# Chores



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

I would like to talk about The division of house chores again. I recently read that the top 4 things spouses argue over are: 
1. The division of chores. 
2. What “clean” is. 
3. Sex. 
4 money. 

Since two out of the four have to do with expectations and the division of household chores I would like to talk about. 

In an ideal world things should be 50-50. In an ideal world we should appreciate what our spouses do. But in the real world we get tired and cranky, and we think things should of been done that wasn’t done, or we don’t feel appreciated, One person thinks they need more help while the other person thinks they already do so much and it’s not appreciated. 

So here are my questions... does who makes more money matter in the division of chores? Or does the number of hours worked matter? Or does the type of hours matter? Or are chores defined before and regardless or job/hours.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

I don't know if making more money sets the standard. But what l will say is who contributes more to the family circle. Weather it be hrs worked, and even the type of hrs worked applies. But just money isn't a good idea. 

If one can think of something this way, if you made the mess You! Clean it up, and if this is done it relieves the burden of role playing. Then a planned time is set for both to do general cleaning where both can do things together. Then after it's done go out and treat yourselves as a couple further bonding the relationship.


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## Cat Lady (May 7, 2019)

I think that if you see something that needs doing, you should do it. Quit thinking about who ‘should’ do it. And if you’re in a relationship where the other person feels the need to keep track of stuff and tally up points and get mad that you haven’t done something they think you should have, why are you with them? People have different expectations of what ‘clean’ is, and if my husband thinks the floor needs to be swept every day but I couldn’t care whether it is or not, why should he get mad if I don’t do it?? He should just do it. 

I work half as many hours at the office as he does, but I have a home business and look after grandkids a lot. I probably end up doing more than him because I am home more, and I tend to see something and just do it then, not plan chores out. But he does stuff that recurs like garbage every Tuesday night - if I feel like it I help him, if I don’t I don’t. I can’t recall EVER fighting about chores. 

Of course if you have kids at home the whole scenario changes dramatically and what I’ve said doesn’t apply - kids need to be assigned chores and taught how to do them.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

And to what clean is it will hardly be the same so if your partner is doing there best accept that as good enough. Or you are pushing them in a way, as not to participate or do because it's never good enough.

Sex, should be mutual and because of the lack of communication, sleep, or anxiety removes the sensualistic part of the love or feelings one holds for the other. And not be withheld, this only creates conflict and resentment.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Which of those four things is not about chores?
1. The division of chores is about division. relationships are about coming together, if you want to come together you need to stop dividing and start multiplying. The happiest couple I know has a simple family rule about chores, that rule has eliminated chores and division in their lives. The rule is if you see something that needs to be done, just do it. 
2. What clean is, usually can be translated into "who has the power here" we had a woman on this board a few years back who promoted female led relationships. She, refreshingly, put the power struggle first, but her total definition of who is in charge in the relationship came down to who washes the dishes. Again the happiest couple I personally know washes up after meals together. They don't worry about who is in charge, because they are partners.
3. Sex. I can put a post on any social media platform and come up with 10 women in the first hour who will declare that sex is just another chore. And one man. If you do it wrong, absolutely anything can be made into a chore. 
4. Money. if getting money isn't a chore then spending it would be. 

My very serious advice to anyone who is willing to listen is to not allow the destroying influence of "chores" into your life. 
And to the rest of you, I will deny upfront that I have ever, and am not by the previous statement, suggesting that anyone live in a pigsty.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Of course I think if you make a mess you should clean it up. But what about cooking every day, doing the dishes after cooking, dusting and cleaning the bathroom and toilets. Grocery shopping. 

I think that cooking is a big one. It’s time consuming, and it takes planning.

I mean nobody likes to come home from work and have to cook a meal and clean after. But somebody has to do it.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I don't see the important issue being money, but instead its total time spent on work+chores. If one person happens to earn a lot more per hour, I don't see that as reducing the chores they do - they are in it together and to me that means splitting effort. 

