# What does she want/have i lost my wife



## dukey28 (May 10, 2017)

Ok so for the past month or so i really don't know whats going on with our marriage. We've been married 4 years and we have 3 year old twins which is hard work.

Last night for the first time we had an adult conversation about our relationship, this conversation was sparked because we both wanted sex but the vibe just wasn't right, it just didn't happen and this has been the case for the past few times, when it has happned it was just sex or quickies and nothing intimate. For the first 3/4 months of 2017 our sex life had picked up dramatically, we were having sex often and on top of that there was connection and i felt it from her, a lately no connection at all.

She kept trying to have sex but i for some reason just couldn't get her going, she said i was just rushing. she then laid on the bed and said i want sex but maybe just not with you, what are you going to do to make me want you? At this point i was totally not interested. I then responded, that comment has put me in a funny mood, i don't even want to try. My confidence just dropped to 0, that comment did nothing for my ego never mind my sexual desire. She then said i was just trying a bit of role play. That type of role play is definitely not what i want. I hate it and i told her this. Imagining my wife with another man just makes me sick to the stomach and i feel angry and heartbroken inside. Was she doing role play or was she actually being truthful?

I've explained how i feel about it before yet it still comes out, she says im being insecure as about a month ago i had doubts about if she was going to continue being faithful as she had mentioned in an argument that she has even started thinking about being with someone else and she said she shouldn't have to. This sparked all sorts of things in my head.

Now the conversation last night consisted of the same thing yet the difference was she wasn't angry.

She asked whats happening with our relationship and i understood what she meant, there is zero connection. She said sometimes she thinks would it be better if she found someone else, would she be happy, she said im happy now with you just not 100%. She said she loves me and that even if she did find someone else that she would never love them as much as me.

I then said well i know its bad and the kids at the moment, they do nothing but cry/moan and push the boundaries and thats all she has all day 5 days a week while im at work. I appreciate what she does and i have told her i do. She said when shes on social media she sees other couples that are going on holiday together, going out and it looks good and we do nothing. The people who she is seeing don't have kids and aren't married! Life before all that is better i know that.

I said there's a saying, sometimes you have to lose something to realise what you have, but that i'm not willing to try as it could go wrong and i lose you even though i had hopes of you coming back, she responded with, yeah i know.

Whats going on in her head? Does she want me or someone else? Is there someone else? Has she been faithful? Is she contemplating not being faithful? I just don't know!
I love her so much she is literally all i think about, she knows this but she seems to not take that in, i feel like im on borrowed time and its only a matter of time before she acts, i'd rather call it quits now and get hurt even more if that was the case. I don't know whether she actually wants to separate but is choosing not to as its the easier option.

Another thing i think it may be and its the same for both of use except i dont have these thoughts is, we have both only had 1 previous sexual partner, that's it and im thinking that since her sex drive has gone through the rough is she now wondering what it would be like to sleep with another man and experience it as she hasn't yet, she was only a teen when she first had sex after that im the only man shes had.

I just don't know what to do, do i let her go, try and save it? Can i save it? I love her so much that if she has to go and be single and be adventurous and experience other man then i would, but i wouldn't then reconcile, i just couldn't, it would feel like cheating... I don't even know if she has already, i have asked and she said no and that during sex she said i would never hurt you. I have no way of knowing, even if she had, shes very smart and could hide it very well!

I'm lost

Help :crying:


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I don't think is cheating or wants to. She likely is overwhelmed by kids, however.

Please do not take her words personally and overreact. That will just make you seem like another child she has to soothe. Nothing sexy about that.

Try to develop more inner security and learn to be able to hear her without getting sensitive and reactive to her words. Sensitive men (the kind that take everything personally) can really be draining.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Wow!

Believe her words. No, I do not think she has cheated. But she is very vulnerable.

You had better step up your game. In the bedroom [big time]. Do oral, all different positions, be aggressive. Spend an hour minimum working her in the bedroom.

If you do not, you may lose her.

She almost sounds like she is saying "I love you but I am not in love with you". ILYBINILWY. Not good!

Take her out for date nights. Get a baby sitter. Spend some money and time with her, just the two of you.

It is "panic" time. Believe me. 

Do not let her feel that you have lost confidence. Be strong, even if you are "jello" inside. 

And, she may be looking at porn....or her friends are putting doubt in her mind.

Hurry!!


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## dukey28 (May 10, 2017)

jld said:


> I don't think is cheating or wants to. She likely is overwhelmed by kids, however.
> 
> Please do not take her words personally and overreact. That will just make you seem like another child she has to soothe. Nothing sexy about that.
> 
> Try to develop more inner security and learn to be able to hear her without getting sensitive and reactive to her words. Sensitive men (the kind that take everything personally) can really be draining.


Thank you for your reply, i was dreading it as i didn't want to receive an anti-woman reply.
Inner security is definitely an issue she has said to me that me being insecure is not attractive and i understand that, what she doesn't understand is that i developed it because of what she has said, in the 8 years we have been together, another man hasn't even entered into an argument or a conversation, she even at one point said if i don't stop she will end up cheating on me which didn't help me at all it just got worse...


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## dukey28 (May 10, 2017)

SunCMars said:


> Wow!
> 
> Believe her words. No, I do not think she has cheated. But she is very vulnerable.
> 
> ...


Well, that is the total opposite to the first response, in terms of money, what is that? we have one wage coming in and it all goes out on mortgage and bills, which with no money makes it impossible to spend it, i know thats what i need to do to sort it but with no money its not helping.
You know that feeling where you know what to do but someone is just grabbing you hand stopping you its like that i feel trapped..


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

dukey28 said:


> Well, that is the total opposite to the first response, in terms of money, what is that? we have one wage coming in and it all goes out on mortgage and bills, which with no money makes it impossible to spend it, i know thats what i need to do to sort it but with no money its not helping.
> You know that feeling where you know what to do but someone is just grabbing you hand stopping you its like that i feel trapped..


Don't waste your money on babysitters and date nights.

But do stop blaming your wife for your insecurity.

You have to become stronger in yourself and a better emotional support to her.

Is she working right now? Does she make a family supporting wage?


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## dukey28 (May 10, 2017)

jld said:


> Don't waste your money on babysitters and date nights.
> 
> But do stop blaming your wife for your insecurity.
> 
> ...


She doesn't work but she has an offer lined up and we are in the UK and get Child Tax Credit which does help but we don't really see it...


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

dukey28 said:


> She doesn't work but she has an offer lined up and we are in the UK and get Child Tax Credit which does help but we don't really see it...


What is the offer? What line of work is she in?


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## dukey28 (May 10, 2017)

jld said:


> What is the offer? What line of work is she in?


Sales administration, in terms of salary, that is being discussed. i dont know whether she just needs some time to be normal, i know i have work to do on my part too. I just want to be right for her.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

OP, I'm going to be brutally honest with you. Based in what you wrote, I think she's struggling to be attracted to you. For whatever reason, you are not lighting her fire or producing those heart flutters, and she's probably thinking of someone else when you're having sex. Ouch, I know, but I'm only making an assumption based on what you wrote. 

Are you attractive? Have you put on weight? Have you become boring and predictable? 

It sounds like she wants to make an effort to get the spark back, but she is disappointed in you and can't seem to see past that. Her telling you she might get excited by someone else.... Ouch... I don't blame you for losing your libido then and there. But take away the message of that statement. Is there truth in it? 

Think about when you were dating... The kind of man you were then compared to now. Children changes things, but you should still fundamentally be the man she married and she should be the woman you married. Sometimes it takes greater effort to keep those aspects of your personality alive under the burden of children, work, and life.


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## dukey28 (May 10, 2017)

Satya said:


> OP, I'm going to be brutally honest with you. Based in what you wrote, I think she's struggling to be attracted to you. For whatever reason, you are not lighting her fire or producing those heart flutters, and she's probably thinking of someone else when you're having sex. Ouch, I know, but I'm only making an assumption based on what you wrote.
> 
> Are you attractive? Have you put on weight? Have you become boring and predictable?
> 
> ...


It hard to so im attractive as i would never judge myself like that, in terms of my body i go to the gym and lift i have put weight on but she loves that i'm getting bigger, im a small build and im making a change so my body is in better shape again she likes that. Maybe i don't know how to use what i have...


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Wow, for someone to say to their spouse that they want sex but not with them is quite honestly appalling, no wonder you feel insecure. Its cruel and mean and incredibly hurtful. That must have so damaged your manhood. 

I alse don't think its the lack of partners either, many are in happy marriages who have only ever had sex with their spouse. 
Please also tell her that facebook etc doesn't show real life, its a very false picture of what peoples lives are like. Also that having small children isn't exciting but its so worthwhile and other women manage, I had three children. This stage will pass all too fast. 

She has a strong case of the 'grass is always greener' and that's very dangerous for a marriage as is discontentment. 
It may help if you get some good marriage counseling because unless she changes her attitude she will cheat and you and your childrens lives will be greatly damaged.


