# Newlywed Infidelity



## Reeling (Feb 25, 2013)

My 30 yo daughter has been married for five months. She has admitted to my distraught son-in-law that prior to their wedding she had "developed feelings" for someone she works with, and that they have been having sex for two months. What happens next is none of my business of course, except in a practical sense, or if my advice is asked for, I'm a spectator. Yet I'm worried. My daughter acknowledges her wrongdoing, but in a detatched way that makes me doubt her sincerity. Rather, I suspect she feels precious little remorse. I simply don't know what to think. Whilst I'll always stand by my daughter, I'm appalled and even repulsed as details of her cruel, callous and manipulative behaviour emerges. I feel as though I never knew her, and I bleed for her young husband. Any thoughts?


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Direct your son in law here lol. 

And obviously divorce is the only option. Or annulment.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Direct your son in law here lol.


Actually, this is the best thing, he should come here and get advice.



Shadow_Nirvana said:


> And obviously divorce is the only option. Or annulment.


:iagree:

It's early on on the marriage and I'm assuming there are no children. Your son in law has made a mistake in marrying your daughter and he should get out of it as quick as possible. There is no reconciling from this kind of betrayal at this stage of the game.

If I were you, I would also consider, as her father, to try to get her into counseling. She clearly has serious issues, given this behavior.

--------------------

*EDIT:* Is she still having sex with this other man? If so, in my opinion, you are under a moral obligation to tell your son in law about it.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

Reeling said:


> My 30 yo daughter has been married for five months. She has admitted to my distraught son-in-law that prior to their wedding she had "developed feelings" for someone she works with, and that they have been having sex for two months. What happens next is none of my business of course, except in a practical sense, or if my advice is asked for, I'm a spectator. Yet I'm worried. My daughter acknowledges her wrongdoing, but in a detatched way that makes me doubt her sincerity. Rather, I suspect she feels precious little remorse. I simply don't know what to think. Whilst I'll always stand by my daughter, I'm appalled and even repulsed as details of her cruel, callous and manipulative behaviour emerges. I feel as though I never knew her, and I bleed for her young husband. Any thoughts?



As a parent, you know this will not end well. Your daughter is cheating on her H at the very beginning of this marriage, which shows she has no love or respect for her spouse. Why did she marry him? Thoughts?

The failure of this marriage is written on the wall. It needs to end before any children are brought forth from this union. Perhaps you can instruct you daughter that if she refuses to tell her H, you will. It's understandable that you will always love your daughter no matter what, so she needs to be convinced that ending this marriage is best for all concerned.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Are you implying that your daughter wants to stay in the marriage and that she doesn't care what she has done? Your son ln law does know?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Who did she cheat with?


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## Farmer_J (Jan 15, 2013)

I'd have to day, most parents will stand by their wayward children regardless of what they do. 
Some will even help in keeping the affair a secret from the betrayed in-law.
Its sickening to see that sort of behavior.

I'm glad that you can see thru all the garbage & see the damage that an affair will do.
Like someone else stated, direct your son-in-law to this forum. 

This is not his fault....you have to understand this. Nothing he did, caused him to deserve this.

What if your spouse did this to you...or if you have a son, his wife did this to your son...
Things like infidelity become real when it happens close to home.


When my mother in-law found out about her daughters affair....I got thrown under the bus immediately.
Her brother though was not supportive of her.....said that I should divorce his sister.


I believe things like Infidelity are part of a truth or moral test.
You have to take a stand on what you think is right & wrong.

It reminds me of a famous country song that has the lyrics:
"If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

The best thing your son in law can do at this point in time is, to quote Snagglepuss, "Exit, stage left".


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

Admonish the sinner.


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

chapparal said:


> Who did she cheat with?


She cheated with one of her co workers.

In the advising of your daughter:

Do not stay silent when meeting with wrong doings of your children.

You are not judging her, you are helping her and everyone involved with her.

Do not condone her wrongdoings by "standing by her", that is permissiveness. If you advise her, then advise with true love for your daughter for what she did was wrong. You do not hate or judge her but her actions are unacceptable for someone that is married.

She doesn't need excuses, nor rationalization or minimization. 


I would say that is a good start.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

I would have a talk with your sil and tell him whatever decision he makes r or divorce you understand and it's not his fault. Your daughter should have called off the wedding-sigh. This is the honeymoon period what is she going to do in a few years when couples have day to day issues. She needs some ic bad!


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

How do you know of this affair?
Who told you& why?

Depending on how you got this info you should sit down with your daughter and find out where her head is at/
Tell her how you feel about what she has done and advise her to end the marriage.
Trust isn't something that can be given, it has to be earned and it will take years if a rough marriage for your SIL to be able to trust her again IF it's even possible.

You seriously don't want your grandkids starting life inside that type of family dynamic
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

She admitted prior to the wedding to him and he still went through with it? Get him on this forum asap.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Tell her you will fund his annulment action. Then tell her you will cut her out of your will. And then adopt him as an adult adoption. And 'divorce' her. And I am being serious...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

In talking to your daughter, do you get any ideas as to why she even went through with the marriage ? You say she developed the feelings before they got married, but its unclear when the sex started.

Either way you son in law needs to divorce asap and move on with his life. 

Is your daughter still involved with the OM ? Do they still work together ?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

tom67 said:


> She admitted prior to the wedding to him and he still went through with it? Get him on this forum asap.


Tom, she gaslighted him like the pro she is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Tom, she gaslighted him like the pro she is.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sigh yea or he was in shock/denial is she still working at the same place?


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## SevenEight (Feb 6, 2013)

First I would like to say that I admire you for seeking help here. I married my stbxw just less than one year ago (together in a relationship 5 years total) and less than a month ago found out she has been in another relationship, physically cheating for the past month or so. She seems to still have a lot of love for me, but at the same time she's unwilling to end it with the other - says she isn't physical with him anymore (for now I guess) but still keeps in contact. She obviously still has a lot of feelings for this guy, even though he is also a cheater (wtf). 

It has been such a traumatic roller coaster ride for me - I actually really still wanted to somehow forgive and figure out a way to re-build, but I'm seeing more and more that this won't be possible given the way she acts, and how up and down she is. I have been beyond confused and hurt recently.

I know that she had reached out to others - that she told others what she was doing before, and none of them did anything other than support her. I would have hoped that at least one of them could have told her to at least end it with me first (or even better would have been to just sit down with me and tell me directly, to my face that apparently we had such severe problems in our marriage). So, I really admire you for reaching out for help, and I hope that you are able to get her to see a counselor to help figure things out, and to see that it's not right to do that to someone who thinks you are committed. 

I really feel for your son in law, if he truly felt like he loved her and was committed to her for life (as I was with my stbxw). The past month has been the absolute worst month of my life, and it sucks to know that your son in law is probably going through similar feelings.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

SIL should find out who this guy is and if he's married or gf expose to his so. Has this been exposed to both families? He should just get an annulment but this pos has to pay I'm sure he knew she was getting married but that's just me.


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## 67flh (Sep 26, 2011)

reeling, your permitting your daughter to carry on like this....why? my daughters 30 also,i would literally give her a b!tch slap across the head.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

67flh said:


> reeling, your permitting your daughter to carry on like this....why? my daughters 30 also,i would literally give her a b!tch slap across the head.


She is a grown @ss woman at 30 but that does not mean for a second you condone that behavior. If he wants get SIL on here.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

A ons is a mistake, this affair right before marriage is a choice jmo.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Someone who really loves you will tell you when you are wrong. Will bring about consequences to help you see the light. Your daughter is addicted to the chemical rush she gets from seeing the other man. She is not rational, she cannot be trusted to use reason or good sense. Instead, she will misuse reason to come up with stupid justifications for her behaviour.

You want to give them some good advice? Tell them to get an annulment or divorce. That's no foundation to build a life together. Support your daughter, but don't pander to her.


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## spudster (Jan 11, 2012)

As father of the bride I feel bad for you also because I am sure you shelled out a lot of money for the wedding. Truth is sir, your daughter is a fraud and she cheated you and your wife out of paying for a wedding that she was not even worthy of having. 

Do the right and moral thing and tell your son-in-law what happened. You can stand by your daughter by advising her to get counseling to understand why she would have done such a thing to the husband and family who loved and trusted her. 

She betrayed all of you, not just her husband. 

And yes, he needs to march down to the courthouse tomorrow and file for annulment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Direct HIM here. Takes YOU out of the loop. It is unfair to do otherwise if you even half like the man.

Matt.. tsk


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

If she's doing that type of thing that early in her marriage and is that cold about it, I wouldn't be surprised if she's just used to cheating on her partners. This early, she's just going to keep doing it. Tell the SIL so he can get an annulment or decide what he wants to do. He should know before he plans on starting to have a family with her so he can find somebody better.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Reeling, you need to get your SIL the book Surviving An Affair by Dr Harley. You need to never accept this OM in your life.

You need to get this OM out of your daughter's life. Daughter needs to quit her job with the OM.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

theroad said:


> Reeling, you need to get your SIL the book Surviving An Affair by Dr Harley. You need to never accept this OM in your life.
> 
> You need to get this OM out of your daughter's life. Daughter needs to quit her job with the OM.


Sorry but the SIL doesn't need a book on surviving an affair. He needs to see a lawyer.

The person that needs to go is not the OM, its the SIL. 5 months of marriage is no marriage at all.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

why stand by your daugther? that makes no sense.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Hicks said:


> why stand by your daugther? that makes no sense.


Blood IS thicker than In law.

That is why I agree with others and suggest (s)he send the SIL here. Takes Reeling out of the picture, (s)he gets to not argue with his/her daughter. Apparently SIL knows and is being total beta- accept it. We (at least try to) fix that here.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

Reeling said:


> . Whilst I'll always stand by my daughter, I'm appalled and even repulsed as details of her cruel, callous and manipulative behaviour emerges. I feel as though I never knew her, and I bleed for her young husband. Any thoughts?


If she's capable of this with her husband, then she is capable of the same with her father. 

So I'd be telling her about the appalled and repulsed part, and re-think the part about always standing by her.


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## JMGrey (Dec 19, 2012)

Reeling said:


> My 30 yo daughter has been married for five months. She has admitted to my distraught son-in-law that prior to their wedding she had "developed feelings" for someone she works with, and that they have been having sex for two months. What happens next is none of my business of course, except in a practical sense, or if my advice is asked for, I'm a spectator. Yet I'm worried. My daughter acknowledges her wrongdoing, but in a detatched way that makes me doubt her sincerity. Rather, I suspect she feels precious little remorse. I simply don't know what to think. Whilst I'll always stand by my daughter, I'm appalled and even repulsed as details of her cruel, callous and manipulative behaviour emerges. I feel as though I never knew her, and I bleed for her young husband. Any thoughts?


You say that you're going to "stand behind" your daughter, which is enabler-speak meaning that you're going to be superficially outraged at your daughter's behavior so as not to lose face in your social circle, while continuing to support her emotionally (and perhaps financially) without qualification or amendment of behavior. It's nothing less than justifying the affair. "Bleeding" for your son-in-law verbally is easy, yet doing so while coddling your swine offspring means gives it fvck-all worth. If you want your daughter to an adult and a decent person, cut her off.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Reeling said:


> My 30 yo daughter has been married for five months. She has admitted to my distraught son-in-law that prior to their wedding she had "developed feelings" for someone she works with, and that they have been having sex for two months. What happens next is none of my business of course, except in a practical sense, or if my advice is asked for, I'm a spectator. Yet I'm worried. My daughter acknowledges her wrongdoing, but in a detatched way that makes me doubt her sincerity. Rather, I suspect she feels precious little remorse. I simply don't know what to think. Whilst I'll always stand by my daughter, I'm appalled and even repulsed as details of her cruel, callous and manipulative behaviour emerges. I feel as though I never knew her, and I bleed for her young husband. Any thoughts?


I would disown my daughter frankly. Would want nothing to do with her.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> I would disown my daughter frankly. Would want nothing to do with her.


Mine is 15 if she pulls something like this in the future don't look for sympathy or funding from me.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

"Cut her off" is a bit harsh. She offended her SIL, not her father.

But...it strikes to character, as Reeling so correctly pointed out (and I'm surprised he hasn't responded back yet)

So...stand by your words. Your FAMILY (in the person of your daughter) WRONGED an innocent man...and did so for many months.

Find out what he wants, but again, being a man of CHARACTER, I would advise him against continuing the marriage if that is his desire. You, HER FATHER, sees that she doesn't seem that sorry.

Here is the conversation that I would have with my daughter.

First, she has besmirched the family to this man and wronged him. She has wasted his time and money. So she will give him the annulment asking for absolutely nothing and she will not blame him WHEN questions about this gets out. She will accept responsibilty for the failure without getting into the details. HIS reputation should be intact because he did nothing wrong.

Second, she has wasted the time and emotion of the family by her fraud. The wedding cost X dollars. She really needs to pay that money back considering she was screwing around with this OM *before* the wedding. If she refuses this, than I think that her old bedroom would make a dandy home office. Let her have a payment plan...but she needs to pay.

