# Please explain to me how this is wrong.



## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

I haven't looked at porn in well over a year. Today I woke pretty horny even though me and the wife had sex last night. She is working today from 7am to 8pm. During the course of the day I went on YouTube and typed in a porn star who I happen to find attractive. Looked at a video, no sex act, no nudity, just her in her underwear. She is a attractive women. It was a moment of weakness. I didn't masturbate, it was gone from mind moments later.
As I have suspected my wife has some sort of device on my phone calls me hysterical. How could I do this to her? After last night. How she feeling bad about her body,etc.
Prior to last night we haven't had sex in two weeks, due to constant fighting. I told her I will not look at porn but there are things that I can't help myself and look at. I save my orgasms for her. We also have pictures of us together that I look at. I look at those also. I can't keep doing this back and forth anymore.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Your wife has some sort of device on your phone? Far out what sort of a weird situation is that? 

Personally some DIY to porn is not such a big deal IMHO


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## aribabe (Aug 9, 2012)

She's psycho.

No seriously...
She's crazy.

I don't understand women (or men) who can take a persons unrelated actions, and relate it to themselves in such a way that they are hurt or distraught by it.

Your wife had issues with her body before you looked at porn and she'll have issues with her body even if you never look at it again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

Richie, you were kind enough to message me when I was going through a hard time and I just want to let you know I appreciate it. 

Now, from what you have described, your wife is EXTREMELY angry and resentful and mistrustful and she hates porn. Do you think you can hold yourself to the agreement that you made? If you think that what she wants is way too over the top, then TELL her. 

If you are committed to cutting out porn from your life, why do something that will trigger you? I understand that it wasn't actual pornography, but it seems kinda like swearing off alcohol then drinking non alcoholic beers. Like why even bother? 

I make no judgements about porn being right or wrong. I really couldn't care LESS about it, except when it interferes with MY nookie. But obviously your wife has some self esteem issues and she's taking a hit every time you seek out sexual material. In a perfect world, she'd say "who cares about those plastic porn girls. I'm real and and I'm hot." Alas, the world is not perfect.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

She claims our YouTube account is linked. I don't buy it. 
Annie I am committed. I made the promise to myself not my wife. If I fail it's on me. Call it a moment of weakness a bad judgement call.
My wife had a eating disorder before we even meet. I am now to blame for it coming back.She hates this about her body, that about her body. I really am not equipment to give her the support she needs. I am the type if you don't like something about your body...do something about it. I did all the wrong things for her. I bought the treadmill, a leg machine, I pay for the gym membership that she only went 3 times to. What she wants is for me to just listen....never to look at any images of other women. I failed her. Even last night she came to bed in lingerie and then complained how she hates her body. I told her I don't know how to respond to that....I don't see what she sees and her bringing those feelings into the bedroom takes the sexy time out of it. I am at a loss.


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## Lionlady (Sep 12, 2012)

Wow. I was going to say that your wife is a controlling *****. I don't usually understand why some women are so freaked out about porn.

But in this case it seems like your wife is aware that she has a mental problem (body dysmorphia, eating disorder) and you guys seem to be honest about it and talking about it. 

So, did you do anything wrong? I don't think so. And maybe the word isn't "wrong." But you did something hurtful to your wife (even if I think it's a little bat**** crazy). And you apparently were the one who said you wouldn't do it because you are trying to make her feel better. 

I assume she is seeking therapy for this problem? Because she should be. If she's going to dictate your masturbation habits, she should at least be held responsible for her own issues. 

But if she has your computer bugged? That's creepy and wrong. Really, you shouldn't have to not look at porn. Just maybe not rub it in her face.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

richie33 said:


> She claims our YouTube account is linked. I don't buy it.
> Annie I am committed. I made the promise to myself not my wife. If I fail it's on me. Call it a moment of weakness a bad judgement call.
> My wife had a eating disorder before we even meet. I am now to blame for it coming back.She hates this about her body, that about her body. I really am not equipment to give her the support she needs. I am the type if you don't like something about your body...do something about it. I did all the wrong things for her. I bought the treadmill, a leg machine, I pay for the gym membership that she only went 3 times to. What she wants is for me to just listen....never to look at any images of other women. I failed her. Even last night she came to bed in lingerie and then complained how she hates her body. I told her I don't know how to respond to that....I don't see what she sees and her bringing those feelings into the bedroom takes the sexy time out of it. I am at a loss.


The eating disorder definitely explains her need for control and the body issues. It makes for a perfect storm of craziness when you have a slip up. 

Remind her that your ONE misstep doesn't negate everything that you've done and the progress you've made. Tell her you need positive reinforcement and an "attaboy" every once in a while. 

I know her checking up on you makes you feel crappy and makes her even more paranoid, but she probably feels like she is operating with only half of the pertinent information. You KNOW when you mess up; she probably thinks you won't tell her when you do, so she feels the urge to spy and snoop. Hopefully, when she sees your commitment to the marriage, she won't NEED to do that.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Lionlady said:


> Wow. I was going to say that your wife is a controlling *****. I don't usually understand why some women are so freaked out about porn.
> 
> But in this case it seems like your wife is aware that she has a mental problem (body dysmorphia, eating disorder) and you guys seem to be honest about it and talking about it.
> 
> ...


No porn. I looked up a porn actress on YouTube. No nudity or sex. PG-13 at best.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Did she know who you looked up was a porn actress, or did she think it was a random woman?


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

She knew it was a porn actress. Two years ago she was going on my phone without my knowledge and saw I was looking at porn. I did look at this certain porn star...so she remembered her name. I can totally see why this bothers her. I am ashamed I did it.
My wife is a beautiful and intelligent woman. I don't only want to paint her as a bad woman cause she is far from it. But I am man who goes to work, comes home, does all the cleaning, helps with our sons. I am a good man, I just make stupid mistakes. I don't think I can change much more than I have the last few years. 
I find I am constantly under investigation. I have never cheated emotionally or physically. But I have turned to images in many periods of a sexless marriage. Any mistakes I make are magnified to huge proportions. I never have held her to the same standards. I don't check her phone or Internet history. I trust her. She has none for me. I don't think she ever will. Almost 14 years together and two beautiful boys later I can't see how this could go on.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

I will give you my POV, I don't have massive hang ups like your wife nor do I have an eating disorder, but I do think there is something wrong when a man says he will not do something and does it any way. Every time you break a promise, you take away any trust in you she has built up.

Also you say it wasn't porn, but we are so used to seeing hard core porn that we can't recognise porn any more, what you described sounds like porn and you admit you we're horny and obviously looked her up for some sexual gratification. So it has the same meaning as hard core porn.

You wife probably wants you to focus on her sexually, I know it's strange in this day and age, but it is doable, and I have known lots of men who do it. When they start to think of other women sexually, they divert their mind back to their wives. I don't know why it's seen as such a strange thing to do. 

Focusing on each other and fantasising about each other, can really help build trust and bond people. 

Good luck.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

I'm sorry but when a woman attempts to control my sexuality right down to my masturbation habits I'm done.

Why would you want to live like that?

You're just in for a lifetime of misery.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

LittleDeer I agree. I slipped up. but I am really trying.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

tacoma said:


> I'm sorry but when a woman attempts to control my sexuality right down to my masturbation habits I'm done.
> 
> Why would you want to live like that?
> 
> You're just in for a lifetime of misery.


She doesn't see what she is doing is controlling. I don't know how much longer I can.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

richie33 said:


> No porn. I looked up a porn actress on YouTube. No nudity or sex. PG-13 at best.


So what's next no Victoria's secret catalogs?

I have a feeling you can't win this one. She's got so many self esteem issues that she will find fault no matter what you do. 

What's the constant fighting about?


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

tacoma said:


> I'm sorry but when a woman attempts to control my sexuality right down to my masturbation habits I'm done.
> 
> Why would you want to live like that?
> 
> You're just in for a lifetime of misery.


That's the word, control


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

See, this is what happens when you have a spouse with a disorder. You have to be there for them and help them through stuff.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> See, this is what happens when you have a spouse with a disorder. You have to be there for them and help them through stuff.


But what about you through the process? Where do we factor in?


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Sorry Richie, she's over reacting, again. I would worry more about her monitoring you 24/7.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> So what's next no Victoria's secret catalogs?
> 
> I have a feeling you can't win this one. She's got so many self esteem issues that she will find fault no matter what you do.
> 
> What's the constant fighting about?


The constant fighting is she doesn't believe I love her. That I am here only because of the kids and the house. How can I love her and her body when I looked at those images.
Am I here because of the kids...YES. I am here because I am paying the mortgage.....YES. But I am also here cause I love her. But I can't flat out say its just for her. It's the 14 years. Its that I can't see only seeing my kids 50% of the time. I can't see losing my house. I can't see losing my best friend and wife. It's the whole package. The past two years have been a nightmare. I wish she could see what I see in her.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

richie33 said:


> The constant fighting is she doesn't believe I love her.


And sadly you can't make her believe this. It must come from inside. Has she felt this way for 14 years? Has she ever felt you loved her?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

richie33 said:


> But what about you through the process? Where do we factor in?


It's hard, for us. But we have to do the best we can. And yes, I speak from experience.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> And sadly you can't make her believe this. It must come from inside. Has she felt this way for 14 years? Has she ever felt you loved her?


She claims she never felt this way until she saw the things on my cell phone. I haven't done the greatest job of easing her fears. I have a lot of resentment of things she has done. Sexless marriage, putting school and work ahead of me for many years. But to her credit seeing the things on my phone woke her up to the things I was doing in place of no intimacy. But I have done so much changing over the past two years. But it's a wound that never fully heals. 
I agree that full transparency works in a marriage but this feels like I am being monitored.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> It's hard, for us. But we have to do the best we can. And yes, I speak from experience.


Matt I know your story. I have a son on the spectrum.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

richie33 said:


> I agree that full transparency works in a marriage but this feels like I am being monitored.


You are being monitored.

And if I've learned anything about men after being married for 21 years to my husband is that men need to be free.

There is transparency and there is monitoring. Two completely different things.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> You are being monitored.
> 
> And if I've learned anything about men after being married for 21 years to my husband is that men need to be free.
> 
> There is transparency and there is monitoring. Two completely different things.


I agree. Last two years have been really rough. You keep hearing how you are hurting someone and disappointing someone. But your running home to be with that person, you come home with a big smile but are turned away with the silent treatment and no affection. 
I may be no saint but I want nothing more for all this to stop. I want peace, I want to laugh again. This has held our marriage captive for too long. Am I at fault....yes but not 100%. I am held to standard I obviously can't succeed at.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

She reads this site. She knows what I am posting. She will not create a account. She will not post. I wish she had a girlfriend to turn to. Its just me. I am not equipped to handle this. I was raised in total dysfunctional family. But so did she. I watch my father being abused by my mother forever. I am very sensitive to arguing. I am very defensive cause I watched my father just broken by it. It's my greatest fear.


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## Anubis (Jul 12, 2011)

Mavash. said:


> And sadly you can't make her believe this. It must come from inside. Has she felt this way for 14 years? Has she ever felt you loved her?


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

This! If she's "flipped the bit" on you and has decided not tor respect, believe and trust you... there's not a damn thing you can do to change it.

Now before you go "Wait a minute! I can do all these things to show her...".... yes, you can. You can do all sorts of things. But you can't make her think something she doesn't choose to. That's an important distinction. I learned it the hard way with my ex-wife. And there may be factors that work against her changing her views on you, despite all that you do to show her why she should. Doing so can mean giving up a sense of superiority or control, and her comfort zone may be more about keeping on edge on edge and being reactionary to her than trusting you and being a real partner.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

Richie, tell her she came pm me if she'd like. I understand her struggle. I don't think she's doing this out of spite, but hurt and confusion and anger.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> See, this is what happens when you have a spouse with a disorder. You have to be there for them and help them through stuff.


I'm sorry Matt but this is my life and I wouldn't waste it attempting to mollify an inherently unhappy woman with no end in sight.

If Richie wasn't such a doormat she wouldn't be dissing him like this because she'd know she would lose him.

People treat us the way we allow them to.


