# Need super rapid advice to get r



## kescalante (May 18, 2013)

Hello everyone, I posted here a while ago and got some helpful advice. In a shortish summary of my situation, me and my husband are both young and have 2 kids under the age of 2. We live with his dad and step mom. My husband has since before marriage been very lazy and blames his problems on anyone, regardless of how ridiculous the excuse may be. He never seems to be able to own up to his responsibilities. He refuses to change a diaper, feed the kids, spend time away from video games or computer. He refused to go to work and didn't try to get the job back as well as only applied to 3 jobs this whole week. He also did this knowing that his dad gave him a deadline of he had to have a job by the end of this week or he would be kicked out. Well, now it's the end of the week and he's been kicked out. He's blaming me and saying its because I'm a *****, he didn't have time. I found out 2 weeks ago that he is emotionally abusive. We went to a therapist because of this and the therapist said he needs a psychiatrist because he needs medication for his problems. He couldn't formally diagnose my husband. I've struggled with whether or not I can take a lifetime of this. I've seen the horrors of being in a bipolar marriage through my sisters chaotic attempt of changing her ex husband while raising two children. Her children are very scarred. My husband has not been far off from physically abusive and does get very in my face and has slammed me to the wall or bed by my throat before.

I'm very conflicted. He's had three weeks to find a new job and now at the last minute is trying to do so. He will be homeless starting as of today and his mom has texted me and said he hasn had enough support and love. She's stated she will take him back but hasn't seen everything because she lives in a different state. She listens to his distorted half truths about the situation and believes that his actions mean nothing. I fear for him and everyone around him if he keeps getting rescued after every mistake. He has not learned responsibility through this and it's heartbreaking because he now for the countless time has said he wants a divorce. He always returns saying he doesn't want a divorce of course.

Now, sorry for the not so short summary. I want a loving, trustworthy and honest husband that actually acts like he cares about his kids. Instead I would describe him as dishonest, untrustworthy and utterly selfish except for the few times he's trying to get something out of me like money or sex. He hasn't shown motivation towards getting diagnosed and the damage is showing. I'm no psychiatrist but if I could put a name to what goes on its super rapid cycling bipolar. His mood swings are sometimes multiple times within 24 hours accompanied by lots of promises to change, material gifts, calling me a lying cheating ***** and then oh baby you mean the world I'm sorry. This is chaos and I don't want my or the kids life like this.
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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

kescalante said:


> I'm no psychiatrist but if I could put a name to what goes on its *super rapid cycling bipolar*. His mood swings are sometimes multiple times within 24 hours_._


Kescalante, perhaps he does have a super rapid cycling bipolar disorder. That is extremely unlikely, however. For one thing, it is quite rare. For another, that is NOT what you're describing in this thread and your other thread. Instead, the behaviors you describe -- e.g., rapid flips from adoring you to devaluing you, verbal abuse, temper tantrums, lack of impulse control, black-white thinking, and blame-shifting (always being "The Victim") -- are classic traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder.

I therefore suggest you read my description of 12 differences I have observed between bipolar-1 behavior (i.e., my foster son) and BPD behavior (my exW). That description explains why the "super rapid cycling" you observe likely is the event-triggered mood changes that are a hallmark of BPD. 

You will find the description in my post at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/physical-mental-health-issues/59344-confused.html#post1175425. If that description of BPD traits sounds very familiar, I suggest you read my more detailed description of BPD traits at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522.

I caution that, even if your H does have bipolar disorder, that doesn't rule out his also having strong BPD traits. A recent study of about 35,000 American adults (pub. 2008) found that half of the male bipolar sufferers also had full-blown BPD. 

This distinction between the two disorders is very important because, whereas bipolar usually can be treated quite successfully by simply swallowing a pill, BPD cannot be treated with medication. Instead, it takes years of intensive therapy to treat it and it is rare for a BPDer to remain in treatment long enough to make a difference.


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## kescalante (May 18, 2013)

You know that does sound much more likely. I will go read up on that. Currently he has told me that we aren't for each other as he wants a subservient and obedient wife and mistook me for that. Jeez, I'm not sure if that's the most honest answer, wacky answer or both I've heard to date! This is all so painful at the same time. He is treating me like used goods. I've poured all my love into this and now being told I will never be what he wants because he mistook me as obedient. ... I feel lost and completely detached. But I have to be strong for the kids.
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## kescalante (May 18, 2013)

I'd like to add in that I'm now reading about BPD and there's one part about how BPD can make the individual seemingly forget all about the emotions and anger they experienced and not understand why your still hurt or upset. This fits him perfectly. Not just with me, he has destroyed his relationship with his father and step mother through this. When Iived with him and his mother, they were both this way so I wonder how much of it is BPD and learned behavior. They would argue fiercely, then a minute later go smoke a cigarette and joke around. It seems as if they expect everyone else to do the same.
I did feel I was going insane in Arkansas an have become stronger since moving closer to a supportive family. He's had a long pattern of this since childhood, at least since he was 14 that I know of. I almost struggle to decide if he is as calculated as a narcissist or uncontrollable as BPD. I guess I just hate to believe that he truly does not care at times even when he plainly tells me he doesn't. He told me a week and a half ago that he cares and knows he treats me wrong. Then 2 or 3 days later told me honestly he doesn't care. Now, he's saying I'm not all that important and that he wants to start over with someone new. Used toy, much? Drain me of everything and move on? I'm incredibly hurt and do feel like a broken old toy being tossed aside. And still I wonder if anything will ever work out between us, ever. Maybe if we didn't have kids but now? This isn't healthy for them and his spending habits are ridiculous and unsupportive for a family. He's lost his new job because he didn't want to show up to work. He can't even support himself let alone two kids and a wife.
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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

kescalante said:


