# "Trial" seperation



## Mikefromaus

My wife of 20 years wants to do a trial separation (I have posted previously on a different thread in regards to dealing with partners trauma).
She said that she needs time to heal the damage our relationship has had on her. She has been found to a trauma therapist for almost 7 years now and I believe I have tried to support her as best I know how. Tried to give her space when asked and comfort when asked. I have always tried to put her 1st before everything. We did marriage counselling but I think that it made things worse (My wife is currently studying to be a psychologist) the councillor and.my wife can carry on a conversation about things that don't understand. So I get frustrated and dont talk. My wife says im not even trying.
So we are now at a fork in the road. In the last 2 weeks I have been diagnosed with anxiety and depression and my eldest son has threatened to commit suicide (our relationship issues were probably the straw that broke the camel's back with him) I'm at a loss of what to do, I love her so much and don't want to lose her. Any advise....... 


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## Lostinthought61

can i ask what the boundaries of this trial separation are (time frame, date nights, physical interactions, dating others)? the irony here is that she is studying to be a psychologist but is running away to address her issues?


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## Decorum

Far and away the person who wants a "separation" wants to cover for an affair, by being unaccountable, and excusing it with, "we were separated ".

Tell her you will give her the space she needs, and file for divorce.


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## Laurentium

Decorum said:


> Far and away the person who wants a "separation" wants to cover for an affair, by being unaccountable, and excusing it with, "we were separated ".


I understand why you'd say that - it's often true - but have you read his previous thread about how his wife was a victim of rape and child sexual abuse? It changes the picture. 
@Mikefromaus I am sorry that the repercussions on your family continue. It sounds as if the shock waves are hurting everyone. On your previous thread, you received some truly excellent advice from people who have been involved in similar situations: @Thor, @farsidejunky, and @happiness27 in particular. The best advice I can give you is to read their posts yet again. They were incredibly generous. 

It sounds as if MC is not helping. One of the pieces of advice you were given was "_Now is not the time for regular marriage counseling._" What is most needed is counselling individually for her, from someone who is an expert in this kind of trauma. 

I am a marriage therapist, but CSA is not my specialist subject. What I've usually seen is the desire of survivors to "take back control" and this often involves separation, or even ending their current relationship. However, it sounds as if your wife is blaming you, which is not appropriate. You need to understand where she's coming from, but also be boundaried, ie not accept blame for that which is not yours. You might consider not participating in MC any more. As to the separation, you can't stop her. 

Please get help for your son, if you can. 

(If anyone is wondering why I end up working with CSA survivors when it's not my particular training, and whether that's ethical, the answer is that CSA sometimes gets revealed when we are already deep into the woods of the counselling, and it's difficult to say to a couple, "now you need to stop seeing me and go see someone else", it would feel very punitive and rejecting to them. I do try to get as much ongoing training in this subject as I can. )


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## StillSearching

Decorum said:


> Far and away the person who wants a "separation" wants to cover for an affair, by being unaccountable, and excusing it with, "we were separated ".
> 
> Tell her you will give her the space she needs, and file for divorce.


THIS^^ she's cheating on you brotha!


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## Mikefromaus

Lostinthought61 said:


> can i ask what the boundaries of this trial separation are (time frame, date nights, physical interactions, dating others)? the irony here is that she is studying to be a psychologist but is running away to address her issues?


No boundaries have been set as yet 

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## Lostinthought61

Mikefromaus said:


> No boundaries have been set as yet
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk




HUGE MISTAKE....i would tell her stay in the marriage and work it out or divorce....of course you are presently playing from a weak hand so i suspect you will not take that advice.


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## personofinterest

Laurentium said:


> I understand why you'd say that - it's often true - but have you read his previous thread about how his wife was a victim of rape and child sexual abuse? It changes the picture.
> 
> @Mikefromaus I am sorry that the repercussions on your family continue. It sounds as if the shock waves are hurting everyone. On your previous thread, you received some truly excellent advice from people who have been involved in similar situations: @Thor, @farsidejunky, and @happiness27 in particular. The best advice I can give you is to read their posts yet again. They were incredibly generous.
> 
> It sounds as if MC is not helping. One of the pieces of advice you were given was "_Now is not the time for regular marriage counseling._" What is most needed is counselling individually for her, from someone who is an expert in this kind of trauma.
> 
> I am a marriage therapist, but CSA is not my specialist subject. What I've usually seen is the desire of survivors to "take back control" and this often involves separation, or even ending their current relationship. However, it sounds as if your wife is blaming you, which is not appropriate. You need to understand where she's coming from, but also be boundaried, ie not accept blame for that which is not yours. You might consider not participating in MC any more. As to the separation, you can't stop her.
> 
> Please get help for your son, if you can.
> 
> (If anyone is wondering why I end up working with CSA survivors when it's not my particular training, and whether that's ethical, the answer is that CSA sometimes gets revealed when we are already deep into the woods of the counselling, and it's difficult to say to a couple, "now you need to stop seeing me and go see someone else", it would feel very punitive and rejecting to them. I do try to get as much ongoing training in this subject as I can. )



There is a lot of thought out wisdom in this post that may counter the knee-jerk type assumptions.

However, there is no reason not to do some investigating. Also, if you DO separate, there need to be boundaries IN WRITING, and one of them needs to be NO dating or close opposite sex relationships.


