# Living with a Narcissist till your not



## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

ok , As I've said before. Its going on 13 weeks now since I learned of the affair. I've also said before that this rollercoaster has me swinging in a different emotion weekly if not daily. I know now for sure that Im in survival mode till he gets the he*l out. I need help in how to live ( ignore ) a naracissist till its all said and done. Last night all the kids were home and he decided to take their cell phones away to go to sleep. Make a long story short the girls went nuts. Crying, complaining etc. He handled it totally wrong and made everything worse. Ended up calling my daughter a liar and his girls saying they hate him etc etc. I tell him in another room how wrong he was for calling one of them a liar etc. 
In the mean time his daughter ( he has two from previous marriage and they visit every other weekend) runs into the bathroom looks herself in and starts crying hysterical. The other girls open the door and she is sitting ont he floor rocking back and forth with her hands crossed in front of her. I get her out and bring her to her room where she tells me she feels like she was having an anxiety attack. I get her water and she calms down and tells me, "I just dont want my father to do to you what he did to my mom. I dont want him to leave you. I dont want him to be like his father". 
My heart sank. Her sister is sitiing on her bed watching this and my daughter is next to her. After I calm her down I go downstairs to tell him that HIS DAUGHTER is upstairs crying and tell him what she said. He responds with this:

Yes, she's crying because this is all your fault. You are the one screaming and yelling and always brining up my affair for the entire house to hear. It was probably your daughter telling them all the things she hears you say all the time about me and thats why she is so upset now. Its your fault that she knows. 

I tell him she is not crying because of an affair she is crying because she hears you fighting and she is worried about your actions because of how you already hurt her mom??!!! I said do NOT put this on me! Instead of paying attention to how your daughter is feeling your responce is , This is your fault??!! You take NO responsibility for your actions AT ALL??!!!

His responce:

Yeah yeah ok, this is my fault right. All of this is happening just because I was F*ing some woman. Yeah ok. 

At this point I just walked away. Before I go crazy I need to learn how to deal with this animal till this is done. He will NOT leave. I have a daughter in school up the block and my babysitter watches my baby in our home. I am not leaving. While its not physically abusive this man turns EVERYTHING on me and takes NO responsibility for his actions. How do I handle him ( or not ) till its over?????


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

********** said:


> Why can't he move out? Rent a room somewhere? Maybe in OW's house if her H doesn't mind?
> Time for you finally to take charge of this situation.
> There's nothing more powerful than silence and it can anger the cr*p out of people..
> It must NOT be an angry silence i.e. glaring at him etc.
> ...


I had to repost this from my previous post because it did give me some pointers on what to do and how.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

He might end up moving out into a room. I wish he did. I NEED TO TAKE CHARGE!!!!!!!!!! Yes , I’ve done enough of the grieving. ENOUGH. I NEED TO TURN THIS AROUND AND TAKE CHARGE …………….TODAY! 

I need to get out before my baby is like his daughter locked in a room crying rocking back and forth in panic. This is insane


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

You have to ignore him as much as possible - the emotional responses he gets out of you only feed his ego even more. He is actually trying to get these emotional responses out of you. The more calm and "indifferent" you are, the easier it will be to avoid the emotional pitfalls that come with living with a narcissist.

It doesn't matter how much you try to get them to look at their actions, it will always be your fault, they are perfect.


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## WalterWhite (Sep 14, 2012)

You cannot reason with your husband so stop trying. Bide your time awaiting his moving out. This should minimize drama. All the kids are going to need therapy. Stop playing the blame game; you do this a lot.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Have him go live with the OM! Let her have him.

Can your lawyer help you to have him move out?


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

vi_bride04 said:


> You have to ignore him as much as possible - the emotional responses he gets out of you only feed his ego even more. He is actually trying to get these emotional responses out of you. The more calm and "indifferent" you are, the easier it will be to avoid the emotional pitfalls that come with living with a narcissist.
> 
> It doesn't matter how much you try to get them to look at their actions, it will always be your fault, they are perfect.


This is why I HATE myself afterwards because I know deep inside this is what he wants and he does get his ego fed out of it. I have to keep telling myself this over and over. Be indifferent, Be indifferent. I was doing well for a while and I screwed up here by letting him get to me. Now I have to start over.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

WalterWhite said:


> You cannot reason with your husband so stop trying. Bide your time awaiting his moving out. This should minimize drama. All the kids are going to need therapy. Stop playing the blame game; you do this a lot.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


I dont know WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY I try to reason with him at all. I cant believe I have to share my son with this lunitic for life. His one daughter who was in the bathroom has been in and out of therapy since he first left when she was 7. She is now 14.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

stuck on hold said:


> This is why I HATE myself afterwards because I know deep inside this is what he wants and he does get his ego fed out of it. I have to keep telling myself this over and over. Be indifferent, Be indifferent. I was doing well for a while and I screwed up here by letting him get to me. Now I have to start over.


Don't get so down and hard on yourself. They are tricky [email protected], those narcissists. 

Just try to keep this thought going through your head whenever he tries to engage: "whatever comes out of his mouth, it is only about him...only about him only about him only about him only about him"

He cares nothing about anyone but himself. If he did, his own flesh and blood would not be rocking herself in the bathroom knowing how much of an @sshole her dad is!

There is no point arguing. But don't get down on yourself for messing up one time. Today is a new day, start ignoring


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

stuck on hold said:


> *I dont know WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY I try to reason with him at all.* I cant believe I have to share my son with this lunitic for life. His one daughter who was in the bathroom has been in and out of therapy since he first left when she was 7. She is now 14.


B/c your whole relationship has been a competition. No matter what news you had to share with him, he one upped you. He had to be the "better" person...can't stand to not be in the limelight. Soon any and all conversation was competing with each other.

Its a hard cycle to break, especially during emotionally charged arguments. 

I still find myself getting competitive in conversations even with basic friends. HARD HABIT TO BREAK!!! It has to do with constantly needing to defend youself against their "god complex" and how they are right and you are wrong....


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

vi_bride04 said:


> Don't get so down and hard on yourself. They are tricky [email protected], those narcissists.
> 
> Just try to keep this thought going through your head whenever he tries to engage: "whatever comes out of his mouth, it is only about him...only about him only about him only about him only about him"
> 
> ...


Thank you . I am VERY HARD on myself because for the life of me I cannot get it through my thick skull that he is not listening. He does not care. I keep tyring to tell him what Im thinking or what I think of him and I dont know why. 

His own flesh and blood rocking herself in the bathroom.........as much as these girls drive me up a wall that really hurt me to see. This little girl ( 14 ) is so damaged . 

Im crashing hard living in this insanity. Thank you for commenting all. I need this right now more then I can say


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## Abra-Brie (Oct 20, 2013)

Hi Stuck,

He's an irresponsible idiot and sounds like he cares for no one's feelings but his. I doubt you can reason with him at this point. His mind is elsewhee with his new toy.

First up, you do NOT have to share a housewith him. I actually think it's unhealthy to even be around him and the same goes for the kids, they don't need t be around him.

1st, Grab whatever money (cash) you can while you can. By the time HE would leave, he'd have taken it all. Hide it from him.

2. Get a lawyer and talk over that you want a divorce from this man. Let the lawyer know he won't leave on his own. They can handle that and he will be escorted out by whomever does that in your area after a lot of paperwork is done.

This won't be easy or fun. It will provide you with your house (I'm assuming you both own it.) and sanity for you and the kids. 


4. Get a family member (brother maybe?) to be with you or tell him you want a divorce in a public place where he can't be violent (even if he ormally isn't, it could provoke him). Tell him you expect him to move out and take his things out by (give him a date and time). 

The kids know what's going on and won't really be surprised at this. Get them out of the room or have them stay with a relative or friends during this part.

5. If he doesn't move out, tell your lawyer and he'll get him put out and have an order of protection put on him perhaps. That means he can't be within a certain distance of the house or you can put him in jail with a phone call to the police. You'll get a relative date and time if you call them up and talk to them sometimes. I'd personally pack his things or box them up (or have movers do it), put in storage and give him the key once he's out but you should probably talk to a lawyer before doing any of that!  

If you can get pictures of him with his girlfriend that's great to have for court. Talk to your attorney aobut that too.

I doubt he'll make any of this easy so all of you should go to some sort of at least temporary counceling. It gives everyone a safe place to vent if nothing else and some productive things to do while you are getting on your feet. 

6. Do some nice things for yourself. Spend a day at a spa (preferably on his credit card- it will be much more satisfying) 

(Sorry guys, this jerk earned this treatment- I'm not really ruthless normally) I'd say the same thing if the roles were reversed and the woman was cheating and being a jerk.)

Far as I'm concerned, you should go for everything you can get from him. 

Good luck,

Abra - Brie


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

It has to do with constantly needing to defend youself against their "god complex" and how they are right and you are wrong....[/QUOTE]

I don’t even want to get into what he says he hears from God so I don’t turn this post into a post about mental issues and again would be more about him. I need the help so I will refrain from writing it down. 

One this he is convinced of is that he's always always right. Give me a few days and I'll update this post that he's turned into a mouse again. You'll see. Whats today Monday? By Wednesday or maybe Friday he'll be trying to talk . Part of his talk will be about how he's done nothing wrong etc etc


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Abra-Brie said:


> Hi Stuck,
> 
> He's an irresponsible idiot and sounds like he cares for no one's feelings but his. I doubt you can reason with him at this point. His mind is elsewhee with his new toy.
> 
> ...


I have to get my daughter out of the house to do all of this for sure. She has seen and heard the most. He thrives on making it seem as if Im irrational and over the top and I am the one thats effected the children. If she is there thats what he'll say. When I tell him he's not even focused on whats going on with the family because his mind is elsewhere he responds "here you go again brining up my affair, go ahead, what else is new" 
I know, I need to STOP talking. Other then telling him to LEAVE. 

As for going for everything, this man bought this mistress a diamond ring and lavish gifts and dinners. He will pay for all of this 10X by the time Im done. I HATE being this person but he is this person with me.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Give him the slient treatment as much as you can.


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## sherri1997 (Jul 9, 2013)

Gosh, this is like reading my life. I never understood what a Narcissist was and now that I have read up on it, it is like reading into the mind of my stbxh and confirms that I am not crazy and that he needs the help. Get your children out of there and I know that is hard but they can't see this abnormal way of behaving and think that it is ok. Much prayers to you ... this is a very tough situation to be in and not want to fight against it.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Yes, this is horrible. A nightmare I have to walk into every day. I thought my ex husband was bad......it must be me because I picked yet another winner. Its draining and its mentally challenging. No matter how clear they make themselves to be you still think to yourself "is it me?" I KNOW its not but I do find myself thinking it. My baby is only 20 mths. I need to get him OUT way before my son turns into what his daughter is like today. All the damage that man has caused her and HE STILL has the nerve to blame it on me.......Im still not over it from last night obviously.........


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

You MUST lawyer up, now! Get the paperwork going for legal separation that orders that HE leave the house. In the meantime, IGNORE him! And tell the girls to ignore him as well! What a piece of sh1t this man is!


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

almost time to go home and deal with the ignoring him. Have a 13 year old who's active and knows too much and 20 mth old . I never get to not deal with this. There is an explosion in my head of anger and a constant reoccurring movie in my head. Sometimes I wish I could erase my memory completely...............


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

For your own well being, you need to try to ignore him as much as possible. Even if that means physically removing yourself from his presence. 

Like if you start to feel a discussion heading in the wrong direction "I'm not ok where this conversation is headed" and then walk away. Refuse to discuss anything more with him. 

You may see him get angry or have outbursts with this ignoring tactic. Do not let it sway you. He will only be upset b/c you are not feeding his ego like you normally do by engaging him. 

Ignore ignore ignore...I know its hard....but just know you will always feel worse after engaging in an argument with him. 

And if you slip up from ignoring, oh well. Its ok. It takes lots and lots and lots of practice to ignore a narcissist.


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## motherofone (Jan 10, 2013)

First. Invoke Medium chill. No facial expression, no arm movements, no shrugs. 

Do not engage. Ever. There is nothing you need to talk about. Yeah it is his daughter, but he is an N who isn't capable of caring. He just does those things to get his N supply- a reaction positive or negative from you and the girls. Comfort the girls and let it go. Being phone free for a night may be a good thing. Take a walk together, watch a movie, go somewhere- leave H home. No supply if no one is there. 

Start engaging. Stop. Leave the room, leave the house if you have to. 

Be warned. Once you stop giving supply they will try new tactics. N can also get physically violent so be careful with ANY interaction. They get pleasure from making you angry, confused, frustrated, or made to feel low. 

The good news is once you are out of the N tornado you will realize that you were manipulated into that "crazy" person and that isn't who you really are. Peace and happiness are on the other side, but things are going to be quite rocky between now and then. Buckle up and get a lawyer and emergency funds and bag packed.


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## WalterWhite (Sep 14, 2012)

Abra-Brie said:


> Hi Stuck,
> 
> He's an irresponsible idiot and sounds like he cares for no one's feelings but his. I doubt you can reason with him at this point. His mind is elsewhee with his new toy.
> 
> ...


Your advice is terribly. You are ruthless and not helpful.


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## Wise Fairy (Sep 17, 2013)

SOH 

I am so sorry you are going through this I totally understand your pain, frustration, hurt and exhaustion. 

These N's have no idea of the suffering that they put people through, not even their children. 

Yes, this is horrible. A nightmare I have to walk into every day. I thought my ex husband was bad......it must be me because I picked yet another winner. Its draining and its mentally challenging. No matter how clear they make themselves to be you still think to yourself "is it me?" I KNOW its not but I do find myself thinking it. My baby is only 20 mths. I need to get him OUT way before my son turns into what his daughter is like today. All the damage that man has caused her and HE STILL has the nerve to blame it on me.......Im still not over it from last night obviously......... 


I am coming out of a N relationship and like you I was in a crap relationship before this one I thought it was a step up as the other was DV, and this one was Emotional Abuse I feel drained, worthless, and so on but I know I will come out of it hopefully soon with the help of good friends, they are really trying with me lol! I was out but went back to it recently and I am back to square one so sad. 

The kids don't need to see this, pull on your friends, family now, perhaps the kids could spend more time with them to get them out of this situation while you get it sorted. As for the D rocking herself counseling since 7 oh that just wants to make me cry and hurts my heart to hear, how will she be when she grows up, how will her self esteem be?

You have to protect you and the kids, did you get your own account set up, have you photocopied all relevant documents, this is survival mode. 

You have proved to me and helped me see that my N won't be happy with someone else either I kept blaming myself, he blamed me for even talking to people I am at the h..e stage anger is coming. 

Make a list a plan of action you and the kids first priority, does his daughter live with you or her mom some of the time?

I wish peace in your heart and soul


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

WalterWhite said:


> Your advice is terribly. You are ruthless and not helpful.


Um, NO...that advice was 100% SPOT ON!


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

*Re: Re: Living with a Narcissist till your not*



WalterWhite said:


> Your advice is terribly. You are ruthless and not helpful.


Have you ever been in an abusive relationship with a narcissist? And then tried to leave that narcissist?

That was excellent advice!!!


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

stuck on hold said:


> I dont know WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY I try to reason with him at all.


For me, it was a need to be on the same page.....to be understood. To have peace and sanity. To stop feeling like a small child hiding under her desk during a tornado drill. All I ever did was defend myself and then go into a shell, waiting for the verbal insults and mental torture of silent treatments. I wish I had a dollar for every time I said "I'm not stupid." 

It has been one year since I have seen him. I still trigger, defend, then retreat. But the difference is, there are no escalating arguments, ill tones, no verbal insults or silent treatments. I guess it will take time for the little girl to crawl out from under the desk.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

Hi.
First of all I am sorry you are going through this, but I am glad that you recognize who/what you are dealing with.

It has taken me the best part of three years to feel that I am finally recovering a sense if self. I can hear in your posts the co-dependency that he is feeding on. 

This co-dependency didn't happen overnight, it happened in tiny incremental steps you may not even remember now. 
This is not a criticism of you. 

Narcs hone in on empathetic people, people who can fill the empathy gap. People who will help them engage in a reasonable way with the world. While things are normal, they can function as passable human beings. When they engage in the most selfish of acts against you it is only then that you see their true character.

You no longer are the person providing this service and the fact you are hurt and probably for the first time demanding that they see it from your point of view is seen as an attack. 
This is why he becomes angry at you and his own children. The more drama there is the more it proves how he is the centre of peoples worlds. 

The advice to go silent is good advice. It is damn near impossible though, because just when you think you have your emotions under control he finds another button to push, he can do this is because he installed those buttons. 

This man is damaging to your mental health. You need to see a psych to help you deal with him and to ask yourself some tough questions. Don't mention that you think he is a narc. let the psych draw their own conclusions. You are there to be able to deal with the day to day attacks and the inevitable breakdowns these will cause. 
Here are a few things that helped me early on in my voyage of discovery.

When he talks, deliberately count the number of "I'"s in the conversation. When it starts with "I" tune out and wait for the next one.

Count the number of "you" followed by deflection or blaming you.

After several such counting conversations you may have to resist the desire to burst out laughing. I counted 47 I's in a 5 min monologue..

Avoid conversations at all about his daughter. 

DO NOT put yourself in the middle of the relationship with his children and him. You can not protect them from him as you have seen. Keep sending them to psyche.

Avoid. This is a valid and useful technique with a narc. Avoid as many opportunities as you can to give him a platform.


Recovery.
This involves a lot of pain for you. a lot of self reflection and a good deal of letting go. It is important to remember that he will turn that charm you fell in love with if he wants something many, many months [years] down the track. Eventually you will become immunized, but this will take time and some help.
You are damaged by this but you will recover. You can not change or fix him. You loved someone who did not exist.

I am sorry and please, please get practical psyche help. 

LET GO


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

vi_bride04 said:


> For your own well being, you need to try to ignore him as much as possible. Even if that means physically removing yourself from his presence.
> 
> Like if you start to feel a discussion heading in the wrong direction "I'm not ok where this conversation is headed" and then walk away. Refuse to discuss anything more with him.
> 
> ...


Thank you. I did have a slip and then I had to start all over. It sucked because i did feel worse after I spoke because it went no where and yes, he felt validated. IGNORE is key. I will remember this. Even on text or email I have to be limited in my interaction. If not for TAM, I would take ALL of his behavior personal. ALL OF IT


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

motherofone said:


> First. Invoke Medium chill. No facial expression, no arm movements, no shrugs.
> 
> Do not engage. Ever. There is nothing you need to talk about. Yeah it is his daughter, but he is an N who isn't capable of caring. He just does those things to get his N supply- a reaction positive or negative from you and the girls. Comfort the girls and let it go. Being phone free for a night may be a good thing. Take a walk together, watch a movie, go somewhere- leave H home. No supply if no one is there.
> 
> ...


I've already called my sister to spend the weekend at her house. He uses my son to his advantage. He "wants him home" and he knows I wont leave him there with out me. Im addicted to being with my son because its my refuge and he's only 20mths old. I already told him we will be away all weekend and made up some fake plans. I also told him to cancel any appoinments we had together and not to bother with looking into a vacation.  He did not say one word. 
Yes, I need to remind myself not to get so involved with his girls. Thats his problem. He gets most defensive when I bring up how messed up they are.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Wise Fairy said:


> SOH
> 
> I am so sorry you are going through this I totally understand your pain, frustration, hurt and exhaustion.
> 
> ...


Thank you. His daughter lives with her mother. Her school has called her parents multiple times regarding her awkward behavior. She is an emotionally unstable child so all of these problems before me and after me have affected her a great deal. I cant even detail all of the awkward things she does. Its too much. She will go from perfectly fine one minute to freaking out the next. She loves her brother ( our son together ) but when he was first born her father said to me that we shouldnt leave her alone with the baby. 
I need to disconnect from taking on this responsibility. Also the more I get involved he will either blame me or use me to help him. Either way I can see now he uses both stratagies to suck me back in. He knows with the kids is the way.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

SaltInWound said:


> For me, it was a need to be on the same page.....to be understood. To have peace and sanity. To stop feeling like a small child hiding under her desk during a tornado drill. All I ever did was defend myself and then go into a shell, waiting for the verbal insults and mental torture of silent treatments. I wish I had a dollar for every time I said "I'm not stupid."
> 
> Exactly what it feels like. Its this constant need to be heard and understood. The more he refuses to listen the more I try. Like everyone says here. JUST STOP. Tonight will be the first day of starting over with ignoring him. Im moving my things into another bedroom. I need to do different things and take action. Like someone here on TAM said, I need to take control here. I've talked and "put my food down" plenty of times only to come out looking stupid cause I cave in as soon as he acts like he cares.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

ing said:


> Hi.
> First of all I am sorry you are going through this, but I am glad that you recognize who/what you are dealing with.
> 
> It has taken me the best part of three years to feel that I am finally recovering a sense if self. I can hear in your posts the co-dependency that he is feeding on.
> ...


Amazing advice. I cant pick out the part that stands out more here and how scary it is to read at the same time. YES he always uses the same ways to get me back in. Soon as Im in he is back to his old self in minutes. Not even days. 
I MUST refrain from the kids. I MUST refrain from conversations about his kids. I MUST refrain of talking about his mistress. All these things quickly turn against me and he does NOT see any blame. I figure if freedom is what he wants freedom is what I should give him. The more I engage the more he pulls away and the more I feel like crap. 