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## eyuop (Apr 7, 2013)

richie33 said:


> She reads this site. She knows what I am posting. She will not create a account. She will not post. I wish she had a girlfriend to turn to. Its just me. I am not equipped to handle this. I was raised in total dysfunctional family. But so did she. I watch my father being abused by my mother forever. I am very sensitive to arguing. I am very defensive cause I watched my father just broken by it. It's my greatest fear.


I grew up in a dysfunctional home, as well. I was the oldest of 7 children. We were poor, had alcoholic father with constant affairs and infidelity. I remember my mom doing a lot of crying, dad not coming home for days, divorced parents when I was a teen, dad terminally ill -- you get the picture. Trailer trash at its finest.

I discovered porn as a young teen and used it to medicate a lot of my pain and wounds. As the years passed I had a lot of excuses for not really taking responsibility for my own life, and porn was one of my "retreats" that kept me in that "victim" mentality.

I, like you, wasn't dealt the greatest hand. Mostly 2's and 3's really. However, I need to tell you that the biggest change for me was finding God. Call it a crutch, call it whatever, but I was searching for love and I found love in the words of Jesus in the book of John in the Bible (and later in the other books as I continued to read). I know being a Christian and struggling with porn isn't talked about a lot, but that was who I was.

I have made a ton of excuses in my lifetime. But it wasn't until I seriously asked God to help me lay aside excuses and take responsibility for my life despite being a dealt a poor hand that things truly began to change. I studied in earnest, worked my way through school (my parents didn't have any money to help me, although my grandmother helped some) and graduated early from both high school and college. I went on to meet a beautiful woman, marry her, and have two beautiful daughters. Been happily married now for 17 years. We are out of debt, have money in savings, and we are working together toward some pretty awesome goals in life (having to do with ministry).

The one last monster I've not been able to completely slay was masturbating sometimes to porn. Internet porn was just like a quick crack-cocaine-like hit for me. It didn't get in the way of our sex life (her libido is a lot lower than mine and she has all the sex she ever wants and then some). However, it did continue to rob me of some other feelings of intimacy that I needed to have directed toward my wife. 

I still have a tendency to make excuses for myself and not take responsibility for my actions/life. Much of this was learned behavior from simply living in a dysfunctional home. But some of it has just been my own response to this -- wanting to hide, make excuses, take the easier way out. Porn fit right into this so well -- just like chocolate and ice cream. That's why I have fought it (sometimes winning for a year or more, only to eventually make an excuse for it to come back into my life again).

I haven't told my wife, but she isn't stupid. She is very non-confrontational and might have discovered it in the past and just not told me yet. But I'm serious about getting it completely out of my life now. I did the same thing you did, so I have to laugh. I went to Victoria's Secret's website to do some shopping for her -- not the best idea, really. You and I are guys, so you totally understand the whole, "Appreciating beauty vs. lusting after women" thing. And I really was honestly just appreciating the beautiful women I saw, and it wasn't a sexual thing at all (didn't get turned on or anything like that). However, let me just say that my wife wasn't thrilled when she visited the site and saw the pages I was browsing to shop for her. She's beautiful, but she has also turned 40 -- not 19 and airbrushed. She felt a little insecure about herself and it took some convincing her that she was all I had eyes for.

Anyway, I hear you using a lot of the same sort of excuses I've used, and going through a lot of the same reasoning and justification processes. Your wife needs to know -- really know -- that she is your princess and that you only have eyes for her. She is insecure, yes... but she still needs to know. She is monitoring you, and that is a bit disconcerting to me and many here. But she is doing this for a reason. She wants you to pursue only her. Every time you pursue a fantasy, she feels rejected and more insecure.

She is never going to get how porn makes you feel. She isn't going to get the whole "drug rush" thing it does in your brain. She isn't going to get how men compartmentalize porn or sexy images in a box called "fantasy", and how that box can be kept separate from your real sex life. She can't understand it when a guy says, "but this is just random images of women -- it is just fantasy and has nothing to do you, your looks, my love for you, etc." She sees your life and all the things you do as integrated with hers. When you look at a picture of a porn star (naked or not) she can't help but think that she is somehow not as attractive enough for you and compare herself to that women.

Some women do understand this a bit better. I know my wife doesn't and this is why I'm very reluctant to tell her about my past struggles with porn (the last time being a little over 2 month ago). But understand it or not, I came to the conclusion that my life would be honestly way better if I could kick porn out of it for good and also do way more to take responsibility for my life, my behavior and our future together. I'm tired of excuse. I'm tired of falling back into "default mode", wanking and feeling sorry for myself when things aren't going the way I want them to. It's time to really, truly man up and take responsibility -- and since I've been set to do this I've been so much more "in control" of my life than I ever have been.

Long, rambling, but hopefully helpful.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

My wifee doesn't even like it when I see attractive women on TV and she usually changes the channel!!!

I try to minimize porn altogether but there are times, like this weekend, I am really in the mood and getting it out of my system 1 - 2x each day. It's like I repress myself for her LD and then it gets too much and BAM, it hits me hard.......if she only was in the mood 3 - 4x each and every week at minimum porn would be none existent for me.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

To Richies wife, I've been in your shoes being scare of my husband Leaving me . Trying to be a step ahead to prevent it. It is exuasting and it only pushes your husband away. I am in therapy for other issue but it explained my fear of abandonment. It was due to my childhood my mom would get mad and pretend to leave, I would believe she did and it was horrible. The anxiety I felt I could still feel it when I remember. You are misplacing your fears. Even if he is not perfect what I have read shows a fustrated husband who loves you. But, you are driving him crazy. You like me have a child with special needs and I know how hard it is, you need to work together. My husband and I swore not to dwell on the little things because we have bigger fish to fry. We need to help our son develop as best we can and family drama does not help. Children with autism are sensitive and can tell that something is wrong. If for any reason you need to get help do it at least for your childen. I know it's hard I been there, but a person can handle only an amount of abuse and it is abusive to be so controlling. I am not judging you I was you. 

This is no way to live, it is better to enjoy your life and live the moment than to be killing your self with what ifs. Please work together you can be happy and life is hard enough why not make a strong team so that he can catch you when you fall and vice versa. My husband kicks me Out of the house when I am over whelmed he send me shopping to the mall and I do the same I send him out to ride his motorcyle. This keeps the peace, we look out for eachothers wellness and it bring us closer . You have a man who loves you, if he did not be would have left years ago. Please listen to me, I am much happier and so is my family, I have learned that I can only control my behavior I can only change myself. The rest is a gamble, you have a family and a husband who loves you. He has poured his heart and soul here to ask for help. Enjoy life, tomorrow is not guaranteed to anyone and you are wasting precious time on stupid things. The people on YouTube are not going to track him down and take him away. 
Open your eyes and see what you have and what you are missing.
I wish someone would have helped me sooner which is why I am writing this.
I will stop now, if you need to contact me I am open to you doing so.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

eyuop if you feel so strongly about this why not tell your wife? 
Secrets crush marriages also.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Thank you mablenc. My son is young but he knows something wrong. It's the last thing I want is to do is hurt him or his brother.
Tacoma is right I have been way too passive in this marriage. I am not someone who dwells on things. I let my needs and wants take a backseat, the typical nice guy. But underneath I am resentful and angry at things. I always try and look at the bigger picture...what's best for my kids, my marriage. I don't look at what's best for me. I have to start changing my priorities.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

richie33 said:


> Thank you mablenc. My son is young but he knows something wrong. It's the last thing I want is to do is hurt him or his brother.
> Tacoma is right I have been way too passive in this marriage. I am not someone who dwells on things. I let my needs and wants take a backseat, the typical nice guy. But underneath I am resentful and angry at things. I always try and look at the bigger picture...what's best for my kids, my marriage. I don't look at what's best for me. I have to start changing my priorities.


That's another thing I learned this past year, it took a major emotional meltdown for me to address my needs. It was horrible but like a shaken can of coke out came years of pressure. You can not be the awesome dad and husband by not taking care yourself. And as parents with children with special needs we need to live as long as possible. Hence why I am always focusing on being a team in the marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Is she doing anything at all to address her issues?

IC?

Reading?

Or, is she just content to blame you for everything that makes her feel bad?

Being in a relationship with a person having a difficult emotional time, disordered or not, is difficult to say the least. I'm starting to see (correctly?) that if I forfeit my needs and healthy boundaries, then there will be nothing left of me to hold her together anyways. She, and us, will only survive to find better days if I insist on keeping my spirit alive.

It is normal and human to seek release through masturbation. I have not always felt this way, and in fact have felt much shame at times.

For me, porn is simply just an aid towards that end. It's not an obsession. It helps me keep my spirits up during the long dry spells. I didn't hear anything that suggests it is anything dark and unhealthy for you.

I've read about monitoring spouses, have assisted folks in doing so, and have even monitored mine. I have felt justified, when there is suspicion of cheating. I don't feel like that is what motivates your wife here. Masturbation is not cheating. Did I miss something?

So far the only "wrong" thing I hear you saying you have done is let her insecurities weigh too much on your mind, leading you to promise away even the tiniest bit of pleasure a person can provide him/herself: that which we call masturbation.

From what I read, it sounds like this issue is hers to own and fix, if you are willing and able to say to her that you refuse to let her control your masturbation by controlling what images you view.

I fear if you don't assert that boundary, and if you don't also require her to be demonstrably working on her issues, someday you'll see no solution is possible anymore, as there is too little of you left.

Just my opinion.


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## notmarriedyet (Nov 10, 2012)

Sorry that your having a hard time. 

I don't agree with her monitoring your phone or web use age, I think it's way too controlling. 

I might add a little insight tho strictly from my own experience in a previous relationship, and as a woman I suppose. ....

I have never taken issue when my boyfriend looked at and/or masturbated with or without porn. However, when he began a fixation on one star in particular it was a bit offensive to me. I guess it was because he fancied HER, and it was less about the porn, more about that particular woman. 

I didn't appreciate it, not sure if that might be part if what bothers her (besides the other issues she has)

Best of luck to you and your family. I suffer from emotional problems myself and its tough to admit as well as work on. Kudos to you for being so supportive!


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

That's the thing....I am not really being supportive to her cause I still do these things. I try to explain to her last night we had a good time but 12 hours later I can still feel horny. That by me looking at something on YouTube is not about her. That it doesn't deminish what we did the night before. That it's her I want when she gets home. None of that matters. I lash out at her over the phone cause I feel she is investigating me even at work. I say things I regret, I can't take back. Out of anger and mostly frustration cause I don't have the tools to really fix the problem. 
Last month I sat her down and said to her enough with the phone. I don't want to hear about what you see on my phone. I straight told there will be things you will not like. That I will look at things I will deem ok. Did I cross the line typing a porn stars name on YouTube....yes but it's not something that couldn't be addressed and handled correctly. But instead it opens the fresh wounds and we are back to being at each others throats.
I wish I could sit here and say I will never look at certain images or videos but I won't. I told her this last month. At the end of day I got to ake myself happy and a little bit of me dies everyday over this. Life is too short. FTW.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

richie33 said:


> That's the thing....I am not really being supportive to her cause I still do these things.


I think you are wrong about something here, something subtle but crucial, and to help your wife you need to understand how this might be.

1) What she is demanding from you is not something you can give, without chipping away at your soul, bit by bit, until nothing healthy in you remains.

2) If you perfectly gave her "abstinence" from your self, and shielded your eyes from beauty around you, even never looking at an attractive image or whatever she demands next -- do you think that her inner issues are going to spontaneously heal? I don't.

3) By failing to assert your right to self-pleasure, and letting her see your guilty conscious in these instances where you have "failed", you are perpetuating the myth that you are the problem here, and not her insecurities and low self-esteem or whatever inside her that defeats her.

4) Thus convinced, perhaps self-righteously so, she will never do any work on herself. (Has she done ANY so far?)

Giving in to unreasonable demands that are impossible to supply without losing yourself is NOT being supportive.

IMHO, from what little I have read here in this thread. YMMV.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

It's your wife's responsibility to heal herself from her body issues. Not yours. Every time you reassure her, it's just feeding her anxiety and she'll need more and more frequent fixes to keep her stable.

