# Military Infidelity



## Bouncingbull (Jun 10, 2017)

Hello, I have recently installed a spy app on my phone and unfortunately found out that my husband picked up some chick at the bar. I am unsure of how far it went, but I know that they did not go all the way due to him not having a condom but it was sad to hear the intent was there. He still talks with her and is facebook friends with her so who knows if this is a one time thing while drunk or this will go any further. Only time (i.e. within this next week) will tell. In addition, he told her that he wished that I was struck by lightning and die so he could do things to her. He will be back within a week. I am not sure of how to deal with this. I want to tell him that I know and yell at him now, but that is probably not the best move. The disgusting thing is that I tlod him that I had a nightmare and had that he cheated on me and I couldn't sleep (so it was partially true) but he put on a new face and acted too caring and concerned while assuring me that would never happen. He also over compensated by talking with me more often throughout the day. However, I have found no signs of regret on his own and with his friends. But the evidence is inconclusive about how he talked about any of this to his friends. I overheard them telling him that he disappeared that night and he shrugged it off but I was hard to tell what his response was. I want my marriage to work, but obviously he doesn't through this behavior and prefers to live a double life. So we are most likely facing divorce when he comes home. Is there a way to give him an ultimatum or should I just leave him? Any advice? He was supposed to be gone for 2 weeks and our son was in the hospial throughout most of it, so this is very heartbreaking, upsetting, and disappointing.

In addition, I am close to another spouse and also found out that her husband had a fling. I am unsure of what to do. We were supposed to hang out tonight but I am not sure if I should cancel. Should I ever tell her or at least wait until after my husband comes home and deal with our issue first before telling her? Or should I never tell her, although I am probably breaking some sort of sister code by not?


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Who is in the military, you or your husband? Are you active duty? Why the two week separation - training?

How many kids and how old? How long married?

Infidelity is rampant in military families because of physical separation and time away.

Not sure I would confide in your friend at this point. Sounds like she is dealing with her own problems.

We need a little more background, but as for a knee jerk reaction to what you have disclosed - find and talk to a good lawyer. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst. Know what your options are if you decide to leave him.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Is counselling available through the military?

I am thinking couple's counselling, plus individual.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Bouncingbull said:


> Hello, I have recently installed a spy app on my phone and unfortunately found out that my husband picked up some chick at the bar. I am unsure of how far it went, but I know that they did not go all the way due to him not having a condom but it was sad to hear the intent was there. He still talks with her and is facebook friends with her so who knows if this is a one time thing while drunk or this will go any further. Only time (i.e. within this next week) will tell. In addition, he told her that he wished that I was struck by lightning and die so he could do things to her. He will be back within a week. I am not sure of how to deal with this. I want to tell him that I know and yell at him now, but that is probably not the best move. The disgusting thing is that I tlod him that I had a nightmare and had that he cheated on me and I couldn't sleep (so it was partially true) but he put on a new face and acted too caring and concerned while assuring me that would never happen. He also over compensated by talking with me more often throughout the day. However, I have found no signs of regret on his own and with his friends. But the evidence is inconclusive about how he talked about any of this to his friends. I overheard them telling him that he disappeared that night and he shrugged it off but I was hard to tell what his response was. I want my marriage to work, but obviously he doesn't through this behavior and prefers to live a double life. So we are most likely facing divorce when he comes home. Is there a way to give him an ultimatum or should I just leave him? Any advice? He was supposed to be gone for 2 weeks and our son was in the hospial throughout most of it, so this is very heartbreaking, upsetting, and disappointing.
> 
> In addition, I am close to another spouse and also found out that her husband had a fling. I am unsure of what to do. We were supposed to hang out tonight but I am not sure if I should cancel. Should I ever tell her or at least wait until after my husband comes home and deal with our issue first before telling her? Or should I never tell her, although I am probably breaking some sort of sister code by not?


*Report or do not report all of the gory details to your CO! If you choose "the do not tell" scenario and the CO later finds out that you indeed knew about it, then woe be unto you!

The military takes an extremely dim appreciation of infidelity within its ranks and will take great strides in attempting to "crush one's nuts" in a court martial setting with brig time and loss of rank, benefits and privileges; as well as expulsion from the military being used most often as the pawn cards of choice!*


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

arbitrator said:


> *The military takes an extremely dim appreciation of infidelity within its ranks and will take great strides in attempting to m"crushing one's nuts" in a court martial setting with brig time and loss of rank, benefits and privileges being used most often as the pawn cards of choice!*


If only that was the case in the real world.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

BioFury said:


> If only that was the case in the real world.


*That's one of the things that I definitely admire about the military!*


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> Is counselling available through the military?
> 
> I am thinking couple's counselling, plus individual.


She can definitely go to counselling as a member of the military or the spouse of an active duty military member.

But it is a little soon for couples counselling when she has not even confronted him and does not know what his reaction will be.

