# I’m emotionally torn. My husband is unhappy with living I my country.



## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

Hi everyone
Firstly, I’m from Scandinavia, so English is not my mother tongue..therefore I apologize for any of my mistakes🙃

Husband and I have been together for 6 years. He's 33 y/I and I’m 36. 
We met in his country as I was on vacation. We visited each other pretty much every month (both students at that time, so it allowed us to live like that/to do so)
Anyway, around 1.5 years after we met, we decided to move to my country. I live in Scandinavia. We did so as I am extremely attached to my family. Approximately 1 year later I got (planned) pregnant. And 2 years after our son was born, we had another (planned) pregnancy. 
We are now parents of two children. 

Anyway, to make a very long story short, my husband still, after all these years, don’t find himself in my country. He doesn’t like it here at all. Hates the language (he severel times tried to learn it-no succes) 
Hates the cold. Hates the living. The vibes. Don’t have friends. Can’t find himself a job. Which is super hard for him as he’s been getting job rejections so many times, and have a major obstacle against himself; that he doesn’t speak the language., along with not having the right educational background. It’s very challenging and super hard. 

He has always been a man of high ambitions. Big dreams. He is not from North America (Canada-Montreal) but has been living there and working there for many years and he was loving it. Now holds a Canadian citizenship and our children also became citizens of Canada (- you can apply for such thing if one of your parents are a citizen) He feels like Canada (North America) is home to him. He loves the mentality. The competitive (in regards to business) life, the people there. Litterly everything about it. The fact that he is certain that he can (or will at least work towards that) give us a much better life, which means more money and a bigger home. (Right now here in my home country we live in a 1 bedroom and 1 living room apartment with our two children) It’s not optimal but it’s located right in the city center and super cheap, plus my siblings lives a few min away and also my mom. 

Anyway. Husband really don’t like it here. He seems depressed. He has lost his ambitions completely. He is living a mediocre life. He hates it. He’s here because we have children now. 

I am so torn. On one hand this is where I want to be. Next to my family. The love that my children shares with their grandparents and aunt, uncle and their children (cousins) are priceless. And also, I love being close to my family. It’s very important to me. 
He understands all of this. And respects it. But he says “it is what it it, this is where we’ll live” with a face like someone who gave up on their own life and dreams. It’s super hard for me too. Hard to always feel like my days here with my parents and siblings “are counted”, cause it can’t continue this way; living with a miserable husband. Knowing that I am the “cause” of his misery...

I feel beyond torn. It might save our marriage to move away/give us a better financial future, but is any of that worth it for me in the long end, when I can’t be close to my dear parents and siblings - and for them not to be part of my children’s life?

What should I do??

Please ask any further questions of you have some. Had to make it short due to the kids waking up☺


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## marcy* (Feb 27, 2010)

When I came to USA I didn’t like it here. Very different way of living from what I was used to. I was shocked when I learned that the houses were made of wood.  The climate way too cold for me. I live in NorthEast. Never been in the water. Too cold. I used to love going to beach in my country, not here. Here I go just for a change, or fresh seafood Can’t get used with the snow either. Hate it.  But after 3 -4 years I got used with living here. I had to since going back was going to be harder. I lost my job, we spent all the money to cover expenses and we didn’t have our own house back home. Starting life from zero is not easy. Stopped complaining. But you husband has you who helps him with everything.
You have to sit down and talk about it. You are attached to your family, but maybe he is the same. Sometimes you don’t know what you can handle until you are put in this kind of situation. Maybe he wants the same things as you now. Being close to family, having them in your kids life. 
If you go live in his country are you going to feel same way as he feels right now? What can you do to make him feel more at home? How often does he go back to his country?


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

You have a lot going on here. You two are in a situation where, I am guessing, that you love each other very much. But you are both wanting to live somewhere, where the other will have major problems.

Is there anywhere else you two can move to where he can have a better chance at a job, but is also close to your family? As I understand it, travel between countries in Europe is commonplace. Is his background pure English, or is it French-English? What is his actual origin, as far as you are comfortable revealing? Is there any other language that he could more easily learn. It might be that moving to a neutral place, where you both have opportunity, but are also both sacrificing, might be a big help. 

I am worried about the fact that you have only a 1 bedroom place, but that may be the American in me.

While your family may be very important to you, keep in mind that many people leave their families to make their own. Are you willing to sacrifice your newer family to be close to your older one? Visits are possible.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I believe that your first responsibilities are towards your husband and children and Canada is a great place to live and bring up children. I have been there and have relatives there. If I had to leave the UK Canada would be my country of choice, many opportinuties there. Could you agree to go for say 2 years and make every effort to settle there and see how it goes? They say it takes 2 years to really settle somewhere.
Yes you will miss your wider family but when we get married we are supposed to leave our parents to some extent and join to our spouse. Canada isnt that far for you all to visit each other regularly. Vancouver is a 7 hour flight from the UK for example, so not much different from there I suspect. My husband moved from Oz to the UK the other side of the world because he married a British woman. He is happy here 33 years later and has never regretted coming here. As well as that only having one bedroom for 2 adults and 2 children is far from ideal, and once he can get a job there you will be able to afford a much bigger home where your parents/siblings will be able to come and stay for holidays and your children can have their own bedrooms.. Plus you did meet there after all, and he has tried hard to get work.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

marcy* said:


> When I came to USA I didn’t like it here. Very different way of living from what I was used to. I was shocked when I learned that the houses were made of wood.  The climate way too cold for me. I live in NorthEast. Never been in the water. Too cold. I used to love going to beach in my country, not here. Here I go just for a change, or fresh seafood Can’t get used with the snow either. Hate it.  But after 3 -4 years I got used with living here. I had to since going back was going to be harder. I lost my job, we spent all the money to cover expenses and we didn’t have our own house back home. Starting life from zero is not easy. Stopped complaining. But you husband has you who helps him with everything.
> You have to sit down and talk about it. You are attached to your family, but maybe he is the same. Sometimes you don’t know what you can handle until you are put in this kind of situation. Maybe he wants the same things as you now. Being close to family, having them in your kids life.
> If you go live in his country are you going to feel same way as he feels right now? What can you do to make him feel more at home? How often does he go back to his country?


Not sure if you noticed, but she did note that he wasn't originally from Canada or the US, but wants to live in Canada. Yes he has citizenship there, but that is not his place of origin.


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## marcy* (Feb 27, 2010)

maquiscat said:


> Not sure if you noticed, but she did note that he wasn't originally from Canada or the US, but wants to live in Canada. Yes he has citizenship there, but that is not his place of origin.


Yes I noticed it, but at this point I feel like he just want to go away from there. He probably thinks he would be happier anywhere but in her country.


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

Hi again everyone, I’m new to this forum, so I don’t know if it’s possible to answer each of you directly..so now I’m just gonna response you all in the same message.
Okay, so first of all; correct. Canada IS NOT his hometown. He’s originally from Greece. And that’s also where we met. Now, he went to Canada for the first time (alone) when he was only 16 (he was living with a very good friend at his friend’s parents house). Then went back to Greece, abs came back to Canada as a 21 y/o. And lives there, started a career, got some great friends whom he’s still in contact with. BUT! Canada is not his home..it’s not where he was born abd raised. Or where any of his family is living. They all live in Greece. But he always talks so fond of Montreal and as “home”. I just know that he will never be happy here in my country. He even says so himself. It’s very tough to hear. And very sad for him that he feels that way.
I have always tried to make him understand the good things about living here where we do; it’s a great system and safe country. It’s relatively close to Greece so we can visit his parents which we before the corona did every 4-5 months.
IF we were to live in Canada, then yes, he might have an easy/easier time finding a job...and be a provider. But I have made it clear that the extra money we would be getting would basically cover the travels to visit my family here in Scandinavia and also to visit his family in Greece. Not much would be left. 
He feels like an alien here..not knowing the language. Not having any of his people - good friends. He’s a very outgoing person abs ppl here, I guess, are quite introvert. They keep to their own little circle
of friends.
Sometimes he tells me, that if I actually would like to move he might wouldn’t even bring him to Montreal (due to the TERRIBLE winters!!) but instead we should go to Toronto. He has some “family” there (meaning, his grandmothers brothers children...who we are not really in contact with..at all..except for being Fb friends🙄)
But that comment of “well, we could also go to Toronto”, makes me so upset at him. I’ve told him it sounds like some kind of a game: Eeny, Meeny, Mini, Mo..Where Should We Go”!?! It frustrates me. I told him that I am not interested in the first place to move away from my family here, but AT LEAST in Montreal he has a lot of friends and people he know.. Why suddenly speak of a third place!?! 😡
I have thought of doing a 1 or 2 years in Montreal in the past...but honestly, let’s be honest here (I’ve also told him this) Let’s say that he would do well. Financially. We get to live in a bigger home. Don’t worry about finances like we do now. But I am not happy I miss my mom too much. Abs to see her with my children. Would it then be realisticly for me to simply state “let’s go back”. Let’s go back to my home country. To the same small apartment we live in now. To you not having a job..To the frustrations.

No. I don’t think I could do that. But in my heart I don’t see me living without my parents, siblings either.
My mom is so connected to my oldest son (he’s 2 years and 8 months). She loves him so much!! She calls him her vitamin pill❤ She gets so thrilled from spending time with him. And she’s missing him if 3 days went by without seeing him... 

It’s so tough 😢😢😢


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

This is a no win scenario. He will never be happy in Scandinavia and you will never be happy anywhere else. There is no compromise and any attempt to compromise will likely just make you both miserable instead of one.

Assuming you both want to stay together regardless, you're already in Scandinavia and your kids have family and attachments. Since he moved to your country and intentionally started a family there, it seems pretty selfish to uproot the kids now. 

It's time for your husband to suck it up and learn the language. Being Greek he already knows that one. He most likely speaks English as well. There a decent chance he learned French if he prospered in Montreal. So, he has the ability to learn languages. My bet is he simply refuses to learn your native tongue as to do so would further erode his chances to escape. If he really worked hard to succeed financially, you would be able to afford a better place and other niceties. It's a lot less likely that you would acquiesce on relocation if life is even better, no?

Think about it. How can someone live immersed in a culture for at least three years and not learn the language in a sufficiently functional manner to find gainful employment? Especially with your help and what I expect is pretty good availability of more formal educational resources. 

This is part of being an adult. Your husband made a poor choice to start a family in a country he dislikes with a woman who is enmeshed with her family. Now he gets to be a grown up, embrace the sacrifice and do his best to make the situation work. Mistakes come with costs. Pay the price or the bill will continue to rise.

Oh and by the way, Toronto is not some tropical paradise. There are cold, snowy winters there too. The cities have very different flavors, but they are similar enough that I can see him thinking of Toronto as a reasonable substitute for Montreal. Additionally, Toronto has always seemed more accepting and tolerant of foreigners than Montreal to me. I like both cities and if I had to choose I would rather visit Montreal but live in Toronto. Of course, that comes from my decidedly American perspective. I really like Canada a lot and think it would be a great place to live, but I doubt any of it's great qualities will offer you much comfort when you are missing your family. 

Good luck.


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

Zookeeper, THANK YOU SO MUCH for your perspective of things!!! I highly appreciate it!!
You absolutely get the situation correct. 
Yes, husbands English is today far better almost than his native language. Most of his English he learned while living in Montreal. I get that here in Scandinavia everyone has a quite good English and prefer switching over to English when speaking to a foreigner, which absolutely makes it harder for newcomers to learn the language. My husband also has adhd and is dyslexic. Always had a very hard time in school every since he was a child. 
In Montreal he finally succeeded. He worked for a big company and was well respected. Was good at what he was doing. And earned well. Along with that he had GREAT friendships there. Thinking of all of that I ABSOLUTELY get why he would want to go back to Canada/ Montreal. He had/has everything there, that he’s lacking here. Had success. Friends. Could freely communicate in English with everyone. A great job. A steady life.
Here he has me and the kids. We fight a lot. The kids are wonderful. I don’t have many friends here. I have a very small portion of friends. My friends are not what keeps me hanging in my home country. Only my family is. I just don’t know if it’s selfish of me to want to stay here when I see that things doesn’t work between us here. I feel it’s either I keep the marriage/our family and we move. Or we stay and he’s miserable.
Greece could also be an option he from time to time says. Well, at least that’s much closer to my home country. And at least we have ACTUAL family there; kids grandparents, and uncle, and my husbands cousins and their kids. In Montreal the kids will have no relatives by blood. Which would saddened me beyond words.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

I'm from the Midwestern US and have lived within a quick freeway trip to Canada all my life. My state has many Canadians who are immigrants due to marriage or work, many Canadians who come here to shop, and many Americans who drive to Canada daily to work. It's a lovely country and the people are genuinely open, friendly, and helpful.



Strawberry1984 said:


> IF we were to live in Canada, then yes, he might have an easy/easier time finding a job...and be a provider. But I have made it clear that the extra money we would be getting would basically cover the travels to visit my family here in Scandinavia and also to visit his family in Greece. Not much would be left.


Many men define themselves and their worth as men by their ability to work and provide. It's a huge part of their identity. The older he gets and the longer he is unemployed the harder it will be for him to find a job anywhere in any country and the more depressed and resentful he will become.

He needs to work. Your family needs a better living situation. 4 people in a tiny 1 bedroom is ridiculous if you have any other options at all. Married couples need privacy to refresh their bond as romantic partners. Children need privacy and to have their own space so they can learn independence.

You don't need to see your parents so often that, if you moved, there would be no benefit to the move. That is a want, not a need. If you did move to Canada to save your husband and marriage you'd have to accept seeing your family less than you'd like in order that the move be financially beneficial. You'd have to video chat, email, phone, and text your family frequently so you can keep them an active part of your life.



Strawberry1984 said:


> He’s a very outgoing person abs ppl here, I guess, are quite introvert. They keep to their own little circle
> of friends.


Yes, it is my understanding that Scandinavians are very introverted by North American standards. I imagine it is very difficult for him to not only be unable to work and provide a better standard of living for his small family and to be stuck in such a small living space, but to do it while being socially isolated must be torture.



Strawberry1984 said:


> Sometimes he tells me, that if I actually would like to move he might wouldn’t even bring him to Montreal (due to the TERRIBLE winters!!) but instead we should go to Toronto. He has some “family” there (meaning, his grandmothers brothers children...who we are not really in contact with..at all..except for being Fb friends🙄)


Why must he live near family at all? I doesn't seem to be much of a consideration for him. It's not uncommon at all here for people to move hundreds or thousands of miles away from their families for education and then for work.



Strawberry1984 said:


> But that comment of “well, we could also go to Toronto”, makes me so upset at him. I’ve told him it sounds like some kind of a game: Eeny, Meeny, Mini, Mo..Where Should We Go”!?! It frustrates me. I told him that I am not interested in the first place to move away from my family here, but AT LEAST in Montreal he has a lot of friends and people he know.. Why suddenly speak of a third place!?! 😡


This is a cultural difference I don't think you understand very well.

Here it is common to select a place to live based on climate, job market, cost of living, educational opportunities, etc. People here aren't nearly as introverted, so it is expected that people who move to a new place will quickly make new friends and that some of those friendships may become very much like family. If he's not concerned about living near blood relatives, then all that matters is settling in a place that he can find work and that has other benefits.



Strawberry1984 said:


> No. I don’t think I could do that. But in my heart I don’t see me living without my parents, siblings either.
> My mom is so connected to my oldest son (he’s 2 years and 8 months). She loves him so much!! She calls him her vitamin pill❤ She gets so thrilled from spending time with him. And she’s missing him if 3 days went by without seeing him...
> 
> It’s so tough 😢😢😢


It is tough. The reality is that he is deeply unhappy in your country and he is only staying there because of you and the children. To do this he is sacrificing himself. Either he will eventually come to resent you so much he leaves or he will stop fighting it, accept this is his life, and become a shell of the man he is or could have been.

I think you should try Canada for 2 years. If you can't do it, then at least you tried. If you can't see yourself living in Canada even for a short time then it might be kinder to both of you to end the marriage and set him free.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Strawberry1984 said:


> Hi everyone
> Firstly, I’m from Scandinavia, so English is not my mother tongue..therefore I apologize for any of my mistakes🙃
> 
> Husband and I have been together for 6 years. He's 33 y/I and I’m 36.
> ...


Whereabouts in DK are you?
It can be a tough nation to settle in to, socialising is very tough.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

It seems to me that your parents and extended family are more important to you than the family you should be building with your husband and children.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@Strawberry1984 I can empathise with your husband, as I have dyslexia, too, which did cause some problems for me. But I was able to become a journalist and a published writer, so all sorts of things can be possible.

Has he received counselling?


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> I believe that your first responsibilities are towards your husband and children and Canada is a great place to live and bring up children. I have been there and have relatives there. If I had to leave the UK Canada would be my country of choice, many opportinuties there. Could you agree to go for say 2 years and make every effort to settle there and see how it goes? They say it takes 2 years to really settle somewhere.
> Yes you will miss your wider family but when we get married we are supposed to leave our parents to some extent and join to our spouse. Canada isnt that far for you all to visit each other regularly. Vancouver is a 7 hour flight from the UK for example, so not much different from there I suspect. My husband moved from Oz to the UK the other side of the world because he married a British woman. He is happy here 33 years later and has never regretted coming here. As well as that only having one bedroom for 2 adults and 2 children is far from ideal, and once he can get a job there you will be able to afford a much bigger home where your parents/siblings will be able to come and stay for holidays and your children can have their own bedrooms.. Plus you did meet there after all, and he has tried hard to get work.


Asking a Dane to live long term outside of Denmark is a massively big request!


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Moving to Montreal would be a bad decision if your husband isn't fluent in French. The people there do speak French and English, but it's a bilingual city and you really do need to be bilingual to succeed there. My wife spent a good chunk of her childhood there and we travel there occasionally. She loves it but French (and Swedish) are her first languages, I strongly dislike being there and have never felt comfortable because my French sucks. Your husband may have done well at one point but I wouldn't rely on that now and I think you'd be foolish to. Even in other cities outside of Quebec and New Brunswick being fluent in French is a huge asset and sometimes required. 

That being said, you both need to come to some sort of realistic compromise. You are being selfish and putting your wants above your husbands. It sounds like he has done a lot of sacrificing for you, what have you done for him?


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

We do not actually know much yet.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Strawberry1984 said:


> Hi again everyone, I’m new to this forum, so I don’t know if it’s possible to answer each of you directly..so now I’m just gonna response you all in the same message.
> Okay, so first of all; correct. Canada IS NOT his hometown. He’s originally from Greece. And that’s also where we met. Now, he went to Canada for the first time (alone) when he was only 16 (he was living with a very good friend at his friend’s parents house). Then went back to Greece, abs came back to Canada as a 21 y/o. And lives there, started a career, got some great friends whom he’s still in contact with. BUT! Canada is not his home..it’s not where he was born abd raised. Or where any of his family is living. They all live in Greece. But he always talks so fond of Montreal and as “home”. I just know that he will never be happy here in my country. He even says so himself. It’s very tough to hear. And very sad for him that he feels that way.
> I have always tried to make him understand the good things about living here where we do; it’s a great system and safe country. It’s relatively close to Greece so we can visit his parents which we before the corona did every 4-5 months.
> IF we were to live in Canada, then yes, he might have an easy/easier time finding a job...and be a provider. But I have made it clear that the extra money we would be getting would basically cover the travels to visit my family here in Scandinavia and also to visit his family in Greece. Not much would be left.
> ...


In the end its a choice between what is best for your husband and therefore your marriage or your mum. Many spouses make that choice all the time. Your children are very small, they will settle wherever you live and Canada is a great country to live in. The people are lovely and the scenery is amazing. Most of my ex husband's family settled there, they all love it and have bought their own children up there. Some are in Montreal and some in Vancouver which is nearer to Europe.
You say that all of his earnings will be spent on you visiting your family and he his? Surely thats just not true. How many times are you intending to go??? Surely if they come and visit you a couple of times a year and you go to them say twice a year for a couple of weeks each time thats enough? You can double up and have part of the time with one family in Greece and half with the other in Scandanavia so as not to make two longer flights.


