# Is it really reconciliation or are you just dragging the corpse around



## magoguen (Mar 23, 2016)

Article on Divorced moms:
DivorcedMoms.com | Article


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## Vikings (Feb 3, 2016)

I'm going through nearly the identical situation as the lady who wrote this piece. Caught wife cheating, she will not read books on how to reconcile the marriage, take the appropriate steps like transparency to help me feel safe and she is not being honest and open about the details of the affairs, yes multiple men. She has been rug sweeping and gaslighting through this nightmare. Also I'm the one finding and arranging the marriage counseling. If feel like I'm dragging the corpse of our dead marriage around, hanging on, hoping things will change, or Dr. Frankenstein will come and bring live back to our marriage.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Vikings said:


> I'm going through nearly the identical situation as the lady who wrote this piece. Caught wife cheating, she will not read books on how to reconcile the marriage, take the appropriate steps like transparency to help me feel safe and she is not being honest and open about the details of the affairs, yes multiple men. She has been rug sweeping and gaslighting through this nightmare. Also I'm the one finding and arranging the marriage counseling. If feel like I'm dragging the corpse of our dead marriage around, hanging on, hoping things will change, or Dr. Frankenstein will come and bring live back to our marriage.


With a cheating wife like that - what is there left to save exactly? You only get on go around - dont waste it on people who are not worth your time - especially a cheater.


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## magoguen (Mar 23, 2016)

I went through it too which is why I posted the article. I am divorced now but I wish I came across this or a site like the chump lady when I first found out about the ex's affair. It would have saved me a ton of grief and years of my life I will never get back. I suppose there are some cheaters out there that do the right thing but they are very few and very far between. Let's face it, if cheating is your coping mechanism then you're not likely to lead with the humility it takes to fix the relationship that you detonated the infidelity bomb over.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

magoguen said:


> I went through it too which is why I posted the article. I am divorced now but I wish I came across this or a site like the chump lady when I first found out about the ex's affair. It would have saved me a ton of grief and years of my life I will never get back. I suppose there are some cheaters out there that do the right thing but they are very few and very far between. Let's face it, if cheating is your coping mechanism then you're not likely to lead with the humility it takes to fix the relationship that you detonated the infidelity bomb over.


Chumplady puts things in focus for BSs -doesnt she? In many cases of infidelity the cheater is never truly remorseful - even if the couple stays together..lets be honest - the cheater had a good time sneaking around and fvcking another person - the affair was fun - what they dont want is to pay the price after the affair is over...their selfishness shines through yet again..

You also said something that is true - screwing is their coping mechanism - their Bs didnt make them cheat - they wanted to..some to cope with life's issues and for others it was about their inability to resist scratching the itch of wanting someone else...


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## bigfoot (Jan 22, 2014)

Vikings said:


> I'm going through nearly the identical situation as the lady who wrote this piece. Caught wife cheating, she will not read books on how to reconcile the marriage, take the appropriate steps like transparency to help me feel safe and she is not being honest and open about the details of the affairs, yes multiple men. She has been rug sweeping and gaslighting through this nightmare. Also I'm the one finding and arranging the marriage counseling. If feel like I'm dragging the corpse of our dead marriage around, hanging on, hoping things will change, or Dr. Frankenstein will come and bring live back to our marriage.


THIS is why you are doomed to fail. Sorry. Until you change yourself, you can't even understand what success is. 

As to the original post said, so many betrayed are just dragging the body around. It really is sad. I'm not saying that a finalized divorce must happen, but if only one side values the marriage then all is lost.

Still, so many betrayed try to save a marriage without understanding that the marriage they are trying to save is already dead.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

He cheated, their reconciliation was false, she moved on. The end.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I am a chumplady fan as well. Of all the approaches to infidelity out there, I resonate with hers the most. I think a lot of BS's are just dragging the corpse around.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

After my Ws affair with OM-1, I had an image in my mind of a puppet with strings, I could get my W to do sexual things only by pulling the strings. There was always hope of reanimation in the back of my mind, years became decades.

I do like the corpse analogy as well.

Tamat


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

Good article, I dragged the corpse around for a couple of years after Dday1. I don't consider those wasted years, it took me that time to process the fact the marriage was dead. I was hoping for a miracle. 

