# Boring vanilla sex



## Godot (Feb 21, 2014)

My husband and I have the same sex every time, and it is getting more and more infrequent.

I won't have enough room to write every thing here, and it would take all evening, and no one would want to read it all in one setting, but I will give the outline. We have some very deep issues in our marriage, but one symptom I can't live with is our horrible sex life. If it were better, I would have the desire to work on the rest of the marriage.

We met on a dating website, 8 years ago, married for 6. I was a late 20 year old divorced mother of 3, aged 2-6. I had been celibate since before the birth of my 2 year old, and had only recently started dating again. He was in his early 30's, living with his sister, never married, no kids he was so much fun, and I had been really lonely, and he seemed to have a good heart, was great with my kids, and we could laugh and laugh together.

Sex in the beginning was sneaking around, like teenagers since my kids were at my place, and he lived with his sister. Backseat of the car, in the woods, mutual masturbation before I dropped him off at his sister's(he didn't drive either) a BJ under the patio, quickies in the bathroom while he bent me over the sink. It was exciting after 2 over years of celibacy and the thought of it turned me on. Just shaving my legs to get ready to see him was foreplay. I couldn't get enough and consequently, I was the initiator. I always figured out the logistics and he was eager to please.

By the time we were married, 3 or 4 times a week we would lay down together at night, and I would stroke his chest then belly, and find he had an erection, and I would perform oral on him, and then we would have standard missionary. The other 3 or 4 days a week, I would lay on my side, hoping and praying he would initiate sex with me. Never happened. I would give subtle signs to show I was open for it, but he never took the hint.

After several years of ME telling HIM how boring sex is, and how I want him to initiate and try new things and show he desires me, there has been little change. We now have our same sex scenario where we shower together, kiss, I use the shower head on my clit, while giving him oral, then we proceed to missionary PIV, in the bedroom, with the occasionally doggy style PIV every few months. Or I will suffer through him fumbling me with a soft penis, so I will perform oral to get it hard, then find the hole for him. and we do missionary PIV. Every. Single. Time.

Every few months I am very vocal in telling him that I am bored,and that I want him to initiate and try new things. He agrees and degrades himself on how stoopid he is, and then nothing happens. I just wait and wait. I want good oral, and he is pitiful at it so I bought him "She Comes First", an oral how-to guide. He reads and then does what he wants still. He gets all porno looking and gets into it and slobbers everywhere and grinds himself on the bed and gasps and writhes and breathes hard and tried to give me smoldering eye contact...meanwhile he is in the wrong spot, doing something weird that doesn't feel good, drooling and panting. When I try to guide him and tell him what I like and don't like, he ignores me. I try to be considerate of his male ego so I will pull away, and guide him to another area, and then he goes right back to the dull. So I will try again, ever so nicely. Then when he goes back it, or something else dull, I will try again. "Baby, please don't do that. I really like this... Please do this...Please do that...Please don't ever do that again... I really don't like that..." I say it all breathy to try to keep the mood, and try to stay relaxed...

Meanwhile he ignores it all, does what he wants and profusely slobbers and makes excessive mouth noises that i find nauseating. Finally, after asking him several times not to do a specific maneuver, I will push his head, and tell him, "Effing stop that! I hate it, and I don't ever want you to do that again. It not only doesn't feel good, it feels bad! EFF!" But I don't mind killing the mood at that point or his ego, because all the coddling doesn't do any good anyway. And of course he gets all butt-hurt about it. And he will try to do it angrily, and wind up hurting me. Then we are DONE, and go back to boring sex. Repeat a month or two later.

I don't want to write a script for him, and i don't want to have a puppet or a human sex toy. I want him to desire me, and think of dirty stuff to do to me, and try to please me. I was excitement and to be shocked. I want to be tied to the bed and ravaged. And he knows this! And yet does nothing about it. The rare occasions he will try it is so false and phony and his heart isn't in it. I even bought a "kit" with a vibrator and dildo, c0ck ring, butt plug, ben-wa balls, vibrating bullet and butt beads last week. I would literally let him DO ANYTHING to me, if he would just take some initiative.

Last night I partook of several adult beverages, shaved my legs, bikini line, trimmed, got spotlessly clean inside and out and ready for anything he would want to do, and begged him to take advantage of me. He had looked at the new toys and put them away on Wednesday, and I asked him to Google how to use them and think of something kinky to do to me. We showered together, and he did feebly decide to bend me over the sink, but I had to suck him erect and find the hole for him after much fumbling, so it certainly lacked the whole "ravishment" vibe. He didn't orgasm, but I had one, but we had previously decided to continue in the bedroom, but he just kept going and I had to tell him to stop, I got of already and my calves were on fire from being on my tip toes. So, he takes me into the bedroom and prepares to flop on me. So I just told him I was disappointed he didn't have any candles lit or a dildo or **** ring under the pillow, ready and waiting. And he is infuriated. He never used that stuff and is afraid of it. So we argue for a bit, and I tell him what I need, how horney I am, how I am craving fun and excitement, and to be ravages and desired and he says he's a loser, and then i lay down and drift in and out of sleep with my boobs out and my legs open. He reads for a while, then covers me with a blanket, turns out the light and goes to sleep.

So I get up, grab the box of sex toys and barricade myself in the bathroom. He hears me open the cabinet to get the toys and wakes up, and asks me what I am doing. What toy am i using, can he watch? NO!! EFF NO!! I BEGGED him to eff me, and he went to sleep. So I get into the shower with the dildo and the massaging shower head and he busts in the door, climbs in and tried to get me to give him a BJ. Rubs it all over my face, and tried to put it in my mouth while I am coming. I ignored him, and got out, dried off and he jerks off in the cold shower with no water running. I go to bed.

This cycle is pathetic and it is destroying our marriage. When asked about his fantasies, it is always receiving oral. When i ask what he jerks off to, he always tells me he can't think of anything better than stuff we have already done, so he thinks about the time I dragged him around the side of the apartment and blew him, or the time I blew him on the porch, or the time I blew him while I sat on the basement steps, or the time I blew him _____. He literally has no imagination. And would rather just sneak-jerk and remember the past, while I am aching for the D. 

I have even given him short erotic novels that i found rather hot and he says it was hot, but then we do the boring missionary where he sprawls on me and hurts my thighs.