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

MJJEAN, thank you for your time and response.
I completely understand what you’re saying and where you’re coming from. But there’s a huge cultural difference here I can tell. It is not that commen for a Dane to “just” move abroad. Or, to some people here it is, but to me and the people I know, it isn’t. In the US and N. A. everything is so big and far away, and I know it’s not uncommon to marry someone from a different state and move to that place...and that state might be hours and hours away..by flight. I live in Denmark. It’s a super small country. It’s a very different mentality towards relocating. 
Yes, our living situation isn’t optimal. Our apartment is too small. But again, I guess also this is a cultural difference. Most parents here finds it naturally for their small children (our kids are only 7 months and still breastfeeding, and 2.8 years old).
It’s quite normal if you want to live downtown that housing is super expensive and small. But all of this is a different story
I hear that some of you sees this as if I am sacrifice my own little family, in order to live in the same country as my parents and siblings. I understand why you would think that way. A small part of me is also thinking like that, but that is only when I take my husbands perspective of this matter. Does that make sense? Like, I would never think that it would be “selfish” of me to live in my country where my kids grandparents live and their cousins etc., if it haven’t been for him. He tells me that even if he should find himself a job here, he feels like it’s a numb country. People don’t meet up. There’s no vibe. People keeps to themselves. Newcomers like him, will never make née friends, cause people don’t seem willing to expand their circle. It’s super tough to hear that even IF he should find himself a job, he doesn’t think he’d be happy here. It’s like as if there’s no other way but to leave.
I, as a person is also a “pleaser”; meaning that I sometimes do things to make others happy, and forgetting myself. And then afterwards getting upset that I did.

I can’t speak to my family about this. My mom who I am super connected to is always telling me not to think about her, but to do what is good for us. But at the same time that it’s extremely important to have a plan, and if we decide to relocate, that my husband goes in advance, finds a job, and a house/a home, before bringing the whole family down to a place where we don’t even have a place to live, and he doesn’t have a job/an income. Now, yes she’s saying we should maybe try it, but I know my mom VERY well..her biggest wish obviously is that we would stay! It would break her heart if I left.


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

Husband isn’t fluent in French at all! He doesn’t know how to speak at all. Me neither. But his English is really good


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Strawberry1984 said:


> Zookeeper, THANK YOU SO MUCH for your perspective of things!!! I highly appreciate it!!
> You absolutely get the situation correct.
> Yes, husbands English is today far better almost than his native language. Most of his English he learned while living in Montreal. I get that here in Scandinavia everyone has a quite good English and prefer switching over to English when speaking to a foreigner, which absolutely makes it harder for newcomers to learn the language. My husband also has adhd and is dyslexic. Always had a very hard time in school every since he was a child.
> In Montreal he finally succeeded. He worked for a big company and was well respected. Was good at what he was doing. And earned well. Along with that he had GREAT friendships there. Thinking of all of that I ABSOLUTELY get why he would want to go back to Canada/ Montreal. He had/has everything there, that he’s lacking here. Had success. Friends. Could freely communicate in English with everyone. A great job. A steady life.
> ...


It doesnt seem that he is close to his family being that he initially left home at 16 and went to live in Canada! I would far far rather live in Canada that Greece, Greece has so many serious financial issues and I doubt there are anything like the opportinities there that Canada offers. Also your English is good, you would have to learn Greek. 
Good friends can turn out to be just as close as wider family. My step son and His wife who is Argentinian live in Oz. They met there and seem happy despite not having any relatives, they have friends. Maybe its time to cut the ties a little with your wider family, its what we are supposed to do when we marry and make a new family. 
We are so lucky today with skype, email, facetime etc etc, you can talk to your family regularly.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Strawberry1984 said:


> MJJEAN, thank you for your time and response.
> I completely understand what you’re saying and where you’re coming from. But there’s a huge cultural difference here I can tell. It is not that commen for a Dane to “just” move abroad. Or, to some people here it is, but to me and the people I know, it isn’t. In the US and N. A. everything is so big and far away, and I know it’s not uncommon to marry someone from a different state and move to that place...and that state might be hours and hours away..by flight. I live in Denmark. It’s a super small country. It’s a very different mentality towards relocating.
> Yes, our living situation isn’t optimal. Our apartment is too small. But again, I guess also this is a cultural difference. Most parents here finds it naturally for their small children (our kids are only 7 months and still breastfeeding, and 2.8 years old).
> It’s quite normal if you want to live downtown that housing is super expensive and small. But all of this is a different story
> ...


Your mother is being very wise and sensible, she doesnt want to see your marriage break up.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Strawberry1984 said:


> Husband isn’t fluent in French at all! He doesn’t know how to speak at all. Me neither. But his English is really good


I have a older relative in Montreal married to a French Canadian, he emigrated from the UK and didnt speak french, he did fine. Besides that, french isnt a hard language to learn.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

zookeeper said:


> This is a no win scenario. He will never be happy in Scandinavia and you will never be happy anywhere else. There is no compromise and any attempt to compromise will likely just make you both miserable instead of one.
> 
> Assuming you both want to stay together regardless, you're already in Scandinavia and your kids have family and attachments. Since he moved to your country and intentionally started a family there, it seems pretty selfish to uproot the kids now.
> 
> ...


The children are babies, its not going to trouble them at all.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Strawberry1984 said:


> Hi everyone
> Firstly, I’m from Scandinavia, so English is not my mother tongue..therefore I apologize for any of my mistakes🙃
> 
> Husband and I have been together for 6 years. He's 33 y/I and I’m 36.
> ...


Well this is a tough one. I can totally see where your husband is coming from on one hand, but on the other I kind of feel like he is being a baby. I get Scandinavian languages are hard but three years is plenty of time to become reasonably proficient with some effort. Especially if he learns it he can find a job easier, then you can afford a better living arrangement, then things start to improve. He'll feel like less of an outsider and start to feel more at home. 

So I do sympathize with him but he could be taking more responsibility for his own happiness. Torille!


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

MJJEAN said:


> I'm from the Midwestern US and have lived within a quick freeway trip to Canada all my life. My state has many Canadians who are immigrants due to marriage or work, many Canadians who come here to shop, and many Americans who drive to Canada daily to work. It's a lovely country and the people are genuinely open, friendly, and helpful.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree with this 100%!!

I'm not from the US but I met my husband and stayed here. 

I'm not going to lie, it's hard to move and immerse in another country and culture. Even now, 19 years later, I feel lost in translation sometimes!

I also come from a culture where families stick together (too much for my taste) and where friendships are forever. 

My husband and I have lived in different states away from family. We moved closer to family five years ago! We had no family who could watch our kids, but we met good people who have been our friends for years.

My husband and I have been through a roller coaster, full of changes. My husband has been laid off, he's been sick, we've moved 7 times chasing a job. It hasn't been easy but we both have been commited to each other. The moment I married my husband, he became my priority. He became my nuclear family. My parents, siblings, cousins became second family to me. 

If you both can't find middle ground where to live, I think it's going to be very difficult for you to have a successful marriage. 

There are other places to live. Do some research and see if he can find a job somewhere else in Europe. He can also find something online working from home. There are groups on fb or reddit posting jobs from home, they call themselves "digital nomads."

It was hard for me to find a good job at the beginning. English is my second language, I had no previous working experience in this country, I had no references, but little by little I had to push myself and did not give up easily. I didn't have glamourous jobs at the beginning. I was a nanny for years before I had the experience and references needed to land a better job. Your husband might have to start at the bottom if you both decide to stay there. Nothing wrong with that, it's part of moving to a different country.

If I were you, I'd move to another country with my husband. I would choose a country where we could have a better life and which can provide a good future for our kids. You both can make friends anywhere you go. You can find expats with families and they might help you navigate a new area. 

You guys have to decide what's best for your nuclear family. Good luck!


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Strawberry1984 said:


> I hear that some of you sees this as if I am sacrifice my own little family, in order to live in the same country as my parents and siblings. I understand why you would think that way. A small part of me is also thinking like that, but that is only when I take my husbands perspective of this matter.


You are a married woman and a mother. You committed to being his life partner, come what may. You're supposed to think of your husband's perspective. That is a huge part of being married!



Strawberry1984 said:


> I would never think that it would be “selfish” of me to live in my country where my kids grandparents live and their cousins etc., if it haven’t been for him.


Well, yes. If you'd married a Dane there would be nothing at all selfish about wanting to stay in your home country with your family nearby. Presumably, your Dane husband would want to stay in the home country, too.

You didn't marry a Dane. You married someone who was born in Greece, but thinks of Canada as home.



Strawberry1984 said:


> He tells me that even if he should find himself a job here, he feels like it’s a numb country. People don’t meet up. There’s no vibe. People keeps to themselves. Newcomers like him, will never make née friends, cause people don’t seem willing to expand their circle. It’s super tough to hear that even IF he should find himself a job, he doesn’t think he’d be happy here. It’s like as if there’s no other way but to leave.


People from here are very used to and appreciate the vastness of the continent. We're used to the distances and think nothing of it. In fact, we tend to like to spread out. We like larger houses and to have space. We value individuality. We like privacy. We also like to get together and be friendly. We routinely make friends in all sorts of ways from online to at work to going to parties or clubs/bars.

Your husband may not have been born here, but it sounds like he is the kind of person who thrives in this environment. North America seems to suit him. For him, there likely is no way out but to leave. He needs to be able to work, be social, and have a larger living space. He can't get that in your country.


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

I read each and every of your messages and take everything you write me into consideration. Gonna read it all again when the kids are sleeping. It’s interesting how many of you don’t understand the need (?) fit a married woman to be close to her extended family (siblings, parents, nephews and nieces). In this case I actually don’t think it’s necessarily a cultural difference..it might be more that we in my family are super attached to one another. Brought up this way. Despite not being Italian I guess that the family ties in what you would call a typical Italian family is how my family is connected. It would be an enormous loss for me not to have them every day with me. My parents aren’t young anymore. Canada of anywhere around that area is very far. And very expensive to travel to. My sister is a lonely mother with 3 children. She would never afford visiting me. My parents is on pension. And for us, a family of (so far) 4 people to visit them will be so ridiculously expensive.
Anyway, again I understand why you all say that this is a matter of compromise and “what have you done for your husband”? Well, my husband knew from the beginning that I was super connected to my family and knew that if he wanted me, then he’d have to come and live with me here. Around 6 months into living here he already started complaining. Hate the weather. He was a well traveled guy, and “never, ever saw himself settling in a country like tiny Denmark”. He never really spoke highly of it. 
I feel like and always felt like he never wanted to live here...never gave it a fair chance. He knew what he got himself into.
Now, on top of all this we also have a very turbulent relationship. Tons of fights. Tons of ups and downs. Don’t see eye to eye on much. Argue a lot. I would say that if we would have had a super steady marriage and a strong friendship between us, then I’d might also had considered moving abroad with him a bit more. But honestly..relocating, which would be against my own wish/will, only to make my husband happy and to maybe save the marriage, and to not have my parents physically around, would be a really bad idea I think, when our relationship is so rocky and unstable


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

OP, based on your last post, it sounds like you've made up your mind that staying where you are with your family is what's most important to you. You should have a serious talk about this with your H and be absolutely clear that staying there is not negotiable, that you will never leave. I would tell him to search his heart and if he can't stay then you should amicably end the marriage. If he decides to stay then it's on him to accept it and begin to assimilate by learning the language so he can find a decent job. It can't be easy for you all to live in that tiny apartment. Perhaps you could compromise and ask your family if they can lend you some money so you can find a bigger place once your H has a job there.


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

marcy* said:


> When I came to USA I didn’t like it here. Very different way of living from what I was used to. I was shocked when I learned that the houses were made of wood.  The climate way too cold for me. I live in NorthEast. Never been in the water. Too cold. I used to love going to beach in my country, not here. Here I go just for a change, or fresh seafood Can’t get used with the snow either. Hate it.  But after 3 -4 years I got used with living here. I had to since going back was going to be harder. I lost my job, we spent all the money to cover expenses and we didn’t have our own house back home. Starting life from zero is not easy. Stopped complaining. But you husband has you who helps him with everything.
> You have to sit down and talk about it. You are attached to your family, but maybe he is the same. Sometimes you don’t know what you can handle until you are put in this kind of situation. Maybe he wants the same things as you now. Being close to family, having them in your kids life.
> If you go live in his country are you going to feel same way as he feels right now? What can you do to make him feel more at home? How often does he go back to his country?


Before COVID we used to visit his family in Greece 3 times a year. Now, they haven’t even been able to meet our 8 months old daughter. Our oldest (2.8 y/o) have been visiting numerous times with us. We love going there. But it’s also easy. We stay with the family. They take so good care of us. Weather is amazing. Nice and warn. They invite us out for nice dinners etc. We love to go there for a visit. And absolutely, despite the fact that husband left his family at a young age to live in Montreal, I can tell that he now from time to time miss having his family around and have them seeing their grandchildren. I totally get that and it saddens me. When he speak to me about maybe we should try out Greece I often say one thing is to enjoy a great vacation there with a place to stay abs everything being paid for. Another thing is to actually live there. It’s quite hard financially.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Strawberry1984 said:


> I read each and every of your messages and take everything you write me into consideration. Gonna read it all again when the kids are sleeping. It’s interesting how many of you don’t understand the need (?) fit a married woman to be close to her extended family (siblings, parents, nephews and nieces). In this case I actually don’t think it’s necessarily a cultural difference..it might be more that we in my family are super attached to one another. Brought up this way. Despite not being Italian I guess that the family ties in what you would call a typical Italian family is how my family is connected. It would be an enormous loss for me not to have them every day with me. My parents aren’t young anymore. Canada of anywhere around that area is very far. And very expensive to travel to. My sister is a lonely mother with 3 children. She would never afford visiting me. My parents is on pension. And for us, a family of (so far) 4 people to visit them will be so ridiculously expensive.
> Anyway, again I understand why you all say that this is a matter of compromise and “what have you done for your husband”? Well, my husband knew from the beginning that I was super connected to my family and knew that if he wanted me, then he’d have to come and live with me here. Around 6 months into living here he already started complaining. Hate the weather. He was a well traveled guy, and “never, ever saw himself settling in a country like tiny Denmark”. He never really spoke highly of it.
> I feel like and always felt like he never wanted to live here...never gave it a fair chance. He knew what he got himself into.
> Now, on top of all this we also have a very turbulent relationship. Tons of fights. Tons of ups and downs. Don’t see eye to eye on much. Argue a lot. I would say that if we would have had a super steady marriage and a strong friendship between us, then I’d might also had considered moving abroad with him a bit more. But honestly..relocating, which would be against my own wish/will, only to make my husband happy and to maybe save the marriage, and to not have my parents physically around, would be a really bad idea I think, when our relationship is so rocky and unstable


It sounds like you are married to your parents. It sounds like you don't really care about your husband. No wonder you fight.

I think you should never have had children together, but I know that ship has sailed.

You are more worried about how your mother doesn't like it if she goes three days without seeing your kids than your husband's happiness.


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

maquiscat said:


> You have a lot going on here. You two are in a situation where, I am guessing, that you love each other very much. But you are both wanting to live somewhere, where the other will have major problems.
> 
> Is there anywhere else you two can move to where he can have a better chance at a job, but is also close to your family? As I understand it, travel between countries in Europe is commonplace. Is his background pure English, or is it French-English? What is his actual origin, as far as you are comfortable revealing? Is there any other language that he could more easily learn. It might be that moving to a neutral place, where you both have opportunity, but are also both sacrificing, might be a big help.
> 
> ...


I wouldn’t know where else we should go. For me, family is SO very important. Preferably to live close to my own family. But if that’s not going to be an option, then to live in a place where we DO have family. In Greece where he’s from COULD be an option. Although living is quite hard. And I’d had to lean the language. But I find it “so wrong” to relocate to a far away place where we have no relatives at all. At the same time, I am super tired of this situation. His mod swings due to our situation. That he isn’t happy. That he is losing himself and his dreams. I don’t have the same “big” dreams as he does.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

He's a Canadian citizen, as are your kids. He told you where he wants to go.


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## maree (Jun 13, 2011)

Are there any groups in your country where people from foreign countries get to meet? Maybe a class on your language? Maybe he could meet some people of similar background as him who are experiencing the same culture shock as your husband, maybe that will give him a circle. There are probably plenty of foreign people living in your country who he could befriend who may not have the same cultural perspective as Scandinavians. 

Otherwise, you have a tough decision. If it was me I would look at the kids lives and what is best for them. Write a pros and cons list for each scenario. Staying in Scandinavia they will have close relationships with your relatives, be able to visit husbands relatives much more often, but very well could lead to a divorce and their Dad not being a big part of their life. Moving to Canada may force them to lose their relationships to some degree with your family, but may allow them to keep a relationship with their dad that could blossom and be healthy.

For me it would be very difficult for me to commit to moving to a country with my 2 children that I have never even been to. It is possible you will be just as miserable as your husband is right now but in Canada. I like another posters recommendation of finding a more neutral place where your husband may fit in more that is still close enough for short travel to your family. There must be some place like that?


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> I believe that your first responsibilities are towards your husband and children and Canada is a great place to live and bring up children. I have been there and have relatives there. If I had to leave the UK Canada would be my country of choice, many opportinuties there. Could you agree to go for say 2 years and make every effort to settle there and see how it goes? They say it takes 2 years to really settle somewhere.
> Yes you will miss your wider family but when we get married we are supposed to leave our parents to some extent and join to our spouse. Canada isnt that far for you all to visit each other regularly. Vancouver is a 7 hour flight from the UK for example, so not much different from there I suspect. My husband moved from Oz to the UK the other side of the world because he married a British woman. He is happy here 33 years later and has never regretted coming here. As well as that only having one bedroom for 2 adults and 2 children is far from ideal, and once he can get a job there you will be able to afford a much bigger home where your parents/siblings will be able to come and stay for holidays and your children can have their own bedrooms.. Plus you did meet there after all, and he has tried hard to get work.


I visited Canada (Montreal) with him once. That was before having children. It was great. Beautiful. Super nice people. They made me feel welcome. Or maybe it was the fact that I was in a strange country, yet a country where I felt I could engage in a conversation as I understand everything as they all spoke English. His friends all speak English there (not French). So from that aspect it was great. And instantly felt a bit “well-known” due to that there isn’t any langue obstacles. We stayed at his friends place. Borrowed their cars. At a certain point we also leased out own car. Drove around. Always had something to do, places to see people to meet. Yes, we were on vacation! It’s all fun and nice when you’re on vacation. It’s another thing to actually live there. I could try it out for a few years basically, but as I also stated in another post, then what?? Let’s say he gets a good job. Great income. Bigger place to live in than what we live in here in Denmark. Should I then say “honey, I’m homesick. I’ve tried it out and I simply kiss my family way too much. Let’s go back to a small apartment. And you, back to being unemployed”. Like, I don’t think I could ever do that. You know what I mean? 😢
A much bigger home, better living conditions will be on the expense of grandchildren not having their grandparents around. Or any family except for their mom and dad. I find that thought so very sad.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Strawberry1984 said:


> I visited Canada (Montreal) with him once. That was before having children. It was great. Beautiful. Super nice people. They made me feel welcome. Or maybe it was the fact that I was in a strange country, yet a country where I felt I could engage in a conversation as I understand everything as they all spoke English. His friends all speak English there (not French). So from that aspect it was great. And instantly felt a bit “well-known” due to that there isn’t any langue obstacles. We stayed at his friends place. Borrowed their cars. At a certain point we also leased out own car. Drove around. Always had something to do, places to see people to meet. Yes, we were on vacation! It’s all fun and nice when you’re on vacation. It’s another thing to actually live there. I could try it out for a few years basically, but as I also stated in another post, then what?? Let’s say he gets a good job. Great income. Bigger place to live in than what we live in here in Denmark. Should I then say “honey, I’m homesick. I’ve tried it out and I simply kiss my family way too much. Let’s go back to a small apartment. And you, back to being unemployed”. Like, I don’t think I could ever do that. You know what I mean? 😢
> A much bigger home, better living conditions will be on the expense of grandchildren not having their grandparents around. Or any family except for their mom and dad. I find that thought so very sad.


Again, you are focused on your parents, their relationship with you, and their relationship with your kids. It's almost like your own nuclear family you made with this man is an afterthought in your life (as is your husband). I find that very sad.


