# I think he's done but won't admit it



## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

This is going to be a doozy of a first post, so uh, hi, and sorry for crashing in like an elephant here. I just have nowhere else to turn to.

I've been in an LDR for ~3 years with my husband, I'll call him PJ (married last June). He's military so that kept us apart, including almost two years of our relationship spent with him overseas.

The backstory:
His parents hate me. I'm not even exaggerating. They have kicked my daughter and I out of their home - waiting until they verbally beat him down so much that he took off driving - then took me and my daughter to a hotel. He dumped me the next day. That all happened right at the end of Christmas 2012. We reconciled a few weeks later but it's never been the same.

We think I have Borderline Personality Disorder (the one therapist qualified to diagnose that where I live has a months-long waiting list to get in and an already full schedule so we are going by the diagnostic criteria and opinions of people close to me who have read about BPD and say it sounds very much like me, and I feel like I've finally found something that "fits"). So I'm not easy to be in a relationship with. I start a lot of fights. I live in terror of abandonment - and even more so since the events of that Christmas. To him, that shouldn't have been a big deal at all. To me - it was a PTSD-level event.

His mother has said to me recently that I'm using BDP as an excuse to treat people bad, and that I'm a liar about everything. Basically I'm an awful person and their son is an innocent victim and so are they - kicking me and a 10-year-old out of their house after proclaiming I was only after his money was totally not anything bad on their part.

PJ has lied to me a lot. Big things and small things. Like last year he promised we would get engaged, said he had something planned for when I visited him overseas, and that was a lie. He had no plans to propose. He just wanted me to go see him. I felt used and betrayed. We ended up "getting engaged" (meaning I picked out my own ring after he said we'd get married). But there was no proposal, and I'd always been very clear that it was very important to me. I felt like my desires didn't matter to him. It was one damn thing, and he not only wouldn't do it, but lied about it to get me to go see him. That's a pretty huge level of "not okay," right?

He's still on very good terms with his parents. He doesn't say anything to them when they blame me for everything, or say harsh things to me. Almost all of our fights are about them, and his relationship with them. I don't feel like we will ever have a good marriage with them in the picture, and then I feel like a horrible person because they're his parents and I'm suppose to be understanding of that. But I feel a huge sense of fear and imminent rejection at even the mention of them, given that's what actually happened once before.

I'm suppose to be moving to be with him now that he's back in the states, but I'm stuck in a custody battle to be able to take my only child. He was suppose to come see us for Christmas and a custody hearing - well the custody hearing was postponed. He said he wasn't coming and said it was because we didn't have the money (we do). I insisted that he just didn't want to come. He finally admitted today that is the case. He doesn't want to come see us. He said I will just make him miserable.

If he isn't wanting to spend Christmas with me, why should I plan any sort of future with him? If he's already not wanting to see me (and spend Christmas with his parents which is so, so painful for me) then January, February, the rest of next year is going to be different........ how?

I know I am very hard to be with. And I am afraid that I will never get over the pain of rejection and a year-long sabotage attempt by his mother to break us up again. All of 2013 was his mother telling him how horrible I am. 2014 hasn't been much different. They claim to want to put the past behind us, but they tell me how horrible I am if I even show any hint of not worshiping PJ the way they do. They called me a liar when I told them how he's lied to me - thinking if they talked to him he would listen because they seem to be the only people he will take seriously - And he's 100% on their side. I was stupid to ask for their help, but doesn't he have a duty as a husband to stand up for me - even to his parents?

Is there any hope for a situation like this?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Sounds like there's lots of issues on both sides. At this point, I'd say work on your own issues, and let him deal with his own mess. If you can both get to healthier places and still want a relationship, it's good.if not, you'll have addressed some of your issues.

C


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

I just don't know how I'm going to get over him choosing to not come for Christmas. I haven't had my daughter for the last two Christmas' (custody agreement) and now this Christmas, neither her or him. Another holiday alone, only this time, he's choosing it vs being stuck overseas.


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

Choosing to be with his parents instead of his wife and step-daughter no less. And that feels very... I feel threatened by that, and like I'm a lost cause to him already.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

sounds to me like you have a case of "weak ass husband".

i dont understand a man who cannot stand up to their parents to defend his wife. 

if i were you, i would tell him to make a decision to either support you or support his parents ego. you can do better than that.


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

He insists he's not staying there just to spend it with his parents.

I have trouble separating him from his parents. He says that's insulting. yet at the same time I'm not suppose to be insulted by him not even giving me a chance to not f*** up Christmas, and ignoring that choosing not to come isn't exactly throwing any hope on our relationship from his end.


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

And per him, "I've given you years of chances." Cause I guess me marrying him after everything and spending 3 years of my life separate from the person I love meant nothing on my end. I didn't give him any chances. He did nothing wrong, after all. /vent


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Were you living with the inlaws at some point?


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

he told you that he would be miserable if he spent christmas with you. im sorry, but i dont care how jacked up you are in the head, NOBODY can make me miserable. for crying out loud, i have been living with my in-laws for the last six weeks while trying to close on a house. the same in-laws that tried to convince my wife to leave me for four years. we are doing fine because im not afraid of them. they know that if they give us too much crap i will pack my family up and move into an apartment. i help out with all of the chores and pay for their food as a way of contributing to their house. why? im not afraid of them, and im not afraid of work. we get along quite well. 

your husband is being a coward. he says YOU are going to make him miserable? yikes... 

ok, now that i have finished that rant, what would you like do? do you want to stay married to him or cut ties and look for someone else? you have to assume that this behavior is going to continue unless he has a good enough reason to change it.


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

I think if he continues with counseling, and if we can get counseling together finally, things could be fine. They use to be fine. They were great. But him leaving for overseas and the events of that christmas changed things. I haven't been able to get over it and I won't be able to without us getting counseling together. I can't do that unless I move, which means taking me and (hopefully) my kid and all my animals (I breed exotics) 1700 miles from here (which is where I've lived all my life, where all my family is). It's pretty scary to move when everything is already on the rocks. I really don't know what to do.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

As'laDain said:


> sounds to me like you have a case of "weak ass husband".
> 
> i dont understand a man who cannot stand up to their parents to defend his wife.
> 
> if i were you, i would tell him to make a decision to either support you or support his parents ego. you can do better than that.


That's not fair at all. VMS specifically said that she may be Borderline Personality Disorder. Kudos to her for giving us that information because it's important to understand that her husband is in a tough position just like she is. 

You said "if I were you then I would ....". The problem with that notion is that you are not a person with BPD and like me have likely never been married to a person with BPD.

I don't actually know what advice to give yet. I do believe a man who's serving his country and respecting his parents is probably not a 'weak ass husband' given the fact that his wife knows she also has some things to work.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

what branch of the military is he in?


