# An unfounded worry or something in it?



## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

What do you do when you are moving forward, you have forgiven, and you think of something that's bothering you, but you're not sure what to do with it?

Do you simply ask? Do you take time and consider if you "need" to know and make a reasoned decision on whether to bring it up? Do you leave it and put it away, thinking it's done with now, it needs to stay in the past? Maybe you've worked with a deadline and before that, you've asked away, but after that, you've agreed to put it behind you?

I thought of something yesterday. It sprung up on me: sometimes I think my subconscious is processing events still and this is why all of a sudden a question pops into my mind about things out of the blue.

This probably sounds very inconsequential. It could be nothing. But I think more it's that if it IS something, then he lied, and it's *still* a lie, ie he's covered something up.

My H at the start of his liaison with the OW, was working with her on a project. The way he's told it, is that they'd been working together only a few days and one day she gave him her number if he ever wanted to call her outside of work.

When I found out, I ended up seeing the first text exchange they had. The content was fairly tame; however what has sprung to mind is that although he insists it was her that initiated giving him her number, he didn't give his, he texted her and never said who he was. But she knew it was him.

Now. I could simply be reading too much into this. But it appears to me now that they'd either agreed he wiuld text her, or they'd all ready been in contact.

I haven't found any evidence of phone contact prior to these first messages. It just strikes me as odd he'd message someone who at that point he'd only known for a few days, without any kind of intro or greeting. 

It's not so much what it is that bothers me, but the idea that he might have lied to cover up the depth of what happened, that there's stuff I might not know.

Of course he could have just unthinkingly texted her without saying who he was, and she just knew it was him?

Am I worrying about nothing?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## it-guy (Jan 6, 2011)

I think this could be just a simple lack of detail when he told you how it went down. But I agree that this stuff drives me nuts. I found something similar last week and even though we are close to 9 months out I brought it up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Not about nothing, no...
...but if he's admitted to his A and is working with you, all the right things, transparent, etc. - what's the point you're after? 

To me it's kind of like if you've truly forgiven and are moving forward, what's the difference to this detail? He still cheated, either way, no matter who started it, and you say you've forgiven him for it.

Now believe me, I'm all about having all the details...so I'm not advocating just let it go. I believe either way that you need to be able to get it on the table, but constructively and 'positively', because it will eat at you. The problem is you seem to have agreed not to re-visit this, to keep it in the past...so then unless you think it's a big enough deal to be a 'material change' to what you believe is the truth, I don't know how it does you any good to be confrontationally questioning him anymore. And in this case, feels like there are many explanations that could be true.

What really matters, I think, is to evolve the relationship to a point where this type of stuff is OK to discuss, non-confontatinally, because it IS bothering you and you have a right to be safe in the relationship -- not wondering. He should want that.

But despite this all, I'd do it anyway, because this stuff gnaws at me - which is why I'd not make the commitment to put it all in the past and never discuss it again. I know I couldn't.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Trickle, Trickle, Trickle....











Of course nothing adds up, and if you happen to add it up, and get some more of the slow trickling truth... it will be presented as "didnt think it was important" with whatever story pops in his head or he has concocted to minimize it and stonewall you from any further digging, probably followed by reassurance and subtle "your paranoid" gaslighting... or "didn't want to hurt you" followed by the same minimizing and perhaps a guilt trip about "is this how it's going to be with you forever"...

Sorry if its important to you that you know the "whole truth" and he is apprehensive to give you that truth or filters that truth... there is no reconciliation. It's a false "R". These questions you are asking here if not answered are a cancer that will eat you alive from the inside. There is no timeframe for removing this cancer. Ask.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

It could just be how he explained it. Thing is, he has been very focussed on this first part, of how she approached him, I think he thinks in some way that that is better because it wasn't him that instigated it so that makes it better on his part. I also know that this could mean the difference between whether he is being truthful in saying that was when it started or if there was something happening beforehand. I only have his word that it literally started within days of them first talking properly, if he lied about this then it could mean things were happening before he says they first happened.

