# Boundaries, anxiety and letting too much in



## Amplifi (Jan 22, 2020)

Sorry, this is lengthy. 

Hi folks. I'm a guy in my 40's, divorced with 2 kids, a teen and a tween. I have my kids every weekend. I've been in a serious relationship for 2.5 years. We spend Monday to Thursday together, and have started to spend most weekends together with my kids. Her kids are 19 and 18, the 19 year old lives with his dad (gamer, no job or school). Her daughter moved away for university.

It's been a challenge, as I'm sure most of these situations are. My kids love her, and she's really good to them. She does struggle with some things, like my meddling ex-wife and my controlling mother. My teen son is also starting to push back about spending weekends at her house - I get him, his mother is unstable and has them all over the place when they're with her. She was (I'm hoping not anymore, she claims no) involved with some bad people and did bad things. Everyone says their ex is bad...the stuff she did was shocking. We've been divorced for a long time now, and although the meddling and manipulation has subsided somewhat, when she gets in her 'way", I often bear the brunt of it. Think of intentionally messing with my plans/life - using the kids as she knows what buttons to push and how to ramp up my anxiety and mess with me. 

I've learned over the last few years to not engage her - getting angry or reacting simply gives her what she wants. Fuel on the fire. I learned long ago to just mute her. It's been mostly an effective strategy. But when something goes wrong for her or she does something stupid or reckless, or is just miserable, the texts start and my ignoring her doesn't always work - she'll use the kids to get a reaction from me because she knows how to create situations I simply can't ignore. It's bloody awful. My partner absolutely hates it, and she has every right to. She moved to another town, and on Fridays I have to drive there after work - it's a dangerous and stressful drive, especially in the winter. But years ago she found some guy and uprooted them, again, and moved in with him. Shockingly, they are now broken up. She picks them up Mondays. Last weekend, she got the compulsion thing going and texted me Sunday night "I want to pick the kids up tonight, it's going to snow and I don’t want them on the roads in the morning". Note: She has NEVER done ANYTHING to put their safety first. She's a drug addict (or former, so she claims). What was actually happening is that she knew we were at my gf's house, and that I'd have to drive to my place that night (she won't drive to my gf's house to pick them up) and that that would ruin the evening. It did. 

It was going to snow that night, and I actually didn't want them on the road in the morning either, so I agreed. The second my phone lights up and I see it's her, my blood pressure goes up and my vision goes wonky. "Oh no, what is it now?" The forecast changed, and there was no snow. I texted her and said "no, snow, you can just pick them up in the morning". Of course this messed with her attempt at control and ruining the evening, so she had a freak out. Instead of engaging, I simply said "oh please. Just pick them up tomorrow". And I muted her. It's difficult. She's a total failure at life, but absolutely skilled at manipulation and conniving to cause grief when she's feeling in "a way".

Then there's my mother. She was a great mom, until I was 15, when she had an affair and left for her rich, powerful affair partner. I stayed with my dad, who was a mess, in a tiny apartment. My sister went to live with them in his mansion. She became a selfish, egomaniacal person. This lasted for years and we were not close. Power and money. That was it. She is married to the man she left us for. When I went through my divorce, they swooped in and took me under their wing. All of a sudden, my caring, loving mother was back. I bonded with my stepdad. They remained, however, the ego driven, high power couple they always were. If you're in the circle, you're blessed and it's a gift. If you're out, you're trash. They were very, very kind to me, and had me all to themselves. I dated and sewed some oats, but nothing serious.

My mother is a type A personality, very accomplished, high energy, gets things done, takes care of things, is a doer. She's also controlling and domineering. She knows me extremely well. I have suffered from generalized anxiety disorder since I was a small child. She reads me like a book.

2.5 years ago, I met a woman and we fell deeply in love. At the time, she was in remission from a chronic disease. She was healthy. She met my folks and they fell in love with her. And vice-versa. When they disappeared south as they do every winter for 6 months, she was actually hurt and saddened. Her mom died several years ago and she is estranged from her dad. She felt like she had parents again. When my folks are here, we were focused on deeply. When they go, they're GONE. Deeply entrenched in their "lifestyle". I'm used to this, it actually was a bit puzzling and hurtful to my gf. All of a sudden, you're nearly ghosted. I explained this to her...she was sold by them - they're salespeople. I told her there's another side to them, she didn't get it. I've learned to accept them for who they are - I'm estranged from my father (awful story) and his father. My mom's folks were religious (cultists) who didn't associate with me, ever, I didn't know them. So, like my GF, my folks became very important and not something I wanted to lose. I don't have much family - I didn't want to lose this. 

Of course my gf coming in as an objective outsider, she saw some behaviors (control, etc) that were red flags to her. I acknowledged but explained I was making some sacrifices to preserve the relationship. You do have to "walk the line" with them, or as she put it, there's a "protocol" you have to follow to remain on the "inside". I know this was difficult for her.

Last October, while my folks were away, my gf was diagnosed with cancer. Her other illness came back as well. My folks offered to come back a month early to help her - with her house, cooking, cleaning, whatever. A very kind gesture. So they did. Now, the deal with anything you get from them is - there are caveats, rules, that come with it. It's not totally selfless - it's on THEIR terms. My gf was a passive woman who was pushed around a lot as a child and a younger woman. After leaving her ex-husband, who was abusive, she began to assert herself and "speak up". The terms which my mother dictated would be in place for the help, in short, did not work for my gf. She was never disrespectful, but she would decline if something didn't work for her. She was fighting cancer and another illness...and had other drama going on. This, of course, was extremely offensive to my parents. Passive-aggressively, my mother let this be known. She started doing under-handed, manipulative things to slight or disrespect her. My gf was baffled and hurt.

Example: she gives my daughter a check for her bday, then contacts my gf and says "will you take her to the mall to spend it Saturday". My gf replies, I can't do it this Saturday because of xyz, but if that's ok I'd be happy to do it another time". I wasn't told of any of this.