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Thundarr said:


> That's not fair at all. VMS specifically said that she may be Borderline Personality Disorder. Kudos to her for giving us that information because it's important to understand that her husband is in a tough position just like she is.
> 
> You said "if I were you then I would ....". The problem with that notion is that you are not a person with BPD and like me have likely never been married to a person with BPD.
> 
> I don't actually know what advice to give yet but I do believe calling a man who's serving my country and respecting his parents is probably not a 'weak ass husband'. Especially given the fact that OP knows she also has some things to work on as well.


spare me the "serving my country" crap. he is doing an honorable thing by serving his country. he is NOT doing his wife any good. 

and she is the one trying to diagnose herself with BPD.


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Were you living with the inlaws at some point?


No, we were just visitting them for Christmas in Washington, and he was flying out of that airport to start his time overseas. I asked after his mother started a fight with me if we could go to a hotel, he refused. He had all the money, so I was stuck. Then things got worse simply because we asked his mom to talk about her issue with me, she said I was a guest in her house and not to speak to her, then that's when her and his dad cornered him in the kitchen, he left, and they kicked me and my daughter out. He met us at the hotel, after I finally got ahold of him (he refused to answer my calls or texts) and then dumped me by phone on my layover. 

Yeah, I know. It was cowardly. We'd been fighting a lot because I wasn't handling his leaving well at all and he would get mad at me if I was sad. We didn't know at the time that I have BPD so we didn't know why his leaving was so traumatic for me.

I'd have to hide and cry but that wasn't okay cause I was being antisocial. Not one damn person asked me how I was the entire time I was there. They didn't care at all about me or my daughter, at least not that I could tell. The walls were thin, they heard PJ and I fighting, so of course I was the Big Bad B**** hurting their son. He never stood up for me then, and he hasn't really now, except to not leave me. Yet.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

vms, is he paying for your rent? if not, is he registered as a geographical bachelor?


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

As'laDain said:


> vms, is he paying for your rent? if not, is he registered as a geographical bachelor?


He pays my rent, but his housing goes to our house where he is at now. So until I move we're technically paying rent twice. My daughter and I are on DEERS as his dependents (but not on Tricare yet because he mistakenly thought registering us for DEERS was the same thing, after this month ends I have no healthcare as my self-paid plan is being discontinued).

He's Army, I don't know what difference that makes.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

in what ways does he support you? 

you say he had all the money... is that still the case? do you have access to the money he makes from the military?


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## that.girl (Aug 27, 2014)

OP, i strongly recommend getting yourself into counseling before you make any decisions about your marriage or your inlaws. Your head is not in a good place right now. 

I'm not trying to say who your issues are caused by. But i see you slinging a lot of blame and anger around, and it's damaging you, your husband, and your marriage. 

You admit you are probably BPD. Do something about that, before you start trying to fix anyone else. If the counselor you want is busy, find another. A special qualification shouldn't be needed to make a diagnosis.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

so the thing keeping you separated is the custody issue?


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

vms said:


> No, we were just visitting them for Christmas in Washington, and he was flying out of that airport to start his time overseas. I asked after his mother started a fight with me if we could go to a hotel, he refused. He had all the money, so I was stuck. Then things got worse simply because we asked his mom to talk about her issue with me, she said I was a guest in her house and not to speak to her, then that's when her and his dad cornered him in the kitchen, he left, and they kicked me and my daughter out. He met us at the hotel, after I finally got ahold of him (he refused to answer my calls or texts) and then dumped me by phone on my layover.
> 
> Yeah, I know. It was cowardly. We'd been fighting a lot because I wasn't handling his leaving well at all and he would get mad at me if I was sad. We didn't know at the time that I have BPD so we didn't know why his leaving was so traumatic for me.
> 
> I'd have to hide and cry but that wasn't okay cause I was being antisocial. Not one damn person asked me how I was the entire time I was there. They didn't care at all about me or my daughter, at least not that I could tell. The walls were thin, they heard PJ and I fighting, so of course I was the Big Bad B**** hurting their son. He never stood up for me then, and he hasn't really now, except to not leave me. Yet.


That whole thing sounds traumatic, even someone without abandonment issues would have trouble with a situation like that. 
Having your daughter there to see all of it must have been hard for her too. 
I can understand how it would had been hard too for his parents to hear you guys fight a lot during your Christmas visit. 
When you do fight with him, do you yell, call him names? Does he?


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

He supports us financially. I was working up until August, I quit because everything was a go for moving. Then the ex changed his mind, and now it's a custody battle for my daughter to move with me. (and I was/am totally willing to let her stay here and finish the school year while I worked on myself/marriage)

I have access to checking, but not savings. 

I'm incredibly anxious to get into therapy for myself, but like I said, it just doesn't exist here for people like me. The one place that offered it closed. The two remaining therapists aren't qualified. They don't do DBT or CBT. And I'm about to have no insurance unless he adds me to Tricare, and there's no guarantee that even if I did see one of those two therapists, that they'd take Tricare.

To add to all this stress, PJ is one of the service members affected by the budget cuts. He's out of the Army come April.


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy, I'm a yeller. Very much. I also hurt myself, although I haven't had an "episode" in almost a month (go me I guess). I mean it when I say I'm hard to be with. I fully recognize how hard it is. 

There are things I will not do though, and that is call him names or say things like "f*** you" or "go f*** yourself" but yes he does say those things to me.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

*vms* _ My daughter and I are on DEERS as his dependents (but not on Tricare yet because he mistakenly thought registering us for DEERS was the same thing, after this month ends I have no healthcare as my self-paid plan is being discontinued)._

Hi sweetie, this is As'ladain's wife. Heard you needed to register for Tricare. There are three different companies that are tasked with covering military dependent care. All you have to do is call 1.800.TRICARE and they will get you all sorted out. And it will also be active immediately (like end of the call immediately). You already got the hard part out of the way by being registered in DEERS. Oh, and before I forget, make sure you have everyone's SSN's handy 'cause they will want them.

A couple of bits of information for ya: 
1) Your dependent ID card becomes your insurance card, so make sure you take it with you all appointments.
2) Where you get your care comes down to how many miles you are from base, if you are currently in Housing, and how big/small your base is. The current regs state that you must be more than 30 miles from the base in order to receive civilian care. Smaller bases will usually shuffle dependents off base to civilian providers because they just don't have the manpower to accommodate everyone.
3)If you or your children (if you have them) have a prior existing condition, you'll want to see about enrolling in EFMP (Exceptional Family Member Program). It's the military's way of ensuring that family members that need extra help (be it educational, emotional, or physical help) have it at their local base level. For example, if you have say Fibromyalgia (like me) then that narrows down the bases my husband can be stationed at because the military is going to ensure I have access to the medical facilities to treat my condition.

If you have any questions about anything military, go ahead and and PM Akinaura here, that's my screen name. I'm an ex-FRG Leader, and kinda know a lot...(lots of research lol)


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

As'laDain said:


> spare me the "serving my country" crap. he is doing an honorable thing by serving his country. he is NOT doing his wife any good.
> 
> and she is the one trying to diagnose herself with BPD.


