# How do I get past it and move forward?



## Michelle27 (Nov 8, 2010)

I will try to make this short. 8 years ago, after 7 awesome years together, after some devastating news about his son from his first marriage my husband had a mental health crash. We both believe now that he is either BPD or has strong BPD tendencies. During those 8 years he seemed incapable of being there for me emotionally and raged often. I stayed because he always said he wanted to make things better and yet the important things didn't change in all that time. 4 years ago, I got really serious about fixing things and did a ton of research on marriage help and changed my own actions in response to his anger blowups. I dragged us around to two different marriage counselors and signed us up for a couple's communication course, all of which he sabotaged badly. I then took myself to a counselor as well as our doctor asking for help in helping my husband with his issues. Took awhile but I had to be convinced that not only was it not my job to "fix" him, and I needed to work on myself so I did. In the past 3 years, I've made huge changes in myself, losing 130 lbs and gaining self confidence and my physical health back.

A little less than a year ago, I sat my husband down and explained that his inability to give me the emotional support I need was affecting me greatly and that I knew I was entitled to that after being there throughout his "crash" (as he calls it). He agreed to make more of an effort and yet it didn't change. I'm not proud but I then started to seek out that emotional support for myself and had an affair. 8 months ago, he discovered the affair and vowed once again to make changes. I gave him 6 months to get professional help and while he did get his meds adjusted, and made changes like starting to shower every day, brush his teeth every day (yes, it had gotten that bad) he never did seek the kind of professional help needed. I let it go for 8 months and by chance met another man who started meeting my emotional needs. I made a counseling appointment for myself in order to decide if I could continue on with my marriage under the conditions and that blew things wide open for my husband I think. That's when he told me about his affair and I told him about the guy I was talking to. I had known he had had an affair because of how he rationalized treating me so badly over the years and how I saw him emotionally support various women friends while not being there for me. But the affair turned out to be worse than I could have imagined. It happened precisely during the time I was working my butt off 4 years ago going to marriage counselors etc.. It was with a supposed friend of mine, it went on for almost a year and he was still in touch with her. I didn't care so much about him having had sex with her as much as when I confronted her, she told me how much he was emotionally there for her. That has stabbed me in the back. This information came out only 2 weeks ago.

I have stopped seeing the man I met and he cut off communication with that woman. He swears now that he wants to fix it for us and be there for me, and he has sought psychiatric care as well as looking into DBT and CBT but nothing has begun yet. He has also listened to me effectively for the first time in most of the 8 years. I told him I am unsure I can believe he's going to follow through on getting help with his issues and learn to depend on him after all that has happened. I've been through so much and had to learn to emotionally pull away from him because his anger outbursts were so painful over the years. I do think I want to try but after so many years of him making false promises to follow through I am having difficulty having the hope I actually want to have and to feel like I can fully invest again. I am going to ask my counselor about this and what I need from him to be able to trust that he really means it this time, but I thought I'd post here and get ideas about how I can get past this and work on us with the same effort I gave when I now know he was having an affair. My biggest issues is all of this time I thought because of his issues he was unable to give me the kind of emotional support I needed (and he had given me for the first 7 years we were together) but now I know he made the choice to take it from me and give it to other women. I want to get past that but I'm struggling.


----------



## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

Although I don't agree with what you did I do see how you appear to feel awful for straying and begs the question; If no changes will be made will I do it again. You both need to have a sit down grind it out engagement to decide going forward on what to do. I'd also suggest simply leaving if you encounter or have the urge to stray once more. 

Figure out what you want to do vs what you think can be done.


----------



## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Do you guys have kids?


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Your husband was suffering from a very severe depression. Why did he not seek help? Because for many depressed people, their depression becomes a part of them, it is the only reality that they know.

In order to cope with how his depression made you feel, you cheated on him.

And in order to help him cope with how his depression made him feel (and perhaps how he perceived how you were dealing, or not, with his depression) he cheated on you.

It seems to me that as well as Individual Counselling for you both, that you both might benefit from couple's counselling.