I get a text from my mom: "I asked (gf) to take (daughter) shopping but she said she wouldn't do it, so can you?" This infuriated my gf. This kind of thing kept happening. She did call her on it, saying "I didn't say I wouldn't do it, just that I couldn't this Saturday....". No reply of course. This behavior continued and my gf started to become resentful. Then my mother starts texting me at work, at dinner time, later in the evening...and I wouldn't necessarily respond right away - sometimes not the next day either. These were intrusive texts, when she knew it wasn't right for me to engage her. It escalated....things like texts at 11pm "HELLO??" "Nice talking to you!!". "Why does it take you so long to text me back??". This was causing me great anxiety and aggravating my gf. I started to reply "mom, I'm not attached to my phone, and don't text very much". Trying to be gentle but firm...but knowing how sensitive this is and that she does NOT take that well. ANY criticism is a slight, an attack. "How DARE you after all I've done for you" sort of thing. I knew this, and that the last time I confronted my mother (when I was still married), it EXPLODED and we didn't talk for months. 

And so, my fear of that happening again, stopped me from putting up the boundaries I should have. Not cool. And this was starting to affect my relationship. My anxiety has been high, and growing, and I resent being put in this situation. I started pulling back from my mom - and this drove her NUTS. She ramped up this behavior, and started being more koooky, more inappropriate. More disrespectful. They have been gone since October. Things have been very awkward...no blow ups, but obviously something is wrong...my gf and I have purposely been VERY calm, cool, collected...hoping she would get it and back off. She didn't. A simple phone call from her on a Saturday afternoon would now set my gf off, and I would get angry at her..."it's just a phone call, I have done nothing wrong!!". One of my deep rooted issues is - I get angry as hell when I feel I'm wrongly accused of something....that goes back to my past. I'm usually very chill, calm...then I feel accused wrongly, and I will explode with anger. Bad, I know. 

One of these phone calls happened Saturday, she got angry, I got angry, and I left. I was going to end it. I didn't see her side...I only saw me being in sh*t for an innocent phone call...

We patched it up, had a long talk, and I saw her perspective..she saw mine. My mother (and ex) are causing us grief...it is giving me anxiety, and anger...and that is damaging my relationship. And I'm not blameless...I know. I have an anger problem...rooted in anxiety. I am afraid of losing my folks - so I tolerate things and fail to put up boundaries. I am SICK with anxiety over this.

For xmas, my mom sent my kids checks for $100 each. There was a problem with inactivity on my daughter's account, so I couldn't deposit it. I hadn't got around to going to the bank to deal with it. The other day my mom texts "I see you haven't deposited those checks". Tisk tisk. I explained the situation...she gets on the phone and raises hell and now the bank has unfrozen the account. She included me in the email thread. I email back a thank you. She texts me the next day, looking for praise. I reply, "yes, I emailed you, thank you again for doing that". "Well I didn't get the email".

I didn't reply. 

Then this at 6pm:

"Now you have to promise me to help them deposit their cheques this weekend please. I wonder what happened to your Email"

I was eating supper with my gf, didn't reply, didn't tell her. Put it out of my mind - not letting myself get angry. I'm in my 40's and she types that?

Then 1.5 hours later, this:

"Hello? I’d just like a response as I pushed for this and need to know you will address depositing the money. I push for something but need a response."

Well, there it was. I cracked. My gf says "OMG what happened?". I show her the texts. She says "well this is the crap she's been doing all along, why are you angry now?"

I texted back "mom, please don't do this".

"Do what?"

"Demand I respond on your time. I am not attached to my phone. I JUST looked at it. It is NOT urgent that I promise you I'm going to the bank on the weekend. You know that. And I am not promising that. Thank you for the checks. If they come with rules and regulations like that, let's not do that".

That was 2 nights ago. Haven't heard a word back. I knew it - this would blow everything up. Now? We're on the outside of the circle. DONE. My gf said - "I've never seen you like that. You broke. I could see it all over your body".

I almost collapsed from emotional exhaustion. However, I am relieved. I finally put up the boundary, and it's cost the relationship. Lame. I know what will happen. She's composing an email - it will be an "I am SO hurt, how could you say that, after all we've done for you, etc etc". There will be zero self-reflection or awareness. I'm just an angry ingrate. 

And that's where I'm at. Saddened, but relieved. My gf is obviously happy I did that. She's disappointed with what's happened, but as she said, this was damaging us. 

I obviously need to figure out how to control my anxiety an how much I let others in to cause it. I guess that's on me. I'm going to the Dr tomorrow to talk about my anxiety. It's better, but I feel too much - I'm too affected. I hate generalized anxiety disorder. I resent my mother, my ex, and myself in some ways. Obviously I need to make some changes.

Comments/feedback appreciated. Apologies for the novel.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Have you ever been to Reddit? They have a subreddit dedicated to mothers like yours called JustNoMIL. Go there and read the stories. Then, hop over to another subreddit called JustNoSO. You'll see some overlap. In those subreddits you will find many stories of marriages turned sour due to mothers similar to yours and ex-wives similar to yours. Miserable spouses constantly fighting, one spouse feeling the other doesn't have their back, literal PTSD from MIL/exW shenanigans , all kinds of things. The standard advice to save the marriage/relationship is to try to set boundaries and reason with MIL and then, should that fail, go very, very, low or no contact. With the exW it's usually advised to communicate only about the children through email or text and to grey rock like it's your job.

In terms of women, generally, if there is conflict, a man can only make one woman happy and must choose his priority.


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## Amplifi (Jan 22, 2020)

MJJEAN said:


> Have you ever been to Reddit? They have a subreddit dedicated to mothers like yours called JustNoMIL. Go there and read the stories. Then, hop over to another subreddit called JustNoSO. You'll see some overlap. In those subreddits you will find many stories of marriages turned sour due to mothers similar to yours and ex-wives similar to yours. Miserable spouses constantly fighting, one spouse feeling the other doesn't have their back, literal PTSD from MIL/exW shenanigans , all kinds of things. The standard advice to save the marriage/relationship is to try to set boundaries and reason with MIL and then, should that fail, go very, very, low or no contact. With the exW it's usually advised to communicate only about the children through email or text and to grey rock like it's your job.
> 
> In terms of women, generally, if there is conflict, a man can only make one woman happy and must choose his priority.


Thank you, I'm familiar with Reddit but not those ones. So I'm not nuts - this is crazy, inappropriate behavior from her, yes?

I've been as successful as I can be with the ex, I think. It used to be awful - she would rather vicious fighting than no contact at all. She is STILL not over me and lets it be known. Completely ignoring her has been the most effective...but sometimes it doesn't work.

