# Ex believes our 4 year old needs therapy, I disagree. Thoughts?



## Jpp3 (Sep 6, 2016)

So it has been a couple of months since I posted, and the first time in this forum. Recently I was going through hell, my now ex (not at the time) left for vacation with our daughter. The day they were set to return she emailed me saying she was leaving me and staying in NJ with our daughter(we lived in AZ) I stayed in AZ and took her to court. After 5 months of court (still going through it) LONG story short we have settled and I have now moved to New Jersey and assumed 50/50 custody of my daughter with 4 nights and 3 days. 

I have been here a month now and it has been so great spending time with my daughter, I cannot explain. I am staying with my brother and sister in law, not ideal but they are great and have been wonderful helping me out while I get settled ( I still own a home in AZ and paying a mortgage) 

She spend 5 months while I was in AZ living at her parents. Now that I have moved here she has been renting a room at her ex husband's house where her daughter from her last marriage lives (we were never married)

Now that she is spending time over here she is saying she doesn't want to go back to Mom's. At first she was just telling me this, and it broke my heart to hear and after having her taken from me for 5 months kind of felt like a win. "She will adjust, and all will be good" I thought. Well my ex called me up today crying because our daughter is being mean to her. Saying she hates her, that she is mean, and that she wants to come to Daddy's. 

First she yelled at me at me and says she wishes I never came back, that I'm putting **** in her head, etc... Then she calms down.
And says, and not for the first time (she mentioned it a while ago) that she thinks our child needs therapy. Now if you have read any of my posts with so back ground about our relationship or our break up you would see why this is ironic to me. 

Now to me, it's seems that our child missed me, she is confused about why I'm now here, why me and her mom don't live together anymore. She is adjusting just maybe not as my ex would like but it's a lot of change. She just started school on top of everything. I think after getting into a routine, I stay at dad's these days, mom these days, I go to school these days. And as she finds routine and is assured that I'm not leaving again that she will have give her mother less of a hard time. I think therapy is excessive.

I told her that im not saying no, that we can consult her physician if she felt it necessary, but I also told her that I completely disagree.

Any one have any experience with child therapists, at that young? Or just any thoughts in general?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

It might help for your daughter to see a therapist for a while.. a good play therapist. Kids her age are too young to really verbalize their feelings. They act them out. That's why a good play therapist helps.

To me it sounds like your daughter needs someone to protect her from her mother's antics and to teach her how to deal with it. And you are not the person to do that. Anything you do will be seen as bad mouthing her mother.

I put my son in therapy at that age because of issues that were going on at home and then when I left his father. I think it helped him by giving him someone else to talk to who was not one of his parents.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

^^^^^ THIS. I agree with *EleGirl*. I will only add that, if your Ex is a BPDer as you suspect, her daughters are at risk of developing BPD. It is unclear how high that risk is because only a few studies (all with small sample sizes) have been done. Three older studies (1985 and 1988) found that _"between 10 and 20 percent of first-degree relatives of people with BPD also have BPD...."_ See BPD Survival Guide (at p. 42). 

A more recent 2011 study, however, estimates the risk at between 28% and 37%. It therefore concludes that _"An individual with a first-degree relative showing BPD exhibited a statistically significant 3- to 4-fold increase in risk of BPD compared with an individual without a first-degree relative with BPD." _See "Comment" section of BPD Family Study. Whereas the earlier studies had been based on self-reporting by the BPDer patient being treated, this 2011 study was based on interviews of both the BPDer patients and their affected family members. 

The NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) reports a 30% figure. It states "BPD is about five times more common among people who have a first-degree relative with the disorder." See NAMI on BPD. Given that the lifetime incidence is 6% for the general population, this estimate would place the risk at 30%.


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## Jpp3 (Sep 6, 2016)

Thank you guys. I will look into it. She sees her physician on Tuesday perhaps he can recommend someone. 

