# Foggy



## mr_confused (Oct 14, 2011)

I need a beacon of light.

As I foggily ramble....
I love her but I am not in love with her......
It's not her, it's me.....
I love her like a sibling.....

Is it not true? It's how I feel right now...

Am I in a fog now....or was it the years absent of sex and my loneliness that made me vulnerable and only now do I see clearly? 

Nothing can justify my decision, certainly I should have been able to hold things together. I guess I could have given half my worth and time as a parent up and started alone. I guess that would have been the respectable thing to do.

Should she have cared more when she discovered the affair? What does her apathy tell me? Did she not care along as suspected, or has she just given up on me now? 

Shouldn't a couple talk about such things? Is an affair in a relationship worthy of more than a 2-3 hour conversation and never mentioned again?

Why am I the only one sad and disappointed in me?

I may never know the real reasons....

I read these stories and I see the pain of the betrayed....and I wonder....did your spouses know you had such love for them? I would never betray someone that loved me.....or it that just more foggy babble....


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Sober up and come back when you are lucid.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

Arnold said:


> Sober up and come back when you are lucid.


:lol:


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## mr_confused (Oct 14, 2011)

That's funny 

It's all good and well and unfortunately all too predictable, guess my reasoning is as well.

Try 15 years of inadequate sex and affection in your marriage...than...add 4 years, yes ~200 weeks, that's ~1500 days without having sex with your spouse.....then have people hold you accountable to monogamy. 

But wait, before you do something immoral, I'll give you two options:
1. Write a check in excess of $1mm and tell your daughter you are leaving
2. Continue to live this way.

Sorry, created my own option.

Don't get your feathers all ruffled. My wife knows.....she got over it in less than 2 days and it has never come up again.....not once....4 months later.

I guess she still comes out on top because my options remain the same....

Make fun of it all you want....it's not funny living in it.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Nice example you and your wife are giving your daughter about what marriage is all about.


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## mr_confused (Oct 14, 2011)

Morituri - thanks for your snide comment. I wish the world were contained to nice little boxes where I could evaluate everything in such a compartmentalized way. My child sees neither an ideal marriage nor is she aware of any fundamental issues.

I guess we could have split, forced her to move, change schools, forfeit her involvement in extracurricular activities (among other hardships) to show her what people do when they can't fix their problems.

We make a number of concessions in life in the interest of our children. They are rarely decisions made without some associated consequence. 

These are not my sentiments alone, my wife is fully informed and makes the same decision. My child is a prospering student, member of the church, athlete, and wonderful young lady - I wasn't prepared to jeopardize all of that, nor was my wife, for our own personal wants and needs.

Ideally yes, we would be a model unified and loving parental unit, but the world isn't all peaches and cream dear.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

if you can write a check for a million then financially I think everyone will be fine in a divorce


you're being a coward by either not fixing the marriage or doing what's right to end it


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

mr_confused said:


> Morituri - thanks for your snide comment. I wish the world were contained to nice little boxes where I could evaluate everything in such a compartmentalized way. My child sees neither an ideal marriage nor is she aware of any fundamental issues.
> 
> I guess we could have split, forced her to move, change schools, forfeit her involvement in extracurricular activities (among other hardships) to show her what people do when they can't fix their problems.
> 
> ...


Okay. So your stuck. What are you going to actually DO to make your life better? If you aren't getting sex then she doesn't find you attractive. 
Work on YOU. for YOU. 
Start now.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

I was in a sexless marriage for a similar time(of course my XW was cheating, so she was getting sex).
In any case, I think you need to bite the bullet and divorce, unless you want to continue like this.
Save the melodrama. Many of us have faced the same thing:wife shutting down the sex life. The choice to cheat was a bad one. Doesn't make you Hitler or anything. But, very few marriages survive infidelity. Your wife, despite her outward non-chalance, is not going to let this go. And, unless you want lifetime celibacy(if the Catholic church is so insistent on celibacy for priests, why not let them marry )you might want to connsider taking the financial hit and divorcing. Kids do okay with it.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

mr_confused said:


> Morituri - thanks for your snide comment. I wish the world were contained to nice little boxes where I could evaluate everything in such a compartmentalized way. My child sees neither an ideal marriage nor is she aware of any fundamental issues.


What would you do if you found out that while you were suffering all these years in a sexless/loveless marriage, you're wife was having her needs met by other men like Arnold's wife? Would you stay the course you are on?

BTW no malice is intended with the posing of this question.


