# on responsible non monogamy



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

This

Bustle


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Why here? Of course this place is not going to be sympathetic to non-monogamy and most people are against it. I am not against it, but the culture here is generally not interested in non-monogamy.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I would be more interested in what you have to say than a carefully constructed article.

I won't ever promote or condone poly screwing or whatever the current term is but I do respect truth and honesty.

Poly folks might be tired of hearing certain things but that doesn't render them untrue.

Two facts that are always diverted or downplayed are the very real increase in chances for STDs and pregnancies.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Like a lot of other non-conventional relationship dynamics, non monogamy is often poorly understood by those who don't practice it, don't care to understand it, and who disapprove of it. For people who object to it morally or find it socially dangerous, or who have had negative personal experiences with it, there even exists the motivation to "educate" others on its dangers. 

And the reality is that not everyone who tries it is going to have a good experience with it. It's not for everyone, and there is plenty that can go wrong. But the same can be said for marriage. 

The best we can do , if we choose "alternative lifestyle" dynamics is to educate ourselves, seek out supportive communities, realize the importance of clear communication with our partners, and keep true to our own boundaries. 

There is nothing wrong with understanding the reasons why criticism of these lifestyles exist, and engaging in productive conversation around those concerns; but there is no use in engaging in battles with people who already have their minds made up and who are more interested in judging than learning.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I am tired of hearing that I don't understand because I don't approve.

I understand many issues that I won't approve of or advocate for.

I am on very good relational terms with several people involved with practices I find wrong, inappropriate, etc...

I understand them quite well. 

If the point of this post is to let all of us disapproving monogamous folks know what a poly is tired of hearing and to point out that monogamy is just as risky, if not more, then I would definitely challenge that perception.

The risks are eminently greater when you multiply the number of humans involved.

The argument seems to be that a poly works harder and is more careful. Of course, they would have to work harder and be more careful to avoid the very real increase in dangers their lifestyle entails.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

I am in a monogamish relationship, a term coined by Dan Savage,and I accept the risks and pitfalls that come along with it.

I know that relationships are just probability. I don't have an idealistic view of any relationship type. Monogamy has the same chance of risk as an open relationship. Love at first sight occurs, and you could lose your partner that way. Nothing is an absolute for success, and what rules and boundaries is for is to increase the rate of success.

Sure, my gf can, or has a chance of finding someone who is better match than me, someone who triggers more of her drives. She faces the same risk as well. I done poly, and discover it is not for me.

The best way to insure that our relationship will last, it depends on how we maintain, and grow with one another.

I feel secure if I lose her, I will move on and find someone else, because I know nothing is guaranteed, and I made peace with that, and I know that I love myself enough to move on. I am not going to hang up my self-worth on an outcome of a relationship that has too many factors to it. The factor that I control is myself, and what my boundaries are.

It doesn't mean that we will practice it for a lifetime either.

It is only cheating if there is deception, plus, if we engage in sex with anyone else, we have our blood tested, and wait for the results before we engage.

I don't plan on marrying, and am okay with a commitment ceremony. If she ever wants to get marry, that is my boundary, and I will let her go, so she can find someone who can meet that need.

I am practical instead of idealistic.

Funny though, even in an open relationship, we do not sleep with others often, and perhaps it is because we are still in the honeymoon phase, and we get the most fulfillment with each other.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Somebody,

Understandably this topic makes people uncomfortable. I think it's an important topic. 

In a scenario where your choices are:
- pressuring your partner to do something they clearly don't enjoy 
- involuntary celibacy and all the resentment associated with that
- divorce
- having a secret affair
- having some type of open marriage

It's a no brainier to me. 

And I'm not talking about doing this casually or using this as the basis for extorting sex from a partner. 

While I think divorce is far better (for the adults) than a secret affair. It's always puzzled me that so many people see the idea of an open marriage - as a total non option. 

I couldn't stay with a spouse whose posture was: I'm not going to sleep with you AND I'm not going to try to fix that part of our marriage AND I'll eviscerate you if you do THAT with anyone else. 

That's not love that's about possession. 

QUOTE=NobodySpecial;12532218]This

Bustle[/QUOTE]


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I couldn't handle it. From him or myself.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Talking about marriage means talking about marriages that work, including those that are not monogamous. After all the name of this site is not TAM(onomgamy).

One woman's blog.

It seems like most of TAM CWI stories deal with troubled people and troubled relationships. There are probably a less than 20 percent who could possibly have overcome their marital problems by experimenting with an open marriage.

It would seem to me that successful open marriages probably follow patterns. Cheaters in a open marriages would probably break the open marriage rules and end up divorced.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

I don't know what the success rate is when a troubled marriage adopts poly as a "fix" for its issues. I'm guessing it's not very high. The people I know who are happily in a relationship and happily poly started out that way--poly was their "orientation" and they knew it going into their relationship, and they sought a partner who was compatible with that orientation and that lifestyle. 

For a couple who has been married and monogynous for a long time who then decide to adopt a poly lifestyle, I think the risks are higher. And if the marriage is already strained, the risks are higher still (although there is less to lose if it proves to be the final nail.) 

I have no moral objection, and although we are surely curious and the possibility gets lots of fantasy play in our sex life, my husband and I wouldn't attempt it at this stage of our lives. We have too much to lose.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

The woman with the blog explains herself pretty well. She is needy and her husband doesn't want to go out, chase her and court her. He is not interested in sexual experimentation. She seems to be dependent on her husband. It sounds like he is the more secure person.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

jld said:


> *I couldn't handle it. From him or myself.*


I'm too much of a Romantic at







to be involved with any sort of Non-monogamy.. ..I don't consider myself "Idealistic".... though in Romance.. I HAVE BEEN.. I'll blame this on my Husband .. it's his fault.. 

I DO idealize whom I love.. I would fall prey to wanting to worship and adore ONE of them over the other, and greatly desire that same type of whirlwind exclusiveness from my lover... I would be devastated if my husband wanted another.. and he would be also...if I went there.. 

Though I am with MEM.. in the fact.. I wouldn't put up with a sexless marriage, or anything resembling it ...and Honesty is a must..... Making love is something* I NEED* ....if this was ripped from our union..that idealization and love/lust for him would slowly die , being eaten with resentment and I'd be thinking over the fence .. I'd have to get out...


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I guess I was wrong, there is a lively discussion going on. I had assumed people would not even discuss it, so that's why I said "why here?"

Officially, I'm for it. For who wants it and it works well for.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I do agree with GettingIt that those who entered into a relationship as poly are less likely to encounter immediate problems.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I don't think non-monogamy is "wrong" in any moral sense, but I think it does not work well for the majority of people, even those who think it will work for them.

