# Ladies - Husband goes to a Massage Parlour...



## jezza (Jan 12, 2011)

Ladies, I would really appreciate your thoughts on something...please don't shoot me down and please don't bombard me with morals etc! I know what I am talking about below is morally wrong, however we also live in a real world...

I'll set the stage....you are happily married to your husband. The relationship is good and you get on well...you have the same sorts of arguements that all married couples have. Your husband loves you and cherishes you, and you him. Everything outside the bedroom is fine.
However, inside the bedroom things are not so good. You are simply not interested in sex. You do not see it as important...you are happy with holding hands, hugs, cuddles etc. You know that you husband wants to make love to you so you make an extra special effort once a month to let him 'have' you.
For the sake of this thread, please lets forget the 'why' you don't like sex....Everything in the marriage is good except the sex. You just don't do it for whatever reason.

Now.... (and I have my antiflak jacket on!!) - if you found out that your husband went to a massage parlour a couple of times a month....he has a proper massage, the masseuse is topless...he rolls onto his back, she does his front...his balls..he gets hard and she gives him a hand job. A 'happy ending'. Thats it. A simple hand job...no penetration of vagina, mouth etc and no kissing so no 'health issues'. A straight forward massage + hand job.

What would your reaction be...bearing in mind that because you have 'problems' with sex and he is a 'normal' male and needs relief...There is no love at the massage parlour, just simple 'relief'...he could masturbate (and probably does) but its nicer having someone else do it for you!

I'm not looking for justification etc because I will do what I do or don't do...my decision! But I would be interested to hear what the ladies have to say....

In anticipation.....!!!


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## Star (Dec 6, 2009)

What would my reaction be?? Let's put it this way..........It wouldn't be good and I'd doubt you'd go back to that parlour again.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

Star said:


> What would my reaction be?? Let's put it this way..........It wouldn't be good and I'd doubt you'd go back to that parlour again.


i dont think you fit his model of the LD spouse, thats who he is asking. and frankly, i would expect any LD spouse who is not coming close to meeting the intimacy needs of their partner to say they are ok with the massage. if they arent interested in intimacy, why would they care?


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## Star (Dec 6, 2009)

Okey, Jezza is asking for a ladies opinion, he did not ask just for LD ladies to respond and no I don't fit his model of a spouse, however I am with a LD partner so I know what it feels like but I would not go to a parlour for a massage and then a "rub down south" just to get a release and a happy ending, the thought of it is icky but that's just my opinion.


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## Wild1 (Dec 29, 2010)

jezza said:


> The relationship is good and you get on well...you have the same sorts of arguements that all married couples have. Your husband loves you and cherishes you, and you him. Everything outside the bedroom is fine.
> However, inside the bedroom things are not so good. You are simply not interested in sex.





:slap:



Ok... here's a story...

You go to a car dealership and find the most beautiful, sexiest car you have seen in a long time with great lines and gets great gas mileage and is even cheaper than what you were willing to pay. You think --- WOW what a deal! I want that car!

But upon closer inspection of the car, you realize the car has no tires... just sitting there on the rims. You still love the car, but can't help thinking -- somethings missing.

You hunt down the salesman and ask, "hey, what happened to the tires?"

He responds, "Well, we decided that tires will go get worn out and go flat and saggy at some point, so we figured people would want to get thier own tires and just replace them when they want."

You respond "Interesting concept." And you walk away, muttering to yourself, "wow that idiot was going to sell me a car with no tires."



Just a thought.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

not a lady, but...

He could get the same thing from you if you were even a little interested. But if you can't do that for him twice a month, why not get it elsewhere???

BUT... it isn't going to stop there. My wife's cousin did massages for a while. yeah, she made a few extra bucks giving a happy ending. then she realized she could make a few more extra bucks doing oral. then it was full sex. A hand job will only be satisfying for so long.


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## jezza (Jan 12, 2011)

Wild1....maybe your humour is too sharp for me or maybe because its late Friday afternoon and the week is nearly over! Not sure I get the comparison!

Star...maybe I should have been clearer.... It is a biological fact that men need to ejaculate on a regular basis...whether its done as a result of intimate love making with his spouse, by his own hand or by the hand of A. N. Other. If for whatever reason his spouse will not 'participate' the husband has four choices;

1) leave his wife 
2) masturbate
3) have someone else masturbate him
4) be celibate

No or irregular ejaculations can lead to prostate problems (fact). So the real choices are 2 and 3.

I think - but then I fully accept that I am a male in a sexless marriage so might (!!) be biased that a wife has to accept that if she won't involve herself sexually with her husband, he WILL sooner or later seek sexual relief elsewhere. I am not talking about finding love eslewhere or leaving the marriage...


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## Wild1 (Dec 29, 2010)

jezza said:


> It is a biological fact that men need to ejaculate on a regular basis...whether its done as a result of intimate love making with his spouse, by his own hand or by the hand of A. N. Other.



You missed one. Nature allows men to also naturally ejaculate through what is termed "wet dreams" if it fills up too much.












jezza said:


> I think - but then I fully accept that I am a male in a sexless marriage so might (!!) be biased that a wife has to accept that if she won't involve herself sexually with her husband, he WILL sooner or later seek sexual relief elsewhere.




See, now to most men, this would be insulting. Honestly, most men - contracry to popular belief (and you could actually read it here on how they absolutely love their wives and would do anything for them) most men are actually looking for that emotional attachment that allows them to be accepted and adored, especially by the one they have dedicated their love too.

Think about it - most people who get married take vows and only ONE of those vows forbid something (forsaking all others)... the rest are to do something (like love, cherish, etc...). There is a reason for that. It's because in time, when a man is put in a situation to choose to form an emotional attachment to someone or something that gives him great pleasure or not, they will generally choose to logically say to themselves, "well, what do I need you for then?" And normally in more than the sex acts.

p.s. --> Ever wonder why when you walk into any car dealership, there are no cars for sale that have no tires, even though you could get your own tires pretty cheaply compared to the cost of the whole car?


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Not a woman - but - there is still a risk of disease. Kind of weird to think some other guy was just laying there 20 minutes ago - getting the same happy ending you're asking for.

Its also illegal. Paying a woman for a hand job is soliciting a prostitute. Those places will get raided from time to time. I live in a medium sized town and saw an article about one here getting raided around a year ago.

Pornography and strip clubs are legal and don't 'technically' break your wedding vows.

I think you have alternatives.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

My only problem is that you say the only problem is in the bedroom. Its not. There is a huge problem in the foundation of your marriage if your spouse can not put your needs as a priority, no matter what those needs are. That shows a lack of understanding, and in my own personal opinion a lack of respect to adamantly refuse to acknowledge your spouses needs. 

On the other side, no I do not think its okay to use a happy ending as a place of relief unless it is discussed with the spouse and approved, and the consequences of being caught are also discussed.


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## jezza (Jan 12, 2011)

All noted! Where I live it isnt an offence. However I accept the moral etc 'offences'....

Interesting reading...looking forward to reading more!!


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

For me? It's your attitude. If you think it is perfectly okay to pay another human being for a sex act, that says an awful lot to me and is the exact opposite of sexy. Nevermind that you are contributing to the sex trade, as many of those girls are trafficked, at least here in the States. Yuck, just yuck.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

nikon said:


> Well said Brennan! Men are such selfish pigs. All they think about it their release. What about those exploited girls? Do you have daughters? Or sisters? How would you feel if someone raped you and forced you into sexual acts with strange horny men? Paying for sex is just wrong. Get it from your wife or get it from someone for free. Sex is supposed to be a free enjoyable thing for both people involved! How can you even enjoy getting a happy ending from some poor girl who is just trying to survive and feels absolutely disgusted when they look at you! I really don't see a reason why your wife can't give you such a hand massage at least twice a week? It's selfish of her that she doesn't care about your needs and selfish of you to exploit other human beings for your sexual pleasures! Yuk!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well I wouldn't say men are such selfish pigs as I know PLENTY that are not. I will say though that perhaps his wife is turned off by his attitude, I know I am. 
Not sure where this poster lives but where I live these places are raided all the time and most of these girls have been sold in to this. 
Just because she smiles at you and makes you feel special doesn't mean she is enjoying it. She is being watched and knows if she doesn't act accordingly, she will be beaten or worse. It is modern day slavery and so so unsexy.


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## Janie (Apr 10, 2010)

I think it is the wrong thing to do, but for a different reason...

Communication is the key. If you have clearly communicated your sexual needs to your wife and she dismisses your need, the next conversation to have is to let her know you will not live your life celibate (or near-celibate). But, it needs to be discussed with her first or it is dishonest and sneaky.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

Star said:


> Okey, Jezza is asking for a ladies opinion, he did not ask just for LD ladies to respond and no I don't fit his model of a spouse, however I am with a LD partner so I know what it feels like but I would not go to a parlour for a massage and then a "rub down south" just to get a release and a happy ending, the thought of it is icky but that's just my opinion.


he clearly says in his scenario that "you are a woman who is not interested in sex" while everything else is good. i think he was being quite specific about the situation, as in a woman being completely happy with her marriage but not interested in sex. the thread has taken a few twists that are kind of off track but thats normal.

given that scenarion, the man either finds it elsewhere or continues to pour his heart into changing the other person. that doesnt yield good results, or gets divorced


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

okeydokie said:


> he clearly says in his scenario that "you are a woman who is not interested in sex" while everything else is good. i think he was being quite specific about the situation, as in a woman being completely happy with her marriage but not interested in sex. the thread has taken a few twists that are kind of off track but thats normal.
> 
> given that scenarion, the man either finds it elsewhere or continues to pour his heart into changing the other person. that doesnt yield good results, or gets divorced


The whole everything in the marriage is perfect but she doesn't want sex is a myth. If the relationship is "perfect" she would be wanting sex as often as he does. Women don't loose their sex drives, they loose it with their husbands for various reasons. He is missing the larger issue.
You apparently did too. He asked for a woman's opinion about him going to a massage parlour. Many of us stated how we felt about it and his attitude about it. It wasn't off track at all.


