# It hurts sooooo bad right now ...



## outinthecold

My wife left me, I have a thread here about it. Right now I feel like drinking or banging my head on this keyboard until every keys leaves an impression on my face.

What do I do to eleviate this pain. 

Obvious reason why she left me, I was selfish, a jerk. 24 years she endured this from me.

I never truly realized how much she means to me. My best friend is gone. Those old cliches are really true, you don't realize what you've got until it's gone.

Somebody help me, pleeaasseeeee!


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## Sufficiently Breathless

Take a deep breath.. 

Keep posting here, talk about it. Vent if need be.. there are loads of people here who can talk to you and help you through it.

What happened? Do you think you both can possibly work it out?

Talk to me, I'm here


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## Sensitive

I read all the threads you started and can't seem to uncover why you are separated. There are lots of people on this forum going through separation and divorce. I am very sorry that you are hurting.


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## outinthecold

It is just hard to make it thru an hour, I fill my time with watching movies for moments I can escape


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## outinthecold

I've known my wife since she was 17, we've had hard times.

We've had really good times.

She says I don't accept her, I don't accept what she says, she just wants to be heard.

I did all of these things.

We have four(4) children.

She wants to date a person she works with, right now.

We can't afford to divorce or even separate.

So I'm stuck, my two oldest are so angry at her.

She is about as stubborn as they come.

Her words, "I'm so gone from this relationship, I don't love you anymore"

It really is my fault, I don't know what to do.


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## outinthecold

I don't think I can save anything except my children.

It starts at my eyes and just keeps going down until I scream


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## outinthecold

Then I scream some more, and then some more

It just makes my face hurt.


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## Sufficiently Breathless

Sometimes it's no ones fault.. 

I imagine you did some things right being married for all those years.

You can not make her feel something she doesn't. But you can still continue to be there for her.. listen to her.. help her if needed. But remember to take care of YOU.. and of course the children


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## outinthecold

Yeah, my head is swelling again.

I guess the only thing keeping me from jumping off of the roof are the kids.

I'm tired, can't sleep, wake up in a few hours feeling the same thing.

I've run out of tissue


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## outinthecold

The two younger ones are sleeping on the couches after a funny movie.

They look so peaceful

I can't shield them from what is to come.

They are going to hurt so bad


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## Sufficiently Breathless

I'm sorry you are feeling this way.. I know it hurts. Wish there was more I could do or say to help you feel better.. 

Take a hot bath.. read a good book.. watch a movie.. do something to stop thinking about it continuously, perhaps that will tire your mind and you will get some rest.


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## outinthecold

Thanks there breathless, I can feel your words. 

I just can't seem to act on them.


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## Sufficiently Breathless

Well if he is still married.. and so is she.. I can't imagine the outcome will be good..

However thats not to say it will work out for you.. sorry to say. 

Remember to take each day one step at a time, try to get yourself out of the house and do something.. show her that YOUR life does continue on without her


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## outinthecold

The whole thing with her is that she still cares for me, wants the best for me, she says this all the time, but she has moved on.

I still love the image of her when we met.

The family we have is just the best.


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## outinthecold

I don't know if I want her to come back, I just want to stop wanting.

I don't even want somebody. 

I can't stand this pain, making it thru another minute


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## outinthecold

It is 2:00 here in Michigan, I think I'm going to try and go to bed.


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## outinthecold

I know she needs love/support she has said she does not want it from me.

That kills me from inside out.


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## Sensitive

Please take care of yourself. It is almost too painful to read your words. I think you need a total distraction. What are you doing over the Memorial Day weekend? Are you seeing any extended family or friends? Promise me you will go out and socialize and have some fun.


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## dcrim

Dude, PM me...I know what it's like! Hang in there!


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## preso

outinthecold said:


> My wife left me, I have a thread here about it. Right now I feel like drinking or banging my head on this keyboard until every keys leave an impression on my face.
> 
> What do I do to eleviate this pain.
> 
> Obvious reason why she left me, I was selfish, a jerk. 24 years she endured this from me.
> 
> I never truly realized how much she means to me. My best friend is gone. Those old cliches are really true, you don't realize what you've got until it's gone.
> 
> Somebody help me, pleeaasseeeee!


something you can do now is strive to be a stronger and better person, now that you only have yourself to worry about. 
It is a good opportunity to work on yourself, for yourself.


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## outinthecold

Thank you everyone for the kind words, I feel much better now. I got some much needed rest after I drove back from Escanaba at 4:00 in the morning.

Eight hours with a diesel truck, I've probably lost some hearing.

It is less hurt today, she wants me to go out and date. This just seems so impossible right now because for one, I'm hurting still and I'm not really a whole person yet.

I am a passive aggressive male person. Like you ladies have not heard that before. I have to overcome this.

I'm classic PAPD, dominant mother raised me, no praise or approval. I misdirect emotions onto other people. I do PAPD like a pro because I am one.

I'll be much better in a year, I am taking everyone's advice. Working on myself and my four daughters. Two of them are going to run the San Francisco Marathon with me. We went out today to get new running shoes. I ran this once before, with my wife of all people. Well she won't be joining us on this adventure.

I'll keep posting, but thank you one and all for all the good advice and good feelings I have received from every one of you.

I wish I could hug all of you, because it has meant so much to me.


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## Sufficiently Breathless

Good for you! I'm glad you are feeling better!! 

And congrats on the marathon .. whew.. I'm winded just thinking about it!

Good job on working on yourself too.. it's hard to do when you've spent so much time focusing on two and more people for so long. Take care of yourself, and the rest will fall into place. And hug those four beautiful girls often!!


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## outinthecold

It is weird being alone, I have not been alone or thinking about my wife for 24 years.

See I'm tearing up already. I was ok. All day today, I actually got mad a few times thinking about it.

I can't blame her, some advice I have received is no one is at fault. We are at fault, both of us. We both wrecked this marriage. We both brought no tools to build a life with.

I can remember so many good times with her, trips, camping, baby's births, Christmases, birthdays, dates. She says she can't remember any good times without thinking about a fight or crap I did.

I'm a real piece of work, I robbed myself of "True Love" and steped on her heart one mean word at a time.

My only role models when I was little was My Three Sons, Gilligan's Island, Lawrence Welk, Mannix, Cannon, Marcus Welby, Sheriff Andy Taylor. I spent a lot of time watching TV, I walked home alone everyday since I was 5. I stayed by myself until 5:30 everyday when my mother would come home from working at the U of K. This explains my parenting, I'm a great father. I never saw a show on how to become a great husband. 

I have no one to blame or accuse, it is just my circumstance. 

Just that I know I need to work on myself and somewhere down the line I know I will be ok.

My mother-in-law said that one day you will wake up and say to yourself, I'm Ok, I don't feel it anymore. 

Although everything I am says, "You want her back", but truly I have no chance from everything I have read.

I am dead to her.

Difficult as it is, sometime I'm going to write, "I'm Ok"


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## johnamos

Big guy time to move on, my god guy read your posts.

I guess you could feel better if she said drop dead, death to your new love or birth defects to your next born.

Dude its over time to kick the dirt and go on.


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## outinthecold

Funny, jonamos, I am actually a big guy.

Moving on, yeah I know, those words come out of her mouth repeadly.

Very very very hard to do.

Today, she wants to talk about money.

Yep, I know I will have to support over the next few years until she can finish her degree.

If you read earlier, she is going to be upstairs.

I think I am going to go to Yoga reguarly now, I tried not to look before, but there are some real babes at Yoga.

Just my type too.

I took off my wedding ring today, it has only been off my hand a few times to wash grease off of it.

I know, I know depressing.

Well I am headed to see terminator with my sister, my sister, now there is a story that could fill post after post after post after post.

For another time.


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## dcrim

I know it hurts, dude! Been there, got the damn tee shirt. Hang in there, dude...one day at a time...even one hour at a time!


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## revitalizedhusband

I can only imagine how you feel, I'd be the same way if my wife ever got up and left.

We have been together since we were 19, have been married almost 10 years, and we were both each other's firsts (religious/moral reasons) on our wedding night. If she ever just got up and left, I'd be devastated, I love that woman with all my heart.


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## outinthecold

Well here we go again, I was perfectly ok today

But now that I am home without her running around upstairs, I'm miserable.

I'm going out to dinner with my little one. 

Maybe it will get her off of my mind


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## outinthecold

I know I'm pathetic, I'm even considering going to church to look for some help. I have not let any of girls know I am in such dire straits.

I've kept a brave front all day. I actually for the most part felt good too.

Now, I'm tired, I'm hungry, I'm pathetic one more time.

Someone read please, give me something to hold to.


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## dcrim

Go to church. Talk to your preacher. 

Let people know what you're going through. Keeping it in will rot your core self. People need to know how you're doing so they can be supportive. 

We all need someone. We all need support one way or another. Heck, most of the posts on this forum are cries for help and understanding! Not to mention advice. 

I'd be happy to take you out for a beer (or two), uh, without the kid, though.  Anything to get your mind off the brooding. I know the feeling. 

Take the little one to McDs or something. Get out, enjoy the traffic. Don't sit and think, brood. Plan a weekend trip to the zoo, or the museum. Heck, go to toys r us and get something for the little one! 

Don't sit home wondering. It'll make her wonder, too. 

You're not pathetic...just hurting. It's called life. stuffit happens. 

Just don't live for HER, live for yourself. That's the best thing you can do. Live for your daughters. They need you even if "she" doesn't. 

I know it hurts...and I'm looking forward to a year from now, too. It will happen. I'm counting on it!


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## outinthecold

dcrim, thank you so much for your kind words.

I'm listening to my girls running around upstairs watching "So You Think You Can Dance".

It use to be one of my favourite shows I would watch with my wife.

Yeah, 

I'm waiting for that year, so I wish I could fast forward.


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## outinthecold

I'm going to read other people's posts to see what I might be able to help somebody else.


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## dcrim

Dude...you don't have to go through this alone...PM me and I'll give you my phone number! Call me! It doesn't have to hurt this much.


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## Sufficiently Breathless

I'm so sorry you are still struggling with this.. breaks my heart! 

You are not alone, we are all here  

Wrap your heart around those beautiful babies and don't let go.. cling to what you do have. 

Speaking of a weekend outing to the zoo.. I WANNA GO!! *throws temper tantrum*


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## dcrim

SB, call me...we'll do that!


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## Sufficiently Breathless

oh I wish!! I love the ozarks!! 

Spent a lot of time down there when I was a kid. We always stayed at this KOA campground in Lake of the Ozarks.. that is my favorite place on the planet. 

The zoo here is horrible.. i think they have a dog and a cat .. dang lil city lol


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## outinthecold

I don't know if I can hold a conversation, I'll just start blubbering

I went out to dinner with the 7 year old. We went to Champps, had a good dinner. The other two didn't want to come, they just wanted left overs. 

I looked at her and I know what is coming into her world. Pain, life altering realities that I can't shield her from.

Never been to the Ozarks

I lived in Lexington until I was 16, moved to Michigan when my mother remarried. He was a good man, but died young, 53 of brain tumour.

Been here ever since.

It is good to talk about something else.

I'm sorry I'm such a downer. I have pestered my friends enough about this. They are tired of me calling.

I may try and call later.

It seems silly to call a guy and just start balling on the phone to a total stranger.


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## dcrim

No, it's good to have someone to talk to, especially someone who understands. I'm SO sorry I missed your call (I was away from the phone and didn't see the missed call until this morning)! If you want to try again this evening, I promise I'll be there! 

I've put my own story out there. It helps to get rid of the poison.

And don't worry about blubbering! I went on a 3 day binge and my daughter said she could barely understand me! To hear her tell it is funny.  

You're not a downer...just hurting. If your friends are tired of you calling, then I'd be glad to listen. That's what people should do!


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## outinthecold

My boss told me a story about his divorce. One day his wife said," I want a divorce", it tore him up inside.

Years past, because of the kids events, he and she constantly together in interaction.

They got back together for a short time, then apart

A few more years past, they got back together for a short time, then apart

A few more years past, they got back together for a short time, then apart

Each time it took a toll on his mind and heart, he drank, he dated, he fell apart.

A few more years past, she said, "There is still something there, I want to try again"

He said, "Whoa, I'm living thru hell again" he asked her to go to counseling, as separate people, then together. Their first session together after 6 months of therapy separately ended up in a big fight. This went on for weeks, until they had a break thru. Gradually over another 6 months, they began talking in a dialogue that was not hurtful. A year later, they got back together permanently. 

This was over 8 long years

They had another 12 years together before she died. I was at the funeral

I think he told me about this as inspiration, but I don't want this to be my life.

I miss her so much, I wrecked this marriage

I can follow all the gimmicks out there on "How To Get Her Back" they don't work, not for real problems.

Mostly, I know I have to let her go. True Love will come back.

It may be my legacy

I'll wait and see, just concentrate on the little girls right now, sob a lot in silence.


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## swedish

Sorry to hear you are going through this. I think your wife suggesting you should date is her way of trying to feel less guilty about what she is doing. She is still married afterall. IMO, that's the last thing you need right now, even if you wanted to.

I was happy to read you are training for a marathon...I ran the OC 1/2 marathon a few years back and a full one amazes me...and yes, some of the Kenyan full marathon runners passed me up 

Anyway, running is a great way for me to release a lot of built up frustration and I feel good afterwards so that is a great thing to be doing right now, especially with your girls...that is great.

Bottom line, you acknowledge that you did many things wrong as a husband over the years, but don't beat yourself up...it may be too little too late at this point for you to make changes or based on the statistics her new relationship is likely to crash and burn within 6 months and she may have a change of heart. 

At this point, for your own sanity, I would work on changing the things about yourself that you acknowledge were not positive, for you, not to win her back, and start to rebuild confidence in who you are. Eventually, you will get to a place where you will know what you will do in the event she wants to come back and work on the marriage. I wouldn't want the roller coaster your boss described either.


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## dcrim

Well, your boss said counseling helped them. Would it help two? Would she be willing to go? Either individually or joint?


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## perpetua

I am sorry you are in such pain. It can really help to try and think differently about this situation. If you assume it will "destroy" you and your kids, it's much more likely to. If you see it as an opportunity for personal growth and a new stage of life, if you present it as an adventure to your kids (while staying sensitive to their needs), then all of you will do much better. You have said that you aren't burdening your kids, and that's GREAT. They do not need to burden of trying to take care of you, and frankly, behaving in a positive way with and around them will be good for you, too. There is a fine line between accepting one's feelings and giving in to those feelings-the former is necessary, the latter is useless and potentially damaging. But you are doing a lot of things right-finding help in friends and online, venting, pursuing things with your kids (marathon, going out to dinner, etc). Time will really help. I'm already divorced, and I've been through another serious break up, too, and I know that wallowing in self-pity is the WORST thing one can do, and anything you can do to avoid that is great. Best of luck! I have a feeling you will do well, even though it will not feel like that at times.


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## swedish

:iagree:


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## scarletblue

I said pretty much the same things to my now ex-husband. I was done, but I did care about him and want him to be happy. We'd been together since we were 17 and had 4 kids together, too. Weird huh?

I knew I was done. It was way beyond going to counceling or working things out between us. I did want him to be happy and have as painless a divorce as possible though. Unfortunately, I don't think there is any such thing. Keep a journal, when you feel upset and about to scream, write it down, email it, vent on here. It does help to just get it out.

In the end, you both deserve some one who loves you as much as you love them. If she can't do that then take a deep breath, and give yourself the time to heal.


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## dcrim

Outinthecold, have you read my thread on being dumped? That what Scarletblue means. Write. Post. Vent. We're all here for each other.


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## scarletblue

Yeah, what he said! lol


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## outinthecold

I went to therapy today, my therapist was this cute 23 year girl.

My oldest is only 20.

I didn't feel awkward, I told her everything. She was shocked that I would open so much on the first session. She thanked me for being so frank and honest.

I will continue to go.

It felt good to talk it out with a stranger, sort of like here.

I appreciate all the warm sentiment. I don't really know what to do. What I am going to do is concentrate on myself and the girls.

Get myself to a better state of mind.

I do still care for her and want her back but right now I know it is not possible.

Never know though, the future is the future.

Anything can happen, like I could get my ideal woman, top model, trust fund, blonde, Ph.d or MD


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## dcrim

I do hope things are going better for you! Call if you want to...you got my number...


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## outinthecold

scarletblue, your story is very discouraging to me. Not that your personal story is discouraging but my attempts in my future.

I have hope only for the reason, she is a sobbing mess and she was teetering back and forth just a little while ago.

She came back to me, but I blew it. I had not made any real change in my life nor was I able at the time to recognize it. She says she gives me chances all the time but I blow those too. 

Recently, within the past two days, I have experienced just the littlest crack of hope.

We were talking about our deceased grandparents and she teared up. I started rubbing her back, I asked first if it was all right (I have not touched her in over two months). She nodded ok, and we began to talk more deeply about feelings.

Yesterday morning, she said all on her own, "there are moments that I want you as a friend". This is a long way from when two months ago she said, "Friends, we were never friends, why would I want to be your friend, more like yelling".

Right before I went to therapy, she called and we talked for an hour (while I was at work, had to hide in the dead storage) she volunteered, "I know you will get better, you will heal yourself for yourself, I don't want you to wait around for a year or two years or something for me".

I may be disillusion or a true optimist but I think there is just a littlest blade of grass chance here.

I know the attraction is still there. I have lost a lot of weight over these months of being dumped. I catch her eyeing my waist line. She is very aware that I have been dressing nicely for work (I'm usually a slob, this is part of taking care of myself).

We have always had monster attraction for each other. This is another reason why, I think a chance has cropped up and I'm going to nourish it and not do my usual foot stomping on it.

Opinions? Thank You


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## Rhea

Keeping my fingers crossed for you  I just got home from my H's apt  lots of talking and well some other things  I too and hoping there's a whatever blades grass thingy mabobber of a chance too and am not stomping either...

Take it slow as you said baby steps  Rebuild the attraction  Happy Friday


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## dcrim

Out, sounds good...keep hanging in there! Take it easy, slow. It sounds like there's a chance. Fight for it.


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## outinthecold

dcrim, if ever I'm in MO, went to the Big Bass Pro shop there once, I owe you a beer and steak.

Thank you for the support, I wish we could all talk in a room somewhere.

It would loads of help


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## dcrim

Lol, yep I've been in it a few times...not a real outdoors type, myself, though. Mostly I go when I need something specific (like I need a new vest with lots of pockets - this one's getting raggedy; I just don't want a camo one  ). 

Well...beer and steak...sounds like a winner. The best steak I ever had was at a place called Texas Roadhouse, locally. It was for my birthday last year and was so good, I ate it with nothing on it!

Well we are in a room...it's just virtual. Besides with people's distances from each other, there'd be some serious jet lag.  But I know what you mean...sometimes you need to hear a real voice, to see a real person. That's why I offered for you to call me (real sorry I missed the call!). 

Could you imagine everyone from here in a room? It would have to be a grand ballroom or something! And imagine people drifting around to the various conversation topics. No single little group staying constant as people join and move on and return while the topic stayed the same. Sounds like it would be a madhouse!


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## Sufficiently Breathless

I'm so glad your first session went well! And am glad to hear you had some decent conversation with your SO... please continue to go to the therapy sessions, even if things with her seem to be improving, there is nothing wrong with continuing to improve yourself!

I wish you the best 
SB


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## outinthecold

tonight, or rather last night we took the exchange teachers out to dinner along with a few other parents. There were twelve of us. One of the teachers brought up how much our youngest, Sophie looks like her mom, my wife started to tear up.

I don't know how to read these signs, she is already a really emotional person. 

I also don't want to read too much into these. I'm trying to be the best friend I can be.

I can't go back. That part is dead, marriage is dead, my wife really is dead.

I have to concentrate on going forward to woe my wife again.

I know its there, she keeps telling me how she wants so much for me. 

The guy in the picture, she has said that she has an emotional connection and nothing else.

She also has said she respects me too much to have something more while living in the same house. She said she would move out if her relationship moved beyond talking and phone calls or if she were actually dating.

She is a really good woman and her past history has shown me that she always speaks the truth.

But I know, to a woman an emotional connection is everything. 

What do you ladies think?


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## outinthecold

Well one day forward, three days back.

Today, at least nothing is directed at me.

It seems to be between my wife and my oldest.

I think it is because my oldest dislikes her friend Emma.

She slept over last night because she had got kicked out by her room mate.

Emma is a young girl in need of guidance.

It all started because my oldest needed a ride, but my wife said she was going out to garage sale with my youngest and give Emma a ride to work.

The only reason I can't give her a ride is because I left my car at work because it would not start. Bad electrical.

Well I think I am seeing things in a better light.

I'm having to take harder looks and thoughtful looks at my wife.

She's certainly not perfect. That's a talk for another day

Feeling ok right now, going to do some running and keep on that abs of steel regiment.

Thanks all for caring.


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## dcrim

Outinthecold, hang in there. I know it's difficult. 

Three back. I promise it will get better...but it WILL take time. I'm already not hurting any more...2 months after being dumped, 1 month after her wedding. I still don't like it all...but I'm getting on with life! 

One day, even one hour at a time. 

And do NOT get involved with support of Emma!! That will be a disaster for you personally. Do not see her alone! Make sure there's always someone else present.


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## outinthecold

My oldest said to me today that the only guide she has had for love has been her parents.

She believes in true love because she saw that her parents could survive anything.

So she broke up with her boyfriend of almost a year, to be just friends and is now dating another boy so that she can at least have a clear understanding of love and who fits into that glove.

I just found this out a few moments ago. I feel awful. 

My daughter says my wife gives me mixed signals. She asks me to do things for her which is a mixed signal. She also buys me things when out at the store, she has the kids buy me things I know she picked out for me. She puts soda in the refrigerator just for me and then tells me so.

Mixed signals, Huh ?

The wife and I had a little fight today. Not extremely serious but a step backwards.

Although we did resolve it, no make up but we resolved and talked more. She too is hurting over this impending divorce. She too has doubts, she too is crying everyday other what has happened.

She basically cries about everything. She really needs to see a counselor but she won't go.

I was having such a good day today. The sun was out, I was feeling independent. Middle of the day, it was a fight with the wife, now top it off with my daughter in love not in love.

All our fault


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## dcrim

No, not your fault! Life happens...young girls date, fall in/out of love all the time...it's normal.


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## outinthecold

I've been reading this guys post

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/3552-help-hurts-so-bad.html

It just makes me feel all over again.

His emotions almost parallel mine


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## outinthecold

My daughter and I had a long talk about our emotions.

She is so fearful of giving herself in love to her best friend/old boyfriend.

Boys seem to be falling in love with her these days (new guy she is dating). She is really a beautiful girl, not just for the way she looks, but she is a deep person with a giant intellect with an edge to her. No makeup for this girl, I hardly ever see her dress up. 

I know she is smarter than me.

I said the future holds so much promise, it is the future, each branch or choice we make leads us to to another branch or choice.

I sometimes have so much clarity, then it is clouded with emotions.

This morning I woke up, saw my whole situation as a struggle in life. A struggle I must embrace.

Maybe my wife and I are not meant to be forever. Or maybe, she and I need to fix each other before we meet again.

Maybe we are forever

Only time will tell.

I'm not religious but, sometimes in my life it seems coincidental, that a door closes and then a window opens somewhere.

It has happened to me so many times in my life. Like when I met my wife 24 years ago.

I just don't know.

What I do know is that I must get better, I must overcome my passive-aggressive-psychological-disorder it will hinder me for the rest of my life.

I must also not pass it on to my daughters.

Today, I embrace everything, I'm gonna feel everything, I'm gonna do the things I enjoy, I'm gonna give my opinions without fear, I will do things now without waiting, I will learn to love myself.

Most important, I'm gonna love my kids with every drop of blood I have.

My wife gave me four gifts and the fifth the gift of clarity.

I'm gonna cherish these gifts.


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## dcrim

You're doing fine! Hang in there.


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## outinthecold

Thanks dcrim, You got a first name? It might be easier, when I call you.

I'm Hugh

I did good today, did some gardening, found 17 ways to love yourself.

Played soccer, did the ski machine, did abs of steel for 15 minutes.

Ate too much for dinner, but I'll work it off tomorrow.

Hugged my kids today, I have this thing I do where I ask them "whose my favorite?" They all respond at the same time, "Me".

Good kids, I think we will be alright.

It is weird, just thinking about yourself. No wife issues.


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## tobeamiss

Hi Out...
I read from the beginning to the end and it's awsome to see the progress you've made. Keep up the good work. :smthumbup:


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## dcrim

Outinthecold, I'm Dave. Not a real spectacular nick, huh?


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## outinthecold

Thank you for reading from beginning to end.

I flew into Orange County once to the John Wayne airport. Nicest airport I have been too, other than San Jose.

Nice an small, get your own luggage, probably not that way now.

Hay Dave, your on here alot, I see you try and help everybody, you are a good man. I appreciate you.

My wife is still keeping her distance. She said to me today, I acknowledge that I loved you all those years. Which she would not say before, only she was infatuated with me and not really in love.

After some discussion about something she saw on Discovery channel, we had a nice discussion about feelings. How I should keep from talking about my feelings with her, but it was not hurtful. She said a few months ago I would not consider you as a friend, but now we'll see.

When she said that, I saw something in her eyes, it was not complete darkness that I have seen so much these past few months. I saw something, just not darkness and ambilivence. 

Maybe we are not ment to be forever, maybe our journeys together ends here, but I'm gonna hang on just a little bit longer.

I am alright today, mowed the lawn, repeated the 17 ways to love yourself. Gave myself some praise.

I'm going to run now for about 4 miles.

I am going to a movie tonight with myself, "Drag Me To Hell" I love terror films.

I had almost given up all the things I like to do, cook, watch horrors films, play soccer, play tennis, video games (counter strike) although I need a faster computer, play with my daughters, joke around with my daughters, little seven year old wrestling. 

I really do love myself, everybody try it. Go to the mirror and repeat, "I Love You, your good person, I forgive you, you did awesome today" 

At first it seemed hokey but, now I like it.

I'll keep writing, one of these days I'm gonna say, I woke this morning and I'm really really really ok.


----------



## tobeamiss

Hi, I should have said Orange Cty NY. sorry 'bout that. I'm glad you had a good day. They say keeping busy helps alot and I can see that you are. good for you.:smthumbup:


----------



## dcrim

Busy is good to keep your mind occupied...but eventually you need to process the situation. Hugh, my number is still available. 

I had an anxiety attack today. Started thinking again. Due, likely, to xgf's best friend's emails. Rum helps a lot!  

She pointed out that xgf did what she thought she needed to do. I said I understood that but was disappointed in the way I was treated. 

Hugh, keep writing! It does help! You've seen my posts...don't stop.


----------



## dcrim

outinthecold said:


> ...
> Hay Dave, your on here alot, I see you try and help everybody, you are a good man. I appreciate you.
> ...
> QUOTE]
> 
> Yeah. I've learned a lot and try to pay it forward. Thank you, I can only try to help. I have my own pain, like we all do. I work through it, like we all do.


----------



## outinthecold

"Drag Me To Hell" was a pretty good movie.

Ahhh, life is ok, I've got these 17 ways to love yourself posted in my bathroom.

I feel better when I look at them.

The next two years are gonna be hard. She is moving upstairs, there will definitely be a separation.

I will just keep going. Sometimes I think this is my wife's hiatus. Probably not a good idea. She is not coming back. 

I really have to move on. I'm trying, I'm trying.


----------



## Rhea

What is this "17 ways to love yourself I keep hearing you mention? I really need some self love (lol sorry that made me chuckle...not THAT kind of self love, but the 17 ways kind)


----------



## outinthecold

17 ways to love yourself, love yourself and love will find you

How To Love Yourself In 17 Ways | Attraction Mind Map


----------



## outinthecold

People are automatically attracted to people who exhibit love for themselves. Not in a narcissistic way, but you have peace when you love yourself, forgive yourself, praise yourself, appreciate yourself, thank yourself for just getting up in the morning. 

You have another day to live in this beautiful world.


----------



## dcrim

I went to that link. Then hit the "home" button. It looks like there's some good info on that site. I'm going to give it more of a read. 

Outinthecold, how are you doing today? I'm not feeling the anxiety I did yesterday. More back to normal.


----------



## outinthecold

I am feeling a little apprehensive today. The theory of mingling particles is really taking a toll on me today.

The theory goes, that particles mingle somewhere in space, then the particles can't exist without the mingled particles. Psychologists applied this theory to humans. I heard this on Science Friday a few weeks ago.

They tested couples who had been together more than 10 years. They put one spouse in one room and the other totally hidden but close in a separate room. Nothing connected. 

One spouse would listen to music, read, look at magazines. The other spouse was shown random pictures with a picture of their spouse mixed in. When they were shown the picture of their spouse, their blood pressure would go up, their heart would increase, their body temperature would go up and so on. Nothing unusual, but what was unusual, the spouse who could not be seen also had the exact same reaction at the exact same moment. 

Psychologists say that particles, let's say the essence of who we are mingle over a period of time (maybe this explains chemistry) and they now can't do without each other. Our bodies become one, sort of. This might also explain why an older spouse dies and a short time later the other spouse dies. Their essence is gone and their bodies can't live without it.

I'm there right now, I've had no physical contact with my wife in about two days, I think I need some contact or my body is out of wack. If this theory is true, it also applies to her.

Think on this, let me know what you think.


----------



## outinthecold

They tested 40 couples and got 40 out of 40 with the same response.

If this is true, then this would explain early couple breakup, their essence did not like each other, it would also explain repeat relationships, repeat marriage. Break-ups that stayed broken up.

There always seems to be a science to our bodies and our interaction with other bodies.


----------



## outinthecold

I uploaded a photo of my family to my profile, their beautiful aren't they. 

I'm having a hard morning.

I so miss everything.


----------



## outinthecold

My youngest slipped off of a slide beam today and landed on her arm.

Her elbow is bruised terribly.

She has it in a sling.

We went to the doctor together, wife and I, when the little one and I came back from the x-ray room, she was all in tears.

This is the way it has been at our house.

I don't know how to read these, or if there is even a way to read these.

Anybody got any ideas?


----------



## dcrim

Out, sorry...I was on the road all day. 

I'm aware of the commingling of particles theory. With paired particles, what happens to one, affect the other the same way. This is used in photon resonance to "communicate" FTL. Nice idea and the quantum possibilities are fascinating!  Especially in the realm of computing!  

Ok. so I'm a nerd. Get over it!  Stong background in science, chaos theory, games theory, computing...yadda yadda...


----------



## outinthecold

Yeah, me too

I'm an IS Manager for a local A|E firm. We have four offices spread throughout the state. North, not so North, West and Central.

I studied Computer Science in college.

The only thing I didn't do that was nerdy was when I was an artillery officer in the Army. I got out in 92, right after the first gulf war.


----------



## Rhea

:scratchhead:


outinthecold said:


> I am feeling a little apprehensive today. The theory of mingling particles is really taking a toll on me today.
> 
> The theory goes, that particles mingle somewhere in space, then the particles can't exist without the mingled particles. Psychologists applied this theory to humans. I heard this on Science Friday a few weeks ago.
> 
> They tested couples who had been together more than 10 years. They put one spouse in one room and the other totally hidden but close in a separate room. Nothing connected.
> 
> One spouse would listen to music, read, look at magazines. The other spouse was shown random pictures with a picture of their spouse mixed in. When they were shown the picture of their spouse, their blood pressure would go up, their heart would increase, their body temperature would go up and so on. Nothing unusual, but what was unusual, the spouse who could not be seen also had the exact same reaction at the exact same moment.
> 
> Psychologists say that particles, let's say the essence of who we are mingle over a period of time (maybe this explains chemistry) and they now can't do without each other. Our bodies become one, sort of. This might also explain why an older spouse dies and a short time later the other spouse dies. Their essence is gone and their bodies can't live without it.
> 
> I'm there right now, I've had no physical contact with my wife in about two days, I think I need some contact or my body is out of wack. If this theory is true, it also applies to her.
> 
> Think on this, let me know what you think.


Wow...this is very interesting...I too feel out of whack and get to meddling on it and then I hear from him that day. It's really odd I've been baffled by it. Actually I was talking to my friend about it the other day. We were emailing and I got a text from him I was like girl maybe this is coencidence (sp) but everytime we talk about him or something or talk about me not hearing from him or making it to a record on the NC thing bam! He shows up. Texts, calls, something. I've always found it odd. I get to where I don't call or text and I'm like that's it he's going to stop calling or texting, we'll get to like day 6 and he's ALWAYS the one to break NC, always! :scratchhead:


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## outinthecold

It is a theory, not much scientific data to back this up, except for this one test.

It seems logical, but humans and their essence, nothing logical about that.


----------



## dcrim

Quantum entanglements - boy did this thread morph!  

I hope you're feeling/doing better today, Out! I'm doing well. Most of the day on the road just mindless driving...well, not too mindless! Lots of twisty roads in AR.


----------



## outinthecold

Yesterday, when we were at the doctors with our little one, I sat down in the waiting room next to our daughter, my wife was on the other side of a strait set of chairs. My wife looked up and smiled at me. Just for a brief moment, she looked happy to see me.

While in the exam room, she talked like she use to.

