# Oral sex and foreplay



## ipad (Mar 4, 2017)

So...how to write this without offending anyone (as has happened on other forums). My wife enjoys receiving and giving oral sex, as do I. But, when it comes to foreplay, touching and/or massaging her 'down there' is an absolute no go. If I try to penetrate her with a finger (no matter how gentle), she immediately grabs my hand and says 'no'. I cannot reconcile her demand for oral sex, but her aversion to me touching or massaging her in the same place. I've tried to discuss it with her, but she is very reluctant to talk about it. The most I've gotten is that my hand could be dirty, or that I'll cut her. 

Suggestions? Insights?


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

ipad said:


> Suggestions? Insights?


I have read of instances where people can not tolerate being touched by someone else's hand because of having been sexually molested in that exact manner. 

That may or may not be what you are dealing with, but it gives you an idea of at least one possibility.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Yes...Stop touching her there, as she requested.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

There could be any number of problems with digital insertion, right down to your skin oils being irritating to her vaginal tissues. Since she already likes oral, why not use your tongue to **** her. I harden mine and insert it. It ususally is met with a very positive response. Have you not asked what her objection is?


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## ipad (Mar 4, 2017)

Yes, on a number of occasions I have asked her what the objection was. If she responded at all, I'd get a terse answer: "your hands are dirty" or "you'll cut me". Oddly, I get the dirty hands answer even in the shower. Mistakenly, I thought over time she would get over this. For instance, I thought being gentle and understanding along with her willingness to allow me to pleasure her in a way that I find highly erotic we could get past this. That has not been the case.

Her unwillingness to talk about or even work on this is creating a wedge in the relationship, at least on my part. Furthermore, I find this extremely frustrating since I have done many things for her (related to sex and otherwise) to make her happy. She will not talk to therapist about this, with or without me there. 

One person mentioned sexual molestation in the past. Yes, anything is possible, but I highly doubt it.


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## urf (Feb 18, 2017)

How old are both of you and how long have you been together?


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## ipad (Mar 4, 2017)

urf said:


> How old are both of you and how long have you been together?


Me 47, she 42. We've been together for six years, married two.


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## urf (Feb 18, 2017)

From your description there does not appear to be any "deal breakers" in there. I guess most people have to adjust their expectations to the realities of participating in a relationship with another fully formed human being rather than a fantasy. That does not mean you should'n't work towards getting every desire within the relationship fulfilled, rather know it will take time to make even small progress towards a mutual agreement on what you can and can't do.

It comes down to "pick your battles".


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## ipad (Mar 4, 2017)

She likes to stroke me when I'm flaccid and watch get me hard. One time I asked her to describe for me how it felt for her to get me hard as she was doing it. She went into great detail as to how it was making her wet, made her nipples tingle, got her excited with all sorts of sexual positions running through her mind, etc. At the point I became fully erect, I looked at her said, "you are denying me the very same thing you find so exciting". Needless to say we didn't have sex after that, but I tried to make my point. Saddly, Urf, this is becoming a deal breaker.


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## Suspect (Jan 12, 2016)

Is your profession manual labor? An instance where your hands fingers could be to rough and painful no matter what you do the hands are rough. As far as the dirty part of they are stained from the type of work then they always appear dirty and the finger nails. Of they are dirty then the hand is also.


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## ipad (Mar 4, 2017)

Suspect said:


> Is your profession manual labor? An instance where your hands fingers could be to rough and painful no matter what you do the hands are rough. As far as the dirty part of they are stained from the type of work then they always appear dirty and the finger nails. Of they are dirty then the hand is also.


I'm a software engineer. My hands are smooth and clean.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

ipad said:


> I'm a software engineer. My hands are smooth and clean.


What if you are wearing a latex glove, does that help her become more comfortable with the idea?