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

zookeeper said:


> This is a no win scenario. He will never be happy in Scandinavia and you will never be happy anywhere else. There is no compromise and any attempt to compromise will likely just make you both miserable instead of one.
> 
> Assuming you both want to stay together regardless, you're already in Scandinavia and your kids have family and attachments. Since he moved to your country and intentionally started a family there, it seems pretty selfish to uproot the kids now.
> 
> ...


You are completely right. And that’s also what makes me sad. There’s no “winners” in this game. Whatever the decision will be, one of us will end up making a big sacrifice.
Despite the fact that we have tons of issues, fights and ongoing argument, we are still together. Mostly maybe for the sake of the kids. But also, we at times also do enjoy each others company. I would also say that it’s important to remember the big changes that we’ve been through together in a relatively small amount of time; met 6 y ago. Both students. Visited each other’s country on the regular. Then he moved to my country. Prior to that he proposed. We then married. Then I got pregnant. He had to get adjusted to a Jew country. New place. New mentality. New everything. Not having a job. Searching. No luck. Lots of rejections. His big international business dreams being slowly crushed. Struggling with trying to learn the language. Then I got pregnant again. And now we are here. A lot of stress. A lot of worries. A lot of hopelessness.

Oh I totally get you when you say he needs to grow up and simply understand that when you say a you gotta say b. He came here out of his own free will. He know I was super connected and attached to my family. He even stated back in the days that it’s important for a girl to be close to her family when starting a family on her own.
And when I get upset at him/frustrated, I tell him that I am sorry for the the way he feels, but he should have thought of that before we got married and had children. That’s when I’m upset at him. And then afterwards I get a bad conscious, cause that’s me. I easily get a bad conscious and I feel it isn’t fair of me to put my foot down like that by saying that this is where you’re going to live “suck it up”. I doesn’t feel good or considerate of me at all.
When I sometimes feel like giving up on everything and just to have him have his beloved North American dream/(suggest him that we will go there), then he tells me that he would have done it if he knew I would be the kind of partner to live abroad. If I was the kind of partner who could handle it. But you are not, he tells me. Which basically also makes me sad, as I then understand that no matter how miserable he is here in Denmark, then my personality/my needs are forcing him to stay...😔


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

I'm having a difficult time understanding why you came here, and I mean this with no disrespect intended. "He knew what he was getting himself into" seems more like the words of somebody who came here looking for people to agree with her and comes across, if I may say so, rather callous towards his feelings. By your own words, you're completely fine with the sacrifices in your marriage being made so long as they are all made by him. For what it's worth, millions of people from familial cultures have immigrated to Canada, and seem to make it work quite nicely here.

I'm not itching to leave this country, but I would never force my wife to live in a place which she told me offers her no future hope of happiness.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Strawberry1984 said:


> Now, on top of all this we also have a very turbulent relationship. Tons of fights. Tons of ups and downs. Don’t see eye to eye on much. Argue a lot. I would say that if we would have had a super steady marriage and a strong friendship between us, then I’d might also had considered moving abroad with him a bit more. But honestly..relocating, which would be against my own wish/will, only to make my husband happy and to maybe save the marriage, and to not have my parents physically around, would be a really bad idea I think, when our relationship is so rocky and unstable


It's no surprise a miserable man with no real prospects and no future would be hard to live with. You're attached to your parents and do not want to leave. That's the end of it. Own it. Tell him the reality is that your family IS more important than him and your marriage and that he can either work hard to assimilate to living and working in Denmark or leave for a place that suits him better. End of. No more discussion. Time to get on with it one way or the other.



Strawberry1984 said:


> For me, family is SO very important. Preferably to live close to my own family.


The truly tragic thing, for him and the children, is that you clearly don't see your husband as your family.


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

MJJEAN said:


> life.





Livvie said:


> Again, you are focused on your parents, their relationship with you, and their relationship with your kids. It's almost like your own nuclear family you made with this man is an afterthought in your life (as is your husband). I find that very sad.


 I can understand such a comment coming my way. That it’s seems like everything is about me. It isn’t. Its not only about my needs. If it was I wouldn’t seek any help or advice. I’d just keep living the way we do with no conscience. But I do have a conscience. A terrible one actually. I am torn just like I said at the beginning of the posts. I a girl who doesn’t like changes. I am terrified of them. I’m a girl who likes her safety. My husband is the opposite. It takes some guts to relocate on your own at the age of 16 y/o.
He’s an adventurer. He doesn’t necessarily need to live in the country as his parents. He’s talking to them on the regular though. So it’s not like they aren’t on good term. They are on excellent terms. But my point here is that he knew from the beginning that I was and am super attached to my family. It would break my heart not to have them in my and our kids life. Especially my mom plays a huge role. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with saying or admitting to have a great attachment to your parents and that you’d wish that you could always live close to them so they can enjoy their grandchildren and vice versa. Some of my absolute best memories of my own childhood are the ones with my late grandparents. They played a huge role in my life. To have a desire to have your immediate family (I call my parents and siblings my immediate family..I don’t know what else to call them?) is not something I think is unacceptable. 
But yes. Should my desire to have them next to me be more important thanthe well-being of my own little family? Absolutely not.
I just feel frustrated over the situation. That he tells me “well, this is where we live, and I’ve come to terms with that. But I know that I never will WANT to succeed here” 
Of course we can not live like this. It’s not good fir him. Or for me. Or for our children. I truly appreciate the advice..to get a different aspect to the matter


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

MJJEAN said:


> It's no surprise a miserable man with no real prospects and no future would be hard to live with. You're attached to your parents and do not want to leave. That's the end of it. Own it. Tell him the reality is that your family IS more important than him and your marriage and that he can either work hard to assimilate to living and working in Denmark or leave for a place that suits him better. End of. No more discussion. Time to get on with it one way or the other.
> 
> 
> 
> The truly tragic thing, for him and the children, is that you clearly don't see your husband as your family.


I absolutely see him as my family. But I will not lie. We have lots of problems. Tons. And maybe that’s also the reason why I am so hesitant to just give it a go. Cause wgat would I do if (which most likely they will) it should continue in a foreign country without my network here. To have so many fights and being so far away from your family


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

sh987 said:


> I'm having a difficult time understanding why you came here, and I mean this with no disrespect intended. "He knew what he was getting himself into" seems more like the words of somebody who came here looking for people to agree with her and comes across, if I may say so, rather callous towards his feelings. By your own words, you're completely fine with the sacrifices in your marriage being made so long as they are all made by him. For what it's worth, millions of people from familial cultures have immigrated to Canada, and seem to make it work quite nicely here.
> 
> I'm not itching to leave this country, but I would never force my wife to live in a place which she told me offers her no future hope of happiness.


It makes me sad that you read my posts like that. I came here to get some advice. To get many different angles on this matter. 
No secret that obviously my hope and dream is to stay close to the family here. But I know that it can’t be on the expense of our own family. When I say “he knew what he got himself into” I am referring to that he has been visiting Denmark sooo many times before he decided to move in here with me. He wasn’t too fond of it to begin with. Yet,he knew where I stood. That I’d like to stay. Already 6 months later he started complaining. And 1 y later he told me that he didn’t like it here. I felt and st feel as if he never gave it a fair shot. Yet, at the same time I have a hard time believing that he’d ever see this ashis home..whether or not he would geta job of his dreams here or not. He’s not fond of this type of country and life style.

I am an extremely sensitive girl. To an extent where I forget myself and own needs. His happiness is my happiness. My mood fluctuates so much, depending on how his mood is. To give you an example, we might have had a nice evening at some friends place. He states that he enjoyed the evening a whole lot. For me the evening could have been just “okay”, and not more than that, but because I see that he enjoy himself and it’s so important for me that he gets some positive experiences here, I play along and agree to it being a great evening. He’s in a great mood, I’m in a great mood. These situations sort of gives me a hope that he might going to like it here after all. We can have a few good days after that. I get my hopes up for him not again starting a discussion of “let’s leave”..but then boom.Suddenly a fewdays later he ones again express his desire to live with me abs the kids somewhere else. “Anywhere else than here” he even sometimes says. It’s like an emotional roller coaster. I feel that the life we have started here in Denmark is constantly on shaky ground. I don’t know when he next will tell me that he hates it here..but I know it’ll come. It’s very hard to live like this. And truly. My biggest wish and hope is for him to find himself. For him to have success. I pray more for his success than my own as a matter of fact. 
Yea, I’m sure Canada is a great place to live. If that’s where you WANT to live


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

maree said:


> Are there any groups in your country where people from foreign countries get to meet? Maybe a class on your language? Maybe he could meet some people of similar background as him who are experiencing the same culture shock as your husband, maybe that will give him a circle. There are probably plenty of foreign people living in your country who he could befriend who may not have the same cultural perspective as Scandinavians.
> 
> Otherwise, you have a tough decision. If it was me I would look at the kids lives and what is best for them. Write a pros and cons list for each scenario. Staying in Scandinavia they will have close relationships with your relatives, be able to visit husbands relatives much more often, but very well could lead to a divorce and their Dad not being a big part of their life. Moving to Canada may force them to lose their relationships to some degree with your family, but may allow them to keep a relationship with their dad that could blossom and be healthy.
> 
> For me it would be very difficult for me to commit to moving to a country with my 2 children that I have never even been to. It is possible you will be just as miserable as your husband is right now but in Canada. I like another posters recommendation of finding a more neutral place where your husband may fit in more that is still close enough for short travel to your family. There must be some place like that?


He’s been attending a Danish course a few times. Always quit. It’s too hard to learn he finds. I acknowledge that he has adhd abs dyslexia. But I always offered my help. To speak to him in Danish. But he never really seemed interested. Which obviously also makes me sad. The lack of interest and curiosity to learn the language that our children will speak. I have a big interest in learning Greek, despite the fact that we don’t live there. Anyway, to answer your question. He meets a lot of people there. But none that he sees as a friend or anything close to that. He’s very outgoing and speaks to many people, but all the foreign people he is talking to is like singing to his own choir (or whatever this saying is called 🤣) It’s talking to people who are here due to a partner, abs who isn’t fond of Denmark. Say it’s a weird place to live in. Difficult to integrate into. Basically saying the same as him...😔

The option of the kids loosing their father is not likely to happen. He always tells me that he’ll be right where his children is. That’s his priority. So if I won’t move with him out, then (even if we should get divorced) he worukd have to stay here. Which of course saddens me. It should be like that. I want to figure out a solution with him. This whole situation isn’t good for him. Or for me. And in the longrun, neither for the children 😢


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

I don't think you guys are going to make it if both of you can't find middle ground.

I understand your husband "knew" you were attached to your family. He also "knew" he was going to live in a foreign country. The problem is you really can't know how you are going to react and adapt to an "unknown" environment without living in it. Your husband learned the hard way it wasn't easy to find a job and it's not easy to immerse in your culture. He sounds depressed and he has a reason to be. The cold weather is probably making it worse. 

Both of you have to sacrifice something to save your family. 

It's not so bad living in NA. I live in the US and yes, it's different, but it's not bad. Some families like to have a big strong bond like your family. Friends can become family. There are things to do for kids. Things and places are accessible. There are things to do for social people and you can stay home if you are not into doing things. My husband is very social, I'm more like an introvert. You have a big advantage if you can speak English. 

What do you do for fun in your country? How often do you see your parents? What do you do with your mom? 

My culture is very family oriented as well. Are your parents attached to their family as well? 

I'm trying to understand why it's a deal breaker for you to live away from your family. You also need to understand you married a foreigner as well. It seems you both didn't realize it takes work and flexibility to have a bicultural marriage.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Strawberry1984 said:


> No. I don’t think I could do that. But in my heart I don’t see me living without my parents, siblings either.
> My mom is so connected to my oldest son (he’s 2 years and 8 months). She loves him so much!! She calls him her vitamin pill❤ She gets so thrilled from spending time with him. And she’s missing him if 3 days went by without seeing him...
> 
> It’s so tough 😢😢😢


It's not tough at all. You're a married woman with your own immediate family - your husband and children. You are far too attached to your parents. I'm a married woman, I love my Mum, I adore her - but my husband comes first.



Strawberry1984 said:


> Now, yes she’s saying we should maybe try it, but I know my mom VERY well..her biggest wish obviously is that we would stay! It would break her heart if I left.


What about your husbands heart and quality of life. Sorry to be blunt, but your children's father is far more important to them than their grandparents.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Wow. This is so sad to read. It brings back memories of how I was not the center of my ex-wife's life, in a manner very similar to the OP. My ex-wife's primary focus was on her family of origin. I was not important to her...not really. I was only a means to an end for her. 
If you would ask my ex-wife at that time, she would insist it was not true. But her every action and every statement would show how unimportant I was to her. 

OP, I think commenters are criticizing you NOT because they don't "understand" you. I think they understand you better than you understand yourself. Just like you, my ex would prattle on about how important it was for our children to have a relationship with her parents, but really didn't care very much whether they had a good relationship with their own father. In fact, she undermined that relationship with their father by moving the children away from me, half a continent away to be by her family. Because that's really what was important to her. I gave up my job, the career I had built for years, and hundreds of thousand of retirement funds (an all or nothing retirement vestment plan) to move to be part of my children's lives. The situation between you and your husband resonates with me.

Your husband is a broken man because he has no job and no prospects. Unfair as it may be, the reality is that society judges men much more harshly in their ability to provide than it judges women, and his worth as a man is much more tied up in his role as a provider in people's eyes---including, most likely, his own. Despite your saying the words that your "biggest wish and hope is for his success", "more than my own," your actions don't actually back that up. How important is your husband's success to you? Obviously, it's not more important to you than being near to your family.

In the end, if you were forced to make a "Sophie's Choice", and were forced to choose between your husband and your family of origin, what would you pick? So far, it looks to me, and apparently to many posters, that you have already picked your family of origin. I don't think you realize that. My ex didn't realize that, and still doesn't. The concept of putting her spouse first was never anything my ex-wife could get her mind around. That's why I say that I think posters understand you better than you understand yourself. You talk about how much you pray for your husband's success, but it doesn't cost much sacrifice on your part to "pray". The real demonstration of your devotion would be to choose his manhood and self-respect over living by your family.

I'm not very religiously adherent these days, but I did receive religious instruction in my childhood. And even if you disregard any of the supernatural aspects, there were parts that did address some basic aspects about human nature which are true today, thousands of years later, because humans are the same thousands of years later. One quote that was always read at weddings says that "Therefore shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall cleave unto his wife and they shall be one flesh." I interpret that verse about stating the need for the married couple to be the prime relationship--the couple now form a single unit, leaving their parents. Even if you don't believe the Bible, I think that is an important truth to follow for a successful married relationship.


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

@Strawberry1984 I'm not posting to make you sad or hurt your feelings. I'm just not sure why you came here, when you couldn't have been more clear than in your first post, and said that being close to your parents and siblings was more important to you than keeping your husband and providing a better and more secure future for your children.

By all means, you're quite free to continue putting your husband at the bottom of the list; you have that right. See what type of a marriage and man you end up with, however.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Strawberry1984 said:


> He’s been attending a Danish course a few times. Always quit. It’s too hard to learn he finds. I acknowledge that he has adhd abs dyslexia. But I always offered my help. To speak to him in Danish. But he never really seemed interested. Which obviously also makes me sad. The lack of interest and curiosity to learn the language that our children will speak. I have a big interest in learning Greek, despite the fact that we don’t live there. Anyway, to answer your question. He meets a lot of people there. But none that he sees as a friend or anything close to that. He’s very outgoing and speaks to many people, but all the foreign people he is talking to is like singing to his own choir (or whatever this saying is called 🤣) It’s talking to people who are here due to a partner, abs who isn’t fond of Denmark. Say it’s a weird place to live in. Difficult to integrate into. Basically saying the same as him...😔
> 
> The option of the kids loosing their father is not likely to happen. He always tells me that he’ll be right where his children is. That’s his priority. So if I won’t move with him out, then (even if we should get divorced) he worukd have to stay here. Which of course saddens me. It should be like that. I want to figure out a solution with him. This whole situation isn’t good for him. Or for me. And in the longrun, neither for the children 😢


What city are you in?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Strawberry1984 said:


> I absolutely see him as my family. But I will not lie. We have lots of problems. Tons. And maybe that’s also the reason why I am so hesitant to just give it a go. Cause wgat would I do if (which most likely they will) it should continue in a foreign country without my network here. To have so many fights and being so far away from your family


It sounds as if the problems are because he has no work and hates living there. No wonder you are having issues and that he is unhppy. 
I dont think you have in anyway cut the emotional ties to your parents when you married. Maybe its time to do that. Your husband and children are your close family, the others are wider family, your priority should be to your husband and children and they will all thrive in Canada. Its only you who refuses to go.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Strawberry1984 said:


> It makes me sad that you read my posts like that. I came here to get some advice. To get many different angles on this matter.
> No secret that obviously my hope and dream is to stay close to the family here. But I know that it can’t be on the expense of our own family. When I say “he knew what he got himself into” I am referring to that he has been visiting Denmark sooo many times before he decided to move in here with me. He wasn’t too fond of it to begin with. Yet,he knew where I stood. That I’d like to stay. Already 6 months later he started complaining. And 1 y later he told me that he didn’t like it here. I felt and st feel as if he never gave it a fair shot. Yet, at the same time I have a hard time believing that he’d ever see this ashis home..whether or not he would geta job of his dreams here or not. He’s not fond of this type of country and life style.
> 
> I am an extremely sensitive girl. To an extent where I forget myself and own needs. His happiness is my happiness. My mood fluctuates so much, depending on how his mood is. To give you an example, we might have had a nice evening at some friends place. He states that he enjoyed the evening a whole lot. For me the evening could have been just “okay”, and not more than that, but because I see that he enjoy himself and it’s so important for me that he gets some positive experiences here, I play along and agree to it being a great evening. He’s in a great mood, I’m in a great mood. These situations sort of gives me a hope that he might going to like it here after all. We can have a few good days after that. I get my hopes up for him not again starting a discussion of “let’s leave”..but then boom.Suddenly a fewdays later he ones again express his desire to live with me abs the kids somewhere else. “Anywhere else than here” he even sometimes says. It’s like an emotional roller coaster. I feel that the life we have started here in Denmark is constantly on shaky ground. I don’t know when he next will tell me that he hates it here..but I know it’ll come. It’s very hard to live like this. And truly. My biggest wish and hope is for him to find himself. For him to have success. I pray more for his success than my own as a matter of fact.
> Yea, I’m sure Canada is a great place to live. If that’s where you WANT to live


Many many wives have to move to places to be where their husband can get work. Where they can all have a good happy life. I am pretty certian that if you moved there and made a real effort for 2-3 years to settle you would end up loving it. The alternative may end up being that your children have no dad, thats is far far worse than them having no grandparents.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

As someone from Southern Europe who moved to the UK for love, I knew what I was getting into. Do I like living here? Not particularly. But I stuck with it. I don't understand why he's agreed to have children with you if he hated Denmark. No offence, but I've been to Denmark (several times and I had a Danish girlfriend at one point), and it's not really the most exciting country in the world. The people are very closed and the language is a nightmare to learn. That said, I feel for you. It's a horrible situation to be in. I have no advice, but I get the feeling that to you your family is the most important thing. No bad thing. Reminds me of my wife. She adores her family. I don't have a close relationship with my family.


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## marcy* (Feb 27, 2010)

He tried living in you country and isn’t working for him. Why don’t you try living where he wants? You may end up liking it. You both speak English so there will be no problem because of it. It’s hard to learn a new language when you worked so hard to learn another one. It’s hard to star from zero. Been there. My hubby wanted to live in Germany. As much as I love Europe, I just can’t go back and learn a new language now. It took me years to learn English, and I don’t want to go through that again.
So I understand how you husband feels.
Try it.Your family shouldn’t come before your kids and your husband. I lived with my parents until I got married and came here in USA, so I understand how you feel, but you have to make choices in life.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Strawberry1984 said:


> It’s interesting how many of you don’t understand the need (?) fit a married woman to be close to her extended family (siblings, parents, nephews and


Once a person becomes an independent adult staying close to extended family is not a need. It is a want.



