# Am I a horrid person for this...



## Wooodd (Apr 9, 2018)

Hey everyone, I'm new round these parts and I'll start off with an apology for this wall of text that is to come. Great way to introduce myself, I know.

I will start with some background. I'm male, 35 and have been married to L for almost 9 years. I love the bones of this woman, my L. When we first met it was like I'd just realised I had been going through life without my right arm and only just discovered it. I realize how gag worthy this is but its how I felt.

Things were great when we were engaged and all through up to the marriage and the birth of E, but then something changed. After E was born L suffered with Post-Natal Depression. It was small at first, little spouts she had of feeling inadequate and a let down. I'd try to comfort her and reassure her that she isn't a let down at all and the feeling would subside and all would be good again.

As time has gone on though things have gotten progressively worse. Over the past 8 years the depression has developed into anxiety in such a way that has crept up on both of us. Horrible mood swings and L will lose her patience and start screaming over the smallest of things, from me leaving my jeans on the floor overnight instead of pitting them away to her missing her favourite shows.

She tells me regularly that she is a ''terrible wife" or a ''horrible mother" but its so not how I feel. I still love her as much now as I ever did, but when I tell her this I get a smirk and condescending nod as if she doesn't believe a word I say.

Throughout the years I have always been there for her. Attentive to her needs and I've always considered her condition in everything we do. Despite this however she seems to be getting more and more withdrawn from me. We hardly speak much these days besides the mundane, and our sex life isn't even a thing anymore. Its been a whole year. She has me sleeping on the sofa most nights as 'my snoring keeps her up', but this was never an issue before.

Its really starting to take its toll on me. Everything we do is catered around her needs, and there is no longer any consideration towards my feelings or needs. It's grinding me down.

I'm a very introvert person by nature, and while I can be there for her I struggle with opening up myself about how I feel. About a year ago I decided that the best course of action was to write down how I felt and send it to her. I did it as respectfully as I could. I phoned and spoke to her before sending it and she knows how I am so she understood. But her response to this was not as I expected. I was hopeful that she would realise the toll her condition took on me, but her response was just that she was mortified. Its like I had reaffirmed how she felt and this really was not what I intended.

Since then I have been on egg shells around her because I don't want to make things worse.

This leads in into my initial question. I have started to have days when all I think about is how I cannot live like this and I should get out. Does this make me a terrible human? L is not well and I need to be here to support her, what kind of a husband thinks like that?

TLR I must be a douche


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

Wooodd said:


> Hey everyone, I'm new round these parts and I'll start off with an apology for this wall of text that is to come. Great way to introduce myself, I know.
> 
> I will start with some background. I'm male, 35 and have been married to L for almost 9 years. I love the bones of this woman, my L. When we first met it was like I'd just realised I had been going through life without my right arm and only just discovered it. I realize how gag worthy this is but its how I felt.
> 
> ...


Life is too short to be unhappy, set a timeline on how much longer you are prepared to live like this and if it doesn't change and you are not happier then leave. 

i wasted my time in the past and would not do it again.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Is your wife being treated for her anxiety and depression?


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## Wooodd (Apr 9, 2018)

Rowan said:


> Is your wife being treated for her anxiety and depression?


In a fashion. Her anxiety has developed a phobia of medication, so no magic pills but she has weekly CBT therapy through the NHS


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## Wooodd (Apr 9, 2018)

MovingForward said:


> Life is too short to be unhappy, set a timeline on how much longer you are prepared to live like this and if it doesn't change and you are not happier then leave.
> 
> i wasted my time in the past and would not do it again.


This seems really harsh to me though when I'm not having one of those days.

I love L and I want to help her and be there for her.


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

Wooodd said:


> This seems really harsh to me though when I'm not having one of those days.
> 
> I love L and I want to help her and be there for her.


I loved my XW also but I could not maker her happy, eventually all her problems will be your fault.

She needs to figure out what she needs to move on and get better.


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## Steve2.0 (Dec 11, 2017)

8 years of post-partum depression? Seems like an extreme case.. she should seek professional help. There are people that go to school and specialize in this stuff for over 4-5 years... correct her assumption that you should be able to help her through something that actually requires that much schooling

You also need to man up and stop catering to her. You might be building even further stress on her b/c she thinks you are doing all this stuff for her. Do stuff that makes you happy, and you will impact her life and everything around you.

