# Benefits of divorce



## Bananapeel

Sometimes the little things just make me smile. My divorce was the beginning of Sept. Average daily electric usage has been around 60% compared to the previous year, since she moved out. Even with child support I have more money at the end of each month than when I was married!


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## Dude007

That Vibrator must have been hooked up to a 50 AMP outlet!!! DUDE


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## JohnA

Good to hear from you again. How are your kids coping and how are you helping them along? I greatly admired how quickly you took action. You avoid a lot of the grief that grid com has gone though. He is up to close to 300 pages. Right now I bet he wishes he had follow your lead. If you ever had second thoughts skim his thread.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/consid...277794-my-wife-thinks-she-love-co-worker.html


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## EnigmaGirl

I'm so ridiculously better off financially than I was when married to my ex. I literally was able to save a bit over 90% of my income and can retire early next year. Bad marriages just leech money.


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## BetrayedDad

Even though my ex worked full time she spent about as much as she made so when she left my net impact was basically nothing lol.

Good riddens....


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## SARAHMCD

Agree on the finances. No more worries about my Ex skimming money for guns, stockpiling ammo, or buying prescription drugs online. No more being around his constant negativity. 
Life is much more peaceful being on my own.


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## SecondTime'Round

JohnA said:


> Good to hear from you again. How are your kids coping and how are you helping them along? I greatly admired how quickly you took action. You avoid a lot of the grief that grid com has gone though. He is up to close to 300 pages. Right now I bet he wishes he had follow your lead. If you ever had second thoughts skim his thread.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/consid...277794-my-wife-thinks-she-love-co-worker.html


Like a boss! 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## Florida_rosbif

I put this in the wrong thread it seems:

Makes me think of a colleague if mine who divorced his wife. He then married a lady who was herself divorced. They then organised their lives to have the kids from both previous marriages on the same week, so they alternated a week with a house full of kids then a week just hanging out as a couple. On their off weekend they would do mini breaks and visit around Europe, sight seeing, screwing, drinking and playing golf.

Now, if you regularly did mini breaks like that but paid a child minder to look after your kids, you would be a "bad" and selfish parent, and would probably feel guilty. However, if the kids are with the previous spouse it's completely normal and you're free as a bird!

It actually made divorce seem quite appealing, even if I was happily married at the time!


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## kristin2349

SARAHMCD said:


> Agree on the finances. No more worries about my *Ex skimming money for guns, stockpiling ammo, or buying prescription drugs online. *No more being around his constant negativity.
> Life is much more peaceful being on my own.


:surprise:

Wow, pretty lethal uses of marital funds, that makes using a lot of electricity seem pretty tame.


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## arbitrator

*Well, at least I don't have to lay awake nights wondering who my RSXW is chatting online with long after I went to bed wondering just when she might be joining me ~ all while believing it was her longtime college GF that she was communicating with; even worrying about who she is "doing" on her numerous road trips away from home while away for supposed legitimate business purposes while I'm staying at home and oblivious to it all; and then 
coming right back home to have sex with me as if she really missed me during her travels, and I obliging her as any good and faithful husband would, not even entertaining that there might be the presence of an STD in the mix!

What I don't really miss about marriage to her is being wealthy, reluctantly around her kids tattoos, their dope head friends, and their array of illegal drugs, and of being placated and lied to!

I do miss the family horses, working the family ranch, and such ... but guess what? I now have a brand new ranch to work and I'm far more the happier for it!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nomorebeans

I don't miss his constant criticism and disregard for my feelings at every turn. Sh!t. Why did I marry this tool, again?


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## Ynot

Yep I am starting to see some of the advantages. I just checked my bank accounts. At the moment I have more in the bank than when I she left (much more in fact) or when I got here after liquidating our assets. And that doesn't even begin to consider the money that I am owed!
I can spend my money how I want to spend it. I can go where I want to go. I can stay out as late as I want to. I can watch whatever I want to on TV. I can talk to whoever I want to. I can see whoever I want to. I am free to indulge in whatever strikes my fancy.


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## Sammy64

The Benefits of Divorce.. before my divorced was final, i could alrdy see the back account grow after she moved out, and that's after i took over some of the community debt before the divorce. After the divorce, i sold my home, paid everything off that was giving to me by the decree. Now, i don't get bills, besides the ones i need to live on (mortgage, electricity and water) and almost a yr salary saved, and the divorce was only this April.


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## Bananapeel

Dude007 said:


> That Vibrator must have been hooked up to a 50 AMP outlet!!! DUDE


You know I could never figure out before why she wanted the 220 volt outlet in the bedroom...JK


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## NoMoreTears4me

Bananapeel said:


> Sometimes the little things just make me smile. My divorce was the beginning of Sept. Average daily electric usage has been around 60% compared to the previous year, since she moved out. Even with child support I have more money at the end of each month than when I was married!


I have had the same experience. Lowest my electric has ever been is 270 highest was 550.

Last 2 months, 166 and 114. 

I feel ya. This is defiantly a big benefit.


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## NoMoreTears4me

One big benefit to me is I don't have to walk around on egg shells anymore. Don't have to worry if something I say will trigger her leaving. I don't have to keep looking for signs that she loves me anymore. 

Its done and over. 

I can now just live. I don't have to worry about what kind of idiotic decisions she makes anymore. I know a lot of people say it but its true in my case. My ex is dumb as a stack of bricks. 

I guess I am too for marrying her.


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## tom67

LED lightbulbs are cheaper now than ever and use like $2 a year energy wise.
GE LED 60-Watt Light Bulb (2-Pack) - Soft White : Target


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## Married but Happy

I got to have sex again! (Sometimes with the lights on, too!)


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## SARAHMCD

Married but Happy said:


> I got to have sex again! (Sometimes with the lights on, too!)


:smthumbup:

I forgot to mention this great benefit!


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## Bananapeel

JohnA said:


> Good to hear from you again. How are your kids coping and how are you helping them along? I greatly admired how quickly you took action. You avoid a lot of the grief that grid com has gone though. He is up to close to 300 pages. Right now I bet he wishes he had follow your lead. If you ever had second thoughts skim his thread.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/consid...277794-my-wife-thinks-she-love-co-worker.html


Hi @JohnA. The kids are coping well and have adapted. They still sometimes say they wish we were still married, which I understand. I also wish this whole mess never happened, but we can't change the past or control other people's actions. At least I don't have a single regret in how I handled things or the direction my life is taking given the circumstances that I had to face. At times it's a bit depressing thinking about the breakdown of a cohesive family unit, but in its place I get to raise my kids the way I want, have more time for myself, and more money. So overall things are working out.


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## just got it 55

Okay Guys I have a pretty good thing going on in my marriage but maybe I should let it turn to sh!t to get happier!!

J/K

55


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## ChargingCharlie

When I was single and saving tons of money (I only bought what I needed to buy), my dad would say "two can live as cheaply as one" - this was his way of saying that I should get married. 

Today, I make over twice as much, wife makes decent $, yet I feel like that we're going backwards. Wife knows less about money than our dog, and thinks that we have a magic wand that just makes money (her theory is that since she has a job, she can buy what she wants). Now she throws food out every week, had Christmas cards made last year with the kids on them that she spent about $200 on that she never found time to get out (found time to play on the computer, but just didn't get time to get the cards out), keeps lights on in the house if she's not in the room (every night I come home and the light is on in the kitchen and she's not in the kitchen), and gives her dumbass drama queen sister money behind my back because sister can't live within her means. Whenever we go out to eat with other people, she feels obligated to offer to pay for their meal (I put a stop to that).

