# Forgiveness



## ButterflyFree (Sep 28, 2011)

We are almost 2 years since D-Day, me being the WW. Anyways, we have both worked really hard on reconciling. We went to MC every week for 1.5 years and now go every two or three weeks. We both enjoy going because it keeps us focused on our marriage. Besides fixing the problems within our marriage, I have even dealt with the impact my family had on our marriage.

I understand as we approach & are in, the time frame my affair took place it will get difficult for him and he will have more triggers, etc. I will continue to be there and re-assure him that I have no intentions of being anywhere else but with him, even thought he may not want me since I was the one who caused the pain. I also continue, almost daily, that I'm well aware of my boundaries and will never cross them, specially now, knowing and feeling the pain I caused him and our marriage.

I know he will never trust me again, I get that, but I struggle with the fact that he hasn't be able to forgive me. I know there is no "normal" time frame in recovery, but can his struggle to forgive cause us to be in limbo. I feel as if we have hit a wall in recovery. Could this be why? Or am I being inpatient again?


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

I remember you from before. You got pretty beat up because you were painted as somebody that was only focusing on herself.

Regarding patience, it's really up to each individual. There is no set timeline. I've been told betrayed spouses typically take 2-5 years to recover. 

Is your husband lashing out at you, treating you poorly, or is he just sad and hurt still? There's a difference.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Our marriage counselor said there can't be a marriage without forgiveness. 

That doesn't mean you continually have to show him that he can trust you.

That doesn't mean that he will never trigger.

That doesn't mean he needs to forget the affair.

But at some point in time he does have to forgive if he wants the marriage to work. Otherwise he is either continually beating you up because of the affair or holding it inside and seething over it. Neither are conducive to making the marriage work.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Picture him, you, the marriage after he claims he forgives you.
What does it look like?


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

michzz said:


> The thing is, you can want forgiveness, you can ask for it, you can do whatever hoop jumping you deem proof of your worthiness of being forgiven. However, he does not have to forgive you.
> 
> There is no timeline you can wave at him that will impel him to forgive you.
> 
> ...


This is true, but at some point in time in a marriage the wayward spouse will be tired of the unending barrage. Even though it's their fault the affair happened, if they don't see an end to it they will move out of the marriage.

And I don't want to be rewarded/praised for living correctly. But I also don't want to be punished for the rest of my life for a mistake I made.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

if the marriage is to work he'll have to forgive someday. He doesn't have to forget but he does have to forgive if there is any hope of having a happy marriage again.

If he can't forgive you, it's going to eat him up and in a couple of years it'll all come out and by that time he might be done with the marriage.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Forgiveness does need to come at some time. If you're being completely open, honest and putting sincere effort into repairing the damage, it's fair to ask for forgiveness.

That said, I don't see that as forgetting or undoing the damage. I have no doubt my husband will forever remember this and check in/up on me.


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## ButterflyFree (Sep 28, 2011)

I'm not asking for his forgiveness expecting him to forget or get back the trust. I'm looking for his forgiveness in hopes the anger will dissipate a little. He continues to lash out, at times he makes me feel guilty for having a good day, for being happy. When he's angry, he refuses to talk. Yet other times when he triggers he can talk to me and then the issue doesn't eat at him. But for the most part he's quite and holds it all inside and the anger boils, he then lashes out, he feels better but I'm hurt.

MC has really worked for me...I've changed ways about me, my thinking, my interactions with my parents and more. But when we look at his actions his typically response is "I know, I'll try but it's hard". Everything is "hard" but I had to change to save our marriage. Why can't he change? 

Like Chris said....I don't want a reward....but I shouldn't have to be punished forever.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

ButterflyFree said:


> But for the most part he's quite and holds it all inside and the anger boils, he then lashes out, he feels better but I'm hurt.


If this is the case, one day it's going to boil over and he's going to be done with the marriage. It's slowly killing his love for you and the marriage. It's like a slow poison that starts out as a little scratch but slowly spreads until it infects the entire body and in the end there is nothing left to save.