I really think she should hold off on the confrontation until she gathers more evidence. This is probably not his first rodeo.

First step - consult attorney to see what options are and how to proceed with separation of divorce if that is what she wants. If she is open to R. knowledge of where she stands legally is a good thing. 

If his AP is also military, he just stuck his neck in the noose.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

TDSC60 said:


> She can definitely go to counselling as a member of the military or the spouse of an active duty military member.
> 
> But it is a little soon for couples counselling when she has not even confronted him and does not know what his reaction will be.
> 
> ...


Couple's Counselling only works if the cheater has acknowledged their cheating. So, yes, I agree, it is too soon.


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## Bouncingbull (Jun 10, 2017)

He is a reservist and gone for a short exercise. We have been married for 7 1/2 years and have a 4 year old son. I understand the military culture. I just thought that he was not like that. I was young, naive, and in love with him when we got married. I still love him which is why I am so hurt and why I am struggling with letting go of the marriage, which is what needs to happen. I have already spoken with a counselor briefly and will talk over this issue more on Tuesday. I have also already spoken with a lawyer. I am seeking mulitple opinions on this so I can do the right thing. Plus the issue with the friend is a tough one. But obviously I cannot tell her now since I need to confront my husband first. I am not sure if it is okay to hang out with her in this type of situation. I can stay quiet but I am obviously I am about to divorce from this group as well. Thank you.


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## Bouncingbull (Jun 10, 2017)

I have just read the rest of the replies. Everyone on this trip is eencouraging this behavior. Plus it it is not easy just to report. Yes they say that they frown upon it, but the culture actually frowns upon marriage. It is better to care for servicemembers to not have dependants in the military's eyes. I have approached him about counseling before when I had suspicions but no evidence. It only lasted a couple of sesdions before he refused to continue. I am hoping that he does counseling this time around but I highly doubt it. This will unfortunately end up ugly either way.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Being a reservist does change things a little. Is he an officer?

But you are right to think that a bunch of weekend warriors on a 2 week exercise see it as chance to go crazy and wild in a climate where running into someone they know is almost nil.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

You should find out exactly what happened, how far it went before you make your final decision.

challenge him with a lie detector test and see if he agrees.. No doubt he will try spinning this
and claim you are over reacting. His comment about you dying though so he can satisfy his weenie is disgusting and probably the nail in the coffin.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

It's just not a military culture. It just happens more often I think. 

I was in active duty and didn't cheat on my wife. I have also been on duty and caught two drunk Marines in the barracks. They had just arrived for the 6 month tour of duty in Japan. This happened on Friday night and by Monday to girl was trying to claim rape. They were both getting busted down in rank and lose of pay. That Friday night she kept saying how her husband would not forgive her. 

Thing is they might not have been caught if their Sargent wasn't trying to break in through the window to stop the two. He was wasted as well.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

So you had his cell phone rigged to record his conversations even when he was not on a call? Is that right?

Do you have the phone bill? Can you see all the calls and texts that have gone to/from his cell?

You cannot use any recording that you got using some recording software on his phone. It's most likely illegal to have done that. So you need to keep your source of info to yourself. That's going to make it hard for you to talk to anyone about this.

What you probably need to do is to keep quiet and use this info to lead to more information that is not gathered illegally. For example if he is calling and/or texting to some number a lot, it might be to that woman or some other woman. If he's out picking up women at bars then he's probably doing some things when he's local too.

If you think that you can hold your ground on this. You could tell him that someone sent you a voice recording. That you have it and do not know the source. But it's him and some woman. On it he is saying that he wishes that you would die. So that's it. End of your marriage. Then file and divorce him. If you, for example handed him a typed out transcript of the recording he will know that you did somehow hear the conversation. But you would have to not give him the recording or tell him how you got it.

If you know her name or have her phone number, you could call her and talk to her. You could tell her something like that your husband told you that he's having an affair with her. Then let her talk and see what she tells you. I did something like that and got all kinds of info. She might, of course, call him after that and they can take it underground.

If you confront him, he's going to lie or blame it on alcohol. Or some other lame excuse. How are you going to react to his denying it?


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## DepressedDiva (Mar 23, 2017)

MattMatt said:


> Is counselling available through the military?
> 
> I am thinking couple's counselling, plus individual.


I can testify that counseling through the military is a joke. Yes it is free, my spouse is in the Navy and we went to MC and IC through MWR fleet and family readiness and it was a awful. 

All the 'counselors' are social workers and not psychologists. The marriage counselor quit & told us we needed IC before we could continue MC. 

I went to IC for 2 months and they are all about reconciliation - I feel they are there for the sailors/soldiers and not the spouses imo 😠 so I quit going. My WH went for 3 months then stopped going & he got nowhere, then made excuses as to why he couldn't continue....