You can't help her. You need to make her getting proper help for her issues a condition for you staying in the marriage. Your kids are being affected, there are plenty of boys out there with eating disorders. 

You haven't looked at porn for two years, and it hasn't helped her feel better about her body. This is not under your control.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Lyris said:


> It's your wife's responsibility to heal herself from her body issues. Not yours. Every time you reassure her, it's just feeding her anxiety and she'll need more and more frequent fixes to keep her stable.
> 
> You can't help her. You need to make her getting proper help for her issues a condition for you staying in the marriage. Your kids are being affected, there are plenty of boys out there with eating disorders.
> 
> You haven't looked at porn for two years, and it hasn't helped her feel better about her body. This is not under your control.


:iagree: I agree, this advice is very logical, as always, another sensible piece from Mrs. Lyris :smthumbup:


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

PieceOfSky said:


> I think you are wrong about something here, something subtle but crucial, and to help your wife you need to understand how this might be.
> 
> 1) What she is demanding from you is not something you can give, without chipping away at your soul, bit by bit, until nothing healthy in you remains.
> 
> ...


Very well said. This feels like a roller coaster ride but more down than ups. It always feels like I am building her up one minute and the next tearing her down. We both went to MC and she went to IC. I can't tell you what was said in IC. I got bits and pieces. From what I got the therapists in both said stop with the monitoring it's not healthy, get a hobby and write your feelings down. She hasn't done any of those. I really care for this woman and feel I owe her to fix this. But more and more I see I can't fix it. I lose something about myself more and more. I know what I have to do. Need to start doing things for myself again. Get back to the gym, hang out with friends more but this dysfunction and my need to be the nice guy has me running back home. Right back to the arguing and the fighting. This cycle has to break. I almost have to leave for it to get better.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Lyris said:


> It's your wife's responsibility to heal herself from her body issues. Not yours. Every time you reassure her, it's just feeding her anxiety and she'll need more and more frequent fixes to keep her stable.
> 
> You can't help her. You need to make her getting proper help for her issues a condition for you staying in the marriage. Your kids are being affected, there are plenty of boys out there with eating disorders.
> 
> You haven't looked at porn for two years, and it hasn't helped her feel better about her body. This is not under your control.


I have developed some pretty bad anxiety myself over this. It kept feeling like I was having a heart attack a bunch of times over the past two years. I went to the doctors a few times before I realized that it was anxiety.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

I didn't read the whole thread....but she put something on your phone? SO NOT COOL!!! I would have a HUGE issue with that in and of itself. Why would you tolerate that? And if you suspected it was there and still looked up the woman....surely you knew you would get caught? Were you trying to force her to admit that she was bugging your phone?

Isn't that some kind of illegal?

Just way beyond the pale, IMO.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

I post videos of my boys being boys on YouTube so I opened a account. She claims to have put the same account on her phone, so whatever I look at she can see also. A few months ago she knew I looked at something from a totally different website before I even walked in the door. Leads me to believe she has some type of device.
I can't say I looked at anything just to get a rise out of her. I looked out of pure stupidity. 
This a woman in the past who stay at work to all hours of the night, me calling her to come home. I never looked at her phone or computer. I trust her. But she always tells me " well that's you". 
I don't think she is doing anything illegal. But I tell she is trying to treat me like I am her child. It's not cool anymore.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

What sort of phone do you have?

Please read up on "broken heart syndrome" and/or see a cardiologist. It's real, and isn't necessarily harmless. http://www.m.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/features/broken-heart-syndrome-stress-cardiomyopathy

Was she aware of the depth of anxiety and the heart-attack-like symptoms. Does she (or can she) see that you are hurting too?

In the past, did you have some sort of 24/7 obsession or "addiction" to porn that she is still reacting too? Or, is it just an occasional self-relief?


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

It's not wrong. There may just be to big a difference between your sex rank and hers to overcome.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

richie33:

You need to READ (or re-read) "No More Mr. Nice Guy" ...TODAY! You KNOW you have 'nice guy' syndrome, you know your Dad modeled 'nice guy' syndrome...you know where it led him!

You do NOT need a Kindle/Nook, *you can download a FREE Kindle App for PC from amazon.com* NOW. You can then buy the ebook and start reading it TODAY.

Do NOT read the book as fast as you can figuring you will get to the pertinent information just that much quicker! Read each chapter slowly, thoroughly understanding EACH CONCEPT before you move on to the next.

If you already OWN the book and already read it, I would suggest you READ IT AGAIN....slowly and analytically. Use a highlighter, make notes, make it work FOR YOU!

Your wife has BODY ISSUES. Unresolved body issues. She is not dealing with them properly! Yet she expects YOU to MAGICALLY make her feel better about herself and her life?!? NEVER GONNA HAPPEN.

You are a full-grown man. You are living in a basically sexless marriage. You do not have sex anywhere NEARLY often enough to suit YOU! You are NOT denying your wife sex. ...So, if YOU want to look at a woman in her lingerie OR YOU want to look at porn OR YOU want to 'be the master of your domain' (with or without porn), THAT IS YOUR RIGHT AS A FULL GROWN MAN who is NOT substituting OTHER women for his wife sexually. She has NO ROOM to bytch!

She is making HERSELF sick.
She is making HERSELF crazy with fear/jealousy/etc.
She is taking THE REST OF YOU down with her.

When are YOU going to step up and take control of this situation in a healthy manner? If you're waiting on HER....it's gonna be a helluva LONG WAIT. Meanwhile, your boys are watching and learning (3rd generation doormats-in-the-making?)


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

richie33 said:


> I post videos of my boys being boys on YouTube so I opened a account. She claims to have put the same account on her phone, so whatever I look at she can see also. A few months ago she knew I looked at something from a totally different website before I even walked in the door. Leads me to believe she has some type of device.
> I can't say I looked at anything just to get a rise out of her. I looked out of pure stupidity.
> This a woman in the past who stay at work to all hours of the night, me calling her to come home. I never looked at her phone or computer. I trust her. But she always tells me " well that's you".
> I don't think she is doing anything illegal. But I tell she is trying to treat me like I am her child. It's not cool anymore.


If she knows more than she should know about your online habits, then she likely has some sort of monitoring program on your phone or computer. The story about the Youtube account is plausible, but not probable. She'd have to be monitoring the account in real time to know when you looked the woman up, and she called you on it right away, correct? So she tipped her hand there. She has knowledge of your doings that she shouldn't have. 

She sounds desperately insecure and broken. And her issues are not something that you can fix. She needs professional help to overcome such deep seated hatred of her own body. You can support her in her journey to get well, but you can't make her well on your own.


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## SalvageMyMarriage (Apr 6, 2013)

Talk to your wife. Tell her how you feel like you are being investigated constantly. Try to get some compromise on your viewing habits. Think it is important to let her know you have your needs as well.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

I have the Samsung Nexxus. I am going to get rid of it today and get a basic flip phone. She's a RN I have told her over and over about my anxiety.
I can't sit here and say I didn't look at porn before I met my wife. I did and I continued to look at porn throughout except the last couple. I have made a great change but I can't ever say I would never look again.
So how did she find out??? She was pregnant with our second child. We just had our first in September of 2010 and we got pregnant again that same December. In two years we had sex twice both resulting in my children. She didn't feel like being initimate either pregnancy. So instead of being honest and telling her if we aren't going to have sex this is what I will turn to. But while being 3 months pregnant every night she would go on my phone and see what I looked up. I never knew. She never said a word until our second son was a month or so old. 
Did I surrender right away...no. Did I start deleting my history...putting passwords on my phone...yes. It made it worse. But she never stopped monitoring me. It lead to some very nasty fights. I would say I was using porn as a self relief. She sees it differently. I never turned my wife down for sex or chose porn over a willing partner. The thing is I didn't have a willing partner.
I ask her now what she thinks her sex drive is. She says medium but in the same breath she would be content once a week. I want some type of intimacy every other day. My drive hasn't change much over the years. I am still as healthy in the regard at 40 as I was at the time we married.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> richie33:
> 
> You need to READ (or re-read) "No More Mr. Nice Guy" ...TODAY! You KNOW you have 'nice guy' syndrome, you know your Dad modeled 'nice guy' syndrome...you know where it led him!
> 
> ...


You hit the nail Slowly. I bought the book. I read it and said "Wow that's me". But I flew through it. I didn't work the steps. I went back to the old me very quick. Part of my nature I can fix this. I obviously know I can't. It's really hard hearing that I am doing the same thing to my sons what my father did to me and my siblings but your absolutely right. I am being a poor role model.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Last week I told her I want out of the marriage. The following week I stopped worrying about her feelings. I did things I wanted to do. I stopped telling her I loved her. Stop doing the usual things. Took care of the boys but didn't pay attention to her. It really affected her. I hate to say it but gave her a taste of her own medicine. She didn't like. So we go back to talking and trying things for our marriage. We are back to square one.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Getting a new phone is only going to make her suspicions greater. The phone is not the problem. Don't worry about what she's looking at on your end. If you have nothing to hide...don't run. Be the man she wants you to be. Tell her your doing nothing wrong. You are the man in this relationship not her right? Getting a new phone makes you look weak. Stop letting her fears control your marriage. Don't run from problems, face them with conviction. Be the leader.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> Getting a new phone is only going to make her suspicions greater. The phone is not the problem. Don't worry about what she's looking at on your end. If you have nothing to hide...don't run. Be the man she wants you to be. Tell her your doing nothing wrong. You are the man in this relationship not her right? Getting a new phone makes you look weak. Stop letting her fears control your marriage. Don't run from problems, face them with conviction. Be the leader.


Your right MrBrains I am grasping at straws. I am at the point I don't want to hear about it anymore and have been for sometime.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

If your consience is clear, then tell her you are sorry she is so upset, that you feel you have done nothing wrong, and was not jerking off to porn... That's it.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Don't get a new phone. Let her keep monitoring you. Use it as you wish, and don't modify your behavior based on her hysterical ranting.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Stand up to her. Tell her you are an adult and as such have every right in the world to do whatever the heck you want. If she doesn't like it, she can go pound sand. You are not breaking your marriage vows so she has nothing to complain about. Tell her that SHE is the issue in the marriage, not you and that SHE needs to fix herself and not blame shift onto you. It's for her own good, and that of you and your children. She will be a miserable person until she gets her issues resolved and that will just make everyone else miserable too.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

richie33 said:


> Your right MrBrains I am grasping at straws. I am at the point I don't want to hear about it anymore and have been for sometime.


I can't say it enough here...read " no more mr nice guy" and "married man sex life primer" If you can't fix what you have now you can make sure you get exactly what you need next time.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

richie33 said:


> I have the Samsung Nexxus. I am going to get rid of it today and get a basic flip phone. She's a RN I have told her over and over about my anxiety.
> I can't sit here and say I didn't look at porn before I met my wife. I did and I continued to look at porn throughout except the last couple. I have made a great change but I can't ever say I would never look again.
> So how did she find out??? She was pregnant with our second child. We just had our first in September of 2010 and we got pregnant again that same December. In two years we had sex twice both resulting in my children. She didn't feel like being initimate either pregnancy. So instead of being honest and telling her if we aren't going to have sex this is what I will turn to. But while being 3 months pregnant every night she would go on my phone and see what I looked up. I never knew. She never said a word until our second son was a month or so old.
> Did I surrender right away...no. Did I start deleting my history...putting passwords on my phone...yes. It made it worse. But she never stopped monitoring me. It lead to some very nasty fights. I would say I was using porn as a self relief. She sees it differently. I never turned my wife down for sex or chose porn over a willing partner. The thing is I didn't have a willing partner.
> I ask her now what she thinks her sex drive is. She says medium but in the same breath she would be content once a week. I want some type of intimacy every other day. My drive hasn't change much over the years. I am still as healthy in the regard at 40 as I was at the time we married.


IMHO, she is using this, perhaps completely subconsciously, to avoid the stress of confronting HER issues. 

