# How does someone tell when both parties are "truly" in for the Reconciliation?



## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

*How does someone tell when both parties are "truly" in for the Reconciliation?*

Like the title says, how does a person tell when both parties are "truly" committed to R? Is it like the cheating suspicions that your gut instinct drives the feeling of whether or not it is true and not false reconciliation? I know that I am all in most of the time (I am being truthful as we all have our off or down days that we really wonder if it is worth it to try and are not on our A game), but I don't seem to see the same in her. I feel that she has checked out years ago. 

She was the WS and had A's (EA and PA) but says she is doing all that I ask and need and that I either don't see or or don't want to see it. SHe might be right as she has cut me to the bone. I have been reading the books, watching the movies, working on myself, going to counseling (we have had to stop due to finances and availability of counselors), and being more involved with the family (this is a big thing for me as I wasn't raised in a household that showed emotion), yet I don't see much of anything by her. When she points things out, I tell her that I do see things she has done, but I need x, y, and z and she is not doing those things (so I do convey what I need and want to her). She has yet to do any of them and this makes me hurt and sad, as I see it as her not trying or being committed. The worst part is that over the period we have been trying to R, I have become cold, hardened, and detached to the situation. 

Do we still have a chance or is it truly not worth the effort and over? (I have tried the R route as we have been together over 18 years, 15 married), have 2 kids, and I do love her, although I think her love for me has died a long time ago and isn't coming back.)


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

*Re: How does someone tell when both parties are "truly" in for the Reconciliation?*

You've been together for over 18 years, Squeakr. You know the truth. There are times, as sad as they are, when we must let go.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

*Re: How does someone tell when both parties are "truly" in for the Reconciliation?*



SomedayDig said:


> You've been together for over 18 years, Squeakr. You know the truth. There are times, as sad as they are, when we must let go.


Thanks Dig. I think you are right in your assessment (and agree with it), except after what she has done, and as I find out more, I don't know that I have ever really known her, 18 years together or not. From what I can tell she has been playing me in some sort of way the entire marriage, although she says otherwise. Even when she was "in" to me, I am finding out that I don't think she really was and was just playing the part, which makes me think the worst at all times now.

Guess I just need to cut the rope and file.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

*Re: How does someone tell when both parties are "truly" in for the Reconciliation?*

Buddy...that's the scary part that I didn't want to write. How well did you _really_ know her during those years. I understand. My first wife and I were together over a decade. She cheated. I tried to reconcile - see that? *I* tried. I never really knew her until I pulled the veil back and let myself really see her. There is such a huge f'ng difference between how she reacted to reconciliation versus my wife now. Total opposites. Hence, my experience with the first fully prepared me, unfortunately, for the second.

I'm really sorry you're at that point, my friend. Cutting the rope is no easy matter. I can say, with my first wife who did nothing to really work on reconciliation - that once I did cut it, my life became so much easier. I literally found my voice after I made the decision. Literally. One day the constricted sounding voice I had turned into quite a deep baritone. My secretary, who knew the score, commented that it was a night and day difference in me and my personality the following morning.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

*Re: How does someone tell when both parties are "truly" in for the Reconciliation?*



Squeakr said:


> She was the WS and had A's (EA and PA) but says she is doing all that I ask and need and that I either don't see or or don't want to see it. SHe might be right as she has cut me to the bone. I have been reading the books, watching the movies, working on myself, going to counseling (we have had to stop due to finances and availability of counselors), and being more involved with the family (this is a big thing for me as I wasn't raised in a household that showed emotion), yet *I don't see much of anything by her. When she points things out, I tell her that I do see things she has done, but I need x, y, and z and she is not doing those things (so I do convey what I need and want to her).* She has yet to do any of them and this makes me hurt and sad, as I see it as her not trying or being committed. The worst part is that over the period we have been trying to R, I have become cold, hardened, and detached to the situation.


It's what it is. What does she has to say about X, Y, Z not done?


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

*Re: How does someone tell when both parties are "truly" in for the Reconciliation?*

The answers change. Sometimes it is, that she thinks she is doing those things, other times it is that she doesn't know how to do those things as I need them done (and that is hard to believe as they are distinct actions, such as tell me the truth) so she does other things she thinks I need/ want, and at one point I even got that she didn't know how to do those things.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

*Re: How does someone tell when both parties are "truly" in for the Reconciliation?*

Squeakr, do you honestly think/feel that if reconciliation was absolutely in her heart, that there would be _any_ confusion as to what is needed on her behalf?

THIS is what I was talking about in another thread this morning. You *know* easily within a short while if a wayward "gets it". You also know if they do not.


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

*Re: How does someone tell when both parties are "truly" in for the Reconciliation?*

It sounds to me like you know the answer to your question already. I was the WS involved in an EA. Our R was so successful because we both put 100% into it. I still do every single day. It sounds like your W is not doing this. She may not really want this and is going through the motions. I have been there also, there was so much resentment and I was still semi in the fog when I agreed to R I was definitely not giving it 100%. I did wake up, completely snapped out of it and realized that I did want this marriage to work. So I did everything in my power to make that happen. Im glad my H stuck by me for that to happen. 

