# The annoyance of ****ty looking women..



## karma*girl

I'm no prude, I don't dress overly conservative, at all. 
I think I usually look pretty good/attractive..in a classy way. 
Also, I totally understand that men (and even women) will steal a glance at someone else if they are attractive...or apparently if their 'parts' are half showing or hanging out.
That is no secret to me. I do know it's natural & tough to avoid. 

What frustrates me, as a woman/wife, is that husbands or men in general wouldn't want their own woman to dress this way in public, yet they feel free to direct their attention towards those willing to look cheap..cheap thrills are everywhere.

Do you know how damn frustrating that is? Here we are thinking we look hot today- then here comes Ms.T&A. 
It gives the impression that they are just as worthy of your attention as we are..like we are equal. With no effort at all they get your attention. When you are with your wife & this happens, it can be pretty embarrassing for us (your wives) and validating to the other woman, that yes, she is pulling your attention, regardless if your wife is there or not. That gives her the power in that moment. 
As stupid as this might sound, that woman, in that moment (most likely) feels sorry for the wife. I know this because I have been that woman that another husband or SO has stated at- with the wife on his arm. It's so, so disrespectful. 

Today, there were many women who were letting lots show due to a really warm day. 
I mean lots. It's crazy. 

They are obvious attention *****s & it drives me nuts when guys give that attention that they are seeking. 

It's very, very annoying, as a wife, to see your husband get drawn in by cheap looking women, when you invest a good amount of energy in yourself to look really good.
Yes, I know, no matter how good I look, he'll still look & it says nothing about how he feels about me. 
That logic doesn't help in that moment when he decides it's cool to be disrespectful toward me by eye-f'ing other women.

This is an obvious vent, so I appreciate those that 'listen.'
I just don't think some men realize what messages they are sending to their wives in these instances. 
It somehow just feels unfair to me. 
(Obviously, I am not the woman that points out eye-candy to my husband..I wish I was so this didn't bug me: )
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CantePe

It's not he woman that's the problem, it's your husband looking and you not firmly setting your boundaries with your husband. Nobody holds a gun to someone elses head to stare at women dressed in very little. It's a choice to look. It's a choice to not voice and enforce a personal boundary.


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## karma*girl

Good point. I have pointed out that I would prefer if he could at least keep himself under control while he's actually with me. 
He usually denies looking at all. To be clear, he doesn't ogle, but sometimes takes a second or third glance. 
I don't completely blame the women, but they do know what they're doing. 
I just wish guys wouldn't fall prey so easily.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JCD

Saying it is biological is a cop out, but it's an honest cop out. It is like our stomach grumbling if we haven't eaten all day but we smell a steak: a quick and pretty meaningless demonstration of want/need.

The other woman isn't dressing provocatively. She is jumping around with a big sign saying 'I'm available!"

My issue with all of this is when the woman in question does it simply to purposefully get that attention...so she can slap down any paramour for her own petty ego gratification.


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## karma*girl

That's what it does- feeds the stranger's ego & hurts his partner's, all at once. (Of course this won't bother some women at all..I am trying to learn how to get there..yet, I can't see it ever feeling right to me.)
The other woman is usually very aware of being checked out & the wife is very aware that she is aware, which makes it so awkward..meanwhile, the guy is acting like he got away with something: /

When you say she is advertising that she's available, does that spark even a happily married man's interest?

Isn't it worth it to honor your wife & be a stronger man, for her, than it is to indulge in cheap glances?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## omgitselaine

Guilty as charged here since i gotta admit that i am indeed one of these attention s**ts  though not much tatas or ass here but i ummmm try !?!?


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## Caribbean Man

Whilst I understand your frustrations , if your husband is disrespecting you in that way then you need to address it with him.
Blaming those women for how they dress publicly isn't really productive.
I live in a tropical country so they dress like that all the time, and it doesn't bother me.
I don't think they dress like that solely for *my* attention , there are lots of single guys out there , and yes , there _are_ men who like seeing their women dress that way.

I just look at it as a form of expression for them. They dress that way because they can.

Do it ogle ? 
No.
Do I look?
Sometimes yes, nod and smile.
But my wife also looks pretty good in a pair of shorts or skinny jeans , so it's not a problem for us. 
Other men look at her too.

It's like expensive cars. I like looking at them because they're nice to look at. 
Saw a young Muslim girl the other evening cruising in a customized S - Class Mercedes Benz with " Lambo" doors on the highway and the doors were up. It was a spectacle!
But even if I was that wealthy , I don't think I would want to own a car with that type do door.
It's a pretty cool type of car to look at, but not my type of car , for practical reasons.

There will always be pretty women dressing in those type of styles that are pleasing to the male eyes.
However they are not my type of woman.


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## heartsbeating

You likely already know this is more about your husband and the way he demonstrates his respect to you and your expectations of him - in context to your marriage.

The clothing of the women.. you said it was a really warm day which lends to less clothing. I wished I could wear less clothing! Not for the attention but for comfort. However I'd be at risk of blinding people with the florescent white glow of my legs, and/or becoming lobster-red before someone could even ask "Are you wearing sunscreen?"


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## karma*girl

True, some men do like their women to dress in minimal clothing in public. I guess they enjoy the confirmation that their woman is attractive to others as well. That's fine with me.

Also, I am not trying to blame the other women for what my issue is.

I am all for free expression of the self!

My issue is trying to deal with the double-edged sword of not wanting to look like a **** in public & at the same time, hoping my husband can try to avoid giving extra glances to those that are dressed ****ty.

Btw..when I say ****ty, I don't mean stomach showing or bathing suits, etc..if we were on a beach that would be totally different.
I'm talking about the very short shorts (booty hanging out the bottom) & shirts where you can clearly see too much, for public anyways..it's crazy. 
If I did that, I'd be asked nicely to change..and I'd agree, it's totally inappropriate for public attire. 

Yet, he is free to check out the other goods on display, no problem.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## karma*girl

Again, if I mention anything about him looking, he'll say that's crazy & that he wasn't at all..even if I clearly watched it happen. 
I guess that's his way of attempting to place blame on me instead of change his habits.

You're right, hearts, the bottom line is that it's all about the way he (dis)respects me..but it's hard for anything to change when he either doesn't realize he does it or he denies that he did at all. 
I wish he'd just say, "sorry, babe, you deserve better than that."..and then deliver.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## always_alone

Don't get mad at her, get mad at him. He's the one who is sending the message that any cute thing matters more than you.

Better still, don't get mad at all, get even. She won't get the opportunity to feel sorry for you if you're too busy noticing hot dude across the corner.

And h perhaps can have a taste of what it feels like to be put down by one's spouse.


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## JustHer

I here where you are coming from. I would get pissed too if my H did this. Actually he did in his younger days..... I let him know how rude it was. He finally grew up though.

As for free expression. I think there is a limit. People need to understand that just because they want to show it, doesn't mean others want to see it, or have it forced on them. As an example:

I was on a plane, the passengers were still loading. One lady was trying to stuff her bag in the upper baggage compartment but the suitcase was overstuffed and couldn't fit. She had real low cut pants on and a risqué shirt. The Isle was full of people behind her waiting to go by if you can imagine. Anyway, she put her bag on the floor of the isle in front of her and started taking stuff out. When she bent over her pants slid down showing the top strap of her g string and about 6 inches of the "floss" and her crack. It was embarrassing for everyone. The poor guy standing right behind her turned his head so he wouldn't have to be subjected to the sight, the guy in the seat right next to her looked away too. Not one person wanted to see what she was displaying.


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## karma*girl

Thank you for your understanding( :

Very true- everyone does not always want to see all that junk! 

The only thing I can think of as to why some over expose is to invite extra of attention..to stroke their ego & salve their insecurities.

Obviously, I have my own insecurities, however, letting my cheeks bounce around as I walk so every man around can imagine- well, whatever guys imagine when seeing that- would be ridiculous to me..I'd be so embarrassed of myself. 

So, while I might have some insecurities & know I have self-respect, which is the difference, I think between me & them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## karma*girl

...sorry about the typos! 😝
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unbelievable

Leave the poor trashy women alone. If God didn't intend for women to be looked at he wouldn't have given men eyes. Y'all aint got to take all the fun out of being a guy. Some trailer park princess shows off her hooties or legs and your man notices. No harm done. He'll be back at the salt mine Monday morning.


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## JCD

always_alone said:


> Don't get mad at her, get mad at him. *He's the one who is sending the message that any cute thing matters more than you.*
> Better still, don't get mad at all, get even. She won't get the opportunity to feel sorry for you if you're too busy noticing hot dude across the corner.
> 
> And h perhaps can have a taste of what it feels like to be put down by one's spouse.


How about, that is the message she decides to take. that barring her presence, he would be running off, tongue dragging on the ground as he goes after Tata. How insulting. Guess what? He sees LOTS of pretty women when you aren't around...and he still doesn't do more than a glance.


Here is what I am hearing: Some woman is showing off her secondary sexual characteristics in plain sight. He is *GLANCING* at her once or twice...and he is evil. She is evil.

Taking offense is a choice and don't pretend otherwise. If someone calls me a c*********, I can decide how much credence I want to take from it. There are a lot of women on this site who shrug at a glance. Others point out hotties to their husbands. They seem...secure in their relationships. *That is a choice they decide to make* Men look. If they are OFFENSIVELY and DISRESPECTFULLY looking, the women take offense. _As described_ that doesn't seem to be the case with this husband.

This is a glance. Not a leer. Not a come on. Not a smirk. Look...shiny thing...like a perfect dress which is WAY to expensive to afford. But you look and run a tiny little fantasy maybe. The only difference is that the dress you are wearing lacks feelings.

That is what it is to the man. I sympathize, but let's also have a bit of perspective here.

Have a talk. Don't play games. He should man up and say 'yeah, I saw her'. But when the reward for honesty is pain and accusations, well, I understand his attitude.


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## unbelievable

Don't buy a tiger and expect him to behave like a vegetarian.


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## SimplyAmorous

Caribbean Man said:


> Whilst I understand your frustrations , if your husband is disrespecting you in that way then you need to address it with him.
> *Blaming those women for how they dress publicly isn't really productive.*


 One thing is a given....we can't control others outside of ourselves/ our own family....how they act...what they say....or how they dress....it's a free society....some of the things we SEE -it does make it darn interesting [email protected]# 

The majority of people are going to be looking at the scanty clothed woman walking past, even old Grannie if her eye sight is good enough...it would be interesting to read the minds of those who give her an eye shot though....not everyone is thinking "







- I'd like to tap that!".... (many are thinking what *YOU* are thinking Karma*girl)... 

My Mother used to tell me when early married...she was friends with this neighbor lady ...who was very beautiful, she was always walking around in her bathing suit, showing it off (we're talking the 60's here).....My Mom was convinced she had a thing for my dad... but what that HOT neighbor lady didn't know was...how my father felt about women LIKE THAT....NOT HIS TYPE...don't even want to say what his thoughts were on here...so my Mom got a charge out of it -because she seen how hard she was trying to get his attention/ his glance... and my dad just utterly ignored her. 

My husband on the other hand, he'll look....I've talked about this with him...just getting his thoughts from another thread on oogling/what goes through a man's mind....when he sees that obvious eye candy walking past... in a matter of seconds...these are his thoughts..."I love my wife, STDS... I love my kids STD's"...and the fleeting fantasy is







... I thought that was pretty funny..I can live with that! 

I don't think it's realistic for a husband to not look at all... but if he is gawking...which giving a 2nd & 3rd look..yeah...this is PUSHING IT...this IS disrespectful to YOU... He can work on controlling this.. I mean really what is this 2nd & 3rd glance giving him ???... a few extra seconds... and it's taking an emotional hit on his wife.... His denying it -he is pushing you aside, trying to make excuses... of course this is hurtful... 

What all have you tried to get him to stop?? Telling him how it makes you feel....anything else? 



> *karma*girl said:* (Obviously, I am not the woman that points out eye-candy to my husband..I wish I was so this didn't bug me: )


 I am one of the wives who do this.. but ...this is because I have never felt like he was putting any eye candy before me...I notice men too...and he will even point them out... we are a little odd.


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## Sandfly

SimplyAmorous said:


> My Mother used to tell me when early married...she was friends with this neighbor lady ...who was very beautiful, she was always walking around in her bathing suit, she seems to like showing it off (we're talking the 60's here).....My Mom was convinced she had a thing for my dad... but what that HOT neighbor lady didn't know was...how my father felt about women LIKE THAT....NOT HIS TYPE...don't even want to say what his thoughts were on here...so my Mom got a charge out of it -because she seen how hard she was trying to get his attention/ his glance... and my dad just utterly ignored her.


And silliest thing of all, I don't know if you'll agree SA, is that for a lot of women, when they are ignored (but politely) it makes them even more desperate to get the ignorer's attention.

Your neighbour may have developed a full blown fantasy life over your dad. Your mum was right to be wary... good thing he had self-control, and your mum was secure enough to trust him.

Women like your neighbour love to cause drama and leave a mess behind them!


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## richie33

It's like when there is a accident on the highway....everyone slows down to take a look at the wreck.


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## SimplyAmorous

Sandfly said:


> And silliest thing of all, I don't know if you'll agree SA, is that for a lot of women, when they are ignored (but politely) it makes them even more desperate to get the ignorer's attention.
> 
> Your neighbour may have developed a full blown fantasy life over your dad. Your mum was right to be wary... good thing he had self-control, and your mum was secure enough to trust him.
> 
> Women like your neighbour love to cause drama and leave a mess behind them!


Actually my Mom wasn't weary at all.. she LIKED that neighbor lady ....she just knew how fruitless it was to bark up my dad's tree.. and yes, she DID get a charge out of it.. She's always shared openly about her experiences and I found these pretty funny myself.. That lady was married by the way...and her son was a year older than me, they moved shortly after... I was in the playpen in those years... but I've seen pictures & knew the son in school.

My Mom & dad's marriage was a train wreck heading off the tracks not many years later....her best friend (another neighbor NOT as sexy) did go after my dad..when it all started to fall apart...why --because my mom never loved him and wasn't giving him enough sex.. I don't look down on my dad.. he was in a pathetic spot and my Mom even told him to go to her.... she wanted out. IN the beginning -she knew she had him-all of him.. not sure she ever cared to be honest. They married too young & had very little in common....


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## SimplyAmorous

Sandfly said:


> *And silliest thing of all, I don't know if you'll agree SA, is that for a lot of women, when they are ignored (but politely) it makes them even more desperate to get the ignorer's attention*.


 I am sure this is true... but we are talking about seeking attention through the SKIN in this thread... seeking men to LUST after us to hook them.. is this the best way to catch a man?... dressing with our skirts up to our V-jay...or our boobs hanging out...I'd say it's the easiest way to catch a "USER".... personally. 

I go for the Good Guys....If dressing like a lady (taking care with our appearance, a dress, heels...not flaunting but beauty he may want to UNDRESS using his imagination)....if our personalities & charm is not enough to catch a man's attentions...... My thoughts are.... "Move along Honey".....wouldn't be into lowering myself like that...

I would find that* very demeaning *personally..trying to flaunt my scantly clad body....plus I'd come off as a pure "d**k tease" ...if I did catch him....as I'd want a whole lot more than an "eye f***ing"....leading to the bedroom. 

I need to feel a man is interested emotionally...seeking to know the mysteries of the whole woman...taking his time...only this would satisfy me.


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## Omego

JustHer said:


> I here where you are coming from. I would get pissed too if my H did this. Actually he did in his younger days..... I let him know how rude it was. He finally grew up though.
> 
> As for free expression. I think there is a limit. People need to understand that just because they want to show it, doesn't mean others want to see it, or have it forced on them. As an example:
> 
> I was on a plane, the passengers were still loading. One lady was trying to stuff her bag in the upper baggage compartment but the suitcase was overstuffed and couldn't fit. She had real low cut pants on and a risqué shirt. The Isle was full of people behind her waiting to go by if you can imagine. Anyway, she put her bag on the floor of the isle in front of her and started taking stuff out. When she bent over her pants slid down showing the top strap of her g string and about 6 inches of the "floss" and her crack. It was embarrassing for everyone. The poor guy standing right behind her turned his head so he wouldn't have to be subjected to the sight, the guy in the seat right next to her looked away too. Not one person wanted to see what she was displaying.


So true. I kind of feel sorry for these girls who think that it is sexy to show all. It's just not. 

I understand your rant. However, the glances from men towards attractive women, or scantily clad women, or even vulgarly dressed women, are, well... just automatic. It's normal that they are going to notice. 

As long as there are not double and triple takes it wouldn't bother me. I also notice attractive men.


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## omgitselaine

*Re: Re: The annoyance of ****ty looking women..*



Omego said:


> So true. I kind of feel sorry for these girls who think that it is sexy to show all. It's just not.
> 
> I understand your rant. However, the glances from men towards attractive women, or scantily clad women, or even vulgarly dressed women, are, well... just automatic. It's normal that they are going to notice.


From my experience keeping just the right amount of the " goods " hidden allows for imagination wink wink so showing everything is actually not very sexy at all imho 

Men are men and will take those glances and peeks ...... as long as its not done in a disrespectful way then its all good


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## always_alone

JCD said:


> This is a glance. Not a leer. Not a come on. Not a smirk. Look...shiny thing...


Then he shouldn't mind at all if she occupied her free time looking at the shiny boy things, right?

Better than focusing on the pity of other women because she isn't holding her man's attention, IMHO.


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## 6301

I saw a lady jogging at park while I was in the parking lot eating lunch and a guy wearing a pair of dark blue gym shorts and no top was jogging the other way and the woman turned and checked him out as he passed and she ran into a lady pushing a stroller with her kid in it and tripped over the stroller and landed flat on her face. I went over and asked if she was OK and she said she was but the Mom pushing the stroller told her that it wouldn't have happened if she kept her eyes front rather than checking out the guys ass. 

Women might not do it as much but I guess if it looks good, you look, just as long as you don't touch.


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## JustHer

We are never going to keep skank from roaming the streets, or for beautiful people to catch the eye of our partners. The issue is how our partners show their respect to us when someone like this crosses their paths.

I remember reading in the Venus and Mars books. The author wrote on how he handles it. When an attractive woman comes into view, walks up to them, what ever - he puts his arm around his wife. To him this tells her that "yes, I do see her, but you are the one I am with and want to be with". It also gives an unspoken communication to all looking, including the woman, that he respects his wife and is not looking - or going anywhere. 

What you don't do is keep taking 2nd and 3rd glances or trying to look down their top or up their shorty shorts. After all, their wife is a sure thing if he treats her right. I bet OP didn't feel like making love to her man after that episode.


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## treyvion

JCD said:


> Saying it is biological is a cop out, but it's an honest cop out. It is like our stomach grumbling if we haven't eaten all day but we smell a steak: a quick and pretty meaningless demonstration of want/need.
> 
> The other woman isn't dressing provocatively. She is jumping around with a big sign saying 'I'm available!"
> 
> My issue with all of this is when the woman in question does it simply to purposefully get that attention...so she can slap down any paramour for her own petty ego gratification.


Some of them do this just for attention, has nothing to do with sex for them. They like the attention whether they deny that's why their doing it or not, if they didn't they wouldn't do it.


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## NobodySpecial

I am going to offer some very unpopular advice. Lighten up. Better still, YOU oogle. Oogle good looking men. Point out good looking women to him. When a good looking guy walks by, an under tone yah I'd hit that.

Deflate the problem by making it a non problem.

A thought to consider.


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## JCD

always_alone said:


> Then he shouldn't mind at all if she occupied her free time looking at the shiny boy things, right?
> 
> Better than focusing on the pity of other women because she isn't holding her man's attention, IMHO.


I had a conversation with a girlfriend. In the course of a conversation, she let it be known that she did not consider a BJ as cheating if I got one.

Blink blink. There are all kinds of people in this world, but that was news to me.

I mentioned that I didn't hold that view. This surprised her. I then asked her if it was okay for me to get a BJ from someone else since she had no problem with this, just to see her answer.

"No, it's not. Because while it might be okay for ME that you get one, it is not okay to YOU that you get one. So you would be cheating in YOUR heart."

I could not argue with this logic.

So for Karma's husband, a glance at a pretty girl is meaningless to HIM according to HIS principles.

For her to glance at a pretty guy is a different matter TO HER principles.

So is she going to cleave to HER principles or not?

Now, this is not to say that there are SOME principles which SHOULD be applied whether they are mutually agreed upon or not. Infidelity. Stealing, Lying.

Does this rise to that level? Well, is Karma willing to get a divorce over this?

It's as good a metric as any.


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## always_alone

JCD said:


> For her to glance at a pretty guy is a different matter TO HER principles.
> 
> So is she going to cleave to HER principles or not?


Are we sure about this? 

In my case, for example, I was simply unclear about the rules of he relationship. I thought I was the one who captured his sexual interest, and that I should accord him the same respect. So I did.

Now that I know I'm just one body in a world of bodies, and not even the most interesting one at that, I don't really feel the need to privilege his either.

ETA: He is lying about it, and even denying he does it -- so your assumption that it is harmless or innocent on his part is also suspect. It all rather sounds like justification for a double-standard that suits him but not her.


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## Jellybeans

The original post sounds very angry to me. 

I see it like this: if someone has their tits or d!ck out, then it's going to be hard not to look. If your hubby has a problem with staring too much,t hen perhaps you should talk to him. There are always going to be women who dress "cheaply" and men who like to show off. If some dude is coming toward me without his shirt on, I am going to look. It's impossible not to.


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## JCD

always_alone said:


> Are we sure about this?
> 
> In my case, for example, I was simply unclear about the rules of he relationship. I thought I was the one who captured his sexual interest, and that I should accord him the same respect. So I did.
> 
> Now that I know I'm just one body in a world of bodies, and not even the most interesting one at that, I don't really feel the need to privilege his either.
> 
> ETA: He is lying about it, and even denying he does it -- so your assumption that it is harmless or innocent on his part is also suspect. It all rather sounds like justification for a double-standard that suits him but not her.


The RULES of the relationship is he offered you a sexual monopoly on his SERVICES. Love. Honor. Cleaving to no other.

Nothing about becoming a sexual obsessive who does not realize that any other woman exists.

If you want to write that into your personal vows, be my guest. Good luck with that.

As far as the lying thing:

Her: "Were you looking at that girl?"

Him: (First time) "Yeah. She's cute I guess."

Her: "Cheater cheater cheater! How DARE you look at ANYONE else! It will be a cold day in Hell before you get any sex from ME again!"*

See if he tells the truth the second time. 

When you put the price of honesty too high, all you are going to get are lies.

* Please note, I am not suggesting that this is how Karma Girl reacts. It is for demonstration purposes only.


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## Jellybeans

I'm just saying. It's hard NOT to notice.


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## Jellybeans

Also, I want to point out that the thread title of this post... is very demeaning toward women. Why do women have to be slvts? It seems to cut worse when it's said by a woman. Just saying. Maybe I am still on a high from International Women's Day which was yesterday. Help your fellow woman, er, or not. Slvt-shaming is the worst.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

I tend to just think that when anyone is with a partner and feeling somewhat suffocated, the sight of anyone who is clearly free and living their own life on their own terms without someone hanging about judging them all the time, is the attractive part, regardless of what he or she is wearing. It's not even gender specific. I don't think it just has to do with T&A, I think it represents something much bigger than that.


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## always_alone

JCD said:


> The RULES of the relationship is he offered you a sexual monopoly on his SERVICES. Love. Honor. Cleaving to no other.
> 
> Nothing about becoming a sexual obsessive who does not realize that any other woman exists.


This is not at all what he said. Just what you assume.

No one is saying that anyone should be a "sexual obsessive." Even the term itself indicates a complete unwillingness to consider how one is treating the one they supposedly love, IMHO.

Any man who lies to protect the peace should realize that at some point it could backfire on him. 

If you feel entitled to enjoy/pursue sexual arousal from others, your partner should be aware of that. And like it or not, you should realize that they too share that entitlement.


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## always_alone

Jellybeans said:


> I see it like this: if someone has their tits or d!ck out, then it's going to be hard not to look.


Half the world is naked on the internet, and there are half dressed people everywhere. If someone finds this upsetting, they're going to spend a lot of time upset.

To my mind, the issue is how one conducts oneself. Noticing is one thing, but if someone is feeling pitied by the oglees, then the ogler has probably gone too far.


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## Jellybeans

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> I don't think it just has to do with T&A, I think it represents something much bigger than that.


But the T&A is nice, too. Just look at John Hamm up there in my post. 



Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> I tend to just think that when anyone is with a partner and feeling somewhat suffocated, the sight of anyone who is clearly *free* and living their own life on their own terms without someone hanging about judging them all the time, is the attractive part


:iagree:


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## JCD

always_alone said:


> This is not at all what he said. Just what you assume.
> 
> No one is saying that anyone should be a "sexual obsessive." Even the term itself indicates a complete unwillingness to consider how one is treating the one they supposedly love, IMHO.
> 
> Any man who lies to protect the peace should realize that at some point it could backfire on him.
> 
> If you feel entitled to enjoy/pursue sexual arousal from others, your partner should be aware of that. And like it or not, you should realize that they too share that entitlement.


Sorry...the marriage vows are pretty clear.

You stated that a man should ONLY be sexually interested in you when you marry. No one else. Avert the eyes, buddy.

And I am pretty amused that a GLANCE is 'pursuing sexual arousal'. I am not even getting a stiffy from a down the shirt look. I don't have time.

I am saying I am entitled to SEE! Just like she is. You seem to think this is some incredibly ego crippling thing. I am not the most handsome guy in the world. I am okay with this fact. I will demand respect, and monogamy. That is all I can *reasonably* expect. And not some version of hypersensitive respect where one isn't allowed to see the opposite gender.

And if she starts drooling, panting and obviously sexually fantasizing about a man in front of me, I will call her just as I'd expect a woman to call a MAN on such rude behavior.

But once again, IT'S...A...GLANCE.

As far as the honesty thing: sure it could back fire. The truth already backfired on him ONCE however, so now he's trying something new.

Read my last line again: When you put the price of honesty too high, all you are going to get are lies.

I lived with some STAUNCH Christians and any deviation from 'God's Word' (which was suspiciously like step mom's opinion...just saying) got me STRINGENTLY penalized for a LONG TIME.

Sort of like Stalinism. You set the penalties too high, and no one respects the law or the government. They just see it as something to get around. Is that REALLY how Karma Girl wants to be seen?


----------



## Omego

It's not showing sexual interest to glance. Like many have said, it's a question of discretion. if the guy is walking into poles and tripping over himself and panting like a dog, yes, that's disrespectful to the wife.

I agree with JCD's comment on honesty. I don't recall the exact details of the incident described by Karma girl, but if I were to glance at a hot-looking guy, and I got excessively berated for it, I would just pretend not to notice in the future.


----------



## Deejo

I don't find ****ty looking women annoying at all.

I support their decision to express themselves in an empowered manner they see fit.

If I gaze their way, I'm simply joining them in a brief telepathic acknowledgment of their independence, forward thinking, and that butt that won't quit.

No harm intended towards anyone. It's more of a celebration really.


----------



## always_alone

JCD said:


> You stated that a man should ONLY be sexually interested in you when you marry. No one else. Avert the eyes, buddy.


No, I said I *thought* I was the only one he was sexually interested in because *this is what he told me*. Like karmagirl's h, he pretended that he didn't look.

Then I learned that I am just one body is a sea of bodies, and he felt entitled to "celebrate" all these others bodies. So why shouldn't I feel that same entitlement!

You keep diminishing his accountability by saying that it's just one glance. But it isn't. Apparently he keeps looking back, and enough for her to feel as though the one he's looking at is pitying her.

If that isn't about respect, I don't know what is.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Glancing at women is no big deal. Ogling in front of your so is just rude, but you're not handling it well. You're giving him all the power here. My hb glances like any guy and that's fine, but if he started ogling in front of me here's what would happen:
1. I wouldn't say a word, I'd just make his day less happy then it could've been. He's a very smary man and would know what's going on.
2. I would start ogling men in front of him.
3. I would let a little more hang out to make sure I get ogled in front of him. I'm not in my 20's anymore but my body is still hard enough to get plenty of ogles. It's not so much fun when it's your wife or daughter.

Fortunately he has the good taste to be discrete, as do I.
Some may not agree with me and that's ok, but it works for us.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cosmos

I think this all boils down to the ignorance of the OP's H (and some other men) at what actually transpires when they openly _ogle_ other women _in front of_ their partners...

It is often discounted as jealousy/insecurity on behalf of the ogler's partner, but in reality the ogler has (unwittingly) placed her in competition with the oglee, and both women know this... It might_ sound_ petty, but most women know that there are _some _women who actually get off on these sort of 'transactions,' and it makes them feel hurt and disrespected by their partners. Rather like a man might if his partner set him up to arm wrestle every good looking guy she looks at.


----------



## JCD

always_alone said:


> No, I said I *thought* I was the only one he was sexually interested in because *this is what he told me*. Like karmagirl's h, he pretended that he didn't look.


How high a price did he pay for being honest the first time?



> Then I learned that I am just one body is a sea of bodies, and he felt entitled to "celebrate" all these others bodies. So why shouldn't I feel that same entitlement!


You should.



> You keep diminishing his accountability by saying that it's just one glance. But it isn't. Apparently he keeps looking back, and enough for her to feel as though the one he's looking at is pitying her.
> 
> If that isn't about respect, I don't know what is.



Let's get it from the horse's mouth

Karma Girl said



> He usually denies looking at all. *To be clear, he doesn't ogle,* but sometimes takes a second or third glance.


Please excuse me. Sometimes he glances TWICE.

Oh the humanity!


----------



## JCD

Cosmos said:


> I think this all boils down to the ignorance of the OP's H (and some other men) at what actually transpires when they openly _ogle_ other women _in front of_ their partners...
> 
> It is often discounted as jealousy/insecurity on behalf of the ogler's partner, but in reality the ogler has (unwittingly) placed her in competition with the oglee, and both women know this... It might_ sound_ petty, but most women know that there are _some _women who actually get off on these sort of 'transactions,' and it makes them feel hurt and disrespected by their partners. Rather like a man might if his partner set him up to arm wrestle every good looking guy she looks at.



So looking at a woman is the same as setting up a pseudo sexual physical competition with another man?

Really?


----------



## Caribbean Man

Deejo said:


> I don't find ****ty looking women annoying at all.
> 
> I support their decision to express themselves in an empowered manner they see fit.
> 
> If I gaze their way, I'm simply joining them in a brief telepathic acknowledgment of their independence, forward thinking, and that butt that won't quit.
> 
> *No harm intended towards anyone. It's more of a celebration really.*


:iagree:

Exactly.
I won't even describe them as ****ty either.
Women and men are free to dress how they want.

I see it as them celebrating their sexuality in a tame way. All the while they're probably getting some sort of thrill from pushing the boundaries a bit.

What I've noticed is that it's like a stage young women go through and somewhere in their late 30's and 40's they sometimes tend to get a little more sophisticated , and less daring.


----------



## richie33

So the OP notices all these " ****ty " dressed women.....so does the boyfriend / husband....what's the difference?


----------



## tornado

I guess women never ogle the hollywood hunks either. Magic Mike was made for men to enjoy. Whatever


----------



## Married but Happy

I think most of those women you're putting down have plenty of self respect, but just have fewer hang-ups and insecurities, OP.


----------



## Cosmos

JCD said:


> So looking at a woman is the same as setting up a pseudo sexual physical competition with another man?
> 
> Really?



No.  I didn't say that. I was talking about ogling. This mightn't be what the OP is talking about, but it was I was talking about. 

We all look at members of the opposite sex. There's a difference between a glance and ogling.


----------



## JCD

Cosmos said:


> No.  I didn't say that. I was talking about ogling. This mightn't be what the OP is talking about, but it was I was talking about.
> 
> We all look at members of the opposite sex. There's a difference between a glance and ogling.


Okay. Ogling. Which is LOOKING.

I still think the comparison is invalid because it's physical.

I would say if she started disparaging his ability to provide or talk about another guys muscle tone.


And that is a classic woman's line (at least according to old movies) "And to think I married _you..._"with all the implications that brings.

Women DO bring up how much nicer X's stuff than hers. But somehow that isn't the same?


----------



## Cosmos

JCD said:


> Okay. Ogling. Which is LOOKING.


No, it isn't the same. To glance or look is _entirely _different to ogling:-

_*Ogling*

Stare at in a lecherous manner. "He was ogling her breasts"

Synonyms: Leer at, stare at, gaze at, eye, make eyes at, make sheep's eyes at;

Informal: Eye up, give someone the glad eye, give someone a/the once-over, lech after/over, undress with one's eyes, give someone the come-on;

Informal: Gawp at, gawk at;

Informal: Perv on. "He'd been ogling her ever since she'd entered the room"_


----------



## richie33

So the OP staring at these women and judging them by what they wear is what? I guess ogling.


----------



## lifeistooshort

tornado said:


> I guess women never ogle the hollywood hunks either. Magic Mike was made for men to enjoy. Whatever



Please, men have had t&a in movies since they started being made and now you begrudge us Magic Mike? 
Just teasing....I haven't even seen Magic Mike.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Omego

Married but Happy said:


> I think most of those women you're putting down have plenty of self respect, but just have fewer hang-ups and insecurities, OP.


I dunno. It's difficult to say. The girls wearing shorts with flesh hanging out, or g strings which you can see, seem like fashion victims to me. They saw some star wearing it on the internet so it must be cool......


----------



## Married but Happy

Omego said:


> I dunno. It's difficult to say. The girls wearing shorts with flesh hanging out, or g strings which you can see, seem like fashion victims to me. They saw some star wearing it on the internet so it must be cool......


Yes, let's exclude the fashion victims and the fashion terrorists - there are limits to taste, but I'm not at all conservative about that fuzzy line.


----------



## always_alone

JCD said:


> How high a price did he pay for being honest the first time?


Oh, the assumptions you make. He lied to me the first time. And like the OP's h, that was the story -- he pretended that he doesn't look, played the nice guy, and told me that He didn't want me staring at any man's a$$es.

But actions speak louder than words, and it was total bait and switch, plus double standard. And now he admits that, yes he is turned on and wants to f*ck them. 

And you're still ignoring the part where she said that the oglees are pitying her. That to me spells more than innocent glance.


----------



## always_alone

Cosmos said:


> No, it isn't the same. To glance or look is _entirely _different to ogling:-


I think some guys really do just glance,.and aren't really all that interested beyond simple appreciation. To them a woman complaining probably seems like much ado about nothing.

And some guys just pretend it's nothing to justify what they know to be bad behaviour, and what they'd be the first to scream if their wife did something similar to them.


----------



## Cosmos

always_alone said:


> I think some guys really do just glance,.and aren't really all that interested beyond simple appreciation. To them a woman complaining probably seems like much ado about nothing.
> 
> And some guys just pretend it's nothing to justify what they know to be bad behaviour, and what they'd be the first to scream if their wife did something similar to them.


:iagree:

It's odd, but I still have a very vivid memory of when I was young and staying at an hotel with my, then, H for a long weekend. There was a middle-aged / late middle-aged couple sitting at a table across from ours, and at each and every meal the man just sat and stared at me. I remember he and his W saying very little to one another during those awkward meals, but I vividly remember the older woman's obvious discomfort. She would glance at her H, then at me and I could almost see her squirming with embarrassment. In the end, I remember having had enough. I stood up and very pointedly asked my H to swap seats with me so I'd have my back turned to El Creepo and his poor, red-faced wife.


----------



## over20

JCD said:


> Saying it is biological is a cop out, but it's an honest cop out. It is like our stomach grumbling if we haven't eaten all day but we smell a steak: a quick and pretty meaningless demonstration of want/need.
> 
> The other woman isn't dressing provocatively. She is jumping around with a big sign saying 'I'm available!"
> 
> My issue with all of this is when the woman in question does it simply to purposefully get that attention...so she can slap down any paramour for her own petty ego gratification.




It is not a biological cop out for a man to ogle, it is very innate/primal. One cannot compare it to a steak with a stomach grumbling. It is part of a man's being that he is continually looking for a younger mate. I actually am very proud and astonished how MANY men, my own especially, can actually control themselves amidst all the very pretty women out there, while they are committed to their wives and children. That must be very difficult for them. I know my own Dh works in a hospital with young women all around him. Dh and I talk A LOT about our temptations and triggers. My hubby has learned how to "bounce his eyes" but also admits he has a lot of weak moments where it won't work. I love him and don't judge him. I am bad also. My triggers are more emotional, men that connect with me emotionally. I think the more a couple can talk about sexual temptation "outside the bedroom" the better.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

In general I'd say that I don't ogle. Or, more accurately, it would take a lot to get me to ogle. skanky dress? Probably wouldn't do it. Want to hear something funny? I see about 300 clients in person per year. Probably something like 80% are either a woman or a male/female couple. Only twice in 15 years have I been "awe struck". The latest happened a couple years ago, a new client who I think must have Icelandic ancestry. No revealing clothing, just a unique look that I had to keep telling myself not to stare at.

I guess what I'm getting at is I don't really think there's some kind of biological imperative. That big "I'm available" sign looks to me like an "I'm needy" sign.


----------



## Sandfly

always_alone said:


> To them a woman complaining probably seems like much ado about nothing.


95% of the time, yeah. 

But because we like women, and enjoy their company when they're not moaning, we indulge them in this flaw.


----------



## tornado

*Re: Re: The annoyance of ****ty looking women..*



lifeistooshort said:


> Please, men have had t&a in movies since they started being made and now you begrudge us Magic Mike?
> Just teasing....I haven't even seen Magic Mike.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't care one way or the other. I went with my wife and her friend to watch Magic Mike. Im just saying most everybody ogles some, men and women. I got ogled yesterday trying to work it doesn't bother me. If I see a attractive women I usually look. If I see a real pretty smile I admire that too.


----------



## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

No movies for the man with the roving eye.
Unless wife censors out all of the parts that show anything attractive.
If you want a man who is not looking, and women who cannot be looked at, I can suggest some countries for you...
Or, simply poke the guy's eyes out.


----------



## Wolf1974

I like to look but not necessarily ogle. ****ty women don't impress me though. But a woman with a great body dressed nice is going to get a look.


