# Long-Term Repair



## Seahawks (Jun 26, 2013)

I have been married for roughly 15 years and have two younger children. We were living what I thought was the American Dream when I was told by my wife that she was having an "emotional" affair with a mutual friend for two years. I was heartbroken and I agreed to marriage consuling to resolve my feelings of resentment, betrayal and to get her perspective on why something like this would happen. 

While attending counseling and my wife's deep regret during counseling sessions I was contacted by the OM who told me that my wife had purchased another phone that I couldn't track and was texting him. The OM was caught by his wife and made him tell me. I was beside myself and confronted her. Once I showed the black and white evidence she admitted that she had done this but didn't really give what I felt was a valid reason why only saying she needed to know where her and the OM stood!??

At this point I still thought it was an "emotional" affair. That was until a month later my wife was caught between a rock and a hard place and had to admit to me that it was indeed a physical affair and it had been going on for 2 years. This affair actually made her "love" me more as a husband (wtf?) and he made her feel sexy. In addition, she told me that it was purely sex and that she felt comfortable doing things with him that she could not do with me. I demanded details and got them. These last few comments she made still linger with me today as I am more than happy to accomodate anything she would have liked to try.

Well over a year and a half has passed since this discovery and although emotions have faded a bit, any waking hour that I am not keeping my mind busy takes me back to a few burning questions: How can I stay with someone who cheated on me for 2 years? How can I stay with someone who told me a half truth, seeked counseling only to find out that she was trying to contact the OM secretly through another phone she bought?

I feel very trapped. I have great things in my life, great kids, great mutual friends, great house, etc... but since I found out I have had a nasty pit in my stomach which time is not healing.

How and when does this feeling of helplessness end? I have read it takes at least 2 years but I'm not the kinda person that easily forgets when someone screws me over. Am I just being a chicken of taking the leap into being single? All of my reading, counseling and attempted self-help are not working. Need some advice from some people who have lived it.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

What is your wife doing to prove that she is truly remorseful, and not still engaged in an affair? Because really, it's up to HER to prove that she's worth you staying with her. it isn't up to you to convince yourself. Your default should be that you are DONE, and only reconcile if she proves you should reconcile.


----------



## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

I couldnt do it. I would already be gone, but you need to do whats right for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

This is exactly the reason it is solid advice to file for D upon discovery. She didn't get it. No fear about losing you. I say these things for the benefit of lurkers who are just finding out about their betrayals.

Seahawks,

Your wife did some things very similar to what my exWW did to me. I couldn't do it. It eventually made me pull away and D.

I know the reasons to stay. Kids. Money. Embarassment. Religions ideals. Fear of finding nobody better. Fear of being lonely.

I am guessing from your post that you are in your late 30's to mid 40's. If you look at the reasons to stay, you can cross off the last two. Lots of good women in that age range.

Kids are the hardest part. They can survive. Some argue that a broken home is better than resentful parents.

Money. Life is short. Money can be earned again, but lost time is gone forever. Don't waste any more.

Embarassment and religion? You didn't choose this. It is quite alright to admit that you had a bad ex wife.

I vote you move on and regain your sense of YOU!

So sorry you have been through this.


----------



## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

Seems like I am posting waaay too much today!

Seahawks,

I can't give you advice on staying longer to figure this out, because I couldn't stay as long as you have.

Here is some potentially risky advice for you:

1. Look at some of the free dating sites in your area. No flirting until you decide to D. Just look and think about what else is out there.

2. Look talk to single male friends that are in your age group. See what it is like to be "out there" again.

3. Look at places to live. If you D you probably will have to sell the house. See what life is like in different places, apartments, etc. It can be a good change of pace. Houses should not be a reason to stay married.

4. Don't let fear be the reason you stay married. You should love, respect, and trust your spouse. If you can't, find a better one. They exist. Your scars may make you think otherwise.

5. Dating is scary, but can be very fun!!! Fun!!! Lol.

Good luck!


----------



## CEL (May 7, 2013)

So a year and a half later and you still feel like crap. Here is the deal when the affair first comes to light we as men go into fix it mode we try to do anything to fix the affair and we put our feelings on the back burner. You did this and now you are dealing with the after math. Here are somethings to think on.

1. As someone said it is up to HER to help you heal. She has not done this even from your 1 post I can see this but please elaborate and tell us what she has done.

2. Looks like you went through MC you could give it another try it may help you work through your current problem.

3. File the papers for Divorce...harsh huh? You don't have to go through with it but I would file just for piece of mind you have given it a year and half and you just can't do it. You can't get beyond 2 years of pain.

4. How many kids? How old are you?

5. You can have her post here and start a thread so that she can interact with others who are where she has been and where you are.


Let me go through what she did as I think this will help you at least download the paperwork and start working on the divorce. I think you need to do this to motivate her to start realizing the error of her ways.

1. She lied to you for years.

2. After doing things with him she would never do with you she came home and kissed you hello.

3. She betrayed you vows.

4. She betrayed your love.

5. She betrayed your kids.

6. She continued to lie to you WHILE going through counseling.

7. She has shown little remorse or accountability.

8. 2 DAMN YEARS....REALLY


You may be scared to lose your marriage after this you have NO marriage the marriage is a illusion it certainly was not real to her. I would file then give her a simple declaration she has to change YOUR mind.


----------



## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

What a horrible story. Your wife saw you as Plan B. She contacted the OM while in counseling with you to find out where she stood with the OM? This means if the OM said lets run off together she would have left you. Since she seemingly had no other options she saw you as the door prize. I do not know how you could do it.

