# Thoughts about password sharing...



## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

I've been married for 10 years to my husband. We have two daughters (mine) in college. I am his third wife, he is my second. The first five years were good overall - but the last five have been pretty tough. My husband had multiple surgeries, the last resulting in some pretty severe nerve damage with chronic pain. He now takes high dosages of narcotics and was unable to return to his profession.

We relocated to another state for my job where I received a pay increase plus we have a lower cost of living to accomodate this change in our family income. 

Over the course of the last few years, he's become a lot less attentive and affection has dwindled to nearly nothing. I had tried talking to him about this but it never changed.

Meanwhile, I became more and more involved in work as a way of compensating for what I was missing at home. I travel pretty frequently (about 2 - 3 times a month). After commiserating with a male colleague who was having similar issues, he and I struck up a friendship (not smart, I know this now) and we began emailing/texting much more frequently and then it turned inappropriate (pictures/content). 

My husband found the activity on my cell phone and needless to say all hell broke loose. He was understandably hurt and upset. As I had not felt this was a good marriage for a while, I wanted to divorce then but he wanted to work things out so we did.

During the working things out phase, we conceived a child who was born a few months ago. During the pregnancy, he raised questions about paternity which I again understood and told him he could test to feel comfortable. (He chose not to). He remains as he was before, not very affectionate and honestly now it's even worse since he's paranoid about everything I do.

For him, it's a dealbreaker unless I give him all passwords/access to email, phone (I have a secured phone for work), and Facebook. I'm just not sure it's reasonable to have this type of constant monitoring so I figured I'd put this out to get some other thoughts, opinions, suggestions.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Well, as someone who was in your husbands shoes, I can tell you that if you want your husband to ever come close to getting over what you did, you need to give him your passwords to everything.

My W did this for me for awhile, and then when she decided it was long enough, and changed them all to hide again, it was very quickly that she went right back to her bad behavior. 

So not only will it make your husband start to heal, but it will hold you accountable as well.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

> For him, it's a dealbreaker unless I give him all passwords/access to email, phone (I have a secured phone for work), and Facebook. I'm just not sure it's reasonable to have this type of constant monitoring so I figured I'd put this out to get some other thoughts, opinions, suggestions.


My thoughts, as a former disloyal spouse myself, is that it's my opinion that being married to someone MEANS that you are intimate with them in every way (mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually), and you are intimate with them ALONE in a way that you are not intimate with anyone else on the planet. I keep it really simple: I give 100% of my affection and loyal to my spouse and no one else. 

To me, the very definition of being intimate with someone MEANS that I am transparently honest with him---and there I envision being "see through" enough so that he can see the True Me. That is to say, I am open and share with him my true thoughts, feelings, interests, everything. I want him to see who I truly am, what I am afraid of, what I struggle with, what I think about things, my opinions, things that hurt me...all of it so that he can see who I truly am, and love me in spite of my warts. In a relationship like that, where I let him SEE me, you can see where it would make sense for me to share everything with him, including passwords to everything, my Facebook, my email, my cell phone, my computer... 

My guess is that when you were talking with the Other Man (OM) that you put a few barriers in place to sort of hide yourself. For example, maybe you password protected your laptop or your cell phone....and you SURELY did not want him to read the emails you were sending back and forth!! So you hid those too. You were hiding the True You. You were showing him a fake face and a false front, and what he's asking you to do is to be transparent and show him. Look at it this way: he can not recover from the betrayal and the marriage (as an entity) can not be reconciled if it is built one partner being "fake." 

So at first he may monitor, that's true--but it's also reasonable because you spent years building trust with him only to turn around as use that trust against him as a weapon. You specifically hid things from him and used "trust me" as a way to hurt him behind his own back. So now, he wants to rebuild the trust by verifying: are you where you told him you'd be? With who you said you'd be with? Doing what you said you'd be doing? When he verifies that your words and your actions MATCH...that builds trust (or in this instance, rebuilds it). When you prevent him from verifying, he can assume that your words do not match your actions and thus you're lying = tearing down the trust. 

So I personally support giving him passwords and access to all. He is your husband--the man you love who used to love you (and probably still does). It is reasonable for him to know about and be involved in every aspect of your life.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

If you were my spouse and you refused to share your passwords, you'd be out on your ass.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

If you want to keep your marriage intact, you should willingly give him all of your computer/cell-phone passwords, and conversely, he should also give you all of his! That would only be fair!

Now as far as paternity of your child is concerned... is there any possible way that it could be the OM's? If there's even a scintilla of a chance, then I'd say that a paternity test is definitely in order!


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> I've been married for 10 years to my husband. We have two daughters (mine) in college. I am his third wife, he is my first. The first five years were good overall - but the last five have been pretty tough. My husband had multiple surgeries, the last resulting in some pretty severe nerve damage with chronic pain. He now takes high dosages of narcotics and was unable to return to his profession.
> 
> We relocated to another state for my job where I received a pay increase plus we have a lower cost of living to accomodate this change in our family income.
> 
> ...


Yea that's pretty standard sweet heart. The tone of your message sounds like you really haven't accepted the full weight of your choices. 

See for your husband to feel that way you were probably in the midst of an EA (emotional Affair). While no you did not sleep with anyone. Emotional Affairs are usually a precursor to Physical Affairs. 
Trust me, if you think you're special because you would never cheat, why would you put your self in a situation that would lead to cheating. Plus by putting yourself in a compromising position emotionally you cheated.

See the real betrayal here is the fact that you are obviously looking outside the marriage for something. Which to your husband shows him that you have the capability of cheating on him. 
So in order to show him that you will not do this again. You should be sending the OM a NC letter that states you will not contact him again, you made a mistake. At which point you show your husband the message and after that message the OM is dead to you. Next you show him that you aren't hiding anything. 
See i have read how far people will go to hide their affairs. So willingly giving up passwords, email accounts, and all that shows him you aren't hiding anything else. 

I found my wife exchanging in appropriate text messages with OM. a year and a half later I was perusing the phone logs and found she had contacted him 8 months afterwards and texted for 15 days straight. 

So if you want this to get better stop worrying about what you think is right, wrong, or whatever. And start figuring out what the hell you can do to heal the knife wound you just put in your husbands heart. I'd suggest you get into marriage counceling and individual counceling tomorrow.

Also if you want help putting the story in perspective, why don't you tell us exactly what was in those text messages. Then tell us what was in the text messages you deleted.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

I agree with Hope. My husband knows ALL of my passwords and is free to access anything he wants, anytime he wants. I have access to all of his. Hey, once you cross over that line, your spouse calls the shots, not you. If you want it to work, you give him the passwords. Period.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

There is definitely no question of paternity but I didn't rule testing out since I wanted him to feel confident. I had not progressed to a PA but would not say that I wouldn't have either. I have no trouble copping to what I had or had not done and the pain that caused nor am I trying to justify that the problems in my marriage were acceptable cause.

I really don't have any solid objections or issues with giving him access to my email and Facebook and gave up my personal cell phone altogether since that was the source used for contact. I don't like the fact that he wants this since I may talk to a friend (not THAT kind of friend) about things that are happening between us.