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## 3Xnocharm

Mikefromaus said:


> My wife of 20 years wants to do a trial separation (I have posted previously on a different thread in regards to dealing with partners trauma).
> She said that she needs time to heal the damage our relationship has had on her.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


What has happened in your marriage that she feels has been so damaging? I did see in posts below your OP about her CSA...


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## Decorum

Laurentium said:


> I understand why you'd say that - it's often true - but have you read his previous thread about how his wife was a victim of rape and child sexual abuse? It changes the picture.
> 
> @Mikefromaus I am sorry that the repercussions on your family continue. It sounds as if the shock waves are hurting everyone. On your previous thread, you received some truly excellent advice from people who have been involved in similar situations: @Thor, @farsidejunky, and @happiness27 in particular. The best advice I can give you is to read their posts yet again. They were incredibly generous.
> 
> It sounds as if MC is not helping. One of the pieces of advice you were given was "_Now is not the time for regular marriage counseling._" What is most needed is counselling individually for her, from someone who is an expert in this kind of trauma.
> 
> I am a marriage therapist, but CSA is not my specialist subject. What I've usually seen is the desire of survivors to "take back control" and this often involves separation, or even ending their current relationship. However, it sounds as if your wife is blaming you, which is not appropriate. You need to understand where she's coming from, but also be boundaried, ie not accept blame for that which is not yours. You might consider not participating in MC any more. As to the separation, you can't stop her.
> 
> Please get help for your son, if you can.
> 
> (If anyone is wondering why I end up working with CSA survivors when it's not my particular training, and whether that's ethical, the answer is that CSA sometimes gets revealed when we are already deep into the woods of the counselling, and it's difficult to say to a couple, "now you need to stop seeing me and go see someone else", it would feel very punitive and rejecting to them. I do try to get as much ongoing training in this subject as I can. )


No I have not read them, thank you for that information. 

CSA changes everything, unfortunately that includes the likelihood of her ever being and equal partner in the relationship. 

I can only wish them both well.


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## jlg07

I don't understand why YOUR relationship with her damaged her so much that she needs to separate?
OBVIOUSLY she has issues from the CSA and rape, but not sure why YOU are getting tagged with that as you causing damage.

Second, do some investigation (check her phone/messages/etc.) if you can -- may reveal the reason why she wants a separation. Does she have phone conversations that she walks away from you to another room? If so, VAR that room.
May be nothing more than discussions with a friend, but maybe not.

You DO need to make clear -- NO opposite sex relationships (dating, sex or otherwise) while separated -- if she won't agree, then you should just divorce since you will know WHY she wants the separation.

I agree that YOU should also go to one of her sessions and talk with the counselor. I don't see ANY good coming out of being separated other than learning how to live apart from you so she can divorce you. Being separated isn't working on a marriage AT ALL.


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## sokillme

After reading your posts it seems like your wife is letting the marriage bleed out, if it were me I would just cut it off and end it at this point. Everything in life ends. I think she wants yours to end but doesn't want to tell you. For all you know she is also having an affair.


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## personofinterest

> OBVIOUSLY she has issues from the CSA and rape, but not sure why YOU are getting tagged with that as you causing damage.


Did the OP actually SAY that his wife said HE caused the CSA damage? Maybe she is referring to something HE actually did.

Sometimes it isn't the wife's fault.


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## jlg07

POI, I was referring to this:
"She said that she needs time to heal the damage our relationship has had on her."

I presumed (perhaps incorrectly) that THEIR relationship has caused HER. I was not implying that he did anything with the CSA (sorry if I wasn't clear). The way I interpreted this was DUE to her CSA/Rape, THEIR relationship was damaging.


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## Yeswecan

Appears the "damage" is an excuse of sorts to "trial separate" which is code for "I have a "friend" that is overly friendly that I want to see how it works out. If you could just stand by that would be great." 

Tell us about the counselor and your W.


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## zookeeper

Some people never get better. No amount of love, support, kindness, therapy, drugs, etc. ever helps in a lasting and meaningful way. If she has been in personal therapy for 7 years for this trauma I suggest you ponder the possibility that your wife is one of the unfortunate souls. 

I can't tell you that I think separation will help your marriage, but a little distance may help you see how unhappy you are with this profoundly damaged woman. People in your situation often become so focused on helping their spouse that they lose sight of their own happiness.

I don't know if your wife will get better or worse. I don't know if you should separate, divorce or stay together. I do know that you need to take a cold, sober look at your life and decide how much more of your time you want to invest with such long odds for real improvement.

Your son's situation makes this all the more critical. Consider if he would be better off with less exposure to your disfunctional marriage and his mother's mental illness.

Good luck.


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## Marc878

It would be wise for you to go online and check your phone bill. Make sure there's nothing amiss.

Separation is a prelude to divorce. Most of the time.


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## oldshirt

What is the trauma????

Was it her CSA or was it something that happened in the marriage in modern time?


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## oldshirt

My own personal opinion is that a temporary time out during the heat of the moment can help allow the dust to settle and cooler heads to prevail after a couple days of self reflection and after the adrenaline has died down.

But an actual separation with separate homes, separate activities and such is simply preparing for divorce and separate lives or is an excuse to give someone else a test drive to see if they will be a bigger, better deal.

If they are a BBD then the ax comes down for good.

And if the test drive doesn't pan out, then they use the excuse, "we were separated."


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## oldshirt

And just because someone is a CSA survivor, doesn't mean they aren't using a separation as a chance to hook up with others.

I don't know if Bobert's wife was out of the house a full 24 hours before she was having anal sex and declaring her undying love for one of her OMs. 