I'm not really hopeful, but it seems more positive than ambivalence.

Give me strength people.

It is nearing the end of the school year, kids will be home all the time.

I can finally get to work on time.

From now on, I will probably won't see her much, she is moving upstairs.

Maybe this less contact will test the commingling of particles theory.

I'll let you know.


----------



## outinthecold

Just now, she wanted to talk more about legal separation or actual divorce.

It took everything I had to keep it together on the phone.

I was agreeable, I said we could do it on-line. We don't have any assets so it would be easy.

I just kept thinking about the plants and trees to keep from bursting out.

Every sign I see from her means nothing.

I must accept the divorce as going to happen.

I can't stop it.


----------



## dcrim

Hang in there dude. It will take some time yet. 

I thought it would never end, but actually on my way to work today I realized that I'm no longer or hurting or angry. 

I can't promise the same length of time...but as long as she stays in the same house you will not begin the healing process! 

Try to get one of you to move out asap. I've seen motels with weekly rates around $179 or so. Or call various hotel/motels to see what they offer like that. That might work if you (or more likely her) can manage it. Get separated, more space between you.


----------



## outinthecold

I've calmed down since this afternoon. I've formulated a plan for getting her out.

I'm going to borrow on my 401K and give her the money to leave. She and her debts go with the divorce.

No claim on the house, no child support (they stay with me), joint custody. She can come in any time to visit, just so long as I am not there, no staying over.

She takes her car, I'll pay the insurance for the next two years, I'll pay tuition for this fall.

Seems equitable to me, since she is the one who wants the divorce.

What do you guys think?


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## tobeamiss

I like it. Enough messing around. She wants her divorce but wants the convenience and security of being home around family? Is she too chicken to move out and do it on her own? She's the one who started this mess but it looks like you're the one who will have to finish it. I think you're right to ask her to leave. She's had the luxury of having someone who still wants her around so therefore she gets a free ride. Gets her freedom and still has a roof over her head and security? Just a woman's opinion here.


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## outinthecold

tobeamiss

Thank you for reinforcing my plan.

From everything I have read about this situation, it is best for all if the one that wants the divorce moves out.

Lingering around makes it false hope for the girls.

Plus it gives them what they want, which sometimes, "Wanting is not the same as having" or "Grass is not greener on the other side"

I don't want to be right, I just want to wind up Ok, along with the girls.


----------



## dcrim

Outinthecold, please check with an accountant before you make that withdrawal. You will have to pay income tax on whatever you withdraw. 

Find out how much you need for your goals, what the tax rate is and take enough to pay the taxes and end up with your goal amount. 

As for the divorce, do it as quickly and amicably as possible. Get it over, don't draw it out. The sooner done, the sooner you'll heal. If you can work it out without lawyers, better. 

Perhaps draw up a letter or document on division of assets, responsibilities, visitation schedule, etc. and have it notarized and file at the clerk's office the necessary paperwork for divorce. There is usually more than simply saying it's over...often there's paperwork on assets, income, etc. Make sure you get all forms needed. 

My (ex) wife (and I...sigh...but more her) had run up a large credit card debt. I ended up burning through my IRA to pay for it.


----------



## outinthecold

Well folks, we are headed for the big D.

We are going to do it online. I'm getting together the funds to pay her bills and the agreement for monthly alimony.

She is going to move out in a few weeks, nothing available right now.

She still wanted to move upstairs, but I asked her to do this with an open mind. No commitments, no promises toward our marriage. She just was not to mention divorce and to keep an open mind while she lived under my roof.

She said no, but prefaced it with "You are a really good man, good looking, no father better than you" but still said, "No".

So I did the only thing I could.

I asked her to move out and get on with living the divorce she wants.

You can't cut off your arm one finger at a time. You can't divorce someone over three(3) years in the same house and ask your husband to please move on and stop loving you.

I'm not a super-emotional-man able to forget love in a single bound.

I think I will be ok, but it will take about 5 years to recover from this money hit.

I told her she can come over to the house any time she wants, stay as long as she wants, do laundry, just not while I am there.

The girls and I will be Ok, I'm pretty sure.

I wish I had a happy ending for this, but we are not in the movies.

No invented situation to rescue us, no emotional moment where we look into each other's eyes and see something.

I'm not even sad at this moment, but I know I will be down the line.


----------



## outinthecold

Thank you people for friending me, I'm not sure what friending means in this forum.

Can someone enlighten me?


----------



## outinthecold

She is leaving, she is moving down the street to an apartment near our home with a girlfriend.

She says she can't stay with an open mind because she has chosen not to love me anymore.

It is a choice.

My friends say this is the right course, she needs to be on her own to reflect, to live her decision.

I forced her to choose, am I making the right decision?

Am I making a huge mistake?

Advice anyone?

I am trying to save my family.


----------



## dcrim

I'm so sorry...but she does need to move out. I know the hurt, the pain. but You will heal better with her gone.


----------



## outinthecold

Yep, I know


----------



## dcrim

Outinthecold, how are you doing today? 

We're all here for a reason, often a painful one. Only someone who is/has experienced that knows what advice to give. That's why we're here for each other. 

Lots of pain (almost made me leave last year!) but lots of good advice, too (that's why I stayed). 

Today's my BD! Come on over Friday...the kids are bringing a cake!  And probably balloons, too --- oh, shoot...I have vaulted ceilings!!


----------



## tobeamiss

yes I believe you made the right decision to ask her to move out. You did not force her to choose. she made the choice in the first place to get divorced. You didn't force anything. I believe you've done the right thing. Can I ask you a question? You don't have to answer but....why will you be paying her alimony? won't support for the girls be enough? I'm not familiar with the laws of your state but alimony is outdated now isn't it? Unless the break-up was your fault, I don't believe she'll be qualifying for alimony.


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## outinthecold

tobeamiss

I don't know the answer.

I will have to go see a lawyer then.

I'll let you know in a couple of days.


----------



## outinthecold

Well, she called me at work yesterday.

At first, it was just banter about our 3rd child's upcoming 13th birthday.

Then on the 4th phone call, she was sobbing, apparently she was attempting to pack her stuff or go through it.

She says, "I don't know where to start" crying (a lot of stuff after 24 years)

Now she wants to talk.

My office wife (I confide in her a lot, she's 10 years older and wiser) says, "don't help her to leave, she has to realize what she is giving up and she also thinks my wife is having a mid-life crisis".

I would have to agree somewhat.

We were suppose to talk last night, but she worked from morning until night. She went to bed early. 

She is a manager at our local athletic facility. It is the nicest one in the area, too bad I have terrible feelings about the place now.

We are suppose to talk this morning.

I'm up early as you can tell, I'll let everyone know.

I have no hope these days.

I'm just resigned to divorce.


----------



## outinthecold

We had the talk, not what I thought

She is filing today.


----------



## dcrim

Hang in there! It only seems like the end of the world. It's not. 

You had the talk this early? sheesh...what a way to start the day...


----------



## outinthecold

I'm having an awful moment.

I thought I would be prepared, but I'm just 

Everything hurts

Everything


----------



## dcrim

I know. I know. Just breathe. In, out. Repeat as necessary. Come on, you can do it. Hang on a little longer. Then longer. 

I will be getting ready to go to work in a few minutes...I wish I had the time to call you! I'll try when I get in the car, ok?


----------



## outinthecold

We had a moment together near the sink in the kitchen.

I stroked her face, she asked me what I was thinking.

I said, "I was thinking how you have become so much more beautiful with each year I have known you"

We hugged and I said, "I want so much to be your best friend we already are the best parents".

She said, "Down the road, not now, sometime down the road"

We hugged harder, she told me how much she loved me but we just don't get along for a marriage.

She wants me to marry a super model

It will be alright, I think

Sometime


----------



## dcrim

Nah, you don't want a super model.


----------



## Sufficiently Breathless

Outinthecold... It will be alright! Keep telling yourself that. And don't take everything she says to heart. You guys are in the beginning stages of everything yet.. so you both are probably a little confused. 

There is a silver lining to ever cloud, and sometimes when God shuts a door he opens a window.. yadda yadda yadda...

Look I know you've heard it all before, and people are trying to tell you to keep your chin up. And I understand that its hard to do. 

So get your mind off of it for one day! Take those beautiful kids of yours out for ice cream, or a walk in the park. Do something for YOURSELF. Forget about it for one day. It really can help! 

How are the counseling sessions going? Is she doing some counseling too? Give those kiddos a big fat hug and never let go! Hang on to the things you do have in your life.. and let go of the ones you can't control... if even for one day 

Keeping you in my prayers
SB


----------



## tobeamiss

I'm getting ready for work now but I do have to say I agree with your 'office wife'...this is her thing and she has to do it on her own. Let us know what your lawyer says. I'm sure she won't qualify for alimony. You can't suffer financially too. good luck!


----------



## outinthecold

It is a really a weird breakup.

We still love each other, me more on the romantic side. There are no outside influences like infidelity, money, drugs, alcohol, abuse or anything other than we don't get along the greatest.

All she really wanted was for me to be her best friend.

She said, "If you are my best friend, then you can't be if we are married, the best friend goes away when you are a spouse"

I know there is a chance somewhere down the years, I have to get myself ready when the chance appears.

I know, I know I sound like a sap, but I am a one lobster kind of a guy.

I only like chocolate a strawberry ice cream. I'm not boring, I like what I like.

She is my strawberry blond.


----------



## Blonddeee

I'm sorry you are going through such a tough time... it will get better. I like this quote from Marilyn Monroe... kind of a girly quote, but it makes me feel better-
""I believe that everything happens for a reason. People change so that you can learn to let go, things go wrong so that you learn to appreciate them when they're right. You believe lies so you eventually learn to trust no one but yourself...and sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.""


----------



## outinthecold

Thanks blonddeee

It is not too girly, I get along better with women than I do men, I guess that is because of my single mother upbringing. 

I appreciate you and Dave, Sufficiently Breathless, tobeamiss all trying to help me.

I have to do this, I'll look for that open window, something to fall together, and that strawberry ice cream I love so much.


----------



## outinthecold

The thing of it is, I know she loves me. 

She knows she loves me. 

She just can't be with me.

Not right now.


----------



## outinthecold

I am such a sap.

I'll work on not being such a sap.

I'm taking all of these things everyone says to heart and mind.

Dave dcrim called me today, he was concerned.

Anyone else want to call to talk or listen I'm all ears.

Send me some email and I'll give you my number, or give me yours, I'll call you.


----------



## dcrim

Not a sap, guy. Just blindsided by life. 

We finally got to talk on the phone. I shared some more of my stories. I don't think you're going to do anything rash...but sometimes it's just good to hear an actual voice rather than a keyboard. 

If I helped, or distracted you, then I'm glad I could.


----------



## outinthecold

I saw my therapist today, she is a help.

Good talking to a complete stranger, like you Dave

So was talking to my boss.

They said, I need to feel everything and to let it wave over me. My therapist said, I should not block the waves with a wall. Metaphorically, the wall inhibits the waves from going over me. 

Eventually, the waves will break the wall and all the emotions I should have felt in smaller quantities will come out in a huge mess.

I'm listening to everyone.

Thank You All for helping me.


----------



## outinthecold

I think I am ready. 

We are going to tell the children about the divorce this Saturday.

It is going to be a horrible day.


----------



## dcrim

Hang in there, dude. 

Like I told you...make sure you tell them it's not THEM! It's you and their mom! You're doing this for you both, NOT the kids. 

You got my number, call if you need someone to talk to. 

As the STAHD, you are what the kids know...just keep it up. I know it hurts when your heart has a hole in it. 

Hang on...we'll all be there for you! Always!


----------



## 3dfan

Time is a best doctor and you need to go out - meet with your friends and you will definetely find someone else! Good luck!:smthumbup:

free glitters


----------



## outinthecold

I am ok today.

I spent yesterday an almost gusher about to happen

But today, I don't feel anything.

It helps she is a total rag today.

Irritated about everything.

I am having some hard looks at her, she is not the person she was just a few months ago.

She looks aged, maybe from all the stress.

I am ok, no feelings. Maybe this is the numb stage, my boss said I would go through this.

I'm hoping this is the, I'm recovered stage.

Actually, I can't wait for her to move out now, that is how I feel today.


----------



## outinthecold

My feeling ok, is due to getting a good nights sleep.

Sleep and rest really important


----------



## tobeamiss

Helloooo numb stage! This is a good thing. You're seeing her now for what she really is at this point. By that I mean a stranger...someone you don't know anymore. You always thought you did but you don't. I think you're numb because you're not going to let her toy with your emotions anymore. False hope is a nightmare to live thru isn't it? It's not fair when people give us false hope just to soften the blow a little bit. 
But anyway, about tomorrow....this is only my opinion but, I would let her do all the explaning to the kids. Let her be the one to open the conversation, give the terrible news, and explain why she's doing what she's doing. When you think about it you're not really not in a position to tell the kids anyway. This is just as much a shock to you as it will be for the them. You didn't ask for this either. So therefore, let her do all the talking.....and the only thing you can do is be there for the kids when it's all said and done. Tell them that they still get to keep both of you, only separately. Again this is only my opinion.
Then you know what I would do? I would take them for ice cream or something as a whole family so they feel a little more secure after hearing the news. 
I'm so sorry you have to go through this. Wish I could say something to help you. 
good luck tomorrow...


----------



## outinthecold

tobeamiss, these online handles are hard to deal with. I know people want anonymity but do you have a first name?

I will follow your advice, I don't know, I do but I can't explain it to the kids because I'm not the one, not in love anymore and I'm not the one leaving.

So many negatives, I must be at some numb stage because we just calmly talked about the divorce, she handed me paperwork and we talked about some details about where to sign.

I had feelings, no emotions to ask her back, or plead like I was before.

There was nothing in my head except details of the details of the paperwork.

She does look like a stranger. I mean she looks the same but I don't know her any more.

We could have just been strangers talking about anything.

Thank You


----------



## tobeamiss

My name is Marg. It sounds like you're doing ok tonight. Actually seeing the paperwork does things like that too. You start to get wrapped in the details and you're able to put your emotions to the side. Read those papers carefully. I hope she's going to play fair and not try to take advantage of you. Think down the road about the money issue. Look at what you're going to need in your pocket to be able to be the father you want to be. If you're broke all the time then there will be many many times that you'll find yourself telling the kids that "you can't afford it". I had to say it alot and it broke my heart. It still does to this day when I think back even though my kids are grown and out of the house now. 
Well I guess I've said enough. I hope you can get another good night's sleep. You're right, it really does make a difference.


----------



## Rhea

outinthecold said:


> tobeamiss, these online handles are hard to deal with. I know people want anonymity but do you have a first name?
> 
> I will follow your advice, I don't know, I do but I can't explain it to the kids because I'm not the one, not in love anymore and I'm not the one leaving.
> 
> So many negatives, I must be at some numb stage because we just calmly talked about the divorce, she handed me paperwork and we talked about some details about where to sign.
> 
> I had feelings, no emotions to ask her back, or plead like I was before.
> 
> There was nothing in my head except details of the details of the paperwork.
> 
> She does look like a stranger. I mean she looks the same but I don't know her any more.
> 
> We could have just been strangers talking about anything.
> 
> Thank You


Online handles are a pita are they not? LOL I'd post my name but it's not Susy, Sarah, or Jane. Maybe I'll sign mine someday but it'd be very obvious to anyone whom knows me that it's me here. Hell the pic of the dog would be obvious too so I guess I have nothing to lose. LOL.

I'm truely sorry for what you're going thru, it's sad how many of us here can feel your pain OITC (hehe I abbreviated your handle).

Stay strong for those kiddos of yours. I agree w/TBAM let the stbx W handle the conversation she is the one whom initiated and is following thru. Kids are smart they know what's going on regardless of how hard you bust your a** to keep it from them. They can tell when things are changing, thing is some are just too young to put it into words to ask questions. One thing, just make sure they know it's not their fault. They will adapt. No, this isn't the life that you chose for them nor would anyone choose for their kids. BUT take it from me. My mother is on marriage #4 (yikes) and my Dad is married to his 3rd wife. There is so much divorce in my family it's rediculous. Funny thing is there is NO and I mean NO divorce in my husband's family other than his Grandpa.

I vowed I'd do everything within my power to make my ONE marriage last and yet I'm losing it. I can say one thing though. It's not by my choice. I love my H dearly and still would move the world to keep him around and make this last. 

Keep your chin up. Keep posting. My heart goes out to you I can honestly say I KNOW what you're going through and so do many MANY others here. 

Much love,
Rhea


----------



## Rhea

Oh...just to make something clear lol. Although my Dad is on wife number 3 he's been married to her for 23 years. My mother was his second wife (she cheated on him) and his first wife he married back in the day when it was thought that you had to get hitched if you were having a child together.

Not that my Dad will ever visit this site. But I just don't want to put a negative image of him out there. He's one hell of a man and treats his wife the way I can only dream of being treated one day and his wife treats him the same way. They are a true picture of true undying love. Through travisty, illness, ageing etc, they love today like they just fell in love yesterday.

My Mom and her 4 marriages on the other hand.....a whole different story LMAO!


----------



## outinthecold

Marg and Rhea

Thanks so much for the encouraging words. I am going to let her talk.

We have been together so long. 

I got her up to college, she was miserable with her mother (divorced). I made her fill out the application, I made her fill out the financial aid forms. I supported her until her money came in. She only stayed at the dorm a few times, she stayed with me at my apartment all the rest of the time.

We got married, we had our first baby, we went on active duty together in Oklahoma, she went to tea parties, everybody loves being around my wife.

We came off of active duty, we had our second child. We moved to Lansing, we had our third child at home (midwives), I lost my father, I lost my grandmother, she lost her grandfather, she lost her grandmother, she lost her other grandfather.

Graduations, births, nephews and nieces, babies and more babies in the family.

Our fourth child born at home (midwives)

We were there for each other through all of it. 

Now it is all gone.

I'm sad again, I'm sad again for my loss and hers.

We were suppose to be together forever.

I need some sleep.

I love you all.

Thank You


----------



## Rhea

OITC wow...you brought tears to my eyes. I can feel your love for this woman through the words you type. 

You know I must say the thing that shocks me the most on this site is the long term 15+ year marriages that are having difficulties/ending/mending. I've always admired those in 15, 20, 30 year marriages and although I know it's a constant work in progress I'm just like d*mn they made it 15 years they're going to make it to forever. To me I can't understand why someone who'd put 15+ years into a marriage even though it wasn't perfect wouldn't put in the time to mend it. No one sticks around that long when they don't love someone. 

I don't know everyone's stories personally and I'm sure not everyone has the time to write every detail. It's insane the amount of love poured out on this site through threads, updates, and responses. It's also insane the stories I read of what people's spouses (mine included) are doing to us, the ones they vowed to love through good times, bad, in sickness and in health, etc. You know what I mean.

Again OITC you're in my thoughts I'm so sorry  Hugs to you, you sound like a wonderful man and your kids are truely blessed to have a role model such as yourself. 

Much Love,
Rhea


----------



## outinthecold

Thank you so much Rhea for understanding.

She has her flaws, but I don't see any of them.

She is a wonderful mother, she does not let the kids get away with anything.

She just had enough of worrying about me, waiting for me to build, to let go, to be at peace, to stop hurting, to stop arguing, to be heard, and did I say to stop arguing.

Did I tell you we met on the highway?

She was coming up to school for a swim meet, senior in HS and I was a sophmore.

Her girlfriend was driving and spotted my room mate, they each rolled down the window and yelled, "Wanna go hang out, Yeah", traveling 60 miles and hour, her girlfriend at the time was very wild.

First time I saw her, she wore a sweatshirt that said, "Merry Me"

They came back to the dorms with us, made a lot of noise, all the guys came out to see (all guy dorm), I didn't really want anything to do with HS girls, until, she typed out a message to friend on a typewriter (anybody remember those), "Happy Birthday". She smiled at me through the corner of her mouth. I think at that moment I fell in love with her. The RA kicked them out of the dorm, too much noise. 

It took me a while to find her (3 weeks of searching phone books), I only knew her name from the note she typed. When I found her it was like magic meant to be. We were together for about a month until she dumped me.

I went off to basic training (ROTC thing), I called her when I came back (4 months later), just to see how she was. She said on the phone, "I love you", We have never been apart since.

Lots of stars aligned for us to be together.

I have to let her go now.

I know she has hurt built over the years of just waiting for me, I always thought when I do this next thing I will be happy, I've realized too late the journey with her was my happiness. 

Sitting on a park bench, watching our children running around, quietly holding hands, looking at her hair waving in the breeze.

If I could just have that back. Just for a moment.

This is why I have no anger for her. I never will.

I'm really blubbering now.

I can't see the keyboard any more, my tears are just overwhelming me.


----------



## outinthecold

I'm sorry Rhea, I was just concentrating on myself.

If ever I could be of any help, like Dave has been for me.

If you wanted to talk to a stranger, hear your story.

Send me a message


----------



## tobeamiss

hang in there today and stay strong for the kids. Good Luck!


----------



## dcrim

I like that idea...ler HER explain to the kids...wonderful Just don't argue the point in front of them.


----------



## Rhea

outinthecold said:


> I'm sorry Rhea, I was just concentrating on myself.
> 
> If ever I could be of any help, like Dave has been for me.
> 
> If you wanted to talk to a stranger, hear your story.
> 
> Send me a message


You have every right to concentrate on yourself OITC. No worries. I hope you're having an ok day today. 

Keep posting so we know you're tolerating. 

Hugs
Rhea


----------



## dcrim

Out, how are doing? You got my number if you need anything. Just wanted to check on you...


----------



## Rhea

OITC, you there buddy? Post or call D so we know you're ok. Thinking of you and sending the best your way. 

Rhea


----------



## tobeamiss

Hey there H...just wondering how everything went today and how you're doing. Let us know =] We're thinking of you.


----------



## outinthecold

Sorry, folks my oldest had to work today. 

It will not be until Sunday.

My wife Renee is the most upset right now. She has been crying about it.

She says after tomorrow, they will not want anything to do with her.

I did not do my usual, "You can stay" blubbering stuff.

I was amazingly calm, from everything I have about this, there is no way at this point to get her to change her mind or to retrieve our love.

I went to a graduation open house down the street, old friends of ours, their son is headed for Pepperdine on a full scholarship. Good kid, good family.

I had some Jim Beam, I'm not a drinker but Dave wanted me to have a little to stop my mind from racing. 

It worked, I just had a little.

I started out, or this morning blubbering, but I am very optimistic about my future.

I feel, maybe the window that is opening or the thing that is right is my re-connection with mother and sister. 

I had written them off a while ago because of something yet again my mother did to me and my sister has countless strikes against her in life, I don't need to be one of them.

If this had not happened, I would never have talked to them again.

Yes it was that serious.

But, my mother is reaching her late 70's and not really in good health. My sister is desperate for someone to love her. She got into trouble recently and had to be hospitalized in a group home for evaluation.

Maybe this is it, I have to be there for them of which I was not before.

Over the years they had done so many rotten things to me that I just gave up this last time.

As I say, I am strangely calm and looking forward to whatever tomorrow brings. My future is bright, I need shades.

I feel heavenly optimistic.

Now, it is my future ex-wife I am really worried about. She is just full of emotion and pulling herself down. I care for her deeply, spending the last 24 years with her just doesn't go away, even in this situation. I will do everything I can to help her and the kids transition.

Marg, Rhea, Dave, nurse, Blondee

Thank you for caring.

I'll let you know when tomorrow happens.


----------



## Rhea

OITC good to hear from you...sounds like this is all just "hitting" the wife. Interesting.


----------



## dcrim

So glad to hear from you! We were worried. Glad you're ok! Definately keep us updated...we all care even if we can't fix things...


----------



## outinthecold

I just got done with a big piece of cheese cake. WOW the calories.

I am extremely tired, but I am still calm.

I think I'll head off to bed now.

Whatever happens tomorrow, I know I will be alright along with the kids.

It will be my wife that will have the hardest time. She has to explain why she is leaving her family behind.

I don't know if the window is my mother and sister. I have no other family except them and an aunt in Ohio.

My aunt is pushing 80, and in good health.

The part that I will miss is the unconditional love. When my grandmother died I lost someone who loved me without question.

The only other person is my wife, she loved me, she just loved me.

I will miss that, you know the old song, "Alone again, naturally". It seems so apropos.

My boss said visualize what you future will be. I choose to visualize my family together.

It may or may not happen, but I'm optimistically optimistic.

Till tomorrow

-H


----------



## tobeamiss

Hi there. I'm glad to see you're doing ok and keeping yourself busy. At least you're able to leave the house and keep your mind occupied. Even eating cheesecake =]
When you say your wife is leaving her family behind, are you saying that you'll be keeping the kids? Will you have sole custody and her with only visitation?
Good luck today. You'll come thru this with flying colors!


----------



## outinthecold

We will have shared custody, but her school and work schedule will keep her from seeing the kids often.

She hardly spends time with them now.

She works early morning 5-10 and then closings 4-11

It seems more these days. Then she works every Sat and Sun 11PM to 7AM at a different job she got as an intern.

Then the other times she is catching up on sleep.

Add school in there during the fall and I don't know when she will have time.

I have a regular flexible work schedule, 9-5 with some evening hours but only after people are asleep. Computer work, you have to do it when others are not using the system.

Yes, the kids are staying with me. I will be the primary care giver. I retain the home.

I said she can come over any time, do laundry, eat, be with the kids, no overnight s and just not while I am here.

Today is the day

I'll you guys know later on.


----------



## tobeamiss

I see. Well then that means that you won't have to pay child support or alimony. That's great. When you go in front of the judge he will probably make her pay something. I only bring this up because I had custody of the kids and it's something you have to think about. Only having one paycheck in the house it can get a little expensive.
I sure wish you luck today.


----------



## outinthecold

My wife and I had a conversation before we were going to tell them. She said I thought you were going to support me.

I said No, I'm here to support the girls, I'm here to support them during and after but I'm not here to support you.

This question was really weird, she has been constantly telling me I'm not here to support you but all of a sudden I have to support her.

She also wanted to tell them I am forcing her to leave the house. I had to ask, "Why do you want to stay? go live your divorce, you want to be divorced you go and live it, you can't live under my roof under my support and be divorced"

I thought this was total BS

We told them

It is done, the girls took it amazingly well, there was a lot of crying but they are onto their activities right now.

I'm totally shocked.

I hugged them, told them how special each one was, how much we both loved them. We would always be their parents.

I'm really shocked at how calm I am. I just want to do more yard work and throw stuff away.

I'm really Ok, I'm ready to get on with it and have her move out.

At this point, I think I am actually more stable than her.

She still has some heavy conflict within herself. She will not say about what, if it is the marriage, or the girls or what? 

I know she is emotionally a wreck.

I'm fine.

Thank You all, it went better than I thought


----------



## tobeamiss

:scratchhead:
there's so much I could say right now but.....

anyway, I'm proud of the way you handled the situation. You're definitely more stable than she is. You're going to be just fine.


----------



## dcrim

Dang, dude...You have my number! call if you need to. She sounds so cold-hearted... just hang in there! I know it hurts...


----------



## outinthecold

Marg, please speak your mind.

I'm very interested in what you have to say.


----------



## dcrim

I know how it was when I told our kids we were separating. They took it well, but they also had seen how we were.

Kids are more resilient than we think. And they don't want to see their parents suffering. 

Hang in there! Keep on taking care of the girls! 

One day, maybe many years from now, you will realize that this is the best thing to happen to you. And provide you with more opportunities to live. And to love.


----------



## Rhea

Wow...she's an interesting person. She wants this but wants you to "own" it for her. Odd. :scratchhead:


----------



## sisters359

I've been following your "story" (for lack of a better word). Your kids will do better if they are not forced to "blame" one parent. Please be careful not to let your bitterness infect them. So far, you seem to have done amazingly well, but the one line about how the kids will know who is to blame, that worries me. You can be honest about the change being hard, and feeling sad, but if you can focus on the challenge of change (and not whose fault those changes are), you will be teaching your kids a valuable lesson about handling what life brings without forcing them to take sides. 

Best of luck. I believe you will be happier down the road but only time will tell; I sure hope that is the case.


----------



## dcrim

Yeah, hang in there H! We're all pulling for you!


----------



## outinthecold

I told the kids repeatedly, no one is at fault.

She chose to tell them by herself because I would not go as a unit and say we came to this together. 

My friend said I should, but I do not feel this way. I did hug them and stay with them until they stopped crying.

I kept telling them the quote about things happening for a reason, recognizing things when they are right, things fall apart so they can be put back together.

It seemed to quiet them. I reminded them it was nobody's fault.

We would always love them as parents, mommy and papa

I was going to be around for a long time for them, so I could see my grandchildren.

I pointed no fingers and laid no blame.

I'm not a religious man, but I have been praying a lot lately. I'm even tempted to go to church by myself. Don't want to seem like too much of a hypocrite to my kids.

I've signed up to donate bone marrow, don't know if I will get called but I need to do something for others.

I also signed up to volunteer at the local hospital. Helping people with real problems will get my mind off of myself.

I'll keep posting on our progress.

Thank you all for reading and responding. All the well wishing is much much much much appreciated.

-H


----------



## outinthecold

You know I'm good today too.

Got up, did my abs of steel video, did a half an hour on my ski machine.

My waist is down to a 34, wow I was at almost 40 a few months ago.

I have to go shopping, my old pants are tooo big.

Maybe my soon to be ex-wife does have a point about compatability.

My boss related to me his story of how he got back with his wife after an 8 year hiatis, but he also said his compatability was almost zero. She did other things than him. He did other things than her. They butted heads about a lot of things, but they loved each other.

His new wife (his first wife died) is almost 100% likes the same things he does. She was an old HS friend that popped up about two years after his wife died. 

There are no coincidences, so I have been told.

My wife and I have different interests. We have/had great passion for each other, I guess it is not enough to make a lasting marriage.

The more I read this the more I like it, from Blonddeee

"I believe that everything happens for a reason. People change so that you can learn to let go, things go wrong so that you learn to appreciate them when they're right. You believe lies so you eventually learn to trust no one but yourself...and sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together"


----------



## dcrim

OITC, I'm glad you're doing ok. I'm glad the kids accept it. They won't like it, but acceptance is a start. Never put down their mom. Just let the issue drop. Be there for them and they'll be fine. And so will you.


----------



## outinthecold

She is coming into the office, we need to sign the 401K papers together.

It is going to be tense.

She is also bringing the divorce confirmation paper work today. You know, those of you who have been serverd by an agent of the court. 

AAAaaaaahhahahahah

I was having a good day today too.

I still miss her.

Chin up, breath deep, keep the watery eyes to a minimum


----------



## Blonddeee

This too shall pass- be strong and you WILL get through this


----------



## outinthecold

Thanks, Blonddeee

She just left, ahhhhh, my heart hurts

I think I will go to lunch


----------



## outinthecold

I don't see the silver lining yet.

I don't see the window.

It is still breaking.

It is all wrong.

Looking for that reason.

Can't find any of it, yet


----------



## Rhea

outinthecold said:


> I don't see the silver lining yet.
> 
> I don't see the window.
> 
> It is still breaking.
> 
> It is all wrong.
> 
> Looking for that reason.
> 
> Can't find any of it, yet


Couldn't have said it better myself. But it will get better...I keep saying that.


----------



## outinthecold

Having a real difficult day now.

Must be one of the waves crashing on my wall.

It is difficult to only think about yourself and the girls.

Even shopping, I always consider whether or not I could really buy that or not.

My wife would disapprove or not.

In some ways, it is liberating to not think of her and her disapproval.

I'm going to be 47 this year. I always thought she would be with me until I died.

Yeah, I'm drowning on those waves

It must be rest, I had to work late last night, difficulties with the new office.

I need rest.

I need to calm those waves.

Talk to you guys later.


----------



## dcrim

OITC, hang on, dude! I KNOW it hurts...I know there's always these little thoughts in your mind. 

I have them, too! I try (mostly successfully) to let them go...to think of the next task (thing I have to do). 

Just try to let it go... 

I know it's hard! Call me if you want to...

Don't forget the Jim Beam! It will help...been there, done that.  

It will slow your brain down. It won't help with the situation/problem...but will help you to slow down to consider the options. 

Just don't do the whole bottle in one night! I did that. Wish I hadn't...  But also glad I did.


----------



## tobeamiss

Hang in there Hugh. Keep doing all the right things and good things will come to you. You're doing remarkably well I think. I'm glad you have the kids which keep you busy. How are you doing today?


----------



## outinthecold

Thanks for asking, I'm really good today.

She left for the weekend today to Saturday.

I did not wan to know where she went. She wanted to tell me but I said it's your vacation.

I feel nothing.

I am taking the 16,12,7 year olds up north to their adopted grandfather's house on Lake Michigan.

I'm good
I'm good
I'm good

I'll be starting soon as a volunteer at our local hospital. It should be good to go and meet a new variety of people.

Our office are all full of Architects and Engineers. Kind of a dull group. They have to be for the way they do their jobs.

Not as fun as when I worked for a multi-media company. Lots of fun people.

I'm good
I'm good
I'm good

Thanks again for asking


----------



## Blonddeee

There will be good days and bad days, but soon the good ones will take over and the bad days will be few and far between


----------



## dcrim

OITC, how are you doing? Please let us (or just me) know...