I'd never heard of the term gray rock before. 

Very interesting comment about only making one woman happy. I can see you're right.


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## Amplifi (Jan 22, 2020)

Lol! I just got a text from the ex, that ended with "...please let me know you got this info so I can....".

Good LORD.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

I'm sorry for all your stress. I think learning to deal with your anxiety is a top priority. For starters, there is a great app called the Calm app that helps people deal with anxiety. Secondly, some therapy would be a big help. 

Anxiety is a beast but there are tools to help you deal with it and a therapist can teach you those tools.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Keeping the relationship going with your mother isnt worth the stress it causes you. It really is ok to cut toxic family out of your life. As far as your ex wife is concerned, if she harasses you, you can file an order against her to cut off contact except under certain circumstances. (a cease and desist, I think its called..) If you have an order against her, her harassing texts will get her in trouble. You might also consider communicating with the ex via email only, then you can block her number on your phone.. its a little less intrusive.


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## Amplifi (Jan 22, 2020)

notmyjamie said:


> I'm sorry for all your stress. I think learning to deal with your anxiety is a top priority. For starters, there is a great app called the Calm app that helps people deal with anxiety. Secondly, some therapy would be a big help.
> 
> Anxiety is a beast but there are tools to help you deal with it and a therapist can teach you those tools.


Thank you, I'll check that out. I do have access to therapists through work. I've tried it before, it didn't really do anything for me, but I'm sure it's a matter of finding the right one.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Amplifi said:


> Thank you, I'll check that out. I do have access to therapists through work. I've tried it before, it didn't really do anything for me, but I'm sure it's a matter of finding the right one.


Yes, you need to find one that specializes in anxiety. In the meantime, when you’re feeling stressed, do 10 deep breaths...breath in through your nose for a count if 4 and out through your mouth for a count of 4. Don’t rush the breaths!! It helps to reset your brain and decrease anxiety. My daughter uses it a lot and it’s very helpful. Use the Calm app every night to reset your brain overall as well. 

Good luck!!!


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## Amplifi (Jan 22, 2020)

3Xnocharm said:


> Keeping the relationship going with your mother isnt worth the stress it causes you. It really is ok to cut toxic family out of your life. As far as your ex wife is concerned, if she harasses you, you can file an order against her to cut off contact except under certain circumstances. (a cease and desist, I think its called..) If you have an order against her, her harassing texts will get her in trouble. You might also consider communicating with the ex via email only, then you can block her number on your phone.. its a little less intrusive.


I've certainly done my fair share of that. I was so hoping it wouldn't come to that. That will devastate her for sure. But it's gotten so bad, that it is literally affecting my health. And I'm fighting feeling guilt over this! And have anxiety waiting for her guilt trip response. Pathetic! It's been a tough couple years, with the cancer, the surgery that required, and I'm just absolutely disgusted at my mother's behavior. I think, I know, a big part of it is - my mom and stepdad's seemingly perfect relationship is anything but. The demands he places on her, and she on herself...this level of performance that's expected, couple that with their being retired, I know my mom is exhausted. She's 64 years old, and still performs at a level higher than most 30 year olds. 

I also know, a lot of this behavior comes out when she's been drinking, scotch in particular. I know there's a lot of serious issues with their marriage. She was groomed to be the perfect wife - the show pony for him. Very wealthy, accomplished people, who NEVER, EVER say they're sorry, for anything. Never. Infallible. He gets what he wants and nobody questions it. My gf told me of one time when she and my mom were having lunch, and my mom looked right at her and proclaimed "we are very powerful, important people". Yuck.

What a shame. I do know though, that as was written above, if I want my relationship to work, and be healthy, I simply cannot have this dynamic with my mother. My gf said to me last night "you must really hate women right now. And I can't blame you". Sheesh.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

So, your mom

-Had an affair and left her husband and 15 year old son 
-Has issues with alcohol
-Bails 50% of the time to vacation
-Values money and appearances very highly, if not above all
-Only gives with strings attached

I know she's your mother, but I have to wonder A) how much of your anxiety from childhood stemmed from her "type A domineering and controlling ego driven" nature and B) why you'd want her in your life in the first place.


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## aquarius1 (May 10, 2019)

Yikes. She will realize (all too late) that there are no prizes given out at the end for bestest, most importantest couple. lol
Whatever. In the meantime, look after your end of things.
Find the RIGHT therapist. Someone who specializes in CBT or better yet, DBT (dialectic behaviour therapy)
You may even consider a short course of anti-anxiety meds just to break the cycle so you can get the upper hand on this.
Why not go into settings on your phone and type in a response to send to people when they text? It automatically sends them a text if you have Do Not Disturb (or mute) on.
"Driving right now...talk later! Away from phone, be back soon!" or you can type your own message. That way they know you got the message but you are not replying right now.
Don't know if it will help but...


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## Amplifi (Jan 22, 2020)

MJJEAN said:


> So, your mom
> 
> -Had an affair and left her husband and 15 year old son
> -Has issues with alcohol
> ...


Wow. Yeah. That's heavy...and sadly, totally accurate.

You're onto something with the anxiety. When I first met my gf, we went down south with them for Christmas, which the kids and I had done every year basically since I divorced (2013). Every time, my son would get violently ill, dry heaving. My anxiety was ALWAYS through the roof there. My mom promised my GF: "you guys will come down, totally relax, unwind, forget all your troubles...it's just what you need. It'll be fantastic".

What my gf soon realized is, it is very relaxing...on a tight regimented schedule dictated by my mom. CLAP CLAP! Where's gf?? It's 12pm - we are going for lunch!! SNAP SNAP! Where is gf! We're going to the mall!!

My gf was stunned - and me...I was so used to this, and thought, "ya, that's kind of rude. She's holding us up". Oh my, was I trained! Absolutely oblivious to the fact I had been indoctrinated. Then, when we get back home, my mother calls me and says "we were actually rather put off and not impressed. She really seems to be...kind of a princess...". And I believed it! (This was 2017). My mother has constantly been trying to form some twisted alliance with me against my gf. And I was blind to it, or didn't want to see it.