Just because someone is a CSA victim in childhood doesn't mean that they aren't an evil, manipulative, cheating monster in adulthood.


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## Mikefromaus

I have done the snooping around at phone bills etc and have found nothing to be concerned about I only felt awful for actually doing it.

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## Mikefromaus

Laurentium said:


> I
> 
> 
> 
> Please get help for your son, if you can.
> 
> . [/SIZE])


We are getting my son the help he need. I have taken over that and am changing the way that he has been dealing with it ( he has been in talk therapy type coucilling for a year now for anxiety and depression ) I am now pushing him towards more practical things that he can do to help deal with the depression and anxiety.

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## Mikefromaus

Laurentium said:


> I understand why you'd say that - it's often true - but have you read his previous thread about how his wife was a victim of rape and child sexual abuse? It changes the picture.
> 
> 
> @Mikefromaus I am sorry that the repercussions on your family continue. It sounds as if the shock waves are hurting everyone. On your previous thread, you received some truly excellent advice from people who have been involved in similar situations: @Thor, @farsidejunky, and @happiness27 in particular. The best advice I can give you is to read their posts yet again. They were incredibly generous.
> 
> 
> 
> It sounds as if MC is not helping. One of the pieces of advice you were given was "_Now is not the time for regular marriage counseling._" What is most needed is counselling individually for her, from someone who is an expert in this kind of trauma.
> 
> 
> 
> I am a marriage therapist, but CSA is not my specialist subject. What I've usually seen is the desire of survivors to "take back control" and this often involves separation, or even ending their current relationship. However, it sounds as if your wife is blaming you, which is not appropriate. You need to understand where she's coming from, but also be boundaried, ie not accept blame for that which is not yours. You might consider not participating in MC any more. As to the separation, you can't stop her.
> 
> 
> 
> Please get help for your son, if you can.
> 
> 
> 
> (If anyone is wondering why I end up working with CSA survivors when it's not my particular training, and whether that's ethical, the answer is that CSA sometimes gets revealed when we are already deep into the woods of the counselling, and it's difficult to say to a couple, "now you need to stop seeing me and go see someone else", it would feel very punitive and rejecting to them. I do try to get as much ongoing training in this subject as I can. )


As a councillor do you think that "trauma based therapy" is a good way of dealing with her past CSA and rape . I mean digging up the past and having to relive the events I great detail.

Just a sidenote to the rape and CSA the CSA offender died 4 or 5 years ago and the rapist was reported to police about 6 months ago. Where she went through the very detailed account of the incidents from the car, his clothes, Location, smell etc only to find out a couple of moths later that there was not enough evidence to charge him!( I was with her in the interview room whilst the statement was being taken)

It was a very painfull experience for both of us.....

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## Diana7

Mikefromaus said:


> My wife of 20 years wants to do a trial separation (I have posted previously on a different thread in regards to dealing with partners trauma).
> She said that she needs time to heal the damage our relationship has had on her. She has been found to a trauma therapist for almost 7 years now and I believe I have tried to support her as best I know how. Tried to give her space when asked and comfort when asked. I have always tried to put her 1st before everything. We did marriage counselling but I think that it made things worse (My wife is currently studying to be a psychologist) the councillor and.my wife can carry on a conversation about things that don't understand. So I get frustrated and dont talk. My wife says im not even trying.
> So we are now at a fork in the road. In the last 2 weeks I have been diagnosed with anxiety and depression and my eldest son has threatened to commit suicide (our relationship issues were probably the straw that broke the camel's back with him) I'm at a loss of what to do, I love her so much and don't want to lose her. Any advise.......
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


What damage has the marriage had on her? 
In my experience when one wants a separation the marriage is over. if she didn't want the marriage to be over she wouldn't leave. A separation solves exactly nothing.


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## Laurentium

Mikefromaus said:


> As a councillor do you think that "trauma based therapy" is a good way of dealing with her past CSA and rape . I mean digging up the past and having to relive the events I great detail.


*I think you should get advice on that from an expert in that kind of trauma. *


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## SpinyNorman

As for the counsellor and your W talking shop, say "Can you put that in layman's terms?" or "I don't understand", and do this every time. If the counsellor is any good, he/she will have an "oops" moment and clarify it. If not, fire him/her. It is not up to you to learn the counsellor's job, it is his/her job to explain stuff to you.


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## AttaBoy

Mikefromaus said:


> I can't seem to see this thread it says a security error
> 
> I haven't been active for a few days as I needed to unplug from everyone and everything so I went camping for a few days with no access to phone reception or internet
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


Mike, please stay away from that linked thread. It is way beyond perplexing. It will only mess with your ability to think straight and remain rational. It is a one in a billion case and will only make it harder for you to keep your focus on your current situation.


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## 3Xnocharm

AttaBoy said:


> Mike, please stay away from that linked thread. It is way beyond perplexing. It will only mess with your ability to think straight and remain rational. I*t is a one in a billion case *and will only make it harder for you to keep your focus on your current situation.


No, really at its core, it isnt.... he posted originally because his wife was being distant and he wanted help with figuring out why. He was insistent there was no way she was cheating because she "wasnt like that" essentially. As is usually the case, he was wrong. 

It in the Private section, so thats probably why he is having issues getting to it. (the link was to his part 2 thread, not his original Dealing with Distant Wife thread, also...)


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## NextTimeAround

zookeeper said:


> Some people never get better. No amount of love, support, kindness, therapy, drugs, etc. ever helps in a lasting and meaningful way. If she has been in personal therapy for 7 years for this trauma I suggest you ponder the possibility that your wife is one of the unfortunate souls.


