# How do I wait to confront?



## Cold_Roses (Oct 2, 2013)

I'm not not going to give a detailed background on our relationship; I don't think it is needed. I just need help on what to do next.

I have been married 2 years and dating the same woman for 8 years. We've had our ups and downs but we're very close and have had a strong relationship. If asked yesterday I would've said we were doing great - always doing things, talking about issues, and a good sex life.

But, today I found that my wife has been unfaithful. To what extent I don't know. I know that she has texted and exchanged pictures since around March with a guy. I have not seen what the pictures were but the few texts I saw were of those of people in a relationship. My phone records show she texts him almost as much as me (102-me 86-him) in the last month. I don't see any phone calls. The guy is traveling rep for a company my wife works with. He doesn't live in this state but I know they've met at least once.

I don't have the amount of evidence I need to confront my wife at this time. I should know in the next couple weeks what is exactly going on.

How do I cope while I'm gathering more evidence? How do i put on a happy face and not spiral into despair? When is it too long to keep suffering? 

Additionally, this past month we have been trying to have a baby - on her strong suggestion. She just started her period yesterday. But I know in a few days she'll want to continue trying to get pregnant. How to I handle this? Grin and bare it or confront her with the little info I have and hope she comes clean?

Thanks for any advice. I need it.


----------



## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Absolutely stop trying to have a baby and get tested for STD's.

Ask yourself if the roles were reversed would she accept such disrespectful behavior from you?

Make sure she is not already pregnant from the OM.

You do not even consider bring a child into a relationship where you suspect your wife of cheating. If you do and then find out she is indeed cheating you will end up being divorced anyway and also paying child support on top of this.

I think something is awfully strange where your wife is trying to have a child with you and at the same time being at the very least in an emotional affair with another man at the same time. Something is terribly wrong here.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Normally I would say gather more evidence but with the timing of her period you have to have a sit down tonight. No emotion but to the point. Just say "I am not ok with this"


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

What have you been able to find out about the om? Married, kids?

How often does he come into town?

Do you want to reconcile if possible?


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Are you positive she started her period or are you relying on her word? Everything she tells you now has to be independently verified.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Chaparral said:


> Are you positive she started her period or are you relying on her word? Everything she tells you now has to be independently verified.


Do not get her pregnant until you know what you are up against. If she says nothing is going on say ok then you won't mind taking a polygraph.


----------



## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

I wouldn't worry about the baby thing if she got her period. Dollars to donuts, the idea of having a baby is gone. I speculate that she thought she was already pregnant with the OM kid and was going to try and pass it off as yours.

Putting on a strong face is probably the hardest thing your going to have to do if you want to get more evidence. Thing is, the more she believes your clueless, the more mistakes she's going to make. If she thinks you suspect something, she going to be on her guard and hiding things better. So, you need to put on an Oscar worthy performance. Come up with an excuse as to why you can't have sex with her. Fake a groin strain or something. That's a great excuse to get to the Doctor and tested for STD's.


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Feign illness so you don't have sex with her. Tell her you pulled a groin muscle and are wprried it might be the beginning of a hernia. Or tell her you think you have a urinary infection. Or your throat is sore. Something which makes you icky to her.

Is there a way to recover the pictures? 

Either you go full nuke on her now, or you go full spy on her.

For sure don't have sex witj her!!!

You have enough data to know with certainty she is disloyal to your marriage. It is enough data for you to nuke her and demand all the correct actions to work towards reconciliation. You do not have to prove to her she is cheating. But if you expose now you will have to be confident and tough. Don't argue with her about what you know or what your position is.

It is best to never reveal your sources. You will have to be vague about what exactly you know and how you got it.

I think installing some spy tech before confrontation would be smart. You"ll learn a lot mor. VAR in her car, keylog the computer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Sorry you are here, but glad you found us.

Please check out this thread http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...one-interested-evidence-gathering-thread.html


----------



## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Don't risk herpes or HIV. There have been cases on this forum where betrayed spouses have been exposed to and even received such surprise "gifts" from their cheating spouses. Don't have sex with her until you know that she is not having sex with him and if she was having sex with him, until after she has been tested. Getting herpes or HIV would be a life-altering experience. Don't risk it.


