# Help please - dating after divorce and boyfriend is pushing me to have sex



## Threeblessings

Sorry if this is not the correct forum for my issue.

I've been seeing someone for about 2 months. This man tells me and shows me that he loves me all the time. However, he is also pushing me to have sex and I am not ready to even go there......Although I was separated for 2 and a half years and then divorced some weeks ago my faith tells me I should not do this outside of marriage. I will not lie, the temptation has reared itself many times and I fear giving into him and then regretting it forever. 

I don't know what to do .:crying:


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## ConanHub

What are your beliefs?

His?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Vega

Threeblessings said:


> Sorry if this is not the correct forum for my issue.
> 
> I've been seeing someone for about 2 months. This man tells me and shows me that he loves me all the time. However, he is also pushing me to have sex and I am not ready to even go there......Although I was separated for 2 and a half years and then divorced some weeks ago my faith tells me I should not do this outside of marriage. I will not lie, the temptation has reared itself many times and I fear giving into him and then regretting it forever.
> 
> I don't know what to do .:crying:


He "loves" you after ONLY 2 months of _dating_????? 
He's pushing you to have sex yet claims to "love" you????

Not a good situation no matter WHAT your faith is.

Tell him you're not ready. Period. End. Of. Story. If he continues to pressure you, or tries to argue with you about it, END IT!


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## Threeblessings

ConanHub said:


> What are your beliefs?
> 
> His?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Me: I am a Christian and go to Church regularly. I believe that sex is something that should not occur outside of marriage. Surely, it is not possible for this to be outdated??? I like him a lot but I am not in love with him yet. 

Him: Says he is a Christian, prays and has been to Church with me once. He used to go a lot as a child. His view of sex is that - we shouldn't resist it or fight it??? And he says if we do it then I may fall in love with him????


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## Threeblessings

Vega said:


> He "loves" you after ONLY 2 months of _dating_?????
> He's pushing you to have sex yet claims to "love" you????
> 
> Not a good situation no matter WHAT your faith is.
> 
> Tell him you're not ready. Period. End. Of. Story. If he continues to pressure you, or tries to argue with you about it, END IT!


Vega, he said it was love at first sight??? He texts me sweet 'I love you' messages all the time. Sometimes he also sends cute picture quotes. He mentioned before that his hormones are racing around his body....is that too much information?


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## Vega

Threeblessings said:


> Me: I am a Christian and go to Church regularly. I believe that sex is something that should not occur outside of marriage. Surely, it is not possible for this to be outdated??? I like him a lot but I am not in love with him yet.
> 
> Him: Says he is a Christian, prays and has been to Church with me once. He used to go a lot as a child. His view of sex is that - we shouldn't resist it or fight it??? And he says if we do it then I may fall in love with him????


If this "CHRISTIAN 'man"' is pressuring you to have sex before marriage, please direct him to the passages in the bible that forbid fornication. The bible isn't "outdated". 

Having sex with him before marriage won't guarantee that you'll fall in love with him. He's trying to manipulate you. 

He is immature, not a true Christian, manipulative and I'm even questioning if he's TRULY "in love" with you. 

The fact that you're NOT in love with him is telling.

I think God may be trying to save you from a big mistake...LISTEN!


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## WorkingOnMe

I think that you should be with someone who wants to proceed on your timetable. And I think that he should be with someone who wants to proceed on his timetable. As far as I can tell, these aren't lining up, so you're not a match.


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## Vega

Threeblessings said:


> Vega, he said it was love at first sight??? He texts me sweet 'I love you' messages all the time. Sometimes he also sends cute picture quotes. ?


Umm...more like LUST at first sight. Personally, I don't believe in love at first sight. Love takes time to grow. After only 2 months of dating, you both BARELY know each other.



> He mentioned before that his hormones are racing around his body....is that too much information


I'm sorry to say but there are a lot of immature men out there who will drop the "love" word EARLY in a relationship as a tactic to get you to sleep with them. The fact that he's pressuring you KNOWING that you don't feel the same way about him is very telling. 

IMHO, the guy is using "love" to get sex. 

I stand by my original post.


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## jorgegene

Sounds like the proverbial 'wolf in sheeps clothing'.

And as far as 'love'; real love doesn't come in two months.


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## kaybenn

Vega said:


> He "loves" you after ONLY 2 months of _dating_?????
> He's pushing you to have sex yet claims to "love" you????
> 
> Not a good situation no matter WHAT your faith is.
> 
> Tell him you're not ready. Period. End. Of. Story. If he continues to pressure you, or tries to argue with you about it, END IT!


Vega is quite right. Remember God's promises to be with us as we trust Him through thick and thin. I doubt that he 'loves you' if he is pressuring you so much. Suggest to him to talk to your pastor about his proposal and see what the pastor says. Be careful.


Threeblessings said:


> Vega, he said it was love at first sight??? He texts me sweet 'I love you' messages all the time. Sometimes he also sends cute picture quotes. He mentioned before that his hormones are racing around his body....is that too much information?



Sent from my Nexus 5


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## ConanHub

Love isn't lust.

He isn't a Christian, in practice at least.

Actually, he simply isn't what he says he is.

You will know a tree by it's fruit and you cannot serve two masters.

If he served Jesus he wouldn't be trying to get in your pants. He would be trying to get in your heart and eventually marry you.

Sorry but this is a large incompatibility and you shouldn't be pressured into giving up your faith.

Maybe you would fall in love with him if he were conducting a Christian pursuit of you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Threeblessings

ConanHub said:


> Love isn't lust.
> 
> He isn't a Christian, in practice at least.
> 
> Actually, he simply isn't what he says he is.
> 
> You will know a tree by it's fruit and you cannot serve two masters.
> 
> If he served Jesus he wouldn't be trying to get in your pants. He would be trying to get in your heart and eventually marry you.
> 
> Sorry but this is a large incompatibility and you shouldn't be pressured into giving up your faith.
> 
> Maybe you would fall in love with him if he were conducting a Christian pursuit of you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He tells me often that he wants to marry me. I have told him since posting this that if the pushing and pressure continue it will be over. He said that he doesn't want to lose me and he will respect me????


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## ConanHub

Threeblessings said:


> He tells me often that he wants to marry me. I have told him since posting this that if the pushing and pressure continue it will be over. He said that he doesn't want to lose me and he will respect me????


Well maybe he can start going to church and hanging out with your peers and reading his bible and engaging in other Christian activities while plugging in to your church community.

How old are your children BTW?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## john117

Let me play Devil's Advocate...

- did you do likewise in your marriage? That is, wait.

- who initiated the divorce? Why?

I do not find it unreasonable to have sex two months into a relationship. Nor do I find "love at first sight" to be an alien concept.
.
It seems to me he's pursuing you and hasn't given up yet despite the Wall. He should be commended and not chastised.

Bottom line, be honest with yourself and him.


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## GusPolinski

Two months and he's super duper in love w/ you and wants to get married?

He's all about church and Jesus, yet he's only been to church w/ you _once_?

Doesn't really pass the sniff test.

Oh... wait. He's just trying to get into your pants.

Makes perfect sense now.

Always be true to you.

Dump this guy.


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## *Deidre*

Vega said:


> Umm...more like LUST at first sight. Personally, I don't believe in love at first sight. Love takes time to grow. After only 2 months of dating, you both BARELY know each other.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry to say but there are a lot of immature men out there who will drop the "love" word EARLY in a relationship as a tactic to get you to sleep with them. The fact that he's pressuring you KNOWING that you don't feel the same way about him is very telling.
> 
> IMHO, the guy is using "love" to get sex.
> 
> I stand by my original post.


This x 1000


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## Vega

Threeblessings said:


> He tells me often that he wants to marry me. I have told him since posting this that if the pushing and pressure continue it will be over. He said that *he doesn't want to lose me and he will respect me*????


Oh yeah? For how long? 

Is he going to find someone else to have (unprotected?) sex with while "respecting" you?


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## Threeblessings

ConanHub said:


> Well maybe he can start going to church and hanging out with your peers and reading his bible and engaging in other Christian activities while plugging in to your church community.
> 
> How old are your children BTW?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


They are 12, 8 and 5.


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## Threeblessings

Vega said:


> Oh yeah? For how long?
> 
> Is he going to find someone else to have (unprotected?) sex with while "respecting" you?


I am certain he would not do this.


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## WorkingOnMe

john117 said:


> I do not find it unreasonable to have sex two months into a relationship. Nor do I find "love at first sight" to be an alien concept.


Me neither. but then I'm not Christian. I don't think there's anything wrong with his pursuit, other than it's not what she wants. I always get a little confused by Christians in a situation like this leaning on their religion to justify doing what they want to do. Doesn't Luke 16:18 bar her from remarrying or having sex with a new husband anyway? Doesn't really matter I guess. People will always interpret the way they want and ignore the rest.


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## Threeblessings

john117 said:


> Let me play Devil's Advocate...
> 
> - did you do likewise in your marriage? That is, wait.
> 
> - who initiated the divorce? Why?
> 
> I do not find it unreasonable to have sex two months into a relationship. Nor do I find "love at first sight" to be an alien concept.
> .
> It seems to me he's pursuing you and hasn't given up yet despite the Wall. He should be commended and not chastised.
> 
> Bottom line, be honest with yourself and him.


I did not, I gave into temptation and my ex-husbands pressure at the time. So I don't want to repeat the same mistake. I left my husband and divorced him because he is a cheater, compulsive liar and a narcissist. He is pursuing me and knows that I have a wall around my heart.


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## Vega

WorkingOnMe said:


> Me neither. but then I'm not Christian. I don't think there's anything wrong with his pursuit, other than it's not what she wants. I always get a little confused by Christians in a situation like this leaning on their religion to justify doing what they want to do. *Doesn't Luke 16:18 bar her from remarrying or having sex with a new husband anyway?* Doesn't really matter I guess. People will always interpret the way they want and ignore the rest.


Not if adultery is involved or if the marriage is otherwise deemed to be "unlawful". Matthew 5:32


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## *Deidre*

Threeblessings said:


> I did not, I gave into temptation and my ex-husbands pressure at the time. So I don't want to repeat the same mistake. I left my husband and divorced him because he is a cheater, compulsive liar and a narcissist. He is pursuing me and knows that I have a wall around my heart.


A good sign to tell if someone truly loves you, is if he/she respects your values. He/she doesn't just say 'I will respect you,' and then continues to push the envelope. Judge actions, not words...especially in the beginning stages of a relationship. Praying that you remain true to you and your values.


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## Threeblessings

Vega said:


> Not if adultery is involved or if the marriage is otherwise deemed to be "unlawful". Matthew 5:32


My ex-husband committed adultery twice that I have proof of.


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## GuyInColorado

Just make sure you're honest with this guy... no sex until marriage. If I was him, I'd move on. Was your sex life awesome when married before your ex cheated? Do you and your new boyfriend do more than kiss? Sounds like you aren't into sex, which is nothing bad.


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## Threeblessings

GuyInColorado said:


> Just make sure you're honest with this guy... no sex until marriage. If I was him, I'd move on. Sounds like you aren't into sex.


Because I am not ready to 'jump in bed' it doesn't mean that I am not into sex. What has that got to do with it? There is a right time and a wrong time. We grew up differently and in previous relationships, he had sex early on with those girls.


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## jdesey

I guess I have a different view. What's the big deal. If you want to have sex with him then do it. Why do we have to make such a big deal over it. What if you wait. Get married and the sexual chemistry isn't there. Then what.


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## ConanHub

WorkingOnMe said:


> Me neither. but then I'm not Christian. I don't think there's anything wrong with his pursuit, other than it's not what she wants. I always get a little confused by Christians in a situation like this leaning on their religion to justify doing what they want to do. Doesn't Luke 16:18 bar her from remarrying or having sex with a new husband anyway? Doesn't really matter I guess. People will always interpret the way they want and ignore the rest.


I'm a well versed theologian if you want a discussion about divorce and remarriage.

Been doing it a while. I don't cherry pick scriptures either but the conversation would probably be pointless because you aren't a Christian anyway.

Different sets of rules.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Threeblessings

jdesey said:


> I guess I have a different view. What's the big deal. If you want to have sex with him then do it. Why do we have to make such a big deal over it. What if you wait. Get married and the sexual chemistry isn't there. Then what.


At least, I would be doing it right second time around if I did get married. Regardless of chemistry for me it comes down to morals and values.


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## ConanHub

GuyInColorado said:


> Just make sure you're honest with this guy... no sex until marriage. If I was him, I'd move on. Was your sex life awesome when married before your ex cheated? Do you and your new boyfriend do more than kiss? Sounds like you aren't into sex, which is nothing bad.


Don't be a dumb ass.

I have the same belief system and I'm extremely HD.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Vega

GuyInColorado said:


> Just make sure you're honest with this guy... no sex until marriage. If I was him, I'd move on. Was your sex life awesome when married before your ex cheated? Do you and your new boyfriend do more than kiss? Sounds like you aren't into sex, which is nothing bad.


Maybe she's just not into sex too soon with the wrong person for the wrong reasons.


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## WorkingOnMe

Vega said:


> Not if adultery is involved or if the marriage is otherwise deemed to be "unlawful". Matthew 5:32


Isn't there a lot of debate over whether Matthew meant adultery per se, or fornication?


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## Anon Pink

Arent there many different brands of Christianity? Isn't being Christian boiled down to the belief that Jesus Christ was the son of God, performed miracles, was crucified and died, then came back to life and did some more miracles and now is one with God? If a person believes all that then they are Christian. Not all Christians take the bible as the literal revealed word of God.

Having stated all that, the sex part isn't the issue here. This guy is saying I love you all over the place no matter how his declarations make you feel. Are you feeling guilty that you don't love him back? This is like being bullied. He keeps telling you how he feels and that pressures you into making a return investment. I would think that adults would understand that pressuring someone to love you back is kinda stalkerish and creepy.

The sex....your values dictate you should not be having sex outside of marriage. And this guy is pressuring you to go against your values. A decent man would either support, though uncomfortably, your stated values or he would move on. Your guy is doing neither.

I suggest you move on. He is not very respectful of your deepest values.

Lust isn't love, but love can become boring without lust. Neither lust nor love last in a vacuum. But if you have love you can work on lust when oust fades. But if you've never had lust....the love part doesn't really matter.

ETA: you have young kids. Beware the hard sell romantic interest. Child predators just love single mothers who they can manipulate and your guy is working you hard. I repeat, you should move on.


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## Celes

I'm Christian. I also believe God has way bigger things to worry about than who we have sex with (so long as we're not hurting anyone). 

Sounds like the two of you aren't compatible. I'd hardly say he's the bad guy some people are making him out to be. Most men aren't going to stick around with no sex before marriage, especially when the woman is already divorced. Better to find a guy who's just as religious as you are.


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## Evinrude58

Anon Pink said:


> Arent there many different brands of Christianity? Isn't being Christian boiled down to the belief that Jesus Christ was the son of God, performed miracles, was crucified and died, then came back to life and did some more miracles and now is one with God? If a person believes all that then they are Christian. Not all Christians take the bible as the literal revealed word of God.
> 
> Having stated all that, the sex part isn't the issue here. This guy is saying I love you all over the place no matter how his declarations make you feel. Are you feeling guilty that you don't love him back? This is like being bullied. He keeps telling you how he feels and that pressures you into making a return investment. I would think that adults would understand that pressuring someone to love you back is kinda stalkerish and creepy.
> 
> The sex....your values dictate you should not be having sex outside of marriage. And this guy is pressuring you to go against your values. A decent man would either support, though uncomfortably, your stated values or he would move on. Your guy is doing neither.
> 
> I suggest you move on. He is not very respectful of your deepest values.
> 
> Lust isn't love, but love can become boring without lust. Neither lust nor love last in a vacuum. But if you have love you can work on lust when oust fades. But if you've never had lust....the love part doesn't really matter.
> 
> ETA: you have young kids. Beware the hard sell romantic interest. Child predators just love single mothers who they can manipulate and your guy is working you hard. I repeat, you should move on.


Huh? Suddenly a guy is a likely child predator if he tells his girlfriend of two months he wants to marry her, loves her, and wants some sex?
I don't agree. 

She's not going to wait for marriage to have sex. She's just not that into the guy. Just my thoughts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Evinrude58

Celes said:


> I'm Christian. I also believe God has way bigger things to worry about than who we have sex with (so long as we're not hurting anyone).
> 
> Sounds like the two of you aren't compatible. I'd hardly say he's the bad guy some people are making him out to be. Most men aren't going to stick around with no sex before marriage, especially when the woman is already divorced. Better to find a guy who's just as religious as you are.


God DOES worry about this. He makes it quite clear. I'm guilty of having premarital sex. Doesn't mean I'm not ashamed of my behavior and can't admit it's wrong. It is. I know it is. God isn't pleased. How can one claim to be a Christian and twist things so easily to make what we want, ok?
She's soinf the right thing. She very well could "fall in love" if they start having sex. Which is why she shouldn't. I really think she should dump him. She obviously wants someone to go to church with her. This guy isn't the one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Threeblessings

Evinrude58 said:


> Huh? Suddenly a guy is a likely child predator if he tells his girlfriend of two months he wants to marry her, loves her, and wants some sex?
> I don't agree.
> 
> She's not going to wait for marriage to have sex. She's just not that into the guy. Just my thoughts.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He is definitely not a child predator. I prefer to and will try very hard to not have sex outside of marriage again. This happened with my ex-husband!


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## Threeblessings

Evinrude58 said:


> God DOES worry about this. He makes it quite clear. I'm guilty of having premarital sex. Doesn't mean I'm not ashamed of my behavior and can't admit it's wrong. It is. I know it is. God isn't pleased. How can one claim to be a Christian and twist things so easily to make what we want, ok?
> She's soinf the right thing. She very well could "fall in love" if they start having sex. Which is why she shouldn't. I really think she should dump him. She obviously wants someone to go to church with her. This guy isn't the one.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's not just about going to Church. I am also guilty of premarital sex, with my ex-husband actually. I don't want to repeat this behaviour. I think it's possible for love to grow though.


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## Threeblessings

Celes said:


> I'm Christian. I also believe God has way bigger things to worry about than who we have sex with (so long as we're not hurting anyone).
> 
> Sounds like the two of you aren't compatible. I'd hardly say he's the bad guy some people are making him out to be. Most men aren't going to stick around with no sex before marriage, especially when the woman is already divorced. Better to find a guy who's just as religious as you are.


I think you are trying to justify the act but really the Bible is explicit and nowhere in it does it say it's fine to have sex with whoever as long as we're not hurting anyone. Maybe not most, but a man who really, really loves a woman will respect her enough to wait.


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## Celes

Evinrude58 said:


> How can one claim to be a Christian and twist things so easily to make what we want, ok?


I don't take the Bible 100% literally and realize it was written thousands of years ago, by various men, with various translations and meaning lost, and under various circumstances. According to the Bible, it's also sinful to eat shelfish and women shouldn't speak in church. There are tons of silly rules in the Bible that no one follows. Those rules are broken all the time but we don't beat ourselves up over it the same way some people do about sex.


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## Celes

Threeblessings said:


> I think you are trying to justify the act but really the Bible is explicit and nowhere in it does it say it's fine to have sex with whoever as long as we're not hurting anyone. Maybe not most, but a man who really, really loves a woman will respect her enough to wait.


It has nothing to do with how much a man loves you. He might love you but your values are just not compatible. Seek out men whose values are in line with your own.


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## RClawson

I was brought up in a very religious home and taught that premarital sex was the wrong path. When I met my wife the chemistry was incredible and the biology was overwhelming at times but we waited. I did learn over time that two people do not have to be physically intimate in order to build intimacy and yes you can know if you are physically compatible without actually having sex if you truly have a clue.

Stick to you beliefs and tell him to give up his relentless pursuit now or move on.


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## Evinrude58

I'm in hopes that some of the things in the Bible that don't make a lot of sense are due to poor translation or the fact that our minds are pretty simple compared to the creator's.

I think the things about sex are for a reason. Just like no pig eating was for the reason of parasites in the meat. The Jews had no idea why, just that it was against the rules.

Anyway, I didn't mean to make it sound like you're not a Christian, just that it seems like folks are willing to do whatever and justify it these days. Not necessarily your comment. I think I'm kinda sore about this subject due to all the incidents with my ex. She always was such a Bible thumper and twisted things around to fit her wants.
I'm not a great example. But I know it. Always trying to improve.
We all will have some rough explaining to do one day if we don't have Jesus to stand beside us when God stands in judgement of our list of misdeeds, to say, "skip that Dad--- he's with me. I've taken care of all that."

OP, you are doing right and I hope you can keep it up. It's tough. I feel like when i meet a person and really fall for them, it's a super difficult task to not get physical. I think in this case, He's not right for you and you know it. Besides that you know you shouldn't.
Sex pretty much is totally unfulfilling if you don't love the person, anyway.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Holland

How long do you think is a good amount of time to get to know someone before marriage, especially a second marriage? Keep in mind second marriages are more likely to end in divorce than first.

IMHO it is prudent to invest at least 3 or more years into a relationship before getting married for the second time particularly when children are involved. Do you expect a man to wait 3 or more years before having sex?


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## Satya

I'm going to put specific faith/religion to one side for a moment and focus on your personal value system. It may be faith-based, but I see it as something separate. 

There's nothing inherently wrong with this man wanting to have sex with you. 

But, he is wrong FOR you, because your value system doesn't accept sex before marriage. Your religion may frown upon it, but nothing/no one but you decides what you will or won't do. There is nothing inherently wrong in wanting to abstain from sex before marriage. 

One of the things I emphasize strongly to women and men of this forum, is to NEVER compromise on their core personal values or on those "must haves" in a potential partner. If there are "less important" values you can live without, that's another thing.

So, I think you are sure this is very important to you. Hold onto that value steadfastly. 

In my personal experience, which has included both deep love and a more lusty desire, there has always been a marked difference in the feelings, timetables of events, and after-effects.

The first (deep love) is patient, it develops like a bulb, it has a way of proceeding to the next stage at exactly the right time for me, and I have never had reason to regret it or feel it has used my resources to its advantage. It is something that took me a long time to learn about: that I need to be firm in my boundaries and values if I was to obtain it. Once I lived in the way that I needed to (requiring saying no to many things and NEVER compromising on my "must haves"), I was able to achieve it. I call him my miracle. 

The second (lust/desire) is faster, impatient, exciting,fun. It's like a firework. It has little time or consideration for planning, for deep connection, unless it is something that can be maintained long term. Although I had a hard time admitting it to myself, it was exactly what I sought at times, even though it's not what I wanted or needed. It always burnt out quickly and I always felt a pang of hurt or regret after as the smoke cleared.

One might lead to another, or they may work a bit in tandem. Love has always had the upper hand in my experience. It's like the keeper.

In summary, let him go. Love takes more than a few months to fully blossom.


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## SimplyAmorous

Threeblessings said:


> At least, I would be doing it right second time around if I did get married. Regardless of chemistry for me it comes down to morals and values.