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## dukey28 (May 10, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> Wow, for someone to say to their spouse that they want sex but not with them is quite honestly appalling, no wonder you feel insecure. Its cruel and mean and incredibly hurtful. That must have so damaged your manhood.
> 
> I alse don't think its the lack of partners either, many are in happy marriages who have only ever had sex with their spouse.
> Please also tell her that facebook etc doesn't show real life, its a very false picture of what peoples lives are like. Also that having small children isn't exciting but its so worthwhile and other women manage, I had three children. This stage will pass all too fast.
> ...


Well this is what i'm afraid of, i mean shes being open about it and i appreciate that its just i don't understand what i can do, i am me and it sounds like im not good enough anymore.
In terms of damaging my manhood yes, yes it did it hurt, i just don't think she realises. I'm not saying shes an awful person thats not what im trying to do, shes amazing after all shes the mother of my boys and chose to raise them instead of working, but sometimes i think she can also be a bit insensitive, but if i say it hurts, she sees it as weakness, i suppose every woman is different...


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

dukey28 said:


> Well this is what i'm afraid of, i mean shes being open about it and i appreciate that its just i don't understand what i can do, i am me and it sounds like im not good enough anymore.
> In terms of damaging my manhood yes, yes it did it hurt, i just don't think she realises. I'm not saying shes an awful person thats not what im trying to do, shes amazing after all shes the mother of my boys and chose to raise them instead of working, but sometimes i think she can also be a bit insensitive, but if i say it hurts, she sees it as weakness, i suppose every woman is different...


That is why it would help you to not take her words personally, but to understand the feeling behind them.

You want her to be honest with you, right? Not hide her feelings from you?

Then you have to be able to hear it when she does.


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## Don't Panic (Apr 2, 2017)

Satya said:


> OP, I'm going to be brutally honest with you. Based in what you wrote, I think she's struggling to be attracted to you. For whatever reason, you are not lighting her fire or producing those heart flutters, and she's probably thinking of someone else when you're having sex. Ouch, I know, but I'm only making an assumption based on what you wrote.
> 
> Are you attractive? Have you put on weight? Have you become boring and predictable?
> 
> ...



It's this. And while her delivery of the message was terribly harsh (perhaps out of frustration?) she is TELLING you what the problem is. 
She's losing her attraction to you, but you can certainly up your game...she WANTS YOU TO UP YOUR GAME. 

Twin toddlers are little libido killers. She needs strength, excitement, and absolutely yes, CONFIDENCE from you so that she feels attracted and sexual towards you...and not simply a mother to THREE (you do see who the third child is right?) 

This stage of parenting that you're in, it changes the marital/sexual dynamic and it will require insight and work on your part if you wish to keep your marriage happily humming along inside and outside of the bedroom. Hint-don't regulate activities to just the bedroom lol, now is the time to get creative! > She's asking for this.

Check out this thread here on TAM "Be a Better Man, Be a Better Partner" It's a wealth of info for someone in your situation.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

dukey28 said:


> Well this is what i'm afraid of, i mean shes being open about it and i appreciate that its just i don't understand what i can do, i am me and it sounds like im not good enough anymore.
> In terms of damaging my manhood yes, yes it did it hurt, i just don't think she realises. I'm not saying shes an awful person thats not what im trying to do, shes amazing after all shes the mother of my boys and chose to raise them instead of working, but sometimes i think she can also be a bit insensitive, but if i say it hurts, she sees it as weakness, i suppose every woman is different...


All I can say is that I would never ever say such cruel things to my husband. I wonder how she would feel if you said that you would rather have sex with another woman that her. No you are not being over sensitive, she is being tactless and mean and very disrespectful. If you saw a marriage counsellor I would hope that she would say the same to her. 

If my husband said the things to me that your wife has said to you, I would call that emotional abuse and think seriously if I wanted to be with such a insensitive and cruel person any more. I would be deeply hurt. :frown2:


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

If you see a sex therapist, one of the things which will probably be suggested is role play. Many people don't think role play is morally correct. Oh well. I enjoy it, and it makes monogamy a walk in the park. My wife enjoys it tremendously. 

I suspect your wife would enjoy it. Perhaps you should consider figuring out why you don't like the idea of giving it a try. 

My wife said something once when the idea of chasing her fantasies in reality came up, by some moralistic prig. Mary just laughed and said why would she bother trying to turn her fantasies into reality. Mary said, "Reality can't possibly measure up to fantasies!"

But still, many people will say if you think about something it's as bad as actually doing it. I think she had her fill of that line back when she was young.


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## Don't Panic (Apr 2, 2017)

"_She kept trying to have sex but i for some reason just couldn't get her going, she said i was just rushing. she then laid on the bed and said i want sex but maybe just not with you, *what are you going to do to make me want you?* At this point i was totally not interested. I then responded, that comment has put me in a funny mood, i don't even want to try. My confidence just dropped to 0, that comment did nothing for my ego never mind my sexual desire. *She then said i was just trying a bit of role play.* That type of role play is definitely not what i want. I hate it and i told her this. Imagining my wife with another man just makes me sick to the stomach and i feel angry and heartbroken inside. Was she doing role play or was she actually being truthful?"
_

Again, I interpret this as her immature, inexperienced, inappropriate way of TRYING to tell you she wants you to be more aggressive and creative sexually. I really don't think she was truly saying she wants to be with a different man. Quality women at this stage of motherhood are very protective of the family unit. Quite understandably, you might be processing what she said incorrectly. This in turn will actually have the opposite effect of what she was hoping to achieve in your relationship (you became depressed, needy, insecure). And if I'm correct, it's actually what YOU hope to achieve too! IF you can get your head in the right place, this could be a win-win situation for you both. 

Also in your favor, you are young, this new disappointing dynamic you both feel can be turned around quickly. No patterns have been set in stone....yet. You can fix this!


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Think hard about what you wrote and then flip the gender. It is funny you said "anti-woman," but it is quite telling. No one would tell a woman not to worry or she is being insecure if her husband said


> she then laid on the bed and said i want sex but maybe just not with you, what are you going to do to make me want you? At this point i was totally not interested. I then responded, that comment has put me in a funny mood, i don't even want to try. My confidence just dropped to 0, that comment did nothing for my ego never mind my sexual desire. She then said i was just trying a bit of role play. That type of role play is definitely not what i want. I hate it and i told her this. Imagining my wife with another man just makes me sick to the stomach and i feel angry and heartbroken inside. Was she doing role play or was she actually being truthful?
> 
> I've explained how i feel about it before yet it still comes out, she says im being insecure as about a month ago i had doubts about if she was going to continue being faithful as she had mentioned in an argument that she has even started thinking about being with someone else and she said she shouldn't have to. This sparked all sorts of things in my head.


I do not think she has cheated, but she just told you she wasn't attracted to you. It doesn't matter if she has or hasn't cheated. I can get you posts from multiple women who have said, one is currently posting, how loss of attractions slowly or quickly leads to no sex and relationship problems. Let's make sure we remember something, she put this thought into your head, it isn't you snooping, spying. checking or being clingy. Also, she said it during sex. Don't let anyone flip this onto you as your fault. Now, there may be other problems in the marriage which are your fault and need to be addressed, but timing is everything and this specific issue isn't you being insecure.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

dukey28 said:


> Well, that is the total opposite to the first response, in terms of money, what is that? we have one wage coming in and it all goes out on mortgage and bills, which with no money makes it impossible to spend it, i know thats what i need to do to sort it but with no money its not helping.
> You know that feeling where you know what to do but someone is just grabbing you hand stopping you its like that i feel trapped..



I understand that situation. When we first got married, we did not have two nickles to rub together.

Do budget dating. Going to buffets, take her out for a long walk with ice cream afterwords.

Take her and the kids to the zoo, the beach, to outdoor concerts, county fairs, tubing or canoeing down the river. Go to flea markets, a nearby mall and a movie afterwords. Buy a super economy car and do short trips, stopping at anything interesting.

Take her on picnics. Feed her stomach, then her love button afterwords in some secluded glen in a state park.


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## 23cm (Dec 3, 2016)

Your wife is what's known as a "castrating woman." Google it, a psychological term. And, you may find this article interesting: Are You Emotionally Castrating Your Man? - I Love My LSI


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

dukey28 said:


> In terms of damaging my manhood yes, yes it did it hurt, i just don't think she realizes. I'm not saying shes an awful person thats not what im trying to do, shes amazing after all shes the mother of my boys and chose to raise them instead of working, but sometimes *i think she can also be a bit insensitive, but if i say it hurts, she sees it as weakness, i suppose every woman is different...*


A bit insensitive? Wow.

Some women may have similar thoughts as your wife, but they either bite their lip, or they couch the words in a more tactful manner.

My wife is a nervous Tiger....yours' is a hungry Leopard. Both are cats, but there is a big difference in how they handle their spouse, how they handle stress and their immediate needs. 

Yours seems to lack empathy. This is NOT something that can be an add-on after counseling, even after maturing. You can learn tact, cannot learn loving others for who they are.

You need to fake your home persona. You may need to be Jude Law at home. If you practice a way of talking, smiling, responding you can make yourself more desirable. Find some actor that you admire and learn his mannerisms.