Thank you so much for your post.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

All, I was so drained last night that I didint even log onto TAM till late today. My brain just cant take this problem any longer. I want you ALL to know that Im so grateful that I did. You are all the push that helps me survive. Call me co dependent to the extreme. I am all of that and then some. This morning I told him he should cancel all plans that are to do with "us". I told him we need to discuss only our son and I dont want to fight. I dont want to even sleep in the same room with him. Im destroyed from the inside and I cant function this way anymore. He did not say one word. He then text me the following:

"why dont you go get professional help? You know I suffer from depression and I know what depression looks like and I can see it in your eyes. I've been taking medication for 8 years so I know. You should get professional help. 
I dont resent you. I do feel terrible but the fact that I do not present it how u like disturbs you. I am sorry. I caused all this. I bear the responsibility. I will stay away from you and try to give you peace. " 



I honestly dont know how to take any of this so I didint even respond................


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

stuck on hold said:


> All, I was so drained last night that I didint even log onto TAM till late today. My brain just cant take this problem any longer. I want you ALL to know that Im so grateful that I did. You are all the push that helps me survive. Call me co dependent to the extreme. I am all of that and then some. This morning I told him he should cancel all plans that are to do with "us". I told him we need to discuss only our son and I dont want to fight. I dont want to even sleep in the same room with him. Im destroyed from the inside and I cant function this way anymore. He did not say one word. He then text me the following:
> 
> "why dont *you go get professional help*? You know *I* suffer from depression and* I* know what depression looks like and *I *can see it in your eyes. *I've *been taking medication for 8 years so* I *know. *You should get professional help. *
> *I* dont resent you. *I* do feel terrible but the fact that* I *do not present it how* u like disturbs you**. I* am sorry. *I *caused all this.* I *bear the responsibility. *I *will stay away from you and try to give you peace. "
> ...


12 references to himself - most playing the victim game and "feel sorry for me"....3 references to you - but notice they are all derogatory. 

Don't respond. That message deserves no response. You told him what you wanted and needed and he totally disregarded your feelings by sending that message trying to play victim and blame you for his shortcomings.

He can't even respect your requests of what you need to heal. What an @sshole!

ETA: he is starting to grasp at straws to get any feedback from you as he can see his control over you is starting to waver...the usual tactics aren't working. He will now be resorting to crap like this to get a response. Just keep that in mind. Try not to get roped back in. Ignore, ignore, ignore!! Just the small bit you are doing and now how you are trying to separate from his presence is driving him mad. If it wasn't, he wouldn't have sent that text.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

He then followed up and said that he drove back home and gave my daughter ( mine from previous ) some money so her and her 4 friends can go out to eat. 

I know he is thinking that Im not going to stick to what I said this morning. Like you just said, just the fact that he text that he's ignoring what I asked already and trying to play victim. He's a master at this. I need to put action into my words. I've gone back on them so many times he does not respect them. I only feel worse when I do. Like an idiot and a fool. I dont even want to text him about our son right now. NOTHING if I can help it. More to show him Im serious about what I said. Sadly enough I've had these "this is it" conversations before and I've eaten my own words EACH TIME.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Its ok, stuck, really, try not to beat yourself up too much.

You are realizing what is happening now. You are no longer in the dark regarding his manipulation tactics. You now realize you are not crazy, you are not the hot mess with a million issues like he always tells you that you are....you are coming out of the fog and seeing things for what they really are. It takes alot of effort to get through this. You are already way ahead in this game by knowing what he is doing. 

It wasn't until after I had already made the decision to move out and end my marriage that I realized how N my ex was. 

Stay strong. You can do this.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Thank you VI Bride04..........going home now. Lets see what tonight will bring. Ignore is the key word here. Limited to no conversation. Thak goodness I will not see him at all tomorrow as he is going to "an event " after work.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Do you mind if I say...I think this thread is amazing. I have really, read so much to understand this kind of behaviour, and it has been enlightening. But to have it in a single thread all on its own is great...sorry Stuck, I know its not good for you, far from it, but I am glad you have begun to see what he is doing, and glad you started a thread to deal with this particular aspect. It is such a truly damaging behaviour trait. So damaging to all they love and all who love them. People like them should come with a mental health warning. 

I think many people here have ended up with someone like your husband. I did too. 11 years, and yet it was 2 years after our split that I realised how badly he manipulated me. But then it was to be 4 years after we split when I began to read up so much on this behaviour trait and began to see it more clearly. And yet coming across this thread is like being awoken all over again, it is like looking in a mirror!

Stuck, I think you are doing great! You are getting great advice here and your eyes are opening. That is a great feeling huh? Stick with it (the education), the behaviour becomes more and more apparent and obvious. 

These fella's are slippery though. They still manage to get you unawares sometimes by pushing those buttons. But they never quite get you as good once the realisation is there.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Remains said:


> Do you mind if I say...I think this thread is amazing. I have really, read so much to understand this kind of behaviour, and it has been enlightening. But to have it in a single thread all on its own is great...sorry Stuck, I know its not good for you, far from it, but I am glad you have begun to see what he is doing, and glad you started a thread to deal with this particular aspect. It is such a truly damaging behaviour trait. So damaging to all they love and all who love them. People like them should come with a mental health warning.
> 
> I think many people here have ended up with someone like your husband. I did too. 11 years, and yet it was 2 years after our split that I realised how badly he manipulated me. But then it was to be 4 years after we split when I began to read up so much on this behaviour trait and began to see it more clearly. And yet coming across this thread is like being awoken all over again, it is like looking in a mirror!
> 
> ...


Thank you . This is NOT NOT NOOOOOOOT easy. Its such a mind game. He's 48 and very educated but at the same time such a child. He plays games. I did NOT see this AT ALL. I've said it before. The flags were flying across the room I think on our second date. My sister said something great this morning. She said, dont let this change who you are as a person who believes in love. This just made you smarter thats all. 

Its SO HARD fighting the urge to call him out. I have to remind myself every minute of the day that he doesnt care about what I say or anyone says. I get so mad at myself for having the urge to constantly want to point things out to him. You should see all the notes I have on my iphone. They are filled with thougts and things I want to say to him that I just need to get out. So I write them down instead. It does help some but the urge to send it out doesnt stop. I hate it. 

No need to be sorry. Its comforting to know that Im not alone in this. That others end up with men like this. Its scary because by the time you realize any of it you are so sucked in, ( 4 step kids and a baby later ) that you cant just say , screw you Im out of here. I cant wait to be like you and look back at this and say, wow, x amount of years ago I was like this or like that. 

Yes yes yes, they are slippery and they do try to get you. Last night he said some things that I'll post in a few and tell you how he tried to get me again. Yes your right, once the realization is there they dont get you as easy. Because of TAM I repeated in my head over and over, ignore, ignore ignore..............


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

so yes, last night I ignored, ignored, ignored. Conversation was very vanilla and only what had to be said was said. So I was happy about that when I went to sleep. Yes he did try to sort of engage in some conversation. This morning I thought of it like, the N stepped out and the mouse has entered. This very sensitive humble person emerged from out of nowhere and tried to speak. I reminded myself 100x if not 1000x to ignore getting caught up in him trying to be nice. Its fake, its fake. Ugh.....exhausting . I’m not going to lie to myself or lie here , it does affect me. If bothers me. It stings still. It makes me feel so insignificant. I feel like a stranger with the father of my son??? It’s sad. Very sad. I pull through because of the advice here and my family and friends but I live with the knot in my stomach and the constant disappointment.  

This morning he was in the shower and I looked at his phone ( is that bad? ). It’s not because I need to find out more. I know more than most will ever know about their spouses affair. Anyway I looked. His ex-wife told him that his daughter ( the one that locked herself in the bathroom ) was very concerned that she will not see her brother if we get a divorce. It seems that my stbx tried to "blame his ex " (surprise) for making comments about his father and that’s why his daughter was crying and saying "I don’t want daddy to be like his father". She tells him his daughter is still very upset. 

Then according to his phone log.......he's been on the phone with the mistress still. NOT NOT that I was in denial to think he was no longer speaking to her and I’m sure still sleeping with her but as much as I've learned that N do not care .......................IT STILL KILLS ME THAT WHILE HIS OWN DAUGHTER IS FALLING APART AND HE IS LOSING HIS FAMILY AND BABY ..................HE IS STILL ENGAGED IN HIS AFFAIR??!!!! 

I know, I know N behave this way but it’s going to take me years to accept this all. Since I am NOT a N and I have morals and real feelings I just can’t see how a person who has their own child begging for stability , an entire family who is crying and confused, a wife that is destroyed and a baby that has no idea.............he still finds it ok to make this about him. Make the phone call to the mistress and still engage in the affair while the entire family crumbles around him. The selfishness is something that’s going to take me a looooong time to get a grip on. I just can’t believe it as much as I've learned here about a N .....I still can’t believe it. 
How did I end up here with a man like this? How was I so fooled? This is not a new thing he's pulled out of a hat. He's been like this for as long as I've known him. HOW did I not see this? 
His ex-wife is as bitter as an ex-wife can be. It’s been 8 years since their divorce and she hates him just the same. The conversations they exchange are horrible and she wants nothing to do with me. Even though I had nothing to do with their divorce she wants nothing to do with me . Maybe hatred by association? I don’t know. I sort of wish in these times, she would reach out . One because what a great resource that would be for me and two, I would love to tell her how messed up her daughter is at my house. 
Tomorrow I have a therapy session thank God........


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## BlueCalcite (Jul 15, 2013)

stuck on hold said:


> I know, I know N behave this way but it’s going to take me years to accept this all. Since I am NOT a N and I have morals and real feelings I just can’t see how a person who has their own child begging for stability , an entire family who is crying and confused, a wife that is destroyed and a baby that has no idea.............*he still finds it ok to make this about him*.


It's not that he's just "ok" with making it about him. It *must* be about him. When events in his life aren't centered around him, he feels invisible, like he doesn't exist, and when that happens he experiences distress probably very similar in magnitude to what the rest of us experience when the narcissist is on the offensive.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

BlueCalcite said:


> It's not that he's just "ok" with making it about him. It *must* be about him. When events in his life aren't centered around him, he feels invisible, like he doesn't exist, and when that happens he experiences distress probably very similar in magnitude to what the rest of us experience when the narcissist is on the offensive.


So do you think the fact that I've pulled away and ignored ( at least as of yesterday ) he's just moved on the the next thing or person that give him the attention he needs? Is that what he's doing?

Today he has not text at all. Not expecting but hasnt reached out. This morning when I left I said, "have a good one" and he mumbled something back but since it was all under his breath and forced out of his mouth I didint understand and I didint care to ask him what he said. 

Last night he was talking or at least trying to talk and say something. This morning the mouse left and I assume it was the N in the room again. He was grumpy and like I said, not wanting to talk. Mumbling around the house in some sort of mood. Its either he's affected by my ignoring him or he's mad or he's blaming me or I dont know. I did not ask and will not ask just venting here.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Are you taking any kind of legal advice?
What are your plans?


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

stuck on hold said:


> So do you think the fact that I've pulled away and ignored ( at least as of yesterday ) he's just moved on the the next thing or person that give him the attention he needs? Is that what he's doing?


 

So yeah, your narcisssitic husband doesn't need to be bothered with you or his children because he has his wh0re giving him the god like attention and praise he needs as a narcissit. If it isn't her, it will be someone else. He appreciates that you have ignored him. It is too exhausting having to focus on so many.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

SaltInWound said:


> So yeah, your narcisssitic husband doesn't need to be bothered with you or his children because he has his wh0re giving him the god like attention and praise he needs as a narcissit. If it isn't her, it will be someone else. He appreciates that you have ignored him. It is too exhausting having to focus on so many.


Funny, I thought of this as well. So as long as his ***** is giving him that attention he's good. Thats another reason that whenever I speak it goes in one ear and out the other because the person giving him advice on the other end is the same ***** who he's cheating with to begin with. So I have many demons I deal with. Depression, narcissist, in love with his *****, mommy issues, liar, etc etc etc. 

So really Im damnd if I do and Im damnd if I dont. If I ignore him he doesnt react at all because its acutally a relief. If I say something he shrugs his shoulders because he can care less about what Im saying. He's so far gone that there is no way to reach him N or not.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Acabado said:


> Are you taking any kind of legal advice?
> What are your plans?


I havent offically hired a lawyer but I've spoken to one. My plans are to get him out of the house first then whatever happends after that second. I dont know how he's going to support 3 households but thats not my problem. 

BTW, he's a lawyer and so is his mistress wh*re


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

stuck on hold said:


> Funny, I thought of this as well. So as long as his ***** is giving him that attention he's good. Thats another reason that whenever I speak it goes in one ear and out the other because the person giving him advice on the other end is the same ***** who he's cheating with to begin with. So I have many demons I deal with. Depression, narcissist, in love with his *****, mommy issues, liar, etc etc etc.
> 
> So really Im damnd if I do and Im damnd if I dont. If I ignore him he doesnt react at all because its acutally a relief. If I say something he shrugs his shoulders because he can care less about what Im saying. He's so far gone that there is no way to reach him N or not.


Stuck, are you working toward filing for divorce? Because this man is disgusting. The only way I would want to reach him is over the table to backhand him.  Or smother him with a pillow! :smthumbup: Keep ignoring him, this is about YOU, not him.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

stuck on hold said:


> BTW, he's a lawyer ....


A profession that is perfect for a narcissist.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> Stuck, are you working toward filing for divorce? Because this man is disgusting. The only way I would want to reach him is over the table to backhand him.  Or smother him with a pillow! :smthumbup: Keep ignoring him, this is about YOU, not him.


Yes he is disgusting. Its painfull to watch the real him in action. I NEVER would have thought but like I've been told here, it was an illusion to begin with so Im mourning a nothing, a nobody. Even though thats the case its still difficult to witness. 

I chuckled at wanting to backhand him or smother him with a pillow. ( thanks I need to laugh ) . Trust me, I think of that often. He is so disgusting and far gone. I feel like Im talking about a movie and not my real life. 

Yes Im working toward filing. Its not as much progress as I'd like to note here but Im taking action............*SIGH.*


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

SaltInWound said:


> A profession that is perfect for a narcissist.


Yes yes yes, in arguments in the past I've told him that he's a professional liar by trade so I dont expect much. 

He's in criminal defense mind you and what he tells his clients ALL THE TIME........"deny till you die". If caught say nothing, admit to nothing cause thats how you will get in further trouble. 

So yes, he's told me exactly who he was a million times over. I just didint see it.................LORD............


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

oh and the mistress?????? Shes a divorce attorney!!!!!!!!!!


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Time to go home and play the ignore game. He just sent me a text telling me to read an interesting article in the News Paper. I did not respond. He then said he is no longer going to wear his wedding ring. I did not respond either. 

What does his wedding ring matter? He's had it on for 6 years and he still cheated with everything that moved.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

stuck on hold said:


> Time to go home and play the ignore game. He just sent me a text telling me to read an interesting article in the News Paper. I did not respond. He then said he is no longer going to wear his wedding ring. I did not respond either.
> 
> What does his wedding ring matter? He's had it on for 6 years and he still cheated with everything that moved.


Just another tactic out of the "Pay Attention to Me" handbook!

IGNORE!!


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

The evening was quiet because he went to an event that a female friend of his invited him to. He came home with a goody bag of things fromt the event and offered to give me a ride to work this morning. His "friend" from last night text him this morning thanking him for going to her event and she's sorry he left and she wish he didint leave because this other man that was there wouldnt leave her alone. ( I was invited to this event but told him I had no desire to go with him) 
So I said, "oh cause she wanted it to seem to this man that you were there with her thats why". He said, "no no no she is nothing like that. She has no intrest in me". YEAH RIGHT. Im sure she was happy I was not there. As far as Im concerned, SHE CAN HAVE HIM AND ALL HIS ISSUES TIED UP WITH A BOW. 
Funny how even though I feel that way , its still bothers me. I guess that will take time to go away??

This morning the mouse is back. From moment to moment he switches back and forth. I guess I have to keep telling myself this is how he is. We have therapy tonight. We are going together to try and figure out how best to unravel all of this with the least amount of damage to the kids. Both sets of kids have been through this before and its been ugly. His kids are now in this for the 4th time and are about to see their own therapist for the 6th time!!!! I cant let that happen to my son. I need somehow to walk through this mess with the least amount of hurt to the children. Both his and mine. 

I have no idea what the therapist is going to say or how she is going to handle this. Ususally people go to counceling to fix things not break up. 

Im also going to start seeing IC so I dont go totally insane and end up in the hospital.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

stuck on hold said:


> All, I was so drained last night that I didint even log onto TAM till late today. My brain just cant take this problem any longer. I want you ALL to know that Im so grateful that I did. You are all the push that helps me survive. Call me co dependent to the extreme. I am all of that and then some. This morning I told him he should cancel all plans that are to do with "us". I told him we need to discuss only our son and I dont want to fight. I dont want to even sleep in the same room with him. Im destroyed from the inside and I cant function this way anymore. He did not say one word. He then text me the following:
> 
> "*why dont you go get professional help? You know I suffer from depression and I know what depression looks like and I can see it in your eyes. I've been taking medication for 8 years so I know. You should get professional help.
> I dont resent you. I do feel terrible but the fact that I do not present it how u like disturbs you. I am sorry. I caused all this. I bear the responsibility. I will stay away from you and try to give you peace. " *
> ...


Excellent!! :smthumbup:

Now what you do is save that text somehow. Find a way to print it and secure it in a safe place. This, my friend, secures your rights for divorce purposes. Trust me. My Ex wrote the equivalent in an email which memorializes that the problems in the marriage where on him. He also was/is a narcissist.  Sometimes, if you are lucky (which you are) they actually admit to the damning truth while thinking they are putting the blame on you. Let him. I was highly successful in my divorce settlement due to his own (written) words.

If you must communicate at all with him, I highly recommend that you have the conversation in written form. Weigh your own words well with the thought that a Judge might eventually read the words. And let the narcissist respond without a clue to your intent.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

stuck on hold said:


> He then followed up and said that he drove back home and gave my daughter ( mine from previous ) some money so her and her 4 friends can go out to eat.
> 
> I know he is thinking that Im not going to stick to what I said this morning. Like you just said, just the fact that he text that he's ignoring what I asked already and trying to play victim. He's a master at this. I need to put action into my words. I've gone back on them so many times he does not respect them. I only feel worse when I do. Like an idiot and a fool. I dont even want to text him about our son right now. NOTHING if I can help it. More to show him Im serious about what I said. *Sadly enough I've had these "this is it" conversations before and I've eaten my own words EACH TIME. *


Then might I suggest *not *having the conversation with him at all. Ever again. Time for action. Go into "business" mode, which means that you emotionally detach and focus on your exit strategy. Assess the marital assets in your mind. Write down things you will need to remember, such as financial information and email that information to yourself to secure it from him. See an attorney for advise. An attorney can figure out how much you will receive in alimony and child support so that you can assess how you will survive alone.

Confide in a close friend or family member. They can be the person with whom you can bounce off "what ifs" and help you sort out what your best course of action should be. Make plans. Detach.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Let me disclose the things he has said that it has taken every once of my soul NOT to respond to. Im trying to detach but the feeling of retaliation and or defending myself takes A LOT of restraint. 
He said, ( not in this order but said nonetheless ) 

"If it wasnt her it would have been someone else because I was always searching for this void to be filled"

"You couldnt have been any sexier, beautiful, couldnt have bought me any more giftts, been a greater mother to our son or a step mom to my daughters. It was me, Im the a**hole" 

"I knew we did not need counceling back then. I knew the problem was me. I wasnt there. I was not present!"

"I would never leave you and the kids because these kids would be destroyed by our breakup. It would be me that loses everything because all these kids love you and if anything I'd be the one missing out"

"you give this woman way to much credit."

"This relationship sucks"

"I used you to get over her and I didint get over her ever". 

"I dont resent you" "I do love you" 

"You want nothing to do with me sooooooooo" 

"its not you. Its me. You cook, you clean, your a great lover, you are a great woman. Its me not you" 

"if it wasnt for this woman we wouldnt have any issues at all because between us there are no issues. We get along, we laugh, you are beutiful, your a great mother. But for this woman everything would be fine" 


There are many many many more things this man has said but Im about to throw up so I have to stop here. IF I did throw any one of these back in his face.......his responce has been the following.........
"You continue to misconstrue everything I say. You manipulate my words. You took it all out of context. Thats not what I meant"


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

WOW, he is seriously a textbook N! You are doing AWESOME to ignore him! You know that if you respond, then you are playing right into his hands! Keep it up!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

stuck on hold said:


> Yes he is disgusting. Its painful to watch the real him in action. I NEVER would have thought but like I've been told here, it was an illusion to begin with so I'm mourning a nothing, a nobody. Even though that's the case it's still difficult to witness.


What you _should _be mourning is the time you wasted on him.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

turnera said:


> What you _should _be mourning is the time you wasted on him.


I am mourning that and involving my kids and having his child and changing my life for him and everything that comes with him. Im mourning it all. Its not easy because at the end of the day regardless what I do I have a baby that just like my first two kids will have to deal with part time parenting. 

On our first date we spoke about children and he wanted more desperately. I said I would NEVER and told him how I would never want to take the risk of having another child go through what my kids went through. BAMMM here I am AGAIN with a baby . 

This is like a death sentence to me. Dont know how else to describe it. I can go to IC, get over him, get over it, deal with it, move on, but this is still a death sentence in my heart for my son.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

stuck on hold said:


> *"If it wasnt her it would have been someone else because I was always searching for this void to be filled"*


This is the only statement you need to focus on. 

Focus on this and use it to find the inner strength to leave him.

This will never be a satisfying relationship for you. Not to mention it is HIGHLY emotionally abusive.

Everything he said was a contradictory statement!! How can you not go crazy in your own head with things he says?

Great job on ignoring. But I'm sure the verbal onslaught will get worse the more you ignore. These people cannot STAND to not be the center of attention, even if the attention is arguing. 