I want to share a story about my friend.. she felt strongly about this.. she got pregnant with her 1st son at age 19 - the guy was living with her & her mom... as soon as he found out -he was GONE.. her son (who I call our 6th son) never met his father.... Then she got pregnant a few yrs later to another guy...he married her.. but cheated on her in their own bed... she found pictures.... 

After this trauma... she was single for 15 yrs.. gave up on men.. She never thought she'd meet anyone, wasn't on her radar..... but she did !.. and this time around.. she vowed (even in her 40's) to not have sex until they were married.. this guy honored that ! For her.. she spoke about it.. she expressed how she never did it right.. and it ended badly.. so this time around.. she wanted to do it "the right way".... He understood this... given her history....

And through thick & thin...he has been there, proving what a good man she married... she had a bad accident.. could have lost her leg.. had to quit working.. her husband was there for her...it's beautiful to see. I feel, in situations like yours.. sharing what you have been through.. a good man will listen... see your heart and understand....if love is blossoming... 

They are both committed Christians so the values are there.. I know their relationship is so much MORE to them over Sex...

My husband waited years for me -when we met.. we did other things -just not sticking it in.. no oral..  I vowed at a young age... I wanted to wait for the man who gave me HIS ALL. I felt very strongly about this... if I was single today.. I can't say I would be this stringent.. but It would matter a great deal to me that we were in love and had a future planned.. not just words -trying to get me in bed...

@RClawson said:



> I was brought up in a very religious home and taught that premarital sex was the wrong path. When I met my wife the chemistry was incredible and the biology was overwhelming at times *but we waited. I did learn over time that two people do not have to be physically intimate in order to build intimacy and yes you can know if you are physically compatible without actually having sex if you truly have a clue.*
> 
> Stick to you beliefs and tell him to give up his relentless pursuit now or move on.


I love this post.. my experience also.. There should be growing "peace" about this man...a growing "comfort" and trust in what you & he share.. as the emotional intimacy grows....with actions behind his words... do things add up ? Why has he only gone to church with you one time ? Does he work on Sundays?

Granted.. the drive to want to be intimate can be all powerful... consuming.... I am not one to think a couple shouldn't be touching each other.... just have some boundaries is all.. I don't think a man should have to go home to cold showers as the months progress.. ...when a person is High drive.. this is very hard to contain..

I can see both sides really... but as a woman, wanting to make sure this is the REAL thing... not just words.. so he can make his move on you...so he can test drive you... ya know...

At the very least... you & he should be talking about Sex.. express to him how much it means to you in a relationship.. I imagine you miss it, badly.... you dream of it with the right man?

It's very important to be sexually compatible too.. if this guy has a fetish that will turn you off.. if you are low drive and he is very high.. this can cause undue suffering in the future as well..

I hope you & he can work this out.. If he's a Keeper.. he will respect you..and want you to be comfortable as this progresses towards a deeper intimacy..


----------



## thefam

My post is strictly from a BIBLE-BELIEVING Christian perspective, which is where OP appears to be coming from.

You should not compromise your value because the stakes are too high. Let him know exactly why and see how he reacts.

As for the church thing, maybe he's not going because he feels convicted about trying to talk you into sex. If he is a Christian he's not going to want to be in Church when he's doing something he knows he shouldn't be doing.

Personally I think he's probably too weak for any type of long-term relationship. He should be trying to protect your virtue, not smear it. He might be ok for a friend but not a good example for raising your children in a Christian home. You are really quite vulnerable right now and you need someone who won't take advantage of your vulnerability. 

My husband was weak too and he pressured me into sex before marriage. I was 18 and he was 22. He also said it was because he loved me and wanted to be intimate with me. His character is much stronger and more mature now and he feels he should have waited for my sake because I was a virgin. But he also feels he has more than made it up to me by being a wonderful husband, which he has been. Who knows, maybe if you stick to your values it will cause this guy to rethink his relationship with the Lord and build his character.


----------



## john117

How was sex while married? Did both of you have a fulfilling intimate life or, like the cases you read on TAM on a regular basis, upbringing or family experiences got in the way?

To him it's a matter of looking into the future - if there's no physical intimacy now he may interpret it as a harbinger of things to come post-marriage.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

I think you should be more honest with yourself and your boyfriend, who, by the way, sounds like a nice guy.

The problems with your first marriage had NOTHING to do with sex - you chose poorly for some reason. Maybe you were young, but I suspect you were naive. Your EXH is the one with "poor" morals - you believe he was a cheater and narcissists

NOW you are taking it out in this new boy and pretending like sex is the issue. That's dishonest in my book and equally bad as sex before marriage.

There is nothing wrong with a young man wanting to have you and be close to you and be infatuated with you. That's what this sounds like to me. Not lust - that's a load of crap - why wouldn't he be infatuated with you? You sound nice, and he obviously is able to see you in spite of three kids in the way!







(I have 5 so I suspect yours cling to mom and are definitely competing for attention)

So lighten up already and ask yourself if there is something else about your boyfriend that makes you concerned. If so, explore THAT and don't dwell on the sex. If not.. Then make sure you don't drive him away by something as temporal as sex.

I do think it's ok to wait a bit - but discuss timelines with him so you both can see if you value things the same way. He may be ok growing the relationship a few months but not waiting 6 months. That's ok and honest. You might feel at 3 months that you are ready. But DONT get into a silly situation where you marry too soon BECAUSE OF THE SEX! This is kind of crazy - so try to talk and see where a compromise exists that fits you guys value system.

He sounds like a winner. Don't let your prior marriage ruin this relationship


----------



## Vega

Holland said:


> Do you expect a man to wait 3 or more years before having sex?


The RIGHT man will...


----------



## naiveonedave

Exactly my thoughts @TheTruthHurts.

If I were to D or become a widower, I don't know that I would want to wait years to have sex. And I don't do casual sex.


----------



## TeddieG

Threeblessings said:


> Vega, he said it was love at first sight??? He texts me sweet 'I love you' messages all the time. Sometimes he also sends cute picture quotes. He mentioned before that his hormones are racing around his body....is that too much information?


He's in too big of a hurry. Red flag. I just ended a flirtation for the same reason.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

You're not exactly a virgin bride. If you can wait the years it will take to develop into a marriage, that says a lot about your drive. You implied in another post that intimacy was lacking in your marriage before your ex cheated. If your boyfriend was here I'd advise him to beware.


----------



## New_Beginnings

Says you'll fall in love if you don't resist, nope I'd end this new relationship. 

There's a few things that bother me. His persistence and with you sharing how strongly you feel to not have sex, using love to play with your emotional state. He's not being truthful, it's called lusting and if he loved you he would respect your wishes.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

Vega said:


> Holland said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you expect a man to wait 3 or more years before having sex?
> 
> 
> 
> The RIGHT man will...
Click to expand...

The RIGHT man probably will walk. Another RIGHT man may not. Relationships are about listening, sharing, challenging each other, growing together and compromise. Rigid unwavering stances are indicative of someone who isolates themselves and is unwilling to be a partner

W and I were both virgins when we met - 30 plus years together and as happy now as ever. But we're polar opposites - and that has forced both of us to challenge what we thought we believed and distill things down and eschew rules imposed on us that weren't going to work. I'm a much better person for being with her and vice versa. 2 people who exactly share values - that's neither required nor desirable IMHO. For me the sex is the test, not the issue. And the two may be a perfect match for each other in spite of differences in opinion about this now.


----------



## john117

The dating period is all about discovery. Yours and his. If sex is not important to you then you have a wedge between you because it is important for him. 

Bear in mind that the dating pool for people is a game of numbers. How many candidates pass the first screening, second, etc. Think of the qualities and issues each of you brings to the table and see if it changes the picture.


----------



## Vega

WorkingOnMe said:


> * If you can wait the years it will take to develop into a marriage, that says a lot about your drive. *You implied in another post that intimacy was lacking in your marriage before your ex cheated. If your boyfriend was here I'd advise him to beware.


Not true. You can be VERY high drive yet have even a HIGHER degree of self control. 

Plus, cheaters/narcissists are usually the cause of the lack of intimacy with their marital partner.


----------



## jorgegene

Celes said:


> I don't take the Bible 100% literally and realize it was written thousands of years ago, by various men, with various translations and meaning lost, and under various circumstances. According to the Bible, it's also sinful to eat shelfish and women shouldn't speak in church. There are tons of silly rules in the Bible that no one follows. Those rules are broken all the time but we don't beat ourselves up over it the same way some people do about sex.


to the vast, vast majority of christians, the bible is not merely written by various men, but the inspired word of God using men to write, but given to them directly by God, so it isn't just a book.

not to digress too much, but the first verse in the bible begins with "in the beginning........" and the last verse (not including a final blessing) after some 1,400 pages is "Amen!, come Lord Jesus!" EVERYTHING in between is related to and leads us ultimately to that final exhortation. The astonishing thing is that in that sense it becomes one single story, not many various disjointed books.

yes there are various interpretations, especially of the minutiae, but a much more solid consensus between churches on what is right, and premarital sex is not one of those 'right' things.

have yet to find a church that explicitly states pre-marital sex is ok.
on the other hand, we're sinners and we sin. means we try not to.


----------



## richardsharpe

Good evening
sexual compatibility is vital for a happy relationship / marriage.

It is perfectly OK for the OP to not want sex early on. It is perfectly OK for her partner to want lots of sex. They both need to understand if their long term sexual interests are compatible. There are too many threads here from people who thought that they could work things out sexually and ended up in unhappy relationships.


----------



## Anon Pink

Evinrude58 said:


> Huh? Suddenly a guy is a likely child predator if he tells his girlfriend of two months he wants to marry her, loves her, and wants some sex?
> I don't agree.
> 
> She's not going to wait for marriage to have sex. She's just not that into the guy. Just my thoughts.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Not at all. This guy knows her for 8 week, less than actually, and is pushing her into a committed relationship without regard for her values and with out regard for her honest feelings that she doesn't feel love toward him. 

The guy needs to back off a little. I think most men would know to do this if their romantic interest didn't return feelings of love. I think most men wouldn't be texting her every day saying I love you knowing that love isn't returned. Don't you agree that this is kind of bullying behavior?

The guy is manipulating her by proclaiming to share her religious beliefs while trying to push her into bed to cement their relationship...at 8 weeks into it.

Manipulation and bullying a single Mom of 3 little ones is classic grooming of a child predator.


----------



## richardsharpe

Good evening
He may be trying to manipulate her into sex, but there is a big gap between that and being a predator. 

There are certainly men who will try to manipulate women for sex. Depending on the level of manipulation that can range from mildly annoying to obnoxious, but doesn't need to be abusive. Variations of "I love you so lets have sex" may be sort of slimy, but not really horrible. 






Anon Pink said:


> Not at all. This guy knows her for 8 week, less than actually, and is pushing her into a committed relationship without regard for her values and with out regard for her honest feelings that she doesn't feel love toward him.
> 
> The guy needs to back off a little. I think most men would know to do this if their romantic interest didn't return feelings of love. I think most men wouldn't be texting her every day saying I love you knowing that love isn't returned. Don't you agree that this is kind of bullying behavior?
> 
> The guy is manipulating her by proclaiming to share her religious beliefs while trying to push her into bed to cement their relationship...at 8 weeks into it.
> 
> Manipulation and bullying a single Mom of 3 little ones is classic grooming of a child predator.


----------



## ConanHub

TheTruthHurts said:


> I think you should be more honest with yourself and your boyfriend, who, by the way, sounds like a nice guy.
> 
> The problems with your first marriage had NOTHING to do with sex - you chose poorly for some reason. Maybe you were young, but I suspect you were naive. Your EXH is the one with "poor" morals - you believe he was a cheater and narcissists
> 
> NOW you are taking it out in this new boy and pretending like sex is the issue. That's dishonest in my book and equally bad as sex before marriage.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with a young man wanting to have you and be close to you and be infatuated with you. That's what this sounds like to me. Not lust - that's a load of crap - why wouldn't he be infatuated with you? You sound nice, and he obviously is able to see you in spite of three kids in the way!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (I have 5 so I suspect yours cling to mom and are definitely competing for attention)
> 
> So lighten up already and ask yourself if there is something else about your boyfriend that makes you concerned. If so, explore THAT and don't dwell on the sex. If not.. Then make sure you don't drive him away by something as temporal as sex.
> 
> I do think it's ok to wait a bit - but discuss timelines with him so you both can see if you value things the same way. He may be ok growing the relationship a few months but not waiting 6 months. That's ok and honest. You might feel at 3 months that you are ready. But DONT get into a silly situation where you marry too soon BECAUSE OF THE SEX! This is kind of crazy - so try to talk and see where a compromise exists that fits you guys value system.
> 
> He sounds like a winner. Don't let your prior marriage ruin this relationship


Betray your own values and belief system but don't encourage others to do so and think it is good advice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ConanHub

WorkingOnMe said:


> You're not exactly a virgin bride. If you can wait the years it will take to develop into a marriage, that says a lot about your drive. You implied in another post that intimacy was lacking in your marriage before your ex cheated. If your boyfriend was here I'd advise him to beware.


You're not exactly a Christian and OP is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## john117

If the guy hasn't gotten the memo regarding value systems he's a slow learner. Maybe he'll walk and maybe that's for everyone's best outcome.

I don't like him putting pressure on but you need to look at it from his perspective also (empathy 101). Premarital sex may be evil and all that but considering the unknowns he's getting into (and she as well) I don't think morality is the big issue here.

The big issue is compatibility and how a single guy adjusts to an instant family of three kids. I'm the best father I know (esp now that my kids are in college ) and still I would have a difficult time adjusting to a new family. 

Intimacy to some extent as I wrote is all about discovery. Waiting to discover things post wedding cake, at this stage in both their lives, is risky. Remarkably risky. Stay separate and date for a year and see how it works. But if all you do is stay friends you could do it for a decade and nothing will change.

Darn I should have gone into clinical psych


----------



## Anon Pink

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> He may be trying to manipulate her into sex, but there is a big gap between that and being a predator.



Richard, I agree. That's why I originally stated "beware." The vast majority of child predators are manipulators. Single mom with young kids is a sitch in which they have easy access to her kids, or the friends of her kids. 




> There are certainly men who will try to manipulate women for sex. Depending on the level of manipulation that can range from mildly annoying to obnoxious, but doesn't need to be abusive. Variations of "I love you so lets have sex" may be sort of slimy, but not really horrible.


Please understand I am not at all making a generalized statement about men. 

This is what is so troubling and difficult about protecting children from CSA. You cannot place "all men who......" into the child predator category. What we know about child predators is that they seek easy access to children. They manipulate to gain access to children. They bully and/or shame to gain access to children. They also tend to work or volunteer in venues in which they have easy access to children.


----------



## Anon Pink

john117 said:


> If the guy hasn't gotten the memo regarding value systems he's a slow learner. Maybe he'll walk and maybe that's for everyone's best outcome.
> 
> I don't like him putting pressure on but you need to look at it from his perspective also (empathy 101). Premarital sex may be evil and all that but considering the unknowns he's getting into (and she as well) I don't think morality is the big issue here.
> 
> *The big issue is compatibility and how a single guy adjusts to an instant family of three kids. I'm the best father I know (esp now that my kids are in college ) and still I would have a difficult time adjusting to a new family. *


Exactly! Does anyone think it is rational and realistic that this guy, knowing her for two months, is ready to become husband and step father? Alarm bells alarm bells...something isn't right here!



> Darn I should have gone into clinical psych



I think you would have had a difficult time allowing your client to arrive at a conclusion in their own time. However, your ability to inform is excellent!


----------



## TheTruthHurts

ConanHub said:


> TheTruthHurts said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think you should be more honest with yourself and your boyfriend, who, by the way, sounds like a nice guy.
> 
> The problems with your first marriage had NOTHING to do with sex - you chose poorly for some reason. Maybe you were young, but I suspect you were naive. Your EXH is the one with "poor" morals - you believe he was a cheater and narcissists
> 
> NOW you are taking it out in this new boy and pretending like sex is the issue. That's dishonest in my book and equally bad as sex before marriage.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with a young man wanting to have you and be close to you and be infatuated with you. That's what this sounds like to me. Not lust - that's a load of crap - why wouldn't he be infatuated with you? You sound nice, and he obviously is able to see you in spite of three kids in the way!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (I have 5 so I suspect yours cling to mom and are definitely competing for attention)
> 
> So lighten up already and ask yourself if there is something else about your boyfriend that makes you concerned. If so, explore THAT and don't dwell on the sex. If not.. Then make sure you don't drive him away by something as temporal as sex.
> 
> I do think it's ok to wait a bit - but discuss timelines with him so you both can see if you value things the same way. He may be ok growing the relationship a few months but not waiting 6 months. That's ok and honest. You might feel at 3 months that you are ready. But DONT get into a silly situation where you marry too soon BECAUSE OF THE SEX! This is kind of crazy - so try to talk and see where a compromise exists that fits you guys value system.
> 
> He sounds like a winner. Don't let your prior marriage ruin this relationship
> 
> 
> 
> Betray your own values and belief system but don't encourage others to do so and think it is good advice.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...

Judge much? Don't dump your stifling religious thoughts on others. You reacted emotionally and not rationally to my post. Your view of Christianity is wrong, period. We're all sinners so enough with the holier than thou attitude.


----------



## ConanHub

TheTruthHurts said:


> Judge much? Don't dump your stifling religious thoughts on others. You reacted emotionally and not rationally to my post. Your view of Christianity is wrong, period. We're all sinners so enough with the holier than thou attitude.


Ok. You are obviously more brilliant than anyone on TAM and your belief system is clearly the only one that should be practiced because of it's eminent superiority, but that doesn't change the fact that OP has a different belief system.

OP doesn't believe in premarital sex.

It goes against her moral and value system.

You are advising her to go against her beliefs.

Bad advice unless you have betrayed your own values often with fantastic results.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tornado

WorkingOnMe said:


> I think that you should be with someone who wants to proceed on your timetable. And I think that he should be with someone who wants to proceed on his timetable. As far as I can tell, these aren't lining up, so you're not a match.



My thoughts exactly!!
Sounds pretty cut and dry to me.


----------



## GuyInColorado

Would love to know if the OP was raised up in a Christian home and this is why she believes. Or did she own her faith and come to the conclusion that the Bible is truth and what it says is how she should live her life. Region is such an interesting topic... so many people are wrong or right.


----------



## Threeblessings

WorkingOnMe said:


> You're not exactly a virgin bride. If you can wait the years it will take to develop into a marriage, that says a lot about your drive. You implied in another post that intimacy was lacking in your marriage before your ex cheated. If your boyfriend was here I'd advise him to beware.


You are misunderstanding. It lacked due to constant fighting. Do you really think I still want to do it when I'm treated like crap outside the bedroom. This is far from a drive issue! Thanks for pointing out again that I wasn't a virgin the first time. I've already admitted this and that's why I want to do it differently next time! I am Christian and you're not. Evidently our beliefs will be different!


----------



## Threeblessings

Vega said:


> Not true. You can be VERY high drive yet have even a HIGHER degree of self control.
> 
> Plus, cheaters/narcissists are usually the cause of the lack of intimacy with their marital partner.


Exactly! My exhusband chose to ignore our issues and get his needs met elsewhere.


----------



## Threeblessings

Holland said:


> How long do you think is a good amount of time to get to know someone before marriage, especially a second marriage? Keep in mind second marriages are more likely to end in divorce than first.
> 
> IMHO it is prudent to invest at least 3 or more years into a relationship before getting married for the second time particularly when children are involved. Do you expect a man to wait 3 or more years before having sex?


That depends. How long is a piece of string?


----------



## Holland

Threeblessings said:


> That depends. How long is a piece of string?


It was actually a very serious question and deserves very serious consideration.

Of course it is up to you to choose to not have sex before marriage but it might help for future relationships to have a much better idea of what your timeframes are.

This is second marriage we are talking about, you have 3 children, there is a lot to protect here. As I said the stats are against all of us second timers to start with, biggest issues being problems relating to children and parenting, also financial issues.

So with that in mind it is really important to invest a reasonable amount of time in the relationship pre marriage to make sure you guys are on the same page especially with those two issues, kids and money.

How long is a piece of string sort of indicates you have not given the whole thing the thought it deserves. 3 years is a reasonable time frame to invest before second marriages. To avoid wasting yours or a mans time then you should state this up front with any prospective partner.


----------



## Anon Pink

Threeblessings said:


> You are misunderstanding. It lacked due to constant fighting. Do you really think I still want to do it when I'm treated like crap outside the bedroom. This is far from a drive issue! Thanks for pointing out again that I wasn't a virgin the first time. I've already admitted this and that's why I want to do it differently next time! I am Christian and you're not. Evidently our beliefs will be different!


Honestly, you've got some consideration to put into any future relationship. While I understand your value driven decision not to have premarital sex, what Holland and WOM are pointing out is that:

1. You should have a 3 year long relationship before you marry again to ensure the many conflicts that surround a second marriage (that has children and exes and ex in laws to contend with) has the best chance at working. This is why second marriages tend to fail, there are too many players in the game.

2. Three years is a VERY long time to have a close lovin relationship with a man and NOT have sex. It's unreasonable, IMO, to expect someone with a high drive to go without sex. Frankly you are an adult not a young inexperienced virgin. If as an adult you decide that sex before marriage is okay for you, God isn't going to smite you.

Therefore the suggestion is that you make a decision on which is more important to you. Giving the next marriage the best possible shot at working out by waiting 3 years, or compromise your values about premarital sex. Obviously, some of us here, myself included, think you should rethink your stance on premarital sex. But what you will probably do is compromise on the length of time prior to marriage.

Rush in to marriage to get some sex.
Take you time on marriage and have sex now.


----------



## WhyMe66

You should do this when you are ready to share love, not to prove it. When it is making love not copulating. If he cannot understand that then he cannot understand you or your faith. If he cannot understand them then maybe he cannot respect them.


----------



## Cynthia

Your boyfriend is in too much of a hurry. Either he has a change of heart or you two are not going to have a happy, healthy relationship. It is better to find someone who has similar values and the fruit of the Spirit, which he is not exhibiting. If you don't, it will create problems anyway if you get married. I would not trust that man.

These are the things you look for in a mate:
Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control


----------



## Threeblessings

Anon Pink said:


> Honestly, you've got some consideration to put into any future relationship. While I understand your value driven decision not to have premarital sex, what Holland and WOM are pointing out is that:
> 
> 1. You should have a 3 year long relationship before you marry again to ensure the many conflicts that surround a second marriage (that has children and exes and ex in laws to contend with) has the best chance at working. This is why second marriages tend to fail, there are too many players in the game.
> 
> 2. Three years is a VERY long time to have a close lovin relationship with a man and NOT have sex. It's unreasonable, IMO, to expect someone with a high drive to go without sex. Frankly you are an adult not a young inexperienced virgin. If as an adult you decide that sex before marriage is okay for you, God isn't going to smite you.
> 
> Therefore the suggestion is that you make a decision on which is more important to you. Giving the next marriage the best possible shot at working out by waiting 3 years, or compromise your values about premarital sex. Obviously, some of us here, myself included, think you should rethink your stance on premarital sex. But what you will probably do is compromise on the length of time prior to marriage.
> 
> Rush in to marriage to get some sex.
> Take you time on marriage and have sex now.