It's better to seek civilian counseling imo, good luck (((hugs)))


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

All the 'counseling' in the world isn't going to CHANGE what this piece of **** said about his wife - *that he wishes she'd get struck by lightening and DIE. *

I'll never understand this constant group-think mentality that 'therapy' is the magic cure for EVERYTHING.

It isn't.

The guy is a lying cheater who was looking to 'play' while away from home and was ONLY supposedly stopped by the lack of a condom; it certainly wasn't his integrity that stopped him.

And I'm also willing to bet this wasn't Prince Charming's *first* rodeo, either. I see in a subsequent post you DO mention you've suspected him in the past but never got the proof. That just pretty much confirms that he's a serial cheater. The type who takes advantage of any opportunity that falls in his lap and up until now, has been lucky enough to get away with it. Serial cheaters usually DO get away with more because they don't mire themselves into emotional affairs with one person. That requires a whole lot of time and effort and dedication and tons of lies and sneaking. That type of affair also leaves lots of possible evidence - emails, texts, notes, gifts, cards etc. that can get them caught. That's not the usual MO of your average serial cheater. They usually prefer to take advantage of a situation when it falls in their lap (or they make it happen). It's usually a one-shot deal and when it's over, both go on their merry ways and the cheater returns home and no one is the wiser.

Some people just feel justified in cheating because they want the sexual variety and think they deserve it. Some enjoy the chase and the conquer aspect. Some like the ego strokes they get from a woman 'wanting' them. And whether he uses condoms or not he can *still* bring home something you don't need or want. He obviously doesn't screen his partners if he's looking to screw around with someone he just met in a bar an hour or two earlier, so it's obvious he's been taking risks with YOUR sexual health for years. Again, it would be horribly naive to believe he's never cheated before. He has.

Go ahead and confront him. He'll just lie. He may even claim he did it to get back at you because he 'knew' you'd planted a spy app on his phone and he was teaching you a lesson. The ridiculous lies they come up with are actually hysterically funny. But don't expect him to admit all the _other_ skeletons he's got in his closet from the last 7+ years he's been married. You have a better chance of shaking hands with Jesus than you do of him admitting stuff from the past that you DON'T know about.

He's your typical serial cheating opportunist. There's nothing unique at ALL about him.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

People show you who they really are when you think you're not looking.

Your husband _is_ a remorseless philanderer.

Counseling will accomplish nothing more than teaching him how to better conceal his unsavory behavior.

Dump the chump.


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## Bouncingbull (Jun 10, 2017)

I will do a better reply later, but quick question. What ifI tell him that she contacted me on FB about them messing around in order to get me out of the picture? It is a lie. However, as much as I want to, it is probably a bad idea. What do you think?


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

DepressedDiva said:


> I can testify that counseling through the military is a joke. Yes it is free, my spouse is in the Navy and we went to MC and IC through MWR fleet and family readiness and it was a awful.
> 
> All the 'counselors' are social workers and not psychologists. The marriage counselor quit & told us we needed IC before we could continue MC.
> 
> ...


Good military counselors will know when they're in over their head and provide a civilian referral. Some services, or even individual units within a service, are more willing to do this than others. 

Do not be afraid to let the leadership at the mental health clinic know if you think their staff isn't up to snuff on your needs, and ask for a referral to someone who is.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Bouncingbull said:


> I am unsure of how far it went, but I know that they did not go all the way due to him not having a condom


Not necessarily so. That often doesn't stop people. And if he didn't, maybe she did. And there's a supermarket, bodega, drugstore or, in this case, BX/PX/Shoppette on every corner. 

Unless you heard specifically that they didn't do it rather than they just didn't have a condom at the moment, don't make any assumptions ... and take all the necessary precautions (i.e. get yourself tested for STDs).

I didn't see if you answered whether or not he is an officer. If he is, and she is enlisted, then that's fraternization, a dead serious career ender. Nice bit of leverage for you if you have evidence and are willing to use it.


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## Bouncingbull (Jun 10, 2017)

He is an NCO and she is some Polish chick.

May someone please answer my last question? I am afraid that I am going for that approach. Please tell me if that is wrong.


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## Bouncingbull (Jun 10, 2017)

She left when that happened. It probably went as far as a bj, but it was hard for me to personally listen to confirm. You are right, they may buy one and try again in the future before he leaves. It is too sickening, heartbreaking, and devestating.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Bouncingbull said:


> He is an NCO and she is some Polish chick.
> 
> May someone please answer my last question? I am afraid that I am going for that approach. Please tell me if that is wrong.


If you have what you believe to be credible evidence, by all means, yes, you not only should, but must tell the other spouse. She has EVERY RIGHT to know. You do her a horrible disservice by keeping this from her.


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## Bouncingbull (Jun 10, 2017)

It is not momentary since he is still talking to her. If he apologizes and works on re-establishing trust to work on the marriage, then that is fine. However, this has been going on for a long time whenever he leaves. I finally got suspicious the last time he was gone and just finally found out the ugly truth. A man does not love his wife if he intentionally does this everytime he leaves. Wishing me dead so he can make a baby with her (who is much less attractive) is f*cked up either way.