Sounds like you need to really talk to her and get her to open up to you with 100% honesty. It is the only way you can move on in either direction.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

*Re: How does someone tell when both parties are "truly" in for the Reconciliation?*

Can I ask what types of thinks you are asking of her that she isnt doing? 

Do you think that maybe she is doing them to the best of her ability and you are just having a hard time accepting it because it doesnt seem like enough after all the pain you have endured?


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

*Re: How does someone tell when both parties are "truly" in for the Reconciliation?*

I truly am not sure what is in her heart. As far as I can tell, the A is over. I have all the emails, phone access, and everything being fully out there (FB was closed, as were other non necessary things that facilitated her A), but feel that she is not really dedicated to R. I am in IT and not a moron, so even thought I know that I have access to everything and nothing has been happening through those channels, she can (and has proven this) open accounts and hide everything on the side if she wants to.

I have tried to "really" talk to her on several occasions but she always becomes defensive and doesn't seem into it nor willing to give me anything during these conversations. We both realize that we have communication issues, but without addressing them will never get past this and be able to really talk. The hardest part is that she has re-written the history of our marriage to support herself to such a degree that she believes what she is saying actually occurred, even when told by un-objective third parties that things she described never happened. She is even starting to believe that she has mental illness of some sort (documented history of this abounds in her family history) and this is driving her state of mind (yet I can't get her into counseling no matter whatI try).


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

*Re: How does someone tell when both parties are "truly" in for the Reconciliation?*



LetDownNTX said:


> Can I ask what types of thinks you are asking of her that she isnt doing?
> 
> Do you think that maybe she is doing them to the best of her ability and you are just having a hard time accepting it because it doesnt seem like enough after all the pain you have endured?


I said I need the following:

1) her to tell me about the A's in full truth (and not just answer the questions I ask, but actually own her actions) as she has never told me about anything, it is all my detective work that has revealed anything, 

2) I need her to apologize to several people that she has wronged by her actions, word, and behaviors, 

3) I need her to help out with the finances of the family (as she claimed that I was depriving her of money and things she wanted, when in reality I was just trying to keep us afloat when their were no extra funds at the time, as she has no idea about our finances and has never taken any responsibility for them and spending we do)

4) I wanted a NC letter to the AP (she says that it is too late now as this would reopen that communication and she hasn't had contact so the letter would be going against the NC she has already accepted, although she never admitted fault and told that NC was happening).

To me these are cut and dried requests that would show she is working towards something and willing to do things, yet she has not done any of these and it has been a year already (well she has started to perform 3, but I am not sure if that is so she would know more when she decides to leave).


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

*Re: How does someone tell when both parties are "truly" in for the Reconciliation?*



Squeakr said:


> I have tried to "really" talk to her on several occasions but she always becomes defensive and doesn't seem into it nor willing to give me anything during these conversations.


This...THIS is one of the biggest signs, man. Defensiveness during talks. I hate to keep bringing up my stuff, but it's the only way I can relay advice. My first wife was always defensive. Didn't wanna talk about it - just rug sweep. I caught her less than a year into "reconciliation" at a bar with the OM. I put my ring on the bar and walked out. That was it. With my wife, Regret214, she listened to me talk and she answered my questions. Yes, there was some trickle truth, however that will happen with EVERY affair. No wayward EVER tells the complete truth from the sounding gun of Dday. Ever. But...it all did come out within 5 months. She was never defensive even when I was quite venomous with my word choice. She never cut me off when I spoke. Well, she did once and that didn't end well for her. So, she never cut me off again.




Squeakr said:


> She is even starting to believe that she has mental illness of some sort (documented history of this abounds in her family history) and this is driving her state of mind (yet I can't get her into counseling no matter whatI try).


Do NOT let her put this sh-t off as a mental illness. Sorry, I'll catch a bunch of flack for this but it is the ultimate cop out. There is no BPD/ADHD/Bipolar/Aspergers what-the-f-ck-ever disorder is claimed. Period. Don't buy the hype. It's a f'ng rouse by pharmaceutical companies trying to make dough off of people looking for answers.



**this is not to say those disorders are fake - but they do NOT justify a f'ng affair at all and I would say unscientifically that 99% of the claims are false**


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

*Re: How does someone tell when both parties are "truly" in for the Reconciliation?*



Squeakr said:


> I said I need the following:
> 
> 1) her to tell me about the A's in full truth (and not just answer the questions I ask, but actually own her actions) as she has never told me about anything, it is all my detective work that has revealed anything, I can relate to you on this one. There are little things here and there that I want to know but I really dont need or want to know the deep down dirty stuff. My heart has already been broken, I dont need other things to try to wrap my brain around. My husband is the same way though. He didnt/doesnt disclose anything that I dont ask. The therapist said alot of people react in this way, they feel guilty and bad for what happened and dont want to hurt the other partner more. I think it depends on how bad you need/want to know whether it is a necessity in your forward progress.
> 
> ...


