# Need a little guidance



## needsomead (Feb 23, 2016)

Hi there, 

Any wise people out there can help me what I already know?

Ok, Married 20 years. Wife is one of those individuals that cannot accept failure. When most couples have an argument, she will fight rather than backing down. Digs her heals in. I must admit, I was a prick. In the early days we were both drinking and I was drinking a lot more. 

Stopped drinking about 7 years ago, but still we would have the occasional fight. Maybe once a month. If we had a disagreement, she would fight until I exploded, (not physically) and then she would end up in tears. Tragic situation really. It was the only way she would ever back down. I felt that it was he only way I could get some emotion, or at least a way for her to talk.

She has a major problem with self image, and often she would say things like, I am way too fat (when she is not), I hate myself etc etc I would say, why don't you go buy some clothes, she would respond by saying what is the point I am too fat. Only then, weeks later saying she had no nice clothes.

No matter how hard I tried in recent years, as soon as we had a disagreement, no matter how minor, she would say you are just being nasty and bring up the past when I was a prick. There was no escaping, she would just revert back to all the times I hurt her. I would say, "stop bringing up the past" and communicate. She would say, I am not going back there you just want an argument and leave. She just would not say like an adult, OK you have hurt me this is wrong etc. She would shut the blinds and walk away.

I know I have taken her for granted for a very long time. Because of the early days she says she lives in fear. 20 years ago. We had such explosive border line violent arguments. 

I admit, over the years I would be testy and grumpy and even yelled which was wrong. We would almost disregard each other but then, we would find a way to laugh and have fun later.

I cannot understand why in recent years she would still say she lives in fear as we have taken our kids away every year overseas and she loves the times together. Never any problems. We have such a lot of fun. We have a beach house, and every second weekend we would have a ball together as a family.

We run a company together from our home (for 10 years) and most days we would be fine and get on really well. She is very highly strung so if there was an issue like she forgot something or made a mistake, she would over react and say how much she has ****ed up and that she is such a failure. I would say she is not but end up getting frustrated and withdrawing somewhere else.

Last October, she said that she was really unhappy and burst into tears. Being a typical male, I did not see it coming. 

Three weeks ago she said she wanted to separate. I was blindsided, as the night before she was flashing her breasts at me saying how about it.

She said that she has wanted to leave for a long time but was too scared in case I got angry.

She may have had someone coaching her just before dropping the bomb shell, or maybe an online lover, but she has never had the chance to really have an affair as we are together all of the time.

She is determined that we separate. Like I say, she hates failure so when she sets her mind to something, that is it. We have another little property near by so we agreed that we take it in turns staying there. One week on and one week off. She wants us to both have our clothes there. We both need to be at our main home to keep working each day. In this way the person who is at the main house looks after getting the teenage boys ready for school etc

Anyway, what is confusing the crap out of me is that she says that there is too much damage and although she can see me in her life, she can never see a relationship again. As she says, I do not want to be your wife! There has been too much damage and too much hurt. We must do this for the kids and our business and be mature. She also says, you are a really great guy and a wonderful father. The kids adore you.

She says she has wasted 20 years of her life and she will never get that back. She says, she feels old and ugly, and does not care if she ever meets another person, "I just want to grow and be independent." I have said to her that she should become an actor as she had me convinced she was enjoying herself many times over the years. I said, it is like a person who goes to a party and laughs and has great time, only to then say the next day how much of a bad a time they had. Confusing?

I know she is in a lot of pain but keeps reflecting back into the past and as soon as I say things like, why can't we just work on this, she gets angry and starts crying recanting about all the bad things I have done. I am seeing a therapist to help me be a better person.

I actually thought things were getting better in the last week. We seem to be getting on better than we have ever done before. 

I did not bring up anything about our separating. 

In the last week she would sometimes bump into me, or straighten an out of place hair, we would look into each others eyes and really talk, in depth, about politics or the old times and how much fun we had. She would recall holidays and even our honeymoon. 

As we are still in the same house, waiting for the other property to become available in about a week, we would lay on our bed in the evening and watch TV and chat, like we have always done, like nothing has ever happened. We would laugh and enjoy each others company. She wanted us to go to the movies as a family so we did yesterday. We both got on so incredibly well. Probably best in a long time. I was engaged in what she was saying and it almost felt like two new lovers on a date.

Although she would refrain from touching, she would do things like stick a piece of popcorn in my ear.

Today, she sent another email to the agent asking when the house would be ready so we could finalize our separation. WTF. So when I started asking again if she could see anything in the future for us, she said again, I can never see us being a couple again and to stop pressuring her. 

She said, I am suffocated, I need to be my own person, I want to live my life the way I want it without you telling what to do. She also said, now that we have money, you can never hold me to ransom.

I know I was grumpy at times and we had a very turbulent start to our relationship as we were both drinking, we also had many rocky times throughout the 20 years, but for the most part, we have had wonderful times yet she recalls every nasty thing that I said and have done from years ago. 

I explained to her that I was sleeping at the wheel and needed a big kick. She says it does not matter as she has heard it before and does not trust me.

She makes me feel like I was some incredible drunken abusive husband that comes home and bashes her. This is simply not true. She says that I was a passive abusive and maybe it might be true. I am not sure. 

All I know is that I would stand up for my rights when she would blame me things that I did not do.

Example:

Many years ago, we all built a green house one day with her parents. Team effort! One panel was upside down. My wife said, " You put it in upside down" her father stepped in and said " we, we put it upside down" 

My god, what a rant! So sorry!

I know I am good person but I am very confused as to what to do.


----------



## karazy (Aug 31, 2015)

Hmm if I had to take a guess, I think she is cheating or has found someone that she wants to start spending time with.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

karazy said:


> Hmm if I had to take a guess, I think she is cheating or has found someone that she wants to start spending time with.


Yup.


----------



## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

The worst thing you can do right now is get defensive and try to logic and reason with her. Right now, you are not the same person to her that you are. You are wearing a mask, and there is a lack of intimacy. When contempt enters the game, there is never anything you can do to get in high regard with someone, just as a drug addict needs that drug just to feel "normal".

