @technovelist... Are you advocating the dreaded "starfish sex"??

:lol:


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> Google "responsive desire in women."


I agree that the problem often is responsive desire.

But, in order for this knowledge to do any good, the woman needs to have a desire to work with it.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> Sex is a battle ground. You want it and she is conflicted about it. She probably doesn't know why she doesn't want sex but she does know that you want it and that means she is supposed to give it. So she employs tricks and slight of hand to avoid the battle. In her mind she gives in and you win, or she avoids and she wins.
> 
> Start with just accepting the fact that she doesn't want sex like you do.
> Try to come to an agree to with her about how often she will give sex.
> ...


I would add to this what I call "late responsive desire."
Sometimes my wife cannot be aroused "before" sex no matter what I do. Maybe I've been acting like a jerk, or shiit is just going wrong. However, if I keep at it, she can become VERY aroused during the act. Just this past weekend after an arduous trip for Thanksgiving, she agreed to sex, but was just not into it.(at first) However, she allowed me to work her up. It took a backrub, porn, PIV, fingers, vibrator, tongue, lot's of lube, etc. etc. In the end, she got fired up and had a BIG one.

In the past I would get depressed when I saw this in my wife. Now I think of it as a challenge and press on. My view is "all is well that ends well."

For my wife, I think it's like climbing a mountain. You sit at the base, look up and say, "no way am I gunna make it to the top today." I just grab her hand and slowly methodically take baby steps to the top.

I am the conductor and the guy that loads coal. My wife is the train.
The train ain't goin nowhere without some work on getting that fire burning red hot. Once it's hot, it stays hot and won't stop till we get to where we're going. That's MY job.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I took a peek at your past threads, hows it going with the getting the weight off? Do you think that is still an issue for her? 

I would skip the asking what she's thinking and stuff like that. She may not like it, I know I do not. 

Is there a way you could get her in the mood before you get to the bedroom? Lay with her on the couch rubbing her thigh, kissing her in the kitchen while you guys are making dinner. Foreplay isn't just what happens in bed right before. 
If you're starting in bed with her at a 0 it might just be too hard for her to get into it.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I took a peek at your past threads, hows it going with the getting the weight off? Do you think that is still an issue for her?
> 
> *I would skip the asking what she's thinking and stuff like that. She may not like it, I know I do not. *
> 
> ...


I agree. That's just annoying.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Is there a way you could get her in the mood before you get to the bedroom? Lay with her on the couch rubbing her thigh, kissing her in the kitchen while you guys are making dinner. Foreplay isn't just what happens in bed right before.
> If you're starting in bed with her at a 0 it might just be too hard for her to get into it.


But.... I think a problem with all of this "..start getting her in the mood earlier in the day.." stuff is that, if she is looking to avoid sex, these things will be seen as preludes to sex. Soon, she won't want the husband to do these things because she know what it's likely to lead to.


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## Ray83 (Sep 28, 2015)

Ok, point taken on not asking what she's thinking, thanks! The weight is a battle but its getting better. I've been working out for about a month and focusing on eating better. As far as foreplay beginning before the bedroom I agree, here's what I've found. Very rarely does she like to sit and cuddle on the couch, too much to do she says. I've been trying to help her with household stuff, not that I think it's her responsibility, but I've been trying to do more. In the last month or so she's cooked twice, she pointed that out to me, I've been trying to help more with laundry and dishes, etc etc, but she always says there's too much to do and she just can't relax. I've tried doing everything she's asked in order for her to feel more at peace when she comes home.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> @technovelist... Are you advocating the dreaded "starfish sex"??
> 
> :lol:


I'm not advocating it, obviously.

But it is still a counter to the notion that someone can be "too tired for sex" and yet stay up later than usual to avoid sex.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

technovelist said:


> I'm not advocating it, obviously.
> 
> But it is still a counter to the notion that someone can be "too tired for sex" and yet stay up later than usual to avoid sex.


:iagree:


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## NoSizeQueen (Sep 9, 2015)

If she says she's too tired, but she's staying up late to avoid you, then the question you should really be asking is...

Why does she not feel comfortable just telling you no? What dynamic in your relationship makes her feel like it's better to avoid you, than to be honest with you?


