# 180 help



## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

Ok, just to update from my previous thread, ive been trying to do the 180 but im not sure how best to do it...

i started it but then backtracked badly..i had a car crash and she came round and we were trying to find a new car...then I asked if she was still sure etc and if she would go to counselling. And if I could see kids thursday night as well...but she went ballistic!..she got very angry and acted like a spoilt teenager and threatened to leave the house and move up north to sisters with kids...so I said would back of and since then I have just followed the usual 180 type rules for the last three weeks..

but since then things changed abit, she has seems much happier and relaxed, ..i am starting to wonder if there is someone else but I may be wrong..but her behaviour does seem different..so in short

We have been separated for 5 weeks now
I left house to try and give space
She still insists there is 'no hope' of reconciliation
She has a 'plan' and will only let me see kids on Tuesday night and Saturday – she told me this was to get us all used to the fact we would be separated
My daughter (6) is very sad on phone when I ring and asks when coming home..my wife says I should say something to her to explain situation but makes no attempt to help the situation..in fact she just rolls her eyes and laughs!
She has had workmen round to give quotes to finish my DIY but not told me (kids mentioned it)
She is hiding things from me irrationally, she hid an old laptop in the washing basket so I would not find it..she is trying to get it connected to internet but im not sure why she doesnt just tell me?
Her family and two friends are supporting her, although I think her sister would like to see us get back together. Im not sure what her friends think but they are supporting her
She only contacts me to ask for favours regarding the car and to let me know dates for kids
I dont think there is anyone else but now wondering ..I found an empty condom wrapper under her side of the bed when I went on a day she was not in...its from the same lot that we always used...but I had already counted the bag and there is none missing, so unless she took some previously before I moved out, I am hoping its an old one – its odd it appeared there though as was not there the previous week. Im probably being a mug but im hoping it made its way there accidently through hoovering????...i know, I know 

Basically she has turned into the ***** queen from hell!...my family say she has always been like this and I am just getting what they have had to put up with for years!

Sadly I still love her though


Today I went to citizens advice and will talk to a solicitor soon

But what I am not sure of is how to act..should I be happy and chatty, she always liked this about me..if im not she asks whats wrong...but then am I saying its all ok to her?...or should I give her the cold shoulder treatment, but then that will remind her of the bad times?..

any advice appreciated


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## Wrench (Mar 21, 2011)

To be in love with someone you should be getting love back right? I'd work on letting her go, that's a big part of the 180 IMO.

No offence but if the family has heard her complaints for years and you haven't then you've been the problem for years. I only say it because I have been too. 

Snap out of the "love" you think you have and you'll be a better father and you'll feel WAY better.:smthumbup:


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

Wrench said:


> To be in love with someone you should be getting love back right? I'd work on letting her go, that's a big part of the 180 IMO.
> .:smthumbup:


That bit of the 180 isn't well advertised! While you are building your new life up you find you no longer want the old one. 
Not getting love back is really destructive on you. I just gave up on a very long relationship. A crushing defeat and elation at the same time. Mostly I get to sleep at night.


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## Wrench (Mar 21, 2011)

ing said:


> A crushing defeat and elation at the same time


Ain't that the truth!


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

thanks for your replies, i guess thats true

Its hard to give up though especially with children, i keep hoping she will 'see sense' but i know its not as simple as that now

i am better than i was and have started to get some sleep without waking up at 3:30 and then 5:30 each morning

its just sometimes i have bouts of clarity of cold realization of what has happened and i get depressed again

she says 'no hope' and she means it, i guess i will have to accept that and let her go...it breaks my heart but like you said its not really love if shes not returning it

i guess its only by letting go that you can truly move on


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## Wrench (Mar 21, 2011)

It will make you feel a lot better trust me, and those "bouts of clarity" won't knock the wind out of you so much because you're not lying to yourself.

I think you're like me, if she came to you and honestly wanted to work to save your marriage you would cooperate. She knows that by now, so the balls in her court.


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

yea, youre right if she wanted to work things out i would be straight there

but i know thats not an option, at least for the time being, and prob not at all now

i guess its time to get down to the gym 

still, at least i get to watch what i want on TV now


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

ilovemywife7 said:


> .it breaks my heart but like you said its not really love if shes not returning it
> 
> i guess its only by letting go that you can truly move on



I did the "its over" email only yesterday and I can tell you that it is liberating . Scary too. The world is now open to you. 
It sounds to me like you still have to grieve the loss of the relationship. The "us" If you like. If you put alot into it, and it sounds like you did, then that is going to hurt bad.
Let it hurt. It is a healing hurt. Not a destructive one. 
I am so sorry your at this point. I am there too.