I have poly friends and my impression is that it really isn't working out well for them. 

It sounds like fun, but I know it wouldn't work for me. I can't enjoy sex without love, and I can't love multiple people without conflicts developing.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> I don't think non-monogamy is "wrong" in any moral sense, but *I think it does not work well for the majority of people, even those who think it will work for them.*
> 
> I have poly friends and my impression is that it really isn't working out well for them.
> ...


You are correct. It's more complex than monogamy, so additional difficulties are likely. When it does work, it's wonderful, just like a good monogamous relationship is wonderful when it works. We already know that the majority of monogamous relationships fail or are plagued with problems and unhappiness too, but we all get into whatever kind of relationship appeals to us in the pursuit of happiness and other goals.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> You are correct. It's more complex than monogamy, so additional difficulties are likely. When it does work, it's wonderful, just like a good monogamous relationship is wonderful when it works. We already know that the majority of monogamous relationships fail or are plagued with problems and unhappiness too, but we all get into whatever kind of relationship appeals to us in the pursuit of happiness and other goals.


This got a lot better reception than I had expected. The thing that strikes me is that on the journey to poly, we had already taken a journey that a lot of mono people would benefit from whether or not they journeyed further. The journey was about finding root causes to problems, fixing them and moving to a place of real and complete trust not just that the other would do what they say or whatever but that the other really, genuinely cared as much about the other as themselves.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Somebody,

The BEST conflicts in marriage - are the ones where you want to put your partners need(s) first and they are determined to put yours first. 




NobodySpecial said:


> This got a lot better reception than I had expected. The thing that strikes me is that on the journey to poly, we had already taken a journey that a lot of mono people would benefit from whether or not they journeyed further. The journey was about finding root causes to problems, fixing them and moving to a place of real and complete trust not just that the other would do what they say or whatever but that the other really, genuinely cared as much about the other as themselves.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> Somebody,
> 
> The BEST conflicts in marriage - are the ones where you want to put your partners need(s) first and they are determined to put yours first.


It is really amazing how not obvious that is to many of us.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

SomebodyS,
Well it wasn't obvious to me why our marriage was fun, loving and ALSO high conflict until our MC explained it to me. 

It took her maybe 2 hours to convey what I had been unable to figure out on my own over a period of 20 years.....

Even smart folk have their blind spots...




NobodySpecial said:


> It is really amazing how not obvious that is to many of us.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> SomebodyS,
> Well it wasn't obvious to me why our marriage was fun, loving and ALSO high conflict until our MC explained it to me.
> 
> It took her maybe 2 hours to convey what I had been unable to figure out on my own over a period of 20 years.....
> ...


I cite Doug Anderson of usenet as my educator.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I cite a 50-50 stereophonic blend of:

My MC and my IC (Internet counselor) who goes by the handle JLD on this site. 

That's not to say I haven't learned a lot from others on this site. Because I have. But most of the other stuff was very useful mechanics. 

The two folks above changed the spirit of my marriage. And that's no small thing....




NobodySpecial said:


> I cite Doug Anderson of usenet as my educator.


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## thefam (Sep 9, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> This got a lot better reception than I had expected. The thing that strikes me is that on the journey to poly, we had already taken a journey that a lot of mono people would benefit from whether or not they journeyed further. The journey was about finding root causes to problems, fixing them and moving to a place of real and complete trust not just that the other would do what they say or whatever but that the other really, genuinely cared as much about the other as themselves.


I believe both poly and open marriages are morally wrong. I don't know anyone who is involved in either. I do know people who cheat in their marriages which I believe is just as bad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

IDK, I have enough on my plate just dealing with my wife and daughter, monogamy/poly or not I can't imagine having to deal with another female


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

thefam said:


> I believe both poly and open marriages are morally wrong.


I am curious why. I have never heard an argument that made any sense except "God says". 



> I don't know anyone who is involved in either. I do know people who cheat in their marriages which I believe is *just as* bad.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am curious why you think something similar, PLUS the element of deception is AS bad and not worse?


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

I had an older couple give me advice. Even though I am not poly, a lot of relationship issues came up early and often. It is like a big mass of experience all at once, juggling schedules, people's needs.

But, I don't think every couple needs to go down the poly route to have a successful relationship. Some people just find someone that they are so compatible, and they never felt a need to open up the marriage.

If anything, doing poly or testing it out at an early age is advantageous, just for the experience alone. It can help you better focus on what type of person you are looking for, what your needs are, and how best you can help meet your partner/partner's needs.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Mr.Fisty said:


> I had an older couple give me advice. Even though I am not poly, a lot of relationship issues came up early and often. It is like a big mass of experience all at once, juggling schedules, people's needs.
> 
> But, I don't think every couple needs to go down the poly route to have a successful relationship. Some people just find someone that *they are so compatible*, and they never felt a need to open up the marriage.


This is one of the things that is often misunderstood about poly. It is not about an absence. It is not a deficit of compatibility or anything else. I think that was even mentioned in the article. It is about the ability and desire to love more than one person. You either ARE able and DO desire, or you don't.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I'm supportive of any arrangement that provides a stable, loving, emotionally positive environment for the children in it. 

I guess that makes me a pragmatist. 




thefam said:


> I believe both poly and open marriages are morally wrong. I don't know anyone who is involved in either. I do know people who cheat in their marriages which I believe is just as bad.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

were your parents poly?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> were your parents poly?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Me? Hells no.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

ConanHub said:


> I am tired of hearing that I don't understand because I don't approve.
> 
> I understand many issues that I won't approve of or advocate for.
> 
> ...


Are you saying you don't approve for yourself or for anyone?

In all cases?

You take the STD angle. Which I get, and would be a giant concern for me (for others, this lifestyle isn't for me).

Let's say I'm going to have, I dunno, 20 partners over a 10 year time frame in a typical serialized non monogamy fashion. I.e. 'exclusive dating'.

Or I could have 5 years with one group of 10 people, and 5 years with another group. Etc.

What's the difference?

Assuming everyone is playing safe, of course.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

thefam said:


> I believe both poly and open marriages are morally wrong. I don't know anyone who is involved in either. I do know people who cheat in their marriages which I believe is just as bad.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Can you talk more about that thefam?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

marduk said:


> Are you saying you don't approve for yourself or for anyone?
> 
> In all cases?
> 
> ...


I am not convinced it is right or healthy for anyone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

marduk said:


> Are you saying you don't approve for yourself or for anyone?
> 
> In all cases?
> 
> ...