My gf then told me "you had extreme anxiety the entire time we were there. Do you always feel like that there?". Yes, yes I do. "uh huh" she says.

Last night, I told mt gf: "I want to apologize to you. My mother has been passively aggressively trying to sabotage you from day one, and I didn't see it. I totally respect how you've handled it, and her, and I'm sorry you've been going through this. You will NEVER, EVER have to sacrifice your integrity, your sense of self, your station in order to appease her. That will never, ever happen I again". And I meant it. She said "but I don't want you to do that for me...". I said no, it's for me, and you should never have had to tolerate that in the first place. I won't let anyone treat you that way.

She was astonished. She thanked me and told me how much that means to her. What she must have thought and felt...I was one of those mama's boys, controlled and manipulated. And our relationship has suffered, many times, in many ways for it.

I am sorry. That's embarrassing. But at least I see it now, and admit to it, and put a stop to it.

Never again. I talk about being a man in my 40s....I need to start acting like one.


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## Amplifi (Jan 22, 2020)

aquarius1 said:


> Yikes. She will realize (all too late) that there are no prizes given out at the end for bestest, most importantest couple. lol
> Whatever. In the meantime, look after your end of things.
> Find the RIGHT therapist. Someone who specializes in CBT or better yet, DBT (dialectic behaviour therapy)
> You may even consider a short course of anti-anxiety meds just to break the cycle so you can get the upper hand on this.
> ...


I like this, thank you. I am asking for a non-benzo anti-anxiety med today (Buspar). It works wonders for some, not for others. I'll try it. And the therapy. 

I will look at the text thing. The ex did the other kind of manipulation last night. I eventually responded to her text, "yup I'll be there". She KNEW I would be - I've NEVER not picked up my kids on my day! Then she starts texting me about some connection she has with something that she can set me up with, to save me money. "I've got such and such a connection, I think this could help you".

I didn't reply.

Then more. "Just saying, if you want, I can pass on the savings to you".

Lol. Just nuts. She goes from negative, nasty stuff to trying to appear as though she'll do me some favor. I didn't reply. Why is she texting me AT ALL? Just stunning how I have these 2 vampires in my life - and neither one is my partner. Time to shut them both down. If anyone should be up my ass, it should be my girlfriend.


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## jogncartman (Nov 7, 2019)

Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,607
Re: The Supporter Who Said Too Much
This guy is a ***** blowhard who is just spouting off. He won't do a thing but cuss a lot when Bernie gets the boot. He's a moron trying to be a badass who is parrotting what he has heard but can't even get that right.

"Cities will burn ... Milwaukee will burn"
"Trump doesn't give 2 ****s about making sure the world doesn't burn ."
The hypocrisy is entertaining and he's too stupid to realize he contradi


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Amplifi said:


> Wow. Yeah. That's heavy...and sadly, totally accurate.
> 
> You're onto something with the anxiety. When I first met my gf, we went down south with them for Christmas, which the kids and I had done every year basically since I divorced (2013). Every time, my son would get violently ill, dry heaving. My anxiety was ALWAYS through the roof there. My mom promised my GF: "you guys will come down, totally relax, unwind, forget all your troubles...it's just what you need. It'll be fantastic".
> 
> ...


It sounds like your mothers ways might be the root cause of your anxiety and that your son is equally sensitive to her. You may want to consider how much time he spends with your mother if he's gotten so upset by her ways that he was actually dry heaving every time you went to stay with her.

You see it now and that's what matters. You can't change the past. You can only go forward. Setting and keeping boundaries, standing your ground, expressing your feelings openly and honestly, these things I think you should really work out in therapy. Your therapist can teach you how to quell the anxiety and how to deal with your mother should you choose to continue in contact with her.

As for the ex, Google "grey rock technique". What you want to do is basically be so boring to your ex that she loses interest in you. No responses to anything unnecessary. One or two word responses to what you have to respond to regarding the kiddo. No emotion. No explaining. No nothing. It takes consistency and time to undo the pattern. Expect an extinction burst. Weather the storm and get the police involved if you have tnce the burst is over, in theory, she'll move on to suck the life out of someone she can get a rise from.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Amplifi said:


> I've certainly done my fair share of that. I was so hoping it wouldn't come to that. That will devastate her for sure. But it's gotten so bad, that it is literally affecting my health. And I'm fighting feeling guilt over this! And have anxiety waiting for her guilt trip response. Pathetic! It's been a tough couple years, with the cancer, the surgery that required, and I'm just absolutely disgusted at my mother's behavior. I think, I know, a big part of it is - my mom and stepdad's seemingly perfect relationship is anything but. The demands he places on her, and she on herself...this level of performance that's expected, couple that with their being retired, I know my mom is exhausted. She's 64 years old, and still performs at a level higher than most 30 year olds.
> 
> I also know, a lot of this behavior comes out when she's been drinking, scotch in particular. I know there's a lot of serious issues with their marriage. She was groomed to be the perfect wife - the show pony for him. Very wealthy, accomplished people, who NEVER, EVER say they're sorry, for anything. Never. Infallible. He gets what he wants and nobody questions it. My gf told me of one time when she and my mom were having lunch, and my mom looked right at her and proclaimed "we are very powerful, important people". Yuck.
> 
> What a shame. I do know though, that as was written above, if I want my relationship to work, and be healthy, I simply cannot have this dynamic with my mother. My gf said to me last night "you must really hate women right now. And I can't blame you". Sheesh.


Did you unpack this with your past therapists? Many people go to therapy and do not open up. Yes, you go for anxiety, but if you don’t know how to deal with this you can’t move forward. Realize, this history is damaging your relationships as well.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

MJJEAN said:


> As for the ex, Google "grey rock technique". What you want to do is basically be so boring to your ex that she loses interest in you. No responses to anything unnecessary. One or two word responses to what you have to respond to regarding the kiddo. No emotion. No explaining. No nothing. It takes consistency and time to undo the pattern. Expect an extinction burst. Weather the storm and get the police involved if you have tnce the burst is over, in theory, she'll move on to suck the life out of someone she can get a rise from.


Good idea. OP have you flat out told your ex to NOT contact you unless it is directly about your child? Do not respond to ANYTHING she sends that isnt about your child ONLY. It will take some real effort on your part but you have to follow through once you lay it out to her to knock it off. 