----------



## JCD

always_alone said:


> Oh, the assumptions you make. He lied to me the first time. And like the OP's h, that was the story -- he pretended that he doesn't look, played the nice guy, and told me that He didn't want me staring at any man's a$$es.
> 
> But actions speak louder than words, and it was total bait and switch, plus double standard. And now he admits that, yes he is turned on and wants to f*ck them.
> 
> And you're still ignoring the part where she said that the oglees are pitying her. That to me spells more than innocent glance.


She said GLANCES. She specifically EXCLUDED ogling. This is the second time I've said it. It's the third time you have read it.

You can't seem to leave this word alone because admitting it's a couple of glances really cuts the legs out from under your argument. For it to be ANY sort of disrespect, it has to be an ogle. He isn't. Please do not say this again.

Now, she can be offended by 'a couple of glances', but honestly that's on her.

I am editing this post very vigorously.

I get that women have this definition of True Love that includes 'total devotion' to the other spouse. If Wesley really really loves Buttercup, he is not going to even glance at some pirate floozy.

And while it is a suitable thing for cheesy Hollywood movies, Lifetime, and bodice rippers, real life, alas, is not so perfect as all that. 

It is not more realistic than my 'defining' a woman's 'true love' for me to include spending all her time seeing to my every insignificant need and want and, upon my demise, throwing herself on my funeral pyre out of emotional loss and devastation.

If you are using the standard of 'he barely glances at any other women' I am afraid you are setting yourself up for a world of disappointment. That is okay, but recall it is *your* definition, which may or may not actually mesh with reality or basic male biology or psychology.

The best we can hope for is to moderate one another's ACTIONS, not THOUGHTS. And in this case, I think ogling is an action of disrespect.

A couple of glances? Hell, a woman promising someone my time to some project is a MUCH more egregious sin than a glance which MAY result in a 3 second fantasy in my mind if that.


----------



## JCD

Cosmos said:


> :iagree:
> 
> It's odd, but I still have a very vivid memory of when I was young and staying at an hotel with my, then, H for a long weekend. There was a middle-aged / late middle-aged couple sitting at a table across from ours, and at each and every meal the man just sat and stared at me. I remember he and his W saying very little to one another during those awkward meals, but I vividly remember the older woman's obvious discomfort. She would glance at her H, then at me and I could almost see her squirming with embarrassment. In the end, I remember having had enough. I stood up and very pointedly asked my H to swap seats with me so I'd have my back turned to El Creepo and his poor, red-faced wife.



I think this is rude to anyone but it really isn't what we are talking about in regards to the original post.


----------



## Cosmos

JCD said:


> I think this is rude to anyone but it really isn't what we are talking about in regards to the original post.


Neither were your recent (now edited) sarcastic comments to AA in any way related to the OP...

Attend to your own garden, JCD, before pointing over the fence at mine.


----------



## JCD

Cosmos said:


> Neither were your recent sarcastic comments to AA in any way related to the OP...
> 
> Attend to your own garden, JCD, before pointing over the fence at mine.


I did not mean that in a snarky way.

And I have amended at least one of my comments.


----------



## RClawson

Years ago when I attended my oldest daughters first Back to School night in High School I was shocked. I was quite confident that I had my dates mixed up and was actually at "Dress ****ier than your Daughter Night". I was really unimpressed and I think I began to look at women differently that night.

I do notice women but they have to be put together and confident and smiling. That is what I notice. Provocative just does not do it for me any longer.


----------



## over20

That is so refreshing....and you sound very wise....

:iagree::iagree:


----------



## over20

WorkingOnMe said:


> In general I'd say that I don't ogle. Or, more accurately, it would take a lot to get me to ogle. skanky dress? Probably wouldn't do it. Want to hear something funny? I see about 300 clients in person per year. Probably something like 80% are either a woman or a male/female couple. Only twice in 15 years have I been "awe struck". The latest happened a couple years ago, a new client who I think must have Icelandic ancestry. No revealing clothing, just a unique look that I had to keep telling myself not to stare at.
> 
> I guess what I'm getting at is I don't really think there's some kind of biological imperative. That big "I'm available" sign looks to me like an "I'm needy" sign.



It is so unpredictable...........great example!


----------



## gumtree

It is a scorching summer here. I dress lightly for comfort and because I am confident in my body. Not indicate I am available for sex.

One day in the supermarket carpark I asked my boyfriend if I was dressed a bit too revealingly and he said "no babe, I laughed because I saw a young guy with his eyes on stalks as you walked down the aisle. When he saw me he got embarrassed. I just chuckled at him, who could blame him? I was proud of you. But that creep at the checkouts, that was so disrespectful the way he was staring with me and his wife right there. Awkward." 

So he clearly knows the difference between an appreciative look and a dirty leer that makes people uncomfortable. FWIW he does look at attractive women when we are out together, but I've never felt the need to call him on it. Heck even I can appreciate and admire fine female flesh on display! He doesn't make extended eye contact, indicate he's available, or give himself whiplash as they go past. I can live with that...I'm confident in myself to know she'll likely be forgotten soon, I rock his world and its me he's going home with...


----------



## JCD

Everyone, please accept my apology.

I was a bit intemperate to always alone. While I feel my opinions on this matter are correct, they could have been a lot more polite in how they were expressed.


----------



## Caribbean Man

gumtree said:


> It is a scorching summer here. I dress lightly for comfort and because I am confident in my body. Not indicate I am available for sex.
> 
> One day in the supermarket carpark I asked my boyfriend if I was dressed a bit too revealingly and he said "no babe, I laughed because I saw a young guy with his eyes on stalks as you walked down the aisle. When he saw me he got embarrassed. I just chuckled at him, who could blame him? I was proud of you. But that creep at the checkouts, that was so disrespectful the way he was staring with me and his wife right there. Awkward."
> 
> So he clearly knows the difference between an appreciative look and a dirty leer that makes people uncomfortable. FWIW he does look at attractive women when we are out together, but I've never felt the need to call him on it. Heck even I can appreciate and admire fine female flesh on display! He doesn't make extended eye contact, indicate he's available, or give himself whiplash as they go past. I can live with that...I'm confident in myself to know she'll likely be forgotten soon, I rock his world and its me he's going home with...


You said it so much better than I could say it! 

There is a difference between an appreciative look from a man and a creepy leer.
I think some in this thread are mixing up the two.

And I think by now most men are accustomed to women dressing provocatively at times. I see it as a way they express their beauty and sexuality. That too is part of them. sometimes we try to separate it, but it is what makes them unique.

It always has .

Women can dress provocatively , men can't.


----------



## JCD

Caribbean Man said:


> Women can dress provocatively , men can't.



Men are visual creatures. Women aren't.

If women were, lesbians would dress up as well as gay men do.


And I think you are mistaking things. Menswear tends to be about status. Women are status and fashion conscious. This is not a coincidence. 

So it's 'provocative' but not in the 'beefcake' way that women's wear which displays 'cheesecake'.

YOU don't find menswear provocative...but you aren't a woman or gay, hence you are not the target audience.


----------



## samyeagar

The funniest thing happened the other day...my STBW and I were talking along the lines of this very subject, and she was utterly perplexed at the fact that in her perception, I simply did not notice other women AT ALL...never say anything, never look, never anything. She wished in a way that I would show some notice, some reaction, certainly not ogling, but something...So here I am having to consciously try and be obvious in noticing so she can feel all is right with the world again...


----------



## Jellybeans

JCD said:


> If women were, lesbians would dress up as well as gay men do.


Hey now. There are some hot lesbians at my gym.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

I still can't get over the annoyance being expressed over how other women dress rather than directing that annoyance where it should be directed.

I guess it all goes back to how hateful women are toward each other.

the annoyance of ****ty looking women. smh.


----------



## Jellybeans

ScarletBegonias said:


> I still can't get over the annoyance being expressed over how other women dress rather than directing that annoyance where it should be directed.
> 
> I guess it all goes back to how hateful women are toward each other.
> 
> the annoyance of ****ty looking women. smh.


Exactly. OP seems to be angry at the women. And it seems OP hasn't been back lately.



JCD said:


> Hot to a woman or hot to a man?


Hot to me and I am a woman. There are a ton of hot lesbians. There a bunch of lipstick lesbians at my gym.


----------



## Cosmos

gumtree said:


> So he clearly knows the difference between an appreciative look and a dirty leer that makes people uncomfortable. FWIW he does look at attractive women when we are out together, but I've never felt the need to call him on it. Heck even I can appreciate and admire fine female flesh on display! He doesn't make extended eye contact, indicate he's available, or give himself whiplash as they go past. I can live with that...I'm confident in myself to know she'll likely be forgotten soon, I rock his world and its me he's going home with...


And anyone who's been on the receiving end of either knows the difference very well!


----------



## LongWalk

Why do married women dress up to be beautiful and sexy when they go out with their husbands? Why don't they wear sack cloth dresses?

Women who dress too revealingly have to do more to attract men
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jellybeans

LongWalk said:


> Why do married women dress up to be beautiful and sexy when they go out with their husbands? Why don't wear sack cloth dresses?


Because they are "slvts," didn't you know?


----------



## always_alone

Caribbean Man said:


> Women can dress provocatively , men can't.


The Man of Fashion: Pea**** Males and Perfect Gentlemen: Colin McDowell: 9780500017975: Amazon.com: Books


----------



## samyeagar

My STBW and I were looking through the Victoria's Secret swim suits, and she came across a few that she thought were cute, and asked if I'd ever let her go out in public in them, and I said no. The ensuing discussion was very interesting, because her reaction was very different than I thought it would be. First off, would I ever 'forbid' her from wearing something? Of course not, but there are things I would be more comfortable with than others. The thing is, she was actually glad that I said No because she enjoyed the bit of protectiveness, staking my claim if you will. She also knew that I would not stop her either, so it was completely her choice.


----------



## always_alone

JCD said:


> Men are visual creatures. Women aren't.




My theory is that men just tell themselves this because they want to pretend their women never notice other men, or fantasize about them.


----------



## tornado

Dressing provocative is determined by the dresser IMO. One person my consider it to be provocative, another my consider it looking nice. Ad long as your within the legal limits what does it matter? A person shouldn't have to dress a certain way so people don't ogle them, that's not their responsibility.


----------



## Cosmos

always_alone said:


> My theory is that men just tell themselves this because they want to pretend their women never notice other men, or fantasize about them.


:iagree:

We're just a little better at hiding it


----------



## Jellybeans

Haha. Women are a LOT less obvious at checking out men than men are. :rofl:

But have any of you ladies ever gotten "caught" checking out a dude's package? I have and it was EMBARRASSING. LOL


----------



## youkiddingme

Women that dress ****ty.....it annoys all of us men!!!! That's why we stare at them!!!!


----------



## always_alone

FrenchFry said:


> Biker's spandex at eye level while sitting down. Holy eyeful batman!


Ultra shorty shorts, no underwear. Gaping for all to gape.

But no one noticed that I noticed.


----------



## lifeistooshort

always_alone said:


> My theory is that men just tell themselves this because they want to pretend their women never notice other men, or fantasize about them.



Mine is that they tell themselves this in order to justify why they're entitled to a 9 or 10 when they're a 4.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

When I was kid there was a period of time when it was fashionable to go braless. That trend did not last, probably because clothing manufacturers and fashion designers did not like losing a market. But those pokies back then, man did they drive me crazy as young teen. Did those women feel slvtty? I think they justified as part of the feminist movement and hippy fashion while they ate up the attention.

Once when I was a senior in high school I found myself doing math homework with Lisa M, the most beautiful girl in the school. She had no bra was wearing a loose shirt. She must have known I was staring. If my brain is a hard disk, this image of blond and pink cannot be erased.

At family summer camp for alumini of the University of M, one year there was counselor from M State U, the less prestigious institution. She was incredibly hot. How old was I? Thirteen or 14, perhaps. She came into the dining hall one night extremely short cut off jean shorts. Thick reddish blond pubic hair was sticking out the sides.

I don't know if all these women were slvtty or just natural with their charms.


----------



## Faithful Wife

samyeagar said:


> My STBW and I were looking through the Victoria's Secret swim suits, and she came across a few that she thought were cute, and asked if I'd ever let her go out in public in them, and I said no. The ensuing discussion was very interesting, because her reaction was very different than I thought it would be. First off, would I ever 'forbid' her from wearing something? Of course not, but there are things I would be more comfortable with than others. The thing is, she was actually glad that I said No because she enjoyed the bit of protectiveness, staking my claim if you will. She also knew that I would not stop her either, so it was completely her choice.


I love it when my H forbids me to wear something. It makes me feel protected. Sometimes he will throw me down on the bed and hold me down and tell me I'm a sl*t just for asking to wear something sl*tty...ha! (which is all just fun and games for us)

I used to dress too provocatively. I honestly enjoyed it. (I did not enjoy it when a clearly married/attached man would be leering at me, though...like Cosmos's example).

When I met my H, he said "no way" to my old wardrobe. So I donated everything, except a few really bad pieces...those went to the sex closet.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Longwalk...I recently posted this pic on another thread...you reminded me of this again with your post....


----------



## youkiddingme

Ladies......the problem is......we love to look at women that are dressed this way. I mean....it is just the truth. Your man might tell you different....but don't believe him. We cannot help it.


----------



## learning to love myself

I get how you feel, I used to get mad at my DH

In more recent years my husband has pointed out that I get those looks and I guess I never realized it. 

I have gotten many a dirty look from wife's and there is nothing I can do about it. I'm very large busted, if I wear regular t-shirt or tank it looks like I work at hooters. 

I will dress a little skimpy for my husband if he asks me to and my skimpy is nothing like I see other woman wear and yet I still get looks.


----------



## Deejo

*Re: Re: The annoyance of ****ty looking women..*



FrenchFry said:


> Biker's spandex at eye level while sitting down. Holy eyeful batman!


This is what I wear grocery shopping. I'm mortified by the attention I get when I'm bending and stretching to reach items.


----------



## HuggyBear

I couldn't stomach to read all of this thread, but I think I can sum it all up for the (American?) Taliban...

"Haters are gonna hate."


----------



## Pandakiss

Hopefully this fits with the topic/subject. 

Yesterday it was about 70 and sunny. I was so happy for a nice day to wear my new dress and heels. My dress is very nice, knee length, not low cut not with the back out, not tight, a nice A line skirt. Any ways, we decided to go to our usual hang out. 

Some random guy was sitting at a near by table. He saw me and just stared. Didn't move or blink. I didn't give 2 sh!ts, I was to busy downing coffee and red bull to kill a migraine. Hubby and I talked for a minute then both of us started playing our video games. After about 10 or so minutes the guy stopped staring just took long glances. He eventually left. Other people showed up we knew chatted a bit. Hubby said he wanted to go buy some tech thingy. 

Now this is funny....
As we are checking out, the nice guy looks at me smiles looks at hubby and says awesome jacket, I have the same one, but in a different color, but mine looks better (notice the dread game) so I turn to hubby and go MeWoow "cat scratch noise" and laugh. He does to. 

I have to ask the guy 3 times where he got his and suggest the place where hubby got his. The store is closing and he walks around the counter to escort us to the door, then he notices hubby's shoes and says "oh look at you rockin the throw back style".... I said to hubby he's hitting on you more than me, we laugh. The guy is still ignoring me as I say we'll check out that shop it's down on such-n-such. He did kind of mumbled yea ok. I really don't think he was into dudes, ya know. Too funny. 

Hours later, after we eat get coffee change clothes, get caught up in pitch perfect making fun of people we know, it's midnight and we head back to our hang out. I mention the guy from earlier, hubby goes, "yea I know eww". We laugh. I ask him if some other guys were checking me out today. He said honestly he didn't notice because he was too busy checking me out and thinking about some perverted things to do to me later. 

To quote the great dot warner...,"boys".


----------



## Cosmos

Jellybeans said:


> Haha. Women are a LOT less obvious at checking out men than men are. :rofl:
> 
> But have any of you ladies ever gotten "caught" checking out a dude's package? I have and it was EMBARRASSING. LOL


Only when an old boss of mine used to stand in front of my desk rearranging his family jewels... Very hard not to notice those sort of manipulations at eye level


----------



## karma*girl

This is cool, I love how threads take on a life of their own..(no sarcasm: )

Thank to all that have brought good info & advice, I appreciate it!

I see, by this point, there has been ample time for all sorts of assumptions to be made. I have some time now so I'm happy to comment.

Let me clarify by saying, first off & most importantly, I am in zero way a woman basher. That was a loaded presumption. 
We women have a lot to worry about, we don't need other women to pit against us. 

However, yes, you did sense anger in my first post because, well, I was a bit angry about my situation...not angry AT those women I was talking about. There is a difference.
I think I said specifically that my in my post I was venting.
I apologize if you read it as if I was blaming other women & shaming toward them- that was not at all my point of posting.

If you'll notice, my wording is 'The annoyance of ****ty LOOKING women.'
I didn't know any other way to describe the way they were dressed. I think I used provocative as well, but ****ty pretty much hits the nail on the head. I apologize if I offended anyone, honestly : /

In real life, my life, I do have insecurities. Anyone who has been here for a few years, can follow my posts & see a trend, I'm sure. I'm the first to admit it. 
I am very good at keeping it together & being a good person in tough situations...specifically toward my husband. Most veterans here know we have a solid relationship..that doesn't omit us from having issues at times.

When something happens that irritates me, I try to present my best self..keep my wits about me. 
Then I come here, like I would come to my friends, to vent, pick brains, get a deeper understanding of whatever I'm going through.
(Not unlike many others here.) 

In person, when my husband gives a few consecutive 'glances' at scantly clad women, I don't pout, I don't act grumpy, etc..
I will ask him though, "Is that necessary..to look that many times?" His denial of doing it is one problem I have.

The thing is, you guys are not getting the gist of what my actual dilemma was/is.

It wasn't how I hate these women or how I expect my husband to look at me only, at all times. That theme evolved pretty quickly/strongly & that's very far off.

My dilemma was - how do I deal with the fact that I want to look beautiful, classy, lady-like, (and he does too..)
while he freely will soak in the sights the half naked ladies walking by. 
Literally, parts practically out- right out there. 
(We were not at the beach, just at a popular outdoor shopping place in LA.

Let me spell out the situation- sitting facing each other, talking, having a good time, then he turns to look..looks back at me, zones out from what I'm saying..looks again...I say, "hello?" 
Because these 'glances' are longer than a second..but not enough to be ogling I guess..anyway, then one last time, looking slightly over his shoulder..gotta see that ass right!? Then I say" Is that necessary?" He goes on to question what aim talking about, blah, blah, blah...

I know about the quick fantasies that run through guys heads in these situations- There's a lengthy thread on them & it pretty much guarantees that he was filing that image away, while simultaneously have a super quickie in his head with her. I just don't understand how to be fine with that. 
I guess because, even if I see a guy as hot, I just don't think of having sex with him. I'd feel like I was mentally cheating & call me lame, but I am that loyal I guess. 

I suppose if I start rating guys I see & fantasizing about them, mentally screwing them, etc...I'm sure I'll feel better. 
Or maybe I'll just wear my shorty shorts & white tank with no bra out in public so he can watch me tempt every man within eyeshot.

I don't know. It's just a struggle to deal with what he does vs. what he wants me to do.

Thanks again to those who can identify with this & helpfully guide me. XO

Ps- I do this all on my iPhone, so I apologize for any typos! 



This is cool, I love how threads take on a life of their own..(no sarcasm: )

Thank to all that have brought good info & advice, I appreciate it!

I see, by this point, there has been ample time for all sorts of assumptions to be made. I have some time now so I'm happy to comment.

Let me clarify by saying, first off & most importantly, I am in zero way a woman basher. That was a loaded presumption. 
We women have a lot to worry about, we don't need other women to pit against us. 

However, yes, you did sense anger in my first post because, well, I was a bit angry about my situation...not angry AT those women I was talking about. There is a difference.
I think I said specifically that my in my post I was venting.
I apologize if you read it as if I was blaming other women & shaming toward them- that was not at all my point of posting.

If you'll notice, my wording is 'The annoyance of ****ty LOOKING women.'
I didn't know any other way to describe the way they were dressed. I think I used provocative as well, but ****ty pretty much hits the nail on the head. I apologize if I offended anyone, honestly : /

In real life, my life, I do have insecurities. Anyone who has been here for a few years, can follow my posts & see a trend, I'm sure. I'm the first to admit it. 
I am very good at keeping it together & being a good person in tough situations...specifically toward my husband. Most veterans here know we have a solid relationship..that doesn't omit us from having issues at times.

When something happens that irritates me, I try to present my best self..keep my wits about me. 
Then I come here, like I would come to my friends, to vent, pick brains, get a deeper understanding of whatever I'm going through.
(Not unlike many others here.) 

In person, when my husband gives a few consecutive 'glances' at scantly clad women, I don't pout, I don't act grumpy, etc..
I will ask him though, "Is that necessary..to look that many times?" His denial of doing it is one problem I have.

The thing is, you guys are not getting the gist of what my actual dilemma was/is.

It wasn't how I hate these women or how I expect my husband to look at me only, at all times. That theme evolved pretty quickly/strongly & that's very far off.

My dilemma was - how do I deal with the fact that I want to look beautiful, classy, lady-like, (and he does too..)
while he freely will soak in the sights the half naked ladies walking by. 
Literally, parts practically out- right out there. 
(We were not at the beach, just at a popular outdoor shopping place in LA.

Let me spell out the situation- sitting facing each other, talking, having a good time, then he turns to look..looks back at me, zones out from what I'm saying..looks again...I say, "hello?" 
Because these 'glances' are longer than a second..but not enough to be ogling I guess..anyway, then one last time, looking slightly over his shoulder..gotta see that ass right!? Then I say" Is that necessary?" He goes on to question what aim talking about, blah, blah, blah...

I know about the quick fantasies that run through guys heads in these situations- There's a lengthy thread on them & it pretty much guarantees that he was filing that image away, while simultaneously have a super quickie in his head with her. I just don't understand how to be fine with that. 
I guess because, even if I see a guy as hot, I just don't think of having sex with him. I'd feel like I was mentally cheating & call me lame, but I am that loyal I guess. 

I suppose if I start rating guys I see & fantasizing about them, mentally screwing them, etc...I'm sure I'll feel better. 
Or maybe I'll just wear my shorty shorts & white tank with no bra out in public so he can watch me tempt every man within eyeshot.

I don't know. It's just a struggle to deal with what he does vs. what he wants me to do.

Thanks again to those who can identify with this & helpfully guide me. XO

Ps- I do this all on my iPhone, so I apologize for any typos! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## karma*girl

...annnnnd sorry for the double post. ^
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cosmos

> *Karma*girl said:*
> 
> Let me spell out the situation- sitting facing each other, talking, having a good time, then he turns to look..looks back at me, zones out from what I'm saying..looks again...I say, "hello?"
> 
> Because these 'glances' are longer than a second..but not enough to be ogling I guess..anyway, then one last time, looking slightly over his shoulder..gotta see that ass right!? Then I say" Is that necessary?" He goes on to question what aim talking about, blah, blah, blah...


If he's actually turning around and zoning out like that, he's being disrespectful. IMO, he's ogling.


----------



## RandomDude

:slap:

You ladies look at other ladies WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more then us men... and yet you're criticising us? Wah?

Bah!


----------



## karma*girl

Yea, maybe you're right. I just try to give him the benefit if the doubt: / (sort of)
And yep- we look at other women, for sure! I'm usually doing it to memorize what she's wearing or admiring how she looks on the whole..but I'm not picturing her bent over my couch, etc..that part freaks me out..the fact that you guys do that. ouch.

Today at a coffee shop, 3 guys were looking at me off & on- it was pretty uncomfortable knowing what they might be thinking.
I was dressed in workout pants & tank.. nothing exciting. So I left out the back door to avoid walking in front of them. 
I think having a 17 year old daughter makes me extra sensitive to these types of things.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## richie33

Two set of eyes looking at the same thing, one set is wrong and the other just paying attention to the persons wardrobe. Sorry karma girl you maybe spending too much time caring what might be in other peoples head.


----------



## RandomDude

=/

Very VERY rarely do I look at a woman and automatically think of her bent over my couch

A lamborghini could drive past me and it'll still make me look, then I'll go back to my own business within seconds, doesn't mean I'm thinking of bending it over!


----------



## karma*girl

After that thread I read, I honestly got the impression that all guys will fantasize in some sexual way about the hottie in question..I know assuming is never good, but it sounded pretty probable after all the confirmations from the men.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JCD

always_alone said:


> My theory is that men just tell themselves this because they want to pretend their women never notice other men, or fantasize about them.


Mmm. No. I say this because I look at a couple of different factors.

1) The Pamela/Tommy Effect: Where really hot women go out with gentlemen who are pretty awful looking but have other socio/economic/coolness numbers to make up for this.

2) Lesbians. Outside of the odd Lipstick Lesbian (who I have other theories about) most Lesbians I know or have seen are NOT peac*cks or visually stunning. They are clean, presentable...and dowdy. Proof? Take a look at all the photos when NY started gay marriage and point out the visually stunning lesbians vs. the incredibly dressed men. If one assumes that Lesbians are normal women except for their predilection for girls, this says a lot about what is the PRIMARY attractant to them. (Granted, they are fishing in a very small dating pool)

3) The 'Are you wearing THAT?' effect: Where a woman is quite vocal about a man's fashion choices. The woman generally picks something which bespeaks class, status and MAYBE sexually attractive.

4) Porn differences: For men, it's a 15 minute film with naked chicks and sex. For women, it's a nice long book about this ever escalating relationship between Heathcliff and whatever her name was with every gesture, moment and word captured and conveyed _into her imagination, not her eyes._

I think women are visual creatures to a certain extent and sure they fantasize. However, I think there have been psychological studies to the effect that women are NOT as aroused by visual stimulus as men. There is a reason why young men from 16-25 have higher insurance rates and the need for speed is only half of it. 

This is only an opinion however and I am sure there is a lot of latitude in individuals.

And really...our egos are not as fragile as all that. At least most of us.


----------



## JCD

lifeistooshort said:


> Mine is that they tell themselves this in order to justify why they're entitled to a 9 or 10 when they're a 4.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And how do you explain the 4 men walking around with 9's?


----------



## JCD

karma*girl said:


> After that thread I read, I honestly got the impression that all guys will fantasize in some sexual way about the hottie in question..I know assuming is never good, but it sounded pretty probable after all the confirmations from the men.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Fantasize is a bit strong.

Generally, if a generously endowed woman is bending over in front of me with a scoop neck or something low cut, I am not thinking of her bent over anything.

It's more like "Boobs! Yay!" Appreciation of what is seen.

I can't say men NEVER 'get to the couch', but speaking personally, not very often.


----------



## gumtree

Caribbean Man said:


> You said it so much better than I could say it!
> 
> Well, thank you kind sir.  I meant just to illustrate that my boyfriend who is quite a lot younger than me (in his 20s, I'm in my 30s) is well aware of when I'm being treated respectfully. I truthfully hadnt noticed the young guy staring at me, but was very creeped out by the married man leering. Bf was glaring at him and I found myself holding his arm as we left, not to protect me but to keep him from squaring up to the guy about his 'eye problem'
> 
> Women can dress provocatively , men can't.


Weeeeell I'd have to say that in this climate a well build 20-something (my bf or not) strolling about with his shirt off is very hard not to stare at disrespectfully. It takes as much conscious effort to look away from a fine male body on display as a fine female! And I do not identify as anything other than hetero-sexual. I just have an eye for beauty, though I am careful not to offend my bf as he is with me and I certainly dont want to inadvertently give a 'come on' to anyone just by looking. OP, whats good for the goose is good for the gander - in these climates you just have to accept that the streets can be a visual feast at times for both partners!!


----------



## Cosmos

RandomDude said:


> :slap:
> 
> You ladies look at other ladies WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more then us men... and yet you're criticising us? Wah?
> 
> Bah!


For sure, but unless we're gay or bi-sexual we're not viewing them in a sexual way.

In any case, I don't think any reasonable person objects to "looking." It's when that "looking" becomes staring or rubber-necking - ie ogling.

If my SO wants to ogle other women, he's welcome to do so. Just not when he's out with me.


----------



## Wiltshireman

Upsetting your wife / partner is not the only danger when looking at scantily clad young ladies.

Miniskirt clad Czech cardboard cut-out police officers cause double the amount of accidents - Telegraph


----------



## Holland

JCD said:


> ..............
> 4) Porn differences: For men, it's a 15 minute film with naked chicks and sex. For women, it's a nice long book about this ever escalating relationship between Heathcliff and whatever her name was with every gesture, moment and word captured and conveyed _into her imagination, not her eyes._
> 
> .....


Maybe in your limited experience of women but not in the real world out there. ALL people are different. I have never read or even skimmed a romance novel, none of my IRL circle of friends have ever mentioned reading them. We are middle aged women and readily admit to watching porn, and no not the storybook type, much prefer to get right to the point.


----------



## JCD

Holland said:


> Maybe in your limited experience of women but not in the real world out there. ALL people are different. I have never read or even skimmed a romance novel, none of my IRL circle of friends have ever mentioned reading them. We are middle aged women and readily admit to watching porn, and no not the storybook type, much prefer to get right to the point.


Ah...are you denying there is a pretty substantial market for the things?

I've also known women to lie about reading such things.

Like porn, it's a 'Guilty Pleasure'.


Sort of like Surf Ninjas.

I am not dismissing your point. I am pointing out a huge female market which is aimed at one thing: to tickle their romance bone (with a dollop of sex)


----------



## Holland

I'm sure there is a big market for nearly everything, no denying it.

Was simply pointing out that your generalisation is just that, a generalisation, not an absolute. It may be the norm in your life/circle of friends and family but that does not make it the norm everywhere.


----------



## JCD

Holland said:


> I'm sure there is a big market for nearly everything, no denying it.
> 
> Was simply pointing out that your generalisation is just that, a generalisation, not an absolute. It may be the norm in your life/circle of friends and family but that does not make it the norm everywhere.


Of course not. Do you think the romance novel market is larger or smaller than the female porn market?

Just so we can give weight to our generalities


----------



## Holland

I'm not making any generalisations, I agree that there is a market for romance novels. Merely saying that your male/female POV of porn is coming from a male POV that has not considered that you are not in a position to speak on behalf of females. Your statement may be true in your experience but is not the truth overall.


----------



## JCD

Okay

Here are some questions.

1) Do you think men or women are generally more sexually stimulated by visuals?

2) If you are a lady, have you ever almost had an auto accident because you saw a hot guy? If you are a guy, have you almost ever had an accident because you saw a hot woman?

3) If you are a lady, have you ever been sexually aroused by JUST a picture of a hot man? Just SEEING the picture. Men, same question the other way.

My answers:

Men

Yes

and Yes.


----------



## Jellybeans

Cosmos said:


> Only when an old boss of mine used to stand in front of my desk rearranging his family jewels... Very hard not to notice those sort of manipulations at eye level


:rofl:

UGH! I had a professor who used to do this in college!!! He would seriously put one of his legs up on the desk in a super awkward position, in front of class, while lecturing, and well, WTF were we supposed to do?

He was hot, too.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

tornado said:


> Dressing provocative is determined by the dresser IMO. One person my consider it to be provocative, another my consider it looking nice. Ad long as your within the legal limits what does it matter? A person shouldn't have to dress a certain way so people don't ogle them, that's not their responsibility.


I haven't seen anyone use any pictures yet on here... how about these....acceptable for walking down the street, into our local Walmart ? (given the shots below ...these are far superior)......










Now, gonna be honest here...if I see women out & about like this - outside of that beach setting ....I'm going to have a flash in my head *(and I'd also point them out to my husband*) that they are "seeking attention".... do I care.. NO... not at all [email protected]#$...it's their life....live it- enjoy it! 

I also know my husband is not interested in these sort of women...if I dressed like this, he would never have wanted me... and as parents... we'd also NOT want our daughter to go outside the house like this... we'd be UP IN ARMS About it !

That's just how we feel....in our world, you don't intentionally dress to turn men's heads... along with the greatest freedom of expression, some of us are still older fashioned minded....this doesn't mean we go around calling anyone Sl**s though....this word is not used or slipped from us.... it's their life and choices.. but not all of us feel it is...can I use the word... "wise" to step out of the house like that... that it attracts a little too much attention... if this is what they want...like I said... more power to them!!...

Karma*girl, these women you are referring to.... I am assuming they weren't dressed THIS provocatively... this is probably overkill...but I don't know....we are from a small town & I'm sure it's more conservative than a big city per say.....just thought I'd throw a couple images on here....



Jellybeans said:


> *Haha. Women are a LOT less obvious at checking out men than men are. :rofl:
> 
> But have any of you ladies ever gotten "caught" checking out a dude's package? I have and it was EMBARRASSING. LOL*


 I've always looked at men....but can't say I was ever the type to look at packages... I just notice the face and body type... He knows what turns my head.. I know what turns his.... we both give each other a squeeze and "you're the only one for me baby" type responses ...when we have those sort of quick looks.... but yeah.. nothing wrong with noticing the opposite sex..that's just living...and breathing..

... Can anyone deny though...how we Dress gives IMPRESSIONS about us -from strangers??... why some get a charge out of who goes to Walmart, anything will step out of the house.....Freaks...right? 










You know what... people and their choices make for much amusement for us... this is kinda how we view these things... but yet...there is *impressions* there none the less... not sure how one gets away from that...


----------



## samyeagar

Holland said:


> Maybe in your limited experience of women but not in the real world out there. ALL people are different. I have never read or even skimmed a romance novel, none of my IRL circle of friends have ever mentioned reading them. We are middle aged women and readily admit to watching porn, and no not the storybook type, much prefer to get right to the point.


This is kind of like my STBW. No interest in romance novels and crap like that. She likes visual porn without the bad story lines and dialogue. She likes it straight to the point. That's how my ex-wife was as well, and most women I have known honestly.


----------



## JCD

SA, 

I love your posts. I wish you could format your pictures better. You are making my screen cry...both for the images and the formatting.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Jellybeans said:


> :rofl:
> 
> UGH! I had a professor who used to do this in college!!! He would seriously put one of his legs up on the desk in a super awkward position, in front of class, while lecturing, and well, WTF were we supposed to do?
> 
> He was hot, too.



When i was in first yr Eng. our Applied Mechanics lecturer did the same thing, but he definitely looked gross.

Sometimes he would " dry hump" the corner of his desk , whilst lecturing.

There were only two females in our class of 20, and they always sat in he last rows during his class.


----------



## SunnyT

Seems like OP's question is.... 

how can I attract my husband when he is not okay with me dressing like the women that he keeps looking at, while keeping in mind that I don't want to dress that way????

Answer: You already attract him. He is married to you, makes love to you, lives his life with you. If the relationship is going well then you ARE attractive to him. Dress in whatever way is confidence boosting for YOU. You really aren't in any competition with them, not even in his mind.


----------



## always_alone

JCD said:


> I think women are visual creatures to a certain extent and sure they fantasize. However, I think there have been psychological studies to the effect that women are NOT as aroused by visual stimulus as men.


Psychological studies show that women ARE aroused by visual stimuli, and a much wider range of them than men.

The rest is just stuff you made up.


----------



## always_alone

Cosmos said:


> If he's actually turning around and zoning out like that, he's being disrespectful. IMO, he's ogling.


:iagree:

At that point, I think I'd just get up and walk away.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

samyeagar said:


> This is kind of like my STBW. *No interest in romance novels and crap like that.* She likes visual porn without the bad story lines and dialogue. She likes it straight to the point. That's how my ex-wife was as well, and most women I have known honestly.


Awe it's not all crap... I used to love romance novels... I wish I read more of them back in the day ...as they always made me want to jump my husband within seconds of those hot pages.. darn it ! I would skim just to get to those pages... A hot R rated scene did just as much if not more so.. and now I've added soft porn to that.. I think this is the limit though.

I don't need any of those things mind you.. but back in the day, my mind wasn't *as *sexually focused.. so the Romance novels were a blessing really.. he could have done more to Jump start me... so if other things did that... hey, it was good for both of us!



> *JCD said: **SA,
> 
> I love your posts. I wish you could format your pictures better. You are making my screen cry...both for the images and the formatting*.


 I do not know what you mean?? I realize many use ipods, phones & the like and maybe viewing pics is a hardship on those small devices ??... I only use a Laptop at home and it all flows in a post for me..







JCD!


----------



## SimplyAmorous

SunnyT said:


> Seems like OP's question is....
> 
> how can I attract my husband when he is not okay with me dressing like the women that he keeps looking at, while keeping in mind that I don't want to dress that way????
> 
> Answer: *You already attract him. He is married to you, makes love to you, lives his life with you. If the relationship is going well then you ARE attractive to him. Dress in whatever way is confidence boosting for YOU. You really aren't in any competition with them, not even in his mind*.


A lady on the street... and letting it all loose at home *for his eyes only*..... ever greet him at the door in lingerie.. pull him to the bedroom....cook his breakfast in some heels, maybe something like this ....







....

I went on a Lingerie kick on Ebay once.. that was a LOT of fun... surprise your man ! .....dressing like that can really Up your confidence too.. when you see how he Reacts....you have the power to stir him.. focus on this...not these other women...but your feminine charm to allure him..have fun with it, Flirt -tease and please.


----------



## struggle

I would be really p*ssed off if my man oogled another woman. I have seen my X do a glance, probably just to make sure he saw it right the first time, then he goes about his business. And I watch for sure. That's one of the biggest props I can give my X...he never made me feel insecure about paying attention to other women. 

And it's true, for me, when a man has his woman with her and he's checking me/another woman out I feel sorry for the woman...and I don't dress provactively. It makes the guy look like an *ss. 

There was a trainer at the gym I was talking to. Casual and just regular 'hi, how are you' type talks when we ran into each other. One day he said, "If I didn't have a gf I would be chasing you all over this place." I was stunned, and my respect for him just dropped. Well I feel sorry for your gf then. Ugh. Why are you thinking that way when you have a gf?? I just imagined myself in the place of the gf and felt sick. Needless to say my wall has gone up with that guy.

So, no respect for guys that oogle when they've got a girl. So so wrong. OP, I agree that you should be looking to your man about his reactions to these women, because he's behavior is innapropriate if it's more than a glance IMO. Women are going dress how they want, no controlling that!



