# FDR and Eleanor Roosevelt were madhatters



## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

*source*

He had his extramarital affairs, and she fell in love with a reporter named Lorena Hick, and they even had a room at the White House for Hick. Then later on, she cheated on Hick with a handsome young doctor named David Gurewitsch. Hick died 5½ years after Eleanor, with a broken heart and loneliness. She was cremated and later buried in an unmarked cemetery while the Roosevelts got the royal treatment. I didn't know about any of this until today.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

FWIW, you can probably add the names of _nearly_ every President and First Lady since Washington to this list.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

From what I heard, Kennedy had orgies in the white house when Jackie was away. 

The difference between then and now is that in the past, the press kept personal things out of the news.


----------



## BradWesley2 (Jul 15, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> From what I heard, Kennedy had orgies in the white house when Jackie was away.
> 
> The difference between then and now is that in the past, the press kept personal things out of the news.


Spot on Ele. JFK had his friends, and Jackie had hers. Jack had his ladies and jock friends, while Jackie had her artsy fartsy friends. The two were never mixed.

Infamous date in history 5/19/1962. This is the date that Marilyn Monroe sang her famous rendition of Happy Birthday Mr. President, and melted the microphone, not to mention heads exploding in Washington DC.

Thus was the beginning of the end of Camelot.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

ER did not have a physical relationship with Dr. Gruewitsch, they were good friends apparently. He was married, 18 yrs younger and said to be handsome. His widow wrote a book about their friendship. 

Her relationship with the journalist lady faded out after Roosevelt's death and before the entrance of the doctor, I believe. Hick had many problems not the lest of which was drink, bourbon to be exact. 

It is more likely that the breakdown in her relationship with Eleanor was due her alcoholism. It wasn't the heart but the liver that broke. it's not as romantic. 

Edna P. Gurewitsch, "Kindred Souls: The Friendship of Eleanor Roosevelt and David Gurewitsch".


----------



## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

Catherine602 said:


> ER did not have a physical relationship with Dr. Gruewitsch, they were good friends apparently. He was married, 18 yrs younger and said to be handsome. His widow wrote a book about their friendship.
> 
> Her relationship with the journalist lady faded out after Roosevelt's death and before the entrance of the good doctor, I believe.
> 
> Edna P. Gurewitsch, "Kindred Souls: The Friendship of Eleanor Roosevelt and David Gurewitsch".


Eleanor wrote to Hick


> ‘All day I’ve thought of you . . . Oh! I want to put my arms around you, I ache to hold you close.’


Then, she later wrote this to Gurewitsch:


> “I love you as . . . I have never loved anyone else,”


If her words are to be believed, she loved Gurewitsch even more than she loved Hick. Are we TAMers to believe that Gurewitsch's wife's words are trusthworthy as the betrayed spouse?


----------



## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> FWIW, you can probably add the names of _nearly_ every President and First Lady since Washington to this list.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


George & Barbara Bush?
George & Laura Bush?
Ronald & Nancy Reagan?


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

becareful2 said:


> George & Barbara Bush?
> George & Laura Bush?
> Ronald & Nancy Reagan?


You'll note my use of the word "nearly".

Still, it wouldn't exactly shock me to learn that one or both of each of those couples had been unfaithful.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> You'll note my use of the word "nearly".
> 
> Still, it wouldn't exactly shock me to learn that one or both of each of those couples had been unfaithful.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nancy Reagan was suspected to have had occasional affairs over the years.


----------



## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

becareful2 said:


> George & Barbara Bush?
> George & Laura Bush?
> Ronald & Nancy Reagan?


Ronald Reagan – divorced the mother of two of his children (who had been married twice before), to marry Nancy Reagan who bore him a daughter only 7 months after their marriage. IMO, if Ron didn't have any affairs on Nancy while in office, it's because when an OW marries her married man she KNOWS what he is capable of and she isolates and controls the heck out of him to pretend all the pain was worth it. 