She was screwing this guy for 2 years putting your health at risk for STD's. Have you ever thought that you had sex with her after she was with him? She actually said to you that having sex with him for two years made her love you more???? This statement shows that she thinks that you are an absolute moron. This statement alone should have been a deal breaker for you.

Why don't you ask your wife if it would be all right for you have a girlfriend and have sex with her for two years since it will make you love your wife even more. I am sure your wife would appreciate this comment. Hopefully you both have been tested for STD's.

You now have a wife who knows that she could have a lover for 2 years and a husband that would forgive and accept it since the husband knows he was only second choice to her OM. Sorry but your wife has shown that she has no respect for you whatsoever. If you do not respect yourself then who will?


----------



## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Divorce. I'm sorry but a year and a half out and you are still unsure about her honesty? She should have put those doubts to bed a while ago, which means she has done no heavy lifting to show you she sees you as number 1. 

She is still stringing you along.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Seahawks said:


> This affair actually made her "love" me more as a husband (wtf?) and he made her feel sexy. In addition, she told me that it was purely sex and that she felt comfortable doing things with him that she could not do with me. I demanded details and got them. These last few comments she made still linger with me today as I am more than happy to accomodate anything she would have liked to try.


Does she still maintain this kind of bologna? What has she been doing to help you get through it?

Man, if you feel trapped, free your self, you can. You own her nothing, nothing.


----------



## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Considering how she continually lied and even continued the betrayal tells me she loved him deeply and you not at all. And still doesn't- not after all that.

When does the pain end?

When you gain your freedom to really find the one who loves you, that's when.


----------



## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I know a number of men who lived in unhappy marriages only to discover once they divorced that they were much, much happier. They were so used to the pain that they didn't know the extent of their misery in the marriage. They all said that they were surprised at how free and peaceful and whole they felt once they left.

You are not serving a prison sentence. Go find some peace and joy for yourself. Your children will adapt.


----------



## CreekWalker (May 31, 2013)

I'm 4 years into reconciliation. Some times are better than others. I don't think that dark place in my heart will ever go away. It's like angina mixed with sour stomach sort of. It's insecure and anxious and angry and resentful. 

But I love him. I feel right in his arms.

There is no right answer to any of this. She broke something you can not fix. The question is...was what you had before the affair, and the goodness you find now...worth living with that sad place in your heart? AND can you do it?

You're the only one who can imagine the answer to that. I understand.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Once infidelity occurs, that blind trust that your spouse would never cheat on you is gone. You live with that thought in the back of your mind. Some days are better than other days.

My husband first cheated on me 30 years ago. And then again a few years ago. My divorce was final recently. We were married 45 years. For the first time since this began 30 years ago, I am completely at peace. What he does is no longer my concern. And that's a great feeling.

Some people can R successfully. Some people think they can R successfully and find out they can't. And some people know upfront they can't R and don't try to. Whatever path you choose, I hope it works out for you.


----------



## Calibre12 (Nov 27, 2012)

What I would do for that kind of proof! My ExNew Husband had a 7 year emotional f**king affair too and refuses to admit to it along with his tramp. So, I am just waiting with a pen in hand because there is no way in hell I am going to pay for another divorce. And I know exactly how you feel. Insult to injury...She is nothing short of wicked and since you have the proof there is no more reason nor any reason to cope with infidelity, especially the underground devious kind it has now become. Give her his p**** full time, his wife will make sure she chokes on it.


----------



## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Your story is basically the same as mine; timelines, length of the affair, in R for almost 2 years; trickle truthed, plan B'd, only some minor differences.

I made mistakes after I found out. The one I regret the most? Not giving her all the consequences that I subsequently found out I should have - after I found TAM. Because of that, I realized that I never had a chance to fully test her remorse. Nothing I can do about it now and I'll just have to live with that.

But.... my wife has done almost everything I could expect a remorseful wife to do since then. She is loving, kind, transparant, sexually giving, fun to be with, my best friend. I am now more optimistic than ever that the R will be permanent.

However, like you, I still have lingering doubts that pop in my head. Not as many and not as often as I used to, but they're still there none the same. It's like I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. I'm sure they'll never completely go away.

My point to you though, is there is hope. Despite the mistakes you may have made you have a chance to R successfully - *IF YOUR WIFE DEMONSTRATES LOVE AND REMORSE EVERY DAY*. 

Does she?


----------



## Rottdad42 (Nov 26, 2012)

Seahawks, two years man.....two. This is not a one time hit it and quit. This has emotions connected to it. She is fogged up bad. There is not a chance in he** i would her a second chance. Even if "R" was possible, could you ever fully trust her. The answer is no. She has ruined it. I like to be able to see both sides and make an informed opinion in regards to "D", but man she did you wrong. The part about sex with him made me love you more is a crock. Take a walk man you don't need this misery.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Personally, I would have been gone the minute she said her cheating made her love you more, it's just so over the top stupid and hateful that it would have been it.

Then the admission that she was happier giving him special sex acts that she would refuse you - sorry, but how can you possibly recover from that either?

These facts showed that she was more dedicated to him than to you or the marriage, her getting the burner phone for instance, bring more excited and comfortable sharing special sex acts with him.

Seeing as she intended to take it underground, what steps have you taken to know it isn't still active underground or that she hasn't started up with a new guy.

Is she still spouting the attitude that she did nothing wrong?

Has she opened up sexually to you? 

Has she done those sex acts she reserved for him for you?

Other than the fear of loosing your kids, is what are you staying for? What is she contributing to you to make you happy and content ?