The issue that I'm stuck on is that I have a phone secured for work. My job gives me some security clearances and access to information which I do not feel comfortable in sharing. He knows this and knows that it's monitored by my company but still does not feel it's appropriate for me not to share that access.

I don't have contact with the OM and to be honest, my husband did see all the text messages and pictures. They were discussions between us of frustration in our marriages, lack of sex and nude photos (both ways). 

I've asked him to find a counselor that he feels comfortable with since I don't want it said that I found someone to 'side with me' but he hasn't done that either.


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## KnK (Oct 15, 2012)

If it's reasonable for women (and IMO it is) It's reasonable for men.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

I have no secrets from my husband and he has none (I think) from me.

We have all passwords. Phones are never locked.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

What do you think abut this kind of marriage:
Honey, it seems the router crashed, can to check my email from your labtop? Remember the password?
Hub, I forgot my cell at home, please find out whether I received a text or VM from a client, remember the pin?
Do you think they have secrets from each other? Is it that bad? Why?

Another question: if (a huge IF) you goal is to regain your husband shattered trust after deceiving him for a while, and asuming (yeah, another huge IF) you have nothing to hide anymore pluss don't pretend to deceive him in the future; why in the hell you are not offering every password in the world? What's your agenda?

You have been proven to be untrustworthy, a liar (hiding the truth is just a different lie) who would backstab him. Is he supossed to trust you because what?

Lurk here for a while, search another infidelity/marriage websites. You will find the first request after infidelity are; NC letter and total transparence in comunication devices.

That's the thing, you know damm well you can eayly find a way to cheat on him. He also knows. So what's the point? Well, you unwillingness to be transparent, your secretiveness (now it's how he will intepret it) is very telling. In your husband shoes I'd take account of it.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Check this thread.
Why do some married couples refuse to "check up" on each other?


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

I can see your point--the only argument that you could possibly make to tell your husband no to accessing your phone--that you have access to confidential information and your work doesn't allow it.

My husband also has confidential information on his phone. Most people do, who have professional jobs. That's part of what it means to have a profession.

You are in a tight spot--so which are you going to choose? Take the risk of losing your job, or losing your husband? It's your choice. I realize you resent being put in that position, but that is a logical consequence of profoundly betraying the person you swore life-long fidelity to. Yes, it's true, you might give him access and even then he'll never regain his trust. But that is the risk that you're being presented with.

None of us means to be mean. We are just speaking the honest truth. Marriage is extremely hard. Life-long fidelity is no cake walk. Few of us realize when we take our vows that yes, our spouses might really become ill and incapacited and that might happen far sooner than we ever expect. Yes, you were neglected by him and that was very wrong. But--how does going outside the marriage for emotional connection solve that problem? Obviously, it does not--it only makes the situation worse, all the way around.

Here is what I posted in the thread that Acabado linked above:



iheartlife said:


> Personally, I really like the Policy of Radical Honesty on the marriagebuilders website (run by the Harleys--Dr. Harley is the author of His Needs / Her Needs and Love Busters; HN/HN is one of the most recommended books on this forum):
> The Policy of Radical Honesty
> 
> emotional honesty:
> ...


Are you two in counseling?


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

it was iheartlife's post in that thread I wanted you to read. Thanks you for chiming in.

Friend, clean your side so you can demand some changes on his part. Throught the post above search the marriagebuilder's entire site.


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## sayjellybeans (Jun 25, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> As I had not felt this was a good marriage for a while, I wanted to divorce then but he wanted to work things out so we did.


This statement leads me to believe that you have limits on what you're willing to offer up to your BH, things that are probably going to be crucial to a proper R. 

That being said, if you really want to make every effort to gain back his trust, you'll find a way to be completely transparent. You said yourself that he's paranoid. (I'm wondering if you used that word without really thinking of the denotation, considering it means suspicion without cause.) Working things out would include attempting to allay his fears and pain to the best of your ability. 
Are you sure you're up to it?

I hope everything works out.


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## here2learn (Aug 23, 2012)

My wife and I share passwords and leave our e-mails up on a shared computer most of the time. But I do have a government agency-issued laptop and Blackberry that she cannot get access to, for security reasons. I think such an arrangement needs to be made in your situation, as your company policy likely prohibits unauthorized access.


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## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

TCSRedhead, if you want to save your marriage you need to give them up. 

I caught my STBXW in the midst of an EA/PA that lasted for over 1 1/2 years...maybe longer. She said she wanted to save our marriage but she refused to give me passwords. She even refused to remove the access passwords to her computer and cell phone. She claimed I had no right to invade her privacy. She also said that she didn't want me reading personal email and messages from her friends. 

Her attitude about this made me realize that she didn't think she should have to give up anything...she wasn't remorseful. I wasn't asking her for passwords just to be spiteful...I needed them in order to verify so I could trust her again. Apparently she didn't see it that way. Her messages to her friends were more important then our marriage. 

I had no choice but to file for divorce.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

All passwords should be shared.
Complete transparency on both sides.
He should be able to check up on you whenever he wants.
If you've got nothing to hide then it shouldn't be a problem!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

I think that if he will agree to MC and IC then I will share all personal passwords. I cannot share access to my work laptop or cell without severe repurcussions from my employer. As I am the sole breadwinner right now, I can't lose my job.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

I broke my neck just over 4 years ago. I deal with very severe chronic pain. It's a living hell way to live. Since my injury my insecurities spiraled downhill and I need reassurance from my husband.

My husband has been wonderful. He does everything in his power to support me. There are days where I'm fighting from going into a depression. I feel worthless and unworthy as a wife. I'm not the same wife he married over 12 years ago. I'm now disabled. My husband will stand by my side until the end. I will eventually be in a wheelchair full time, which I find incredibly embarrassing. I'm only in my late 30's.

About a year ago I have accepted my pain. I've involved myself in a few hobbies. I'm unable to leave the house, but I have a good routine on my good days. I, too, take medications. These medications are misunderstood and are very necessary when used correctly. I follow the rules to a T. 

Currently I have a kidney infection. Life is throwing me more curve balls. At least I managed to stay out of the hospital this time. My last kidney infection has permanently damaged my kidney. I was hospitalized for 5 nights.

I understand your husbands insecurities. He needs assurance from you. My pain clinic doctor says I'm very blessed by my husbands support. He's a very honorable man and I can't say enough good things about him. He meets my needs in every way possible.

It's up to you what you want to do with your life and your marriage. You both might benefit from counseling. Good luck! I know it's very difficult living with someone who suffers from chronic pain. It's even more difficult living it. I never ever get a break from the pain, ever!

I believe in total transparency. We have each other passwords and cell phones at all times.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

TCSRedhead said:


> I've been married for 10 years to my husband. We have two daughters (mine) in college.  I am his third wife, he is my first. The first five years were good overall - but the last five have been pretty tough. My husband had multiple surgeries, the last resulting in some pretty severe nerve damage with chronic pain. He now takes high dosages of narcotics and was unable to return to his profession.
> 
> We relocated to another state for my job where I received a pay increase plus we have a lower cost of living to accomodate this change in our family income.
> 
> ...


