# HELP ME figure out what's going on



## guitardude (Jan 30, 2013)

I had this posted in the General Discussion section, but maybe this might be a better forum for what's happening to my marriage: Read this: It's good! I really need some advise.


My wife and I have been married 12 years. We have 3 children together; ages 11, 9, and 6. I'm quite a bit older than her; I am 50, she is 34. 
I look good for my age, keep in shape, etc. I am a very loving, affectionate, caring guy; I cook, clean, do the dishes, give her backrubs, buy her turtles (her favorites); just generally try to make her feel special. 


She is the exact opposite. I'll be lucky if I get a kiss from her once a month (unless it's a quick goodbye kiss as she's leaving for work). She's not affectionate at all, but I knew this from before and have learned to live with it. 
That's just how she is. Our sex life is great! We still have sex (up until recently) 2-3 times a week, and she can even orgasm twice once in a while. No complains there.


We've had some hard times in the last 5 months, argueing and such, which I will explain later. A couple of weeks ago I walk in the door, all smiles happy to see her. I try to give her a kiss and she turns her head. I then tried to kiss her again but she just pulled away. 
She's done this before, but everytime when she was busy doing something. This time she was just standing there. 



That hurt me so bad inside, I just shut down. I stopped giving her attention; started acting the way she treats me. She responded by being very terse with me, no more long conversations, even more distant, etc. I finally stopped talking to her; she responded by saying "What, now you don't even want to talk to me?". 3 days later I asked her why she was treating me so badly; that it seemed we were more like roommates, not husband and wife.
I also told her that she needed to see a psychiatrist because of past issues before we were married that have never gone away (she was abused by her stepdad). 

Instead of a positive reaction from her (lets work this out, etc), she totally disengaged herself from me. "We're like roommates, huh?". A couple of days later she said that she needed to figure out why she treats me so bad, that she doesn't trust me anymore, that she needed some time to herself to figure out who she is. She brought up that maybe we should get divorced if she couldn't come to terms with all of this. She basically said "I need to figure out who I am; you need to leave!". 

So here I am 3 days later, staying at a friends house, letting her figure out what she wants to do. She didn't give me a date for me to come back.


HER ISSUES WITH ME

She doesn't trust me anymore - I helped build a house for my Mom, and when she sold it, she gave me $30,000 for the kids education fund (Missouri MOST) and $5000 to help pay for a new roof for the house. I never told her about it, knowing that the money was not going for us. The $5000 I put in our joint savings account, and she checks it online every so often. It's not that I put it under the mattress to hide it, I just didn't think it was a big deal. BTW: she has a checking account in her name only; I got pissed off when a couple of years ago I opened up my own saving account, so I closed it to make her happy.

I save money every month which goes in our safe, and had to take out $1900 to cover a stock trade that went bad. Then she wanted to know exactly how much I spend per month and where the rest of the money was going. I told her every detail; and she's told me many times she isn't interested in investing or how it works.

I order her food for her: She told me that she's tired of me telling the waiter/waitress what she is having; "I have my own mouth, I can order myself!" To me it's just common courtesy for the man to order.

I order her beer for her at the bar: Same as above with same reaction

I walk in front of her, not with her: Many times, definitely guilty of that

"You walk away when I think that you're behind me": Guilty of that too. If I see something I like, I'll mosy off and she'll say, "where did you go, I thought you were behind me"

She stated that she felt like I was like her father, and she wanted some space to figure out who she is. I don't consider myself a controlling person; maybe she does.


HER OTHER ISSUE WITH ME

Like I said, I am a loving,trusting husband who would never do anything intentionally to hurt her. I've made 2 mistakes in our marriage:

1) On my birthday 8 years ago, I went to order a beer at the bar. I went up to the bar and ordered the beer, and stated it was my birthday. The girl standing next to me said "Happy Birthday", gave me a quick (and I mean quick) kiss and walked away. My wife was pissed. She's never let me live that down, saying I was "Sucking Face" with her. Not true.

2) 2 Years ago New Years Eve, we were out with some friends. I barely ever drink any hard liquor, but I got to drinking shots that night for some reason. I don't remember anything after about 2 hours in there. Total blackout. My friend told me that at Midnight, I gave the bartender a kiss on the cheek. My wife then punched me in the face. Like I said, I don't remember any of this; and I certainly will never get that drunk again. She's never let me live that down either.


NOW FOR THE GOOD PART


We've always done everything together, we generally get along great. Like I said, our sex life is great! About a year and a half ago, her friend broke up with her boyfriend and was really depressed. My wife said that she would go out with her to cheer her up. She started going out to the bars fairly frequently while I stayed at home with the kids.

I started getting worried (and I'm not a jealous guy at all, even she'll tell you that), especially after she and her sister went to a party at a guys house who invited then to go after the bars closed and she didn't come home until 4:30 in the morning. She ended up being Facebook friends with him. In her defense, I don't think she ever contacted him.

After about 5 weeks of this, she sits me down one day and says: "Would you mind if I have sex with other guys; It's only sex, it doesn't mean anything". I asked her how she would do this, she said "I'll just get a guys phone number, and when the urge arrises, maybe once a month, I'll go over to his house and F*ck him. No emotional ties whatsoever, it's only sex". I asked her if I could do the same thing; she said "No, you would get too emotional and get attached to the girl". 

Man, that killed me. It was like my heart had been ripped out and stomped on. I never, ever, would have thought that she wanted another guy. She never acted like she wanted one. I cried for 4 days, had to see a psychologist, before she finally realized how much it hurt me. She then said she was just gauging my reaction, she really never wanted anyone else.


I hurt for about 2 months, then got over it. Everything was going alright.


ROUND 2

Part 1:

Last summer in July, we had 3 soccer coaches from England staying at our house for a week. One of the guys was really attractive, and she just swooned over this guy. She tried to change her work schedule to stay home, didn't sleep during the day when she was working night shift, etc. She then took them to the bar one night, I showed up about Midnight just as she was rubbing her rear in some other guys c*ck. 

Man was I dissappointed. What really hurt me was that she payed him more attention in 1 week than I get all year!


She then starting going to the bars again, this time with a couple of local friends. She was going out once to twice a week, coming home late, having fun and dirty dancing.

PART 2:

In late September, she went to a 3 day conference in Columbia, MO with one of her friends. The 2nd night she was there, I hired a private detective to tail her. I called her about 6pm and asked her what she was going to do. She said she was going to go shopping, go out to eat, go back to the Hotel bar for a couple and go to bed. The detective followed them to Kohls and dinner, and she was doing exactly what she told me she was going to do.
I was happy! I trusted my wife, so I called off the detective and told him to go home.

I then called my wife around 9pm because I was going to bed. She said "Not much is going on here, just having a few beers and going to call it a night. I love you". Man, I was happy, she barely ever says "I Love You", so when she does, it means a lot. We talked for about 1/2 an hour and she said "I Love You" again before hanging up.


At 12:30AM the phone rings. It's the detective! I said "What are you doing calling me, I called you off!" He said: "I've been doing this a long time; I know how it ends". Apparently her and her friend had gone downtown and picked up a couple of guys. I found out later that these guys were in fact staying at the same hotel they were, were drunk and needed a ride home. That was verified. 

The detective gave me the play by play: The guy her friend was with went back to his room, while my wife and her friend and this other guy went to my wife's room (she was rooming with her friend, he was rooming with his). He went to the bathroom, and then my wife and him went to his room. I was freaking out. I waited about 10 minutes, the called back to her room.

I wish I could have seen the look on her friends face when I called. I asked to speak to my wife, and she stuttered "She's in the bathroom". "Well, give her the phone!". "I can't, I'll have her call you when she gets out". She then called my wife who calls me back. I made up a fake story about me having a bad dream. She said "Don't worry, I'm in bed and ready to go to sleep; I'll call you tomorrow". 

I waited another 15 minutes, then called her again. I couldn't stand it any longer. I told her there was a detective that had been following her and she was busted. She lied and said there wasn't another guy, he must have had the wrong room. He verified she was indeed with the guy. She hung up on me, then she texted "We didn't have sex". She told me that they were just talking, she wasn't tired yet and wanted to stay up a little bit longer. 