----------



## tobeamiss

It's good to see the rough patch is over. Glad you didn't want to know even though she wanted to tell you. It must bug her that you didn't care. You're supposed to want to know everything right? <wink>


----------



## Dark Angel

I've read your story OITC, and I feel your pain. I flows out in waves with the keystrokes you make. I'm sorry things didn't go as you had hoped, but it gives me courage to see the progress you are making already.

You should be *VERY* proud of yourself.

Do you have any musical talents? You string some pretty intense phrases together. Maybe learn to play the guitar or piano and write music or poetry. It's amazing what a sad song can do for a tortured soul to keep you going. Its even more amazing what a chearful upbeat one can do keep you moving forward.

Hang in there.


----------



## outinthecold

Dark Angel, that is a very nice compliment you gave me.

Sometimes I have a way with words. If I feel it, I bleed it on paper.

If you ever are in trouble let me talk for you.

I have gotten my kids out of so much stuff, not serious trouble, I let them hang but mild stuff, I do have a golden tongue.

Actually, I've been working on several ideas for a book/script.

One of the ways of loving yourself, chase your dreams.

Mine is to make a movie.

I know it is a long shot, a really really long shot but chasing a dream opens up other adventures I have yet seen.

You double hang in there too. I know it is tough, but you do have youth on your side.

Youth is wasted on the young, so old people say. 

I say, youth is exhausted by the young, then you get old.

True Love will return, you have to let it go first. 

Throw a boomerang wrong and it cuts off your fingers, throw a boomerang wrong and it flies away, I play golf so as to wait all day for that one perfect hit.


----------



## Rhea

OITC I picture you in a very "sophisticated" office, cherry desk, green lawyer lamp, rich chocolate brown leather chair...throwing your thoughts onto the comp. Yes, yes you sir do have a way w/words. Congrats on the not letting her tell you where she's going. Glad you're having a better day. Work on that movie script my words for you are...the only dreams lost are those you don't chase. Keep chasing. Better days are coming  Chin up. Good hearing from you.


----------



## Dark Angel

outinthecold said:


> I know it is a long shot, a really really long shot but chasing a dream opens up other adventures I have yet seen.


It's not really a long shot, it all depends on what you want to achieve. Do you want fame and forture? Or do you just want to do it for yourself and be proud of what you created, regardless of what others think.

I try to be a musician. I know I'm a hack, but I dont care. I do it for me, not for anyone else. We sound bad alot of the time, but I dont let it get to me too much, because I had fun doing it.



outinthecold said:


> You double hang in there too. I know it is tough, but you do have youth on your side.


Thanks for that, I really do appreciate it.



outinthecold said:


> Youth is wasted on the young, so old people say.
> 
> I say, youth is exhausted by the young, then you get old.


I agree. There are so many times I loose sight of whats really important. Every once and awhile though, I'll stop and truly open my eyes to whats around me. Tall grass swaying in the wind like waves on the sea, the rustle of summer leaves on the trees, the wispering of the tall pines. The way clouds break apart, only to rejoin again in a new form. I stopped and noticed theses things the other day for the first time in awhile. I just sat there for an eternity and took it all in. It really seems to help when Im sad, and I remembered what amazing beauty there is in this world in the simplest things.

Thanks again.

M


----------



## outinthecold

Rhea, thank you

I am sitting on the carpet in the basement, I've been relegated to the dark corner of the house.

I took the coffee table in the living room and put it in the basement with me.

The computer sits on top of it, I am leaning against the couch squared off with the TV in front of me.

I have no cable, kids were watching it too much so I cut it off. I rent movies to watch on an occasion. 

I watch illegal movies on Watch TV Sitcoms.Com, check it out sometime.

I went to the dunes this weekend up north near Arcadia Michigan. Beautiful place.

Father's day weekend was really nice. My younger kids made me stuff, my second oldest drew a picture of me, WOW was it good, my oldest wanted to take me out for dinner, but we got back too late.

It was good weekend.

The EX called several times, I conveniently forgot to answer the phone.

Wasn't important anyway, she wanted to know about some payment.

I and every guy who gets dumped will be alright.


----------



## dcrim

OITC, I miss you. Hang in/on! I spent the afternoon with my son, g'kids...had fun. 

Why are you in the basement? It's YOUR house!


----------



## outinthecold

I hesitate to tell you all this, but I had two strange dreams Saturday night.

I had Mexican for dinner at a Restaurant called the "Roadhouse" in Benzonia, Michigan

Chili Renos must have bubbled up in the nite.

First dream, my soon to be ex-wife was involved with my old best friend. Holding hands in my dream. WOW, that was killer to wake up to.

Second dream, she was married to Joe "The Plummer" Wetzel, we all lived in the same house and she had silver and black hair.

Whew, what a night, I woke up in cold sweats


----------



## Rhea

OITC sorry buddy...I've been having those types of dreams lately too. Mine either involve the stbx w/someone else or us back together later in life. They ALWAYS wake me up. Every night for the last two weeks. Add that to insomnia and I'm usually a sleep through the night person so having the dreams suck first of all waking me mid slumber in a weird daze sucks even worse...you're not alone.


----------



## dcrim

I don't have dreams like that...but the occasional, fleeting thought...sigh...not my problem now...


----------



## outinthecold

What do you do with all pictures and video?

We have an immense amount of photographs and VHS tapes of our lives together.

I love the ones of the kids. 

They have a feeling of life to them.

The others with my wife and I or of just her.

I look at them, they feel dead. 

An indescribable feeling comes over me. Staring at a stone is the best I can do to describe it.

I wish she would just go. 

I have not seen her for almost six days.

I don't answer the phone when she calls, I just listen to the messages.

Different schedules, went on a nice vacation with the girls.

What would you do with the photos and videos?


----------



## Rhea

Ugh I don't know. Tons of pics...things, cards from over the years, my wedding rings (gorgeous sigh, I just can't get rid of them yet) uhg...I really don't know OITC, I hate thinking of it...finality...blows.


----------



## outinthecold

I thought about just saving it for the girls, after all she is their mother.

They can pack it away somewhere and someday they will want those pictures, videos and stuff.

Yep, I think I will do that.

My memories will be of the girls.

I just don't even want to be in the same town any more.

It will be 11 years before I can move away. My youngest is 7.

I have to wait until she graduates.


----------



## dcrim

OITC, I think the storage idea is a good one.

In my case, though, I threw every single thing out that I didn't give back to her. All pix, mementos...everything. No reminders. 

Of her "stuff", that I'd returned, I even gave back some food. 

I only have one pic of her and it was from my son's wedding and included my brother (xgf husband) too.


----------



## outinthecold

Dave, that is stripped down and lean buddy.


----------



## outinthecold

My emotions seem so played out, like playing an old record over and over again until the needle is worn down and I have no grooves left.

I feel like a flat lp. 

Flightless frisbee.

A coke and a snickers will make me feel something.


----------



## dcrim

Or get you all wired up!  

I haven't deleted the pix from my PC, though...I actually don't have that many of her since she doesn't like being photographed. Mostly at family events. One day I'll get industrious and burn a CD/DVD and remove them.


----------



## Blonddeee

I went through all my pictures and took out any of him and stuck them in a box... maybe someday I'll look at them again, it was a big part of my life so i can't just throw them away, but I really don't want to look at them now.


----------



## Rhea

Yeah if you throw it all out you're throwing out your history...I can't throw mine out, besides mine are all on the comp for the most part. I'll put everything in one box prob when I move that way I don't have to see it all. I have one pic I keep on my night stand...my stbx are still friends (or so I'm told) and we'll be in each other's lives regardless (at least that's what I think now, can't predict tomorrow or 6 months from now) but anyway. I still have some that need to come off the walls though...


----------



## outinthecold

Good ideas, I'll just stick them in a box for the girls.

I did mention that the last two girls were born at home?

Did I?

The littlest one was born in the basement in a large bathtub and the older one was born upstairs on lots of plastic and towels.

Quite an experience. 

We have video of the events. I am conflicted on what to do with these videos. 

I'll probably give them to her. We use to watch them together every year on their birthday. 

Thats past now. 

I wish I could just go home and not see any of her stuff or her for that matter, but mostly I wish she was just stop calling me. She has nothing to say I want to hear anymore.

I'm good folks
I'm Ok

The oldest is taking me out for father's day tonight. Italian, good eats at Carrabas.

-H


----------



## dcrim

Why can't you tke "her" things and put them into storage?


----------



## outinthecold

Yes, Dave I can


----------



## outinthecold

Today is a downer.

It was so very nice yesterday, the girls took me out for dinner , delayed father's day.

We went shopping.

I got home.

I went downstairs to watch Internet TV, then my eldest daughter had to have drama.

Her ex-boyfriend was drinking and became an emotional mess that poured onto my front porch.

Then my soon to be ex-wife had to come down and tell me about it.

I did not look at her, I stared strait ahead the entire time. She was behind me. After the described drama, I asked her how her apartment hunting was going.

She was irritated that I asked.

I need her to go.

I am more ok when it is just me and the girls.

No thought of her enters my mind.


----------



## Rhea

I hope your daughter is ok OITC

Wife needs to go yes

She's irritated? So what. Don't let that get to you. 

This is about you getting better now. If you need her to go then she needs to get to gettin.

Hope your day gets better, remember your kiddos, they're always one reason to smile through the tunnels of hell. Mine keeps me going when I'm hanging on that thin unraveling thread. 

Hugs
Rhea


----------



## tobeamiss

Hi there, I've been away as my mother was visiting from Florida. 
Yes, your stbx really needs to go. Must have felt good when she got annoyed at you asking about her apartment hunting. I still don't understand why you're in the basement. :scratchhead: Maybe it's where you want to be right now because it's far away from her in a sense. 
Apartment hunting can't be that difficult unless you don't have the money to move. That would be the only thing holding her back don't you think? Ask her if that's the problem and then maybe you could help her just to get her out? Then you could truly move on and get your life up and running again. Just a thought.
p.s. you're doing great!


----------



## outinthecold

I have not seen her in six(6) days. I talked to her twice, but I have not actually seen her in six(6) days.

I do not answer the cell phone when she calls, I only listen to the message.

I did not get enough sleep last night, I know it is affecting my emotions today.

I just need her to leave the house.

I'll have to see her tomorrow, my 12 year old is turning 13 and she is having a luau in the back yard.


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## dcrim

OITC, you're doing fine under the circumstances! Next time you see her, ask if you can help her pack!


----------



## outinthecold

Yeah Dave, I would like to help her but I think she would just start blubbering.

I can't be near her when that happens.

She needs to blubber by herself.

I would just start down that rainy road myself.

I would just look weak when that happens.

Don't want to appear weak.

Me STRONG, drag women by hair,   

I can only help myself, I can only be myself, I can only improve on myself.


----------



## Rhea

OITC I must say you've made massive strides since the beginning of this thread. I'm glad to see you're looking out for yourself  and staying healthy and safe.


----------



## outinthecold

Rhea, it is my obsessive nature.

Same thing when I took up golf a few years ago, almost everymale in my office played, I never played, looked too boring.

Some guys at the office invited me to give it a try as a sub on the company golf league.

Well after about a month and three(3) sets of golf clubs later, I was playing everyday almost or practicing, purchased a $250 driver and a $300 dollar putter not to mention my specialty clubs in between. 

I got myself down to a 39 on nine holes within six months of beginning golf. Then I hit a wall, I couldn't get any better. I hovered in the low 40s. Then I quit cold turkey.

I'm hoping my improvements can transcend my obsessive nature. I want true change in who I am.

My soon to be ex-wife asked my daughter the other day, "What do you admire most about your father?", I was sitting in between them, she did not hesitate, she said,"his morals" I am steadfastly black and white on right and wrong. My favorite saying, "Nothing Good Comes From Ill Gotten Gain".

Not the feature in my character I want to change.

I will continue on the path all of you have helped me shape. My obsession for a better me will not end one day but will continue the rest of my life.

That is the future I visualize for myself.

When I make my movie and it is debut night, I will fly each one of you to the premiere weekend and have one hell of a party. 

I love you all and look forward to meeting you one day.


----------



## tobeamiss

I'm wondering why she asked your daughter . . . "What do you admire most about your father?" Was it on Father's Day? anyway, opening night should be a blast =] I can't wait.


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## Rhea

Woot opening night here I come...! :bounce:


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## dcrim

woohoo...opening night! 

Does the movie have blood, gore? Monsters? Ray guns? Scantily clad women?


----------



## LOVETAKESWORK

Dear Outinthecold I apologize for joining this thread so late, but it is my heart to provide some thoughts and a different perspective. Having been in separation with my wife and almost divorced, I do understand much of the heartache your going through. I also have counseled a number of men in your situation over the last 10 years and have to say there is always so much similarity to separation and divorce especially for a couple that has been married as long your wife and you have. I really believe there is a lot of caring people posting on here and they can be very supportive, but please keep in mind it is very easy for the people here to say what you want to hear and seemingly be supportive, as there is no real friendship commitment here, I am not being negative but merely trying to point out although this can be therapeutic it cannot be the beginning or the end of your recovery and or counseling. I appreciate what you said in your opening on May 23, 2009 “My wife left me, I have a thread here about it. Right now I feel like drinking or banging my head on this keyboard until every keys leave an impression on my face. What do I do to alleviate this pain. Obvious reason why she left me, I was selfish, a jerk. 24 years she endured this from me. I never truly realized how much she means to me. My best friend is gone. Those old clichés are really true, you don't realize what you've got until it's gone. Somebody help me, pleeaasseeeee!” This is just a month ago, and now you are ready to move on, pack your “best friend’s” bags and ship her out. Because you hurt, you believe that her being out of sight will make her out of mind unfortunately this is not true. You have a long journey of recovery ahead of you, if you choose wisely and may include the restoration of your marriage and at minimum the growth in your character as a husband and father that will be required for future happiness. I am so truly sorry to bring this all up as it is so contrary to all the positive feedback and think about your self-advice that has been offered to you. I know that stuff is much more pleasant to digest, but sadly it will not help you in the long-term, you asked at the beginning of this thread for “someone to help you” that is what I am trying to do here, I have a very active off-line life and consider my time very important, I am taking time to write you not because I have nothing better to do but because I am compelled by the Love of the God I serve to “love my neighbor as myself” and to answer your call for help. Now with that said, I am not here to convert you, but merely offer you some time tested solid advise. You were speaking the truth when you first started this thread, “I was a selfish jerk” I am confident you were, I am confident because I am a master of being a Jerk and every man I know is as well. It takes a lifetime to grow out of being selfish and to change our motivation from self to others. There is no better love to receive than selfless love and certainly no love worth giving then the same. Maybe your wife is still at home because she is not ready to move on. What your going through is normal and very common, your first thoughts were very close to where you needed to be, but like so many men you choose the road of denial because the thought of the failure of your marriage is somehow your fault is to much to bear, so instead of starting the road to healing and recovery you are on a this road of self justification and false goodness. Just reading your thoughts about your daughter saying “you’re a moral guy, to your wife” shows where you are at “this is what we call the good guy desire” you need to feel like you’re the good guy in this situation, more than likely you have intensified the time you spend with your daughters the last month as you can’t bear the idea that you somehow didn’t spend quality time with them or your wife before this whole thing began. Have you apologized to your wife yet for letting her down during your marriage? Now I don’t mean a half hearted apology that you may have given at the beginning of all this, as that would have been more about you holding on to her than about taking her for granted. That type of apology is similar to a child apologizing when punishment or consequences are expected, they are really not sorry usually they do not comprehend their actions, they really haven’t thought them through they just want to get through the intensity of being caught and possibly avoiding any consequence or punishment. Now please understand where I am going with this, I am not looking to make you feel bad or guilty or add to your suffering, my only desire is that you 1. Accept Responsibility for your actions 2. Truly understand those deep things inside of you that need to change 3. Challenge you to develop a plan of healing for yourself that would pro-actively affect your children’s lives and maybe even your wives. Now I am sure you’re a good guy, but if things don’t change I mean really change in your character, future failure with your daughters and possibly another wife is unavoidable. Although your wife owns her actions and needs to come to terms with her own healing, the real problem is not her but you. Now forgive me for not reading all 13 pages of this thread, I don’t understand why you are not moving out? It is ludicrous to think you’re the parent that should stay with your daughters, if you were putting them first and were truly sorry for what you put your wife through the last 24 years, you would looking for a place to stay yourself and figuring out how your going to keep your daughters and wife together, although daughters need fathers, these especially need mothers. Your kick-started parenting just won’t cut it in the days ahead, I don’t know you personally and forgive me for the assumptions I am taking but you do fit the model of a selfish husband very well, as do most men in your situation. I believe if you truly are going to start feeling right about yourself and feeling good about your actions, you will need to start putting your daughters and wife first. As a matter of fact this change in behavior will send a powerful message to your wife and daughter that you truly do love them, because true love is not about you it is about others. I highly recommend getting some professional counseling and seeking out a mentor for your life, there is nothing like the friendship, counsel and support of an older friend who truly cares about your life getting better. You can usually find a mentor at your place of worship, group of friends, or non-profit organization you might be part of. I also recommend filling your spare time with reading, there are several good books out there on growing and maturing as a husband, father and man. I recently enjoyed Tempered Steel and King Me by Steve Farrar, although King Me is a book for fathers of sons, I found much wisdom and healing in its pages for myself and I know you would too, Raising a Modern Day Knight by Robert Lewis is a good read too, and She Calls Me Daddy by Robert Wolgemuth is a must read for father’s of daughters, Steven Covey’s First Things First and the 8th Habit are exceptional and Gary Smalley has countless works worth your time, if your not a reader get these on Tape of CD, if cost is an issue, by them and resell them on eBay. Your best years can still be ahead of you if you choose to learn from your past and refuse to keep making the same mistakes over and over again. If you happen to be a Christian, The Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren is a great read too. These men are all great men, all married once and all desiring one thing to leave a legacy, choose to leave a legacy of love for those around you, Love is truly the best thing on earth, pursue it, understand it, exercise it till you become good at it strive to master it although you never will your desire will produce great things in your life and everyone’s life around you. Dear Outinthecold, may today be the first day in a new life for you, a life worth living, a life worth having may you no longer be out in the cold, but may you find warmth and security in “Love”. Take Care for now, and be blessed, praying for your success! Lovetakeswork (a/k/a a sinner along the this road we call life totally dependent on God’s Love and Support)


----------



## Rhea

Yikes LTW, I like reading what you write, but you gotta break out in some paragraphs every now and then buddy. Keep posting.


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## tobeamiss

Yes, please use paragraphs every so often. 
Here's my opinion though. I don't just say things to make OITC feel better. I say what I'm thinking. 
Maybe he's not moving out because she's the one leaving the marriage....he didn't ask for this, she did. Maybe I'm wrong but I thought she was the one who wanted to end it all and even decided to be with another man. Then ofcourse changed her mind, thankfully....
He has owned his part in all of this and wanted her to stay but it doesn't seem at this time she even wants to work it out. I think that if she was willing to stay and work it out, this would have been his wake up call to start doing the right thing within the marriage. Alot of men get a wake up call when there wives want to end the marriage and I think he got his. The fact that she's unwilling to work it out has made him bitter and resentful and with this he has gone in to protection mode and has become cold and uncaring in order not to get hurt again. He says that he's tried to talk to her but doesn't get any kind of satisfaction from her that there will be a reconciliation....what else is he to do? Beg her repeatedly to stay? I think he's doing the right thing because it may just give her a wake up call that maybe he is changing from the selfish person he once was. 
I think you *should* read the 13 pages to see that he has tried and is making improvements in his life with not even a hint that his marriage has a chance of surviving. He's improving with or without her. JMO


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## dcrim

I think there may be some gems in LTW's post, but I also strongly agree with the previous 2 posters.


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## outinthecold

WOW There is no clear way of expressing 24 years of life with a very special loving woman to all of you. 

I'm still in love with her, yep I'm still there. 

One, two, three, four months of whatever does not erase what a lifetime took to build. If cells have memory, then each cell I have is filled to capacity of loving moments with my wife. 

But, I have been a big big selfish jerk. I'll tell you how, I gained weight, I ate bad, I have high blood pressure, I have a high pressure job, I'm PAPD, I didn't go to the doctor regularly, I didn't have my blood tested once a year, I didn't regularly exercise, I was mean, I didn't hear her, I didn't listen to her etc. etc. etc. 

Come right down to it, I scared her into thinking I was going to die and leave her alone. 

In some ways, she is protecting herself by not caring. I might as well be an alcoholic or an addict on a self-destructive path to oblivion. 

The bad part, there is no way back. 

I can't make her love me. 

I can only go forward. 

The key for me is still that phrase Blonddeee wrote. 

I repeat it to myself often. 

Also a friend said, just accept it, don't force it, try and go with it, it will fall together in time. 

Just like sometimes I put together something that requires assembly. Everybody's done one. Sometimes it goes great, sometimes you force it, wow then you have to undo undo undo undo, then redo redo.

I heed your advice, it is going to be a long road to recovery, no way to shorten it. Right now I’m grasping at every life line thrown my way. I’m holding onto all of them.

I also know, being in the same house with her only reminds me of where we use to be. Her scent when she passes me, her clothes in the washer, her voice in the distance. If she were not there, I think it would be easier to move on, but the other side of me says hold on to every bit you can because when she leaves so will everything you once loved.

So you see my predicament, life’s a two side coin.

Every decision I have made with her seems to be the wrong one.

I do carry in my mind, all the well wishers, the friends, criticisms, the love, the caring, the advice of everyone everyday. 

I will carry with me your advice as well.


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## outinthecold

Next time LOVETAKESWORK, use some paragraphs


----------



## Dark Angel

Hi OITC.

Is she draggin her heals on the apartment? Sounds more and more like her thoughts are muddled. I think you do have to get her out if her presence bothers you that much. I totally understand why.

Start there and see where life takes you.

LTW - I think he made it perfectly clear that he was willing to anything to have even a chance of getting your wife back. If she didnt want to play ball, then what is he suppose to do about it? He cant force her to work it out. She made the choice not to, and may have to live with that. I wouldnt say its 100% for sure DOA, but she may have to spend some time away from him to see if this is really what she wants.

Whether OITC wants to try again if that were to happen, thats his choice.

I dont want to see anyone walk away either if theres a glimmer of hope. Being in limbo like that can drive you over the edge though. You cant stand still for too long or you might be waiting in vain for a long long time, and thats something we never really know how much we have left. I'd do (almost) anything to get my wife back right now, but its up to her in the end. When I see her I am overjoyed and absolutely devastated at the same moment. It takes it toll. It breaks to you down and leaves you feeling empty.


----------



## outinthecold

She is leaving tonight.

I am probably going to be right back at "It hurts soooooo bad" in a little bit.

She has been waiting on a possible job opportunity as a manager/resident of an apartment building. Free rent.

We were talking about her staying until this panned out but she had to throw some more crap about pursuing a relationship with whoever.

So I said she had to leave right now.

No sense in waiting.

It was all so cold.

My hope is all gone, I'm gonna cry for a while now.

It is terrible being in the basement all by yourself.

It does hurt so bad.


----------



## outinthecold

I'm all cried out now.

The reality of paying bills.

I'm going to have a small drink.

Keep my mind from racing like Dave said.


----------



## outinthecold

I am hungry, I didn't eat any dinner, I'm going to get something to eat.

I got this really good apple soda at an international market. I'm going to have some with my sandwich.

I'm just trying to keep my mind switched off.


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## Dark Angel

Hang in there man.

It is going to get worse when it finally happens. It's inevitable. It's like closing a book. the final chapter is told, and thats it.

Its going to hurt, but I think it has to happen before it gets better. You *will* build yourself back up again, and you will be free.

Let it out, dont hold it back.

You did the right thing. She cant have power over you anymore. Its hard to say how she might feel once shes all alone for awhile. Let the book close, but it can be re-opened at anytime if you both desire.

Time to start a new book. Your new life,OTIC ver 2.0
Make the most of it, hash out the storyline for that movie.

You're not alone down there. I know its not the same, but we'er with you.

Sleep well my friend, you need it.

M.


----------



## outinthecold

Dark, you see things as I see things.

I suppose sometime down the line, I will not want to try anymore.

Where that fork in the road is I just don't know.

Right now, I'm trying to save my family.

My beautiful family.

I can hear the kids outside, their laughter is oh so sweet.

As you said, I'm willing to do anything.

I am desperately desperate.

When the woman you love looks at you with stone black eyes and says, "Don't come near me"

What am I to do?

I have to start somewhere to recover.

She has to leave me be.


----------



## Dark Angel

I understand.

My wife has ice blue eyes that can burn right through anyones soul when she wishes. It hurts even more to think of them when they are happy and alive.

My 5yr old son still begs me to come back. He tells me he wishes that she was the one who wasnt there. Its probably for the wrong reasons, but it hurts.

My 2yr old tells me with his soother filled marble mouth "Daddy you come home!" everytime I visit.

I almost tear myself apart everytime this happens.

I guess you really cant give up till *you* are ready, despite what anyone else says. Even if its believing in hopeless cause it doesnt matter. Some of us just cant harden our hearts to others so easily. Im in that place right now to. Its dark down here, and lonely.


----------



## dcrim

Hang in there, OITC. Like Dark said...this book is closing. There's no more joy to be had from it, hence the sadness. 

I know it feels more lonely now, but also you can begin to get over it.


----------



## outinthecold

Dave, metaphorically, I can see it.

In real life, I feel like a drag queen at couture week.

Nothing fits, 

Nothing feels right,

Nothing looks good on me,

I made it thru last night.

She kept saying, "I have no where to go", it didn't feel right to force her to leave.

I made an emotional decision based on what she said. 

Someone said earlier in this thread, making decisions while emotionally involved is always a bad decision.

Yes it is.

Reflecting on it today, I have to let her go and/or rather I have to get her to go.


----------



## outinthecold

I'm at work

I'm in a fog

I'm breathing deep

I'm about to take the keyboard and break it over my head


----------



## dcrim

I know, OITC. 

I was the same when I returned to work after I found out xgf married (and my 3 day binge  ). 

Fortunately tech support kept my mind somewhat busy most of the day.

On the plus side, you could see this coming (I was blindsided), you can begin to get used to the idea of life without her. On the down side, there is life without her, but you still have the kids. 

Just hang on.


----------



## outinthecold

Dave, honesty is best, but blind-sided is tough.


----------



## outinthecold

She said she wants to pursue this relationship.

An emotional bond with the "other".

From her words, they seem to say the relationship is almost a non-starter. I've said she must tell the girls just in case they ever run into her or the girl's friends run into her. Her response, "Are they going to see me talking on the phone?"

Everyone here knows how difficult it is to find someone, too tall, too short, tooooooooooooo insert answer here >> _ _ _ _ _, let alone in the middle of two crisis es.

From her words, I say there are issues yet to be resolved and a relationship yet to start.

I still care for her, no more hurt needs to be spread around. There has been plenty already.


----------



## outinthecold

Thanks Dave, that little boost sure did get me going. I have problems to solve and people to lead.


----------



## dcrim

OITC, just in case...

She may well find that the grass is not greener. If/when she does learn this...she may want to return to her fallback plan. YOU! Do NOT let her!

If you do want her back when she says she wants back...make HER date YOU and rekindle the relationship. And she stays at her own place. 

And no sex until you both decide to make another go of it. And before there is sex, she must get tested (for your health and peace of mind). 

Anent the boost...you're welcome, of course!


----------



## Rhea

*If you do want her back when she says she wants back...make HER date YOU and rekindle the relationship. And she stays at her own place. * :iagree:

OITC your way w/words still amazes me man, you should write a book then turn that book into a movie. I'm sorry you're in so much pain. Keep talking and posting, I can and do feel your pain as many other's do here. Wow...

Hugs
Rhea


----------



## tobeamiss

She has no where to go? Isn't that too bad. Doesn't the other guy have an apartment? I know it hurts to think of it but I think she should go and see how green the grass really isn't on the other side. How dare she even talk to you about the other guy and an emotional bond with him...and then cries "I have no where to go" oh boo hoo.
I think she has alot of growing up (some call it growing) to do and I agree about her dating you and rekindling the relationship if she ever wants back in. That is if you ever let her because you would really want to be sure next time around...
What on earth is she afraid of? Just go already. I would be totally pi**ed at this point if I were you. If my husband were pulling this crap, it wouldn't last very long. 
She knows at this point that she has you wrapped around her little finger and she's using you until she can make it on her own. ugh!!!


----------



## outinthecold

It sure does seem that way doesn't it.

Wrapped around her finger.

Did I tell you she took her ring off a while ago.

I took my mine off, she said it would be a freeing feeling.

It's not, there is still an everlasting impression on my skin.

In India, they train elephants when they are little with a cuff around their leg, as they get older they continue to cuff the elephant and leave them tied to a tree. Sometime when they reach adolescence, they remove the cuff, the elephant remains next to the tree. They do not try and escape for the elephant never looses that sense he's trapped.

So as me and my ring finger.

Rhea and ToBeAMiss

I appreciate how you are both in harmony with your remarks. Must be we are all like minded people only separated by electrons.

I have to control something. 

The kids are adjusting well, she was not there all that much anyway, work and school. 

It really affects the little one, I know she misses her, she's 7. 

A friend of mine asked her the other day, "So, how's your mommy", she replied, "Don't know, she's not around much". He looked at me with very sad eyes and gave me a long shoulder hug.

I'm doing better now, solved some serious problems at work.

As for getting back together, only forward is the way now.

I know very little about her, she is a stranger to me. Some things seem familiar, like you meet somebody that reminds you of someone else, she is that now.

I start my volunteer job at the hospital in a few weeks. My journey.

I'm also thinking of going to "Burning Man" The Burning Man Project :: Welcome Home

Anyone want to join me there?


----------



## tobeamiss

Burning man sounds awsome. I would definitely go if I lived closer. I haven't read up on the whole thing but it sounds nice and laid back....anything goes, so to speak. Love it.
I'm glad you're going. You'll have a great time I'm sure. will you go alone or with the kids?


----------



## outinthecold

She is moving out on Monday

Just down the street

We have apartments and duplexes near us

She took the two younger kids down to see the apartment

They seem ok

The little one wanted to visit often when she moves

A good sign


----------



## outinthecold

My wife always wanted us to be best friends, weird we have to get a divorce to become friends


----------



## outinthecold

I felt good today, I know why

She was here all day

We talked

We hugged for a little bit because she was upset

I was able to take in her essence

Now she went shopping with the little girls

I miss her again

What next?

What should I do?

Where should I go?

My feelings are so interrupted

I'm lost


----------



## dcrim

I just tried to call you... got voice mail...left a message...

OITC, hang on, dude! I know it's rough. your stbx wants her quality time with the girls. Let her. It will soon be you and them... sigh...


----------



## outinthecold

Sorry Dave, I was out.

Well, tomorrow is the big day, she is signing the lease and moving on Thursday.

I know it is for the best.

I'm all cried out.

Tomorrow will be a new day.


----------



## tobeamiss

It would be hard for me if my husband only moved down the street. I would find myself looking all the time when I drove by. The curiosity would kill me. I think it's good that their mom is so close though. It'll be good for them. Is it walking distance?


----------



## outinthecold

It will be good to have her close. 

For the kids sake, not for mine.

Taking a truthful look at her yields varying results, scientifically.

Emotionally she looks the same.

Truthfully, she looks very different.

I obviously have filters over my eyes sometimes but other times she takes on a fresh/old look.

For example, yesterday she looked beautiful, had a mini skirt on, slight cleavage showing to go to a nephew's graduation.

Today she looks her age, she looks different than my rose colored glasses can see her with.


----------



## outinthecold

Also confusing, 

So she goes to the nephew's graduation, 

She calls me twice, once to have her sister tell me about the niece's engagement.

Second, she calls me while I'm at the local sports bar watching an exciting USA vs Brazil soccer match, to ask me what I'm doing. I tell her, she wants me to have a drink instead of having pop (pop is bad for you), she tells me about the graduation party, she asks about my doctor's visit and my blood test then she talks a little bit of about family we say good-bye.

I don't know what to make of this,

Then she comes home and re-caps the party for me. This is her family.

I'm confused, am I getting mixed signals?

Maybe she does this out of courtesy, I don't know,

I'm confused?


----------



## dcrim

Tobeamiss, I drive past my xgf's shop every day...it's only a quarter mile from my apartment. I make a point of not turning my head! I've seen her twice going in opposite directions on the road (well a 3rd time but she had just arrived and was gathering up stuff before getting out of her car). I made sure I didn't turn my head...but did follow her with my eyes.  I mentioned it in my dumped thread. 

OITC, I think maybe she's beginning to realize what she's going to be missing/giving up. Possibly keeping her fallback options open. I'm not suggesting that you cut her off or be cruel..but remind her she told you all of this already. 

BTW, once she's out, change your locks! After she's out, she will have to ask you to re-enter the home.


----------



## outinthecold

A misconstrued phrase I once said to her,

she thought I said, "You will never be able to find someone better than me",

what I actually said, "You will never find someone to love you as much as I love you".

There is a big difference between phrases, don't you think?