JCD said:


> Okay
> 
> Here are some questions.
> 
> 1) Do you think men or women are generally more sexually stimulated by visuals?
> 
> 2) If you are a lady, have you ever almost had an auto accident because you saw a hot guy? If you are a guy, have you almost ever had an accident because you saw a hot woman?
> 
> 3) If you are a lady, have you ever been sexually aroused by JUST a picture of a hot man? Just SEEING the picture. Men, same question the other way.


1: Men
2: No
3: No - not that I can remember. 
But if the guy's in front of me..uhh yeah! And the picture in my head for later


----------



## Faithful Wife

I would answer yes to 2 and 3 of JCD's questions, and for 1 I would say "equal". As the numbers of porn users rise, so will the balance between men and women users, until soon it will be equal because kids at current are all watching it in equal numbers. It has been a society thing that has so far told girls "they don't like porn like guys do". But now that it is free and easy for everyone, they will find out that was always untrue.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Why more and more women are using pornography | Culture | The Guardian

"One 19-year-old college student writes: "It started seriously when I was about 14, I stumbled across some pictures while doing homework. Because all I had typed into Google was 'cream and sugar', I knew my parents wouldn't notice. I learnt all the ways round the parental controls, meticulously deleted my activities on the history and deleted the search engine entries every time."

"But as porn becomes more pervasive, Hodson observes that women are now also using it as a quick way to have sex without emotional investment, just as men traditionally have. "For women, just as for men, the internet is able to satisfy that need in rather a raw, crude sense, quickly and easily. Why serenade someone and go through all the courtship rituals with another person when you have Google?"


----------



## samyeagar

SunnyT said:


> Seems like OP's question is....
> 
> how can I attract my husband when he is not okay with me dressing like the women that he keeps looking at, while keeping in mind that I don't want to dress that way????
> 
> Answer: *You already attract him. He is married to you, makes love to you, lives his life with you*. If the relationship is going well then you ARE attractive to him. Dress in whatever way is confidence boosting for YOU. You really aren't in any competition with them, not even in his mind.


Marrying and being married to someone, and being attracted to them, making love to them are mutually exclusive. One does not depend on the other. Sure, it's great when they coincide...


----------



## JCD

always_alone said:


> Psychological studies show that women ARE aroused by visual stimuli, and a much wider range of them than men.
> 
> The rest is just stuff you made up.


This is called 'learning by observation'. I see how real people act in situations and draw conclusions from them.

Since you are criticizing me for 'making stuff up' I await your citation eagerly. If you are going to cite the study by Brain Research, it has a number of major flaws, though it is suggestive (had to add that)

And please note: I am not saying women CAN'T be visual. I am saying that men are generally (YMMV) MORE visual or at least let's it influence their behavior more and is a SUBSTANTIAL influence upon their mating choices.

My 'citations'?

I don't read about women putting camera's under male coworkers desks to see a shot of their 'package'. And yet, some (skeevy) men are visually motivated enough to do this.

I have not noticed women paying for webcams of needy young Russian males so they can pout at a camera in a speedo. And yet men do...which leads to the next fact.

The 'put your money where your mouth is' principle: As FW has mentioned, now that porn is essentially free, women are starting to look at it in increasing numbers. When it cost money...not so much. Men did...and still do. 

A rich man will marry a hot waitress. Few women will, at least as I've seen, though Demi Moore had that thing with that brain damaged busboy for a while.


----------



## Holland

JCD said:


> This is called 'learning by observation'. I see how real people act in situations and draw conclusions from them.
> 
> Since you are criticizing me for 'making stuff up' I await your citation eagerly.


Great so does that mean that as you are now hearing that women do like porn and are stimulated by visuals that this will become part of your "learning by observation"?


----------



## Faithful Wife

Rich Spanish duchess weds for third time at age 85


----------



## Faithful Wife

JCD...get with the times and let go of your preconceived notions. Then you might see something new.


----------



## always_alone

JCD said:


> This is called 'learning by observation'. I see how real people act in situations and draw conclusions from them.
> 
> Since you are criticizing me for 'making stuff up' I await your citation eagerly.


Citation? You post 4 little anecdotes and you want a citation?

1. One couple does not a truth make. Just because you have decided they are a mismatch, and that she should do "better" does not make it so. And before you give me the sugar daddy phenomenon, let me assure you this is not about sex or visuals.

2. It surprises you that lesbians don't waste their time catering to male sexuality? And in order to be visual, they have to be wearing lipstick? Really? The lesbians I know *love* the way women look, but their preferences are not defined by the male gaze. Imagine that!

3. Last I heard, fashion *is* visuals. You can make it up to be something else, but really it's about looking good.

4. Porn is mostly consumed by men because it is designed for the male gaze and is actually pretty insulting to female sexuality. But as this changes, yep, as others have pointed out, women are just as happy with it as a romance novel.


----------



## Jellybeans

SimplyAmorous said:


>


Ah!!! The People of Walmart! Great way to kill any boner immediately! HAHAHAHA. 



Caribbean Man said:


> When i was in first yr Eng. our Applied Mechanics lecturer did the same thing, *but he definitely looked gross.*
> 
> There were only two females in our class of 20, and they always sat in he last rows during his class.


:rofl: Oh my GAWD. 

Maybe he wanted the males' attention?


----------



## Jellybeans

Faithful Wife said:


> "But as porn becomes more pervasive, Hodson observes that women are now also using it as a quick way to have sex without emotional investment, just as men traditionally have. "For women, just as for men, the internet is able to satisfy that need in rather a raw, crude sense, quickly and easily. *Why serenade someone and go through all the courtship rituals with another person when you have Google?"*


Epic! HAHAHAHA :rofl: Love this so much! HAHAHAHA


----------



## Holland

We get those Walmart links on FB. Are they for real? Is it like some pissing comp to see who can look the most outrageous and skanky?

Someone should market this for the International tourist, "come and see the Walmart freaks tour".


----------



## doubletrouble

OP, my W agrees with you. The difference here is I'm not disrespectful and ogle other women. Whether I'm with her or not, I just don't look out of respect for my relationship and out of love for her. 

I will confess I have not always been that way. I love a nice display as much as the next guy. 

It's called growing up, and having respect for your mate's wishes.


----------



## Jellybeans

Holland said:


> We get those Walmart links on FB. Are they for real?


Yep. They are legit. Totally Walmart. :rofl:


----------



## Holland

Fantastic stuff, keep the Walmart pics coming.


----------



## Jellybeans

Oh, Holland, there is an entire website dedicated to it:

http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/photos/Walmart


Have fun!


----------



## JCD

always_alone said:


> Citation? You post 4 little anecdotes and you want a citation?


Why yes. You don't get to take a cheap shot like that and then act like I am supposed to take you at your word. You don't like my 'assertions of made up stuff'. Okay. Show me something better.



> 1. One couple does not a truth make. Just because you have decided they are a mismatch, and that she should do "better" does not make it so. And before you give me the sugar daddy phenomenon, let me assure you this is not about sex or visuals.


The Demi Moore quip was a joke.



> 2. It surprises you that lesbians don't waste their time catering to male sexuality? And in order to be visual, they have to be wearing lipstick? Really? The lesbians I know *love* the way women look, but their preferences are not defined by the male gaze. Imagine that!


And here you go, proving my bloody point from your own words.

*



It surprises you that lesbians don't waste their time catering to male sexuality?

Click to expand...

*Well...if they are NOT all looking like Portia De Rossi and tend to 'ahem' underdress, than what is one to conclude about 'female sexuality', pray tell? That it is MORE visual because lesbians dress dowdy? That dowdiness is what all women visually pine for? Huh. And men are wasting all that money on Armani.



> 3. Last I heard, fashion *is* visuals. You can make it up to be something else, but really it's about looking good.


And I can cite a scientific book which discusses how male fashion is all aboutstatus cues for women. So this is a bit of a gray area on exactly what is on display for the ladies.



> 4. Porn is mostly consumed by men because it is designed for the male gaze and is actually pretty insulting to female sexuality. But as this changes, yep, as others have pointed out, women are just as happy with it as a romance novel.


No comment because I don't disagree with this.


----------



## JCD

Faithful Wife said:


> JCD...get with the times and let go of your preconceived notions. Then you might see something new.


There is nothing new under the sun. Women still like pretty boys (see Bierber, Justine). They have always liked pretty boys. But they have OTHER factors which rate just as highly if not higher.

And I am listening. I am not convinced. Certainly not by mere assertions.

But thank you for the answers to my questions. Maybe you are as visual as a man. I've been in a couple of close calls, but never an accident.


----------



## always_alone

Faithful Wife said:


> Rich Spanish duchess weds for third time at age 85


Elizabeth Taylor's Last Husband Tells All About Their Marriage : People.com Mobile


----------



## ScarletBegonias

JCD said:


> There is nothing new under the sun. Women still like pretty boys (see Bierber, Justine). They have always liked pretty boys.


 noooooo!!!


----------



## Holland

Jellybeans said:


> Oh, Holland, there is an entire website dedicated to it:
> 
> Walmart At 2 AM - People Of Walmart
> 
> 
> Have fun!


Freaking hilarious.

"bottom biscuits" I have tears after reading some of the comments


----------



## Jellybeans

JCD said:


> There is nothing new under the sun. Women still like pretty boys (see Bierber, Justine).




Justin does not get me wet. At all. 

I want to shake him into reality and make him drink some hot tea and then send him to rehab, like his aunt. Not pull him into my bed with me.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

Jellybeans said:


> Justin does not get me wet. At all.
> 
> I want to shake him into reality and make him drink some hot tea and then send him to rehab, like his aunt. Not pull him into my bed with me.


This is how I know you're a better person than me. You want to take this approach and I just want to punch him in the face while screaming "wake the f**k up dude!!! you're ruining it for yourself!!!"


----------



## Jellybeans

ScarletBegonias said:


> This is how I know you're a better person than me. You want to take this approach and I just want to punch him in the face


Haha. I love you, SB. Violence and all. :smthumbup:


----------



## ScarletBegonias

Jellybeans said:


> Haha. I love you, SB. Violence and all. :smthumbup:


Right back at ya,JB. Sweet auntie approach and all


----------



## doubletrouble

Jellybeans said:


> Haha. I love you, SB. Violence and all. :smthumbup:





ScarletBegonias said:


> Right back at ya,JB. Sweet auntie approach and all


Girls, you're BOTH wonderful! 

Crap. Now I forgot what the thread was about.


----------



## JCD

always_alone said:


> Elizabeth Taylor's Last Husband Tells All About Their Marriage : People.com Mobile


Well, to add a bit of evidence to contradict my assertion, Catherine the Great seemed to like handsome cavalry men.

Granted, she wanted for nothing else so she could focus on whatever she wanted.

And no, I am not asserting she was easy. She seemed to be serially monogamous, staying with young and handsome men until THEY generally made THEMSELVES unsuitable.


----------



## JCD

ScarletBegonias said:


> noooooo!!!





ScarletBegonias said:


> This is how I know you're a better person than me. You want to take this approach and I just want to punch him in the face while screaming "wake the f**k up dude!!! you're ruining it for yourself!!!"


If it makes you feel any better, I feel the same way about him except I don't see a need to say anything to him.

What are your thoughts on Leonardo? I have no idea what is a pretty boy to girls.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

JCD said:


> If it makes you feel any better, I feel the same way about him except I don't see a need to say anything to him.
> 
> What are your thoughts on Leonardo? I have no idea what is a pretty boy to girls.


now that he's older I like him a bit more but he still doesn't get my skirt up over my head or anything. 

I'm still a fan of Adam Richman. Go ahead,make fun.


----------



## Omego

Jellybeans said:


> Oh, Holland, there is an entire website dedicated to it:
> 
> Walmart At 2 AM - People Of Walmart
> 
> 
> Have fun!


:rofl::rofl::rofl: OMG. Now I can't get anymore work done. It's so horrible, but I can't stop looking!! :rofl::rofl::rofl:


----------



## doubletrouble

Omego said:


> :rofl::rofl::rofl: OMG. Now I can't get anymore work done. It's so horrible, but I can't stop looking!! :rofl::rofl::rofl:


I better not look. I spend way too much time on TAM as it is. Another irresistable website would be too much.


----------



## Omego

doubletrouble said:


> I better not look. I spend way too much time on TAM as it is. Another irresistable website would be too much.


I know. And the comments..... I'm crying. :rofl::rofl:


----------



## Jellybeans

JCD said:


> What are your thoughts on Leonardo? I have no idea what is a pretty boy to girls.


DiCaprio? Good for a roll in the hay. Or an "in between relationships" lover. I don't find him "pretty" though. His appeal to me is more because of how low key he is about his personal life. I love men who are private and keep a low profile. It turns me on.


----------



## always_alone

JCD said:


> Well...if they are NOT all looking like Portia De Rossi and tend to 'ahem' underdress, than what is one to conclude about 'female sexuality', pray tell? That it is MORE visual because lesbians dress dowdy? That dowdiness is what all women visually pine for? Huh. And men are wasting all that money on Armani.


First of all, the "lesbians dress dowdy" is a totally false stereotype. Plenty are very sharp dressers. They just aren't necessarily catering to male porn fantasy about what a lesbian "should" be.

And plenty are highly visually stimulated by how women look. But go ahead and pretend it's not true if that makes you happier.



JCD said:


> And I can cite a scientific book which discusses how male fashion is all aboutstatus cues for women.


If it's all about status, tell me, why are a pair of tight-fitting blue jeans the number one choice among women for their sexy men?


----------



## JCD

always_alone said:


> First of all, the "lesbians dress dowdy" is a totally false stereotype. Plenty are very sharp dressers. They just aren't necessarily catering to male porn fantasy about what a lesbian "should" be.
> 
> And plenty are highly visually stimulated by how women look. But go ahead and pretend it's not true if that makes you happier.
> 
> 
> 
> If it's all about status, tell me, why are a pair of tight-fitting blue jeans the number one choice among women for their sexy men?


Really? I can just go by what I see. And mostly when I see gay pride parades or gay marriage reports on the t.v. the lesbians are not generally wowing me with their fashion sense and I don't mean in a porn star manner either. I mean their clothes look clean, well maintained and comfortable.

I looked up 'hot lesbian celebrities' to see if I was totally misinformed . The site was one lesbian and 9 bisexuals.

Just 'hot lesbians' would lead to more porn than I can stomach right now.

I never said it was ALL about status. I distinctly said it was a gray area. However when women are given STRANGE photographs to rate by attractiveness, with three different men dressed poor, moderate and high status, the women had a significant bias toward the high status no matter which man was dressed that way. Not 100 percent but significantly.

How they dress their husbands/bf for their OWN use is another matter entirely. They already know his status. But when the wife takes me out to a social engagement, status must be on display, not my buns. Maybe she is an outlier.


----------



## TiggyBlue

JCD said:


> The 'put your money where your mouth is' principle: As FW has mentioned, now that porn is essentially free, women are starting to look at it in increasing numbers. When it cost money...not so much. Men did...and still do.


I guess I see this in a different light, it make's sense women weren't into porn when the guy's in it weren't visually stimulating. There seems to be a increase in hot, young men in porn in recent years. Imo that has to increase in women watching porn a lot more than it being free.


----------



## doubletrouble

These jeans aren't blue...



name removed said:


>


----------



## Jellybeans

That guy does nothing for me, Double. Nothing at all. LOL.


----------



## doubletrouble

Jellybeans said:


> That guy does nothing for me, Double. Nothing at all. LOL.


lol I was kinda joking. There are other threads where this guy makes them drool... 

Point is, we all see attractive people, and in different ways, for different reasons. 

Main thing I think is to respect your partner and remember to always make them feel, no, KNOW they are not just #1 in your life, they are the only one. 

The rest are mere temporary distractions and mean nothing. Like noticing a billboard or an ad on TV.

W and I watched a Housewives show last night and laughed at these women who think they're the epitomy of pretty. Yet some people fawn all over them because, um, I guess because they're rich? Takes more than that to make my gears mesh.


----------



## TiggyBlue

Jellybeans said:


> But have any of you ladies ever gotten "caught" checking out a dude's package? I have and it was EMBARRASSING. LOL


There was a incident in my teens with a this really cute guy I was talking to who was obviously well endowed, our schools took us to this rock climbing place so the climbing equipment was accentuating his package. It was sooo embarrassing no matter how hard a tried my eyes would not stop glancing down (it was really obvious too). I just remember going bright red, apologizing walking away (didn't seem to put him off though lol).


----------



## ScarletBegonias

Put me in the boat with the girls getting caught junk watching.

When DH and I started dating the first thing I noticed: his junk. Always a faint outline of it in his pants. No matter what he wore I could still see it. One time he called me on it. "Do you know you junk watch like a dude boob watches?" omg.


----------



## tornado

*Re: Re: The annoyance of ****ty looking women..*



JCD said:


> If it makes you feel any better, I feel the same way about him except I don't see a need to say anything to him.
> 
> What are your thoughts on Leonardo? I have no idea what is a pretty boy to girls.


Ladies love Channing.


----------



## struggle

JCD said:


> If it makes you feel any better, I feel the same way about him except I don't see a need to say anything to him.
> 
> What are your thoughts on Leonardo? I have no idea what is a pretty boy to girls.


That's a big fat no on the Bieber...yuck

Leonardo definitely got better with age! I would do that, and I don't normally go for blondes lol

And a big fat 'YES' to Channing... 


Pretty boys...


----------



## Omego

Maybe number 5. The others are too pretty....


----------



## ScarletBegonias

I think there's something wrong with me.None of those did anything for me down below.


----------



## MaritimeGuy

I didn't read the whole thread but I can't help thinking of a woman showing off her assets in a blantantly obvious way as being similar to the 1200 calorie cream filled pastry in the window. Sure I'm going to drool over it when I walk by the bakery but it doesn't mean I'm going to stop in and buy it.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

MaritimeGuy said:


> I didn't read the whole thread but I can't help thinking of a woman showing off her assets in a blantantly obvious way as being similar to the 1200 calorie cream filled pastry in the window. Sure I'm going to drool over it when I walk by the bakery but it doesn't mean I'm going to stop in and buy it.


If you wouldn't gain weight from it and had nothing to lose,would you still walk on by or would you stop and buy it?


----------



## doubletrouble

Yay, I like you more and more, Scarlet. (post 181)


----------



## samyeagar

ScarletBegonias said:


> If you wouldn't gain weight from it and had nothing to lose,would you still walk on by or would you stop and buy it?


And if it didn't cost anything either...simply there for the taking...


----------



## MaritimeGuy

Deejo said:


> This is what I wear grocery shopping. I'm mortified by the attention I get when I'm bending and stretching to reach items.


Please tell me you at least have a bike parked in front of the store...


----------



## Jellybeans

:rofl:


----------



## MaritimeGuy

ScarletBegonias said:


> If you wouldn't gain weight from it and had nothing to lose,would you still walk on by or would you stop and buy it?


Well...I suppose if I wasn't risking weight gain, clogged arteries and an upset stomach I'd be chowing down with a big you know what eating grin on my face.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

FrenchFry said:


> I like faces with character. They are pretty, but don't catch my attention.


yeah I think that's my problem too.They're so...basic. 

We can't go by my taste though.I'm all over the place. Example,I find both of these guys wildly sexy.


----------



## doubletrouble

FrenchFry said:


> I like faces with character. They are pretty, but don't catch my attention.


FF you're awesome too. 

Thing is, even what the OP said about women with their stuff hanging out, it's just T&A guys. If that's all you're about, well, you're pretty shallow and maybe that kind of gal suits you. 

Sure we're going to notice. Both genders. It's part of the constant barrage we get out there. Whether it's an assault, as in OP and my W, or it's fluff (as I see it) or it's something you really want, it's always out there. Like air and water. It's how you and your mate take it in that matters. 

Again, just respect your partner and make him or her know that there's only room for one in your heart.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

Equal opportunity ogler here. I will stare at you if your body parts are hanging out.Doesn't matter if they're breasts,pecs,penis or vag. I like looking at people.


----------



## tornado

*Re: Re: The annoyance of ****ty looking women..*



struggle said:


> That's a big fat no on the Bieber...yuck
> 
> Leonardo definitely got better with age! I would do that, and I don't normally go for blondes lol
> 
> And a big fat 'YES' to Channing...
> 
> 
> Pretty boys...


I love the "I would do that" statement. 
:thumbup:


----------



## tornado

*Re: Re: The annoyance of ****ty looking women..*



MaritimeGuy said:


> I didn't read the whole thread but I can't help thinking of a woman showing off her assets in a blantantly obvious way as being similar to the 1200 calorie cream filled pastry in the window. Sure I'm going to drool over it when I walk by the bakery but it doesn't mean I'm going to stop in and buy it.


I compare it to the ladies looking at shoes. They are not buying, they love the shoes they have but the just have to look.


----------



## tornado

*Re: Re: The annoyance of ****ty looking women..*



ScarletBegonias said:


> Equal opportunity ogler here. I will stare at you if your body parts are hanging out.Doesn't matter if they're breasts,pecs,penis or vag. I like looking at people.


Even if its somebody unattractive, I still look twice just to make sure Im not crazy. "Did I really see that"? No girl just NO!!!!


----------



## Faithful Wife

Soon there will be stats that show that as many women as men watch and make porn....so there'll be no more reason to debate the issue.

It was not culturally acceptable for women to use porn "back in the day". Whereas men gave their younger friends/nephews/brothers porn directly and encouraged them to use it.

Do you (any of you guys) honestly think it would not have been the same for women back then if our mothers handed it to us and encouraged the use?

As for myself...I knew where the stuff was in every home I ever entered...I went through everything looking for it. Always found it. Always used it. Starting way before puberty. All on my own, no one even had to show me or encourage me.

There are all kinds of new porn companies popping up...feminist porn...lesbian porn (different than girl-on-girl)...amateur porn...and these companies are run by and controlled by women, for women.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

tornado said:


> Even if its somebody unattractive, I still look twice just to make sure Im not crazy. "Did I really see that"? No girl just NO!!!!


yup! My first glance is just the start.Then I glance again to be sure.Then a full on bug eyed ogle if it's really shocking


----------



## tornado

*Re: Re: The annoyance of ****ty looking women..*



ScarletBegonias said:


> yup! My first glance is just the start.Then I glance again to be sure.Then a full on bug eyed ogle if it's really shocking


One of the best places to be shocked, is the water park. You see all kinds, the hotties and the notties 
Some of it is unbelievable.


----------



## MaritimeGuy

What are people's thoughts on women who have it all hanging out then act offended if they catch someone ogling them? Do they have a right to be offended? Is the responsibility on us to resist our urge to ogle or on them to dress more modestly?


----------



## ScarletBegonias

MaritimeGuy said:


> What are people's thoughts on women who have it all hanging out then act offended if they catch someone ogling them? Do they have a right to be offended? Is the responsibility on us to resist our urge to ogle or on them to dress more modestly?


I think people who get offended at being checked out casually are ridiculous and unreasonable no matter what they're wearing. 

Now if someone is being really obnoxious and rude about it,yeah,I can see getting angry and offended about it.


----------



## MaritimeGuy

Faithful Wife said:


> Soon there will be stats that show that as many women as men watch and make porn....so there'll be no more reason to debate the issue.
> 
> It was not culturally acceptable for women to use porn "back in the day". Whereas men gave their younger friends/nephews/brothers porn directly and encouraged them to use it.
> 
> Do you (any of you guys) honestly think it would not have been the same for women back then if our mothers handed it to us and encouraged the use?
> 
> As for myself...I knew where the stuff was in every home I ever entered...I went through everything looking for it. Always found it. Always used it. Starting way before puberty. All on my own, no one even had to show me or encourage me.
> 
> There are all kinds of new porn companies popping up...feminist porn...lesbian porn (different than girl-on-girl)...amateur porn...and these companies are run by and controlled by women, for women.


I always got the sense the challenges many women face today around sexuality goes back to societal pressure to (at least on the surface) act demure and chaste. Women who were sexually aggressive were devalued. 

On the other hand typical male domains like garages and workshops have have the girlie calendars for many generations now. Men were encouraged to 'sow their wild oats' prior to settling down. 

We've had a double standard for a long time and I don't know that that has completely been eliminated. Just look to some of the threads that question her 'numbers' prior to marriage.


----------



## learning to love myself

JCD said:


> There is nothing new under the sun. Women still like pretty boys (see Bierber, Justine). They have always liked pretty boys. But they have OTHER factors which rate just as highly if not higher.
> 
> And I am listening. I am not convinced. Certainly not by mere assertions.
> 
> But thank you for the answers to my questions. Maybe you are as visual as a man. I've been in a couple of close calls, but never an accident.


EE gads, no on the pretty boy!!

I'm very visual, but when looking at a man and what I find attractive would be a manly man, like Sam Elliott, I know he is getting old but he is still HOT!!

I like a man to clean up nice, but all good with his jeans and tee shirt. 

Think "Marlboro Man" that's what gets me going, 

I'm lucky my husband has the rough and tumble thing going on.:smthumbup:


----------



## Jellybeans

ScarletBegonias said:


> I think people who get offended at being checked out casually are ridiculous and unreasonable no matter what they're wearing.
> 
> Now if someone is being really obnoxious and rude about it,yeah,I can see getting angry and offended about it.


Yep. As long as it's not ogling/like a creeper, it's flattering.


----------



## MaritimeGuy

I asked the question with a certain incident in mind. Within a group of friends there is a woman that has a tendency to show a fair amount. She's in great shape and looks good. We were out as a group on a wine tasting tour. She was tipsy and had her shirt unbuttoned to the point most of her breasts were exposed. She caught another male friend who's quite shy staring and her and blurted out, "what are you staring at?"

My girlfriend looked at her and said, "Hey...I'm not even into breasts and I'm staring..how can you not where they're right out in the open like that?"


----------



## ScarletBegonias

That kind of stuff is just plain mean. Especially if he's a shy man. It's like she had to call attention to the fact that she was being checked out by someone but didn't want to show she was enjoying it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Faithful Wife

Cindy Gallop: Make love, not porn | TED Blog

n 2009, self-confessed cougar Cindy Gallop, 54, spoke at a TED conference about her own experience bedding younger men and their increasing obsession with coming in a women’s face—the token “money shot” in porn which is depicted as an act all women and men love and desire. In response, pro-porn Gallop created the website Make Love Not Porn, where she challenges those myths of pornography by advocating for “real sex” in which not all women display hairless crotches and long to be sprayed in semen.


----------



## highwood

I did not read all the posts but yeah I kind of agree with the OP. At least be classy....

Sometimes it bugs me when women who have big boobs dress to show off their boobs yet they also have to lose weight so it is like okay by wearing that tight tank top are you now aware that your rolls are showing as well. Sometimes I think just because some guy is staring at your boobs does not mean he thinks you are good looking....I have seen the homliest looking women walking around like they are so hot because their double "d"s are on display and they catch some guy looking but it is like **** girl you take those away and that guy would not look twice.


----------



## samyeagar

All this talk of slvtty, but there was a brief mention earlier in the thread, not going back to find it, but in passing, something about yoga pants and a tank or something...seriously, all you ladies who wonder about it...yes, if you are wearing yoga pants/leggings and a tshirt, or tank, you are being checked out ALOT. Doesn't matter if you have your hair in a pony tail, are sweaty from a run, just got out of bed and threw it on to go to the store really quickly. You are being checked out. Nothing slvtty about what I just described is there?


----------



## highwood

learning to love myself said:


> EE gads, no on the pretty boy!!
> 
> I'm very visual, but when looking at a man and what I find attractive would be a manly man, like Sam Elliott, I know he is getting old but he is still HOT!!
> 
> I like a man to clean up nice, but all good with his jeans and tee shirt.
> 
> Think "Marlboro Man" that's what gets me going,
> 
> I'm lucky my husband has the rough and tumble thing going on.:smthumbup:


I agree! I like a man who is not afraid to get dirty and work hard....calloused hands, etc. Not some pretty boy who is getting manicures and facials.


----------



## highwood

MaritimeGuy said:


> What are people's thoughts on women who have it all hanging out then act offended if they catch someone ogling them? Do they have a right to be offended? Is the responsibility on us to resist our urge to ogle or on them to dress more modestly?


There was a girl who worked here in the office for a while and would dress to show off her surgically enhanced boobs and then complained and said she was going to file a grievance because some older guy was looking..wtf!!!!


----------



## struggle

learning to love myself said:


> EE gads, no on the pretty boy!!
> 
> I'm very visual, but when looking at a man and what I find attractive would be a manly man, like Sam Elliott, I know he is getting old but he is still HOT!!
> 
> I like a man to clean up nice, but all good with his jeans and tee shirt.
> 
> Think "Marlboro Man" that's what gets me going,
> 
> I'm lucky my husband has the rough and tumble thing going on.:smthumbup:


Wow...Sam Elliott...... well I can't talk. I have to admit that I would probably say yes to some Liam Neeson action :smthumbup:



ScarletBegonias said:


> yeah I think that's my problem too.They're so...basic.
> 
> We can't go by my taste though.I'm all over the place. Example,I find both of these guys wildly sexy.


How about these guys?


----------



## 45188

Im not even gay but I look 2-3 times at ****ty dressed women. It makes you insecure tho when your guy checks her out. It's disrespectul. Not all guys look, at least most of them are intelligent enough to be discreet about it. Some of them are nasty though. I see 40 year old guys checking me out all the time. It makes me feel dirty. Call me paranoid but sometimes I SWEAR I can feel them staring at my ass. I wear jeans and form fitting t shirts though, usually. I don't show cleavage. 

Anyway, girls, we're just as visual as they are. Just less retarded about it.

The Sexy Lie: Caroline Heldman at [email protected] - YouTube


----------



## samyeagar

kipani said:


> Im not even gay but I look 2-3 times at ****ty dressed women. It makes you insecure tho when your guy checks her out. It's disrespectul. Not all guys look, at least most of them are intelligent enough to be discreet about it. Some of them are nasty though. I see 40 year old guys checking me out all the time. It makes me feel dirty. Call me paranoid but sometimes I SWEAR I can feel them staring at my ass. I wear jeans and form fitting t shirts though, usually. I don't show cleavage.
> 
> Anyway, girls, we're just as visual as they are. Just less retarded about it.
> 
> The Sexy Lie: Caroline Heldman at [email protected] - YouTube


So would you feel dirty if it was a guy who you checked out and thought was pretty cute?

If you wear jeans and form fitting tshirts, of course you are going to get checked out...


----------



## Omego

struggle said:


> Wow...Sam Elliott...... well I can't talk. I have to admit that I would probably say yes to some Liam Neeson action :smthumbup:
> 
> 
> 
> How about these guys?


Naaa, I veto them. But a resounding YES to Liam Neeson.


----------



## Faithful Wife

kipani said:


> Some of them are nasty though. I see 40 year old guys checking me out all the time. It makes me feel dirty. Call me paranoid but sometimes I SWEAR I can feel them staring at my ass. I wear jeans and form fitting t shirts though, usually. I don't show cleavage.


Oh kipani...don't you know? Haven't you heard?

Around here these guys will tell you that young women are HOT for old men...you know, because you just want their money and "don't care about looks". :rofl:


----------



## karma*girl

If she's dressed with her bits out & on display, she KNOWS there will be eye-balls on her. All women KNOW this. 
For her to act like- "how dare you?" is just silly. 
It's as if she's setting the perfect scene for the attention & the right to reprimand when she catches the wandering eyes.

If the attention is innocent & inadvertent, I say no big deal.
If it's repeated & there is staring, leering & smirks, etc..that crosses the line into inappropriate behavior, no matter how she's dressed. 

Bottom line is that both sides can & should take some responsibility for their actions & the consequences of those actions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## samyeagar

Faithful Wife said:


> Oh kipani...don't you know? Haven't you heard?
> 
> Around here a *few vocal guys* will tell you that young women are HOT for old men...you know, because you just want their money and "don't care about looks". :rofl:


Just fixed that for ya


----------



## Faithful Wife

Even better...a few vocal guys who read books by men that tell men that women don't know what they want, so don't ask women! Oh yeah and then they tell us what we want...which is old men with money. Yep! Fer shure.


----------



## karma*girl

Kipani, 

Can you feel their eyes on you..like zoning in so strongly that you can actually feel it? 
I can sometimes & it feels kind of violating. 

Yes, it's worse when the guys are already unattractive to me.
However, if a guy IS attractive & looking, for some reason, he won't put off a creepy vibe. The good looking guys don't usually stare & ogle. They look & smile sometimes. 
They look & 'survey' the scene for sure, but they don't make themselves seem desperate.

THAT is what makes them even more attractive.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 45188

Lol, omg I'm so sorry, I don't want to sound shallow, but the grossest ones always have this beer gut and man boobs. HONK HONK. Young girls hot for older men? Someones living in lala(porno) land. Maybe if we're 15 and they have a car.

I agree, the uglier the guy, the creepier it is.

Hey samyeagar , you get checked out in jeans a t shirt? Should I wear a robe everywhere instead? Check my pro pic, those are the kinda clothes I wear.


----------



## Faithful Wife

It is the entire basis behind Married Man Sex Life.

Because you see, we will turn into old hags that no man will ever want.

While they will become attractive to playboy bunnies because young women just loooooove infertile old men with money! yeah baby!

That's how "sex rank" works and it is "science" doncha know?


----------



## samyeagar

karma*girl said:


> Kipani,
> 
> Can you feel their eyes on you..like zoning in so strongly that you can actually feel it?
> I can sometimes & it feels kind of violating.
> 
> Yes, it's worse when the guys are already unattractive to me.
> However, if a guy IS attractive & looking, for some reason, he won't put off a creepy vibe. The good looking guys don't usually stare & ogle. They look & smile sometimes.
> They look & 'survey' the scene for sure, but they don't make themselves seem desperate.
> 
> THAT is what makes them even more attractive.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So it's not about the attention in general, but whether or not it is desired from a specific man that makes the difference. Could it be that an ogle from a good looking guy is interpreted as a glancing survey, kind of minimized because the attention is welcomed, and a glance turns into a leer from an unattractive guy because it's unwelcome? Sort of along the lines if you are doing something fun, the time SEEMS to pass really quickly, but if it is boring, it SEEMS to drag on and on?


----------



## learning to love myself

struggle said:


> Wow...Sam Elliott...... well I can't talk. I have to admit that I would probably say yes to some Liam Neeson action :smthumbup:
> 
> 
> 
> How about these guys?


ok yes on Liam Neeson. 
He has the manly take charge, if your a bad girl your going to get spanked thing going on


----------



## 45188

lol! Those are the kinds of guys who get off to a screen too much, I'm guessing. Deluded. Most guys I know aren't like that. It's social conditioning, that's all. We're no more monogamous than they are. It's why infidelity rates are the same. 

And samyeagar, sorry dude, girls are just as visual as guys but WE don't stare like that. We know how it'd make our husbands feel. When a guy stares like that, you know hes picturing you naked and gonna probably add it to his spank bank later. And it goes through our head "Why is this fat gross old guy staring so hard at me???" And you KNOW why. And you PICTURE it in your head for a second and it's enough to just make you feel nasty. Violated.

Yes. Because he's ugly. I'm sure you don't like ugly girls checking you out either. Ugly guys are worse though. Or maybe I'm just shallow, since most of the guys I know would cornhole a twinkie if left alone long enough.


----------



## samyeagar

kipani said:


> Lol, omg I'm so sorry, I don't want to sound shallow, but the grossest ones always have this beer gut and man boobs. HONK HONK. Young girls hot for older men? Someones living in lala(porno) land. Maybe if we're 15 and they have a car.
> 
> I agree, the uglier the guy, the creepier it is.
> 
> Hey samyeagar , *you get checked out in jeans a t shirt*? Should I wear a robe everywhere instead? Check my pro pic, those are the kinda clothes I wear.


Yeah, all the time.

No, of course you shouldn't wear a robe everywhere, but you are going to get checked out, and I find it funny how many women don't seem to realize that jeans and a tshirt, yoga pants and a tank, a lot of men find incredibly hot even when things aren't hanging out all over the place.


----------



## samyeagar

learning to love myself said:


> ok yes on Liam Neeson.
> He has the manly take charge, if your a bad girl your going to get spanked thing going on


You know he's like that in his real actual private life? Or is that just because you imagine him that way?


----------



## karma*girl

I think it's more of a vibe the guy puts off. Creepy guys are generally more desperate & additionally, don't care what they come off like to others/women.
Women are pretty intuitive & can sense when a guy is leering or maybe even thinking nasty thoughts about them. 

On the whole, I haven't picked up that vibe from more attractive men. They seem to care more about how they project themselves & don't really let it turn into anything more than an appreciative look. 
Of course, that's all relative. 

I find polite men with good manners & a good vibe attractive..they may or may not 'look' amazing, but their confidence shows. They know they don't need to stare or gawk or whatever..they might have better boundaries & women generally pick up on that. 
That might be why the pervs out there creep us out. 

We sense they have no or low boundaries for what is appropriate or polite behavior toward others. I feel like it's a natural safety mechanism most (healthy) women have.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 45188

Well yeah, yoga pants. Even I stare at a girls ass in yoga pants. 100% straight. If you gotta look, just glance, discreetly, respect your wives. Why the **** would a chick stick around with your ass if you're disrespectful anyway? I respect my husband when I'm out and I don't stare at a hot guy or act like I want to sniff the air around his crotch. I mean maybe if I was single.. but you give respect to get respect.

And just so you know, this is the difference makeup makes on women. Brienne. Game of Thrones. Love that show. <3


----------



## karma*girl

Faithful Wife- I agree with all your points..
I seriously have thought everything you have said in your last few posts. 

There is some positive to it, (Ex: Athol) but it really pigeon holes people & gets people thinking obsessively about the wrong things, unimportant things...like sex-rank! Jeez.
If we believed everything we read, we'd all have reason to not believe that our spouses actually wanted us for the long haul, because, remember, they can always find someone younger, richer, more this or more that. 

So be scared & put on an act so he/she won't leave your arse! Yikes! : O
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## samyeagar

kipani said:


> lol! Those are the kinds of guys who get off to a screen too much, I'm guessing. Deluded. Most guys I know aren't like that. It's social conditioning, that's all.
> 
> *And samyeagar, sorry dude, girls are just as visual as guys*. When a guy stares like that, you know hes picturing you naked and gonna probably add it to his spank bank later. And it goes through our head "Why is this fat gross old guy staring so hard at me???" And you KNOW why. And you PICTURE it in your head for a second and it's enough to just make you feel nasty. Violated.
> 
> Yes. Because he's ugly. I'm sure you don't like ugly girls checking you out either. Ugly guys are worse though. Or maybe I'm just shallow, since most of the guys I know would cornhole a twinkie if left alone long enough.