I can see how OP is saving tons of money - even though the mortgage payment is higher, if I was single, I'd be putting tons of $ away. Now whatever comes in just goes back out.


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## knobcreek

How do you get past the fear of being alone? That's my greatest worry about divorce, I wouldn't know how to adjust to being alone after living with someone for the better part of 15 years, then add in children running around, dogs, etc... To transition to just myself is a terrifying thought, primarily because I don't think I would love the company that much :laugh:


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## Bananapeel

knobcreek said:


> How do you get past the fear of being alone? That's my greatest worry about divorce, I wouldn't know how to adjust to being alone after living with someone for the better part of 15 years, then add in children running around, dogs, etc... To transition to just myself is a terrifying thought, primarily because I don't think I would love the company that much :laugh:


I'm naturally somewhat introverted so it was a quick adjustment period. Plus with the extra money I have gone on two mini (out of state) vacations with friends in the past couple of months. I'm naturally frugal which helps a lot though. 


My XWW was a SAHM who was very bad with money, so even with paying child support, I'm much better off not paying her car payment, student loans, restaurants, shopping, food, electricity, cell phone, insurance, etc.


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## SARAHMCD

knobcreek said:


> How do you get past the fear of being alone? That's my greatest worry about divorce, I wouldn't know how to adjust to being alone after living with someone for the better part of 15 years, then add in children running around, dogs, etc... To transition to just myself is a terrifying thought, primarily because I don't think I would love the company that much :laugh:


When I start to feel a little lonely or sorry for myself, I just think about what life would be like if my ex was still sitting beside me and I breathe a sigh of relief. Then go do whatever the f*** I want to do; read a book, go for a run or bike ride, call a friend, have a nap, binge watch Netflix, etc. etc. What is terrifying about that? What exactly are you afraid of?


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## jld

knobcreek said:


> How do you get past the fear of being alone? That's my greatest worry about divorce, I wouldn't know how to adjust to being alone after living with someone for the better part of 15 years, then add in children running around, dogs, etc... To transition to just myself is a terrifying thought, primarily because I don't think I would love the company that much :laugh:


I think you need to work on your relationship with your wife before you contemplate divorce. 

Ponder the advice MEM gave you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3Xnocharm

I have less money now but I like knowing exactly WHERE my money is going, since I am the only one spending it! I also LOVE being able to keep my house at the temperature that I am comfortable with! (not to mention no walking on eggshells and being relentlessly criticized for breathing....!)


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## FeministInPink

SARAHMCD said:


> knobcreek said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do you get past the fear of being alone? That's my greatest worry about divorce, I wouldn't know how to adjust to being alone after living with someone for the better part of 15 years, then add in children running around, dogs, etc... To transition to just myself is a terrifying thought, primarily because I don't think I would love the company that much :laugh:
> 
> 
> 
> When I start to feel a little lonely or sorry for myself, I just think about what life would be like if my ex was still sitting beside me and I breathe a sigh of relief. Then go do whatever the f*** I want to do; read a book, go for a run or bike ride, call a friend, have a nap, binge watch Netflix, etc. etc. What is terrifying about that? What exactly are you afraid of?
Click to expand...

My XH was rarely home at the same time as I, because we worked opposing schedules (him week nights & Sat nights, me Mon-Fri 9-5). So on one hand, it wasn't terribly different, because I was used to spending most of my awake time alone. But during the times that we normally would have been together (Saturday am/afternoons, Sundays, Monday evenings), it was actually a blessed relief to not have him around. To not have him silently judging me, ignoring me, refusing to see me. Being around him caused me so much pain, stress, and unhappiness. So much so that my hair was literally falling out. Like Sarahmcd, if I ever started to feel lonely, I just reminded myself of how horrible it was to be in the same room with him, and it the loneliness disappears, replaced by great joy.


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## FeministInPink

3Xnocharm said:


> I have less money now but I like knowing exactly WHERE my money is going, since I am the only one spending it! I also LOVE being able to keep my house at the temperature that I am comfortable with! (not to mention no walking on eggshells and being relentlessly criticized for breathing....!)


Yes, I definitely have less money now... keeping the apartment we had together broke me financially. I recently moved and downsized, and I'm much more comfortable now--I just wish I had been able to do that earlier. Even so, I'm glad for the financial independence, and not having the instability of not knowing how much money he would bring in on any given week. (As a bar manager, his income was all tips. And recently, I've been made aware that he might have been spending money on cocaine, which explains why his income dropped significantly but the bar managed to stay open.) 

So, even though I have less, I like knowing exactly how much is coming in and exactly where it is going. I don't have as much fun money as I used to, so I don't get sushi carryout or go shopping as much as I used to... but I'm so much happier now, I've found that I don't really need that.


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## FeministInPink

But I think the biggest benefit by far is that I now have the freedom to live the life that I want to live, the opportunity to seek and find someone who is truly right for me and the life I want to live, and that courage to do so.


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## knobcreek

SARAHMCD said:


> When I start to feel a little lonely or sorry for myself, I just think about what life would be like if my ex was still sitting beside me and I breathe a sigh of relief. Then go do whatever the f*** I want to do; read a book, go for a run or bike ride, call a friend, have a nap, binge watch Netflix, etc. etc. What is terrifying about that? What exactly are you afraid of?


Ok maybe I just don't dislike my wife enough to contemplate it yet? :grin2: I don't do well alone, divorce terrifies me not because of the loss of my particular wife, but being alone, and fearing I'll always be alone. it's a scary thought for me.


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## Married but Happy

knobcreek said:


> Ok maybe I just don't dislike my wife enough to contemplate it yet? :grin2: I don't do well alone, divorce terrifies me not because of the loss of my particular wife, but being alone, and fearing I'll always be alone. it's a scary thought for me.


You could get a cat - fairly low maintenance, and you won't be alone. A living creature can make a huge difference, and even though they don't talk, they can be much better companions than some humans, especially exes.


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## SARAHMCD

knobcreek said:


> Ok maybe I just don't dislike my wife enough to contemplate it yet? :grin2: I don't do well alone, divorce terrifies me not because of the loss of my particular wife, but being alone, and fearing I'll always be alone. it's a scary thought for me.


Did you ever live alone prior to being with your wife? It can be a hard thing to contemplate when you've never done it. First you need to decide if your relationship is worth working out. Only you can make that decision. But don't stay in it if the ONLY reason is you are afraid of being alone. You will be fine. Believe me. It will be difficult, at first, there's no denying that, but you WILL adjust. You fill your life with friends, other family members, work, hobbies, activities and reaching a state of peace within yourself. As for fearing you will always be alone, well, life has no guarantees. 

On the upside, you could end up in a place you never dreamed possible. I'm more hopeful about my life now than I have been in a VERY long time. I've learned a lot about myself and I'm confident I can bring more into a relationship with the RIGHT person now as well.


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## MRR

SARAHMCD said:


> When I start to feel a little lonely or sorry for myself, I just think about what life would be like if my ex was still sitting beside me and I breathe a sigh of relief. Then go do whatever the f*** I want to do; read a book, go for a run or bike ride, call a friend, have a nap, binge watch Netflix, etc. etc. What is terrifying about that? What exactly are you afraid of?


ding. ding. ding. 

Granted, I have always appreciated my alone time.


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## tech-novelist

knobcreek said:


> Ok maybe I just don't dislike my wife enough to contemplate it yet? :grin2: I don't do well alone, divorce terrifies me not because of the loss of my particular wife, but being alone, and fearing I'll always be alone. it's a scary thought for me.


