# My wife kicked me in the balls last night. Contemplating how to move forward.



## cabbagesfordays (5 mo ago)

I am 40, my wife is 42 and we have a 2.5yo boy together. Some history, for context:
The last 2 years together have been a bit of a nightmare, marriage-wise. We have lived abroad for almost a decade without family support and both are from different cultures. Around the time our son arrived, Covid was about to hit in full force. Additional to that, I was struggling with employment issues and ADHD, which I only got diagnosed with, around 6 months after my son was born. I know as a fact that she suffered a lof from my ADHD and even though things on that matter have improved tremendously, nothing ever seems to help. All these things play a huge part on why our marriage is struggling right now.

Fast forward to yesterday:
Generally the day started well although I was a bit grumpy having to drive through traffic on the way home, since she wanted to visit the grocery store, to pick something. No arguments whatsoever. We arrived home and I mentioned that I've been reading about the new electricity bill hikes in the UK (although my salary is good enough to not really have to worry about significantly). What has been bothering me, however is that my wife has never been involved in our finances. I am a single earner, take care of all the logistics around the house, including bills, rent, fixing things, driving, etc. She has been mostly taking care of our boy during the day and doing a large part of the cleaning. I have also been helping a lot in the house as well, which leaves a bitter taste in my mouth when each day goes by, feeling totally unappreciated.

Anyhow, we ended up having a disagreement around her lack of involvement, especially since the new electric prices are quite hefty. She got extremely upset and left the living room. I left soon after and went to my office, which is where I work from at home. And then the fire alarm starts ringing, waking up our son. Why the fire alarm, you would ask? Because when she left the kitchen she left the food on and didn't check it, until it almost got burned. I rushed to open the windows and help out and didn't even blamed her for what happened. She helped our son get back to sleep and that was it.

And then what happened is that she rushed into my office blaming me, that it was my fault the food was burned and because I left the kitchen after her, it was my responsibility. At that point I knew that If whatever is happening doesn't stop, I would likely lose my temper and shout, but endless fighting taught me that shouting = violence and all the words that trigger the shouting are not. So, I have been choosing to disengage from arguments lately, simply because they are literally unwinnable.

I stood up and asked her to leave my office immediately. I touched her arm, giving a very gentle push in indication that she needs to go (No grabbing or pushing hard), but her arm touched the door handle (She said she hit her elbow, but I find that hard to believe). She Immediately gave me a solid kick in the nuts, as If I intended to injure her. Not even a chance to step back and say anything. Our son woke up again and likely saw me in pain. Thankfully, I didn't get injured.

I've been in absolute shock since yesterday and I'm having a hard time being in the same room as she is. A kick in the balls is one of the most humiliating things for a man, especially when he doesn't deserve it. I've asked her to keep some distance for a while, until I get some advice and potentially legal advice too. She has not apologised and it's quite probable she thinks the kick was justified. We've had some really bad fights in the past, but I've never hit her. I have been slapped by her before, although it was quite a heated fight and I brought her to her limits.

I've been thinking of divorce/separation for a while now, but I can't stand looking in my son's eyes, imagining the pain he will have to endure. A divorce would also likely mean she has to leave the country, due to being a dependent visa. This brings risk of losing my son, which I will seriously fight to the death to prevent.

I'm sure a person doesn't just snap and become violent from one day to another. I'm quite likely responsible for a lot of her pain over the last 2 years. But nothing is ever enough. For months now, I feel I am being treated as a machine. It's always about giving her time to recover. No sex for months on end. I'm often feeling that my lips are sewn together and I can't talk, because nothing I say interests her. When when we fight I get gaslighted to the moon and back. She's always busy, always running out of time, even when she doesn't have to.

Just confused on how to move forward...Perhaps a comment will help me see things straight.

p.s. 1: It's hard to mention every little detail that's happened in years and I'm trying my best not to downplay how much I've been responsible in her suffering. But I just can't seem to brush off that kick in the balls. Not unless I really deserved it, or indeed it looked like I pushed her against the door handle and the kick is a reaction. I honestly would feel much better if it was a reaction, which I caused.

p.s. 2: We 've discussed in the past that she may be suffering by what's called 'Cassandra Syndrome', but she's not had any Counselling for that yet. I've discussed family counselling for both of us and I have not found someone suitable who is not fully booked, or charges extraneous amounts per session.

p.s. 3: One of the very few things we share in common currently, is our respect for each other being an amazing parent.


*EDIT: This morning my wife asked for her passport to take care of some things online having to do with my son's insurance in Korea. Knowing that she had my son's Korean passport I suggested she gives me his after she's done. She seemed quite upset, as she understood what I was thinking. She said me that it's not at all what she intends to do and gave me all the passports right after. She apologized for the kick, that It was not her intention to kick me in the balls and that it was a reaction to myself touching her, while things were heated. She says that we should consider separating, because this situation is way to destructive for us and our son. 

We are going to have a conversation today and discuss how to move forward, including Marriage counselling and trying to establish some rules/boundaries, so that we are not constantly in conflict in the meantime.

I'm not sure how it's going to work out in the end, we must take some actions immediately.*


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

This is the first time I have read a thread which is literally “getting kicked in the nuts for the children”.

Sorry OP but you should be thinking about divorce.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

You pushed her first. That started it. You pushed her hard enough for her to hit something else, so there's no point in denying that you started it. Once you lay hands on a woman, she has a right to defend herself.


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## cabbagesfordays (5 mo ago)

@ccpowerslave, apologies, but I'm nut sure what you mean "...for the children"
Perhaps I described wrongly?


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

You two don't belong together. You need to get that through your head. 

You need to put asides your fears, and realize that you are still in this relationship because of fears and lack of self respect, because you have been involved with someone that is bringing the worse on both you. Like I said is obvious that you two don't belong together. 

My advice is that things between you two will never get to be better, most likely worse, therefore you should divorce and coparent with the standard 50/50 split. I mean if you have the balls to do it.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

cabbagesfordays said:


> I've been thinking of divorce/separation for a while now, but I can't stand looking in my son's eyes, imagining the pain he will have to endure.





cabbagesfordays said:


> I'm nut sure what you mean "...for the children"


“…for the children” is a meme phrase often used as a sarcastic way when someone absorbs punishment and then they attribute the reason as a selfless act on behalf of children. Also commonly found as “think of the children”.

In your case you’re taking a kick to the pills and leaving yourself in that situation and the reason you give for it is your infant/toddler son is somehow going to understand what is going on and it will break his heart.

I think it fits the meme, although in this case it’s an extreme example where you’re literally getting kicked in the balls.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> You pushed her first. That started it. You pushed her hard enough for her to hit something else, so there's no point in denying that you started it. Once you lay hands on a woman, she has a right to defend herself.


OMG


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

To summarize:

Your wife has slapped you before.

You shoved her into the door. I see you're downplaying that but it might be a big deal to her.

She only takes her of your kid while you work so you don't think you should have to contribute at home.

She won't take part in finances. Does she spend a lot? Has she ever worked?

Prior to your adhd diagnosis you couldn't keep a job. How did you manage financially?

Answers to these questions will inform my advice.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Evinrude58 said:


> OMG


Well he does downplay shoving her....I wonder if she'd agree it was no big deal? One doesn't usually hit their elbow with a gentle nudge.

Having said that kicking him in the groin is waaaaay over the top.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

My perspective is this:
You do it all and feel unappreciated. You probably are. Kicking you in the balls? Hell even my evil ex didn’t do that.

Divorce is super hurtful. So is staying with a woman that won’t have sex with you, doesn’t pull her weight, is constantly unhappy, and complains. According to you, she doesn’t even enjoy a conversation with you.

my vote is to ditch the ball breaker. It’ll never get better.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Evinrude58 said:


> My perspective is this:
> You do it all and feel unappreciated. You probably are. Kicking you in the balls? Hell even my evil ex didn’t do that.
> 
> Divorce is super hurtful. So is staying with a woman that won’t have sex with you, doesn’t pull her weight, is constantly unhappy, and complains. According to you, she doesn’t even enjoy a conversation with you.
> ...


But he said she takes her of their kid and cleans all day so how does he do it all?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

My perspective is if he pulls all the weight of earning a living, she SHOULD take care of the chores at home. If that’s not her cup of tea, get out and get a job and they can share the chores.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> But he said she takes her of their kid and cleans all day so how does he do it all?


If she cleans all day, what needs doing when he gets home? He says he contributes a lot on that.

we are only hearing his perspective. The zero sex stands out as something that has the man seeing all her negative qualities, nit picking, etc. 

The only hope this marriage has is if he can figure out how he’s turning her off romantically and sexually, and she can start Working on things on her end so that it’s a more balanced relationship.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Evinrude58 said:


> If she cleans all day, what needs doing when he gets home? He says he contributes a lot on that.


That's what he said, so we need clarity on what that means.

I know in my house there's always stuff to be done. My impression was that since he works he feels he doesn't need to contribute at all in the home.

Hopefully he'll provide more details.


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## cabbagesfordays (5 mo ago)

*lifeistooshort*

I will answer your questions:

She only takes her of your kid while you work so you don't think you should have to contribute at home. 
Although partially true, my son is a very energetic child and needs constant attention. At 2.5 yo, he's quite hard to manage. I work in IT I can say that my job seems easier than taking care of our son all day. Just mentioning this to give credit where it's due. Having said that, being able to work at home, I am able to help quite a bit and my wife's physical strength is not her strong point.

You shoved her into the door. I see you're downplaying that but it might be a big deal to her: 
Shoving someone to the door sounds harsher by orders of magnitude. I'm not sure how else to put it, but it was in no way a violent push. I don't want to downplay this, but not sure how else I can explain it.

Does she spend a lot? Has she ever worked? 
She's not a big spender and primarily focuses on family spending. She had worked in her country and had a great career, but not since we moved to the UK in 2013.

Prior to your adhd diagnosis you couldn't keep a job. How did you manage financially? 
I was able to get a new job, before leaving the previous one. During late 2020, I was unemployed for around 6 months, but we had enough savings to live comfortably.


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## cabbagesfordays (5 mo ago)

lifeistooshort said:


> That's what he said, so we need clarity on what that means.
> 
> I know in my house there's always stuff to be done. My impression was that since he works he feels he doesn't need to contribute at all in the home.
> 
> Hopefully he'll provide more details.


Apart from work, I do house chores daily. Things like washing dishes, laundry, general cleaning, etc. But let me clarify that It's something that took me a while to do well (and more) and one of our main issues is disagreements on how to split chores and whether I am doing them well, or not.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

cabbagesfordays said:


> *lifeistooshort*
> 
> I will answer your questions:
> 
> ...


Ok, thanks for the details. My job has a component of IT and I deal with IT all the time so I know the field. Several of them are good friends of mine and I'm friendly with many more.

I've been both a stay at home parent and employed full time outside the home and at least to me the former was much harder. Having a job is mentally stimulating and I need that.

In her home country are women typically involved in finances? Cultural differences can be difficult to navigate.

Have you flat out told her that kicking you in the groin was uncalled for? I'd be curious about her response. You can't live with someone who's going to resort to that.


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## cabbagesfordays (5 mo ago)

Evinrude58 said:


> If she cleans all day, what needs doing when he gets home? He says he contributes a lot on that.
> 
> we are only hearing his perspective. The zero sex stands out as something that has the man seeing all her negative qualities, nit picking, etc.
> 
> The only hope this marriage has is if he can figure out how he’s turning her off romantically and sexually, and she can start Working on things on her end so that it’s a more balanced relationship.