There's the rub, huh? Someone in a responsibly non-monogamous relationship has no reason to do anything but play safe. A cheater? Not so much. Or so the statistics seem to support.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> I am not convinced it is right or healthy for anyone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do you care to discuss? Both "right" and "healthy"? I would be curious on your views of what it takes to be either of those things.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> Do you care to discuss? Both "right" and "healthy"? I would be curious on your views of what it takes to be either of those things.


Will do later. I only have time for one or two lines at the moment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

ConanHub said:


> I am not convinced it is right or healthy for anyone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Based on what?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

the list below reflects the shifting views of human sexuality in America. 

- the battle of the legalization of birth control took over half a century and didn't finally until the early 70's. 
- battles over legality of oral and anal sex much later (sodomy laws)
- gay rights in front of the the court now

Personally I don't want the government or the deep state in my bedroom. 








NobodySpecial said:


> Do you care to discuss? Both "right" and "healthy"? I would be curious on your views of what it takes to be either of those things.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> the list below reflects the shifting views of human sexuality in America.
> 
> - the battle of the legalization of birth control took over half a century and didn't finally until the early 70's.
> - battles over legality of oral and anal sex much later (sodomy laws)
> ...


No matter how many people are in there with me!


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> the list below reflects the shifting views of human sexuality in America.
> 
> - the battle of the legalization of birth control took over half a century and didn't finally until the early 70's.
> - battles over legality of oral and anal sex much later (sodomy laws)
> ...


Well it also reflects the shifting view on the basis for morality. Once upon a time, it was God and Bible, period. Or your denomination's interpretation of same. With the rise in CINO (christians in name only) and the those who outright reject religion, the basis for morality has changed. A lot of the remaining religious assume that it amounts to a wholesale tossing of morality out with the god. But it certainly isn't for us nor the people we associate with. 

We may have cast aside the puritan views of our forbears in favor of more practical views. But our moral compass is guided by compassion, caring, sharing and loving. Seems pretty moral to me. And this kind of morality does not require a mean old father in the sky ready to spank us if we don't comply. Being part of a group of compassionate, caring, sharing and loving people is its won reward.

I am not trying to put words in ConanHub's mouth. This is just jumping off from where you are based on my own experience.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

SomebodyS,
I simply view it as a 'consenting adult' thing. 


QUOTE=NobodySpecial;12564753]Well it also reflects the shifting view on the basis for morality. Once upon a time, it was God and Bible, period. Or your denomination's interpretation of same. With the rise in CINO (christians in name only) and the those who outright reject religion, the basis for morality has changed. A lot of the remaining religious assume that it amounts to a wholesale tossing of morality out with the god. But it certainly isn't for us nor the people we associate with. 

We may have cast aside the puritan views of our forbears in favor of more practical views. But our moral compass is guided by compassion, caring, sharing and loving. Seems pretty moral to me. And this kind of morality does not require a mean old father in the sky ready to spank us if we don't comply. Being part of a group of compassionate, caring, sharing and loving people is its won reward.

I am not trying to put words in ConanHub's mouth. This is just jumping off from where you are based on my own experience.[/QUOTE]


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

I wrote about my single experience with an open marriage before on TAM, but here it is again. On a trip I met a couple, the wife had crush on me and showed up in my hotel room one night. I was in my mid 20s, she was a couple of years older. It was apparent what she wanted. I kissed her. She stopped me and said she had to go ask her husband's permission. She left and came back with his go ahead.

They had a open marriage. A quarter century later she popped up on Facebook. She wanted to reminisce. She was still married to the same guy. They had had two sons, now grown up. She, her husband, my youngest daughter and I all went out to dinner in NYC last summer. They are not immoral people. They marriage was a success.

They stopped the open marriage deal after having kids.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> IDK, I have enough on my plate just dealing with my wife and daughter, monogamy/poly or not I can't imagine having to deal with another female


Ha.... You sound like my hubby, weve had a discussion in the past and he laughed and said "good god, your enough to handle i could not handle another".... . I think i keep him on his toes. I do not think he could handle having another woman on the go... I wear him out:smthumbup:... He would have no energy to keep someone else.

In all honestly tho, I have to agree with the fam. I do not agree with it at all... Open relationships Pologamy i mean why?? Why would anyone want this?...

Even if i was not married with my husband who i would rather die first than let him have sex or see him with other women... I still could not do in any relationship, I honestly do not think i am built that way... I love to much.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Mel,
How is that different than asking: Why are some people gay? 

I'm mostly wired for monogamy. 

And M2 is like you, she is not into sharing. 

I just accept that other people are wired differently than me. 

Asexual, gay, poly. If they treat their partners decently, I say good for them. 





melw74 said:


> Ha.... You sound like my hubby, weve had a discussion in the past and he laughed and said "good god, your enough to handle i could not handle another".... . I think i keep him on his toes. I do not think he could handle having another woman on the go... I wear him out:smthumbup:... He would have no energy to keep someone else.
> 
> In all honestly tho, I have to agree with the fam. I do not agree with it at all... Open relationships Pologamy i mean why?? Why would anyone want this?...
> 
> Even if i was not married with my husband who i would rather die first than let him have sex or see him with other women... I still could not do in any relationship, I honestly do not think i am built that way... I love to much.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

I suspect we will see polyamory legalized in the sense of allowing plural marriage sometime in the next 10 years. That is because all of the legal arguments against it have been made against same-sex marriage, and have failed.

I think it can work for the right people. It is certainly not a solution to a weak marriage, but to me anyway is far superior morally to cheating. After all, many people here have said that the lying is more hurtful than the sexual infidelity, and lying isn't necessary with polyamory.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> Mel,
> How is that different than asking: Why are some people gay?
> 
> I'm mostly wired for monogamy.
> ...


I can accept it, Of course, but does not mean i have to agree with it... And i never will.

Of course were all wired differently. I just cant see as having multiple partners is treating your partner decently.. I cant help the way i feel.

I think being gay is a lot different than sleeping around with different people.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

melw74 said:


> I can accept it, Of course, but does not mean i have to agree with it... And i never will.
> 
> Of course were all wired differently. I just cant see as having multiple partners is treating your partner decently.. I cant help the way i feel.
> 
> I think being gay is a lot different than sleeping around with different people.


I think that's honest, and I can respect that.

I'm interpreting from your position that you personally wouldn't want to be part of any arrangement like this (as would I), and that you wouldn't agree with it as a lifestyle for others.

But would accept it, and not stand in their way for wanting it.

Do I have that right?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

My thoughts on this is... a woman only needs one willing & able c0ck to play with.. I mean really....why would we need more? 