I see no reason to believe that you will always be alone. You seem like a guy who should be able to find a better companion than your wife without too much effort.


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## Ynot

knobcreek said:


> How do you get past the fear of being alone? That's my greatest worry about divorce, I wouldn't know how to adjust to being alone after living with someone for the better part of 15 years, then add in children running around, dogs, etc... To transition to just myself is a terrifying thought, primarily because I don't think I would love the company that much :laugh:


This^^^^^ is one of the greatest fears of mankind. But the reality is that you shouldn't be in a relationship until you are truly comfortable being by your self. Being afraid of your self promotes codependency and that is not a healthy basis for a relationship. I understand that many people exist in codependent relationships of years, but you can never truly be happy until you are able to accept yourself. 
I speak from experience. I was once very much like you. My divorce devastated me, until I learned to be comfortable with myself. My fear of being alone was what kept me in the unsatisfying marriage I had been in for 24 years and it is what left me terrorized when it ended. 
Moving forward you would find that it won't kill you. Beyond that you will find it liberating to get to know your self and be comfortable with just being by your self. I know in the future, that whatever relationship I have with others will be much healthier and be based on a secure feeling of who I am. For most of life I felt as though I were living a lie and I was uncomfortable in my own skin. 
If this is truly a fear that you have - you must face this fear and defeat it. No one is going to save you but you.
That is not to say you should dump your W, but you can never really love another until you love your self.


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## ChargingCharlie

BetrayedDad said:


> Even though my ex worked full time she spent about as much as she made so when she left my net impact was basically nothing lol.
> 
> Good riddens....


Ha, yep I can certainly relate to this. Mine also works full-time (and complains about her job every day), but she has the attitude that she can spend what she wants as she has a job (I can think of a couple of instances where she went out and purchased something for over a couple hundred dollars, and then got rid of it after a few weeks - it was OK because she has a job and can spend the money). If it wasn't for the health insurance (which is great), I wonder if we'd be better off financially if she became a SAHM. Flip side is that she'd have the kids a lot more, and that tends to stress her out, and I've been through that and it wasn't pleasant.


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## ChargingCharlie

knobcreek said:


> Ok maybe I just don't dislike my wife enough to contemplate it yet? :grin2: I don't do well alone, divorce terrifies me not because of the loss of my particular wife, but being alone, and fearing I'll always be alone. it's a scary thought for me.


Divorce (or rather the thought of divorce) is terrifying, for a myriad of reasons. Being alone, the financial ramifications, friends, family, etc. 

In my case, even though I probably should consider it, the thought of not seeing my kids when I want, the cost of divorce, the potential loss of retirement savings that I've accumulated over the years, the loss of friends that I've had for years (many of them are friends of hers, and my guess is that they would side with her if I initiated a divorce) - these are all reasons that make me pause, even though I don't really like being around her that much. I was alone most of the time until my mid-30's, but during that time I had one buddy that I spent a lot of time with. He's now married and I rarely see him even though he lives less than ten miles away. 

If kids weren't in the picture, I'd probably consider it, although my not liking her that much came after the kids arrived.


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## FeministInPink

knobcreek said:


> Ok maybe I just don't dislike my wife enough to contemplate it yet? :grin2: I don't do well alone, divorce terrifies me not because of the loss of my particular wife, but being alone, and fearing I'll always be alone. it's a scary thought for me.


So, I don't know your whole story, but I will say this: fear of being alone is a HORRIBLE reason to stay with someone. If that is the only reason you are still with your wife, then you are being incredibly unfair to your wife, because you're keeping her from finding someone who will make her happy and who will give her a happy relationship. And you're also denying that for yourself. 

I think my XH was deeply unhappy for a long time. I think he was deeply unhappy and denied it; I think he stopped loving me a long time before I realized it, maybe even before we married. And I think he stuck around because he was afraid of being alone. He's always been a serial monogamist; we were separated for only 4 months before he found a new girlfriend, and that was the longest amount of time he had ever been "single." And it's all because he's afraid to be alone. If he had just broken up with me/left me when he realized he was unhappy or that he didn't love me, then it would have saved me a LOT of pain. Our marriage wouldn't have devolved into an emotionally abusive situation. I wouldn't have wasted most of my 20s and early 30s with a man who didn't love me. I wouldn't have had to put myself back together after he broke me emotionally.

If you're just joking around, and there are better reasons to stay, then feel free to dismiss all of the above.


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## knobcreek

FeministInPink said:


> So, I don't know your whole story, but I will say this: fear of being alone is a HORRIBLE reason to stay with someone. If that is the only reason you are still with your wife, then you are being incredibly unfair to your wife, because you're keeping her from finding someone who will make her happy and who will give her a happy relationship. And you're also denying that for yourself.


It's not the only reason but it's a big driver. I love my wife, I'm just not sure we're good together though. I'm realizing I've been dealing with self-loathing since High School, I hid it well and just went through life miserable basically putting on a mask of what I felt people wanted to see. I wrestled for 13 years and was all state with scholarships to college, and I fvcking HATED wrestling, everything about it, the practice, the anxiety, the sucking weight, literally everything about the damn sport I despised but I did it because that's what was expected of me and earned me some much needed kudos from people.

No matter what I did in life I've always felt worthless, and not one accomplishment I earned did I ever care about. But I'm at the point where I don't even know who I am anymore so how can I say we should be married or that we're good together? Especially when I look at our rocky past and the fact that we married as basically kids under duress? I married out of some false sense of obligation, and reconciled for the same reason. She's a child of an alcoholic and I barely actually know her, she has a wall around her, we've been together 15 years but we're like strangers. There's of course a lot of love, but I don't think we've ever really connected at a deep level. We both have a lot of pathology in our past, I have alcoholism and violence in my upbringing, her mother died of alcoholism and she got pregnant at 19, I was a dad and bread winning at 22. We've come a long way together, we're both in grad school with professional jobs, but I'm just starting to deal with my issues, she's refusing to, I don't know that that's going to bode well for us.


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## Dude007

Cure for loneliness? Spend an inordimant amount of time ALONE
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tech-novelist

knobcreek said:


> It's not the only reason but it's a big driver. I love my wife, I'm just not sure we're good together though. I'm realizing I've been dealing with self-loathing since High School, I hid it well and just went through life miserable basically putting on a mask of what I felt people wanted to see. I wrestled for 13 years and was all state with scholarships to college, and I fvcking HATED wrestling, everything about it, the practice, the anxiety, the sucking weight, literally everything about the damn sport I despised but I did it because that's what was expected of me and earned me some much needed kudos from people.
> 
> No matter what I did in life I've always felt worthless, and not one accomplishment I earned did I ever care about. But I'm at the point where I don't even know who I am anymore so how can I say we should be married or that we're good together? Especially when I look at our rocky past and the fact that we married as basically kids under duress? I married out of some false sense of obligation, and reconciled for the same reason. She's a child of an alcoholic and I barely actually know her, she has a wall around her, we've been together 15 years but we're like strangers. There's of course a lot of love, but I don't think we've ever really connected at a deep level. We both have a lot of pathology in our past, I have alcoholism and violence in my upbringing, her mother died of alcoholism and she got pregnant at 19, I was a dad and bread winning at 22. We've come a long way together, we're both in grad school with professional jobs, but I'm just starting to deal with my issues, she's refusing to, I don't know that that's going to bode well for us.


First you need to figure out who you are and what you want. The rest will be a lot easier after that.


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## where_are_we

Bananapeel said:


> Sometimes the little things just make me smile. My divorce was the beginning of Sept. Average daily electric usage has been around 60% compared to the previous year, since she moved out. Even with child support I have more money at the end of each month than when I was married!


