# Are cheaters "supposed" to want to keep the relationship?



## girly (Feb 25, 2014)

I cheated on, and then ended things with my ex a while ago. There were issues in our relationship, mostly in regards to differences in expressing affection and issues with compatability in regards to sexual fulfillment/sexual comfortabilty.

I certainly should not have cheated, and I genuinely regret that I did. The pain I caused was not worth it, not even a little. Anyone thinking about cheating, just don't , seriously. Just leave. So much simpler.

With that said, cheating and telling him about it, did not make me want to run and salvage the relationship. It simply solidified what i'd already felt, that we weren't intimately compatible. During the days after telling him, and the arguments and fighting, he expected and I expected that I would be distraught and desperate to keep him/us, but I wasn't . I was ambivalent. There was no strong desire from me to make him forgive, I absolutely wanted him to forgive me, but not for me. I wanted him to forgive me so he could move on and not be stuck with the pain of having a cheating (slvtty, crappy, horrible, etc) ex-gf.

He texted me recently, asking if I missed him and if I was waiting for him to take me back, I didn't respond. I do miss him, but not like that. I miss our companionship, he was a great friend. Incredible really, always there for me. But that push to reconcile, its not there for me, at all. Should it be? Do I lack a conscience?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

No. You guys weren't compatible in that way. You didnt love him. If you did you would want him. There is nothing wrong with that. You made the mistake of thinking that relationship was the right one. It ran its course.

I dont have an issue with you not wanting to take him back.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

You had an exit affair, which by definition means that you did not want to salvage the relationship. Time for both of you to move on.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*It also might greatly matter as to who it was that you chose to have cheated with! Would your H, perchance, know the identity of the OM?

What if anything, did your marriage vows to him mean to you when you came to cheat? Did you even remotely think of your H or have the least bit of a twinge of concsience when you did it? Or did you do it, knowing full well that he trusted you implicitly?

Regardless, cheating, no matter how well intended or veiled, is usually always the death knell of any married relationship! At this juncture, do him a favor and let him go. No matter how much he loves you or how incompatible the two of you might be, he deserves far better, at least as far as the deception factor is concerned!*


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

You sound normal to me. 

I think when a woman cheats, her emotional needs are not being met. Most women I know work very hard at their relationships. If they are cheating, there is a reason. Otherwise it would not have come to that.

I can imagine that if I got to the point where I cheated, I would not care about reconciliation. I would want to acknowledge the lack of compatibility, too, and free us both to move on.

I think you have a conscience, and it is forcing you to be honest with yourself. And you have been. 

All the best as you move on in your life.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You are understandably conflicted. You wanted him to forgive you so he could move on and not be stuck with the pain of having a cheating (slvtty, crappy, horrible, etc) ex-gf.

If he took you back, it would mean that you were not all the terrible things you called yourself, because his love would cleanse you. But you don't believe in the power of that love, which for your lacked passion. Can you raise yourself up so that you don't have the negative self image?

You are determined never to cheat again. That is an improvement in character.

I don't think you can help him in anyway now, except to say that he has been too kind and that you will always be sorry for what you did.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

No. If you're done, you're done. 
Even some people who had wanted to go back, some of the things I've read about what a cheating spouse should now live with the rest of their life to prove their worth and remorse could simply be too much. 

IMO if you can't or don't want to reconcile in a way that will build your relationship stronger, move past the affair and fix the issues that happened before- together, then don't. You don't owe anyone anything and it does no one any good to live miserable.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

girly said:


> He texted me recently, asking if I missed him and if I was waiting for him to take me back, I didn't respond. I do miss him, but not like that. I miss our companionship, he was a great friend. Incredible really, always there for me. But that push to reconcile, its not there for me, at all. Should it be? Do I lack a conscience?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't play his game.He wants to know that you're hurting as much as you hurt him. He wants some sort of power over his feelings and what happened to him. 

Just step back from it and let him go. Ignore his messages and change your phone number if you have to. Engaging at this point will only cause more upset and hurt feelings.


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## girly (Feb 25, 2014)

Well, those are actually things he called me following my admission of infidelity. He was in the heat of the moment and I don't believe he feels that way about me, I certainly don't. I did make an awful mistake, but I'm human.

I do want him to move on, I don't know if he's dating or not, but I would be elated if he found a woman that he just "clicked" with.