I'd recommend reading the standard - "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and "Hold on to your Nuts".... you will need it but she needs professional help


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Wooodd said:


> In a fashion. Her anxiety has developed a phobia of medication, so no magic pills but she has weekly CBT therapy through the NHS


She has a phobia of taking medication? All medication? So, she won't take anything for headaches or heartburn or muscle spasms? Or, is her "phobia" really more of a strong resistance to taking her anti-anxiety and anti-depressant medications? 

The first can be tackled like any other phobia, through exposure therapies. The CBT might be helpful, if they'll focus on helping her tackle the phobia. 

The second, though, isn't actually a phobia. It's a resistant attitude. Therapy might help with it, but might not. What is just as likely to help is you telling her very calmly and very clearly that you refuse to spend the rest of your life trying to help someone who won't help themselves. Either she seriously addresses her mental health issues, through all available means, or she's eventually going to lose you. Not because you're mean or trying to pressure her into anything. But because that is the reality of the situation.


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## sa58 (Feb 26, 2018)

What about your child, how is this
affecting him/her.? If your wife needs
help with mental issues then she needs 
to get it. Not just for the sake of the 
relationship but the child will be dependent
on you and her for a long time yet?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

No, you're not. Communicate clearly, sounds like you are, keep at it and try to ask her what she would do if she had a friend that acted that way to her H. Myself I wouldn't do anything rash like short time ultimatum to her. I'd try many things.
Don't put up with phobias on medicines.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Wooodd said:


> ....been married to L for almost 9 years. I love the bones of this woman,
> ......and the birth of E, but then something changed. After E was born L suffered with *Post-Natal Depression. I
> .....As time has gone on though things have gotten progressively worse.* Over the past 8 years the depression has developed into anxiety in such a way that has crept up on both of us. Horrible mood swings and L will lose her patience and start screaming over the smallest of things, from me leaving my jeans on the floor overnight instead of pitting them away to her missing her favourite shows.
> 
> ...





Wooodd said:


> In a fashion. Her anxiety has developed a phobia of medication, so no magic pills but *she has weekly CBT therapy through the NHS*





Wooodd said:


> This seems really harsh to me though when I'm not having one of those days.
> 
> *I love L and I want to help her and be there for her.*


OK, a few thoughts. Your wife has some sever mental health problems to qualify for weekly NHS therapy sessions. Is there anyway you can attend one with her and her therapist? You might even need to pay for a separate session for the two of you, while you find a babysitter for your child. You probably need to discuss how you can help her AND GET some of your emotional needs met with a therapist that understands your wife. 

Next thought. Often people will say they are a terrible spouse when they want to give you an excuse to do something they think you want to do. That sort of sounds like what one side of the unspoken part of your post is about. She may feel very guilty and not want you to feel burdened by her condition. Still she is the mother of your child.

That brings up your child. In addition to your wife, Your child should be at the forefront of all your concerns. This has to be hard on her development.

Now as to you. Absolutely get No More Mr Nice Guy by Glover. Read it and study it. Understand that it is about co-dependence and not being an integrated person. You need to figure out how to try to add some things to your life that make you feel like you are proud of yourself. Self confidence and a sense of accomplishment is important to you. One of the things that Glover and many others suggest is a programs called "Getting A Life." For me, GAL was working out and getting in shape and then starting to do long distance running (15 km to half marathons), long distance endurance bicycling (mile centuries), and mountain climbing. Getting finisher medals at running events and bicycle endurance events was fun, but when I got a blue ribbon in my age bracket for a long race, that really was a source of pride and an accomplishment that changed the way my whole family looked at me, especially my wife. 

My advice is to include your daughter in your exercise program. Go for walks with her. Maybe sign up for a kids charity run/walk is she is old enough. If not there are 5 km charity runs that allow strollers. Take her to swimming lessons or take her hiking (even if you have to carry her in a child's pack) or short bike rides with her. Spend extra time with your child. Your wife will probably feel more connected to you for it.