Persoanl accounts absolutely. Infidelity or not. I am a big believer in transaprency. Too bad you guys did not practive that before as he may have been able to intervene in your affair.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

TCSRedhead said:


> There is definitely no question of paternity but I didn't rule testing out since I wanted him to feel confident. I had not progressed to a PA but would not say that I wouldn't have either. I have no trouble copping to what I had or had not done and the pain that caused nor am I trying to justify that the problems in my marriage were acceptable cause.
> 
> I really don't have any solid objections or issues with giving him access to my email and Facebook and gave up my personal cell phone altogether since that was the source used for contact. I don't like the fact that he wants this since I may talk to a friend (not THAT kind of friend) about things that are happening between us.
> 
> ...


I would not share my work stuff in that case. However, I understand his position. So you may have to quit your job to save your marriage.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

michzz said:


> that said, please tell me the naked picture sharing was not on an email of cell phone messaging that you use for work.


Exactly. If you used work property to carry your affair then you already put in jeopardy your work, the only income... what could be your excuse then?


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

TCS, you seem to me to describe your infidelity in pretty casual fashion. And to feel much more strongly about the sanctity of your private communication channels. I feel for your husband.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

And I don't think I've said this anywhere else, but my H's affair started with government phones.

I'm not sure what makes me puke more, all that texting that amounted to such a huge betrayal to me, or the fact that my TAX DOLLARS were paying for it.

But DD#1 happened after he'd just left for the private sector...


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## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

You screwed up and got caught....time to pay the piper. I do not care how bad your marriage was/is....instad of leaving you cheated. He has ZERO reason to trust you right now. You want your marriage to work then you have to give him the passwords. And do not expect him to be lovey dovey right now, you shattered his heart. Truth of the matter is he is probably toughing this out for the baby. 

My husband had an EA...guess what I have access to everything. If he changes one password or deletes one email/text.....we are DONE. It should not bother you if you have nothing to hide.


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## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> I think that if he will agree to MC and IC then I will share all personal passwords. I cannot share access to my work laptop or cell without severe repurcussions from my employer. As I am the sole breadwinner right now, I can't lose my job.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Get over yourself. You are in no position to demand one damn thing from him. If counciling is that important to you, enroll in IC yourself. You should have asked for MC prior to your EA. 

As far as the work computer/phone, as HR for the paperwork that states the need for privacy and the consequences for breaking the privacy. That should ease his mind about company property. Please tell me that you did not communicate with the OM over your company computer/cell.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

What would you expect from him if he did the same ?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> I cannot share access to my work laptop or cell without severe repurcussions from my employer.


If you cannot do that, can you work around this issue so that he will feel safe ? Ask him to work with you on this


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## WWife (Oct 12, 2012)

I think it's entirely reasonable for him to expect full access and from my own experience (as a BS) it's expected. That's one of the first things our marriage counselor said we needed to do: I have full access to my husband's emails, phone, etc., whenever I want. 

You're in a tricky situation with your work computer. I waffle on this issue because my inclination is to say "come one, husbands and wives share confidential work information all the time." I'm actually curious: is it really the case that if your husband looks at your work phone you'll be fired? How will they know it's him accessing it and not you? I'm just trying to make sure you're not using a company rule as an easy excuse. Yes, there are definitely situations where a spouse shouldn't get access to info. Is this that kind of situation? Do you think that for every other married couple you work with, none of them share info with their spouses?

I think there can be solutions. First, if your work computer and phone are so locked down, it's likely that you can't even send emails or texts from them of a personal nature without getting in trouble. If that's the case, perhaps discuss that with your husband. Second, you may be able to set some rules for his access (and I'm hesitant about this because I fully believe *all* must be shared and limiting is not okay). I knew who my husband's OW was and so when I looked through his work email I only opened the emails that were from/to her or involved her (they worked together). When in doubt, I opened an email and perhaps skimmed it but the moment I realized it was about work and not personal, I closed the email and didn't read.

I did want to follow up on something an earlier poster brought up... it sounds as though you still don't feel as though you're getting what you need from this marriage. I have no idea if you feel the weight and repercussions from your EA, but as a BS one of the things I'm aware of is whether my husband has learned how to recognize the signs that could lead to another EA. One of the problems with EAs is that they can start innocently and slide into dangerous territory before either party is really fully aware of it. Not feeling like you're getting what you need from your marriage is the kind of thing that leads to affairs.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Because I have access to very sensitive information, credit/background information, personnel data, etc. all of my activity via work devices is closely monitored. The activity did not occur on work devices but on personal devices which he did have access to. He already knows that so I think he will be ok with the personal passwords. 

I haven't gotten what I need from this marriage for about 5 years. I had asked him numerous times to go to marriage counseling but he always brushed it off and said it was just me. I did not leave him because due to his disability, he is unable to support himself. In fact, he cited that as one of the reasons he did not leave when this came to light. Not that he loved me or couldn't live without me but that he couldn't leave for financial reasons. 

It just kills me that even with him not having a job right now and me working he won't seek out a counselor but puts that back on me too.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Another odd factor - when this was all exposed, I had every intention of separating. It just didn't make sense to continue where we were both so miserable and I figured I'd find a way to help support him. During that period, I changed my life insurance to equally distribute between my daughters and him (previously it all went to him). 

This seem to upset him worse than anything. He's asked several times if I've changed it back. I haven't but told him not to worry, it was taken care of.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> Because I have access to very sensitive information, credit/background information, personnel data, etc. all of my activity via work devices is closely monitored. The activity did not occur on work devices but on personal devices which he did have access to. He already knows that so I think he will be ok with the personal passwords.
> 
> I haven't gotten what I need from this marriage for about 5 years. I had asked him numerous times to go to marriage counseling but he always brushed it off and said it was just me. I did not leave him because due to his disability, he is unable to support himself. In fact, he cited that as one of the reasons he did not leave when this came to light. Not that he loved me or couldn't live without me but that he couldn't leave for financial reasons.
> 
> It just kills me that even with him not having a job right now and me working he won't seek out a counselor but puts that back on me too.


It seems that there may be at least 3 very separate things here that you are conflating into some garbled rationale for having your own way with each. 

First, you were unhappy in your marriage.

Second, you cheated. 

Third, you don't seem to feel that you should really have to do anything about the damage caused by your cheating, like giving up secrecy, which is the essence of cheating.

You also seem to feel put upon. Like you have been selflessly putting yourself out to accomodate your husband's needs and circumstance. Resentment bleeds through.

My humble advice would be:

1. Work on your marriage if you want to stay married. If you are not satisfied that your husband is willing or able to be a good and fulfilling husband to you, decide whether to stay and make the best of it for what it is or separate and divorce.

2. Don't cheat. If he comes around to accepting your extracurriclar dalliances as part of your arrangement, that is another thing.