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## BluePink (Apr 2, 2011)

I keep trying to find information about this 180 that everyone is referring to but can't find any information on it. Is it a book? A way to live? Can someone give me a heads up on where I can get information on this?

Thank you!!


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## MisterNiceGuy (Jan 26, 2011)

The first mistake most people do when confronted with a spouse that wants to leave is to chase after them with everything you've got. I did it until I started hanging out here. I've been doing a 180 for about 6 weeks. Not always perfect but it gets easier. 

A few things from my perspective.

- It takes longer for the spouse to get clear about what they want than you realize
- The 180 also gives them space and time to figure out what they want.
- Get to the gym! Get busy and try and not think about it. I know it's hard but get out there and do something...

Get in marriage counseling if you can get her into it. It will help you both figure out what the hell is going on...


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## team12 (Apr 16, 2011)

Thanks for posting about the 180. I'm new here, and wanted to know more about it as well. I didn't have any luck when I searched. Thanks again!


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## BluePink (Apr 2, 2011)

Thank you so much, Wrench! I haven't been able to find anything in any of my searches about the 180. You're a lifesaver!!

And welcome team12, even though I wish none of us had to be here!


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## nuk (Apr 11, 2011)

Thank you for posting the 180. My wife and I have been separated for about a month now. Although her emails state that she wants to work it out, her actions show otherwise. When we were first separated, I chased after her but I have pulled back for about 2-3 weeks now and have unknowingly been applying some of these rules to my life.


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## Wrench (Mar 21, 2011)

Someone posted it for me when I came here last month and it's made things a lot easier (even though I slip up all the time).

How's it going for you Ilovemywife7, have you stopped thinking about what she's up to and what she's doing all the time?

Someone on here told me that our emotions will go in cycles during this time and you just have to let it happen and cope with them. Yesterday was a bummer day for me and I slipped up by talking about what I'll do for work when we move/seperate. She got pissy and told me it's not her problem anymore and she doesn't care.

I was mad at myself for slipping up for the rest of the day, today it's a fresh start. What elese can you do!


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## BluePink (Apr 2, 2011)

I'm glad to know that slips happen. I am usually very strong but not always and certainly not in this circumstance. Living together is difficult but necessary right now. He has totally made up his mind to leave even though he's broken off communication and relationship with the OW. 

I am hoping that I'm not just deluding myself into thinking he'll want me back and want to stay because I know that's not going to happen. <sigh> I just really truly wish I could wake up from this nightmare that is my reality.


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## Wrench (Mar 21, 2011)

BluePink said:


> I'm glad to know that slips happen. I am usually very strong but not always and certainly not in this circumstance. Living together is difficult but necessary right now. He has totally made up his mind to leave even though he's broken off communication and relationship with the OW.
> 
> I am hoping that I'm not just deluding myself into thinking he'll want me back and want to stay because I know that's not going to happen. <sigh> I just really truly wish I could wake up from this nightmare that is my reality.


Me too, and we're still living together as well. I'm just taking this time to better myself and whatever happens happens. I've had the odd moment where I've thought I'd be better off starting over alone, write those down to read when you're hurting. Works for me


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## BluePink (Apr 2, 2011)

Wrench said:


> Me too, and we're still living together as well. I'm just taking this time to better myself and whatever happens happens. I've had the odd moment where I've thought I'd be better off starting over alone, write those down to read when you're hurting. Works for me



Excellent idea! I will keep a journal from now on with only the positives in it.

I also purchased a black box which I decorated with stickers; fish on the bottom for deep feelings and feeling trapped or hurt, butterflies on the top to signify letting go or setting free. I am going to write down negative thoughts and sad things I would normally say to him on slips of paper, put them in this box, and then when we have our next bonfire, I'm going to burn them all!!


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## BIP (Apr 6, 2011)

I am relatively new to the site as well. I can tell you that I did EVERYTHING wrong after discovering my H's affair 10 weeks ago. Begging, pleading, crying, spying, try to share happy memories, etc. At one point he even TOLD me that I was pushing him away! The 180 has given me something solid to refer to when ever I need it, and I need it often. We have been separated for about 2 weeks, but see each other daily. I have a copy of the 180 on my computer, in my hand bag, and on my iphone. Following this advice is helping me build back my confidence and self-esteem which I need desperately! I can't tell you if it will save my marriage, but it will save my dignity!


