# Are the children of WS damaged also?



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

As we all know infidelity damages more than the BS but the entire family. I was wondering about the children of WS - who are old enough to undertand - how does it effect their future relationships? For example if a son knows his mother cheated is he less trusting of women? If his dad cheated does he think its ok? Same for th daughter of a WS. It just seems the fallout is tremendous. :scratchhead:


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## GBValley (Jun 23, 2013)

Good question. My dad had an affair when I was about 11. My mum and the church fellowship fought to save the marriage, eventually he chose to go with other woman. Family split. I can't speak for my older brother or younger sister but for me it made me _very insecure_, no stability, our family was the gossip of the community and it was pure crap. I was fully aware of what was going on. I built up a solid wall around me that I wouldn't open up properly to anyone emotionally because I was afraid of getting hurt. I didn't trust people. I've done my best to overcome it by myself but now realize and accept you need counselling, and I am quite annoyed my parents didn't give us that opportunity.

All I know is seeing my mum go through this hard time and the mess my selfish dad caused I knew I would never put anyone through that pain. I've always had a thing about bringing back honor to my family name. Unfortunately my selfish wife who I opened up to more than anyone betrayed me and left me for OM and now I am jaded. I've had to "resort" to counselling and in a way its great because emotionally my future is brighter.
Since my wife did the same as my dad I have ceased contact with him and let him know clearly that he hasn't made proper amends and the elephant in the room (no one acknowledging what he did) is no longer there, I don't respect him and I find it hard to say I love him.

So yes it does screw you up if you are at that age I know for sure.

btw he is alone now and he bloody well deserves to be. Just because you are unhappy do not blame it on your marriage!


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

In some cases the kids grow up to mimic the behavior even though they despise it. Look at Tiki Barber former NFL running back. Him and his twin brother Ronde always hated that their father abandoned them and their mother for someone else. What does Tiki do? He cheats on his wife and files for divorce when she is pregnant with twins. The exact same thing!


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> As we all know infidelity damages more than the BS but the entire family. I was wondering about the children of WS - who are old enough to undertand - how does it effect their future relationships? For example if a son knows his mother cheated is he less trusting of women? If his dad cheated does he think its ok? Same for th daughter of a WS. It just seems the fallout is tremendous. :scratchhead:


Depends on how old they are when it happened, what they know about it, how they were or are raised, the reactions and responses they see from their parents about it, how they are treated after, etc., etc. 

Yes, I think they have to be damaged somehow. Some more than others. I would not let that deter me from a relationship with a woman who has children and is divorced, if I were in the market. If you get to that stage, it's more about how you handle yourself around the wife or husband and the children. They will naturally compare you to their mum/dad, the new relationship to the old.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

My MIL did such a good job of gas-lighting and blame-shifting, along with my wife's aunt.. that they convinced everyone that it was all for the best, that they had the good kind of affairs, that benefit everyone involved. This is a strong message to send your children... that in some cases, an affair is okay...


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

My dad was a serial cheat. My parents divorced when I was 10 over my dad's affairs and substance abuse. I learned 1st hand how devastating cheating can be to a relationship. I saw the pain my mom went through. 

It was a difficult thing to process in my teens. But as I got older and more mature, I knew my dad did some scummy things and I started to do whatever I could to not be like him. I've built some pretty ridged boundaries for myself. I definitely have his addictive personality, that has led me down dark paths more than once, but when I recognize it I pull out quickly (Porn and Video games became such problems for me that I had to quit both).

My wife betrayed me online with a couple of dudes, and I found out about it a year ago. We are working on R. It's been very painful for me. Between the pain of that discovery and some transference of childhood trauma on top if it, I've been a real mess.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

My oldest 13 has been lashing out at his mother.

He plays on a nationally ranked soccer team and she has taken him to 2 practices in the past 8 months. She has called the police on my boys twice because they refuse to do what she wants. She wanted my kids to sleep over my next door neighbor's house whom she is with now. My two oldest refused and she called the police on them.

Do they have trauma and drama? Absolutely. Is it hard? Absolutely. I can't hide them from the pain or shield them from what happened but I will support them and teach them that things never had to be like this.  They know right from wrong and they stand their ground. I wish to God they would never had had to go through this mess but since they are in it, I am proud of how they are handling it.

Is their childhood stolen? Yes a bit. I will constantly teach them to be strong and do the right thing. I know they will be affected but hopefully we can take a lot of the pain and turn it into something decent.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

From personal experience I know of the children of 2 cheaters who went on to do it themselves and wanted to see if my experience was unique. In one case both the dads sons cheated after seeing what it did to their mom. It always confused me since they were both on their moms side during the whole fiasco. I was stunned.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Our only child, my son, was 22 on Dday and was living with us at the time. I knew I had to have a conversation with him about what she did. I had that conversation with him even before I confronted her, because I wanted him to know why she would be getting out of bed and leaving the house in the next 15 minutes.

I was very careful not to frame her as a bad mother. In fact, I emphasized that she had been a wonderful mother to him and not to judge her as his mom. He is very close to her, much more than me. 

I only gave him the basic facts, none of the gory details. I also told him that we would "probably" be divorcing. A week later, I decided to give R a shot.

Has it affected him? I hope not. I haven't seen any negative effects yet. In all honesty, I have worried about him losing respect for me for not divorcing her (to date). She certainly would have deserved it. 

But at the same time, it showed him that some A's can be worked through with hard work and a remorseful spouse. He sees us with an improved marriage in all other regards. I hope that ultimately, that's a positive; but only time will tell.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> From personal experience I know of the children of 2 cheaters who went on to do it themselves and wanted to see if my experience was unique. In one case both the dads sons cheated after seeing what it did to their mom. It always confused me since they were both on their moms side during the whole fiasco. I was stunned.


My FIL was floored that his daughter would do to me what his wife (her mother) did to him, since she saw it first hand. People learn what they see when they are growing up.. If you did some research, you'd probably find out the grandad cheated too. In my wifes case, the grandma (married to a doormat) was always sneaking around with the 'love of her life', who was married to the love of his life... So yea, it's a pattern I pray to god my daughters can break. Hopefully the way we are handling this as parents right now is showing that this isn't something that's okay.. it's something that is painful and devastating, not acceptable.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

russell28 said:


> My FIL was floored that his daughter would do to me what his wife (her mother) did to him, since she saw it first hand. People learn what they see when they are growing up.. If you did some research, you'd probably find out the grandad cheated too. In my wifes case, the grandma (married to a doormat) was always sneaking around with the 'love of her life', who was married to the love of his life... So yea, it's a pattern I pray to god my daughters can break. Hopefully the way we are handling this as parents right now is showing that this isn't something that's okay.. it's something that is painful and devastating, not acceptable.


Bingo - the dad who cheated his father was an adulterer as well.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Yes, I fear for my kids. My WW's Father cheated, her mother did a RA. Her grandparents cheated. 

I think my eldest child has his suspicions, and all of them knew the marriage was really rocky for a good year. We are in R and they do now see all those little things like notes, dates, etc. I just fear that they learned 'cheating' might be a path to force changes in a relationship.


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## redtulips (Jul 22, 2012)

That's a good question truthseeker... the potential for damage is there. I would be worried about my children knowing their role model cheated... it would be a tricky situation at best.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Afraid so. Our children were ages 12 and 16 when their dad had his mid-life crisis from H*LL. They are now 19 and 23 and have plenty of issues. The oldest is still a student and doesn't even bother with relationships. He now jokingly talks about how his dad went off the deep end. One of our daughters picks losers to date and keeps them around for a couple of years. Oh, and she told me card shopping for Father's Day is next to impossible. Hallmark doesn't quite have a card that rings true for this father. All the current cards would be nothing but a bunch of lies. She went down the list once--pathetic but hilarious. The other daughter can't get her life together no matter how hard everyone tries. She is NEGATIVE, depressed, keeps a boyfriend about two weeks, changes jobs often, and college isn't a bright spot either.

The above mess is only the emotional side of things. The financial side of this is just as bleak. That has been really hard on the children. They know their dad squandered a small fortune on women and partying. They also know he is the reason our family home was foreclosed on. Now they don't even really have a place to call home.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

It's hard on them, but children are strong or need to be taught to be strong. My boys see me falter, fail, and struggle all the time and it's ok.

They have issues with their mom, but she needs to address it. Having a beautiful girlfriend that gives them hugs and mommies them has really helped.

Counseling has helped. What helps the most is I spend lots of time with them to help ease their pain but whenever they want to go with their friends I let them.

Also we are hiking the 2186 miles of the Appalachian Trail in sections. I know there are a lot of times when they are sad but I do not allow them to pity themselves. People who are destined to do great things in their life don't need pity they need someone to remind them that they are great and are meant for great things.

They aren't perfect and they are scarred but you know what, it's really going to be ok.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

I was around 22 years old when I found out about my Dad's affair. My Mom called and told me. It had been going on for about 3 years when the OW came to the front door and confronted my Mom. She was totally blindsided. My Dad threw the OW under the bus and asked my Mom to take him back. My parents went to MC and will be married for 50 years next month. 

I've never stopped loving my Dad but I was extremely disappointed in him. I mean, he was/is a really awesome Dad and what he did was so hard to comprehend. I remember thinking, "By having a MLC and an affair, my Dad has now become a cliche". I thought he was better than that. What he did to my Mom was bad but the lying too. He told us that on Wednesday nights he was teaching a course at a community college. I was so proud of him. Nope, that was his hookup night with the OW. My Dad apologized to me and my brother and since my Mom took him back, I pretty much rug-swept it and forgot about it, until ...

About a year ago it all came back to me. The reason I think it did, was because my husband and I turned the age that my Dad was when he had his affair. Also, I think my insecurities from being in my late forties didn't help, aging, wondering if my husband still finds me attractive, etc. My Dad's OW was probably 10 years younger than my mom. That must have been a self-esteem killer for her. Another factor that played in was I had been a SAHM for 7 years and I always felt vulnerable about it. Except for those 7 years, I always worked outside the home. While my mom loved my Dad, she really didn't have any choice but to take him back. She has never worked outside the home. She would've received alimony for sure but she wouldn't have been able to stay in the house she loved.