Perhaps she once had a bad infection or something and was traumatized by that and developed somewhat of a germaphobia thinking it was caused by a transfer from her or someone else's hand.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

If she doesn't like being touched like that, then just don't do it. There's no reason to convince her, if she enjoys others things better.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Have you thought of incorporating a small vibrator that can be inserted? It is possible during her sexual past that she was scratched by an errant fingernail or a former lover's hygiene was not up to snuff and as a result she got an infection


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## urf (Feb 18, 2017)

ipad said:


> She likes to stroke me when I'm flaccid and watch get me hard. One time I asked her to describe for me how it felt for her to get me hard as she was doing it. She went into great detail as to how it was making her wet, made her nipples tingle, got her excited with all sorts of sexual positions running through her mind, etc. At the point I became fully erect, I looked at her said, "you are denying me the very same thing you find so exciting". Needless to say we didn't have sex after that, but I tried to make my point. Saddly, Urf, this is becoming a deal breaker.


*I have heard this described as the "tissue issue". Both are holding onto one end of the tissue afraid to pull too hard lest it tear. The tissue is a surrogate for something else.

If I were a guessing man I would guess it's the 100% factor. How can you love me if you do not give me 100% of yourself? The problem with that thinking is that there is always another day and another issue. 

Consider anal sex. It is an important fantasy for some men and a dam uncomfortable reality for some women. 

I think you have a situation that needs to be addressed before it metastasizes. Find someone who can redirect your dissatisfaction on this issue to the underlying root cause.


*


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

ipad said:


> Suspect said:
> 
> 
> > Is your profession manual labor? An instance where your hands fingers could be to rough and painful no matter what you do the hands are rough. As far as the dirty part of they are stained from the type of work then they always appear dirty and the finger nails. Of they are dirty then the hand is also.
> ...


Something about germs under your fingernails, maybe, or the length and shape of them? Start getting professional manicures? Is she OCD about cleanliness in other settings?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*I think she needs to visit a sex therapist! It greatly seems that she has some underlying sexual issues that need to be quickly and logically resolved!*


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

I could give you a million reasons why your wife doesn't like that, but I could be wrong on every count. 
If you are feeling like this could be a deal breaker and it would cause you to leave, then tell her this and maybe she can tell you why she doesn't like it.

Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

It could be some deep seated psychological problem. She was molested, or was beaten as a child for touching herself with her "dirty hands".

It could be a very practical concern about your nails having sharp edges, dirt under the fingernails, or generally not being as clean as you think.

It could just be that she doesn't like it. No great hangups, she just dislikes the sensation.

Do you know of she masturbates with her fingers?


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

ipad said:


> Yes, on a number of occasions I have asked her what the objection was. If she responded at all, I'd get a terse answer: "your hands are dirty" or "you'll cut me".


My 2 cents after having been married for 45 years. 

1. My wife has on ocassion complained about my fingernails scratching very sensitive skin. Talk to her and work n filing your fingernails smooth.

2. Has she had any history of Urinary Tract Infections? If so she could be afraid of any insertion bringing bacteria inside her.

The best thing to do is tell her (outside the bedroom) that you want to understand her concerns and fears. The listen to what she says.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

The tissue is so sensitive. If you have a rough masculine hand it probably hurts. For me... I much Prefer touching over my underwear. And no touching me directly unless I'm wet. And it's better to start at the base where it's more wet, and work your way up.


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## hifromme67 (Oct 30, 2016)

If someone says no, stop or I don't want or like it, there should be no need to continue to ask or pressure. We have a right to boundaries for our bodies. Just enjoy her and the things she does want.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

hifromme67 said:


> If someone says no, stop or I don't want or like it, there should be no need to continue to ask or pressure. We have a right to boundaries for our bodies. Just enjoy her and the things she does want.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah, this.

If there's a deep-seeded reason for her to not enjoy this, that's her prerogative. While we all wish our partners would be 100% open with us about everything, that's just simply not going to happen.

It could also be, as she's already told you, a simple case of not liking it, period. Perhaps she doesn't know _exactly_ why she doesn't like it - she just doesn't.

Look, my wife WILL NOT give me oral sex on it's own, period, full stop. As part of sex or foreplay - absolutely. Sometimes to completion. She swallows. She gets right into it. If she's determined to finish me this way, she won't let me stop her.