Third, I would help him move all her stuff out and making sure all the expenses of said move don't touch his pocket. She should be generous with what she leaves behind.

Fourth, tell her she needs counseling. She will likely refuse. You can't make a person better, particularly at 30.

Fifth, get the name of the OM. Strongly urge her to apologize to the man's wife or GF, explaining exactly what she did. If she has a whit of honor, she would also quit her job and expose to HR. But we know that she won't. I WOULD explain to her that this man is not welcome in the home or in the family and if she dares to bring him in as part of a 'couple' to the family, you will reveal this situation to the rest of the family if that's an option. Frankly, you should already reveal it to the rest of the family.

Sixth...don't trust her. Be careful what you say to her. Be careful what you offer her.

Now...I say this as a son who was thrown out of my father's house when I started what he considered an inappropriate relationship with my at the time GF. 

And I never blamed him for a minute. It was who he was. I was angry but I UNDERSTOOD. Yes, things were chilly, but by his lights, there was no way he could have acted any differently than he did.

(I married her...and the OTHER part of his character was, once that was done, they were fully behind the marriage...though it was still chilly)

None of this is to disown her. She's your daughter. People screw up. But she needs to undestand that the pain she inflicted didn't stop at her husband. It hurt you. It hurt her mother and this OM's family and her work.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Damn you people are rough!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Be a good father in law and advise your son in law to divorce her, and use all the influence you have with your daughter to get her to give him very generous divorce terms including her paying him back for money he spent on the wedding.

She obviously has zero interest in being married and married him under completely false vows.

She can't compensate him for the emotional scars she inflicted upon him, do she can at least compensate him for the money he wasted on her.


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## Tryingtobreath (Jan 2, 2013)

This story strikes home with me. 

I was married a little over a year ago. Found out a few months ago my NOW exwife was involved with a married man for the past 2 years. Even read some emails she had written him ON OUR HONEYMOON! Talk about low life.

As the affair started about the time I proposed and continued another two years, I have always felt bad for her parents that shelled out all that money for the wedding. Why the hell she went thru with a wedding based upon deceit is beyond me. The only thing I can think of is that in some twisted way my exwife thought after we got married she'd fix herself. 

Who knows. I haven't got the heart to tell her parents what REALLY happened. All they know is that she wanted out after less than a year because she was "unhappy". Yeah, unhappy bc she's in love with someone else.

My advice to the OP is to convince your mentally unstable daughter to own up to her husband. Its HIGHLY unfair to him and his life. In fact, it's BULLSH!T. I know. I'm now a 34 divorced guy. My whole situation should'nt have happened. She should've been honest with me and NOT gotten married.

SIDE NOTE: Just met the MOST beautiful woman. AND she's 6 years younger than my trashy ex.


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## JMGrey (Dec 19, 2012)

JCD said:


> "Cut her off" is a bit harsh. She offended her SIL, not her father.
> 
> But...it strikes to character, as Reeling so correctly pointed out (and I'm surprised he hasn't responded back yet)
> 
> ...


Here's my conversation with my daughter, in the world where I'm stupid enough to have children:

"You're not worthy of your husband. Come back when you can act like a grown woman."

If we lived in a world where people generally learned from their mistakes, where the attitudes of the populace in general towards sex, towards marriage, towards gender roles, towards boundaries and propriety, had some semblance of sanity, you could _maybe_ get away with the tough love approach. We do not, however, live in that world. The only way that you get through to people is to push them so violently out of their comfort zone that the shock breaks the back of the mentality that allows this sort of behavior. It's no different to helping to break a fog by immediately filing for divorce; so long as family and friends of WSs suffer their self-indulgent caterwauling they will never learn from their mistakes; this allows them to blame the BS because they're the only one that's effectively challenging their behavior, so it _must_ be their fault somehow.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

JMGrey said:


> Here's my conversation with my daughter, in the world where I'm stupid enough to have children:
> 
> "You're not worthy of your husband. Come back when you can act like a grown woman."
> 
> If we lived in a world where people generally learned from their mistakes, where the attitudes of the populace in general towards sex, towards marriage, towards gender roles, towards boundaries and propriety, had some semblance of sanity, you could _maybe_ get away with the tough love approach. We do not, however, live in that world. The only way that you get through to people is to push them so violently out of their comfort zone that the shock breaks the back of the mentality that allows this sort of behavior. It's no different to helping to break a fog by immediately filing for divorce; so long as family and friends of WSs suffer their self-indulgent caterwauling they will never learn from their mistakes; this allows them to blame the BS because they're the only one that's effectively challenging their behavior, so it _must_ be their fault somehow.


Breaking the filial and parental bonds should be harder than that. 

People do stupid screwed up things. Again, it goes to the 'better or worse' thinking.

So in general, IF the spouse shows true signs of remorse, they should get another shot. Children disappoint their parents.

This comes as a shock to the father. So she has not, heretofore, lived the life of a dissolute person. It is the repeated violation of family oaths and trust which cause a person to be anathma, thrown out, discarded.

It is a hard thing to do, casting aside a child. But I think there should also be repurcussions. 

My way, the daughter gets to choose her path in life. If she thinks what dad demands of her is unfair, she should have a conversation with her husband.


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## JMGrey (Dec 19, 2012)

JCD said:


> Breaking the filial and parental bonds should be harder than that.


Correcting one's child, whether adult or child, is the *fulfillment* of one's paternal responsibility. When they are a child and under one's care, one can chastise more effectively as the child lives under the parents' authority. What method of correction does the parent have other than to ostracize them?



JCD said:


> People do stupid screwed up things. Again, it goes to the 'better or worse' thinking.
> 
> So in general, IF the spouse shows true signs of remorse, they should get another shot. Children disappoint their parents.


A child disappoints their parents through petty theft or staying out too late. We're talking about something so corrosive to the fabric of society that it that it was among the few non-capital offensives, historically, for which you could kill another person. And it's precisely the sort of mollycoddling about poor judgement and "good people do bad things" nonsense that allows it to go on so effectively and with so little of the reprisal that would make the behavior have very unattractive consequences.

At best, a ONS could be called a "mistake". I don't believe that, as it still requires one's consent, but that would be one thing. His daughter has been habitually, happily and remorselessly screwing another guy months after, and presumably before she unashamedly promised fidelity to her husband. This is not a mistake or poor judgement. This is a _sociopathic_ lack of empathy on the part of this girl.



JCD said:


> This comes as a shock to the father. So she has not, heretofore, lived the life of a dissolute person.


That he knows. For all we know of her, this could be a long-time hobby of hers. I have trouble believing that one could be so callous with regards to one's marital vows the first time out of the gate. Is there anyone here at TAM that honestly thinks she's never cheated before, or that she hadn't cheated on her husband with other men at some point prior to the guy for whom she "developed feelings"? Please.


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## cj9947 (Jul 9, 2011)

If you were my MIL and I found out you withheld this information from me, I would cut you out of my life as an "enemy" to my marriage. If I reconciled with your daughter I would still minimize any future contact with you. I would make you regret not doing the right thing when you were supposed to.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

I love how he dumped this information on us and didn't follow through.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> I love how he dumped this information on us didn't follow through.


The old dump and run:iagree:


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

tom67 said:


> The old dump and run:iagree:


Or was it the pump and dump?


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

tom67 said:


> The old dump and run:iagree:


Well, he posted this morning. Might need time to think about the responses ... and he might have a day job.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Well, he posted this morning. Might need time to think about the responses ... and he might have a day job.


Or let's use the hockey term "dump and chase"


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

If this was my daughter I would be devastated. It would have to rank as one of the most disappointing things she could do.

I'm sure that you care about your SIL. He has done nothing wrong and he does not deserve this. I think if I was in your shoes I would sit her down and explain to her that either she tells him within a deadline or that you will tell him. Make it her choice but you are her father and she needs to own her mistakes. 

This poor guy she married ... he will be carrying this for a long time. Of course you will support your daughter and I would too but that doesn't mean you need to take her side or take sides at all. After a long marriage, I separated from my wife because she had really self-destructed. My biggest fear when it was time to tell others was what my father-in-law was going to say. Now of course he supported her ... but he also called me up to tell me he loved me, that he respects me and that if I made the decision I must have thought long and hard about it and did what was best. He told me he was there for me if I ever needed to talk about things. I don't know what your relationship is with your new SIL but do what you can to support him.

Beyond making sure she owns her mistakes, which includes a complete confession to her husband, you really should encourage her to go to counseling. She doesn't seem to completely understand the depth of her deception or why she did it.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

One other thing the OP should do. He should never enable her deceit by covering it up. He should never say his daughters marriage didn't just work out, or they broke up.

He should say each time, she lied to her husband, cheated on him, and she threw her marriage away.


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## 67flh (Sep 26, 2011)

think reeling has left the building,,,how dare we insult a fine upstanding woman like his daughter.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Tryingtobreath said:


> This story strikes home with me.
> 
> I was married a little over a year ago. Found out a few months ago my NOW exwife was involved with a married man for the past 2 years. Even read some emails she had written him ON OUR HONEYMOON! Talk about low life.
> 
> ...


Why didn't you tell them the truth? Don't they deserve the truth before they shell out a few more weddings?

I'd forward them the emails like right now.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

keko said:


> Why didn't you tell them the truth? Don't they deserve the truth before they shell out a few more weddings?
> 
> I'd forward them the emails like right now.


Absofreakinglutely!


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

LanieB said:


> Cheating after only a couple of months? There's no need working on this marriage. In fact, it's not even a real marriage - never was. They need to cut their losses and move on.


I very much agree with this.

My ex h started cheating before we married. He never gave up cheating. I left after a year. We did have a child together, but there was no way I'd spend my life with someone I couldn't trust. I cut my losses and I moved on.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

You stood by your daughter's side as she made vows to her husband in front of witnesses. 

She lied the whole time. Every word a lie. 

NOW you are troubled but will stand by her? I know it's her life and all decisions are hers to make. But you are a parent and will always be one. So I hope when you say you will "stand by her" I hope you don't mean you will support her decisions without somuch as a word of reproach.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Well, he posted this morning. Might need time to think about the responses ... and he might have a day job.


And the OP is in Australia.


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## Reeling (Feb 25, 2013)

First thing I want to say is a sincere "thank you" to every single person who has taken the time and invested their energy in responding to me. You can't know how much your goodwill (in various forms!), is helping. A couple of quick clarifications: I'm the mother of the "bride", and I live in Australia. I wrote the post in the early hours of the morning, and was equally relieved and nervous when first thing, I checked the forum. My daughter admitted to my sil, using trickle truth, that she had slept with this person. At first she told him she'd kissed and had feelings for Jerk. I refused to believe this and she admitted the sexual relationship. My husband and I then insisted she tell sil the truth. My sil is devastated and we've told him we love him, that he is too decent a person to deserve this, and have offered him financial help (he earns considerably less than my daughter), in resettling. One of the first things I said to my daughter was it felt like a death, and in a way it is. We're all struggling with the thought of losing sil as a very loved member of our family. That's all I can manage right now. Thank you so very much.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Reeling said:


> My daughter acknowledges her wrongdoing, but in a detatched way that makes me doubt her sincerity. Rather, I suspect she feels precious little remorse. I simply don't know what to think.


In the event you read this, women don't feel remorse for cheating. When they cheat, they have little if any romantic feelings left for their S.O. and have justified seeing other men. More than likely your daughter is wallowing in resentment toward her marriage and has already classified him as an ex. He doesn't have to worry about salvaging his marriage. He's history.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Reeling said:


> First thing I want to say is a sincere "thank you" to every single person who has taken the time and invested their energy in responding to me. You can't know how much your goodwill (in various forms!), is helping. A couple of quick clarifications: I'm the mother of the "bride", and I live in Australia. I wrote the post in the early hours of the morning, and was equally relieved and nervous when first thing, I checked the forum. My daughter admitted to my sil, using trickle truth, that she had slept with this person. At first she told him she'd kissed and had feelings for Jerk. I refused to believe this and she admitted the sexual relationship. My husband and I then insisted she tell sil the truth. My sil is devastated and we've told him we love him, that he is too decent a person to deserve this, and have offered him financial help (he earns considerably less than my daughter), in resettling. One of the first things I said to my daughter was it felt like a death, and in a way it is. We're all struggling with the thought of losing sil as a very loved member of our family. That's all I can manage right now. Thank you so very much.


You are doing the right thing. Please don't let her shed crocodile tears and try to reconcile with her husband. Kudos for your effort at extending a helping hand to your STBXSIL.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> In the event you read this, *women don't feel remorse for cheating*. When they cheat, they have little if any romantic feelings left for their S.O. and have justified seeing other men. More than likely your daughter is wallowing in resentment toward her marriage and has already classified him as an ex. He doesn't have to worry about salvaging his marriage. He's history.