Good luck. If it gets too bad consider some individual counseling for yourself or find some kind of men's support group locally through a church.


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## cc48kel (Apr 5, 2017)

No your not a horrible person.. BUT if you don't do something it will effort you and your son even more. My spouse has anxiety and refuses meds which makes a HUGE difference. I was so upset by his denial that I was seeking legal advice. It's just so frustrating. Now, I'm making sure that the kids and I are taken care of-- outings with friends and family making sure we have fun. I don't want my boys to think his way is a normal way of life.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Wooodd said:


> I love L and I want to help her and be there for her.


That make you a good man.
A man who keeps his word, through sickness and in health.

It also make you a prisoner, Mr. Zenda.

Unless your wife gets on Anxiety and Depression medication you have no hope.
The thing is, even taking these medications provides no guarantee that her condition will improve.

The lack of sexual interest will likely not improve, even with meds.
She has gotten used to sleeping alone, not having intimate relations with her husband.

She may be taking care of her own needs via masturbation. Or, she may not.

I believe you are doomed. You might be able to 'fix' yourself, but not anyone else.

I would do a trial separation to shock her into action.

Tell her that you can no longer stay in a marriage with little love and no intimacy.



TRQ-


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

A person must not reinforce behavior they don't want repeated.

She didn't want you speaking your mind about how poorly she is treating you, so she punished you by telling you how bad it made her feel so you wouldn't do such a thing as speak your mind again. It seems like it worked.

Stand up for yourself and tell her that she can't treat her husband the way she has been and things need to change.

8 years is a lot of momentum to turn around and you will have to stick to your guns.

Do not walk on egg shells anymore.

This sucks to hear, but you have to be ready to lose it all to fix it. Put a time frame on seeing progress. If no progress, act accordingly.

No sex for a year, are you sure she is in the same boat? Better check your phone bill etc. (although don't accuse her of anything...yet).


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

*The thing is I really don't care how much you love her...*

The thing is I really don't care how much you love her... YOU CANNOT FIX HER NO MATTER WHAT. 

And before you go thinking that I am some harsh JERK on the internet, know this, I have lived what you are living. 

My Ex W had a ton of mental issues, I adhered to all of the axioms, "Sickness and health", "A man keeps his family together no matter what", "Man up and take care of your business" and a hundred others. 

I took care of my wife for 26 years, I let my kids be exposed to her craziness far to long, I kept my family together for 26 years. I was super dad, super husband, super everything to every one. In the end it did not make one bit of difference. 

I kept this up for 26 years, until I wound up in the hospital with a stroke. 

Long story short, I finally realized that if it kept it up I would die. 

What I am telling you is this, you cannot fix her, and if you try you will waste your life. Nothing you can do will make her get better. 

We could all speculate what her various conditions are, what the docs missed, other ways to treat. It does not matter, she either wants to get better, or she does not. And buddy, some of them can't get better, and some of them want to but cannot. 

Either way, it does not change anything. You are a human being, you are a man, you deserve to be happy just like everyone else. 

I loved my wife at one time like no other woman, but I could not save her and in the process I almost died. 

But the most important thing is that you have a child to care for, and the child is your most important responsibility. 

Bottom line, you have to divorce her. I am sorry but unless you want a sexless miserable life, and possibly cause harm to your daughter you really have no choice...


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Wooodd said:


> This seems really harsh to me though when I'm not having one of those days.
> 
> I love L and I want to help her and be there for her.


Read No More Mr Nice Guy. Stop facilitating her actions by being passive with her. Your daughter is learning from what she sees. You are allowing your wife actions to harm your daughter.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Wooodd said:


> In a fashion. Her anxiety has developed a phobia of medication, so no magic pills but she has weekly CBT therapy through the NHS


It does not seem to be working. Have a heart to heart with L. This is also not good for your kid to be living in this environment. Tell her yes you are an awful mother and wife and we need to do something about it. Either you go on medication or we divorce. You need to take on headship for your family and take action on this.


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## Wooodd (Apr 9, 2018)

Thank you all for the responses, didn't mean to post and run by my phone was not letting the site load and my only PC access is here at work.

Just to address a few of the points raised:



Steve2.0 said:


> You also need to man up and stop catering to her. You might be building even further stress on her b/c she thinks you are doing all this stuff for her.