My wife and I both work similar hour jobs, so we split chores reasonably evenly. Its always difficult to be completely fair, but I think we both feel the division is as close to fair as it can be. We have similar standards on how clean the house should be and we have maid service to do the majority of the cleaning.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Girl_power said:


> I would like to talk about The division of house chores again. I recently read that the top 4 things spouses argue over are:
> 1. The division of chores.
> 2. What “clean” is.
> 3. Sex.
> 4 money.


Did they say that list was in order of what people argue about? I would think it would be things like sex, money, and kids at the top. The chores and level of cleanliness seems like issues that would come up early in the relationship and be resolved or cause a breakup. If chores are continually a major point of contention in a relationship, that's a sign of a fundamental difference in viewpoint.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

I don’t know why but this is a really big thing for me, and a constant struggle. And I am just wondering if I am the only person that feels this way. 

So right now, it’s just me in an apartment, so I obviously do everything and work a full time job with overtime. But it’s a constant struggle to have a balanced life... work, maintain home, eat healthy, exercise, have a social life. 

In my marriage it was a struggle. I had to do everything because my exH worked 100hrs a week essentially. So I knew he couldn’t help out. I worked full time, and I felt like I was constantly doing chores and could never catch up. When I had a day off, I wouldn’t get dressed, because I would be cleaning all day, then working out etc. and my problem was I felt like a maid, instead of a young successful sexy wife/women. I remember having a discussion about this with my ex and he was like you turn yourself into a maid, it’s not that he treats me like a maid. He obviously wanted his sexy wife to be a sexy attractive wife. But instead he got a tired, over worked, girl dressed in pajamas with her hair not done or wet from the shower when he came home at night. 

I don’t know if I am the only one, but I have always struggled with balancing life, and at the same time being a happy peppy attractive women to come home to.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

wilson said:


> Did they say that list was in order of what people argue about? I would think it would be things like sex, money, and kids at the top. The chores and level of cleanliness seems like issues that would come up early in the relationship and be resolved or cause a breakup. If chores are continually a major point of contention in a relationship, that's a sign of a fundamental difference in viewpoint.




I think this was an article that was meant for people without kids. And I’m not sure if it’s ordered correctly or not. And also, it’s what we argue about most not what causes divorce the most.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

https://www.bustle.com/p/5-things-married-couples-fight-about-the-most-8154508


This one is 
1. How cleaning should be done
2. What clean should look like 
3. Sex
4. How much screen time we should have 
5. Money


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

It’s interesting because the newer articles talk about technology and our phones and screen time being a point of contention. I 100% see this being a new issue, especially with the younger generation.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Regarding chores, I feel like if you see it needs to be done, then just do it. (ex- when you throw something away that makes the trash full, take it out) Also if you make a mess, clean it up. As far as dividing up those chores that are ongoing, my suggestion is to divide it up based on who hates what more, lol.. If I HATE doing dishes and for you, it not a thing, then you do the dishes. If you hate vacuuming and dusting and I think its a non-issue, then I am designated vacuumer-duster. That kind of thing. If there is something we BOTH hate, then take turns. Decide who does the cooking based on who gets home first on what days, then the other person is on cleanup. Teamwork!


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

3Xnocharm said:


> Regarding chores, I feel like if you see it needs to be done, then just do it. (ex- when you throw something away that makes the trash full, take it out) Also if you make a mess, clean it up. As far as dividing up those chores that are ongoing, my suggestion is to divide it up based on who hates what more, lol.. If I HATE doing dishes and for you, it not a thing, then you do the dishes. If you hate vacuuming and dusting and I think its a non-issue, then I am designated vacuumer-duster. That kind of thing. If there is something we BOTH hate, then take turns. Decide who does the cooking based on who gets home first on what days, then the other person is on cleanup. Teamwork!




I’m just crabby because my hours are awesome and I always get home first. So even though I work the same amount of hours and get paid way more, it sucks because it seems I will have to do more chores just due to the fact I get home hours before.