I can tell you some complaints:

I am inconsistent in helping with chores and sometimes I don't do them well. 
I forget a lot, especially before taking my meds. This leads into some arguments where it looks like I'm fabricating facts, or lying. This was quite bad before I was diagnosed and got on meds, but it was 2 years ago and has improved quite significantly.
She cannot have a conversation with me and I'm always analyzing things and offering advice. Although she has merit, I feel the same in a different way and I think it boils down to huge character differences.


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## cabbagesfordays (5 mo ago)

lifeistooshort said:


> Ok, thanks for the details. My job has a component of IT and I deal with IT all the time so I know the field. Several of them are good friends of mine and I'm friendly with many more.
> 
> I've been both a stay at home parent and employed full time outside the home and at least to me the former was much harder. Having a job is mentally stimulating and I need that.
> 
> ...


In her home country women typically handle finances almost entirely and men bring the monthly pay home. When we got married she wasn't too eager in doing that and I've been doing it ever since. It doesn't bother me, because I am quite on point for taking care of financial responsibilities. It's the lack of interest from her in this that bothers me.

Culture difficulties are something that occasionally creates conflict. 

I have told her that what happened was uncalled for, but we have not spoken about this since yesterday, since I've asked to keep some things separate for the time being. She has not been hostile during this time, which shows potential regret. I'm not ready, however to have a discussion just yet.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

OP, what’s her reasoning on the no sex and how long are you going to accept that your wife has no romantic interest in you?


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> You pushed her first. That started it. You pushed her hard enough for her to hit something else, so there's no point in denying that you started it. Once you lay hands on a woman, she has a right to defend herself.


Ok so if I am berating my wife and she tries to push me to leave the room, I am good to go ahead and throat punch her...got it.


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## ah_sorandy (Jul 19, 2018)

cabbagesfordays said:


> *lifeistooshort*
> 
> I will answer your questions:
> 
> ...


An unwanted touch, even one that is very gentle, can be considered an assault. As the man in this relationship, you have no business in touching your W in anger or even in minor frustration. You need to keep your hands to yourself unless you know that touching her is acceptable.

Now, your W has no business slapping you or kicking you in your private parts. They are both an assault, and are incidents that are police reportable. However, how the police handle these, in different jurisdictions, varies widely.

You need to both keep your hands and feet to yourselves in any heated situations, no matter how minor they are!


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## cabbagesfordays (5 mo ago)

Evinrude58 said:


> OP, what’s her reasoning on the no sex and how long are you going to accept that your wife has no romantic interest in you?


She says she has romantic interest to some degree, but her reasons are exhaustion, our constant arguments, as well as dissatisfaction with how well I help out at home after work, or helping schedule activities for our son, etc...


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

cabbagesfordays said:


> In her home country women typically handle finances almost entirely and men bring the monthly pay home. When we got married she wasn't too eager in doing that and I've been doing it ever since. It doesn't bother me, because I am quite on point for taking care of financial responsibilities. It's the lack of interest from her in this that bothers me.
> 
> Culture difficulties are something that occasionally creates conflict.
> 
> I have told her that what happened was uncalled for, but we have not spoken about this since yesterday, since I've asked to keep some things separate for the time being. She has not been hostile during this time, which shows potential regret. I'm not ready, however to have a discussion just yet.


Can you share her home country? Is it like Japan where they are stoic?

If you knew she wasn't into finances when you married her why is it an issue?

Tell her directly that if she lays another hand on you you're out. Unless you want out right now.

Have you spoken to a lawyer regarding how a divorce would work in regards to your child? When you have children with someone from another country there's a risk they will go back with the kids. How far away is her hone country and does she have family near you?


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## cabbagesfordays (5 mo ago)

ah_sorandy said:


> An unwanted touch, even one that is very gentle, can be considered an assault. As the man in this relationship, you have no business in touching your W in anger or even in minor frustration. You need to keep your hands to yourself unless you know that touching her is acceptable.
> 
> Now, your W has no business slapping you or kicking you in your private parts. They are both an assault, and are incidents that are police reportable. However, how the police handle these, in different jurisdictions, varies widely.
> 
> You need to both keep your hands and feet to yourselves in any heated situations, no matter how minor they are!


I agree, but do you feel that getting kicked in the balls at the same level?


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

File divorce, make sure the kid does not have passport, if so, put it in a place she has no access to. That way this violent woman you married cant take your child and skip the country. She can leave, once divorce is final and child custody finalized, then she can get with you about travel of child back and fourth between countries so she can see start seeing your child again.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

cabbagesfordays said:


> I agree, but do you feel that getting kicked in the balls at the same level?


I don't...kicking you like that was over the top and unacceptable.

But I think you may not appreciate that mens anger can be scary to us and we're usually a lot smaller. So a shove from you will be much scarier to her then the same shove from her on you.

Even if you remove the physical aspect. I get mad sometimes and while my bf is probably annoyed by it he doesn't find it scary. When he gets mad it's unnerving to me. He doesn't get physical or anything but he's 6'3 and I'm 5'4, and in general women are more sensitive emotionally. If he was really mad and put his hands on me to push me out of the room it works freak me out even if it was gentle. Its an instinctual reaction.....especially if the anger was directly at me.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

You both are incredibly toxic to each other and once violence enters a relationship, it’s not a relationship anymore. I think you need to both rationally discuss separating and potentially moving on.


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## ah_sorandy (Jul 19, 2018)

cabbagesfordays said:


> I agree, but do you feel that getting kicked in the balls at the same level?


An assault is an assault, no matter how it is done.

Having said that, yes I think her reaction to kick you in your family jewels was NOT warranted. She should have simply warned you to keep your hands to yourself. Did she have a bruise on her elbow after contacting the door handle? I have hit my elbows on door handles and that hurts!


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ah_sorandy said:


> An unwanted touch, even one that is very gentle, can be considered an assault. As the man in this relationship, you have no business in touching your W in anger or even in minor frustration. You need to keep your hands to yourself unless you know that touching her is acceptable.
> 
> Now, your W has no business slapping you or kicking you in your private parts. They are both an assault, and are incidents that are police reportable. However, how the police handle these, in different jurisdictions, varies widely.
> 
> You need to both keep your hands and feet to yourselves in any heated situations, no matter how minor they are!


Police definitely count a push or shove as violent. That's because someone could hit their head on something and die and there have been people go to prison for that and say it's an accident. 

If police had been called on this he would be the one at fault because he started it by shoving her and she did hit herself on something but even if she hadn't he would still be the one and she would be self defense. You don't want to get in a fist fight with a man if you're a woman. If they attack you, you want to stop them, and that's not stupid. 

If this is a repeated pattern which I just bet you it is, they shouldn't even be together.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

cabbagesfordays said:


> She says she has romantic interest to some degree, but her reasons are exhaustion, our constant arguments, as well as dissatisfaction with how well I help out at home after work, or helping schedule activities for our son, etc...


So basically her reasons are a bunch of bs.
The constant arguments ……. Why are you participating? Takes two to tango. Share your opinion, acknowledge her feelings, walk away. Look what the arguing gets you.
So do what you feel is reasonable as far as your son and give a hard no and forget about the rest. Consider what she feels is fair and if you don’t feel it’s fair, ignore it. What’s she going to do at this point? Withhold sex? Divorce you? One she can do, other other shares already doing, so who cares.

See an attorney. Your marriage sucks


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## cabbagesfordays (5 mo ago)

lifeistooshort said:


> Can you share her home country? Is it like Japan where they are stoic?
> 
> If you knew she wasn't into finances when you married her why is it an issue?
> 
> ...


She's from South Korea. 

It's the lack of interest of our financial state that makes it an issue, not an interest in managing finances, if that makes it clear.

There's a law in Korea disallowing her from legally taking our child and running away. But, my son has both British and Korean passport. It's quite far from the UK and she has no family nearby.

I'm not sure how to move forward. I'm going to give it a few days and think and probably take some legal advice.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

See a Solicitor on Tuesday after the August Bank Holiday is over.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Police definitely count a push or shove as violent. That's because someone could hit their head on something and die and there have been people go to prison for that and say it's an accident.
> 
> If police had been called on this he would be the one at fault because he started it by shoving her and she did hit herself on something but even if she hadn't he would still be the one and she would be self defense. You don't want to get in a fist fight with a man if you're a woman. If they attack you, you want to stop them, and that's not stupid.
> 
> If this is a repeated pattern which I just bet you it is, they shouldn't even be together.


Mom raised me to not hit a lady. But she also said, "If she puts herself in a man's shoes, she is not a lady. She wants to act like a man, treat her like a man"

Raised my boys same way. During HS, there was this pretty little girl going around to guys punching them in the arm, I guess the guys thought they were trying to demonstrate they were tough or some crap. Any way she comes over to my son and draws a fist back....he just told her, "If you hit me, I'm gonna hit you back!" Then all the other boys had to start talking trash about it. He said if you feel froggy...jump. Maybe they were upset he did not want to be part of the abused beta ***** boy orbiters club.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Secure the passports out of her control first and foremost


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Police definitely count a push or shove as violent. That's because someone could hit their head on something and die and there have been people go to prison for that and say it's an accident.
> 
> If police had been called on this he would be the one at fault because he started it by shoving her and she did hit herself on something but even if she hadn't he would still be the one and she would be self defense. You don't want to get in a fist fight with a man if you're a woman. If they attack you, you want to stop them, and that's not stupid.
> 
> If this is a repeated pattern which I just bet you it is, they shouldn't even be together.


She probably hit herself reacting violently to him trying to get her to leave his office. Flailing about while screaming and her action being the cause of her elbow hitting door.

Same way a police officer trying to get someone to cooperate to leave and the person flailing their arm when cop touches their arm while the person screams don't touch me!


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

So you touched her arm gently to try and calm her down, no shoving or pushing her, just trying to comfort your wife and prevent argument and violence. In her mood she moves her arm back and banged her own elbow on the door, then blaming you, then taking more of her anger out on you by kicking you in the goolies. What next a knife in your goolies while sleeping? 

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

See a solicitor and get the best quick divorce you can. 

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## Lotsofheart73 (Oct 13, 2021)

If you feel you want to try to save the relationship, she has to be onboard with counseling immediately. If you talk to her and she does not agree then you can do nothing with this situation. Both of you need to agree that hitting, slapping , kicking etc is out of line. You cannot allow it to continue. If the two of you can both agree that both of you were somewhat in the wrong maybe you can move forward. If counseling is a go, then you can work on the other stuff. 

For all the other stuff you two can sit down and each list all that needs to be done to keep day to day life running smooth. Work together and decide who will do what and how shared duties will be handled. For things she feels you do not do “good enough”, agree to let her nicely show you again how to do it or explain what she sees wrong in the way you do it. And the same for the finances. Even if you agree to handle it, tell her she needs to know. Show her how you “do the bills”. Create an income & expense spreadsheet. Show her where the file is kept on the computer of file cabinet if you still use paper. Tell her you would like her to actively participate in the bills for 6 months so she can get a feel for it. And then after that you will continue to handle bills but all will be accessible to her and the two of you will schedule a day once every 3 months to catch up. Or something of the sort.

But bottom line, if both of you cannot get along without hitting each other it’s never going to work. You certainly don’t want you son seeing you to shove each other etc. And yes, I think kicking you in the balls to be way uncalled for. You were probably wrong to give her that little show but each of you have the opportunity to “be the bigger person” and walk away or walk out and not escalate to violence. Personally, I would have tobe cornered by my husband and scared before I went there. If he pushed me and I was upset about it, I would leave the house for awhile instead of kicking him.

Sorry for the long post. First & most important, she if she will do counseling and agree that both of you need to refrain from getting physical when arguing.


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## cabbagesfordays (5 mo ago)

Divinely Favored said:


> She probably hit herself reacting violently to him trying to get her to leave his office. Flailing about while screaming and her action being the cause of her elbow hitting door.
> 
> Same way a police officer trying to get someone to cooperate to leave and the person flailing their arm when cop touches their arm while the person screams don't touch me!