Gross generalization. The bolded part specially; it's simply untruth. It also mix some things; being remorseful is not incompatible with being detached of lacking of romantic feelings for your betrayed ones. Apples and oranges.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Reeling said:


> First thing I want to say is a sincere "thank you" to every single person who has taken the time and invested their energy in responding to me. You can't know how much your goodwill (in various forms!), is helping. A couple of quick clarifications: I'm the mother of the "bride", and I live in Australia. I wrote the post in the early hours of the morning, and was equally relieved and nervous when first thing, I checked the forum. My daughter admitted to my sil, using trickle truth, that she had slept with this person. At first she told him she'd kissed and had feelings for Jerk. I refused to believe this and she admitted the sexual relationship. My husband and I then insisted she tell sil the truth. My sil is devastated and we've told him we love him, that he is too decent a person to deserve this, and have offered him financial help (he earns considerably less than my daughter), in resettling. One of the first things I said to my daughter was it felt like a death, and in a way it is. We're all struggling with the thought of losing sil as a very loved member of our family. That's all I can manage right now. Thank you so very much.


Reeling, we will be here for you, your husband and your son in law. And for your daughter, should she decide to come on to TAM. And stranger things have happened.

You and your husband have been very brave and the fact you are willing to help your Son in Law tells me a great deal about the values that you live by, and that your daughter has -sadly- somehow forgotten.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

I hope your daughter is chipping in to help him resettle. After all, she caused this abomination.

Ditto the divorce settlement.


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## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

Reeling said:


> First thing I want to say is a sincere "thank you" to every single person who has taken the time and invested their energy in responding to me. You can't know how much your goodwill (in various forms!), is helping. A couple of quick clarifications: I'm the mother of the "bride", and I live in Australia. I wrote the post in the early hours of the morning, and was equally relieved and nervous when first thing, I checked the forum. My daughter admitted to my sil, using trickle truth, that she had slept with this person. At first she told him she'd kissed and had feelings for Jerk. I refused to believe this and she admitted the sexual relationship. My husband and I then insisted she tell sil the truth. My sil is devastated and we've told him we love him, that he is too decent a person to deserve this, and have offered him financial help (he earns considerably less than my daughter), in resettling. One of the first things I said to my daughter was it felt like a death, and in a way it is. We're all struggling with the thought of losing sil as a very loved member of our family. That's all I can manage right now. Thank you so very much.


Have your husband call the jerk. Call him at work. Inform him he is not welcome in your home and you will never acept someone like him. Tell him in 30 days your husband is going to come in and see his boss.

Nothing like dad puttting his foot down. You do not need anyone like him in your family. Make sure he knows that.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

The SIL deserves someone so much better then your daughter, sorry if that hurt you. But think about it, anyone that cheats 3 months after marriage(most likely it began much earlier so around honeymoon as well, maybe even before the wedding?) has to have some serious problems. Either you weren't a good parent in teaching her what's right and wrong or she has some mental problems. In either case it'll be a wise choice to get her to counseling so maybe, just maybe she can fix herself for the better.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

keko said:


> The SIL deserves someone so much better then your daughter, sorry if that hurt you. But think about it, anyone that cheats 3 months after marriage(most likely it began much earlier so around honeymoon as well, maybe even before the wedding?) has to have some serious problems. Either you weren't a good parent in teaching her what's right and wrong or she has some mental problems. In either case it'll be a wise choice to get her to counseling so maybe, just maybe she can fix herself for the better.


When I left my house, I started making my own decisions which my father would not approve of. They weren't always bad decisions either.

This is not to defend the actions of the daughter but to highlight that just because one is taught the correct thing doesn't always mean that the child always cleaves to the straight and narrow.

So...when you went off to college or work, did YOU follow all your parents doctrines...or did you 'play' a bit?

Just putting things in perspective. This is of th same kind, but of a much greater degree. As we say, we are only responsible for ourselves


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Your SIL should let HR and the boss know your daughter is cheating with a guy at work.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Moral failings don't necessarily reflect on upbringing nor are they signs of mental problems. They are just that moral failings - they can be corrected but that requires character. Something the daughter lacks - not to mention integrity.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Acabado said:


> Gross generalization. The bolded part specially; it's simply untruth.


Perhaps so. I cannot say with absolute certainty that no woman is remorseful for cheating. :beer:


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Entropy3000 said:


> I would disown my daughter frankly. Would want nothing to do with her.


Your wrong!
You can disagree with her but not having nothing to do with her will only find guidence else were.
What the hell do you think she is going to go to if she can't at the very least have a disagreement with her own dad?

Not saying ypu ahve to except her sh1t but at least leave the dialogue open.

Damb E- you got me so worked up I cant'e even spell the easy words!

In short if she doesn't have an advisery that she respects who else will she even listen to? 

What the phuck, the one guy that might get thru to her just bailed!!!!!!!!!!!!!:scratchhead:


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

I would not disown my children for anything short of mass murder.

This includes being gay, having nudie pics on the internet, becoming a swinger, cheater, hotwife or pornstar. I would not help them in any way if some of these things happened but in the end. My kid is my kid. I get it. Reeling loves her daughter. It does not mean I approve.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Thank you for the reply. My parents are like you two and that is a compliment. You are doing the honorable thing it's good to hear when this happens but very sad for your family take care.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

@reeling, your daughter needs you more now then ever in her life ............no matter how much you disagree with her, you have an oppertunity to make a difference....even in her adult years!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

weightlifter said:


> I would not disown my children for anything short of mass murder.
> 
> This includes being gay, having nudie pics on the internet, becoming a swinger, cheater, hotwife or pornstar. I would not help them in any way if some of these things happened but in the end. My kid is my kid. I get it. Reeling loves her daughter. It does not mean I approve.


I would visit my kid in state, no matter how many AP they killed. LOL

Its not about support, but about guidence, and preparing my kid for the electric chair!

Again, one can not support their kidscrime, but you can support their consequence, and be there for them on their last day.

does that even make sence?

Your daughter is screwing around ....can you support the consequence they have to face versus enableing them to repeat he same behavior over agian?


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

Oh man this sucks


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## WTHiswrong (Feb 18, 2013)

JustPuzzled said:


> Maybe this is the wrong time to interject, but can people please get the difference between "your" and "you're"?
> 
> I am not singling you out, The Guy, it's all over the place.
> 
> Alte Dame, where are you?!


:rofl:


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## RAN (Oct 14, 2012)

Reeling said:


> *and have offered him financial help (he earns considerably less than my daughter), in resettling.*



RESETTLING with your Daughter ? If so are you bribing SIL Financially to live with your Daughter. :scratchhead:

Please explain.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

RAN said:


> RESETTLING with your Daughter ? If so are you bribing SIL Financially to live with your Daughter. :scratchhead:
> 
> Please explain.


They are looking at helping him move out and move on.

As she earns more than him she might have issues with that. Felt he'd have to suck it up.

Reeling, is it possible your daughter is a high functioning Asperger's syndrome sufferer? I have experience of how this can cause problems.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## spudster (Jan 11, 2012)

She sounds like a high functioning brat. A selfish, entitled, heartless brat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

JustPuzzled said:


> Maybe this is the wrong time to interject, but can people please get the difference between "your" and "you're"?
> 
> I am not singling you out, The Guy, it's all over the place.
> 
> Alte Dame, where are you?!


You are right. It WAS the wrong time to interject.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Regga (Jan 22, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Reeling, is it possible your daughter is a high functioning Asperger's syndrome sufferer? I have experience of how this can cause problems.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are on to something here, I think!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Aspergers people know right from wrong. This girl doesn't.


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## Regga (Jan 22, 2013)

Just because people know right from wrong doesn't mean they chose right. I think Matt is trying to say that her flat affect toward the affair could be an explanation. But we don't know her!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JMGrey (Dec 19, 2012)

Regga said:


> Just because people know right from wrong doesn't mean they chose right. I think Matt is trying to say that her flat affect toward the affair could be an explanation. But we don't know her!!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm troubled sometimes by the knee-jerk reliance on mental illness to explain the actions of wayward spouses, especially those that affect social reasoning or the formation of emotional bonds, like Asperger Syndrome. It's almost like _Criminal Minds_, where it seems everyone and their brother is a serial killer, despite the real BAU insisting there are only between 20 - 50 active serials at any time.

The median prevalence of autism spectrum disorders, globally, is a little more than 1 in 161, or about 0.6% of the population; there is some data that this approaches 1 in 88 in the continental US, though one could certainly argue that that has more to do with script-happy doctors trying to pigeonhole children rather than actually treat them. Of those, the high end of Asperger representation is 1 in 16, which means that it accounts for mere hundredths of a percent of the population. I'm not saying that it doesn't account for some of the kind of behavior we see reported on this form, I just don't believe it constitutes more than a very small fraction.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

JustPuzzled said:


> Maybe this is the wrong time to interject, but can people please get the difference between "your" and "you're"?
> 
> I am not singling you out, The Guy, it's all over the place.
> 
> Alte Dame, where are you?!


This kind of thing used to bother me................................then I got a Samsung Tab II for Christmas with a touch screen. Now I have nothing but sympathy for people trying to submit a mseesage. In my case, android or samsung or both are in league with satan. There is no way to predict what is going to happen when you touch that screen.


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## Regga (Jan 22, 2013)

You are right JMGrey. Mental illness is overdiagnosed and a quick solution to a problem. I'm not wanting to steal this thread, so I'll just leave it at that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## spudster (Jan 11, 2012)

This girl isn't mentally ill, she's morally ill.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Excuse me.

We don't KNOW this girl. She could read to blind children, rescuse kittens out of trees...and cheat on her husband.

*A* moral defect does not encompass the whole of a person any more than having a bum legs defines all of person.

That being said, she has a character DEFECT.

Mom is correct to be concerned at how disaffected she is and should probably have some long and intense conversations about how she viewed this marriage from the beginning.

Many people rush into a marraige for idiotic reasons. They are young, they are old, their biological clock is ticking, this is the best that they've come across who asked (and 'the best' just ain't that good), etc.

So I'd ask exactly how much 'in love' this girl actually was with this guy. Because believe it or not, not every man (or WOMAN) is God's gift to the other gender (or so I've heard. Not that I've experienced it myself )

That doesn't justifiy her actions. It might explain them...and her current attitude.


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## JMGrey (Dec 19, 2012)

JCD said:


> Excuse me.
> 
> We don't KNOW this girl. She could read to blind children, rescuse kittens out of trees...and cheat on her husband.


Civic activity is not directly indicative of a moral person. It's been my experience that those who abandon traditional concepts of morality are the staunchest and most vocal advocates of combatting "social evils."



JCD said:


> *A* moral defect does not encompass the whole of a person any more than having a bum legs defines all of person.


That's hardly an appropriate analogy. No one chooses to be crippled. Whether through circumstances of birth or as a result of personal action, the intention was not to be crippled.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Aspergers people know right from wrong. This girl doesn't.


Yes, but if they do not understand how their action might not be perceived as right for other people, then problems can abound.

As in:

"I have had really great, enjoyable sex with my lover. My husband wants me to be happy so, well, he will be happy for me that I have had really great, enjoyable sex with my lover! Oh... but why is my husband crying? I can't understand that at all."


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## spudster (Jan 11, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Yes, but if they do not understand how their action might not be perceived as right for other people, then problems can abound.
> 
> As in:
> 
> "I have had really great, enjoyable sex with my lover. My husband wants me to be happy so, well, he will be happy for me that I have had really great, enjoyable sex with my lover! Oh... but why is my husband crying? I can't understand that at all."


Wow. Is this how your wife justified her affair?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

spudster said:


> Wow. Is this how your wife justified her affair?


Oh... Actually, now I think about it, yeah... that was pretty much it. Yet she didn't try to justify herself, it just was how it was.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ever-Man (Jan 25, 2013)

I read the initial post, and since my X Wayward, serial cheating wife did the same (started an affair 2 months after we were married), I have some "life-experience" that may be useful. 

So my X and I were dating for 7 years, got married, and 2 months later she was cheating on me. Anyway, she was cheating before we got married and all after as well, until one of her AP agreed to marry her. That was 10 years after we got married, in which time we bought a house, had children, I quit my job to be a stay-at-home-Dad and raise our 2 small boys, which is when she met "the one" and left with the kids. 

Do you want to see this scenario play out in your grandaughters life? Do you want her to have kids with the H, and continue to cheat on him, and eventually destroy a family? It is easy for them to divorce now, without kids or deep financial ties, she is clearly not in love with him, he is not the ONE. 

If I knew my wife had cheated on me 2 months after we got married, I would never had kids with her, or quit my job and set myself up to have a ruined life.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Yet she didn't try to justify herself, it just was how it was.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'll preface this by saying this may not be true of all women but many think, "why should I feel bad for being disloyal to some dude for whom I no longer have romantic feelings and/or respect?"


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> I'll preface this by saying this may not be true of all women but many think, "why should I feel bad for being disloyal to some dude for whom I no longer have romantic feelings and/or respect?"


*But!* My wife still had romantic feelings and love for me. Crazy, but there you have it. We are still together 16 years after her affair.