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

“If you see something needs done do it” sound great in theory. Here is how that play out in my house.

I am the primary earner. 65/35. 

D2 handles laundry

I cook
Dishes
Sweep, mop, pick up
Vacuum
Clean toilets/baths/showers
Yard work, snow removal
After school and weekend child activities
Groceries

Why? Because I see it needs done and she won’t do it or help when I do.

The kids follow her example more than mine. So it is either fight them all or just do it myself.

GP, your list hit my big 4 argue topics right on the nose.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Girl_power said:


> I’m just crabby because my hours are awesome and I always get home first. So even though I work the same amount of hours and get paid way more, it sucks because it seems I will have to do more chores just due to the fact I get home hours before.


I get the sense that you have a higher standard for cleanliness and would keep the house neater no matter what. Even if he was home 100% of the time, I'm not sure he would keep the house as neat as you would want. Are the chores you're doing after work daily chores like putting the dishes away? Or are they chores to keep the house as you like, such as vacuuming, cleaning the bathrooms, etc?


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

You could view commute time as also counting as work / chore time.

If you both work, depending on your money situation, maid service is not crazy. We started doing that because we realized that more than half of our "free" time was going to cleaning. At some point the extra time is worth more than the money. Of course completely depends on your financial situation. I have found that in general its sometimes worth spending money to get more time. 




Girl_power said:


> I’m just crabby because my hours are awesome and I always get home first. So even though I work the same amount of hours and get paid way more, it sucks because it seems I will have to do more chores just due to the fact I get home hours before.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

I don’t think anything will ever be 50/50 at any single moment in time. Interestingly, the only LTR I’ve been in where she demanded it be 50/50 all the time, it actually ended up being 100 me and 0% her, because of perceived inequality in the past, my continued inability to live up to her expectations with the quality of cleaning or cooking, or “the patriarchy.”

So I don’t like that model.

The model I do like, is where it feels fair overall. That’s going to be different for different people, how much they work outside the home, how much they get to do things they like vs things they don’t like. That kind of thing.

The last time my wife and I argued about chores was when she asked me to vacuum upstairs. While I was chugging away doing it, she came upstairs and criticized my job - by saying I wasn’t getting the lines in the carpet right. I looked down, and for the first time in my life, noticed that vacuuming leaves lines in the carpet much like mowing leaves lines in the grass. I looked at her, looked down at the carpet, and said I don’t care about the lines. She got very critical, so I just dropped the vacuum on the floor, shrugged, and walked away.

Of course after the nuclear war that caused ended in a peace treaty, we agreed to “pink” jobs and “blue” jobs. We each got to pick stuff we either liked doing, or didn’t mind doing. And we got to put stuff we hated doing onto the other person’s list.

I now do everything that happens outside the house - yard work, exterior maintenance, vehicles, BBQing, etc. I actually like doing that stuff, and she hates it. We have a fairly large lot with lots of trees, and it’s heavy, messy work. I also pay all the bills, manage our finances, keep our shared family calendar up to date, do all the IT work in the house (we have many macs, laptops, ipads, iphones, etc). House maintenance stuff as well.

She does 90+% of the cooking (she loves to cook and to feed people) and the dishes (she hates the way I do it). Grocery shopping. Gets the kids to school. Sorts out kid’s school stuff and schedules. She’s a SAHM and student and loves that stuff. Most of the light cleaning and keeping the house picked up. Laundry.

We also have our kids doing a lot - from mowing the lawn and shoveling the walk to taking out the garbage, making dinners once a week, cleaning and tidying, helping with the dishes.

For the stuff we both hate doing - the heavy cleaning like bathrooms, vacuuming, etc, we have our friend’s live-in nanny come once a week to spend the day getting caught up on all that stuff while getting the backlog of laundry done. She even cooks us dinner that day! It’s awesome.