I still say to relegate her to email only...


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## BornFree (May 12, 2018)

Different perspective?

Though I feel for you, and understand about the anxiety and feeling overwhelmed, I’ve not seen much mentioned here about how your GF must be managing, or your concern for her situation. I’m guessing she is wracked with anxiety also, and it is connected to what you’ve allowed in your relationship. The fact that she has had to endure these out of line disrespectful women in your life, while opening her heart and home to your own teens (and has lost her own), makes me wonder if you have considered that she has not been treated like the gem she sounds to be. 

If her weekdays have been muddled with intrusive texts that affect your time together, even caused conflict (as you admitted you did not always see her point), terrible treatment by your mother , then your kids in her home on the weekends because that is an arrangement you once made, how do you think she is feeling? In your intro to this dilemma, you mentioned her own teenage son with a negative description, when he is not even in your space or life, nor is her daughter. You have no idea what they are doing or feeling. I’m guessing your son is engaged in the same activities as her son was, so I have to ask— why is your son special, and why should she tolerate your teens while hers do not affect a moment of your life? This along with toxic women? 

As a father of 3 teens, I can assure you she is also dealing with less than stellar treatment by your own kids. This will only get worse. They are no longer little, and perhaps it’s time to consider the expectations placed on your GF to also tolerate this, is incredibly unfair. She must really love you, this has been all about you and two women in your life who should not be in it 99% of the time, and now you assume teens won’t run her into the ground or out the door? 

Have you asked her how she is doing? She has had a terrible time with things that are out of her control, while supporting you along the way it sounds like. I mean really supporting you. You have not even had to deal with the dynamic of her own kids, it’s been all about yours has it not? You have complete control over these other people in your life, whom I guarantee, will destroy your relationship with your GF (who sounds like a very different woman by the way). 

Are you prepared to lose her? I don’t know any woman that would tolerate all of this, while going through what you described with her health. I hope you realize what you have. In spite of your anxiety, she is dealing with her health, and that should be priority— for you also. If it is not, and these others are allowed to dominate your thoughts, emotions, and priorities, she will not be able to continue to support you. So your GF was well, had a relapse in her health and even a dreaded cancer experience, and she has tolerated this group of people from your life, including kids that are not her own? I have to say, I do not know any woman who would have stuck around for this. 

As the father of 3 teens, I can assure you, your kids are not something she enjoys, she does this for you. Clearly she is doing a lot of sacrifice to be with you and is loyal as hell. I’m also guessing she was not in the forefront of your attention or priorities this past year, while dealing with cancer and her own empty nesting. That’s really rough, I wonder if you’ve considered this, and that she likely has her own anxiety and pain about all this. You control all of this— your mommy dearest, your nasty Ex, your willingness to realize that your teens will soon be gone. 

If she is not at the forefront of your actions and the reason for making hard boundaries and adjustments with these two women, your anxiety with the others will be your future , your GF will not be. I hope you realize what you have, and that you really are in control of the source of your anxiety ultimately. I truly hope you don’t lose this woman, she should be your focus if you actually want to have a life with her. Dealing with the rest is the first step to quelling the anxiety you are held under, and it sounds like being with a great woman may be part of healing the ****ty ones in your past. I mean dude, she actually acknowledged you ‘must really not like women right now’. That’s something. 

Don’t let this one get away, I have a feeling you will regret it and drown in the greatest anxiety of your life. I hope you know what you have and what you actually control. Do not let all of that ruin what sounds like could be an amazing second chance. You are in control brother- no one else. Do not let anyone tell you otherwise. Good luck to you


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

@BornFree

I broke your post up into paragraphs. Most people will not read a wall of text. It's just too hard to follow. (FYI)


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## BornFree (May 12, 2018)

Gotcha, I normally over paragraph especially when long. I missed this one, noted!


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## Luminous (Jan 14, 2018)

notmyjamie said:


> Yes, you need to find one that specializes in anxiety. In the meantime, when you’re feeling stressed, do 10 deep breaths...breath in through your nose for a count if 4 and out through your mouth for a count of 4. Don’t rush the breaths!! It helps to reset your brain and decrease anxiety. My daughter uses it a lot and it’s very helpful. Use the Calm app every night to reset your brain overall as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck!!!


Just to add to this, part of the breathing technique (which even Special Military Forces use) you mention involves holding the breath for a 4 count after each breath in/out.

4 count breathe in

4 count hold

4 count breathe out

4 count hold

And repeat.


Has been proven to help calm the mind/body in times of stress

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## Amplifi (Jan 22, 2020)

BornFree said:


> Different perspective?
> 
> Though I feel for you, and understand about the anxiety and feeling overwhelmed, I’ve not seen much mentioned here about how your GF must be managing, or your concern for her situation. I’m guessing she is wracked with anxiety also, and it is connected to what you’ve allowed in your relationship. The fact that she has had to endure these out of line disrespectful women in your life, while opening her heart and home to your own teens (and has lost her own), makes me wonder if you have considered that she has not been treated like the gem she sounds to be.
> 
> ...


While I appreciate your post and insights, and agree with some of it - there seems to be an awful lot of speculation in there.

Where might that come from?


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## BornFree (May 12, 2018)

No speculation at all brother, just going off of the details on what you shared about the events leading up to feeling like your anxiety is at an all time high. No doubt you feel the way you do for those reasons, I mean a mother that you described while trying to balance moving on with a GF, who you’d like to have a life with, with an ex that tends to go for the jabs whenever possible, who has also given you grief. Truthfully the pair would be a source of juggling and anxiety for most. 

I was wondering if you had considered the woman that is important to you as you described, and said she wasn’t even behaving the way said mother/ex were- and she is your GF ( nagging, demanding, texting you and demanding answers by certain times etc) You sound like a couple on the same page, this also means she is likely feeling these issues with you. I’m certain it is also stressful for her, you mentioned serious health issues that caused you stress also, and I wonder how she manages all that you feel along with such things like cancer and health issues you mentioned. 

I also wondered about your teens, as you referred to your son and even he feeling the possible effects of your moms control, add that to you own GF’s teens. There is a lot there for you both. I speak from my own experience when trying to combine my 3 teens into my GF’s life, and they were not always easy on her. I often didn’t know. She was super supportive, and I forgot to realize that she was not their mother many times, so she quietly tolerated all of this, while I worried about my own stress all the time, she then faded away. One day she could no longer be there for me with all of my angst, my teens, their mother (my X), and I missed what she had been experiencing herself.