Strawberry1984 said:


> That it’s seems like everything is about me. It isn’t. Its not only about my needs. If it was I wouldn’t seek any help or advice.


Yet you seem very unwilling to take the advice to move for the sake of your family.



Strawberry1984 said:


> I’d just keep living the way we do with no conscience. But I do have a conscience. A terrible one actually. I am torn just like I said at the beginning of the posts. I a girl who doesn’t like changes. I am terrified of them. I’m a girl who likes her safety. My husband is the opposite. It takes some guts to relocate on your own at the age of 16 y/o.


I don't think you're torn so much as looking for a magic solution. The reality is that there isn't a magic solution. It sounds like he thought you'd become a wife and mother and develop independence from your family and you thought he would adapt to living in Denmark for the rest of his life. He's didn't adapt and you didn't become more independent.



Strawberry1984 said:


> He doesn’t necessarily need to live in the country as his parents. He’s talking to them on the regular though.


Which is perfectly natural and normal. They are part of his life without having to physically be in proximity. 

In a previous post you mentioned he thought it was good for a woman to be close to her family. I think, in his mind, that meant being in contact regularly, having a good relationship, being able to ask for advice, and so on. I don't think he realized your attachment to your family would be so intense that it would permanently tether you, and him by extension, to their location.



Strawberry1984 said:


> Should my desire to have them next to me be more important than the well-being of my own little family? Absolutely not.


Is that_ really_ the truth? 

You've long been aware that your husband is deeply unhappy and socially isolated in your country, that he wants very much to live almost anywhere else, and that the situation is damaging him mentally and emotionally. Yet you refuse to move.

You know that the longer he is unable to work the further behind his peers he falls. You know that this long stretch of unemployment is hurting his chances of finding a good position anywhere. So, you know that living in Denmark is harming him professionally, as well as personally, and yet you refuse to move.

You know that the way he is now is not a good example for the children of what an adult man should be. You know that the fights and so on aren't a good example of marriage for the children. Yet you refuse to move.

It seems to me that, if he and your family with him was more important, you'd have moved by now or be in the thick of making arrangements to move. Your actions say that, yes, your birth family actually is more important to you.



Strawberry1984 said:


> I absolutely see him as my family. But I will not lie. We have lots of problems. Tons. And maybe that’s also the reason why I am so hesitant to just give it a go. Cause what would I do if (which most likely they will) it should continue in a foreign country without my network here. To have so many fights and being so far away from your family


I'd be willing to bet the vast majority of your problems would be solved by him being able to productively work, have regular social interactions, and be in a more livable space. Miserable people act miserable. They go through periods of trying to make the best of it and just exploding when that fails yet again. They become frustrated, bitter, and resentful. Miserable people aren't a pleasure to live with because they are miserable and that misery just oozes out of them and infects everything in their lives.

What would you do without your network if things don't improve upon moving? You'd handle it like an independent adult, that's what you'd do. It's not like you wouldn't be able to call home to vent and ask for advice. You wouldn't be moving to some Godforsaken hole in the wall where electricity and wi-fi don't exist. You'd be moving to a civilized land where you could video chat for hours a day, if you wished.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> As someone from Southern Europe who moved to the UK for love, I knew what I was getting into. Do I like living here? Not particularly. But I stuck with it. I don't understand why he's agreed to have children with you if he hated Denmark. No offence, but I've been to Denmark (several times and I had a Danish girlfriend at one point), and it's not really the most exciting country in the world. The people are very closed and the language is a nightmare to learn. That said, I feel for you. It's a horrible situation to be in. I have no advice, but I get the feeling that to you your family is the most important thing. No bad thing. Reminds me of my wife. She adores her family. I don't have a close relationship with my family.


Mate, I am living in a foreigner in Denmark. I am being safely ignored.
Danes attachment to their nation is extraordinary and something not appreciated by most on this thread.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

You're married to H. 

He's lived in your country for a good while, per your preferences. 

You should live in a place that's his preference too, for a few years, at least.

It's really that simple. 

Or tell him you could never leave your family, which would be childish btw.

But tell him now either way. Be an adult. 

Or don't. It really is that simple.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Mr The Other said:


> Danes attachment to their nation is extraordinary and something not appreciated by most on this thread.


As I said, I know the Danes... I believe you.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> As I said, I know the Danes... I believe you.


And why is that more important than the Hs preferences?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> And why is that more important than the Hs preferences?


It's not. It was an observation that can help people understand the OP's views.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> It's not. It was an observation that can help people understand the OP's views.


The W should state clearly and quickly whether she will go with her H, ever, or not.

Much better than the eventual slow painful death of the M.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Much better than the eventual slow painful death of the M.


This is where it's heading, I'm afraid.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

You are married to your husband, not your family. It is very selfish of you to want to have it all. Men need to be able to take care of their families to be fulfilled. You have handicapped him in all respects. Why can’t you move? If you are so attached to your family, why get married in the first place. Your husband must come first.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

It looks like the husband is being treated as a sperm donor. Just thank him for his sperm and send him on his way. You have your mommy and daddy and siblings and close-knit, provincial community to support you. And, that is all you want or will ever want.

Perhaps, since your husband met you in Greece, he thought you were sophisticated and mature enough to want to travel and experience life outside your home country. He didn't realize he would have your family sitting in his lap every day. The poor guy must feel as though he is suffocating.

Either become a full-fledged partner and consider his needs or cut him loose.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

In Absentia said:


> It's not. It was an observation that can help people understand the OP's views.


I don't think a single person here lacks understanding of her views. We get it. But her attachment is now at the expense of her husband and her children and that is unacceptable.


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

Hi again everyone, 
First of all I promise to try and answer you individually when I’ll find time (between looking after my kids) but here’s a bit of a reply to all of you.
I completely understand why some say that when you marry you should do what’s best for your own family. That’s correct. But what I have an extremely hard time with is the fact that this means cutting my ties so to speak, with the family I was born in. I don’t find it a neither or. In general. I think it can and should be able to be combined. If that’s what you want. The fact that our marriage is so unstable. That we fight a lot and always have. Is also what makes me think of any relocation with him as a bad idea. We don’t have the “base” for such a thing. I know that a move usually is said to bring a couple much closer together. But I think that in order to relocate, you need to be strong as a couple. You need to be each other’s best friends. Not to fight on the regular.

My family (siblings and parents) is very small, yet very tight-knit family. I would feel terrible for leaving them. And that is something I don’t think I should be ashemed for feeling this was about. I would like to think that it’s only normal that despite marrying you still love your parents to death and they and their presence in your life and later on in your children’s life, is an important thing. Especially as a woman. My husband loves that I am a family person. And he loves to see my family and invite them over for dinner at our place. I think there might be a cultural difference that’s playing a major role in why a lot of you don’t understand why I can’t just “relocate with him and that you should do that for love and to keep your marriage which should be your 1st priority”. In the US I know that it’s super commen not just to move and/or relocate when/due to finding a spouse from another state. It’s also common for many to far away from family when attending universities. Often they’re located in different states, a flight away from your parents house. Everything in the states and NA is huge. Distances between things are often very big. Where I am from it isn’t. Everything is relatively close to everything. People live relatively close to their families.
I also want you to bear in mind that no matter how nice it might be in Canada and that he has friends/used to work there, he IS NOT from there by origin. He has a longing for that country. That I acknowledge. But he/we have no other ties to that place besides that! And for him to uproot his family here, 2 children and a wife because he BELIEVES he can give us a better life there, is not enough for me. I would maybe have felt different about it if he got relocated with from work and already had a contract. That would have been a bit more serious in my eyes. But to have a fairytale dream of that we’ll get a better life there..well...that depends on what you’re looking for. Money or having your kids extended family around. I remember that I once metaphorically explained it to him like this:
It would be all nice and amazing to be living in a bigger house/apartment, but terribly lonely and sad when you realize that it comes of the cost of not being able to have any relatives around. Does it make sense?

I’d like to let you all know that he actually has his own company. He’s is an entrepreneur by heart. He’s been having his own company for now 5 y. Though, it is not a steady business at all. Far from it. Unfortunately. Not something that one day will make us able to buy something. So in that sense it of course it’s satisfying enough for him.
I mostly feel bad for him in regards to that his parents won’t get to be close to their grandchildren like mine does. And that he doesn’t get to enjoy seeing his parents being with our kids on the regular. That’s hard for me to think of and I feel bad for them and him and I feel guilty. But then on the other hand, it was never written in the card, so the say, that he would be living in the same country as his parents. They always say that..he always had a longing to get away.


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

Mr The Other said:


> What city are you in?


Are you also from Denmark? Or did you relocate to here?


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

MJJEAN said:


> I don't think a single person here lacks understanding of her views. We get it. But her attachment is now at the expense of her husband and her children and that is unacceptable.


But I am sorry MJJEAN. But because I married, does that mean that I should just headlessl


MJJEAN said:


> I don't think a single person here lacks understanding of her views. We get it. But her attachment is now at the expense of her husband and her children and that is unacceptable.


But could you please explain me in what way that it is on the expense of my children and husband. Yes. I absolutely understand that my husband isn’t happy here. Some days are worse than others I would say. I acknowledge that he isn’t happy and that a change must be made. Some kind of change at least. But why do you say that it’s also on the expense of our children? My children are enjoying all the attention and love they get from both of their parents as well as of their grandparents and uncle, aunt and nephew and nieces. They don’t lack anything. On the contrary. If we move, they won’t be getting any of this. They’ll have to have a so called “FaceTime-grandma and grandpa”. My husband would be able to outlive his dream of getting a career/being able to work/to be in a country that he like. But then I would suffer. And I would be homesick. Bottom line, a relocation will yes, always be on the expense of someone. But why do I need to be portrayed as selfish for wanting to have some family around for the kids. If we were to move to his home country it might have been a different story, as we at least there have family to the kids.
I would like to hear your opinion on this. And please, also read my general response posted around 10 min ago in here.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

So some basics apparent facts of the situation.

1. You DO value your parents and siblings higher than your husband
2. Your husband has not really made a serious effort to assimilate to your country.
3. You have kids.

So since you place a VERY high priority on the importance of the relationship between parents and child, what about your kids? Do you place a high value on their relationship with their father? What is it going to do to your kids when your husband reaches the lowest depths of and can't bare living in Denmark anymore? Have you thought about this. He ends the marriage and moves to Canada or else where. What happens if your kids later in their teens decide they want to go live with Dad thousands of miles away? Will you also chose your parents and siblings over your own kids? You might say that will never happen but moving away to a foreign land is a very appealing opportunity for teenagers. 

The purpose of this thought process is to have you look at the situation from all possible angles. The possibility is there? 

I would suggest you think about the possibility of telling your husband, he puts in real effort to learn the language, taking a formal course intensely for a minimum of 6 months, practicing with you regularly (nightly) at home, and maybe does some other things to better his employment opportunities. If he does that and is still miserable you will commit to relocating somewhere for a minimum of x years. 

You have alluded to big problems in the relationship. The trouble is you have had this issue of him being unhappy where you live so you don't know how much that is contributing to the issues. Are the issues a result of your placing him in such an inferior place of importance to you. 

Keep in mind his depression is not going to improve without serious effort on both your parts, and a big part of your kids lives will be very negatively affected if you both fail.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

What is it you're looking for with this thread? No one is going to tell you that it is ok to place your family of origin ahead of your husband.

You keep saying that a change has to be made; but, you refuse to consider that you may have to be the one to make that change. Your idea of 'change' is for your husband to quit whining and embrace his lonely, miserable life so you get to be ensconced in the bosom of your beloved family. Have you considered that you may not be fighting so much if it weren't for your entanglement with your family? Do Danes ever cut the apron strings?


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

Blondilocks said:


> It looks like the husband is being treated as a sperm donor. Just thank him for his sperm and send him on his way. You have your mommy and daddy and siblings and close-knit, provincial community to support you. And, that is all you want or will ever want.
> 
> Perhaps, since your husband met you in Greece, he thought you were sophisticated and mature enough to want to travel and experience life outside your home country. He didn't realize he would have your family sitting in his lap every day. The poor guy must feel as though he is suffocating.
> 
> Either become a full-fledged partner and consider his needs or cut him loose.





Blondilocks said:


> It looks like the husband is being treated as a sperm donor. Just thank him for his sperm and send him on his way. You have your mommy and daddy and siblings and close-knit, provincial community to support you. And, that is all you want or will ever want.
> 
> Perhaps, since your husband met you in Greece, he thought you were sophisticated and mature enough to want to travel and experience life outside your home country. He didn't realize he would have your family sitting in his lap every day. The poor guy must feel as though he is suffocating.
> 
> Either become a full-fledged partner and consider his needs or cut him loose.


I think you are Misunderstanding everything completely. My husband knew from the beginning that I wanted to live in my home country. Or in his. I like Greece a lot. Though it’s tough financially. He isn’t really interested in living there. He wants to go to a third place that I told him from day one that I wouldn’t be interested in. That I am too connected to my life here. He still chose me. He still proposed. Still wanted to have children with me. Still wanted to live here. Yes, it’s tough not seeing him thriving here. Absolutely. And if I could I would do everything in my ability to change this. But to move away is the one and only thing that I almost put a veto on. I have always helped him to look for jobs. Helped him applying for jobs. Encouraged him to do different things. I look up things for him. It’s very stressful for me too all of this. He wants to bring me and the kids to another country where none of us has relatives in, because he “likes” that country and think he has a higher chance of making it there. That’s not good enough reason for me. I would have agreed if, let’s say, we could have said to live there for 3 y. Try and save as much as possible, and come back and buy a bigger place. But he has said before that, money or not, he simply doesn’t find it “appealing” to live here..


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

He may be one of those people who never puts down roots. I don’t. After I married, home to me was wherever my husband and child were and not where my parents and large extended family were. I didn’t mind at all leaving the place I grew up and where my family’s roots had been for hundreds of years. But you’re not the same. You’re not going to leave and you need to make that very clear to your husband so he can decide whether to accept living there or not.


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

Here’s a possible solution. Give your H a few months to see if he can find a good job in Canada or Greece. If he does, then you agree to move there with the understanding that your parents come to stay with you several times a year. (My MIL lived on the other side of the US and would stay with us a month at a time a few times a year. We always paid for her flights as it was less expensive to pay for one person than for all 5 of us.) You could also arrange it so that you and the children spend a month or so visiting your family during the summer and go back to Denmark for the December holidays. There are ways for you to still see your family for extended periods of time if you plan ahead.


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

Openminded said:


> He may be one of those people who never puts down roots. I don’t. After I married, home to me was wherever my husband and child were and not where my parents and large extended family were. I didn’t mind at all leaving the place I grew up and where my family’s roots had been for hundreds of years. But you’re not the same. You’re not going to leave and you need to make that very clear to your husband so he can decide whether to accept living there or not.


You are right. He’s a traveler in many ways. He likes not being at the same place for too long. Even while he worked in Montreal, he was relocated to Florida, NY, and London. And he liked it. Miami is also a place that he truly loves and would like to live in with us. As well as NYC. Do you get the picture? He likes the thrill of living in these fast speed places. I like these places too. To VISIT. Don’t see myself living there. I am connected to my family here and I like to live in smaller countries, I think


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

In my opinion...

I think that you and your husband need to have a frank, HONEST discussion about this. Lay all of your cards on the table. 

Your husband knew you had strong ties to your family. He knew that you had a desire to live close to your family, and he knew this BEFORE you were married. It's not as if you kept it a secret and dropped a 'bomb' on him AFTER you were married. But it sure seems like HE did. 

I would ask him WHY he married you in the first place when he CLEARLY knew that you both wanted a different kind of life. I really think you need to find out what was in his head before you start planning for anything else.


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

blahfridge said:


> Here’s a possible solution. Give your H a few months to see if he can find a good job in Canada or Greece. If he does, then you agree to move there with the understanding that your parents come to stay with you several times a year. (My MIL lived on the other side of the US and would stay with us a month at a time a few times a year. We always paid for her flights as it was less expensive to pay for one person than for all 5 of us.) You could also arrange it so that you and the children spend a month or so visiting your family during the summer and go back to Denmark for the December holidays. There are ways for you to still see your family for extended periods of time if you plan ahead.


Absolutely. Makes good sense such a advise. Only issue is that I actually told him (before COVID) that now that I’m going on maternity leave, maybe we should try out Montreal. It could be an idea since I anyway got salary from the state here for almost 1.5 years. Meaning that I wouldn’t have to quit my job to try it out with him there, as I anyway was on maternity leave. I told him to make a clear plan though. How to do it and when. And to go there alone as a start. To see if he could find a job. But he couldn’t leave our son (was pregnant with #2) for so long, he felt. And then COVID happened on top of all of that. So yea, that never became a reality


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Strawberry1984 said:


> But I am sorry MJJEAN. But because I married, does that mean that I should just headlessl
> 
> But could you please explain me in what way that it is on the expense of my children and husband. Yes. I absolutely understand that my husband isn’t happy here. Some days are worse than others I would say. I acknowledge that he isn’t happy and that a change must be made. Some kind of change at least. But why do you say that it’s also on the expense of our children? My children are enjoying all the attention and love they get from both of their parents as well as of their grandparents and uncle, aunt and nephew and nieces. They don’t lack anything. On the contrary. If we move, they won’t be getting any of this. They’ll have to have a so called “FaceTime-grandma and grandpa”. My husband would be able to outlive his dream of getting a career/being able to work/to be in a country that he like. But then I would suffer. And I would be homesick. Bottom line, a relocation will yes, always be on the expense of someone. But why do I need to be portrayed as selfish for wanting to have some family around for the kids. If we were to move to his home country it might have been a different story, as we at least there have family to the kids.
> I would like to hear your opinion on this. And please, also read my general response posted around 10 min ago in here.


I think what you're missing is kids are extremely perceptive and sensitive to their parents demeanor. So your husband being miserable with his life IS going to have a very large and negative affect on them.


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

COVID has upended the many people’s plans. Obviously you would need to postpone any changes until after it is safe to travel and be out and about in the world again. What was your H response to your offer to go to Montreal? Can you revisit that conversation and see how he feels now? If you have offered to move them his griping all the time is just that. He should have jumped to take you up on it. He can’t have everything he wants either. If he doesn’t want to leave your son for that long then he needs to accept his life is there with your family.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Strawberry1984 said:


> You are right. He’s a traveler in many ways. He likes not being at the same place for too long. Even while he worked in Montreal, he was relocated to Florida, NY, and London. And he liked it. Miami is also a place that he truly loves and would like to live in with us. As well as NYC. Do you get the picture? He likes the thrill of living in these fast speed places. I like these places too. To VISIT. Don’t see myself living there. I am connected to my family here and I like to live in smaller countries, I think


Yes, I understand his wanderlust as my husband and I both had it for decades. Our child, on the other hand, always hated moving (and hasn’t in adulthood). But my husband and I greatly enjoyed living different places (all were big cities as he was transferred a lot). Your situation is much different. i don’t think he’ll be happy if he stays and I don’t think you’ll be happy if you leave.


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## marcy* (Feb 27, 2010)

Vega said:


> In my opinion...
> 
> I think that you and your husband need to have a frank, HONEST discussion about this. Lay all of your cards on the table.
> 
> ...


He is from Greece. Being close to family is very normal there, most of families are, and I know that they would rather live in same house with their daughter than with their son, so he knows what it means for a daughter to be that close to their parents. She should have discussed this before marriage. Maybe he was really looking to live there but he learned that he can’t.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Mr The Other said:


> Mate, I am living in a foreigner in Denmark. I am being safely ignored.
> Danes attachment to their nation is extraordinary and something not appreciated by most on this thread.


Thats irrelevant, sometimes people from all countries have to move for many reasons. The OPs problem is that she is far far too attached to her wider family and not atttached enough to her husband and children. We all have to mature and emotionally leave our family of origin when we marry and put our new family first.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

marcy* said:


> He is from Greece. Being close to family is very normal there, most of families are, and I know that they would rather live in same house with their daughter than with their son, so he knows what it means for a daughter to be that close to their parents. She should have discussed this before marriage. Maybe he was really looking to live there but he learned that he can’t.


She DID discuss this with her husband before marriage. She's said that a number of times on this thread.