Maybe VMS can give us more details about what conflicts she's had with her husband's parents like what her in-laws dislike about her. I would guess OP is looking into BPD because she knows that she sometimes treats people poorly or disrespectfully. 

Feel free to paint her husband as a villain and calling him 'weak ass' even though we have limited information about what happened between her and his parents.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

my wife hijacked my computer when i asked what the number was to register for tricare... lol


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

vms said:


> SlowlyGoingCrazy, I'm a yeller. Very much. I also hurt myself, although I haven't had an "episode" in almost a month (go me I guess). I mean it when I say I'm hard to be with. I fully recognize how hard it is.
> 
> There are things I will not do though, and that is call him names or say things like "f*** you" or "go f*** yourself" but yes he does say those things to me.


how long have you been married? i think i missed that part somewhere...


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Thundarr said:


> Maybe VMS can give us more details about what conflicts she's had with her husband's parents like what her in-laws dislike about her. I would guess OP is looking into BPD because she knows that she sometimes treats people poorly or disrespectfully.
> 
> Feel free to paint her husband as a villain and calling him 'weak ass' even though we have limited information about what happened between her and his parents (zero specifics). If VMS is here looking for everyone to tell her how right she is and not looking for people wanting to help her then I'll find another thread and you can tell her how worthless her husband is.


ok, i see your point. 

i always get ticked off when i see a soldier not taking care of their family. my bad.


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

Lol it's okay, thank you both. We were told though that only PJ could register us. I'll look into this tomorrow then.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

vms said:


> Lol it's okay, thank you both. We were told though that only PJ could register us. I'll look into this tomorrow then.


just deers as far as i know. tricare can be enrolled by the dependent, they need current orders(in order to verify which region to enroll in) and have been enrolled in deers. and you need the service members SSN.


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

In-laws were... well always kind of standoffish. PJ and I come from very different families. My family is bubbly and will want to know everything about you within an hour of meeting you. They accept everyone. His family is much more... well they seem disinterested. They never really talked to me when we'd visit. I would seek out his mom to talk to her, but the reception was always a little chilly. Same with his brother and wife. His dad worked a lot so he was never really around when we were there. A few dinners with him and that was it. In my family, when we are hosting people, we make plans WITH them. We take them to do things. They did nothing like that. So it was weird to me, it didn't feel like we were wanted there. And in fact I remember his mom saying she didn't want us to stay for 2+ weeks because her and his dad are use to being alone in the house. PJ insisted we stay for almost 3 weeks, despite both his mom AND me protesting. So I'm sure she was feeling put out and I don't blame her at all for that.

They would get upset over things I found normal. Like my daughter was 10 both times she was there, and his parents have a kitchen full of health food. Not the "hey this tastes pretty good actually" kind but the no-sugar, no-flavor kind. They were upset because my daughter didn't like the cooking, and they didn't like that we went to the store and bought drinks and snacks that a kid would actually eat (the choice of beverages for us were unflavored almond milk, skim milk, and "soda" that was totally unsweetened, so very bitter - but buying juice and full fat milk was somehow disrespectful?)

Anyway. Everything was, not exactly all happy happy but we weren't arguing. Then I think it was two days after Christmas, PJ and I were talking about his car needing maintenance. He was leaving it there with his parents (we'd drove up there, with tickets already bought for daughter and I to fly home). We thought his stint in Korea was only a year at that point (that was the orders at the time) so I was planning to go ahead and move us up to the same area as his parents. I mentioned that I can take care of car maintenance when I get there, and she starts telling me it's a bad idea for me to move there, I'm only with him for his money, and we shouldn't be together.

She had NEVER said ANY of this to him or I before. We were standing there stunned. I defended myself and our relationship, he said nothing. I was mad at him for not saying anything. Who wouldn't be? But I'm sure he was just shocked into silence. This came out of nowhere. 

Turns out she had already turned his brother, SIL, and dad against me prior to that point, but none of them said one word to me about it. I tried to reach out to his SIL at the hotel that night, after we were taken there, and that's when I learned she'd already been turned against me. She said how dare I talk to her. 

I had no chance to ever defend myself to any of them. His brother and SIL joined in the "dump her" brigade for 2013. PJ didn't talk to his brother for months after he compared me to an ex he had and refused to use my name when talking about me, using terms like "that girl" instead (she was pretty bad from what I hear and it upset PJ).

Look, I know I am not innocent in all this and this reads like a big slam fest against them. I just want to try and get as much detail because details make a difference. I think this shows why I feel like I was betrayed by all of his family. Maybe?


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

vms said:


> SlowlyGoingCrazy, I'm a yeller. Very much. I also hurt myself, although I haven't had an "episode" in almost a month *(go me I guess)*. I mean it when I say I'm hard to be with. I fully recognize how hard it is.
> 
> There are things I will not do though, and that is call him names or say things like "f*** you" or "go f*** yourself" but yes he does say those things to me.


You're willing to look at yourself and search for ways to be a better version of yourself and that more than most of us can say. It's good because your daughter needs the best you.

As for your husband cursing you, that shows low character on his part.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

As'laDain said:


> ok, i see your point.
> 
> i always get ticked off when i see a soldier not taking care of their family. my bad.


Thanks As'laDain. I do too and I know it happens.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

when did you get married? if you said when, i missed it. 

in other words, how long has he let you go without being enrolled in tricare?


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

As'laDain said:


> when did you get married? if you said when, i missed it.
> 
> in other words, how long has he let you go without being enrolled in tricare?


June of this year. But DEERS was the issue with that. I live nowhere near a base, and he went back overseas right after our honeymoon. We had to be together in person to enroll, so that didn't happen until I went and visited him in October right after he got back, in Washington. We even tried to schedule me to go to the closest base that does enrollments with his official copy of... I forget the name of the paper... but when I called that base they told me I was trying to commit fraud. We decided to just get it done when I went up to house hunt with him. So I've only been his official spouse since late October. The only available time slot to get us enrolled on DEERS was the morning I was flying back, so we barely had enough time for that.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

well that makes a lot more sense. thank you. 

so right now he is ACAPing... he should have time to get things fixed before he gets out. it is his obligation to do so, and you can get ahold of his chain of command if he does not. personally, i still think its pretty weak to waffle on his choice of spouse based on his families feelings, but maybe that can be chalked up to just being young...

so, what can you do to improve your relationship with your spouse? can you think of anything?

hopefully he will get out of this funk and stop hiding from you. cuz thats not helping anything.


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

I don't know. I've given him a lot of slack since this is his first serious relationship (he moved every 3-6 months in the Army due to all his training he's had to attend, plus 2 stints in Iraq so when did he ever have time to have a relationship). He's 31, I'm 32. I was married for almost 10 years and I met him at the very end of it. My ex was abusive, I have a lot of baggage that goes with that.