So I lost her. She had her own struggle and kids, and I focused on my Ex, my teens, and she and her kids were not a priority (this is hindsight of course). I regret it deeply.
My anxiety and stress did not get better when this happened. 
So your story resonated with me.

She was my soul mate, and my focus on my anxiety and making it the most important thing without balance in the relationship, was the cause of its demise.

I just hope these outside issues and challenges do not cause the same for you. Please don’t forget about her possible anxiety as well.
It’s not worth losing your GF and best friend, because the outside noise got in. 
I hope your anxiety improves, surely it will if these outside things are left behind boundaries. I wish you the best with this. It’s such a hard process, old crap that can ruin what you have today.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Amplifi said:


> Very wealthy, accomplished people, who NEVER, EVER say they're sorry, for anything. Never. Infallible. He gets what he wants and nobody questions it. My gf told me of one time when she and my mom were having lunch, and my mom looked right at her and proclaimed "we are very powerful, important people". Yuck.


Sounds like narcissism


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Your ex wife sounds like a younger version of your mother. I'd block both of their phone numbers, and if they want to get a hold of you, they can email. I know, I make this sound so easy  I learned this from a friend who recently got divorced, and she blocked her husband's phone number, and he is only allowed to communicate with her through email. (and she checks it once or twice daily) Now, he can still throw a tantrum in an email, but texts are different, and more disruptive since we're always looking at our phones.


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## Amplifi (Jan 22, 2020)

As I suspected, I haven't heard a word from my mother. It's been almost a month. Very, very telling. She found me gently presenting my (totally reasonable) boundaries so offensive and out of line that she's cut me off.

Fortunately, I am totally OK with this, and actually relieved. Childish, manipulative behavior.


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## BornFree (May 12, 2018)

Anything with your mother? It is surprising if she has not reached out based on the description of her strong personality, perhaps this is a relief for you? Has this brought peace, how goes the rest?


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## NalaLyla (Mar 3, 2020)

Amplifi said:


> Sorry, this is lengthy.
> 
> Hi folks. I'm a guy in my 40's, divorced with 2 kids, a teen and a tween. I have my kids every weekend. I've been in a serious relationship for 2.5 years. We spend Monday to Thursday together, and have started to spend most weekends together with my kids. Her kids are 19 and 18, the 19 year old lives with his dad (gamer, no job or school). Her daughter moved away for university.
> 
> ...


I am not sure if forum replies would help you to treat your anxiety and hope that dr would all his best for your treatment, that is why you should listen to what he says and try to stick to it.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

NalaLyla said:


> I am not sure if forum replies would help you to treat your anxiety and hope that dr would all his best for your treatment, that is why you should listen to what he says and try to stick to it.


The forum isn’t about treating anything. As you can see we are offering advice, most of which is followed by talk to your therapist or counselor.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Your GF sounds like an amazing woman. Please shield her from your mother and your XW.


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## BornFree (May 12, 2018)

This is what I alluded to way back closer to the original post. I wondered about this GF who seemed to be the one good redeeming energy. I saw the potential for loss, only because I allowed it in my own life and related to this story. 
I regret it deeply an cannot move on. My anger and resentment toward my X only worse, my anxiety once calmed by the many positives of a healthy relationship with a beautiful GF with a much different energy, is back.
It seems to be a common story, other negative female energies (x wives, even mothers), who can ensure the loss of other good ones who come along. It’s frightening to me that this happens, believe me I tried, though I guess not strong enough. I wonder about @amplify, how are you doing?


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

@Amplifi, I’m so sorry that you’re here and dealing with all that you’re dealing with. My first thoughts are this: you’re stronger than you think, and you sound like a really good person who stands by those he cares about through thick and thin.

You’re dealing with a lot of manipulation and narcissistic qualities in both your ex and Mom, and that’s a hard spot to be in. You say that you’re in your 40s, and the advice I’m going to give you is this: make your own life and your own happiness, and if happiness follows with your parents involved, that’s great, if not, just take care of you, your kids, your GF and her kids. 

I can relate to what you’re going through, but on a smaller scale. My own family sounds a bit like your folks in way that they like to control and manipulate to get results that are best for themselves. They have also destroyed a couple relationships and friendships that I had in the past with their manipulation tactics that I was too blind to see. 

I do need to say one thing: good for you for opening your heart and apologizing to your GF. It’s a situation that isn’t totally in your control, but you’re taking control of your part of it, and I can guarantee that your GF greatly appreciated your words and your standing up for her. You’re a good man, and the world needs more men like you who stand up for their significant others.

So, good for you, and keep on keeping on. You’re doing better than you probably think you are.


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## Amplifi (Jan 22, 2020)

Well, after over 5 months of radio silence from her, after I sent a very gentle and loving email, but still stating that I felt I had to keep my boundaries, I got a scathing email from her. To note, in the past 5 months, my son, who she chastised to me with great disgust and vitriol over the phone in the months preceding this, has reached out to her. He got a short text reply, just one, nothing since.

She went on to tell me that she was horrified, what was it, "it knocked the wind right out me" in regards to me setting those boundaries (which was respectfully and gently written, but I stood firm on them). I had no right to set these boundaries.

She then went on to bring up things from the past - the time I yelled at her. Of course she conveniently has left out the fact that, several years ago, she asked me about that and I told her what she had done. She had literally put my son's life in danger and then mocked me when I removed him from the danger and left. She had forgotten that then, and has again since, it would seem. She then went on to chastise me for HER behavior towards other family members when they treated me poorly. She put the blame down heavy for the relations she "threw away" because she called them out on their ****ty behavior. So that's my fault as well.

She went on to blame me for her not seeing my kids. "I have no relationship with your kids because...". I left that door wide open, open arms, softness, love, peace. Her grandson reached out to her. She chose to shun us - but that's my fault too.

She went on to say how I just throw people away and have no friends and have alienated family - she blamed me for not having a relationship with her family - who are Jehovah's Witnesses, and have shunned me since we left the church when I was THREE. I saw my grandmother at my grandfather's funeral years ago - and she came up to me and said 'and who are you?". I said "I'm your grandson". She said "oh" and walked away. Same with her sisters and my uncles. But again. that's my fault.