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## marcy* (Feb 27, 2010)

Vega said:


> She DID discuss this with her husband before marriage. She's said that a number of times on this thread.


Yes but before he lived in her country. Maybe he liked her country when he went there just for a few days, but now that he is living there, he can’t. 
My daughter loved my town in my country when we went there for summer. It’s small town, good for kids, for their safety and elderly, but not for young people. Doesn’t offer much. She wanted to live there, but I know that if she lived there she would see how hard life there was even for a child.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Strawberry1984 said:


> Hi again everyone,
> First of all I promise to try and answer you individually when I’ll find time (between looking after my kids) but here’s a bit of a reply to all of you.
> I completely understand why some say that when you marry you should do what’s best for your own family. That’s correct. But what I have an extremely hard time with is the fact that this means cutting my ties so to speak, with the family I was born in. I don’t find it a neither or. In general. I think it can and should be able to be combined. If that’s what you want. The fact that our marriage is so unstable. That we fight a lot and always have. Is also what makes me think of any relocation with him as a bad idea. We don’t have the “base” for such a thing. I know that a move usually is said to bring a couple much closer together. But I think that in order to relocate, you need to be strong as a couple. You need to be each other’s best friends. Not to fight on the regular.
> 
> ...


We are not all American here by any means, I am from the UK for example and there are others from different countries. Where did anyone say that you must cut off your wider family? No one said that, but that you need to cut right back and as we have said there are so many ways that you can stay in contact now that werent available not that long ago. 
Of course you still love your parents, you always will, but relocating doesn't stop you loving them in anyway, it may actually help you stop leaning on them so much for ALL your emotional needs and mature more. Its not healthy for you to have constant and presumably very frequent contact with your wider family. You need to put all those efforts into your husband and children. Listen to your mum.
We know that Canada isnt his original home but he had spent years there and knows that its a great country of opportunities for you and your children. 
There is no reason for you to have to be 'lonely and sad' if you move away unless you CHOOSE to be lonely and sad. If YOU put the effort into making friends, joining things, taking you children to clubs and activities you will soon make friends. Many people do it all the time and it would do you so much good. With small children is a REALLY good time to do this as you will meet many other mums when they go to nursery and school and sports etc.

However, its clear that you arent going to go and put your own family before your wider family so we are really wasting our time.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Strawberry1984 said:


> Hi again everyone,
> First of all I promise to try and answer you individually when I’ll find time (between looking after my kids) but here’s a bit of a reply to all of you.
> I completely understand why some say that when you marry you should do what’s best for your own family. That’s correct. But what I have an extremely hard time with is the fact that this means cutting my ties so to speak, with the family I was born in. I don’t find it a neither or. In general. I think it can and should be able to be combined. If that’s what you want. The fact that our marriage is so unstable. That we fight a lot and always have. Is also what makes me think of any relocation with him as a bad idea. We don’t have the “base” for such a thing. I know that a move usually is said to bring a couple much closer together. But I think that in order to relocate, you need to be strong as a couple. You need to be each other’s best friends. Not to fight on the regular.
> 
> ...


Then don't cut your family loose.

But put on your big girl panties and tell your H soonest that you'll never leave mommy and daddy. 

You'll be doing him a favor to tell him soonest.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Strawberry1984 said:


> You are right. He’s a traveler in many ways. He likes not being at the same place for too long. Even while he worked in Montreal, he was relocated to Florida, NY, and London. And he liked it. Miami is also a place that he truly loves and would like to live in with us. As well as NYC. Do you get the picture? He likes the thrill of living in these fast speed places. I like these places too. To VISIT. Don’t see myself living there. I am connected to my family here and I like to live in smaller countries, I think


No, dear, you like to live in ONE place.

At least own it.

H should find a place and when financially secure send for his children.

Or do you believe they're only your children?


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

marcy* said:


> Yes but before he lived in her country. Maybe he liked her country when he went there just for a few days, but now that he is living there, he can’t.


Yes, it's possible. But that's not HER fault. That's still on HIM. 

She was very clear about what she wanted WELL BEFORE they got married. He seemed to be in agreement with her about living close to her family, even telling her, "a married woman needs to be close to her family". Now that he's been there a while, he's changing his tune, and expects the OP to change her mind as well. 

The OP mentioned that her husband "likes" Montreal. And NYC. And Florida. While the husband has lived in Canada before, who's to say that he'll still like it there in another year or two, especially if they have a VERY cold winter? 



> My daughter loved my town in my country when we went there for summer. It’s small town, good for kids, for their safety and elderly, but not for young people. Doesn’t offer much. She wanted to live there, but I know that if she lived there she would see how hard life there was even for a child.


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

Vega said:


> She DID discuss this with her husband before marriage. She's said that a number of times on this thread.


Correct


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> No, dear, you like to live in ONE place.
> 
> At least own it.
> 
> ...


First part of your response..fair enough. I am not a traveler (or should I say a “relocater”). I like the feeling of home being ONE place.

Second paragraph is not nice or fair of you to write. Not to mention, completely untrue.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Strawberry1984 said:


> First part of your response..fair enough. I am not a traveler (or should I say a “relocater”). I like the feeling of home being ONE place.
> 
> Second paragraph is not nice or fair of you to write. Not to mention, completely untrue.


It's an honest question that you must think about in an adult manner.

When your H leaves you and becomes financially secure in a different country and sends for his children to come stay with him for an equal amount of years:

will you happily send them to live with their father or will you hire lawyers to prevent the children from living with Dad for a while?


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## marcy* (Feb 27, 2010)

Vega said:


> Yes, it's possible. But that's not HER fault. That's still on HIM.
> 
> She was very clear about what she wanted WELL BEFORE they got married. He seemed to be in agreement with her about living close to her family, even telling her, "a married woman needs to be close to her family". Now that he's been there a while, he's changing his tune, and expects the OP to change her mind as well.
> 
> The OP mentioned that her husband "likes" Montreal. And NYC. And Florida. While the husband has lived in Canada before, who's to say that he'll still like it there in another year or two, especially if they have a VERY cold winter?


He gave it a try, just because she told him and he agreed, that doesn’t mean he has to live there for the rest of his life. They have to live where is best for both of them, not only where is best only for her.


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

marcy* said:


> Yes but before he lived in her country. Maybe he liked her country when he went there just for a few days, but now that he is living there, he can’t.
> My daughter loved my town in my country when we went there for summer. It’s small town, good for kids, for their safety and elderly, but not for young people. Doesn’t offer much. She wanted to live there, but I know that if she lived there she would see how hard life there was even for a child.


Look, I mentioned that to him before he moved to Denmark. Before we had kids. Before we got married. I remember he used to say that he finds it so boring here. It’s a place that kills your ambitions. Yes. Correct. Danes don’t have the same kind of desire of living standards as Americans. I am generalizing here, I know that. But in general, people here are highly educated. It’s a rich country but ppl don’t flash it. Ppl are humble. He tells me he is a highly competitive person. And here he can’t find his circle of ppl to be inspired, to make something big out of his life. Do I explain myself well enough?
Anyway, he knew how Denmark was before moving here. He thought it was a cute country but boring.
He is also a person that goes with the flow. Doesn’t plan. Take things as they come. For the good and the bad. Maybe that’s the issue? He went here, without considering too much.


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> It's an honest question that you must think about in an adult manner.
> 
> When your H leaves you and becomes financially secure in a different country and sends for his children to come stay with him for an equal amount of years:
> 
> will you happily send them to live with their father or will you hire lawyers to prevent the children from living with Dad for a while?


Look, this is not really an option. None of us would want our kids to suffer the absence of neither their mother or fathers presence in their lives. It’s something we spoke of already.
It’s also highly unrealistic in my opinion at least. At this point they are only 2.8 y/o (the oldest one). But let’s pretend that he is older..like, 7.. For him to be away from his mom and live with his dad in a foreign country, would not be realistic at such a young age. Nor would such a thing be recommend by any psychologist. A child should have a steady base, and visits are fine, but not to uproot a little child, and transfer him or her to a different country to live with their other parent...and then switch back. Such a thing would ONLY be a selfish thing for the parents and NOT the child’s needs. Besides...are they then supposed to change schools every few years??

My short and honest response to this question is a no. I would not be interested in that. Nor would my husband


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

[ room apartme


Strawberry1984 said:


> Look, this is not really an option. None of us would want our kids to suffer the absence of neither their mother or fathers presence in their lives. It’s something we spoke of already.
> It’s also highly unrealistic in my opinion at least. At this point they are only 2.8 y/o (the oldest one). But let’s pretend that he is older..like, 7.. For him to be away from his mom and live with his dad in a foreign country, would not be realistic at such a young age. Nor would such a thing be recommend by any psychologist. A child should have a steady base, and visits are fine, but not to uproot a little child, and transfer him or her to a different country to live with their other parent...and then switch back. Such a thing would ONLY be a selfish thing for the parents and NOT the child’s needs. Besides...are they then supposed to change schools every few years??
> 
> My short and honest response to this question is a no. I would not be interested in that. Nor would my husband


So you're saying it's unrealistic to think a 7 year old could or even should live with a single father? Or likely at that point a remarried father?

Many, many single Dads would disagree.


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> [ room apartme
> 
> 
> So you're saying it's unrealistic to think a 7 year old could or even should live with a single father? Or likely at that point a remarried father?
> ...


No. I said that’s it’s not in the child’s interest to live with his mom for x amount of years and THEN to RELOCATE to a DIFFERENT country to live with his dad for another x amount of years.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

I think like others have said you need to have a real come to Jesus so to speak talk with your husband. Tell him his unhappiness is really bothering you. He has two choices, make the best of things and put in the effort to learn Danish and find a career, or leave, move somewhere he can be happy and you will have to figure out some kind of custody arrangement for the kids. 

I think those are the only two real options that exist that don't end with your husband stuck in a life of real sadness and despair.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

marcy* said:


> *He gave it a try,* just because she told him and he agreed, that doesn’t mean he has to live there for the rest of his life. They have to live where is best for both of them, not only where is best only for her.


Did they _agree_ to "try"? No. They didn't. In fact, there was nothing in this entire thread that even suggested that they were going to move to Denmark to "try" it. They talked about this well ahead of their move. At that time, he was ALL IN. 

Meanwhile, 6 months after their move, he started complaining about how cold it was. I mean, seriously? He'd already been there about a dozen times BEFORE this, and 6 months after moving there, THAT'S when he figures out it's not a tropical haven? Heck, I've never been to Scandinavia, but even _I_ know it's not exactly known for it's long humid summers, or mild winters! 

The point is, that HE was the one who dragged this whole issue off into a ditch. His solution seems to be, "Let's move from Denmark (cold) to Montreal (also cold)...or Toronto (just as cold), even though I'm unemployed!" 

The OP isn't so much opposed to moving. Ideally, she'd like to live near her parents. However, she's expressed that she would be willing to relocate to someplace else near extended family...either her extended family or her husband's extended family, _as long as he has a job, and they could afford to visit their other relatives during the year_. But to simply uproot the two children and move without any real security (either financial and/or without a family support system while at least LOOKING for work) is unacceptable. 

It seems to me that the OP is willing to make some sacrifices for her marriage, but wants to be _practical_ about things. Let the husband go to Montreal and secure work and living quarters FIRST. That is _practical._ He could give himself a time limit to find employment/housing. If he's unsuccessful, go back to Denmark. Or Greece. Heck, with some training, he could even get a decent job as a Translator since he speaks 2 languages. 

OP, what kind of work does your husband do?


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Strawberry1984 said:


> No. I said that’s it’s not in the child’s interest to live with his mom for x amount of years and THEN to RELOCATE to a DIFFERENT country to live with his dad for another x amount of years.


Keep in mind, you might not have an option. If your Husband leaves Denmark he has rights to custody. A quick search on Danish law regarding custody leads me to believe if your husband moves to say Miami your kids will be spending a lot of time there whether you like it or not. Probably won't be for years at a time but could be summers and holidays and school breaks. You show me a psychologist that says it's not beneficial to spend a lot of time with both parents I'll bring 2-3 to court who say it is. 

The way you want things to be mean nothing when reality says different. 

I still think your husband should be putting in much more effort to assimilate to Denmark before he gives up though. But lets face it sounds like he likes action and a bigger life, you mentioned NYC. The population of NYC by itself is 3 times that of Denmark.


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

happyhusband0005 said:


> I think like others have said you need to have a real come to Jesus so to speak talk with your husband. Tell him his unhappiness is really bothering you. He has two choices, make the best of things and put in the effort to learn Danish and find a career, or leave, move somewhere he can be happy and you will have to figure out some kind of custody arrangement for the kids.
> 
> I think those are the only two real options that exist that don't end with your husband stuck in a life of real sadness and despair.


Thanks happyhusband005. I’ve had this conversation with him many times. I’ve told him that as much as he might think that it’s fun, great, simple and easy for me to be here in MY HOME COUNTRY, it actually isn’t. It isn’t because it’s hard for him. And that I feel so guilty for it. That I at the same time get upset at him for not trying hard enough to make it here. For not putting too much of an effort in writing applications. I know he has adhd and has dyslexia. But still. But then again, I’ve seen how hard it actually is to search and find something relevant for him.
But he always had a sort of indifferent attitude to Denmark. Didn’t take the language classes too seriously. And when I tell him that I would like for us to speak in Danish, he tells me, that he doesn’t want to practice abs speak Danish while our kids are awake, as it doesn’t give him the time to speak to them in his own language (Greek). And he’s worried they won’t learn it. He always makes fun of the Danish language. He would never want to move away/relocate on his own, away from our kids. He said that this is what it is... this is where we live. With a bitter tone.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Strawberry1984 said:


> Absolutely. Makes good sense such a advise. Only issue is that I actually told him (before COVID) that now that I’m going on maternity leave, maybe we should try out Montreal. It could be an idea since I anyway got salary from the state here for almost 1.5 years. Meaning that I wouldn’t have to quit my job to try it out with him there, as I anyway was on maternity leave. I told him to make a clear plan though. How to do it and when. And to go there alone as a start. To see if he could find a job. But he couldn’t leave our son (was pregnant with #2) for so long, he felt. And then COVID happened on top of all of that. So yea, that never became a reality





Vega said:


> Yes, it's possible. But that's not HER fault. That's still on HIM.
> 
> She was very clear about what she wanted WELL BEFORE they got married. He seemed to be in agreement with her about living close to her family, even telling her, "a married woman needs to be close to her family". Now that he's been there a while, he's changing his tune, and expects the OP to change her mind as well.
> 
> The OP mentioned that her husband "likes" Montreal. And NYC. And Florida. While the husband has lived in Canada before, who's to say that he'll still like it there in another year or two, especially if they have a VERY cold winter?


He lived there for years and even learnt to speak British there so I am sure he has been though several winters there.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> He lived there for years and even learnt to speak British there so I am sure he has been though several winters there.


Yup. So why complain about the cold in Denmark when it's almost as cold in Montreal?


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

You have a very wrong idea of what it is to live away from family.

In the US it's not unusual to move around because of a job. We have done this 7 times so far.

Moving away doesn't mean you cut ties with your family. You don't see them often but you can be in touch with them all the time. I'm in touch with my family daily. 

Family bonds are important in NA as well. Now I live close to my husband's family and we see each other weekly. Other families might not see each other that often but that's ok. The love and connection is still there.

Distances are big over here but it's not like we don't live in community. We have neighbors, we have churches, groups, school related groups. I didn't have family close by for years but I met other moms with young kids and we bonded. We visited each other, planned play dates, we went out. I found support from other Hispanic moms. This is a melting pot so I found people from all over the world. I never felt isolated. If anything, I think in the US it's very easy to find people from other countries. Every time I moved I have found at least one person from my home country. Right now I am part of a small group of ladies from my country. We get together, if it weren't for covid19 we would be having a big new year's Eve celebration. We all have families so it's a family reunion to us. 

I understand it's hard to picture yourself living away from home. My culture is the same as yours. I went to college in the same city, I lived at home while going to college. Some of my elementary school friends were my classmates in college. In my culture you leave home when you get married, not before, and if someone wants to move out before getting married, it's out of the norm. Here in the US, my husband left home when he was 19.

I don't advise you to move without any job prospects. If your husband finds a job in Canada while living in Denmark that's different. Would you be homesick? Yes, you will be homesick. It's just depends how you build your life in a different environment. Your husband hasn't adapted to your culture, and it seems pretty hard to understand how Danish people behave, it might not be his fault after all. I think people in NA are very friendly and always open to help you if you need it. 

Like I said before, if you both don't find common ground, you probably won't make it as a married couple. 

At least give it a try.


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

Vega said:


> Yup. So why complain about the cold in Denmark when it's almost as cold in Montreal?


Let me correct you.. Denmark is FAR from being as cold as Montreal (thank god!) lol. Montreal can, after my understanding get to -4 F. Whereas here the lowest is around 27 F. Huge difference. But husband always talks about that at least there the winter feels different. There’s snow. You get to go skiing. He used to do that with his friend in Montreal when he lived there. He it’s just grey and a depressive weather he thinks. I don’t disagree. I hate winters. But to me it’s childish to miss skiing. To still think of the type of life he had with friends back when he was single, with no family. Btw, it’s not that he’s saying that he’s like to go back to skiing with friends, like back in the days, and leave us behind. He want to go to these places with me and the children.


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

Vega said:


> Did they _agree_ to "try"? No. They didn't. In fact, there was nothing in this entire thread that even suggested that they were going to move to Denmark to "try" it. They talked about this well ahead of their move. At that time, he was ALL IN.
> 
> Meanwhile, 6 months after their move, he started complaining about how cold it was. I mean, seriously? He'd already been there about a dozen times BEFORE this, and 6 months after moving there, THAT'S when he figures out it's not a tropical haven? Heck, I've never been to Scandinavia, but even _I_ know it's not exactly known for it's long humid summers, or mild winters!
> 
> ...


Vega, it absolutely seems like you have understood what my problem is. Had to laugh at your funny comment about Denmark not being a tropical paradise😅
Right before moving to Denmark, he just started his own business. Had moved in to an apartment (time limited) which was SUPER expensive. He tried to make it with his business. I had just finished my studies so came to visit him and stay the summer with him in Greece. We stayed at that apartment. I thought it was way too expensive and also told that to him from the very beginning. Anyway, by time I got there he had already stayed there 2 months. In total he was there for 3 or 4 months I think, before some good friends of his (incl myself also) again told him that it was too expensive. And he basically didn’t have an income. We fast took the decision to move to Denmark (obv we had spoken of this before!) to my place. It was in the middle of the city and SUPER cheap!!! It costs a third of what he was paying. I was paying the majority of everything at that time (my own decision) to keep his spendings down. I paid rent, electricity, heat, internet, phones etc. 
This allowed him to solely focus on his business and to pay off his loan. I am aware of that we can’t stay in such a small place as we are now (it’s still the same place as back then) but I just feel that he should be grateful to his life here in Denmark, that due to that, he has been able to pay most off his loan back. 
I have always had his back. And always will. But I get frustrated and sad when I, every third weeks or so, feel that my life the way I know it,is being “threatened” by him telling me that he hates it here.


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

happyhusband0005 said:


> Keep in mind, you might not have an option. If your Husband leaves Denmark he has rights to custody. A quick search on Danish law regarding custody leads me to believe if your husband moves to say Miami your kids will be spending a lot of time there whether you like it or not. Probably won't be for years at a time but could be summers and holidays and school breaks. You show me a psychologist that says it's not beneficial to spend a lot of time with both parents I'll bring 2-3 to court who say it is.
> 
> The way you want things to be mean nothing when reality says different.
> 
> I still think your husband should be putting in much more effort to assimilate to Denmark before he gives up though. But lets face it sounds like he likes action and a bigger life, you mentioned NYC. The population of NYC by itself is 3 times that of Denmark.


He always used to tell me that he never would take his children away from their mother. Their mom (me) is such an important part of their life, and to take them away from her would not be in the kids interest. I know his opinion could change over time if we were to get divorced.
It’s absolutely beneficial to spend time with both parents. Beneficial and important. But it’s not in the child’s interest to move country (to move away from everything he or she knows, from their home!) because one of the parents decide to move away. Going on vacation, to visit the father, that’s fine. But not to relocate.