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## BluePink (Apr 2, 2011)

BIP! You're awesome!!!


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## tam8145 (Apr 6, 2011)

In addition to the 180, I just finished reading "Love Must Be Tough" by Dr James Dobson. It essentially validates the 180, but provides many other marriage-saving techniques (I'm still hopeful.) 
For example, after reading halfway thru the book, I was inspired to tell my wife "I'm letting you go" and she is "on her own" now. That was 4 days ago. Since then, I have become much more confident and gained alot of strength and courage. 
After a couple of tests from my live-in separated, cheating wife, I feel like I am in total control of the situation. She has agreed to move out. I told her last night that if she files D, I will fight hard for custody and home. I've been very clear that the consequences are her own decision and I intend to make it as uneasy as possible. 
Tonight I plan to tell my cheating wife that I will not pickup kids from school (my normal job) during separation because that will be her responsibility. She will need to make arrangements and perhaps pay a sitter if needed. If she cannot handle the responsibility, she can just opt to leave the kids with me full time.
Anyhow, get the book. I ordered for $10 on Nook for iPhone and read thru it in about 2 days. It's a wonderful help for me.


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## BluePink (Apr 2, 2011)

Thanks for the heads up about the book, Tam. 

I'm having a really hard time tonight. H is out with a "friend" tonight and I texted him once earlier tonight but then texted again when it started getting late...he didn't answer the first one so I sent another and still no answer. I then called and no answer...so I called again. He answered, sounded calm, told me where he was and who he was with (though I 'm not sure I believe him). He said he wouldn't be too much longer but he's still not home and that was a half hour ago.

I'm so disappointed in myself...first that I texted and called. What a desperate twit I must seem to him. My stomach is tied in knots and I wonder how I'm going to deal with it when he actually moves out and I no longer know where he is ever?

Nights where he goes out like this without me are the hardest to deal with. It's no longer my business yet I feel that it is because he's still living in the house with me...why why why is this so hard?


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## BluePink (Apr 2, 2011)

I've had a two-day slip up. First wanting to invite myself with him to an event yesterday and today he said he had to work late and it was almost 6 p.m. by the time I couldn't help it...I started thinking he was lying to me, meeting the OW and my imagination ran wild. 

My son then said to me, "What difference does it make what he's doing anymore? You guys are getting divorced". I had to agree that it didn't matter but that doesn't mean I've quit caring or being hurt by his attitude and behaviors. This is most likely the most difficult thing I will ever go through in my life. 

Tonight I wasn't going to text or call him so I texted a friend instead. Sadly it just wasn't good enough and I texted him several messages in quick succession saying how I felt and that I thought he was lying. He then sent a pic of him at work to my phone and I instantly felt like a jackass. 

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! I am too old for this crapola! I should be enjoying my life now, not having to re-start everything! I know that I can look at this as a positive thing but, right now, tonight, at this time, I simply cannot make myself believe that.


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## BIP (Apr 6, 2011)

BluePink said:


> Tonight I wasn't going to text or call him so I texted a friend instead. Sadly it just wasn't good enough and I texted him several messages in quick succession saying how I felt and that I thought he was lying. He then sent a pic of him at work to my phone and I instantly felt like a jackass.


BluePink, It's so hard to try and train yourself not to call and text the person you have been the closest to! I know! I catch myself 10 times a day. I just want to warn you that when I called/texted while he was "out" it just made him want to stay "out."


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## BIP (Apr 6, 2011)

I don't know how much reading you all have time for, but I'd like to recommend "Should I Stay or Go?" by Lee Raffel. It was recommended by my IC when the word "separation" first came up. My H has scoffed at ALL articles, websites, books I had recommended to him while trying to "fix" him. While in couple's therapy, I pulled this book out of my bag, and read him the first page of Chapter 1, Couples on the Cusp:
"I wish I knew if our marriage was worth saving."
"I wish my spouse would agree to counseling"
"I wish I could separate for a while - maybe that would do me some good."
"I wish my children could be spared this trauma."
"I wish I weren't so undecided - this is the pits."
"I wish I could feel free again without going through an ugly divorce."
"I wish I knew what was normal so I wouldn't feel so crazy."
"I wish I knew whether to stay or go."
"I wish I didn't have to face this question at all."
He looked up and his jaw dropped, and he started to tear up. "That's me," he said. 
So I threw the book at him;-)
He actually read about 30 pages, and said "Okay, let's do that."( I am going to encourage him to finish it.)
Anyway, we have embarked on a "controlled separation" as recommended in the book. The plan allows couples to "separate physically and emotionally, in order to put sanity back into their relationship." It's hard, but it's better than waiting until one of you just walks out and never comes back, especially if you have kids. It's a plan with guidelines, and it's good. It seems to fit well with the 180 philosophy also.