LongWalk said:


> You are understandably conflicted. You wanted him to forgive you so he could move on and not be stuck with the pain of having a cheating (slvtty, crappy, horrible, etc) ex-gf.
> 
> If he took you back, it would mean that you were not all the terrible things you called yourself, because his love would cleanse you. But you don't believe in the power of that love, which for your lacked passion. Can you raise yourself up so that you don't have the negative self image?
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## girly (Feb 25, 2014)

I loved him, I still love him. But its not panty dropping love I guess. Sometimes I think, when did that type of love go away. Prior to cheating, I still had sex with him, it was just... I don't know, different. But I could still orgasm if I wanted. After cheating, I couldn't have sex with him. It was like getting a taste of "normal" sex made it impossible for me to go back to what I had before.



sinnister said:


> No. You guys weren't compatible in that way. You didnt love him. If you did you would want him. There is nothing wrong with that. You made the mistake of thinking that relationship was the right one. It ran its course.
> 
> I dont have an issue with you not wanting to take him back.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

girly said:


> I cheated on, and then ended things with my ex a while ago. There were issues in our relationship, mostly in regards to differences in expressing affection and issues with compatability in regards to sexual fulfillment/sexual comfortabilty.
> 
> I certainly should not have cheated, and I genuinely regret that I did. The pain I caused was not worth it, not even a little. Anyone thinking about cheating, just don't , seriously. Just leave. So much simpler.
> 
> ...


how long had you been together? were you living together?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I like your post. Actually I think it provides a lot of insight.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

You sound much like me, and just as an FYI, I'm a guy. But you and I both had, as someone else pointed out, classic "exit affairs". It doesn't make it right, but there you are...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

If you didn't want to salvage anything then it sounds like you were/are done.

Just don't string people along further.

Sounds like you had an "exit affair."


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

jld said:


> You sound normal to me.
> 
> I think when a woman cheats, her emotional needs are not being met. Most women I know work very hard at their relationships. If they are cheating, there is a reason. Otherwise it would not have come to that.
> 
> ...


I don't think this is the way it is all the time. Some wayward women on TAM have posted stories where they were perfectly content with their husbands in terms of emotional support. But they still cheated due to lack of sex, lack if desire for their husbands, lust, opportunity, and lots of other reasons. 

The "not getting emotional needs met" is a pat excuse that is used and abused way too often.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

girly said:


> I loved him, I still love him. But its not panty dropping love I guess. Sometimes I think, when did that type of love go away. Prior to cheating, I still had sex with him, it was just... I don't know, different. But I could still orgasm if I wanted. After cheating, I couldn't have sex with him. It was like getting a taste of "normal" sex made it impossible for me to go back to what I had before.
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It wasn't love. Maybe infatuation at first, but whatever it was at the beginning never matured into that deep, long lasting committed love that leads to commitment and marriage. 

You probably liked him intensely and had a great fondness for him, but it doesn't sound to me like you were truly ever heads over heels for him. You just thought you loved him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

You could be in one of two places perhaps. I'm no expert.

You could be through the change curve and back out the other side and just done. And this is painful for him to understand.

However, just a warning -- my ex thought she was done, but then kind of realized that she was more than a little in shock at what she had done and thought she was OK and wasn't.

So don't be surprised if there are still unresolved emotions here.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

jld said:


> You sound normal to me.


I totally agree. It sounds like the OP had an exit affair because she wasn't sexually fulfilled. People who say sex doesn't matter are in for a rough marriage. Eventually, lack of sexual fulfillment catches up to people.

The OP took ownership and recognition of the error of the affair, which is admirable. There's nothing really more to say. I would guess that if she ended up here again, she'd leave the relationship first.



> I think when a woman cheats, her emotional needs are not being met. Most women I know work very hard at their relationships. If they are cheating, there is a reason. Otherwise it would not have come to that.


This on the other hand is BULL. We might as well say "Men cheat because their wives don't give them enough good sex". Both are true SOMETIMES, but come on.

Cheaters (men AND women) are usually just selfish and when asked the most common answer is "because I didn't think I'd get caught" by BOTH genders. It's got NOTHING to do with needs not being met.