It's possible that Reeling's daughter still has romantic feelings for her husband but cannot get her head round how badly she has broken his heart.


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## Reeling (Feb 25, 2013)

MattMatt and Regga I've slept on your suggestion of Asbergers, would certainly explain a lot! My daughter (md), however is bubbly, vivacious, extroverted and adept at reading social settings. But. Her biological father, from whom I separated when md was two, has bipolar disorder, and this behaviour does come on the back of a depressive episode. Have decided that one of my conditions for continuing to support md will be a full psychiatric evaluation (md has already agreed to counselling). I realise how harsh this sounds, but for the sake of all her relationships this toxic behaviour must never be repeated, and md has to do everything within her power to ensure this. Not that I could cut her off, but I am capable of withdrawing the fierce protectiveness and unconditional acceptance she has at times relied on from me.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Reeling said:


> MattMatt and Regga I've slept on your suggestion of Asbergers, would certainly explain a lot! My daughter (md), however is bubbly, vivacious, extroverted and adept at reading social settings. But. Her biological father, from whom I separated when md was two, has bipolar disorder, and this behaviour does come on the back of a depressive episode. Have decided that one of my conditions for continuing to support md will be a full psychiatric evaluation (md has already agreed to counselling). I realise how harsh this sounds, but for the sake of all her relationships this toxic behaviour must never be repeated, and md has to do everything within her power to ensure this. Not that I could cut her off, but I am capable of withdrawing the fierce protectiveness and unconditional acceptance she has at times relied on from me.


Reeling, my wife is a (very) High Functioning Asperger's. She has three degrees (firsts), a Masters and what is in effect two Doctorates. She can be bubbly, vivacious, witty and appear to be extrovert. But, sometimes she does weird things. She had an affair, but she knew it wasn't that bad, as she told me in advance that she was going to have the affair.

I qualified as a counsellor some years ago, but never practised, so I feel unable to offer a real diagnosis about your daughter. But from what I can recall there could be a genetic component in bipolar disorders.

However, I was able to reconcile with my wife and 16 years later, we are still together.

Is there a possibility of SIL and md getting back together? Especially if there is some form of mental health basis for her cheating that could be controllable with medication?


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> Yes, but if they do not understand how their action might not be perceived as right for other people, then problems can abound.
> 
> As in:
> 
> "I have had really great, enjoyable sex with my lover. My husband wants me to be happy so, well, he will be happy for me that I have had really great, enjoyable sex with my lover! Oh... *but why is my husband crying? I can't understand that at all*."


Matt

With all due respect. Aspie´s do know right from wrong.The learn that over time.Kinsa like trial and error. It´s myth that 
for some reason still hang´s around..
The bolded part is most likley because in you´r case 
You´r wife iinformed you in advance.And i assume it was not meet with alot of opposition from you,so she went a head and
did it...And there in lies the problem.. 

I told him,so he new.So it was not like i was hiding it..
So whats the problem know then??
People often confuse "dont understand" and Aspie´s super direct honosty. It´s more of a lack of understanding the unwritten rules´s...

I hope this make´s any sense.It´s difficult to explain this in writing. And PLEASE Matt dont take this as an attack on you..

I cant and wont dispute that in your case with your wife. Is not true


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

Ps

And can we ALL please stop throwing mental disorder explanation´s
out left and right..


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## Reeling (Feb 25, 2013)

And yet, and yet...as JMGrey and JCD point out in different ways, md's behaviour is unlikely to be explained by mental illness alone. Md chose to act on her baser impulses. Brain chemistry might well be a contributing factor, but md's paid to interpret the law, and to ensure her clients stay within it. In fact during this period her career has flourished. I know this is muddled reasoning, but while I'm going to insist md seeks psychiatric evaluation, and support her through the process, I'm afraid that something far more serious and intractable is wrong with her basic moral framework. 30 years ago her biological father told me he valued expediency over truth. He's certainly proved his point since. He has also treated md with a staggering disregard for her feelings and needs, but I hoped surrounding her with love, stability and opportunity would have an insulating effect. Md's recent actions and if I'm honest, past behaviour fill me with fear that she has never developed a capacity for kindness, self discipline or critical self evaluation, regardless of how hard I've tried. Now she's an adult my influence is much reduced, but my sense of responsibility and connectedness are the same. Any thoughts?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Jonesey said:


> Matt
> 
> With all due respect. Aspie´s do know right from wrong.The learn that over time.Kinsa like trial and error. It´s myth that
> for some reason still hang´s around..
> ...


Oh, the brutal: "You are f***king fat!" direct approach. Oh, yes, I know all about that...

There were reasons why I handled my wife's announcement in the way I did, but they aren't relevant to this thread.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Reeling said:


> And yet, and yet...as JMGrey and JCD point out in different ways, md's behaviour is unlikely to be explained by mental illness alone. Md chose to act on her baser impulses. Brain chemistry might well be a contributing factor, but md's paid to interpret the law, and to ensure her clients stay within it. In fact during this period her career has flourished. I know this is muddled reasoning, but while I'm going to insist md seeks psychiatric evaluation, and support her through the process, I'm afraid that something far more serious and intractable is wrong with her basic moral framework. 30 years ago her biological father told me he valued expediency over truth. He's certainly proved his point since. He has also treated md with a staggering disregard for her feelings and needs, but I hoped surrounding her with love, stability and opportunity would have an insulating effect. Md's recent actions and if I'm honest, past behaviour fill me with fear that she has never developed a capacity for kindness, self discipline or critical self evaluation, regardless of how hard I've tried. Now she's an adult my influence is much reduced, but my sense of responsibility and connectedness are the same. Any thoughts?


My word, Reeling! Just imagine how bad she could have been without your influence!

Perhaps md should not consider marriage? At least not until she has herself straightened out, mentally?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I'm thinking there is something seriously wrong with a 30 year old woman who is advising clients in the law while she is cheating with a coworker.

What consequences is she facing for her deliberate choice to cheat and to lie? It sounds like none at all.

In fact how long until she brings the filth she is cheating with around to meet mom? Are you going to make him dinner and wish them well?

She didn't cheat because of mental illness. If she was that mentally ill she should be in a home with supervision.

No, she cheated because she chose to. Because she decided that the pain she was going to inflict upon her husband was worth the fun she was going to have.

No she's enjoying her flourishing career working with the scumbag she's cheating with, and she is facing no consequences at all. Life is great and good, and as soon as she can dump her newly wed husband and stop hearing his unreasonable complaints, she can get back to 
her romance.

Io feel so very sorry for her husband. He did nothing to deserve how she has stolen his trust and love away. He'll have trouble forever in future relationships and will never ever be able to fully trust another person again, and yet she might go to a little IC to help her get better in touch with her feelings.

Sorry, but this is really upsetting me to see. Her being so hurtful and callous and not face any consequence or remorse.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> My word, Reeling! Just imagine how bad she could have been without your influence!
> 
> Perhaps md should not consider marriage? At least not until she has herself straightened out, mentally?


Doesn't this just feed the sense of its not my fault? I can do any nasty hurtful callous thing I want, but you can't hold me responsible?

I sorry, but if thus logic were true, then no aspie could ever be trusted, ever. It absolves them of responsibility and describes them in terms that are usually associated with psychopaths. 

Which I do not believe is at all true of aspies. I've had them around me and they do have strong senses of right and wrong, in fact Abe more black and white than others.

And they most certainly can be held accountable for their choices, including the choice to cheat.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Doesn't this just feed the sense of its not my fault? I can do any nasty hurtful callous thing I want, but you can't hold me responsible?
> 
> I sorry, but if thus logic were true, then no aspie could ever be trusted, ever. It absolves them of responsibility and describes them in terms that are usually associated with psychopaths.
> 
> ...


But in the case of my wife, Shaggy, she wasn't actually cheating, because she told me in advance! So, yes, that does fit in with the black and white thinking you have noticed.

But when she saw how really crushed and hurt I was by her affair, well, suddenly the fun went out of it.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Shaggy nailed it on the head

The terrible act of cheating thru the engagement, and into the early months of the mge---will leave this H-----scarred for life---he will be horribly wary of women from now on, to a fault-----and that just shouldn't be

It is a shame, there is no way for this cheating bride---to get the karma bus head on.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> I'm thinking there is something seriously wrong with a 30 year old woman who is advising clients in the law while she is cheating with a coworker.
> 
> What consequences is she facing for her deliberate choice to cheat and to lie? It sounds like none at all.
> 
> ...


I would guess that she is either a solicitor or a barrister. I have known some good honest solicitors and some not so. In fact, one I know treated his wife very badly indeed. And one married couple of solicitors had a party piece so rabidly disgusting that I will nor mention it here.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Reeling said:


> And yet, and yet...as JMGrey and JCD point out in different ways, md's behaviour is unlikely to be explained by mental illness alone. Md chose to act on her baser impulses. Brain chemistry might well be a contributing factor,* but md's paid to interpret the law, and to ensure her clients stay within it.* In fact during this period her career has flourished. I know this is muddled reasoning, but while I'm going to insist md seeks psychiatric evaluation, and support her through the process, I'm afraid that something far more serious and intractable is wrong with her basic moral framework. 30 years ago her biological father told me he valued expediency over truth. He's certainly proved his point since. He has also treated md with a staggering disregard for her feelings and needs, but I hoped surrounding her with love, stability and opportunity would have an insulating effect. Md's recent actions and if I'm honest, past behaviour fill me with fear that she has never developed a capacity for kindness, self discipline or critical self evaluation, regardless of how hard I've tried. Now she's an adult my influence is much reduced, but my sense of responsibility and connectedness are the same. Any thoughts?


OH! You can't hide information like that. She's had LEGAL training!

That puts the kibosh on any MORAL framework...


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Shaggy said:


> Sorry, but this is really upsetting me to see. Her being so hurtful and callous and not face any consequence or remorse.


Why would you expect her to show remorse or face consequences when she lost interest in her new, and soon to be, ex husband. If I've been reading this right, the wife discovered she is just not into her less ambitious and lower paid husband. Maybe she got tired of carrying this dude. My take is, and based on the limited information presented, the honeymoon is over and she is hoping he will take the hint inductive of her actions and ride off into the sunset.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> Why would you expect her to show remorse or face consequences when she lost interest in her new, and soon to be, ex husband. *If I've been reading this right, the wife discovered she is just not into her less ambitious and lower paid husband. Maybe she got tired of carrying this dude.* My take is, and based on the limited information presented, the honeymoon is over and she is hoping he will take the hint inductive of her actions and ride off into the sunset.


Uhhhh, and it took her until right _after_ she got married to realize this??

No, this doesn't get past my bullsh!t meter at all. She had plenty of time to figure this out before she got married and call it off. She just thought she could carry on getting married and keep her duplicitous lifestyle.

Well, obviously, she was wrong. 

This should be exposed to the law firm she works for. She's in NO position to be counseling people on legal ethics and morals.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

3putt said:


> Uhhhh, and it took her until right _after_ she got married to realize this??
> 
> No, this doesn't get past my bullsh!t meter at all. She had plenty of time to figure this out before she got married and call it off. She just thought she could carry on getting married and keep her duplicitous lifestyle.
> 
> ...


Come on she could have called it off the few months before when she was screwing around jeez!


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I wonder, does OZ allow alienation of affection? Could the husband go after the company ?


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> I wonder, does OZ allow alienation of affection? Could the husband go after the company ?


That is a good question!


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> I wonder, does OZ allow alienation of affection? Could the husband go after the company ?


I don't think so, but as I suggested above exposure to the firm should happen. 

Won't happen though as we're talking to the mother of "the bride".

Motherly instincts dictate that she will (in time) do what she has to do to protect her child from the true consequences her actions...regardless of what she's done.

Of course, that's not a very good lesson to be teaching.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

3putt said:


> No, this doesn't get past my bullsh!t meter at all. She had plenty of time to figure this out before she got married and call it off. She just thought she could carry on getting married and keep her duplicitous lifestyle.


According to the information presented, she doesn't seem care her husband knows about her screwing around and offers no apologies. For whatever reason she decided to cheat, I'll stick with, "the honeymoon is over and she is hoping he will take the hint indicative of her actions and ride off into the sunset." (Plus him needing his in-laws to underwrite his moving expenses won't give most women warm a fuzzy feelings.)
From my viewpoint, if you want the female to go hunt while you sit in the shade, you better be a African Lion.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

She wanted to cake eat pure and simple "normal" people are honest and break off a relationship. Oye!:slap:


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Reeling said:


> And yet, and yet...as JMGrey and JCD point out in different ways, md's behaviour is unlikely to be explained by mental illness alone. Md chose to act on her baser impulses. Brain chemistry might well be a contributing factor, but md's paid to interpret the law, and to ensure her clients stay within it. In fact during this period her career has flourished. I know this is muddled reasoning, but while I'm going to insist md seeks psychiatric evaluation, and support her through the process, I'm afraid that something far more serious and intractable is wrong with her basic moral framework. 30 years ago her biological father told me he valued expediency over truth. He's certainly proved his point since. He has also treated md with a staggering disregard for her feelings and needs, but I hoped surrounding her with love, stability and opportunity would have an insulating effect. Md's recent actions and if I'm honest, past behaviour fill me with fear that she has never developed a capacity for kindness, self discipline or critical self evaluation, regardless of how hard I've tried. Now she's an adult my influence is much reduced, but my sense of responsibility and connectedness are the same. Any thoughts?