1. Validate her reasons for wanting separation. This is acceptance, not promotion. You are just letting her know that she was heard and is respected. At the same time,
2. Send periodic invitations to her. These are invitations, not expectations. If she declines, then let it be. If she accepts, let her join you at her pace and comfort level.
3. Realize that the relationship degraded because two individuals had individual failures. Don't accept all of the blame, but also don't make attacks of your own. Just:
4. Own your history of actions.
5. Develop a place you want to be in the relationship and be the person you would be in that place.  Is that helplessly in love man giving negativity, begging, or desperate? No.

Try a new marriage model. Court her, and NEVER stop. It will take time for her to put this other mask on you.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

First, sit down and check the phone records to see if there's a number she's been texting a lot.

If you find nothing, the only thing that's going to help here is therapy - to learn better ways to deal with things, for her to start fixing her broken self worth.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Relationship Teacher said:


> The worst thing you can do right now is get defensive and try to logic and reason with her. Right now, you are not the same person to her that you are. You are wearing a mask, and there is a lack of intimacy. When contempt enters the game, there is never anything you can do to get in high regard with someone, just as a drug addict needs that drug just to feel "normal".
> 
> 1. Validate her reasons for wanting separation. This is acceptance, not promotion. You are just letting her know that she was heard and is respected. At the same time,
> 2. Send periodic invitations to her. These are invitations, not expectations. If she declines, then let it be. If she accepts, let her join you at her pace and comfort level.
> ...


Before you do ANY of this, you need to find out if she's cheating or not. If she is, none of this applies.


----------



## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Your wife is addicted to seeking and receiving validation from others. Nothimg is more ressuaring then validation from new prople. You are old news and besides she owns you. You are taking stock and ownership of your issues. Continue to do so and seek out IC and divorce support groups. At this point silence is golden. Practice the 180 and work on each element every day. Just be polite , diplomatic, and pragmatic. 


Liove shack 180*


There continue to be more and more arrivals to our LS section on Divorce and Separation. Often, I find myself technically challenged when it comes to citing links, or just general recall sometimes. As well, I many times repeat my reading advice to posters. As a contributor to this section, I thought it might be useful to us and our newcomers to get all of our reading materials in one place, rather than citing and re-citing.

Perhaps others will join me in posting helpful relevant material and cites -- on this new thread I am trying to begin. Can some please post the most current "No Contact" draft that is available so it will come up in the second post of the thread?*

Theefore, please of our find our most popular reference below:*

THE 180's:

180 is a list of behaviors from Michelle Wiener Davis, the author of Divorce Busting, that will help your spouse to see you moving forward as a healthy person. I would highly suggest that any new BS begin these behaviors as soon as possible. I am convinced that if I had implemented them, I would still be married. In retrospect, I did everything besides 180. I looked pathetic. No one wants to be perceived as pathetic. 180 makes you look strong. Strong is attractive. (Making it)*

So here's the list:*
Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
No frequent phone calls.
Don't point out "good points" in marriage.
Don't follow her/him around the house.
Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.
Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS.
Don't ask for reassurances.
Don't buy or give gifts.
Don't schedule dates together.
Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.
Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!
Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.
Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!
When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!
If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.
Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them!
Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.
No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.
All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!
Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!
Don't be overly enthusiastic.
Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!
Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!
Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.
Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.
Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.
Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.
Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.
Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!
Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.
Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"
Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.
When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW."

Here is the link Critical Readings For Separation and Divorce - LoveShack.org Community Forums


----------



## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

As to pragmatic: 


A strategy*

Author: MEM
Editor: Marduk

If you are reading this it's because the most important person in the world - betrayed you. Sorry you're here. The good news is that you are the product of thousands of generations of clever, resourceful, tough ancestors who navigated flood, famine and ice age and consequently much stronger than you realize. You might love and want your partner, but you don't need them. Accept that and allow it to inform your actions to maximize your outcome. Conversely, choose to believe and act as if you need your spouse, and bring your worst fears to fruition. Love is your friend, need and neediness are your enemy.*

From the point of discovery forward you ought to focus on regaining your emotional equilibrium. It's hard to do because you naturally feel disoriented. Your primary human anchor just pulled up. Pick a trusted friend with a balanced view of your marriage and talk to them. Exercise is critical. Sleep may be tough. Catch up on weekends if possible. Try to prioritize this stuff until you've gotten through the worst of the disorientation. Avoid alcohol, drugs and opposite sex entanglements.

With that as prelude, the guidelines below are intended to help you navigate the Rapids:
- Assess the overall marriage
- Confirm that your spouse feels the same way
- Execute either an ALL IN reconciliation or the cleanest possible extraction from the marriage

I'm going to write this gender neutral - with one exception. Physical intimidation is not only maritally toxic - it may come back to bite you hard in family court. Pretend your spouse is recording, nay videotaping every conversation.*

Assessment: The goal is to search your soul and/or your gut to decide whether you think the marriage worth saving. Might help you to ask yourself some tough questions. Thing is, most folks feel some amount of love when they marry. And love is a beautiful thing. But for the long game, and marriage is the ultimate long game - compatibility rules. Love sans compatibility is the worst pairing of all. Virtually guarantees unhappiness. No oath, no vow will stop an unhappy person from cheating - either via a continuation of the affair or a brand new one. So roll back to just before you 'think' the affair started and answer the following queries.*

1. From that vantage if you could choose all over again, would you marry this person?*
2. How would your partner answer that question had they been asked it pre-affair?
3. Do/did you love each other?
4. Are you compatible?*
5. How much did my spouse accept and/or seek my company?
6. My non sexual touch
7. Sex*
8. Overall did they do a good job of making me feel loved/important?
9. Did I do a good job of making them feel loved/important?
10. Was your partner overall trustworthy, reliable and focused on you? 11. Or did they have a wandering eye, a flirtatious posture towards others.*
12. Did they let you marry them, or want to marry you?*
13. Do they feel sick about betraying you?
14. Or only sick they have been caught?
15. Or only sick at the prospect of being exposed to friends/family?
16. Or only sick at the thought of having to end the affair?*
17. Have they cheated on prior partners?*