IMHO, yes, it would have been better to be direct about your needs and likely behavior while she was "unavailable" to you, but that's not a capital offense, nor should it yield you a life sentence in solitary confinement. It is what it is, you can admit your sorrow that it hurt her (you probably have already), but you can stand firm that plucking your eyes out and cutting off your right (left?) hand isn't going to fix the real problem here.

IMHO, you owe it to yourself to discover just what surveilence you have been under. The Nexus, being an Android phone, makes it quite easy to have difficult-to-detect spy software. I would find a tool to help you expose what is running on your phone. My first google search led me to this:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.antispycell.free&hl=en

Offhand, it looks like it might be good.

IMHO, if you give in by switching to a flip phone, that is not helpful.

IMHO, if you continue to let her monitor, that is not helpful either.

It is conceivable that taking your privacy back would be helpful, but I am out of my league here -- it sounds like she has a serious body-image disorder and self-esteem issues. I vaguely recall you saying something that made me think she has or has had an eating disorder. Has she? In any case, as big a problem as this has been FOR HER, she needs to get professional help, as in IC, not MC, IMHO. If she is not willing to do that, what else can you do for her, besides castrate yourself? (I don't mean to be harsh, or mean, or rude...but, that last phrase is sadly an honest thought that came out of my ramblin' head.)


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Piece don't worry I say the same thing to her. I am going to check that link. If I find without a doubt she put something on my phone after asking to come clean for the longest time I will be serving her divorce papers. No arguing, no fighting, it's over.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

richie33 said:


> Piece don't worry I say the same thing to her. I am going to check that link. If I find without a doubt she put something on my phone after asking to come clean for the longest time I will be serving her divorce papers. No arguing, no fighting, it's over.


Chill... It's not a big deal. Don't make it one. Be the man and go about your bees wax.
There is nothing wrong with her knowing what you do. Unless your doing something you should not be doing. You are married. You are not single separate people. Just man up say" there's nothing wrong with what I did and track me if you like I'm going to be the man I am."
Tell you love her and your a man and men are inclined to look at pretty women. It's not a reflection of who she is.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> Chill... It's not a big deal. Don't make it one. Be the man and go about your bees wax.
> There is nothing wrong with her knowing what you do. Unless your doing something you should not be doing. You are married. You are not single separate people. Just man up say" there's nothing wrong with what I did and track me if you like I'm going to be the man I am."
> Tell you love her and your a man and men are inclined to look at pretty women. It's not a reflection of who she is.


I have tried that route. It gets nowhere. It's a personal attack on her when sees anything she deems hurtful. I have point blank told her there would be things she will she won't like at it's for her deal with it. She won't say certain things but she will shut down and then her self esteem goes to hell. Before Saturday night we weren't intimate for 11 days. 
The constant monitoring is not for me anymore. She gets outraged when I get feed up and put a lock on my phone. It's like she needs to see anything and everything. It's not healthy.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

If she is monitoring your phone or computer, is she monitoring what you post here?


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

> I am grasping at straws. I am at the point I don't want to hear about it anymore


Then you simply say, "(wife's name), I am NOT discussing this with you again. My looking at pictures does NOT take away ONE SINGLE bit of sexual time or sexual attention FROM YOU. It is the way *I* must cope with my need for more sexual attention than I am receiving. If YOU CHOOSE to view this as a reflection on YOUR BODY, *THAT* is YOUR choice. YOUR OBSESSIONS are just that, YOURS. 

I will NOT be a hostage to your insecurity about my viewing or phone usage any more. Check up all you like, if you feel you must, but WE will NOT be discussing this again."

Next time she brings it up, interrupt her and say "We are NOT discussing this." And walk away. Repeat VERBATIM as needed.

And don't beat yourself up about your sons; looks like your oldest one is NOT EVEN 2.5yo! You have PLENTY OF TIME to get it right and model HEALTHY BEHAVIOR for him (either with his mother, or moving on into a healthy relationship in the future...after YOU get yourself well.)

HANG TOUGH!


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

PieceOfSky said:


> If she is monitoring your phone or computer, is she monitoring what you post here?


She knows I am on here. She knows what I post 100%. I have had things thrown in my face about my posts.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

MrBrains said:


> There is nothing wrong with her knowing what you do. Unless your doing something you should not be doing."


This is not a case where she has suspicions he is being unfaithful, and where an agreement of full transparency would help get to the facts. She has the facts, and she doesn't like them. And, that seems to be wrapped up in her own issues, not anything inherently wrong with what he has done.

If he rescinds his apparent currently-in-effect agreement to deprive himself of what he needs, and if he makes clear that her monitoring is a violation of boundaries he requires from this point forward, then any monitoring she subsequently does IS wrong. If she monitored anyways, and then either silently or loudly suffered over it, and made him suffer for it too, then it's going to destroy the relationship.

Her monitoring is harmful to her. She is using it as an excuse to NOT solve HER issues. It's plausible that letting her continue to monitor is actually enabling her body-image and self-esteem issues to continue and get reinforced.

That said, if OP finds definitively she has been monitoring, against his explicit requests, I'd rather see him use this new cold hard fact as leverage to give her one final choice: show me you are working hard to fix this issue of YOURs, or expect me to file in XXXX days.

BUT, OP, this is none of my business, and I certainly don't have the facts here. Please don't let my opinions have any unjustified sway.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

As per cheating, EA or PA never, ever, ever happened. I would end my marriage before that would ever happen.
My wife is solid in that aspect also. Never once I have questioned that.
Someone wrote this awhile back to someone else and it really hit me. "put a spouse on a pedastel but feed him crap and expect him to like it" it hit a nerve. I think my wife thought I was this perfect, flawless man. I never wanted that title and I have never looked at her as perfect. I wouldn't expect it. Lots of resentment has built up.
She saw these things on my phone while pregnant and she hasn't been the same. She is a beautiful, smart woman but something happened to her in those months. I truly believe our marriage ended back then.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

richie33 said:


> She saw these things on my phone while pregnant and she hasn't been the same. She is a beautiful, smart woman but something happened to her in those months. I truly believe our marriage ended back then.


The tragedy for you, your children, and, perhaps especially for her, it does not have to be this way.

If she were to ask her friends, her mother, her sisters, her coworkers, her counselors, or complete strangers this question:

"When I was pregnant, and perhaps while my husband was having to go a long time without any intimacy from me, I discovered he had viewed images of other women, probably even relieving himself alone. Does that mean he doesn't love me? Does that mean he doesn't think I'm the most beautiful person in the world? Does that mean he wants to be with them, in that way, instead of me? Or even in addition to me?"

I am fairly confident almost everyone objective would say: NO!

If you are at all like me, you likely longed daily and nightly to be intimate with HER, not because she was convenient, not because long ago you took your vows, but precisely because in every day and every way you hunger and crave to be connected with HER. And, after awhile, the loneliness just hurts so much, you turned to a minor not all that satisfying substitute called fantasy. And you felt bad about it. Even before she found out. And felt even worse when she did find out -- not because you got caught, but because she was hurt by it. And, so you did the best you could, accepted her terms for a year, and suppressed your needs as a man, and denied yourself any sort of mental escape, until you couldn't take that anymore. And she was there ready, with her surveillance, desperate to prove what all those people mentioned above would told her she was wrong about.

She never dealt with the initial hurt, the discovery while she was pregnant. It is stored in her mind, and has become toxic to her and your health. It is destroying your children's home life.

Modern psychology has ways to deal with these unresolved emotions. For the first time in my life, a couple of weeks ago, my therapist did my first visualization that let me release such a toxic emotion that had haunted me for years. I think I'm finally starting to deal more healthily with present day realities.

The tragedy is, she is suffering. And, she does not have to suffer.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Richie, your here so you must want to be educated about how to fix it. Do some real education and read the books. You will get much more than what this forum can offer. But don't give up.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

BTW I found my wife going through all my messages and texts on my phone 3 weeks ago. I loved it. She can't understand this guy she's married to. He's just like a confident man she used to date...(old me). She can't stop wanting me again.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> Stand up to her. Tell her you are an adult and as such have every right in the world to do whatever the heck you want. If she doesn't like it, she can go pound sand. You are not breaking your marriage vows so she has nothing to complain about. Tell her that SHE is the issue in the marriage, not you and that SHE needs to fix herself and not blame shift onto you. It's for her own good, and that of you and your children. She will be a miserable person until she gets her issues resolved and that will just make everyone else miserable too.


:iagree: Mrs. Lake and Mrs. SGW gave good advices in this thread... coming from the ladies, it's worth serious considerations, Mr. OP.


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

richie33 said:


> She claims she never felt this way until she saw the things on my cell phone.


But she's had eating disorders for years before you were married? So it's obvious she did feel insecure before she saw anything on your cell phone. Insecure to the point where she has a mental illness.

Let's face it - you could move to Saudi Arabia where porn is illegal and women cover themselves from head to toe, and she will still have these insecurities. The problem is not her body, it's in her mind. 





richie33 said:


> A few months ago she knew I looked at something from a totally different website before I even walked in the door. Leads me to believe she has some type of device.


Is she tech-savvy enough to do that? Maybe she is simply looking up your phone usage online. I can log into my account online anytime, and see all my data (internet) usage and get some information on what web sites I went to.

BTW, I wouldn't trade a Samsung Nexus III for a flip phone. That's like trading a Porsche for a Hyundai!


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

I wouldn't think she is that tech savy. But she knows way too much. If she is looking at my online usage
she would know that I am not looking at porn and would be happy.
I am not going to get rid of my smartphone. This is her problem. I am done making it mine.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

richie33 said:


> Piece don't worry I say the same thing to her. I am going to check that link. If I find without a doubt she put something on my phone after asking to come clean for the longest time I will be serving her divorce papers. No arguing, no fighting, it's over.


Richie,

Just go into settings and do a factory reset on the phone.
It will wipe it clean right down to the original factory settings.

Then download the apps you want back onto the phone from your Play store account
Sign into Google services on the phone all your contacts and such will sync to it.
change your Google password.

Once all that has been done your phone will be clean.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

richie33 said:


> I try to explain to her last night we had a good time but 12 hours later I can still feel horny. That by me looking at something on YouTube is not about her. That it doesn't deminish what we did the night before. That it's her I want when she gets home.


I don't know if this is helpful at all, but I just wanted to point out that these reassurances aren't at all reassuring. When you say you are still horny after sex, she probably hears that the sex wasn't good enough. When you say "it's not about her", well she knows that already. In fact, in her mind, that's probably part of the problem.

So for her, it likely does diminish the night before. And so, your follow-up reassurance that you still want her sounds like a hollow prize because she knows that it isn't enough, and may wonder if it will ever be enough, given that you've also made it clear that you will still be supplementing elsewhere.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to justify this or say that you haven't already put in a great deal of effort and care in improving your relationship. And clearly there are deep-seated issues feeding her attitudes that only she can tackle.

I'm only trying to say that I think you'll be in a better position to help her if you at least call it what it is. Wanting/needing sexual outlets that literally have nothing to do with her, do not include her, and possibly never will.

But instead of the in-your-face approach advocated by some of the other posters here, I'd suggest that you try focussing more on ways that she does deliver, and what she does offer. The carrot, instead of the stick.

We cannot be everything to our partners, but dwelling on that fact only leads to misery. Shifting the focus onto what we are and can be is a more productive approach, IMHO


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

tacoma said:


> Richie,
> 
> Just go into settings and do a factory reset on the phone.
> It will wipe it clean right down to the original factory settings.


The monitoring is unhealthy, no doubt about it. But hiding is also unhealthy, and will only serve to further feed her mistrust and addiction to monitoring.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Always I understand your point. There are things i say to my wife that come out wrong. I don't explain myself all that well. But in the end where do I end up if I stick around and my wife never gets healthy? This has been on 2 years. Worst two years of my life. 
As per sex the night before, it was 11 days between intimacy, I will say I have a high drive, being still sexually turned on is not a attack on my wife.
Call it monitoring, call it controlling.....I call it unhealthy. I am done feeding it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

always_alone said:


> The monitoring is unhealthy, no doubt about it. But hiding is also unhealthy, and will only serve to further feed her mistrust and addiction to monitoring.



richie wanted the monitoring to stop and considering his wife is out of bounds in her attitude I figure I can save him the hassle of getting a new phone.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

People say they want honesty but they don't really. People say they trust you but they don't.