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

She is cruel and trying to hurt you. I would up my game, NOT FOR HER BUT FOR YOU. After saying those things to me I would up my game, work on myself and act like if she is not on board with the relationship you will be in a position physically and emotionally to find someone who is on board. Don't put up with that kind of manipulation from ANYONE, ESPECIALLY someone who is supposed to be your greatest ally. Do not be emotionally dependent on her......She will sense the power over you and it will destroy you. TAKE CHARGE OF YOU!


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

jld said:


> That is why it would help you to not take her words personally, but to understand the feeling behind them.
> 
> You want her to be honest with you, right? Not hide her feelings from you?
> 
> Then you have to be able to hear it when she does.


I am holding back, I am holding back, I am holding back!

OKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKAY @%^#$

You want her to be honest with you. Uh, huh! Yes.

How about if she leaves the guy's nuts alone.
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

What if he told her:

Hey wife, you stink in bed, you do not turn me on. I am thinking about getting a girlfriend. Stop pouting, it makes you so unattractive.

He was honest with her..........so freaking honest. What an honest and open guy he is, right? 

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

Don't defend bad behavior AT ANY COST. Or, to win an argument.

There is a limit on everything. She tripped the limit switch. Forward motion is halted.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Don't get into this debate SC, it has derailed many a thread with a man looking for help and advice. She has said multiple insulting things about her attraction to him, his sex prowess and fantasizing about other men. She then used them as threats and manipulation. He has every right to be angry, hurt, insecure and doesn't need to "not take her words personally." 

Your spouse is the one you are supposed to listen to and take their words personally. I'm the random person the OP can ignore and not take personally.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Don't get into this debate SC, it has derailed many a thread with a man looking for help and advice. *She has said multiple insulting things about her attraction to him, his sex prowess and fantasizing about other men. She then used them as threats and manipulation. He has every right to be angry, hurt, insecure and doesn't need to "NOT take her words personally." *
> 
> Your spouse is the one you are supposed to listen to and take their words personally. I'm the random person the OP can ignore and not take personally.


Thanks!

Good Advice!


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## dukey28 (May 10, 2017)

Thank you all for all of your help in trying to understand this situation, some replies were a little more harsh shall i say and a lot of fingers were pointed just at me as though i was just the issue.
The thing that annoys me is the fact that everything seems to be down to the man, if there's a problem its the man. It was nice to see some support on my side and that by me being insecure i wasn't just being stupid about it all.

To give you all a bit of an update.

We talked last night about what was said, i explained that i hate feeling like i don't know what she wants, one minute im great and attractive the next im not and someone else would be better. I asked are you actually attracted to me in terms of appearance, i asked this to try and narrow down the issue, she said yes shes very attracted to me, she said i mean look at your body you are fit as f**k (UK term for sexy). I followed this by well is it the way i act that's unattractive, do i need to be more assertive, aggressive? She said no i love how you are you are confident, quite cocky (not sure if you use this word in the US but its another spin on confident) and i love that. I said ok i don't get i then, do you love me? She said yes a lot. Do you still want to be married to me? She said jokingly i suppose so playing with that idea and moved close to her and said will you be my wife please? she played along and said yes. 

I asked what happened then the other night as this was an actual discussion we had and you talked about wanting another man e.t.c... and it made me upset because i want her to want me not someone else, she said she does only want me.

She then continued to explain that problem is not me and it's actually her, she had a bad day with the kids and i'd done something to annoy her that day and she was just in a bad mood, she didn't mean any of what she said and she is very happy with me, she was just in a funny mood. I then started to tell her some of the things she had said about wanting sex just not with me, she said she cannot remember saying it, she did get a migraine that night and she does go all weird so i just put it down to that. She said the twins are just so hard that there's never a good day. I suppose she just cant see past it, she said she can't wait to hear back from this job offer. I think she just wants to be herself again and not just be a mummy all the time.

She said she does want sex with me but for some reason she doesn't have the sex drive. The thing is she can think about us having sex and she just gets flustered and wants it, she has told me so many time how good i am(i am a giver, someone suggested oral I DO IT, and i have told her i LOVE doing it , i have suggested doing oral while she is on all fours instead and this i want to do.) but if she doesn't have the drive to start it she gets frustrated and tries that hard to get things started that there's too much pressure and i can feel that too, hence the performance side of things just doesn't click with me.

She said she wishes we could go off for the day to the beach but then she thinks well i want our kids with us and do it as a family.

We do get time together but the problem with that is its during the day time, and when you haven't got the kids and its day time, she wants to get jobs done you can't do with the kids around.
I then went on to say well we need to make time for adult time then, we will get our parents to come and baby sit the kids and we will go out at night have a meal some drinks and have a good time because i can't remember the last time we went out as a couple.

She then remembered a meal we had, it was just her and myself, we walked there had a lovely set dinner, had drinks, got a little merry, and we walked back home and i was giving her a piggy back and just acting like kids again and she said she loved that night. she said but that restaurant is just so expensive we cant do that often. I said well, every Saturday night we get a take away and spend so much just to waste it, why don't we instead use that money and go out at night and be adults to start have drinks and go all immature just have a good time, there are cheaper places (that place is over priced for what it is) there is a steak night ever Thursday we could go there or go to the restaurant that has deals on that we take the kids to sometimes, it's a different atmosphere at night.

She was happy with this suggestion so this is what we are going to do.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Betrayedone said:


> She is cruel and trying to hurt you. I would up my game, NOT FOR HER BUT FOR YOU. After saying those things to me I would up my game, work on myself and act like if she is not on board with the relationship you will be in a position physically and emotionally to find someone who is on board. Don't put up with that kind of manipulation from ANYONE, ESPECIALLY someone who is supposed to be your greatest ally. Do not be emotionally dependent on her......She will sense the power over you and it will destroy you. TAKE CHARGE OF YOU!


I like this post for everything after the first sentence.

Many people are saying she's deliberately trying to be cruel. In order to arrive at that conclusion, one has to project intentions upon her. Frankly, we have no idea why she is doing what she is doing other than the words she has given to the OP.

My take on this situation is that she is bored, and wants a little bit of adventure. While she could have chosen better words, at least she is being honest with you.

If it were me, I would work on upping my game immediately. To reinforce the quoted post, I would make sure that I am doing it for me, and not for her. Be the absolute best man that you can be; the man who earns the respect and admiration of himself because he is living his life to the fullest and within the principles that matter to him. If she wants that man, awesome. If she doesn't, her loss, and time to move on.

Trying to win a woman's heart is a fool's errand. When you try to win a woman, you have a tendency to do things that are outside of your normal behavior. Then once you have won, you tend to fall back into old patterns. Following this, she wonders what happened to the man she fell for, and you wonder what happened to the woman who thought you walked on water.

So...if being more adventurous is something that you have an interest in doing, or is within your wheelhouse, then do it. If you have no interest in being that type of man, be honest enough to tell her.

The absolute worst thing you can do in this situation is act like a kicked puppy over her words. Yes, they hurt. However, let it be a call to action. That action is to up your game, and she either responds, or you are setting yourself up for the next woman in your life. It really is that simple.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> The absolute worst thing you can do in this situation is act like a kicked puppy over her words.


So true. Nothing inspiring about a guy who takes every last female emotion personally.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Sounds like you failed an entire battery of fitness tests (Google that).

Damn.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Yep. These were fitness tests, which are cruel. Anyway, have her talk to a doctor and check depression as well, don't just excuse and accept the behavior because of a migraine. I get the occasional migraine my wife is diagnosed with them, this is WAY outside the box and to specific to be explained by a migraine IMO. She now realizes it hurt you so, she is going to smooth it over. No, do not revisit it because you have settled the issue. Remember addressing a problem is one thing, don't mix it with acting like a kicked puppy. In other words, explaining why her words annoyed or angered you, in a non-confrontational manner, is okay. Complaining, whining, begging, moping around the house, refusing sex and crying are kicked puppy actions.


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## TheRealMcCoy (Apr 13, 2017)

dukey28 said:


> I love her so much she is literally all i think about, she knows this but she seems to not take that in



Buckle up friend. You are in for a ride. I'm not saying it's the case here, necessarily. But I remember the free fall I was feeling when everything didn't make sense. 

"I love her so much, and I KNOW she loves me just as much. But why does it seem like she..."

And I will say it AGAIN!!! You found out while you were young. LEARN FROM THIS. Lick your wounds and move on. You get a do-over. I envy you.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Your wife is having a fairly normal reaction to a lack of romance and non-sexual intimacy in your relationship.

Could you answer this question? How many hours a week do you and your wife spend together, just the two of you in quality time: going on dates; engaged in a joint activity that both of you enjoy; going for walks, holding hands & talking; or just hanging out and cuddling; and having sex?


This is completely fixable. Get the books "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs". Read them together (LB first) and do the work that they say to do. 

Your lives have changed forever with the twins, yet to two of you apparently did not mindfully adjust your relationship for the significant changes brought on by children. And now you both are feeling the fallout of you both neglecting your relationship.