We also agreed to keep our own stuff sorted, and for the most part we do. We can point out if something hasn’t been done in a while or got missed, but we can’t criticize the way it gets done. We can ask for help with our stuff, but you can’t criticize how the person does it.

We’re both type A folks, which means that someone has to be in charge and we both naturally want to lead the work. We don’t share chores much as a consequence. 

Haven’t fought in years about it.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

In our home we try to have a "do what's next" approach.

When the floor is dirty, we sweep (or wash) it as soon as noticed.

When we use dishes for a meal, we wash them straight away after we've finished.

When the dust is noticed in an area, we dust that area.

There is no real ownership in my eyes although AC often see's me as taking on more than she would like but fair division is more being happy by helping another than chores themselves, it is a way to not let things build up to dissatisfaction in all things.

If the mundane is replaced with a smile and understanding, then leading by example is contagious.

"Wash your bowl" is a great koan...


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

wilson said:


> I get the sense that you have a higher standard for cleanliness and would keep the house neater no matter what. Even if he was home 100% of the time, I'm not sure he would keep the house as neat as you would want. Are the chores you're doing after work daily chores like putting the dishes away? Or are they chores to keep the house as you like, such as vacuuming, cleaning the bathrooms, etc?




When I come home from work I usually cook, do dishes after. Tidy up. Prepare for what I’m cooking the next day. It’s not that bad. 
But I also try to fit in working out a few times a week. Those days I workout I have to shower and do my hair (I have a ton of thick hair), and that takes at least an hour. And a few days a week I run the vacuum, sort Mail, pay bills, take out trash etc. on weekends I do laundry and deeper cleaning... whatever needs to be done. There is always something lol.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

DownButNotOut said:


> “If you see something needs done do it” sound great in theory. Here is how that play out in my house.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That’s exhausting.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

I struggle with cooking. 
I love to cook when I want to cook. I’m a good cook. I like to take a half a day and cook in Sunday’s and drink wine, and make things homemade and really good food. 

When I get home from work, I’m tired and usually hungry and I hate cooking. I really try to eat healthy and homemade as much as I can. I’m terrible and planning my meals. And what I end up doing is coming home tired and Grubhub something or running to the grocery store. I’ve tried meal prepping and it works for a short period of time then I just struggle again. It’s just doesn’t come easily or naturally for me. But cooking a huge meal on Sunday’s I love.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Girl_power said:


> I struggle with cooking.
> I love to cook when I want to cook. I’m a good cook. I like to take a half a day and cook in Sunday’s and drink wine, and make things homemade and really good food.
> 
> When I get home from work, I’m tired and usually hungry and I hate cooking. I really try to eat healthy and homemade as much as I can. I’m terrible and planning my meals. And what I end up doing is coming home tired and Grubhub something or running to the grocery store. I’ve tried meal prepping and it works for a short period of time then I just struggle again. It’s just doesn’t come easily or naturally for me. But cooking a huge meal on Sunday’s I love.


We’ve been using one of those “meal in a box” type deals once or twice a week. Everything arrives in a box, ready to make, with a recipe. Often stuff you’d never make or never even think of to make.

Takes about 30 minutes, is usually fun to cook, and the ones we’ve been doing are kid friendly. It’s cool to watch them cook some gourmet meal with pride.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

We agreed my wife work part time rather than full time (I was making more) in order do chores and free up time for “us”. We also have had a cleaning lady since before we got married.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

Marduk said:


> We’ve been using one of those “meal in a box” type deals once or twice a week. Everything arrives in a box, ready to make, with a recipe. Often stuff you’d never make or never even think of to make.
> 
> Takes about 30 minutes, is usually fun to cook, and the ones we’ve been doing are kid friendly. It’s cool to watch them cook some gourmet meal with pride.