I knew a guy who told me that his wife is an alcoholic. She became this way, he said, due to her father sexually abusing her when she was a teenager. Something about how the cilia on the lungs die off.

In any case, that's one situation which I didn't think was going to repaired.


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## Decorum

Mikefromaus said:


> I can't seem to see this thread it says a security error
> 
> I haven't been active for a few days as I needed to unplug from everyone and everything so I went camping for a few days with no access to phone reception or internet
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


Oh yeah, you need a few more posts before you can get in there, you need to have 30+1 posts. You are almost there just post a few more reply's.

This is from the sticky.
It is only viewable by "Forum Supporters," Members with over 30 posts, and Moderators.


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## Mikefromaus

Decorum said:


> Oh yeah, you need a few more posts before you can get in there, you need to have 30+1 posts. You are almost there just post a few more reply's.
> 
> 
> 
> This is from the sticky.
> 
> It is only viewable by "Forum Supporters," Members with over 30 posts, and Moderators.


Ok thanks 

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## Mikefromaus

3Xnocharm said:


> No, really at its core, it isnt.... he posted originally because his wife was being distant and he wanted help with figuring out why. He was insistent there was no way she was cheating because she "wasnt like that" essentially. As is usually the case, he was wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> It in the Private section, so thats probably why he is having issues getting to it. (the link was to his part 2 thread, not his original Dealing with Distant Wife thread, also...)


Apparently I need to have more posts to be able to see it

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## Mikefromaus

SpinyNorman said:


> As for the counsellor and your W talking shop, say "Can you put that in layman's terms?" or "I don't understand", and do this every time. If the counsellor is any good, he/she will have an "oops" moment and clarify it. If not, fire him/her. It is not up to you to learn the counsellor's job, it is his/her job to explain stuff to you.


I have so many times and am starting to feel a bit retarded for asking for so many explanations 

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## Mikefromaus

Does anyone or can anyone recommend a good councillor in perth western Australia I've been finding a lot of closed businesses or too far away

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## Mikefromaus

Diana7 said:


> What damage has the marriage had on her?
> 
> In my experience when one wants a separation the marriage is over. if she didn't want the marriage to be over she wouldn't leave. A separation solves exactly nothing.


She is now talking about a short term lease on a transportable home/granny flat to be on our property 

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## Mikefromaus

Lostinthought61 said:


> can i ask what the boundaries of this trial separation are (time frame, date nights, physical interactions, dating others)? the irony here is that she is studying to be a psychologist but is running away to address her issues?


We are starting to have discussions about the boundaries etc however I'm still wanting her to reconsider the time apart

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## Mikefromaus

3Xnocharm said:


> What has happened in your marriage that she feels has been so damaging? I did see in posts below your OP about her CSA...


I'm in the dark on that one....... She says that she has never been alone her whole life and never had to do everything for herself. We met when we were still at school 

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## 3Xnocharm

Mikefromaus said:


> We are starting to have discussions about the boundaries etc however I'm still wanting her to reconsider the time apart
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


Why would you want her to stay if she doesnt want to be there? You only invite stress and heartache that way. 




Mikefromaus said:


> I'm in the dark on that one....... She says that she has never been alone her whole life and never had to do everything for herself. We met when we were still at school
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


Code for "I want to test drive other men".


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## notmyjamie

Mikefromaus said:


> I have so many times and am starting to feel a bit retarded for asking for so many explanations
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


It might help to speak to the counselor alone and remind him/her that YOU are part of the paying customer and you're not getting what you need do to his/her inability to see you and meet your needs. And say exactly what you've said here, you don't want to keep asking for explanations because it's making you feel stupid and that is ENTIRELY the counselor's fault. And if it doesn't stop, you will stop coming to counseling with this person.





Mikefromaus said:


> I'm in the dark on that one....... She says that she has never been alone her whole life and never had to do everything for herself. We met when we were still at school
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


That is something many women say when they go straight from their parent's home to their spouse's home. And it makes sense that your wife is trying to take back control of her life after her experiences and that she'd want to experience being "independent" which many women equate with being strong. 

If you are going to do this, the boundaries have to be very clear. As in, no dating, no close opposite sex friendships, etc. And that if she wants to be independent, that means she takes out her own trash, does her own bills, does her own food shopping, laundry, housework, home repair, etc etc. Being independent is not all it's cracked up to be. Don't let her have the advantages without letting her see what the disadvantages are as well.


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## Tron

notmyjamie said:


> That is something many women say when they go straight from their parent's home to their spouse's home. And it makes sense that your wife is trying to take back control of her life after her experiences and that she'd want to experience being "independent" which many women equate with being strong.
> 
> If you are going to do this, the boundaries have to be very clear. As in, no dating, no close opposite sex friendships, etc. And that if she wants to be independent, that means she takes out her own trash, does her own bills, does her own food shopping, laundry, housework, home repair, etc etc. Being independent is not all it's cracked up to be. Don't let her have the advantages without letting her see what the disadvantages are as well.


In an ideal world the "separating spouse" would actually do all of this and maintain healthy boundaries.

In reality, more often than not, the "separating spouse" would probably prefer that this is left unaddressed entirely so they can claim plausible deniability. Or, when confronted with a request for solid boundaries you receive an "oh, ok??", "that is not what I had in mind", "of course, no dating others" or outright lies. The real intent is to get their spouse out of the way so they can go out and test ride other people, test out other relationships and have their old spouse as a plan B. And more often than not, after a while when those other relationships don't pan out, they realize that they have been played or treated like a "pump and dump", they come back to their spouse and claim "we were separated so I felt I could do whatever I wanted. You could have too." The "left behind" spouse is then left with devastation.