He's had no experience being in a relationship. I've had no experience being in a GOOD relationship. So a great pair we are huh? lol 

I've really tried to "be the bigger person" on a lot of things, but there's been a lot he's done that's not okay. I've never lied to him, never cheated on him, never spent money and not told him or hid money or anything like that. Basically all the awful crap my ex did to me, I vowed I'd never do to someone. But I still have my BPD to deal with (or whatever it is, but it's very serious, I can tell you that). That causes most of our issues because I have trouble controlling my emotions. I can go days being happy and upbeat but then I'm raging for 20 minutes at the drop of a hat. 20 minutes later I'm fine. That cycle repeats itself week after week. It wears on him. But I can't just say "Ok I'm going to stop that." 

No one would ever choose to be like this. I don't want it to be the end of my marriage but I'm afraid it will, and it's not like I can go get a shot and I'm cured. He has to be patient with me. He is, most of the time, but now he's not coming for Christmas and I feel like it's for sure the beginning of the end. 

If I am upset with him over something, like a legitimate something, say he lied to me about something, he goes off on me about everything he's done and how I've done nothing (yes he uses the word nothing, I know better than to use words like always and nothing when arguing). He constantly tells me that I'm never happy with him and that he can't do anything right. He gets so mad at me if I confront him when he hurts my feelings or does anything legitimately wrong (by that I mean something that you just flat out don't do to other people, like lying or breaking promises cause you "didn't feel like doing it").

All I can think to do is be patient with him but that is really starting to feel more like I'm suppose to let him do whatever he wants, no matter if it hurts me or not. And not complain about anything he does. I'm just tired of being met with "you're all our problems, let me list the ways again, in case you didn't get them last week when I listed them."

This will be his grandma's last Christmas. So I really have no leg to stand on with him coming here to be with us. I look like a huge b**** if I ask him to be here and I'm really not that uncaring. She is his family after all and I rather liked her.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

You do not come across as someone with a personality disorder. Sounds like a typical response to the stresses of unresolved relationship issues to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

As'laDain said:


> You do not come across as someone with a personality disorder. Sounds like a typical response to the stresses of unresolved relationship issues to me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





> *1) Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment.
> *
> Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior*** covered in Criterion 5.
> 
> ...


I fit, and have for most of my life, the bolded diagnostic criteria, and to a small extent, #9 as well. 

It's true that I've had a crap run of things in life. I have seen things no kid should see, been abused, bullied, harassed. My symptoms got worse in my 30's as is often the case with BPD. I could also just have severe PTSD. Until I can see someone who can diagnose me, I can't know for sure. What I, and those I'm close to, do know is that there's definitely something very serious effecting me. Medications don't work, and previous therapy hasn't worked, likely because none of it was ever focused on changing behaviors and thought processes. 

I can honestly say that if it wasn't for my daughter, I would likely have attempted suicide or left everything and ended up homeless. I fight both of those feelings almost daily. She is what keeps me going. 

Hearing PJ and his family talk to me the way they do perpetuates my feelings of worthlessness, and I feel like they'd be better off, even joyous, if I were dead or otherwise not here. That's not a normal way to feel. I've punched myself hard enough that the knots in the muscle are still there 8 weeks later. 

I've learned to turn my "episodes" off - or not start at all - if my daughter or another person other than PJ is there. I just can't seem to do it as well if I have no one around me and I can't seem to control myself with him around. He is triggering to me and I don't yet know how to stop that. It isn't fair to him.


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## Feeling-Lonely (Nov 13, 2013)

OP what rank is your husband?


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

vms, you could have a PD, but to be honest, everything you are describing could just as easily be described by depression and PTSD. 

you just seem far too introspective to me. 

now, that said, the things that make you feel worse are the things that you need to address. unfortunately, your husband made a huge blunder early on by dropping you and your daughter off at a hotel and dumping you over the phone. without giving you much warning. 

uh, yeah, that would be pretty traumatic for anyone. 
and hearing more about your husbands military experience doesnt help my opinion of him... now i cant even chalk it up to being young... 

i dont think there is anything wrong with you as a person. and maybe not with your husband either, but he really does need to get his priorities straight. you guys need to be together as much as possible. if you arent working to get closer, your actively getting farther apart. every time i get back from deployment or TDY or whatever the army has me doing, my wife and i go through the same cycle of resolving issues that we couldnt resolve while i was away. most of the symptoms you describe, for both of us. and there is a legitimate reason for it. 

maybe your husband needs to learn what a marriage looks like? see if you can get ahold of his units chaplain. he should be able to get you a number. if not, your husbands unit has a family readiness group leader that should know. they likely even have a face book page...
tell his chaplain whats going on and see if he has any marriage seminars or strong bonds retreats. your husband needs to start acting like he is married. and you two need to reconnect. 

or he needs to man up and say he is done if he really is.


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

Feeling-Lonely, he's a captain. He just came back from running his own unit. A tank company. 

He's seeing a counselor where he's at. He has always objected to using Army resources, I think he's afraid it will look bad for his career. He talked to the chaplain at his last base when he first got there, but that was all he would do in that regard. Since he's joining the guard, I don't expect he will be opening to using military resources even after leaving the Army.

I can't figure out how someone who is a captain can act like this in his personal life, but be in charge of 80+ men without any issues. I think a big part of it is the way his parents interact. I've seen his mom get really upset (via email) with his father, who immediately reacted with an email telling us to ignore his mother, she was just upset (she had legitimate complaints). So he hasn't had a good view of the kind of marriage that I see working long-term and being FULFILLING. His dad was always busy with work and wasn't really "there" at home, especially not emotionally.


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

There's also no privacy in his family. His parents aren't allowed to have private conversations with him, a lot of their emails are CC to each other. That's one of what his mom was upset over - PJ and his dad were talking and she wasn't in on it. If someone is upset, everyone has to hear about it. Every email is forwarded to whoever it wasn't addressed to because there's just no privacy. She did have a legit complaint about something his dad did - she said he was actually behind her verbal attack on me at the house, it was his idea to kick us out, but he "made" her do it all. 

Homie don't play dat here. I hardly ever talk to my family about our issues because they are OUR issues. I don't want to bad-mouth him to them and lower their respect for him. I don't want to do to him what was done to me, kwim? I've talked to them just a few times when I really had to talk to someone. But it's a conversation, and then it's done. We don't keep talking about it month after month.


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

And I probably seem introspective because I have done a LOT of reading about BPD and PTSD and buddhist practices (meditation and all that). I try to better myself. But knowing the why behind things hasn't changed my behavior. If you could see me when I'm upset, you'd understand. I get... pretty crazy. It's not "sane" to punch your head or your chest, bang your against the walls, and there's even been times when I've accused him of wanting to have sex with his mother because he's just that close to her and I get it in my head that if he just could f*** her, he'd have everything he ever needed. I see him as Little Baby PJ, who would "suckle mommy's titty if she would let him." That's not normal. I HATE when I get like that, and it's really hard for me to snap out of it. 