----------



## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

badmemory said:


> Your story is basically the same as mine; timelines, length of the affair, in R for almost 2 years; trickle truthed, plan B'd, only some minor differences.
> 
> I made mistakes after I found out. The one I regret the most? Not giving her all the consequences that I subsequently found out I should have - after I found TAM. Because of that, I realized that I never had a chance to fully test her remorse. Nothing I can do about it now and I'll just have to live with that.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

So much truth.. there is no R without true remorse.. just false R.

She should be thanking you every day for giving her a second chance... not telling you how you should thank her for improving your marriage by boinking another man. She needs a wake-up call.. a glimpse at her life without you. 

Next time she goes out, change the locks and put all her stuff in bags... tell her to call if she needs to get anything else, you'll make sure someone is there to let her in.


----------



## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> I know a number of men who lived in unhappy marriages only to discover once they divorced that they were much, much happier. They were so used to the pain that they didn't know the extent of their misery in the marriage. They all said that they were surprised at how free and peaceful and whole they felt once they left.
> 
> You are not serving a prison sentence. Go find some peace and joy for yourself. Your children will adapt.


This is me. I had absolutely no idea how miserable I really was. The toll it was taking on my body, my mind, and on my sons. I tried R. For 6 years. It failed for all of the things your wife is not doing and many more. Though, I am not enjoying the divorce process, my sons and I are so much happier and healthier. Give careful consideration to what YOU want, not your wife. She gave that up when she decided to engage herself with another man.


----------



## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

What has your wife done? 

That is the most important part by far and it's the part you haven't told us!

My ex wife had a 2 1/2 year affair. She did things for the POS that she wouldn't do in 20 years of marriage (not much, but they were important to me).

I divorced her, but we are still together - but she has been working bloody hard to keep me. Without her desperation to do so (and our 2 daughters) I would have been gone.

I have changed some about me and she has changed a lot about her.

There is hope, it can get better.

Let us know what your wife has been doing to help you. Has she told you everything you want to know? 

Is she always ready to talk?

Has she expressed remorse?


----------



## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Some say it can take 2 to five years to get over an A. You may be in a false R. If your wife is not giving you what you need or is holding back you may subconsciously be feeling it and that could be causing the disharmony. Also some folks can never get over a betrayal.

As far as the lies, the counseling, etc. that is all part of the cheaters handbook. If she changed, is remorseful, sorry, etc, and you want to R, then all the things she did are things that you will evantually have to get over and work through. 

I got the ugly truth just over a month ago. I had a recording of them having sex in February and it is brutal. The things our WS's do to us can be horrible, gross, sick, etc. 

If you are not healing get some help. Talk to your wife, she should be helping you through this, and you also need to help her through her sh*t, as unfair as that may seem, you both need to work on it.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

:iagree:

Seahawks

Thorburne makes some good points.

If your wife is not helping you and being remorseful then the pit in your stomach will never go away.

Some people cannot forgive adultery. I was one.

Also, if you feel this way then you should sit your wife down and tell her you are still unhappy with her, the adultery, the lies and overall with your marriage.

Tell her how you feel.

Now I will tell you why you feel the way you do.

She lied. Then she continued to lie. Then she instituted counseling and continued to lie and cheat.

She tells you it was an EA. Then she finally admits it was a PA. But only after you had the goods on her both times.

Then she tells you it was only physical and that she loves you as a husband. Then she tells you that she is waiting to see how OM feels.

SO Seahawks. 

Your wife is the Queen of TT and has been fence sitting regarding how she truly feels about you.

Do you want to get rid of the pain in your stomach???

Sit her down, tell her how you really feel then hand her the D papers.

Tell her she has 3-6 months to convince you why you should continue this marriage.

That is how you get the pain out of your stomach. Because you are married and living with a woman that made you 2nd choice.

She did things sexually with the OM that she would not do with you???

Oh, that is real reassuring.

My wife is the biggest prude in the world. If she ever did different moves with another man that she would not do with me she would be on his doorstep, with all of her clothes in her hands staring at the OM and his wife wondering who to turn to.

Because it would not be me.

I know you love your children. Wouldn't they want a whole, happy Dad?

You have suffered through her two year affair and months of trickle truth.

Now let her hear your truth the way adults are supposed to act if they are unhappy.

You have very valid reasons for feeling the way you do.

Good Luck

HM64


----------



## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Has your wife shown any remorse at all? what has she done to help you heal? Has she finally told you all the truth?


----------



## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

The "cheating made her love you more" was fog talk. It's one of the ways she justified the A to herself. It sounds like you started R all wrong. 

It had to be EA/PA not "just" a PA.

What has she done to prove she is faithful you are not plan B, and it will not happen again. She mat never be able to prove these things but she should be working at it. If she's not you can forget about healing while married to her.

Has she fully disclosed every detail that you asked for?

What consiquences did the A have for her?

She must be working at these things, and these questions cannot be overlooked. You cannot heal without fully dealing with the A and getting the needed reassurances.

To put this in perspective my W had a 40 day EA. It took her 30 days to get me to agree to try for R. I stopped setting money aside for D at about 90 days. Your W had a 730 day EA/PA.

Also you never get over the A. You learn to deal with it, or you move on. There is no getting over it. The wound heals, but the scar remains. A two year A is a scar most cannot deal with.