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## Bouncingbull (Jun 10, 2017)

Thank you for that answer. I needed that. I was actually was referring to a question that I have just asked from a previous reply. It was should I lie to him and tell him that she FB messaged me to tell me that they have been messing around and was letting me know for in order to take me out of the picture? It may be rash and stupid. I just don't want them hooking up again.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

MAJDEATH said:


> He wouldn't be the first guy to mess around while at AT.


That doesn't excuse it one iota.




MAJDEATH said:


> But does that mean he doesn't love his W? No. He had a momentary lapse while training for his country.


You make a couple of totally unfounded assumptions there. The evidence is very much to the contrary--especially the part about thinking _this isn't the first time_. Is it _possible _he loves her in spite of action that says otherwise. Maybe. But the only way to find out is to expose this and attack it head on. 

The injection of "while training for his country" is a pejorative red herring. It is clearly designed to cut this guy some slack which it appears he has not earned. It matters not one hoot what he was doing at the time or whether or not it was in the name of national defense. Infidelity is infidelity. Period. And remember, _he is a reservist_--on his once annually _two week drill_, not a full timer on a full year deployment. There are plenty of civilians who travel for work more than the typical reservist. (I'm a 22 year vet, so I know of what I speak here)

And what good is "love" if it isn't strong enough to secure the bonds of holy matrimony? 




MAJDEATH said:


> You can drop all this talk about divorce and counseling. What makes you so great?


Well, that's for OP to decide based on her experience before and since.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Bouncingbull said:


> He is an NCO and she is some Polish chick.
> 
> May someone please answer my last question? I am afraid that I am going for that approach. Please tell me if that is wrong.


So he was in Poland?


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## Bouncingbull (Jun 10, 2017)

He still is for the next week. I am trying to keep it together but I am afraid that I cannot.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

MAJDEATH said:


> He wouldn't be the first guy to mess around while at AT. But does that mean he doesn't love his W? No. He had a momentary lapse while training for his country. You can drop all this talk about divorce and counseling. What makes you so great?


Majdeath, you are joking right? Look where that kind of thinking got you in the marriage, let the cheater have a second chance, they were lonely blah blah blah, please do not hoist that kind of misery onto this poor young woman. Her WH is a cheating philanderer, this is not the first time nor will it be the last.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

MAJDEATH said:


> He wouldn't be the first guy to mess around while at AT. But does that mean he doesn't love his W? No. He had a momentary lapse while training for his country. You can drop all this talk about divorce and counseling. What makes you so great?


Coming from the man who must be the most cheated on,***** whipped, cuckolded individual I have ever heard of this is priceless.It may come as news to you but a lot of people don't like sharing their spouses with anyone who happens to catch their eye.
You giving advice to anyone about marriage is a ****in joke.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MAJDEATH said:


> He wouldn't be the first guy to mess around while at AT. But does that mean he doesn't love his W? No. He had a momentary lapse while training for his country. You can drop all this talk about divorce and counseling. What makes you so great?


OMG, this is a horrible post. The only reason I'm not deleting it is that I'm sure that the OP has already seen it.

While you might think that AT is a good time men to get a free pass on cheating, it's not.

What makes her so great? She deserves the same right to decide that she does not want to be marriage to a cheating low life as any other person who is cheated on.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Bouncingbull said:


> I will do a better reply later, but quick question. What ifI tell him that she contacted me on FB about them messing around in order to get me out of the picture? It is a lie. However, as much as I want to, it is probably a bad idea. What do you think?


Are you asking us if you should make up the lie that the polish chick found you on facebook to tell you that they messed around because she was trying to break you and your husband up?

No, that is a lie that is too easy for him to prove wrong... for example, "show me her post on facebook". There would be nothing that you could show him.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Bouncingbull said:


> It is not momentary since he is still talking to her. If he apologizes and works on re-establishing trust to work on the marriage, then that is fine. However, this has been going on for a long time whenever he leaves. I finally got suspicious the last time he was gone and just finally found out the ugly truth. A man does not love his wife if he intentionally does this everytime he leaves. Wishing me dead so he can make a baby with her (who is much less attractive) is f*cked up either way.


What is there to re-establish? You say that he's been cheating every time he goes on a trip like this.

In order for him to reestablish trust, he would have to let you know where he is very minute that he is away. And he's going to have to show you where he is, who he is with, etc. Short of that you will not be able to build any trust.

He cannot rebuild what was never there.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Bouncingbull said:


> Thank you for that answer. I needed that. I was actually was referring to a question that I have just asked from a previous reply. It was should I lie to him and tell him that she FB messaged me to tell me that they have been messing around and was letting me know for in order to take me out of the picture? It may be rash and stupid. I just don't want them hooking up again.