A wife...just like a husband....who cheats, USUALLY, just wants a little different freaky freaky....and doesn't think they'll get caught. That is the majority of cheating.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

girly said:


> I loved him, I still love him. But *its not panty dropping love *I guess. Sometimes I think, when did that type of love go away. Prior to cheating, I still had sex with him, it was just... I don't know, different. But I could still orgasm if I wanted. After cheating, I couldn't have sex with him. It was like getting a taste of "normal" sex made it impossible for me to go back to what I had before.
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It never really is girly. That is an illusion we tell ourselves.

That is the glittery shine of lust. It fades for everybody.

It's better that its over. Don't respond to his calls/texts.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Dad&Hubby said:


> I totally agree. It sounds like the OP had an exit affair because she wasn't sexually fulfilled. People who say sex doesn't matter are in for a rough marriage. Eventually, lack of sexual fulfillment catches up to people.
> 
> The OP took ownership and recognition of the error of the affair, which is admirable. There's nothing really more to say. I would guess that if she ended up here again, she'd leave the relationship first.
> 
> ...


I tend to agree with her. It wouldn't shock me in the least to hear that a woman cheated because her husband refused to meet her emotional needs. A need is a need. And IMO more often than not men fail to grasp the seriousness of emotional bonding. Myself included.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

sinnister said:


> I tend to agree with her. It wouldn't shock me in the least to hear that a woman cheated because her husband refused to meet her emotional needs. A need is a need. And IMO more often than not men fail to grasp the seriousness of emotional bonding. Myself included.


I said that it's true some of the time, but not as a blanket statement of fact for all cheating women (or men). And as a caveat, I did some quick google searches and they do say that anywhere from 40-59% of women who cheat say that they cheated because they unappreciated, ignored or neglected.

So I will say, it sounds like it's the majority of cheating happens because of that for women. But how much of the "inattentive" husband is real versus an excuse used. We hear it all of the time. Re-writing of marital history, etc. I don't know many people (men or women) who will come out and say "I cheated because I'm selfish" LOL.

I also think our society promotes it as a legitimate reason for women to cheat. Just look at movies or televisions shows. When a woman cheats, it's because her husband is inattentive/distracted/an abuser. When a man cheats, he's a cad. 

Anyway, I'll pull back on my initial post and just say, yes, the number 1 reason a cheating wife gives for why she cheated, after the fact, was she has a bad husband.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Dad&Hubby said:


> I said that it's true some of the time, but not as a blanket statement of fact for all cheating women (or men). And as a caveat, I did some quick google searches and they do say that anywhere from 40-59% of women who cheat say that they cheated because they unappreciated, ignored or neglected.
> 
> So I will say, it sounds like it's the majority of cheating happens because of that for women. But how much of the "inattentive" husband is real versus an excuse used. We hear it all of the time. Re-writing of marital history, etc. I don't know many people (men or women) who will come out and say "I cheated because I'm selfish" LOL.
> 
> ...


I'm not saying it's okay, D&H. And I agree that it is selfish.

I do think men and women cheat for different reasons, usually. No evidence to back it up, though. Just a feeling.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

girly said:


> I loved him, I still love him. But its not panty dropping love I guess. Sometimes I think, when did that type of love go away.


Either you never had it or he lost his edge and you got bored. My old XLTGF was 30 miles away for most of the week, being bored, and decided she could get away with some exciting things with some pilots from out of town. Nothing any deeper than that. We weren't married and neither were you, so the standard is a little different.



girly said:


> Prior to cheating, I still had sex with him, it was just... I don't know, different. But I could still orgasm if I wanted.


Basically, you had crossed him off because he was not appealing to you on the subconscious, autonomic level that determines attraction. That just wasn't there anymore, if it ever was. You can orgasm with an electric dildo, but that doesn't mean you want to devote your life to it.



girly said:


> After cheating, I couldn't have sex with him. It was like getting a taste of "normal" sex made it impossible for me to go back to what I had before.


There is a giant load of brain chemistry that gets released when a married woman or any woman who is theoretically "monogamous" has sex with an outside guy. It's got an even more potent effect if you don't use rubbers.

The fact that he's still wanting to get back together with you after this rather spectacular exit, pretty much brands him as a delta or gamma male, and confirms that most women would not be attracted to him. I take it girls aren't lining up outside his bedroom?


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

JustPuzzled said:


> Interesting thread. I am impressed by the even tone of the replies. How would the attitude to OP be if her BH were the one starting a thread about this?