She's also told me that she unequivocally hates giving BJ's. I've tried to reconcile this by saying "but, but, but...!" and have yet to receive a logical answer.

Because one doesn't exist.

It's her prerogative to give me BJ's as part of sex or foreplay, but to HATE them at any other time.

AFAIC, perhaps my wife has had bad experiences with standalone BJ's in the past, and therefore despises them now. Maybe she had a very insistent boyfriend who expected this sort of thing from her on a regular basis.

More likely it's because she's extremely responsive desire. Once we get going, anything goes. Outside of that time, she won't even talk about sex. It's that so-called 'light switch' that responsive desire people seem to have. When the switch is 'on', anything is on the table - because she's getting hers, too.

People who are not responsive desire (and who don't have 'hang ups') are far more willing to give and receive sexual favors with no return.

Long story short, your wife doesn't like to be manually touched down there. If there's an underlying reason for it, it's not your place to coax it out of her. It's her prerogative to keep that to herself, if she chooses. It's not our job to fix people, or to normalize them. It's not my job, or my business, to get a definitive answer as to why my wife won't give me standalone BJ's, yet give them like a pro at any other time.

What we need to do more of, as couples, is to respect our partners likes and dislikes and leave them alone about these sorts of things. When we start questioning their reasons, that makes them feel as though they're broken, or not normal. I've learned this the hard way, unfortunately.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

urf said:


> *Consider anal sex. It is an important fantasy for some men and a dam uncomfortable reality for some women.*


Yes, this utterly moronic and imbecilic suggestion is your magic answer to everything, OP.

This is exactly why I would never trust a sexual issue to some internet message board - the supposedly adult mouth-breathing fools who've never evolved and write offensive garbage like this. Must be pretty cold down in mom's basement.


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## Phil Anders (Jun 24, 2015)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Yes, this utterly moronic and imbecilic suggestion is your magic answer to everything, OP.
> 
> This is exactly why I would never trust a sexual issue to some internet message board - the supposedly adult mouth-breathing fools who've never evolved and write offensive garbage like this. Must be pretty cold down in mom's basement.


She's still got what? A Texas-sized chip on her shoulder? The person you're quoting isn't the OP. What is it about urf's analogy that prompts such hostility?


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## Phil Anders (Jun 24, 2015)

The refusal to discuss is probably more of a stumbling block & intimacy killer than the aversion itself. Someone has a boundary, fine. But if she won't be honest with me & herself about it & make a good faith effort to put me in the picture, even if only to say "I've thought long & hard about it & frankly don't know why it turns me off," then I have a hard time picturing her as a life partner.


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

I have not penetrated my wife's vagina for longer than we can remember in our 44 year marriage. Our best guess is 20 years. The reasons are due to medical issues. Like you, I cannot even insert a finger. Besides many surgeries, she is prone to yeast infections very easily and avoiding PIV sex has helped that. This is one of the reasons she enjoys sex with women. With me, she feels guilty that we cannot have intercourse, but with her girlfriend that is not an issue. It does not bother me since I prefer oral sex anyway. I find it more intimate. It pleases more of my senses which turns me on a lot more than PIV sex does. We did have lots of intercoure for the first 24 years of our marriage, but after finding out we are both sterile and she had too much scar tissue to make PIV sex comfortable, I agreed to forgo it. She will let me have intercourse if I asked, because that is the kind of wife she is, but I have no wish to hurt her or even make it an uncomfortable experience for her.

As we say, a great orgasm is a great orgasm no matter how you get it.


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## DonaldDuck666 (Feb 20, 2017)

Her terse reactions seem like it's a trigger for something bad in the past.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

I'm *guessing* that she interpreted Urfs statement to mean "consider performing anal sex" rather than "ponder how anal sex relates to this situation". Either could be inferred from the statement.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Dirty finger(nails). My W hates them. However, if clean no aversion to fingering. Getting cut...nails again. If your W does not like any of it don't do it.


