# A Serious Tangle, Not Sure How to Move Forward



## ButWeAreStrange (Feb 2, 2018)

I apologize for the length, I'm really not sure how to present this situation since it's extremely difficult to really put into words, but I'm going to try my best. 
For some background information, my husband has bipolar disorder, I have cptsd from childhood abuse. 

A little over five years ago, a mutual friend (much closer to my husband than me) trapped and coerced/raped me. At the time the assault absolutely devastated me and utterly destroyed the progress I had made on my own recovery from childhood trauma. I had told my husband (then boyfriend) about the incident, but couldn't bring myself to admit to being a victim and instead took the blame for it. After having the kind of history of abuse that I have, it was impossible for me to face the reality of the situation and needed to find some control which manifested in my taking responsibility for the entire thing. I figured that since this friend had just returned from an extensive deployment that he just wasn't thinking straight and took it out on me. Miraculously, my husband found it in himself to forgive me and we worked diligently to recover as individuals as well as a couple over my perceived moment of cheating. We both stopped interacting with the mutual friend, who had just entered a serious relationship, and moved on with our lives. 

Fast forward to the last year, we take my sister out dancing one night and she happens to meet him (newly single). They immediately clicked and seemed inseparable and he actually asked my husband for help in proceeding properly to win her affection. My husband, feeling at the time a sort of sympathy for the "friend" (the LTR he entered after raping me had recently ended in his girlfriend's suicide), he helped. At first everything seemed to be alright between them, and I, fully dissociating without realizing it, was just happy for my sister. It wasn't until I started realizing that I wasn't able to be in the same room with him, let alone hold a decent conversation with him without having a beer or some sort of distraction was I able to snap out of my own fog. 

This is where everything pretty much went to ****. After a decent and happy ten months, all of a sudden their relationship started throwing up red flags for emotional and mental abuse (I've spoken to my sister earnestly over the last year and she's adamantly confirmed that she's never been physically or sexually abused by him). After hearing about the various ways he was beginning to change (became controlling over her time/whereabouts, excessive drinking, was actively flirting with other girls, gaslighting, etc) my family, including myself and husband, all came to her to let her know something wasn't right about the situation. Then, like a thunderclap, my dissociation broke and I found myself having a full mental breakdown over what he had done to me. I was suddenly coming to terms with the fact that it was rape and not at all my fault. I was having flashbacks, began shaking when I heard he was coming to visit, and my husband noticed my sudden change in behavior. I first disclosed it to my mom-in-law, just to see if I could talk about it out loud (she had already voiced major suspicions about the guy). She was wonderfully comforting and kind about my attempt to reach out after all these years. I was then able to disclose to my husband found that all of those wounds reopened within him at a new and more venomous depth. He has insisted for years that the "friend" explain himself and the "friend" has never once had the guts to speak to him about it and now what had once been seen as a betrayal of trust has begun an even greater betrayal. 

My next step was disclosing to my therapist, then parents, and finally both of my sisters. Everyone believed me, thankfully, but my sister who is still dating this guy had a terrible time coming to terms with it. As it turned out, the guy had actually admitted to her that he had raped me (I had been operating all these years under the impression that he hadn't realized what he did to me), and she just hasn't found a way to process it. It didn't change him in her eyes in the slightest, but it seemed to add weight to an already growing problem with their relationship. My family can't even look at him anymore and, shortly after my disclosure, he got horribly drunk and irresponsible at a house party that he dragged her to, which promptly got him banned from my parents' home. This was four months ago and the ban remains, but they continue to be dating. This past weekend he apparently got incredibly wasted yet again, and it turns out that he likely has a serious drinking problem that my sister has been hiding from all of us. I honestly think she wants out of the relationship but doesn't know how to or whether it would work in her favor (he is her first with everything, first boyfriend, first lover, etc) so she is very attached. 

The problem now, aside from my sister being in an abusive relationship which my family and I continue to try to help her with, is my husband has reached a boiling point of his own. Now knowing that I was raped by his friend and has now seen an entirely other side of him while this "friend" dates my sister, he's beside himself. His anxiety is through the roof, and he can't fully comprehend even how he feels at this point. He's not at all a violent person, luckily, but he feels both protective of my sister who he sees as his own little sister, and feels owed an explanation and apology from this long-term "friend." 

Like I said, this is a massive and serious tangle, and we're pretty much at a loss for how to proceed from this point. So many factors and facets involved, and I'm concerned for my sister as well as my husband. We honestly did not know this guy was ever going to be capable of any of this. We've known him for over ten years and prior to entering the military he never disrespected a soul. Now as it's turned out, he was hiding this incredibly abusive, potentially alcoholic personality and it's like the entire family is caught in suspension, no one sure what to do. 