I have no problems with a well placed lie in order to get someone to tell more than they should but I don't think your lie should be played right now. It's too easy for him to check that out because his first response will be "it must be a mistake", "someone used my identity to hookup with her" etc. 

When you first confront him he is going to try and spin it all onto you, your paranoid, making it up and before you know it your spending time trying to defend yourself. Right now I wouldn't fuel the "tall tale" storyline by not saying something you can't back up, at least not yet.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

@Bouncingbull

Do you know the name of the polish woman (not asking you to post it here)?

What other details about her do you know?

How do you know that they are still in contact?


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

The link below will give you an idea of if your husband will be one of those who once a cheater, are always a cheater type of spouse or not. Personally after being cheated on by two different women, I ended up in a non monogamous marriage that is still going strong after 44 years. We saw a monogamous marriage designed by society and religion as not workable in modern times of birth control and women not needing a man to have children or support them. Try to argue that our marriage structure is not bad and I will mention the 50% failure rate and even higher cheating rate. Most will enter into a lifetime contract that is very expensive to break and yet not buy a TV that has a 50% chance of not working at anytime with no money back guarantee or warranty. Despite that we think our brains are in control, it is our emotions that guide us.

Here is the link. Once A Cheater, Always A Cheater? Marriage Therapists Weigh In | HuffPost


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## dianaelaine59 (Aug 15, 2016)

Personally, if my husband told another woman he wishes I was struck by lightning and would die, I'm outa there!!!!

There ARE men who will make sure something happens to the wife you know!

Yikes, no thanks ... that would be enough for me!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Bouncingbull (Jun 10, 2017)

Okay. I am ready for an exit strategy. I am not sure if I can act like everything is fine anymore. It is done. He will be home by Friday. What is the best approach? Thank you.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

MAJDEATH said:


> He wouldn't be the first guy to mess around while at AT. But does that mean he doesn't love his W? No. He had a momentary lapse while training for his country. You can drop all this talk about divorce and counseling. What makes you so great?


WTF? Really MD. Just because he is serving doesn't give him the right to cheat. 

Just because you are ok or get off with your wife cheating, doesn't mean the rest of us are ok with a cheating spouse.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Bouncingbull said:


> Okay. I am ready for an exit strategy. I am not sure if I can act like everything is fine anymore. It is done. He will be home by Friday. What is the best approach? Thank you.


Ok, in looking at an exit strategy, we need some info.

Do you have a job? If so, what percentage of your joint income do you earn?

Do you have access to things like joint bank accounts where he, or both of you put income?

Do you have children with him? If so how many and what are their ages?

Do you own the home where you live, or are you renting?


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## Bouncingbull (Jun 10, 2017)

To Answer your questions: No, I do not have a job. I had a very good corporate job, but after I got "let go" (with severance), he convinced me into not working. That was stupid. I originally got this job when marriage counseling failed the first time. As for bank accounts, we have joint savings and checking. He has his personal retirement and a couple of personal savings. I also have a personal savings that I built up from my last job. As for kids, we have a 4 year old son with suspected high functioning autism. He will be tested for it in a week. Finally, we own a Townhouse. His name is on the mortgage and both of our names are on the Deed. I also have family nearby (but an hour away) that I can move to if need be. He will be home Friday, but the challenge is that my son goes to preschool for 3 hours where we live. I know that I should live with him while I build myself up more, but I personally cannot do it. I will be talking with a counselor on Tuesday for a better strategy, but it is good to start now in the meantime. I have also spoken with a lawyer already. Thank you.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Ok, so you have talked to a lawyer. What does your lawyer tell you? Can you move with your child an hour away?

Do you think that your husband would move out if he asks you to?

When you get ready to leave, move half the money from the joint account into an account in your name only. It's not stealing since it is martial property and there will be a paper trail.

Make sure that you have copies of all the legal and financial papers, passwords to all online financial accounts, etc. Store this info somewhere safe, away from the house.

What are you going to do when he gets home?


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## Bouncingbull (Jun 10, 2017)

I do not know what I am going to do once he gets home. That is why I was asking. Eventually he has to know that I know that he was cheating and that we are done. I am not sure of how to approach this. I have until Friday to figure it out.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Bouncingbull said:


> I do not know what I am going to do once he gets home. That is why I was asking. Eventually he has to know that I know that he was cheating and that we are done. I am not sure of how to approach this. I have until Friday to figure it out.


You will find away to do what needs to be done.


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## Remee81 (May 24, 2017)

Ok, hard evidence or not, the guy said he wished u would get struck by lightning...um yeah. Drop him, a loving spouse would never utter those words. I don't care if he had been completely faithful, saying that is messed up. I myself would divorce just on that right there.


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## Remee81 (May 24, 2017)

MAJDEATH said:


> He wouldn't be the first guy to mess around while at AT. But does that mean he doesn't love his W? No. He had a momentary lapse while training for his country. You can drop all this talk about divorce and counseling. What makes you so great?