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## drifter777 (Nov 25, 2013)

Have you tried to slip a finger in her while your eating her out? As she closes in on orgasm you should be able to get your thumb in her at least a little way. Don't push it (literally) and don't talk about it. If she doesn't freak just make it part of your oral thing. At first I would definitely wait until she was just about to cum. If she gets mad you have a great excuse in that it's usually so wet & slippery down there by that time that you can legitimately say it just "slipped in". 

TBH - I don't think it would bother me as long as she liked sex in general and everything else was good for her.


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## Phil Anders (Jun 24, 2015)

Fozzy said:


> I'm *guessing* that she interpreted Urfs statement to mean "consider performing anal sex" rather than "ponder how anal sex relates to this situation". Either could be inferred from the statement.


I expect you're right; although the description of anal as "damned uncomfortable for some women" should be a major clue that urf isn't recommending it as a panacea.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Clit is very sensitive. A finger might be way too rough for it. Tongue is much more gentle.
Is it possible you go there too early on in foreplay? What happens when you try using your hands just before she orgasms? (When she's already very warmed up).


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

She's likely had yeast infections or UTIs from grubby hands in the past. She's likely had an infection from being cut inside by a jagged fingernail in the past. 

I've had both happen in the past and they're unpleasant enough to make you overly concerned about them happening again. 

Wash your hands with soap & water before you touch her. Let her SEE you do this. Clean dirt from your nails, keep them clipped and filed down. 

It's not a lot to ask to bring some comfort and ease of mind to your spouse.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Yeswecan said:


> Dirty finger(nails). My W hates them. However, if clean no aversion to fingering. Getting cut...nails again. If your W does not like any of it don't do it.


* Provided that her H/SO either has fingernails that are as long and pointed as Esmeralda, or are as dirty and filthy as the Roto-Rooter man, then just who in the hell could possibly blame her for being the least bit upset about having that happen to her?*


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## urf (Feb 18, 2017)

Phil Anders said:


> I expect you're right; although the description of anal as "damned uncomfortable for some women" should be a major clue that urf isn't recommending it as a panacea.


Let me be clear. I certainly didn't state my thought in a way that was unambiguous the first time.

Anal sex is a wide spread fantasy for men. Most of the women I've met would not like it. The example was meant to say that not every woman likes what men, even men they love dearly, do to their bodies and they have every right to feel that way. Obvious huh?

Even the sex act has practical limitations. The OP said that the issue was becoming a deal breaker. My personal feeling is that is shallow. If all other aspects of the relationship are good then WTF. OTOH the heart wants what the heart wants.

The issue may be a cover for another problem which is as yet unrevealed to us here.

PS: Some means that not every woman is the same. There are those that are willing to try and those that enjoy it.


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## ipad (Mar 4, 2017)

I have been off the board for a couple of days and just read through the many replies. Thank you very much for your input. To answer some of your questions.

Yes, my hands are clean and fingernails trimmed. No calluses. I am a bit of a clean freak, so I know cleanliness couldn't possibly be an issue. 

I have tried to slowly insert one finger while licking her, but on each attempt she jumped up and said 'No!'. Trust me, it was a real mood killer. 

I've tried to slowly massage her and let her watch me insert the tip of my finger, but she yanks my hand away. 

One time I asked her to finger herself while I was licking her. She did it for about five seconds, stopped, and said she hated it.

Some respondents have dogged me for saying this is turning into a deal breaker, so to those I ask, why should I endure of life of unsatisfactory sex? I miss the enormous turn on I get from feeling the warmth and wetness of a vagina: massaging that one particular place that makes a woman melt and become crazy with passion. I don't see how that is too big of an ask.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

ipad said:


> Some respondents have dogged me for saying this is turning into a deal breaker, so to those I ask, why should I endure of life of unsatisfactory sex? I miss the enormous turn on I get from feeling the warmth and wetness of a vagina: massaging that one particular place that makes a woman melt and become crazy with passion. I don't see how that is too big of an ask.


It's not, but it does beg the question of why you married her when you must have known she was like this already. People do not fundamentally change and as much as I can see the frustration of the situation and the desire for you to want her to just enjoy herself, it is unfair of you to assume she's going to change by you convincing yourself you can coax her to change.