Sorry about what? Sometimes I think I am one of the few guys here who openly acknowledges that women are just as, if not sometimes more visual than men. No question in my mind.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that most guys do what you think they do. I notice attractive women all the time. They are every where, but ask me ten seconds after I see them what color hair they had? Couldn't tell you. Even the times my STBW and I have gone to the strip clubs, couldn't tell you any details about the dancers seconds after leaving.

My STBW on the other hand...I have every square inch of her body memorized, every freckle, dimple, little mole. I could describe in detail how her breasts bounce depending on what bra she is wearing, how her legs and butt look in which pants, how the blankets fall over her body when she is sleeping, what she looks like when she stretches...


----------



## karma*girl

Kipani, I totally agree with you!

Be frickin respectful when your SO is right there with you. 
It would be a fantasy for my husband to pull me in closer & put extra focus on me when another attractive woman came into view.
He's not a gawker, but he goes ahead and looks & will look again, as if it means nothing.

Maybe it's nothing to him, but it's something to me when it's more than a quick glance. 
I'd love it if he understood that better!

When he's alone, he can look all he wants.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 45188

Wise of you Sam, most guys are deluded. Well that ticks me off, my husband forgets my body a week after we have sex. Its normal to notice someones attractive. But gawking at them is rude as hell, that's all I'm saying. Its disrespectful. Some women like it. Some women don't. 

And geez, it's probably hard for guys not to stare sometimes. Especially with all the fake around.

We've got fake nails, fake eyelashes, fake hair, 3 of my friends in their 20s have fake tits, padded bras, bras that push up your tits for cleavage, contoured jeans, they have ASS padding you can buy at the store now to make it look like you have a nice ass even if its flat as a board. fakeup (makeup), heels to contour your legs. It's ridiculous. It's sad girls need to do this, because they think men want porn stars. *Shrugs*

I understand your frustration Karma. Maybe you should dress ****ty (just a little) and smile at guys down the street. While you're with him of course. Attention from a guy is cheap if he gives it to everybody.


----------



## karma*girl

Sam- I love how you notice the details of your woman..& remember them like that. ( :
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## samyeagar

kipani said:


> Wise of you Sam, most guys are deluded. Well that ticks me off, my husband forgets my body a week after we have sex. Its normal to notice someones attractive. But gawking at them is rude as hell, that's all I'm saying. Its disrespectful. Some women like it. Some women don't.
> 
> And geez, it's probably hard for guys not to stare sometimes. Especially with all the fake around.
> 
> We've got fake nails, fake eyelashes, fake hair, 3 of my friends in their 20s have fake tits, padded bras, bras that push up your tits for cleavage, contoured jeans, they have ASS padding you can buy at the store now to make it look like you have a nice ass even if its flat as a board. fakeup (makeup), heels to contour your legs. It's ridiculous. It's sad girls need to do this, because they think men want porn stars. *Shrugs*
> 
> I understand your frustration Karma. Maybe you should dress ****ty (just a little) and smile at guys down the street. While you're with him of course. Attention from a guy is cheap if he gives it to everybody.


And I have only seen my STBW wear makeup exactly one time...our first date. She was talking about wearing some for our wedding, which we now have an official date for, and I let her know I wanted her to look like the woman I fell in love with.


----------



## 45188

That's pretty honorable of you, Sam. Many guys aren't like that. Your wife caught a good one.


----------



## Cosmos

kipani said:


> girls are just as visual as guys but WE don't stare like that. We know how it'd make our husbands feel.


:iagree:

Because we don't do it so openly, they think we don't do it all. I'm afraid if men knew what actually goes through our heads sometimes, they'd be unpleasantly surprised!


----------



## Faithful Wife

Oh no Cosmos! No way! Us wimmins?

We don't look at young, hot, tall, muscly dudes. We don't even notice that stuff! 

All we care about is money so we don't even like guys until they are like Hugh Hefner's age and wealth level.:rofl:


----------



## learning to love myself

samyeagar said:


> You know he's like that in his real actual private life? Or is that just because you imagine him that way?


Just imagination :smthumbup:


----------



## TiggyBlue

Faithful Wife said:


> Oh no Cosmos! No way! Us wimmins?
> 
> We don't look at young, hot, tall, muscly dudes. We don't even notice that stuff!


Faithful the only thing us womenz imagine is walking barefoot on the beach with them and sharing our dreams


----------



## Faithful Wife

...and then we fantasize about him murdering us. Because ya know, THAT makes sense.


----------



## TiggyBlue

Faithful Wife said:


> ...and then we fantasize about him murdering us. Because ya know, THAT makes sense.


Well that's the only way to know he's a total Alpha.


----------



## struggle

Omego said:


> Naaa, I veto them. But a resounding YES to Liam Neeson.


Wow...tough crowd lol 



learning to love myself said:


> ok yes on Liam Neeson.
> He has the manly take charge, if your a bad girl your going to get spanked thing going on


Yes ma'am


----------



## Faithful Wife

Just a note: Liam is 6'4".


----------



## Wolf1974

kipani said:


> Im not even gay but I look 2-3 times at ****ty dressed women. It makes you insecure tho when your guy checks her out. It's disrespectul. Not all guys look, at least most of them are intelligent enough to be discreet about it. Some of them are nasty though. I see *40 year* old guys checking me out all the time. It makes me feel dirty. Call me paranoid but sometimes I SWEAR I can feel them staring at my ass. I wear jeans and form fitting t shirts though, usually. I don't show cleavage.
> 
> Anyway, girls, we're just as visual as they are. Just less retarded about it.
> 
> The Sexy Lie: Caroline Heldman at [email protected] - YouTube



**** I have officially hit the age where I make women feel dirty when I look at them. Damn


----------



## Cosmos

Faithful Wife said:


> Oh no Cosmos! No way! Us wimmins?
> 
> We don't look at young, hot, tall, muscly dudes. We don't even notice that stuff!
> 
> All we care about is money so we don't even like guys until they are like Hugh Hefner's age and wealth level.:rofl:


You know _perfectly_ well, FW, that we're "not visual."


----------



## Jellybeans

struggle said:


> How about these guys?


Javier all day. Yes yes yes.


----------



## Jellybeans

kipani said:


> I see 40 year old guys checking me out all the time. It makes me feel dirty.


Really? It turns me on. Lol. 



Wolf1974 said:


> **** I have officially hit the age where I make women feel dirty when I look at them. Damn


No, you haven't. I personally have been going through an older man phase and am hella turned on by guys in their 40s (which to me is older/older than my age). 

Don't feel bad.

With that said Cosmos and Faithful are right. Women do find hot younger men, well, hot.


----------



## Wolf1974

Jellybeans said:


> Really? It turns me on. Lol.
> 
> 
> 
> No, you haven't. I personally have been going through an older man phase and am hella turned on by guys in their 40s (which to me is older/older than my age).
> 
> Don't feel bad.
> 
> With that said Cosmos and Faithful are right. Women do find hot younger men, well, hot.


Well good, I will tell my younger GF to not think of me as a dirty old man....unless that works for her :rofl:


----------



## over20

Wolf1974 said:


> **** I have officially hit the age where I make women feel dirty when I look at them. Damn


Don't feel that way...think of it as "We are also having dirty thoughts right back at you!"

I like older men, more distinguished, confident mysterious. Also I would guess they are more patient lovers. :smthumbup:


----------



## Faithful Wife

Yes, some girls will like getting looked at and look back, even if the guy is older.

But I can't tell you how many times I've been in the ladies shower room in a gym and heard young girls in their 20's saying "ugh, did you see that creepy old man who wouldn't stop looking at me even though I moved three times?" and similar. Which, yes, it is kind of unfair, if you are total eye candy, to not expect to be admired by everyone and anyone. But nevertheless, they would say these things regularly, and I have heard young women say it in so many other instances, too.

I only rarely ever heard a very young woman thinking over 40 dudes were hot.

My point is simply...some men want to tell themselves otherwise. But they don't say "well some women like us" instead the ones who believe in "sex rank" as described in MMSL, believe that all young women like the old dudes. And all old women are completely and totally worthless on the market.

So it is no wonder that the followers also say things like "don't ask a woman what she wants, she doesn't even know herself". Of course they have to say this because women don't as a rule report that they want old dudes when they themselves are young. Good reason not to ask women what they actually want...when you refuse to hear the truth.


----------



## JCD

FrenchFry said:


> I like faces with character. They are pretty, but don't catch my attention.


I had HEARD (and no, I don't have a citation) that women, IN GENERAL, tend to go with 'personalities', i.e. the woman who commented on DeCaprio as he aged. Women like 'established' personalities, which is why their hunks tend to be slightly older (more reliable? Established?)

Men like new. So while it took Sean Connery years to become whatever the hell he is to certain women, men will pick up on a Cameron Diaz and a Scarlett Johanson right out of the box. Julia Roberts gains no extra credibility because she's 'established'. 

To piggyback on FW's post on female porn watching, (and again, I apologize to AA for not having foot notes) men liked new actresses. Women liked seeing the SAME actors in different films. Once they 'liked' them, they wanted to continue with him.

Your comment on 'character' seemed to speak to that.

And knowing this tendency of men toward 'new', I get that 'new skin' would be scary to the OP as a constant temptation.

Men are NOT just their tendencies however and we can actually be trained not to screw everything that is slower than us and even not drool on the table 

Just making conversation.


----------



## JCD

Faithful Wife said:


> Soon there will be stats that show that as many women as men watch and make porn....so there'll be no more reason to debate the issue.
> 
> It was not culturally acceptable for women to use porn "back in the day". Whereas men gave their younger friends/nephews/brothers porn directly and encouraged them to use it.
> 
> Do you (any of you guys) honestly think it would not have been the same for women back then if our mothers handed it to us and encouraged the use?
> 
> As for myself...I knew where the stuff was in every home I ever entered...I went through everything looking for it. Always found it. Always used it. Starting way before puberty. All on my own, no one even had to show me or encourage me.
> 
> There are all kinds of new porn companies popping up...feminist porn...lesbian porn (different than girl-on-girl)...amateur porn...and these companies are run by and controlled by women, for women.


And when those stats come out showing you are correct, and that there is just as big a paying market for women as men in porn, I will graciously and sincerely admit you are correct and I was wrong.

They tried to do a study on young men who watched porn vs. young men who didn't.

I say 'tried' because the college they used, they could not find A SINGLE GUY, who had never looked at porn before.

I wonder if the stats are the same for women. But there is still a lot of 'cultural baggage' (as you refer to it...I call it gender preference) which may keep the numbers of female porn users low...for now. Maybe.


----------



## JCD

MaritimeGuy said:


> I asked the question with a certain incident in mind. Within a group of friends there is a woman that has a tendency to show a fair amount. She's in great shape and looks good. We were out as a group on a wine tasting tour. She was tipsy and had her shirt unbuttoned to the point most of her breasts were exposed. She caught another male friend who's quite shy staring and her and blurted out, "what are you staring at?"
> 
> My girlfriend looked at her and said, "Hey...I'm not even into breasts and I'm staring..how can you not where they're right out in the open like that?"


I am all over this post, though I tend to carry it over into other aspects of life than c*ck teasing.

For example, if a man has a nose ring with a chain to his ear, a deep purple Mohawk, a tattoo of whatever on his neck and obnoxious clothes who demands of me 'what are you looking at?!?", I'd probably respond "Obviously someone who dresses like a freak so he can shout at people."


----------



## JCD

highwood said:


> There was a girl who worked here in the office for a while and would dress to show off her surgically enhanced boobs and then complained and said she was going to file a grievance because some older guy was looking..wtf!!!!


Welcome to Man's world. Perhaps it is not as crappy as Women's World, at least to hear them describe it, but it has it's own share of obnoxious annoyances...


----------



## JCD

karma*girl said:


> Kipani,
> 
> Can you feel their eyes on you..like zoning in so strongly that you can actually feel it?
> I can sometimes & it feels kind of violating.
> 
> Yes, it's worse when the guys are already unattractive to me.
> However, if a guy IS attractive & looking, for some reason, he won't put off a creepy vibe. The good looking guys don't usually stare & ogle. They look & smile sometimes.
> They look & 'survey' the scene for sure, but they don't make themselves seem desperate.
> 
> THAT is what makes them even more attractive.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




Um...it isn't that the ugly guys are giving out a creepy vibe. 

It is that YOU are attributing a creepy vibe TO them...one which you DON'T apply to 'acceptable' guys.

It isn't the guy in this case...


----------



## JCD

Faithful Wife said:


> Even better...a few vocal guys who read books by men that tell men that women don't know what they want, so don't ask women! Oh yeah and then they tell us what we want...which is old men with money. Yep! Fer shure.


I am discussing a book discussing DOZENS of studies by scientists SOME OF THEM WOMEN (GASP) which actually...you know...STUDY WOMEN since the book is about SEX and WHAT WOMEN WANT.

Are you discussing that book or are you going on the same screed against Athol Kay again? Honestly, when he discussed flirting in front of your spouse, I got a bit disgusted by him.

HOWEVER, just as you roll your eyes at things that men dismiss as their flaws which are readily apparent to you from the outside, so to there might be more truth to some of this than you are comfortable with because you don't want to see women as anywhere near that predictable or shallow.

Welcome to the club.


----------



## Faithful Wife

JCD...can you or anyone provide any data that shows that younger women choose older men?

Because I have looked over and over...and I keep finding the same thing, which is that on average, married men and women have the woman as 4 years younger than the man. These stats keep bearing out everywhere I look.

So if it is so true that younger women in their 20's "go for" older men in their 40's, wouldn't there be a few MORE stats to prove this?

If there are such stats, I'd be so happy to see them!

It is a bell curve of course, and there are outliers on both sides...men with much older women and women with much older men.

But if this is actually what young women want...wouldn't the bell curve be shifted to where the average age spread is say, 10 years?


----------



## Faithful Wife

And no JCD, I don't try to avoid seeing women as "predictable and shallow"...I don't think they are either.

I don't think men are either.

I think MMSL is what tries to make them look predictable and shallow...but since I think the fake "science" behind it is all a bunch of crap, I don't believe what it says.

The men I've known have so much more depth and agency than the pack of ape wolves MMSL tries to describe.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

I've said it once before and I'm saying it again...LOL 

A younger woman will go for an old man if said woman has mental issues and daddy issues.



ETA for CM's comfort: I'm American and it's not typical for American girls in their twenties to go for an old man unless she's mental,wants money,wants security,or has a very low self esteem.


----------



## Faithful Wife

No SB it is because they are so HOT! 

Here's a tidbit...my H is (to me) totally smokin' hot. He is 50 and I am 46.

Yet when I was 20, if I met my H exactly as he looks now 50, I would have thought he was a gross old man! I may have thought he was good looking for an old guy, but as far as body and stuff like that I would have been "ew".

However, if I met him at his real age of 24 when I was 20, again he would have been smokin' hot to me! I have seen pics, he was smokin' hot at that age. Yumm!

Where according to MMSL, it wouldn't make a difference to me what age his body is. Riiiiight.....


----------



## Caribbean Man

The Desperate Western Men Hunting For Wives In Ukraine.

Lol, have a good look at that vid^^^ and think.

Maybe those girls Ukranie chicks are mentally ill?:rofl:

Wouldn't bother to mention Thailand ,Colombia , Phillippines and a few other well known " hotspots."

Cultural context people.


----------



## richie33

So if George Clooney checks you out it's hot but if Chris Farley checks you out it's creepy. And we are the shallow sex.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

richie33 said:


> So if George Clooney checks you out it's hot but if Chris Farley checks you out it's creepy. And we are the shallow sex.


Eh,I'd never say that. I thought Chris Farley was a cutie..for a drug addicted obnoxious actor. I kinda consider Clooney a bit of a creeper. That tired old rugged bachelor routine is really sad to me.


----------



## Jellybeans

I would take Clooney over Farley any day. Hehe.

Also, Clooney never wants to get married again so that is a massive turn on for me.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

Jellybeans said:


> I would take Clooney over Farley any day. Just saying.


----------



## Jellybeans

Caribbean Man said:


> The Desperate Western Men Hunting For Wives In Ukraine.
> 
> Maybe those girls Ukranie chicks are mentally ill?:rofl:
> 
> Wouldn't bother to mention Thailand ,Colombia , Phillippines and a few other well known " hotspots."
> 
> Cultural context people.


In those cases I'd think the men have serious issues. The women in those cases are generally just looking for citizenship to another country where they have see an opportunity for a better way of life. 

I don't think all women who like older men have issues nor do I think all older men who like younger women have issues. Some people just like what they like. One size doesn't fit all.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Totally agree one size doesn't fit all. There is so much variation in attraction. It is the "sex rank" style of "one size fits all" that is so far off base.

I know many happy couples with big age differences! Half with the woman older, and half with the man older. My BFF just recently dumped a guy who was 17 years younger than her for a guy who is only 2 years younger than her.

Apparently, some guys confuse "financial need" as "sexual attraction". Where it is easy for a woman to see another woman and know that if she is with "that guy", it must have been for money, not sexual attraction. But men seeing this think "See? Women are attracted to men with money".

The daddy issue thing is big, too. It doesn't seem to phase some men that this isn't actually attraction.


----------



## Wolf1974

ScarletBegonias said:


> I've said it once before and I'm saying it again...LOL
> 
> A younger woman will go for an old man if said woman has mental issues and daddy issues.




I have dated all over on age. I dated a woman who was 6 years older than me and youngest was 12 years younger than me. Surprisingly the one 12 years younger was the most mature of any woman I have ever been with including my x wife who was my same age. Our relationship (8 months) ended cause she moved for a career opportunity  she certainly didn't have daddy issues, I avoid those like the plague because of my x wife. We met at the wrong time in life. I didn't care about her age.

I don't pick my dates based on age, I pick them based on common interest and how they look to me. Would I date an 18 year old,very likely not, what would I have in common with that person?

I don't Think men and women are that far apart on this. At the meat market we call the gym I love to people watch. I see men and women flirt all the time. It would seem that the direct formula for creepy factor is how attractive the other person is. If a woman finds the guy attractive then she is flattered. If he is ugly or fat then it's creepy. As a guy I feel the same. When someone I find attractive is looking at me I feel good. I'm not sure anyone could guess my age by looking at me.


----------



## Jellybeans

Faithful Wife said:


> Totally agree one size doesn't fit all. There is so much variation in attraction. It is the "sex rank" style of "one size fits all" that is so far off base.
> 
> I know many happy couples with big age differences!


Oh I don't buy into that sex rank stuff either. I think it's ridiculous. All the rankings and etc are so silly to me. 

My grandpa was quite a few years older than my nan and they were together forever til he died. She said she never remarried/dated again because she knew she would never find another man as good as he was to her.


----------



## Caribbean Man

richie33 said:


> And we are the shallow sex.


It's a " human " thing.

Both sexes are shallow at times and we all have our physical preferences. 
Some are better at pretending.

When i had just started my business I once got a female HR manager fired because after I had made a successful presentation for a bid to to supply the company she represented ,she suggested that she could make things " go my way" ,after everyone left the room and gave me her call card with her personal cell number scribbled on the back and a little note hinting at sex.

She looked older than me by about 15 years at least in my estimation.
I was around 27 or 28.

I got pissed off because I felt insulted. I put much time , effort and money into my presentation.

But worse was the fact that I didn't find her attractive., at all!
Just the thought of seeing her naked repulsed me.

Most of all , I was married.

However , if she was attractive I might have been tempted a bit, that she wasn't , really pissed me off.

It's a human thing.


----------



## richie33

Caribbean Man said:


> It's a " human " thing.
> 
> Both sexes are shallow at times and we all have our physical preferences.
> Some are better at pretending.
> 
> When i had just started my business I once got a female HR manager fired because after I had made a successful presentation for a bid to to supply the company she represented ,she suggested that she could make things " go my way" ,after everyone left the room and gave me her call card with her personal cell number scribbled on the back and a little note hinting at sex.
> 
> I got pissed off because I felt insulted. I put much time , effort and money into my presentation.
> 
> But worse was the fact that I didn't find her attractive., at all!
> Just the thought of seeing her naked repulsed me.
> 
> Most of all , I was married.
> 
> However , if she was attractive I might have been tempted a bit, that she wasn't , really pissed me off.
> 
> It's a human thing.


As a man would it bother you if attractive or unattractive women leered at you? Not in the working environment but out and about in public. Sorry but it wouldn't bother me one bit. In fact it would make me feel good. Like it doesnt bother me one bit when I am out with my wife and men are breaking their neck to look at her. She is a beautiful women I expect it to happen.


----------



## JCD

Faithful Wife said:


> JCD...can you or anyone provide any data that shows that younger women choose older men?
> 
> Because I have looked over and over...and I keep finding the same thing, which is that on average, married men and women have the woman as 4 years younger than the man. These stats keep bearing out everywhere I look.
> 
> So if it is so true that younger women in their 20's "go for" older men in their 40's, wouldn't there be a few MORE stats to prove this?
> 
> If there are such stats, I'd be so happy to see them!
> 
> It is a bell curve of course, and there are outliers on both sides...men with much older women and women with much older men.
> 
> But if this is actually what young women want...wouldn't the bell curve be shifted to where the average age spread is say, 10 years?


I don't think I said that younger women are PANTING after older men. I think that women are attracted to reputation, reliability, and status...with a soupcon of looks. Men whom women have DAILY contact with get to establish these traits.

However for an actor or a stranger, women have to use mental short hand. Money, reputation and status tends to accumulate with age. If you add a superficial level of charm and some better than average looks, and I think women will be attracted, but not panting over such a man TO AN EXTENT. He still needs to be virile. (See below)

I don't have any data points and I am too damned lazy to pick up my book on female infidelity to look up the characteristics of female affair partners (if it even has that stat) Why affair partners? Because I think pure 'lust' is more engaged with an affair partner than a spouse. She doesn't need to 'depend' on an affair partner like she does a husband, so she has more latitude of choice. At least it seems to make some sense and I can probably find those stats....if I wasn't lazy.

But I will leave you with a list of names

Liam Neeson

Sam Elliot.

Sean Connery (Okay, I added that one, but damn it, he was REALLY POPULAR with women not too long ago and he's OLD)


That is a data point in itself. Two names self selected by the women on this board WITHOUT prompting. They are older. Not a stat, but suggestive. I certainly wouldn't pretend to be as certain as Athol is about such things.

I will throw in a personal anecdote.

I am in my mid forties. For decades of my life, let's say that women were not exactly lining up outside my door. However, I am not sure if it's the exercise, the age, or the new job but suddenly I have women...I hesitate to use the word 'throwing themselves' but nothing else suffices... at me. Openly MARRIED me.

I certainly would not say that women are looking for a geriatric patient as a lover. But the 40's seems to be some kind of 'sweet spot' for a man the way the 25-32 range is for women.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Jellybeans said:


> Oh I don't buy into that sex rank stuff either. I think it's ridiculous. All the rankings and etc are so silly to me.
> 
> My grandpa was quite a few years older than my nan and they were together forever til he died. She said she never remarried/dated again because she knew she would never find another man as good as he was to her.


I don't buy into the sex rank thing either, but the idea that young women aren't sexually attracted to older me is just as ridiculous.

My grandfather died when he was around 70 or.
My grandmother was in her 50's.

During that era , it was " normal" practice in the Caribbean for older men to marry much younger women


----------



## Jellybeans

Faithful Wife said:


> Apparently, some guys confuse "financial need" as "sexual attraction".
> 
> The daddy issue thing is big, too. It doesn't seem to phase some men that this isn't actually attraction.


But where does this begin/end? Is there a line? Are your referencing a woman in her 20s,say, with a man in his late 30s or 40s+? 

I was dating a man fourteen years my senior and do not have daddy issues. I wasn't dating him because of what he has (or doesn't have) nor because I want an older "father figure." I already have a father. I have a job, make my own money and own my own home. I was just seriously, genuinely and sexually attracted to him. A lot. Like I wanted to jump on him. A lot. I was even surprised myself that I was attracted to someone that much older than me as it had never happened before, or rather, at least not in the sense I would actually want to date someone. 

Now, a man who has zero job/career/drive/ambition is not someone I can get with or feel attracted to. Never has been. Because that isn't the life I know/live nor do I feel comfortable with. I prefer a man who is more aligned to my way of thinking/living.


----------



## Caribbean Man

richie33 said:


> As a man would it bother you if attractive or unattractive women leered at you? Not in the working environment but out and about in public. Sorry but it wouldn't bother me one bit. In fact it would make me feel good. Like it doesnt bother me one bit when I am out with my wife and men are breaking their neck to look at her. She is a beautiful women I expect it to happen.



No.It doesn't bother me one bit , nor my wife. 
Like I said in my first post on this thread.

That's why I question the " looking" aspect of sexual objectification.
Both sexes are visual .
Many times before, I've caught random women of all ages staring at me.
It still happens even while I'm in the gym, and I'm 44 yrs old.
It's much easier to see it there because there are mirrors all around.


----------



## Jellybeans

Caribbean Man said:


> During that era , it was " normal" practice in the Caribbean for older men to marry much younger women


And the world over. It's not exactly a new concept.


----------



## Faithful Wife

jellybean...I know that age differences in specific choices between couples varies throughout the population...and huge attraction can occur between people who have a huge age gap and it doesn't have to be due to daddy issues. 

What I am saying is that "sex rank" is a specific formula that is a totally illogical piece of crap when compared against that very real, varied stuff that happens that we are talking about.

So I pick on the "oh yeah, these young women love the old dudes so much" part of it, because that is the whole system's back bone. The system was created so that men could tell themselves this was the case.

The problem is, they say it is the case for all of us, they apply it across the board. (even though statistics do not bear it out) They also deliberately do this to "keep women down" by the constant announcing of just how unattractive the old women are. So it is their "old women are gross but old men are hot" b.s. that I am objecting to in this thread (mostly due to JCD's rants). A huge section of MMSL is devoted to telling men that they will have an easy time on the dating market but their haggy old wives will have a hard time.

But in reality...attraction is so much more inclusive and fluid than any of the ideas that are within what they call "sex rank" and my personal opinions about what causes sexual attraction are not really what I am expressing here. I am just opposing "sex rank".

Oddly enough, it is the PUA community who are the worst/meannest about a man's attraction. They are the ones who say that only 10% of males are physically hot enough to turn a woman on, and 100% of straight females are attracted to that 10%, leaving the other 90% of men needing to fill in for the attraction with money and status, and that essentially, all of us women who are with them, settled.

That - which is from PUA's, not me - is the b.s. I am opposing. It comes from the same system as "sex rank".


----------



## highwood

Jellybeans said:


> In those cases I'd think the men have serious issues. The women in those cases are generally just looking for citizenship to another country where they have see an opportunity for a better way of life.
> 
> I don't think all women who like older men have issues nor do I think all older men who like younger women have issues. Some people just like what they like. One size doesn't fit all.


They know the women are desperate for a better life and because of that are less than choosy. 

I guess in Thailand they have these sex vacations...where you pay well over $5,000.00 for a week or so at a villa and you have the company of one or two girls during that time to service you. Why do I have a feeling it is a booming business....

If you ever get a chance watch a documentary called..."My Thai Bride". Basically about an older guy who goes to Thailand and gets taken for everything he has. It is an award winning documentary.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Jellybeans said:


> But where does this begin/end? Is there a line? Are your eferencing a woman in her 20s say with a man in his late 30s or 40s+?
> 
> I was dating a man fourteen years my senior and do not have daddy issues. I wasn't dating him because of what he has (or doesn't have) nor because I want an older "father figure." I already have a father. I have a job, make my own money and own my own home. I was just seriously, genuinely and sexually attracted to him. A lot. Like I wanted to jump on him. A lot. I was even surprised myself that I was attracted to someone that much older than me as it had never happened before, or rather, not in the sense I would actually want to date someone.
> 
> *Now, a man who has zero job/drive/ambition is not someone I can get with or feel attracted to. Never has been. Because that isn't the life I know/live nor do I feel comfortable with it. I prefer a man who is more aligned to my way of thinking/living.*



*EXACTLY!^^^*

The entire sexual attraction scenario is very subjective and grey area.
Cultural context plays a huge part.

If a person want's to see raw sexual attraction at work , devoid of social constructs , just go to any sex tourism hotspot for females and have a good look at the " beach boy" scene.

There is very little research about it because it's supposed to be a secret. But thousands of European women flock to the Caribbean every year for one reason. 
Sex with young Caribbean men.

Interestingly enough , I hear there is a newer trend..
Asian women.


----------



## JCD

Faithful Wife said:


> jellybean...I know that age differences in specific choices between couples varies throughout the population...and huge attraction can occur between people who have a huge age gap and it doesn't have to be due to daddy issues.
> 
> What I am saying is that "sex rank" is a specific formula that is a totally illogical piece of crap when compared against that very real, varied stuff that happens that we are talking about.
> 
> So I pick on the "oh yeah, these young women love the old dudes so much" part of it, because that is the whole system's back bone. The system was created so that men could tell themselves this was the case.
> 
> The problem is, they say it is the case for all of us, they apply it across the board. (even though statistics do not bear it out) They also deliberately do this to "keep women down" by the constant announcing of just how unattractive the old women are. So it is their "old women are gross but old men are hot" b.s. that I am objecting to in this thread (mostly due to JCD's rants). A huge section of MMSL is devoted to telling men that they will have an easy time on the dating market but their haggy old wives will have a hard time.
> 
> But in reality...attraction is so much more inclusive and fluid than any of the ideas that are within what they call "sex rank" and my personal opinions about what causes sexual attraction are not really what I am expressing here. I am just opposing "sex rank".
> 
> Oddly enough, it is the PUA community who are the worst/meannest about a man's attraction. They are the ones who say that only 10% of males are physically hot enough to turn a woman on, and 100% of straight females are attracted to that 10%, leaving the other 90% of men needing to fill in for the attraction with money and status, and that essentially, all of us women who are with them, settled.
> 
> That - which is from PUA's, not me - is the b.s. I am opposing. It comes from the same system as "sex rank".




Just a quick question, FW.

If you were a 20 year old FW, would you prefer to be married to a 40 year old JFK or a 20 year old Bozo the Clown?

Take your time.


----------



## highwood

I find for me that a successful man is attractive so even if he does not look great I still find ambition and success outweighs that.

I know guys that are lazy and are in their 40s and have nothing to their name and no matter how good looking they were I would never go for that.


----------



## Jellybeans

*!*



Faithful Wife said:


> jellybean...I know that age differences in specific choices between couples varies throughout the population...and huge attraction can occur between people who have a huge age gap and it doesn't have to be due to daddy issues.


:iagree: Attraction is a very fluid/organic thing. It is raw in its basest sense and that is what makes it so fun.



Faithful Wife said:


> What I am saying is that "sex rank" is a specific formula that is a totally illogical piece of crap when compared against that very real, varied stuff that happens that we are talking about.
> 
> Oddly enough, it is the PUA community who are the worst/meannest about a man's attraction.
> 
> That - which is from PUA's, not me - is the b.s. I am opposing. It comes from the same system as "sex rank".


Ah I see what you are saying. But I see those as two separate things. Attraction is organic, a naturally occurring thing.

I totally think the sex rank thing is stupid. And don't get me started on on the PUA thing.It's clear those men don't care about women at all. It's a wonder how any of them get any kind of a$$ at all. LOL. 



highwood said:


> If you ever get a chance watch a documentary called..."My Thai Bride". Basically about an older guy who goes to Thailand and gets taken for everything he has. It is an award winning documentary.


I am afraid to watch that. But yeah, any guy who goes shopping for a wife in that manner, what does he EXPECT? It's a trade off -- sex for citizenship. LOL. Sad sad sad.



Caribbean Man said:


> There is very little research about it because it's supposed to be a secret. *But thousands of European women flock to the Caribbean every year for one reason.
> Sex with young Caribbean men.*


YEP! It's so true. I cannot tell you how many times I've witnessed it first hand. Hahahahahaha.


----------



## Jellybeans

highwood said:


> I find for me that a successful man is attractive so even if he does not look great I still find ambition and success outweighs that.
> 
> I know guys that are lazy and are in their 40s and have nothing to their name and no matter how good looking they were I would never go for that.


Preach, sista!


----------



## highwood

Jellybeans, in the end she took him for everything becuase he bought her a farm in the Thai countryside and he went back to the UK with $100.00 to his name. I found myself thinking in a way good for her...because he is an idiot. He could not get a date back in the UK so he went to Thailand.


----------



## Caribbean Man

The entire sexual attraction thing is a complex , subjective area.

There is no hard and fast rule that dictates a young woman cannot fall in love with a man twice her age and vice versa.

When I single , ever since my teens I was always attracted to women that were older than me , sometimes 10 years or more.

The first woman I had sex with was 10 yrs older than me . I was 16 yrs old and she didn't seduce me, I approached her for the first time, suntanning on the beach, on Christmas day, and the following days after we were at it like rabbits back in her villa.

But what I realized in hindsight is that just like I was attracted to mature women, there were women who didn't mind having a sexual relationship with a young man 10 yrs their junior.

I didn't have any " mommy issues" and I don't think they had any mental issues either.

People can sometimes be attracted to a person for different reasons at different times in their lives.

There are no hard and fast rules in the game of sexual attraction and dating.


----------



## Jellybeans

highwood said:


> Jellybeans, in the end she took him for everything becuase he bought her a farm in the Thai countryside and he went back to the UK with $100.00 to his name. I found myself thinking in a way good for her...because he is an idiot. He could not get a date back in the UK so he went to Thailand.


I mean, seriously. WHAT did he expect? It's not like any of those women they shop for marry them for LOVE.


----------



## Wolf1974

Faithful Wife said:


> jellybean...I know that age differences in specific choices between couples varies throughout the population...and huge attraction can occur between people who have a huge age gap and it doesn't have to be due to daddy issues.
> 
> What I am saying is that "sex rank" is a specific formula that is a totally illogical piece of crap when compared against that very real, varied stuff that happens that we are talking about.
> 
> So I pick on the "oh yeah, these young women love the old dudes so much" part of it, because that is the whole system's back bone. The system was created so that men could tell themselves this was the case.
> 
> The problem is, they say it is the case for all of us, they apply it across the board. (even though statistics do not bear it out) They also deliberately do this to "keep women down" by the constant announcing of just how unattractive the old women are. So it is their "old women are gross but old men are hot" b.s. that I am objecting to in this thread (mostly due to JCD's rants). A huge section of MMSL is devoted to telling men that they will have an easy time on the dating market but their haggy old wives will have a hard time.
> 
> But in reality...attraction is so much more inclusive and fluid than any of the ideas that are within what they call "sex rank" and my personal opinions about what causes sexual attraction are not really what I am expressing here. I am just opposing "sex rank".
> 
> Oddly enough, it is the PUA community who are the worst/meannest about a man's attraction. They are the ones who say that only 10% of males are physically hot enough to turn a woman on, and 100% of straight females are attracted to that 10%, leaving the other 90% of men needing to fill in for the attraction with money and status, and that essentially, all of us women who are with them, settled.
> *
> That - which is from PUA's, not me - is the b.s. I am opposing. It comes from the same system as "sex rank".[/*QUOTE]
> 
> 
> I have no idea what the sex rank is but you are right that this is complete nonsense. I have been divorced now 3 years. I have dated average women, an x model, and a fitness instructor. I am definitely not in the 10% of hot guys. I am average. I don't make a lot of money. I guess the one advantage, some of my friends say I have, is I wear a uniform to work. But since I don't hit at women at work because I wear a uniform I don't see how that helps at all. One trait I would say I have which some struggle with is confidence.
> 
> That's said I am average and I have never struggled to get a date. I'm not everyone's cup of tea and some dates are one and done, sometimes I end it sometimes them. No big deal just go out with someone new the next weekend.
> 
> Can having money be an advantage to get women, sure it can. Just like big boobs can be for women to get men. But guys who complain that they are average and don't make money so they can't get dates are the types who complain about everything. Best to avoid them all together


----------



## Faithful Wife

Caribbean Man said:


> There are no hard and fast rules in the game of sexual attraction and dating.


:iagree:


----------



## Jellybeans

Caribbean Man said:


> The entire sexual attraction thing is a complex , subjective area.
> 
> There is no hard and fast rule that dictates a young woman cannot fall in love with a man twice her age and vice versa.
> 
> When I single , ever since my teens I was always attracted to women that were older than me , sometimes 10 years or more.
> 
> I didn't have any " mommy issues" and I don't think they had any mental issues either.
> 
> There are no hard and fast rules in the game of sexual attraction and dating.


:iagree: So very much.

Haha you remind me of one of my friends. For as long as I've known him (eons) he has never ever once dated anyone his age. Ever since we were teens! He has only dated and been with older women. He'd always tell me how the ones our age were too immature for his taste and he needed a "real woman."


----------



## tornado

*Re: Re: The annoyance of ****ty looking women..*



richie33 said:


> As a man would it bother you if attractive or unattractive women leered at you? Not in the working environment but out and about in public. Sorry but it wouldn't bother me one bit. In fact it would make me feel good. Like it doesnt bother me one bit when I am out with my wife and men are breaking their neck to look at her. She is a beautiful women I expect it to happen.


I've been ogled, it doesn't bother me. Its a boost to the self esteem. I've also been stalked and approached and I have to admit that was a little weird.


----------



## Faithful Wife

JCD do you want my honest answer? Or are you just going to make your own conclusion no matter what I say?

But here's my honest answer...I'm an extremely sexual woman and I would go for which ever one made my panties wet. However at age 20, if you threw in a cute girl who wanted hot girl sex I would have picked her above the other two in a heartbeat.


----------



## Caribbean Man

highwood said:


> Jellybeans, in the end she took him for everything becuase he bought her a farm in the Thai countryside and he went back to the UK with $100.00 to his name. I found myself thinking in a way good for her...because he is an idiot. He could not get a date back in the UK so he went to Thailand.


Lol,

That's a pretty familiar story..

_" A fool and his money are soon parted..."_:rofl:

I saw another documentary where those English and Aussie guys were saying that they remain in their home country, send money back to a particular girl. 
Then they visit Thailand about two or three times per year just for sex with them.
They keep in touch via email.
So they have a " normal " dating life in England but they also have a girl in Thailand whom they have a live in sexual relationship whenever they visit.