----------



## Michelle27 (Nov 8, 2010)

His affair happened 3 years before it ever occurred to me to do what I did. Not that it matters, except to me because I now know that his happened during the exact time that I was working hard on making our marriage work and he was sabotaging every attempt (refusing to go back to each counselor we tried because he "didn't like" the person , etc. 

Thankfully, I do have counseling for me set up, but I am unsure how to get to a place where I can depend on him to follow through after literally dozens of attempts. He seriously thinks that 2 weeks of communicating effectively should be enough for me to believe that he means it this time. Definitely will be exploring this in my counseling appointment tonight.


----------



## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

Michelle27 said:


> His affair happened 3 years before it ever occurred to me to do what I did. Not that it matters, except to me because I now know that his happened during the exact time that I was working hard on making our marriage work and he was sabotaging every attempt (refusing to go back to each counselor we tried because he "didn't like" the person , etc.
> 
> Thankfully, I do have counseling for me set up, but I am unsure how to get to a place where I can depend on him to follow through after literally dozens of attempts. He seriously thinks that 2 weeks of communicating effectively should be enough for me to believe that he means it this time. Definitely will be exploring this in my counseling appointment tonight.


Perhaps, if the two of you can talk calmly, you can sit him down and explain that you do hear what he is saying. But the problem is trust. For a long time he lied to you, telling you one thing while doing something else. How can you be sure that he is not doing that again.

But there is an elephant in the room, off there in the corner. You have both been unfaithful and you both know the other has been unfaithful. There is basic trust missing on both sides. Are you positively certain that you want to keep trying to save this rather frazzled marriage?


----------



## Michelle27 (Nov 8, 2010)

My counseling session last night was very illuminating. The main reason I signed up for counseling in the first place was because I was tired of hanging onto the resentments after so many years of things being difficult because of his treatment of me as a result of his own issues. I am well known by lots of people for being compassionate, caring and "there" for so many but hanging onto the anger and resentments when it comes to my husband has been so long and so consuming to me that it was getting uncomfortable for me. 

My counselor last night tried to get me to think about what the reason is for hanging onto so much pain. She used the analogy in my first session of drinking the poison you hope hurts others and that was huge, but still not enough to think about letting go. Last night she told me that for some reason it's serving a purpose for me, and brought me to the point of realizing that one of the biggest reasons is likely that the anger and resentments are probably part of the wall of strength I have built around myself and that dropping that wall would allow me to be vulnerable which hasn't been safe for me in my home. This is huge for me and makes perfect sense to me. Of course, I also used that anger and resentment to justify my own actions as far as looking for what I wasn't getting at home.

Now, the hard part. Watching and waiting to make sure he follows through with his part getting help and digging deep into his own issues. This is something he has repeatedly promised and failed to do. One of the questions I had for the counselor last night was how to put boundaries up as far as stating what has to happen in regards to his treatment without "managing" it. She suggested that I reserve a decision on whether I am staying in the marriage or not for 6 months or a year and decide (and communicate) to him what conditions have to be met. So one more thing to ponder.

I do think I may have turned a corner for myself, but still have to dig deep and come to terms with it all.


----------



## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Expect that when you place these boundaries, that you have some reciprocated from him and that you are willing to uphold them, no matter what they are. If you are not, then you need to just exit the marriage gracefully, as you have cheated twice now, so your boundaries about his actions will more than likely strike boundaries from him regarding your destructive behavior.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Geez... what a mess.

Blossom asked earlier if the two of you have any kids together; if not, why not divorce?


----------



## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

And what was the devastating news about his son?


----------



## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

Blossom Leigh said:


> And what was the devastating news about his son?


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/237586-trying-sort-out.html#post11205010:



> Originally Posted by *Michelle27*
> . . . his son had been sexually abused on regular basis in his mother's home by his stepbrothers . . .


----------



## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

omg...