In a perfect world we'd all be completely honest but in reality there would be hell to pay if we did that.

This is a no win situation. If he tells her the truth he's in trouble. If he hides it he's in trouble. What's he supposed to do?


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> People say they want honesty but they don't really. People say they trust you but they don't.
> 
> In a perfect world we'd all be completely honest but in reality there would be hell to pay if we did that.
> 
> This is a no win situation. If he tells her the truth he's in trouble. If he hides it he's in trouble. What's he supposed to do?


Suffer until she figures it out. I love my wife. We have been together almost 14 years. I have never really changed since we met. I am a pretty solid guy. I go to work every day, I pay my bills on time, idont cheat on my wife, I LOVE my boys, I don't gamble, I don't drugs, I had a beer one time in the past year, I don't neglect my duties as a husband and a father, I cook, I clean.
I see pictures of women on the internet and I look. That one thing discounts all the other great things I do. 
I don't need to be monitored, she had two plus years of FBI type surveillance on me to figure I wouldnt and have never stepped out on our marriage.
In all this time I have begged her to show constant affection, not once in while, not if and when I have been a "good boy"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

always_alone said:


> I'm only trying to say that I think you'll be in a better position to help her if you at least call it what it is. Wanting/needing sexual outlets that literally have nothing to do with her, do not include her, and possibly never will.


Isn't that what most have been advocating here, suggesting he:
1) re-establish a boundary and making clear it will be enforced;
2) reject the notion he is doing anything that is unusual for a healthy relationship
3) reject the notion that what he is doing is inherently a reflection of her
?



always_alone said:


> But instead of the in-your-face approach advocated by some of the other posters here, I'd suggest that you try focussing more on ways that she does deliver, and what she does offer. The carrot, instead of the stick.


richie33, for sure I hope when you address this with your wife, you'll be able to do so while fully in touch with how much you love her, and how beautiful she is to you. It'd be a mistake to deal with this from a state of anger.

always_alone, for my own reasons, I'm wondering if you've seen what I've advocated as an in-your-face approach? Quite honestly, for me, in my situations, it feels the carrots have been dangling there so long they've rotted, and all that is left is for me to eat the stick.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

always_alone said:


> The monitoring is unhealthy, no doubt about it. But hiding is also unhealthy, and will only serve to further feed her mistrust and addiction to monitoring.


I don't advocate "hiding". I advocate putting a clear end to the monitoring, being very explicit about it, and being very clear about the reasons why it is important the monitoring end.

I think there is a difference between that and hiding.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> This is a no win situation. If he tells her the truth he's in trouble. If he hides it he's in trouble. What's he supposed to do?


If he tells her the truth, and establishes his boundaries, then there is a chance she will seek the IC help she needs to address whatever is making the truth so difficult for her to deal with.

If she crosses the boundary, lets her problems continue to do damage to the relationship and herself and OP, then perhaps OP will feel like he has done all that he could do, and leave with a clear conscious. Maybe then she will seek help in IC to cope, and to learn whatever she needs to learn about herself.

IMHO, maybe it can help to hide the truth, temporarily, during an emergency, or mental health crisis. But, over the long term, truth hiding helps no one. And, if there is a brighter day ahead together or for anyone, then the truth will have to be a part of it.

Just my opinion.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

richie33 said:


> Suffer until she figures it out.


This is your only option?


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Mavash. said:


> This is your only option?


Not too optimistic is it?


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

That's what she wants but not what she is going to get.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

richie33,

Is there ANYONE that she has talked to about her surveillance, or of her worries about what it is "you do" (which, IMO, are normal, healthy, and often don't cause a blink of an eye in other relationships)?

Is she getting feedback from anyone at all? Or, is she suffering with this all alone?

Btw, it's clear you truly love your wife. If you didn't, you'd be gone by now. So sad that she cannot see _*that*_.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Actually richie.

You have a Nexus device as a phone.
Most of those don't have a micro SD drive to side load apps.

This means if there is monitoring software on your phone it was purchased through your own Google Play account and downloaded directly to your phone.

I tell you this because if it's the case you should be able to sign into your Google Play account online and check the list of all the apps ever bought on your account and find exactly what app is monitoring you.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

My wife is very private person. I beg her to talk to her sister she will not. She was in IC but didn't really lisen to the therapist. Went to vent but not change. I don't care who she talks to as long as she talks to someone. I am not helping.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

PieceOfSky said:


> I don't advocate "hiding". I advocate putting a clear end to the monitoring, being very explicit about it, and being very clear about the reasons why it is important the monitoring end.
> 
> I think there is a difference between that and hiding.


Fair enough. I think I misinterpreted the purpose of wiping the phone as get rid of the "evidence" as opposed to getting rid of the monitoring software.

Still, if she's determined to monitor, whatever she is using will likely be back as soon as she figures out how.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Maybe it's grossly presumptuous and domineering for me to say it like this: "she needs to fix her issues in IC".

Perhaps it would be better to say, simply, this is obviously something she is struggling with and must be feeling miserable about, and perhaps if she saw a good counselor she could start to get some relief (coping, de-stress), so that you two can then deal head-on with whatever needs to be resolved.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

tacoma said:


> Actually richie.
> 
> You have a Nexus device as a phone.
> Most of those don't have a micro SD drive to side load apps.
> ...


The Nexus burnt out. Had a old droid phone in the house so I switched it out. Nexus was a good phone but the memory is interal so everything might be lost. So many great pictures of my boys...lost.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

richie33 said:


> The Nexus burnt out. Had a old droid phone in the house so I switched it out. Nexus was a good phone but the memory is interal so everything might be lost. So many great pictures of my boys...lost.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you can get the Nexus to power up (maybe while plugged into the charger) you can link a USB cord between your phone and computer.
You'd be able to drag the entire contents of the phones file system to your computer and save the pics (and everything else).


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Has she being doing anything to meet your needs more?
It sounds like theirs a massive focus on your actions in the marriage and not much on hers.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Tiggy she has tried but its almost always dictated upon how she is feeling. 
She could do something that bothers me I don't allow it to engulf our marriage. I have been walking on eggshells around her for a very long time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

To me it really sounds like she is focusing on you so intensely so she doesn't have to focus on herself. She no doubts needs help but that is why I think be completely honest with her,
if you are it may blow up massive for awhile but it will also eliminate any justification she feels being able to focus on everything you do (well this proves he lies to me so I need to check his YouTube ect ).


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

TiggyBlue said:


> To me it really sounds like she is focusing on you so intensely so she doesn't have to focus on herself. She no doubts needs help but that is why I think be completely honest with her,
> if you are it may blow up massive for awhile but it will also eliminate any justification she feels being able to focus on everything you do (well this proves he lies to me so I need to check his YouTube ect ).


This is really what you need to do richie.

Just tell her this is she's over reacting and tell her you won't enable her attitude then just let her deal with it.

If she ever comes up with a rational way you can help her deal with it be all ears and as helpful as you can.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

*sigh* 

I am currently on the other side of this, as in the wife who doesn't want porn in her marriage. I know how she feels. I've never flipped out and cut off sex for weeks, but I have had quite a few breakdowns because of it. 

Richie, I'd like to renew my offer to speak privately with your wife. When 1000 people tell you that you are domineering, a b*tch, insecure, crazed and controlling...it makes you feel lower than dirt because you cannot control your reactions to what you see as a massive betrayal. I bet if she could change her feelings she WOULD, but at this juncture she cannot.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Last month I said to her point blank there will be things I will look at that you may not like but its for you to work out. Should I have written down exactly anything and everything I was capable of? Maybe. 
When we were dating there was FHM and Maxim magazine laying in the bathroom. Not much different than what she is now seeing on my phone. She never said a word. We watched porn together. Never said a word. Had Howard Stern on Demand on cable....never said a word. She knew who she was married to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

richie33 said:


> Last month I said to her point blank there will be things I will look at that you may not like but its for you to work out. Should I have written down exactly anything and everything I was capable of? Maybe.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Sorry but you pretty much gave her a invitation to spy on what your looking at by telling her it's for her to work it out.


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

First, I'd whipe the phone, and then password it. She has clearly overstepped her bounds. 

There is not much worse than an insecure, controlling woman (or man). Sometimes the only way out, is actually out. She may be able to hide the insecurity for a while, but unless she gets her head right, it will always creep back up. 

And my god, if a guy rubbing one out the morning after great sex makes a woman "not enough" in bed, then my W must be lousy! The better the sex, the hornier I am afterwards. It just works that way. Sometimes the W will joke to the effect of "oh my god, you're horny again?!". I'll respond with something like "okay miss 8 orgasms to my one last night". She gets it. Because I explained it to her. Good sex just has me "ramped up" for a while afterwards. Just last week she asked if I'd RBO'd that day while she was out golfing. I said "twice". After the "OMG's, you're a horny bastard", we were at it again. 

Got to love a secure, confident woman. Got no room in my life for an insecure, controlling one. The difference in harmony, happiness, and sense of content cannot be overstated.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

donny64 said:


> Got to love a secure, confident woman. Got no room in my life for an insecure, controlling one. The difference in harmony, happiness, and sense of content cannot be overstated.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Amen!!


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Hi,
One final piece of advice, will she be willing to see a doctor for OCD meds, they can help her but, it would still be necessary for her to get therapy. The meds can help her with having the need to be checking in on you. Her case is very severe I sure that if she stops your house would be cleaner your children would be better taken care of and she would be more productive. 
Hence everybody happier. I hope she realizes that if you leave she will only find something else to compose about. That could be your kids any addiction, just s warning to her. 

Luvox works pretty good for OCD. A great book for both of you would be letting go of shame, and co-dependent no more.
I guess there are many options she just needs to want to get better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

AnnieAsh said:


> *sigh*
> 
> I am currently on the other side of this, as in the wife who doesn't want porn in her marriage. I know how she feels. I've never flipped out and cut off sex for weeks, but I have had quite a few breakdowns because of it.
> 
> Richie, I'd like to renew my offer to speak privately with your wife. When 1000 people tell you that you are domineering, a b*tch, insecure, crazed and controlling...it makes you feel lower than dirt because you cannot control your reactions to what you see as a massive betrayal. I bet if she could change her feelings she WOULD, but at this juncture she cannot.


If I could say anything to her, it would NOT to be to assign her any of those behaviors/traits above.

It would be to let her know it seems like, from here, that she must be hurting very very much, and I don't think she is going to ever get relief from it unless she aggressively gets a good mental health professional involved.

The tragedy is that *she* is suffering, as is her husband, and her kids. Yet, unless they are both, individually, willing to be open to digging deeper into one's own emotions and blind spots here, working intently with professionals, then the tragedy will continue far after the kids move far away from the dysfunctional home of their youth. At best, he might decide to leave and at least show his kids choosing mental health and seeking a joyous relationship is sometimes something you can only do by letting go of someone unwilling to work on themselves. 

By doing nothing healthy and continuing to suffer alone with her hurt, IMHO, she is effectively choosing one of these unpleasant outcomes.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

donny64 said:


> And my god, if a guy rubbing one out the morning after great sex makes a woman "not enough" in bed, then my W must be lousy! The better the sex, the hornier I am afterwards. It just works that way.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I wonder if OP's wife, at least intellectually, would see the candidness and honesty of what you've written there.

And, in my fairly humble sex life/history, it's been the same for me. Heck, I can remember the days shortly after losing my virginity at the ripe old age of 25/26, getting involuntary erections sitting at my desk at work, something I hadn't experienced since jr. High (okay, or h.s., maybe part of college); it wasn't because I wanted something different or better than what I just got; it was because I wanted more and more of the same!

Anyways, it's a shame she is hurting because he is horny, when he very is likely horny because she just rocked his world. She should feel proud, not inadequate!!!


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

AnnieAsh said:


> *sigh*
> 
> I am currently on the other side of this, as in the wife who doesn't want porn in her marriage. I know how she feels. I've never flipped out and cut off sex for weeks, but I have had quite a few breakdowns because of it.
> 
> Richie, I'd like to renew my offer to speak privately with your wife. When 1000 people tell you that you are domineering, a b*tch, insecure, crazed and controlling...it makes you feel lower than dirt because you cannot control your reactions to what you see as a massive betrayal. I bet if she could change her feelings she WOULD, but at this juncture she cannot.


