# New Advice from someone who's been there



## LoveNotEnough (Apr 4, 2009)

Ok my orginal post is here http://talkaboutmarriage.com/considering-divorce-separation/7557-up-against-wall.html



Now I have a new twist to add, and I have a horrible feeling about it. I need to know if I'm just being psycho/paranoid or if there's a legitimate concern.

My wife and I along with my parents have a family cell plan that I just upped the minutes on. With this increase we also got some friends list that you can pick 10 #s for unlimited calls. Anyway, I ran out of numbers. So I came up with the idea to export my bill into excel and see where minutes were going. As soon as I did this there was a glaring issue. A day prior it appeared that my wife made a phone call to a number I didn't know for 20 mines as soon as she left home for work. I brought it up this morning as to who it was and she told me it's her friend who is in the hospital's husband as her friends phone died. I asked if her friend ever uses her husband’s phone any other time and she said no and that it was a one time thing. I let it go and move on and go back to looking for numbers to add to my list. As I'm doing this I notice this same number on the call log a few more times but just for a few mins at a time. Immediately a red flag goes up to me. I then went and looked into the text messages. For whatever reason I can get the last two days text log and then June and July. Anyway, I do a search. To my dismay it's FILLED with texts with this number that's apparently her friend's husband’s phone. To make it worse it seems like they text non-stop from the time she leaves from work, all the way through the 8 hours, and then a few hours after work (which is the time I'm at work). This didn't occur everyday but by the looks of it happened a lot at the end of July. At this point I can't look at August but I'm worried it’s the same way, or does that even matter at this point? 

I have no clue what to do at this point. I don't know what happened the entire month of August. I don't know really anything. I don't know who the number even belongs to. I'm scared to even find out. 

If this is a guy is she cheating? What if it's just them talking, isn't that a lot of talking? Isn't that "emotional cheating"? 

I'm sitting at work as I type this and I want to break down and cry and at the same time want to destroy my computer. 

I don't know how to even approach this. I know if I say I found all this info she's going to say I was stalking, looking for it, etc etc (I have in the past because of another incident involving her talking to her ex). But honestly this time I wasn't. I know if I bring it up the fight (which I'm sure it will become quickly) will be immediately focused on what was I doing snooping etc. Is there anyway at all to avoid this? 

Anyone, advice? Wisdom? Another more optimistic point of view?


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## Treadingcarefully (Sep 1, 2009)

LoveNotEnough said:


> I don't know who the number even belongs to. I'm scared to even find out.


Ring from a payphone, pretend to be a cold caller or something. At least you'll know if it's a man's voice or a woman's voice. 
If it's bothering you, do a SENSIBLE amount of digging, if it still looks suspicious, ASK. You are entitled to the truth, and you're entitled to be wrong too.


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## JAE (Jul 17, 2009)

I'm sorry to be the one to tell you but she is cheating, the degree of it doesn't matter. This is identical to what I found. Non-stop texting and phone calls. I'm still dealing/figuring things out with my wife; who knows. As far as her accusing you of snooping, it doesn't matter. You found something that doesn't sit right with you and she has lied about. I don't have words of hope for you, I'm sorry. You need to confront her about it. Leave work sick if you can. You are not going to be able to function right.


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## no1.daddy2kids (Jul 29, 2009)

How has your marriage been? Mine was in disarray for some time, but we were living with it. Then another person came in the picture and the cell phone was used heavily. My advice, watch it closely, and monitor her. Watch her behavior with the phone, when it rings, where she brings it. In my case, less than two months of knowing this guy, we are divorcing and he is the best thing in the world. If you want my story, check out my other threads. If you have other questions, feel free to PM.

Don't let this slide, as others have said, you deserve to know what is going on. I didn't get the truth, although I knew what was happening. You could just see it.

I wish you the best, hoping that it is nothing...


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## foolz1 (Sep 5, 2009)

I too hate to say it, but she has obviously lied, regardless. Have you done a reverse cell phone lookup?