----------



## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey seahawks---the time measurement means nothing---this is all about you---you may never heal from this----The betrayel is never gonna disappear---it is always there---locked in your sub--conscious---to be brought up at 3 a m, when in bed awake, or when you are alone driving to and from somewhere, or when sitting at your desk at work--once again alone---the sub--conscious is where this battle is to be conducted

They say 2 to 5 yrs--to have a decent R---and get the mge on track---but that is meaningless---if in all reality---you are in misery day after day, and just stifling the misery---so that no one but you knows what is deep inside of you

2 yrs with another man---wife happily wanted to continue on with her lover---even tho she was supposedly deeply committed to you------and the biggest problem you face is that back then you never knew what was going on---with the burner phone you never knew what was going on---and TODAY, SHE MAY BE CHEATING ON YOU, EVEN AS YOU WRITE THIS THREAD

Your wife is a master at cheating---you in all honesty have no chance, if she wants to cheat she will----she has proven that already----and even as proven with the burner phone---WHEN THE MGE WAS HANGING BY A THREAD, SHE STILL WANTED TO BE WITH HER LOVER------Your sub--conscious knows all of this---and it is NOT LETTING ANY OF THIS DISSAPEAR

What do you want out of the rest of your life----whatever you have that you call a mge, what is it really-----your wife, loved/loves another---you are her bankroll---and you live in misery---what kind of a love is left after all of this

There is one way, and one way only to escape this---and be free----you know what the route is

It leads to a whole new pain free world----the minute you are set free, you actually will feel better, cuz the lack of trust, will go away---the constant misery will go away----the wondering, and doubt, and life as a constant parole officer will go away

You will notice that there is a sun that shines by day, and a moon that glows by night---you will go out and meet new people----you will have a life again---and it will be free of doubt, hurt, pain, misery, and disrespect----you will not ever again---wonder what your spouse is doing, why she is doing it, who she is with, why she is with them---does she have any feelings for you---is someone else turning her on---does she have a burner phone, or anything else you don't know about---ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE WITH YOU 24/7----ARN'T THEY---they never go away--do they----the trigger for all of this---it is with you each and every day--and as long as you stay married, that trigger will remain

There is one path and one path only to a carefree life and peace of mind---once again, you know what it is

Its your choice---MISERY OR FREEDOM


----------



## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> If she ever did different moves with another man that she would not do with me she would be on his doorstep, with all of her clothes in her hands staring at the OM and his wife wondering who to turn to.



Happyman. I always said that if my ex wife ever even kissed another man, we would through. I was adamant. 

We may yet be through at some stage - but I'm still here 13 months later.

Please don't say things like this as it is not helpful to anybody. 

I know your posts are always helpful, from the heart, and insightful so I'm absolutely not trying to have a go in any way at all.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Chris989 said:


> Happyman. I always said that if my ex wife ever even kissed another man, we would through. I was adamant.
> 
> We may yet be through at some stage - but I'm still here 13 months later.
> 
> ...


Sorry if I struck a nerve Chris.

But as you know I not only speak from my heart but from my head.

Peace.

HM


----------



## Legend (Jun 25, 2013)

OK. I've been reading similar types of posts from weak-kneed panzies. Oh the heart break. Boo-hooo.

Grow a set and start behaving like a man. Assert your dominant role as a man. You have to demand respect in marriage, no margin for error. You also earn it by meeting your spouses needs in a very selfless manner.

Think you're going to get more respect from her by your understanding and forgiveness? Hell no. Firm, loving, but you need to have conviction in your stance. 

Lack of respect cannot be tolerated. Period. Cheating on you shows she not only lacks respect for you as a man, but lacks respect for the sanctity of marriage.

Marriage is certainly a 100/100% proposition. Nothing can point out our flaws and weaknesses over time like marriage. 

Either forgive her and never bring it up again or throw the disrespectful spouse out the door. Be firm and decisive about it.


----------



## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Legend said:


> OK. I've been reading similar types of posts from weak-kneed panzies. Oh the heart break. Boo-hooo.
> 
> Either forgive her and never bring it up again or throw the disrespectful spouse out the door. Be firm and decisive about it.


That is some great advice there. Except the bit where you gave advice which is 100% wrong. You see, in real life it is neither possible nor desirable to "never bring it up". It wouldn't be healthy, or fair, or anything. It would be what we call "rugsweeping". 

So, Seahawks, if you come back please ignore this point. It's nonsense.

edit/ Looks like I've been trolled by the 10 times posted "Legend". I'll leave my reply here in case Seahawks thinks Legend is serious.


----------



## Legend (Jun 25, 2013)

Forgiveness of this magnitude can only come with the help of Christ. To truly forgive someone means that you will never bring up the subject during a future argument or use it to belittle your spouse. That is the only healthy way to move forward. It's questionable whether you feel your spouse is truly remorseful and has repented and atoned. Yes, it the real world for those who love God and their spouse.


----------



## Seahawks (Jun 26, 2013)

I appreciate all of the points of view I have received on my post. In the end, I do think that I have a lack of respect for myself and am not a very decisive person. If I don't respect myself why should I expect anyone to respect me? I am a people pleaser and almost always take a back seat to someone else pleasure.

The one thing about separating is that I really think a ton about my kids and not being able to be with them every night and how that might impact them, mostly my younger son who is my shadow. On the other hand, I am a cranky easily irratable pain in the ass to be around for the last couple years (and depending on who you talk to maybe more than that) so maybe being apart would help change that.

As it stands right now I think the best plan of action is to get my thoughts organized and on paper and demand some things from my wife. If she wants this to work she is the one that has to make it work.