Needless to say I wasn't very happy. When she came home the next day, we had a big fight, but at the end, we made up. I wanted to believe she was telling the truth.


PART 3:

I was bummed out for about a month, but got over it. One halloween night, we got dressed up, went dancing and had an absolutely awesome time. It was so good, I told her it reminded me of when we were dating. Hadn't had that much fun in years! About a week later she bought a card and told me how special I was and that she loved me. She had never done this in our entire marriage, so I felt great!!!

Then in December we went out for her birthday and were having a good time. She asked if she could dance with other guys. I said no problem; like I said, I'm not a jealous guy. We were both on the dance floor, and she started dancing with this one guy. Next thing I know, she had her hands all over the guys *ss and was feeling him up on the dance floor. I was dissappointed. She told me later that's how she always has danced. She just likes dirty dancing and it doesn't mean anything.


With all this happening within 4 months, I started having good and bad days. She couldn't understand why I was acting like this. If I were to do the same thing she does, we'd be divorced. There's a huge double standard in our relationship. 

Example: We were at Walmart a couple of weeks ago and I was in the checkout line. She snuck off because the person behind the register was a girl. We struck up a conversation about the weather and work. She was fat and pregnant, married, definitely not attractive. My wife comes up from behind and says "Didn't know I was behind you, did you". She gave me a dirty look and walked away. 

A week later, we were shopping again. I asked the checkout girl if I could borrow the Aldi's ad to comp. All I said was' "Can I borrow the Aldi's ad, I'll bring it right back". My wife got pissed and told me to get my own cart. I had had enough. I walked off, got in the car, and went home. I couldn't take it anymore, She called and I picked her up. That was the beginning of where this story started. 


I don't know what to do. I love my wife to death, she means the world to me. What's going on here? Any advice?


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

What's going on? You know damn well. It's simple.

She's cheating. You're enabling and rug sweeping. 

It WILL continue until you learn to accept it as a fact of life or you change things. She IS NOT inclined to change at all.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

Man, know THIS. There's life after fifty and it doesn't have to be with a cheater. This is who you chose to live with and she's not going to change. If you dump her, the misery you feel after the split won't be nearly as bad as that which you are experiencing now.
You will NEVER be able to trust her until the time comes that it doesn't matter to you if she's to be trusted.


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## raging_pain (Dec 8, 2012)

Holy shiat buddy... That is some messed up shiat.

She punched you in the face?

She asked to have sex with other people, but denied you the same?


You aren't kidding about the double standard. The shiat listed above are deal-breakers, plain and simple. She's essentially been using you for your resources, and the occasional fark.

Stop deluding yourself. You know you're doing it, and everyone that's read your post knows you're doing it.

Frankly, I'm amazed you didn't smack the shiat out of her after she hit you. I can't say I would have done the same.

She's been cheating the whole time. She is only using you. Get rid of her.

Here it is in caps, because I understand how you are thinking now: 

SHE IS ONLY USING YOU

GET RID OF HER


Grow some farking balls man. Sorry for being harsh about it, but you have tolerated shiat that no man should tolerate.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

This thread actually made me so depressed I couldn't even enjoy the music on Pandora and had to turn it off.

My friend, you need to stop being a doormat. Because your wife is walking all over you and grinding the mud off her heels on your face.

She is blatantly disrespecting you in the worst possible ways and you're basically just allowing it. And talk about hypocrisy and double standards.

Besides kids (and I personally NEVER think kids are enough of a reason to stay in a ****ty marriage. Ever. But that's just me) why are you still married to her?


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## guitardude (Jan 30, 2013)

Because the marriage is not totally F*cked up. Before we had our major fallout, she was actually really good to me. I just kept on having backflashes and would get bummed out which would cause major friction. I would be fine for a couple of weeks and we would be great together. Then something would trigger the past events and we would get in arguements. I would snap out of it, and we would be fine again. That being said, I don't know (or maybe I don't want to know) if she would ever hurt me again. I talked to a mutual friend she goes out to the bars with, and she told me that even though she likes dirty dancing, she has never taken a guys phone number or become flirty with a guy (at least not after the hotel incident). I trust her friend; she knows my wife's faults. 
My wife said "It's just a phase I went through". She never said she was sorry, though. I told her "You went through a phase last summer, then this summer. What about next year and the year after". She didn't answer that question.


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

Lookup all the info you possibly can on "cake eating". 

Now.

Sorry you are here.

Prepare for hell.


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## martyc47 (Oct 20, 2011)

Is this real life?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

So, her wingman at bars - says "umm yeah, it's true your wife rubs her breasts on other guys chests, and her butt on their erections - but dude, these are honorable men! They're only there because they are afficiondos of interpretive dance. They would NEVER even dream of immoral acts with your wife".

Ohhh, um that "phase" your wife is going through is also known as "cheating" in most comitted relationships. But since she doesn't have one of those, I guess it's really just a phase.


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## martyc47 (Oct 20, 2011)

guitardude said:


> Because the marriage is not totally F*cked up. Before we had our major fallout, she was actually really good to me.


Not according to your post.
Your post AFTER the current situation just reads like an endless lists of previous cheating episodes that you condoned, rewarded, or even enabled. Followed by you crying for months and then.. Doing nothing.
Your marriage is not just a snapshot in time. All these things happen and set a pattern of behavior. You have kids, right? As a parent do you think if you treat your 11 year old one way the first ten years and change in year eleven that nothing for. The previous ten years contributed to the development of your child and your relationship?
Your wife cheats... And then you give her backrubs while she avoids touching you. Your wife is in all kinds of obviously inappropriate situations over and over and she is taught she can cheat and you will cry and massage her. Multiple guys are staying at your house to party with your wife. She's partying up as a single lady. Sometimes when a guy says he's not the jealous type and doesn't care if his wife is partying with guys it really gives the message that he doesn't mind sharing his wife. When your wife tells you she wants to bang other guys, crying about it is not going to help you. Guys who really have no reason to get jealous about other guys know they don't have to worry about because their wives won't dare do it unless they want to be shown the door.

I wouldn't even know where to start. Your wife had been cheating for years and you've shown her its cool. Your little mistakes are just guilt trips. Stop doing the dishes. Do you pre-treat the *** stains on her clothes, too?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

My guess is she's been cheating all along. When she told you she was going to start banging other guys, she'd already been doing it, but she wanted to not have to sneak around. She was devaluing you in her mind since you had failed to pick up on her constant sexual adventures. She probably figured you ought to already know at some level. It's a very standard cheating female belief, but they are usually a lot more discreet than your wife was.

DNA the kids and make her sit a polygraph so you can find out just how deep and how far back the rot goes. Don't believe a word her wingwoman tells you. She's implicated too; is that beotch married? 

On the other hand, you seem to be okay with an open marriage for her, so why not one for you? That's why she always gets mad when women look your way. She knows what she's been doing since day one and doesn't want you to do it to her.

Your wife is 34, so she's at libido max and she's addicted to strange c0ck. It doesn't look good.

You in a band? If not get in one. It's payback time.


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## guitardude (Jan 30, 2013)

Thanks for the replies, guys. But I want to fix my marriage, not end it. We have 3 kids and it would absolutely kill them if we got divorced.


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## martyc47 (Oct 20, 2011)

guitardude said:


> Thanks for the replies, guys. But I want to fix my marriage, not end it. We have 3 kids and it would absolutely kill them if we got divorced.


This seems to be a common theme here today. Rug sweeping is not fixing things. If the marriage has ended it's because she chose to not treat it as a marriage and you were fine with that. Being a doormat and letting your wife bang other guys while you wait on her does not save a marriage. If you wanted to keep your marriage try having one- don't let your wife eat cake and have groups of men over for sleep overs or stay in hotels with *****s.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

guitardude said:


> Thanks for the replies, guys. But I want to fix my marriage, not end it. We have 3 kids and it would absolutely kill them if we got divorced.