The things your wife is saying might be hurtful to you, but she is reaching out to you and trying to express what she is feeling. Clearly she is confused and has no idea what is going on in her head. All she knows is that she's hurting, confused, etc. Why? Because you two of virtually no relationship left.

Fix it. It is very fixable.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Being tired or having a migraine is NO excuse to say such hurtful and cruel things to our partner. I would be devastated if my husband said those things to me, and I suspect that your wife would as well. Then she has the cheek to say that you are being too sensitive. Words like that hurt deeply and damage the marriage. I hope she grows up soon.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

To lack passion, be frustrated, be tired and everything else after taking care of the children is normal. Being snippy and put off is as well. Heck seeing all the people having fun, who are single, while she takes care of the kids I get as well. Her reactions about other men is not. 


Her go to wasn't any of the reasons everyone is filling in for you, she said:


> She said sometimes she thinks would it be better if she found someone else, would she be happy, she said im happy now with you just not 100%. She said she loves me and that even if she did find someone else that she would never love them as much as me.





> she then laid on the bed and said i want sex but maybe just not with you, what are you going to do to make me want you?





> She then said i was just trying a bit of role play.


Sorry, nope, leaping to introducing another sex partner in the marriage, under the guise of role play, is far from normal. Then magically forgetting this serious conversation because of a migraine isn't normal either.

It's a hard road ahead and some of the women posting constantly post a phrase which goes basically states "once a woman loses attraction, it is hard to get back." Yes, it is fixable, but do not think for a moment you can push it to the side based on "migraines."


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> To lack passion, be frustrated, be tired and everything else after taking care of the children is normal. Being snippy and put off is as well. Heck seeing all the people having fun, who are single, while she takes care of the kids I get as well. Her reactions about other men is not.
> 
> 
> Her go to wasn't any of the reasons everyone is filling in for you, she said:
> ...


I don't think she's lost attraction, though. If she had, I don't think she'd be willing to have sex at all.

She just sounds bored to me.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> I like this post for everything after the first sentence.
> 
> Many people are saying she's deliberately trying to be cruel. In order to arrive at that conclusion, one has to project intentions upon her. Frankly, we have no idea why she is doing what she is doing other than the words she has given to the OP.
> 
> ...




Yes all very true. 
Also true that it is fixable. I do think she chose her words poorly the first time around.
It is normal for sex life to go through lulls between couples. We have been through an episode like this. 

@dukey28
Just one comment on 'role play' and sex with someone else etc (because I know this is like poison to men). What I think might have happened there is that she didn't like the way she was feeling and perhaps wanted to distance herself, from herself. (Role play is actually a great way to make things more interesting). And also projected her frustration with herself, onto you, which is not really fair I agree. 

The way your second conversation went, sounds almost word for word like one of our conversations (and the reason it made me want to write this post because I now see an obvious fix) when my wife also came out with the 'role play' idea and it broke my balls, not just the heart, so to speak. Though to be fair she did not say she thought about sex with someone else but I could feel that she was struggling getting herself interested and involved in sex and needed additional mind games like role play that I concluded myself that it's not me, she wants to have sex with but probably someone else. This was all between births of our kids and I'm sure hormones played a big part too.

In fact they still do. It sometimes shocks me how dependent we can be on hormones (is she on the pill btw? (Either way, watch out for the dreaded PMS week, that's when it's much harder to accomplish anything. Sorry, I know many women will hate what I have written here but it is true for our relationship and worth bearing in mind).

So the fix:
It is true you can make yourself more 'desirable'. Try for example be more assertive in bed. Some women enjoy it if you actually act as if you 'disregard' their pleasures and act more selfishly in bed (I know it sounds counter intuitive). Many more women are responsive desire rather than spontaneous desire, meaning they need to feel strongly that sexual desire is radiating from you, towards her, and you need to show that you are not just going to wait till she is horny but that because you are longing for her so much, you'd be willing to disregard whether she's horny or not and take her anyway. It's a mind game. (It took me some time to figure out the psychology and mindset behind it but once you figure it out, the problems just disappear like magic). What you don't want to happen is both of you sitting on the bed waiting for either of you to become aroused: biggest libido killer ever!

You mentioned oral sex: it's all great etc but you need to make it more about your desire for her and show it (which doesn't mean you should stop with the oral, quite the contrary: but for example if she tells you that she's not sure she'll be able to come from oral today: tell her that you don't mind, that you have been thinking about giving her oral all day and she needs to let you do it, for you, not for her). Some women hate it being in the spotlight of sexual attention because of expectation that they need to come at a certain point etc...

Same with sex: tell her you can't wait to jump her bones and _need_ to be inside. That you don't care if she's horny or not - you just really need it with her, for YOU (in a nice but assertive way).

The dynamic needs to change. I found out my wife's sex drive is a bit like an echo of my own. But mine needs to project first for hers to resonate as well! 

You can change it.

If this all completely fails: come back for advice. Because this obviously won't work at all if someone genuinely is not attracted to them or if there are other issues. It will work miracles for an 'indecisive' libido which I suspect hers is, currently.

I think you are gonna be ok.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

jld said:


> I don't think she's lost attraction, though. If she had, I don't think she'd be willing to have sex at all.
> 
> She just sounds bored to me.


Ah yes, there is no such thing as duty sex. Okay, we will just have to disagree based on what we read.


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## dukey28 (May 10, 2017)

Thank you everyone for your advice, the third page of this thread has been even more helpful and last night whilst walking the dog i had a think and the conclusion i came to was the same that was mentioned by inmyprime its the assertiveness that's lacking so i did a little test and got the reaction i thought i would have. I need to be more selfish and think about my sexual needs and not just hers be more aggressive, i tried this last night and it worked, she got turned on a little, nothing happened though apart from some trouser kisses ;-) (BJ) which was actually nice to receive for a change and i felt in charge, my ego was boosted and she knew it.

She said she did it because she felt like she had to because i was being assertive and she liked that.

She also talked about how she is jealous of the fact that i go to the gym to better myself physically and i look great and shes feels she doesn't, she feels fat and not sexually confident, she doesn't feel sexy. I told her that i think she's sexy and seeing her naked and even just being close to her makes me just want to be inside her, but when you are in that mentality it doesn't register i guess,i know how that feels, if you physically change your mental health changes with it.

We will see what will happen,i would like to keep this thread going and i will keep updating.

It's gone from talking about other men to although she is attracted to some men (she did told me this last night, not sure why? Although it is normal some women are to me) she doesn't want to go and have sex with them or be with them because she said im her husband and we are great together and shes attracted to way more than anyone, she only wants me.

I was still left a little puzzled why she is still mentioning it after discussing what she did, im guessing there is some sort of positive message in there, im just unsure which part...


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

dukey28 said:


> Thank you everyone for your advice, the third page of this thread has been even more helpful and last night whilst walking the dog i had a think and the conclusion i came to was the same that was mentioned by inmyprime its the assertiveness that's lacking so i did a little test and got the reaction i thought i would have. I need to be more selfish and think about my sexual needs and not just hers be more aggressive, i tried this last night and it worked, she got turned on a little, nothing happened though apart from some trouser kisses ;-) (BJ) which was actually nice to receive for a change and i felt in charge, my ego was boosted and she knew it.
> 
> She said she did it because she felt like she had to because i was being assertive and she liked that.
> 
> ...


Dukey,

First, lets start out with your wife. When a woman starts talking like she is you better understand, although you do not want to hear it, that if there is no other man right now, she IS thinking about it and IS vulnerable. She came close to giving you the "I love you but I am not in love with you" line, which is often the first indication that her lust love is directed elsewhere.

Now having fantasies about others is NOT abnormal, but fantasies are just that. They sometimes never should be acted upon. Unfortunately, I would bet if you offered ( not suggesting you do it) an open marriage she would jump at it in a moment. You need to if you can get it paid for by insurance see a sex therapist to try to get her to open up saw to what is going on in her head.

A woman who does not get zero used by her husband at all is either disconnected in some way or emotionally feels she is cheating on her lover so hubby all of a sudden becomes not exciting. I know you do not want to consider that, no one does, but denial is your worst enemy. Do not believe wholeheartedly that she has no interest in sex with another man. That is the downfall of many men. They refuse to believe what is in their minds before it is too late.

If I were you, I would taste a small step and check your phone records and computer history to see if strange numbers or websites are popping up constantly. That is not costly at all .

And lastly, your expressed behavior and all the begging and pleading does nothing but make you appear clingy. You do not have to become a cave man, but doing what is called the "pick me "game is the absolute worst possible route you can take. And you need to make it clear, without making it threatening, that you will not participate in a marriage with more than two people in it, and if she crosses that line electronically or physically there will not be an Olsen marriage accepted. She must believe that or she will continue to test you.


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## dukey28 (May 10, 2017)

straightshooter said:


> Dukey,
> 
> First, lets start out with your wife. When a woman starts talking like she is you better understand, although you do not want to hear it, that if there is no other man right now, she IS thinking about it and IS vulnerable. She came close to giving you the "I love you but I am not in love with you" line, which is often the first indication that her lust love is directed elsewhere.
> 
> ...