Reeling, your responses demonstrate a great deal of consideration and honesty. No matter what your daughter has done, she is lucky to have you.


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## Reeling (Feb 25, 2013)

Thanks Shaggy, Tom67 and 3putt for your thoughts. I'm actually just trying to cope with this situation though, and am too stunned and angry to even think of practical consequences at this time, and I'm not really sure it's my place to impose them. Whatever happens, something very precious which has been carefully nurtured in our family is broken forever, and when the room stops spinning enough for me to think clearly, I won't be shielding md from any consequences. The reason I'm on this forum is because my family life was torn apart when I was a child, by my father's infidelity (only one of his failings). My mother literally fell apart when Dad went on overseas "holidays", going straight to bed, not able to cook or care for me for a month at a time from when I was 10. So infidelity is scarier for me than cancer, and md's actions are in worst nightmare territory. Whilst close friends are floored by md's behaviour, and kindness itself to me, I feel very grateful on this forum to be among people who really understand my sense of betrayal.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey Reeling---Please, Please, Please---tell/get/convince, the innocent betrayed newlywed H., to come here---he needs a support group, like no other---he needs to be able to talk, and get help---and there is no better place than this forum for that, also he needs to be directed to a good knowledgable IC-----his world has been cut away from him, and all his beliefs, about what is good in this world---are down the drain---he needs to vent, and discuss, and that is what we are here for----GET HIM TO COME HERE


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Reeling said:


> Thanks Shaggy, Tom67 and 3putt for your thoughts. I'm actually just trying to cope with this situation though, and am too stunned and angry to even think of practical consequences at this time, and I'm not really sure it's my place to impose them. Whatever happens, something very precious which has been carefully nurtured in our family is broken forever, and when the room stops spinning enough for me to think clearly, I won't be shielding md from any consequences.


. I knew how to parent, until I was actually a parent. Even if she is your "child" you do what you would with another adult take a deep breath, calm down and then have a conversation with no regrets. Taking the time to assess before you impose, balk or decide to do nothing is the right course of action.

Still, whether you impose consequences or not, you need to make sure she understands what she did is reprehensible to you and your moral integrity. My parents gave me advice, but they still let me screw things up. I am better for it IMO.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Reeling this is not your fault. I have a 15 year old daughter I am responsible for her for a few years. Your daughter is 30 at least age wise. You can suggest ic and that but you can't make her. Is sil thinking about his decision or is his mind made up. Either way get him on here to tell his story.


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## JMGrey (Dec 19, 2012)

Reeling said:


> And yet, and yet...as JMGrey and JCD point out in different ways, md's behaviour is unlikely to be explained by mental illness alone. Md chose to act on her baser impulses. Brain chemistry might well be a contributing factor, but md's paid to interpret the law, and to ensure her clients stay within it. In fact during this period her career has flourished. I know this is muddled reasoning, but while I'm going to insist md seeks psychiatric evaluation, and support her through the process, I'm afraid that something far more serious and intractable is wrong with her basic moral framework. 30 years ago her biological father told me he valued expediency over truth. He's certainly proved his point since. He has also treated md with a staggering disregard for her feelings and needs, but I hoped surrounding her with love, stability and opportunity would have an insulating effect. Md's recent actions and if I'm honest, past behaviour fill me with fear that she has never developed a capacity for kindness, self discipline or critical self evaluation, regardless of how hard I've tried. Now she's an adult my influence is much reduced, but my sense of responsibility and connectedness are the same. Any thoughts?


I do applaud that you're really trying to understand your daughter's behavior rather than explain it away through mental illness or atypical personality. And I definitely think that her father's attitude informed her personality to a degree. I noticed that you qualified him with "biological". You might've already answered this but what is the situation there?

I can only speak from personal experience but I've had others assert that I have symptoms of Asperger's (I have varyingly scored a 29 and 33 on different version of the ASQ test). Some of it was because of precocity and academic achievement, but mostly it involves a complete lack of social filter, which most people wrongly attribute to an inability to recognize social cues, when nothing could be further from the truth. My frankness, or rudeness some would call it, stems from a disdain for the practice of situational duplicity that I feel is both insulting and unnecessary. The problems of this world are caused, in large part, because few are willing to be brutally honest, with themselves or others. The whole point of this is that while your daughter might possess traits which fit within the autism spectrum, you should certainly be aware that they can be totally voluntary, rather than compulsive.


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## MrWombat (Feb 16, 2012)

Reeling said:


> I'm appalled and even repulsed as details of her cruel, callous and manipulative behaviour emerges. I feel as though I never knew her, and I bleed for her young husband. Any thoughts?


Bros before hos. Sorry, man. If it's any consolation, she ain't no worse than all the rest.


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> Oh, the brutal: "You are f***king fat!" direct approach. Oh, yes, I know all about that...
> 
> *There were reasons why I handled my wife's announcement in the way I did, but they aren't relevant to this thread*.


How we all chose to handle our own short end of the stick.Is no one else´s business then our self´s..No reason for you to explain for any one, your reason´s. What matter´s it worked for you.And that you are happy with the outcome

Did not mean any disrespect. I hope you understand that


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## Reeling (Feb 25, 2013)

Jnjexpress, texted link this am. Thanks.


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## Reeling (Feb 25, 2013)

Tom67 md must get IC as a condition of my ongoing support. She knows this and has agreed. JMGrey md's biological father has effectively been out of md's life since she was two. I met her real father when she was three and together we have worked hard to give md the physical and emotional security her bio dad is incapable of. He is a high income professional but paid a pittance in child support, refused to help with school fees, and allowed his social climbing wife to effectively cut md out of his life. That said, she is infinitely better off without him, and I emphatically believe md's actions are in no way mitigated by a lousy bio dad.


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## Reeling (Feb 25, 2013)

Oh, Tom67 sil is going to friends interstate for a few days to think and cuddle their young baby. Knows about this forum. Thanks.


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## JMGrey (Dec 19, 2012)

Reeling said:


> Tom67 md must get IC as a condition of my ongoing support. She knows this and has agreed. JMGrey md's biological father has effectively been out of md's life since she was two. I met her real father when she was three and together we have worked hard to give md the physical and emotional security her bio dad is incapable of. He is a high income professional but paid a pittance in child support, refused to help with school fees, and allowed his social climbing wife to effectively cut md out of his life. That said, she is infinitely better off without him, and I emphatically believe md's actions are in no way mitigated by a lousy bio dad.


How old was she when she discovered that her stepfather was not her biological father? And would you characterize her as a daddy's girl? Did she react poorly to learning about her biological father?


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## Reeling (Feb 25, 2013)

JMGrey said:


> How old was she when she discovered that her stepfather was not her biological father? And would you characterize her as a daddy's girl? Did she react poorly to learning about her biological father?


Md was always in contact with her bio dad (bd), but he cancelled time together, and converted access weekends into a quick visit to our house so often, she hardly reacted at six when told he was moving thousands of miles away and remarrying. Md spent 2x2 wks a year with her wonderful paternal grandmother, who lives near bd who would visit md once or twice a holiday, but she was never allowed to stay overnight with him. Md was never a daddy's or a mummy's girl.


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## JMGrey (Dec 19, 2012)

Reeling said:


> Md was always in contact with her bio dad (bd), but he cancelled time together, and converted access weekends into a quick visit to our house so often, she hardly reacted at six when told he was moving thousands of miles away and remarrying. Md spent 2x2 wks a year with her wonderful paternal grandmother, who lives near bd who would visit md once or twice a holiday, but she was never allowed to stay overnight with him. Md was never a daddy's or a mummy's girl.


Was she precocious and independent? Did you give her a lot of latitude growing up, treat her in an adult fashion fairly early in life? Is she, and has she always been, emotionally distant? Is she facile, yet superficial in terms of emotional intimacy? Would you classify her attachment to others as being situational or compensatory, that is that her association or toleration of a given person is directly proportion to their contribution or effect on her personal goals? Sorry for the rapid-fire questions, but I'm trying to get a feel for your daughter's self-image.


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## Reeling (Feb 25, 2013)

JMGrey said:


> Was she precocious and independent? Yes
> Did you give her a lot of latitude growing up, treat her in an adult fashion fairly early in life?
> No, but tried to make her more independant, md often resisted this.
> Is she, and has she always been, emotionally distant?
> ...


Thanks for your interest.


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## curlysue321 (Jul 30, 2012)

Write your daughter a letter. Tell her that you will always love her, but how much she has disappointed you.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

jnj express said:


> Hey Reeling---Please, Please, Please---tell/get/convince, the innocent betrayed newlywed H., to come here---he needs a support group, like no other---he needs to be able to talk, and get help---and there is no better place than this forum for that, also he needs to be directed to a good knowledgable IC-----his world has been cut away from him, and all his beliefs, about what is good in this world---are down the drain---he needs to vent, and discuss, and that is what we are here for----GET HIM TO COME HERE


Yes. Please invite him here, Reeling. He will be amongst friends and fellow survivors of infidelity.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

JMGrey said:


> I do applaud that you're really trying to understand your daughter's behavior rather than explain it away through mental illness or atypical personality. And I definitely think that her father's attitude informed her personality to a degree. I noticed that you qualified him with "biological". You might've already answered this but what is the situation there?
> 
> I can only speak from personal experience but I've had others assert that I have symptoms of Asperger's (I have varyingly scored a 29 and 33 on different version of the ASQ test). Some of it was because of precocity and academic achievement, but mostly it involves a complete lack of social filter, which most people wrongly attribute to an inability to recognize social cues, when nothing could be further from the truth. My frankness, or rudeness some would call it, stems from a disdain for the practice of situational duplicity that I feel is both insulting and unnecessary. The problems of this world are caused, in large part, because few are willing to be brutally honest, with themselves or others. The whole point of this is that while your daughter might possess traits which fit within the autism spectrum, you should certainly be aware that they can be totally voluntary, rather than compulsive.


Your explanation of your honesty. It made me smile because I had pretty much the same explanation from my wife!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SweetAndSour (Feb 25, 2012)

Reeling,

I just had a quick read. If somebody hasn't already said it, I'll say it.

Consider your daughter suffers from Narcissistic Personality Disorder, a flavor of it, I hope I am wrong.

It is hereditary. Looking at your daughter's bio fathers actions, she probably has it in her genes (Nature). Coupled with her bio dad's ignorance towards her (Nurture), she has all the background layed out for her according to books, poor girl.

Google about narcissistic abuse and you will see what her bio father done to you and her. It is a life long battle when you have a baby with them. Here comes the next round with his daughter.


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## Vanguard (Jul 27, 2011)

Why do we have to create disorders to blame things on? Can't people just be awful?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

WhiteMousse said:


> Why do we have to create disorders to blame things on? Can't people just be awful?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, personality disorders are just classifications. They aren't an excuse neither a "get out of jail free" card.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Well, personality disorders are just classifications. They aren't an excuse neither a "get out of jail free" card.


Unfortunately a lot of the time (not saying that's the case with this situation) they're used as one.


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## SweetAndSour (Feb 25, 2012)

WhiteMousse said:


> Why do we have to create disorders to blame things on? Can't people just be awful?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Their awfulness are pretty well defined, analyzed and documented already, most of the time. They are are not so unique. 

We cannot just say "ohh she/he is just awful" and walk away, sometimes it is too late. If they are our family, we need the info.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

SweetAndSour said:


> Their awfulness are pretty well defined, analyzed and documented already, most of the time. They are are not so unique.
> 
> We cannot just say "ohh she/he is just awful" and walk away, sometimes it is too late. If they are our family, we need the info.


:iagree:


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Reeling said:


> Oh, Tom67 sil is going to friends interstate for a few days to think and cuddle their young baby. Knows about this forum. Thanks.


Whose young baby? The friends? Please tell me it is the friend's baby...


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## JMGrey (Dec 19, 2012)

WhiteMousse said:


> Why do we have to create disorders to blame things on? Can't people just be awful?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agreed. Does she exhibit behavior that is consistent with the clinical diagnosis of narcissism? Sure. But she doesn't, at least that we've heard, exaggerate her achievements nor set unreasonable goals or have difficulty achieving those goals she does set. She is, by her mother's description successful. My point is that most of us, at one time or another, display symptoms of some kind of personality disorder. Nonetheless, we should resist, as much as we are able, from seeking to rationalize bad behavior with atypical personalities.