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Ray83 said:


> A couple days ago *my wife told me* there are times she purposely stays up late to make sure I'm asleep when she gets to bed so we don't have to have sex.



Consider yourself very lucky!!!!!!!

The fact that your wife told you this at least give you a chance to discuss the topic between the two of you. In my opinion most wives would never share information this directly with their husband on tactics they use to avoid sex. 

WHY she did it is obviously something to work out, but the fact she was willing to talk to you about it is likely almost unheard of with other couples in similar situations. So what ever you do, be sure to react positively about her opening up so that you can have a fighting chance to find a compromise to your problems. 

Communication and trust are paramount in any relationship, and the fact she told you this is a sign you have a good foundation. 

Now getting as to "why" she avoids sex... May not be your case, but in most relationships men judge the quality of sex based on the strength of the female's orgasm. When it does not happen, behaviors in lovemaking drastically change to for the male to try and force the female to orgasm. DO NOT DO THIS!!!! For women lovemaking is about an emotional connection and knowing that they are desired by their husbands, sometimes that comes with an orgasm for her and sometimes it does not. Instead of asking how her orgasm was, afterwards simply tell her about what you adore the most about her while making love...

Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Responsive desire. Key word, responsive. If she's not responsive she doesn't have responsive desire. This looks more like an aversion than rd.


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## Ray83 (Sep 28, 2015)

Badsanta, thank you for your thoughts!! I'll be sure to talk to her about it in a positive way. As far as her orgasms, she rarely has them from piv alone. She prefers orgasms after sex so whenever she wants one I'm more than happy to lend a hand. We've come to the understanding that when she wants one she'll let me know, otherwise I don't bring it up or push it.


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## NoSizeQueen (Sep 9, 2015)

What is your usual reaction when she says she's too tired? Is it likely to lead to a discussion/argument?

I sometimes used the avoidance tactic when I really was too tired, because staying up took less energy than consoling my angry and pouty husband after I said no.


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## Ray83 (Sep 28, 2015)

I try very hard not to argue over sex. We have discussions about it, that seems to be more productive. As far as pouting about not getting any I try to avoid that too. Not saying it hasn't happened, but I try to be more conscious of my reactions.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Ray83 said:


> I try very hard not to argue over sex. We have discussions about it, that seems to be more productive. As far as pouting about not getting any I try to avoid that too. Not saying it hasn't happened, but I try to be more conscious of my reactions.


Since you mentioned she would sometimes want you to do yourself, that can actually be a very positive thing in a relationship. You could request that she verbally tease you a bit when she is not in the mood and for her to enjoy being playful about it. She could say something like, "sorry honey you are just going to have to dream about my sweet ***** tonight!" while she shoves her boobs in your face and then goes about her evening. 

Make sure she does not feel threatened about why and how you masturbate, and if possible encourage her to participate by getting you some lotion and letting your borrow a pair of silky underwear or stockings that you will just have to imagine and wait for when she will actually wear for them you on a special occasion. ...my point being is that she will know you will be thinking about her, and this will give her confidence to enhance your self exploration in the relationship. Then eventually desire will continue to build and by the time that no amount of masturbation will help substitute for the real thing, lovemaking will be explosive for the both of you! 

In another universe somewhere completely inappropriate on the internet there is this really bizarre story I am reading about a couple. One thing I find really odd is that she seems to really enjoy talking dirty to her husband and watching the results of his self-service. This occurs when she is particularly NOT in the mood for sex, but yet she still REALLY enjoys teasing the crap out of him.

Anyway... These seem like some very positive opportunities you might have. All us guys enjoy being teased by our wives, so think of it as an opportunity for that as opposed to pouting or fussing!

Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## Spitfire (Jun 6, 2015)

There's a good chance your wife just isn't "into" you anymore. My wife is always "tired" too only she goes to bed way before me usually around 8:30pm or so. She lays in bed surfing the Internet on her phone until she hears me turn off the tv around 11:00pm then pretends to be sleeping. I'm at the point now that I never initiate sex. If she wants it she'll have to initiate it. About once per month is how often she wants it. Your wife could be a similar combination of "Low Drive" and "Not that into me". You can jump through all kinds of hoops trying to fix things if you want but she probably won't change in the long run.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

OH my. Where to start. 