The telling part was her not doing the 'work'. I wanted her to read Shirley Glass's book "Not Just Friends", but she "lost" it. She wouldn't read some other articles I asked her to. She would agree to, but never find the time. If that is happening to you, then you have a corpse on your hands.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

TAMAT said:


> There was always hope of reanimation in the back of my mind, years became decades.
> 
> I do like the corpse analogy as well.
> 
> Tamat


I've been beating the drum that women in affairs have typically lost interest in their spouse and it seldom, if ever, returns. Although its usually ignored, the facts often support my contentions.
Accordingly, these BSs who think they alone can orchestrate a reconciliation that results in a marriage that's close to satisfying or even acceptable are fooling themselves. A successful reconciliation is going to be one when the WS, seeing the error of their ways, initiates the "R" and the BS is willing to forgive and accept the offer. Anything else is highly likely to result in the BS being little more than insurance for a room and board. Hence the typical followup thread, "little intimacy after R".
At so point you need to ask yourselves, " is being without her/him really worse then the half azzed, unfulfilling, suspicious, high maintenance and problem laden situation I have keeping them around?"


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## magoguen (Mar 23, 2016)

Unfortunately so many people are in denial about their reconciliation efforts. I was in complete denial. I hear so much on RIC sites about the illustrious "fog" cheaters are supposed to be in. The only people in a fog are the BSs. Their whole world has been turned upside down and they don't know which end is up. They wind up making horrible choices too.

It's too bad that the majority of advice out there is to "try to work it out."


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

magoguen said:


> Unfortunately so many people are in denial about their reconciliation efforts. I was in complete denial. I hear so much on RIC sites about the illustrious "fog" cheaters are supposed to be in. The only people in a fog are the BSs. Their whole world has been turned upside down and they don't know which end is up. They wind up making horrible choices too.
> 
> It's too bad that the majority of advice out there is to "try to work it out."


I never give that advice initially.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Vikings said:


> I'm going through nearly the identical situation as the lady who wrote this piece. Caught wife cheating, she will not read books on how to reconcile the marriage, take the appropriate steps like transparency to help me feel safe and she is not being honest and open about the details of the affairs, yes multiple men. She has been rug sweeping and gaslighting through this nightmare. Also I'm the one finding and arranging the marriage counseling. If feel like I'm dragging the corpse of our dead marriage around, hanging on, hoping things will change, or Dr. Frankenstein will come and bring live back to our marriage.


What?! :surprise:

What the flying fvck? I thought you canned that bimbo and you were headed for D. WTF happened?


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Acoa said:


> Good article, I dragged the corpse around for a couple of years after Dday1. I don't consider those wasted years, it took me that time to process the fact the marriage was dead. I was hoping for a miracle.
> 
> The telling part was her not doing the 'work'. I wanted her to read Shirley Glass's book "Not Just Friends", but she "lost" it. She wouldn't read some other articles I asked her to. She would agree to, but never find the time. If that is happening to you, then you have a corpse on your hands.


If my WW was doing what yours did, I would not be working on our relationship. I did buy that book and we're both still reading it. She has agreed to all types of related therapy and even brought up other couple's support meetings for us to go to. Even last night, we were at a couples AA/ALA meeting and she voiced before I did, that she wants us to continue such meetings.

Even with all of this, thinking we're fixed - hasn't happened yet as its recent and we have many many months of repairs to do.

My WW is going to read books I have checked out of the library, after she is done with "Not Just Friends" ~ as will I.

I'm hoping for the best.

But yeah, in that article : if the cheating partner (or any partner) is not wanting to do therapy or the WORK to repair and heal - then the marriage is a dead corpse.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

ThePheonix said:


> I've been beating the drum that *women in affairs have typically lost interest in their spouse *and it seldom, if ever, returns. Although its usually ignored, the facts often support my contentions.


Time tells the real story...

Oh, the former cheating wife may put a good show on for you, friends, family for a year or two, maybe longer... but that *Interest *will be telling as the months roll by to years. 

I remember post DD, my wife desperately wants to R. Says it's all her fault, pleads for mercy. I looked at her in MC one afternoon and asked...

_"What's changed. I'm the same person I was 10, 20 years ago. You know I'm not changing. Why now do you so want me and pledge your love, basically your devoted interest... 1 month ago you despised me, told your AP our marriage had meant nothing for years, "we" were nothing together. Why now?"_

*Is it really reconciliation or are you just dragging the corpse around?*

Good question? Probably one anyone attempting R should revisit on a regular basis. 6+ years down road, its not a one and done. It has it's daily challenges. In time, you begin to except the baggage for what it is.