3. If you want to keep your marriage, don't go about it in half-assed fashion. If you're going to be open and honest, be open and honest, without conditions or degrees.

4. Read "Not 'Just Friends.'"


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

I am just starting to read Not Just Friends hoping it will help me gain some clarity. 

You are right, I am resentful. I have been fighting that for years now but obviously not very well. The whole time we've been married, my husband has had very close personal relationships with other women that I was told was 'normal' and when I objected to how close they seemed was told I was 'irrational'. One of them even cost him a job when she became upset that it didn't become physical. 

I made a mistake, a big one, that I've fully owned and addressed and am trying to figure out how to move on in the best interest of my husband and child. If I were truly selfish, I would just kick him out and move on alone. I just find it unfair that only I am being held accountable in how this marriage has fallen apart.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Argh - I was invited to an after work ****tail hour. Again, wanting to be transparent, I invited him. Now, he doesn't want to go but says I should go alone. I know that if I do, he will then turn it against me later.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> Argh - I was invited to an after work ****tail hour. Again, wanting to be transparent, I invited him. Now, he doesn't want to go but says I should go alone. I know that if I do, he will then turn it against me later.


Go be with him instead.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Harken Banks said:


> Go be with him instead.


That's what I've said - and he keeps insisting that I go. It's very frustrating because when I go and spend time with him, he'll be very cold that I've done this.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Disability or not, you two do not belong together.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

No offense Hope, but I've read your recent comments to other posters and to be very quite blunt and honest much like you have been, your feedback is rather bitter and emotional. I haven't seen a positive thing that you've posted in the last few days so I'm hoping that isn't the norm for you.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Tell me, why are you together? What's good between the two of you?

If you guys DO want to stay together, certain things have to happen.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

If you'd like to know - he was my friend for 5 years before we ever started dating. Prior to his disability, we did everything together and shared everything. He is smart, funny and a great dad to my daughters. 

Since the onset of the chronic pain and the daily use of narcotics, he has become a different person and I want to learn how to live with that person but it's difficult when he's put up emotional walls. This is why I've asked repeatedly since then to get into counseling.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

OK, so he refuses to go to counseling. What now? Can you accept that and just keep on with the way things are?


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

It's unfair not to highlight this:


> In fact, he cited that as one of the reasons he did not leave when this came to light. Not that he loved me or couldn't live without me but that he couldn't leave for financial reasons.
> It just kills me that even with him not having a job right now and me working he won't seek out a counselor but puts that back on me too.


So, Harken is right with his 4 points but BH refused to help the marriage before his wife screwed up all for good AND still refuses to help the marriage now (more justified from his point of view).
OP may clean her side of the street all she wants. The marriage won't survive without BH's input and effort thou.
It's obvious OP resents her BH very much, it won't help in her efforts to make the marriage work but I don't think her vision of the marriage has that huge component of revisionism or blameshifing justifications. After a while the marriage will deteriorate even more becuase one sided efforts will make her resentments grow even more.

I'm talking from a mid/long term perspective. What is going to happen in an marriage which was in bad shape to beging with when infidelity doesn't means a wake up call? Not discussing the wrongness of OP's choices nor assinging blame but the odds this marriage is going to work at the end. 

As simple as R takes two, M'ges takes two.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Acabado said:


> It's unfair not to highlight this:
> 
> So, Harken is right with his 4 points but BH refused to help the marriage before his wife screwed up all for good AND still refuses to help the marriage now (more justified from his point of view).
> OP may clean her side of the street all she wants. The marriage won't survive without BH's input and effort thou.
> ...


That's a lot of what worries me - what if I can work and fix my parts of this but the original problems aren't fixed? Will that be enough? 

Well, now for the search for a decent counselor in this area.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

TCSRedhead said:


> That's a lot of what worries me - what if I can work and fix my parts of this but the original problems aren't fixed? Will that be enough?
> 
> Well, now for the search for a decent counselor in this area.


Hence my question about whether you can stay with him if he won't get help.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> Hence my question about whether you can stay with him if he won't get help.


To be honest, I don't know. For me to leave him, means to leave him without means of support. I don't know if I'm capable of doing that to someone I've loved for 15 years or that's even right to do.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Hmmm, well, then you're basically giving him permission to treat you however he pleases, and you'll just take it.

Is it right for him to do what he is doing?


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

TCSRedhead said:


> If you'd like to know - he was my friend for 5 years before we ever started dating. Prior to his disability, we did everything together and shared everything. He is smart, funny and a great dad to my daughters.
> 
> Since the onset of the chronic pain and the daily use of narcotics, he has become a different person and I want to learn how to live with that person but it's difficult when he's put up emotional walls. This is why I've asked repeatedly since then to get into counseling.


You know, TCSRedhead, I can really relate to this. My Dear Hubby was recently diagnosed with COPD and they put him on a BUNCH of medications...and he is just not the same man. One thing I used to adore about him was his quick wit and how articulate he was--he was the only man I ever met who was smarter than me and could really hold up his end of a conversation! (Not that I'm a genius by a longshot, but rather he was so smart it piqued my interest for years.) After the medications, it is like he is a different person. Now he's like a zombie, can't think, can't stay awake, and when he is awake he's grouchy and barking at me. It's been REALLY tough! 

I personally have joined a couple "Caregiver" forums just so I know I'm not the only one who feels this way--otherwise I'd feel like such a loser for being upset with a sick person. I've also got a blog that I just love called "Reaching for Fringe". The writer is a younger lady who married a fella and very shortly thereafter they found out he has Crohn's disease. I like it just because she talks out loud about a lot of the stuff that I think in my head. 

Ultimately though, what Acabado and Harken said are just true. I happen to be blessed because my Dear Hubby accepts/understands that he's different and is willing to work with me to adapt to our new "normal" (aka he is not shutting me out). But a marriage really is TWO people, not just you. You can clean up your side of the street all you want, and personally I would strongly recommend that you do!!, but for the marriage to be strong and loving he would have to be willing to join you at some point. That's not to say he'd do it "your way" but it has to be mutual and he'd have to do some of the changing too.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

My thoughts are to work on my own issues in this with a counselor. I've sent him an email with the counselor's information to see if he's willing to set up an appointment for both of us as well. 

To be honest, no, I can't live with things just going back to the way they were before. I know how unhappy I was and it was clear to everyone. My 19 year old daughter even said that she knew something was happening or had changed (when my EA was outed) because I was acting happy again.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

OK, counseling's a good plan. But you do need to start thinking about what you're going to do if/when things on his part don't change. You made the wrong choice already by having an EA. What it boils down to is 4 choices:
- divorce
- do nothing
- cheat
- work on things TOGETHER


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> You are right, I am resentful. I have been fighting that for years now but obviously not very well. The whole time we've been married, my husband has had very close personal relationships with other women that I was told was 'normal' and when I objected to how close they seemed was told I was 'irrational'. One of them even cost him a job when she became upset that it didn't become physical.