There is no BH.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

jld said:


> I'm not saying it's okay, D&H. And I agree that it is selfish.
> 
> I do think men and women cheat for different reasons, usually. No evidence to back it up, though. Just a feeling.


Actually there have been "studies" (which consisted of interviewing the cheater on their reasons) and you're accurate.

Like I stated, I saw numbers from interviewing women who cheated giving lack of affection, attention, feeling taken for granted etc. ranging from 40% to 59% as the reason they cheated.

I put quotes on studies and have an obvious flare of "disbelief" because when you ask MOST cheaters, why they cheated, the answer is usually tainted. The whole justification wheel etc.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

JustPuzzled said:


> Interesting thread. I am impressed by the even tone of the replies. How would the attitude to OP be if her BH were the one starting a thread about this?


I can speak for myself only. My response to cheaters is very different based upon how they present themselves and what the situation is.

The OP took ownership and didn't justify her affair. I can accept it at that point. I can't accept a cheater who doesn't because they're not dealing with the issue at hand, just looking for other people to say "it was okay to cheat".

We don't have to say that to the OP because she has come out and said it first.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

I tend to believe that everyone justifies their actions in a way that minimized their own culpability.

I think that people cheat because their value system is broken .

Everything else, lack of sex, lack of emotional connection or a strong attraction for wildebeest, is just incidental.

It's like saying " _poverty causes crime._."
Poverty doesn't cause crime, a broken value system causes crime..

Just like a broken value system causes cheating.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

girly said:


> I cheated on, and then ended things with my ex a while ago. There were issues in our relationship, mostly in regards to differences in expressing affection and issues with compatability in regards to sexual fulfillment/sexual comfortabilty.
> 
> I certainly should not have cheated, and I genuinely regret that I did. The pain I caused was not worth it, not even a little. Anyone thinking about cheating, just don't , seriously. Just leave. So much simpler.
> 
> ...


Did you express remorse to you ex for the pain you caused him before leaving the relationship?


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

JustPuzzled said:


> BBF (Betrayed Boyfriend)?
> BSO (Betrayed Significant Other)?
> 
> OP says she cheated. By definition isn't her ex a B-something?


Sure, I was one myself. Haven't been a BH, yet. As far as I know. But a BBF is quite different from a BH.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Caribbean Man said:


> I tend to believe that everyone justifies their actions in a way that minimized their own culpability.
> 
> I think that people cheat because their value system is broken .
> 
> ...


Ya, I was going to say something similar.

Don't mistake the justifications that people say they have for cheating after the fact for the reasons they do it in the heat of the moment.

Sometimes it's premeditated. Sometimes it's a spur of the moment decision. Or anywhere in between.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

JustPuzzled said:


> Interesting thread. I am impressed by the even tone of the replies. How would the attitude to OP be if her BH were the one starting a thread about this?



"if a woman cheats, there is a reason for it"

Meaning it's her partners fault.....

Wow, things like that could bring me on the verge of believing women really lack logic thinking.


Some women who respond that way should take a look at the misery in the CWI forum.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

jld said:


> You sound normal to me.
> 
> I hope for mankind you are alone in that.
> 
> I think when a woman cheats, her emotional needs are not being met. Most women I know work very hard at their relationships. If they are cheating, there is a reason. Otherwise it would not have come to that.


Sorry, but most women I know work not at all at their relationship.

The men also not, if that comforts you.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

It is very positive that the OP is not being hounded or cursed, but she was not married.

Good sexual chemistry is important. Why commit your life to someone who never rang your bell?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

See_Listen_Love said:


> Sorry, but most women I know work not at all at their relationship.
> 
> The men also not, if that comforts you.


I'm sorry to hear that, SLL. The women I have known, both in Europe (my husband is French) and in America have indeed been the ones to read books on relationships, and to try to make their husbands happy. Few men that I personally have known read books about relationships.

There are many men on TAM, however, who do read marriage books and have put a lot of work into improving their relationships.

Your profile says you have been married between 30 and 40 years. I am guessing you are late 50s, early 60s? I think for men from your generation, it was expected that a woman would be faithful, no matter what. As our society has become more open, that is proving not to be the case. 