After answering those questions you ought to have a good feel about recon or divorce.*

If you want to reconcile, it is time to discover what your partner wants.*
1. Do they want to stay married/try and reconcile?
2. Why did they cheat?*
3. What are they willing to DO to rebuild trust and heal?
4. Write a no contact letter?
5. Make a no contact call in your presence?
6. End the affair without one last get together for closure?
7. Provide transparency via phones and passwords etc?
8. Resume (if the affair interrupted it) a normal sex life with you?
9. Provide you with whatever details you want including a timeline of the affair?
10. Transfer departments or change employers entirely if their AP is from work?*
11. Take a test for STDs
12. Take a pregnancy test

Regarding (2), listen carefully. Might learn stuff ends up improving your marriage. The responses to (2) range from: we had a good marriage and I behaved selfishly and that is entirely on me. To you are the worst spouse since Henry the eighth and that is the ONLY reason I cheated. What they say might however, have real merit. For instance: you stopped sleeping with me years ago, or you consistently rejected my requests to spend time together. If you were the primary cause of a weak marriage, you need to decide if you can fix it. And you should acknowledge that and commit to fixing it.*

Confirmation: This phase is mostly about observable behavior. Words and in this case vows - are cheap. Actions WILL confirm or contradict your assessment. Is their primary emotion remorse or resentment. The stuff they committed to doing up above - are they doing it without pressure. Or is it you dragging them along. Considerate and kind about your heightened anxiety level? Or accusing you of being controlling?*

Execution: If you've both decided to try to recon, it's critical to accept the following:*
1. The more needy you seem, the less lovable you will be. This is every bit as unfair as it is true.*
2. People use the following phrase all the time: I was crying and begging them to stay
3. Crying is ok. It's about the loss of something you prized. It shows love.
4. Begging may be the single most toxic thing a betrayed spouse typically does. Crying means: You love them and are sad at the thought of losing them. Begging means you don't love yourself very much.*
5. If their affair partner is married or living with someone, you ought to contact that person and let them know what's been happening. There are several benefits to that, the best one is this. If your spouse has truly committed to NC, won't be a big deal. If they are still prioritizing their AP, you will get an angry reaction.*
6. If their AP is a coworker they frequently interact with, that's an inherently difficult situation. The focus should be on their prioritizing a transfer/company change.
7. Your perception of time is now different. Before Dday - you likely weren't nearly as impacted if they were running a bit late and didn't call. When it happens after Dday, you feel a lot more anxious. Thing is, if you call or text them every time they are officially one minute late, they will love you less. Doesn't mean you ought to be a doormat. If they are routinely way late without a call - that is a very bad sign. At minimum it means they are comfortable knowingly causing you intense distress.
8. Sex is a great litmus test for whether the recon is genuine. A WS who, upon discovery abandons, or continues to abandon the marital bed, is likely insincere.
9. Some folks advocate a zero tolerance shock and awe approach to demanding they stop the affair. This is a: choose right now one way or the other approach.*
10. Others are willing to compete with the AP over a period of time when faced with a WS who openly refuses to stop the affair. This is more likely a good strategy if you believe your pre-affair conduct was a significant contributor to the affair and want your spouse to see the 'new and improved' you before insisting they choose. And in some cases, this approach results in their choosing to end it of their own free will. Most folks find this competition period intensely stressful. If your partner is either selfish or has weak character, they will string this out as long as you allow. And will constantly move the goal posts for what you must do to win them back. This path MUST have a bright line end date.*
11. There are many paths to successful recon. However, a partner who continues a sexual relationship with their AP, while refusing to sleep with you, rarely reconciles. They tend to totally lose respect for you for tolerating it.*
12. Last but not least. You may be tempted to employ some extreme tactics in an effort to recon. These include your use of third parties either to advise of shame your partner. See examples below.*

Option 1: Attempting to cripple your partner so they CAN'T leave. If you go this route, eventually everyone you know will know that - you've turned into a psychopath - including your children and the family court judge. Good luck with that.*

BS: I just called the last of our friends and family and sent an email out to them as well. I told them what you did to me and the children. And asked them to contact you and tell you how wrong it is to destroy our family for a few cheap fvcks. I also contacted your employer and made a big fuss. I think they're going to fire you. And when I spoke to your AP's spouse, they told me they are going to try and work it out with your AP. And I also called the minister at our church. So go ahead and divorce me. Just know that you have no friends, your family is on my side, you will shortly be unemployed, you are unwelcome at our church and your AP is likely going to dump you. One last thing, I told the kids too. They were spitting mad.

Option 2: AKA - the voice of reason approach
BS: Picks one person who knows and loves their WS. Swears that person to secrecy and asks them to reach out to the WS and try and support them through the fog. The message to the friend is short and practical. I believe we had a good marriage and can recover. WS is lost in the fog. If you believe WS will end up regretting a divorce, maybe you can support me in helping them navigate out of the fog.*

Obviously there are many points on the spectrum between option 1 and option 2. A small modification to option 2 is to disclose to the partner of your spouse's AP. That person is in the same boat you are. That's actually a very effective step.


Thanks @marduk and @MEM1131


----------



## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Separation is normally a preclude to divorce or the ability to spend time with someone else.

Check your phone records online. First step. 

You will not be the first or last who comes here and says she wouldn't/couldn't have time or there's no way this is going on. Unfortunately that's usually the case.

Sorry you're here and good luck to you.

Know 100% what you're up against before charging down the wrong path.


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

OP, a friend of mine is dating an alcoholic. He stopped drinking years ago. She tells me that he is a "dry drunk" with all the same habits of a person with addiction, just not the drinking. Are you familiar with that?