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## JrsMrs (Dec 27, 2010)

A few thoughts...
Being HD myself, of course it is easy for me to say that if it took so little to please my spouse as jerk him off a couple times a month, I would have no trouble doing that, even if I wasn't interested in sex myself. That said, in my experience, most LD spouses are not of the same mindset, and seem to think that sexuality is a weakness of some sort that should be overcome and would probably find it disgusting that the guy was so desperate for a wank that he'd go anywhere for it.
At the same time, from personal experience and from what I've read here on the boards, having a completely impersonal purely sexual relationship with someone is dissatisfying. A lack of sex in a marriage is more than a lack of orgasms at another person's hands. It is feeling undesired, feeling that your needs are unimportant to your spouse, feeling frustrated that your marriage is not everything you want it to be. 
The whole tangle of emotion that comes from having a spouse who is not sexually interested in you is really much more complex that simply saying 'we don't have enough sex.' So I think even if on paper, that plan might work out, in reality I really don't think it will be satisfactory to either spouse. Sex carries much more with it than just the act, so I really don't think you can boil it down to the point of saying 'well, I'm getting 90% of what I want from this marriage, I will just go out for the other 10%.' It's not the same as if, say, one spouse just LOVES spaghetti and would love to have it for dinner at least a few times a week. The other spouse really hates spaghetti, maybe could stand cooking it once a month at most. So the first spouse decides, hey, that's ok, whenever I'm craving a nice big bowl of pasta, I'll just head out to my favorite restaurant, and you can stay home and eat your chicken and then we're both happy. 
Unfortunately, I just don't think that's how we're wired as humans, and speaking as a HD spouse, I know that I would not find that fulfilling. Yes, you may be getting all the orgasms you want, but you are still missing the rest of that puzzle. I think the natural thing is to want more, to want a spouse that WANTS to do those things with you, and for you, and wants to be pleased in return. A glorified prostitute (really, is it even glorified?) isn't going to make you feel desirable to your spouse, isn't going to make you feel like you have the life you really want, which includes a great sexual and romantic relationship with your partner. I think it's the same as when a person cheats (and I do have personal experience with this)- yes there is a part that feels good about it, but another part that just reminds you of all the stuff that's missing at home. 
Like I said, I really don't believe that we humans are wired to have sex like robots with no feeling or emotion attached. There are always factors such as attraction, desire, lust, feeling desired and wanted and important that come along with that.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

JrsMrs said:


> A few thoughts...
> Being HD myself, of course it is easy for me to say that if it took so little to please my spouse as jerk him off a couple times a month, I would have no trouble doing that, even if I wasn't interested in sex myself. That said, in my experience, most LD spouses are not of the same mindset, and seem to think that sexuality is a weakness of some sort that should be overcome and would probably find it disgusting that the guy was so desperate for a wank that he'd go anywhere for it.
> At the same time, from personal experience and from what I've read here on the boards, having a completely impersonal purely sexual relationship with someone is dissatisfying. A lack of sex in a marriage is more than a lack of orgasms at another person's hands. It is feeling undesired, feeling that your needs are unimportant to your spouse, feeling frustrated that your marriage is not everything you want it to be.
> The whole tangle of emotion that comes from having a spouse who is not sexually interested in you is really much more complex that simply saying 'we don't have enough sex.' So I think even if on paper, that plan might work out, in reality I really don't think it will be satisfactory to either spouse. Sex carries much more with it than just the act, so I really don't think you can boil it down to the point of saying 'well, I'm getting 90% of what I want from this marriage, I will just go out for the other 10%.' It's not the same as if, say, one spouse just LOVES spaghetti and would love to have it for dinner at least a few times a week. The other spouse really hates spaghetti, maybe could stand cooking it once a month at most. So the first spouse decides, hey, that's ok, whenever I'm craving a nice big bowl of pasta, I'll just head out to my favorite restaurant, and you can stay home and eat your chicken and then we're both happy.
> ...


Very well said. I will take it a bit further though. You are paying another person to make yourself feel better. How is this not a double rejection? Does she desire, lust, want you? Isn't THAT what you are looking for?


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

jezza said:


> . If for whatever reason his spouse will not 'participate' the husband has four choices;
> 
> 1) leave his wife
> 2) masturbate
> ...


Choice #5... The husband can figure out what he has done to cause his wife to become less sexual, and work on those things.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

Brennan said:


> The whole everything in the marriage is perfect but she doesn't want sex is a myth. If the relationship is "perfect" she would be wanting sex as often as he does. Women don't loose their sex drives, they loose it with their husbands for various reasons. He is missing the larger issue.
> You apparently did too. He asked for a woman's opinion about him going to a massage parlour. Many of us stated how we felt about it and his attitude about it. It wasn't off track at all.


is it ever possible that the LD spouse, whether it be a man or a woman, have any responsibility to work on fixing things? i could not disagree more that when someone loses their drive its because of the other person. maybe sometimes, but not all the time.

and he gave us a very specific set of circumstances about what the massage parlour visit was for, not just a general hey honey, im heading to the massage parlour, ill be back later.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Hicks said:


> Choice #5... The husband can figure out what he has done to cause his wife to become less sexual, and work on those things.


I think you nailed it. Like I wrote, a woman doesn't loose interest in sex, she looses interest in sex with you. For every husband out there who thinks his wife doesn't like sex, that wife likes sex plenty. She thinks about it, masturbates to it, has dreams about it. It's just not about you. Woman are highly sexual. Get her mind back to you.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

Brennan said:


> I think you nailed it. Like I wrote, a woman doesn't loose interest in sex, she looses interest in sex with you. For every husband out there who thinks his wife doesn't like sex, that wife likes sex plenty. She thinks about it, masturbates to it, has dreams about it. It's just not about you. Woman are highly sexual. Get her mind back to you.


is this statement true in reverse? same advice to sex starved wives?


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

okeydokie said:


> is it ever possible that the LD spouse, whether it be a man or a woman, have any responsibility to work on fixing things? i could not disagree more that when someone loses their drive its because of the other person. maybe sometimes, but not all the time.
> 
> and he gave us a very specific set of circumstances about what the massage parlour visit was for, not just a general hey honey, im heading to the massage parlour, ill be back later.


Yes, he was specific about why he goes to those places. I was specific about why I thought it was wrong. It doesn't matter if his wife knows or doesn't know, she still doesn't want him touching her. Why? Trust me, it's not her sex drive, it's him. 
For every woman out there who "doesn't have any sex drive", that same woman would be butt naked in a New York second if Johnny Depp/007/Christain Bale wanted to bang them. It isn't about her drive, it's about what he brings to the bedroom. The same old same old becomes just old.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

There are relationships where the HD (usually husband) has done all they can to try to get their LD (usually wife) to desire them and care about their needs. 

For some, maybe the hand job from a stranger at a masseuse parlour is enough. I know for me, it wouldn't be. 

I think if you are in a relationship where your only option for sex is to go outside your marriage, then you should leave the marriage. You only live once!!!! Leave and hopefully you can find someone that will care about you.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

okeydokie said:


> is this statement true in reverse? same advice to sex starved wives?


Negative. In that case we're still at fault ... 

Remaining married to a woman whom you claim you love, but won't have sex with you ... and relegating the extent of your sex life to 'happy endings' is pathetic. End of story.

There ... now nobody will be satisfied with my response.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

okeydokie said:


> is this statement true in reverse? same advice to sex starved wives?


Yes! Absolutely. How many times have you heard women here (me included) talking about our husbands low sex drive? It is rarely low but rather that they masturbate to porn or are no longer attracted to their wives.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Brennan said:


> It is rarely low but rather that they masturbate to porn or are no longer attracted to their wives.


I rest my case. :moon:


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

I'm thinking this is pretty simple: dedicate yourself to fulfilling his desire for happy endings. Not only will you save money and improve your marriage, your hands will be well-moisturized and kissably-soft. Heck, hit him up for a tip afterwards. Everyone's happy, then.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

Deejo said:


> Negative. In that case we're still at fault ...
> 
> Remaining married to a woman whom you claim you love, but won't have sex with you ... and relegating the extent of your sex life to 'happy endings' is pathetic. End of story.
> 
> There ... now nobody will be satisfied with my response.


oh i completely agree and i wouldnt personally ever do it. but that was the scenario we were given by the OP. i would leave if completely cut off.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Deejo said:


> Negative. In that case we're still at fault ...
> 
> Remaining married to a woman whom you claim you love, but won't have sex with you ... and relegating the extent of your sex life to 'happy endings' is pathetic. End of story.
> 
> There ... now nobody will be satisfied with my response.


Going to paid/trafficked women isn't a "sex life". If that's his "go to", I wouldn't be turned on either. I don't doubt his attitude oozes in to his married life. It isn't sexy to say the very least.


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## bluesky (Jan 29, 2011)

> You missed one. Nature allows men to also naturally ejaculate through what is termed "wet dreams" if it fills up too much.


Not true. I have NEVER had a wet dream in my life, and I have a high sex drive.

I ventured into a few massage parlours after she had an affair.
I NEVER even considered it before.

The few times I went, the experience was good. Not because of the happy ending...that was just icing on the cake.

The massage was very nurturing...and they flatter you while massaging.

Things like "you are so strong....such big muscles......you are so handsome".

I know its all bull****, but its nice to hear that while being nude.

It was VERY rare that I ever heard flattery on my physique, so it was new and nice to hear.

I couldn't IMAGINE getting a full massage, with flattery along the way from my cheating STBX.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

Brennan said:


> Going to paid/trafficked women isn't a "sex life". If that's his "go to", I wouldn't be turned on either. I don't doubt his attitude oozes in to his married life. It isn't sexy to say the very least.


i dont think any of us can judge the OP based on what he is asking. blaming him for all his marriage intimacy problems may be a stretch. could be he is just supremely frustrated by a situation that he is realizing isnt going to get better no matter what he does.


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## bluesky (Jan 29, 2011)

Sorry, I'm a guy.
Hope you did not mind me responding.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

okeydokie said:


> is it ever possible that the LD spouse, whether it be a man or a woman, have any responsibility to work on fixing things? i could not disagree more that when someone loses their drive its because of the other person. maybe sometimes, but not all the time.


The OP's wife is a safe. At one point in time he used to have the key to it. He lost the key. You are right, he can blame the safe for staying closed, wait around for it to open miraculously, or.... He can look around for the key.


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

Hicks said:


> The OP's wife is a safe. At one point in time he used to have the key to it. He lost the key. You are right, he can blame the safe for staying closed, wait around for it to open miraculously, or.... He can look around for the key.



Or he might just find another box that's easier to open to keep his penis in. A safe you can't open is . . . useless.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

okeydokie said:


> i dont think any of us can judge the OP based on what he is asking. blaming him for all his marriage intimacy problems may be a stretch. could be he is just supremely frustrated by a situation that he is realizing isnt going to get better no matter what he does.


I am judging based on what happens at these places where I live. It is modern day slavery and I will never be okay with it.
If he needs relief and his wife doesn't provide it, he has plenty of options. Contributing to the sex trade should not be one of them. 
I am not blaming him for all the intimacy problems. She has a voice and can communicate with him at any moment. She chooses not to. It is toxic.
Like I said though, when a woman doesn't want sex for an extended period of time, baring medical issues, it is him. He isn't "doing it" for her anymore.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

IanIronwood said:


> Or he might just find another box that's easier to open to keep his penis in. A safe you can't open is . . . useless.


He's already doing that. Where's it getting him? Sure, he can put his penis in a "box" (wow, btw) or he could work on his game and make certain his wife's fantasies turn back to him. Just a thought.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

Brennan said:


> Yes! Absolutely. How many times have you heard women here (me included) talking about our husbands low sex drive? It is rarely low but rather that they masturbate to porn or are no longer attracted to their wives.