I'm not really sure if anyone can help or offer advice but any would be greatly appreciated!


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Your sister, @ButWeAreStrange ~ should be running upon the advice of the family alone! But she's too entrenched in the relationship with him to offer to do anything about it!

I figure that she's a "big girl" ~ and to that end, she may well have to learn her lesson the hard way!*


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Honestly, your priority should be YOU. I cannot even imagine this level of trauma heaped on top of the childhood trauma.

Your sister will or won't take care of herself. But YOU....please take self-care seriously.


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## Tex X (May 17, 2017)

Why is this toxic "friend" still in your lives. Let's recap - he raped you, his previous LTR ended in his girlfriend killing herself, and now he is dating your sister and emotionally abusing her and is a raging alcoholic. I mean how is your husband OK with this guy being around you with the knowledge that he had sex with you (and then later finding out that he actually raped you)? Good lord you and your husband have got to cut this toxic person out of your life ASAP. Seriously like NOW.

And why would your husband want an explanation/apology from this guy? He is an unstable scumbag who deserves 6 ft of dirt for what he's done. Anything that comes out of his mouth is worthless. You guys just need to go NC and cut him out of your life for good. Hopefully your family can talk some sense into your sister and get her away from him as well. It'll be hard based on what you've described, but she is in an emotionally and possibly physically abusive relationship. She needs to get out of there now for her sake as well as for you, your husband, and your family.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

I will keep quiet on this one.
Any response from me would be violent.



TH-


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## ButWeAreStrange (Feb 2, 2018)

Tex X said:


> Why is this toxic "friend" still in your lives. Let's recap - he raped you, his previous LTR ended in his girlfriend killing herself, and now he is dating your sister and emotionally abusing her and is a raging alcoholic. I mean how is your husband OK with this guy being around you with the knowledge that he had sex with you (and then later finding out that he actually raped you)? Good lord you and your husband have got to cut this toxic person out of your life ASAP. Seriously like NOW.
> 
> And why would your husband want an explanation/apology from this guy? He is an unstable scumbag who deserves 6 ft of dirt for what he's done. Anything that comes out of his mouth is worthless. You guys just need to go NC and cut him out of your life for good. Hopefully your family can talk some sense into your sister and get her away from him as well. It'll be hard based on what you've described, but she is in an emotionally and possibly physically abusive relationship. She needs to get out of there now for her sake as well as for you, your husband, and your family.



He is cut out of our lives, and had been for about five years until we accidentally ran into him at a dance night where he met my sister. Then him dating her brought him back into our lives. It was by no means a choice on my end. He's not allowed within miles of our own home which (luckily) is a couple of states away from his. I have no idea why my husband wants an explanation and I've told him that he really needs to address this with his therapist, especially since it's driving his stress levels up the wall. She's already explained to him that he needs to simply let this go, but now with my sister going through everything, I think my husband is feeling a sort of rescue scenario to help her since he wasn't there to help me. 

Fortunately my sister still lives at home with our parents so they're able to (somewhat) control his chances to see her, but it seems like nothing he does is enough to get her to realize she needs to run for the hills. My family is completely lost about what to do and I, for obvious reasons, cannot get in the middle of this. I feel like I'm juggling her well-being, my husband's, and my parents'.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

ButWeAreStrange said:


> *I feel like I'm juggling her well-being, my husband's, and my parents'.*


This is the problem right here. You do not have to juggle someone else's load. Your sister is responsible for her decisions. You are not responsible for her decisions. You have done everything that you can. Your sister is well aware that her boyfriend is not welcome in the family and that he will never be welcome. You do not have to worry about him being at any family gatherings. He is, as you put it, banned.

I'm glad that you have a therapist that is helping you work through this. It is important that you work through your childhood trauma and realize that this situation is not your doing and is not your responsibility to fix. You have done your part.

You are blessed to have a husband who believes you and has your back in this. So many people do not understand trauma and they victim blame. Instead your husband is protective and loving towards you. Work to support and love each other through this. Let your sister know that you will be there for her when she is ready to get away from this evil man. That is the best that you can do for her, but anything else is beyond your control.

Stop discussing it with your husband. Help each other accept this is how it is and to let it go.

It is important that both you and your husband work to accept these truths so you can function in peace.


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## Tex X (May 17, 2017)

ButWeAreStrange said:


> He is cut out of our lives, and had been for about five years until we accidentally ran into him at a dance night where he met my sister. Then him dating her brought him back into our lives. It was by no means a choice on my end.