There could be any number of reasons why she doesn't like it (I was just offering a couple from my own experience). She will likely get upset if you start to pry into her reasons. If she has other areas she appreciates having stimulated, maybe focus on these. There are many erogenous zones on the human body.

And if it is truly a deal-breaker to you, and the rest of the marriage isn't too great, I'd say let her go and make darn sure the next woman in your life can melt, preferably before you marry her.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

ipad said:


> I have been off the board for a couple of days and just read through the many replies. Thank you very much for your input. To answer some of your questions.
> 
> Yes, my hands are clean and fingernails trimmed. No calluses. I am a bit of a clean freak, so I know cleanliness couldn't possibly be an issue.
> 
> ...


It seems it is about your pleasure and not hers. It clearly does not make her melt. Find something else that does make her melt.


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## urf (Feb 18, 2017)

ipad said:


> while I was licking her. She did it for about five seconds, stopped, and said she hated it.
> 
> Some respondents have dogged me for saying this is turning into a deal breaker, so to those I ask, why should I endure of life of unsatisfactory sex? I miss the enormous turn on I get from feeling the warmth and wetness of a vagina: massaging that one particular place that makes a woman melt and become crazy with passion. I don't see how that is too big of an ask.


Dude, does the word "narcissism" hold any meaning for you? You are not wrong for wanting a complete and satisfying marriage relationship which includes 100% fulfilling sexual experiences but 99% is not bad either.

There are layers and layers of unexplored interactions going on inside you head. What you have expressed here is just the surface. Nobody but nobody throws away a marriage over this. You need to examine this in the safety of a therapists office.

Have you told her that you are gone if she won't let you finger her?

Said like that it sounds ludicrous. I'm telling you there is something else going on that you have not thought about. She is resisting giving herself 100% to you and she has her reasons too. The challenge is discover those root causes of disaffection before they become intractable. Get help. Here you can talk. In the office is where you do the work.


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## urf (Feb 18, 2017)

I am thinking of getting a divorce because my wife won't let me touch her left ear.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

I understand something like this being a reason to abandon a relationship.

When I was dating my wife, first having sex with her, I told her she could not impose boundaries if she wanted me. Of course, I did get that out of the way well before we married.

I have to wonder why you waited so long to address this. I would have broken off after the third date, amicably, and I would have wished her well, but I would have known it couldn't work.

And from the description I suspect the woman in question won't allow the Original Poster to massage her clitoris, either.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Does her not wanting you to do that make you want to do it more? It sounds like aside from her not liking that, your sex life is good (no complaints about frequency or other things).

There could be a concrete reason, like molestation, fear of being hurt (as she claims), some past experience prior to you that caused an aversion. Or, it could be, she just does not like it and doesn't know why. Some people love having their ears licked and sucked, some people are creeped out by it. Who knows why?

Just remember the purpose of foreplay and sex is to bring pleasure to both parties. There are a lot of activities to pick from. It seems you could find things you both enjoy. You both enjoy her making you hard. You both do not enjoy you fingering her. If you keep pushing her she's likely to develop a sexual aversion.

If you think there is a specific reason she is not telling you, have you tried bringing it up when you are NOT having foreplay? That little stunt you pulled about getting her to tell you how turned on she was making you hard and then flipping it around on her? Not cool dude. I understand your desire to make her understand, but her understanding that it would turn you on to do it will not magically make it tolerable for her to be touched in that specific way. It's just going to make her feel inadequate and harassed.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

@WorkingWife: Not fun, but probably the only way to get her to understand how much discomfort she is causing him. Which is likely the only thing that will motivate her to talk about whatever makes her uncomfortable to be touched in that spot. If she doesn't feel guilty about making him feel bad, she won't be motivated to overcome her discomfort from talking about her past. Clearly, her very understandable first reaction to being asked about it is: "it hurts me to even think about that, much less talk about it. Why are you asking me about that? Can't you just leave it alone?" Only by giving her a glimpse of HIS pain can he expect her to realize why he cannot "just leave it alone".