 Not in my case at all. He is simply okay with once a week, and I am not. Is he attracted? He** yeah. Does he watch porn, probably sometimes. He is 8 years older, slowing down, and I am picking up. Different timing LOL. I do think that there are some people who just don't want to have sex. I have met a few that are exactly that way.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

IanIronwood said:


> Or he might just find another box that's easier to open to keep his penis in. A safe you can't open is . . . useless.


Well, that is an option... Divorce.
Infidelity, prostitutes are just incredibly wrong on many levels as there are always other individuals involved.

The other thing is, just finding a new safe does not cure him of the basic problem... he will lose that key too.


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

Brennan said:


> I am judging based on what happens at these places where I live. It is modern day slavery and I will never be okay with it.
> If he needs relief and his wife doesn't provide it, he has plenty of options. Contributing to the sex trade should not be one of them.
> I am not blaming him for all the intimacy problems. She has a voice and can communicate with him at any moment. She chooses not to. It is toxic.
> Like I said though, when a woman doesn't want sex for an extended period of time, baring medical issues, it is him. He isn't "doing it" for her anymore.


It's not always slavery. I know several very happy independent contractors who have other career options, but choose sex work because they have a vocation for it. Admittedly none of these ladies would work at a "massage parlor" . . . 

And as a member of the "sex trade", I encourage contributions!


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## Well_Spouse (Feb 2, 2011)

If it's negotiated in advance, sure. In rare cases where your spouse will never leave their hospital bed, ok. 

Otherwise it seems that one party is claiming a right to breach the contract based upon claim that their spouse is essentially in breach. Which to me means you don't have a contract at all and are essentially Divorced no matter what you call it. 

I think you need to either renegotiate the terms of the contract or nullify it. Assuming like most of us you never discussed upfront what is expected normally and in the case of illness/injury mental and/or physical.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

Well_Spouse said:


> If it's negotiated in advance, sure. In rare cases where your spouse will never leave their hospital bed, ok.
> 
> Otherwise it seems that one party is claiming a right to breach the contract based upon claim that their spouse is essentially in breach. Which to me means you don't have a contract at all and are essentially Divorced no matter what you call it.
> 
> I think you need to either renegotiate the terms of the contract or nullify it. Assuming like most of us you never discussed upfront what is expected normally and in the case of illness/injury mental and/or physical.


are you an attorney or did you stay at a holiday inn express last night?


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

IanIronwood said:


> It's not always slavery. I know several very happy independent contractors who have other career options, but choose sex work because they have a vocation for it. Admittedly none of these ladies would work at a "massage parlor" . . .
> 
> And as a member of the "sex trade", I encourage contributions!


Who the heck has a "vocation" in sex work? 
I am not talking about women who work on their own accord. I am talking about massage parlours specifically. The amount of trafficked women there is staggering. In Houston (my temporary home), just about every raid is young girls who are sold in to this. $30k is what was paid for their body and they were shipped here. They have to "pay it off" but they never will be able to. Ever. Food, shelter (barely), shampoo, makeup, toilet paper and other hygiene products are added to her bill at double or sometimes triple the amount. She will never be able to pay it off, ever. But men still go there and think they are really in to these guys. It is disgusting and I will never stop voicing my opinion about it, ever.


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## IanIronwood (Jan 7, 2011)

Brennan said:


> Who the heck has a "vocation" in sex work?
> I am not talking about women who work on their own accord. I am talking about massage parlours specifically. The amount of trafficked women there is staggering. In Houston (my temporary home), just about every raid is young girls who are sold in to this. $30k is what was paid for their body and they were shipped here. They have to "pay it off" but they never will be able to. Ever. Food, shelter (barely), shampoo, makeup, toilet paper and other hygiene products are added to her bill at double or sometimes triple the amount. She will never be able to pay it off, ever. But men still go there and think they are really in to these guys. It is disgusting and I will never stop voicing my opinion about it, ever.


I'm no fan of sex trafficking -- I've actually worked with several institutions within the Adult industry to educate and fund-raise on behalf of those poor girls. Unfortunately, the lack of legalized and regulated prostitution makes such institutions operate in the shadows so much that they escape even cursory inspections, until the cops bust down the door and arrest everyone, girls included. Nasty business, that, and a blemish to the honest independent operators who truly love their work. And that's what I call a vocation for sex work. I have it myself, although not in the performance end. Some people just would rather make their living by sex because they're good at it, enjoy it, and prefer it to other careers. It ain't for everyone, but for a few it's as fulfilling as any professional endeavor.


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## tjohnson (Mar 10, 2010)

First of all, you can't ask women to comment on Happy endings, and have them not comment on the morality piece. It is like putting a juicy steak bone in front of a dog and asing him not to eat it. Not to degregate women but, the only analogy i could think of. 

I am a guy and would not think any women on any level would be ok with a hubby getting ha happy ending regarless of how sexually uninterested they may be or how much she feels she is neglecting him in this department. I think you would have a better chance of respecting your needs and simply buy you some porn, tissues and regularly scheduled privacy and said "your on your own". Like the joke "What did you say to your wife the before the last time you had sex?...honey can you shut the door please? LOL This would be better than what are asking permission for going to a prostitute (regardless of how they please you providing sex for money is prostitution. If you want to get technical in some states lap dances can be loosely considered prostitution...OK i digress, I mean really, happy endings if you think about it have many landmines.... you could gt seen by friends there is a huge ick factor....

I feel your pain though. I don't agree with the notion that all men are someohow the cause of this lack of interst. I think that many women lose interest in sex without any real "fault" of the spous" (not to say that there are not allot of clueless men that have been the cause of their wives "falling out of love") I trully believe some women like sex less than others, or can lose interest durring certain times. have dated women who after a while sex became unimportant then were so hurt when it was over and did not want it to end. We would get back together as they said things would change and I would find myself in the same situation that the OP is in. There is a tendancy to think everyone is like ourselves. We have to accept that people are different and/or that they change. I used to love alot of things that are no longer important to me. Fortunately, those are not things that cause friction with my wife. 

I think people have different sex drives or interest in sex (for men and women). My wife LOVES sex. But her love of it is the way i might love skiing or golfing. I love to do it and enjoy it but, i don't get grumpy, sore balls or feel deprived when i don't do these things for a few days, weeks or months. My wife has no real "drive" for the most part except durring certain monthly or when situational issues arrise that make her horny. On the other hand I (like many men) have a jism clock. I practically know at any moment how long it has been since my last release. I have never had a wet dream and don't agree for most of us that serves as a satisfactory "release valve for us". I will say though even if my wife is not in the mood if she knows i am needy in that way she will give me or BJ. It is not to the frequency I might like but, I have learned to live with it. I don't think think that she is witholding sex because of something i am doing wrong or because somehow she is not attracted to me. I think the bottom line is that she wants to please me when i ask. 

I find it intersting though how many women (not all) that assume that the lack of interst somehow is the man's fault that they simply have lost that feeling and no longer think that sex should be a part of the equasion. 

That said why don't the women then leave these men. Instead they maintain to the outside world that all is OK somehow. If that is the case should the simply acnowledge that they no longer love them and leave or at the very least go to counseling or whatever. I am curious if the OP feels she is really giving him some sort of (consolation/pity sex) or if she trully enjoys sex. When advances are made and declined what does she do.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

Star said:


> Either way Okey, I wouldn't put up with my H getting wacked off by some tart in a parlour
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


yeah i understand that, but would you be suprised if he did IF you had completely cut him off from sex (assuming he was a husband who wanted it)


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

You know. . .this reminds of a double standard.

Anyone ever see the movie "The Road to Wellville?" It was awful, LOL. . .you aren't missing much. It was a commentary on alternative and mainstream medicine.

Anyway, I think the main character, Bridget Fonda, ends up going to a doctor her "hysteria." Back in the 1800's, early 1900's, the treatment for female "hysteria" was for the medical doctor to massage the clitoris.

Now, mind you, the female orgasm, wasn't discovered until 1960, LOL. It was a very boring procedure for the medical doctor ( the doctor in this film is getting off on it tho. . .which was bad writing IMO ) but apparently the women found some relief for their "hysteria" from having the procedure done. Apparently, husbands funded this medical procedure because of the change in attitude and demeanor of their wives.

THe commentary was medicine at all historical times has quackery going on. We will look back one day and say, "What the heck? We were tying tubes for birth control?" or something therein.

I am sure a handjob must be boring. Heck, giving a massage to the shoulders ain't a riproaring evening at the movies.

I think it's cultural; I think in other countries it would be accepted for the male to go this done and not have it be about feelings and sex and all that. But in America, our culture would say no.

Well anyway, I'm going to look into adding this to my practice. What do you think my local board of examiners would say?  "Relief from Female Hysteria here. In 15 minutes or less." "$50 special for month of February." 

Judging from many on the forum, it's time to bring this procedure back


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Scannerguard said:


> You know. . .this reminds of a double standard.
> 
> Anyone ever see the movie "The Road to Wellville?" It was awful, LOL. . .you aren't missing much. It was a commentary on alternative and mainstream medicine.
> 
> ...


Okay, I just shot Diet Coke out my nose. :rofl::rofl::rofl:
You talking about J.R. Kellogg and his practices surrounding "hysteria". 
If you remember that movie, those women went to that doctor nearly everyday due to "hysteria" and their husbands were none the wiser. 
Now then, if their husbands were making them feel that way, they wouldn't need the good doctor. 
As for your February special, I doubt Jersey would allow for you to get a SOB license just for one month.  Besides, it's still prostitution regardless and illegal.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

mommy22 said:


> Okay, I retract my other post. I assumed you were a woman until I went back and read previous posts. I'm going to be brutally honest... The point of your post seems to be that you're looking for justification from other posters because you aren't getting what you want at home. I agree, your wife should make herself available. But you don't have a right to go to a massage parlor. It's cheating. Doesn't matter if you're emotionally involved or not. It doesn't matter if you're having penetration or not. It's not your wife and she's getting you off. I addressed my other post to her because I thought it was a woman asking. I try to steer clear of double standards as you can see by my previous post. I wouldn't suggest either of you have justifiable behavior.
> 
> You pretty much posted saying you didn't want criticism. So, my understanding is you only wanted to hear from people who will make you feel okay about it.
> 
> That said, I don't want to seem indifferent to your plight. I imagine it must be very difficult. But there's a much better solution than your current choice-- which isn't an acceptable choice. You should seek counseling.


Well said. In essence, he said his mind was made up. So why ask for advice from others then? Notice he didn't ask for advice on how to get his wife's interest back? Hmmm. Odd.


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## jezza (Jan 12, 2011)

I never expected to get so many replies! I am also alittle bit surprised at the overall reaction.
Firstly, maybe I shouldn't have used the term 'massage parlour' because it conjures up images of a brothel. 
Throughout the world, including the US, there are beauty salons in respectable malls that offer pedicures, manicures, facials etc and massages.
I am sure that there are males out there who have gone for a perfectly 'normal' massage...its been done by an attractive masseuse...because he is a perfectly normal male he has got an erection and the masseuse has seen it and offered to do something about it.
It happened to me, once when I was in my mid 20's (am 45 now).