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## Vikings (Feb 3, 2016)

Our MC has never heard the term gaslighting, I never until I came to this forum. My wife and I are smarted than the MC, not sure she is going to be able to help us. I'm going to look for a better one that will know how to crack a sex addict that is hiding in the closet.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Never been through this, but think it would boil down to if both spouses are truly interested in reconciling, or just too afraid of being divorced. It would be better to go through a divorce, than stay in a marriage where the only reason a WS is remaining, is because he/she doesn't want to lose a lifestyle and upset the kids. To me, such a person...it will only be a matter of time before he/she goes the wayward route again.


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

Vikings said:


> Our MC has never heard the term gaslighting, I never until I came to this forum. My wife and I are smarted than the MC, not sure she is going to be able to help us. I'm going to look for a better one that will know how to crack a sex addict that is hiding in the closet.



Vikings, I have read some of your other threads so I know some of your situation. I hope you and your wife are not just doing MC, but IC as well. Your wife needs to be with someone who has experience with sex addiction. You need to make that a requirement.


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## magoguen (Mar 23, 2016)

It's not just the WS that can go through the motions. I was a BS and even though I was doing all the hard work, the bottom line was that my gut instinct told me to split immediately and i ignored it. I was afraid of starting over and decreasing my lifestyle. Even though I knew the ex's heart wasn't in it and he was expecting me to do all the work, I devalued my worth enough to think that was the best I deserved. I honestly believe that when a BS stays with a cheater the only they're guaranteed is another dday. I didn't get one of those but I'm convinced if I stayed that's all I would've gotten. He didn't want to stay with me, he just didn't want to lose half of his ****....In his defense I didn't either.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

magoguen said:


> He didn't want to stay with me, he just didn't want to lose half of his ****....In his defense I didn't either.


Brutal Honesty.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

The thing a lot of folks fail to realize is there was a reason for the affair. (and there are many) Until the reason(s) is honestly identified and dealt with, its going remain in a smoldering state in any attempt to salvage the relationship. 
Just because a person shows remorse and is transparent in their activities, is not necessarily an indication the desire is out of their blood, if you will. Merely characterizing the relationship as a "R" without actually knowing why the cheating happened and dealing with reason, if it can be dealt with, is likely doomed (or unsatisfactory at best) .


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## mrshavisham (Mar 8, 2016)

Vikings said:


> Our MC has never heard the term gaslighting, I never until I came to this forum. My wife and I are smarted than the MC, not sure she is going to be able to help us. I'm going to look for a better one that will know how to crack a sex addict that is hiding in the closet.


What is gaslighting?


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

In the book "Not JUst Friends" I believe it clearly states that one of the reasons the chances for reconciliation are worse when women cheat is not only the sex but women typically are " checked out" before the sex begins.

We see thread after thread here about women breaking NC, unable to give up their OM, and cheating again and again and men just refusing to get out of denial.

Vikings, you ARE dragging a dead corpse around, and a new MC is not going to solve her problem.

Men are more likely to give up the AP totally once they are convinced the sex is stopped.

And this so called "fog" dissipates much more quickly once the WW is served with divorce papers. I notice that when men beg and start blaming themselves, the "fog" continues/

When we get real, the "fog" goes away because the consequences become clear. Ev


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

I'm unusual. Probably very harmed from the whole love experience. 

She gaslighted me for years. I let her, in hope that she was going through a phase, maybe just...honestly I'm not sure why. I guess I never really experienced love before and what she gave me looked closer to it than anything I'd experienced before. 

She had sex with me June 3, 2011 and left June 6, 2011. I was served papers in July, 2011 and was divorced by the end of July, 2012.

I was broken by it all. I have help with healing. I have to because reality wasn't enough for me to let go. I don't try to contact her or anything like that, but she is still in my heart and on my mind every day. That's the problem. I can't get her out of my mind and heart. 

I don't want to and can't attempt dating. When I was broken, it was social, mental, emotional, financial due to rumors, things I did during 2011 and 2012, and I don't have any answers from her and therefore, not closure, though I haven't really talked with her or asked for any answers since before June 2011.

She hurt me. She wanted to hurt me. She wanted to harm me. She did. I didn't deserve it anymore than any other BS. I didn't try to stop her from divorce, I only wanted to discuss why. Not everyone is able to move on with life. Sometimes, things that happen change you forever.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

mrshavisham said:


> What is gaslighting?