2x, yes, I have thought about where this would get me and what I would want out of bringing it up, This is why I haven't yet said anything or decided whether to or not. 

Also, at the time when I forgave him, I *did* say I didn't want to keep talking about it any more. Which I didn't. But I feel so trapped by having said this because he keeps holding me up to it every time I have a question. I certainly don't dwell on it like I used to. However, I have explained to him that if I wonder or come across something that causes me to question things, I would be stupid to pretend it was fine when it wasn't. I feel it would be better to get it out in the open and sort it out rather than push it down and build up resentment wondering.

I may ask. I look at him and I think, he wouldn't possibly have concocted a web of lies this deep. I still say that he's not that intricate to be able to do that. Though he's certainly alert enough to have lied about stuff, hid stuff and offered what he feels is valid reasoning as to why. I think to tell the truth I'm a little scared that if what I know is *not* the reality, then things may be too big for me to ever consider reconciling.

I have said to him all along, that I can deal with the truth. I can have that and work forward from it with all the cards on the table. Openness and honesty mean I know what I am dealing with. What I feel I could not move forward from is the lies. If I ever found out that he had majorly lied and things were more, or deeper than I know of now, I fear I could not move forward with him. I am petrified that I will keep moving forward with him then in how many years' time, discover that he *did* lie, and never be able to get over the resentment of his lies. I have no idea what I need to be able to keep moving.


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Assume he lied about everything. Or lied by omission. That's what way wards do. The fact is, you may never know the truth in detail. But consider everything that happened during the affair was based on affair fog and subterfuge and lies going forward. 

Maybe just concentrate on moving forward. This does take years, btw, and you have every right to keep asking questions. But again, assume that you will keep under covering lies.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

Yeah, I have thought of it like that. He swears he has told me everything. I remember right after it happened, I asked him did we need to go get tested for STIs, he looked at me like I was crazy and said no way. There are a couple of factors which make this whole thing more work-through-able for me, the first is that they never met outside of work, and second is that it never went to PA.

Up until recently, I have never really questioned either of these. I am still pretty certain they never did meet outside of work. I am fairly sure it never went to PA, he has sworn all along it never did and has been consistent in this.

Thing is, I just keep finding these little, but questionable things. They always seem to be things that are 50/50: they could easily indicate a PA, but could also equally be nothing.

I have always trusted my instincts. In a previous long-term relationship, my then-BF was a habitual liar. I grew to be pretty spot-on at either knowing he was lying when he spoke or spotting the clues and following up to confirm my suspicions. I'd say 98% of the time I was right in thinking he'd been lying. This time however, I am torn. I thought I knew my H so well, but even though the EA is done and he's out of the fog, I still last week found him having deleted a questionable text message and telling me it was "to protect me." I can't shake him saying that; it makes me think what else might he have kept from me to protect me.


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## COGypsy (Aug 12, 2010)

Usually if I'm exchanging numbers with someone, unless it's through email or business cards, one of us gives their number, the other puts it in their phone and then either dials or texts right back so that both people have each other's numbers in their phones and can just add the contact info. 

I think from what I've seen, that there is probably quite a bit that your husband hasn't entirely shared, but it doesn't sound like an entirely strange way to exchange numbers and start texting someone.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

No I know. This is the thing. There's all these little things. I could be just picking up on unnecessarily worrying stuff as I feel hyper-vigilant and in fact there is nothing else for him to tell.

Or I have to consider that in fact he has lied about the depth of the A and there is the possibility that it went deeper than I know or it went PA.

I suspect there is stuff he has told me which is a "bending" of the truth. Not major lies but that he has twisted things around to make it look like it was more her than him. I don't know whether to address this or let it go. I figure that in those cases, what he has told me happened, just not quite like he said.

Like, he told me of a particular incident at work where they were spending lunch together, and he told me that was a time when she made a pass at him. He says he told her no way and that was that. He has stood firm on the fact she jumped on him and he had no intention of taking it to that level. 

However, a couple of things have stood out to me. A, he's a guy. Now, I am not saying in any way that all guys have no self-control. What I am saying is that put in that position, together with a woman he had the hots for and the opportunity, I question whether it was indeed as simple as he says to just say no and nothing else ever happened.