Well, I imagine she's open to swinging. At least you could even the score, but that only works if you swing together. How does that sound?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

You cannot fix this by yourself. I see you keep posting this in different sections of the forum. You are hoping that there is someone who is going to pat you on the head and reassure you that the truth you already know isnt really true. You are in denial as to your wife's true nature. You have already taught her that its okay to treat you like crap by cheating on you, because you give her NO consequences! Unless you lay down the law here, and are willing to follow through by ending things if she doesnt stop her behavior, then you might as well just suck it up and stop complaining.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

guitardude said:


> We have 3 kids and it would absolutely kill them if we got divorced.



I have yet to hear of a kid who has died from their parents getting divorced.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Lay down the law. 
See a lawyer. Get your ducks lined up.

Have her served.
If she shrugs and/or is visibly relieved, then proceed bc it was NEVER going to improve. 

BUT 

If SHE wants to save the marriage then you set your boundaries. You seem to not know what type of marriage you want. I have a feeling you are amenable to an open marriage. Whatever the case, set your boundaries. Insist on a full medical and psych evaluation for her - you could benefit from one youself. 

Before you do any of this consider the things you will/will not accept:
Bar hopping
Dirty dancing
Inappropriate cybering
Etc


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## guitardude (Jan 30, 2013)

Yep, you're absolutely right. Thanks for all your help, really appreciate the reality check. I will talk to her later on today.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Um, did you really believe that they were just talking in the hotel. Do you think drunks adults do that while they are alone in an hotel room? Do you also think that babies are brought by storks.

Open your eyes, man.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

All that writing is about your wife and you. Not much about your kids, so it not really about the kids being heart broken. It's about you finding excuses to hang on to a woman that has no respect for you.
She was in a room with TWO guys and you believed her nothing was happening.

Those old saying sure are true. "Nothing like an,,,,,",

Look, just let her do what she wants that way you won't have to wonder.


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

She is a MANIPULATOR! She cheats, she knows it and keeps putting you on the defensive because occasionally you have talked to women. You then try to make it up to her and allow for her to do disrespectful things to you because you want to make her happy.

A great Defense is a good Offense.

She has your number and knows it.

Has she cheated? Yes, confirmed by a Detective.

What did you do "RugSweep"

The only way you may have a chance to save this marriage is if you make the decision you are willing to lose it and Divorce her.

Until you make that decision, all advise to you on this matter will not help you.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

guitardude said:


> A couple of days later she said that she needed to figure out why she treats me so bad, that she doesn't trust me anymore, that she needed some time to herself to figure out who she is. She brought up that maybe we should get divorced if she couldn't come to terms with all of this. She basically said "I need to figure out who I am; you need to leave!".
> 
> So here I am 3 days later, staying at a friends house, letting her figure out what she wants to do. She didn't give me a date for me to come back.


 She cheats on you with other men, and when you complain she tells you that "you need to leave". Amazingly you actually leave. It is not that she does not trust you. It is that she does not respect you. Exactly when do you stop letting her cheat? Exactly when do you stand up for yourself? Yes you are not perfect, but no one is, especially her. Right now you are all bark and no bite, so she has no reason to take you seriously.

Move back today. File for divorce and mean it. Divorce takes time so you can always stop it if she makes the effort to try to save it and agrees to start acting like your wife. Hold on to your money and stop telling her everything. She has lost her moral compass and does not have your best interest at heart, so stop letting her dictate the terms of your relationship.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

guitardude said:


> Yep, you're absolutely right. Thanks for all your help, really appreciate the reality check. I will talk to her later on today.


What is there left to talk about?


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

You left???? You want to save the marriage??? AYFKM?????????

She is a serial cheat. This marriage is not savable unless you go to an open marriage or you are OK with a hotwife and like being a cuckold. END OF STORY. The violence thing is just icing on the cake.

Guitardude. Guys in bands pull poon like noones business. If you decide to go open... do it.

You are pure 100% beta which is odd for a guitar player. (heck in alphagameplan you sound like a low delta which is again odd for a guitar player) Learn the alpha beta thing. No you don't have to be 100% alpha to keep a woman. Unfortunately 100% betas often can't keep a woman. Who fits this profile? Look in the mirror.

Reread what Mach said. Once again he is spot on.

You have 3 choices.
1) Open
2) Hotwife and you are cuckold
3) Divorce

If you decide to stay cuckold. Sorry for the bluntness but GIVE ME YOUR MANCARD.

Funny things is you will find in the end. Those of us who are hardest on you are usually the most accurate.


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## guitardude (Jan 30, 2013)

Damn that is harsh. F*ck, I don't want to get divorced.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

guitardude said:


> Damn that is harsh. F*ck, I don't want to get divorced.


Well, she obviously doesn't want to be married... to you, at least for now. Do you want to continue living in this one-sided marriage?


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

guitardude said:


> Damn that is harsh. F*ck, I don't want to get divorced.


I don't understand how it's any worse than staying in the marriage you currently have. Because I seriously doubt your wife is going to change, wants to, or even feels she should.

Honestly I think if you got her out of your life to a reasonable degree you'd find yourself much happier.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

guitardude said:


> Damn that is harsh. F*ck, I don't want to get divorced.


Be a man or be her fool. 

Take your pick.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

guitardude said:


> Damn that is harsh. F*ck, I don't want to get divorced.


We don't do pansy here. By all means I have only 100+ posts. Take the advice of those with 1000+. We are saying the same thing. SNAP OUT OF IT!!!!

Harsh? It is reality. Your choices are:
1) Open
2) You are a cuckold
3) Divorce

Note NOWHERE in my list is a standard reconciliation. SHE IS NOT GIVING UP OTHER PEEN!!!!!! If you think you are going to get a standard reconciliation you are fooling yourself. If you try a standard reconciliation you are in fact signing up for #2 in which case Ill get the address of all4her because I think we can give a mancard back to him.

We are harsh because we are trying to get you to see reality. READ the 9999999999 posts that go to the effect "she cheated on me 3 times with 3 guys and we reconciled... except I found out a year later she screwed 4 more guys. She just got better at hiding it."

No divorce. Fine, go open and join a band. If you are in a band, a 5 or better on a 5 centered 10 scale and smell OK you might just outpull your wife on even younger hotter sex partners. And that my friend is hard to do since a median woman can go to any club and have 3 offers of sex with decent looking men by the end of the night. A median male would have to work it prolly about 3 nights for one offer.

sigh edit 999: You can apparently afford a PI. It wont take long to see the true extent.


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

guitardude said:


> If I were to do the same thing she does, we'd be divorced. There's a huge double standard in our relationship.


That's because she thinks you need the M more than her and she is using that to her advantage. The person that needs the relationship the least, controls it. 

I dated a girl like her once; I couldn’t even look in the direction of another girl without getting my head bitten off. Little did I know she was screwing anything that moved when I wasn’t looking.

You W is disrespecting you because you let her. The only way to save this is to try to end it in order to show her you have some self-respect. She thinks you are weak so she will push and push until you break. 

That being said she is a serial cheater (at least has all the signs of one) which means she’ll probably cheat on you for as long as you stay married to her. Ironically, the only way to make her stop cheating would be to divorce her. The minute you open yourself to R she will believe she has “won” which makes her think she can get away with it again later. 

TL;DR You’re likely screwed if you R


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Guitarman. Read Raging Pain's entire thread "Betrayed like so many here" and pay EXTRA SPECIAL to this update reply.

1) Go to the bathroom
2) Look in the mirror
3) Tell yourself you deserve better.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/62640-betrayed-like-so-many-here-13.html#post1403436

And Raging. YOU ARE A MINOR DIETY. That post should be stickied!!!!!!!!! LOL just made your post my signature. BEST EVER!


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## raging_pain (Dec 8, 2012)

:lol: i only hope others can take inspiration from the shiite i've gone through... the stories are always the same, but how we choose to deal with it is entirely within our control.

don't hesitate
don't worry
don't second-guess yourself

if you do those things, you will be OK


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

No body here wants a divorce but sometimes the wayward spouse make the choice for us.
In my case my wife didn't want a divorce and with that said she stopped the GNO, lost the toxic friends, changed her phone# went to counseling and learned the tools to affair proof the marriage, and most importantly is face her issues that caused her to make unhealthy choices.