I really started to freak out. My husband never in 23 years given me any reason to double his fidelity but I started checking his email, his phone and the phone bill. Using Find My Friends on my phone to verify his whereabouts. He spends a huge amount of time on his computer and phone gaming. Was he really gaming? I started to analyze my Dad's life at the time of his affair and comparing to my husband's. My Dad had a lot going on, he almost died in a car accident and the death of both parents. All this happened about a year before the affair started, plus just the constant stress of running his own business plus my mom isn't always the easiest person to live with. 

When comparing my Dad and my husband, they are nothing alike. I think my Dad is "nice guy" as described in the book NMMNG. My husband is definitely not. If we want to use the terms used here, I would say he has a good mixture of Alpha and Beta qualities with high morals. When my husband found out about the digging around his phone and email, (which he was totally okay withm he had nothing to hide), he was kind of stunned, like "What the heck is going on?" I think he was a little hurt, like he couldn't believe that I could think he would do something like that. We've had some great talks about it, (just had one yesterday), and I know he is very proud of our marriage, especially when we see other marriages around us falling apart. 

So last year it was a 3 or 4 months of crazy insecurity and then a lot of self reflection, connecting the dots back to my Dad's affair. Things are good now.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

Soccermom... good for you! We all have scars. We just need to learn how to manage them... Your husband seems like a decent guy! Good for you.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Oh, and I wanted to add that my brother was 18 when we found out. I don't know how it affected him. We don't talk about it but he has never married and has never had a serious relationship that we know of. He's turning 45 next week.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I think that kids CAN be damaged by infidelity by their parents, just like they can be damaged by any other dysfuntionality. But how the parents handle it, if they try to get help for their children to understand what happened, etc will all play a part. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

MovingAhead said:


> Soccermom... good for you! We all have scars. We just need to learn how to manage them... Your husband seems like a decent guy! Good for you.


Thank you. 

I think in the past year I started having a mini-MLC. Not a "I'm going to have an affair" MLC but more of a "self-reflection, improving myself, figuring out why I do the things I do, making my life better," MLC. All those things include my husband and kids lives too.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

soccermom2three said:


> Thank you.
> 
> I think in the past year I started having a mini-MLC. Not a "I'm going to have an affair" MLC but more of a "self-reflection, improving myself, figuring out why I do the things I do, making my life better," MLC. All those things include my husband and kids lives too.


Thanks for your story - infidelty seems to pop up decades later - even if the parties have ceased misbehaving. It still astounds me how absolutely life altering it is.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

soccermom2three said:


> I think in the past year I started having a mini-MLC. Not a "I'm going to have an affair" MLC but more of a "self-reflection, improving myself, figuring out why I do the things I do, making my life better," MLC. All those things include my husband and kids lives too.


Thank you for sharing your story, soccermom. Although, it is painful for me to read, because I was the WS in my own marriage, it really helped me understand how vital it is that I am as pro-active in helping my children heal from my infidelity as I have been in helping my BS heal. My BS and I have not rug swept my 15 month EA/PA by any means. It ended 14 months ago and I have worked very hard and continue to do the heavy lifting associated with helping my husband heal from my infidelity and he and I have both worked very hard to deal with the previously unresolved issues that existed in our marriage prior to my infidelity. We have both owned our failures and shortcomings in our marriage and have worked together to build a new happier, healthier and more successful union. 

We have spoken openly to our young adult children, who range in age from 18 to 26, with the oldest being our only daughter. We've been very forthcoming with them about the challenges in our marriage and have given them the opportunity to ask whatever questions they feel the need to ask, even regarding my infidelity. They can clearly see and appreciate the vast difference in our relationship today as compared to the relationship that our marriage had slowly disintegrated into over the years. But, after reading your post, I realized that the children may be far less likely to continue bringing up their feelings of hurt, disappointment, confusion, anger, etc., because they might fear that discussing it or asking more questions about it could "rock the boat." Much the same way that people will quit asking about deceased loved ones after a while. Although, people often fear that asking questions about painful subjects stirs up more pain, in reality, it can be extremely healing.

I, now, realize how important it is that WS's learn not to rug sweep the long term effects that infidelity has on our children and not just our BS's. After reading TAM for over a year, one of the many things that I have learned is that the old saying "Time heals all wounds" has proven not to hold true when the wounds are left untreated. I don't have all of the answers, but I am going to get very busy trying to find them. I cannot undo what has already been done. No matter how much I wish that I could change history and make a difference choice that is simply not possible. But, I will continue to strive, everyday, to make a better future for my husband, my children and myself.

Thank you for a very enlightening post.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

I've learned a lot from TAM but man can it be emotionally exhausting at times. Soccermom - thanks again...


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

Are the children damaged?
A better question would be: Who isn't damaged by an affair? 

I was 20 when I was thrust into the middle of the problem. I turned 21 a few weeks ago. Still living with the parents, and I was perfectly aware of what was going on, and why they were really divorcing. 

My dad cheated. Do I think it is ok for a man to cheat? Hell NO!!! There are no excuses for it. If you are unhappy, divorce, then go have meaningless sex. Or better yet, don't get married. 
My relationship with my dad right now is strained?
I haven't talked to him for almost 2 months. And he missed my birthday. My 21st birthday. He was out of town with his 'girlfriend' and I don't remember getting a card or a message or anything.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Broken at 20 said:


> Are the children damaged?
> A better question would be: Who isn't damaged by an affair?
> 
> I was 20 when I was thrust into the middle of the problem. I turned 21 a few weeks ago. Still living with the parents, and I was perfectly aware of what was going on, and why they were really divorcing.
> ...


I'm sorry for your situation - how has this effected the way you look at relationships?


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

Great question! Both of my parents were cheaters. They cheated on one another and mom went onto marry and divorce two more times. Adultery (hers, theirs, or both) was a MAJOR factor in all three marriages. Dad never remarried but had poor boundaries with women and relationship; he passed away a couple years ago. 

The impact on me has been the ability to trust men. My husband of 20+ years cheated on me so THAT reinforcement hasn't helped matters at all. If WS and I end up divorced, I don't see myself choosing marriage ever again. I've been married twice, divorced once, then this. I'm sure there are good, faithful men out there and it's easy to say "I'll never...." but I really don't have the energy for this anymore. I'm also concerned about ever being able to trust a man, any man, after this. Seems like it would be easier to take care of myself than to have to wonder about another person and if they'll cheat too. I don't blame men as a whole and I realize my issues are my own, I just don't think I can allow myself to be vulnerable again. Too much effort for not enough in return. FWIW, my mom is old now and still thinks cheating is ok.... as long as it's her as the cheater not the cheatee. Sick, IMO anyway.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I'm sorry for your situation - how has this effected the way you look at relationships?


I don't trust people. Plain and simple. 
I don't care if you are an ex-felon or a pastor, I don't trust you until you prove I can. 

I can't know what is going on in someone's head. I can only know what is going on in my head. 

And I have been shafted over enough at work and home to learn to not trust people, even when they make promises to you. 
So unless I trust someone, I don't go out of my way to help them. 

If you meant how I view relationships with the opposite sex, I see dating as just that, dating. I see marriage as a trap. 
I've seen several horror stories here of how wives cheat then try to take their husbands to the cleaners. Or the wives that cheat and then have a child that is the product of the affair. And don't tell me that percentage is low, because I got that in my blood. 
Also seen plenty of men that cheat, and then leave their wives of 20+ years for some random woman. They seem to think that their life is just perfect with this new woman, and forget they have children, and a relationship that they spent 20+ years building, and destroyed in just 5 minutes. 

And when 50% of marriages fail, and women are cheating just as much as men are, I don't feel any particular rush (or even a draw) to get married. 

Dating, I have no problem with.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> As we all know infidelity damages more than the BS but the entire family. I was wondering about the children of WS - who are old enough to undertand - how does it effect their future relationships? For example if a son knows his mother cheated is he less trusting of women? If his dad cheated does he think its ok? Same for th daughter of a WS. It just seems the fallout is tremendous. :scratchhead:


I'm worried about this. My kids are 5 and 8 - the older one knows mom did something wrong. She says she's going to tell them one day. My biggest concern in all of this is my kids, and how this will affect them. Because it will, inevitably. 

Honestly it really bothers me that their mother is so white trash, and basically a wh*re. Because they love their mom. But what does what she's done teach them about life and marriage? For that, I will never forgive her. I can get past what she did to me, but not to them.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Healer said:


> I'm worried about this. My kids are 5 and 8 - the older one knows mom did something wrong. She says she's going to tell them one day. My biggest concern in all of this is my kids, and how this will affect them. Because it will, inevitably.
> 
> Honestly it really bothers me that their mother is so white trash, and basically a wh*re. Because they love their mom. But what does what she's done teach them about life and marriage? For that, I will never forgive her. I can get past what she did to me, but not to them.


Infidelity touches everyone in the WS life - I don't think many WS fully realize the magnitude of what they have done.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Broken at 20 said:


> I don't trust people. Plain and simple.
> I don't care if you are an ex-felon or a pastor, I don't trust you until you prove I can.
> 
> I can't know what is going on in someone's head. I can only know what is going on in my head.
> ...


Have you done any counseling for this?


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> Truthseeker1
> I was wondering about the children of WS - who are old enough to undertand - how does it effect their future relationships? For example if a son knows his mother cheated is he less trusting of women?


Let me give you a real life situation. My wife cheated and it devastated my teen age son and daughter. Daughter (15) moved out, son (18) got into marijuana big time and dropped out of school. Did her cheating play a part in that? Yes.

What happened the next 20 years?

Daughter moved back in with us then got married and started her family. She celebrated her 20th anniversary last year. They have their troubles but it is not because of trust.
Son got a woman with two children pregnant and wanted to marry her, she refused. Son married another woman and had a daughter. His wife cheated on him and they divorced.
Son married a woman that is a missionary daughter with two children. They have their troubles but it is not because of trust

Just based on my 20 year observation I would say that my children were severely affected in the first few years. I stopped worrying about their affect after10-15 years. They are adults and have to learn to take some real big hits in this world just like everybody else. I will say this; my children do not use the WS as an excuse for any troubles they have and they are right to feel that way. *I just do not buy into that excuse that someone hurt me 15 years ago so I cannot get rid of my baggage.*

Frankly I think that a 30 year old using a WS as an excuse after 15 years is a cop out. I have told my wife that her A was over 15 years ago and she has proven for 15 years that she loves her children and has not even come close to another A. *Any personal problems that my children have after 15 years are not the WS fault and that goes for me also!*

Have they taken a hard hit? YES 
Can they do something to improve the hit? YES


I do not expect a teen ager to be able to get over most of the pain and problems with trust but I do expect that to not be a huge problem when you have 15 yeas under your belt and are over 30 years old. As far as the trust issue goes you need to use a little discernment and common sense. It is your job to find someone that has proven for years that they have good strength in the trust department. Then you trust them with the degree of trust that they have proven in the past. Yes, I know, even then they can break the trust but you have to take a chance with trust to a degree if you do not want to be a suspicious recluse.