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## BluePink (Apr 2, 2011)

Sounds like a good book for those who haven't made up their minds yet. Sadly, my husband and I went to marriage counseling a few years ago but we quit going too soon...now he's determined that divorce is the only way and he has not waivered from that decision since then.

Makes me really sad but there's nothing I can do about it so I'm trying to live as best as I can "in the moment".


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## BluePink (Apr 2, 2011)

Oh and PS: How the heck do you know to just give up and let go or when to try to work on it despite their not wanting to?? I guess there is no answer to that one! 

I hope everyone has a good Earth Day, Good Friday, and Easter!


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

Hi Wrench, hope youre doing ok 

i still thinking about her alot...although maybe less now...i am ok until i see her and then its hard...yesterday my daughter mentioned that she had gone out with a friend when they were asleep..that set me of wondering again if there is someone else...so i spent the evening torturing myself over it...sigh

she now has stopped wearing her rings completely...she gave me lame excuses each time i asked and so i dont ask anymore..it really annoys me though

i have started being much less chatty though and i finish the conversation as soon as possible...i think she gets annoyed sometimes about it but she is still doing things to keep us apart as much as possible.

she has now told everyone she does not miss me and is enjoying the freedom...which is ironic because its no different to how it was before...

its hard as well as over easter her family have all ignored me and have dropped me like a stone!..its as if ive done something wrong?..i guess they are supporting her but it seems unfair to support the break up of our family, they have known me for a long time and we never had any real issues..they know she is difficult..but i guess i dont know what she has told them

anyway i am thinking of getting a bit tougher and pulling back more, i gave her an easter egg and card but didnt get anything in return...its her birthday soon so i think i will have to not give her anything except a card

otherwise i think i am very slowly getting tougher with each day

i know i would backtrack very easily though..i still love her unfortunatley

anyway, everyone hang in there and i will keep posting as i find it helps


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## Wrench (Mar 21, 2011)

Sounds like you're getting to a better state of mind, slowly of course. 

I don't know if you've tried keeping a journal or not, I started one a week or two ago and it's really helping me. I write down all the crazy thoughts in my head, just exactly how I'm feeling at that moment. Then if I feel weak and want to call her I go read it all and it totally works in calming me down.

We're stuck living together and we have chosen to keep our seperation a secret for now (small town) but I know that me being at peace with myself and our history has helped her open up and talk to me about it without putting up a wall.

The way I look at it we really have no choice but to stay on track with a 180, they want nothing to do with the old us and weather we reconcile or just co-parent our relationship with them has to be totally different to work at all.


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## sadand (Apr 2, 2011)

Like they say in AA, one day at a time. Pat yourself on the back each time you get it right and start over when you can't. Be open to love yourself too. I am filled with regrets, what could I have done differently that might have made it so we never got here, but that doesn't help anyone


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

yea I have been writing it all down now as well, initially for the the same reason that it helped, now sadly its because ive been advised to in case i need future help with access to kids etc if things get messy.

Unfortunately they are beginning to..we argued last night..my daughter mentioned when i had them on saturday that my wife had told her that morning that we had argued and separated and I had moved out for a while. I told her it was no ones fault, that we both loved her etc..she cried a little bit and was asking i I would still be her daddy if mummy married some one else..

then when i took them back home and while i was gettin car seats out they must have said something to wife as she was really angry saying they were blaming her and that we had agreed not to talk about it to them unless we did it together and saying she had not said anything that morning to them. i explained i hadnt said anything bad and what my daughter had said but she didnt beleive me.

Then i asked her why my daughter was saying this to me in first place and where it was all coming from and she admitted she actually told her this three days previously (coincidently when her family were visiting for easter)...so i told her she was the one who had broken the agreement not me.. and then she ordered me out of the house!.

i remained calm and said no I have a right to put my children to bed and went upstairs and she followed and said again that i was making her out to be the bad one and i said i didnt want to talk about it anymore and we didnt speak again.