Alot of 'posters' are blaming the reason for a sexless marriage at my and 'the husbands' feet. We have 'lost the key', we are the reason our wives have gone off sex... Whilst that might well be true in 50% of cases it certainly isn't in the other 50% (I'm being fair).
There are many men out there who are married to women who are simply not interested in sex (just as there are men who aren't interested in sex - read the threads)...they just do not regard sex as important in a marriage and often resent their 'normal' husbands asking for it or trying to initiate it. These wives fail to understand that sex is an integral part of a marriage...it bonds you.
One of the posters said that her libido is alot lower that her husbands but that she accepts and respects his needs therefore makes an effort and more often than not actually really enjoys it. 
It seems to me that women have to make more of an effort to be interested in sex and to get into it...once they make the effort they really enjoy it. Its that initial effort that is the 'problem'.
I fully accept though that not all women are the same, and that there are also men who arent really interested in sex....though biologically we are wired to ensure our genes continue.

I am in a sexless marriage. Both my wife and I are going through counselling. My wife has never had a high libido. Before our first child was born 11 years ago we had sex maybe twice a week - I would have liked it more (of course!) but twice a week was good. After our first was born there was no sex (as happens between probably 90% of couples with a new baby) in the first 6months...then it was probably twice a month for the next 2 years until we decided to try for another child then it was almost once a day!
Child no 2 arrived...no sex (which I fully appreciate...new babies = lots of work! More so for the mother than the father - we dont produce milk..yet!!). There was the usual abstinence during the first 6 months after the birth which became 12, 14 months etc. 
I was trying to do as much as I could to take the pressure off my wife...to help more, to do the 3am feeds etc etc whilst also being the sole bread winner in the house and having to work shifts over a 24 hour period. My job was stressful and often dangerous...when I get home after a shift I also needed down time.
I tried talking to my wife about our sex life – she accepted and realised we had a problem but refused to talk about it further. She buried her head in the sand. The outward impression was that everything was fine...husband in a respected job, 2.2 children, dog, two cars etc...you get the drift.
Fast forward 10 years....wife still not interested in sex, and isn’t interested in trying to be interested in sex. Hence the counselling... which I am so hoping will help her to understand that sex is a thing to be enjoyed with someone you love and want to bond with, and that it will help me do 'my' bit... I can light the fire but the fire has to want to burn... In the meantime I still have a sex drive and am producing sperm etc.
Like an earlier 'poster', I have never had a wet dream either!
I had a couple of recent prostate ‘scares’...the consultant explained the importance of eating fruit, exercise, regular ejaculations etc to both of us. He also explained that males generally lose the natural ability to release the pressure (wet dreams) in their early 20's.
It was a bit of an eye opener for her...she accepted she had a problem and made an appointment to go and see a ‘lady’ doctor....she went, had hormone etc tests done = normal. The doc called her back to discuss ways of maybe increasing her libido etc...my wife cancelled the appointment and never went back. For some reason she has a block with sex...she knows it but doesn’t want to do anything about it.
It isn’t a diabetics fault their pancreas doesn’t produce insulin...so they have to (not all of them) inject insulin.
There are women who just aren’t interested in sex...its not their ‘fault’ its just the way they are or have become (like a diabetic). There are ‘medicines’ that will help increase their libido...or they make the effort to let their husbands ‘turn them on’ and the result is that they will start to feel horny. But, they have to get past first base and that takes effort...
I love my wife and she loves me, we both love our children. Everything outside the bedroom is fine. If I walk away from the marriage because my wife isn’t interested in sex, I will ruin a family....we would get joint custody of the children...the effect on our children at this age would be devastating. If they were 18 then it would be different. I am not prepared to do that at this stage.
I know this post is long winded...Although none of you ‘know’ me, I certainly don’t want to be labelled as a philanderer! I am simply a ‘normal’ guy with normal needs married to a lovely lady who simply has big hang ups about sex and is maybe frightened to actually confront her problem and deal with it because having a loving, fulfilling and bonding sex life with me falls out of her comfort zone...

However, I am still me with my ‘needs’....


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## jezza (Jan 12, 2011)

Gosh! Sorry! The above really is a bit long! Hope you didnt fall asleep reading it! Still, I wanted to write it.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Brennan,

Well, there was actually no reason for the men to be wiser that a doctor was doing this - that was point.

It was like touching, I don't know, a pair of tonsils or something to them (well, I suppose the vagina still had an allure) but the female didn't even THINK she was going to have a Big O. The doctor wasnt thinking it. The doctor was thinking about how to not get an arm cramp. He just reached down her britches and massaged. When the overwhelming shuddering pleasure was coming, well. . .women didn't ever cum. . .remember?. . .only men did that. . .can you imagine really not knowing what was happening to you?

So, the doctor was sitting there, hum, ho, hum, dee, dum, massaging away with some lubricant, thinking, "Gee, my 3:00 is going to be pissed I am running late." while the lady is laying there trying to get off, not knowing what getting off was!!!!

But needing curing of her hysteria because she was a regular b-i-t-c-h around the house.

But yes, had their husbands knew about this and the sexual framework in which an female orgasm occurs. . .they surely would have protested.

I am also reminded of an Ally McBeal episode where she has the Big O at a chiropractor's office with a vibrating table and she's fighting with her boyfriend telling him, "I'll see what mechanical equipment I want to see, darn it!!!" when he gets jealous and forbids her to go back to that chiropractor.

Ridiculous but along the same lines of this thread.

We are just now starting to come around as a culture stating sex is necessary, esp. for male health. In Far East civilzations, this was a given among the healing community. Dr. Oz lists "Monogamous Sex - 2-3x/week" for anti-aging.

I remember my profession being up in arms about the way they portrayed the ridiculous chiropractor in that episode. (he put her face down on the vibrating table and then ground his chin into her shoulder, lol). The ACA wrote all kinds of letters - lol. . .too uptight.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Gee. . .that's my 3:00. . .I'll be back in 15 minutes. . .Mrs. Bush is always on time.

God bless her soul.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Jezza,
I have been in your shoes. My back story is no different than yours including all the kids and wife declaring she was no longer sexual. For years I felt she needs tor realize how important this is to me and her marriage. I contenplated cheating, divorce etc on a daily basis. But, in trying to fix it I realized I was making no effort to bring out her sexual feelings to me. I had the personal attitude that I have a good job and we have nice home and I have done the "man's" part of the equation and now she need's to do the woman's part. I have learned that this alone does not draw out any sexuality. Counseling her into a sense of obligation on the part of the wife does not draw out any sexuality. it takes daily, conscious action on your part to draw out her sexuality. And if she is not sexual it means you are not taking the proper actions to draw our her sexuality. This applies to 100% of women who claim the are not sexual.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

Hicks said:


> Jezza,
> I have been in your shoes. My back story is no different than yours including all the kids and wife declaring she was no longer sexual. For years I felt she needs tor realize how important this is to me and her marriage. I contenplated cheating, divorce etc on a daily basis. But, in trying to fix it I realized I was making no effort to bring out her sexual feelings to me. I had the personal attitude that I have a good job and we have nice home and I have done the "man's" part of the equation and now she need's to do the woman's part. I have learned that this alone does not draw out any sexuality. Counseling her into a sense of obligation on the part of the wife does not draw out any sexuality. it takes daily, conscious action on your part to draw out her sexuality. And if she is not sexual it means you are not taking the proper actions to draw our her sexuality. This applies to 100% of women who claim the are not sexual.


thats nice, and makes some sense. but we arent talking about an organism that cannot think, reason and deduce, a woman has a brain, in most cases .

what is the LD wifes contribution to this? sittin idle while you do all the work and then finally giving in to all of your hard work and rewarding you with some? she knows she isnt trying to provide for your needs, she is making a caculated decision not to.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

Scannerguard said:


> Brennan,
> 
> Well, there was actually no reason for the men to be wiser that a doctor was doing this - that was point.


and her response was "that if their husbands were making feel like that at home, there would be no reason for them to see the doctor"

irony indeed


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

okeydokie said:


> thats nice, and makes some sense. but we arent talking about an organism that cannot think, reason and deduce, a woman has a brain, in most cases .
> 
> what is the LD wifes contribution to this? sittin idle while you do all the work and then finally giving in to all of your hard work and rewarding you with some? she knows she isnt trying to provide for your needs, she is making a caculated decision not to.


If his wife is not sexual it means with 100% certainty that he is not meeting her needs. She does not feel loved. She does not feel excited and stimulated to be near him. A woman must feel loved to be sexual. Once she feels loved, she will be open to the effort that she has to make on her side.

I would not argue with your approach.... Basically force the wife to get over herself. Use Logic. Use threats. But, if 10 years of that approach does not work, it's time to start on a new approach.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Jezza...

Your excuse of being concerned about prostate issues keeps coming up, and personally, I think it's bogus. If that's your big concern, a date with Rosie Palm once a week will take care of that for you, and no guilt. Think of it as taking your weekly vitamin. 

As someone who was in a similar situation (not quite as sexless as yours) and who ended up looking outside the relationship... It's a very slippery slope. At least, it was for me. I started by thinking... What if I just fill this one little need in my relationship. Everything else is good, I just need the intimacy. 

But physical intimacy wasn't enough, to be perfectly honest. Physical intimacy without some sort of emotional connection just isn't the same. It just seemed inevitable to be looking for more and more of a connection. And getting a handjob from someone I hardly know can only be marginally better (I'm guessing) than a good website, a bottle of lube, and my imagination. 

My suggestion... If things are to the point that you're seriously considering looking outside the marriage, be upfront with your spouse and get it out there. Let her know that this is how bad things are. Either she works with you on making improvements in that aspect of your relationship or you need either a) an open marriage (not that I think this is a real solution for most people) or b) a separation/divorce. Again, just speaking of my experience... The resentments and frustrations, the emotions that develop from any sort of satisfying connection will eventually cause things go end up that way anyway. So you might as well go out with your morals and integrity intact. 

Even if a weekly handjob from some masseuse was acceptable to both of you now, can you honestly say that this is going to be acceptable for the next 10 or 20 years? Really? I think not. I think it would be the beginning of the end of your relationship, and you're lying to yourself if you think otherwise. Again, speaking mainly from my thoughts and situation... 

Just my $0.02... I know you were asking for input from the ladies, but what the heck... 

C


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

okeydokie said:


> and her response was "that if their husbands were making feel like that at home, there would be no reason for them to see the doctor"
> 
> irony indeed


Actually, that is what happened in the movie. I never said I agreed with it. Cheating is terrible in my opinion.


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## ohbrother (Jan 10, 2012)

Let me paint a picture for you ....

5 a.m. : Wife gets woken up with a crying baby who needs a diaper change, bottle and is ready to start the day.