MEM11363 said:


> I cite a 50-50 stereophonic blend of:
> 
> *My MC and my IC (Internet counselor) who goes by the handle JLD on this site. *
> 
> ...


Love that [email protected]#$



> *EllisRedding said*:* IDK, I have enough on my plate just dealing with my wife and daughter, monogamy/poly or not I can't imagine having to deal with another female*


 From a physical standpoint alone, mine wouldn't have anything left for another woman!


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Mel,
I understand your reasoning. I watched a reality TV series called: Polyamory - married and dating

It was interesting. It did seem a bit - complicated. 





melw74 said:


> I can accept it, Of course, but does not mean i have to agree with it... And i never will.
> 
> Of course were all wired differently. I just cant see as having multiple partners is treating your partner decently.. I cant help the way i feel.
> 
> I think being gay is a lot different than sleeping around with different people.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

marduk said:


> I think that's honest, and I can respect that.
> 
> I'm interpreting from your position that you personally wouldn't want to be part of any arrangement like this (as would I), and that you wouldn't agree with it as a lifestyle for others.
> 
> ...


Evening. I am just trying to be honest. These are just my feelings on it... You cant change the way you feel about things ( Not a prude tho honest)..

NO... I would never ever be a part of it. Its one thing that i just really do not agree with. I cant see the need why someone needs multiple partners. I mean why?. Whats the reason is one woman not enough?.

It gives me great pleasure knowing that me and only me is enough for my hubby. There are not enough words to describe how i feel about him.... I know your probably thinking MUSH..... Hes mine his body is for me alone... The thought of him with another makes me feel sick.

I am sorry, but i just cant agree with it, I really do not want to offend, but its just how i feel. I took my vows and take my vows seriously. I married my hubby to be with him and only him... This is what marriage to me is, being with one person for the rest of your life ( Sorry for going on).

To be honest i cant understand why anybody would want a lifestyle like this, again just saying how it is for me.

Oh i would never stand in anyone's way if this is what they wanted tho, each tho their own. What people do with there lives is their own business nothing to do with me.... does not mean i have to agree with it tho.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

SA,
In a parallel universe sans her church upbringing and medical issues - I can see M2 occasionally wanting to sleep with other folks. 





SimplyAmorous said:


> My thoughts on this is... a woman only needs one willing & able c0ck to play with.. I mean really....why would we need more?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> Mel,
> I understand your reasoning. I watched a reality TV series called: Polyamory - married and dating
> 
> It was interesting. It did seem a bit - complicated.


Did you ever watch that program sister wives?. I did just because i was genuinely interested to understand why and how people live like this?... I also found it complicated. Just trying to keep track with whose children was whose was just as bad. the guy who was married to 4 wives and had so many children.

They also had 4 seperate houses at one point. I could not help feeling a little sad for his first wife, for some reason no matter how many times she smiled all i could feel was sadness behind it.

Thanks, I was hoping i did not come across as being rude or harsh


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

melw74 said:


> I can accept it, Of course, but does not mean i have to agree with it... And i never will.
> 
> Of course were all wired differently. I just cant see as having multiple partners is treating your partner decently.. I cant help the way i feel.
> 
> I think being gay is a lot different than sleeping around with different people.


It is important to realize or understand that within the confines of responsible non-monogamy, "sleeping around with other people" is the single least common. It is the least likely to be manageable as responsible.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Mel,
I'd say you've done an excellent job of expressing a strong opinion in a sincere manner. 

If I had to adjectivize your posting style I'd say: passionate 

Sounds like your marriage is also passionate. That's a beautiful thing. 

I never saw sister wives, I have however watched 'Big love'. 

The funny thing is that I expected to envy the husband. But I never did. Absolutely no way I could keep up with the pace of his life.....

To be fair though, that model is different than polyamory. It's inherently male skewed. 





melw74 said:


> Did you ever watch that program sister wives?. I did just because i was genuinely interested to understand why and how people live like this?... I also found it complicated. Just trying to keep track with whose children was whose was just as bad. the guy who was married to 4 wives and had so many children.
> 
> They also had 4 seperate houses at one point. I could not help feeling a little sad for his first wife, for some reason no matter how many times she smiled all i could feel was sadness behind it.
> 
> Thanks, I was hoping i did not come across as being rude or harsh


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

melw74 said:


> Evening. I am just trying to be honest. These are just my feelings on it... You cant change the way you feel about things ( Not a prude tho honest)..
> 
> NO... I would never ever be a part of it. Its one thing that i just really do not agree with. I cant see the need why someone needs multiple partners. I mean why?. Whats the reason is one woman not enough?.
> 
> ...


Would you like to try to understand why? I only ask because most people really don't. What they often mean is, you are broken. You don't know what love is. And my favorite, you have not found the right one yet. I mean how ****ing lcuky am I that I found 3!

I would be happy to share why, if I thought there was a genuine curiosity.

<-- Fabulously happy for 20 plus years.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> Mel,
> I'd say you've done an excellent job of expressing a strong opinion in a sincere manner.
> 
> If I had to adjectivize your posting style I'd say: passionate
> ...


Polyamory is male skewed? Where did you get that? From the Mormon model of polygamy? This is just plain inaccurate in modern polyamory. If one were inclined to lurk at the boards or happened to befriend those brave enough to be open, this would be immediately be dispelled.

I don't generally watch... well ok tv. But tv shows about this topic. Cuz it's Fiction. The motivation is not an accurate portrayal but to sell commercials. I'd bet the bang like monkeys. I have gone to my BF and GFs kids' soccer games. We have eaten at each others houses. We played some cards games. We haven;t slept with each other in months.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Sheesh, MEM. I am almost offended. Male skewed? I thought you knew me better than that.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> Sheesh, MEM. I am almost offended. Male skewed? I thought you knew me better than that.


He wasn't referring to your situation but sister wives, I believe
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> My thoughts on this is... *a woman* only needs one willing & able c0ck to play with.. I mean really....why would we need more?


Ehem. The SA woman. Want in on a little secret? (Not so secret but still the one thing no one EVER replies to. Sex is not the primary motivator.



> Love that [email protected]#$
> 
> From a physical standpoint alone, mine wouldn't have anything left for another woman!


Neither would mine!


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> He wasn't referring to your situation but sister wives, I believe
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Never saw it. But I was playin'.


----------



## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> Mel,
> I'd say you've done an excellent job of expressing a strong opinion in a sincere manner.
> 
> If I had to adjectivize your posting style I'd say: passionate
> ...