Everything she does is on her phone, shes on it a lot and i've mentioned this before, she spends way too much time on it. She has multiple social media accounts, Facebook, Instagram and the dreaded SnapChat where every thing is private even messages, they delete after a set amount of time never to be seen again so there is a very good chance if anything is going on its on that App where all proof is gone! She does just leave her phone lying around shes not possessive over it to the point where it doesn't leave her hand. I'am curious as to whether any sort of conversation that has been suggestive has been happened, but i bet i will never find out, that i will have to deal with i suppose... Social media and technology in general is our worst enemy now days...


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## Don't Panic (Apr 2, 2017)

"Yes all very true. 
Also true that it is fixable. I do think she chose her words poorly the first time around.
It is normal for sex life to go through lulls between couples. We have been through an episode like this. 
@dukey28
Just one comment on 'role play' and sex with someone else etc (because I know this is like poison to men). What I think might have happened there is that she didn't like the way she was feeling and perhaps wanted to distance herself, from herself. (Role play is actually a great way to make things more interesting). And also projected her frustration with herself, onto you, which is not really fair I agree. 

The way your second conversation went, sounds almost word for word like one of our conversations (and the reason it made me want to write this post because I now see an obvious fix) when my wife also came out with the 'role play' idea and it broke my balls, not just the heart, so to speak. Though to be fair she did not say she thought about sex with someone else but I could feel that she was struggling getting herself interested and involved in sex and needed additional mind games like role play that I concluded myself that it's not me, she wants to have sex with but probably someone else. This was all between births of our kids and I'm sure hormones played a big part too.

In fact they still do. It sometimes shocks me how dependent we can be on hormones (is she on the pill btw? (Either way, watch out for the dreaded PMS week, that's when it's much harder to accomplish anything. Sorry, I know many women will hate what I have written here but it is true for our relationship and worth bearing in mind).

So the fix:
It is true you can make yourself more 'desirable'. Try for example be more assertive in bed. Some women enjoy it if you actually act as if you 'disregard' their pleasures and act more selfishly in bed (I know it sounds counter intuitive). Many more women are responsive desire rather than spontaneous desire, meaning they need to feel strongly that sexual desire is radiating from you, towards her, and you need to show that you are not just going to wait till she is horny but that because you are longing for her so much, you'd be willing to disregard whether she's horny or not and take her anyway. It's a mind game. (It took me some time to figure out the psychology and mindset behind it but once you figure it out, the problems just disappear like magic). What you don't want to happen is both of you sitting on the bed waiting for either of you to become aroused: biggest libido killer ever!

You mentioned oral sex: it's all great etc but you need to make it more about your desire for her and show it (which doesn't mean you should stop with the oral, quite the contrary: but for example if she tells you that she's not sure she'll be able to come from oral today: tell her that you don't mind, that you have been thinking about giving her oral all day and she needs to let you do it, for you, not for her). Some women hate it being in the spotlight of sexual attention because of expectation that they need to come at a certain point etc...

Same with sex: tell her you can't wait to jump her bones and need to be inside. That you don't care if she's horny or not - you just really need it with her, for YOU (in a nice but assertive way).

The dynamic needs to change. I found out my wife's sex drive is a bit like an echo of my own. But mine needs to project first for hers to resonate as well! 

You can change it.

If this all completely fails: come back for advice. Because this obviously won't work at all if someone genuinely is not attracted to them or if there are other issues. It will work miracles for an 'indecisive' libido which I suspect hers is, currently.

I think you are gonna be ok."


*
BRILLIANT* advice from @inmyprime. 

And it sounds like it paid off well for you after walking the dog. "Trouser kisses" > 

You felt assertive, in control, confident...and she responded positively. You took her head out of the mommy zone momentarily. Good for you! Keep turning the heat up _*exactly*_ like that, incrementally. DON'T tell her what you are doing. Be experimental and playful. Enjoy the results :smile2:


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

SunCMars said:


> Wow!
> 
> Believe her words. No, I do not think she has cheated. But she is very vulnerable.
> 
> ...


*This!

The responsibility of the kids has her feeling literally painted into the corner and just lashing out at you!

Please take SunC's advice before it is way too late!*


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

dukey28 said:


> Everything she does is on her phone, shes on it a lot and i've mentioned this before, she spends way too much time on it. She has multiple social media accounts, Facebook, Instagram and the dreaded SnapChat where every thing is private even messages, they delete after a set amount of time never to be seen again so there is a very good chance if anything is going on its on that App where all proof is gone! She does just leave her phone lying around shes not possessive over it to the point where it doesn't leave her hand. I'am curious as to whether any sort of conversation that has been suggestive has been happened, but i bet i will never find out, that i will have to deal with i suppose... Social media and technology in general is our worst enemy now days...


OK Dukey, you mentioning it accomplishes nothing but makes her more careful. If you google "signs your wife is cheating" guarding the phone ( you say she is not) and inordinate time on social media apps, especially untracable ones, is not good.

Based on that alone, putting a VAR in her car will give you what you want to know in less than a week. Women talk much more than men about their social life. If she has been in any kind of inappropriate conversation on apps with another man, she will be talking to him in her car because she thinks you are not able to find out. If any of her girlfriends are in on the knowledge of this, she will also be talking to them.

now before you go guilting yourself about invading her privacy, let me remind you that your gut brought you to a forum of strangers, most of whom have been touched by infidelity in some way, and the old saying here is TRUST YOUR GUT!!! i recommend that to you because if she is in the beginning stages of an EA or having inappropriate contact with other men, you are going to kick yourself in the ass when you find out and realize as many do that the signs were there and you chose NOT to act our of chivalry.


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## rsexton (Jul 27, 2016)

As a mom of three boys i can relate on the craziness kids bring to a relationship. As a wife who is more traditional as in housework, cooking, cleaning, kids needs, homeschool plus running a business i too feel as she does. Where u just want to walk away and breathe. 

She may need you to say...hey i will watch the kids while you shop for groceries or while you go to the gym or even just watch a movie with a friend. 

She needs some space and some alone time. Ask her if that will help her. 

Ask her what she needs instead of guessing. Ask her what you can do to help her. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## teach727 (Nov 16, 2016)

I am probably not the best person to give advice (I am going through a divorce after 3 yrs of marriage), but I can't help but respond to your post. Based on what you said I agree with another person on here who said it seems your wife thinks "the grass is greener on the other side." This is exactly what I began thinking right before my husband told me he no longer wanted to be with me. Then I found out he met someone else. I'm not sure if your wife is cheating, but she is comparing what she has to what other people have which is NOT FAIR! She is not being grateful for everything she has. Honestly, I would love to be married and have twins right now - hardships and all! Children are a huge blessing and they grow up too fast (I'm also a kindergarten teacher :laugh. To have a husband who loves me and my children would be wonderful and that is what she has, but she is looking over the fence and people on social media. The people who she is comparing her relationship to are probably not even happy! Social media alters reality as we all know. Instead she should be focused on her family and her loving husband and find a way to reconnect with him. You guys are not connected - this can be fixed, but both people have to be willing.

I really feel for you because, like myself, there is very little you can do. I tried to make my husband happy - his job took him away from our home - which did not help. We hardly spent anytime together. But the little time we did have I tried to focus on him and do things that he wanted. The only advice I can really give is to spend time with her. Make life exciting by going out or surprising her with things around the house. Maybe take some of the house work off of her - even though I know this is probably hard for you because you work. I feel as though you are willing to do anything to make your marriage better - this is how I felt - but ultimately we cannot force someone to appreciate what they have and to be happy. Unfortunately for her, she may have to find out the hard way. I hope she doesn't choose to lose one of the biggest blessings in her life.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

> she then laid on the bed and said i want sex but maybe just not with you





> she had mentioned in an argument that she has even started thinking about being with someone else and she said she shouldn't have to.





> she even at one point said if i don't stop she will end up cheating on me which didn't help me at all it just got worse...



This isn't just one slip of the tongue. It sounds like she is setting up a scenario where when she cheats it will all be your fault. Whether it is intentional like an exit affair or she is just too naive to see the "warts and all" that are in everyone's relationship no matter what they post on social media, the end result is the same even if she realizes it's a mistake after she cheats. You really need to try to open her eyes to the facade that is social media and make her appreciate what she has before she does something that will cause irreparable damage.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

These threats.
These threats of hers.

She is thinking of other men and having sex with them?

She is wringing her hands and ringing your bell. Trying to get a rise out of you. Higher than the usual 6.

She's quite a manipulator...."man" lip you there. Nip you with the lippy quips.

She acts insecure outwardly....her weight issues, her beauty issues. You looking good to other women, issues.

Inwardly? She is a hungry minx. She wants to keep you off guard and fearful. 

As others have said, she also wants you to take charge. 

You walk a tight path in bare feet. She has taken your running shoes and pitched them. 

One side of the path has broken glass, the other rejection and the threat of LackaNooky. 

When she is fast asleep, deep in REM land, gently remove her hand from your sack. 

Take that hand and put it in a bowl of ice water. Let the games begin.