Breakfast, find missing shoes, get lunches made for school, dress both children, clean up vomit off baby, re-dress children, clean up spilt milk, search around for missing keys, drive child to school, stop in at grocery store for more milk, search for something to soothe crying baby, try to put reluctant baby down for nap, rock baby until he falls asleep, clean up breakfast dishes, make beds, put laundry in, listen to mother-in-law's voice message asking why she still hasn't received kids Christmas photos in the mail, log into computer to send photos to print for mother-in-law, get baby up from nap, change diaper, feed lunch, clean up after lunch, re-dress baby after messy lunch, put snowsuit on baby, put crying baby in car, drive to photo shop to pick up pictures for mother-in-law, stop at toy store to buy presents for son's schoolmate who is having bday party on weekend, come home, take screaming baby out of car, give baby snack, vacuum, put laundry in dryer, back in car, pick up other child from school, get home, everyone out of the car, son is hungry, feed son snack, start cooking dinner, break up fight over teddy bear, feed kids, clean up dishes, do homework with son, get kids ready for bed, bath, books, bottle, diaper change ... 

Quiet.

Look in mirror -- realizes she hasn't brushed her teeth today or put on any makeup. Did she even eat anything today????

Wait for it ....

Husband is home -- time to switch her mind from all of the above and get ready to go down on her knees and give him a blow job.

Because, you know, HE has needs .....


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

ohbrothern you do so much, why do you even need a husband? The extra money?


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

ohbrother said:


> Let me paint a picture for you ....
> 
> 5 a.m. : Wife gets woken up with a crying baby who needs a diaper change, bottle and is ready to start the day.
> 
> ...


I hope this isn't what I have to look forward to...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jezza (Jan 12, 2011)

Yin....believe me its not that bad! Yes its hard work, but the first smile, the first word, the cheeky look you get suddenly makes it all worthwhile!

Speaking as a husband...all I ask is that you make time for your husband... I think all new parents priorities change during the first few months because of a new arrival....I'm sure your husband will help as much as he can and understand that the new child maybe needs you more than he does, but not all the time! Also YOU.... first you are you, then you are your husbands wife/lover then your childs mother.
One role may take precidence over another at different times, but it is vital you find time for you as you, and you as a married couple.


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## jezza (Jan 12, 2011)

Its a long time since I started this thread....and have just re-read the responses! 

Happy New year to all readers!!

Seems that there are people who think getting non emotional physical relief outside marriage is totally out of order no matter what...to those who understand.

Very few, if any marriages are perfect. If a husband couldn't (say) cut his own toenails because of a back problem and his wife refuses to cut them for him saying it was gross etc so he went for a pedicure....that would be perfectly OK. 
Though surely the marriage 'contract' that includes 'in sickness and in health' should mean that it is the wifes 'job' (and vice versa of course) to cut his toenails for him if he can't.... that is what being married is all about....Surely?

If the wife is quite happy with sex once a month but the husband wants it twice a week then the couple have to reach a compromise. He has to tone it down a bit, she has to tone it up a bit.
But what if she simply refuses to tone it 'up' a bit...saying 'I am who I am. Sorry'...then what?
Lots of you will say 'get to know Rosie Palm a bit better'.... We can all wash our own hair, give ourself a head massage, tickle ourselves...but its far nicer when someone else does it...

Anyway - when our councillor started talking to my wife about sex, its importance in a marriage and started to try to help my wife she suddenly stopped going. She hasnt been in 6 months. 
So either she thinks that despite being a married perfectly healthy pre-menopausal 45yr old it is absolutely normal not to be remotely interested in sex (with anyone) or she has issues, knows she has but simply refuses to deal with them or even acknowledge them...

I still go once a week.
Its a journey....a journey that I hope will lead to a better 'me'....if my wife wants to join me on that journey then great....if she doesn't....well, when our children are old enough to understand, and if someone comes along who likes the new me, I like her, we press all each others buttons etc...then I'll simply add to the divorce statistics. Which is sad.

But until that person comes along....I am a normal male with normal male needs...


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## theduck (Jan 2, 2012)

Janie said:


> I think it is the wrong thing to do, but for a different reason...
> 
> Communication is the key. If you have clearly communicated your sexual needs to your wife and she dismisses your need, the next conversation to have is to let her know you will not live your life celibate (or near-celibate). But, it needs to be discussed with her first or it is dishonest and sneaky.


I agee with this.

Doesn't matter. I truly don't see why you would be honest with your wife about all of this. You quite simply don't seem like the type of person who can accept full responsibility for your actions.

And that isn't a personal attack. I actually think that it is a shame.


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## confused55 (Apr 30, 2011)

Hi jezza,

Just wondering if you did follow through on getting a massage or not (once, many times)?

I saw your thread back in Feb when I caught my husband going to an exotic massage, so it really hit home.

I wish my husband would have told me he as thinking of going to one of these places because it would have been a lot easier than things have been in the past 10 months for both of us.

I wanted him to move out, he wouldn't, now I'm just left with anger and resentment, and probably things won't be going on much longer with our marriage.

Just trying to get the financials in order.

Too bad he made such a dump choice (twice). 
We had a great 30 yr marriage and he went ahead and killed it.

If you haven't done it yet, please talk to your wife about it. If you have done it, please tell her. I would have been much more accepting of a confession rather than finding an email appointment and being lied to.

Good Luck!


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

I am always amazed when the low drive spouce weather it be male or female is surprised when they find out their neglected partner sucums to temptation.


I belive in the vast majority of the cases the high drive spouce has tried to comunicate there unhappiness with the amount of intamicy in their marriage.

they might not have the best comunication skills and might have failed miserably at it. but the low drive spouce knows they are neglecting their high drive spouce.

not an excuse for cheating.

but after reading this board and seeing how often it happens I personally think that there is blame on both side of each marriage for the problems in each marriage.


better to be proactive in keeping your marriage healthy than complacent and thinking love conqures all.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Jezza,
This isn't about lust. There are basically a few outcomes that happen when a W doesn't typically feel innate "desire" for sex:
1. She teaches her H how to get her aroused. And she compromises with him on frequency. Ideally the compromise is humane. IMO if you cannot be bothered to focus on something critically important to your partner AT LEAST once a week for one hour, than clearly their happiness is not important to you. Once a week is a passing grade - but just barely. If she really does teach herself how to relax and get aroused, and teaches him how to do the arousing in a pleasurable manner, than a couple times a week ceases to be a "hardship" for her. 
2. If unable to do (1), she substitutes a strong and sincere desire to please (amplified by a desire to avoid causing him misery) and they mutually agree that 1 or 2 a week she will please him. If she actually loves him (which means she desires to please him and equally desires to avoid causing him misery), than a nice full body massage and a hand job is something that brings her the satisfaction of knowing she is being a giving partner. 
3. If unable to do 1, and unwilling to do (2), she is ALSO adamant that he not do (2) with a professional, than she is massively selfish and the marriage is not worth the paper it is printed on. 

Hmmmmm

So everyone else here has posted opinions. I believe that I am the one poster who has:
1. Experienced the joys of (1) above for most of my marriage.
2. Had some experience with (2) above due to menopause impacting my W's desire AND 
3. Very bluntly offered her option (3) above at one point when we were having tension about her lack of desire. 

I have a very long thread on (3) and how that played out. Turns out my W FAR, FAR, FAR and away preferred (2), to agreeing to (3), so 3 never happened. 

The biggest difference between our approaches is that your problem emerged after child number 1. Had that happened to me, we would have come to an agreeable resolution before having more children. 

She takes you for granted - and you seem to have let her do so for a decade plus. That is a respect issue. 




jezza said:


> Its a long time since I started this thread....and have just re-read the responses!
> 
> Happy New year to all readers!!
> 
> ...


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## Song (Jul 11, 2011)

Women have needs as well. Maybe you need to... seduce her instead of heading out the door to cheat on her. 

Believe me, most women wouldn't be happy to discover this kind of betrayal. This is cheating. OR would you inform her before you go? Because if you keep this behavior hidden, it's deception, which has no place in a marriage. 

Don't be a fool and go to a massage parlor. 

Ask yourself: How would you feel if your wife had another man stroke her to a happy ending? After all, she has needs....


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## confused55 (Apr 30, 2011)

Song said:


> Women have needs as well. Maybe you need to... seduce her instead of heading out the door to cheat on her.
> 
> Believe me, most women wouldn't be happy to discover this kind of betrayal. This is cheating. OR would you inform her before you go? Because if you keep this behavior hidden, it's deception, which has no place in a marriage.
> 
> ...


I totally agree with this. Believe me, you are in for bigger trouble than you could ever imagine.

Also, Jezza, if you have daughters and they find out (believe me they will), they may never speak to you again or just look at you as a pervert for the rest of their lives with no respect for you. If they are young, they will find out later.

There is no going back except confession.

Your wife is being selfish but you are more selfish.



I have experience with this.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Song said:


> Ask yourself: How would you feel if your wife had another man stroke her to a happy ending? After all, she has needs....


Apparently the OP`s wife doesn`t have those needs.

That`s the problem.


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## jezza (Jan 12, 2011)

Tacoma - you're spot on.

You can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

I admit that I always get really confused about these kinds of threads.

Because on one hand you have men saying things like - "well, sex is the way that I emotionally connect". But, then on the other hand they say things like - "well, I should be able to get my sexual needs met by another if you won't meet them" and they act like they can do that without any emotional connection - which is directly contrary to the first tenet.

And men think women are confusing? :scratchhead:

I would say to men - just act honourably. If you cannot repair the relationship with your wife after many honourable attempts, then divorce and let each other go. Then you can go to as many massage parlours as you want without hurting anyone else except yourself.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Enchantment said:


> I admit that I always get really confused about these kinds of threads.
> 
> Because on one hand you have men saying things like - "well, sex is the way that I emotionally connect". But, then on the other hand they say things like - "well, I should be able to get my sexual needs met by another if you won't meet them" and they act like they can do that without any emotional connection - which is directly contrary to the first tenet.
> 
> ...



Sex is important to men. It makes them feel loved and wanted and cared about and it feels good.

Sex with the person you love is the best feeling a man can have. If he feels that the person he loves really wants to be there and is also 'feeling the love'.

Sex is important to men. If the only option is emotionless sex, it is better than no sex at all. It may not make them feel loved, wanted and care about, but it still feels good.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

What I cannot wrap my head around is how you can say that everything else in your marriage is so great. How can you even be married to someone who totally refuses to have any kind of sex whatsoever with you?

Going and getting yanked off twice a week can't really be fulfilling. Don't you resent your wife for it? I mean, that's money you could be spending on something else, at the very least.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

*A wise post from a 1964 vintage*

The post below is a great observation. I totally agree. 

I am going to speak from the "other side" of the table. But before making this about "me" I will make a general observation:
*A large difference in desire creates a high degree of emotional vulnerability in a truly loving spouse. *

If you have two loving spouses - you have two vulnerable people. And that can work out fine. Each is careful of the other. Each treads lightly and with kindness. 

My W cannot do "the deed" with me, without some level of pain. I have zero desire to cause pain so we don't do "that". 

Because she feels "broken" she is vulnerable. It would be all too easy for me to cause her anxiety, sadness or pain by being clumsy or inconsiderate in what I say or how I act. 