*None of my children have a serious trust issue. That is because my wife and I have takes our hits in life, taken actions to improve the hits, and trusted God for the rest that we cannot do.* That is all you can do and in our case it is satisfactory. I can understand those children that have parents that do not take the right steps will have a rougher time of it but you cannot blame our parents for the rest of your lives. If you really want to and do the actions you can improve your situation so that you can have a degree of trust in some people.

I have been cheated on by a woman and I trust another woman to a degree of 99%. That woman has proven her trustworthy to me for over 50 years. 

Parents , WS, and everybody else that screws up royally, you can rectify that screw up to a significant degree if you are willing to do the right things. *Just because you screw up royally you do not have to run around feeling guilty for every failure that your children have after they are adults!!! *




Blunt


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Have you done any counseling for this?


Is that a joke?
I am 21. What do I need counseling for?

And how can I get my hands on $100 that I can then use to pay to talk to someone. 
I don't make that much, and I am not paying $100 to do that. I could go to a bar and order crappy drinks, and talk to the bartender, and it would be cheaper than a counselor. 

Besides, what is wrong with my views? 
I would say not trusting people is being smart. I've been shafted over by my dad, and my bosses. At work I was promised I could ask for, and receive, 40 hours a week. Now, due to the health care laws, and the owners being greedy, I am getting only 28 hours a week. My dad betrayed my mother of 25+ years. And he openly flaunts his affair. Well, I guess it isn't an affair any more. 

What else about it? Marriage? 
I see it as it is. It is dangerous. My mother is getting almost nothing after investing 25 years with a man that said he would stand with her until death do us part. 
Too bad he is living in a separate house and is divorced. 
Or for men? I can find all sorts of crap on google that shows how dangerous it is for men. 

Sure, it may sound pessimistic. 
But what does an optimistic pessimist call himself? A realist!


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Broken at 20 said:


> Is that a joke?
> I am 21. What do I need counseling for?
> 
> And how can I get my hands on $100 that I can then use to pay to talk to someone.
> ...


You seem like you have a lot to sort out - being a realist is fine and making people earn your trust is a good thing - just make sure you do not close yourself off to the good things life has to offer.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

Broken at 20 said:


> Are the children damaged?
> A better question would be: Who isn't damaged by an affair?
> 
> I was 20 when I was thrust into the middle of the problem. I turned 21 a few weeks ago. Still living with the parents, and I was perfectly aware of what was going on, and why they were really divorcing.
> ...


Brother, you dad is acting like a complete a$$. He is obviously being extremely selfish now. He either has some guilt over the betrayal or he is just stupid for missing your birthday.

Either way, don't let his bad behavior stop you from exhibiting good behavior. You meet a great girl, don't think about what your dad did and feel like it was ok. Don't get in the mindset that it was done to you so it's ok to do it to someone else. That road leads to your own destruction. Your dad is on the path to his own self destruction.

If people show that they don't care about you listen to them. They are right so believe them. Surround yourself with people who do care. He might again one day or not but don't lead your life based on his stupid actions. You grew up so be a man and not just an adult male.

I am very sorry for you brother. Your story will help remind me of what I need to teach my sons so through your pain you are actually helping 3 little boys who need guidance. Thank you for that. They need to be strong and so do you.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

MovingAhead said:


> Brother, you dad is acting like a complete a$$. He is obviously being extremely selfish now. He either has some guilt over the betrayal or he is just stupid for missing your birthday.
> 
> Either way, don't let his bad behavior stop you from exhibiting good behavior. You meet a great girl, don't think about what your dad did and feel like it was ok. Don't get in the mindset that it was done to you so it's ok to do it to someone else. That road leads to your own destruction. Your dad is on the path to his own self destruction.
> 
> ...


:iagree: *Let these circumstances make you a smart man not a bitter one*.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

I'm surprised no one has brought this up yet. But in "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass, research has shown that the odds of the kids who parents had adultery, are much higher than those who's parents did not. They 'learn' about relationships from you guys. What is being taught?


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Racer said:


> I'm surprised no one has brought this up yet. But in "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass, research has shown that the odds of the kids who parents had adultery, are much higher than those who's parents did not. They 'learn' about relationships from you guys. What is being taught?


I've witnessed this personally and the real shocker is the kids were disgusted by their parents behavior and cheated anyway! 
That defied logic to me. :scratchhead:


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> Quotes of Broken at 20
> I was 20 when I was thrust into the middle of the problem. I turned 21 a few weeks ago
> He was out of town with his 'girlfriend' and I don't remember getting a card or a message or anything


Your father is a cruel selfish punk! He may change for the better someday but your approach to him for now is probably best



> Quotes of Broken at 20
> 
> I don't care if you are an ex-felon or a pastor, I don't trust you until you prove I can.
> Besides, what is wrong with my views?
> I would say not trusting people is being smart


I do not see anything unusual about your views nor do I see your views as wrong







> I see marriage as a trap


.
Some are and you are right for around 40-50% of the population.





> I am 21. What do I need counseling for?


*Because you are 21 and have been hurt big time by your father.* 

You are only one year into dealing with some very hard hits in life and you are no where near 30 years of age. I know that many people think that a 21 year old is an adult and a seasoned person but there is a reason that you cannot be President of the USA until at lest age 35. Normally you are better equipt to deal with life at an older age. I am not patronizing you just giving you some facts. You will be a LOT better off if you take the right steps in the next 10-15 years.

You need to allow some kind of help so that you do not become overly protective and bitter so that does not affect other areas of your life. You can take the overly protective position and not take any chances and that may work for you. You could also use your views quoted above, find someone that you are willing to take a chance with and benefit from a deeper warmer relationship with some one. I am not telling you what to do just pointing out a little bit about how life works with relationships.


I have a grandson that is older than you. That does not make me wiser than Yoda but I may be able to share some thoughts with you that you maybe able to use to help yourself.

You have been shyt on big time by several people. *Resist the temptation to let the hurts dominate. Instead use the hurts to motivate you to improve yourself without hurting others*. You are young and you have a great advantage; you can use time as your ally. Don’t think that just because your life sucks right now that life cannot be a LOT better. There is a song from the 1960s by the Rolling Stones titled ‘Time Is On My Side”. That is you; time is on your side. It is up to you to make the best of it.

You are a very valuable young man. How do I know this? Because you have demonstrated some wisdom and you have come here to get help. In addition you have been hit with an emotional sledge hammer and you are not giving up, laying in the gutter, whining, and feeling sorry for yourself.

You can also benefit from other people that have nothing to gain by trying to help you. A good example is Moving Ahead and Truthseeker, see quote below




> Quote of Truthseeker
> Let these circumstances make you a smart man not a bitter one





Blunt


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Mr Blunt said:


> Your father is a cruel selfish punk! He may change for the better someday but your approach to him for now is probably best
> 
> 
> I do not see anything unusual about your views nor do I see your views as wrong
> ...




:iagree: Use this crap sandwich and turn it into something good for yourself Broken.


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## GreenThumb (Jul 5, 2013)

Broken at 20 said:


> Is that a joke?
> *I am 21. What do I need counseling for?*
> 
> And how can I get my hands on $100 that I can then use to pay to talk to someone.
> ...


Broken, 

I am the BS of WH; only 9 weeks out from DDay. I have two children both in their early twenties who are reeling from their father's A with someone we all knew (my colleague), had befriended and is only a few years older than oldest child. 

Youngest child reluctantly went to counseling at my suggestion. She is stuffing her feelings BIG time and to some extent I feel she resents that fact that I am talking to their wayward father. I kicked him out of the house on DDay and will not talk to or see him in her presence out of respect for her and the time she needs to process the betrayal. 

Please don't underestimate the need for you to talk to an objective professional. Yes, you can vent to anyone, including a bartender for free, but there are emotions that everyone affected by an A should work through, not around. Professionals can help you work through these emotions in more healthy and effective ways. If you don't, there's a good chance that those emotions will come out sideways and most likely in unhealthy ways. No one wants to sit in and work through all of the emotions an A's betrayal evokes; it's excruciatingly painful and uncomfortable, but in IMO, it must be done in order to move beyond the A and its potential side effects. I hope that no matter how you work through the A, you do it in a healthy way that brings you peace. This is what I also pray for my children. 

If only the BSs could foresee the pain they inflict on their loved ones. My WH cries every time we discuss our children because he now realizes that his children will never have the same relationship they had with him pre-A. My daughter has yet to see or speak to her father since DDay. He is a lesser man in their (and everyone's) eyes and he knows he will have to carry that knowledge and weight for the rest of his life. Pure tragedy. 

Take care of yourself.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

GreenThumb said:


> Broken,
> 
> I am the BS of WH; only 9 weeks out from DDay. I have two children both in their early twenties who are reeling from their father's A with someone we all knew (my colleague), had befriended and is only a few years older than oldest child.
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing GreenThumb...this discussion is really useful for readers to see the FULL impact of their infidelity. It bring with it utter devastation.


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

I also read somewhere about how having a cheating parent, can influence that. 

I actually watched some youtube video about it. Don't ask me what it was called, or to cite it. 
But some commentator said that kids that come from divorce homes actually feel pushed to marriage. They feel pressured, or perhaps are wanting, to find a replacement for the love they lost from their parents when they divorced. So they rush into marriage to replace it, and marrying young is a horrible idea. 
And then when they find out they married too young, the same pattern happens. They may cheat, or their spouse may cheat because they choose poorly. 
Pretty much a never-ending cycle. 

As for myself, I am closed off because I find it emotionally safer. 
It feels like my father has forgotten me. 
My mother will barely talk to me. I don't even know why! 
My work just abuses me. 