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## SweetAndSour (Feb 25, 2012)

JMGrey said:


> Agreed. Does she exhibit behavior that is consistent with the clinical diagnosis of narcissism? Sure. But she doesn't, at least that we've heard, *exaggerate her achievements nor set unreasonable goals* or have difficulty achieving those goals she does set. She is, by her mother's description successful. My point is that most of us, at one time or another, display symptoms of some kind of personality disorder. Nonetheless, we should resist, as much as we are able, from seeking to rationalize bad behavior with atypical personalities.


Baseless grandiosity is most known quality of Overt narcissists but it is not always there or visible. Covert narcissists are just the opposite. They are the most humble ,giving and caring people at first. 

Most distructive, i.e. pathological quality they have is their unrealistic sense of entitelement and their lack of empathy for others. These two lets them easily cheat and lie without remorse.

I am not trying to rationalizing the bad behavior, it is what it is. It is worst than occasional bad behavior. It is who they are.


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## SweetAndSour (Feb 25, 2012)

This is a thirty years old, succesfull woman, with options, who is experienced, supposedly knows the good and bad, just married to a good man by her mom's account. It is a good age to settle down, start a family. She should be married just because she loves and wants to be with him. 

Then why ?....(maybe) that's why.

Reeling, If she talks, ask her about her previous relationships, is there similar stories ? Did she have any long term and satisfactory relationship with someone before ?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

This might seem a strange question at this point, but is there any chance of them reconciling and -somehow- getting over this?

Do either of them want to reconcile?


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> This might seem a strange question at this point, but is there any chance of them reconciling and -somehow- getting over this?
> 
> Do either of them want to reconcile?


Reconcile for a marriage that didn't even exist?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

keko said:


> Reconcile for a marriage that didn't even exist?


_Sigh!_ I know, I know! It's just that I am a romantic at heart. Cynicism has been foisted upon me by my experiences and my job, but I am still a romantic...


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

JustPuzzled said:


> Maybe this is the wrong time to interject, but can people please get the difference between "your" and "you're"?
> 
> I am not singling you out, The Guy, it's all over the place.
> 
> Alte Dame, where are you?!


Watch out the Grammar Gestapo is here.

One they are done interrogating you they well then hand you over to the Spelling NAZI's.

God, once they have caught you, mercy on your soul.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> _Sigh!_ I know, I know! It's just that I am a romantic at heart. Cynicism has been foisted upon me by my experiences and my job, but I am still a romantic...


The problem I see is that the wife isn't remorseful. She's also a big career woman.

A woman earning more than her husband increases her chances of infidelity many times.

She knows what she wants, she's had to fight to get it...and now what she wants isn't him.

Let this guy walk off into the sunset, bruised and battered, improve his career, and find someone who MIGHT be interested in him. I'm sure some young girl in Australia will be.

Meanwhile...well...sorry to say, but her prospects don't look too bright. Either she finds some guy who earns more than her (and they are in short supply unmarried) OR she finds another man she eclipses...with the attendent potential problems.

She is 5 years from facing a 1 in 4 chance of miscarriage with every pregnancy. A job is nice to pay for holidays to Brisbane or Bangkok, but it isn't so good for keeping you warm at night.

Reeling, I'm sorry this happened. It's seldom we get a bystander to an adultery here. How do you punish a 30 year old? Doesn't happen except by cutting them off...which means you have LESS influence, not more. It's a hard situation.

What is your daughter doing about alimony? She wanted to be alpha woman. Is she going to pay him alimony or half of her retirement? Would she demand the same if the circumstances were reversed?

But...thinking of Aussie culture...just help him move and let him go. I wouldn't push R on him. It doesn't sound like your daughter will do any of the necessary steps to do so.

I guess she's losing the husband and keeping the job.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

theroad said:


> Watch out*,* the Grammar Gestapo is here*.*
> 
> When they are done interrogating you*,* than they w*i*ll hand you over to the Spelling Nazis.
> 
> Once they have caught you, may God have mercy on your soul!


Here, I fixed that for you.


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## Reeling (Feb 25, 2013)

*MattMatt* my sil has had the link to this forum for a couple of days. 
The baby belongs to a school friend of his. Sil is great with kids and it's typical of him to seek solace in such a gentle, nondestructive way. 
At present md wants sil back. On Sunday night he did agree to go back and then trickle truth turned to an avalanche. He rang me at 2am, hollowed out with pain, and we went round there. He needs some time to think this through, again typical. I have told his mother though, that while just the thought of not having him in my family makes me cry, if he were my son I'd tell him to leave.

*SweetAndSour* my father, who was an exrtremely flawed person, was diagnosed with NPD. As soon as I read your description I felt sick with recognition. In my darker moments (and md's given me a few), I've said to my husband it's as though my sole worth to md was what I could do for or give to her. Later I always lock this thought away in the Rotten Mother file. Since she was a newborn I've always felt that I wasn't doing enough for her, that if I could just get the formula right she would be happy and later, kinder and less avaricious. 
Sil has told me in recent days of the relationship/s which preceded their's, and how md assured him it would be different with him. Md presented a very different, elaborate and deliberately misleading version of events to us, and we're still processing the cold deceit md used to manipulate us all.


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## Reeling (Feb 25, 2013)

JCD said:


> The problem I see is that the wife isn't remorseful. She's also a big career woman.
> 
> A woman earning more than her husband increases her chances of infidelity many times.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your understanding and kindness.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Reeling said:


> *MattMatt* my sil has had the link to this forum for a couple of days.
> The baby belongs to a school friend of his. Sil is great with kids and it's typical of him to seek solace in such a gentle, nondestructive way.
> At present md wants sil back. On Sunday night he did agree to go back and then trickle truth turned to an avalanche. He rang me at 2am, hollowed out with pain, and we went round there. He needs some time to think this through, again typical. I have told his mother though, that while just the thought of not having him in my family makes me cry, if he were my son I'd tell him to leave.
> 
> ...


She can't understand what she has done to him, perhaps? The pain she has caused him? 

My wife announced to me that she was going to have an affair, but that it would be alright, as she was going to come back to me. And, yes, she did come back to me. It's now 16 years later. Somewhere, inside of me though, there's still that raw lump of crushing pain that I keep hidden.

I now realise it was almost certainly my wife's High Functioning Asperger's Syndrome that meant she thought what she did was OK...


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## Reeling (Feb 25, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> She can't understand what she has done to him, perhaps? The pain she has caused him?
> *I think you're right, but in some ways that makes the situation beyond retrieval and even more hurtful for my sil*
> 
> Somewhere, inside of me though, there's still that raw lump of crushing pain that I keep hidden.
> ...


*I understand what you're saying, and I'm both awed and heartened by your resilience, but how did this knowledge help you move past the hurt?*


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Reeling said:


> *I understand what you're saying, and I'm both awed and heartened by your resilience, but how did this knowledge help you move past the hurt?*


I determined that as it was the same condition that makes her jump in fear at even the slightest noise, or jump if I touch her, or that means she can lose her way if something outside is even slightly different, that it was not her fault. Couple that with the fact that she has been the love of my life since 1984 and what else could I do?:scratchhead:

It hasn't been easy, but it has been worthwhile, on the whole.


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## Reeling (Feb 25, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> I determined that as it was the same condition that makes her jump in fear at even the slightest noise, or jump if I touch her, or that means she can lose her way if something outside is even slightly different, that it was not her fault. Couple that with the fact that she has been the love of my life since 1984 and what else could I do?:scratchhead:
> 
> It hasn't been easy, but it has been worthwhile, on the whole.


*That's the most beautiful and consoling thing I could read right now.*


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Reeling said:


> *MattMatt*
> The baby belongs to a school friend of his. Sil is great with kids and it's typical of him to seek solace in such a gentle, nondestructive way. (1)
> 
> I have told his mother though, that while just the thought of not having him in my family makes me cry, if he were my son I'd tell him to leave. (2)


1. Get him some alpha in other areas of the game and I predict A LINE to be his next girlfriend. (No offense)

2. Nothing says he cant be part of YOUR life. Just not hers.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Reeling said:


> *That's the most beautiful and consoling thing I could read right now.*


Thank you. 

I coped at first by self-medicating with alcohol and I drifted into a stupid revenge affair, but as I was about to consummate this stupid affair, I saw an image of my wife, smiling, and I suddenly came out of the fog and realised what I was risking and did not have sex with the OW. I confessed all to my wife and we reconciled.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Wow Reeling,

As a father of 3 daughters I cannot fathom your pain, your SIL's anguish and the turmoil going in both of your families.

Your daughter has done a lot of damage. Alot!

It is good that you are keeping cool and mandating that she get therapy.

Where is the OM in all this mess? Still working with your Daughter?

I am saying prayers for your entire family. It is good you are suppporting your SIL. And it is even better that you "Mom's" are communicating and hopefully will work together to giude both your SIL and Daughter through these trying times.

Peace

HM64


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

What has your daughter said about her job vs her marriage? I can't see her keeping both.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Why does you WD (wandering daughter) want to keep you SIL around? I'm honestly surprised at that. She had him, she chose the OM clearly, and she still works daily with the OM.

Why does she say she wants the SiL to stick with her? Is it because him leaving confirms its her fault and she did a very bad thing? Or is it that she doesn't like loosing things.

If she works with aggressive lawyers ho make a bunch of money, and your SiL is a gentle nice guy who is good with kids,there isn't much hope. Obviously you WD was attracted to the successful guy and lost respect for the gentle nice SiL.

Suggestion:

Have her write a list of 100 reasons why she wants him to stay.

And have her also write for him a list of reasons why he should refuse.

It might teach her about herself.

Is she still dating the OM?

Is she still working with him?


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## Reeling (Feb 25, 2013)

weightlifter said:


> 1. Get him some alpha in other areas of the game and I predict A LINE to be his next girlfriend. (No offense)
> *What's alpha?*
> 2. Nothing says he cant be part of YOUR life. Just not hers.


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## Reeling (Feb 25, 2013)

happyman64 said:


> Where is the OM in all this mess? Still working with your Daughter?
> *HM thank you for your kind words. OM could be anywhere! Last Saturday md envisaged a life together with him. Last Sunday he was dumped and sil asked to come home. To my knowledge nothing had changed between Saturday and Sunday but md's feelings.*
> I am saying prayers for your entire family. It is good you are suppporting your SIL. And it is even better that you "Mom's" are communicating and hopefully will work together to giude both your SIL and Daughter through these trying times.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much HM.


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## Reeling (Feb 25, 2013)

Shaggy said:


> Why does she say she wants the SiL to stick with her? Is it because him leaving confirms its her fault and she did a very bad thing? Or is it that she doesn't like loosing things.
> *Absolutely no idea.*
> If she works with aggressive lawyers ho make a bunch of money, and your SiL is a gentle nice guy who is good with kids,there isn't much hope. Obviously you WD was attracted to the successful guy and lost respect for the gentle nice SiL.
> *take your point, but sil successful in a far more competitve but poorly paid field*
> ...


*Yes. For now. Gave her my own version of the NC letter I later read about here*


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

> HM thank you for your kind words. OM could be anywhere! Last Saturday md envisaged a life together with him. Last Sunday he was dumped and* sil asked to come home*. To my knowledge nothing had changed between Saturday and Sunday but md's feelings.


Um...red flag.

*SIL* ASKED to come back. How do you know OM's dumped? He still WORKS with her, does he not? Has he quit? Was he married?

What proof is there that md's feelings changed? SHE did not ask SIL to come back...he did.

She has a very stark choice to make. Can you honestly ask the SIL to make a go of it when md gets to go to her work with HIM...and the copy room, the supply closet...those private offices and those long lunches near the hotels...?

I'm glad he's reflective. Hopefully he sees for himself how incredibly horrible and unfair that would be for him.


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## Reeling (Feb 25, 2013)

JCD said:


> What has your daughter said about her job vs her marriage? I can't see her keeping both.


*JCD I've made it very clear she needs to avoid OM while still working in same building, and start looking for another job. Yesterday told her the job means nothing and her marriage means everything, and she needs to get her priorities straight.*


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Reeling said:


> *JCD I've made it very clear she needs to avoid OM while still working in same building, and start looking for another job. Yesterday told her the job means nothing and her marriage means everything, and she needs to get her priorities straight.*


When she changes jobs, than SIL should come home. Anything else is unfair to him.

I'm glad you laid that out, but right now, she's very disconnected and vulnerable. Her memories of OM are all grand. They had sex, flirted, dated. Everyone is on their best behavior when they are dating.

All her recent memories of SIL are filled with pain and guilt. 

So...this will be difficult.

Is he married?


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## Reeling (Feb 25, 2013)

JCD said:


> What proof is there that md's feelings changed? SHE did not ask SIL to come back...he did.
> *Sorry JCD, my grammar's a bit sloppy right now. Md dumped OM then she asked sil to come home. Not knowing the truth, sil went back but left within hours as more of thr truth trickled out.*


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Reeling said:


> JCD said:
> 
> 
> > What proof is there that md's feelings changed? SHE did not ask SIL to come back...he did.
> ...


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## Reeling (Feb 25, 2013)

Not married JCD but broke up a long term relationship shotly after md's wedding. He's an unstable jerk and as my husband says "man shakes another man's hand then sleeps with his new wife? I don't need to know anything else about him."