Just BEWARE!!!


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## Chaparral

When you first mentioned CSA my first thought was an affair. For whatever reason there have been a ton of CSA survivor women that turned out to be cheating in n their husband here.
If her phone records are clear you need to look into her workplace. Those are the hardest affairs to uncover. 

In any event her actions say she doesn’t love you. Why do you want to hang on to that?

Her idea is to get a mobile unit and be your neighbor?


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## Chaparral

Was the rape during your marriage? Is he blaming you for not supporting her enough?
Under what conditions was the rape?

If the thread mentioned earlier is the one I’m thinking of, the rape turned out to be a lie but the CSA turned out to be horrible.


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## jlg07

Mikefromaus said:


> I'm in the dark on that one....... She says that she has never been alone her whole life and never had to do everything for herself. We met when we were still at school
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


So how is that "damaging"??? It's certainly not YOUR fault that she never spent time on her own...

Have you finished the discussion of boundaries during separation? You really need to be explicit about no opposite sex friends/dating, etc.. Get this in writing and make it an "official" separation (in case where you live requires a certain amount of separation before a divorce -- don't know what your jurisdiction requires). NOT saying you will get divorced, but better to plan ahead and be prepared for ALL eventualities.


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## Mikefromaus

Chaparral said:


> Was the rape during your marriage? Is he blaming you for not supporting her enough?
> Under what conditions was the rape?
> 
> If the thread mentioned earlier is the one I’m thinking of, the rape turned out to be a lie but the CSA turned out to be horrible.


No the rape was before we met. She was only 15 and was raped by a 19 year old friend of a relative 

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## x598

MfromAU

can I ask you how this trauma effected you relationship when you met or after? I mean can I assume she treated you well and was loving with you in the beginning and as time went on? only to later pull out this trauma card?

I truly am sorry for what she went through, but as so many here have said.....all I see is this being played out and a convenient excuse to go do what she wishes and play victim and make you out to be the bad person if you dare have the audacity to challenger her on it.

so seriously what are you supposed to do? sit around in limbo while she holds this over your head in case she MIGHT start to feel like investing in your relationship again? if she was so damaged she should have never got into a relationship with you to begin with until she closed the door in the skeltons in her closet. Did she ever discuss or admit any of this to you?


sorry to sound like a jerk but that's just my opinion and I think there is something else going on and this tool of hers is awfully convenient to keep control over you.

im very sorry.


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## Mikefromaus

x598 said:


> MfromAU
> 
> 
> 
> can I ask you how this trauma effected you relationship when you met or after? I mean can I assume she treated you well and was loving with you in the beginning and as time went on? only to later pull out this trauma card?
> 
> 
> 
> I truly am sorry for what she went through, but as so many here have said.....all I see is this being played out and a convenient excuse to go do what she wishes and play victim and make you out to be the bad person if you dare have the audacity to challenger her on it.
> 
> 
> 
> so seriously what are you supposed to do? sit around in limbo while she holds this over your head in case she MIGHT start to feel like investing in your relationship again? if she was so damaged she should have never got into a relationship with you to begin with until she closed the door in the skeltons in her closet. Did she ever discuss or admit any of this to you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sorry to sound like a jerk but that's just my opinion and I think there is something else going on and this tool of hers is awfully convenient to keep control over you.
> 
> 
> 
> im very sorry.


I knew about the CSA not long after we met but didn't find out about the rape till a few years ago. I believe that the rape came up during a coucilling session ,like she had locked that up until something brought back a memory of it.

The first 10 or 12 years of marriage were pretty good in my opinion. I always wanted to spend more time with her, I couldn't wait to finish work so I could get home to her. But I feel she has progressively become more distant since she started councilling 6 or 7 years ago. There is so much more to her than this . I truly do believe that she thinks that some time apart will help heal our relationship. But I'm not so sure 

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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Mikefromaus said:


> I knew about the CSA not long after we met but didn't find out about the rape till a few years ago. I believe that the rape came up during a coucilling session ,like she had locked that up until something brought back a memory of it.
> 
> The first 10 or 12 years of marriage were pretty good in my opinion. I always wanted to spend more time with her, I couldn't wait to finish work so I could get home to her. But I feel she has progressively become more distant since she started councilling 6 or 7 years ago. There is so much more to her than this . I truly do believe that she thinks that some time apart will help heal our relationship. But I'm not so sure
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


What is her definition of 'healing the relationship'? Looks to me like you are slowly being friend zoned...Your wife wants out and the counselor is helping her make that transition at your expense via browbeating you and masking their true intentions. . 

I would tell her after 7 years of therapy the end result is to be told I want to live on a trailer in plain site of you but not with you 'to figure things out' is ridiculous and unacceptable. If her and her counselor think that your wife is better not being married to you they should just say so in plain english so that you can move on with your life.


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## BigbadBootyDaddy

Cant cook dinner if you’re not in the kitchen.


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## MJJEAN

Mikefromaus said:


> Does anyone or can anyone recommend a good councillor in perth western Australia I've been finding a lot of closed businesses or too far away
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


I'm not from your continent, so I have no idea how rural you are and how reliable internet is where you live, but would it be possible to find a therapist online who will do sessions over video chat? A lot of couples who live rural, work odd hours, or are frequently separated due to work have their counseling sessions online. 