In other case the waywards is asking for the divorce through there actions. And the wayward stays in contact with TF, continues the GNO's and blames other for the plight.

You can't control your wife but you can control what you will tolorate and what you want out of a relationship.

This isn't about you fixing your chicks adultous ways or fixing this marriage, you can't fix that). This about your chick fixing her self to either keep her marriage or not.

So work on your self for your self. That one thing you can fix and thats you. It will be up to your WW to change and reap the reward of a new you or take her chances with someone else. 

You now have to look out for you and your kids, their mother is slipping away and sometime even the consequences she is about to face will not bring her out of her fog.


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## guitardude (Jan 30, 2013)

Wow Raging, what a story.

I talked to her earlier today. Told her I'm not leaving the house, how little respect she had for me, etc. Told her " Are you ready to get a divorce, cause I am". She said she doesn't want a divorce. She also said that she has no feelings for me anymore. All the little things that I have done wrong in the past has finally put her over the edge. 

1. She's not dependent on me for money. She makes good money herself.

2. Until I have PHYSICAL proof, I can't prove that she has ever cheated on me. The signs are there, but I don't have physical proof. The closest I've gotten was the hotel incident, but I screwed up and called her before anything could happen because I was so distraught. I should have let it go, then had the PI pretend he was hotel security and ask to check if everything was OK. Then I would have had physical proof.

3. Why is it that in these forums, when a spouse gets caught having an affair, the consensus is that it can be fixed with a lot of hard work, while my situation is a lost cause?

4. Since this is a mostly guys forum, what's the difference between what she's doing on the dance floor and guys going out to the Tittie Bars and having a little fun? Not that I've done that without my wife, just wondering how that compares.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Your wife is a seriel cheater and is broken, her daddy issues are a big part of this.

Keep raising your attraction level and work out and stay positive, her unhealthy behavior has nothing to do with you.

You can't fix her, but she can fix her self then it will be up to here to fix this marriage. Get it? See the difference between you trying to fix something you have no control over?

Sorry brother but picking up strang is about as common to her as the dirty dancing....all of it comes down to the control she tryies to have over men (due to her past) she already has control over you now she wants more men to control. In fact her past cleary defines her exceptence for bad things. In her mind she diserves bad thing and will continue to self destruct good things cuz in her mind she doesn't diserve good things.

Just like my wife, your has problems and until she realizes that she infact does diserve good things then she will continue.

Look at her behavior, she will continue to but her self in unhealthy sitchs and sabatoge good things.

In her mind what she is doing to men and the control she thinks she has over them is in direct relationship to the control she lost with her stepfateher.With that she will continue to sabatoge good things.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Interesting questions:
1-So... Um... Yeah?

2-Okay, why do you need physical proof? No-fault divorce?

3-Her disrespect and resentment towards you is through the roof. Multiple affair attempts and affairs. Asking you for a one sided open marriage.

4-Well, after going to a tittie bar, generally the man doesn't ask for an open marriage. And he doesn't f*ck the strippers.

Um, she has no feelings for you... But she doesn't want to divorce? So roomies? Friends with benefits but not exactly friends?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I stopped going to strip clubs to affair proof my marriage, my wife stopped going to clubs to affair proof her marriage.

In your case you old lady is one big cake eater?

She has control over you, she is moving on to the next guy and the next guy and will continue to move on to control strang men due to her past.

Her past brother her past, until its addressed she will continue to live this unhealthy life...and I told you why....I was married to one too.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I went 13 years with the crap you are living with now, its just a matter of time before enough is enough. Its a shame!!!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Your sitch is not a lost cause but when she gets served divorcepapers she might turn a corner and see how serious you are.

Dude she know you aren't going anywere her marriage of convienence is perfect for her, she has her supplimental income from you, her baby sitter, her bellywarmer when she is home.

She has it made and you sit there in your emotional torture just waiting for it to get so bad that you catch an STD, raise some other guys kid when she gets banged up and all the while enable her to continue her adultorus life style. ....been there done that!!!!!


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

guitardude said:


> I want to believe her, because she insisted she hasn't cheated on me. She said "believe me, I have had plenty of oppertunities to cheat on you, and I haven't. I just like having a good time". In her defense, she has always dirty danced, ever since I met her.


I want to retire. How would you like to buy my toll bridge and make millions collecting tolls over the East River? Believe me, you'll make plenty of money. I really think you are the right guy to buy this business.



guitardude said:


> The sad part of it now is, she said she has no feelings for me at all anymore.


Too much fluid bonding with too many guys over the years.



guitardude said:


> All of this little stuff that I've done wrong over the years and the way I've reacted to everything going on lately has taken a toll on her, and she's given up.


Nope. She knows you're closing in on getting hard proof of her behavior now that you've started to awaken from your Rip Van Winkle snoozing. She'd rather not be exposed (even though the private d!ck has already done it), so "let's end it, now."



guitardude said:


> She said she doesn't care anymore. "Go out and *find a good woman, you deserve better*; I obviously can't give you what you want".


This is tantamount to a confession. She's admitting she doesn't measure up without admitting anything.




guitardude said:


> I feel bad for our marriage. We had a strong, great marriage before, and it's fallen apart in the last 5 months.


No. Things just started getting more obvious to the point where you couldn't be gaslighted any more. You talking to like this shows her the game is up.



guitardude said:


> She says she has felt this way for a couple of years. I would have never known, because she never told me. I thought things were fine.


She's full of it.


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

walkonmars said:


> They're only there because they are afficiondos of interpretive dance.


:lol:

Sorry to read this. She was most certainly banging that guy at the hotel. She sounds really mean. Wayward wives. UGH.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

guitardude said:


> Wow Raging, what a story.
> 
> I talked to her earlier today. Told her I'm not leaving the house, how little respect she had for me, etc. Told her " Are you ready to get a divorce, cause I am". She said she doesn't want a divorce. She also said that she has no feelings for me anymore. All the little things that I have done wrong in the past has finally put her over the edge.
> 
> ...


So, let me get this straight. She tells you she doesnt want a divorce, yet has no feelings for you, so is essentially telling you that its okay in her eyes to sentence YOU to a life of misery forever? THEN, she blames YOU for "all the little things YOU have done to send her over the edge"? And this is AFTER she had previously come to you flat out telling you that she wants to be able to fvck other men?? 

There is only hope for you here if she is willing to do the heavy lifting for reconciliation. She only sounds remorseful that you are onto her, so you need to be realistic about her doing so. You deserve SO MUCH BETTER than this. You need to make this YOUR way, or the highway.


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## DevastatedDad (Oct 2, 2012)

Man, this is rough. 

My 2 cents. I suspect this woman has cheated on you. A LOT.
I don't know how to word it but that thing where you are doing the bad thing but out of guilt or whatever you accuse everyone else of doing the bad thing. I bet she has been cheating for years.

From one guitar dude to another. It is time to start collecting evidence. Actually it is time to leave her. You love her to death but I am afraid she does not love you. This woman is poison.

Sorry man.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

She is no were near R...

She has it made why should she change?

Oh wait mabye if you started getting dressed up, work out and get cleaned up, and go out at night she might think you are seeing someone else...that might make her turn a corner.

In her mind your attraction level is so low in her eyes she think you can;t find anything better....prove her wrong.

Not suggesting a revenge affair but the perception of one...HEHEHE.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

DevastatedDad said:


> Man, this is rough.
> 
> My 2 cents. I suspect this woman has cheated on you. A LOT.
> I don't know how to word it but that thing where you are doing the bad thing but out of guilt or whatever you accuse everyone else of doing the bad thing. I bet she has been cheating for years.
> ...


I'm starting to think it may be time to DNA the kids. This could have been going on for a long time jmo.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

the guy said:


> She is now were near R...
> 
> She has it made why should she change?
> 
> ...


Yep- Ah honey you'll have to watch the kids tonight I'm going out, later.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I've been married to this kind of women for 23 years, 13 years of man after man of loveless sex. I know the type.