Look - no judging here, but you should have cried bloody f-ing murder when he went anywhere near your sister at this dance night. That should have been a hard boundary - seriously WTF were you guys thinking? Maybe he's changed? Yeah right. But it is what it is. You and your husband need to make it your mission to get this POS out of your lives for good. That includes you, your husband, your sister, and your entire family. I'm on your side here BTW - just get this guy away from anyone you care about. This guy is poison and is taking everybody down around him.


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## Tex X (May 17, 2017)

ButWeAreStrange said:


> My family is completely lost about what to do and I, for obvious reasons, cannot get in the middle of this. I feel like I'm juggling her well-being, my husband's, and my parents'.


And you are wrong about that - you are key to this. This guy took something from you that you will never get back, and now he is involved with your sister. You are critical to this process. You need to be involved in this for your well being as well as the well being of your sister. Don't stand by and watch this happen.


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## ButWeAreStrange (Feb 2, 2018)

The conflicting advice is pretty much putting into words how I've been feeling and what I feel I can even do. One of the reasons I had stated that I cannot get in the middle of it is that I'm currently seen as a non-neutral party given the fact that I was a victim of his. So my word only carries so much weight. I am also seen as a blame variable for having him banned from my parents' house since he refuses to accept responsibility for his own actions. It's like having to step around eggshells and carefully pick what to say and when since I don't want to scare my sister off and I don't want him to do anything rash. 

Last night I was talking to her, asking about what her next move is going to be and how she plans on handling his alcoholic problem. I told her she needs to set a clear boundary and that if he crosses it then a severe consequence (curtains for the relationship) needs to be held to. She agreed but I could feel her hesitate. She also told me that apparently he had the audacity to say that him getting wasted the other night with another guy was equivalent to a girl getting drunk and then raped and that he is owed a massive amount of sympathy, patience and forgiveness for having been the victim of another guy's drinking problem (btw, he didn't even know the person he felt "coerced" to get drunk with). I think he's starting to spiral since he's been feeling her edging away. He even claimed to have a panic attack while on Skype with her yet if she wasn't looking he would stop his "hyper-ventilating" to see if she was watching. 

At this point I'm willing to do what I can to help her as long as it doesn't put me, my husband or my family in any sort of harm's way. For those who think that I need to be acting on this, do you have any idea how to do that? Or is there another place on TAM that might help with abusive relationships and how to get out of them?


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## Tex X (May 17, 2017)

ButWeAreStrange said:


> The conflicting advice is pretty much putting into words how I've been feeling and what I feel I can even do. One of the reasons I had stated that I cannot get in the middle of it is that I'm currently seen as a non-neutral party given the fact that I was a victim of his. So my word only carries so much weight.


Umm - this man raped you. Not sure if you can prove the rape, but if you can you might consider pressing charges. You have every right to speak up and speak loudly on this issue, and you should do everything in your power to get your sister away from this man ASAP. It sounds like she is in a codependent, emotionally abusive relationship with this guy, and that can be VERY hard to untangle. She is an adult, so she will have to recognize this for herself and be willing to take action. But family and friends need to stay vigilant with her and work through this until she is out of his life. The risk of her staying in this relationship is the high danger to her personal well being. This guy's last woman committed suicide - that is a HUGE risk factor for your sister.



ButWeAreStrange said:


> I am also seen as a blame variable for having him banned from my parents' house since he refuses to accept responsibility for his own actions. It's like having to step around eggshells and carefully pick what to say and when since I don't want to scare my sister off and I don't want him to do anything rash..


Him being banned from your parents house is a good thing. One less place for him to spew his poison. I wouldn't feel bad about that in any way. 



ButWeAreStrange said:


> Last night I was talking to her, asking about what her next move is going to be and how she plans on handling his alcoholic problem. I told her she needs to set a clear boundary and that if he crosses it then a severe consequence (curtains for the relationship) needs to be held to. She agreed but I could feel her hesitate. She also told me that apparently he had the audacity to say that him getting wasted the other night with another guy was equivalent to a girl getting drunk and then raped and that he is owed a massive amount of sympathy, patience and forgiveness for having been the victim of another guy's drinking problem (btw, he didn't even know the person he felt "coerced" to get drunk with). I think he's starting to spiral since he's been feeling her edging away. He even claimed to have a panic attack while on Skype with her yet if she wasn't looking he would stop his "hyper-ventilating" to see if she was watching.
> 
> At this point I'm willing to do what I can to help her as long as it doesn't put me, my husband or my family in any sort of harm's way. For those who think that I need to be acting on this, do you have any idea how to do that? Or is there another place on TAM that might help with abusive relationships and how to get out of them?