So I make sure she knows that I think she is great - and that I am more than happy with what we "do have". And that I don't think about or feel bad about what we lack. And I repeat that message in the same firm, kind tone every time she mentions it. And I will do that from now until we shuffle off this mortal coil without ever getting irritated with her need for reassurance. Because love is patient, love is kind.....

If I treated her badly in this area, I couldn't say with a straight face "our marriage is great except for the fact that I make my W feel *less than* because of either freqency or type of sex. That just doesn't wash. And it wouldn't wash in reverse. 



Hope1964 said:


> What I cannot wrap my head around is how you can say that everything else in your marriage is so great. How can you even be married to someone who totally refuses to have any kind of sex whatsoever with you?
> 
> Going and getting yanked off twice a week can't really be fulfilling. Don't you resent your wife for it? I mean, that's money you could be spending on something else, at the very least.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

*Re: A wise post from a 1964 vintage*

MEM,

your marriage contains a great deal more mutuality (for want of a better word) that what is being discussed here. You are simply not comparing like with like. Vulnerability here is seen as a weakness, not a reason for kindness.



MEM11363 said:


> The post below is a great observation. I totally agree.
> 
> I am going to speak from the "other side" of the table. But before making this about "me" I will make a general observation:
> *A large difference in desire creates a high degree of emotional vulnerability in a truly loving spouse. *
> ...


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## DisgruntledUncle (Jul 9, 2012)

I have a nephew who met his wife in Thailand, and he has told me she condones his visits to parlours for the fact that she is older than him by 8 years (2 years younger than me). I'm no better as I like a good massage every now and then but I'm not married, and if I was I'd never go to any of those places much less allow pornography in the house. Worse he has a daughter, and how would he explain to her (when she becomes of age) that she should allow her hubbie to do the same thing. I love that child,(but I hate her mother for being such a pushover, yet I know she hates me because she never speaks to me) and I hope she never finds out about her dad. I knew how sorry I felt for moms when I found out pops had a fling with someone. Can someone please explain to me why people get married if they plan to cheat, WHY!?


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## 7737 (Feb 10, 2011)

The vast majority of people who get married have NO intention atall of cheating.

Married people, in general and mostly husbands, cheat because they are not getting sexual fulfillment within the marriage, for whatever reason.

If the husband and wife are well matched in 'sexual needs' and they are each fulfilling each others needs then its highly unlikely either party will 'wander'.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

number 1 would be the best option


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

The difference between OP's approach and MEM's approach is that MEM gave his wife the option. OP wants to do it behind her back and feel justified. Well, doing it behind her back is not justified. Sorry. But if you give her an ultimatum and then follow through on it, and are willing to accept the consequences then I think you're in the right.


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## wife29 (Jun 12, 2012)

If I was your wife I would leave you as soon as I found out. For so many reasons. What about talking with your wife about why she doesn't want sex and trying to fix that part of your marriage? Anything other than that will just contribute to the ending of your marriage.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I'm a guy and I frequently go against popular opinion so why should this time be different?

There surely is something "wrong" with it while you are in a committed marriage. But in my opinion going through a sexless marriage myself, when a LD spouse witholds sex they break the marriage vows anyways. That isnt love...holding hands, going for walks etc. I see female friends do that ish all the time. That's a platonic relationship...not a marriage.

When a LD spouse continues to stay in a marriage enjoying the benefits of dual income or shared responsibilities but feels no need to share their body...to me that goes against what marriage should be.


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## Mrs. T (Aug 5, 2011)

*Re: A wise post from a 1964 vintage*



MEM11363 said:


> The post below is a great observation. I totally agree.
> 
> I am going to speak from the "other side" of the table. But before making this about "me" I will make a general observation:
> *A large difference in desire creates a high degree of emotional vulnerability in a truly loving spouse. *
> ...


MEM...all I can say is WOW! Your wife is truly blessed with a man of compassion and understanding. Your post left me near speechless...something that is hard to do .


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## DisgruntledUncle (Jul 9, 2012)

7737 said:


> The vast majority of people who get married have NO intention atall of cheating.
> 
> Married people, in general and mostly husbands, cheat because they are not getting sexual fulfillment within the marriage, for whatever reason.
> 
> If the husband and wife are well matched in 'sexual needs' and they are each fulfilling each others needs then its highly unlikely either party will 'wander'.


not getting sexual fulfillment within the marriage

Wow, that's really depressing when you look at it from my point of view. To me a woman is more than the object of base sexual desire, and despite this, I feel these men (who believe that) are weak, should never marry and only patronize massage establishments. My dad once told me that a woman was simply put here to please a man. I hated him forever after he said this, because my mother is nobody's "object of desire". Anyway thanks for replying, I'm upset that my neph decided to marry in haste, but I can't say anything about it because of my status in our family. I see so much corruption it makes me sick. I probably will never be getting married as I have rage issues, and the last thing I want is to be dragged to a talk show by an angry child (like me) and embarrassed for all of national television to see. Why can't people (expletive future tense progressive) consider the children before they marry each other? You just create monsters and victims, and I love my niece and I'll be distraught if she experiences the same rage issues that I have today.


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## anonymity1 (Jul 8, 2012)

Plain and simple... NO. 

It's not difficult to muster up the energy every now and then and have sex. If the wife has absolutely no interest, she better make an interest. I ensure that my husband is satisfied, in the bedroom and out. 

Once a month, dress up sexy (or dress down), and massage your man. If you don't want to have sex, finish him how the parlour would. 

If my husband thought this behavior was okay, and he went out and partook in this... I'd be out the door. Your marriage is not fine and dandy if you aren't having sex. There's something wrong, and by going to a parlour, you are making things worse.


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## 7737 (Feb 10, 2011)

Disgruntled - I think you may have missed my point.... Lets be honest here...we get married because we want a partner, someone with whom we can share our lives. Someone to laugh with, cry with, party with, argue with, procreate with and yes have just plain old sex with. The full package.

Very often, a good sex life is the glue that truly bonds a marriage. Many posters on here (me included) say that in general, sex for the man is more important that it is for the woman.
Its how we bond, its how we like our spouse to show us they love us.
If that 'glue' ceases exist in a marriage then that is when one or other is MORE LIKELY to wander.

But when they stand infront of the altar (or whatever) and say 'I do' etc they mean it. 
I'd bet you that no man or woman who took their wedding vows planned to be unfaithful when they said 'yes'.


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## Joey_ (Jul 7, 2012)

I do not believe that prostitutes (in any form...) will ultimately fulfill your needs. If you are like me, you want someone to want you, to desire you, to have passion for you AND you want the satisfaction of giving them pleasure and fulfilling their desires. I do not believe prostitutes will provide this....they are being paid to have sex with you....how is this different than masturbation? 

Anytime you have sex with a third party, you are risking STDs....not something to take lightly.

You might end up on the evening news, if you are there when the place is busted.

However, with the above caveats in mind....if your spouse refuses to have sex with you, it is very understandable to seek to get those needs fulfilled with someone else.

I once heard that no one pays a prostitute to have sex, you can find that for free in most bars, but rather, you are paying a prostitute to leave when the sex is over. In many ways, prostitutes for married men is much safer for the relationship (except for possible STDs), in that no emotional relationship is formed.....it is all about the sex. However, it is this lack of an emotional relationship that I believe will in the end lead to dissatisfaction as this being a solution. 

Joey


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## Joey_ (Jul 7, 2012)

> For every husband out there who thinks his wife doesn't like sex, that wife likes sex plenty. She thinks about it, masturbates to it, has dreams about it. It's just not about you.


Bullsh!t. This might be true in some cases....not all. The more I read on this issue, the angrier I become. Do you think all of these women that lose interest in their husbands are sex goddesses themselves??? 

It takes work to stay interested in the same person for years or decades on end. 

I am sick and tired of women suggesting that it is all on the man because they happen to be either too lazy or too selfish to express interest in the one they vowed to love and cherish the rest of their lives.

I am not buying it.....it takes commitment from both. 

Too many women (and men for that matter) spend too much time whining, b!tching, and moaning over matters that are fully within their power to control.....if they treated love a little more like a verb than a noun and tried to do it every once and a while, many, many massage parlours would go out of business.

Joey


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Hicks,
Violently agree - AND - I want to very clearly separate your two statements below:
1. Feeling loved 
AND
2. Feeling excited 
And I will add one:
3. Feeling respect






Hicks said:


> If his wife is not sexual it means with 100% certainty that he is not meeting her needs. She does not feel loved. She does not feel excited and stimulated to be near him. A woman must feel loved to be sexual. Once she feels loved, she will be open to the effort that she has to make on her side.
> 
> I would not argue with your approach.... Basically force the wife to get over herself. Use Logic. Use threats. But, if 10 years of that approach does not work, it's time to start on a new approach.


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## 7737 (Feb 10, 2011)

Can't find (haven't looked to be honest!) Hicks above post....

Whoa there! What about HER making HIM feel loved hey? All too often, sexless marriages or LD wives are blamed on the man being a ba$tard...

Pi$$es me off big time.


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## Joey_ (Jul 7, 2012)

The standing argument seems to be that it is all the husband's fault that his wife has little interest in sex. 

Where and what is her responsibility in all of this? What about how she makes him feel? 


Joey


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## J.R.Jefferis (Jun 27, 2012)

You say you're only problem is in the bedroom, but in fact that is something that is a sign of greater problems in the marriage. If a hand job is all he needs, why aren't you giving it to him?


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## mountains (Jul 13, 2012)

I don't have time to read all 7 pages...so I may miss some of the replies where there were clarifications but hopefully I can give you a different perspective than some people:

I used to be a massage girl. I also later offered full sexual services. I had many massage clients who never upgraded and in fact stopped seeing me once I started offering more. Why? Because they either didn't want to be tempted or because they didn't want to associated with a sexual service. Most of them were married (maybe all) and they came to get massages for a number of reasons.

In your situation it sounds like he is trying to find a sexual replacement, but doesn't want to "cheat" so he's going a semi-legitimate service where he pays and there is no additional contact. He needs to feel sexually desired by a woman and he is probably feeling terrible that he has to pay a woman to do this. Not to make you feel bad but his self confidence, his belief in his abilities, etc is probably shot. I had so many clients who were like this, I felt so terrible for them. They loved their wives and their wives loved them, but they just didn't feel sexually desired at all.

Like JR above me suggested, why don't you try giving him a hand job? If you are not interested in giving your body to him sexually, why not let HIM give you HIS? There is something incredibly sexy and empowering about having a man at your mercy. 

It could be that you have serious libido problems, some kind of hormone deficiency that makes you really not into sex -- that's fine, totally cool, if you're happy. If you don't care that you don't want sex then awesome. But you obviously do care about him so why not learn to pleasure him instead? I have to tell you I often get way more out of getting my guy off then if I had been the one cumming. It's power, sure, but it's also love. I see him happy and in the throws of pleasure and it makes me feel all my love for him and I pour it all out to take care of him. But the sadist in me also loves the power. 