Did you miss the part where I said I've only known him 2 months???? No wonder so many girls are labelled 'easy'. I'm in no rush whatsoever to remarry! I'm still getting to know him and not only that aside from my faith I don't love him just yet but my feelings are growing! You are advising that to keep my boyfriend or whatever you want to call it I should just have sex now??? Wow!


----------



## Vega

Anon Pink said:


> Three years is a VERY long time to have a close lovin relationship with a man and NOT have sex. It's unreasonable, IMO, to expect someone with a high drive to go without sex. Frankly you are an adult not a young inexperienced virgin. If as an adult you decide that sex before marriage is okay for you, God isn't going to smite you.


Let's not forget that in the 1950's and prior, people (yes, both men and women) DID wait that long sometimes to have sex.

...AND...many of them are still married TODAY, AND....

...BOTH people were virgins prior to marriage, AND...

...neither party has cheated on the other, AND...

...neither party has EVER contracted an STD or STI. 

As for whether or not God will or won't "smite" her if she has sex before marriage, I don't think any of us are qualified to make that judgment. 

There are enough valid reasons to wait before having sex. After all, it takes a while to get to know someone's _character_. I would hate to have sex with someone after knowing them for only a few months, and a few months later, discover that they're MARRIED...

...or just a complete a**hole.


----------



## MRR

Celes said:


> I'm Christian. I also believe God has way bigger things to worry about than who we have sex with (so long as we're not hurting anyone).
> 
> Sounds like the two of you aren't compatible. I'd hardly say he's the bad guy some people are making him out to be. Most men aren't going to stick around with no sex before marriage, especially when the woman is already divorced. Better to find a guy who's just as religious as you are.


He is not a bad guy for wanting sex. He is a bad guy for being a d!ck about it.


----------



## Anon Pink

Threeblessings said:


> Did you miss the part where I said I've only known him 2 months???? No wonder so many girls are labelled 'easy'. I'm in no rush whatsoever to remarry! I'm still getting to know him and not only that aside from my faith I don't love him just yet but my feelings are growing! You are advising that to keep my boyfriend or whatever you want to call it I should just have sex now??? Wow!


Did you miss my first 3 posts in this thread in which I did NOT recommend you continue with this relationship? Did you miss the fact that no where did I suggest that you bang this guy this weekend?

Look, I personally think waiting for marriage to have sex is a bad idea because sex is way too big of an issue that determines marital happiness to leave it to chance that you two are sexually compatible. And when I say "you two" I am not referring to the guy you are currently seeing.

Stick around sim for a while. See how many people post about their lousy sex life and how unhappy they are because of it. You want to leave your fulfilling sex life up to chance, have at it.


----------



## Vega

Anon Pink said:


> Stick around sim for a while. See how many people post about their lousy sex life and how unhappy they are because of it. You want to leave your fulfilling sex life up to chance, have at it.


Oh brother...

May I remind you that MOST of the people who are married and complaining about their "lousy" sex life, once had a GREAT sex life...with _each other_..._BEFORE_ marriage...and somewhat AFTER marriage. They DID "try-before-you-buy" and guess what...? They're _now_ complaining about having a "lousy" sex life!

Even if you have a GREAT sex life with your partner and go on to marry that partner, there's no guarantee that the "GREAT" sex life will continue. Life is fluid; not stagnant, and people can and DO change.

Therefore, sex _before_ marriage is NOT a good "barometer" for how sex will be _after_ marriage. There are way too many variables that can affect sex. 

And most of the time, sex wasn't the REAL issue anyway.


----------



## jb02157

Don't give into him. If he pressures you anymore tell him, you're not ready for that yet and if it's going to be a problem you're done with him.


----------



## kaybenn

Vega said:


> Oh brother...
> 
> May I remind you that MOST of the people who are married and complaining about their "lousy" sex life, once had a GREAT sex life...with _each other_..._BEFORE_ marriage...and somewhat AFTER marriage. They DID "try-before-you-buy" and guess what...? Their _now_ complaining about having a "lousy" sex life!
> 
> Even if you have a GREAT sex life with your partner and go on to marry that partner, there's no guarantee that the "GREAT" sex life will continue. Life is fluid; not stagnant, and people can and DO change.
> 
> Therefore, sex _before_ marriage is NOT a good "barometer" for how sex will be _after_ marriage. There are way too many variables that can affect sex.
> 
> And most of the time, sex wasn't the REAL issue anyway.


Agree!

Sent from my Nexus 5


----------



## john117

Threeblessings said:


> Did you miss the part where I said I've only known him 2 months???? No wonder so many girls are labelled 'easy'. I'm in no rush whatsoever to remarry! I'm still getting to know him and not only that aside from my faith I don't love him just yet but my feelings are growing! You are advising that to keep my boyfriend or whatever you want to call it I should just have sex now??? Wow!


What's your expectation in terms of a "getting to know you" period? Four months? Eight? Twenty four?

Everything has an opportunity cost associated with it. You may go for a year without giving in but you aren't going to make meaningful headway in terms of intimately knowing him from a distance.


----------



## samyeagar

Adults, especially ones that have been sexually active most of their lives typically want to have sex. Even ones with great self control. For myself, I would not pressure her, but I would figure she just wasn't that into me and move on. Sure, I might miss out on something great, but then again, so would she.


----------



## Vega

john117 said:


> What's your expectation in terms of a "getting to know you" period? Four months? Eight? Twenty four?
> 
> Everything has an opportunity cost associated with it. You may go for a year without giving in but you aren't going to make meaningful headway in terms of intimately knowing him from a distance.


One does not have to "intimately" know someone in order to know if they're worth marrying. 

The foundation for ALL relationships is _trustworthiness_. Being trustworthy is more than just being _honest_. It asks and answers questions, such as:

Are you going to _at least _align my needs with your own, or are you going to constantly put your needs ahead of mine?

Are your words going to consistently match your actions, or is there going to be a disconnect between the two?

Are you honest or do you see no problem with lying?

Are you a hypocrite?


Obviously, you can't just ASK someone questions like these and depend on their answer. You have to observe them in various situations. You also need SOME amount of tolerance for someone's _humanity_. For example, if someone tells you that they're going shopping today, and later on decide not to go, you wouldn't conclude that they're not trustworthy based on that ONE incident. But if they promise you fidelity during that time frame, and you find them in bed with someone else, then yes, you can deem them to be untrustworthy. But you need _time_ to see all this for yourself.

People are generally exhibiting their best behavior during the first few months of a relationship. But during that time period the social mask DOES begin to slip, even just a little, as the OP's b/f is exhibiting NOW. This is when we NEED to pay close attention, know what to ask, know what to look for and know when to throw in the towel.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Vega said:


> One does not have to "intimately" know someone in order to know if they're worth marrying.
> 
> 
> 
> The foundation for ALL relationships is _trustworthiness_. Being trustworthy is more than just being _honest_. It asks and answers questions, such as:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you going to _at least _align my needs with your own, or are you going to constantly put your needs ahead of mine?
> 
> 
> 
> Are your words going to consistently match your actions, or is there going to be a disconnect between the two?
> 
> 
> 
> Are you honest or do you see no problem with lying?
> 
> 
> 
> Are you a hypocrite?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously, you can't just ASK someone questions like these and depend on their answer. You have to observe them in various situations. You also need SOME amount of tolerance for someone's _humanity_. For example, if someone tells you that they're going shopping today, and later on decide not to go, you wouldn't conclude that they're not trustworthy based on that ONE incident. But if they promise you fidelity during that time frame, and you find them in bed with someone else, then yes, you can deem them to be untrustworthy. But you need _time_ to see all this for yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> People are generally exhibiting their best behavior during the first few months of a relationship. But during that time period the social mask DOES begin to slip, even just a little, as the OP's b/f is exhibiting NOW. This is when we NEED to pay close attention, know what to ask, know what to look for and know when to throw in the towel.




Nice dodge.


----------



## Vega

samyeagar said:


> Adults, especially ones that have been sexually active most of their lives typically want to have sex. Even ones with great self control. For myself, I would not pressure her, but I would figure she just wasn't that into me and move on. Sure, I might miss out on something great, but then again, so would she.


We're not talking about "adults". We're talking about CHRISTIAN adults. Their value system is different than non-Christians.

As for her "not being into YOU", perhaps it's just that she's not into sex with you RIGHT _NOW_. After all, she wouldn't want to consent to having sex with you after 2 months of dating only to discover after 4 months of dating that you're a felon wanted in 8 states and that you have a meth problem!

Yes, she might be missing out on something "great", but if you move on because she won't "put out" after 2 months, you might just free up her schedule for something even GREATER.


----------



## samyeagar

Vega said:


> We're not talking about "adults". We're talking about CHRISTIAN adults. Their value system is different than non-Christians.
> 
> As for her "not being into YOU", perhaps it's just that she's not into sex with you RIGHT _NOW_. After all, she wouldn't want to consent to having sex with you after 2 months of dating only to discover after 4 months of dating that you're a felon wanted in 8 states and that you have a meth problem!
> 
> Yes, she might be missing out on something "great", but if you move on because she won't "put out" after 2 months, you might just free up her schedule for something even GREATER.


There are numerous different "Christian" value systems, so even that is not a one size fits all, even for a single person depending on the circumstances.

Ultimately, one needs to find someone with whom they are compatible. In this case, it is pretty clear that they are not a match. Doesn't make either better or more moral than the other. It just makes them different.

And absolutely, I'd be freeing her up for someone better for her than I would be, not because she is more virtuous than I am...because someone else would be a better match for her.


----------



## Holland

Disclaimer: I am an atheist.

I get it that people want to wait some time before having sex.
That pressuring another to have sex is a bad thing.

But how does having sex or wanting to have sex make someone a bad person? 

Rushing into marriage is by far a greater indicator of a poor personality that wanting to have sex which by the way is a perfectly normal and natural human desire.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

Holland said:


> Disclaimer: I am an atheist.
> 
> I get it that people want to wait some time before having sex.
> That pressuring another to have sex is a bad thing.
> 
> But how does having sex or wanting to have sex make someone a bad person?
> 
> Rushing into marriage is by far a greater indicator of a poor personality that wanting to have sex which by the way is a perfectly normal and natural human desire.


Good think you're atheist or you'd be a BAD BAD Christian! Having premarital sex before marriage = bad person! Didn't you read the "true Christians" here?

And only missionary position!!! Other positions are for animals, which is why the Christian missionaries said they were sinful.

In Hawaii they have these horrible trees with thorns that were planted by the Christian missionaries to force the sinful people to wear sandals.

Don't even get me started on how those poor souls had to straighten out the heathens around the world - that was quite the crusade.

You must listen, Holland, to people who know things much more better than you!


----------



## ConanHub

Holland said:


> Disclaimer: I am an atheist.
> 
> I get it that people want to wait some time before having sex.
> That pressuring another to have sex is a bad thing.
> 
> But how does having sex or wanting to have sex make someone a bad person?
> 
> Rushing into marriage is by far a greater indicator of a poor personality that wanting to have sex which by the way is a perfectly normal and natural human desire.


Wanting sex does not make anyone a bad person.

Having extramarital sex in any form does make you a bad Christian.

I had loads of premarital sex including my wife for four years before we married.

I became a Christian after marriage and I will not be having sex outside of marriage again.

A Christian should not hold a non Christian to their standards or worry if they aren't living by someone else 's rules.

Different lifestyles and rules.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ConanHub

TheTruthHurts said:


> Good think you're atheist or you'd be a BAD BAD Christian! Having premarital sex before marriage = bad person! Didn't you read the "true Christians" here?
> 
> And only missionary position!!! Other positions are for animals, which is why the Christian missionaries said they were sinful.
> 
> In Hawaii they have these horrible trees with thorns that were planted by the Christian missionaries to force the sinful people to wear sandals.
> 
> Don't even get me started on how those poor souls had to straighten out the heathens around the world - that was quite the crusade.
> 
> You must listen, Holland, to people who know things much more better than you!


You are shrill, uninformed and largely ignorant on this topic.
There are many Christians that struggle with bedroom issues, just like non Christians but my sex life simply rocks and I have encouraged many couples in this area successfully.
_Posted via Mobile Device_

P.S. Those missionaries were fvcking idiots and practiced rules in no way advocated by Jesus.


----------



## ConanHub

Threeblessings said:


> Did you miss the part where I said I've only known him 2 months???? No wonder so many girls are labelled 'easy'. I'm in no rush whatsoever to remarry! I'm still getting to know him and not only that aside from my faith I don't love him just yet but my feelings are growing! You are advising that to keep my boyfriend or whatever you want to call it I should just have sex now??? Wow!


Pretty common among non Christians and pretty normal.

There are a lot of people claiming Christianity that don't exactly practice it either in this area.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## richie33

OP you should just move on. I always see commercials for Christians mingle, maybe give that a shot.


----------



## ConanHub

Anon Pink said:


> Did you miss my first 3 posts in this thread in which I did NOT recommend you continue with this relationship? Did you miss the fact that no where did I suggest that you bang this guy this weekend?
> 
> Look, I personally think waiting for marriage to have sex is a bad idea because sex is way too big of an issue that determines marital happiness to leave it to chance that you two are sexually compatible. And when I say "you two" I am not referring to the guy you are currently seeing.
> 
> Stick around sim for a while. See how many people post about their lousy sex life and how unhappy they are because of it. You want to leave your fulfilling sex life up to chance, have at it.


I have seen conversation and education do a far better job, especially where Christians are concerned, than fvcking people until you find a good ride.

I was no where near as compatible with Mrs. Conan as I was with other women but we worked our asses off and have very hot sex.

We are now more compatible than any other partner we have had.

Education and training takes care of business. At least that I have observed and experienced in my community.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ConanHub

samyeagar said:


> There are numerous different "Christian" value systems, so even that is not a one size fits all, even for a single person depending on the circumstances.
> 
> Ultimately, one needs to find someone with whom they are compatible. In this case, it is pretty clear that they are not a match. Doesn't make either better or more moral than the other. It just makes them different.
> 
> And absolutely, I'd be freeing her up for someone better for her than I would be, not because she is more virtuous than I am...because someone else would be a better match for her.


Sure dude. Please point me to where God says sex outside marriage and multiple partners is good and endorsed by Him.

I've read that book for a long time and must have missed that part.

Don't use the interpretation argument. Sex is sex in Greek, Hebrew and English.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## optimalprimus

ConanHub said:


> Sure dude. Please point me to where God says sex outside marriage and multiple partners is good and endorsed by Him.
> 
> I've read that book for a long time and must have missed that part.
> 
> Don't use the interpretation argument. Sex is sex in Greek, Hebrew and English.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nice of you to ignore samyeager's second and third paragraphs. You're missing the point here which is not about whether the OP or her fella is a good Christian or not by your or anyone elses standards.

its that she wants to wait for marriage before having sex and her new partner doesn't share that stance. She should be very honest, give him a chance to react but prepare to move on. Maybe try meeting her next partner through a christian route to increase the chances of meeting someone compatible.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk


----------



## TheTruthHurts

ConanHub said:


> You are shrill, uninformed and largely ignorant on this topic.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ha ha you are the ignorant one and are very shrill. You are just ignorant of your ignorance. But you are indeed funny to read so keep posting.


----------



## Threeblessings

TheTruthHurts said:


> Good think you're atheist or you'd be a BAD BAD Christian! Having premarital sex before marriage = bad person! Didn't you read the "true Christians" here?
> 
> And only missionary position!!! Other positions are for animals, which is why the Christian missionaries said they were sinful.
> 
> In Hawaii they have these horrible trees with thorns that were planted by the Christian missionaries to force the sinful people to wear sandals.
> 
> Don't even get me started on how those poor souls had to straighten out the heathens around the world - that was quite the crusade.
> 
> You must listen, Holland, to people who know things much more better than you!




This is absolute rubbish. It seems to me that you're having a dig at Christians for your own personal reasons. It is clear in the Bible that premarital sex is forbidden and added to that it is possible to tell whether two people have chemistry or not. "Try before you buy" attitude does not mean that you'll always be compatible either!


----------



## TheTruthHurts

I understand your position and I get that you and some others completely miss mine and others here. It's ok.


----------



## Threeblessings

optimalprimus said:


> Nice of you to ignore samyeager's second and third paragraphs. You're missing the point here which is not about whether the OP or her fella is a good Christian or not by your or anyone elses standards.
> 
> its that she wants to wait for marriage before having sex and her new partner doesn't share that stance. She should be very honest, give him a chance to react but prepare to move on. Maybe try meeting her next partner through a christian route to increase the chances of meeting someone compatible.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk


I have explained this to my boyfriend already. I have been very honest and he wants to stay because he loves me? I suggested that we break up and he find someone who us willing to go all the way now but he doesn't want to.


----------



## Threeblessings

TheTruthHurts said:


> Ha ha you are the ignorant one and are very shrill. You are just ignorant of your ignorance. But you are indeed funny to read so keep posting.


I disagree. Conan is coming from Christian perspectives, there is nothing ignorant about what he has said. It is the truth!


----------



## TheTruthHurts

And btw I'm not bashing Christians and I am a good Christian - it's just that God doesn't talk directly to me like he does to some of you, and I am humble enough to recognize that. I do abhor ignorance and discussions where people dismiss others because they feel superior and closer to God than the other millions of Christians who don't believe exactly the same things.


----------



## john117

Vega, the OP has three children and as such the level of trustworthiness - proof required far exceeds that of two young never married people.

That's the whole point. Many men would bolt faster than Ussain Bolt regardless of sex when dealing with a potential person with three kids. The stakes are high from all sides. 

She can serially and celibately date a bunch of two month wonders or she can take some risks and try for something more fruitful.


----------



## optimalprimus

Threeblessings said:


> I have explained this to my boyfriend already. I have been very honest and he wants to stay because he loves me? I suggested that we break up and he find someone who us willing to go all the way now but he doesn't want to.


Ok so you've communicated your firm position to him and he's not respecting your boundaries. He's also worryingly attached to you for such a short relationship. Time to put the big girl pants on and end it with him. 

One other thing that might help. Your original post indicated you might be telling him you really want to have sex with hin but your faith doesn't allow it? Take responsibility for your choices. It isn't your faith that wants to wait, its you acting with your own agency.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk


----------



## Threeblessings

john117 said:


> Vega, the OP has three children and as such the level of trustworthiness - proof required far exceeds that of two young never married people.
> 
> That's the whole point. Many men would bolt faster than Ussain Bolt regardless of sex when dealing with a potential person with three kids. The stakes are high from all sides.
> 
> She can serially and celibately date a bunch of two month wonders or she can take some risks and try for something more fruitful.


He knows about my children and doesn't mind that I come with baggage at all. He doesn't have children and he's never been married. I don't think risks is the answer we already have so much in common, get along great and there is chemistry. Two months is not a long time to be certain of anything.


----------



## Threeblessings

optimalprimus said:


> Ok so you've communicated your firm position to him and he's not respecting your boundaries. He's also worryingly attached to you for such a short relationship. Time to put the big girl pants on and end it with him.
> 
> One other thing that might help. Your original post indicated you might be telling him you really want to have sex with hin but your faith doesn't allow it? Take responsibility for your choices. It isn't your faith that wants to wait, its you acting with your own agency.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk


No, I didn't tell him I want to but the temptation was there when he tried to take my clothes off. I couldn't do it and explained the boundaries again. He is afraid of losing me and said he won't push me again??? I don't want to because of my faith and that's the truth.


----------



## ConanHub

optimalprimus said:


> Nice of you to ignore samyeager's second and third paragraphs. You're missing the point here which is not about whether the OP or her fella is a good Christian or not by your or anyone elses standards.
> 
> its that she wants to wait for marriage before having sex and her new partner doesn't share that stance. She should be very honest, give him a chance to react but prepare to move on. Maybe try meeting her next partner through a christian route to increase the chances of meeting someone compatible.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk


You're right. I should have acknowledged the part of his post I agreed with instead of just posting the part I didn't.

Sorry @samyeagar
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## optimalprimus

Threeblessings said:


> No, I didn't tell him I want to but the temptation was there when he tried to take my clothes off. I couldn't do it and explained the boundaries again. He is afraid of losing me and said he won't push me again??? I don't want to because of my faith and that's the truth.


Sorry I'm really struggling to understand your situation. Has he now totally accepted your boundaries (great! You're just left with the red flags others have highlighted)?

Your question marks in the penultimate sentence make it very unclear.

If you're looking for advice on how to maintain abstinence during dating I suspect there will be better forums than TAM out there.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk


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## Threeblessings

optimalprimus said:


> Sorry I'm really struggling to understand your situation. Has he now totally accepted your boundaries (great! You're just left with the red flags others have highlighted)?
> 
> Your question marks in the penultimate sentence make it very unclear.
> 
> If you're looking for advice on how to maintain abstinence during dating I suspect there will be better forums than TAM out there.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk


He says he has accepted the boundaries but I can't be sure that he won't try to have sex with me again. Someone pointed out that he is obsessed with me and this is also true.


----------



## john117

Threeblessings said:


> He knows about my children and doesn't mind that I come with baggage at all. He doesn't have children and he's never been married. I don't think risks is the answer we already have so much in common, get along great and there is chemistry. Two months is not a long time to be certain of anything.


Exactly. Read Anon Pink's response where she suggested years. 

It's all about mitigating risk. At two months kids are not an issue. Do I hear six months?


----------



## optimalprimus

Threeblessings said:


> He says he has accepted the boundaries but I can't be sure that he won't try to have sex with me again. Someone pointed out that he is obsessed with me and this is also true.


Thanks for the clarification. Putting the obsession thing to one side (just temporarily) if you were clear about your boundaries, including heavy petting, non-intercourse sexual activity etc, then you could give him a chance to see if he respects them. And if he gets occasionally carried away but checks himself thats not a bad sign in itself.

But the other red flags deserve much more of your attention right now imho.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk


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## Evinrude58

Lol, I can guarantee you he will try to have sex with you again.
He is a man. And men want sex.
Can't blame 'em. And all these people that say he's too attached for two months-- I disagree. 

If he has had a steady job for many years, has lifelong friends that act like he's a trusted friend, and has no addictions, you might give it a chance. Just be firm.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Threeblessings

Evinrude58 said:


> Lol, I can guarantee you he will try to have sex with you again.
> He is a man. And men want sex.
> Can't blame 'em. And all these people that say he's too attached for two months-- I disagree.
> 
> If he has had a steady job for many years, has lifelong friends that act like he's a trusted friend, and has no addictions, you might give it a chance. Just be firm.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I realise that he wants sex. He's got a steady job but doesn't have a lot of friends. He lost them he said when he worked away for for 10 years. There's definitely no addictions. Neither of us smoke or drink either.


----------



## ConanHub

As long as he is respecting your boundaries and you like him, might not hurt to keep him in the picture but keep the communication going always.