----------



## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Speed up your investigation - buy a couple of voice-activated recorders, place one in her car and one in the house where she talks on the phone when you are not around. Even if she never talks to other man on the phone, many cheating wives confide in their girlfriends, and the voice-activated recorder may pick up just such a conversation between your wife and one of her friends. Most people who use the voice-activated recorder find out the truth of the situation within a week.


----------



## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

You said you know they already met once. Most likely, they meet up pretty much the same way each time. Dig into the phone bills, the bank statements, the credit card bills on dates when you suspect she may have been cheating in the past, and look for charges that will prove her a liar (for example, you remember that on the Saturday before July 4 she said she was going over a friends house, but there is an ATM withdrawal at a bank 20 miles away in the opposite direction on that date).


----------



## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Cold_Roses said:


> today I found that my wife has been unfaithful. To what extent I don't know. I know that she has texted and exchanged pictures since around March with a guy. I have not seen what the pictures were but the few texts I saw were of those of people in a relationship. My phone records show she texts him almost as much as me (102-me 86-him) in the last month. I don't see any phone calls. The guy is traveling rep for a company my wife works with. He doesn't live in this state but I know they've met at least once.
> 
> *I don't have the amount of evidence I need to confront my wife *at this time. I should know in the next couple weeks what is exactly going on.


If you are confident enough and willing to walk away when she denies the affair because you KNOW it must be a lie, then you can confront. Tell her that you will not believe some nonsensical story about how they are just friends based on the evidence that you do have and that if she can't respect you enough to just tell you the truth instead of some nonsensical lie, that you are divorcing her.

Also tell her that if she's so sure this is just normal "friend" behavior and you have no right to be suspicious, then you both should tell all of your friends, parents, and siblings about the texts, their frequency, their content, them meeting up, and her not saying a word about it to you, and let them decide if they think you have a right to be very suspicious of such a situation.

And if she does acknowledge that you have a right to be suspicious but she really is just friends, then she should agree to a polygraph to prove it - after all, she is admitting that it looks very suspicious.


----------



## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

whenever you do confront---be cool calculating and calm---no arguing, no discussion---say what you have to say---make sure she understands her consequences for her behavioral breakdown---then leave---get out of the house for a few hours

Go dark on her---let her stew over what you have hit her with---under no circumstances do you back down----no mr nice--guy---no lovey--dovey----draw your line in the sand---and hold the line

But make sure you HAVE YOUR PROOF


----------



## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Here is COMPLETE STEP BY STEP instructions. Get on this yesterday, KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT, FEIGN illness. Results in an active affair have come as few as TWO DAYS if you keep your MOUTH SHUT, EYES OPEN and do this so as not to make her suspicious and make her take it underground.

Confront with hard evidence. Have your confront script printed. SAVE YOUR PROOF OFFSITE AND IN TWO SEPARATE PLACES!!!!

My usual cut paste follows:

Your wife is acting funny. Her phone and email suddenly have passwords you don't know. She shuts down phone apps or changes windows on the computer whenever you enter the room. She is suddenly staying out until 2 to 5 in the morning. She has new single friends. She has lost weight and is dressing hotter to boot. Her ex contacted her 3 weeks ago and she wants “to meet to catch up at some public place” Any of this sound familiar? 

If you are reading this your gut is going crazy. “Relax”, in that there is a high liklihood that you are not crazy at least. “Your gut” is your basic instinct from the caveman period. There is something up with your mate. It is part of your mind built into you and in your DNA. You probably cant sleep. You are losing weight like crazy and are not hungry. Well if you are reading this and that is 90% of you reading this if its your first time... You are embarking on what is probably going to be the worst time of your life.