Mikefromaus said:


> I'm in the dark on that one....... She says that she has never been alone her whole life and never had to do everything for herself. We met when we were still at school
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


I went from my parents house to my 1st husbands parents house to various rental homes with 1st husband to living back with my in-laws during the separation, to living with my DH. I'm 43 and I've literally never had the ability to decorate, arrange, or clean a house of my own in my own way in my own time without having to take others into consideration. It would almost be a luxury to randomly vacuum cobwebs at 2am because I can't sleep and am feeling inspired.



notmyjamie said:


> That is something many women say when they go straight from their parent's home to their spouse's home. And it makes sense that your wife is trying to take back control of her life after her experiences and that she'd want to experience being "independent" which many women equate with being strong.
> 
> If you are going to do this, the boundaries have to be very clear. As in, no dating, no close opposite sex friendships, etc. And that if she wants to be independent, that means she takes out her own trash, does her own bills, does her own food shopping, laundry, housework, home repair, etc etc. Being independent is not all it's cracked up to be. Don't let her have the advantages without letting her see what the disadvantages are as well.


So much this.

If she wants to experience of being a single woman then she needs to live like a single woman responsible for her own life in it's entirety. Do not help her. If she wants to know what it's like to stand on her own then she needs to stand on her own. I realize that may be hard for you, but it's necessary.

I wouldn't let her move a trailer or granny house on your property. She needs to know what it's like to live away from home.


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## x598

mike

the whole point of going to therapy, or seeing any doctor for that matter is to get better.

if I was sick and had been to a doctor for SEVEN YEARS and my situation isn't improving......just maybe its time to get a new doctor (I hope you see the sarcasm in that).

I understand that sometimes healing can be unpleasant (for example chemo treatment has toxic side effects with cancer) but after SEVEN freaking years its time to say enough is enough and look for alternatives.

let me say something that will seem very harsh......but the reality is your wife would rather be a victim and wallow in her past injury then have a healthy loving relationship with you. if after seven years of seeing a shrink hasn't helped....or possibly made her plight worse......is it time to consider she may NEVER get back to the woman you once knew and loved? Does she really expect you to sit around for how many more year while she tries to "sort out" (whatever that means) if she will ever feel like rejoining you relationship? to me, it seems like what she is doing is ….brace yourself......punishing YOU and extracting revenge for what someone else did to her.

if I were in you situation....enough is enough. I would tell her that she finds a new shrink TODAY.....and you join her in couples counseling and she can continue individual counseling but with a new doctor and give it a couple months. the other alternative is to file for divorce and give her that independence and freedom she is looking for but not brave enough to take on yet.


its easy for me to say this.....not because im some anonymous stranger on the internet, but because i'm not emotionally connected to your spouse as you are and the feeling/emotions cloud our judgement. You have to come to terms with the fact your wife may NEVER get past this and your relationship as you once had is gone forever. its simply a matter of how long you wish to stay with a sinking ship.


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## Mikefromaus

So an update. I know it's a long process. My partner has finally found a rental property and moves in next week. We have told our children today. She has agreed to a relationship contract and a term of 6 months in the rental. I am definitely in struggle town right now. I have also agreed to help her collect furniture and move in. She has agreed to go on " dates'" to try and rekindle our relationship. I have absolutely no reason to not believe her but I'm still having trouble with the trust.

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## manwithnoname

Mikefromaus said:


> So an update. I know it's a long process. My partner has finally found a rental property and moves in next week. We have told our children today. She has agreed to a relationship contract and a term of 6 months in the rental. I am definitely in struggle town right now. I have also agreed to help her collect furniture and move in. She has agreed to go on " dates'" to try and rekindle our relationship. I have absolutely no reason to not believe her but I'm still having trouble with the trust.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


You could help her to see what living alone is all about, by not helping her move furniture.

Also, is she going to date other guys as well? What are the terms of this separation?


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## Mikefromaus

manwithnoname said:


> You could help her to see what living alone is all about, by not helping her move furniture.
> 
> 
> 
> Also, is she going to date other guys as well? What are the terms of this separation?


No other relationships ok male or female. And I don't want to be the "****" that didn't help


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## 3Xnocharm

I do hope she is being honest, but please be wary of this. My ex-husband‘s second wife did this, she moved out telling him that they could go to counseling and that they would be working on their marriage, but it wasn’t the truth. She was completely done and was going to file for divorce, and that’s what she did when she was out. I knew this, because she and I had talked previous to this going down, and I thought it was a really horrible way for her to go about this. She was afraid of him and she thought this was the only way that she was going to be able to get out. 


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## Mikefromaus

3Xnocharm said:


> I do hope she is being honest, but please be wary of this. My ex-husband‘s second wife did this, she moved out telling him that they could go to counseling and that they would be working on their marriage, but it wasn’t the truth. She was completely done and was going to file for divorce, and that’s what she did when she was out. I knew this, because she and I had talked previous to this going down, and I thought it was a really horrible way for her to go about this. She was afraid of him and she thought this was the only way that she was going to be able to get out.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I seriously hope this isn't the case


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## aine

Mikefromaus said:


> I seriously hope this isn't the case
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


Sorry Mike you are going through this but to be honest, you should be focusing more on yourself than your wife. You have to work on your inner man and outer man. Go to your own therapy, go to the gym, do the things you never got a chance to do when you were married, etc. If you work on yourself, she might come back and if she doesn't you are a great man for the next woman to come into your life.