Men are realizing that they cannot take their wives for granted. Women have the money and the confidence to move on if their needs are not being met. I think this is the case with the OP.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

jld said:


> *Men are realizing that they cannot take their wives for granted. Women have the money and the confidence to move on if their needs are not being met.*


*Truer words were never spoken!*


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

So you were over your feelings for him but instead of just leaving you cheated and gave him that baggage to carry around for life and into his next relationship? Sorry but karma was invented for people just like you


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

See_Listen_Love said:


> Wow, things like that could bring me on the verge of believing women really lack logic thinking.


Jack Nicholson weighs in - YouTube


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

jld said:


> I'm sorry to hear that, SLL. The women I have known, both in Europe (my husband is French) and in America have indeed been the ones to read books on relationships, and to try to make their husbands happy. Few men that I personally have known read books about relationships.
> 
> There are many men on TAM, however, who do read marriage books and have put a lot of work into improving their relationships.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure if this was intended or not, but I get the sense from your post that you believe more women work at the relationships than men, and I would GREATLY dispute that.

I would say it's 50/50. Many times you have a giver and a taker. Two takers will never work well together and when there are two givers, either one or both gradually develop some "take" LOL. But I don't believe men or women are more predisposed to being takers vs. givers. Especially in the US where there is a subtle "entitlement" culture for young women. As a society, the US spent the last 25 years or so (as long as I've been aware of it, it could've started earlier) focusing on "girl power". It's been FANTASTIC in so many ways. Women are becoming a stronger force in our society and recognizing their own strengths instead of living in the "marry a successful man" culture. The women strive for their own success. As a father of a daughter, I'm so much happier that my daughter is growing up today versus 60 years ago. One of the by products of the "empowerment" has been entitlement though. I believe it's a price worth paying as long as it's dealt with eventually. But this entitlement has bred less desire to make relationships work into SOME girls. It's similar to affirmative action and unions. They were necessary to force change at a faster pace but they also brought some negatives with them. 

When I look at my circle of friends, all but one husband works hard for his wife and family. And I don't just mean providing an income. I mean date nights, treating his wife well, communicating, etc. Now luckily, I'm blessed with a circle of friends who all have strong marriages, minus a few. 

The few weaker marriages (which I would say fall into the type you describe that need work). One husband is oblivious (my brother actually) but so is his wife. They both fly around in their own little worlds while pretending that they have a marriage. I know two men who are the classic "beta-doormat" so the H's do ALL of the work and their wives take them for granted and treat them poorly. And I know one caveman type guy who feels that his wife should take care of him etc. Now he does truly love his wife and really works hard at providing a strong and stable household (financially etc). His wife loves him and appreciates him for being such a good "head of household". (PS they're very religious and believe a lot of the bible's rules for roles as he says). But I would definitely say the wife works harder to hold the relationship together.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

It must be who we hang with then, D&H. The only men I know who work this hard on marriage are the men on these boards. I know some nice men IRL, but none who take the trouble the guys here do.

My dh has read one relationship book in his life, afaik (I will ask, maybe I am forgetting) and it was over 20 years ago, when he was in college, I think: What Do You Say After You Say Hello?

I think he is more the norm.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

girly said:


> There were issues in our relationship, mostly in regards to differences in expressing affection and issues with compatability in regards to sexual fulfillment/sexual comfortabilty.
> 
> With that said, cheating and telling him about it, did not make me want to run and salvage the relationship. It simply solidified what i'd already felt, that we weren't intimately compatible.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I can see that many posters are considering your affair to be an exit affair. But I really don't think we have enough information to draw that conclusion. 

In my eyes, an exit affair is an affair that is instigated (either by the WS or the AP) _after the WS has already decided to end the primary relationship_. The WS figures that (s)he is leaving anyway, so having an affair (a.k.a. a "transitional" affair) isn't so terrible. Sometimes the WS will tell the BS and sometimes not. Sometimes what STARTS as a true exit affair turns into a catalyst for the couple to become inspired to do some serious work on themselves and their relationship. 

So, OP, what was your state of mind BEFORE you began your affair? Were you planning on leaving anyway? Were you on-the-fence? Did you recognize that you had issues, but believed they could be worked out? Answering these questions HONESTLY for yourself will determine what kind of affair you had because...