Basically gaslighting is when your wayward spouse tells you that you are being crazy or deluded in thinking they are cheating. The wayward will deflect your rationale and throw it back on you, accusing you of being jealous and doing their best to make you think you are the crazy one. 

It is a cruel form of mental and emotional manipulation they use to avoid being caught.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Basically gaslighting is when your wayward spouse tells you that you are being crazy or deluded in thinking they are cheating. The wayward will deflect your rationale and throw it back on you, accusing you of being jealous and doing their best to make you think you are the crazy one.
> 
> It is a cruel form of mental and emotional manipulation they use to avoid being caught.


The better they are at gaslighting, the worse. They can even make it look like they are cheating and never have. No one can be certain of anything, unless there is irrefutable evidence. 

That's another issue for me. How much can I believe? How much should I believe? In other words, was I that stupid or what? That opens another can of worms for me. I'm in sad shape and have to work on it all with counseling. 

I am working on it, though the counselor just wants to rugsweep it all cause I'll never know the truth. That's a lifetime of doubt ahead. Doubt in myself. Doubt in believing anything, even what I see and experience. It's tough. I'll deal with it, but how can anyone who goes through all that, ever believe in love or another human again? How can I believe my own conclusions from observations? Sucks to be me. 

I have enough circumstantial evidence that any civil court would believe, but I don't have pictures. All the counselors I've had believe she was unfaithful. They also believe it doesn't matter. I listed above why it matters in my life.

I did confront one potential AP. She told him when I confronted and he started admitting things, "He doesn't know". He never said a thing, just verbally stumbled with attempting to explain. I should have beaten him to a bloody pulp, and could have at the time, but I felt sorrier for the poor fool than I did myself.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> Sometimes, things that happen change you forever.


I wished I could say something to help you get back to the way you ought to feel and not permit this chick to control you. I can't. 
Even though you've temporarily sworn off women and on a hunger strike of sorts, if it were me, I'd have to start seeing some. Ain't nothing that will help you get over the wrong one like the right one. Besides, they are fun to spend time with even without a romantic element. I just love them to pieces and they are really interesting to talk to.


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## magoguen (Mar 23, 2016)

RWB said:


> Brutal Honesty.


The truth is generally brutal


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

_She hurt me. She wanted to hurt me. She wanted to harm me. She did. I didn't deserve it anymore than any other BS. I didn't try to stop her from divorce, I only wanted to discuss why. Not everyone is able to move on with life. Sometimes, things that happen change you forever._

Read "not Just friends" by Dr. Shirley Glass.

Your ex was particularly evil. Really, she isn't shedding a tear for your pain. She doesn't care. You need healing, you need to start dating or even going to a strip bar.

Your ex is NEVER coming back and she has nothing to say to you. She wants you to hurt, she is getting off on it - if she is thinking about you at all.

There are better women in the world than your ex. Really... the lack of closer totally sucks. But please, do your best to improve yourself and move on.

Its common to have our hearts broken a few times in our lives.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

I think a lot of times men believe their exes are "out to purposely hurt them" by ambivalence toward them and flaunting other guys. This is often not the case. The girl is no longer in love with them, wants nothing else to do with them, and simply moved on. These guys get treated with disdain because they keep trying to get milk from a dry cow. 
When a woman is no longer in love with you, you're continued effort to get her back is an annoyance and her unsavory action are often her effort to help you wake up and smell the coffee. (and lets face it, who wouldn't feel a sense of importance when the person you broke up refuse to even date because they thought you were the only one with the qualities to make them happy.)


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## Vikings (Feb 3, 2016)

That is completely accurate with your textbook case of a WW. Some cases are not like that. Mine is not like that. My wife is loving to me and my son, makes plans for us to have nights out and a babysitter, plans for hiking, workout together, cooking together, cleaning the house together. We are having the best sex of our entire relationship right now. 

Problem is she is addicted to cybersex. We lost contact over the years, were not communicating sexual needs and she turned to pleasuring herself then she got sucked into the cybersex world when she joined myfitnesspal. 

I’m working on trying to help her overcome this addiction. Right now she is in the denial stage. In her mind it is not cheating because there is no physical contact. She calls it a “step-up” from porn and she says that she didn’t think I would be this upset about it. 

We are in MC, but I don’t think our MC is capable of helping us. The MC has never heard the term gaslighting for crying out loud. When I had my one on one with her last week and I was giving her the details she looked like a deer in headlights. I think the depth of my wife’s cybersex addiction is too much for our current MC to handle.