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## Andy1001

Mikefromaus said:


> No other relationships ok male or female. And I don't want to be the "****" that didn't help
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


Mike you’re still trying to “nice” your wife back into your marriage but at this stage surely you can see the writing on the wall. You need to treat this as a real separation,not some little game that your wife is playing. Don’t be afraid of saying no to her when you get asked to help her in her new home. 
Once she moves you need to focus on yourself,live your life on your own terms and don’t hang around waiting for her. Let her realize that she needs to convince YOU to come back to her. You are now a single man,live like one except for dating obviously. You are living in a beautiful part of the world,why not hit the beaches regularly with or without the children. 
As it stands your wife has the luxury of knowing that if her single woman journey doesn’t work out then plan B (this would be you) is waiting with open arms. 
She needs to be disillusioned of this very quickly.


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## SecondWind

In your opening post you said she wanted a trial separation to heal the damage your relationship has done too her.

What damage is she taking about? If she is just making it up she could be afraid to take the jump to divorce and is easing you into it.

Are you seeing a counselor?


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## Mikefromaus

SecondWind said:


> In your opening post you said she wanted a trial separation to heal the damage your relationship has done too her.
> 
> 
> 
> What damage is she taking about? If she is just making it up she could be afraid to take the jump to divorce and is easing you into it.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you seeing a counselor?


We are both seeing seperate councillors and are currently looking for one we can see together.

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## arbitrator

*Please keep in mind that "trial separation" is just another codeword for displacing and dispatching the betrayed spouse so that the unfaithful spouse can play around unabated without you being an eyewitness to any of their sordid activities! *


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## Andy1001

arbitrator said:


> *Please keep in mind that "trial separation" is just another codeword for displacing and dispatching the betrayed spouse so that the unfaithful spouse can play around unabated without you being an eyewitness to any of their sordid activities! *


There are usually three reasons why one partner asks for a “break”.
1. They want to break up permanently but feel this way is less of a shock.
2. There is another person on the scene who they want to be free to see without being encumbered with a partner/spouse.
3. It’s a **** test and they want the other partner to beg them to come back.
None of these scenarios give any comfort to the partner left behind and in most of the cases I’ve seen option one is the result.


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## Diana7

I would say to her, if you move out then the marriage is over. 
Is she moving out alone? Leaving her own children?


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## ABHale

All the trial separations I have read ended up with the one wanting the separation cheating. 

They do it to start their single life. 

She has enlisted your help to set up her bachelorette pad. 

Best of luck with it.


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## turnera

I didn't see where you explained what the trauma was that you caused. Please explain.


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## farsidejunky

Andy1001 said:


> Mike you’re still trying to “nice” your wife back into your marriage but at this stage surely you can see the writing on the wall. You need to treat this as a real separation,not some little game that your wife is playing. Don’t be afraid of saying no to her when you get asked to help her in her new home.
> 
> Once she moves you need to focus on yourself,live your life on your own terms and don’t hang around waiting for her. Let her realize that she needs to convince YOU to come back to her. You are now a single man,live like one except for dating obviously. You are living in a beautiful part of the world,why not hit the beaches regularly with or without the children.
> 
> As it stands your wife has the luxury of knowing that if her single woman journey doesn’t work out then plan B (this would be you) is waiting with open arms.
> 
> She needs to be disillusioned of this very quickly.


Mike, read this repeatedly until it sinks in.

If you allow her all of the benefits of being married, without any of the liabilities, what reason does she have to return?

Furthermore, how will you feel about yourself as you continue to meet her needs while yours go unfulfilled? This has the risk of resenting her via projection.

Allow her to feel the full weight and consequences of her actions.

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## waynejoey

Separation seems like a dress rehearsal for an eventual affair or divorce.

As a man, one of the most important things to do is "cleave" to your wife. Without a closeness, you'll lose connection, and that's when women typically want out.

Women are more like cruise ships that take a long time to turn around. And each act of love is measured the same whether large (diamond earrings) or small (a thoughtful card).

So your action plan would look something like this:
- get her to stay
- start loving her every day, even when she doesn't deserve it
- do all the "little things"
- be incredibly patient and wait a long time
- be the best "you" - fit, patient, fun, great dad, clean, sober, organized...

One day things will click and when she looks back and sees all you have done for her, she'll run back to you like the prodigal son. Right now your role is to be like the father, waiting with open arms and unconditional love. You may also find yourself feeling like the older brother (resentful because you "don't deserve this").

It is a long and arduous journey, but will be worth it in the end.


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## 3Xnocharm

waynejoey said:


> *One day things will click and when she looks back and sees all you have done for her, she'll run back to you like the prodigal son.* Right now your role is to be like the father, waiting with open arms and unconditional love. You may also find yourself feeling like the older brother (resentful because you "don't deserve this").
> 
> It is a long and arduous journey, but will be worth it in the end.


You cant be serious. Do not give him this kind of false hope, have we EVER seen this happen here?? You are telling him to take a stance of weakness...women HATE weakness in their men.


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## waynejoey

Ah, I knew someone would say that!

Unconditional love = weakness is a lie that satan has told you, and it is easy to believe. I know because I lived it.

It is actually a feat of strength. Do you think anyone would call Jesus weak? He had the power to wipe everyone out but instead let himself be tortured to death. That level of strength can actually be very intoxicating to women. 