Frankly if i were him, I wouldn't really want to be around me either. I totally understand that. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. But he DID marry me, so he's in it for better or for worse. If he can't handle it, then he's doing us both a favor by leaving. It would be the right thing to do. You shouldn't stay with someone if you can't or won't help them, or if you can't or won't handle it without lashing back. Hurting me because I hurt him because I'm not totally sane isn't the answer.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

ugh....

i always get a knot in my stomach when i hear of an officer being reluctant to be seen working on typical marriage issues. i have known a few that were like that, and they werent exactly pleasant to work with. 

from what i can tell, a lot of officers feel they are expected to have a perfect home life. but they are human too, and the reality is, they cannot deny that fact. though some try. 

from what you describe, his family likes to act like problems dont exist. and he learned those bad habits too...


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

vms said:


> And I probably seem introspective because I have done a LOT of reading about BPD and PTSD and buddhist practices (meditation and all that). I try to better myself. But knowing the why behind things hasn't changed my behavior. If you could see me when I'm upset, you'd understand. I get... pretty crazy. It's not "sane" to punch your head or your chest, bang your against the walls, and there's even been times when I've accused him of wanting to have sex with his mother because he's just that close to her and I get it in my head that if he just could f*** her, he'd have everything he ever needed. I see him as Little Baby PJ, who would "suckle mommy's titty if she would let him." That's not normal. I HATE when I get like that, and it's really hard for me to snap out of it.
> 
> Frankly if i were him, I wouldn't really want to be around me either. I totally understand that. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. But he DID marry me, so he's in it for better or for worse. If he can't handle it, then he's doing us both a favor by leaving. It would be the right thing to do. You shouldn't stay with someone if you can't or won't help them, or if you can't or won't handle it without lashing back. Hurting me because I hurt him because I'm not totally sane isn't the answer.


so what triggers you?


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

My triggers - that I'm aware of - are:
- Almost any mention of his family, but especially his mother. 

- Any sign that he might be leaving me. This includes any time spent with his parents, refusal to answer if I call/no call back after seeing I called (I very rarely call him without asking if he's busy first), or less than usual # of texts to me. I don't mind him spending time with his grandma because there's no bad history between her and I. But I'm terrified that time spent with his parents will mean a repeat of two years ago. They were right there rooting for him to dump me, and he did, and so he got all their praise for that, and he is VERY praise motivated. Words of affirmation and physical touch are his Love Languages, and he's been known to pay anyone attention that pays HIM attention because he needs that praise/attention (and he's admitted that, and he was really bad about that when we met, but he's not near as focused on getting attention now, and he isn't on adult forums anymore; neither of us are, it wasn't a secret or anything in fact our profiles were linked showing we were a couple). 

- Any sign that I'm "less" to him. For example, he wanted the CD of our wedding photos so he could show them to his grandma. I gave it to him in October. He still hasn't shown them to her. But he showed her all his ones from when he was in command. That feels like I'm just tossed aside and not important. She's going to die before she ever sees a picture of him on his wedding day at this rate and he made a big deal about that being important to her, yet he hasn't done it yet and he's had two months.

- Cell phones trigger me. Sounds funny, but my ex used his cell phone to meet women to have cybersex/sext with. All his affairs I found out about because of his stupid cellphone. So when I see PJ on his phone, especially if he was killing time waiting on me to do something and he sees me and puts it away, I get suspicious of what he's doing. That's not fair to him because he's faithful to me in that way so far as I can tell, so that's something I need to work on.

There use to be more, and I'm probably forgetting some, but I've managed to get a handle on some of them. I'm no longer paranoid that he is or will cheat on me. I've seen no indication of that so I was able, with time, to put that fear aside. I haven't been able to do that with his parents; he still maintains that someday we'll all reconcile. I just don't see that happening, yet I desperately want to be a part of his family. I kind of hate myself for that after how they've treated me. I was so excited to meet all of them, so it was such a hurtful thing when I was rejected instead. I just don't see any forward movement with them without us ALL going to family counseling. I cannot give 100% to it, they have to give some too.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

so... your triggers are pretty much related to painful experiences you have suffered as an adult?

thinking of your in laws brings up the event(and feelings) where you were tossed to the side. obviously there is a lot of insecurity there because he still has not shown you that he WILL choose you over them if they push him to choose. 

quickly putting his cell phone away when you approach reminds you of how you felt when you were being cheated on. 

and the indication that you are not important goes back to both instances where you were abandoned and where you were cheated on. 

yeah, i seriously doubt you suffer a PD. these all seem like pretty normal triggers to me, considering where you come from.


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

They tie in to triggers from my past as well. I was tossed from one relative's home to another as a kid. I saw two attempted murders. My mom moved out totally when I was 6 but she wasn't around much before that, too busy looking for Mr. Right after my bio dad turned out to not be him. She found him and left me. I saw her on weekends, sometimes. She made me move in with her when I was 10 but I didn't want to be there, I didn't really know her, you know? 

I was raised primarily by my great-grandma, my aunt & uncle who were drug users/dealers, and my homicidal/suicidal/writes-scary-things-on-the-wall-in-lipstick grandma. They are all thankfully pretty normal now. No more acting crazy for them, at least no more crazy than anyone else.

Every bad thing that ever happened to me started with my mom or whoever was suppose to be keeping me at the time, leaving me behind while they went off and escaped the family fighting. I wasn't kept safe as a kid. I desperately seek that kind of safety now; safety from people I see as bullies (like his parents). I expect him to keep me safe from them, but I worry I'm expecting too much. I feel like I won't feel safe unless they are totally cut off from us, and that's not fair to him, is it? 

I haven't learned much in the way of self-soothing so I'm still like a kid looking for a trusted adult to keep me safe and scare away all the bad scary stuff.


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

I sound like I should have a Lifetime movie about me. I went years not being able to talk about any of that except to my best friend.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

well, you still need someone to reassure you. so, exactly how can he reassure you? what can he say and do to calm your fears?

these are the things he needs to know. he may just be shutting down because he doesnt know how to calm these fears in you. and if thats the case, it means he wont try. and if he doesnt try, the fears grow stronger because you arent getting any reassurance. 

so... think about it. you probably wish he would just say something or text you something... i dont know what, but there is SOMETHING that would sooth you. find out what it is, explain to him why you need it. give him a road map on how to make you happy. 

if he still loves you and wants to make things work, he will likely give it a try. every time he steps out and tries to calm you in the way you have asked him to, encourage it. thank him. 

remember, those triggers remind you of a lot of dark times. there are little things here and there that put you back to those times. understanding that is only half the battle. the other half is effectively communicating it so that HE understands it too. when you trigger, you have to let him know that you over reacted because the situation reminded you of something in the past, and acknowledge it was not something that he intended. 

after a lot of the crap i have been through, i understand triggers... but i also know that if i dont explain them to my wife and acknowledge that she didnt intend to make me feel the way i felt, it will just drive a wedge between us. she is likely to give up if she thinks she can never win... if that makes any sense. 

it also keeps me from building up resentment against her. acknowledging that it isnt her fault keeps me from blaming her. sounds to me like you already have that one down though.