Ray83 said:


> ....my wife told me there are times she purposely *stays up late to make sure I'm asleep when she gets to bed so we don't have to have sex.* At the same time she said there are times she wishes I would just do it myself. This is maybe a week after she said *even if she isn't really interested we can have a quickie because she knows I like it*. So now she says sometimes she's too tired for sex but will stay up till midnight to make sure I'm sleeping. Is it just me or does this sound* like something more than just not wanting sex?*? She sometimes works late but has assured me there is nothing else going on but after hearing the above statement I don't know what to think.



First, my having been in a sex starved marriage, I totally understand what your wife told you. My take and what I use to do, when I desperately wanted sex, was to stay up late watching TV to the point that when my head hit the pillow, I went right to sleep. The reason I would do that was because I so desperately wanted sex and to lay there next to the woman I loved and not initiate was torture. On the other hand, had I initiated sex, I KNEW that she would emotionally hurt me to the point that I would be in tears. 

My solution, which for me was the lesser of all evils, was exhaustion to curb my sex drive and minimize any emotional hurt. What she is saying makes sense. Thank her for being honest with you. You now have some information you can work with.

As to if you need it, she is telling you, you can have a quickie because she loves you. Well, consider that also positive. She doesn't want to have sex with you, she doesn't want to go to all the trouble that in HER MIND mutual foreplay involves (you need to figure out why), but she is still understands that as you are her husband you have needs and she wants to try to meet them to a point. What a wonderful wife.

Does she not want sex? Yes and No. She may be truly low desire (LD), reactive, asexual, or just not turned on by you. .....Or she may just not want some kind of emotional pain or guilt that you regularly inflict on her. 

Let's look at that last one and ask you to do some introspection. One of the things I noticed about myself when I was in my SSM, was that after about a month, I didn't need sex with my wife and if we had sex, I felt close to her again and it was like being addicted to her after kicking the habit. After sex do you get emotionally close to your wife and ether smother her or be too clingy to the point that she regrets having sex with you? Look at one of your later comments about pouting and do some introspection.



Ray83 said:


> That's usually what's going on. Nothing wild and crazy. *Usually she puts more effort into cleaning up than the actual sex.*


Sounds a bit like duty sex to me and that she at least recognizes your needs. Again, that is a start, not a good place to be, but a start.



Ray83 said:


> Slowly going crazy, *she isn't much into foreplay, I offer believe me!!! Even if we start out slow with kissing and cuddling and I ask her what's she thinking or what she wants to do she often says " sorry I was thinking about work etc etc". *It's interesting that you mentioned you would feel used because I told her I feel like I'm using her and that's not what I want. I would do anything for her, if she wanted. *That's when she told me we could just have quickies because she knows its important to me. * I asked him once how often she wanted sex and *she told me maybe twice a month*. I *don't want to beg her for it, I don't want to use her *because I do love her, and I really don't want to do it myself.......


Some of the things that I learned about my wife in our SSM were that she really did have a lower desire than I did. She really only "wanted" sex maybe once a week to once every two weeks. 

My wife has a hard time getting to orgasm. It helps if she is really, really horny. What I have learned in over 44+ years of marriage is that for my wife to orgasm, she needs to be relatively rested, her mind needs to go totally blank or she needs to be incredibly horny from not having sex in a long time. She can't be worried about remembering details about work, home, or social situations, She also needs to be physically relaxed and feeling loved.

If my wife is tired or as in the case of this past week worried about not forgetting some detail on cooking or shopping for Thanksgiving dinner, then she will not be able to orgasm. Some days, by talking to her and knowing what is on her mind, I know that there is nothing I can do to bring her to orgasm and there she is just not going to be in the mood. 

Other days, there are things I can do. They include foot rubs and back massages, while she closes her eyes and clears her mind. Then with sufficient foreplay, lube and lots and lots of nipple stimulation she can achieve toe curling orgasms, more frequent than she really would want to initiate on her own, but enjoyable to her. We have certain rituals we do to help her relax prior to sex when my wife is rested enough and not too stressed out.

I have actually heart her during our SSM, ask me to not touch her "there" as it will make her want to have sex with me. Wrap your head around that. It is something she enjoys when stimulated properly, but sex is something she still would rather not do that frequently even if she knows she would like it. That is what low desire means and looks like, up close and personal.