...when people cheat, they often _demonize_ their primary partner (and the relationship) in order to justify having an affair. As much as you say that there were "issues" in your relationship, it's doubtful that you ever had a serious pow-wow with your ex and explained your concerns to him (in such a manner so he would take you seriously). I say that it's doubtful you did this because if you DID communicate _effectively_ with him, one of two things would have happened BEFORE you cheated: You would have either solved the problem, or ended the relationship. You did neither, so I believe that what you believe to be "issues of compatibility" were never properly addressed. 

People who cheat often exaggerate situations in their (primary) relationship in order not feel (as) bad about themselves. If the betrayed party hears some of the complaints from the wayward, the betrayed is often shocked at how vastly different the wayward partner tends to 'see' the relationship. For example, a male wayward may complain, " We're not compatible in the bedroom because you NEVER give me oral sex!" His partner is surprised because she KNOWS how often she gives him oral sex, and it has averaged out to be about twice a week over the last 5 years. This is part of, what we call the affair "fog". It's a fancy-schmancy name for the "foggy" lens through which the WS sees his or her partner, the primary relationship and the AP. Basically, it's simply the WS not being honest with him/herself about well...him or herself, the affair relationship, the AP and his or her partner. And the "fog" doesn't always "lift" if the WS decides to exit either relationship. 

So, with this information, it's possible that...

...you're in denial about the REAL reason you may not have wanted to salvage the relationship. Perhaps you feel more guilty than you realize, and you know that if you saw your ex every day, EVEN IF HE NEVER BROUGHT UP THE AFFAIR AGAIN, you would have felt extremely guilty, especially if you realize that you've been lying to yourself all along. 

Just some food for thought...

Vega


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## girly (Feb 25, 2014)

I don't think I was planning on leaving, no, I don't think i was. I was pretty content in our relationship. The things I didn't like were things I just avoided and that worked pretty well for me prior to cheating.

The things i avoided (in regards to sex) were oral, foreplay, breast touching, fingering. I just never felt comfortable with him doing that to me. It made me feel... weird, anxious? I'm not quite sure how to explain the feeling but I would rather avoid those sexual things than experience those feelings. The sex though, the actual intercourse, was good.

We did talk about it, a lot actually, but they were combative conversations. I had no way to explain what was wrong, except to say that it didn't feel right, which hardly sufficed as an explanation to him. There was nothing specifically that i could determine was the cause of my discomfort. The more conversations we had about it, the less I wanted to do it. And it really wasn't a huge issue for me, as long as the actual intercourse was satisfying, I was fine. After cheating however, I just couldn't go back to that.

I do feel guilt, remorse, definitely. And sadness as well, for hurting him. And I'm sure i would feel guilty if I had to see him everyday. But none of those feelings makes me want to be back with him, and as far as I can tell, I'm not pushing away in subconscious feelings to be with him again. 



Vega said:


> I can see that many posters are considering your affair to be an exit affair. But I really don't think we have enough information to draw that conclusion.
> 
> In my eyes, an exit affair is an affair that is instigated (either by the WS or the AP) _after the WS has already decided to end the primary relationship_. The WS figures that (s)he is leaving anyway, so having an affair (a.k.a. a "transitional" affair) isn't so terrible. Sometimes the WS will tell the BS and sometimes not. Sometimes what STARTS as a true exit affair turns into a catalyst for the couple to become inspired to do some serious work on themselves and their relationship.
> 
> ...


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

jld said:


> I'm sorry to hear that, SLL. The women I have known, both in Europe (my husband is French) and in America have indeed been the ones to read books on relationships, and to try to make their husbands happy. Few men that I personally have known read books about relationships.
> 
> Yes, and reading a book is only the first step. Doing exercises together and using techniques 'Live' is required to really work on it.
> 
> ...



I wonder if not everywhere men and women take too often their partners for granted. Communiciation is the key skill required here, and self confidence and self esteem are second. I wonder if there could not be a sort of relation script for divorce, where one could see where his marriage/relation is at the moment. That could maybe give the chance to repair before the worst happens.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Jack Nicholson weighs in - YouTube




I always have the impression with Jack Nicholson that he does not need to act, just play himself.


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

Dad&Hubby said:


> Actually there have been "studies" (which consisted of interviewing the cheater on their reasons) and you're accurate.
> 
> Like I stated, I saw numbers from interviewing women who cheated giving lack of affection, attention, feeling taken for granted etc. ranging from 40% to 59% as the reason they cheated.