The thing is that I don't think that what I do or how I act effects her in this way. I believe that she is quietly oblivious to the impact it has. Its hard for me to open up so its rare that I confront her with it. I'm pretty confident that she believes I do what I do because I'm happy to the majority of the time.



Steve2.0 said:


> I'd recommend reading the standard - "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and "Hold on to your Nuts".... you will need it but she needs professional help


I realise that I am more than a little part of the problem here, my enabling of her condition cannot be helpful long-term, however much peace it may buy me short term. I will for sure look these up and have a read.



Rowan said:


> She has a phobia of taking medication? All medication? So, she won't take anything for headaches or heartburn or muscle spasms? Or, is her "phobia" really more of a strong resistance to taking her anti-anxiety and anti-depressant medications?


No it is a clear phobia of all medication, and not just her own administration. She cannot give E any medication either for fear of overdosing her. Thankfully E is a very healthy child so this does not come up often.

The CBT therapy is currently focused on other elements of her anxiety, which is rather infuriating for me to be honest. If they could overcome this phobia surely this would allow the medication to help with all other aspects of L's condition. But hey, there the pro's. 



Young at Heart said:


> OK, a few thoughts. Your wife has some sever mental health problems to qualify for weekly NHS therapy sessions. Is there anyway you can attend one with her and her therapist? You might even need to pay for a separate session for the two of you, while you find a babysitter for your child. You probably need to discuss how you can help her AND GET some of your emotional needs met with a therapist that understands your wife.


Apparently it would not be helpful at the moment to get me involved, the therapist thinks that it could do more harm than good for me to 'invade' their sessions until more progress is made. This is direct from the therapists office as I called them myself to discuss whether it would be feasible. So far she has only had 7 sessions, it takes waaaaay too long to get referred from your GP.



Young at Heart said:


> Next thought. Often people will say they are a terrible spouse when they want to give you an excuse to do something they think you want to do. That sort of sounds like what one side of the unspoken part of your post is about. She may feel very guilty and not want you to feel burdened by her condition. Still she is the mother of your child.


I don't think this is the case. She will say these things when something doesn't go right, even little things, and she rips into herself why more coarsely than I intimated in the original post.



SunCMars said:


> That make you a good man.
> A man who keeps his word, through sickness and in health.
> 
> It also make you a prisoner


This is exactly how I feel in a nutshell. I try to do right by her, but its pulling me down.



SunCMars said:


> The lack of sexual interest will likely not improve, even with meds.
> She has gotten used to sleeping alone, not having intimate relations with her husband.


If I got to have my L back in all other aspects I would be 110% on board with this. 

Don't get me wrong I do love me a good f........ and my sexual appetite is high, but to have my loving carefree darling L back I would Lob it off without a second though and a smile on my face (ok... maybe not :crying: but you get where I'm going).



I will definitely look up 'No More Mr. Nice Guy' and have a look though. I don't want to facilitate whats going on any longer, but I'm also concerned that taking a harsher approach will push her deeper down the rabbit hole. The last thing I would want would be to make things worse, or even leave her and tip her over some unspeakable edge that she could be teetering on (she has never given any indication that she have any such thoughts, but its getting harder to read whats going on in her head so you never know). 

Thanks again for the reassurances that how I feel is normal and I'm not a monster, time to toughen up I guess


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

She needs more mental health help. She needs more than CBT. And she needs a full panel of medical tests too. Pregnancy permanently changes some women's thyroid levels, for example.

"Manning up" and expecting her illness to go away is like telling a type I diabetic to stop eating sugar. It sounds good, but it isn't the right treatment.

IF she will not seek more intense treatment, then you have some tough decisions to make.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Wooodd said:


> 7
> I will definitely look up 'No More Mr. Nice Guy' and have a look though. I don't want to facilitate whats going on any longer, but I'm also concerned that taking a harsher approach will push her deeper down the rabbit hole. The last thing I would want would be to make things worse, or even leave her and tip her over some unspeakable edge that she could be teetering on (she has never given any indication that she have any such thoughts, but its getting harder to read whats going on in her head so you never know).
> 
> Thanks again for the reassurances that how I feel is normal and I'm not a monster, time to toughen up I guess


You cannot let fear of her going over the edge keep you from doing what needs to be done. She is a grown woman and ultimately responsible for herself. You have spent so long enabling her that you don't know any other way. You need to realize that YOU COUNT TOO and you cannot allow her condition and lack of taking care of it dictate your and your child's life. It sounds like she needs intense therapy to address her issues, especially the med phobia, and you need to let her know that you will be working your way out the door and out of her life if she doesn't take steps to help herself.