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## Vikings (Feb 3, 2016)

This is a good article that pretty much hits the nail on the head with wife's addiction. 

https://www.netnanny.com/learn_center/article/160/


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## Vikings (Feb 3, 2016)

In fact, retired sexual crimes investigator Willie Draughon asserts that "females are more inclined to pursue the communication aspect of the subculture after their initial intro through visual porn. The argument can be made that females may spend even more time in the porn underworld-i.e., chatrooms, phone sex, and eventually personal encounters-than males since their world of intimacy involves the need to have more stimulation than just the visual alone to reach the fantasy of fulfillment. The Internet provides this type of environment for women more than any other vehicle in history." In next month's article I will discuss the myriad of pornography's victims-those who lie in the wake of porn wreckage. The list of victims is far more expansive that you might ever imagine. I will blow away the argument that says pornography is a harmless outlet-what someone does in the privacy of their own home or office is their business and doesn't hurt anyone else. When it comes to pornography, especially Internet porn, nothing could be further from the truth.


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## Vikings (Feb 3, 2016)

Actually I think she is not only addicted to the cybersex, but she is addicted to the internet. She is always on her phone with us, she is socializing in Facebook, in anonymous places like myfitnesspal, texting friends, checking email, researching things of interest. 

She can't put her phone down. It gives her much pleasure from learning about things, chatting with friends, to sexual needs. 

I've been constantly asking her to put her phone down and join the family and she is slowly coming around. Lately she has been more involved with my son and I but still every 5 to 10 minutes would pick up her phone and start checking things. 

I just purchased this book and I will bring this up with the MC meeting this week. 

http://www.amazon.com/Caught-Net-Recognize-Internet-Addiction/dp/0471191590


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Notwithstanding the cybersex, part of the problem Viking is with you doing all the chores and babysitting, this gal has too much time on her hands.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

TaDor said:


> _She hurt me. She wanted to hurt me. She wanted to harm me. She did. I didn't deserve it anymore than any other BS. I didn't try to stop her from divorce, I only wanted to discuss why. Not everyone is able to move on with life. Sometimes, things that happen change you forever._
> 
> Read "not Just friends" by Dr. Shirley Glass.
> 
> ...


I have social anxiety bad enough that I feel exhausted, overwhelmed, and have small attacks of it which cause me to be unable to think. They are getting lighter, but they haven't vanished. That's one reason I don't go out. Don't have the money to go out anyway. 

Been to strip bars. Don't like them any more. Watch dirty sweaty naked women who don't care any more for me than my ex? Nah, I'll pass. 

Been to a roadhouse. Been to plenty of bars. I've seen too much and don't want to see any more. 

You write all of that like you know me and/or her. 

I honestly don't know what she thinks. I sure don't think she loves me. Doesn't matter. I know what I feel.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Addicted to sticking your finger in the socket and getting a buzz? Solution = Turn off the electricity

Addicted to cybersex? Solution = Turn off the internet and cell phone internet


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Nobody here knows anyone's heart or head completely, 2ntnuf. I'm learning about affairs and coping skills from professionals.

You got a bad no-closure woman. You posted that. 
I and most others here KNOW mostly what you have gone through. We got screwed over, betrayed by someone we love.

Its been almost 5 years since your break up, and you are still very traumatized. You seemed to never healed much, so what is your plan? Spend every day over a woman who won't give you a second of her time? You said the following yourself:


> "but she is still in my heart and on my mind every day. That's the problem. I can't get her out of my mind and heart."


You're wasting your time and energy - you've given her power over your life. Pretty much since the divorce papers were signed - she hasn't called you or anything - she is not thinking about you. She's living her life doing who knows what with countless men since then.

You are out of her life, its pointless to cry over her still. By all means, I spent years missing a girl I was in love with. I went out on simple cheap dates - got my tool wet, had fun, meet new people.

Unless you make a point to improve yourself more so and do something, you'll continue to feel sorry for yourself.

I've gone through the emotions, I don't feel sorry for myself for quite a long time.

So please get some self-help books at the library, have friends give you some support and learn to live.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Check this out about Narcissists : https://selfcarehaven.wordpress.com...ays-abusive-narcissists-get-inside-your-head/

The woman who walked out of your life, without a care about you or explaination - had no feelings. She was done with you and enjoyed what she was doing to you.