To me, it makes more sense to be emotionally closed off than to be emotionally open. People can still hurt me, but it won't be to the extent that it could have been. 


As for the meeting a nice girl and everything, I am sure that will happen some day...like when I am 24 with my job (and hopefully my CPA) and working hard. I am sure women will be interested in me THEN! 
Right now, they aren't. Most of the girls at work are dating guys that are anywhere from 2-5 years older than them. Same at school. 

But putting that aside, I still don't see what possible advantages a marriage affords me. 
Regular sex isn't one, as evidence from the Sex in marriage forum here. 
Fidelity isn't promised. And since paternity fraud is legal (and being half bastard doesn't help my view either) that doesn't make me feel very secure. 
And I could go on, but I don't want to.

I don't believe marriage is a good idea. I have gone through the pain of divorce once. I don't want to go through it again. 
And when the likelihood is 50% that I will, marriage is no gamble I am willing to take. 

Maybe I am the outlier on the experiment about kids from a divorce home.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Broken at 20 said:


> I also read somewhere about how having a cheating parent, can influence that.
> 
> I actually watched some youtube video about it. Don't ask me what it was called, or to cite it.
> But some commentator said that kids that come from divorce homes actually feel pushed to marriage. They feel pressured, or perhaps are wanting, to find a replacement for the love they lost from their parents when they divorced. So they rush into marriage to replace it, and marrying young is a horrible idea.
> ...


Broken - this is why you need to talk to a counselor - closing yourself off hurts you - it sucks the sweetness out of life. No one is telling you to marry - that is your choice. All your trauma if channeled correctly can help you become stronger and smarter. *Idealism pertaining to anything - not just marriage - is asking for trouble - at 21 you know better - you are ahead of the game in that regard.* *Trust needs to be earned not given away and not every person has your best interests at heart. These are valuable lessons that can help you to navigate life better and enjoy the good stuff more. *

You sound like you are holding in a lot of anger - I can understand why - but that anger punishes no one but you. Talk to someone - because living well is the BEST revenge. Everyone who has posted here pertaining to your situation is rooting for you! Talk to the people on this board - there is a community here willing and able to assist you.


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

At least her father didn't ask you to beg you to forgive him so he could get a second at a dying marriage. 

And I work out some of my emotions. 
I started going to the gym to pass free time my freshmen year in CC. And as my anger built up, I would just workout to relieve it. 


And here is a question:
Do you see your WH as a lesser man for having an affair? And tearing apart the family?
You don't have to answer it, but think on it. 


And I was told to be a man by everyone around me. My father told me to be a man for my mother (probably because he failed to be one). My grandparents told me to man up and take care of the family. My friends' parents told me the same damn thing. 
So I manned up. I wasn't asked how I felt, or how I was doing. I was asked what I was doing to help my mom out. What I was doing to help with the family. What I should be doing to help them out more. 

So I buried my problems. Because I was told to be a man. 
I wasn't asked what I felt. I was told what I had to do. 

I guess at 21, everyone assumes you are a man, and incapable of feeling major emotional pain. Or that you are capable of dealing with on your own after 20+ years of having it spoon fed to you from schools and parents.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Broken at 20 said:


> My mother will barely talk to me. I don't even know why!


Why don't you sit down with her and ask? I can't undestand why you don't try to reach your mom. Do you know whether she has friends to talk with at least?


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## GreenThumb (Jul 5, 2013)

Broken at 20 said:


> At least her father didn't ask you to beg you to forgive him so he could get a second at a dying marriage.
> 
> And I work out some of my emotions.
> I started going to the gym to pass free time my freshmen year in CC. And as my anger built up, I would just workout to relieve it.
> ...


Broken, 

I assume your questions are for me. If not, I apologize in advance. 

My WH appears to and acts as if he is remorseful. We are currently separated and he is waiting for me to decide if I can come back to marriage and reconcile. He, our daughter and I are all in IC; it's looking like MC in the near future. 

During one conversation WH and I had, he suggested that I had some influence over daughter's reluctance to see or speak to him. I quickly (and regretfully angrily) stood up and told him that his adulterous behavior caused the consequences. I would not and will not influence our children to think or behave any way, especially given that they are "adults," albeit young ones. I know his comment was born of hurtful frustration at feeling he's lost his children, but I will not take any responsibility for his actions and their effects on our children. 

Yes, I definitely see my WH as less of a man. He failed to resist temptation when someone young enough to be his daughter baited him. He failed to communicate his unhappiness (claimed he didn't feel I loved him anymore) and disrespected the entire family with his immoral, selfish behavior. I am an attractive, educated, strong woman who could easily walk away from him and support myself. D is still an option, but I do still love him and can't turn my back on 26 years of marriage without exploring where each of us contributed to the vulnerabilities in our marriage prior to the A. Please understand, he made and owns the responsibility to have the A, but every marriage has rich history which influences the choices of marriage partners. Life is messy and demanding; the OW capitalized on many stressors that were taking place in our lives. She literally planned her attack. Therefore, while I see him as less of a man today, he has shown me (thusfar) that he is willing to seek counseling, communicate and "do whatever I need to get you back in my life". Only time will tell. 

I'm glad that you are working out. That will help release some of the pent up frustration and anger you're experiencing as it relates to the A. I've lost 15 pounds (I call it "The Affair Diet" ) and have been running. Nothing clears the mind and releases tension like physical activity. 

As for everyone telling you to "man up"...this is a societal issue and one that creates pressure for men, young and old. Males are taught very early through family that they can be okay or angry, but rarely anything in between. Men are also programmed to be the stoic family caretakers. You HAVE emotions attached to this life event. Do not be afraid to explore them with a trusted family member or an objective counselor. This is EXACTLY why I recommended a counselor in my previous post. You may not have financial resources for typical counseling, but I would wager that there are free or low-cost alternatives available in your general area. Family members and friends always have the best intentions, but they may not be as "safe" and/or objective. If you're a person of faith, a member of the clergy is another option. I've been seeing a counselor and a priest on a regular basis since DDay. 

Please explore how you feel with someone safe and objective. I am certain that you will gain insights into how you feel and be better prepared to work through your own grief while you also support your other family members during this difficult time. IMO, THAT is "manning up". 

Again, take care of you. I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

GreenThumb said:


> Broken,
> 
> I assume your questions are for me. If not, I apologize in advance.
> 
> ...


Great post Green - I will keep you and your family in my thoughts and prayers as well.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

Broken at 20

We here at TAM will never be able to make upon for what your father has done to you emotionally. However, *I hope that you can see by the posts to you that we are very interested in how you feel and our hearts are touched by your words and your situation.*

I am not saying that we are going wave a magic wand and you will skip away singing “What a Wonderful World” But know this, we see a young man that has had his emotions raped and we want to do every thing that we can to help you. WHY? Because you are very valuable and we hate the emotional suffering that we see in you.
I am not the only one that thinks that, just read a post by Thruthseeker below



> By Truthseeker
> Everyone who has posted here pertaining to your situation is rooting for you! Talk to the people on this board - there is a community here willing and able to assist you


We are very interested in you and how you feel so if you want to you can start to vent, unload, open up, or whatever you want to do. We have all been bashed emotionally and it does our soul good to help a person like you. We also hate the injustice that has been done to a person that is innocent of his father’s betrayal. We may not have all the answers but many of us have had to wade through some pain like you have. Also, many of us can see how much better things can be despite the current pain you have. *We do not charge $100 per hour what we charge is that you be honest, if you decide to talk, so that maybe we can help.*


I am going to ask you a question and of course if you do not want to open up you can tell me to bug off.

*What was your relationship like with your mother for during your childhood?*
I ask this because it seems very odd to me that your mother will hardly talk to you.
I just do not get it. Your father cheats on your mother, you obviously take up for her, and she will hardly talk to you? *That seems real odd to me; can you explain?*



Blunt


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Mr Blunt said:


> Broken at 20
> 
> We here at TAM will never be able to make upon for what your father has done to you emotionally. However, *I hope that you can see by the posts to you that we are very interested in how you feel and our hearts are touched by your words and your situation.*
> 
> ...


Good post Blunt...


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

Mr Blunt said:


> I am going to ask you a question and of course if you do not want to open up you can tell me to bug off.
> 
> *What was your relationship like with your mother for during your childhood?*
> I ask this because it seems very odd to me that your mother will hardly talk to you.
> ...


I guess it was the same as with most mothers and their sons. Sure, we had our fights, but every parent has fights with their kids. I didn't do anything bad. I may have stayed past curfew a couple times, but I didn't drink, or do drugs. I took A.P. courses, and got good grades. She would push me to take the harder classes. 
It probably wasn't the most loving, but she raised me right. I am responsible, I know what is expected of me, and I wasn't overly coddled. 
She wasn't perfect, but no parent really is. But she at least raised me to know how to be responsible, and get things done. And I did my best in college when having to deal with divorcing parents. I graduated with over a 3.5 which should make her happy. School is almost like a second religion to her. 


I do have a couple of theories as to why she might not talk to me. 
There was a little family meeting with just me, mom, and dad. And they told me they were divorcing, and a bit of it. Their reasons for it was because I was old enough to know. And I asked if she had done the NC, and the marriage and individual counseling, and everything that I read about on this site. 
And she took it poorly, wondering how I knew about all this stuff. Maybe she thought my dad coached me, and that I had taken his side? I honestly don't know. 
The only problem with this is that I had a few physical confrontations with my father that didn't end to well. So she should've known I didn't but I can't be sure. 
And I made several other mistakes between then and now. I can't point to when it all went straight to hell. Just that it did. 

And I should probably point out I got two siblings. My brother is her little baby boy. 
And my sister is daddy's little girl. She is the only one that is still really talking to him. 

And I guess that would make me the go-between. And since both have cut me off, what does that make me now?

I do have to give my brother and sister credit though. They seem to be handling this much better than I am. But then again they are getting free counseling at school during the school year, and they each have a parent that is showering them with love.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Broken at 20 said:


> I guess it was the same as with most mothers and their sons. Sure, we had our fights, but every parent has fights with their kids. I didn't do anything bad. I may have stayed past curfew a couple times, but I didn't drink, or do drugs. I took A.P. courses, and got good grades. She would push me to take the harder classes.
> It probably wasn't the most loving, but she raised me right. I am responsible, I know what is expected of me, and I wasn't overly coddled.
> She wasn't perfect, but no parent really is. But she at least raised me to know how to be responsible, and get things done. And I did my best in college when having to deal with divorcing parents. I graduated with over a 3.5 which should make her happy. School is almost like a second religion to her.
> 
> ...