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## Wooodd (Apr 9, 2018)

So nearly 2 weeks have passed since I originally posted and in this time me and L have had a very very (very) long discussion about everything that's going on. 

This chat has revealed a lot to me that I didn't even realise were issues. I always believed that L's anxiety was performance related in the things she did as a mother and wife, but her biggest trigger is none of these things its her appearance. :surprise:

It hadn't even entered my head that the fact that she had gained weight and stretch-marks since the birth of E was a factor. The additional weight meant so little to me that I hadn't even registered it as possible concern for her. Yes since E's birth she has gained about 2.5 stone but to be honest I am more attracted to her now than ever. I ain't no temple of manliness either I've probably gained around the same weight in the same period as her. I'm now sitting at 14.5st and shes at around 10st.

L explained to me in detail how she perceives herself, the words she uses to describe her appearance were abhorrent and really took me by surprise. I have tried to reassure her no end that I love her and her body, but she thinks that I say these things out of marital obligation and not sincerity. 

We have agreed to have 1 evening per week where we will make time to be intimate and I'm not talking about sexy time (not unless she wants to, she knows I'm always available in that regard :wink2: and we have agreed to build slowly). I want to use this time to to try and help L to love her body as much as I do and hopefully begin to repair her confidence. I gave her a full body massage followed by lots of snuggling and kissing. No sexual pressure at all, just being together and touching. Hopefully sessions like this will help her to start to see that I love her appearance as much now as ever, and that may start the ball rolling for her to love herself.

Having finally 'opened the floodgates' and talking through everything with L I feel in a much better place, and now armed with a lot more detail on what is running through L's head feel much better armed to try and help her through it. :smthumbup:

I've made a promise to be more open with her and not keep my feelings to myself, and she has agreed to tackle her anxiety a little more head on rather than withdrawing.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Wooodd said:


> Don't get me wrong I do love me a good f........ and my sexual appetite is high, but to have my loving carefree darling L back I would Lob it off without a second though and a smile on my face (ok... maybe not :crying: but you get where I'm going).


Good lord. All this falling on the sword isn't romantic at ALL. It's needy and SO unattractive.

Get the *No More Mr. Nice Guy* book NOW.

And read it 3 times.

Make it 4. Ugh.


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## Wooodd (Apr 9, 2018)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Good lord. All this falling on the sword isn't romantic at ALL. It's needy and SO unattractive.
> 
> Get the *No More Mr. Nice Guy* book NOW.
> 
> ...


This isn't 'falling on my sword' I want to help my wife get better, and I was trying to express that I was willing to do whatever it takes to do so. Can you please explain to me why this is such a bad thing?

After the advice given before in this thread I did go out and start to read No More Mr. Nice Guy but after 9-10 pages of the author describing different men's situations and the way that they all do what they do because they expect that in return they should be rewarded with some form self gratification I just stopped reading. It really wasn't speaking to me. 

I don't do the things I do for L out of some longing for myself, but concern for her. That's it. 

The original post I wrote was borne almost entirely from frustration, and the feelings I had I believe were the result of me believing the wrong thing about what L is going through (please read post #21) and as such what I was doing to help L were entirely the wrong things, leaving me at a loss as to why nothing was helping. Now I know what the issues are I can change how I am there for L and hopefully help her overcome over time.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Professional help, all the way!

Have a heartfelt talk with her, explaining your painful side, and let her know that if she'll seek and start counseling, that you'll be there with and for her every step of the way!