We like to cook together. We haven’t used those kits but we did try Freshly, pre cooked meals, fresh not frozen (trying to limit cooking with the apartheid on the market). Microwaves on 3 minutes. Mixed results, ask yourself if you cooked it would it make good leftovers. But the verdict was acceptable, but not stellar.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Girl_power said:


> I would like to talk about The division of house chores again. I recently read that the top 4 things spouses argue over are:
> 1. The division of chores.
> 2. What “clean” is.
> 3. Sex.
> 4 money.


My W and I argue over #2 only. She is a bit OCD in the cleanliness however she will state I do a better job a cleaning. 1,3 and 4 are not worth arguing over. Chores(things that need to get done) are everyone's in our household. There are exceptions. I cut the lawn because I want to. My W does the laundry because she says I'm a roller and not a folder. Works for us. Other then that, pet care, dishwasher, trash, cleaning is everyone's chores. Sex, we like it....no argument there. Money, financially money is not an issue for us. Cooking, my W does the most because she enjoys it. I clean up afterwards. This works for us.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Girl_power said:


> I struggle with cooking.
> I love to cook when I want to cook. I’m a good cook. I like to take a half a day and cook in Sunday’s and drink wine, and make things homemade and really good food.
> 
> When I get home from work, I’m tired and usually hungry and I hate cooking. I really try to eat healthy and homemade as much as I can. I’m terrible and planning my meals. And what I end up doing is coming home tired and Grubhub something or running to the grocery store. I’ve tried meal prepping and it works for a short period of time then I just struggle again. It’s just doesn’t come easily or naturally for me. But cooking a huge meal on Sunday’s I love.


In this aspect you sound kind of like my wife. She would go to the store every night on the way home to get ingredients for a relatively involved dinner that would take a while to prep and cook and have lots of dishes to clean up. This meant she got home late, we ate late, and cleanup took a long time. It was a lot of effort on a weeknight when the time would have been better spent relaxing. She had trouble shopping for multiple meals since it would be overwhelming to think of what to get for multiple complicated meals.

What we do now is get more simple kits and build dinner that way. We get the salad kits, tomatoes, avocados, feta, etc. and add in a meat like grilled chicken, diced ham, etc. It's simple and easy with hardly any cleanup. We also get frozen stuff that we can augment. Like we'll get a frozen lasagne and we'll add italian sausage. Or we'll get frozen gumbo and add in more sausage and frozen shrimp. There's a lot of healthy-ish frozen pizzas that are pretty good if you add extra toppings. There's a lot of stuff in the frozen section which is family sized and will be meals for 2 nights. Have rice in the pantry. The salad veggies will need to be eaten in a few days, but a lot of that other stuff can be there for whenever you just want to put something together quick and easy. Being able to mix simple stuff together allows her the ability to satisfy her need to be creative, but it doesn't take a lot of time or effort. 

I think you can take a lot of the dinner stress off your plate by doing stuff like that for weeknight meals. Those can be simple and less creative. Then you can really enjoy spending time on the weekend making whatever you really enjoy.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

We've both gotten good at quick-to-cook meals. 

Stir fry can be quick - some random veggies, tofu, and pre-made stir-fry sauce. Along with instant rice. 

There are some store-bought pasta sauces that are good, add a sliced Tomato and browned ground beef, and it seems like its fresh. 






Girl_power said:


> I struggle with cooking.
> I love to cook when I want to cook. I’m a good cook. I like to take a half a day and cook in Sunday’s and drink wine, and make things homemade and really good food.
> 
> When I get home from work, I’m tired and usually hungry and I hate cooking. I really try to eat healthy and homemade as much as I can. I’m terrible and planning my meals. And what I end up doing is coming home tired and Grubhub something or running to the grocery store. I’ve tried meal prepping and it works for a short period of time then I just struggle again. It’s just doesn’t come easily or naturally for me. But cooking a huge meal on Sunday’s I love.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Try making dinners that create a lot of leftovers, that way you can cut down on the days you have to actually cook a meal. Maybe twice a week instead of every night. Maybe make a little extra of your good Sunday meals, too.


