# kissed/made out after e "long" time..?



## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

*Re: UPDATES - new situation - kissed/made out after e "long" time..? -*

1 - Men, while you are dating someone, what do you consider to be a _long_ time before you kiss each other or make out? 

2- What do you think of the girl if she makes out with you on the first date ?

***************
While chatting with a friend of mine last night, she said she kissed her boyfriend after a long time they were dating. When I asked when exactly, she replied after 3 dates. 

Really?? only 3 dates and she considered it a long time??
She's from the States actually. Probably, in the States it's unusual to wait 3 dates to kiss one another, but here in Albania it's pretty soon.
If sex happened on the first date, guys over here wouldn't think highly of the girl.

What about men of TAM?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

lovelygirl said:


> 1 - Men, while you are dating someone, what do you consider to be a _long_ time before you kiss each other or make out?


3 dates

If nothing happens by then I move on but tis just me



> 2- What do you think of the girl if she makes out with you on the first date ?


Depends on the chemistry, if it's very strong and mutual, that's to be expected.

If it's poor, and she makes out/puts out anyway, meh...


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> 3 dates
> 
> If nothing happens by then I move on but tis just me


So, It's all about you? 
If nothing happens you simply move on without caring how she feels?
If you gave her a bit more time, she'd probably give in. 
No wonder why sex is used as a tool to keep men.




> Depends on the chemistry, if it's very strong and mutual, that's to be expected.
> 
> If it's poor, and she makes out/puts out anyway, meh...


I wouldn't say chemistry is bad just because sex doesn't happen on the first date.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

lovelygirl said:


> So, It's all about you?
> If nothing happens you simply move on without caring how she feels?
> If you gave her a bit more time, she'd probably give in.
> No wonder why sex is used as a tool to keep men.


Well, for me personally, with a large pool of women available I invest very little when it comes to dating. By third date if there's no real spark I don't see the point in continuing when there are others available.



> I wouldn't say chemistry is bad just because sex doesn't happen on the first date.


Me either, I only said that if she kissed/made out on our first date, it'd better be because of strong chemistry. I wouldn't enjoy it otherwise.


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## Joey2k (Oct 3, 2014)

lovelygirl said:


> So, It's all about you?
> If nothing happens you simply move on without caring how she feels?
> If you gave her a bit more time, she'd probably give in.
> No wonder why sex is used as a tool to keep men.


Are you suggesting he should continue dating a woman just to avoid hurting her feelings?

Yes, it is all about him, at least at that stage. He's looking for compatibility, in all areas. He didn't ask her out for her benefit, he asked her out to see if she was someone who could make him happier.

To answer your questions:

*1 - Men, while you are dating someone, what do you consider to be a long time before you kiss each other or make out? *

I'd agree with RandomDude, if nothing happened after 3 dates I would most likely conclude that the chemistry wasn't there and not pursue the relationship further. Especially if I felt she was holding out for some arbitrary number of dates that would be considered "acceptable"

I joke about having a 5-date rule (as opposed to the standard 3-date rule), with each successive date moving up at least one "base" (although nothing is expected on the first date, that's a get-to-know-you freebie). So I'm going for sex by the fifth date. By that point you should know whether or not they are someone you want to be in a relationship with. If they are, no reason to put off sex; if they aren't, you probably shouldn't continue seeing them.


*2- What do you think of the girl if she makes out with you on the first date ? *

I would think she was really into me. It has no bearing on whether I would continue to pursue a relationship with her (or not as much as you would expect). 

If I enjoy a woman's company her making out on the first date would not make me think less of her or less likely to continue seeing her. 

Likewise, if I didn't care for her company/personality, her making out on the first date would not make me more likely to continue the relationship.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Since almost every woman I've dated as an adult initiated sex herself by the third date (ranging from first - rare - to fifth), I'd say third date is beginning to be a long time. If she wants to make out on the first date, I'd think she's very normal.

I don't mind taking some time to establish strong mutual interest and compatibility, but if we have very different attitudes about sex and acting on attraction, we probably aren't very compatible anyway.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I don't think there is a set timeline for this.

Everyone has their own pace that is right for them.

I would have loved a more traditional dating scene.

Every woman I have ever been with had her clothes off within a day of meeting me. My wife included.

Many of them were nice including my wife, obviously. I couldn't think bad about them since that was my experience with dating.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I'm pretty aggrssive. I don't wait for the buildup. If we are out, and I think she likes me, I wait for the right moment, pull her aside somewhere private, and lay one on her. 

It almost always works and she wants more. I think women don't care as long as the man takes the lead. You will know if she's into you like within the first five minutes of meeting her.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

I started typing, then realized I was repeating myself from another thread. So just go there.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-c...g-no-commitment-without-sex.html#post12438434

This is an opinion thing, so neither is wrong. If you're an 'establish-trust-before-sex' person, that's fine. If you're a 'try-out-sex-before-bothering-with-friendship' person that's fine too. Just don't try to convince someone else their way is wrong just because it isn't the same as yours. Society and culture do try to make judgements about one way being wrong, especially the second sort for women.

I've always been the first type - but now that I'm single again, I'm holding out for someone who makes me want to be the second type.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> I started typing, then realized I was repeating myself from another thread. So just go there.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-c...g-no-commitment-without-sex.html#post12438434
> 
> ...


PM me your phone number.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

Joey2k said:


> Are you suggesting he should continue dating a woman just to avoid hurting her feelings?


No. 


> Yes, it is all about him, at least at that stage. He's looking for compatibility, in all areas. He didn't ask her out for her benefit, he asked her out to see if she was someone who could make him happier.


Sure, everyone looks for their own benefit but how do you know if you're compatible in sex unless you two try it? 
Just because you didn't have it on the 3rd date, doesn't make you less compatible. She could be the girl of your dreams in bed if only you wait a bit more ... 
What you find out later might surprise you.



> I'd agree with RandomDude, if nothing happened after 3 dates I would most likely conclude that the chemistry wasn't there and not pursue the relationship further. Especially if I felt she was holding out for some arbitrary number of dates that would be considered "acceptable"


I agree up to a point. The chemistry should already be there in the first date. If there is no chemistry, I don't go on a date with the guy at all. (Unless we're talking about blind dates - but I'm not referring to that).
But the thing is that, if he pushes me too hard for sex, too soon, it turns me off.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> *I would have loved a more traditional dating scene.*


Yep. That's me. I would like to keep the spark going a bit more. :wink2:


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> I'm pretty aggrssive. I don't wait for the buildup. If we are out, and I think she likes me, I wait for the right moment, pull her aside somewhere private, and lay one on her.


lol... Dangerous boy!
That would turn me on, just not on the first date. :grin2:


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

If she lets me go down on her in the back seat of the taxi, she's a keeper.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

RandomDude said:


> 3 dates
> 
> If nothing happens by then I move on but tis just me
> 
> ...


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening all
I have been out of the dating scene since dinosaurs walked the earth so I'm probably pretty old fashioned.

To me there are different types of dates - they can be romantic, or fun / adventurous. Where a relationship goes really depends on the people. I think it is possibly to have non-sexual fun together first, then have a sexual relationship develop, or for it to be sexual first, and for non-sexual fun to come later.

So I don't see any particular timeline, but if attempted romantic dates fall flat, that is probably a bad sign.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

Shoto1984 said:


> Making out does not equal sex for me. Increasing levels of kissing and petting are great but I much prefer to wait on the sex. I enjoy it more when I have a real connection/appreciation of her. Prior to that she's a body (albeit hopefully a nice one...)


It's good that you clarified what you mean by 'make out'. Probably I should have clarified it in the opening post. 
Just like you, I'm not against kissing on the first few dates but I'm against sex. I'd like to wait a bit more. 
As for kissing, I wouldn't oppose to it. Although it would be more appealing not to get too close at least on the first date. As for the rest, kissing is alright. Sex? 
Gotta think/wait a bit. I need to built sexual tension before we get to sex. 