If I don't do anything, we don't have sex. But I NEED him to take control of the situation, but he won't. He thinks it means angry sex, and my hip still hurts where he wrenched it last night.

Any suggestions? Sorry this is so long, but I wanted to give a lot of info, so you don't have to ask a lot of questions.


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## PinkSalmon13 (Nov 7, 2013)

Holy shizznits, hard to read this being a man trapped in a sexless marriage!!

Is he in good shape, lift weights? Is his testosterone flowing freely? Is he watching BJ-based porn a lot? Barring those things, I have no clue what could be the matter.


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## Godot (Feb 21, 2014)

PinkSalmon13 said:


> Holy shizznits, hard to read this being a man trapped in a sexless marriage!!
> 
> Is he in good shape, lift weights? Is his testosterone flowing freely? Is he watching BJ-based porn a lot? Barring those things, I have no clue what could be the matter.


He is in great shape. He doesn't work out, but he works hard, lots of heavy lifting of awkwardly large sheet metal, and he skate boards, so he has great muscles, not a single ounce of body fat, and sleek, not bulky. 5'10", about 150 pounds.

I, on the other hand, am fatter than I have ever been. I have always been gently rounded, and large breasted, but due to stress and a medical condition due to pregnancy, I haven't lost the baby weight after my last child. I am still hour glass shaped, but with very large hips, thighs, bottom and sagging breasts due to breast feeding, size fluctuation, and poor genes. I have a bigger belly than I am comfortable with, and fatter arms and such. 

I am very uncomfortable with the weight, especially since his legs look so spindly next to mine, and my belly looks so round and white and huge next to his 8-pack abs, but he assures me he has never been more turned on by me, and he loves my "burgers" (muffin top/love handles). He even says he has never liked fake breasts, he has always been drawn to a bit of sagging. I saw he searched for MILF porn, so I know he likes older, less tight bodies. I also have GIANT 3" areolas and long, big nipples, so I can see if he didn't find me attractive, but he assures me he does. He even wants the light on, and watches me in our mirrored head board, or in the bathroom mirror, and stares at me and tells me how cute, or hot or sexy he finds me. 

He just doesn't fantasize, he sees me and thinks, "She is so sexy, I would love a BJ." rather than, "She is so sexy, I would love to _____" 

He doesn't always get rock hard during PIV, there seams to be a bit of coaxing a limp noodle at times, but he is always rock hard during oral. He has a fixation for it, and has cheated on past girl friends for oral, has had "friends" who gave him oral as casually as they would some matches or something. He actually had his first BJ at 15, from a male friend, not dreaming he would be asked to return the favor, and did, but he was very young and never repeated it. Hated it, but felt obligated. (Funny how he won't return the favor with me, but assures me he is "willing" to. ) He did have a guy who would give him weed and BJs drive him around like they were just friends at around 17, but he was never asked to return the favor. He wasn't with a woman until he was 19, and has never had sex with a man. He has even had a male friend literally beg to give him a BJ, while the friend's pregnant wife was at the store, as an adult. He turned him down, but they are Facebook friends, and have known each other since the 7th grade. They never bring it up, though, he says he never think about it with guys, and actually had forgotten about it until the guy brought it up.

I found that out when I caught him with a fake email account, from which he was asking people if they were into BJ's, if they swallowed or liked facials, how old they were when they gave their first one, whose idea was it, did they enjoy it... To be clear, he was asking females, and not getting any who would talk about it, so when I guy chimed in and talked about it, he was resistant and made it clear he only wanted to talk to women, but told him that he had guys give him BJ's in the past... Then asked the dude if spit or swallowed... :scratchhead:

He has actually been busted sexting and emailing to ask people about their experiences with BJ's, multiple times, so we have a lot of trust issues, and I have reason to believe that he doesn't find me attractive, or isn't into me. But I indulge him with BJ's all.the.time. It is seriously our only foreplay. I am a giver, so it seriously turns me on almost as much as it does him. I know exactly how he wants it, and how to keep him on the edge and I will often change up what we do with the O, but I have allowed pearl necklaces, facials, spit, swallowed, and ducked. I have asked him what he wants to do with it, to try to encourage him to talk dirty and fantasize, and told him what I was going to do with it, to indulge him, so he has no need to seek the dirty talk outside of the marriage. But he has still been busted for it time and time and time again. 

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, I am seriously unfilled. He is prissy about sex, always just assumes the door is closed, never wants angry sex or make-up sex or break-up sex, and even ridiculed me for wanting it. I have always been very sexual, and always made sure to have break-up sex, since it is so hot, lol. You're not trying to impress each other, or self conscious, you're comfortable with nudity and angry and have a lot of incentive to make it super good, since it is the last time, and you also want them to know what they will be missing out on. It is the best. The Mr. and I have broken up or separated at least a dozen times and we have never had break-up sex. 

I did the math, and for at least 2 times a week, and probably 4-10 times a week, he has misread signals, or gotten all prissy and hateful when I was horny, and failed to give it to me, so we could have had sex at least 800- 5000 MORE times than we have in the past 8 years. And I am seriously grouchy without it. But I still want it when I am grouchy. I went through a low progesterone/depression period where i was feeling nonsexual, and actually went to the Dr., because it was so unlike me, and I am the type to attempt my own stitches or use bandages and popsicle stick braces, to avoid going to the Dr. After I got it sorted, I told my husband it felt like my blood was humming in my veins, and my P**** was throbbing and my nipples were aching, and I was so horny I thought I was going to scream if he didn't EFF me, and he still had to have his pre-coitial BJ and boring missionary. One time.


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## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

Sounds like you relationship is unhealthy if you two are having breakup sex, or at the very least contemplating it. 

And his sexting and talking to other people...
That is a massive red flag that would make me tell you to look for another woman. 


He doesn't sound fat so we can rule out ED, he keeps active so low-T isn't likely. I honestly don't know what it is. 

Sounds like he needs a good counselor.


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## Godot (Feb 21, 2014)

Juicer said:


> *Sounds like you relationship is unhealthy if you two are having breakup sex, or at the very least contemplating it.*
> 
> And his sexting and talking to other people...
> That is a massive red flag that would make me tell you to look for another woman.
> ...


I must have been unclear when I was talking about that, but yes, our relationship is unhealthy. Sex is just the tip of the iceberg, but I still need it.