George H.W. Bush and Jennifer Fitzgerald - Bush met Fitzgerald when she became his personal assistant in 1974. He was serving as special envoy to China at the time, but Fitzgerald stayed on, following Bush Sr. to his post at the C.I.A. and as Ronald Reagan's vice president. According to former U.S. diplomat Louis Fields, Bush and Fitzgerald shared a private cottage in Switzerland during an official visit in 1984 (all the while, Barbara Bush was out promoting her book C. Fred's Story, about the Bush family dog). 

George W. Bush is rumored to have had relationships with prostitutes and homosexual affairs back in his wild booze and partying days early in their marriage. Laura was set to leave him unless he sobered up. He was rumored to have had an affair with Condoleezza Rice while in the White House.

Jimmy Carter might be the best recent example of a clean ex-president. Southern Baptist peanut farmer surely wasn't an adulterer. Though in a Playboy interview he admitted to having had lusted many times and thereby committed adultery of the heart. A quote - Jimmy Carter "I try not to commit a deliberate sin. I recognize that I'm going to do it anyhow, because I'm human and I'm tempted. And Christ set some almost impossible standards for us. Christ said, 'I tell you that anyone who looks on a woman with lust has in his heart already committed adultery.'"I've looked on a lot of women with lust. I've committed adultery in my heart many times. This is something that God recognizes I will do--and I have done it--and God forgives me for it."


----------



## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

The Heats on in Warm Springs...

FDR maintained a room at the "Little White House" for his AP Lucy Page Mercer Rutherfurd. She was hired by Eleanor as FDR personal "social secretary" some 30 years before his death in Warm Springs. Eleanor was well aware of the long going affair. 

If you tour the Little White House in Warm Springs, the NPS explains how FDR could "wheel" himself out of his room onto the back porch straight over to Lucy's room 20 feet away. She was present when he passed in 48.


----------



## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

These couples essentially had open marriages. The husband did his thing while the wife did her thing. I wonder how they dealt with the hurt and pain, or maybe they just learned to compartmentalize. Yikes!


----------



## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

bandit.45 said:


> Nancy Reagan was suspected to have had occasional affairs over the years.


I wonder if Ronald ever had an affair with Margaret Thatcher...
In one of his love letters to Nancy, he said he misses her (Nancy) when she would leave the room.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Of the presidents after WWII, Harry S. Truman didn't cheat. He seemed to love his wife Bess deeply.


----------



## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

I guarantee James Buchanan had no affairs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

becareful2 said:


> Eleanor wrote to Hick
> 
> 
> Then, she later wrote this to Gurewitsch:
> ...


Mrs Gurewitsch admits to being jealous of the friendship in the book but she seems to believe that it was enriching to both her husband and Eleanor. She was a second wife to the Dr. They met and married while he was friends with Eleanor and she became a close friend too. 

ER personal life was challenging at the time of the friendship. Her grown children were needy and constantly calling on her for help and she maintained a grueling schedule of work and travel.


----------



## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

If I recall from last year's Ken Burns' Roosevelts documentary, Eleanor knew that FDR had his long time mistress, seemed to care very little about it, and she had her own close relationships (romantic? Maybe maybe not)

Certainly not a traditional marriage. 

Outside of their personal lives I admire both of them very much
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

Catherine602 said:


> Mrs Gurewitsch admits to being jealous of the friendship in the book but she seems to believe that it was enriching to both her husband and Eleanor. She was a second wife to the Dr. They met and married while he was friends with Eleanor and she became a close friend too.
> 
> *ER personal life was challenging at the time of the friendship. Her grown children were needy and constantly calling on her for help and she maintained a grueling schedule of work and travel.*


Sounds like a perfect recipe for an emotional affair at the very least. Mrs. Gurewitsch words aren't very reassuring that there wasn't anything going on between ER & her husband. We often tell the BS to trust their gut instincts because often times, their gut instincts are right. She just didn't have evidence like texting and VARs to prove her doubts.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

PhillyGuy13 said:


> If I recall from last year's Ken Burns' Roosevelts documentary, Eleanor knew that FDR had his long time mistress, s*eemed to care very little about it, *and she had her own close relationships (romantic? Maybe maybe not)
> 
> Certainly not a traditional marriage.
> 
> ...