Your past history is huge baggage. When she says stuff about the past, you should NOT say "stop bringing up the past" but should have said something like "yes, you are right. I was a ____ and you deserve better and I hope to become that better person." It is not grovelling. She wants validation of her feelings and you want to win a logical argument. I do not believe you when you said that you "communicate". 

As for the greenhouse example, when she said " You put it in upside down" , you should have laughed and said "Yes, you are right, thanks for noticing." Instead you continue the cycle of anger. Her comment is right, although she could have said "It is upside down" and that might have been received better by you. To me they are the same comment. You look for offense when it might not be there. 

What do you expect to do with the business when you separate or divorce. It will not be possible to continue with both of you working together. IMO, you and her are together WAY too much with work and home being the same. With your toxic past, that is a bad mix.

I asked you earlier what you value more, your business or your wife. You did not answer. 

At her age (entering or in early 40's) she is at the right time for self introspection. She is looking at her life and deciding that she is not happy, life is short, she is getting older and what once was acceptable is no longer acceptable. (Been there myself). If you do not fix this, once the kids are out of school, she will be done. I think she said that to you, right?

Expect her to give mixed signals. She does not want conflict while she waits for the rental. At some times she will forget her troubles and feel good and show it to you, then she will remember and be cold again. Expect that. 

The "One week on and one week off" is not going to work. If she wants to move out, let her. You are making this separation easier for her and thus more likely to happen. Make it harder, not to spite her but to make her realize what you BOTH will lose.


----------



## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

@blueinbr my ex's AP while sober fit that model. Some alcoholics wet or dry are drunks. OP you stopped drinking did you do it on your own or did you go to AA?


----------



## needsomead (Feb 23, 2016)

Thanks for that. Wise words!

I am trying to do all the right things. I have joined the gym, I listen to her etc

I would feel better if we could just not talk and go our own way but we cannot. She loves our kids and wants to be here for them, yet, wants to have the week on week off deal. I offered that she could stay in the other house permanently but she said no I need to see the kids.

She stayed at her parents last night as her father is ill. We spoke last night and all was fine again as if we did not have any disagreement. 

I left it at that. But then this morning she sends this email:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, that was a **** night's sleep. 3 hours 46 min according to firbit. Sore back.

I definitely won't be staying here tonight.. I have to take hughy to the hospital tomorrow. 

My battery is nearly flat. I'll try to charge it in the car. Talk later.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When she away, she will text me a funny picture or say something general.

What is she doing? If she really wanted to leave and be finished, why keep this up.

I think you are right in that she wants to keep the peace but I feel that she is also not really sure so she wants to know if I am still there just in case it does not work out for her.

She knows my feelings about infidelity. I have always said, if you have an affair, it is over. Period!

My gut feeling is that she has someone on the side line and she is just living a delusional reality. Keep me happy, live in other house, keep work going, see other man, if he is Mr Right then tell and if he is not, then say she was never unfaithful. Perfect!

I questioned her a couple of weeks ago and got world war three. I am an ass hole etc for not trusting her and I am doing the same thing and being nasty, I have not changed etc etc

If I confront her, she will fight it.

What do I do? I feel like I am on drip feed. She makes out that she is such a mature person. It's hard she says, but I have to keep control of my emotions for the kids and the business.


----------



## needsomead (Feb 23, 2016)

Thanks for that. Wise words!

I am trying to do all the right things. I have joined the gym, I listen to her etc

I would feel better if we could just not talk and go our own way but we cannot. She loves our kids and wants to be here for them, yet, wants to have the week on week off deal. I offered that she could stay in the other house permanently but she said no I need to see the kids.

She stayed at her parents last night as her father is ill. We spoke last night and all was fine again as if we did not have any disagreement. 

I left it at that. But then this morning she sends this email:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, that was a **** night's sleep. 3 hours 46 min according to firbit. Sore back.

I definitely won't be staying here tonight.. I have to take hughy to the hospital tomorrow. 

My battery is nearly flat. I'll try to charge it in the car. Talk later.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When she away, she will text me a funny picture or say something general.

What is she doing? If she really wanted to leave and be finished, why keep this up.

I think you are right in that she wants to keep the peace but I feel that she is also not really sure so she wants to know if I am still there just in case it does not work out for her.

She knows my feelings about infidelity. I have always said, if you have an affair, it is over. Period!

My gut feeling is that she has someone on the side line and she is just living a delusional reality. Keep me happy, live in other house, keep work going, see other man, if he is Mr Right then tell and if he is not, then say she was never unfaithful. Perfect!

I questioned her a couple of weeks ago and got world war three. I am an ass hole etc for not trusting her and I am doing the same thing and being nasty, I have not changed etc etc

If I confront her, she will fight it. Should I confront her and tell her that I know? Even if there is no proof?

What do I do? I feel like I am on drip feed. She makes out that she is such a mature person. It's hard she says, but I have to keep control of my emotions for the kids and the business.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

You snoop. Of course she's going to deny it and freak out at you. There's an evidence gathering thread somewhere let me see if I can find it for you


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Here you go

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...one-interested-evidence-gathering-thread.html

Start reading in Coping with Infidelity too. There is a LOT you need to learn here. A LOT unfortunately.


----------



## needsomead (Feb 23, 2016)

cool thanks


----------



## needsomead (Feb 23, 2016)

Now she just sent me text fro a coffee shop where she is with her mother. She also sent a picture of a teddy bear on a coffee mug. She Naw cute bear

What is this chick doing?


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Ok, it's simple. Your wife is having an affair. No, she doesn't have time!

Yes, she does! 

Ask her if can see her phone. Password protected? Ask for the pass code. No? You have your answer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

needsomead said:


> Now she just sent me text fro a coffee shop where she is with her mother. She also sent a picture of a teddy bear on a coffee mug. She Naw cute bear
> 
> What is this chick doing?


Feeding you breadcrumbs.

Ignore them


----------



## needsomead (Feb 23, 2016)

Further to the last, no I am not a dry drunk. 