Have you talked to your mom about your feelings on how she is treating you?


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> Originally Posted by Mr Blunt
> I am going to ask you a question and of course if you do not want to open up you can tell me to bug off.
> 
> What was your relationship like with your mother for during your childhood?
> ...




I wished that I could get a message to your mother. *I would tell her that she is to embrace you, cry with you, laugh with you, and cherish you NO MATTER WHAT YOU DID! *

Why should she do this? Because it will do her heart good and will give life a much richer meaning for her. In addition, it will start to heal you. If anyone ever needed help with connecting it is your mother. I am not raging on her I know she must be hurt to the bone but nothing should separate a parent and a child. My son refused all my help and advice and rejected me and lived his life his way from age 17-27. He even stole the wedding ring that I gave his mother and he sold it for drugs. He wound up in jail and told me to get the hell out of his life. He said this because I would not allow him walk on me or his mother and had him put in jail. I would visit him and he would tell me stay at home but I did go anyway. When he got out of jail I drove the streets at night because he would be gone for months at a time and I had no idea if he was alive. I finally found him one time and went to hug him and he pushed me away and said get away from me.

I always prayed for him always tried to hug him him when ever I got to se him. He lived on the street and they told me he was dumpter diving for food when he was not in jail. I found him in the back yard one time and he was all bloody. He had been in the drug and gang area and was beaten. He bled for days but would not let me help. I tried to get him to come into the house but he stayed in a tin shed with the lawn mowers when it was over 110 degrees.

These 10 years caused me to go the heart doctor for the first time in my life. He did the entire test and my heart was perfect and he finally discovered my relationship with my son and gave me strong medications for stress. I never stopped looking for him or trying to hug him. I tried to dismiss him from my life to save myself but I could not do it. He came home in 2008 and allowed me to hug him and he has been here with me for last five years and he knows that he can stay with me for the rest of his life if he wants to.

I do not give Shyt when people tell me that I should send him out of the house because he did so many things to his mother and I. They have no idea what it like to think that your son is dead or has no love for you. They can all kiss my AZZ; I have my son with me and he hugs me, we laugh together and he touchs my heart to the very center. If he sees me needing anything he comes running. Folks this is a prodigal son story that is real in my life. He improves every year but 10 years on the street with drugs has a lot of damage to overcome.

*My message to your mom is that NO ONE will ever come close to loving her the way a child will*. She has seen what a husband will do about loving her. If she ever wants to have her heart filled she needs to reconnect with you. If she refuses then she will have a hardened heart and will wind up a bitter old woman.

*Don’t fool yourself, if you cannot love our child you cannot love anything!*
You have my permission to send this post to your mother if you want.

You are a valuable person and you can make it without your mother reconnecting to you but you will have a small hole in your heart. I am betting that your mother, if given the right therapy, will reconnect with you and stop the molesting of your emotions.

*I know I am using strong language but if a parent fails to love their child then they have failed a life!*

I cannot believe that you mother does not love you. She maybe so hurt that she is paralyzed


Blunt


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## GreenThumb (Jul 5, 2013)

Broken, 

I couldn't agree more with Blunt's last post. As a mother and BW, everything he said resonates with me. Please take what he offers to heart as you heal. Know that we're all here to support you and feel free to PM me with any specific questions you may have. 


Given that you are the same age as my youngest, your postings inform me as to what my own children may be feeling. Even though we're both here for fairly tragic reasons, we're learning from and supporting each other :smthumbup: Could that be making lemonade from lemons? 

(Hug)


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## Memento (Aug 23, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> As we all know infidelity damages more than the BS but the entire family. I was wondering about the children of WS - who are old enough to undertand - how does it effect their future relationships? For example if a son knows his mother cheated is he less trusting of women? If his dad cheated does he think its ok? Same for th daughter of a WS. It just seems the fallout is tremendous. :scratchhead:


It affects children tremendously. I grew up seeing my dad cheat my mom all the time. I even listened to him calling those women. And I even met one, once. It was heart crushing that that person, that should respect and cherish his own children and wife, showed so much disrespect and lack of love. He used to come home late at night and spend the night calling us all sorts of foul names. Sometimes, he used to hit my mom. That was the worst! It was torture.

I'm not going to blame my dad for the mistakes I did. I don't think it would be fair. But, he did ruined my childhood to a great extent.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Memento said:


> It affects children tremendously. I grew up seeing my dad cheat my mom all the time. I even listened to him calling those women. And I even met one, once. It was heart crushing that that person, that should respect and cherish his own children and wife, showed so much disrespect and lack of love. He used to come home late at night and spend the night calling us all sorts of foul names. Sometimes, he used to hit my mom. That was the worst! It was torture.
> 
> I'm not going to blame my dad for the mistakes I did. I don't think it would be fair. But, he did ruined my childhood to a great extent.


Memento - thank you for sharing your perspective as the child of a WS - the more I read and from what I've seen in my own life infidelity is the COMPLETE betrayal of EVERYONE in the family and the adulterer leaves scars on everyone that last a lifetime. Infidelity really is an evil act the more I think about it.


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## Memento (Aug 23, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Memento - thank you for sharing your perspective as the child of a WS - the more I read and from what I've seen in my own life infidelity is the COMPLETE betrayal of EVERYONE in the family and the adulterer leaves scars on everyone that last a lifetime. Infidelity really is an evil act the more I think about it.


It is. But some adulterers recognize their mistake and are capable of change. Some never do.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Memento said:


> It is. But some adulterers recognize their mistake and are capable of change. Some never do.


Agreed but the damage is already done - and that is the tragedy of it all.


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## Memento (Aug 23, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Agreed but the damage is already done - and that is the tragedy of it all.


People are capable of forgiveness and can overcome trauma.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Memento said:


> People are capable of forgiveness and can overcome trauma.


Agreed but the scars do last a lifetime for many.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Agreed but the scars do last a lifetime for many.


... along with multiple other scars we get since childs.
I don't brag about my scars but don't deny them either. They teach us.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Acabado said:


> ... along with multiple other scars we get since childs.
> I don't brag about my scars but don't deny them either. They teach us.


But this is a scar inflicted upon the child by a parent....


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## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

I'm sure that all children are affected by infidelity and divorce in some way...some more than others.

My XWW cheated on me for about two years. Our 12 and 15 year old children don't know what she did but they know she did something. I discovered what was going on back in early 2011 and filed for divorce a year later after trying to make it work. It was final in January 2013. Since 2012 they have definitely changed. They have become more withdrawn and spend much more time in there rooms. They don't want to go out very often. They even wear black most of the time now and their grades have slipped quite a bit. I don't know how they will be effected long term but I am working hard to make sure they deal with everything in a healthy way.

My XWW's parents were divorced. Her father was a cheater, a drinker, and looked for every excuse to be out. Her mother had also cheated. After their divorce, her mother was out at the bars very regularly hooking up with men. This is what my XWW grew up with as an example of how parents act. Her sister grew up in the same house but has never cheated on her husband. In fact, she is a very religious and God fearing woman. 

Point is...two sisters, exposed to the same examples, turned out very different. 

I guess I just married the wrong one.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Decimated said:


> I'm sure that all children are affected by infidelity and divorce in some way...some more than others.
> 
> My XWW cheated on me for about two years. Our 12 and 15 year old children don't know what she did but they know she did something. I discovered what was going on back in early 2011 and filed for divorce a year later after trying to make it work. It was final in January 2013. Since 2012 they have definitely changed. They have become more withdrawn and spend much more time in there rooms. They don't want to go out very often. They even wear black most of the time now and their grades have slipped quite a bit. I don't know how they will be effected long term but I am working hard to make sure they deal with everything in a healthy way.
> 
> ...


Is your XW close to her parents? Did she model them?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

My former step kids were 13 and 15 when my ex divorced their mom, due to her cheating and drug abuse over several years. He also cheated on her for a few years during their marriage as well. We married quickly then he divorced me in less than a year to go back to her. (yes, cheating on me with her) Follow so far? 

When they were reconciling, she was still having sex with two other men. He found out, she tried to kill herself, they stayed together. Now this scenario played out a good four times over about a six month time span. The last couple of times, he had fooled me into believing that we were getting back together, so they knew he had been with me too. (the kids are 15 and 17 now) The kids had told my ex that they did NOT want their mother around, but he kept insisting that she needed help, and she could change, blah blah blah. So she finally made it through rehab and they are still together. 

The 17 year old daughter has serious issues. She never talks about her true feelings, she lies all the time. You never know where she really stands on anything. (She did tell me how much she didnt want her mom around any more at one point). So, she had this boyfriend that she had been with for several months. They broke up because she caught him cheating. She literally WALKED IN on this kid in bed having sex with another girl. So what has she done? She has gotten back together with him, and is gushing all over social media about "her love" and how awesome he is, and how much she loves him, etc. AND, guess who else is gushing all over FB how happy he is to have his best friend back, and how much he loves her...? MY EX, her dad! So essentially what he has taught his kids is that its ok to cheat, its ok for someone to cheat on YOU...if you think you love them, then they can sh!t all over you and you are supposed to stay. Jury is still out on the 15yo son.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> My former step kids were 13 and 15 when my ex divorced their mom, due to her cheating and drug abuse over several years. He also cheated on her for a few years during their marriage as well. We married quickly then he divorced me in less than a year to go back to her. (yes, cheating on me with her) Follow so far?
> 
> When they were reconciling, she was still having sex with two other men. He found out, she tried to kill herself, they stayed together. Now this scenario played out a good four times over about a six month time span. The last couple of times, he had fooled me into believing that we were getting back together, so they knew he had been with me too. (the kids are 15 and 17 now) The kids had told my ex that they did NOT want their mother around, but he kept insisting that she needed help, and she could change, blah blah blah. So she finally made it through rehab and they are still together.
> 
> The 17 year old daughter has serious issues. She never talks about her true feelings, she lies all the time. You never know where she really stands on anything. (She did tell me how much she didnt want her mom around any more at one point). So, she had this boyfriend that she had been with for several months. They broke up because she caught him cheating. She literally WALKED IN on this kid in bed having sex with another girl. So what has she done? She has gotten back together with him, and is gushing all over social media about "her love" and how awesome he is, and how much she loves him, etc. AND, guess who else is gushing all over FB how happy he is to have his best friend back, and how much he loves her...? MY EX, her dad! So essentially what he has taught his kids is that its ok to cheat, its ok for someone to cheat on YOU...if you think you love them, then they can sh!t all over you and you are supposed to stay. Jury is still out on the 15yo son.