Too funny. Awesome! I noticed the same thing with my electrical bill. It cut in half the month he left.

In fact, today I got the clean up bill (for our budget plan) and instead of getting the usual $300 settle up I have an $80 credit. 

Other good things for me: 
one less person to clean up after
There are no little curly body/ball hairs all over the bathroom 
No piss on the walls or floor in my bathroom
I have no one to talk to still, but no one is here ignoring me
I can do whatever the he!! I want


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## Ynot

knobcreek said:


> It's not the only reason but it's a big driver. I love my wife, I'm just not sure we're good together though. I'm realizing I've been dealing with self-loathing since High School, I hid it well and just went through life miserable basically putting on a mask of what I felt people wanted to see. I wrestled for 13 years and was all state with scholarships to college, and I fvcking HATED wrestling, everything about it, the practice, the anxiety, the sucking weight, literally everything about the damn sport I despised but I did it because that's what was expected of me and earned me some much needed kudos from people.
> 
> No matter what I did in life I've always felt worthless, and not one accomplishment I earned did I ever care about. But I'm at the point where I don't even know who I am anymore so how can I say we should be married or that we're good together? Especially when I look at our rocky past and the fact that we married as basically kids under duress? I married out of some false sense of obligation, and reconciled for the same reason. She's a child of an alcoholic and I barely actually know her, she has a wall around her, we've been together 15 years but we're like strangers. There's of course a lot of love, but I don't think we've ever really connected at a deep level. We both have a lot of pathology in our past, I have alcoholism and violence in my upbringing, her mother died of alcoholism and she got pregnant at 19, I was a dad and bread winning at 22. We've come a long way together, we're both in grad school with professional jobs, but I'm just starting to deal with my issues, she's refusing to, I don't know that that's going to bode well for us.


Once again all I can say is I feel for you. I spent 24 years in my marriage. I know I felt love , as much as I understood what love was. But that is not the same thing as having a connection. I thought I knew what marriage was all about, but for most of it I felt like I was on the outside looking in. I felt like I had a role to play and everything I did was filtered thru that mindset of how would a (husband/father/parent) react to this situation instead of how would I react to that situation. I felt like a stranger in my own skin. I did what I thought I was supposed to do and pretended to like it because I was supposed to like it. 
I really think you need to see a counselor to get to the root of your issues. I am just now starting to understand who I am and what I want. Sometimes it feels so foreign and I think I am letting someone down by being me. I have to remind myself that I am me and nobody else has to live with the choices that I make but me. Nobody is coming to save me. Or you!


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## FeministInPink

technovelist said:


> knobcreek said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not the only reason but it's a big driver. I love my wife, I'm just not sure we're good together though. I'm realizing I've been dealing with self-loathing since High School, I hid it well and just went through life miserable basically putting on a mask of what I felt people wanted to see. I wrestled for 13 years and was all state with scholarships to college, and I fvcking HATED wrestling, everything about it, the practice, the anxiety, the sucking weight, literally everything about the damn sport I despised but I did it because that's what was expected of me and earned me some much needed kudos from people.
> 
> No matter what I did in life I've always felt worthless, and not one accomplishment I earned did I ever care about. But I'm at the point where I don't even know who I am anymore so how can I say we should be married or that we're good together? Especially when I look at our rocky past and the fact that we married as basically kids under duress? I married out of some false sense of obligation, and reconciled for the same reason. She's a child of an alcoholic and I barely actually know her, she has a wall around her, we've been together 15 years but we're like strangers. There's of course a lot of love, but I don't think we've ever really connected at a deep level. We both have a lot of pathology in our past, I have alcoholism and violence in my upbringing, her mother died of alcoholism and she got pregnant at 19, I was a dad and bread winning at 22. We've come a long way together, we're both in grad school with professional jobs, but I'm just starting to deal with my issues, she's refusing to, I don't know that that's going to bode well for us.
> 
> 
> 
> First you need to figure out who you are and what you want. The rest will be a lot easier after that.
Click to expand...

I agree with technovelist. You don't know what to do because you've never really listened to yourself, so you don't know what you want--or what you need. Focus on you, figuring out who you are and what you want. Once you've got that figured out, your path and the right choices for you will be much more clear. And your wife? You can't force her to undertake this same voyage of self-discovery, but it is possible that you doing so may inspire her. Maybe not.

But if she chooses not to grow and let you really know her, the two of you will never be able to have a healthy relationship. You're both children of alcoholics, so you've both undoubtedly developed and perpetuated a lot of unhealthy behavioral patterns. You're at the point where you recognize it, and want to change. Your wife may not be at that same point. She may never reach that point. She may be incapable of bringing down that wall for you, and you will have to decide if you can live with that. (Not now. You're not ready to make that decision right now.)

Are you in counseling? Not necessarily marriage counseling, but individual counseling. These are difficult--almost impossible--waters to navigate alone, and it helps to have someone who knows what they are talking about to help guide you through this process.


----------



## RisingSun

Dude007 said:


> Cure for loneliness? Spend an inordimant amount of time ALONE
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Spending a lot of time alone and being ok with that is the acid test. I'm getting there (so much easier with this second separation).

That said, if you need to lean on someone and want to be with friends, go ahead. In time, that will shift from a (desperate?) need to something you simply enjoy.


----------



## Threeblessings

I am 6 weeks away from my divorce being granted. The only benefit I have found so far is that I am not giving the time of day to the tool of a man I married, he's a cheater and some things will never change. I'm not needy but I want to fall in love again with someone who is the opposit of what the Stbx is. I was with the H for half my life so I don't even know how to start dating again???? I think it's weird and sad .


----------



## gouge_away

Threeblessings said:


> I am 6 weeks away from my divorce being granted. The only benefit I have found so far is that I am not giving the time of day to the tool of a man I married, he's a cheater and some things will never change. I'm not needy but I want to fall in love again with someone who is the opposit of what the Stbx is. I was with the H for half my life so I don't even know how to start dating again???? I think it's weird and sad .


When I started dating, the first woman I went with was the opposite of my ex. I 'loved' her for being opposite, that was all it took. It was by all means a purposes a rebound relationship. It hurt more when that relationship ended than my marriage; yet I am forever grateful having gone through it.


----------



## Spotthedeaddog

There is a reason that some women are trying to push that they deserve more in alimony/child support because even after punishing the husband with weekly/monthly payments many years later the ex-husbands are often in a much stronger financial position than their ex-wives. The crazy bit is that it never occurs to their wrathfulness's that their spending/lifestyle might be the cause.... (ie it's clearly the mens' fault...)


----------



## SamuraiJack

benefits? Oooooo!!!Pick me! Pick me!
Aside from not being verbally and physically abused...there is private time, friends nights, Secret Agent weekends, hot sex with new ladies, the possibility of falling in love again, FREEDOM!!!

These things are all just great, but possibly the best thing is being able to take brutal stock of yourself and make some modifications. Your first time around you were largely shaped by your parents. This time you can use the pain to shape yourself the way you want.

Make the changes you want...become a better person and love yourself first and foremost.

PS. It took me a few years but I made my goal of a certain amount of money in the bank...I NEVER could have done this with her around.