Thank you very much. I know sometimes i can come across as a little rude, but sometimes its hard to express yourself properly on forums like this. I think what i am thinking, but like i say not very good at putting my point across lol.

I am a passionate person... see you can put things across much better than me.

My marriage is the most important thing to me, and its really hard trying to understand this way of life, I suppose its because the way i feel about it, and because i am so against it.

Not seen big love, but sister wives was about a man who was in this sort of relationship he had 4 wives, I mean they seemed really happy, all the wives wanted it, so who am i to disagree. All i knew was it could never be something for me.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

SomebodyS,

So sorry for my totally ambiguous run on sentence. 

What I meant was: The Mormon based model of polygamy is inherently male skewed. I was intending to differentiate between Poly and Mormon religious practices. 

The little bit I know about modern Poly is that it doesn't seem to have a gender skew at all....






NobodySpecial said:


> Polyamory is male skewed? Where did you get that? From the Mormon model of polygamy? This is just plain inaccurate in modern polyamory. If one were inclined to lurk at the boards or happened to befriend those brave enough to be open, this would be immediately be dispelled.
> 
> I don't generally watch... well ok tv. But tv shows about this topic. Cuz it's Fiction. The motivation is not an accurate portrayal but to sell commercials. I'd bet the bang like monkeys. I have gone to my BF and GFs kids' soccer games. We have eaten at each others houses. We played some cards games. We haven;t slept with each other in months.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

melw74 said:


> My marriage is the most important thing to me.


So is mine. So is my husband's. So is my BFs and my GFs. We have agreed that that is how it should and must be if it ever comes to that. It never has.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> SomebodyS,
> 
> So sorry for my totally ambiguous run on sentence.
> 
> ...


It is REALLY important to use the right bit AFTER the poly. PolyGAMY has a really nasty history that polyAMORY has no need or desire to share.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

YES

QUOTE=ConanHub;12566345]He wasn't referring to your situation but sister wives, I believe
_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

SomebodyS,

I would definitely like to understand how this works. 

And also the degree to which the kids understand and/or don't understand the rules of engagement. 




NobodySpecial said:


> Would you like to try to understand why? I only ask because most people really don't. What they often mean is, you are broken. You don't know what love is. And my favorite, you have not found the right one yet. I mean how ****ing lcuky am I that I found 3!
> 
> I would be happy to share why, if I thought there was a genuine curiosity.
> 
> <-- Fabulously happy for 20 plus years.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Will do so going forward. 




NobodySpecial said:


> It is REALLY important to use the right bit AFTER the poly. PolyGAMY has a really nasty history that polyAMORY has no need or desire to share.


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

melw74 said:


> Evening. I am just trying to be honest. These are just my feelings on it... You cant change the way you feel about things ( Not a prude tho honest)..
> 
> NO... I would never ever be a part of it. Its one thing that i just really do not agree with. I cant see the need why someone needs multiple partners. I mean why?. Whats the reason is one woman not enough?.
> 
> ...


 I'm a MUSH bucket too about things like this...really enjoyed reading your post Melw74 .. I think the more sensitively "romantic" a person is geared... the more they feel destined to tie themselves to one special Love...and for life...the mutual giving & receiving in exclusive "you are mine" bliss. 

I always thought most women were Romantic -until I came to this forum and realized through many female posts.. that Wow.. it's just not so!!.



> *MEM11363 said*: *SA, In a parallel universe sans her church upbringing and medical issues - I can see M2 occasionally wanting to sleep with other folks*.


 For us.. nothing wrong with a little erotic "fantasy" (some may feel that is mental infidelity)...though that's too stringent....but touching, any sort of emotional affection given to another, crossing those boundaries... it's an affront to everything we have shared..we'd be devastated...something would be so lost..

I will admit a good majority of mine are just going back in time with him.. in our younger years, opportunities we had -but didn't take..so easily it could have been. 

We watched a DVD on *Sexual fantasies* not long ago...narrated by Sex therapists to how HEALTHY & normal this IS...they could be of any variety.. it's so individual.. 

Gave a typical example of a man's...being seduced by a variety of beautiful women, showed him standing in a river, they were surrounding him, scantly clothed, each wanted him NOW ... all of this causes higher sexual excitement.. 

Yeah.. that's not my personal fantasy.. ha ha... but a little fantasy.. is enough...


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

melw74 said:


> Not seen big love, but sister wives was about a man who was in this sort of relationship *he had 4 wives,* I mean they seemed really happy, all the wives wanted it, so who am i to disagree. All i knew was it could never be something for me.


I'd try to complete and BE the hottest wife.... I'd be jealous... Yeah. I know ME [email protected]#$ .... If not, I'd probably be pi$$ed off... and want to find me a man who wanted me above all.. If he gets 4 wives.. darn it... they need 4 men.. where is the fairness in that ! (never seen the show, by the way)


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

SomebodyS,
Let me try to frame what I believe you are saying. 

If either you or your H were to say to the other: I'd like you to stop sleeping with anyone else, you would do so. 

I think of it as polyamory with a strong primary partner who has the ability to exercise a veto. 

That said I DO get the impression that folks who are polyamorous are unlikely to exercise a veto while ignoring or rejecting their partner sexually. 






QUOTE=NobodySpecial;12566473]So is mine. So is my husband's. So is my BFs and my GFs. We have agreed that that is how it should and must be if it ever comes to that. It never has.[/QUOTE]


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> SomebodyS,
> 
> I would definitely like to understand how this works.


We are in a polyfaithful quad. As with couples, we partner with people of like values. And we talk. I mean it was not anything more exciting that a few conversations where we agreed we all shared the same vision of what is important. Some poly grouping eschew the notion of ranking. It plays out next to never. BF and I hold the highest "rank" in terms of ... I don't know what you would call it. Decision making I guess. Because we are both type A. As such, it is our responsibility to make sure we are not ignoring the needs of our more easy going counter parts.

But from a life point of view, our marriages and our spouses out "rank" the others. And on the day the relationship threatens our marriage, or either marriage is brokey enough on its own, the relationship comes to a full stop.

Every time DH and I have an argument, BF asks if we need a break. It is almost cute.



> And also the degree to which the kids understand and/or don't understand the rules of engagement.