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

I feel like I need to see or hear him tell his parents that what they did wasn't okay, the things they said weren't okay, then tell them that he will distance himself from them if they continue to treat me like I'm the sole source of every bit of our problems. 

That's unreasonable to him though. He refuses and says that I'm overreacting and my version of events aren't what really happened. He refuses to tell me his version of events though. I know what was said to me. I still have the emails. We've both read the emails from his mother. I can't make up things she's said in them if he's seen them too. What it comes down to is that saying things like "you're just using BPD as an excuse" to him is a valid thing to say, and I deserved to hear it. He sees nothing wrong with it, so he won't acknowledge that it effects me negatively.

He repeatedly tells me I have to figure out what I need to do to keep him, while telling me to fix things I cannot fix right now. I cannot snap my fingers and be okay. If I tell him "hey, I need this thing from you," or "I'd like an apology for you lying to me about X," I'm criticizing him. but it's ok for him to give me an ultimatum because he is very quick to list all my problems, but very resistant to admitting or seeing anything he has done that has caused problems for us.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

hmmm... im going to have to think about this one. 

i imagine those kinds of requests make him feel defensive. which is not exactly good, but you still may be able to get what you need if you can find another way of saying it without triggering defensiveness. 


TAM, i need ideas.


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

I asked him to weigh in here and he refuses. He gets defensive very quickly (about as quick as I can go off the deep end, so I guess we're even there).

I feel like I'm the only one willing to talk about any of this and actually listen. Maybe that's unfair to him, I don't know. I value the opinion of people - but hey, I'm a woman. We talk. It's what we do. It's how we solve things. I haven't seen that as much with men in general (no offense).

Thank you for talking with me, As'laDain.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

vms said:


> I asked him to weigh in here and he refuses. He gets defensive very quickly (about as quick as I can go off the deep end, so I guess we're even there).
> 
> I feel like I'm the only one willing to talk about any of this and actually listen. Maybe that's unfair to him, I don't know. I value the opinion of people - but hey, I'm a woman. We talk. It's what we do. It's how we solve things. I haven't seen that as much with men in general (no offense).
> 
> Thank you for talking with me, As'laDain.


from what you have said about how his family is, i can see why he would be defensive... 

and i get why he would be defensive with you in regards to his family. some of the things you have said to him probably hurt. 

but yea, we would really benefit from his input. he could come and "set the story straight" with me, for instance. i am the one who called him weak, after all. sometimes i trigger too... 
maybe its the NCO in me. our whole job is to take care of joe... and thats what i love about being in a position of leadership. i like that aspect. 

the thing is, relationships thrive with open communication. he may have something to say that he knows will trigger you, but if it is how he really feels, he needs to say it and you need to listen. and vise versa, he needs to listen to you too. 

have you shown him the thread?


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

He's really, really mad at me for even askign here.

Apparently me getting help meant I get help, but not mention him. Because he feels judged and so now I'm s*** cause I didn't leave him out of OUR marriage problems. Strangers on the internet have judged him, THE HORROR!

To say I'm triggered right now, would be a pretty big understatement. I feel like I'm s***. Absolutely worthless. I asked for help and now that's just another thing he's mad at me for.

this feels hopeless.


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

I linked him to the thread. Since he was called a coward, he has dismissed everyone here. 

I shouldn't have said anything to him. I knew better.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

he could always come set me straight...
i would love his input. 

this forum does much better with both partners posting. we rarely get both sides of the story.


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## ToothFairy (May 19, 2013)

I think he was done before you ever started. Honestly, with the issues you say you have I wouldn't want my son to choose you as a partner either. Your husband tried to tell you he didn't want to get married by his actions and you didn't listen. You forced the issue and he caved in for some reason. 

You can become a great partner but I suggest you start with being a great woman. Work on YOU and stop worrying about HIM. Stop "breeding exotics",... I assume this takes time and money? and start investing in yourself.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Maybe that's how he feels? Is it? I hope he is still reading...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

As'laDain said:


> he could always come set me straight...
> i would love his input.
> 
> this forum does much better with both partners posting. we rarely get both sides of the story.


I know. It's usually just one side, whether it's online or in person. 

He says the hurt is pretty much all we have at this point. It certainly feels that way. I tend to try and utilize all the resources I can, but he generally hasn't been open to reading articles or asking for help. I sent him a link on Monday to a podcast talking about the differences between how men and women solve problems, and he just said "I don't care." Wouldn't even listen to it.

I link him to stuff like that to help us and that kind of response just makes me feel like it's a lost cause. More specifically, like I'm a lost cause. I tell him that's how I feel when he does that, but then he says I'm criticizing him. 

He can be very loving, he provides for us, he's worked hard at his career, he's very smart and funny. I just feel like emotionally, my tank is totally drained and I'm just suppose to live with that because all those other boxes are checked. He feels the same way. 

How do we get anywhere when we both feel like we are doing the same thing to each other, but neither of us see what we are doing as being much like what the other is doing?


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

ToothFairy said:


> I think he was done before you ever started. Honestly, with the issues you say you have I wouldn't want my son to choose you as a partner either. Your husband tried to tell you he didn't want to get married by his actions and you didn't listen. You forced the issue and he caved in for some reason.
> 
> You can become a great partner but I suggest you start with being a great woman. Work on YOU and stop worrying about HIM. Stop "breeding exotics",... I assume this takes time and money? and start investing in yourself.


I'm not sure "give up your career aspirations" is sound advice...


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## ToothFairy (May 19, 2013)

It sounded by your post more like a hobby. I don't understand why you would marry someone in the military when you are tied down to a small town because of these animals. 

Did you not realize that military families move and sometimes very often?


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

Animals are mobile too. It's not like I have giraffes in the back yard lol


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## Kresaera (Nov 8, 2014)

Hi vms, I'm sorry you're dealing with this and I'm sorry your husband is dealing with it as well. I related to a couple different things you said. 

First of all, I have Clinical Depression, Generalized Anxiety and OCD. My husband had to learn how to deal with me and how to argue with me so we would have productive arguments. I had to teach him how to do this, it was hard work but it paid off in the end. A lot of what you are feeling sounds like Anxiety/Depression to me. My past is ****ty too, lots of abuse, drug addictions, etc. My triggers are terrible sometimes and other times they don't seem to bother me at all. Cell phones are a trigger for me as well btw 

Another thing you mentioned was the in-laws. My mother in-law doesn't hate me per say, but she did tell me on my wedding day that she didn't approve and when we we having our baby, she told me she didn't approve of that either. It hurts, very much to have those things said to you. My husband used to be just like yours in the sense he wouldn't take up for me. He had a friend who liked to talk **** to me and threaten me and all kinds of horrible things. He recently told her to ****** off and that we were happier without her. She didn't like that at all, but we are happier without her. 