Annieash,
I get what you are saying, but for me the only thing that helped me was to take an honest look at my behavior and want to change. I did it for me and my family. The behavior was making me sick, physically and emotionally. This is no way to live, my case was not so extreme so I imagine she at the bottom and needs help. I have been doing so much better it has made a major impact on my life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

PieceOfSky said:


> Isn't that what most have been advocating here, suggesting he:
> 1) re-establish a boundary and making clear it will be enforced;
> 2) reject the notion he is doing anything that is unusual for a healthy relationship
> 3) reject the notion that what he is doing is inherently a reflection of her
> ?


But that's just it. I'm not suggesting that he just establish and enforce his boundary and right to watch what he wants and reject the notion that what he is doing is a reflection of her.

I'm suggesting that he acknowledge that it very much *is* a reflection of her. He is not satisfied sexually -- and goes elsewhere. He knows it; she knows it. Why pretend otherwise? 

I suspect it only makes her more likely to doubt it when he says that he would prefer to have sex with her.



PieceOfSky said:


> richie33, for sure I hope when you address this with your wife, you'll be able to do so while fully in touch with how much you love her, and how beautiful she is to you. It'd be a mistake to deal with this from a state of anger.


Yes, this. And also building from where she does excel, and trying where possible to focus on the positives.

I won't say that this will solve the problem or pretend to have the answer -- but certainly helping her to find her strengths and contributions can't hurt?



PieceOfSky said:


> always_alone, for my own reasons, I'm wondering if you've seen what I've advocated as an in-your-face approach? Quite honestly, for me, in my situations, it feels the carrots have been dangling there so long they've rotted, and all that is left is for me to eat the stick.


I wasn't thinking of you specifically when I said that, and no, I don't see your posts as being extreme in-your-face. But I do think overall that this "men like naked girls, get over it" mentality is a slam that actually misses the real issues.

I mean richie all but gave up naked girls, and it's still a huge deal. 
Why? My guess is that it is her trust in the relationship. She knows she is not delivering to expectations and sees herself as replaceable, and perhaps even already replaced.

But I'm just extrapolating from my own experiences. I don't know if it is any help to richie and since i don't know anything at all about your situation, am even less sure that any of what I've said would relate to you.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

PieceOfSky said:


> If I could say anything to her, it would NOT to be to assign her any of those behaviors/traits above.
> 
> It would be to let her know it seems like, from here, that she must be hurting very very much, and I don't think she is going to ever get relief from it unless she aggressively gets a good mental health professional involved.
> 
> ...


I read the 7 pages of this thread. I wanted to cry for her. People ARE assigning those terms to her behavior. Those were words I pulled from those 7 pages. 

I agree with you 100% that she needs to seek professional help. At the same time, why should she NOT see what her husband is doing online? If he is doing nothing wrong, then why hide his activities? After weeks of seeing nothing questionable, the urge to snoop will subside. The problem is he is deliberately looking at material that is making her crazier. 

If I could say anything to her it would be do not to punish your husband for a slip up. Rage is NEVER a good way to address your issues and yes, you have the right to be hurt. That still doesn't give you license to hurt your husband and children.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

always_alone said:


> ..Why? My guess is that it is her trust in the relationship. She knows she is not delivering to expectations and sees herself as replaceable, and perhaps even already replaced...*But I'm just extrapolating from my own experiences*. I don't know if it is any help to richie and since i don't know anything at all about your situation, *am even less sure that any of what I've said would relate to you*.


:smthumbup: Honesty is the best policy, and I admire your honesty, Miss Alone. 

This world is full with people who thinks they know everything. Glad to know that honesty and humility still exists in this world, and especially in the Internetland.

Mr. Richie, I hope these pages and pages of advice by many well-intentioned ladies and gentlemen will be useful to you!


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

mablenc said:


> Annieash,
> I get what you are saying, but for me the only thing that helped me was to take an honest look at my behavior and want to change. I did it for me and my family. The behavior was making me sick, physically and emotionally. This is no way to live, my case was not so extreme so I imagine she at the bottom and needs help. I have been doing so much better it has made a major impact on my life.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Your behavior was making you sick, or the behavior that drove you to the snooping was making you sick? 

My husband is a hardcore porn user. I mean, he watches it more than we have sex. He spends more time pursuing it than he does ME. My behavior is caused by HIS.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Annie he can't win this can't you see that? He's a red blooded male and yes they look at pictures of women. My own husband gets emails of naked women from friends. So what? And if he didn't look at them there it's at work. Yes he works with a bunch of guys and they look at the babe of the day, a scantily clad woman, off a radio station site. We also have cable where anytime after 9 there is nude women. Where do you draw the line? 

Had he been honest with her she would be even angrier. I know because I used to be that insecure. 

And then I got over it. Nudity and scantily clad women are everywhere but to monitor his Internet activities is treating him like a child. Does she need to put parental controls on both the tv and Internet? How far does she go to be secure?


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

AnnieAsh said:


> My husband is a hardcore porn user. I mean, he watches it more than we have sex. He spends more time pursuing it than he does ME. My behavior is caused by HIS.


You have a boundary problem and its not what the op is going through.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> Annie he can't win this can't you see that? He's a red blooded male and yes they look at pictures of women. My own husband gets emails of naked women from friends. So what? And if he didn't look at them there it's at work. Yes he works with a bunch of guys and they look at the babe of the day, a scantily clad woman, off a radio station site. We also have cable where anytime after 9 there is nude women. Where do you draw the line?
> 
> Had he been honest with her she would be even angrier. I know because I used to be that insecure.
> 
> And then I got over it. Nudity and scantily clad women are everywhere but to monitor his Internet activities is treating him like a child. Does she need to put parental controls on both the tv and Internet? How far does she go to be secure?


That is something they have to work out. My issue is the deliberate seeking of material (not something he came across innocently.) Then, deciding what she should know. It is making a decision FOR her about what she can handle. She's not a child. 



Mavash. said:


> You have a boundary problem and its not what the op is going through.


No. Wrong. I do not have a boundary problem. My husband has a compulsion problem.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Annie I work a very blue collar job, all male, I tell the guys don't send me certain material. They respect me and they don't. I told my wife I will look at things. When we were dating in my apartment was FHM and Maxim magazines. We have watched porn together. Its not a stretch that I looked at these things. That might not be the case in your relationship. But your bringing your feelings of what is going on in your marriage in this thread.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

AnnieAsh said:


> Your behavior was making you sick, or the behavior that drove you to the snooping was making you sick?
> 
> My husband is a hardcore porn user. I mean, he watches it more than we have sex. He spends more time pursuing it than he does ME. My behavior is caused by HIS.


It was me, since the beginning I had a huge fear of abandonment and looked for anything that would prove my point. Then I would shame him for the smallest things.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

richie33 said:


> Annie I work a very blue collar job, all male, I tell the guys don't send me certain material. They respect me and they don't. I told my wife I will look at things. When we were dating in my apartment was FHM and Maxim magazines. We have watched porn together. Its not a stretch that I looked at these things. That might not be the case in your relationship. But your bringing your feelings of what is going on in your marriage in this thread.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


*shrug* obviously you know better than me. Because clearly you are doing everything right? I have sex with my husband. I don't rage at him. Yet, your wife does? Hmmm. 

I'm bowing out. Good luck to you!


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Sorry Annie you feel that way. I understand people have been hurtful to you on this forum. If I did my apologies. I think you can help. Your the otherside of the debate.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

Richie, she just sounds so HURT. My heart is aching for her AND you AND your kids. Anyone who knows me will tell you, I cry so easily over other people's pain. *hugs*


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## Topical storm (Mar 30, 2013)

AnnieAsh said:


> Your behavior was making you sick, or the behavior that drove you to the snooping was making you sick?
> 
> My husband is a hardcore porn user. I mean, he watches it more than we have sex. He spends more time pursuing it than he does ME. My behavior is caused by HIS.


So are you against porn in general or your husband's usage of porn to the degree you don't have a good sex life?

This man's wife is nuts. Filled with too many emotional issues that if he comes across the screen with an ad of a half naked lady, she will go bonkers. Surely you aren't like her?


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Annie thanks, I can tell your a good person. She is hurt, we both are. I am in a hotel right now. I would rather be home with my wife and kids. But we both need a timeout. Clear the air and be apart.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> ...I know because I used to be that insecure...And then I got over it.





mablenc said:


> ...but for me the only thing that helped me was to take an honest look at my behavior and want to change. I did it for me and my family. The behavior was making me sick, physically and emotionally. This is no way to live, my case was not so extreme so I imagine she at the bottom and needs help. I have been doing so much better it has made a major impact on my life...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Mrs. Mavash and Mrs. Mablenc, may I know, how did you two get over your insecurity problems? I am interested with this, because it is not easy to take a bold step and solve our insecurities. What event drove you to modify your behavior? Thank you for your kind attention.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

john_lord_b3 said:


> Mrs. Mavash and Mrs. Mablenc, may I know, how did you two get over your insecurity problems? I am interested with this, because it is not easy to take a bold step and solve our insecurities. What event drove you to modify your behavior? Thank you for your kind attention.



For me I had an emotional break down, we had left a cult shunned from our families, I was about to be laid off my husband had been laid off prior to that. I have a child with autism so. My husband and I were both depressed from the cult issue. He got on meds which he repeatedly told me he was feeling strange. Well with time in his hands he started to reach out to people and did not have an EA but pretty close. I found out, got tickled truth did all the wrong things. Broke down like never before. My parents were abusive and would tell me no one would love me. My husband was the only person who believed in me and treated me good. So I was so scared of losing him that I tried to control him.

So the break down causes me to seek help and put the puzzle together.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

Topical storm said:


> So are you against porn in general or your husband's usage of porn to the degree you don't have a good sex life?
> 
> This man's wife is nuts. Filled with too many emotional issues that if he comes across the screen with an ad of a half naked lady, she will go bonkers. Surely you aren't like her?


 Meh. Porn is what it is. I didn't want to marry a guy who enjoyed it on a regular basis because...I am extremely demanding sexually. And, unfortunately, I just can't be attracted to a heavy user. Morally, as long as it has consenting adults, I don't object to its existence. 

To call her nuts is extremely rude. She's struggling. 

Richie's


richie33 said:


> Annie thanks, I can tell your a good person. She is hurt, we both are. I am in a hotel right now. I would rather be home with my wife and kids. But we both need a timeout. Clear the air and be apart.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think before you can find out what she finds acceptable within your marriage, you both need to learn how to have calm discussions rather than rip-roaring arguments. Then, you could feel safe being honest with her about YOUR feelings and she can come to you when she is feeling insecure and let you comfort her.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

mablenc said:


> For me I had an emotional break down, we had left a cult shunned from our families, I was about to be laid off my husband had been laid off prior to that. I have a child with autism so. My husband and I were both depressed from the cult issue. He got on meds which he repeatedly told me he was feeling strange. Well with time in his hands he started to reach out to people and did not have an EA but pretty close. I found out, got tickled truth did all the wrong things. Broke down like never before.


 Sorry to hear that. I hope everything is better now? Life has its ups and downs, and sometimes the downsides took its tolls in our personality, we became the kind people we never wanted to be..


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

john_lord_b3 said:


> Sorry to hear that. I hope everything is better now? Life has its ups and downs, and sometimes the downsides took its tolls in our personality, we became the kind people we never wanted to be..


Thank you, I feel so much better now still in therapy but off meds. I hit rock bottom even suicidal. Now I'm more secure I know that I can survive an that if my husband is here Its because he loves me. If he wants to leave at any time he can and I will be ok because I am me 
_Posted via Mobile Device_
Edit;
I was also hard because we were sheltered from the world they (cult) would not let us have a TV so all if the sudden you are out in a world and my insicuries got worse.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

mablenc said:


> Thank you, I feel so much better now still in therapy but off meds. I hit rock bottom even suicidal. Now I'm more secure I know that I can survive an that if my husband is here Its because he loves me. If he wants to leave at any time he can and I will be ok because I am me
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:smthumbup:Mrs. Mablenc, that's the spirit! I am glad to hear that you picked yourself up (with professional help) and have a more positive outlook of life. The strength of character becomes known when facing problems in life, and your strong character shines through!