----------



## Jellybeans

Faithful Wife said:


> But here's my honest answer...I'm an extremely sexual woman and I would go for which ever one made my panties wet.


Clowns scare the sh!t out of me so Bozo, besides the stupid name he has, would never have been an option. :rofl:


----------



## JCD

Faithful Wife said:


> JCD do you want my honest answer? Or are you just going to make your own conclusion no matter what I say?
> 
> But here's my honest answer...I'm an extremely sexual woman and I would go for which ever one made my panties wet. However at age 20, if you threw in a cute girl who wanted hot girl sex I would have picked her above the other two in a heartbeat.


If you had given me an honest answer, I would have accepted it.

Instead you seem to be weaseling out of it with generalities to avoid a choice and throwing in non given third choice to avoid conceding a point.

You had all the information you needed on 'panty wetting capability' if, as you say, women are so visual.

Yes, I am trying to score a point, but you set this up. I am asking the obvious question to your ridicule.


----------



## Jellybeans

kipani said:


> Liam neeson is sexy, JCD. Wanna know why? That Taken movie. You know, where he moves like a sexy young guy? Kills, kills, kills, it's awesome. If he's got money and VIRILITY, it's attractive but he's only sexy BECAUSE of that movie.


Liam Neeson isn't "sexy' because he "moves" like a young man. To suggest older man can't be sexy is pretty silly. 



kipani said:


> Seriously, why do you think young girls -want- old balls in their face? You think we can't find a young guy with money?
> 
> Naïve


Huh? Some women do want to be with older men. Your posts seem really naïve to think it's not possible for a younger woman to find an older man attractive. Just as a younger man may find an older woman attractive, as CaribbeanMan explained. One size doesn't fit all. The world isn't black and white especially when it comes to attraction. Just saying.


----------



## treyvion

Jellybeans said:


> Liam Neeson isn't "sexy' because he "moves" like a young man. To suggest older man can't be sexy is pretty silly.
> 
> 
> 
> Huh? Some women do want to be with older men. Your posts seem really naïve to think it's not possible for a younger woman to find an older man attractive. Just as a younger man may find an older woman attractive, as CaribbeanMan explained. One size doesn't fit all. The world isn't black and white especially when it comes to attraction. Just saying.


It IS pretty silly! Because to many the older IS MORE attractive due to other qualities than raw youth. And just cause he's older doesn't mean he's no longer in a great physical specimen.

Some men prefer older women. So your saying that's OK, but it's impossible for younger women to prefer older men?


----------



## 45188

Jellybeans, to me and girls my age, yes. He is. And that's exactly why. 

And older women prefer younger men. They're called cougars. Once again, virility. And MOST women, MOST, the vast MAJORITY of women, prefer people their own age. Every single friend of mine is married to someone their own age. 

Every
Single
One

My man is 3 years older than me. 

In fact, I don't know a single old guy young girl couple. Not one. And um, hello? I'M young. Me and my YOUNG friends talk about sex 'constantly' - Old guys are -never- brought into the equation. Channing tatum, Ian solmerholder, chris pine. That's what we're into at my age. 

You guys can keep arguing til you're blue in the face. Doesn't change reality.


----------



## Jellybeans

Well perhaps your social circle's experience only color things one way. But that still doesn't change the fact though that people are attracted too all kinds of ages, virile or not. Has been happening since the beginning of time.


----------



## Jellybeans

treyvion said:


> It IS pretty silly! Because to many the older IS MORE attractive due to other qualities than raw youth. And just cause he's older doesn't mean he's no longer in a great physical specimen.
> 
> Some men prefer older women. So your saying that's OK, but it's impossible for younger women to prefer older men?


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## 45188

Yeah, young women went with older men back when women were oppressed and actually -needed- to keep a man around so they could be taken care of. You know.. Like the ones in the ukraine and thailand. *Yawn* The middle east (insert oppressive country here) We have our own money now, so it's no wonder guys go to places where women are still so oppressed just to feel needed. But equal opportunity where I'm from baby, and where there's equal opportunity, we're banging the youngins. Maybe a quick bang with an older guy just to see what he does differently, to teach the younger guy, but that's it, with my generation. 

Anyway boys, it's not about attraction. Trust me. It's about survival. I'm just bein honest. *Shrugs*


----------



## Jellybeans

kipani said:


> Yeah, back when women were oppressed and actually -needed- to keep a man around so they could be taken care of. You know.. Like the ones in the ukraine and thailand. *Yawn* We have our own money now, so it's no wonder guys go to places where women are still so oppressed just to feel needed. But equal opportunity where I'm from baby, and where there's equal opportunity, we're banging the youngins. Maybe a quick bang with an older guy just to see what he does differently, to teach the younger guy, but that's it, with my generation.


:rofl: 

Yes, oppression is EXACTLY why women feel attraction.


----------



## 45188

Attraction? You think they're attracted to old people? I don't know, do you think betty white is hot? They're attracted to your wallet brah. They're attracted to security. It's always older guys who go to oppressive coiuntries. You think if a YOUNGER guy went the women wouldnt take HIM over the older guy? 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA


AHHAHAHAHAHAHAH

That's why wherever young woman old man couples are common it's always in a country where the women are oppressed as hell. Young guys can stay home. Where women their own age want them, Once again, where equal opportunity reigns, women go for guys their own age. All I'm sayin.

Another thing - Older women a lot of them are going to Africa for sex. They got money too.


----------



## samyeagar

kipani said:


> *Liam neeson is sexy, JCD. Wanna know why? That Taken movie. You know, where he moves like a sexy young guy? Kills, kills, kills, it's awesome. If he's got money and VIRILITY, it's attractive but he's only sexy BECAUSE of that movie. Sean Connery is gross*.
> 
> Seriously, why do you think young girls -want- old balls in their face? You think we can't find a young guy with money? You think I couldn't go to thailand or the ukraine and throw american / canadian money at those chicks and they wouldn't take a dive at my muff for it?
> 
> I mean you come across as so narrow minded man. Seriously. It's like you were raised to think a certain way and you can't get past that mindset. It's like.. Soo naive.


So you are not finding Liam Neeson sexy, you are finding the fictional character of Bryan Mills sexy...just saying'


----------



## 45188

Yeah Sam, that's right. We're like "This is a man who would move heaven and earth for his little girl" and it's hot. it's hot when a guy cares about you that much. And cares about his family that much. He could get killed, but he's selfless. And actions speak louder than words.


----------



## Jellybeans

kipani said:


> I don't know, do you think betty white is hot? They're attracted to your wallet brah.
> 
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA
> 
> 
> AHHAHAHAHAHAHAH


Betty White is 92. Your other post about Liam Neeson who is 61. Massive age difference there in your comparisons. 



kipani said:


> That's why wherever young woman old man couples are common it's always in a country where the women are oppressed as hell.


But it also happens in the United States. So then what? 



kipani said:


> Once again, where equal opportunity reigns, women go for guys their own age. All I'm sayin.


Blanket statement.


----------



## Jellybeans

samyeagar said:


> So you are not finding Liam Neeson sexy, you are finding the fictional character of Bryan Mills sexy...just saying'


No, no! Liam Neeson IS Bryan Mills.


----------



## JCD

kipani said:


> Jellybeans, to me and girls my age, yes. He is. And that's exactly why.
> 
> And older women prefer younger men. They're called cougars. Once again, virility. And MOST women, MOST, the vast MAJORITY of women, prefer people their own age. Every single friend of mine is married to someone their own age.
> 
> Every
> Single
> One
> 
> My man is 3 years older than me.
> 
> In fact, I don't know a single old guy young girl couple. Not one. And um, hello? I'M young. Me and my YOUNG friends talk about sex 'constantly' - Old guys are -never- brought into the equation. Channing tatum, Ian solmerholder, chris pine. That's what we're into at my age.
> 
> You guys can keep arguing til you're blue in the face. Doesn't change reality.


You are attributing crap to me that I never said but FW is more than free to attribute to me.

I have read Kay's book once (1). I do not agree with all of Kay's book.

The majority of people want to be married to people 'like them' and part of 'like them' is age. 

But that really avoids the statistical issue. Most young people begin f*cking around with each other in their twenties and so they hook up and marry. THAT is why most people are the same age in marriage. Four years....you mean the span of high school and college? GASP!

I never said 'young chicks groove on old balls' I DEFY FW to find a quote where I said that or even insinuated that this was the *only* dynamic.

In fact, if you check out the post in response, I laid out my philosophy quite well with a lot of caveats...which you seem to ignore in your narrow-minded decision to pigeon hole me.

You know what else is an aphrodisiac? Power. Money. Status. Men, women, chimps, birds. To deny this is ludicrous...and who holds those type of positions? Generally someone older than you.

Or did you think Monica Lewinsky was REALLY attracted to Clinton's ab? Or what about that young thing with Morgan Freeman? Or that other young thing with Kelsey Grammer? Or (GAG) that hottie with Don Imus or Larry King, or Tony Randall...

Yeah...all oppression.


----------



## 45188

He's the face of Bryan Mills. I never even knew his name in Taken. I just wanted to know who the actor was. I seen the movie like 20 times. You make blanket statements too bro. "Young women think old men are sexy" which is super, super, SUPER rare. Nah, the real truth is OLD men like YOUNG women so they have to FOOL themselves into thinking we think they're hot too. But that's just not the case. Look around at all the couples you know man. How prevalent is old man young woman? Let's be honest now, and not thinking with your emotions. Look at the cold hard facts.


----------



## Jellybeans

JCD said:


> I never said 'young chicks groove on old balls' I DEFY FW to find a quote where I said that or even insinuated that .


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: I seriously busted out laughing when I read that. Too funny, JCD. 



JCD said:


> Or did you think Monica Lewinsky was REALLY attracted to Clinton's ab?


No, no. She was attracted to his... cigar. 

And well, the only thing that was oppressed was well... :rofl:


----------



## tornado

*Re: Re: The annoyance of ****ty looking women..*



kipani said:


> Yeah Sam, that's right. We're like "This is a man who would move heaven and earth for his little girl" and it's hot. it's hot when a guy cares about you that much. And cares about his family that much. He could get killed, but he's selfless. And actions speak louder than words.


Its a good movie, but I think most loving parents would do everything in their power to save their child.


----------



## 45188

JCD said:


> You are attributing crap to me that I never said but FW is more than free to attribute to me.
> 
> I have read Kay's book once (1). I do not agree with all of Kay's book.
> 
> The majority of people want to be married to people 'like them' and part of 'like them' is age.
> 
> But that really avoids the statistical issue. Most young people begin f*cking around with each other in their twenties and so they hook up and marry. THAT is why most people are the same age in marriage. Four years....you mean the span of high school and college? GASP!
> 
> I never said 'young chicks groove on old balls' I DEFY FW to find a quote where I said that or even insinuated that this was the *only* dynamic.
> 
> In fact, if you check out the post in response, I laid out my philosophy quite well with a lot of caveats...which you seem to ignore in your narrow-minded decision to pigeon hole me.
> 
> You know what else is an aphrodisiac? Power. Money. Status. Men, women, chimps, birds. To deny this is ludicrous...and who holds those type of positions? Generally someone older than you.
> 
> Or did you think Monica Lewinsky was REALLY attracted to Clinton's ab? Or what about that young thing with Morgan Freeman? Or that other young thing with Kelsey Grammer? Or (GAG) that hottie with Don Imus or Larry King, or Tony Randall...
> 
> Yeah...all oppression.


Honestly JCD, you keep telling yourself whatever you need to. None of you have been able to even touch my points. I'd eat a girl out if she had a fat wallet, and I'm not even gay.


Question #1 - How many old man / young women couples do you know - IN A NON OPPRESSIVE COUNTRY. Not just for sex, because young girls will bang an older guy once or twice just to see what he does differently. I'm not talking about sex. People will bang ugly people if they're good in the sack. People in General. 

Question #2 - Stats plz. Stats on old man / young woman couples. If I go dancing at a club there's a lot of older women there looking to pick up younger guys, the men usually hang out in bars hoping some drunk girl is gonna go home with him.

Thats just my experience. So instead of arguing, plz. Evidence. Plz.

I don't care if you guys gang up on me. I speak the truth. You don't seem to like the truth, but the truth is the truth no matter what way you slice it.

Yeah fat monica blew bill. It wasnt about attraction. It was a chance to blow the president of the USA. She would have blown hilary too, if hilary was president. Yeah, some women are attracted to power. But only because they want to own a powerful man. It's a conquest thing. It's a "He wants me over the FIRST LADY" competition thing. You wouldn't understand.


----------



## highwood

I took a psych course a few years ago on power and status and it said on average..before I proceed please be aware that this does not mean every single woman or man, basically it stated that men as they age prefer younger women and women no matter what their age tend to be attracted to power and money in men. These are ingrained views on attraction that are generally in us. 

Again this does not apply to everyone...I remember telling someone this once and they freaked out and said it was wrong becuase they knew a woman who dated a guy with no money.


----------



## samyeagar

kipani said:


> Yeah Sam, that's right. We're like "This is a man who would move heaven and earth for his little girl" and it's hot. it's hot when a guy cares about you that much. And cares about his family that much. He could get killed, but he's selfless. And actions speak louder than words.


So a team of professional screen writers are what makes an old guy hot, and not his looks...


----------



## JCD

I named six men right off the top of my head. All old American men with young American girls.

How many more do you want?

Did you bother to READ my post?


----------



## JCD

samyeagar said:


> So a team of professional screen writers are what makes an old guy hot, and not his looks...


Don't forget the young stunt men who dress like an older man.

Oh...sorry...did you think LIAM moved like that?


----------



## 45188

Tiff: Hey guys
Tiff: How many old guy / young girl couples do you know?
Brett: define couple
Tiff: Uh.. Couple. Romantic relationship.
Jerry: I know a bunch of guys that pay for it
Adam: not very many
Brett: i know a 60/40
Adam: we had a judge in his 50's who used to let girls get off with warnings in exchange for their phone numbers
Adam: and my supervisor is 8 years younger than her husband

Welp thats the scope of my 20 something year old friends views..


----------



## Jellybeans

Highwood - That psych example is probably rooted in the biological theory about survival of the fittest/males spreading seeds to maintain their familiar lineage/and women protecting what's theirs in order to ensure security for their children. 

And your friend dating the non-money-having guy: it does happen. Just as a younger man may only take up with older women cause he finds them way more attractive than younger women.

And that's just it: the world is full of so many different kinds of situations. Older and younger. Younger and Younger. Older and older. Clown and Barbie. That is what makes it so fun. Attraction is NUTS and can't really ben explained or quantified. It is what it is. My grandma married my much older grandpa and they worked just fine. My aunt married my younger uncle and they are just fine (I guess he was feeling oppressed? Or was she? They live in the United States--the land of non-oppression). I personally think Willem Dafoe is fine as hell. He's older and I would, totally. I have a friend who thinks he looks like Gollum. See? One size doesn't fit all.


----------



## JCD

kipani said:


> Welp thats the scope of my 20 something year old friends views..


And probably the scope of their world experience.

They probably wouldn't recognize half the names of the people I *already mentioned.*

And what part of 'thinks status, money and power' are sexy did you think had nothing to do with...um...status, money and power?

OF COURSE THERE IS MONEY INVOLVED. THAT IS WHAT THESE WOMEN ARE INTERESTED IN. Maybe not in itself. But as part of the equation.


----------



## 45188

*Shrugs* Its global though. Like you wouldn't think a chick with a ton of money was hot? Or would you bang her for the money? 

Im just saying on average. 

Old guys = Want young women. 
Young women = Want young men. 
Older women = want younger guys. 
Greedy / oppressed people = want stuff. 

You still didnt answer my questions  Im not even talking about celebs like Demi and Ashton. I mean in the real world, in real life, how many do you personally know. And since you didn't answer, not once, but twice, i'll assume it means you don't know any. Anyway, I'm done here.

People bang horses for money. Doesn't mean the horse is sexy.


----------



## always_alone

JCD said:


> And what part of 'thinks status, money and power' are sexy did you think had nothing to do with...um...status, money and power?


Money, status, power might be *desirable*, but it doesn't follow from that they are *sexy*. There's a huge difference. KWIM?

A mistake to confuse the two, IMHO. Bound to lead to disappointment.

Or not, if you don't care to look beneath the surface.


----------



## JCD

always_alone said:


> Money, status, power might be *desirable*, but it doesn't follow from that they are *sexy*. There's a huge difference. KWIM?
> 
> A mistake to confuse the two, IMHO. Bound to lead to disappointment.


You have something of a point.

However, allow me to agree with a caveat. Mr. Jones may not seem 'sexy' in a totally physical way...but EVERYONE at his business jumps at his word...and some of them not because they are 20 year old Elmo's, but substantial men of respect in their own right.

And this guy thinks nothing of dropping 50 large to fly you to Davos or Dubai...because OTHER people are paying to have him there on a private plane.

This is heady stuff. Not exactly 'tight buns' sexy...but very attractive...to some women.


----------



## samyeagar

kipani said:


> *Shrugs* Its global though. Like you wouldn't think a chick with a ton of money was hot? Or would you bang her for the money?
> 
> Im just saying on average.
> 
> Old guys = Want young women.
> Young women = Want young men.
> Older women = want younger guys.
> Greedy / oppressed people = want stuff.
> 
> You still didnt answer my questions  Im not even talking about celebs like Demi and Ashton. I mean in the real world, in real life, how many do you personally know. And since you didn't answer, not once, but twice, i'll assume it means you don't know any. Anyway, I'm done here.
> 
> People bang horses for money. Doesn't mean the horse is sexy.


Money and power for me has no real bearing on my attraction to a woman.

About the real life couples you asked for, the problem is, when a man acquires enough money and power, he reaches celeb status, even if he is not plastered all over the screen, so asking for real life couples, you are effectively asking for couples MINUS the money and power when it is being argued that money and power are large contributors in attraction.


----------



## samyeagar

kipani said:


> And here I thought my powerful, aggressive personality was why guys found me hot. SIGH!


Nope. It's your jeans, and form fitting t's.


----------



## always_alone

JCD said:


> This is heady stuff. Not exactly 'tight buns' sexy...but very attractive...to some women.


The fact that someone is happy to accept a plane ticket to an adventure says very little about that person's level of attraction. Even if she's willing to pay in sexual currency.

I'm always amused when men think that the act of sex actually means there is sexual attraction, desire, or any sort of warm and friendly feelings. Seems to me they should know better.


----------



## MaritimeGuy

A few women here said they feel creeped out when an older unattractive guy blatantly checks them out. That differs from my experience being checked out by unattractive women. As shallow as this sounds, I feel sympathy more than repulsion. As in, "sorry...you could have the nicest personality in the world but I would never be interested."


----------



## 45188

Same for me Maritime. Its creepy because they're gross looking and I don't even want to be in their fantasies or pictured naked. Like it literally disgusts me / creeps me out. It's like DREAM ON! Lol and oh my god, the man boobs. Who would be attracted to a guy who needs a bra?


----------



## MaritimeGuy

kipani said:


> And here I thought my powerful, aggressive personality was why guys found me hot. SIGH!


You're definately a real firecracker!  

I'm enjoying hearing your opinion.


----------



## Jellybeans

kipani said:


> People bang horses for money. Doesn't mean the horse is sexy.


I'd hardly compare beastiality to human relationships.


----------



## samyeagar

MaritimeGuy said:


> A few women here said they feel creeped out when an older unattractive guy blatantly checks them out. That differs from my experience being checked out by unattractive women. *As shallow as this sounds*, I feel sympathy more than repulsion. As in, "sorry...you could have the nicest personality in the world but I would never be interested."


I wish people would stop using apologetic language for what they find attractive, and I wish the word 'shallow' didn't have such a strong negative connotation. I make no apologies for what I find attractive, and what attracts me to a woman.

I am very fortunate in that I am one of those 'old guys' that if I had a team of screen writers to create a mythos around me, I'd have young chicks thinking I'm hot too...as long as they didn't find out I am only 5'7"


----------



## Jellybeans

MaritimeGuy said:


> A few women here said they feel creeped out when an older unattractive guy blatantly checks them out.


The only times I feel creeped out when being checked out is if it's by a CREEPER. LOL. So a man can be unattractive and checking me out and it doesn't make me feel icky. It's still flattering. But a creeper is a whole 'nother story.


----------



## Wolf1974

kipani said:


> *Shrugs* Its global though. Like you wouldn't think a chick with a ton of money was hot? Or would you bang her for the money?
> 
> Im just saying on average.
> 
> Old guys = Want young women.
> Young women = Want young men.
> Older women = want younger guys.
> Greedy / oppressed people = want stuff.
> 
> You still didnt answer my questions  Im not even talking about celebs like Demi and Ashton. I mean in the real world, in real life, how many do you personally know. And since you didn't answer, not once, but twice, i'll assume it means you don't know any. Anyway, I'm done here.
> 
> People bang horses for money. Doesn't mean the horse is sexy.


Ok so numbers. 10 friends who are in relationships, married or LTR. One has a wife older than him by a year, I had to use Facebook to figure that one out, one has a wife who is just younger than him by 6 months so we will call it same age. The remaining 8 all the men are with younger women, including myself, by at least 5 years. The most extreme is 10 year age difference. So by your thinking none of these women at attracted to their older husbands and boyfriends? Really??????

I give leeway to someone in their 20's with a limited world view but you can't possibly be this naive ! You apply your limited social circle to the whole world???


----------



## treyvion

kipani said:


> Yeah, young women went with older men back when women were oppressed and actually -needed- to keep a man around so they could be taken care of. You know.. Like the ones in the ukraine and thailand. *Yawn* The middle east (insert oppressive country here) We have our own money now, so it's no wonder guys go to places where women are still so oppressed just to feel needed. But equal opportunity where I'm from baby, and where there's equal opportunity, we're banging the youngins. Maybe a quick bang with an older guy just to see what he does differently, to teach the younger guy, but that's it, with my generation.
> 
> Anyway boys, it's not about attraction. Trust me. It's about survival. I'm just bein honest. *Shrugs*


So your saying Shermar Moore, Tyson Bekford, LL Cool J, Denzel Washington couldn't have women 10-20 years younger than them who are mesmerized and highly attracted, and also think they are getting a deal on an older experienced guy whose also a hunk?


----------



## highwood

I don't think that all young women want just young guys...as well older women want younger guys no not necessarily.

I am 45 and would have no desire to be with a guy younger than 40 To me a guy my age or even up to 10 years older would be fine.


----------



## 45188

treyvion said:


> So your saying Shermar Moore, Tyson Bekford, LL Cool J, Denzel Washington couldn't have women 10-20 years younger than them who are mesmerized and highly attracted, and also think they are getting a deal on an older experienced guy whose also a hunk?



More celebs.. here Ill name some celebs too. 
Lorraine Bracco . . . Jason Cipolla Edith Piaf . . . Theo Sarapo
Helena Rubenstein . . . Prince Artchil Gourielli-Tchkonia Norma Shearer ,Martin Arrounge, Dinah Shore , Burt Reynolds Elizabeth Taylor ,Larry Fortensky , Demi Moore . . . Ashton Kutcher.

These are all much older women with much younger men btw. I was just speaking in generalizations. But honestly, ask other young girls. Ask them in real life. The ones who go for older men are raritys. *Shrugs* Not the norm.

I think we could all bang someone younger than us. Much younger, if we wanted to. Cougars are as common as old man gawkers. If you were 18 in a club and a 35 year old woman came up to you and propositioned you, you'd probably go with her. But in general, I named the NORM of ages of attraction.

You named a rarity.


----------



## Jellybeans

treyvion said:


> So your saying Shermar Moore, Tyson Bekford, LL Cool J, Denzel Washington couldn't have women 10-20 years younger than them who are mesmerized and highly attracted, and also think they are getting a deal on an older experienced guy whose also a hunk?


No, no. Those men are all UGLY OLD MEN who only get sought after by the oppressed! 



highwood said:


> I don't think that all young women want just young guys...as well older women want younger guys no not necessarily.


Exactly.


----------



## tornado

I know some cases where young women are married to much older guys. Its not the norm but it is out there. I wouldn't have a problem being with a older woman either. Attractive is attractive.


----------



## 45188

You're pretty disrespectful and ignorant jellybeans. A lot of your comments aren't even necessary and don't contribute anything to the conversation.

Marriage Myth Busted: Women Not Looking for Sugar Daddies | LiveScience

I suppose we should all educate ourselves with this.

http://jezebel.com/5857933/insecurity-invisibility-and-the-reason-older-men-want-to-date-you


----------



## samyeagar

Would McDonalds Fry Guy Liam Neeson be as hot as Bryan Mills Liam Neeson?


----------



## Jellybeans

How are my posts disrespectful? I am posting on this thread just as you are.  I think your comments are pretty ignorant and naïve. Using one paintbrush to speak for everyone/all women and claiming that women only want to be with or are only attracted to older men because they are oppressed is pretty silly. Attraction comes in all forms, at all ages. One person's Adonis may be someone's Medusa. At any age.


----------



## Faithful Wife

JCD...you give me the choice between the (at the time) most powerful man on earth, and bozo the clown, and expect me to take your question "seriously". :scratchhead:

And then when I do give you my honest answer, you ignore it and attack me.

Yeah, that's some good debate skills you've got there.

Here I will qualify my honest answer...given the completely irrelevant nature of your question (because in reality, I would be picking a normal man about 4 years older than me in my own community and average wealth level, not one of two ridiculous extremes) then I demand one ridiculous caveat.

Let me see them both naked and bozo without makeup. Then I will pick. Because the answer is the same: I'd pick the one who was most likely to make my panties wet, which is something I have no way of knowing right now. I don't know, maybe bozo it a hottie under the make up? Maybe he has a 9 incher? And JFK...personally, I think he is handsome but he doesn't do much for me and most certainly wouldn't have to my 20 y/o self.


----------



## 45188

I didn't say all women jellybeans. I said most women. The MAJORITY of women. Women that are the NORM.  So uh jellybeans, once again, in your real life experience, how many young women / old guy couples do you know? I'm assuming you probably just know old guys who PAY for sex with younger women. And if ya pay for it, it don't count!

Actually sam.. no. If Liam was just liam and not bryan, Id see him more as a papa than attractive.


----------



## Jellybeans

kipani said:


> I'm assuming you probably just know *old guys who PAY for sex with younger women.* And if ya pay for it, it don't count!


How incredibly insulting to men. I mean really. To suggest that they have to PAY for sex because a woman may be younger? Really? 

I know plenty of real-life couples were the man is older than the woman. I see it every day. You also said oppressed women are the ones going after older dudes. Uh, there are tons of NON-oppressed women who are attracted to and married to/partenered with older men. To think this doesn't happen is mind-boggling.


----------



## 45188

Yeah pretty much. But its true. I mean you guys just name rich celebrities as examples, so.. Celebs paying her one way or another. *wink* Bill bought fat monica stuff too. Too bad he risked it all for sex coz he wanted to bang a younger woman while she probably just liked the gucci bags he bought her.


----------



## samyeagar

kipani said:


> I didn't say all women jellybeans. I said most women. The MAJORITY of women. Women that are the NORM.  So uh jellybeans, once again, in your real life experience, how many young women / old guy couples do you know? I'm assuming you probably just know old guys who PAY for sex with younger women. And if ya pay for it, it don't count!
> 
> *Actually sam.. no. If Liam was just liam and not bryan, Id see him more as a papa than attractive*.


This is the answer I expected you to give. When it comes to old guys attracting younger women, it's not about the visual so much as it is the persona, real or perceived.


----------



## Jellybeans

kipani said:


> But its true. I mean you guys just name rich celebrities as examples, so.. Celebs paying her one way or another. *wink* *Bill bought fat monica stuff too. *


Oh boy.


----------



## ConanHub

kipani said:


> You're pretty disrespectful and ignorant jellybeans. A lot of your comments aren't even necessary and don't contribute anything to the conversation.
> 
> Marriage Myth Busted: Women Not Looking for Sugar Daddies | LiveScience
> 
> I suppose we should all educate ourselves with this.
> 
> The Real Reason Why Older Men Want To Date You


Chill out. JB is pretty cool. Stop drinking vinegar and try some honey.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## samyeagar

kipani said:


> Yeah pretty much. But its true. I mean you guys just name rich celebrities as examples, so.. Celebs paying her one way or another. *wink* Bill bought fat monica stuff too. Too bad he risked it all for sex coz he wanted to bang a younger woman while she probably just liked the gucci bags he bought her.


Oh that sounds an awful lot like prostitution...


----------



## 45188

Yeah sam, personality means a lot in a guy. Just like with women, whats hot is hot. Looks alone, no, not hot.

What makes you beautiful is personality. You find a womans personality extremely powerful and attractive too. The more you learn about her, the more you like. Its the same with us.

Oh as for prostitutes? I had a friend who hooked but she just was bored and married. Her husband was okay with it, in fact he drove her to the places. She got money and she got the variety she craved. Good on her. To each their own. Yada yada yada.


----------



## Jellybeans

samyeagar said:


> Oh that sounds an awful lot like prostitution...


She was a wh0re! Who probably wore slvtty clothing, like this thread title calls. Hehehehe. And she was FAT, too. Evil evil woman who probably was oppressed (by the cigars) and Bill's... um, nevermind.


----------



## karma*girl

To be clear, as far as older guys go (I'm 35) - if they are looking for second or simply noticing me & then look away- that does not bother me, even if they are UNattractive.

It's the guys who look intensely at me that make me feel violated & that in itself makes them creepy, to me. For some reason, they usually tend to be not great looking. 

It's not that I place a creepy attribute on them first & just decide, oh, that guy is creepy.

It's a FEELING a woman gets, like I said, probably an intuition that is inside us, for safety purposes, that gives us the sense that something uncomfortable or creepy is going on.

Truthfully it doesn't matter what a guy (or person in general) looks like, the way they are towards you is what makes them creepy. 

Most women have experienced this & will know what I mean.
...maybe even some guys have too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jellybeans

karma*girl said:


> It's the guys who look intensely at me that make me feel violated & that in itself makes them creepy, to me. For some reason, they usually tend to be not great looking.
> 
> It's a FEELING a woman gets, like I said, probably an intuition that is inside us, for safety purposes, that gives us the sense that something uncomfortable or creepy is going on.
> 
> Most women have experienced this & will know what I mean.
> ...maybe even some guys have too.


:iagree:


----------



## 45188

Jellybeans said:


> She was a wh0re! Who probably wore slvtty clothing, like this thread title calls. Hehehehe. And she was FAT, too. Evil evil woman who probably was oppressed (by the cigars) and Bill's... um, nevermind.



Riiiiiiiiiiight. Women are no more monogamous than men are, buddy. We're just taught to be and shamed if we show our real faces. Called *****s, ****s. Most of my girlfriends have been with over 15 guys, easily. We're all in our 20s. Oh.. And they weren't old - they were our age. And hot.


http://images2.fanpop.com/image/pho...-event-ian-somerhalder-13972537-1693-2500.jpg this sam, is hot no matter what kind of personality he has. But if he had a boring personality, he'd be a **** and chuck. 

*Shrugs*

See, you old guys are blessed. Women of your time are honorable, respectful, supportive. They lift you up, they're not selfish, they're understanding. Women of my time however.. Are not. 

We're just like you. Tell your sons to enjoy.


----------



## samyeagar

kipani said:


> Yeah sam, personality means a lot in a guy. Just like with women, whats hot is hot. Looks alone, no, not hot.
> 
> What makes you beautiful is personality. You find a womans personality extremely powerful and attractive too. The more you learn about her, the more you like. Its the same with us.
> 
> Oh as for prostitutes? I had a friend who hooked but she just was bored and married. Her husband was okay with it, in fact he drove her to the places. She got money and she got the variety she craved. Good on her. To each their own. Yada yada yada.


And this is one of the big differences between a lot of men and a lot of women. A lot of men don't need to create a persona around a woman to find her attractive. Though I don't personally find her attractive, McDonalds fry girl Taylor Swift will be just as attractive as Singer celeb Taylor Swift to an awful lot of men.


----------



## 45188

So your STBWs personality has absolutely no bearing on your attraction to her? *Shrugs* My personality is very attractive to my husband. When I play hard to get, he comes barking. Sexy is sexy. Challenge is sexy. Winning is sexy. Ohh and I bang the **** out of him when he takes a shower. That chest. That ass. UNF!


----------



## Faithful Wife

I don't need a personality at all...I can get hot just from the looks and body. And really, nothing else will substitute for "that" type of "hot"...for me, at least. So sam...it isn't "just guys" who are like that. Many women are, too. I can be "hot" for someone without "liking" them at all.

But many women won't say this out loud.

(but I am not speaking for all women...just the one's like me who have a certain physical/sexual level of attraction that is very defined)

As for a choice in partner...I have to be hot for them AND like them. 

But wet panties are a different story.


----------



## Faithful Wife

kipani...Just FYI...jellybeans is a woman.


----------



## samyeagar

kipani said:


> Riiiiiiiiiiight. Women are no more monogamous than men are, buddy. We're just taught to be and shamed if we show our real faces. Called *****s, ****s. Most of my girlfriends have been with over 15 guys, easily. We're all in our 20s. Oh.. And they weren't old - they were our age. And hot.
> 
> 
> http://images2.fanpop.com/image/pho...-event-ian-somerhalder-13972537-1693-2500.jpg this sam, is hot no matter what kind of personality he has. But if he had a boring personality, he'd be a **** and chuck.
> 
> *Shrugs*
> 
> See, you old guys are blessed. Women of your time are honorable, respectful, supportive. They lift you up, they're not selfish, they're understanding. Women of my time however.. Are not.
> 
> We're just like you. Tell your sons to enjoy.


I disagree with your absolutes here. I for one do not fit with much of what you have described.


----------



## 45188

They did a study on what women find hot, and they made them watch all kinds of stuff.. Diff types of Porn, bestiality, the women all wrote it didn't turn them on, but the computer sensed it DID turn them on. It's **** shaming. There's always going to be exceptions, Sam.


----------



## samyeagar

Faithful Wife said:


> I don't need a personality at all...I can get hot just from the looks and body. And really, nothing else will substitute for "that" type of "hot"...for me, at least. *So sam...it isn't "just guys" who are like that. Many women are, too. I can be "hot" for someone without "liking" them at all.*
> 
> But many women won't say this out loud.
> 
> (but I am not speaking for all women...just the one's like me who have a certain physical/sexual level of attraction that is very defined)
> 
> As for a choice in partner...I have to be hot for them AND like them.
> 
> But wet panties are a different story.


Oh you know I agree with this entirely FW, but kipani laid out a very nice case against it.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

JCD said:


> You know what else is an aphrodisiac? Power. Money. Status. Men, women, chimps, birds. To deny this is ludicrous...and who holds those type of positions? Generally someone older than you.
> 
> Or did you think Monica Lewinsky was REALLY attracted to Clinton's ab? Or what about that young thing with Morgan Freeman? Or that other young thing with Kelsey Grammer? Or (GAG) that hottie with Don Imus or Larry King, or Tony Randall...
> 
> Yeah...all oppression.


 I'm just a country girl... status, power and money mean far less to me over good looks, romance and finding a soul mate to grow old with.... I'd rather live in a shack with a hottie & Passion... 

I have never been attracted to older men ...not in my 20s, 30's , or 40's ....an older man would never be able to keep up with me for one...not when us women hit our 40's......I was wishing my husband was 20 yrs younger.....I hate how a man's sex drive slows down, that's just not fun....I found it darn frustrating, maddening...Thank God for some Viagra..probably saved our marriage...and he's just 3 yrs older than me)... 

When I see younger women with older man......I can't help but think (and I know it's not always true -don't jump on me...as I am looking out of my own perception & feelings )...that these women are sacrificing passion for money/ status, a lifestyle... I guess it's all in what you want in life...what makes you happy..

I just don't understand it..I wouldn't care if you could shop till you drop, a life of pure luxury...and parties... I'd still be checking out YOUNGER MEN...more my age if I was one of those women...that's just being honest..

And Demi Moore...I would NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS do what she is doing..those young hotties will ALL LEAVE HER in the dust and probably would like to do her daughters.....she's just setting herself up for another HUGE fall and fits of jealousy when they move on to younger meat...and her memories will torment her...those men are just for a season.. if we can handle that, it's all good.... but I wouldn't like it ...at all..

I am the type that treasures the idea of growing old with someone... feeling on an equal scale with them...same generation, grew up with similar experiences to share...just seems a better FIT to me...

...I even prefer the pretty boy look over the more distinguished hollywood men...I'd still want one within 7 yrs up or down - anything more and I'd feel is pushing it.....kinda my own code of age ethics...it would be very  to meet someone really compatible though and the ages were way off... I just think it invites too much unbalance to a relationship.. one could end up an early caretaker, parenting alone...the other loosing attraction.. the sex life dries up...just to name some of the marital strains.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Faithful Wife said:


> I don't need a personality at all...I can get hot just from the looks and body. And really, nothing else will substitute for "that" type of "hot"...for me, at least. So sam...it isn't "just guys" who are like that. Many women are, too. I can be "hot" for someone without "liking" them at all.


I agree with this EXCEPT I can't actively DISlike someone and find them hot. Small distinction perhaps.



> But many women won't say this out loud.


I don't know that it is a matter of simply saying out loud (as with admitting). I think that there is a lot of social expectation (which I think is too bad!) around females as gatekeepers and men as unaccountable predators that make some women really strongly fear being JUST valued for the looks or sexual attractiveness. Thus they would not want to be accused or feel themselves guilty of same.



> (but I am not speaking for all women...just the one's like me who have a certain physical/sexual level of attraction that is very defined)
> 
> As for a choice in partner...I have to be hot for them AND like them.
> 
> But wet panties are a different story.


Yup.


----------



## samyeagar

kipani said:


> So your STBWs personality has absolutely no bearing on your attraction to her? *Shrugs* My personality is very attractive to my husband. When I play hard to get, he comes barking. Sexy is sexy. Challenge is sexy. Winning is sexy. Ohh and I bang the **** out of him when he takes a shower. That chest. That ass. UNF!


For sure her personality has a lot to do with the deepening and ongoing attraction, but I don't think we would have gotten this far if I wasn't absolutely physically attracted to her as well.

This is the beauty of attraction and what makes us all different, and why we can all find that someone for ourselves...see, for me, playing hard to get does nothing, probably because every woman I wanted to bed, I did with minimal effort, and that is also likely why using sex as currency with me doesn't work either.