It certainly has occurred to me he could have sex with other people if he left work to do it, but otherwise, we have a more boring social life than we do sex life. We are both always here. We don't go anywhere or do anything. The youngest is 5, and have not had money for dating or babysitters, so you can add financial problems to the list too. 

But we still laugh together, so as long as were are laughing, I could live with so many other problems if we were having sex and I felt desired, and satiated.


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## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

Godot said:


> I must have been unclear when I was talking about that, but yes, our relationship is unhealthy. Sex is just the tip of the iceberg, but I still need it.


So...have you contemplated counseling? Or brought it up to him? 

And you may want to carefully broach the subject, because I personally wasn't to happy for the idea of counseling. 



> It certainly has occurred to me he could have sex with other people if he left work to do it, but otherwise, we have a more boring social life than we do sex life. We are both always here. We don't go anywhere or do anything. The youngest is 5, and have not had money for dating or babysitters, so you can add financial problems to the list too.


I know that feeling. I had an old vice that shot up my sex drive and packed muscle onto my body. 
But don't think that a boring social lie = impossible to have affair. 

My XW had an affair. During which, we had NO social life. I was too busy with work to really notice. And I was being stupid thinking why would she go out and cheat when she was sleeping next to to the body of a Norse God. 
I hate saying it, I would just say, make sure. 


> But we still laugh together, so as long as were are laughing, I could live with so many other problems if we were having sex and I felt desired, and satiated.


I would say unless one of you, (mainly him) begins to figure the other out, one of you (And I mean you) will build up a lot of resentfulness.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Will he go to counseling - it sound like you have done absolutely everything you can think of to change the dynamic and he isn't getting the message. Rightfully so you are at the end of your rope with this situation and it doesn't sound like he's too happy either.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

The issue is clearly his but be careful not to assign female desires to a male.
The language you use about "being ravaged" and wanting him to take you is not language we men are use to or fantasize about.

From what you describe I think the other posters are right when they say he needs counselling. I'm not a huge fan of it, but in this particular case his early sexual impressions where shaped by taboo BJ's and that has shaped his desires today.

This sounds fixable but for whatever reason he has a sort of block on. Keep plugging away.


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## pierrematoe (Sep 6, 2013)

Hard to tell for sure obviously but I would not be shocked if he's a little more into the guy BJs than you think. It seems incredibly dangerous behavior discussing such things online with others and clearly he's not intimate emotionally with his wife. 

I would be cautious of having sex with him unless I was sure he did not have any diseases from an encounter you don't know about. 

If you're feeling undesired, that's the beginning of the end in my mind. Same thing in my marriage where I feel completely undesired sexually by a wife who is otherwise exceptional in all other areas (kids, home, etc)


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

It sounds like you have done everything possible but counseling. I guess that is worth a try.

Maybe he is just too caught up in porn and his BJ obsession to ever be a good lover. I can understand it might take a person a bit of practice to learn to give good oral but to never get it is strange.

I can assure you that there are plenty of guys that want to ravish women and think that you where all their Christmas presents combined into one package.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Wow this one is all over the place. You need to have some counseling (sex specialist) if for no other reason to find a way to communicate about what you want and need.


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## Godot (Feb 21, 2014)

MissScarlett said:


> Will he go to counseling - it sound like you have done absolutely everything you can think of to change the dynamic and he isn't getting the message. Rightfully so you are at the end of your rope with this situation and it doesn't sound like he's too happy either.


He will go to counseling, but we can't afford it. I don't even really see how it will help. I can tell him exactly what I want him to do, and he may give a begrudging half-hearted effort, then go back to what he knows and loves, regardless of how much I dislike it.


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## Godot (Feb 21, 2014)

sinnister said:


> The issue is clearly his *but be careful not to assign female desires to a male.
> The language you use about "being ravaged" and wanting him to take you is not language we men are use to or fantasize about*.
> 
> From what you describe I think the other posters are right when they say he needs counselling. I'm not a huge fan of it, but in this particular case his early sexual impressions where shaped by taboo BJ's and that has shaped his desires today.
> ...


I get that, but I have explained exactly what I mean by "ravaged". I mean stop piddering around, waiting for me to initiate, show some passion, tell me what you want me to do, or what you would like to do to me, then follow through. Learn how to please me, or at least stop doing stuff I hate. Learn how to find the hole. Try new things, nix the porno face, stop slobbering everywhere. Be a caveman, I want my hair pulled during doggy style, and he just fondles it. Shock me!

And I really enjoy giving BJ's so it isn't a problem that he loves to get them, but I want him to return the favor. I don't understand why he would rather talk about it with some nasty *****, then jerk off to a memory of me doing it for him, that to get an actual BJ. I just want him to take some interest and make an effort to please me and I will do it often. I still do it when he is terrible to me, it is just that my heart isn't in it.


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## Godot (Feb 21, 2014)

pierrematoe said:


> Hard to tell for sure obviously but I would not be shocked if he's a little more into the guy BJs than you think. It seems incredibly dangerous behavior discussing such things online with others and clearly he's not intimate emotionally with his wife.
> 
> I would be cautious of having sex with him unless I was sure he did not have any diseases from an encounter you don't know about.
> 
> If you're feeling undesired, that's the beginning of the end in my mind. Same thing in my marriage where I feel completely undesired sexually by a wife who is otherwise exceptional in all other areas (kids, home, etc)


He never thought I would find out about the fake email address, so he didn't feel like he had anything to hide when he told that guy he had a guy blow him before. He never even told him about the "understanding" he had, or the fact he had done it once. He was open with me after I confronted him with what he had written. He said he wanted to just come clean and stop hiding things and tell me the truth. Not worry about what would happen if I found out. 

He says he has never met with anyone, or had sex or even kissed anyone since he met me. He is a big liar, and I know he cannot be trusted to tell the truth to save his life, but I have access to multiple accounts of his, and even had a key logger on our last computer (for 4 years) and he watched porn a few times, but there is no evidence of a physical affair. Since I can't prove it, I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, for now. We are disease free. 

And as far as feeling undesired, I know he loves having sex with me, and loves me to blow him, and he finds me attractive, he just doesn't want to work for it, or take responsibility for what he does sexually. Just pull his strings, and he performs, rather than puts out original work. He is more than happy to get his BJ's 7 days a week, and have some PIV, missionary style for the rest of his life. 