----------



## ChargingCharlie

SamuraiJack said:


> benefits? Oooooo!!!Pick me! Pick me!
> Aside from not being verbally and physically abused...there is private time, friends nights, Secret Agent weekends, hot sex with new ladies, the possibility of falling in love again, FREEDOM!!!
> 
> These things are all just great, but possibly the best thing is being able to take brutal stock of yourself and make some modifications. Your first time around you were largely shaped by your parents. This time you can use the pain to shape yourself the way you want.
> 
> Make the changes you want...become a better person and love yourself first and foremost.
> 
> PS. It took me a few years but I made my goal of a certain amount of money in the bank...I NEVER could have done this with her around.


This sounds great, but in my case I think I would have been better off staying single. I didn't have sex then, which is the same as now. At least then I was able to save and invest money and do what I wanted. Now I have a wife who has no concept of money, and no life because I'm either working or babysitting kids (like last night and tonight so she could go out) - plus I don't like being around her which is why the kids and I go out on weekends.


----------



## Wolf1974

knobcreek said:


> How do you get past the fear of being alone? That's my greatest worry about divorce, I wouldn't know how to adjust to being alone after living with someone for the better part of 15 years, then add in children running around, dogs, etc... To transition to just myself is a terrifying thought, primarily because I don't think I would love the company that much :laugh:


I think this is a very natural worry of the unknown. Some of us were thrust into divorce with no choice and we all survived. Some of us better than what we left. Get your life in order and work on yourself and you won't be alone. As a guy with online dating it's easy to find dates.


----------



## where_are_we

ChargingCharlie said:


> This sounds great, but in my case I think I would have been better off staying single. I didn't have sex then, which is the same as now. At least then I was able to save and invest money and do what I wanted. Now I have a wife who has no concept of money, and no life because I'm either working or babysitting kids (like last night and tonight so she could go out) - plus I don't like being around her which is why the kids and I go out on weekends.


You have to work AND babysit your own children huh? Could this be a contributing factor to the problems in your marriage. 


Just messing with you....:smile2:


----------



## ChargingCharlie

I didn't come here to be made sport of! LOL. 

Not at the same time, of course, but she went out to breakfast with friends so I still have the kids. We'll go out today and get out of the house, mainly to give Daddy a break from Mommy.


----------



## Bananapeel

Threeblessings said:


> I was with the H for half my life so I don't even know how to start dating again???? I think it's weird and sad .


It's neither weird nor sad...it's totally normal. It's a big change in your life and it will take time to get to the point you are ready to look for someone else. A lot of people rush relationships after a divorce but it is probably healthier to just take a break and wait until you are ready.


----------



## WasDecimated

There are so many benefits...

This is the one that was the most unexpected for me. My XWW spent an unbelievable amount of my hard earned money on clothes, shoes, purses, and general crap while we were married. Even though I pay her $2700.00 per month for alimony and a smaller amount for 1/2 child support, I still have more disposable income than I ever had before. I honestly thought I would be much worse off financially.

I am counting the days, (2 years) when I will be done paying her. It will be as if I got a huge raise, and she will be financially screwed .


----------



## Dycedarg

I get to live the way I want. 

I can clean my house and know that when I get home it will still be clean. 

No surprise CC bills. 

Date women 10+ years younger than me. 

Save tons of money. 

Spend quality time with my friends and family.

I know this reality will make a lot of you hate me. Deal with it.


----------



## SARAHMCD

Why would anyone hate you for it? 
That describes my life. Except change the dating women to men.
Enjoy!


----------



## joannacroc

Being able to go to the theater, concerts and galleries again, not just the movies (my Ex was not into performing arts or fine arts). That magical time when you start seeing someone special and it's just blissfully fun without any of the mess that comes with a marriage. Having sex with someone who isn't bored of you and vice versa. Having electrical bills that are much lower than before like you OP 

Much healthier financially than before.


----------



## Blacksmith01

Utility bill cut in half

House payment dropped by almost $400 

Insurance is half of what it was

Toilet paper usage is down. What lasted a week now lasts almost a month.

Free to do what I please.


----------



## SecondTime'Round

Dycedarg said:


> I get to live the way I want.
> 
> I can clean my house and know that when I get home it will still be clean.
> 
> No surprise CC bills.
> 
> Date women 10+ years younger than me.
> 
> Save tons of money.
> 
> Spend quality time with my friends and family.
> 
> I know this reality will make a lot of you hate me. Deal with it.


No hate, but why is dating women 10 years younger than you better than dating women your own age?


----------



## GuyInColorado

Where do you guys meet these hot girls??? Lol. I'm 34 and haven't dated for 13 years. Funny, I still feel like I'm in my 20s. The thought of dating again is both scary and exciting.


----------



## Dycedarg

SecondTime'Round said:


> No hate, but why is dating women 10 years younger than you better than dating women your own age?


It isn't. Emphatically, it isn't. 

Thank you for being kind and straightforward with me. I hope I didn't come across as insulting.


----------



## FeministInPink

Dycedarg said:


> It isn't. Emphatically, it isn't.
> 
> Thank you for being kind and straightforward with me. I hope I didn't come across as insulting.


Glad you clarified. As of late, there have been some thirty-something male TAMers hating on thirty-something women in general, basically saying that we have no social or sexual currency (in other words, we are worthless) once we reach the age of 35, specifically because our youth and beauty has started to fade.

Thanks for confirming you're not one of the haters.


----------



## Dycedarg

FeministInPink said:


> Glad you clarified. As of late, there have been some thirty-something male TAMers hating on thirty-something women in general, basically saying that we have no social or sexual currency (in other words, we are worthless) once we reach the age of 35, specifically because our youth and beauty has started to fade.
> 
> Thanks for confirming you're not one of the haters.


Certainly. I can't speak for everyone but I'd venture a guess that very few men hate women, of any age. If a woman is attractive and has the right disposition it doesn't matter how old she is. I could be wrong; I don't know who specifically you're referring to.

But if someone says they _hate_ women in their thirties, either they're being outlandishly unreasonable or it is linked to a bad experience with a person or multiple people in that demographic. Some of my friends are married, and to be honest most of them would much rather be single than joined to the insinuative, barking spouses to whom they're linked. 

It is in that context that younger, less assuming women truly become attractive. Unless someone has a weird age fetish I doubt the number plays into the situation. If a woman has a standoffish attitude of "I don't need a man, I'm happy without men, men are pigs, men should respect me because I exist, etc..." It doesn't really matter how old they are, no man with a fully functional brain and body will want anything to do with that. I really don't think that male biology simply says "Oh, she's too old." 

It is very hard to do, but we should probably try not to take it personally when someone says "All ____ are _____." Although it's poorly worded and admittedly comes across as downright insulting, that person is more often than not simply saying "I've had a number of bad experiences with this kind of person." They should phrase things in a less accusatory and more constructive manner, but I'm guessing that most people aren't truly, at their core, that presumptuous.

Attractive is attractive, and age doesn't always determine that. I actually dated a woman my age a few weeks after my divorce and she had a child; we got along wonderfully. We synced in a delightful way, and she was very desirable. When she saw how much her kid loved me she eyed me like I was a New York Strip. And she was very carnivorous. By virtue of her age, she had a lot in common with me, and was also very adept in pleasing me. She was sweet and made me feel like I was important. The only reason we didn't continue was because of distance. 

I'm sorry that you've had insults slung your way, especially when they are tethered to something so arbitrary and innocuous as your age. Try not to take it too hard. The ones with the sharpest teeth are usually the ones with the deepest wounds.


----------



## FeministInPink

@Dycedarg--I said "hating on." It's a slangy term: to hate on. (Yes, I am a grown adult woman who listens to Taylor Swift and uses young-people slang, ha ha.)