She just sent me another text with a picture of a teddy bear next to a coffee cup. She says Naw, cute Police Bear. She would do this all the time. Takes the car for service, I am working so she sends sms. Pictures of a ****tail fruit drink etc. Telling me what she is doing.

I read into this that she is uncertain and wants to check what mood I am in. Or, she is delusional and thinks we are best friends, as she has said, and thinks we can switch off 20 years and go on like we were never married.

Maybe she has not fully understood what breaking up actually means.

Not sure


----------



## needsomead (Feb 23, 2016)

Awesome, thanks


----------



## needsomead (Feb 23, 2016)

she has her phone locked


----------



## needsomead (Feb 23, 2016)

I know it is true, but I have no proof. Do I confront her and cause a major scene, or do I let nature take its course and be the better man.


----------



## needsomead (Feb 23, 2016)

I would like to save our marriage. Do I confront her and risk the major explosion or do I do the 180 rule and see if she wakes up


----------



## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
It certainly sounds as though she has met someone new and needs the space and freedom to explore this newfound "Mr Possible". My advice would be to tell her you are through and that her behavior is that of a teenager not the mother of teenagers. She is acting like she is in high school and wants to date, which I would tell her is fine but not on your dime. Tell her you need to divorce so you too can find someone with whom to grow old.

Her explosion over your insinuation that she is cheating is possibly a guilt reaction. It seems as though she is doing as you said earlier and keeping you as a fall back plan in case her new man does not work out or will not leave his wife and family for her. Tell her it is a delicious cake but once eaten, it is gone.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

You asked her about an affair. She got very angry. Come on, she knows that an affair would be a possibility for someone wanting a separation. She DARVO'd you. She said that you are having an affair. Deny, Attack, Reverse the accusation. Accuse an innocent person of infidelity and they would be hurt and insulted. But they would understand the logic behind the charge. Most would deny it [less forcefully]. She protests too loud, methinks.

The little niceties [pictures] she is texting/showing on her phone is to take your suspicious mind off of her motives and activities. Aha, and who was she with right at that moment? 

Yes, they are breadcrumbs taking your mind elsewhere, maybe down the wrong path.

At this time all of us are being very presumptuous. And at this time, [my place in this thread] there are no good clues to any infidelity on her part. Are we jumping the gun. Dunno, Mr. NSA. Do your homework and due diligence. Follow the trail and dig deep and do the 180 in the meantime. VAR up the joint.


----------



## Borntohang (Sep 4, 2014)

The simplest thing to do, is check the phone records...If something is going on, it will be pretty evident!
I'm still on the fence about cheating. May just be a "Walk away wife". But my Spidey senses are up!


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Do NOT confront!
Wait and collect evidence. I personally would snatch her phone while she's on it, reset the password so that only you can get in it, and don't give it back until you've do e a deleted text search and downloaded everything in the phone. Research how to do this before the snatch.

Everything you need to know is on that phone. 

Don't date let her know you suspect t until you're ready to take action. 

Never confront until irrefutable evidence is backed up I. Your possession. Then and only then, have a plan to completely expose her to every person she cares about at the press of a button.

99% chane of at least an emotional affair.
Why?

Sudden desire to separate, phone locked, marriage rewrite, guilt projection on you.

Pics are to deflect attention away from who she's really with.

Either way, your marriage is almost surely over and you need to plan to divorce and settle things. That sucks to tell someone, but it's the truth. I'm very sorry.

But if you put in place a plan to move forward, you can be happier than ever. Just expect it to take a while. Letting her plan b you and leave you in limbo while she plans her exit strategy will take even longer for you to heal and get happy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lilac23 (Jul 9, 2015)

Relationship Teacher said:


> The worst thing you can do right now is get defensive and try to logic and reason with her. Right now, you are not the same person to her that you are. You are wearing a mask, and there is a lack of intimacy. When contempt enters the game, there is never anything you can do to get in high regard with someone, just as a drug addict needs that drug just to feel "normal".
> 
> 1. Validate her reasons for wanting separation. This is acceptance, not promotion. You are just letting her know that she was heard and is respected. At the same time,
> 2. Send periodic invitations to her. These are invitations, not expectations. If she declines, then let it be. If she accepts, let her join you at her pace and comfort level.
> ...


I agree with most of this except 1 and 5. If you validate all of her reasons, she has no reason to look at herself and what she has done to contribute to the issues. It makes her think she's Mrs. Right and you are Mr. Wrong. Also the developing of 'where you want to be in the relationship' doesn't work when you are separated. You can only work on yourself right now, regardless of what she is doing. A helplessly in love man would probably appear to be desperate to a wife that wants a separation. 'Helpless' is a bad term for someone in your position, even if it comes from a place of love. You don't need to beg her to stay, perhaps you do need to work on yourself but you need to do that whether she stays or not. Following her around like a puppy dog is not what will save your marriage.


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Btw, the more she freaks when you take her phone, the more intent I'd be about keeping it.

Q: Does she guard her phone?
Any sudden change in frequency of sex, more or less, and any new positions she wants to try?
Distant from you suddenly?
Shaving in private places all of a sudden? 
Working out/losing weight?

She is acting strange. Nobody wants to separate and act all friendly. She is hiding something, and it's obvious to people who have been through this what it is.

It's your job to find out.

Either way, you really should get a lawyer and file in other to protect yourself. If you want to reconcile, the process can stop at any time.

You are letting her hold all the cards. And a woman will literally get drunk on the power she has over her husband during this stuff. Under no circumstances should you grovel or beg. Show strength, even when you have none.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You have no access to your phone bill? You are on separate plans?


Are you still sleeping in the same bed? How has your sex life changed in the last two years?


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Why does she want to separate and not divorce?


----------



## needsomead (Feb 23, 2016)

You are all so right.

I probably do not need to confront her yet. Keep it up my sleeve.

Can anyone hack a mobile phone or get past the finger print key?

She says that she needs to heal. Bull**** I know.

I just have a strong gut feeling that who ever she is seeing, albeit on line, whatever, is showing her attention and she is loving it.