In this case this isn't about a ex boy friend or a specific AP, it about a unhealthy life style that was ingrained years ago by her stepdad.

I totaly believe she can pull this " sex with other men with out emotion" my did for years.

Get a lawyer and file, she will have the time it takes to finalize the divorce to turn a corner.

What is the waiting period in your state, between the filing for divorce and the finalizing the divorce?


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

the guy said:


> Your wife is a seriel cheater and is broken, her daddy issues are a big part of this.
> 
> Keep raising your attraction level and work out and stay positive, her unhealthy behavior has nothing to do with you.
> 
> ...


the guy is a smart...guy. That's what went down with my WW. Abused and abandoned by her dad at 5. Out of the blue he contacts her on her 34th birthday. Downward spiral ensues. She goes on self destruct and sabotages herself and our marriage. 

Women with daddy issues are some of the most ****ed up people around. 

But dude - you're a doormat. And women DO NOT respect doormats. You can't force the marriage. You need to 180 this ****ed up woman. 

I am a guitar player too. The world is at your fingertips (assuming you are any good). Being on stage and and tearing it up is catnip for women. DO the 180, get out there and get her attention. If she really wants you, SHE has to do the hard work and change. If not, **** it. You can't make her love you.


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

DevastatedDad said:


> Man, this is rough.
> 
> My 2 cents. I suspect this woman has cheated on you. A LOT.
> I don't know how to word it but that thing where you are doing the bad thing but out of guilt or whatever you accuse everyone else of doing the bad thing. I bet she has been cheating for years.
> ...


Three betrayed axemen in one thread. Where's our ****ing rhythm section?


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

guitardude said:


> 1. She's not dependent on me for money. She makes good money herself.
> 
> 2. Until I have PHYSICAL proof, I can't prove that she has ever cheated on me. The signs are there, but I don't have physical proof. The closest I've gotten was the hotel incident, but I screwed up and called her before anything could happen because I was so distraught. I should have let it go, then had the PI pretend he was hotel security and ask to check if everything was OK. Then I would have had physical proof.
> 
> ...


1. Good. Makes it easier for you to leave.

2. Why do you need physical proof? And even if you had physical proof what would you do about it? I seriously doubt your wife would care one way or the other. And I'm not saying this to be an @ss but going on how you seem to have handled yourself and your marriage I wouldn't expect you to do much about it anyway. I honestly think you "needing proof" is an excuse for you to stick around and keep doing what you've been doing. Which is basically nothing and dragging out a crappy situation. Aka "Limbo"

3. Your situation is most likely a lost cause because it doesn't sound like your wife stepped out of her marriage to have a short term affair that you busted up in the right way. 

She sounds like a serial cheater with personality and daddy issues who is most likely stuck in her ways. She doesn't respect you, and you don't seem to have much respect for yourself. Plus you've been letting her get away with that type of behavior for far too long with no action on your part. The longer that type of behavior goes on, the harder it is to break the WS out of it period.

In order to save your marriage, you have to be willing to lose it. In order to get your parter to respect you, you have to show that you're deserving of respect. In order to have control in your marriage, you have to be the one to take control. From what I can tell you are not and have done none of these things.

You sound like you want to hold onto a marriage for dear life where you get absolutely no respect and that you aren't willing to lose. Despite the fact your wife appears to treat you like an annoying roommate. You sound like you'd do damn near anything to keep your marriage, even though you're not taking any of the steps you would need to do to even possibly save your marriage.

4. There's a difference between having a little fun and blatantly disrespecting your spouse. A guy who goes into a tittie bar is not going to go around getting lap dances and grabbing boobies while his wife is sitting there watching. And I imagine most wives wouldn't want their man going to a strip club to begin with, or if they do, not hearing about it. Your wife doesn't seem give a **** what you know or think. And she certainly doesn't seem to expect you to do anything about it. Is she wrong?


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## DevastatedDad (Oct 2, 2012)

The-Deceived said:


> Three betrayed axemen in one thread. Where's our ****ing rhythm section?


We can start a metal band called "The Betrayed"


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Its been my experience that the longer the behavior continues the darker it gets and in a dozen years one is more likely to have enought. Especially when you get into a strang guys car and the interior is cover in plastic.

The question here is does OP want to go through what I went through or have a healthy relationship with either his changed healthier wife or let her go and find some one else?

Until his WW shows respect for her self how can she ever show respect to her husband.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

guitardude said:


> Told her " Are you ready to get a divorce, cause I am". She said she doesn't want a divorce. She also said that she has no feelings for me anymore. All the little things that I have done wrong in the past has finally put her over the edge.


 After telling her "Are you ready to get a divorce, cause I am", she says that she does not want a divorce, but makes no promise to meet any of your demands and in fact goes on the attack and says that she does not have any feeling for you anymore. And what do you then do? Nothing. Like I said before, you are all bark and no bite. BTW, her telling you that she has no feelings for you is cheater speak for you are not meeting my emotinal needs so I have a right to get them met elsewhere; in fact she already told that to you directly to your face when she said that she wanted to sleep with other men.



guitardude said:


> All the little things that I have done wrong in the past has finally put her over the edge.


 Cheaters always focus on the little things that you do wrong because they do not have big things to focus on to justify their cheating. You are human and thus you are not perfect, yet as a cheater she will try to hold you to a standard of perfection that she does not hold herself to because she wants you to fail to falsely rationalize her cheating. Stop buying into this. She will continue to say this because you let her. Tell her she either accepts you even with your small human imperfection or she does not. Tell that you will no longer hear about the small things until she address the big things that she is doing that is disrespectful to you as a man and as her husband.

And wow, she is cheating and disrespecting you and she has the nerve to tell you that she is over the edge. Talk about kicking you in the ars and showing you who is in control. You cannot wimp yourself out of this, stand up to her.



guitardude said:


> Until I have PHYSICAL proof, I can't prove that she has ever cheated on me. The signs are there, but I don't have physical proof. The closest I've gotten was the hotel incident, but I screwed up and called her before anything could happen because I was so distraught. I should have let it go, then had the PI pretend he was hotel security and ask to check if everything was OK. Then I would have had physical proof.


 You have enough proof. She was in another man's hotel room late at night and lied to you about it. What more do you need? The truth is that 80% of all affairs go undetected at all. When detected, very rarely do they have more proof that what you have now. You know why she was in that room, the PI knows why, the other man knows why, and so does your wife. Just because you stopped her before she did it does not change the fact that she was there to cheat with the other man. They do not let people off the hook for attempted murder just because they did not succeed, and you should not let her off the hook for attempting to sleep with the other man.


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

DevastatedDad said:


> We can start a metal band called "The Betrayed"


We'll all play baritones tuned down to B.


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## JMGrey (Dec 19, 2012)

The-Deceived said:


> Three betrayed axemen in one thread. Where's our ****ing rhythm section?


No one wants to be a drummer. They usually end up contracting Hep or drinking themselves to death, and are usually ignored except by other percussionists. Of course the real death-trap is being the vocalist. I found one list of dead rock stars where drummer and guitarist were running about even (approximately 60 or so); for singers? Over 120.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

The-Deceived said:


> Three betrayed axemen in one thread. Where's our ****ing rhythm section?


Maybe I can play the tameporine, or the rattle kind of thing you shack.


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

JMGrey said:


> No one wants to be a drummer. They usually end up contracting Hep or drinking themselves to death.


Yes, but apparently their wives don't ***** around on them. The drummer gets the last laugh?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I think.... in fact I know we are threadjacking


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

the guy said:


> Maybe I can play the tameporine, or the rattle kind of thing you shack.


I see you more as a triangle kind of guy.


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

the guy said:


> I think.... in fact I know we are threadjacking


We are. Sorry guitardude.


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## DevastatedDad (Oct 2, 2012)

JMGrey said:


> No one wants to be a drummer. They usually end up contracting Hep or drinking themselves to death.


Yup. Drummers tendto be a$$holes.
Sorry drummers.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

The only chance in hell that she didn't sleep with that strang in the hotel is if the call ruined the mood!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

The-Deceived said:


> I see you more as a triangle kind of guy.