They sound like an absolute mess....


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> They sound like an absolute mess....


Yes, they ARE a mess. As much as I am still heartbroken, I cant tell you what a relief it is to be free from their drama. I just really feel bad for the kids, there is no parenting going on in that house, and hasnt been for years.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> Yes, they ARE a mess. As much as I am still heartbroken, I cant tell you what a relief it is to be free from their drama. I just really feel bad for the kids, there is no parenting going on in that house, and hasnt been for years.


For some people I think cheating is like a drug, an addiction and they do not care who they hurt in the process....


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## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Is your XW close to her parents? Did she model them?


She as very close to her mom until she died. They talked everyday. Her mother loved me and was always telling my Ex that she was lucky to have me and to take good care of me almost as if she feared my Ex would do what she eventually did. Her mother remarried and found Christ many years ago and ended her bad behavior. 

She was not close to her father but in recent years was trying to build a relationship with him. She told me many times that she despised her father growing up because of the way he treated her mom. In fact, her and her sister begged their mother to divorce him...which she did.

After her father died, my Ex became just like him...what she despised, not like her mother, whom she loved.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Decimated said:


> She as very close to her mom until she died. They talked everyday. Her mother loved me and was always telling my Ex that she was lucky to have me and to take good care of me almost as if she feared my Ex would do what she eventually did. Her mother remarried and found Christ many years ago and ended her bad behavior.
> 
> She was not close to her father but in recent years was trying to build a relationship with him. She told me many times that she despised her father growing up because of the way he treated her mom. In fact, her and her sister begged their mother to divorce him...which she did.
> 
> After her father died, my Ex became just like him...what she despised, not like her mother, whom she loved.


How do you think this will effect your children?


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## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

Truthseeker1 said:


> How do you think this will effect your children?


I honestly don't know. They are now children of a broken home. They have 2 examples to follow. I do hope that they use my example of honesty and integrity as a model for their lives. Divorce is something they have survived and I fear it will be considered as an option in their futures if their future marriages become rough. I never experienced divorce in my family. My parents have been married for 51 years. My kids don't know about XWW's cheating yet, at least I don't think they do, but it is inevitable that they will find out. When they do, it could be also considered as an option in their futures as well. This is where FOO issues come from. I hoped that XWW would break the cycle but it's all about her.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Decimated said:


> I honestly don't know. They are now children of a broken home. They have 2 examples to follow. I do hope that they use my example of honesty and integrity as a model for their lives. Divorce is something they have survived and I fear it will be considered as an option in their futures if their future marriages become rough. I never experienced divorce in my family. My parents have been married for 51 years. My kids don't know about XWW's cheating yet, at least I don't think they do, but it is inevitable that they will find out. When they do, it could be also considered as an option in their futures as well. This is where FOO issues come from. I hoped that XWW would break the cycle but it's all about her.


Selfish behavior destroys innocent lives....


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Has anyone had to put their children in counseling because of a spouses infidelity?


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## Memento (Aug 23, 2012)

Acabado said:


> ... along with multiple other scars we get since childs.
> I don't brag about my scars but don't deny them either. They teach us.


Emotional, mental and/or physical torment are often taught to its victims. And, often, they themselves become the abuser. That was a "teaching" I could have lived without.

ps.- I don't torment anyone. I just feel a sadness that it doesn't seem to go away no matter how long it was.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Memento said:


> Emotional, mental and/or physical torment are often taught to its victims. And, often, they themselves become the abuser. That was a "teaching" I could have lived without.
> 
> ps.- I don't torment anyone. I just feel a sadness that it doesn't seem to go away no matter how long it was.


:iagree:


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Has anyone had to put their children in counseling because of a spouses infidelity?


My brother and sister both talked to the school counselor when they were in school. I don't know if communication has been kept up since summer started. 

But as for professional counseling, I don't think either of them have gone to one.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Broken at 20 said:


> My brother and sister both talked to the school counselor when they were in school. I don't know if communication has been kept up since summer started.
> 
> But as for professional counseling, I don't think either of them have gone to one.


I know how your dad's infidelity effected you, how has it effected them? Has the counseling helped?


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## GettingBetter (Mar 7, 2013)

Are my kids damaged? I would say most definitely. They do not see it, but I do and everyone else does too.
My 5 yr old is very clingy, he wants to be with me all the time. The other day he tells me that he does not need mom any more, only dad. That he wants to live with me. My 7 yr old is still asking questions, wishing that mom and dad would get back together. They do not have as many friends as they used to. Their mom only cares about her BF and leaves them with her sister or parents most of the time they are with her. They changed the neighborhood, the schools. They do not have as many after school activities as they used to. No more vacations, no more family activities like their peers have. They shuffle between two households. 
In short, their lives are turned upside-down completely. And to hear my ex say that the kids will be OK is just sickening. I do everything in my power to teach them how to value and love others, but without the participation of the other parent they are just getting even more confused.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

GettingBetter said:


> Are my kids damaged? I would say most definitely. They do not see it, but I do and everyone else does too.
> My 5 yr old is very clingy, he wants to be with me all the time. The other day he tells me that he does not need mom any more, only dad. That he wants to live with me. My 7 yr old is still asking questions, wishing that mom and dad would get back together. They do not have as many friends as they used to. Their mom only cares about her BF and leaves them with her sister or parents most of the time they are with her. They changed the neighborhood, the schools. They do not have as many after school activities as they used to. No more vacations, no more family activities like their peers have. They shuffle between two households.
> In short, their lives are turned upside-down completely. And to hear my ex say that the kids will be OK is just sickening. I do everything in my power to teach them how to value and love others, but without the participation of the other parent they are just getting even more confused.


Wow...can you get full custoday?


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

GettingBetter said:


> Are my kids damaged? I would say most definitely. They do not see it, but I do and everyone else does too.
> My 5 yr old is very clingy, he wants to be with me all the time. The other day he tells me that he does not need mom any more, only dad. That he wants to live with me. My 7 yr old is still asking questions, wishing that mom and dad would get back together. They do not have as many friends as they used to. Their mom only cares about her BF and leaves them with her sister or parents most of the time they are with her. They changed the neighborhood, the schools. They do not have as many after school activities as they used to. No more vacations, no more family activities like their peers have. They shuffle between two households.
> In short, their lives are turned upside-down completely. And to hear my ex say that the kids will be OK is just sickening. I do everything in my power to teach them how to value and love others, but without the participation of the other parent they are just getting even more confused.



So sorry to hear this and my main worry with my situation, as I can see the same thing happening to me and my kids.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Wow...can you get full custoday?


More than likely no. Unfortunately in this society, the children are deemed better off with their mom in the picture (and the primary caregiver) unless they are proven to be neglectful, deviants against society, or addicted abusers and a threat to the children's lives and livelihood. Even not wanting the children and constantly shuffling them off to Auntie's, Grandma's, and/or best friend's house (so they can spend time partying and living the single life) is not viewed as neglect, so long as the kids are taken care of at those places (in fact it is seen as responsible for finding them a good safe place to be when Mom is out). Yep, since laws to protect the family are constantly being struck down, society has no care for the sanctity of family anf good moral values and upbringing.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> More than likely no. Unfortunately in this society, the children are deemed better off with their mom in the picture (and the primary caregiver) unless they are proven to be neglectful, deviants against society, or addicted abusers and a threat to the children's lives and livelihood. Even not wanting the children and constantly shuffling them off to Auntie's, Grandma's, and/or best friend's house (so they can spend time partying and living the single life) is not viewed as neglect, so long as the kids are taken care of at those places (in fact it is seen as responsible for finding them a good safe place to be when Mom is out). Yep, since laws to protect the family are constantly being struck down, society has no care for the sanctity of family anf good moral values and upbringing.


Family law seems like it is real messy in this country....


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## Garm (Mar 11, 2013)

GettingBetter said:


> Are my kids damaged? I would say most definitely. They do not see it, but I do and everyone else does too.
> My 5 yr old is very clingy, he wants to be with me all the time. The other day he tells me that he does not need mom any more, only dad. That he wants to live with me. My 7 yr old is still asking questions, wishing that mom and dad would get back together. They do not have as many friends as they used to. Their mom only cares about her BF and leaves them with her sister or parents most of the time they are with her. They changed the neighborhood, the schools. They do not have as many after school activities as they used to. No more vacations, no more family activities like their peers have. They shuffle between two households.
> In short, their lives are turned upside-down completely. And to hear my ex say that the kids will be OK is just sickening. I do everything in my power to teach them how to value and love others, but without the participation of the other parent they are just getting even more confused.


This is one of the main reasons I am trying to reconcile with my cheating wife. I wonder if people would be less likely to cheat if there was a law that automatically denied custody of kids to a cheating spouse? I think that would be a good law. Cheaters don't deserve custody of their children in my opinion.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Garm said:


> This is one of the main reasons I am trying to reconcile with my cheating wife. I wonder if people would be less likely to cheat if there was a law that automatically denied custody of kids to a cheating spouse? I think that would be a good law. Cheaters don't deserve custody of their children in my opinion.


In these times that would never happen unfortunately...


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Has anyone had to put their children in counseling because of a spouses infidelity?


My children have gone to counseling due to my WS's A. They were found to be not "truly" affected by the A, but more so by the aftermath (our arguing and constant bickering, so now we do it when they are not around. The funny thing is that it is not really arguing, just that when I say something my wife gets really loud. SHe could even be agreeing with me, just gets too loud.) I am afraid that they have seen what she did first hand and will grow up to think that it is fine to behave that way. I can't really say anything or I am the bad guy and she hasn't sat them down and told them that what she did was wrong and not acceptable. I hope this doesn't affect the way they have relationships in the future.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> My children have gone to counseling due to my WS's A. They were found to be not "truly" affected by the A, but more so by the aftermath (our arguing and constant bickering, so now we do it when they are not around. The funny thing is that it is not really arguing, just that when I say something my wife gets really loud. SHe could even be agreeing with me, just gets too loud.) I am afraid that they have seen what she did first hand and will grow up to think that it is fine to behave that way. I can't really say anything or I am the bad guy and she hasn't sat them down and told them that what she did was wrong and not acceptable. I hope this doesn't affect the way they have relationships in the future.