I agree it may be good for her to have someone to talk to and agree that anything I have to say will be seen as an attack. This has already started. Anytime my daughter says or does something she doesn't like she immediately calls or texts me to tell me all about it and blame me and accuse me of trying to "turn our daughter against her"

I grew up with divorced parents and I noticed at a young age my mother would constantly talk bad about my father, but my father never said a word about my mother. I have been following my father's lead. Even when I want to, even when I'm angry I keep that to myself or talk to someone else about it and never show my daughter.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

It never hurts to give a child therapy, but the REAL issue you need to be talking about and fixing is why doesn't she like it with mommy? That tells me that your ex doesn't have a good grasp on how to be a good parent.

IIWY, I would first suggest to her that you find a FAMILY therapist to "help your daughter." Let ex think it's for daughter. But tell the therapist ahead of time that daughter doesn't like being with her mom. The therapist will know what that means and will address it in therapy.

And if your ex refuses to go, go back to court and DEMAND it

And your take on silently suffering is not correct, IMO. What do you think you're teaching your daughter? YOUR parents taught you that women are strong and men are weak. So you naturally picked a strong woman so you could emulate your parents' marriage and hope that your wife would 'fix' the dysfunction you grew up in (read Getting The Love You Want by Hendrix). But she didn't. She was just as ballsy as your mom. 

So now you have an opportunity to show your child a better way. Your child is growing up in the same dysfunction and, of course, when she is at YOUR place, she/he feels safe, loved, wanted, and stress-free. Of course she doesn't want to go back to mommy who creates drama, guilts her own child, blames her child's dad to make her feel better, on and on.

Your wife is the one who really needs therapy. But you'll likely only get it through going through family therapy.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I would caution you to carefully screen the therapist. You want to avoid the man-haters who see abuse in everything. They are out there. We see this kind of person all the time in the child protective agencies. You can see on the therapist's website what their specialties are, and this can give you some idea what their bent is.

Since there is no clear problem you have stated, I'm not sure really what malady is being alleged by her mom. So, I think a family oriented therapist is what you should be looking for. If anything, your daughter is having adjustment anxieties or confusions due to the family breaking up and all of the craziness of how she was moved across the country. I would be looking for a therapist who works a lot with families and children during divorce. I would stay away from ones who list abuse or related issues (eating disorders, self harm) as major areas of interest.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Personally, I agree with you. Give this a little time. She is SO young. Lots of changes. Give the sweet little soul a breather to get used to all these changes and then reassess. 

I wish you all much happiness in your new area and that your co-parenting can go as well as possible.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Uptown said:


> ^^^^^ THIS. I agree with *EleGirl*. I will only add that, if your Ex is a BPDer as you suspect, her daughters are at risk of developing BPD. It is unclear how high that risk is because only a few studies (all with small sample sizes) have been done. Three older studies (1985 and 1988) found that _"between 10 and 20 percent of first-degree relatives of people with BPD also have BPD...."_ See BPD Survival Guide (at p. 42).
> 
> A more recent 2011 study, however, estimates the risk at between 28% and 37%. It therefore concludes that _"An individual with a first-degree relative showing BPD exhibited a statistically significant 3- to 4-fold increase in risk of BPD compared with an individual without a first-degree relative with BPD." _See "Comment" section of BPD Family Study. Whereas the earlier studies had been based on self-reporting by the BPDer patient being treated, this 2011 study was based on interviews of both the BPDer patients and their affected family members.
> 
> The NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) reports a 30% figure. It states "BPD is about five times more common among people who have a first-degree relative with the disorder." See NAMI on BPD. Given that the lifetime incidence is 6% for the general population, this estimate would place the risk at 30%.


I would like to add [from a layman's perspective] that part of this BPD 'tendency' may be 'learned' as opposed to be 'innate'. 'Unpleasant', selfish behavior, learned from the flawed and displaying parent.

I am sure there is a genetic, or epi-genetic tendency to this behavior [reacting to stimuli; reacting, interacting within one's personal and extra-personal human environment].

Getting the child away from the flaky, shallow mother would likely shield the child from developing this behavior down the road. In many cases this behavior is not inevitable, in my mind, anyway.

Just a thought'

Just Sayin'


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