I told her in that nice email I sent how I loved that we had bonded over the years. She chastised me for using that word because it "meant WAY more to them than just bonding". So I f'ed up a compliment too.

My folks have had horrible, knock down, drag out fights and litigation with family, friends, business partners and employees over the years - too many to count. But I'm the one at odds with everyone. She even threw my ex wife in there - who she detests - defending her. We've been divorced for 7 years and are on friendly terms.

I was shocked by the email but not surprised. The astounding lack of accountability, changing of history, refusing my boundaries, and straight up lies....I'm at a loss for words.

She ended it with "If we come back from this, I'll expect more respect from you. I don't like the way you've treated us and other family members".

I may post it later - I'm not even doing it justice by paraphrasing. My kids are really hurt be being shunned by them. But they know who she is and have accepted it.

We won't come back from this. The narcissism, hubris, lack of accountability, ego and just straight up lies...it's too much.

Watching her weaponize things she previously appeared to feel horrible and remorseful about was the icing on the cake. That and blaming me for her being angry at other people. Just wow.

But I knew going in - nobody, and I mean NOBODY questions or challenges them. I even, coincidentally, work with people who worked with/for them before. At first they were rude to me because of the association. Once they learned I'm nothing like them, it's been all cool with all of them. Telling indeed.


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## Amplifi (Jan 22, 2020)

I have a whole email typed up, debunking all the BS. I'm not going to bother sending it. I just feel really bad for my kids in this. They're being punished for something they didn't do.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Amplifi said:


> I have a whole email typed up, debunking all the BS. I'm not going to bother sending it. I just feel really bad for my kids in this. They're being punished for something they didn't do.


Your kids are better off without them, honestly. They will treat them the same way they do everyone else eventually, so you’ve actually done them a favor. I’m sorry you’re dealing with all this crap. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

It‘s never beneficial to have crazies in your life. Too much stress. Hopefully, your children will no longer have any expectations going forward that the crazies might some day change into regular people.


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## Amplifi (Jan 22, 2020)

I remember reading up on the "narcissistic mother", and one of the key attributes was that they put their kids down, or belittle or insult them. And I thought, oh, no, my mom doesn't do that. That's called "denial". Her email was a long, LONG list telling me what a piece of **** I am. I had a flash of anger when I first read it, then typed up my reply. The anger almost immediately turned into apathy, then relief. I reread my OP and sure enough, my prediction came true - she spent months crafting an attack email. I actually feel a sense of relief, as she's made it easy for me to just be done.


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## Amplifi (Jan 22, 2020)

3Xnocharm said:


> Your kids are better off without them, honestly. They will treat them the same way they do everyone else eventually, so you’ve actually done them a favor. I’m sorry you’re dealing with all this crap.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Indeed. I'm not sure if I posted this somewhere else in this thread, but another thing I found out was that my mom would drive the kids around after drinking, and while drinking wine in her Mercedes. They had told my ex, and asked her not to tell me so I wouldn't get angry.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Amplifi said:


> Last weekend, she got the compulsion thing going and texted me Sunday night "I want to pick the kids up tonight, it's going to snow and I don’t want them on the roads in the morning". Note: She has NEVER done ANYTHING to put their safety first. She's a drug addict (or former, so she claims). What was actually happening is that she knew we were at my gf's house, and that I'd have to drive to my place that night (*she won't drive to my gf's house to pick them up*) and that that would ruin the evening. It did.


In this scenario, and going forward now you respond with "We're at gf's, you're welcome to pick them up here, otherwise I'll see you at my place tommorrow morning". And then don't respond to ANYTHING else she sends.

As for your mother, she sounds just like my MIL. My inlaws are what brought me to TAM. Trust me when I tell you that your gf would be suffering from all of this, even without her health problems - add them in, and omg. I am my husbands second (and will be the last) wife. The crap that I have had to tolerate from his side of the street - his mother, his sister, his ex wife...omfg. However, over time I came to realise, that the biggest problem wasn't them - it was him! His apparent inability to do anything at all about the situation caused incredible frustration for me. Any time he has a phone call from his mother causes me anxiety. When he used to go and see them still (he doesn't anymore), my anxiety would build slowly in the leadup, be out of control while he was there and then often, result in a huge argument between the two of us on his return, because yet AGAIN, he had either done nothing to attempt to resolve the situation, or thrown me under the bus - or both.

I remember one occasion, it was a long weekend and we were having a FABULOUS weekend together, full of love and laughter. One phone call from his mother on a Sunday afternoon and it was shot to ****. And again, the problem wasn't her, it was him! This **** continues because HE allowed it. No other reason.

Another time, when he called his parents out on violating a boundary of our daughters, they didn't speak to him for almost a year! They completely ignored his 50th birthday - no card, no call, not even a text message. He said to me "Why would my parents do this?". I said "Because they've lost control of you, and they don't like it". Finally, his eyes were opened and now he only talks to them on the phone, a few times a year when she calls. And that's if he even answers. He never calls her.

I'm glad you finally seem to be getting where your priorities should be - with your gf and your kids.

Stuff the ex, stuff your mother. You're a grown man, in charge of your own family. Put them first. Always.


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## Amplifi (Jan 22, 2020)

frusdil said:


> In this scenario, and going forward now you respond with "We're at gf's, you're welcome to pick them up here, otherwise I'll see you at my place tommorrow morning". And then don't respond to ANYTHING else she sends.
> 
> As for your mother, she sounds just like my MIL. My inlaws are what brought me to TAM. Trust me when I tell you that your gf would be suffering from all of this, even without her health problems - add them in, and omg. I am my husbands second (and will be the last) wife. The crap that I have had to tolerate from his side of the street - his mother, his sister, his ex wife...omfg. However, over time I came to realise, that the biggest problem wasn't them - it was him! His apparent inability to do anything at all about the situation caused incredible frustration for me. Any time he has a phone call from his mother causes me anxiety. When he used to go and see them still (he doesn't anymore), my anxiety would build slowly in the leadup, be out of control while he was there and then often, result in a huge argument between the two of us on his return, because yet AGAIN, he had either done nothing to attempt to resolve the situation, or thrown me under the bus - or both.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately things didn't work out with my gf. For reasons other than my mother and ex - I won't go into that. The fallout with my folks, the end of my relationship and the COVID thing all happened within a few weeks or so of each other. Needless to say, it's been...not the greatest time. The COVID thing on its own is bad for everyone, obviously. What's that thing about bad things happening in 3's?