I think you've explained my situation better than I have.


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## cabbagesfordays (5 mo ago)

CrAzYdOgLaDy said:


> So you touched her arm gently to try and calm her down, no shoving or pushing her, just trying to comfort your wife and prevent argument and violence. In her mood she moves her arm back and banged her own elbow on the door, then blaming you, then taking more of her anger out on you by kicking you in the goolies. What next a knife in your goolies while sleeping?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


The way *Divinely Favored *explained it is the best I can think of. 

Yes, as much as I'd hate to admit, I've asked myself the question. What if a knife was there? Thinking about it makes me depressed, because I really don't know the answer to that.


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## cabbagesfordays (5 mo ago)

Lotsofheart73 said:


> If you feel you want to try to save the relationship, she has to be onboard with counseling immediately. If you talk to her and she does not agree then you can do nothing with this situation. Both of you need to agree that hitting, slapping , kicking etc is out of line. You cannot allow it to continue. If the two of you can both agree that both of you were somewhat in the wrong maybe you can move forward. If counseling is a go, then you can work on the other stuff.
> 
> For all the other stuff you two can sit down and each list all that needs to be done to keep day to day life running smooth. Work together and decide who will do what and how shared duties will be handled. For things she feels you do not do “good enough”, agree to let her nicely show you again how to do it or explain what she sees wrong in the way you do it. And the same for the finances. Even if you agree to handle it, tell her she needs to know. Show her how you “do the bills”. Create an income & expense spreadsheet. Show her where the file is kept on the computer of file cabinet if you still use paper. Tell her you would like her to actively participate in the bills for 6 months so she can get a feel for it. And then after that you will continue to handle bills but all will be accessible to her and the two of you will schedule a day once every 3 months to catch up. Or something of the sort.
> 
> ...


No need to apologize. Your post is quite down to earth and your advice is really what we should be doing. She is ok for counselling and I think we are both in agreement that we are in the wrong in many situations. I'm trying to find a good counselling service without having to go under, because the ones I seem to like are either overbooked, or charge well over £100/h. But yes, time is of the essence and it has to be done soon.

Honestly though, I feel quite broken from this. I never thought I'd be getting so hurt for trying to prevent a fight from escalating further. And it's even about the physical pain.


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## cabbagesfordays (5 mo ago)

MattMatt said:


> See a Solicitor on Tuesday after the August Bank Holiday is over.


I intend to. Thanks for the advice.


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## cabbagesfordays (5 mo ago)

Divinely Favored said:


> File divorce, make sure the kid does not have passport, if so, put it in a place she has no access to. That way this violent woman you married cant take your child and skip the country. She can leave, once divorce is final and child custody finalized, then she can get with you about travel of child back and fourth between countries so she can see start seeing your child again.


I don't have my son's Korean passport, but I have his British one and my wife's Korean passport, as well. We both know where they are. I will be putting them somewhere secure. If she comes asking for them, then I will know that she may have such intentions. If not, well, then not.


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## MiriamToo (5 mo ago)

cabbagesfordays said:


> I agree, but do you feel that getting kicked in the balls at the same level?


 You can take advice from divorced men if you want a blueprint for divorce and don't really care about your wife's perspective or just want sympathy. I wouldn't ask a divorced woman for advice on my husband's point of view unless I'm already packing his stuff. So I'm going to give you a married woman's point of view. Here it goes: I hope you are not pretending that when it comes to physical force there is an equal power relationship between men and women. Just as walking out of the kitchen, knowing that your wife (who likely does all the cooking) had left a pot on the stove, shows your level of self-absorption. You didn't seem to care that it could catch fire, as long as you didn't have to take responsibility for it. Ask yourself why you did that. If it was just carelessness or an accident, tell your wife that, and apologize, but you should've done that when it happened regardless of why you did it. She had every right to be very upset about something that serious. Although she now seems satisfied that she can defend herself against you, that doesn't mean she doesn't resent you for what started the argument, and dread having any future confrontations. She was right to walk away when the argument started in the kitchen, but unfortunately the pot etc. . . She is probably relieved that you are not talking to her right now. You want peace, make peace. You want war, keep up the good work. And your kid will suffer the consequences. But the kick, you say, was over the top, if you put your hands on a woman in anger, you should expect any reaction from now on. Equal force to remove your hand and stop you from physically forcing her out of the room could very well have been a kick to your most vulnerable part. I don't know how big you are in comparison to your wife, but usually bigger people feel comfortable using force against smaller people especially when they are losing an argument. I mention that because I was disturbed by how you associated arguing with "winning," which sounds like the only reason you engage your wife is to win an argument. That's a dangerous approach to marriage, especially when the stakes are high, and you feel comfortable with physical force. It also sounds like you start arguments when everything is going well because you see it as an opportunity to scold your wife when her guard is down. Or perhaps . . you think it will lead to a moment of passion and make-up sex when she sees the folly of her ways and begs for your forgiveness? I hope not. Since you were living in her country before, you know what it is like to have to make cultural adjustments. She left her job and career, her family, her friends, and now she has a child, and her only safety net is you. She must really love you. Why isn't that enough for you? Give her the same courtesy she gave you. Frankly, I don't believe you have any intention of leaving your wife (and it has little to do with your son). You want to control her better. That's all. If you love her, stop thinking that way. Ask her how she feels. (That's right, start with "[name/term of endearment here], how do you feel about managing household expenses." If she says, "I want you to do it." That's that. You can't control how she feels. You can ask why to try and understand. Tell her honestly that this is about your emotional needs, so she can understand you don't really care about her doing it, so much as getting the credit for the work. Just say, "[name/term of endearment], I need you to acknowledge the things I do well." Don't lay land mines if you want her to come closer, build a bridge. Actually, I want to thank you for this post, because it was a warning shot for me. I was not looking for anything near this topic but this was helpful. I have a lot of pent up resentment towards my husband since I started staying home, and I don't want it to come out in some crazy way. Honestly, I have been there on the brink of exploding, so I started suppressing my feelings, detaching from the marriage and from him. Many times I have tried to quietly tell him how I was feeling, and I felt he just brushed me aside and didn't listen or started talking about himself. That really hurt. So, I stopped trying and now avoid serious conversations with him. Recently, I just screamed at him over something small. Luckily he didn't try to stop me, but I think he knows by now it was about something else. Now I'm realizing the best way to approach those conversations would be when both of us have down time to really listen and have each other's undivided attention. I think I pick the wrong moments sometimes, and I'm sure I would react angrily if I was approached when trying to prepare dinner. Assuming you want the same courtesy, let your wife express her anger without thinking you have to control her to the point of making it combat or shut her down because you don't like what she is saying . She will love you more for not escalating it and letting her sound off every once in a while, instead of making everything about winning a point. I hope you work it out together.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

lifeistooshort said:


> When he gets mad it's unnerving to me. He doesn't get physical or anything but he's 6'3 and I'm 5'4, and in general women are more sensitive emotionally. If he was really mad and put his hands on me to push me out of the room it works freak me out even if it was gentle.


Also you can fight.

My wife is also 5’4” I am almost 6’5” and I train fighting. Physically there is no contest I could pick her up and throw her. I never get mad with her where it would be visible in any way. Generally I blame myself for being mad and take it out internally. My dad was mad and he never touched my mom but he was a ****. Same with my mom actually she is probably more violent than him.

Seeing their behavior as a kid I was reminded of what he told me as a boy. He said the lesson from Kung Fu is how you want to be. “Politeness with strength.” So that is what he taught us, do not get angry and show it but when someone steps to you then they get destroyed.

I have never raised my voice at any woman ever and probably never will. It’s not a good look.


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## So far so good (7 mo ago)

I wouldn’t hide your wife passport. She should be free to leave whenever she wishes. You will need to ask your lawyer about this.

in the meantime, avoid any contact with her.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

If the relationship has escalated to violence it needs to end. Full stop. You resent each other too much. The violence will escalate if this continues. Let her go back home and try to salvage her life, you can start over fresh.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

So far so good said:


> I wouldn’t hide your wife passport. She should be free to leave whenever she wishes. You will need to ask your lawyer about this.
> 
> in the meantime, avoid any contact with her.


Hiding her passport could land him in jail because it's trying to force her to stay. That pretty much says it all though.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Hiding her passport could land him in jail because it's trying to force her to stay. That pretty much says it all though.


It’s not kidnapping, I can’t remember what crime it is. He’s not allowed to hold her captive. At least not in the US, other countries are different. They’re also not supposed to be hitting each other, self defense is allowed but not outright violence. This “relationship” is crazy toxic and broken, I feel bad for both of them. I especially feel bad for the poor kid. It’s probably best for the child if he and the mother go back to her family.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Unlawful restraint or false imprisonment.
She can simply report it stolen and order another one and report it to the police.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

If things are becoming violent, just remember that it will be YOU being hauled away in handcuffs facing criminal charges and inprisonment. 

Women may have to defend themselves physically against bigger and more physically aggressively assailants. But men are at way more risk legally and have to be able to protect and defend themselves legally. 

If things are coming to physical blows, the best way to stay out of jail is to get out of the situation. If you can't deescalate and fix the relationship, then it would probably be best to dissolve it. 

You can either voluntarily dissolve the relationship somewhat on your terms and with somewhat of a custody arrangement with your son. or you can have it done for you while you sit in a jail cell while she takes everything and leaves you with nothing but a criminal record.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

He’s holding her hostage now according to you ladies. 😂 y’all are comical. He didn’t say he’s keep it, he just said he’d know if she asked about it, she planned on leaving and didn’t want her to take his child out of the country.
She kicked him in the nuts and he’s the wife beater. Lol. It just keeps getting better and better. 

Raise your voice in an argument? You’re verbally abusive.
Stop her foot with your balls? You’re a wife beater. 
put her passport where you know where it is so you can know if she’s going to sneak your child out of the country without your consent? You’re holding her hostage…..

My it’s a twisted world out there. Be careful OP. You can see how some people think.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> Ok so if I am berating my wife and she tries to push me to leave the room, I am good to go ahead and throat punch her...got it.


Whoops! That's now how this works!!! Don't you dare try to turn that double standard on its head with logic! 😆

Remember, in feminist man-hating land, violence against men = he had it coming. Violence against women means = send him to jail.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

cabbagesfordays said:


> We've had some really bad fights in the past, but I've never hit her. I have been slapped by her before, although it was quite a heated fight and *I brought her to her limits.*


Nope nope nope. She chose to kick you, that's 100% on her. DV offenders often blame the person they hit for their behaviour and it's not on. You are exactly zero responsible for her choice to kick you. Doesn't matter what you did or didn't say/do.



cabbagesfordays said:


> I can tell you some complaints:
> 
> I am inconsistent in helping with chores and *sometimes I don't do them well.*
> I forget a lot, especially before taking my meds. This leads into some arguments where it looks like I'm fabricating facts, or lying. This was quite bad before I was diagnosed and got on meds, but it was 2 years ago and has improved quite significantly.




So you don't do the chores to her standards? In your shoes I'd just stop doing them then, lol. I am ADHD myself so I get it, I forget things too on occasion. That is beyond your control AND you sought medical help (I have not), so she can't blame you for that.



Divinely Favored said:


> Secure the passports out of her control first and foremost


The child's absolutely. Not hers though, I wouldn't advise that.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Evinrude58 said:


> My perspective is if he pulls all the weight of earning a living, she SHOULD take care of the chores at home. If that’s not her cup of tea, get out and get a job and they can share the chores.