It has been their normal since they were small. We speak to them as openly as we would about anything else. (I can only speak about MY kids. They tend to be a bit more protectionist in general.) They know that both of their parents are different than their more conservative friends' parents, all around. We live in a rural country town near a liberal city. So they are all Republicans. We are Democrats. They all go to church. We are atheists. (Kids choose what they want to believe.) We don't manicure our lawn. (Thank goodness for all the trees!) We have parties with 40-60 of our closest friends a few times a year. So this is just one more thing that is different. But has been as long as they can remember. There was a thing going around on the internet about a lesbian woman talking to a little kid about her girlfriend. The kid asked "Cool, are you going to marry her?" Just like that. Kids don't have the same kind of notions that were baked with.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> SomebodyS,
> Let me try to frame what I believe you are saying.
> 
> If either you or your H were to say to the other: I'd like you to stop sleeping with anyone else, you would do so.


We never ever "slept with other people". We have ALWAYS been together. Well as a choice. There were like 2 instances else-wise. They weren't that interesting.
I think of it as polyamory with a strong primary partner who has the ability to exercise a veto. 



> That said I DO get the impression that folks who are polyamorous are unlikely to exercise a veto while ignoring or rejecting their partner sexually.


It is not as transactional as you make it out to be. I mean if I said I want out today, DH would be like OK. He would want to know what is going on in my mind and heart. He would wonder why I went from in love with my BF to ok I am so done. SO we would talk about it. But the very last thing DH would intentionally do is hurt me.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Well I'm hoping that my clumsy use of terminology doesn't inhibit SomebodyS from sharing. 

I admit I'm curious. 




SimplyAmorous said:


> I'd try to complete and BE the hottest wife.... I'd be jealous... Yeah. I know ME [email protected]#$ .... If not, I'd probably be pi$$ed off... and want to find me a man who wanted me above all.. If he gets 4 wives.. darn it... they need 4 men.. where is the fairness in that ! (never seen the show, by the way)


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> Well I'm hoping that my clumsy use of terminology doesn't inhibit SomebodyS from sharing.
> 
> I admit I'm curious.


MEM you are all good.


----------



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

NS,

I didn't realize the article you posted was about the responsiblities those in that lifestyle take on. Somehow I missed that. Sorry. 

I do have some thoughts.

1. Don't care what you do or others. 

2. If I was out dating, I'd want to know that someone was in a poly kind of thing. 

3. With all the negativity, how would one know they weren't getting into some poly experience, if they don't want that? Wouldn't the poly individual not want to publicize that? Seems to me the meetups would be with folks of like mind identified by previous partners? 

4. How can someone who does not want to get into that be reasonably sure the person they are talking with isn't into that lifestyle? 

5. Please give me a little leeway here. I'm not sure about any of this. I don't understand it, do not want it explained, but want a little assurance, if I ever get to that place. 

Thanks.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> NS,
> 
> I didn't realize the article you posted was about the responsiblities those in that lifestyle take on. Somehow I missed that. Sorry.
> 
> ...


I have no experience with that. DH and I came to it together. We were mono for years at first, just like most folks.




> 3. With all the negativity, how would one know they weren't getting into some poly experience, if they don't want that? Wouldn't the poly individual not want to publicize that? Seems to me the meetups would be with folks of like mind identified by previous partners?


The work is full of all kinds. The only people I have experience with in RL and online have NO desire to hide. Why would they want a partner not interested in the same life as they?



> 4. How can someone who does not want to get into that be reasonably sure the person they are talking with isn't into that lifestyle?


This is just me, but I would ask them. I mean, if the person is a DB, they are probably a DB in a lot of their lives. I am not sure why this would any different.



> 5. Please give me a little leeway here. I'm not sure about any of this. I don't understand it, do not want it explained, but want a little assurance, if I ever get to that place.
> 
> Thanks.


Oh. Well sorry. I explained. You want assurance that people you date won't be lying DBs about the topic of polyamory? I guess I would want the people I date not to be lying DBs about EVERYTHING.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> Will do so going forward.


I was being goofy and lighthearted.


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

If my wife suggested this, I'd be crushed. It would be over.

That said, what a poly groupsome does with each other does not affect me in the slightest. I can barely keep up with my own marriage.

Carry on.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Fozzy said:


> If my wife suggested this, I'd be crushed. It would be over.
> 
> That said, what a poly groupsome does with each other does not affect me in the slightest. I can barely keep up with my own marriage.
> 
> Carry on.


Aw Fozzy. Live your life and live it happily. If you aren't now, I hope you will be real soon. No one is suggesting anyone OUGHT to live this way.


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Just way too much of a "one woman guy" here! I don't really feel that I could forthrightly cope with "non-monogomy", unless of course I had IV's stuck in both arms, all while being joyfully transfused with JDBlack #7!*


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> Aw Fozzy. Live your life and live it happily. If you aren't now, I hope you will be real soon. No one is suggesting anyone OUGHT to live this way.


I do agree, this will all be academic within 30 years. If handled responsibly as you seem to be advocating, I don't see anything wrong with it if everyone is on board.

I think a lot of resistance to it comes from the more traditional polygamous model used by the FLDS and similar groups, which is more of an abusive control mechanism than anything else.


----------



## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I'm a MUSH bucket too about things like this...really enjoyed reading your post Melw74 .. I think the more sensitively "romantic" a person is geared... the more they feel destined to tie themselves to one special Love...and for life...the mutual giving & receiving in exclusive "you are mine" bliss.
> 
> I always thought most women were Romantic -until I came to this forum and realized through many female posts.. that Wow.. it's just not so!!.
> 
> ...


Aww thanks. Sometimes i wonder if i am to much for my husband and i am soppy, I am always hugging him and telling him i love him god knows what hes really thinking Ha.

Na hes a really genuine guy.... Ahhh who said romance was dead hey As long as were not harming anyone.


----------



## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I'd try to complete and BE the hottest wife.... I'd be jealous... Yeah. I know ME [email protected]#$ .... If not, I'd probably be pi$$ed off... and want to find me a man who wanted me above all.. If he gets 4 wives.. darn it... they need 4 men.. where is the fairness in that ! (never seen the show, by the way)


Yep they took turns with him. He like had nights. For instance one night he was with one of the wives and then another night with the other wives... god that would be horrible, I really cant think of anything worse. You should have a watch i think they are still showing repeat episodes. I think his name was cody. I know that they were showing it one channel and they called it something else, but the same show around the one family.


----------



## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
Yes, I think this is the biggest problem. Most people (not all!) will tend to become competitive for attention. 

Again, I believe it can work, but not for most people. 



SimplyAmorous said:


> I'd try to complete and BE the hottest wife.... I'd be jealous... Yeah. I know ME [email protected]#$ .... If not, I'd probably be pi$$ed off... and want to find me a man who wanted me above all.. If he gets 4 wives.. darn it... they need 4 men.. where is the fairness in that ! (never seen the show, by the way)


----------



## thefam (Sep 9, 2014)

marduk said:


> Can you talk more about that thefam?