Chin up, yes I know it is damn near impossible to believe now, but I and the people at TAM here have taken dozens of men through this process. Some reconcile, most dont in the long run so be aware. Most of us hang around this grim grim place for a sense of “pay it forward” and “getting at the truth” Even in divorce, the long run the majority find love again... yes really. Often selecting a far far better future companion. Read poster BFF for a thread of disaster, divorce, recovery, and a new wonderful woman in his life. Younger and hotter, yes, but also one with better boundaries, often a far far better personality match. Oh and they get to go through that first time with her after the first I love you's have been exchanged. Just know, that for the majority, even if the marriage crashes, in six months, a year, maybe two you will wonder how you got so far so fast and how great your new life is. You will also be MUCH MUCH stronger as a person.

So. Here are your instructions. Do this now. I dont mean next week. I mean make something up within the next day and GET IT DONE! Not looking will only prolong your agony.

NO MORE CONFRONTS!! Play dumb husband for a bit. Dont drive her further underground! Soft confronts RARELY WORK AND ONLY MAKE GETTING AT THE TRUTH HARDER!!! THIS PROLONGS YOUR AGONY! NEVER give up you get your intel from the VAR. You tell her, you always got your info from a PI or someone saw them. Hard confronts with overwhelming evidence to crush all resistance are the name of the game.

Buy 2 sony ICDPX312 voice activated recorders. Best Buy sells them for like 50 bucks. DO NOT BUY THE cheapies. USE LITHIUM batteries. We have examples of 25 hour recordings using them on these sony recorders. My icon IS a Sony ICDPX312. No I do not have stock in nor work for Sony.

Setup instructions are on page 19. Also good stuff on page 31.
Use 44K bit rate for balancing file size vs quality DO NOT USE 8K!!!!! Simply put. The higher the quality the better the sound and 8K sucks. ALSO. The higher the quality the more you can manipulate the mp3 in Audacity.
Set VOR "on" see page 38
See page 40 for adding memory if necessary
Play with it yourself to get familiar. TEST IT OUT 
Turn off the beep feature. Its on one of the menus. You can even play prevent defense by going to a dollar store, buying uber-cheapie earbuds, cut off the buds but put in the jack which will actually disable the speaker for additional protection.

Go to Walmart and buy heavy duty velcro.
This is one item: Velcro Heavy-Duty Hook and Loop Fastener VEK90117: Office : Walmart.com
also
Purchase VELCRO Hook and Loop Fasteners, Sticky-Back, for less at Walmart.com. Save money. Live better.
The velcro is usually in the fabric section or the aisle with the fasteners like screws.

Use the velcro to attach the var under her seat UP INSIDE. SECURE IT WELL!!!!!! So well even a big bump wont knock it off. attach one side HD velcro from Walmart to back. USE BIG PIECE
attach other side HD velcro again UP INSIDE car seat. 

ATTACH THE CRAP out of it. It needs to stay put going over big potholes or railroad tracks.
I recommend exporting the sound files to your comp. The recorder is very cumbersome for playback.

Put the second VAR in whatever room she uses to talk in when you are not around. If you are a typical man, use your size advantage to put it someplace she cant reach, even on a chair. Beware spring cleaning season if she does it.

Amazon has a pen VAR that can be placed in a purse or other small place to get remote conversations. Yes the pen works.

Usual warning. If you hear another man and perhaps a little kissing or... STOP Listening and have a trusted friend listen and tell you what went on. Knowing she is a cheat will kill you. Hearing her moan while another man is inside her will murder you to your very soul!!!!!! You are not strong enough to hear that. Dont try it. I know what I am talking about in this.

If you need clean up the recordings get Audacity. Its free from the internet. I have used it on var work for others here to remove things like engine noise. If needed, I have done var work for four men here. RDMU is the only one who has released some of the confidentiality. Read his second thread for my reliability and confidentiality. NEVER GIVE UP YOUR ELECTRONIC EVIDENCE. They were seen by a PI or something NOT your VAR!!

If your wife comes home from an alone time does she immediately change liners, change panties possibly even immediately laundering them?, shower? This can be an after the fact clean up. Amazon sells a semen detection kit called checkmate.