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## mr_confused (Oct 14, 2011)

It would not bother me in the least. It would actually explain a number of things I cannot make sense of as it. I have looked for signs but can't find any, so I am left to believe she is absent of the need for intimacy, has needs that are satisfied by her role as a parent, or simply doesn't have such feelings for me.

It is easy to say now....but gaining acceptance of this has taken many years.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

mr_confused said:


> It would not bother me in the least.


Forgive me for saying this but as the old saying goes 'until you cross that bridge...'.

But let's say for the sake of argument that you are right in saying that it wouldn't bother you in the least, it would then show how emotionally detached you have been from your wife and how that contributed to the sexless/loveless marriage which in turn helped the two of you to look outside the marriage to get your emotional needs satisfied.

You talk about your wife not wanting sexual intimacy with you but have you looked deep inside yourself to see what you may have contributed to turn her off sexually to you?


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

mr_confused said:


> Don't get your feathers all ruffled. My wife knows.....she got over it in less than 2 days and it has never come up again.....not once....4 months later.
> 
> .


You didn't tell her the truth. You mimimized your relationship with this hussy and now question why your wife "got over it"? Could it be that because she doesn't have the full story, she actually believes you and your continued lies? She is the one who wants to work on the marriage and I suspect the only reason she does is because she only has half truths. For you to blame her for "not being emotional enough" is ridiculous. If you think she isn't going to be emotional, why lie and not tell the truth? You already know the answer to that and it isn't because you want to spare her more pain.


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## mr_confused (Oct 14, 2011)

Oh bright eyes, you are so assuming.

I haven't lied to my wife. I also have not disclosed everything. So you know my wife doesn't blame me or seem confused by my actions - in fact she said she understands why I would seek sex outside my marriage. I guess that is easy to understand when you aren't getting any inside the marriage.

I came here for advice and suggestions. Neither of which I see in your response. If judging and/or condemning is of value to you given whatever you've endured, by all means.....continue. I'm not withholding information here, I share what seems relevant to the question at hand, I'll equally answer any questions you have.

I'm not basing my decision on my wife's reaction. I shared it as a point of reference, I do think it speaks volumes about the state of a marriage when a woman is largely unaffected by the fact her husband is having recurring sex with another woman. I don't care what I disclose or keep to myself - keep it simple.....her spouse is having sex with someone else. I'd expect a reaction, extensive dialog, inquiries regarding the extent of the relationship, etc..

I'm not sparing her any pain. That is correct.... I don't why you'd assume as much, but I guess from your tone and presumptuous comments - you've got everyone pegged after only a few paragraphs.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

mr_confused said:


> It would not bother me in the least. It would actually explain a number of things I cannot make sense of as it. I have looked for signs but can't find any, so I am left to believe she is absent of the need for intimacy, has needs that are satisfied by her role as a parent, or simply doesn't have such feelings for me.
> 
> It is easy to say now....but gaining acceptance of this has taken many years.


Huh? Your wife getting sex while you, in reliance on the contract, are forgoing siilar opportunities, would not bother you? Damn, mind if I sell you a fake life insurance policy and collect the premiums or something of that nature?
WTF, I was pissed as hell when i found out that a good chunk of my life had been wasted/stolen.
I do not believe it would not bother you, just because it explains things.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Let's skip the pedantry and just look at this. You want sex, right. You have no access with your wife. She is not open to fixing this. You are reasonably financially successful. You have one kid, who you love.
WTF is so hard about getting a divorce and making sure , to the best of your ability, that your kid comes throguh it alright? if you wait too long, your capacity for sex will be diminished by age and you will regret it.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

mr_confused said:


> Oh bright eyes, you are so assuming.
> 
> I haven't lied to my wife. I also have not disclosed everything. So you know my wife doesn't blame me or seem confused by my actions - in fact she said she understands why I would seek sex outside my marriage. I guess that is easy to understand when you aren't getting any inside the marriage.
> 
> ...


I was saying that you are upset that your wife isn't more upset. What I was suggesting is that if she knew the entire truth, I am certain her reaction would be different. I apologize if that didn't come out in my earlier comment.


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## mr_confused (Oct 14, 2011)

Arnold - I really don't think it would bother me. Despite all this crap, I care for my wife. It concerns me that she lacks interest in sex and is forgoing one of life's greatest pleasures.

It will all come to a head in due time.....

I was just noticing as I read these stories I felt like the odd man out. Seeing the hurt infidelity caused so many people - and expecting the same reaction from my wife - I was surprised. I knew the world wouldn't stop turning, but I thought there would be a more serious reaction.