----------



## Jellybeans

kipani said:


> Riiiiiiiiiiight. Women are no more monogamous than men are, buddy. We're just taught to be and shamed if we show our real faces. Called *****s, ****s. Most of my girlfriends have been with over 15 guys, easily. We're all in our 20s. Oh.. And they weren't old - they were our age. And hot..


My post previous to this was entirely sarcastic, actually. 



kipani said:


> See, you old guys are blessed. *Women of your time* are honorable, respectful, supportive. They lift you up, they're not selfish, they're understanding. Women of my time however.. Are not.


Huh? Some of the horniest people I know are women and older and on TAM. Just saying. That post is a little ageist.



Faithful Wife said:


> kipani...Just FYI...jellybeans is a woman.


So I've heard. LOL. You put a smile on my face, Faithful.


----------



## samyeagar

Jellybeans said:


> My post previous to this was entirely sarcastic, actually.
> 
> 
> 
> *Huh? Some of the horniest people I know are women and older and on TAM. Just saying. That post is a little ageist*.
> 
> 
> 
> So I've heard. LOL. You put a smile on my face, Faithful.


I think that was a shot at me


----------



## Jellybeans

But older women can be horny tooooooooooooooooooooooooo! 

(And men can toooooooooooooooo!) Old people want to get laid too (as well as the young'uns). Hahahaha.


----------



## Wolf1974

kipani said:


> I didn't say all women jellybeans. I said most women. The MAJORITY of women. Women that are the NORM.  So uh jellybeans, once again, in your real life experience,* how many young women / old guy couples do you know*? I'm assuming you probably just know old guys who PAY for sex with younger women. And if ya pay for it, it don't count!
> 
> Actually sam.. no. If Liam was just liam and not bryan, Id see him more as a papa than attractive.


Well I listed 8 personally that I know with a min age gap of 5 years. Guess that doesn't count cause it doesn't back your point huh.

And no none of us are rich by any means.


----------



## 45188

5 years is pretty much same generation man. I'm talking like 20 years.


----------



## samyeagar

kipani said:


> 5 years is pretty much same generation man. I'm talking like 20 years.


Please oh please don't move the goal posts...


----------



## 45188

Lol fine!


----------



## Faithful Wife

Sorry sam...I have to jump in...4 years is the average age diff between couples, the man being older. And this age diff does not create the "older man" dynamic that was being discussed earlier. So I agree with kipani on that.

But also...she is giving her own opinion, which I think is very valuable for men to read...because any older guy who wants to tell himself that somehow magically, he will be "hot" to young women, needs to hear young women themselves and their opinions about that. (oh right..."don't ask a woman what she wants, they don't even know themselves...we tell them what they want". and as you know, that isn't directed at YOU...it is directed to the men who want to believe "sex rank" as described by MMSL).


----------



## Faithful Wife

Sam said: "For sure her personality has a lot to do with the deepening and ongoing attraction, but I don't think we would have gotten this far if I wasn't absolutely physically attracted to her as well."

Right, and I totally agree.

But sadly...a lot of very vocal men here insist that the kind of physical/sexual attraction that you say was needed to "get this far", doesn't apply to women. But for many of us women, it absolutely DOES matter....regardless of what those dudes tell themselves.

Oh she's not hot for me? No matter. She likes my car and my money, that will make her hot.

Um, no.

There is a diff.

If she is hot for him without the money or car, then it is "real" and we can compare oranges to oranges.

There are not double standards in nature.


----------



## samyeagar

Just a funny observation in my own life that is sort of along the lines of this...

I am almost 42 and my ex-wife is 37. The straw that broke the marriage completely was when she cheated on me with a guy almost ten years older than I am. She is also NPD, and he was a better supply than me. They are still together. My STBW ex-husband is almost ten years older than me as well. My STBW is almost 39...so it went like this...

I traded in for an older model. STBW traded in for a younger model.
My Ex wife traded in for an older model...

No sure how any of that really applies here...


----------



## tornado

I know women who have great personalities, but I wouldn't have sex with them. On the other side of that coin Know women who I would rather not hear their voices at all but their definitely doable.


----------



## samyeagar

Faithful Wife said:


> Sam said: "For sure her personality has a lot to do with the deepening and ongoing attraction, but I don't think we would have gotten this far if I wasn't absolutely physically attracted to her as well."
> 
> Right, and I totally agree.
> 
> *But sadly...a lot of very vocal men here insist that the kind of physical/sexual attraction that you say was needed to "get this far", doesn't apply to women. But for many of us women, it absolutely DOES matter....regardless of what those dudes tell themselves.*
> 
> Oh she's not hot for me? No matter. She likes my car and my money, that will make her hot.
> 
> Um, no.
> 
> There is a diff.
> 
> If she is hot for him without the money or car, then it is "real" and we can compare oranges to oranges.
> 
> There are not double standards in nature.


Why the hell do you think I try and keep as close to my 20 year old swimmer and gymnast body as I can?


----------



## Faithful Wife

To the OP...I'm sorry we jacked your thread.

I would suggest that you nicely but firmly tell him to stop with the denying he is doing it, that you both know he is, that you understand it is nature but ask him to please curb the behavior when he is with you. Over time if you keep asking him fairly and nicely, I bet he will kick this habit.


----------



## MaritimeGuy

karma*girl said:


> It's a FEELING a woman gets, like I said, probably an intuition that is inside us, for safety purposes, that gives us the sense that something uncomfortable or creepy is going on._Posted via Mobile Device_


That makes sense. 

An unattractive women checking me out is not perceived by me to be a threat...as in I have no fear of her overpowering me physically.

On the other had for a woman a guy checking her out inappropriately could turn out to be a threat. It makes sense to have some sort of radar for that even if it's subconcious.


----------



## Faithful Wife

samyeagar said:


> Why the hell do you think I try and keep as close to my 20 year old swimmer and gymnast body as I can?


Because you're on the Sex God list.


----------



## 45188

I've dated guys who stared. Dumped em. I've dated guys who respected me and kept their eyes to themselves. Stayed longer. I've stared. It made the guys I was dating insecure. Now I don't stare because I see it for what it is. Disrespect. A message.

Whoever says human nature this and that is utterly ignorant. Monogamy isn't human nature either. It's also a choice.

Maritime, you know, you're right. I call those guys "Rape eyes" - I wouldn't be creeped out if they were no threat.


----------



## Wolf1974

Faithful Wife said:


> Sorry sam...I have to jump in...4 years is the average age diff between couples, the man being older. And this age diff does not create the "older man" dynamic that was being discussed earlier. So I agree with kipani on that.
> 
> But also...she is giving her own opinion, which I think is very valuable for men to read...because any older guy who wants to tell himself that somehow magically, he will be "hot" to young women, needs to hear young women themselves and their opinions about that. (oh right..."don't ask a woman what she wants, they don't even know themselves...we tell them what they want". and as you know, that isn't directed at YOU...it is directed to the men who want to believe "sex rank" as described by MMSL).


Ok well this is not what was presented by her at all originally. She made a comment about 40 being old. Fine she won't think that so much when she gets to this age lol. I am almost 40. Considered old by some, could care less. 

Then she went on and on about how no younger women wanted older guys lol. Couldn't find them attractive and so on. That's just not true since every woman I have had a relationship with was younger. Youngest was 26 I was 38 at the time. 

Now if we are changing the focus to say a 20 year old woman likely wouldn't be attracted to say a 50 year old guy without a host of daddy issues or him having money, status, power or whatever then fine I have no issues with that. Yes I would say that is very rare. That was NOT what was first indicated.


----------



## MaritimeGuy

It seems most people are in agreement that noticing attractive people of the opposite sex is normal...however it's disrespectful to do it openly when you're with your partner. 

I guess the trick is where is the line? I may think I'm being discrete but to my partner it may be blatantly obvious I'm checking out that other woman.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Wolf...earlier in the thread, we were talking about much larger age diff's than 4-5 years. That much is average.

The MMSL/"sex rank" figures are about a 15 year age diff, and they tell men they can "expect" this. That is where it started.


----------



## treyvion

kipani said:


> I've dated guys who stared. Dumped em. I've dated guys who respected me and kept their eyes to themselves. Stayed longer. I've stared. It made the guys I was dating insecure. Now I don't stare because I see it for what it is. Disrespect. A message.
> 
> Whoever says human nature this and that is utterly ignorant. Monogamy isn't human nature either. It's also a choice.
> 
> Maritime, you know, you're right. I call those guys "Rape eyes" - I wouldn't be creeped out if they were no threat.


You think if you are entranced by your man's physical shape and staring that it would be disrespectful for him? It would be a hell of an ego booster.


----------



## Jellybeans

Wolf1974 said:


> Ok well this is not what was presented by her at all originally. She made a comment about *40 being old.* Fine she won't think that so much when she gets to this age lol.* I am almost 40. Considered old by some, could care less. *
> 
> Then she went on and on about how no younger women wanted older guys lol. Couldn't find them attractive and so on. That's just not true since every woman I have had a relationship with was younger.


Don't worry, old man. I will go get your wheelchair ready.


----------



## samyeagar

treyvion said:


> You think if you are entranced by your man's physical shape and staring that it would be disrespectful for him? It would be a hell of an ego booster.


It would be disrespectful for her to stare at other men, and I whole heartedly agree.


----------



## Jellybeans

tornado said:


> I know women who have great personalities, but I wouldn't have sex with them. *On the other side of that coin Know women who I would rather not hear their voices at all but their definitely doable*.


:rofl:


----------



## 45188

Wolf1974 said:


> Ok well this is not what was presented by her at all originally. She made a comment about 40 being old. Fine she won't think that so much when she gets to this age lol. I am almost 40. Considered old by some, could care less.
> 
> Then she went on and on about how no younger women wanted older guys lol. Couldn't find them attractive and so on. That's just not true since every woman I have had a relationship with was younger. Youngest was 26 I was 38 at the time.
> 
> Now if we are changing the focus to say a 20 year old woman likely wouldn't be attracted to say a 50 year old guy without a host of daddy issues or him having money, status, power or whatever then fine I have no issues with that. Yes I would say that is very rare. That was NOT what was first indicated.




12 years is alright, plus when a guy is 38 he looks like he's like 33. Younger. More collagen in his skin, no makeup. Makeup ages you, but women wear it to feel good about themselves because society is pretty shallow.


----------



## Faithful Wife

treyvion...she didn't mean staring at her own man, she meant staring at other men while she's with HER man.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

Jellybeans said:


> :rofl:


He's right ya know...when I was younger I was into dating women and some of them just wouldn't shut up long enough for me to be attracted to them


----------



## samyeagar

Wolf1974 said:


> Ok well this is not what was presented by her at all originally. She made a comment about 40 being old. Fine she won't think that so much when she gets to this age lol. I am almost 40. Considered old by some, could care less.
> 
> Then she went on and on about how no younger women wanted older guys lol. Couldn't find them attractive and so on. That's just not true since every woman I have had a relationship with was younger. Youngest was 26 I was 38 at the time.
> 
> Now if we are changing the focus to say a *20 year old woman likely wouldn't be attracted to say a 50 year old guy* without a host of daddy issues or him having money, status, power or whatever then fine I have no issues with that. Yes I would say that is very rare. That was NOT what was first indicated.


The same could be said for myself in reverse. A 20 year old woman would be nothing but eye candy for me. Wouldn't want a relationship, wouldn't want to sleep with her. Most likely she doesn't have the maturity or life experience to be very good at either, and wouldn't be worth more than the passing glance to me.


----------



## Faithful Wife

^^^^ is why you're a Sex God, not just a hot dude.


----------



## Wolf1974

Faithful Wife said:


> Wolf...earlier in the thread, we were talking about much larger age diff's than 4-5 years. That much is average.
> 
> The MMSL/"sex rank" figures are about a 15 year age diff, and they tell men they can "expect" this. That is where it started.


I have no issues with that. As it is then my misunderstanding I apologize to you both. When I came in she made a comment about 40 year old being old , which to some it is, and that younger women wouldn't be attracted. I used my own examples of myself and friends who married younger 5-10 years, and until last post she never said we are talking about a 15-20 year age gap not 5-10. So was my misunderstanding of something earlier in the thread that I missed.


----------



## Faithful Wife

ScarletBegonias said:


> He's right ya know...when I was younger I was into dating women and some of them just wouldn't shut up long enough for me to be attracted to them


I've dated both who I needed ear plugs to handle. It never lasts long!


----------



## Wolf1974

Jellybeans said:


> Don't worry, old man. I will go get your wheelchair ready.


Can't I have a walker first? I have a 14er to do this weekend ;-)


----------



## ScarletBegonias

Faithful Wife said:


> I've dated both who I needed ear plugs to handle. It never lasts long!


Exactly! Some of the men were more chatty than the ladies...not even giving you a word in the entire conversation.


----------



## Jellybeans

ScarletBegonias said:


> Exactly! Some of the men were more chatty than the ladies...not even giving you a word in the entire conversation.


Hilarious. 



Wolf1974 said:


> Can't I have a walker first? I have a 14er to do this weekend ;-)


One walker coming right up!


----------



## karma*girl

No worries on the thread jack- it's made for a very interesting convo; )

One major difference in general between men & women- at least in my marriage- my husband says that women can eye-ball him all they want & he wouldn't get annoyed..in fact, yes, he'd enjoy it! Of course.

I guess maybe guys don't get it that, just because they'd be okay with it, doesn't necessarily mean we would be.
I think respecting your SO's wishes in this case is pretty important.

Here's one thing that trips me up- the looking by itself isn't so bad, it's what I imagine he's thinking about the woman. That's when I become insecure.
Literally, last night we were out, I noticed him, noticing a young girl, (early 20's maybe.) It was several looks by him toward her. I KNOW he doesn't think I see it happening.

So it just affects me like, damn...Now, I don't want to get it on tonight with him. I imagine him, imagining her & his few second or longer fantasy. It makes me feel pretty ****ty.
It certainly does nothing positive for my self-esteem. I'm trying to get into lingerie & feeling comfortable with body, etc..& things like this throw me off. 

I feel like, if he's already gotten off mentally to her, he won't want to see me later..I pale in comparison anyway.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## samyeagar

karma*girl said:


> No worries on the thread jack- it's made for a very interesting convo; )
> 
> One major difference in general between men & women- at least in my marriage- my husband says that women can eye-ball him all they want & he wouldn't get annoyed..in fact, yes, he'd enjoy it! Of course.
> 
> I guess maybe guys don't get it that, just because they'd be okay with it, doesn't necessarily mean we would be.
> I think respecting your SO's wishes in this case is pretty important.
> 
> Here's one thing that trips me up- the looking by itself isn't so bad, it's what I imagine he's thinking about the woman. That's when I become insecure.
> Literally, last night we were out, I noticed him, noticing a young girl, (early 20's maybe.) It was several looks by him toward her. I KNOW he doesn't think I see it happening.
> 
> So it just affects me like, damn...Now, I don't want to get it on tonight with him. I imagine him, imagining her & his few second or longer fantasy. It makes me feel pretty ****ty.
> It certainly does nothing positive for my self-esteem. I'm trying to get into lingerie & feeling comfortable with body, etc..& things like this throw me off.
> 
> I feel like, if he's already gotten off mentally to her, he won't want to see me later..I pale in comparison anyway.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Are you sure that's what he's thinking? Not all men are like that...

I think you're right, that men and women do look at being checked out differently. It does not bother me no matter the age or what they look like. Quite a funny story...my STBW's next door neighbors...the first time we went over there so I could meet them, I overheard the neighbor and her grand daughter, aged 60 something and 21 squealing to my STBW about how good looking they thought I was. It didn't creep me out at all. The things is, I'd rather have my STBW check me out than a thousand any other women checking me out any day.


----------



## Cosmos

karma*girl said:


> No worries on the thread jack- it's made for a very interesting convo; )
> 
> One major difference in general between men & women- at least in my marriage- my husband says that women can eye-ball him all they want & he wouldn't get annoyed..in fact, yes, he'd enjoy it! Of course.
> 
> I guess maybe guys don't get it that, just because they'd be okay with it, doesn't necessarily mean we would be.
> I think respecting your SO's wishes in this case is pretty important.



But this isn't really the point is it? It's not about _women_ checking _him _out, it's about him checking _them_ out - in front of you. 

I doubt that his attitude would be quite the same if it were you _openly_ checking other men out and your H having to then sit there and have those guys preening themselves in front of him.


----------



## 45188

Karma, do you know how to apply makeup properly, do your hair properly and which clothes best fit your shape? I think you should make your husband as insecure as he's making you.  As for the gawking I er.. When I used to gawk, I couldnt really remember a lot of the details a few hours later. If you wanna know what hes thinking karma, stare at his pants.


----------



## samyeagar

kipani said:


> Karma, do you know how to apply makeup properly, do your hair properly and which clothes best fit your shape? *I think you should make your husband as insecure as he's making you.*  As for the gawking I er.. When I used to gawk, I couldnt really remember a lot of the details a few hours later. If you wanna know what hes thinking karma, stare at his pants.


I've never been one to go the tit for tat route, even to get my point across. Early on in my relationship with my STBW, she had a habit of openly visually and verbally ogling certain celebrities. I didn't really like it as I felt it was disrespectful to me. Did I expect her not to notice? Of course not, but I did expect that she would notice me more. The thing is, before me, every man she's been with has been the type to openly ogle, cheat, make her feel like crap in the ways described, and part of me can't help but think that her own behavior may have had a part in the type of men she attracted. I didn't go the tit for tat route. I told her how it made me feel, and over time, she has changed that behavior. If she hadn't, I likely would not have stayed with her because first, it would have shown a disregard on her part for my feelings, that her need to do that was more important to her than the relationship, and second, I am not going to stay in a relationship where I am made to feel settled for. I bring enough to the table that I don't need that.


----------



## karma*girl

Of course he says he's not like that, but that's hard for me to believe based on the amount of re-takes he does.
So maybe it's all in my head, (him fantasizing) but I cant be sure.

..and yes, it's definitely about how he is when I am with him, not so much him being checked out by other women. I think I'm going to give him a taste of his own medicine & make sure he sees me looking around next time we are out. I never do this out of respect for him, but maybe I'm just too nice!?

As far as my looks, I do know how to put myself together & I get attention myself in public, but that doesn't prevent me from having these negative thoughts.
I work out & am pretty attractive, same as my husband, but no matter how good I look, he'll apparently always subconciously be looking for someone better- sounds bad, but that's exactly what I feel like at times.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## karma*girl

Great points, Sam. 
I have tried so many times to ask him to stop & tell him how I feel. 
I just get a look like "what?? I wasn't even doing that, you're nuts, etc.."
It never improves, because he doesn't acknowledge it in the first place: /
That's why Im thinking I should try something different.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Faithful Wife

karma...when you go out, do other guys ever check you out, and if they do, does your H notice it?


----------



## Wolf1974

samyeagar said:


> The same could be said for myself in reverse. A 20 year old woman would be nothing but eye candy for me. Wouldn't want a relationship, wouldn't want to sleep with her. Most likely she doesn't have the maturity or life experience to be very good at either, and wouldn't be worth more than the passing glance to me.


Totally agree. women, 18,19,20,21 even look like kids to me. No interest at all on that


----------



## karma*girl

Yes, very often they do..he never takes notice, or acts like he notices & never says a word about it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## karma*girl

I need to go somewhere where there are a lot of awesome black men- in all seriousness, I tend to get loads of attention from them...I know he'd notice that: )
(Still, I doubt he'd say anything! )
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MaritimeGuy

karma*girl said:


> I KNOW he doesn't think I see it happening._Posted via Mobile Device_


Ouch...wonder how many times I'm guilty of this.


----------



## samyeagar

karma*girl said:


> Yes, very often they do..he never takes notice, or acts like he notices & never says a word about it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have a feeling if you do go the tit for tat route, he may take that as you accepting his behavior as normal, and feel vindicated. One of the reasons I did not go that route with my STBW.

My background with women is a bit different than many men, so I understand that I have a different point of view than a lot do, but I think in some ways I am like FW's husband in that I do notice those things, and not only is openly looking disrespectful to my partner, it is sending a message to other women that I am available on one level or another, and that is not a message I want to send.


----------



## samyeagar

MaritimeGuy said:


> Ouch...wonder how many times I'm guilty of this.


My STBW confirmed that I am pretty good at hiding it when she asked me if I ever saw any other attractive women, if I ever looked because she thought maybe I wasn't normal...the thing is, I do notice, but it's more like noticing a speed limit sign driving down the highway, or a mailbox on the side of the road, you know it's there, but that's about it...


----------



## Machiavelli

I wasn't going to comment on this, as I thought I must have mistakenly gotten into the Ladies Lounge; but I did a double take and saw that, yes, this was the Boy's Clubhouse, so a comment is in order.

Getting mad at a man for looking at women is like being mad at the sun for making it hot and forcing women to get naked. Men are polygynous by nature. Nature will always prevail, at least in the urge, if not in the action. But, I fully understand your position, which is why women have always been the "slvt shamers" and not men. The exception being men who are tools of women, like preachers for example.


----------



## Faithful Wife

karma*girl said:


> Yes, very often they do..he never takes notice, or acts like he notices & never says a word about it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh dang. I was hoping maybe...

Well, with my H, he is constantly c*ck-blocking and mate guarding, every where we go. He sees guys checking me out way before I do (as I am not paying attention, but he is closely). He knows every pair of eyes that are on me at all times in public. He isn't threatened, he just finds it rude of these guys to ogle me, so he deliberately makes (mean dude) eye contact with them or puts his body in front of mine so they can't see me.

I think him being this way is also part of why he doesn't ogle women in front of me....he knows it is rude.

I was just hoping maybe this could work for you...


----------



## Machiavelli

samyeagar said:


> My STBW confirmed that I am pretty good at hiding it when she asked me if I ever saw any other attractive women, if I ever looked because she thought maybe I wasn't normal...the thing is, I do notice, but it's more like noticing a speed limit sign driving down the highway, or a mailbox on the side of the road, you know it's there, but that's about it...


I wear shades all the time. The style we called "girl watchers" back in the 60's. Back in the 70's you couldnt get those anymore, so I wore mirror aviators. No way my wife can tell where my eyes are. She could always tell, even though my head moved neither to the right nor the left. I have a high degree of Neanderthal DNA, and I would twitch unconsciously to get the scent. Dead giveaway every time.


----------



## tornado

*Re: Re: The annoyance of ****ty looking women..*



karma*girl said:


> I need to go somewhere where there are a lot of awesome black men- in all seriousness, I tend to get loads of attention from them...I know he'd notice that: )
> (Still, I doubt he'd say anything! )
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My wife says that she could walk thru the room naked and I wouldn't even care. This is not true, but what can I really do about people looking at my wife. It doesn't bother me alot but it wouldn't matter if it did.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Now that the MRA's are here, I'll leave the thread.

But karma girl...feel free to PM me about this. And try to be cool and not listen to evo-psyche crap. Good luck!


----------



## Cosmos

karma*girl said:


> Yes, very often they do..he never takes notice, or acts like he notices & never says a word about it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Because he feels totally secure with you, KG. You're not the one checking those guys out, and your H probably knows that _he's_ the centre of your universe - so no problem...

I'm not into game playing, but perhaps it's time to give your H a taste of his own medicine. It's my guess that if you were to openly give one of those men the eye when next one of them looks at you, your H might learn what it feels like.


----------



## samyeagar

Machiavelli said:


> *I wear shades all the time.* The style we called "girl watchers" back in the 60's. Back in the 70's you couldnt get those anymore, so I wore mirror aviators. No way my wife can tell where my eyes are. She could always tell, even though my head moved neither to the right nor the left. I have a high degree of Neanderthal DNA, and I would twitch unconsciously to get the scent. Dead giveaway every time.


I never wear sunglasses. Don't like the way they feel, and besides, my eyes are too captivating to be hiding them


----------



## karma*girl

FW- I WISH my husband would be that way. You're lucky to have that. 

Yes this is the Men's Clubhouse, but the conversation evolved the way it did, sorry.
If you would have read more, you'd know it was not that I expect him NOT to look, that's silly..it is about his re-takes while I'm right there with him. 
Makes me feel like a chump. 

Sam said it well when he stated that not only is it disrespectful to his wife, if he did it, but it also sends a message to the other woman that he's available on some level, to her. 
That was such a good point, thank you!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## samyeagar

Faithful Wife said:


> Oh dang. I was hoping maybe...
> 
> Well, with my H, he is constantly c*ck-blocking and mate guarding, every where we go. He sees guys checking me out way before I do (as I am not paying attention, but he is closely). He knows every pair of eyes that are on me at all times in public. *He isn't threatened, he just finds it rude of these guys to ogle me, so he deliberately makes (mean dude) eye contact with them or puts his body in front of mine so they can't see me*.
> 
> I think him being this way is also part of why he doesn't ogle women in front of me....he knows it is rude.
> 
> I was just hoping maybe this could work for you...


^^^This



tornado said:


> My wife says that she could walk thru the room naked and I wouldn't even care. This is not true,* but what can I really do about people looking at my wife.* It doesn't bother me alot but it wouldn't matter if it did.


I make it very uncomfortable for other men to check out my STBW.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Cosmos said:


> Because he feels totally secure with you, KG. You're not the one checking those guys out, and your H probably knows that _he's_ the centre of your universe - so no problem...
> 
> I'm not into game playing, but perhaps it's time to give your H a taste of his own medicine. It's my guess that if you were to openly give one of those men the eye when next one of them looks at you, your H might learn what it feels like.


cosmos...that is a good point.

My H wasn't really sure when we first met if I was also ogling, but he did know he wasn't the center of my universe "yet". So those mate guarding behaviors started right away.


----------



## karma*girl

Cosmos- you are probably completely right. 
My husband knows he is my one & only. Maybe he takes that for granted?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## karma*girl

(We've been together almost 20 years)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 45188

Karmas gonna use that line on her husband next time they talk. But really, give him a taste of his own medicine!


----------



## samyeagar

kipani said:


> Karmas gonna use that line on her husband next time they talk. *But really, give him a taste of his own medicine*!


Again...be careful with the tit for tat. It is just as likely to vindicate his behavior in his own mind as it is to bother him. Giving a taste of his own medicine, revenge if you will, can hurt the person drinking it, but kill the person giving it.


----------



## learning to love myself

Jellybeans said:


> How incredibly insulting to men. I mean really. To suggest that they have to PAY for sex because a woman may be younger? Really?
> 
> I know plenty of real-life couples were the man is older than the woman. I see it every day. You also said oppressed women are the ones going after older dudes. Uh, there are tons of NON-oppressed women who are attracted to and married to/partenered with older men. To think this doesn't happen is mind-boggling.


I have been reading all of this and your hitting your head up against the wall arguing with a child. (yes I said child kipani) 

try to remember being super young and naïve, we all thought we knew everything, these are the same people(children) who work there first job out of college and make good money and have no idea how the real world works, until one day they get slapped upside the face with reality and it all comes crashing down.

My sons argue like this and when they are proven wrong I do take such delight for a short moment and then try to help them.

Just like our parents did when we though we knew everything and to some degree still do....lol


----------



## karma*girl

I'd love to talk to him, but it always winds up turned around so I am the one with the problem..(ex: I'm crazy, psycho, insecure, etc..)
It goes nowhere. He won't admit or acknowledge it. 
It's VERY frustrating. 

If he was honest, I would say, thank you! Now how can we compromise so this feels better to me? 
I would not say- now never look at another woman as long as you live.

But maybe I expect too much from him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## samyeagar

karma*girl said:


> I'd love to talk to him, *but it always winds up turned around so I am the one with the problem..(ex: I'm crazy, psycho, insecure, etc..)*
> It goes nowhere. He won't admit or acknowledge it.
> It's VERY frustrating.
> 
> If he was honest, I would say, thank you! Now how can we compromise so this feels better to me?
> I would not say- now never look at another woman as long as you live.
> 
> But maybe I expect too much from him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is the real problem here...


----------



## 45188

Learning to love, you realize we're talking about 15-20 year age gap, yeah? That's okay, I'm used to know it alls not having any other room for others opinions and only their own. I guess you're still that person you were to your parents. 

And Karma, if he doesn't respect you like that, I'm sorry. I think you should still give him a taste of his own medicine. If he gets vindictive about it, he's just not right for you. Thats like saying, its okay for him to do it and to disrespect you and BS you about it, but it hurts you. That is the point. It hurts you. He doesn't respect you.


----------



## learning to love myself

Faithful Wife said:


> I don't need a personality at all...I can get hot just from the looks and body. And really, nothing else will substitute for "that" type of "hot"...for me, at least. So sam...it isn't "just guys" who are like that. Many women are, too. I can be "hot" for someone without "liking" them at all.
> 
> But many women won't say this out loud.
> 
> (but I am not speaking for all women...just the one's like me who have a certain physical/sexual level of attraction that is very defined)
> 
> As for a choice in partner...I have to be hot for them AND like them.
> 
> But wet panties are a different story.


You said it sister!!


----------



## tornado

*Re: Re: The annoyance of ****ty looking women..*



samyeagar said:


> ^^^This
> 
> 
> 
> I make it very uncomfortable for other men to check out my STBW.


I just think being jealous is a waste of energy. Jealousy has never stopped anyone from cheating.


----------



## 45188

Indifference has lead to a LOT of people cheating.


----------



## karma*girl

Yep, that would be the essence of my problem, you got it.

Thanks Kipani..every other way, he is fantastic. With this, not so much: /
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## youkiddingme

The "wet panties" line is the most intriguing comment in this whole thread! Thanks for the entertainment today folks!!!! Ha


----------



## samyeagar

tornado said:


> I just think being jealous is a waste of energy. Jealousy has never stopped anyone from cheating.


Who said anything about jealousy? There is a difference between jealousy and mate guarding, and mate guarding IS relationship guarding behavior. I am not worried in the least about my STBW cheating on me in the sense that I can actually DO something to stop her, but yeah, I do a hell of a lot to meet her needs, loved, adored, respected, and yes, protected. I also rock her world in bed. The beautiful thing is, she does the same for me.


----------



## tornado

*Re: Re: The annoyance of ****ty looking women..*



samyeagar said:


> Who said anything about jealousy? There is a difference between jealousy and mate guarding, and mate guarding IS relationship guarding behavior. I am not worried in the least about my STBW cheating on me in the sense that I can actually DO something to stop her, but yeah, I do a hell of a lot to meet her needs, loved, adored, respected, and yes, protected. I also rock her world in bed. The beautiful thing is, she does the same for me.


I guess what I was saying was that I don't really pay attention whether or not guys are eyeing my wife. If someone approached her in a inappropriate manner then I would definitely have plenty to say.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Yeah, my H doesn't do that in public to "stop me from cheating". Not sure where you got that. He does it because he doesn't like men ogling me disrespectfully right in front of him. Many times the guys just act like he doesn't exist or as if he shouldn't have a problem with it. That level of disrespect is what he is against and he makes them KNOW he exists.

It is different if we are on a beach. People are always going to check each other out when there are bikinis involved.

But when we are going out to dinner and some dude just won't stop disrespectfully staring, that's when my H gets in the guy's way.


----------



## Faithful Wife

tornado...as an experiment, you might do something next time you notice a guy checking out your wife.

Just say something to her like "sheesh, I wish that guy would have some respect, she's MARRIED and I'm right HERE, fer crissakes" and then glance at him disapprovingly.

You might be surprised to find that she LOVES this.


----------



## karma*girl

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tornado

*Re: Re: The annoyance of ****ty looking women..*



Faithful Wife said:


> tornado...as an experiment, you might do something next time you notice a guy checking out your wife.
> 
> Just say something to her like "sheesh, I wish that guy would have some respect, she's MARRIED and I'm right HERE, fer crissakes" and then glance at him disapprovingly.
> 
> You might be surprised to find that she LOVES this.


May try that.


----------



## karma*girl

FW..that would be heavenly if my husband would do that^
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JCD

always_alone said:


> The fact that someone is happy to accept a plane ticket to an adventure says very little about that person's level of attraction. Even if she's willing to pay in sexual currency.
> 
> I'm always amused when men think that the act of sex actually means there is sexual attraction, desire, or any sort of warm and friendly feelings. Seems to me they should know better.


In this case, I think you are denying the variety in women by imposing your own preferences upon them wholesale.


----------



## JCD

kipani said:


> I didn't say all women jellybeans. I said most women. The MAJORITY of women. Women that are the NORM.  So uh jellybeans, once again, in your real life experience, how many young women / old guy couples do you know? I'm assuming you probably just know old guys who PAY for sex with younger women. And if ya pay for it, it don't count!
> 
> Actually sam.. no. If Liam was just liam and not bryan, Id see him more as a papa than attractive.


Oh...so his status and persona have a direct role in how attractive he is... You would not be attracted to Liam Neeson, plumber. 

And my saying that status has influence on desire is WAY out of line  Got it


----------



## JCD

kipani said:


> Yeah pretty much. But its true. I mean you guys just name rich celebrities as examples, so.. Celebs paying her one way or another. *wink* Bill bought fat monica stuff too. Too bad he risked it all for sex coz he wanted to bang a younger woman while she probably just liked the gucci bags he bought her.


So you are denying her own words at how heady she thought the whole thing was to make it fit into your theories. Fascinating.


----------



## 45188

Yeah JCD, I know a ton of guys who've banged super ugly women too. *Shrugs* It goes both ways. JCD him being an unemployed CIA agent isn't about status. Its the fact that he kicked ass to save his daughter and was really driven by selflessness. I like selfless men. I don't care for disrespectful selfish men though. They're disposable, or the mistakes you make before finding a real man.


----------



## Omego

My H glances at them in a certain way, and then they stop. I'm not sure he even realizes that he is doing it. He always remarks on the fact that other men notice his W, but it doesn't bother him: to the contrary actually.


----------



## Faithful Wife

kipani...just let uncle JCD tell you all about how you should be into old guys, ok? (lol!)


----------



## always_alone

JCD said:


> In this case, I think you are denying the variety in women by imposing your own preferences upon them wholesale.


Not denying variety at all. Quite the opposite, as I was merely pointing out that the assumption that desirable=sexy is highly questionable.

Oh, and not at all my preference. I have no interest whatsoever in using some guy for his money, and never have. Frankly not that interested in the power, money, status triad, as I believe it tends to promote a$$holism. 

No, I make my own adventure ...although I will share with the right person


----------



## Cosmos

samyeagar said:


> Again...be careful with the tit for tat. It is just as likely to vindicate his behavior in his own mind as it is to bother him. Giving a taste of his own medicine, revenge if you will, can hurt the person drinking it, but kill the person giving it.


This is very true, Sam, but Karma's H's behaviour sounds crazy making. He ogles other women in front of her (double takes and rubber-necking are not glances), which leaves her feeling embarrassed and disrespected, then denies having done it.

Frankly? I think he knows _exactly_ what he's doing and enjoys getting a rise out of her.


----------



## 45188

Yeah I wouldn't really expect a good honest relationship out of a rich guy honestly.


----------



## JCD

Cosmos said:


> Because he feels totally secure with you, KG. You're not the one checking those guys out, and your H probably knows that _he's_ the centre of your universe - so no problem...
> 
> I'm not into game playing, but perhaps it's time to give your H a taste of his own medicine. It's my guess that if you were to openly give one of those men the eye when next one of them looks at you, your H might learn what it feels like.


Here is where gender differences make this fall apart.

I was with my sister in the mall. I noticed two guys blatantly following her around. I asked her what she did.

"I just smiled at them."

So you want to compare LOOKING at a girl on his part to a pretty active FLIRT on her part. Any guy getting 'the eye'. It would be the equivalent to him walking up and talking to the girl.

So she would be raising the odds. Which is fine if that is what you want to do. If this bites you on the ass...well, you've been warned.


----------



## JCD

kipani said:


> Karmas gonna use that line on her husband next time they talk. But really, give him a taste of his own medicine!


This is a great idea. You should flirt too. That will show him how powerful you are.


----------



## lovelygirl

FrenchFry said:


> This took me awhile to accept as NOT jealousy. :rofl: I still think it's really funny though.


Yeah, it's not about jealousy. It's about alpha attitude which is sexy as hell if a man has go it!


----------



## Faithful Wife

FrenchFry said:


> This took me awhile to accept as NOT jealousy. :rofl: I still think it's really funny though.


I was a little like "huh, wow" when he first did this with me in public.

I wasn't used to any man taking charge of a situation (his own, not mine) in this way before.

But very quickly I decided that I love it!

And then it also made me notice more that, yeah, these guys are being totally disrespectful....I am introverted and I deliberately don't make eye contact with people when I'm out and about so I really didn't notice it THAT much. But then he pointed a few out to me and I found a way to see it without them noticing I saw it.

When I did see it I was like "oh wow, yeah, that is total disrespect and I'm so happy he steps in their way and eye balls them". Not because the dudes are a threat to him or me, but because he just won't stand for being blatently disrespected...his own thing. I love it.


----------



## 45188

JCD said:


> This is a great idea. You should flirt too. That will show him how powerful you are.


Just smile at them Karma. It works.  And stare back. Treat him how he treats you. Equal dynamics. You guys are partners after all.


----------



## karma*girl

Thanks Cosmos, I am never a tit-for-tat kind of person, it goes against my instincts. 

BUT, maybe a little healthy reciprocation, nothing too blatant, will wake him up?

I know if he calls me on it, he will be pissed the entire day though, so it's hard to decide to ruin a whole day together.

Whereas with me, when he does it, I won't hold a grudge. I WILL NOT be as loving toward him though. 

The whole dynamic just sucks the intimacy right out of me..as far as my feelings for him go.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JCD

Faithful Wife said:


> kipani...just let uncle JCD tell you all about how you should be into old guys, ok? (lol!)


I am reminded of a cheap child's plastic trumpet. All it plays is one note, but boy is it noisy!


----------



## Faithful Wife

Yes, could you perhaps read a new book so you can stop with the one note about how young women are hot for old men?

I personally would LOVE to be able to stop correcting that misconception, but as long as you spout it, I'm going to correct it.