Right. Because cheaters always accept full culpability for their decisions and never rewrite relationship history or anything of the sort. 



Dad&Hubby said:


> I put quotes on studies and have an obvious flare of "disbelief" because when you ask MOST cheaters, why they cheated, the answer is usually tainted. The whole justification wheel etc.


Exactly. 

This whole thread make my stomach hurt.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

girly said:


> The things i avoided (in regards to sex) were oral, foreplay, breast touching, fingering. I just never felt comfortable with him doing that to me. It made me feel... weird, anxious? I'm not quite sure how to explain the feeling but I would rather avoid those sexual things than experience those feelings. The sex though, the actual intercourse, was good.


I am being Captain Obvious here but these activities are pretty much normal everyday sex stuff. If you enjoy these acts with others but not with him then you really aren't attracted to him. Essentially he was reduced to a human dildo. 

Knowing this it would be wrong to give him any kind of false hope. Best to let him find somebody that loves and wants to be touched by him.

I do have one question though, if you never felt comfortable doing those things with him, why bother to even stay in the relationship past its initial phases?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

girly said:


> I don't think I was planning on leaving, no, I don't think i was. I was pretty content in our relationship. The things I didn't like were things I just avoided and that worked pretty well for me prior to cheating.
> 
> The things i avoided (in regards to sex) were oral, foreplay, breast touching, fingering. I just never felt comfortable with him doing that to me. It made me feel... weird, anxious?* I'm not quite sure how to explain the feeling but I would rather avoid those sexual things than experience those feelings.* The sex though, the actual intercourse, was good.
> 
> ...


Well saying you don't know why isn't going to cut it. You know that. 

Oh and IT WAS A HUGE ISSUE FOR YOU....you just never took the bull by the horns and dealt with it. Your poor ex was the victim of your inability to get your fvcking act together. 

My recommendation is that you take a year off from dating and sex. Get into some independent counseling to figure out why you have this tendency towards disconnect. Your inability to go from physical attraction and infatuation into that deep lasting love had nothing to do with your ex's strengths or weaknesses, or whether or not he was physically attractive or not, or whether or not he was good in the sack. None of your cheating had anything to do with that. You cut him off emotionally...yourself...YOU did that....

The simple truth is that you have the inability to mature within a relationship. A lot of people do....ALOT of people. So get into therapy, figure out what the fvck is wrong before you take this same problem into your next relationship...and the next... and the next...


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## girly (Feb 25, 2014)

I stayed because I loved him, enjoyed his company, etc, all the usual reasons people stay in relationships I suppose. It made me happy. 

And I can't recall if I ever enjoyed those things are not, we were together like 3 years so perhaps I enjoyed it in the beginning? I honestly can't remember but I don't think we were doing those things in the beggining. I know we've always had to use lubricant with me, so I assume there were issues with me being able to get wet even then. But I'm not sure who's "fault" that was.



ReformedHubby said:


> I am being Captain Obvious here but these activities are pretty much normal everyday sex stuff. If you enjoy these acts with others but not with him then you really aren't attracted to him. Essentially he was reduced to a human dildo.
> 
> Knowing this it would be wrong to give him any kind of false hope. Best to let him find somebody that loves and wants to be touched by him.
> 
> I do have one question though, if you never felt comfortable doing those things with him, why bother to even stay in the relationship past its initial phases?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## girly (Feb 25, 2014)

Well I'm certainly not going to take a year off of sex lol, it's an incredible stress relief for me. Counseling might not be a bad idea, everyone can use a mental tune up right? And if I do have issues bonding emotionally, maybe he/she can help me find out.

You are absolutely right, my cheating had absolutely nothing to do with him. Have I given the impression that I believed it did? I cheated because the situation presented itself, and I made the wrong decision instead of the right one.

I do believe the issues were of more importance than I gave them. But it really didn't feel all that important to me at the time, not having them didn't make the sex less pleasurable. And I found having to talk about it all the time annoying and unsexy, it just wasn't a concern for me.



bandit.45 said:


> Well saying you don't know why isn't going to cut it. You know that.
> 
> Oh and IT WAS A HUGE ISSUE FOR YOU....you just never took the bull by the horns and dealt with it. Your poor ex was the victim of your inability to get your fvcking act together.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

MSP said:


> Right. Because cheaters always accept full culpability for their decisions and never rewrite relationship history or anything of the sort.
> 
> This whole thread make my stomach hurt.