When she tells you she wants sex less frequent, you need to believe her. The good news is she knows you want and need it more frequently and she is willing to compromise! That is about the best possible starting point.

Now to the really interesting part of you statement. Do you understand what performance anxiety is? Your need for her to orgasm, your need for her to be sexually very active with you, can put so much pressure on her, that it literally kills her libido. You can read all about how many men get performance anxiety and fear of not being able to keep an erection, well for women, performance anxiety can be so much stress and the fear that they won't orgasm sufficiently to please their lover. There are lots of women who fake orgasms because their husbands would be crushed if they didn't.

Listen to her, lighten up, and accept those occasional quickies as her way of giving you the gift of her body and physical love. 



Ray83 said:


> Ok, point taken on not asking what she's thinking, thanks! *The weight is a battle but its getting better. I've been working out for about a month and focusing on eating better.* As far as foreplay beginning before the bedroom I agree, here's what I've found. Very rarely does she like to sit and cuddle on the couch, too much to do she says. *I've been trying to help her with household stuff,* not that I think it's her responsibility, but I've been trying to do more. In the last month or so she's cooked twice, she pointed that out to me, I've been trying to help more with laundry and dishes, etc etc, but *she always says there's too much to do and she just can't relax.* I've tried doing everything she's asked in order for her to feel more at peace when she comes home.


I would like to suggest four books that helped save my SSM. The first two are MW Davis, the Sex Starved Marriage and Glover's No More Mr. Nice Guy. They should be considered companion books that explain much of the same information for a HD man in an SSM, but from dramatically different perspective. From what you posted, I would strongly urge you to read and study both. They both urge you to recognize that YOU are part of the problem in your sexual mismatch. To cure this, they both recommend that you "Get a Life" which typically entails loosing weight, working out, and changing who you are emotionally. Davis with tell you stop pursuing as much and don't be clingy and to find things that don't involve your wife that make you happy. Glover will tell you to become a more integrated man, responsible for for his own happiness, not needing a woman's validation and not being codependent. Glover and Davis will urge you to take up hobbies that force your spouse to look at you differently and realize that you are a changed person they can no longer treat the same. 

Next I would recommend Sue Johnson's book Hold Me Tight. It is about how Touch is a form of human communication and how it is a primal requirement for people to be emotionally healthy.

The fourth book that saved my marriage and took a lot of introspection to figure out, was Chapman's the 5 Languages of Love. I learned from Chapman that my wife was telling my every day that she loved me, but in a love language I didn't understand. I learned that I was telling my wife that I loved her in a love language she could not understand. When I started to tell my wife how much I loved her in her love languages, she started to feel loved and she felt cherished. That allowed her to relax and in our discussion she learned how to make me feel loved (it didn't involve sex, but it lead to sex).

For example, my wife is an act of service LL person and a quality time person. These may not be your wife's LL's, but they are my wife's LL's. When I did the dishes or laundry, she thought that I was just pitching with with the chores. However, when I brought her coffee in bed(act of service) in the morning to help her wake up and we talked (quality time) as we drank coffee together, she felt really loved in her love languages. That started the day off well for her and on weekends when she can sleep in, almost always leads to sex, which I think is pretty great, but I don't count on it. I do it as an act of service because I love her. She would know if I was trying to get sex out of some covert contract (Glover) or quid pro quo.

You need to figure out your wife's LL's. Then do things that make her feel loved. Yes, you do need to do your share of the chores around the house so she can relax, but that is secondary.



Ray83 said:


> I try very hard not to argue over sex. We have discussions about it, that seems to be more productive. * As far as pouting about not getting any I try to avoid that too. Not saying it hasn't happened, but I try to be more conscious of my reactions*.


One of the things I loved about David Schnarch in his books the Passionate Marriage and the Crucible. was that he says that no amount of stressing feelings or not using "you" words will make a couple happy. Most couples communicate very well, although not by words. We communicate by facial expressions, tone of voice, body language, etc. 

You may feel that you are trying not to "pout" but anytime you are biting your tongue or feeling rejected your wife probably knows it in an instant no matter what you try to do or cover up. 