:lol::lol::rofl::lol:


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## raging_pain (Dec 8, 2012)

The-Deceived said:


> Three betrayed axemen in one thread. Where's our ****ing rhythm section?


*cough* bass player, reporting in :lol:


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

the moody blues i'am just a singer in a rock and roll band.wmv - YouTube


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## raging_pain (Dec 8, 2012)

guitardude said:


> Wow Raging, what a story.
> 
> I talked to her earlier today. Told her I'm not leaving the house, how little respect she had for me, etc. Told her " Are you ready to get a divorce, cause I am". She said she doesn't want a divorce.


perfect example of manipulation. she is calling your bluff, but hedging her bet by stating that she "doesn't want one"



> 3. Why is it that in these forums, when a spouse gets caught having an affair, the consensus is that it can be fixed with a lot of hard work, while my situation is a lost cause?


actually i've seen quite the opposite. most of the stories on here end up in divorce, because the WS is so far gone. That doesn't mean you should rule out the hard-work-fix-it option, but if both you and your WS aren't jumping in to that option immediately, then there's only one alternative. that is where you are now.



> 4. Since this is a mostly guys forum, what's the difference between what she's doing on the dance floor and guys going out to the Tittie Bars and having a little fun? Not that I've done that without my wife, just wondering how that compares.


deep down, you already know the answer to this.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

You are going to have to find the strength and resolve to end the marriage in order to save it.


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## ubercoolpanda (Sep 11, 2012)

It's as if you don't want to believe your wife is cheating, which is completely understandable at first. But THIS?! She's got you wrapped around her little finger, she doesn't care about you at all and is only with you for security. I know it's harsh but it's true. I don't know your wife at all but I can guarantee you 100% that she has cheated. Nobody randomly asks their spouse if they can sleep around!! Unless they're already doing it or thinking about it. 

Get her to take a lie detector, maybe then reality will hit you. 

And stop being a doormat! Good luck!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## guitardude (Jan 30, 2013)

Thanks for the great advice, guys. I really really appreciate it. One more thing to point out; I don't know if this will change any opinions, but she only went out in 2 instances, the previous 10 years we were always together. I was a stay at home dad for a while, and she didn't mind that at all. I could have stayed one had I wanted. She has never come home late from work, never. 

1) For about 5 weeks 2 summers ago. He friend at work moved away and after that, she stayed home and didn't go out anymore. I know that for a fact. We have 3 smaller children and there's no way that she would go out and leave them at home alone. She is a great mom, her kids mean the world to her.

2) Last summer, she went out for a period of about 5 weeks with a couple of new friends. After the hotel incident happened, she has never gone out without me.


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## ubercoolpanda (Sep 11, 2012)

Who are you trying to convince? Stop rug sweeping! Everything being said here is for YOU, nobody else! If you want to continue living a lie then please go ahead, good luck with whatever you choose.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

guitardude said:


> Thanks for the great advice, guys. I really really appreciate it. One more thing to point out; I don't know if this will change any opinions, but she only went out in 2 instances, the previous 10 years we were always together. I was a stay at home dad for a while, and she didn't mind that at all. I could have stayed one had I wanted. She has never come home late from work, never.
> 
> 1) For about 5 weeks 2 summers ago. He friend at work moved away and after that, she stayed home and didn't go out anymore. I know that for a fact. We have 3 smaller children and there's no way that she would go out and leave them at home alone. She is a great mom, her kids mean the world to her.
> 
> 2) Last summer, she went out for a period of about 5 weeks with a couple of new friends. After the hotel incident happened, she has never gone out without me.


You only have to steal once to be a thief. You only have to cheat once to be a cheater. 

Well actually...if you think about it....she did steal your happiness and manhood, so she's a thief too.


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## DevastatedDad (Oct 2, 2012)

I am not trying to be mean but it almost sounds like it would be easier for you to convince yourself to be okay with her cheating than standing up for yourself and doing something about it. I feel like you are not far from just turning a blind eye and accepting it because you are scared to be without her.

I PMd you ways to find out definitively. It is your decision to get the answers or just let her do her thing.

I'd wear a rubber dude. OM most likely isn't.


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

GuitarDude, nobody here can help you if you refuse to listen and learn and stop rug sweeping. You have been given solid advice, but only you can choose whether or not to follow it.

IMO, you simply are married to a much younger, serial cheating wife, and it hurts so bad right now that you'll find any excuse to try to just make it all go away. 

Do you really want your kids to grow up seeing their father being a disrespected cuckold ?


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Guitar, it is not that we WANT you to be divorced. We want you to wake up. SHE has HUGE issues and you are not going to fix them.

Barbados nailed on thing and Ill take it further. 
1) The best outcome is a cheat free marriage. You don't get that one. Serial cheaters always cheat
2) You divorce. IT is obviously better for your kids to get #1 above but #2 is better than number 3.
3) BAM! here is a time machine view of you in 6-10 years. You are a cuckold. Your kids are teenagers are well aware of mommy screwing everything and daddy being a doormat. You and she are their role models for what a relationship is.

Is an R possible? Yea, but I'll put my odds of hitting the pick 3 lottery higher than your chances. 

You apparently have the resources to hire a PI. Set up a time she is free to come and go without your knowledge and have the PI. (business trip?? Kids might be a hindrance) Deep down you know your odds aint great right?

12 hours on the thing that keeps hitting me is her asking to cuckold you... that is soooo messed up! Anyway sorry I come across as harsh. I am a cynical bastard. I only respond to threads that my gut tells me to. I pass by alot of threads. Yours SCREAMED at me of a man in denial.

***REGARDLESS work on yourself and up your alpha (vs beta) value. D or R you need to work on that*** Also look up a few threads of "sh!t test" learn what it is and don't fail those any more.


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## guitardude (Jan 30, 2013)

Thanks again, guys. Weightlifter, your 3 points are well taken, especially #3. I think you're right, that would be me in a couple of years. I'm talking to one of my good friends who just happens to be the County Prosecutor (and a damn good lawyer) today.

1. I've been trying to talk to her, but she just sits there and doesn't answer. Why?

2. What do I say to her when she starts throwing all this little sh#t in my face?


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## Aunt Ava (Jan 24, 2013)

Guitardude.... You have three threads....with a total of 129 posts...subtract your 25 replies....that's 104 posts from people that have been through it all telling you the same thing. Yet, you keep hoping for a different answer. TAM specializes in the unvarnished truth, if you are looking for a fairy tale read the Grimm Brothers.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Aunt Ava said:


> Guitarman.... You have three threads....with a total of 129 posts...subtract your 25 replies....that's 124 posts from people that have been through it all telling you the same thing. Yet, you keep hoping for a different answer. TAM specializes in the unvarnished truth, if you are looking for a fairy tale read the Grimm Brothers.


He's lucky I'm not a mod on this board! All of those threads would be merged so everyone could see his blame shifting. 

She didn't stop, she was caught.
She didn't stop, her friend left.
She didn't stop, she blamed him.
She didn't stop, he was a poor husband.
She didn't stop, she told him what he wanted to hear.

I have yet to see ANYTHING that has put any blame on her.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

guitardude said:


> 1. I've been trying to talk to her, but she just sits there and doesn't answer. Why?


 She does not answer because she gets what she wants by ignoring you.



guitardude said:


> 2. What do I say to her when she starts throwing all this little sh#t in my face?


 I answered this exact question in a recent post to our thread and will repeat the answer below.

Cheaters always focus on the little things that you do wrong because they do not have big things to focus on to justify their cheating. You are human and thus you are not perfect, yet as a cheater she will try to hold you to a standard of perfection that she does not hold herself to because she wants you to fail to falsely rationalize her cheating. Stop buying into this. She will continue to say this because you let her. Tell her she either accepts you even with your small human imperfection or she does not. *Tell that you will no longer hear about the small things until she address the big things that she is doing that is disrespectful to you as a man and as her husband.*


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## DevastatedDad (Oct 2, 2012)

He requested spy tools from me today so I think he is slowly going to get there.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

In a thread Costa wrote about the mordern Non controlling , lovely, non jelous husbands who allows their women to dance with any ****head and when they see their chicks rubbing their a$$ or pus$y aganist the throbbing penis of other guys staying bummed or trying hard to put a smile on their face to show that they are not controlling or paranoid. 