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## Brooklyn (Sep 11, 2009)

I will tell you with great certainty, she IS having an affair. I did the same stupid thing when I had an affair on my stbx H. The whole texting thing, excessive phone calls to a certain number. There are always signs. A great indicator is a sudden interest in appearance. Whether joining a gym, new wardrobe, tanning, new perfume. Also, mood swings which usually stem from frustration of not being able to be with the other person. People having affairs tend to also be not only irritable but distant as they are often in thought of the lover. I recommend doing a reverse lookup on the phone number in question as the previous poster suggested. If you come up empty, do even more investigating. Heck, my husband put a spyware on my computer and downloaded all conversations without my knowledge. It sounds like it's easy for her since both of you have different work schedules but only if you really want to know do I suggest you dig. I bet you will find that she is cheating. You deserve to know the truth and shouldn't feel guilty about prying. I will say this, after doing a lot of research as to why people cheat, I learned that many people do NOT do it for the physical intimacy. They do it for other various reasons. Low self esteem which is lessoned by the attention the lover is providing and the husband is not. And most women (including myself) do/did it because they are feeling vulnerable due to the lack of attention from their spouse. The lover makes them feel beautiful, appreciated, needed, WANTED. I do not condone cheating for any reason but sometimes, it's a lot deeper than what meets the eye. In the case with your wife, having a baby can sometimes make you feel ugly. Before judging her, ask yourself " what have I done for her lately to make her feel wanted and appreciated?" If you have done nothing, then perhaps you should start. But if you have done your share you have to face the fact that she just may be the type who will need and seek attention from other men. In the latter case, prepare yourself emotionally because you will have to let her go.


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## momof4 (Jul 29, 2009)

Contact your cell phone carrier, usually they can provide you with a detailed log of the text messages. Just be prepared to for the worst. Sorry to say this is an emotional affair at the least, hopefully it has not turned physical. Hang in there and good luck.


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## LoveNotEnough (Apr 4, 2009)

Well an update, I did get her phone and found out who it is. I don't even know if it's a physical thing, but even if not it's wrong. The lists of her texts takes up over 100 pages just for one month. 

I told her I needed to talk yesterday, and she said ok. 
I sat her down and basically said, I want to have a civil converation, I don't want this to turn into a huge blowout (an issue we always have, I try to be civil she brings out super b- mode right away).

She says ok, so I start.

I first start off with saying that I know she's been smoking. To some not a big deal. For me it was because it's a promise she made to me when we had our son and has kept since then except during a fight. Now its an everyday thing, but she's hiding it. The hiding and the breaking of promises is what makes it a huge issue to me. 

She immediatly gets an attitude and asks how I know this, and what proof do I have etc. Never answering the question at all. She then tries to change the subject but backfired. She says "and who said you were supposed to be checking my call log". I calmly said "that's the second thing I need to talk to you about". 

I then calmly asked if she was telling me the truth, and if not to just tell me. She told me the same lie etc. I told her I knew she was lying and had proof. She stormed out of the room yelling about how I was horrible and she was tired of it. She said she knew she shouldn't of joined cell phones with "your crazy ass". I cornered her and looked her in the eye and asked her again, who's number is it. She told me the same lie. I couldn't take it at that point and half yelling and half crying began. She said the same thing that I was controlling in, and I always told her the same thing and she was tired of listening to me. I said if you're telling me the truth then lets call the number now, she declined. I couldn't take it anymore and got my keys and left. 

Later at work she found out from the guy that i had texted her pretending to be her. She said that "I was acting like a pyscho" and that I was in the wrong for texting him. She says she's allowed to have male friends, and that she's tired of being controlled, she's been there before and she won't do it again with me. She keeps saying she's done with me and the way I am. 

I guess that's about it. Looks like we're done. I'm heartbroken and empty but hey what can you do right? I know I've never been perfect, but I've always tried to give her everything I could. I feel so horrible for my son. He's only 8 months old and he doesn't even know what's happening. I promised myself I'd never have a child that grew up in a broken home. I guess I failed myself on that one.


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## New Beginnings (Sep 9, 2009)

You need to do a couple things to protect yourself. Also, you need to realize that this isn't your fault. Adultery is a decision your spouse made regardless of what you were doing in the relationship. Secondly, her indifference and hostility to you is not surprising. That behavior is exactly what is to be expected. Some may have immediate remorse but when someone acts like she has, its typically because they are emotionally involved in a "relationship" with that other person. Meaning they have grown serious feelings for the other and you are now the outsider in the marriage/relationship. 

First, I would strongly suggest gathering evidence. If you can afford to, hire a PI to get the proof. You will need to photograph every text message and or get a detailed record from the phone provider. This is a must! 

Second, you will need to confront her. The ball is in her court and she needs to come clean for your piece of mind. Stay calm, getting pissed isn't going to help. Keep in mind she will always blame you for her actions, until she hits bottom with what she has done, if she is capable of that realization.

After everything is out in the open, then you can decide what you want to do about this. But don't kid yourself like I did. It is what your gut instinct is telling you it is right now...an affair. The statements you made about what she said is like a broken record for what I heard myself.