My feeling is that this will only go for so long and then as time goes by she just might realise what she has lost.


----------



## needsomead (Feb 23, 2016)

Because we have to run a business together and have the kids to look after. She said that she could not wait another 3 years when the youngest finishes school. She said that when he finishes and we have no commitment, then she would get a divorce.

Is it possible to reverse the way she thinks?


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

needsomead said:


> You are all so right.
> 
> I probably do not need to confront her yet. Keep it up my sleeve.
> 
> ...


Very unlikely she'll ever realize what she lost--- until you've moved on. Then you won't care.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

needsomead said:


> Because we have to run a business together and have the kids to look after. She said that she could not wait another 3 years when the youngest finishes school. She said that when he finishes and we have no commitment, then she would get a divorce.
> 
> Is it possible to reverse the way she thinks?


Yes, file for divorce, expose her affair, and ACT like you don't give a damn.

But it takes I human strength, so you likely won't do this. It's the only thing that might shock her out of fantasy land. The rush to separate is the most obvious affair sign.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Oh, and if you cut her finger off, you can hack her phone with it. That's a joke....😉
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

How can your wife work with you 5 days a week on the business but not sleep at your house? What will be different during the daytime that is different from nighttime?

Why did you agree to the separate shared rental home? Don't say because of the kids. If your wife wants to move out, let her move out. The easier you make it for her to leave the marriage the quicker she will. You just made it very easy for her to have an affair. 

With the separate house, you will essentially be divorced except that you do not have her signature on the divorce papers. To her that will mean having another man at the rental house would not be cheating, because, well, you are divorced in all put the signature. And she actually will be right. 

When it is your week to be in the rental house, make sure to change the sheets on the bed or you will be sleeping on some other guy's ***. I am not saying this to disrespect you but instead to shock you into realizing what you are doing.


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

needsomead said:


> I know it is true, but I have no proof. Do I confront her and cause a major scene, or do I let nature take its course and be the better man.


How is letting your wife f**k another guy make you the better man? Do you really believe that?

I hope this really is a case of your wife being smothered - you work together at home and are together ALL THE TIME - rather than an affair, but you know her best and you "know it is true".


----------



## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

needsomead said:


> You are all so right.
> 
> I probably do not need to confront her yet. Keep it up my sleeve.
> 
> ...


Does she sinc her phone? If she does you can recover from the PC. The quick fast method is go online and see if there are a lot of calls/texts to a specific number. 30 minutes tops


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Sorry for too many posts in a row but had to share this. In another long thread about a guy and his cheating wife, they are setting up a "nesting apartment" just like OP is doing. It is called a "bird's nest". Below is excerpt from Psychology Today online: Read the very last line in this post. 

******

A “bird's nest” co-parenting arrangement is one that is uniquely child-centered. Rather than the children having to adapt to the parents’ needs and living in two separate dwellings, they remain in the family home and the parents take turns moving in and out, like birds alighting and departing the “nest.” During the time parents are not at home with the kids, they live in a separate dwelling, which can either be on their own or rotated with the other parent. It is a novel yet sensible arrangement, as children experience much less disruption in their lives and routines than having to shuttle and adapt to completely new living arrangements. It can be either a semi-permanent or temporary arrangement, to allow children a smoother transition to life as a divorced family.

Clearly, bird nesting will work for some but not all parents. A bird's nest arrangement will only work if parents live in close proximity, or are able to be in the family home when it is their turn for parenting the kids. It works best when parents are co-parenting, as opposed to one parent being a full-time caregiver with the other a “visiting” parent. The expense involved is another factor, depending on whether parents arrange for one or two residences away from the family home. If the former, bird-nesting need not be any more expensive than parents living in two separate households. It may even be less expensive than maintaining two homes for the children, as the external residence may be much more modest if the children are not residing there; a one-bedroom apartment or studio is likely to provide more than enough space. In addition, parents do not have to purchase two sets of toys and clothing for the children as they would if children are rotating between two households. If parents opt to maintain two different residences apart from the family home, they have to factor in the additional expense; the cost of maintaining three residences will be prohibitive for many. *Finally, bird nesting while sharing one residence in addition to the family home is extremely challenging when new partners appear on the scene.*


----------



## Redactus (Nov 22, 2015)

In my short 52 years on this planet, one thing I have learned is true. Unless a man has problems with substance abuse, physical abuse or is cheating, a woman will never leave the father of her children or the security of a marriage unless she is already banging someone else. I have never witnessed nor heard of any exception to this axiom....yet. The best thing to do is to move on with your life and do what is best for you and your children. Keeping a disfunctional marriage will cause more damage to the kids than a divorce.


----------



## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

Lilac23 said:


> I agree with most of this except 1 and 5. If you validate all of her reasons, she has no reason to look at herself and what she has done to contribute to the issues. It makes her think she's Mrs. Right and you are Mr. Wrong. Also the developing of 'where you want to be in the relationship' doesn't work when you are separated. You can only work on yourself right now, regardless of what she is doing. A helplessly in love man would probably appear to be desperate to a wife that wants a separation. 'Helpless' is a bad term for someone in your position, even if it comes from a place of love. You don't need to beg her to stay, perhaps you do need to work on yourself but you need to do that whether she stays or not. Following her around like a puppy dog is not what will save your marriage.


Validating is just a communication technique. It isn't agreeing or disagreeing; it is letting the other person know they are understood.

You're confusing helpless with hopeless. My post gave no guidance to be a puppy dog, whatsoever.


----------



## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

needsomead said:


> You are all so right.
> 
> I probably do not need to confront her yet. Keep it up my sleeve.


It is going to show up in the way you interact with her.

If you suspect something, leave it at that, but let her know. You are in this for romance. Romantic partners don't investigate or spy on the others. If all that matters is to expose a possible affair, then by all means, but if your goal is reconciliation, it is a bad idea for the long term relationship.

Bring it to her attention.

Ask her to stop.

Give her an indication of where you want the relationship to be.