I love flirting/playing/petting and the more he does it, the sooner sex will come. 
But getting right into sex? 

Nah...


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Ex-wife and I didn't have sex until one year later, though mostly because I had another gf during our "just friends" period

However our relationship was more of a "friends who became lovers" dynamic compared to the traditional dating dynamics. Expectations are very different. In dating, when people are just strangers there has to be some justification to spend time with them, if no chemistry, no kiss, no sex, ok friend-zone, if too different then bye, and good luck with life!


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

Wife and I made out on our first date - we went to the car and made out with her sitting on my lap and my hands up her dress, then went to her place and got naked (no PIV, but lots of petting, etc). Had actual sex a week later. 

Looking back, wish we would have waited.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

ChargingCharlie said:


> Wife and I made out on our first date - we went to the car and made out with her sitting on my lap and my hands up her dress, then went to her place and got naked (no PIV, but lots of petting, etc). Had actual sex a week later.
> 
> *Looking back, wish we would have waited*.


See?

Why do you say that? 

Just curious.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

lovelygirl said:


> 1 - Men, while you are dating someone, what do you consider to be a _long_ time before you kiss each other or make out?
> 
> 2- What do you think of the girl if she makes out with you on the first date ?


Well, been off the dating scene for a long time so hard to say what I think would be ideal would actually be practical if I was dating.

1 - I think by the 2nd or 3rd date is reasonable. 1st date I would have no issues pulling out the gentlemen card (kiss on cheek, kiss on hand, guess I am a little old fashioned lol). However, I wouldn't see a need for a 2nd or 3rd date if there wasn't something there, including physical attraction, so to me at that point kissing/making out would start to differentiate a date vs going out to eat with a buddy. Things can progress from there depending on where both people have comfort (me personally would err more on the cautious side)

2 - As long as she doesn't have garlic breathe ...


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

lovelygirl said:


> See?
> 
> Why do you say that?
> 
> Just curious.


It was too easy - made me feel that I had to be with her, and made me not look at other things (her insecurity, issues with one sibling who's a total PITA, immaturity, etc). As my dad said, the sex will stop, but the other stuff is still there.


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## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

Yeah, I'd say by the 3rd date your either going home with them, they are taking you home, or your finding a nice quiet spot alone.

If I'm not making out within the first few weeks I move on.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Maybe I had bad luck but most of the women I dated seemed put off by kissing on the first date. 

However, even if it isn't full blown making out there should at least be a strong good night kiss by the third date. 

The hug at the beginning and end of the date was typical. Of course, the man is expected to make the move.

On the flip side, I would be put off by sex on the first date. If it's THAT easy it would make me wonder. 

I think sex within a month if you're dating a girl once-twice a week is reasonable if she's the conservative type.

Longer than that, I'd move along. There's a fine line between a classy girl and a prudish one.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

BetrayedDad said:


> Longer than that, I'd move along. There's a fine line between a classy girl and a prudish one.


I don't think it is fair to say that a female who won't sleep with a guy by the end of a month worth of dating is prudish (or can't be considered classy).


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

EllisRedding said:


> I don't think it is fair to say that a female who won't sleep with a guy by the end of a month worth of dating is prudish (or can't be considered classy).


I think if you're young and/or never married and want to wait it's admirable and more power to you. Post 30's most people are adults, so after 4-8 dates, I'm not sure what's going on other than either a potentially low drive mate, intimacy issues or a lack of genuine interest. 

Either way, sexual compatibility is just as important as intellectual and emotional compatibility. I don't want to find out after I say "I do" again or even 6 months down the road that bad sex or lack of sex drive is an issue. Better to find out sooner than later and just move it along. 

That's just me...


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Typically I would think a guy has zero interest in me if he didn't want to kiss me goodnight but I also don't want a makeout session on the first date. First date kiss should be short and tender - a test of chemistry. Second date maybe a bit more - a hello peck, a stolen kiss mid-date, maybe a few lingering kisses at goodbye. I wouldn't want a full-blown make-out session on the first date.

Then again, my longer relationships took a slower course of action - I can also see chemistry was lacking. In the instances things went faster there was chemistry but not long-term compatibility. So I've lived and learned.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

BetrayedDad said:


> I think if you're young and/or never married and want to wait it's admirable and more power to you. Post 30's most people are adults, so after 4-8 dates, I'm not sure what's going on other than either a potentially low drive mate, intimacy issues or a lack of genuine interest.
> 
> Either way, sexual compatibility is just as important as intellectual and emotional compatibility. I don't want to find out after I say "I do" again or even 6 months down the road that bad sex or lack of sex drive is an issue. Better to find out sooner than later and just move it along.
> 
> That's just me...


In all fairness, I have been out of the dating game for a long time so I don't know what exactly the expectations are these days. I am sure also each person will have a different idea of how long to wait or how long is too long. I guess I just look at it, it will happen when it happens, wouldn't want to mark a date on the calendar as doomsday. I am not saying wait until marriage, I never did (and tbh I could have never been in a relationship where marriage was the requirement for sex), just 1 month at least to me seems short, especially when you weigh in some of the risk factors like pregnancy, stds, etc...


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

1. to me, if there's no kiss, it's not a date. Even a peck.

2. making out should commence on date 2 or 3. If there's no heat by date 3, it's not gonna happen, I assume there's no chemistry and move on.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

EllisRedding said:


> I don't think it is fair to say that a female who won't sleep with a guy by the end of a month worth of dating is prudish (or can't be considered classy).


Totally agreed!

the 1-month time limit has got nothing to do with classy/prudish or whatever.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

marduk said:


> 1. to me, if there's no kiss, it's not a date. Even a peck.
> 
> 2. making out should commence on date 2 or 3. If there's no heat by date 3, it's not gonna happen, I assume there's no chemistry and move on.


:surprise:

I've known couples who said they didn't kiss after the 10th date or so and today they are married.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

EnjoliWoman said:


> Typically I would think a guy has zero interest in me if he didn't want to kiss me goodnight


=/

First kiss is everything to many women, not something that men should be in the habit of rushing, but tis my opinion


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## coffee4me (Feb 6, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> If she lets me go down on her in the back seat of the taxi, she's a keeper.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Eww


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

lovelygirl said:


> :surprise:
> 
> I've known couples who said they didn't kiss after the 10th date or so and today they are married.


I'm not saying they're wrong.

I'm saying they're not me.

I hate wasting my time just to discover there's no chemistry there.

For me, it's like sex. Might as well go there pretty soon to see if it works, or not. And if not, exit before there's too many emotions involved.

After one sexually incompatible marriage, I swore I would never go back there again.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> =/
> 
> First kiss is everything to many women, not something that men should be in the habit of rushing, but tis my opinion


Yes, it definitely either leaves us wanting more or ready to go. IN that case it's the first french kiss. But if a guy doesn't kiss my cheek or hand or give me a gentle peck on the lips and merely hugs goodbye, I assume he had no interest in kissing me.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

coffee4me said:


> Eww


I used to drink a lot...


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## coffee4me (Feb 6, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> I used to drink a lot...


I don't drink at all so your statement and my reaction make perfect sense


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

marduk said:


> I'm not saying they're wrong.
> 
> I'm saying they're not me.
> 
> ...


Isn't the best sex when emotions ARE involved? It's all a bit of a crap shoot... great chemistry can fizzle and/or many men complain the women started off all hot and heavy and now have no interest. I don't think amazing first date sex (or early on) equates to good relationship potential.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

EnjoliWoman said:


> Yes, it definitely either leaves us wanting more or ready to go. IN that case it's the first french kiss. But if a guy doesn't kiss my cheek or hand or give me a gentle peck on the lips and merely hugs goodbye, I assume he had no interest in kissing me.


Rather than kissing on the first date, wouldn't flirting (a lot) be enough to realize that he's interested in you?