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## Cat Lady (May 7, 2019)

3Xnocharm said:


> Try making dinners that create a lot of leftovers, that way you can cut down on the days you have to actually cook a meal. Maybe twice a week instead of every night. Maybe make a little extra of your good Sunday meals, too.


Yes THIS. At any given time I have probably five meals in the deep freeze I can just heat up quickly. And I know what a ‘chore’ meal planning is but when I finally started doing it a few years ago and stuck to it, it made my life a hundred times simpler. We do it together every week or two. We also keep an inventory of what’s in the deep freeze to make the planning simpler. Pepperplate is the app I use for it, it also has recipe you put in with links to the planner, and a grocery list. Work making extra portions right into the plan and the nights we eat them too.

As for working out, well, I’ve never done anything more than the treadmill in the bedroom, ever. I try to work my exercise in with stuff I love to do anyway, like bike riding with hubby or grandkids, gardening, camping, hiking. Even housework is considered ‘exercise’ - if I spend 4 hours cleaning and vacuuming and moving furniture around that’s a pretty good workout. I think people have this idea that they have to go to a gym to truly ‘work out’ and it puts undue pressure on them.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Girl_power said:


> I would like to talk about The division of house chores again. I recently read that the top 4 things spouses argue over are:
> 1. The division of chores.
> 2. What “clean” is.
> 3. Sex.
> ...


If you can afford it hire a cleaning person. You will have a better marriage. Just saying.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

sokillme said:


> If you can afford it hire a cleaning person. You will have a better marriage. Just saying.




I’m divorced. BBut for round two I will definitely be hiring a cleaning lady.


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## FalCod (Dec 6, 2017)

My wife does all the cooking, cleaning, laundry, home maintenance, and shopping. My only chores are earning the money and managing the finances. It has worked well for us for decades. I'm about to retire, so we'll be redistributing tasks. My plan is to take over the laundry and the cleaning (excluding the kitchen). She can keep all the kitchen/food related tasks because she loves those. We'll split the maintenance stuff. I'll keep managing the finances.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

I want a stay at home wife!


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Girl_power said:


> I don’t know why but this is a really big thing for me, and a constant struggle. And I am just wondering if I am the only person that feels this way.
> 
> So right now, it’s just me in an apartment, so I obviously do everything and work a full time job with overtime. But it’s a constant struggle to have a balanced life... work, maintain home, eat healthy, exercise, have a social life.
> 
> ...


I always like to read threads and compare it to my former marriage. I did a lot of household chores from the beginning. I am a teacher, and I got more time off from work than my x wife, so it just made sense that I would do what I had time to do, which was a lot. 

I cooked, cleaned, and took a huge role in child care. I never understand when I hear guys say they only change a handful of diapers in their life. 

With that said, I never felt like my x appreciated it. I always felt it was taken for granted. Unlike you, even with all the stress off her, she didn’t seem to worry too much about being a sexy wife.


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

At the beginning of the marriage the chores were fairly split in the beginning. We kind of had an unwritten rule that if someone was doing chores, everyone was doing chores until everything was done. Over time it changed, particularly after children. Often coming home from work I was handed the baby and asked to make supper while she recovered from her day. When we moved into a house from an apartment, it got a bit worse. Saturday mornings were "man chore" time with a yard to mow, flowerbeds to weed, property boundaries to maintain, etc during which time she did laundry (IE spent 5 minutes an hour switching between washer and dryer) but as often as not she'd just go get coffee instead. When she went back to work part time laundry dropped off her chore list and I did it in the evenings waiting on her to get home. By this point my chore list looked like cook all the meals, cleanup after meals and cooking, grocery shopping, laundry, mow, weed the flower beds, take the kids to their activities, and move the furniture for vacuuming and rearranging the house. Hers was vacuum once a month and tell us when we had to rearrange the house (again, usually a couple times a year). Like Southbound I don't think it was ever really appreciated.