BTW, I have heard my ex say similar things to me when I finally had enough and was making plans to move out and leave him.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What matters to your son is that you make his life as fulfilling as possible and that he feels loved and wanted. That.is.all.

Kids from separated parents grow up to be just as great people as the others, IF at least one of their parents is their rock.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

turnera said:


> What matters to your son is that you make his life as fulfilling as possible and that he feels loved and wanted. That.is.all.
> 
> Kids from separated parents grow up to be just as great people as the others, IF at least one of their parents is their rock.


THANK YOU . Im just terrified to raise a boy alone but thank you for this post


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Read up on Authoritative Parenting. Amazing stuff. It's how I raised my DD23 and she's amazing; it really works. Apply that, and all your kids will be fine.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

stuck on hold said:


> THANK YOU . Im just terrified to raise a boy alone but thank you for this post


Raising him alone is so much healthier for him then him having to navigate through your H's mind games!!!

Please believe that. You don't want him turning N as well....


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Yes , I dont want my son to be anything like his father.  Its my son that keeps me in fear. I look at him and I fall apart inside. I know I want to protect him and I will but I just feel SO ANGRY that he doesnt have a decent father. 

I know I keep talking about the flags that I missed and I know I cant change the past but here is another flag that I wonder if any of you would have been smarter then I and LEFT right then. 

a few years ago he INSISTED I meet a female friend of his from his past. He says, "She's a great friend, we use to date about 20 years ago, I represented her brother in a few cases after that , she's married now and we are just friends, I really want you to meet her." Reluctantly I meet her. The evening goes on and in a conversation she said laughing as if she's about to say a funny childhood story that everyone will get a kick out of. She tells me that when my stbx was HOURS away from marrying his first wife he called her from the beach where the wedding was and told her that he loved her and he didint know if he could get married. This "ex girlfriend" from 20 years ago was not just an ex gf, she was the mistress he was cheating on his fiance soon to be wife for years!!! He has his tux on is about to walk down the isle and calls his mistress??!! They are BOTH telling me this story laughing about it and Im in the middle thinking.....WTH????

WHY OH WHY did I not hear the message God was trying to warn me about? 
Im a horrible judge of character. I need intence IC . My sister says this all will make me smarter but when I have flashes of these things in my head I have to write them down so I can read later the flags that were flying around. I dont even know if I've posted that story here before so Im sorry if I did but having a mistress has been a way of life for him.

I need to learn what about me gives men like this the chance to hurt me to this extent........


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

stuck, I hope you get really good IC. Not because there's something wrong with you. There's not. But because ICs go to 10 years of college to learn BETTER ways to deal with things. And they pass on that knowledge to you. It's like asking an interior decorator to show you how to fix up your house so it looks like a magazine, not a Sears catalog picture. Trust them. Let them help you and guide you and get you to where you love yourself. Once you love yourself, you'll never get messed with again. Well, someone might try, but they'll never get a second chance.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

This book is more about abuse than plain narcissism, but I suspect it will hit home. Why Does He Do That? Inside The Minds Of Angry And Controlling Men.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

vi_bride04 said:


> This is the only statement you need to focus on.
> 
> Focus on this and use it to find the inner strength to leave him.
> 
> ...


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

Hiya.
It has been a few days since I posted but have been keeping up on my phone.
It is quiet a relief to see all the insane behavior repeated on the other side of the planet. Narcs really are as predictable as 'cheatervulagaris"

I know that your in incredible pain and I am not trying to vbe flippant, well maybe I am but that comes from being free of a narc!

How do you get free?
You stop engaging with him. This includes the seemingly sensible end of relationship counselling you are engaging in. Save yourself alot of pain because he will just use it as a platform to launch attacks. Narcs are normally smart and will be able to appear sensible, considerate and caring for the hour of the meeting. You will come out in a mess. Waste of time and energy in my opinion,.

He is a lawyer. Interesting.. One of the things we can do is use mental ju-jistu and turn his own insanity back on him 
Here is an idea that in the end worked for me. Because they genuinely think they are TOTALLY AWESOME and have no concept of your pain or, oh never mind.
Ask HIM about the split up. Ask HIM what he thinks is fair in terms of money and while he is in his fog of delicious choice get the absurdly generous payout SIGNED and done. Don't fight. It is only money. Just get out as fast and as cleanly as you can. 
Accept it . get it done. no lawyers. just a very expensive. look at me look at me.

What do other people think. It worked for me!


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

ing said:


> Hiya.
> It has been a few days since I posted but have been keeping up on my phone.
> It is quiet a relief to see all the insane behavior repeated on the other side of the planet. Narcs really are as predictable as 'cheatervulagaris"
> 
> ...


Interesting points you make. Accurate as well. When he left his first wife he told me that he gave her everything and then some because he wanted out so bad. He said "I was just so open I wanted out at all cost". His lawyer was the one that that had to talk him out of giving as much as he did. Ex wife now sits at home, quit her job, and he pays for ALL of her living expenses even 8 years later. Child support and then some and then some so you are more right then you realize my friend. 

I do remind myself of all the advice I get here and now his act of consideration , kindness and empathy are more transparent. I admit this would not have been transparent to me before. I would fall for it just like I did 1000x already. So when I see him humbling himself I close my eyes and remember what is said here. It's not easy yet but it's getting somewhat easy. They are very convincing and since your heart wants to believe it you end up weak. I continue to try.
In the session he was full of "your right". Very much on the understanding front. The therapist is a straight shooter. I really like her. She doesn't let him get away with anything. How much of this affects him? From what I'm told here..... None. 
I'm going because of my children. They have been through so much. If talking about my feelings goes in one ear and out the other but it gets it off of my chest then so be it. My children need a healthy and strong mother. I've been suffering from depression and thoughts of suicide even. This is a lot deeper then I can describe properly here. Not for him but for me I talk about what a fool I think he is. I don't talk about my hurt or my pain or cry. I don't give him that satisfaction. She asked him straight out of he's still talking to this woman and he said yes from time to time. (Lie I know). She said that is a huge problem... He said, it's not a crime to speak to her and our conversations have nothing to do with my wife so I don't see the problem. The therapist said "you have addictive personality behavior and what your doing is not a crime but it's not in the best interest of your family??!!" He said, "yes I know, your right"
( please shoot me ) 

When we got home the mouse was in full effect. He played with the baby and turns to me and says....
"Did I tell you how beautiful you are today? Well if I didn't I want you to know that regardless of our fights... You are absolutely gorgeous"

I said nothing.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Update here.........

He says he admits that he misled me and is the type of person that will just go with the flow cause he finds that eaiser then address things when they happen. Miseld me..........after 6 years he's saying this? Not miseld me into a one night stand type of thing he "misled" me into 6 years of my life , trusted with my daughters , wanted to officially adobpt my daughter, to the point I had his child and now he's saying he "misled me?""""""

I think this is past a narcissist. I really think this is beyond that. I think he's flat out nuts. Can someone really be this calculated and lie every day for this long? WHY is he coming clean now with this? Whats the purpose of this reveal. How does someone live with themselves KNOWING they did that????


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## BlueCalcite (Jul 15, 2013)

stuck on hold said:


> How does someone live with themselves KNOWING they did that????


Easy. Plenty of people don't have consciences. Without a conscience, there's no mechanism by which they can reach any sort of feelings of guilt.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

BlueCalcite said:


> Easy. Plenty of people don't have consciences. Without a conscience, there's no mechanism by which they can reach any sort of feelings of guilt.


Its just so difficult to accept this from a man that I thought was the TOTAL opposite of all of this behavior. Im sure he did and said things that told me this but he has NO concept of how his behavior has effected this family. He will say, "your right, or I take full responsibility" but its almost like he agrees. Its not taking ownership of it. He says it like if we are both TALKING ABOUT SOMEONE ELSE????????


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## Betrayedred (Jun 16, 2013)

Holy cow, I think we married the same man! I have been with mine for 3 years, and have a 10 week old with him. Funny thing is, I left last year because we were in a terrible cycle of verbally and emotionally abusive fighting with a smattering of physical abuse. I came back after I heard all the right things and saw the right things. Those things lasted until he didn't "feel" good anymore, and was still "hurt" because I left him. Then he began his relationship with a 21 year old, which spanned my dad's death, the rest of my pregnancy, the birth of our son, and up until our son was 6 weeks old. 

I disengaged, and he started responding. So I let down my guard again. And we've repeated that cycle a lot in the past month. After reading this thread, I can see things a bit more clearly. Oh my gosh. This is such an eye opener. I'm going to count the "I's" and "you's" for a while. 

Seriously, from the outside looking in, I can tell you, disengaging is the best thing! From one woman to another, who is living this, I can also commiserate with how hard that is. We too have a blended family, and my concern is often about how f**ked up his kids (from two different women) are. He also pulls the, "I want my son here," crud whenever I want to go somewhere else. It soooooooo hard. So very hard. 

We can do this, SOH, I know we can. One breath at a time, one foot in front of the other. Take the time that you need to get what you need. But inside, mentally and emotionally, detach. It's the only thing that's gonna help us mentally.

And, to reassure you---there is nothing WRONG with you. The poster who said that N's go for empathetic people is ABSOLUTELY spot on! I am frequently described as sweet (hehehe, they don't know the little evil side of me, but my WH is getting to know it), and easy to talk to. In fact, that's one of the things that WH said to me when we started dating---he liked how I was genuinely interested in HIM! Hahahahhaha! Keep being sweet, keep being kind, just not to HIM. 

Next time, if there is a next one, for all of us who are married to N's, we will just need to hone our picker a little bit better. And for me, I'll be asking my best friends who HAVE shown that they have my best interests at heart, to give me honest feedback and smack me if I don't listen!


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

I just wanted to see how you were. Many of the things you say bring back very painful memories of words spoken. 

The thing that bounced out at me was him seeing himself as disconnected from his actions. Almost like they were and are beyond his control. 

I also remembered that in the early stages of recovery I started to wonder if i was the narcissist as I demanded and turned the tables. It was the first time in living memory that i had said "No" to her. She really expected me to eventually give in and bless it. To be happy for her.
This did not happen. I pulled a TAM guided 180 which helped me see though multiple false reconciliation attempts. She was trying to drive it underground. I had a big shovel 

I had lost my job the week before she confessed to an EA and told me she was going to "have the relationship"
A few weeks later I remember telling my counselor that I was going to be selfish and end all contact with her. She just said. "I would too". It was an unguarded moment by her, but one that spoke volumes.

In the pain that came from her leaving I was desperate for company . I went on dating sites to fill in those lonely Sundays, a few weeks into my "friends only" dating i met a woman who confessed to an affair that she had been in 20 years previously on a first date. A terrible thing, but the remorse she showed at this was genuine, deep and heart felt. This was also a revelation. People when they are young mess up. She paid a high price then, but continues to this day to suffer the mental anguish of what she did to other people. 

It showed me something that i had long been wanting, an honest, although flawed, person doing there best in the world. 

My kids are better off. I did not think I would say that, My oldest lives with me and does not talk to her Mother. The youngest arrives and lets out a sigh of relief. She collapses on the couch, exhausted, from dealing with and being passive aggressive and surly. She isl immediately, and forcefully, called on it by both me and my eldest. You can see the armor fall away from her when she realizes that saying what you want is normal. Having time to yourself to pursue your interests is normal,. Dad going mental at the mess, is normal. Sister ignoring you, is normal.

Financially it was a disaster for years, all the savings gone. Reset to less that zero. Slowly and predictably I am pulling us out. Soon I will have no money. Excellent!

Oh and that woman I met? We have a careful relationship where our respective kids come first. This suits us both. We get a date night or two a week, a chat on the phone, the odd "mini-break" Mostly though we are safe to be who we are around each other. No pretending or trying to fix each other.

Birds of a Feather. 

I know this is long and rambling but maybe there is something there that is useful.
I know how hard it is, how you doubt every word, how you obsess about what he says. i know because I did it.

It is only his opinion and that is all.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Betrayedred said:


> Then he began his relationship with a 21 year old, which spanned my dad's death, the rest of my pregnancy, the birth of our son, and up until our son was 6 weeks old.
> 
> *Yes he started cheeting well before ( now i know this ) but with this person in particular when I was about to give birth and while my dad was on his death bed.........through today. My son is 21 months old.......... Maybe it is the same man?! *Seriously, from the outside looking in, I can tell you, disengaging is the best thing! From one woman to another, who is living this, I can also commiserate with how hard that is. We too have a blended family, and my concern is often about how f**ked up his kids (from two different women) are. He also pulls the, "I want my son here," crud whenever I want to go somewhere else. It soooooooo hard. So very hard.
> 
> ...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Hone your picker and also learn about boundaries/consequences.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

ing said:


> I just wanted to see how you were. Many of the things you say bring back very painful memories of words spoken.
> 
> The thing that bounced out at me was him seeing himself as disconnected from his actions. Almost like they were and are beyond his control.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your story. I like how you met someone who you share a "careful" relationship with. That is what I hope for myself in the future. I don’t want to ever dive into something 100% like this again. I can’t and won’t put my kids through this again. That gives me hope though so thank you. 

I do obsess about what he says and does. One of the MANY disturbing behaviors he has is this almost happy go lucky entitled skip in his step. Like he's my good friend who "understands" how I feel. One day when I was crying his response to me was "Yes, I understand how you feel believe me.Someone hurt me like that in my past and so I know how you feel trust me". 
Like I wasn’t talking about him??? This is really insane. All of it. He no longer wears his ring ( not that it ever mattered to him anyway) but he's in this private world of his. Happy to be in and out of events and phone calls. Like we are two happy roommates and he's going about his private life. We hardly speak and when we do it’s like a conversation of two strangers. This huge wall of privacy he's built. Hard to describe but it’s like he is my "friend" who's concerned about what I’m going through but respects my privacy and I’m to respect his and we just live under the same roof and have a baby. It’s INSANE. 
Disconnecting from that is easier some days than others. Many of the times it brings me anger not pain. I’m completely frustrated with his happy go lucky humming songs and laughing with others way of life. Last night he says "Oh let me call my sister who I havent spoken to in a while. I wonder how she's doing?!" Then whistles as he walks away. 

As I read the responces here its really really sad and comforting at the same time to know there are others who feel or felt exactly what Im feeling. This morning is one of the harder days and until I logged on and read again that there are others who know this behavior ............I was about to cry. Its not out of desperate pain. Its just frustration. 

We are working towards a means to an end but not sure how long thats going to be. 6 more weeks, 6 more months, dont know. He wont leave because he says he has no where to go. Yesterday I played the lotto and won $10........hence Im still living with him today.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

turnera said:


> Hone your picker and also learn about boundaries/consequences.


I have to be the worst person in the world on setting boundaries. Seriously........


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Have you read The Dance Of Anger? It's an awesome little book that teaches you how to do it without ticking anyone off. Lots of therapists recommend it.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I think the more pressing issue here in the OP's situation is that the H is a CHEATING [email protected]! He needs to get the hell out of your house, sorry. You CHEAT, you LEAVE. He seems to think he is entitled to have this other woman with you having full konwledge of it, and that you are just supposed to deal with it. Well you need to deal with it by getting his cheating ass out of your house. Sorry, I am just frustrated by all the concentration on his NPD and not enough on the cheating, POS part.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> I think the more pressing issue here in the OP's situation is that the H is a CHEATING [email protected]! He needs to get the hell out of your house, sorry. You CHEAT, you LEAVE. He seems to think he is entitled to have this other woman with you having full konwledge of it, and that you are just supposed to deal with it. Well you need to deal with it by getting his cheating ass out of your house. Sorry, I am just frustrated by all the concentration on his NPD and not enough on the cheating, POS part.


1000% agree and wake up call here. Funny, I was just sitting here thinking to myself that I've written pretty much all of his behavior off to "he's nuts", "he's a N", "he's insane". Really I was. Your post is like a slap in the head. Focus on the fact that he's a cheater . The N thing is just added to the list but what he is ......is a cheater. My focus on what I think is his illness and or mental limitations HAS given him the right to have this other woman with my knowledge. There is NO respect for me at all and the fact that I've withdrawn has given him more room to own this. He told the therapist that regardless if he still talks to her or not he is still going to have the same feelings about her so there is no reason not to talk to her. The therapist says, "that is a problem dont you think?" His responce, yes its a problem only because she doesnt want me to talk to her and I do it anyway but its not a crime. 
So its HARD not to choke him , its hard not to write him off as crazy, its hard to ignore him, its hard to deal with him period. 
You are so , so right though


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

turnera said:


> Have you read The Dance Of Anger? It's an awesome little book that teaches you how to do it without ticking anyone off. Lots of therapists recommend it.


I will look this book up today. I will try anything that will help me through this till I dont have to.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

stuck on hold said:


> My focus on what I think is his illness and or mental limitations HAS given him the right to have this other woman with my knowledge. There is NO respect for me at all and the fact that I've withdrawn has given him more room to own this. He told the therapist that *regardless if he still talks to her or not he is still going to have the same feelings about her so there is no reason not to talk to her.* The therapist says, "that is a problem dont you think?" His responce, yes *its a problem only because she doesnt want me to talk to her and I do it anyway but its not a crime.*
> So its HARD not to choke him , its hard not to write him off as crazy, its hard to ignore him, its hard to deal with him period.
> You are so , so right though


Speechless.
Blind him, reach your lawyer and kick him out, legally.
ASAP.
Why the hell you keep going to MC with him?


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Acabado said:


> Speechless.
> Blind him, reach your lawyer and kick him out, legally.
> ASAP.
> *Why the hell you keep going to MC with him?*


Yes, use the MC money to put a nice phat retainer down on a shark lawyer. 

Stop playing his games. You realize what he is (N) but that shouldn't negate the fact he is a serial cheating piece of crap!

Show him you are strong and don't need him. That is the biggest slap in the face to an N...that you don't want them or need them like they think you do.


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## GingerAle (Oct 13, 2013)

This relationship is beyond the help of a MC. You know what you have to do.

GINGER


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

We agreed about MC to try and minimize ( if possible ) further damage to the kids that have already been through this before. We are trying to figure out with the therapist the best way to unravel this fake relationship that all the children are invested in. It was actually his idea because he says I manipulate his words. 
Its not about our marriage its about the 5 kids involved. There is so much insanity on his part and JUSTIFIED cheating on his part that I need this "mediator" to assist me at some level. 
He's a lawyer himself so he knows how to talk his way in and out of things when its just us. With her around he cant do it. She is doing some backround on us so these things come up about our relationship. Yes this is beyond repair as GingerAle said here. 
She said she needs to get the story before she can serve as our mediator. 
Financial reasons are holding me back from saying to get the F* out but it will get there. There is no way this can continue much longer. In the meantime the process to get to that point is grueling. 

Interestingly enough he is respectful to one area of his life though. He's actually respectful to the affair. He has justified all of his behavior as "this is whats meant to be and this obstacle of my marriage falling apart is just preparing me for where I should be" 
Its like he's working with me to disolve the marriage and behaves like we should just happily work on this project to end it. I mean, in his head, he's being honest now with how he felt about me and how he feels about her so since he's being honest I should be happy about his loyalty to being the person he wants to be. 

I know when he's totally out of the house and we have made the arangements about the kids I will be on my slow road to recovery. I have a lot to fix with myself though. I married a man who has now told me that for 6 years he's misled me into a relationship, living together, a step mom to his kids, and a mother to his son. How in the hell do I trust and believe anyone after this is over? He said to the therapist that he doesnt want to rob me the opportunity to be loved like I want or deserves by someone else. 
He has already robbed me of it all. Of ever believing in marriage or that someone who said they loved me really does love me, or of having a real wedding, of trusting , of even hearing a love song. He's already robbed me of being able to trust life. I mean for 6 years this man was 100mph in this relationship and all of the sudden once this affair is discovered..........He misled me so lets end this all. The therapist even said, but there was nothing leading up to this in your relationship with her so there is nothing she can hang her hat on. He said, Yes I have a terrible happit of just going with the flow with things in life cause I find that easier then addressing things at the time. All of his answers are that casual. The one person I've confided in at work things that Im lying sometimes because she cant believe the things he says and does. She says that MY story has broken HER spirit. 

Lets not forget that he's been seeing psychiatrist of his own for 8 years so maybe this is all self torture for myself. I dont know what the heck I think Im going to acomplish here even if its for the kids............ 


How do you get up from this fall.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Ignore him.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

stuck on hold said:


> Lets not forget that he's been seeing psychiatrist of his own for 8 years so maybe this is all self torture for myself. I dont know what the heck I think Im going to acomplish here even if its for the kids............


THIS MAN has been in therapy for 8 years?? WOW! CLEARLY, he is lying his ass off in his sessions, gaslighting the psychiatrist!


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Question to ask my soon to be divorce attny.........My sons father clearly displays poor judgement. HE went out and had the affair. Why do I have to share my time with my son and him? I DO NOT want a 50/50 share. I should NOT have to share my son cause his father misled me into this marriage and relationship. I know with therapist / mediator or not he is going to fight me on this one but I dont see WHY I have to be with out my son on certain days just cause of his deception???


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## mamabear131617 (Oct 5, 2013)

I couldn't live with him. It was too much. Even when I tried to distance myself he would find a way to cause emotional turmoil. Shortly before I planned to leave I stroked his ego all the time just to avoid fights. It worked! But I wouldn't do it as a long term thing.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

stuck on hold said:


> Question to ask my soon to be divorce attny.........My sons father clearly displays poor judgement. HE went out and had the affair. Why do I have to share my time with my son and him? I DO NOT want a 50/50 share. I should NOT have to share my son cause his father misled me into this marriage and relationship. I know with therapist / mediator or not he is going to fight me on this one but I dont see WHY I have to be with out my son on certain days just cause of his deception???