When he is working, she should be taking care of the child and things at home. When he is off work, they should both be doing the chores. Otherwise, she's working 24/7 and he gets evenings and weekends off.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

I have witnessed more women being physically/emotionally/mentally abusive than men. What the ****kkk women??? Men and women stop the ****innnng violence. Doing that **** you are not fit for a relationship, just for being alone and sad and pathetic. OP you deserve much much better. Get rid and enjoy single life for a while. Learn all the red flags before considering another partner.

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## cabbagesfordays (5 mo ago)

MiriamToo said:


> You can take advice from divorced men if you want a blueprint for divorce and don't really care about your wife's perspective or just want sympathy. I wouldn't ask a divorced woman for advice on my husband's point of view unless I'm already packing his stuff. So I'm going to give you a married woman's point of view. Here it goes: I hope you are not pretending that when it comes to physical force there is an equal power relationship between men and women. Just as walking out of the kitchen, knowing that your wife (who likely does all the cooking) had left a pot on the stove, shows your level of self-absorption. You didn't seem to care that it could catch fire, as long as you didn't have to take responsibility for it. Ask yourself why you did that. If it was just carelessness or an accident, tell your wife that, and apologize, but you should've done that when it happened regardless of why you did it. She had every right to be very upset about something that serious. Although she now seems satisfied that she can defend herself against you, that doesn't mean she doesn't resent you for what started the argument, and dread having any future confrontations. She was right to walk away when the argument started in the kitchen, but unfortunately the pot etc. . . She is probably relieved that you are not talking to her right now. You want peace, make peace. You want war, keep up the good work. And your kid will suffer the consequences. But the kick, you say, was over the top, if you put your hands on a woman in anger, you should expect any reaction from now on. Equal force to remove your hand and stop you from physically forcing her out of the room could very well have been a kick to your most vulnerable part. I don't know how big you are in comparison to your wife, but usually bigger people feel comfortable using force against smaller people especially when they are losing an argument. I mention that because I was disturbed by how you associated arguing with "winning," which sounds like the only reason you engage your wife is to win an argument. That's a dangerous approach to marriage, especially when the stakes are high, and you feel comfortable with physical force. It also sounds like you start arguments when everything is going well because you see it as an opportunity to scold your wife when her guard is down. Or perhaps . . you think it will lead to a moment of passion and make-up sex when she sees the folly of her ways and begs for your forgiveness? I hope not. Since you were living in her country before, you know what it is like to have to make cultural adjustments. She left her job and career, her family, her friends, and now she has a child, and her only safety net is you. She must really love you. Why isn't that enough for you? Give her the same courtesy she gave you. Frankly, I don't believe you have any intention of leaving your wife (and it has little to do with your son). You want to control her better. That's all. If you love her, stop thinking that way. Ask her how she feels. (That's right, start with "[name/term of endearment here], how do you feel about managing household expenses." If she says, "I want you to do it." That's that. You can't control how she feels. You can ask why to try and understand. Tell her honestly that this is about your emotional needs, so she can understand you don't really care about her doing it, so much as getting the credit for the work. Just say, "[name/term of endearment], I need you to acknowledge the things I do well." Don't lay land mines if you want her to come closer, build a bridge. Actually, I want to thank you for this post, because it was a warning shot for me. I was not looking for anything near this topic but this was helpful. I have a lot of pent up resentment towards my husband since I started staying home, and I don't want it to come out in some crazy way. Honestly, I have been there on the brink of exploding, so I started suppressing my feelings, detaching from the marriage and from him. Many times I have tried to quietly tell him how I was feeling, and I felt he just brushed me aside and didn't listen or started talking about himself. That really hurt. So, I stopped trying and now avoid serious conversations with him. Recently, I just screamed at him over something small. Luckily he didn't try to stop me, but I think he knows by now it was about something else. Now I'm realizing the best way to approach those conversations would be when both of us have down time to really listen and have each other's undivided attention. I think I pick the wrong moments sometimes, and I'm sure I would react angrily if I was approached when trying to prepare dinner. Assuming you want the same courtesy, let your wife express her anger without thinking you have to control her to the point of making it combat or shut her down because you don't like what she is saying . She will love you more for not escalating it and letting her sound off every once in a while, instead of making everything about winning a point. I hope you work it out together.


Well, that's a lot to take in, but thanks for going ahead and sharing your thoughts. I'm not going to agree with everything here, especially the controlling part, that I see arguing as winning, or that I'm expecting make-up sex to feel better. That looks cheap and If I was like that she should have left me already.

That's my perspective, however. It could be that she somehow feels like that.


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## cabbagesfordays (5 mo ago)

Evinrude58 said:


> He’s holding her hostage now according to you ladies. 😂 y’all are comical. He didn’t say he’s keep it, he just said he’d know if she asked about it, she planned on leaving and didn’t want her to take his child out of the country.
> She kicked him in the nuts and he’s the wife beater. Lol. It just keeps getting better and better.
> 
> Raise your voice in an argument? You’re verbally abusive.
> ...


Well, after seeing some of the messages above, yes I am going to be a bit careful. I never said I'm holding anyone hostage.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

cabbagesfordays said:


> Well, after seeing some of the messages above, yes I am going to be a bit careful. I never said I'm holding anyone hostage.


yes, but... do you really want to risk your son being take to South Korea and never see him again? It happens all the time. If you have a safe, put them in there for the time being.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Unlawful restraint or false imprisonment.
> She can simply report it stolen and order another one and report it to the police.


And if she reports it to the police she will definitely be ending the marriage. I wouldn’t withhold her passport because it’s going to escalate things in a crazy way. I like the idea of putting them in the safe so she has to ask him where they are. Then he’s not holding them, he’s secured them like most people do and can be aware. (I have no idea where my passport is, my husband put it somewhere. If I needed it, I would have to ask him where it is. He's not "holding" it, he's keeping track of it. It's probably in the gun safe, he's told me the combination a dozen times but I've slept since then so I'd have to ask. I'm not a hostage, at all.) Although I think too that it would be better if she went back home. Just not without his knowledge.

They should just divorce. Things are way out of hand now, they’ve gotten physical and there’s no coming back from that. It doesn’t sound like her response was proportional, which means she’s either a violent loon or she is unreasonably angry at him. None of this is good for their child. It’s all too toxic.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I would equate being kicked in the balls to being kicked or punched in the stomach for a woman and if any man does that to me I am out. Unacceptable.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> I would equate being kicked in the balls to being kicked or punched in the stomach for a woman and if any man does that to me I am out. Unacceptable.


Exactly. That level of violence is NEVER justified. For men or for women. There is no excuse for that, no matter what she said, no matter what he did. Now, if he's attacking her, every self defense teacher, friend, boyfriend and even my husband have told me not to fight fair, strike as hard as I can in the most sensitive spot and run away. But in self defense. He shouldn't be pushing her around, no. Being her husband does NOT mean he can shove her or slap her. But unless he shoved her to the ground and was about to beat her, her reaction was disproportionate. It sounds like she completely lost her temper, which means the hate and resentment between them is so much that she's losing control of herself. They need to be divorced like, yesterday.


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## csj77 (May 6, 2018)

cabbagesfordays said:


> I don't have my son's Korean passport, but I have his British one and my wife's Korean passport, as well. We both know where they are. I will be putting them somewhere secure. If she comes asking for them, then I will know that she may have such intentions. If not, well, then not.


You have zero right to be holding on to your wife’s passport.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

csj77 said:


> You have zero right to be holding on to your wife’s passport.


As her husband, he (like everyone else in the whole world) can put her passport in the family safe which she has the combination to I’d assume. If she has any sense, she’s put his passport in there if it weren’t already. 

Why are people here continuously pretending he’s keeping her passport from her which he has made clear he isn’t doing.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> As her husband, he (like everyone else in the whole world) can put her passport in the family safe which she has the combination to I’d assume. If she has any sense, she’s put his passport in there if it weren’t already.
> 
> Why are people here continuously pretending he’s keeping her passport from her which he has made clear he isn’t doing.


The OP needs to change the combination, if he puts it in the safe. Putting the passport in the safe doesn't equal to withholding the passport. The wife can have it back if she asks for it. 
The OP doesn't want his wife disappearing with the kid in the middle of the night. By putting it in the safe, the OP will be alerted of a possible kidnapping of the child.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

It's not up to him to put her passport in a safe and she should not have to ask for it.


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## cabbagesfordays (5 mo ago)

Evinrude58 said:


> As her husband, he (like everyone else in the whole world) can put her passport in the family safe which she has the combination to I’d assume. If she has any sense, she’s put his passport in there if it weren’t already.
> 
> Why are people here continuously pretending he’s keeping her passport from her which he has made clear he isn’t doing.


I'm honestly unsure why some people think this, if they've read my posts. I've also updated the OP.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

DownByTheRiver said:


> It's not up to him to put her passport in a safe and she should not have to ask for it.


She doesn't even know where it is... so she will have to ask her husband anyway.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Get ready to pay attorney fees if you hold her passport in any way. 



https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/my-ex-wife-is-holding-my-passports-and-other-docum-5564927.html


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Get ready to pay attorney fees if you hold her passport in any way.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/my-ex-wife-is-holding-my-passports-and-other-docum-5564927.html


Is that for XW or W? Note I'm not saying it's ok for him to keep it from her if that's his goal but it sounds like that's not his goal.

Every now and then W and I ask each other where passports are, mostly they stay in the safe. 
Except mine last time was in by sock drawer where I had put it when cleaning off my dresser.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Is that for XW or W? Note I'm not saying it's ok for him to keep it from her if that's his goal but it sounds like that's not his goal.
> 
> Every now and then W and I ask each other where passports are, mostly they stay in the safe.
> Except mine last time was in by sock drawer where I had put it when cleaning off my dresser.


It's for anybody.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Fight Or Flight Response - Psychology Tools


The Fight Or Flight Response is a characteristic set of body reactions that occur in response to threat or danger. This client information sheet describes the bodily consequences of the fight or flight response. Download for free now.




www.psychologytools.com




.


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## 342693 (Mar 2, 2020)

A woman kicks me in the balls and I'm showing her the door.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

When I read the title of your post, I thought it was something metaphorical, but nope, you were actually assaulted by your own wife.

In my mind, anything to do with physical violence is a hard pass. If she is doing this now, things will only get worse. Should have you watched the food while it cooked? Probably, since someone had to. You probably shouldn't have touched her when asking her to leave the room. I'm guessing she read further into that, and thought it might escalate, so she snapped.

So, about getting advice on what to do now, I think this is a good first step. Definitely start compiling information and a list. If it were me in this situation, I would ask her for a separation as well, to give each other some physical space. She needs counselling to get to the root of her anger issues, and you need some too, to figure out why you stay with someone who hits and kicks you. 

In regards to staying for your son, don't. If you do, you are teaching him that it's OK for women to abuse him, and he will think that that's what a healthy relationship is. The only tricky part of this is that if you do divorce, she might leave the country, taking your son with you. Obtain legal advice here ASAP. Talk to more than one lawyer.

As to the couple's counselling, I guess the exorbitant cost of it will depend on whether or not you want to save your marriage. Is it worth it to you? Before I separated from my former husband, I came here and talked to people. Then I found a good therapist who really helped me out. I knew what I had to do well before then, but wanted to make sure that I covered all my bases first. In the end, I wanted to look back and confidently say, "I did everything that I could to save this marriage."

Cassandra Syndrome... So that means that you're an Aspie as well as having ADHD?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

If she should take off with the son illegally, then he goes to an attorney and has them get an order to freeze the passport. If she's already gone, next time the passport is checked they will be detained.

But right now he hasn't filed for divorce so she could travel wherever she wants with the son. 