----------



## not recognizable

karma*girl said:


> I'm no prude, I don't dress overly conservative, at all.
> I think I usually look pretty good/attractive..in a classy way.
> Also, I totally understand that men (and even women) will steal a glance at someone else if they are attractive...or apparently if their 'parts' are half showing or hanging out.
> That is no secret to me. I do know it's natural & tough to avoid.
> 
> What frustrates me, as a woman/wife, is that husbands or men in general wouldn't want their own woman to dress this way in public, yet they feel free to direct their attention towards those willing to look cheap..cheap thrills are everywhere.
> 
> Do you know how damn frustrating that is? Here we are thinking we look hot today- then here comes Ms.T&A.
> It gives the impression that they are just as worthy of your attention as we are..like we are equal. With no effort at all they get your attention. When you are with your wife & this happens, it can be pretty embarrassing for us (your wives) and validating to the other woman, that yes, she is pulling your attention, regardless if your wife is there or not. That gives her the power in that moment.
> As stupid as this might sound, that woman, in that moment (most likely) feels sorry for the wife. I know this because I have been that woman that another husband or SO has stated at- with the wife on his arm. It's so, so disrespectful.
> 
> Today, there were many women who were letting lots show due to a really warm day.
> I mean lots. It's crazy.
> 
> They are obvious attention *****s & it drives me nuts when guys give that attention that they are seeking.
> 
> It's very, very annoying, as a wife, to see your husband get drawn in by cheap looking women, when you invest a good amount of energy in yourself to look really good.
> Yes, I know, no matter how good I look, he'll still look & it says nothing about how he feels about me.
> That logic doesn't help in that moment when he decides it's cool to be disrespectful toward me by eye-f'ing other women.
> 
> This is an obvious vent, so I appreciate those that 'listen.'
> I just don't think some men realize what messages they are sending to their wives in these instances.
> It somehow just feels unfair to me.
> (Obviously, I am not the woman that points out eye-candy to my husband..I wish I was so this didn't bug me: )
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


"That gives her the power in that moment. "

Oh my goodness you're the only other woman that I have heard who is open enough to say it! Yes, and I've seen the look of victory given to the wife/girlfriend--haha, I got your man to look at me. I've heard a woman say she actually gets tarted up to go to the grocery store--the GROCERY store--just to get men to look at her. Not uncommon, my local store seems to have at the very least five women looking like they are about to strip. We're only here for men's entertainment, ladies!

Occasionally there is the look of pity--why is your boyfriend checking me out in front of you?

With no understanding of how very easy that is. Men are always on the hunt.

Yes, slu!!y is very annoying.


----------



## not recognizable

CantePe said:


> It's not he woman that's the problem, it's your husband looking and you not firmly setting your boundaries with your husband. Nobody holds a gun to someone elses head to stare at women dressed in very little. It's a choice to look. It's a choice to not voice and enforce a personal boundary.


So, she's supposed to tell her husband not to look? Dictate to him? That'll go over well!


----------



## not recognizable

JCD said:


> Saying it is biological is a cop out, but it's an honest cop out. It is like our stomach grumbling if we haven't eaten all day but we smell a steak: a quick and pretty meaningless demonstration of want/need.
> 
> The other woman isn't dressing provocatively. She is jumping around with a big sign saying 'I'm available!"
> 
> My issue with all of this is when the woman in question does it simply to purposefully get that attention...so she can slap down any paramour for her own petty ego gratification.


"My issue with all of this is when the woman in question does it simply to purposefully get that attention."

That's what it's all about to the women. Glad you can see it. But why is that an issue with you but your uncontrollable "hunger" is okay?


----------



## not recognizable

karma*girl said:


> That's what it does- feeds the stranger's ego & hurts his partner's, all at once. (Of course this won't bother some women at all..I am trying to learn how to get there..yet, I can't see it ever feeling right to me.)
> The other woman is usually very aware of being checked out & the wife is very aware that she is aware, which makes it so awkward..meanwhile, the guy is acting like he got away with something: /
> 
> When you say she is advertising that she's available, does that spark even a happily married man's interest?
> 
> Isn't it worth it to honor your wife & be a stronger man, for her, than it is to indulge in cheap glances?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


"Isn't it worth it to honor your wife & be a stronger man, for her, than it is to indulge in cheap glances?Isn't it worth it to honor your wife & be a stronger man, for her, than it is to indulge in cheap glances"

I've actually met a few men who agree with that.
Don't make yourself become "okay" with it if you really aren't. Don't betray yourself.


----------



## not recognizable

always_alone said:


> Don't get mad at her, get mad at him. He's the one who is sending the message that any cute thing matters more than you.
> 
> Better still, don't get mad at all, get even. She won't get the opportunity to feel sorry for you if you're too busy noticing hot dude across the corner.
> 
> And h perhaps can have a taste of what it feels like to be put down by one's spouse.


That's the rationale I use. I only ask to be respected in his company; what he does on his own is his own business. Otherwise he shouldn't complain if I engage the good looking men.


----------



## Cosmos

karma*girl said:


> Thanks Cosmos, I am never a tit-for-tat kind of person, it goes against my instincts.
> 
> BUT, maybe a little healthy reciprocation, nothing too blatant, will wake him up?
> 
> I know if he calls me on it, he will be pissed the entire day though, so it's hard to decide to ruin a whole day together.
> 
> Whereas with me, when he does it, I won't hold a grudge. I WILL NOT be as loving toward him though.
> 
> The whole dynamic just sucks the intimacy right out of me..as far as my feelings for him go.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Karma, quite honestly, I don't think tit for tat ever really works. It can but, as Sam said, it can be a risky business.

The first time I experienced this sort of behaviour whilst out with a man was when I first started dating my SO. He was an ogler and I felt shocked and disrespected by his blatant stares at (and comments about) other women. I tolerated it for a short while (a _very short_ while), but then told him that if he wants to spend the evening looking at other women he could take me home. I had far better things to do than sit there like a benevolent aunt / sister whilst he enjoyed the 'wild life.' He denied the ogling, of course, but he stopped doing it. Had he done it again after this, I would have had absolutely no compunction in excusing myself (without explanation) and catching a cab home.


----------



## Machiavelli

karma*girl said:


> FW- I WISH my husband would be that way. You're lucky to have that.
> 
> Yes this is the Men's Clubhouse, but the conversation evolved the way it did, sorry.
> If you would have read more, you'd know it was not that I expect him NOT to look, that's silly..it is about his re-takes while I'm right there with him.
> Makes me feel like a chump.


I read it, but double takes are part and parcel of maledom. Occasionally, despite my efforts to be cool, I will give myself whiplash doing a double take. Invariably my wife will say something like "what happened?" "what is it?" etc. She had already scanned the scene long before me and knew what would eventually get my attention.


----------



## JCD

Faithful Wife said:


> Yes, could you perhaps read a new book so you can stop with the one note about how young women are hot for old men?
> 
> I personally would LOVE to be able to stop correcting that misconception, but as long as you spout it, I'm going to correct it.


I suppose since you don't seem to understand what I am saying, it is inevitable that you misquote me.

This assumes you are an honest debater, something much in question.


----------



## samyeagar

not recognizable said:


> So, she's supposed to tell her husband not to look? Dictate to him? That'll go over well!


No. Absolutely not, but...taken to the extreme here...

When you behave this way, it make me feel like this. I can't be in a relationship where I feel like this.

No demand, but quite clear. It's not about HER telling him how to behave. It's about HIM respecting her feelings. The choice is his...stare at the other women, or respect his wife's feelings...which one is more important to him?


----------



## JCD

samyeagar said:


> No. Absolutely not, but...taken to the extreme here...
> 
> When you behave this way, it make me feel like this. I can't be in a relationship where I feel like this.
> 
> No demand, but quite clear. It's not about HER telling him how to behave. It's about HIM respecting her feelings.  The choice is his...stare at the other women, or respect his wife's feelings...which one is more important to him?


I don't even understand why this is a question. When she says something like this, he needs to chill out and either give it up when he is with her, or at a bare minimum learn how to be MUCH more discreet when he does it.

Considering how sensitive Karma is to it, he should probably just quit.

I am always interested in gender parity however. We all know the stereotype of the horribly jealous man who will take his woman to task for touching, talking to, or even looking at another woman. They are considered flaming a-holes in general.

Do you women think that there are _women_ like that, who might be Hypersensitive...or are their feelings always justified?

I am attributing nothing to karma. I am asking a generic question about this situation.


----------



## samyeagar

not recognizable said:


> That's the rationale I use. I only ask to be respected in his company; what he does on his own is his own business. Otherwise he shouldn't complain if I engage the good looking men.


I don't do it with her, with my buddies, when I am by myself. I am a pretty big believer in the whole thought process...would I say or do this in front of her? No? Then I won't do it.

Now...about how he shouldn't complain if she did it? I have a feeling we all know that he probably would and very much so. That leads into something else about double standards vs different standards, which I will give my thoughts on later when I have a few more minutes


----------



## melw74

There are a lot of good looking woman out there. Yes i think some go over the top, wear next to nothing and try to get as much attention as they want, then you have woman who are just attractive and have a nice figure, and just like to look nice.... Not all woman that wear short dresses/skirts, short tops etc are ****s etc.

Men being the red hot blooded men they are will always have a quick glimpse if they see a hot lady, nice figure.... Its just what they do, its in them.

For me my husband will have a quick look then he looks away, he tries to do it without me seeing, but sometimes i do catch him, but i say nothing as i am the one hes married to, goes to bed with, Its me he loves.


I suppose tho it is a bit double standards for me, My husband does not really like my boobs on show if were out with friends, he also does not like me to wear really short skirts if were doing something where i am going to something with a lot of bending down.... ( sometimes i do my own karaoke, bending down lots).... he just says he likes me to be respectable, but then he will notice if he sees someone next to nothing on.....

I have asked and he just says i am his wife and he just does not like it.


----------



## JCD

melw74 said:


> There are a lot of good looking woman out there. Yes i think some go over the top, wear next to nothing and try to get as much attention as they want, then you have woman who are just attractive and have a nice figure, and just like to look nice.... Not all woman that wear short dresses/skirts, short tops etc are ****s etc.
> 
> Men being the red hot blooded men they are will always have a quick glimpse if they see a hot lady, nice figure.... Its just what they do, its in them.
> 
> For me my husband will have a quick look then he looks away, he tries to do it without me seeing, but sometimes i do catch him, but i say nothing as i am the one hes married to, goes to bed with, Its me he loves.
> 
> 
> I suppose tho it is a bit double standards for me, My husband does not really like my boobs on show if were out with friends, he also does not like me to wear really short skirts if were doing something where i am going to something with a lot of bending down.... ( sometimes i do my own karaoke, bending down lots).... he just says he likes me to be respectable, but then he will notice if he sees someone next to nothing on.....
> 
> I have asked and he just says i am his wife and he just does not like it.


For him, they are NOT respectable girls. How does he tell? Look at how they dress. If they dress like that, they are not respectable.

He holds YOU to a higher standard because you are a better woman: a life partner and not just needy eye candy.

That is how I parse what he is saying.


----------



## Jellybeans

melw74 said:


> he just says he likes me to be respectable, but then he will notice if he sees someone next to nothing on.....


In his defense, it's hard NOT to notice someone with next to nothing on. Men and women alike. Your eyes WILL notice. It's human nature.


----------



## Cosmos

melw74 said:


> I suppose tho it is a bit double standards for me, My husband does not really like my boobs on show if were out with friends, he also does not like me to wear really short skirts if were doing something where i am going to something with a lot of bending down.... ( sometimes i do my own karaoke, bending down lots).... he just says he likes me to be respectable, but then he will notice if he sees someone next to nothing on.....
> 
> I have asked and he just says i am his wife and he just does not like it.


Your H's attitude is interesting. It's OK for him to notice other women, but it's not OK for men to notice you... He is also aware of what catches a man's attention (including his own), but makes sure that _you_ don't... All because you're "his wife and he just does not like it..."

I don't believe that your H is unique in his attitude (nor particularly wrong) but, as you say, it _is_ a double standard. He doesn't want men noticing you - yet alone ogling. Why? _Because it wouldn't feel good!_ How much worse it would be for him, then, if it were actually _you_ doing the looking - and enough, _at least_, for him to _notice you were looking..._


----------



## Jellybeans

If this is coming at me on the beach, I AM going to look.










I may as well be DEAD if I don't notice, you know?


----------



## ScarletBegonias

I think it's safe to say EVERYONE is going to look at that.


----------



## JCD

ScarletBegonias said:


> I think it's safe to say EVERYONE is going to look at that.


Some of us out of hatred.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

JCD said:


> Some of us out of hatred.


I can totally understand and respect that


----------



## Jellybeans

ScarletBegonias said:


> I think it's safe to say EVERYONE is going to look at that.


::salivates:: That man is soooooooooo fine. Lisa Bonet is a lucky woman.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

Jellybeans said:


> ::salivates:: That man is soooooooooo fine. Lisa Bonet is a lucky woman.


Is it wrong I like him better when he's filthy,hairy,and scary??


----------



## samyeagar

Jellybeans said:


> ::salivates:: That man is soooooooooo fine. *Lisa Bonet is a lucky woman*.


In the three second fantasy life you created  How many times do people look at celeb couples where both are soooo good looking and when they split, the thoughts go to How could they let that go? If I had her or him, I'd never let them go. A lot of times, there are very real problems even in celeb relationships, that no matter how hot they are, how good of screen writers they have, how good of interviews they give, that the normal person would no way in hell put up with...problems that even the hotness can't overcome.


----------



## Jellybeans

ScarletBegonias said:


> Is it wrong I like him better when he's filthy,hairy,and scary??


No. He is fine no matter whether he's clean-shaven or dirrrty. Oooh la la.


----------



## Jellybeans

You are way over-thinking this, Sam. In my fantasy he is really good in bed and we don't leave bed or daaaaaaaaaaays. Hehehehehe. I would never not notice him on a beach, ya know? 

No one is saying anything about celebs and the problems they have. It was just an example about humans noticing other hot humans in this spirit of this thread  Even "old balls" men like Liam Neeson.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

He's kinda dippy though,I doubt I could spend days with him.Maybe a few hours til I kick him out and search for intellectual stimulation


----------



## Jellybeans

It goes back to the whole thing you said yesterday about how you'd rather some lovers didn't talk. Hehehehe. Shut up and kiss me!!!


----------



## samyeagar

There is a fine line between a double standard and simply having different standards, and I think it lies in the more restrictive standard, and how both partners view it. My best example is with my STBW and I's views on strip clubs. She likes going occasionally with me. She loves the sexually charged environment. She has stated that she'd have no problems with me going without her, with my buddies after work, though she'd be a bit uncomfortable if I started going regularly by myself. I on the other hand don't really want her going to male strip clubs, nor do I want her having a stripper at her bachelorette party, though she'd be fine with me having a stripper for my bachelor party. Different standards for sure, but not double standards. I don't go to the strip clubs with my buddies or alone, only with her, never get a private dance, and if we never went again, I'd be perfectly fine with that. I'm not having a stripper at my bacchelor party. I'm keeping to my own standards in my own personal, without her, behavior.

There is no tit for tat, what's good for the goose is good for the gander behavior. I have never said, or even implied that I can do this, but you can't. I have never given an ultimatum or demand, just let her know my personal feelings and how her choices and behavior would affect me, and let her make her own decision.


----------



## samyeagar

Jellybeans said:


> *You are way over-thinking this, Sam. In my fantasy he is really good in bed and we don't leave bed or daaaaaaaaaaays. Heheheheh*e. I would never not notice him on a beach, ya know?
> 
> No one is saying anything about celebs and the problems they have. It was just an example about humans noticing other hot humans in this spirit of this thread  Even "old balls" men like Liam Neeson.


So in your fantasy, Lisa Bonet really isn't so lucky is she?  Of course, if her reality was your fantasy, she sure would be


----------



## JCD

ScarletBegonias said:


> Is it wrong I like him better when he's filthy,hairy,and scary??



Wait SB. Faithful Wife has assured us that Machiavelli is TOTALLY wrong about all his assertions of...well...everything limbic.

Women are MUCH more evolved than to be interested in some steroid monkey.

So you CAN'T be interested in him, dirty or clean.


----------



## not recognizable

Originally posted by samyeagar:

"I don't do it with her, with my buddies, when I am by myself. I am a pretty big believer in the whole thought process...would I say or do this in front of her? No? Then I won't do it.

Now...about how he shouldn't complain if she did it? I have a feeling we all know that he probably would and very much so. That leads into something else about double standards vs different standards, which I will give my thoughts on later when I have a few more minutes "

-------------------------------------------

WOW Just wow.

I'm SOOOOO relieved to to be reminded there are men with both backbone and class. After u unpleasant couple of days and an early morning encounter with your polar opposite, you've singlehandedly made my day. Thanks!

I suppose in light of your fearless honesty, I can say for me at least, my staring at men in front of a significant other would be revenge rather than a double standard. I would never do that to someone otherwise. It's just too rude.
Last night after my rant I went to the grocery store and decided to try the experiment. (Note: that is not why I went to the grocery store. I was out of vitamin D and beer.) I rarely make eye contact with anyone or pay them any attention. But last night I looked every man there-who was alone, mind you--full in the face to see where their eyes were and every single one of them for lack of better description, checked me out. Most were not lascivious about it, just a check out and a friendly smile and "hello."
Unlike the woman I heard about who goes trawling for guys in the grocery store, I was not in any way looking provocative. I was dressed in work clothes--black pants and loose sweater, a coat and my hair up.
These seemed nice, friendly men with nice, friendly stares. But stare they did.
So, your post comes like a glass of cool water (or Shocktop Belgium wheat beer) on a hot and aggravating day.

:toast:


----------



## ScarletBegonias

JCD said:


> Wait SB. Faithful Wife has assured us that Machiavelli is TOTALLY wrong about all his assertions of...well...everything limbic.
> 
> Women are MUCH more evolved than to be interested in some steroid monkey.
> 
> So you CAN'T be interested in him, dirty or clean.


I don't think she ever said we weren't interested in those men.I think her point is we are interested in ALL types of men and there isn't one set formula to what makes a woman hot. Mach seems to think it's ONLY the steroid alpha monkey that gets us hot.


To further that...

I can get down with a man who looks like the one we've been talking about. But this guy also gets my motor running...


----------



## JCD

ScarletBegonias said:


> I don't think she ever said we weren't interested in those men.I think her point is we are interested in ALL types of men and there isn't one set formula to what makes a woman hot. Mach seems to think it's ONLY the steroid alpha monkey that gets us hot.
> 
> 
> To further that...
> 
> I can get down with a man who looks like the one we've been talking about. But this guy also gets my motor running...




No no. No nuance is allowed. I don't need to try to understand the permutations of her ideas. I get to reduce her 'absurd' argument into a sound bite: women AREN'T attracted to 'V' shaped men.


But good for you for being broad in your likes.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

JCD said:


> No no. No nuance is allowed. She said that Mach's assertions of 'David's V' were wrong and so women AREN'T attracted to 'V' shaped men.


Find the quote for me then I'll believe she spoke definitively on that. Mach frequently asserts women can ONLY be attracted to "David's V" and no other man will keep a woman for long unless he looks that way. I'm nearly positive FW was trying to get him to understand he's wrong about that assertion,not wrong about the fact that women can be attracted to the V.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

JCD said:


> Who cares if she 'actually' said it.
> 
> I am holding her to the standard she holds me to...and am as accurate at quoting her as she is with me.


that's between the two of you then. Not sure why you're being prickly about her and bringing her up when she's not even in this conversation. but ok. you rock out with that if it makes you feel better


----------



## JCD

ScarletBegonias said:


> Find the quote for me then I'll believe she spoke definitively on that. Mach frequently asserts women can ONLY be attracted to "David's V" and no other man will keep a woman for long unless he looks that way. I'm nearly positive FW was trying to get him to understand he's wrong about that assertion,not wrong about the fact that women can be attracted to the V.


Are you going to hold her up to the same level of proof and scrutiny?

Just saying.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

JCD said:


> Are you going to hold her up to the same level of proof and scrutiny?
> 
> Just saying.


what exactly are you "just saying" anyway? I mean,what's the point?


----------



## JCD

ScarletBegonias said:


> that's between the two of you then. Not sure why you're being prickly about her and bringing her up when she's not even in this conversation. but ok. you rock out with that if it makes you feel better


Sorry. I am getting a bit riled up. I went back to examine a few things kipani said and I found three (3) posts by FW about how 'men (me) think all young women should ONLY be attracted to old guys' in two pages. Nothing added. No quotes or proof.

Just honk honk honk.

I shouldn't stoop to her level.

He's a hottie. But I bet he farts in bed.


----------



## over20

:rofl::rofl::rofl:


----------



## samyeagar

not recognizable said:


> So, she's supposed to tell her husband not to look? Dictate to him? That'll go over well!


A few more thoughts on this...

It is very nuanced, but there is a difference between behavior modification and changing or controlling someone. My STBW, much like Faithful Wife is an extremely sexual woman. When we first met, she would openly ogle, comment, provoke...behaviors she had engaged in her entire life. As we grew together, she came to respect me as a man, and my feelings. I had no desire to stifle her sexuality...on the contrary, I wanted it in full force, and so rather than tell her to knock it off all the time, I found ways to get her to redirect and focus that sexual energy on me. The end result has been that I have a woman who used to physically need sex 3-4 times a week, that now desires sex with me 10+ times a week.


----------



## 45188

Whats a V shaped man? I like a pretty face on a guy and a slim body. I don't like muscle heads or fat guys. Most girls I know prefer this shape. 

http://imabeautygeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/ian-somerhalder-shirtless-black-white.jpg

My mom likes muscleheads though, but I'm pretty sure she'd take a pretty face over a muscled body. The guys in porn are a total turnoff, because they're too muscly and have super ugly faces. Soooo ugly.. I don't care if they have the popes personality, would not tap. Ill just say those chicks are really earning their way screwing guys that ugly.

I know some girls who like fat guys too, but to each their own imo.


----------



## samyeagar

kipani said:


> *Whats a V shaped man*? I like a pretty face on a guy and a slim body. I don't like muscle heads or fat guys. Most girls I know prefer this shape.
> 
> http://imabeautygeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/ian-somerhalder-shirtless-black-white.jpg
> 
> My mom likes muscleheads though, but I'm pretty sure she'd take a pretty face over a muscled body. The guys in porn are a total turnoff, because they're too muscly and have super ugly faces. Soooo ugly.. I don't care if they have the popes personality, would not tap. Ill just say those chicks are really earning their way screwing guys that ugly.
> 
> I know some girls who like fat guys too, but to each their own imo.


Let me google that for you

ETA: Not a perfect angle, but something approximating this:


----------



## over20

Nice broad, strong shoulders and trim waist. Yummy


----------



## karma*girl

Sam, I'm really glad you're here. This is exactly what I'm thinking. I don't want to stifle his sexuality by any means, I love that part of him.
My dilemma is how to go about bringing it up, without sounding controlling or making him feel resentful. I wonder if I brought up the conversation if he'll keep denying it. 
What do I do in that case? 

It's amazing to know that it is something that doesn't have to take over guy's minds if they don't let it. It seems like the consensus is to just let him be & don't be so insecure.

I wonder how many men would feel the same when their wife decides, hey, guess what, from now on, here's the deal. Every time I come across a decent looking guy, I'm going to forget you & free myself up to rate his ****ability, I'm going to let my mind wander about how thick his **** is & how I want to rip his clothes off right there..hmm, how might it feel pinning me down on the bed? 
Just a quick little fantasy, babe, it has nothing to do with you! Don't worry though, I still love you.
I even promise that when I get all horny over these thoughts about other women, I'll make sure to come straight to you so you too, can feel how horny they made me. 

Now can you see where (some) women are coming from?
Yet we are crazy to feel insecure or question him on it. blah.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## livnlearn

I think Kipani is right in saying younger people are not, in the strict physical sense, attracted to old men. I think everyone here can agree that a tight young body, male or female, is more aesthetically pleasing then an old, sagging body. Those that are arguing that younger women can definitely be attracted to an older man, are right, but the attraction is a result of more, or possibly, exclusively, something other then physical. JCD is right in saying some women are attracted to status and power, but is misguided if he thinks that these women aren't consciously paying a price. They have just decided that money and status are top of their priority list. Take the young girlfriend of fashion designer Roberto Cavalli...trust me...she is  but has decided dignity is a small price to pay for mansions and luxurious vacations.

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1200124/thumbs/o-ROBERTO-CAVALLI-HOSED-DOWN-570.jpg?6


----------



## JCD

karma*girl said:


> Sam, I'm really glad you're here. This is exactly what I'm thinking. I don't want to stifle his sexuality by any means, I love that part of him.
> My dilemma is how to go about bringing it up, without sounding controlling or making him feel resentful. I wonder if I brought up the conversation if he'll keep denying it.
> What do I do in that case?
> 
> It's amazing to know that it is something that doesn't have to take over guy's minds if they don't let it. It seems like the consensus is to just let him be & don't be so insecure.
> 
> I wonder how many men would feel the same when their wife decides, hey, guess what, from now on, here's the deal. Every time I come across a decent looking guy, I'm going to forget you & free myself up to rate his ****ability, I'm going to let my mind wander about how thick his **** is & how I want to rip his clothes off right there..hmm, how might it feel pinning me down on the bed?
> Just a quick little fantasy, babe, it has nothing to do with you! Don't worry though, I still love you.
> I even promise that when I get all horny over these thoughts about other women, I'll make sure to come straight to you so you too, can feel how horny they made me.
> 
> Now can you see where (some) women are coming from?
> Yet we are crazy to feel insecure or question him on it. blah.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Is this what you think he is doing with that one glance?


----------



## samyeagar

karma*girl said:


> Sam, I'm really glad you're here. This is exactly what I'm thinking. I don't want to stifle his sexuality by any means, I love that part of him.
> My dilemma is how to go about bringing it up, without sounding controlling or making him feel resentful. I wonder if I brought up the conversation if he'll keep denying it.
> What do I do in that case?
> 
> It's amazing to know that it is something that doesn't have to take over guy's minds if they don't let it. It seems like the consensus is to just let him be & don't be so insecure.
> 
> I wonder how many men would feel the same when their wife decides, hey, guess what, from now on, here's the deal. Every time I come across a decent looking guy, I'm going to forget you & free myself up to rate his ****ability, I'm going to let my mind wander about how thick his **** is & how I want to rip his clothes off right there..hmm, how might it feel pinning me down on the bed?
> Just a quick little fantasy, babe, it has nothing to do with you! Don't worry though, I still love you.
> I even promise that when I get all horny over these thoughts about other women, I'll make sure to come straight to you so you too, can feel how horny they made me.
> 
> Now can you see where (some) women are coming from?
> Yet we are crazy to feel insecure or question him on it. blah.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I imagine he will keep denying it. I am not sure why he does not get it, or why he doesn't or can't understand what this is doing to you. The key in communication is to keep the focus on yourself, how his actions make you feel. ie. When you do this, I feel like this, and I don't like feeling that way. It is up to him at that point to either modify his behavior and respect your feelings, or chose not to respect you. It's as simple as that. I am very fortunate that my STBW sees the value I bring to the relationship and finds me more rewarding than certain behaviors.

I am not delusional enough to think that she doesn't still notice, or have some of the same thoughts she used to vocalize, but there is nothing I can do about that. The biggest difference is that she is now far more vocal in her thoughts about me. She seemed to have a filter wqhen it came to me...no problems saying things about other men, but couldn't bring herself to say them about me even though when asked, she said yeah, she had the same thoughts. That was something I could not relate to. I'm kind of the exact opposite...I vocalize my thoughts about her all the time, no matter if they are sweet and lovey, or totally crude. Never say a word about any other women.

I am like you in that I am not really interested in knowingly being her masturbation tool...her getting all horned up by some other dude, and using me as her tool for release.


----------



## JCD

livnlearn said:


> I think Kipani is right in saying younger people are not, in the strict physical sense, attracted to old men. I think everyone here can agree that a tight young body, male or female, is more aesthetically pleasing then an old, sagging body. Those that are arguing that younger women can definitely be attracted to an older man, are right, but the attraction is a result of more, or possibly, exclusively, something other then physical. JCD is right in saying some women are attracted to status and power, but is misguided if he thinks that these women aren't consciously paying a price. They have just decided that money and status are top of their priority list. Take the young girlfriend of fashion designer Roberto Cavalli...trust me...she is  but has decided dignity is a small price to pay for mansions and luxurious vacations.
> 
> http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1200124/thumbs/o-ROBERTO-CAVALLI-HOSED-DOWN-570.jpg?6


What one is attracted to is (almost) morally neutral. The worst example I can think of is Anna Nicole Smith, who pretty much gave up everything for the 'big bank'.

But the girls who think in status and power aren't (I don't think...but I haven't questioned all of them...and neither have my critics...just saying) really focusing on the bucks per se.

What do I mean? Nurse Faith is in the hospital. Dr. Troy Goodbody shows up. Everyone talked about the fact that THE Troy Goodbody was coming HERE. He has a good physique for his age. He has some looks left. He has the confidence of someone who routinely faces life and death and he's pretty much won every time. He carries little lollipops in his white jacket for the kids in oncology.

Oh...and he has a SH*T TON of money.

Would Nurse Faith say 'wow...let me get my claws into those bucks!"

Or would she tell herself 'he is a great attractive package' without actually defining all the po$itive$ in her head?

I think the later. 

Just like Kipani said about Liam's character.

He was good looking
He moved like a Physical Alpha
He was hawt killing things
He had high status (she says she didn't care about that. Maybe...maybe not)
And...he was old.

Because she is attracted to that character (ALL of that character, including the status, stable home, and neaderthal aggression), I think she ignores the 'old balls'.

Age isn't an attractant. It is 'if she is attracted, the age becomes irrelevant'.


----------



## Jellybeans

JCD said:


> It is 'if she is attracted, the age becomes irrelevant'.


:iagree:

Attracton is what it is. A younger woman can absolutely find an older man physically attractive. Sometimes it is what it is. Who can really explain it? It just happens. The older man I was dating, it was automatic for me. It was like ZING. And I thought he was in his late 30s, or early 40s, no lie. How wrong I was. LOL


----------



## Machiavelli

Jellybeans said:


> No. He is fine no matter whether he's clean-shaven or dirrrty. Oooh la la.


The sun rises in the East everyday and the "golden ratio" V-torso strikes again.

Utterly predictable.


----------



## Machiavelli

kipani said:


> I don't like overly broad shoulders, but slim waist and not too big on the muscles please. :| http://cdn01.cdn.socialitelife.com/...r-shirtless-abduction-02152012-05-435x580.jpg


Yet, again. Golden Ratio physique.


----------



## Jellybeans

Machiavelli said:


> The sun rises in the East everyday and the "golden ratio" V-torso strikes again.
> 
> Utterly predictable.


I don't even know what that is but if you say so, ok. But I would with Jason Momoa. Over and over again. Oh yes. 

Although I'd be hard-pressed to find someone who didn't think he was physically attractive. It's like Salma Hayek. To deny her beauty is rubbish.


----------



## Machiavelli

ScarletBegonias said:


> Find the quote for me then I'll believe she spoke definitively on that. Mach frequently asserts women can ONLY be attracted to "David's V" and no other man will keep a woman for long unless he looks that way. I'm nearly positive FW was trying to get him to understand he's wrong about that assertion,not wrong about the fact that women can be attracted to the V.


Bullsh!t. I never said women "can only" be attracted to a V-torso. I said it's the primary visual attractor of women, followed, sometimes superseded by, visible inguinal ligaments and six pack. 

As far as keeping a woman goes, after I became obese, I still retained by wife. Now, she lost "lost her libido" and generally became vaguely unhaaaapy, but she didn't leave. When I returned to form, she suddenly found her libido and became much happier.


----------



## always_alone

Machiavelli said:


> The sun rises in the East everyday and the "golden ratio" V-torso strikes again.
> 
> Utterly predictable.


Oh yeah, we evolved to be this way don'tcha know. Just take a gander at this male's V torso, and clearly his woman has all the right ratios too! Not to mention that beautiful shiny hair!










Yep, clearly all hardwired in since our earliest ancestors!


----------



## ScarletBegonias

Machiavelli said:


> Bullsh!t. I never said women "can only" be attracted to a V-torso. I said it's the primary visual attractor of women, followed, sometimes superseded by, visible inguinal ligaments and six pack.
> 
> As far as keeping a woman goes, after I became obese, I still retained by wife. Now, she lost "lost her libido" and generally became vaguely unhaaaapy, but she didn't leave. When I returned to form, she suddenly found her libido and became much happier.


 I've read enough to know your view on women so don't tell me bullsh*t. I have absolutely NOTHING else to say to you.


----------



## Machiavelli

Jellybeans said:


> *I don't even know what that is* but if you say so, ok. But I would with Jason Momoa. Over and over again. Oh yes.
> 
> Although I'd be hard-pressed to find someone who didn't think he was physically attractive. It's like Salma Hayek. To deny her beauty is rubbish.


Golden Ratio for physique is basically that a man's waist measurement should be approx .67 of that of his shoulders; a woman's waist measurement should be approx .67 of that of her hips.


----------



## Machiavelli

ScarletBegonias said:


> I've read enough to know your view on women so don't tell me bullsh*t. I have absolutely NOTHING else to say to you.


so, why kick the bear and then run away?


----------



## Machiavelli

always_alone said:


> Oh yeah, we evolved to be this way don'tcha know. Just take a gander at this male's V torso, and clearly his woman has all the right ratios too! Not to mention that beautiful shiny hair!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, clearly all hardwired in since our earliest ancestors!


Do you really think those are **** Sapiens?


----------



## ScarletBegonias

Machiavelli said:


> so, why kick the bear and then run away?


ROFL did you seriously just post that. what bear?? I see no bear here.

Also,I'm not running away. I'm choosing to leave what will become an unproductive ridiculous mess of a conversation. That's what ALL interactions with you and other ladies from the site eventually end up becoming. You,your views,and your posts aren't worth my time.


----------



## always_alone

Machiavelli said:


> Do you really think those are **** Sapiens?


Obviously not. But you seem to think our sexual preferences date back to the Neanderthal (quite possibly a distinct species as well), and I assume that these too must have evolved from somewhere.

And, unfortunately, it's very difficult to find pics of early humans with their skin still on. Most look something like this:










When do you suppose these preferences evolved? 

I submit that it's a large pile of BS, as evidenced by the utterly ludicrous nature of the studies and claims of those who adhere to it.


----------



## Jellybeans

This thread is great. It has been an education on men ogling women disrespectfully, a workshop in the demeaning terms used for women, women-hating, a lesson in old man versus young man attractiveness, MRAs, whether Liam Neeson is only hot because he is portrayed as "virile" on film, the plight of mail-order brides and the men who shop for them, women's oppression, v-shaped torsos, biology, psychological theories, and now we are into straight up homosapien evolutionary science.

You guys are a wonderful group. Really, we should give a lecture. Five extra points if you show up to class early.

Hahahahahaha.


----------



## 45188

Body hair is gross too. :|


----------



## Cosmos

ScarletBegonias said:


> ROFL did you seriously just post that. what bear?? I see no bear here.
> 
> Also,I'm not running away. I'm choosing to leave what will become an unproductive ridiculous mess of a conversation. That's what ALL interactions with you and other ladies from the site eventually end up becoming. You,your views,and your posts aren't worth my time.


More like batting away a rather pesky and quarrelsome gnat...


----------



## Jellybeans

kipani said:


> Body hair is gross too. :|


SURE it is. If you're oppressed! Haha I kid, Kipani (but no I am not kidding at all). 

I love hair on a man. It's masculine. You Tarzan, me Jane. 

Sometimes I think you are taking the piss out of us with your posts because I can't imagine it's FOR REALS, bro!


----------



## samyeagar

Jellybeans said:


> SURE it is. If you're oppressed! Haha I kid, Kipani (but no I am not kidding at all).
> 
> I love hair on a man. It's masculine. You Tarzan, me Jane.
> 
> Sometimes I think you are taking the piss out of us with your posts because I can't imagine it's FOR *REALZ*, bro!


Fixzzed it for ya brah!


----------



## learning to love myself

Jellybeans said:


> In his defense, it's hard NOT to notice someone with next to nothing on. Men and women alike. Your eyes WILL notice. It's human nature.


I Guess I'm a freak, I love to people watch, my husband and I will go to the boardwalk every once in awhile and sit for a few hours watching everyone.

Some people wear very little and some you would think they were in the snow. I can careless if my husband looks as long as he isn't an @ss about it. 

Every once is awhile he has lost it when a guy has checked me out to long. Most of the time I'm dressed in regular clothing (shirt/jeans). 

It is human nature to look at people, I'm tall and a DDD. 
I notice both Men and woman look at me a lot, I assumed it was because of my big blue eyes :rofl:


----------



## youkiddingme

I think we should all go to the mall, sit on a bench and be annoyed by some ****ty looking women.. for a few hours.


----------



## Jellybeans

samyeagar said:


> Fixzzed it for ya brah!


HAHAHA YES FOR REALZZZZZ....thank you, Sam!


----------



## samyeagar

Jellybeans said:


> HAHAHA YES FOR REALZZZZZ....thank you, Sam!


Always glad to be of service m'lady


----------



## learning to love myself

ScarletBegonias said:


> Is it wrong I like him better when he's filthy,hairy,and scary??


Not at all! 

If that's wrong I don't want to be right.


----------



## Jellybeans

Meeee, tooooooooooooooooo!


----------



## learning to love myself

kipani said:


> Nah, I'm serious. Body hair isn't sexy to me. Has the opposite effect honestly. I like em clean shaven. I'm taking a facebook poll hahaha.


There is a happy medium on this for me, as long as their back isn't harry and there front don't look like a sweater, I'm all good. 

I think a man must have the hair happy trail... yum very sexy!


----------



## SimplyAmorous

samyeagar said:


> *I make it very uncomfortable for other men to check out my STBW*.


You are like my H in many ways but not in this.. all he cares about is *safety*..that's it.. he isn't into having a confrontation with anyone.. or staring them down (like FW's husband).....if we can remove ourselves from something uncomfortable ...that's how we'd handle....



> *Tornado said:** I guess what I was saying was that I don't really pay attention whether or not guys are eyeing my wife. If someone approached her in a inappropriate manner then I would definitely have plenty to say*.