No fair, Marduk. You KNOW how much I struggle with expressing myself. 

I believe that marriage is biblically defined: "the TWO (just 2) shall become ONE." Yes I know that God permitted multiple marriages in the Old Testament just as He permitted divorce: because of the hardness of their hearts. 

It also to me is weak boundaries which weakens the moral fiber of society in general. I know the politically correct opinion is that people should be able to do anything they want between two (or in this case 3 or more) consenting adults. I happen not to believe that at all. I believe that we all have a sphere of influence and that whether we are aware of it or not, somebody's watching us and being influenced by how we live our lives. So if Mommy and Daddy decide that they are going to go outside the confines of marriage, then it's probably okay for me to go outside other boundaries, maybe even outside the law. Actually anything goes, so anything that I want to do, that is what I will do. Why should I have boundaries anyway? 

Another reason is the intimacy. Intimacy to me is not just sex. It is sharing a life together as a couple. Of course there are others outside of the marriage that we have relationships with, but none other as intimately as our spouse. To me sharing that intimacy, which includes sex, just weakens to the bond of marriage and takes away what makes it, for lack of a better word, "special."

Just my humble beliefs, thoughts and opinions.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> Yes, I think this is the biggest problem. Most people (not all!) will tend to become competitive for attention.
> 
> Again, I believe it can work, but not for most people.


Richard, most people feel these things. We choose to face them and discuss them rather than avoid them.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

SomebodyS,
This fully resonates with me. 

Sometimes when M2 tells me the truth it hurts - same as an intense workout at the gym.... 



* not sexual jealousy - but just vanilla non sexual jealousy 


QUOTE=NobodySpecial;12567585]Richard, most people feel these things. We choose to face them and discuss them rather than avoid them.[/QUOTE]


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> SomebodyS,
> This fully resonates with me.
> 
> Sometimes when M2 tells me the truth it hurts - same as an intense workout at the gym....


Ha! I have said the same thing.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Not criticizing your PoV. Everyone is entitled to theirs. Just sharing my differing view.




thefam said:


> No fair, Marduk. You KNOW how much I struggle with expressing myself.
> 
> I believe that marriage is biblically defined: "the TWO (just 2) shall become ONE." Yes I know that God permitted multiple marriages in the Old Testament just as He permitted divorce: because of the hardness of their hearts.
> 
> ...


I mention this in a post above. For those of us who don't believe in either Bible, god or an authority who passes rules for us, this does not equate to an absence of moral thinking. (Necessarily. Goodness knows that there are plenty of immoral, whacked out people out there among all stripes, religious included.) Our moral thinking is based on attempting to assess right and wrong on its own merit. Based on compassion, caring and love, it is clearly wrong to hurt someone, to lie to someone... There is no need for someone else to compel me to these beleifs since they are better for ME when I live by them as they are for all the people I care about, and the people of my global community. To live otherwise hurts me, my mental health and my integrity. The notion that morality is contrary to the innate desires of people does not wash with me. We have higher brain function that allows us, even requires us, to use that higher function to determine right and wrong.

By that thinking, I see no reason to teach my children to live within the boundaries of a privileged legislature. I think it is their right, even responsibility, to challenge the law, even use nonviolent resistance and conscientious objection when evaluating laws. But follow them? No. Understand the consequences of NOT following them, absolutely. 




> Another reason is the intimacy. Intimacy to me is not just sex. It is sharing a life together as a couple. Of course there are others outside of the marriage that we have relationships with, but none other as intimately as our spouse. To me sharing that intimacy, which includes sex, just weakens to the bond of marriage and takes away what makes it, for lack of a better word, "special."
> 
> Just my humble beliefs, thoughts and opinions.


When I do something special with one of my kids, it in no way diminishes the specialness of an activity with the other kid. Loving one kid does not diminish the love of the other. For me, the same holds true with other forms of love. Loving one person does not diminish my love for another. We can easily see love as not a finite bucket that once empty nor more can be found when it comes from our kids. For polys the same is true.

Just my opinions.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Somebody,
I've often thought about the topic of vows. If I had a time machine I'd add some stuff about the the truth, about trust. 

If M2 predeceased me, that would be my biggest theme with anyone new. They'd have to get comfortable with me doing that telepathy lite thing I have with M2. And with me being relentless on the topic of deceit. 

Privacy - ok. Taking the fifth - we joke about that all the time. There's no shame in choosing not to be as transparent as your partner wants - in the moment. But I'm allergic to deceit. 

Indifference is to love as deceit is to intimacy. A true antonym....





NobodySpecial said:


> Not criticizing your PoV. Everyone is entitled to theirs. Just sharing my differing view.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> Do you care to discuss? Both "right" and "healthy"? I would be curious on your views of what it takes to be either of those things.


Sorry this took so long to respond.

To clear a few perceptions. I don't believe the state has the power to be involved with any relationship unless criminal activity is occurring, relationships with children, etc...

I don't believe you are committing a crime.

Now. I stated that I am not convinced that it is right or healthy because there doesn't seem to be much data on the long term impact of poly relationships on individuals and civilization.

The lack of data is a concern all by itself. I am not aware of any currently thriving civilization with poly families at the foundation.

I would also be interested in the generational stability of the poly lifestyle.

I have observed that throughout history, when a civilization elevated any alternative to hetero/mono relationships, to the point of being equal or superior, that civilization vanished.

Do to the lack of hard data, I would have to make an educated guess that any alternate lifestyle can be supported, in small percentages, by hetero/mono majorities.

I see no evidence that alternate lifestyles have been capable of building sustainable civilizations on their own. None that have stood the test of time and challenges to their existence.

That aside, I have many personal reservations but those might not be pertinent, again, not enough data.

Personally, I think you to be a rational and caring woman and I would probably be friends with you and your family. Any evidence gathered from your experience would be anecdotal at best however.

Several generations of poly families would need to be studied for any hard conclusions to be reached.

It is possible that poly is not even sustainable from generation to generation but that is yet another educated guess.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Sorry this took so long to respond.


No worries. It's all just fun and games.



> To clear a few perceptions. I don't believe the state has the power to be involved with any relationship unless criminal activity is occurring, relationships with children, etc...


Well that is not actually true. Well WE aren't. But I cannot say th same for some of the folks I know. Zoning laws in some places will prevent #s of families from cohabiting but not the equivalent # of singletons. In states where infidelity is criminal on the books, there have been cases of harassment despite consent.



> I don't believe you are committing a crime.
> 
> Now. I stated that I am not convinced that it is right or healthy because there doesn't seem to be much data on the long term impact of poly relationships on individuals and civilization.
> 
> ...