----------



## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Michelle... the biggest problem I see between these two threads is neither you nor your husband understand fully the destructiveness of your individual and collective choices. Infidelity is deadly and I like to compare it to a tsunami. At first it seems like no big deal but once the devastation hits shore it can take many casualties with it and the destruction is far and wide. Both of you need to learn that every time you choose to get close to another married soul you are setting off that chain reaction and people can lose their lives over it. Just ask Conan Hub. He has seen it multiple times. Also the abuses that are going on in this family have got to stop. I'm glad you have gone to classes and have made a lot of efforts, but there are some big gaps here that are totally unaddressed. Why...


----------



## Michelle27 (Nov 8, 2010)

Squeakr said:


> Expect that when you place these boundaries, that you have some reciprocated from him and that you are willing to uphold them, no matter what they are. If you are not, then you need to just exit the marriage gracefully, as you have cheated twice now, so your boundaries about his actions will more than likely strike boundaries from him regarding your destructive behavior.


Wow...only MY destructive behavior matters? 8 years of verbal and emotional abuse directed and my oldest child and myself, apathy about lifting a finger around the house and our household financial matters for that whole time and HIS affair 4 years ago (3 before mine), all while refusing to deal with obvious mental illness issues while I stood by him for 7 of those 8 years before I stepped out isn't destructive? Do you think I ever would have stepped out without his actions and non actions? Absolutely not! The only reason I didn't leave is because of the "in sickness and health" part of my vows. Yeah, he is the only victim here... :scratchhead:


----------



## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Michelle27 said:


> Wow...only MY destructive behavior matters? 8 years of verbal and emotional abuse directed and my oldest child and myself, apathy about lifting a finger around the house and our household financial matters for that whole time and HIS affair 4 years ago (3 before mine), all while refusing to deal with obvious mental illness issues while I stood by him for 7 of those 8 years before I stepped out isn't destructive? Do you think I ever would have stepped out without his actions and non actions? Absolutely not! The only reason I didn't leave is because of the "in sickness and health" part of my vows. Yeah, he is the only victim here... :scratchhead:


Wow...Way to play the victim card in spades!!! I never stated his actions weren't destructive as I didn't think it was necessary as this entire thread you have made it abundantly clear that his actions were destructive, but like you just did have blame shifted your actions onto him and seem to minimize that you have done anything destructive but have merely reacted to his constant bad behavior. 

Yes, I do think you would have cheated, as you made that choice and did it all on your own. My STBXW cheated our entire marriage and I never stepped out even though her behavior towards me would have merited it just as your H's toward you could be interpreted that way. You also cheated a second time, and he only cheated once, so what is the justification for the second A since you are the one that is seeming to be justified in your bad actions? 

Does this mean that his years of bad actions since your A can be excused as he is not hurt by you actions so he is justified in his treatment of you??? I would say no way, it is just as unacceptable for him as it is for you.

Could I have cheated and blamed it on my STBXW's actions? You bet I could, instead I chose the honorable route and tried to fix things, remained honorable, and have now decided to exit the marriage and never cheated. It is not a given that it happens or is excused when the other spouse is heinous, as cheating is still a choice ad yours solely to own. You never stated that you knew he had an A, and then when he came clean years later (and after both of your As) all of the sudden you knew about it the entire time, and it was the thing that made all the difference in you having your A. 

Face the truth, you had no idea he had cheated and yet you still did as you felt justified by his other destrucitve actions. Own your decisions, as they were your choices that you consciously made. Funny that you quote the "in sickness and health" vow but neglect the "through good times and bad" vow. What about the love, honor, cherish, and obey vows as well? How about 'til death due us part?? So only one vow is worth upholding and staying around while the others aren't, as they don't fit your justification scenario??

I was not trying to say only you were destructive in your actions (as you have made it abundantly clear that his were), but you seem to think that only he needs boundaries due to his destructive behavior and these boundaries are only set and apply to him. I was stating that you too need boundaries and he is right to require/ request them of you equally as you are requesting them of him. You both have screwed up big time and the other has the right to set and enforce a boundary to enable the marriage survive and heal. If you aren't willing to accept that, then maybe it is time to move on. That is what I was saying, but you are so tied up in blaming him for everything bad that you can't see the truth about yourself as well.