At least that's how it works for me. As long as me and him flirt a lot back and forth on our first date ...chances are there's gonna be something more in the dates to come. I like to keep the magic going..
I love touching [and being touched] or a kiss on the cheeks .. the maximum.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

EnjoliWoman said:


> Isn't the best sex when emotions ARE involved? It's all a bit of a crap shoot... great chemistry can fizzle and/or many men complain the women started off all hot and heavy and now have no interest. I don't think amazing first date sex (or early on) equates to good relationship potential.


Of course.

But I've learned the hard way that if the sexual chemistry isn't there at the beginning, it isn't likely to ever be fantastic.

You fall in love with someone over time -- hours, days, weeks, whatever.

But if you're sexually incompatible, well... maybe you just are incompatible.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

marduk said:


> For me, it's like sex. Might as well go there pretty soon to see if it works, or not. And if not, exit before there's too many emotions involved.
> 
> After one sexually incompatible marriage, I swore I would never go back there again.


You make it sound like friends with benefits. 
No emotions involved and you want to try sex out. 

I think dating is more than just testing sex out.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

marduk said:


> Of course.
> 
> But I've learned the hard way that if the sexual chemistry isn't there at the beginning, it isn't likely to ever be fantastic.
> 
> ...


To me, sexual compatibility comes with emotions. 
The more I have them, the more sexually attractive the guys is ...and the more willing to be sexual with him I am.


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## coffee4me (Feb 6, 2013)

Emotions don't make a bad kisser a good kisser. 

You can spend weeks building emotions and then ... The bad sloppy, too wet, too stiff, too yuck . Kiss 

Then you are stuck with an even more awkward situation because you built up the emotions.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

lovelygirl said:


> To me, sexual compatibility comes with emotions.
> The more I have them, the more sexually attractive the guys is ...and the more willing to be sexual with him I am.


Of course. 

However there are low desire people and high desire people. There are people with physical incompatibilities. There are people who's sexuality is part of their everyday existence, and people who's sexuality is reserved for the bedroom. 

There are people who are attracted to each other and love each other, but just fizzle in the bedroom. 

All kinds of things. 

Do what you want. I'm just demonstrating something I learned the hard way -- loving someone despite having the physical side not work is a bad scene. Best to learn this early on before heartbreak. 

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

lovelygirl said:


> You make it sound like friends with benefits.
> No emotions involved and you want to try sex out.
> 
> I think dating is more than just testing sex out.


Of course dating is more. It's having fun, exploring, getting to know people. 

But if you're looking for an LTR, it's also seeking compatibility, isn't it?

How many marriages post here with an hd/ld mix?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

marduk said:


> Of course dating is more. It's having fun, exploring, getting to know people.
> 
> But if you're looking for an LTR, it's also seeking compatibility, isn't it?
> 
> ...


I'm not saying you should to go marriage and find out you're sexually incompatible and I'm not excluding sex from the LTR. I'm only excluding it only from the first few dates until the relationship *becomes exclusive.*
To me, exclusivity is *VERY *important.

Up until several weeks ago I went out on 4 dates with a guy I got had gotten to know recently. 
There was a lot heavy flirting and sexual tension/desire between us (before we started dating as well as during our dates) and I was enjoying spending time with him...
....until he wanted us to sex it up on the 4th date. 

The guy is out of my radar now.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Bugged said:


> marduk, i thought you divorced because your 1st wife cheated ???


Yup. 

She also had all kinds of hang ups about sex. 

And has had relationships since go sour from it. Apparently her mo is to use her classical beauty and the lure of her sexuality into getting relationships, and then turning the taps off. You know, classic bait and switch. 

I was actually thinking of two other women I knew. 

One was one that I was friends with first. There was always an attraction there, but we held off on it. Got to know each other. I don't think we quite fell in love, but the feelings were there. Great mutual admiration, caring, and we "fit." 

Until we had sex. And we were both like "that was it?" We just didn't spark that way.

Another time, the woman I was interested in had body issues. She had lost a lot of weight, would dress great, but would never really let herself go in the sack. Sex was something that she just did sometimes. It wasn't really part of her, you know? We could fight that forever, and I could be unsatisfied and her pressured forever... But why?

For me, personally, I need someone who's sexuality is like mine - fully integrated into their personality. Part of every step, every breath. Something to enjoy and explore together. Not a step on your weekly to-do list.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

lovelygirl said:


> I'm not saying you should to go marriage and find out you're sexually incompatible and I'm not excluding sex from the LTR. I'm only excluding it only from the first few dates until the relationship *becomes exclusive.*
> To me, exclusivity is *VERY *important.
> 
> Up until several weeks ago I went out on 4 dates with a guy I got had gotten to know recently.
> ...


I have no issues with that. I wouldn't sleep with a woman that was sleeping with other dudes, either.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Just out of curiosity (guys or girls), for those who have a set number (i.e. number of dates, etc...) for things to go where you want physically. Let's say you get to that magic number, still aren't there physically, but like the person. Do you try to put the pressure on them, do you maybe lighten up on your deadline, do you just cut ties, etc...?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Bugged said:


> I understand but was the fact that she cheated the reason you divorced or you would have divorced her anyway because she didn't live up to your standards..so to speak...


Sorry, I didn't understand the question.

I think what you're asking is would I have divorced her if she hadn't cheated on me? Well, I didn't divorce her because of the cheating, she walked out one day with no reason given.

I found out later it was the cheating.

But to answer your question, no. I would have tried to make it work. What I have realized since, is that our marriage would have been fundamentally limited for many reasons, and one of those reasons is that I have a far higher and wider sex drive than she does.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Bugged said:


> What a strange woman... I mean one would expect a woman with a low sex drive not to go looking for affairs... :surprise:


You have to go back to her MO.

Sex is something you use to get attention and a guy, not the other way around. A tool.

Plus, she wanted out, so it was a way out. Treating me like crap for a year didn't work. And it gave her a very soft landing.

Until he dumped her, of course.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> * lovelygirl said*: I'm not saying you should to go marriage and find out you're sexually incompatible and I'm not excluding sex from the LTR. I'm only excluding it only from the first few dates until the relationship becomes exclusive.
> To me, exclusivity is VERY important.
> 
> Up until several weeks ago I went out on 4 dates with a guy I got had gotten to know recently.
> ...


 I think it would be incredibly difficult to date these days as the vast majority ARE HAVING SEX in this time frame.. most *EXPECT IT* ... it's not like we can change these people.. *that's their NORM*.. if you fall out of the norm they are looking for.. and don't oblige them.. chances are they will just walk away.. 



lovelygirl said:


> :surprise:
> 
> I've known couples who said they didn't kiss after the 10th date or so and today they are married.


Myself & Husband are one of those couples... but we were 1st loves too.. I don't remember how long it took for our 1st kiss.. it's kinda an innocent story even...a couple months in maybe... I was 15.. we were very open emotionally with each other..this flowed very easily for us...I felt comfortable from the get go... I was a little shy about kissing though... A neighbor boy kissed me before him.. Husband was my 2nd .... he got me on a walking trail.. it was very special.. we were like Best friends before we kissed..

I believe in taking things very slow.. before getting physical...if a guys sexual appetite/ motivation is all about Test driving ....a variety King who likes to spread it around... I detest men like that....which, in this day & age greatly would reduce a woman's prospects...

This doesn't always mean the girl is Low drive either.. I loved getting frisky, touchy /feely .. but I had specific boundaries depending on the emotional.. and that "exclusivity".. building trust.. romance.. all of it. 

If he came on to me like a freight train.. & got angry about me not going all the way...I would have felt incredibly disrespected ...shown that my feelings , what's important to me meant nothing to him...

It's not that I wasn't horny.. I WAS!!!..VERY!... but being emotionally connected ..for some of us.. it's just THAT important.. .

I don't think women should settle if you are wired this way...KNOW THYSELF Lovelygirl.. I've read your posts before, I know you are not as strict as I was. I didn't want a guy whose been around. this doesn't bother you.. You might even prefer it !