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

ipad said:


> So...how to write this without offending anyone (as has happened on other forums). My wife enjoys receiving and giving oral sex, as do I. But, when it comes to foreplay, touching and/or massaging her 'down there' is an absolute no go. If I try to penetrate her with a finger (no matter how gentle), she immediately grabs my hand and says 'no'. I cannot reconcile her demand for oral sex, but her aversion to me touching or massaging her in the same place. I've tried to discuss it with her, but she is very reluctant to talk about it. The most I've gotten is that my hand could be dirty, or that I'll cut her.
> 
> Suggestions? Insights?


Well, you've tried - in your way - the obvious. Ask what's up. Maybe ask a different way. Is it painful? Overstimulated?

FWIW, the women in my past did not want direct contact down there as any sort of first step. They needed a warm up. Caress the lower abdomen first, then inner thighs, brush the hand across the pubic mound...not until she's really excited did she want any direct contact by finger. Oral was often more comfortable for them...saliva has the right PH balance for sensitive tissues. By comparison, fingers are salty and may well sting. However, I've also known two who said any direct contact was a mix of uncomfortable/makes me want to pee/painful/overstimulated.

So...easy answer #2 - do as she requests.

To my mind, this is a small problem...there are women (and men) who either dislike orgasms or dislike the notion that someone else helps them get there - feelings of loss of control. Been with a couple of them, can't figure out a way around it. And I like the idea of pleasing my partner.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Holdingontoit said:


> @WorkingWife: Not fun, but probably the only way to get her to understand how much discomfort she is causing him. Which is likely the only thing that will motivate her to talk about whatever makes her uncomfortable to be touched in that spot. If she doesn't feel guilty about making him feel bad, she won't be motivated to overcome her discomfort from talking about her past. Clearly, her very understandable first reaction to being asked about it is: "it hurts me to even think about that, much less talk about it. Why are you asking me about that? Can't you just leave it alone?" Only by giving her a glimpse of HIS pain can he expect her to realize why he cannot "just leave it alone".


I see what you're saying. But when I picture that event from her perspective - here she is making herself vulnerable telling him how turning him on turns her on, and she's thinking they're in the middle of an intimate sexual moment, and then BAM - turns out he's just giving her a trick question to teach her a lesson. Wow, I'd be beyond furious and hurt and probably never want to get him hard again.

From his perspective, I can see the frustration of not knowing the real reason she doesn't like that. Assuming there is a "reason" that she can articulate, she's withholding part of herself from her husband by refusing to let him in. That's very hurtful and frustrating from his point of view. 
Regardless, there is a difference between her enjoying doing something that *does* turn him on that also turns her on, and him wanting her to *let him *do something that *she does not like* just because it turns him on. They are *not *the same.

I could be wrong, but from the original post, I sense the real problem is feeling like she's not being open/honest with him. He doesn't believe the reasons she gives him, and as a woman, I'm quite skeptical of her reasons too. That's why I think talking about it when not having sex would be the best option.

If his goal is to just get her to let him do it because he wants to even though she can't stand it, well, I don't think that's going to end well for either of them. He's becoming obsessed with the fact that she won't let him and, I believe, losing perspective that she also has a point of view here.

Ha - I just had a mental image of her jamming a sharp fingernail in his ass during foreplay, him protesting, and then her saying "now you can understand the fear I feel when you use your fingers on me."


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

WorkingWife said:


> Ha - I just had a mental image of her jamming a sharp fingernail in his ass during foreplay, him protesting, and then her saying "now you can understand the fear I feel when you use your fingers on me."


I get the impression you view that as something terrible if she did it. Actually, I think it would be helpful. Because it might get them talking. If he said "oww, that hurts. If my touching your clit feels like that, then I understand why you don't want me to do it. But if you file your fingernails, you can touch me anywhere. Can we discuss what I could do so that me touching your clit doesn't hurt that much?
" Anything that gets her opening up on why (to the extent she knows) it hurts when he touches her clit would, despite immediate pain, be a "good thing" in the long run. Most women don't feel pain when someone lovingly touches their clit, and if she does, then there may be something medically or psychologically wrong. And addressing that medical or psychological issue would help her, her husband and their marriage.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

She didn't say it was pain. 