I hope Mr. Richie's wife would do the same too, surely they both will be better.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

AnnieAsh said:


> Because clearly you are doing everything right? I have sex with my husband. I don't rage at him. Yet, your wife does? Hmmm.


That was out of bounds, IMHO. Certainly not called for nor helpful.

OP, you've said nothing on this thread that's suggested to me for a second that you think you are doing everything right.

It sounds to me like you have tried very hard to do what you thought was right, including trying for a very long time what your wife thought was right, but it hasn't helped.

It sounds to me like you are seeking answers and clarity here. And, it sure seems like you are a big enough man to accept your "wrongs" here, should it turn out you have any.

And it seems your wife has not lifted a finger to find a way to cope with this difficult situation, or to find a way to resolve it.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

AnnieAsh said:


> ...is extremely rude. She's struggling.


Yes, it is, and potentially harmful to OP and Wife's discussions of this matter, since she may in fact be reading our posts, as OP already stated she is reading his posts. 

TS, I wish you'd go back and edit that out. If that bothers you, then consider it is coming from someone who is just now starting to accept he is a Mr. Nice Guy; if I get farther in this book tonight, who knows what I'm likely to say then  

Oh, and I am sorry, if it bothers you. (Doh! There I go again. Must. Stop. Caring. So. Much. About. What....)


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

always_alone said:


> But that's just it. I'm not suggesting that he just establish and enforce his boundary and right to watch what he wants and reject the notion that what he is doing is a reflection of her.
> 
> I'm suggesting that he acknowledge that it very much *is* a reflection of her. He is not satisfied sexually -- and goes elsewhere. He knows it; she knows it. Why pretend otherwise?
> 
> I suspect it only makes her more likely to doubt it when he says that he would prefer to have sex with her.


Ah. Thanks for clarifying. I didn't understand that the first time. There's a subtlety there I didn't see.

Speaking for my own situation, I would say whatever use I make of porn at this point in my life is, well, it's just about all I have available to myself to *try* to bring a little pleasure into my life, sexually. It is a very poor consolation prize; I'd much rather have my wife (even just hugs from her).

Much of what is out there in pornland disgusts me. The bits that I think are beautiful examples of humans seizing joy in this life, well, if I let myself think about it -- how I'm merely just a low-life observer that can't even get a HJ from his wife --then, I don't even get that little bit of "fake" pleasure; so I try not to think about it.

It'd be a shame if my wife thought porn was dear to me in some way, or if she felt as if she can't compete with the "perfect" subjects of most porn. I love her dearly, and crave her body, and crave to know she is willing to lovingly give it to me precisely because it's her body that brings me the purest of joy; I wish she'd want the same for me, or at least want to want to feel similarly.

But, it's also true that my time spent with porn would be an order of magnitude less, darn near zero, if her time spent with me being intimate would just be a little more. But, that's not so much a reflection of something inherent in her (like her beauty, her desirability), but it is fair to say it is a reflection of the fact we very rarely are intimate; she's pretty much the gatekeeper on that, but I hasten to add it's nothing at this point she can just turn on or off; it just is. (Though, SHE COULD CERTAINLY TRY TO FIX THINGS.  )

I can remember when she and I were much more frequently intimate. There were times when I'd masturbate too, sometimes with a "visual aid", sometimes not; I've always encouraged her to do the same. That was no threat to her or me, and I'm pretty sure she did not perceive it as a threat. It's just a fact, one partner is not always willing and able and present to be intimate, when the other partner happens to be in the mood. That's something that IS NOT a reflection of anyone, it's just the way we are made, IMHO. And, masturbation is just easier and more satisfying when there are images to look at (at least for me); and, at my age, easier is getting increasingly important; and at any age, wanting "more satisfying" is not a character flaw.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

john_lord_b3 said:


> Mrs. Mavash and Mrs. Mablenc, may I know, how did you two get over your insecurity problems? I am interested with this, because it is not easy to take a bold step and solve our insecurities. What event drove you to modify your behavior? Thank you for your kind attention.


I was a hypocrite. I grew up watching porn and reading my dad's Playboy but once I got married I was not only ashamed of my sexuality but insecure at the thought of my husband looking at other women so I did the dumbest thing ever. I nixed it all in the name of insecurity. He complied (to the best of my knowledge) but I did not snoop. I know now he did look, watch, etc. he just hid it. He wasn't compulsive about it so it was never a problem. 

I caught him a couple times watching skinemax and yes we argued over it. It wasn't the movie that bothered me it was fear. Fear that I wasn't enough somehow. So stupid.

I found TAM and reading stories from men eased my fears, also allowed me to embrace who I am sexually and the rest is well history. I no longer have a problem with insecurity in regards to porn, naked pictures, suggestive movies, whatever. It just doesn't matter. I know he loves and wants ME.

I won't lie I have 'twinges' of insecurity that comes up from time to time on this topic but I just talk myself down. I'm married to one of the nicest guys out there. So he likes to look at naked women and porn every once in a while. He's NOT addicted by any stretch of the imagination - most of the time he'd rather watch it WITH me. As long as it doesn't interfere with our marriage in a negative way I'm good.


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## notmarriedyet (Nov 10, 2012)

PieceOfSky said:


> It'd be a shame if my wife thought porn was dear to me in some way, or if she felt as if she can't compete with the "perfect" subjects of most porn. I love her dearly, and crave her body, and crave to know she is willing to lovingly give it to me precisely because it brings me joy; I wish she'd want the same for me, or at least want to want to feel similarly.


That is the sweetest thing to say. It's comforting to me to know that someone actually feels that way. 
It would be awesome if wives who are uncomfortable with their spouses porn use could hear him articulate it the way you did. It definitely puts it into a completely different context. It's comforting and reassuring. 

I think that's what my problem is when porn usage gets under my skin, is that he pays more attention to their beauty, appreciate it more. Whereas he doesn't bother ogling my body at all, yet a picture of a CLOTHED (or partially clothed) woman's body is more desirable, arousing, and appreciated than the woman who he is supposed to feel that way about above all others. 

Flesh & blood vs pictures. That's a tough pill for a lot of women (not saying men can't feel it too) to swallow. Especially when that focus is geared toward a particular actress (porn or otherwise) over a long period of time. 

Men are indeed visual creatures more so than women who are more emotionally aroused (in most cases) and when we feel that our SO has a "thing" for another woman in an intimate sense, that equals emotion to us. 

Just my two cents - my apologies if I didn't contribute any useful info for the OP.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> I grew up watching porn and reading my dad's Playboy but once I got married I was not only ashamed of my sexuality but insecure at the thought of my husband looking at other women so I did the dumbest thing ever.



My experience was the reverse. Much guilt growing up about masturbation, and an order of magnitude worse guilt if I happened upon any visual aid (anyone's porn stash, the Sears Catalog underwear section, etc.). When, for seven or eight months before college, I finally had a sweetheart, I withheld "sinful thoughts" of others, best I could, that whole time; age 17, male, and probably masturbated twice that whole time. (And, never, ever, did I let myslef fantasize about her; and, perhaps just once, did I let myself even hint at my urges to be with her.)

Buying that first Playboy in college was a lonely and depressing and hidden experience. There was always much shame -- shame about doing it, and even worse shame because that is all I was "man enough" to get.

So when I met my wife-to-be, and we finally started being intimate, I finally felt like a real man. And, I felt it was all good and all honorable and such a joy.

As a personal aside here, to my personal aside: THAT's why it hurts so much to have it mostly taken away, and only given to me reluctantly and with hesitation four times a year.

It is also why it worries me so to hear of spouses having trouble accepting that their partners want an _occasional_ quickie alone. There should be no shame in masturbation. I will go to my grave angry at the culture that inculcated that sort of shame in me.

For me, porn is just a masturbation aid, just like I suppose, in my wildest dreams, a warm bath, a clean house (by hubby), candles, and a classy high-quality toy might be for my wife.

It's just a shame all this isn't easier. We are only here for a little while. And then we are not.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

PieceOfSky said:


> My experience was the reverse. Much guilt growing up about masturbation, and an order of magnitude worse guilt if I happened upon any visual aid (anyone's porn stash, the Sears Catalog underwear section, etc.).


LOL I married a man just like you. Catholic guilt, prudish, nonsexual parents, massive guilt over anything sexual....

He repressed his sexuality same as me just for different reasons. 

We find it comical now. It's funny and neither of us had any idea until recently. 

Seriously.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Wonderful pieces from Mr. PiecesofSky and Mrs. Mavash. Should be required readings in regards to "role of porn in married couples" thumbs up!!!


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

PieceOfSky said:


> Speaking for my own situation, I would say whatever use I make of porn at this point in my life is, well, it's just about all I have available to myself to *try* to bring a little pleasure into my life, sexually. It is a very poor consolation prize; I'd much rather have my wife (even just hugs from her).
> 
> Much of what is out there in pornland disgusts me. The bits that I think are beautiful examples of humans seizing joy in this life, well, if I let myself think about it -- how I'm merely just a low-life observer that can't even get a HJ from his wife --then, I don't even get that little bit of "fake" pleasure; so I try not to think about it.
> 
> It'd be a shame if my wife thought porn was dear to me in some way, or if she felt as if she can't compete with the "perfect" subjects of most porn. I love her dearly, and crave her body, and crave to know she is willing to lovingly give it to me precisely because it's her body that brings me the purest of joy; I wish she'd want the same for me, or at least want to want to feel similarly.


I think one of the reasons so many women react so negatively to porn is that so much of it is disgusting, so utterly flattening to the human experience. For me, it's not the supposed "perfect bodies" that are worrying, as most of those bodies aren't even that perfect. It's the seediness, the fakery, the dehumanization. And I just can't help but think, if you (and I don't mean you personally, but just "one") can find that attractive, even desirable, then what does that say? 

This is why I find the "men like naked chicks, get over it" response so unhelpful. Yes nudity can be titillating, but does that mean the sight of naked flesh trumps all other concerns?

Add to that porn use is often hidden, lied about, and used as a replacement for real sex. All of a sudden you've got a basic recipe for undermining trust in the relationship. If your partner is consistently going behind your back to look up his favourite porn star, why wouldn't you start thinking that he valued her/porn as much as or more than you?

Then dump all of that on someone who has already been burned or who has deep seated insecurity, and you're working your way up to full scale disaster.

I have a great deal of sympathy for you and richie, and others in your situation. I honestly can't fathom how a wife, or any person, could become so detached from their sexuality that they could deny themselves and the ones they love for so long. Not sure I could stand it myself --and really haven't any idea what the answer is.

But at the same time, I think Annie is right. The OP's wife is hurting. And I suspect that she is trying to use the compulsive monitoring as a way to self soothe. When he isn't looking, it's a sign that all will be well, and when he does look, all of that trust she gained slips away. What she doesn't realize is how hurtful this is to both him and her. She can't build her trust this way and is destroying his in the process. She needs to shift focus and start looking for better ways to measure the quality of her life and relationship. Hopefully, he's able to help her.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> I was a hypocrite. I grew up watching porn and reading my dad's Playboy but once I got married I was not only ashamed of my sexuality but insecure at the thought of my husband looking at other women so I did the dumbest thing ever. I nixed it all in the name of insecurity. He complied (to the best of my knowledge) but I did not snoop. I know now he did look, watch, etc. he just hid it. He wasn't compulsive about it so it was never a problem.
> 
> I caught him a couple times watching skinemax and yes we argued over it. It wasn't the movie that bothered me it was fear. Fear that I wasn't enough somehow. So stupid.
> 
> ...