Why did it make your stomach hurt? 

He doesn't want to be with someone who doesn't really love him, right? 

Rejection is indeed initially painful. But it is really a gift in the long run to break up before there are children, right?

I think someday he will be thanking her for being decisive and setting him free to be with someone who really will love him.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

jld said:


> Rejection is indeed initially painful. But it is really a gift in the long run to break up before there are children, right?
> 
> I think someday he will be thanking her for being decisive and setting him free to be with someone who really will love him.


One day, I "ran into" my XWLTGF. She showed up where she knew I would be. I was completely sociable and affable. When she was gone, I looked up and said, "Thank you, God."


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Machiavelli said:


> One day, I "ran into" my XWLTGF. She showed up where she knew I would be. I was completely sociable and affable. When she was gone, I looked up and said, "Thank you, God."


I hear you, Mach. I hear you. Thank God for rejection!


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> I am being Captain Obvious here but these activities are pretty much normal everyday sex stuff. If you enjoy these acts with others but not with him then you really aren't attracted to him. Essentially he was reduced to a human dildo.
> 
> Knowing this it would be wrong to give him any kind of false hope. Best to let him find somebody that loves and wants to be touched by him.
> 
> I do have one question though, if you never felt comfortable doing those things with him, why bother to even stay in the relationship past its initial phases?


:iagree:

girly - you said earlier that you couldnt go back to having sex with him after you had sex with the other guy. I think you said after having "normal" sex with the other guy you couldnt then return to having sex with your Boy Friend. but it sounds like the reason the sex with yopur boyfriend was not "normal" was due to you. :scratchhead:
you didnt allow him to do the normal foreplay stuff. sounds strange. 

yes you should move on. But I'm curious what if he decided, based on the way you treated him in the end, that he now hated you. IMO that would also help him move on, since he wouldnt want to be with somone he now hated. would that bother you -- i.e. if you did not remain friends with him and he lost a lot of respect for you etc.


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## girly (Feb 25, 2014)

Yes, you are right. It was abnormal because of me. I didn't feel comfortable with it. And I didn't really need it, so it was really no biggie to me.

If he decided to hate me I would feel sad for him. I think hating someone is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to be harmed. I wouldn't have access to him, so his feelings of hate wouldn't really register. But if it helped him move on, who am I to be against it?

I'm sure he has lost some respect for me, as I have for myself, no one wants to be the cheater, or the dumper.


nuclearnightmare said:


> :iagree:
> 
> girly - you said earlier that you couldnt go back to having sex with him after you had sex with the other guy. I think you said after having "normal" sex with the other guy you couldnt then return to having sex with your Boy Friend. but it sounds like the reason the sex with yopur boyfriend was not "normal" was due to you. :scratchhead:
> you didnt allow him to do the normal foreplay stuff. sounds strange.
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Cheaters will prefer to maintain the primary relationship because it is their failback. Its how they dont lose.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

treyvion said:


> Cheaters will prefer to maintain the primary relationship because it is their failback. Its how they dont lose.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


*So true, treyvion! It's called "Plan B!"

Cake-eating at it's absolute finest!*


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Listen.

Girly I think you mean well and I honestly think you're trying to process this.

But here's what I read when I read this thread:

You're not attracted to your guy and bounced on the first dude you were attracted to when the opportunity presented itself.

You did that. Because your biology told you to and because you decided to take the easy way out.

Ovary up, break up with the guy you're with, and go be single. Do both of yourselves a favor and take accountability for your actions.

You no longer deserve this relationship and you no longer deserve to steal away time from this guy's life who's with a cheater and having crap sex. Let him go find someone that will love him and be attracted to him. 

Then go and do some serious work to figure out if you're capable of monogamy. It's not for everyone.

Where you're at, you're not just being unfaithful, dishonest, and have a complete lack of integrity.

You're actually stealing time from the person you "love."

I wish you both the best.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

See_Listen_Love said:


> I always have the impression with Jack Nicholson that he does not need to act, just play himself.


That's a seductive observation because he colors the characters with his presence. However, if you examine the variety, you'll agree he is actually versatile.

Girly,

You are unusual here because most cheaters get torn up but you seem pretty honest. You were not married. He was a LTBF.

You were not open to him sexually. But you must have been with other men before him.


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