> I just have a strong gut feeling that who ever she is seeing, albeit on line, whatever, is showing her attention and she is loving it.
> 
> My feeling is that this will only go for so long and then as time goes by she just might realise what she has lost.


You can't compete with a new man. No one can compete with infatuation. It is for this reason that she has to come to this conclusion on her own. Investigating her, guilting her, and giving ultimatums only proves to her why this other guy is "so much better".



> Is it possible to reverse the way she thinks?


Act like a victor, not a victim. Victims put on a Batman costume, hide in the shadows, and monitor their partner 24/7. If this is what one has to do to keep the marriage intact, then I have to ask that person whether they are after love or just afraid of losing or being alone.

If you want this to go well, with or without her, then be the victor.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Relationship Teacher said:


> It is going to show up in the way you interact with her.
> 
> If you suspect something, leave it at that, but let her know. BAD BAD idea! Telling someone they're suspected of cheating when there's no evidence will drive them underground, and they'll be way harder to catchYou are in this for romance. Romantic partners don't investigate or spy on the others. They damn well do if one of them is cheating. If all that matters is to expose a possible affair, then by all means, but if your goal is reconciliation, it is a bad idea for the long term relationship.Again, WRONG. The ONLY way to eventually reconcile is to blow up the affair. Once he has evidence he can do so, and exposure is a big part of the process.
> 
> ...


Do you have any experience with what really works to get a couple back together after one cheats? Because this advice is WAY off base.

This is a perfect example of why couples healing from cheating need to be VERY careful who their counselor is.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

OP, did you have a look at the evidence gathering thread I posted for you? Please head over to CWI - there are a lot of people over there who know what they're talking about and will help you with the process of finding out and gathering the evidence you need.


----------



## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

Hope1964 said:


> Do you have any experience with what really works to get a couple back together after one cheats?


Yes.



> BAD BAD idea! Telling someone they're suspected of cheating when there's no evidence will drive them underground, and they'll be way harder to catch


I thought we were talking about reconciliation...



> They damn well do if one of them is cheating [in regards to whether one should spy or not]


I thought we were talking about reconciliation...



> Again, WRONG. The ONLY way to eventually reconcile is to blow up the affair. Once he has evidence he can do so, and exposure is a big part of the process.


I am far too aware of this method.

There are many reasons why it doesn't work. Even if the couple does decide to stay together, the long-term relationship is degraded.



> Good grief. Telling her that he won't put up with what she's doing shows the OTHER guy is better?? Bull. If she IS cheating, he needs to know. Hence the investigation. If she is cheating she darn well SHOULD feel guilty!


This isn't about giving popular advice. Like it or not, a cheater will be pushed *towards* the OM or OW. 

You are advising he take the role of the punisher, while the (suspected) OM is allowing her to do as she pleases. The OM will look like a better alternative *in her eyes*.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Before he does ANYTHING else he needs to find out if she is cheating. Nothing else matters right now.

If she is, the only way to save the relationship is to end it. 

If you don't believe me read my own story and do a bunch of reading over in CWI. Reconciliation does NOT mean staying together. It's way more than that, and there's no way to have true R if he rugsweeps (or as you call it, forgive and forget) BS's, especially men, who act like you're telling this guy to act end up alone.


----------



## Lilac23 (Jul 9, 2015)

Relationship Teacher said:


> Validating is just a communication technique. It isn't agreeing or disagreeing; it is letting the other person know they are understood.
> 
> You're confusing helpless with hopeless. My post gave no guidance to be a puppy dog, whatsoever.



Validation is not a communication technique, it is letting someone know that you feel their actions were appropriate and warranted. Validating something you don't agree with, such as rewriting of marital history or someone taking a victim stance, doesn't help anyone.


----------



## foolscotton3 (Nov 13, 2014)

Sounds like you two, not just you, both of you need to do things apart.

Get hobbies, don't spend evey waking moment together.

I think once you two start spending time apart you will begin to appreciate the time you do spend together.

She might want you back in the house right after you move out, don't bite the bate and stick to the plan.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Relationship Teacher said:


> Victims put on a Batman costume, hide in the shadows, and monitor their partner 24/7. If this is what one has to do to keep the marriage intact, then I have to ask that person whether they are after love or just afraid of losing or being alone.


Insightful, RT.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Lilac23 said:


> Validation is not a communication technique, it is letting someone know that you feel their actions were appropriate and warranted. Validating something you don't agree with, such as rewriting of marital history or someone taking a victim stance, doesn't help anyone.


_"Validation is one way that we communicate acceptance of ourselves and others.* Validation doesn't mean agreeing or approving. *When your best friend or a family member makes a decision that you really don't think is wise, validation is a way of supporting them and strengthening the relationship while maintaining a different opinion. Validation is a way of communicating that the relationship is important and solid even when you disagree on issues."_

--_Psychology Today_

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...tanding-validation-way-communicate-acceptance


----------



## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

Lilac23 said:


> Validation is not a communication technique, it is letting someone know that you feel their actions were appropriate and warranted. Validating something you don't agree with, such as rewriting of marital history or someone taking a victim stance, doesn't help anyone.


You should do research before you say something like that.

8 Communication Skills Essential for Relationships ? Relationship Teacher ? Better Relationships

Info per John Gottman, probably the most famous marital researcher.


----------



## Lilac23 (Jul 9, 2015)

jld said:


> _"Validation is one way that we communicate acceptance of ourselves and others.* Validation doesn't mean agreeing or approving. *When your best friend or a family member makes a decision that you really don't think is wise, validation is a way of supporting them and strengthening the relationship while maintaining a different opinion."_
> 
> --_Psychology Today_
> 
> https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...tanding-validation-way-communicate-acceptance


Supporting a decision or opinion you don't agree with in this case, is not healthy for the relationship. Should he 'support' the wife's assertions of everything he did wrong and the banging of the new man?


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Lilac23 said:


> Supporting a decision or opinion you don't agree with in this case, is not healthy for the relationship. Should he 'support' the wife's assertions of everything he did wrong and the banging of the new man?