In my opinion he should let her leave with the son until they decide if they want to file or stay together. Ideally, he should leave so she doesn't feel she has to flee and to cause less disruption with the child. It will keep him out of trouble to some extent. He can't hold their passports.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

SCDad01 said:


> A woman kicks me in the balls and I'm showing her the door.


A voice of sanity!


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Get ready to pay attorney fees if you hold her passport in any way.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/my-ex-wife-is-holding-my-passports-and-other-docum-5564927.html


What do you mean by hold? If he puts her passport away for safe keeping is that holding on to it? Even if he will just hand it over if she asks? My wife put my passport away and I'm not sure where, should I call an attorney?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> What do you mean by hold? If he puts her passport away for safe keeping is that holding on to it? Even if he will just hand it over if she asks? My wife put my passport away and I'm not sure where, should I call an attorney?


You know as well as I do what his intention is here, so why are you pretending to act like his motives are innocent? It's not his. He bullied her and she may want to get out of there.


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## Lynnevicious (Apr 25, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> If she should take off with the son illegally, then he goes to an attorney and has them get an order to freeze the passport. If she's already gone, next time the passport is checked they will be detained.
> 
> But right now he hasn't filed for divorce so she could travel wherever she wants with the son.
> 
> In my opinion he should let her leave with the son until they decide if they want to file or stay together. Ideally, he should leave so she doesn't feel she has to flee and to cause less disruption with the child. It will keep him out of trouble to some extent. He can't hold their passports.


What?!
Just… let her leave the country with his child? Not that simple. Many times, once they leave the country, they’re gone. And it can take years, if at all, to get your child back. 

If I had a fight like that with my ex h and he even so much as hinted at something like that, I would take my sons passport. I’d throw hers at her though and send her on her way if that’s what she wants to do. 

Op, just go see an attorney stat and dont listen to advice like this, unless you potentially don’t want to ever see your son again. 

Btw, protect yourself. She assaulted you. An arrestable offense. Write down the date and time it happened or get her to admit it it in text so you’re covered maybe. 

But the other posters are right about men being on the hook way more often for invisible assaults and fake domestic violence reports. Just read some of the posts here.


----------



## csj77 (May 6, 2018)

Evinrude58 said:


> As her husband, he (like everyone else in the whole world) can put her passport in the family safe which she has the combination to I’d assume. If she has any sense, she’s put his passport in there if it weren’t already.
> 
> Why are people here continuously pretending he’s keeping her passport from her which he has made clear he isn’t doing.


You know exactly what you and others are suggesting when telling him to “put her passport in the safe”
She can put her own passport away for safekeeping.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Lynnevicious said:


> What?!
> Just… let her leave the country with his child? Not that simple. Many times, once they leave the country, they’re gone. And it can take years, if at all, to get your child back.
> 
> If I had a fight like that with my ex h and he even so much as hinted at something like that, I would take my sons passport. I’d throw hers at her though and send her on her way if that’s what she wants to do.
> ...


He assaulted her first so what she did was self-defense and if he tries to keep her from leaving now that will be an added charge.


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

cabbagesfordays said:


> I can tell you some complaints:
> 
> I am inconsistent in helping with chores and sometimes I don't do them well.
> I forget a lot, especially before taking my meds. This leads into some arguments where it looks like I'm fabricating facts, or lying. This was quite bad before I was diagnosed and got on meds, but it was 2 years ago and has improved quite significantly.
> She cannot have a conversation with me and I'm always analyzing things and offering advice. Although she has merit, I feel the same in a different way and I think it boils down to huge character differences.


The marriage counseling is a good idea. Give the marriage counselor a brief version of your first post plus the list of complaints and information about your diagnosis. Tell her that you want your wife to go through an anger management course and if she thinks it would help, you as well.

As an aside, a woman I was dating, once tried to kick me in the testicles (actually knee me). Previously we had dated for a couple months, we have brought each other to orgasms many times, but not yet had sexual intercourse with each other. She found herself getting extremrly turned on one night we were making out, was afraid of what she wanted to do and in a panic didn't trust herself and wanted to end things. It did absolutely end our relationship. She apologized later and explained she didn't mean to hurt me, that she had a panic attack about what she wanted to do. However, I never felt I could ever again let my guard down around that woman. It totally ended my wanting to be anywhere near her.

Being intimate involves being about to trust and be vulnerable with someone. Your wife, by doing what she did, she crossed a huge relationship line. You might want to discuss with the marriage counselor what the two of you can do (if anything) so that you can ever feel comfortable being vulnerable with your wife. To me what she did was a huge relationship killer, for which apologies can never repair, even with a child.

Also talk to an attorney about if you can file a restraining order to keep her from taking you child out of the counrty, or have her turn your child's passport over to a third party for keeping until things get sorted out.


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## Lynnevicious (Apr 25, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> He assaulted her first so what she did was self-defense and if he tries to keep her from leaving now that will be an added charge.


100% wrong. She did both Assault and battery. Him moving her arm, moving her out of way etc is not assault. Kicking him in the balls is. 

If anyone would be charged, it would be her.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Lynnevicious said:


> 100% wrong. She did both Assault and battery. Him moving her arm, moving her out of way etc is not assault. Kicking him in the balls is.
> 
> If anyone would be charged, it would be her.


No she didn't. He started it by bullying and shoving her, and she reacted how people react when they're surprised by an assault and defended herself. He is the only one who's done something illegal at this point. Now he's contemplating doing something else illegal.

People who get assaulted by their husbands often want to leave the house with their child and I don't think either police or a court is going to find that unreasonable unless she does try to go overseas. But they'll have to work out custody eventually. If police have called they would have made him go someplace else for the night at least.

It's pathetic that anyone thinks women should just sit there and take it. Makes me want to vomit.

And all we're getting is his side where he's down playing what he did but admits it nonetheless. Do you know how many times police have heard that same spiel?


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## Lynnevicious (Apr 25, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> No she didn't. He started it by bullying and shoving her, and she reacted how people react when they're surprised by an assault and defended herself. He is the only one who's done something illegal at this point. Now he's contemplating doing something else illegal.
> 
> People who get assaulted by their husbands often want to leave the house with their child and I don't think either police or a court is going to find that unreasonable unless she does try to go overseas. But they'll have to work out custody eventually. If police have called they would have made him go someplace else for the night at least.
> 
> ...


I will grant you that it would be better to give advice on this situation if we had both sides to the story. Unfortunately, we only have his. And according to his story, she assaulted him. 

Now, there are three sides to every story. His, hers and the truth. The truth is probably between what he’s claiming and her story. 

I divorced my ex husband as he was abusive - including physical. Many police reports and calls. The only time my ex actually got arrested is when he put his hands around my throat and held me down. The result was a ‘false imprisonment’ charge. I even told the cop that I pushed past him when leaving the room, before the violence. That push is not assault, and as far as I know, they will not charge for assault unless there is some kind of injury or the threat to injure. 

If indeed his statement is true that he gently took her by the arm to move her, it. Is. Not. Assault. 

Op, since your marriage has deteriorated into physical violence, whether perpetrated by her or you, it’s now over. You both absolutely need a cooling down period. And you need to contact a lawyer asap to know your rights.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Lynnevicious said:


> I will grant you that it would be better to give advice on this situation if we had both sides to the story. Unfortunately, we only have his. And according to his story, she assaulted him.
> 
> Now, there are three sides to every story. His, hers and the truth. The truth is probably between what he’s claiming and her story.
> 
> ...


He's already admitted he shoved her and it made her hit her elbow on something. Where are you getting gentle from that? And that's what he's admitting to.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> He's already admitted he shoved her and it made her hit her elbow on something. Where are you getting gentle from that? And that's what he's admitting to.


I hear you, but he didn't say he shoved her. If he did of course that's wrong.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I hear you, but he didn't say he shoved her. If he did of course that's wrong.


He was putting his hands on her to throw her out of his office. Also in his narrative you'll notice he's had past problems with fighting. If he wanted to disengage from her as he said, he could have left the office himself instead of putting hands on her to make her leave the office. 

He bullied her. He put his hands on her with some degree of force, which made her hit something, and she reacted in a defensive manner as our survival fight or flight instincts will have us do. He tried to bully a smaller woman and it backfired on him. 

And now he's trying to stop her from getting away, also illegal. 

I hope she is working and has her own money so she has some options here. He's trying to control her right now when any woman would be trying to think of how to get away from him and keep their child safe.


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## cabbagesfordays (5 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> He was putting his hands on her to throw her out of his office. Also in his narrative you'll notice he's had past problems with fighting. If he wanted to disengage from her as he said, he could have left the office himself instead of putting hands on her to make her leave the office.
> 
> He bullied her. He put his hands on her with some degree of force, which made her hit something, and she reacted in a defensive manner as our survival fight or flight instincts will have us do. He tried to bully a smaller woman and it backfired on him.
> 
> ...


Throwing her out of my office? Bullying? Stopping her from getting away? What you're describing is a complete misinterpretation of everything I described in my op, or further responses. I even updated the op to reflect the passport discussion. Perhaps, If you spent less time arguing with others on this thread, you would've read that. Or, you know, you could have asked me, instead. Anyway, I have problems of my own to look into and I'm not going argue.

I came here for advice. Thankfully I got some really good advice and for that I am grateful. That is all.


----------



## cabbagesfordays (5 mo ago)

Lynnevicious said:


> I will grant you that it would be better to give advice on this situation if we had both sides to the story. Unfortunately, we only have his. And according to his story, she assaulted him.
> 
> Now, there are three sides to every story. His, hers and the truth. The truth is probably between what he’s claiming and her story.
> 
> ...


I understand where you're coming from. To give proper context of the story, I would have to write down 2 years worth of Marriage experiences and a total of around 10 years since I met my wife. And then my wife would have to do the same. That wouldn't be possible. So, I did my best to describe the situation, so that I can get some advice.


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## Lynnevicious (Apr 25, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> He's already admitted he shoved her and it made her hit her elbow on something. Where are you getting gentle from that? And that's what he's admitting to.


Right here:

<quote> I stood up and asked her to leave my office immediately. I touched her arm, giving a very gentle push in indication that she needs to go (No grabbing or pushing hard), but her arm touched the door handle 
</quote>

You’re projecting and rewriting everything the op said in his post. It’s not helpful to any op when man-bashing and filling in any imaginary holes with your own ideas. #FakeNews


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@cabbagesfordays ,

I have no doubt that her version of the argument would be that you picked on her for days, shoved her against the door, and that in attempting to keep herself from falling, her toe ever-so-gracefully brushed past your balls. LOL 

It is human nature to minimize one's own side and maximize the other party's side.

Clearly from across the internet, we can't tell who did what, who started it, who injured who, etc. We weren't there. And even if police were called, they can't tell who did what, who started it, or who injured who either. What we CAN tell is that your marriage is such that it is abusive. And we can also tell that it's physically abusive because pushing, shoving, grabbing, kicking, slapping, breaking things or punching...these are all physical things. When someone intentionally causes injury or trauma to another person by way of bodily contact, that is physical abuse. And to me, the trauma part comes in when someone uses physical behaviors to scare or threaten or intimidate.

In this instance, I don't think it really matters who started it. What does matter is that it went there. My advice would be to physically separate for some considerable time. During the time apart, the goal is for you to work on yourself and if you have anger issues or need counseling for trauma or whatever you need to work on--do that. Don't "help" her or "suggest" that she do anything--if she does of her own accord great, but if she doesn't you are no longer in harm's way nor is she in harm's way or able to blame you! YOU do you, let her do her. And for the time apart to be legally equitable you'll probably need some legal advice and some court orders. One of the two of you may not be cooperative, and may try to continue to threaten and intimidate--and the court has the power to ENFORCE what has been determined to be fair. You don't. 