If his profession of love bothers you right now then just have open conversation about it.

If his current stance on Christianity is a problem, which might be the issue, then discuss it and hear him out to.

How do you two communicate?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Threeblessings

ConanHub said:


> As long as he is respecting your boundaries and you like him, might not hurt to keep him in the picture but keep the communication going always.
> 
> If his profession of love bothers you right now then just have open conversation about it.
> 
> If his current stance on Christianity is a problem, which might be the issue, then discuss it and hear him out to.
> 
> How do you two communicate?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We communicate like normal people I would hope. We see each other regularly, text, chat on the phone and sometimes there is the odd Facebook message. I have listened to what he has to say and about having sex he said that his hormones are racing around his body and that he wants me so badly.


----------



## Holland

Threeblessings said:


> We communicate like normal people I would hope. We see each other regularly, text, chat on the phone and sometimes there is the odd Facebook message. I have listened to what he has to say and about having sex he said that his hormones are racing around his body and that he wants me so badly.


Keeping the religious aspect out of it, what happens if you do wait the required time (which you have not indicated what that time frame is) and then you have sex and are not compatible? Would you be ok now that you are married to stay put even without sexual compatibility?

Do you know what his likes/dislikes are with regard to sex? 

You will be taking your kids into another marriage and without doing the due diligence in regard to your sexual connection or lack thereof you may then be taking a big risk as to the longevity of the marriage and another divorce for you and the kids.

Not dissing your religion. This question is outside of that and more about compatibility and longevity.


----------



## Threeblessings

Holland said:


> Keeping the religious aspect out of it, what happens if you do wait the required time (which you have not indicated what that time frame is) and then you have sex and are not compatible? Would you be ok now that you are married to stay put even without sexual compatibility?
> 
> Do you know what his likes/dislikes are with regard to sex?
> 
> You will be taking your kids into another marriage and without doing the due diligence in regard to your sexual connection or lack thereof you may then be taking a big risk as to the longevity of the marriage and another divorce for you and the kids.
> 
> Not dissing your religion. This question is outside of that and more about compatibility and longevity.


Holland, there is chemistry already. We can feel it and in terms of what each like that conversation will happen in due course. I intend to be very honest about his, there is some things I like and don't like and he will have the same, just like any other person. Regardless of that if there is just 1 thing I won't or can't do that doesn't mean I don't care about him. It's about finding an even balance. For all I know our drives could even be different. The thing is my ex-husband only knew how to hurt me not how to love me. This guy is telling me and showing me that he cares about me. He knows I am still grappling with my divorce and understands why I don't want too much too soon...... well that was a lot of extra information!


----------



## Personal

Vega said:


> Holland said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you expect a man to wait 3 or more years before having sex?
> 
> 
> 
> The RIGHT man will...
Click to expand...

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

What sane man or sane woman who is sexually functional, not asexual and or sexually repulsed by their nominal and or potential sexual partner/s, would choose celibacy for 1095+ days?

Life is short, ...really it is!

If an an adult with a sexual past is prepared to fritter away three years or more of their life wilfully being celibate in a romantic relationship. On the off chance that their evidently frigid partner might potentially marry them and or might potentially have a healthy sexual relationship, it is extraordinarily likely that they are an idiot.

3 years on the off chance... :surprise:

@Threeblessings if you want to abstain from having sex until marriage and your dating partner doesn't you are both evidently not compatible, therefore both of you would be far better served by ending your dating relationship.

For your own peace of mind if you want a romantic relationship with a compatible partner, you ought to choose someone who at least shares your worldview.

At the end of the day if an adult is willing to abstain from sexual relations with their potential or nominal sexual partner for a long time. One should never be surprised to learn that their partner either finds them sexually repugnant, is getting sex elsewhere or doesn't like having sex.

Note to self: Always try to avoid dating crazy people!

P.S. The nice thing about dating is, if they don't fit it's far easier to let them go...


----------



## Personal

Threeblessings said:


> Someone pointed out that he is obsessed with me and this is also true.


After such a short time, if this is true you should be wary of him...


----------



## john117

Threeblessings said:


> He knows about my children and doesn't mind that I come with baggage at all. He doesn't have children and he's never been married. I don't think risks is the answer we already have so much in common, get along great and there is chemistry. Two months is not a long time to be certain of anything.


Then you must be a lot less paranoid than I am. I would not dream of having a new person in my childrens' lives after two months, period. Especially at their ages. 

Therefore, either you go your separate ways or you find ways ( :wink2: ) to keep the relationship going past the magic mark that I would consider "sufficient". 

For practice, buy him a cat. Preferably a BIG cat like the monster Maine **** my daughter has. He's 20 lb at 1 year 2 months, going for 25+. He may like the cat at first - all guys do - but after a while a Maine **** is like dealing with a 2 year old. Constant attention, gets into everything, can create Dresden-style destruction instantly, and above all, you have to deal with the responsibility. She had to put the cat to boarding for a week for a school trip and was heartbroken. Just like I felt when I saw her off for college five years ago. 

When your guy can demonstrate that he can handle the kids long term in a responsible manner - not tolerate them, but actually deal with them according to YOUR specs because you're the mother - then you know he's a keeper. And to do that he - and you - need time.


----------



## ConanHub

Personal said:


> :rofl::rofl::rofl:
> 
> What sane man or sane woman who is sexually functional, not asexual and or sexually repulsed by their nominal and or potential sexual partner/s, would choose celibacy for 1095+ days?
> 
> Life is short, ...really it is!
> 
> If an an adult with a sexual past is prepared to fritter away three years or more of their life wilfully being celibate in a romantic relationship. On the off chance that their evidently frigid partner might potentially marry them and or might potentially have a healthy sexual relationship, it is extraordinarily likely that they are an idiot.
> 
> 3 years on the off chance... :surprise:
> 
> @Threeblessings if you want to abstain from having sex until marriage and your dating partner doesn't you are both evidently not compatible, therefore both of you would be far better served by ending your dating relationship.
> 
> For your own peace of mind if you want a romantic relationship with a compatible partner, you ought to choose someone who at least shares your worldview.
> 
> At the end of the day if an adult is willing to abstain from sexual relations with their potential or nominal sexual partner for a long time. One should never be surprised to learn that their partner either finds them sexually repugnant, is getting sex elsewhere or doesn't like having sex.
> 
> Note to self: Always try to avoid dating crazy people!


Crazy? Seriously?

Before my heart was broken in high school, I would have waited longer for a woman I loved.

Not everyone shares your view. It doesn't make us messed up.

I definitely have the experience to know what I am talking about when it comes to sex partners.

I would lack nothing if I had waited until marriage.

That is 20/20 hindsight and hard earned wisdom speaking.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WorkingOnMe

ConanHub said:


> Crazy? Seriously?
> 
> 
> 
> Before my heart was broken in high school, I would have waited longer for a woman I loved.
> 
> 
> 
> Not everyone shares your view. It doesn't make us messed up.
> 
> 
> 
> I definitely have the experience to know what I am talking about when it comes to sex partners.
> 
> 
> 
> I would lack nothing if I had waited until marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> That is 20/20 hindsight and hard earned wisdom speaking.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




I think you know there's a huge difference between a high school virgin and a middle aged divorcée with three kids and a fully informed sexual history. Religion is a great excuse to avoid the sex one does not want. Up until the point when religion instructs one to give it up regularly. At which point the ld ignores it.


----------



## soccermom2three

WorkingOnMe said:


> Religion is a great excuse to avoid the sex one does not want. Up until the point when religion instructs one to give it up regularly. At which point the ld ignores it.


Whoa, this kind of blew my mind. I've never thought of it this way.


----------



## Threeblessings

john117 said:


> Then you must be a lot less paranoid than I am. I would not dream of having a new person in my childrens' lives after two months, period. Especially at their ages.
> 
> Therefore, either you go your separate ways or you find ways ( :wink2: ) to keep the relationship going past the magic mark that I would consider "sufficient".
> 
> For practice, buy him a cat. Preferably a BIG cat like the monster Maine **** my daughter has. He's 20 lb at 1 year 2 months, going for 25+. He may like the cat at first - all guys do - but after a while a Maine **** is like dealing with a 2 year old. Constant attention, gets into everything, can create Dresden-style destruction instantly, and above all, you have to deal with the responsibility. She had to put the cat to boarding for a week for a school trip and was heartbroken. Just like I felt when I saw her off for college five years ago.
> 
> When your guy can demonstrate that he can handle the kids long term in a responsible manner - not tolerate them, but actually deal with them according to YOUR specs because you're the mother - then you know he's a keeper. And to do that he - and you - need time.


Thank you. I haven't introduced him to the children yet as my daughter is has been crying about the divorce. Their father moved a new woman into my house 5 minutes after I moved out. This also threw a spanner in the works. I would rather give it a little more time before I introduce him to them. For some this is probably ridiculous but my kids have been through a lot and the breakup of the marriage hurt them more than I imagined. He's got pets, dogs actually and loves them to bits.


----------



## Threeblessings

WorkingOnMe said:


> I think you know there's a huge difference between a high school virgin and a middle aged divorcée with three kids and a fully informed sexual history. Religion is a great excuse to avoid the sex one does not want. Up until the point when religion instructs one to give it up regularly. At which point the ld ignores it.


What I have been saying here is not an EXCUSE in any way shape or form. I've made my fair share of mistakes and I would like to learn from them and that means not entering into a sexual relationship until marriage if that was to ever occur. I'm in no rush at all! Edited to add that I have been alone for 2 and half years and during this time I have been just fine.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

I'm going to ask hopefully innocuous question, but it will be misinterpreted anyway. 

I read your OP and the entire thread including the atheist vs christian vs real vs pretend vs bullying child predators right fighting. You were kind of vague, what type of pressure is he applying?


----------



## Threeblessings

phillybeffandswiss said:


> I'm going to ask hopefully innocuous question, but it will be misinterpreted anyway.
> 
> I read your OP and the entire thread including the atheist vs christian vs real vs pretend vs bullying child predators right fighting. You were kind of vague, what type of pressure is he applying?


That's a fair question. Pressure to me is trying to undress me, hold my hand and take me to his bedroom, tell me how much he wants to be naked with me, wants to undress me, be inside me, then trying again at another time to try undress me. He used to say that if we have sex it won't change how he feels about me, I don't believe this part. And the fact if we do start to have a sexual relationship our relationship will get better and stronger. Again, I don't like this either. I've told him already that I don't think I will be able to go round his house if that is his intention every time I see him.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Threeblessings said:


> I have been alone for 2 and half years and during this time I have been just fine.




I believe you on this 100%.


----------



## Vega

Threeblessings said:


> And the fact if we do start to have a sexual relationship our relationship will get better and stronger. Again, I don't like this either.


Yeah, riiiiiiight. You had pre-marital sex with your ex-husband, and your marital relationship was sooooo much "better" and "stronger"...

...that he CHEATED on you SEVERAL TIMES. 

I'd remind your b/f of this if he tries this line again. Sorry dude...but that dog won't hunt!


----------



## Threeblessings

WorkingOnMe said:


> I believe you on this 100%.


What exactly does that mean?


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Threeblessings said:


> What exactly does that mean?


That you are truthful.


----------



## Threeblessings

Vega said:


> Yeah, riiiiiiight. You had pre-marital sex with your ex-husband, and your marital relationship was sooooo much "better" and "stronger"...
> 
> ...that he CHEATED on you SEVERAL TIMES.
> 
> I'd remind your b/f of this if he tries this line again. Sorry dude...but that dog won't hunt!


I have. He is aware that if he tries to lure me to the bedroom or tell me this sort of thing then I'm walking away. Vega, what you pointed out is exactly why I am not interested in premarital sex ever again.


----------



## Threeblessings

WorkingOnMe said:


> That you are truthful.


At last you I think you can see where I am coming from.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Threeblessings said:


> At last you I think you can see where I am coming from.


Yes, I do think I see where you're coming from.

Good luck to you Threeblessings.


----------



## Threeblessings

Personal said:


> After such a short time, if this is true you should be wary of him...


It is true, Personal. I am concerned that he comes across as needy sometimes or maybe he sees what he does as being thoughtful and maybe caring? What I mean by this is that I received numerous text messages every day, Facebook declarations of love, phone calls and invites to sleep over (and he assures me that we will not have sex).


----------



## Personal

Threeblessings said:


> What I have been saying here is not an EXCUSE in any way shape or form. I've made my fair share of mistakes and I would like to learn from them and that means not entering into a sexual relationship until marriage if that was to ever occur. I'm in no rush at all!


Not wanting to rush into a marriage is quite sensible, choosing to abstain from sex until marriage for a prolonged period (years?) with a partner who desires sex is no protection against marital infidelity.

In fact such an approach probably puts you at greater risk of suffering from infidelity rather than protecting you from it. Many nominal Christians cheat on their sexual partners. Absent being able to read someones mind if they do not want to share and or are good at guarding their secrets, you will never know what's inside their head.

If your partner really desires sex and is not just letting you think he does. It is unlikely he will over the long term in practice actually abstain from having sex (with others absent you) for a prolonged period of time.

There are plenty of women who have married charming, safe men who they thought desired sex with them but in the end they didn't at all.

Why are you inclined to do things that are likely to see you rinse and repeat your marital infidelity experience?

Since you will now not have sex before marriage as opposed to before when you did have sex before marriage (reading TAM it is evident the "nice guys" you want, resent the hell out of that kind of thing), how long do you think any of your potential (experienced and very adult – non High School) suitors should have to wait before you marry them in order for them to get to have sex with you?

The dilemma you face is as follows; How do you get a healthy, sane and sexual man with a history to exclusively stick around you (who also has a history), sans any sex at all ever throughout a sufficient time period that allows you to determine marital compatibility, factoring in the past, ex's, kids, work, lifestyle, credit, finances and let's not forget sexual proclivities?

Do you really believe a healthy, sane and sexual man with a history is likely to exclusively stick around you sans sex for a few years, without getting sex elsewhere while telling you whatever fairy tale fantasy you want to hear?

Do you really believe a man with a healthy sex drive and a sexual history, is mentally healthy if he is willing to exclusively stick around you sans any sex at all for a few years?


----------



## john117

Threeblessings said:


> That's a fair question. Pressure to me is trying to undress me, hold my hand and take me to his bedroom, tell me how much he wants to be naked with me, wants to undress me, be inside me, then trying again at another time to try undress me. He used to say that if we have sex it won't change how he feels about me, I don't believe this part.


Allow me to use the visual aid below...


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Threeblessings said:


> That's a fair question. Pressure to me is trying to undress me, hold my hand and take me to his bedroom, tell me how much he wants to be naked with me, wants to undress me, be inside me, then trying again at another time to try undress me. He used to say that if we have sex it won't change how he feels about me, I don't believe this part. And the fact if we do start to have a sexual relationship our relationship will get better and stronger. Again, I don't like this either. I've told him already that I don't think I will be able to go round his house if that is his intention every time I see him.


Thank you, Yeah he should respect your wishes, but I do not see it as manipulation. As long as he stops when you say and his pressure diminishes, see where it goes. Libido exists so, if every once in awhile he fails, don't be too angry just remind him.
His game sucks though and I am old.


----------



## Threeblessings

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Thank you, Yeah he should respect your wishes, but I do not see it as manipulation. As long as he stops when you say and his pressure diminishes, see where it goes. Libido exists so, if every once in awhile he fails, don't be too angry just remind him.
> His game sucks though and I am old.


Ok, maybe not manipulation but it has happened 3 times already. I would say that he is probably hoping I give in but just maybe he will wait and not try his luck again.


----------



## Threeblessings

Personal said:


> Not wanting to rush into a marriage is quite sensible, choosing to abstain from sex until marriage for a prolonged period (years?) with a partner who desires sex is no protection against marital infidelity.
> 
> In fact such an approach probably puts you at greater risk of suffering from infidelity rather than protecting you from it. Many nominal Christians cheat on their sexual partners. Absent being able to read someones mind if they do not want to share and or are good at guarding their secrets, you will never know what's inside their head.
> 
> If your partner really desires sex and is not just letting you think he does. It is unlikely he will over the long term in practice actually abstain from having sex (with others absent you) for a prolonged period of time.
> 
> There are plenty of women who have married charming, safe men who they thought desired sex with them but in the end they didn't at all.
> 
> Why are you inclined to do things that are likely to see you rinse and repeat your marital infidelity experience?
> 
> Since you will now not have sex before marriage as opposed to before when you did have sex before marriage (reading TAM it is evident the "nice guys" you want, resent the hell out of that kind of thing), how long do you think any of your potential (experienced and very adult – non High School) suitors should have to wait before you marry them in order for them to get to have sex with you?
> 
> The dilemma you face is as follows; How do you get a healthy, sane and sexual man with a history to exclusively stick around you (who also has a history), sans any sex at all ever throughout a sufficient time period that allows you to determine marital compatibility, factoring in the past, ex's, kids, work, lifestyle, credit, finances and let's not forget sexual proclivities?
> 
> Do you really believe a healthy, sane and sexual man with a history is likely to exclusively stick around you sans sex for a few years, without getting sex elsewhere while telling you whatever fairy tale fantasy you want to hear?
> 
> Do you really believe a man with a healthy sex drive and a sexual history, is mentally healthy if he is willing to exclusively stick around you sans any sex at all for a few years?



I have no intention of repeating the infidelity I endured in my first marriage, not at all. The infidelity occurred out of my ex-husbands own free will. He didn't care about anyone else but himself. I am not responsible for him walking out the door to sleep around, you did not say this I am just mentioning it anyway. There is nothing I could have done to stop my ex-husband cheating behind my back. To me it is simple, if he really must have sex right now or next week then he is free to go. I have given him this option. He doesn't have to be with me and he could quite easily find someone easy and willing to go all the way tomorrow because I am not this sort of person.


----------



## Personal

Threeblessings said:


> It is true, Personal. I am concerned that he comes across as needy sometimes or maybe he sees what he does as being thoughtful and maybe caring? What I mean by this is that I received numerous text messages every day, Facebook declarations of love, phone calls and invites to sleep over (and he assures me that we will not have sex).


That's what I am worried about, it's too much, too fast, plus too needy and they are all serious red flags.

If he just wanted to have sex with you without declaring his love for you so early and all the rest with such frequency I wouldn't be concerned.

But he is coming on too fast emotionally and that is cause for pause. You ought to be comfortable and you ought to feel safe and you ought to be sure.

If you want to wait, trust yourself and wait.


----------



## Threeblessings

Personal said:


> That's what I am worried about, it's too much, too fast, plus too needy and they are all serious red flags.
> 
> If he just wanted to have sex with you without declaring his love for you so early and all the rest with such frequency I wouldn't be concerned.
> 
> But he is coming on too fast emotionally and that is cause for pause. You ought to be comfortable and you ought to feel safe and you ought to be sure.
> 
> If you want to wait, trust yourself and wait.


Thank you, I have asked for space already as it is too much too soon and if anything what is going on will make me start shutting him out and distancing myself.


----------



## Personal

Threeblessings said:


> I have no intention of repeating the infidelity I endured in my first marriage, not at all. The infidelity occurred out of my ex-husbands own free will. He didn't care about anyone else but himself. I am not responsible for him walking out the door to sleep around, you did not say this I am just mentioning it anyway. To me it is simple, if he really must have sex right now or next week then he is free to go. I have given him this option. He doesn't have to be with me and he could quite easily find someone easy and willing to go all the way tomorrow because I am not this sort of person.


Of course you have no intention, and of course you are not responsible, since cheating is a conscious choice.

That said unless an adult sexual man with a life behind him is neutered, it is unlikely he would choose abstinence for years on the off chance he might get married and that the following marriage might work.

At you're age If he is prepared to wait for years without sex, you should be very cognisant of the fact that he may not be quite right in the head, he may to be a lying cheater, or he has no interest in sex at all.


----------



## Personal

Best of luck @Threeblessings I know it's all not that easy and not all that simple.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

I was in the same place with my extremely religious wife. I always stopped when she asked and the first time we had sex was at her direction. Not gonna lie, I took my chances here and there until it happened. So, I probably see it a little differently than others. Still, if it doesn't stop move on. I don't care whether it is religion, atheism, spite or any other reason for no sex before marriage, your line is your line and it needs to be respected.


----------



## Holland

Threeblessings said:


> Thank you. I haven't introduced him to the children yet as my daughter is has been crying about the divorce. Their father moved a new woman into my house 5 minutes after I moved out. This also threw a spanner in the works. I would rather give it a little more time before I introduce him to them. For some this is probably ridiculous but my kids have been through a lot and the breakup of the marriage hurt them more than I imagined. He's got pets, dogs actually and loves them to bits.


3B I have said it here too often but will again because I like you. When Mr H and I realised we had a potential LTR on our hands we started talking about our respective children and how to go about bring them all together. We sought professional guidance and the standard response was to wait at least 12 months before introducing new partners and step kids to each other. It takes at a minimum 2 years to know if a relationship is viable and the worst thing you can do is to have new partners in and out of your kids lives.
We ended up doing an all in meet at a local outdoor event at around the 10 month mark. By this time we both felt in love with each other, our core values, morals, interests and life plans aligned. We both have very similar views on parenting, money, ex's etc.

We waited and very much planned out how we would introduce the whole clan and what our ground rules were for blending families. 4 years post meet up and we are one of the healthiest blended families I know of. It is not an easy balancing act and not something to ever be taken lightly. This is completely different to a primary family situation.

TBH I think the bigger red flag for your relationship is that he is not a parent and you have 3 children. That is going to be a very difficult life in many respects.


----------



## Vega

Personal said:


> Not wanting to rush into a marriage is quite sensible, choosing to abstain from sex until marriage for a prolonged period (years?) with a partner who desires sex is no protection against marital infidelity.


Let's put the shoe on the other foot for a moment...

Is it "sensible" for a woman to have sex with a man who _delays_ asking her to marry him for a "prolonged period (years!)"? 

How long should she "wait" for HIM? 

What's her recourse if he decides that he doesn't want to get married and/or doesn't want to marry HER?


----------



## Vega

Personal said:


> Do you really believe a healthy, sane and sexual man with a history is likely to exclusively stick around you sans sex for a few years, without getting sex elsewhere while telling you whatever fairy tale fantasy you want to hear?


Men do this EVERY DAY whether they're getting sex or not! It's called, "Future Faking". A man could promote undying "devotion" and the desire to marry her whether he's having sex with her or not.

And the marriage doesn't happen. 

Just how often is a woman expected to go thru this without being labeled a "****" or "loose"? Seem like she can't win, no matter WHAT she does!


----------



## Personal

Vega said:


> Personal said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not wanting to rush into a marriage is quite sensible, choosing to abstain from sex until marriage for a prolonged period (years?) with a partner who desires sex is no protection against marital infidelity.
> 
> 
> 
> Let's put the shoe on the other foot for a moment...
Click to expand...

There's no need for other feet, what you have quoted is gender neutral and applicable to all, hence my using the word "partner" as opposed to "woman" or "man".