Are you reconciling? Is she remorseful?


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Are you reconciling? Is she remorseful?


I would have to say no to both of those questions. I was initially trying to reconcile, but I am having issues getting over this, and she is not remorseful from what I can tell so that kills whatever efforts I have made. She says she is, but she is so locked inside herself, she compartmentalizes everything and thus if it is not immediately presented to her, it doesn't exist. So unless I bring it up, she never addresses the issue and is ready to just move on. I am probably going to start the D proceedings this week.

We tried counseling, but I didn't like that the counselor said that I was "somewhat" responsible for her A (he meant that I was responsible for my part in the marriage that led to her to feel the need to stray and later clarified that) and then said that I didn't need to know everything. AT that point I was done. We paid good money for him to not work with us or give us exercises to build communication (which is what we went for originally) and just TOLD me how I should react and WHAT I needed to know (sorry but everyone is different. He had a storybook marriage and knew nothing of the pain we feel). My wife took that and ran, always throwing it in my face what the counselor said. She thinks that I should be over it, as she is and wants me to do things on her schedule and time frame.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> I would have to say no to both of those questions. I was initially trying to reconcile, but I am having issues getting over this, and she is not remorseful from what I can tell so that kills whatever efforts I have made. She says she is, but she is so locked inside herself, she compartmentalizes everything and thus if it is not immediately presented to her, it doesn't exist. So unless I bring it up, she never addresses the issue and is ready to just move on. I am probably going to start the D proceedings this week.
> 
> We tried counseling, but I didn't like that the counselor said that I was "somewhat" responsible for her A (he meant that I was responsible for my part in the marriage that led to her to feel the need to stray and later clarified that) and then said that I didn't need to know everything. AT that point I was done. We paid good money for him to not work with us or give us exercises to build communication (which is what we went for originally) and just TOLD me how I should react and WHAT I needed to know (sorry but everyone is different. He had a storybook marriage and knew nothing of the pain we feel). My wife took that and ran, always throwing it in my face what the counselor said. She thinks that I should be over it, as she is and wants me to do things on her schedule and time frame.


sometimes I don't even see the point of marriage anymore...it seems like it is a dead concept at least in the US....


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> sometimes I don't even see the point of marriage anymore...it seems like it is a dead concept at least in the US....


It seems that anymore it is just a way to get good insurance and discounts on taxes (which in some states you just need to co-habitate long enough to get those benefits).


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> It seems that anymore it is just a way to get good insurance and discounts on taxes (which in some states you just need to co-habitate long enough to get those benefits).


bottom line - civilization is slowly becoming unglued....


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> As we all know infidelity damages more than the BS but the entire family. I was wondering about the children of WS - who are old enough to undertand - how does it effect their future relationships? For example if a son knows his mother cheated is he less trusting of women? If his dad cheated does he think its ok? Same for th daughter of a WS. It just seems the fallout is tremendous. :scratchhead:


Short answer is yes. And decades later, I am still dealing with a lot of the crap.

This isn't an excuse for all of my life problems, but whatever issues which I owned, what happened with the divorce just added a nice dollop of crap onto the scale.

Now, before I turn into a whiney b*tch, there were kids who lived in Leningrad who were besieged by the German army...who had their parents die and their houses bombed out. Kids in Serbia had to wonder about snipers as they went to school. There were girls who had to run from rape gangs in war torn areas.

They've found ways to adapt. I have no excuses either.

But that doesn't mean it isn't something to be avoided if possible.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

JCD said:


> Short answer is yes. And decades later, I am still dealing with a lot of the crap.
> 
> This isn't an excuse for all of my life problems, but whatever issues which I owned, what happened with the divorce just added a nice dollop of crap onto the scale.
> 
> ...


It is not being whiny to say it did effect you...to many WS NEVER think about how their actions will effect their children either immediately or later in life....


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I know how your dad's infidelity effected you, how has it effected them? Has the counseling helped?


Well, my brother was initially starting to act out. Not doing his homework, and being a class clown, and slightly more confrontational. 
Then I gave him a 'talking' to. And he magically straightened up. Because while my dad may not be able to discipline him, I can. 

My sister, it is a different story. I can't really, give her a 'talking' to. And I am not a girl. With my brother, I felt a little more connected. Like I could speak more plainly. With her, not so much. And she is also much younger. 
But I think the counseling helped her a little. She is still quiet and reserved, but honestly, besides time, I don't know what else to do. 


I told them when the divorce started I would be open to talk with them, and they could come to me when they wanted to. And they did at first, but by the time summer started, neither of them had come to talk to me about it for a long time. 
Maybe because they got counseling. Maybe because they each have a respective parent they can go to. Maybe because they learned all they wanted to learn from me. Maybe they just don't want to talk to me. 

I can't say counseling is the cause, but they seem to be taking it better than I thought they would. But I am sure it isn't hurting their progress. 

But then again, they do not know the full story. 
I am sure they have been able to piece together some of it, but they don't have the whole picture. Maybe that helps them. Ignorance is bliss sometimes.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Broken, how are you holding up these days?


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Broken, how are you holding up these days?


Summer classes finished today. 
So I got 2 weeks off to do whatever I want. Except on the days I work. 
Think I'll do a video gaming marathon until school starts. 

Family still has me at arms length. On both sides.
I did try talking to my mom, asking her why she was unhappy with me. Maybe I didn't approach it correctly, or say what I should have said. Maybe I said the wrong things. But it hasn't changed really. 

I did some partying with my friends last weekend. And discovered I have a rather high tolerance for alcohol, for someone new to drinking. Who would have thought that 5 whiskey and cokes in a space of 3 hours is considered a lot? Because I didn't really notice a change in how I acted. Nor did my friends. 

So guess I am doing fine. 
Once school starts, life goes back to normal. Work, school, and getting up at 6 everyday! 
At least I can have a 2-week mini vacation before school starts.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Broken at 20 said:


> Summer classes finished today.
> So I got 2 weeks off to do whatever I want. Except on the days I work.
> Think I'll do a video gaming marathon until school starts.
> 
> ...


Try to enjoy yourself if you can, and be careful with the booze...we all like to party especially at that age just don't go too crazy..sorry you are still having a rough time of it with your parents...


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

GBValley said:


> Good question. My dad had an affair when I was about 11. My mum and the church fellowship fought to save the marriage, eventually he chose to go with other woman. Family split. I can't speak for my older brother or younger sister but for me it made me _very insecure_, no stability, our family was the gossip of the community and it was pure crap. I was fully aware of what was going on. I built up a solid wall around me that I wouldn't open up properly to anyone emotionally because I was afraid of getting hurt. I didn't trust people. I've done my best to overcome it by myself but now realize and accept you need counselling, and I am quite annoyed my parents didn't give us that opportunity.
> 
> All I know is seeing my mum go through this hard time and the mess my selfish dad caused I knew I would never put anyone through that pain. I've always had a thing about bringing back honor to my family name. Unfortunately my selfish wife who I opened up to more than anyone betrayed me and left me for OM and now I am jaded. I've had to "resort" to counselling and in a way its great because emotionally my future is brighter.
> Since my wife did the same as my dad I have ceased contact with him and let him know clearly that he hasn't made proper amends and the elephant in the room (no one acknowledging what he did) is no longer there, I don't respect him and I find it hard to say I love him.
> ...


With that sentiment and assuming that children are damaged in some way by an affair, is the damage the same if the parents divorce because they are unhappy and not because of infidelity?


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## hellosp (Jul 14, 2013)

My dad cheated and left for the OW. For a long time, I wouldn't talk to him and certainly not her. He damaged my trust, not only in men but in people in general. His affair rocked my entire world and I think I will always hold anger at him for it. Doesn't help that the OW was very nasty to me and ruined a lot of time spent with my dad. 

He left the OW about 4 years after my parents break up and tried to hook back up with my mom but by then she had had enough and moved on to meet my now step-dad who I adore. He's a great dad and has helped my mom so much. 

I know my dad regrets ever having the affair and leaving, he's told me on more than one occasion. He also regrets the pain he caused me-- he once told me he had no idea or intention of it ever affecting me. Well, it did. I used to look up to my dad, I thought he was the most amazing man ever and when I learned of the affair (on my own-- my mom wanted to shield me from it), I just never looked at him the same way. He taught me about honesty, morality, loyalty and to see that he wasn't living the way he proclaimed to hurt.

Sorry for all the rambling...  but YES, affairs can/do damage the children.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

hellosp said:


> My dad cheated and left for the OW. For a long time, I wouldn't talk to him and certainly not her. He damaged my trust, not only in men but in people in general. His affair rocked my entire world and I think I will always hold anger at him for it. Doesn't help that the OW was very nasty to me and ruined a lot of time spent with my dad.
> 
> He left the OW about 4 years after my parents break up and tried to hook back up with my mom but by then she had had enough and moved on to meet my now step-dad who I adore. He's a great dad and has helped my mom so much.
> 
> ...


I'm sure it is very common to never look at an unfaithful parent inthe same way again.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> With that sentiment and assuming that children are damaged in some way by an affair, is the damage the same if the parents divorce because they are unhappy and not because of infidelity?


Good question I do think children are damaged somewhat in a divorce in most cases...not sure how much though...


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> With that sentiment and assuming that children are damaged in some way by an affair, is the damage the same if the parents divorce because they are unhappy and not because of infidelity?


I agree that everyone suffers, but from my experience with others that divorced due entirely to unhappiness, those parents were very open with their children and were able to have cordial conversations and meetings after the divorce both were just unhappy with their current marriage and getting out changed the situation. 