Over time, I hope I can begin to describe something different than pain and somehow, it will start falling together the right way.


----------



## dcrim

The pain will diminish in time. You won't ever forget.

Once she's moved out you can really begin to heal. It will happen. 

I didn't know how long I would hurt, but knew that I would and that I would get over it. 

Oddly enough, it only took me 3 months from being dumped, two from finding the wedding pix after a 3.5 year relationship. That's not as long as yours, I know.


----------



## outinthecold

Dave, today I'm really tired.

Last night, I was totally alone in the basement, I had to watch TV to keep myself company while I fell asleep.

The little one has been sleeping in her tent built for one on the couch in the basement with me. The tent just fits lengthwise on the couch.

My little one would rustle around in the tent and I felt like someone was with me, not so quite alone.

The basement is fully finished so we're not on concrete or anything like that.

She is with her grandmother until Wednesday.

I know it sounds so pitiful depending on your littlest daughter for companionship.

I'm reduced to hiding behind the couches in the basement and crying, I don't want the kids to see me.

Not good to see their old man so emotional.

It comes and goes.

I feel like I'm going to have hot-flashes next.

Anybody see, "about a boy"?

The crazy mom, I'm right there with her, except for the dramatic suicide scene, I'll never be there.

Too many kids to take care of.


----------



## Rhea

*I know it sounds so pitiful depending on your littlest daughter for companionship.*

My daughter and my dog keep me company...I guess I'm pitiful too...but really kids are blessings they are a true vision of unbiased unconditionall love kinda of untouched per sey...and dogs well they always love you 

It's not the companionship we're looking for at the moment OITC but it's companionship none the less...

Well I'm rambling..but I know exactly how you feel.


----------



## outinthecold

I said I know my deep sadness is related to sleep.

It most definitely is.

I had an epiphany yesterday, well more of a realization.

I had a great evening, my 3rd daughter turned 13 we spent the evening shopping, dinner and home with two videos.

Marvelous evening,

At the beginning I was sad, but my realization came while I was waiting on a bench while she was in the fitting room.

"My next 25 years is going to be what my dreams are made of"

It was as though someone pumped the sadness from me and filled me up with zing.

I've been zingy ever since yesterday evening.

I have to admit, it comes and goes.

Well I'm zingy now, I'm hold on to this feeling as long as I can.


----------



## dcrim

Well, that sounds a lot more positive!


----------



## tobeamiss

dcrim, it's hard though, isn't it? That was my point...I wouldn't want to live so close. 

2 more days and she moves out? You need to be in your bed! And the little one in her bed. 
I hope she's not yanking you around and decides that she's not taking the apartment.....you need some kind of normalcy now.
<sigh>


----------



## outinthecold

I know she signed the lease today,

I'll be fine,

I just need rest,

Thursday is my once a week soccer match,

I won't be home while she moves out.

She will do a lot of crying I know,

So will the kids.

The house will be mine to do whatever with.


----------



## outinthecold

As far as being close, it will really be a benefit for the girls.

I can send them down there when I need a break.

Not having to drive is important for the little one.

I go the opposite way to work.

On my way back, I turn short of the apartment and go right.


----------



## outinthecold

I have no idea how this is going to play out.

My future is by myself and whoever I meet along the way.

I've started down a good road with lots of supportive people.

I'll just keep going.


----------



## dcrim

OITC, yeah, get back into your own bed. Glad you're going to be out while she's moving! 

Tobeamiss, driving past doesn't bother me any more. I just don't look. I can't move and I'm over her so why sweat it...


----------



## DeniseK

I cut the pictures of me and my first hubby. I kept my half and threw his half away. Later...I looked back at them and something was missing..oh yeah...HIM. It's weird how it doesn'thurt like it did. I wish I had him back in the photos so I could remember the good times. ....Know why.....that was part of my life. No matter what he did.....he was part of my life. It has been 14 years since our divorce was final....and I prayed....and the feelings I had for him just vanished. I wonder who that person was that could love someone so abusive....so mean.
We talked on the phone when our son was 12....eight long years after he had signed away his parental rights. He finally appologized for all he had done to me....cited himself the entire blame and whole heartedly told me that I was a wonderful person... and this came after our son refused to see him ever again. There was pain...there was healing....and then after all of those years...I forgave him...right there. It was over....I had grown. There were no more feelings left of hurt or resentment. He was a ghost to me. I still dream of him....and sometimes it is good and sometimes it is horror. 
Keep your memories in storage....one day it won't hurt so much.


----------



## outinthecold

My hurt feelings are towards what was, 

The relationship, 

The friendship, 

The conversations,

The love encased lusty looks,

Her hair,

Her crooked toes,

Her big butt,

Her scars, 

How she says my name,

She is a wonderful human being,

She loves the girls, 

She's the best mom,

She just doesn't love me anymore.

Nothing I can do,

Nothing I can buy,

Nothing I can write, 

No one to call.

I'm gonna miss her deeply.


----------



## outinthecold

I did it all to myself


----------



## voivod

"how she says my name...."

holy ****. you nailed it. so poetically. i'm sitting here begging her to come back to you. ****, that hurts.


----------



## outinthecold

She left,


----------



## tobeamiss

what do you mean she left? She didn't wait until Thursday?


----------



## Rhea

OITC,
What happened? Talk to us. 
Rhea


----------



## outinthecold

She left last night,

She moved into the apartment,

She stayed there for about two hours crying (she told me),

We hugged before she took the kids over to have a look.

It was a warm hug, I told her it would be ok, and that I would be ok, she said, "I know you will be".

I asked if she wanted a house warming present, microwave etc.

She said, "Stop It"

I asked if she wanted me to get a bicycle for her, she said, "I'm getting one"

It was all so friendly, like a roommate moving out.

The 2nd oldest would not go over.

She stayed there last night.

I hear from txt messages today from the girls, she is at home packing more stuff.

I missed her terribly last night, again not enough rest.

I know there is way more to this decision from her than she is aware of.

There is me, all the crappy things I did over the years,

There is her, midlife crisis, identity, fear, maybe some amount of new found connection/friendship.

All of these things I hope she will sort out for herself.

I'm still the one person in her life that cares for her more than anyone else on this earth and knowing myself, I will continue to be that person.

It won't matter her circumstances, I will be there for her.

It sounds schmucky, but hay I'm a lobster and she is my lobster.

She is more than someone I once did something with like Dr. Phil says it will be like.


----------



## outinthecold

I will be able to heal from the hurt, 

but, 24 years of love will never disappear from my heart.


----------



## voivod

you are so eloquent outinthecold. how the **** did it get to this point? did you not express yourself with her?

if she cried for two hours by herself, where were you? this doesn't have to end like this! it doesn't have to end at all!


----------



## outinthecold

I'm even better in person

Some examples:

I've charmed my children's teachers into going from a zero to an A for my kids, sometimes even after the marking period ended.

I charmed the librarian from my daughter's school into signing a release for the registrar at her old high school for my daughter's grades even though my oldest had a bill of $550 for un-returned school books (she eventually paid the bill). She needed this due to her NCAA status as rower for Michigan State U.

Although, I have never had any luck with police people.

Yes, I am very good with pen and tongue.

To explain, my wife feels I'm broken.

I need to fix myself, she can't/won't wait around for this to happen.

In short, I'm passive-aggressive, selfish, incompatible, mean, un-healthy and the list goes on.

I'm working on all of these things, but it ain't happening overnight.

I believe BLONDDEEE quoted it just right,

"I believe that everything happens for a reason. People change so that you can learn to let go, things go wrong so that you learn to appreciate them when they're right. You believe lies so you eventually learn to trust no one but yourself...and sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together"

VOIVOD - the destiny of our lives has to play out. 

She may not be the one, she may not be forever, but there is always a chance she is "True Love" and we will meet again when BETTER THINGS FALL TOGETHER and I CAN APPRECIATE THEM WHEN THEY'RE RIGHT.

Until then or when or never or someone, I'm working on myself.

I'm helping others,
I'm being a good friend,
I'm exercising,
I'm loving my kids,
I'm practicing self-love,
I'm chasing my dreams.

It is all I can do.


----------



## outinthecold

voivod said:


> you are so eloquent outinthecold. how the **** did it get to this point? did you not express yourself with her?
> 
> if she cried for two hours by herself, where were you? this doesn't have to end like this! it doesn't have to end at all!


Sorry VOIVOID, I did not answer you, I was at home, she was at the apartment, she told me afterwards.

VOIVOID, do not fret my friend, it is NOT the end, but the beginning of something different.


----------



## Rhea

*but there is always a chance she is "True Love" and we will meet again when BETTER THINGS FALL TOGETHER *


This is my theory on my ex and I...oh how I miss him but this is how we must be at the moment.

OITC it's always a pleasure to read your "scripture"

Hugs and thoughts
Rhea


----------



## dcrim

OITC...she moved early? Well that's one less thing you have to worry about. 

She cried? Well, she's beginning to realize what she's throwing away. 

She won't wait for you to fix yourself? Well, take whatever time you need and go on...I know 24 years isn't discarded over night...and I know you will need time to "fix" yourself. 

The love will take time...you will never forget...but it WILL become tolerable. 

I only have 4 years in my relationship but now I'm better off. I don't feel a need to "change" anything...but I understand things much better. 

I can't say it will take this many days, weeks, months...only that it will happen. I DO know it's a horrible hurt. 

Try a little of brother Jim (Bean). Not much...just a finger or two to calm down. To stop your mind long enough to sleep a bit (after kids are in bed!). Not every day, either. 

Of course, here I am at 0200!  But not about "her"...I just woke up and wanted to see what's going on. sigh... I know, no life for me.  Like my DIL says (re my: forums, emails, tv replies to "what's going on?") exciting life, huh?


----------



## outinthecold

Dave, remember all my posts about working on yourself? 

A light will come from within you if you work on yourself.

Learn to love yourself and the world will love you.

Give of yourself to others without expecting anything.

Volunteer your time, help someone learn to read, be an adult mentor to a child, the list is endless of what you can give of yourself.

If you concentrate on giving, your troubles will disappear.

I'm going down this track.

Give it a try, it can't hurt.


----------



## Heidiw

Outinthecold-
I am going thru my separation today!! I am packing up things for our daughter & myself to go stay with family while he is trying to figure out what he wants. My thread is also on here. I know its hard to have to either have your spouse or the other way around. 

I love my husband very much but I have to give him his space as well as myself. Our problem is that when we spoke we didn't communicate enough to really get the other persons attention. The other is money on his end. He never knew where his paychecks were going even though I showed him & told him. I was even willing to let him take over paying all the bills but he kept forgetting things & I didn't want him to forget about a bill or think he paid something when he didn't. Plus he was extrememly stressed all the time so that would've added to it.

From my end it was that he wasn't listening or involved with our family. The computer took over his life & he barely acknowledged us. Sex life was going down the toilet & I felt like when I came home from work that I was still alone even though he was in the same room as me. The one who suffered the most is our daughter. She doesn't believe her dad loves her or even likes her. Apparently since she has been home from school he ignored her most of the time. While other parents were taking their kids to the park, pool, bowling, or movies my husband just told my daughter to go scooter or watch tv. She already has a weight issue & telling her to go watch tv on a nice day is not the smartest thing to do.

We didn't truly communicate until the decision was made that I would move out. Now we are back to sqaure one with just being friends. I thought he would be ok with that but it seems he has more feelings for me then what he thought. So now I am putting things in the car & putting the most important things away. I left one picture out in plain view & that was of the 3 of us the day after our daughter was born. We had the biggest smiles on our faces & I want him to remember that day.

Lines of communication will remain open as well. He now has to pursue me as I am not going to do it. If he doesn't want me then I don't want to have the attachment emotionally.

Give her time & space. If she chooses to come back then she will. You need to take a deep breath & fill your time with things that will get your mind off the current situation. Drinking & banging your head against a keyboard won't help just make it worse.

It will get better & whatever happens happens for a reason. You can do this you just have to believe you can.


----------



## outinthecold

Every time I get back on this site, I'm so filled with support and loving thoughts from everyone.

It helps so much.

My everyday thoughts and feelings.

We went to the Friend of the Court the other day. This is the child support portion that the state helps negotiate terms for the final divorce.

The lawyer that handles the case said he can tell how it is going to go within one second of the couples entering the room.

So he said, you two are probably going to do whatever you want right?, without any regards for what's on the paper. We said yes, holding hands stating, "we're lousy spouses but the greatest parents". He gave us Opt Out Papers, to push Friend of the Court out of our lives. He also approved the application for us to skip Friend of the Court.

Afterwards, my wife and I talked for a very long time outside her car. At first it was cold, she talked with her arms folded. She said, "You look like you're going to hug me".

Then we talked some more, then some more, then she sat in the driver's seat.

As I was about to leave, I reached out my left hand as to slap a low five on her hand. She grasped my hand hard, she pulled me down, she began to cry.

I gushed out in tears, I held her arm with my right hand not letting go of her hand. 

I said, "maybe someday we get another chance, I'll fix myself, you fix yourself, I'm still the person that cares for you the most in the whole world"

She said, "I too for you but, you can't hang on". I said, "I'm not, I'm working on myself to fix myself, I have to let you go".

We cried a little bit more, I closed the door to her car and said, "I'll see you later".

She drove off.

She's packing our room right now.

I'm not sad, I'm ready for my future, where ever that takes me.

My next 25 years are going to be grand.


----------



## dcrim

OITC, I remember them. 

That she cried means she knows what she's losing. That you are going on is a good thing. I know 24 years can't be given up overnight. But you will heal...I promise! 

You still have my number if you need to talk. We're here for each other, Hugh.


----------



## outinthecold

Thanks Dave


----------



## dcrim

Spend a little time with brother Jim...just to slow down a little and relax and sleep. Me and capt. Morgan are GOOODDDD friends!  But we don't spend THAT much time together.


----------



## dcrim

I know it's late...but go to wally world and get the Jeff Dunham DVDs. Watch them! He hilarious!! It will take your mind off of life...for a while. A little JB while watching wouldn't be a bad thing either.  Do it!


----------



## outinthecold

Just when you think you have the best worst problem in the world, your best friend tells you he is falling out of love with his wife.

She is a gorgeous woman, voluptuous in every way. Loves him like there is no tomorrow. 

She is 43, married two(2) short years, the problem is babies. 

She can conceive, but can't carry to term.

My friend suffers from a disease called "Affluenza"

Yes, it seems to be real disease, 

People afflicted with Affluenza look at the next best thing as a cure for their want. 

Getting married, next thing, having babies, next thing.

Can't have babies, gotta move on.

A real affliction, he is seeing a counselor but I don't know if it can be worked out.


----------



## outinthecold

Dave, vodka and gin seem to work better for me. 

No real taste, can put/hide it in just about anything.


----------



## outinthecold

I'm back in our/my old room.

She moved almost all of her stuff out.

The closets are empty.

I'm in my old king bed, she got a new twin bed for her apartment.

I got real sleep last night.

I was ok this morning. 

No sorrow.

My 13 year old daughter cried a bit last night, after my wife left with the little one for a sleepover, I told her she has to let it out whenever she feels it.

No bottling it up, it will only come out later.


----------



## dcrim

OITC...not good for your friend...but you can each be there for each other. 

LOL, vodka & gin...ok as long as you can relax a little. Just don't do the whole bottle at once!  

I feel for your 13yo...I know it's rough and will be for a while. I hate to say it, but we all get used to the status quo. In time, it will be dereguaire (sic). 

It seems you're doing better. Just hang in there. It won't be overnight...but it will happen.


----------



## outinthecold

The gravity of what has happened, I've been with my wife more than I was alive before I met her.

Yeah

Now she's gone.

A piece of my everyday thought processes is no longer there.

Gulp ...

It is strange to think alone.

Every decision is just mine.

Every consequence is mine alone.

I'm making noodles tonight, only the girls will be there for dinner.

Gulp ...

Ahhhhhhhh

I gave up drinking Coca-Cola, but I think I'm going to have some tonight.


----------



## dcrim

If you don't drink sodas often, go have one. 

I'm diabetic and the doctor told me those were empty calories. 

Plus my body wants to flush out the sugars and so I drink 3-4 times that much in water. Then have to "go" like a race horse!  

So I drink diet sodas now (Mtn Dew & Dr. pepper, sometimes sunkist). 

I know there's a disparity of time frames. I was married for 20 years when we separated. Someone told me it was a 20 year mistake...but we had 3 beautiful children. And now I have 5 grandkids (with another on the way). BTW ex died last January. 

But the girls are THERE. Hold on to that.


----------



## outinthecold

Today is yet again another day.

No sorrow today

It seems like a long time ago this happened.

Maybe I'm at numb

Could be


----------



## outinthecold

I bought my 16 year a Geo Metro for $500, she found it on craig's list. 

It's a beauty.

I'm glad I can just make a decision like that on my own.

Everything my wife talks about now is about money.

She is definitely living below what she was accustomed to.

I've volunteered furniture (so I can get some new couches), stuff from the house, table and chairs for her dining room, house warming gift etc. 

She has not taken me up on my offer.


----------



## outinthecold

Everybody is calling me.

My mother is calling me asking where my sister is, 
yes make a joke out of it, 
she actually said, "Do you think she got drunk and died?"

My soon to be ex-wife calling me, 
The 13 year old is being difficult about getting up, cleaning her room, 
in all probably lacking some respect for the mom.

My oldest, 
can't find her cell phone, 
disconnect the phone,
lost the phone at Rothberry,
thank goodness she came back in one piece.

Uuuuhhhh

I have to lead the family,
I some strength from somewhere,


----------



## dcrim

Hang on, Hugh. It called life. Sometimes it sucks. Other times...well, it sucks differently.  

But it WILL get better as you heal and develop your own life! I promise. Probably longer than it took me...but it will happen! 

Don't fret the small stuff...lost cell phone? Well, time to upgrade anyway!  You only lose the address book...but if it was saved online, you (she) can get it back.


----------



## Rhea

outinthecold said:


> I bought my 16 year a Geo Metro for $500, she found it on craig's list.
> 
> It's a beauty.
> 
> I'm glad I can just make a decision like that on my own.
> 
> Everything my wife talks about now is about money.
> 
> She is definitely living below what she was accustomed to.
> 
> I've volunteered furniture (so I can get some new couches), stuff from the house, table and chairs for her dining room, house warming gift etc.
> 
> She has not taken me up on my offer.


I pimped a Geo Metro in HS baby blue 3 cylinder that baby took $7 to fill up and it got 56MPG 

We owned two actually lol. Our drive way was a trip...it contained a 68 Camaro SS, a purple Volvo station wagon (my mom loves wagons all the hauling capacity of a truck she says while still being able to hold your family and our family LOVES Volvo well that is until Ford bought them or w/e) and TWO Metros the baby blue automatic and another purply blue 4 door (watch out  ) that some kid had owned before my daddy and it had little music notes stickers on each side...oh and it was a stick lol....:rofl: not that that did much for it's power...I used to have to turn the ac off in the metro at traffic lights and get up to at least 45MPH before turning it back on...but they're good little cars, they serve the purpose and they're cheap on gas 

Ok just a little tale to divert you for a moment...done now

HUGS
Rhea


----------



## outinthecold

Thanks

Life does give you little diversions.

Yep, my daughter loves that car, just taking her a bit of time to get use to a 5 speed stick.

I'm going to treat myself to some good lunch food today.


----------



## Rhea

outinthecold said:


> Thanks
> 
> Life does give you little diversions.
> 
> Yep, my daughter loves that car, just taking her a bit of time to get use to a 5 speed stick.
> 
> I'm going to treat myself to some good lunch food today.


Mmm good food. Do you have Chipotle or Panera Bread Co. there? If so go to one of those  Get a good 1000 calorie burrito or a good sammy and salad from Paner. Yum. I'm hungry now.


----------



## voivod

outinthecold said:


> Thanks
> 
> Life does give you little diversions.
> 
> Yep, my daughter loves that car, just taking her a bit of time to get use to a 5 speed stick.


i sell cars. i'd love to have a nice, clean geo metro on the lot. i'd sell one every day.

wana fun/bond with daughter. just sit in the passenger seat and reassure her that she's doing fine with the clutch. she'll love you forever. even more.


----------



## Rhea

Hah...my Daddy would probably laugh his arse off trying to teach me stick....we'd be a riot!


----------



## tobeamiss

I tried to teach my daughter stick. Well finally as we got back to the house, she said "ok Mom, you can get out now" I said "but" and she said "no, just get out now" LOL and she took off ...brat.
I guess it wasn't working out .... my teaching her and all....


----------



## outinthecold

My 16 year old is a peach, star of the soccer team, leader of her friends.

My steadfast supporter, she talks to me more than ever now. 

I think, I don't know for sure, but I think she thinks I need her support.

She ignores her mother, not even civil to her.

I'll have to talk to her about that.


----------



## dcrim

OITC, the best person I can talk to is my daughter. She's almost 26 (in a couple of months), but we txt or talk every day. Hang on to that, but don't over burden her just yet.


----------



## outinthecold

Just to clarify, I think she thinks she should give me support and ignore her mother.

Twister

She and her mother talked.

I think they are getting along better now.


----------



## outinthecold

Interesting how people's feelings work like magnets.

You find someone you like, you are attracted like two opposite poles.

The closer you get the more attracted you are to each other.

The attraction is always there, but the further you get away the weaker it becomes.

But it is still there,

My wife, even though only 150' down the road, is still an attractant but the signal is becoming week.


----------



## outinthecold

Sometimes talking to women is like the digital switch.

Women switched to digital and I'm stuck on analog.

Can't seem to receive the signal.


----------



## dcrim

LOL I like the digital idea while stuck in analog mode!  

It's called the inverse square law. Moving twice any given distance reduces the signal to 1/4th. 3 times the distance to 1/9th. etc. So the further she gets, the weaker the "signal"

How are you doing? Your posts seem to be getting better.


----------



## outinthecold

she cried again on the phone yesterday, 

she was talking about how my 2nd ( she's 16) oldest is being rude to her, 

she doesn't say hello, doesn't acknowledge her, doesn't etc.

she rambled on, I said, or I believe I said, "I'll talk to her about it",

she says I didn't, and then proceeded to tell me, "I'll always come to your aid with the children, I'll always defend you with the children"

so idyllic is her world,

the crying, my friends and my office wife tell me it is due to guilt,

??????? true or false


----------



## Dark Angel

Most likely it is guilt.

Shes not ready to share that with you yet though. She may never be.

Its great to see your confidence is slowly building again. Try not to let her confusion and confusing statements tear you down anymore. She will eventually make a decision and stick with it.

Sounds like things are a little foggy in her head.


----------



## outinthecold

I think I have moved beyond numb,

I know it seems fast looking back at my posts,

I have no feelings,

I had a long talk with my friend the financial guy, his wife is an academic, a tenured professor of accounting, she goes to bed at 7 or 8 everyday, gets up at 4:30 to run and workout, 

she could care less if he is there or not, they have relations,

he has weighed everything against the divorce or not divorce question, but the key is their two children 8 and 11.

no matter how he calculates this (being a financial guy) there is no room for divorce, no matter how boring or seemingly mundane his life is with his wife (11 years married).

He said to me, "Your wife is making a mistake, because what is the possibility of finding your dream love in the town you live in??"

Understand he's an analyst and analyzes everything.

You 10 elements that make up a relationship, random number.

You have 5 elements in your current relationship, give it up for 5 other elements in another relationship or 5 new problems you never had before.

Do you, 

2nd time around is twice (2x) more likely to divorce

So the odds in the first marriage statistically is 7/10 get divorced

Statistically as some of the posters have said 3rd and 4th marriages.

My wife personally has a friend getting her 3rd divorce.

My wife is giving me up, 

My qualifications: loyal, good looking, athletic (almost a 6pack), muscular, devoted father, non-smoker, non-drinker, makes a good living (85K+), veteran, college man, tall, dark, has almost all his hair, funny, witty, amateur chef, smooth lover, handy fix it man, can drive a stick, woodsy, campy, traveler, endurance athlete, soccer player, technology skills abound, no body odor, own my home, three cars, love sentimental movies, love stories, I'm neutered, and the list could go on.

I must have some serious flaws


----------



## outinthecold

Or is it just that we're not compatible

Must be number 1 on the list of my flaws with her

My detractors: PAPD (working on it), messy, loud, eclectic (I have a lot of stuff), etc.


----------



## outinthecold

Dark Angel

Guilt, I bet she is drowning in it

Leaving the kids
Leaving me not so much


----------



## dcrim

OITC, it's either guilt or remorse at what she has committed herself to. 

I hate to break it to you...but, yes, you do have flaws!

You're too good for her!!!


----------



## outinthecold

If love were math:

10 things make up a relationship and you have 7 with a -1z, -1g, -3q (problems), the next relationship you may be looking for the missing 3 but the total is only 5 plus a -3a, -1b, -2c (problems you never had before)

What do you do then and what did you give up?

Formula for soul mate -> g(z + y + 9x)^2 = 6xh^k(p-9b)

What are the chances for these two sides to equal, probably none, but my wife and I came pretty close.

It does take two, but now I'm only one.


----------



## dcrim

Hey, OITC! That was good! You should start a matchmaking service!


----------



## Rhea

My qualifications: loyal, good looking, athletic (almost a 6pack), muscular, devoted father, non-smoker, non-drinker, makes a good living (85K+), veteran, college man, tall, dark, has almost all his hair, funny, witty, amateur chef, smooth lover, handy fix it man, can drive a stick, woodsy, campy, traveler, endurance athlete, soccer player, technology skills abound, no body odor, own my home, three cars, love sentimental movies, love stories, I'm neutered, and the list could go on.

What's your # ??????


----------



## Rhea

Btw the way...loyal seems to throw a lot of people off....threw my ex off too, I never knew faithful and loving were so "unattractive" :scratchhead:

BUT now I'm beginning to wonder. Damnit.


----------



## Sandy55

neutered......

vas is not neutering, or better not be :rofl:


----------



## tobeamiss

I'd have to say both guilt and remorse. Now that she's out on her own she's wondering if she did the right thing. I'm sure it's real quiet at her place...and it doesn't help not being around the kids. You know they say "careful what you pray for, you just might get it".... 
Well anyway, let her cry, don't console her and don't take too much that she says or does seriously. She'll get over it. I think though she's having her 'light-bulb' moment. she'll work it out.

p.s. where have you been all my life? those are some good qualifications!


----------



## outinthecold

I also have my detractors


----------



## outinthecold

loyal as Labrador, 

To some, faithful means clingy 

and

Loving means smother


----------



## outinthecold

I love you guys, it is so nice to read your thoughts


----------



## Dark Angel

outinthecold said:


> I love you guys, it is so nice to read your thoughts


You can read our thoughts????

*puts on tinfoil hat*

So what am I thinking now?

I have more for your list:

Kind means weak

Forgiving means push over or cowardly


----------



## tobeamiss

I think that's my problem right now. Forgiving means pushover.


----------



## outinthecold

I'm going to have to assemble these words into book.


----------



## outinthecold

I gave her a ride today to work along with my little one to the athletic club to swim, I had not seen her in about a week.

She has gained about 10 maybe 15 pounds around her mid section.

She use to bloat at that time of the month.

Maybe it is that rather than eating wrong and no exercise.

Michigan requires six months to wait before you can actually get divorced if you have minors.

My soon to be ex-wife said we can do it faster if we wave something.

I think she is getting ready to start a relationship if it is not already going.

The thing is, I look at her these days as a walking tragedy rather than all the emotional hurt I had been feeling.

I think I am at some empathy stage for her, she is having an identify crisis, middle age crisis, emotional crisis, financial crisis etc. 

I have found no way to help her, I can only take care of the kids.


----------



## outinthecold

Sleep, to sleep per chance to dream

I have been having dreams about her

Uuuuuggghhh!!!!!!!

I've forgotten what they were about, but they were still of her.


----------



## dcrim

I know the empathy stage, too. I never got to "hate"...just disappointment at xgf. 

Hang in there...you will get better. 

She put on weight and you think she's found someone?


----------



## outinthecold

Hay Dave, where you been?

I missed you!

It is definitely the same guy.

Oh well, I'm looking for that open window.

The kids are ok, they keep right on going.

Harry Potter is opening today, my 16 year is all ready to Pott-arty.

I made her a robe and she is going to the premiere today and pott-arty at a friend's house this evening, wand and glasses.

She did not go with my wife up north for the week so she could be a part of the action today.

Life does keep going.


----------



## outinthecold

Ladies no offense, but I feel like the woman.

I have the same lifestyle, most of the money, consoling, the sympathy from the kids, house, kids, crying sessions and all the responsibilities of mopping up after.


----------



## Rhea

Not a woman....just a very responsible loving man and father whom is taking up a role he already possessed but stepping it up in a time of crisis and doing a damn good job at that  Keep doing what you're doing it's obviously working well. You made your daughter a cape? Are you sitting at a sewing maching whilst you update your thread Mr. OITC? LOL JK. But that's awesome! I don't think my Dad could make a cape lol...but I bet ya he'd damn sure try if it meant something to me. OITC...like I said, keep doing what you're doing...you're cementing a relationship w/your kids that's irreplaceable. My father as I've said several times, is my hero, my rock, my best friend...I would be so lost w/o him because he's such an awesome guy...good to see the bonds of a man w/his daughter  No Potter movie for you though eh?


----------



## outinthecold

Rhea

My grandmother raised me, not much to do then except crochet, knit and sew.

I use to help with quilts, curtains, crochet hats and scarfs, hem my own pants.

I was considered a husky back then in wardrobe talk.

If you can believe it, in Junior high I played football for coach Harry Johnson at Tates Creek Junior High in Lexington Kentucky and our quarterback was Todd Blackledge. The last guy to take Paterno to an undefeated football season at Penn State.

No one knew I was hemming jeans at home.

Although, I never learned housework, I still have not mastered cleaning.


----------



## outinthecold

Rhea

No Potter for me, toooooo many details.

Like I walked out in the 23rd hour of 24 and now I'm lost.


----------



## Dark Angel

You sir are a man of many talents. Be proud of yourself.

She really will regret this some day. She may never say so or come back but that nagging feeling will be there at the back of her mind once and awhile.

Keep building the self worth.

Keep being your childrens hero (because you are one).

You have alot to offer this world, and its waiting for you.


----------



## Rhea

DA, read my signature...that's exactly what's going to happen to OITC's stbx. 

Ah Harry Potter yes, I've tried to watch as well. Never really was die hard into it. 

Yes many talents OITC. You can quilt damn my Momma'd love you! LOL she's a quiltaholic  That's awesome you can do all those things!


----------



## mumof2

If my husband was half the man you were we might not be where we are now. And stuff the housework as your talents obviously lie elsewhere. Vacuuming can wait!!!

You should be very proud of yourself. Why are we all so bad at bigging ourselves up.


----------



## outinthecold

Jeepers, what a feel good day you ladies and guys have made for me.

Thank You


----------



## outinthecold

I had a good day today.

Thanks people for reminding me that I am worth all that I am.


----------



## voivod

dcrim said:


> She put on weight and you think she's found someone?


yeah. maybe ronald mcdonald. or (if she's into multiples) ben and....jerry. i'm a stinker. sorry.


----------



## Rhea

holy sh*t V that was funny


----------



## Rhea

speaking of which...damn I wish I had a McRib right now. YUM. for real I really am starving right now....and the beer just ain't cutting it...I need some snacks, a girl's gotta eat. 

OITC I'm glad you had a good day today. 

Rhea


----------



## outinthecold

-Rhea, a McRib?

Where do you live that there are McRib sandwiches?

They're extinct in Michigan 


-voivod

What is weird, my soon to be ex-wife is almost a vegetarian, so it has to be sweets.

Plus, her complexion is bad, she looks worn out, 

probably from working her two jobs and extra shifts.

I've taken care of her financially for more than 20 years, for her to give that up, I know the relationship is over.

I do care for her, she has given me four(4) wonderful children and she will be there for life.

Enough dwelling, I'm looking ahead, going to the driving range today at lunch, then golfing tomorrow.

Very nice weather here in Lansing


----------



## dcrim

Hey, OITC - paint little faces of your stbx on the balls! Then really hit them!  

Glad you're feeling better! Keep hanging...


----------



## tobeamiss

sounds like you're doing a hell of a lot better than she is....going to the range even....
can you say "Hugh has moved on" ?


----------



## Rhea

LOL KS is where I'm at  We get the McRib at good old Mcwillkillyaifyoueattoomuch for about 3 months out of the year they're oh so bad for you yet oh so yum.


----------



## dcrim

Rhea, I've had that a couple of times...still prefer the $ menu.  

Hugh, how are you doing? Keep hanging on, dude! I sense you are getting better..slowly. Just know it will get better...it will take time...you can't rush it. We're here for you. I know it hurts. It will ease.


----------



## outinthecold

She went up North with the kids for the week.

She called me, 

We were having a good conversation,

Then she started to cry,

At first it was about her Grandmother who is in poor health, nasty woman, judgemental. Her grandfather who passed away a little while ago was a sweet man, always treated me as his own. Hard to believe they were married.

She wanted to know if I was Ok, 

She kept saying that, while crying,

I have no idea what this means, I'm not even going to try to understand.

I can only keep going.