I would have had colossal regrets if I slept with someone who just threw me away and moved on to another... For us.. it all flowed into place very beautifully.. unfolding in time.. as it should....


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I think it would be incredibly difficult to date these days as the vast majority ARE HAVING SEX in this time frame.. most *EXPECT IT* ... it's not like we can change these people.. *that's their NORM*.. if you fall out of the norm they are looking for.. and don't oblige them.. chances are they will just walk away..


I would have been one of those to walk away.

But for the reasons given, not necessarily that I was just looking to get laid.

Best to discuss such matters forthrightly with any suitors.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I think it would be incredibly difficult to date these days as the vast majority ARE HAVING SEX in this time frame.. most *EXPECT IT* ... it's not like we can change these people.. *that's their NORM*.. if you fall out of the norm they are looking for.. and don't oblige them.. chances are they will just walk away..


I understand and to be honest with you, this "norm" is one of the reasons why many of my dates have ended so far. 
But does it mean I have to do something against my desire just to please the guy and use sex as a tool to keep him?

I don't want to do that and I haven't so far.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

LG, I think if you explained your feelings, more men would be patient and understanding. 

I'm like most of the other men posting here and if something wasn't happening pretty quickly, I'd assume the woman wasn't into me. Unless I know this is just who she is and likes to take things slow. I don't really know how slow I'd be willing to go but it's definitely slower than 3 dates IF I understood the situation. But there is a limit on how long "I'm attracted to you but..." will keep me convinced.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

marduk said:


> I would have been one of those to walk away.
> 
> But for the reasons given, not necessarily that I was just looking to get laid.
> 
> Best to discuss such matters forthrightly with any suitors.


Yes I know.. sexual chemistry.. if you & she were Loving it /thriving in the sack.. I agree ..it IS very important.. Before I landed on TAM.. I had no idea that orgasms were elusive for many women.. or that the majority only get there orally.. this was surprising to me.. 

What if the guy is turned off by oral (rare as it may be) & this is what she needs ?? ...What if the Man is the type that THRIVES on giving her an orgasm & she CAN'T.. My husband IS one of those.. this has never been an issue for us. .. I want my orgasm & they come easily -he know this long before he stuck it in... he was never worried about our sex life. 

I was very forthright with him..to what was important to me..*AND WHY*.. no games, no surprises...As far as sexual chemistry...everything in my body wanted to fuse with his at 1st ...It was BAADDDDD...but I was TOO YOUNG.. he was TOO RESPECTABLE..... we still had our FUN... neither of us had to go taking cold showers by any means.....there was plenty to hang on to here. With some high anticipation. 



lovelygirl said:


> I understand and to be honest with you, this "norm" is one of the reasons why many of my dates have ended so far.
> *But does it mean I have to do something against my desire just to please the guy and use sex as a tool to keep him?*
> 
> I don't want to do that and I haven't so far.


What's the longest relationship you've had Lovelygirl ? How many has ended over putting on the brakes? The thing with sex is sticky / tricky.... a gamble even... most of us WANT IT IN THE MOMENT [email protected]#$..... it's not easy to have that sort of self control.. 

And truly...the last thing men want is a Prude in bed...to where sex is always a struggle, she's not interested.... it would destroy their spirit... these things are in their head when looking for a potential (if it's more than just a LAY for them)... even more so if they've had a low driver ex...they are LOOKING for DESIRE / PASSION!....but also someone Faithful & true...if they're in the market for something long term... not just variety in the moment.. 

Trying to weed out the casual from the more serious.. at least hoping to settle down one day... would be helpful.. if at all possible.. 

As you get older ...and love hasn't found you yet.. it seems some have to give up their ideals a bit to jump in the race.. take a few more risks.. you gotta just follow your heart I guess.. :smile2:


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

I Don't Know said:


> LG, I think if you explained your feelings, more men would be patient and understanding.
> 
> I'm like most of the other men posting here and if something wasn't happening pretty quickly, I'd assume the woman wasn't into me. Unless I know this is just who she is and likes to take things slow. I don't really know how slow I'd be willing to go but it's definitely slower than 3 dates IF I understood the situation. But there is a limit on how long "I'm attracted to you but..." will keep me convinced.


I have let men that I've dated know that I need more time. I always make sure to communicate my feelings so that they know where I stand. 
But just like RD said in his first post, men rush towards other girls who are available quickly so they don't have time to figure out about what I say /think and how things could progress over time.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

lovelygirl;12966954
Up until several weeks ago I went out on 4 dates with a guy I got had gotten to know recently.
There was a lot heavy flirting and sexual tension/desire between us (before we started dating as well as during our dates) and I was enjoying spending time with him...
....until he wanted us to sex it up on the 4th date.
[/QUOTE said:


> When I met my current wife, I thought she was very special and somewhat inexperienced. Therefore I was happy to spend time to get to know her first. I really liked her. Later I found out that she was very disappointed and turned-off that I hadn't been more manly and tried to have sex in the beginning. And, no, she was not raised in the US.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

lovelygirl said:


> I understand and to be honest with you, this "norm" is one of the reasons why many of my dates have ended so far.
> But does it mean I have to do something against my desire just to please the guy and use sex as a tool to keep him?
> 
> I don't want to do that and I haven't so far.


Stay strong. If you would have had sex with any of those guys, they still would have left soon. Wait until a guy shows you that they are happy to get to know you, listen to you, and spend time with you. Just because he is patient and thoughtful doesn't mean that he doesn't have a strong sex drive.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> What's the longest relationship you've had Lovelygirl ?


It's kinda complicated.
The longest one was almost a year, but it was _sexless._

Another one where sex was included, lasted 4 months, during which I lost my virginity, last year. One of the reasons I broke up is that whenever we used to meet, we had to always have sex [because that's what he wanted. I wanted it too but I needed more time and take things slower.] Nonetheless, I decided to go his way thinking it would lead us somewhere. But soon I felt like he wanted to meet me just to have sex. Although we dated 4 months, he never introduced me as his girlfriend as he felt it was too soon for that :|. We wouldn't go out as a normal couple. Instead, I wanted us to do normal things, just like every other couple - go to places together, have many date nights ...and so on..., not just sex. Whenever we used to go out, sex would have to be included. To me it felt like FWB, although he used to say it wasn't like that, he never did anything to prove the opposite. I couldn't put up with it anymore so I decided I wanted out.

I also had 3 sexual encounters with another guy(only 1), but that was pure sexual and physical attraction. I was totally aware of that so I didn't expect anything. It was short and fun for as long as it lasted and that was it. 

There was no sex with the guys I've dated afterwards as I wanted to make sure we were emotionally attached to some degree before sex came into play. All of them have given up after the 5th or 6th date. 




> And truly...the last thing men want is a Prude in bed...to where sex is always a struggle, she's not interested.... it would destroy their spirit... these things are in their head when looking for a potential (if it's more than just a LAY for them)... even more so if they've had a low driver ex...they are LOOKING for DESIRE / PASSION!....but also someone Faithful & true...if they're in the market for something long term... not just variety in the moment..


I don't think I'm prude in bed. I've always welcomed new experiments and ideas. (Except for anal which doesn't appeal me). As for the rest, I have no issues, All I need is the guy to want me and be exclusive to me. Is that much to ask for?


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

Steve1000 said:


> Stay strong. If you would have had sex with any of those guys, they still would have left soon. Wait until a guy shows you that they are happy to get to know you, listen to you, and spend time with you. Just because he is patient and thoughtful doesn't mean that he doesn't have a strong sex drive.


Thanks!