And the other thing was him reading articles and forums and stuff. My husband was never a big researcher into fixing us. He felt that we could do it on our own, until I had my own affair. Now he is all over the internet (even lurking on this site sometimes) and reading everything he can to find out why and/or what to do to fix us. Sometimes it takes them to feel like you do in order for change to happen. 

Good luck to you, I hope things work out.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

From the sound of it, your behavior (even though you are trying to stay as lucid as you can) perhaps was a bit outside PJ's family's comfort zone...as it appears that they lean on the more conventional side in the first place...or at least how you have portrayed them. For a family culture who likes things on an even keel and maintaining decorum, you probably gave them grave concerns. And for an officer, instability in his home can very well threaten his career and reputation if it seeps outside the facade of integrity and honor which must remain intact.

Yes, your husband should have stood by you regarding his family. But he didn't. I think that it will help you immeasurably if you can try to be at a place of acceptance regarding that. As where to go from here, I think once you try to release PJ from the pain of the disappointment he caused you, try to peaceably meet in the middle regarding what he wants, what you want, and what is the best scenario for you two...even if it means ending it. What is the HEALTHIEST step?

We must take into account your mental health. It has been painful for you to be apart, yet you also find yourself slip into asocial behaviors in trying moments...when as an officer's wife, you would be EXPECTED to perform many duties...and while wives aren't expected to be perfect...a bad hair day could reflect very poorly on PJ, a man who must command respect of all his inferiors, yet can't control his wife? Not saying this to be a downer...my purpose is seeing if you being dropped in the center of officer culture might be a stress trigger. 

It is important wherever you are that you have support. It sounds like your family is warm and supportive, but you know that you'll not be getting much of that from PJ's family...even if you somehow miraculously bury the hatchet with them...you won't be able to call on them when times get difficult. 

Whether PTSD or BPD, being undiagnosed and untreated is not helping...and PJ needs to see that it can't be wiped away, yet is dishonoring you by leaving you dangling. He can't hang on the fence regarding this, with you one one side and his family's wishes on the other. He made the motions to marry you, but can't get there all the way. He also can't seem to set a boundary with his family...can't seem to decide to dump you to honor them or dump them to honor you. He's gotta choose...and stand by it, whether good or bad.


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

Kresaera said:


> Hi vms, I'm sorry you're dealing with this and I'm sorry your husband is dealing with it as well. I related to a couple different things you said.
> 
> First of all, I have Clinical Depression, Generalized Anxiety and OCD. My husband had to learn how to deal with me and how to argue with me so we would have productive arguments. I had to teach him how to do this, it was hard work but it paid off in the end. A lot of what you are feeling sounds like Anxiety/Depression to me. My past is ****ty too, lots of abuse, drug addictions, etc. My triggers are terrible sometimes and other times they don't seem to bother me at all. Cell phones are a trigger for me as well btw
> 
> ...


Thanks Kresaera. Like As'deLain said, I need to figure how he can help me, but I just don't know. I even went to premarital counseling by myself, and her advice was basically "Can you learn to live with it?" Without him in on the counseling, it wasn't too helpful. It was nice to talk about it, though.

I've bought us both books to read. Suggested doing those "X # of questions to ask your spouse" lists. This isn't the first forum I've tried to get help on, but I see them differently than he does. He doesn't see it as neutral third parties, he sees it as an angry mob out to get him. He doesn't see any benefit to talking about our problems with other people, except now he is at least seeing his own counselor. I take advice from places like this and see if I can apply it. 

I need to talk out stuff like this. That is my process. It's always been my process. That's not his process.



FormerSelf said:


> From the sound of it, your behavior (even though you are trying to stay as lucid as you can) perhaps was a bit outside PJ's family's comfort zone...as it appears that they lean on the more conventional side in the first place...or at least how you have portrayed them. For a family culture who likes things on an even keel and maintaining decorum, you probably gave them grave concerns. And for an officer, instability in his home can very well threaten his career and reputation if it seeps outside the facade of integrity and honor which must remain intact.
> 
> Yes, your husband should have stood by you regarding his family. But he didn't. I think that it will help you immeasurably if you can try to be at a place of acceptance regarding that. As where to go from here, I think once you try to release PJ from the pain of the disappointment he caused you, try to peaceably meet in the middle regarding what he wants, what you want, and what is the best scenario for you two...even if it means ending it. What is the HEALTHIEST step?
> 
> ...


I won't ever have to be "The Officer's Wife" since he's starting outprocessing now. He only has four months left. He's a part of a unit but he has no place in it - no job or anything. He goes on a post a few times a week to check his government email and attend the outprocessing meetings, but that's it. 

I know he feels like he's lost since he went from company commander to practically a civilian overnight. That isn't helping his stress level any. He's worried about providing for us when he's no longer getting his Captain's pay. He's worried about getting into the teaching program. He's worried about us and this custody hearing. Nothing can just be tabled for later though, because there will ALWAYS be something stressful going on. That's life. 

I don't know how to meet him in the middle. I don't know what his middle is. He does not want to talk about any of it. I'm not sure what my middle ground is at this point, either, because I don't have a gauge of what is okay for me to expect from him. I don't think he has that gauge, either.

I feel like him and his family stab me, then yell at me for bleeding on their rug. It doesn't feel like there is much personal responsibility taken on their end. They probably feel the same way in regards to me. I feel like we are all stuck in a "Do everything I want or you suck, and you already suck cause look at all the s***** things you did" standoff. That's not a place I can heal from, and neither can they.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I'm curious... You were in a LDR for 3 years, including him being overseas for two? How well did you really know each other when you got married? How long did you date while living in the same geographical area?

Maybe you're just finding out now his real personality and attitudes. In which case, letting him go and working on yourself is still my advice.

C


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

PBear said:


> I'm curious... You were in a LDR for 3 years, including him being overseas for two? How well did you really know each other when you got married? How long did you date while living in the same geographical area?
> 
> Maybe you're just finding out now his real personality and attitudes. In which case, letting him go and working on yourself is still my advice.
> 
> C


We were friends for a year before we even started dating. We've known each other for about 5 years. 

I know him better than I know my closest friend of 19 years. He and I talk about everything. We can still have conversations that last hours about anything. That's why I really don't want to just give up. Even with our problems, he is still my best friend and I can't imagine finding anyone like him ever again. We're both very nerdy, both into things other people wouldn't understand. I have my snakes and lizards and tarantulas, he has his VERY nerdy hobbies, and we totally support each other in those - he doesn't tell me "You bought ANOTHER spider?!" and didn't freak out when he was visiting last month and I was super excited because my brown widow eggsac hatched and OMGBABIES!!! and I don't ask him if he's tired of painting tiny tanks and tiny men for his complicated military boardgames or how he can read yet another 1,000 page book on some obscure war no one but him and the author remember.