Otherwise, there are no guarantees!*


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## Wooodd (Apr 9, 2018)

arbitrator said:


> *Professional help, all the way!
> 
> Have a heartfelt talk with her, explaining your painful side, and let her know that if she'll seek and start counseling, that you'll be there with and for her every step of the way!
> 
> Otherwise, there are no guarantees!*


I appreciate the input Arbitrator, and we have recently done that very thing (see post #21). The talk helped loads and was long overdue, where now looking for more structured help than what the NHS can offer.

_BTW: you forgot to tell me to read *No More Mr. Nice Guy* :wink2: [/s]_


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## TheBohannons (Apr 6, 2018)

You should read Angelinas thread. Print it out and give it to your wife. I am amazed how many women have the body image problem and how it effects their desires.

You need to make her feel safe in her own home. Safe with her husband. The two of you against the world. Once she understands that a husband can love and lust no matter what she looks like, the dam may break.

Make sure you up your game and take care of her "needs". If it is good for her, the "want" will override the image.

Good luck and have fun.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Wooodd said:


> I appreciate the input Arbitrator, and we have recently done that very thing (see post #21). The talk helped loads and was long overdue, where now looking for more structured help than what the NHS can offer.
> 
> _BTW: you forgot to tell me to read *No More Mr. Nice Guy* :wink2: [/s]_


*That renowned book, is solely for your own, and other men's self-confidence!

IMHO, while a lot of guys may well need that kind of confidence, you do not, and you have obviously chosen the right venue in dealing with your problems!

I wish both you and L all the best wishes in the world!*


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## Wooodd (Apr 9, 2018)

TheBohannons said:


> You should read Angelinas thread. Print it out and give it to your wife. I am amazed how many women have the body image problem and how it effects their desires.
> 
> You need to make her feel safe in her own home. Safe with her husband. The two of you against the world. Once she understands that a husband can love and lust no matter what she looks like, the dam may break.
> 
> ...


 @TheBohannons Do you have a link to the thread your referring too? I did a search for Angelina but nothing pertanent came up.


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## Wooodd (Apr 9, 2018)

arbitrator said:


> *That renowned book, is solely for your own, and other men's self-confidence!*


TBH when I read the bit I did read I got the impression that the book was aimed more at men who are a bit of a ****, and it was written to reassure them that being a bit of a **** is ok. Rather than being aimed at the 'Nice Guy'.

Didn't read too much of it though so could be way off.



arbitrator said:


> *I wish both you and L all the best wishes in the world!*


Thanks man :thumbup:.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

#1 go out and buy yourself a decent bed. Sell the sofa if you have to. You can't deal with this kind of pressure on crappy couch sleep. If your snoring is that bad, a sleep test for apnea may be indicated. Ask your GP. Outing with daughter and outing alone every week. See if there is Brownies group near you for your daughter. Get involved.

That is my prescription for you. She will drive you crazy if you don't take care of your self. you can't help her if you are around the bend.


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## TheBohannons (Apr 6, 2018)

Wooodd said:


> @TheBohannons Do you have a link to the thread your referring too? I did a search for Angelina but nothing pertanent came up.



http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/418649-alright-guys-tell-truth.html

Lead post

Assuming she has had a child/children:
How attracted to your wife or gf are you after she has had children and her body has changed? Be brutally honest! Do you look at her and feel somewhat bummed out that she has loose skin and stretch marks all over? What about more cellulite? Do these things make you miss her former body and is it hard for you to get aroused by her now? 
...asking for a friend ; )

All women with body image issues should read this thread


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## Wooodd (Apr 9, 2018)

Mr. Nail said:


> #1 go out and buy yourself a decent bed. Sell the sofa if you have to. You can't deal with this kind of pressure on crappy couch sleep. If your snoring is that bad, a sleep test for apnea may be indicated. Ask your GP. Outing with daughter and outing alone every week. See if there is Brownies group near you for your daughter. Get involved.
> 
> That is my prescription for you. She will drive you crazy if you don't take care of your self. you can't help her if you are around the bend.


Since we have opened up to each other I am no longer on the sofa, and man do I reel rested. :smthumbup: Didn't think I minded the sofa at all until I started going back to bed. 

My snoring (and boy do I snore) was not the real issue, L was embarrassed about me seeing her naked (her husband of 8 years and partner for 13). I'm pretty sure she still is. This last week has been one of the best in recent memory. We have never been so open with each other as we have been since confronting her, chatting for hours on end in bed each night.