Supporting them in this case just means treating them with respect, not agreeing with them. He can try to see through his wife's eyes, even while not agreeing with her. He can prod her to reconsider her thought patterns through respectfully but gently questioning them.


----------



## Lilac23 (Jul 9, 2015)

Relationship Teacher said:


> You should do research before you say something like that.
> 
> 8 Communication Skills Essential for Relationships ? Relationship Teacher ? Better Relationships
> 
> Info per John Gottman, probably the most famous marital researcher.


Shocks me to the core that was a link to your blog (that was sarcastic)! You know Gottman was divorced twice, right? 

He uses Validating to describe a type of couple 'Validating Couples

Couples who are validators, fight more politely. They are calmer during conflicts, and behave like collaborators as they work through their problems. These couples often compromise, and seek to work out their problems steadily for mutually satisfying results. The mutual respect that they have for each other, limits the amount and level of their arguments.

The emphasis is on communication and compromise, so even if they have heated discussion, they validate each other. They do this by expressing empathy for, and understanding each other’s point of view. Very evident, is their display of care, calm, and self-control even when they discussing hot topics.

Validating couples try to persuade their partners and find a common ground in the end. During conflict, they let each other know they value their opinions, and see their emotions as legitimate. In disagreement, validating couples, let their partners know they still consider their feelings, even though they don’t necessarily agree with their position."

You can understand someone's point of view without accepting it or supporting it. Key difference. He is not in a 'validating relationship' with someone who is cheating on him and trying to run him out the door. 

"She said, I am suffocated, I need to be my own person, I want to live my life the way I want it without you telling what to do. She also said, now that we have money, you can never hold me to ransom.

I know I was grumpy at times and we had a very turbulent start to our relationship as we were both drinking, we also had many rocky times throughout the 20 years, but for the most part, we have had wonderful times yet she recalls every nasty thing that I said and have done from years ago. 

I explained to her that I was sleeping at the wheel and needed a big kick. She says it does not matter as she has heard it before and does not trust me.

She makes me feel like I was some incredible drunken abusive husband that comes home and bashes her. This is simply not true. She says that I was a passive abusive and maybe it might be true. I am not sure. 

All I know is that I would stand up for my rights when she would blame me things that I did not do.

Example:

Many years ago, we all built a green house one day with her parents. Team effort! One panel was upside down. My wife said, " You put it in upside down" her father stepped in and said " we, we put it upside down" 

My god, what a rant! So sorry!"

He should accept that this is her opinion of him and provide empathy for her feeling this way? Is this your advice? Accept the idea she is the victim and put himself in her shoes to feel her pain? Why should he respect that opinion? 



Relationship Teacher said:


> 1. Validate her reasons for wanting separation. This is acceptance, not promotion. You are just letting her know that she was heard and is respected. At the same time.


One of the four options we have in any problem situation is acceptance. Validation is one way that we communicate acceptance of ourselves and others. @https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/pieces-mind/201204/understanding-validation-way-communicate-acceptance

He should accept her opinion of him as a crap husband? Validation 'communicates acceptance of ourselves and others'. Why should he accept this opinion of being an abusive husband when it is not true? Accepting promotes validation to her of her wrong opinion, you can split hairs all you want but all this is doing is reinforcing to her that she is all right and he is all wrong. Which is never the case in any marriage.


----------



## Lilac23 (Jul 9, 2015)

jld said:


> Supporting them in this case just means treating them with respect, not agreeing with them. He can try to see through his wife's eyes, even while not agreeing with her. He can prod her to reconsider her thought patterns through respectfully but gently questioning them.


I would like an example for the class.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Lilac23 said:


> I would like an example for the class.


Active listening is a good way to validate a person. Asking them what they see their actions leading to can also stimulate thought.

OP feels she is cheating. He said if she is, he will leave her. To me, his feeling alone is reason enough to leave, if leaving is indeed his conviction.

I would instead recommend committing to the marriage and reconnecting emotionally through genuinely empathizing with her feelings.


----------



## Lilac23 (Jul 9, 2015)

jld said:


> Active listening is a good way to validate a person. Asking them what they see their actions leading to can also stimulate thought.
> 
> OP feels she is cheating, and he said if she is, he will leave her. To me, his feeling alone is reason enough to leave, if leaving is his conviction.
> 
> I would instead recommend committing to the marriage and reconnecting emotionally through genuinely empathizing with her feelings.


How can you recommit when one partner wants out? I am all for OP looking at himself to see how he can improve but not at the risk of accepting a false opinion that she is using to justify her exit from the marriage.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Lilac23 said:


> How can you recommit when one partner wants out? I am all for OP looking at himself to see how he can improve but not at the risk of accepting a false opinion that she is using to justify her exit from the marriage.


How can he control what she tells herself? And it would be even more foolish to seek validation from her.

OP seems powerful to her. He could have used that power to validate her feelings and try to be more sensitive to them. 

He could try to reverse that now. He could start respecting her, start really listening to her underlying feelings. 

Or he could just divorce and try to do better with a second companion.


----------



## Lilac23 (Jul 9, 2015)

jld said:


> How can he control what she tells herself? And it would be even more foolish to seek validation from her.
> 
> OP seems powerful to her. He could have used that power to validate her feelings and try to be more sensitive to them.
> 
> ...


I just caught a glimpse of his latest thread and have concluded he is unreachable and I wont be commenting anymore on this thread. But I can assure you he does not seem powerful to her!


----------



## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

Lilac23 said:


> He should accept her opinion of him as a crap husband? Validation 'communicates acceptance of ourselves and others'. Why should he accept this opinion of being an abusive husband when it is not true? Accepting promotes validation to her of her wrong opinion, you can split hairs all you want but all this is doing is reinforcing to her that she is all right and he is all wrong. Which is never the case in any marriage.


I hear you. I read your entire post. Your voice has been validated.

Do you feel promoted?


----------