Unfortunately, stuck, that is the predicament you were in the instant you became pregnant - that you could some day be forced to lose part of your time with your child, as the other parent does have legal rights.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

turnera said:


> Unfortunately, stuck, that is the predicament you were in the instant you became pregnant - that you could some day be forced to lose part of your time with your child, as the other parent does have legal rights.


This is why when he says " I dont want to rob her of this or that" I want to reach over and choke him. Seems like he took it all and now will continue to take. He got everything he wanted out of this and then some. Now he's going to take my son away. This is truly like a death sentence for me. Maybe I can minimize his time?? I'll have to ask. 

Maybe IF this doesnt get ugly I can trick him into less time with him. OMG


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I think that he sounds selfish enough that he probably wont WANT a lot of time with your son.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> I think that he sounds selfish enough that he probably wont WANT a lot of time with your son.


I hope so but I doubt it. He says to me, please leave me alone and alow me to do the one thing Im good at and let me be a father to my kids. 

Also, I see how he goes back and forth with his ex wife now about his daughters. Its changed some now that they are 14 but when they were younger it was always a heavy scheduale. 2x per week and every other weekend , christmas , etc etc. Its because they are girls and now have their own life that THEY have chosen to see him less but I think he uses the father role to say "im not with YOU but I am a good father". All the while the kids are in this back and forth hell.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Just updating here.............turns out he's done this to all relationships in his past including the one with his "mistress". Cheating, depression, unsatisfied, always looking for somethng else. Always brings a dark cloud over his relationships. He visited a behavorial specialist to try and figure out why he has this "addiciton" to this particular woman. Why he was always able to walk away from hundreds of women in his past with out a thought but not from this one in particular. He litterally cannot get past that relationship / affair and thats why she's turned up in my marriage again. 

He does not sleep. He will fall asleep for about 2 hrs then wakes up and reads or gets on his phone for hours . Last night I heard him wake up around 1 and go back to bed at around 4. Therapist says those are things people who suffer from depression do. Iregular sleep patterns. 

He told her that our son is his only respite. He is the only thing keeping him together. hmmmmm, I though it was his mistress? Now its his son? So is he now trying to say that if I take my son he'll harm himself?????


SO NOW Im dealing with a serial cheater with behavorial addictions who suffers from depression and is a N. 

TO ME everything else on his growing list is small in comparision to his cheating.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

She was his first big love, right? It's VERY common to keep them in some special bubble in your mind as the 'perfect' one, because at the time, you were feeling all these new wonderful feelings, and you remember those FEELINGS, not the actual person. So your brain, when you think of that person, fires the synapse that goes straight to that pleasure point, and you feel good. Person = feel good.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Please say something!! I did exactly what I wasnt suppose to do. I engaged, i interacted, I let out my thoughts!!!!!!!!! I just couldnt help it. I was laying in bed and he was downstairs and i just HAD to go and say something. 

I told him that I have no respect for him. That I will NEVER forgive him for doing this to our son and to our family. I told him that he sucks. i told him to get out and figure out what in the hell he's going to tell his daughter about this break up. His reponce this morning: 

"your not the only person that loves our son and sleeping in another room serves no purpose other than showing to the rest of the kids that we are finished. I love him despite all you say and rant. Im not moving out so I have no plan to say anything to my daughters. i have no plans to leave for another person. Anyway you do what you think is best. 

I DID reply to this but its more of the same that i've posted here. How he lied to me, how we have a son that he ****ed over for his own selfishness. How he is selfish etc etc etc. 

I just couldnt help it but i had to tell him to leave and I had to tell him how much he sucks. 

I need to regroup and start over again today with ignoring...........


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

And planning how you're going to leave.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

stuck on hold said:


> "your not the only person that loves our son and sleeping in another room serves no purpose other than showing to the rest of the kids that we are finished. I love him despite all you say and rant. Im not moving out so I have no plan to say anything to my daughters. * i have no plans to leave for another person.* Anyway you do what you think is best.
> .


Exactly! He instead plans to keep cake eating by continuing to screw HER while he strings you along!


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> Exactly! He instead plans to keep cake eating by continuing to screw HER while he strings you along!


oh now this man claims he is not stringing me along........ANYMORE. He says that he has a terrible character flaw that goes with the flow rather then saying something when he should. So that when 4 years into our relationship and now 7 mths pregnant he said to himself, "I dont think we should get married" he saw this coming and wanted not to do it. So I said, what difference does it make when Im 2mths away from delivering this baby and there are 4 other children in this house. What does being married stop or change???? 

He feels that because he's "came clean" when i was 7 mths pregnant that i was aware at that point in time of his true feelings and that he "told me" we shouldnt do it. 

I find myself repeating myself to him constantly and telling him that none of the 5 children in our home give a cr*p about hour maritial status and that we have been sharing a relationship and a family and NOW A BABY. How about respecting that? 

He gave no responce. 

So he is insisting that he's not leaving . Well we are BOTH going to eat cake then. Im not contributing one dime to the household expenses. Im saving all of my money till i can move out and take my son with me. Not a dime. He wants to eat cake, well we can both eat cake. I dont see WHY he wants to live like this and was his intention to leave all this time?? Im sure he's getting his "advice" from the mistress who is claiming victim all over. 

The therapist suggusted i go see a Dr. about anti depressents. I refuse. After all the things this man has done to me already I am now going to end up taking meds like he is??? 

He text me and told me to please make the appointment to go see a Dr and please take meds. He says, I've been where you are and i am where you are still so please go get help.

Can you beleive this SOB? I told him I was exhausted by him and his depression and his dark cloud and I will be damnd if Im going to end up taking meds because of his miserable ***


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

turnera said:


> And planning how you're going to leave.


He wont leave so i will save all my money till I have enough to leave. From now till then I will have to survive on prayers so I dont go insane with anger. To watch this man unfold this way is something i cant describe. I resent him so much that I cant stand the sight of him but have to live with him.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

stuck on hold said:


> I'm not contributing one dime to the household expenses. I'm saving all of my money till i can move out and take my son with me. Not a dime. He wants to eat cake, well we can both eat cake. I don't see WHY he wants to live like this and was his intention to leave all this time??


Good to hear.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

stuck on hold said:


> TO ME everything else on his growing list is small in comparision to his cheating.


I think as you begin to detach and become a healthier person, you will see everything he does as equally damaging. Constant lying creates an environment of distrust, disrespect, etc. Same can be said for gambling away the family finances, sexual rejection in favor of cheating and porn/masturbation, secret financial activity, and all the little pa behavior. A year ago I would have thought cheating was so much worse. It is all the same now. It is like repeatedly spitting in my face, because he could have stopped it and chose not to.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Make sure you take time for yourself. Leave him with the kids at least once a week and go window shopping or for a massage or something. Treat yourself special.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

stuck on hold said:


> oh now this man claims he is not stringing me along........ANYMORE. He says that he has a terrible character flaw that goes with the flow rather then saying something when he should. So that when 4 years into our relationship and now 7 mths pregnant he said to himself, "I dont think we should get married" he saw this coming and wanted not to do it. So I said, what difference does it make when Im 2mths away from delivering this baby and there are 4 other children in this house. What does being married stop or change????
> 
> He feels that because he's "came clean" when i was 7 mths pregnant that i was aware at that point in time of his true feelings and that he "told me" we shouldnt do it.
> 
> ...


They never cease to amaze me. Blame shifting. He blames you for being married, which excuses him from the current situation.   However, you bring it to his attention that a piece of paper did not change the fact that he was already in a marital like relationship with you BEFORE the piece of paper. So, blame shifted back to him and he wasn't expecting it, so he has no response. Typical. Silence is his way of saying you are right. Silence is his way of saying he isn't going to change.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

turnera said:


> Make sure you take time for yourself. Leave him with the kids at least once a week and go window shopping or for a massage or something. Treat yourself special.


Absolutely! My biggest piece of advice for someone in this situation is to NOT lose yourself!


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

turnera said:


> Make sure you take time for yourself. Leave him with the kids at least once a week and go window shopping or for a massage or something. Treat yourself special.


I must, must do this. I sometimes run to my children as my refuge and I get lost in that and so its hard for me to detach from them. I see them as my safety net but at the same time thats what keeps me home and so I dont get to be away from him. I must do this. I need to do this


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Do you have any friends you can call?


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

SaltInWound said:


> They never cease to amaze me. Blame shifting. He blames you for being married, which excuses him from the current situation.  However, you bring it to his attention that a piece of paper did not change the fact that he was already in a marital like relationship with you BEFORE the piece of paper. So, blame shifted back to him and he wasn't expecting it, so he has no response. *Typical. Silence is his way of saying you are right. Silence is his way of saying he isn't going to change.*




Thats the feeling I get when he doesnt respond. I told him he can try and sell that BS story to someone else but he is NOT going to get away with it with me. I throw this right back at him because he says this ALL THE TIME. Last week at therapy he said, yes I misled her. This week he is back to, "but i told her we shouldnt get married". I lost it. He is trying to re-write history to my face. I constantly have to throw it back at him.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

oh and btw, the therapist ( as some of you here ) has no idea what our goal is with going to see her. I told her for my part its a place where I can be heard in a safe enviorment. I told her in order for me to get to a place where I can even discuss what we need to do for my son I need for him to hear me out with a third party involved so that I can make some informend decisions. 

She wants us to write up what our intentions are with therapy on paper and then read them to her infront of each other next week. So far my list.......I want him out , I DONT want to share my son but I know I have to, I DONT want to hurt the other children, He wanted out so bad, so why hasnt he left? You know why???? Because he protects the mistress to the end. He will defend her by saying that she was NOT the reason the first marriage ended. If he leaves this marriage now, not only do his daughters suffer and he has to explain why, but his mistress will truly look like the mistress and he wont be able to argue otherwise and protect her. He doesnt leave because it doesnt benefit HIM thats why


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

stuck on hold said:


> I constantly have to throw it back at him.


No you don't.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

turnera said:


> No you don't.


I do have friends i can call and I already thought if this weekend gets to close for comfort I might just have to let him take the baby out with him and his daughters or leave for a little while and leave the baby with him. I work every day and so the weekends are my time to be with him so i HATE leaving him at all. I might just take him with me maybe. 

I feel like i have to throw it back at him because it BURNS the hell out of me how he tries to sell ME this story. I know i shouldnt but when he says it.........i go nuts. I will try...........


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

You know he is saying it on purpose just to get a reaction out of you, right?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

stuck, you know it's not healthy to spend all your free time with your spouse, right? You become too enmeshed that way and lose sight of yourself - as you have done. 

A healthy marriage includes time for BOTH partners to have fulfilling aspects of their lives that are just for them.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

stuck on hold said:


> I feel like I have to throw it back at him because it BURNS the hell out of me how he tries to sell ME this story. I know I shouldn't but when he says it.........I go nuts. I will try...........


You throw it back because you want him to know you aren't buying it, right? Throwing it back is EXACTLY what he wants from you. 

The best way to show him that you're not buying it - and that he can no longer gaslight you - is to NOT CARE that he's trying to manipulate you. In fact, LAUGHING at him, shaking your head (you poor thing), and walking away when he says it will be even _doubly _irritating to him.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

turnera said:


> You throw it back because you want him to know you aren't buying it, right? Throwing it back is EXACTLY what he wants from you.
> 
> The best way to show him that you're not buying it - and that he can no longer gaslight you - is to NOT CARE that he's trying to manipulate you. In fact, LAUGHING at him, shaking your head (you poor thing), and walking away when he says it will be even _doubly _irritating to him.


I hear you.....why is it that I insist that letting him know how I feel is what I NEED and what he DESERVES to hear? What you say makes perfect sense yet I am my own worst enemy. I am fortunate enough to have a brother in law that is so smart and we had a nice talk tonight. I vent like a crazy woman to whoever will listen. Im afraid I've drained him half to death. He said that he can tell I need to be heard and I feel the need to have my stbx hear me but that when I feel I have gotten it all out I NEED to focus on myself. He feels I focus way to much on my son and that I am not paying attention to myself. 

I refuse to take meds though. I just wont......


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

vi_bride04 said:


> You know he is saying it on purpose just to get a reaction out of you, right?


Yes on purpose.....Im sure. It doesn't feel like that at the time. It feels like he's really thinking he's right and that automatically sets a button off in me. 

I have yet to master the ignore and walk away response but I am trying. I actually fight with myself more then I fight with him.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Tonight was a great night but Im not sure now if it was as great as I think it was. It was great in the sense that I left work early, came home to my son, got him dressed and took him to the mall where my sister works to walk around with his costume and eat some candy. He had the best time. He ate more candy then any mother should let her child eat. He was dressed in such a cute costume we got stopped about 100x. I wish I could post a picture but I cant. He is just the sweetest baby. When Im with my son I feel alive, protected, and in love. Yes, I have 5 children and Lord knows I love them ll but my son is my weakness and my strength. We had a fabulous evening, 

Why do I say this might also be a bad thing? Because both here on TAM and speaking to my brother in law tonight and actually my therapist.....I am not taking time out for me and I dont even know how to do that. I have the option to go away for a week on vacation wherever I want and I just cant. I cant leave him. I feel like any day away from him is a day lost. I will go on vacation but I want to take him with me. Thats not time to myself but thats the only way I can enjoy myself. I CANT separate myself from him. Especially for a week??!! I contemplated going to a Spa in Arizona alone with a book and get a massage every day and some wine but I cant leave my son. Not yet. 

Lord , am I headed towards depression but dont realize it???


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

stuck on hold said:


> I will go on vacation but I want to take him with me. Thats not time to myself but thats the only way I can enjoy myself. I CANT separate myself from him.


Bullshyte. Of course you can. What would you do if you got cancer and were in the hospital for a month?

You are making knee-jerk reactions to soothe yourself because your spouse isn't soothing you. BTDT. I fill my days with instant gratifications to make up for the lack. NOT healthy. 

Do you want to still be around in 5 years for him? Then FORCE yourself to spend time away from him (your son). In other words, grow up and be the adult and take care of yourself first so you can be there for him long-term.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

turnera said:


> You throw it back because you want him to know you aren't buying it, right? Throwing it back is EXACTLY what he wants from you.
> 
> The best way to show him that you're not buying it - and that he can no longer gaslight you - is to NOT CARE that he's trying to manipulate you. In fact, LAUGHING at him, shaking your head (you poor thing), and walking away when he says it will be even _doubly _irritating to him.


I thought about this a lot and this morning I did just this. Bottom line is for right now he's not moving out. So if for the next week, the next month I have to find a way to survive and not be so miserable. I have to engage at some level , about the baby, the other kids, and misc item so in those engagements I have to find a way NOT to lash out or show him reaction. When he decides to be a certain way I need to react as you suggested here so that it difuses the situation. When I speak or "say how i feel" or call him out for being an a** it really goes no where. I need to find a survivial mode regardless of the amount of time I get from point A to point B. I just need to stick to what I decide and not be so wishy washy and let HIS behavior affect mine. Im on survivial mode here..........


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

turnera said:


> Bullshyte. Of course you can. What would you do if you got cancer and were in the hospital for a month?
> 
> You are making knee-jerk reactions to soothe yourself because your spouse isn't soothing you. BTDT. I fill my days with instant gratifications to make up for the lack. NOT healthy.
> 
> Do you want to still be around in 5 years for him? Then FORCE yourself to spend time away from him (your son). In other words, grow up and be the adult and take care of yourself first so you can be there for him long-term.


The guilt I feel for him having such a selfish father plays into why I feel the need to be my sons 110% mom. Any time I spend away from him that he's with his father Im twirlling my fingers till he gets back. 
Last Sat I spent the entire day pretty much with a friend. I left at 2 and came back around 9. We had lunch, drinks, and laughed. Guess what?????? My stbx had an attitude when I got back. Making coments that I shouldnt have been away at a bar for 7 hours. Giving me major attitude. He is the one that says , Go enjoy I have my son with me then I go and if the time Im away passes the time he thinks is "appropriate" I get an attitude from him. Sometimes even when I have the baby with me he'll text me after about 2 hours to ask when Im coming home and the baby should be home etc. Even yesterday while we were trick or treating I got home at 9 and he says I kept him out to late and should have been home with him by 8 or earlier??????

What Im thinking is that you make me crazy IN the marriage and now that we are on our way to seperate you have attitude about what I do with my free time???? If there is one thing I should have some peace in is getting out of the house with or with out my son to enjoy myself. Once the clock hits a certain hour ( 7pm or later ) its attitude when I get home. I dont get it. 

Anyway, yes, I need to put my foot down and go away even if for a long weekend and put the guilt aside..........

I hate my stbx..............


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## motherofone (Jan 10, 2013)

I know how you feel. You have to take care of yourself. Even if it is one hour in your house doing something for you. 

I always put my daughter first and hardly ever leave her. She got sick and I was up 4 days straight taking care of her. I passed out. You are no good to your son if you end up in the hospital. That moment was my wake up call that my N h was the sole source of my immense stress. That changed me to take care of myself so I could take care of my daughter.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

stuck on hold said:


> I thought about this a lot and this morning I did just this. Bottom line is for right now he's not moving out. So if for the next week, the next month I have to find a way to survive and not be so miserable. I have to engage at some level , about the baby, the other kids, and misc item so in those engagements I have to find a way NOT to lash out or show him reaction. When he decides to be a certain way I need to react as you suggested here so that it difuses the situation. When I speak or "say how i feel" or call him out for being an a** it really goes no where. I need to find a survivial mode regardless of the amount of time I get from point A to point B. I just need to stick to what I decide and not be so wishy washy and let HIS behavior affect mine. Im on survivial mode here..........


He is now no different from your mailman. Do you engage your mailman in heart to heart talks? Of course not. Treat him with that same level of respect. That's how you get through it until you can leave.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

stuck on hold said:


> We had lunch, drinks, and laughed. Guess what?????? My stbx had an attitude when I got back.


So? That's HIS problem.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

motherofone said:


> I know how you feel. You have to take care of yourself. Even if it is one hour in your house doing something for you.
> 
> I always put my daughter first and hardly ever leave her. She got sick and I was up 4 days straight taking care of her. I passed out. You are no good to your son if you end up in the hospital. That moment was my wake up call that my N h was the sole source of my immense stress. That changed me to take care of myself so I could take care of my daughter.


Thank you. Im careful ( as I reminded here by someone ) not to excuse his behavior and chuck it all up to him be a N. I mean is IS that but he's many other things as well. If Im not carefull I can put him in this box of a person who has this N "disease" and almost excuse it all or rationalize it. 

Yes I need to take care of myself and I feel best when Im away from him. Not that we fight 24/7 or that it ever gets violent but the anger goes to level 10 the minute I see him. I cant stand the sight of him even if he's sleeping. Thats so unhealthy because I imagine my kids must pick up on that. I just dont know how to manage myself around him with out having a glass of wine or two or three to numb my thoughts. Regardless if he's nice or an a** I feel the same. So yes I need to peel myself away from my son and the kids ........


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

turnera said:


> He is now no different from your mailman. Do you engage your mailman in heart to heart talks? Of course not. Treat him with that same level of respect. That's how you get through it until you can leave.


There was a thread on here that i read of a man who said him and his wife were living together only for their kids . i think ages 5 and 7?? Anyway, he said they dont have sex, the dont fight, they get along but are not "together". Till the kids are older. 

Whats his survivial mode I wonder? Must be the same as you say here. He probably treats her like she is as connected as any person he sees on the street. 

I have to stop fighting and venting or as my STBX calls it, "ranting" . I find that comment so insulting cause as Im thinking Im expressing my feelings to someone who fooled me into this relationship he's actually calling it "ranting". The other night when I lost it and told him what I thought of him he rolled his eyes when I was done. and I STILL dont get it that he DOESNT GIVE A SH** 

My survivial mode has to be less and not more. Im an emotional person by nature so self control does not come easy for me. 

I look forward to posting here with things that say....Remember when I use to say this or that. Or look forward to commenting on someone else who is going through this crap cause this is hell right now though.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Is there really no way at all to move out and away from this man? You sound like you're sucked into a vortex that both tortures you and feeds your morbid connection.

He is not an evil monster who is controlling you. He is a toxic narcissist with probable psychopathic tendencies who rolls through life alternately charming and destroying the women he is with. But he is definitely human & as such he will get sick, shrivel and die a pathetic old man, just like all the others who misspend their lives and hurt others in the process.

You have choices. Are you really, really incapable of leaving? If you've filed for divorce, why do you two have to be in the same house? If you haven't filed, why haven't you?

He's just another selfish SOB living his life for his own aggrandizement. That's all he is. Cut him out of your heart and out of your life. People say it's easier said than done, but with the sort of bastard your WH is, it's really much easier than you think.


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## Insanity (Oct 28, 2013)

This is another one of those situations that just render me *speechless*... particularly the husband's response of "Yeah yeah ok, this is my fault right. All of this is happening just because I was F*ing some woman. Yeah ok. " 

"...j_ust because_..."... "..._just because_..."....?!


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> Is there really no way at all to move out and away from this man? You sound like you're sucked into a vortex that both tortures you and feeds your morbid connection.
> 
> *He is not an evil monster who is controlling you. He is a toxic narcissist with probable psychopathic tendencies who rolls through life alternately charming and destroying the women he is with. But he is definitely human & as such he will get sick, shrivel and die a pathetic old man, just like all the others who misspend their lives and hurt others in the process*.
> 
> ...


honestly its fincialy reasons, my daughters school, and my sons day care. So for me to stay there is easier for my children. I dont know of anyone around my area that i could go to. Anywhere I go I will have to disrupt their school etc. So I ask him to leave. He will not. I tell him its selfish of him to do what he's done and then bascially squat at the house. I know its more about the way he'll look to the outside world. His freinds, his daughters. This has nothing to do with me. Its still all about him. If I move I'll need the money to stay around my area so my kids can stay where they are. So Im saving my money and trying to survive mentally till I can move out.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Alte Dame

*He is not an evil monster who is controlling you. He is a toxic narcissist with probable psychopathic tendencies who rolls through life alternately charming and destroying the women he is with. But he is definitely human & as such he will get sick, shrivel and die a pathetic old man, just like all the others who misspend their lives and hurt others in the process*.