In our early years....walking into a Mall... some guy asked me out *right in front of my husband*, he had to be looking for a fight... I am happy he didn't act all macho ....or get in his face...he let me handle that... what if that guy had a knife or something....we don't know... ...we walked away.. we drove home, we'd never see him again...life is good. Now IF he reached to lay a hand on me, Husband would have done anything to protect me.. the adrenaline would kick in immediately.. we've never faced anything like that.. 



> *samyeagar said*: *There is a difference between jealousy and mate guarding, and mate guarding IS relationship guarding behavior. I am not worried in the least about my STBW cheating on me in the sense that I can actually DO something to stop her, but yeah, I do a hell of a lot to meet her needs, loved, adored, respected, and yes, protected. I also rock her world in bed. The beautiful thing is, she does the same for me*.


 I am not really sure what the *mate guarding* is.. just catching a few posts on this thread.. runaway topic!!

I don't think me or husband does that ..... we are just *radically transparent *with each other over everything... we go just about everywhere together too..... It would not bother me in the least if I saw him talking to some woman over there laughing, having a good time or he saw me shooting the breeze with an old male friend, we'd just join each other.. and when we walked away...we'd talk about what all was said.. if anything is juicy...even more so... "strangers" are a little different... need more Caution there... 



Cosmos said:


> *This is very true, Sam, but Karma's H's behaviour sounds crazy making. He ogles other women in front of her (double takes and rubber-necking are not glances), which leaves her feeling embarrassed and disrespected, then denies having done it.
> 
> Frankly? I think he knows exactly what he's doing and enjoys getting a rise out of her.*


I really feel when something hurts a spouse.. and they feel slighted...whatever it is.. if a wife is seeking for her husband to listen more...showing more affection.... words of affirmation, EROTIC affirmation ....this goes a long way to build us up...so these things slide off of us...cause we feel so loved , wanted, needed at home.....learning to squeeze his wife and affirm her more often so she doesn't feel this way.. 



samyeagar said:


> When you behave this way, it make me feel like this. I can't be in a relationship where I feel like this.
> 
> *No demand, but quite clear. It's not about HER telling him how to behave. It's about HIM respecting her feelings. The choice is his...stare at the other women, or respect his wife's feelings...which one is more important to him?*


:iagree:


----------



## SimplyAmorous

learning to love myself said:


> *I Guess I'm a freak, I love to people watch, my husband and I will go to the boardwalk every once in awhile and sit for a few hours watching everyone.
> 
> Some people wear very little and some you would think they were in the snow. I can careless if my husband looks as long as he isn't an @ss about it.*


 We are the same way.. ENJOY it.... makes life ENTERTAINING.... I'm a freak too!..Never been on the Boardwalk though...just playing Monopoly!


----------



## Deejo

Did I mention that when I go grocery shopping in my bike pants ... in January ... that I also stuff an eggplant down the front of my shorts?

I like to make a statement.


----------



## samyeagar

SimplyAmorous said:


> You are like my H in many ways but not in this.. all he cares about is *safety*..that's it.. he isn't into having a confrontation with anyone.. or staring them down (like FW's husband).....if we can remove ourselves from something uncomfortable ...that's how we'd handle....


I'm not talking about a confrontation at all. If we can avoid anything like that we will, but at the same time, I'm not going to back down if necessary. Ignoring is the first line, but if I have to send the message that lines are being crossed, and I will defend them, then so be it.



> In our early years....walking into a Mall... some guy asked me out *right in front of my husband*, he had to be looking for a fight... I am happy he didn't act all macho ....or get in his face...he let me handle that... what if that guy had a knife or something....we don't know... ...we walked away.. we drove home, we'd never see him again...life is good. Now IF he reached to lay a hand on me, Husband would have done anything to protect me.. the adrenaline would kick in immediately.. we've never faced anything like that..


Along with what I said above, my STBW would have the first chance to diffuse the situation for sure, but again, I'm there if needed, and my presence is known, and no, I'm not talking about being all macho...that's just not my style.



> I am not really sure what the *mate guarding* is.. just catching a few posts on this thread.. runaway topic!!
> 
> I don't think me or husband does that ..... we are just *radically transparent *with each other over everything... we go just about everywhere together too..... It would not bother me in the least if I saw him talking to some woman over there laughing, having a good time or he saw me shooting the breeze with an old male friend, we'd just join each other.. and when we walked away...we'd talk about what all was said.. if anything is juicy...even more so... "strangers" are a little different... need more Caution there...


The thing is SA, what you just described IS mate guarding, and relationship guarding...being present, letting others know you are there, and making it clear that you are WITH your partner...


----------



## karma*girl

SA, you are so right..you get where I am coming from, thank you!
If he was more affirming & held me closer at times where I might feel there's cause for concern, it would diffuse most of my uncomfortable feelings. 
It would make me feel so much more respected & in turn, feel more respect for him. 
He has no idea how much room for growth there is regarding our intimacy..if I felt more cherished, I could feel more comfortable letting go with him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Machiavelli

always_alone said:


> Obviously not. But you seem to think our sexual preferences date back to the Neanderthal (quite possibly a distinct species as well), and I assume that these too must have evolved from somewhere.
> 
> And, unfortunately, it's very difficult to find pics of early humans with their skin still on. Most look something like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When do you suppose these preferences evolved?
> 
> I submit that it's a large pile of BS, as evidenced by the utterly ludicrous nature of the studies and claims of those who adhere to it.


Multiple studies, and a lot of empirical evidence, demonstrate that the golden HWR is pretty much a universal standard for women. Sure Africans have a slight preference for women a bit bigger in the hips and Asians a bit smaller in the hips, but it's not far off the mark. The argument is not whether this is a universal standard, but whether it was a standard in the paleolithic (sorry we're still talking about _**** sapiens_, not _Gorilla beringei_) hunter-gatherers or, as some new research that somebody posted here in the last argument claimed, it's a preference that arose in the neolithic era. Lithic refers to "stone" as in "stone age," so whether it became the human standard in the paleolithic or the neolithic matters not, it is the typical attractor and has been since time immemorial.

As for the male golden ratio SWR being the gold standard attractor for women, see the photos the women posted here. Of men, not gorillas. Zoophilia is an outlier.


----------



## always_alone

Machiavelli said:


> Lithic refers to "stone" as in "stone age," so whether it became the human standard in the paleolithic or the neolithic matters not, it is the typical attractor and has been since time immemorial.
> 
> As for the male golden ratio SWR being the gold standard attractor for women, see the photos the women posted here. Of men, not gorillas. Zoophilia is an outlier.


Actually, the photos women have posted demonstrate quite a range of body types. Just as the research finds with respect to the preferences of men.

Perhaps you need to sharpen your observation and research skills?


----------



## samyeagar

always_alone said:


> Actually, the photos women have posted demonstrate quite a range of body types. Just as the research finds with respect to the preferences of men.
> 
> Perhaps you need to sharpen your observation and research skills?


Of course there is variation, but I imagine if you took 100 women and had them rank men on hotness based on pictures that showed their physique without any props such as footballs or guitars, or fabricated persona's and fantasies, there would be a lot of overlap in the womens top ten, and even moreso in their top 20, and those top ranked men would fit pretty close to that so called golden ratio many of the pictures on this thread display.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## always_alone

samyeagar said:


> Of course there is variation, but I imagine if you took 100 women and had them rank men on hotness based on pictures that showed their physique without any props such as footballs or guitars, or fabricated persona's and fantasies, there would be a lot of overlap in the womens top ten, and even moreso in their top 20, and those top ranked men would fit pretty close to that so called golden ratio many of the pictures on this thread display.


Research shows substantial individual and cross cultural variation in what counts as sexually attractive for both men and woman.

The real golden ratio was determined by the Greeks, and is Phi - 1.618, and is supposedly found all throughout nature, including various body parts and faces. And as much art is modeled in it, you can certainly find plenty of images that rely on it -- but since this includes everything from architecture to flower petals, it doesn't necessarily tell us a whole lot about sexual attraction.

And a closer look at both the male waist-shoulder and the female waist-hip shows variations from somewhere in the .4 range, all the way up to 1, and even beyond, depending on culture and time period. Pretty much the entire range of what's humanly possible.


----------



## always_alone

Deejo said:


> Did I mention that when I go grocery shopping in my bike pants ... in January ... that I also stuff an eggplant down the front of my shorts?
> 
> I like to make a statement.


Careful, Deejo. Remember that proportion is key. It can't be too big or too small -- it has to be just right.

Maybe a zucchini?


----------



## samyeagar

always_alone said:


> Research shows substantial individual and cross cultural variation in what counts as sexually attractive for both men and woman.
> 
> The real golden ratio was determined by the Greeks, and is Phi - 1.618, and is supposedly found all throughout nature, including various body parts and faces. And as much art is modeled in it, you can certainly find plenty of images that rely on it -- but since this includes everything from architecture to flower petals, it doesn't necessarily tell us a whole lot about sexual attraction.
> 
> And a closer look at both the male waist-shoulder and the female waist-hip shows variations from somewhere in the .4 range, all the way up to 1, and even beyond, depending on culture and time period. Pretty much the entire range of what's humanly possible.


Again, of course there will be variation, especially among individuals, but there are physical features and appearances that are considered universally attractive within a given society. Universal should not be confused with absolute because there are no absolutes, there is variation, but I imagine that some of the men posted on this thread, a majority of women in western Caucasian society would find very attractive.


----------



## Deejo

*Re: Re: The annoyance of ****ty looking women..*



always_alone said:


> Careful, Deejo. Remember that proportion is key. It can't be too big or too small -- it has to be just right.
> 
> Maybe a zucchini?


Its an heirloom eggplant. Only the best quality. I have standards.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

> *samyeagar said*: *Along with what I said above, my STBW would have the first chance to diffuse the situation for sure, but again, I'm there if needed, and my presence is known, and no, I'm not talking about being all macho...that's just not my style.*


Sounds good :smthumbup:... yeah this makes sense.. this is HOW we would deal too.. we've talked about these sorts of scenarios..... we both have an understanding...(and it's purely between US, we are the ones who have a commitment)... 

We can't control how other people ARE.....what they say, if they stare...how they look at us...how they dress... *that's on them*.....but we have control how *WE* act... what atmosphere we put ourselves in, what we DO WITH IT....from getting caught up ...allowing a receptive glance of interest, an inviting  from across a room....stuff like that....in this we show Respect by NOT going there......or lack there of... 

So if one of us crosses that line...it would cause hurt, feeling slighted.. Less than.. no doubt!....we'll be having a talk..we'd both be very open about that ...I know I would.... I've never had to have such a talk with my husband in all our years....

He's just the type that if he was with a group of dirty men with their eye balls popping out of their heads saying "Damn I'd like to tap that"....I could be a fly on the wall , he wouldn't do anything to dishonor his wife with his comments....that's just how he is...I fully trust him....I'm happy to say he's never had to have that sort of talk with me either... he knows what he brings to my life.



> *karma*girl said *: SA, you are so right..you get where I am coming from, thank you!
> *If he was more affirming & held me closer at times where I might feel there's cause for concern, it would diffuse most of my uncomfortable feelings.
> It would make me feel so much more respected & in turn, feel more respect for him.
> He has no idea how much room for growth there is regarding our intimacy..if I felt more cherished, I could feel more comfortable letting go with him*.


I would feel the same Karma*girl...from what you have said here ....sounds you are THIRSTING for more from your husband...more intimacy, his attentions on YOU...just you...hearing how he deeply feels... wants you... am I right ??

If these emotional needs were flowing ..your cup being filled at home...this would also come with you when out & about.. but because you are struggling in some way with your husband...each look *is* suspicious.. any wife would feel the same here...

Ya know..so what do you do...you only want to bring this up so many times....Either you start checking out men in front of him... or shake it up a little...

He doesn't want YOU to dress like that.... yet his excuses are wearing thin on his own behavior..... Dress HOT...a little revealing, tight jeans, low cut shirt...heels....walk out of the house... let yourself feel the ego boost when others gaze upon you...in HIS presence.... that you, too...can shake it up to get a rise out of someone else... 

Sometimes it takes an experience to wake others up.. just sharing our feelings isn't enough for some.. sad to say.

Is this the same Guy ? ...







*>>>*









I find the 1st one







...(got a thing for men & long hair )...but the 2nd... I wouldn't notice him any more than a Grandpa walking past.. the beard utterly destroys it for me...and he looks too macho..


----------



## JCD

samyeagar said:


> Of course there is variation, but I imagine if you took 100 women and had them rank men on hotness based on pictures that showed their physique without any props such as footballs or guitars, or fabricated persona's and fantasies, there would be a lot of overlap in the womens top ten, and even moreso in their top 20, and those top ranked men would fit pretty close to that so called golden ratio many of the pictures on this thread display.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Some of the women seem to take great offense at the suggestion that women are in anyway predictable and/or shallow.

See, they are delicate and individual flowers unlike us surly men who all the same.

This despite MULTIPLE posts where large segments greenlit Liam Neeson (old) , and then Jason (The V) Momoa

They are just delicate and individual flowers who seem to like a lot of the same things


----------



## Machiavelli

always_alone said:


> Actually, the photos women have posted demonstrate quite a range of body types. Just as the research finds with respect to the preferences of men.
> 
> Perhaps you need to sharpen your observation and research skills?


These are the only two physiques posted by women in the thread and they're the same V torso male. Universally acclaimed by all female posters in one or the other guise. Still a V torso either way.

















ETA: and with regards to women, remember most men are or can be attracted to most women, no matter their WHR. Men are looking for a reason to get it out with the most attractive woman available, and that's a very flexible standard. All the WHR measures is _preference_, not necessarily selection.


----------



## JCD

Machiavelli said:


> These are the only two physiques posted by women in the thread and they're the same V torso male. Universally acclaimed by all female posters in one or the other guise. Still a V torso either way.


Okay, when you are correct, you are correct.

However, SB also posted that guy from Food Channel. Kipani also posted that she prefers a bit less V and a lot more H, a rail thin pretty boy whom you can count the ribs.

And Liam is NOT a V. He has other factors going on. His other factors are *so going on* that the women don't care that he is the age of their fathers or grandfathers.

Let's not push TOO hard. A lot of people are attracted to her










However, she honestly does very little for me, despite having the correct body parts in the correct ratios. So much so, I even avoid her movies. 

So I believe in general rules...but they are VERY general. I take offense when women seem to pretend that they don't exist at all.


----------



## always_alone

Machiavelli said:


> These are the only two physiques posted by women in the thread and they're the same V torso male. Universally acclaimed by all female posters in one or the other guise. Still a V torso either way.


There were other images posted that were quite different. And no, even this guy wasn't universally approved of, even among the small sample of women on this thread.

I know it's tempting to change the facts to fit your theory, but I think it's really the theory that's wrong.


----------



## always_alone

samyeagar said:


> Again, of course there will be variation, especially among individuals, but there are physical features and appearances that are considered universally attractive within a given society.


Fashions and trends, to be sure. But I wouldn't use the term universal. Even restricted to Western Caucasian women (or men), I've seen plenty of disagreement over what counts as sexy.


----------



## always_alone

Deejo said:


> Its an heirloom eggplant. Only the best quality. I have standards.


Ohhh, heirloom. That's all right then. Carry on.


----------



## JCD

Okay, let's get back to the OP.


She says, and many of you agree, that she FEELS disrespected by a 1-2 second glance, one or two times in an encounter (Four seconds tops). She feels diminished, that he wants to have sex with her instead of his spouse, and that it is OUT OF BOUNDS.

Okay. Let us take all that as granted. She feels bad. I agree that there is sufficient scope that he should change his behavior out of respect. Right? This is what it is all about: respecting one's spouse.

Now...her husband comes up to her a month or two later. "Brad from Accounting has danced with you three times. I don't like the way he looks at you. When I bring this up, you say you are a big girl and can handle your boundaries. (*how does this not apply to his glances, btw?*) However, I feel delegitimized and sidelined. I think you should change jobs."

After all...this isn't 4 seconds with a stranger. It's 8 hours a day with a suspicious 'friend'. 

Should she change her behavior to mollify her husbands feelings or is the husband being 'too controlling'?

If it is too controlling on the husband's part, why is it not controlling on the wife's part?

Do her feelings over a glance mean more than his feelings over a co-worker or do you feel that her 'autonomy' at having and liking her job trumps her husbands feelings?

Please explain.


----------



## Machiavelli

always_alone said:


> There were other images posted that were quite different. And no, even this guy wasn't universally approved of, even among the small sample of women on this thread.
> 
> I know it's tempting to change the facts to fit your theory, but I think it's really the theory that's wrong.


What other torso pictures did women post? Show us.


----------



## Machiavelli

JCD said:


> Okay, when you are correct, you are correct.
> 
> However, SB also posted that guy from Food Channel. Kipani also posted that she prefers a bit less V and a lot more H, a rail thin pretty boy whom you can count the ribs.


Remember, i specified physique shots posted by women. Food Channel boy was not a physique shot, he was dressed in a winter jacket. A male poster did put up a physique shot of some low body fat no-muslce guy, but again, I'm only interested in those posted by women. Even the skinny guy may be V, but you can't tell from the angle. Remember, a guy with a 28" waist only needs to be 42" around the shoulders to make the grade.



JCD said:


> And Liam is NOT a V. He has other factors going on. His other factors are *so going on* that the women don't care that he is the age of their fathers or grandfathers.


Yeah, but again Liam's dressed and only shown from the shoulders up. Not a physique shot.



JCD said:


> So I believe in general rules...but they are VERY general. I take offense when women seem to pretend that they don't exist at all.


Solipsism is a classic female characteristic, as we see in the comments.


----------



## Cosmos

always_alone said:


> There were other images posted that were quite different. And no, even this guy wasn't universally approved of, even among the small sample of women on this thread.
> 
> I know it's tempting to change the facts to fit your theory, but I think it's really the theory that's wrong.



AA, regarding the pictures you're referring to:-

Pic 1: Attractive (to me), mainly because of what he's doing - ie he looks like an action man. Personally, though, too much upper body / arm muscle, which disappears into a small waistline.

Pic 2: Unattractive (to me). Too much upper body muscle, almost giving the appearance of man boobs.

I like a man to have broad shoulders and strong looking limbs, but I'm not attracted to an overly defined, long waisted V shaped torso. In fact, I find it _un_attractive.


----------



## Holland

I also like a man to have broad shoulder and strong looking limbs. And Cosmos I'm with you that the long waisted V torso is neither here not there for me. Not unattractive but not attractive really.

Give me a man with broad shoulders, strong arms and legs of steel and I am all his. And I am all his and love him to pieces. He isn't the ratio thing that gets thrown around here like it is the golden ticket but he is sexy as hell and I cannot get enough of him.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Machiavelli said:


> What other torso pictures did women post? Show us.


This is my preferred







....(and No, I don't like girls, no lesbian in me)...the less bulk to his boobs the better for me, I like Lanky, baby faced... if this walked past me...I'd do a double take...did that once on a walking trail.. looked like a young Axel Rose ...long blonde hair, bandana , ripped levi's...boots...OH my!... I turned around & acted like I wanted to get a another picture of the waterfall... and husband says "I know what you're checking out" ....he knows me so well.. but ya know.. I squeezed him tight.. told him he was the only one for me , kissed him right there.. and he let me know he was checking out the chick.. . good for him!! 

Some may find that disrespectful.. but we don't...I'm telling it true... it's just another opportunity to re-affirm how much we love each other, but we look too.. so not a big deal...

One thing my husband knows about me... the men that LOOK LIKE THIS are really NOT my type... personality wise I'd want to spit them out & probably kill them....I prefer the Geek... the responsible Romantic deep thinking intellectual....these Rock star types are too wild, too many women, drinkers, probably do drugs... I don't even like smoking for goodness sakes...the lifestyle screws it to hell & back...yet "the look" is part of the fantasy...


----------



## JCD

Does that have a penis? Just checking...


----------



## Jellybeans

:rofl:

Sebastian Bach.


----------



## heartsbeating

Love letters in the sand... I remember you...!


----------



## ScarletBegonias

I once dated a guy briefly who looked exactly like that dude. He was fun Spent way too much time on his hair though


----------



## heartsbeating

Deejo said:


> Did I mention that when I go grocery shopping in my bike pants ... in January ... that I also stuff an eggplant down the front of my shorts?
> 
> I like to make a statement.


:lol:


----------



## Jellybeans

heartsbeating said:


> I remember you...!


Love! Haha. And Prince, you know.


----------



## heartsbeating

Jellybeans said:


> This thread is great. It has been an education on men ogling women disrespectfully, a workshop in the demeaning terms used for women, women-hating, a lesson in old man versus young man attractiveness, MRAs, whether Liam Neeson is only hot because he is portrayed as "virile" on film, the plight of mail-order brides and the men who shop for them, women's oppression, v-shaped torsos, biology, psychological theories, and now we are into straight up homosapien evolutionary science.
> 
> You guys are a wonderful group. Really, we should give a lecture. Five extra points if you show up to class early.
> 
> Hahahahahaha.


Cliff notes, purrrfect!


----------



## heartsbeating

Jellybeans said:


> Love! Haha. And Prince, you know.


----------



## Jellybeans

That guy has more sex appeal in his pinky than most people do in their entire being. Hahahahaha.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Cosmos said:


> *Pic 2: Unattractive (to me)*. * Too much upper body muscle, almost giving the appearance of man boobs.*










...Man boobs...just ruins it.. too many defined ripples .. a man built like a TANK... legs of iron.. when his arms are as big as my thighs....for instance....a Pro football players body ....I've never been attracted to this....



> *JCD said: **Does that have a penis? Just checking*...


 I always expect these sorts of comments.....maybe it's the craft.. I love love love Rock MUSIC...takes me away....these men make the music I crave, get excited over.... I go for the Head Banging * look* .... I made my husband grow longer hair for our wedding too.... It doesn't look good on older men though... only the young ones.. 



> *heartsbeating said*: *Love letters in the sand... I remember you..*.!


I Remember you ...that's my favorite....and 18 and life -Skid Row... every young guy in that video...







.... but again.. not my type either!!.... the internal conflict....

This is no different than my husband salivating over LITA FORD back in the day....he gets turned on by the







Rocker diva - on the aggressive side ...black leather..maybe some chains...ha ha...but yet ....are they sensitive & sweet too, a little old fashioned ....it just doesn't mix somehow!! .......too often the looks say "Oh yeah!"... but the lifestyle is a resounding "NO!"... 








[


----------



## RandomDude

> I made my husband grow longer hair for our wedding too.... It doesn't look good on older men though... only the young ones..


:rofl:


----------



## vellocet

karma*girl said:


> I'm no prude, I don't dress overly conservative, at all.
> I think I usually look pretty good/attractive..in a classy way.
> Also, I totally understand that men (and even women) will steal a glance at someone else if they are attractive...or apparently if their 'parts' are half showing or hanging out.
> That is no secret to me. I do know it's natural & tough to avoid.
> 
> What frustrates me, as a woman/wife, is that husbands or men in general wouldn't want their own woman to dress this way in public, yet they feel free to direct their attention towards those willing to look cheap..cheap thrills are everywhere.


True, women that dress for the attention will grab a look, even by me. And in a brief second I might think of her attractiveness.

But in the moments right after that fleeting thought I just give myself a little "phfft" thinking she isn't worth a damn.

I have nothing against people making themselves look good. But I have no use for people that are in love with themselves and conceited to go to extremes to flaunt it.

Here is a pet peeve of mine. A woman goes out of her way to dress in a certain way, then complains about the attention she gets. But I suspect that attention is viewed favorably or not based on the attractiveness of the man giving her said attention.

Catch an attractive man checking her out, she's flattered.

Catch a not so attractive man checking her out, he's a pervert.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

heartsbeating said:


>





> *Jellybeans said*: *That guy has more sex appeal in his pinky than most people do in their entire being. Hahahahaha.*










My mother visited me not long ago and mentioned how she seen *"Purple Rain"* for the 1st time ...and was going on how PRINCE lit her fire...so to speak... I was laughing ... I remember feeling the same way when that movie came out! 

Why :rofl: *Random Dude*... he didn't mind- though it didn't help that he went to computer school during that time..and my wanting him to have long hair is probably why he never landed a decent job -he looked too much like a hippie.. Live & learn.. but it all worked out.


----------



## RandomDude

Cause no way in hell would I let someone tell me whether to keep my hair long and short... tis all hehehe


----------



## tornado

I've noticed that too. Some women flaunt it, then get offended if somebody looks. Hey, your the one with the boobs hanging out. I've also seen women be offended when their hit on by a unattractive man but flattered when hit on by a good looking man. Plus women are very visual, they may not ogle as much but a woman knows in seconds of meeting a guy, on looks alone if the guy has any chance or not.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

RandomDude said:


> *Cause no way in hell would I let someone tell me whether to keep my hair long and short... tis all hehehe*


My husband is very laid back, he didn't mind.. not at all.. I am not going to say I haven't been pushy in some ways..but this was not one of them....I didn't like his glasses either...and we shopped for contacts for our wedding too.. I'm so shallow ...right !...

Remember, he wasn't a "Bad boy" like you...with women crawling all over him....so ya know.. he was very happy I wanted to be with him... so if I asked for something that would turn up my jets towards him....and his knowing it...with favorable feedback to boot.....why in the world would he turn his nose to that...some may say he was a fool for love.... he wouldn't care....it all worked out pretty well.


----------



## Jellybeans

SimplyAmorous said:


> My mother visited me not long ago and mentioned how she seen *"Purple Rain"* for the 1st time ...and was going on how PRINCE lit her fire...so to speak... I was laughing ... I remember feeling the same way when that movie came out!



Haha. Your momma sounds like one cool chick, Simply!

He really has IT.


----------



## RandomDude

SimplyAmorous said:


> My husband is very laid back, he didn't mind.. not at all.. I am not going to say I haven't been pushy in some ways..but this was not one of them....I didn't like his glasses either...and we shopped for contacts for our wedding too.. I'm so shallow ...right !...
> 
> Remember, he wasn't a "Bad boy" like you...with women crawling all over him....so ya know.. he was very happy I wanted to be with him... so if I asked for something that would turn up my jets towards him....and his knowing it...with favorable feedback to boot.....why in the world would he turn his nose to that...some may say he was a fool for love.... he wouldn't care....it all worked out pretty well.


Yet he's the one with the love of his life, so I don't think the whole "bad boy" thing even matters

Still... guess it's something I can never do... thankfully I have 20/20 vision but can't imagine a woman telling me how to dress/wear tis all heh


----------



## MaritimeGuy

Deejo said:


> Did I mention that when I go grocery shopping in my bike pants ... in January ... that I also stuff an eggplant down the front of my shorts?
> 
> I like to make a statement.


And the statement is, " I like to keep my stuff warm by nestling it next to a vegetable"??!?


----------



## SimplyAmorous

RandomDude said:


> *Yet he's the one with the love of his life, so I don't think the whole "bad boy" thing even matters
> 
> Still... guess it's something I can never do... thankfully I have 20/20 vision but can't imagine a woman telling me how to dress/wear tis all heh*


 Well I bet you dressed in a way that turned heads, so why would you....

My H gave up on women before he met me...dumped twice....he wasn't into changing who he was.. internally speaking....he is what he IS... and he liked who he was - even if others didn't seem to notice...he is a NICE GUY...sensitive, caring, Romantic...I love those things.. NEED THEM.... 

On the the outward appearance...if you seen how his mother dressed him....let me tell you.. he needed some sprucing up.. we went shopping, I told him he needed some Levis.....he always wore Jc penney brand jeans... I liked BOOTS... better than tenner shoes! 

You know ...you can take a Geeky looking guy and turn him into a convincing stud with a little creativity... that's what I did...*for me*... at least I didn't turn my nose to the nice guy -like most women do immediately, I undressed him in my mind and said... "hmmmm NOT TOO BAD- I can work with that !"...

Awe give me a little credit Random Dude.. I am not that bad!!


----------



## RandomDude

Not really, I'm a "suit" nowadays, though that turns heads FOR ALL THE WRONG REASONS :rofl:

Well it seems though that your husband did need quite a lot of fashion advice lol
But he's an exception! I'm not


----------



## Machiavelli

tornado said:


> I've also seen women be offended when their hit on by a unattractive man but flattered when hit on by a good looking man. Plus women are very visual, they may not ogle as much but a woman knows in seconds of meeting a guy, on looks alone if the guy has any chance or not.


These two statements are core facts of reproductive life.

Just as we know from Sexual Harassment Training: there are 3 rules for avoiding sexual harassment complaints:

Be Handsome
Be Attractive
Don't be Unattractive


----------



## Machiavelli

SimplyAmorous said:


> My mother visited me not long ago and mentioned how she seen *"Purple Rain"* for the 1st time ...and was going on how PRINCE lit her fire...so to speak... I was laughing ... I remember feeling the same way when that movie came out!


Back even before this guy, way back in the sixties, I wondered about the appeal to women of Mick Jagger, butt ugly and f#ggy acting. Now I see it's all about appealing to unconscious female sexual fluidity.


----------



## youkiddingme

So, what is slu**y? I guess that is also up to each person. I was in line at a grocery store once. The lady in front of me was dark skinned, and wearing yoga pants. I am telling you her backside was simply amazing. Round....squeezy....simply left me speechless. I don't think it would be considered slu**y. But it was powerful. I am thankful for women that give such joy to an otherwise boring trip to the grocery store. I still think of it.


----------



## Machiavelli

SimplyAmorous said:


> .......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...Man boobs...just ruins it..


Umm...those aren't man boobs. Those are pectoral muscles.

These are man boobs:









Two ways to get those: 1) dope; 2) steroids without a proper stack. I think we know how Stevie boy got his.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

youkiddingme said:


> I am telling you her backside was simply amazing. Round....squeezy....simply left me speechless.


:rofl: I love that so much "round...squeezy"
I've seen the sort of butt that creates this kind of attention and fully agree with the descriptive words you've used here


----------



## youkiddingme

Well, I am not kidding. It made you just want a squeeze and a bite!

OMG. She left me trembling.


----------



## over20

Prince doesn't do it for me. Never has. Now Dwayne "the rock" Johnson......his look is like my DH.........fainting now!


----------



## learning to love myself

tornado said:


> I've noticed that too. Some women flaunt it, then get offended if somebody looks. Hey, your the one with the boobs hanging out. I've also seen women be offended when their hit on by a unattractive man but flattered when hit on by a good looking man. Plus women are very visual, they may not ogle as much but a woman knows in seconds of meeting a guy, on looks alone if the guy has any chance or not.


I'm a woman and I hate woman like this! If your going to market your goods expect to get looked at..

These are the same woman who scream sexual harassment if the guy isn't attractive, yet would she do that if he was hot?

I have know a few woman like this, that have had no problem with a guy acting inappropriate with her because of how he looked yet would not tolerate it from someone they didn't find attractive. 

I personally like it when I get checked out, as long as the guy isn't being stupid or creepy about it. I have had a few that have scared me by chasing me down or stocking me in stores.


----------



## MaritimeGuy

youkiddingme said:


> Well, I am not kidding. It made you just want a squeeze and a bite!
> 
> OMG. She left me trembling.


I hope your wife wasn't standing next to you at the time...or at least didn't notice you trembling...


----------



## not recognizable

MaritimeGuy said:


> I hope your wife wasn't standing next to you at the time...or at least didn't notice you trembling...


Yeah. One thing's for sure, I wouldn't want to be her.


----------



## 45188

MaritimeGuy said:


> I hope your wife wasn't standing next to you at the time...or at least didn't notice you trembling...


Yeah, wow... Poor woman.


----------



## samyeagar

kipani said:


> Yeah, wow... Poor woman.


First thing that popped into my head...


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Machiavelli said:


> *Umm...those aren't man boobs. Those are pectoral muscles.*


 Yes, you are so right!...yet...me personally...I'll still take a flat chested young Mick Jagger... young Steven Tyler (before his man boobs), young Axel Rose and a hot young Sebatian Bach over that Hollywood dude in the Mid evil dress with pectoral muscles...with the ponytail in his beard....I'm just not turned on by that ....the lanky ones invade my fantasies.... we already know I am odd....maybe I have some connection missing in my brain... 

What makes us Swoon... we're not all alike... I like red heads too.

This is as much pectoral muscles as I'd want to see on a man...bigger than that seems "too pronounced" ...for what I'd call "male perfection"... 





> These are man boobs:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two ways to get those: 1) dope; 2) steroids without a proper stack. I think we know how Stevie boy got his.


 Those sure are ! and this should be a warning to all who abuse drugs & hormones!...


----------



## Cosmos

tornado said:


> I've noticed that too. Some women flaunt it, then get offended if somebody looks. Hey, your the one with the boobs hanging out. I've also seen women be offended when their hit on by a unattractive man but flattered when hit on by a good looking man. Plus women are very visual, they may not ogle as much but a woman knows in seconds of meeting a guy, on looks alone if the guy has any chance or not.


:iagree:

Rather like a shopkeeper displaying goods in his/her window, yet only expecting certain 'customers' to notice...

If you've put your 'goods' on display, you've lost the right to pick and choose who is going to notice.


----------



## JCD

Cosmos said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Rather like a shopkeeper displaying goods in his/her window, yet only expecting certain 'customers' to notice...
> 
> If you've put your 'goods' on display, you've lost the right to pick and choose who is going to notice.


:iagree: :iagree:

If more women accepted this premise, there would be a lot fewer problems between the genders.

I appreciate that women DO dress like this sometimes. And part of the price as a man I need to pay is to NOT creep them out in any way.

Otherwise it's back to those wonderful 1890's fashions...


----------



## JCD

So, Karma Girl.

If hubby asked you to dump a friend who makes him feel bad, or he thinks is bad for your marriage, will you respect his feelings and dump him or her?

No one answered the last question, but the point remains. Do his feelings require as much behavior modification as you want YOUR feelings to garner?


----------



## youkiddingme

Poor woman. You guys are clueless. But that's ok.

The smile and look on her face said she knew what she was doing. She loved it as much as I did.


----------



## Caribbean Man

learning to love myself said:


> I'm a woman and I hate woman like this! If your going to market your goods expect to get looked at..
> 
> These are the same woman who scream sexual harassment if the guy isn't attractive, yet would she do that if he was hot?
> 
> I have know a few woman like this, that have had no problem with a guy acting inappropriate with her because of how he looked yet would not tolerate it from someone they didn't find attractive.
> 
> I personally like it when I get checked out, as long as the guy isn't being stupid or creepy about it. I have had a few that have scared me by chasing me down or stocking me in stores.



I understand and agree with what you're saying.

The average person has probably come across that type of person in their lifetime quite a few times.

But let's keep in mind that it's still her prerogative to dress how ever she feel like though , and also hers to accept as well as reject whatever advances from anyone , male or female she feels like.

My attitude to women like that has always been to ignore them...



Until they come back down to earth.


----------



## karma*girl

JCD- 

If I honestly thought there was credibility to what he was saying about the bad friend, yes, I'd give that friend up. 
If I knew there was a potential for trouble, or I felt like that friend was not encouraging me to be my best self, I could see where he was coming from & end communications with that person.

If I felt there was absolutely no threat & he was trying to be controlling, then I'd probably keep the friend & reassure him there is nothing to be worried about.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## karma*girl

JCD- can you rephrase your last question?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JCD

It is not so much a question as a comparison for you to consider. I am not judging you or trying to insult you. I am holding up a mirror so we get a slightly different way to look at this.

You stated that *if you decided* his feelings about Sheryl or whomever was valid, i.e. it was a threat, a problem, a 'real' issue, only then would you change your behavior. You get to veto his feelings if you feel they are not valid. If you *don't* agree his feelings are valid, you are telling him to suck it up: you won't change a thing. No doubt you would phrase it better, but the end results would be the same: You are still friends with Sheryl.

How is this different from how he is reacting to your request? This doesn't make him 'evil or insensitive'. It means he disagrees with the 'dangers' of the glances. He assesses how he feels about you. He knows how much time he is spending thinking about these girls, if any time at all...and he doesn't see a problem.

I am very much into gender reciprocation. If you can ask for validation of your feelings without question, so can he without qualm or quibble. Considering the shoe on the other foot makes one a lot more thoughtful of what one asks from the spouse.

For the record, your post has made me think a lot more about how I look at girls and how I present myself to girls. I am modifying my behavior accordingly, but for myself. My wife generally has no problem with how I interact with other women, at least as far as she lets me know.

I also did a test. I was checked myself on 'looking at girls'. I was alone in a restaurant. There were some cute girls there. No knock outs, but cute. I glanced at some of them a time or three. But I never thought of the in any kind of sexual fantasy, not even thinking about it now. It as more along the lines of 'ah...she is pleasant to look at'. I can't speak for every man and I have certainly fantasized about girls before...but not to the extent that you fear all men do. There is that instantaneous assessment 'if I were single, it wouldn't cost me anything, and she was willing, would I have sex with her?' But I believe everyone does that sort of assessment and it really means nothing.


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## lovelygirl

karma*girl said:


> JCD-
> 
> If I honestly thought there was credibility to what he was saying about the bad friend, yes, I'd give that friend up.
> If I knew there was a potential for trouble, or I felt like that friend was not encouraging me to be my best self, I could see where he was coming from & end communications with that person.
> 
> If I felt there was absolutely no threat & he was trying to be controlling, then I'd probably keep the friend & reassure him there is nothing to be worried about.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So, when your husband makes you a request, you have to think if it's valid or not and then decide.
But if you have a request for him (which in this case is not to look at **ty women) then your husband should accept it right away.

As for **ty women, they're not to blame tbh. It's like blaming Facebook. It depends how you use it. The same goes for those women. If your man can't handle being around them then that's his type you gotta deal with.


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## learning to love myself

Caribbean Man said:


> I understand and agree with what you're saying.
> 
> The average person has probably come across that type of person in their lifetime quite a few times.
> 
> But let's keep in mind that it's still her prerogative to dress how ever she feel like though , and also hers to accept as well as reject whatever advances from anyone , male or female she feels like.
> 
> My attitude to women like that has always been to ignore them...
> 
> 
> 
> Until they come back down to earth.


I completely agree, I rather enjoy looking at people who are a bit over the top with the way they dress, I might dress a bit risqué myself at times.

I only do this when I'm out with hubby because he likes it and is prepared to have others look.


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## vellocet

A woman that dresses too revealing so as to get the looks from other men, to me and for me, aren't worth 2 squirts of piss in the first place.

A woman that dresses so her boobs are practically going to pop out with the slightest bounce isn't a woman I'd consider someone I could trust.


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