So #1 get to safety for you and for her. #2 see a lawyer to iron out an agreement that is legally binding while you are apart.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Lynnevicious said:


> Right here:
> 
> <quote> I stood up and asked her to leave my office immediately. I touched her arm, giving a very gentle push in indication that she needs to go (No grabbing or pushing hard), but her arm touched the door handle
> </quote>
> ...


And this is the quote that @cabbagesfordays says is a good explanation of how it went down:


Divinely Favored said:


> She probably hit herself reacting violently to him trying to get her to leave his office. Flailing about while screaming and her action being the cause of her elbow hitting door.
> 
> Same way a police officer trying to get someone to cooperate to leave and the person flailing their arm when cop touches their arm while the person screams don't touch me!


I'm not saying cabbages is an angel. We know from the first post he is not...and for that matter none of us are. But I am saying to stick to the facts. We don't know all the facts. We have his side. But a person who would kick someone squarely in the balls might also be a person who was so wound up they were screaming and flailing. 

@cabbagesfordays regarding your son and the concern that she'll take him and head for Korea, I'd STRONGLY recommend speaking with an attorney and following that advice. It does seem to be common sense to put your passport(s) and your son's passport(s) in something like a safe deposit box in the bank. However, none of us here are lawyers from the UK... so listen to your attorney.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

cabbagesfordays said:


> Throwing her out of my office? Bullying? Stopping her from getting away? What you're describing is a complete misinterpretation of everything I described in my op, or further responses. I even updated the op to reflect the passport discussion. Perhaps, If you spent less time arguing with others on this thread, you would've read that. Or, you know, you could have asked me, instead. Anyway, I have problems of my own to look into and I'm not going argue.
> 
> I came here for advice. Thankfully I got some really good advice and for that I am grateful. That is all.


So why didn't YOU just leave the office yourself instead of using physical contact on her if you just wanted to disengage?

" I know as a fact that she suffered a lof from my ADHD and even though things on that matter have improved tremendously, nothing ever seems to help. "

What does that mean, "she suffered a lot from my ADHD"?

Is this what you were talking about?








Are Adults with ADHD Violent?


Not all adults with ADHD have violent tendencies, but some may be more aggressive or prone to anger than others.




psychcentral.com





or more like this:









ADHD and Lying: Is there a correlation?


Although no research yet shows a correlation between ADHD and lying, it can become a coping mechanism for some.




psychcentral.com


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Lynnevicious said:


> Right here:
> 
> <quote> I stood up and asked her to leave my office immediately. I touched her arm, giving a very gentle push in indication that she needs to go (No grabbing or pushing hard), but her arm touched the door handle
> </quote>
> ...


Maybe you missed the "push" part.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ccpowerslave said:


> Also you can fight.
> 
> My wife is also 5’4” I am almost 6’5” and I train fighting. Physically there is no contest I could pick her up and throw her. I never get mad with her where it would be visible in any way. Generally I blame myself for being mad and take it out internally. My dad was mad and he never touched my mom but he was a ****. Same with my mom actually she is probably more violent than him.
> 
> ...


I cam definitely fight, but you have to think if ir like a class of cars. I'm a little compact car who could probably wreck most other compact cats, but my bf is a semi. He's holding up great and can more then take on other semis.....my compact cat self would get totaled unless I managed to clip him to get him to run off the road while I drove away 😀

You know when you train to fight lesson one is never underestimate your opponent. Lesson 2 is be very careful before you escalate into the physical.....once that can is opened you don't know for sure what's coming out. The reaction here was definitely disproportional and uncalled for but that can happen. 

Especially with a less opponent who might panic and resort to dirty tactics.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Arguments happen in marriages and people get in one another’s faces sometimes and it’s only natural to react to get the other out of their face. OP clearly did something to make her super mad……… wanting her to get out of his office and leave him alone sounds reasonable when she’s wanting to argue. It’s HIS office. HIS escape place. Kicking one’s husband in the balls is a vindictive, aggressive, super humiliating thing to do unless she actually thought she was in real danger….. Doesn’t sound like she was that fearful or she’d be gone with all her stuff right now, 
He doesn’t sound like he wants any part of keeping her passport from her, but does his son’s, which is wise.

OP, see an attorney. No sex and she’s literally a ball breaker. At least get some options.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

DownByTheRiver said:


> No she didn't. He started it by bullying and shoving her, and she reacted how people react when they're surprised by an assault and defended herself. He is the only one who's done something illegal at this point. Now he's contemplating doing something else illegal.
> 
> People who get assaulted by their husbands often want to leave the house with their child and I don't think either police or a court is going to find that unreasonable unless she does try to go overseas. But they'll have to work out custody eventually. If police have called they would have made him go someplace else for the night at least.
> 
> ...


This is a good example of he said, she said. One of the pieces of training I was provided was that in a confrontation if you use more than proportional response, you may loose your right to claim self defense. I am not sure that kicking a man in the testicles would rise to an inappropriate and non-proportional res[onse, but that would be a decision for a jury. Some countries, like the UK, view agression from kind of an extreme viewpoint. A shove or push with a response of kicking to the testicles, could be viewed as an escalation of the level of force within the controntation.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Hiding her passport could land him in jail because it's trying to force her to stay. That pretty much says it all though.


For God’s sake, get out of your own persistent narrative.
He’s not trying to force her to stay, he’s trying to make sure she doesn’t take his kid and leave the country.
If he’s concerned she might split the country with his kid, he’d be remiss if he didn’t secure the kid’s passports.
That being said, yes, he should leave her passport alone (assuming the kid’s is secure).


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> The OP needs to change the combination, if he puts it in the safe. Putting the passport in the safe doesn't equal to withholding the passport. *The wife can have it back if she asks for it*.
> The OP doesn't want his wife disappearing with the kid in the middle of the night. By putting it in the safe, the OP will be alerted of a possible kidnapping of the child.


Exactly. And she can have it whenever she wants it, as long as she’s not also in possession of his son’s Korean passport at the same time.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

DudeInProgress said:


> For God’s sake, get out of your own persistent narrative.
> He’s not trying to force her to stay, he’s trying to make sure she doesn’t take his kid and leave the country.
> If he’s concerned she might split the country with his kid, he’d be remiss if he didn’t secure the kid’s passports.
> That being said, yes, he should leave her passport alone (assuming the kid’s is secure).


Until he files for divorce he has no legal right to prevent his mother from taking him anywhere. She's his mother. He can't dictate that his son's mother can't take him to visit her family while he decides what to do.

Likewise he's the boys father and cam take him where he likes. Maybe she'll tell him where he can take his son while she decides what she wants.

Not how it works.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

DudeInProgress said:


> Exactly. And she can have it whenever she wants it, as long as she’s not also in possession of his son’s Korean passport at the same time.


Perhaps he should confiscate her car too...she might leave with their son and go to a friend's and refuse to come back.

He has no legal right to dictate where his mother can take him until the courts say so.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

lifeistooshort said:


> Perhaps he should confiscate her car too...she might leave with their son and go to a friend's and refuse to come back.
> 
> He has no legal right to dictate where his mother can take him until the courts say so.


if he legitimately believes she presents a flight risk with his child, he is completely justified in removing her capability of taking him out of the country.

The car example is a BS argument and you know it. If she flees to her friends house (in the same country) and refuses to come back that’s fine.
He can have the courts mandate and enforce custody and visitation rights for his son. 
if she fleas the country, he has no such recourse.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

cabbagesfordays said:


> Throwing her out of my office? Bullying? Stopping her from getting away? What you're describing is a complete misinterpretation of everything I described in my op, or further responses. I even updated the op to reflect the passport discussion. Perhaps, If you spent less time arguing with others on this thread, you would've read that. Or, you know, you could have asked me, instead. Anyway, I have problems of my own to look into and I'm not going argue.
> 
> I came here for advice. Thankfully I got some really good advice and for that I am grateful. That is all.


With any public forum you’re going to run into some people that are completely entrenched in their own predetermined narratives, regardless of how detached from reality (or at least what’s being presented as reality on an Internet forum) that it may be. 
I wouldn’t take it personally.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> Perhaps he should confiscate her car too...she might leave with their son and go to a friend's and refuse to come back.
> 
> *He has no legal right to dictate where his mother can take him until the courts say so.*


Anyone advising him to confiscate her passport is giving very poor advice. 

If the wife wanted to claim she was abused, which based on her violent response to him she may, that he is withholding her passport will support that claim. If he honestly believes she is a flight risk, he needs to involve the authorities NOW and let THEM tell her she can't leave. He has NO legal standing to prevent his wife from going anywhere. I don't recall the OP saying he felt she was a flight risk, but if he does, he needs to respect the law, not play silly red-pill games that will end with him losing out in the divorce and possibly losing all chances at custody. He needs to be the one with the level head, and being so overdramatic as to confiscate her passport because he_ thinks_ she _might _leave the country and not coming back is hardly a levelheaded response.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Anyone advising him to confiscate her passport is giving very poor advice.
> 
> If the wife wanted to claim she was abused, which based on her violent response to him she may, that he is withholding her passport will support that claim. If he honestly believes she is a flight risk, he needs to involve the authorities NOW and let THEM tell her she can't leave. He has NO legal standing to prevent his wife from going anywhere. I don't recall the OP saying he felt she was a flight risk, but if he does, he needs to respect the law, not play silly red-pill games that will end with him losing out in the divorce and possibly losing all chances at custody. He needs to be the one with the level head, and being so overdramatic as to confiscate her passport because he_ thinks_ she _might _leave the country and not coming back is hardly a levelheaded response.


1. As far as I can tell, no one is telling him to take her passport and keep it from her.
No one cares about keeping HER in the country.

It is perfectly reasonable for him to secure the KID’s passport.
Her passport vs. his son’s passport are two very different things.
And it is perfectly levelheaded for him to secure his sons passport if he thinks she may plausibly take him out of the country if the situation deteriorates.
Obviously he has some concern about her fleeing with his son or he wouldn’t of brought it up.

2. how the hell do you go from this situation to screeching about red pill? That seems to be your go to bogeyman for all things that you don’t like but can’t articulate.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I would think (although I obviously don’t know this for certain) that she could report her Korean passport or her child’s Korean passport lost and get a new one if she decided to. I had to replace my U.S. passport once and that’s what I did although I realize that dealing with Korean passports may be completely different.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Openminded said:


> I would think (although I obviously don’t know this for certain) that she could report her Korean passport or her child’s Korean passport lost and get a new one if she decided to. I had to replace my U.S. passport once and that’s what I did although I realize that dealing with Korean passports may be completely different.


I've lived in Korea, and obviously US. Both countries require both parents to be present to get a passport.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

This passport stuff is crazy. Op had an argument with his wife who is from another country. She doesn’t have sex with him, doesn’t like him, won’t talk to him and finds anything he says to be if no interest. She complains constantly about how he dies household chores, he has the burden of being the sole provider. 

OP hasn’t said what he wants about divorce. But he should see an attorney before his wife sees one and they counsel her to set him up for domestic abuse, etc etc. Oh, I know, an attorney would never do that.

OP: what are your plans? Do you want to try to fix your marriage or get out of it? It sounds awful to me.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Here


Openminded said:


> I would think (although I obviously don’t know this for certain) that she could report her Korean passport or her child’s Korean passport lost and get a new one if she decided to. I had to replace my U.S. passport once and that’s what I did although I realize that dealing with Korean passports may be completely different.


And she very well might need to report it stolen to the police in order to do that. I'm not sure about the child's passport but I've already looked into if he takes hers.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> Until he files for divorce he has no legal right to prevent his mother from taking him anywhere. She's his mother. He can't dictate that his son's mother can't take him to visit her family while he decides what to do.
> 
> Likewise he's the boys father and cam take him where he likes. Maybe she'll tell him where he can take his son while she decides what she wants.
> 
> Not how it works.