So true and this is EXACLTY how his father died. ALONE. His father had multiple women and multiple children and lived his life as he wanted when he wanted and with who he wanted. In the end he died completely alone. He died before I met stbx but I know the story.......Ironic huh?


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Insanity said:


> This is another one of those situations that just render me *speechless*... particularly the husband's response of "Yeah yeah ok, this is my fault right. All of this is happening just because I was F*ing some woman. Yeah ok. "
> 
> "...j_ust because_..."... "..._just because_..."....?!



Hell I tell you.............


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

stuck on hold said:


> So true and this is EXACLTY how his father died. ALONE. His father had multiple women and multiple children and lived his life as he wanted when he wanted and with who he wanted. In the end he died completely alone. He died before I met stbx but I know the story.......Ironic huh?


Break the cycle.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Unless they are in high school, changing schools won't kill them. If they get to move into a calm, loving home, in fact, it will help them.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

turnera said:


> Unless they are in high school, changing schools won't kill them. If they get to move into a calm, loving home, in fact, it will help them.


It may sound like excuses but as you said earlier, its easier said then done. My daughter who just turned 13 and is full of insecurities and "at that age" beggs me to stay in our area when she hears me even mention moving. She's switched school 3 times already and this middle school means a lot to her. My son, of course he would be eaiser but I'd have to entrust him to someone new and new routine and area and a new sitter to pick him up. 

I dont want to disrupt them. Yes I need to get them into a healthier enviorment and thats why I dont get why this man doesnt leave. Maybe Im not at the point where I feel I've exhausted all of my avenues. I have no money saved so If I got up and left today there would be no where to go other then to my mother who lives in a building for old folks with one bedroom. I have cousins who live about 30 minuts away and my sister who lives about 45 minutes away. I dont want to drag family into this and make myself even more crazy then I already am. It would be one dysfunctional setting for another. 

Im trying to survive through this mentally till I can save money to move alone with my kids and stay where they are comfortable and not move them into a spare room or a basment where its not healthy for them either. So as long as I adhere to the advice here about my interactions I'll survive better then on my own. Its my interactions with him that gets my emotions crazy. If I DONT tell him how I feel and I look the other way and I laugh his stupidity off and treat him like the mailman I wont have to be on the recieving end of anymore blows to my emotions. Its learning to master this that I find hard to do. 

Its a miserable situation period. Miserable.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Then spend some of what money you do have on therapy. To help you get stronger.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

turnera said:


> Then spend some of what money you do have on therapy. To help you get stronger.


1000% agree. I think the therapist I've seen with him a few times now also thinks that. Heck my brother in law last night said the same thing. Now you. 

No one knows anything about TAM so its not like he would have any idea and he says to me last night....."wow, you sound like you are in some holding pattern huh? Just on hold arent you?"

I thought of TAM and my name here and had to laugh a little.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

turnera said:


> Unless they are in high school, changing schools won't kill them. If they get to move into a calm, loving home, in fact, it will help them.


I agree. Make the move.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

There was one sentence that I kept repeating every time she tried to initiate a "conversation" or talk about "us" or the "family" He will use these to hit your buttons because he knows how musch it matters to you.

"When you have broken off with your girlfriend, we can talk." 

It became almost like a mantra for me. It served to remind me of the reality of the situation. There is absolutely no point in talking, listening or engaging on anything other than bills until this is the case. 
BTW. He will spiral into more madness when you say it, however you won't be listening to it, will you


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

ing said:


> There was one sentence that I kept repeating every time she tried to initiate a "conversation" or talk about "us" or the "family" He will use these to hit your buttons because he knows how musch it matters to you.
> 
> "When you have broken off with your girlfriend, we can talk."
> 
> ...


It's interesting how HE cheated HE ended the relationship and he is walking around with attitude with me as if I'm the one that's ending this. 
His daughters are here this weekend and they have no clue what's going on so he as the coward that he is will play it off and overcompensate and pretend then looks at me every now and then and rolls his eyes. Lol 
I'm laughing because this man is 48 and is so immature and is such a phony...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

turnera said:


> Then spend some of what money you do have on therapy. To help you get stronger.


Hi Turnera..... I did not pay one single bill this month except for my sons nanny. I know I should have saved more money but I booked a massage and bought myself VERY expensive shoes. Oh yes, I also went out for drinks yesterday with coworkers. 
It did feel good and I kept repeating to myself to treat myself better and it's ok to back off from my children.... My son really. 
Now I have to find a place to go with these expensive shoes!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

I come on here often to read other threads but of course to get advice on my own problems. 

I just read that the very popular thread "something creepy is happening in my home " posted by Rosie was a troll? 

Thats so disappointing Im not trying to be a baby here but I speak for myself when i say that I come on here for true advice. The fact that someone who is basically fake got so much attention from everyone is disheartening. There are people here ( like me ) that need real help. How do we know if the people giving us advice are not trolls themselves?? This thread went crazy. Everyday and every night everyone jumped all over it. Sad that it was fake. Took away from the real problems here.......


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

If it helps any, many people here, myself included, stopped posting on that thread a while ago. There's a difference between posting for advice and posting for attention and it was clear after some time that she was doing the latter.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> If it helps any, many people here, myself included, stopped posting on that thread a while ago. There's a difference between posting for advice and posting for attention and it was clear after some time that she was doing the latter.


Such a shame that people do things like that. People just never stop surprising me I guess. I for one count on the advice given to me here and truly use it in my personal situation. Unfortunatley its only after a long and involved thread that the smart people here figure out it was a scam. Taking time away from people that really need it. Shame......


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Today I was told, " I dont give a F* about my affair being exposed to you. Its my reputation and my career that Im upset about that knows about this. 

I know I shouldnt have said anything but I said, Really? You dont care that I found out? 

He said, "thats not my point but you do with that as you wish". 

Maybe an alien came in and switched out the man I married. There is no way I could have been this blind to who he really was. Seriously NOTHING like this at all.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You'll see that we very often DO say to look at your WS as though an alien took them over. The script is just that for a reason - they all go through the same shame-fill rationalization and stupid actions in this self-destruct mode.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

turnera said:


> You'll see that we very often DO say to look at your WS as though an alien took them over. The script is just that for a reason - they all go through the same shame-fill rationalization and stupid actions in this self-destruct mode.


As sucky as it is Im sorry to say Im VERY happy to hear this is a script cause although you know this is done and they are S.O.B's it HURTS to hear. You try to get immune to the insults but while you're going through it its hard to be immune to everything. 

Again glad to hear this is typical.........ouch......


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Affairs are a sticky mess. Being victimized by a cheating spouse has many difficulties. The least of which is not knowing what in the world is going on. Your spouse has turned into someone you can hardly recognize. Their actions are making absolutely no sense and you don't know what is going to happen next.

The Cheaters Script

Ever since I myself was the victim of infidelity I've been involved with post-affair recovery. For the past ten years I've researched and studied hundreds of post-affair cases. In my studies I have found that cheaters almost always follow the same script. The subtleties may be different but the actions they take mirror one another from case to case. Knowing what to expect can give the victim a solid footing in this uncertain time. Here are three things you can be certain the cheater will do:

They Ended the Affair 
That means, at some point they will tell you they ended the affair. They will have no solid proof that this actually occurred and will expect you to believe them at face value. Don't fall for this. I have yet to see in my ten years one single case where this was true. Not one single case! A true end to an affair happens when there is 100% no contact between the two involved. That means, no emails, Facebook, text, late night chats, or "accidental" meetings. You as the victim must demand solid proof that this has occurred before you can believe it or risk going down this road again and again.

Blame Shift 
"If you only would have been there for me." "I was filling a need that you neglected." "If you could only see it from my perspective, I had no other choice." "You see, you never listen." "You were drifting away from me." Any of those sound familiar? The cheater will without a doubt try to push the blame onto the victim. Every single flaw in the marriage will be exploited for their advantage and placed on the victims head. Do not be caught of guard by this. The truth is you do not own any part of the affair. It was a choice made by the cheater and for the cheater. There is nothing you could have done to prevent it and nothing you did caused it. There's a reason why the phrase "blame shifting" starts with the letters B and S.

Gaslighting 
Definition: Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse in which false information is presented to the victim (or about the victim to others) with the intent of making the abuser look like the good guy. The abuser most often tries to alter the victims sense of reality, resulting in the victim questioning there own perception.

At its worst, Gaslighting is severe psychological abuse used to make the victim feel like they are going crazy. Here's an example: The abuser verbally attacks the victim, saying many hurtful things that result in the victim crying. Then instead of apologizing, the abuser recommends that the victims seeks "help" for their mental instability. At their least, Gaslighters will exaggerate the truths of a certain situation. They might say "You are a complete control freak" in response to you (the victim) wanting transparency in the marriage.

I would be very surprised if your wayward spouse wasn't Gaslighting you in some respect. Nearly all of the cases I have looked into have had Gaslighting present in one form or another. Don't be fooled by this tactic. Be sure to trust your own perception and do not allow yourself to be pushed into a corner. Get proof and expose their lies right away to one and all that are involved. The subtleties of Gaslighting can be hard todetect at first, especially since you are going through such an emotional time right now. I suggest you do a Google search on "Gaslighting" to familiarize yourself more fully with this complex issue.

Cheating is a horrific betrayal. The victim is usually ill prepared for what is going on around them. Lets face it, in most cases the cheater has had ample time to formulate how they are going to handle this situation. The victim, on the other hand is caught off guard completely. The one thing the victim can count on is the knowledge that the cheater will follow the script. The information outlined above is by no means a complete list. However, they are the three most common tactics that I have found cheaters use. Educate yourself, protect yourself and do not fall for the script. Having prior knowledge of these tactics will give you a leg up in dealing with post-affair trauma.



Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/6532239


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

stuck on hold said:


> Today I was told, " I dont give a F* about my affair being exposed to you. Its my reputation and my career that Im upset about that knows about this.
> 
> I know I shouldnt have said anything but I said, Really? You dont care that I found out?
> 
> ...


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

turnera said:


> Affairs are a sticky mess. Being victimized by a cheating spouse has many difficulties. The least of which is not knowing what in the world is going on. Your spouse has turned into someone you can hardly recognize. Their actions are making absolutely no sense and you don't know what is going to happen next.
> 
> The Cheaters Script
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for this. I will read this again tonight to remind me to keep my sanity. All of the above it true especially the gaslighting. It makes me nautious to read how this is typical behavior almost like a Cult that all cheaters sign up for. 

Today I will admit I feel defeated. There are days where Im uplifted and feel strong but today is NOT one of those days. Actually Im going to read my entire thread tonight and get reminded of everything. 

I think looking at the same person you once trusted with your life as the enemy is such a lonely feeling. 

BTW I did expose this to all involved and guess what........he says its my fault this got so bad and thats why his career is on the line now........because of me. Thats why he says he doesnt give a F* about the exposure to me but when it was exposed to others THATS what he is concerned about. He says his career could have been ruined but the exposure. 

I read on hear that exposing get them out of a fog???? Not in this case. The exposure just turned his anger towards me and brought him and his mistress closer. 

Also he never once even admitted to stopping the affair. He says they are not physical ( lie ) but they do speak cause there is no crime to that.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The thing is, you are also dealing with a narcissist. So you're never going to win. You can't. The fog they speak of is talking about the fantasy bubble cheaters live in where they pretend they can keep cheating and no one will know and no one will get hurt; shine a light on the sliminess of the affair, and it's no longer as fun as it once was. So, yes, I'd say his fog has cleared. But that doesn't turn him into a nice man; he's still the same self-centered, self-serving jerk he always was. You just never saw it because, at the time, you were providing him what he wanted so he was nice to you. Once you fail to fill that role for him, well, you know what you get.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

One of the many great things about writting your feelings down and is that you're able to get it out and off your chest. One of the great things about writting here on TAM is that your able to go back to your thoughts and all the advice given. These "cheaters / liars " are masters at their craft. You need to constantly remind yourself of what they said when cause from day to day they will change on you, fool you, and make you think your crazy. 

I read through my thread last night and got back to reality. So after all the insulting text about how he doesnt give a F I learned of the affair, etc etc etc...............I get home and he's made dinner for everyone and was complimenting and humble. 

I know its all part of the same game but I quickly read through my thread here and stayed in my reality. Sometimes your heart is so wounded it wants to believe the lies your being told just so you can breath.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

Hi Stuck.
I too stopped posting on Rosies thread.

In fact I hardly post at all now. 

The normal affair dynamics do not apply in your case I am afraid you are a sub category  
Your thread title alerted me and the other posters on this thread that something is foul in the state of Denmark. 

The main person you are fighting right now is yourself and the last thing you need is to be beaten with the standard TAM 4 x2 wake up stick
You already have woken up.
It is what you have woken up to that is the problem! 

Can I just say that I think you are doing really well. 

You are his mirror, he has used you to gain a view of himself that is good. Now he is still seeing you as a mirror but no longer seeing his shiny self. The more he attacks you the more your view changes and his reflection is tarnished and dirty.
This causes him to recoil for a little, and then he tries again. Each time causing you pain. Sometimes unbearable pain because each attack hits your very core of who you thought you were and who you thought he was. 

One of the things that we have not mentioned is that this can go on for years, even after separation and Divorce. 

They simply refuse to believe that it is over and even if it is that they were at all to blame. I am deeply sorry but none of what has happened even slightly surprised me. There will be more to come. 
You will get sucked in again, you will lash out at the injustice and stupidity and you will collapse in grief and pain on a regular basis. 

Your emotions and feelings are anchored deep in your heart, the anchors are being ripped out of you every minute of the day. The pain is unbearable. 
Does that about cover the pain side?

It is okay to look after yourself now. 
You are allowed to be selfish, for whatever level of selfishness you think you are is nothing to what you have been living with.

Exposure makes them furious. Maybe he will come out of the fog. Probably not though. They will cuddle up as an "Us against the world" trying desperately to convince the world of "their reality" because they are mirroring for each other. This may go on for years, hell some of them manage a lifetime of it. 

Another line my counselor gave me.

"ing. that is only ExW's opinion." 

This next bit is for illustrative purposes only!

"_Stuck .this is all your fault and you should immediately take back your loving husband How dare you be annoyed at him. You caused him to behave like this._"

How much power did that have? Not much I would guess. It is complete rubbish of course, but my point is, that you can remove power from him by filtering his words though the "stranger filter" 

I will sign off or now since I am about to have some time to myself in the garden with a book. Peace.. It can not be underestimated in its grandeur


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

ing said:


> Hi Stuck.
> I too stopped posting on Rosies thread.
> 
> In fact I hardly post at all now.
> ...


wow ing.......what can I say other then wow. I have woken up to a totaly nightmare. That is certain. 

Interesting on your mirror comment is that it makes so much sense to what transpires from time to time in my interation with him. You are so right, he hates the reflection he sees of himself in my eyes. That makes so much sense. He often goes back and forth devil / mouse / victim / devil / mouse / victim trying to change that view. Its HARD not to fall victim to these ever changing people he turns into. When he doesnt get what he wants from me he attacks again and YES IT IS UNBEARABLE PAIN! 

I do fear the long term effects of this because I see him doing this to his ex wife. They fight about different things but they do fight and he will revert back to the characters I stated above with her as well. That is also part of my depression in my circumstances. I think there is an awarness that this will never truly be "over". Having you point that out is scary because I like to shrug that off as me being paranoid but deep inside I know Im right and now you've pointed it out here and you dont even know us. 

I DO need to find and almost think I have found some small small sense of strength in removing the power from his words. He has become a stranger but the wonds he left behind in me are deadly. My feelings anchored deep in my heart and are being ripped out of me every minute is probably as accurate as I can make it. 

I finally go to see my the counselor alone next week. I look forward. Yesterday I went to counseling with him and just as the night before he was saying he didint give a F* about me..........he CRIED during the session. He creid at the thought of the kids and their reaction to our situation. He cried cause he knows his daughter would be most affected and hurt. He said he wants to be civil with me and creat some peace in the home. She asked him what he thinks that would take.........he said, honesty and do the right thing by his family. To me it sounded like he's desperatly trying to save himself from having to put his daughter thorugh another seperation and his is much more aware then he realizes that I am in control of that. He knows that I am the one that creates that stability for her and if I leave, she will be not handle it well. She suffers from anxiety and any change in her life whatsover sends her into another attack. Us breaking up only opens up the wound she felt when her parents broke up . He knows this and although he's a selfish SOB I know he loves that littlel girl. Its hard to watch all of this and pack it up and walk away one day to the next. He knows at any point in time I can say, I've had enough, I have money saved, Im out of here. While I hate him so much I do have a heart that knows that through his stupidity he needs me around if not for any other reason but to keep it together for her. 

His tears and his fear are even more of the reason of why I will not ever forgive him for doing this to our family. When he was going in and out of hotel rooms and emailing and texting and having dinners and buying gifts he never once that of the consequences to his own children? Now he's crying? Now he's bascially begging me to help him with out saying it. He'll instead say he wants to be honest and have peace. That translates to I need this woman because my daughter needs her. 

Its always about him. Even now.........


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Can't change stripes.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

turnera said:


> Can't change stripes.


I agree and I know this plea, the tears, and whatever else he throws my way is not about me nor do I beleive him. Im aware this still about *him* and how it benefits *him* and how *his* daughter will be better off so that *he *doesnt have to face her .


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

Is he pulling the "I told you the truth" card yet.
Because when you found about the affair he then "told you the truth" about it and attempted to make it, and still does, a marital problem.

He tells you to Fck offf in private then in counseling he cries with regret and remorse.. Mmm sounds familiar..

The only way to deal with this rubbish is to go black and white.
Have you or have you not ended all contact with your girlfriend? The answer is yes or no.
Yes. Prove it
No. crickets
He will HATE this and will then start lying about ending it. In some ways this makes it easier. You aren't there yet though. 

Your aim is silence.

You need to discontinue MC with him _for any reason_ until the affair is over. This needs to be stated in the opening statement of MC, clearly in front of the counselor on last time. 
Basically you ambush him. he knows nothing of this until your actually in the session.

This will shift the focus to the here and now. 
Make is very clear that you will not be attending any further counselling while he is in contact in any way with this woman. 

Let the counselor handle further questions.


He also knows he is incapable of giving his daughter emotional support, as does his exW! 
He will do anything to keep you in the middle as a punching bag and the person who manages that side of things. 
The brutal truth is that you can do nothing to save the relationship between father and daughter. Nothing at all. 

*You MUST remove yourself from that.*

In your own counseling deal only with the things that you can influence and control. 

Let the counselor make practical suggestions on how to deal with him. A good one will see the patterns but this will take time. They will also ask you your family history. They have years of training that will help you figure this out for yourself 

Many of us weirdos who put "family" and the "us" high on the list of "happiness indicators" lost something our families for some reason in childhood and therefore can empathize deeply with the children, seeing clearly see the damage and pain far into the future that is being done.

All I am doing here is putting many months of picking apart the reasons for the PTSD this caused. I was a wreck. My daughter is also. we are recovering together. We make jokes about being certifiable now

Start refereeing to him as " The Children s Father" the power of words works both ways you know.


And a line from Gran Turino.. Your a tough cookie and your gonna be stronger.

_"Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have fcuked with? That's me"_


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

ing said:


> Is he pulling the "I told you the truth" card yet.
> Because when you found about the affair he then "told you the truth" about it and attempted to make it, and still does, a marital problem.
> 
> *Yes he has pulled that card! Yes he makes it a marital problem. He also says that he never intended for the kids to find out and had they not found out they wouldnt be so affected. The therapist said, "but you brought that realtionship to them just by brining it into your relationship with your wife. " He said, "My kids would have never known" He said, he never intended to leave ( LIE ) and had it not been for me seeing the emails everything would have been fine. CAKE ANYONE???????? *
> ...


Thank you for all of this again. Just FYI.......he's back to being a mouse. Even a smaller one this time. Very very small. Very humble. Very communicative, much laughter, jokes, and "innocent" like conversations and questions. 

If it werent for TAM..........I'd certainly be insane. Thats for sure!


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Question for you, Question for all............

Should I tell my therapist about this thread I have on TAM and ask her to read it? I know we talk every week but I've said a lot here. Is that a good idea or not?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

stuck on hold said:


> Question for you, Question for all............
> 
> Should I tell my therapist about this thread I have on TAM and ask her to read it? I know we talk every week but I've said a lot here. Is that a good idea or not?


I wouldnt. Maybe take some notes on things that YOU have said.

I am curious, WHY are you in MC with this man in the first place?? Surely you are not thinking about trying to work it out with him....


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

3Xnocharm said:


> I wouldnt. Maybe take some notes on things that YOU have said.
> 
> I am curious, WHY are you in MC with this man in the first place?? Surely you are not thinking about trying to work it out with him....


I agree, I think the MC is a total waste of money - it would be better spent on IC for you and the kids...

He is never going to change. I feel he uses MC to try to persuade you to stay in the relationship....