We don't have the luxury to end the marriage, we need each other. I am a SAHM, and he works full time. We don't have enough money to replace each other, so we are trying to make the best of it and figure it out.


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## Godot (Feb 21, 2014)

usmarriedguy said:


> It sounds like you have done everything possible but counseling. I guess that is worth a try.
> 
> *Maybe he is just too caught up in porn and his BJ obsession to ever be a good lover. I can understand it might take a person a bit of practice to learn to give good oral but to never get it is strange.*
> 
> I can assure you that there are plenty of guys that want to ravish women and think that you where all their Christmas presents combined into one package.


I have wondered that too, just too caught up in selfish desires. He does get the oral here and there, but he forgets what he learns when it is time to do it again. And it still is never earth moving, or toe curling. It is just standard, when I can actually orgasm. And I am very easily multi orgasmic, and if it is really good, I have been known to squirt, and he has gotten me almost there a couple times, but I am ultimately disappointed. And then he is boring the next time. He just forgets what he did, and has zero intuition.


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## Godot (Feb 21, 2014)

Wolf1974 said:


> Wow this one is all over the place. You need to have some counseling (sex specialist) if for no other reason to find a way to communicate about what you want and need.


We can't afford counseling, but I can assure you that I communicate my wants and needs very well. He KNOWS what I need, but there is some mental block that he can't get past. He even knows I am on here asking about it, and has seen my post. (He started an account yesterday, with the thought to start a post asking for advice, but he hasn't yet. He is "willing" just doesn't go for it, or when he does it is awkward as hell. It is all lack of imagination, or fear, or insecurities, or something on his part.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

OP

Just to understand better, would you say his sexual behavior with you changed post marriage or did your pre marital experience with him just not uncover some of his worst lovemaking habits or discrepancies?


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

A lot of people here have spouses that are pretty vanilla -it is not an uncommon problem. My wife could do it exactly the same for the rest of her life as far as I can tell. Getting her to be a bit more interesting has been slow going. 

I think that it is harder on women because society sets certain expectations of how a man is supposed to behave. A sexually passive woman is more acceptable than a sexually passive man. 

Maybe you have just made it too easy for him. He figures he can do whatever he wants.


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## indiecat (Sep 24, 2012)

He prefers to be on the receiving end, and he's not aggressive sexually. 

You are basically asking him to fake aggression, and it doesn't feel real to either of you, because it isn't. 

This is one of those situations where you decide if the good things about your relationship outweigh the negatives. 

Trying to turn a tomato into a potato doesn't work.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

Grow a penis. Bam! Problem solved. You're welcome.


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## pierrematoe (Sep 6, 2013)

Sometimes it clicks one day and you are forever changed. Sometimes it never does


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## Godot (Feb 21, 2014)

nuclearnightmare said:


> OP
> 
> Just to understand better, would you say his sexual behavior with you changed post marriage or did your pre marital experience with him just not uncover some of his worst lovemaking habits or discrepancies?


I definitely remember him initiating a few times. He did our first time, at least. But I was horny after 2+ years being celibate that I could barely keep my hands off him. I distinctly remember him heavy petting when we made out, but now a days I pretty much have to put his hands on me where I want them, because the waiting never ends. I remember not initiating for a whole week, 6-8 months in, hoping he would do it. But I wasn't vocal about it, and finally gave up, but I did tell him I had been hoping he would, and he said he had wanted to, but that was pretty much it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Godot (Feb 21, 2014)

usmarriedguy said:


> A lot of people here have spouses that are pretty vanilla -it is not an uncommon problem. My wife could do it exactly the same for the rest of her life as far as I can tell. Getting her to be a bit more interesting has been slow going.
> 
> I think that it is harder on women because society sets certain expectations of how a man is supposed to behave. A sexually passive woman is more acceptable than a sexually passive man.
> 
> Maybe you have just made it too easy for him. He figures he can do whatever he wants.


I can absolutely see making it too easy for him. He never had to take a risk, only act. But I have been pretty tame, and I don't need to be wild, I just want to do something else occasionally. What have you done to bring it up to her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Godot (Feb 21, 2014)

indiecat said:


> He prefers to be on the receiving end, and he's not aggressive sexually.
> 
> You are basically asking him to fake aggression, and it doesn't feel real to either of you, because it isn't.
> 
> ...


No, I'm not telling him to fake aggression, he is a pretty aggressive guy, I just want him to channel it into our sex life. I don't think it would be that difficult, I just don't think he has imagination.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Counterfit (Feb 2, 2014)

Let me make sure I fully understand this.......you are an over weight divorced single mother with not one, not two, but three dependent children and this single guy with no children not only dated you.......but actually married you.......and you now have a "complaint" about him?

I think you should stop complaining and be happy with what you have.


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## appletree (Oct 9, 2012)

Maybe it is exactly the fact that you tell him exactly what he has to do, I/m not a guy but doesn't that turn one off? If you tell someone like a mom what exactly he has to do but at the same time you want him to be aggressive that does not sum up.


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## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

Counterfit said:


> Let me make sure I fully understand this.......you are an over weight divorced single mother with not one, not two, but three dependent children and this single guy with no children not only dated you.......but actually married you.......and you now have a "complaint" about him?
> 
> I think you should stop complaining and be happy with what you have.


What a rotten/hurtful thing to write...Everyone deserves happiness in their lives.


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## daffodilly (Oct 3, 2011)

Counterfit said:


> Let me make sure I fully understand this.......you are an over weight divorced single mother with not one, not two, but three dependent children and this single guy with no children not only dated you.......but actually married you.......and you now have a "complaint" about him?
> 
> I think you should stop complaining and be happy with what you have.


This is when I wish TAM had an "unlike" button.


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## indiecat (Sep 24, 2012)

Sexually he's not an aggressor. Just not in him. Not an initiator either. Can't change a leopards spots.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

Godot said:


> I can absolutely see making it too easy for him. He never had to take a risk, only act. But I have been pretty tame, and I don't need to be wild, I just want to do something else occasionally. What have you done to bring it up to her?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The main problem early on for me was that oral sex (for me) was not a part of foreplay and she preferred touch for herself.
But she was agreeable to try and so we added it as a regular routine. She started off fairly tentative but after a year or so she started putting some passion into it.

I tried talking early on but last few years I have been trying to build her confidence. Mostly I just except that I am married to an uninspired LD woman and use porn to fill in the gaps. Kind of sad but it is what it is.

