# Need advice about husband lying



## smartie (Aug 1, 2012)

I could really use some advice. A few weeks ago I was away with my kids and my husband stayed at home. He told me that one night a co-worker called him to ask him to come pick him up because he had been drinking. It would have been an hour drive back and forth to get this co-worker. The story sounded odd, so after looking into the phone records I realized that there was no such phone call. However, he did go to this city because there was a credit card charge for an hour parking. No other large amounts of money taken out or spent. When I asked why he had to park there, he said because the guy didnt want to leave. I asked a few other questions and it just seemed like he was lying..."the guy is on the verge of a divorce, he couldnt call his wife. The place they were at was near a college...was kind of fun."

Here is the problem....I don't know how to confront the lie. If I do, then any evidence I could find will disappear because he will get rid of it. I doubt he will tell me the truth. I have tried to get more evidence, but am at a dead end. His computer is password protected.

Since this time, he doesnt behave differently, doesnt disappear for long amounts of time...although I believe that anything that is going on is on the computer.

This problem has consumed my every thought for the past few weeks. I am at a total loss of what to do...please any advice would be welcome.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You need to start snooping to catch who he's cheating with.


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## smartie (Aug 1, 2012)

That is the problem...I have been snooping. There is nothing. It is driving me crazy to know there is something, but I cant get my hands on the truth. Problem is that I cant spend day after day searching for something obsessivly, when I need to continue on with my life.

There are no odd phone calls, so maybe he has a pay by minute cell phone? The only way I think I could come close to finding something is on his computer...which has a password.

What to do????

Am I right to think that I cant confront at this point? I think it will just make the situation worse.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Hire a PI to follow him, or ask a friend to follow him with a camera.

Have you actually looked at his phone?

Can you ask to borrow his computer for something and install a keylogger while you're on? It will email you his keystrokes.


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## smartie (Aug 1, 2012)

I'm not sure following him is the answer since I have a gut feeling that either this is a casual thing or something that hasnt taken off yet. In other words...infrequent. Yes, I guess I could go away again for a weekend and do it that way....but I really need answers now. This snooping has brought my life to a standstill, as I feel that it is all I do. As for keylogging, how can one install a keylogger without getting onto ones computer? Also legality issues?

I have looked at the phone and at the records online. Nothing. Also no emails to his accounts. So whatever this is, it is very well hidden. That is why I think it is an infrequent casual encounter thing.

Maybe I am naive, but is there an underground of people who meet casually? No money involved, just casual encounters? Yes, I see it on craigslist and all, but do men really do this? Or is it a massage parlor? How much would one spend at a massage parlor?

I am totally depressed about this as I am the honest one here, yet everything is against me. All I want is the truth, yet how do I get it?


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

To catch my H in his lies I confronted him as if I knew everything. I didn't confront him in anger but in an apologetic, sympathetic tone. I sat him down and just said, "It's OK hunny. I know all about it. I've seen the messages." I actually had no evidence at the time; i just knew he was hiding something. In your situation I'd probably say something like, "I've seen the messages and I followed you one night. I saw everything. I know all about it. I've known for awhile." I'd probably pretend I wanted to join him or something. then just let him talk. You have to pretend you want in and be hurt that he didn't let you in on the action. That'd get him talking. My H still tried to deny it at first but after being sympathetic for awhile he talked. And when he spills the beans I'd kick his a**.


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## travellover (Aug 6, 2012)

Sounds like some of the vague answers my husband has been giving me. Go with what your instincts are telling you. I just found this site today and already, people have responded with insightful and kind thoughts.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

What kind of phone does he have? Have you checked his text messages, sites he's been on (either on computer or phone). I would suggest not asking him anything about this until you have investigated a little more. Because you're right..if he is doing something wrong, then he will delete everything he can think of. 

Dig deep into whatever he uses that you have access to. Check to see if he's been taking pictures of himself that you might have not seen before. Has he been deleting history every time he uses the computer? Stuff like that is a red flag. Keep checking phone bills. Just stay cool and keep an eye out.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Why is his computer password protected in the first place? 