And if you know you are completely done and going to leave eventually when you can, why continue to waste the money.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Agree he's never going to change. Agree again, he uses MC to try to persuade me into staying. After going to visit her she suggested / asked that he attended because she feels she / we would have a lot more questions then answers with him not there. I think she wanted to get his thoughts on things ? I dont know but I went in there becasue I was so paranoid about my kids , about all the kids and at home we just kept fighting and going around in circles. So to decide on best route for the kids she says its better that he's there and HE says that I manipulate his words so with her around we can make better choices for the kids. 

Its not to fix our reltionship. My thing is surving through this till I no longer have to. Its getting around all the different things he throws my way. I will be back to going on my own next week. I think she's got a good grasp on what she needed to see.

I do not trust him even with a bag of beans. Nothing. I think he thinks I do but I do not!


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

vi_bride04 said:


> I agree, I think the MC is a total waste of money - it would be better spent on IC for you and the kids...
> 
> _
> He is never going to change. I feel he uses MC to try to persuade you to stay in the relationship...._
> ...


*I dont pay a dime for therapy . He and my insurance pay for it. *


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I would send her a link to it.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

stuck on hold said:


> Thank you for all of this again. Just FYI.......he's back to being a mouse. Even a smaller one this time. Very very small. Very humble. Very communicative, much laughter, jokes, and "innocent" like conversations and questions.
> 
> If it werent for TAM..........I'd certainly be insane. Thats for sure!


I wouldn't tell the therapist. I am giving you advice it is just that. Advice based on my experience. It comes to you at its true value. zip. I only say this because we only see one side of the story here. We are absolutely on your side. While this feels good it is also a bit like having a posse behind you!

He does seem to be ticking all the boxes though..

Your comment on "the mouse" is perhaps one of the most perplexing and hurtful. It gives you hope that your family will be okay, if even for a moment and then you have to pull yourself up. That hurts. It still hurts when i see it in my exW. The only way I could rationalize it is that they believe it at the time. I still strive to understand it. 
There seemed to be a loose cycle which I still don't understand but at least recognize to some extent. 


Entitlement and happiness 
Demand that you accept this and endorse it.
Anger that you won't accept it, endorse or approve it.
Acknowledgement of you and your value for not approving of it.
Sorrow and grief
Mouse stage (thankyou)

These seemed to accelerate as it became obvious that I would not accept, endorse or approve of her behavior. 
In fact I will add another one. 

Accusation of oppression of rights

I tried a few different techniques to deal with all that.
Agree with them. About everything.but continue to separate privately.
This was somewhat successful for a while. It bought me some time to recover. She lived in full happiness, entitlement mode for quite some time while I quietly, very quietly, got on with building a new life. 
She would try to get me into the cycle but I simply dropped out of it with agreement and approval.
Oh didn't I feel clever Then eventually she got what I was doing and used the kids to pull me in. The whole cycle started again.
After another 3 months with my synapse mechanic I stepped out of the dynamic between Mother and daughter. This was the hardest thing I have ever done.. The psyche said. 
"Why is that a problem ing?" 
Good question!

It was the best thing I could ever have done for my daughter.

So , more rambling from an Internet stranger


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

ing said:


> I wouldn't tell the therapist. I am giving you advice it is just that. Advice based on my experience. It comes to you at its true value. zip. I only say this because we only see one side of the story here. We are absolutely on your side. While this feels good it is also a bit like having a posse behind you!
> 
> He does seem to be ticking all the boxes though..
> 
> ...


Dear Internet Stranger.........I appreciate all of your input. You are so spot on with all of the explanations of what goes on that I wonder if you are a Psychic or are these cheaters all that much alike????? My godness is both comforting and scary to have such a script followed by all?


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Finally got some alone time with my therapist. First of all, not sure who here on TAM is an expert due to life experience or an expert by trade and this is what they do for a living. Regardless, everyone here is as accurate on their assessment of things as can be. 

She believes my stbx has a personality disorder and called him out as a typical Narcissist. ( shocking ) . This is why its so easy for him to “rug sweep”. She says I have carried the guilt I felt with my kids from my first marriage right into my second marriage and that has me "stuck". She says I was abused in my first marriage and while not physical, I’m also being abused in this marriage. I’m NEVER going to get a resolution to dealing with him because of his disorder. He grew up like this and I nor any other woman is going to be able to change that . EVEN this mistress he seems to be in love with. I have his child so I will to some extent forever have to deal with it at some level. 

She feels I have complete lost myself in this equation and I need to worry about me cause it seems everyone in my home is taken care of by me EVEN my stbx. She asked what my biggest fear was and I told her it was to become that single mother again and have to supply my son with the emotional needs of two parents being just one. She says I have to decide what is worse, being alone and doing that or being with my stbx and doing that because either way I’m supplying all the emotional needs for my son and everyone else in the home regardless. 
At one point I started to cry because she asked me if it weren’t for my son would I leave, I said absolutely 100% yes. Then I started to cry because I told her that I actually felt sorry for my stbx. As you can imagine she looked at me like I was insane. She said, I feel sorry for you!!!! I feel sorry that while you were pregnant with his child he was cheating on you and you are sitting there telling me you feel sorry for him??!!! 

This guilt I carry from my first marriage and my kids and that fear that came after the divorce is more of what has me in Limbo than anything else. She wants to work on that with me. 

THIS SUCKS..................


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Yes, but it helps and it's important. Learning to love yourself is VITAL for you to be able to be a good, healthy parent for your kids.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

turnera said:


> Yes, but it helps and it's important. Learning to love yourself is VITAL for you to be able to be a good, healthy parent for your kids.


Yes , the more I talk the more I become aware that as happy as I claim to be I am very hard on myself and while I forgive my ex for his abuse, forgive my stbx for his abuse, I DO NOT forgive myself AT ALL. Many of the things I allow to happen to me today are because I feel I owe it to my kids to take the pain on for them so they dont have to. Over and Over again. 

It was a strange session because when I came home i was alone with my two kids and i felt just a little bit of weight off of me. Just a tiny bit but I did feel it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Good!

What kind of pain are you talking about taking on for your kids?


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

turnera said:


> Good!
> 
> What kind of pain are you talking about taking on for your kids?


 Their heart break, their disappointment, their hopes, their sadness, their void. I hated seeing my kids always wishing for a stable home and family. I hated seeing the look on their face when we moved. I hated having to answer to their sadness when I was a single mom. Now that I messed up and gave them that hope again and 5 years into it………I don’t want to see that again in them and now in my son as well. So instead of holding him accountable for what he’s done to this family I take on the burden of everyone’s pain and try to fix it. 

The reason my stbx doesn’t respect me is because I don’t respect the position I hold in this relationship. When I discovered the affair I immediately went into protection mode and kept everything in the house moving as usual ( as best I could ) and even told my stbx not to let his daughters now anything because they have been through enough. I even went as far to tell him to just blame it all on me so they don’t hate him. So I go around picking up everyone else’s responsibility and then get hurt and shock when they sh*t on me. 

She says, until I learn to take the burden off of my shoulders and realize that I cannot and will not be able to keep him in check and come to terms that if the kids do hurt , it’s not my fault nor is it in my control………..I will never get the respect I deserve from him or anyone. I can’t be responsible for the bad behavior of others and expect them to thank me with their loyalty for that.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

We teach people how to treat us, yep. I'm glad you're working on that. Your kids will benefit, too.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

turnera said:


> We teach people how to treat us, yep. I'm glad you're working on that. Your kids will benefit, too.


Thank you. I’m glad too. I've been divorced for over 10 years and I never ever thought I had baggage of any kind from that relationship. We do treat people how to treat us because my ex-husband was an emotionally connected to my feelings as my current husband. The rejection and lack of concern for me was exactly the same.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

It is great you are seeing someone! One of the hardest things we have to face is that we allowed this to happen and there is huge guilt which goes with that. I felt like a complete scumbag after hitting the "emergency stop button" on finding out she was about to cheat. 
She never expected me to do anything. She expected me to agree to her little fling. 

I knew I needed help and luckily found TAM. 

I listened to the advice of the Internet strangers, taking what I needed, implementing it with merciless speed. The affair was just the straw that broke the camels back though, and within 22 days a 25 year relationship was over.


As far as the kids go. I too felt the extreme pain of loss of family.

I too thought that I could not offer the emotional support for my kids and that I had ruined their chances at a better life. 

The thing is though, you already are doing it all! 
It has become very clear with the separation that my family and my home is just that. Home. 

It is where they let out that "ahhhh" as they kick off their shoes. I am the person who hears about the boyfriends, the school problems. Cleans up after little "gatherings" 

I am the person they see as stable and predictable, even though I am honest about my own failing and limitations.

Your therapist a 100% right about the guilt. It is a heavy weight that you have become used to. Time to throw it off!

One day not so far from now you will let it all go, and, oh my goodness, you will smile a smile that you had almost forgotten. Laugh a laugh that comes from deep inside then for no reason dance in your kitchen Your son will see it. He will look confused as he sees a light in your eyes and you will dance a together to some terrible music. Laughing, There is your family. The one you both deserve. 
There is loss. 50/50 parenting sucks, but give it time, be yourself and you might be surprised what happens.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Thank you Ing.... You can't imagine ( wait yes you do) how desperate I am for my emotional freedom both from my bast and my miserable present. I'm struggling and "stuck" right now cause of the guilt I carry and this situation just made it worse. I know as I work through this I will open my eyes and realize how clear all of the advice here is. I can't wait. 

By the way the mouse left and he's back to his normal self. Got into a huge fight. Really it started with him and his daughters and they vented to me and I told him how miserable he makes everyone. What a selfish SOB he is. Etc etc He said that the fight with his daughters stem from something my daughter did. So now his behavior is blamed on my 13 year old. Also his ex wife, on me and also his ex wife. He said if it's him that makes everyone so miserable he's just going to move out. From his mouth to Gods Ears!!!! Please go!!!!!!!! 

His own daughters detailed how frustration it is to stress your point to him. How he doesn't listen and how he likes to blame THEM for what he does. It's was such an embarrassing feeling inside. To have these three little girls tell me exactly how they feel and it be exactly how I feel as an adult. Going to counseling is a joke if it's about the children because he's making them feel exactly how he makes me feel! He just doesn't want HIS reputation ruined out there. He doesn't want to have to admit to his ex wife and his daughters how he F* up AGAIN. 

He won't even listen that his own daughters feel like he's impossible and rude and mean. ( their words)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

stuck on hold said:


> He won't even listen that his own daughters feel like he's impossible and rude and mean. ( their words)


Stbxh's response to our son.....a sarcastic "Whatever" and then the eye roll. 

Remember that they can't differentiate people. Children or adults, it doesn't matter. Their own children? A target too. These are the very people who can walk away from their own children and never look back. Why should their kids be heard or understood? Anyone who calls them on their sh!t will get the same response.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

*Re: Re: Living with a Narcissist till your not*



SaltInWound said:


> Stbxh's response to our son.....a sarcastic "Whatever" and then the eye roll.
> 
> Remember that they can't differentiate people. Children or adults, it doesn't matter. Their own children? A target too. These are the very people who can walk away from their own children and never look back. Why should their kids be heard or understood? Anyone who calls them on their sh!t will get the same response.


This is the characteristic I hate the most. They portray themselves as the "best" at everything, even being the best parent, so proud of their kids. Keeping up with the "what a great person I am" image....if they were so great they wouldn't abandon something they helped create and bring into this world. If that doesn't show the depth of their selfishness, I don't know what does.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

vi_bride04 said:


> This is the characteristic I hate the most. They portray themselves as the "best" at everything, even being the best parent, so proud of their kids. Keeping up with the "what a great person I am" image....if they were so great they wouldn't abandon something they helped create and bring into this world. If that doesn't show the depth of their selfishness, I don't know what does.


So true. Since his kids are only hear every other weekend he is the best dad ever especially when it's not his weekend. He's the best protector the best dad the best person to rely on. It's the same at the counselor.... He cried last time we were there just at the mention of his daughter. Same kids he was ready to re introduce to his mistress. Sadly he will do the same to my son so although my biggest nightmare.....I'll have to prepare myself since it's inevitable he will be the same a** of a father. 

Someone on here told me to pretend anything that comes out of his mouth was just as if the mail man said it. Well I repeated that about 1000x tonight. He came through the door singing loudly and his mood was as if he'd won the lotto. Skipping , singing, dancing. Just yesterday his daughters were so upset with him and today he's on top of the world. The amount of hatred and disgust building inside of me is unbearable. I just kept saying he's just a mail man over and over. IT HELPED!!!!!!!!!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

stuck on hold said:


> He's the best protector the best dad the best person to rely on. It's the same at the counselor.... *He cried last time we were there just at the mention of his daughter*.


Oh, he's good. Please tell us the counselor gave him a tissue and gave you a


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Just start saying 'manipulation' when he does that and walk away.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

stuck on hold said:


> . I just kept saying he's just a mail man over and over. IT HELPED!!!!!!!!!!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is advice I got from AffairCare. It is the one of the most important pieces of advice I have gotten from TAM...EVER. This thought is what was able to help me detach from my ex and quit falling for his stupid manipulation tactics. It helped me get above the situation and see things for what they really were. 

Don't get me wrong, it took so much practice. And I still have to remind myself when the freak occurrence comes up that I have to deal with him. "He's just the mail man"

I mean would you really care if the mail man was in a great mood like your H was yesterday? No, you would smile and just go about your day without another thought about him. 

Keep up the good work. It is hard, it is frustrating, but you are learning and changing your reactions to him. Thats all you can do until you can get what you need to get done to leave him.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

It's amazing how as much as it HURTS you give it a little time that same hurt helps you see what you refuse to see for yourself. I mean how much can you look the other way? So while I hate it and cry and complain I do realize that he leaves me no room to make excuses in my head. 

Just to let everyone know that today I attended a funeral for my cousins only daughter. She was killed in a motorcycle accident. She was 21 years old. Her mother, my cousin was beyond repair sitting there staring into the air asking God for strength. If that is not an image to put things into prospective I don't know what is. 

I'd like to mention that she and the father were separated. The fathers new girlfriend often voiced how much she "hated" the girl. The mother demanded the other woman NOT attended. Why would she want to be there at her death when in life she hated her? The father said..." Well if my girlfriend can't go then I won't go either!". 
In the end good prevailed ..... The father attended minus the girlfriend. 
I will never for the life of me get over how some people are so mentally manipulated by another human being even when it's about their own child??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Hello everyone, just FYI, I've failed miserably at the "do not engage" thing. I can do it perfectly then I just CANT. In the latest fight or interaction ( same things these days ) he said to me.......
It doesnt make a difference in how I feel about you if I talk to her (his mistress ) or not so what does it matter if I do? Im not in love with you so not talking to her is not going to change that. Im not doing anything wrong. 


I found a text from her early Sunday morning and he said all she was doing was saying hello and it was just a responce to a text he sent her weeks ago asking her how she was doing. There is nothing wrong with the text or its context he says. 

Last week he said, "maybe we can work on our friendship and possibily get our reltionship back" then yesterday he said, "what ever happened to just being here to raise our kids?" One day he'll say, I want to raise our son with both mother and father at home then yesterday he said, "I dont know how long Im going to be here, I dont know what Im gonna do". I use to freak out at the thought of him leaving now when he says it my heart skips a beat. 

Please be advised to all that this morning he said he is sorry for saying all of that stuff and he does care about me and he is sorry for everything he's done to me. 

There is a reason why this man has been in therapy for 8 years with no change. 

and yes, I asked him to leave. He says he will but then he doesnt. When I tell him to leave thats when the mouse comes out. 

Go ahead everyone, give it to me. I engaged I responded and this is what I got. I hate my life.........There is so much more to detail but its more of the same different day. So much more hurtfull stuff and back and forth stuff. Its sickening to repeat. Sometimes honestly I cant even remember it all its so much.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I am not going to chastise you, its near impossible to NOT engage completely while you live in the same house with someone. Your husband is a real ass. Where are you with getting separation filed? You have GOT to get that "man" out of your house. He is proving over and over what a piece of sh!t he is by staying there.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Next time you find yourself engaging, can you try to physically remove yourself? Go to another room, if he follows shut the door and if that doesn't work just leave the house and drive around the block a few times? 

We all have slip ups...your WH has learned what it takes to get you to engage again...somehow in one of your conversations he learned what it takes to ruffle your feathers after being able to disengage...

Just please keep trying. You have to get away from this man for your own well being.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Well, you're going to keep engaging until...you're done.

You'll know when you're done. 

And then it won't matter what he says any more.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

The way your husband is.. staying with for whatever reason (finences, the kids, fear, you name it) is mutualy exclusive with staying sane. It's what it is.
Making the hard choice of divorce or accept the soul draining experience of living with this complete monster. No grey areas.

I'm sorry friend, life got you a bad hand. You must decide. ASAP.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

*Re: Re: Living with a Narcissist till your not*



turnera said:


> Well, you're going to keep engaging until...you're done.
> 
> You'll know when you're done.
> 
> And then it won't matter what he says any more.


This...

Once you really don't care, it will seem effortless to not engage.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

vi_bride04 said:


> Once you really don't care, it will seem effortless to not engage.


I think that point comes when you give up on hope that he will change.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

Hi Stuck.
This all sounds terribly familiar.
The thing that hurts is that this man you married and says he loved you. 
He deliberately makes it impossible for your relationship to repair.
He says things he knows will hurt you. 
He manipulates you to feel his problems.

I am sorry but this is the first time I have ever given this advice.

Leave with your child.

Contact friends, family. Pull any strings you have.

He is in a position where to leave he would have to take his kids from his previous marriage as well from the house they are in and leave you with a large house. This is bad.

If you stay he will continue this until you really do go insane.

I will say this again. You can not put yourself between him and his kids. They have a Mother. She will pick up. It is her job. You are being used by everyone as the punching bag. This will stop once you are out.

Your job is to look after your baby. Do not announce that you will be leaving until you are ready. Only when you are ready do you make the move.

If you can not go, refuse to go, go and see your Doctor and get some anti-depressants. This will take all the sting out of his words until you actually have detached. An eight week course will probably do. It is my greatest regret that I stopped the anti-depressants. i would have handled it all much better.

and remember.
whatever he says is ONLY HIS OPINION.


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## indiecat (Sep 24, 2012)

See the lawyer and find out if you can have him removed from the house. If H is a lawyer he will have to pay you a good amount of support. Don't be fooled by his words, he will pretend to take blame just to throw you off.
You will lose your sanity if you don't make a plan to get him out, or leave yourself. Don't wait until you are so depressed that you can't think or function. It can happen. You think you are in trouble now, well if you don't make a change asap you might end up in the pysch. ward, THEN he can get your son full time.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> I am not going to chastise you, its near impossible to NOT engage completely while you live in the same house with someone. Your husband is a real ass. Where are you with getting separation filed? You have GOT to get that "man" out of your house. *He is proving over and over what a piece of sh!t he is by staying there.*




Thats what I say all of the time. To him, to my friends that know, to myself, to my therapist. The fact that he does what he does and then turns around and says, "Im not leaving" "lets just raise the kids" is actully worse because he doesnt even respect me enough or care enough about what he's done to me to leave????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

vi_bride04 said:


> We all have slip ups...your WH has learned what it takes to get you to engage again...somehow in one of your conversations he learned what it takes to ruffle your feathers after being able to disengage...
> 
> Just please keep trying. You have to get away from this man for your own well being.


Not only does he know what to say to ruffle my feathers he knows exactly what NOT to say . He will sit there and shrug his shoulders or roll his eyes or nod his head in agreement when Im telling him everything I think as if we are talking about someone else and not him!


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

*


turnera said:



Well, you're going to keep engaging until...you're done.

You'll know when you're done. 

And then it won't matter what he says any more.

Click to expand...

*I prayed for this exacty feeling last night. I HATE myself for not getting my head out of my rear and insisting on HAVING to say something. I PRAY like you have no idea for this day . I just dont want to care. Its not like he's going to change. I just hate myself and I hate the person he's turned me into. I feel exactly like the fool he's made me out to be


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Acabado said:


> The way your husband is.. staying with for whatever reason (finences, the kids, fear, you name it) is mutualy exclusive with staying sane. It's what it is.
> Making the hard choice of divorce or accept the soul draining experience of living with this complete monster. No grey areas.
> 
> I'm sorry friend, life got you a bad hand. You must decide. ASAP.


Its true, I either accept the death sentence or I leave. THere is no grey area at all. He will say, "listen, I've been good for the past 3 weeks". I havent done anything to the family for weeks. 

I almost have to laugh as Im writting this because I imagine you are laughing while reading it...........


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

vi_bride04 said:


> this...
> 
> Once you really don't care, it will seem effortless to not engage.


please lord..........please help me to get to this point.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

SaltInWound said:


> I think that point comes when you give up on hope that he will change.


I am feeling very much like this and strange enough, its brought me some painfull relief if that makes sense.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

ing said:


> Hi Stuck.
> This all sounds terribly familiar.
> The thing that hurts is that this man you married and says he loved you.
> He deliberately makes it impossible for your relationship to repair.
> ...


Yes he has mad his problems and his feelings my problem. He certainly has. He makes me insane and this is the same man that said he loved me. I dream of the day when I done care, make my exit plan and just hit him with my absense. Well not my absense because he doesnt care but the absense of his son. I cant wait for the day when Im writting out my exit plans instead of crying about how much his words hurt me.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

indiecat said:


> See the lawyer and find out if you can have him removed from the house. *If H is a lawyer he will have to pay you a good amount of support.* Don't be fooled by his words, he will pretend to take blame just to throw you off.
> You will lose your sanity if you don't make a plan to get him out, or leave yourself. Don't wait until you are so depressed that you can't think or function. It can happen. You think you are in trouble now, well if you don't make a change asap you might end up in the pysch. ward, THEN he can get your son full time.