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## ShuffleUp (Jun 5, 2009)

LoveNotEnough said:


> Well an update, I did get her phone and found out who it is. I don't even know if it's a physical thing, but even if not it's wrong. The lists of her texts takes up over 100 pages just for one month.
> 
> I told her I needed to talk yesterday, and she said ok.
> I sat her down and basically said, I want to have a civil converation, I don't want this to turn into a huge blowout (an issue we always have, I try to be civil she brings out super b- mode right away).
> ...


OK I know exactly how you feel right now because I've been through the whole thing. Months ago I found 17 hours of calls and hundreds of texts on the cell bill. 

My question to you is what are you going to do about it? If you need help then let us know - a bunch of us have been through the same situation. 

A couple of things:
- Don't give in to her about being controlling. My wife said this as well. It's real simple - you are only asking of her what any normal husband would ask and she's been violating that. She is going to try to say the controlling stuff, that she feels like you are hovering around her, etc and it's going to be like that for awhile.
- The psycho comment she made - prepare yourself for more of the same. I like that you are going into this stuff as calmly as possible. You will need to remain this way throughout all conversations. 

Beyond that - we need to know what your intentions are in order to help. If you want to fight for your marriage you can. It won't be easy. I'm about 4 months post finding out about this and every day does get a little better and we are still together. Not recovered by any means, but getting better.


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## LoveNotEnough (Apr 4, 2009)

New Beginnings said:


> You need to do a couple things to protect yourself. Also, you need to realize that this isn't your fault. Adultery is a decision your spouse made regardless of what you were doing in the relationship. Secondly, her indifference and hostility to you is not surprising. That behavior is exactly what is to be expected. Some may have immediate remorse but when someone acts like she has, its typically because they are emotionally involved in a "relationship" with that other person. Meaning they have grown serious feelings for the other and you are now the outsider in the marriage/relationship.
> 
> First, I would strongly suggest gathering evidence. If you can afford to, hire a PI to get the proof. You will need to photograph every text message and or get a detailed record from the phone provider. This is a must!
> 
> ...



We or I defiantly can't afford a PI at this point. I have the record of texts but it just shows the non stop texting for hours on end and how it started as soon as she left home and ended when I came home. Nothing outside of that. I've brought all of this to her attention before and it just became a yelling match of how I'm stalking her and shouldn't be checking on her like that. She always says there’s nothing wrong with having a male friend. I just wish I could believe that's all it was.


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## LoveNotEnough (Apr 4, 2009)

ShuffleUp said:


> OK I know exactly how you feel right now because I've been through the whole thing. Months ago I found 17 hours of calls and hundreds of texts on the cell bill.
> 
> My question to you is what are you going to do about it? If you need help then let us know - a bunch of us have been through the same situation.
> 
> ...



I honestly don't know what I want anymore. If this was our only problem then I'd want to fix it. But there are also issues of her being extremely selfish and, to me, just leaving me with all the responsibility of a family while she goes around and does whatever she wants. I don't know if you read or not but we have a 8 month old son who I love to death. I don't want to lose him, and I don't want abandon him. I guess he's really the only reason I haven't disappeared or cut my emotions from this relationship thus far.


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## ShuffleUp (Jun 5, 2009)

LoveNotEnough said:


> I honestly don't know what I want anymore. If this was our only problem then I'd want to fix it. But there are also issues of her being extremely selfish and, to me, just leaving me with all the responsibility of a family while she goes around and does whatever she wants. I don't know if you read or not but we have a 8 month old son who I love to death. I don't want to lose him, and I don't want abandon him. I guess he's really the only reason I haven't disappeared or cut my emotions from this relationship thus far.


Something in this parallels what I am dealing with. I don't have a baby that young but we have a 4 year old. You say you are taking care of the family while she does whatever she wants. What makes you think she would certainly be able to take care of the 8 month old in her fantasy relationship, if you were to D her, and that this would appeal to her as a better outcome? 

What I am saying is my wife can barely handle our 4 year old because like your wife, she is selfish and immature. She doesn't like the responsibility. She's not good at coping and has extreme insecurities as a mother. This isn't good but it gives some insight as to what the A is to her and how to confidently move forward. The A is an escape from that world so I asked her contemplate what it would be like to try to be in her fantasy relationship while dragging our daughter into it. In all likelihood, the OM likes having her and just her and he MAY NOT be interested in signing up to be a parent or splitting his time with a child. She doesn't have to think about parenting when she was with OM which was a huge part of the attraction for my W. Then I had her contemplate what it would be like to just have me take primary custody of our daughter (I would do it) so she could go be with him. Neither of these ideas was pleasing to her in the least bit. She was visibly bothered and confused by either scenario.