With some of the keystroke loggers, you can trick a person into installing it on their computer by sending them an e-mail link, but I don't know many details about it because I've only installed one directly. As far as the legality - you have to digitally certify that you are installing it with the owner's consent, which is where it can get tricky. If you don't have the owner's consent, you're violating federal wiretapping laws in the U.S. 

Because you seem to have a solid and rational perspective, smartie, let me ask you if you really need that evidence. If you plan to quash it and keep the relationship, it might be better to take a different approach than seeking corroboration. 

I suspect you're right that it's not an ongoing affair. In fact, when he says it's "near the college" it makes me think of the way female students sometimes prostitute themselves to get money. They aren't hardcore hookers, but they're turning tricks just the same.


You have enough information right now to confront him about his deception. You could use what you do have to say, "You've betrayed my trust, and because of that, I want you to remove your computer password and get rid of anything incriminating you may have on there. I expect that you will not betray my trust again, and if you do, I will not be so accepting as I am right now. I will be watching for betrayal until I can feel secure about the level of trust we have between us." 

Consider the possible outcomes carefully before taking this approach. Will you be able to accept that you may never know what happened? How can you respond calmly if he tries to turn things around on you and accuse you of being paranoid or unreasonable? If you can have a Plan B in place, stay calm, and keep things in perspective, you may be able to find out what is motivating him to look outside his marriage for his needs to be met.


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## lettre (Aug 5, 2012)

I differ from many people on this forum in that I don't believe in snooping, don't believe in going into another person's personal information, and don't believe it is ethical to follow people around with cameras. I do think, though, that you have every right to say that his stories sound untrue, that you feel as though there is something going on, and that you want to hear what is going on. I would tell him that you feel instinctively that there is a problem and that you want to deal with it, but you need to hear the entire truth. If he shuts down, I think it is safe to let him know that you aren't willing to live like this and to take some steps. 

It sounds like snooping is consuming your life. That's kind of the nature of deceit, I think. What good is it doing for you and your relationship? It doesn't sound like it helps. A more direct approach sounds like it might be helpful.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

lettre said:


> I do think, though, that you have every right to say that his stories sound untrue, that you feel as though there is something going on, and that you want to hear what is going on.


Cheaters will not tell the truth. 
All that does is warn the cheater to be better at hiding, now that the spouse suspects.


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## lettre (Aug 5, 2012)

turnera said:


> Cheaters will not tell the truth.
> All that does is warn the cheater to be better at hiding, now that the spouse suspects.


I disagree, but that's OK. 
I think people need to go with their gut. If somebody seems to be cheating, if their behavior is distant, if something feels off, then I don't see a reason not to say so and deal with the problem in the relationship: there is still a problem, whether you have "details" or not. I'm not sure how "catching" somebody really does anything useful. A problem is a problem, and the problem that exists is big enough to tackle on its own. This is simply my opinion, though, and the poster is free to take it with a grain of salt  I'm big on honesty and not stooping to the level of snooping or getting into somebody else's privacy, so that's always going to be in my advice.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

I agree that snooping can lead you away from your normal everyday life, but it's also hard to live a life if you are believing it all could be a lie. It eats away at you. 

You've already asked your spouse about this so called "night with a guy friend who needed to be picked up", and you still feel he is lying to you. So what do you think would happen if you sit him down again for a talk? You know your H better than any of us. You already have this feeling of deceit from him. 

I've tried everything in the book with mine....I've sat him down and talked rationally about my suspicions or my findings, I've gone the whole nine yards....he's lied hundreds of times to me over and over....have had many different kinds of situations happen.

If you feel that you won't find anything right now, then just leave this whole thing alone. Wait a while and give him the benefit of the doubt. No point in continually searching for things he might have deleted already, or might not even be happening for all you know. 

Wait a while....the truth will reveal itself. I find though if you don't have evidence and you tell your H that you have suspicions about him, it will just make him feel like you don't have trust for him if he isn't doing anything.