Actually so would yours. There is no real evidence whatsoever of polyamory having any causal effect on civilizations in the absence of wholesale corruption and self aggrandizement. And there is PLENTY of evidence of the generally messed up nature of social monogamy. While I don't have to, as you are welcome to your assessment, it is inadequate in my view.



> Several generations of poly families would need to be studied for any hard conclusions to be reached.
> 
> It is possible that poly is not even sustainable from generation to generation but that is yet another educated guess.


Actually to demonstrate that someone can be good and healthy only requires a data point of one. Whether or not it is sustainable across generations, I don't see why it would be interesting to be sustainable across generations. 

Bearing in mind that I don't give a poo about the institutionalization of relationships which you may not know.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

The nuclear family that strives for monogamy is the basic successful building block of modern industrialized society. The history, though, is mainly during the agricultural age during which there was no birth control. 

So today's conditions are very different. Family size is small. Many are consumers. Income does not come from family related economic activity for the most part.

It will take time to study. My guess is that the selfish gene will come through. Whatever produces the most children and does not lead to civil war or collapse will expand the limits of the definition of family.

Serial monogamy is already not so very different from polygamy, especially when cheating is common.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Long,
Beautifully phrased: nuclear family that 'strives' for monogamy




LongWalk said:


> The nuclear family that strives for monogamy is the basic successful building block of modern industrialized society. The history, though, is mainly during the agricultural age during which there was no birth control.
> 
> So today's conditions are very different. Family size is small. Many are consumers. Income does not come from family related economic activity for the most part.
> 
> ...


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> The nuclear family that strives for monogamy is the basic successful building block of modern industrialized society. The history, though, is mainly during the agricultural age during which there was no birth control.
> 
> So today's conditions are very different. Family size is small. Many are consumers. Income does not come from family related economic activity for the most part.
> 
> ...


The selfish gene always comes through, though I hope you have not read from this that polyamory is motivated by selfishness. Cuz that would mean I just wasted a ton of time.


----------



## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Nobody,
question. what if you or your husband said one morning that this lifestyle is not for him and just wanted a monogamous relationship again? do you feel you would be too far into this that you could not pull out of the lifestyle...and venture back to a monogamous relationship with your husband?


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Xenote said:


> Nobody,
> question. what if you or your husband said one morning that this lifestyle is not for him and just wanted a monogamous relationship again? do you feel you would be too far into this that you could not pull out of the lifestyle...and venture back to a monogamous relationship with your husband?


No. I would pull out immediately.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

The whole basis for this being a stable quad is the high selflessness factor. 

You and H fight, BF offers to step out of the picture. 

You're genuinely willing to stop if H asks. He's unwilling to ask you to give something up thats positive for you. 

In contrast a sexless marriage is often filled with a different spirit. 

And for the purpose of clarity - I'm neither pro HD nor pro LD. 

I'm just pro - be honest with your partner. And don't punish them for being honest with you. 





NobodySpecial said:


> No. I would pull out immediately.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> The whole basis for this being a stable quad is the high selflessness factor.
> 
> You and H fight, BF offers to step out of the picture.
> 
> You're genuinely willing to stop if H asks. *He's unwilling to ask you to give something up thats positive for you. *


I am not sure I understand. Why would he be "unwilling" to ask this. Are we assuming that this is not positive for him to? That would be an incorrect assumption.



> In contrast a sexless marriage is often filled with a different spirit.
> 
> And for the purpose of clarity - I'm neither pro HD nor pro LD.
> 
> I'm just pro - be honest with your partner. And don't punish them for being honest with you.


I agree. But it strikes me odd that you choose to make a comparison to sexlessness. I wonder about that.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> The whole basis for this being a stable quad is the high selflessness factor.
> 
> You and H fight, BF offers to step out of the picture.
> 
> ...


I never put that together...

Thanks for that.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Somebody,

You raise an interesting point regarding your H. I was indeed assuming there was an element of sacrifice on his part. And I have no basis for such an assumption. 

I admit to being a bit curious though. Do you believe your H feels as strongly about his 'girl friend' (hope I'm using the correct term), as you do about your boyfriend? 

As for the comment about sexlessness, my intention was not in any way to imply a connection between sexually broken marriages and polyamorous relationships. 

Nor was I attempting to imply that polyamory is only a favorable option when compared to a sexless monogamous relationship. 

Instead, I contrasted the two primarily to highlight the idea that polyamory seems predicated on accepting the truth about how we feel sexually. IMO this 'foundation in truth' is the basis for any sexually healthy relationship, whether or not it's monogamous. 

Based on my extensive reading here, that is radically different than sexless marriages which often seem crippled by a toxic stew of avoidance, denial and outright deception. 





NobodySpecial said:


> I am not sure I understand. Why would he be "unwilling" to ask this. Are we assuming that this is not positive for him to? That would be an incorrect assumption.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree. But it strikes me odd that you choose to make a comparison to sexlessness. I wonder about that.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> The selfish gene always comes through, though I hope you have not read from this that polyamory is motivated by selfishness. Cuz that would mean I just wasted a ton of time.


How human beings experience emotions and relationships and the selfish gene are two separate phenomenon. What we call "selfishness" in the context of relations is normative. The biological selfish gene is descriptive and makes no moral judgment.

All who are in monogamous relationships that have committed to monogamy are selfish in their demand for exclusivity. This selfishness conincides with an expression of the selfish gene, but few would consider this as a negative character trait.

I can imagine men and women being in sexual relationships with more than one person at a time. I can imagine love being central to both. If women in the harem of a powerful warrior could not have their husband to themselves, but had a good standard of living and many children, clearly their selfish genes benefited.

Is monogamous marriage beneficial to the selfish genes of beta males?


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> Somebody,
> 
> You raise an interesting point regarding your H. I was indeed assuming there was an element of sacrifice on his part. And I have no basis for such an assumption.
> 
> I admit to being a bit curious though. Do you believe your H feels as strongly about his 'girl friend' (hope I'm using the correct term), as you do about your boyfriend?


I don't believe it. I know it.


> As for the comment about sexlessness, my intention was not in any way to imply a connection between sexually broken marriages and polyamorous relationships.
> 
> Nor was I attempting to imply that polyamory is only a favorable option when compared to a sexless monogamous relationship.
> 
> ...


I understand and agree.


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## brownmale (Apr 20, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> Why here? Of course this place is not going to be sympathetic to non-monogamy and most people are against it. I am not against it, but the culture here is generally not interested in non-monogamy.


What about serial non-monogamy?


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