I do not doubt that for one minute, the thing that would make my wife the 'happiest' (short term thinking) would be that she doesn't want to leave the marriage (she has never told me she did she just says she isn't happy), but not have to leave the OM either. She truly wanted BOTH (this is where selfishness comes into play and what she wants and so on...). 

And she had been having both for a long time and now I simply asked her to pick which one. See, she and the OM were completely OK with the relationship as it was even though she never left me for him for three years of his pursuit. If he wanted more than what he was getting, then he would have demanded it by now. He got what he wanted and so did she. I was the only one who didn't know, and I am NOT OK with sharing her but I became OK letting her go if that was her choice. 

Now she is in Withdrawal from not seeing or talking to OM for last 2 months. The A was on/off for 3 years so it's going to be rough and it's going to take time. I try not to let her weekly meltdowns bring me down because I know that she was forced to cut her double life in half (one way or the other) and there is really no way she is going to be normal right away. I know that if she had picked him over our family, then she would have lost half her double life that way as well and would not be emotionally in a good place and he would have been the one managing through that. 

So what am I doing now? I am reading books - Love Must Be Tough, Not Just Friends, His Needs, Her Needs - learning what her needs are, and trying to meet those needs. I don't talk about the A or even our relationship. I don't do stuff expecting things in return. I would love for her to give back to the relationship but that is not realistic right now. That is, except for every now and then I have begun seeing glimmers of it (more on that later). See, I am giving and providing and helping her because I want her to see how it can be to have her needs met by me, at a time period where the OM is meeting none of her needs. Day by Day, I am building up positives and he is not. 

So after applying this, she started asking about what I was learning in my marriage books. She started doing some small things that she wouldn't have done before I learned of the Affair. Yesterday morning she made me some eggs. Seems insignificant but she hasn't made me a meal without me asking for something in years. She walks by and sort of scratches my back for a sec. She gives longer hugs. She has offered intimacy a few times. She occasionally tries to talk about the relationship and what I am thinking/feeling. I guarantee this was not a concern of hers in the A. 

She still has bad meltdowns once a week or so. She is going to have to feel that feeling to get past this. It hurts because I sit there knowing she is missing OM or wants to talk to him during these meltdowns, but I maintain a positive attitude and explain to her that this is what she is supposed to feel on the way back to recovery. Guilt is there so that we learn from our bad experiences. I am giving her no reasons to blame me for her feeling this way. She may not 'love' me, but I am giving every opportunity for her to see our home as a comfortable place. She is noticing, even though she is too stubborn to appreciate me much, she is starting to open up and actually tell me thank you, and starting to give back a little. 

I do not mean to paint a rosy picture. It is hard. I am praying a lot, and each week when she has emotional outbursts it wears on me. Also, I could be here tomorrow saying that she left me for him. This thing is not close to healed or recovered yet. But I am working with a completely clear conscience that I am giving this thing the best possible chance for our family to come out whole, and if it doesn't work, it won't be because I wasn't open to reconciliaiton. And it won't be because I just decided to shut down and leave her in her weakest moment.


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## AZMOMOFTWO (Jun 30, 2008)

momof4 said:


> Contact your cell phone carrier, usually they can provide you with a detailed log of the text messages. Just be prepared to for the worst. Sorry to say this is an emotional affair at the least, hopefully it has not turned physical. Hang in there and good luck.


Sorry to butt in on this post but when you say detailed log, is it of the texts or just the numbers incoming and outgoing?


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## chuckf75 (Sep 6, 2009)

I am very sorry for the pain you are going through, been there. No matter what happens your son will be OK if you are a good father, trust in that. 

Your wife is cheating on you at some level and the question is does she want to stop and work on the marriage or not? She cannot continue to have this “male friend” and be married, does not work. You need to ask her if she wants your family or him, it is on her now.

I would forget the smoking thing for now, you have more important problems. Even tell her she can smoke without hiding it from you and you hope she will quit again one day but no matter what don’t lie about it. I had the same issue with my first wife and I think I made it a bigger deal than it needed to be. Smoking is very hard to quit, focus on your marriage right now. GOOD LUCK!


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

You need a VAR, You must record her conversation in her car. Not to bust her (she's already busted), but to see how far its gone, what she says about you. And to get some direction on which way to go. At least you'll know for sure and can adjust your life accordingly.


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## LoveNotEnough (Apr 4, 2009)

AZMOMOFTWO said:


> Sorry to butt in on this post but when you say detailed log, is it of the texts or just the numbers incoming and outgoing?




It's just the number and sent/recevied times.


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