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

happyhusband0005 said:


> Keep in mind, you might not have an option. If your Husband leaves Denmark he has rights to custody. A quick search on Danish law regarding custody leads me to believe if your husband moves to say Miami your kids will be spending a lot of time there whether you like it or not. Probably won't be for years at a time but could be summers and holidays and school breaks. You show me a psychologist that says it's not beneficial to spend a lot of time with both parents I'll bring 2-3 to court who say it is.
> 
> The way you want things to be mean nothing when reality says different.
> 
> I still think your husband should be putting in much more effort to assimilate to Denmark before he gives up though. But lets face it sounds like he likes action and a bigger life, you mentioned NYC. The population of NYC by itself is 3 times that of Denmark.


But you’re right. I wish that he would put in much more effort to try and assimilate.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Strawberry1984 said:


> But I am sorry MJJEAN. But because I married, does that mean that I should just headlessl
> 
> But could you please explain me in what way that it is on the expense of my children and husband. Yes. I absolutely understand that my husband isn’t happy here. Some days are worse than others I would say. I acknowledge that he isn’t happy and that a change must be made. Some kind of change at least. But why do you say that it’s also on the expense of our children? My children are enjoying all the attention and love they get from both of their parents as well as of their grandparents and uncle, aunt and nephew and nieces. They don’t lack anything. On the contrary. If we move, they won’t be getting any of this. They’ll have to have a so called “FaceTime-grandma and grandpa”. My husband would be able to outlive his dream of getting a career/being able to work/to be in a country that he like. But then I would suffer. And I would be homesick. Bottom line, a relocation will yes, always be on the expense of someone. But why do I need to be portrayed as selfish for wanting to have some family around for the kids. If we were to move to his home country it might have been a different story, as we at least there have family to the kids.
> I would like to hear your opinion on this. And please, also read my general response posted around 10 min ago in here.


So, you understand how unhappy he is and you claim in the same breath you have no idea how being stuck in Denmark is at his expense???

How it is at the children's expense is obvious. They have instincts and are very perceptive beings. They are aware of household tension, they hear more than we adults think, and they grow believing what they lived with is normal and eventually repeat the pattern. Children live what they learn. What is your turbulent marriage teaching them about marriage? That yelling and screaming and crying and general misery is normal for married couples. What example of adult manhood is your non-functional unhappy husband modeling for them? That men don't work or provide or have dreams or ambitions and that having a wife and children means the death of self.

We've all said the same thing in 60 different ways and you keep repeating over and over how you aren't wrong and how you aren't moving and how your husband isn't going to leave you and the kids. 

Ok. Then there is nothing more we can offer here. Either he'll eventually decide to get a divorce, get 50% custody, and move where he is comfortable, he'll decide to just walk away from all of it and you can raise the kids as a single mother with your precious family, or he'll just be a ghost that exists in your life silently and not so silently resenting you until the very sight of you makes him sick. I honestly don't think it maters to you provided you can stay highly enmeshed with your family.

And, no, there is nothing wrong with being a family person or dearly loving your parents and siblings your whole life. Being unable to live without them in close proximity, however, is a bit much.

Good luck.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

So he hates the cold of Denmark but wants to live in Toronto?

As one who grew up in the desert i don't see much difference...it's all freaking cold to me!

Is it possible for your husband to get a job where he travels? Maybe that would be the boost he needs.


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

I have read each and every one of your posts. And I would like to genuinely thank all of you for taking the time to read my post, and for your replies. Thanks for those who could understand me. And hank you to those who gave me a very new way of looking at this. Who challenged me in my perspective

Thank you all 🙏🏼

Look, everything is not just black or white. I am a girl/a woman, who yes, is super attached to my parents and want to be near them. But a small little part in me also think of how it could be to move abroad. To have more money than what I can provide us with now. Husband doesn’t really have an income. Despite having his own company. But it doesn’t allow him to give himself a salary yet. Of course I sometimes think how different, financially, our life could be if we were to move. And also maybe socially. I don’t have many friends here and thieve I have, we don’t see that often. Things are not halo spontaneously here, like in many other countries (which is also something my husband can’t stand about Denmark..the far ahead planning) 
I will let you all know, though, that I do not speak to him about these thoughts. I keep them to myself so I won’t sit one day and tell him that I too am imagining how different our lives could be, yet, the next day, tell him that I don’t want to go anywhere. That would not be fair of me, knowing how he feels about moving to a different country. 

But I’d also like to state that we have a great help in my mom being around. She helps a lot with the kids. She’s always available and I myself is meeting up with her, some periods, almost daily, just for a walk with the kids or something else. Bear in mind that I am on maternity leave, therefore I am able to do this. My husband is usually busy with work (his own) at home. He also spends quite many hours, many times a week, on going to the gym. During these hours I like to be with my mom.
He is a bit of a gym fanatic. Always been. I used to tell him, before having kids, that he can’t go 5-6 times a week when you have a family. He still does that though. Him and his overall mood is dependent on going to the gym and to have a good session over there! (Yes, I’m annoyed by it) Which is also why it’s super tough/even tougher fir him now that the gyms are closed during lockdown.
Sometimes I think how it would be to live far away from my family, in a different country, having a husband who works morning till (probably?) evening, and then he also needs to fit hours in his beloved and highly needed time at the gym. What does that leave me?? A life of being away from my family parents and siblings, living a life in a foreign country with a husband who’s gone most of the day, every day.

I know that he shares these concerns too. He knows that my “wellbeing” would be on him. That I would be fully dependent on him. I am far from as outgoing as he is. He says that unfortunately he doesn’t think that I’d be able to handle a relocation. 

At the SAME TIME, I have a feeling that he himself might be slightly hesitant towards moving/relocating, for real (which COULD, not saying it is, but could, also be the reason why he seems like he doesn’t care about anything anymore..) but I think a tiny part of him has realized how much he likes his freedom here. Abs that THIS is something he will NEVER have again if we move away. Abs I think that could maybe make him a bit depressed too..cause where does that then leave him..? Here there’s no mortgage. He’s not a slave of some job and doesn’t not have a boss over his head. He’s his own boss. He basically wakes up and starts working whenever he wants to..he doesn’t need to be at work at a certain hour like other ppl do. And most importantly, he has tons of free time. He doesn’t usually work full days. He works 4-5 h. Maximum. Then he goes to the gym. Or spend time with me and the kids. Also, this kind of living is allowing him to enjoy something that can’t be bought for money; to spend time with our kids. To see them during the day. Never to miss out on anything basically, since he’s always around. Most dads are working full time and only gets to see their kids before dinner and for bedtime. In that sense, he’s super lucky and he knows it. And he knows he’ll never be getting this again somewhere else. If we leave, he will have to be a provider


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

MJJEAN said:


> So, you understand how unhappy he is and you claim in the same breath you have no idea how being stuck in Denmark is at his expense???
> 
> How it is at the children's expense is obvious. They have instincts and are very perceptive beings. They are aware of household tension, they hear more than we adults think, and they grow believing what they lived with is normal and eventually repeat the pattern. Children live what they learn. What is your turbulent marriage teaching them about marriage? That yelling and screaming and crying and general misery is normal for married couples. What example of adult manhood is your non-functional unhappy husband modeling for them? That men don't work or provide or have dreams or ambitions and that having a wife and children means the death of self.
> 
> ...


MJJEAN, despite that I don’t agree on a lot of the things you have written me on these posts, then you absolutely do have a point! Despite saying them a bit harshly at times But I’d like you to know that I am taking your points seriously and your responses are forcing me to try and look at the problem from a different angle. I appreciate that. Thank you. I wrote another posts a few minutes ago, where I explain more about my fears of what it would mean to me to live abroad


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Strawberry1984 said:


> I would do everything in my ability to change this. But to move away is the one and only thing that I almost put a veto on.


So no, you won't do anything in your ability to change this situation. You will do whatever it takes to make him do what you want, which is to stay in Denmark.

You have said several times that he was so miserable and found Denmark boring but still proposed, still had kids, etc. Why are you placing all the blame on him? You knew he wasn't happy and chose too get married and knocked up. You're also saying you're so miserable, and that you're planning on having more kids. You're at fault too.

This thread is 6 pages of going in circles. It's clearly not going to be resolved.

For the record, my grandmother was from Denmark. She moved to Canada for an opportunity, met my grandfather and stayed. It became her home and when she died and wanted her body sent home, it was going from Toronto to Newfoundland - not Denmark. My mom moved to America, married my dad, and stayed. My aunt moved to America, married her husband, stayed _and_ gave up her Canadian citizenship. My wife's parents are French-Canadian and Swedish-American and they moved all over the damn place. My wife would love to move home and at this point, if we had the opportunity and ability to move I'd do it. Would I love it? No, but I love her and she's more important than whatever my coordinates are.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

bobert said:


> So no, you won't do anything in your ability to change this situation. You will do whatever it takes to make him do what you want, which is to stay in Denmark.


How is she "making" him stay in Denmark? If anything, she's been suggesting that he go to Montreal alone in order to find work and secure employment/housing FIRST. She will miss her family, but she's willing to TRY. She's even willing to go to Greece to be near _his_ family. 



> You have said several times that he was so miserable and found Denmark boring but still proposed, still had kids, etc. Why are you placing all the blame on him? You knew he wasn't happy and chose too get married and knocked up. You're also saying you're so miserable, and that you're planning on having more kids. You're at fault too.


Because the lion's share of the blame_ is_ with him. Let's not forget that even though he wasn't that crazy about Denmark, he did tell her that "a married woman needs to be near her mother/family". That's pretty much a green light to go forward. If he was protesting, he wasn't protesting all that much. 

It's the reason why I asked the OP, several pages back, to ask her husband WHY he proposed, knowing all of this ahead of time. 

This thread is 6 pages of going in circles. It's clearly not going to be resolved.



> For the record, my grandmother was from Denmark. She moved to Canada for an opportunity, met my grandfather and stayed. It became her home and when she died and wanted her body sent home, it was going from Toronto to Newfoundland - not Denmark. My mom moved to America, married my dad, and stayed. My aunt moved to America, married her husband, stayed _and_ gave up her Canadian citizenship. My wife's parents are French-Canadian and Swedish-American and they moved all over the damn place. My wife would love to move home and at this point, if we had the opportunity and ability to move I'd do it. Would I love it? *No, but I love her and she's more important than whatever my coordinates are.*


And IF you moved, would you start complaining after being there for 6 months that you wanted to leave? 

It's very possible that the OP's husband moved because he loved her, too. But after being there, and actually living there, he realized that he didn't like it that much after all. Some people can figure this stuff out ahead of time, some apparently can't. 

There are some key points that a couple should discuss before marriage. Children, where to live and income. If one person wants kids and the other doesn't, obviously DON'T GET MARRIED. If one person wants to live in the desert and the other wants to live in Alaska, DON'T GET MARRIED, if you can't find a way to compromise. If you want your income levels to be over $100K, DON'T MARRY SOMEONE WHOSE LIFE AMBITION IS TO BE A WAITER AT DENNY'S! This is just_ common sense._ 

The OP's husband wasn't as forthright as he should have been.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Have you considered that maybe he wants to see his family?

I’m sorry, but most of your posts just keep saying that you want it your way! You need to compromise!

it looks like this is all about what you intend to get. Maybe your husband knows you won’t consider his feelings.

you want to live where you prefer or do you prefer to stay married? I think that is the bottom line question.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Strawberry1984 said:


> He always used to tell me that he never would take his children away from their mother. Their mom (me) is such an important part of their life, and to take them away from her would not be in the kids interest. I know his opinion could change over time if we were to get divorced.
> It’s absolutely beneficial to spend time with both parents. Beneficial and important. But it’s not in the child’s interest to move country (to move away from everything he or she knows, from their home!) because one of the parents decide to move away. Going on vacation, to visit the father, that’s fine. But not to relocate.


Children relocate all the time. A man I know was taken to another country to live when he was seven for 5 years due to his fathers job. Loved it so much that when he was 18 he went and studied there and stayed. Marrried and had a family there. Children are far more adaptable to this sort of thing that many adults, especially if they are young. So yes it is in their interests, especially when its to a country with far more opportunities. It may not be what YOU want, but don't use the children as an excuse.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Your family can come to visit. You have to start being open to changing the living arrangements. If you don’t the kids may end up living without one parent on a regular basis.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Strawberry1984 said:


> He always used to tell me that he never would take his children away from their mother. Their mom (me) is such an important part of their life, and to take them away from her would not be in the kids interest. I know his opinion could change over time if we were to get divorced.
> It’s absolutely beneficial to spend time with both parents. Beneficial and important. But it’s not in the child’s interest to move country (to move away from everything he or she knows, from their home!) because one of the parents decide to move away. Going on vacation, to visit the father, that’s fine. But not to relocate.


You're still missing my main point. You might not have a choice. If he is depressed and he develops the mentality that my wife cares more about her parents and siblings than me, and nothing changes that then he starts to get bitter and angry. Then its lets go to court and see what arrangement the court thinks is fair. So you kids main residence may very well remain Denmark, but they may be spending 4-5 months in total somewhere else with their dad. One could make the argument that the cultural exposure and education that brings with it is very beneficial to the kids. So though it would be highly unlikely for a court to give primary custody to your husband you should accept the real possibility that your kids may well end up living transcontinental lives, which wouldn't be a bad thing for any kid IMO.


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

bobert said:


> miserable and found Denmark boring but still proposed, still had kids, etc. Why are you placing all the blame on him? You knew he wasn't happy and chose too get married and knocked up. You're also saying you're so miserable, and that you're planning on having more kids. You're at fault too.


First of all, I am not placing all the blame on him. But I have never threatened him to come and live with me here. He knew that I wanted to live her to begin with. That was not a secret. And if you go back in a post I wrote 7 hours ago, you’ll see the reason why he didn’t hesitate to come with me to Denmark. It was for financial reason we and he took that choice. Which I absolutely think was the best choice he ever made. It has helped him tremendously financially.


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

Vega said:


> It's the reason why I asked the OP, several pages back, to ask her husband WHY he proposed, knowing all of this ahead of time.


Thanks for your post, Vega. To answer your question; 
He proposed because he wanted me, he said. Because he wanted to share his life with me. I think that that part might have changed now, since we have so many problems and arguments all-the-time. But that’s a different story. 
What I think is important to know about my husband is, that he is super impulsive. I’m not saying that the proposal was impulsive. But he is impulsive in the manner of that he’s not a planner. He takes it day by day. Doesn’t think too far ahead. Take things as they come. Etc. I am the opposite. I worry about everything. I imagine worst case scenario, always.
My point here is, that I think he came here because that’s what it took for us to be together + for the financial reason which I wrote a post about/or maybe it was a reply I wrote to someone. You will be able to see it if you scroll back. 
Therefore my belief is also that he was interested in coming here to begin with. Shortly in to staying here, he (once again..) realized that he didn’t like it.
Anyway, he take things as they come. He is a dreamer, for the good and for the bad. I am more of a realist. He can stand and cook dinner and then all of a sudden state “why don’t we move away?” Same could happen when we are out having a good time as a family, and then he suddenly states “let’s move away”. These sudden comments are really hard for me and leads us to fights, as I feel like our life is so inconsistent. Do we live here or will he always stand with one foot out of Denmark..? It’s emotionally hard for me. Do you understand what I mean?😔
I’ll give you an example. Just searched some old messages.
He went to Montreal to fix some practical things when I was pregnant with our oldest one. That’s 2.8 y ago. He then wrote me he gave his CV to someone over there. I was in Denmark and pregnant while he went there. 
He claimed that I was okay with him trying to find a job in Montreal while visiting.
Here’s a copy of my response to him back in 2017. 
“We did NOT discuss it several times. First of all to discuss is to sit and go through things together to look at possibilities, at pros and cons TOGETHER! And after a while, come to a conclusion. What happened with us was that I saw how much it effected you not being able to find a job here, so I therefore TOLD you the evening before you travelled to Montreal, that IF you wanted to try out Montreal, to work there, it should be while I have my maternity leave. 
But this is being said out of frustration and as a last solution from my side, because you can’t seem to find a job here. But now I feel stupid for even saying that to a man who has been trying this little to find a job here! You sat and wrote job applications for 2 weeks, and then gave up, and told me that it’s too hard to find a job here! Not okay.”

Yes, I know my post is 6 pages long. But if it would have been that easy solved, and just needed one or two peoples suggestion in what to do to solve my problem, then I wouldn’t be here. I am trying to give a clear look into why this is hard for me. A look into what is going on in my head.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Strawberry1984 said:


> First of all, I am not placing all the blame on him. But I have never threatened him to come and live with me here. He knew that I wanted to live her to begin with. That was not a secret. And if you go back in a post I wrote 7 hours ago, you’ll see the reason why he didn’t hesitate to come with me to Denmark. It was for financial reason we and he took that choice. Which I absolutely think was the best choice he ever made. It has helped him tremendously financially.


If it has helped you tremendously financially, how come he cant get a job and you are all living in a tiny flat.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I think the husband has to grow up and suck it up... tough luck. He agreed to move there, had kids and now he doesn't like it. Well, too late.


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> If it has helped you tremendously financially, how come he cant get a job and you are all living in a tiny flat.


No I didn’t say it helped ME. I said that it has helped him. He just opened his own business when we moved. By moving in with me, and coming here to Denmark he ended up not having a rent to pay (I took care of that) and all other housing bills (electricity, heat, water, tv, internet, phone subscriptions) 
He is contributing today. But not in regards to our everyday bills, like rent, electricity) but he WANT to contribute. Sometimes I don’t “allow” him, as i rather want him to focus on his business and to put money in there as well as him paying off his loans.
When you ask why we still live in a tiny flat, then I can only say that that’s because it’s so cheap. It’s a scoop! We are what’s considered “old tenants” in the building. All new ones are paying triple our rent, for the same size, just slightly renovated. My husbands own business has not allowed him to take out a salary yet. And even when he’ll start to do so, it won’t be steady or big enough for us to be able to get a bank loan for a mortgage.
But moving abroad with no income on his hand is not something you just do! It costs to relocate! To find a new place. To move all our things. To pay a much higher rent than what we do now. Living costs.
Not to mention, he doesn’t have a job waiting for him abroad. Neither do I.


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> I think the husband has to grow up and suck it up... tough luck. He agreed to move there, had kids and now he doesn't like it. Well, too late.


 That’s also how I feel like at times when I am mad at him for bringing up this subject. When you decide to have a family, life is not anymore about “where else could we live?””It’s not exciting here. It’s boring. No vibe. Etc.” It’s immature to look at life like this when you’re a father of 2. Life isn’t about finding a more exciting place to live in.

But then at times the guilt also comes up in me
The fact that it’s frustrating that he can’t find a job and his own company doesn’t generate money to give him an income, I completely understand. That’s hard for him. It’s hard for us both. And it can’t go on like this. I get that. Which is also why I seek advice. But I do feel that we a lot of the time live with a resent of one another. I’m resenting him for putting me in a situation where I basically can’t live in the same country as my family, because he doesn’t like it here. He resent me for not wanting to move out. Despite that he always tell me that he understands me and that he doesn’t think I might even be good at living abroad...then I guess he resents me for not leaving him any choice, but to live here with me in a country he doesn’t like


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Strawberry1984 said:


> That’s also how I feel like at times when I am mad at him for bringing up this subject. When you decide to have a family, life is not anymore about “where else could we live?””It’s not exciting here. It’s boring. No vibe. Etc.” It’s immature to look at life like this when you’re a father of 2. Life isn’t about finding a more exciting place to live in.
> 
> But then at times the guilt also comes up in me
> The fact that it’s frustrating that he can’t find a job and his own company doesn’t generate money to give him an income, I completely understand. That’s hard for him. It’s hard for us both. And it can’t go on like this. I get that. Which is also why I seek advice. But I do feel that we a lot of the time live with a resent of one another. I’m resenting him for putting me in a situation where I basically can’t live in the same country as my family, because he doesn’t like it here. He resent me for not wanting to move out. Despite that he always tell me that he understands me and that he doesn’t think I might even be good at living abroad...then I guess he resents me for not leaving him any choice, but to live here with me in a country he doesn’t like


He has a choice, but unfortunately that would involve divorcing you. I don't think it's reasonable to uproot you just because he is too lazy to even learn the language! I know Danish is not easy, but come on! I left my own country, it was a joint decision, and I would never ever blame my wife for that. Yes, I have made sacrifices, so what? It's hardly a big problem. He can go back to Greece whenever he likes (well, when Covid is over)... does he miss Canada? He can fly there and live there for a couple of months... he is not behaving in a mature way. I understand he is not happy, but he's made choices and nobody twisted his arm...