We didn't actually fight that much about it that much TBH. There were a couple times we probably should have like the times when I had cleaned up supper and she'd asked why I hadn't watched TV with her instead. The sarcasm that deserved was never used until she moved out. It needed doing. I was the only one that would do it. If I waited until she was done watching TV, I would be doing cleanup instead of getting the rest I needed later.

At least I never had the misconception that I couldn't handle a household on my own.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Hiner112 said:


> At the beginning of the marriage the chores were fairly split in the beginning. We kind of had an unwritten rule that if someone was doing chores, everyone was doing chores until everything was done. Over time it changed, particularly after children. Often coming home from work I was handed the baby and asked to make supper while she recovered from her day. When we moved into a house from an apartment, it got a bit worse. Saturday mornings were "man chore" time with a yard to mow, flowerbeds to weed, property boundaries to maintain, etc during which time she did laundry (IE spent 5 minutes an hour switching between washer and dryer) but as often as not she'd just go get coffee instead. When she went back to work part time laundry dropped off her chore list and I did it in the evenings waiting on her to get home. By this point my chore list looked like cook all the meals, cleanup after meals and cooking, grocery shopping, laundry, mow, weed the flower beds, take the kids to their activities, and move the furniture for vacuuming and rearranging the house. Hers was vacuum once a month and tell us when we had to rearrange the house (again, usually a couple times a year). Like Southbound I don't think it was ever really appreciated.
> 
> We didn't actually fight that much about it that much TBH. There were a couple times we probably should have like the times when I had cleaned up supper and she'd asked why I hadn't watched TV with her instead. The sarcasm that deserved was never used until she moved out. It needed doing. I was the only one that would do it. If I waited until she was done watching TV, I would be doing cleanup instead of getting the rest I needed later.
> 
> At least I never had the misconception that I couldn't handle a household on my own.


The issue with these debates is that were she to have written on here, she would probably describe managing the household single-handedly and how her husband could not survive on his own.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

southbound said:


> I always like to read threads and compare it to my former marriage. I did a lot of household chores from the beginning. I am a teacher, and I got more time off from work than my x wife, so it just made sense that I would do what I had time to do, which was a lot.
> 
> I cooked, cleaned, and took a huge role in child care. I never understand when I hear guys say they only change a handful of diapers in their life.
> 
> With that said, I never felt like my x appreciated it. I always felt it was taken for granted. Unlike you, even with all the stress off her, she didn’t seem to worry too much about being a sexy wife.


Perhaps, for her appreciation would mean that she was no longer the goodie in a realtionship. And there does seem to be huge amounts of pressure on women to be the noble martyr. But not playing the role of a stereotype, she did not get to play her stereotype.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Girl_power said:


> I don’t know why but this is a really big thing for me, and a constant struggle. And I am just wondering if I am the only person that feels this way.
> 
> So right now, it’s just me in an apartment, so I obviously do everything and work a full time job with overtime. But it’s a constant struggle to have a balanced life... work, maintain home, eat healthy, exercise, have a social life.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a situation where hiring someone to do things like cleaning your house would be a good idea.

A lot of people have the issue of how to split the chores.

It needs to be a balance between the number of hours each of you work at a job and the time available to take care of chores. It's both people's responsibility to do the chores.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Girl_power said:


> I would like to talk about The division of house chores again. I recently read that the top 4 things spouses argue over are:
> 1. The division of chores.
> 2. What “clean” is.
> 3. Sex.
> ...


I remember the four being:
- Children (including whether to have them)
- Money
- Sex
- Chores...

...so it does seem a recurring theme.

Typically, if you feel you are doing about 50%, then you are doing less. If you think you are doing about 60%, it is about 50%. 

From what I have read and experience, we have roles and want to live them out. If you can understand how people want to be seen and make them feel they are seen that way, it will help. Taking what they a woman does for granted suggests that you see them as a lowly maid who should be doing that stuff. Equally, playing the role of the oppressed housewife without doing housework is obnoxious ("emotional support" in the anglo-saxon sense in BS).