BTW, he's trying to punish you to make him feel better, not the best way to make a marriage work. Either you or him will break eventually.


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

Forgiveness comes if/when it comes, period. 

Its not something that can be doled out. 

Its also very likely tied to trust. How can he forgive you, when he can't trust that you'll not repeat this? 

If he does, he comeasaround when he comes around and thats just all there is to say really.


I'm completely done with my cheating ex. Its near 4 yrs since. I've moved on completely, and repelled her attempt to insert herself back into my life years later. 

But for me personally, to forgive would be to accept what she did. But when I say accept I don't mean 'it happened' accept, more along the lines of 'what she did was acceptable' accept I can't get behind that at all.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

He has to forgive you for him personally whether he stays with you or not!


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## UnforgivableWife (Oct 25, 2012)

Gotta call bs here. Of course he wants to hurt you. Not in a malicious way, but in a defensive way. Someone hits you and your natural reaction is to hit back. And guess what? You deserve it. What did you honestly expect? That someday he would forget all about the fact another man had his hands on his wife?

The truth is he may never forgive you. He my stay with you, yes, but still may always hate you too for what you have done. That's part of the price you pay. 

As far as happiness? Hell, your right to happiness in this marriage disappeared the moment you turned to someone else. Was it the biggest mistake of your life - yes. Have you done everything your're supposed to do to try and "fix" that - yes. Does it really matter? Sadly no. You see the affair trumps everything else. Suck it up my fellow cheater.

I hope one day my husband can forgive me, but you know what? I would stay in hell with him for an eternity to try and show him just a little of the woman he thought he married.


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## cheater987 (Nov 5, 2012)

Well said, Unforgivable. Its been 13 years for me. My betrayed wife will never forgive or forget. And yes, I deserve it.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

The mere fact your husband ant filed means e is still fighting fir the marriage and that says a lot.

Btw did you expose your affair partners to their wives as part of proving your loyalty to your husband?


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## cheater987 (Nov 5, 2012)

Michzz, I made a solemn vow to my wife, before God and our respective families, that I would be loyal and faithful to her until death do us part. In my opinion, this vow is fundamental to marriage. I broke that vow.

It is simply cause and effect. Punishment always follows sin. Its not God’s punishment. It is the natural punishment that I brought upon myself because of my shameful conduct. My cheating is the proximate cause of the hell that I have been through for the last 13 years.

It has been a character building experience for me. I recall many times telling a tearful wife, “I will never leave you.” And I swear by God that I never will.


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

cheater987 said:


> Michzz, I made a solemn vow to my wife, before God and our respective families, that I would be loyal and faithful to her until death do us part. In my opinion, this vow is fundamental to marriage. I broke that vow.
> 
> It is simply cause and effect. Punishment always follows sin. Its not God’s punishment. It is the natural punishment that I brought upon myself because of my shameful conduct. My cheating is the proximate *cause of the hell that I have been through for the last 13 years.*
> 
> It has been a character building experience for me. I recall many times telling a tearful wife, “I will never leave you.” And I swear by God that I never will.


Have you been and still being punished for your cheating,even to this day??:scratchhead:


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## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

You want to talk about nasty triggers, I can preach to you there. 

You need to understand, your time table isn't worth anything to your BH. 

If my wife was wanting me to forgive within a certain time limit, or trust her after this time limit, I would have told her "The door is there. I'll call the lawyer tomorrow."

You need to go on his timetable. You can't expect him to just magically forgive. You can't expect doing the little things to gain back his trust. 

Trust can be difficult to build with a clean record. 
Your record is messy. Hell, messy doesn't even describe it. 

You are going to be on watch for a long time. And what do you expect. You are the one that brought it upon yourself. 

If you don't want to wait so long for him to forgive you, or trust you again, then divorce. Because the second you start expecting him to forgive in a time-table, then it won't be reconcilation, but just prolonging the inevitable.