----------



## dcrim

So sorry, OITC!! Don't know what that means...maybe she's feeling some remorse? IDK. 

uh, was she drinking? That lowers the inhibitions...maybe she was feeling (finally!) what she missing, losing?


----------



## outinthecold

You know, I thought it would never have to come down to this, but her leaving me has taught me pretty much only one thing.

She said it herself, "I choose me, I choose my happiness above everything else".

I'm going to do the same.

My 2nd oldest will graduate in two(2) years, and I am going to move.

Move to California or Washington State.

The 3rd oldest will be about 16 by then, it will really only affect the 7 year old, which she will be 9/10

My soon to be ex-wife has taught me I only have one life and I have to live it.


----------



## dcrim

Well if you pass though this way, you're welcome to stop and visit!  

Good luck with the move. Get as far away as possible. Start fresh. 

Any idea where you'd move to?


----------



## tobeamiss

glad you're thinking about yourself and making plans for the future. :smthumbup:
Me on the other hand am not having such luck. 
I'm ready for divorce but finding it impossible to take that first step.


----------



## outinthecold

Dave, I have friends in Northern California, sunnyvale, portola valley

I am a poor guy, these guys own massive real estate.

But, I think I could live small somewhere and pull double the salary I make here in Michigan.

It sure would help the girls.


----------



## outinthecold

Odd yesterday, she is talking all nice again after being an absolute crank saturday night.

The 16 year old doesn't want to go over, doesn't want to talk to her, doesn't want anything to do with her, doesn't want to admit we are divorcing.

She has asked me to talk to her, well I did and thats what the 16 year said.

I can't make her go.

Part of it is shes 16, very sensitive to all sorts of social things.

The 13 year doesn't want to go either, the youngest is the only one going, at 7 what choice does she have.

I'm stuck in the middle trying to forget her.


----------



## outinthecold

There are so many lonely people out there living alone, I can see why now.

I relate to movies and I'm going to relate this to, "An Interview with a Vampire"

One of the reasons Lestat needed Louis was that vampires can't adapt to new times. This is why there are no old vampires, or if there are any they need someone young to bring them into the new world.

Same way with old relationships that break up, if you have someone young to bring you along, yippppeee, but if not then you just kinda want to fade away as Lestat did.


----------



## outinthecold

I wish, I wish, I wish I could move now.

Maybe this week the lottery will come in for me.

Then I can move, move, move,

California is the place i wanta be, swimming pools, movie stars.

Today was an easy going day, until I thought about my anniversary.

July 26th would have been 20 years married. 

Together since March 8th 1985.

Now, I just wanna crawl away somewhere, somewhere dark and quiet where I can wallow in silence.


----------



## dcrim

I know, Hugh...I moved out just before my 20th, too. I even thought of sending her a card...didnt't though. 

You're going to be all right, just hang in, dude! We all love you here!


----------



## preso

I think about sending my ex a note or card sometimes, but I won't do it as his reaction will surely tick me off...
so I allow him to find out on his own, I moved on... to a better man... a easier life...
and for him to know I don't give a dam what he thinks about it.


----------



## outinthecold

It seems in so many ways, she is right,

we are not compatible
interests are different
lifestyle is different
life dreams diverge

we did have one thing, a powerful thing, the thing between us
can you use words to describe a rose in bloom
if you only saw us, 
together, 
before the end, 
you would say, "Thats love"

I feel less and less everyday, even the words I am using above seem to have less and less affect on me

I'm out, maybe not completely, but mostly


----------



## outinthecold

I've been changing the house around

Moving furniture

Going to start painting this week

Buying stuff for the kids, bikes, clothes, a car

I've been golfing

I took off my wedding band about a month ago, the imprint of 20 years is still there, I can still feel the ridge

I've only had it off a handful of times in my whole adult life

No remorse now, just need to stay focused on my really bright future

She keeps wanting to help me in the house, cleaning, laundry she even wanted to help me with the roof. 

Go figure

I wish she would take the dog with her, Grizzy, he's about 7 and just about as fuzzy as a dog can be, sheds here there everywhere

I never thought I would like cats, our cat is cool "Crazy" we call him, he acts like a dog, goes on walks with us, chases cars, kills all rodents around the house

Going to be alone for a few days, kids up north with the ex-misses

What will I do with my time?


----------



## outinthecold

Good time to refinish the kitchen floor, been meaning to get to that


----------



## Rhea

Too bad the lot of us don't all live in a central location...we could all get together and get to movin on. It's hard to do alone...the hardest part for me is all of my friends in new marriages or talking about celebrating anniversaries...I have a cousin that just got married and two friends planning weddings that are upcoming in October...and here I'm freshly dropped on my a$$ trying to start over...I'm lonely, it sucks. I miss him, but he's being an a$$, trying to not so much forget him but block him out...I feel you. Wish I had a house or something to work on...wish I wasn't so [email protected] broke or I go do some retail therapy....ugh kind of a dumpy day for me...sorry I should be here cheering you up...my apologies.

My thoughts are with you..

Rhea


----------



## dcrim

Hey, Rhea -- you're doing a great job! OITC can now see that someone else feels even worse than he does!  

BTW (((*** HUGS ***))) to both of you!


----------



## preso

Rhea said:


> Too bad the lot of us don't all live in a central location...we could all get together and get to movin on.
> Rhea


This is better, we can visit and don't have to go anywhere, can come anytime and don't have to dress . or even leave the comfort of our own homes


----------



## outinthecold

Rhea, 

One of the things about getting over PAPD was to concentrate on others.

This is the reason I felt like volunteering time at the hospital. 

I just wanted new friends.

People who don't know the two of us as a couple or know our kids.

I'm just me and I can be of service to someone else.

There are way more people distressed in the world than me.

People with real life threatening problems.

Rhea, you have people in your life in the cusp of happiness, get a piece of it. 

Help out with the wedding, or anniversary or birthday. 

Talk to people in a good mood, it does rub off.

Concentrate on others, there are always people happier and sadder.

I give you warm hugs and a big cheek to cheek kiss like the Europeans do.


----------



## goatz

She will want you back within a year. If you want her back and if you think it's a good idea, keep well groomed, go out even on friendly terms with someone that talks to her and show them that you've really changed (it will get back to her), don't act like your better off without her but don't tell her your not either, keep doing what your doing with the kids, don't do drastic things like buy a new car or move because she will take that as a sign you've completely moved on, be nice to her and show concern but don't go on and tell her that you want her back (let her come to you), let her suffer and don't make it easy on her but create an atmosphere around you that will draw her back into that comfort zone, be upbeat and cheerful when you talk to her except when it comes to marital probs then act somewhat depressed (make sure its obvious but not blubbery), and in casual conversation tell someone who will go back and tell her that there is someone at work who is showing an interest in you. Don't ask her to come back, make her want to. I don't know just how far gone the marriage is but if you still want to keep it go for it. No one here can tell you what will make you happy, only you truly know. As far as her asking you if she was "OK"; sounds like a little remorse and questioning if it was her jumping the gun. Do you think she was enticed by a admirer, and the thought of something exciting made her do what she did?

Did you ever think of moving to WV? I moved here from downriver about 2 years ago, and its great. Awesome schools and a lot closer to family than California.


----------



## tobeamiss

goetz...I get what you're saying. But, trying to manipulate will only set him back I think.


----------



## goatz

They also may both be happier this way, and in the end that's what truly matters.


----------



## snix11

bah. happiness is overrated.


----------



## goatz

snix11 said:


> bah. happiness is overrated.


Than why are you here? lol


----------



## outinthecold

Like the man said, you eat cake everyday

Some days you have frosting

It is good to get up every morning, 
have million dollar legs, 
brush your own teeth,
chew your own food,
have kids that love you,
able to hug,
have most of your hair,
be able to see your own ah, stuff below when you look down (bellies get in the way)
be pain free,
be able to eat,
be able to scratch your back with either hand,
go to the bathroom on your own,
smell flowers,
watch a child play,
hear laughter,
be able to clap,
or just to live

Count yourself lucky if you can do all the above, a lot of people can't


----------



## outinthecold

Goatz

The future is so far away

I am just living day to day

Planning for someday

Feelings may come back one day

But not today

Today, I'm just having a good day

Yes, today is a good day


----------



## goatz

Enjoy life to the fullest, if it is not meant to be, so be it. Hold onto your kids and love yourself. You will find meaning again.


----------



## Rhea

outinthecold said:


> Rhea,
> 
> 
> Rhea, you have people in your life in the cusp of happiness, get a piece of it.
> 
> Help out with the wedding, or anniversary or birthday.
> 
> Talk to people in a good mood, it does rub off.
> 
> Concentrate on others, there are always people happier and sadder.
> 
> I give you warm hugs and a big cheek to cheek kiss like the Europeans do.


Yesterday I had a meltdown, it happens. I'm very happy for those on the verge of wedded bliss or those whom have just entered in...excited for them very. Babies, oh I love babies and my best friend is prego due in December...long time coming as her DD is 11...excited for and her new hubby and the DD to have a new life. I really am. I just got stuck on my own pity for a moment. Today I'm better. Still lonely. But I know my day will come. I'm just not a "looker" so I don't actively search for said mate. I believe they find their way into your life at the right time so who knows when that will be but I have faith that someday it will again be mine for the "loving" 

Good to hear your doing well OITC keep it up. 

Rhea


----------



## dcrim

snix11 said:


> bah. happiness is overrated.


NO, IT'S NOT, GIRL!!! You need a night with Mr. Patron and another good friend!


----------



## dcrim

OITC, I can still see my feet! That's a good thing!  Except for the legs thing...I'm good with ALL of that!


----------



## Mari

I think that at a time like this you need family around. Is there anyone you can call that can watch your children while you try and get some sleep.

You may also want to make an appointment to see your doctor. Perhaps he can give you something to help you through this time, as you do need to be there for your children.

I've been there myself so know what I'm talking about. You're scared and probably feel like you're sinking. You just need some help to cope and believe me you'll get better and stronger.


----------



## outinthecold

Mari, who are you talking to?

Me or someone else on this thread?

If it is me, I'm doing better today, then in months

The weight of emotions has been lifted

I'm comfortable with myself

It seems my soon to be ex-wife is the emotional roller coaster

She broke down again this morning (she came over to pick up the kids for their day together)

Talking about all sorts of emotional things between us when there is no us anymore

She keeps wanting me to meet someone, well I really really don't feel the need to meet someone.

I want more friends, but anything else I'll leave up to chance.

Friends, are really the key to life, I've made many friends here. I count on the daily conversations I have with people on this site as nurturing words I take onward in my journeys.

Everyone means well, I've only heard encouraging, loving, positive words.

Me, I'm doing rather well


----------



## outinthecold

I give my ex- every opportunity to be with the kids as much as she wants.

No restrictions, either in my house or in her apartment or take them overnight or whatever she wants to do.

I even pay for their activities or meals or whatever comes up.

The kids need their mother, besides it gives me a chance to be alone.

Which I like being alone in the house.

I have not been alone since, like ever

Home, to the military, to college roommates, to back to the military, to being married with children for the past 20 years.

I like being alone

My stuff stays where I put it


----------



## outinthecold

Maybe someday I will feel "Alone" but not today and certainly not tomorrow.

Somebody said, "There are no coincidences".

I'll find somebody someday, I'm a great catch for any lady, except for my ex-wife of course.

There is no going back now, too many things bother me about it.

My conscious is clear, I tried everything to keep it going.


----------



## tobeamiss

you may have a point LOL

I've been thinking too that love is highly overrated.


----------



## Rhea

*I'll find somebody someday, I'm a great catch for any lady, except for my ex-wife of course.*


Hey! Me too!:iagree:


----------



## Rhea

well 'cept of course I'm a great catch for any man  'cept for my ex husband of course  LOL


----------



## recent_cloud

Rhea said:


> well 'cept of course I'm a great catch for any man  'cept for my ex husband of course  LOL


you were a great catch for your ex as well

he's just too much of an ass to have realized that.

and there's nothing worse than missing out on an amazing life
opportunity due to another's assheadedness.


----------



## Rhea

*he's just too much of an ass to have realized that.*

:iagree: But I'll stop jacking OITC's thread now...

My apologies OITC

I admire your strength


----------



## dcrim

"assheadedness"??? ROTFLOL!!!!

Hey, while we're at it, I'm a great catch, too! Except for the xgf...don't have enough money for her!


----------



## dcrim

Rhea said:


> :iagree: But I'll stop jacking OITC's thread now...


um, wouldn't that be "jilling"?  

Yeah, OITC, just trying for a little humor. Smile, it'll make you feel better.


----------



## outinthecold

recent_cloud said:


> you were a great catch for your ex as well
> 
> he's just too much of an ass to have realized that.
> 
> and there's nothing worse than missing out on an amazing life
> opportunity due to another's assheadedness.




I don't know that I was, 

we all carry around hurt from childhood,

maybe there was too much wrong with me that I could not heal her.

Some say, 

two people get married to heal each other, 

that marriage is about that,

healing can't happen if both people are broken the same way,

there is someone out there that I can heal, 

maybe it's you, 

or 

the next person, 

around the corner, 

around the bend,

my next turn,

on a ride,

sitting near me,

next in line

or 

at a barbecue,

or 

glancing my way at the zoo,

could it be who?

said Horton I hear.


----------



## outinthecold

Dave, we all have enough for someone,

Keep the chin high,

Keep the heart open, 

Keep the smile going,

Keep the laughter rolling,

Someday,

Somewhere,

Someone for you.


----------



## outinthecold

I love that word -> "*assheadedness*"

Brings me back to the "ButtHeads" Keenan Ivory Wyans

I'll have to add it to my list along with "click and pray"


----------



## outinthecold

Rhea said:


> well 'cept of course I'm a great catch for any man  'cept for my ex husband of course  LOL


I agree Rhea, you are a great catch for any man!

Or 

Any woman for that matter (if you swing that way)

Sometimes I think it would be easier to be Gay.

Think of the cost savings, 

We could shop together, 

wear each others clothes, underwear, socks, t-shirts, dress shirts,

only need one dresser or closet, no need for his and hers

never argue about movies (guys like action/horror, women like chick flicks), 

going to bed, guys late watching TV, girls early beauty sleep

guys hire a maid to do housework, ladies love housework (I didn't really write that)

guys love to eat out, ladies love to eat out (no contrast there)

guys love to eat meat, ladies love vegetables

guys don't live long, die together, ladies live long, live long together

Living in a retirement home, what fun, 

All male retirement home, New man every night, every week new one moves in, old one dies

All female retirement home, New woman every night, every week new one moves in, over-crowding

Yeah, it would be good to be Gay

If I offend, I apologize, I have lots of Gay friends and they are nags


----------



## dcrim

Or bi - doubles your chances.  Got that from an old Woody Allen movie...


----------



## tobeamiss

assheadedness....hehehehe


----------



## Rhea

lol see there RC your words made us all giggle repeatedly...assheadedness lol...

OITC your words just amaze me

Poetic

Very thought provoking

and I love the lets all be gay it'd be easier lol

I have gay friends too...I'ma have to tell one in particular of what you said it'll make him giggle.


----------



## karajh

I felt that way when my husband and I first separated. It took me 6 months to finally get to a place where the pain was not so bad. DO NOT DRINK during all of this because it could kill any possibility you have with her if you do decide you want her back, plus if you don't and decide to move on then there is an addiction you have to kick before you can have another meaningful relationship. The old adage that "Time heals all wounds' really is true. Immerse yourself in things that you like to do and spend as much time as you can with the kids. He left me and I find myself emotionally moving on now. He did the whole I want you.. no I don't thing. It was really confusing! So there is hope!

Good luck to you if you need to talk I am available!


----------



## outinthecold

Happy Wedding Anniversary Everybody

my 20th today

21st, no use crying any more


----------



## outinthecold

My sister is arlight


----------



## outinthecold

Life goes on


----------



## karajh

I am so glad to hear that you are doing better now!


----------



## outinthecold

My ex-soon-to-be has asked if we could go as a family to Cedar Point (amusement in Ohio).

I said Ok, it would be a whole day spent together as a family we use to be.

Things is, we will probably be together alot that day because our little one usually follows us.

I know what I have to do, be gracious, be up beat, be positive, be everything I was not before but where I am now.

Any opinions on this?


----------



## dcrim

OITC, my wife and I separated about a month before our 20th, also. I almost got her a card without thinking about it. 

But were amicable and knew we were done. 

The first time the anniversary date was a bit lonely!


----------



## tobeamiss

be anyway you want to be. Don't be phony.


----------



## outinthecold

Good idea

I'll just be myself, the new improved me.


----------



## outinthecold

I've been able to let go easier as of late, my relationship with my soon-to-be-ex was not as it seemed.

True or not, she said our marriage was based on infatuation and not love.

I can accept that, 

I can accept many things in post marriage, 

I had a friend (Kevin) tell me about his marriage the other day,

I had not seen him in almost two years and knew him before he was married some 15 years ago, 

I was at the wedding,

He found out almost a year and a half ago she had been dating many men for over a year or more (he does not know for sure). Some in the office she worked (including the janitor),

She is/was a very beautiful sexy woman,

With a body to match,

He found this out, two days before his 15th wedding anniversary which included a $9,000 anniversary ring and a trip to Mexico, 

Unfortunately, he found out at the same time his family did

Everyone knows about it,

He stop uncovering rocks with stuff hidden inside them about four months ago,

He cried a river of tears,

Used trees upon trees of tissue,

Joined a baptist church (only white guy in the church)

He has forgiven her, 

still loves her, 

is tormented by all of it,

Others have it much more difficult than I,

At least, I can let it go,

I can be gone with it,

I can move on without it,

I am far less complicated than he,

I know and see others in pain, 

I'm still looking for that window.


----------



## outinthecold

True love for me never existed,

It may someday,

People keep saying to me when I least expect it,

I'm going to keep on going,

Fixing myself,

Leaving my old self behind,

Looking for that window.


----------



## outinthecold

Today is another beautiful day in Lansing Michigan,

I'm going to hit golf balls today at lunch, 

Trying out my new clubs.


----------



## Dark Angel

you give me hope that I will be able to get up off the floor one day and begin my life again.

Keep it up brother, you'll get there someday.

you may run into the woman of your dreams tomorrow

completely out of the blue. life just works like that


PS: im still going to pillage your thread for lyrics. sometimes your words are haunting my man.


----------



## Rhea

Sing for us Dark 

OITC will pen the ballad, you belt it out


----------



## recent_cloud

and the ballad will continue to be writ in a man's mind

with little attention paid to reality

but much attention paid to farce.


----------



## outinthecold

Eternal is hope,

I met a pessimist the other day, 

He wanted me to help him form a pessimist club, 

We got a bunch of pessimists together for the first meeting,

He asked everyone what they thought of the club, 

No one thought it would work,

Hope is eternal.


----------



## outinthecold

I went to the doctor yesterday, my annual drugs and checkup.

I recently took a TB test (required for volunteering at the hospital) which turned out to be positive, so I had to have a chest X-RAY which turned out to be negative, whew!

I am not a sufferer of TB as Doc Holiday was.

Good news, I lost 22lbs from my last visit.

I would like to get down to a good fighting weight of 185, what I weighed when I got out of basic training some 25 years ago.

I am at 225, a little ways to go yet

I am also doing abs of steel and a Tabata workout


----------



## outinthecold

Which are you "Event" or "Tenderness"

I qualify this statement with, are you the event parent or are you the tenderness parent?

The event parent is the one who swoops in, takes the children to an "Event" and then deposits the children back at the ex-spouse's house.

The tenderness parent is the one who cleans scraps on the knees, makes breakfast, waits up until all hours, works two jobs, makes dinner, takes the dog for a walk, bakes cake, hugs when they cry, there at the emergency room, does laundry, makes the bed, does the dishes, there for nightmares, makes excuses for the ex-spouse, and the list goes on.

So which are you?


----------



## Corpuswife

I've read your thread and marvel at your strength. 

My husband is very similiar to your wife. Wanted that divorce no matter what but was very pained and guilty along the way. We have been married 24 years. 

I ended up asking him to separate first before the divorce. He hadn't thought of that but agreed. He's moved out 19 days ago. 

I pretty much behave as you have/did....not really giving him the time of day. I've set boundaries regarding communication etc. I want him to feel how it is to be divorced.

Anyway....I believe that your wife already regrets her decision in some way. May not fully enough to want to reconcile yet. However, I DO feel that she will reconsider down the road. You may not want it at that point. This is just my opinion based up what I've read. 

Stay strong. You are incredible.


----------



## outinthecold

Every time we have an encounter now, she cries

Oh, cries about the kids

She talks to me about my ... not about feelings

She keeps me at arms length and then a 10 foot pole

I just want to move away and never see her again

Maybe some opportunity will come along

She talks so pitifully, no money, no time, no sleep

I am loosing any sympathy I use to have for her


----------



## outinthecold

I am the one who was left

Why do I have to support her

She should be happy 

She left me

I have the kids

I have the problems

I have the war torn house (renovations)

I am the one stuck at home


----------



## outinthecold

Dave where are you?


----------



## tobeamiss

that's a shame.


----------



## frozensprouts

I know how you feel- can someone tell me, does it get ny better, or will it always hurt like this?


----------



## outinthecold

I can tell you

I have great days

I have glorious days

I have dump days

I have bucket days

I have tissue days

I have yelling days

I have sweet days

I have golf days

Stay away from me days

I have a fit days

Fit as a fiddle days

I'm fit to be tied days

Apple fritter eating days

My super fit running days

But mostly, I have better days

And better days

And better days

Then I'll be free one day


----------



## mistake maker

oitc: i just want to tank you, I just finished reading the full thread, and am hopefull that I can be half as strong as you. My wife took the kids and left a month ago, it has been a living H--l some days and ok others. I know there are alot of things that i have done to make it go bad, but after 21 years it is hard to let go.


----------



## outinthecold

MISTAKE MAKER

I have it easier than you, I have the kids. 

They are a great source of strength for me.

The reason my wife left has so many twists and variables that I could a spend a day looking at the clouds and match a reason to each cloud I see.

Just remember a few things, you are not the man you use to be, nor are you the man you are going to be, she is neither the girl you fell in love with nor will she be the woman who left you.

Take a hard look at the woman she is.

No one is at fault, always remember that, no matter what happened no one is at fault. We are only human, with lots of frailties.

But, you have promises to keep.

Your children are your number one priority now.

Never forget that.

Only show the most positive emotions to your children, they will be drawn to you.

Be there when you say you are going to be there, 

Do what you say you are going to do for them,

Always keep your word,

Always be dependable for them,

Your wife is up to you, there are only difficult paths towards getting your wife back or not.

If the hurt is so bad, each of you may have to let go of the other.

Your kids are forever. 

They are the best of the two of you, fail them and you fail in life.


----------



## outinthecold

Today was a crappy day

She was crying again, I went to Sam's club to meet her to comfort her

What a big mistake

She had developed photos of the kids, six cartridges in all.

Well we were going thru the photos and mixed among them

was a half naked photo of a man.

Well, I had to leave

What a crappy day

I cried all night long

I talked to as many people as I could

I still feel three steps back now

I must move on

My marriage is over

I must move on

My marriage is over

My life feels like it is over

I can't cry anymore, I have no more tears

Somebody make it go away


----------



## outinthecold

Oh somebody, pleeeeaaaaasseeeeeeee


----------



## outinthecold

I went to bed for an hour I think

I woke up to the sound of my own heart


----------



## outinthecold

It sure does suck to be me right now


----------



## outinthecold

Maybe tomorrow will be better


----------



## outinthecold

Any hope is gone.

It is like that rope you see in movies as a person keeps pulling up but it keeps fraying until there is just a thread left and that breaks.

I’m falling, I’m really falling this time


----------



## outinthecold

I cried all day, I didn't know what else to do


----------



## outinthecold

I'm much better now, I cried it out

I have a soccer game later on

I think I'm gonna be ok


----------



## outinthecold

I scored a sweet goal at the soccer game

Then for some reason in the middle of the field I had an overwhelming sense of her

I almost lost it right there

I came off the field

walked over to a fence, laid my head against it and cried and cried 

fortunately, my back was to the game, no one saw me except that my head was leaned against it.

When I came back, people asked if I was all right

I was ok when I came back

It was a difficult day


----------



## preso

outinthecold is dcrim ?


----------



## outinthecold

Dave is DCRIM, I have not seem him post in a while


----------



## outinthecold

I called Dave DCRIM, he's good, he's chillin


----------



## Dark Angel

Hey OITC

Sorry havent been about much. been busy and lost.

Man I feel your pain. Those long lonely nights you just want to cry out for someone to help. It haunts me as well.

I dont know how to get by it either and it consumes me day after day, night after lonely night.

Met a woman and went out a few times with her. feel great when shes around, but that feeling always creeps back in when shes not.

Its damaging. Not sure its a good idea right now.

Got to get over myself before Im really any good for anyone else.

But yeah, those nights.....ugghhhhh. They are too frequent.

Sounds like you really need to just get away from her entirely for awhile. I know you dont want to see her hurt cause your such a good man. You gotta start thinking about yourself first and foremost. She will be OK one day and so will you if you can get away from it for a bit and start to let go.

I feel for ya and I'll be thinking about what you are going through.

Take care brother. The world is still out there waiting for you.


----------



## outinthecold

DARK ANGEL

Thanks so much, give a jingle if you ever need to talk, send me a message and I'll give you my phone #

You are absolutely right, do not get involved with anyone. You are not free and clear, you will just chew up this person for all their emotional worth and spit them out. Wait, wait, until you wake up and you can say, I'm ok, and the next day you can say the same thing and then again the next day.

Here is the situation now:

A while ago, my soon-to-be-ex had a confrontation at work when a another female employee made up a rumour that her and he were caught by the cleaning crew hot-tubing it up. At the time, all people came to her aid. It became a rather big deal, investigation by the general director, all the cleaning people were questioned and the woman who made up the rumour was chastised by nearly everyone for what they thought at the time was fiction.

Unfortunately now, it is no longer fiction. They are boyfriend and girlfriend. He, I'll just refer to him as he, was also questioned by his soon-to-be-ex wife and accused of leaving her for my, I don't even know what to call her any more. 

When everyone at work finds out about this, the crap is going to hit the fan. I think everyone will feel betrayed because it is true now. Not to mention he is a manager and she works for a different female manager. I have a feeling lots people will be whispering and judging.

Plus the ex-wife of he, will probably throw a proverbial cow. I have a feeling their divorce will become rather messy along with visitation.

Everything to everyone will seem like a lie they both told. To everyone it will seem like she left me for him and he left his ex-wife for her. What a tangled web people weave.

My conscious is free, I tried everything. I'm taking care of my girls. I will be free, I know I will be.


----------



## outinthecold

There is a question that all couples get asked, "How did you meet?"

My ex and her he, I wonder how they will answer.

Some examples:

"Ahhhh and stutter", how do you tell the truth

"I was getting a divorce, and she was getting a divorce", only some truth

"I was talking to a vulnerable woman and moved right in", man up on that one

Something they will never say, is the truth


----------



## outinthecold

My office wife who is very sensible and has told me almost in exact order what has happened, her comments could have been a numbered check list of the events that were about to unfold.

Her very last comment was, "She is going to pay in consequences for choices"

I know this is coming, I'll do my best to shield the girls from their mother's fate.

For me, nothing has changed, my situation is no different with the knowledge of the other man.

I'm still getting a divorce, I still have girls to raise, I still have bills to pay, I still have movies to make, I still have stories to write.

It is just more final than ever.

There is no way back now, bridges are burned and tunnels have caved.

Forward I go, ready "March"

I'm okay

I'm okay

I'm alright


----------



## preso

outinthecold said:


> I called Dave DCRIM, he's good, he's chillin


ok thanks

I have not seen him here in awhile.


----------



## outinthecold

She took the kids on a vacation

I played golf today

I was good except for a few shots

No tears today

I worked out

I did yoga

I had a good day


----------



## outinthecold

Can I escape my skin?

Somedays I just wanna pull my way out of myself


----------



## voivod

outinthecold said:


> I called Dave DCRIM, he's good, he's chillin


and dcrim doesn't remind me of someone scoring a "sweet goal" in a soccer match.


----------



## recent_cloud

it's time to concoct an amazing story about your wife's company's hot tub.

and i know you will rise to the challenge.

andandand when you talk again to dave ask him about the many defintions of dramatis personae as referenced in his original love lost thread.


----------



## outinthecold

A while ago I said love is like math,

I still think it is, 

But, to be more accurate,

love can be described by math.

10=10

My soon-to-be-ex only had one real problem before, me

Now, she has,

the kids and trust and abandonment and time and love and on and on

work gossip and trust

time, no time for anything

money, no money

his children

his ex-wife

his work

his lack of money

pressure, 

So a trade happened

10 - w = 2 + a + b + c + d + f + z + 4

I am free to discover myself

Free of pressure

Free

Yet, I feel sorrow

Yet, I'm free

One day I will be


----------



## outinthecold

Sounds like I'm posting sour grapes, maybe I am.

I know time is the key, but how do people make it through this?

When I was a boy

I did boyish things

When I was a man

The hurt just seems deeper than ever I could have imagined.

The hurt that makes you want to burn down your house, jump off a bridge, drive into a tree, drink obliviously or just sleep or hack off your arm.

What kind of hurt is this, no band aid, no drugs, no shots, just alone with yourself and the pounding pain.


----------



## outinthecold

I cried a little bit today

Some mornings I get up and I can't get back to sleep

My girls are so wonderful

They went shopping yesterday for the house

I love them so

If I were by myself I know I would go crazy or just exercise all the time

The pain is less today


----------



## shelleyv

Hi there
the best thing i can say to you right now, is you dont want to be with someone, who doesnt want to be with you. Dont you deserve better than that. what is it about this other guy that she loves that you dont have? Its the oldest saying in the world, but time does heal everything. Just find joy in your kids now, and they need you to be there for them also. If you love someone, let them go. If they come back to you, they were yours, if they dont, they never were. Good luck.


----------



## outinthecold

Thank you shelleyv

You are right, who wants to be with someone who doesn't want you.

Actually, from the short glimpse that I saw him in the photo, he's overweight, nothing wrong with that, just she was after me all the time to loose weight, he looks older, a lot of white hair. 

He is a manager at a health club, still nothing wrong with that, just part of what she adored about me was my intellect. She thought it was sooo sexy that I'm a smart person.

I make a really good living 85+ a year, own my own home, now I really own my own home.

I have an exciting past, Army, working on my own, owned my own consulting business etc.

College educated went to U of Michigan

I'm really fit, working on my 6 pack abs, almost there, need to loose a bit more fat.

I play a multitude of sports well, lettered in tennis, soccer, football, wrestling. 

I'm a really good person, I'm the best father in the world, I'm taking full financial responsibility for the girls.

Yes you are right, I am definitely a good catch. Who needs someone who doesn't want you.

I'm getting there.


----------



## caribbean_dating

Once you're already sure about what you really want to happen that's the time you will make a move whether make yourself busy at work or find ways to let her back.


----------



## outinthecold

Thanks caribbean_dating

in my heart I know she is not coming back

I have the children to worry about and their futures

for me, I can eat bitters for a while


----------



## mistake maker

I like hearinf that you are putting yourself and the kids first. That is what I am trying hard to do.


----------



## outinthecold

It is very difficult, but as my late grand mother use to say, "Eat Some Bitters for your heart"

When I was young I did not know what she meant, as I have gotten older I find myself saying the same phrase often.

I wish I had paid more attention to my grandmother while she was alive. 

Somedays I miss her terribly.

"Eating Bitters", is good

The meaning is delayed gratification for yourself. 

You wait for the right time,

You invoke your own patience, 

You count to 10,

You do with what you have.

Someday it will fall in place.

Putting your children first, if we all just did that, "What a wonderful world"


----------



## outinthecold

I watch movies quite a bit. 

A habit since I was a lach-key kid, meaning I had a key to the house. 

I walked home alone everyday since I was 6 and stayed by myself until my mother came home at around 5:30.

I think things in the movie phrases like from "Kingdom of Heaven"

In the movie, a Saracen says, "Your qualities will be known among your enemies before you ever meet them"

Well, I don't have any enemies, I think of this as my "Reputation Precedes Me"

I try to live up to this everyday.

What do people think of me before I meet them?

What do people know of me before I meet them?

I hope they know I am a man of honor, generosity and high moral character.

This is what I try and live everyday.

This is what I project to my children everyday.

This is how I treat my soon-to-be-ex-wife everyday.


----------



## outinthecold

I can't just shut the ex out.

I can't treat her like someone who never existed.

I can't separate her from me.

People tell me to.

People tell me to cut her off.

People tell me to setup boundaries and barriers between.

People tell me to spread the news about her affair to everyone.

People tell me not to comfort her when she cries.

I say I have everything to gain.

The children have everything to gain if I help my ex-wife.

I have only more sorrow if I choose the lower road verses the high road.

The children have everything to gain if she prospers verses the pit of despair.

I have to help

I have to ignore my personal pride to do everything I possibly can to help everyone.


----------



## outinthecold

Have to get it thru my thick head, it is over, move on


----------



## dcrim

OITC...hang on/in! 

For the rest of you...no, OITC is not dcrim!  