I don't think the poster actually HATES women, but he was saying a lot of chauvinistic, misogynistic things, such as equating a woman's absolute worth to only youth and beauty. (Oh, and he also said that because he's so freaking awesome--I'm paraphrasing here--that he could limit himself to 20-somethings, and didn't have to lower his standards to date someone so undesireable as a woman his own age.) A lot of women on the thread found his remarks offensive--we said our piece, and while I can't speak for the other women TAMers, I put him on my ignore list. I didn't take it personally, and I'm certainly not going to waste my time reading his drivel.

As a woman in my mid-thirties (36, so I fall into that "untouchable" caste he refers to), I've had no problem attracting guys in their young 30s, and even late 20s. So I'm not concerned 

(ETA: I don't think he HATES women. I also don't think he respects them. And it was one particular poster I'm thinking of, but I know there are a few more floating around.)


----------



## SecondTime'Round

Dycedarg said:


> It isn't. Emphatically, it isn't.
> 
> Thank you for being kind and straightforward with me. I hope I didn't come across as insulting.


No, you didn't come across as insulting, but you did list it among your "pros" list, which sortof implies it is "better."


----------



## Cara

Dycedarg said:


> It isn't. Emphatically, it isn't.
> 
> Thank you for being kind and straightforward with me. I hope I didn't come across as insulting.


I see nothing wrong with a man who has freed himself from his age-appropriate ex-wife dating women much younger than himself. Same goes for women, if they can manage it. 

Young women often to have much less "baggage" (such as kids, ex-husbands, time-consuming careers, etc.) and place fewer demands on their men. Why not sample all the free milk flowing these days?Sounds like a win for you if you can pull them!


----------



## Wolf1974

Cara said:


> I see nothing wrong with a man who has freed himself from his age-appropriate ex-wife dating women much younger than himself. Same goes for women, if they can manage it.
> 
> Young women often to have much less "baggage" (such as kids, ex-husbands, time-consuming careers, etc.) and place fewer demands on their men. Why not sample all the free milk flowing these days?Sounds like a win for you if you can pull them!


This is more the truth as I have been exposed to. I date younger not for increased youth and beauty but because many women I met my age and older were bitter and angry. Attitude brought to the table trumps looks any day for me. Not always universally true of course my GF is 4 years younger than me but I really just consider us the same age. She isn't angry or bitter .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dycedarg

SecondTime'Round said:


> No, you didn't come across as insulting, but you did list it among your "pros" list, which sortof implies it is "better."


Not better, just good.

If I can attract younger women in addition, isn't that a pro?


----------



## FeministInPink

Wolf1974 said:


> This is more the truth as I have been exposed to. I date younger not for increased youth and beauty but because many women I met my age and older were bitter and angry. Attitude brought to the table trumps looks any day for me. Not always universally true of course my GF is 4 years younger than me but I really just consider us the same age. She isn't angry or bitter .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Honestly, I think that one of the things that makes women bitter and angry is that men their age tend to go for the PYTs and ignore women their own age. So those women get stuck dating older men that they don't want to date.

Or maybe you're right, maybe it is the bitterness and anger (and not the age) that keeps the men their age away? I don't know, I only have my own experience to judge. 

It would irritate me a little, if I found that if men my age were ASSUMING I'm bitter and angry based solely on the fact that I'm the same age. Because I'm a very upbeat, positive person. I keep to myself, so it may take a little while to learn this about me. I don't think one's first impression of me would be bitter and angry. But no one would ever know, if they rule me out because of my age. Then again, I probably wouldn't want to date someone who made assumptions like that.

My XH was 6 yrs my senior, and it was like living with a curmudgeonly old man. I know that's more about his personality than his age, but I can't help making the age association. So I decided that I did not want to date anyone more than a few years older than myself. 

And I've had mostly good experiences with men a few years younger than myself. I wonder if the opposite could be true, that some women find men their own age (and older) have baggage that THEY don't want to deal with? I see just as many men my age and older that have a real serious chip on their shoulder and a bad attitude about women. I would avoid them like the plague.

I think you're right about the attitude thing. That part is much more important than age.

But my age requirement has to do with other stuff... if someone is going to end up as serious long-term, I want him to be around my age, so we retire around the same time. I know people will respond, "but not everyone you date will be long-term like that!" Of course not. But you never know whom among the people you date will ultimately become your long-term partner, and I would like to increase the likelihood that whomever will ultimately become my long-term partner will retire around the same time that I will.


----------



## Wolf1974

FeministInPink said:


> Honestly, I think that one of the things that makes women bitter and angry is that men their age tend to go for the PYTs and ignore women their own age. So those women get stuck dating older men that they don't want to date.
> 
> Or maybe you're right, maybe it is the bitterness and anger (and not the age) that keeps the men their age away? I don't know, I only have my own experience to judge.
> 
> It would irritate me a little, if I found that if men my age were ASSUMING I'm bitter and angry based solely on the fact that I'm the same age. Because I'm a very upbeat, positive person. I keep to myself, so it may take a little while to learn this about me. I don't think one's first impression of me would be bitter and angry. But no one would ever know, if they rule me out because of my age. Then again, I probably wouldn't want to date someone who made assumptions like that.
> 
> My XH was 6 yrs my senior, and it was like living with a curmudgeonly old man. I know that's more about his personality than his age, but I can't help making the age association. So I decided that I did not want to date anyone more than a few years older than myself.
> 
> And I've had mostly good experiences with men a few years younger than myself. I wonder if the opposite could be true, that some women find men their own age (and older) have baggage that THEY don't want to deal with? I see just as many men my age and older that have a real serious chip on their shoulder and a bad attitude about women. I would avoid them like the plague.
> 
> I think you're right about the attitude thing. That part is much more important than age.
> 
> But my age requirement has to do with other stuff... if someone is going to end up as serious long-term, I want him to be around my age, so we retire around the same time. I know people will respond, "but not everyone you date will be long-term like that!" Of course not. But you never know whom among the people you date will ultimately become your long-term partner, and I would like to increase the likelihood that whomever will ultimately become my long-term partner will retire around the same time that I will.


All true and I'm sure women go through the same thing. I mean guys get screwed in divorce and relationships as well so the possibility to be angry and bitter is very likely I would say.

I guess for me personally I have just never understood blaming an entire gener because my X wife was a dud. That's about her and not all women. So to be around women who think because thier X was a dud so all guys are I can't stand to be around. Like you I'm way to positive and upbeat to listen to any of that nonsense.


----------



## Marduk

FeministInPink said:


> @Dycedarg--I said "hating on." It's a slangy term: to hate on. (Yes, I am a grown adult woman who listens to Taylor Swift and uses young-people slang, ha ha.)
> 
> I don't think the poster actually HATES women, but he was saying a lot of chauvinistic, misogynistic things, such as equating a woman's absolute worth to only youth and beauty. (Oh, and he also said that because he's so freaking awesome--I'm paraphrasing here--that he could limit himself to 20-somethings, and didn't have to lower his standards to date someone so undesireable as a woman his own age.) A lot of women on the thread found his remarks offensive--we said our piece, and while I can't speak for the other women TAMers, I put him on my ignore list. I didn't take it personally, and I'm certainly not going to waste my time reading his drivel.
> 
> As a woman in my mid-thirties (36, so I fall into that "untouchable" caste he refers to), I've had no problem attracting guys in their young 30s, and even late 20s. So I'm not concerned
> 
> (ETA: I don't think he HATES women. I also don't think he respects them. And it was one particular poster I'm thinking of, but I know there are a few more floating around.)


I'm going to weigh in here and be brutally honest about my journey.

When I divorced in my late 20's, I went through this. I dated a few (for me) _really_ young women. As in, 20.