The unfortunate part is that I believe she is in a depression and searching for her own identity within all of this. She is remorseful but I think that she is so disfunctional trying to figure herself out that to help me out is almost impossible. When I bring my thoughts up and how pissed off I am about things it sends her into a tail spin for days. 

I'm rambling here but another thing that bothers me is that although she takes responsibility for her actions she also is quick to point out that the OM is soo much worse because he is a cronic cheater, a liar, a minupulator, etc....and she just fell for his games. She has told the truth about the affair to me and he has not to his wife. To me this is all just BS talk. Although I agree with her points she is just as guilty as he is and when I hear her continually say these things it irritates the hell out of me. I would also say there probably aren't more than 2 or 3 days that go by that one of us doesn't bring up how stupid and corrupt this guy is with all facets of his life. Although I love to hear what a dumb ass this guy is it also doesn't allow us to move forward. Almost need to move out of state and start fresh if we do stay together.

Anyway, thank you all for your responses


----------



## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

When you focus on the OM/OW it puts the focus there and I don't think that it really helps in the long run. I got closure with the XOM by talking to him for four days. My wife did not. Her one counselor told her to get in contact with him to have closure. Whoa!!!. I told my wife no way. She had a good counselor for the most part but when she told my wife to contact the XOM for closure I said no. I said no contact means no contact. My wife was a little put off at first and then told me that I was right as it may open up feelings. Duh!!! She still has feelings for the XOM as we have been talking about it. 

I don't think moving will help. The house we live in right now we bought last fall and my current job that I started at in 2011 are both triggers. The day before I started orientation for this job, my wife and I looked at a house and met the guy I would be living with until we could get a house. A few days later I moved in with this guy and his five year old son. On the day I came down here for orientation my wife had sex with the XOM and then a few days later had sex again with him just hours before I came home on Friday (I came home on the weekends) and had sex with her. My wife and I bought this house while she was having an A. There are days I just want to quit my job and sell the darn house. I had those feelings two days ago and told her that. What will it do? Create a bigger mess for me. So we work through our feelings the best we can and we hope for the best and we hope like he*l that we will make it when we are in R.


----------



## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

Seahawks said:


> I'm rambling here but another thing that bothers me is that although she takes responsibility for her actions she also is quick to point out that the OM is soo much worse because he is a cronic cheater, a liar, a minupulator, etc....


Tell her OM is not part of the equasion. OM did not make any vows to you. It was up to her to hold those vows, not OM.


----------



## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Legend said:


> Forgiveness of this magnitude can only come with the help of Christ. To truly forgive someone means that you will never bring up the subject during a future argument or use it to belittle your spouse. That is the only healthy way to move forward. It's questionable whether you feel your spouse is truly remorseful and has repented and atoned. Yes, it the real world for those who love God and their spouse.


Nonsense.


----------



## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

Seahawks said:


> As it stands right now I think the best plan of action is to get my thoughts organized and on paper and demand some things from my wife. If she wants this to work she is the one that has to make it work.


This is the great paradox for couples that attempt reconciliation after infidelity - The person who can best heal you is the same person that betrayed you in the first place.

Your wife has to play an active role in sorting out the mess she created. 

Good luck and keep posting, you'll find there's a lot of hard earned knowledge to be found here.


----------



## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Why would you wish to stay married to a woman who was screwing another man behind your back for 2 years putting your health at risk for std's? Why would you wish to stay married to a woman who actually told you to your face that because she was screwing this OM for 2 years behind your back and putting your health at risk for STD's it actually made her love you more?

If you even consider not divorcing her then you are actually in far worse shape than she is. Good lord man, see an attorney and show some respect for yourself for once. This is so pathetic.


----------



## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

Seahawks said:


> I appreciate all of the points of view I have received on my post. In the end, I do think that I have a lack of respect for myself and am not a very decisive person. If I don't respect myself why should I expect anyone to respect me? I am a people pleaser and almost always take a back seat to someone else pleasure.
> 
> *Good start on finding yourself. It takes time, but you really need to work on changing this part of yourself. It takes maturity to recognize and change. Little steps, and you will get there.*
> 
> ...


Go Seahawks! Good luck! Keep us posted.


----------



## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Legend said:


> OK. * I've been reading similar types of posts from weak-kneed panzies. Oh the heart break. Boo-hooo.*Grow a set and start behaving like a man. Assert your dominant role as a man. You have to demand respect in marriage, no margin for error. You also earn it by meeting your spouses needs in a very selfless manner.
> 
> Think you're going to get more respect from her by your understanding and forgiveness? Hell no. Firm, loving, but you need to have conviction in your stance.
> 
> ...


Compassion, my friend, compassion. Many of us are not weak kneed panzies. I served over 39 years in the military, have served in ministry and was in combat. Nothing that I faced in life, like having a guy get his brains blown out by a bullet while he was standing next to me, being held hostage by a para-military group who had orders to shoot me, or anything else has brought me so much pain then the betrayal of my wife. 






Chris989 said:


> That is some great advice there. Except the bit where you gave advice which is 100% wrong. You see, in real life it is neither possible nor desirable to "never bring it up". It wouldn't be healthy, or fair, or anything. It would be what we call "rugsweeping".
> 
> So, Seahawks, if you come back please ignore this point. It's nonsense.
> 
> edit/ Looks like I've been trolled by the 10 times posted "Legend". I'll leave my reply here in case Seahawks thinks Legend is serious.





Legend said:


> Forgiveness of this magnitude can only come with the help of Christ. To truly forgive someone means that you will never bring up the subject during a future argument or use it to belittle your spouse. That is the only healthy way to move forward. It's questionable whether you feel your spouse is truly remorseful and has repented and atoned. Yes, it the real world for those who love God and their spouse.