My boys played soccer for nearly their whole lives (they wanted to play sports and I wouldn't allow football...they chose soccer). I do know what a sweet goal is! Seen hundreds of them!  BTW, oldest son's "select" team had a 216, 6, 6 record! Both played all positions from striker to keeper...oldest settled into sweeper, youngest liked keeper. 

OITC, I'm glad the fence was there! Sometimes you just have to do what you have to do. No shame. 

Hang in dude! I know what it feels like to see pix! That's how I found out about xgf's marriage. I know you felt sick! I left immediately and didn't even look at the rest of the pix. 

Only you can decide when the no contact point is reached. Get there and ONLY deal with kid issues. Shut her out of your life as much as possible.


----------



## outinthecold

Through this experience, I have developed deep connections with people that I otherwise would never have had.

Richard, my best friend
Dave, my best online friend
Bob, my best oldest friend
Betsy, my best office friend and office wife
Ray, my best boss mentor friend
Cindy, my best HR friend
Chris, my best youngest friend
Lisa, my long lost friend
Sam, my best financial friend
Ted, my best youngest looking friend
Marge, my best mom friend
Yaz, my best can't find a man friend

Other friends upon friends that have reached out to me and offered me kindness.

I have changed, people say this all the time, often very hard to do.
I pay attention to people more, I am more patient with my children and just things in general. What energy you give out is what you receive back.
I have grown spiritually.

Karma is real, karma is all around.

I was in the pit of despair but I have steadily climbed my way out.

I look forward to being free.


----------



## momentary lapse

Wow! I'm new here.....wish I didn't have to be here at all, but that's my stupid mistake and a whole other story.

Anyway, I just wanted to say I have just spent the morning reading through all of your posts. I'm glad to see there were a lot of them, and that there has been some sort of conclusion to your situation. I don't think my heart could have taken reading your posts day by day and waiting to see how you were doing. It really was heartbreaking to read some of your posts.

I felt so much better when I read your posts when you were having good days! And to find out that you are taking care of your kids and working on YOU! You're going to make it, and I'm so proud of you for that. Hang in there!

There has to be light at the end of every tunnel....at least that is what I keep telling myself! Keep thinking the good things~~~


----------



## PineappleLady

If you love her- FIGHT for her. Do not stand it any longer. Show her how you can love her. Get off your butt, turn off the computer, and so whatever it takes to get her back. Now- don't wait anymore- go!


----------



## outinthecold

Dear: *momentary lapse

*I thank you for reading, all the emotions are raw from my heart to the keyboard.

I am better, I just have to reinforce the "It is over".

It is over.

I am glad that people are taking some things from this.

There is road for you and for all of us.

The heart is strong, we have no control over it.

It points and we go.

We have no choice as people.

Whatever your situation, I hope you can gleam some retrospective footpath for where you want to be.


----------



## outinthecold

Dear: *PineappleLady*

It is out of my hands now,

I have made mistakes upon mistakes upon mistakes,

I hesitate to do anything, but do I want to do anything anymore?

She is with another man.

A hit from an emotional meteor for most men.

I have to let it go that the woman I loved is no longer there and the marriage I had is now gone.

My office wife told me that when a woman makes an emotional bond, she will head in that direction.

It is plain to me that is what happened.

Sure we had problems, 

She opened her self up with a conversation she should not have had.

No involved woman should ever have "That Conversation"

Regardless of how I feel, it is for the past, love or no love the person is gone, long live the new person.

I can look in retrospect and say I don't really know the new person. 

Nor do I care for this person.

Morally, she did something she would not approve of herself.

Emotionally, she left me for another man.

Physically, she gets hives now, something she never had before.

Marriage, she betrayed me.

Yes she looks the same, 

Mentally, she is a different person capable of massaging her actions into plausible realities to justify her leaving.

I have no feelings for this new person.

I long for the old, 

The innocent person I married,

So to answer you, I have no feelings for this new person, she just looks like someone I loved once before.


----------



## momentary lapse

outinthecold said:


> Dear: *momentary lapse
> 
> *I thank you for reading, all the emotions are raw from my heart to the keyboard.
> 
> I am better, I just have to reinforce the "It is over".
> 
> It is over.
> 
> I am glad that people are taking some things from this.
> 
> There is road for you and for all of us.
> 
> The heart is strong, we have no control over it.
> 
> It points and we go.
> 
> We have no choice as people.
> 
> Whatever your situation, I hope you can gleam some retrospective footpath for where you want to be.


Wow. Thanks for responding. You are a strong man and you are going to do great. I cannot imagine the pain and hurt you've been through....I hope I come out the other end half as strong as you, right now I feel I so guilty that I can never mend what I did. I just hope he truly realizes that I never meant to hurt him and that I want us to be together...I don't think I would survive otherwise.


----------



## outinthecold

*Dear: momentary lapse*

The only way to heal from anything when it comes to emotions is to tell all. 

Truth is the only thing that matters and all the truth you can muster to tell.

Never let the other think there is more truth that is un-said.

Hurt happens when truth is told.

Hurt continues with un-spoken words.

To amputate an arm, do you cut off one finger at a time?

No, you tell all like a band-aid ripped from you back-side.

Otherwise, it is splinter, no matter how small, embedded deep in a wound that will never close.


----------



## outinthecold

Today was a day spent with monotony.

Round and round I go with the lawn mower.

Over and over I go in my head, divorce, lies, betrayal, ah ha

Then a moment of clarity, 

My dog barked,

Someone needing directions near my lawn, 

No matter how small the help I gave

It reminded me that I am not the only one in the world

I need to give more of myself to others who have real problems

Not the simple "Wife doesn't love me anymore, move on"

But, I did get my lawn mowed


----------



## momentary lapse

outinthecold said:


> *Dear: momentary lapse*
> 
> The only way to heal from anything when it comes to emotions is to tell all.
> 
> Truth is the only thing that matters and all the truth you can muster to tell.
> 
> Never let the other think there is more truth that is un-said.
> 
> Hurt happens when truth is told.
> 
> Hurt continues with un-spoken words.
> 
> To amputate an arm, do you cut off one finger at a time?
> 
> No, you tell all like a band-aid ripped from you back-side.
> 
> Otherwise, it is splinter, no matter how small, embedded deep in a wound that will never close.


Hmmmm....very deep indeed.....I'm wondering....are you speaking from experience, or assuming that I haven't been telling the truth? I'm not judging, but I want you (and I guess everyone) to know I've told the whole truth....I hate what I did...realize it could be worse, but it's bad enough....

Had a very difficult, guilt-full day yesterday but today seems to be better. Who knows what tomorrow will bring...

OOPS!!! Not trying to turn this into being about me....sorry!!!


----------



## momentary lapse

outinthecold said:


> Today was a day spent with monotony.
> 
> Round and round I go with the lawn mower.
> 
> Over and over I go in my head, divorce, lies, betrayal, ah ha
> 
> Then a moment of clarity,
> 
> My dog barked,
> 
> Someone needing directions near my lawn,
> 
> No matter how small the help I gave
> 
> It reminded me that I am not the only one in the world
> 
> I need to give more of myself to others who have real problems
> 
> Not the simple "Wife doesn't love me anymore, move on"
> 
> But, I did get my lawn mowed


You accomplished something, and you helped someone. What more can you ask for? And, you've helped me, too!


----------



## outinthecold

*Dear: momentary lapse*

Please do not read my meaning as anything but an attempt to help.

I neither object or accuse.

I mean by truth, is to play it again and again like an LP with a worn out needle.

After a while, it no longer sounds like it did.

The person you have hurt, will feel all has been spoken and they can move on in the healing or move on in their decisions.

Please feel free to speak here, my forum is your forum.

We all are here to help one another.

If you need a stranger to talk to, my name is Hugh, send me a message I'll give you my number.

I live in Lansing Michigan, probably thousands of miles away from where you live.


----------



## momentary lapse

outinthecold said:


> *Dear: momentary lapse*
> 
> Please do not read my meaning as anything but an attempt to help.
> 
> I neither object or accuse.
> 
> I mean by truth, is to play it again and again like an LP with a worn out needle.
> 
> After a while, it no longer sounds like it did.
> 
> The person you have hurt, will feel all has been spoken and they can move on in the healing or move on in their decisions.
> 
> Please feel free to speak here, my forum is your forum.
> 
> We all are here to help one another.
> 
> If you need a stranger to talk to, my name is Hugh, send me a message I'll give you my number.
> 
> I live in Lansing Michigan, probably thousands of miles away from where you live.


Thanks for the help.....I appreciate it....


----------



## outinthecold

She came by today to take the kids to a movie.

After the incident at Sam's club, I have no wish to look at her.

I look down when I speak to her, she is no longer my wife.

She has moved on with a new man.

I remind myself of this to keep my perspective.

Ladies, picture a baseball hit out into center field, a an outfielder runs to catch it, at the last minute something gets into his eye and he looses track of the ball. His glove moves at the last instant and the ball breaks the shadow of the sun. A whish of air, he sees the stitching, too late to react, the ball impacts his brow making a sickening wet leather slap against his forehead.

This is how I feel.

I must keep moving, I most forget, I must never look back, something is gaining on me.


----------



## momentary lapse

Just remember that you need to take care of YOU.... and the kids.... What she has done is done and all you can do is move forward. I know, easier said than done. You will have good days and bad. Soon, hopefully, the good will outweigh the bad.


----------



## outinthecold

Beginning of another day.

It looks promising.

I woke up.

Got out of bed.

No coffee for me, smells great but can't stand the taste.

Going to concentrate on today.

It is almost school time for the kids.

The oldest went back to college.


----------



## outinthecold

I had a funny feeling, then I wanted to call my wife and tell her about it.

No one to call.

Sometimes the stark reality of your wife leaving you is heart pounding.

I'm shouting inside.


----------



## Corpuswife

I read your thread...poetic writing.

One of the things that has helped me in my grieving process HAS been to reach out to others. I have been volunteering lately and LOVE it. Try it. It will take the concentration off of you and your problems. I recommend this to anyone.

I read somewhere..."the way you gain happiness is through serving others."


----------



## outinthecold

*Dear: Corpuswife*

My life this morning seems full of regret.


----------



## outinthecold

I hope the rest of the day gets better


----------



## outinthecold

I don't know how the morning could have gotten any worse but it did.


----------



## outinthecold

I think what set my mood off was watching this depressing movie.

Then, the X brought the little one back this morning.

The little one told me her mom was going to a funeral.

Of course I asked, I should not have.

Her mom’s new boyfriend’s father died.

I didn’t know what to say.

I don’t know what to feel.

I should feel bad, someone died, someone I didn’t know.

I felt strange, I felt,

You wanna know what I really felt and it is terrible, I’m gonna tell you it is terrible my thoughts.

I felt, he deserved, to take my wife, you deserve any crap that comes your way.

I know, this is a horrible thought, so un-human, so un-caring.

I couldn’t help it

Now she gets to go to the funeral as the other woman, the woman in waiting, what is the family going to think? What are his kids thinking? What happens when old wife meets new girlfriend?

This is so negative of me

I have to get out of this mood.

I wish that stuff with the memory drain and kill could really be done.

I’d sign up to forget her.


----------



## outinthecold

It is better now


----------



## momentary lapse

Good for you! Hang in there!


----------



## outinthecold

I apologize for always talking so down in the dumps.

I need to talk more about when I'm UP.

I'm UP now, sort of.

I received two beautiful plants from a friend at the office.

She is my garden buddy.

We trade potting stories.

Looking forward to the walk home from the office.

It usually takes me about 30 minutes to get home.

It will be good in the sunshine before the fall leaves get me.


----------



## outinthecold

Looking forward to Altus on Thursday.

Ethopian food, really good stuff


----------



## momentary lapse

Don't apologize! That's what this forum is here for, I believe~someplace to come when we're feeling both up AND down!!


----------



## outinthecold

Al right so I walked home, it took me about 30 minutes

I worked out for an hour

my usual routine of push-ups, curls, roller ball, roller wheel and ax chop

I made dinner for the girls, they loved it

I am a okay

Maybe I'll go out for ice-cream later

Thanks for hanging with me


----------



## Dark Angel

outinthecold said:


> I had a funny feeling, then I wanted to call my wife and tell her about it.
> 
> No one to call.
> 
> Sometimes the stark reality of your wife leaving you is heart pounding.
> 
> I'm shouting inside.


I know exactly what you mean. Something happens in your day, whether it be good or bad and you want to share it with someone.

problem is you turn around and no one is there.

I'm really struggling with that too. Going to take some getting use to. Not that I want to share my day with stbxw anymore or that she would listen before anyways.

It would be nice for someone to be there to listen. Perhaps one day.

Hang in there brother. Everyone of those hard days will all fade eventually and the world will be right again.


----------



## Rhea

“Being happy doesn't mean that everything is perfect. It means that you've decided to look beyond the imperfections.”

I found this quote today...I'm trying to remember it as often as other thoughts intrude on me. One day at a time. Time does heal all wounds. They just never tell you exactly how much time it's going to take.

Saw pics of what I consider MY inlaws the other day on my ex's little gf's page stung a tad...yucks. But that's what I get for looking I suppose.


----------



## dcrim

OITC, I know the feeling...wanting to share and no one is there! I lost my best friend and I'll never know why. I still have family to talk to...but it's not the same intimacy. 

We're here for you, Hugh! Just keep posting. You do have an interesting style!  

DA, I'm hoping for that, too. Someday...


----------



## outinthecold

*Dear Dark Angel*

I am there man, having someone to talk to seems so important.

I'm glad my friend from Hawaii called, I have not talked to her in 10 years.

It sure was nice to hear her voice. I was at her wedding 10 years.

I can only share so much with my daughters, they have their lives which I should not be intruding on.

You want to reach out and touch someone feel their face, stroke their hair.

No one there.

One of the last things my X said to me was, "I know I need that (i was rubbing her back) but I don't want it from you".

I have to constantly remind myself of the course I am on.

I have to keep going on a train with tracks that only head forward.

One day, 

one day 

I'll be there at my destination, 

my stop, 

somewhere I can change trains, 

ride beside a special passenger.


----------



## outinthecold

*Dear Rhea*

Happiness is over rated.

There again, 

Somehow you arrived at the Happiness Platform,

I'll get off my train there,

Disembark here I come.

I've had enough bitterness and hurt


----------



## outinthecold

*Dear Dave*

I know Dave, 

one of these days you and me,

big steaks, 

big brew, 

you introduce yours to me

I'll introduce mine to you

We'll eat, 

We'll drink

We'll be on that Happiness Platform

I know we will.


----------



## outinthecold

I'm sorry I didn't mean to leave Dark Angel and Rhea out

The four of us with our special passengers

Riding the train to the "Happiness Platform"

In the dining car, champagne, burgers, steaks, Oh My.

Sitting at a huge round table, all glasses high

"Here's to you all, your spouses and I"


----------



## Rhea

Yeah...someday...hopefully.


----------



## recent_cloud

outinthecold said:


> She came by today to take the kids to a movie.
> 
> After the incident at Sam's club, I have no wish to look at her.
> 
> I look down when I speak to her, she is no longer my wife.
> 
> She has moved on with a new man.
> 
> I remind myself of this to keep my perspective.
> 
> Ladies, picture a baseball hit out into center field, a an outfielder runs to catch it, at the last minute something gets into his eye and he looses track of the ball. His glove moves at the last instant and the ball breaks the shadow of the sun. A whish of air, he sees the stitching, too late to react, the ball impacts his brow making a sickening wet leather slap against his forehead.
> 
> This is how I feel.
> 
> I must keep moving, I most forget, I must never look back, something is gaining on me.


lol priceless


----------



## outinthecold

Yep, today is going to be a good day


----------



## outinthecold

Time does fly

I'm back again on the right track

Heading down the bunny trail

Hippy Hoppy 

All along the way

I will be free

I'm working on my abs of steel, I'm still about 20 lbs away.

I've dropped from 245 down to 213

I think my abs will be more defined as I reach 200.

My real goal is 185, what I weighted when I got out of basic training. 

But there again I was only 20.

I'm gonna make a video and put it out on youtube

I think you guys will be shocked when you see it.


----------



## outinthecold

Anybody think I'm better off that she is gone?

I've watched a few of these skits on youtube where the wife leaves.

Most of the guys seem very happy

Some of them see down right ecstatic with laughter

I mean, I get almost everything, 

The house will be paid for in 7 years

Maybe I'm looking a gift horse in the mouth?


----------



## outinthecold

I feel so indifferent today

I can't move until the little one is much older

It seems everything is planned out for the next 7 years and I have no choice

On the other hand, everyday brings new promise.

New connections

New people to connect me to other people

I still have relapses, remembering the past

I have to keep motivated that the past is gone

Long live my future


----------



## Loving Husband

Its time to disconnect.. Start doing things you enjoy. It's the only way to move forward. Sitting in the past is doing no good for you. It only hurts more.


----------



## Dark Angel

outinthecold said:


> You want to reach out and touch someone feel their face, stroke their hair.
> 
> No one there.


YES! Those little things that seem so simple, yet I long for them again sooo badly.

I get caught up in the moment so easily. Why do I have to feel so much? I drives me crazy sometimes!

I already let someone else into my life, but shes too busy, never there. So Im still missing all those things when shes not around.

The way she looks at me and smiles
The way she wears her hair
The way she throws her head back when she laughs
That touch..

I could go on forever already.

Ugh why do I do these things to myself. :scratchhead:


----------



## outinthecold

*Dear: Dark Angel*

I know, I know

I'm at a stage almost, 

almost at the cliff's edge,

edge of night

night to day

day dreams

dreams in sleep

sleep, ahh relief

You will get there my friend,

There is an end to your destination,

Each journey must begin and end, each part of the journey is a step forward.

Short cut your journey and the end becomes further away.


----------



## outinthecold

Somedays like today it seems surreal.

She comes over, tucks the kids in, then leaves

I know she is gone, emotionally, physically,

but, I am also empathetic to her feelings, 

it must be a constant emotional nightmare to leave your kids behind,

not to enjoy the company of your older kids, 

I have emotional and physical contact with the older kids everyday.

I brush their hair, 

I watch them get up in the morning,

I see the fun teasing, arguing about clothes, the constant flux of the refrigerator, I see them eat, I see them snack, I see them lay around.

I am there for their childhood,

She only sees glimpses like a movie with blackout frames.

Or a story with redacted words.

Her choice.

But, no going back

I am on a track with a destination unknown

As Buddha says, "We Are What We Think We Are"

or "What We Think We Become"


----------



## outinthecold

A man can be happy with any woman, as long as he does not love her.

Oscar Wilde


----------



## momentary lapse

Hang in there! Be grateful that you have the chance to be with your kids and spend time with them. I know you are! It's your Xs problem that she's not.....


----------



## optimistvik

Past is past enjoy your future now

Ideal Gifts for all Ocassion: BobbleHead


----------



## outinthecold

Yes, I do have a future

I have a lot of free time I guess

The little one is off with mom

The bigger ones are with their friends

I have free time

What to do with myself during this free time.

Been trying to volunteer at the local hospital 

Seems like one delay after another

Friends can only stand me for so long

What to do

What to do


----------



## optimistvik

Just Sit & relax & chat with us . Don't take any tensions


----------



## outinthecold

Somedays I get really tired of being depressing.

Like today.

Somebody tell me a joke?


----------



## swedish

Two nuns are ordered to paint a room in the convent, and the last instruction 
of the Mother Superior is that they must not get even a drop of paint on their 
habits.

After conferring about this for a while, the two nuns decide to lock 
the door of the room, strip off their habits, and paint in the nude. In the 
middle of the project, there comes a knock at the door.

"Who is it?" calls one of the nuns. 

"Blind man," replies a voice from the other side of the door.

The two nuns look at each other and shrug, and, deciding that no harm can come 
from letting a blind man into the room, they open the door.
"Nice Gazonas," says the man, "where do you want these blinds?"


----------



## optimistvik

Great nice joke swedish
So how are you feeling now outinthecold

Ideal Gifts for all Ocassion: BobbleHead


----------



## outinthecold

I feel great today, I spent the evening talking to a very special girl.

She has a beautiful sexy voice.

Hope she calls me this weekend.


----------



## outinthecold

A guy standing on the ice drills a hole with an auger

He sits down ready to ice fish when all of a sudden a voice comes from above, "There's no fish under the ice"

The guy looks around but doesn't see anybody, he shrugs it off.

Then it goes again, "There's no fish under the ice"

The guy is perplexed but still doesn't see anybody, he goes back to fishing.

Then again like before only louder, "There's no fish under the ice"

This time, the guy yells back, "Who are you, God?"

Then the voice says, "No, this is the arena manager"


----------



## outinthecold

*Hey Momentary Lapse

You Ok?

I'm concerned?

Did something happen?

-H
*


----------



## outinthecold

*Dear: swedish*

Thanks for the joke, I used it at the office, I got a hysterical laugh from the ladies.

-H


----------



## outinthecold

You know, I feel good

I'm going back to play soccer tomorrow.

9:30AM


----------



## optimistvik

outinthecold said:


> You know, I feel good
> 
> I'm going back to play soccer tomorrow.
> 
> 9:30AM


It is very good that you are feeling very good now days . I am really very happy.

Ideal Gifts for all Ocassion: BobbleHead


----------



## outinthecold

WOW, I am really good tonight

Just spent an amazing two hours talking to a beautiful girl.

I'm good today

-H


----------



## optimistvik

outinthecold said:


> Just spent an amazing two hours talking to a beautiful girl.


Nice to hear this , Great enjoy :smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:

Ideal Gifts for all Ocassion: BobbleHead


----------



## outinthecold

Everybody heard of Karma?

Well it came full circle today.

My X was a blubbering mess, 

She said she was being punished for leaving,

She cried on the stairs in the house about as much a person can, her face looks like she's been in a title fight.

She even asked me to hug her, that was new.

Weird part, I didn't feel anything when I hugged her, I use to get all fluttery but I think my heart has moved on. 

Really moved on.

She misses the kids, unbelievably much,

The older ones do not respond at all.

The two younger ones just go along.

Well I invited her to be around the kids as much as possible, it is up to her to get them back. 

They need their mother, even if they act like they don't.

I'm in the basement again,

I have the TV and the Internet and my workout space, and my cell phone, so I'm good.

Anyone wanna call me, I'm good as an ear?


----------



## outinthecold

*I'm signing off,*

I think it is time,

I want to thank everyone for helping me,

I know that I am much stronger than when I started,

I know my family and I will be ok,

For everyone who tried to help me, you have good heart,

May you always walk with the sunshine overhead,

Catch you later

-H


----------



## optimistvik

Thanx & may god bless you


Ideal Gifts for all Ocassion: BobbleHead


----------



## outinthecold

I guess I'm back,

The X had two days of meltdowns.

I gotta talk about it to somebody.

It amazes me how everything she said she would not do she is doing.

Blaming me in front of the kids

Yelling and screaming

Now she says."I want you ..." fill in the blank to do something

I just try and get along.

It all has to do with money and the kids.

She never thought about needing money, she could have finished college four(4) times over by now.

For the past 20 years, she spent all of our money on the house and destroyed it.

She spent the rest of the money on what I don't know.

As part of the settlement, I paid all of her past credit cards and loans. It totaled about $24,000. I'm in debt.

She is scott free, can you imagine zero(0) debt. I can't

I'm over the hump, finally 

I know you guys out there are looking for this.

Believe me it is coming for you, be patient, work on yourself, the hurt will stop, the feelings will leave you.

I never thought it would, but it has.


----------



## outinthecold

Tell you what to do

Get a large white poster board

Get multi-colored markers, big ones

Hang it up somewhere

Everyday, put a mark on it

When you feel like a dot, put a dot, when you feel like a stroke slap that poster board with a stroke.

Whatever you feel that day.

When the poster board is covered with color,

You are good, you will be where I am now.

No feelings, no hurt, already moved on.

Try it, it will work for you before you know it


----------



## Blonddeee

I know you asked for it the other day, but I have a joke-
So this polar bear walks into a bar tells the bartender he'd like a rum...(pause)..and coke.
The bartender ask- what's with the pause?
The bear says- I don't know- I've always had them...
ha ha ha


----------



## outinthecold

Thanks L M, you are a pal


----------



## carmaenforcer

Loving Husband said:


> Its time to disconnect.. Start doing things you enjoy. It's the only way to move forward. Sitting in the past is doing no good for you. It only hurts more.


:iagree:

It's great that you are a deep feeling person, a man with a romantic heart and capacity to love but it is also important to learn the art of tuning out. As *Loving Husband* stated, start doing things that you enjoy, hobbies, hang out with friends but leave the drama with the person that causes it for you. 

When your with your friends, it's ok to talk about things that are bothering you once or twice but you do not want to alienate your self by overly dwelling on it. 

When My ex-wife and I divorced, I was devastated, the closest I have ever come to trying to take my own life, but instead I lay in bed all day, lost like 70lbs over 2 1/2 almost 3 months while just laying there I guess because I wasn't eating much.
Finally a girl cousin of mine came to my folks house where I was staying and kidnapped me and took me to live with this other cousin of mine that's all reclusive, there I just hung out and he let me talk for hours about all the drama I had just been through, but then my cousin, probably sick of hearing it, made me a deal, lift weights with him and he'd let me keep talking about my ex. Needless to say I kept talking and got in great shape in the process, it also changed my attitude because it was kind of funny that my ex-wife eventually saw me because we had a baby daughter together and fell in lust with me again, but by then I was already with someone else.

Now, 16 years later I have been through another break up of a 10 year relationship (Not married), I met someone else and married them and have a beautiful little boy.

My current Wife and I have love each other but we have some serious issues too. I hate her guts sometimes and she tries to do things that should bother me, but I'm almost 40 years old now and I am a different man, more able to step back and asses the situation.
I've finally learned how to "disconnect" too, I used to always stress and get angry but now I ignore, play a video game, watch a movie or a show I missed on-line, play with the baby, watch football FINALLY.
This year I've even taken up a hobby that is going to have me hiking the great out doors and my Wife is not interested in it because she says it's nerd stuff, so she wont be there. :smthumbup:


----------



## outinthecold

A little awkward today, the ex-sister-in-laws came over to see the kids.

All four of them, they looked sad when they saw me.

I greeted them as I always did, hug kiss on the cheek,

I was ok with it, they seemed about to cry.

It was a 24 year ride to now.

Whew, she is gone for the weekend and I'm in training Monday thru Wednesday in Troy Michigan

It is going to be fun being by myself for a few days.

I'm gonna party down at the Residence Inn, yeah, ha


----------



## carmaenforcer

I hate hearing how the kids get affected by these drama's us adult men and women have with each other.
A friend of mine is going through a break up, not divorce yet but going that way I think. He has two children 9 and 7 or something like that and it's just so sad that their Mom couldn't get past her "needs" long enough to let them have a home with a Mom and Dad in it. 

Some will argue that it's equally damaging if not more so for the kids to be in a house hold with two people that don't love each other but this woman broke up their relationship because she got all hot and bothered with a married ex-boyfriend from high school on Facebook. Selfish stuff that should have been left behind when children came into the picture.

There is a special place in hell for these people I hope.


----------



## outinthecold

Dear: carmaenforcer

We are just human beings, afterall

We want what the heart wants, 

no rhyme or reason

no consequence too great

no hurt too small

no one left in a mighty wake

no child left un-scared


----------



## carmaenforcer

You are right *outinthecold* we are just human beings, no one is perfect. I've hurt someone in pursuit of my own desires and I regret it now. She is still a good friend and our individual lives have flourished in some aspects. She is Chinese and would always tell me that her grandma would tell her growing up, that there is no right or wrong, there just is. I would always argue that there where lines between right and wrong (since I was raise christian) but now as an older adult, I can see that, even though there are lines drawn trying to separate, right from wrong, good and bad, they ultimately don't mean anything because we are all good and bad, right and wrong, just depends who's judging you.


----------



## outinthecold

There are some clear lines of right and wrong but not when it comes to the heart.

Through all the heart ache, I blame no one

I look to no one for the answers, because no one has them

I have a real optimistic outlook on life now, something my X gave me as a parting gift

So many people have reached out to me at work, old friends, new friends, and people I never knew had so much pain themselves.

As I said, my story is simple, I did not have what she needed, she left, get over it.

This forum has helped me move on, i've made friends here, I met someone here who is very special.

I never thought I would, I enjoy my phone conversations with her and one of these days I am going to visit her. My beautiful new friend.

Getting to know someone by the sound of their voice and hearing her thoughts is the ultimate blind date.

I look forward to talking with her everyday.

The heart has no rules, let it be written

Good luck


----------



## outinthecold

Well just spent part of the day with her watching the kids do soccer, 

she has gained some serious weight

saw her in the sunshine with her belly

and her hair has gotten really weird

she use to have beautiful naturally curly hair

now its all frizzy like a straitened afro

Not being critical, just observant


----------



## zengoddess

outinthecold said:


> There are some clear lines of right and wrong but not when it comes to the heart.
> 
> Through all the heart ache, I blame no one
> 
> I look to no one for the answers, because no one has them
> 
> I have a real optimistic outlook on life now, something my X gave me as a parting gift
> 
> So many people have reached out to me at work, old friends, new friends, and people I never knew had so much pain themselves.
> 
> As I said, my story is simple, I did not have what she needed, she left, get over it.
> 
> This forum has helped me move on, i've made friends here, I met someone here who is very special.
> 
> I never thought I would, I enjoy my phone conversations with her and one of these days I am going to visit her. My beautiful new friend.
> 
> Getting to know someone by the sound of their voice and hearing her thoughts is the ultimate blind date.
> 
> I look forward to talking with her everyday.
> 
> The heart has no rules, let it be written
> 
> Good luck


Wow, congrats. I'm happy for you. Divorce is hell, but you know you're not alone. I've been reading so many depressing posts the last 2 days and realize how lucky I am compared to others.

Relationship: damned if you have one, damned if you don't.:slap:


----------



## outinthecold

Dear: zengoddess

Thank You For The Encouragement

I know, like they say, "Man can get along with any woman so long as he is not in love with them"


----------



## outinthecold

WooooHoooooo, let the pigeons be free.


----------



## zengoddess

outinthecold said:


> Dear: zengoddess
> 
> Thank You For The Encouragement
> 
> I know, like they say, "Man can get along with any woman so long as he is not in love with them"


Do you think so? Is that why we have issues, cause he's (was) in love with me?

I was insecure throughout our marriage, he rarely complimented me and was very critical of me. And he loved the attentions he got from women online and his exes and our sex life sucked big time cause he loved virtual sex and masturbating to porn. I always wondered if he was really attracted to me.

But then I am told, it's him and his low self-esteem is the problem. He sucked the self-esteem out of me too in the process. Now I'm working on it with the help of my coach.

At this point I am okay either way, if he's back it's good, if he's not I know I can find a better and more compatible partner who appreciates and deserves me. No more longing from me. I'm done feeling miserable and pathetic.


----------



## outinthecold

Dear zengoddess

Good for you, you feel about yourself what you want to.

Someone can hurt you only because you let them.

Remember to Love Yourself

Be Kind to Yourself

Forgive Yourself

Appreciate Yourself

Be Good to Yourself

You will be Ok


----------



## outinthecold

I met him this past Saturday (my X's boyfriend)

What a dweeb.

He is definitely not me.

No ambition

No education

Not athletic

Not successful

Both his sons still live with him 24 and 27 and one of them is married and living at home.

The main point, I had absolutely no feelings about it

I'm free

Free at last ,free at last 

My heart rate never went up.

No sorrow

I was thinking the whole time (because I went to actually pick up the little one) where can I get something to eat for the 7 year old.


----------



## outinthecold

I had a weird conversation with the X the other day, 

She told me that her boyfriend's X wife said as a parting statement, "You cheat and liar" before she left the house.

She said what I was thinking but I kept my mouth shut.

Nothing to be gained for the children by calling their mother out.

Yeah, it is hard to be the stand up guy sometimes,

Sometimes I just want to be an animal and let her have it, but I can't, I won't, no going there.

Gotta think of the kids


----------



## dcrim

Hi, Hugh! Glad things are "ok" for you! Sorry I've been MIA...just getting myself together.


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## outinthecold

Dave, GOOD to hear from you man

I was semi-worried their for a little bit

I remember you said you like taking a hiatis now and then so I thought I would wait a while before calling you.

-H


----------



## outinthecold

Woman, who can understand them

Certainly not me.

I give up, I'm gonna hide in Tibet


----------



## outinthecold

Sunday was interesting,

So she pressed me about coming back into the home and for me to leave until our divorce was final (december)

I said I asked everyone I knew about this and everyone said it was a bad idea.

Nearly everyone, even the kids said the same thing.

So she had a break down at the soccer fields, said our marriage was a mistake, a mistake or almost a mistake.

Yeah, well I didn't hold back, I said how would you be if you didn't have Tim? (thats the guy she took up with)? She said she would be an emotional wreck.

Well I said, there you go, when are you going to stand on your own? You went from one dependency to another. Sure this guy can give you all the attention you want. He left his wife, he has two grown sons (24,27) living at home and one of them is married. 

He has a low stress unprofessional job, sure he can give you all the attention you want.

I on the other hand, have four kids to take care of, a professional job which doesn't leave me when I leave the office, and now an X wife.