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

For there to be any chance of this marriage to survive, your daughter needs to quit working at this place and never ever be around this OM again. Otherwise, your SIL will never be able to reconcile with her. Is she actually feeling remorse, or is it merely shame from mom and dad?


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Your daughter and SIL are very fortunate that you're so proactive about this. I hope they appreciate it.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> For there to be any chance of this marriage to survive, your daughter needs to quit working at this place and never ever be around this OM again. Otherwise, your SIL will never be able to reconcile with her. *Is she actually feeling remorse, or is it merely shame from mom and dad*?


This is my concern as well. Mom's been putting some pressure on her and right now, while emotions are high, she is doing things that later in the cold light of morning she might regret.

I'd hate for her to regret Ring with her husband because of mum and dad and giving up a promising career. 

So it's difficult. MD should think very hard about what she wants to make the right choice without mom and dad pressure...but if she waits very long at all, he'll be a dust cloud on the horizon.

Unfair, but there you are.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

What does you SIL say about all this? Is he considering reconciliation? Maybe you should point him here.


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## NewM (Apr 11, 2012)

Reeling said:


> Has decided she doesn't want kids, I support this


What is his stance on this,he seems like he likes and wants kids.I think if he wants kids but she doesn't + her cheating is good indicator that they shouldn't be together.


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## Reeling (Feb 25, 2013)

Jasel said:


> Your daughter and SIL are very fortunate that you're so proactive about this. I hope they appreciate it.


 *Thank you.*



Plan 9 from OS said:


> For there to be any chance of this marriage to survive, your daughter needs to quit working at this place and never ever be around this OM again. Otherwise, your SIL will never be able to reconcile with her.
> *Agree, have strongly advised her to find another job as a sign of good faith while sil makes up his mind.*
> Is she actually feeling remorse, or is it merely shame from mom and dad?


*I think md is terrified of losing sil now. While she really hates my disapproval I've never been able to make md do anything she doesn't want to. Certainly not pushing her to R*




JCD said:


> This is my concern as well. Mom's been putting some pressure on her and right now, while emotions are high, she is doing things that later in the cold light of morning she might regret.
> *Sounds harsh, but a few regrets could be instructive.*
> 
> I'd hate for her to regret Ring with her husband because of mum and dad and giving up a promising career. *Career not at risk, plenty of opportunity for someone with md's CV.*
> ...


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Please excuse me, Reeling. I was imprecise.

What I meant that if MD was seriously not in love with her husband and the affair was a sign, not the cause of this alienation, and because of pressure, guilt, remorse etc she dropped a job she loved for a man she didn't, she might wake up one day in the same place but with regrets for losing her job.

Which is why I advise that she thinks VERY hard about this. And this really isn't about sparing her anything...that is a bonus.

Instead I don't think that SIL needs a false or half hearted reconciliation which will just damage him later.

Not that your daughter isn't worth consideration (every cheater has a mother somewhere), but it's better to fix things right rather than just slap some Spackle over a gaping hole in the marriage and call everything fixed.


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## SweetAndSour (Feb 25, 2012)

Reeling,

I`ll share the similarities in our stories with you.

My wife had sex with another man just a few months before we got married. I learned that 20 years later, a year ago.

My wife is a well educated carrier woman. 

Now she says she never wanted to have children, after two beautiful kids, that news to me.

My relationship with my in laws is great, better than their relationship with their own blood and flesh daughter. We are separating but my MIL considers me as her son. We will be like that forever. They are family to me no matter what. But my wife will dispose them soon, she never liked them but they don`t know it, want to see it.

I may be your son in law, who is married to your daughter, talking back to you 20 years later.

We are separating after 22 years. We are all miserable now, including our two young kids. After her infidelity just before marriage which you are similarly referring to, she turned to a serial cheater during our marriage. Let me rephrase that, she has always been a cheater, user, manipulator even before me, and hiding it from me for 22 years, that I am just learning/seeing.

Marrying to me, the things I provided , the education, the carrier, kids, my life, my love, most importantly her love (yes she loved me crazy) didn`t change her. 

I hope your case is different but their marriage is born dead anyways, let it go.... Your son in law will be hurt but better as soon as he distance himself from your daughter.

Make it a lesson and a start seeing your daughter in a different light. You are up to a though, long battle ahead. 

You are her biggest asset to healing. BUT educate yourself and don`t let her to use and manipulate you, she needs you be real and strong. Get some professional help for you two.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

I hate to keep harping on this and I know my position may run contrary of others but I'm, sticking with, "when a girl loves and cares about you, she doesn’t run around with other men". 
This other guy isn’t the problem. The problem is that "MD" has lost interest in her husband. I'd lay odds the reason the SIL is back is because she has caved to the pressure...not a long term solution.


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## Reeling (Feb 25, 2013)

JCD said:


> Please excuse me, Reeling. I was imprecise.
> 
> What I meant that if MD was seriously not in love with her husband and the affair was a sign, not the cause of this alienation, and because of pressure, guilt, remorse etc she dropped a job she loved for a man she didn't, she might wake up one day in the same place but with regrets for losing her job.
> 
> ...


*JCD you could be listening in on conversations between my husband and I! I agree with every single word.*


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## Reeling (Feb 25, 2013)

SweetAndSour said:


> We are separating after 22 years. We are all miserable now, including our two young kids. After her infidelity just before marriage which you are similarly referring to, she turned to a serial cheater during our marriage. Let me rephrase that, she has always been a cheater, user, manipulator even before me, and hiding it from me for 22 years, that I am just learning/seeing.
> 
> Marrying to me, the things I provided , the education, the carrier, kids, my life, my love, most importantly her love (yes she loved me crazy) didn`t change her.


*SweetAndSour your words both chill me and sadden me. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for caring about my sil, don't know if I'd have that much goodness left if I were in your shoes. Like you, we're all learning a new and painful version of someone we loved unconditionally and invested in heavily emotionally and yes, financially. You seem concerned that I'm trying to press md and sil into R. Nothing could be further from the truth, but R is in any case not my decision. I'll be working hard in the best interests of these two people I love dearly, whatever happens to their marriage. All the very best to you and your youngsters.*


tacoma said:


> .
> Trust isn't something that can be given, it has to be earned and it will take years if a rough marriage for your SIL to be able to trust her again IF it's even possible.
> You seriously don't want your grandkids starting life inside that type of family dynamic
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


*Following on from above, I'm hyper-aware of the perilous time ahead, and hadn't even got around to considering the implications for family life when I read Tacoma's post. What if sil moves on? There'll probably be another after him, and are any future grandchildren doomed to this family life? I shudder to think of it.*


ThePheonix said:


> I hate to keep harping on this and I know my position may run contrary of others but I'm, sticking with, "when a girl loves and cares about you, she doesn’t run around with other men".
> *Agree TP, problem for me, because md's mine for life, is whether she is capable of developing a capacity for love and caring.*
> This other guy isn’t the problem. The problem is that "MD" has lost interest in her husband. I'd lay odds the reason the SIL is back is because she has caved to the pressure...not a long term solution.


*No pressure to R from us, lots of pressure to do whatever it takes to never ever inflict this suffering on another human being, and that whatever happens md can never again deal with her feelings in this way. Sil back only for a few hours, trickle truth sent him reeling out the door, and is now thinking about his next move.*


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## spudster (Jan 11, 2012)

Reeling said:


> *SweetAndSour your words both chill me and sadden me. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for caring about my sil, don't know if I'd have that much goodness left if I were in your shoes. Like you, we're all learning a new and painful version of someone we loved unconditionally and invested in heavily emotionally and yes, financially. You seem concerned that I'm trying to press md and sil into R. Nothing could be further from the truth, but R is in any case not my decision. I'll be working hard in the best interests of these two people I love dearly, whatever happens to their marriage. All the very best to you and your youngsters.*
> 
> *Following on from above, I'm hyper-aware of the perilous time ahead, and hadn't even got around to considering the implications for family life when I read Tacoma's post. What if sil moves on? There'll probably be another after him, and are any future grandchildren doomed to this family life? I shudder to think of it.*
> 
> *No pressure to R from us, lots of pressure to do whatever it takes to never ever inflict this suffering on another human being, and that whatever happens md can never again deal with her feelings in this way. Sil back only for a few hours, trickle truth sent him reeling out the door, and is now thinking about his next move.*


With all due respect to you Reeling, your husband AND your daughter, after reading this thread I would seriously consider telling you daughter that it would be in her best interest to NEVER marry again. 

Some people, some of them very good people, just cannot handle married life. It is not in their psychological and emotional makeup to be married. I think your daughter falls in this category. 

It is my opinion that your daughter is a career woman through and through. Her career comes first before everything else including love and committment. That doesn't make her evil...it just is what it is. 

She has no business being married or ever getting married.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

spudster said:


> With all due respect to you Reeling, your husband AND your daughter, after reading this thread I would seriously consider telling you daughter that it would be in her best interest to NEVER marry again.
> 
> Some people, some of them very good people, just cannot handle married life. It is not in their psychological and emotional makeup to be married. I think your daughter falls in this category.
> 
> ...



Not sure I agree about the career thing, I do agree with the marriage part however. Especially if she has no intention of having kids. Being married doesn't mean you can't have relationships but what she's done is a pretty big indicator that she probably isn't very marriage, and possibly even monogomously, minded.

The frustrating thing about these situations is you have no idea how long the WS has been like this. Going by what Reeling has told us, her daughter didn't seem all that remorseful or guilty about what she had done. Which makes me believe it's quite possible she has a habit of cheating or is pretty used/comfortable with doing it.


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## SweetAndSour (Feb 25, 2012)

Reeling said:


> * Thank you from the bottom of my heart for caring about my sil *


I am not worried about him, I wish I was as lucky as him.

You, your husband and your daughter are in a much harder place than your SIL. Still, you can worry about him too. You are a good human being, with a big heart Reeling, I salute you.

You have much more to deal with in your hands than just this Infidelity episode, I am afraid.

And thanks for your kind words too.


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## SweetAndSour (Feb 25, 2012)

Reeling said:


> * You seem concerned that I'm trying to press md and sil into R. Nothing could be further from the truth, but R is in any case not my decision.*


Their chance in R is very slim. It doesn`t worth the effort in my opinion.

But, on a second thought, they should try R, just for the value of the learning experience. Soul searching under extreme conditions is very beneficial.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

SweetAndSour said:


> Their chance in R is very slim. It doesn`t worth the effort in my opinion.
> 
> *But, on a second thought, they should try R, just for the value of the learning experience.* Soul searching under extreme conditions is very beneficial.


I gotta disagree with that. That's just opening himself up to further pain, heartbreak, and wasting his time on top of that. Which to me isn't worth it just for the sake of learning a lesson. Finding out his wife cheated on him and currently dealing with the fallout from that to me is a more than enough of an extreme condition to learn and grow from as unfortunate a lesson as it is. No need for them to rub salt in his wounds just to get some experience of R out of it.


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## btdt (Nov 19, 2012)

If your daughter does end up divorcing, you should let her know that before she ever gets married again, that you are going to have a very frank discussion with her new boy friend about how she managed to implode her first marriage in only six months. She better have that discussion with him beforehand in a very truthful manner, because you will not give him a sanitized version of the story.


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## SweetAndSour (Feb 25, 2012)

Jasel said:


> I gotta disagree with that. That's just opening himself up to further pain, heartbreak, and wasting his time on top of that. Which to me isn't worth it just for the sake of learning a lesson. Finding out his wife cheated on him and currently dealing with the fallout from that to me is a more than enough of an extreme condition to learn and grow from as unfortunate a lesson as it is. No need for them to rub salt in his wounds just to get some experience of R out of it.


No, it is just for a better closure. He`s got tons of questions in his head. Instead of asking those questions to his imaginary angelic bride in his head, again and again, for years, it is better for him that some of those questions are to be answered by the real woman.

And for the real woman it is going to be a lesson in empathy.

For my age they are still young and apparently, they need some lessons so that they don't end up like this again, together or with others.

I don't think they can really R and they shouldn't.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

I see what you're saying. But to me asking questions and getting answers for closure and reconciling are two very different things.


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## SweetAndSour (Feb 25, 2012)

Jasel said:


> I see what you're saying. But to me asking questions and getting answers for closure and reconciling are two very different things.


Yes, two very different results but getting there without looking back follows the same path.

We are divorcing with my wife. We tried to reconcile first. During the process we learned a lot about each other, ourselves gained tons of insight. 

I still ask why but my whys are much smaller now, makes it easier to accept and move on.


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## Reeling (Feb 25, 2013)

spudster said:


> after reading this thread I would seriously consider telling you daughter that it would be in her best interest to NEVER marry again._Posted via Mobile Device_


*Really hoping this isn't the case, and that with intensive IC md will grow as horrified as the rest of us by her actions. If md can't achieve this, I wholeheartedly agree with you*


SweetAndSour said:


> You, your husband and your daughter are in a much harder place than your SIL. Still, you can worry about him too.
> You have much more to deal with in your hands than just this Infidelity episode, I am afraid.