What I had to learn was to let go of all my anger and forgive my wife for hurting me emotionally. I had to learn to love her unconditionally and make her feel loved each and every day. I had to learn to respect that she has a different desired level of sex and arousal pattern. It helped me that I figured out the things I had done to hurt her and that she had encouraged me to do some that hurt her emotionally. I started to forgive her by realizing how much I hurt her and by apologizing to her. Then it was much easier to realize that she too was human and made mistakes. I would tell myself in a Davis/Glover way that I was really responsible for my own happiness. That my wife could make me happy, but that ultimately if she became ill or died or we divorced, I would need to be responsible for doing things that made me happy and complete.


I wish you and your wife the best of luck. Listen to what she tells you. She is telling you her reality. She is also telling you she wants to compromise and make your happy. The two of you need to change yourselves in ways that are consistent with your own inner values and work out compromises. You can't change her. You can change yourself. You can inspire her that change is possible. You can reinforce positive changes, but only she can change herself and only if she wants to. You need to find compromises that work for the two of you.

While I would love to have sex with my wife 3 times a week, I can live with twice a week. While my wife would like to have sex once a week to once every two weeks, she can compromise on twice a week. 

While it is hard for my wife to orgasm unless all kinds of things line up right, I can help her have enjoyable toe curling sex most fo the time (maybe three times out of four in a two-week period) by making her feel loved, by doing things to relax her, by not making her feel like she has to perform, but making sex fun and playful. An that one time in three, she can smile at me and give me the gift of her body and physical love. Then after I orgasm, she can hold me smile at me and know that at age 66 she can use her body to rock my world and make me feel happy and close to her.

Good luck.


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## Ray83 (Sep 28, 2015)

Young at heart, wow!!!! Thank you for all the info!!


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## Justinian (Mar 7, 2015)

Ray83 said:


> Young at heart, wow!!!! Thank you for all the info!!


I agree, great post!


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Spitfire said:


> There's a good chance your wife just isn't "into" you anymore. My wife is always "tired" too only she goes to bed way before me usually around 8:30pm or so. She lays in bed surfing the Internet on her phone until she hears me turn off the tv around 11:00pm then pretends to be sleeping. I'm at the point now that I never initiate sex. If she wants it she'll have to initiate it. About once per month is how often she wants it. Your wife could be a similar combination of "Low Drive" and "Not that into me". You can jump through all kinds of hoops trying to fix things if you want but she probably won't change in the long run.


at least she still wants it, even if only once a month. that's a good thing.


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

Ray83 said:


> Ok, point taken on not asking what she's thinking, thanks! The weight is a battle but its getting better. I've been working out for about a month and focusing on eating better. As far as foreplay beginning before the bedroom I agree, here's what I've found. Very rarely does she like to sit and cuddle on the couch, too much to do she says. I've been trying to help her with household stuff, not that I think it's her responsibility, but I've been trying to do more. In the last month or so she's cooked twice, she pointed that out to me, I've been trying to help more with laundry and dishes, etc etc, but she always says there's too much to do and she just can't relax. I've tried doing everything she's asked in order for her to feel more at peace when she comes home.


Who's requirements is she meeting here? Do you expect cooked meals and a neat/clean house and the laundry baskets empty and the clothes put away, or is this something she is doing to herself/feels she is expected to do as a good wife? 

I know that my STBXH said he was not "comfortable" in his home unless it was neat. Dishes would come before time with me or the kids. Problem there is that he expects 3 cooked meals a day, so there were always dishes. Sometimes two loads a day. He also expected the downstairs to be neat with no toys on the floor. Now, we both work and our kids are still young. I could not meet his expectations, mainly because my priority was to spend time with the kids. If his had been that, or at least quality time with me, rather than me being last place, things could have been different.

So, I would want to understand what is driving these expectations. That will at least help you understand some of why she's so tired. And honestly, if she's working that hard at home, sex will seem like work, too. It will become something she must do because it's important to someone else/another expectation/item on her to do list. That will kill her sexual desire, as all she really wants at night is some down time/time when she's not meeting anyone's expectations and can just relax.

Also makes me think of that old song, "Put another log on the fire."
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E4KJrvlMccw
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

jorgegene said:


> at least she still wants it, even if only once a month. that's a good thing.


Not if she's determined to stay at that frequency.


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