Not sure about showing her the thread @TheBohannons suggested though. If she saw my username on these boards she would know it was me in an instant. I don't know why I chose something so identifiable for her, perhaps subconsciously I was hopeful she would stumble across my initial post browsing the internet and see how I was feeling I dunno. Wouldn't want her to see my post now though, shes a private person and unsure how she would react. Were doing good ATM and don't want to 'rock the boat' (Off Topic: is there a way to change my username to prevent this? Aside from me being here reading that thread would do her good, I'm sure.)

L really does seem in a better place mentally, and a lot happier too. There is a sense of relief with both of us. We still have a long way to go but for the first time in a long time I feel that we can get there, together.

E and I have always have time just me and her, shes been going to Brownies a few years now she loves it. I'm a little apprehensive though as in a few months she goes away with them for *8 days*. :surprise: I've never been apart from E for more than a day before, will be scary for her I'm sure as it is for me and L. Going to use this time though to find a nice little place for me and L for a few days for a surprise escape. :smthumbup:


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I'm happy to hear E is in Brownies. Great stuff for kids. I volunteer with boys her age. My advice remains, Take care of your self. What you are and will be going through is tough and you will need to be your best self to handle it.


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## TheBohannons (Apr 6, 2018)

Print and redact names.


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## Horse on Ice (Dec 22, 2015)

Wooodd said:


> Its really starting to take its toll on me. Everything we do is catered around her needs, and there is no longer any consideration towards my feelings or needs. It's grinding me down.
> 
> This leads in into my initial question. I have started to have days when all I think about is how I cannot live like this and I should get out
> 
> TLR I must be a douche


I'm no expert, but these statements in your first post don't reconcile with...



Wooodd said:


> I don't do the things I do for L out of some longing for myself, but concern for her. That's it.


...this post. Which means, that what @She'sStillGotIt said is good advice. Get the book and read it. The first time I read it, it took me well past the first couple of chapters before I admitted to myself that it WAS describing me. Believe it or not, everyone on this site is concerned about your marriage and wants what is best for you. Most likely because they have been in a similar situation as you or the opposite side and recognize that you can't make someone else better. You can however, work on making a better YOU and that may HELP towards the betterment of the other person.


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## Wooodd (Apr 9, 2018)

Horse on Ice said:


> I'm no expert, but these statements in your first post don't reconcile with...
> 
> 
> 
> ...this post. Which means, that what @She'sStillGotIt said is good advice. Get the book and read it. The first time I read it, it took me well past the first couple of chapters before I admitted to myself that it WAS describing me. Believe it or not, everyone on this site is concerned about your marriage and wants what is best for you. Most likely because they have been in a similar situation as you or the opposite side and recognize that you can't make someone else better. You can however, work on making a better YOU and that may HELP towards the betterment of the other person.


Inappreciate the input and advice everyone here as given me, and believe me it has helped enormously. That being said, that book isnt an answer for everyone.

The statement in my first post which you referenced was borne from frustration, and while there is an air of truth to what was said there I was not happy to just go along with it all the time. Many an argument would be had which would change things for a few days before she slipped back into the 'routine'. With the post being written while I was in that state there was a lot of bias injected into it, the look how much I do and how little she does type of thing. It was very one sided, which in retrospect was not helpful at all. I can be a selfish arrogant prick at times and perhaps in the initial post I should have been clearer about the whole picture.

You last statements though really do hit home. I have been of the mindset that I need to fix L, but coming here and posting has made me realise that I cannot and the best thing I can do is to better myself. I feel that I'm out of the rut I have been in for so long now, and for the time being I am already seing a better attitude from L too. I realise that we have only recently aired our concerns to each other and this is a high which will undoubtedly be followed by more lows, but my head is in a better place so I am hopeful that getting through the lows will be easier going forward.
@TheBohannons that is a legit genius idea, one that makes me feel dense for not thinking about.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

Dump the crappy food. Get rid of refined carbs/sugar/vegetable oils. Go low carb/Paleo/Keto. Get rid of the garbage food and go organic, whole and unprocessed. And move more. Its amazing the myriad effects that inflammatory foods have on the body. 