And just because I want to wait a bit more, doesn't mean I don't have a strong sex drive either.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

lovelygirl said:


> I don't think I'm prude in bed. I've always welcomed new experiments and ideas. (Except for anal which doesn't appeal me). *As for the rest, I have no issues, All I need is the guy to want me and be exclusive to me. Is that much to ask for?*


NO !! It's not too much to ask.. I feel for you ...I feel for my own daughter in yrs to come ...as casual sex is the norm today ....just seems like people use each other like disposables....it's rarely anything very special...you see it everywhere, touted ... "It's JUST SEX!"... like what the He** is wrong with you!... 

I think this article would capture what you are seeking....or imagine it should be... 








For the BEST SEX EVER Emotional Intimacy is key..here's why!



> Sex often takes place without emotional intimacy, casual hook ups, one night stands, paid for sex, all examples where emotional intimacy is completely void.Emotional intimacy brings a whole new dimension to sex, it takes it to a level where sexual desire and a need to be totally immersed mentally, spiritually, emotionally and physically fuses into one, resulting in additional heights of ecstasy.
> 
> IF you've ever experienced making love with someone you're in-love with, and they you, you will know EXACTLY what I mean. Emotional intimacy produces a psychological trigger that occurs when the feelings between two people, expose vulnerability, experiences of life, friends, family, hopes, dreams, fears and aspirations which blossom into a mutual sharing and exchange of each other's innermost thoughts and feelings.
> 
> It is this unbridled disclosure that makes emotional intimacy the pinnacle in which to achieve, so both partners experience the BEST SEX ever. It is also VITAL if a relationship is to grow, evolve and provide foundations to build upon. Without emotional intimacy, regardless how good sex may be, the relationship will die, sex never sustains two people beyond sex.....


Sounds you've stepped out there though...you've loosened the reigns and had some experiences.. Good for you!.. you know what you've learned from them.. it has surely shown you what you DON'T want, that you need more - (like from the 4-month guy...sorry but he sounded like an A** - all about HIM!).. and that sex can be very fulfilling ...sounds like from the 3 time guy...


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

AnonMale22 said:


> For me, I guess it's about 3 hours.
> 
> Of course I haven't had to worry about that for 30+ years
> 
> ...


This. It's like someone else said.... with some people (I'd guess HD people) their sexuality is just part of them, for others it's more like part of the bedroom activities. 

Also, I may be wrong.... but I think it's different if you are 40 and coming out of a 20 year marriage. At 40, I was more sexually confident and aware of what I wanted and what I was doing than I was at 20. 

Aaaaaaand..... after meeting my H online and talking for a year, our first meeting included a really HOT airport kiss.... and LOTS of sex. Even before meeting, we just KNEW it would be good, chemistry-wise. 10 years later....it still is.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

marduk said:


> For me, personally, I need someone who's sexuality is like mine - fully integrated into their personality. Part of every step, every breath. Something to enjoy and explore together. Not a step on your weekly to-do list.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's hot dude. 

You're going to make me want to bat for the other team ....you keep saying sh!t like that....


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

lovelygirl said:


> 1 - Men, while you are dating someone, what do you consider to be a _long_ time before you kiss each other or make out?
> 
> 2- What do you think of the girl if she makes out with you on the first date ?
> 
> ...


The number of dates is just one thing lovelygirl. This has a lot more to do with feeling like things are going somewhere. If you think postponing is sending the wrong signals to your date then tell him what and why. Maybe he's in it for sex but maybe he's in it for a lot more than that. If things postpone for too long though then a lot of men would assume you don't like sex and then the ball is in your court to explain why you're waiting. Just be honest about it.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

marduk said:


> .......................
> 
> For me, personally, I need someone who's sexuality is like mine - fully integrated into their personality. Part of every step, every breath. Something to enjoy and explore together. Not a step on your weekly to-do list.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So agree with this.

OP to me it is about finding someone compatible, there is no right or wrong way. Reading your posts you come across as saying that sex is a prize that has to be won, that is fine but it also says that sex is not necessarily a priority to you, again that is all good but you can't expect a person that does believe it to be a priority to jump through hoops to win the prize. There are plenty of men that also want to take it slower, they are the ones you will be compatible with. Don't waste your or their time with the ones you are not going to be compatible.

I know you asked the men but from my perspective sex should be shared within a very short time frame. Not only that but open, honest and comfortable discussion on wants and needs should be had very, very early on. I made the mistake with my first husband in not understanding the powerful force compatibility is, I don't just mean sexual styles but also frequency and how important it is to each person.

My current relationship started out as a bit of fun for both of us but having sex early and forming a wonderful relationship are not mutually exclusive, 3.5 yrs down the track and we are more and more in love every day. This is second time round for both of us, we have a blended family of 5 teenagers, some big life issues over that time etc but our strong sexual compatibility and chemistry sees us through the not so easy times.

Don't sell yourself short but also don't think having sex early means you are selling yourself short. IMHO sex is a gender equal proposition, men and women all vary in drive and style levels, find a guy that is compatible with you and stop stringing the others along.


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## Kitt (Jun 3, 2015)

I waited until marriage.....we have sex everyday now so waiting does not mean you are low drive.....and you should do it at your own pace. I think of it as exploring and sharing bodies and minds and hearts so I'm not surprised I waited until I found someone special and willing to respect my need to wait. I was deathly afraid of pregnancy before marriage and then just decided that I wanted it to be special. I had watched most of my girlfriends throughout my life have sex with random faceless dudes or consecutive boyfriends and it just looked exhausting and emotionally violatile. 
My husband is a hottie but he is also kind and patient and we are so very compatible. Both of our sex drives is very high so I don't think waiting hurt us or our relationship at all. You do you and don't worry about the guys who will fall away after the third sexless date. The only thing I would recommend is to be upfront. I told all of my boyfriends my stance on sex but was very warm and open to kissing and making out. If they wanted more, they could get it somewhere else, and I would move on. I was worth waiting for...loyal, kind, attractive, smart and passionate. I have never even flirted with another man since I made my commitment to my spouse. Casual sex just wasn't in my modus operandi. I never regretted being exactly who I am and sticking to my values.


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## Joey2k (Oct 3, 2014)

lovelygirl said:


> I understand and to be honest with you, this "norm" is one of the reasons why many of my dates have ended so far.
> But does it mean I have to do something against my desire just to please the guy and use sex as a tool to keep him?
> 
> I don't want to do that and I haven't so far.


You're not obligated to do anything with a guy you don't want to or aren't ready to. Just like the guy isn't obligated to wait around and do things on your timetable if he isn't getting what he needs from the relationship or feel like it is progressing.

What do you think you have to offer that would make it worthwhile for a guy to wait months for you to be ready when there are many other women who would have sex much sooner (serious question, not trying to disparage you)?


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## Seeker40 (Jun 22, 2015)

lovelygirl said:


> 1 - Men, while you are dating someone, what do you consider to be a _long_ time before you kiss each other or make out?
> 
> 2- What do you think of the girl if she makes out with you on the first date ?
> 
> ...


I'm an American male, and I've lived for years in western Europe. I've been out of the dating scene for over a decade, but when I did date (and if I start again):

If I'm passionately attracted to a woman, I'd want to kiss them as soon as possible. The anticipation can be fun, but I don't want to wait a long time.

I don't form opinions about a woman based on how much she puts out on the first date. Kissing, sex, etc. do not define the person.

Someone that doesn't wait a long time = someone I know is interested and having fun with me.

Someone that waits a long time = someone that may or may not be interested in me, may be playing games, big question mark.

*** This paragraph may be disputed by others - I'm speaking from my own experience when I was younger *** 
The basic guidelines for dating in the States, at least for my generation when I was younger, was for the woman to have a first date with or without a kiss at the end, followed by a second date with kissing involved, and a third date where anything goes. I've never followed this, it's more a cultural "norm" based on movies that teens watch growing up. As a whole, at least for my generation, this was what could be expected from a typical date but it wasn't a strict rule that had to be followed.

Most of my past relationships were passionate, lightning strike attractions. I knew they were right for me. The other person felt the same way as I did. I'd give them time if they wanted it, but I always made it clear that I was interested. I don't recall a relationship where we weren't sleeping together within a few days of hanging out or after a couple dates.