He said he wished she would be struck by lightning and die. That is another mess up because he was away and had a momentary lapse in judgment. He said something so messed up it makes me sick. If you think that's OK I think you need some mental Health counseling because that speaks to an incrediblydisturbed person and you think she should forgive him for it? And yeah this isn't the first time this guy has done that. I had a serial cheater for a husband and trust me when I say that's exactly what this guy will do deny deny deny make up excuses saying he knew it was there and he was punishing her for it... all the usual bull****


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## Remee81 (May 24, 2017)

Bouncingbull said:


> Okay. I am ready for an exit strategy. I am not sure if I can act like everything is fine anymore. It is done. He will be home by Friday. What is the best approach? Thank you.




Have his stuff sitting on the front lawn. He will get the idea. It's not worth even fighting with him don't give yourself that mental anguish


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## Remee81 (May 24, 2017)

Vinnydee said:


> The link below will give you an idea of if your husband will be one of those who once a cheater, are always a cheater type of spouse or not. Personally after being cheated on by two different women, I ended up in a non monogamous marriage that is still going strong after 44 years. We saw a monogamous marriage designed by society and religion as not workable in modern times of birth control and women not needing a man to have children or support them. Try to argue that our marriage structure is not bad and I will mention the 50% failure rate and even higher cheating rate. Most will enter into a lifetime contract that is very expensive to break and yet not buy a TV that has a 50% chance of not working at anytime with no money back guarantee or warranty. Despite that we think our brains are in control, it is our emotions that guide us.
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the link. Once A Cheater, Always A Cheater? Marriage Therapists Weigh In | HuffPost




I am really glad that you could find happiness in your marriage. That's wonderful but most people just can't handle a non-monogamous relationship. I could not handle knowing my husband was with another woman. My husband cheated on me one time and it devastated me the thought that he touched another woman like that crushed me so for some people such as me and open relationship would absolutely devastate me. I do agree that as a species monogamy isn't exactly something that comes naturally to us but most of us have been raised and are just hardwired to be monogamous. It may not be something that makes for long lasting marriages overall, I get what you were saying about the divorce rate. Many of us just couldn't do it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Bouncingbull said:


> I do not know what I am going to do once he gets home. That is why I was asking. Eventually he has to know that I know that he was cheating and that we are done. I am not sure of how to approach this. I have until Friday to figure it out.


I think that you should let him know before he gets home. That way you don’t have this huge thing hanging over your head all week and then a huge confrontation. You might get cold feet just from the fear of anticipation.

How many minutes is the recording that you have? Do you have recordings of other suspect conversations or phone calls that he has made? Do you have any texts that are suspect?

You said that you did not listen to the entire recording because you think she gave him a bj and do not want to hear that. Is there anyone who you can ask to listen to the recording for you and they can tell you what happened. They could also write down some of the quotes that are the most damming? 

What you might want to consider doing is to email or text him telling him that you know he has been cheating and you want a divorce. You are done. You would prefer it if he does not come back to your home when he gets back from his trip. You cannot keep him from staying there as it is his legal residence as well. But if he chooses to come back to your home, he can sleep in another room or on the couch.

His comment about him wishing that you were struck by lightning is actually a death threat. I wonder if you can use it to get a restraining order against him. You might want to ask your attorney. My feeling about death threats is that you cannot just ignore them. My first husband did try to kill me--with a straight razor. Never ignore a death threat.

Has he ever been violent with you in the past? Has he broken things, thrown things, etc? Has he ever put his hands on your in anger? His statement to the polish woman is not something that a cheating man would normally say to someone they wanted to cheat with. This wish of you being dead came from somewhere inside him, it’s not likely to be a new thought.

While sending a letter or text to tell him that you are divorcing him because of his cheating might seem cruel, he made a death threat, or death wish against you. If you tell him in person, this could get violent.

In the email/text add quotes of some of what you heard on the recording.

Dear husband,

I know that you have been engaging in infidelity. I also know that you wish that I was dead. 

_“I wish my wife was struck by lightning and die so I could do things to you.” _{use the actual quote of course} I take this as a death threat. Stay away from me. Do not come near me. I will get a restraining order.

_ {add about 4 or 5 of the worsts quotes}_

You have been cheating. You made a death threat against me so I am getting a restraining order against you. I am filing for divorce. Do not come home. Please have the decency of moving out of the home.

Bouncingbull​
If he asked you how you got that info, just tell him that you hired a PI. Leave it at that. 

Take that recording and either put it on a thumb drive and store it with family or upload it to somewhere on a cloud storage that cannot be traced back to you.

Go see your lawyer this week and have them file for divorce ASAP. You can file for interim spousal support and child support. See about a restraining order. See if you can move to stay with your family for a while.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

OP, you say this has been going on for a long time. He has been communicating with the Polish woman for a long time, or meeting up with her? Or did you mean his philandering has been going on for a long time with random ladies?