I have found that generally when infidelity was involved one party is hurt much more than the other, and the hurt party generally had no clue that the marriage was in jeopardy. This makes it hard for the 2 parties to interact in the future as the trust is broken and the fear for how the children are being treated is always questioned (the cheater feels that they are brandished constantly by the BS during their visitations, and the BS feels that the children are ignored (like they were) and exposed to a bad environment while the WS belittles them to the children). This stressful situation never really seems to get better and since the marriage ended mainly due to the actions of one party, the two parties never really are able to be together cordially even when it is for the children. This makes for more stress and hatred in the already broken family.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> I agree that everyone suffers, but from my experience with others that divorced due entirely to unhappiness, those parents were very open with their children and were able to have cordial conversations and meetings after the divorce both were just unhappy with their current marriage and getting out changed the situation.
> 
> * I have found that generally when infidelity was involved one party is hurt much more than the other, and the hurt party generally had no clue that the marriage was in jeopardy. This makes it hard for the 2 parties to interact in the future as the trust is broken and the fear for how the children are being treated is always questioned (the cheater feels that they are brandished constantly by the BS during their visitations, and the BS feels that the children are ignored (like they were) and exposed to a bad environment while the WS belittles them to the children). This stressful situation never really seems to get better and since the marriage ended mainly due to the actions of one party, the two parties never really are able to be together cordially even when it is for the children. This makes for more stress and hatred in the already broken family.*


:iagree: Infidelity makes a very bad situation - IMPOSSIBLE.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Infidelity: The Lessons Children Learn

From the article:
*
"A person involved in an affair, whether is it secret or not, must take a hard look at the messages they are sending their children. Are they s eeing mom and dad living secret lives where privacy and lying are the norm, making choices that are thoughtless to their spouse, and accepting infidelity because it looks out for #1? Or are they seeing mom and dad spending time to love and care for each other, protecting each other from painful behaviors, being honest, working out conflicts together, and modeling faithfulness because it protects loved ones? "*


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

My dad had an affair and I was an affair partner. My ex-FIL was a complete philanderer, and his son was horrified that I might cheat one day. I waited until after we were separated, and then became an AP. Bad decision


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## Burned (Jul 13, 2013)

It's tough for me to watch my girls try and be strong through this but they have a huge void in their life as their mother has left the marital home and is living the single life while I take care of them. I know this tears them up inside as I ask if they are going to hang out with mom this weekend, "No, mom is going to the lake" "no, mom is going to a concert" etc. Just sad that she has abandoned them in the wake of her infidelity.

I'm their dad and they need me but nothing can be stronger than a mother/daughter bond and I'm afraid they will not get the chance to have that now.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Burned said:


> It's tough for me to watch my girls try and be strong through this but they have a huge void in their life as their mother has left the marital home and is living the single life while I take care of them. I know this tears them up inside as I ask if they are going to hang out with mom this weekend, "No, mom is going to the lake" "no, mom is going to a concert" etc. Just sad that she has abandoned them in the wake of her infidelity.
> 
> I'm their dad and they need me but nothing can be stronger than a mother/daughter bond and I'm afraid they will not get the chance to have that now.


Sorry for you and your daughters Burned..bad enough she destroyed the marriage now she is damaging her daughters..cheaters all follow the same damned patterns...pathetic


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## ceejay93 (Jun 29, 2013)

This is a message I sent someone on the forum but I'll post it here because I don't feel like thinking hard or writing something new:


I would have felt better if she had simply divorced and moved on. The reason is simple. By cheating, she HAS moved into another relationship but has dragged her integrity, morals, family, finances, and self-respect through the mud. If she had divorced, she would have given everyone a fair chance to get their emotions together and prepare for the separation of the family.

A divorce would still affect me but it wouldn't hurt. A divorce would require mourning for the family I once had but it would bring some anticipation for the new extended family I might add! Cheating hurts! It has made me doubt the family I once knew to the point where I'm not even mourning it anymore. I'm simply mourning what I thought I had! I doubt everything my mom has ever said, every promise, every statement, every action, every thought, etc. If she could piss on 20 years of marriage and a vow made before God and man, then her word has absolutely no value. 

This has brought me to my current predicament. What if I end up like her. I've always wanted to grow up to be like my parents but now, I'm not so sure. Cheating has shown me that my mom is a base human being and I want no part in that. But worse, is watching my dad suffer through it. The BS is forced to show a side to his children that they don't need to see. I always thought of my dad has strong, a rock, independent, and capable of damn near anything. I was wrong! I've seen him cry, have an outburst of anger, be confused, flip flop, wait, etc. 

Her cheating has shattered any illusions I may have had about my parents. I realize that I can't trust anything she says and that she doesn't care about any of us (or she wouldn't cheat) and I realize that my dad can be weak (understandable and not his fault but...)

It is better for your children to come from divorced a home than a shattered home! Mine has been shattered.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

ceejay93 said:


> This is a message I sent someone on the forum but I'll post it here because I don't feel like thinking hard or writing something new:
> 
> 
> I would have felt better if she had simply divorced and moved on. The reason is simple. By cheating, she HAS moved into another relationship but has dragged her integrity, morals, family, finances, and self-respect through the mud. If she had divorced, she would have given everyone a fair chance to get their emotions together and prepare for the separation of the family.
> ...


This post should be required reading for every WS with kids...think before you act....thanks for sharing your perspective and your pain...it is very instructive...are you getting any counseling to help you heal from the damage your mom has done?


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

ceejay93 said:


> This is a message I sent someone on the forum but I'll post it here because I don't feel like thinking hard or writing something new:
> 
> 
> I would have felt better if she had simply divorced and moved on. The reason is simple. By cheating, she HAS moved into another relationship but has dragged her integrity, morals, family, finances, and self-respect through the mud. If she had divorced, she would have given everyone a fair chance to get their emotions together and prepare for the separation of the family.
> ...


Mmm. Wrong words really but I can only say 'beautifully put'

This is where my two are evolving to as they have basic knowledge of our recent history. My son 11, still loves his mum but deep down has very little respect for her and this I can see is imperceptibly growing stronger.

My daughter nearly 10 is more forthright but nevertheless the same.

Their lives were /are shattered and their mum's answer - still trying to get the last affair partner (a 'married' man with a child my kids age) to effectively become their 'step dad'!

She has no clue as to the repercussions of this even though I have pointed out the future for the kids and her could and up very bad. Doesn't give a shvt just wants what she wants now and to hell with everybody else.

I have a question here for those in this position. It is within my power (I am primary carer still) to make it 'easier' for her.

Would you? Deflect the blame a little so her culpability is not so blatant etc etc.? Basically lie to the children?


I have considered this but when I consider my relationship with my children now has to have fundamental honesty at it's heart I simply cannot start lying to make my stbxw life easier in terms of our children.

I think if I did they'd later have little respect for me too. 

I think the phrase 'you reap what you sow' is never more apparent than in this situation


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Headspin said:


> Mmm. Wrong words really but I can only say 'beautifully put'
> 
> This is where my two are evolving to as they have basic knowledge of our recent history.* My son 11, still loves his mum but deep down has very little respect for her and this I can see is imperceptibly growing stronger.*
> 
> ...


I know several children of WSs and this is very true. The fundamental respect for the parent as a moral authority figure is gone. Do they still love thier parents? Of course - but do they respect them - no - much if not all the respect was lost. In the midst of all their selfishness the WS doesn't realize they are doing as much damage to their kids (maybe more) as they are their BS. The kids might not yell and scream like the BS but their respect for the cheating parent erodes. 

Many of the children of WS I know went on to cheat themselves. (I know this is not a scientific sample) Here is one case I witnessed personally: the father had a girlfriend for well over 20 years - maybe 30. His wife had no clue. One day it comes out and all hell breaks loose. The couple reconciled.Several years later his oldest daughter starts cheating on her husband and her father is horrified. He tries to warn her against cheating and her response to him was dismissive - she said "You cheated so why are you telling me not to cheat?" She divorced a short time later. She was not embarrassed or ashamed that her father caught her having an affair - since he lost all moral authority with his daughter. This is what the WS loses when they cheat.

PS- the father also had ONSs in addition to having a mistress - so he was cheating on both his wife and mistress. :slap:


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## Burned (Jul 13, 2013)

Headspin said:


> Mmm. Wrong words really but I can only say 'beautifully put'
> 
> This is where my two are evolving to as they have basic knowledge of our recent history. My son 11, still loves his mum but deep down has very little respect for her and this I can see is imperceptibly growing stronger.
> 
> ...


I decided I would only talk to them about their mom in positive way's only. My feelings for my stbxw are separate from theirs. My girls are 18, 16, and 13 so my situation might be different, if they ask I will be honest but still in a positive tone.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

burnd do you feel in some way you are 'protecting' her somewhat?

I'm honest with mine and definitely aware not to go into gory details but I find I cannot be positive. I just finish and leave it at that.

Recently my very stbx has tried to disengage me as the father of my children whilst she tries to promote OM as a step dad choice !! so maybe that has something to do with it 

Utterly contemptible


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Headspin said:


> burnd do you feel in some way you are 'protecting' her somewhat?
> 
> I'm honest with mine and definitely aware not to go into gory details but I find I cannot be positive. I just finish and leave it at that.
> 
> ...


That is downright evil....pure evil....


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## jenglenn (Jan 31, 2013)

Headspin said:


> Mmm. Wrong words really but I can only say 'beautifully put'
> 
> This is where my two are evolving to as they have basic knowledge of our recent history. My son 11, still loves his mum but deep down has very little respect for her and this I can see is imperceptibly growing stronger.
> 
> ...


You cannot lie to your children and risk them never trusting you. If they have questions give them honest but high road answers. My ex made that decision for me when he took my four year old to lunch with OW and her 16 year old.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

jenglenn said:


> You cannot lie to your children and risk them never trusting you. If they have questions give them honest but high road answers. My ex made that decision for me when he took my four year old to lunch with OW and her 16 year old.


The WS made their bed now they should lay in it...plus this stuff ALWAYS comes out....


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> That is downright evil....pure evil....


Yes it is and since we separated that's how this has progressed. I've realised a lot about my ex - in her whole life she's never been 'challenged' and through being a 'victim ' with her 'issues' she always ended up getting exactly what she wants and when she wants it ... but I'm the only one who has stood up to her and stopped her and she's now just effectively trying to write me out of any existence

Very sad


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Headspin said:


> Yes it is and since we separated that's how this has progressed. I've realised a lot about my ex - in her whole life she's never been 'challenged' and through being a 'victim ' with her 'issues' she always ended up getting exactly what she wants and when she wants it ... but I'm the only one who has stood up to her and stopped her and she's now just effectively trying to write me out of any existence
> 
> Very sad


Hang in there....


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