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## Jetranger (May 31, 2013)

lovelygirl said:


> 1 - Men, while you are dating someone, what do you consider to be a _long_ time before you kiss each other or make out?


If nothing has happened by the third date, I figure she isn't that into me so much as she is the money I'm spending on her.



> 2- What do you think of the girl if she makes out with you on the first date ?


That she is really attracted to me. I don't think negatively of her, since that's what you're probably wondering.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

Joey2k said:


> You're not obligated to do anything with a guy you don't want to or aren't ready to. Just like the guy isn't obligated to wait around and do things on your timetable if he isn't getting what he needs from the relationship or feel like it is progressing.


Fair enough. 



> What do you think you have to offer that would make it worthwhile for a guy to wait months for you to be ready when there are many other women who would have sex much sooner (serious question, not trying to disparage you)?


First off, I'm not saying he should wait for month*s*. Even I wouldn't wait for months, to begin with. Just because I don't like to take things further since the first date, doesn't mean I'd wait months 'til we get intimate.

What I would offer depends:
a) On the attraction level we'd have for each other;
b) The _expectations_ we had towards each other within a certain amount of time.

What I know is that I'd be willing to offer him a lot more after a while than I would if sex came up earlier than I expected.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

I try to look at this from a few angles. First, from my own POV as a dude. Granted, if I ever had to date again, something would have gone terribly wrong, so who knows what my frame of mind I would be in at that point, but my guess not a great one. If I did have to date though I really don't know what my "parameters" would be. If I was just looking to have fun or get laid, I would make that known to whomever I was seeing up front, and if nothing happened I would move on pretty quick. However, if I was actually looking for a relationship I would have no issues being patient assuming she met everything else I was looking for. Honestly, in this case I would find it a little bit of a turn off if within the first few dates she was ready to sleep with me (no matter how incredibly charming I am  ). I like the idea of a buildup/tension, working for it (on both our sides), you are not going to win me over just b/c you are ready to spread um after 2-3 dates. Now I don't know exactly what I consider being patient, it would probably be on a case by case basis. I would definitely not wait for marriage, and if I had to guess I would say maybe a couple of months would be my max wait time, otherwise it would feel more like a friendship. Like Thundarr said though, the key would be to communicate why we are waiting, a simple "I am just not ready" answer would get old quick.




SimplyAmorous said:


> I feel for you ...I feel for my own daughter in yrs to come ...as casual sex is the norm today ....just seems like people use each other like disposables....it's rarely anything very special...you see it everywhere, touted ... "It's JUST SEX!"... like what the He** is wrong with you!...


As far as SAs quote above, this is exactly what I worry about, and try to look at things from the POV of a parent. All I can do is hope my wife and I teach our daughter (and our sons too) to have enough respect for themselves to do things on their own terms. We will push the concept that sex should be special and there is nothing wrong with being patient, understanding that there will be a lot of pressure thrown at them as they enter the dating world. At the end of the day though it will be their decision, and as long as they act on it b/c that is what they want to do and not b/c it it was someone else wants, I will be fine with.

I have seen mentioned here and elsewhere I have heard this idea that women nowadays (like I said, been out of the dating game for quite a long time now) feel like they need to put out early on in order to keep a guy interested or for moving on to the next female. Is that pretty accurate? If that is the mentality, tbh I can't see a reason why guys would change unless females start pushing back.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

EllisRedding said:


> I have seen mentioned here and elsewhere I have heard this idea that women nowadays (like I said, been out of the dating game for quite a long time now) feel like they need to put out early on in order to keep a guy interested or for moving on to the next female. Is that pretty accurate? If that is the mentality, tbh I can't see a reason why guys would change unless females start pushing back.


This has been the case since at least the sexual revolution, and probably even before then. Technology and acceptance of women's sexuality has just accelerated it.

I have a single buddy that only does hook-ups. All he does is go up on Tinder, swipe a few girls, send a text or two, and poof! Some girl is on his doorstep just looking for sex.

Sometimes they don't even give their name.

Girls like sex, too. Sometimes some of them just want to hook up, sometimes they just want anonymous sex.

It happens. I don't see how it's different than half the girls I know going home from the bar with some random guy on the weekends.

Just educate everybody to respect themselves and each other, play safe, make good long-term decisions, and make mature ones.

Why women having casual sex is a threat to society I have no idea.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

marduk said:


> This has been the case since at least the sexual revolution, and probably even before then. Technology and acceptance of women's sexuality has just accelerated it.
> 
> I have a single buddy that only does hook-ups. All he does is go up on Tinder, swipe a few girls, send a text or two, and poof! Some girl is on his doorstep just looking for sex.
> 
> ...


Agreed, especially on the bolded. I think the only difference though, I am talking about the females who feel like they have to have sex with a guy earlier than they would like just to keep them, which is different then having sex b/c they want to. 

I do scratch my head when I hear some females comment about how hurt/pissed they are when they sleep with a guy right away and then he disappears. Maybe that is for a different topic?


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

EllisRedding said:


> Agreed, especially on the bolded. I think the only difference though, I am talking about the females who feel like they have to have sex with a guy earlier than they would like just to keep them, which is different then having sex b/c they want to.
> 
> I do scratch my head when I hear some females comment about how hurt/pissed they are when they sleep with a guy right away and then he disappears. Maybe that is for a different topic?


It happens to some guys, too. Just like some people move in before they're ready, get married before they are ready, have kids before they are ready...

And, hell, some people will never be ready for some things. I wasn't ready to have kids. I'm sure glad I did.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

Holland said:


> So agree with this.
> 
> OP to me it is about finding someone compatible, there is no right or wrong way. Reading your posts you come across as saying that sex is a prize that has to be won, that is fine but it also says that sex is not necessarily a priority to you, again that is all good but you can't expect a person that does believe it to be a priority to jump through hoops to win the prize. There are plenty of men that also want to take it slower, they are the ones you will be compatible with. Don't waste your or their time with the ones you are not going to be compatible.


I actually didn't mean that sex is not a priority. It actually is VERY important in a relationship. All I'm saying is that it doesn't have to be on the first few dates. 




> Don't sell yourself short but also don't think having sex early means you are selling yourself short. IMHO sex is a gender equal proposition, men and women all vary in drive and style levels, find a guy that is compatible with you and stop stringing the others along.


True.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

EllisRedding said:


> However, if I was actually looking for a relationship I would have no issues being patient assuming she met everything else I was looking for. Honestly, in this case I would find it a little bit of a turn off if within the first few dates she was ready to sleep with me (no matter how incredibly charming I am  ). I like the idea of a buildup/tension, working for it (on both our sides), you are not going to win me over just b/c you are ready to spread um after 2-3 dates.


You totally got my point!!!! :smthumbup:
I think the same! 



> I have seen mentioned here and elsewhere I have heard this idea that women nowadays (like I said, been out of the dating game for quite a long time now) feel like they need to put out early on in order to keep a guy interested or for moving on to the next female. Is that pretty accurate?


It pretty much is. :|


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## Joey2k (Oct 3, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> I have seen mentioned here and elsewhere I have heard this idea that women nowadays (like I said, been out of the dating game for quite a long time now) feel like they need to put out early on in order to keep a guy interested or for moving on to the next female. Is that pretty accurate? If that is the mentality, tbh I can't see a reason why guys would change unless females start pushing back.


It's a misconception that women picked up somewhere along the way. At least the part that sleeping with a guy will keep him interested. As many have pointed out, it is true that holding out for too long can make a guy lose interest, but if he doesn't see you as relationship material, sleeping with him early won't change his mind about that. He may sleep with you (because, hello, it's sex), but if he doesn't see you as long term potential that won't convince him otherwise. It won't get him to stay where he wold have left otherwise.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

Joey2k said:


> It's a misconception that women picked up somewhere along the way. At least the part that sleeping with a guy will keep him interested. As many have pointed out, it is true that holding out for too long can make a guy lose interest, but if he doesn't see you as relationship material, sleeping with him early won't change his mind about that. He may sleep with you (because, hello, it's sex), but if he doesn't see you as long term potential that won't convince him otherwise. It won't get him to stay where he wold have left otherwise.