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## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

ButterflyFree said:


> I'm not asking for his forgiveness expecting him to forget or get back the trust. I'm looking for his forgiveness in hopes the anger will dissipate a little. He continues to lash out, at times he makes me feel guilty for having a good day, for being happy. When he's angry, he refuses to talk. Yet other times when he triggers he can talk to me and then the issue doesn't eat at him. But for the most part he's quite and holds it all inside and the anger boils, he then lashes out, he feels better but I'm hurt.
> 
> MC has really worked for me...I've changed ways about me, my thinking, my interactions with my parents and more. But when we look at his actions his typically response is "I know, I'll try but it's hard". Everything is "hard" but I had to change to save our marriage. Why can't he change?
> 
> Like Chris said....I don't want a reward....but I shouldn't have to be punished forever.


So you want the affair.
Forgivenss for the affair.
Him to change for you.

And he gets what he should have gotten in the first place.

All he has is pain.

Actually he should just move on and that is the only time the pain will go away. The only time he will change.


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## cheater987 (Nov 5, 2012)

Jonesey: Yes. I am still being punished. Last night I was somewhat optimistic. Today, I'm back in the dumps. Thirteen years is a long, long time. For the last 13 years, I've been scrupulously faithful to my wife. I've been a good provider. But, nothing helps. Nothing atones for the PA that I had 13 years ago.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

I think there comes a point when the BS should forgive and stop punishing the WS or just divorce. What's the point of living in such misery?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

cheater987 said:


> Jonesey: Yes. I am still being punished. Last night I was somewhat optimistic. Today, I'm back in the dumps. Thirteen years is a long, long time. For the last 13 years, I've been scrupulously faithful to my wife. I've been a good provider. But, nothing helps. Nothing atones for the PA that I had 13 years ago.


Is your W still punishing you or are you punishing yourself?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

UnforgivableWife said:


> Gotta call bs here. Of course he wants to hurt you. Not in a malicious way, but in a defensive way. Someone hits you and your natural reaction is to hit back. And guess what? You deserve it. What did you honestly expect? That someday he would forget all about the fact another man had his hands on his wife?
> 
> The truth is he may never forgive you. He my stay with you, yes, but still may always hate you too for what you have done. That's part of the price you pay.
> 
> ...


Very powerful post and I think my wife may feel the same...she is so remorseful. Today is her birthday and I have been crazy nice to her since early this morning. She was singing as I dropped her off at work and SO happy. I know - its up to me here. In the back of my tortured mind I don't see this really working out. It is so sad but the wife I had before is dead. I love her but hate her too. I really have a deep feeling that I will leave her soon but just not quite there yet. 1 year out from DD. I have traded in my car, re-financed the house, lowered all my bills and looked at apts. It seems inevitable now that I will be leaving her without a serious change of heart. Oh, and my wife has been super wife lately. She is terrified of me leaving, like physically ill when it comes up. She knows what is happenning here. I swear I just feel like some people (like me) just are not wired to get over this kind of thing. Too painful.

I will add that getting with God has helped me quite a bit lately. He wants me happy and seriously no one should ever give anyone the power to allow another person to hurt them this badly. In honesty, I've hurt her worse over the years by ignoring her feelings too much. Sometimes it is best to just move on.


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

2asdf2 said:


> Does your God not demand forgiveness?


Yes, good point. I feel like I will forgive her completely in time...just not sure I want her anymore knowing what I know.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> Originally Posted by 2asdf2
> Does your God not demand forgiveness?
> 
> Reply by Shocker
> Yes, good point. I feel like I will forgive her completely in time...just not sure I want her anymore knowing what I know.



Did God forgive you?
*Does God not want you anymore knowing what He knows?*


> By Shocker
> In honesty, I've hurt her worse over the years by ignoring her feelings too much. Sometimes it is best to just move on.



*It is always easy to accept God’s forgiveness for our crap but rather hypocritical for us to cop out of true forgiveness and just “move on” when God asks us to forgive others.*


Shocker, it has only been one year; everyone tells me that it takes a minimum of 2-5 years. You sound like a good man that is up front. If you are going to pull out the God card then be prepared to live up to God’s ways


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