Its hard to capture all this in a post, but there can be a fine line sometimes. I am not in anyway advocating bending over backwards or being walked all over. OP has every right to maintain healthy boundaries and be the leader of his household. After all that is God's design for marriage. The man is to be a leader. Letting his wife go do a trial separation is a lack of leadership. Now clearly he can't force her to do anything, but he needs to set the standard and live with however she chooses to use her free will. He can still set an example whether she stays or goes.

However, if she does have the affair, then he is allowed to divorce and I wouldn't argue with that. But until the affair happens, this marriage is game on!

This is really hard stuff, most people want to take the comfortable way out: divorce, cheat, alcohol, violence, whatever quick hit soothes you. In the long run, that stuff actually isn't fulfilling.

Have I ever seen it "happen here"? Yes, in fact I have. I was the victim of divorce threats and conquered that trial.


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## MattMatt

zookeeper said:


> Some people never get better. No amount of love, support, kindness, therapy, drugs, etc. ever helps in a lasting and meaningful way. If she has been in personal therapy for 7 years for this trauma I suggest you ponder the possibility that your wife is one of the unfortunate souls.
> 
> I can't tell you that I think separation will help your marriage, but a little distance may help you see how unhappy you are with this profoundly damaged woman. People in your situation often become so focused on helping their spouse that they lose sight of their own happiness.
> 
> I don't know if your wife will get better or worse. I don't know if you should separate, divorce or stay together. I do know that you need to take a cold, sober look at your life and decide how much more of your time you want to invest with such long odds for real improvement.
> 
> Your son's situation makes this all the more critical. Consider if he would be better off with less exposure to your disfunctional marriage and his mother's mental illness.
> 
> Good luck.


Or that the counsellor is rubbish?


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## Andy1001

waynejoey said:


> Separation seems like a dress rehearsal for an eventual affair or divorce.
> 
> As a man, one of the most important things to do is "cleave" to your wife. Without a closeness, you'll lose connection, and that's when women typically want out.
> 
> Women are more like cruise ships that take a long time to turn around. And each act of love is measured the same whether large (diamond earrings) or small (a thoughtful card).
> 
> So your action plan would look something like this:
> - get her to stay
> - start loving her every day, even when she doesn't deserve it
> - do all the "little things"
> - be incredibly patient and wait a long time
> - be the best "you" - fit, patient, fun, great dad, clean, sober, organized...
> 
> One day things will click and when she looks back and sees all you have done for her, she'll run back to you like the prodigal son. Right now your role is to be like the father, waiting with open arms and unconditional love. You may also find yourself feeling like the older brother (resentful because you "don't deserve this").
> 
> It is a long and arduous journey, but will be worth it in the end.


It’s more likely that she will decide that Mike is a great father to their kids,a great provider and homemaker,and she will feel free to carry on the affair that I am more and more convinced she is having. 
This is a problem that isn’t going to be solved until Mike’s wife starts pulling her weight in this marriage and Mike himself starts to put his own needs first for a change.
I am of the opinion that if she leaves then Mike should file,citing abandonment if necessary.


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## Chaparral

Unless the stats have changed recently and I doubt that, your chances of now saving the marriage is only 1 in 5. Separation is devastating to marriage. 

Unfortunately, these threads are littered with wives that are the victims of rape and child sex abuse that go on to have affairs and destroy their own families. You should use all means you can afford to investigate this the best option being a private eye. 

The typical relationship starts out great, then marriage and after the kids start coming the CSA survivor starts projecting her abusers actions on to her husband. When did your relationship start going south? For whatever reason, the wife then finds another man that is not tainted and can be her romantic interest.

In any event, whether or not this is the case, get the books MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER, NO MORE MISTER NICE GUY , free download, HOLD ON TO YOUR NUTS, and NOT JUST FRIENDS. 

Look up the 180 to prepare yourself for what is almost inevitable. Sometimes it even has the effect of showing the wayward wife what she is losing. The goal however is to be strong for yourself and your family.

How is you son doing?


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## Chaparral

Btw, who does she say abused and raped her? When?


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## Mikefromaus

Chaparral said:


> Btw, who does she say abused and raped her? When?


Her grandfather was the CSA abuser (now dead) and a friend of her sisters boyfriend was the rapist (never charged)


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## Mikefromaus

Chaparral said:


> Unless the stats have changed recently and I doubt that, your chances of now saving the marriage is only 1 in 5. Separation is devastating to marriage.
> 
> Unfortunately, these threads are littered with wives that are the victims of rape and child sex abuse that go on to have affairs and destroy their own families. You should use all means you can afford to investigate this the best option being a private eye.
> 
> The typical relationship starts out great, then marriage and after the kids start coming the CSA survivor starts projecting her abusers actions on to her husband. When did your relationship start going south? For whatever reason, the wife then finds another man that is not tainted and can be her romantic interest.
> 
> In any event, whether or not this is the case, get the books MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER, NO MORE MISTER NICE GUY , free download, HOLD ON TO YOUR NUTS, and NOT JUST FRIENDS.
> 
> Look up the 180 to prepare yourself for what is almost inevitable. Sometimes it even has the effect of showing the wayward wife what she is losing. The goal however is to be strong for yourself and your family.
> 
> How is you son doing?


Son is getting better councilling and seems much better

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## Mikefromaus

turnera said:


> I didn't see where you explained what the trauma was that you caused. Please explain.


Apparently wanting to have sex with my wife was traumatizing. Arguing with her. And I had anger issues which have been dealt with a long time ago.

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## turnera

Ok, so she's just using excuses to control you and get her way. Ignore her. Do what you want to do.


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