The ezoom GPS has been found to be easy to buy at Radio shack and useful. There is even a locator webpage you can track with.

Look for a burner phone. This is a second phone from a prepay service just used for cheating communications. That is often why wives let the husband "see their phone" The dont use their main phone for cheating purposes.

There is an app out there called teensafe. Its for both Iphone and Android. It monitors texts, GPS and facebook. Needs no jailbreak. Not perfect and delayed but no jailbreak required.

Look for apps on her phone like words with friends. It has a non traceable texting feature.
Here is a list 25 Apps to Help You Cheat On Your Girlfriend | Complex


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Follow weightlifters var advice, plus find out if the OM is married or not.

Do not have sex with her. Tell her you've got a stomache flu, even eat some really nasty beans and pork so you'll fart a lot. Eat a lot of garlic and onions to keep her away.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Follow weightlifters var advice, plus find out if the OM is married or not.
> 
> Do not have sex with her. Tell her you've got a stomache flu, even eat some really nasty beans and pork so you'll fart a lot. Eat a lot of garlic and onions to keep her away.


Oh Shaggy now I have to do this

The Campfire - Blazing Saddles (5/10) Movie CLIP (1974) HD - YouTube


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Chicks dig confident men so please please please never beg or cry for you marriage no matter how hard it is...fake it until you make it!

Once your wrap your head around all of this, my experiences is you have to show your old lady that you can let her go....

Getting her to think twice and second guess her choices is your best approach. Until she does this and commits and verifies no contact with her new guy all is lost. 

You can't compete with that kind of infection the otherman bring into the marriage.

At the end of the day if she thinks you will tolorate this crap you are screwed...she has to see your willingness to let her go....a consequence that she must see no matter how much it sucks to give up your old lady...again she has to see a smile on your face and wishing her the best as you distance your self.

#1 you will not control her
#2 you will take control of what *you* can control and that is no longer sharing your wife.
#3 let her go...it will be up to her to make the choices to keep you around.

What sucks is must of the time they WW think your also seeing someone else so they can justify their the bull crap.

You will get through it, but begging and crying just pushes them away.

Its funny how poeple want what they can't have!

So please give her a taste of her new reality, something tells me she has your number and you ain't going anywere, no matter how she she behaves.


----------



## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

Confront now. Too much at stake.

See an attorney asap. Bring home the paperwork. Call OM and tell him that your W confessed. Tell him you are going to contact hr. Tell him you will consider if he confirms your W story.
Ask him how many times they have slept together. Ask him how long the a has been going on.

Confront your w by saying you have the facts from Om and an attorney. Give her 5 minutes to tell all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

One trick is to put a var in the house. Then in the morning, inform you you know about her outside relationship, and that you won't be home later because your going see they OM and have a chat with him,

She will deny of course, she'll think you can't get to him since he lives out of town. Explain that's what airplanes are for.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Leave and comeback to get the vars of her calling him to warn him,

You might even help it by swiping her cell on the way out, forcing her to use the home phone.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

What kind of BC did you use before trying for child? Can you get on to her phone?

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Only married 2 years. She's cheating already. No kids.

Run. Run, run away fast!

Dont have kids with her. Separate you finances. Remove yourself from any of her debts. Etc...


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Decide what your dealbreakers are.

If you're willing to accept an emotional affair than you could confront now, all you're going to get at the most is the admission of an EA, she won't admit to sex even if it happened, but if you can live with forever not really knowing the truth and you're ok with doing what you can now to bust up the affair, then what do you have to lose?

If it was me, and I know I'd never stay with a woman who had sex with another guy on my watch.. I'd get more evidence first, and if evidence of sex was found, I wouldn't confront at all, I'd just file for divorce and let the court papers do the talking.


----------



## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

OP do my basic intel. IT WONT TAKE LONG IF YOU GET ON IT NOW!

I cant go to best buy for you.


----------



## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

As someone else posted... What are your dealbreakers when it comes to marriage and infidelity? Given what you know now, has she already crossed them?