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## smartie (Aug 1, 2012)

Thank you for all of your responses...I hadnt mentioned that something similar happened a few years ago. I found a pay per minute cell phone, some internet history...etc. I confronted him. Never got a straight answer. We went to counseling. THought he learned his lesson from whatever it was and I moved on. I didnt get an honest answer then, and history has proven that my method did not work. 

Fast forward to now...I don' t think our relationship has been great lately (not horrible though...just no intimacy because of kids. And yes, I do consider this a major issue).

I guess from your answers regarding snooping vs not snooping..getting a straight answer or never getting an answer...this is what is driving me crazy. I can't repeat the past like I did a few years ago because obviously the problem was not resolved. I can confront without proof, but I know I will not get an answer. I am caught between a rock and a hard place.

I don't think I can move forward in a relationship in which I don't know the truth. So what do I do? Just sit here and wait for more evidence that might never come? We have been married for 14 years...3 kids...how could I end a marriage without proof?

I am so lost.....


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

I say this a lot to people, but he sounds like my H. My H would never give me straight answers that left me feeling relieved or good. He would say things like "baby, don't start fighting" or "don't worry about me, everything is fine" "don't worry, you worry too much" many more where that came from. Or he would deter the conversation away completely from me questioning him and the day would move on... 

and the funny part is, I would fall for it over and over again. I felt like you too....I thought "this is so draining I know something is wrong, but I can't figure out what it is" This doesn't feel right.

Then I started snooping one year I remember..and I did start finding little things that I thought were odd. and over the years things just started adding up.

But since you do not have proof, nor is he giving you a straight answer. The only things you can do, is wait for proof (because if there's something going on, you will get proof eventually), or talk to him about how you are feeling and see where that goes (not sure where that could go, so many ways), or leave it all alone and don't worry about it if you can. 

One thing you should do is figure out where you draw lines. Set some boundaries within yourself. Know what you would do in certain circumstances and make sure if those things come true, that you will stick by your boundaries.


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## smartie (Aug 1, 2012)

Thanks SomethingElse....I guess I just need to sit and wait right now. As difficult as that is! Thank you for the advice. Although I have not found an answer to my problem, it helps so much to have others who understand! Thank you .


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

smartie said:


> Thanks SomethingElse....I guess I just need to sit and wait right now. As difficult as that is! Thank you for the advice. Although I have not found an answer to my problem, it helps so much to have others who understand! Thank you .



No problem Smartie! I hope and pray it all turns out ok for you and your hubby. always here to help


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

If there were no other history, I would have said that his story could have been true. What guy charges the parking if he's trying to hide? And with parking lots these days, you get charged an hour once the gate goes up, so he could have went in, found the co-worker, and left.

But it sounds to me that he took the opportunity to do something while you were gone. You don't necessarily have to find cell phone records or an email account. Those can be hidden easily.

Can you confirm with his co-worker, sort of on the sly, if you meet him?

But I think with the past history, you have a right to openness from him and any reluctance on his part should be met with suspicions.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

lettre said:


> I disagree, but that's OK.
> I think people need to go with their gut. If somebody seems to be cheating, if their behavior is distant, if something feels off, then I don't see a reason not to say so and deal with the problem in the relationship: there is still a problem, whether you have "details" or not. I'm not sure how "catching" somebody really does anything useful. A problem is a problem, and the problem that exists is big enough to tackle on its own. This is simply my opinion, though, and the poster is free to take it with a grain of salt  I'm big on honesty and not stooping to the level of snooping or getting into somebody else's privacy, so that's always going to be in my advice.


I can understand where you are coming from.... however, from the perspective of one who was cheated on, as well as having cheated... I, respectfully, disagree. I had 2 EAs. My husband had one. The first one was discovered by accident, due to my youngest son having given my cell phone to my husband, with the emails open. My husband confronted me. That one ended.

One year later, I was in another, but I learned from that first one to hide, delete everything. And, most importantly, to give just enough affection to make him less suspicious. Toward the end of the EA, I got tot he point where I didn't even care anymore and I we were both detaching. He was in the beginning stages of his EA.