I wonder how much of it is SHOCK in a typical marriage. Our issues are long standing and discussed at length. I just think it would be hard in my marriage to believe things are ok and be blindsided by an affair. I guess it's the same reason I feel confident if my wife had one, I'd understand.

I suspect often an affair is a problem that has huge consequences. I just think we have huge problems and the affair is just the most recent consequence. Prior to that is was lack of sex, followed by lack of kissing/touching, followed by lack of meaningful interest in one another, then lack of doing things together, etc.. When you go down a path like this over a series of many years and discover an affair - it's not welcomed for sure, but it's also no big unexpected shock and upheaval of life as you know it.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

mr_confused said:


> Should she have cared more when she discovered the affair? What does her apathy tell me? Did she not care along as suspected, or has she just given up on me now?
> 
> Shouldn't a couple talk about such things? Is an affair in a relationship worthy of more than a 2-3 hour conversation and never mentioned again?


Ok first of all, you cheated and are still cheating on your wife and yu are upset that upon finding out she didn't react the way you wanted her to? Say what? 

Second of all, if you want to talk about the affair so badly, why not tell her everything that happened, what really happened, that it's still happening instead of getting pissed off she isn't having the meltdown you want her to yet you are still cheating on her? You said yourself:



mr_confused said:


> I haven't lied to my wife. I also have not disclosed everything.


You have lied. You're cheating. And by not telling her everything, you are STILL lying.

So again, if you feel a couple "should talk about these things" why don't you start doing the talking? After all, it's your affair you're upset that your wife isnt' talking about.

Is it opposite day?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Oh and why haven't you gotten a divorce yet since you're so unhappy in your marriage? Your affair is long-term. Just divorce your wife already. What's the hold up?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Oh and why haven't you gotten a divorce yet sinice you're so unhappy in your marriage? Your affair is long-term. Just divorce your wife already. What's the hold up?


:iagree:

He's waiting for the right reaction.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Ah, yes. That. LOL.


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Here is a possibility re her reaction (although I agree that it seems a little weird that you focus on that as a sign of her apathy vs other issues).

If a betrayed spouse has a decent ego, some pride etc, it is very common thathe or she would want to convey an attitude of nonchalance. This is fairly easy to understand. Showing one's pain to someone that has betrayed you is degrading. You are telling the cheater that he or she is so important to you that you are in pain, whereas the cheater has just delivered a message to you that you matter very little to him or her. See the dynamic?
You are a successful guy, probably reasonably bright. I assume your wife has decent candlepower , as well, since folks, generally , gravitate toward spouses with similar intellects. she is bright enough and sensitive enough with a decently developed ego that she may not want to give you the satisfaction of knowing how much you mean to her, under these circumstances.
Just a theory. But, for me, I made sure my XWs never saw me cry, plead, importune or any of that crap. I have a background as a competitive athlete and am in a profession where you just do not show the enemy your underbelly. Perhaps she is of a similar nature.


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## mr_confused (Oct 14, 2011)

JellyBean - I like you. You've posted over 7k posts. Perhaps your know it all, hard nosed approach, is a way of sharing what you learned from your own infidelity that cost you your marriage. 

See, I am here in advance of ending mine, trying to learn. You are espousing offensive know it all judgments & remarks instead of sharing wisdom from your own experience. Who appointed you the vigilante against crimes you previously committed? 

I was clear about why I haven't left, but you skip the details in your mad blast to tell 100's of people a day what they should do.

I have stayed for three reasons. One - fear of change. Two - my child doesn't need to suffer so I can be happy. This I will balance as she has matured and is better equipped to "understand" relationships don't always work out. Three - $. Plain and simple the economic down turn has hit me hard. We own multiple properties and investments liquidating is quite costly.

Now, you seem bitter. Guess what - so am I. You can judge all you want my affair. I can equally tell you that I loved my wife, with all my heart, I cried like a pathetic soul too many times to count that it hurt at my core to love a woman that was unable to connect with me emotionally or physically. To this day I am the only one in therapy. I am the only one bothered. So yes, I could have left - but no - I am not foregoing a lifestyle I have worked tirelessly for two decades to obtain OR MORE IMPORTANTLY my ability to be a full time parent because my wife chose to ignore her side of the vows.

LOVE AND CHERISH

so yes I broke mine

FORSAKE ALL OTHERS

So you can ***** slap me around on me broken vows but remember there are other factors at play. My wife knows it - thus her "acceptance". That was our discussion and our joint assessment of our maririage.

The deal now is that she "commits" to now love and cherish me and I question those motives. Is it suppressed love that she is now willing to share and embrace......or is it the loss of material possessions she has come to comfortably enjoy.