Interesting you say that............when I told him ( in a very calm voice , no cursing, no screaming, no yelling ) ..........when I told him he will have to continue paying the bills when he's out of the house as he does now he paused a little. He supports his ex wife and her huge mortgage 110%. The woman doesnt even work. When I reminded him that he will have to take out a pen and paper and figure out how he will support TWO homes 110% he just looked like a deer caught in headlights. THEN is when he pretended to take blame and say he was sorry. Since the day this happened he has NEVER said he does care about me and he didint mean this or that. It was only after I made him aware of his finances that he took a different route..........


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

The man is fvcking another woman and throwing it in your face. You really have no other choice than to end this. He does not give two damns about you or the marriage. Look at it this way...what would you tell your best friend to do in this situation? If she came to you and told you that her husband was cheating, and treating her the way that your WH is treating you....what would you say to her? How would it make you feel? You dont have to be "done" to get out of this, you can do it because it is the right thing, the healthy thing to do for yourself and for your son.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Is there such a thing as TMI on TAM? If so, Im taking my chances here cause I dont want to mention this to family.....

Got my results back from my GYN......All test are not back yet but blood work shows positive for Herpes Type 1 and Type 2. 

For stupid reasons, for pride reasons, for idiot reasons, I did not admit to her when I went for the test why I wanted so many test done but as smart as she is and as many years as she's been doing it she knew. Of course I did come out and tell her today as she told me my results and will call me next week on the others........................

Yes I have to leave, yes I have to save my sanity and my son, yes he's an A** if there ever was one but right now at this moment at 1:43pm on 11/26 Im just bursting in tears . NOT that I needed "proof" not that I didint think he wasnt doing anything but really...........can I be on the recieving end of any more things done to me by the man I trusted and married..........omg..............


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

stuck on hold said:


> Is there such a thing as TMI on TAM? If so, Im taking my chances here cause I dont want to mention this to family.....
> 
> Got my results back from my GYN......All test are not back yet but blood work shows positive for Herpes Type 1 and Type 2.
> 
> ...


Oh honey. I am SO SORRY!  Sending you a virtual >>HUG<<!!!


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

If you tell him the results don't be surprised if he says you got it somewhere else and not from him 

I'm so sorry of your results. Not only is this man damaging your mental health, but your physical health as well.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

stuck on hold said:


> Yes I have to leave, yes I have to save my sanity and my son, yes he's an A** if there ever was one but right now at this moment at 1:43pm on 11/26 Im just bursting in tears . NOT that I needed "proof" not that I didint think he wasnt doing anything but really...........can I be on the recieving end of any more things done to me by the man I trusted and married..........omg..............


When you were born, did your parents say 'oh, I hope she has to put up with so much **** that she can't bear it when she marries'?

No, they said, she will be wonderful, she will be happy, she'll be the love of someone's life.

Don't waste that dream. Do what's right.


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## indiecat (Sep 24, 2012)

Herpes, sorry. Leave before Hepatitis and HIV come into it. He had unprotected sex with OW and then slept with you. Enough said, kick his ass to the curb and get your pride back.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Hello everyone.... Had to take a step out to read, pray, reflect, and make a plan. 
As I've mentioned before my STBX has been seeing a psychiatrist for 8 years. After almost 6 years and a child later for the first time I saw the official diagnosis from his doctor.. This year he was out in my health plan and so I had to submit his claim etc etc. So anyway, I read the doctors letter / invoice to the insurance and his official diagnosis is 
"Major Depression Disorder -Recurrent". 
Has anyone dealt with this ? 

I looked it up on Wikipedia and lots of information came up. Just wondering if anyone has some personal insight on this. 
Major depressive disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## motherofone (Jan 10, 2013)

That is how Psychiatrists code so that the patient still receives services without getting an N label back to the patient. It is a protection for both the psychiatrist and the patient if they are an N.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

motherofone said:


> That is how Psychiatrists code so that the patient still receives services without getting an N label back to the patient. It is a protection for both the psychiatrist and the patient if they are an N.


People with BPD like narcissism also tend to have a secondary problem like depression. Treating the depression will NOT cure narcissism.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

stuck on hold said:


> Hello everyone.... Had to take a step out to read, pray, reflect, and make a plan.
> As I've mentioned before my STBX has been seeing a psychiatrist for 8 years. After almost 6 years and a child later for the first time I saw the official diagnosis from his doctor.. This year he was out in my health plan and so I had to submit his claim etc etc. So anyway, I read the doctors letter / invoice to the insurance and his official diagnosis is
> "Major Depression Disorder -Recurrent".
> Has anyone dealt with this ?
> ...


Are you looking for a miracle that is not going to happen? I have personal experience with this. My stbxh is a narcissist and has depression. Anyone who is around him a lot sees signs of depression in him. He went on antidepressants to stop smoking and son and I noticed a change in him....but the narcissism was still very visible. There is no magic pill for narcissism.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I have it and I've never intentionally hurt anyone. That is just part of who he is, stuck.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

SaltInWound said:


> Are you looking for a miracle that is not going to happen? I have personal experience with this. My stbxh is a narcissist and has depression. Anyone who is around him a lot sees signs of depression in him. He went on antidepressants to stop smoking and son and I noticed a change in him....but the narcissism was still very visible. There is no magic pill for narcissism.



Im glad you asked this question. This morning I thought some of you might think Im looking for a reason or an "out" or an "excuse" for his behavior. 100% not. I may be "stuck" right now but Im not stupid. There is NOTHING that excuses what he's done, or doing. There is a lot of issues going on here. He's a N and sufferes from major depression. 

I actually just wanted to hear some opinions on the diagnosis. I also fear that his depression in genetic and may have passed it along to my son. I mean , his daughter is already seeing a doctor at 13.
If thats the case I know only prayer will help me help my son but its reason # 999999999 to get the hell away. 

Im the worst kind of person to know this information and to be honest without the advice on TAM, I probably would have written this off to ........"ahhhhhh ha! This is why we are in the situation we are in!" 

HUGE SIGH...................


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

turnera said:


> I have it and I've never intentionally hurt anyone. That is just part of who he is, stuck.


Tunera, aside from my own issues, Im so sorry to hear you have this. I read a lot about it and while Im happy you've never hurt anyone intentionally, Im so sorry you suffer from this. It sounds like such a heavy weight to carry around. 

Truly sorry you have this.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Wow, thanks. No one's ever said that before.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

turnera said:


> Wow, thanks. No one's ever said that before.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

stuck on hold said:


> I actually just wanted to hear some opinions on the diagnosis. I also fear that his depression in genetic and may have passed it along to my son. I mean , his daughter is already seeing a doctor at 13.


It is also possible that your son and his daughter's problems are a result of being exposed to their father's behavior.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

SaltInWound said:


> It is also possible that your son and his daughter's problems are a result of being exposed to their father's behavior.


The scary thing is that I'll have to deal with his behavior and his decisions on some level regardless. He DOES NOT think there is anything wrong with what he does at all so my son, his daughter will always be exposed to a certain degree. I can't continue to try and control that unless he just leaves and doesn't try to stay in his life.

He said if contacting her is what "gets his jollys off, then what's the big deal" 

That's the father of my son saying that! 

He said he's moving out. Please cross your fingers along with me that it's tomorrow! Maybe then I'll be able to sleep and not be up at 4:00am writing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

HEEEEEEE'S MOOOOOOOOVING!!!!!!!!

Maybe before the holidays!!!!!!!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

*Re: Re: Living with a Narcissist till your not*



stuck on hold said:


> HEEEEEEE'S MOOOOOOOOVING!!!!!!!!
> 
> Maybe before the holidays!!!!!!!!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Now this is a GREAT!!!!!!!!!!! UPDATE!!!!!!!!!


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

vi_bride04 said:


> Now this is a GREAT!!!!!!!!!!! UPDATE!!!!!!!!!


YES!!!

We had fight number I lost count and he still manages to shock me with the things he said but who the he*l cares. He's moving!!!!!!

I just can't refrain from saying one of the insane things he said during the argument.

"I was happy when I was seeing her and actually my relationship with you benefited from my affair because I was happy with her so I was happier at home"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

stuck on hold said:


> YES!!!
> 
> We had fight number I lost count and he still manages to shock me with the things he said but who the he*l cares. He's moving!!!!!!
> 
> ...


:rofl: :lol:

"Glad that YOUR life improved!"


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

stuck on hold said:


> "I was happy when I was seeing her and actually my relationship with you benefited from my affair because I was happy with her so I was happier at home"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


They never cease to amaze me. They continue to pat themselves on the back while twisting reality. Basically he said his cheating is a good thing. Scumbag, sadistic @sshole looking to kick you when you are already on the ground. Your pain is his pleasure. 

The reality is his relationship with his wh0re benefited from the misery at home. It is because he is an @ss that there is tension between you two. And it is because he uses you as an emotional punching bag that there is tension. He blames the tension in the relationship on you, so he justifies an affair. And it is that justification that causes him to put so much energy into the affair. And he needs for her to see him as perfect, but he knows he isn't. He gives her the fake him, while he gives you the ugly real him. So, the wh0re and that affair benefits. 

Tell him to go be happier in HER home. Let her see how happy he really is when you are no longer his punching bag.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

SaltInWound said:


> They never cease to amaze me. They continue to pat themselves on the back while twisting reality. Basically he said his cheating is a good thing. Scumbag, sadistic @sshole looking to kick you when you are already on the ground. Your pain is his pleasure.
> 
> The reality is his relationship with his wh0re benefited from the misery at home. It is because he is an @ss that there is tension between you two. And it is because he uses you as an emotional punching bag that there is tension. He blames the tension in the relationship on you, so he justifies an affair. And it is that justification that causes him to put so much energy into the affair. And he needs for her to see him as perfect, but he knows he isn't. He gives her the fake him, while he gives you the ugly real him. So, the wh0re and that affair benefits.
> 
> Tell him to go be happier in HER home. Let her see how happy he really is when you are no longer his punching bag.


I actually did pretty much tell him that if that is what equals happy to him GO get his happy. 
Although SO MUCH has been said and done in this relationship since DD there is sometimes that one thing that is said that just sums it all up for you. I mean there are people that would have left 80 fights ago or for comments MUCH worse then this one but for me..... That "you benefited from my affair" crap just put the nail in the coffin. After all the blood, sweat and tears and begging, fighting, pleading, crying this man STILL at this point truly thinks that in his head. I've said it here many times that I have this constant need to always clarify or tell him how I feel etc etc and even after all the advice and therapy telling me otherwise I insisted on wanting to spill my guts. However that little BS comment not only told me the poor and disgusting judgement the father of my son has but it told me he doesn't give a F* about what I feel or what I've said in the past months and or years. I know I've been told this already and it's not like I'm discovering something "new" but like I said, sometimes it take that one trigger word or comment to put you in check. 
He summed it all up for me with that. Done crying, done talking, done venting, done explaining, done done
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

turnera said:


> :rofl: :lol:
> 
> "Glad that YOUR life improved!"


No my dear friend, my life has not improved YET but someone just turned on the light at the end if this DARK tunnel......
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Stuck...you sound so empowered!!! I'm so happy for you right now. Isn't it amazing how much better you feel once you start to take a step out of limbo ?


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## motherofone (Jan 10, 2013)

Yeah mine gave me notice he was going to move out and when I said "ok" he retracted it ten days later. I hope yours actually moves.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

vi_bride04 said:


> Stuck...you sound so empowered!!! I'm so happy for you right now. Isn't it amazing how much better you feel once you start to take a step out of limbo ?


It's like being told my time in jail is over . Like being cured from a terminal disease. Whatever is the equivalent of death is what limbo feels like and the step towards freedom feels like another chance at life. 
Now I don't want to get to excited about my relief nor his news of leaving cause I don't want to fall on my face. Especially with my feeling of relief. I want to stay as cool calm and collected as possible and keep my feelings on a normal level. I don't want to get caught up and get "Liberating Muscles" and then get trapped again. 
I pray
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

motherofone said:


> Yeah mine gave me notice he was going to move out and when I said "ok" he retracted it ten days later. I hope yours actually moves.


Lord..... I thought about this last night. Why do you think they retract when you say ok and give them what they want? Cause your not fighting and crying? What is it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

stuck on hold said:


> Lord..... I thought about this last night. Why do you think they retract when you say ok and give them what they want? *Cause your not fighting and crying*? What is it?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think you have it figured out.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

SaltInWound said:


> I think you have it figured out.


No winning is there????
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## motherofone (Jan 10, 2013)

They need you to react and act out emotions for them. When you say ok it wasn't the response they were looking for. I'm not saying you need to agree to everything, but leaving nothing to argue about leaves them nothing to work with.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

The less you argue, the less you reason and the less you care the more effort he will make to pull you back in.

It is why escaping one is so difficult. Most people roughly say what they want or need under stress, they eventually crack and it all comes tumbling out as demands and anger with an underpinning of (some) reason. You then talk together and views and behaviors are talked though. Agreements and apologies are made as appropriate and you both move on with your day. 
I do realize that this process may seem like a foreign country to you at he moment... 

With someone who lives in a world where the view of themselves is formed by the views of others you will see this amazing churning of opinion and emotion. 
They are reacting at that moment to your view of them. 

At other times you will see the "other woman's" view. The view of the neighbours, and the view of family. 

Narcs rely on self esteem, they seem to have no concept of self respect. The difference is subtle, but important.

Self Esteem is external. 
It is nice when somebody tells you that you are wonderful. Awful when you are told you are wrong. It makes you feel bad if someone does not like you but normally we can fall back on self respect and recover fairly quickly

Self respect is internal 
It is driven by your own ethical rule book that is constantly under revision, scrutiny and challenge. 

Narcs love people with self respect, but only for as long as that person is feeding them good self esteem. 

Most people do however reach a point where they have no more to give though. This is the tipping point for the victim 
Usually after many years of trying to work though problems and failing, then one last pivotal event will tip the us into protect and survive mode. 

This does not have to be an affair, but often the Narc is having an affair because we have already reached our tipping point and are exhausted and are on the edge of reason ourselves. 

Your STBXH comment that this could "improve your marriage" fits in here. 
He sees that you are no longer able to provide enough bolstering of his self esteem so has "solved" that by introducing a new supply of esteem and therefore releasing you from some of that work. Voila! Solved!!!

Horrifyingly, while he was saying this, he genuinely believed it.

He did not bank on hitting the wall that is your self respect though. 

He challenged the easy going, and relaxed, stuck_on_holds core values and with that a solid wall that can not be massaged, can not be manipulated and can not be talked around. He is. To put it bluntly, Fcked.

Paradoxically the actions he is taking now are causing him enormous pain. He is losing exactly the thing that he was chasing. His net self esteem inputs have dropped! He did not bank on you withdrawing your support and will now attempt to re-engage you as the primary esteem supplier.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

ing said:


> The less you argue, the less you reason and the less you care the more effort he will make to pull you back in.
> 
> He did not bank on hitting the wall that is your self respect though.
> 
> ...


This is so so true to his current behavior. He called yesterday and asked if the baby needed anything and I said no we are leaving to visit my sister. His responce......"Oh thats great cause whatever makes you happy makes me happy" 

sometimes I repeat things and I wonder if any of you think Im lying cause its just SO OUT THERE!!!!!


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

TODAY IS MY BIRTHDAY AND I SHALL NOT CRY, BE SAD OR ALLOW HIM TO MANIPULATE ME. TODAY IS MY DAY AND MY DAY ONLY.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What? Happy Birthday!


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

stuck on hold said:


> TODAY IS MY BIRTHDAY AND I SHALL NOT CRY, BE SAD OR ALLOW HIM TO MANIPULATE ME. TODAY IS MY DAY AND MY DAY ONLY.


Happy Birthday to you.  Go do something nice for yourself. 

I hope you have a wonderful day. 

Clay


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

Happy Birthday! 
Do something you haven't done for so long you almost forgot you enjoyed it. )


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Thank you all!! I spent half the day wrapping gifts for a children's charity event I am hosting and the second half at a spa. 
It was a fulfilling day both spiritually and emotionally . 

Thank you 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

There are threads upon threads of so much hurt people impose on others here on TAM. Really makes you wonder how there are SO MANY F* up people in this world. Every thread subject line is worst then the next. The stories are desperate and heart breaking. It's unreal how selfish people are. Men cheaters and women cheaters alike. So depressing. 
This is my second marriage. Really doubt I'll EVER be able to trust another man again to EVER do this again. Sad thing is I might miss out on a good guy but I'd rather take the chance and miss him. Id probably ruin the relationship anyway since I don't believe a word that comes out of anyone's mouth. No matter the gifts, vacations, words, marriage, birth of a child..... NADA will let me out my guard down . Id rather be alone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

This is a good article I read the other day, pretty much describes a Narcissist! Of course all the reading and knowledge about it doesn't change anything, but it can at least be helpful to better understand how they work so you can take care of you better. 

The Narcissist's Time - Narcissism, Pathological Narcissism, The Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD), the Narcissist, and Relationships with Abusive Narcissists and Psychopaths


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

My mom never remarried after she kicked my dad out. She loved being alone - and free to do anything she wanted. Never regretted it. I have a coworker who never married, and I really envy her ability to just pick up and do whatever she wants.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

turnera said:


> My mom never remarried after she kicked my dad out. She loved being alone - and free to do anything she wanted. Never regretted it. I have a coworker who never married, and I really envy her ability to just pick up and do whatever she wants.


That's sounds perfect and like a breath of fresh air . I look forward to that feeling. Not just because he left but because truly to my core I am DONE irregardless of him. I long to be free not just of his presence but of this mental agony.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

So he's sending me a "proposed agreement" . HE SAYS he cant live with my constant confrontations, my snooping, and this relationship is toxic. He says he never wanted to leave but he just cant live like this anymore. Im always accusing him of things and he just cant take it anymore. 
He was just going to stay with his brother for a few months but now with all of my snooping he just "cant live like this anymore". 

My responce was ........."Oh I see, I can understand how awfull it must be for you to live like that. Especially if your innocent of it all". 
Please send it to me after the holidays. Im NOT reading your BS today.


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

stuck on hold said:


> Im NOT reading your BS today.


Love that line  Should have used that on the xW when she sent me all those letters lol.

Clay


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Clay2013 said:


> Love that line  Should have used that on the xW when she sent me all those letters lol.
> 
> Clay


Its amazing how when you START ( cause Im going to stay in control of myself and not get to far ahead ) when you START to feel like the fog is lifting you see them as BS. Everything they say. He's trying to turn it around on me and Im not dealing with him or his BS today. Its Christmas next week.


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

It really is horrible that you even have to deal with this at all on this time of the year. I found my xW was cheating on me again five days before Christmas. I threw her out that day. It killed my kids. I kept custody of them but its really amazing so many people just don't care at all about Christmas and how it will affect them for now on. 

I hope you are doing better. 

Clay


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

stuck on hold said:


> So he's sending me a "proposed agreement" . HE SAYS he cant live with my constant confrontations, my snooping, and this relationship is toxic. He says he never wanted to leave but he just cant live like this anymore. Im always accusing him of things and he just cant take it anymore.
> He was just going to stay with his brother for a few months but now with all of my snooping he just "cant live like this anymore".
> 
> My responce was ........."Oh I see, I can understand how awfull it must be for you to live like that. Especially if your innocent of it all".
> Please send it to me after the holidays. Im NOT reading your BS today.


When he starts with this whiny, blameshifting bullsh!t, there is a very good standard answer;

OK


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Clay2013 said:


> It really is horrible that you even have to deal with this at all on this time of the year. I found my xW was cheating on me again five days before Christmas. I threw her out that day. It killed my kids. I kept custody of them but its really amazing so many people just don't care at all about Christmas and how it will affect them for now on.
> 
> I hope you are doing better.
> 
> Clay


Thank you Clay. I thought we could go to counceling and somewhat "repair" the friendship we once had so that this affair and its aftermath did not destroy our family completly. However that is just not possible. 4 mths later he is saying he's tired of hearing the same "crap" over and over again and that HE cant take it anymore AND I am aware he is STILL in daily contact with his mistress ( shocking ). So what the hell am I doing? NOTHING but wasting my time and mental peace. 
I did not want for the kids to suffer but holly sh*t. Even a freindship with this man is NOT for the weak and weary...........


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## NeverMore (Feb 24, 2013)

Once you stop being of use to a Narc, their mask slides off and they show you who they really are. Sorry, I am going through this as well with my STBXH narc, different day, same ole s#!t from them.


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

My xW moved right in with the OM. Its going to take you a while to get over the hurt feelings. The betrayal is deep and there is nothing wrong with you needing this time. I would take as long as you need then come back and possibly open the door to friendship. 

It does not work out for everyone. It did not work out for me but honestly I never wanted to be her friend after she did what she did. You will have to make that decision for you when your ready.

Clay


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> When he starts with this whiny, blameshifting bullsh!t, there is a very good standard answer;
> 
> OK


Love it. Before ( as you know ) I was dead set on speaking my mind and letting him know and spilling my guts. NO MORE. I know you use to tell me not to engage and I failed a bunch of times but all of the sudden "OK" seems like the perfect answer to me.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Clay2013 said:


> My xW moved right in with the OM. Its going to take you a while to get over the hurt feelings. The betrayal is deep and there is nothing wrong with you needing this time. I would take as long as you need then come back and possibly open the door to friendship.
> 
> It does not work out for everyone. *It did not work out for me but honestly I never wanted to be her friend after she did what she did. You will have to make that decision for you when your ready*.
> 
> Clay


That is really where I am or need to be 100%. He's NOT a friend. Its like someone who stole money from you and said he's sorry while he pats your back with his right hand. Then with his left he's stealing money from your other pocket. I THOUGHT I could or wanted to be his friend. Foolish thinking........totally foolish. 