That's just not the kind of thing you give up on, to me.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

exotics... i love exotics. 

i used to sell them in florida. 

when i get out of the army, one of the first things i am going to do is buy a young avicularia versicolor. i love watching those things grow...


it sounds like you two need one thing more than anything else....
to stop living APART!


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

As'laDain said:


> exotics... i love exotics.
> 
> i used to sell them in florida.
> 
> ...


I have had THE WORST LUCK with Avics. My friends can breed and raise them like crazy, and mine? I have two left out of around 10. I've failed at Versicolor, Avic avic, and metallica. I have just one diversipes and one mystery avic which was sold as A. purpurea but was definitely not. Most likely a metallica, but since I don't know for sure, I can't breed it ever. It's beautiful though.

If you want a super fun species, check out Acanthoscurria. I have a female that's around 8" and she's a beautiful beast. They're very hardy and just need a full water dish to be happy (that species for some reason really really loves their water).


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

Well, to update, he says that "our future, if there is one, isn't in sorting out 2012. The past is where you live and everyone else has moved on."

The events were traumatic to me, and the events revolved around him and his family and me. But he doesn't want to be a part of my healing process. So how do I heal without him participating?


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

good question. if you do heal, you will have to do it without him. in which case, why bother being married?


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

yeah. He told me just now that "You can keep your forums and your whiny little Facebook posts. Big bad PJ and his f***ing monster parents will sustain you and your anger forever."

For the record, half of what I say on FB is rather vague and often not even about them, but my ***hole ex husband. And in any case, how dare I say anything to my friends. How dare I reach out for help, that's just me being a victim. (My FB is very private, I only have people on there I know personally, for what that's worth.)

I actually told him "f*** you" after he sent that text. I really can only take so much and this "you had nothing bad happen to you, stop being a victim" crap is more than I can take. If he can't acknowledge that what happens needs to be actually addressed, then he's right, there is no future. 

I don't see how his own counseling sessions are helping anything. He said his counselor told him that he needs to be more sympathetic to me, but I see zero attempt at that, and a whole lot of slinging hurt my way because I want some damn closure.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

yikes...

is there any way you two can get together physically? as in, not live apart? i think these are issues your going to have to work out face to face...


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

We will, but not until after the custody stuff. 

I do need to stop dwelling on it. I know this. I have to figure out how.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

plan something. community events, a nice day with your daughter, a trip you would like to go on... etc. 

when you start planning things out, you engage the logical part of your brain, so the emotions become lessened. the more you practice taking your mind off of the thing that triggers you, the less you are triggered. 

its kinda like the whole distraction thing... you distract yourself from thinking about the thing that triggers you. you HAVE to in order to plan anything. 

if you dont believe me, just try putting a series of events in chronological order. you cant do it without thinking about it.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

One of you is going to have to take the high road and put the brakes on this dance of death that is killing your relationship.

I forget what book it is, but the "dance of death" is the stage in a hurting marriage where each spouse has resorted to blaming each other back and forth, holding each other responsible for everything gone wrong...yet refusing to yield to each other or risk taking any blame for fear of "losing" their perceived highground. This continues until one or both burns out and then the fighting and bickering subside because one or both just doesn't care anymore. Once apathy begins...it's almost impossible to reverse and is a marriage killer...hence the dance of death. 

You have to stop this by getting out of the trap of blaming each other back and forth...and taking an orderly approach of speaking aloud feelings and non-judgmental listening. The one speaking should use "I" statement. I feel this...or I felt this when this happened. NOT "_you_ always" or "_you made me_ mad, sad, glad, or this or that." Be responsible for you own thoughts, feelings, actions...trusting that your partner will be responsible for his own as well. The listener needs to listen without interruption or trying to steer the speakers words. The listener also need to control body language that could be perceived as incendiary, still trying to control the speaker via sighs and grimaces.. When speaker if finished, the listener NEEDS to be able to repeat the gist of what the speaker said and meant to show that the transmission was received and understood. 

It sounds like PJ is there or is very close to hitting apathy.. He is telling you his needs and you are telling him your needs, but both of you are so focused on your own needs and making sure they are heard and met, that the bottom has fallen out. 

I wish PJ had really stuck around because this forum, while can often jump to conclusions at times...usually can offer some pretty good advice. So honestly, vms, you are going to have to be the one to take the high road and risk vulnerability enough to lay down the offense. Is there a risk that your peacemaking won't be recognized or ran over...yes, but fighting in order to be the first to be heard is the wrong way to say to someone, "I am still hurting from this. I feel alone and scared, and I feel like I don't have anyone to turn to."


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

i really wish he would show up and tear me a new ass hole for jumping to conclusions. im an enlisted man. im used to it. 

i cant do much when he wont speak though. there is probably something he needs from you too. sounds like he wants the conflict to be resolved, so that its not something that just keeps getting brought back up to be wielded over his head whenever things arent perfect. he is probably just as burnt out as you are.


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

I use "I" statements. "I feel," "To me, it seems as if...," "When you do X, I feel Y." I try to phrase things so that they are coming from my point of view. That just doesn't work with him. He hears "you" regardless. 

I get so frustrated trying to talk to him because I use every bit of advice on how to talk with someone, and it just does not work for him. I think someone who is defensive all the time, isn't going to be able to switch that defensiveness off until they learn how to. 

I dunno, maybe I'm still doing it wrong. Maybe there's something else I'm doing that he feels attacked by. I do know that trying to talk to him with "I" statements didn't work from the very beginning, and he won't communicate that way. I think he sees a lot of that kind of advice as bunk. He is quick to disregard new things (just in general, he doesn't like change; neither do I but there's a lot of change that's good so I've become better at embracing it).


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

vms said:


> I dunno, maybe I'm still doing it wrong. Maybe there's something else I'm doing that he feels attacked by. I do know that trying to talk to him with "I" statements didn't work from the very beginning, and he won't communicate that way. I think he sees a lot of that kind of advice as bunk. He is quick to disregard new things (just in general, he doesn't like change; neither do I but there's a lot of change that's good so I've become better at embracing it).


My only suggestion then is the advice given in the book, Love & Respect: The Love She Most Desires, The Respect He Desperately Needs by Emerson Eggerichs. It poses basically what is in the title, that men primarily seek respect from their wives and wives primarily seek love from their husbands. This is a great book on how to cross over to each other's side...understanding that withholding love or respect from each other is damaging to a relationship. 

Your husband standing up for you and taking care of the situation was a way that ultimately would have communicated that he valued and cherished you...if he had done so. Yet, his desire to see you follow his wishes in letting go of the offense with his family and getting onboard with everything else, to him, is a measurement of how much respect you give to him...which presently is not much as far he probably is concerned. We do not OWE each other love and respect, but we recognize that they are needs and freely give while refraining from DEMANDING these gifts of love or respect from each other.

Read the book. Ask him to read it too and let him know it is not a male bashing book...but really helps people seek middle ground with a very simple premise.


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## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

Thanks. I just bought it for the both of us on Kindle. He can read it if he wants but I'm not going to bug him about it.


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