Another guy like costa wrote.

Realise one thing you are living a one side open marriage for sometime, you can 
1.continue this cuckold life
2.Grow a pair and Give her the D papers. Live your rest of the life with self respect. Show your children that their dad is a real man and they are living in separate houses because their dad was not ready to live the life of a cuckold.
3.Open the other side of the marriage and live in an open marriage.

What kind of wife asks the permission of husband to bang other guys? How much respect she have for you.
Why you are allowing her to walk over you?


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

guitardude said:


> Thanks again, guys. Weightlifter, your 3 points are well taken, especially #3. I think you're right, that would be me in a couple of years. I'm talking to one of my good friends who just happens to be the County Prosecutor (and a damn good lawyer) today.
> 
> 1. I've been trying to talk to her, but she just sits there and doesn't answer. Why?


Because, she has the right to remain silent. Anything she says can and will be used against her, maybe even in a court of law. She has the right to speak an attorney, and to have an attorney present during any questioning. If she cannot afford a lawyer, one will be provided for her at your expense.

Is her name Miranda, by any chance?




guitardude said:


> 2. What do I say to her when she starts throwing all this little sh#t in my face?


Say, "We'll talk about that later, right now we're talking about adultery. Answer the question."


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Because, she has the right to remain silent. Anything she says can and will be used against her, maybe even in a court of law. She has the right to speak an attorney, and to have an attorney present during any questioning. If she cannot afford a lawyer, one will be provided for her at your expense.
> 
> Is her name Miranda, by any chance?
> 
> ...


All of the above and more is probably why I won't get married again, but I digress. If you have a joint bank acct. take 1/2 out and open open your name only. Cancel joint credit cards asap. That is if you find your cajones and have had enough of this total disrespect. I hope you have had enough, good luck.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

guitardude said:


> Thanks again, guys. Weightlifter, your 3 points are well taken, especially #3. I think you're right, that would be me in a couple of years. I'm talking to one of my good friends who just happens to be the County Prosecutor (and a damn good lawyer) today.
> 
> 1. I've been trying to talk to her, but she just sits there and doesn't answer. Why?
> 
> 2. What do I say to her when she starts throwing all this little sh#t in my face?


1.= she knows what she did was wrong and un defenceable.

2.=you say " listen [ask her to make eye contactwith you] this isn't about a blame game or making accusations toward each other...*we* not here to call each other out. I'm here to let you know that I will no longer tolorate bad behavior that deteriorates this marriage from either one of us. Its is your call now in what *we* do to keep *me* from emotionally letting you go. This is were we are at right *now*!


Stay away from saying how *you* feel or saying "you" (meaning her).... 
#1 she doesn't care how you feel. #2 attacking her just shuts her down.
The tactic is showing her you are confident in not excepting her behavior, not excpting the blameshifting, and not excepting the current relationship as it pertains to sharing your wife with some strang.


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## guitardude (Jan 30, 2013)

OK, here's the latest. Last night we talked for over an hour. At first the conversation was very terse and I would raise my voice in anger. I basically told her how disrespectful she has been to me, what kind of wife are you, etc. She basically said that all this small sh#t that I've done has built up over the years, and now she changed her tune and wants a divorce. "I don't love you anymore". She was adamant that she had never cheated on me, and when I told her I was going to sign her up for a polygraph test, she said " I'll be happy to take one just to prove you wrong. Just tell me the day".

You know, though. Women hold grudges. You do something that they don't like, and they'll remember. She brought up a list of about 10 things that had really pissed her off about me, had told me about, and I never did anything about it (or did, but not until later). She said she had built up this huge resentment towards me. Most guys don't sweat the small stuff and just let it go. She obviously can't.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

guitardude said:


> Women hold grudges. You do something that they don't like, and they'll remember.


You're generalizing. BROKEN women hold grudges, the rest of us forgive and move on.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Wow sir you are being played so much by her.

You caught her at the hotel with another guy. Dead to rights, drunk and in his room. They weren't playing cards.

She's outright told you she intended to begin having sex with other guys. She did ask permission, she was informing you. She didn't change her plans to do it, she just decided not to tell you.

Of course she's lost all feelings for you because she lost all respect for you long ago because you've believe the outrageous lies she's told you. No woman can have positive feelings for someone they have no respect for.

She doesn't trust you or your judgement because she's seen who easily you've accepted her obvious cheating and she's decided if you can't see his obvious it is that she's been cheating for a very very long time, then your overall judgement can't be trusted.

Again, it's all about respect for you going to zero.

Schedule the polygraph for Monday. She won't take it, she will fail it.

If you successfully find it in yourself to serious call her on her obvious cheating, and follow through on dealing with it, expect her to get nasty, very nasty. She's had a long term slave in you and she's going to try kicking up the nasty to cower you back into your place.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

And the problem here isn't her holding a grudge. That's a total ruse. 

So is her general anger. I can't help but think that she'd be happiest if she was married to a guy into the Hotwife cuckold thing.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

I think OP is a bit gullible.

OP : The fact about her is she is ver very manipulative. And you don't listen to what manipulative people say, you look at what they do. And what she is doing is cuckolding you and disrespecting you at the same time.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Have you asked her what her definition of cheating is?

Have you confronted her with the PI report/evidence?


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

I'm sorry to say she's still playing and manipulating you and I'm having a hard time understanding why you're even putting yourself through all of this and jumping through all these hoops for a marriage and a woman that both sound beyond dysfunctional. 

Your wife has obviously checked out of the marriage while simultaneously disrespecting you in the most blatant of ways.

Say she takes the polygraph and fails. I ask you again, *what are you going to do about it*? Talk to her some more? Because talking and moping has been working wonders for you so far.

Sorry if I'm coming off as harsh but you've gotten a lot of good advice here, most of which you seem to brush off or ignore while you keep doing what you've been doing which obviously hasn't been working.

Of course she's going to find any little thing she can to justify treating you like garbage and cheating on you. It's called blameshifting.


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## guitardude (Jan 30, 2013)

Well, I guess none of this matters anymore right now. We both agreed that at this point, divorce is the best option. It's wierd in a way; after we both agreed, I felt a sense inner acceptance. I guess I have come to terms that this is the end. I asked her how the kids would handle it; she said that they would be fine. She said she had had a little pre talk with them already. You know what's really wierd, when we started discussing terms of the divorce, we were more friendly and in tune with each other than we had been for weeks. No bitterness at all. She doesn't want anything except for joint custody (50/50) and some cash to get her started (I'm guessing around 10 - 20K for a down payment on a house). That's all she asked for. I get to keep our house (appraised at $250K) which is paid off. She said she didn't want us to part being bitter and hateful towards each other because we will always be around each other due to the kids. She might have been a crappy wife, but she is a helluva good mother. Oh well, time to move on. Pretty sad right now though.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

So you're going to...?

Oh never mind....fvck it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Get the divorce pronto before she comes to her senses about not wanting 1/2 of the equity in the paid off house. She's still in fantasyland and once that wears off she'll more than likely want more. Plus, her friends will probably berate her for not getting as much as she can.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Get the divorce pronto before she comes to her senses about not wanting 1/2 of the equity in the paid off house. She's still in fantasyland and once that wears off she'll more than likely want more. Plus, her friends will probably berate her for not getting as much as she can.


This. If anything your wife has shown that what she says can't be trusted or taken at face value. Ever.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> Get the divorce pronto before she comes to her senses about not wanting 1/2 of the equity in the paid off house. She's still in fantasyland and once that wears off she'll more than likely want more. Plus, her friends will probably berate her for not getting as much as she can.


:iagree::iagree:
Draft this, have it signed ASAP. Be the devastated man, make her feel guiltly.