She likes oral. She just doesn't like manual stimulation in the same place. I don't understand the big deal. Maybe there isn't anything to articulate, and she she just doesn't like it. I know people who can't stand to have their ears and neck licked, but kisses are fine. People who don't like their breasts fondled, but like them kissed or licked.

Big deal out of someone's touch preference. Oral yes, manual no. No big deal.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Anything is a big deal if it bothers one of the people in the relationship. There can never be a successful resolution if one or the other person trivializes the issue.

If one of the people in a relationship decides something is a problem, regardless which one, and regardless how trivial it seems to all these internet jockeys, it's a problem. And once one of them decides they are unsatisfied it is important for the other person in the relationship to take the issue seriously if there is to be progress toward a satisfactory resolution.

The idea people can just say oh how trivial you should just forget about it and that is somehow useful is sad.

I suppose the battle lines would have been drawn differently if it had been a wife complaining about an odd constraint imposed by a husband. That's the sort of prejudice I see here, anyway.

Too bad there's not more genuine interest in actually trying to help rather than ridicule.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

WilliamM said:


> Anything is a big deal if it bothers one of the people in the relationship. There can never be a successful resolution if one or the other person trivializes the issue.
> 
> If one of the people in a relationship decides something is a problem, regardless which one, and regardless how trivial it seems to all these internet jockeys, it's a problem. And once one of them decides they are unsatisfied it is important for the other person in the relationship to take the issue seriously if there is to be progress toward a satisfactory resolution.
> 
> ...


We're talking about an area of his wife's body she LIKES touched with his mouth and tongue, just not hands. She can't MAKE that area like to be touched manually any more then I can grow to like mayonnaise. This is helping.... Helping the OP put this in perspective. 

Talk about trying to control the types of sexual touch someone likes or dislikes, WTF...


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Holdingontoit said:


> I get the impression you view that as something terrible if she did it. Actually, I think it would be helpful. Because it might get them talking. If he said "oww, that hurts. If my touching your clit feels like that, then I understand why you don't want me to do it. But if you file your fingernails, you can touch me anywhere. Can we discuss what I could do so that me touching your clit doesn't hurt that much?
> " Anything that gets her opening up on why (to the extent she knows) it hurts when he touches her clit would, despite immediate pain, be a "good thing" in the long run. Most women don't feel pain when someone lovingly touches their clit, and if she does, then there may be something medically or psychologically wrong. And addressing that medical or psychological issue would help her, her husband and their marriage.


"Terrible" is a strong word. Like I said, I understand the instinct that drove him to do that. 

What I view as a *mistake* is trying to "teach your spouse a lesson" in order to get your way. I would be very surprised if a productive conversation ever resulted from someone "tricking" their partner into seeing the superiority of their point of view.

I remember once I was dating a guy and we were with some friends at the fair at night (so it was a little dark). I was with a group of about 5 and I was pushing one of the girl's baby stroller. They were all looking at something in the same booth. I turned my head to look too and took my hand off the stroller (that was in the middle of all of us) for maybe 5, 10 seconds. 

I've never had a baby so I don't know if that was crazy negligent or not, I just wasn't thinking. Well my date saw that and quickly moved the stroller away to "teach me a lesson" on child care. I turned back and that stroller was gone and the panic I felt? And he thought it was his job to "teach me what it would feel like" if I lost someone's baby at the fair? WTF. Let's just say I did not appreciate the "lesson" and the resulting conversation was not productive.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

They really should be seeing a marriage counselor. The wife is refusing to even discuss the issue and refuses to go to counseling.

I might think there is little to help him, but I certainly think ridicule won't help.

I do think she should be willing to go to counseling. I think any spouse, either male or female, should be willing to go to counseling and talk about any issue at all if their Significant Other requests it. Any issue, and I mean anything. If my wife wants me to go to a counselor to talk about how loudly I blink my eyes, I will go.

Constantly belittling the OP seems to be a general idea which is catching on, though.


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