This sounds to me like he may have some of his own issues with regard to marital boundaries. Two wrongs don't make a right--obviously. But this doesn't sound like a loving way to be, either. I take it he still has this, close friendships with women? I can only assume that he's discussing his marital problems with one or more of them, for example.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Well, I'm taking this as a sign of hope - I emailed him the counselor's name and phone number and he set up an appointment immediately. 

When I explained that the reason for inviting him to the after work ****tail hour today was because I wanted to spend time with him, he agreed to come. I'm hoping he really wants to be there and not just be grumpy that I'm pulling him away from his couch. 

I'm excited that we're going to get some help with this. Now the hard work begins.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

I'm excited for you too! Good job!


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

TCSRedhead said:


> To be honest, I don't know. For me to leave him, means to leave him without means of support. I don't know if I'm capable of doing that to someone I've loved for 15 years or that's even right to do.


That shouldn't be the basis for a long term relationship though...

Can he not work at all ? Is he addicted to the pain killers and narcotics ?


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> I am just starting to read Not Just Friends hoping it will help me gain some clarity.
> 
> You are right, I am resentful. I have been fighting that for years now but obviously not very well. The whole time we've been married, my husband has had very close personal relationships with other women that I was told was 'normal' and when I objected to how close they seemed was told I was 'irrational'. One of them even cost him a job when she became upset that it didn't become physical.
> 
> I made a mistake, a big one, that I've fully owned and addressed and am trying to figure out how to move on in the best interest of my husband and child. If I were truly selfish, I would just kick him out and move on alone. I just find it unfair that only I am being held accountable in how this marriage has fallen apart.


So he has been unfaithful as well. hmmmmmm. IT sounds like you both checked out a long time ago. It seems you are both in the same court here. He cheats on you then becomes dependent. You two don't deal with your issues from his infidelity so you start resenting him for what he did. So you find someone else to reach out too. 

So IMO it sounds like both of you have messed up. Both of you need to accept that you have failed in your marriage. IMO you both need counceling and you both need to own up to your faults, failures, and if he wants access to your company phone with sensitive information that is an understandable no. I work in IT and if anyone found out your husband had viewed private information you would lose your job. 

This is a two way street here when he cheated on you. You didn't set boundaries or anything you let him run all over your marriage. Now you are doing the same thing. 

You need to get into counciling and you need to start asking questions about his OW. Good luck.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

He has had a failed back fusion which left him with permanent and progressive nerve damage. He is progressively losing function in his legs and experiencing chronic pain which increases every year (hence the need for the narcotics to just keep it a little at bay). He had a device implanted into his spine that sends electric impulses to help with the pain as well but it doesn't replace the need for the narcotics.

So, he can't do the job he used to (physically) and with the narcotics he's on, no other employer would take him. He can't sit or stand for more than 20 minutes at a time so it really makes his life miserable. 

I know that a part of why he didn't want to throw in the towel after the EA came to light was fear of being alone and incapacitated and I can only imagine how helpless and vulnerable he had to feel.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Do you guys have a sex life?


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Do you guys have a sex life?


Honestly - not much of one. That's definitely been part of the brutal conversations we've had the last few days. He can but then has even more pain for days later which in turn makes me feel guilty. 

Add to that this past year that I've been pregnant or breastfeeding which were all taboo to him. I've dropped all baby weight and work out daily so I know there is still a physical attraction but we both are bad about not initiating.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

What a mess you are in!! 

how old are you?


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> He has had a failed back fusion which left him with permanent and progressive nerve damage. He is progressively losing function in his legs and experiencing chronic pain which increases every year (hence the need for the narcotics to just keep it a little at bay). He had a device implanted into his spine that sends electric impulses to help with the pain as well but it doesn't replace the need for the narcotics.
> 
> So, he can't do the job he used to (physically) and with the narcotics he's on, no other employer would take him. He can't sit or stand for more than 20 minutes at a time so it really makes his life miserable.
> 
> I know that a part of why he didn't want to throw in the towel after the EA came to light was fear of being alone and incapacitated and I can only imagine how helpless and vulnerable he had to feel.


Well life dealt him a crappy hand. That still doesn't excuse his behavior and I am not convinced he didn't have a PA at one point. I think deep down you knew he was screwing around on you and you swept it under a rug for whatever reason.
You both need to go to Counceling given the situation with his back the narcotics maybe altering his moods. I really don't envy the slippery slope you wound yourself up in.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

I am 40, he is 45. It is a mess. That's part of why we really need to have a therapist involved to see if this can be salvaged and if that's what we both really want. 

The conversations we've had around the subject of sex are just so painful and hurtful when we're really being honest that I know without the prompting to have them, I'll just shut up and let it continue.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

> During the pregnancy, he raised questions about paternity which I again understood and told him he could test to feel comfortable. (He chose not to).


Hold on to that guy... He is a certified sucker...


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

costa200 said:


> Hold on to that guy... He is a certified sucker...


:scratchhead: Do you really think that if there was a chance in hell this was someone else's child I would have offered that up so easily? I know my mistakes and what I did do and what I did NOT do. This was never a physical affair. My offer for the testing was to set his mind at ease.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

TCSRedhead said:


> I am 40, he is 45. It is a mess. That's part of why we really need to have a therapist involved to see if this can be salvaged and if that's what we both really want.
> 
> The conversations we've had around the subject of sex are just so painful and hurtful when we're really being honest that I know without the prompting to have them, I'll just shut up and let it continue.


Okay I'm going to talk a little more boldly "turkey' than I usually do here, so please bear in mind my neck is kind of sticking out here. 

Back before this whole medical incident, it sounds like you loved your husband and that a lot of these issues have come up precisely because he is not who he was. Part of what I suspect you're butting your head against is that the world you had back then is not coming back. In a way, it's like you have to mourn losing the man and love you once had. So that marriage...that relationship is gone and no matter how much he "gets better" or how hard you try, it won't get back to "the way it was"...and that hurts like crazy. 

When my Dear Hubby was diagnosed, he was so sick that I honestly was not sure if he would live...for about 2 weeks there. After those 2 weeks he was so sick I wasn't sure if he wanted to live. And all that time he was in no position to have sex. Now that he's doing a bit better we've had to have some discussions about sex and how are we going to do it now? 

Here's the thing: what used to be "how you did it" is not how it's going to be done now. I told him I had no intention of being in a sexless marriage but that my sex life didn't mean I was going to leave him if he didn't give me X number of orgasms per week. I honestly think that was a huge issue for him. The way I see it, sex is something you BOTH need and want, and it affects you BOTH so you BOTH have to make decisions about it. So guess what? Missionary position and Cowboy probably aren't gonna work so what other options are there? Find one that is pleasurable to you both and that works for ya! Plus everyone still has fingers and a tongue and there are still toys and things. And finally, is intercourse the only way to be intimate with each other? Are there other things you could do that bring that feeling of closeness and connection?