I discovered his by accident. It wasn't a gut feeling, really. I was curious about his conversations with a friend of ours... someone I believed was a MUTUAL friend. So, I looked... and was disgusted, devastated. This was all after I had told him I was sorry and wanted to work on our marriage....and he had agreed.

My husband and I have our passwords known to each other now. We don't go snooping, but we are BOTH free to go into each other's emails and texts anytime we wish. Occasionally, I do look.... mostly because he has a habit of keeping junk mail in his inbox, unopened.... so, I clean it out for him. He knows this, and is fine with it.

The thing is, I never pushed for privacy....*EXCEPT* during my EAs. Now? Not at all. And I prefer it that way. He is my husband. He SHOULD know everything I am doing. The ONLY time I keep things from him is when it deals with surprising him with something.... i.e. a gift. 

Otherwise, I am now one who believes spouses should not be keeping things from each other.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> I can understand where you are coming from.... however, from the perspective of one who was cheated on, as well as having cheated... I, respectfully, disagree. I had 2 EAs. My husband had one. The first one was discovered by accident, due to my youngest son having given my cell phone to my husband, with the emails open. My husband confronted me. That one ended.
> 
> One year later, I was in another, but I learned from that first one to hide, delete everything. And, most importantly, to give just enough affection to make him less suspicious. Toward the end of the EA, I got tot he point where I didn't even care anymore and I we were both detaching. He was in the beginning stages of his EA.
> 
> ...



:iagree:


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## lettre (Aug 5, 2012)

smartie said:


> Thank you for all of your responses...I hadnt mentioned that something similar happened a few years ago. I found a pay per minute cell phone, some internet history...etc. I confronted him. Never got a straight answer. We went to counseling. THought he learned his lesson from whatever it was and I moved on. I didnt get an honest answer then, and history has proven that my method did not work.
> 
> Fast forward to now...I don' t think our relationship has been great lately (not horrible though...just no intimacy because of kids. And yes, I do consider this a major issue).
> 
> ...


This sounds like a very, very difficult situation, and I am sorry you have to deal with it.

Would you consider ending a marriage because of your unhappiness, whether you have "proof" or not? It just sounds to me like you are very unhappy, whether he is cheating or not, and it is consuming you. I understand the long marriage issues (I've been married 13 years), and I certainly understand not wanting to end a marriage with children involved, but children can make it through a divorce. Children watching unhappy parents be unhappy is also an enormous strain. Although it might seem selfish, I think you need to take care of yourself--this relationship just doesn't sound healthy on any level, whether he is cheating or not. I like to think of it like the oxygen masks on the airplane--you have to put one on yourself before you can help anyone else. You have to think about your happiness and whether you are being loved and respected before you can fully be there for other people. 

What do you think he would say if you sat him down and told him that you are considering leaving him simply because you are very unhappy, do not feel heard or loved, etc? Is there some way you can better articulate your unhappiness and the behaviors that lead to it? 


I don't know if this is useful to you, but I had a revolutionary change in my marriage after doing Non-violent communication training. Basically, nonviolent communication is a system where you learn to state your emotions, your needs, and the behaviors that are contributing to your sadness without blaming the other person; it basically flips around the way that we communicate and tries to really separate out behaviors, feelings, and judgments. It sounds very hippy-dippy, but I found that it gave me a way to tell my husband when something is wrong without going into my usual "fighting" mode where I ended up blaming him and him shutting down. I think a lot of the traditional ways we are taught to deal with other people are fraught with blame, which just puts the other person on the defense. Anyways, looking this kind of communication up might be helpful, if you'd like a new way to talk to him: Create Extraordinary Relationships with Nonviolent Communication

I don't know if this is useful to you, but I wish you luck. This sounds very difficult and painful.


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## lettre (Aug 5, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> Otherwise, I am now one who believes spouses should not be keeping things from each other.