Its hard as i still dont understand why she is doing it and also why she doing it in such a cruel way to both me and the kids. She told her sister that she didnt care if we got back together as she was much happier now and she doesnt miss me. She never contacts me and is still happily telling everyone that we are separated..i think she is enjoying the attention that it has brought her from family and friends. i think she also is enjoying
punishing me for apparantly giving her such a bad life for all those years!

But as several people have told me there are two people in a relationship, its 50:50 and I shouldnt blame myself for it all, she has to take 50% of the reponsibility. Ive realised now that this is true, its very easy to blame yourself, especially when they say they want to leave for a whole host of reasons that are all your fault...i have looked back and many of the things she accuses me of and i was blaming myself for were not soley my doing, and in several instances were as a direct result of her behaviour. I did make mistakes but so did she and my mistakes were no worse than hers..

So i guess i will just wait and see, and in the meantime i will put everything in place to protect myself and the kids should it all get worse.

Sadly still want her back though if im honest,after all that!


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## Wrench (Mar 21, 2011)

ilovemywife7 said:


> But as several people have told me there are two people in a relationship, its 50:50 and I shouldnt blame myself for it all, she has to take 50% of the reponsibility. Ive realised now that this is true, its very easy to blame yourself, especially when they say they want to leave for a whole host of reasons that are all your fault...i have looked back and many of the things she accuses me of and i was blaming myself for were not soley my doing, and in several instances were as a direct result of her behaviour. I did make mistakes but so did she and my mistakes were no worse than hers..


I get blamed and blame myself too, it's like a habit that we've gotten used to. Total BS!

Sorry to hear about your daughter crying, that's my biggest fear. And probably the reason I'd reconcile if she wanted to as well.


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

yea, thats the hardest part seeing them upset, my son is nearly 4 so he doesnt really understand whats going on but my daughter is nearly 7 and she is well aware of it...she cant understand why its happened though and keeps telling me to apologise...she thinks if we have had an argument it should be as simple as that.

I am worried she will blame me as she will think i dont want to be there so have tried not to say to much about it until yesterday.

truth is though is my wife wont let me see them any more frequently, i asked and she said no..legally she cant stop me but i am trying not to antagonise her, although that doesnt seem to be going well at the moment :scratchhead:

it still amazes me how much your life and future prospects can change in what seems a very short time

i am sticking to the 180 now, it has become much easier since i have become more annoyed about the situation although i am trying not to show it when im there..i just dont make any effort to talk to her and so she has started ignoring me more...not sure if this is whats meant to happen but for now i cant be bothered to make any kind of conversation where not necessary


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## Wrench (Mar 21, 2011)

I've read some stuff on here about setting a precident as far as seeing your kids, I think I'd force her to deal with my demands. It's not her decision, they're your children too.

My 9 yr old has caught on, she's taking it well so far. I also read that kids just want to know that they're loved and protected. They're not as complicated as us "adults"


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

yes thats what ive heard too, im glad youre 9 year old is coping well, i think as long as they feel loved and happy they will adapt to most situations..although i wonder what the long term effects may be...my wife came from divorced parents and she said she never wanted that for us...but now she seems to be doing exactly what her dad did to her mum..

the hardest thing is thinking of them spending more time with another man...thats really hard...losing everything to someone else who can just walk in and take over...still, im hoping that wont happen

im putting of the conversation about access for a bit longer now but i think in a few weeks i will start exercising some of my rights...seeing the kids more and asking her to pay a fair share of the bills and mortgage...that should be a fun conversation


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## Wrench (Mar 21, 2011)

Just be sure she doesn't twist it later saying you didn't want to see them for weeks.

Thinking about them having a "new dad" hurts like hell, I know.

My brothers ex hooked up with a really good guy 10 yrs ago and he has been a great step-dad for his kids, their mother has flaked out again and the new guy is basically co-parenting with my brother!:scratchhead:

You always hear that kids learn how to be in a relationship by watching their parents so I'm trying to be calm and mature through all of this. But there are days I'd love to go Jerry Springer Show on her ass:cussing:


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## ilovemywife7 (Mar 6, 2011)

ha ha ha yes... going jerry springer would be fun...i have imagined doing a similar thing :smthumbup:


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