But she is a work in progress and I still think that she can continue to improve. Perhaps I have been too cautious and I could push her a bit harder. 

My guess is that it is actually easier to get a man to change because they almost all what to be good in bed. Whereas a lot of women seem to equate good in bed as being sl^tty. 

Even when us guys are clearly sl^tty we do not get that label. 
Society makes it easier for guys to be sexual than women.


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## Godot (Feb 21, 2014)

appletree said:


> Maybe it is exactly the fact that you tell him exactly what he has to do, I/m not a guy but doesn't that turn one off? If you tell someone like a mom what exactly he has to do but at the same time you want him to be aggressive that does not sum up.


 but I don't tell him exactly what he has to do. I don't know where you got that from. If I wait for him to think of something new, we will have the same sex for 4 years. Like we have. No variation. If you are talking about the oral, am I just supposed to lay there and pretend it is doing something for me? Or with his fingers? He has seriously rubbed the right side of my outer labia for 15 minutes. Not the inner labia or clitoris one time during. There are times he rubbed my urethra. For 5 minutes until it was so irritated I had to get up and try to pee. Not enjoyable. And then there are times where he has the exact right spot. Am I supposed to keep quiet about it and make him guess whether I like it? He has no intuition. This has been going on for 6 years or more, since we got married. I don't just tell him what to do at all. I suffer through for 5 years, and then bring it up, and nothing changes at all. I'm not sure where I am in the wrong?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Godot (Feb 21, 2014)

appletree said:


> Maybe it is exactly the fact that you tell him exactly what he has to do, I/m not a guy but doesn't that turn one off? If you tell someone like a mom what exactly he has to do but at the same time you want him to be aggressive that does not sum up.


 I mean, I would like him to be aggressive but pleasing. I don't need him to aggressively clip my toe nails or brush my hair, we are talking sexually. There are things that work and feel amazing and things that don't. When someone is doing something that feels awful, it is even worse when it is done aggressively. I would think guiding him to the middle where all the nerve endings are would be proactive. And I don't know what your mom was doing, but mine never talked to.me like that, and neither did his, so we are good on it being nothing like his mother talking to him when he fingers me. Or gives me face, and I am telling him it feels great or not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Godot (Feb 21, 2014)

Counterfit said:


> Let me make sure I fully understand this.......you are an over weight divorced single mother with not one, not two, but three dependent children and this single guy with no children not only dated you.......but actually married you.......and you now have a "complaint" about him?
> 
> I think you should stop complaining and be happy with what you have.


 what a completely stupid, male chauvinist thing to say. Just because he married me it doesn't mean I have to suffer through fumbling foreplay the rest of my life. I am very happy he chose to spend his life with us, and now we have a child together. After the last child, our child, is when i got fat. But I still have a good shape. And i I assure you I am very grateful he is a part of our family now, but when we discussed this, he said he veiwed it more as me opening up our lives and letting him in. More like me getting saddled with another child, not that he took on a family. We are partners. He hardly rescued me from my children. And I was supporting myself and my children with very little child support, and was doing just fine. I also managed to clean up his credit, and he makes more money than he ever has, and has a better work ethic than ever. I have always thought he was a prize and I have thanked him with my mouth as many as 3 times in 5 hours. He has had almost as many BJ's as he has had home cooked meals. He knows he is appreciated.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Godot (Feb 21, 2014)

usmarriedguy said:


> The main problem early on for me was that oral sex (for me) was not a part of foreplay and she preferred touch for herself.
> But she was agreeable to try and so we added it as a regular routine. She started off fairly tentative but after a year or so she started putting some passion into it.
> 
> I tried talking early on but last few years I have been trying to build her confidence. Mostly I just except that I am married to an uninspired LD woman and use porn to fill in the gaps. Kind of sad but it is what it is.
> ...


 I have tried to build confidence as well, and ignored fumbling or painful or awkwardness for a long time. But it has been to our detriment because I have stopped looking forward to sex. That really didn't do us any favors. He is very sexual, and the sex itself is great, but some variety is needed. I am even happy to help him find inspiration. 

Does your wife read erotica or romance novels? Maybe you could get her to, and she could find her inspiration? It is less offensive to many women who find porn disgusting. I could recommend some titles that made me want to call my husband home from work right then  I have sent some really interesting short stories to his Kindle that has given him some inspiration. We have had different foreplay.and more inspired positions a few times recently. Last night was wonderful 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## I Notice The Details (Sep 15, 2012)

sinnister said:


> The issue is clearly his but be careful not to assign female desires to a male.
> The language you use about "being ravaged" and wanting him to take you is not language we men are use to or fantasize about.
> 
> From what you describe I think the other posters are right when they say he needs counselling. I'm not a huge fan of it, but in this particular case his early sexual impressions where shaped by taboo BJ's and that has shaped his desires today.
> ...



:iagree: Counseling will probably help to uncover why he thinks blow jobs are the only form of foreplay. It must have come from some past relationship. He needs to learn how to treat your body with respect and give you the loving attention you need....I am not sure what will make him change. That is the key. He must see the need and want to make the change. You can't make him change. Only he can. 

PS: I wish my wife was as open minded to trying all of the things that you have tried. I certainly wish you well.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

Godot said:


> Does your wife read erotica or romance novels? Maybe you could get her to, and she could find her inspiration? It is less offensive to many women who find porn disgusting. I could recommend some titles that made me want to call my husband home from work right then  I have sent some really interesting short stories to his Kindle that has given him some inspiration. We have had different foreplay.and more inspired positions a few times recently. Last night was wonderful
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No unfortunately she is not into erotica, she will watch porn with me if I ask but she does not seem to have any need for it or variety. I do not think she has masturbated once since we have been together for 16 years. Jack Reacher series is as erotic as she gets. 

;-) I was actually going to make the same suggestion to you because there are probably some videos that he could watch that might give him some better idea how to do things.

It is a very slow road though. I manage because I am older an mellower and she is otherwise a good match. 

It sounds like you two have fairly good communication so maybe you just need to write down the few things you want him to do. I just do not see that you are really asking for much and nothing he would not be capable of and could probably get good at it with just a bit of practice.

I have not tried any female oriented porn on my wife -it could be that she would find that more erotic and less degrading.