Man this guy is a serious abuser. They can be very charming, and of course nothing is ever their fault. He will start to make your sister feel bad about the things he is doing wrong. It will somehow be her fault because he 'is such a good guy'. She will possibly sink to a low point and become severely depressed and try to make up for her 'shortcomings' by doing whatever he says. At some point she may feel so bad about herself that she becomes suicidal - sound familiar? I'm certainly no expert, but I have been around these kinds of relationships before, and it never works out well for the abused. You have to do everything you can to get your sister away from this guy ASAP. She may very well take his side and defend him and try to cut you guys out of the picture for awhile, but you have to keep trying. Eventually she will come to her senses, but that could take time. It would be good for her to find a good therapist to talk to about all this. Hang in there and stay strong.

Cycle Of Abuse ? Envision

Responding to Emotional Abuse: How You Can Help Someone You Know | Springtide Resources


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## Tex X (May 17, 2017)

ButWeAreStrange said:


> As it turned out, the guy had actually admitted to her that he had raped me (I had been operating all these years under the impression that he hadn't realized what he did to me), and she just hasn't found a way to process it.


What is the statute of limitations on rape in your state? I would file a police report ASAP and get this on the books. Your sister needs to go on the record with what she knows.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

> I have no idea why my husband wants an explanation and I've told him that he really needs to address this with his therapist


He may want an explanation because at first you called it an affair and then rape. I have no doubt that you were raped. But he might, especially if he has also posted on the internet and is getting a chorus of: No, man! She cheated. Probably with a bunch of dudes! DNA your kids and take out a billboard!

I'm so sorry this happened to you


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## Tex X (May 17, 2017)

ButWeAreStrange said:


> I honestly think she wants out of the relationship but doesn't know how to or whether it would work in her favor (he is her first with everything, first boyfriend, first lover, etc) so she is very attached.


How old is your sister? It sounds like she has self esteem issues - would you agree? They make very easy targets emotional abusers.


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## Tex X (May 17, 2017)

personofinterest said:


> He may want an explanation because at first you called it an affair and then rape. I have no doubt that you were raped. But he might, especially if he has also posted on the internet and is getting a chorus of: No, man! She cheated. Probably with a bunch of dudes! DNA your kids and take out a billboard!
> 
> I'm so sorry this happened to you


He admitted to her sister that he did in fact rape her.


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## ButWeAreStrange (Feb 2, 2018)

Tex X said:


> What is the statute of limitations on rape in your state? I would file a police report ASAP and get this on the books. Your sister needs to go on the record with what she knows.


I don't know whether I would have to file in the state I was living at the time or the one in which he actually raped me. Either way it doesn't look good for me since it's been so long and there's no evidence anymore. I'd rather leave that whole thing to rot in history. I'm much more concerned with my sister (who would not testify for me since she's still "processing" it) and dragging him through a potential rape investigation would likely give him more fuel to work with. He was also an active Marine at the time so I don't know whether the military would end up having to be involved with the investigation.


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## ButWeAreStrange (Feb 2, 2018)

Tex X said:


> How old is your sister? It sounds like she has self esteem issues - would you agree? They make very easy targets emotional abusers.


She's 24 and has always been a recluse. She was homeschooled for most of her life and struggles with anxiety on her own. I have no idea what he did to appeal to her since he's the exact opposite, but I think initially she gained a sense of confidence because he offered an opportunity to get out in the world and do things and be active in ways she hadn't been able to do by herself.


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## ButWeAreStrange (Feb 2, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> He may want an explanation because at first you called it an affair and then rape. I have no doubt that you were raped. But he might, especially if he has also posted on the internet and is getting a chorus of: No, man! She cheated. Probably with a bunch of dudes! DNA your kids and take out a billboard!
> 
> I'm so sorry this happened to you



He's only ever wanted an explanation from the "friend" since the beginning, not me, and even more so now that he knows what he really did to me. I'm extremely fortunate that he believes me and having my sister back it up with confirmation from the "friend" helped tremendously. Luckily our first child had been born four years prior to the rape and our second three years after, so there was never any concern of paternity. 