I reminded her again, she traded one(1) problem for four(4) life-long problems.

She was not satisfied with my answer, she decided to ask the kids over dinner. The youngest said of course I want you to move back in, she's seven(7). The 13 year old said, No, I want to get use to you being gone. The 16 year old let her have it, she said,"It's all your fault, you left, you caused everything". The oldest of course had a neutral voice, she said it would not be a good idea.

And that was the end of the conversation. I know all the answers must have hurt her something fierce.

Nothing I can do, I can't affect anything except myself and the girls.

She left me, for another, she formed an emotional bond and moved in that direction.

Now she has consequences that she never thought she would face.

She thinks like a lot of people that divorce is ok and that kids are resilient.

Well, if not for me, she would have married someone then divorced, married someone again then divorced just like the rest of her four(4) sisters. 

All because her stinkin father didn't every love them. He just had kids.


----------



## Corpuswife

You are strong man for you and your kids. 

She will pay and is paying for her choices. Her kids don't really want her back in...what would she do bring the OM??? Probably. I dont think they'd like that.

My parents divorced when I was 15. My mom left (same scenario as your W) and dad was uninvolved to say the least. I lived with him for a fews months then went on to friends. Anyway...

30 years later and my mom is still paying the price....she's apologized and I've forgiven her ...saying "the past is the past." However, she can't forgive herself. She doesn't have a relationship with my brother...he isn't bonded to her anymore. He was 6 when she left and only visited her. 

Soooo. Your W just doesn't know what she's done (fully) but wait another year or two. She'l truly realize the lifelong consequences. She looks like she's feeling it now but wait for the longterm effects.


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## outinthecold

Dear Corpuswife

My X speaks to me as though she knows all sees all.

One of the most irritating things about her.

She is now on the other grass, as you said, she has no idea what she gave up when she left.

The girls are hurt, lifetime of pain and sorrow.

She knows all and sees all that she thought she was saving them from seeing arguments.

She just disguised it as her out, but I know she emotionally bonded with another guy, moved in that direction.

Now the wake of consequences are following her.

Thanks *Corpus*, it just confirms everything about what I already knew.


----------



## outinthecold

I gotta say, if I live a 100 years I will never understand women.

Never, will I

My new motto in life

Well, volunteering starts soon at the hospital

Many new people to meet

New friendships to start


----------



## outinthecold

I just watched the movie "Couples Retreat", not a good movie to watch when you are getting divorced.

Too much of a happy ending


----------



## outinthecold

Another meltdown another day,

Now she wants me to buy her a house,

Just money?


----------



## dobo

She wants what? She is a nutter. Tell her that's Tim's job now.


----------



## outinthecold

Yes DOBO, it is one of the most irritating things about her.

She speaks with authority, everything she says is the fact.

Everything she knows is all truth.

Every emotion should be lived to capacity.

Thats why on our annual anniversary of 24 years we had a fight about the ugly color paint she chose that the kids did not like either.

I didn't defend her against the kids, she got mad, she formed an emotional bond at work. One month later, she wanted a separation, one month after that she told me she wanted to divorce, then one month after that she told me she wanted to pursue a relationship with the Special Friend Emotional Attachment, she moved out, first night she was in her new apartment she slept with him, maybe it was sooner, don't really know for sure, I do know about the first night because she told me.

What I have done is, volunteer at the local hospital, lost six(6) inches in my waist, can do 27 pull-ups now, working on my six(6) pack abs, and playing soccer as often as I can.

I just gotta keep going.


----------



## pollyanna03

hi Glad to come here.
True Blood Seasons 1-2 DVD
dvdcollection sale
Entourage Seasons 1-6
How I Met Your Mother Seasons


----------



## dobo

How nice of her to share that little tidbit with you. :-(

So this affair of hers only took a month to form? Or did it begin before that?


----------



## outinthecold

Well DOBO

I gotta think it had to start as a friendship at work while he was getting his divorce sometime around February of this year.

By March (when we had our fight), she turned to him for emotional support, our anniversary week.

I know this because she told me she said, "I betrayed you, I have an emotional attachment". At the time I didn't know what an emotional attachment was and how destructive it could be.

By April, it was, "I'm conflicted", which my office wife told me was code for choosing between you and another man.

By May, we were separated, by June she was looking for a new place to live, by July/August she moved out. First couple of days in her new place, she jumped into bed with him. I know because we were looking at newly developed photos of the kids at Sams Club, sitting side by side (little did I know) and among the photos was a guy shaving with jeans on, unbuttoned, no shirt and belt hanging out. 

She said I wasn't suppose to see that.

That was the end for me.

I got up, told her to have a nice life, went outside and fell against the back of the van for about a half hour or so, I think.

24 years with the same woman, no one else, it is hard everyday.

But, gotta keep peddling, gotta keep walking.

Kids need me.


----------



## dobo

Office wife? I know only one other guy who uses terms like this... 

Anyhow, she fell for him hard then. Those kind of out of control emotions are impossible to fight.

Your kids need you and you need you. You're going to come out of this better and stronger. And you'll find someone who gets you and you'll never let what happened before happen again. So just take your time choosing her, whomever she turns out to be. Because you are going to want her to be worth keeping.


----------



## outinthecold

The oldest let her have it yesterday, told her to "Go To Hell", of course when my X complained about being spoken to that way, my oldest says, "What are you going to do about it, leave the family again"

It was like a scene from "Stepmom" only the roles were reversed, I became the mom.

I really don't want my X back, but I would somehow like my whole family back.

Nothing I can do except keep sailing.


----------



## outinthecold

I've sort of lost my direction

I go thru the motions everyday

still working out

Watching what I eat

It seems somewhat pointless

I still talk to my friends, they seem pointless too

My friend asked me the other day what I was doing for Christmas, I joked about looking at some rope and a nearby tree.

Of course, she didn't think it was funny.

Not funny, just about the point I was trying to make

Everything seems blah

Like I got no where to go and no emotion to express

My girls are still great, lovely they are

Just everything seems so blah


----------



## knortoh

Hey OITC just wanted to say hi - sorry you are still doing it so tough ....wish I could say more to you -


----------



## outinthecold

Dear knortoh

It is enough that people are reading it.

Maybe I can show people the progression of what they can expect.

Help them in some way

I know I will eventually move to some point where I am settled and feeling good.

Maybe when my house is paid off (7 years) and I can finally migrate to California or Washington State where I really want to go

Thank you for reading and your nice words

It is Friday, a good day here in Michigan


----------



## knortoh

OITC I am far away in Brisbane Australia - it is 10.51 pm - warm - beautiful weather - my H is 10 minutes down the road with my kids - don't get it - this world is one weird place


----------



## outinthecold

Dear knortoh

Are you visiting Australia?

Live there?

Don't understand the "weird" part and your H being 10 minutes down the road?

Australia is on the top of my list as to places I want to visit, one of these days.


----------



## knortoh

it is my home - it is weird that my H is 10 minutes down the road because he is so near and yet so far ...please visit anytime bring all your girls .......


----------



## outinthecold

How awesome it is to live there 

It is freaky weather here in States, Michigan, cold one day, snow then, bingo let's go play golf outside.

Back to your husband?

Are you estranged from him?

If you are, I'm sorry to hear that 

Your kids ok?

You ok?


----------



## knortoh

OITC yep it's a great place to live - no complaints there - short story with my h - 
he turned 40 Oct lats year - told me he hasn't loved me for 10 years - left 
came back in Feb - left again in June -
has had an infatuation with younger work colleague - swears nothing is happening - who knows? I kind of believe him - he's pretty messed up and scared of f****Ing things up with someone else...
he's basically a good guy - we've had good relationship - he's just convinced that I am not 'the' one and never have been - he has worked up a story with his counsellor that the only reason he has stayed with me is because he didn't want to hurt me ! (how noble)...
he is an emotional baby - really - that plain - that simple - not at all a bad person - but is looking for 'true love' - 
I sound cynical because I am - and he HATES this - 
who knows why he stil gives a sh**????
He has had every sort of love you can have with me - but I guess he feels something 'different' woth OW - at present it is still all in imaginary phase - unrequitted so very potent -

our boys are 11 and 9 

they scratch their heads as well - honestly we have had a great life - the three of us were blindsided - even my H says he wan't planning to leave - it just hit him ??? at the time he kept on saying how shocked he was ...teh second time he left because he said he felt 'really bad' ??? he was so infatuated with her when he was here - however he said when he left (the first time he was infatuated with me...) 

I think it is MLC even though he's a bit young for it....

I have had a pretty bad year but I am seeing some light - finally I understand it is all his sh** i have had plenty of time to reflect on our relationship and although I know it takes two - I hold no responsibility for the break up - his choice - I was happy - I love him - loved my family - 

if he was unhappy all those years he never told me - 

nothing you can do if your spouse is hiding things from you 

so we must go on OITC - 
plan a trip out here - it is warm and sunny and that has got to make you feel better!


----------



## outinthecold

I feel for you

I know about the mid-life crisis

When I turned 40 it hit me hard, but it was all introspective for me.

Never did I think it ever had anything to do with my wife, err my X wife now.

For me it was all, stuff I had not done, places I had not visited, that book I had not written.

I guess the MLC shows up differently for different people.

continued ...


----------



## knortoh

yep - the longer it goes on the more I think it is MLC - and in his case I am the focus - he'll get through it - but it will be a long time - he's 'slow'...like all of us I have to detach and let him do it his way....


----------



## outinthecold

Gotta tell you the latest,

Well I read about Chris Evert and Greg Norman the other day. I had no idea they left each other's long time spouses for each other and that Greg was best friends with Chris Evert's ex husband.

Now of course, 18 months later, the big DIVORCE.

What a tangled web we weave, has sounds of Farrah and Ryan and six million dollar man.

In the article, Chris Evert's ex husband said, "Somebody is happy in a divorce"

I thought about this roughly at the same time my X came at me again about the two middle kids rejecting her and blaming her for the divorce. She said she wants them back.

So I hit her up with "Somebody's happy in a divorce", so she said, "Happy, I'm not happy, I'm miserable"

So that of course I had to say, "Hmmm you were not happy before, and you are not happy now"

You traded 1 problem with me for 4 lifelong problems with the kids.

So, X, if you ever read this, I gotta ask, "When are you going to be happy"

Cliche, met a guy at work, fell in love, left the whole family for new love, lived happy ever after, NOT

I think she is living the phrase, "The Grass Is Not Greener On The Other Side"


----------



## beninneedofhelp

Wow i no what you feel like from every part of my heart i no exactly what you feel like, about the pain i dont no what to tell you for me every day apart it gets worse for me.. I dont no how to say this but mine sometimes seems to give little hints of confusion or second guessing. Biggest reason i can think of for her to do that with me is i have made some significant changes i have heard the phrase its a little to late so many times i could just scream but all i can say is if you truely love the person with all your heart then you will find a way to make them changes for yourself and in doing so she will see that too and if you truely love her you wont give up or stop trying to help and in time maybe she will give you a last chance thats all im shotting for i no in my heart i dont need another chance if i were to fail this time id have to walk away for her own good but i no inside i wouldnt fail cause i have comitted myself to these changes and new ways in life .. From what i gather from just this short post you probably for years have emotionally abused her belittled her and things of that nature and that actually hurts a women badly worse then you or i may have ever thought possible best thing i can say is give her time and space to heal something i am not doing to good at myself right now , and seek counceling to change them old habits cause im sure like it is for me they stemmed from your upbringing on what you seen on a day to day basis and thats hard to one accept and 2 change and keep them changed show her you care and love her that much that there isnt nothing you wouldnt do to change that .. I will pray for you i no i do my share of it everynight myself , but we are both probably in for a long road that isnt a sure thing.. for me i sit here every day reading self help books reading on advise and working with new tools to handle how i act talk and most importantly handle conflict of any type, i work and come home and repeat and from time to time i call or leave roses and such let your romantic side show her that you love her but be warned you got to make these changes for yourself and keep them there and let that side show everyday if she did give you that chance , but also its never a sure thing it will be enough either i have been fighting for my marriage now for over 2 months and it had gotten better then took a huge noise dive and now shows signs of some hope but not much but i am not giving up cause i no i have lost more then just my wife but my best friend in life and my kids as well at this time , her and i click on a level that is hard to explain yet she is so upset with me she loves me but right now hates me more type of thing and that takes time to get over from what im told .. For us guys we may get made and then have some time together the next day or sooner even have a couple laughs and walla we are good to go for a women they are more soft hearted in nature and need time to heal so just hang on and if you love her that much you will do what ever it takes and show her how much she really means to you..
thats all i can really say to you and i wish you the best and pray that you just keep your head up and not let yourself down on atleast making that effort to try .. You got to do it for yourself and you got to do it most importantly for her if you truely love her that much


----------



## beninneedofhelp

outinthecold said:


> Gotta tell you the latest,
> 
> Well I read about Chris Evert and Greg Norman the other day. I had no idea they left each other's long time spouses for each other and that Greg was best friends with Chris Evert's ex husband.
> 
> Now of course, 18 months later, the big DIVORCE.
> 
> What a tangled web we weave, has sounds of Farrah and Ryan and six million dollar man.
> 
> In the article, Chris Evert's ex husband said, "Somebody is happy in a divorce"
> 
> I thought about this roughly at the same time my X came at me again about the two middle kids rejecting her and blaming her for the divorce. She said she wants them back.
> 
> So I hit her up with "Somebody's happy in a divorce", so she said, "Happy, I'm not happy, I'm miserable"
> 
> So that of course I had to say, "Hmmm you were not happy before, and you are not happy now"
> 
> You traded 1 problem with me for 4 lifelong problems with the kids.
> 
> So, X, if you ever read this, I gotta ask, "When are you going to be happy"
> 
> Cliche, met a guy at work, fell in love, left the whole family for new love, lived happy ever after, NOT
> 
> I think she is living the phrase, "The Grass Is Not Greener On The Other Side"


The grass is rarely greener on the other side most people forget that there isnt much difference in love and being in love the major difference is i believe this when you love someone you care a lot about them when your in love with someone you care for them but there is still them electric sparks of excitement in the air all the time


----------



## outinthecold

Dear beninneedofhelp

I thank you for reading and replying.

From your post, I feel my whole story eludes you?

The synopsis is, I tried, I tried, I tried, she does not want me anymore, she found another man at work, she is living un-intended consequences of leaving her family because in her own words, "I choose me". 

She did not say she chose the welfare of the kids. She said herself.

The kids know it, the two middle ones reject her now. I try as far as I can go with the kids because I know they need their mother.

I just think they will come back to her until they are adults and have lived a little. They will not forgive her right now.


----------



## outinthecold

Basically, my X thought she could just replace me, with some pain that everyone would go thru.

However, she never thought the middle kids would reject her and her new guy.


----------



## noideato20

Out in the cold. I would like to read your story. Could you tell me where its posted?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Maryjun

Oh as it is a lot of pain and sufferings in this world. I was couple of days ago thrown with husband by him me has betrayed with other woman. And the world has failed for me at all I do not know as to take itself in hands and to continue to live



buy cheap cigarettes


----------



## outinthecold

The post has become long and lengthy. I am going to attempt to tell my story in a shortened synopsis.

My story, it started last March during the week of my 24th anniversary with my now X. She and I met 24 years ago on March 8th late in the evening. My roommates and I were driving back from an evening of gambling at the local harness racing establishment, Northville Downs. I believe we won about $20 between the four of us and headed home for a night of pizza and sports watching. No such things as movie rentals back then.

My roommate is a good looking blonde polish boy. We drove next to another car, a station wagon to be specific. There were three(3) girls in the car and the girl driving was winking at my roommate. So Al, my roommate rolled down the window and yelled, “Hey you girls want to go drinking with us?” She yelled back, “Yeah!!!” so Al said, “Follow us”.

The girls came back to our dorm with us. We found out they were in high school. So scared we were. They ran around made a bunch of noise and the RA wanted to kick them out since we were in a single males dorm. My X was in one of the rooms down the hall and was typing (yes on a typewriter) a happy birthday message to the guy who lived in the room.

I sat next to her, it was something in the way she smiled at me, something in her eyes. I didn’t know it at the time but I was in love with her from that moment on. She left her full name in the birthday message. Then she was gone, kicked out of the dorm along with her friends. I only knew what city she was from, so it took me the next two weeks to find her in the phone book. I called all the last names in her area and finally located her mother.

We talked for hours on the phone at first, then we started dating, then we broke up a month later. I was headed to Army training for ROTC for the entire summer. When I came back at the end of the summer I called her to see how she was doing. She was crying in a closet in her house because of a party that had gone bad. She said, “I love you” on the phone. Not what I expected. I thought she would be dating a nice guy and tell me everything was going great. We made plans to see each other, she enrolled in the same college I was attending and we have not been apart until now.

Four children later, a stint on active duty as an Army officer, working as a software/technology guy. We are a month from being divorced.

What can I say, we had our problems. Money, arguments pick one they are the same as everyone else.

She believed we were different somehow. We were worse then others, not meant for each other.

She masks what happened by just saying, “our marriage is over”. Funny part about that is, she didn’t leave until she met this guy at work. In her own words, “He gave me the support I needed to leave”. 

I ask a few questions, “Why did you not leave until now? Why did it take another man to support you to leave? Why are you involved with him now?”. No answer.

From our anniversary of March 8th this past year, two months pass, she wants to separate, she moves out in June, she starts to date him immediately upon moving in to her apartment. I find out because I see a half dressed picture of him mixed in among the pictures of our children (I cried for what seems like years). I made her tell the children, I cannot lie to them, she said, “we are not out in the open”, of course I ask why not? What are you hiding or who are you hiding from?

The two middle kids reject her now after finding out about the other guy, especially the older middle child. She blames her for everything. She wants nothing to do with her.

I no longer look at her; I stare at the floor when I speak to her now. I feel shame.

So we are about a few weeks from being divorced.

I’ve detached emotionally. It took me a long time. Something that I never thought would happen. The hurt is mostly gone. Sometimes I relapse. Don’t think I managed to do this alone. Friends I never thought I had, office people reached out to me telling me their stories of hurt and resolve. Online places like this one and all the wonderful people reaching out to me to give me a hand.

My story, it has not ended yet, I take it day by day.


----------



## outinthecold

All she wants now is money.

Can you believe it?

She wants part of my Christmas bonus.

Yippee, not next year. she will get squat.


----------



## Sven

Wow, cold....I'm sorry for your loss. It's a shame someone throws away a life built with a family.

You're going to give her part of your bonus?

Anyway, hang in there.


----------



## Sven

outinthecold said:


> Basically, my X thought she could just replace me, with some pain that everyone would go thru.


My wife tried that on me. At one point she actually planned for me to move out and have the other guy move in....just swap men in the house.

I thought about doing it...moving to London and starting over. But then I remembered my entire goal in life was to build THIS family and I will not be turning it over to somebody else.

Faced with being the one to leave, she decided to stay (and keep cheating on me).

Your wife is leaving the children too?


----------



## outinthecold

Dear Sven

Leaving the children with me she did, the little one is the only one that is giving her the time of day.

The oldest, she can understand intellectually. 

She can speak to her mother, she can even have affection with her mother. 

It is not like before. 

I think for the children there will always be something held back. 

Some amount of mistrust. 

Yes trust, they have lost trust in their mother.

I can see it now in them, they have misgivings about anything she has to say to them. 

Whatever it is, planned outing (she is always late), stuff she is going to help them get (she forgets), time spent with them (misses half the time, she is with her boyfriend, too tired, school, work etc.) and the list goes on.

The X decided this in a few words as she was leaving, "I choose me". 

At the time, I really did not know the impact of this simple statement, but what it also means is, "I don't choose you girls, my children".

So she took up with a guy and forgot about her daughters.

Powerful this drug is, Looking for Love at any cost.

So now I've been reduced from a husband to an ATM.

I love my girls. 

Afterall, 90% of parenting is just being there.

I am.

Everyday.


----------



## SurpriseMyself

Dear Cold,

I am glad to read how far you have come from your early posts where you were so overcome by all of this. I think you have more road to travel, but in the end, it will all be ok. You have to make it ok. For you and your girls. That may one day include a new love in your life. All the best to you.


----------



## outinthecold

Dear ebp123

Thanks so much for the kind words.

I strive to be someone the girls can look up to.


----------



## Sven

How can she have the audacity to want some of your bonus money? That stuns me. Give her nothing. Is she paying child support?


----------



## outinthecold

Dear Sven

It is crazy I know, that she wants some of my bonus money. 

But, I have to say, I don't want the kids to do without because of their mother.

The money strain on my X is tremendous. She was use to spending freely, going on trips. Buying stuff for her family. 

I've heard this from my little one, "You make good money". I know I didn't say that and no one else would say that. So it has to be the X talking about it with her new boyfriend.

I do not want to add any additional stress to an already stressful holiday coming up.

I'll give her some of it. 

Better to be bigger than a smaller person no matter how much it hurt before.

I've got a long way to go in life, hopefully this starts me off on the right foot.


----------



## outinthecold

I have a court date, December 29th

So comes to an end my marriage on that date.

For those of you reading this saga, I don't know what the future holds.

I've learned so many things along this journey.

Everything you do, everything you want has a price.

Can you pay it?

I've learned that there is always someone else.

I've learned lies are like chewing gum, watch where you spit, you may step on it your way back.

I've also learned that we are just human beings.

So many frailties, so many hurts.

We all carry them around, ready to unleash onto someone.

I've also learned that honesty, morals, integrity, and strength of character will see you thru. 

Stay steadfast in these truths, take the high road, you will never have any reason to look back.

For others, there will always be something gaining on them.


----------



## outinthecold

First Christmas apart, I have the kids Christmas Eve, they go to the X's Christmas day.

What a life for the kids.


----------



## knortoh

It sucks


----------



## outinthecold

I'm divorced today, so my saga comes to an end.

A new beginning, who knows what my future is.


----------



## Hurtssomuch

I just started going through what you are going through, I could use some help. My husband does not now if he still wants to be with me. My situation is the same I did not treat him very good and took him for granted. Thought he was going to be here forever. Now he is not sure what he wants. He wants me to give him time. But it hurts so much. I feel physically sick. Any advise would be appreciated. Thanks


----------



## outinthecold

Dear Hurtssomuch

I would say if there is no one else, then you have a good shot at staying together.

So long as he is not deciding between you and someone else, it is a simple choice. He maybe questioning everything but as long as he does not use the word "conflicted" then you are ok.

Give him some space, no one likes pressure.

I say this generally because I do not know you, so get in shape, dress up like when you were dating, look and smell good all the time. Make yourself as attractive as possible. Fight for him. Let him know you care about him and you want him. You have to do things not just talk, saying I love you a thousand times is not the same thing as just once filling up his gas tank for him or take his clothes to be dry cleaned, anything that he currently does for himself, you do for him. But just do it, don't make a big deal out of letting him know you did it. He will know.

Getting him a drink, serve him but be not subservient to him. There is a difference.

Be nice to him, as you said, you have not in the past few years. 

Men want simple things, respect, love, ego boost now and then and of course sex.

Picture in your head being with him in the future, look down the road, so the mind can conceive the body can do.


----------



## Hurtssomuch

Thank you

I will do the things you mentioned. I never really thought about that. I just did not want to push him because if I push him he may just leave. He has told me there is noone else and I do believe him. It is nice to have other people to talk to about this. 

He wants to have a trial separation but we live in the same house. I am not sure if I can do that. We are suppose to talk again today, but it hurts so much when we talk because to me it just seems we are getting closer to the end of our relationship. 

Anyother advise would be greatly appreciated.


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## outinthecold

Dear Hurtssomuch

How exactly do you have a trial separation in the same house?

Answer, you can't

He needs to move out if he is the one who needs a separation.

You can't have reconciliation without some away time. 

He needs to know if he is going to miss you, miss the kids, miss his house or miss his life.

How are you financially? 

Can you make it without him around?

Once this process starts, it has to run to the end. 

Otherwise, there will always be a question in everybody's mind and it will rear up again.

There is a road of hurt ahead for both of you and the children.

Feel it, cry, cry some more, let it go over you then let go of it.

Your feelings will become like waves against a wall, keep the wall short in your mind so the feelings will go over you. The bigger you build the wall and ignore your feelings the bigger the fall you will have later when the wall breaks.

Abuse every friend you have or strangers or co-workers, keep it positive never cast him in a bad light. When or if you reconcile these people will have a hard time relating to him in the future. 

But a big caviat, never turn towards another man for support, use all the women you know. You could risk forming an emotional bond with a man while you pour out your heart and that would be the end of your marriage.

Always stop short of showing any negative emotion when the kids are around. Wait for when you are alone or with friends. Keep yourself on the high road, no negative comments about their father, never. Keep your morals, your character, keep who you are on the high road. Then you have nothing to regret later how ever it works out.

At this point, there is really no choice.

Keep a journal, electronic like here, or paper. 

People let things go if they write it down.

Most of all, give him space, he needs to be out of the house. No separation in the house, otherwise you become the maid.

Keep the house, dishes, laundry and he gets to play with the kids and then leave anytime he wants.

Usually in life, the woman is the first to fall in love so the saying goes, first in, first out, last in, last out.

As long as you guys do not have the big problems like, addiction, abuse (verbal or physical), infidelity, illegal things, and money, although I never money was actually a problem with marriage but it can be a catalyst for divorce.

When he is out of the house, don't call him, if you do keep it short like for scheduling the kids. Don't talk about feelings on the phone, too easy to hang up. No pressure.

Don't ever use sex, let me repeat, don't ever use sex to get him back. It will never work.

Find some place to scream where other people will not hear you. For me I did it in the car all the time. Scream until you can't talk, cry, go to Cosco or Sam's and get big boxes of lotion tissue, it will come in handy. Go there, scream, rage, yell, beat things like sticks, throw rocks, whatever. It will help.

No alcohol, never, it will not help.

The last bit of advice I can give, it will get better, no matter how it goes or how dark it gets, you reconcile, you divorce. Somewhere down the road it will be better. 

I promise. I never thought so at the time, but it is better for me, life changes, maybe he is not forever, maybe you are not forever for him. There will be something down the road. Even if you are religious or not, this phrase of somewhere God opens a window applies anyway or Fate opens a window.

Be good to yourself, I'll be here for you one way or another.


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## Hurtssomuch

Thank you

It really helps to have someone that has been through this.

He has decided not to have the trial separation that we will leave things the way they are and we will talk about it again next weekend. In the mean time he still needs time.

I am so confused. When he said that we will not do the separation right now and we will talk next weekend he said not to read anything into it he hasn't decided anything yet.

He does not want to give me false hope. He wants me to prepare for the worse in case he does leave.

He says he does not want to give me the impression that he is staying or leaving. He does not want me to read anything into what he is doing so he says that is why is spending some time with me and some time without me at home. 

All he says to me is he needs TIME I am starting to really hate that word.

I have so many things going through my head. I want to have hope that he is going to stay but I also have to prepare myself that he is going to leave.

I want to give him the trial separation hoping he will miss me, the kids, the house and his life. But it is going to be very hard on me knowing he is out there doing who knows what.

The problem with the trial separation is he says he has no place to go. He won't go to his parents house and he really doesn't have any close friends he can stay with. I think if he had someplace to stay we would have the trial separation.

I told him I could go to my parents house but he does not want me to do that. 

Yesterday when we talked about the trial separation he is the one that wanted to give me a day or two to think about the trial separation and let him know but then today he says lets just leave things the way they are and will talk again next weekend.

I have been off over the Christmas holidays but on Monday it is back to work back to school for the kids and back to my regular life so I am not sure how things are going to go.

Financially it is going to be hard but he did say he will help me out as much as he can because he wants me and the kids to stay in the house. He said he does not need very much money to live. He wants to take care of us.

He also said that if he does leave he will still come over and cut the grass and snowblow the driveway. 

I told him I don't want that if he is going to leave then he has to totally leave. It would be way to confusing for me and twice as hard. Maybe as time goes on I will be okay with him coming over and doing those things but it will definately take time.

I hope I can take this a day at a time but I may be writing here alot and need some support.

I feel better just writing this down and having someone here to listen. If I have to do this everyday to get me through this I will.

Till next time.


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## outinthecold

Dear Hurtssomuch

Whatever your religious convictions are, whatever you believe is after her or before here. 

There is only here right now.

You have to take care of yourself.

You have to be strong for your sake and your kids sake.

I know it is hard, crying alone, man, I've been there.

Crying yourself to sleep, I know that trip. You wake up the next morning so exhausted and eyes puffy surrounded by tissue.

Life is hard, but not all the time. It doesn't rain all the time.

Hang in there, it does get better, it really does.


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## outinthecold

Dear Hurtssomuch

Some thoughts

He has never experienced separation, I know it will hurt him immensely, especially if he is close to the kids. There will be sounds he will not hear, smells he has been accustomed to that he will not smell, a daily routine he will not have, being alone that will be a big one, just simple everyday things he will not have from now on in a separation.

The kids maybe the single deciding factor for him, but remember he is leaving or staying with you, not the kids.

You are so right about the lawn and snow-blowing, he needs to leave and let you grieve if that is where it is going.

He can't be your best friend anymore, he is only the children's father from now on. You would have to think of him that way also if it goes down that way.


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## Hurtssomuch

outinthecold

My H really loves his kids that is what is going to hurt the most. I also know he does not like to be alone. At one time he did not like to be alone but recently he is starting to deal with it and says it is not so bad. 

I am thinking about seeing a counselor for myself. I think it is a good idea one way or the other.

We will see what happens.


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## outinthecold

Dear Hurtssomuch

I know this can be very difficult to do, as I went/going thru it.

Concentrating on the NOW, right now, focus every bit of energy you have on what you are doing right now.

The reason is, I know your mind is wondering around, thinking about what he said, "???" or when he said what?.

This will drive you crazy.

Try and focus your energy and your concentration on mundane things you do all the time but never think about it.

I want you to look at your fingers as you type, notice everything as you drive, focus on your kids, look at them, really look at them and the journey you are taking with them. 

This will really help keep your mind from wondering around and pulling you down. Try, try some more and keep trying. 

You will find it really amazing how much you miss in everyday interaction with the kids. How they tilt their head, the strands of their hair, the sound of their laughter, the size of their shoes etc. I could go on.

Most importantly, concentrate on the journey. 

It is not from Point A to Point B you are trying to get to, 
A ---):]:3:c):>=]8)=)C:---- B, 

it is all the stuff 

"---):]:3:c):>=]8)=)C:----" 

inbetween that we all may miss.

Exercise the hell out of yourself, make yourself naturally tired by working out, stick to a regiment, my friend Kath in Australia swims, I personally do the Tabata and I got P90X for my daughter for Christmas, I've been working on that.

If you are not into hard exercise there is: Yoga, running club, aerobics, belly dance, Karate, Kung Fu, Boxing anything and everything is available.

You can do this, no matter the outcome, this advice I am dishing out is good forever.


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## outinthecold

A friend of mine told me that it was not shame I felt when looking at my X. 

Which I have not done since last August. 

Yes, it is difficult to do, but I have not looked at my X since last August.

I usually look down or at the kids or somewhere else, I avoid any kind of facial direct looking of any kind.

My friend told me it was because we no longer had any kind of connection. 

That looking at her I would look for that since I was the one that was left.

Maybe someday but not now, not today.

Maybe when I'm really old and my eye sight is really bad.

I know there are many men who leave their wives, I know what it is like.

Horrible feeling it is, being the one that is left to take care of the kids, take of the mess, buying tampons (something new for me) and bras, managing the household on my own. 

No one to talk to, rather no female person you can say those thoughts only couples talk about.

I'll just stick to my guy friends for now. 

I know now when those guys in the movies buy a hooker to just talk to and lay in bed with their arms around each other in a deep hug.

I could go for some of that.


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## John1970

Mate, I know what you're feeling. My wife has just started an affair. She says she doesn't want to leave me - or me to leave her - but she doesn't want to leave the other guy either!

I'm not sure it better or worse than your case.

I've decided to start a blog. Check it out there's only two posts, but I'll try to add more AS IT HAPPENS plus some thoughts.

Take care.

My blog: meshehim


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## outinthecold

Next month, the week of March 8th, it will have been one year since the beginning of the end of my marriage.

What an anniversary, not too many people can say it began and ended the same week.

So is life


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## outinthecold

The anniversary of the end, one year ago my marriage ended.


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## Deejo

What's better a year later?

I'm not suggesting life is rosy - but something, one thing at least has to be _better than it was_.

Don't chase despair.


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## tia41

Sorry to hear what you are going through. I recently found out that my husband was talking with an other woman and he wanted to see her and I know how you feel. I know it hurts, and the pain does not go away but be strong for your kids. You don't want them to see you like that. I have kids too and I think of them before anyone else. You children need you more than you can imagine and the drinking and jumping off that you talking about you have to stop thinking like that. This is a good site so you can get a lot of support from people that are in the same situation so keep on posting your thoughts it feels good after you read all the comments and advice that other give.


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## outinthecold

Yes some things are better

Divorced, but a new beginning, 

I'm concentrating on my four beautiful daughters

Amazing they are

I will be out of debt in about 5 years, own my house in 7

Things are looking up.