He can hold onto the child's passport. Also, in the US you can contact the State Department and tell them you do not consent to having your child leave the country. I had a friend from Pakistan that did this while having marital issues. Since a child with two parents that have custody must have the permission of both to issue the child a passport one can also revoke that passport.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Here
> 
> And she very well might need to report it stolen to the police in order to do that. I'm not sure about the child's passport but I've already looked into if he takes hers.


He has no interest in taking her passport, only his child's


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> He has no interest in taking her passport, only his child's


He can do that, I would also encourage him to report his concerns. For his own legal safety. The family courts are not fair to men, sorry, they’re just not. I want us to fix that but in the meantime, he needs to be careful.


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## Lotsofheart73 (Oct 13, 2021)

OP, I’ve just skipped over all the pass port posts and a lot of speculation.
I wanted to ask if perhaps your employer has any “employee assistance” programs ? Many do and employees just kind of forget about them. Sometimes free hotlines are included counseling sessions when there is an urgent need. That maybe helpful to you until you can find one that is suitable for you time wise & price wise.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

cabbagesfordays said:


> I don't have my son's Korean passport, but I *have his British one and my wife's Korean passport, as well. We both know where they are. I will be putting them somewhere secure*. If she comes asking for them, then I will know that she may have such intentions. If not, well, then not.





BigDaddyNY said:


> He has no interest in taking her passport, only his child's


Not according to what he wrote.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Not according to what he wrote.


And he gave it to her as soon as she asked for it. He did this to have the chance to ask her for his son's Korean passport.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

BigDaddyNY said:


> He can hold onto the child's passport. Also, in the US you can contact the State Department and tell them you do not consent to having your child leave the country. I had a friend from Pakistan that did this while having marital issues. Since a child with two parents that have custody must have the permission of both to issue the child a passport one can also revoke that passport.


Then perhaps a neutral 3rd party should hold it.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

lifeistooshort said:


> Then perhaps a neutral 3rd party should hold it.


Why? There doesn’t seem to be any concern about him leaving his country with their child. 

But if she actually does also has such a concern, then sure.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

If it’s to the point of all this passport business fears, best to file.


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## Bluesclues (Mar 30, 2016)

Wow. This post went to crazy town.

@cabbagesfordays I am sorry you are dealing with this. I am glad you are taking her assault on you seriously because it is serious.

Counseling may help but you both have to be open to change. You can only change you though and you don’t need to wait for counseling to be available to start to examine your own issues. You had said you were admittedly not doing your fair share before you started treatment for your previously undiagnosed ADHD and it caused lots if problems in your relationship. But now that you are medicated you have stepped up and do more and feel your efforts aren’t appreciated. Treated like “a machine” I think you said. Well, meeting the basic minimum standard behavior isn’t normally a reason for praise. I get why you would want it though. It isn’t easy for you, you have to put in effort to accomplish what to many are just simple tasks they don’t think about. In a perfect world your wife would have understanding and compassion about your condition and sing your praises for your new efforts. But I am guessing when she had to do it all because you didn’t (couldn’t) that she didn’t get much appreciation or praise from you and that resentment runs deep. You really can’t change that, only she can. But you can control your own growing resentments by being content with self-validation and having compassion for the state your wife is in while she catches up - or doesn’t - to the new you.

Before this incident you picked a fight with your wife about her “showing interest in finances” and I am curious what that means. You said you don’t want her to stop watching your son and go back to work, you don’t want her to take over paying the bills, and she isn’t spending a ton and blowing your budget. Is “show interest” a Britt way to say show concern? You mentioned multiple times the looming electric increase and you being the sole provider so my context clues tell me you have anxiety about money and wanted your wife to - what? What is it you wanted her to say/feel/do to help you with that anxiety? Whatever it was that you wanted/needed you did not communicate well (to her or to us - not that we matter).


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

DudeInProgress said:


> 1. As far as I can tell, no one is telling him to take her passport and keep it from her.
> No one cares about keeping HER in the country.
> 
> It is perfectly reasonable for him to secure the KID’s passport.
> ...


Nail on the head!!!!


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> Until he files for divorce he has no legal right to prevent his mother from taking him anywhere. She's his mother. He can't dictate that his son's mother can't take him to visit her family while he decides what to do.
> 
> Likewise he's the boys father and cam take him where he likes. Maybe she'll tell him where he can take his son while she decides what she wants.
> 
> Not how it works.


Where I'm from, if one parent turns up at the airport with a minor, they will ask the parent where he/she is going and if the other parent has given you permission to take their child abroad, unless you have an arrangement to do so and you have proof of this arrangement. You can't just take off (pun intended) with a minor.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> Where I'm from, if one parent turns up at the airport with a minor, they will ask the parent where he/she is going and if the other parent has given you permission to take their child abroad, unless you have an arrangement to do so and you have proof of this arrangement. You can't just take off (pun intended) with a minor.


That's not been my experience. When I travel to the UK they do ask for a birth certificate as my son has a different nationality and last name from me. I have always traveled with a signed letter of permission from my sons dad when taking him abroad to visit family. I have only ever been asked for it once in 9 years of international travel with him. Returning to the US they occasionally ask my son who i am to him or why we have different last names but don't ask for documents beyond our passports and my greencard.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

joannacroc said:


> That's not been my experience. When I travel to the UK they do ask for a birth certificate as my son has a different nationality and last name from me. I have always traveled with a signed letter of permission from my sons dad when taking him abroad to visit family. I have only ever been asked for it once in 9 years of international travel with him. Returning to the US they occasionally ask my son who i am to him or why we have different last names but don't ask for documents beyond our passports and my greencard.


Then the authorities are not applying the law to the letter, by checking the signed letter and the birth certificate. I got stopped and asked for the documents when leaving Italy, for example. But this a TJ, so I'll stop here!  

*Get permission from someone with parental responsibility*
A letter from the person with parental responsibility for the child is usually enough to show you’ve got permission to take them abroad.

You might be asked for the letter at a UK or foreign border, or if there’s a dispute about taking a child abroad. The letter should include the other person’s contact details and details about the trip.

It also helps if you’ve:


evidence of your relationship with the child, eg a birth or adoption certificate
a divorce or marriage certificate, if you are a single parent but your family name is different from the child’s






Get permission to take a child abroad


Permission from parents and courts to take a child on holiday abroad and avoid abduction




www.gov.uk


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> Perhaps he should confiscate her car too...she might leave with their son and go to a friend's and refuse to come back.
> 
> He has no legal right to dictate where his mother can take him until the courts say so.


Which is exactly why he need to obtain some legal advice. If I were in this situation, my greatest fear would be a replay of "Not Without My Daughter", and my husband taking our child to his homeland and not coming back.


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## cabbagesfordays (5 mo ago)

Bluesclues said:


> Wow. This post went to crazy town.
> 
> @cabbagesfordays I am sorry you are dealing with this. I am glad you are taking her assault on you seriously because it is serious.
> 
> ...


Hi and thanks for your advice. I would say "show interest" in the way of show concern, but not necessarily having to be involved in managing anything. It's more along the lines of, a spouse should at least make an effort to know:

How much money we have in the bank.
If our spending/bills has increased enough to have any concern.
Be willing to make changes in our spending, if needed.
This is where I feel my wife has shown very little, to no interest and every mention of above matters upsets her.
She can perhaps be justified to be upset for the second point, since a big chunk of the electricity costs are generated by myself, as I work in IT from home. I can also be quite forgetful in turning lights off, which generates additional costs, so suggesting any budget changes may seem hypocritical to her. However, having 0 discussion because of these reasons, can't be a good thing.

I don't have anxiety over money and don't expect her to manage anything. It's the general lack of interest on things that I contribute in and lack of appreciation.


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## cabbagesfordays (5 mo ago)

Evinrude58 said:


> This passport stuff is crazy. Op had an argument with his wife who is from another country. She doesn’t have sex with him, doesn’t like him, won’t talk to him and finds anything he says to be if no interest. She complains constantly about how he dies household chores, he has the burden of being the sole provider.
> 
> OP hasn’t said what he wants about divorce. But he should see an attorney before his wife sees one and they counsel her to set him up for domestic abuse, etc etc. Oh, I know, an attorney would never do that.
> 
> OP: what are your plans? Do you want to try to fix your marriage or get out of it? It sounds awful to me.


There are now a few pages of people arguing about passports, which as I explained is a non issue right now. So I've given up on that part of the discussion.

We had a discussion after the fight and she explained that if needed, we can separate over time and that she's not considering for a divorce personally. I believe this, because getting a divorce means she will have to leave the country and she really doesn't want our son to leave the UK, or be away from his daddy, as she respects me as a father. So, that part, although on my mind is not the immediate priority.

We found someone for Marriage counselling and will try attend ASAP. It's going to be pricy, but the alternatives are way pricier and way more final. I honestly don't know what I want to do right now, because I'm still shocked with what happened and how our Marriage has come to this point. I'm willing to go all in with counselling. if she does too, then we maybe able to save this Marriage. If not, then separation is quite probable and a divorce likely looming in the near future.


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## cabbagesfordays (5 mo ago)

Lotsofheart73 said:


> OP, I’ve just skipped over all the pass port posts and a lot of speculation.
> I wanted to ask if perhaps your employer has any “employee assistance” programs ? Many do and employees just kind of forget about them. Sometimes free hotlines are included counseling sessions when there is an urgent need. That maybe helpful to you until you can find one that is suitable for you time wise & price wise.


My employer does have such a program, but last time I called to get some ADHD related counselling I got some very generic questions and responses and decided it's not for me. We found some professional counselling that will be a bit costly, but I don't see a way around it. All the experienced professionals cost more. It's not going to put us under, but with nursery starting next week (private for the next 5 months) and the new energy costs, we likely will need to make adjustments or our lifestyle.


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## Trident (May 23, 2018)

This whole situation is nuts.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

cabbagesfordays said:


> There are now a few pages of people arguing about passports, which as I explained is a non issue right now. So I've given up on that part of the discussion.
> 
> We had a discussion after the fight and she explained that if needed, we can separate over time and that she's not considering for a divorce personally. I believe this, because getting a divorce means she will have to leave the country and she really doesn't want our son to leave the UK, or be away from his daddy, as she respects me as a father. So, that part, although on my mind is not the immediate priority.
> 
> We found someone for Marriage counselling and will try attend ASAP. It's going to be pricy, but the alternatives are way pricier and way more final. I honestly don't know what I want to do right now, because I'm still shocked with what happened and how our Marriage has come to this point. I'm willing to go all in with counselling. if she does too, then we maybe able to save this Marriage. If not, then separation is quite probable and a divorce likely looming in the near future.


That sounds totally reasonable to me


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## Lotsofheart73 (Oct 13, 2021)

Sorry to hear your prior experience wasn’t very helpful & on the generic side. 
Does your spouse realize how much this counseling in going to cost? Not implying that it’s not worth it but sometimes when you’re “writing that check” so to speak it makes people stop and think, this is crazy, why can’t we just be nice to each other, get along, and move on down the road of life. Hopefully she’ll make an honest effort in counseling, Good luck.


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## cabbagesfordays (5 mo ago)

Lotsofheart73 said:


> Sorry to hear your prior experience wasn’t very helpful & on the generic side.
> Does your spouse realize how much this counseling in going to cost? Not implying that it’s not worth it but sometimes when you’re “writing that check” so to speak it makes people stop and think, this is crazy, why can’t we just be nice to each other, get along, and move on down the road of life. Hopefully she’ll make an honest effort in counseling, Good luck.