Additionally, I don't feel the same. Time has a way changing things when you go this long in this situation. And unquestionably, an affair isn't helping. But the generalized advice of returning to your marriage is hard to assess given it wasn't a bed of roses prior to the affair. The affair didn't destroy a good thing - the affair is a result of a bad thing. 

I'll own my affair, but I am not the owner of our marital issues. My wife doesn't blame me - I'm pretty sure she knows our situation better than you. 


Sorry to be long winded.....


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## mr_confused (Oct 14, 2011)

That's insightful Arnold! Thanks for sharing that perspective!


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Yeah, well if your wife withheld affection, and you cheated, then it sounds like you are even(assuming she agree she intentionally withheld affection).
I have a friend who has similar situation. We played college basketball together ,after growing up playing street ball and highschool ball togehther. We are tight.
I found out he cheats on his wife about a year ago. Guy is an Adonis, so opportunities are plentiful.
But , here is the deal. He justifies it like you do, attributing it to his wife's coldness. But, one gets into a chicken and the egg argument here. Perhaps his wife is cold, because he is the type of person who cheats. Maybe he even cheated before she became cold and , on the instinctive level, at least, she "knows" it and thus withdrew.
In your case, I presume you allege that the coldness predates the cheating, right? But, ask yourself this"if i am the type of person who cheats in response to dissatisfaction, is it possible that I have other less than admirable qualities that caused my wife to grow cold?"
In other words, the cheating, in and of it self may be a sign of character flaws that, by themselves,would cause a spouse to withdraw?
Just food for thought.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

mr_confused said:


> JellyBean - I like you. *You've posted over 7k posts*. Perhaps your know it all, hard nosed approach, is a way of sharing what you learned from *your own infidelity that cost you your marriage. *


Oooh! Entire paragraphs dedicated to just me. Don't get it twisted though, I am not quite at 7k posts. Though you seem to take a keen interest in me so it's nice you're paying (some) attention.  
Re: what "cost" me my marriage. You certainly don't know my story. My husband cheated, too.  



mr_confused said:


> See, I am here in advance of ending mine, trying to learn. You are espousing offensive know it all judgments & remarks instead of sharing wisdom from your own experience. Who appointed you the vigilante against crimes you previously committed?


Bitter? Cause you sure do come across that way. The vigilante against crimes you previously committed? Who knew there was an appointment? Maybe I do need a crown or something. Perhaps a plaque? 

My posts aren't meant to offend. This is an open forum. People (like you) come on, ask questions, voice concerns and they get feedback. I post from my own point of view/wisdom. As do others. You don't have to like what I write. In fact you can put any single one of us on "ignore" if we're not "doing" it for you. 

It's completely reasonable to ask someone (you) why they haven't gotten a divorce yet if they are still cheating on their wife and yet at the same time seemingly upset by the fact their wife didn't "react" the way they wanted her to after discovering their affair. 

You never did say how she found out. 



mr_confused said:


> I was clear about why I haven't left, but you skip the details in your mad blast to tell 100's of people a day what they should do.


No. You weren't clear. Until right now when you broke it down in your 3-step reasoning. 

It comes down to this: you need to make a decision: stay or go. Continuing the affair isn't the answer. Not talking about major issues with your wife isn't the answer. 

Good luck.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

confused, believe arnold's suggestion... you're w has been hurt more than you can understand by your infidelity. The fact that she is showing either strength, or even if it just is nonchalant, and it is disappointing you means you are being narcisisitc or else plain sadistic. Arnold' chicken and egg metaphor is very appropriate because even though you meay believe she grew cold first your subconscious mind has rewritten your history to great lengths to cope with the cognitive dissonance of your behavior. I also don't see why it is so hard to just divorce, you have the means and it is probably the only way either of you will find peace again, stop waiting to see the hurt on her face that is just cruel.


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## mr_confused (Oct 14, 2011)

Jelly Bean - I posted a story months ago under a separate account I can't even find, but you were quick then to reply in a similar fashion. I read your story - I knew you both were cheaters. Tough stuff, anyway, all is well that ends well. We live and learn.

As far as your award....hmm...I'd give you a crown. Really nearly 7k posts must put you in rare air among the group here. I'm not sure I'd consider posting a hobby or sport, but if treated as such you certainly deserve some level of recognition for the time you've spent. I wish you the best, hopefully your experience and this board don't define you and you will apply what you have learned to a future loving relationship and move on.