My story will unfold now and I will keep everyone posted. Once he's out of the house I will have to update my thread to something else although something tells me I will have to live with his N ways to some degree for the rest of my life.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

NeverMore said:


> Once you stop being of use to a Narc, their mask slides off and they show you who they really are. Sorry, I am going through this as well with my STBXH narc, different day, same ole s#!t from them.


Im sorry you are dealing with a N. Its a nightmare. I hope you are passed the hurting point. For 2 LONG years I was hurting and just now taking BABY steps to healing. I hope you are not stuck like I am or was .........


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

stuck on hold said:


> That is really where I am or need to be 100%. He's NOT a friend. Its like someone who stole money from you and said he's sorry while he pats your back with his right hand. Then with his left he's stealing money from your other pocket. I THOUGHT I could or wanted to be his friend. Foolish thinking........totally foolish.
> 
> My story will unfold now and I will keep everyone posted. Once he's out of the house I will have to update my thread to something else although something tells me I will have to live with his N ways to some degree for the rest of my life.


You are doing the right things and you are thinking the right way. Its about taking care of you. I kept the house. The kids and most of everything else. She left with a couple bags of clothes. It was never about punishing her it was about protecting me and the kids from someone who was now a stranger. 

There is nothing wrong with taking care of you. 

Its been almost seven years since the divorce and my life is so much better. 

Clay


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Clay2013 said:


> *Its been almost seven years since the divorce and my life is so much better. *Clay


I pray i write this on a blog one day........I pray!!


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

You are writing good things now. Your standing your ground. This is the most important time. I look back at those days and I shined. I have no clue how i just cut her off like that. After ten years of her just dragging me through the mud I just was like off. 

Your doing this now. This is the time you will look back and say wow. Was that really me? Its going to define everything from now on. 

It did for me the seven years is just the icing on the cake 

Clay


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

stuck on hold said:


> So he's sending me a "proposed agreement" . HE SAYS he cant live with my constant confrontations, my snooping, and this relationship is toxic. He says he never wanted to leave but he just cant live like this anymore.


At this point, your response should have been "Really? I agree, neither can I. I'm glad we agree on something. I'll see you at the courthouse for the divorce."


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

turnera said:


> At this point, your response should have been "Really? I agree, neither can I. I'm glad we agree on something. I'll see you at the courthouse for the divorce."


LOL LOL LOL ............so true


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Clay2013 said:


> You are writing good things now. Your standing your ground. This is the most important time. I look back at those days and I shined. I have no clue how i just cut her off like that. After ten years of her just dragging me through the mud I just was like off.
> 
> Your doing this now. This is the time you will look back and say wow. Was that really me? Its going to define everything from now on.
> 
> ...


Thank you for this. Thank God for TAM. Yes I feel this will define everything I am going forward thats why I need to be carefull and consitant. Not for him of course but for myself. I need to make sure I am happy with myself looking back. I need to be strong so I can stay strong for my future and in my future.


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

Its good to check yourself and make sure you doing the right thing but honestly sometimes you just have to follow what you feel too. My first priority was my kids the moment I threw her out of the house. I was so worried what would happen. I spoiled them rotten.


They had so much strawberry shortcake that week there cheeks were red.  My daughter is now 13 and still just brought this up two weeks ago of how wonderful it was. That memory is still strong in her mind. 

Find those moments for you. This is your life. 


Clay


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Clay2013 said:


> Its good to check yourself and make sure you doing the right thing but honestly sometimes you just have to follow what you feel too. My first priority was my kids the moment I threw her out of the house. I was so worried what would happen. I spoiled them rotten.
> 
> 
> They had so much strawberry shortcake that week there cheeks were red.  My daughter is now 13 and still just brought this up two weeks ago of how wonderful it was. That memory is still strong in her mind.
> ...


THE CHILDREN is all I worry and care about. I messed up so bad when I left my first husband with my oldest daughter. It took me 7 years to get over it. I learned from that and refuse to do that again. I love your story about the kids


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

Do something great with your kids. Show them that life does move on. They may never need to know all the details of what is going on in the background but they will always remember being with you. 

You never know you might actually have some fun too while your doing it. Fly south its warmer  Its a blizzard in my city today lol 

Clay


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Clay2013 said:


> Do something great with your kids. Show them that life does move on. They may never need to know all the details of what is going on in the background but they will always remember being with you.
> 
> You never know you might actually have some fun too while your doing it. Fly south its warmer  Its a blizzard in my city today lol
> 
> Clay


its cold in my city as well!!!! I have to ensure my finances are straight first then do something nice for myself. Thats the only draw back. Cant spend like I use to!!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You know what kids like more than trips to Disneyland? Trips to go camping and hiking and sitting around a fire. In other words, quality time. That doesn't have to cost a dime.

If it's too cold outside, empty your dining table, throw blankets over it, and you all huddle underneath and create your own campground.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Does anyone know where I can find the Evidence Gathering Thread? I want to point a friend of mine to it. 

thank you


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Yuck coming home sucks . He's looking for apartments on his computer. That's at least a good sign that's he's serious this time??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

Just smile and walk by. Your already making your plans too.

Clay
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

My friend called to check on me and told me how hurt and mad she is about my situation. I told her that I actually appreciate when he's an a*hole cause it keeps me in check. It keeps me on the same mindset with zero slips. The more of an a*hole he is the better it is for me. It's strange but true. He THINKS I'm affected somehow but I'm not. At least not in the way he expects it. It actuAlly helps now. Doesn't hurt . Just reinforces
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Its almost liberating, isn't it? To have things be reinforced by their @ssholeness vs being hurt by it?


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

It is so much easier when they are being rude. It will be even easier for you when he is out. 

Keep your focus and smile. Its going to be so much fun starting a new life. 

Clay


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

stuck on hold said:


> Does anyone know where I can find the Evidence Gathering Thread? I want to point a friend of mine to it.
> 
> thank you


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...one-interested-evidence-gathering-thread.html


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

so I get home last night and HE COOKED ME DINNER. Not the family dinner but ME. I sat down with my daughter and chowed down a bunch of King Crab Legs and 2 glasses of wine. 
Then I went to sleep with my son. 

Today he text me that he only slept two hours but he has plans this evening. ( SO WHAT? ) 
He also said, that he wants to take our son to his brothers house tomorrow and "there is no need to make it a family event, cause Im not in the mood to fake it". 

I responded, "what makes you think I WANT to go with YOU to your brothers house???" Not a statement you even need to make other then letting me know where my Son will be???

Is there an icon here for WTF???

Im counting down the days for after the holidays. I just cant wait for him to leave. Its like poision to my eyes to even look at him.


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

Does he think all is normal? Have you given him any indication you want this to be like family and all is forgotten? 

Clay


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

stuck on hold said:


> so I get home last night and HE COOKED ME DINNER. Not the family dinner but ME. I sat down with my daughter and chowed down a bunch of King Crab Legs and 2 glasses of wine.
> Then I went to sleep with my son.
> 
> *Today he text me that he only slept two hours but he has plans this evening. ( SO WHAT? )
> ...


You forgot already! BLANK STARE and OK


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Clay2013 said:


> Does he think all is normal? Have you given him any indication you want this to be like family and all is forgotten?
> 
> Clay


NONE!!!! The only exchange I had with him yesterday was about him leaving and how he cant take it anymore and his BS agreement that I told him I will not read till after the holidays. 
I came home started wrapping the toys I bought for my son and did not speak to him. 

The reason why you even ask your question is because as a normal human being you ask yourself that question and you just wouldnt do the things he does. We had an all out war of words yesterday and then this interaction when I get home. Then he's telling me this garbage today about not faking it. Its just a small window to what I deal with on a day to day. Its full blown insanity. To call him just a N is not covering it all. The man is a bunch of things and none of it equals normal. To conversate with this man is pointless because he is just not normal in any capacity. NOTHING sticks to him. You cant imagine how dificult it is to deal with him, live with him and even when he leaves I'll have some level of interaction. Its BEYOND frustrating. It brings tears to my eyes because YOU JUST CANT ARGUE WITH CRAZY!!!!!! I hate this. I really hate this and HE is the father of MY SON so he will influence all this BS on him to some capacity no matter what I do. The fact that you even asked that question just confirms what I feel all the time. This crap is beyond a N. Its insanity. How SAD


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

It does sound crazy but its not all that supprising. My xW just thought i was and idiot for not letting go of the past. She kept saying at times just get over it. I would respond well why don't you move out and Ill get over it. She would storm off. I never got a " I am really sorry I hurt you" You probably will never here that as well. If you do it will probably wont be sincere. 

This is going to be hard but here is a thought. Change how you deal with him. He is feeding off how he affects you because that is what drives him. Every time he talks to you from now on just smile and be polite. If he wants to do things with you say no thanks. Show him no real emotion. Show him he can't get to you. 

You do deserve better but you will never get it from him. Don't waste another second of energy on him. 

You are a better person and you will have a better life. This is your time to show your son how to deal with people like his dad. 


Clay


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

He is a different person from day to day. So many personality changes I can't keep up with all the examples I can give here. 
Is it possible that Mr. Tough guy IS SCARED?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Because you dared to show a backbone.

Either that or he has BPD.


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

Change is hard on most people even when they plan it. If any thing it does not sound like he feels he is in control of things. Whether he wanted to stay or not is does sound like you are in control or your situation and he is loosing ground. 

Has he given a time when he will move out? 

Clay


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Clay2013 said:


> Change is hard on most people even when they plan it. If any thing it does not sound like he feels he is in control of things. Whether he wanted to stay or not is does sound like you are in control or your situation and he is loosing ground.
> 
> Has he given a time when he will move out?
> 
> Clay


He has not indicated such. Just a bunch of "don't worry I'll be gone soon" when I am mad and let him know it. He's not in control but thinks he is at the same time. I know he doesn't want to leave but this big tough lawyer can't back out on hoc own words so he'll be wishy washy instead. I'm just letting the holidays pass by till I ask the question..... When are you leaving?????
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

turnera said:


> Because you dared to show a backbone.
> 
> Either that or he has BPD.


The most wonderful feeing is to feel I have a backbone. I feel free . Some times more then others but still! 

He has BPD as well as many other issues.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

At least you are realizing they are HIS issues and not yours  

Proud of you, stuck


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

stuck on hold said:


> He has not indicated such. Just a bunch of "don't worry I'll be gone soon" when I am mad and let him know it. He's not in control but thinks he is at the same time. I know he doesn't want to leave but this big tough lawyer can't back out on hoc own words so he'll be wishy washy instead. I'm just letting the holidays pass by till I ask the question..... When are you leaving?????
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He is going back in forth in his head because like most cheaters they really don't have a clue of what they are going to do. If he had a plan you would know for sure what it was. 

I don't think my question would be when are you going to leave it would be more of a statement. I want you out soon. 

You deserve better and now its time to take full control of your life. 

Clay


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

vi_bride04 said:


> At least you are realizing they are HIS issues and not yours
> 
> Proud of you, stuck


Thank you so much. It feels good to hear you are proud. I need that confidence 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Clay2013 said:


> He is going back in forth in his head because like most cheaters they really don't have a clue of what they are going to do. If he had a plan you would know for sure what it was.
> 
> I don't think my question would be when are you going to leave it would be more of a statement. I want you out soon.
> 
> ...


After the holidays is when he said he's leaving...... I'll ask him directly then but your right. No leaving it up to him to decide.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

I am glad to hear you are taking control. I know it all happening this time of the year is hard but try to look at this different. This is the Christmas you give your life back to you. 

I am sorry you are going through this. It sure was hard for me. 


In light of everything I hope you do have a wonderful Christmas

Clay


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Clay2013 said:


> I am glad to hear you are taking control. I know it all happening this time of the year is hard but try to look at this different. This is the Christmas you give your life back to you.
> 
> I am sorry you are going through this. It sure was hard for me.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

stuck on hold said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Happy Holidays to you as well!!! 

( things have been strangely quiet on his end. Like you said earlier he has no plans otherwise I would know them. I've been running through what I'm going to say soon as these holidays pass. Short and direct but I know he's not going to expect it at all. He said he's leaving, he wants a divorce but since then he's done everything but sing Christmas carols in the hallways. Don't know what to make of him ever
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

I am glad to hear things were calm for you. It is funny how they sway on what they really want to do. 

Clay


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

stuck on hold said:


> since then he's done everything but sing Christmas carols in the hallways. Don't know what to make of him ever


Just see it as manipulation, like everything else is, and don't give it a moment's thought.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

turnera said:


> Just see it as manipulation, like everything else is, and don't give it a moment's thought.


They get really odd at Xmas. They see the family things going on and they really want to be part of it. They say lovely things and do them too. The family is providing enough jollies at xmas for them. As soon as it is over they are back to old ways.
Best thing is just be civil. It takes practice but worth the peace.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Yes it takes PRACTICE and living with a pathological liar / narassist is nothing I wish on my worst enemy!!

Happy New Year to my TAM friends!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

Happy New Years. 



Clay


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Happy New Year to everyone!!!

Status you ask????? He's still here. Quiet as a mouse though? DONT GET IT. I dont think it had ANYTHING to do with me at all but on NYE he put his wedding band on and wore it to church. Its been off since DD so dont know what the hell that means. If you ask me, him and his mistress made some sort of pack to be "married" this year who the heck knows. He has not worn it again. I didint ask but Im just taking notice of his crazy behavior. I asked him about his intentions and I got no responce. Just that he hasnt had time to think about it because he's busy with work. (lie ) 

The way I see it, Im not going to kill myself anymore over this. Its been over 2 years of crying and confusion. 

I say life doesn’t allow for us NOT to take certain things with us into the new year but thankfully there are some things we DO have control over and we can leave behind. Every one of us knows what those things are personally. It’s like self-inflicted wounds. Nobody should do that to themselves. No reason to keep running to the well for water when you’re thirsty when you know its empty.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

When is he leaving?


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

turnera said:


> When is he leaving?


His responce was........"Im working on some things I havent had time to really think about a date" 

I dont know is the answer.........


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

stuck on hold said:


> His responce was........"Im working on some things I havent had time to really think about a date"
> 
> I dont know is the answer.........


He doesn't plan to leave.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

Can you give him a deadline instead? 

If you plan on filing for divorce, you could file a "sole use and possession of the marital home" and then he would be forced to move, at least temporarily until the divorce was final.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

SaltInWound said:


> He doesn't plan to leave.


THen what gives? What was all the yelling, kicking, screaming, insults, I dont give a F* about you, leave me alone, etc etc about? 

Then he wears his wedding ring to church. 

What gives?????????????


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

vi_bride04 said:


> Can you give him a deadline instead?
> 
> .


Yes, Im going to have to make the move here and set a date. 
He Rug Sweeps like a champ! You should see him. He's like as if 2013 didint even exist. Meanwhile 2013 was THE WORST YEAR OF MY LIFE. Even worse then the year my beloved father past away.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

SaltInWound said:


> He doesn't plan to leave.


didint you say the same thing was done to you? He was leaving he was leaving then he didint?


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

He is trying to wear you down so that you leave, which often times is the end result of life with a narcissist. 

The ring is manipulation too. THat way, the next confrontation he can tell you he was trying to change, and even put his ring on to prove how much he loves you, but it isn't good enough for you. You still cause problems. Ignore the ring. You are wasting energy on something that has nothing to do with repairing the relationship.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

SaltInWound said:


> He is trying to wear you down so that you leave, which often times is the end result of life with a narcissist.
> 
> The ring is manipulation too. THat way, the next confrontation he can tell you he was trying to change, and even put his ring on to prove how much he loves you, but it isn't good enough for you. You still cause problems. Ignore the ring. You are wasting energy on something that has nothing to do with repairing the relationship.


oh no no no , Im not putting any hopes ( even if I had any hopes and lost my mind ) that it was for me. I just find him and all of his bipolar behavior so crazy. Really do. He's a lying cheating bas*ard and thats all he'll ever be. To me and to anyone else. I dont belive A WORD that comes out of his mouth. 

I've been doing the 180 for myself and I must say.......I feel liberated. Ive just removed him as a person or as the person I though I married etc. He's just the father of my son. period. 

Actually I've applied the 180 to my sister as well! ha!


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

stuck on hold said:


> THen what gives? What was all the yelling, kicking, screaming, insults, I dont give a F* about you, leave me alone, etc etc about?
> 
> Then he wears his wedding ring to church.
> 
> What gives?????????????


What gives is that he is fvcking nuts, thats what. Self absorbed narcissistic jerk. Ignore everything he says, ignore everything he does. Deny his existence, because it is all fake bullsh!t anyway.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

stuck on hold said:


> didint you say the same thing was done to you? He was leaving he was leaving then he didint?


No. He never said he was leaving. He never even mentioned wanting a divorce. In the end, I had to go out of country for medical care and while away, he moved another woman in our house and legally there was nothing I could do. I lost everything. The point is, he never had intention of leaving/moving out. He knew if he was the one who moved out, he would lose too much and he wasn't willing to lose anything, as he has demonstrated over the last year. Apparently, he had been planning my demise for years.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> What gives is that he is fvcking nuts, thats what. Self absorbed narcissistic jerk. Ignore everything he says, ignore everything he does. Deny his existence, because it is all fake bullsh!t anyway.


ONE BILLION PERCENT AGREE WITH YOU. Funny, in a way, I tell myself this on a daily basis. "I dont care, dont ask, your lying, your a fake, who cares " 

All day long........... 

I can see how easily for the past 2 plus years I feel into this trap though. What I write here about his behavior is nothing new. Its been the same crazy cycle for over 2 years and if I think about it way before I knew who he really was too. I can see NOW how I fell for it EACH AND EVERY TIME. Im not a master of it YET but Im getting there Lord willing. I just pray for myself. Stay focused!


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

SaltInWound said:


> No. He never said he was leaving. He never even mentioned wanting a divorce. In the end, I had to go out of country for medical care and while away, he moved another woman in our house and legally there was nothing I could do. I lost everything. The point is, he never had intention of leaving/moving out. He knew if he was the one who moved out, he would lose too much and he wasn't willing to lose anything, as he has demonstrated over the last year. Apparently, he had been planning my demise for years.


My issues aside...so sorry ! ( HUG )


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

*


3Xnocharm said:



What gives is that he is fvcking nuts, thats what. Self absorbed narcissistic jerk. QUOTE]

Click to expand...

*


3Xnocharm said:


> 3X , your posting always make me laugh out loud . Your so direct and frustrated with his BS.
> 
> lol


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

You should help LostWifeCrushed get to the point you are at 

These N jerks are just horrible horrible people to the ones that love them the most.


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

vi_bride04 said:


> You should help LostWifeCrushed get to the point you are at
> 
> These N jerks are just horrible horrible people to the ones that love them the most.


Yes they are and yes, I'll read her postings. You know one thing I've learned ( am learning ) is that you are PUT THROUGH THE RINGER like a death sentence. You have to be REALISTIC otherwise you will never stop hurting and crying. I read the posts hear and story after story of one betrayal after another. Each one worst then the next and all I feel is ............there is no point in trying. Once it happends there is no going back. Yes there are some success stories and Im happy for them but even they have triggers still. Its SO hard to live with that. The foundation that made you get together in the first place is gone. You no longer have that Ying / Yang factor. Im happy for those that R but I dont believe its ever ever the same. 

For those "stuck" you have to be STRONG and stay in reality always.


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

This is what we talked about before. This is now about you and no longer about him. Its your life so take charge of it. Set a date you want him out. If you have to work around legal stuff then get that moving and figure out what that date will be. Don't sway on any of it. 

The sooner he is gone the better off you are. 

Clay


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

Clay2013 said:


> This is what we talked about before. This is now about you and no longer about him. Its your life so take charge of it. Set a date you want him out. If you have to work around legal stuff then get that moving and figure out what that date will be. Don't sway on any of it.
> 
> The sooner he is gone the better off you are.
> 
> Clay


He just sent me a text saying " Besides all the crap in our lives, is there any other reason why you are upset with me this week?" 

:scratchhead:


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

stuck on hold said:


> He just sent me a text saying " Besides all the crap in our lives, is there any other reason why you are upset with me this week?"
> 
> :scratchhead:


He is looking for confrontation.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

stuck on hold said:


> He just sent me a text saying " Besides all the crap in our lives, is there any other reason why you are upset with me this week?"
> 
> :scratchhead:


Ignore it, IMO.

He is looking to bait you into a discussion so he can just push blame off onto you some how. 

You not falling for previous tactics that usually work have made him confused. He is trying to figure out what angle to now try to play your emotions.


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

He is crazy. He is playing with you and the longer he is in your life he is going to use every angle. You are better than this. You deserve better. 

Don't respond to him. Just focus on what you want and need. I think getting him out is priority so you can move on. 

I cant really tell you this enough. Get him out asap. You wont really start to heal until he is gone. 

Clay


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## stuck on hold (Sep 16, 2013)

I said this exact thing to someone last week. It's not till he leaves that I will TRULY heal. I can have all of the epiphanies in the world but will not be complete till he's out of my everyday life. 

He is desperately trying to dig around for information. Wants to know what I'm thinking. The make up of who I am has notes upon notes on my thoughts and feelings and n the past I would have sent them all to him. Honestly it's a struggle sometimes not to say them even today however not only am I practicing disconnecting and ignoring but at the same time I love how it makes him crazy to wonder and want to know and I don't tell him anything. The fact that I'm cordial and very casual about everything is making him pace around in his head. I can see him agitated and even I dare to say a little nervous at times at the wondering. 
I use to give him ALL the ammunition to know all of my thoughts and feelings. Now I don't give him anything to feed off of.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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