That's true. I wonder if it's easy for guys to change their mind about a girl for the time they're sleeping together. 
Do you usually stick to their first impression? (even if the girl tries to prove she's different..)


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> NO !! It's not too much to ask.. I feel for you ...I feel for my own daughter in yrs to come ...as casual sex is the norm today ....just seems like people use each other like disposables....it's rarely anything very special...you see it everywhere, touted ... "It's JUST SEX!"... like what the He** is wrong with you!...


It's just reality, true love is like hitting the jackpot

But most people won't hit it, so they compromise, and do what they have to do for some "loving" wiping the fairytale out of their minds.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

RandomDude said:


> It's just reality, true love is like hitting the jackpot
> 
> But most people won't hit it, so they compromise, and do what they have to do for some "loving" wiping the fairy tale out of their minds.


People give up on it far too early Random Dude.. and anyway.. it's not about a Fairy tale for the vast majority.. it is more about getting Experience, scratching an ITCH... Pleasure in the moment (they don't understand those who hold out)....it's an "Eat, drunk & F***" culture.... the majority today does not see self control in this area as a virtue.. most find this thinking ...religious, holding back one's sexuality and archaic. 

You might as well speak it like the rest of them...why bring the Fairy Tale into it. 

It's an *entirely different mindset* on how some of us approach relationships..is all.. If 2 people deeply care about such things...these types should seek each other out, even if they are harder to find today..... I do separate those who have the casual mindset from those who seek emotional attachment *1st*..

It's like this.. we took our son to a College orientation over night. some Dude was in his dorm saying "AWE, wish I had some beer right now, everyone would be partying in my room"... and my son was thinking to himself.. "Not me BUD!".. (no he didn't say it) -he was telling me this the next morning... the kid he was with also felt the same....after he made a comment to son. 

People want different things... that partier & my son have one thing in common.. Both want to enjoy themselves.. of course! Life should be FUN.. but indulging getting drunk.. or using sex for a HIGH -without substance.. well some of us don't see that as commendable.. it's worth waiting for something REAL, that has a chance of lasting... 

I also feel it's best to be friends 1st ...others would say that's the death of passion.. I don't feel so.. I don't think anyone would say I lack passion.. 

People can find Love in a variety of ways....and their own fairy tale after kissing many frogs ....We could argue till the cows come home which is the best course... when we see those who JUMP into sex easily... it generally does NOT last, then comes the jokes about his D*** , he's got name about her... was it worth the short ride? 

I guess it's up to us to answer that ..

When you meet another & are REALLY TAKEN BY THEM.... you should want to show them it's more than just feeling up their dress, the pleasure bang......I've heard many on the other side say "Sex is easy , the emotional is HARD "...(showing one's core, being vulnerable scares the daylights out of some)... and they continue to short cut it...why? this is where connection is born... 

Challenge it....take that time... go out.... experience things together doing, sharing. ..laughing... showing someone you CARE ...that they are special to you...with this, there is the thrill of sweet ANTICIPATION..... a build up...TRUST GROWS, you open up deeper, a little more physical along with the emotional that has been climbing steadily..... that's laying a firm foundation.

Less about Fairy Tale... I see the problem MORE so... everywhere we look we see Broken Dysfunctional relationships, whether single or married.. communication/ understanding takes a dive, or there wasn't compatibility in the beginning (just hot sex -this can not sustain!)...another lover dumped.... we all feel replaceable (disposable again).. too many experiences like this...how do we not lose trust in them... 

It's gotta start with us.. do we have what it takes to be the other half of a healthy partnership.... do we even want it ? Do we expect more from someone else than we are willing to give ourselves ??


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> People give up on it far too early Random Dude.. and anyway.. it's not about a Fairy tale for the vast majority.. it is more about getting Experience, scratching an ITCH... Pleasure in the moment (they don't understand those who hold out)....it's an "Eat, drunk & F***" culture.... the majority today does not see self control in this area as a virtue.. most find this thinking ...religious, holding back one's sexuality and archaic.
> 
> You might as well speak it like the rest of them...why bring the Fairy Tale into it.
> 
> ...


It's a very tricking thing SA, because I've sung both the tune of "fairytale is bullsh-t" as well as "fairytale is worth it", and I can also sing the tune of "experience beats holding out" yet I can also respect those who believe "holding out is worth it" - because it can be, and it is for alot of people.

However I can see what you mean in regards to society's pressure now in modern times breaking away from the traditional and conservative approach. My cousin sister for example used to be a good girl but since teens she has completely rebelled. Her parents wonder if they have been too controlling with her, but at the same time I can't endorse what she has been doing to herself either, sex, drugs, failing her subjects. It's quite complicated this topic.

I'm actually on the fence with this whole thing at the moment, dreading the time when my daughter comes of age.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

*Re: UPDATES - new situation - kissed/made out after e "long" time..? -*

*Updates:*

I'm finding myself to be in a typical confusing situation. 

For the past 5 weeks, I've been out on more than 10 dates with a guy I met recently. [Let's call him *C*]. We've been meeting each-other almost daily. At this point, I'm ready to have sex with him but I think he's a bit too nice and taking things a bit too slowly, which is starting to bore me and turn me off. I still stand by my idea that having sex on the first 3 dates is soon, but after the 10th date I'm more than ready to sleep with him now. He's not realizing it, or better...he's seems to be afraid to take this step. 
The thing is that on the 3rd date he openly told me that he genuinely likes me and wants me to be his girlfriend. I wasn't sure back then and I let him know it, but we've been going out and have kissed each other on all dates (starting from the 4th date). I've given him hints that I want his company and we're flirty with each other but I think he's still reluctant to show his "wild" side (maybe because of my initial attitude at the beginning of our dates. I remember he even told me that when he first saw my picture he thought of me as prudish but he changed his mind after the kisses and make-outs that we've had with on our dates. We are not official partners yet but it doesn't mean he should wait in vain and wait for my my further hints. I am a very sexual person but I don't feel like showing my sexual side with him yet... because he's not showing it with me that much as well. When he touches my body I can feel his uncertainty weather to keep going or not....

On the other hand, last Saturday I met another guy [*D*] who had been asking me out 2 times in the past and for some reason, I refused to meet him back then. But this Saturday, I decided to meet him and I even told *C* when he asked me who I was going out with. *C* said he wasn't happy about it but decided not to stop me from doing it given that we're not officially a couple yet. 
*D* is different from *C*. He is more confident, straightforward and more macho... [at the risk of being a player too]. Regardless of that, I started feeling aroused by *D*'s presence that night [he by mine as well] and at the end of our date....he grabbed my body, leaned me up against the wall and kissed me hard...by touching my body in a sexual way. I admit, I enjoyed it A LOT and even-though he insisted things went further, I stopped it.

*C* was waiting for my call that night [after he had sent me 2 messages] and I called him as soon as I got home. He asked me about the details of the date and I told him everything except for the kiss/make out. :| I feel guilty and I haven't exchanged any messages with *D* from that night [even-though he has sent me several ones]. I plan to leave *D* out of the picture for a while but if *C* doesn't make his move soon, I'm afraid I'll go back to *D*, who actually doesn't know I'm already seeing someone. :frown2:

The thing is that *C* does everything so right and respects and treats me so well, gives me the security I've been looking for... that he could be a potential future long-life partner, but by taking things this slowly (especially with D around the corner), *C* risks being friend-zoned.

Meanwhile, I am aware that I might end up having none of them if either of them knows that I'm in contact with both.

Pretty unfair...I know...