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

aine said:


> MAJDEATH said:
> 
> 
> > He wouldn't be the first guy to mess around while at AT. But does that mean he doesn't love his W? No. He had a momentary lapse while training for his country. You can drop all this talk about divorce and counseling. What makes you so great?
> ...


OP said she suspects he may have cheated before, but not sure.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

So you got all of this from a recording in a loud bar in Poland? Definitely try to call the OW to confirm what you may have misinterpreted.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

MAJDEATH said:


> I appreciate the compliment (being compared to such a successful man) but let's not thread jack this poor ladies thread. She is reaching out for help in a potentially difficult time.


Yes I would compare you in some ways to Trump.You are both completely oblivious as to what most people consider acceptable behaviour,especially in their interpretation of being faithful to a spouse.The difference is you accept it from your wife,he behaves that way himself.
You are basically a cheat by proxy.
Would you have Munchausen by proxy by any chance.


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

Bouncing - the situation that you are in seems like a really awful one. The stress of knowing your husband will arrive on Friday, of trying to make a decision about what to do then or before then must be huge. Maybe I missed it, but are you talking to (or able to talk to) anyone aside from TAM about this? Aside from the lawyer? It strikes me that right now you need the emotional support of a therapist or close friend or family member who you can be completely open with. 

As with the other posters, if I were you, it would be very hard for your husband's callous words not to be a deal-breaker for me. Listeners do inevitably hear ill of themselves, but I also think that you have been given a very timely window into the truth of your husband's heart. 

( @Andy1001 - your advice to the OP and support of her would be a lot more powerful if it wasn't interspersed with what you are hurling at another poster. FWIW, I get it. I'm pretty sure that the OP does too. But ultimately we're all just offering our own opinions here. And as a not-so-long-ago-OP, I found that a couple of dissenting opinions actually helped me to crystallise my own opinion more coherently. I will also say that any overt hostility (even if it isn't directed at the OP) can make a thread feel a lot less supportive for an OP than it would otherwise have been.)


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Bouncing, how are you holding up?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Stop the thread jack. It is against forum rules to attack another member.

And yes, telling another member that they do not have the mental capacity is an personal attack.

I'm cleaning up the thread and anyone who continues this thread jack will get a time out ban.

Different opinions are allows on TAM. If you think that a post is harmful, attacking, etc then the way to handle it is to use the report button that is on every post (little triangle with "!" in the lover left of every post). Report the post. Let the moderators decide how to handle the post.

{Speaking as a moderator}


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Bouncing, my advice would be to continue to investigate. You have to know for sure what you are dealing with. Don't reveal your sources or methods, let him think you are clairvoyant or have hired a PI.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Bouncing, do what you have to for your peace of mind. 

If I had your info it would be finished between my wife and I until she could prove other wise. 

He wish that lightning would strike you down. No way to explain that way. 

You need to separate and I believe, find someone that actually loves you. Your husband can't with what has been said.


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## Bouncingbull (Jun 10, 2017)

Thank you for your replies everyone! Unfortunately, due to it being the final countdown, I do not have time to reply to them all. My counselor suggested leaving him a letter. The following is a mixture of my own words and what the counselor suggested. What do you think? I want to do this right despite not knowing what I am doing. The biggest issue being the fact that he will be thrown into a loop mainly because the fact that I should not be aware of his behavior. The fact that he was so far away would not make sense. Eventually we would need to talk. Leaving before he comes home and with a letter will help bring my power back. I never had any power in this relationship. She then suggested for me to not communicate with him at all for about 5 days and to use our parents for helping Aaron see his son. What do you think about all of this and the letter? It is rough, so any suggestions as to improve it would be extremely helpful. Thank you so much!

------------------------------------------------

Dearest Mr. Xx,

I love you so much, please know that! However, your behavior has pushed me to stay with my parents for awhile. Our marriage needs love, trust, and respect. Until you decide if you wnt to work on our marriage or not, this is for the best. Please think this through and decide on fixing our marriage because you love me, not because you think it is the right thing to do due to Victor or your hatred of divorce. I hate divorce too, and this is not my intention at all. After consulting with an attorney, a counselor, and thoroughly thinking over this situation all on my own, your cheating behavior and your verbal disregard for my life has led me to leave our marital home in order to protect my physical and emotional well being. You are more than welcome and encouraged to visit our son at a time and place of your choosing. (For the time being, we may have to use our parents as intermediaries). This may seem cold, but this is not my intent. This is the only way. I honestly do love you and I hope that you honestly love me too. If you do not, then it is what it is. I cannot force you to love me back. We can make this work. However, it is not working out right now between us. Please take a few weeks to decide on what you want to do with your life. This separation can be temporary. It does not have to be this end. I love you and I will be praying for this. Nonetheless, it is now up to Jesus and your heart. While thinking this over for yourself, please remember Corinthians Chapter 13 verses 4-8 of the Bible on what love is: "Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails."