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## pierrematoe (Sep 6, 2013)

I feel from reading the OPs posts that this is really tweaking in counseling rather than a major overhaul. He's obviously got some issues to work through but I'm labeling this Fixable!


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## Counterfit (Feb 2, 2014)

> Originally Posted by Counterfit
> Let me make sure I fully understand this.......you are an over weight divorced single mother with not one, not two, but three dependent children and this single guy with no children not only dated you.......but actually married you.......and you now have a "complaint" about him?
> 
> I think you should stop complaining and be happy with what you have.





T&T said:


> What a rotten/hurtful thing to write...Everyone deserves happiness in their lives.


Fact: The original poster is overweight.
Fact: The original poster has three dependent children.
Fact: Her husband is thin, with no children.
My Opinion: The original poster is damn lucky to have found a man to marry her considering her "liabilities". 

Nobody "deserves happiness" - one must earn happiness, one must work for happiness.

The original poster earned nothing and worked for nothing - she essentially won the marriage lottery considering what she had to offer a man (essentially nothing) and yet she has found something to complain about.


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## pierrematoe (Sep 6, 2013)

Counterfit said:


> Fact: The original poster is overweight.
> 
> Fact: The original poster has three dependent children.
> 
> ...



We didn't say you misstated anything....it's still insensitive and not helpful


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## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

Counterfit said:


> Fact: The original poster is overweight.
> Fact: The original poster has three dependent children.
> Fact: Her husband is thin, with no children.
> My Opinion: The original poster is damn lucky to have found a man to marry her considering her "liabilities".
> ...


I guess you missed post number 33...She has plenty to offer. 

As for your overweight comment, not everyone cares if their spouse has a few extra pounds and there are many men who prefer it.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Counterfit said:


> Fact: The original poster is overweight.
> Fact: The original poster has three dependent children.
> Fact: Her husband is thin, with no children.
> My Opinion: The original poster is damn lucky to have found a man to marry her considering her "liabilities".
> ...




Hmm, let's try an alternate story to expose a nice double standard:

I'm a middle aged fat guy that has my three bratty kids every weekend, and I pay my ex a bunch of child support and alimony. I thought I'd hit the jackpot when I met my current wife: she is is good shape, works, cooks and cleans, and helps with my bratty kids. My only complaint is that we have no sex life and it makes me feel worthless, and when we do have sex she just lays there and waits for me to get it over with. I really want to have a better sex life.

Can I assume you'd tell the above poster to stop b!tching and be thankful for what he has? 

Note to OP: don't think for a second that the above is meant to describe you or your kids, because it's not. It's just to expose a nice little double standard where mens sex lives are far more important and men do us a big fat favor by marrying us, so we should just be happy with what we get.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lift326 (Mar 18, 2014)

I have not read the thread but.... Is he gay or not attracted to you or sexually afraid of you?

Still women need to be wary of finding guys on dating sites.

A guy on a dating site is submissive or crazy or looking for @$$ only. Call it what you want.... But most men hunting for women can find a woman.

Heck I have been married forever and heck I can find a woman in a week, but seems like you found a guy fighting back his homosexual tendencies. Nothing wrong with being gay, but pretending to be straight is a violation.

Guys don't like touching other guys unless they are hitting each other.... Sucking each other's penis is gay. When another guy offers it to another guy he either refuses because he is not gay or accepts it because he is.... And returning the favor? You would basically have to shoot any straight man onhere to get him to suck another man.

Men do not like the hard arms and legs of other men and usually the softness of a woman arouses a man especially his wife but for your guy to only want BJs and not be attracted to vaginal sex ? 

Women like you get picked up, slammed on a wall and pounded vaginally until they are silly or sound like they are in an exorcism.... For doing the things you do.... My man sounds like he likes men..... Which is cool for him but he should not be hiding it..... I mean who jacks off in the cold shower ? With hot *****? WHO.!?!?

Lol


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

Godot said:


> . He actually had his first BJ at 15, from a male friend, not dreaming he would be asked to return the favor, and did, but he was very young and never repeated it. Hated it, but felt obligated. (Funny how he won't return the favor with me, but assures me he is "willing" to. ) He did have a guy who would give him weed and BJs drive him around like they were just friends at around 17, but he was never asked to return the favor. He wasn't with a woman until he was 19, and has never had sex with a man. He has even had a male friend literally beg to give him a BJ, while the friend's pregnant wife was at the store, as an adult. He turned him down, but they are Facebook friends, and have known each other since the 7th grade. They never bring it up, though, he says he never think about it with guys, and actually had forgotten about it until the guy brought it up.
> 
> I found that out when I caught him with a fake email account, from which he was asking people if they were into BJ's, if they swallowed or liked facials, how old they were when they gave their first one, whose idea was it, did they enjoy it... To be clear, he was asking females, and not getting any who would talk about it, so when I guy chimed in and talked about it, he was resistant and made it clear he only wanted to talk to women, but told him that he had guys give him BJ's in the past... Then asked the dude if spit or swallowed... :scratchhead:
> 
> ...


He sounds confused. Is a straight guy going to want to touch another guy sexually, either giving or receiving? I think not.


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## daffodilly (Oct 3, 2011)

Counterfit said:


> Fact: The original poster is overweight.
> Fact: The original poster has three dependent children.
> Fact: Her husband is thin, with no children.
> My Opinion: The original poster is damn lucky to have found a man to marry her considering her "liabilities".
> ...


FACT: Looking at your posting history it seems you go out of you way to seek threads where you can post some biting, insulting, belittling remark on the poster. I feel sad for you, you must not have "earned your happiness" yet.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

Just like some men are gay some are also bisexual. Some people (both genders) just do not have a strong gender association with sex.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

#1. Right off the top the number one thing is his general gayness. Straight guys don't get blown by other guys.
#2. Grass lowers testosterone, which means he has no desire or sexual aggression, and physically makes for a soft erection. I suspect he's always had low testosterone.
#3. Porn does what porn does, through a number of mechanisms, none of which make for good sex with a live woman.
#4. He has no animal attraction for you. At some point, he realized he needed a mother to give him direction and he found her in you.

I have had clients (plus myself) who were able to change their sex lives drastically by getting in shape. I could recommend that, but I don't think it would work with your H. He's not really interested in real sex.