Forgiveness is not forgetting what happened. Our brains are not wired that way. You will not find one passage in the Scriptures where it says "Forgive and Forget". 

Forgiveness does not excuse the behavior of the other person as it does not take them off the hook.

Forgiveness does not remove the hurt and the pain that has been caused by the offence.

Forgiveness does not mean you will reconsile with the person. You can forgive a cheater and D them.

Forgiveness is a process, not an event. When your world is rocked by a cheating spouse you may find out more information, or the hurt will come back in time and time again, and each time I believe you need to forgive. Sometimes over and over again for the same offence. And there are consequences of the A that may occur over time and you may have to forgive again. Or you are hit with an inrusive thought or trigger. I just don't see forgiveness as a one time event but rather I see it as a process.

I don't see anywhere in Christianity that says we forgive and forget it, or that it is not open for discussion in the future. 

Legion, I say to you. Don't rugsweep the pain that a spouse brings into your life. Sitting down and talking about issues will bring healing and understanding. It will bring pain but that pain will also bring growth.

And Seahawk - don't give up but get the answers you need and get your wife to help you. But you do need to let go of your anger. It poisons the soul and those around you.


----------



## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Sorry if I struck a nerve Chris.
> 
> But as you know I not only speak from my heart but from my head.
> 
> ...


Thing is happyman, you say she would be out if she ever did moves on a man that she refused to you. I am sorry but that is ridiculous. It implies you did not mind her cheating. If so, then my apologies. If your arrangement was that she can take who she wants when she wants, so long as she denies you nothing sexually and gives nothing more to her AP's than she gives to you, then fair enough. 

If on the other hand you were not ok with her cheating, that you were NOT ok with her doing moves with another man, then how can you possibly say that she would have been out had she done moves with him she refused for you? As we all know, none of us would put up with cheating...then it happened. Then none of us would put up with lies after....but the TT is almost universal. And so the goalposts move.

How do you know your Mrs never did moves on him she never did with you? Were you there? 

I could not believe your post, straight after Chris saying how painful it was that she did things with AP she never did with him. Happyman, your post that Chris referred to was painful and shameful to read. I like your posts, but that one was crap! And totally insensitive. And if you take it in the context that you never were aware of her cheating, and that your WERE NOT ok with it, then what you wrote seems completely stupid and purely inflammatory. For the sake of it.


----------



## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Happyman, your wife is the biggest prude in the world, and yet she screwed another man. I think you should readjust your statement and your view of her.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

Seahawks said:


> I appreciate all of the points of view I have received on my post. In the end, I do think that I have a lack of respect for myself and am not a very decisive person. If I don't respect myself why should I expect anyone to respect me? I am a people pleaser and almost always take a back seat to someone else pleasure.
> 
> The one thing about separating is that I really think a ton about my kids and not being able to be with them every night and how that might impact them, mostly my younger son who is my shadow. On the other hand, I am a cranky easily irratable pain in the ass to be around for the last couple years (and depending on who you talk to maybe more than that) so maybe being apart would help change that.
> 
> ...


You should move and leave her behind with him. They deserve each other and you and your children deserve much much better. 

Seriously, read aloud what you have written in this thread.


----------



## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Legend said:


> Forgiveness of this magnitude can only come with the help of Christ. To truly forgive someone means that you will never bring up the subject during a future argument or use it to belittle your spouse. That is the only healthy way to move forward. It's questionable whether you feel your spouse is truly remorseful and has repented and atoned. Yes, it the real world for those who love God and their spouse.


So do you think prison is wrong too? That if a murderer or peadophile says 'sorry' it should be forgiven and forgotten....til the next time? That if a thief steals £30,000 from your senile mother/grandmother and says sorry, then all is forgiven and 'lets just move on and forget about it'. That when a spouse is mentally abused by their other half and the abuser says sorry....oh blah blah! What a stupid argument.


----------



## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> You should move and leave her behind with him. They deserve each other and you and your children deserve much much better.
> 
> Seriously, read aloud what you have written in this thread.


:iagree:


----------



## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

Remains - you are making me laugh! Kickin' azz and takin' names! Seahawk better listen to you!!! Give it to him.  Love you posts on this thread.


----------



## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Lovemytruck said:


> Remains - you are making me laugh! Kickin' azz and takin' names! Seahawk better listen to you!!! Give it to him.  Love you posts on this thread.


Thankyou! Very kind of you to say so.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Have you put the OM up on cheaterville to warn other husbands?


----------



## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

The most telling part here to me is when she asked him for an update. You were obviously a Plan B at that time. The big thing you need from her is remorse and truthfulness. I seem to want to ask if you are in counselling? If not then I would recommend that you do so immediately.


----------



## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

I get the idea you are gonna stay----

I hope you know what you are doing, cuz the woman you live with is a master at her craft

She had a 2 yr A, and you knew nothing---while going to counseling, she used a burner phone, and you knew nothing----

She knows how to cheat, and even tho she puts her lover down, now at this very moment, that is just another play from the cheaters playbook, to make you think she is done with him

she still was with him in preference to being with you for 2 yrs---what makes you think they are not in contact right now---cuz she says so---those words would be from the mouth of a liar, who plays her game with great skill

If you wanna R---by all means, this is your life---please just do one very major thing----read here, or find someone who is an expert on the methods of cheaters when the go underground----PROTECT YOURSELF----unless you don't care, and I hope you do---don't get taken for another ride by this woman who claims to be a wife!!!!!