*Don't think it's harder bc sil is living my worst fear, but agree that while he can walk away, albeit cruelly scarred, parenthood is for life, and personality defects possibly too.*


Jasel said:


> I gotta disagree with that. That's just opening himself up to further pain, heartbreak, and wasting his time on top of that. Which to me isn't worth it just for the sake of learning a lesson. Finding out his wife cheated on him and currently dealing with the fallout from that to me is a more than enough of an extreme condition to learn and grow from as unfortunate a lesson as it is. No need for them to rub salt in his wounds just to get some experience of R out of it.


*Agree with this.*


btdt said:


> If your daughter does end up divorcing, you should let her know that before she ever gets married again, that you are going to have a very frank discussion with her new boy friend about how she managed to implode her first marriage in only six months. She better have that discussion with him beforehand in a very truthful manner, because you will not give him a sanitized version of the story.


*Thank you, another very good idea.*


Jasel said:


> I see what you're saying. But to me asking questions and getting answers for closure and reconciling are two very different things.


*It's a point, have just been waiting for sil to decide, and that any discussion bw md and sil would be with a view to R. But that's a simplistic way of looking at it, and sil's entitled to ask as many questions as he likes for his own reasons without md (or anyone else) seeing it as part of R. Thank you!*


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Any update on what is happening, Reeling?


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## sarajane231 (Mar 12, 2013)

I can't say I have read all of the posts here, but the behaviour of your daughter screams out narcissist. Narcissists are very charming, liked by most people, and know how to manipulate and say the right thing. However they lack the ability to see other people in a normal way, and they use those in their life as puppets for their own enjoyment.

My brother is a textbook narcissist of gargantuan proportions...and this tendency was made worse by the fact that he came into a position of power, which he used to emotionally abuse all those around him.

My parents did not intervene (as he painted himself the victim) when he cheated on his young wife in the most callous, brutal way imaginable, and without going into details he literally destroyed this woman, and the lives of many around him, including his young children who are now deeply scarred for life.

He will never stop being a narcissist, because regardless of talk or therapy, narcissists refuse to see any problem within themselves and thus cannot ever fix it. I have given love, time, patience and everything I have to helping him, but he will always be "fake" and I will never get the same back from the relationship as I put in.

Do an online test to see whether you think your daughter fits the profile (there are many free online) and if she does....seek help from a professional for YOURSELF.

These people are toxic. It's not your fault...but don't underestimate what these people are capable of in terms of self serving behaviour, lies, deceit and emotional abuse. It is often hard to believe as they come across so innocent.

I will always love my brother, but I am glad I found out what and who he is, because I now act accordingly to protect myself.


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## AlphaHalf (Aug 5, 2012)

Tell your SIL to separate and start fresh. I think your daughter will just play the game for appearances and take future affairs underground to get you out of her business. 

Your SIL deserves better then what your daughter is providing. Let him meet somebody who is interested in a serious relationship. Currently your daughter is not ready and may never be.


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## Reeling (Feb 25, 2013)

JCD said:


> Any update on what is happening, Reeling?


Hi JCD, thanks for thinking of us. Where to start? Sil has gone back, and I'm not talking to my daughter! To backtrack: following my last update md rang to ask if I'd heard from sil, as he hadn't contacted her for two days. During this call md became almost hysterical about her degree of anxiety and angry at her lack of control. A fair amount of self pity was expressed, along with accusations that I should be on her side(!), and conversely that it was none of my business. A doctor had prescribed Xanax (think that's the name, a sedative) before the wedding, and md expressed a wish to take the whole packet twice in our conversation. I immediately went to where she was staying and removed the pills. We talked some more about the whole sorry thing, and as I left md promised to let me know what was happenning. Sil returned from interstate the next day, and the following day md messaged that they were meeting to talk. Hearing nothing for a week, I texted my dissapointment and asked for a phone call. When md rang she said sil was moving back in, and apologised for updating friends instead of me, saying it was because I had initially reacted with anger while others were more neutral. If it's neutrality md wants, she chose the wrong mother, because I don't intend to put up with anyone who expects a dispassionate response to outrageously cruel and egotistical behaviour. I am very worried about the situation, but feel unable to add anything constructive to it.


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## JMGrey (Dec 19, 2012)

Reeling said:


> Hi JCD, thanks for thinking of us. Where to start? Sil has gone back, and I'm not talking to my daughter! To backtrack: following my last update md rang to ask if I'd heard from sil, as he hadn't contacted her for two days. During this call md became almost hysterical about her degree of anxiety and angry at her lack of control. A fair amount of self pity was expressed, along with accusations that I should be on her side(!), and conversely that it was none of my business. A doctor had prescribed Xanax (think that's the name, a sedative) before the wedding, and md expressed a wish to take the whole packet twice in our conversation. I immediately went to where she was staying and removed the pills. We talked some more about the whole sorry thing, and as I left md promised to let me know what was happenning. Sil returned from interstate the next day, and the following day md messaged that they were meeting to talk. Hearing nothing for a week, I texted my dissapointment and asked for a phone call. When md rang she said sil was moving back in, and apologised for updating friends instead of me, saying it was because I had initially reacted with anger while others were more neutral. If it's neutrality md wants, she chose the wrong mother, because I don't intend to put up with anyone who expects a dispassionate response to outrageously cruel and egotistical behaviour. I am very worried about the situation, but feel unable to add anything constructive to it.


Reeling,

Your poor son-in-law has been rug-swept by your daughter. From what you wrote, your daughter is still claiming victim status in this terrible situation, which means that she has not even attempted to own her behavior or recognize that she has a lot she needs to change about herself. Basically, I hope you're prepared because this *will* happen again to SIL. Unfortunately, your daughter will be able to act the emotional terrorist with any prospective children. It's a sad situation all around.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Reeling said:


> Hi JCD, thanks for thinking of us. Where to start? Sil has gone back, and I'm not talking to my daughter! To backtrack: following my last update md rang to ask if I'd heard from sil, as he hadn't contacted her for two days. During this call md became almost hysterical about her degree of anxiety and angry at her lack of control. A fair amount of self pity was expressed, along with accusations that I should be on her side(!), and conversely that it was none of my business. A doctor had prescribed Xanax (think that's the name, a sedative) before the wedding, and md expressed a wish to take the whole packet twice in our conversation. I immediately went to where she was staying and removed the pills. We talked some more about the whole sorry thing, and as I left md promised to let me know what was happenning. Sil returned from interstate the next day, and the following day md messaged that they were meeting to talk. Hearing nothing for a week, I texted my dissapointment and asked for a phone call. When md rang she said sil was moving back in, and apologised for updating friends instead of me, saying it was because I had initially reacted with anger while others were more neutral. If it's neutrality md wants, she chose the wrong mother, because I don't intend to put up with anyone who expects a dispassionate response to outrageously cruel and egotistical behaviour. I am very worried about the situation, but feel unable to add anything constructive to it.


They are adults and will make their own decisions.

I don't have good feelings from this either. Is she still going to IC? Is she still looking for another job?

If the answer is no to both, I feel much worse about the situation.

There is nothing you can do. SIL may be in for a world of pain. It's his choice.

Godspeed


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## Reeling (Feb 25, 2013)

JCD said:


> They are adults and will make their own decisions.
> 
> I don't have good feelings from this either. Is she still going to IC? Is she still looking for another job?
> 
> ...


Yes, has seen IC and recruiting firms. Sil has followed this thread, and implemented some suggestions, so if nothing else, now he's got an experienced and understanding community to fall back on.


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## Reeling (Feb 25, 2013)

JMGrey said:


> Reeling,
> 
> Your poor son-in-law has been rug-swept by your daughter. From what you wrote, your daughter is still claiming victim status in this terrible situation, which means that she has not even attempted to own her behavior or recognize that she has a lot she needs to change about herself. Basically, I hope you're prepared because this *will* happen again to SIL. Unfortunately, your daughter will be able to act the emotional terrorist with any prospective children. It's a sad situation all around.


Thanks JMGrey, equal parts sadness, anger and foreboding is a rotten way to feel but it's our reality right now.


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## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

Reeling said:


> Hi JCD, thanks for thinking of us. Where to start? Sil has gone back, and I'm not talking to my daughter! To backtrack: following my last update md rang to ask if I'd heard from sil, as he hadn't contacted her for two days. During this call md became almost hysterical about her degree of anxiety and angry at her lack of control. A fair amount of self pity was expressed, along with accusations that I should be on her side(!), and conversely that it was none of my business. A doctor had prescribed Xanax (think that's the name, a sedative) before the wedding, and md expressed a wish to take the whole packet twice in our conversation. I immediately went to where she was staying and removed the pills. We talked some more about the whole sorry thing, and as I left md promised to let me know what was happenning. Sil returned from interstate the next day, and the following day md messaged that they were meeting to talk. Hearing nothing for a week, I texted my dissapointment and asked for a phone call. When md rang she said sil was moving back in, and apologised for updating friends instead of me, saying it was because I had initially reacted with anger while others were more neutral. If it's neutrality md wants, she chose the wrong mother, because I don't intend to put up with anyone who expects a dispassionate response to outrageously cruel and egotistical behaviour. I am very worried about the situation, but feel unable to add anything constructive to it.


You did take her side. The side she should have been on. One day she will appreciate it. Those who were netrual are not friends.


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## carpenoctem (Jul 4, 2012)

Why didn't you direct your SIL to TAM, Reeling? Are you, deep inside, hoping that he would in SOME way find a sense of balance / learn to live with your daughter as his spouse, and that your daughter will eventually have an epiphany and get knocked conscious?

Unlikely, because her self-centricity / apathy are obviously of a psychological origin, and only a self-defeated cuckold can live his life as her husband – as things stand now (and as it seems likely in the foreseeable future).

Let him come here, and get exposed to some TAMotherapy. He will be able to decide for himself better, after coming face to face with the collective wisdom of a hundred seared souls.

*You will probably save a man’s sanity, and in all likelyhood, preemptively save their future children from growing up in a sub-sane environment, and some day coming here as BSs or WSs, blaming it all on FOO issues.*

Just a thought.
If this is a repetitive topic here, apologies.
Also, if I offended your sensibilities as a mother, forgive me.


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

I feel bad for Sil, flushing his life down the drain. I am sorry and mean no offense, but your daughter is far too self centered and egotistical for this not to repeat itself. Shes already only thinking about herself primarily. 

She will repeat this, and it will most likely be years down the line and her having a guilt child as a way to make amends, which makes for a particularly messy divorce instead of a clean annulment.

That man is screwed and he doesn't even know it. Please get him on here cause he has no clue what hes going up against and the mistakes hes making by not manning up and taking action immediately other than moving out which = not kicking her out.

Infidelity within the honey moon phase(or months before) of marriage is the biggest get the hell out of dodge black flag in the book. 

Honestly, he needs to annul and possibly date her again, but he definitely shouldn't be married to her right now.


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## Reeling (Feb 25, 2013)

*carpenoctem* sil has known about TAM since I started posting here. He reads the advice, but hasn't posted to date.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

She's still working with the posOM, to me that says it all. She's throwing around tears and likely sex to SIL, but she's done nothing go substance like actually quitting her job.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Okay...let's dial it back a notch.

Getting married is stressful, very much so for the man, but probably more for the girl.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I assume that second guessing oneself in something as important as a marriage is pretty common...and can lead to some stupidity. How many engagements have had the 'the engagement is off' call because of something said or done? Many.

For reasons we don't know, she screwed this guy at work.

Well...you can't take back screwing. Once you screw someone, you are in a very awkward place PARTICULARLY when it's someone you work with. What if he trashes her reputation? What if he gets ugly? What if he gets all office politicy on her? And maybe she really liked it! Saying no after saying yes is complicated, particularly for women.

Now, Mom said she 'developed feelings for' which is girl shorthand rationalization for being horny and need to justify her actions. It certainly can't be a tawdry rutting! No...it has to be special...otherwise she's just a...well, lets not go there. (the word is human. Flawed human)

I never buy into the 'this person is a monster' thing. At least not until it is seriously proven (the girl giving away her virginity to another man before a wedding pretty much earned that title). People dig holes and they are not sure how to get out.

It is important to guard the life, emotions and sanity of the SIL. It is also sort of important to give the other person a hand up from the hole they are stuck in.

Maybe she doesn't deserve it. Maybe she does. So thoughtless disparagement of 'she's a self centered cheater and she always will be' becomes a self fulfilling prophesy if she's constantly met with that attitude.

Reeling: has she given the OM a no contact letter and has she been transparent about her commuincations and emails?

It isn't much considering they are three turns from a supply closet but it's SOMETHING.


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

^ Seriously? 

I'd expect something along the lines of this from a very different poster.

Its pretty clear cut what happened here.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

The WD is the breadwinner in the relationship. The SIL is the dutiful forgiving wife. This is a backwards marriage. 

The SIL is as messed up as the daughter.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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