:smthumbup::smthumbup: great piece Mrs. Mavash. I also watch erotica with my wife every now and then. It's fun trying out new techniques. Discovering our limits is also enlightening. There are certain techniques I cannot do due to physical limitations, then we find ways around it. My wife's acceptance of porn, I believe, is due to her supreme self-confidence, and the circle of friends she's in, which are very open minded and encouraging. Also, we've been in some rough times back then, and I stick with her through them, so she knew I am very much into her. I understand that this is not the case with all women though.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

always_alone said:


> But at the same time, I think Annie is right. The OP's wife is hurting. And I suspect that she is trying to use the compulsive monitoring as a way to self soothe. When he isn't looking, it's a sign that all will be well, and when he does look, all of that trust she gained slips away. What she doesn't realize is how hurtful this is to both him and her. She can't build her trust this way and is destroying his in the process. She needs to shift focus and start looking for better ways to measure the quality of her life and relationship. Hopefully, he's able to help her.


In case it's not been clear, I wholeheartedly agree. 

What's really worrisome, it sounds as if she's been struggling alone with this, consulting no one else or getting any sort of emotional support, and seems not open too getting the help even ti just cope, let alone heal if need be. I hope I've misread.


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## eyuop (Apr 7, 2013)

richie33 said:


> eyuop if you feel so strongly about this why not tell your wife?
> Secrets crush marriages also.


I'll tell her after I can say it has been a year without porn. That is my plan and my personal challenge. That way anything difficult we have gone through with our personal intimacy life cannot be blamed on porn.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

My wife has read the thread. She is bothered by some of the hurtful comments.
She doesn't agree with some of the things I wrote but its my perspective. She is more
than welcome to join the conversation. I doubt she will. She is right about one thing alot of
the problem is how we are communicating. I will be the 1st to admit my patience with these
constant conversation is very thin at best. I get very angry and frustrated and mouth is my enemy.
I have said divorce, separation....some pretty hurtful things. I don't seem to have the tools to
make things better. My wife knows how to push my buttons. She wears me down with the constant
talk. I will ask her to stop, I will more to a different room, try to leave and she will block the door.
I just need my space and she needs to be in my face.
I stayed at a hotel last night to clear the air. Not sure how much that helped. I woke up really missing
my boys. I don't know what the answer is or how to make things right. But I do know the way it is can't go
on. I don't want to hurt her. But I can't sit here and say I will never look at images of woman ever again.
For her its wrong but its not for me. For those who say if you know it bothers her you would stop. I am saying its not possible in that context. Throughout our marriage their has been a ton of things I asked my wife to stop and she never did. It bothers me....yes. Are these things dealbreakers in a marriage....for some yes. For me....no. I accept her for who she is. I can't change her. She should want to change herself. I feel like I have changed alot in the past two years. Enough where she should be happy with the progress.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Hi Richie, sorry to hear that it's not working. She fell in love with you, by changing your not helping the situation because it's not about you. I really wish she could be strong enough to seek help. She would be so much better.

It's not reasonable to not meet your needs for weeks and her being upset that you have to take care of yourself. It would be one thing if she was physically unable to but she needs to understand that you have needs. Even Christopher Reeds and his wife found a way for sexual intimacy. He understood that his wife loved him dearly but, she's human and has sexual needs.

Like I and others had offer she can PM me, I have been in her shoes and felt the way she has. I have grown up and changed so much this past year. I learned that my behavior had nothing to do with my husband. It was emotional baggage that I was unaware of that molded my behavior. It would be very sad for her to ruin the marriage and unfair that she is burden to the point that she can't enjoy your marriage. 
You sound so caring and I just want you to know its not you, we carry burdens, we carry trauma that makes us act and think in a certain way. Sometimes it remains hidden other times it makes us turn into someone we hate.

I would like to ask her if she is reading to think about the times you were dating and when you were newly weds. Nothing mattered it was just you and him, he made you feel butterflies and nervous and I'm sure you were crazy about him. Remember the joy if having your children, those are bonds that link you forever as you created life from your love. Your children are proof of the love and commitment that you have for each other. I would like for you to read the boards, there is so much heart break awful things that have happened between couples. It's devastating to see one spouse leave another and not care about them and sometimes they also leave their children.

You have a husband who is really trying, meet him in the middle I know you love him. Go back to being you, the woman in love with plans for the future with her husband and children. If he has stayed this long it means he loves you dearly.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Mablenc I tell wife this all the time. Remember back when we both suffered and she didnt got out and saved and both paid for our dream wedding. Running around the city during 9/11 to get to eachother. Me driving you every Saturday to school and waiting for outside when you were done. Going to Boston and explorering the city, hoping from bar to bar, Puerto Rico, Las Vegas. Buying our 1st house, waiting for you two hours after my shift so I can pick you up and get our favorite takeout. Day before our oldest was born went to the movies cause you wanted popcorn, the pictures we took that day are still on the fridge, we have smiles from ear to ear. The next day we go to hospital and have the scare of our lives and you have to have a emergency c section and you bless me with our beautiful boy. I was so scared something was going to happen to you.
That's the guy who you married and still am.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

richie33 said:


> Mablenc I tell wife this all the time. Remember back when we both suffered and she didnt got out and saved and both paid for our dream wedding. Running around the city during 9/11 to get to eachother. Me driving you every Saturday to school and waiting for outside when you were done. Going to Boston and explorering the city, hoping from bar to bar, Puerto Rico, Las Vegas. Buying our 1st house, waiting for you two hours after my shift so I can pick you up and get our favorite takeout. Day before our oldest was born went to the movies cause you wanted popcorn, the pictures we took that day are still on the fridge, we have smiles from ear to ear. The next day we go to hospital and have the scare of our lives and you have to have a emergency c section and you bless me with our beautiful boy. I was so scared something was going to happen to you.
> *That's the guy who you married and still am.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


To Mrs. Richie33,

I'm sure your husband has his faults (all of us do), but it's pretty clear to me he loves you dearly, wants to fix this, and does not know how. He cherishes what you two had. He longs for you to both find your way back. He has endured as much as you, perhaps more than you can see right now, while trying to find the map.

If you haven't reached out to a professional to get help coping with this all and resolving it (not that it is all your fault), then it is only a matter of time before you lose him -- either he will leave, or he will figuratively die trying to stay. Either way, it would be the biggest tragedy I've come across so far on this board, because so much happiness is still possible for you and him and your children.

If indeed you won't reach out to a professional, or anyone, to help cope with and resolve this deadly serious issue in your life, would you at least log in and tell mablenc or me why (via a Private Message)? How much risk would there be in that? You'd still be anonymous, and I don't think either of us would try to stuff your feelings back down your throat.

In any case, I truly wish you the best. My heart goes out to you and yours. I wish you peace, and all the happiness and joy that life makes possible.


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## Jonathan35 (Feb 28, 2013)

This is strange. Masturbating to porn is just part of a man's lifestyle. Stay away from women that don't understand that.


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## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

Jonathan35 said:


> This is strange. Masturbating to porn is just part of a man's lifestyle. Stay away from women that don't understand that.


I'd much rather have a happy and fulfilled sex life and not even watch porn or hardly watch it.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Hi, checking in to see if things are better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Things are. We are back to give it another shot. Our communication the last few days has been excellent. My wife has a appointment to see her therapist on thursday. We both need to start really listening to each other better. I keep stressing the continue checking my phone is not helping either one of us.
But for today, for now we are in a much better place. Thanks for thinking of us!


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

richie33 said:


> Things are. We are back to give it another shot. Our communication the last few days has been excellent. My wife has a appointment to see her therapist on thursday. We both need to start really listening to each other better. I keep stressing the continue checking my phone is not helping either one of us.
> But for today, for now we are in a much better place. Thanks for thinking of us!


Mr. Richie, good to hear these progresses, keep up the good work!:smthumbup:


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

john_lord_b3 said:


> Mr. Richie, good to hear these progresses, keep up the good work!:smthumbup:


Yes, that's great to hear!

I truly admire your and HER courage to take action to get unstuck and revive the love you both deserve. If it were easy, and if there was nothing to fear, then none of us would be here.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

richie33 said:


> Things are. We are back to give it another shot. Our communication the last few days has been excellent. My wife has a appointment to see her therapist on thursday. We both need to start really listening to each other better. I keep stressing the continue checking my phone is not helping either one of us.
> But for today, for now we are in a much better place. Thanks for thinking of us!


Great! Very proud of her and you! Don't forget to eat and drink water if you are going through a honeymoon phase 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Little bit of a set back happened last night.....for once not my fault. My wife doesn't come home till late on the days she works. On those days when the boys go to sleep I am right behind them. So I keep my phone with me in case my wife calls. I am a light sleeper so I hear her come in the bedroom and take my phone.
A hour or so later brings it back. There was nothing on my phone that I was worried her seeing. But this behavior bothers me a great deal. Things were going good so I don't want to make a big deal about it. But just as she doesnt want me looking at certain things on the internet....I don't want to be treated like a child.
Here is the example on how I react to things. Do I blow up and get angry cause I have asked her countless times to stop the monitoring? Or do what I always do and put the marriage before my own feelings? 
Most likely I wont make a issue of it cause things are going good. But it sucks that she is unwilling to change her behaviors.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

richie33 said:


> Little bit of a set back happened last night.....for once not my fault. My wife doesn't come home till late on the days she works. On those days when the boys go to sleep I am right behind them. So I keep my phone with me in case my wife calls. I am a light sleeper so I hear her come in the bedroom and take my phone.
> A hour or so later brings it back. There was nothing on my phone that I was worried her seeing. But this behavior bothers me a great deal. Things were going good so I don't want to make a big deal about it. But just as she doesnt want me looking at certain things on the internet....I don't want to be treated like a child.
> Here is the example on how I react to things. Do I blow up and get angry cause I have asked her countless times to stop the monitoring? Or do what I always do and put the marriage before my own feelings?
> Most likely I wont make a issue of it cause things are going good. But it sucks that she is unwilling to change her behaviors.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Keep your eye on the prize.

IF (and that is a big IF) she follows through aggressively in getting IC, then I would try hard to turn the other cheek on this for awhile. But if she slacks off and finds ways to not follow through on IC, then, well, you already know that is not sustainable.

I would be tempted to change my background image on my phone to partcularly nice and recent one of her, or an older one if you two back in your happier times. Partly to let her know you she is looking, partly to let her know you value HER and your relationship.

If the worst continues, I'd just start searching "what to do when the one you love had OCD and refuses to get help" and let her find that sort of thing in your browser history.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

I tend to look at things as the glass being half full. So if peace is attainable I will always go that route.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

richie33 said:


> I tend to look at things as the glass being half full. So if peace is attainable I will always go that route.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No doubt. And that is an admirable quality. But in some cases, it is cruel to be kind. In some cases, giving her your strength (ability to tolerate her unrealistic and obsessive intrusion in to your masturbation), makes her, and your marriage, weaker.

I would only tolerate it at this point, not to make peace, but to not lose the momentum she appears to be gaining towards seeing an IC.

Just my opinion.

You might give No More Mr. Nice Guy a search on the web.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

i own the book. I read it but didn't absorb it the way I should have. Alot of " that's me" moments while reading it. I am willing to bend but not willing to break. If this marriage is going to work long term she has to learn to bend also.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Today was our 10 year wedding anniversary.... sad to report she couldn't take the day off of investigation to enjoy our anniversary. I feel a bit defeated.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

I come back to this thread and re-read it from time to time. Things haven't gotten better, haven't got worse but I have gotten to the place were I begged my wife not to let it get to. I knew one day I would be done. That the fights would take a toll that their would be no coming back from. I have asked for a divorce....that I don't think either us could fix things. Too much resentment. I love her but I love myself a little more. The arguing and fighting for TWO years is enough. I did the best I could....not good enough to save the marriage but I can live with my effort.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

richie33 said:


> I come back to this thread and re-read it from time to time. Things haven't gotten better, haven't got worse but I have gotten to the place were I begged my wife not to let it get to. I knew one day I would be done. That the fights would take a toll that their would be no coming back from. I have asked for a divorce....that I don't think either us could fix things. Too much resentment. I love her but I love myself a little more. The arguing and fighting for TWO years is enough. I did the best I could....not good enough to save the marriage but I can live with my effort.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I feel for you. Both sorry and relieved for you. Wondering if and when I'll cross that line myself. Take care of you.


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