If your husband is going to a massage place like this he probably has a bit of a sexually submissive streak in him (otherwise he would see a prostitute for a massage -- parlours are different, there are rules, you do what the girl says, you don't touch her, etc. A prostitute, someone offering sex, will conform more to your wants). I bet he would love it if you just said "tonight is about you" and instead of giving your body to him you told him firmly "Lay down". Climb up, take his pants off, give him a wink, and then give him a hand job.

Sure, it might take a few goes before you learn what movements get him off but that's okay. My bf told me that he never cums with oral or hand jobs, NEVER. I just had to pay attention and now he never doesn't cum. You could ask him if you could watch him masturbating and then see where he puts his fingers and the speed he uses. You also can do this in a sneaky way by giving him that hand job and then putting his hand under yours. He would feel less on display this way as it would seem like it was still you doing it.

I hope some of this helped 

In conclusion: your hubby is a human and a human needs to know they are loved and wanted and this includes sexually. You don't need to give your body to him if it is unpleasant for you because it will be unpleasant for him too. But there are other ways you can show him he is a worthwhile sexual being.


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## Joey_ (Jul 7, 2012)

Mountains....that was nice. Although I haven't been to one of these services, I can actually see the attraction after reading your post.


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## 7737 (Feb 10, 2011)

Mountains....I concur with Joey. 
Thank-you for your perspective.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

> You know that you husband wants to make love to you so you make an extra special effort once a month to let him 'have' you.


Sounds super hot...


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

From the OP’s post I conclude that this husband is NOT abusing his wife in any way. Furthermore, the OP states that his wife’s sex problem is not at “The husband’s feet”
The OP states


> “Your husband loves you and cherishes you, and you him. Everything outside the bedroom is fine.”


Those posters that insinuate that the husband is the reason that the wife is failing at an important part of the marriage have no basis from the Op’s statements for their accusations.

The husband is the sole person bringing in the money and has paid for counseling.
However, when the counselor started to address the issue of sex the wife stopped going to the counselor.

The wife has violated the marriage for years and will not attempt to improve. The OP mentions going to a message parlor to have a woman help him with his sexual needs. We can all tell how immoral his actions are but that will not prevent the negative results that will occur in the marriage. So I think that the real question is what is the bottom line?

IMO 
The bottom line is:
The wife has broken the marriage and is inconsiderate of her husband.
The husband is going to a message parlor and getting some sexual relief from another woman 
Two wrongs will not help the negative affects that is occurring in this marriage.

The husband has been trying to find a solution for years and has concluded



> “…when our children are old enough to understand, and if someone comes along who likes the new me, I like her, we press all each others buttons etc...then I'll simply add to the divorce statistics. Which is sad.”


All the moral preaching in the world is not going prevent the deterioration of this marriage. The husband is unwilling to sacrifice a very important part of marriage, a part of the marriage (sex) that could be improved upon but the wife refuses.

Final bottom line:*When a spouse refuses, without justification, to improve in a very important part of marriage such as sex, and that improvement is possible, the vast majority of marriages will have substantial deterioration.* If the spouse that is denied sex is the male then other sexual outlets will be engaged in almost every case.

*You all can argue my bottom line but the fact is the OP will divorce his wife in a few years.[/*COLOR]


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Mr. Blunt....Sadly, I agree with you....as I wouldn't be atall surprised if the OP does end up leaving the marriage.

I was in a sexless marriage and was getting relief elsewhere....had my wife not suddenly changed and realised how important sex was/is to a marriage/me and that it was infact perfectly OK for her to enjoy it...then it would only have been a matter of time before I got totally fed up and went off to see a divorce lawyer...


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

Askari

I am glad that your wife woke up.
I hope your post will help some one before they have to wake up and deal with their spouse having sex with another person.


It seems that everyone knows that:

Men need sex and without sex the marriage will deteriorate
Women need affection and consideration or the marriage will deteriorate

Most of the time that the spouse does not provide the essentials above is because of the S words. Those S words are Selfishness and sacrifice (the choice to not sacrifice)


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Mr B - thank-you. I got well and truly shot down for starting a thread saying 'if you arent having sex with your husband someone else probably is'....

If the husband doesn't give his wife what SHE needs in a marriage then the chances of her 'wandering' are far higher.

Cuts both ways. I'm a realist.

Seems like alot of people on here aren't.


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## 7737 (Feb 10, 2011)

Boogie110 - I am sorry to hear your plight. Personally I cannot understand why a man would want to get sexual relief in a massage parlour when he has a good sex life at home...which ios what you appear to have.

On the otherhand I can understand (I am not saying it is right though) a husband who gives his all to the marriage and his wife yet gets no, or very little sexual intimacy in return ends up in a massage parlour.

Forgive me for being rude, but your husband is an oddity.

Good luck.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

In the scenario presented by the OP, the wife has chosen to break her marriage vows by withholding sex from her husband chronically, intentionally, and likely permanently. The husband, in the OP, is a good man who has helped provide a good marriage. He is not abusive, he attends to her needs, and she is happy with the relationship. Still, she broke the vow, and is not truly cherishing him, nor is she providing him sexual gratification since he has promised to "forsake all others".

She's forfeited the right to stand in moral objection to him seeking services outside of her. The best thing for him to do would be to leave her, but the vows were broken before he stepped a foot in a massage parlor, assuming that he did so only after the wife has refused to sleep with him.

I view holding as one side of the exact same coin adultery is on. Her behavior, again in the specific situation outlined in the OP, has broken the marriage, not his reactionary behavior afterward.


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## RocketMonger (Aug 4, 2012)

My wife's libido is good for great sex twice a week. On the times she doesn't want to have sex, she gladly gives me a handjob.

I've gotten to really look forward to those now. She's gotten damn near perfect technique, and she has nice long manicured painted nails. She teases me and tickles me until I'm shivering all over - until I finally orgasm. These are some of the most intense orgasms I've ever had, and yet it takes her less than 10 minutes.

This is 10 minutes maybe 2 or 3 times a week at the most. And it makes all the difference in the world. I feel like she cares about me every bit as much as she says she does. It makes me want to do things for her taht I otherwise would hate to do, because I want her to feel like I care just as much about her. 

There is no reason not to take a lousy 20 minutes a week to do something that completely changes your husband's whole outlook on life. It speaks volumes that you would consider such a small thing to be too much trouble.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *By RocketMonger*
> My wife's libido is good for great *sex twice a week*. On the times she doesn't want to have sex, *she gladly gives me a hand job.*
> 
> I've gotten to really look forward to those now. She's gotten damn near perfect technique, and she has nice long manicured painted nails. She teases me and tickles me until I'm shivering all over - until I finally orgasm. These are some of the most intense orgasms I've ever had, and yet it takes her less than 10 minutes.
> ...


*This is a great post for both men and women IMO.*

RocketMonger’s wife has a great attitude about the situation. She has less of a sexual drive than her husband but *“gladly gives a hand job”*

RocketMonger is so appreciative that * “…it makes me want to do things for her that I otherwise hate to do”*
RocketMonger and his wife have shown us how you handle it when there is a difference in sex drive.

Women that refuse to give up 30 minutes a week to please their husbands are asking for trouble and they are selfish. Good grief! 30 minutes a week is almost nothing. How would those women that refuse to give 30 minutes a week like it if the man says that he is only going to give to the household expenses 20% to 30% of his check and only give her 20-30% of her emotional needs?

Men who have wives that satisfy them sexually should do everything they can to please their wife. Like RocketMonger we men should do even what we do not like for our wife.

If you men and women treat each other right and consider each other then there is no need for all the sex oriented crap that men and women complain about. 

*There is an answer and a method to this sex issue if you want it. If you do not want the answer and method then you can post all your complaints but that will fix nothing*.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

A good marriage and a bad sex life do not co-exist. First thing that comes to mind is..." I have excellent health, but I do have heart failure."


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Also, a good marriage and one partner who wants to make an emotional exit from it do not co exist. You are a MAN...act like one. The time you have spent thinking about this happy ending thing could have been spent working with your wife on how to get your marriage back on track. Your being lazy and immature...grow a pair.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Sorry for the harsh words, but you did say leave out the moral stuff and my morals include not saying things like "grow a pair"


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## 7737 (Feb 10, 2011)

Rocektmonger....I agree. Whats a 10 min (ok ok....5min!!) handjob twice a week? Nothing. 
If my wife did that for ME my whole attitude would change...for the better!

Thing is, which came first? The chicken or the egg?

If my wife thinks I'm a $hit, why should she give me HJ's? ...and because she doesn't I'm more of a $hit...vicious circle.

Thing is, I'm not a $hit...not even in her eyes. She is asexual. 
So, because we have young children and I respect my marriage vows, I make do with my right hand and my imagination! 

But I can understand where the OP is coming from.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Women are asexual if their husband isn't meeting her needs. Men find it hard to meet her needs when there is no sex....but if your on here talking about your lack of sex, why not be the one to shake things up, do something differ, and change the patten you have in your marriage? Take your HJ money, buy your wife some flowers and ask her what she needs from YOU.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

And avoid statements like, " you never....." "you always...." "why can't you...." "why do you...". All of those automatically put a person on the defense.


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## 7737 (Feb 10, 2011)

Sorry Missy...I'm afraid we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one! 

There are women in this world (look at the threads/posts etc on TAM) who no matter what their husbands do are simply not interested in sex. Fact.

I am not aportioning blame to one side or the other, simply that some women just arent interested.

Just as there are men (though not as many) who are not gay but would much rather spend the afternoon fishing than having sex.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

missymrs80 said:


> Women are asexual if their husband isn't meeting her needs. Men find it hard to meet her needs when there is no sex....but if your on here talking about your lack of sex, why not be the one to shake things up, do something differ, and change the patten you have in your marriage? Take your HJ money, buy your wife some flowers and ask her what she needs from YOU.


Oh Missy, I think you are rather new here, Some of these men have climbed freaking mountains to please their women...it just isn't there, they don't care, they don't get it, they don't want to get it and such men are not at all - at fault. Other than treating their wives TOO good...when they shouldn't. 

I once took my wonderful husband for granted (I oughtta know)-but I always loved sex, that was 1 plus. 

If these men were with another.... they could have a thriving loving sex life. 

They are exceptional men -soooo many stay for their children ...they stick it out, even remain faithful ....I really don't know how they do it. 

I wouldn't be able to do it.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Oh Missy, I think you are rather new here, Some of these men have climbed freaking mountains to please their women...it just isn't there, they don't care, they don't get it, they don't want to get it and such men are not at all - at fault. Other than treating their wives TOO good...when they shouldn't.
> 
> I once took my wonderful husband for granted (I oughtta know)-but I always loved sex, that was 1 plus.
> 
> ...


I'm not saying any man is at fault...there is no such thing as the right one and the wrong one. 
Simplyamorous, you are describing codependcy issues. Codependency is a disease just as addiction is. And a codependent doesn't always co-exist with an addict.