----------



## Seahawks (Jun 26, 2013)

Any tips on getting the constant highlight real of the affair out of your mind? I don't think time will do this as it seems that you have to make a conscience effort somehow to block it out.


----------



## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

There are those, that have come up with ways---to make it less painful---you can also go to IC---but you have a sub--conscious, and that's where this battle will be fought---

Your so called wife is also your trigger----as long as you are with her---she is gonna trigger all kinds of misery for you---if you stay with her---it is gonna be part of the drill, and your just gonna have to live with it


----------



## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

Seahawks said:


> Any tips on getting the constant highlight real of the affair out of your mind? I don't think time will do this as it seems that you have to make a conscience effort somehow to block it out.


You have to resolve the affair. You need to be 100% convinced she has stopped the affair, and is actively trying to reconnect to you. If this is not happening, the mind moves will continue. They will evolve and they will get worse until such a time as you can't handle it. Resolve it and the frequency and intensity of the mind movies begin to diminish.

You also need to build the new you. Take charge of your life. Start doing things that interest you. Take Care of yourself both mentally and physically. Determine how you will measure success in your R. Have a plan, work the plan. Be in control. 

Explore the conditions under which you would kick her out and file for D. Talk to your lawyer. You don't have to file. But understanding the process and paint a picture in your mind of what your life would look like. What specific steps you would take? This removes the fear caused by uncertainty. Knowing specifically what reasons would cause you terminate the marriage, and what your actions would be in separating are quite liberating. 

Having an exit strategy gives your mind something else to focus on when the mind movie starts. Even if you hope never to execute it, having one derails those movies.


----------



## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Seahawks,

If I recall your wife seemed to regard her affair in a positive light. Is this still the case because if so I'm sure that is having a huge bearing on your recovery.


----------



## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

She has proven to be deceitful time and again, and in the worst possible way. If the OM wife hadn't insisted he come clean, you'd still be in the dark.

The pain, fear, mistrust, worry and anxiety will likely never go away if you stay with her. You will ALWAYS wonder, and with good reason.

Personally, I could never live like that - I wouldn't want to even if I could. I am divorcing my stbxww. The pain is still there, but it's totally manageable knowing I will not have to be married to this person much longer.

There are good, faithful, decent women out there...one that's right for you. Yes, divorce is painful for children. You know what else is painful? Living in a house of deceit, mistrust, suspicion and resentment.

It's scary as hell, but I think you should start your life anew, without this cheating, lying woman attached to your hip.

Best of luck, whatever path you choose. And I am sorry you're here.


----------



## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Seahawks said:


> Any tips on getting the constant highlight real of the affair out of your mind? I don't think time will do this as it seems that you have to make a conscience effort somehow to block it out.


I've tried to read a lot about coping with "mind movies"; it's one of the biggest hurdles in getting on with a normal life after being betrayed.

Some people suggest imagining the 2 "at it" in ridiculous costumers or some such, but that never worked for me as I know that didn't happen.

The best advice I saw was to accept they will happen; don't try to resist their appearance, as they are going to whether you like it or not. Try to accept the experience and that it will bring pain until it passes.

I definitely get less if my (now ex) wife and I have sex - even if it bothers me when we are actually doing it.

Also, I found finding out any details that I needed to know helped with the worst of the pain. It hurts at first, but it gets better quite quickly. Not knowing has always been the worst part of an already bad deal for me and it is only just now 13 months after dday2 that I no longer want details (mainly because she still lies when she can in any case).

Don't get me wrong, some days they are so bad it is almost debilitating, but knowing they will recede helps me get through the worst of it.

Oh, one last thought, spending a long time on your own can be a killer - long drives, plane journeys and the like. Needless to say, shortly after Dday I had to travel half way across the world to a remote jungle so that was fun...

Since then, I make sure I have a good podcast to listen to and that helps enormously.


----------



## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

The scary part about living with the lies, deceit, and lack of trust is that you can only see how destructive it is when both sides are aware. It seemed to me that my marriage and family was happy while living that lifestyle until I found out the truth. Then the house became a pit of despair for all. Sometimes ignorance is bliss, I guess????
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Iver (Mar 8, 2013)

You need to read "No more Mr. Nice Guy" by Glover as well as Athol Kays MMSL and his new one Mindful Attraction.

Both you and your wife should be in IC & MC if you want to make a go of your marriage. You'll have to decide if that is the route you want to take, and if so what you need her to do to make this work.

Sorry to say but you also need to monitor your wife to make sure the affair isn't ongoing with the OM or a new OM.


----------



## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

Seahawks said:


> I appreciate all of the points of view I have received on my post. In the end, I do think that I have a lack of respect for myself and am not a very decisive person. If I don't respect myself why should I expect anyone to respect me? I am a people pleaser and almost always take a back seat to someone else pleasure.
> 
> *The one thing about separating is that I really think a ton about my kids and not being able to be with them every night and how that might impact them, mostly my younger son who is my shadow.* On the other hand, I am a cranky easily irratable pain in the ass to be around for the last couple years (and depending on who you talk to maybe more than that) so maybe being apart would help change that.
> 
> ...


BTW, why did she admit to an EA in the first place ? What triggered that ?


----------



## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Legend said:


> Forgiveness of this magnitude can only come with the help of Christ. To truly forgive someone means that you will never bring up the subject during a future argument or use it to belittle your spouse. That is the only healthy way to move forward. It's questionable whether you feel your spouse is truly remorseful and has repented and atoned. Yes, it the real world for those who love God and their spouse.