 :scratchhead:


----------



## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Michelle27 said:


> Wow...only MY destructive behavior matters? 8 years of verbal and emotional abuse directed and my oldest child and myself, apathy about lifting a finger around the house and our household financial matters for that whole time and HIS affair 4 years ago (3 before mine), all while refusing to deal with obvious mental illness issues while I stood by him for 7 of those 8 years before I stepped out isn't destructive? Do you think I ever would have stepped out without his actions and non actions? Absolutely not! The only reason I didn't leave is because of the "in sickness and health" part of my vows. Yeah, he is the only victim here... :scratchhead:


Ha ha! It never changes. It never changes. 

My advice to you is move on, learn some boundaries and accept your own shortcomings. Your husband is mentally ill compounded with an immoral streak. You are a victimy victim who loves sympathy. Get over yourself and get straight.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Michelle27 (Nov 8, 2010)

Of course I accept my own actions and have been honest with him about mine while he denied his. Not for one second do I think that what I did was right, and nowhere here nor in my head do I think mine were any more justified than his. I came here for advice in moving forward and possibly healing the hurts so that we can perhaps get back what we once had, if that's possible. I didn't expect to ask for advice in a support board and get raked over the coals like this. I tried to be concise about the background and a few paragraphs encompassing the better part of a decade perhaps don't convey everything that happened as well as I'd like but I tried.


----------



## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Michelle27 said:


> Of course I accept my own actions and have been honest with him about mine while he denied his. Not for one second do I think that what I did was right, and nowhere here nor in my head do I think mine were any more justified than his. I came here for advice in moving forward and possibly healing the hurts so that we can perhaps get back what we once had, if that's possible. I didn't expect to ask for advice in a support board and get raked over the coals like this. I tried to be concise about the background and a few paragraphs encompassing the better part of a decade perhaps don't convey everything that happened as well as I'd like but I tried.


Advice? Okay. Here it is. 

Quit cheating. Don't cheat anymore. Either work on restoring your marriage or end it. 

There. That is my advice to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Michelle, as long as both yourself and your husband are fully willing to own your respective transgressions while working to repair the damage that they've wrought, your marriage stands a chance.

BUT... if I'm reading what you've written correctly, it would seem that you are much more willing to work on your marriage than your husband, or at least that's been the holding pattern until fairly recently. That won't cut it, and you know it. If he's not at least as willing as you are to get in front of all of the skeletons in your collective and individual closets, your marriage won't survive. Period.

Honestly, I don't see it working out; I see your husband committing for a while, improving a bit (maybe even significantly), and then slowly settling into a more relaxed stance. Slowly but surely, things will fall by the wayside, and his efforts will wane.

Now... having said that, I'm obviously not familiar w/ all of the subtle nuances and dynamics that exist within your marriage, so I may be completely wrong.

But I don't think that I am. Sorry. 

What sort of efforts has he made lately? Do you think that he's consulting TAM (or a similar site) as well?


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

LostViking said:


> Advice? Okay. Here it is.
> 
> Quit cheating. Don't cheat anymore. Either work on restoring your marriage or end it.
> 
> There. That is my advice to you.


Simply not cheating won't be enough (for either of them) at this point.


----------



## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

Adivces. 

So. 
Hm...

Well, you don't liek being raked over the coals. 
Hinty hint: 
This foorum attracrts men,. Because when a wife cheats, she is empowering. When a man does t, he is a pig. so the social support for a BH is pretty,....lacking in the real world. 
And you get a large population on here of men that have been betratyed byh their wives, (like you!) and they are angry. 
Aned they can't gert angry at their wife because I believe that is illega,l. Or just a bad idea. 

Something like tht. 

So they direcat it at you. 

And of course you have the outliers. Other peoiple. 


so remember, they'll punch you. 
Because they
re hurt and something. 

As for advice? 

Tragic situation. 
But i would sway divorce. 
People that are bipolar, (if they are, BPD seems to be an easy excuse for lazy eople to get awy with shyt) won't change. For long. Sure, they'll have their mania, then depresssion. 

Don't waste the next whatever many years of your life with a guty you don't think you'lbe happy with,. 
Divorce, and find someone else. 