B, I have noticed that when we have been having the more relaxed conversations about stuff, there has been a handful of times that he has referred to that incident as he "kissed that woman." For example, the other day when I asked what his co-workers knew about, he said they knew he "kissed that woman." We carried on talking and I was thinking, hang on, that was a slip wasn't it? He wouldn't refer to it as that if it wasn't what he *knew* would he?

I never took him up on this, but have been telling myself, that I know and he knows he kissed her, he just won't tell it like that. I have not worked out whether I do address it as a bendingof the truth, or just accept it because it's pretty obvious, or go ballistic because if he lied about it, then he could have lied about the other times she supposedly came onto him. I just always thought her responses to him were overly enthusiastic if he kept it as low-key as he claimed to do.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

You know...

Alot of people just cant come back from this type of betrayal, there is nothing wrong with you if you couldn't... Then sometimes there are people who can but it takes a very specific type of *theraphy*... 

in order for them to make it back or really heal and move on with the marriage they _need_ the whole picture, all of it... You may consider that if your ever going to come back... You need to know everything... I think in some people, these questions and this nagging in your soul doesn't go away and "heal" with time... With time, they may go away, but not from healing... they die and with them a piece your love and a piece of the soul dies too... You could grow to hate him for killing that. But, it will take a lot of time. 

Like I said, I believe these questions, like a cancer will slowly eat you alive from the inside out. You may not feel them, or see them at times... But if you dont get them out, they will destroy any hope your marriage has.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> You know...
> 
> Alot of people just cant come back from this type of betrayal, there is nothing wrong with you if you couldn't... Then sometimes there are people who can but it takes a very specific type of *theraphy*...
> 
> ...


You k.ow, when I said I forgave him and wanted to move forward, I meant it. I really didn't want to keep plougjing through minor details if all it was doing was upsetting me, making him feel guilty and not actually doing anything productive. That was from a considered, thoughtful place for me, borne from logic and reasoning.

However. My moving forward keeps being interrupted by these small questions. After I forgave him, I resolved to put any more questions aside and keep focussing forward on healing, thinking it wouldn't change anything.

But I am wondering if I *am* one of the people that needs complete truth in order to move forward. In honesty, I am still suspicious that there was more to it than I know. I feel frozen: frozen by the fear that I may be on the cusp of discovering things that may shatter my world. But also frozen by the fear that I may all ready be in possession of the truth and be seeking some major betrayal that doesn't exist, fuelled by my mistrust and paranoia. And the worst thing is, I have no idea how to decide which of the two it is.

I worry daily that I may be inadvertently sabotaging what now is a better relationship than we had before. As time passes he shows more depth to his love and committment to healing things. He hasn't been perfect and it's fair to say it's been an effort. But I am more sure now of how much he loves and appreciates me since he realized ge may not always have me.

I keep asking myself what I can do. Any plea for total honesty will be met with his insistence that he *is* being honest and has told me everything and he doesn't know what else he can do to make me believe him.

I have a plan. I don't want to resort to tactical measures but it may be the only way to get any semblance of realuty out of this situation. I may go underground and do some digging to see if I can find out anything. At this point I'm not sure what else to do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

walkingwounded said:


> No I know. This is the thing. There's all these little things. I could be just picking up on unnecessarily worrying stuff as I feel hyper-vigilant and in fact there is nothing else for him to tell.
> 
> Or I have to consider that in fact he has lied about the depth of the A and there is the possibility that it went deeper than I know or it went PA.
> 
> ...


"However. My moving forward keeps being interrupted by these small questions. After I forgave him, I resolved to put any more questions aside and keep focussing forward on healing, thinking it wouldn't change anything."


Hard to say kissing is a small thing. I'm not surprised you're having trouble. Small things keep running into each other and adding up. Make a list and bring it up in counseling one by one. Watch WH closely with major eye contact for his reactions. If his story is mostly made up it will be really hard for him to keep it straight. Take notes .


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