I think we're both guilty in that when things are better we decide to save a buck and delay counseling until this point.

I hope we can both make a honest effort, because the last thing I want us to use it for, is as means for self justification.

We have a long way ahead, but this much is worth investing in 

Thank you


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

csj77 said:


> You have zero right to be holding on to your wife’s passport.


She gave it to him.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

DownByTheRiver said:


> He's already admitted he shoved her and it made her hit her elbow on something. Where are you getting gentle from that? And that's what he's admitting to.


No he didn’t say he shoved her. You and a couple others are saying this.


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## Night Owl1 (Nov 6, 2020)

cabbagesfordays said:


> I am 40, my wife is 42 and we have a 2.5yo boy together. Some history, for context: The last 2 years together have been a bit of a nightmare, marriage-wise. We have lived abroad for almost a decade without family support and both are from different cultures. Around the time our son arrived, Covid was about to hit in full force. Additional to that, I was struggling with employment issues and ADHD, which I only got diagnosed with, around 6 months after my son was born. I know as a fact that she suffered a lof from my ADHD and even though things on that matter have improved tremendously, nothing ever seems to help. All these things play a huge part on why our marriage is struggling right now. Fast forward to yesterday: Generally the day started well although I was a bit grumpy having to drive through traffic on the way home, since she wanted to visit the grocery store, to pick something. No arguments whatsoever. We arrived home and I mentioned that I've been reading about the new electricity bill hikes in the UK (although my salary is good enough to not really have to worry about significantly). What has been bothering me, however is that my wife has never been involved in our finances. I am a single earner, take care of all the logistics around the house, including bills, rent, fixing things, driving, etc. She has been mostly taking care of our boy during the day and doing a large part of the cleaning. I have also been helping a lot in the house as well, which leaves a bitter taste in my mouth when each day goes by, feeling totally unappreciated. Anyhow, we ended up having a disagreement around her lack of involvement, especially since the new electric prices are quite hefty. She got extremely upset and left the living room. I left soon after and went to my office, which is where I work from at home. And then the fire alarm starts ringing, waking up our son. Why the fire alarm, you would ask? Because when she left the kitchen she left the food on and didn't check it, until it almost got burned. I rushed to open the windows and help out and didn't even blamed her for what happened. She helped our son get back to sleep and that was it. And then what happened is that she rushed into my office blaming me, that it was my fault the food was burned and because I left the kitchen after her, it was my responsibility. At that point I knew that If whatever is happening doesn't stop, I would likely lose my temper and shout, but endless fighting taught me that shouting = violence and all the words that trigger the shouting are not. So, I have been choosing to disengage from arguments lately, simply because they are literally unwinnable. I stood up and asked her to leave my office immediately. I touched her arm, giving a very gentle push in indication that she needs to go (No grabbing or pushing hard), but her arm touched the door handle (She said she hit her elbow, but I find that hard to believe). She Immediately gave me a solid kick in the nuts, as If I intended to injure her. Not even a chance to step back and say anything. Our son woke up again and likely saw me in pain. Thankfully, I didn't get injured. I've been in absolute shock since yesterday and I'm having a hard time being in the same room as she is. A kick in the balls is one of the most humiliating things for a man, especially when he doesn't deserve it. I've asked her to keep some distance for a while, until I get some advice and potentially legal advice too. She has not apologised and it's quite probable she thinks the kick was justified. We've had some really bad fights in the past, but I've never hit her. I have been slapped by her before, although it was quite a heated fight and I brought her to her limits. I've been thinking of divorce/separation for a while now, but I can't stand looking in my son's eyes, imagining the pain he will have to endure. A divorce would also likely mean she has to leave the country, due to being a dependent visa. This brings risk of losing my son, which I will seriously fight to the death to prevent. I'm sure a person doesn't just snap and become violent from one day to another. I'm quite likely responsible for a lot of her pain over the last 2 years. But nothing is ever enough. For months now, I feel I am being treated as a machine. It's always about giving her time to recover. No sex for months on end. I'm often feeling that my lips are sewn together and I can't talk, because nothing I say interests her. When when we fight I get gaslighted to the moon and back. She's always busy, always running out of time, even when she doesn't have to. Just confused on how to move forward...Perhaps a comment will help me see things straight. p.s. 1: It's hard to mention every little detail that's happened in years and I'm trying my best not to downplay how much I've been responsible in her suffering. But I just can't seem to brush off that kick in the balls. Not unless I really deserved it, or indeed it looked like I pushed her against the door handle and the kick is a reaction. I honestly would feel much better if it was a reaction, which I caused. p.s. 2: We 've discussed in the past that she may be suffering by what's called 'Cassandra Syndrome', but she's not had any Counselling for that yet. I've discussed family counselling for both of us and I have not found someone suitable who is not fully booked, or charges extraneous amounts per session. p.s. 3: One of the very few things we share in common currently, is our respect for each other being an amazing parent. *EDIT: This morning my wife asked for her passport to take care of some things online having to do with my son's insurance in Korea. Knowing that she had my son's Korean passport I suggested she gives me his after she's done. She seemed quite upset, as she understood what I was thinking. She said me that it's not at all what she intends to do and gave me all the passports right after. She apologized for the kick, that It was not her intention to kick me in the balls and that it was a reaction to myself touching her, while things were heated. She says that we should consider separating, because this situation is way to destructive for us and our son. We are going to have a conversation today and discuss how to move forward, including Marriage counselling and trying to establish some rules/boundaries, so that we are not constantly in conflict in the meantime. I'm not sure how it's going to work out in the end, we must take some actions immediately.*


 I think counseling is a good idea for the sake of your child. Clearly, both of you need to learn how to communicate more effectively. I suspect there’s no recovery here. The underlying issues & resentment are escalating. I think you should physically separate to prevent any future aggression and/or domestic conflicts that could fuel a lot of legal heartache for you & her. best of luck to you. It’s sounds like you are no longer in love with your wife.


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## Night Owl1 (Nov 6, 2020)

cabbagesfordays said:


> I am 40, my wife is 42 and we have a 2.5yo boy together. Some history, for context:
> The last 2 years together have been a bit of a nightmare, marriage-wise. We have lived abroad for almost a decade without family support and both are from different cultures. Around the time our son arrived, Covid was about to hit in full force. Additional to that, I was struggling with employment issues and ADHD, which I only got diagnosed with, around 6 months after my son was born. I know as a fact that she suffered a lof from my ADHD and even though things on that matter have improved tremendously, nothing ever seems to help. All these things play a huge part on why our marriage is struggling right now.
> 
> Fast forward to yesterday:
> ...


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ABHale said:


> No he didn’t say he shoved her. You and a couple others are saying this.


🙄


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

"It does not take a whole lot to get an assault charge. The law defines assault and battery as an unwanted touching that is done in a rude or angry manner. It can be as simple as shoving someone, blocking their way, spitting on them, grabbing someone’s arm, throwing something (liquid or otherwise) at them, or even grabbing something out of their hand. Assault and Battery does not always mean someone was hit or punched. Remember, it does not take much."
Reference: 


https://cookcraig.com/domestic-assault-and-battery-it-does-not-take-much/












Is it a Crime to Grab Someone's Arm? - Pyzer Criminal Lawyers


It is a criminal offence in Canada to grab someone's arm. You can be criminally charged with assault, prosecuted and convicted if the Crown is able to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. Many people conceive of an assault as a much more violent action than simply grabbing someone's…




www.torontodefencelawyers.com


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I’d say kicking a person in the balls qualifies as assault, wouldn’t you Riv? 
what a huge thread jack


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Double post


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Evinrude58 said:


> I’d say kicking a person in the balls qualifies as assault, wouldn’t you Riv?
> what a huge thread jack


Self defense. He started it.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Great seeing how it is always twisted into the guy always being at fault DBTR.

You touched my arm, you’re going to jail!!


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## David60525 (Oct 5, 2021)

cabbagesfordays said:


> I am 40, my wife is 42 and we have a 2.5yo boy together. Some history, for context:
> The last 2 years together have been a bit of a nightmare, marriage-wise. We have lived abroad for almost a decade without family support and both are from different cultures. Around the time our son arrived, Covid was about to hit in full force. Additional to that, I was struggling with employment issues and ADHD, which I only got diagnosed with, around 6 months after my son was born. I know as a fact that she suffered a lof from my ADHD and even though things on that matter have improved tremendously, nothing ever seems to help. All these things play a huge part on why our marriage is struggling right now.
> 
> Fast forward to yesterday:
> ...


Go to court. Get her kicked out for 30 days with a restraining order. You just have to look at her funny, she can do it to you, and get your firearms confiscated up to a year. I'd divorce her. The fudging is about to start for you.
Take the red pill, man!!


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## David60525 (Oct 5, 2021)

cabbagesfordays said:


> I am 40, my wife is 42 and we have a 2.5yo boy together. Some history, for context:
> The last 2 years together have been a bit of a nightmare, marriage-wise. We have lived abroad for almost a decade without family support and both are from different cultures. Around the time our son arrived, Covid was about to hit in full force. Additional to that, I was struggling with employment issues and ADHD, which I only got diagnosed with, around 6 months after my son was born. I know as a fact that she suffered a lof from my ADHD and even though things on that matter have improved tremendously, nothing ever seems to help. All these things play a huge part on why our marriage is struggling right now.
> 
> Fast forward to yesterday:
> ...


Get out you can recover.


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## Night Owl1 (Nov 6, 2020)

cabbagesfordays said:


> I am 40, my wife is 42 and we have a 2.5yo boy together. Some history, for context:
> The last 2 years together have been a bit of a nightmare, marriage-wise. We have lived abroad for almost a decade without family support and both are from different cultures. Around the time our son arrived, Covid was about to hit in full force. Additional to that, I was struggling with employment issues and ADHD, which I only got diagnosed with, around 6 months after my son was born. I know as a fact that she suffered a lof from my ADHD and even though things on that matter have improved tremendously, nothing ever seems to help. All these things play a huge part on why our marriage is struggling right now.
> 
> Fast forward to yesterday:
> ...


Sounds like she’s accepted responsibility for kicking you. However, you failed to mention whether or not you apologized for touching her in the heat of the situation (which apparently provoked her action against you).


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Night Owl1 said:


> Sounds like she’s accepted responsibility for kicking you. However, you failed to mention whether or not you apologized for touching her in the heat of the situation (which apparently provoked her action against you).


He was trying to de-escalate her angry tirade. 

Be like a police officer moving someone in a fight back so you are ok to punch the officer according to some women here because he put a hand on you.


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## Night Owl1 (Nov 6, 2020)

Divinely Favored said:


> He was trying to de-escalate her angry tirade.
> 
> Be like a police officer moving someone in a fight back so you are ok to punch the officer according to some women here because he put a hand on you.


Not exactly the same scenario here. This was not an equal altercation, as men are typically stronger than women. I think she had good aim & neutralized him from further assaulting her. Regardless of the details ( details are vulgar), they both need to apologize to one another in order to stand a chance for civil and appropriate communication in the future.
For the record, striking someone, for any reason, is never ok. Doesn’t matter who you are. Most normal escalation can be diffused, if a person keeps his/her wits. Police,unfortunately, are held to that standard, but they’re not infallible. We’re all entitled to protect ourselves. 
I feel bad for their child. He’s stuck in the middle.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Night Owl1 said:


> Not exactly the same scenario here. This was not an equal altercation, as men are typically stronger than women. I think she had good aim & neutralized him from further assaulting her.


This is BS. 
He was trying to move her away from himself. He had left the situation and went to another room, she came to where he was at and started betraying him. She was the aggressor. Plain and simple.

As a man who worked in the Criminal Justice field for over 20 yrs, I would have arrested her had I been called.


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