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

Vikings said:


> I'm going through nearly the identical situation as the lady who wrote this piece. Caught wife cheating, she will not read books on how to reconcile the marriage, take the appropriate steps like transparency to help me feel safe and she is not being honest and open about the details of the affairs, yes multiple men. She has been rug sweeping and gaslighting through this nightmare. Also I'm the one finding and arranging the marriage counseling. If feel like I'm dragging the corpse of our dead marriage around, hanging on, hoping things will change, or Dr. Frankenstein will come and bring live back to our marriage.


Holy crap. I could have written this. And if the best you can hope for is Shelly's creature, well you did read it all the way to the end, right?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

TaDor said:


> Check this out about Narcissists : https://selfcarehaven.wordpress.com...ays-abusive-narcissists-get-inside-your-head/
> 
> The woman who walked out of your life, without a care about you or explaination - had no feelings. She was done with you and enjoyed what she was doing to you.


This was eerie to read.


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## WhyMe66 (Mar 25, 2016)

Vikings said:


> I'm going through nearly the identical situation as the lady who wrote this piece. Caught wife cheating, she will not read books on how to reconcile the marriage, take the appropriate steps like transparency to help me feel safe and she is not being honest and open about the details of the affairs, yes multiple men. She has been rug sweeping and gaslighting through this nightmare. Also I'm the one finding and arranging the marriage counseling. If feel like I'm dragging the corpse of our dead marriage around, hanging on, hoping things will change, or Dr. Frankenstein will come and bring live back to our marriage.


I was there too, but I gave up hope on MC. Abandoned hope all together...


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## Matos (Mar 25, 2016)

ThePheonix said:


> The thing a lot of folks fail to realize is there was a reason for the affair. (and there are many) *Until the reason(s) is honestly identified and dealt with, its going remain in a smoldering state in any attempt to salvage the relationship. *
> Just because a person shows remorse and is transparent in their activities, is not necessarily an indication the desire is out of their blood, if you will. Merely characterizing the relationship as a "R" without actually knowing why the cheating happened and dealing with reason, if it can be dealt with, is likely doomed (or unsatisfactory at best) .


How do you know if it's 'honestly' identified? 

If my WH says he felt very unhappy in our relationship (rightfully so) and had decided he was done trying to fix our relationship so he opened himself up for something to happen with someone he was attracted to, is that an honest reason? 

If he says he saw his AP as a way to get a fresh start and let go of his feelings about failing our relationship, is that an honest reason? 

If he says his coping mechanism is running away and he wants to stop doing that, is that an honest reason?

I'm not being snarky here, I'm just wondering how one knows what the honest reason is.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Vikings said:


> I'm going through nearly the identical situation as the lady who wrote this piece. Caught wife cheating, she will not read books on how to reconcile the marriage, take the appropriate steps like transparency to help me feel safe and she is not being honest and open about the details of the affairs, yes multiple men. She has been rug sweeping and gaslighting through this nightmare. Also I'm the one finding and arranging the marriage counseling. If feel like I'm dragging the corpse of our dead marriage around, hanging on, hoping things will change, or Dr. Frankenstein will come and bring live back to our marriage.


Its dead, Jim.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Matos said:


> How do you know if it's 'honestly' identified?
> 
> If my WH says he felt very unhappy in our relationship (rightfully so) and had decided he was done trying to fix our relationship so he opened himself up for something to happen with someone he was attracted to, is that an honest reason?
> 
> ...


I know you are asking @pheonix, but even my counselors have told me, "you will never know what happened". Or, in other words ...

... "Gunga gungala gunga. When you die, on your death bed you will receive total consciousness. So, I got that goin' for me, which is nice." - Caddyshack - Bill Murray

https://youtu.be/TkLH56VlKT0

Effing great ... It's like winning the booby prize. No one wants it and you worked so hard and spent so much on the dart game, you take it. Aaaarggg


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Matos said:


> How do you know if it's 'honestly' identified?


Excellent question. BS try to indirectly identify it by asking for "all the details". Probably the best way most of us can get to the bottom of it is Socratic inquiry (its a lengthy topic but generally asking a series of questions to dismantle preexisting notions and soft peddling real feelings )


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## magoguen (Mar 23, 2016)

ThePheonix said:


> The thing a lot of folks fail to realize is there was a reason for the affair. (and there are many) Until the reason(s) is honestly identified and dealt with, its going remain in a smoldering state in any attempt to salvage the relationship.
> Just because a person shows remorse and is transparent in their activities, is not necessarily an indication the desire is out of their blood, if you will. Merely characterizing the relationship as a "R" without actually knowing why the cheating happened and dealing with reason, if it can be dealt with, is likely doomed (or unsatisfactory at best) .