Vega said:


> Is it "sensible" for a woman to have sex with a man who _delays_ asking her to marry him for a "prolonged period (years!)"?


Lest one ends up being married to someone who will only attempt to have sex while wearing scuba gear in a vat of custard (unless one likes that kind of thing). Yes it is sensible for a woman or a man to have sex, with a man or a woman (whomever is applicable) that delays asking for marriage.



Vega said:


> How long should she "wait" for HIM?


She or he ought to wait for whomever is applicable either HIM or HER, for only as long as they want to wait and for no longer.



Vega said:


> What's her recourse if he decides that he doesn't want to get married and/or doesn't want to marry HER?


Her and his recourse is to not marry whichever HIM or HER in that instance is applicable.


----------



## ConanHub

Threeblessings said:


> It is true, Personal. I am concerned that he comes across as needy sometimes or maybe he sees what he does as being thoughtful and maybe caring? What I mean by this is that I received numerous text messages every day, Facebook declarations of love, phone calls and invites to sleep over (and he assures me that we will not have sex).


That does seem too needy. 

My alarms might be going off here as well.

His overall outlook doesn't seem that comfortable or healthy.

Good line of questions @Personal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ConanHub

Personal said:


> Not wanting to rush into a marriage is quite sensible, choosing to abstain from sex until marriage for a prolonged period (years?) with a partner who desires sex is no protection against marital infidelity.
> 
> In fact such an approach probably puts you at greater risk of suffering from infidelity rather than protecting you from it. Many nominal Christians cheat on their sexual partners. Absent being able to read someones mind if they do not want to share and or are good at guarding their secrets, you will never know what's inside their head.
> 
> If your partner really desires sex and is not just letting you think he does. It is unlikely he will over the long term in practice actually abstain from having sex (with others absent you) for a prolonged period of time.
> 
> There are plenty of women who have married charming, safe men who they thought desired sex with them but in the end they didn't at all.
> 
> Why are you inclined to do things that are likely to see you rinse and repeat your marital infidelity experience?
> 
> Since you will now not have sex before marriage as opposed to before when you did have sex before marriage (reading TAM it is evident the "nice guys" you want, resent the hell out of that kind of thing), how long do you think any of your potential (experienced and very adult – non High School) suitors should have to wait before you marry them in order for them to get to have sex with you?
> 
> The dilemma you face is as follows; How do you get a healthy, sane and sexual man with a history to exclusively stick around you (who also has a history), sans any sex at all ever throughout a sufficient time period that allows you to determine marital compatibility, factoring in the past, ex's, kids, work, lifestyle, credit, finances and let's not forget sexual proclivities?
> 
> Do you really believe a healthy, sane and sexual man with a history is likely to exclusively stick around you sans sex for a few years, without getting sex elsewhere while telling you whatever fairy tale fantasy you want to hear?
> 
> Do you really believe a man with a healthy sex drive and a sexual history, is mentally healthy if he is willing to exclusively stick around you sans any sex at all for a few years?


I honestly wouldn't stick around for years but I wouldn't need years to determine suitability of a mate.

I knew my wife was the one from first sight and that was way before Christianity.

I'm for getting to know someone before marriage but sex really doesn't have to be part of the equation or years of waiting.

I do think this fellow is probably wrong for her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Vega said:


> Men do this EVERY DAY whether they're getting sex or not! It's called, "Future Faking". A man could promote undying "devotion" and the desire to marry her whether he's having sex with her or not.!


Women do this everyday as well. Sugar Daddies don't always get sex and there are promises upon promises made that do not come to fruition. At the end of the day, as an adult, a person needs to decide if they are being played or not. If you make a mistake, oh well, the person should have respected your boundaries. So, really, you made no mistake at all.


----------



## Anon Pink

ConanHub said:


> I have seen conversation and education do a far better job, especially where Christians are concerned, than fvcking people until you find a good ride.
> 
> I was no where near as compatible with Mrs. Conan as I was with other women but we worked our asses off and have very hot sex.
> 
> We are now more compatible than any other partner we have had.
> 
> Education and training takes care of business. At least that I have observed and experienced in my community.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am totally in support of education but think sex training might be a tad freaky! :laugh:

Can we at least agree that there is a sensible middle ground between not bedding your intended for 3 years while you get to know each other, and bedding a new guy every other week?

Conan, you might be one of the very few Christians here who have a kick ass sex life. You are the exception and not the rule. Strict religious training to inhibit the sex drive does not just go away once married. The child raised to inhibit sex becomes an adult who represses sexuality. 

You can't have a great marriage with out a great sex life. Expecting the sex to just magically be magical is practically a guarantee that you wil have a lousy sex life.


----------



## Anon Pink

Vega said:


> Oh brother...
> 
> May I remind you that MOST of the people who are married and complaining about their "lousy" sex life, once had a GREAT sex life...with _each other_..._BEFORE_ marriage...and somewhat AFTER marriage. They DID "try-before-you-buy" and guess what...? They're _now_ complaining about having a "lousy" sex life!
> 
> Even if you have a GREAT sex life with your partner and go on to marry that partner, there's no guarantee that the "GREAT" sex life will continue. Life is fluid; not stagnant, and people can and DO change.
> 
> Therefore, sex _before_ marriage is NOT a good "barometer" for how sex will be _after_ marriage. There are way too many variables that can affect sex.
> 
> And most of the time, sex wasn't the REAL issue anyway.


Oh sister....

I draw your attention to the multitude of threads in SIM in which the wife, and it's always the wife because ...slvt shaming is a religion sponsored sport... Was a virgin till the wedding day and they've never had a good sex life and the husband can't get the wife to talk about it and instead she calls him a pervert for wanting sex... One of the first questions asked is....what religion was her family of origin.

Life is fluid and nothing stays the same. But here is something that is a pretty good predictor, though not full proof: if the wife refuses sex till marriage because of religion, and she is a fully functioning adult, she doesn't have much of a sex drive and chances are she never will.

Tell you what, when your religion starts teaching kids about sexuality, how to orgasm, how often they should masturbate, how to talk about sex with your perspective partner, then we can talk about how good it is to be celebrate until marriage. Until then, any claims you make are nothing but smoke in the wind.


----------



## optimalprimus

Personal said:


> Of course you have no intention, and of course you are not responsible, since cheating is a conscious choice.
> 
> That said unless an adult sexual man with a life behind him is neutered, it is unlikely he would choose abstinence for years on the off chance he might get married and that the following marriage might work.
> 
> At you're age If he is prepared to wait for years without sex, you should be very cognisant of the fact that he may not be quite right in the head, he may to be a lying cheater, or he has no interest in sex at all.


This guy is clearly interested in sex!

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk


----------



## Cynthia

Anon Pink said:


> Conan, you might be one of the very few Christians here who have a kick ass sex life. You are the exception and not the rule. Strict religious training to inhibit the sex drive does not just go away once married. The child raised to inhibit sex becomes an adult who represses sexuality.


There is no way to know that. If someone has a great sex life, they won't be complaining about it and may not feel the need to talk about it either. There are many things that can cause people to be repressed sexually. Improper teaching about sex and bodies in childhood is one of them. My children were raised in my Christian home and were taught that God made our bodies and called them good and that He made sex and made it to be pleasurable.


----------



## jorgegene

The propsition of 'sleepovers' without sex is a bad idea to me no
matter how good the intentions.

if you are determined to keep your vows; way too much temptation.

Like; "we'll go for a ride in my jaguar, but we'll keep it under 50mph. I promise."


----------



## jorgegene

I am one of those who waited, for this current marriage, 
although we are both seasoned individuals.
but we took a vow to wait between us.
like conan says, the chemistry between us was enough to know
with fair certainty. Nothing is close to certain no matter what you do.

believe me, our sex lives are way beyond good and the best sex of our lives for both of us.


----------



## larry.gray

CynthiaDe said:


> My children were raised in my Christian home and were taught that God made our bodies and called them good and that He made sex and made it to be pleasurable.


I was raised in such a household, but I think they are the exception not the norm in many Christian households. My mother was adamant about it because she was raised in a repressed household. 

I saw too many of my fellow parish members who were raised in households where sex was considered bad.


----------



## thefam

I wonder if the notion that abstaining from sex before marriage leads to sexual repression is a thing with denominational Churches. I say this because I was raised in a non denominational Christian church which taught abstaining and my mother reinforced this. However, it is constantly taught that after marriage, have sex early and often. Our women's group at church breaks down quarterly into married and singles sessions and I can tell you that there does not seem to be any sexual repression whatsoever in these married women. They ask if it's okay to do some of the kinkiest stuff in marriage that even I have not heard of. Our Pastor says it all the time from the pulpit that husbands and wives should not deny themselves of each other. My Mother who has been a devout Christian all her life; one of her 3 instructions to me on marriage was don't turn your husband down for sex. And I have been to some bridal showers with Christian women that would put Victoria's Secret to shame. I'm talking about born again, bible believing Christian women. 

Maybe sexual repression with Christians has become a thing of the past. Our sex education in youth groups always stressed that sex was reserved for marriage and that within marriage it is a beautiful gift from God that binds your relationship together. I would say this is pretty much across the board with non denominational, charismatic Christian churches. Pastors make sexual inuendoes about/toward their wives all the time from the pulpit that has the congregation roaring. 

I did not wait to have sex before marriage, but I know at least one of my older sisters did. She has 3 kids that I babysit overnight from time to time, even though they are old enough to take care of themselves. I have asked her where she and her husband are going for their "date" and she says "nowhere." So I say well why do you need a babysitter and she just gives me this blank stare. 

I always wonder too why "good little Catholic girls" get a bad rap as being sexually repressed? All of the Catholic families in my hood had more kids than anybody else (always wondered why) so it must have been SOME sex going on in the marriage. 

I just don't buy it that abstaining from sex before marriage leads to sexual repression in marriage. Sex shaming, sure but is there really that much sex shaming taking place in this day and time? And I don't buy it either that you need to be sleeping with a lot of different people until you find one that matches your sex drive. If you both parties enter the marriage understanding that sex is a vital part of marriage that should happen frequently and then hold themselves to that understanding, then that is all that's needed. There are WAY more people that have a vibrant sex life before marriage and then change up after they are married, than people who never have sex before marriage and then go on to have a sexless marriage, just by the sheer numbers of people who have sex before marriage. So that throws that argument out of the window. You probably just as likely to end up with a sexless marriage with somebody you had sex before marriage, as someone who was a virgin.

For myself, we only had extremely vanilla sex before marriage. We both lived with our parents so sex was always on the down low. I never slept (as in the slept in the bed) with my H before marriage, and I'm pretty sure I never took all my clothes off. When I look back on it now, it was probably just maintenance sex to take care of his high sex drive until marriage. But since marriage and even during marriage our sex life is still evolving. Even though our sex life after marriage started off great, our sex life kind of unfolded over time. I only discovered my kinky side after 7 years of marriage (been married 11 years).


----------



## john117

Depends on the denomination as you said. In my birth country the Church is considerably more liberal than most any denomination I've encountered. But in the US the predominant denominations seem to have their way with intimacy. What you describe may be so because of your church's interpretation of things vs. other interpretations. And certainly a Biblical view does present a number of guidelines about married life... 

But at the end of the day stereotypes come into play, so if you ask 100 random people what they think about intimacy in denomination X, they may give you a view based on what they kind of heard vs reality as you presented. This perception gap definitely needs addressing.


----------



## sisters359

There is simply no such thing as "love" at first sight, unless you define love as simply a feeling based on a visual exchange. Most informed people call that feeling "attraction," or, in some cases, "lust." It has everything to do with desire and perhaps--in the minds of the more romantic--with endowing your "loved one" with all sorts of great personality and character traits that you have NO IDEA exist. In your mind, this person is so attractive they *must* be everything you think they are. And that is what passes for "love at first sight."

You should know that people who rush "love" are generally not very emotionally healthy. It is not uncommon to find--after 3 mo, but usually by 6 months--that this person will be a terrible partner and rushed the relationship b/c he or she needed to "secure" a partner b/c he or she could only be on his/her best behavior for a relatively short time. 

Give it 6 months to a year (not necessarily without sex, if you change your mind), and see how "wonderful" this person is. Chances are the facade will have crumbled and you will be seeing who he really is, soon enough. 

As for pressuring you for sex--don't let him. If waiting for marriage is your belief, then honor it. If you fear YOU will give in--out of your own lust, or whatever--then perhaps you should not date him. You should not "fear" giving in; you should decide if you want to have sex. Giving in during a moment of weakness may make you feel really negative toward him or toward yourself, or both. Figure out what to do before anything happens to avoid doing something you may regret.


----------



## samyeagar

Any pressure and religious considerations aside, from a strictly lustful point of view, how badly are you wanting to have sex with this man in particular? How difficult are you finding it to control your lust? How strongly are you anticipating finally having sex with this particular man?


----------



## Threeblessings

samyeagar said:


> Any pressure and religious considerations aside, from a strictly lustful point of view, how badly are you wanting to have sex with this man in particular? How difficult are you finding it to control your lust? How strongly are you anticipating finally having sex with this particular man?


I'm not really sure how to answer this but the temptation was very bad before. I have drawn a line and I don't want to be in that place again. I felt so bad I cried my eyes out. As much as I like him the love isn't there just yet and I can't make myself love him romantically. This man is the complete opposite of my ex-husband as far as I can tell. I started praying last year for someone to enter my life and love me so much.....I thought this man could have been the person I prayed for but then issues with lust and temptation set in and I have changed my view.


----------



## Holland

ConanHub said:


> I honestly wouldn't stick around for years but I wouldn't need years to determine suitability of a mate.
> 
> I knew my wife was the one from first sight and that was way before Christianity.
> 
> I'm for getting to know someone before marriage but sex really doesn't have to be part of the equation or years of waiting.
> 
> I do think this fellow is probably wrong for her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Have you ever been divorced with 3 children to consider? It would be foolish to remarry in anything less than 2 or 3 years when entering into a blended family.

This is a totally different situation to a first marriage with no children involved.


----------



## samyeagar

Threeblessings said:


> I'm not really sure how to answer this *but the temptation was very bad before.* I have drawn a line and I don't want to be in that place again. I felt so bad I cried my eyes out. As much as I like him the love isn't there just yet and I can't make myself love him romantically. This man is the complete opposite of my ex-husband as far as I can tell. I started praying last year for someone to enter my life and love me so much.....I thought this man could have been the person I prayed for but then issues with lust and temptation set in and I have changed my view.


Temptation with this man or a different man?


----------



## ConanHub

Holland said:


> Have you ever been divorced with 3 children to consider? It would be foolish to remarry in anything less than 2 or 3 years when entering into a blended family.
> 
> This is a totally different situation to a first marriage with no children involved.


It isn't foolish.

I married a divorced single mother and I knew she was it fairly quickly. She knew about me as well.

I think this guy doesn't pass the sniff test but me and my wife did.

We will have been together 25 years this October.

We figured out our compatibility after our first date. We sat and talked it through and came to the conclusion that we were the real deal.

I am her third husband and she is my only wife.

Honesty, she would say I am the only man to really be her husband.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Holland

I glad it worked for you CH. It is not the norm though from what I see in others that remarry. It would be prudent for the Op and others to spend time to get to know someone first before committing their kids lives to a second marriage.

How old were your wife's kids at the time if you don't mind answering?


----------



## ConanHub

Holland said:


> I glad it worked for you CH. It is not the norm though from what I see in others that remarry. It would be prudent for the Op and others to spend time to get to know someone first before committing their kids lives to a second marriage.
> 
> How old were your wife's kids at the time if you don't mind answering?


Our oldest son was three when I met her. We had a lot of work to do as well. For a while it was an uphill battle.

OP does need to take some time. I am arguing that it doesn't need to take years and intercourse to figure it out.

This guy doesn't match her values, which is what everyone is saying and he has a couple other flags against him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Threeblessings

samyeagar said:


> Temptation with this man or a different man?


Only with this man, the one I have been seeing. I haven't been with anyone else other than my ex-husband. Sorry I didn't make that very clear.


----------



## frusdil

Holland said:


> TBH I think the bigger red flag for your relationship is that he is not a parent and you have 3 children. That is going to be a very difficult life in many respects.


Not sure about this...it has certainly made things easier for us because of the fact that I don't have children. I think blending families is much harder...




Threeblessings said:


> I'm not really sure how to answer this but the temptation was very bad before. I have drawn a line and I don't want to be in that place again. I felt so bad I cried my eyes out. As much as I like him the love isn't there just yet and I can't make myself love him romantically. This man is the complete opposite of my ex-husband as far as I can tell. I started praying last year for someone to enter my life and love me so much.....I thought this man could have been the person I prayed for but then issues with lust and temptation set in and I have changed my view.


This makes me so sad, and is part of the reason I dislike organised religion so much. Why on earth would you feel guilty for being tempted? I was raised Catholic, but stopped going to church in my early teens. I have my own personal values system and I wouldn't have casual sex, nor jump into sex quickly in a new relationship...but that's to keep my judgement from being clouded, and protect my heart - not a misguided sense of guilt.


----------



## Holland

frusdil said:


> Not sure about this...it has certainly made things easier for us because of the fact that I don't have children. I think blending families is much harder...
> 
> ...................


The OP has 3 kids up to the age of 12, they are not babies any more. Absolutely it will be a hard road for them all, way different to yours and Conans situations.


----------



## Threeblessings

Holland said:


> The OP has 3 kids up to the age of 12, they are not babies any more. Absolutely it will be a hard road for them all, way different to yours and Conans situations.


That's true and as you know the new guy doesn't have any children and he's never been married either.


----------



## Holland

What are your ages 3B?

Of course any situation can work but it is not something to be taken lightly. I had great step parents but we never lived with them so that was easy  One of my ex's mates (in his 40's) who had never married or had kids married a woman with 2 children from memory over 10 years of age. It was very hard going for them, kids rebelled against him, he struggled to work within the step parent boundaries and what started out as a love story type of relationship quickly became a battle field. Yes things can work out just fine but there is a lot more to consider than when you are younger, no kids and getting married for the first time..


----------



## Threeblessings

Holland said:


> What are your ages 3B?
> 
> Of course any situation can work but it is not something to be taken lightly. I had great step parents but we never lived with them so that was easy  One of my ex's mates (in his 40's) who had never married or had kids married a woman with 2 children from memory over 10 years of age. It was very hard going for them, kids rebelled against him, he struggled to work within the step parent boundaries and what started out as a love story type of relationship quickly became a battle field. Yes things can work out just fine but there is a lot more to consider than when you are younger, no kids and getting married for the first time..


We are both 37...so old, hey! I think you're aware of my kids ages but just in case, here they are again. 12, 8 and 5 =).


----------



## chillymorn

By all means be true to thyne own self! With that said, I would like to ask if you and your friend have talked about sex. Not just you can't have the milk until you buy the cow game. 

Things like how frequently would you like to have sex, do you like oral giving and receiving, do you masterbate and how often ,etc.........

As mature adults I would think that learning what a future partner likes and dislikes sexually should be factored in the process of deciding if this particular person is someone you want to be with.

Also their financial situation should be a factor.....have they ever filed bankruptcy, do they owe or have a pile of debt. And if they do are they working hard to get solvent .

I would not want to date someone for months on end only to find out she don't like oral and is up to her eyeballs in credit card debt. And then throws the bible in my face when convenient.

That last statement is not ment to reflect on anybody in this thread. its just how I feel and like I started this post be true to thyne own self.


----------



## Marc878

Never disregard your standards for someone else.

You know how to keep a pastor from drinking and chasing women on a road trip?

Take two of them.

> > >


----------



## Threeblessings

chillymorn said:


> By all means be true to thyne own self! With that said, I would like to ask if you and your friend have talked about sex. Not just you can't have the milk until you buy the cow game.
> 
> Things like how frequently would you like to have sex, do you like oral giving and receiving, do you masterbate and how often ,etc.........
> 
> 
> As mature adults I would think that learning what a future partner likes and dislikes sexually should be factored in the process of deciding if this particular person is someone you want to be with.
> 
> Also their financial situation should be a factor.....have they ever filed bankruptcy, do they owe or have a pile of debt. And if they do are they working hard to get solvent .
> 
> I would not want to date someone for months on end only to find out she don't like oral and is up to her eyeballs in credit card debt. And then throws the bible in my face when convenient.
> 
> That last statement is not ment to reflect on anybody in this thread. its just how I feel and like I started this post be true to thyne own self.


Yes we spoke about sex again over the weekend. He is not in any debt that I know of. He is full time employed and he bought a house a few years ago. He is not addicted to anything and he has never filed for bankruptcy.


----------



## richardsharpe

Good evening
Do you think you are sexually compatible? That is so critical for a happy relationship. 




Threeblessings said:


> Yes we spoke about sex again over the weekend. He is not in any debt that I know of. He is full time employed and he bought a house a few years ago. He is not addicted to anything and he has never filed for bankruptcy.


----------



## Anon Pink

Threeblessings said:


> I realise that he wants sex. He's got a steady job but doesn't have a lot of friends. He lost them he said when he worked away for for 10 years. There's definitely no addictions. Neither of us smoke or drink either.



I used to work in social services dealing with families at risk. Among my tasks was identifying red flags of volunteers. Your guy has 3 glaring red flags, enough that if he had applied with us, he would have been turned down.

Red flag 1. Brand new in your life and over anxious to make the relationship a closely trusted relationship. He is pushing to be accepted by you and your kids. When the VAST majority of men would be okay with distance or scared away at the thought of being step father to 3 little children. This behavior is not a normal expected response.

Red flag 2. Is presenting himself in a disengenuous way. He claims to be a Christian, like you, in order to be accepted by you. Yet you know that he doesn't exactly seem very committed to Christian values.

Red flag 3. He has no peer friends and he is using that to gain sympathy from you. This is a glaring red flag for a single man. It could be that his peers get a strange vibe from him or it could be that they intentionally distanced him. Ask him if he has ever worked with kids in any capacity, volunteered or paid work. A man with no peer friends even though he once did have friends, who also spends his time working with children presents a red flag. 

When a man has 2 or more red flags you should start intentionally searching for more.

Just for the sake of avoiding argument, men are not the only child molesters but they are a very large segment of that population.

Go here and enter your zip code. Also enter his. You may not find his name but you should be able to cross reference using the attached photos.

Family Watchdog


----------



## chillymorn

Ok I just got to say it.

every Christian is a sinner. period.

some Christians sin a whole bunch. some pick and choose which sins are acceptable.

so judging this guy as a poor Christian because he wants a piece of fur pie makes no sense to me.

Christianity isn't about being saved by your merits is about believing Jesus died for our sins. and being repentant when you do sin.


----------



## Marduk

Wow, religion sometimes really screws up sex. 

How are you supposed to know you're sexually compatible before you get married unless you have enough sex to know?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Miss Independent

marduk said:


> How are you supposed to know you're sexually compatible before you get married unless you have enough sex to know?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




If the above is true, why do people who have sex before marriage "become " incompatible? 


I don't get the whole bashing of her values. People need to learn to respect other people's values/way of living. 