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Strawberry1984 said:


> No I didn’t say it helped ME. I said that it has helped him. He just opened his own business when we moved. By moving in with me, and coming here to Denmark he ended up not having a rent to pay (I took care of that) and all other housing bills (electricity, heat, water, tv, internet, phone subscriptions)
> He is contributing today. But not in regards to our everyday bills, like rent, electricity) but he WANT to contribute. Sometimes I don’t “allow” him, as i rather want him to focus on his business and to put money in there as well as him paying off his loans.
> When you ask why we still live in a tiny flat, then I can only say that that’s because it’s so cheap. It’s a scoop! We are what’s considered “old tenants” in the building. All new ones are paying triple our rent, for the same size, just slightly renovated. My husbands own business has not allowed him to take out a salary yet. And even when he’ll start to do so, it won’t be steady or big enough for us to be able to get a bank loan for a mortgage.
> But moving abroad with no income on his hand is not something you just do! It costs to relocate! To find a new place. To move all our things. To pay a much higher rent than what we do now. Living costs.
> Not to mention, he doesn’t have a job waiting for him abroad. Neither do I.


He could probably get a job if you said you would go. Yes moving is hard work, we are far older than you and have moved 3 times in less than 5 years, not to another country but to different parts of my country and each time we had to sell our home and buy another, far far easier if you are renting like you are.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> He has a choice, but unfortunately that would involve divorcing you. I don't think it's reasonable to uproot you just because he is too lazy to even learn the language! I know Danish is not easy, but come on! I left my own country, it was a joint decision, and I would never ever blame my wife for that. Yes, I have made sacrifices, so what? It's hardly a big problem. He can go back to Greece whenever he likes (well, when Covid is over)... does he miss Canada? He can fly there and live there for a couple of months... he is not behaving in a mature way. I understand he is not happy, but he's made choices and nobody twisted his arm...


The OP also has choices but she is choosing her mum and sister over her husband every time. She has never emotionally grown up and left home.


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> He has a choice, but unfortunately that would involve divorcing you. I don't think it's reasonable to uproot you just because he is too lazy to even learn the language! I know Danish is not easy, but come on! I left my own country, it was a joint decision, and I would never ever blame my wife for that. Yes, I have made sacrifices, so what? It's hardly a big problem. He can go back to Greece whenever he likes (well, when Covid is over)... does he miss Canada? He can fly there and live there for a couple of months... he is not behaving in a mature way. I understand he is not happy, but he's made choices and nobody twisted his arm...


Absentia, you think very much alike the way that I initially have been thinking (and still to some degree) think of this matter.
I know he has learning disabilities, dyslexia and adhd, but at least make an honest effort to learn the language for a start. I have offered my help so many times. That’s a start. I know that he won’t be getting a high up a position at a Danish speaking company, cause it takes decades to have a Danish to use in a business manner/at a serious job. That I am aware of. But at least to learn the spoken language here would make him feel less like an alien. Leas like an outsider.
The fact that we live in Denmark, which honestly isn’t “that bad”, it’s supposed to be the happiest place in the world. A little joke, but it’s actually true. That’s what’s said about this country. Good living standards. Socialistic. Good safety net. Low corruption etc. 
Denmark is really great, thought the weather sucks and people aren’t as spontaneous as in other countries, then it’s a good living for families. And a good educational systems. 
And it’s super close to his home in Greece. Which we visit 3 times a year normally. And it’s relatively cheap to get there from here. If we go to NA we won’t have the money to visit neither his or my family often. Far from often. Unfortunately. His parents also used to come and visit us here just for a few days (beforeCOVID). The distance and low flight prices have allowed them to do so. They can’t do that if we go abroad. And my family absolutely can’t. They don’t have the same finances as his family does. 

It’s so frustrating.
I just want us both to be happy. Genuinely happy. And not just to compromise and let the other one have their will


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Strawberry1984 said:


> The fact that we live in Denmark, which honestly isn’t “that bad”, *it’s supposed to be the happiest place in the world.*


This does give me a chuckle. Even a native Dane (yourself) has few friends and don't see them very often, people are introverted and not spontaneous. Y'all need to start buying NoDoz by the case. Or, get some anti-depressants.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> The OP also has choices but she is choosing her mum and sister over her husband every time. She has never emotionally grown up and left home.


His parents and family won't be able to visit him in Canada.


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> His parents and family won't be able to visit him in Canada.


His parents could visit him in Canada if we were to move there, but it obviously wouldn’t be as simple or cheap to go there, as for them to come to Denmark. When they visit us here and vice versa it’s a relatively short flight and not that expensive. We don’t travel in time zones either. My family’s financial situation, on the other hand, would not really allow them to go visit me if we were to live there:-(


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> The OP also has choices but she is choosing her mum and sister over her husband every time. She has never emotionally grown up and left home.


it’s not really fair to say that. My husband wants to relocate to somewhere else. Canada. Or even to the states. Because he BELIEVES it’s much easier for him to find a job there. It’s not granted that he’ll be able to find a job. He wants me to leave everyone I know, financial security (yes, I don’t earn A LOT, but at least I have a job within my profession) to go to somewhere else, because he THINK that he can make a better living somewhere else. Do you get my point? And dilemma? Of course I want to do what’s good for all 4 of us (him, me and our two children). But does uprooting us all, to somewhere unknown, to an unknown future, with no real plan actually, really a good idea..?!


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

Strawberry1984 said:


> it’s not really fair to say that. My husband wants to relocate to somewhere else. Canada. Or even to the states. Because he BELIEVES it’s much easier for him to find a job there. It’s not granted that he’ll be able to find a job. He wants me to leave everyone I know, financial security (yes, I don’t earn A LOT, but at least I have a job within my profession) to go to somewhere else, because he THINK that he can make a better living somewhere else. Do you get my point? And dilemma? Of course I want to do what’s good for all 4 of us (him, me and our two children). But does uprooting us all, to somewhere unknown, to an unknown future, with no real plan actually, really a good idea..?!


No it is not. There's a lot of kneejerk reactions that you are being selfish and denying your H his dreams by wanting to stay near your family. Yet your H doesn't even have a concrete plan, a job or any place for all of you to live. And he doesn't want to leave your son for even a few months to see if he can make any of that happen. You need to distance yourself from his unhappiness, it really is his problem until he comes up with a workable plan.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> His parents and family won't be able to visit him in Canada.


WHy not?


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

blahfridge said:


> No it is not. There's a lot of kneejerk reactions that you are being selfish and denying your H his dreams by wanting to stay near your family. Yet your H doesn't even have a concrete plan, a job or any place for all of you to live. And he doesn't want to leave your son for even a few months to see if he can make any of that happen. You need to distance yourself from his unhappiness, it really is his problem until he comes up with a workable plan.


Yes. That’s exactly my point. It’s easy for all of others to just tell me to follow him, not to deny him his happiness and not be “selfish” (which I really don’t consider myself as) because I want to live in the same country as my family, when reality is, just like you say, that he doesn’t have a plan. Doesn’t have a job abroad waiting for him. All he has at this point are two things; 
#1.: 
a past experience (8 y ago where he DID have a good job in N.A.) and a hope/dream that he once again can make it there/or at least that life will be much easier there, than here in regards to finding a job/getting a career/friends wise etc.
And the second thing that he “has” is the fact that he “doesn’t like life here. Anywhere else is better”.
Honestly those reasons are not solid enough for me. He doesn’t have a plan, as you also say. He doesn’t have a vision. He acts out of a desire to get away from here. But you can’t do that without knowing how and set up a solid plan, when there’s kids involved too.

And as I also mentioned before.Our marriage isn’t stable. It’s not strong enough for me to move away with him. And that has nothing to do with him not making it here. We always had arguments and fights. We are in many ways very different and don’t see eye to eye on a lot of things. But that can be a different post But my point here is, that yes, when ppl call me selfish for not leaving to another country with him, the reason don’t only lay in the fact that I want to live in the same country as my family (though it plays a BIG role) but it’s ALSO due to that I am afraid how it’ll be to leave them, and to live with him when our marriage is far from being solid. We don’t speak nicely to one another. Don’t behave loving to one another etc.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Strawberry1984 said:


> it’s not really fair to say that. My husband wants to relocate to somewhere else. Canada. Or even to the states. Because he BELIEVES it’s much easier for him to find a job there. It’s not granted that he’ll be able to find a job. He wants me to leave everyone I know, financial security (yes, I don’t earn A LOT, but at least I have a job within my profession) to go to somewhere else, because he THINK that he can make a better living somewhere else. Do you get my point? And dilemma? Of course I want to do what’s good for all 4 of us (him, me and our two children). But does uprooting us all, to somewhere unknown, to an unknown future, with no real plan actually, really a good idea..?!


He has worked there before and lived there so he knows about the job/living situation. Also some of us here have said its a great country. Get out of the rut you are in, there is a big wide world out there and sometimes we have to take risks. Loads of people emigrate every day.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Strawberry1984 said:


> His parents could visit him in Canada if we were to move there, but it obviously wouldn’t be as simple or cheap to go there, as for them to come to Denmark. When they visit us here and vice versa it’s a relatively short flight and not that expensive. We don’t travel in time zones either. My family’s financial situation, on the other hand, would not really allow them to go visit me if we were to live there:-(


If you had 2 incomes you could pay for her to come over to visit, and his family could come less often but for longer periods of time.


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## marcy* (Feb 27, 2010)

@Strawberry1984 It looks like your husband likes the big city’s lifestyle. Where do you live in Danmark? I missed this part. What about moving to a bigger city like Copenhagen?


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> He has worked there before and lived there so he knows about the job/living situation. Also some of us here have said its a great country. Get out of the rut you are in, there is a big wide world out there and sometimes we have to take risks. Loads of people emigrate every day.


Yes. He has worked there before. But he also knows that it’s not granted that he will have the same success again. He knows that he will have to work hard to make it. 
I know canada is a great country, I liked it when I once visited it with him. But for a country to be great, and for you to WANT to LIVE in that country, are two very different things. I am a mother of two very small children. I like to live where I do. Is it exciting? Not really. Is the weather “wow”? Absolutely not. But this is my home. This is where my family lives. If only it was because he was keen on going back to Greece and told me he could make it there and that he missed his family, I would have had a bigger understanding. And I would also have understood why ppl find me kind of selfish for not trying to live in his country with him. But reality is that he likes North America. And he wants to go there. Either to Montreal (where he has lots of friends and connections) or to Toronto or Vancouver or Miami or, or, or. He believe he can make it anywhere else but here. That he can make it in any English speaking country. 
I think he’s a dreamer on the other hand.He wants to take his family to NA where no job is awaiting him. And he doesn’t have any family.


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

marcy* said:


> @Strawberry1984 It looks like your husband likes the big city’s lifestyle. Where do you live in Danmark? I missed this part. What about moving to a bigger city like Copenhagen?


We live in Copenhagen In the heart of Cph actually. It’s a great area we live in


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

You keep talking about "your family" and none of the times do you mean YOUR family..... you mean your parents' family.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Strawberry1984 said:


> Are you also from Denmark? Or did you relocate to here?


Relocated, and now happily married to a Danish lady.
Where are you based? I do not need an exact location, Købenavn area, another city, or udkantsdanmark?


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Strawberry1984 said:


> We live in Copenhagen In the heart of Cph actually. It’s a great area we live in


Sorry!
Good. That should make it far easier. It can seem prudent to mix in with the locals, but that can be tough in Denmark. What is his business? Any interests?


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Strawberry1984 said:


> Absentia, you think very much alike the way that I initially have been thinking (and still to some degree) think of this matter.
> I know he has learning disabilities, dyslexia and adhd, but at least make an honest effort to learn the language for a start. I have offered my help so many times. That’s a start. I know that he won’t be getting a high up a position at a Danish speaking company, cause it takes decades to have a Danish to use in a business manner/at a serious job. That I am aware of. But at least to learn the spoken language here would make him feel less like an alien. Leas like an outsider.
> The fact that we live in Denmark, which honestly isn’t “that bad”, it’s supposed to be the happiest place in the world. A little joke, but it’s actually true. That’s what’s said about this country. Good living standards. Socialistic. Good safety net. Low corruption etc.
> Denmark is really great, thought the weather sucks and people aren’t as spontaneous as in other countries, then it’s a good living for families. And a good educational systems.
> ...


I suspect your fear is you move and nothing changes. He might have been lucky, thought he was a genius who could succeed anywhere.


Blondilocks said:


> This does give me a chuckle. Even a native Dane (yourself) has few friends and don't see them very often, people are introverted and not spontaneous. Y'all need to start buying NoDoz by the case. Or, get some anti-depressants.


They have few friends, but keep them for live. That friends just come and go seems rather shallow to Danes. It does mean there is a deep commitment to the ones they have.
And, København is a great place to live (I should know).


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Strawberry1984 said:


> Yes. That’s exactly my point. It’s easy for all of others to just tell me to follow him, not to deny him his happiness and not be “selfish” (which I really don’t consider myself as) because I want to live in the same country as my family, when reality is, just like you say, that he doesn’t have a plan. Doesn’t have a job abroad waiting for him. All he has at this point are two things;
> #1.:
> a past experience (8 y ago where he DID have a good job in N.A.) and a hope/dream that he once again can make it there/or at least that life will be much easier there, than here in regards to finding a job/getting a career/friends wise etc.
> And the second thing that he “has” is the fact that he “doesn’t like life here. Anywhere else is better”.
> ...


This post holds the answer dear lady.

Don't continue to paint over these now newly mentioned marriage problems where you're inferring him to just in fact be a bad husband with the brush it's him not doing well in your country that is the problem.

Simply admit the marriage has deeper issues that really warrant a divorce.

Get it over with, divorce, so the both of you can start healing and both grow in ways to have a happier life.

Or are these now revealed problems being added, now that the focus is better shifted away from discussion directions not putting you in a better light?

I ask this kindly yet straight forwardly only because you seem to get defensive when comments lean towards supporting your husband.


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> If you had 2 incomes you could pay for her to come over to visit, and his family could come less often but for longer periods of time.





marcy* said:


> @Strawberry1984 It looks like your husband likes the big city’s lifestyle. Where do you live in Danmark? I missed this part. What about moving to a bigger city like Copenhagen?


And btw, correct. He does like the big city life. I am also like that. Maybe I became a bit less now after having small children. We both like the city life. None of us would be happy living in a quiet suburb or far out on the country. We like the vibe of a city life. We and especially me, cherish having lots of supermarkets abd other shops right next to our


Mr The Other said:


> Sorry!
> Good. That should make it far easier. It can seem prudent to mix in with the locals, but that can be tough in Denmark. What is his business? Any interests?


May I ask you where you are from of origin? And also, how do you find it here? Do you recognize my husbands feelings? How many years have you lived here? And do you also live in Copenhagen? Did you find job hunt hard? Sorry for asking all these questions but I am very much interesting in your take on living here.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

What would a compromise look like?


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

Strawberry1984 said:


> No I didn’t say it helped ME. I said that it has helped him. He just opened his own business when we moved. By moving in with me, and coming here to Denmark he ended up not having a rent to pay (I took care of that) and all other housing bills (electricity, heat, water, tv, internet, phone subscriptions)


OK, so, to be honest, moving to Denmark did not help him financially. Moving in with someone to share housing costs did. That could occur in Canada, Greece, US, Britain....anywhere.

In fact, maybe it hurt him financially. If he were to move in with you in another country where he can speak the language and interact better and still run his business, would it be more successful than in Denmark? If so, then moving to Denmark actually HURT his business, due to loss of a better opportunity elsewhere. Even for online business, personal interactions and networking is important for success.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Strawberry1984 said:


> And btw, correct. He does like the big city life. I am also like that. Maybe I became a bit less now after having small children. We both like the city life. None of us would be happy living in a quiet suburb or far out on the country. We like the vibe of a city life. We and especially me, cherish having lots of supermarkets abd other shops right next to our
> 
> May I ask you where you are from of origin? And also, how do you find it here? Do you recognize my husbands feelings? How many years have you lived here? And do you also live in Copenhagen? Did you find job hunt hard? Sorry for asking all these questions but I am very much interesting in your take on living here.


I moved over from the UK in 2007, and am now back for the third time. I have been unhappily married in CPH K and second time round am very appily married.
Købenavn K is a great place, though it is not the same in lockdown. It is much easier now than thirteen years ago, the food and drink is much better! But, we were not locked down then. You have a small flat, typically women can unload their daily fustrations onto their men, but right now, he has nowhere to unload too and plenty of his own.
I was lucky, in that I moved over for a job. I was also lucky making friends and was still very lonely. It is very tough, Danish people have a friend ring, and have to drop a friend to make room for you, so will rarely do that. It is time to make it easy and make ex-pat friends.
Job hunting is als hard, as the network is vital. Again, the close social rings are also professional rings. He will have to start at the bottom. Or help out at Gentofte rugby or Copenhagen Theatre Circle, posh ex-pats with good contacts. What is his professional field?
I lived twice in the USA in that time, and it was professionally and socially far easier (I was a good looking, sporty, professional and British, so top of the social heap).
Language: horrible to learn, but necessary. I found it hard while having to learn how to do everything and working. He really has nothing better to do.


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

Mr The Other said:


> I moved over from the UK in 2007, and am now back for the third time. I have been unhappily married in CPH K and second time round am very appily married.
> Købenavn K is a great place, though it is not the same in lockdown. It is much easier now than thirteen years ago, the food and drink is much better! But, we were not locked down then. You have a small flat, typically women can unload their daily fustrations onto their men, but right now, he has nowhere to unload too and plenty of his own.
> I was lucky, in that I moved over for a job. I was also lucky making friends and was still very lonely. It is very tough, Danish people have a friend ring, and have to drop a friend to make room for you, so will rarely do that. It is time to make it easy and make ex-pat friends.
> Job hunting is als hard, as the network is vital. Again, the close social rings are also professional rings. He will have to start at the bottom. Or help out at Gentofte rugby or Copenhagen Theatre Circle, posh ex-pats with good contacts. What is his professional field?
> ...


Thank you for your reply. So you are originally from the UK? And have been living in Denmark a few rounds, starting back in 2007? 
Yea, I think it might have been fair easier adaptingonce you have a job. Were you transferred from a job in theUK to Denmark? Or did you manage to find it while livin here?


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

Strawberry1984 said:


> Thank you for your reply. So you are originally from the UK? And have been living in Denmark a few rounds, starting back in 2007?
> Yea, I think it might have been fair easier adaptingonce you have a job. Were you transferred from a job in theUK to Denmark? Or did you manage to find it while livin here?


Sorry, pressed “post reply” too fast.
I absolutely agree with you on the friend circle thing. That is something that bothers me too about living here! And I’m a native! Which is also why I wrote in my first post, that friends are not what’s keeping me here. I have 2 good friends here, I’ve known them since childhood. My theory is also, that once you’ve reached a certain age, and have children, it’s far more difficult to start up ACTUAL friendships. Most ppl here just want to go home and spend time with their children when they’re done at work. Weekends are dedicated to family time. Whereas in a lot of other countries, I’d assume that ppl are more spontaneous and will go for a beer after hours. Or am
I wrong?
Anyway, husband is a super social guy. He speaks to everyone and ppl like him. Yet, he says it’s not “his ppl” the ones living here.
You asked about his interests: 
He loooves the gym. Weightlifting. Not only his hobby but also his interest. He is here with a bachelor’s degree from Greece. And his area of studies are much different than his work experience, as well as his wear his own business is. He likes business. He’s a distributor and trader.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

There is one thing you can do for him to help him during the dreary winter months - light therapy for seasonal affective disorder. Check out the various types of lights and, if necessary, have him see a doctor for recommendations. It won't solve any problems; but, it may help him be less grumpy and depressed.