What men go through for sex !!


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Best estimate: There is an alpha chimp flirting with her using player 101. Not sure or not she has actually done anything. From the things I read I lean against an actual affair. He is way better than you in some respect or another. Might be rich. Might be a bad boy. May be a literal 10 in looks. Who knows. Probably something you cannot do or fix.

Weve seen this multiple times where the female has or contemplates affair with a male who has one thing her husband simply cannot provide even though he gives her 9 of 10 of her needs.

Oh and stop failing sh!t (fitness) tests. One thing to NOT do is look weak. Note not weak does not mean not listening to her.


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

I think she is feeling isolated and stressed with seeing you get to leave the house everyday while she is locked in day in day out with two kids. You are feeling her resentment as she is taking her unhappiness with the situation out on you. I felt the same way being home with four kids and I wanted to hurt my husband with my words as I felt that I was doing all the work taking care of the kids while he "played and relaxed" all day at work. I felt trapped.


First suggestion would be to get her to see a Dr to make sure there is not an underlying mental issue that is affection her mood, PPD or Seasonal depression..etc

Second I would encourage and make it happen to get your wife out of the house. She has already expressed envy that you get to go to the gym, well make it happen that she gets there at least 2 times a week. When she gets to do something just for her alone, she will start to feel better about her life and you. 

Raising kids is stressful and it can feel like you are losing yourself and have become a yes woman. She needs to take time for herself to relax.

Talk to her about how she is handling being home and that you realize it's very hard and want her to get a break every week to take time for her. She may be starting to resent you for being able to leave the house everyday while she is stuck with the kids


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## dukey28 (May 10, 2017)

Its been a while since i last checked the thread and was surprised to see more replies.

Firstly i will say that the situation with her being at home with the kids and not working was entirely her choice, she actually started working again but then chose to quit work to raise the kids, fair enough but its not like she didn't have a choice.

I do quite a lot around the house, every morning i get the kids up get them dressed, give them breakfast and also make lunch for them and her so she doesn't have to do that. I also sort out the dog, the rabbit and the cat, all before work, and after too. I also clean and at weekends i help her do a big clean around the house so its not like i do nothing, i feel i do a lot, obviously this isn't enough but i don't have much time to do any more monday - friday.

If she asks me to get her something ill get it her i run her a bath EVERY single day get everything out she needs to clean and towels to dry. I also bath the kids and read them a story. When im home i do everything she asks and get her everything she asks for, i think shes just got that used to it, shes started to take it for granted. Oh she also get a massage at leased 5 nights a week so now a massage isn't anything special in fact... its BORING

Things are better and she hasn't since mentioned anything else about other men or if she has said something that made me feel a bit upset i just didn't let it show and it got a much better response. Sex is also getting better and she even said she loves having sex with me its really good and a lately the orgasms are what she described as more mature and much more enjoyable rather than being full on intense. I have also opened up more and tried new things during sex which i think has helped.

So far somethings have changed but as usual there's always something that's not right i guess we can't be perfect.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

be careful that she is not appeasing you, do not let your guard down. something is not adding up.


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## dukey28 (May 10, 2017)

Lostinthought61 said:


> be careful that she is not appeasing you, do not let your guard down. something is not adding up.


This is something i've done right from the start of our relationship, i have always got the things she has asked me to get and ran her a bath


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

dukey28 said:


> This is something i've done right from the start of our relationship, i have always got the things she has asked me to get and ran her a bath


STOP THAT....your being a tool and doormat....man up buddy


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

dukey28 said:


> Ok so for the past month or so i really don't know whats going on with our marriage. We've been married 4 years and we have 3 year old twins which is hard work.
> 
> Last night for the first time we had an adult conversation about our relationship, this conversation was sparked because we both wanted sex but the vibe just wasn't right, it just didn't happen and this has been the case for the past few times, when it has happned it was just sex or quickies and nothing intimate. For the first 3/4 months of 2017 our sex life had picked up dramatically, we were having sex often and on top of that there was connection and i felt it from her, a lately no connection at all.
> 
> ...



I think she is looking for some love and attention and is pushing your buttons (in the wrong way). 
It is very difficult to be at home all day without adult company with two young ones. She wants some loving, you talk about it alot, maybe it is in your head, but you cannot expect her to know it, SHOW her!
Surprise her, buy her flowers, bring her out, etc. Do the things you first did when you were courting her and not act so wounded and offended when she is telling you how she feels. You have dropped the ball, she has told you and your default mode is to think about pulling the plug, are you really that sensitive?
Be thankful her sex drive has gone through the roof and take full advantage, stop over thinking everything and be a man :grin2::grin2:


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

dukey28 said:


> This is something i've done right from the start of our relationship, i have always got the things she has asked me to get and ran her a bath


Maybe you need to read NMNG, women dont like doormats


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

dukey28 said:


> Its been a while since i last checked the thread and was surprised to see more replies.
> 
> Firstly i will say that the situation with her being at home with the kids and not working was entirely her choice, she actually started working again but then chose to quit work to raise the kids, fair enough but its not like she didn't have a choice.
> 
> ...


So what exactly does she do. You seem to do practically everything for the children.


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## Real talk (Apr 13, 2017)

There are few things women like less than doormats. While you're doing all of this what is she doing to appease you? Is she going above and beyond for your satisfaction?


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

jld said:


> I don't think is cheating or wants to. She likely is overwhelmed by kids, however.
> 
> Please do not take her words personally and overreact. That will just make you seem like another child she has to soothe. Nothing sexy about that.
> 
> Try to develop more inner security and learn to be able to hear her without getting sensitive and reactive to her words. Sensitive men (the kind that take everything personally) can really be draining.


:iagree:

Your wife's comment about sex with you was pretty inconsiderate, but you have 3yr old twins...I too think she is likely overwhelmed and probably frustrated. This phase will pass. 

I would take it as a sign that you need to put in some serious effort in dating your wife and restoring the romance in the marriage. How much time do you two spend alone together, meeting the top 4 emotional needs of affection, conversation, recreational companionship, and sex? If you're not in the habit of doing these things together like you were when you were dating, of course sex is going to seem disconnected. I'd get the book His Needs, Her Needs and start implementing a lot more time for undivided attention with your wife. You'll notice a big difference in your marriage pretty quickly if you do this.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Daisy12 said:


> I think she is feeling isolated and stressed with seeing you get to leave the house everyday while she is locked in day in day out with two kids. You are feeling her resentment as she is taking her unhappiness with the situation out on you. I felt the same way being home with four kids and I wanted to hurt my husband with my words as I felt that I was doing all the work taking care of the kids while he "played and relaxed" all day at work. I felt trapped.
> 
> 
> First suggestion would be to get her to see a Dr to make sure there is not an underlying mental issue that is affection her mood, PPD or Seasonal depression..etc
> ...


What you have written makes sense. It could be the answer to much of her behavior.

Saying what she has said in the bedroom is playing with fire. Very risky, very immature.

Catamount to an unhappy teen saying, "I am going to take my bat, balls and glove and play for another team." 

In her case, she threatens to take her well-oiled warm glove and get someone else's bat and balls to play with.

Talk about mind games....sheeese!


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Jessica38 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Your wife's comment about sex with you was pretty inconsiderate, but you have 3yr old twins...I too think she is likely overwhelmed and probably frustrated. This phase will pass.
> 
> I would take it as a sign *that you need to put in some serious effort in dating your wife *and restoring the romance in the marriage. How much time do you two spend alone together, meeting the top 4 emotional needs of affection, conversation, recreational companionship, and sex? If you're not in the habit of doing these things together like you were when you were dating, of course sex is going to seem disconnected. I'd get the book His Needs, Her Needs and start implementing a lot more time for undivided attention with your wife. You'll notice a big difference in your marriage pretty quickly if you do this.


 How could he possibly find time to do more? He already does everything for the kids and waits on her hand and foot. I guess it's not even possible that it could be her who is at fault and should have some respect and gratitude for her husband /servant.


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## dukey28 (May 10, 2017)

Well last night was horrendous and if this carries on i'm seriously thinking about walking away, although it will be hard i fell i will have to.


So i got in from work and already i could cut the atmosphere with a knife! Hard day with the kids, ok i get it, dinner was ready so she eats in the living room and i eat with the kids as normal.
She then goes in the bath and we have a quick kiss.
I bath the kids and get them in bed then for some reason it all flipped... She turned horrible, made comments about me which hurt but i showed nothing and just ignored it, she again made comments about men on her phone, trying to get a reaction and i was having none of it and just carried on, when that wasnt working she just said that my progress in the gym had gone backwards i was small and skinny, ugly.

I literally cleaned all down stairs, i still had the dog to walk the rabbit to sort and also food shopping to get in which i didnt end up doing because by the time i had finished it was too late.

We went up stairs she was still off with me, i gave her a massage and asked what was wrong and she said whats normally wrong with me when im like this and i was like i don't know there could be many things she said what have you not done, i said i don't know but if you don't tell me i can't sort it out, i then figured out is it because we haven't had sex, she said yes, but shes tired and can't be bothered and we just don't have any time to. I followed this up with well if you want it and aren't willing to make an effort to make time time or be bothered then you can't really complain and be like this, we have time i mean we are sat watching TV doing nothing.