Love,

Mrs. Xx (of course, this letter will use our first names instead)


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I think that the letter is ok and I think he's going to be very confused with the following....

"your cheating behavior and your verbal disregard for my life"

Because he does not know that you know what he said and did.

You are not clear in it what you would require to get back with him. But that is probably ok at this point. If you take 5 days before you communicate with him you will have time to put something together. 

Make sure that when you leave the house you have your copy of that recording with you secured. Take any valuables that are easy to take with you; copies of all financial and legal documents. Maybe even photographs if you can gather them up. Things disappear when marriages fall part.


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## Bouncingbull (Jun 10, 2017)

I feel the same way about that sentence. My counselor advised to use that statement. He does not know that I know or even how I would know. This is where I am stumped with doing a letter. As you said, about 5 days later (as she suugested to do). Another issue is, would he be confused by this, since how the hell would I know? Or would he put things together and realize that his phonne was tapped before me even telling him? That is why I am unsure of this approach in this letter. I am not even sure if any method is right.


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## pbj2016 (May 7, 2017)

Bouncingbull said:


> I feel the same way about that sentence. My counselor advised to use that statement. He does not know that I know or even how I would know. This is where I am stumped with doing a letter. As you said, about 5 days later (as she suugested to do). Another issue is, would he be confused by this, since how the hell would I know? Or would he put things together and realize that his phonne was tapped before me even telling him? That is why I am unsure of this approach in this letter. I am not even sure if any method is right.




Maybe too late but drop the part of disregard for your life. Cheating ways is good enough to separate. There are many ways that "cheating ways" can be discovered that doesn't reveal your source. Let him sweat. 


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Bouncingbull said:


> I feel the same way about that sentence. My counselor advised to use that statement. He does not know that I know or even how I would know. This is where I am stumped with doing a letter. As you said, about 5 days later (as she suugested to do). Another issue is, would he be confused by this, since how the hell would I know? Or would he put things together and realize that his phonne was tapped before me even telling him? That is why I am unsure of this approach in this letter. I am not even sure if any method is right.


You could tell him that you hired a PI who was able to get voice recording of your interaction with her or that the PI over heard it.
Do you know if he was talking to this woman in private or at the open bar?

I don't think you want to put anything in writing stating that you recorded him using the cell phone as that might be illegal. You would have to discuss that with a lawyer before fessing up to it. For example if you own the cell phone, then I think you can put anything you want on it. And opps, if it records what he says then no foul. But if he owns the cell phone, it's illegal. I do not know of anywhere that it is legal to record a conversation between two people when you are not a party to the conversation.... when there is an expectation of privacy. Is there an expectation of privacy with two people in a bar? Maybe, maybe not. A lawyer might be able to tell you that.

I would not tell him how you know. Just that you know. I would suggest that transcribe the most incriminating parts of the recording and read them to him. That way he knows that you know. If he asks you how you know, don't tell him.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

I have a tendancy to agree with Elle, you are not being clear about why you are walking out on him. He might use this against you by gaslighting. YOu must be very specific without revealing your sources.

I have the hard evidence that you have been cheating and have shared with your OW that you prefer I was dead. For obvious reasons it will be hard to see how our marriage can come back from this. I would like to hear what you have to say and will give you a chance to. However, grievous damage has been done to me by your actions and I don't know whether I could ever trust you again. I shall be sharing this evidence with my family.


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

@Bouncingbull - thinking of you today. That strength and wisdom will walk with you.


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

According to an AP poll, 50 percent of all men and women admit to having an adulterous relationship. I also highly doubt that all people in your husbands unit is not having an affair, so this is not really a military issue but a people issue. If this same group of people worked and traveled for IBM or GM you would see the same behavior unfortunately. I have been in and around the military and have known men and women who were faithful and those who cheated, but that is just who they were as people. If your husband travels for his business, I would expect him to act just the same as when he is in uniform. This is a sense of entitlement that he feels as a man. You have to do what is best for you and your son. I think you did a good thing moving out for your own protection (mentally), this is going to be a tough uphill battle no matter if you reconcile or divorce. I would recommend a 30 day separation and let the parents be a go between for exchange of your son. I may be wrong but I think you will get denial from him until he knows he has been caught and even then will try to lie and downplay everything. There is no way to have a successful reconciliation until he admits to his wrongdoing and is contrite. I would be very surprised if the person you describe does either. You need to continue to plan how to move forward without him. If he does last the 30 days you two can start counseling for starts and if it goes well add dating and eventually reconciliation. Believe his actions more than his words. Best wishes to you and your family.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Is your H back yet?


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## Bouncingbull (Jun 10, 2017)

Update in new post: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/385905-military-infidelity-part-2-a.html#post18094441


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