I understand the Danes brought down their suicide rate by increasing their use of anti-depressants. Maybe, they would help your husband.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> There is one thing you can do for him to help him during the dreary winter months - light therapy for seasonal affective disorder. Check out the various types of lights and, if necessary, have him see a doctor for recommendations. It won't solve any problems; but, it may help him be less grumpy and depressed.
> 
> I understand the Danes brought down their suicide rate by increasing their use of anti-depressants. Maybe, they would help your husband.


Plus take vit d.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

We've heard your dilemma, now what do you propose doing to fix your problem?

You keep going in circles but obviously you are afraid of change and nothing is going to change unless you do something different.

What are you going to do?


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

I noticed you didn’t respond to my question - what would a compromise look like?

I don’t think you want to bend to make the marriage work - you seem to just want it your way. If that is the case then divorce him so you can always have it your way.

Your marriage won’t last if you don’t start finding ways to meet him in the middle. You seem to play a motherly role for him instead of an equal partner.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

You and your husband have developed a dynamic where it is YOU vs HIM. Your desires vs his misery. The harder you resist, the more miserable he will feel and the more he will resist. You fight because you no longer feel like you have each other's backs. It is no way to live with the person who is supposed have your back against all threats. Now, you feel like your greatest threats are each other. You need your dynamic to return to being a TEAM united against the PROBLEM, not divided against each other. Your threat isn't each other, it's really his unanticipated difficulty being a foreigner in Denmark.

Whatever agreement you had when he originally moved to Denmark to be with you has failed. Neither of you should be held to it now. The introduction of kids changes things, first of all. Also, he has turned out to have a much harder time learning the language than he expected. He may be unwilling to accept your help because he's ashamed of having you see how much he's struggling. He has turned out to have a much harder time finding employment than he expected. So you are stuck in a tiny apartment where he feels trapped. He feels like he's failed, and so he's locked on to solutions that could replicate previous successes he has experienced. He hasn't made his own friends, so he feels isolated and without support, especially when you aren't being supportive either.

You need to brainstorm *together* to come up with a new ideas and develop a new arrangement. Throw a dozen new ideas on the table, without judging any of them. Do research and evaluate the pros and cons of each one neutrally. So far all you have is your one idea - stay put and knowingly continue his misery. And so far all he has is a vague idea - move to Canada or the US and rip you away from your culture and parents. There have to be more options out there to at least consider. I can think of a bunch already.

You could move in with your parents and save money while he grows his business.
He could try to find a job outside Denmark that lets him telework and not have to move.
He could seek out a community of ex-pats to make friends and job network contacts from.
You could move together to a more English-speaking area of Europe that isn't as far from your family as Canada.
He could move to Canada for a few months alone ahead of you, find a job and a home, then you could switch back and forth as a family and live in both countries.
He could look for a job that may not be in his field, but takes advantage of his knowledge of other languages.

Canada is awesome. So is Copenhagen. But your marriage will eventually fail in either place as long as you treat each other as the opponent instead of the teammate.


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> You and your husband have developed a dynamic where it is YOU vs HIM. Your desires vs his misery. The harder you resist, the more miserable he will feel and the more he will resist. You fight because you no longer feel like you have each other's backs. It is no way to live with the person who is supposed have your back against all threats. Now, you feel like your greatest threats are each other. You need your dynamic to return to being a TEAM united against the PROBLEM, not divided against each other. Your threat isn't each other, it's really his unanticipated difficulty being a foreigner in Denmark.
> 
> Whatever agreement you had when he originally moved to Denmark to be with you has failed. Neither of you should be held to it now. The introduction of kids changes things, first of all. Also, he has turned out to have a much harder time learning the language than he expected. He may be unwilling to accept your help because he's ashamed of having you see how much he's struggling. He has turned out to have a much harder time finding employment than he expected. So you are stuck in a tiny apartment where he feels trapped. He feels like he's failed, and so he's locked on to solutions that could replicate previous successes he has experienced. He hasn't made his own friends, so he feels isolated and without support, especially when you aren't being supportive either.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much. Ouch..you really gave me a whole lot to think about. I am kind of stuck in my way of seeing things..I guess. Cause you’re right, I would like to have it “my way”, which means him being happy in my country, rather than being brought to a foreign country - no matter how amazing Canada or (the states fir that matter) are. You have challenged me in my way of seeing things and I will take what you wrote into consideration - I need to absorb it first. I don’t think I will or can make up my mind right here and right now - as I’m SUPER afraid, worried and basically not ready, to make such a big decision right here and now, but I will give it some serious thought. 
Happy new year to all of you. I’ll respond the rest of you guys tomorrow or the following days


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## 21stcenturyfox (Nov 29, 2020)

My husband and I have been married over 25 years and experienced something like this early on in our marriage. He had wanderlust like your husband, I'm close to my family and wanted to stay near them just like you. And we did end up very near them - we ended up moving into the house right next door. Our solution was for him to get a job that let him travel while I stayed home. Until he started having health issues several years ago he had a job that took him away from home probably 300 or more days per year. He traveled throughout the US, he traveled all over the world. Sometimes he would be in another country for months. Even right up to Covid he still did a lot of US travel that allowed him to fly home for long weekends. And he loved it. He would always get very restless if he didn't have a job lined up for more than a few weeks at a time. Depending on your husband's skill set, this might be a solution you could consider. My husband is a IT efficiency expert who works as an independent consultant. He gets contracted out to companies that have him come in and determine the best way to improve their company's computer systems. He makes a lot of money, loves his job, and the boys and I are close to my family full time and close to his family as well so when he's home he can visit his parents easily. Was it a perfect solution? No. I've always known that traveling so much alone meant he could cheat and I would never have known it. But at least I was never lonely like some women I know who travel with their husbands and then get stuck sitting in hotel rooms alone for days on end. And when he got sent on a short term job to a place I wanted to see, our families were right there to take the boys so I could travel with him.
It works for us. Our marriage is falling apart for very different reasons that brought me here (my husband has just come out as bisexual after 26 years of marriage). Maybe it's something that the two of you could consider. And thanks to Covid restricting international travel you'd have time to really plan for it before you actually started implementing it. I will say that honestly I think right now your husband should suck it up and stop complaining considering we are in a freaking pandemic so it's not like you could move abroad right now anyway.


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

Update: 

Hi everyone.
So, I gave relocating a lot of thought. I understand that yes, we can not keep living small as we do now. My husbands well-being IS of course of importance to our family as a whole. The fact that he needs a job and is having a hard time finding one and finding himself here in Denmark is something that I need to acknowledge.
We had a talk. I told him that i am willing to do almost whatever it takes in order for us to “survive” as a family.
He then tells me that he actually wouldn’t necessarily go back to Montreal. Not only because of the tough winter weather. But also because he doesn’t speak freanch, and that decreases his chances tremendously in a job hunt. He remember that it was a huge obstacle last time he lives there.
He then talks about going to Ontario. Or Vancouver. Or Toronto. He’s looking into costs of living vs. salary. Hmmm...honestly, I don’t know how to feel about this anymore.
Yes. I did say that I would do whatever it takes for him (abs therefore us) to thrive. 
But I also told him, that it’s a HUGE thing for me to leave my own country. But I could do it/would have to do it, but would only go somewhere where he at least had a big network. Not interested in us figuring out which OTHER city in Canada we could possibly relocate to. It’s too much for me!
We looked at economy. And figured out that if we were to stay in Denmark, then we had to leave Copenhagen and go to the suburbs. My husband is completely against that idea. We are both city people, but he finds it to be an absolute no from his side to live outside of Copenhagen. He thinks Copenhagen is already super quiet and quite boring as it is..so to go to the suburbs “just kill me, will you” he says. Btw, I’d like to emphasize that suburbs would mean around 45-50 min by car outside Copenhagen. It’s not THAT far.
What bothers me is, that he knows that we in Canada, no matter which city we’d go to, also would have to live in the suburbs cause we can’t afford living anywhere near downtown.


Oh god, I’m so confused. I truly don’t feel like leaving my own country. But if that’s what it takes, then I’ll have to do it. But I would be doing it for him. Not for myself. Or for my kids. We have and could continue to have a great life here in Denmark


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

I feel like this whole “where should we live - living in your country makes me numb” is making me start to resent him. His approach to relocating sounds to me super childish. He for example want to have the ability to go skiing in the winters -in Canada you do these things. He wants to live in a place where he says ppls memtality is more compatible with his own - yet, the cities he’s now mentioning in Canada, are all places he haven’t even visited! He wants to speak to
a great uncle living in one of those cities to hear which one is more attractive when having kids. But I’m like, what does he know?! He’s not our age. He might think one thing, while we would see it differently. My husband wants him to guide him in terms of where we from should look for housing and jobs... I don’t know. I find this whole thing so wrongly approached. Is it just me? I mean, if ONLY we were going to a SPECIFIC country/city that he used to live in, and are completely in love with, and would have a great network in..then that would be one thing. But to relocate to a complete unknown city and country..no connections, no network, no family, no nothing! Seems to me SO unappealing!!


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Strawberry1984 said:


> We have and could continue to have a great life here in Denmark


*You* have a great life in Denmark. What aren't you understanding about this?


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## 21stcenturyfox (Nov 29, 2020)

Strawberry1984 said:


> I feel like this whole “where should we live - living in your country makes me numb” is making me start to resent him. His approach to relocating sounds to me super childish. He for example want to have the ability to go skiing in the winters -in Canada you do these things. He wants to live in a place where he says ppls memtality is more compatible with his own - yet, the cities he’s now mentioning in Canada, are all places he haven’t even visited! He wants to speak to
> a great uncle living in one of those cities to hear which one is more attractive when having kids. But I’m like, what does he know?! He’s not our age. He might think one thing, while we would see it differently. My husband wants him to guide him in terms of where we from should look for housing and jobs... I don’t know. I find this whole thing so wrongly approached. Is it just me? I mean, if ONLY we were going to a SPECIFIC country/city that he used to live in, and are completely in love with, and would have a great network in..then that would be one thing. But to relocate to a complete unknown city and country..no connections, no network, no family, no nothing! Seems to me SO unappealing!!


So have you even discussed the possibility of him getting a job that would allow him to travel while you and the kids stayed where you are? I mean honestly it seems the closest to a working compromise that I can think of.


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

Blondilocks said:


> *You* have a great life in Denmark. What aren't you understanding about this?


Not sure I understand your comment. I know that life here is good. But he is the one who doesn’t see it. At least not the same way that I does. He feels numb here. Feels unhappy the majority of time. Unsatisfied. Copenhagen is “bearable” for him, but if we were to leave Copenhagen to find a bigger place to stay (we don’t have any savings, so it’s super limited wgat we will be able to get, IF we will be able to find anythin/get a bank loan) it’ll have to be far outside Copenhagen. He tells me that he would be okay with living in Denmark, as long as we are staying in Copenhagen. But we can’t afford anything around Copenhagen. Only far outside...


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

21stcenturyfox said:


> So have you even discussed the possibility of him getting a job that would allow him to travel while you and the kids stayed where you are? I mean honestly it seems the closest to a working compromise that I can think of.


Honestly, he should be happy at this point if he even finds a job here. English speaking positions aren’t what’s most of here - despite the fact that Denmark is super international. It’s very hard finding a job, if 1. you don’t speak Danish, and 2. you don’t have a relevant degree (there are no “getting in from the back door” here..everything is very much by the book. He has neither.

Anyway, to find a job where you can travel is not of his interest. He wants to stay close to our children. To be with them and to live with them/us


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Not sure why you are so confused. He's thinking like an adult about pros and cons of different areas/cities in Canada to think about settling. Weighing advantages of different areas. Seems smart to me.


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

Livvie said:


> Not sure why you are so confused. He's thinking like an adult about pros and cons of different areas/cities in Canada to think about settling. Weighing advantages of different areas. Seems smart to me.


His approach might seem fine if we both had a dream of Canada, but just weren’t sure about which city to settle down in.
But the situation is that I am fairly happy in Denmark. I mean, I’m sure there are greater countries out there..just as well as you have ‘worse’ countries out there.. But Denmark is a great country. It’s safe. It’s socialistic. There’s a great safety net. My family lives here. It’s not big - that can have it’s pros and cons. I’m personally NOT into big countries. Great education system. No university fees/tuitions. On the contrary actually- students gets paid to study here. This means that we wouldn’t have to save up for our children’s education. Anyway....he doesn’t like it here. Hes attracted to North America. He believes he’s can much easier find a job there. He doesn’t want to “work like a horse” in Denmark, in order for us to be able to live here, and find a bigger place, when anyway this country is not on his wish list, so to say. We have no money in our pocket, I only have my savings, and that’s it, so to go and relocate seems, to me, completely insane.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Strawberry1984 said:


> His approach might seem fine if we both had a dream of Canada, but just weren’t sure about which city to settle down in.
> But the situation is that I am fairly happy in Denmark. I mean, I’m sure there are greater countries out there..just as well as you have ‘worse’ countries out there.. But Denmark is a great country. It’s safe. It’s socialistic. There’s a great safety net. My family lives here. It’s not big - that can have it’s pros and cons. I’m personally NOT into big countries. Great education system. No university fees/tuitions. On the contrary actually- students gets paid to study here. This means that we wouldn’t have to save up for our children’s education. Anyway....he doesn’t like it here. Hes attracted to North America. He believes he’s can much easier find a job there. He doesn’t want to “work like a horse” in Denmark, in order for us to be able to live here, and find a bigger place, when anyway this country is not on his wish list, so to say. We have no money in our pocket, I only have my savings, and that’s it, so to go and relocate seems, to me, completely insane.


Yeah, you already said this. But he hates it there.

I wrote what I did in response to you complaining that he was weighing pros and cons of different places in Canada. If moving to Canada is a possibility, it's smart to compare and contrast different places in Canada to make the best choice of location in Canada. For some reason his contemplation annoyed you. 

Your post just states the same thing. You think it's great where you live and don't want to move. And your husband isn't a factor in this, at all. 

I don't think your marriage is going to last. You are sounding like a broken record now.


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## 21stcenturyfox (Nov 29, 2020)

Livvie said:


> Not sure why you are so confused. He's thinking like an adult about pros and cons of different areas/cities in Canada to think about settling. Weighing advantages of different areas. Seems smart to me.


Seems to me like if he wants to live in a North American city he needs to put together the best resume he can and start sending it out to every applicable job he can find. Doesn't matter where he wants to go if he can't get a job there. And moving without a guaranteed job already lined up would be about the most irresponsible thing he could possibly do. As far as I know OP hasn't told us what her husband's profession is. We might be able to give her more advice if we know what kind of marketable skills he has. Most countries these days don't want immigrants who can't bring in very specific professional job skills (mostly STEM careers). OP's husband might want to sit down and very carefully go over the requirements to emigrate to Canada, they've gotten pretty strict. This would be a good place to start:




__





Who Qualifies for Canadian Permanent Residence/Skilled Worker Immigration? - Canada Immigration and Visa Information. Canadian Immigration Services and Free Online Evaluation.


Who Qualifies for Canadian Permanent Residence/Skilled Worker Immigration? - Canada Immigration and Visa Information. Canadian Immigration Services and Free




www.immigration.ca


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Strawberry1984 said:


> I feel like this whole “where should we live - living in your country makes me numb” is making me start to resent him. His approach to relocating sounds to me super childish. He for example want to have the ability to go skiing in the winters -in Canada you do these things. He wants to live in a place where he says ppls memtality is more compatible with his own - yet, the cities he’s now mentioning in Canada, are all places he haven’t even visited! He wants to speak to
> a great uncle living in one of those cities to hear which one is more attractive when having kids. But I’m like, what does he know?! He’s not our age. He might think one thing, while we would see it differently. My husband wants him to guide him in terms of where we from should look for housing and jobs... I don’t know. I find this whole thing so wrongly approached. Is it just me? I mean, if ONLY we were going to a SPECIFIC country/city that he used to live in, and are completely in love with, and would have a great network in..then that would be one thing. But to relocate to a complete unknown city and country..no connections, no network, no family, no nothing! Seems to me SO unappealing!!


Your family WOULD be there, your husband and children ARE your main family. You would make friends as many do all the time. You could make a new good life there, its a great place to live. You wont though because its all about what you want and nothing about what is best for him and your children.


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## Maryjean76 (Jun 16, 2020)

This sounds a bit like my situation. After getting married, I was forced to make a choice between my hubby's happiness and my parents. So at 24, I left my parents in Italy and followed my hubby to the USA. It was tough. I was very attached to my parents. I went to see my parents once a year and stayed for one month. I really made the most out of that month though. We always went on vacation together and made lots of pictures and videos.

Life is easier now with flight connections versus my ancestors who when they left for the USA to work rarely came back or if they did it was very sparingly, like very 3-4 years. They only wrote letters to communicate and now we have Facetime. 

Now though that my parents are old (83 and 86) we have decided to go back to Italy and hubby is struggling again. It's not easy to make everybody happy-but we try out best.

The thing is, it is tough to leave our family of origin. My hubby like yours left his family very young and was rather independent so he struggles understanding my attachment. I often have to remind myself that he is my new family and priority, but now that my parents are old I think it's time for me to treasure them and I deserve my slice of time with them.


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## 21stcenturyfox (Nov 29, 2020)

Wondering if this article I found on another site was written by OP's husband.








Denmark is where I live. But I think it will never be home. - Jon Worth Euroblog


It was a normal enough Copenhagen situation; that’s what makes it frustrating. I was introduced to some friends of my partner’s in Copenhagen yesterday evening. Two of them persisted in speaking Danish conscious that I did not understand what they were saying, and the third – rather than...



jonworth.eu


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

You are going to need to mature enough to be open to leaving/moving from your parents.

he is going to need to learn how to travel a bit if that allows him to provide for his family.

money thing each man should understand well - a woman will find any marriage difficult when the man isn’t providing plenty of income to help a woman feel safe and protected.

if he can’t make money there/now - he should be willing to take a job that he does. Even if he travels to do that. He can come home to his family if he travels 3-4 days a week.


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## Strawberry1984 (Dec 27, 2020)

21stcenturyfox said:


> Seems to me like if he wants to live in a North American city he needs to put together the best resume he can and start sending it out to every applicable job he can find. Doesn't matter where he wants to go if he can't get a job there. And moving without a guaranteed job already lined up would be about the most irresponsible thing he could possibly do. As far as I know OP hasn't told us what her husband's profession is. We might be able to give her more advice if we know what kind of marketable skills he has. Most countries these days don't want immigrants who can't bring in very specific professional job skills (mostly STEM careers). OP's husband might want to sit down and very carefully go over the requirements to emigrate to Canada, they've gotten pretty strict. This would be a good place to start:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi, 
He wouldn’t need to emigrate to Canada, as he already holds a Canadian citizenship. He wasn’t born in Canada. Doesn’t have any family in Canada, but he lives there and worked there for 8 years, from age 19-27. While living and working there, he applied for a citizenship and was granted one 5 y ago. Because he has one, he has been able to also apply, and get, our children a Canadian citizenship too (so they have dual today - Danish abs Canadian) 
Therefore, in that aspect, it won’t be an issue for him to move and get a job in canada. 
I, on the other hand, don’t hold a Canadian citizenship.
Fully agree though, that he HAS TO have a job lined up before we leave Denmark. IF we were to leave Denmark. 
His educational background is on a political side (holds a bachelor’s degree-but that’s not what he wants to work with) while his work experience is on the business side. He doesn’t have a business background as a degree, but he has a 12+ y work experience from working with business.
Here in Denmark it’s super hard to get a job only based on previous job experience. They will always choose the ones that holds a bachelor + masters degree first.
Same goes for Canada?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Strawberry1984 said:


> Hi,
> He wouldn’t need to emigrate to Canada, as he already holds a Canadian citizenship. He wasn’t born in Canada. Doesn’t have any family in Canada, but he lives there and worked there for 8 years, from age 19-27. While living and working there, he applied for a citizenship and was granted one 5 y ago. Because he has one, he has been able to also apply, and get, our children a Canadian citizenship too (so they have dual today - Danish abs Canadian)
> Therefore, in that aspect, it won’t be an issue for him to move and get a job in canada.
> I, on the other hand, don’t hold a Canadian citizenship.
> ...


No point in him applying for anything because you are refusing to go.


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