> BPD can make the individual seemingly forget all about the emotions and anger they experienced and not understand why your still hurt or upset. This fits him perfectly.


That behavior is the black-white thinking I describe in my post at the second link provided above. BPDers (i.e., those having strong BPD traits) have a fragile, unstable sense of who they are -- and they typically have the emotional development of a four year old. They therefore are very intolerant of dualities. 

This means they cannot tolerate ambiguities, mixed feelings, uncertainties, or other grey areas when it comes to interpersonal relationships. The result is that they will shoehorn everyone into a black or white box where you are either "all good" or "all bad." Moreover, in just a few seconds, they will recategorize someone from one polar extreme ("with me") to the other ("against me") based solely on a minor comment or infraction.


> Not just with me, he has destroyed his relationship with his father and step mother through this.


The vast majority of BPDers are high functioning, which means they usually get along fine with casual friends, business associates, and total strangers. None of those folks poses a threat to the BPDer's two great fears: abandonment and engulfment. There is no close relationship to be abandoned and no intimacy to cause the suffocating feeling of engulfment. This is why BPDers usually end up destroying family relationships and close friendships even though they may get along just fine with everyone else.


> They would argue fiercely, then a minute later go smoke a cigarette and joke around. It seems as if they expect everyone else to do the same.


Because a BPDer is intolerant of mixed feelings, he typically will allow himself to be in touch only with one set of feelings (e.g., love or hate) at a time. My BPDer exW, for example, would throw a screaming temper tantrum for several hours and then suddenly flip to adoring me and wanting to jump into bed with me. 

Because she had been doing that black-white thinking her entire lifetime, she could not imagine why I did not think the same way. She therefore was convinced that I "held grudges" that prevented me from shedding the angry feelings in a few moments.


> When I Iived with him and his mother, they were both this way so I wonder how much of it is BPD and learned behavior.


To a large extent, BPD is a "learned behavior." Although nobody knows for certain, BPD is believed to be caused by genetics and/or an invalidating environment in early childhood (e.g., emotional abuse or abandonment). This seems to be how it is passed from one generation to the other.


> I did feel I was going insane in Arkansas.


If you've been living with a BPDer for several years, "insane" is exactly how you should be feeling. Of the 157 disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual, BPD is the one most notorious for making the abused partners feel like they may be losing their minds. It is extremely disorienting to live with a person who flips in seconds between adoring you to devaluing you.


> He's had a long pattern of this since childhood, at least since he was 14 that I know of.


BPD traits typically start showing strongly in the early teens (being exacerbated by the hormone changes in puberty and the struggle to make friends outside the home). Bipolar traits typically start later -- in the late teens or early adult years.


> I almost struggle to decide if he is as calculated as a narcissist or uncontrollable as BPD.


Both are uncontrollable. One major difference is that, whereas a BPDer is capable of loving you (while splitting you white), a narcissist is incapable of ever loving you. A second difference is that, whereas a BPDer is emotionally unstable (thus flipping between loving and devaluing you), a narcissist is very stable. A third difference is that, unlike the narcissist, a BPDer typically is not grandiose. 

These are the three reasons I thought your description is much closer to BPD traits than NPD traits. But narcissism -- like bipolar -- is NOT necessarily ruled out when a person has strong BPD traits. In the 2008 study I mentioned above, nearly a third of the BPDers also exhibited strong traits of NPD. Moreover, all BPDers exhibit some aspects of narcissism when they are splitting you black.


> I guess I just hate to believe that he truly does not care at times even when he plainly tells me he doesn't.


I suggest you believe it if he has strong BPD traits. As I noted above, a BPDer cannot tolerate being in touch with all of his feelings (hate and love) at the same time. He therefore "splits off" the opposing feelings, putting them out of touch of his conscious mind. 

This is the way a 3 or 4 year old child behaves. That is, the child will absolutely adore Mommy when she is handing him a set of toys. But he will hate Mommy -- turning into a belligerent rage in seconds -- when she takes one of the toys away. Does the child love you? Of course he does but he is incapable of tolerating strong mixed feelings until he has sufficient maturity to integrate the various aspects of his own self image.


> He told me a week and a half ago that he cares and knows he treats me wrong. Then 2 or 3 days later told me honestly he doesn't care.


If he is a BPDer, he likely was being truthful both times. A BPDer typically will blame his spouse for every misfortune but will still be unwilling to leave her. This is why the #2 best-selling BPD book is called _I Hate You, Don't Leave Me._


> His spending habits are ridiculous and unsupportive for a family.