And support the kid. He is a big victim here. Or jsut dio what you believe is right, to you at least. 
At some point, you may have to cut it out. 
Who knows. 
But is lnice on here to see parents that are gouing through divorce, that can still ove their kids,. 

Well, at lest some parents.


----------



## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Michelle27 said:


> Of course I accept my own actions and have been honest with him about mine while he denied his. Not for one second do I think that what I did was right, and nowhere here nor in my head do I think mine were any more justified than his. I came here for advice in moving forward and possibly healing the hurts so that we can perhaps get back what we once had, if that's possible. I didn't expect to ask for advice in a support board and get raked over the coals like this. I tried to be concise about the background and a few paragraphs encompassing the better part of a decade perhaps don't convey everything that happened as well as I'd like but I tried.


Sorry but I see it as justification and defensive. All I stated was be prepared to accept the boundaries he sets as it is only fair and you jumped on my comment because I described your actions for what they are destructive. You have spent the entire time discussing how awful he was, and I agree with that, and how your actions were nothing more than the result of your response to his actions and you wouldn't have cheated if he hadn't have done something. Sorry but that is text book justification. 

You admit that you didn't know about his affair yet are using it as an excuse for you having your affair after the fact. That is text book blame shifting, justification, and history rewriting. When these occur it is not accepting and owning your actions but justifying why they happened. Which is why is why I say own your actions. He needs to own his as well. You are not being raked over the coals but merely being told to own your actions and have gotten lots of advice to move on and divorce. 

I disagree with broken that it is lots of BH beating up on you for no reason. That is nothing more than blame shifting as well. People just can't seem to understand that because you are a BH doesn't mean you can't tell it like it is and are on some vindictive mission. You wanted advice and that is what is given. Own your actions. 

Just stating you know and accept you did them is not owning them when you are blaming them on the result of someone else's actions. You need to realize that no matter where you were at in your life and for whatever reason, you made the choice to cheat and it was only you that made it. No matter how crappy your life was there was always that option not to cheat, so it was solely your choice as you could have done something else instead of cheating. The same as he could have chosen better actions also and needs to be held responsible for his actions but not for yours. He is equally responsible for the failure of the marriage (and may even be responsible for the majority of it, I can't say from not knowing the situation and only getting one side's story) but you are 100% responsible for your cheating. It is insulting to those that have been faced with the same situation you have been in and yet acted differently. As several BH and BW alike, have been faced with the same situations as you and managed to not cheat and remain honorable, so to say it wasn't your fault but his is insulting to them. Don't think they haven't had the same hurt and wanted to do the same yet held back. It was solely your choice. Own it. 

Neither of you are victims here at this time, because you have equally made the toxic environment you live in and are now products of it. You stopped being the victim when you contributed to its toxicity and therefore you need to both have boundaries to insure the madness stops. If you both can't accept that then you need to move on. All you have talked about is his boundaries and how he needs to have them enacted and became outraged when I recommended the same for you. I was not defending him just stating that you both messed up equally and need boundaries as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

Michelle,
The bottom line is that this is a forum for people who have experienced infidelity through the actions of a WS. For those who commit infidelity, these boards may seem harsh but it's merely because, despite all your "valid" reasons, infidelity is always wrong and unjustifiable.

Your decision to cheat was inexcusable, period. You said you stayed because of your "in sickness and in health" vow but what of your "and keep only unto him, til death do us part" vow? Should you be commended for keeping part of your vows? Your supposed to keep the whole vow, not the portions that you feel okay keeping, ignoring the rest.

Having said that, the best advice I can give you is for you and your H to find the true meaning of the word vow and decide if you both want to honor one involving marriage. If either of you do not, then take the accepted route in ending a marriage and divorce and move on. If you both do want to be together, then you both must honor every aspect of the marriage commitment including support, boundaries, exclusivity and all the rest.

Your H was wrong in what he did and so were you, all you reasons aside. If marriage is going to work both parties must be in 100% and dedicated to the concept. If the two of you feel you can do that then get some therapy and try to move forward, if not, move on and try to find it elsewhere. What your in now is not good.


----------