You should speak to a local lawyer and find out your rights, responsibilities, and options. If you find out enough to tell you that she's crossed over your boundaries, infidelity isn't a factor in many locations as it doesn't affect support or division of property. Your lawyer can give you more details specific to your situation. But if that's the case, the only person you have to prove anything to is yourself. 

Good luck, and hang in there!

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cold_Roses (Oct 2, 2013)

Thank you all for the suggestions and support. 

Weightlifter, looking at the phone records I see they never talk on the phone, just text a lot. So I don't think I need a VAR. And, he doesn't live in this state so putting one in her car won't catch him there unless I know he is coming into town which I would know shortly.

After seeing the number of all the texts and picture messages sent (I dread what they were of), I installed a text message tracker on her phone the night I had my suspicions. The next morning (yesterday) I checked the website her texts are sent to and I saw and read that she was indeed texting a guy and it was lovey dovey talk.

From looking the guy up on facebook, it looks like he has kids but isn't married. I wonder if he's been caught before. He isn't friends with my wife either.

Last night I found more incriminating texts talking about meeting up when he was in town in August but nothing super explicit (e.g. "sex was great").

I'm setting up a marriage counseling session just for my self to talk this out and hope to get this over with soon.

Thanks again.


----------



## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

When you read her messages, does it seem like you have the complete communication picture? She could be using Skype or something similar. She could also have a burner phone for talking. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

You said that she strongly wants to have a baby. Now you can only be "sick" so many times and if you start using protection, I'm going to assume that your wife isn't a stupid woman, she going to know something is wrong.

If you saw the text messages, and they were "Lovey Dovey" in nature, then if it was me, I wouldn't play games. I would let her know that there will be no baby or planning a baby until we get this thing straightened out. I would let her know that until she comes clean and tell me what's going on, there's going to be a huge rift in this marriage and it won't end well. 

She's your wife and she has no business sending improper text messages to another man and there is no excuse for it.

Don't play games with her and let her know that your dead serious about this and that the trust is gone and she's the only one who can do something about it. Let her know, that she's on the clock and time is running out. Do not give her wiggle room and find time to think up a good excuse. There's no reason for you to have sleepless nights and no appetite because she can't behave like a wife should. Let her have the sleepless nights so she can think about what she might lose. Why should you be the one to suffer for it.


----------



## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Just remember to save OFFSITE and two places.

Sounds like you are almost close enuf to a confront. Keep on it to make sure he does not come into town. Couple days may give you enough to figure for sure PA or not.

Crappy part is the confront has to be based entirely on the intercepts so he will lose his intel source once used.


----------



## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Im thinking best confront strategy would be Intel for say 5 days to see if he can prove/disprove it got physical.

Confront then damand poly. I know polygraphs are not are not 100% but the idea is to scare her into a parking lot confession. It goes something like this.

Wife you say it was only internet based yet I know you met him July 25 2013. Fine we will go with that to a polygraph. You may change your answers up to the door of the polygraph but once we step inside your answers are locked.

If it was texting only I will consider R
If it was physical and you admit it now or up to the door of the poly and are willing to do extreme heavy lifting I might consider R
If we go into the poly and I find you are lying to me. Automatic divorce.


----------



## Cold_Roses (Oct 2, 2013)

I just don't know how much longer I can wait. The last 2 days were unbearable. I can't be in the same bed as her. We moved because of her job and I'm still looking for a job so I'm home all day dwelling on this.


----------



## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Take this time to start working on you. Get out and get physical. Running, walking, bike riding, martial arts...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Understood.

Take what you can. Perhaps go to a gym to work out. 

JUST A CAUTION that you only get a go at this ONCE. She will know you are onto her texting and go underground if you dont break her this go around. I know you have not been here long and unfortunately its in the 30+ post private members section but I just dont want you to be another like poster RDMU. 