Until he died. Eleanor was not with FDR when he passed. His mistress was with him, along with Eleanor's and FDR's oldest daughter. Eleanor reportedly felt betrayed by her daughter for facilitating the mistress being at FDR's death-bed instead of her, and it drove a wedge between mother and daughter for the rest of Eleanor's life.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

British royalty have basically open marriages too don't they? A half century and more ago it was just assumed that was the way it would be - the people who lived those lifestyles assumed it would happen, so they didn't feel betrayal at all when it happened.


----------



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

becareful2 said:


> These couples essentially had open marriages. The husband did his thing while the wife did her thing. I wonder how they dealt with the hurt and pain, or maybe they just learned to compartmentalize. Yikes!


I think it's probably quite common in U.S. politics. A lot of these people stay together for the optics, long after a 'normal' marriage would have ended in divorce. The illusion of a strong marriage creates an air of likability, whereas a failed marriage/divorce shows bad decision making, among other things. A future president requires people to think he or she is infallible, especially when it comes to family life.

Do we all really think a woman such as Hillary would have stuck with Bill all these years if he weren't a former President, and she herself taking a run at office?


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

alexm said:


> I think it's probably quite common in U.S. politics. A lot of these people stay together for the optics, long after a 'normal' marriage would have ended in divorce. The illusion of a strong marriage creates an air of likability, whereas a failed marriage/divorce shows bad decision making, among other things. A future president requires people to think he or she is infallible, especially when it comes to family life.
> 
> Do we all really think a woman such as Hillary would have stuck with Bill all these years if he weren't a former President, and she herself taking a run at office?


If she does become president I wonder how she and Bill will sleep? I doubt highly they sleep together. Tongues will wag if they don't sleep together at the white house. It is a marriage of convenience, a business arrangement.


----------



## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

becareful2 said:


> Eleanor wrote to Hick
> 
> 
> Then, she later wrote this to Gurewitsch:
> ...


You've got to be careful when comparing current speech with the past.

Reading biographical letters from the past, people talked said thinks that seem very out of place today.

Letters from Alexander Hamilton to a male friend would certainly imply a homosexual relationship today, but probably meant nothing of the sort then. 

Reading how Teddy Roosevelt wrote his mother about how much he missed her "petting" him. Again, weird now, not then.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

@Buddy400. That is so true. Social norms are not often factored into interpretations of historical events.

Lincoln and his friend sleep in the same bed when they could not afford separate rooms. Historians hint at a sexual relationship. I believe I read that it was not unusual for men who could not afford otherwise to share a bed if only one was available.


----------



## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> @Buddy400. That is so true. Social norms are not often factored into interpretations of historical events.
> 
> Lincoln and his friend sleep in the same bed when they could not afford separate rooms. Historians hint at a sexual relationship. I believe I read that it was not unusual for men who could not afford otherwise to share if only one bed was available.


It actually wasn't uncommon for even the well-to-do to share a bed, or at minimum a room. Privacy, as we think of it, is a rather modern notion that dates back to the Victorian era and grew - quite slowly - from there. The poorer classes knew nothing of private individual sleeping arrangements even at home. Even among the wealthy, it was common, when traveling or visiting, for an entire family to share a single room containing one or more beds. All the single girls in a house party would share a room or rooms, sleeping together in beds or on cots or on the floor, as space was available. The single gentlemen would also have similar "bunk room" arrangements. Only the wealthy would have thought to expect a private bedroom at an inn, everyone else generally got space in a communal sleeping chamber shared with other guests of the same sex. 

In the not too distant past, even having a bed was a great luxury. Until into the 20th century, no one would have given any thought at all to two male friends sharing a room or bed while traveling.


----------