She shouldn't be told that she needs to have with her current bf because she doesn't want to. Again, why are people trying to convince her to have sex before marriage when she doesn't want to????????! 

I wouldn't wait until I get married to have sex; however, I wouldn't try to convince anyone to follow my path.


----------



## Marduk

spinsterdurga said:


> If the above is true, why do people who have sex before marriage "become " incompatible?


Complacency.




> I don't get the whole bashing of her values. People need to learn to respect other people's values/way of living.
> 
> She shouldn't be told that she needs to have with her current bf because she doesn't want to. Again, why are people trying to convince her to have sex before marriage when she doesn't want to????????!
> 
> I wouldn't wait until I get married to have sex; however, I wouldn't try to convince anyone to follow my path.


Not bashing her values. I'm saying I don't understand them.

She can have sex with him or not. I won't have a different opinion of her either way.

What I sure would say is don't marry the dude unless you really, really think that all parts of the relationship are actually going to work.


----------



## Miss Independent

marduk said:


> Not bashing her values. I'm saying I don't understand them.
> 
> 
> 
> .



They're HER values. She's not asking anyone to adhere to them. So why do you need to understand them? 




marduk said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> She can have sex with him or not. I won't have a different opinion of her either way.
> 
> 
> 
> .




You actually had an opinion about her not having sex with him due to her religion....


----------



## Marduk

spinsterdurga said:


> They're HER values. She's not asking anyone to adhere to them. So why do you need to understand them?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You actually had an opinion about her not having sex with him due to her religion....


Lol. Sorry for the detail folks. 

What I'm specifically not understanding is how you operationalize said values. 

In short, how do you know you're not marrying a sexual dud? Or low drive? Or no chemistry together? Or not open to your kinks?

Is that where "until death do you part" comes in? In other words, you just take the risk and live with it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Vega

marduk said:


> How are you supposed to know you're sexually compatible before you get married unless you have enough sex to know?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Define "enough". 

Also, I'm sorry to say this but the double-standard is STILL alive and well. Just look at some of the threads here on TAM. 

Seems to be more acceptable for a man to have had "enough" sex with "enough" partners before marriage but if the woman he is considering marrying has had the same amount of partners or "more" sex than he has, there are issues. 

Now granted. *ALL* men do not think this way, but there are still a fair number who do. And yes, there are some women who tend to look down on other women who are sexually "active". 

It isn't just 'religion' that "screws people up".


----------



## Vega

marduk said:


> Lol. Sorry for the detail folks.
> 
> What I'm specifically not understanding is how you operationalize said values.
> 
> In short, how do you know you're not marrying a sexual dud? Or low drive? Or no chemistry together? Or not open to your kinks?
> 
> Is that where "until death do you part" comes in? In other words, you just take the risk and live with it?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Perhaps if both people remained 'chaste' until marriage, they would learn to work through these issues together...?


----------



## Marduk

Vega said:


> Define "enough".
> 
> Also, I'm sorry to say this but the double-standard is STILL alive and well. Just look at some of the threads here on TAM.
> 
> Seems to be more acceptable for a man to have had "enough" sex with "enough" partners before marriage but if the woman he is considering marrying has had the same amount of partners or "more" sex than he has, there are issues.
> 
> Now granted. *ALL* men do not think this way, but there are still a fair number who do. And yes, there are some women who tend to look down on other women who are sexually "active".
> 
> It isn't just 'religion' that "screws people up".


Huh?

I was talking about if the sex they are going to have together while married is going to be good enough not to cause problems in the marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Marduk

Vega said:


> Perhaps if both people remained 'chaste' until marriage, they would learn to work through these issues together...?


Listen.

I've slept with plenty of women and it just didn't work very well. It could have been me, it could have been her, or it could have been that we just didn't work together. 

The best sex we could have had would have just been... Ok. 

Take, for example, when I discovered that the girl liked to essentially be a dominatrix. Sure, it was fun once or twice, but it just wasn't my bag long term. Your kinks are your kinks, and they either are celebrated and work, or just tolerated. 

Same goes for body shapes, sexual styles, chemistry, hell even tastes and smells.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Miss Independent

marduk said:


> In short, how do you know you're not marrying a sexual dud? Or low drive? Or no chemistry together? Or not open to your kinks?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




Is the op HD? The op has stated that they have chemistry, or are you saying that you know more about whether they have chemistry or not. The op has clearly stated that they do, yet people keep questioning it? 

Does the op have any kinks? 

I think people are not answering with the op's situations in mind. You know you're HD and assume that she's as well, or you have kinks and think that she must have some as well.


----------



## Evinrude58

I do think a person with no life- long or long term friends is a red flag. 
Other than that, I disagree with the flags above. He likes you. He wants to have sex with you. He says he loves you. After a couple of months of steady dating, I see little wrong with that. I assure you, he could find plenty of sex if he wanted to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Marduk

spinsterdurga said:


> Is the op HD? The op has stated that they have chemistry, or are you saying that you know more about whether they have chemistry or not. The op has clearly stated that they do, yet people keep questioning it?
> 
> Does the op have any kinks?
> 
> I think people are not answering with the op's situations in mind. You know you're HD and assume that she's as well, or you have kinks and think that she must have some as well.


How do you know you have sexual chemistry without having sex?

You can say you have attraction. But I've been strongly attracted to women and things fizzled when we got naked.

And the woman I talked about being (almost) a dominatrix didn't know or say that was her style, it was just the way she had always been. At least that's what she said to me.


----------



## Threeblessings

Anon Pink said:


> I used to work in social services dealing with families at risk. Among my tasks was identifying red flags of volunteers. Your guy has 3 glaring red flags, enough that if he had applied with us, he would have been turned down.
> 
> Red flag 1. Brand new in your life and over anxious to make the relationship a closely trusted relationship. He is pushing to be accepted by you and your kids. When the VAST majority of men would be okay with distance or scared away at the thought of being step father to 3 little children. This behavior is not a normal expected response.
> 
> Red flag 2. Is presenting himself in a disengenuous way. He claims to be a Christian, like you, in order to be accepted by you. Yet you know that he doesn't exactly seem very committed to Christian values.
> 
> Red flag 3. He has no peer friends and he is using that to gain sympathy from you. This is a glaring red flag for a single man. It could be that his peers get a strange vibe from him or it could be that they intentionally distanced him. Ask him if he has ever worked with kids in any capacity, volunteered or paid work. A man with no peer friends even though he once did have friends, who also spends his time working with children presents a red flag.
> 
> When a man has 2 or more red flags you should start intentionally searching for more.
> 
> Just for the sake of avoiding argument, men are not the only child molesters but they are a very large segment of that population.
> 
> Go here and enter your zip code. Also enter his. You may not find his name but you should be able to cross reference using the attached photos.
> 
> Family Watchdog



Oh my word AP, can you become my psychologist, please? You are actually spot on about sympathy and it didn't occur to me until now. He has mentioned before that feels like his father doesn't like him or love him. He also said that his father is a hard tough man and is not affectionate at all. However he is very affectionate with me. To answer your other question, he has never worked with children in paid work or in a volunteer capacity.


----------



## Threeblessings

marduk said:


> How do you know you have sexual chemistry without having sex?
> 
> You can say you have attraction. But I've been strongly attracted to women and things fizzled when we got naked.
> 
> And the woman I talked about being (almost) a dominatrix didn't know or say that was her style, it was just the way she had always been. At least that's what she said to me.


Well without being explicit we talked about his. There is a physical attraction and I will probably get blasted for this but based on what is already there I think we would be fine in the bedroom. Some people marry as virgins and they learn together. Sex is in addition to a relationship it is not the basis or foundation of its success in my opinion.


----------



## Threeblessings

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> Do you think you are sexually compatible? That is so critical for a happy relationship.


Quite possibly. Relationships are lots of things and sex is not going to protect or bind any relationship. If that's the case it is a venture and not a relationship in my opinion.


----------



## Threeblessings

chillymorn said:


> Ok I just got to say it.
> 
> every Christian is a sinner. period.
> 
> some Christians sin a whole bunch. some pick and choose which sins are acceptable.
> 
> so judging this guy as a poor Christian because he wants a piece of fur pie makes no sense to me.
> 
> Christianity isn't about being saved by your merits is about believing Jesus died for our sins. and being repentant when you do sin.


I agree every Christian is a sinner. Having said that if we know it is wrong to do something, it doesn't make it okay to go and do it anyway just because we can pray afterwards and ask for forgiveness??? Is that what you are trying to say?


----------



## Threeblessings

spinsterdurga said:


> If the above is true, why do people who have sex before marriage "become " incompatible?
> 
> 
> I don't get the whole bashing of her values. People need to learn to respect other people's values/way of living.
> 
> She shouldn't be told that she needs to have with her current bf because she doesn't want to. Again, why are people trying to convince her to have sex before marriage when she doesn't want to????????!
> 
> I wouldn't wait until I get married to have sex; however, I wouldn't try to convince anyone to follow my path.



Thank you. Also, having sex before marriage is no guarantee that I would actually marry this guy and not only that it doesn't mean a relationship is more secure because of it either. I don't want to give myself away regardless of chemistry and compatibility which a lot of people are mentioning in this forum.


----------



## karole

You reAlly need to read Anon pinks last post a couple of times and really let it sink in. You really should be focusing on your kids and put men on the back burner for awhile


----------



## Threeblessings

marduk said:


> Wow, religion sometimes really screws up sex.
> 
> How are you supposed to know you're sexually compatible before you get married unless you have enough sex to know?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How do you know your relationship would either way? I believe if 'chemistry' exists between two people and beyond that it is possible to learn. Do people just fall out of love if their wife, husband, boyfriend or girlfriend isn't good enough in that department? I don't think so. Should it happen it wasn't love to start with.


----------



## tech-novelist

WorkingOnMe said:


> I think you know there's a huge difference between a high school virgin and a middle aged divorcée with three kids and a fully informed sexual history. Religion is a great excuse to avoid the sex one does not want. Up until the point when religion instructs one to give it up regularly. At which point the ld ignores it.


Exactly. Although I'm not a Biblical scholar, my understanding is that according to the Bible, divorced women were never supposed to remarry at all but were considered still married to their ex-husbands. So I don't think the Bible is really relevant in this case.


----------



## Threeblessings

Vega said:


> Perhaps if both people remained 'chaste' until marriage, they would learn to work through these issues together...?


Like x 1000


----------



## Threeblessings

Evinrude58 said:


> I do think a person with no life- long or long term friends is a red flag.
> Other than that, I disagree with the flags above. He likes you. He wants to have sex with you. He says he loves you. After a couple of months of steady dating, I see little wrong with that. I assure you, he could find plenty of sex if he wanted to.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes he could if he wanted to but he chooses not to do this because he wants a loving relationship and not something that is just about sex.


----------



## Threeblessings

tech-novelist said:


> Exactly. Although I'm not a Biblical scholar, my understanding is that according to the Bible, divorced women were never supposed to remarry at all but were considered still married to their ex-husbands. So I don't think the Bible is really relevant in this case.


No, in the bible it says that a woman can divorce her husband where adultery has occurred. For this reason, I am free to remarry. My ex-husband made the decision to cheat.


----------



## Threeblessings

karole said:


> You reAlly need to read Anon pinks last post a couple of times and really let it sink in. You really should be focusing on your kids and put men on the back burner for awhile


You're right... I seem to be heading in this direction . I'm torn because I don't want to break his heart, he will be devastated. I recently asked for space but in his eyes we are just as strong as we were before this.


----------



## Adelais

Matthew 9:9
"And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”

And it says the same thing in several other places.


----------



## Adelais

Threeblessings, follow your conscience. There are men out there who also want to refrain from sex before marriage, they just aren't the norm, or ordinary. But you're looking for an extraordinary man, right? 

Just because you refrain from acting on your sexual feelings doesn't mean that you will not have a strong desire for each other. It just means that you both be doing your best to control yourselves until marriage.


----------



## Threeblessings

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> Threeblessings, follow your conscience. There are men out there who also want to refrain from sex before marriage, they just aren't the norm, or ordinary. But you're looking for an extraordinary man, right?
> 
> Just because you refrain from acting on your sexual feelings doesn't mean that you will not have a strong desire for each other. It just means that you both be doing your best to control yourselves until marriage.


If by extraordinary you mean someone that has maybe similar values, isn't a compulsive liar, hasn't and does not have intentions to cheat, someone respectful and loving....then I suppose I am waiting for someone who is RIGHT for me and my readymade family. He doesn't need to be perfect but extraordinary to me is a Godly, Christian man. This would be completely different to what I had before so I believe it could be more successful than my disaster of a marriage.


----------



## Threeblessings

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> Matthew 9:9
> "And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”
> 
> And it says the same thing in several other places.


 @tech-novelist


----------



## Spotthedeaddog

Threeblessings said:


> Sorry if this is not the correct forum for my issue.
> 
> I've been seeing someone for about 2 months. This man tells me and shows me that he loves me all the time. However, he is also pushing me to have sex and I am not ready to even go there......Although I was separated for 2 and a half years and then divorced some weeks ago my faith tells me I should not do this outside of marriage. I will not lie, the temptation has reared itself many times and I fear giving into him and then regretting it forever.
> 
> I don't know what to do .:crying:



ignore him.

think of who and want _you_ decide to be.
doesn't mean you have to be some hardline fundamentalist, but just be certain how and what _you_ are accepting.


----------



## richardsharpe

Good evening
Please don't underestimate the problems in a relationship caused by sexual incompatibility. If you read the LD/HD threads here you will find so many couples where one feels constantly rejected and unloved, and the other feels constantly pressured and un-valued. 

Chemistry may exist, but a good sex life takes more than that. There are couples who hug and kiss and take moonlit walks - where there is romance and intimacy....up to a point. But where one or the other simply doesn't want or rarely wants actual sex, leaving their partners miserable. 

For some people sex is not critically important. That is absolutely fine, as long as they get into relationships with people who feel similarly. Its not about right or wrong but about being compatible. 


Of course there are many other things that can cause a relationship to fail, but many of those are visible during dating (if you know to look). 





Threeblessings said:


> How do you know your relationship would either way? I believe if 'chemistry' exists between two people and beyond that it is possible to learn. Do people just fall out of love if their wife, husband, boyfriend or girlfriend isn't good enough in that department? I don't think so. Should it happen it wasn't love to start with.


----------



## tech-novelist

_Quote:
Originally Posted by IMFarAboveRubies View Post
Matthew 9:9
"And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”

And it says the same thing in several other places. @tech-novelist _

Yes, that is for a man divorcing his wife. Where does it say that a wife can divorce her husband?


----------



## Marduk

Threeblessings said:


> If by extraordinary you mean someone that has maybe similar values, isn't a compulsive liar, hasn't and does not have intentions to cheat, someone respectful and loving....then I suppose I am waiting for someone who is RIGHT for me and my readymade family. He doesn't need to be perfect but extraordinary to me is a Godly, Christian man. This would be completely different to what I had before so I believe it could be more successful than my disaster of a marriage.


If that's the case, just tell him no sex until marriage, and you're not ready to marry him.

He'll either accept that and respect your decision, or he won't.

What do I mean by respecting your decision? Not pushing you on it further. However, breaking up with you because that's not what he wants is also respecting your decision.

What isn't respecting your decision is to stay with you, and pressure you about what your boundary is.


----------



## Vega

tech-novelist said:


> _Quote:
> Originally Posted by IMFarAboveRubies View Post
> Matthew 9:9
> "And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”
> 
> And it says the same thing in several other places.
> @tech-novelist _
> 
> Yes, that is for a man divorcing his wife. Where does it say that a wife can divorce her husband?


The second paragraph in the Declaration of Independence states, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all* Men* are created equal..."

Are we to believe that this doesn't apply to women?


----------



## Adelais

@tech-novelist, you are being disingenuous. You don't believe in the Bible, and you should not be splitting hairs with threeblessings using the Bible.

This last time, to entertain you, here is a theological excercise:

Galatians 3:28 *"There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."
*
So threeblessings is not different from a Christian or Jewish (Christ believing) male or female, with regards to spiritual matters. Marriage is a covenant between God and man (mankind, not males), and is a spiritual matter.

Being that there is no spiritual difference between man and woman, if a man can divorce a wife, a wife can divorce her husband for the same reasons.

Since Christianity is founded on the Hebrew scriptures, it is sometimes wise and helpful to look to the Hebrew interpretation of the Old Testament scriptures.

Here is a very good analysis by rabbis regarding the circumstances under which a wife can divorce her husband, according to Old Testament Laws. There is even more freedom as well as a higher standard brought with the New Covenant (through Jesus, the Messiah.)

The Wife's Grounds for Divorce - Divorce

Beyond this post, I will not discuss faith matters with you, as you have full access to a Bible and the internet, and if you are truly seeking, you can do your own research.


----------



## Vega

tech-novelist said:


> _Quote:
> Originally Posted by IMFarAboveRubies View Post
> Matthew 9:9
> "And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”
> 
> And it says the same thing in several other places.
> @tech-novelist _
> 
> Yes, that is for a man divorcing his wife. *Where does it say that a wife can divorce her husband*?


"So in *everything*, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." Matthew 7:12


----------



## samyeagar

Threeblessings said:


> If by extraordinary you mean someone that has maybe similar values, isn't a compulsive liar, hasn't and does not have intentions to cheat, someone respectful and loving....then I suppose I am waiting for someone who is RIGHT for me and my readymade family. He doesn't need to be perfect but extraordinary to me is a Godly, Christian man. This would be completely different to what I had before so I believe it could be more successful than my disaster of a marriage.


Have you considered backing out of the dating scene altogether so you can focus on you, and your children? A lot of what you have said in this thread leaves me with the feeling that you still have unresolved issues that you need to work through before you can be in a healthy, fulfilling, complete relationship. That you are trying to force something that you are not ready for yet.


----------



## tech-novelist

So to summarize, @Threeblessings is following the Bible except when it is sexist. Thanks for clearing that up!


----------



## tech-novelist

Vega said:


> The second paragraph in the Declaration of Independence states, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all* Men* are created equal..."
> 
> Are we to believe that this doesn't apply to women?


I didn't realize that the Declaration of Independence was part of the Bible.

But then I've already said that I wasn't a Biblical scholar, so thanks for the information.


----------



## Cynthia

tech-novelist said:


> So to summarize, @Threeblessings is following the Bible except when it is sexist. Thanks for clearing that up!


Is English your second language or are you purposefully obtuse?


----------



## Marduk

Not a religious dude, but isn't it kinda standard practice to pick and choose what you want to follow?

I mean, I don't see a lot of Christian people not wearing two different kinds of fabric like Leviticus says. Hell Deuteronomy says you should kill people that have bad dreams.

It's full of contradictions, mistranslations, and oddities. And that's after the Council of Nicaea tried to 'rationalize' it 300 years after Jesus. I hope I don't offend anyone by saying that.

I don't think trying to make sense of it yourself is a big deal. In fact, I think it's a good thing. 

I think different kinds of cattle grazing together is nice.


----------



## SadSamIAm

Divorced Woman - Guessing Mid 30s - 3 Young Kids - No Sex until married

Divorced - No Big Deal
Mid 30s - Fine
3 Young Kids - Tough One
No Sex Until Married - Very Tough One

I am guessing the no sex thing severely limits the number of prospects out there for the OP. 

Guessing the best guys will stay away. Chance of getting some desperate guy increases. Also, greatly increases the chances that marriage happens too soon (before really getting to know each other).

I am all for boundaries, but just realize what you are setting yourself up for.


----------



## Adelais

My husband was a virgin, and he had good friends who were also virgins (all Christians.) As far as we know, they all found wonderful spouses (not all virgins, but no longer sleeping around due to their newfound faith) and they are all still married!

This isn't about anyone else's beliefs and values but Threeblessings'. She waited for 2 years to begin dating, so I'm sure she will also be willing to take her time to find Mr. Right, who isn't desperate or a weirdo, but who has similar values and is looking for a committed Christian spouse like she is.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> Threeblessings, follow your conscience. * There are men out there who also want to refrain from sex before marriage, they just aren't the norm, or ordinary. But you're looking for an extraordinary man, right? *
> 
> Just because you refrain from acting on your sexual feelings doesn't mean that you will not have a strong desire for each other. It just means that you both be doing your best to control yourselves until marriage.


I like this post.. but I do feel such men are sooooo very rare...

If you ever do the dating online thing.... I'd only put your profile on Christian sites.. I think "Christian Mingle" is one of those.. it will be very difficult to find a man willing to wait very long in this day & age....

I think this is much easier if we're in our teens.. but once it's been tasted.. not many are willing to revert back as though they are virgins again...that is surely waiting for the exceptional.... you don't want to end up like this either....









Just trying to be realistic in today's sexed up society where it seems men never want to marry & expect sex or are divorced men who've suffered due to having a low drive/ no drive wife & would never risk this again.. having a very low tolerance for holding out.. feeling "here we go again"...

Surely you & this guy (haven't been following this , so not sure what's happening)..but surely you & he can work this out some way.. so you're both happy... while the emotional connection grows.. with your still feeling respected.. but not going all the way.. 

I don't know.. I guess I think some riding of the fence is Ok.. but then again. this is why I can't call myself a christian either.


----------



## SadSamIAm

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> My husband was a virgin, and he had good friends who were also virgins (all Christians.) As far as we know, they all found wonderful spouses (not all virgins, but no longer sleeping around due to their newfound faith) and they are all still married!
> 
> This isn't about anyone else's beliefs and values but Threeblessings'. She waited for 2 years to begin dating, so I'm sure she will also be willing to take her time to find Mr. Right, who isn't desperate or a weirdo, but who has similar values and is looking for a committed Christian spouse like she is.


I am guessing your husband wasn't a 30 something year old virgin. 

Also we are not talking about virgins. The OP isn't a virgin. She has 3 kids. Guessing the boyfriend isn't a virgin either. 

I can understand people waiting for marriage. That was my original plan as well. So that their one and only is really a 'one and only'. But this isn't the case.


----------



## Adelais

SadSamIAm said:


> I am guessing your husband wasn't a 30 something year old virgin.


He was 29. His friends were also in his same age range. He is 6"3, 180 lbs, incredibly handsome, intelligent, and his "parts" worked fine and are above average size. There was nothing wrong with him, and he was not desperate. He simply had a very strong faith and wanted to be true to it.

I ended up using all I had to seduce him after a few months. I was not a Christian when we met, and although I became one soon after we met, my understanding and faith were immature. He was always disappointed with himself, not with me afterwards. We quit having sex several months before we married, because I finally understood where he was coming from. I began to help him get out the door after a date, instead of ratcheting up my seduction skills, because I loved him more than I loved myself.

Hang in there Threeblessings. There are men out there for you. You will just have to weed through the ordinary ones to find the jewel.

You may end up having sex sooner than you originally planned, once you find the right one, but then again, you both might be able to control yourselves until the wedding date.

Stay true to your heart and your faith.