Co-dependency is a learned behavior that can be passed down from one generation to another. It is an emotional and behavioral condition that affects an individual’s ability to have a healthy, mutually satisfying relationship. It is also known as “relationship addiction” because people with codependency often form or maintain relationships that are one-sided, emotionally destructive and/or abusive. The disorder was first identified about ten years ago as the result of years of studying interpersonal relationships in families of alcoholics. Co-dependent behavior is learned by watching and imitating other family members who display this type of behavior.

Who Does Co-dependency Affect?
Co-dependency often affects a spouse, a parent, sibling, friend, or co-worker of a person afflicted with alcohol or drug dependence. Originally, co-dependent was a term used to describe partners in chemical dependency, persons living with, or in a relationship with an addicted person. Similar patterns have been seen in people in relationships with chronically or mentally ill individuals. Today, however, the term has broadened to describe any co-dependent person from any dysfunctional family.

What is a Dysfunctional Family and How Does it Lead to Co-dependency?
A dysfunctional family is one in which members suffer from fear, anger, pain, or shame that is ignored or denied. Underlying problems may include any of the following:

An addiction by a family member to drugs, alcohol, relationships, work, food, sex, or gambling.
The existence of physical, emotional, or sexual abuse.
The presence of a family member suffering from a chronic mental or physical illness.
Dysfunctional families do not acknowledge that problems exist. They don’t talk about them or confront them. As a result, family members learn to repress emotions and disregard their own needs. They become “survivors.” They develop behaviors that help them deny, ignore, or avoid difficult emotions. They detach themselves. They don’t talk. They don’t touch. They don’t confront. They don’t feel. They don’t trust. The identity and emotional development of the members of a dysfunctional family are often inhibited

Attention and energy focus on the family member who is ill or addicted. The co-dependent person typically sacrifices his or her needs to take care of a person who is sick. When co-dependents place other people’s health, welfare and safety before their own, they can lose contact with their own needs, desires, and sense of self.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Codependency issues were recognized in the 80's so maybe this article is a little old due to it saying "10 years ago..." the content is accurate nonetheless

There is a 12 step program for codependents as well.

http://mentalhealthamerica.net/go/codependency


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## srtjm (Jul 11, 2012)

jezza said:


> Ladies, I would really appreciate your thoughts on something...please don't shoot me down and please don't bombard me with morals etc! I know what I am talking about below is morally wrong, however we also live in a real world...
> 
> 
> Now.... (and I have my antiflak jacket on!!) - if you found out that your husband went to a massage parlour a couple of times a month....he has a proper massage, the masseuse is topless...he rolls onto his back, she does his front...his balls..he gets hard and she gives him a hand job. A 'happy ending'. Thats it. A simple hand job...no penetration of vagina, mouth etc and no kissing so no 'health issues'. A straight forward massage + hand job.
> ...


Why don't you Give him a Masage and hand job?


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> Women are asexual if their husband isn't meeting her needs...


That's like somebody on here saying that their husband revealed he's gay, and you saying that he's homosexual because your poon wasn't right.

:scratchhead:

There are genuinely asexual people. Not all people going through periods of low and no-drive are there because their "needs" aren't being met. Some women, and men, are simply asexual, and always likely will be.


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## 7737 (Feb 10, 2011)

:iagree::iagree:


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> I'm not saying any man is at fault...there is no such thing as the right one and the wrong one.
> Simplyamorous, you are describing codependcy issues. Codependency is a disease just as addiction is. And a codependent doesn't always co-exist with an addict.
> 
> Co-dependency is a learned behavior that can be passed down from one generation to another. It is an emotional and behavioral condition that affects an individual’s ability to have a healthy, mutually satisfying relationship. It is also known as “relationship addiction” because people with codependency often form or maintain relationships that are one-sided, emotionally destructive and/or abusive. The disorder was first identified about ten years ago as the result of years of studying interpersonal relationships in families of alcoholics. Co-dependent behavior is learned by watching and imitating other family members who display this type of behavior.
> ...


Huh? Are you saying when a couple have mismatched sex drives it's really a codependency issue because they compromise on what they want sexually to stay together?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

missymrs80 said:


> I'm not saying any man is at fault...there is no such thing as the right one and the wrong one.
> Simplyamorous, you are describing codependcy issues. Codependency is a disease just as addiction is. And a codependent doesn't always co-exist with an addict.
> 
> Co-dependency is a learned behavior that can be passed down from one generation to another. It is an emotional and behavioral condition that affects an individual’s ability to have a healthy, mutually satisfying relationship. It is also known as “relationship addiction” because people with codependency often form or maintain relationships that are one-sided, emotionally destructive and/or abusive.


I don't doubt these things...would someone say my husband was co -dependent when he wasn't getting his needs met as much as he wanted? (in our case, he was too silent- I labled him too passive /Nice guyish)

He loved me, he is a good man, didn't want to rock the boat..plus he blew assertiveness to the wind. 

And many stay for the children, sacrificing their own happiness. Is this wrong? What IS the answer? 

Will they all be labeled co-dependents for this. I know little about this subject .....You are the Therapist among us...right ?


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Amorous , 

Ok first by no means is what I say on here meant to be taken as any sort of actual counseling or therapy...just to clarify. This is just me talking to people, sharing personal stuff and giving advice. Therapy isn't advice. Anyway just wanted to give that disclaimer.

......SACRIFICE Happiness 

I am a co-dpnt in Recovery.....in the past I would have sacrificed anything (and i did) for the sake of fixing things in the family or to make other people "okay" 

If you are mentally I'll/ an addict/ physically verbally emotionally abusive then maybe. But I don't think that's what u meant in your statement. You are describing that natural ebb and flow of relationship...of marriages. 

I am simply pointing out that your previous comment to me described co-dependency. I didn't even say that certain people on here are.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

7737 said:


> Sorry Missy...I'm afraid we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one!
> 
> There are women in this world (look at the threads/posts etc on TAM) who no matter what their husbands do are simply not interested in sex. Fact.
> 
> ...


I was commenting on the op's question. 

For the sake of this thread, please lets forget the 'why' you don't like sex....Everything in the marriage is good except the sex. You just don't do it for whatever reason. - original poster

I pointed out the same cycle that you referred to in your comment, but now you are saying I'm wrong? 
If your wife was experiencing ld ....true ld...I find it sad that someone would get an HJ from another person. 

I see I used the same word as u did in ur post, "asexual"....so I'm guessing u thought I was commenting on ur post. I wasn't.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Wazza said:


> Huh? Are you saying when a couple have mismatched sex drives it's really a codependency issue because they compromise on what they want sexually to stay together?


I did not say that, nor do I mean that. Sheesh


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

7737 said:


> Rocektmonger....I agree. Whats a 10 min (ok ok....5min!!) handjob twice a week? Nothing.
> If my wife did that for ME my whole attitude would change...for the better!
> 
> Thing is, which came first? The chicken or the egg?
> ...


And you get it...just like u said, if ur wife gave u and HJ, your attitude would change for the better. It's not linear, it's systemic...it's about the whole process. You can't isolate one variable. I am saying do something different than what's going on, and again, my comment was to the op, not to u


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

7737 my tone of voice would be sweet and calm if I were saying what i said to you out loud....so take that into consideration while reading my responses/comments to u lol


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## OEF (Nov 29, 2012)

JrsMrs said:


> A few thoughts...
> Being HD myself, of course it is easy for me to say that if it took so little to please my spouse as jerk him off a couple times a month, I would have no trouble doing that, even if I wasn't interested in sex myself. That said, in my experience, most LD spouses are not of the same mindset, and seem to think that sexuality is a weakness of some sort that should be overcome and would probably find it disgusting that the guy was so desperate for a wank that he'd go anywhere for it.
> At the same time, from personal experience and from what I've read here on the boards, having a completely impersonal purely sexual relationship with someone is dissatisfying. A lack of sex in a marriage is more than a lack of orgasms at another person's hands. It is feeling undesired, feeling that your needs are unimportant to your spouse, feeling frustrated that your marriage is not everything you want it to be.
> The whole tangle of emotion that comes from having a spouse who is not sexually interested in you is really much more complex that simply saying 'we don't have enough sex.' So I think even if on paper, that plan might work out, in reality I really don't think it will be satisfactory to either spouse. Sex carries much more with it than just the act, so I really don't think you can boil it down to the point of saying 'well, I'm getting 90% of what I want from this marriage, I will just go out for the other 10%.' It's not the same as if, say, one spouse just LOVES spaghetti and would love to have it for dinner at least a few times a week. The other spouse really hates spaghetti, maybe could stand cooking it once a month at most. So the first spouse decides, hey, that's ok, whenever I'm craving a nice big bowl of pasta, I'll just head out to my favorite restaurant, and you can stay home and eat your chicken and then we're both happy.
> ...


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## OEF (Nov 29, 2012)

This observation or reply may be late in posting' but MarKet hit the nail squarely on its head. Sex and orgasms are great, but the feeling of intimacy, and affection that is tied to the physical act of sex, in my opinion, is what helps cement a good relationship, and has long lasting emotional benefits over a pure mechanical act. 

Yes getting one's "rocks" off via an orgasm may be fine and dandy at times, but that alone will not lead to personal fulfilment . P2P sex have no real long term benefits.

Kudos to you JrsMrs. For saying it as it really is.


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## Tammigirl57 (Aug 15, 2017)

jezza said:


> Ladies, I would really appreciate your thoughts on something...please don't shoot me down and please don't bombard me with morals etc! I know what I am talking about below is morally wrong, however we also live in a real world...
> 
> I'll set the stage....you are happily married to your husband. The relationship is good and you get on well...you have the same sorts of arguements that all married couples have. Your husband loves you and cherishes you, and you him. Everything outside the bedroom is fine.
> However, inside the bedroom things are not so good. You are simply not interested in sex. You do not see it as important...you are happy with holding hands, hugs, cuddles etc. You know that you husband wants to make love to you so you make an extra special effort once a month to let him 'have' you.
> ...


My husband was going and I allowed it because at the time I couldn't have sex do to a medical condition. He would go for a massage and HJ. Shortly after, I found out that he started going for Full Service and as they call it a Special....SEX. So, I shut him down. I had him tested, I got tested and I told him if I ever even think he's going to another he will find himself in divorce court in two snaps! See, it started off with the HJ, but turned into something more not long after. If you love your wife you should have problems having sex. Not unless it's a medical situation and even then you hand should also be an option...


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Tammigirl57 said:


> My husband was going and I allowed it because at the time I couldn't have sex do to a medical condition. He would go for a massage and HJ. Shortly after, I found out that he started going for Full Service and as they call it a Special....SEX. So, I shut him down. I had him tested, I got tested and I told him if I ever even think he's going to another he will find himself in divorce court in two snaps! See, it started off with the HJ, but turned into something more not long after. If you love your wife you should have problems having sex. Not unless it's a medical situation and even then you hand should also be an option...


 @Tammigirl57 You do realize this thread is a zombie thread and it died back in 2012?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*This thread has been closed by the Zombie Thread Kitty Patrol.*


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