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## SARAHMCD (Jul 2, 2014)

Maybe C wants to be exclusive before taking it any further? He took the fact that you didn't when he first asked you to be his girlfriend meant that he should slow down or back off sexually. Perhaps you need to have this discussion with him - if that's what you want of course.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

SARAHMCD said:


> Maybe C wants to be exclusive before taking it any further? He took the fact that you didn't when he first asked you to be his girlfriend meant that he should slow down or back off sexually. Perhaps you need to have this discussion with him - if that's what you want of course.


C wants to be exclusive just like I do. 
D came into picture only 2 days ago...so C had plenty of time to enjoy the exclusivity for the past 5 weeks ...until 2 days ago.
So, the exclusivity has nothing to do with why C is taking it slowly. But I'm guessing my initial rejection made him take it slowly...


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## SARAHMCD (Jul 2, 2014)

_I wasn't sure back then and I let him know it_

_We are not official partners yet_

Now you're saying you do want to be exclusive with C. The above quotes confused me. I thought you had told him you didn't wish to "be his girlfriend"? To me that means you're saying you did not want to be exclusive. So he took that as a go slow or possibly a stop sign. Maybe he doesn't want to sleep with someone who doesn't wish to be exclusive with him and may have multiple partners. 
So you say you gave him 5 weeks of being exclusive - I'm not even sure what that means? You had your dating door left open obviously if you ended up going out with someone else. IMO you were never exclusive if you were still looking. You've now validated his fears by dating someone else. 
Have you really given C a chance here?


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## Joey2k (Oct 3, 2014)

*Re: UPDATES - new situation - kissed/made out after e "long" time..? -*



lovelygirl said:


> *Updates:*
> 
> I'm finding myself to be in a typical confusing situation.
> 
> ...


So you are giving C absolutely no indication that you want to have sex, and then expect him to try to have sex with you?

What's worse, sounds like you told him you wanted to go slow and take your time, and he thinks he's doing that and giving you what you want, when what you really want and what really turns you on is someone like D who is pushy about it.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

*Re: UPDATES - new situation - kissed/made out after e "long" time..? -*



Joey2k said:


> So you are giving C absolutely no indication that you want to have sex, and then expect him to try to have sex with you?
> 
> What's worse, sounds like you told him you wanted to go slow and take your time, and he thinks he's doing that and giving you what you want, when what you really want and what really turns you on is someone like D who is pushy about it.


That confused me too. I guess it's that fine line between being sexually aggressive enough to keep a girl interested (which I gather C wasn't and D was) but respectful enough of how slowly/quickly she wants to go based on her responses. 

I guess what confused me, OP is why you didn't tell D about your dating other people? It seems like if you are kissing someone, whether or not you have technically had "The Talk" about what you're looking for from dating, you owe them the truth at the very least. You seem conflicted, so deep down, I think you probably know this. If you want to date both, and they are both comfortable with that, do it. But it seems deceitful (even if that is not who you are). For your own well being and theirs, be straight with them and yourself. What do you REALLY want?


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

SARAHMCD said:


> _I wasn't sure back then and I let him know it_
> 
> _We are not official partners yet_
> 
> Now you're saying you do want to be exclusive with C. The above quotes confused me. I thought you had told him you didn't wish to "be his girlfriend"? To me that means you're saying you did not want to be exclusive.


No, to me is a bit different.
Being exclusive is not necessarily related to being someone's partner. 
You could be dates and you choose to be exclusive or non-exclusive dates ...until you get into a relationship. 

What I told C back then was that I wasn't sure how I felt about him - meaning I wasn't ready to be his girlfriend yet, but in terms of exclusivity - I was exclusive to him and he to me. We were only dating each other and no one else. This lasted for 5 weeks ...until a few days ago when *D* got back in the picture.
So for 5 weeks were exclusive and C did nothing.

Now that D came into the picture, things have changed a bit.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

*Re: UPDATES - new situation - kissed/made out after e "long" time..? -*



Joey2k said:


> So you are giving C absolutely no indication that you want to have sex, and then expect him to try to have sex with you?
> 
> What's worse, sounds like you told him you wanted to go slow and take your time, and he thinks he's doing that and giving you what you want, when what you really want and what really turns you on is someone like D who is *pushy *about it.


Pushy is not the right word. I don't want someone to be pushy about sex. I've been in a pushy situation a few years ago with my 1st boyfriend with whom I was in a relationship for almost 9 months. He was so pushy about sex that he didnt' respect my feelings towards it.
As a result, he got no sex for 9 months.

Being pushy and being confident are 2 different things. D is more confident about it. 

If he was pushy, I would be turned off. 

I talked to C about this lack of confidence in him. Guess what he said:
"My room is very messy and I can't let you get in there..." 

Really????? 
For 5 weeks he had no time to clean it up??


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

*Re: UPDATES - new situation - kissed/made out after e "long" time..? -*



joannacroc said:


> That confused me too. I guess it's that *fine line between being sexually aggressive enough to keep a girl interested (which I gather C wasn't and D was) but respectful enough of how slowly/quickly she wants to go* based on her responses.


THANK YOU!

Very well said! :smthumbup: 



> I guess what confused me, OP is why you didn't tell D about your dating other people? It seems like if you are kissing someone, whether or not you have technically had "The Talk" about what you're looking for from dating, you owe them the truth at the very least. You seem conflicted, so deep down, I think you probably know this. If you want to date both, and they are both comfortable with that, do it. But it seems deceitful (even if that is not who you are). For your own well being and theirs, be straight with them and yourself. What do you REALLY want?


:frown2:

I'm not sure about neither of them. I'm afraid D wants me just for sex. I need to make sure it's this before I let him go...


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

*Re: UPDATES - new situation - kissed/made out after e "long" time..? -*



lovelygirl said:


> 1 - Men, while you are dating someone, what do you consider to be a _long_ time before you kiss each other or make out?
> 
> 2- What do you think of the girl if she makes out with you on the first date ?
> 
> ...


I went on a first date last night and was very typical in how I handled it. No more than a touch on the arm, then offered to walk her to her car, as we walk I warn her that I will kiss her soon. I then kiss her once we are at the car, for about ten seconds or more. Then I leave it there.

Typically, in my experience of the US, most girls will wait until the second date. The first date is very rare, on occasion it can be three or four.

In Denmark, you had to have a strong sexual relationship before you advanced to dating. But only if she was sure she was ready for that.


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## Joey2k (Oct 3, 2014)

*Re: UPDATES - new situation - kissed/made out after e "long" time..? -*



lovelygirl said:


> I talked to C about this lack of confidence in him. Guess what he said:
> "My room is very messy and I can't let you get in there..."
> 
> Really?????
> For 5 weeks he had no time to clean it up??


My guess, that's not the real reason. 

He probably made some moves early on (however slight), got the impression that you weren't ready, so he was waiting for some indication from you that you were, which you (deliberately, according to you) did not give him. When you asked about it, he came up with an excuse that wasn't likely to result in an argument or uncomfortable conversation.

My opinion, this is on you. You told the guy you weren't ready for sex, then got upset when he didn't try anyway. He probably felt like if he had tried without the OK from you after you said you weren't ready, you would think he was pushy and pressuring you.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

*Re: UPDATES - new situation - kissed/made out after e "long" time..? -*



Joey2k said:


> My guess, that's not the real reason.
> 
> He probably made some moves early on (however slight), got the impression that you weren't ready, so he was waiting for some indication from you that you were, which you (deliberately, according to you) did not give him. When you asked about it, he came up with an excuse that wasn't likely to result in an argument or uncomfortable conversation.
> 
> My opinion, this is on you. You told the guy you weren't ready for sex, then got upset when he didn't try anyway. He probably felt like if he had tried without the OK from you after you said you weren't ready, you would think he was pushy and pressuring you.


Agreed, that is the sense I get as well. Also, knowing that you went on a date with D, that might actually deter C from pursuing sex (he might not know what you are doing with D, doesn't want to be a sloppy second, etc...).


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