Jesus was just a dude.


----------



## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

Seahawks said:


> Any tips on getting the constant highlight real of the affair out of your mind? I don't think time will do this as it seems that you have to make a conscience effort somehow to block it out.


I agree with Chris and others that it won't go away. You do learn to deal with it. It also might be part of the reason people decide to D many months after trying to R. I grew tired of thinking about it, and allowed it to part of my emotional detachment.

Here is something else to ponder. Your view of sex was like mine, something special, unique, sacred, emotionally tied to the act, etc. I think WS thinking is often detached from reality, not unique, not emotionally tied to the act, etc.

When I learned about the PA (d-day), sex changed into physical gratification only, and lost the emotional connection. It almost was like having prostitute sex with my wife (now exWW). Not that I have ever had actual paid sex, but you can probably relate to the concept. I remember thinking about how she must have compared us. I remember trying to be better than him (OM).

When I began to have sex with my new wife, I remember how it was too. The first time felt like a performance. The second time felt like I was loved. Deeply loved. I remember getting wet eyes, trying not to show my emotion. It was so sweet to feel that again.

My point? It was not easy for me to "get over" the A. 

It was better to start fresh.


----------



## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Lovemytruck said:


> I agree with Chris and others that it won't go away. You do learn to deal with it. It also might be part of the reason people decide to D many months after trying to R. I grew tired of thinking about it, and allowed it to part of my emotional detachment.
> 
> Here is something else to ponder. Your view of sex was like mine, something special, unique, sacred, emotionally tied to the act, etc. I think WS thinking is often detached from reality, not unique, not emotionally tied to the act, etc.
> 
> ...


Wow. Great post. Nailed it.


----------



## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

Why thank you! 

I am sure it is common for many of us.


----------



## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

Seahawks,

Just wondering what is going on in your mind after reading these posts. Wondering what your game plan is after bouncing your feelings off of TAM.

I re-read your OP. The real question is do you want to move to a divorce? Do you feel that you are no longer justified to D since it has been over a year and a half?

Something is brewing, or you would not have posted.

It takes courage to decide to D. It also grinds on you to R, especially if you think it is not worth the long term rewards.

No pressure to choose. It seems that you are moving in that direction based on your comments.


----------



## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Seahawks said:


> Any tips on getting the constant highlight real of the affair out of your mind? I don't think time will do this as it seems that you have to make a conscience effort somehow to block it out.


Yes, divorce her. Those images fade in frequency and intensity MUCH faster and more completely than if you stay with her cheating ass.

That's what worked for me, anyway.


----------



## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Lovemytruck said:


> I
> When I began to have sex with my new wife, I remember how it was too. The first time felt like a performance. The second time felt like I was loved. Deeply loved. I remember getting wet eyes, trying not to show my emotion. It was so sweet to feel that again.


Deep. I hope to feel truly loved again, like that. Can't really imagine it right now. My stbxww still tells me almost everyday how much she loves me, misses me, etc. She asked me to take her back last Sunday. I looked right at her and said no.


----------



## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

Healer said:


> Deep. I hope to feel truly loved again, like that. Can't really imagine it right now. My stbxww still tells me almost everyday how much she loves me, misses me, etc. She asked me to take her back last Sunday. I looked right at her and said no.


Sorry your are in a tough spot Healer. I hesitate to post some of the positive things of D and a new marriage. Don't want to harm people working toward a successful R, and I hate to make it worse for those suffering. There is a small part of me that doesn't want to jinx myself either. 

My thinking is that when we marry in our early years is is usually based a little on hormonal influences. We want the hot wife, the kids, the dream. When we are going through the dating in our middle years we have wisdom, experience, gratitude, and our minds are likely to be less influenced by lust.

Second marriages are often challenging due to expectations, parenting styles, money, etc., BUT it does feel so WONDERFUL to know that you are loved and appreciated. At least you have a new start. Many subsequent marriages fail. Time will tell. All of our choices have risks. My choice feels like a much better risk.


----------



## Seahawks (Jun 26, 2013)

LoveMyTruck,

I have been thinking alot about your post asking what I am thinking after the posts of advice against my situation. Quite frankly I will still tell you I am in Limbo. I have taken a few steps that are helping me as an individual. For example, I read the "No More Mr. Nice Guy" book and have identified many of the traits that I need to change in myself as well as the reasons I am a people pleaser. I have begun to put myself and my needs first on many occasions. This has helped me feel better about myself and has been a bit of a distraction to the pain. However, when my mind is idol I still have a very difficult time with things. I don't think divorcing will help the situation and will most likely give me more heartache being away from my kids....however, I do have many issues with staying married as well.....it is very hard for me to say "I Love You" to my wife.....I have also given her things that I want out of our relationship (demands) and although she acknowledges them and we have discussions about them she doesn't do them which is very frustrations. Overall a bit dysfunctional to say the least but hoping things might change for the better once the kids go back to school. So overall I am trying to make myself a better person and work on myself. Not for my wife but for me. Again, I'm all over the board here but that is the state I am in......LIMBO!


----------



## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

By staying in limbo, are you really truly serving your children as a healthy father? You are miserable, and after a time the misery will break you down and deteriorate your soul. Your children will see this. We know you are scared to make a move for the thought a divorce would separate you from your kids, and it is true your time with them would be lessened; but kids are resilient and they will adjust to it -- if divorce is the road you decide to go down. 

There is absolutely no reason to allow fear to stop you from doing what you feel you need to do to restore your self esteem and self worth.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------