She then later said it's not about not having sex and shes in a funny mood.

This morning came and she was still in this mood, being horrible again and said i need to start and pull my weight around the house as she is fed up of doing everything... I just didn't even bother replying.

Can anyone figure this out? Because i can't no matter what i do its never right, im just never good enough...

When our relationship is good its fantastic and all happy and then we hit these points and its horrendous

How much should i take because im so close to breaking point and there is zero point of talking to her about it because as soon as i mention the fact that im at breaking point she will just say well go then and get all of your things and go back to your parents...

Lost cause?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Why would she treat you well? Its not like you are going to do anything about it when she does the opposite.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

dukey28 said:


> Well last night was horrendous and if this carries on i'm seriously thinking about walking away, although it will be hard i fell i will have to.
> 
> 
> So i got in from work and already i could cut the atmosphere with a knife! Hard day with the kids, ok i get it, dinner was ready so she eats in the living room and i eat with the kids as normal.
> ...


An awful lot of what you describe here are things you'd have to do anyway if you were single, normal part of life stuff...just without having to worry about whether it was good enough or not. Maybe it's time to call her bluff?


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

jld said:


> dukey28 said:
> 
> 
> > Well this is what i'm afraid of, i mean shes being open about it and i appreciate that its just i don't understand what i can do, i am me and it sounds like im not good enough anymore.
> ...


What?

I don't know of any truly caring person that would say this to their spouse. How could you not take this badly?


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Dukey, it's standard practice in civilized society to assess consequences for bad behavior. We (society) raise our children that way. If you misbehave at work you get fired. If you misbehave on the street, you get arrested. If you mouth off at the bar, you get punched.

Your wife appears to be the only exception to this rule. She is unfettered by consequences, and as a result is acting much like a child would in the same situation.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

I have to agree that you do one hell of a lot, and she reacts by tearing little pieces off you. Me, I'd tell her to get stuffed when she acts like a petulant child. Tell her to go ahead and f**k whatever guy she wants. See if life would be better without you and the kids, permanently. She acts so overwhelmed, maybe you should stop doing for her. See if she likes having to sort out the rest of her life without you.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

dukey28 said:


> Well last night was horrendous and if this carries on i'm seriously thinking about walking away, although it will be hard i fell i will have to.
> 
> 
> So i got in from work and already i could cut the atmosphere with a knife! Hard day with the kids, ok i get it, dinner was ready so she eats in the living room and i eat with the kids as normal.
> ...


Really?

She treats you the way you describe and you *STILL REWARD HER*?

She's in a funny mood?

Yeah, funny mood from talking to another guy.

Dude, check her phone and home computer.
You my friend have chipmunks in your woodshed


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

OP the problem is you. She walks all over you treats you like crap and you do what?

Give her a massage?

Your actions say "I'm ok with what you do to me"?

The sad thing is you're teaching your kids this. A son will look at you and accept what you are as normal. A daughter will look at this and assume she can treat her future husband like her mom treats you.

You are a bigger problem than your wife. You really need to fix that. 

Better wake up


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

@dukey28 - why on gawds green earth do you continue to cater to this spoiled brat. Apparently all she does is cook dinner. If she is a SAHP worth a nickel, you should only being doing chores that you want to do. Massages should end yesterday. You putting the kids to bed and getting them up and ready to go should totally stop, at least on one end.


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## dukey28 (May 10, 2017)

As i write this i'm immensely, hurt and confused. 

I honestly think our marriage is at the end, again we fell out and a lot of truths came out of her mouth, it actually all started because she was chipping away at me for a good 20 minutes, talking about other men and comparing me to them, we have new neighbours and she said she could be the girl next door because hes really good looking, his brother is too. I wasnt reacting to this, she then came over and said lets have sex i can pretend you are him so i though ok ill call it and go through with it see how she feels, she then said in fact no i cant you're too ugly, so i said what? she said just kidding lets do it, tell me you want me, so i did, she then starts laughing and says i've just used you, why would you let me do that so i was like whatever you obviously out to get me, she then tries again and again laughs and says ive just tried to use you twice, third time things get a little bit further and BOOM she starts hammering me about my manhood, why is it small, so i explained maybe its because im not turned on at all, she then said i want a proper mans d*ck i need a bigger one (i think all this thats going on has something to do with it, im above average we actually measured a while ago but now all of a sudden im small) i said why are you doing this i don't get it, she said well im 30 soon and i need to see whats out there, every woman who is turning 30 has these thoughts, seriously every woman, please women that are 30 please explain this i call bull crap!

Eventually she came out with i think we need a break, i was like i agree i think you need time to find yourself and figure out you want, she said but what if i sleep with other people would we get back together? Like WTF! She literally wants the cake and to eat it. I said no way you've just asked for a hall pass basically not a break. I think if i suggested and open relationship she would bite my hand off.

I don't get what she thinks she is missing by sleeping around shes always thinking there's better and its always about the sex, we rarely have it now and when we do she says how good it is, so im puzzled.

The problem is and i truly think this is the case, she doesn't have a job doesn't want to be together anymore but shes staying in it for my salary because it pays the bills and if i left she would struggle big time.
She would never say it but i know it, i tried to ask her serious questions last night and just got stupid answers.

I said to her after making remarks again about sleeping with other men that i don't think you would do it, she said look at me, don't you think i wouldn't f*ck someone else if was given half the chance, because i would, in anger i just said go ahead and do it then because im past caring, if you did its got to the point where i wouldn't even be angry just disappointed and that's the truth i wouldn't care, in my head now shes said that much stuff about it that my head just thinks she has now.

She said she's past caring about what happens to us now, i either stay and work on it or i go now and take all my things, it's so obvious she wants to end it but she will never be the one to make the decision, i said why if you don't care are you wasting your life with me then, she replies that i've already wasted nearly 10 years so it doesn't matter anymore.

If i stay in this marriage she will 100% cheat eventually i know it, if she hasn't done so already and if she has i would never find out so...

Life is a big fat sh*t box for me at the moment, i just don't see any point in living these days never mind being married.

I don't have any emotional attachment to my kids, now no attachment to my wife, no drive to do anything fun or even suggest doing something, i just want to stay in all the time, the only time i feel the slightest bit normal is at work, i am myself at work, at home, sh*t on someones shoe.

Sorry to vent like this but i have no one to talk to, i don't even have any friends, in this world i am lonely.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

dukey28 said:


> Thank you for your reply, i was dreading it as i didn't want to receive an anti-woman reply.
> Inner security is definitely an issue she has said to me that me being insecure is not attractive and i understand that, what she doesn't understand is that i developed it because of what she has said, in the 8 years we have been together, another man hasn't even entered into an argument or a conversation, she even at one point said if i don't stop she will end up cheating on me which didn't help me at all it just got worse...


Being insecure is unattractive do she says stuff to MAKE you feel insecure and therefore make you unattractive to her.

It is like saying "I hate the colour blue. So let's see what happens if I paint my house blue inside and out and have blue furniture and blue carpets?"

Do you think she would just LOVE her new blue house? No. She wouldn't!

I think she needs counselling. She might be depressed and is blaming you for it.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Tell her to get the f*ck out of your house and file for divorce. Stop letting her abuse you.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

dukey28 said:


> As i write this i'm immensely, hurt and confused.
> 
> I honestly think our marriage is at the end, again we fell out and a lot of truths came out of her mouth, it actually all started because she was chipping away at me for a good 20 minutes, talking about other men and comparing me to them, we have new neighbours and she said she could be the girl next door because hes really good looking, his brother is too. I wasnt reacting to this, she then came over and said lets have sex i can pretend you are him so i though ok ill call it and go through with it see how she feels, she then said in fact no i cant you're too ugly, so i said what? she said just kidding lets do it, tell me you want me, so i did, she then starts laughing and says i've just used you, why would you let me do that so i was like whatever you obviously out to get me, she then tries again and again laughs and says ive just tried to use you twice, third time things get a little bit further and BOOM she starts hammering me about my manhood, why is it small, so i explained maybe its because im not turned on at all, she then said i want a proper mans d*ck i need a bigger one (i think all this thats going on has something to do with it, im above average we actually measured a while ago but now all of a sudden im small) i said why are you doing this i don't get it, she said well im 30 soon and i need to see whats out there, every woman who is turning 30 has these thoughts, seriously every woman, please women that are 30 please explain this i call bull crap!
> 
> ...



Listen to her and believe her.

She is already cheating.
She has told you already who she has been with.

You are refusing to believe it.

I'll tell you the same as anyone who has just found out their spouse is cheating:

1) Lawyer. Today. Know your rights. Start the Divorce. Start to get primary rights to your kids
2) Doctor - get STD/STI test
3) Counselor for you. One that has experience with infidelity.
4) Eat.
5) Sleep (at least 8 hours a night if possible)
6) drink water (avoid alcohol at this point, it won't help)
7) Get to gym and start working out
8) Start to separate funds
9) 180 like your life depended on it.
10) Just Let Them Go

The end result?