Keep doing the other stuff you're doing, it appears to be helping.

But, remember the old axiom, you are what you eat. If you eat junk, you'll be and feel junky.


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## Wooodd (Apr 9, 2018)

So I'm sat bored at work (slow day today) and figured why not throw a little update out there...

Things are going well with me and L lately, and I mean *really* well, and figured as there is so much negativity on the boards why not throw a little positive post up. I know there not generally as interesting to read but hey ho :wink2:

The mood swings are still there, but much much less intense and way less frequent. She also has started to own them too and realises what she is doing and as able to calm herself and discuss the issues more rationally. I think this is in part because I no longer react to them, I shut down and ignore her until she does calm herself. Her view of herself is improving too, gradually I'll admit, but she's getting there. 

Her issues around medication are improving too. Again only bit by bit, but its getting there. She can take a paracetamol now if she gets headache, and is taking a daily antihistamine for hay-fever too. 2 months ago she would have gone into a full blown panic attack just saying the word antihistamine so this is a great step forward. She isn't at the point yet where I think she will entertain any form of anxiety medication, and TBH I don't want to push her too hard to try and do much too fast, but I feel that down the road she will be able to.

We have taken to eating better too, gone are the regular McD trips and takeaways. Salad for dinner and I've been cooking us up some pretty healthy tea's after work too. Never thought I would be one to be happy cooking but I am actually enjoying it, thinking about looking at a cooking class or something because although I'm having fun doing it I'm not very good at it (yet). We have been out walking a lot and we're exercising almost daily now too.

Our sex life is on a whole new level of amazing, better than it ever has been really. Anyone who has seen my other thread will now that we have discovered that we have mutual kinks that we were both always too embarrassed to discuss with one another for fear of _humiliation (see what I did there)_ or rejection. I really do think that despite how odd it seams the additional degradation when we ...... is actually helping improve her self esteem.

So, all in all things are good. Its slow going, but every day there seems to be a little more improvement in our relationship and with L's well-being. Not trying to fix everything and just being there for support while I work on myself really has done wonders in such a short space of time. I'm a whole stone lighter myself already and feeling really good, and this is really down to you guys and your advice. Changing my perspective on what I can do to help was worked wonders and I am truly grateful, thank you. :toast:

Sorry for the pointless 'drama-less' post, but I'm in a happy place and figured why not share it. It may even help others who come across this thread to see that you guys know what your talking about and they should listen.


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

It sounds like you and her need a "come to Jesus" moment. In all of your descriptions I never once heard any action plan to CHANGE this situation. It sounds like you need to bluntly tell her you can't live like this and things have to change and you guys need to get her to the doctor and therapist so they can diagnose and help this depression/anxiety. They may change her diet, put her on medication, give her some therapy to help her heal and understand herself and overcome any demons plaguing her. 

You guys are way, way, way overdue in taking some action. You describe as if you've done nothing for 8 years to remedy this. It could be as simple as some medication. Get to the doctors and find out what you can do to help this.


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## Wooodd (Apr 9, 2018)

hinterdir said:


> It sounds like you and her need a "come to Jesus" moment. In all of your descriptions I never once heard any action plan to CHANGE this situation. It sounds like you need to bluntly tell her you can't live like this and things have to change and you guys need to get her to the doctor and therapist so they can diagnose and help this depression/anxiety. They may change her diet, put her on medication, give her some therapy to help her heal and understand herself and overcome any demons plaguing her.
> 
> You guys are way, way, way overdue in taking some action. You describe as if you've done nothing for 8 years to remedy this. It could be as simple as some medication. Get to the doctors and find out what you can do to help this.


Hi @hinterdir, I appreciate the input but feel that perhaps you didn't read the whole thread or maybe just skimmed through.

Since my initial posts we have discussed our marriage extensively and in great detail; what we both want and expect of each other as well as where we believe the other is failing.

We have both made drastic changes to our lifestyles, well-being, attitudes, and behaviours and it has made a huge difference to our relationship. If you look at my past post (post #38) there is more detail in where we are now at.

Your advice is good, and is similar to what I have been given by other posters and is what I am following through with now, and for that thanks.


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