Because I was chasing that young/hot woman stereotype. 

And what I discovered... Man, I would really rather be with a woman my age. It just became tiresome, you know?

For me, it took going through that process to laugh at other guys who chase young women just because they're young.

I expect it's no different for women that chase younger guys, which I've seen quite a bit of lately.


----------



## FeministInPink

Dycedarg said:


> SecondTime'Round said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, you didn't come across as insulting, but you did list it among your "pros" list, which sortof implies it is "better."
> 
> 
> 
> Not better, just good.
> 
> *If I can attract younger women in addition*, isn't that a pro?
Click to expand...

Well, no, not really... what about divorce makes you more attractive to younger women? That in itself is not necessarily a pro of divorce. Because not all men are capable of attracting younger women.

Being able to attract younger women may be a "pro" of BEING YOU, because maybe YOU (as an individual) are capable of attracting younger women because of your physical appearance or high income or whatever, but that's not a "pro" of divorce--if younger women find you attractive now, they would have found you attractive while you were married as well. Divorce doesn't factor into it. 

What is a "pro" of divorce is _the ability to date again_. If you fundamentally prefer dating younger women over dating women your own age (or dating women who are older), then you might add "younger" as a qualifier to that statement. So you might say, "Dating younger women is a pro of dating," but ONLY if you prefer dating younger women over women your own age, because it specifically EXCLUDES dating women your own age. The statement implies that you do NOT want to date women your own age.

And you have said that you don't have a preference to date younger women over women your own age.

Therefore, _dating *younger * women_ is not a "pro." BUT _dating any woman I choose_ IS a "pro" for someone who is dating women from a wide range of ages.

Some might say that it's just semantics, but the meanings and intentions of the two phrases are VASTLY different.


----------



## FeministInPink

Wolf1974 said:


> All true and I'm sure women go through the same thing. I mean guys get screwed in divorce and relationships as well so the possibility to be angry and bitter is very likely I would say.
> 
> I guess for me personally I have just never understood blaming an entire gener because my X wife was a dud. That's about her and not all women. So to be around women who think because thier X was a dud so all guys are I can't stand to be around. Like you I'm way to positive and upbeat to listen to any of that nonsense.


*YES!!!!!!*


----------



## FeministInPink

marduk said:


> I'm going to weigh in here and be brutally honest about my journey.
> 
> When I divorced in my late 20's, I went through this. I dated a few (for me) _really_ young women. As in, 20.
> 
> Because I was chasing that young/hot woman stereotype.
> 
> And what I discovered... Man, I would really rather be with a woman my age. It just became tiresome, you know?
> 
> For me, it took going through that process to laugh at other guys who chase young women just because they're young.
> 
> I expect it's no different for women that chase younger guys, which I've seen quite a bit of lately.


Snaps for this post.

I've talked to a few younger guys--in their mid- to late-20s who expressed a clear interest in me. And while they were some delicious eye candy, ultimately I thought, what could we possible have in common? You are not going to _*get*_ me the way I need in a potential partner--you just don't have the life experience yet. And I'm at a totally different place in my life. (I have friends who are in their mid-20s, and oh, I love them to death, and they are fun to hang out with occasionally, but it's the same thing; they don't have the life experience to really *get *me.) The early-30s guys that I've dated had all been through a divorce, so there was common ground there, and the age difference was small enough to traverse.


----------



## Marduk

I'm not going to lie though, those women were hot and the sex was good. And easy to get.

So I can see the appeal. For a certain mentality.

Probably a good litmus test for women to notice who the men they are interested in are trying to attract.

It was actually funny now that I think about. The sex was easy to get the first few times, and got increasingly more annoying to get the more we had it. 

Or maybe I just noticed more how annoying it was to date a person almost 10 years younger than me.


----------



## Ynot

I dunno about this whole chasing youth thing. Why would someone want an inexperienced lover? I always laugh when I think about those suicide bombers that are promised 72 virgins for their sacrifice. Make it 72 willing, experienced, knowledgable and skilled middle aged women and you've got a deal!


----------



## farsidejunky

marduk said:


> I'm not going to lie though, those women were hot and the sex was good. And easy to get.
> 
> So I can see the appeal. For a certain mentality.
> 
> Probably a good litmus test for women to notice who the men they are interested in are trying to attract.
> 
> It was actually funny now that I think about. The sex was easy to get the first few times, and got increasingly more annoying to get the more we had it.
> 
> Or maybe I just noticed more how annoying it was to date a person almost 10 years younger than me.


Yup.

When I got divorced at 25ish, I actually dated (slept with) many younger girls. One of them was 18... Sex was fun because of the enticement of the younger girl...but that was it. 

However...

The young ones had nothing on the few 30-35 year old ladies I dated. They could actually talk about things that mattered. They knew what they wanted sexually. Far fewer games. I never heard the question "What are you thinking?"... lol

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Marduk

farsidejunky said:


> Yup.
> 
> When I got divorced at 25ish, I actually dated (slept with) many younger girls. One of them was 18... Sex was fun because of the enticement of the younger girl...but that was it.
> 
> However...
> 
> The young ones had nothing on the few 30-35 year old ladies I dated. They could actually talk about things that mattered. They knew what they wanted sexually. Far fewer games. I never heard the question "What are you thinking?"... lol
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


"Like, um, where is this going, you know? I mean, like, my girlfriends all say to not rush things. But I read in Cosmo that you shouldn't rush sex but we've just had it again, maybe we should take this quiz? Oh, by the way, my girlfriends are all going to Cabo next month and I think I'm going to go. Don't be all, like, creepshow about it. Oh, ya, Becky said I should ask you how many other girls you're, like, ****ing and all?"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FeministInPink

marduk said:


> "Like, um, where is this going, you know? I mean, like, my girlfriends all say to not rush things. But I read in Cosmo that you shouldn't rush sex but we've just had it again, maybe we should take this quiz? Oh, by the way, my girlfriends are all going to Cabo next month and I think I'm going to go. Don't be all, like, creepshow about it. Oh, ya, Becky said I should ask you how many other girls you're, like, ****ing and all?"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:rofl:

So, apparently I was never a PYT. What kind of girls were you dating?!?

ETA: I must have been 16 going on 32, because I was NEVER like that.


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## Dycedarg

Cara said:


> I see nothing wrong with a man who has freed himself from his age-appropriate ex-wife dating women much younger than himself. Same goes for women, if they can manage it.
> 
> Young women often to have much less "baggage" (such as kids, ex-husbands, time-consuming careers, etc.) and place fewer demands on their men. Why not sample all the free milk flowing these days?Sounds like a win for you if you can pull them!


Thanks. Lot of clenched teeth and forced smiles around here.


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## farsidejunky

marduk said:


> "Like, um, where is this going, you know? I mean, like, my girlfriends all say to not rush things. But I read in Cosmo that you shouldn't rush sex but we've just had it again, maybe we should take this quiz? Oh, by the way, my girlfriends are all going to Cabo next month and I think I'm going to go. Don't be all, like, creepshow about it. Oh, ya, Becky said I should ask you how many other girls you're, like, ****ing and all?"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


"Shhhhh. Hush and come to bed. We'll talk about it later."

Sometimes being a procrastinator has its advantages...

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Married but Happy

There's a huge difference between a woman who is 10 years younger when you are 30, versus one that much younger when you are 50 or more.

As for me, my wife is 8 years younger. My FWB is 27 years younger. I never went after younger women when dating - I dated women where there was mutual interest, attraction, and compatibility, and those who were considerably younger always approached me first.