The end result is to respect yourself in the end,
let go of the people that don't value you or respect you.

That is the end result.

The quickest way to get a cheating spouse back is to let them go with a smile on your face wishing them the best in life and hoping that everything works out in their relationship with their affair partner.

Seriously, the quickest way to get them back.

Nothing else works better or quicker.

Let them go.

Agree with them and their feelings,
"you should be with the OM, I hope he makes you happy, good bye"

Wouldn't that be true love?

If you really loved your spouse,
and wanted them to have what they really want in life which is the other person they're in love with,
wouldn't letting them go be the approach if you really love them?

Why focus on the affair or the drama associated with it?
Just let them go. Give them their freedom.

You can take a good hard look at yourself in the mirror everyday and improve yourself but do it for you, not for someone else, the changes will never stick when it's done for someone else, do it for your benefit and you will probably make those changes last much longer if not indefinitely - because it's for your benefit and you realize the importance and value in that benefit because YOU are involved.

I will never tell someone to change to entice a WAW back when she's been cheating on him. I don't care how bad a marriage, there is never an excuse for cheating. That is a personal decision that someone makes to cheat on their spouse. If a marriage is really bad, leave, get a divorce, speak up to your spouse and tell them flat out "this marriage sucks and if things don't change I'm going to leave you and find someone better" and if things don't improve, leave that person.

But cheating, no excuses.

Think about cheating.
A wayward spouse who cheats on their spouse goes behind their back, secretly, telling lies, feeling guilty, getting angry at their spouse for getting in the way of their fantasies but never owning up to their actions, never admitting what they're doing. If a person who cheats on their spouse felt justified in their actions, why hide and go behind their spouses backs when they start cheating, why lie, why make up excuses about late nights at work and going to a friends place and sleeping over because they drank too much and any other such nonsense?

Deep down, the cheating spouse knows there is something inherently wrong with their actions otherwise they wouldn't lie about their actions and hide what they're doing.

Fighting the affair? For what reason?
To compete with the OM or OW for your spouse?
What message does that communicate to your wayward spouse?
They have lots of value and you have none because now you have to compete with another person for their love? Competing with your wayward spouse's affair partner never works, it just prolongs an ugly drama filled process.

And for your last point,
The easiest way to show you will not tolerate cheating in your relationship is to let that person go. That is the easiest and most effective way to show this.

"Look wife/husband, I won't be in an open relationship with you, I won't give you X number of days, weeks, months to make your mind, if you really feel like you need to sit on the fence on this decision and can't decide between your affair partner and me well I will make the decision for you, you can be with them because I'm no longer an option. I love you and wish you a good life with them and hope it works out for you because it didn't work out for us. Now the best thing we can do for each other is to make this process as graceful and peaceful as possible for us and our children, I'll contact a lawyer/mediator and get started on the process of our legal separation/divorce."

You give them what they want.
You don't fight them on this issue.
You agree with their feelings,
they want to be with the other person, fine they should be with the other person, let them be with the other person.

You will never convince a person to change their feelings with your arguments and logic. You can not find one member on this website in a situation where they are dealing with infidelity where they got their spouse to change their mind about how they feel about their affair partner.

You can't say "don't love them, love me instead",
you can't say "look at me, I'm better in every way compared to your affair partner, pick me instead of them",
you can't say "you took marriage vows, you promised to love me"

I agree, you don't have to make it easy for your wayward spouse to have an affair, but when you let them go, "lovingly detach", you don't have to worry about making it easy for them. It's no longer your concern, they can have you or them but not both and not at the same time and since they've chosen to have an affair, they've made their choice, there is no profit in fighting that decision. Let them go and move on with your life, that is the quickest, easiest way to get them back.

You definitely don't support them financially and enable them, that would be weak, wussy, clingy, insecure behavior - something in you telling you that you need to support them financially while they're having an affair, hoping they'll realize how nice you are and come back to you.

Just let them go, have them move out or you move out and live a good life without them.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Dukey what the hell is it going to take for you to stop this madness and just file, to you actually need to see her messing with another guy...I honestly question whether deep inside you want to be cuckold....for god sake man, stop and listen to what the posters are tell you and just kick her to the curb and file......she will never stop messing with your mind, let her go, your a meal ticket and nothing else...move on...please move on. Time to put on your big boy pants


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

@dukey28

Oh good lord, how can you live with such blatant disrespect? You are LITERALLY being bullied and laughed at by your wife. You are THAT weak and pathetic in her eyes. Hell, you come across as that weak and pathetic to everyone here too, and we don't even know you.

I don't know what you are afraid of when it comes to standing up for yourself. What's the worst that will happen? Your wife will treat you bad, tell you that you simply aren't man enough for her, tell you you have a small ****, taunt you and yank you around so that she can laugh at how easily she can control you with the mere idea of sex? Tell you that she is done with you and will find a real man with a real mans ****? 


Oh wait, that is EXACTLY what she does to you right now. The only thing you have not tried is respecting yourself and standing up for yourself. Get used to it. Or get angry. But for crying out loud, DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT!


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Rubix Cubed said:


> How could he possibly find time to do more? He already does everything for the kids and waits on her hand and foot. I guess it's not even possible that it could be her who is at fault and should have some respect and gratitude for her husband /servant.


I think this is typical of a SAHM. They want it all NOW while they do nothing to make it happen. They see others on nice vacations with nice houses and new cars and they want that, trouble is they have supposedly given all of that up to be with their kids. I personally think that's really useless. Marriage is made for two incomes. Anything less than that will put too much strain on the marriage financially. 

OP, I think that she will keep on wanting things that she really can't even grasp until she goes back to work and starts having adults activities to do that will finally benefit the family. I would stop her run as a SAHM and demand she goes back to work or divorce her. Unless you do that all she will do is complain and want more more more.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Pick her up by her ear, put foot to her rear end, kick her out the door. Tell her that you are getting a hot woman to replace her ugly ass. Ask her if her mother had to put the fire out on her face with a hatchet. Lock the door in her face. NEVER TALK TO THAT STRUMPET AGAIN.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You are one whipped puppy taking that crap. Sounds like you just keep going back for more.

She's intentionally belittling you. Yet you do nothing but take it.

Better wake up


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Marc878 said:


> What?
> 
> I don't know of any truly caring person that would say this to their spouse. How could you not take this badly?


Save yourself the time, do not engage this potential derail. Trust me this is a thread killer.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

File, kick the ***** out.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

I'm not sure her behavior is because of the kids, and I don't think it really has anything to do with you. It may be coming from what is filling some of her time during the day while you are at work. Take a look at that - and you may find your answer. (media, fiction books, chat lines, who knows)

I strongly urge you to do some reading on setting boundaries on how you allow her to treat you. You have a troubled marriage and Probably need to seek some professional help to sort it out! 

What ever she wants (I'm not sure she even knows what that is) but whatever it is - she doesn't feel (her perception is) she isn't getting it from you and is considering the idea that she would get it from someone else. (think excitement, fun, romance, etc.) Yet she isn't ready to let you go either (at the moment) You give her stability and security - which she needs - but unfortunately for you - she also seems to consider it to be boring and a turn off. 

Find a good counselor and if she won't go with you - go alone!!


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Yes, I'm afraid I believe, from what you describe, you've lost your wife.

There is a natural point in any relationship where the initial lust and attraction fades. That kind of love is called limerence.

When it fades, if the relationship is stable and the people in it are securely attached, a deeper love takes its place. More contentment than lust.

Having children can accelerate the loss of limerence. They are huge drains on parental attention and energy, and twins just doubles that.

However, for some people, the loss of the natural lust isn't replaced by deeper love. Those people have bought into the Disney fairytale that 'true love' is supposed to stay limerence, and if that has faded away, then obviously their marriage isn't true love anymore. "I love you but I'm not in love with you." They want to regain the 'in love' lust and limerence feelings, and they can't do it with their spouse. They get restless. They fantasize in unhealthy ways. They self-destruct their relationship. They cheat.

Your wife has reached that point. She's being completely disrespectful to you, in the hopes that you'll end the marriage and she can find someone new. Or she already has. Either way, she doesn't want to end the marriage herself because then she'll be considered the bad guy in the breakup.

Start standing up for yourself. Why would you tolerate being treated like this? Why would you reward her hateful behaviour by working twice as hard? Just tell her, calmly, that you will not be treated like this, and then don't do anything she asks. When she tries to insult you, or talk about other men, ask her when she's moving out, and how you'll exchange the children.

The marriage is already over. She's a terrible partner! No one deserves to be married to someone who treats them like she's treating you. Do some research on divorce law in your area and get prepared. Don't leave the house or abandon your children, but start treating her like a roommate/nanny. Absolutely nothing intimate. Look up the 180.

So, you've lost your wife. The woman you thought your wife was is gone. Now, you have the woman she really is. Someone who is cruel and insulting and acting entitled to get whatever she wants.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Alpha chimp made his move and she at least mentally accepted the day from hell you had.


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