----------



## Adelais

I find it very strange that men are diminishing Threeblessing's desire to not have sex before her (next) marriage because she is not a virgin. It is like you are all saying she is damaged goods, and not worth waiting for. Or that since she is damaged goods she should not value her body enough to hold out for a lifelong commitment.

Perhaps others have noticed this innuendo and an articulate it better than I have?


----------



## Marduk

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> I find it very strange that men are diminishing Threeblessing's desire to not have sex before her (next) marriage because she is not a virgin. It is like you are all saying she is damaged goods, and not worth waiting for. Or that since she is damaged goods she should not value her body enough to hold out for a lifelong commitment.
> 
> Perhaps others have noticed this innuendo and an articulate it better than I have?


Well, this man isn't.

What I'm saying is that I think she's taking a risk not testing sexual compatibility before marriage. And she seems to know that, and think it's not an issue, so I'm going to drop it because it's her life.

And because for some reason I find this whole thing deeply fascinating I'll throw one thing out there.

Back when I was dating, if I dated a girl for a couple of weeks and we didn't have sex, I either assumed she was LD or wasn't into me. Or I wasn't into her enough to try to seduce her.

In either case, I assumed we were incompatible and ended it.


----------



## samyeagar

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> I find it very strange that men are diminishing Threeblessing's desire to not have sex before her (next) marriage because she is not a virgin. It is like you are all saying she is damaged goods, and not worth waiting for. Or that since she is damaged goods she should not value her body enough to hold out for a lifelong commitment.
> 
> Perhaps others have noticed this innuendo and an articulate it better than I have?


I'm not sure that's quite it. I think more than anything else, she is still hurting over her former marriage, and the poor choice in a husband. She has keyed in on the premarital sex as the reasons behind the failure, his deceit, his adultery, and is vowing not to make the same mistake again. It also seems like she is not overly physically attracted to the man she is currently with, and her devotion to her faith is a crutch to avoid dealing with a bunch of other issues. The premarital sex is not really the issue here, nor was it the issue in her previous marriage.

I wouldn't call her damaged goods. Perhaps, not fully healed goods.


----------



## Adelais

marduk said:


> Well, this man isn't.
> 
> What I'm saying is that I think she's taking a risk not* testing sexual compatibility* before marriage. And she seems to know that, and think it's not an issue, so I'm going to drop it because it's her life.


I get what you're saying, although I disagree that it is an accurate test for the reasons others have already stated.



samyeagar said:


> I'm not sure that's quite it. I think more than anything else, she is still hurting over her former marriage, and the poor choice in a husband. She has keyed in on the premarital sex as the reasons behind the failure, his deceit, his adultery, and is vowing not to make the same mistake again. It also seems like she is not overly physically attracted to the man she is currently with, and her devotion to her faith is a crutch to avoid dealing with a bunch of other issues. The premarital sex is not really the issue here, nor was it the issue in her previous marriage.
> 
> I wouldn't call her damaged goods. Perhaps, not fully healed goods.


This is an interesting perspective. However I do believe that not getting sexually involved before she really knows him can help her keep a clear mind and be more objective.


----------



## SadSamIAm

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> I find it very strange that men are diminishing Threeblessing's desire to not have sex before her (next) marriage because she is not a virgin. It is like you are all saying she is damaged goods, and not worth waiting for. Or that since she is damaged goods she should not value her body enough to hold out for a lifelong commitment.
> 
> Perhaps others have noticed this innuendo and an articulate it better than I have?


Nobody is saying that not being a virgin is damaged goods. If that were true, virtually everyone over 17 years old is 'damaged goods'.


----------



## SadSamIAm

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> He was 29. His friends were also in his same age range. He is 6"3, 180 lbs, incredibly handsome, intelligent, and his "parts" worked fine and are above average size. There was nothing wrong with him, and he was not desperate. He simply had a very strong faith and wanted to be true to it.
> 
> I ended up using all I had to seduce him after a few months. I was not a Christian when we met, and although I became one soon after we met, my understanding and faith were immature. He was always disappointed with himself, not with me afterwards. We quit having sex several months before we married, because I finally understood where he was coming from. I began to help him get out the door after a date, instead of ratcheting up my seduction skills, because I loved him more than I loved myself.
> 
> Hang in there Threeblessings. There are men out there for you. You will just have to weed through the ordinary ones to find the jewel.
> 
> You may end up having sex sooner than you originally planned, once you find the right one, but then again, you both might be able to control yourselves until the wedding date.
> 
> Stay true to your heart and your faith.


First you said your husband was a virgin when you got married. Now you say you seduced him and he wasn't a virgin when you got married.

Then you go on to say, "You may end up having sex sooner than you originally planned". This makes our point. 

This is what is typical. If you are really into someone and they are into you, then it is natural to not wait. Especially when you aren't a virgin and especially if you are 30 something years old and have 3 kids. 

Nothing about 'damaged goods'. Actually the opposite. I would say the person that holds out, probably has some baggage (or they aren't really into each other).


----------



## samyeagar

SadSamIAm said:


> First you said your husband was a virgin when you got married. Now you say you seduced him and he wasn't a virgin when you got married.
> 
> Then you go on to say, "You may end up having sex sooner than you originally planned". This makes our point.
> 
> This is what is typical. If you are really into someone and they are into you, then it is natural to not wait. Especially when you aren't a virgin and especially if you are 30 something years old and have 3 kids.
> 
> *Nothing about 'damaged goods'. Actually the opposite. I would say the person that holds out, probably has some baggage (or they aren't really into each other)*.


There is nothing wrong with waiting, however I think that a sexually and emotionally healthy person would find it extremely difficult to hold out when they are with someone who they are emotionally in tune with, and sexually attracted to. I would expect the focus to be more on how difficult it is to wait, how to turn down their own desire rather than how to shut their perspective partner down.


----------



## Adelais

SadSamIAm said:


> First you said your husband was a virgin when you got married. Now you say you seduced him and he wasn't a virgin when you got married.
> 
> Then you go on to say, "You may end up having sex sooner than you originally planned".


My husband was a virgin when we met and he had planned to remain that way. I didn't respect that, and did not back off when I knew what his plans for his virginity were. I'm not proud of that at all. When I finally "got it" and loved someone else (him) more than myself, I did not make it difficult for him to be true to himself and to his God. Granted, he was no longer a virgin, but he was no longer actively going against his own values either.

So he had sex sooner than he planned. Like you said, had the attraction not been there in the first place, nothing would have happened. Another possibility is had I not been so aggressive, it would not have happened. I regret my actions, but I was who I was at the time.

Threeblessings is not going to be pushing herself on anyone, due to her values, and if the guy has the same values, they can hold out longer, perhaps until their wedding day.


----------



## tech-novelist

marduk said:


> Not a religious dude, but isn't it kinda standard practice to pick and choose what you want to follow?
> 
> I mean, I don't see a lot of Christian people not wearing two different kinds of fabric like Leviticus says. Hell Deuteronomy says you should kill people that have bad dreams.


Which is exactly my point. Since everyone who claims to "follow the Bible" actually picks and chooses which parts to follow, "following the Bible" means "following the parts of the Bible that you agree with", which isn't a very strong argument for anything.


----------



## Marduk

tech-novelist said:


> Which is exactly my point. Since everyone who claims to "follow the Bible" actually picks and chooses which parts to follow, "following the Bible" means "following the parts of the Bible that you agree with", which isn't a very strong argument for anything.


I think you're applying binary reasoning to a non-binary situation. 

I consider myself to be a law abiding citizen, but I have gotten a number of speeding tickets. 

Besides, you're talking about something that made sense 2000 years ago. 

When I read stoic literature, it also requires interpretation. Because, well, life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Marduk

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> I get what you're saying, although I disagree that it is an accurate test for the reasons others have already stated.


It has to be more accurate than speculating about it. 

It's like describing sex to a virgin. You can do it, but it all changes when you're naked and inside someone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Holland

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> My husband was a virgin, and he had good friends who were also virgins (all Christians.) As far as we know, they all found wonderful spouses (not all virgins, but no longer sleeping around due to their newfound faith) and they are all still married!
> 
> This isn't about anyone else's beliefs and values but Threeblessings'. She waited for 2 years to begin dating, so I'm sure she will also be willing to take her time to find Mr. Right, who isn't desperate or a weirdo, but who has similar values and is looking for a committed Christian spouse like she is.


Didn't your committed Christian cheat on you? Religion does not make a person virtuous.

Better to invest the time to really get to know another person (3 or so years for a second marriage) than to rush in just because you have to abstain from sex due to being a committed christian.
As a fully formed adult with previous life experience, part of the getting to know you phase logically means seeing if there is sexual chemistry.

3B how long will you invest in a relationship before marriage? You and your kids deserve that investment. 
Can you abstain for years before getting married?


----------



## tech-novelist

marduk said:


> I think you're applying binary reasoning to a non-binary situation.
> 
> I consider myself to be a law abiding citizen, but I have gotten a number of speeding tickets.


Here's an analogy:

Suppose I said that I couldn't do "x" (for some value of "x") *because it is illegal*, but in fact I actually do exceed the speed limit, which is *also *illegal. How seriously should anyone take my claim of not being able to do "x" *due to its illegality*?

This is exactly the same as saying the following:

I can't do "x" *because the Bible says I shouldn't do it*, but I do other things that are *also prohibited by the Bible*.


----------



## Marduk

tech-novelist said:


> Here's an analogy:
> 
> Suppose I said that I couldn't do "x" (for some value of "x") *because it is illegal*, but in fact I actually do exceed the speed limit, which is *also *illegal. How seriously should anyone take my claim of not being able to do "x" *due to its illegality*?
> 
> This is exactly the same as saying the following:
> 
> I can't do "x" *because the Bible says I shouldn't do it*, but I do other things that are *also prohibited by the Bible*.


What, like every Catholic I know that uses birth control and doesn't wring their hands about it?

I think religion is kinda like a sexual orientation. It's up to the individual to self identify however they want, and then go pick and choose from that. 

I've never had a homosexual experience, but one of my best buddies had one in a 3-way context, and he doesn't consider himself bi.

What are you so bent out of shape about?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SadSamIAm

I agree that religious people pick and choose what suits them out of the bible. My father was one of the most religious men I ever knew. But he would swear the odd time. Heard him say 'Jesus Christ' a few times when not talking about 'Jesus Christ' (third commandment). Our Catholic Priest was our baseball coach and I will never forget the time he dropped the 'F' bomb when driving home from a game.

My guess is that people that really love sex, ignore the parts of the bible forbidding it. Those that either don't like sex, or it isn't very important to them, can point to the bible for a reason to abstain. 

Sex is a big part of marriage for many people. Especially when it isn't happening. The people that say it isn't a big deal are probably the same people that are having it regularly.


----------



## tech-novelist

marduk said:


> What, like every Catholic I know that uses birth control and doesn't wring their hands about it?
> 
> I think religion is kinda like a sexual orientation. It's up to the individual to self identify however they want, and then go pick and choose from that.
> 
> I've never had a homosexual experience, but one of my best buddies had one in a 3-way context, and he doesn't consider himself bi.
> 
> What are you so bent out of shape about?


I'm not bent out of shape about anything.

How are you doing?


----------



## Marduk

tech-novelist said:


> I'm not bent out of shape about anything.
> 
> How are you doing?


 I'm great, thanks for asking.

If I were a good Catholic I'd be feeling pretty guilty right now.

Good thing I'm not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## *Deidre*

Aw, OP...some of these responses. 

Do your own thing, be true to your values. We live in a culture that basically tells people if they're not banging someone by the third date, then there's something wrong with him/her. There's nothing wrong with waiting, nothing wrong with not waiting. But, if he is putting pressure on you to betray your values, honestly...he's not the guy for you.


----------



## MJJEAN

For those who mentioned Christianity and the fact that Christians eat shellfish when it is prohibited by the Bible and yet won't have premarital sex, also prohibited by the Bible, what needs to be understood is that many Christian faith traditions are NOT Sola Scriputra. Meaning, we understand that some rules and prohibitions in the Bible were put there for reasons that were relevant to the surviving and thriving of Christians at the time, but are no longer relevant today. It's really more or less about taking the Bible in historical context and sorting it all out, presumably with the guidance of the Spirit.

Catholics are not Sola Scriptura, so we rely on Tradition as well as the Bible.

To a Catholic, it is believed that God gave us sex and sexual pleasure to be used in the context of marriage to bond the couple and produce children. To have sex outside of marriage is believed to be an abuse of the gift of sexuality. It is a Mortal Sin. To a practicing Catholic, this is a HUGE deal.

Today, we know that when we have sex our brains and bodies are flooded with chemicals and hormones that bond us to our partner and cloud our perception. When dating and discerning whether a person is a good lifetime match is not one of those times when you want your judgement clouded. Especially if your religious tradition is one that believes marriage leaves an indelible mark on the soul and is a lifetime commitment.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

SadSamIAm said:


> *My guess is that people that really love sex, ignore the parts of the bible forbidding it. Those that either don't like sex, or it isn't very important to them, can point to the bible for a reason to abstain. *
> 
> Sex is a big part of marriage for many people. Especially when it is happening. The people that say it isn't a big deal are probably the same people that are having it regularly.


 and some hold many strings with sex.. we don't want to enter in too early.. because we associate it *as commitment and exclusivity* , it's romantic, ALL CONSUMING and we don't want to set ourselves up for a hurtful fall when he walks out the door.... as clearly many men just want to **** & test drive.. they like their variety.. 

Some of us treasure it's meaning to us and we need to know he feels the same.. 

Biblical constraints aside.... I find this write up beautiful.. though pretty sure it is a Godly article..I saved it years ago ..went & looked it up for this thread.. 

If one deeply cares about intimacy / commitment, and prefers to fuse their bodies together when this has been* established*.. none of this means a woman is not sexual or doesn't like sex.. that stereotype probably bothers me more than any other.. it's just NOT TRUE for all of us ... 



> The Five Levels of Intimacy
> 
> Psychologists have identified 5 levels of emotional intimacy we all move through as we get to know someone. They’ve been given several names, but for our purposes, let’s call them Level one through five, with five being the highest, or most intimate level.
> 
> *Level 1: Safe Communication
> *
> Level one is the lowest level of communication. We call it safe because it involves the exchange of facts and information. There are no feelings, opinions or personal vulnerability involved, and therefore no risk of rejection. This is the kind of interaction we have with people we don’t know well. It’s the chitchat we share with the clerk at the grocery store or a stranger at a party. People communicating at this level share minimal intimacy. An example of this level would be, “Lousy weather we’re having,” This is great pizza,” My team won last night.”
> 
> *Level 2: Others’ Opinions and Beliefs*
> 
> At level two we start sharing other people’s thoughts, beliefs and opinions. We are beginning to reveal more of ourselves through our associations. We say things like, “My mother always says…” or “One of my favorite authors said…” Such statements test the other person’s reaction to what we’re sharing without offering our own opinions. This is slightly more vulnerable than level one, but because we’re not sharing our own opinions we can distance ourselves from the opinion if we feel threatened by criticism or rejection.
> 
> *Level 3: Personal Opinions and Beliefs*
> 
> We start taking small risks at this level because we begin to share our own thoughts, opinions and beliefs. But like the previous level, if we begin feeling too vulnerable, we can say we’ve switched our opinions or changed our mind in order to avoid conflict or pain.
> 
> *Level 4: My Feelings and Experiences*
> 
> Sharing feelings and experiences is the next level of vulnerability and intimacy. At this level we talk about our joys, pain, and failures; our mistakes in the past, our dreams, and our goals. What we like or don’t like. What makes us who we are. This level is more vulnerable because we can’t change how we feel about something, the details of our past or current experiences. If we sense we may be rejected or criticized all we can do is try to convince others that we’re no longer impacted by our past. We’re no longer that person. We’re different now.
> 
> *Level 5: My Needs, Emotions and Desires*
> 
> Level five is the highest level of intimacy. It is the level where we are known at the deepest core of who we are. Because of that, it is the level that requires the greatest amount of trust. If I can’t trust that you won’t reject me, I’ll never be able to share my deepest self with you. Unlike the other levels, there is no escape at this level. Once I let someone see who I really am, I can no longer convince them otherwise. Communicating at this level means we offer someone the most vulnerable part of ourselves. And the greatest fear is that they could use it against us later. When we share things like, “I’m hurt when you don’t call,” I need to feel respected by you,” or “I want to spend my life with you,” we’re sharing not only our hurts but our desires and needs as well. It’s also the level where we let others see our emotional reaction to things, which if you’re like me, isn’t always a pretty sight. Maybe that’s why we save those for the ones closest to us, like our families.
> 
> *True Intimacy*
> 
> It’s important to understand that true intimacy in a relationship happens over time…not in a day, week or even a month. Think of your best friend…how long did it take before you felt at the highest level of intimacy with them, where you were able to trust them completely, or share your deepest self? It’s the same in romantic relationships…true intimacy develops over time. But another important element is needed for true intimacy…both people in the relationship need to move through the levels together. If I’m sharing at level four with someone (feelings and experiences) but my partner is sharing at level three (opinions and beliefs) we’re not experiencing true intimacy. I may feel closer because I’m sharing at a higher level, but in reality what we have is a false sense of intimacy. In truth, intimacy is measured by the person with the lower level of vulnerability.
> 
> *Sex…A False Sense of Intimacy*
> 
> When you look at the five levels, I’m sure you’d agree that the fifth or highest level is the healthiest, safest and most intimate place to have sex. When we feel loved unconditionally, and have the highest level of trust, we’ll be able to give ourselves completely to each other, increasing intimacy and the enjoyment of sex. We can have sex at the other levels, but without that same level of trust the vulnerability of sex may be associated with anxiety, fear and distrust. As I’ve led women through healing, I’ve discovered that they have the hardest time with sex if they’re not at this highest level with their partner, and if they’ve been wounded by sex with others in lower levels of intimacy, whether through abuse or their own choices.
> 
> So what happens if we have sex outside marriage before reaching that highest level, level five? Sex by itself is an intimate act. God designed sex to bond two people together spiritually, emotionally, physically and mentally. In Genesis, God said that sex makes two people one. In essence He’s saying sex ‘glues’ two people together. Research on the brain and sex has validated God’s plan to bond people together with sex. During sexual arousal and release men and women release an amazing hormone called oxytocin. Scientists call oxytocin the hormone of love, the superglue that creates strong relational bonds. Releasing this hormone increases trust in a relationship, bonds people together, and causes intimacy. Oxytocin is also released in women when they give birth and when they breast feed their babies. You can see how God designed us to bond together in families to love, support and provide for each other.


----------



## Forever27

3B – since this is a secular forum, you are obviously going to get responses all over the map – many of them second-guessing why anyone would choose to remain chaste. I think this is understandable.

But you are clearly trying to remain true to your moral principles. Your bf states that he is a Christian. At the very least, he should be willing to respect your principles (which are based on orthodox Christian doctrine), even if for some reason he has not adhered to them himself. That he does not is a huge red flag, imo.

There are Christian men out there who will be more respectful of you.


----------



## Threeblessings

tech-novelist said:


> So to summarize, @Threeblessings is following the Bible except when it is sexist. Thanks for clearing that up!


What are you on about???


----------



## Threeblessings

samyeagar said:


> Have you considered backing out of the dating scene altogether so you can focus on you, and your children? A lot of what you have said in this thread leaves me with the feeling that you still have unresolved issues that you need to work through before you can be in a healthy, fulfilling, complete relationship. That you are trying to force something that you are not ready for yet.


You're right samyeagar, I just need to find the courage to end it. When I tried to before he said we could work through my issues together because he doesn't want to lose me. I still feel torn because I don't want to hurt him .


----------



## Threeblessings

SadSamIAm said:


> Divorced Woman - Guessing Mid 30s - 3 Young Kids - No Sex until married
> 
> Divorced - No Big Deal
> Mid 30s - Fine
> 3 Young Kids - Tough One
> No Sex Until Married - Very Tough One
> 
> I am guessing the no sex thing severely limits the number of prospects out there for the OP.
> 
> Guessing the best guys will stay away. Chance of getting some desperate guy increases. Also, greatly increases the chances that marriage happens too soon (before really getting to know each other).
> 
> I am all for boundaries, but just realize what you are setting yourself up for.


and the RIGHT guy will choose to stay.


----------



## Threeblessings

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> My husband was a virgin, and he had good friends who were also virgins (all Christians.) As far as we know, they all found wonderful spouses (not all virgins, but no longer sleeping around due to their newfound faith) and they are all still married!
> 
> This isn't about anyone else's beliefs and values but Threeblessings'. She waited for 2 years to begin dating, so I'm sure she will also be willing to take her time to find Mr. Right, who isn't desperate or a weirdo, but who has similar values and is looking for a committed Christian spouse like she is.


Thank you, I have been alone for 2 and half years and I thought I was in the right space to meet someone but I'm starting to think my timing wasn't right. I am not desperate and I definitely don't want just anybody either. I definitely would like to have a relationship with a Christian spouse, my ex-husband was not.


----------



## Threeblessings

SadSamIAm said:


> I am guessing your husband wasn't a 30 something year old virgin.
> 
> Also we are not talking about virgins. The OP isn't a virgin. She has 3 kids. Guessing the boyfriend isn't a virgin either.
> 
> I can understand people waiting for marriage. That was my original plan as well. So that their one and only is really a 'one and only'. But this isn't the case.


No I am not and neither is the boyfriend. Having said that, I don't want to have sex out of marriage just because we've both had it before. It doesn't change the dynamics in any way.


----------



## Threeblessings

marduk said:


> Well, this man isn't.
> 
> What I'm saying is that I think she's taking a risk not testing sexual compatibility before marriage. And she seems to know that, and think it's not an issue, so I'm going to drop it because it's her life.
> 
> And because for some reason I find this whole thing deeply fascinating I'll throw one thing out there.
> 
> Back when I was dating, if I dated a girl for a couple of weeks and we didn't have sex, I either assumed she was LD or wasn't into me. Or I wasn't into her enough to try to seduce her.
> 
> In either case, I assumed we were incompatible and ended it.



A few weeks? That's hardly enough time to even build a relationship!


----------



## Threeblessings

samyeagar said:


> I'm not sure that's quite it. I think more than anything else, she is still hurting over her former marriage, and the poor choice in a husband. She has keyed in on the premarital sex as the reasons behind the failure, his deceit, his adultery, and is vowing not to make the same mistake again. It also seems like she is not overly physically attracted to the man she is currently with, and her devotion to her faith is a crutch to avoid dealing with a bunch of other issues. The premarital sex is not really the issue here, nor was it the issue in her previous marriage.
> 
> I wouldn't call her damaged goods. Perhaps, not fully healed goods.


Just one thing - we are attracted to each other. My marriage took everything away from me. I thought I had given myself enough time to head but obviously I haven't.


----------



## Adelais

Holland said:


> Didn't your committed Christian cheat on you? Religion does not make a person virtuous.


Sadly, he did after 19 years of marriage. Does that completely disqualify him and mean he is a horrible person for life? Have you never done something egregious in your life that you wish you could take back? It seems that you hold him to a higher standard than yourself, yet you don't even hold his same beliefs.