Of course now that I'm single, guess who's just the sweetest thing ever? Yup, ex-wife. She swooped in like a Succubus (or at least attempted to). Has been dropping the kids off (she's out of work) - I haven't had to do that drive in 3+ months. I'll take the peace, but make no mistake, I know exactly what she's doing. Got a text the other day after she dropped the kids off "JSYK, age looks very good on you, looking good kid" or something to that effect. There's been a few of those. I don't respond.

Yup - your MIL sounds exactly like my mother. It seems it's far more common than I thought. It's good your husband stopped tolerating it. I honestly believe this is it for us. It's funny - I had been working so hard to maintain the peace, with all of it - as I said, I don't really have much family - so I was pretty worried about losing my folks. The one time I pushed back - it's not like I swore and yelled and hurled insults. I literally said "mom, please don't do that". And that's it - like your MIL - she and my stepdad are DONE with me. The only way to salvage it would be for me to come crawling back, apologize for setting a boundary and agree to get rid of said boundary. None of that is going to happen. Ever. And they will NEVER apologize. As I said before, my mom did ONE time - then took it back and weaponized it!

On a positive note - several years ago I had a falling out with my grandfather. He's another guy NOBODY questions. He went of Facebook and ranted about how atheists are no good and have never helped anyone or been charitable, only religious people do. I called him to task on that and he attacked me personally and said horrible things. Because NOBODY questions or challenges him. The other day I received a letter in the mail - it was him - he apologized and literally begged for my forgiveness. That stunned me. I had actually reached out to him in December, through Messenger, but he never saw it. So, we've patched things up. I was happy to get that letter. Never saw it coming.


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## daddymikey1975 (Apr 18, 2009)

Amplifi said:


> Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately things didn't work out with my gf. For reasons other than my mother and ex - I won't go into that. The fallout with my folks, the end of my relationship and the COVID thing all happened within a few weeks or so of each other. Needless to say, it's been...not the greatest time. The COVID thing on its own is bad for everyone, obviously. What's that thing about bad things happening in 3's?
> 
> Of course now that I'm single, guess who's just the sweetest thing ever? Yup, ex-wife. She swooped in like a Succubus (or at least attempted to). Has been dropping the kids off (she's out of work) - I haven't had to do that drive in 3+ months. I'll take the peace, but make no mistake, I know exactly what she's doing. Got a text the other day after she dropped the kids off "JSYK, age looks very good on you, looking good kid" or something to that effect. There's been a few of those. I don't respond.
> 
> ...


Do you mind sharing what happened between you and your gf?

Why the falling out? 

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Crap! My mom is alot like this. She was always in control and used to belittle my dad. Made me resent her and loose respect for my dad for not putting a boot in her asr. It made me see him as a weak man. He died last March and now she is alone. I might call her every 2 weeks. Really dont think about her much. 
After years of verbal abuse and resentment being built by the way she treated my dad he finally flipped his switch where she just became a family member a nothing more. She started trying to correct the damage she had done but his ship had sailed and he was closed to her trying to make amends.

Something that stuck in my mind was her joking with others that even if he could get it up (diabetic)she just was not interrested in sex. The fact she openly said something like that to other women. I wished he would have left her and found someone who would love him. He was a very caring man.

I was a "good guy" and was looking for marriage material so i refrained from sex....until 23 as i wanted a girl who felt the same about it. Had plenty of opportunities, but that ment something to me. My mom had a beauty shop and i would go there and she would say something about her sweet innoucent son. To all of these women in the beauty shop! I was pissed. It is hard enough with the ridicule from male peers and now my mom. I went out that weekend and had sex with a young mom who liked me because i was pissed at my mother so i could throw it back in her face at her shop. Thanks mom.
Any who she made her bed and i rarely see or call her.


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## Amplifi (Jan 22, 2020)

Divinely Favored said:


> Crap! My mom is alot like this. She was always in control and used to belittle my dad. Made me resent her and loose respect for my dad for not putting a boot in her asr. It made me see him as a weak man. He died last March and now she is alone. I might call her every 2 weeks. Really dont think about her much.
> After years of verbal abuse and resentment being built by the way she treated my dad he finally flipped his switch where she just became a family member a nothing more. She started trying to correct the damage she had done but his ship had sailed and he was closed to her trying to make amends.
> 
> Something that stuck in my mind was her joking with others that even if he could get it up (diabetic)she just was not interrested in sex. The fact she openly said something like that to other women. I wished he would have left her and found someone who would love him. He was a very caring man.
> ...


Ugh, sorry to hear that. Sounds like the classic narcissistic mother. That sucks about your dad, too.

My phone rang yesterday at 3pm and it was my mom. I was right in the middle of an important meeting and it threw me. She didn't leave a message. I read her email again after that - just utterly astounding. Blaming me for **** SHE did 30 years ago. Lol! I actually laughed. I thought about it, and nobody in my entire life has gone to the length and detail (incorrect details, btw) to tell me what a horrible piece of garbage I am. It's a novel filled with utter lies, history changing, fact omitting drama queen hysterics that go back to when I was 15 years old. The same age as my son, who she also bashed at great length, to me, at work. Not my ex wife or ex inlaws, ex girlfriends, nobody has ever talked that way to me. The fact that she said those heinous things to me and thinks I'll answer her phone call...wow. But then again. They're "very powerful people", and "everyone wants to be around them all the time", so how could I NOT???


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

Someone once said.....you don't choose your first family, but you DO choose your second family. 

If your mother's behaviour is unacceptable to you, and causes nothing but anxiety and strife in your life, then......make a choice.


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## Amplifi (Jan 22, 2020)

OnTheFly said:


> Someone once said.....you don't choose your first family, but you DO choose your second family.
> 
> If your mother's behaviour is unacceptable to you, and causes nothing but anxiety and strife in your life, then......make a choice.


Already have.


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