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## guitardude (Jan 30, 2013)

Man, I was so blind. It was staring me right in the face the whole time, I just didn't want to accept it. A couple of more things she said to me that I was in denial about. We were drinking one day about six months ago and I asked her "What would you do if I cheated on you?". She said "I would forgive you". Funny, cause 2 years earlier she had said "If I ever caught you cheating, I would be gone". A total 180.

3 months ago, we were at a bar talking about sex and she said "How could anyone f#ck the same person for 10 years". After I harassed her about it a couple of days later, she said she was just joking.

I was talking to my buddy about what's been going on in our marriage, and he told me the story of his aunt. She was married to her 1st husband for 12 years, cheated on him, and they divorced. She was married to her 2nd husband for 7 years, cheated on him, and they divorced. She has been in 5 relationships since, and every time she ended up cheating. She's left a path of destruction every where she went, and it doesn't even phase her. 

My wife has said to me on a couple of occasions "I'm so afraid of being alone". I'll never understand that why she doesn't think her actions are leading her to be alone. I hope she doesn't end up like my buddy's aunt.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

She will.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

guitardude said:


> Well, I guess none of this matters anymore right now. We both agreed that at this point, divorce is the best option. It's wierd in a way; after we both agreed, I felt a sense inner acceptance. I guess I have come to terms that this is the end. I asked her how the kids would handle it; she said that they would be fine. She said she had had a little pre talk with them already. You know what's really wierd, when we started discussing terms of the divorce, we were more friendly and in tune with each other than we had been for weeks. No bitterness at all. She doesn't want anything except for joint custody (50/50) and some cash to get her started (I'm guessing around 10 - 20K for a down payment on a house). That's all she asked for. I get to keep our house (appraised at $250K) which is paid off. She said she didn't want us to part being bitter and hateful towards each other because we will always be around each other due to the kids. She might have been a crappy wife, but she is a helluva good mother. Oh well, time to move on. Pretty sad right now though.


Were you both drinking? Sounds like she might have been drunk.


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## guitardude (Jan 30, 2013)

No, neither of us were drinking. She has never been a vindictive person. When her first marriage failed (she was 21), she just walked away, even though they had about $20000 in assets. She gave him the house, the only thing she left with was her car and about $5000.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

^ I bet she cheated on her ex too.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> ^ I bet she cheated on her ex too.


She did. He mentioned that in one of his posts.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

guitardude said:


> No, neither of us were drinking. She has never been a vindictive person. When her first marriage failed (she was 21), she just walked away, even though they had about $20000 in assets. She gave him the house, the only thing she left with was her car and about $5000.


Count your blessings. You are going to get off easy if history repeats itself.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

guitardude said:


> No, neither of us were drinking. She has never been a vindictive person. When her first marriage failed (she was 21), she just walked away, even though they had about $20000 in assets. She gave him the house, the only thing she left with was her car and about $5000.


Great! (not great that your m is falling apart - but great that you won't get raped in the fallout)

Get on the stick right away. It doesn't matter now that she cheated - I think you know she did. But you can assume she didn't if it makes you feel better.


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

Wow, you've come a long way guitardude. Don't stop being a great father!


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Sad. We all knew this was coming. Seems this place simply gives the results had they not come here in the first place... Except it takes 2 to12 days here instead of 2 to 12 years.

Oh and guitar. Get in a band pronto and when you are legally separated... Let Ragingpain be your inspiration!


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Anyone else get the sense that she's going to jump in with another dude ASAP? And in fact the other dude is spreads lined up, test driven, and just waiting to be introduced to the kids?


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## 2asdf2 (Jun 5, 2012)

guitardude said:


> Well, I guess none of this matters anymore right now. We both agreed that at this point, divorce is the best option. It's wierd in a way; after we both agreed, I felt a sense inner acceptance. I guess I have come to terms that this is the end. I asked her how the kids would handle it; she said that they would be fine. She said she had had a little pre talk with them already. You know what's really wierd, when we started discussing terms of the divorce, we were more friendly and in tune with each other than we had been for weeks. No bitterness at all. She doesn't want anything except for joint custody (50/50) and some cash to get her started (I'm guessing around 10 - 20K for a down payment on a house). That's all she asked for. I get to keep our house (appraised at $250K) which is paid off. She said she didn't want us to part being bitter and hateful towards each other because we will always be around each other due to the kids. She might have been a crappy wife, but she is a helluva good mother. Oh well, time to move on. Pretty sad right now though.


You lucky MoFo!


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## not.a.fool (Jan 27, 2013)

Let her go! Tell her she's a damn whack-o and that she's got "Marriage" all wrong, if she loved you she wouldn't "test" you or otherwise! You sound like a great person and there are other GREAT women out there, let her take a short walk off a long cliff!


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

guitardude said:


> My wife has said to me on a couple of occasions "I'm so afraid of being alone".


Depending on who it is, I auto-translate this to "I do not like to sleep alone."

Good luck. I don't wish that heartache on anyone, but the cheater.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

Guitarman

*Now that it is sure that you both are going to divorce take the deal.*
If it went to court in my state you would have to give her $125,000 in order to keep the house. Joint custody 50/50 is the best you can get unless your wife is a drug pusher with felony records.

The only thing that you have left of this relationship is the financial situation and your children. Concentrate on those two only and make yourself stop thinking about your wife. She is gone and is history.

Yes I know that some divorced people get back together after years apart but do not go there for now. You have been disrespected BIG TIME and you need to demand that you are no longer going to be treated as a door mat. *Your children need a strong father that will not allow such disrespect*. Work on you and your children and have no contact with your wife unless it is absolutely necessary and then make your conversation as short as possible.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I suggest strongly you investigate and find out who the other current guy is that is with your wife.

You are being setup for some plan they've got and you are going to find out at the time of their choosing. That's never good. You need to take control of situation back, and you can only do that with knowledge.


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## not.a.fool (Jan 27, 2013)

does it really matter so much WHO it is as much as it does that THERE IS?


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## guitardude (Jan 30, 2013)

There is no other guy. She's into 1 night stands. She thinks more like a guy than most of my guy friends. This weekend, she told me to stay at my friends house and hang out with him to watch the superbowl. I work 85 miles from my house, so I told her, no problem, I'll be back on Monday. 

Couldn't ge a hold of my friend until late, so I ended up driving back home. Didn't tell her I was coming back. Got a hotel room a couple of miles from the house. Went back to the house to get some stuff I forgot. It was around 10pm. When I got home, her car wasn't there. Here we go again, I thought. 

I went to the bar where we usually go and dance. Her car was there. There are usually a number of good looking guys in this bar. I parked my car so I could get a good view of the entrance without being noticed. She stayed until closing, 1:30 AM. I figured for sure she was going to get laid, cause I was supposed to be away. To my surprise, she walked out of the bar by herself and drove home.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

She could have done what she could have done in the club. Some crazy **** happens in there sometimes.

And why do you want to be married to a guy?


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

not.a.fool said:


> does it really matter so much WHO it is as much as it does that THERE IS?


Does Ted Bundy or Charles Manson ring a bell? (Extreme I know - but I wanted to drive the point home.)

It sure as heck matters WHO if this WHO is going to be around guitardude's kids.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> And the problem here isn't her holding a grudge. That's a total ruse.
> 
> So is her general anger. I can't help but think that *she'd be happiest if she was married to a guy into the Hotwife cuckold thing.*


She thought she was.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> She could have done what she could have done in the club. Some crazy **** happens in there sometimes.
> 
> And why do you want to be married to a guy?


True. Ive known a few women back in college who did this... They had friends who told me they could never figure out their their friends taste... It was not always looks. Even the easiest ones sometimes went home alone if they were not feeling it.

Move on Guitar man. Methinks a few months of healing and you will use your guitarness to full advantage.


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## not.a.fool (Jan 27, 2013)

although there isn't a damn thing that can be done about it..I see your point in concern, but like I said, there is NOTHING that can be done about it, unless the OM has a restraint put on him and then of course there must be physical reason to the child, not what they have done in their past, but what they have done to offend the child..doesn't matter what they did, it's going to have to be proved to be an effective cause for restraint, so yeah...at this point, it's senseless to concern yourself with WHO it is


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