Well, we can agree there: I don't keep things from my husband, and he doesn't keep them from me. We check our e-mail and facebook on each other's computers, and we both use the same passwords for our e-mail because it's easier to remember. We use each other's phones. But I have never, ever logged into his e-mail unless he asked me to to check on something, and he has never done so for me. I will never check into his personal things without his permission. To me, this is a hard ethical rule. It's not really about hiding to me but about being both open and respectful of another person's space. We can be open with each other because we know that we have mutual respect and trust. 

I guess I think that affairs are a symptom of a larger problem that ultimately isn't going to be figured out by snooping. It's like taking cold medicine everyday to get rid of an illness that needs to be treated by antibiotics---I feel that underhanded dealings with the other person prevents from getting at that deeper thing. The only thing we really have is our own integrity and honesty--you can't ever know if another person is hiding something. But you can know if you are being ethical by your own standards. So I make sure I am keeping up my end of the bargain with my partner and I extend him my trust. 

But, this is only my point of view: i think that couples who are comfortable with the idea of "checking up" on each other can certainly work. I don't doubt that many different types of boundaries and marriages can work. And I do understand that some people have been really burned in the past and that the trust to give another person space is just not going to be there.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

lettre, I do understand your position and it's a great one to take when you don't think someone is cheating. Once you reach that point, however, there IS no talking them back from the cliff. The PEA chemicals have already taken over their brain and they have become an addict, more intent on keeping the drug (OM/OW) coming than in being honest, ethical, or even nice. The rules change. There IS a script and there IS a fog, and no amount of discussing and respecting space will get rid of the affair. It has to be excised.

THEN you can go back and look at the marriage and figure out where it went wrong.


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## lettre (Aug 5, 2012)

turnera said:


> lettre, I do understand your position and it's a great one to take when you don't think someone is cheating. Once you reach that point, however, there IS no talking them back from the cliff. The PEA chemicals have already taken over their brain and they have become an addict, more intent on keeping the drug (OM/OW) coming than in being honest, ethical, or even nice. The rules change. There IS a script and there IS a fog, and no amount of discussing and respecting space will get rid of the affair. It has to be excised.
> 
> THEN you can go back and look at the marriage and figure out where it went wrong.


Turnera, I can respect your opinion and where it comes from. I don't really agree, but it sounds to me like you have thought out your position and it makes sense for you. I wish the OP the best in figuring out her situation--it's painful and I hope she has somebody close to talk to about this.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Not to belabor the issue, but it's not my position; it's the prevailing position of about 75% of all experts in the subject, and is based on medical and psychological data. That's why you'll find tons of books and articles and studies on the subject discussing the 'script' and the 'fog' and what people do while under the influence.


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## lettre (Aug 5, 2012)

turnera said:


> Not to belabor the issue, but it's not my position; it's the prevailing position of about 75% of all experts in the subject, and is based on medical and psychological data. That's why you'll find tons of books and articles and studies on the subject discussing the 'script' and the 'fog' and what people do while under the influence.


Yeah, I don't buy this model. I am currently getting my MA in counseling psychology, so I am aware of this terminology, but I don't find it to be useful as a way to help individuals reach happiness in a relationship. But yeah, I can understand why you might value this model. I simply do not. It seems like the accepted one around here, so I like to chime in with an alternate opinion, but it's really up to the OP ultimately to figure out what makes sense.


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

You're just going to have to sit back, stop asking questions, don't alert him to your suspicions, and go through the usual measures advocated by the regulars on this forum including a VAR in his car.

Eventually you'll either find nothing and you'll hopefully relax and put this behind you or, more likely, you'll find exactly what you're looking for.

The password protected computer is worrisome. It's a wall of non-trust between you and your supposedly loving spouse.

That's of almost greater concern than the stories that don't quite add up.

Either way, if he's cheating, and you're openminded about it and watching for signs, he'll slip up.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

lettre....just out of curiosity, have you been through infidelity crisis before in your own marriage? If so, I'm assuming your way of ethics has been successful. 