MJJEAN said:


> Today, we know that when we have sex our brains and bodies are flooded with chemicals and hormones that bond us to our partner and cloud our perception. When dating and discerning whether a person is a good lifetime match is not one of those times when you want your judgement clouded. Especially if your religious tradition is one that believes marriage leaves an indelible mark on the soul and is a lifetime commitment.


^^^^^This.^^^^^



SimplyAmorous said:


> and some hold many strings with sex.. we don't want to enter in too early.. because we associate it *as commitment and exclusivity* , it's romantic, ALL CONSUMING and we don't want to set ourselves up for a hurtful fall when he walks out the door.... as clearly many men just want to **** & test drive.. they like their variety..
> 
> Some of us treasure it's meaning to us and we need to know he feels the same..
> 
> If one deeply cares about intimacy / commitment, and prefers to fuse their bodies together when this has been* established*.. none of this means a woman is not sexual or doesn't like sex.. that stereotype probably bothers me more than any other.. it's just NOT TRUE for all of us ...


^^^^^And this.^^^^^

It seems that many people think of sex as just something that feels good with little to no emotional or moral obliation. There is so much more to it than that.

Usually once sex is added to the equation, it is a lot harder to break up, and one or both people have hurt feelings. That doesn't happen as much people keep it platonic until there is a commitment, or marriage.


----------



## Threeblessings

Holland said:


> Didn't your committed Christian cheat on you? Religion does not make a person virtuous.
> 
> Better to invest the time to really get to know another person (3 or so years for a second marriage) than to rush in just because you have to abstain from sex due to being a committed christian.
> As a fully formed adult with previous life experience, part of the getting to know you phase logically means seeing if there is sexual chemistry.
> 
> 3B how long will you invest in a relationship before marriage? You and your kids deserve that investment.
> Can you abstain for years before getting married?


Holland, I have been fine for 2 and half years so far.....to wait longer is fine. Well we've only been seeing each other for a few weeks so if marriage was on the cards, maybe 2 years? I really don't know. I have abstained for the entire time I've been separated so longer should be fine. By the way for those mentioning "drives" this has nothing to do with it. I'm trying to do what's right!


----------



## Adelais

Threeblessings said:


> Holland, I have been fine for 2 and half years so far.....to wait longer is fine. Well we've only been seeing each other for a few weeks to marriage was on the cards, maybe 2 years? I really don't know. I have abstained for the entire time I've been separated so longer should be fine. By the way for those mentioning "drives" this has nothing to do with it. I'm trying to do what's right!


I think what the naysayers are trying to elude to is that they believe you are LD (low drive) and that a man has a right to know that before marriage. However they have no idea what your hormones are doing, versus how much self control and spiritual help you have going on which are enabling you to not let your hormones rule your brain and choices.


----------



## turnera

I'm sorry, but I think it's insane to tell a woman within a few weeks that he loves her. The first thing I think of when I hear that is controller/abuser. They latch onto a woman and do everything in their power to get her to likewise latch onto him. Oh, and they guilt you or criticize you if you don't follow their plan.


----------



## Holland

> My husband was a virgin when we met and he had planned to remain that way. I didn't respect that, and did not back off when I knew what his plans for his virginity were. I'm not proud of that at all. When I finally "got it" and loved someone else (him) more than myself, *I did not make it difficult for him to be true to himself and to his God. Granted, he was no longer a virgin, but he was no longer actively going against his own values either*.





IMFarAboveRubies said:


> Sadly, he did after 19 years of marriage. Does that completely disqualify him and mean he is a horrible person for life? Have you never done something egregious in your life that you wish you could take back? *It seems that you hold him to a higher standard than yourself, yet you don't even hold his same beliefs.
> *
> ^^^^............................................


You have said your husband went against his own values by having pre marital sex then he then went against his god's values by having sex outside the marriage. 

You can't have it both ways, either he has strong values or he doesn't.


----------



## Vega

Holland said:


> You have said your husband went against his own values by having pre marital sex then he then went against his god's values by having sex outside the marriage.
> 
> *You can't have it both ways, either he has strong values or he doesn't*.


People's values CAN change. Just ask any Christian who was "lost" before finding God.


----------



## Adelais

Holland said:


> You have said your husband went against his own values by having pre marital sex then he then went against his god's values by having sex outside the marriage.
> 
> You can't have it both ways, either he has strong values or he doesn't.


He has strong values, but he also has strong flesh that can override his values if he is not walking close to God. People get distracted by life's problems and pressures. Doesn't that ever happen to you? It is funny that you are more judgmental than any Christians I currently know. :laugh:


----------



## MJJEAN

turnera said:


> I'm sorry, but I think it's insane to tell a woman within a few weeks that he loves her. The first thing I think of when I hear that is controller/abuser. They latch onto a woman and do everything in their power to get her to likewise latch onto him. Oh, and they guilt you or criticize you if you don't follow their plan.


I got into a minor argument with DH within a few weeks of meeting him. He was arguing that I wasn't treating myself well and just blurted out "Don't you know how much I love you?" and I just blurted out "Yeah, well, I love you, too!" That was more than 16 years ago now and he's far from a controller/abuser. 

I actually know a few couples that said "I love you." within weeks of meeting that stayed together, presumably happy, for many years. Sometimes, you just know.

This guy, though, I think may be saying it because he is trying to get laid and hopes those are the magic words.


----------



## Vega

MJJEAN said:


> I actually know a few couples that said "I love you." within weeks of meeting that stayed together, presumably happy, for many years.


But this seems to be more the _exception_ than the rule.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> It seems that many people think of sex as just something that feels good with little to no emotional or moral obliation. There is so much more to it than that.
> 
> *Usually once sex is added to the equation, it is a lot harder to break up, and one or both people have hurt feelings. That doesn't happen as much people keep it platonic until there is a commitment, or marriage.*


 Our 2nd son experienced making love with his 1st love -who broke his heart in pieces shattered on the ground...very difficult break up... I can tell you.. he was bonded.. he was really distraught over this.. and wished he hadn't done it, after the fact.. yeah he's a Guy.. maybe this isn't the normal thing.

He struggled a long time - did it mean so little TO HER?.. I felt so bad for him..but ya know.. he's our son.. his dad is like that too.. so am I .. so he got a double dose ...

I feel the more sensitive people, caring , want to love & give.. are more inclined to WANT and crave the strings attached.. I don't know how one shakes this.. it's just a part of WHO WE ARE at our core.. I could NEVER be matched with someone who took sex lightly.. it would bother me deeply.

When others just don't "get us" or belittle how important we feel in this...like "get with the program"... it's just not a good match.. not that this guy is doing this to her.. it doesn't sound like he is.. thankfully.. he's probably just struggling with wanting to get closer.. I can understand that..

Then on the other hand.. I tend to see both sides.. 



Threeblessings said:


> Holland,* I have been fine for 2 and half years so far.....to wait longer is fine. Well we've only been seeing each other for a few weeks to marriage was on the cards, maybe 2 years? I really don't know. I have abstained for the entire time I've been separated so longer should be fine. By the way for those mentioning "drives" this has nothing to do with it. I'm trying to do what's right!*


Ok.. I just have to ask..(if too personal.. just ignore me!)... as a high driver and a girl who was always NUTS for the boys... but yet I held strong beliefs to wait till marriage.. I must admit. I wanted to be touched [email protected]# I think after a time.. I'd probably go CRAZY lusting for it... 

We have a # of sons... If I must be honest..after reading how some men have suffered DEEPLY, soul crushingly with wives not interested in sex, could take it or leave it.... I seriously care a great deal that our sons never suffer this awful fate...if they find a girl /woman who wasn't struggling to hold back (at the very least).. I realize I'm jumping back & force on these fences now....since I agree with waiting - to a point or boundary anyway.. .. I just feel it should be difficult, a craving should be there heavily ...or something is amiss...

Is it ??? Hormonally speaking.. do you dream about it ? (even if it's not with this guy)... or is it easy to live with.. a vibrator handy ...getting lots of use ??

I spent some time on a Christian forum.. and some of the stories I read on there.. I was in tears...some have repressed themselves badly by pushing it away for long periods of time.. there was a female poster here who had to get therapy after her wedding.. due to feeling she was dishonoring God when she had such strong desires to touch her BF, they were youth group leaders.... she prayed against it..... and something eventually snapped in her.. then she felt nothing....she denied her husband for years after the wedding.. Never forget her story... this is a post of hers speaking about it.. HERE post 74...I realize this is extreme... falls into the category of "repressed sexuality".. 

It sounds you are just not into THIS GUY.. since you are worried about hurting him..


----------



## larry.gray

turnera said:


> I'm sorry, but I think it's insane to tell a woman within a few weeks that he loves her. The first thing I think of when I hear that is controller/abuser. They latch onto a woman and do everything in their power to get her to likewise latch onto him. Oh, and they guilt you or criticize you if you don't follow their plan.


That or a cluster B mental disorder and he's love bombing you right now.

Could be both....


----------



## Personal

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> My husband was a virgin when we met and he had planned to remain that way. I didn't respect that, and did not back off when I knew what his plans for his virginity were. I'm not proud of that at all. When I finally "got it" and loved someone else (him) more than myself, I did not make it difficult for him to be true to himself and to his God. Granted, he was no longer a virgin, but he was no longer actively going against his own values either.
> 
> So he had sex sooner than he planned. Like you said, had the attraction not been there in the first place, nothing would have happened. Another possibility is had I not been so aggressive, it would not have happened. I regret my actions, but I was who I was at the time.


Unless you raped your husband, as proven by his actions it is evident he wanted to abandon his virginity.

What people do is far more telling than what they say.

As to your regret, pfft... absent rape your husband did what he wanted.


----------



## Adelais

Personal said:


> Unless you raped your husband, as proven by his actions it is evident he wanted to abandon his virginity.
> 
> What people do is far more telling than what they say.
> 
> As to your regret, pfft... absent rape your husband did what he wanted.


LOL he definitely had strong hormones surging when I did my best to get him to stay.

Those same hormones were raging when I decided to help him get out the door, instead of trying to weaken him so he would stay.

So no, it wasn't rape. But I didn't help the matter any, just like OP's boyfriend isn't making it easy on her.


----------



## Holland

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> He has strong values, but he also has strong flesh that can override his values if he is not walking close to God. People get distracted by life's problems and pressures. Doesn't that ever happen to you? It is funny that you are more judgmental than any Christians I currently know. :laugh:


Just pointing out the irony.

TBH if someone needs to be guided by a god to be a decent human being ie he has to be walking close to god to remain faithful then I would question that persons core morals. 

People can believe in god or not and still have good morals, if it is not innate then it is not genuine.


----------



## Threeblessings

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> LOL he definitely had strong hormones surging when I did my best to get him to stay.
> 
> Those same hormones were raging when I decided to help him get out the door, instead of trying to weaken him so he would stay.
> 
> So no, it wasn't rape. But I didn't help the matter any, just like OP's boyfriend isn't making it easy on her.


Hi, I've tried to PM you but apparently your inbox has exceeded the limit so my message to you cannot be delivered until you clear some space =).


----------



## Rowan

Threeblessings said:


> You're right samyeagar, I just need to find the courage to end it. When I tried to before *he said we could work through my issues* together because he doesn't want to lose me. I still feel torn because I don't want to hurt him .


I'm sorry, but what the _what_ now? He wants to work through your "issues"? Really? Perhaps I'm oversensitive, but to me that sounds like he thinks there's something wrong with you that needs fixing. Once he fixes it, you'll be all set to shag him into next Tuesday. Ya know, since your issues will be worked through. 

Honestly, the more you say about this guy, the more red flags I see. He's love bombing you - either because his attention span is really short and he's hyper-focusing right now or because he's got a personality disorder. He's pressuring you for sex he knows you're not ready for - because he's not respectful of you or your beliefs. He's feigning compatibility by professing to shared beliefs his actions don't appear to support him actually having. And now he wants to help you sort out your issues, so he's dismissing your truly held convictions as a problem to be solved - likely because he sees them (and you, really) as insignificant roadblocks to getting what he wants. 

Look, I do not share your faith, but I'm not even really sure that matters here. In my opinion, what's really important is that this man doesn't appear to actually share, and certainly doesn't support, your core values. Quite simply, he doesn't respect you enough to either not pressure you or to admit there's an incompatibility and leave. Not all men (perhaps even not many men) will share your faith values, but a _decent_ man of any faith (or none at all) should at least be respectful enough to bow out instead of pressuring or manipulating you to get what he wants.


----------



## Threeblessings

Rowan said:


> I'm sorry, but what the _what_ now? He wants to work through your "issues"? Really? Perhaps I'm oversensitive, but to me that sounds like he thinks there's something wrong with you that needs fixing. Once he fixes it, you'll be all set to shag him into next Tuesday. Ya know, since your issues will be worked through.
> 
> Honestly, the more you say about this guy, the more red flags I see. He's love bombing you - either because his attention span is really short and he's hyper-focusing right now or because he's got a personality disorder. He's pressuring you for sex he knows you're not ready for - because he's not respectful of you or your beliefs. He's feigning compatibility by professing to shared beliefs his actions don't appear to support him actually having. And now he wants to help you sort out your issues, so he's dismissing your truly held convictions as a problem to be solved - likely because he sees them (and you, really) as insignificant roadblocks to getting what he wants.
> 
> Look, I do not share your faith, but I'm not even really sure that matters here. In my opinion, what's really important is that this man doesn't appear to actually share, and certainly doesn't support, your core values. Quite simply, he doesn't respect you enough to either not pressure you or to admit there's an incompatibility and leave. Not all men (perhaps even not many men) will share your faith values, but a _decent_ man of any faith (or none at all) should at least be respectful enough to bow out instead of pressuring or manipulating you to get what he wants.


I deserved this, thank you. My 'issues" relate to trusting and loving again after my ex-husband broke my heart. I didn't realise until I posted this how much healing I still have to do. My boyfriend believes we can work through my brick wall and other issues together. Having said that I don't think anyone can help me bypass the hurt it is something I have to do with God's help.


----------



## john117

Threeblessings said:


> and the RIGHT guy will choose to stay.


This is turning into a job hunt. 

I'm not sure you want to be this explicit without specifying a time frame and the entrance and exit conditions that indicate successful behaviors. 

The right man may wait but it's a numbers game, and most will bolt upon hearing it. Not because of the sex per se but because of the preconditions and unknowns. 

There was one person in my life 30 years ago that I would have been happy to marry and not EVER have sex. But I knew her and knew why (CSA). As it turned out she explained this on our first week together.. I respected that.

In your case the right man will have to make a judgement call as to what your reason for your decision is. I feel that your reason, while valid in your belief ecosystem, may not resonate as well to others. 

So, clarify a time period and conditions and work from there. No sex till marriage could well be 3 years and not many people would go for it.


----------



## Marduk

Threeblessings said:


> A few weeks? That's hardly enough time to even build a relationship!


Remember I'm coming at it from the standpoint that building a sexual relationship is part of the idea. It's a holistic thing.

After coming out of a marriage that was pretty much sexless for the last six months of it, I wanted to make sure that wasn't going to be an issue again.

I'm a sexual guy. Good, frequent sex for me is a requirement, not a "nice to have." Just like affection, respect, and all the other stuff that goes along with a good relationship.

And I personally would rather check to make sure we're on the same page sexually before investing a lot of emotional energy into the relationship. Because I've been in the place where the reverse has happened -- you're in love, but the sex is bad or not happening.

And that sucks.

I'm not judging you. What I want is for that to not happen to you.


----------



## Marduk

john117 said:


> This is turning into a job hunt.
> 
> I'm not sure you want to be this explicit without specifying a time frame and the entrance and exit conditions that indicate successful behaviors.
> 
> The right man may wait but it's a numbers game, and most will bolt upon hearing it. Not because of the sex per se but because of the preconditions and unknowns.
> 
> There was one person in my life 30 years ago that I would have been happy to marry and not EVER have sex. But I knew her and knew why (CSA). As it turned out she explained this on our first week together.. I respected that.
> 
> In your case the right man will have to make a judgement call as to what your reason for your decision is. I feel that your reason, while valid in your belief ecosystem, may not resonate as well to others.
> 
> So, clarify a time period and conditions and work from there. No sex till marriage could well be 3 years and not many people would go for it.


Ya John I think that's part of the risk. You're basically asking a dude to invest 3 years emotionally and celibately to hope to get married and then have sex.

A few guys will. Most guys won't. I don't think most women would be any different.


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## Vega

larry.gray said:


> That or a cluster B mental disorder and he's love bombing you right now.
> 
> Could be both....


My thoughts exactly. Narcissists, sociopaths and the like often exhibit behaviors such as love-bombing EARLY in the relationship along with talks of marriage and PUSHING for sex.


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## SadSamIAm

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> He has strong values, but he also has strong flesh that can override his values if he is not walking close to God. People get distracted by life's problems and pressures. Doesn't that ever happen to you? It is funny that you are more judgmental than any Christians I currently know. :laugh:


This is my problem with 'Christians'. 

I was going to write a long explanation of my life with the Catholic Church but won't get into that.

Being Christian doesn't make anyone a better person than anyone else. 

To the OP .... don't chase off guys because they aren't Christian. You are limiting yourself to a world full of good people that have very strong morals. Look to their character, not whether or not they talk about God and go to church.


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## Adelais

Holland said:


> Just pointing out the irony.
> 
> TBH if someone needs to be guided by a god to be a *decent human being* ie he has to be *walking close to god to remain faithful* then I would question that persons *core morals*.
> 
> People can believe in god or not and still have good *morals*, if it is not innate then it is not genuine.


My husband was and is a decent human being. He just made one (or a series of related) horrible choice in one (or a few) areas of his life.

Do you really believe that when a person does something against their own value system (which you do not hold anyway, BTW) that they are no longer a *decent human being*?

I hope you don't hold your children to that standard: They make a bad decision, and they are no longer decent human beings.

You and I think very differently. I believe that whether people are decent human beings or not does not ride on them doing everything perfectly, all the time. They should strive to do right by themselves and their god, but if they fall in one area, they do not instantly become horrible people.

My god tells me to give people mercy, like He gives me mercy. We are all bound to do something against ourselves and against others from time to time.

It seems that you, the ashiest, are much more harsh and judgmental than I, the Christian.


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## Vega

SadSamIAm said:


> Look to their character, not whether or not they talk about God and go to church.


Being a Christian is much, much MORE than talking about God and going to church. 

I DO however agree with you. There are many non-Christians who are MORE Christian than some Christians!


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## SimplyAmorous

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> My husband was and is a decent human being. He just made one (or a series of related) horrible choice in one (or a few) areas of his life.
> 
> Do you really believe that when a person does something against their own value system (which you do not hold anyway, BTW) that they are no longer a *decent human being*?
> 
> I hope you don't hold your children to that standard: They make a bad decision, and they are no longer decent human beings.
> 
> You and I think very differently. I believe that whether people are decent human beings or not does not ride on them doing everything perfectly, all the time. They should strive to do right by themselves and their god, but if they fall in one area, they do not instantly become horrible people.
> 
> My god tells me to give people mercy, like He gives me mercy. We are all bound to do something against ourselves and against others from time to time.
> 
> It seems that you, the ashiest, are much more harsh and judgmental than I, the Christian.


I always find it the "height" of love, or what it's supposed to be...with stories such as yours.. where a spouse chooses to forgive, they can see past it.. they KNOW this is where God wants them to BE.. to walk in.. and they rebuild together.. 

I believe people can make horrible choices in the blink of an eye that they would give their right arm to take back, they suffer feeling what they have done to the other also .... it happens.. . I trust you were strong enough to see this, had good counsel with his being deeply remorseful before You... 

.. I find a repentant heart and being humble far more Christian , showing THAT mercy..... over those who never make a mistake.. these are the pious ones more prone to looking down , judging others...


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## Adelais

I've made my share of very bad decisions and hurt people as a result. To me the key is taking full responsibility for my actions and resolving to fix myself so I don't commit the same "crimes" over and over. Even still, I am a repeat offender, but mostly involving minor offenses. I want to give others the same grace I'd like to receive, but I even fail in that arena.

My husband's adultery has led me to see my own warts, and they ain't pretty!


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## optimalprimus

Any update OP? You seen the guy since you started this thread?

I think you should tread v carefully with this one - there are orange flags everywhere and a couple of reds too.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk


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## SadSamIAm

I don't see any red flags other than the OP isn't over the crap her ex put her through. She has admitted it has caused trust and other issues.

As to her boyfriend of two months, I don't see much wrong other than maybe he said he loves her too soon. He has said that he is willing to work with her on her issues. They have been dating for 2 months and he is wanting to take it to the next level including sex. I am guessing that most guys in their mid 30's that are feeling love and attraction for their girlfriend will be wanting to escalate the physical part of the relationship. Most would probably have been doing so earlier and would have moved on by the two month mark. The guy sounds like he is being pretty reasonable to me.

The first post made it sound like the OP is into this guy. She has been tempted which to me, means that she has feelings for him. I understand her boundaries, but I would hate for her to miss out on a good guy because of her views on premarital sex. I think he is just being human.


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## Holland

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> My husband was and is a decent human being. He just made one (or a series of related) horrible choice in one (or a few) areas of his life.
> 
> Do you really believe that when a person does something against their own value system (which you do not hold anyway, BTW) that they are no longer a *decent human being*?
> 
> I hope you don't hold your children to that standard: They make a bad decision, and they are no longer decent human beings.
> 
> You and I think very differently. I believe that whether people are decent human beings or not does not ride on them doing everything perfectly, all the time. They should strive to do right by themselves and their god, but if they fall in one area, they do not instantly become horrible people.
> 
> My god tells me to give people mercy, like He gives me mercy. We are all bound to do something against ourselves and against others from time to time.
> 
> It seems that you, the ashiest, are much more harsh and judgmental than I, the Christian.


I would guess that most people hold similar value systems but some of us don't need a third party to instill it.

Actually we hold our children to very high standards, the same standards their dad and I are held to. It isn't an issue, good people with good morals can just get on with it.

If someone breaks the moral code then no they are not a decent person anymore. 

Do you think the OP's ex is a decent person? Going by your rules he is still a decent man even though he cheated on her.



> decent
> ˈdiːs(ə)nt/Submit
> adjective
> 1.
> conforming with generally accepted standards of respectable or moral behaviour.
> "a decent clean-living individual"


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## Threeblessings

optimalprimus said:


> Any update OP? You seen the guy since you started this thread?
> 
> I think you should tread v carefully with this one - there are orange flags everywhere and a couple of reds too.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk


Hi, I haven't seen him since starting this thread. However, I have received a lot of love you text messages. I've asked him not to buy me presents and he said he wants to. I think he's got a good heart and it's in the right place but I still don't love him. We are supposed to go out next week on a date.


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## chrissy47

If he loved you he would have no problem waiting till your ready. period.


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## turnera

Here's a book for you to read, to help you understand:
Why Does He Do That? Inside The Minds Of Angry And Controlling Men, by Bancroft


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