The main thing though is that your partner is actively contributing and that you appreciate that they are actively contributing.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288


I know this is an old article but I love to re read it every once in a while and I thought it was fitting here for some reason.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Girl_power said:


> Of course I think if you make a mess you should clean it up. But what about cooking every day, doing the dishes after cooking, dusting and cleaning the bathroom and toilets. Grocery shopping.
> 
> I think that cooking is a big one. It’s time consuming, and it takes planning.
> 
> I mean nobody likes to come home from work and have to cook a meal and clean after. But somebody has to do it.


When i was a stay at home mum I did the majority of it meaning my job didn't end at 5-6pm, but then he worked long hours earns well. Nonetheless I felt resentful cause everything was my job, cleaning, laundry, cooking, walking dogs, running kids to their extracurricular, paying bills, etc. When I worked, studied I also had the lion's share as he was travelling for work alot.
After some time I insisted on a live in housekeeper, now there is no issue. If at any point in time we no longer have a housekeeper, and I am still working full time, then I will subcontract out everything, I refuse to carry the full load while he is out playing his weekly golf, or having his 'business meetings' at the local bar. I have learnt my lesson.

It seems on this board, that there is fairness and equality in marriages here, but to be honest there are many more where the women in spite of working full time still bears most of the load. Research bears this out.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

aine said:


> When i was a stay at home mum I did the majority of it meaning my job didn't end at 5-6pm, but then he worked long hours earns well. Nonetheless I felt resentful cause everything was my job, cleaning, laundry, cooking, walking dogs, running kids to their extracurricular, paying bills, etc. When I worked, studied I also had the lion's share as he was travelling for work alot.
> 
> After some time I insisted on a live in housekeeper, now there is no issue. If at any point in time we no longer have a housekeeper, and I am still working full time, then I will subcontract out everything, I refuse to carry the full load while he is out playing his weekly golf, or having his 'business meetings' at the local bar. I have learnt my lesson.
> 
> ...




I am all about having a live in nanny or housekeeper. Maybe one day I will be able to afford it.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Girl_power said:


> I am all about having a live in nanny or housekeeper. Maybe one day I will be able to afford it.


*For as long as she doesn't become part of a ménage-a-trois!*


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

arbitrator said:


> *For as long as she doesn't become part of a ménage-a-tois!*




My live in would be a sexy man. He’s welcome to join the ménage-a-tois


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Girl_power said:


> My live in would be a sexy man. He’s welcome to join the ménage-a-tois


*I wouldn't ever dream of having another guy in my ménage-a-trois!

I love ménage-a-twos, more especially with the honorable woman whom I dearly love and feel that she loves me!*


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

Mr The Other said:


> The issue with these debates is that were she to have written on here, she would probably describe managing the household single-handedly and how her husband could not survive on his own.


Actually, she told me one of the reasons she decided to leave was because I didn't *need* her. :surprise: When she abdicated any responsibility for the house, I just took care of business. Her excuses varied and deflected my attention and concern to making sure she took her anxiety medicine and never got overwhelmed with anything if I could help it. The anxiety and stress for the last 5 years was mostly living with the hypocrisy of planning and preparing to leave while acting like she wanted to be in a relationship. Now that we're co-parents instead of spouses, she's more involved and co-operative.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Mr The Other said:


> southbound said:
> 
> 
> > I always like to read threads and compare it to my former marriage. I did a lot of household chores from the beginning. I am a teacher, and I got more time off from work than my x wife, so it just made sense that I would do what I had time to do, which was a lot.
> ...


I suppose that is a possibility. I never could make sense of it.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

arbitrator said:


> *For as long as she doesn't become part of a ménage-a-trois!*


The trick is to ensure she is very very unattractive :grin2:>


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

aine said:


> The trick is to ensure she is very very unattractive :grin2:>


*Unfortunately, just a good bottle of hootch along with a prolonged sexual drought can usually lay waste to the best of those objections!*


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