For me, somewhat different than yourself, I don't expect much clarity in hindsight from my "situation". I'm a classic over thinker, so I knew well what I was doing, associated consequences, and it was an informed decision. My affair has been less about elation, euphoric rushes, and crazy hot sex - and more about self reflection, a fork in the road of life, and a way to keep my home situation on life support until my child ages and recover from the blow this economy placed upon us.

Certainly I could divorce and run, my wife could file as well. We both discussed our daughter, the finances, and our marriage and as of right now neither is charging into the lawyer's office to expedite anything. I have however drafted a settlement agreement regarding assets and assessed my child support and alimony payments in consult with legal representation.

Lon - thanks for your thoughts as well. I know and completely understand your perspective. I honestly would write the exact same thing. I get the fog, rewriting history, blame shifting, etc.. I also know my wife well, over 20 years. We had a very candid conversation. There is no reason for her to lie, we don't protect our egos in that way, we know each other quite well and short of writing a book here I know what I know - and she is NOT devastated. This was not a surprise to her, I told her all along I could not live my life this way and when those words became reality she indicated she expected as much. I realize it is difficult to take me as an exception to every rule we use to characterize an affair but it is the case in my marriage. We don't sit around and blame one another, we discuss where we are and what to do about it. She knows I am in therapy and contemplating a divorce. I encouraged her to seek counseling as well to address her issues with intimacy but she currently has chosen not to do so.

I know I am a little pissy on some of my posts. The whole situation isn't something that I find uplifting. For that, I apologize. I've been to a few boards and typically I start all interactions receiving the same advice, feedback, generalizations, etc. and upon getting to know the people we usually find our situations are each distinct. My therapist certainly doesn't condone affairs, but she also recognizes the characteristics of my marriage that present distinct challenges. 

I usually state, and will again, I don't justify my affair. It's not right regardless of anything my wife does, nor is it ok because of how strongly (or not) she reacts. We married with certain vows. Many have been broken over time, our marriage is broken, and one failing was compounded by another. It will never be a successful marriage in the company of an affair. Equally it will never be successful in the absence of an affair unless all the other issues are addressed.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

mr_confused said:


> Jelly Bean - I posted a story months ago under a separate account I can't even find, but you were quick then to reply in a similar fashion. I read your story - I knew you both were cheaters. Tough stuff, anyway, all is well that ends well. We live and learn.
> 
> As far as your award....hmm...I'd give you a crown. Really nearly 7k posts must put you in rare air among the group here. I'm not sure I'd consider posting a hobby or sport, but if treated as such you certainly deserve some level of recognition for the time you've spent. I wish you the best, hopefully your experience and this board don't define you and you will apply what you have learned to a future loving relationship and move on.
> 
> ...


So what's your plan then? To continue the affair? What does your OW want? Are you in love with her?


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## HerToo (Oct 3, 2011)

Back to your original post, I can understand the short shock and go silent period you are going through. In my case, my wife is scared that I will leave her despite that I have implemented the heavy lifting plan, no contact rule, boundaries, and complete transparency. If it wasn't for the hurt I see in her every day, it would feel like I'm the clown in the center ring and she is watching what I do next.

The first thing you need to do is to go to individual counseling so that you can get a grip on what happened and why. Then talk to your wife about what you want to do next such as fix your marriage, or understand where your marriage is now and what the next step should be that works for both of you. Either way, you will need marriage counseling for this. Perhaps you wife can go to individual counseling as well. 

You are trying to make a decision at a point in your life when making a decision of any kind will not be supported by facts. Welcome to my world!!!

In the meantime, talk to your wife every day and show that you care for her. Even if you don't feel the deep love that you once did, you still love her or you wouldn't be here posting like the rest of us cheaters here are doing well. 

Slow down and follow the process (advice I can barely do myself). Each day is tough. But you must be there for your wife, despite the personal shame you feel. I bet you feel that you no longer deserve her love. And the affair provided 100% of what you like in life. But the affair did not have the challenges of the real world placed upon it. Your marriage does, and you've made it work for a long time now.

So go to counseling and get started on getting your life back. Regardless of which way it ends up, it will be clear why things turned out the way the did.

Also, implement all of the rules on yourself like I did. Hold yourself accountable. Try to earn back your self respect by sticking to the rules.

Good luck


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## Arnold (Oct 25, 2011)

Here is a question that came to my mind based on something you wrote. Why would there be child support? You guys have one kid, right? Wasn't your wife working and isn't her earning capacity equal to yours? I hope you did not make the classic men's mistake, like I did, and went along with this stay at home mom scam. 
And, further, wouldn't you get shared, 50/50 custody? Or , is the deck stacjed in your jurisdiction, as it is in many?


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