I've never really had good success by using kindness, respect of privacy and trusting my H to do the right things. I also never had success with confronting him with love, dignity and boldness. 

I guess this is why a lot of us who have experienced infidelity by our partners, or have been unfaithful ourselves cannot accept that way of dealing with it any longer. It is a nice way to look at it though I think. I wish that it was that simple. 

What is your take on why a person continually has affairs?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

kindi said:


> You're just going to have to sit back, stop asking questions, don't alert him to your suspicions, and go through the usual measures advocated by the regulars on this forum including a VAR in his car.
> 
> Eventually you'll either find nothing and you'll hopefully relax and put this behind you or, more likely, you'll find exactly what you're looking for.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't say the password protected computer isn't worrisome on its own... it's the part about not letting her ACCESS it. My computer has a password, my husband's does as well. We both know each other's. As a matter of fact, my husband set my password as something he knew I could remember easily.


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## lettre (Aug 5, 2012)

somethingelse said:


> lettre....just out of curiosity, have you been through infidelity crisis before in your own marriage? If so, I'm assuming your way of ethics has been successful.
> 
> I've never really had good success by using kindness, respect of privacy and trusting my H to do the right things. I also never had success with confronting him with love, dignity and boldness.
> 
> ...


I have had a major crisis in my marriage involving some complicated issues of extramarital sex that I won't go totally into (because it is complex & distracts from the original topic). I have the benefit of having a very kind, fair, loving, and committed partner, and we worked through our issues by doing what I have mentioned here & in changing our communication based on NVC (nonviolent communication) principles. We also spent a LOT of time thinking about what we wanted out of marriage, what marriage means to us, and if a more traditional marriage is what we really wanted. We really got down to basics and decided that we were committed to each other, despite our problems, and that we wanted to figure out how to support each other. So, I have had the benefit of a partner working with me, not against me. 

I guess my main problem with methods such as private detectives and internet snooping is that the relationship seems beyond dignity or love at this point. I don't understand wanting to stay in a relationship that seems to be so miserable--no matter if there is cheating or not, there seems to be so much unhappiness that cheating is moot. An unresponsive, unloving partner is not magically created by an affair. There is always something else. Although there are chemical changes with sexual interactions between people, I reject the "addiction model" of affairs not only because it doesn't ring true to my own sexual experience, but also because it feels like a very American way to deal with marriage, a way to explain sexual betrayal that medicalizes behavior and gives specific "steps" to take to "fix" the problem. I simply don't find it effective for happiness, though I have seen it keep unhappy people together until death or at least until the children grow up. If that's the goal, then I guess it is effective. 

If trust, love, and dignity don't work, then why continue with this relationship? This is a question that I think really needs to be asked more often. I find many people clinging to miserable relationships and only leaving after they find some definitive proof of cheating. But why is cheating the last straw? 

This reflects my own therapeutic preference, though, so if it does not make sense to you, I understand. Some people think that keeping a marriage intact is the primary point and will do anything to do so, even if it means an entire life of "checking up" on a partner and keeping them "in check" to make sure they do not cheat again. I do not believe this to be the best way to live. I see people fetishizing their partner's betrayal or their own betrayal as the central fact of their marriage, as something that is always front and center. I believe that people should be happy, and if love, respect, ethical behavior, and trust do not work, the relationship itself might need to be what goes. I know it is not this simple, but I see so many people (women especially) holding on to relationships and consuming their lives with trying to make sure their partners are cheating/not cheating that they essentially start to worship at the altar of their disordered marriage. I have seen my own mother go through this. I've seen some of my best friends do this. It is not a pattern I've ever found to help a person feel like a more whole individual. 

Not sure if that answers your question, and really, I am just here for an alternate point of view--if this is not useful, I understand! Every relationship is different. I am also very empathetic to your situation. I'm going to bow out of the conversation at this point, as I do not want to create a debate on your thread and have added everything I really have to say, but please feel free to private message me if you would like. I'd like to make room for other people.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

You did answer my question, very effectively lettre, so thank you.


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