For some "ideas" one thing we've been trying is more "side by side" positions. In our instance Dear Hubby just can not breathe...his lungs are shot...so once we get started he'll start gasping and can not finish. We discovered that some positions are a little easier on the lungs AND we found out that going slower is STUNNINGLY GOOD!! And again, we've gone over some of the other options too like fingers, tongues, toys etc. and sometimes we'll start things and if he can keep breathing, we move and finish ourselves one at a time....stuff like that. Also we are looking into things like tantric sex and non-orgasmic sex as ways to still be really involved with each other physically. Hey, don't you remember heavy petting when you were a teenager? GOD that was hot!! And it still is...

So keep at it Redhead. You can do this.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Affaircare said:


> Okay I'm going to talk a little more boldly "turkey' than I usually do here, so please bear in mind my neck is kind of sticking out here.
> 
> Back before this whole medical incident, it sounds like you loved your husband and that a lot of these issues have come up precisely because he is not who he was. Part of what I suspect you're butting your head against is that the world you had back then is not coming back. In a way, it's like you have to mourn losing the man and love you once had. So that marriage...that relationship is gone and no matter how much he "gets better" or how hard you try, it won't get back to "the way it was"...and that hurts like crazy.
> 
> ...


It's definitely part of what we have been talking about lately. Telling him that I haven't had an orgasm with him for over a year just seemed to shock him. Not sure why since there is no faking going on but at least that's all out in the open so we can start fixing it. 

Above and beyond my huge mistake, the EA, I think I really screwed up by not talking to him as clearly and bluntly about how unhappy this marriage had gotten. I am comparing it to my employees - how would they know if they were doing well or not if we didn't have regular check ins and talk about this stuff? I can't let him out of his side of the marriage entirely just because of his disability. I'm reading a lot on this site that is helping tremendously.

I'm also reading a lot that really proves my husband did have EA's. I don't think they became physical but it helps me understand why I felt so hurt by these 'friendships' that he seemed to minimize. Even lately, he's been consoling a female friend of ours through a divorce. I know they text daily - she doesn't contact me at all. That just doesn't seem right to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

If you were my wife, I would divorce you. 

You shouldn't be asking yourself if his request is fair. 

You should be asking yourself why you can't relinquish that security to your own husband.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

WhiteMousse said:


> If you were my wife, I would divorce you.
> 
> You shouldn't be asking yourself if his request is fair.
> 
> You should be asking yourself why you can't relinquish that security to your own husband.


I'm guessing you didn't read through the whole thing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> What would you expect from him if he did the same ?


Questions along this line are useless unless the WS is out of the fog, out of denial, and truly remorseful. They can't see the other perspective. If they could, they'd never do what they do.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

I'm hopeful for you, him calling the therapist is an excellent first step. You guys will need to work on the issues from before, or you'll wind up miserable again. Plus all of the new stuff thrown in on top of it.

The daily texting to the woman is going to have to stop. Saving your marriage is hard enough, you both need to put your full focus there, she can look elsewhere for help. How transparent is he? Do you have full access?


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

He would let me look through his texts if I asked. It's just hard being married to a man who seems more tuned in to listening to other women. I don't begrudge friendships but I do resent the fact that our own marriage is in shambles while he's being a support to her. I lack any objectivity right now to even understand if that's rational.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

It is rational. At this point, texting a woman in a vulnerable position, while his marriage teeters on the brink is almost criminally stupid. You should read the texts. You should also insist it stop, that he sends a NC notice, and follow up to make sure he sticks to it. You both need to buy in to your own marriage 100%, or you haven't got a chance.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

TCSRedhead said:


> He would let me look through his texts if I asked. It's just hard being married to a man who seems more tuned in to listening to other women. I don't begrudge friendships but I do resent the fact that our own marriage is in shambles while he's being a support to her. I lack any objectivity right now to even understand if that's rational.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Does he speak to this other women a lot ? Have you discussed that with him ?

Also what culture is he from ? Why is breastfeeding and being pregnant a taboo? Or did you mean in the sense of being attracted to you ?


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

She just started going through the separation about a month ago. Before that, thy didn't text often that I know about, maybe once a month or so? Now, he mentions her and her situation almost daily. I don't get the impression that its at the EA level but the double standard is irritating. 

As for being pregnant, he said it was weird to even think of having sex wih me while carrying a child. Then when I was breast feeding, he said it made me seem less sexual. I weaned the baby early, made sure to diet and started back at the gym right away. I am back at normal weight again already because I want him to be attracted and proud of his wife when we are together.

He was born and raised in SoCal so physical appearance is very important to him which means I take a lot of effort to maintain my appearance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey TCS---I know where you are coming from in re: H's pain------I take a friend of mine to "city of hope" once every 2 weeks when his wife can't---he has advanced myeloma---and his pain is unbearable for him, and he gives his wife He*l, part of the time, but they get thru it----the one thing they do not do, is to cheat on each other----It is your morals that dictate what you do

I understand that you can get down, and it all becomes to much, but from what you are saying your H., is overindulging himself in re: the pain---he is taking advantage of you, and you are allowing it

If he is having the same inaprpos association with other women, that he is holding you to task for, why are you allowing it to happen

You now have a child that needs to be brought up, and that child should get the benefit, of the best possible homelife---that means pain or no pain, your H., either adjusts, and you both work at your mge, or you need to leave----and do not give me this "line" that he can't get on without you----what would happen to him should you die (obviously no one wants that to happen) he would have to learn how to cope w/out you ---so stop feeling sorry, for him feeling sorry, for himself, and manipulating you

You are both getting up in age, and in a few years, old age will add to your physical problems, then it is even tuffer, plus as you grow older and retire---you then spend ALL of your time together----so you really do need to be in a good marital situation, not the one which you describe, that you are in now

Look you get one trip thru life on this planet---your child gets the same one trip-----right now you are in misery---your H., is using his pain, as a crutch to keep you under his thumb, and still do what he wants, that has to stop----if it takes you threatening, and even filing for D---to WAKE him up, and keep him awake to what he needs to do to make this mge work out---HAPPILY------THAN THAT IS WHAT YOU NEED TO DO

Your H., is a big boy, he will survive----you gotta do what is best for you, and your new child!!!!!!!


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Thanks jnj - I know he is being manipulative. This marriage has really just gone to a very dark place. 

However, it has been due to both of us. He made poor choices as did I with my EA. 

We do have a beautiful son whom my husband really does love and adore. At this point, I am putting my energy into fixing myself and hopefully by going to MC, starting to work on this mess.

The empty nest thing really did scare me (the EA developed right before my then-youngest left for college) because I really didn't know what was left for us. 

I originally posted this thread with only a minimal understanding of what an EA was, etc. The more I've read and learned here, I can definitely see a lot of places that we've made mistakes that have triggered the other to withdraw or retaliate.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Just something odd - I've been posting here via means he can see. Not hiding history, etc., its just kind of odd that he hasn't mentioned it or asked anything about it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> Just something odd - I've been posting here via means he can see. Not hiding history, etc., its just kind of odd that he hasn't mentioned it or asked anything about it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My wife knows I am active on this forum, will ask to see what I'm laughing about, or mad about sometimes, but I have no idea if she reads it at all.