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## Godot (Feb 21, 2014)

Machiavelli said:


> #1. Right off the top the number one thing is his general gayness. Straight guys don't get blown by other guys.
> #2. Grass lowers testosterone, which means he has no desire or sexual aggression, and physically makes for a soft erection. I suspect he's always had low testosterone.
> #3. Porn does what porn does, through a number of mechanisms, none of which make for good sex with a live woman.
> #4. He has no animal attraction for you. At some point, he realized he needed a mother to give him direction and he found her in you.
> ...


#1. To be fair, he was 15 at the time he blew someone, and it was another 15 year old. He is 40 now. It was a long time ago, and it never happened again, and when he finally told me about it, he was as soft as a boiled noodle. (I checked) I don't get any blips on my gadar when we are together and talking or being sexual. I don't really think he is gay, he could have a streak of bisexuality, since he allowed other guys to blow him, but he turned other guys down who wanted to, as well. He is definitely seriously turned on by sex and by me, he just does the same things over and over. And his foreplay is terrible.

#2. He hasn't smoked weed in 7 years, he used to smoke all the time, but he is very active, he is big into skateboarding, works his butt off, and wants to have sex, enjoys sex, it just doesn't occur to him to initiate, if I don't initiate, he will just beat off. He gets rock hard, strong erections that still stand straight up. His way of initiating is to say he took a shower. Seriously. That is it. Or like 20 minutes ago, he says, "you coming to bed, baby?"

#3. He hasn't watched porn in several years, either. Maybe 5 years. He has no access to it. After he had a problem talking dirty to other women and watching porn on our family computer, it crashed, I got one for work that he doesn't have access to, and he is NEVER, EVER home alone. Like 1 time in 4 years. His whole thing is blow jobs. 

#4. He says he is "incredibly attracted" to me. He compliments and says he loves my softness, my skin, my breasts, my butt. He says he loves my muffin top, my waist, the small of my back, my neck, collar bones, shoulders... He tells me daily that I look so "cute", he loves my eyes, my mouth, my hair... He has a hard time not finishing too soon when we have PIV, he stays hard the whole time. He tells me during sex that my p**** feels so good, so hot, so tight, and he has to stop often and pull out to keep from finishing. And there is not a hard or masculine part of me. I couldn't be mistaken for a man in any way, shape or form. 

I won't argue about the mama part. I have tried giving him the pants in this relationship 100 times. I told him a couple months ago that I want to be tied up, blind folded, and just have things done to me. I don't want to be in control, I just want to feel.


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## Godot (Feb 21, 2014)

We had a long time in our relationship where he was having cyber affairs, and watching porn and jerking off daily, if not several times a day. He was having cyber sex at work, and jerking off in the bathroom at work. He was texting random numbers and old girlfriends. He was trying to meet up with people at the skate park, and telling them he could take a few hours of personal time from work, and meet up, but when we talked about it, (ei, when the sh!t hit the fan) he said he never had a physical affair. I don't believe him, but I can't prove he did. 

His reasoning was he was just stupid, selfish, but I do believe he has been harboring resentment for having to grow up. He has always been entirely selfish, and marrying me and supporting my family is the most selfless thing he has ever done. He was the type to get a candy bar when we stopped by the gas station and eat it in front of me and the kids, never asking if we wanted one, or offering a bite, or trying to hide it and hork it down later. It just didn't occur to him it was selfish. But when I said something, I wasn't nice about it. I had 3 kids under 7, and he just whips out this candy bar in front of my kids and starts wolfing it down. I said, "WTF? Youre just going to eat a candy bar in front of my kids, without offering them a bite? Or getting them one? That is hateful and selfish!" But I said it in front of his dad, so he seriously harbored resentment for MONTHS over it. And there has been other things like that, where he gets resentful, and I think he justified his actions because of it. 

Like he kept trying to get me to parallel park in this tiny spot, in a mini van, but he didn't have a license at the time to do it himself, on our honeymoon. We were having a great time before then, but I couldn't freaking do it, I tried 5 times, then yelled at him that I couldn't do it, and he was all sh!tty about it for the rest of our honeymoon. I found a week later he was sexting a 17 year old girl, saying he was 24, (he was 34) and showing pictures of his c*ck. When I confronted him, he brought up that parallel parking incident, as justification that he wasn't "feeling" the marriage and never should have married me and wanted a divorce, effing hated me, and all that drama. 

Now, the shoe is on the other foot, and I tell him I want a divorce and he refuses and says we can work it out. He is terrible at oral sex, and says he doesn't want me to do him because it isn't fair, but I really enjoy doing it, and that is seriously our only foreplay. If I don't blow him first, I can't get aroused and we have to use lube, and I often can't get off. 

We always did the same thing. Lay in bed, on his back, I "snuggle" and let my hand wander all over, then drift down to his erection, and then we kiss while I fondle him, then I blow him, and we have PIV. It is great, multiple orgasms. But with all the drama he has pulled, I need to feel desired by him. 

When he tries to give foreplay, it is bothersome and irritating and boring. Same scenario, every time. Wet, loud kisses (BARF) awkwardly stabbing his tongue too deep, or snatching away when I try to kiss him back like he is being a tease or something (??) Leaving a slug trail across my cheek to make loud slobber sounds next to my ear, and them breathe in it really hard and tickle all my little hairs by the side of my neck, and touch me so lightly on my leg that it tickles the bejeezus out of me and I have to scratch it. then it is a hard suck and a loud painful pop with his mouth on my nipple, then lick it a few times and suck it so lightly I can't feel it, or it itches. And completely ignore the other nipple (thank heavens), then drift slowly, making slobber sounds and wet marks down to my thighs, THEN GO BACK UP, FFS! Mess around the breasts for a few, then drift back down, new slime trail to the other side, THEN BACK UP! Repeat, ad nauseum. 

On the days he finally decides to put his mouth on me, it is wet, gooey and slurpy, licking what he should suck, sucking what he should lick, ignoring what needs attention, being too darn attentive to what has little to no feeling, not following though to the perineum, just stopping mid labia and going back up, but stopping before the clit. Then he makes the clit all irritated doing whatever it is he is doing. When he finally sticks a finger in, he will hold his finger in the wrong position and somehow rub my pee-hole and make that burn. 

Then, he will come up, take my hand and put it on his flaccid penis and move my hand to try to get me to stroke him. Or so subtly kneel beside my head (gee, you think he may want a BJ? IDK!!! It would be awful convenient for me to do it, with his crotch in my face like that...) 