He did a weak confront and she shot his azz down THEN Made HIM feel like an azz to boot. Yes you have a bit more than he but I just dont want another poor SOB go through what he did. 7 WEEKS of misery. Then again he needed court worthy evidence and you may or may not depending upon state. He is in NC and he needed it. Perhaps you do not as some states it makes no difference. He became a friend of all things but she went underground after the soft confront. He got better then worse then MUCH worse at the very end. He did get his hard confront evidence. He was such a mess, and by that time a friend, I wrote his final confront for him. He broke her in under a minute. She confessed fully and surrendered utterly not even trickle truthing him. They have been in successful R since he decided to give it a go ?Mid? May. Her final hook up was April 13 with a PI waiting. He confronted the following Thursday April 18th after getting back from a business trip.

Note this may or may not be your path. You may not have a PA. shrug Id say 70% chance physical if they got together but HTD's (another poster) wife took about a month after first meeting to go physical

Are you still thinking R? Under what conditions?

Let me help you here.
You may be trying to combine two questions into one. Lets assume it got physical for a moment.

1) Are you a man who can live with the fact another man has been inside your woman?
2) Is she willing to do all that is necessary to foster R such as writing a full timeline, a no contact letter, FULL transparency, answering ALL your questions in as much excruciating detail as YOU deem you need?
You need TWO yesses not ONE!!

There is NO SHAME in aswering NO to question 1. It is entirely DEPENDENT UPON *YOUR* PSYCHOLOGICAL MAKE UP.

Figure out what kind of man you are in the following: A no details man or a man who has to have every position, ejaculation, and moan to process what happened to quiet the wild imagination of mind movies. IE imagining what they did together. Most men are the latter but not an insignificant number are the first.

You are not alone. The TAM Army is behind you. Just realize what I said.


----------



## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

PBear said:


> Take this time to start working on you. Get out and get physical. Running, walking, bike riding, martial arts...
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I like this.


----------



## Working1 (Sep 28, 2013)

Cold_Roses said:


> I just don't know how much longer I can wait. The last 2 days were unbearable. I can't be in the same bed as her. We moved because of her job and I'm still looking for a job so I'm home all day dwelling on this.


Sorry you are in this situation. You will give yourself much more power if you get all the info you can on her and the OM. You should find out if the OM is married, this is very important for you because it can tip the tables if you expose to his spouse.
ALso, don't think they are not talking on the phone, they may be talking on the phone from his work or from his home so you may not be recognizing those phone numbers. You should get a VAR in her car either way, and she also may be talking about the him to a girlfriend and you could pick up info by overhearing these calls.
Good luck.


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Cold_Roses said:


> Weightlifter, looking at the phone records I see they never talk on the phone, just text a lot. So I don't think I need a VAR. And, he doesn't live in this state so putting one in her car won't catch him there unless I know he is coming into town which I would know shortly.


The VAR in the car is to catch her talking on the phone to him. She may well be using a burner phone to make voice calls.

Also, how sure are you she is not having phone conversations with her phone? Have you verified every number? She may well be listing his number as "Jane" in her contacts to hide who it really is. Or the phone might be owned by his company or under his wife's name You have to do a real search on every phone number. Some of the paid services aren't too expensive, and you can get an unlimited number of searches. Or you can pay $1 or $3 per number if there are just a few you don't recognize.


----------



## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Cold roses , 

So sorry you are here . This wont be a fun ride so hang on. I for one still going throught it 2.5 years later, but I'm a very slow painful learner. 

Many people on this site will help so much. I find its worth, its weight in gold. 

I'm just really sorry your selfish ww just doesnt understand what she is doing to you this very moment ! And when she does learns of it , she is going to beg for forgiveness, and then it comes back on us, the bs.... "They do the crime, we pay the price" ... It is sh**ty ride, so hold on! 

~sammy


----------



## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

OP IF you wish, please provide a few examples of their lovey dovey talk. Ive written confront scripts for a number of people. IIRC Im 3 for 4 on my scripts crushing the wife. The one who it didnt work on was basically arguing up was down and on was off. I can give you a rough idea of what you got if you have a list. 

Again only if you wish. just alot of been there done that people here.

PM *IF* you wish


----------