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## regretfullyhis (Aug 12, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> I've been married for 10 years to my husband. We have two daughters (mine) in college. I am his third wife, he is my first. The first five years were good overall - but the last five have been pretty tough. My husband had multiple surgeries, the last resulting in some pretty severe nerve damage with chronic pain. He now takes high dosages of narcotics and was unable to return to his profession.
> 
> We relocated to another state for my job where I received a pay increase plus we have a lower cost of living to accomodate this change in our family income.
> 
> ...



I am going through same thing my story as I am the wayward wife feel free to pm me maybe we can help each other I have similar issues he still doesn't trust me and isn't affectionate like ise to be 


regretfullyhis 02:25 PM Today
I hope u don't mind me telling u my story as short as I can make it 
My husband call him john adopted my two kids from a previous marriage my ex husband call him dave was in prison at the time (father of the kids and ex husband we married youn I got pregnant married him at 16 he was 18). Dave got out and a year later contacted me to find out how our oldest son (no longer legally his as john adopted them)) was doing because that son call him ben secretly facebooked him. We proceeds to talk text only as he wa 26 hours away for three months behind johns back..


John two years prior had been battling pain killer addiction after a shoulder injury ( finally after this started going to a doctor and now on medication to treat that addiction) and before this pain killer problem was never an addict didn't use anything not even drink was during addiction and before a very hard worker good provider and amazing person. 
For those two years he was verbally mean to me very disconnected and hardly no intimacy. I didnt know for 18 months it had anything to do with an addiction. We have the two kids from my previous marrige he had adopted then we (John and i) had two of our own. So four children total. Be fore we got married john and his ex girlfriend whom he had no kids with she told me they had sex and he admitted she had come to his work but didn't tell me cause I would think he cheated but claimed she lied about sex this is second time before we married he said this ,that was 2003 after living together 3 years. Although I don't fully believe him I let it go. 

So after john found the texts of me and Dave he with our confronting me with it took his mom and sister 
Went to a lawyer filed and took off with kids to an out of state relative then asked me to come see him I did, then Told his mom I followed him there.. Due to his addiction we didn't know about he lied for two years about me and his family said horrible things about me etc to keep me and them apart.

He then started texting calling this ex behind my back a month after finding out about me in march this year and dave texting talking. I found phone records. i called her she said they met at lake he took our two kids even. Then they met again alone for pain meds and said he had lied and told her we didn't live together etc. ok so I have NC with Dave but John said my betrayal with my ex is worse because of the history and he is hurt worse because he didn't do anything with his ex and not were his intentions to be with her it was just get me back.I say the same dave was five states away and we only texted talked but I am suppose to believe john while he continues to feel lhow can he ever know I am really being honest (I could say same to him) and says he knows he was mean and selfish with addiction but never had gone to a woman to talk. He looks at me different but says he wants to be here and with me and feels like he has been forced to feel unimportant and I robbed him of that. I cry a lot To him and say why can't we just be like before if we both want that I am willing and have forgiven. He was an absent husband emotionally an physically for those two years before i ever talked to dave and even after as he only started treatment in august.

me and my ex Dave (for three months nov 2011-feb 2012 had what I call the EA ) i had stopped talking to dave for a month before John found phone records). dave did say he wanted me still always will while I told Dave that John and me were havig problems but if he could be his real self (John ) he is all I have ever wanted and i didnt want to be with Dave but had conversations about what could have been had he never turned into a NA person am went to prison he did I always said things happen for a reason am John makes me happier more than anyone has when sober and normal. Any advice on how I can or things I can do or say to prove I am trustworthy ? I want him to look at me like before. Sorry so long just hoping no matter how harsh y'all have advice on trusting or earning trust. He has access to phone my fb all of it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## regretfullyhis (Aug 12, 2012)

Decimated said:


> TCSRedhead, if you want to save your marriage you need to give them up.
> 
> I caught my STBXW in the midst of an EA/PA that lasted for over 1 1/2 years...maybe longer. She said she wanted to save our marriage but she refused to give me passwords. She even refused to remove the access passwords to her computer and cell phone. She claimed I had no right to invade her privacy. She also said that she didn't want me reading personal email and messages from her friends.
> 
> ...


Just curious did she become remorseful and say she didn't want a dovorce
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## regretfullyhis (Aug 12, 2012)

Affaircare said:


> My thoughts, as a former disloyal spouse myself, is that it's my opinion that being married to someone MEANS that you are intimate with them in every way (mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually), and you are intimate with them ALONE in a way that you are not intimate with anyone else on the planet. I keep it really simple: I give 100% of my affection and loyal to my spouse and no one else.
> 
> To me, the very definition of being intimate with someone MEANS that I am transparently honest with him---and there I envision being "see through" enough so that he can see the True Me. That is to say, I am open and share with him my true thoughts, feelings, interests, everything. I want him to see who I truly am, what I am afraid of, what I struggle with, what I think about things, my opinions, things that hurt me...all of it so that he can see who I truly am, and love me in spite of my warts. In a relationship like that, where I let him SEE me, you can see where it would make sense for me to share everything with him, including passwords to everything, my Facebook, my email, my cell phone, my computer...
> 
> ...


I am a WW an was wondering besides full access what ways were u able to get BS to trust and not think about EA every day him look at u the same again like before affair
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

regretfullyhis said:


> Just curious did she become remorseful and say she didn't want a dovorce
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The issues he's talking about are not saying you're remorseful but proving it. Giving all access to cell phones, emails, computers, passwords. Making your life (ALL OF IT) an open book.

Sending a No Contact letter to your affair partner (not sure how you would do that if your AP is also the father of your children) and standing by it. Don't delete any emails/texts/chats - let your husband read all of it, good/bad/ugly.

For me, I'm able to do that with personal devices but not my work ones. We're working on how to make that transparent without sacrificing my security clearances and such.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

regretfullyhis said:


> I am a WW an was wondering besides full access what ways were u able to get BS to trust and not think about EA every day him look at u the same again like before affair
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You need to realise that you can't make him do anything, you can't control him in anyway, nor can you control his thoughts. You control you, period. If you are sorry, then tell him, and act like it. If you love him, the tell him and act like it. If you want trust, then be trustworthy, and act like it. If you want him to respect you, then be respectable, and act like it. If you want him to love you, then be worthy and act like it.

Those last three apply to yourself to. You need to respect yourself, you need to act in a way that you would trust yourself. You need to love yourself. If you can't, how can you expect it from someone else. Make yourself into the person you want to be, and be that person. If your BS comes along for the ride great, consider yourself extremely lucky to get a second chance, and be worthy of it. If he doesn't, well you still need to be better for yourself, and your kids.