Just a little short of cash from time to time, spousal support payments.

Just a note about the X, she is paying for her decision every day. The two middle girls want nothing to do with her. They blame her for everything.

Not healthy for the girls but it is where they are in life.

I on the other hand, have a great relationship with all of my girls.

Love them everyday, they live with me, see them everyday. Get to be in their company everyday.


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## Deejo

Five to ten years from now, this whole thing ...? It's going to look very different.


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## outinthecold

It probably is going to look quite different 5 years from now.

Just like it did 6 months ago, and last year around now.

I've survived.

Life is OK.

A little lonely now and then.

I'm busy opening a restaurant, my mother's life long dream.

It is OK.

It will be OK.

As for my daughters, the two middle ones are MAD MAD MAD.

They do not acknowledge their mother.

On the scale of gaining verses loosing. 

The X has lost a lot. 

Not my concern anymore. 

I just have to get the girls thru the rest of their lives.


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## turnera

Do you have the girls in counseling?


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## outinthecold

Well one year, one month

Low on budget, did not think this would happen

The girls need so much stuff

Sometimes it is really difficult

The most bizzare thing is, one would think after being in a family for 24 years that someone in that family would have called to see how the girls are, I am.

Maybe they never liked me?

Maybe it is difficult for them?

Seems like somebody would have called to just say how's it going?

Even out of town friends we have known forever not a one called.

I don't expect answers, I'm just venting


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## turnera

Try writing them letters, as in 'the girls miss you and would love to hear from you guys'. Sometimes all a person needs to break over an uncomfortable situation is for you to take the first step. You never know.


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## outinthecold

Life goes on, I keep looking for that rainbow, open window something for me.

One of these days I'll find it


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## outinthecold

Kindness

I have to remember that as often as possible

To ARK as often as possible


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## lovbeenadad

Aloha
As i read through the threads it brought back a lot of memories i have forgotten many rears ago!Our situations were different in many ways but the feelings seem so similar.

We were together and married for 9 years.I can give you what the process was like for me.The first year was very similar to what you are going through a lot of ups and downs with a lot of self improvement and some days full of tears.I sought counseling for myself on how to help move on and look to the future and to get answers to why i was so afraid to be alone and why i stayed for so long.
Years 2-3 i spent a lot of time reading self help books,getting out sociably and discovering what i like-IE sports,camping and traveling.I tried dating after about the 2nd year but true fully i wasn't ready and still had issues i need to work on.I will be honest the first few years were shaky and awkward but is does become easier with time!
Years 4-5 i became comfortable living alone and was feeling great about the person i became.I started to date again and met some nice people but not quite the one!I was a apart of my life that i was content and didn't have the feeling of needing someone in my life, i had made a lot of great friends and my life was fulfilling.
Well then it happened-it was September 19,1999 .It was just another day at work (a large hospital that i have been working in since 1988)I saw this woman who seemed to have a spark in her eyes that told me "wow she seems like a person enjoying life"I struck up a conversation with her and found out she was from a different department who was covering for another person.
We just hit it off from the beginning and haven't been apart a day since.We were married July 21 of 2001,we have 2 young kids together and i can honestly say i never thought life could be this way!

Just to add a little info-yes i have 2 kids from my previous marriage and they have adjusted well and we have a strong relationship.When people say that time heals all wounds-I CAN TELL YOU THIS IS SO TRUE!!! To be honest i don't even remember who my ex is or what it was like living with her-if it wasn't for the kids she would feel just like passing a stranger on the street.
Good things do happen to good people!!


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## Susan2010

Hi there. I haven't read all of your thread but in the beginning of my reading, I sure hated that you were in so much pain. Now here on the last few pages, I'm glad you are well even though there are some struggles. I'm glad you have survived and that your girls are adjusting.

If I may make a heartfelt request of you, I wish to ask that you take one additional and very important step to aid in your daughters' healing. You wrote several times how much the two middle girls are so angry with their mother. You also wrote they won't even talk to her. I need to ask that you forget your own pain for a brief time and think only of them. Think only of their future happiness. Think only of their mental and emotional well-being.

You see, those things are up to you, and you can do a lot to help them heal completely and repair their relationship with their mother......because they truly, truly NEED to have a relationship with their mother. I think that is up to you, and I think it only fair that you do it. I say it's only fair, but I don't mean you owe their mother anything. I mean you owe it to your daughters. When you put yourself aside and when any feelings of regret or resentment that you have are pushed aside in order to concentrate only on your girls, I have no doubt you will agree with me and will do the right thing.

What I'm asking will be easy for you to do and to keep doing, but allowing their mother back into their hearts will not be easy, and that is the reason you will have to keep doing it. What you have to do is talk to your daughters and let them know their mother loves them and did not do anything with the intention of hurting them. Please convince your girls that their mother's decision to divorce had nothing to do with them, that it is adult business they may be too young to understand.

I remember when you took the blame for her wanting a divorce all on yourself. Would you like me to remind you?...........



outinthecold said:


> Obvious reason why she left me, I was selfish, a jerk. 24 years she endured this from me.


You took full responsibility for the breakup. Even though I happen to think that, just like it takes both partners to make a marriage work, it also takes both to make it fail. So, I think it's great that you accepted the part you played, but I also think it is entirely unfair that you allow your wife to take full blame in your daughters' hearts. If they were made to understand she is not totally at fault, it will be difficult for them to remain so angry with her. For their own sakes; for the sake of their future happiness; for the sake of their mental and emotional well-being, they need to forgive their mother. And they need to know it is okay to re-establish their relationship with her because, again, they really need to have a relationship with her.

You don't have to say anything nice about their mother if you don't wish to. I can understand it might still be too painful for you to do that, but please resolve that you won't say anything bad about their mother either. And, please resolve that it is completely up to you to help your daughters heal.....and that you will.


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## lovbeenadad

Aloha
I have to agree with Susan about your daughters.I had left out a lot in my post to make it brief, but i did take my kids to counseling and help them deal with the situation.I can tell you that taking the high road regardless of your pain will comeback
may fold in the future!I never brought up our relationship to the kids ,never played them against her.I always tried to help my ex out when she needed intervention from me with the kids.I can tell you that it wasn't always easy or perfect but i can honestly say i tried to the best of my ability at the time.

The best thing you can do as a father is be a roll model in life!I know its hard to deal with when your feeling pain and fear yourself ,but there are times when you can push it aside for the time being and help you daughters through there pain.


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## outinthecold

Good news is the first of many monthly debts have finally started to drop off.

Lets see, her 

Sears card, no longer have to pay that one, $84 a month
Chase card, $300 a month last month this month, no more payments
Car insurance, no longer have to pay for her new car, $110 a month.
Student bill, $132 a month

Still have her spousal payments and my 401K to pay back, $1,100 per month for another 4 years.

*"Deejo"* you are absolutely right, 4 years from now, a new dawn.

I think I'm gonna buy a Porsche, well may just a newer truck


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## outinthecold

*Dear Susan2010*

You are absolutely right, I never never never say anything negative to the girls about their mother. In fact I'm almost mute about the woman.

I do encourage them to spend time with her and anytime she has extra she wants to spend with the 8 year old Sophie, I never argue about it.

The girls have been cooperating with her more, less confrontational, blame stuff.

Everyone seems to be settling down to having the two households.

Counseling is another issue, we'll try again when the dust settles a little more.

Thank you *Susan2010* for your words


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## outinthecold

*Dear lovbeenadad*

I hear what you say, it has already started down that path. 

It is difficult for me to remember having a grown woman in the house.

The space is just not occupied that way.

The downstairs bathroom has nothing in it that reminds me of a woman, just girl stuff, little girl stuff.

My mind, says the X looks like someone I use to know but memories of her good or bad are just not what they use to be.

It could also be that I'm getting older.

Life is ok, even being alone is ok.

People here have helped me so much, I don't think I could have made it without the encouragement.

You are right, time heals all wounds.

Hate to quote Dr. Phil, but he says on his website that it will seem like something you did once.

No crying, anymore, I can't muster up the emotion for it.

I still cry at movies (shssssss don't tell anyone)

I will carry on.

It seems kind of strange, I changed all of my assets in case I die over to my 2nd oldest daughter. I know she will take care of her sisters. The oldest is just too immature to handle it. 

Always thought it would go to a wife.

Well, looking forward to tomorrow.

For anyone reading this going thru the same thing.

There is a tomorrow, keep trying, 

Sometimes stuff just happens for a reason you can't see just yet.

It's like Mounds or Almost Joy, sometimes you feel like a nut and sometimes you don't

Thank you for the encouragement


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## lovbeenadad

Aloha
Glad things are going well!I must admit you are progressing a lot faster then i did at the time.
I Can look back and reflect and see the life changes that have happened and honestly say that it was the best thing that ever happened to me!I dint think i would have grown into the person lam today and wouldn't have felt the experience that i feel today.

As time goes by you grow and find your own path,life becomes enjoyable and there are so many amazing experiences that will follow.I understand when you say the ex is a different person then you remember-even this diminishes.I can honestly say that
i don't have any ill feelings for my ex,i truly wish her happiness in her life because she is still the mother of my children.

I have my own path in life and still try to put the effort into being a better person,father and husband.


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## outinthecold

*Dear lovbeenadad*

Believe me, a year ago, I was down and out, headed for the deep freeze. 

So many people came to my aid, co-workers, life long friends, people who were just acquaintances are now my closest bestest friends. 

And of course the people on this site, so much encouragement, so much love for me.

I did meet someone on this site that we became close enough to be Facebook friends, she lived far away, we spoke a few dozen times a day. She was even planning on coming to visit me but for some reason or other she backed away. I do miss her voice, her excitement, and most of all her friendship.

She helped me a great deal, I hope to pay it forward to someone else who needs help one of these days.

I thank you for your words.

I'll keep going, looking after those precious gifts I have.


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## Anna11

OITC, I saw myself in you, been in that situation I almost gave up 2 suicide attempt if not my kids I done long time, that was two and half years ago, I should have seen this site before my husband came back when the woman cheated on him despite her being married at that time and cheating on her husband to be with my husband, oh well karma che cheated on my husband and her husband divorced her when their affair came out in public. I am into relationship now though im not divorce yet, (for some reason im scared of divorce) found this very good and loving man, my husband tried to come back to me but my feelings is not the same. i suffered enough from him and despite being married to him for 18 yrs and 5 yrs as BF

I admire you, and not all guys can do what you're doing for your girls, my BF is almost the same like you ...Good luck and will continue reading your post.


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## outinthecold

*Dear Anna11*

I thank you for your words.

Cheating, Karma. I was asked once, "Why do you want her back". 

I really could not answer, she already cheated on me once when we were young.

Again, well shame on me right, I'm a fool.

I know we are just human beings, we all carry hurt, some hurt from childhood that robs us of a good state of mind. 

The problem is this type of hurt is usually done to us by a parent. Yes, parents are responsible all the time even after death.

The X-wife has become her father, her father cheated on her mother repeatedly, then finally leaving her for another younger woman who he eventually married and is still married to today.

So the X-Wife's saga continues, no one knows where this will end.

For me though, there can never be any relationship with her. Not even as friends. I can't associate myself with someone so lacking on morals and character. The divorce, the cheating was all about her. Her needs over anyone else's. 

Being a father is glorious. I can think of nothing better to do in life. I love every minute of it. My legacy.

With the love of my children in mind, I must keep everything I do, everything I hold dear in the brightest light of day. Never can I stray from a path of honor, character, love and dignity.

I try everyday.

Since you are parent, your decisions will be true, keep your children in mind at all times, they are always watching, always listening and always pretending to be you.

Please keep in touch, let me help if I can


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## Anna11

Hi OITC, good morning to you. It makes me realize how impotant it is to be physically and mentally okay during situation like this. my work is very stressful (i work in engineering industry for oil company) and requires full attention. talking to me about what parents hav done to us we caarry until we get older. My h family is very popular in cheating in fact my father in law, had kids from other woman and my MIL took care of these kids, my h brother starting having affair when he 29 and stopped at age 60, in my culture women are supposed to be patient and wait until h starighten up and go back to his family, In my case i didn't wait after 1 1/2 yr hearing from my h move on and have a bf, i did it and then he came back. that confuses my kids and hurt me so bad. family is very important to me, will i stay in my marraige or move on with my life? i don't know


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## outinthecold

*Dear Anna11*

I say to you that everyday that goes by is a chance for your husband to honor you.

I say to you that everyday that goes by is a chance to show how much love he feels for you.

I say to you that everyday that goes by is a chance for him to be a man for you.

I say to you that everyday that goes by is a chance for him to show his responsibilities as a father.

I say to you that everyday that goes by is a chance for him to guide his children with selfless carrying.


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## Anna11

thank you OITC, everyday is struggle for although it been 2 years and 7 months th pain seems not going away. Everyday just thinking of taking my life if not for my kids I am gone long time. I believe that there is always good things that will happen out from bad. and I believe God has better plan for me and my kids. my only hope is for my kids to grow responsible and finisg school and this is already a fulfillment for me. Everyday is a chance for him , but at this time that chance is gone I am moving forward with my life and close the chapter with him. 
Wish you the best and your kids and know that they will never forget all your sacrifices for them. You'll be rewarded with love and respect from them ..goodluck to both of us


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## outinthecold

*Dear Anna11*


As I am fond of my metaphors, 

You can't chop off an arm starting at the fingers


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## outinthecold

I was talking to a soccer buddy of mine the other day, I had no idea he was divorced.

We've only been soccer friends on opposite teams. 

We got to talking and he told me he was divorced 3 years. His X-wife pays him child support and alimony.

He is friends with her. Neither one of them have really moved on, emotionally. Although he told me she ended the marriage by having a short affair so she could not go back.

He told me for her, it was her mother that put a deep hurt into her since childhood.

I accept that we are human, the part I don't except is what we do to our children. Each layer of hurt pushed onto the next generation.

I do not know how my children will turn out. Their relationship with their mother will always be in contention. How she ended the marriage, they will always have questions, they will never be satisfied with any answer she gives. Always this dark cloud lingering around.

The eventually is forgiveness, she will ask for it, they will have to decide for themselves if, when they can forgive her.

Until then, they will not be able to move on from their hurt.

I do my best to provide support. They hold nothing against me, they simply love me as their father everyday.


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## dsfg_lover_001

well i understand how you feel.But you need to know why she left you and be better.People say that they wanna change all the time,but they couldnt really do it,why?because of the habits.So figure out yourself,and let your wife notice that.anyway thanks for sharing.


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## outinthecold

I wish people would read what happened offering advice.


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## outinthecold

I'm up, I'm opening a restaurant. I'm leaving part of my life behind.


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## Brewster 59

Wow you are definetly a good man, I hope your restaurant does very well. Not sure how it plays into your wanting to move. 

I am curious you say that a lot of what happened was your fault because you were a jerk. So have you changed that much or am I an asshead. There is no way in hell I would have ever given this woman any financial support, I would have thought you were a great guy just letting her slide on not paying child support. 

I personally dont think you ever were a jerk, how does a jerk change to the point of making his kids his #1 focus in life. How does a jerk pay a cheating wife ailmoney while supporting 4 kids and take all of her debt as his own. 

I think you may have been a bit hard on yourself and going through the guilt stage, but a jerk does not do these kind of things.

Personally, I would have supported the kids and would have wanted them but I would not have given the cheating X one dime. She made that bed so I would have let her sleep in it. I so dont see you as being a jerk.


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## outinthecold

Dear Brewster 59

Thank you so much for your words.

The restaurant is my mother's dream, she handed me all the details. I have lots of help where I work being surrounded by Architects and Engineers. Now being well over 70 and aproaching 80 she wants to leave my sister something to hold on to. My sister has always had emotional problems, they have become more severe since her father died 6 years ago. She is very functional and has worked in the restaurant industry for the last 15 years. No worries. I'm looking forward to food anytime I want it and a cool place to hang out. Someday when my 8 year old becomes more self-sufficient, I'll move then or maybe I'll have become the King of a chain. Anyway, something entirely new to take on. 

As far as being a jerk, well I maybe was a little harsh on myself. Looking back at my post, I no longer feel the emotion attached to it. It has been over a year since she moved out. She has paid a heavy price for what she wants.

Lately, she has been demanding respect from her children. That goes two ways, plus she does realize that she actually wants them to have respect for her not just show it. Entirely different base.

I thank you for your words, I'll keep on going


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## turnera

Good luck with your restaurant!


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## jcrawford

NEVER give up as hard as she pushes you away! Be the man you needed to be all along!


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## outinthecold

I'm a few days from opening the restaurant, I'm still here.

It has been well over a year and a half.

Life is ok, plenty to keep me busy.

Funny thing, I'm not super religious, I'm not religious at all but in my desperation I did ask God for some help. 

Coincidence or not, the help did arrive.

I'm all in this restaurant to help everyone, my mother, my sister, my kids. It has been a journey we undertook together.

You guys be the judge.

Life somehow takes twists and I'm on a major coaster in the road.


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## turnera

Good to hear!


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## outinthecold

Restaurant opens on Tuesday, I'm in Chicago in a training session for work. AHHHHHH

Last minute things.


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## Pam

I have just read through your thread, you have been a remarkable father and man. I just don't understand one thing. Why are you paying her spousal support? Paying off her debts should have been more than sufficient, you have the children.


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## outinthecold

well, a year since the divorce. There is life after. I almost feel like she did not ever exist sometimes. The woman I use to know is long gone.


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## turnera

Are you in a better place now?


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## outinthecold

I am in a better place.

I met a nice woman at my high school reunion last fall.

She is a beautiful brunette Doctor from Atlanta, milky skin.

She actually picked me up. I look pretty good, nothing to do except work out.

We're trying to figure out logistics for seeing each other.

She lives in a million dollar house, who would have thunk it.


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## MEM2020

Out - you deserve a kind woman after what you have been through. Good luck.




outinthecold said:


> I am in a better place.
> 
> I met a nice woman at my high school reunion last fall.
> 
> She is a beautiful brunette Doctor from Atlanta, milky skin.
> 
> She actually picked me up. I look pretty good, nothing to do except work out.
> 
> We're trying to figure out logistics for seeing each other.
> 
> She lives in a million dollar house, who would have thunk it.


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## outinthecold

Just as an update, that didn't work out. The Doctor wound up being a woman of multiple interests.

I was almost a notch on her bed post. 

She called them "friends". It was by accident she let slip about one of them, then of course I started asking some questions and a few questions later found that she travelled around at conventions/symposiums and fooled around with married unfaithful types.

A woman with many entitlements and spinning plates of men.

Now I'm on to keeping my bearings clear.

Any for Tough Mudder - Probably the Toughest Event on the Planet

They are coming to Michigan on April 15, 2012

Started my training.


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## outinthecold

It's been 2 years since she left, I feel nothing towards her. 

I dread the calls.

I find it particularly irritating when I receive a text from the X. 

I view my texts as from family or close friends of which she is neither.

I keep it to a minimum, schedules and money. 

I still keep my head down, hard not to notice all the weight she's gained.

Oh yeah, karma or whatever you would want to call it, her boyfriend lost his job where they worked together.

Now she supports him partially.

As my oldest put it, "now they can be losers together"


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## morituri

Don't respond. Doing so only validates her delusional belief that you are there for her.


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## outinthecold

Strange how time makes things rather dull.


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## outinthecold

So much drama just a few short years ago, now, nothing.

If you think you are at the end of your rope, believe me, life does go on.

Things get better and as the song goes, only kindness matters.

Be kind to yourself and others.

Being mean will meet you with a terrible fate.


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## Why Not Be Happy?

I hope all is working out well for you!


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## wondering0821

OUTINTHECOLD: Thank you for the "hope" this offers. I have gone through your posts. So very much that resonants! Its been 6 months now since my wife of 20 years left me & our 2 wonderful daughters to be with her girlfriend.
A wonderful family?! She opts to leave?! ... no longer compatiable ... needs freedom and space ... to explore and experience. Yes, its been very painful and hard ... your posts describe the agony so well. And show that there is hope to come out of it all ...
Thanks for continuing with your posts ... for sharing your experiences and insights .... it helps me try to set my own course. Still hard, still painful .. reading your story has been helpful.


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## marriageconseling

*Marriage Counseling Cary NC*

Hi, I Think You need to talk with Your wife and explain to her that How much bad u feeling now without her. You need to Give feel her that u realize Your mistake but if she still not listen You than in that case u need to one good Marriage Counselor who meet Your wife on the behalf of You and sought out Your problem and Make again Your life with Happy Married life.

Marriage Counseling Cary NC


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## outinthecold

Hard to believe but 3 years have passed, really? Funny I look at my Join Date over to the left, Apr 2009. From break-up to move out to divorce. 

Well the two older daughters have moved out, the oldest has still a year left in college, took some time off to be with her boyfriend. The 2nd in line went off last year to discover herself, volunteer work, then more volunteer work off to Peru, then in the fall she will become a Gator. The 3rd still lives with me and will for a while about to get her drivers license and the 4th has to endure the life of divorce as a back pack kid.


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## outinthecold

Emotionally, I'm all gone, none left, also angar-less if there is such a hyphenated word. I'm quoting Gotye "Somebody that I used to know". Yes, she has become that. I still don't look at her, I talk at the ground or in the air or none at all. Strange things have happened though, whether it be fate or karma you pick or some would say just life happens. The X's grandmother recently died, it would be sad but she was a bigot and raised two selfish boys one of which is my X-father-in-law.


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## outinthecold

To top things off, the X-father-in-law recently was diagnosed with all sorts of cancer and a brain tumor. He's about to croak, sorry about being so callous but he's an a s s h o l e, a really big one. He had affairs, then left my X-mother-in-law for a younger model of which he had the nerve to marry and bring into their family. Life is life, trying to gleam some meaning out of it is preposterous


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## outinthecold

So the X has followed the path of her father, as I recall she cheated on me before we were married while dating, once that I know of while we were married and was probably cheating with her now boyfriend as she was exiting. I read once that "Somebody is happy in a divorce". I think it's me in this case because I've come to the part where I DON'T want people to know she is the X-Wife. She has never looked so bad, her and her boyfriend have probably put on about 60 pounds each. Maybe a slight exaggeration but no lie about the massive weight gain. She hasn't looked this big since 7-8 months along in a pregnancy and without the nice breast enhancements and the glow of being with child, she's just dull looking and basically fat. Did I mention he's still UN-employed and balding now. They make a nice couple.


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## outinthecold

As for me, I'm in great shape. Almost have my six-pack back. I've been participating in races throughout the last year, Warrior Dash, ToughMudder some local stuff 5K, 10K et al. I'm trying to get to 1000 burpees in a row, I'm up to 300. I do this every other day. Plus I'm been doing "Insanity" workout. That's a killer. I'm emotionally OK. Being sometimes alone in the house is strange, but ok. Never realised how big the house actually is with just me in it. Sometimes the teen is out with her friends and the younger one is over with her mother. I'm the opposite of lonely. I could be, I have all the circumstances of loneliness but I'm NOT. I see friends when I want, I play soccer all the time, go to the bar and ogle the bar maids when they lean over. I will have oodles of money here shortly 2 years to go until I stop paying the X, 2 years after that and I'll own my house. I figure I can buy a Porsche and fly to Hawaii every weekend, something to look forward too, but in reality I'll have tuition bills for the remaining two. What a good father I am. I'll probably rent out the house by then and get something smaller. That's all the news for now.


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## outinthecold

Remember guys and gals, if you are in distress about a long term relationship breaking up, the blame rests 50/50 sometimes more like 30/70. We all have choice, we make the right one sometimes and vice versa. It is up to each of us to make ourselves happy. There is always more grass over the hedge, greener, browner, less of it, but it is a choice. Can't make people make the right choice. Look at me, I thought the end of the world was coming to my house, but I'm ok and you will be also. Let it take it's course in your life, feel everything, bottle up nothing, talk your friends to death. You will be OK


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## turnera

Great update.


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## Paulination

You sound like you really have it together, good for you. My first marriage broke up after my ex cheated on me and basically didn't want to be marrried to me. Today she is about 150 lbs heavier then when we were together and her husband is also over weight and half bald. I went on to earn my degree and marry a women 10 years younger then me. Just like you, it seemed so bleak way back when but today, I wouldn't trade it for anything.


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## DaKarmaTrain!

Good stuff...read these posts months ago...nice update


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## KayEffe

outinthecold said:


> Remember guys and gals, if you are in distress about a long term relationship breaking up, the blame rests 50/50 sometimes more like 30/70. We all have choice, we make the right one sometimes and vice versa. It is up to each of us to make ourselves happy. There is always more grass over the hedge, greener, browner, less of it, but it is a choice. Can't make people make the right choice. Look at me, I thought the end of the world was coming to my house, but I'm ok and you will be also. Let it take it's course in your life, feel everything, bottle up nothing, talk your friends to death. You will be OK


Thank you so very much for these words!! Oh how I need them in my life right now to help me cope with my anxiety and insecurities! I'm saving this quote and will refer to it whenever my anxiety starts getting the best of me. Thank you, thank you, thank you a million times over!!

And all the best to you in your new, post-divorce life!


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## outinthecold

Remember folks, the best revenge is NO revenge, as Mr. Spock said once quoting Confucius when departing on a path of Revenge, first dig two graves. 

Just live a good life, try all the time to do what is right, for yourself and your kids.


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## ladybird

outinthecold said:


> I've known my wife since she was 17, we've had hard times.
> 
> We've had really good times.
> 
> She says I don't accept her, I don't accept what she says, she just wants to be heard.
> 
> I did all of these things.
> 
> We have four(4) children.
> 
> *She wants to date a person she works with, right now.*
> 
> We can't afford to divorce or even separate.
> 
> So I'm stuck, my two oldest are so angry at her.
> 
> She is about as stubborn as they come.
> 
> Her words, "I'm so gone from this relationship, I don't love you anymore"
> 
> It really is my fault, I don't know what to do.


The bold part is why she left in the first place.


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## outinthecold

I met a new lady, maybe it is some cycle I'm on, but she's involved, how is it that ladies want to go out with you and say they have a great time and yet extend the stiff arm with the "I'm seeing someone once in a while". 

I wanna laugh, but I take it strait in the kisser. Her body language was all to herself, first clue right, she never touched me except for the initial hug, she tells me how interesting I am and how fun I am to be with and on and on and she sends me an email today telling me what a great time she had and to have a great week. 

She wants to have a talk, well I'm gonna say, "if you have a chance at love you should take it, forget me, I'm just new to the neighbourhood, trying to make friends"

Only thing is she's HOT, really HOT, I'm mean bang'n HOT, really. We did exercise outdoors in a park and she wore the tiniest little pair of shorts and running top. Yes, bang'n HOT.

I should probably forget her, I think I'm going to just be ok being friends if we are even friends.

Hey, there is always her friends right, smok'in hot girls have smok'in hot friends right?

Let you guys know later on.


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## Why Not Be Happy?

don't give up on her just yet-----be cool. see what happens.
and the smokin' hot friends are a great plan B.
remember....smoking hot is great....but an average looking lady might end up being your real princess.


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## outinthecold

Funny thing about time, it passes just like the seasons, I've met a rather pretty hot nurse to take care of me but then on the other hand I've also met a really young Phd student @30 years of age to also take care of me. I feel like that bee, pollinating far off plants. Yes, I do feel rather young, or these ladies make me feel young. Of course, I feel like a dog because I know them and they don't know each other. I have to get it while the gett'in is good, just like a feast or famine.


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## doureallycare2

I’m wondering about your "healing" if you feel it has to feast or famine. Why can’t it be moderation? Why can’t it be monogamy? I’m still going through the divorce process and honestly can’t see myself with anyone if not ever again then at least for a very long time, but I would think true healing would be acceptance of being alone or waiting for that person that you can be willing to open yourself up for again. I tell those that want to set me up, I wouldn’t want to date me right now, and until I know that I’m complete in myself and ok being independent or alone I don’t want a relationship. Does that make sense? Do both women know your dating someone else? Hopefully you’re not causing hurt.


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## outinthecold

doureallycare2, did you read my whole thread from when I first started this journey?

doureallycare2, being right in the middle of a divorce, nobody is in their right mind, especially if one is the leav-ee instead of the leav-er.

doureallycare2, I hear your words, talk to me again or read my thread again when your divorce is over a year behind you.

It was more than 3 1/2 years the X left me. For some reason, un-explained but right around the 2 year mark a male person needs companionship as explained to me by a dear friend who went thru my situation, although he was married for much longer. A male person has needs, companionship, friendship, sex, love, talking, lots and lots of intimate talking. 

I'm just dating, I'll never, never, never, ever get married again. I have my children and my freedom plus I want all of my stuff and cash to go to my children. Get married, Haaaaaaa!!, it has happened to to many people I know, new step-parent gets it all and the children are left with nothing.

Remember some famous person said,"somebody is happy in a divorce"

Talk to me again when your head is clear.


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## BUSYBEES

I don't know how I came across your post but when I read the title it's exactly what I am feeling I mostly skimmed through it mainly reading what you had to say and was glad about the happy ending 

I'm glad it won't hurt forever I've been crying for the last four hours after falling asleep crying last night and I have no idea how I'm going to make it through this work week. I'm trying to force myself out of bed I can't function I feel so sad.

We don't have children but maybe it's just the way he left and moved on like nothing like not to long ago telling me he loved me then the next thing he gets a Facebook account for networking purposes.

We brought his mother in to our home when he couldn't find a place for her, he had me move all my roommates out who we're helping me make mortgage then he gets his own place after having me alter my life.

He always made me feel bad for not being able to give him kids and the person he moved on with is a grandmother her grown kids have kids. My parents adored him and his mother treated them like family after he left my father reached out to him he asked me to inform my father we were no longer together.

But right now it hurts so bad :-(


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## Honeybee2

I think a drink or two always helps alleviate the intensity of heartbreak. At least in the short term when it feels like its going to kill you.


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## BUSYBEES

I had half a bottle of wine last night it put me to sleep just woke up hungover :-/ 

I went to Ross hoping a little therapeutic shopping would help tears kept coming down my face I tried hard not to think about it my parents called want m to head over for dinner but my eyes are swollen and I don't feel like socializing. I have no appetite I juSt want to sleep. How am I going to function at work tomorrow?


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## turnera

Think about what you would have accepted BEFORE you met him. Why accept it now? He's just a guy. And obviously one who will trash you for his own good.


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## jane1213

Busybee I am very sorry to hear you are going through this. Just take it one day at a time. Take total care of yourself. Practice mindfulness if you know how to apply it. Keep saying nice affirmations or prayers. Go cry and sleep . Take a day off work or the whole week. I think you should go out and socialise . It keeps your mind off the pain. But do not talk about this with people. I found it intensify the pain. Take one day at a time .


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## Chaparral

So how is the restaurant? 

Did any of your daughters ever take to the OM at all?

Did your ex marry him?


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## outinthecold

I know it’s been a long long time since I’ve posted anything. I want people to know there is life after divorce. The hurt inevitably goes away. If someone is there to help you break the emotional bond all the better but it is difficult to do it yourself. After that, I was free of her influences. FREE at last. It’s been 5 years coming up on 6 since she left.

Since then, I’ve dated 4 women and I’m currently with a lovely women with whom I met in Mexico purely by accident on my daughter’s spring break trip. We hit it off, it was one of those magical moments when your eyes meet and you know in your head there is something there. She lives about an hour away, which sometimes is a bummer but she is a very well to do widow who also by chance lost her husband 5 years. He left her with a substantial business which she sold to his partner. The best thing about dating a well off woman is she pays half the time when we go out. Bonus. I’m not a kept man by any means. Just nice to have someone equal for a change. We see each other about 2 to 3 times a week which is plenty. At our age, we get finicky about alone time.

It’s all good. Life has finally turned around.


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## outinthecold

The restaurant got sold after two years of operation. Too much work.

The X is getting married to the dope she left me for. He's a handyman now and she got the smallest diamond I have ever seen. In fact, I couldn't make out the rock on the ring even at close range.

Daughters, they plotted at first on how to off him but now they just ignore any reference to the dude.


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## Chaparral

I'm glad you posted. Others will read this and be inspired. You can tell people things will be fine but seeing is believing.


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## LongWalk

Grew up in your town. Also went to U of M. Must have been to a lot of the same places.

Your ex must be very confused by her decline, not just the economic aspects, but the entire transformation. She lost a lot of the love and affection of your children. She blocks this out of her mind as much as she can. She let her health go. Whatever hot sex they had when cheating has probably long ceased to happen. Above all the freedom she thought she was gaining never came to much.


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## outinthecold

Hard to believe it's been almost 14 years since I got divorced. My youngest is now 18 years old, almost out of high school due to COVID. So a lot of things have happened, my oldest got married at a tropical destination wedding, so I had to endure 10 days with the X but my daughter forbad her to bring her husband (cheater man), #2 is working on her Masters at FSU, #3 is graduating from MSU and my youngest is on her way to college. I've dated quite a few women, adult women, right now I'm single, by the way, it's great being single. My own money, my time, just me, my dog and golf. Governor just opened up golf in my state, so I'm good. How are you people?


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## Blondilocks

Didn't your wife leave you in 2009? It's said time flies when you're having fun - however, that's only 11 years ago. Don't spend too much time on the 19th hole.


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