I had never heard of this "friend" harming anyone like this prior to me which was one of the reasons why I had originally assumed he hadn't realized what he'd done. Now, of course, I know he knew exactly what he'd done. What I really hate is that apparently this "friend" had given my husband somewhat of a warning about focusing on me sexually prior to the rape, but my husband thought he was joking so he never told me. It wasn't until after I told him about it that he put two and two together. It's also sick to know that the day of the rape, this "friend" and I had met up to get lunch and then go dancing (my husband wasn't able to take me and suggested I go with the "friend" since he knew the club better), and the entire day all this "friend" talked about was how in love he was with the girl he ended up in a long term relationship with right after the rape. I don't understand how someone can spend a whole day pouring his heart out over a girl and then rape someone at the end of it.


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## Tex X (May 17, 2017)

ButWeAreStrange said:


> I don't know whether I would have to file in the state I was living at the time or the one in which he actually raped me. Either way it doesn't look good for me since it's been so long and there's no evidence anymore. I'd rather leave that whole thing to rot in history. I'm much more concerned with my sister (who would not testify for me since she's still "processing" it) and dragging him through a potential rape investigation would likely give him more fuel to work with. He was also an active Marine at the time so I don't know whether the military would end up having to be involved with the investigation.


You'd have to file in the jurisdiction where the incident occurred. I get that you don't want to relive what happened, I'm just trying to impress upon you ways to make this POS realize that you're serious. Eventually it may be more trouble than it's worth and he may just go away. And you don't have to have any hard evidence to file a police report. Your word is enough. If there is no evidence to support the charge, then they will not pursue it. But the important thing is that it's on record, and if any evidence does present itself at a later date, then the case can be reopened at that time.


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## Tex X (May 17, 2017)

ButWeAreStrange said:


> She's 24 and has always been a recluse. She was homeschooled for most of her life and struggles with anxiety on her own. I have no idea what he did to appeal to her since he's the exact opposite, but I think initially she gained a sense of confidence because he offered an opportunity to get out in the world and do things and be active in ways she hadn't been able to do by herself.


Well like I said - emotional abusers are very charming. They seem perfect at the beginning. Then once you get sucked in, you just ride the wheel of abuse around and around. It is very hard to break free from this type of relationship, and even harder for someone with issues like your sister has.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

OP, your sister is nearly as toxic as her boyfriend. She stayed with a guy who admitted to having raped her sister. Let that sink it. Her boyfriend admitted to having raped you, and she did nothing. She didn't even let you know that she knew about it until it became a thing. So, she was okay with being in a relationship with a known rapist. That's pretty profoundly crazy right there. 

Honestly, the ways in which you've described your sister, family, and your own past, all paints a picture of a really dysfunctional family of origin. And that dysfunction appears to be continuing. You told your family this guy raped you, but it wasn't until he showed out drunk at a party that they banned him from family functions? So, rape is okay, but drunk and disorderly is a huge issue? What in the actual hell?!?! That, again, is pretty profoundly crazy. It's just messed up. Really, really, messed up. As appear to be most of the reactions you've reported from everyone involved in this situation. All of you seem to be wrapped up in the drama of what happens next in the relationship between your rapist and your sister. It's as if no one in your entire life has any concept of boundaries whatsoever. It's appalling. 

But the truth is that you don't have to deal with any of this. You, your parents, your husband, your friends and family, everyone who knows him or about him has the option to remove him from your collective orbit. You just haven't. 

If you'd like his presence in your life to end, then you're going to have to be the one to end it. Start by having a calm but serious conversation with your sister. Tell her that you love her but that her choices are making it impossible for you to be in her life. Let her know that you'll be there for her whenever she rids herself of this man, but that you cannot have a relationship with her as long as she continues to invite your rapist into her life. Tell her all that, and mean it. As long as she's with him, don't have anything to do with her. She's not a child, she's a grown-ass woman. It's okay to make her aware that her shockingly bad life choices have consequences. 

Then, have a very similar conversation with everyone else involved, including your family. You will no longer talk about this man or this situation. And mean it. If your mom starts fretting about your sister and their relationship to you, politely tell her you're unwilling to have that conversation. If she persists, hang up the phone or leave the room/house. If your husband wants to complain about how this guy owes him an explanation (wtf?!) remind him that you're unwilling to entertain discussion of this man or this situation. If he persists, excuse yourself and go be somewhere else until he can shut up about what he feels your rapist owes him. Calmly and politely, but with zero room for negotiation or argument. And as many times as it takes for everyone to get the clear message that you are unwilling to engage with this man or this situation ever again. 

Simply permit zero involvement of this man, or his issues, problems or drama, into your life. You do have that power, but only if you're strong enough to use it. If you lack that strength, start working with a highly qualified therapist on building self-esteem and setting and maintaining the boundaries it seems the rest of your family lacks.


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