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## regretfullyhis (Aug 12, 2012)

SadandAngry said:


> You need to realise that you can't make him do anything, you can't control him in anyway, nor can you control his thoughts. You control you, period. If you are sorry, then tell him, and act like it. If you love him, the tell him and act like it. If you want trust, then be trustworthy, and act like it. If you want him to respect you, then be respectable, and act like it. If you want him to love you, then be worthy and act like it.
> 
> Those last three apply to yourself to. You need to respect yourself, you need to act in a way that you would trust yourself. You need to love yourself. If you can't, how can you expect it from someone else. Make yourself into the person you want to be, and be that person. If your BS comes along for the ride great, consider yourself extremely lucky to get a second chance, and be worthy of it. If he doesn't, well you still need to be better for yourself, and your kids.


I have been and he says he sees that in me but says how I hid it before he thinks he will always wonder if I am doing it again. I know I am lucky for a second chance and even understand him talking to his ex to retaliate I do give him access and respect him and when he needs space I don't force my feelings on him. I don't want to control his feelings just wondering if others who have been the BS have gotten past it and gotten back to feeling the loyalty and look at spouse as did before EA
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

The bitter truth is he may never get over it. So, the question is what will you do if that is the case?

I recognize fully that the issues my husband and I have are ones we've both been shoving in the closet (they don't fit under that rug!) and that now we're going to have to open the closet, look at each problem and try to fix it. There's no guarantee that there won't be a deal breaker in there. 

If and when that occurs, I am prepared to call it quits and know that I gave it my best.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> The bitter truth is he may never get over it. So, the question is what will you do if that is the case?
> 
> I recognize fully that the issues my husband and I have are ones we've both been shoving in the closet (they don't fit under that rug!) and that now we're going to have to open the closet, look at each problem and try to fix it. There's no guarantee that there won't be a deal breaker in there.
> 
> If and when that occurs, I am prepared to call it quits and know that I gave it my best.


I still think he (your H) has boundary issues. 

Again, you did wrong. You know you did wrong.

But it bothers me a lot that he probably he thinks he's done nothing wrong.

Here is an idea. Work through the books Not Just Friends (Shirley Glass) and Boundaries in Marriage (Cloud and Townsend). Tell him this is all about YOU learning about what you did wrong and wanting him to heal. True enough. You will get a lot out of it, esp. working together. But as you work through these books, make note of where he has done the things the books say are wrong. Talk to him about it. Where he refuses to agree and doesn't 'get it,' make note and raise this in counseling.

Because you are vulnerable to another EA although you say you know it's wrong (repeating what you've said elsewhere), be careful with this exercise. This isn't a mudslinging contest where your one EA = hundreds of his inappropriate / too friendly relationships witih various women. This is about the two of you creating new boundaries together.

If I'd had an EA (which I pray I never will), I'd be mighty annoyed that I had to toe the line, but my H could continue to do many of the things that lead straight to an EA with impunity. The resentment will eat you alive. Work together. Find common ground on this subject.


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## regretfullyhis (Aug 12, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> The bitter truth is he may never get over it. So, the question is what will you do if that is the case?
> 
> I recognize fully that the issues my husband and I have are ones we've both been shoving in the closet (they don't fit under that rug!) and that now we're going to have to open the closet, look at each problem and try to fix it. There's no guarantee that there won't be a deal breaker in there.
> 
> If and when that occurs, I am prepared to call it quits and know that I gave it my best.


I guess maybe call me selfish but I don't know if I could call it quits if he can't ever stop bringing it up because he is the low of my life I just messed up really bad by not just a telling my husband and b never allowing it to happen I was selfish and a b&[email protected]% for this
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> I still think he (your H) has boundary issues.
> 
> Again, you did wrong. You know you did wrong.
> 
> ...


I actually bought that book Day 2 here and am working my way through it. It's really hard not to turn it in to a 'tit for tat' session when we talk about things so I am really working to frame things about building the correct framework for our marriage (not just me). 

I think he's a little annoyed by it currently but hopefully he starts seeing progress and we can start to find some areas we agree. He's ok with total transparency (letting me see texts/emails/FB) but doesn't get that having close friendships with other women (one of whom he dated - ouch!) is inappropriate. 

It's taking me a while (and a lot less sleeping) to see it's really messy. I only put my foot down once in our marriage with these relationships and he still defends his actions on that one (texts crossed the line with sexual content). 

I'm nervous about our first MC appointment next week - these skeletons are all going to come marching out at the two of us.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> I only put my foot down once in our marriage with these relationships and he still defends his actions on that one (texts crossed the line with sexual content).


I really think an excellent marriage counselor trained in infidelity is going to have to sort the two of you out.


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## pastinsanity (Jan 16, 2013)

I have issues with my husband because of things he has done in the past. He is currently on this avenue of not sharing passwords and I feel he has something to hide. He spins a good tale about security and its his and its none of my business. I don't care who you are, in a marriage, everything should be accessible. Work stuff is different but if personal things are being rerouted there to hide it, then that's just wrong.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

My husband and I share each others passwords. They are all typed up and sitting in our file cabinet. We believe in full transparency. Although it's very rarely we go through each others business.


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## Calibre12 (Nov 27, 2012)

You might be in false R then. Your marriage needs total transparency to survive and sounds like you are not willing. An EA is more devastating to a marriage, than a PA, IMO, because the waters haven't been tested yet, so the "could-have-beens" will permeate the mind, and the excitement from the "possibilities of consummation" will permeate the groin. It takes on a life of its own. Unlike a PA, in which, those barriers of "desire" are cleared and determines if a next "fix" will occur. 

SO, that being said, you need to determine if you really had wanted your marriage before/after DDay, if you still want it, what you have done to keep it, why you want it, what you want from it and what you are willing to do for it. The rest is up to you.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

RightfulRiskTaker said:


> You might be in false R then. Your marriage needs total transparency to survive and sounds like you are not willing. An EA is more devastating to a marriage, than a PA, IMO, because the waters haven't been tested yet, so the "could-have-beens" will permeate the mind, and the excitement from the "possibilities of consummation" will permeate the groin. It takes on a life of its own. Unlike a PA, in which, those barriers of "desire" are cleared and determines if a next "fix" will occur.
> 
> SO, that being said, you need to determine if you really had wanted your marriage before/after DDay, if you still want it, what you have done to keep it, why you want it, what you want from it and what you are willing to do for it. The rest is up to you.


I'm guessing you meant this for pastinsanity? This was my first post to this forum months ago. After understanding a lot more about what I needed to do from folks here, I gave this all up months ago.  Best thing I ever did!


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

I'm bumping this up for those who think that WS' that come to this board unremorseful and acting entitled can't be shown differently.

I received some pretty direct and honest feedback which was hard to take BUT through this, I started really seeing the other side of things too. 

I really have to thank a lot of the folks for their help during this dark time. Looking back and reading it - it makes me cringe. I hear such an awful voice in my writing but I want people to see that as horrible as a WS can behave, there can be hope and change.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Hey, Red...you've come a long way since. Chin up.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

SomedayDig said:


> Hey, Red...you've come a long way since. Chin up.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: I love having you on TAM. now. I guess you kinda figured, I wasn't too thrilled at first


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Thanks Dig.

Hope - you really pushed at me but I have to credit you for really making me step back and think about WHY I wasn't just giving up entirely. There WAS something there but I had lost sight of it at the time.


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