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

*Re: How does someone tell when both parties are "truly" in for the Reconciliation?*

You looks like you're in False R and she is rugsweeping.


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## LoriC (Feb 18, 2013)

*Re: How does someone tell when both parties are "truly" in for the Reconciliation?*



Squeakr said:


> I truly am not sure what is in her heart. As far as I can tell, the A is over. I have all the emails, phone access, and everything being fully out there (FB was closed, as were other non necessary things that facilitated her A), but feel that she is not really dedicated to R. I am in IT and not a moron, so even thought I know that I have access to everything and nothing has been happening through those channels, she can (and has proven this) open accounts and hide everything on the side if she wants to.
> 
> I have tried to "really" talk to her on several occasions but she always becomes defensive and doesn't seem into it nor willing to give me anything during these conversations. We both realize that we have communication issues, but without addressing them will never get past this and be able to really talk. The hardest part is that she has re-written the history of our marriage to support herself to such a degree that she believes what she is saying actually occurred, even when told by un-objective third parties that things she described never happened. She is even starting to believe that she has mental illness of some sort (documented history of this abounds in her family history) and this is driving her state of mind (yet I can't get her into counseling no matter whatI try).


The fact that she will not go to counseling is a huge red flag. I not only went to MC with my H but IC as well. 

I told my H I would do anything and everything to make this work. She should be telling you the same thing.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

*Re: How does someone tell when both parties are "truly" in for the Reconciliation?*

Your wife is not committed to R. She is trying to control the situation and giving you little of what you need.

You know what has to happen now.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

*Re: How does someone tell when both parties are "truly" in for the Reconciliation?*

Lord,
I have had her read this and she gets it, but still doesn't seem to want to acknowledge that it applies to her or her situation (at least that is the way I see it).

Dig,
I am not trying to say that she is using the chance of a mental illness as an excuse (please don't take it that way), as she has finally come to her senses and realizes it was her decision and not a mistake (as she used to refer to it as). She is just concerned that she may have some sort of long stemming mental illness that is causing her to not judge things and behave as a non mentally inflicted person would, that maybe she has some deep rooted void that she is trying to fill with her actions, both good and bad.

LetDown,
I agree with your sentiments. Some of the easiest things to do have yet to be done and make no sense other than lack of wanting to do them. As for the money, she is one to spend without thought of consequences or in regard to earnings. She seems to have that old idea that we must still have money left as we still have checks (I know this is dated with ATM cards and electronic payments being the norm these days).


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

*Re: How does someone tell when both parties are "truly" in for the Reconciliation?*



LoriC said:


> The fact that she will not go to counseling is a huge red flag. I not only went to MC with my H but IC as well.
> 
> I told my H I would do anything and everything to make this work. She should be telling you the same thing.


She is willing to go to MC and has wanted to for years (and we have gone, but that is not an option at the moment due to finances and lack of counselor availability) but just will not go to IC as I think she needs it, and think she is afraid of what it will reveal (her family history is awful with lots of skeletons in that closet I am slowly finding out).


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

*Re: How does someone tell when both parties are "truly" in for the Reconciliation?*



Squeakr said:


> Dig,
> I am not trying to say that she is using the chance of a mental illness as an excuse (please don't take it that way), as she has finally come to her senses and realizes it was her decision and not a mistake (as she used to refer to it as). She is just concerned that she may have some sort of long stemming mental illness that is causing her to not judge things and behave as a non mentally inflicted person would, that maybe she has some deep rooted void that she is trying to fill with her actions, both good and bad.


Totally understood, man. I admit to coming off pretty strongly when that kind of thing is bantered about. I do so because I don't want any betrayed spouse to ever be told _______ made me do it.

Around TAM, I'm kind of the guy who likes to talk more about reconciliation than divorce. However, I have been known to say divorce is probably the only way the betrayed will heal.

I honestly feel that divorce is the only way to heal yourself, Squeakr. And that is quite difficult for me to say/type out. I don't say that easily. Ever.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

*Re: How does someone tell when both parties are "truly" in for the Reconciliation?*

Unfortunately, I think you are right in that she and the marriage are not reconcilable. I see little remorse and/ or guilt (and maybe that is just me). She thinks that not engaging in the acts seems to be a big sign that she has changed (although I am afraid it could start again in the future and the real scary realization is that maybe cheating is her true colors and she is finally letting them shine). People say that they can change, but I wonder if what I had seen early on in the marriage is the temporary change and the cheating is her true state???


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

*Re: How does someone tell when both parties are "truly" in for the Reconciliation?*



Squeakr said:


> People say that they can change, but I wonder if what I had seen early on in the marriage is the temporary change and the cheating is her true state???


Aye. There's the rub.


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