And then, once he is semi erect, he fumbles and tries to force it into my pee-hole, the space between my inner and outer labia, my butt hole, or if he somehow finds the hole, he will shove that little flap of skin that joins the inner labia together or one or both of my inner labia inside me. And when he sees I am dry as the Sahara, he will grab the lube, and pump out like 5 freaking squirts, dripping the cold stuff all over my thighs, abdomen and MY SIDE of the bed, and stroke it on his c*ck for a few then shove it in. (ummm, the p**** is right down here, and could use a good stroking!) 

It is pathetic, and yes I have tried MANY MANY MANY times to try yo get him to do the right stuff, while preserving his fragile ego at the same time "Oooh, lower baby (all breathy) higher. Try this, baby. can I have 2 fingers, please? baby, that hurts. That hurts, lower. Just stop. " 

For 7 years. In the last 6 months I have resorted to "That effing hurts, NEVER do that again." "That is revolting, get the eff off me, and get me a effing towel, so I can wipe this slobber off my crotch. See that puddle on the sheets? ALL YOU! I am not aroused in the slightest." "can you please stop stabbing my pee-hole? I am not into that, and it effing hurts, and now I have to pee." 

I have bought how-to guides (She Comes First, and F***ing Right) and erotic novels where I highlight the sexy scenes that make me hot. He ignores them and does his annoying scene. I tell him exactly how I want it, and what to do, and he does it wrong, and it just isn't sexy to tell him what to do.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

He sucks in bed because all his experience at sex is receiving bj's and masturbating and watching porn and web cams and chasing men and women, but not actually having good, partnered sex.

Likely won't change, either. He's not going to put in the effort to become a good lover.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Godot:

how many girlfriends/female sexual partners did he have before you?


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## James2020 (Jun 4, 2014)

Having read your first post and a few other replies, as well as some other users's replies... I am getting a very odd sense about this entire dynamic. On the one hand, as luck as he is for you having such a high sex drive I also get a lot of sense of him being told what to do. Even when you may not think it's happening, it might be.

Question: is he older or younger than you? How much of an age difference if any?

I also get this sense that you are making a lot of excuses for him while at the same time being demanding. It's a very difficult thing to almost work with, because when people give advice then you get defensive, and when they scold him then you defend him... so it's kind of hard to get anywhere 

The whole blowjob thing is definitely unusual, I don't know of any 15 year old guys who were giving each other blowjobs... but anyway... maybe that's just something I was lucky to miss in my life.

The only real piece of advice I can give you is for you to give him a bit of distance/space and work on yourself. I know you said if you don't initiate then he won't, which I 100% understand and have experienced. But I also think that if you are super all over him all the time, he stops appreciating it. If you just take a step back, and really focus back on yourself and make yourself feel better and more desirable (because I got a sense from a few posts that you weren't feeling as confident as before) then perhaps that will light a spark for him. In general just being less accommodating for him might help turn the tables to where he needs to suddenly be the one who initiates, especially if he sees that you're taking care of yourself and perhaps he would even start to get a little jealous.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening Godot
That sounds miserable. Can you tell if he wants to be a good lover and is just completely clueless, or if he just doesn't care?

It sounds like he is trying, but is just exceptionally bad at it. Not sure what to suggest? Maybe watch some amateur porn with him that shows people who actually know what they are doing?


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## Godot (Feb 21, 2014)

nuclearnightmare said:


> Godot:
> 
> how many girlfriends/female sexual partners did he have before you?


Surprisingly enough, he has been with 27 women. Mostly one or two night stands. He has had 3 or 4 long term relationships.

I have been with 24 men, including one night stands, friends with benefits, and such. I have mostly been the pursuing party, and find it exciting to pursue. But with all our problems, I need to feel desired.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Godot (Feb 21, 2014)

James2020 said:


> Having read your first post and a few other replies, as well as some other users's replies... I am getting a very odd sense about this entire dynamic. On the one hand, as luck as he is for you having such a high sex drive I also get a lot of sense of him being told what to do. Even when you may not think it's happening, it might be.
> 
> Question: is he older or younger than you? How much of an age difference if any?
> 
> ...


I apologize if I miss any points, I am on my phone and it looks funny on here. 

I really do love him, we have problems, but he is a decent person, and we all have problems. I can't help but defend him, he is my husband, I can talk about him, but no one else better  

I have literally gone 3-4 weeks without initiating, and he never does. I even told him after why we weren't having sex. I told him how I laid there and dug holes in my palms with my nails to keep my hands off of him, because I was horny the whole time, and he says, "that sucks, I wish I knew." But then he does something really lame, and I jump his bones, and we go right back to normal. We have gone through this for several years now. I am a daily person, and I would really prefer to go twice, I like a quicky bent over the sink a couple times a week...I leave it up to him, and we go weeks at a time without sex. I turn into a raging b!itch. . I am flat out not fun to be around. I even get depressed. 

And he is beating off at work, in the shower, on the toilet, and in bed before I join him. He wants to have sex almost as much as I do, he just doesn't know how to initiate.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Godot (Feb 21, 2014)

Oh, he is 40 and I am 35. Much too old for this crap. We have been together 8 years. I stopped initiating every night about 6 yeas ago, and stpped giving steady BJ'S about 1 year ago. But I have tried stopping several times to see if he would initiate, and he wont. We have a dry spell of about 3 weeks or so before cave. I have started masturbating regularly but it just isn't the same.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Godot (Feb 21, 2014)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening Godot
> That sounds miserable. Can you tell if he wants to be a good lover and is just completely clueless, or if he just doesn't care?
> 
> It sounds like he is trying, but is just exceptionally bad at it. Not sure what to suggest? Maybe watch some amateur porn with him that shows people who actually know what they are doing?


He says he wants to be a better lover, but he feels stupid, and gets performance anxiety. But he does his whole routine, like seducing a timid virgin, while I lay flat on my back in bed. He never says a word, or does any build up to sex all day, and then when I am already tired he starts in on it. 

I am more straightforward about it. I reach out and grab a handful, and talk dirty. I would appreciate the same courtesy. All this fumbling about, tickling just doesn't do it for me. I like dark corners and under porches and back seats of cars and in sheds and pools. Flat on my back in bed is just boring. I need excitement. Grabbing my crotch and telling me how bad you want it is more up my alley.


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