I don't know. Maybe it's the chump lady side of me, but I don't think the reasons people cheat are all that complex. And though they'd like the BSs of the world to believe this, it has nothing to do with them. 

They cheat because they're entitled to cheat, they cheat because they want to try out a new relationship before they give up the old one (aka cowards). They cheat because they want some strange or they cheat because their communication skills are lacking. They're unhappy so instead of talking to their spouse, they talk to someone that undoubtedly senses trouble in paradise and they feed them the crap they know the cheater wants to hear.

It's not that complicated. Really it's not.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

@magoguen : Your reasons for cheating are true, but incomplete. Many people fall into an Affair because of working together and how our brains work. Without check and balances to KNOW when they are doing that - an affair happens, usually EA to start. Think of the legit office romances that happen... because you have people working together.

@2ntnuf : see what I mean from reading that? Hence, get help and let that waste-of-life woman go. Since she left you, she has likely done that to 10 others guys or more. Maybe she has herpes by now. You can only wish.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

TaDor said:


> magoguen : Your reasons for cheating are true, but incomplete. Many people fall into an Affair because of working together and how our brains work. Without check and balances to KNOW when they are doing that - an affair happens, usually EA to start. Think of the legit office romances that happen... because you have people working together.


Cheating occurs due to either a lapse in character or a lack of character.

And there the list ends.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Agreed.... Gus.

But... what I'm getting at is HOW some people end up a lapse in character.

Look at revenge affairs... is that a good thing? Kind of understandable and it does happen. Sometimes between two betrayed people whose WWs had the affair.
But even I, didn't do a RA or just have sex in spite - it made me feel like a turd and in general, its not what I would normally do. But at least I had a friend to cry and sleep with (no sex) until I started therapy and meetings.

I try to be honest to the best of my abilities or as I see things. Simple as that.


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## WhyMe66 (Mar 25, 2016)

Matos said:


> How do you know if it's 'honestly' identified?
> 
> If my WH says he felt very unhappy in our relationship (rightfully so) and had decided he was done trying to fix our relationship so he opened himself up for something to happen with someone he was attracted to, is that an honest reason?
> 
> ...


Honesty. Therein lies the rub... That is where the rebuilding of trust comes in. WH has to, somehow, re-earn your trust. And I honestly do not know how to do that. I can't trust my STBX WW at all.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

@TaDor, 

I'm definitely working on it. Have a session today.


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## Vikings (Feb 3, 2016)

My WW and I have a MC session together today. She was being super nice this morning. She doesn't want me to tell the MC about her continued self-pleasuring herself looking at her phone when my son and I are not home. She is too embarrassed, it is very personal to discuss pleasuring yourself during cybersex to a stranger. Also I feel the MC is in over her head with my situation with my WW. 

I've done a lot of research and come to conclusion she is addicted to the cybersex. It relieves stress, releases a chemical to the brain at climax which produces a high and I believe she is totally hooked on that high. 

Fantasy will always beat reality, I can't compete with fantasy. 

Do you break up the family, cause our son and grown kids and our immediate family pain by divorcing and exposing, or do you hang tight and try to work through it?

She knows it is killing me yet she will not stop, transparency is worse, I'm shut out of all her email, myfitnesspal, and KIK and Skype accounts of hers are still open. 

I'm going to throw down my conditions today at MC about total transparency for the 2nd time and the MC is going to repeat to her she needs to come clean and be transparent. If that doesn't work then when I meet with the attorney Friday morning to go over scenarios and options of divorce then I'm going to file. She will be out of town next week on a business trip for 3 days 2 nights and I will pack up her things and put them in the garage for her to pick up when she returns.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

magoguen said:


> They cheat because they're entitled to cheat, they cheat because they want to try out a new relationship before they give up the old one (aka cowards).
> 
> They're unhappy so instead of talking to their spouse, they talk to someone that undoubtedly senses trouble in paradise and they feed them the crap they know the cheater wants to hear.
> 
> It's not that complicated. Really it's not.


Only when caught do... The words confused, complicated, broken, start to surface. Funny, while deep in the A, they are confident and focused. Makes you wonder hmm.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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