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## Marduk

FeministInPink said:


> :rofl:
> 
> So, apparently I was never a PYT. What kind of girls were you dating?!?
> 
> ETA: I must have been 16 going on 32, because I was NEVER like that.


You know. Miniskirts and tank tops. Crantinis. Bubble gum and lip gloss. Belly button piercings. Ricky martin music. 

It was all a blur now. But I remember they smelled nice. Like fruit and vanilla.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marduk

farsidejunky said:


> "Shhhhh. Hush and come to bed. We'll talk about it later."
> 
> Sometimes being a procrastinator has its advantages...
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


My response was more like "we're done having sex. Why are you still here?"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FeministInPink

marduk said:


> You know. Miniskirts and tank tops. Crantinis. Bubble gum and lip gloss. Belly button piercings. Ricky martin music.
> 
> It was all a blur now. But I remember they smelled nice. Like fruit and vanilla.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh, yeah, I was definitely never a PYT. At that age, I was a jeans and t-shirt kind of girl. Still am.


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## FeministInPink

marduk said:


> My response was more like "we're done having sex. Why are you still here?"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


*Cringe*

I don't think I would have dated you, either!


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## Marduk

FeministInPink said:


> *Cringe*
> 
> I don't think I would have dated you, either!


I'm glad you didn't, either!


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## FeministInPink

marduk said:


> I'm glad you didn't, either!


I think I'm supposed to take that as a compliment? Or maybe not exactly a compliment, but that you think enough of me that you're glad I didn't date you during that time? I hope so!


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## Marduk

FeministInPink said:


> I think I'm supposed to take that as a compliment? Or maybe not exactly a compliment, but that you think enough of me that you're glad I didn't date you during that time? I hope so!


It is. There were a number of women I wasn't very kind to. Never abusive or deceitful, but not compassionate, either.

I would have hated for you to be one of them. That's all.


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## farsidejunky

marduk said:


> It is. There were a number of women I wasn't very kind to. Never abusive or deceitful, but not compassionate, either.
> 
> I would have hated for you to be one of them. That's all.


The same. Angry FSJ was not a good person to date.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## FeministInPink

marduk said:


> It is. There were a number of women I wasn't very kind to. Never abusive or deceitful, but not compassionate, either.
> 
> I would have hated for you to be one of them. That's all.


Well, I think you know how hard I would have taken that if I did. Although, I would have probably seen through it to the hurt, and I would have put up with it because of that. You wouldn't have been able to appreciate what I would have offered.

Luckily, I've gotten pretty good at running away from angry men.


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## Marduk

FeministInPink said:


> Well, I think you know how hard I would have taken that if I did. Although, I would have probably seen through it to the hurt, and I would have put up with it because of that. You wouldn't have been able to appreciate what I would have offered.
> 
> Luckily, I've gotten pretty good at running away from angry men.


I wasn't angry. I was self-centered, smart, good-looking, and had some $ in my pocket to spend.

Honestly, all I did was take what was on offer, and it was all kinda a joke to me. Not their feelings, but the whole mating dance. How easy it was.

It shocked me at a comparitively early age what a surprising number of girls would do for you if you just asked them to.

It shocked me even more after my divorce that it was still true even in their 20's. Maybe more so.


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## farsidejunky

marduk said:


> I wasn't angry. I was self-centered, smart, good-looking, and had some $ in my pocket to spend.
> 
> Honestly, all I did was take what was on offer, and it was all kinda a joke to me. Not their feelings, but the whole mating dance. How easy it was.
> 
> It shocked me at a comparitively early age what a surprising number of girls would do for you if you just asked them to.
> 
> It shocked me even more after my divorce that it was still true even in their 20's. Maybe more so.


I was all of this as well.

Plus angry.

And minus the good looking part...



Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## FeministInPink

marduk said:


> I wasn't angry. I was self-centered, smart, good-looking, and had some $ in my pocket to spend.
> 
> Honestly, all I did was take what was on offer, and it was all kinda a joke to me. Not their feelings, but the whole mating dance. How easy it was.
> 
> *It shocked me at a comparitively early age what a surprising number of girls would do for you if you just asked them to.*
> 
> It shocked me even more after my divorce that it was still true even in their 20's. Maybe more so.


It's a sad statement about what our society/culture teaches women about their worth and their sexuality. The sexual revolution was great in that it allowed women to embrace their sexuality; but there wasn't a concurrent revolution that taught women to embrace their sense of self-worth.


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## Marduk

Because I was raised by a staunch feminist, I never believed I harmed a woman by having sex with her, or degraded or denigrated her worth as a human being.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FeministInPink

marduk said:


> Because I was raised by a staunch feminist, I never believed I harmed a woman by having sex with her, or degraded or denigrated her worth as a human being.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And I don't believe that you harmed any woman by doing such, either. I certainly don't get that from your posts.

But the fact that they were all so willing to give it up so quickly, and to do just about anything simply because you asked... that says to me that they didn't think that they had much to offer any man besides their body. And if the conversation example you gave is representative, it sounds like many of these girls didn't do much work in developing their brains or personalities, either. 

And their inherent worth isn't determined by whether or not you have sex with them... but there ARE men out there who DO believe that determines their worth. Men like that project that worth, and women like this take that to heart, and begin to believe it.


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## Cara

FeministInPink said:


> It's a sad statement about what our society/culture teaches women about their worth and their sexuality. The sexual revolution was great in that it allowed women to embrace their sexuality; but there wasn't a concurrent revolution that taught women to embrace their sense of self-worth.


I disagree with the statement that the sexual rev allowed women to embrace their sexuality. All it seems to have taught both women and men, IMO, is to give it away like those dusty mints you grab on you way out of the chain steakhouse. 

I cannot believe that the way sexuality and reproduction are treated in today's world are a good or healthy development for the human race.


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## FeministInPink

Cara said:


> I disagree with the statement that the sexual rev allowed women to embrace their sexuality. All it seems to have taught both women and men, IMO, is to give it away like those dusty mints you grab on you way out of the chain steakhouse.
> 
> I cannot believe that the way sexuality and reproduction are treated in today's world are a good or healthy development for the human race.


We'll have to agree to disagree.

People were already giving it away like dusty mints, long before the revolution.

I THANK GOD EVERYDAY (and I'm an atheist!) that as a society we are no longer shackled to the literal Puritanical beliefs of a small group of Christian extremists who were so uptight and radically conservative that England told them to get the fvck out.

And that's when the Puritans came to America and decided to fvck it all up for the rest of us.

Some people would like to see us return to Puritanical values. Luckily, that is not how freedom works.


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## Cara

FeministInPink said:


> We'll have to agree to disagree.
> 
> People were already giving it away like dusty mints, long before the revolution.
> 
> I THANK GOD EVERYDAY (and I'm an atheist!) that as a society we are no longer shackled to the literal Puritanical beliefs of a small group of Christian extremists who were so uptight and radically conservative that England told them to get the fvck out.
> 
> And that's when the Puritans came to America and decided to fvck it all up for the rest of us.
> 
> Some people would like to see us return to Puritanical values. Luckily, that is not how freedom works.


Oh yes, we will always disagree! :wink2: I always get a kick out of how two people can have such dissimilar views of the same reality, especially historical fact. It is often my "lol" moment of the day.

It is true that the more "freedom" people FEEL they have (which, as you say above, they have always been giving away) the more evil/chaos/discord that is created in the world. It is disappointing for people who care about the emotional and physical health of others to see people treat themselves and their families with such a lack of honor. 

But hey, I'm no fool, I understand most folks would rather feel good than be/do good.


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