My BPDer exW was the same way. One of the nine basic BPD symptoms is the lack of impulse control, which typically results in risky behavior such as binge spending or eating or drug abuse.


> He's lost his new job because he didn't want to show up to work. He can't even support himself let alone two kids and a wife.


If he has strong BPD traits, his emotional development likely is only two years beyond that of your young children. If so, your relationship with him essentially is parent/child, not wife/husband. 

At issue, then, is whether your H has strong symptoms of BPD. Not having met him, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless am confident that you can learn to spot the red flags if you take time to read about the nine BPD warning signs. The symptoms are easy to spot when you know what to look for because we all exhibit these traits to some degree. There is nothing subtle about traits such as verbal abuse, temper tantrums, inability to trust, and lack of impulse control.


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## kescalante (May 18, 2013)

Yesterday morning he broke a promise that we both knew was a deal breaker so to speak. The consequence would be no matter last chances for us or him. He said a consistent combination of "I do t care" and "boo hoo I broke a promise". I told him that was it and I no longer wanted to talk or hear excuses/reasons/lies. He was happy about that for about 4 or so hours and downloaded adult chat programs to replace me since he was single, and I frequently tried to take walks to get some fresh air and be out of the house away from him and the hurt I felt around him. Every time I left the house he would follow after me and say he was also leaving for the day/evening/whenever and that I had to return to the house because the kids can't be left alone. I believed this the first time and went back but he didn't leave and the two times after that I eventually had to return regardless of knowing he was lying because I could not leave the kids unattended.

After I came back obviously mad that he was herding me around like a sheep I went to my room with the kids and shut myself in so at least I could have quiet there. Then he wanted to talk. It was a lot more of the same, blaming me for his mistake and his temporary lapse of memory for the consequences. Then he mentioned he still loved and was attracted to me (wanted to have sex) and after that was the 2 minute turn around. We walked around to the back fence and within two minutes his tone changed to sexual and he was making passes at me while I talked. Anything I said was passed along and sort of not seriously regarded, then he began saying the exact OPPOSITE of what was said before. He does care and he does love me as opposed to him not caring and hating me. He also saw he "F-ed up" and shouldn't have done what he did. Immediately after he kept wanting to get physical through hugs then kisses. I kept saying no and beig obviously uninterested.

Then groping, being slammed against the fence and held and when I said no he did not care. I had to tell him very clearly that if he didn't let me go I would never have anything do with him ever again. He let me go then moped that I didn't love him anymore and I went inside. We live with his family. I told his step mom briefly what had happened because she asked if I was ok and she told his dad. My husband came in acting like everything was jolly between us and then his dad called him upstairs a while later. His dad told him none of that sort of aggressive behaivor was to ever happen in his house again. Then my husband came down, told me we were over (when had that changed?) and went in the backyard. He laid down on the gross muddy ground for probably 30 minutes and acted completely withdrawn. He was crying and told me very meanly to go away and stay out of his life. I did go out and ask him what was going on with him, why was he saying two opposite things so close together (I kept the info about BPD in mind) and I was just told to go away. I told him I would be there when he truly wanted to work through his issues.

Again, mood change. He came inside after helping take out the trash from the back yard and started complaining about how achey and gross he was from laying in the mud. He started whining like he wanted me to take care of him. Then wanted to take a shower with me of all things after what he'd done and my obvious disinterest. When I said no he acted angry and like he had no idea why id be opposed. And that's not even everything. But it is the majority of it.
Now the day after (today) he is acting entirely rejuvanated and not sad or upset at all. He thinks we are on kissing and groping terms. What the heck????
Also why is this:
If he is a BPDer, he likely was being truthful both times. A BPDer typically will blame his spouse for every misfortune but will still be unwilling to leave her.
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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

kescalante said:


> Now the day after (today) he is acting entirely rejuvanated and not sad or upset at all. He thinks we are on kissing and groping terms. What the heck????


If he has strong BPD traits, that is exactly the behavior that is to be expected. BPDers are very reactive to whatever intense feelings they are experiencing at the moment. Those feelings generally define their reality because they lack the emotional maturity to intellectually challenge the feelings. Instead of challenging them, they accept the feelings as accurately reflecting reality. 

As I noted earlier, they are able to flip so quickly from one mood to the other because they do black-white thinking, wherein they split off all the opposing feelings. They allow themselves to consciously be in touch with only one set of feelings at a time.


> Also why is this: If he is a BPDer, he likely was being truthful both times.


With a BPDer, the "truth" changes with his changes in feelings. Like a four year old, he believes you love him dearly when you're bringing out his toys -- and he will believe, just as sincerely, that you don't love him when you take one of the toys away. Like young children, BPDers have great difficulty with "object constancy," i.e., recognizing that you feel the same about him from day to day. 

They also have great difficulty with "duality," i.e., recognizing that every human being is simultaneously comprised of conflicting traits and feelings. That is, we all have mixed feelings about each other. Because a BPDer cannot tolerate that ambiguity, he will shoehorn everyone into a black or white box -- so it is easier for him to know how to deal with people.


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